# Thoughts on Nicro vs. Sunforce solar vents?



## ilikerust

So I've done a little research and have decided to put in at least one, and probably two, solar vent fans. One in the hatch covering the stern lazarette (it already has a passive dome vent in it, which I will replace with a solar vent fan) and probably one in the small acrylic (I think it's acrylic) hatch over the dinette. I figure that way, I can set the one over the dinette to draw air in and fit the one in the lazarette with a hose down to the bilge and set it to draw air out and get a nice circulation through the cabin and bilge.

Anyhow, I'm comparing what's out there - Nicro seems to be the most popular name, and based on price and reviews, appears to be perceived as the best out there.

I find that Defender has Nicro and Sunforce vents. The Sunforce vents are substantially less expensive and look to be lower-profile - I think aesthetically, they look better than the Nicros. But my experience in life in general and with marine hardware in particular is that you don't get what you don't pay for, so I have to wonder, with the price difference, whether the Nicros truly are that much better that they are worth the big price difference.

I have never had an opportunity to actually hold them in my hands and compare - the local West Marine doesn't keep a whole lot in stock, and last time I was there, they had only a couple Nicro vents to look at.

Anybody have any experience with either or both or have some basis for comparing? Thoughts, opinions, snide remarks (as if I need to solicit those from this crowd)?

Thanks!


----------



## sailingdog

I've got a pair of older Nicro vents on my boat, and they're still going strong. They were installed in 2006. I also installed a smaller Nicro vent last season to air out the anchor locker.  No experience with the Sunforce vents at all.


----------



## deniseO30

I'll never buy Nicro again. I didn't get even 2 years out the one


----------



## ilikerust

I think what I'm looking at is the Nicro Day/Night 2000 versus the Sunforce Solar Vent 3000.

They seem pretty comparable over all. Both have 2-year warranties; both have batteries to enable them to run at night or in cloudy weather; both have an on/off switch. Both can either pull air in or push air out - the Nicro does it by providing two different fan blades, and you put in whichever blade you want. The Sunforce does it with a push button, which seems a lot more convenient, and you don't have to remember where you put the other blade if you want to reverse the air flow.

The Nicro comes with a trim ring and insect screen. The Sunforce comes with an interior trim ring also, but I don't see anything about a screen, so I don't know.

Defender has the Nicro at $150 and the Sunforce at $83. So I essentially could get two Sunforce vents for only a few dollars more than the price of one Nicro. Given the 2-year warranty, I'm starting to think it might be worth the shot - I'm already spending a whole lot of money on my boat this season, with a complete engine overhaul and converting from raw water to fresh water cooling, new main sail, glassing over a couple old through-hulls, painting the bottom, re-bedding deck hardware, maybe the cutlass bearing.... yikes!

So anywhere I can legitimately save a few bucks at this point will help.

And I still need a new sail cover and dodger cover... 

Nobody said owning a boat would be cheap.


----------



## FarCry

There was a thread on Cruisers recently regarding some disappointed users of the Nicro day/night vent. From what I recall the older units seemed to last longer, especially the electric motors. I bought the Nicro product and installed it in November. It doesn't come close to moving air all night and seems to quit around 10PM. I've not tried to replace batteries becuase at night I don't necessarily need the same level of air flow as I do with the sun beating down on the boat. If I had it to do over again I would buy a straight solar vent without the battery option. Mildly disappointed.


----------



## sailingdog

FarCry said:


> There was a thread on Cruisers recently regarding some disappointed users of the Nicro day/night vent. From what I recall the older units seemed to last longer, especially the electric motors. I bought the Nicro product and installed it in November. It doesn't come close to moving air all night and seems to quit around 10PM. I've not tried to replace batteries becuase at night I don't necessarily need the same level of air flow as I do with the sun beating down on the boat. If I had it to do over again I would buy a straight solar vent without the battery option. Mildly disappointed.


One issue is the batteries that come with the Nicro vents isn't the best, and replacing them with a high-capacity NiMH rechargeable helps a lot.


----------



## FarCry

sailingdog said:


> One issue is the batteries that come with the Nicro vents isn't the best, and replacing them with a high-capacity NiMH rechargeable helps a lot.


That makes sense. Someday when upgrading the batteries makes it to the top of my boat to-do list, I'll replace existing with new higher capacity ones.

I am disappointed when any product falls so short of it's advertised function and requires modification or additional $'s be spent to work at 100%.

The vent has made a tremendous difference in lowering daytime interior temps when the boat is closed up.


----------



## sailingdog

Actually, the issue is that the NiCd batteries that come with the Nicro vents suffer from memory issues, because they don't get recharged properly, since the solar cell doesn't have enough wattage to do so most of the time. So the capacity of them drops lower and lower. The NiMH batteries don't suffer from the memory issues, so they tend to do better.

I found that the mold/mildew and temperature issues that plague some boats haven't been an issue on my boat because I have two vents installed and a fairly dry boat.


FarCry said:


> That makes sense. Someday when upgrading the batteries makes it to the top of my boat to-do list, I'll replace existing with new higher capacity ones.
> 
> I am disappointed when any product falls so short of it's advertised function and requires modification or additional $'s be spent to work at 100%.
> 
> The vent has made a tremendous difference in lowering daytime interior temps when the boat is closed up.


----------



## SlowButSteady

I bought a Sunforce at Fry's Electronics a couple of years ago, and returned it once I opened the package and got a good look at it; it just didn't look like something that would survive on the deck of a boat. Also, I think the reason the Sunforce looks like it's lower profile is that it's a lot larger diameter than the Nicro vent; the actual height above the deck is probably not all that different between the two brands.

The Nicro vent I have has lasted several years now. I replaced the C-cell battery with a NiMH and gave the motor shaft a spritz of WD-40 a year and a half ago. It's starting to sound like it needs to be oiled again, other than that it seems to work well.


----------



## sailingdog

SlowButSteady said:


> I bought a Sunforce at Fry's Electronics a couple of years ago, and returned it once I opened the package and got a good look at it; it just didn't look like something that would survive on the deck of a boat. Also, I think the reason the Sunforce looks like it's lower profile is that it's a lot larger diameter than the Nicro vent; the actual height above the deck is probably not all that different between the two brands.
> 
> *The Nicro vent I have has lasted several years now. I replaced the C-cell battery with a NiMH and gave the motor shaft a spritz of WD-40 a year and a half ago. It's starting to sound like it needs to be oiled again, other than that it seems to work well.*


You're probably better off with a dry lubricant than WD-40, which isn't designed as a lubricant, but to displace water. WD-40 will attract dirt and can cause the motor shaft to gum up.


----------



## L124C

I installed a Nicro 6 years ago and it's still going strong. I removed the battery altogether, so it only runs during the day. Don't like to hear it at night, and don't need air circulation 24/7 (moderate climate).


----------



## mitiempo

The link for the Sunforce posted states 1 year warranty. It is 9.5" in diameter and 3.5" high.


----------



## SlowButSteady

sailingdog said:


> You're probably better off with a dry lubricant than WD-40, which isn't designed as a lubricant, but to displace water. WD-40 will attract dirt and can cause the motor shaft to gum up.


We've been through this before. WD-40 has a light mineral oil and a high solvent fraction. A dry lube may well work better, in some cases; particularly if you are installing something new or can clean everything really well. However, the solvent in WD-40 helps break up and wash away any crud (dirt, dust, old oil) when you use it on old parts that are difficult or impossible to completely clean. My experience has been that in this particular application WD-40 works just fine.


----------



## SlowButSteady

BTW, NiCad batteries don't suffer from a "memory effect" when they aren't charged completely: the effect is supposedly a consequence of repeatedly not _discharging_ completely. In theory, if a NiCad is repeatedly discharged to the same relative charge state, say 40%, again and again the Cd(OH) crystals in the battery that are never reduced to metallic cadmium get too big, and thus resist oxidation/discharge. However, a chemistry-type colleague once told me that NiCads very rarely suffer from a true memory effect. Rather, they get damaged by cheap chargers that over-charge the batteries at the end of their charge cycles.


----------



## newhaul

silicone spray slideout lube for rv's works great and doesnt attract dirt. lasts longer than wd for me in my rv and on my boat


----------



## john1066

OP is right to pick the type with a storage battery, otherwise solar vents run when you don't need them and don't run when you do need them.


----------



## ilikerust

A couple things:

1. If you click on the link for the Nicro , you'll see that it says "High capacity NiMh battery operates vent for up to 40 hours without
sunlight on a full charge." So I guess they heard your complaints and no longer use a NiCad battery.

2. If you check out the product manual for the SunForce vent, it states that it has a 2-year warranty on materials and workmanship. So I don't know why their webpage says 1 year warranty - except that the web page says "satisfaction guaranteed." So it very well could be two different warranties - a 1-year satisfaction guaranteed warranty, allowing you do return it if dissatisfied within a year, and a 2-year warranty on defective materials or workmanship. I'm more concerned with the defective item, so the warranty seems to be generally comparable to the Nicro. It also uses a NiMh battery.


----------



## dhays

ilikerust said:


> Anybody have any experience with either or both or have some basis for comparing? Thoughts, opinions, snide remarks (as if I need to solicit those from this crowd)?


I put a Nicro Night and Day vent on my last boat. I was very happy with it. I haven't used the Sunforce.

I do need to replace the OEM solar vents on my current boat. They simply are not working well at all. So I'll be looking to find a replacement that would ideally drop in to the existing hole.


----------



## chef2sail

We have an older Nicro and I installed a new one 2 years ago over the head. Both are doing well and growing strong. The insect screen is a good feature where we live. I also replaced the low capacity recharable batteries with better ones. It runs stronger and longer...never stops.

Dave


----------



## paulk

Our Nicro solar vent is at least twelve years old now. We've replaced the battery once, about eight years ago. It runs year round, since the boat is stored outside in winter.


----------



## PopeyeGordon

*Reminder - WD40 is not a lubricant!*

Water Displacement formula #40 was developed for the Atlas missile program in the 60's. There was a problem with condensation in electronics from morning dew. The idea was to use surface tension dynamics to displace moisture with a harmless fluid. 39 formulas were found lacking.....

There is nothing wrong with keeping some WD40 aboard for drying out items that were splashed. If I dropped something in salt water like, say, my cell phone or non-waterproof camera I would first dip or rinse it in fresh water. Then fling loose water off and soak it in WD40 spray. Even if it worked right after the incident and a water rinse, I would likely still use the WD40 because corrosion damage happens after the immersion, when air and moisture mix.

Practical Sailor did a review of spray lubes for protecting electronics and deck lube tasks. There a number of marine sprays they like for long-lasting lube and corrosion protection. I just tried to find it in my collection without success but I remember they liked the expensive CRC spray and found Boeshield near the middle. I have 20 years experience with Boeshield and like it for light lubrication and electrical protection as it has a strong wicking action. It was developed by Boeing. If you spray Boeshield on a pane of glass and come back a day later you will find the penetrant vehicle has evaporated and what is left is a whitish wax residue which has reasonable staying power.

The WD40 company will not discourage you from using their product for just about any purpose - customer ignorance, shadetree mechanic culture and hardware stores all ensure this misused product will be around for a long time but the smart money is on newer and carefully developed formulations.


----------



## mitiempo

They say it is good for arthritis as well.


----------



## SlowButSteady

Shhhhh.....

No one tell my Nicro vent that WD40 is supposed to be such bad stuff; it's still running fine.


----------



## GeorgeDuBose

This is an old thread, but I want to ask someone who has installed a Nicro Solar Vent 3000. It is advertised as having a shut off mechanism to keep out green water. I am upgrading my 1973 Pearson 36 to meet the CE standards in the EU and will get the RCD "A" designation. I have to make several upgrades to the boat, double the lifelines, add a switch to the bilge pump and make a way to close off the air vents from the two dorade boxs. An upside down deck plate mounted on the overhead will suffice, but I am curious about the strength of the closing mechanics on the Nicro Solar Vent 3000. 

Does anyone know how firmly that closing mechanism closes???

Thanks,

George DuBose


----------



## tigertamer

I"m concerned that the cheaper Sunforce vent has no positive shut-off for green water in an offshore environment.The nicro has a tubular sleeve that you pull down from inside the trim ring, while inside the boat, to seal the hole off when things get ugly. That alone for me made the decision to go with the more expensive product, compared with the savings offset by the possible monetary damage of shipping a quantity of salt water onto teak and upholstery and personal effects, not to mention the PIA


----------



## Woodvet

My search to find this vestige of knowledge was led by the fear that Defender sent me two "Day & Night" vents but they appear of different makes. One is Nicro and appears to have an older box. The newer one is Marinco but both appear to be from the same manufacture. 
My concern was that old batteries do not hold up. It sits in the package for years with no charging and there you have it. Some vents last years and and others not so good. So I set out to find out what I already knew. 
That I need to check the date on the batts.
Up date: My suspicion was that Marinco bought out Nicro but I can't find it. The battery in the older appearing box was 30 3 12. 
The unit was manufacture says 05 10 12 The number not far from the skew says 050912.
Marinco is a favorable company to me. They are not far away and any problem I had they fixed beyond my satisfaction. 
Defender marine will horror themselves if pushed and while the child in me wants to blame the reality is honesty is becoming more and more difficult to find for me. With age comes money to those who can save and there are those will take if you do not know what the value is. 
The tip off was that they were on sale... 
ALWAYS check things that have batts for age. A new battery is dated when you buy it for a reason. If it sits on a shelf for a year or two it does matter. 
I looked at the time to disassemble and replace battery. There is a grease seal and o rings on the panel and screws. Interesting that they say not to smash the O'ring when that is exactly what they did. The older manual says the battery was in a different location. 

At hundred and fifty bucks these D&N 2000 vents were dearer than I wanted to pay but when I decided to go ahead and sacrifice the money for the good of the boat I never imagined I would not get quality for that price. Most disturbing is how the outside of the package says "battery lasts more than two whole years" which is ironically how old it is.
I found the replacement on Amazon but with shipping its 40 bucks. It is not the same as the battery it came with and reviews were not promising. 
Question: Will this battery be a couple and a half years old too? 
I will call Marinco in the morning and it's my bet they will make it right. If I have to go to Defender it will cut them deeper. I will ship the kit and kabootal all the way back East for a replacement or refund. 
Do you think they don't know?
Just because you pay the money does not mean you get the quality. 
At least the computer makes life harder on the saleman. 
The other unit has no date on the battery but the unit is 2013. I will not like it but I will keep it...


----------



## jimgo

Marinco and Nicro are the same company. If the batteries die prematurely, Marinco has been known to replace them, IIRC. I think they even use a standard size. Not that you should HAVE to cough up the cash for a new battery immediately after spending a premium for those vents, but at least you know it is an option.


----------



## mitiempo

It is the same company. Marinco bought Nicro and changed the packaging. Marinco also bought Promariner recently.


----------



## Woodvet

On the subject of WD40 lubricant; I am one who listens and keeps fair a bit of company who know and study products even more than do I. 
As I recall, water displacement is not the strong suit of WD40 and better left to other lubricants. Most especially with electronics... Though its purpose is far reaching in too many areas to recall, it is neither rust resistor or water displacer. 
I have heard tell though how excellent it is to scent one's fingers when baiting for sturgeon since it is only fish oil with a strong, (annoying to me) perfume. 
Oiling things is not always advisable though it would seem harmless enough, (except where missiles might be concerned) as noted. 
There are many things such as sheaves where it is better to leave their cheeks unsoiled by oil which would later attract dirt if not migrate to contaminate the halyard lines. 
Bearings in certain motors and such where no lubricates are required and thus unwarranted. 
Loose oil on hinges will migrate and defeat varnishes as well as a host of other future projects like soldering and so on. 
The use of fish oil lubricants may lure a host of other unwanted critters as well since it is a high calorie scent.
Then there is of course peppermint oil which detours said critters who detest even the slightest hint of it. It blocks a rat's sense of smell and makes them mostly blind since their noses are their prime director. Applied to dock lines it is an excellent detour-ant for a wide range of boarders.


----------



## Woodvet

Thanks Jim, Wish I had come here on the eve of my purchase and garnered a bit of the experiences people have already had. I think we echo in our history with Marinco. A friend helped design some retro fits for electronic buoys and was at once assured they are a great bunch of folks. 
I fully understand and believe that 'Defender' would make it right but they are over on the East coast. These are not easy batteries to replace. I believe we are suppose to substitute a Sanyo KR- 2000C for the N20590 (1.2 volt) and maybe it's not engineered for the same app since the number and letters diff. 
The main thing I gather is that the 20 at the beginning since it is the lasting quality and the volts are identical. 
But of course you once again run the gauntlet of not knowing the age of the replacement. Batteries must be fresh as produce. 
Thanks again Jim and I salute all of you who took time here to share...


----------



## mwrohde

Woodvet said:


> ...WD40 lubricant...is only fish oil


WD-40 is not fish oil. It is mostly hydrocarbons.

Fish oil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
WD-40 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Maine Sail

Woodvet said:


> On the subject of WD40 lubricant; I am one who listens and keeps fair a bit of company who know and study products even more than do I.
> As I recall, water displacement is not the strong suit of WD40 and better left to other lubricants. Most especially with electronics... Though its purpose is far reaching in too many areas to recall, it is neither rust resistor or water displacer.
> I have heard tell though how excellent it is to scent one's fingers when baiting for sturgeon since it is only fish oil with a strong, (annoying to me) perfume.


No fish oil in WD-40. WD-40 is basically hydrocarbons and a product most similar to stoddard solvent and mineral oil, though WD-40 has changed their MSDS in recent years to mask this "secret"......

WD-40 is about as good a penetrating oil as a Rosie O'Donnell is a triathlete..


----------



## bobmcgov

Maine Sail said:


> No fish oil in WD-40. WD-40 is basically hydrocarbons and a product most similar to stoddard solvent and mineral oil, though WD-40 has changed their MSDS in recent years to mask this "secret"......
> 
> WD-40 is about as good a penetrating oil as a Rosie O'Donnell is a triathlete..


*sigh* So many myths about WD-40. Maine is correct, it's stoddard/mineral spirits/medium light petrolium distillates. Propane used to be the propellent, dunno if it still is. WD-40 is not a reliable lubricant because it evaporates fairly soon, and indeed it may carry away from moving parts those better lubricants (like grease or light machine oil or lanolin) that belong in the assembly. It *does* displace water, tho there are better contact cleaners if that's your mission.

OTOH, WD-40 is incredibly useful for certain things. Removes pencil marks and tape residue pretty nice. I use it for quick cleanup of epoxy-covered tools like spreaders and mixing paddles. And I keep two or three cans in my cabinet shop for lubing tool surfaces and blades. Table saw, jointer, band saw.... In this case its volatility is an asset. The WD-40 evaporates within 30 minutes or upon sanding, leaving no residue to contaminate the waterbased finishes I employ. Much better than wax, citrus oils, or silicone-based tool lubes.


----------



## Woodvet

Not a Rosie picture you paint but now they don't sound so slick as before. There's a gun oil I was told that is the best. 
So why do sturgeons like it so much if it's a synthetic? 
"Because they're suckers?" 
:laugher


----------



## Woodvet

I decided to send these silly solar fans back to Defender. 
After all the investigation into the battery is was found one was half dead and the other one was dead it would not turn on... 
Marinco is sending a battery but I will turn that around too. I heard the bone go and thought it so loud I just said forget it and brought them home. You can buy some good fans out there for 20 bucks or less 4 times quieter and more powerful. Here's just one of many... 



 All you are purchasing is a stupid housing.


----------



## Capt Len

Back to gun oil for a moment. Try rendering a few rat fish livers. You will be amazed.


----------



## jimgo

I put a Nicro in my old boat, and have Sunforce fans in the Allmand. The Sunforce have been in for 2 seasons now, and have held up well. I agree with the comment earlier about not being able to close off the Sunforces - that is a real negative. I'm a fair-weather sailor, at least for now, so these are fine.


----------



## Woodvet

No fan made is better than the ones being marketed from China at the moment. I shopped around and saw how far behind the manufactures in the marine market are in vents, solar and otherwise. 
Some computer fans under 20 bucks are water tight, corrosion resistant and best of all, silent as a bureaucrat's hand in your pocket. 
Somethings never need any oil, (WD40) and it is a bad idea to assume anything on a boat.


----------



## Lockkeeper

If I am reading the specs correctly the Nicro moves more air than Sunforce - does anyone have an opinion of the fan noise of each units?


----------



## Woodvet

More air? There goes the heat... The first thing to do, is to open up the piece of crap, (same company makes both me thinks, and see just how old the battery is. The kind West Marine and companies make for boats is loud. 
Seen nothing but junk for sale... And they don't last long either. Older batts have shorter durations after a charge. Some can fail in just 5 minutes. 
However, with any electrical background you can modify most 12 Volt computer fans. A huge plus as far as price, craftsmanship as well as superior in both quietness and water resistance, (some work submerged. 
AND: they last for years. 
What's needed is the housing and or chimney/ snorkel and a charge system. 
You can experiment with conventional housing and switch out the fan.
you're on your own though. 
Plenty of tossed out junk, since few people bother with repairing them and scrapped out boats nearly always have at least one..... 
On my boat it's all computer fans. They're only 5 to 20 bucks new so don't salvage one from an old puter.


----------

