# Take Your Shoes Off in the Cabin



## CaptTony (May 22, 2011)

I recently spent a couple of weeks in the Windward Islands on a really nice Odyssey 49. I was there to help the owner who was a very nice gentleman. It was an interesting experience and maybe a topic for another post. My question here is simple and brief. 

As a boat owner, do you require crew and guests to remove their footwear regardless of what it is?

As a crew member or guest, have you been on a boat where you were required to remove your footwear? 

In 40 years of sailing, I've never been asked to do it. I have always believed wearing shoes, especially underway, is a safety mandate. Needless to say, the owner of the Odyssey 49 eventually asked that I remove my shoes below deck. Before that he spread a sheet on the cabin floor for me to step on and the sheet remained even after I started taking off my shoes (try not slipping on a sheet covering a wood floor).

So, please, clue me in on this. Is it normal?


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

He's the owner and can make his own rules. While I always go barefoot (and paid the price by breaking toes on two occasions) I will let visitor wear boat shoes on deck but request that they go barefoot below. It saves on wear and tear plus keeps things easier to clean. It helps that the boat is in the tropics, it is a different matter in cold weather.


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## CaptTony (May 22, 2011)

Zanshin said:


> He's the owner and can make his own rules. While I always go barefoot (and paid the price by breaking toes on two occasions) I will let visitor wear boat shoes on deck but request that they go barefoot below. It saves on wear and tear plus keeps things easier to clean. It helps that the boat is in the tropics, it is a different matter in cold weather.


I'm not disputing whether or not the owner can make rules. I just never heard of that one (remove shoes) and was wondering how prevalent it is.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Cuts down on tracking salt and other dirt below. Very common.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

When we visit our Caribbean Cruising friends no shore-worn footwear is permitted on deck or below, and everyone goes barefoot. In the tropics and with a good deck surface I think that's fine.

We do not insist, nor ask that people remove footwear on our own boat, above or below, but we prefer to be barefoot when conditions are appropriate. We believe that overall it's better that if anyone is barefoot, all should be, esp on a smaller boat where getting accidentally stepped on is more likely. 

We do insist on non-marking soles and carry "shore shoes" for hikes and walks.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

I used to have a next door neighbor who was Asian (Vietnamese) and none of them wore shoes in their house and asked you to do the same when visiting. 

It probably does make keeping a house or boat clean, a lot easier.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I try not to wear shoes below on my boat in the summer. I wear shoes on deck, or in the cockpit. I ask that guests do likewise. Frequently, however, I forget.

For winter maintenance, I put cardboard down on the cabin soule.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

We don't wear shoes in our house, and ask guests to remove their's. But in that environment, you're going from the gritty, oily, etc., outdoors directly to my beautiful hardwood floor and expensive rugs. Why mess 'em up? 

On the boat? Shoes are fine. Of course, only boat shoes are allowed on the boat. 

Our Catalina has the vinyl sole that looks like a wood floor. Good looking floor, and we have a nice rug on it. 

Sounds like a real pain in the butt to have to remove your shoes to go below, and IMO it makes a lot more sense to have a floor that accommodates boat shoes, than to have guests (and yourself) accommodate your floor. 

I'd stay off any boat where I'm required to remove my shoes when below. 

Think about it, by the time you walk down the dock, and spend any amount of time on the boat, anything harmful on the bottom of your shoes is gone. Or hell, just rinse 'em off. Jeeesh. 

Anal retentive, OCD if you ask me. And, you did.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

CaptTony said:


> . I just never heard of that one (remove shoes) and was wondering how prevalent it is.


Extremely prevalent. In fact I would think most boats require you to take shoes off unless racing.

Even on, or especially, superyachts.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

First I've heard of someone insisting on shoes being removed, but then I sail in fresh water and more northerly. Few people up here go without shoes, and I've never heard of an owner demanding it. Certainly you should change from shore shoes to proper non-marking deck shoes when you come on board, but no shoes? Never heard of it up here.

Sounds a bit like the old Italian neighbours we had growing up. All their furniture was covered in plastic so as to keep it perpetually pristine.


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## sailak (Apr 15, 2007)

Not warm enough here to go without shoes.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

CaptTony said:


> I'm not disputing whether or not the owner can make rules. I just never heard of that one (remove shoes) and was wondering how prevalent it is.


I tend to go barefoot in warmer temperatures. Though I do slip into "boat shoes" when needed. These are shoes that have never been used on land and never will. I take off my land shoes as soon as enter the cockpit. I don't often have guests on board but, I don't ask them to take their shoes off before coming on board. Since they are usually just sitting in the cockpit and I have dri deck covering the sole.

I have been on a schooner where we were required to leave our land shoes in a basket on the dock and I think we had to have boat shoes on board.

Back in 1999 I was living on board in New York. Rupert Murdoch pulled his 150 foot yacht Morning Glory in front of my boat and had his wedding reception on board his boat. I watched as probably 100+ "movers and shakers" of business and the media arrive for the event. They were instructed to remove their shoes. Though he did provide slippers with the boats name printed on them. I even got a pair.  I was impressed that he cared for the boat enough to not let all these folks scratch up the boat while partying on the deck.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Boat shoes are fine with us; high heels really aren't. Our boat is our home and the home of anyone who is sailing with us, so whatever is most comfortable for them, is just fine with us.
For the wife and I, the shoes come off in the dink and don't go back on until we're headed for shore again. I just can't see any reason to wear shoes aboard a yacht in the tropics. I'm more comfortable and feel safer in bare feet.
I've got my Dubarries if it's a cold day in hell, uh sorry, paradise.


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## Jim_W (Jul 27, 2014)

put on your sailing shoes - Bing Videos
boat shoes here


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## CaptTony (May 22, 2011)

So far it looks like we have a split decision on the question; although one thing is coming through loud and clear. In the tropics, which is where I do most of my sailing, take 'em off.

Again, I have always worn shoes when sailing and insisted crew do the same as a safety measure when underway. I guess I'm going to have to rethink that. Anyway, I'm not going to call myself inconsiderate and clueless yet (you can if you want). Maybe we'll get some more answers.

One reply that I did enjoy was this one. Not sure how this will fly considering some of the responses, but it sure makes sense.



Siamese said:


> Think about it, by the time you walk down the dock, and spend any amount of time on the boat, anything harmful on the bottom of your shoes is gone. Or hell, just rinse 'em off. Jeeesh.
> 
> Anal retentive, OCD if you ask me. And, you did.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

I prefer to have shoes off below decks when we are not underway. Underway the boat shoes are fine as I feel it's safer and most people just duck down to use the head or grab something and come back up.

I also prefer that people spending time (as in a weekend or more) on my boat have a dedicated set of boat shoes and land shoes. The place just stays so much cleaner.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

We dinghy off a sandy beach. Everyone rinses the sand and sand off their feet with the transom shower, while standing on the sugar-scoop stern. Sand gets everywhere if you don't purposely keep it out. We have an inverter and shop vac, but who wants to vacuum in paradise? (Once you have a 120v shop vac on board, you can drink out of real glass!)

Shoes are ok. But we all prefer barefoot. When winter sailing, anything's fine. I can get scuff marks out, if any appear, and boots keep feet warm.

Our cabin soles are made out of formica that looks like teak and holly. 

Regards,
Brad


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I prefer not to wear shoes on board though I do wear something when sailing cos I got sick and tired of the stubbed toes. At anchor nothing. In winter NZ Possum socks. Perfection. 

As for guests, they usually stay in the cockpit so not an issue but down below I'll leave it up to them though when they see us leaving our shoes on the side deck they usually do the same.


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## Erindipity (Nov 29, 2014)

Oh, how silly.
I rarely wear shoes onboard; I have rather talented and sometimes useful toes.
But I would _never_ dictate what shoes guests choose to wear or not wear.
(Oh my goodness- he has bare feet! Engage Fungicide!)

It's only wood and fiberglass below toe; both surfaces are easily cleaned.
I have never had a Guest or Crew drag their feet through road tar and then gravel before climbing aboard...
And neither have any of you.

¬Erindipity


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

We have a no shoe policy unless extenuating circumstances exist. Even boat shoes worn to the boat would have tramped though the car park, and every car park has oil, the heat in Oz also melts tar and I have had tar on the non skid, look at the bottom of your own foot wear and you will find stones grit gum and who knows what else did your guests visit the public test room before coming aboard. Barefoot is best or boat shoes that don't leave the boat.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

We are full time liveaboard/cruisers. After a couple of broken toes when underway boat shoes must be worn. Even if someone goes below when underway wear the shoes. However, once at anchor or tied up no shoes please and especially down below.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Siamese said:


> We don't wear shoes in our house, and ask guests to remove their's.  But in that environment, you're going from the gritty, oily, etc., outdoors directly to my beautiful hardwood floor and expensive rugs. Why mess 'em up?


My attitude, and that of most of my clients, is much the same.

I strongly agree with wearing shoes on deck, especially underway. That is both a safety policy and part of keeping the inside of the boat clean. Allowing salt to be tracked below is a spiral toward dirt, dampness, mildew, and increased cleaning requirements. We do keep mats at the base of the companionway so people can use the heads without removing shoes - yet another reason why good interior design mandates a head at the base of the companionway.

Janet really needs good arch support so she has "inside" shoes and "outside" shoes. I just take my deck shoes off below and walk barefoot or with socks.

Going barefoot all the time doesn't solve the problem as bare feet track salt and other debris below as easily as shoes.



Siamese said:


> I'd stay off any boat where I'm required to remove my shoes when below.


You're going to miss a lot of cool opportunities.



Siamese said:


> Think about it, by the time you walk down the dock, and spend any amount of time on the boat, anything harmful on the bottom of your shoes is gone. Or hell, just rinse 'em off.


Salt, anything dripping from cargo hauled up and down the dock, droppings from birds and other animals, and all sorts of other unfortunate material is on the dock. As noted elsewhere parking lots/car parks can leave very unpleasant things on ones feet.



Bene505 said:


> We dinghy off a sandy beach.


Managing sand is a whole other thing. We do our best to keep sand out of the dinghy (feet/shoe rinsing in the water at the beach) but it is impossible to be perfect. Clean again between dinghy and boat - including any containers and bags (it pays to attend to where you put bags down if the bags are going aboard as bags will inevitably end up on furniture and counters).

As noted elsewhere - the boat is our home. It isn't some cabin on the beach. It's our home.



Bene505 said:


> We have an inverter and shop vac, but who wants to vacuum in paradise?


Agreed and then some. We carry a real canister vacuum for carpets and furniture and a wet/dry shop vac for projects and repairs.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Who wears shoes?


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

It depends on how ugly your feet are. I only allow pretty feet to go naked.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

It has seemed to me over the years that the fancier ones boat the less it can handle shoes walking on it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Our policy is that you must wear non-marking shoes, if you wear them at all. Otherwise, fielder's choice. We have an RV central vacuum system, so I don't worry to much about dirty dust below.  (installed by PO and has become one of those things I would have never done on my own and can't live without now)

For me, I prefer to be barefoot, but it's not always practical. I do believe the theory that you will feel you are about to lose footing more easily when barefoot, then with shoes, and be able to head it off. I think it's debatable, however, which will actually lose footing first. There are three circumstances, where I wear shoes. First, cooler weather, which is spring and fall around here. Second, heavy healing combined with substantial boat movement. Healing alone, in warm weather, I prefer barefoot. But, if the boat is slopping around, that's toe stubbing certainty. I always keep my shoes in the cockpit, so they are available if conditions warrant. Third, I ALWAYS wear them when docking.

As for other boats, I've seen every version. The heavy leaning is toward no shoes, so I always assume that. I'm the kind of stuffy sailor that always asks for permission to come aboard anyway, whether from the dock or dinghy. Just a friendly gesture, but it gets me the opportunity to say "shoes?" 

The seriously OCD boat owners typically leave you a sign. Their shoes are on the dock, by their lifegate, or near wherever you board. No need to guess. Follow the leader. However, I do wonder if their OCD has processed the number of people with athletes foot. 

This is my fav shoe story. My 20 something step son is aboard for the weekend, with his non-boater girlfriend. We have guest notes that we send in advance to help with packing, so she's good. We sailed to an anchorage and planned to go to shore for dinner. Everyone showered and changed. I didn't see her getting ready, but knew we were close, so I got in the dingy to fire up and hold it's side against the bottom of our transom steps to make boarding easier. I look up and see she is standing in the teak cockpit, wearing high spiked dress shoes that laced half way up her calf. Thank god my wife dealt with that one, I was speechless.


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## MikeGuyver (Dec 13, 2008)

To each their own. When I was in Uncle Sam's Yacht club, we were required to wear some kind of footwear at all times aboard ship to control the nasties like athlete's foot and a few other insidious diseases and parasites. I would rather sweep the cabin sole and hose the deck daily than deal with contagious foot maladies. And throw rugs on a sailboat is just asking for trouble. That's just my opinion...I didn't buy a boat to keep nice for the next owner to enjoy.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Wearing proper deck shoes vs barefeet on deck is a personal choice. My balance is poor so I value good footwear, but if you want to go barefooted, that's fine with me.

We definitely have shore shoes and deck shoes, and will switch as necessary. I'm not anal about guests. If I've invited them to my home, I want them to be comfortable. Most people will be respectful of our home, and will either clean their shoes, or take them off. I don't think I've ever had to instruct anyone other than young children. 

I see my boat as a thing to be used, not something to be pampered. That doesn't mean abusing it, but it does mean not getting too worried about a bit of dirt here, or a scuff there. Clean it, or buff it out. Basic living maintenance.

P.S. But definitely no spiked heels allowed .


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I've only been aboard one boat where the owner required you to take off your shoes before entering the main salon. On deck, there was never a problem, but his 75-foot motor yacht's interior was covered with snow-white, plush, deep pile carpeting. It was absolutely beautiful, but very high maintenance. The carpeting was his wife's idea - not his. The carpet was cleaned weekly with a steam cleaner, but the decks were scrubbed daily by one of the deck hands.

Cheers,

Gary


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

CaptTony said:


> Needless to say, the owner of the Odyssey 49 eventually asked that I remove my shoes below deck. Before that he spread a sheet on the cabin floor for me to step on and the sheet remained even after I started taking off my shoes (try not slipping on a sheet covering a wood floor).
> 
> So, please, clue me in on this. Is it normal?


Sounds anal to me. I doubt I'd return.  I've been on a few boats where I just followed suit and removed shoes, but it's very rare.

On our boat, just like our house, we tell guests to wipe your feet on the way out. We don't have many rules and have guests for fun.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Bizarre to be so strict. Sounds like they don't like guests or have OCD. I would head the other direction. I generally feel the same about no-shoes homes, with certain cultural exceptions.

... I though this was a bit much. But I allowed it. And guess what--it did no harm.


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

Here's a (true) story: 

I invited my old friend to spend the night on the boat. He asked if the wife could come so I said sure. They show up and have their little dog with them. Uhhh…. She looks at me and goes on about how they couldn't leave little fido alone all weekend. Quick decision time. OK, I figure, what the Hell. So we go for a sail and have a nice time. We pull into the guest dock for a nice resturaunt. I've got the boat nicely tied up and we're ready to go eat when she comes up from the cabin carrying her little dog in a miniskirt and spike high heals. I know that you guys could have handled it better, but I was literally speachless. She starts to step down off the boat before I can do anything and losses her balance! Her husband grabs the dog and leaves her out of balance half on - half off the boat. Then he drops the dog into the water. The wife is on the way down, so I do the only thing I can do, I rush over to her and pin her with a full body hug against the side of the boat, and lower her onto the dock. The husband is pulling the dog out of the drink. All this happened in a split second. We dried off the dog, and left him below, went to dinner and then spent the night. Haven't seen them since.

By the way, boat shoes, please. Bare feet OK, not required. No dogs.


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## SJ34 (Jul 30, 2008)

We're in socal, steps from the beach where tar balls wash up occasionally (naturally occurring). We keep a can of acetone in a cockpit locker to clean feet. Comes off shoes easily, bare feet not so much.

Sailboats are a light industrial environment, I prefer shoes are worn (non marking) but don't require them.


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## svandante (Jun 27, 2012)

I just had to jump in here....It's been my experience that those boats in the tropics who asked or required folks to leave their street shoes on the dock or above decks had significantly less risk of getting cockroaches on their boats due to roach eggs being tracked below on their visitors shoes soles. Commonly picked up from stepping on a dead roach somewhere ashore. I think that we cold water northern sailors rarely think about gettings these vile things aboard, or at least I did. We also made it a strict policy to never bring any cardboard below due to the strong possibly of cockroach eggs having been laid in the paper corrugations. Yuk!


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Scotty C-M said:


> Here's a (true) story:
> 
> I invited my old friend to spend the night on the boat. He asked if the wife could come so I said sure. They show up and have their little dog with them. Uhhh&#8230;. She looks at me and goes on about how they couldn't leave little fido alone all weekend. Quick decision time. OK, I figure, what the Hell. So we go for a sail and have a nice time. We pull into the guest dock for a nice resturaunt. I've got the boat nicely tied up and we're ready to go eat when she comes up from the cabin carrying her little dog in a miniskirt and spike high heals. I know that you guys could have handled it better, but I was literally speachless. She starts to step down off the boat before I can do anything and losses her balance! Her husband grabs the dog and leaves her out of balance half on - half off the boat. Then he drops the dog into the water. The wife is on the way down, so I do the only thing I can do, I rush over to her and pin her with a full body hug against the side of the boat, and lower her onto the dock. The husband is pulling the dog out of the drink. All this happened in a split second. We dried off the dog, and left him below, went to dinner and then spent the night. Haven't seen them since.
> 
> By the way, boat shoes, please. Bare feet OK, not required. No dogs.


I'll hazard a guess that he will not get a second invite...

I doubt that I would have handled it better. I probably would have let her fall in.


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

No second invite.


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

Scotty C-M said:


> I've got the boat nicely tied up and we're ready to go eat when she comes up from the cabin carrying her little dog in a miniskirt and spike high heals. .


That would have done it for me right there. I can't stand anyone who puts clothes on a dog, much less someone who makes a dog wear a miniskirt and spiked heels. That's abuse.

Barry


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## Dutch (Feb 23, 2015)

I have enough rules to follow at home,one rule on the boat;non marking footwear.


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

I've only ever been asked once to remove my shoes on a boat I was boarding to to free a frozen through hull . I politely declined & moved on to my next endeavor of the day . At some point they found out I was the only game in town & called me a second time & asked me to come back & please hurry as we're trying to leave . I told them .....politely ....I would put their name back on the list . I ended up going back first thing the next morning & imagine my surprise when they asked me again to remove my shoes . Late in the afternoon they called me a third time & all but begged me to come back & had a long sad story about not being able to sail with the head not functioning . I put on a pair of black lug soled logging boots & went back , freed the through hull in about 5 minutes & charged them $150.00 instead of the $25 dollars I would have charged them . I hope they got the message . What a bunch of low bred ignorant ill mannered shoe clerk sons a bitches .


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

kjango said:


> I've only ever been asked once to remove my shoes on a boat I was boarding to to free a frozen through hull . I politely declined & moved on to my next endeavor of the day . At some point they found out I was the only game in town & called me a second time & asked me to come back & please hurry as we're trying to leave . I told them .....politely ....I would put their name back on the list . I ended up going back first thing the next morning & imagine my surprise when they asked me again to remove my shoes . Late in the afternoon they called me a third time & all but begged me to come back & had a long sad story about not being able to sail with the head not functioning . I put on a pair of black lug soled logging boots & went back , freed the through hull in about 5 minutes & charged them $150.00 instead of the $25 dollars I would have charged them . I hope they got the message . What a bunch of low bred ignorant ill mannered shoe clerk sons a bitches .


I guess I don't understand. During the few times I've had to give up and "call in the cavalry" at home because I couldn't repair a hot water heater, furnace, or other appliance (I'm not bad at that stuff, so it happens rarely, but it does happen), virtually EVERY repair person ALWAYS offers to slip on paper slippers or some form of covering prior to setting foot in my house. I don't demand it, ask for it, or even expect it.. they just offer. Usually, I tell them it's not necessary, but many are more comfortable doing it because they respect my property.

I'm not trying to be argumentative.. I just don't understand why you took such offense to their request, and I don't get why it makes them "low bred ignorant ill mannered shoe clerk sons a bitches." I'm more than willing to listen and learn...

Barry


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

kjango said:


> I've only ever been asked once to remove my shoes on a boat I was boarding to to free a frozen through hull . I politely declined & moved on to my next endeavor of the day . At some point they found out I was the only game in town & called me a second time & asked me to come back & please hurry as we're trying to leave . I told them .....politely ....I would put their name back on the list . I ended up going back first thing the next morning & imagine my surprise when they asked me again to remove my shoes . Late in the afternoon they called me a third time & all but begged me to come back & had a long sad story about not being able to sail with the head not functioning . I put on a pair of black lug soled logging boots & went back , freed the through hull in about 5 minutes & charged them $150.00 instead of the $25 dollars I would have charged them . I hope they got the message . What a bunch of low bred ignorant ill mannered shoe clerk sons a bitches .


Personal Attack removed per forum rules: Jeff_H, SailNet moderator


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

Hmm... I must be lost and wandered over to SA by accident.. I thought this was SailNet. My bad. Hope everything's OK at home, Kjango. Feel better soon.

Barry


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

kjango said:


> I've only ever been asked once to remove my shoes on a boat I was boarding to to free a frozen through hull . I politely declined & moved on to my next endeavor of the day . At some point they found out I was the only game in town & called me a second time & asked me to come back & please hurry as we're trying to leave . I told them .....politely ....I would put their name back on the list . I ended up going back first thing the next morning & imagine my surprise when they asked me again to remove my shoes . Late in the afternoon they called me a third time & all but begged me to come back & had a long sad story about not being able to sail with the head not functioning . I put on a pair of black lug soled logging boots & went back , freed the through hull in about 5 minutes & charged them $150.00 instead of the $25 dollars I would have charged them . I hope they got the message . What a bunch of low bred ignorant ill mannered shoe clerk sons a bitches .


If I replied to your post in the manner that I would most like, I would be forced to then ban myself for abuse and foul language.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

End of another loooong winter in the northern hemisphere. I've seen behavior like this in a couple of threads. Everyone is a little touchy. Everyone will settle down in June.


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

You guys are right of course . What could I possibly have better to do then running back & forth accommodating someone's unrealistic expectations & lack of common consideration.......my bad


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

kjango said:


> You guys are right of course . What could I possibly have better to do then running back & forth accommodating someone's unrealistic expectations & lack of common consideration.......my bad


You talking about yourself?????????????????


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

kjango said:


> .....At some point they found out I was the only game in town......


Try your approach with some competition and let us know how you make out.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

When I go on someone else's boat and I am going below I automatically remove my shoes. I'm either told it's ok, I don't have to or not. I'm OK either way and I don't stress out over it.

It never crossed my mind to ask someone who is doing work on our boat to remove his or her shoes first.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

kjango said:


> I've only ever been asked once to remove my shoes on a boat I was boarding to to free a frozen through hull . I politely declined & moved on to my next endeavor of the day . At some point they found out I was the only game in town & called me a second time & asked me to come back & please hurry as we're trying to leave . I told them .....politely ....I would put their name back on the list . I ended up going back first thing the next morning & imagine my surprise when they asked me again to remove my shoes . Late in the afternoon they called me a third time & all but begged me to come back & had a long sad story about not being able to sail with the head not functioning . I put on a pair of black lug soled logging boots & went back , freed the through hull in about 5 minutes & charged them $150.00 instead of the $25 dollars I would have charged them . I hope they got the message . What a bunch of low bred ignorant ill mannered shoe clerk sons a bitches .


I bet you wonder why you never get invited to parties.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

DRFerron said:


> ....It never crossed my mind to ask someone who is doing work on our boat to remove his or her shoes first.


Have you ever had teak sides decks or cockpit sole? I should dig up the picture I have of a very notable vibram footprint ground into my side deck.

It was clear what happened. You have to duck under the bimini to climb into the cockpit, which then requires you twist your footing on the side deck. That boot left a heart breaking mark that removed part of the soft exterior of the wood.


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## rugosa (Aug 30, 2011)

kjango said:


> What could I possibly have better to do then running back & forth accommodating someone's unrealistic expectations & lack of common consideration.......my bad


Yeah, you got it, THEY have no respect for you.:laugher:laugher:laugher


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

TomMaine said:


> On our boat, just like our house, we tell guests to wipe your feet on the way out. We don't have many rules and have guests for fun.


"Wipe your feet on the way out":laugher

I love it! I'm going to use that one.


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

Interesting perspectives . First off , I live on a boat so I understand boat issues . Secondly , the first two times I visited subject boat I was wearing wellingtons with soft white soles that don't leave marks . Thirdly , I wasn't a guest on the boat , I was there at the owners request to make a repair . And I truly do have better things to do with my time . If you don't get it & believe me to be wrong , imagine my relief that I don't know you . The personal remarks about me ???? Ask me if I care . When I leave my boat & what I'm doing to go to your boat at your request to do a repair.....spare me your personal dress code & any other weird notions you may have .


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## blutoyz (Oct 28, 2012)

Once my white thingy in the middle is up I lose the shoes...that's just how I roll. Any guest can do whatever they want with theirs...I guess it depends on how they roll


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

kjango said:


> And I truly do have better things to do with my time .


What, than take of your shoes ? Poor baby. If it so damn difficult for you to slip of a pair of wellies how in gods name do you cope with shoe laces ?

Attitude. God save me from people with attitude .... on the internet of course.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

I would never ask a tradesman to take off his shoes and work barefoot. He's working and a stubbed toe or dropped tool might mean loss of income for a day or more.

That being said, my marina is dirty. Little stones, dirt, etc get wedged in the tread of boat and running shoes. There is all sorts of crap (pun intended) on marina restroom floors. birds crap on docks and decks.

I don't wear my shoes in my house or down below on my boat. It's a personal preference. It means I spend less time cleaning and more time enjoying life...some people like to clean, I do not. Washing floors is right up there on my list with varnishing and jabbing myself in the eyeball with a plastic fork.

YMMV, JMHO I keep the bar stocked and my cooking is pretty darn good, however, you can always sail on someone elses boat.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

kjango said:


> .....Ask me if I care.......


No need. You clearly care a little, or you wouldn't have defended yourself.

I'm curious, what's your take if your shoes actually did bring dirt aboard, damaged teak decks, or scuff a bulkhead. Owners problem for needing your help, or are you convinced you wouldn't do so?


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

If I was getting paid by the hour, I'd be happy to do whatever time-consuming things the customer asked me. Do you want me to remove my shoes? Sure! Do you want me to pray with you? Amen! Do you want me to prepare your breakfast? How do you like your eggs? When the customer is paying for my time, he can use my time as he sees fit, as long as it's legal, moral and ethical.


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

Minnewaska.....I am very mindful of what I do on ANY boat . I keep a very tidy boat myself so I "feel" like I understand . What I fail to understand is being called to the same boat for the same thing 3 times & then I'm being characterized as unreasonable . Sailormon.......anything the owner wants that's keeps you on the clock eh ???? lmao I guess I have lived too long to where tender sensibilities & mindless stupidity is the new normal . Sigh.......I guess some people are sailors & some people are just pogs that own a boat .


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

kjango said:


> ... What I fail to understand is being called to the same boat for the same thing 3 times & then I'm being characterized as unreasonable . ...


I think I understand what you're saying. The boat owner knew how you worked from the first time you were there so what made her think you would change for callbacks 2 and 3.

I don't agree or disagree with your personal policy, just saying that I _think_ I understand your perspective in this.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

SVAuspicious said:


> Cuts down on _tracking salt_ and other dirt below. Very common.


I also never enter anyone's house with my shoes on. This is just being polite...


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

This winter has been as we say around here "wicked long."

For your further entertainment on the shoe or not to shoe issue, I offer the following:

Water Resistant Shoe Covers - Size 6-11 S-10481 - Uline

I've seen these used in better boat yards by the craftsmen (or craftspersons) working on boats.

The ice is finally out in my bay, there's hope!


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

kjango said:


> I put on a pair of black lug soled logging boots & went back , freed the through hull in about 5 minutes & charged them $150.00 instead of the $25 dollars I would have charged them . I hope they got the message . What a bunch of low bred ignorant ill mannered shoe clerk sons a bitches .


Some of us in the industry actually do have respect for our customers and a good & polite work ethic.

Please don't let posts like this be reflective of the industry. Sad, very, very, very sad.....



RobGallagher said:


> I would never ask a tradesman to take off his shoes and work barefoot. He's working and a stubbed toe or dropped tool might mean loss of income for a day or more.


A good tradesman ALWAYS carries a second set of shoes or has packages booties that go on over street shoes. I use a pair of Crocs, slip on slip off easy as pie and it takes no time at all to be polite & considerate.... Not all of us in the industry are rude & inconsiderate of our customers wants or desires.......


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

I admit it- I hate to see shoes on deck, in cabin, anywhere. Call me OCD, whatever, it doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the stuff at the bottom of peoples' shoes. With that being said, I don't ask people to remove them. I have many guests aboard, especially during races. They always ask and I always say, it's up to you, I always sail barefoot. If I need a contractor on board to fix something, I just assume **** is getting tracked in the cabin and clean it later. 
Keep in mind, I sail in Santa Monica Harbor where it's always 70 degrees and sunny and folks here commonly wear flip-flops anyway.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Maine Sail said:


> I also never enter anyone's house with my shoes on. This is just being polite...


Funny thing my parents would likely be offended by that! I remember as a kid being told to go put my shoes on before dinner.

Well I have a no clothes below deck rule. So I guess that includes shoes 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Maine Sail said:


> Some of us in the industry actually do have respect for our customers and a good & polite work ethic.
> 
> Please don't let posts like this be reflective of the industry. Sad, very, very, very sad.....
> 
> A good tradesman ALWAYS carries a second set of shoes or has packages booties that go on over street shoes. I use a pair of Crocs, slip on slip off easy as pie and it takes no time at all to be polite & considerate.... Not all of us in the industry are rude & inconsiderate of our customers wants or desires.......


And that's why I'd hire you first 

That being said, I do almost all of my own repairs and preventative maintenance. The few times I have called in a pro I was in dire straights and could not figure out what to do. I honestly don't remember if the guy was wearing pants, never mind shoes. I just wanted things sorted out.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Funny, folks off both sides of reality.

I do wipe my feet and change shoes in gritty boat yards. Non-marking soles are just obvious... though I do have to remind myself about rock climbing approach sneakers; they have great grip on smooth decks, look like sneakers, but they leave incredible black skid marks.

a. I don't go barefoot below decks often. The ladder is slick on sweaty feet, as are some floors, I move fast, and there are too many things to kick. I will go barefoot if it is very hot and practically calm, probably at anchor.

b. I don't go barefoot on deck, even at the dock. just a little dew or salt and the sucker is treacherous (my deck has a lot of sloped areas). A prior poster compared a boat to a light industrial environment. I think that was insightful. I am not going to unsafe because of someone's fastidiousness. A boat is a tool, not a frivolous decoration.

c. I have flat feet and have worn orthodics since high school. Don't go telling me it's because I don't get the right exercise, I assure you I ran around barefoot a ton then. If I go barefoot for more than an hour or walk more than a very short distance my feet hurt, followed by my knees hurting (flat feet can twist knees inwards). I am not going to harm myself to preserve someone's teak or shine.

d. Some people need the grip. My wife has poor balance, diabetes, and arthritis. It is dangerous for her to go barefoot.

e. Do you REALLY want the liability of someone being seriously injured because you REQUIRED them to go barefoot, and then knowingly provided an unsafe environment (every boat is)? Interesting. I honestly think deck shoes are more valuable than PFds, and I bet a lawyer could sell that.

My reasons don't apply to everyone, but don't assume it is logical or practical for all people to go barefoot. I did when I was a kid, I don't now. It is reasonable to wipe feet completely.

Oh yeah. When I did refinery work we would ALWAYS change shoes when leaving the plant floor. Thus, the rules for workmen are different for many reasons. I always carried a change of shoes for office visits. Comparing what workmen must do to everyone else can be a false comparison; I've been on both sides of that. I'm suspect a few people have had bad experiences with workmen's boots and that has colored their thinking.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

The thing I've learned in this thread is don't go somewhere where there "is only 1 game in town".


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

kjango said:


> ......What I fail to understand is being called to the same boat for the same thing 3 times....





kjango said:


> .....At some point they found out I was the only game in town......


What other choice did they have? I'm sure they were praying you would become reasonable.


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> What other choice did they have? I'm sure they were praying you would become reasonable.


They could have been reasonable & polite & been loosing lines in ten minutes . They had two shots at that option , but chose 2 days of drama instead over NOTHING . How did the option they chose work out for them . I would have probably charged them $25.00 to free the through hull . Instead ,they got charged for all 3 visits one hour minimum , they paid an extra day transient docking fees , & they lost a day cruising . Genius move. I did leave them the can of Airkroil in case any of their other through hulls had issues.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Said the man with the monopoly. You just don't get it. 

There was nothing unreasonable about their request. You just got away with bullying them into submitting.


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

And again I am caused to ponder.......I wonder what the color of the sky is in Lala Land


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

This pissing match is most amusing. 

As far as I understand things, a private business person can offer his/her services pretty much as they choose to (within the bounds of the laws and regulations). If this person doesn't want to remove his shoes, then that's his right. He may loose business over this stance, but that's his choice.

On the client side, if they clearly know the terms on which the business is willing to work with them, then they can't complain when they get turned down for demanding something the provider has already said he won't do. They have the right to make this demand, but they can't complain when the business person walks away. 

If the client wants the service bad enough, they'll have to change their demands. If the business person wants the job bad enough, he will have to change his requirements. Neither are obligated to do either thing. It's why they call it the free market.

As far as I'm concerned, both sides in this fight seem pretty childish.


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

MikeOReilly said:


> This pissing match is most amusing.
> 
> As far as I understand things, a private business person can offer his/her services pretty much as they choose to (within the bounds of the laws and regulations). If this person doesn't want to remove his shoes, then that's his right. He may loose business over this stance, but that's his choice.
> 
> ...


Mike , I find your perspective to be spot on & the voice of reason on this issue.....thanks


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

MikeOReilly said:


> ......
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, both sides in this fight seem pretty childish.





kjango said:


> Mike , I find your perspective to be spot on & the voice of reason on this issue.....thanks


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## jwing (Jun 20, 2013)

When chartering in the Caribbean, my friends and I have learned from experience that our vacations are more pleasant when we take off our shoes before we step into the cockpit (and of course, into the cabin). This greatly reduces the amount of sand and salt in the living spaces. Since we all wear sport-utility sandals, each person clips a carabiner to the backstay for the duration of the trip. When coming aboard, the sandals are clipped to a carabiner. That way, the shoes are always handy where you need them, out of the way, and won't go overboard. 

We go a step further: Wet clothes are not allowed in the cockpit or in the cabin. That means that swimmers must change to dry clothes when coming back aboard. With that practice, it's much simpler to simply drop trou, dive in naked, and re-pant; completely skipping the putting on a swimsuit, then taking it off and dealing with the dripping garment step. And of course, skinny dipping in warm Caribbean water is, oh, 9 or 10 thousand times better than wearing clothes.


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

Faster said:


>


In my defence.....I didn't become childish until I was called back the 3rd time in two days when I was perfectly clear AND POLITE on day one


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

All shore shoes come off as soon as we are back onboard. 

Boat shoes with clean soles are fine but it is mostly barefoot aboard.

I take my shoes of automatically when visiting other boats.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

I really don't think it is a major request to be asked to take shoes off when doing work. And any real professional would have booties to slip over shoes anyway. 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

miatapaul said:


> . And any real professional would have booties to slip over shoes anyway.
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


not if you're the only game town, that's apparently proven


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Frank Lloyd Wright was once asked about why he designed such clunky chairs. Take a look, they ALL have heavy cross-bars down low on the legs. He said, that's to that you can lean back in the chair, or put your coat on the back of it, and it won't fall over. If a chair falls over when you tilt it back--that's a bad chair, because people are just going to do that.

I'd suggest similar thoughts for a cabin sole. People wear shoes. Deal with it. If your floor can't deal with shoes? There's something wrong with the floor, don't bother everyone who comes aboard 'cause _you're _too bent to fix your floor.


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

miatapaul said:


> I really don't think it is a major request to be asked to take shoes off when doing work. And any real professional would have booties to slip over shoes anyway.





Don0190 said:


> not if you're the only game town, that's apparently proven


This probably doesn't need to be said, but just in case...

Being the only game in town doesn't make you a professional... it just makes you the only game in town.

Barry


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

After lost nails,broken toes and slips I have two sets of shoes. One for on deck and one for shore. I have a small,rug out on the dock( if we are on a dock), another in the cockpit it front of the companion way and a third on the sole in front of last step.
Still most of the time crew and I are barefoot. Hence all the rugs and request folks wipe their feet when getting on boat or going below. Have teak and holly sole. Plan to keep this boat so unless they are sea boots and it's blowing there are no shoes below. Sand is a ***** to clean out and scars the wood. Everyone I know does the same. Even when workers come aboard they automatically take theirs off. Never had to ask.
Personally find bare feet prone to slip. Use Keen sandals which seem to work better than my yuppie boat shoes,and cheapo flip flops when shore side


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

My main reason for taking my shoes off when down below and leaving them topside is because they stink!


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Since we are in and out of the dinghy in saltwater and sandy beaches most days, we keep a bucket of water on deck with a dipper and give our feet and legs a little rinse before venturing any further. Keeps the salt and sand out of the cockpit and down below.


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

You know, the short synopsis of this thread is that folks have different ideas of how to deal with the issue on their boat. It's THEIR boat. When on their boat, deal with it the way THEY wish. Why is that so complicated?

My boat's far from Bristol... yet I usually take my shoes off prior to boarding simply because I hate to clean. Actually, my boat is probably a pig compared to most of yours. I don't ask anyone else to do the same, mostly because I'm embarrassed that my boat is probably the crappiest boat in the marina. I'm working on it, and it's getting better, and everyone is nice to us, but when I bought it it was an eyesore. 

When I board anyone else's boat, I always remove my shoes. Some appreciate it, some laugh at me and tell me it's not necessary. In either case, I've offended no one. Makes sense to me. 

Barry


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Don0190 said:


> My main reason for taking my shoes off when down below and leaving them topside is because they sink!


Sink?? ... you got enough water down below to worry about that??


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Faster said:


> Sink?? ... you got enough water down below to worry about that??


Sink, what are you talking about? Check my post and it says "stink"


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

bblument said:


> This probably doesn't need to be said, but just in case...
> 
> Being the only game in town doesn't make you a professional... it just makes you the only game in town.
> 
> Barry


Nor does it preclude one FROM being a professional . Nor does it make void my right to decide where & under what conditions I will work . They called me 3 times & knew the scoop after the first trip . I'm not into running fool's errands. Next time you have idea genius......just let it go .


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

kjango said:


> Nor does it preclude one FROM being a professional . Nor does it make void my right to decide where & under what conditions I will work . They called me 3 times & knew the scoop after the first trip . I'm not into running fool's errands. Next time you have idea genius......just let it go .


You come off as a very pleasant person in your responses to people who are basically responding to your posting. The other people didn't make you look this way, you did it all on your own and bragged about it.


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

Don0190 said:


> You come off as a very pleasant person in your responses to people who are basically responding to your posting. The other people didn't make you look this way, you did it all on your own and bragged about it.


& another genius with nothing relevant to say is heard from


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

kjango said:


> & another genius with nothing relevant to say is heard from


..and here's another.. Nobody here appears to have found your little parable in any way amusing or of value to this discussion, even as it has gotten otherwise carried away.

Your apparent attitude is rather appalling and since your continued efforts are not likely to generate any new business for you, I'd suggest you drop this now.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I think someone has nasty toe nail fungus. 

In all seriousness, there could be reasons some people are sensitive to removing their shoes. Can't say, however, that I've ever seen someone with their shoes off on my boat, that I suddenly wished hadn't. Suppose it could happen.


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> I think someone has nasty toe nail fungus.
> 
> In all seriousness, there could be reasons some people are sensitive to removing their shoes. Can't say, however, that I've ever seen someone with their shoes off on my boat, that I suddenly wished hadn't. Suppose it could happen.


ok.......with the suggestion I have a nasty toe nail fungus I see a new level of low here so , get ready to be happy , I'm out . I maintain soft white soft white soles were appropriate for the event & that having to make 3 trips was not . Hope you all have a nice day .


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Interesting perspectives from a new thread found here: *Behavior On Other's Boats*



kjango said:


> Couple weeks ago I had a racing sailor on my boat . We were going along pretty good , making way nicely , & I was on the tiller drinking coffee admiring the water going by when he started tweaking everything. Five minutes later the boat is on it ear , the mast is shaking , my coffee is on the deck of the cockpit spilled , & the rig is about blow up . So......I came up on the wind higher as the boat was wanting to round up anyway til everything eased . He then turned to me & said ,"You weren't supposed to change course ." I didn't want to make a big deal out of it . He's a nice guy & I was trying to be a nice guy when I asked him along as his boat was out of service so I laughed it off & pointed out on my boat I often just change course as my mood suits me . The thing is this . I've seen this movie a few times . First off , I like to race as well , but having said that......not EVERY sail is a race . But more often then not when I've had racers on my boat it's some version of what I just described. Why is it that often when racers are aboard they feel comfortable sailing your boat their way & then take umbrage when you point that out to them . More often then not what comes next is a critique of my sailing from them which doesn't really smooth things over for me . I have a few miles under my keel & I choose to sail the way I sail as my preference & on my boat my right . This is actually the first time I haven't ended up being the bad guy cause I just kind of shrugged it off like I described . *What I think is reasonable is that when on someone else's boat to follow that person's lead . * It's not a huge issue as I mostly sail alone , but it is a recurring one & causes me to wonder at their mindset. Input ???





kjango said:


> What I'm sort of taking away from this is I should mostly continue sailing alone . I have poor people skills & feel more at ease sailing by myself anyway . When I do sail with folks I pretty much limit "leading" to safety information like location of flotation devices & fire extinguishers . He's a nice guy & I'm sure he meant no harm .


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

:laugher:laugher:laugher


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

kjango said:


> I've only ever been asked once to remove my shoes on a boat I was boarding to to free a frozen through hull . I politely declined & moved on to my next endeavor of the day . At some point they found out I was the only game in town & called me a second time & asked me to come back & please hurry as we're trying to leave . I told them .....politely ....I would put their name back on the list . I ended up going back first thing the next morning & imagine my surprise when they asked me again to remove my shoes . Late in the afternoon they called me a third time & all but begged me to come back & had a long sad story about not being able to sail with the head not functioning . I put on a pair of black lug soled logging boots & went back , freed the through hull in about 5 minutes & charged them $150.00 instead of the $25 dollars I would have charged them . I hope they got the message . What a bunch of low bred ignorant ill mannered shoe clerk sons a bitches .


I have no idea where you got your professional training, but I can't remember the last time I had any worker come aboard our boat, who didn't take their shoes off at the rail. In drydock or at anchor, even the West Indians ALWAYS take their shoes off before walking around on someone's boat (even when I tell them they need not!).
Sorry, but if you were the only game in town, with your "low bred ignorant ill mannered", attitude, you wouldn't get a nickle out of me. I'd rather sh*t in a bucket than have you aboard my boat.


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

Went sailing today......wore boots !!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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## rugosa (Aug 30, 2011)

Thought this thread was done


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

My philosophy is to leave a client's boat as clean as I found it - often that means it is cleaner.

How I accomplish that depends on many factors including the boat, the nature of the work, the temperature, and other weather factors.

Usually I take my shoes off. Sometimes I wear shoe covers ( Dynarex Corporation Regular Surgical Shoe Cover - 50 Pack - Walmart.com ). Sometimes I just have to clean up after myself (which is why I carry vinegar and Spray Nine).

I'm not going to risk my health or injury.

In my opinion clients should know I was on the boat because something works that didn't before and there is a line on their credit card bill (*grin*) not because of footprints on their sole.


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