# bluewater pocket cruiser



## Pauly Dangerous (Jan 31, 2016)

I'd like to buy a sailboat that I can tow with my Suburban 2500 and launch from the trailer in Ft. Lauderdale and sail to the Bahamas safely. I'd be going SCUBA diving so easy access to the water would be ideal. Any suggestions?


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

First off, be aware that crossing the Gulf Stream in the wrong kind of conditions can be serious business. People have died doing this.

Second, there isn't any towable sailboat that is going to be safe crossing the Stream in the wrong kind of conditions. You are going to have to learn to recognize the right conditions, and you are going to have to be willing to wait for those conditions, both going and returning. This means that you CANNOT make a firm plan to cross over on thus-and-such a date, and return X number of days later. You may have to wait up to two weeks for the right conditions to go across, and the same for the return. Can you set aside 6-8 weeks for waiting, crossing over, doing your diving, waiting, and then crossing back? If not, this is not going to work for you.

That said, in the right conditions, most any ballasted sailboat will work. I used to own a San Juan 23 and sailed it across once. You can see the specs for it here: SAN JUAN 23 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com Pretty much any similar boat will work, though once again, let me emphasize ONLY IN THE RIGHT CONDITIONS!

(I'll leave what constitutes the "right conditions" for another thread.)


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

Pauly Dangerous said:


> I'd like to buy a sailboat that I can tow with my Suburban 2500 and launch from the trailer in Ft. Lauderdale and sail to the Bahamas safely. I'd be going SCUBA diving so easy access to the water would be ideal. Any suggestions?


Someone fire up the popcorn popper, I'll grab the cooler.....


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I think that there are quite a few boats that would qualify, in particular if you launch and retrieve with a crane rather than a ramp. As was stated, you need the right conditions to cross, but once those conditions exist any reasonable boat would do.


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## BigEasy (Dec 22, 2015)

I would look into the Pacific Seacraft Flicka. She's only 20' long, but heavy and extremely seaworthy for her length. The draft is pretty minimal at around 3' so it shouldn't be too tough to trailer/launch. The catch is that they're aren't a ton of them on the market and they certainly aint cheap...


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## Pauly Dangerous (Jan 31, 2016)

Thanks for the responses, keep 'em coming.
I have a flexible schedule, so waiting for the right conditions is not a problem (a necessity I'm sure).
Any details, thresholds for a safe or not-safe crossing?
Who else has done this? Any more tips?
I WILL be doing this eventually, with the right gear and preparation, of course. 
Thanks!


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## chadc (Sep 14, 2015)

BigEasy said:


> I would look into the Pacific Seacraft Flicka. She's only 20' long, but heavy and extremely seaworthy for her length. The draft is pretty minimal at around 3' so it shouldn't be too tough to trailer/launch. The catch is that they're aren't a ton of them on the market and they certainly aint cheap...


There's one for sale here at the marina beautiful boat and most definitely not cheap.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

Lots of people make the crossing every year in small boats, such as Catalina 22s and similar boats. They usually leave at night and plan to arrive in daylight. At night, they can see the light from Miami until they're halfway across, and then pick up the light on Bimini. The key is to wait for a weather window, when the wind and sea conditions will be benign for the time it takes to make the crossing, and then get across as quickly as you can. Sail, if you can make good speed under sail. If not, then motor or motor/sail across. IMO, the best small, trailerable, bluewater sailboat is the Flicka, a 20 footer designed to accommodate two adults.

You can probably get good information from other small boat sailors who have made the trip on the trailer sailor forum at this link. The Trailer Sailor


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

A) I don't like responding to threads like this as they are stupid. 
B) threads that could be troll with a poster with a name of 'dangerous' a tempting to do something stupid usually are a troll.
C) the immediate responses are about a boat, Flika, that can't be towed (and is a stupidly overly inflated in price. About the same price as a well found 40 footer)
D) bathtubs have gotten to the Bahamas from Florida.
E) I am outta here...


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

Pauly Dangerous said:


> Thanks for the responses, keep 'em coming.
> I have a flexible schedule, so waiting for the right conditions is not a problem (a necessity I'm sure).
> Any details, thresholds for a safe or not-safe crossing?
> Who else has done this? Any more tips?
> ...


Hey Pauley, any relation to Johnny Dangerously, one of my favorite movie characters.


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## BigEasy (Dec 22, 2015)

Why do you say a Flicka can't be towed? It's only 5,500 lbs... I have two boats of about that weight and tow them both with my Chevy 2500.


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

Way to go to treat a new sailor or wannabe new sailor into the world of sailing! 

Many ways to get to the Bahamas on trailerable boats and some have suggested many sized boats capable of transiting the Gulfstream...

There are countless windows of sailing 'trains' you could follow to the Bahamas in safety due to the number of vessels crossing. Might look for sailing clubs along the East Coast for details and windows.

Here is some good reading to get an idea of the trip and what you'll need...

Taking A Boat To The Bahamas - BoatUS Magazine

Good luck and have fun.

Some sailing clubs you may want to contact in the Ft. Lauderdale area, there are many others in close proximity to Ft. Lauderdale but this is a good start for info on the crossings.

http://www.gulfstreamsailingclub.org/

http://www.hisc.org/

https://sailingsinglesofsouthflorida.wildapricot.org/


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

Lots of boats (sail and power) can make the jump to the Bahamas. Just to be different, I'll through out a few others you might consider:

Telstar trimaran 
Corsair 28 catamaran

What's your budget?


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

I see Mac 26s over here regularly. It's just the Bahamas, not like your rounding the Horn or anything.


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

Pauly Dangerous said:


> I'd like to buy a sailboat that I can tow with my Suburban 2500 and launch from the trailer in Ft. Lauderdale and sail to the Bahamas safely. I'd be going SCUBA diving so easy access to the water would be ideal. Any suggestions?


We have seen both Flicka 20's and Nor'Sea 27's hauled and launched by trailer. Either could easily (albeit slowly) make a passage to Bimini and beyond in the Bahamas when sailed by a competent sailor or (close) couple. Neither are particularly inexpensive but, at least in this case, you get what you pay for. Moreover, we have seen a Flicka in Hawaii that made the trip from SoCal, sailed by an older single lady, and a Nor'Sea 27 with a Connecticut hailing port in Le Marin, Martinique.

FWIW...


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

Webb Chiles is having a great time in the South Pacific with his Moore 24 "Gannet"! I believe he eventually intends to circumnavigate with it also.


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## Pauly Dangerous (Jan 31, 2016)

Thanks Sailorman for the specific information and BigEasy for the Flicka suggestion, guitarguy and everyone else. This is very helpful.
There is a Cape Dory 22 for sale in my area, does anyone have experience with these?
BTW Pauly Dangerous is my DJ name, I do a reggae show on WFCF every other Sunday. What's a troll? I assure you I am a human.
My budget is cheap, I am a humble carpenter.


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

Look outside the "Classic Plastic" realm a bit. Lots of newish boats out there that would probably fit the bill too. Speed is not a bad thing, don't necessarily need a "tank". Hell from what some are saying in here, my 235 could do that run.


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## rnixon (May 7, 2013)

I'm partial to Westerly's boats, having sailed my father's in the North Sea (UK). He had a Westerly 22, which handled heavy weather well (force 8). It was quite slow, but extremely well built (Lloyds 100A1 certifiable IIRC). They're somewhat old now though. One advantage is their use of bilge keels, which makes trailering and launching easier IMO. They have many ocean crossings, although that does require serious experience and ability to reasonably attempt in any boat, IMO.


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

Pauly Dangerous said:


> What's a troll? I assure you I am a human.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

cb32863 said:


> Look outside the "Classic Plastic" realm a bit. Lots of newish boats out there that would probably fit the bill too. Speed is not a bad thing, don't necessarily need a "tank". Hell from what some are saying in here, my 235 could do that run.


People ride jetskis from Miami to Bimini


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

Make sure that whatever you buy comes with a trailer, custom trailers aren't cheap

https://miami.craigslist.org/brw/boa/5401360378.html

$4000 w/ trailer


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

sharkbait said:


> Make sure that whatever you buy comes with a trailer, custom trailers aren't cheap
> 
> https://miami.craigslist.org/brw/boa/5401360378.html
> 
> $4000 w/ trailer


uke
Just for the sails alone.... no comment on the rest.....


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

cb32863 said:


> uke
> Just for the sails alone.... no comment on the rest.....


Honestly not my style either but it fits the OPs intended use


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

For a trailerable pocket cruiser, I'd suggest a Nor'sea 27, as mentioned earlier. I have one myself. There are some that have circumnavigated and countless others have crossed the Pacific and/or Atlantic. It's a good boat to go anywhere.


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

Pauly Dangerous said:


> Thanks Sailorman for the specific information and BigEasy for the Flicka suggestion, guitarguy and everyone else. This is very helpful.
> There is a Cape Dory 22 for sale in my area, does anyone have experience with these?
> BTW Pauly Dangerous is my DJ name, I do a reggae show on WFCF every other Sunday. What's a troll? I assure you I am a human.
> My budget is cheap, I am a humble carpenter.


Welcome to our humble little world of sailing... We have an older gentleman in our sailing club here and he owns a Cape Dory 25 foot that he has sailed to the Bahamas and in the Caribbean and the boat has done fine. Nice little rig!

DJ? I too did some of that sometime back during my Island home in Georgia... I owned and ran the FM 100 watt community radio station but have since given it up... Fun times but the internet has taken most of the fun out of it and people lost interest so I shut it down. Still own the equipment and one day may pursue it again if ever. Loved being on the air... Does anyone remember 'Dr Demento'? Well we had a weekly show and was our most fun time on our radio... 

So are you from Flagler College radio?


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## Pauly Dangerous (Jan 31, 2016)

Who could forget Dr. Demento? Was that you?


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

Pauly Dangerous said:


> Who could forget Dr. Demento? Was that you?


NO... Dr. Demento (Barry Hansen) was the DJ that recorded shows and aired nationally... I ran the syndicated shows which we received CD's and played on air... great show but I believe he is still recording the silliness everyone loves and we listen to it and still receive the shows in MPG format by email.

Here was our station view in it's principal startup view but we have upgraded the soundboard and other equipment since this photo many years ago:

This was a non-commercial station so funded by the community and mostly out of my pocket.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

If you are planning on ramp launching the boat (as opposed to having a travel-lift pick it up off the trailer and set it in the water) then you probably need to forget about the Flicka, the Cape Dory, or the Nor'Sea. Not many ramps go deep enough to launch a boat with a draft of more than two feet or so. When I had the San Juan (board-up draft of less than 2') I found there were a lot of ramps around Florida that I could not use. And that was with a 4WD pickup with a large V8 in it. With a smaller engine, or 2WD there would have been even more that would not have worked.

Beyond that, yeah, pretty much any boat can make it with the right conditions. Read a while back about a couple of guys who took a Hobie 16 across from Florida to Bimini. So "seaworthy" is really not a necessity when the conditions are right, and when the conditions are wrong (like I said) there isn't any trailerable boat that I would try it in.


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## grnrngr (Oct 8, 2014)

We have a swing keel pop top Catalina 25 in our fleet that has done the inland passage to Alaska a couple times. It's trailerable, but probable more than twice as heavy as the Mac26 in the cl ad. Personally the only negative thing I've seen on MacGregors and Ventures are the thin chainplates, upgrade the standing rigging by 1/16th and they're decent boats. I'm not sure about the ones that use water ballast, but they're not the only boats to use that system. Just remember, the bigger the boat the more difficult it is to launch and rig by yourself. San Juan 21, 23, 24, Santana 23, Cal 20, 22, 24, Catalina 22,25, all good boats as long as you prepare properly.


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

denverd0n said:


> If you are planning on ramp launching the boat (as opposed to having a travel-lift pick it up off the trailer and set it in the water) then you probably need to forget about the Flicka, the Cape Dory, or the Nor'Sea. Not many ramps go deep enough to launch a boat with a draft of more than two feet or so.


Good point. I wouldn't ramp launch my Nor'sea. Travel lift is the way to go on it. Even if a ramp is deep enough, the one's I've seen are a bit steep and it would be a lot of trouble to drive up with a fully loaded boat.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

"trailer-able bluewater pocket cruiser" - just the phase cracks me up :laugher

And then to just go from Fl to the Bahamas. And then they want to be able to scuba dive from it. :laugher

Someone needs to just go do some sailing.


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## Aswayze (Apr 5, 2015)

I purchased a Parker Dawson 26 for basically the same use you are talking about. Like many designs from a bygone era, they are all getting a little old these days but they are VERY solidly built little boats. Board up draft of 18 inches makes them a snap to launch and while like the Westerly's they are not fast, they are quite secure with their deep center cockpits. There were not a bazillion of them made, but they are generally out there if you look. Mine was a fairly well fitted out "deluxe" boat with a nice inboard diesel that set me back about $5K my buddy bought his Midships 25 (same boat, different name) fairly bare bones with a gas engine instead of the diesel on a trailer for $800. I plan to cruise the Bahamas in mine once I pile up enough vacation weeks to make it worth my time. (I want 7-8 weeks)









Mine









My buddy Staggs Midships behind my car (stopped for emergency alternator replacement)


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## oldragbaggers (Dec 6, 2005)

Pauly Dangerous said:


> Thanks Sailorman for the specific information and BigEasy for the Flicka suggestion, guitarguy and everyone else. This is very helpful.
> There is a Cape Dory 22 for sale in my area, does anyone have experience with these?
> BTW Pauly Dangerous is my DJ name, I do a reggae show on WFCF every other Sunday. What's a troll? I assure you I am a human.
> My budget is cheap, I am a humble carpenter.


We have owned both a Cape Dory Typhoon and a 22. They are wonderful, stable, sweet sailing boats. They do have low freeboard, so can be a wet ride, but that's true of a lot of boats in that size range. Unless you're pretty tall the 22 has a pretty usable berth and good sitting headroom.

A better choice, in my opinion, would be a Bristol 24. They are about the same weight and draft as the Flicka, have 6' headroom, and cost a heck of a lot less. They are scarce on water tankage and storage room. You would need to launch from a travelift.

We actually loved our Catalina 22 with a deep fixed fin keel, and spent many long weekends cruising on one.

Best of luck!


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## sesmith (Jan 24, 2013)

The problem with these types of threads is we all recommend what we know (cause we either own one or did). In that vein, I'll represent the Seawards. We have a Seaward 25, but the 26 RK's fit the bill as well. They are nice, comfortable coastal cruisers, sail reasonably well, and are made in Fl. for the shallow water there. Several, I know of, have sailed to the Bahamas. Trailer weight of ours with gear and trailer is probably about 5500 lbs. Ours has the inboard diesel (yanmar 1gm10). Easy to launch from most ramps. Usually an hour and a half to get the mast up. We don't usually trailer sailor it, as we keep it slipped. We do trailer it to other cruising grounds, if we have at least a week's vacation, or more to play with. The effort just isn't worth it to me for any less than a week. As with any boat, there are tradeoffs, but it's a pretty ideal tailerable cruising boat.


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## Lazerbrains (Oct 25, 2015)

oldragbaggers said:


> A better choice, in my opinion, would be a Bristol 24.
> 
> Best of luck!


Probably one of the best "blue water" boats under 30 feet - couldn't agree more. Standing headroom, 6' 6" berths, 50% ballast with a full keel and better motion comfort/capsize ratio than most 32' boats. I've sailed in one before in 35+ winds and 15 foot seas and was amazed at how calmly she handled it. Strongly built too...

Unfortunately, difficult to trailer launch, and as you said, not the most storage. Probably enough for Fl to the caribbean though..


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

Don0190 said:


> "trailer-able bluewater pocket cruiser" - just the phase cracks me up :laugher
> 
> And then to just go from Fl to the Bahamas. And then they want to be able to scuba dive from it. :laugher
> 
> Someone needs to just go do some sailing.


don
Why does this crack you up? Many do it!

OP

you can find many bluewater cruisers that can be trailered.

Check out an Alberg 30.

Yves Gelinas of Capehorn windvanes finds the Alberg 30 the perfect boat for what you asked for a Bluewater pocket cruiser. He has more mils at sea than most all the arm chair sailors and dock queens on this site COMBINED on his Alberg 30. He states one of the reasons is because it will go 55mph to windward being towed by a Suburban.

heres a link: 
30 Years with an Alberg 30


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

OP states he wants to launch from a trailer. That restricts him to a swing keel. The "blue water" reference was a mistake he only wants to do Lauderdale to Bahamas


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

sharkbait said:


> OP states he wants to launch from a trailer. That restricts him to a swing keel. The "blue water" reference was a mistake he only wants to do Lauderdale to Bahamas


thank you for clarifying. but a bluewater trailerable boat is definitely not laughable...many have done it and all it takes is a bit of thinking outside the box and a desire to go places


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Cruiser2B said:


> thank you for clarifying. but a bluewater trailerable boat is definitely not laughable...


I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to find anything I what funny. Just because it's been done in no way changes it.


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

Cruiser2B said:


> thank you for clarifying. but a bluewater trailerable boat is definitely not laughable...many have done it and all it takes is a bit of thinking outside the box and a desire to go places


You're preaching to the choir here. I regularly do offshore passages in my little Cal.


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

Don0190 said:


> I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to find anything I what funny. Just because it's been done in no way changes it.


You sure can think its funny. I have no problem with that, but I asked you why is this cracks you up. Maybe you give some explanation as to why you have these thoughts in which we disagree. I provided an example of someone who has used a Suburban to tow a boat with 35,000 bluewater miles under her keel. Definitely doable and it is not a real stretch of the imagination. Just curious what makes you think this. Is that wrong of me? Maybe you have some real experiences to share with the sailors here on Sailnet and internet in which you may be able to sway my or even Yves opinion on a trailerable "bluewater" boat.


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## newt (Mar 15, 2008)

Nobody has mentioned the Catalina 27's. Big for their time, now ubiquitous they are trailed by a large pickup. I would ramp launch it every spring and get it out of the water every fall with my pickup. At 4 foot draft, I didn't know I couldn't do that, I just did! Early Catalina's have circumnavigated, they are a seaworthy design.
My biggest problem with them are the light rigging and cheap production. I personally would not circumnavigate with one. But going to the Bahamas should not be a problem, and they are big enough to stow a little scuba gear, just make sure you completely unload the boat before you try and drag her up the ramp!
Hey- not ideal, but can be done.


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

newt said:


> Nobody has mentioned the Catalina 27's. Big for their time, now ubiquitous they are trailed by a large pickup. I would ramp launch it every spring and get it out of the water every fall with my pickup. At 4 foot draft, I didn't know I couldn't do that, I just did! Early Catalina's have circumnavigated, they are a seaworthy design.
> My biggest problem with them are the light rigging and cheap production. I personally would not circumnavigate with one. But going to the Bahamas should not be a problem, and they are big enough to stow a little scuba gear, just make sure you completely unload the boat before you try and drag her up the ramp!
> Hey- not ideal, but can be done.


catalina 27 is a good boat, especially earlier ones. i believe john Vigor lists it in his book.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

There is a nice Cape Dory 26 on a trailer in Charleston SC for under 10 grand. Very sturdy little cruiser.
Cape Dory 26&apos; Sailboat with Trailer | eBay


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

Are the ramps in south Fl steep enough for 4' draft?


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## newt (Mar 15, 2008)

sharkbait said:


> Are the ramps in south Fl steep enough for 4' draft?


I have no idea as I sailed my 27 on Utah lake.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

sharkbait said:


> Are the ramps in south Fl steep enough for 4' draft?


Florida has an online boat ramp finder. It doesn't indicate ramp depths, but there are phone numbers that can probably provide that information.

https://public.myfwc.com/LE/boatramp/public/CountyMap.aspx


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

I was just curious. I've never ramp launched a boat.


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## Pauly Dangerous (Jan 31, 2016)

How about the West Wight Potter 19 blue water?


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

sharkbait said:


> Are the ramps in south Fl steep enough for 4' draft?


In my experience, with very few exceptions, the answer is "no."

Most of the exceptions that I found, by the way, were privately maintained ramps where you would have to pay a significant fee. As opposed to public ramps where there are often no fees at all, or the fees are very modest.

That is why my strong suggestion would be, if you intend to regularly use a ramp to launch and retrieve, you look for something with as shallow a draft as possible. Two feet is okay. Three feet is stretching it. Anything more and your ramp choices are going to be very, very limited.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I have been considering down sizing to a trailerable sailboat myself, with the idea of sailing Cape Breton, Newfoundland, Labrador and maybe even the Bahamas.

I am a little surprised to see the mention of the Alberg 30 as trailerable due to its 8'8" beam, which would require an over width permit where I am from.

Another boat that might be considered trailerable but not ramp launchable is a Contessa 26. An 18 year old girl did a solo circumnavigation on one of them.

I have a couple of Canadian made boats on my list too, I would probably beef them up a bit, but I think there are quite a few boats that are up to the task if you drop the ramp launchable requirement, provided the skipper is competent. Edit: it just occured to me the Canadian made comment didn't make any sense, since both Albergs and Contessa 26's were made in Canada.

I have no intention of any kind of trans oceanic sailing, if that is what is meant by blue water, but if it can safely make the 100 or so miles from Cape Breton to Newfoundland, that's all I need.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

Pauly Dangerous said:


> I'd like to buy a sailboat that I can tow with my Suburban 2500 and launch from the trailer in Ft. Lauderdale and sail to the Bahamas safely. I'd be going SCUBA diving so easy access to the water would be ideal. Any suggestions?


Easy access to the water is the most difficult part, as most of your very sturdy boats aren't going to have open transoms.

Trailerable, as others have mentioned there are quite a few extremely seaworthy boats that size. The trouble will be finding a steep enough ramp, or failing that, using a lift/crane, which are available at certain locations. Its just a matter of differentiating between sturdy enough for this specific task, or truly "blue water" (as much as that term will make people's heads spontaneously combust around here). The Flicka has been mentioned, and it is a legit blue water cruiser at 20 feet if you want to make it work. Same with the Nor'Sea 27 (several of them have circumnavigated), but that's much more challenging to trailer. It was designed as such, but still. A lot of work. Quite a haul:









Though, I know a couple in BC who haul one from Vancouver to San Diego and back every year. Yikes.

There's also the PSC Dana 24, which is also a legitimate world cruiser in its own right...but you will PAY for it. I like the Dana 24, but I think its one of the most overpriced non-custom boats around: 









There is a school of thought (that you'll find here as well as anywhere else) that seaworthiness is determined by LOA, as opposed to actual seaworthiness. This is flatly wrong. Good luck.


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