# what boat for a live aboard?



## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

now I am sure you could come up with a million suggestions but here are my needs.

2 adults wife and I as crew 

port in oceanside California with coastal sailing nothing like going to Hawaii just this minute 

this is a live aboard I cannot afford new but I would like to work with about a 80k price.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Look at sailboats...step aboard...buy one you both like within your budget...they will ALL work for your needs. Just get a good survey..condition of boat is FAR more important than brand or model.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Lots of boats out there would do what you want. Look for something in the 30-37' range... anything smaller will be difficult for liveaboard use for two adults. I'd recommend you reserve about 15-20% of your budget for updating, refitting, repairing any boat you purchase.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Yes, hit the brokers. 80k would get you a very nice older Catalina 36 with money to spare.


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## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

Catalina was the brand I was looking at they are extremely plentiful around here I was looking for the 40' range is this alittle too ambitious for a crew of two?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Raptor69 said:


> Catalina was the brand I was looking at they are extremely plentiful around here I was looking for the 40' range is this alittle too ambitious for a crew of two?


It'll be roomy enough for you but will eat up alot or your 80k. let CD chime in on this.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Raptor69 said:


> Catalina was the brand I was looking at they are extremely plentiful around here I was looking for the 40' range is this alittle too ambitious for a crew of two?


Raptor...you will get contrary advice but I say...buy the size boat that you both can see yourselves comfortable on. It is no more difficult to handle a 40 footer than a 35 footer and though most people start small and work their way up...you end up losing a lot of $$ buying and selling boats. Get the boat you want and then pay someone to teach you to sail it. 
Note that the ANNUAL expense of a 40 footer is likely to be 25% or more greater than a 35 footer...so be sure you can handle more than just the purchase price when deciding on a size boat. 
Also...nothing is for free...an 80k 40 footer will be older and in poorer condition than and 80k 35 footer. Fixing stuff on boats is three times more expensive than fixing the same stuff on land.


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## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

thanks for the help I never realized that there would be such a large increase in maintenance cost from 35-40'


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## thesnort (Jun 2, 2007)

Hi Raptor,
I happen to know the Oceanside Marina a bit and it seems that there's a long, long waiting list for a liveaboard slip. It would certainly help to know someone in this case. There are some sneakaboards there, but they're cracking down, from what I've heard.


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## m2736185 (Apr 10, 2008)

camaraderie said:


> Raptor...you will get contrary advice but I say...buy the size boat that you both can see yourselves comfortable on. It is no more difficult to handle a 40 footer than a 35 footer and though most people start small and work their way up...you end up losing a lot of $$ buying and selling boats. Get the boat you want and then pay someone to teach you to sail it.
> Note that the ANNUAL expense of a 40 footer is likely to be 25% or more greater than a 35 footer...so be sure you can handle more than just the purchase price when deciding on a size boat.
> Also...nothing is for free...an 80k 40 footer will be older and in poorer condition than and 80k 35 footer. Fixing stuff on boats is three times more expensive than fixing the same stuff on land.


I have to ask how would a 5 foot increase have an increase of 25% in expense? What does this 25% account for? Dock space? Paint?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Beth Leonard, author of the Voyager's Handbook, estimates that costs triple for every additional ten feet of boat length. So a 45' boat is three times more expensive to own than a 35' boat.  Also, as Cam pointed out, an $80k 40' boat is going to be in worse shape than an $80k 35' boat and the repairs are going to be more costly to make....

As for the increased expenses... dock space is usually paid for by the Length of the boat... longer boat---> higher marina fees. Also, haulouts, painting, pressure washing, etc are all generally charged by the foot... longer boat---->higher cost. 

Finally, the gear on a longer, larger boat, is larger and often more complex, which means increased maintenance costs. A larger boat will often have larger, more complex winches, sometimes powered. They will often have a powered windlass, a more complicated electrical system, more systems, like a watermaker or a genset that wouldn't generally be found on smaller boats and so on.


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## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

thesnort said:


> Hi Raptor,
> I happen to know the Oceanside Marina a bit and it seems that there's a long, long waiting list for a liveaboard slip. It would certainly help to know someone in this case. There are some sneakaboards there, but they're cracking down, from what I've heard.


Good to know thanks for the intel, yeah I was kinda thinking the same thing I doubted that you could get by for any lengthly period of time living in a regular slip anyway.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Sorry, late to the thread.

There are many brands you could choose from. Catalina was my choice. I like the older bene's too. Kris and I once looked seriously at a Oceanis Center Cockpit (Bene), but in the end decided we liked Catalina better. But I guess it is all personal choice. I am a fan of their (Catalina) boats and they have a tight owners group and take a lot of pride in what they do. In essense, Catalina would be a good choice for your use.

40 feet is too big on 80k - IMO. I tend to be more blunt, but an 80k 40 boat willl most likely be a boat in need of a lot of repair. The 400's now run a pretty easy 250k-300k (now that is new). I realize you are not buying new... but that is a considerable price difference. However, the sail-ability of a 40 versus 32 is not that much different. I agree with Cam on that. The one area I will say that is much more difficult os docking and getting in/out of a slip. Larger boats are more difficult and often require more experience, more help, more gadgets (like a bow thruster) or all of the above.

A Catalina 36 has been reccomended by BF. That was my immediate thought too. The table in the salon folds up and gives you a lot more space down below. The second (aft) cabin is a joke for anything but short-stayed guests, but the V is not too bad and moderately comfortable. I feel it would provide you the best compromise. Also, and this is very important, it is a very FUN boat to sail and forgiving. It has always been one of my favorite boats. You could run her down to Catalina Island or the baja... they have even made Hawaii, but I will not start that war again!!!! 

At any rate, everyone is different and we all look for different things. But if it was me and my wife and 80k, I would be looking seriously at a 36 as my top contender.

- CD

PS The MKII is my STRONG preference of the two C36's. That will put you in a later model boat and likely a tad more money, but it is worth the extra bit.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

I'll go a completely different route than the others. If I was spending up to $80k on a liveaboard, I'd look long and hard at the Islander Freeport*. The cabin is enormous and extremely liveable for a couple. Yes, it's relatively slow, but you wanted a liveaboard, not a racer! And the best part is you can probably get one for a fair bit less than $80k, so you can use the left overs to fit it out and update it as you please.

*I prefer salty, "classic", pirate-y looking boats.

Or, you could go in even another direction. How about a Gemini catamaran? I've seen them on the market in the $80k range and you'd get lots of space (read 40~ monohull space) in a much small LOA package. Maybe Chuckles can validate my suggestion (or not!).


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Kwaltersmi-

$80k is a bit low for a Gemini 105. You could probably get an older Gemini 3400 for that though.


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## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

Big, roomy. C'mon, get a tank. Westsail 32 for $48K in LA. Something like that is what you need.
1976 Westsail 32 Boat For Sale


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## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

we did a lot of looking and the Catalina 36 seems to be the vessel that meets all our needs as we are young and plan to have children it should be more than large enough, thanks for that 48k model seabreeze_97 but we are more into the Catalina's because it will be an easy transition from our apartment that is about 2 miles from the oceanside harbor. That west sail was awesome though but I promised my wife no boats that need a major refit.

Now that we are getting closer, where is the best place to finance, I mean I am sure my credit union would roll around laughing if I told them I want a loan to buy a sailing yacht to live on.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Essex Credit does a lot of boat financing...


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Don't look at thing less than 36', marinas from SD to Newport won't allow LA's on anything less

Also, nail down a slip first, you'll find 100's of boats to fit your needs, but slips over 30' are hard to find or have monster wait lists and LA's are even harder.

Although SD bay may be your best bet on a LA slip


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

*Many thoughts... esp with kids*



Raptor69 said:


> we did a lot of looking and the Catalina 36 seems to be the vessel that meets all our needs as we are young and plan to have children it should be more than large enough, thanks for that 48k model seabreeze_97 but we are more into the Catalina's because it will be an easy transition from our apartment that is about 2 miles from the oceanside harbor. That west sail was awesome though but I promised my wife no boats that need a major refit.
> 
> Now that we are getting closer, where is the best place to finance, I mean I am sure my credit union would roll around laughing if I told them I want a loan to buy a sailing yacht to live on.


I will give you some guidlines on this.

There are a lot of financing companies. Essex is one, as mentioned. Intercoastal and first commercial credit are two others. That is all they do are Marine financing. Ask for Gerald at Intercoastal and Mike at First Commerical. If you cannot find their numbers, let me know.

Here is a word of warning: Banks do NOT like lending money to boats for liveaboards - esp on sailboats. A Tayana 58 comes to mind as a reason why. Best to keep that to yourself. They also like loaning you money when you have a different permanent residence that you own (ie, house... not an apartment). They like 20% down and credit scores in the 700's or better. They like about 6-12 months living expenses (with the boat expense). They also like a debt to income of about 35%-40% WITH the boat payment and some reasonable estimate of maintenance or slipage if that will be a major part of your outgo. That 35-40% would also include your house payment. You need a very steady work history and will fill out a personal financial statement with about 2 years of tax returns. Qualifying for a boat, in my opinion, is much more difficult that qualifying for a house. Why? Houses are considered an appreciating assett that does not sail away. SOoner or later, they will get much or all of their money back on a repo. Not neccessarily the case on a boat. The credit restrictions in the US have not helped matters... or so I have been told.

Now that you have read all of that, I will also say that you could be better upping your boat cost to a LOAN (not boat value) of 80-100k. Seems like, depending on your credit score, they may not be quite as stringent on those loans. They like 80-100k loans for 20 years. Much (or any, depending upon the bank) less than 80k and you drop down to a ten or maybe fifteen year note and you may actually be paying more every month, not less.

Some other cautions: I have raised kids on a boat and lived aboard. It isn't easy and I would almost say it is tough. That aft cabin on the 36 will not be a great long term (maybe even short term) answer. The 36 also does not have a seperate shower which is almost a deal killer for me and my wife. With our boys, it IS a deal killer. On the 36, you will always be drying off that head... and you will come to HATE that quickly.

With the kids piece of the puzzle, I might push you away from the 36. It is really better as a couples LA boat. ANything beyond that will get tight. Go take a look at a Catalina 380. That was what we lived aboard. The cost might be a bit more than the numbers we discussed, but as I have mentioned about loans, you should still fit into their guidlines (and may fit into them better). The 380 has a seperate shower and a MUCH more comfortable owners cabin with a queen centerline berth. It is a med disp boat and actually comes off of the old Morgan hulls - not a Catalina. It is fairly slow (sorry... it is), but is very steady and will plow through seas. The 36 will be more fun to sail, but the 380 will keep you dryer and more sure footed in a sea. It is also a better LA than the 36.

I can answer most of your questions on a 380 and many on a 36 if you wish to ask me.

All the best and good luck in your search,

- CD

PS Typo: First Commercial also does large motor homes.


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## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

Cruisingdad thank you that was very informative especially since I did not know about the separate shower that would be a deal killer right now I am gainfully employed by the Marines and I get about 1700 a month to cover living cost in southern California I am not too concerned about my credit "it's awesome" but I agree that it's going to be hard to convince a bank to give out a loan when I don't own a house, I will look a the catalina 38's and go for a higher loan. Last night we sat down and started making a list of stuff in the house, really the only thing we are going to miss is the ease of access to a hot shower and the large refrigerator.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Raptor69 said:


> Cruisingdad thank you that was very informative especially since I did not know about the separate shower that would be a deal killer right now I am gainfully employed by the Marines and I get about 1700 a month to cover living cost in southern California I am not too concerned about my credit "it's awesome" but I agree that it's going to be hard to convince a bank to give out a loan when I don't own a house, I will look a the catalina 38's and go for a higher loan. Last night we sat down and started making a list of stuff in the house, really the only thing we are going to miss is the ease of access to a hot shower and the large refrigerator.


Raptor,

First of all, thank you for your service to our country.

Second, the hot showers will be fine and you will be fine with the refrigerator on both. You just have to organize time and water better. It was never an issue for us. The exception is ice... which somehow seems to be a precious commodity, quickly, for those of us without freezers or ice makers!! But you will find your way around it.

All the best.

- CD


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## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

you're welcome, I think I have a lot less to ponder seeing the rest of the world, well the less desirable parts that is, I am pretty happy with the way our country is I don't ask questions I don't want answers to and being close to death so many times makes me live as much as possible, hence the live aboard, cruising dad can you tell me if there is a major difference between the 380 and the 400? I really want to narrow this down before I start looking at slips and boats I can already tell right off the bat that there are a TON of 380's for sale that seem to fit well and they range from refit minor tlc and immaculate.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Big difference between the 380's and 400's. But I would be concerned about a 400 anywhere near the price range you have discussed. Sounds like a project boat to me. The 380 is really pushing it.

Stick with the 380 unless you have a lot more money available. My opinion, only. If you want info on the 400, I can obviously give you anything you want there too as that is the boat I support as Technical Editor (and obviously own one).

- CD


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## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

if it were possible would you recommend a 400 over a 380?


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Raptor69 said:


> if it were possible would you recommend a 400 over a 380?


In a heartbeat. I have owned both.

- CD


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## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

well then I think it goes without saying that I would be a lot better off dropping some more coin on a better boat the being unsatisfied in a 380 thank you for your input I would really appreciate it if you could tell me about some of the 400's good attributes.

thanks Nick.


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## SYMandalay (Nov 9, 2007)

There are costs that increase directly proportional to the length of the boat (dockage for example). There are costs that increase with the square of the boat length (sails for instance get taller and thicker as well as longer). There are costs that increase with the cube of the boat length (anything related to volume or displacement).

C


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## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

SYMandalay said:


> There are costs that increase directly proportional to the length of the boat (dockage for example). There are costs that increase with the square of the boat length (sails for instance get taller and thicker as well as longer). There are costs that increase with the cube of the boat length (anything related to volume or displacement).
> 
> C


Good point but I am not really concerned about those costs, yes this is a sailboat but it is also going to be my home, better to have what I want than wish for what I need.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Raptor,

Not to make things more complicated for you, but as long as you are comparing the Catalina 380 with the 400, you might also want to look at the Catalina 42. The 400 is a newer more evolved design, with some nice features (e.g. twin helms) that the 42 lacks, but the 42 has been in production since late 80's, so there are MANY examples available and at a wider price range on the used market (low $100Ks - upper $200Ks, typically).

A Mark 2 version of the Catalina 42 was introduced mid-90s, and is still in production. Over the years, there were at least four different interior configurations offered, so you may find one of them that you prefer. :

C42 Owner's Association

P.S. Thank you for your service to our country.


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## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

JohnRPollard said:


> Raptor,
> 
> Not to make things more complicated for you, but as long as you are comparing the Catalina 380 with the 400, you might also want to look at the Catalina 42. The 400 is a newer more evolved design, with some nice features (e.g. twin helms) that the 42 lacks, but the 42 has been in production since late 80's, so there are MANY examples available and at a wider price range on the used market (low $100Ks - upper $200Ks, typically).
> 
> ...


so you are saying as long as I am considering a 400 the 42 may fit the bill and be more cost effective?

I will check out your 42 owners link thanks

also just to let you know there are good people over there this guy were very nice to us always offered a lot of info and were genuinely nice people plus I liked to give candy to his kids they were pretty cute too it's hard not to when I have 3 nieces and nephews. I am on the far left.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Raptor69 said:


> well then I think it goes without saying that I would be a lot better off dropping some more coin on a better boat the being unsatisfied in a 380 thank you for your input I would really appreciate it if you could tell me about some of the 400's good attributes.
> 
> thanks Nick.


Nick,

I would not point you wrong about the 380. It would work for your purpose.

A 400 is a LOT more money. The difference should be about $50,000, I would guess. FOr an 01 400, you will be close to $200,000. For an 01 380, $140's or less. You may get one in the 130's, I do not know.

A disclaimer: I am NOT a broker or in the sales business so I do not follow this stuff much. I just pulled some listings off of Yachtworld.

The 400 is a much faster boat and more sure footed. Ours loves to run around 7-7.2. Our 380 was happy about 5.6-5.8. You will have two heads, which ahs both negatives and positives. You have a dual steering which allows for getting on/off the boat easier and allows you better visibility under sail. You have more tankage, more room (both in the aft cabin and V), and it is a lot quieter boat when running. Both have seperate showers. You will have more room in the galley and more storage.

You just need to go on them and see the difference between the two. The 400 will remind you of a big 380 with a second head. But I would not hesitate going back to a 380 either. Super boat and served us well.

My reccomendation is just start shopping boats. I reccomend a good broker. Others on Sailnet will point you to one in your area. He may even have other suggestions for boats. You also need to work out some type of basic approval for your loan... to make sure you are not wasting his or your time. $200,000 is a long way from your original post of $80,000... and that is a 2001 model.

- CD


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Yes, I would also look at the 42. Great boat. Does have some drawbacks... but a great boat. It will likely be cheaper than the 400 for the same year, etc.

Nice pic, by the way. Thanks again for your service. I gotta run.

- CD


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Raptor69 said:


> so you are saying as long as I am considering a 400 the 42 may fit the bill and be more cost effective?


Yeah, essentially, depending on what your priorities are.

Here are some C42 examples out your way:

Two-Cabin Marina Del Ray C42

Two-Cabin Ventura C42

Two-Cabin Alameda C42

Three-Cabin Marina Del Ray C42

I would think a two-cabin version would be preferable for a couple.

P.S. Great photo. In my experience most folks are good people, it's just the few bad apples that cause a lot grief for the rest of us.


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## RickQuann (May 27, 2005)

" this is a live aboard I cannot afford new but I would like to work with about a 80k price"

Have you looked at a 38' C & C Landfall or a Tartan 37? Both of these boats are within your budget


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Awsome photo Raptor.............my family thanks you for your service


oh,btw, just to clarify, you DID mean far left in the photo right ??........


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## buckeyesailor (Mar 9, 2008)

I can't speak with any authority or level of competence at all about the thread.........but from the bottom of my heart I can extend a THANKS and PRAYERS for you and all your buddies for serving......


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## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

yes left in the photo as far as anything else goes I am as right as one can be

I think this will suit my needs, any input guys.

1990 Catalina Tri-Cabin Boat For Sale


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Raptor,

That is a Mark 1 version of the C42. I actually prefer the exterior appearance of these earlier Mark 1 boats. They just looked more traditional to me, less plastic fantastic.

But the Mark 2's had more tankage, a bigger cockpit, and a bit more room in the aft cabins. Eventually, the hulls were made with Vinylester resin (which is more blister resistant) but I'm not sure of the exact year (mid-90s I think).

I think this boat you linked to probably represents good value. But one thing you might want to consider is whether you really need the tri-cabin version? With more than a couple kids the tri-cabin would certainly be desirable, but for two adults the two-cabin layout offers a lot of advantages (bigger galley, more lounging space in main salon, more locker/stowage space, better nav station, etc).

I would think you could find a similar priced two-cabin version, Mark 1.


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## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

I like the tri cabin because I plan to have children.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Low priced for that year/model and level of equipment. Either you will get a great deal or something is wrong. Get a good survey for boat and separate for engine. If all is well...it should be a great boat fo you guys! good luck with the process!!


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Raptor69 said:


> I like the tri cabin because I plan to have children.


Roger that. We like it too. If we bought one of these it would be the tri-cabin. But I wanted to make sure you knew about some of the trade-offs. Even the 2-cabin version would be fine with a couple kids, though, especially young'ins.

Another variable is the configuration of the forward cabin. It came with two options: Pullman berth (as in the version you linked to) and a standard v-berth. My preference would be the pullman version because it gets a bigger head further forward with a dedicated shower stall.

I have pretty well exhausted my knowledge of these now. My suggestion would be to read-up on them a bit at the C42 Owner's site I linked to earlier. Also, you may want to read this thread in which some of us discussed the C42 previously, and in which I linked to some reviews:

LINK

Finally, no matter what boat you choose, make sure you get a SURVEY. Money well spent. Good luck to you!!!


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

*C42 Plusses and Minuses in my eyes*

Only have a few minutes then I have to run.

THe 42 is a very nice sailing boat. she has been written upas "classic plastic" and praised by her owners. It has been one of Catalina's best selling models ever, and one of its longest production runs. I also understand that it is Frank Butler's favorite boat, but this is second hand.

There are several things about the 42 that make it appealing. As stated before, it sails very nice, sure footed, and actually pretty fast. Though it is not considered a racer, once you get her down, no doubt you may find yourself with second place pretty consistently. Not bad for a boat with this much room. Some other great features (though I will refer more to the MKII version) is the ability to put a washer/dryer in the forward head. That is a huge plus as most sailboats cannot afford the room. It really fits in there nicely (in the shower stall) while still leaving the stall. Great idea by Catalina. Also, there is what my wife and I call the 'garage'. It is a cavernous space accessed either aft of the galley or from the lazarette. It is awesome, and more than enough room for a generator or all kinds of other gear. I cannot tell you how precious that kind of space is on a sailboat and not common. Also, there is a head accessed from the main salon, the cockpit is huge and great for entertaining, the main salon and galley are very large and comfortable... much more so than most 42 foot boats.

Now the negateives...

We ALMOST got a 42 over a 400. It was a tough decision. In the end, the negatives outweighed the positives (for us... not everyone).

First of all, in order to get the forward head (with washer/dryer), you need to get the Pullman arrangement. I am NO fan of a pullman as a liveaboard or cruiser. For many, this is fine... but for me, I get up and check the anchor at night or have to go to the john, or a drink of water, etc... and you have to crawl over the other person waking them up. THere are few people that will tell you that a centerline queen is not a better arrangement and more comfortable as a LA. And the 42 does offer a centerline queen - but then you lose the forward head and washer/dryer. I do not know if you can get a w/d with the centerline queen - but I think not. If you can, I would be concerned about the space it would take up and compromises of. As such, in order to really appreciate the W/D and forward head, you have to get the pullman (which is not much fun is a sea, but you have a second head and that is another story).

Here are some other real drawbacks to the 42. You have curved setees. WHy is that an issue? For laying out and stretching out or sea berths. Also, the nav station is very small compared to most boats of her size and well away from the companionway. In fact, I can honestly say I do not like it all. The aft cabin, though better than say the 35, is still small for kids. Someone will be crawling over the other. That is not the end of the world, but a V can end up being better for two kids of the same sex (or even different).

That is my quick run-down on the 42. Awesome boat, really... and we almost bought it. However, the negatives outweighed the positives for us. We had lived aboard before and knew what it was like to raise kids on a boat. As such, it was not the best layout for our purposes. Others will dissagree and I totally reccomend them to come forward. There is no perfect boat (well, except mine of course). Everything has tradeoffs and some things are more important to some people than other things. That is why there are so many makes and models of sailboats.

- CD

PS There are major losses in the three cabing version of that boat unless you have a large family. Not worth it unless you will have more than 2 kids. I hesitate reccomending that. You need to go on that boat first. You lose the garage, the galley is moved across from the salon, and it kind of chops up the boat. If you have a large family, it is a heaven send... but for a family of two... I would not wish it.


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## LoveAndLuck (Apr 19, 2007)

I bougth Cam's 44 Irwin. Wife and I live on it. We enjoy it. What I can say. Look, look ,look. Decide what is important regarding size, equipment, and your purpose. Get a great survey person you can trust. Be prepaired to spend a lot of money. We started with a 44 (1st boat) and decided to just jump in. It can work but takes a lot of effort and $. You need to look at total cost. Talk to others re: yearly costs, in water and out. And remember a bad day on a boat is much better that a good day at work. Good luck!


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## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

LoveAndLuck said:


> I bougth Cam's 44 Irwin. Wife and I live on it. We enjoy it. What I can say. Look, look ,look. Decide what is important regarding size, equipment, and your purpose. Get a great survey person you can trust. Be prepaired to spend a lot of money. We started with a 44 (1st boat) and decided to just jump in. It can work but takes a lot of effort and $. You need to look at total cost. Talk to others re: yearly costs, in water and out. And remember a bad day on a boat is much better that a good day at work. Good luck!


what were your living arrangements like before your LA and how drastic did the change feel?


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

My 2 cents...
I thought the catalina 400 & 42 are excellent boats, EXCEPT for the aft cabin. The aft cockpit footwell intrudes into the headroom of the aft cabin significantly. I spent a week on a boat like that and whacked my head several times, didn't do any damage to the boat but I still would not want that setup. Fine for weekends but not for long term cruising. Center cockpit baby! No GIECO insurance for me.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

xort said:


> My 2 cents...
> I thought the catalina 400 & 42 are excellent boats, EXCEPT for the aft cabin. The aft cockpit footwell intrudes into the headroom of the aft cabin significantly. I spent a week on a boat like that and whacked my head several times, didn't do any damage to the boat but I still would not want that setup. Fine for weekends but not for long term cruising. Center cockpit baby! No GIECO insurance for me.


XORT and CD,

Good points about the C42 and 400. I have not been aboard either, but looking at the photos and reading reviews (and listening to CD rave!) I always thought the aft cabin in the C400 (twin cabin version) would be pretty spacious. Xort, was that the tri-cabin version you looked at?

On the C42, my feeling has always been that the "owner's" cabin would be the forward pullman or v-berth. The kids would be relegated to the aft cabins. Too bad for them on headroom!!   CD, We all debated the "Pullman Berth" in an earlier thread begun by Kwalt (I think). I guess it's one of those items that is personal preference. From the perspective of a weekender/vacationer, I look at it as a nice feature for a lot of different reasons that I think I mentioned in that thread. On the C42, I definitely think it's the better arrangement, for the reasons you described concerning the forward head/shower.

(CD, P.S. on the C42, I hadn't noticed any washer/dryers on the C42s we've been eyeballing. I do see that most of the C47s have them, though. Good to know that can be done, but I don't think it makes a lot of sense for us given how we would primarily use the boat??)

XORT, I agree that center cockpits have many virtues, especially the large aft owner's cabin. I find that they don't work as well as a practical matter (and visually) until the boat gets up over 40 feet, better yet mid-upper 40s. Also, to the best of my knowledge Catalina has never made any center cockpits (maybe some Morgans?) Beneteau, on the other hand, does have a fair number of center cockpit models beginning at 36 feet, although they seem to be building fewer CC models these days....


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## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

I like the 400 but I don't really dig the dual wheels..... what is the advantage for this? I like the 42 tri cabin but agree it's too difficult to find the "right" one.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Raptor69 said:


> I like the 400 but I don't really dig the dual wheels..... what is the advantage for this? I like the 42 tri cabin but agree it's too difficult to find the "right" one.


Raptor,

As modern boat designs have grown wider in the stern (for various reasons), the wheel/helm has had to get larger as well so that it can be easily reached from either side of the cockpit when alternating tacks. But a large wheel can be very cumbersome for moving around the cockpit, especailly at anchor. Eventually, it begins to make sense to equip the boat with two smaller wheels, which can be placed outboard and within easy reach of the helmsman on either tack, and which make moving around/through the cockpit much easier -- especially for accessing the swim/boarding transom.

I actually think the twin-wheeled 400 is a plus compared to the C42.


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## Raptor69 (Apr 13, 2008)

JohnRPollard said:


> Raptor,
> 
> As modern boat designs have grown wider in the stern (for various reasons), the wheel/helm has had to get larger as well so that it can be easily reached from either side of the cockpit when alternating tacks. But a large wheel can be very cumbersome for moving around the cockpit, especailly at anchor. Eventually, it begins to make sense to equip the boat with two smaller wheels, which can be placed outboard and within easy reach of the helmsman on either tack, and which make moving around/through the cockpit much easier -- especially for accessing the swim/boarding transom.
> 
> I actually think the twin-wheeled 400 is a plus compared to the C42.


well that confirms my suspicion then thanks.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Raptor I have spent a lot of time on these Catalinas. The twin wheel is really nice. Having three cabins has a plus in that it can be used for storage/workshop. If have enough kids, it can be converted back to a berth. The biggest advice I could give to you is to spend time on as many boats as you can. I don't mean just going to a broker. I mean joining a club. Spend the money, go to some functions, sign up to crew, jump around and SAIL on as many different types of boats as you can. Take your time. You will notice things and learn things this way that will help you make your decision. You are going to sail this thing after all, I hope. So having a boat that ends up not sailing how you want it to will be a big disappointment in the end.


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