# Anchoring



## BenMP (Oct 19, 2010)

I am new to anchoring and was wondering about what the standard procedure is in terms of how long can you leave the boat?
Do you need to leave someone on board? 
How do you find out the rules for anchoring in an area?


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

How long you leave your boat unattended at anchor depends entirely on how comfortable you are with leaving the boat unattended.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Also on the quality and size of your anchor and chain, the amount of chain you have out, in proportion with the depth, the quality and holding of the bottom, the quality of the shelter, the weather forecast and so on

Regards

Paulo


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## swadiver (Jan 17, 2007)

It also depends on where you anchor. In the guest anchorage in the turning basin at Newport Beach, Ca. you cannot leave. Of course if you start to drag you are going to hit something with many $$$$ signs attached. In this case you would call the harbor master and inquire about the rules relating to anchoring.


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## centaursailor (Nov 7, 2010)

You might also need to concider your insurers views on leaving the boat unattended at anchor.
Regards,
Brian


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

Vasco answered the first question. You can leacve someon board if you want to be a prisoner to the boat. Every place will be different, and your best insurance is your groundtackle itself..........*i2f*


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## BenMP (Oct 19, 2010)

Thanks for the info.

So if I anchor 1/4 off the SoCal coast and come ashore in the dinghy to visit relatives for several days, what are the chances of the boat getting towed?
are guest slips/moorings the way to go?


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

Boat getting towed!!??  

What & why would a boat get towed if at anchor ? of course one wouldn't anchor in anywhere one shouldn't .

I would like to know an answer to this also as I plan to do a lot of anchoring up and down the west coast .

personally I don't have a lot of marina money , retired on fixed income.


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## skipgundlach (Oct 4, 2002)

Methinks there are way too many variables to give any single answer. Personally, I'm uncomfortable leaving our home anchored anywhere overnight. Too many possibilities for mischief or misfortune.

However, we routinely leave it for a long day ashore (into the night, frequently, but rarely very late, more a product of the sort of folks we are than for concern). That said, we also monitor the weather very closely, and if we're the least bit worried, would cut whatever we're doing short and go back.

Another rule of thumb I use is that anchor chain does me no good in the locker. My personal minimum, other than for an on-board lunch-hook type situation, is 7-1 scope, IN THE WATER (we have markers on our chain to guide me), including allowing for tide range and the 5' our anchor rollers are above the water. Thus, here, in 10' at high tide (plus the bow roller height), I have 125' in the water in our protected location.

Given that our measure is ITW (see above) chain, even if it goes pretty tight in a big blow, we'll still have 7-1 due to the added 15-20' of chain between the roller and the water when it's stretched. If we're going to see 20 knots or better, I increase that to 10-1, and if it's REALLY expecting to blow (half-gale, say), if the holding, based on my prior experience, is excellent, I'll go to 15 or more to 1. If I'm the least suspicious of the holding, I'll put out our second anchor on a similar scope.

Our primary, for our 40,000# (fully provisioned, fueled and watered) boat is a Delta 55. Our secondary is a CQR 75. The Delta has been described as monstrous overkill by a very experienced mariner, but I'd much rather have too much than too little. "All chain" rode has a very salutary effect as well, as ours weighs just a smidgen over a pound a foot.

If things got really sticky, I'd tandem rig with our Danforths ahead of these. Both the Delta and CQR have holes at the shank tip for attaching either a buoy (for location, or if you had to, to free a foul) or a chain. Putting about 20' of chain out in front, with a Danforth, will assure a VERY deep pull, as the heavy primary anchor will act as a kellet for the Danforth. Even if the primary drags, the Danforth will still be on the ground. The catenary of the long chain, of course, serves the same purpose for the primary, but if you got a truly strong blow, even 300' of chain will straighten out, perhaps enough to get the shank off the bottom, enhancing the possibility for the anchor to dislodge.

HTH

L8R

Skip

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## Craig Smith (Jun 21, 2006)

Skip there are a number of errors throughout your post. While I'm sure newbies appreciate the comprehensive response, it would help to deal with some of the inaccuracies.



skipgundlach said:


> Given that our measure is ITW (see above) chain, even if it goes pretty tight in a big blow, we'll still have 7-1 due to the added 15-20' of chain between the roller and the water when it's stretched. If we're going to see 20 knots or better, I increase that to 10-1, and if it's REALLY expecting to blow (half-gale, say), if the holding, based on my prior experience, is excellent, I'll go to 15 or more to 1.


There is very little point in scopes much about 8:1. At this point the minimum angle of pull is 7 degrees, and it takes double the scope to halve the angle (i.e. a ridiculous length to gain a few degrees). You are well beyond the point where the weight of the extra rode deployed would be far better spent on the anchor - i.e. if you're anchor's not holding at 8:1 it ain't big enough. More scope becomes a ludicrous use of weight, in terms of a resource, and a good way to annoy any other boats around you.



skipgundlach said:


> Our primary, for our 40,000# (fully provisioned, fueled and watered) boat is a Delta 55. Our secondary is a CQR 75. The Delta has been described as monstrous overkill by a very experienced mariner, but I'd much rather have too much than too little.


I don't think that's overkill. It depends on more than the boat's displacement of course. Any Delta can be replaced by a more efficient modern anchor of around 75% the size, and the CQR replaced by the same of around 50% the size, for equivalent holding performance. The latter particularly is a horribly outdated piece of 1930s legacy that has no place anywhere other than the lawn as an ornament.



skipgundlach said:


> If things got really sticky, I'd tandem rig with our Danforths ahead of these.


This is a good way to ensure things do get sticky.



skipgundlach said:


> Both the Delta and CQR have holes at the shank tip for attaching either a buoy (for location, or if you had to, to free a foul) or a chain.


No, they don't. The attachment points on these anchors are for retrieval lines, one would think it somewhat obvious from the intent of "retrieval" that it would be _very _silly to go attaching a tandem to them. Tandem attachment points must be correctly located to avoid unbalancing the anchor; if you attach a tandem to the trip line attachment points of either a CQR or Delta you _will _trip it (funnily enough) when it comes under sufficient loading.



skipgundlach said:


> Putting about 20' of chain out in front, with a Danforth, will assure a VERY deep pull, as the heavy primary anchor will act as a kellet for the Danforth.


I don't recommend using a Danforth as a tandem anchor. They do not set reliably enough.
The notion of the primary becoming a kellet is something of a circular argument. Forces requiring tandems will raise any 'kellet' to the line of the rode, kellets are conceptually useless in this scenario. The primary will either resist the vertical loading, or not, in which case the system will fail.

www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/tandem-anchoring.php



skipgundlach said:


> Even if the primary drags, the Danforth will still be on the ground. The catenary of the long chain, of course, serves the same purpose for the primary, but if you got a truly strong blow, even 300' of chain will straighten out, perhaps enough to get the shank off the bottom, enhancing the possibility for the anchor to dislodge.


This notion of "the shank getting off the bottom" is incorrect, a set anchor has no idea where the plane of the seabed is and whether it's parallel to it. The only issue is the amount of vertical loading in the rode at the anchor. The anchor will either hold, or not, depending on whether it is well set or can simply pull up and out. Catenary is effectively not present in severe conditions and the only way of reducing that lifting force is scope, see above.

www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/catenary.php


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## St Anna (Mar 15, 2003)

Thanks Craig.
I have always gone with a heavier anchor and good scope idea rather than the light anchor and overweight chain. Your article was a good read.

I used to use a SS bruce, but found teh holding, although superior in finer ground material, was less effectice in coral/course areas. 

I then went to an oversized Manson Plough which has held in some nasty conditions on types of ground. Now I have twin Manson Plough setups with independant chains. I can set together if I wish (never needed to) or even join chain if need be. The main one I use is chain 12 months old, tested (cant remember the maker but Italian name starting with S in Brisbane) 

Incidently, I bought these ploughs years ago, before Rocna was well known. I do have a ss shackle joining anchor to chain and have not yet been able to find in my travels, a heavy duty tested galv shackle. I dont like the ss shackle as I know it is the weak point. I dont have a swivel in the system.


David


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

Thanks all !


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Why aren't you using a Galvanized Crosby Load-Rated Shackle???



St Anna said:


> Thanks Craig.
> I have always gone with a heavier anchor and good scope idea rather than the light anchor and overweight chain. Your article was a good read.
> 
> I used to use a SS bruce, but found teh holding, although superior in finer ground material, was less effectice in coral/course areas.
> ...


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Ben, check the Coast Pilot and your local charts. For instance, in some parts of the Northeast there are "special anchorages" and "general anchorages". In one you will answer to a harbormaster of some kind, in the other you will be required to keep a radio watch and use anchor light at night. Outside of designated anchorages, you're often free to do as you please--except, not come within 1000 yards of state beaches. Or not anchor in designated ship channels, at all, ever.
There are all sorts of local, state, and federal regulations and you need to find out which, if any, apply locally.

As to the security of anchoring and abandoning ship...that's a question of how much you know about the bottom, your ground tackle (if you can lift it, it probabaly is too light<G>), and the upcoming weather. After all, you want to know you can get back onto the boat before severe weather comes in, too. Personally? If a boat is anchored, as opposed to docked or moored, I'm happier if there's an anchor watch on board. I just don't trust moving parts under water--and that includes anchors.


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## Craig Smith (Jun 21, 2006)

St Anna said:


> Thanks Craig.
> ...
> I used to use a SS bruce, but found teh holding, although superior in finer ground material, was less effectice in coral/course areas.


Superior to what? There's little a Bruce will hold more than. It was an improvement to the CQR at the time in terms of setting reliability and versatility, but that's not saying much.
Further, I don't believe there was ever any such thing as a stainless steel Bruce. They never made the genuine Bruce in stainless. The vast majority of Bruce knock-offs are absolute rubbish, and I've never seen a quality stainless steel version - always cheap junk.



St Anna said:


> I then went to an oversized Manson Plough which has held in some nasty conditions on types of ground. Now I have twin Manson Plough setups with independant chains. I can set together if I wish (never needed to)


CQRs are indisputably poor anchors, and those who know me will know I don't have a very high opinion of Manson. They are imitators, and their plows are no exception to the rule that knock-offs are universally worse than the genuine articles. Have a look at these photos of a genuine CQR and a Manson copy on sand:
http://www.rocna.com/distributable/cqr_manson_rocna_testing.pdf

www.rocna.com/kb/Old_generation_anchors

Re multiple anchors, that is a whole other topic... generally deploying two separate rodes (in a V) is inefficient and won't improve the ultimate holding power of the system much above that of one... tandems are feasible but very complex and fraught with problems. I would never use plows in tandem - but then I'd never use a plow at all, so go figure. Essentially, if you're finding the need to use tandems, your primary anchor is not adequate.



St Anna said:


> I do have a ss shackle joining anchor to chain and have not yet been able to find in my travels, a heavy duty tested galv shackle.


That shouldn't necessarily be an issue, in destruction testing in YBW they concluded based on the cheap samples available from UK chandleries that stainless shackles were invariably stronger than galvanized 

There's nothing wrong with quality stainless shackles. Wichard et al. As with all things stainless, just don't use cheap junk. You get what you pay for.

The ultimate galvanized shackles are from the likes of Crosby and Van Beest, not to be exclusive w.r.t. brands, typically intended for lifting, in high tensile grades usually with colored pins. They should be easily available if you want one, order online depending on where you are.

www.rocna.com/kb/Shackles


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## St Anna (Mar 15, 2003)

Thanks for the response Craig. 

Its just my experiences anchoring . I have lived on the hook in various parts of the coral coast for a number of years. 

Your comparison of the 3 types - are they the same weight?

I went for a 60lb manson on a 36' van de stadt. It worked! I would be happy to try a rocna on the current boat and may consider it when I need to change one of the mansons. 

As for the "multiple anchors' bit. I have the ability to set two, but have not and was not intending to set in tandem V.

The 12mm coloured pin does not fit through the end link of chain.


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## Craig Smith (Jun 21, 2006)

I don't know what size chain you have so can't help you. But the shackle should always be the largest the pin of which will fit through the chain... a high load galv shackle so sized will be much stronger than G40 chain.


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## roadranger (Dec 1, 2009)

Good Advise. In the USCG we teach that 7:1 is the minimum scope to use in average wind and sea. Also, I personally recommend using all chain instead of a stranded line, for a few reasons-- chain is less likely to snap (I've never seen it, but it could happen to a very corroded chain); it helps the anchor get, AND KEEP, a good set in strong blows; and it is very secure against thieves and vandals who might be tempted to cut your line. You can use a padlock to secure your chain to your boat (use a separate, short piece of chain like a snuffer). You might consider that even the most draconian of law enforcers would try to avoid towing a well secured, chain anchored and padlocked boat. They would be much more likely to just get hold of you and tell YOU to move it.

I won't give you any advise about which type of anchor to use. It greatly depends on the bottom-type so I would advise having a few from which to choose, and them familiarize yourself with the proper combinations of anchors/bottom types.

To be Continued in next reply.....


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## roadranger (Dec 1, 2009)

Continued, with a slight change of focus.....

In the previous reply I mentioned that, "even the most draconian of law enforcers would try to avoid towing a well secured, chain anchored and padlocked boat." 
You might wonder WHY a law enforcement agent might WANT to tow your boat. In short, they don't! Usually what happens is that the local constabulary gets complaints from "concerned" home-owners who are uncomfortable having a boat (or boats) anchored in their neighborhood. Some have fears about the unknowns of strangers right outside their back windows. Others are concerned about the boat's waste-water and where it might be going. And, of course, some are concerned about their view (pretty boats get fewer complaints, you know). Even though a boater may be well within his rights anchoring 150 yards from Mrs. Grundy's sea wall, the smart boater will NEVER overstay his welcome. Here's why: 
Mrs. Grundy and her neighbors constitute a voting block. That is to say, when enough of them (homeowners) go to neighborhood and council meetings and complain, they have the influence to change the local anchoring laws and take our rights away. Whether justified or not, these homeowners' concerns about anchored boats can easily become the basis of government policy changes. As the boater in question, you have no sway over local politics... because you are not a local taxpayer.
So, when you are planning to stay for a while, make friends with the locals. Tell them how long you are planning to stay and don't stay a day longer (except for weather). Don't use their back yards to come ashore (unless you have been invited to do so). And never, ever, dump a drop of waste into the water, even if you can get away with it. It is wrong and it justifies the Mrs. Grundys' concerns.

More unsolicited anchoring advise in the next reply....


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

Thank you roadranger exactly my view of the situation ... just do the right thing .


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## BenMP (Oct 19, 2010)

Thanks for all the great replies.


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