# New to sailing, help convince my wife.



## Alexander T

Before children (roughly 9 years ago) I was an avid Rock climber, snow boarder, kayaker, essentially anything that got me into the wilderness. Basically, I'm not new to "troubled situations" and have learned to breath. 
About 5 years ago we moved from Colorado to "er, uh, cough... St. Louis Mo."
It's actually been great. The kids go to good schools, there are many family functions etc... But there's no adventure. 
Super long story short. I got a hobie cat 16. Went out a few calm days with my father in law. Then one day took my father in law, wife, 2 kids, and yes! My dog out on a 15-20 mph windy day. It of course did not go well and within 40 min. My wife has made the decision to never step foot on any sailboat again. 
I was okay with that prospect at first but now all I can think about is the weather becoming warm again and feeling the force of wind fill the sails once more. I have found my adventure!
I made the mistake of looking into purchasing a day trailor/sailor and want to involve my family. I've read countless hours of people sailing with kids on blue 
water boats but not a lot on sailing around in lakes. So here's the question. 
If I were to obtain a asa certification. Know what to expect on a keeled sailboat. Is sailing with youth dangerous or a life changing positive event?
If I'm getting a sailboat geared for "none" ammenities meaning that a push battery powered light is about the fanciest I'll get as far mechanics what would a yearly cost estimate be, knowing that it will stay on the hard? 
Is there a swing keel sailboat that can handle the great Lakes but can also survive the 4.5 hr. Haul from St. Louis, being pulled from a Toyota Tundra truck?

I need help from the sailing community, one's that have children with nervous mothers to explain the beautiful benefits to raising kids on sailboats. 
Or explain to me that I am being a reckless father and should only sail by myself for the rest of my life. 😕


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## skipmac

First, I'm sure you already know the answer. Sailing isn't per se a dangerous thing for kids, of course assuming the parents follow reasonable safety measures. Sailing beats the heck out of sitting in front of a TV or playing video games or spending hours on facebook.

However, you screwed up badly by scaring your wife on a small boat in very iffy sailing conditions. Going to be hard to get over that. In this situation I would say it's a case of bigger is better. Try to set up a charter in a warm tropical island paradise sometime late next winter after the cold and snow has really started to wear on her nerves. As a newbie you'll probably have to hire a captain or find a friend with the skills and resume to get it done. A 35-40' cat will sail level and be roomy and comfy. It may change her mind.


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## jephotog

I was told by a boat broker sailing is an adrenaline sport. It does not have to be always but if you are an adrenaline junky, you might search out the edge. One of the first day of sailing with my wife was in 20 knots of breezy, gusty, mountain swirling lake in a centerboard boat. I was having so much fun I tried to get her to sail the boat. Like your first day it did not inspire confidence in my wife. It has taken years to recover my wife's confidence in "our" skills of sailing a boat together. 

Figure out the towing capacity of your truck and start searching for a sailboat with trailer that your truck can handle when looking for a family boat.

You might also consider a instructional charter/cruise on a large keelboat in a tropical location. Make sailing safe and enjoyable. Once she is onboard you can look for a trailerable sailboat for the family. It is possible your wife will never be totally comfortable in the same conditions you are and it only takes one bad day to screw that up.


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## Yorksailor

You made the #1 error...took the wife and kids out on a hot boat in challenging conditions before you learned to sail in easy conditions!

You need a solid, safe, low performance, trailerable boat after you have learned to sail sensibly... If you ever get it near top speed with the kids and wife on board you are just being irresponsible.

Of course you can safely take you wife and kids out, my grandson was out in 35 knots age age 2 on a 20 knot sailboat...the difference is I took the trouble to learn to be safe before I took them out.

Good luck Phil


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## SHNOOL

Oday 26, Catalina 25, Oday 25, Compac 25...
Good luck getting back confidence, but yeah you made the classic newbie mistake with family.

You need keelboat, and stable, and a tank in heavy air... it's gonna be "boring" for you for a bit.

One thing you MUST accept though... you may NEVER get them sailing again. One in 20 people actually enjoy it enough to do it again. 1 in 100 will do it again after a bad experience. Your best learning tool, is time.... Horseback riding we call it "wet saddle blankets," in other words... LOTs of hours at the tiller/wheel. In all kinds of conditions.

When you can practice knockdowns, and manage the "experience" you'll be ready to take passengers... Conditions have to be "controlled" and light.

I took newbs out in 30 knot winds on my S2 7.9 (not a slow boat at all), but I chose to sail under mainsail alone, and broad reach only. It was "fun" for them, with little heeling, but decent turn of speed (6.5 knots). I wouldn't have thought to try it without knowing exactly every possible thing that could go wrong and a way to mitigate it.

Newbs always get controlled conditions, and you need experience to get there... Best bet is to sail alone (a lot) and not ask for folks to go with, until you've got a whole season under your belt in everything from 5 knots to 30 knots wind (with sun and rain).


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## Arcb

I think we are a bit alike. I have a four year old and one on the way. I have two trailer sailors and currently building a third. My wife is not scared of sailing, I do have a fast boat (Prindle 16, very similar to a Hobie 16), but I have never had my wife or son on it, they come with me on the slow boat.

As long as you can get your wife over the fear, your plan sounds do able. Figure out how much your vehicle can tow, then look for a boat and trailer that doesnt exceed the tow limit. I think in your case you want a boat that is fairly tame with a swing or lifting keel, something beamy, (but not too beamy). Involve your wife in the buying process, heavily. Going to look at boats is a really fun family activity. 

Dont make assumptions. My wifes preferences really surprised me when we went boat shopping together. For example, she doesnt like boats with heads(toilets)! She also doesnt like wood work. The less to clean, the happier she is.

A lot of folks these days find youtube helpful for inspiring a significant other. I dont know your tastes, but maybe find a youtube channel where they cruise on a trailer sailor with kids. 

When sailing with the family, I really focus on fun family stuff, going for ice cream, sailing to the beach or an outdoor concert. When I am solo or with a dude, thats when I sail the snot out of a boat.


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## gamayun

I've met a lot of adults who seriously disliked sailing because of a scary time they had on a boat with their dad when they were young. Don't be that guy! Make sure it stays fun, which is likely to be on the days when you'll get absolutely zero adrenaline rush...


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## MarkofSeaLife

Alexander T said:


> . Then one day took my father in law, wife, 2 kids, and yes! My dog out on a 15-20 mph windy day. It of course did not go well and within 40 min. My wife has made the decision to never step foot on any sailboat again.


You are not being reckless you are being truly selfish.

I, I, I, I.... You post is only about you never her... except how you want her to do what you want.

Before children was she ever the avid rock climber, snowboarder, kyaker?

Now you have kids she is doing everything that genetics have made humans sucessful: move to a safe place surrounded by family and grow the children and educate them well.

Then you stupidly rip her out of Darwins perfect place and stupidly overload a 16 foot boat and try to kill her children in a near storm.

Of corse she doesn't want to ever have you repeat the folly. Why would she? Is she mad?

My advice to you is to lose the adventure edge. If you want her ever in her life go sailing with you again, get a quiet boat and go sail it yourself until she hears from 3rd parties that you can do so responsibly.

Until then go enjoy your sailing by yourself.

Mark


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## MarkofSeaLife

And leave the dog at home.

Ohhhh "my dog".....


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## Minnewaska

A good Captain has a good time, when the crew has a good time.

A Hobie in 15-20 kts with a full tramp? What was your reaction, when it became apparent the crew was not happy? Did you try to brush it off and convince them it was okay, or were you apologetic that you made a mistake bringing them out in that?

When you have passengers/crew aboard, you always have to cater to the lowest common denominator. If your wife knows it isn't in your DNA to throttle down, it's pretty unlikely she's going to think you'll change.


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## Sal Paradise

You have gotten enough abuse about your terrible mistake - from people who have all made the exact same mistake. 

I've had the same boat for 5 years now, sailing in the same spot - never had a problem - and yet my wife still screams and clutches the side of the boat when a 15 mph breeze picks up. 

To answer your original question, there are some neat trailer sailors out there. For example we have a Catalina 22 and its just fine for anything, and has a trailer and is light enough to tow...yet it has all the flaws too that might make it seem inadequate. For instance, it has a 5 foot deep 500 lb iron swing keel. That makes it seem stable until one day the wind gets up to 20 mph and you haven't already reefed the main sail. So it starts heeling over and you are laughing and having fun but look over and your wife is scared and wants to kill you. There are better boats, but as a newbie , I doubt they will be much better for you. Its does have an adequate little cabin, dinette, bunks and a porta pottie...and there are thousands of them out there, you can get one for a song. Its a ***** to set up even a 22 foot boat, and a 25 footer is exponentially harder. For example my mast weighs about 70 lbs but you have to put it up on a pitching deck, with the shrouds and lines all tangling up 2 stories above your head, and sweat running into your eyes when you look up. If it is breezy out, you should put a reef in the main sail at the dock. 

As for the great lakes, I wouldn't do it with a trailer sailor. I'm sure someone will tell you to buy and tow a big heavy boat but in reality there is no real solution. For the great lakes with your family you should have a diesel powered boat that weighs 15,000 lbs and you aren't going to tow that with a Toyota and set it up at the ramp. 

The other option, is just keep the Hobie and get your fix alone and leave the wife and kids out of it for a while. Good luck!


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## Minnewaska

Sal Paradise said:


> You have gotten enough abuse about your terrible mistake - from people who have all made the exact same mistake.


We all have, for sure. That's why I asked how he handled it. That will make all the difference. If he accepted the mistake, she might think he gets it. If he tried to brush it off, she probably won't trust him.



> I've had the same boat for 5 years now, sailing in the same spot - never had a problem - and yet my wife still screams and clutches the side of the boat when a 15 mph breeze picks up.


I have to remind myself how lucky I am, once in a while. My wife loves the rail in the water. The faster, the better for her. She's even good in heavy seas and specifically likes huge rollers. Sometimes, I would rather slow down and have lunch. She would rather starve and keep going.

We launched this past weekend and spent Sat night aboard, after commissioning all day. Went down to 40 degrees, but she was good with it. Lucky, lucky, lucky.

Nothing like friends of ours, however. They're still on the hard and the wife was under the hull changing zincs. That's true love!!


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## BillMoran

My Tartan 37 is in Sandusky OH. I'm not anywhere near as experienced as most of the people on this forum, but here's my experience so far.

The day I took possession of the boat I sailed it a 1/2 day to the marina I'd chosen to keep it. The day started out with essentially perfect conditions (you can see it in my crappy video: 



) but by the time I arrived at my new marina, the wind was something like 30 knots and more than I'd ever dealt with. I know that's not a lot to many sailors, but for me ... well, let's just say I had a hell of a time docking without lots of crashing.

The lesson I learned that day: the weather doesn't watch the weather report. None of those 30 knots of wind were predicted anywhere I checked.

Over the course of the summer I learned another lesson: the great lakes are not to be trifled with. Again, i know a lot of experienced sailors will laugh at this, but when you're the most experienced sailor on board and you're seeing waves crash over the bow and soak the cockpit for the first time, and 15,000 pounds of boat is bouncing around like a cork ... well, it's an eye opener. Fun for some and terrifying for others. For me, it was a bit of both. I spent the summer previous sailing a 16' boat on a small lake an hour from home, and the difference is quite dramatic. Lake Erie can be a monster because of a weather system that passed 30 miles away several hours ago. That little lake never had that problem.

Another thing I learned: I live in Pittsburgh, so the boat is about a 3.5 hour drive. But having a boat this big makes for fun weekend trips: drive out after work on Friday and sleep on the boat. Sail all day Saturday and spend another night on the boat. Little bit of sailing on Sunday before driving home. I found myself checking the weather every weekend and driving up every time it seemed worthwhile. Can't complain about last summer at all. At the beginning of the summer I was really unsure whether it was a good idea to keep the boat in Sandusky ... now I can't imagine it any other way.

I have yet to take anyone out on the boat who didn't want to come back. At the same time, I'm not married and don't have kids, and haven't pressured anyone into coming out. Essentially I've only taken out people who first expressed interest to me. As a result, I don't have much advice on how to help people learn to like it. I would think that the biggest challenge is the weather and how it can go from idyllic to frightening in the short order. I think a lot of people aren't comfortable with that. You

So, with my very limited experience, my suggestion is to keep the small boat on a local lake for now. Get some experience, leave the offer open to the family if they want to join you. But, at the same time, look for opportunities to spend some time on larger boats and consider the possibility that a large vessel might work better for you on the great lakes. If you ever want to come up to Sandusky for a weekend, drop me a PM ... but that's an even further drive for you.

Whatever you choose to do, I hope it works out for you.


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## titustiger27

MarkofSeaLife said:


> ** ** snip ***
> 
> Before children was she ever the avid rock climber, snowboarder, kayaker?
> 
> ** ** snip ***
> Mark


This was my first thought

I see the Original Poster has posted one post and not really responding to his own thread, so who knows the answer to this.

It seems about once or twice a year there is this kind of posts. And when you watch sail vloggers do Q & A this is always a prominent topic (second only to, how much does it cost)

There are many reasons why people don't like sailing... maybe equal to the reasons people _like _ sailing.

I often wonder, when a person has been married to someone for several years, why they have to ask total strangers about loved one.

little story:
I took a couple friends out sailing on a LoneStar 13 about 35 years ago... one guy jumped on the boat the other crawled on... and when the guy who jumped moved, the other guy turned his knuckles white.

The jumper had been around boats most of his life and knew that boats (sailboats especially) lean. The white-knuckle guy didn't know how to swim (I didn't know that at the time) and when you don't know how to swim, being in a boat that rocks, is frightening --- standing in four feet of water is terrifying to someone who doesn't swim.

We sailed 500 yards in 4 mile an hour winds to a bar and then we sailed back. I am sure the white-knuckle guy considered walking.

I don't think I could have ever gotten the white-knuckle guy back in the boat. His perceived danger (and likely this guy's wife) is different most people on the forum, but we all live by our own perception, not what someone tells us.

Who knows what the wife was/is really thinking, but I would guess he might want to ask her...

:boat :


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## titustiger27

This thread (and others like it) makes me think...

There should be a thread:

"Before you make someone HATE sailing"

with a checklist of sorts

Have you ever been in a boat before?
Do you know how to swim?
Do you easily get motion sick?
What can I do to calm your nerves?
Do you trust me?

(in my story I just told. I am sure my white-knuckle friend wanted a PFD *before* he got in the boat)


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## Sal Paradise

To a certain extent it's just inevitable. The wind might get stronger in the afternoon, and you might have to beat your way back. This happens and to blame yourself about it isn't helpful either.

The real way to get your wife over her fear of sailing is to find a very attractive woman to sail with, and then tell the wife its fine if she stays home. You totally understand. _"See Sweetheart - Lisa isn't afraid. She actually enjoys it when the boat tips, honey. And wow is she good with the sails! So, if you want to stay home, its fine. Do you mind if I take that bottle of prosecco? Lisa likes italian wines and I want her to try that one. Thanks" _

Instant permanent fearless first mate.


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## Arcb

Some addional thoughts on the Great Lakes. Some of the more popular cruising grounds on the Lakes are in quite protected water ways, Thousand Islands, North Channel, Traverse Bay, Bay of Quinte, Lake Eries Western Basin to name a few. Trailer sailors are fine for those areas. Lake crossings and coastal cruising on the lakes can be a different matter which lots of trailor sailors might be less suitable for.


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## Alexander T

I'll start this post with a new story! 
When my oldest daughter was 19 months old I visited a site much like this one except with parents and parents giving advice. 
The question was "is it okay to take a young child on an extended camping trip. I was inundated with responses like you are only putting your child at risk and you are a parenting danger. I took it upon myself to think that the ones commenting had never actually camped before. Well, I took my daughter camping in the Sierra Nevada's with my wife and she did great. She slept exceptionally well. And we had a great time with no apparent danger. 
I've been reading the posts periodically throughout the day and couldn't wait to get home to share them with my family. My wife could not stop laughing at some of these responses expecially the one about Darwin's Evolution. To side track briefly, isn't Darwin's theory only the strong will survive? And that we all came from a single cell? Well with that said, 
Take away all creature comforts and what are you left with? The answer is survival. Going to the mall, ordering a movie on demand, take out, etc... is Not survival. It's simply exsisting. Isn't Strange that most people can change a tire yet have no clue how to milk a cow? 
Not one person on this thread asked about the reactions of the father in law or the children's reactions. In summary, it was such a short outing that it did not affect them. My kids have asked every time I go sailing if they could go as well. At least I did not ruin it for them. 
I have apologized for my actions to my wife. However, the trip was not nearly as dramatic as some of these responses. Maybe some of your experiences in high winds were different than ours. 
Maybe I made the experience more than what it was, for that I apologize.
Much like my first experience with posting a question (the one about camping) I feel a little deflated and feel that some answers have gone down some rabbit hole in an attempt to squash the newbie. 
For the posts that have included ways to help the wife feel more at ease, thank you. If nothing else what I have taken from these posts are "I'm not ready for passengers and I have a lot to learn still". For those posts thank you. They weren't nearly as deflating.


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## titustiger27

Sal Paradise said:


> To a certain extent it's just inevitable. The wind might get stronger in the afternoon, and you might have to beat your way back. This happens and to blame yourself about it isn't helpful either.
> 
> The real way to get your wife over her fear of sailing is to find a very attractive woman to sail with, and then tell the wife its fine if she stays home. You totally understand. _"See Sweetheart - Lisa isn't afraid. She actually enjoys it when the boat tips, honey. And wow is she good with the sails! So, if you want to stay home, its fine. Do you mind if I take that bottle of prosecco? Lisa likes italian wines and I want her to try that one. Thanks" _
> 
> Instant permanent fearless first mate.


or

and the wife gets the boat in the divorce settlement too


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## paulinnanaimo

I scanned back over the posts and didn't see any suggestion about learning to sail dinghys. Not taught by dad, but through instructors teaching kids/parents with similar skills. Kids and moms will do almost anything if they are sharing it with peers. My wife, son and daughter, and myself all took lessons with groups. Very early on we were all comfortable on a sailboat and the acquired skills transferred to bigger boats very nicely. And it was fun.


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## Alexander T

Great idea! Thanks.


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## titustiger27

Thanks for coming back and posting... if you stay around you will see so many people who come, post one post and start a new thread and are never heard from again This one has gone on past 150 pages and the guy who started it left after a month.. so sorry to be snarky about that

I like the dinghy lessons too

For one, you get the fundamentals of sailing down right away

if it is a nice day on the beach and they make you jump in the water.. it's not all that intimidating

some videos might be nice too Sailboat Story is a family having fun.


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## Alexander T

I am super busy during the day and when I get home its kid time. My time is after the spawn go to sleep. 
I am diffently into the direction the posts are going. I am excited for the prospects of sailing lessons for the youth. Maybe mom? 
My little one just turned 5 and is fearless. My other one is 9 and is intimidated of certain sports. She is on the gymnastics team, climbs at the climbing gym 2 nights a week but doesn't want to be on a team. Last year she wanted to play soccer but never actually went out on the field. We'll see what happens!


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## Arcb

Alexander T said:


> Before children (roughly 9 years ago) I was an avid Rock climber, snow boarder, kayaker, essentially anything that got me into the wilderness. Basically, I'm not new to "troubled situations" and have learned to breath.
> About 5 years ago we moved from Colorado to "er, uh, cough... St. Louis Mo."
> It's actually been great. The kids go to good schools, there are many family functions etc... But there's no adventure.
> Super long story short. I got a hobie cat 16. Went out a few calm days with my father in law. Then one day took my father in law, wife, 2 kids, and yes! My dog out on a 15-20 mph windy day. It of course did not go well and within 40 min. My wife has made the decision to never step foot on any sailboat again.
> I was okay with that prospect at first but now all I can think about is the weather becoming warm again and feeling the force of wind fill the sails once more. I have found my adventure!
> I made the mistake of looking into purchasing a day trailor/sailor and want to involve my family. I've read countless hours of people sailing with kids on blue
> water boats but not a lot on sailing around in lakes. So here's the question.
> If I were to obtain a asa certification. Know what to expect on a keeled sailboat. Is sailing with youth dangerous or a life changing positive event?
> If I'm getting a sailboat geared for "none" ammenities meaning that a push battery powered light is about the fanciest I'll get as far mechanics what would a yearly cost estimate be, knowing that it will stay on the hard?
> Is there a swing keel sailboat that can handle the great Lakes but can also survive the 4.5 hr. Haul from St. Louis, being pulled from a Toyota Tundra truck?
> 
> I need help from the sailing community, one's that have children with nervous mothers to explain the beautiful benefits to raising kids on sailboats.
> Or explain to me that I am being a reckless father and should only sail by myself for the rest of my life. ?


I was trying to help, not scare you off. Theres a lot going on with your post though, so I wasnt exactly sure what you were looking for.

Yes, I sail with children, when my son was born we did not have a terrestrial home, just a boat, so we brought him home from the hospital directly to the boat. About 24 hours old. His first saiil was about 3 months, and first lengthwise crossing of Lake Ontario at 10 months. I know there are other folks with similar time lines.

At about 2 and a half, we sold the big boat and switched to a trailer sailor. Weve only done one longer cruise with him on our very small trailer sailor. About 250 miles over 15 days. Generally speaking it was very safe. We had to high tail it off the water for some Thunderstorms, but thats it. We stayed in protected waters, no doubt there were some 15-20 mph winds we sailed in. No big deal, I reefed (not possible on most hobie 16's though).

We are planning our next big trip SW Forida for 2018/2019, same 21 foot boat, plan is to trailer it down behind my minivan. Hoping for at least 3 months.

Kids love trailer boats, they are kid sized and close to the frogs and fish.

My boat has no amenities. No running water, no electricity of any description, no head (toilet) of any description. When cruising we will try to find somewhere to beach or tie up every couple of hours for a break. We pitch a tent on a beach adjacent to the boat most nights to improve our comfort. For lighting I use flashlights and carry a kerosene lamp. Water is jugs of water. Cooking is on a single burner alcohol stove. Engine is a 2.3 honda with no reverse. It all works great for us. Yearly cost for this boat is mostly spark plugs and oil for the motor, bearings and tires for the trailer, odds and ends. Say $500 a year maybe. Plus we get a Parks Canada seasonal mooring pass which gives us unlimited mooring and camping in Federal Marine parks for $200).

Yes, you can find a boat to trailer behind a Tundra. I trailered my smaller boat (16 ft) 7000 km this winter, I tow my 21 foot boat as well. Tow vehicle is a base model Dodge Grand Caravan. The open lakes can be a bit sketchy in a trailer sailor, but most of the interesting places are in fairly protected waters.

There arent a ton of trailer sailors on this forum, and even fewer with young kids, so dont be disappointed if you dont get a ton of responses from that demographic, but there are lots of other folks with good ideas.


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## Arcb

Some time I shoot home movies of my trailer sailing with the families and post them to YouTube. Don't know if they would be useful to you or not. I cant really think of any other similar channels (families on trailer sailors).


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## chicory83

As a rock climber and offshore sea kayaker who used to wind surf before I bought my cruising boat, I can't help wonder if you aren't looking in the wrong direction. Wind surfing might be perfect for you. You don't need a trailer to transport your gear. Set up and take down are quick so you don't have to take a whole day away from the wife and kids. They are relatively inexpensive, you don't need to pay for a dock, mooring or ramp fees, and they don't take up much storage space. Finally, windsurfing is a blast. If you enjoy snowboarding and getting that Hobie up on one ama, then imagine doing both at the same time.


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## titustiger27

Arcb said:


> Some time I shoot home movies of my trailer sailing with the families and post them to YouTube. Don't know if they would be useful to you or not. I can't really think of any other similar channels (families on trailer sailors).


hey travel by water... didn't realize you posted here

don't forget all that good sausage eating :devil


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## Alexander T

Arcb!
That was very insperational. 
The main reason for looking into the purchase of a cabin cruiser is that it would allow my family an opportunity to be together and work as a family. The Hobie cat does not offer that (obviously). My kids are still young enough to think that their parents are cool. Soon they won't want anything to do with us. I had a great upbringing with my family we did lots of hiking and camping. I had great memories with my parents and want the same for my own.
Sailing by myself takes away time spent with my children. If it takes years to become a good captain then that's a problem. 
On the Hobie it's just go! Am I wrong in thinking that a cabin cruiser around 22'-25' is more wind manageable? 
Honestly, during the time thinking about sailing was not crashing it into the dock. 
Last season my father in-law took turns at the helm (in high winds as well) every weekend and never even got it on one pontoon. I pleaded to set the trapeze up and go full tilt but he has always been reserved.
I guess my point is, if I can control the Hobie cat how much difference is there in a cabin cruiser to sail minus the size?
Also, am I wrong thinking that it's not difficult to lower the jib, reef the sail when the wind does pick up?


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## Minnewaska

I’m a big believer in exposing kids to as much as you can. They won’t like it all, but it will stick with them into their adult lives and you never know what pops back in. I grew up in a boating family. As a kid, I HATED it. Long drive to the marina, boring wait to get ready, boring trip somewhere and the most boring wait to clean up, when we got back. If I wasn’t bored, I was the slave labor. That was worse!

I became a pilot specifically to get away from boats. Seriously. Then, after a hiatus, as a young adult, it snuck back in. I would go on other people’s boats and realize all that I was taught as a kid and didn’t appreciate. In my 20s, I thought everyone knew how to tie a bowline or dead reckon, or read a chart. Without that exposure, as a kid, I’m sure I would never have known the joy I get from being on the water today.


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## Arcb

Alexander T said:


> Arcb!
> That was very insperational.
> The main reason for looking into the purchase of a cabin cruiser is that it would allow my family an opportunity to be together and work as a family. The Hobie cat does not offer that (obviously). My kids are still young enough to think that their parents are cool. Soon they won't want anything to do with us. I had a great upbringing with my family we did lots of hiking and camping. I had great memories with my parents and want the same for my own.
> Sailing by myself takes away time spent with my children. If it takes years to become a good captain then that's a problem.
> On the Hobie it's just go! Am I wrong in thinking that a cabin cruiser around 22'-25' is more wind manageable?
> Honestly, during the time thinking about sailing was not crashing it into the dock.
> Last season my father in-law took turns at the helm (in high winds as well) every weekend and never even got it on one pontoon. I pleaded to set the trapeze up and go full tilt but he has always been reserved.
> I guess my point is, if I can control the Hobie cat how much difference is there in a cabin cruiser to sail minus the size?
> Also, am I wrong thinking that it's not difficult to lower the jib, reef the sail when the wind does pick up?


A lot going on here, but I will give it a go. Agree, sailing with the kids is the best, I do some stuff alone but the family trips are great. I dont think it should take years to learn how to skipper a small trailer sailor. Do it as a family. Learn together. Buy the boat together, make mistakes learning together. Just dont do it in big wind or on big water where some ones likely to get hurt.

Yes, a Hobie 16 is a very different beast. Hobie 16 type boats have very high performance ceilings, when its windy, they just want to go. Some trailer sailors are going to be easier to manage. A few posts back a "Catalina 22" was mentioned. Something like that might be good. They are pretty capable sailors, with good performance, still lots of fun to sail. Mast stepping can be a bear, dont under estimate this, I have seen couples sailing experience ended after a fight where stepping the mast on the boat goes badly. Mast falls, lands on truck, bends mast, dents truck, man blames wife- you get the idea.

For me personally, because I trailer every time I sail, I have gone with a lower performance boat with a folding mast tabernacle. No jib, just main. Very easy to manage by one person. Very easy boat to sail to (no jib to tack). Popular boats of this style are "Compacs".

Reefing is easy, provided its done early enough. If you leave it too long and the wind is really up, it can be a frustrating experience. I have a tendency to over reef with kids on board, it hurts perfprmance, but can make life a lot easier. Docking boats this size is manageable, but might be challenging at times.


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## Ajax_MD

Alexander T said:


> Maybe I made the experience more than what it was, for that I apologize.
> Much like my first experience with posting a question (the one about camping) *I feel a little deflated and feel that some answers have gone down some rabbit hole in an attempt to squash the newbie. *
> For the posts that have included ways to help the wife feel more at ease, thank you. If nothing else what I have taken from these posts are "I'm not ready for passengers and I have a lot to learn still". For those posts thank you. They weren't nearly as deflating.


That's what we do here, crush dreams. :wink

Everything is "death" and newbies have no business sailing boats without attending every single ASA class available and obtaining their USCG 6-pack certification. Also, apprentice yourself to a sailing Jedi Master. Singlehand sailing is Death. Sailing in the Great Lakes is Certain Death. Sailing along the Atlantic coast instead of safely inside the ICW is Doom and Unmitigated Failure.

You should only start out sailing an Optimist dinghy. Once you have mastered that in 4-5 years, you should upgrade boats by 1 foot in length every 2 years, in order to master sailing larger boats. But, only bluewater capable boats, mind you. None of those crappy, coastal production boats. Even if you're only sailing in a lake.

When I first signed onto this site in 2009, this forum was inhabited by a critter known as Sailing Dog. His view was that sailing is a very hazardous, esoteric occupation that was beyond the capability of most mortal humans. Within my first week of sailboat ownership, I nearly put the boat right back up for sale because I thought "If the sailing community is populated by a$$holes like this, I want no part of it." Fortunately, I discovered that he was not an accurate representation of most of the sailing community.

Sailing Dog had quite the echo chamber built up around here. It's very amusing how people complain that sailing is dying, and that the iPad generation isn't interested, while doing their best to scare or chase away new people who show up looking for information.

As for your wife-

You've scared her and now you have to figure out how to undo the damage. I'm not a marriage counselor, nor am I a psychologist.
You know your relationship with your wife better than anyone here. You'll have to figure that out for yourself.

Good luck.


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## Arcb

titustiger27 said:


> don't forget all that good sausage eating :devil


5 good reasons why not to hesitate and one should go out and buy a trailer sailor today!


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## caberg

We bought our 26' boat when our son was 3 (he's now about to turn 9). My wife had only ever sailed once before with me on a daysailor. The key for our family has been to keep it fun, which often means not actually sailing all that much. We spend almost every weekend on the boat in the summer, but more often than not we're just anchored or slowly sailing in light winds, spending lots of time swimming, fishing, playing games, visiting beaches and islands to explore. My wife and son have never really gotten scared on the boat (there's been a few squalls that have been unnerving), but for us, boredom would probably spell the death of the boat. You can't expect to take a non-boat/sail person and a kid on the boat and just sail for hours weekend after weekend without doing anything else. So make it fun, relaxing, easy and enjoyable, and it can be some of the best family time and memories you will ever have.


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## Sal Paradise

From your original post, your oldest is 9, and so maybe a 7 year old as well? Those are very good ages to learn to sail. I can only relate what happened with my kids at that age. We had a sunfish and the kids spent many hours sailing that little boat. Its immediately responsive, like a video game. They each got good at it. Now, with my 22 foot boat they instinctively know how to sail, they have the correct reaction when a gust heels the boat over. Only one out of three really appreciates sailing. The oldest thinks its boring and stressful, the middle kid loves it. My youngest boy is an amazing sailor, he gets speed out of that old boat like no other, but he can take it or leave it. The wife is still just as scared of sailing as she ever was. Strangely, although all 3 boys learned to sail well, my wife went backwards. She is great with putting up and taking down sails and tying up the boat, but she claims to have absolutely no sailing ability at all. To the point that I sometimes force her to take the tiller just to get her head into it, but she really can't do more than steer one tack. 

So here is a tip that works somewhat - when I play my wife's favorite rock music loud through the blue tooth speakers we have, it calms her down. She also tends to have a few drinks while sailing and between that liquid courage and the loud music, her fear abates. Nothing I say helps at all. 

I will reiterate that a Catalina 22 isn't a bad first little keel boat. A lot of people bash them, and they are sort of slow and cheap. That is true. But they really do the job as an all around first trailer boat....and as your skill increases, you can make it perform pretty well. Go out at first with a friend, someone who won't care if you screw up. Then you can take the father in law. Then after 5 or 6 trips, and carefully watching the weather you can take just the wife. Finally, when that goes okay, the whole family.


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## JoCoSailor

Alexander, Check out OYC https://ozarkyachtclub.com/. They have keelboat races (I think starting this Saturday I'd call to confirm). Show up around 10:30 and you'll be able to crew. They also offer lessons and have sailboats of all sizes to rent.....


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## jtsailjt

I don't know your wife's personality so have no idea if she's the type who might relent and give you another chance at sailing. The first advice I give a new sailor who is introducing their wife to sailing is to NEVER scare them in the early going and that means reefing way earlier than I'd probably prefer and not even going out on days when I'm just itching to. So, you've got an uphill climb here. 

Bigger boats are a lot more stable and easier to control than a Hobie in high winds but I doubt whether your wife is ready to buy into that yet. I'd get something like a Sunfish so the kids can soon take it out on their own and hopefully your wife will be willing to try it our as well when she sees her kids mastering it and having fun. As part of their training you purposely tip the boat over and then right it, no big deal. I introduced my wife to sailing a few years ago and she's pretty comfortable aboard our big, heavy, stable cruising sailboat, but to really teach her about sailing I took her out on the Sunfish I've had on the lake for 50 years. It's much easier to learn on something small like that. You tend to notice even slight changes in wind or waves and how the boat reacts to them so when she got on the big boat she had a better idea of what to look for. Since I've had the Sunfish so long and as a kid usually only sailed it when there were no other boat on the lake because it was too windy, I'm VERY comfortable sailing it any conditions, but I did notice her seeming to get concerned when we'd heel over significantly, so I talked to her about tipping over and reassured her that it was no big deal. I explained that on a boat like that it's an almost routine occurrence as well as how to avoid getting caught under the sail and what to do if the that happens. I prepared her as best I could and then we went out on a pretty windy day and we deliberately tipped it over and then righted it, and then I tipped it over again and swam away a bit and told her to tip it upright and then sail back to pick me up. She did that and now she takes the Sunfish out by herself and has no fear of tipping over other than worrying that the water might seem too cold. I think that might be a good approach for you with your wife because a Sunfish is more like a water toy like a surfboard that you'd use at the beach and you wear a swimsuit and expect to get wet. If you can get her comfortable on a Sunfish and tipping it over (prebriefed, and not until she's comfortable sailing it or at least being aboard it) and righting it, that should help her confidence. THEN get her on a bigger, heavier, sailboat, and it will seem very stable to her by comparison. If you can ever get her to that point, always reef early and if it's a questionable weather day, don't go at all so she has a chance to continue to put her fears to rest. By going the Sunfish route first, when you eventually get a bigger boat, you will have a whole family of sailors rather than you sailing the boat with a bunch of passengers onboard and that will be more fun for everyone. Good luck!


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## BillMoran

Ajax_MD said:


> That's what we do here, crush dreams. :wink


I went back and re-read my previous post. It wasn't my intention to try to scare you off or anything, but I can see how my comments could be interpreted that way.

My goal was to list out some of the things that I'd noticed that might scare people so you could plan for them and try to avoid them being issues.

Sailing on lake Erie is pretty damn safe unless you're really stupid. You're never very far offshore, so as long as you have a VHF and PFDs for everyone, even the worst case (boat sinks or catches on fire or otherwise needs to be abandoned) isn't likely to result in death. And if you take care of your boat, those worst cases are pretty unlikely. Much more likely is that you'll bang the boat up docking it and get into fights. There are entire memes about people fighting because docking is difficult.

But small lake sailing ... well, that's just fun all the way down. On a smaller lake the weather and waves are much more predictable which allows you to plan trips that aren't outside the ability of anyone. If you somehow lose the boat, you can basically just swim back to shore (as long as you're wearing a PFD, and even if you're not if you're in good shape). Small lakes offer a lot of low-risk exploring and experimenting. Low to the point of almost no risk. You can screw up a lot on a small lake and just come away laughing about it.

But what works for people depends a lot on the personality. Lots of people love the adrenaline rush of single handing a small boat at high speeds. Other people enjoy the camping and exploring aspects of a larger boat on a large body of water.

Like any outdoor activity, there are going to be bad days, when the weather goes foul or an accident causes a skinned knee or whatever. The thing that makes it worth it is finding an aspect of the activity that the person enjoys enough to justify the occasional bad day.

Feeling in control is important to a lot of people. I'm one of them, which is why I spent a year with a smaller boat before making the final decision to buy a bigger one. Taking classes helped me a lot as well, as having an instructor who was an expert at handling the boat demonstrated how well it _could_ be done, and the instructor was good enough to give each of us a little bit of time single-handing the boat, which built up my confidence a lot (maybe too much).

You may not need as much handholding as I did. There are certainly people who more readily jump into new things. My point is that some people do better with the handholding. Consider the possibility that your wife might be one of those people and she might warm up to things better if she took some classes.

Just some thoughts.


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## Don L

Alexander T said:


> I need help from the sailing community, one's that have children with nervous mothers to explain the beautiful benefits to raising kids on sailboats.
> Or explain to me that I am being a reckless father and should only sail by myself for the rest of my life. 😕


I have read none of the replies!!!!

You took her out on an adventure sail for her first time. You screwed up and I've read this story many many many times. Now that is always going to be in her mind now matter how many nice sails you manage to take her out on.

Good luck, but you you need to show her the comfortable side of sailing/cruising to have any chance.


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## Ajax_MD

BillMoran said:


> I went back and re-read my previous post. It wasn't my intention to try to scare you off or anything, but I can see how my comments could be interpreted that way.


Bill,

FWIW, I get more and more conservative as time passes and I have to consciously step on my tongue to avoid joining the "Doom & Gloom Squad." I don't always succeed.

My first "sail" was February, 2010 on a sunny but blustery day with my 16 year old daughters. We punched through the ice in the cove to get out to the river. PFDs but no tethers or jacklines, on a Coronado 25 that doesn't even have side decks. I failed to attach the jib tack and had to leave my daughters in the cockpit to go all the way to the pointy end, to restrain the jib.

Sheer idiocy. Would I do it again that way? No, and I wouldn't recommend that anyone emulate me. Still, we should try not to let our personal paranoias borne of our experiences squash the new folks.


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## slanter

Haha, I'm in completely the opposite situation with you. My wife is a farmgirl, hasn't spent much time on the water, but she loves rollercoasters and other adrenaline-inducing-but-not-very-dangerous activities. I've been taking my daughter out on our little 15' West Wight Potter (The same boat I learned to sail when I was 8) since she was three (she's six now) and last year my wife decided to come with me. 

With my little daughter I've been waiting for weekends where it was light 5-10 knot winds and I figured i'd do the same with her just to start her out. We set out at a decent clip and sailed into the middle of the lake to give her some room if she wanted to take the tiller at some point. As soon as we got into the middle of the lake the wind completely died. completely. I tried nursing a little breeze into the sails for about fifteen minutes but to no avail. So now I think she associates sailing with sitting in the middle of a lake being bored with an extremely frustrated husband and paddling a 500 pound sailboat a half a mile back to the dock.

So now last winter I picked up a Prindle 18 beach-cat that i'm going to learn how to sail, and hopefully I can give her a little more exciting time with that... at the very least it should be easier to paddle than the Potter!

If you want to pick someones brain about trailer-boats and the Great Lakes you might want to talk to Aswayze. He's got a really nice, but relatively rare, trailer sailor that I know he's trailered from Kentucky to the Great Lakes a number of times and has spent weeks at a time on his little sailboat on the great lakes.


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## Alexander T

So I share these posts with my wife as a pro and con kinda thing.

Is everyone sitting? 

Wife: what's the point of getting a smaller boat when you've already started learning on the Hobie? 
Me: whoooa?
Wife: I can see doing the sailing lessons because that sounds fun for the kids. However, why would you buy a smaller boat to sail on for a couple of years and then sell it? Why don't you just get a bigger boat and just learn to sail with your friends and when we go we'll just motor around and not actually sail. 
Me: whoooooaaaa?


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## Arcb

slanter said:


> at the very least it should be easier to paddle than the Potter!


Maybe, maybe not. Beach cats don't paddle all that well. I have done quite a bit of experimenting and measured the results. I was trying to achieve a long distance paddling average speed of 2.22 knots and I experimented quite a bit to try and achieve that average. It was not easy.

You really seem to need two people to paddle a beach cat effectively, one paddling, one steering. Because the person steering is quite far aft, to balance the boat out to maximum water line length the paddler needs to be fairly far forward, where the shrouds interfere some with the paddling. For sprint paddling I like a one knee down (kneeling on one knee) just forward of the shrouds, but this is tiring for any great distance. The alternative for endurance paddling seems to be sitting cross legged just forward of the shrouds, not terribly efficient or comfortable. I find sprinting 2.5 knots is okay, paddling for endurance 2 knots is okay, I doubt your 18 will be much faster to paddle than my 16, maybe slower. Hopefully somebody out there has found a better method than me.

A potter on the hand can be fitted with oar locks. A single person with a couple of 8 foot oars can row a potter 15 pretty decently without a second crew person to steer . Its not fast, but its seems like better body mechanics to me.

Experiment and try it out. Its fun.


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## titustiger27

My guess and I don't have anything but dinghy experience (and never with a motor)

The bigger the boat, the more problems... bigger draft so there are places you cant go... if you are going to wash the bottom, much more to wash..

cost more at the dock... I think some marinas charge by the foot... you might *have* to motor a big boat because some need more wind to move them

As a rule of thumb you can get a better (in shape) boat for the same price if you go small

in rough weather a bigger boat might be safer


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## Arcb

Alexander T said:


> Wife: what's the point of getting a smaller boat when you've already started learning on the Hobie?
> Me: whoooa?
> Wife: I can see doing the sailing lessons because that sounds fun for the kids. However, why would you buy a smaller boat to sail on for a couple of years and then sell it? Why don't you just get a bigger boat and just learn to sail with your friends and when we go we'll just motor around and not actually sail.


Nothing wrong with motoring, if the bulk of your sailing is done on the Mississippi, I suspect you will be motoring lots one way or the other.

I find Ladies often want bigger boats. Some things to keep in mind though, who is going to be maintaining it, launching and recovering it at the boat launch, stepping and unstepping the mast. From what I have read so far, it sounds like its going to be you, possibly without a great deal of help. Boats very quickly become unmanageable for regular trailering as they go up in size.

Here is a vid I shot of myself retrieving my 21 foot 900 lb boat alone.


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## jephotog

Alexander T said:


> So I share these posts with my wife as a pro and con kinda thing.
> 
> Wife: what's the point of getting a smaller boat when you've already started learning on the Hobie?
> Me: whoooa?
> Wife: I can see doing the sailing lessons because that sounds fun for the kids. However, why would you buy a smaller boat to sail on for a couple of years and then sell it? Why don't you just get a bigger boat and just learn to sail with your friends and when we go we'll just motor around and not actually sail.
> Me: whoooooaaaa?


Sounds like your wife is actually convinced sailing is scary or that you are scary. Either way the die is cast. She'll only go sailing with you as long as you don't sail.:wink My wife actually loves sailing especially if the rail is in the water or dolphin are riding the bow. She just gets nervous when she has too much responsibility for the process of making the boat go or stop.

You should buy whatever boat works for you and enjoy sailing as you want. If you really like sailing you need more than one, unless you live on a boat then you get enough sailing in your life and have nowhere to store the other boat(s). As an adrenaline junky you need a boat that meets those needs, for this Hobbies are alright but I think a performance dinghy would be more fun. Go buy yourself a Flying Dutchman. Probably should not take your wife on it.





If you want to take the family sailing buy a Catalina 22 or bigger. When your wife mentions sailing lessons does she mean for the kids or would she be interested? Get her a basic keelboat lesson on a boat 25 feet or bigger. Something with standing headroom, galley and enclosed head would make the experience a lot more fun. Make sailing about warm weather and picnics and less a thrill ride, maybe she could be brought around to the joy of sailing.


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## MarkofSeaLife

Alexander T said:


> So I share these posts with my wife as a pro and con kinda thing.
> 
> Is everyone sitting?
> 
> Wife: what's the point of getting a smaller boat when you've already started learning on the Hobie?
> Me: whoooa?
> Wife: I can see doing the sailing lessons because that sounds fun for the kids. However, why would you buy a smaller boat to sail on for a couple of years and then sell it? Why don't you just get a bigger boat and just learn to sail with your friends and when we go we'll just motor around and not actually sail.
> Me: whoooooaaaa?


Now it's obvious she and I think similarly why don't you go re-read my first 2 posts?

If you want an idea to get her to sail with you again in the future, as opposed to motor around, you could take the next suggestion.... I know you won't want to... (I know it's annoying when someone says that).... Let her decide the boat to buy.

It really doesn't matter to you (except your ego) what boat you own and sail. But it matters to her: her children's safety and her enjoyment.
Let her buy it and don't be a jerk about the way you let it happen... Something like "let's look at some boats together but you select the boat you think will be fun and safe for the kids. I will be happy to accept anything you want". Note, you didn't mention anything about her sailing. She might just start thinking about herself on the boat as well. And if she says it needs an ice box or stowage space for lunch just say yes.


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## Ajax_MD

Alexander T said:


> So I share these posts with my wife as a pro and con kinda thing.
> 
> Is everyone sitting?
> 
> Wife: what's the point of getting a smaller boat when you've already started learning on the Hobie?
> Me: whoooa?
> Wife: I can see doing the sailing lessons because that sounds fun for the kids. However, why would you buy a smaller boat to sail on for a couple of years and then sell it? Why don't you just get a bigger boat and just learn to sail with your friends and when we go we'll just motor around and not actually sail.
> Me: whoooooaaaa?


Your wife is going to learn that a sailboat's motion under power (especially in any kind of breeze or chop) is actually less pleasant than under sail.


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## legend620

My wife wasn't sure about the experience but I traded my Harley for a 34 foot boat without telling her. Surprise honey! I then explained that some people just use them as floating cottages and rarely even go out sailing. When I was ready to take her out I hired a older local sailing instructor to help us go over rigging, safety/docking procedures, right of way and everything else we needed to know BEFORE he even took us out on the water. On the 3rd day when our confidence was higher and we raised the main and shut off the engine it all came into perspective. Laying under those massive sails and hearing the waves rush by with no engine noise was really tranquil.


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## Sal Paradise

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Now it's obvious she and I think similarly why don't you go re-read my first 2 posts?
> 
> If you want an idea to get her to sail with you again in the future, as opposed to motor around, you could take the next suggestion.... I know you won't want to... (I know it's annoying when someone says that).... Let her decide the boat to buy.
> 
> It really doesn't matter to you (except your ego) what boat you own and sail. But it matters to her: her children's safety and her enjoyment.
> Let her buy it and don't be a jerk about the way you let it happen... Something like "let's look at some boats together but you select the boat you think will be fun and safe for the kids. I will be happy to accept anything you want". Note, you didn't mention anything about her sailing. She might just start thinking about herself on the boat as well. And if she says it needs an ice box or stowage space for lunch just say yes.


Although this is well intentioned, it is a bit too specific. Assuming she isn't talking about a 40 foot boat, this may be the one area of sailing where I know what I am talking about. :wink In our case, I just knew much more about boats than my wife, and was more motivated to look and compare. Although I consulted with the wife, as a courtesy, my wife was more than happy to have me just find a trailer sailboat, which she approved by looking at a picture. She's never had much of an opinion on the boat.

Anyway..so really really good for the OP that his wife wants a boat - and they must work it out, the process of buying- between them.

*_Also, just a minor bit of amateur psychology - my wife's fear was never a literally Darwinian one. It was a subconscious irrational fear, and she says this willingly. If it was literally preservation of the offspring, she wouldn't have been so happy with me taking them out without her. She is just literally misreading the heel angle and wind noise as indication of our imminent demise and she and I both are sorry about the stress on her, and I do sail conservatively to help her fell more secure. But the only thing that would really do that 100% would be a Carnival Cruise Ship. _


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## Minnewaska

I’m on wife number 2. You learn a thing or two along the way.


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## Don L

Minnewaska said:


> I'm on wife number 2. You learn a thing or two along the way.


But what boat number are you on :devil


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## caberg

Sal Paradise said:


> In our case, I just knew much more about boats than my wife, and was more motivated to look and compare. Although I consulted with the wife, as a courtesy, my wife was more than happy to have me just find a trailer sailboat, which she approved by looking at a picture. She's never had much of an opinion on the boat. [/I]


This is really more about the nuances of a husband/wife relationship than buying a boat.

We were just like you in terms of boat experience, but in my case we looked at boats together, and when we found the one we wanted, we both were excited about the purchase as we drew up the offer together and ultimately both signed the P&S and both went to the closing and took our first sail together that same day.

Partly, I think my wife appreciated being involved in the purchase because it was a big enough purchase for us that it really had to be a joint decision, but also she then felt a sense of ownership in the boat and a connection to the boat. It isn't "her husband's" boat, it's "our" boat. She still doesn't really care about the act of sailing (and I am for all practical purposes a solo sailor with her on the boat), but she does love spending the whole weekend on the boat and being on the water, and loves being a boat owner.

But again, no right thing here. That's just how it's worked for us.


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## Minnewaska

Don0190 said:


> But what boat number are you on :devil


Good point. 

I kept the boat and airplane, in the divorce, and gave up the house. I had my priorities straight 17 years ago.

p.s. I sent wife #2 to live aboard sailing school, for her birthday (after some discussion of the idea first). Didn't hurt that it was in Tortola. Was it bribery or investment in our future? Hard to say, she loves it now.


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## Sal Paradise

caberg said:


> This is really more about the nuances of a husband/wife relationship than buying a boat.
> 
> We were just like you in terms of boat experience, but in my case we looked at boats together, and when we found the one we wanted, we both were excited about the purchase as we drew up the offer together and ultimately both signed the P&S and both went to the closing and took our first sail together that same day.
> 
> Partly, I think my wife appreciated being involved in the purchase because it was a big enough purchase for us that it really had to be a joint decision, but also she then felt a sense of ownership in the boat and a connection to the boat. It isn't "her husband's" boat, it's "our" boat. She still doesn't really care about the act of sailing (and I am for all practical purposes a solo sailor with her on the boat), but she does love spending the whole weekend on the boat and being on the water, and loves being a boat owner.
> 
> But again, no right thing here. That's just how it's worked for us.


You are right, but I suspect you are talking about something larger than a trailer sailor. I think there is a difference.


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## SV Siren

Minne hits the nail on the head as to what I would suggest. 

Back story: I was a little kid, around 6 or so, when my family bought a shiny new Catalina 22. We trailered that thing every weekend, for two years before biting the bullet and renting a slip. One time my mom invited her parents along for an afternoon sail. Well, the weather went from nice to crap, blowing 30, and to top it off we were sailing in a long narrow bay, and had to tack literally every other minute. The rail was in the water, and the chaos of tacking seemingly all the time just ruined what was hoped to be a great time. My grandparents, never set foot again, over the years, on any of our sailboats. My family sailed for many years, buying larger boats ever 4 years or so. We did tons of day trips, anchoring off beaches, going with a "fleet" of others from our marina for cruises up and down the Lake Michigan shoreline. We basically lived on board for long weekends for 15 years.

The first time I took my family out on a sail, it was on a perfect day on Lake Michigan. My daughter loved, it. She was all over the boat, having a ball with her new friend. My wife was nervous, but still had a good time. She learned to trust the boat, and that it was not going to "tip over", it didn't hurt that is was on a 50' ketch. My wife is still nervous, but she has said she'd like to do some ASA classes, and we have a great school up in Traverse City. I suggested that she go with a friend or two and make a vacation out of it at the same time. You live aboard during the classes. 

From talking to many other people, learning to sail from someone other that your spouse seems to work much better. It might be a great idea for your wife to think about.


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## Sal Paradise

SV Siren said:


> Minne hits the nail on the head as to what I would suggest.
> 
> .


Divorce?


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## SV Siren

Sal Paradise said:


> Divorce?


Sailing school...although option #2 cannot be ruled out. :devil


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## jephotog

SV Siren said:


> From talking to many other people, learning to sail from someone other that your spouse seems to work much better. It might be a great idea for your wife to think about.


My wife enjoys sailing but is nervous as hell to do it with just us two. I managed a boat with a group of owners (that's a story in itself I will share someday) and would often take out any random group of strangers but never with just my wife and I solo. One of the other boat owners had to hire an instructor to get proficient. He had good things to say about him, so I hired him to give my wife a lesson. He was a USCG Captain but had no teaching credentials.

Because my boat had a number of quirks I went out with them. He was calm and patient (a quality I lack). He had some good ways of teaching some techniques, i even learned a few things from him. My wife came away with an appreciation of her skills because even though she resisted learning about anything on the boat, she is pretty handy on a boat.

IMO she really did not learn anything useful from this instructor at all, she simply earned some confidence. As an example, my main halyard was very stiff (top sheave maybe), making it fairly difficult to raise the main. As the owner of the boat and a mast man on competitive boats, I had a technique to make it easier.
I told the instructor how to get it done, but he showed my wife instead how to wrap the halyard around your hand a few time and lean back to get the sail up. Even my wife who grew up on powerboats knew that was wrong but did just went with it.

The key to our lesson is my wife came away with enough confidence so we could sail a boat ourselves and I learned a way to let her prepare way ahead of time and discuss each maneuver long before it happened. So I did not need to pursue option #2.


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## Sal Paradise

Part of the friction, I think, is just the difference between the modern, dare I say politically correct world, and overly sensitive modern people... and what it actually takes to sail together. Skills, shared purpose, patience....even shouted commands ! How dare he? Its positively barbarian.


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## Don L

If it takes more to convince your wife to go sailing than hitting her over the head with a club and dragging her to the boat by the hair, it's probably a lost cause!


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## Minnewaska

Sal Paradise said:


> Part of the friction, I think, is just the difference between the modern, dare I say politically correct world, and overly sensitive modern people... and what it actually takes to sail together. Skills, shared purpose, patience....even shouted commands ! How dare he? Its positively barbarian.


Hilarious point. My wife absolutely hates me saying "stand-by". It's a term that is commonly used in the cockpit, to inform crew or ATC that you are busy flying the airplane, but heard their message and will reply shortly. There are occasions where this isn't acceptable, but it's in everyones interests that you fly the plane first. I, therefore, use it aboard, out of habit.

For example, I may be solo at the helm, pinched up on the wind, trying to barely take the stern of a crossing vessel, without having to tack away. She yells up from the galley, in that moment, asking where the MacKensie-Child's cheese spread knife is. The appropriate reply is not "stand by". It's reportedly, "I have conflicting traffic that is demanding all my feeble attention and I will help you locate the knife, when conditions have returned to the level that my pea brain can handle". Due to said pea brain not having the band wind to recall this proper phraseology, I usually pipe out "stand by"and take my medicine later.


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## jephotog

Minnewaska said:


> Hilarious point. My wife absolutely hates me saying "stand-by".


At least you aren't telling her to "disregard," after instantly realizing you said something wrong.

I have to confess, I have not even watched the video. I know all the reasons to not buy a boat and don't want to watch it, in case the video has a persuasive argument.


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## Sal Paradise

People wonder why we sail. It seems like a lot of trouble. 

In a moment of weakness, I've tried to explain to non sailors how the sailboat doesn't care at all what you want, or how you want it to be. To sail,you must do what the boat needs you to do, when it needs to be done. You might wait a while with a line in your hand feeling ignored or bored only to be shouted at to pull it or release it quickly. You might get everything set and have to take it all down and reset it, or the wind might die and you just sit there, feeling gypped. That's the price you willingly pay. 

But then there is that magic carpet ride, that rushing dazzling magic sail where the wind angles are just right and the sky is huge and beautiful...the water sparkles, or turns dark and dramatic in its deep mysterious splendor.The sun lights up the water, or the shoreline like you've never seen and it just goes on and on. The tiller is like a a Stradivarius of the wind and you and the boat are playing a duet for all your friends. Where you once were riding the edge of the wind, now you are in the groove. There is something so perfect about the way the boat climbs each wave and then goes over and down again. You forget about the city, the highway, the traffic and all the bad news everyday. You sit back and take in the glory of what is happening and you suddenly remember who you are, and what you really care about. The lighthouse is lit up by the evening sun, and your friends are taking pictures of it as you glide by. That is the prize when - not if - but when you get lucky. And we get lucky a lot.


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## jtsailjt

Minnewaska said:


> Hilarious point. My wife absolutely hates me saying "stand-by". It's a term that is commonly used in the cockpit, to inform crew or ATC that you are busy flying the airplane, but heard their message and will reply shortly. There are occasions where this isn't acceptable, but it's in everyones interests that you fly the plane first. I, therefore, use it aboard, out of habit.
> 
> For example, I may be solo at the helm, pinched up on the wind, trying to barely take the stern of a crossing vessel, without having to tack away. She yells up from the galley, in that moment, asking where the MacKensie-Child's cheese spread knife is. The appropriate reply is not "stand by". It's reportedly, "I have conflicting traffic that is demanding all my feeble attention and I will help you locate the knife, when conditions have returned to the level that my pea brain can handle". Due to said pea brain not having the band wind to recall this proper phraseology, I usually pipe out "stand by"and take my medicine later.


Yes, and how many times have you been in the cockpit on the ground running a checklist or listening intently on the vhf to a clearance or to maintenance or ops, when a stressed out gate agent o flight attendant enters the cockpit already talking to you and demanding your attention without checking what else might be going on, forcing you to ask the person on the other end of the radio to repeat? It's a very good thing that we lock the door inflight for more reasons than just security. "Standby" works fine in cases like this, but on the boat, when it's the wife demanding your immediate attention, another phrase might work better, such as "just a minute please" or something a bit less terse sounding than "standby."


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## Simply Sailing

We had planned on sailing away after the kids were grown, but in 2000 we found a boat small enough that I (as a petite woman) could handle alone and we could afford, and big enough that we and our 3 boys could live on, (a 34-foot Creekmore) so we threw caution to the wind, quit our careers, and sailed away. I homeschooled our boys all the way through graduation. One just received his Master's in Marine Biology (studying algae), one is finishing his bachelor's in physics and doing his graduate work in astrophysics. And one is a vagabond, raising his own son on his boat with his very lovely and tolerant wife. Not a month goes by that one of those boys doesn't thank us for how they were raised. Just yesterday our youngest completed a 200+ mile bicycle trip and his picture caption included the line "and I want to thank my parents for showing me that I can do ANYTHING I put my mind to." I think that's what this lifestyle teaches kids. I would not change a thing and neither would the boys. We are still living aboard, btw, now as emptynesters. 17 years, 25,000 miles. We've never looked back or regretted a thing. Everyone agrees: boat kids are the best. Good luck to you!


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## Ajax_MD

Sal Paradise said:


> People wonder why we sail. It seems like a lot of trouble.


This is what most of my non-sailing acquaintances or co-workers say to me. I've given up trying to explain it.
Somehow in our culture, expending energy or physical effort in the pursuit of recreation is now regarded as dumb, silly, boorish, crude.

In my office, when the discussion turns to "What did you do this weekend?" as it invariable does, the answers I hear the most are:

1. Watched a movie or binge-watched some streaming video series.
2. Played video games all weekend (These are not millennials, I'm talking people in their late 30's and 40's.)
3. Golfed. (this actually translates into riding in a cart and drinking all day by their own description)
4. Watched sports on TV.

I have one co-worker who is an avid cyclist. He's the only one who understands the reward that comes with physical effort.


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## MarkofSeaLife

Ajax_MD said:


> 1. Watched a movie or binge-watched some streaming video series.
> 2. Played video games all weekend (These are not millennials, I'm talking people in their late 30's and 40's.)
> 3. Golfed. (this actually translates into riding in a cart and drinking all day by their own description)
> 4. Watched sports on TV.


At least with golf they are out there in the 'real' world. The others are all someone elses adventures that they are merely watching.

If you know what I did before I went sailing, people often ask me if I would do another job. I tell them that I worked on other peoples adventures. Now I am making my own.

Why watch Bewitched when you can wriggle your own nose?

Mark


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## kaisersling

Look into joining the Pocket Yacht and Trailer sailors group on Facebook. Very helpful bunch.


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## zedboy

A little late to the discussion - been sailing with my kids now for about 8 years. They absolutely love it, and always have. My 6-year-old complains if conditions aren't at least a little sporty. First trailer-sailors on Lake Simcoe north of Toronto, now "the big boat" at 31' on the Med.

(obviously I only take them out in conditions well within my ability, which means nothing that would come close to challenging the boat)


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