# Calling all electic drive boats



## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Recreational sailboats that are propelled by electric motors make up only small fraction of the boats currently on the water. Their advantages and disadvantages are well known by those who have been following their progress. Since Hunter released the 27E they have been introduced to many more sailors that frequent the boat shows.

I would love to hear from the SailNet members who have taken the plunge and joined the minority and are sailing an auxiliary electric powered sailboat.
Please share what you have personally experienced.

I am interested in:
Boat, make, model, year
Info on the electric motor, controller, batteries, charging etc.
Costs of conversion
Watts used at various speeds
Range
Prop used and ones you had to discard and how much difference it made.
Recharging capability and time required.

Benefits
Drawbacks

And of course anything else you would like to share.

Hopefully there are a few sailors with personal experience otherwise this will be a lonely thread. Even if you just have an elect outboard on the dinghy please tell us about it.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

There is a Tartan 30 (If I recall) that sails out of the West River, Chesapeake Bay that has 100% electric drive. I will try to find his write up, I think it was in the monthly CBTSC newsletter? He was loving it! But he generally day sails with the occasional overnight. 

I for one am very interested in a hybrid drive using a diesel generator and a electric drive with a decent sized battery bank to replace our tired W50.


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## Windborn (Aug 29, 2004)

I too have been considering a hybrid generator / electric system to replace a tired MD2B. It might not save much weight over an all battery set up, but it would certainly provide better range. Such a propulsion system should allow us to run on batteries for short periods (in and out of the harbor or for a little help grabbing a shy mooring) and to use the generator for longer runs and recharging.

Still, I do wonder how robust such a system might be and how well it would perform if things got a little bit too interesting over a couple of days on a long passage. 

I'm looking foward to seeing how the "bleeding edge" folks are doing with this technology.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I don't think electric drive systems have been around long enough to get a good idea of their durability long term and ultimate reliability. After all, even after 10 years you are still at a fraction of the life of a diesel.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

There is Quite of bit of know how required In electric motors for boats.

We've produced more than 600 electrically driven boats since the mid 1990's.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

WDSchock said:


> There is Quite of bit of know how required In electric motors for boats.
> 
> We've produced more than 600 electrically driven boats since the mid 1990's.


You might want to mention that the vast majority (if not all) of those 600+ boats were Harbor 20s, an 1800# day-sailor. That's not a knock against the H-20, it's a nice little boat, and a small electric drive suits it well. However, it's not quite the same as outfitting a larger boat with an electric drive. For example, your Harbor 25 comes with a little Yanmar, rather than an electric drive.


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## nickmerc (Nov 2, 2008)

mitiempo said:


> I don't think electric drive systems have been around long enough to get a good idea of their durability long term and ultimate reliability. After all, even after 10 years you are still at a fraction of the life of a diesel.


Electric drives are not rocket science. They are used all over industry in horrible conditions that are way worse than the marine environment and run for years. Elco was building electric boats over 100 years ago. Before nuclear submarines the navy was using diesel gensets to charge batteries for submarine electric motors. I believe most of us have heard of Electric Boat.

Currently, your limiting factor is power storage. Once a cost effective solution is available electrically propelled boats will be commonplace.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Windborn said:


> I too have been considering a hybrid generator / electric system to replace a tired MD2B. It might not save much weight over an all battery set up, but it would certainly provide better range. Such a propulsion system should allow us to run on batteries for short periods (in and out of the harbor or for a little help grabbing a shy mooring) and to use the generator for longer runs and recharging.
> 
> Still, I do wonder how robust such a system might be and how well it would perform if things got a little bit too interesting over a couple of days on a long passage.
> 
> I'm looking foward to seeing how the "bleeding edge" folks are doing with this technology.


From what I've seen (mostly but not entirely a hybrid drive river launch), a hybrid generator/electric motor system makes a lot of sense. Among the advantages are:
1. Lots and lots of AC power whenever the 'engine' is running.
2. The generator can go wherever you want to put it.
3. You don't need a huge battery bank - just whatever seems reasonable for the usage you need. If the batteries get low, the generator kicks in.

...but the biggest advantage is: you have limited battery power on tap to get you out of trouble right now! if for some reason the diesel doesn't start...

Robust isn't a problem, it's just a shame that the generator, batteries, motor and electronics all take up more space than an auxilliary alone... so, let's see what's out there and what people think of electric drive in real life.


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## anchorsaweigh (Aug 19, 2000)

Google a Nonsuch called Bianka. The owner converted his 30 Classic to electric. He has a blog as well as a picture gallery on PBase.

Cheers,

Bob


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## jimrafford (Jan 7, 2011)

A couple years back when I was booking a bvi charter I saw the Catamaran Co had a Lagoon 40 that was had a hybrid system w/ Salomon electric drives. Unfortunatly it was booked when we were going. Would have liked to try it.
Jim


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

IMHP once you have to keep a diesel in running condition whats the point as keeping one running seems to be the issue with the electric converts


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Slow,


Correct, but the system does take quite a bit of know how to get right. The 300+ Harbor 20s have provided us with quite a bit of kniwledge on the entire system and reliability. We are working on a electric option for the Harbor 25.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Hybrid electric makes a lot of sense for a cat that would have 2 diesels otherwise.


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## Mark F (Mar 7, 2006)

Hi David,

To quickly respond to your questions;

Boat, make, model, year;
Ericson 27, 1976

Info on the electric motor, controller, batteries, charging;.
SolidNav Explorer (Mars 4kw permanent magnet, brushless, Sevcon controller. Pro Charging System -quad, Kipoint 48 volt - 20 amp charger, four group 27 agm plus four group 31 agm, PakTrakr battery montor, Turnigy Watt Meter)

Costs of conversion;
$6000

Watts used at various speeds;
(I have amp readings at 48-51 volts)
20 amps - 4 knots
90 amps - 5.7 knots

Range;
I have motored for 7 hrs at 4 knots and used one battery bank so I know I can do a least 56 miles.

Prop used and ones you had to discard and how much difference it made;
Stared with the A4 prop fixed two blade 11x10 (?) switched to fixed three blade 12x10 and gained a knot of boat speed at 20 amps.

Recharging capability and time required;
Plug in at the slip, depends on amount of charging required.

Benefits;
Reliability,instant thrust, no fumes, no exhaust, quiet motoring, motor sailing (qualifier see below)

Drawbacks;
I tend to be a purist when it come to sailing, I like to sail not motor. Than said I find myself motorsailing much more with the EP setup. It's always ready to power up with the push of a lever. With very little power added in light winds I can increase speed and keep the boat moving. In stronger winds and seas the addition of power reduces weather helm and hobby horsing. The same effect with ICE but without the noise and smell.


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## wsteeves (Dec 5, 2008)

I have the tartan 30 that sails out of the west river in the Chesapeake mentioned in a post above. Converted 3 or 4 years ago. Did swap the prop to take advantage of more thrust at lower rpms. Otherwise performs comparably to the old A4 that it replaced. New prop is a 12x12 where old was 11x7. 

The issue with converting is not the motorwhich are quite reliable and for 600 bucks or so you could even carry a spare if so inclined. The issue is you really need to become very familiar with your batteries. Improper or insufficient charging, poor maintenance, etc will shorten life spans and cycle specs. Without this know-how you might develop range anxiety - a phenomenomwith electric vehicles. Batteries don't discharge and can be difficult to monitor as to current state of charge even using electronic monitoring tools. Each of the various chemistries also have their own set of nuances. A lot of people claim batteries to be bad when they simply did not cycle it properly killing it in very short order. 

The rest of the system is incredibly simple. There is very little to fail and no oil, no smell, some noise but almost a pleasant whooshing sound. No winterization so can be sailed all winter. Note the "Drawbacks" from Mark F above. Sounds more like advantages to me. 


For longer overnights where the wind might die off and crew is on a time schedulei have a power supply on a switch 48vdc @2000wattstied in that is powered by a Honda2000i generator at the mast which can push me up to 4 knots for about 9 additional hours on a gallon of fuel. 

Do not recommend building from scratch or from a kluge of off the shelf components. Relationship between motor, controller and throttle quandrant are critical and electrical design of the controller is critical for safety. Don't skimp in battery wires as they will carry some current so go thicker than thinner. ABYC is currently looking into standards for electric propulsion where I've been interviewed a few times this year alone. 

This edit box doesn't work so good on a tablet so I'll quit here.


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## intrepidseas (Jul 27, 2011)

It's great to see a thread about electric boating on here! I actually just joined SailNet just to jump in on this thread, after another electric boating friend told me about it. Anyway, my name is Greg, I have an old Bristol 32 sloop and a few years ago I traded the Yanmar 3GM30 diesel for an Asmo Marine Thoosa 9000 electric propulsion system. I have to say honestly, it was the best thing I ever did! Seriously, "going electric" fundamentally changes how you think about your boat and sailing, and in my opinion all in good ways. The system is clean and quiet, starts right away and gives reliable high torque power, which at low RPMs is great for precision docking. At full throttle, my system can push my 5 ton boat up to hull speed but of course doing so drains the batteries so we usually only push along as fast as we really need to go. The system is great for getting in and out of the marina and for getting through the occasional lull in the wind out on the water. Because of the limitations of present battery technology, the biggest drawback of course is range. I can motor maybe about 10 miles at medium throttle (4 kts?) but have never really pushed it, since I don't want to drain the batteries all the way... But here's the crazy part, the biggest disadvantage (limited range) is actually, in my humble opinion, actually a huge advantage! Because, like I said before, going electric fundamentally changes how you think about sailing. It is, afterall a "sailboat" right? I have actually used my boat a lot more and feel that I am much more confident now as a sailor because I HAVE TO sail! I know that my auxiliary propulsion system is just that- "auxiliary" as it was always defined, and within it's limitations is more reliable than a combustion engine. You have to admit, the one boat system that keeps sailors in port the most is the engine, right? There's so much that can go wrong with a combustion engine on a boat, it seems to me to be a false sense of security. My old Yanmar had so many issues that I'm sure you're all familiar with. It was great for allowing me to motor long distances and then some weird problem would come up and leave me stranded because I wasn't confident enough of a sailor to actually "sail" back! Electric propulsion systems are so much simpler and when things do go wrong, they are easier to fix onboard. The motor itself weighs only about 30 lbs so if I had to do maintenance on it, I could pull it out by hand and fix it myself pretty easily. Also another thing, with an electric system your boat's system is all electric now. If you're not using your batteries for propulsion, you haave this huge battery bank that you can use to power anything else you want on the boat (inverter, AC, microwave, etc.). As for charging the batteries, that can be accomplished with a battery charger and shore power, and/or a combination of solar panels, wind generator or even a small genset (which in my opinion sort of defeats the purpose). However, one of the other really cool things about electric propulsion on a sailboat is that an electric motor is also by design, a generator and the propeller can act as a turbine while you're sailing! There's still some R&D issues with this and it doesn't always work great on every boat, and there's also the issue of excess drag, but still- the idea of recovering power and regenerating electricity while you're sailing- potentially regenerating while you're sailing, all your power that you used to get in and out of the marina, I think is one of the most awesome things about electric propulsion on a boat.

Anyway, thanks for reading this long post. There are actually a lot of people starting to get excited about electric boats (again) now. It's not a new idea, boats were actually electric powered before combustion engines took over, but now it looks like the future of boating is going retro! If you're interested in learning more and joining a community of other electric boaters, the two main places where the community is organizing is: ElectricSeas and the Electric Boat group on Yahoo Groups. Electric Seas is a new non-profit organization that was formed to promote and educate people about electric boating and provides a forum, user groups for different systems, a commercial directory of companies and of course a growing community of electric boaters who can use their page on Electric Seas as free blog to document their experiences and connect with others in the community. Please check us out!

Thanks,
-Greg Martin

s/v Intrepid
www.Intrepid-seas.com
Electric Seas - A Resource For The Electric Boating Community


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## Cal28 (Jul 6, 2009)

David

This is something I have been interested in as well ... and have watched over the past two years

There is a very active yahoo group electric boats that I am a member of devoted to this ... over 4000 members ... with a wealth of information and write-ups ...


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## Cal28 (Jul 6, 2009)

intrepidseas said:


> If you're interested in learning more and joining a community of other electric boaters, the two main places where the community is organizing is: ElectricSeas and the Electric Boat group on Yahoo Groups. [/url]


Greg

Sorry ... I didn't see your excellent post here ... I just got up ... coffee's still brewing ...

John


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## mgunning (Dec 17, 2010)

There is a growing acceptance of electric propulsion, five electric motor vendors at the Oakland Strictly Sailing show this year. By the way the last time I checked just about every diesel or gas motor has an electric starter that is likely the most dependable component of the system. 
I represent one of those system manufactures who produce electric propulsion drives. Most are turn key and often customer installed. Additionally I estimate that there are over 600 electric sailboats in the cruiser size, 27 and above, with most home engineered and home built.
Currently I sail a Newport 30MKll four days a week since the conversion in March. Did "The Border Run" - 75 miles Newport to San Diego - finishing our class 5 out of 10 in a boat loaded with batteries and regenerated power most of the race.
What our clients tell us they enjoy the most: not living with a diesel, ability to motor sail with the experience being sailing, reduced maintenance costs, more and instant power at slow speeds. There are options for all types of sailors.
There is another website that you might find interesting:
Electric Seas - A Resource For The Electric Boating Community
Regards, Mike


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## Coincidence (Apr 22, 2011)

*Victoria 26 - Saildrive Electric conversion*

This last month I finished converting an OMC Zephyr saildrive to electric. The boat is a 1982 Victoria 26 Elegante (Victoria Yachts, DeBary FL) named Coincidence. There were only a handful of these made so information is hard to come by.

I go into more detail of the actual installation on a blog at
Coincidence - Victoria 26.

Here are system specs:
Electric Yacht 100ibl system 
(consists of 5kW Mars brushless motor, modified Sevcon controller)
48v 100Ah AGM battery bank (4 batteries)
Sillette MK2 outdrive (reduction drive 2:1)
14" 3-blade fixed prop, 11" pitch
Quick Charge AC charger 48V / 25A (runs off shore power in slip)

The following is more background on how the project evolved and the research that went into it:

In Spring of 2010 I had the engine removed and all gaskets/seals replaced (well, not ALL, but those that tend to go bad and are accessible when the power head is removed). We put it in the water and the same problem persisted. The guy working on it had a spare outdrive which we tried, and replaced seals again. Same problem. He had no more ideas on it, so began my repower research.

Research had actually started In Winter of 2010, thinking that a repower was imminent for this boat. I even talked to an electric motor company (Electric Yacht) at a boat show, but they only dealt with shaft configurations. I was discouraged that there were few options for a saildrive configuration. So when I really started to consider my options, I was leaning toward diesel. The saildrive configuration was really much more of a limiting factor than I had anticipated. There are only a handful of options/manufacturers.

It was difficult getting boatyards to return my calls. A local boatyard owner told me it could be that there are a lot of "daydreamer" calls that can waste a lot of time. The economy has put a crunch on staff too.

I started by looking for ballpark estimates. One independent boatbuilder in Milwaukee was a little frustrated by the request, he cut me off when I started to describe the boat. So I said "Look, I'm trying to give you information on the boat so that you can give me an estimate. I'm not going to drive the boat down to you just so you can tell me it's going to be 30,000 to install an engine!" Part of the difficulty was due to the fact that there is simply no information on the Victoria 26. Nothing. I've told more than a few people that I am their best resource for information on the boat, which is a sad state of affairs.

The beginning of the process was frustrating. I finally found a builder in Milwaukee willing to give me an estimate on a Yanmar 15hp diesel, only to discover a few months later that when they finally got to really looking into it that the engine would not fit--a concern I brought to the table in my first conversation with them.

I had also talked to a boatyard in Chicago, they returned my call(s) almost two months after an initial conversation. They seemed interested and were also open to spec'ing an electric motor. They had only performed one other electric repower, but I knew they would do a good job. Again, getting a ballpark estimate was like pulling teeth. A few more unreturned phone calls and I gave up on them. I did contact a UK company they turned me on to that made saildrives but didn't provide the motor or the motor controller. I exchanged a few email messages with the UK company and they didn't seem too interested to help. They recommended sourcing the motor and controller from a US manufacturer, but I had no idea what I was spec'ing.

Diesels were ruled out. I began to consider hanging an outboard off the back. Then I stumbled upon the Saildrive 330, which is a newer version of the Saildrive 280, a setup that had been talked about in web forums (e.g. SailNet) quite a bit 4 to 6 years ago. This really seemed to be a good solution, although I wasn't crazy about another gas engine. After having the OEM engine removed, I made a cardboard mock up of the engine and outdrive to be sure it would fit. The engine compartment of the 26, while accessible, is small. I soon realized that the outdrive would project too far and past the keel, and I didn't have enough room in the engine compartment to raise it vertically.

Back to the outboard option. But I thought I would look a little more into the electric option. I did another web search and clicked on a Electric Yacht link, but it took me to the Canadian branch rather than the US company I had spoken with at the boat show months before. On their homepage they had a "saildrive" link which simply said they offered a turnkey system. I immediately called the US based company and inquired about the availability of a saildrive. They just started offering it and it turned out to be the same outdrive the Chicago boatyard had recommended.

I joined a few electric boating forums, and spoke with 3-4 owners of sailboats that had electric conversions. I felt this was a viable approach. More expensive than an outboard and probably the same price as a new diesel, but really the only other option.

BENEFITS: Where to start. The new system totally changes the experience. In light wind you can instantly add a few knots speed, helping you take advantage of what little wind there is. No gas/exhaust fumes. Modular and adaptable system can evolve as new technologies develop. Motor can recharge the batteries while sailing. Numerous other regen options (solar, wind, portable generator).

DRAWBACKS: My trim is a little off (due to weight) which could be adjusted by moving batteries. I could fix this by using lithium batteries, but they're much more expensive. Range is more than adequate for inland lake. Battery level and power consumption takes getting used to, but it's the same principle as a gas tank.

COST: 
Outdrive $3.5K
Motor/system $3.5K
Charger: $500
Batteries: $1K
Fiberglass work installing outdrive $1.5K
My time spent mounting, wiring, etc: 15-20 hours

Tailoring a system to your boat is key. I can't imagine a scenario where you could use the same prop as you did with your old gas engine. I'd recommend a turnkey solution (like those offered by Electric Yacht), unless you are an electrical engineer and have a lot of time to spend on spec'ing the proper equipment.

Feel free to contact me with any questions. I'd be happy to talk about it.

Eric Harms


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## jepomer (Nov 29, 2008)

Capri 22 (1988) with Torqeedo Cruise 2.0 tiller model bought this spring during Defender's sale for $2500. Four GC2 batteries from Sam's Club for $300 mounted under the companionway step where the cooler used to be. Never used that cooler anyway.

The Torqeedo motor is at least as powerful as the Nissan 5 HP 2-cycle we used the previous year.

We sail 99% of the time. The electric motor is used for docking and maneuvering in crowded mooring fields or if the wind dies and we need to get back in or a real emergency. Made very good headway into 25 knot winds - almost at hull speed.

Mostly like the instant start and quiet operation. My wife and I can have a conversation at normal voice levels. 

Ironically, our slip is right next to the fuel dock.

John


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## intrepidseas (Jul 27, 2011)

I almost forgot...

Pros: clean, quiet, reliable, high torque at low RPM makes docking a lot easier, safer and fun, immediate power in standby is convenient when sailing (you can motor correct an accidental tack), weight of the system is in the batteries and you can move them low and center to improve trim, system is much simpler so that the boat's electric system is more "integrated" and robust, much easier to maintain and security of knowing that if the system needs maintenance you can probably do it yourself, many systems allow for power regeneration while sailing with the turning of the boat's propeller, and limited range of the batteries means you get to sail more!

Cons: Sometimes I miss the sound and smell of the old diesel. Aren't boats supposed to be loud and stinky? I was thinking of getting some diesel fume fragrance air freshener and a recording of diesel sounds for my sailing tunes, just for old times sake. ha!  Just kidding. No seriously, sometimes it's also a bit lonely having the only electric powered boat in my marina. I feel like a freak. Come join us... at www.electricseas.org


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## Captain Chris (Jul 28, 2011)

Exide makes 2.5V batteries for industrial and back up gen sets for hospitals and municipalities. These are guaranteed to last for 20 years. They are lead/acid conventional batteries. The only disadvantage is their size and maybe the weight (approx. 150# per.) Deisel/electric is a beautifully efficient system for some apps- locomotives!- but for a full keel high displacement (56,000#) boat like mine, it is simply not practical. I need 88 HP to get along off a lee shore in a good storm, and therefor, the size of the motor itself in prohibitive. However, I would think, and have designed, a Tri with the batts in the Amahs as working ballast, and a motor in each as well. Add this to a low speed airfoil (sailplane wing.) Cover all deck surfaces with flexible panels and you have a pretty neat machine. Silent, self charging, no pollution, and a "sail" that lasts forever. When I am rich and famous, I will build the prototype.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

With all of this, I do wonder how race committees will take to electric yachts - since there is no telltale engine noise or exhaust to show the engine is running, there'd be no-one to know you were motoring the whole way around the course leaving everyone else in your wake!!..


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

Hartley18 said:


> With all of this, I do wonder how race committees will take to electric yachts - since there is no telltale engine noise or exhaust to show the engine is running, there'd be no-one to know you were motoring the whole way around the course leaving everyone else in your wake!!..


I've wondered the same thing. Given how wacko some skippers seem to be about winning, even in late afternoon "beer can" races, it's only a matter of time before this becomes an issue.


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## mgunning (Dec 17, 2010)

*Racing with Electric Drive*

The issue here is even more complex for the race committees. Here is something we have experienced. The electric motor propulsion system has a greater drag than a free wheeling diesel with a like prop. Also most electric propulsion users select the largest prop possible to take advantage of the benefit of the electric motors torque. How do you address the issue that when racing with an electric system there is no free wheeling of the shaft and there is a regeneration possibility. This happens for most at around 5 knots and is a benefit to the cruiser but it does slow down the racer. It is possible to install a disconnect but seems to be an item that is of little use to most sailors. It is possible to use a feathering prop but you likely will lose regeneration capabilities.
Mike


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## Mark F (Mar 7, 2006)

Motoring into the Harbor I have had a few people comment that there was no water coming out of my exhaust. Their well intentioned warning usually turns to confusion then an enthusiast thumbs-up when I call back that I have an electric inboard .

Someone will come up with a system that will broadcast that an electric auxiliary is running during a race. In reality an EP setup that is sized for more than just getting in and out of the harbor is going to be heavy unless you go to lithium batteries. Not the best racing strategy.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

jepomer said:


> Capri 22 (1988) with Torqeedo Cruise 2.0 tiller model bought this spring during Defender's sale for $2500. Four GC2 batteries from Sam's Club for $300 mounted under the companionway step where the cooler used to be. Never used that cooler anyway.


Nice setup.
I was at a class in Santa Barbara a couple years ago and they used a similer setup for there small trainers. The owner liked it because it was cheaper and more reliable than outboards.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

davidpm said:


> Nice setup.
> I was at a class in Santa Barbara a couple years ago and they used a similer setup for there small trainers. The owner liked it because it was cheaper and more reliable than outboards.


One the Tumlares racing in our Classics fleet uses an electric outboard to get him in and out of the pen in no wind.. he refers to it as his "Bamix":










And I don't think he's being complimentary..


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Hartley18 said:


> With all of this, I do wonder how race committees will take to electric yachts - since there is no telltale engine noise or exhaust to show the engine is running, there'd be no-one to know you were motoring the whole way around the course leaving everyone else in your wake!!..


Cameron,
Virtually all of the big boy's toys these days have their engines running all the time in order to power such things as canting keels plus of course the plethora of electrical gear.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

tdw said:


> Cameron,
> Virtually all of the big boy's toys these days have their engines running all the time in order to power such things as canting keels plus of course the plethora of electrical gear.


??? I never noticed..

Must take a closer look next time the TP52's are out on the water.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

mgunning said:


> Also most electric propulsion users select the largest prop possible to take advantage of the benefit of the electric motors torque.


Racers will do almost anything to win including painting a wood anchor galvanize to reduce weight but still pass the anchor requirement.

I wonder if anyone has rigged a quick release on the prop so someone could dive on it and pop it off.
The fact that I thought of it and it is possible means someone has done it.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

I just googled it and found this:
How did Rescue Minor's quick release prop work??
Told you!!!


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## optikul81 (Aug 28, 2010)

Boat: 1971 Coronado 35
Motor: Mars Brushless 8KW
Controller: SevCon Millipak
Batteries: (8)Trojan T-105
Charger: 48v Golf Cart charger

Unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity just yet to get the boat in the water. I'm hoping to get it in next month ( crossing fingers )

The reason I went with electric: The boat had no current motor in it and I had started searching for alternatives. I am an Electronics Technician in the Navy and have absolutely no knowledge of Diesel engines so I decided on the electric motor. The Motor/controller/batteries and charger all came from one guy who had purchased the kit and decided to go a different route. I took it all off his hands for $2k.

I will post more of the performance when I get a chance to actually use it. Right now i'm using the two bladed prob that was already there but looking to get a larger 3 bladed.

Chris


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## Mark F (Mar 7, 2006)

Hi Chris,

Are you going to make the mounting frame and reduction or is it all together in a unit already?

Good luck with your install.

Mark


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## optikul81 (Aug 28, 2010)

The kit came with a 2:1 reduction setup. Looks like the same one ElectricYacht uses.

Link to Photo


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## Mark F (Mar 7, 2006)

Hi Chris,

That's quite a score for $2000. Do you know who made the setup? I like the heat sink for the controller. How is the unit switched (throttle &forward/reverse)?


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## swashbuckler_geoff (Aug 8, 2011)

mgunning said:


> The issue here is even more complex for the race committees. Here is something we have experienced. The electric motor propulsion system has a greater drag than a free wheeling diesel with a like prop. Also most electric propulsion users select the largest prop possible to take advantage of the benefit of the electric motors torque. How do you address the issue that when racing with an electric system there is no free wheeling of the shaft and there is a regeneration possibility. This happens for most at around 5 knots and is a benefit to the cruiser but it does slow down the racer. It is possible to install a disconnect but seems to be an item that is of little use to most sailors. It is possible to use a feathering prop but you likely will lose regeneration capabilities.
> Mike


With a lot of the feathering props you can "trick" them open to achieve regeneration. To do this when you are sailing, but the motor in reverse to open the prop, then neutral. The drag on the prop will keep the prop open and start regenerating. To feather the prop, simiply shift forward and then neutral and the prop will return to the feathered position.

-geoff
home | straightturn.net


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## swashbuckler_geoff (Aug 8, 2011)

Greetings Chris,

It is an Electric Yacht frame and it looks like someone bought a Mars brushless motor and Sevecon Millipac controller and adapted to the frame. If you have questions installation, let me know. I can probably help you.

My electric boat:
1976 Cal 3-30
Displacement:10,500
loa: 30'
lwl: 26.5

Motor: Electric Yacht 100ibl
batteries: 130ah 48v lithium

power draw:
20amp 3.5 knt
80 amp 5 knt

-geoff
home | straightturn.net


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

optikul81 said:


> Boat: 1971 Coronado 35
> Motor: Mars Brushless 8KW
> Controller: SevCon Millipak
> Batteries: (8)Trojan T-105
> ...


Sounds like a nice setup. I have heard that the right prop buys about a knot of speed so would like to see if that holds true in your case.


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## jrmdive (Dec 23, 2009)

*Catalina 30*

I have a 1984 Catalina 30 that I have converted to electric propulsion. The system is a Propulsion Marine 5.5KW (Mars double stator) system with an industrial gearbox. I have a string of 4 4D AGMs and a 12.5x14 acme prop.

It's great. It makes the boat even more fun, and since I'm much more comfortable with things electrical rather than things diesel it makes it less unfun to maintain.

The drivetrain is far superior to the ICE version. The drawback is the energy density issue as has previously been stated. If you'd be happy with a gallon or two of fuel, you'll be happy with electric. If you can live with that limitation, the advantages are legion.

JRM


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## intrepidseas (Jul 27, 2011)

It sounds crazy, but I honestly think one of the biggest advantages of going electric on a sailboat is the perceived disadvantage- reduced range. An electric system will get you in and out of the marina, no problem. It is true though that you have reduced range and can't motor long distances with an electric system under "auxiliary" power... but isn't it supposed to be a "sail"boat? Honestly, I have become a much more confident sailor and have gotten a lot more use out of my boat and enjoyed my time on the water a lot more without the false sense of security of my old diesel engine, which left me stranded a few times. I love the electric propulsion system on my boat!

A lot more people are getting excited about electric sailing now too. If you're interested, please join our community at: Electric Seas - A Resource For The Electric Boating Community

-Greg Martin
s/v Intrepid, Bristol 32e
Okinawa, Japan


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

intrepidseas said:


> It sounds crazy, but I honestly think one of the biggest advantages of going electric on a sailboat is the perceived disadvantage- reduced range.


Interesting way to look at the issue.
It does force one to think about each outing.


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## junkrig (Jun 3, 2011)

Only on land, but...
My wife grazes livestock on our small acreage, using an intensive grazing system which enables her to more than double the per acre animal production. It also requires her to run all over the place moving animals, opening and closing gates, and related tasks.
Her primary farm implement is a 36 volt electric golf cart.
3 years ago I put a 200 amp 50 volt Mitsubishi solar panel on the roof and a custom charge controller for 36 volts under the seat.
She only plugs it in to charge in the winter. Late spring, summer, and early fall the solar keeps her up ok.
She uses this cart all day every day, but usually just for short bursts of activity followed by some idle time.
An electric propulsion system for my boat is in my future.
Jeff


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

200 watts I think you mean.


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## doghousephoto (Oct 31, 2011)

*Tartan 30 Electric Drive in NC*

My electric drive in my Tartan 30. I used a kit from thunderstruck-ev.com that I got used off of Craigslist for $700, the guy also threw in a 48v charger for free (saved $375). I got the AGM batteries 8 from a salvage yard that got them from NC state gov servers. They were USB backup batteries. They have a 10 year life and were replaced by the state at 4 years, $280. The gearbox I bought new and is a Browning 302 with 1:1.4 ratio. I am spinning a indigo prop I bought when I was using the A4. I will probably get something with more pitch when I pull out again. The gearbox was $650. So for under $1700 I have an electric system. I can do 3 kts at 20 amps and 5 knots at 60 amps. Not sure of the range yet. I have a small generator that charged everything back up one night that I spent on a sandbar and would probably extend the range if I were to use it while underway. SO far I love it! It is simple to use and costs nothing to run and very quiet. I will try to do some regen in the future since the prop spins at 3.5 knots. Lots of room for improvement to this system but for now, I am very satisfied. This is an older photo when I was just trying to get the boat out of the yard and back to the marina. (Now 8 batts and better mounting of the controller.) And everything fits under the engine housing nicely.


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## mgunning (Dec 17, 2010)

*Tartan 30 E Drive*

Great buys! Just a couple of comments - I know you have updated the final installation:
- You might want to look at putting in some heat sinks or fans for both the motor and the controller. More air circulation around the system when the motor box is on would make that a good idea.
- The cables seem to be a little small for the system but I did not see the size of the batteries or the max amps you can draw.
- Great location for the weight but I did not see much in the way of strong securing of the batteries, that would be really important.
- Could not tell if the controller was a Gen 4 or not but we have had better success with that unit than the older controllers.
- Make sure the charger is programed for AGM batteries and if it is not compatible, get one that is as it could ruin your batteries.
- Can not comment of the reduction but, if it is giving you good distance and close to hull speed at a reasonable draw, it must be pretty close.

The Tartan 30 is a really nice traditional boat S&S design and I am sure you will enjoy it with your new electric propulsion.
Mike 
"Electra" Newport 30MKll 
EY of Southern California


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

doghousephoto;792041Not sure of the range yet. I have a small generator that charged everything back up one night that I spent on a sandbar and would probably extend the range if I were to use it while underway. [/QUOTE said:


> What generator are you using?
> Also please post range info when you get it.


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## doghousephoto (Oct 31, 2011)

Hey Mike and Dave, 
I'll have to get a newer photo posted. This photo was how I set things up to get out of the yard and 1000 meters to the marina. Batteries are now secure. The connections are welding wire, three fans, heat sinks, good charger with Gel and AGM capability, saving up for a Gen4 controller, and it is an awesome sailing boat! The generator is a little 2000 watt thing I got off the Home Depot website for $400. I pulled the carburetor off and am switching it over to gas vapor. I am hoping to build a box for it to mount it in front of the mast. When I am done, it will have electric start and a small adjustable blower fan will be the accelerator with all the controls mounted in the cockpit. Thanks for your interest and I will post more when I get it. Bill


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## Mark F (Mar 7, 2006)

Hi Bill,

Looking forward to some more photos. Sounds like a great system. Nice score on the AGM's! Changing the prop will be one of the biggest things you can do for performance. I'm guessing a 13x13 three blade will give you close to 6 knots of boat speed and around 4 knots at a 20 amp draw.

Mike, what problems were you having with the Sevcon Millipak (pre gen4)? I've been running mine for 3 1/2 years with no problems.

Mark


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

I've used an electric motor on my dinghy for years. I can load all of my propulsion with one hand, (one trolling motor + deep cycle battery). It starts instantly no noise. I can troll around a sizable lake all day at hull speed.

If I ever get a bigger boat, I will do the same with an electric outboard.

In the future I plan to build a small solar bracket for stern, I need 400watts, but right now 200watt panels are too expensive, and too big. Maybe in a few years??


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## bgeddes (Jul 11, 2010)

My situation is a bit different, but I'll chime in here. 

'86 O'day 192
55lb trolling motor
2 Group 27 deep cycle batteries 

This boat only sails on an inland lake (for now). No tides or currents to contend with when leaving or returning to the marina. My reason for going electric vs and traditional outboard had more to do with reliability than anything else. I was unable to find a good used outboard for the price of the electric setup. The 55lb thrust motor pushes the boat at about 4 knots. As others have said, the perceived lack of range forces me to get the sails up and ride the wind. I say perceived lack of range because 2 batteries is more than enough. One would have sufficed. 

A big benefit of the electric setup is the Mrs. can operate the motor without effort. An outboard in out size range would most likely be pull started. The silent operation is very nice too. Communication getting into and out of our slip is not burdened with having to talk over an ICE. No fuel and exhaust smells are also a great benefit. 

The big drawback is getting energy back into the batteries. A standard automotive type charger was used this season. Next year a moderately sized (~50-75 watts) solar panel should be plenty to keep the batteries topped off. With the limited amount of thrust, probably equal to about half of a horsepower, kind of locks us into flat non-moving waters, at least until my sailing gets better.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

doghousephoto said:


> I pulled the carburetor off and am switching it over to gas vapor.


What is that?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Isn't that what is left in the tank after you run out of fuel.


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## Mardagan (Dec 3, 2009)

Is anyone using the New Elco electric motors?? I have seen some ads for the new Hunter 36e sailboat with the Elco marine elecrtic motor and standby generator. Looks very promising!

Jeremy


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

The elco system in the hunter is honestly a bit of a cludge.


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## Mardagan (Dec 3, 2009)

WDS123 said:


> The elco system in the hunter is honestly a bit of a cludge.


Can you elaborate a little more on what exactly is wrong with this system? Does it have to do more with how its installed in the Hunter itself or is there a design flaw in your mind about the Elco Marine yacht engine's.


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## deckofficer (Feb 18, 2012)

I wish companies that have designed a better mousetrap would learn how to get it out to the masses. Of all my recent research into EP, the one thing I found in common was over-pricing for the marine market. We aren't all Thurston Howell, III's. I have built many EVs, so through my vendors I am aware of the component prices of motors and controllers, and have witnessed triple mark-ups for a system consisting of parts that I have used and bought, marketed to the maritime users.

Until today, as I was chasing one Internet link to another and came across this company,
Advanced Marine electric Propulsion

Owner and employee owned, just north of SF, I think you will agree the marine grade quality surpasses other offerings, but the kicker is $3500 for a complete system, less batteries of course.

Now, if these good folks could only figure out how to have a visible presence on the Internet, it wouldn't take dumb luck in finding out what they have to offer.


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## Mardagan (Dec 3, 2009)

Bob,

Thanks for the insight into other cheaper solutions, but is there anyone who actually has or has used the Elco Marine electric motor? I would like to hear some opinions if there are any. I am interested in real world experience.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

If you look to there current core market which is electric powerboats on lakes you may get better feed back as there is a very limited amount of units on sailboats


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## deckofficer (Feb 18, 2012)

tommays said:


> If you look to there current core market which is electric powerboats on lakes you may get better feed back as there is a very limited amount of units on sailboats


So that there is no confusion, I'm sure tommays comment refers to Elco, and not Advanced Marine. AM, to my knowledge has done nothing but sailboats.


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## nccouple (Jun 11, 2011)

Biggest draw back would be the battery bank you would have to carry on board and recharging. Would be rather simple to fab up with a little machine work to connect a dc motor to your drive. Then control it with a variable speed motor controller or simply step your voltages with contractors and switches. Could be accomplished very inexpensively using used electric forklift parts, battery bank being the most expensive thing.


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## deckofficer (Feb 18, 2012)

nocouple,

You got that right. Current price for lithium batteries is $1.30 per a/hr per 3.2 volt cell. My bank will be small at 200 a/hr 48 volt for inverter/propulsion bank, a modest 9.6 Kw/hr. Cost $4160, 227 lbs of batteries. The benefit will be the low weight, able to cycle deeper than lead acids, and if cycled down to 70% DOD, will last 3000 cycles before dropping to 80% capacity. That is cheaper in the long run than lead acid, not to mention no more battery replacement for my lifetime. 

As to the controllers, if DC, the pulse width modulated is the way to go. You would want the linear power delivery of step-less ramp up, plus using taps for different voltages would unbalance your battery bank and shorten its life.


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