# Careening a 45 foot Ketch



## Pilothouse_Ketch

Hi,

I am a newibe and own a 45 foot pilothouse ketch with a hole in the port side. I am in the process of re floating her, but I am looking for a place to careen her over and patch the hole. Does anyone know of any good sandbar/beach in the North Chesapeake Bay that can be used for that purpose. Currently the boat is in the Susquehanna River against a wall

Many Thanks,


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## miatapaul

Normally careening is done for short term work such as bottom paint, and a bit of hope and prayer that it will dry before the tide comes up, not sure if I would want to try fiberglass repair that way except for in an emergency. I would suggest getting hauled out into the nearest DIY friendly yard. What kind of boat is it? If she is wood you may have a little bit harder time finding a yard that will accept her.


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## Pilothouse_Ketch

The hull is ferro-cement. Right now I need to make a temp repair. Later I can have the hull hauled out and make a correct repair


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## Waterrat

Where and what size is the hole? What are you doing to temporarily fix the hole? What is the draft of your vessel? How do you plan to move her to hypothetical sand bar? Seems if you can float her next to a pier or sea wall it would be best to institute temporary fix there to get her hauled out. Sounds like and interesting quagmire I am sure many of us would love to hear the details. Picture really ping the interest. Good luck.


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## hpeer

We need more info to help. Careening is unlikely. 

You really need to get her hauled, and if you can't afford that...well, you need to be able to afford that to make progress.


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## Pilothouse_Ketch

Right now I can't get to the hole safely, so I don't know the size or the location except it is on the starboard side.

Since I don't have permission nor likely to obtain permission from the owner of the wall, using the wall as an aid for repairs is not an option, hence the sandbar approach. There happens to be a lot of sandbars in the northern part of the Chesapeake.

The first option for a temporary repair is to cover holes(s) with plywood using epoxy putty around the edges. On the inside a couple of 2 X 6s would be used to to fasten the plywood to. If the hole is small enough then chicken wire and swimming pool putty may do.


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## Pilothouse_Ketch

Well until she floats, I really cannot find a yard that will take her. I am looking for a DIY yard. Attached are before and after pics


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## deltaten

A 45+ ft boat with a ,what?, 6 ft.draft?
N. Chessie and the Susquehanna have normal 3 foot tide range. Don't think careening will work up here:shrugs:
Ya might haft a go further South to get a better tidal range and deeper water? IDK?

Perhaps more info on placement of the hole, size and gen'l condition;with draft and displacement might help?

I'km on the Northeast side, inside Bay Boat Works. Give them a call and see what they say about pulling ya out an putting you up. in the "Amen" corner.

note: Just saw the pics....OMG ! Needs more'n a patch, don't it.? Lots a luck to ya..


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## Pilothouse_Ketch

Yes this is very much a project boat. It sank on the owner before me after he own it for 4 days.


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## miatapaul

That's not a boat, it is a reef. I hope you got paid a lot to take her off the owner's hands. I think you are going to have to call a salvage company to get her to a yard, they have bags they can put under the boat and fill with air. Not a good sign when you need scuba gear to do a survey! First thing to try use a gas powered pump and some sort of compressor to see if you can get it floating, and you might be able to get it to a yard. You might be able to get her to float by using 55 gallon drums and strap them all along side the boat then filling them with air with a compressor. Lots of yards are not going to be comfortable with this being brought into the yard as projects like this are often, in fact in almost all cases, abandoned. They are then stuck with disposing of the mess after selling it a few times for back yard fees. I hope there is no oil or fuel on board or the EPA may get involved and you may owe them a few hundred grand. You might want to try the myth busters method and fill the boat up with ping pong balls that might get it floating. Keep in mind that careening a boat on a sand bar is kind of like using the median of a highway as a place to pull and rebuild a motor. If anyone comes up and claims salvage you may have problems in court, but all you have to do is tell them it is a ferro cement and they will leave it alone. Also yards will want insurance coverage, and it may be impossible to get insurance on this. Feral boats are hard to insure when in good shape. Sad part is you are many tens of thousands of dollars from having a floating tub that you may be able to sell for $10,000. It may be something as simple as a bad thruhull, or it could be a big hole. 

If you have not transferred the title to your name yet, you might be better off returning it to the owner!


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## TQA

If the info on pic one is correct that is a ferrocement boat and quite a fair one too.

The good news is ferrocement boats are easy and relatively inexpensive to repair but it needs to be hauled first. Good book on repairing ferrocement here Hartley boat building books and instructional CD's

You need to find the leak and plug it so she can be refloated. Plugging may need a a bit of 3/4 inch plywood held on by a couple of long bolts through a 2 x 4 on the inside. A wax toilet seal can be used as a seal or foam rubber plus epoxy the underwater kind.

Getting her back up will not be a trivial exercise. Crane ? expensive and may need a ground survey first. Flotation bags and pumps are usually a pro job. A few 55 gallon drums are not going to cut it.

There is a long thread on a boat with a similar problem. He got it back up in the end. Crisis, help urgently needed.


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## Scotty C-M

You say the hole is on the port side. That is the side that is exposed if I'm looking at the picture correctly. A diver should be able to assess what the problem is and probably fix it (temporarily) in place. Is there some reason why this can't be done?

However, Mitapaul is correct. There are a huge number of difficulties in this project. If this is not legally your boat at this time, you may want to back out of the deal. If you do go forward, consider making a deal with a yard to get it on the hard in some manner so that you can do things correctly. Good luck to you.


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## hpeer

So, knowing way to little to be of much help....just idle speculation really.....

If it is a mashed area with water infiltrating you might get by with toilet bowl wax. Do you know the circumstances of the sinking? 

The next option might be to try hupydraulic cement. I haven't had great luck with it but others seem to think highly of it. You MAY be able to mash enough in over the hole to get her up. 

The good news is both are cheap and available at a Lowes or Home Depot. I think I would favor the cement.

But you are gonna have to stop the down flooding first.

Interesting project.

Tell us what you know about the holing.


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## hpeer

Elsewhere on the forum Nauticalnomad linked to this site. Though it might be useful to you.

The World of Ferroboats


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## Bleemus

Okay. I am going to be the first to ask. Why are you taking possession of a boat that is sunk? Did the owner pay you what it will cost for a salvage crew to refloat it? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## WanderingStar

I share the concerns about the boat. I have seen people go broke trying to raise a holed classic. I've seen the same boat sold for a dollar and raised quickly by experts.
If you are committed to this boat, plywood, epoxy, wax, softwood plugs work. I have used hydraulic cement to patch gouges in wood below the waterline. Mix it as thick as you can.
Consider that everything inside the boat may need replacement. I am not trying to throw cold water on your dreams, I just hope you think this through thoroughly. Good luck and please report your results.


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## smackdaddy

Pilothouse_Ketch said:


> Well until she floats, I really cannot find a yard that will take her. I am looking for a DIY yard. Attached are before and after pics


I'd pay money for the before. You couldn't pay me enough for the after.


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## Pilothouse_Ketch

Thanks That is the general plan, repair with plywood and 2X4s


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## stpabr

I thought she was holed on the Starboard side, the side laying on the RipRap! She's laying against the bulkhead at the LogPond next to my Marina, I remember well the day she went down. If possible plug and brace from inside the hull to slow any ingress of water, using several High Capacity pumps. The week\summer she went down, that portion of the river had several barges with cranes working on the bridges just north. That would have been prime time to salvage. For the Plugging and Bracing, use plastic and cushions against the breach, then plywood over that, then 2x or 4x as braces to hold the patch in place. This should get her Floating so it can be towed. 

Good Luck,
Stephen
S/V New Wind
Cabo Rico 38


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## Waterrat

Best of luck and keep us posted. No matter how crazy your endeavor appears, it is always nice to see someone save a boat.


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## miatapaul

Waterrat said:


> Best of luck and keep us posted. No matter how crazy your endeavor appears, it is always nice to see someone save a boat.


I love seeing boats get saved, but it is a shame to see folks throw there life savings into something that has little chance of a positive outcome. I am working on a boat that I will not likely see most of what I sink into her, but it is limited in dollars invested. This boat has been under water for long enough that she is not likely to see the water again. A real shame as she looks like she was nice at one point. This thing is going to take 50,000 to 60,000 minimum to get back into water. Interior woodwork alone is going to be a lot of money. New bulkheads, new furniture framing. New engine for a boat this size is going to be to be $20,000 minimum. Electrical will all need replacement, another several thousand there just in materials(I am doing a simple 33 foot boat and am at close to a thousand in materials alone on just the shore power system, have not started the 12 volt system). Sails likely need to be replaced, another what $10,000 for reasonable ones. New cushions and upholstery is at least another $10,000 if it can be done by themselves, my 33 footer is looking like at least 4 grand in materials alone for cushions. Winches that have been under salt water for several months are likely toast, another 10 grand..... A boat this size is not boat bucks but 10's of boat bucks per issue. Heck new running rigging is likely to be five grand.

My guess is that if it makes it to a yard, it will never leave on it's own bottom. Just from observation.

Here is a good read, and might have a few good ideas:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...-related/51684-well-my-day-really-sucked.html

does not end well, and this guy had lots of help, ingenuity and energy. Likely the most sad thread ever. Shame to as it was a really nice boat, and a lot smaller and in an easier situation than this boat.

I don't want to be Debbie downer, but not seeing much else for this boat.


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## DivingOtter

I've floated many a ships by doing what's called a tooker patch. Neoprene or rubber on both outer and inner hull with threaded rod to sandwich it together, then use lift bags get it to the surface and throw trash pumps to dewater her. If they're steel, then I weld a patch. And do the same process. Easy peasy.


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## midwesterner

I'm a person who has often been guilty of unrealistic dreaming and cheerleading lost causes so I really wish you the best of luck and look forward to hearing how it turns out.


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## albrazzi

How long has it been sunk? I'm seeing some pretty heavy gunk on the lifelines in the one photo. A sunk boat of this size is an Immensely difficult job compounded by the time in the water. I've seen boats sink in the slip and brought up the next day and its a losing proposition, this is crazy. I'm assuming the last 4 months have shown no progress.


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