# 3D Printing of Sailboats



## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

I have been reading the technology to print out a yacht using 3D printing will be here in less that 10 years. I wonder if this will reduce the cost of yachts to the consumer.

Anybody know anything about this new technology?


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

There was an episode of "Big Bang Theory" in which two characters paid something like $6,000 for a 3-D printer so they could print out plastic action figures of themselves.

To me, it would like seem doing the same to 'print out' a yacht. I can't imagine the cost of the printer to make a 30 foot yacht, but it doesn't really seem like it would be cheaper than the way they make them now...

Especially when you consider the number of 3-D yachts the owner of the printer would likely sell.

from: Power and Sailboat Sales Rebounded in 2012 | Dealer Access : : From Big Rock Sports



> - New powerboat sales increased 10 percent to 157,300 in 2012.
> - New sailboat sales increased 29.2 percent to 5,945 in 2012.
> 
> - Small fiberglass and aluminum outboard boats 26 feet or less in size, continued their upward climb with an 11.3 percent increase in the number of new boats sold. Outboard boats are the most popular type of new powerboat sold, making up approximately 82 percent of the market.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

I could see it happening, but it will take a while longer than 10 years. I doubt anyone will go into business buying a large printer to print boats, but once you have the equipment it doesn't matter much what you make with it. 

My guess is the first boats made this way will be aluminum, or actually titanium. As an outgrowth of metal sintering technology already being used in custom fabrication instead of making molds. But right now the largest machine I know of (not that I follow it closely) is only a few feet a side. But within this size pretty much anything can be made. 

They would just have to up the size massively to make it possible.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

3D printing isn't new; it's at least 20 years old. My engineering school bought a 3D printer when I was a freshman or sophomore. What's new is the ability to do it with machines that cost a few thousand dollars, and in something that can fit on a desk. They are constantly developing new materials to use, too.

One of the big problems with 3D printing is that it takes a long time. The piece has to be built up layer-by-layer, and in many cases those layers are only a few thousandths of an inch thick, at most. Trying to print a 40' boat would take forever. What I CAN see it being used for, though, are models. For example, if Bob Perry wanted to give his clients a chance to "see" what their boat will look like, he could get a desktop printer and print them something at 1:40 or 1:50 scale in a day or two. They could also test the performance in a wind tunnel/water tank if they wanted (though things like weight ratios will probably be off).


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

What about a smaller version, that is onboard, and used to replace items as they are needed..?


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Jim,

The company I used to work for made titanium parts from 3d CAD drawings. The largest I worked on was a exhaust manifold for a 450hp Diesel engine, I think about 24"x30"x6" but I can't remember the specs to be honest. It took about 12 hours on a high speed large platform sintering machine. 

I could easily see a very large machine with multiple laser printing heads working on a large project like a boat, and do it in a reasonable amount of time. I don't think the technology is there yet, and I don't think it will be in the very near future, but I do think it will be coming eventually.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Greg,
I agree that it could be done; it's "just" an engineering problem to scale it up. And it could probably be done with some of the plastic fab machines that are out there today (scaled up, of course). However, the question for me is whether it will actually be cost effective to do so. Even today, you typically see the 3D printers used in one-off production for things like prototypes or custom jewelry. You don't see them used a lot in mass-production environments because there are frequently other ways to manufacture things that give you equivalent results for lower cost (or higher production run output). Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see high-quality 40'+ boats mass produced and available at prices closer to automobiles today. I just think that, if it's going to happen, its on a MUCH longer timeline than 10 years.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Maybe a 3D printed mold would be the first step.
Or even before that the 3D printing of molds to make various components like hatches and liners.

I get one of the trade magazines and that is what the fabricators did to get their feet wet is to start with components to learn about vacuum bagging techniques.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

David,

I think 6 axis cutting machines are still going to be faster for large parts. For smaller stuff you could do it now. We used to make casting molds with 3D printers all the time, it made the mold turn around time a few hours instead of a couple of weeks. 


Jim,

Agreed. I don't know about time frame, but boats are hardly mass produced. With build times of months for even simple hulls, I don't think it's out of the question. The real question is if boat hulls are high enough value to justify the coat of machine rental.


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## capt vimes (Dec 2, 2013)

the technology is there, it is just a question of the material used and size...
stonespraying is a technique to build houses with and the proper sized printer for that purpose are also there, or simply have to be set together...
"Endless" house to be built using giant 3D printer

modern carbon sails btw get also sort of printed - on a mold goes a thin sheet, then a robot comes along and "prints" the carbon strands with the proper amount of resin in the right location on it, then the second sheet goes on, backed - finished....


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I actually know someone who produces 3D printed metal parts as his business. Those commerical machines are hundreds of thousands of dollars. I've seen the machines in action. They take an entire day to make a part the size of your fist. Incredibly cool, but the tech doesn't seem practical on the scale of a boat. It might be your classic, "high tech solution to a low tech problem" Just laying a hull up by hand may not be slower or more expensive per unit. 

Also, can the technology create an object with multiple materials? I've only seen one metal or one plastic used. If you wanted a different material on the skin from the core, I'm not sure the printers can do that??


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Vimes, that was interesting. Maybe its time to go back to ferrocement boats!


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

I have all the software and my 3D guy, Jody Culbertson, is certainly capable of producing the models.


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## jeremiahblatz (Sep 23, 2013)

Do you count CNC cutters? (If not, why not?) People have been using them to make plugs for years. Hulls need lots of tensile strength, which is why people make them out of fiberglass (or CF). Additive 3D printing can build things with high compressive strength, but it's hard to get things with sufficient tensile strength.

3D printed parts (such as sintered titanium) are just becoming practical for aerospace, presumably we'll see some entering use on high end race boats before too long.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

My eldest is a sterolithographer, has been for a decade or so. He runs a floor full of the massive production ones and does rapid prototyping as well.
The machines he runs are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars range. These aren't printers - they build the product one layer at a time from the bottom up in a vat of goop (that's how I understand it, but I'm a database guy).
They are no where near big enough to do more than say an engine block. 

A yacht? Dream on. Wrong material, and you'd need months of run time.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

The more I think about this idea, the more I wonder. Say someone with a decent, large 3-D printer in St. Croix. I wonder if the time it would take to print and the cost would be less than just ordering and having it mailed... Even if you can assume that the printers had enough of the materials on hand and access to the design to print


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Remember the hull is only a portion of the finished build. You still have to install all the systems, run the plumbing, electrical, ect... I am sure the printing would allow for some interesting design advantages however. Like buries conduit, integral fuel lines, that just aren't possible with current manufacturing capabilities. 

Long term I think it will happen, but I am sure it will take a while. Current sintering technology allows about 1in^3 an hour to be layer down per machine. This was from a 1mx1m machine, so on a 12m (abt 40') boat with a 3.7m (12') beam you could squeeze in say 50 print heads. At 50 cubic inches/hr, that's 1,200 cubic inches a day, or roughly 120lbs of aluminium hull a day. I have no idea off hand, but let's say a typical 40' hull in aluminium weighs in at 5,500lbs. At 120lbs per day that comes out to about 45 days of printing time. 

I am not sure what current construction time would be for just the shell, but I would actually guess that isn't that far off current methods.


Edit: updated hull weight based upon more acurate numbers.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

If things are close to equal, I could see where doing things that couldn't be done with the traditional methods (or traditional as they stand now), it seems 3-D wold have an advantage.

But I have an off topic queston why would you want buried conduit? what if you needed access? It seems to me that could be a barrier


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

As a holder of a BS in Biology who is going for his masters in bioengineering I can tell you the future is 3D printing without a doubt. 
They will print food from cartiredges with 30 year shelf life which will stop loads of starvation and famine. They will have industrial sized printers which are towed in 18 wheelers and brought to job sites toconstruct buildings. 3d printers will create microscopic bots which are injected to your blood stream and provide real time information on your hdl, ldl, blood and hormone levels ect. These bots will also be able to remove plaque from arteries or signal that a person is about to have a stroke or heart attack ect.
3d printing will result in arms and munitions factories underground including by terrorist.
printing will result in sailboat manurfacturing as well as cars, houses, objects, foods, literally the possibilities are endless.

If any of you have kids I strongly encourage you to have them pursue a science education or engineering education as the fields of bioengineering, protein and gene therapy, 3d printing and manurfacturing will have incredible oppertunities.
great thread!


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

we have one here. it can do a 3' cube part. takes forever and is very cost prohibitive. it is fun to do though. we had a very small scale one in our cubes for a bit, again fun to play with but after a while it becomes dull. they are useful for one off parts or interference checks. to actually try to print parts off faster or more economically than machining and fab, may be a very very long way off.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Harborless said:


> As a holder of a BS in Biology who is going for his masters in bioengineering I can tell you the future is 3D printing without a doubt.
> They will print food from cartiredges with 30 year shelf life which will stop loads of starvation and famine. They will have industrial sized printers which are towed in 18 wheelers and brought to job sites toconstruct buildings. 3d printers will create microscopic bots which are injected to your blood stream and provide real time information on your hdl, ldl, blood and hormone levels ect. These bots will also be able to remove plaque from arteries or signal that a person is about to have a stroke or heart attack ect.
> 3d printing will result in arms and munitions factories underground including by terrorist.
> printing will result in sailboat manurfacturing as well as cars, houses, objects, foods, literally the possibilities are endless.
> ...


Print food? I don't see how it is possible the printing costs would undercut Twinkies that have a 30 year shelf-life


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

avenger79 said:


> we have one here. it can do a 3' cube part. takes forever and is very cost prohibitive. it is fun to do though. we had a very small scale one in our cubes for a bit, again fun to play with but after a while it becomes dull. they are useful for one off parts or interference checks. to actually try to print parts off faster or more economically than machining and fab, may be a very very long way off.


It's already here. There are some parts that are being printed right now for commercial purposes. It is limited to things that are difficult to machine, and can't be cast for strength purposes, but as prices have dropped it is getting more common.

Many casting molds are already being printed since it's faster to print them than to wait for traditional methods.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

titustiger27 said:


> But I have an off topic queston why would you want buried conduit? what if you needed access? It seems to me that could be a barrier


Because it's easier to run new electrical lines thru conduit than by having to chase lines around the boat.


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## Bill B (Sep 28, 2011)

One of the issues that has been discussed is cost - will it be cost effective for a builder to buy/lease a machine to 3D print their hulls? That seems like an important consideration. But what if it isn't necessary?

For example- today, if I want something 3D printed, I don't have to have a 3D printer (but I do  ). I can go to a web site, upload my design, pay for it, and receive the printed product by mail.

I don't know how likely it is, but it's conceivable that something similar could happen - companies could spring up whose sole purpose is to 3D print large scale items. Suddenly, the manufacture of boat hulls is commoditized, and the builders wind up focusing on design and finishing.

Just a thought.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Stumble said:


> Because it's easier to run new electrical lines thru conduit than by having to chase lines around the boat.


I totally understand the simplicity of it...I'm not an electrician, but I see how conduit in a house works.. in a good scenario, but if there is a clog in the conduit or something drops on it and dents it to the point of not being able to re-thread a line

And I don't think you would make the conduit part of the house and in the worse case scenario you can remove the wall from your house and run new conduit

and when you do this you aren't in the middle of a storm with no power to your (insert one: navigation, autopilot, ssb, etc)

But this coming from not having worked on the wiring of a boat


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Bill B said:


> One of the issues that has been discussed is cost - will it be cost effective for a builder to buy/lease a machine to 3D print their hulls? That seems like an important consideration. But what if it isn't necessary?
> 
> For example- today, if I want something 3D printed, I don't have to have a 3D printer (but I do  ). I can go to a web site, upload my design, pay for it, and receive the printed product by mail.
> 
> ...


Or, if you are a designer, you don't have to be a boat builder. You could sell your design to people who have a 3-D Printer (and hope they don't give it to everyone on the internet)

*that said*

people have been able to buy 2-D printers for sometime now (both photocopiers and computer printers) and I don't think there are many people who are running a publishing company that way. And while there have been a few self-publish successes through vanity presses (sort of the book version of what you are saying for a 3-D boat) I don't know of a lot of people who are making it financially viable.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Here's a link to a TED talk on Contour Crafting. The speaker asserts they can build a 2,500 sq ft home in 20 hours. The printer borrows from the idea of CNC machines using multiple tool heads and uses a grasping tool to insert items and another head to spin on rebar extensions. The design even addresses plumbing, electrical and interior finishes.

While not precise enough for boat building it's not hard to see the possibilities or how fast this technology could develop.

And think about this - a hull shape is in part defined by the ability to remove the finished hull from the mold. 3D printing could print any hull shape the designer could imagine.


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## Bill B (Sep 28, 2011)

titustiger27 said:


> people have been able to buy 2-D printers for sometime now (both photocopiers and computer printers) and I don't think there are many people who are running a publishing company that way. And while there have been a few self-publish successes through vanity presses (sort of the book version of what you are saying for a 3-D boat) I don't know of a lot of people who are making it financially viable.


I disagree. I'm pretty sure that most book publishers outsource their printing these days, and even newspapers have started to move away from printing in-house. So really, not only has it already happened, it's already common.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

The one in that keeps getting raised is the cost of the machines. I frankly don't see that as a particularly big impediment. Go take a walk around any long term boat builders yard and you will see hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions of dollars worth of molds rotting pretty much everywhere. Switching to a printer eliminates all these costs immediately. 

As an example, I am working with a builder that just invested in four more molds to build a 20' boat. Each mold costs about $100,000 plus between $10,000 and $20,000 to ship it to where it is needed. So this small builder now owns about $750,000 worth of molds that have no residual value. Should people stop ordering boats, there is no way to recover any money from these things. Which means there is a huge financial risk for every mold that needs to be built. 

In addition, the ease of switching from one boat to another is as simple as loading a different program into the database. So instead of needing molds spread all over the world to reduce shipping costs of individual boats the file could be emailed to the buyers nearest printing company, allowing delivery cost to be minimal. 

In short, I don't think the printers will be owned by industrial print shops not boat builders, then the raw hull will be trucked to a builder for finishing work and systems install. But the cost of the machine is of negligible concern.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> people have been able to buy 2-D printers for sometime now (both photocopiers and computer printers) and I don't think there are many people who are running a publishing company that way. And while there have been a few self-publish successes through vanity presses (sort of the book version of what you are saying for a 3-D boat) I don't know of a lot of people who are making it financially viable.


Quite a bit of printing is now print-on-demand. Nautical charts are all POD now, as are a lot of textbooks. We have a digital press that is really not much more than a beefed up copier, and it can turn out a full-color 60-page saddle stitched book for under $1.50.

Anyway... I think 3D printing is very exciting. I bet race boats will be the first to use it. You could create crazy microfoams and vary the thickness exactly as a designer specified to create super lightweight hulls.


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## THEFRENCHA (Jan 26, 2003)

That would solve the problem of making a living when cruising around the world
Arrive in Tahiti, raise the flag showing you have a 3D printer on board, and then provide expensive services to all boaters in need of parts for the engine , or the autopilot !


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

I'd like a printer that could print out dinner.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Back in '52 ,Kurt Vonnegut wrote 'Player Piano' telling about society changing with automation.. About the same time I read a story about a renaissance hero who programs his computer to extrude a space ship in which he leaves Earth with his sweetie. A tad short on the technical aspects but most of us have no idea how things work anyway so not to get hung up with details. The concepts are now coming to reality and the dream of sailing off in your own vessel is closer, even if you do have to buy the program.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

I print food in my 3D garden.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

I'm going to print out some choice tacos tonight with a print of my famous guacamole
( sour cream, garlic powder, Worchestershire Sauce, lime juice and avocado.)


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Bill B said:


> I disagree. I'm pretty sure that most book publishers outsource their printing these days, and even newspapers have started to move away from printing in-house. So really, not only has it already happened, it's already common.


I think we are looking at this differently.

First even if book publishers are outsourcing it is to a bigger printer, not some guy with a photocopier in his basement...

and those who are outsourcing, likely they are outsourcing Stephen King novels, not Kilgore Trout.

If I read you right, you are saying that O'day is going to outsource boat building to a guy with a 3-D printer --- is that right?


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Minnesail said:


> Quite a bit of printing is now print-on-demand. Nautical charts are all POD now, as are a lot of textbooks. We have a digital press that is really not much more than a beefed up copier, and it can turn out a full-color 60-page saddle stitched book for under $1.50.
> 
> Anyway... I think 3D printing is very exciting. I bet race boats will be the first to use it. You could create crazy microfoams and vary the thickness exactly as a designer specified to create super lightweight hulls.


In my just 'published' response I think we are looking at this differently. I think POD is more from people who have the ability to do mass productions... I don't think they are doing just one offs... maybe they are.. doing 3,000 different books two at a time POD, When I look at the verso of a book and it says: "Toronto, London, New York" as places of printed... I will concede it is likely it is POD, but not from a small printing company..

I do agree that just as there are printers doing one off 'artist books' there will be 3-D printers doing Oracles... I still wonder it it won't be cheaper to make them buy hand...your thought of microfoams might lend itself to the fact a 3-D printer could make something that can't be hand made.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

titustiger27 said:


> I think we are looking at this differently.
> 
> First even if book publishers are outsourcing it is to a bigger printer, not some guy with a photocopier in his basement...
> 
> ...


I think books are a poor comparison to boats. While there may be tens or hundreds of thousands of books printed at a time even a large boat builder only builds a handful a year. As an example take the J-35. Over the ten year production run they built about 300 boats, or right at two and a half a month. For a 35' boat this is a pretty successful production run, but for almost anything but a boat company it wouldn't even count as a production run.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"people have been able to buy 2-D printers for sometime now (both photocopiers and computer printers) and I don't think there are many people who are running a publishing company that way. "
It is called "demand printing" and if you order a title from Amazon and other sources, who are publishing it for an author, that's how they print it. Printing single copies of books to fill single orders may cost 5x-10x more than printing a conventional book on press, but it doesn't pay to publish books, stack them, stock them, warehouse and distribute them, until you get into tens of thousands in one press run. So even at 10x the cost, demand printing can be cheaper for small volumes.
The parallels between boat building and book publishing would seem to elude me, though. 
I could see a swimming-pool sized vat of goo, topped off with a herd of high powered lasers, to stereolithographically produce boat hulls (with integral tanks and piping, etc.) or auto bodies or anything else of size, but the goo ain't cheap nor would the machine to work with it. Of course, the same thing ("ain't cheap") applied to the Indigo and Xerox machines that did "on demand' printing in the late 80's, and they still managed to find and take over a market niche. Emphasis on niche.

Then there's the question of whether any of the plastics or metals currently being used for 3D printing would be suitable for a yacht hull. And titanium gets crossed off the list immediately, because if you could afford that much titanium, you'd buy a Gulfstream instead of a cheap less-than-one-hundred-meter yacht.


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## Bill B (Sep 28, 2011)

titustiger27 said:


> I think we are looking at this differently.
> 
> First even if book publishers are outsourcing it is to a bigger printer, not some guy with a photocopier in his basement...


I agree that it's not to a guy in his basement. But it's only to a bigger printer because the publisher is no longer a printer at all. (and any printing is more than none)



titustiger27 said:


> and those who are outsourcing, likely they are outsourcing Stephen King novels, not Kilgore Trout.


I disagree. Since the publishers don't do their own printing, they have no choice but to send all of it out.



titustiger27 said:


> If I read you right, you are saying that O'day is going to outsource boat building to a guy with a 3-D printer --- is that right?


Not to a guy with a printer in his basement.

But potentially to a specialized company whose sole purpose might be to print large form factor items (which in this case would include, but not be limited to, boat hulls). I would expect said company to have multiple printers, servicing multiple clients, probably in multiple industries. An industrial 3D print shop, if you will.


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## Bill B (Sep 28, 2011)

Stumble said:


> I think books are a poor comparison to boats.





hellosailor said:


> The parallels between boat building and book publishing would seem to elude me, though.


It wasn't an intentional comparison, but rather, a digression. My original point was that 3D printing advances could result in the outsourcing of hull production, removing the need for builders to finance/afford their own 3D printers. That sort of veered off into whether or not 2D printing advances had resulted in the outsourcing of book printing.

Sorry about that. I get distracted easily. Oh look over there, a squirrel! :laugher


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Bill B said:


> I agree that it's not to a guy in his basement. But it's only to a bigger printer because the publisher is no longer a printer at all. (and any printing is more than none)
> 
> I disagree. Since the publishers don't do their own printing, they have no choice but to send all of it out.
> 
> ...


okay


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Speaking of publishing and printing, the two are NOT the same thing. A publisher solicits authors, grooms them, hires editors and fact-checkers and attorneys to deal with the material. Publicizes the book, arranges author's book-signing tours, and...wait for it...contracts out the printing to a printer! 

A printer is just the guy who owns the printing presses, he's got nothing to do with the larger "publishing house" business. A publisher is more akin to a full service yacht sales agency, than a boat builder.

Our theoretical huge 3D printer will, however, be run exactly the same way that printing presses and mainframe computers and other expensive equipment is run. If you have a big expensive computer, you sell time-sharing on it, you never let it sit idle. If you have a printing press, you run three shifts, six or seven days a week, and each job is scheduled to run at a certain time. If the job comes in late? Too bad, you missed your slot, you'll need to reschedule. All this expensive equipment only makes money when it is being used, and the folks who own 'em, use 'em.


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## capt vimes (Dec 2, 2013)

just stumbled across an german article on how researchers produced lightweight materials with a similar strength to solid steel...
here the english abstract:
High-strength cellular ceramic composites with 3D microarchitecture
and it is done with 3D laser lithografie which is a type of 3D printing...
we are just at the beginning of an era and nobody can tell how much more is to come in the future... 
that is what the whole material looks like on a close up:


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

Stumble said:


> I could see it happening, but it will take a while longer than 10 years. I doubt anyone will go into business buying a large printer to print boats, but once you have the equipment it doesn't matter much what you make with it.
> 
> My guess is the first boats made this way will be aluminum, or actually titanium. As an outgrowth of metal sintering technology already being used in custom fabrication instead of making molds. But right now the largest machine I know of (not that I follow it closely) is only a few feet a side. But within this size pretty much anything can be made.
> 
> They would just have to up the size massively to make it possible.


 They're working on it.

3D Printing a Functional Boat with Post-Consumer Milk Jugs | MAKE

Dutch Firm Plans 3D-Printed Canal Boat

Urbee: The world's first 'printed' car rolling off the 3D printing presses... | Mail Online

3ders.org - 40 Chinese students create a race car using 3D printed parts | 3D Printer News & 3D Printing News


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