# Moody 425 as a bluewater cruiser



## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Since mentioning them in another thread a couple months ago we have now started looking very closely at Moody 425's as a potential boat for a family of 4 to do some extended cruising.

Does anyone familiar with them have an opinion or any advice?

We also like the Hallberg Rassy 45, which while a touch bigger is almost twice the price. 

Any known issues we should keep an eye out for?

The reason for two European boats is that we are looking at purchasing in Europe and sailing back this way at a leisurely pace. I know there are comparable North American centre cockpit boats and they are also definitely on our list, the other factor for us is the Aus $ being the way it is at the moment our money goes further buying a boat in Euros rather than US $.


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## robert sailor (Jun 22, 2015)

We own and sail a Moody 425. We bought it in Greece and sailed the Med for a couple of years before crossing over to the Caribbean this year. We have spent lots of time and money to completely refit the boat for our purposes and we would be happy to answer any questions you might have or pm us if you like. They are great boats that are well built with very workable interior layouts that work well offshore and at anchor. They are also good sailing boats and surprise many with good passage times. We had several 170 mile plus days on our crossing without working the boat. Hard to go wrong with this design but make sure you get a good survey.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Thanks Robert.

Have sent you a PM.

They seem to be a great boat, and by the looks of it well suited to our needs.


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## robert sailor (Jun 22, 2015)

Got your PM and wrote you a fairly lengthy response only to find that I don't have enough posts to PM you so if you would like to give me an email address I will forward it to you there, Cheers, Robert


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Sorry Robert  I was of the belief that if responding to my PM you should be able to... 

Will PM you my email address.


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## robert sailor (Jun 22, 2015)

I forwarded the message to you, Robert


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Chall .... we had a look at a Moody in NZ when we were out looking. I'd always fancied the 425 though the one we saw was big brother, somewhere around 48' from memory. Damn that was a big boat. Huge. Nonetheless if it had been the 425 I think we might well have gone for her. Even back then cheaper than our Malo and gave the impression of being a very solid gal. 

Good layout, very comfortable saloon and aft cabin. Various people did make mention of some quality control problems with Moodys of that vintage.


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## robert sailor (Jun 22, 2015)

I'm not sure the people who talked about quality control were properly informed. Stories always get embellished and added to over time. The only problems I am aware of was a 39 foot Moody built in the 70's that featured an underbuilt skeg and a less than sturdy rudder that failed while crossing the Indian Ocean. You may or may not know that all Moody's were built to Loyd's of London specs and in this case Loyd's were sued as well. Seemed that someone had reduced the size of the skeg and even Loyd's were not properly informed. Anyways the customer was successful in his lawsuit and Moody, a 150 year old company did not go unpunished. (Imagine if all the owners of modern production boats that loose rudders today could successfully sue a company)

All Moody's thereafter were designed by Bill Dixon including the 425 and they featured a very large and robust 1/2 skeg and semi balanced rudder which has been almost bullet proof. I am aware of a couple of Moody's that did have rudder/skeg damage but they were both in severe groundings. I'm not aware of any failures at sea.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

robert sailor said:


> I'm not sure the people who talked about quality control were properly informed.


Oh you may well be right, I'm only repeating what I was told. From memory the issues were more to do with general fitout than structural problems and from I saw of the bigger boat in NZ she was built like the proverbial brick outhouse. To me the 425 simply looks like a throughly competent, handsome and well thought out design, which I'd expect from a Dixon.

btw ... if I remember rightly most of the feedback I got re Moody was from the YBW forum.


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## robert sailor (Jun 22, 2015)

Yes sailing forums are sure full of information but much of it is here say and very little if any evidence to support many of the opinions expressed when it comes to boat building. The Moody's built thru the mid 80's and on actually have a very large and faithful following and have held their prices very well over the years. ( Look up the Moody's Owners Group and have a boo as I think the membership is around 2000 enthusiastic owners.)As I am sure you are very aware these boats while built very well will need refitting if they have not been really well kept up and you can spend almost the original purchase price on a refit so it really doesn't pay to buy a boat needing a lot of work thinking you may have gotten a good deal. If you buy any production boat older than 10-15 years old you can expect to also have to refit it as well so if you find a 25 year old Moody that has been recently refit it may very well be a better buy than a newer production boat. There are many well built older boats to choose from depending on your sailing needs, the Moody is just one of them.


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

tdw said:


> Chall .... we had a look at a Moody in NZ when we were out looking.


Hi TDW,

Was the Moody 425 called Mischief? Some friends brought a Moody 425 I believe from NZ and brought it accross to Fremantle, then crossed the Indian Ocean and cruised in thr Med. I think they sold the boat and looks like it is now in Panama. So that's at least two oceans that Mischief has crossed.

Ilenart


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Thanks All,

I have got your email's Robert, that is truly fantastic information, thankyou so much for taking the time. I am going through it all now and will send you back a reply and possibly a couple of questions! 

TD - I have yet to meet one, but on the face of they seem to fit our needs to a tee. The layout of accommodation with the bunks in the passageway(while probably a waste for most cruising couples) suit those of us with rugrats. We also have a predisposition to centre cockpits  The sailing attributes seem to be on the money for us as well. 

Our boat shopping had become frustrating, I am basically underwhelmed by Australian boats in our size/price range. They tend to be either too old and tatty, too expensive( Bluewater 400, The Martz 46) steel or one offs. We are also looking at Peterson 44/46's, Bristols and other North American boats but if buying in the US the Aussie $ bites us now than the Euro. 

Given that I don't mind the idea of cruising the med as a shakedown and then bringing a boat this way buying in Europe is starting to appeal. 

Mischief was one of the boats we were considering as there was the possibility of a mid Pacific delivery, I heard it may now be off the market.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

I've always liked the Moody models, and would personally consider one for the OP's purpose. Be sure to check the keel bolts on older boats, here are some pictures of the bolts of an 80's version which were being replaced in the yard.


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## robert sailor (Jun 22, 2015)

sailingfool said:


> I've always liked the Moody models, and would personally consider one for the OP's purpose. Be sure to check the keel bolts on older boats, here are some pictures of the bolts of an 80's version which were being replaced in the yard.


Hi There,
I'm trying to understand the picture of the keel bolts. Can you explain the wood/steel in the photos


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

robert sailor said:


> Hi There,
> I'm trying to understand the picture of the keel bolts. Can you explain the wood/steel in the photos


After the nuts were removed, the keel was "dropped" by raising the hull which was then rested on the wood blocks, allowing access to the bolts. At the time I took the pictures, the hull was raised in the crane. I believe the plastic cups held penetrating liquid for soaking the bolts for removal.


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## robert sailor (Jun 22, 2015)

sailingfool said:


> After the nuts were removed, the keel was "dropped" by raising the hull which was then rested on the wood blocks, allowing access to the bolts. At the time I took the pictures, the hull was raised in the crane. I believe the plastic cups held penetrating liquid for soaking the bolts for removal.


Which model and year was the boat and how did the other bolts look?


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

I have Dixon designed Moody with the bolts recently replaced. It was done in the water and cost something less than $1200.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

robert sailor said:


> Which model and year was the boat and how did the other bolts look?


I dont recall if it was a 38 or 42 but an '80s vintage. The pictures were of the two worst bolts, several others had minor erosion.


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## robert sailor (Jun 22, 2015)

sailingfool said:


> I dont recall if it was a 38 or 42 but an '80s vintage. The pictures were of the two worst bolts, several others had minor erosion.


Thanks for that, its always a good idea to pull a few bolts to check them,especially on the older boats fortunately it is not too hard. These boats could loose a few bolts and still have no problems but it doesn't make sense not to have checked every few years.Still much better and stronger than stainless.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

We are continuing to research 425's but are now considering the Moody 44 and 42, it's more contemporary cousins. 

In some ways I prefer the 425 over the 44/42 but I am not informed at all, does anyone have anything to add in terms of differences/preferences here?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

chall ..... What do you prefer about the 425 compared to the 44 ?


I've just realised that I missed a post by ILENART, that was some months back. Colour me embarassed. Nonetheless, the Moody we inspected in NZ wasn't a 425. She was closer to 50'.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

tdw said:


> chall ..... What do you prefer about the 425 compared to the 44 ?


I think mainly layout. There is technically more berths but the 44 has a starboard bunk cabin forward of the mast that I would imagine would get pretty exciting on passage making it largely useless to us. The 'passage' berth next to engine bay is then a single rather than a double. The saloon on the early 44's is all curvy and bright in the fashion of the 90s. (Ken Done drink coasters would fit right in )

While they are 'newer' I doubt the difference between 25 year old and 20 year boats makes much difference and typically they seem to be 30%-40% more expensive than a 425.

I would imagine though the extra displacement/waterline would deliver improved performance slightly, and they have a more modern rig with swept back spreaders and a split backstay.

Now the 42 is a good option and we are into the 2000s but they seem to come with sail drives and pricetags.

However this I will readily admit is largely supposition, which is why I am asking the question.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Whoa ! Yes, I see what you mean. Not my idea of a good layout (44) at all whereas I find the 425 interior most appealing.










edit - I notice that some of the 44s have a more conventional interior as per the 425 but even so I still prefer having a straight settee.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

tdw said:


> Whoa ! Yes, I see what you mean. Not my idea of a good layout (44) at all whereas I find the 425 interior most appealing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It got better in the later 44's. They obviously had received sufficient feedback to revert the design somewhat.

Looking at heading over to Europe in the New Year to look at a few 425's.


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## Gusman (Jan 30, 2019)

Hi Robert,

i know i am jumping on a 5 year old post but we are just in the process of buying a 425 for an ocean crossing and would be really interedted to hear what you diod to your boat.
if you could PM me as i'm unable to.


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## sailforlife (Sep 14, 2016)

I love MOODY sailboats! they are great!


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Hey Gusman, 

I have responded to your PM.

Robert isn't active on here anymore but I believe he is still reasonably active on another sailing forum known as Cruisers forum. ( A google search will lead you in the right direction). 

In fact I recall reading a recent post from him over here about subsequent upgrades to his Moody, including specifically about re engining her. From all reports I would almost suggest his boat is one of the best kept examples of a Moody 425 out there. 

Have you bought a Moody 425 yet and what exactly are your plans? I would also be interested in comparing notes with you!


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I have gotten an up-close and personal view of Moody's from the era of the 425. From what I have seen, these boats are not all that well built. While the finish work is very nice, details such as the fiberglass work at the shroud attachment points, rigging details, hardware size, engine installation details, and so on, are a mix of poorly constructed, hard to maintain, and haphazardly detailed and engineered. 

Moody's, like many European boats have cast iron keels with steel keel bolts. Cast iron keels provide less effective ballasting, and require much more maintenance than a lead keel. Keel bolt replacement on a cast iron keel is much easier and less expensive than on a typical lead keel, the replacement cycle is a PIA for a long term distance cruiser.

The Moody's of this era were round bottomed (lacking in damping, and initial stability) which when combined with the cast iron keel, results in a tender boat that tends to roll excessively. The lack of stability means these boats need to be reefed early and do not easily transition from moderate winds to higher winds. They are also well under canvassed making them poor light air boats. 

While the cabin layouts are nice for coastal cruising, these are not particularly good offshore cruising layouts, lacking the kind of storage that distance cruisers require.

Jeff


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## Gusman (Jan 30, 2019)

Hi Jeff, thanks for your view, what boat would you choose over a Moody for ocean passages in a similar price band?
Be interested to hear what experience you have with Moodys. A lot of owners and ex owners hold them in very good regard and have done ocean passages on them.


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## robert sailor (Jun 22, 2015)

Id like to respond to Jeff's comments about the 425. Everyone has their own opinions and in general I respect his opinions, however in this case I don't agree with them.
To begin with the Moody 425 is structurally a well built boat, the hulls were laid up by Princess Marine and they had an excellent reputation for producing well built boats. It has longitudinal stringers glassed into the hull fore and aft adding stiffness to the hull, as well, all bulkheads are both glassed into the hull, as well as thru bolted completely around the bulkheads. The keel is carried on a well built stub rather than simply being bolted to a flat spot of the bottom of the boat.
The rigging is very stout and it carries double lowers as well as intermediate shrouds, which allows the main to be let out much further than boats with swept spreaders...which are always a pain running down wind. All the original British stainless steel is excellent and much better than you'll get on newer boats. The rudder is a half skeg which in my mind is the best of both worlds, and the skeg is built very well. The steering is light and very easy. It makes it extremely easy on the autopilot even in large seas. 
Like Jeff I would have preferred a lead keel rather than iron, but even boats as nicely built as the Amel carry iron keels so I guess it just depends on where you spend your money. I don't consider the boat under canvassed for offshore sailing, its well within what you'd expect for a cruising boat. Crossing the Atlantic we averaged close to 155 mile days with no motoring as we lost our motor on that passage. We got 5 days in the mid 170's so you know if the wind is there this boat can make tracks. Our previous boat was a Tartan 44 and while the Tartan was faster on any point of sail forward of the beam, the Moody 425 is faster broad reaching and running. As far as storage, there is lots of storage on the 425 and if you like to add mods you can increase it even more. The forward deck is great for working on even in a good seaway. My wife and I made several pole changes in the middle of the night offshore and while no boat is great for that, we had no issues. The hulls are well laid up and are plenty thick....they are also laid up with Vinylester rather than polyester resin, so blisters have never been an issue... as in zero blistering. When the boat is at sea its very stable and runs downwind faster and with far less rolling than our Tartan, so while I don't have Jeff's experience as a naval architect, I do have tons of time making passages on this boat, so I know exactly what it sails like. Our boat doesn't even have a single crack in the gelcoat and its had plenty of hard sea miles on it. In my mind after well over 50,000 miles of offshore sailing in several boats, the Moody 425 has become my favorite offshore boat.
So for those folks looking for a centre cockpit cruising boat your going to be hard pressed to beat the Moody 425 when it comes to value for the dollar.
Now all boats have some things that they are lacking in and the Moody 425 is no different. In my opinion the short falls are as follows
The dodger is limited in size due to boom height and location of traveler.
The chain plates are covered up with built-in cabinets/furniture and on these boats they need yearly inspection as well as renewing the bedding every year. Its a pain to gain access and install inspection plates, but it can be done and must be done as leaks can migrate into the bulkheads and compromise the rigging.
The bilge is not as deep as I would like, so while it does have a deep spot under the companion way stairs, its not as well done as Id like.
My wife doesn't like the shower in the aft head, but few boats of this size have walk ins...shes a tough customer, LOL.
The original engines were marinized Ford engines and lack the power of a modern diesel, it hurt our pocket book to change ours, but after comparing the old engine to the new Beta its like a different world. Our boat gives up something going to weather, the Tartan loved that point of sail and was very quick, the Moody 425 not so much, but its not a compromise that has ever kept me awake, its not as fast nor will it point as high as the Tartan, but its hard to find the perfect boat unless you have an unlimited budget. We have run into a couple of other Moody 425's that have all crossed oceans and their owners all praised their toughness and good manners.. Robert PS The Moody 425 has a New England PHRF rating in the mid to high 90's and another cruising boat I have always liked was the Kelly Peterson 44 which rates 114 so even if you compare it with some light weights like the Hunter you'll find its ratings are equal or faster. Its not a light weight speedster but its certainly no slouch either. The designer, Bill Dixon has a wonderful reputation of designing great offshore boats, hes still at it but tends to only design much larger and more expensive boats these days....The Moody Owners Association is an amazing organization, very active and very professional for those seeking more information.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

It's interesting timing that this thread has bee resurrected!

As the OP of this thread I can hopefully soon confirm that I am the new owner of a Moody 425. We are waiting on survey so for the moment i am remaining a touch circumspect but fingers crossed and when we close the deal I will provide a full write up.

After beginning this thread in 2015 my daughter was diagnosed with a heart condition. Her health journey over the past couple of years has been such that we have held off several times biting the bullet on a bigger boat and long term cruising until things were resolved.



Jeff_H said:


> I have gotten an up-close and personal view of Moody's from the era of the 425. From what I have seen, these boats are not all that well built.


I am surprised to hear this Jeff and like Robert cannot agree. Interestingly I have heard a couple of other North American sailors I respect say similar things. Is there just a dud Moody floating around the Cheasepeake or something?

As the OP of this thread I have now inspected probably close to a dozen Moody 425's, 42's and 40's since 2015. I have sailed and even raced on a friends Moody 425 and I find them to be well built boats. Not to the extent of a Hallberg Rassy, but IMHO they are a step up from many others.



Jeff_H said:


> Moody's, like many European boats have cast iron keels with steel keel bolts. Cast iron keels provide less effective ballasting, and require much more maintenance than a lead keel. Keel bolt replacement on a cast iron keel is much easier and less expensive than on a typical lead keel, the replacement cycle is a PIA for a long term distance cruiser.


Yeah I don't love the Iron Keel, however I don't necessarily think the maintenance is a deal breaker.



Jeff_H said:


> The Moody's of this era were round bottomed (lacking in damping, and initial stability) which when combined with the cast iron keel, results in a tender boat that tends to roll excessively. The lack of stability means these boats need to be reefed early and do not easily transition from moderate winds to higher winds.


Interesting to hear your thoughts on this. I have not heard any owners reports along these lines but I do respect your take on yacht design.



Jeff_H said:


> They are also well under canvassed making them poor light air boats.


Under canvassed? I think that is subjective but it is fair to say they are firmly in the 'cruiser' category of boat yes. From what I understand of your preference in terms of performance and design they are not your kind of boat.

As a cruising boat though I have heard very good performance reports. Clearly they are not light air performancers. I believe though this can be said about several other comparable cruising designs. No great surprise.



Jeff_H said:


> While the cabin layouts are nice for coastal cruising, these are not particularly good offshore cruising layouts, lacking the kind of storage that distance cruisers require.


This I disagree fairly strongly with. Perhaps you are generalising about Moody's and look I am guessing you have not spent time specifically on a 425. The storage is great for a boat this size and with a good accomodation layout for both in port and passage. All boats are compromises, if there is a negative here it is they are tough light on tankage IMHO.

But for us, a family of four, wanting to voyage and take on a friend or crew occasionally we are hard pressed to find another boat with a better layout _for us_.

I generally believe the adage 'All boats are compromises' and also I would point out that when looking at boats in this era and price bracket the individual condition of any boat and the level of care by previous owners starts to become as important as the design and original build.


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

I hope and trust that your daughter is doing better.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

paulinnanaimo said:


> I hope and trust that your daughter is doing better.


Thankyou 

She is indeed, an operation has resolved her issue and she is now fighting fit.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Chall, I want to start by saying that I am glad that it sounds like your daughter's prognosis has improved and hopefully her health issue will quickly be relegated toi the rrear view mirror of her life. 

On the subject of Moody's in general, and the 425 in specific, I will start by saying that there certainly is a fair amount of subjectivity to a discussion like this, and I readily acknowledge that my viewpoint often is at odds with the court of public opinion. And while much that I expound is clearly just my opinion, and represents my particular biases, I try to at least base my comments on my observations or published information without necessary stating that whatever the boat is, no should buy one of these for any purpose.

On the other hand, one someone says they want to buy a specific boat for a specific purpose I try to filter my comments for that specific purpose. I also tend to filter my comments relative to other options out there to choose from. In the case of the Moody's, my comments are based on where they would fall on a spectrum between 'Ideal for offshore distance cruising' and 'not on your life'. From my perspective the Moody falls in the 'dooable but we'll less than ideal' category. 

Here is my explanation of why I hold that opinion. (I apologise that this will probably be a long post.)

I will start by discussing my build quality comments. I will readily acknowledge that I have not gotten close up and personal with a 425, but I have with a Moody 34 from this era. I am friends with Vince and Amy from the Sailing Nervous series on YouTube, and have been assisting them with technical advice and actual assistance working on thier boat, which is the Moody 34 in question. Much of what I am commenting on can be seen in their videos.

I also understand that the 425 may be constructed to a different standard than the 34, but it very rare that yards will employ different standards to a single line of boats from a single designer within the same time frame. 

Starting with my comments on construction details, I will cite a few specific examples of why U reached my opinion. One good example is the methods used to bond key structural components. One of the responses above commented on how well that person thought that the bulkheads are attached. Their description is very contrary to my observations. 
Normally on a well built boat, especially one intended for offshore use, a primary structural bulkhead would have a multi layer, tapered tabbing, and generally that tabbing is either bi-directional fabric or at least a woven fabric.

On the 34, the tabbing is predominantly a single course of non-woven fabric with minimal faying surfaces. This condition can clearly be seen in the episode where they removed the casework to inspect the chainplates. In some locations the tabbing is discontinuous. 

In the case of the knees that the aft lower shroud attaches to, the knee is raw plywood, without any form of sealant to protect the wood from water entering via a deck leak. 

Normally a plywood knee would be coated minimally with polyester, to shed surface water, and would be more fully encapsulated in glass on a boat intended for offshore use where leaks are more the norm rather than the exception. On a well built offshore purposed boat, the glass from the tabbing would extend behind the bolts for the chainplates to allow a proper tightening of the bolts without crushing the wood. Making matters worse this knee is hidden behind casework that precludes routine inspection. 

In the case of the baby stay, the detail was a simple Tang slid through a slot in the deck held in place with a small diameter bar through the end of the tang that sits against the under side of the deck, and which is glassed to the deck in a manner which can trap water and accelerate the deterioration of the bar and tang and force water into the unprotected core. 
I
The baby stay attachment lacks any form of transverse framing, tension member, or attachment to the bulkhead leading to documented failures of the fitting and damage to the deck. 

The Moodys appear to be constructed using the preferred British method of framing. I personally am a big fan of this method of construction. To explain, early in the shift from wood to fiberglass construction, boat builders pretty much world wide adopted frameless construction. Fiberglass tends to flex a lot and is fatigue prone so flexing is the enemy of long life. To combat flexure, early boats had slightly thicker hull skins than the boats that followed. 

While many areas of the adopted cored hulls, the British and Commonwealth countries favored a system of closely spaced stringers and transverse bulkheads and framing. 

This system produces a very strong, stiff, and relatively light hull without the issues most folks associate with cored hulls. It is labor intensive to produce and makes it harder to install liners, but I personally consider it the best system for an offshore purposed glass vessel. 

But it requires a lot of care to do well. The materials used for the framing needs to carefully engineered and installed. Intersections between framing members need to be especially robust. On the 34 the stingers were glassed in with non-directional fabrics with little to no additional tapered reinforcement visible at the intersection of bulkheads and stringers. 

Part of my gripe with the Moody's concerns ease of maintenance. An example of this (beyond the comments on the hidden chainplates) would be simple things like the masthead details. 

On most boats, the rig is designed so that there is a way to remove and inspect and replace sheaves without taking down the mast. Moody employs a masthead design that requires that the entire masthead fitting to be removed to access the pin retaining the sheaves. That is no big deal on a coastal cruiser, but is a big deal for an offshore boat, especially one originally delivered with wire halyards. 

I can go on, but this is already getting long and I need to get on with my day so I will continue later with the rest of my explanation for my opinion.

Jeff


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Jeff_H said:


> On the subject of Moody's in general, and the 425 in specific, I will start by saying that there certainly is a fair amount of subjectivity to a discussion like this, and I readily acknowledge that my viewpoint often is at odds with the court of public opinion. And while much that I expound is clearly just my opinion, and represents my particular biases, I try to at least base my comments on my observations or published information without necessary stating that whatever the boat is, no should buy one of these for any purpose.


Jeff, I have always appreciated your write ups and discussions. Your approach is generally objective and always well reasoned. While it might be just your opinion, it is a highly educated one and I am always happy to hear it.



Jeff_H said:


> I will start by discussing my build quality comments. I will readily acknowledge that I have not gotten close up and personal with a 425, but I have with a Moody 34 from this era. I am friends with Vince and Amy from the Sailing Nervous series on YouTube, and have been assisting them with technical advice and actual assistance working on thier boat, which is the Moody 34 in question. Much of what I am commenting on can be seen in their videos.
> 
> I also understand that the 425 may be constructed to a different standard than the 34, but it very rare that yards will employ different standards to a single line of boats from a single designer within the same time frame.


I would note that the Moody 34 and the 425's were built in different eras. We are talking early 80's for the Moody 34 while my (hopefully) Moody 425 was built in 1991.

I have heard discussion on the Moody Owners Association that there were some issues with build quality in the early 80's Moodys and that build quality improved substantially throughout that decade.

From a market standpoint it had too. It's actually an interesting story of their demise. During the 90's it became clear to Moody that to survive they needed carve a niche and to compete with the 'prestige' brands such as Oyster as they could not compete on price with the mass produced European boats. Ultimately their undoing was that by the early 2000's they were just building too good, far too expensive boats without ever shaking their mediocre reputation and convincing the market that they were as prestige as Oyster.



Jeff_H said:


> Starting with my comments on construction details, I will cite a few specific examples of why U reached my opinion. One good example is the methods used to bond key structural components. One of the responses above commented on how well that person thought that the bulkheads are attached. Their description is very contrary to my observations.
> Normally on a well built boat, especially one intended for offshore use, a primary structural bulkhead would have a multi layer, tapered tabbing, and generally that tabbing is either bi-directional fabric or at least a woven fabric.
> 
> On the 34, the tabbing is predominantly a single course of non-woven fabric with minimal faying surfaces. This condition can clearly be seen in the episode where they removed the casework to inspect the chainplates. In some locations the tabbing is discontinuous.
> ...


Thanks Jeff this is helpful information and would appreciate your continuing thoughts when you get a chance. I do enjoy the Sailing nervous series, especially when it has featured Sailnet's very own Brad Pitt 

Not coincidentally the surveyor I am choosing to use is a former production manager for Moody, so I will have a conversation with him about some of these details. Additionally I would be very happy to give you/Vince/Amy his contact details if it would be of any help to them.


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## robert sailor (Jun 22, 2015)

Hey Jeff,
To begin with I don’t know anything about the earlier Moody 34 but I suspect it was designed as a coastal cruiser.
The 425 was indeed built much differently...the bulkheads and knees were all encapsulated in several layers of fibreglass and tabbed with 3 to 4 layers of woven cloth depending on location. The tabbing was then thru bolted every 8” or so to the bulkhead. Similar construction to their 54 which had a reputation of being over built. The only down side, which was shared by several good builders was that the top of the bulkhead was open in the space below the deck where the bulkhead was glassed to the area and if the chainplates were not being rebedded on a timely basis moisture could get into the top of the bulkhead. This did happen on a couple of the 425 fleet so it’s something that needs careful attention. The biggest issue was finished furniture that covered the normal areas of inspection followed by poor upkeep. I Installed inspection plates for all the attach points and keep an eye on it. This came up years ago on the Moody Owners group and it wasn’t long before most owners were carefully checking this area and from what I learned most of the fleet had no issues but it’s something to look out for. Fortunately the interior furniture is attached to the bulkheads and hull with screws and can be easily removed if repair was needed which is the way a good boat should be built but it’s much easier to simply maintain the boat well.
The 425 has no baby stay as it uses double lowers so no comment there. 
Always interesting to get other points of view....Cheers, Robert


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

To update my earlier comments in this thread, we are now the proud owners of a Moody 425. 

I would like to thank Robert especially for his generosity in providing sound advice on this model in the initial instance and continuing to do so in the couple of years since!


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

chall03 said:


> To update my earlier comments in this thread, we are now the proud owners of a Moody 425.
> 
> I would like to thank Robert especially for his generosity in providing sound advice on this model in the initial instance and continuing to do so in the couple of years since!


OMG! You listened to ROBERT!!!!!!!!????????????

:laugh

Its, OK, we spent a month or 2 in the same anchorage a few years ago.

Congratulations on your new boat. Smash a bottle of champagne on it and enjoy it 

Mark


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

:ship-captain: Congratulations!! Now, a few pictures, please....

:2 boat:


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> OMG! You listened to ROBERT!!!!!!!!????????????
> 
> :laugh
> 
> Its, OK, we spent a month or 2 in the same anchorage a few years ago.


He put up with you in the same anchorage for a month?


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

chall03 said:


> He put up with you in the same anchorage for a month?


He had no choice, his wife is very nice and we got on well.


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