# heeling



## Loualfr (Sep 3, 2002)

ok, thought I'd see if I can get a woman's perspective on this from other woman sailors. We sail somewhat less than I'd like, mainly b/c we have two 2 year olds and our boat isn't all that big and stable. But, when we do sail, my wife is not real keen on heeling past 10 degrees, any hints on how I can make her more comfortable with it, other than sailing more often(which I'd like to do but is hard to fit in to the sched. currently). thanks.


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## Libellula (Aug 20, 2007)

pick your weather carefully
and reef early
keep it fun and make your trips short for now


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Lou, I don't think sex is relevant here. (Even if protecting the yoing is going to make her more dangerous than usual.<G>)

Some new sailors get real upset by heeling the boat, and the way to get past that--if you are going to get past it--is usually by _experience _(more sailing in progressively more heel) and building confidence about the conditions, the boat, and the skipper. Can't rush the experience, that will only terrify her.

Honestly? Sending her to a womens' sailing program like Womenship and having her learn how to sail (and that heeling is normal) without a spousal connection, is probably the best way to go.

Meantime, reefing early, playing the traveler and keeping the boat fairly flat is probably a good way to keep it sailing fast, too. Somewhere between 10-15 degrees of heel is where most boats start to just make excess leeway and lose speed toward the mark, anyhow.


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## GySgt (Jun 11, 2007)

My wife was like that, until she had the tiller in her hand. Now she loves to put the toe rail in the water and scream like she is at Disney Land, then denies doing it on purpose. She also asks, "where does the little pointer thing need to be up there for a close reach"


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

GySgt said:


> She also ask, "where does the little pointer thing need to be up there for a close reach"


GySgt, I really wish you had said this in the off topic area, lol


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## GySgt (Jun 11, 2007)

LOL, probably best I did'nt


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## kananumpua (Jan 2, 2006)

Like HelloSailor said, heeling slows you down so reef early and learn to predict the wind so that you can travel down before it gets to you. This will both keep the wife happy and keep you sailing fast. Eventually you will get a burst and the boat will heel over, sometimes to where you've got water coming into the cockpit. After this happens a number of times she will see that it's more annoying than life threatening.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Heeling does not slow the boat down. Excessive heeling does... and you slip to leeward. Most hulls and sail plans have an optimal angle of heel. It's never 0°... but I'm usually wrong.

I found this quote online:

The VPP work completed for this design indicates typical upwind heel angles of approximately 15 degrees. In way of reference, a larger canting keel boat typically operates with average upwind heel angles of around 20 degrees, while fixed keel yachts typically heel a bit more again, around an average of 23 degrees upwind. Optimum upwind heel angles are produced in a VPP by balancing a boat near maximum righting moment while maintaining the sailplan's maximum efficiency. A lower optimum heel angle indicates a boat whose maximum righting moment arrives relatively earlier.

jef
sv shiva


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## WinterRiver (Oct 20, 2006)

I've been working with my 10 year old daughter on this one. I was surprised when she got nervous about heeling, since she's usually quite adventurous and a thrill seeker. As others have suggested, for her it's a confidence thing. I sailed a lot growing up, but we were away from the water for too long and she is just learning.

She spent time on a dinghy at camp this summer, which made her more nervous. It didn't help that she saw other kids go for an unexpected swim. I acknowledged her fears and kept repeating what she could do if she felt like the puff was too much and she was getting out of control. Let out the sail, head up a bit, etc. She understands these things intellectually, but needs to put them into practice enough times to develop that gut feeling that everything's OK. Like hellosailor said, it takes time and experience to gain confidence.

(Climbing up onto my soapbox now....) I'll ask everyone -- when was the last time you were an absolute beginner at something intellectually and physically demanding that is often percieved as being dangerous? Do you remember what it's like to not know what to do, or to know exactly what you should be doing but not trust that you can make it all happen consistently? Want to remember? Try a new sport. Rent a windsurfer and head out on the lake. Take a snowboarding lesson. Go to the local skate park and have the kids show you how to drop into a bowl. Ever tried pole vaulting? (Climbing down now....)

That's a long-winded way to say that I agree with everyone's advice. Good (non-spouse) coaching, patience, practice and experience. The more time she spends on the tiller in mellow conditions, the more comfortable she will become. If you bring the kids, I suspect you'll find that she's more than happy to drive while you keep them happy and safe.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Get a multihull... Heeling about 10˚ is close to the max... unless you're hotdogging and really pushing it... then Murphy will probably capsize you..and it'll still be relatively flat...but upside down.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

WinterRiver said:


> ...
> (Climbing up onto my soapbox now....) I'll ask everyone -- when was the last time you were an absolute beginner at something intellectually and physically demanding that is often percieved as being dangerous? Do you remember what it's like to not know what to do, or to know exactly what you should be doing but not trust that you can make it all happen consistently? Want to remember? Try a new sport. Rent a windsurfer and head out on the lake. Take a snowboarding lesson. Go to the local skate park and have the kids show you how to drop into a bowl. Ever tried pole vaulting? (Climbing down now....)
> ...


When I lived in Colorado I had a buddy that was a ski instructor and he was always learning different types of skiing or related snow toys. He said it was partly because he enjoyed snow and the challenge, but also because to be good at his job he needed to be reminded what it's like to look at a tree 40 yards away with fear in his eyes (for the sake of non skiers, an experienced skier often turns within 5 yards of obstructions without concern).


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## Loualfr (Sep 3, 2002)

thanks all, I will work on it with her. we're pretty mellow sailors for the most part, fair weather and short daysails for now, so hopefully she'll ease into it!!


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

First you didn't say what kind of boat you two are sailing on. Most new women sailors don't like the heel because of two things. One, they don't understand why the boat doesn't tip over (non dingy boats). Like I have said in other post, I show them why with a tongue depressor and use the analogy of a teeter-tatter with a fat boy on the end. I also take them to a boat yard to see the keel for themselves. The second is control, or in this case the lose of control. Here I let them take the helm or give them the sheet line to the mainsail. When they are uncomfortable I show them how to upright the boat. In addition, since most women are shorter than men, with short legs, women don't have a place to brace ourselves while the boat heels, we are defiantly not going to like the heeling. 
The only time the boat starts to really heal and feel out of control to most women is reaching high into the wind. The other points of sail the boat for the most part is upright and "under control". My suggestion to you is don't reach high for the first couple of sails. If you have to, drop the jib and/or reef the main. As far as some of the suggestions of Womanship or other for only women sailing programs I couldn't agree more. They are great!
Good luck.
Melissa


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I don't care for excessive heel... because moving around and doing anything below is a pisser. Some boats are downright dangerous because of the absence of handholds

And when heeled a lot have the comfy places are gone. I love to see how my dogs find a nice cosy secure place in the lee... like under the dodger or on the lee berth. 

Food prep is a pisser too... pouring a drink ... you name it.

Using the head is a pain too... not to mention getting there an getting your trousers down. hahaha

I'm not afraid of the heeling... I'm inconvenienced by it.

jef
sv shiva


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## Rickm505 (Sep 4, 2005)

Time for a two hulled solution?


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

SanderO, I know what you mean, in 4foot seas and 25knt winds I went below to take a shower and shave. After that took a steep walk up hill to the galley to prep lunch, it was fun and challenging. 

Dennis 
O'Day 302


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Rick,

Cats definitely have the advantage on the heeling issue... but we tend not to go turtle. and feeling the boat heel to the wind DOES have a thrilling feel.

Point well taken.

jef
sv shiva


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Jef-

Multihulls may turn turtle, but it takes a lot of work to do so, and generally it is racing multihulls, rather than the cruising ones, that do so. However, as a general rule... multihulls tend not to sink... which is a common failing of those monohull leadmines you sail.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Try racing, when your concentration is on winning your fear of heeling over, gybing, etc... fades rather quickly.


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## tenuki (Feb 11, 2007)

jboatjack said:


> Try racing, when your concentration is on winning your fear of heeling over, gybing, etc... fades rather quickly.


Hahahah, to be replace by the fear of hitting one of the 40 odd expensive racing boats, or broaching while flying the spinaker, or death rolling. Good one jboatjack.


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## SailorPam (Sep 18, 2007)

I can relate to your wife. I was all gungho on the boat until the first couple times we sailed her. Then I had the biggest meltdown of my life when we hit 30 degrees heel (unintentionally, we were both new). I'd never heard myself wimper before that  And I'm not really a squealer type if you know what I mean My husband decided if this was going to work (which I really wanted) we were going to have to back up. Bless his heart  So three things helped - 1)We installed a clinometer so I could quantify the amount of heel. 2)Dave insisted that we only go out on days I was comfortable being at the helm, with just the mainsail up, and we would do that until I was bored with it. 3)I was sitting in my office one day looking at the clock  and realized that the 5 minute mark was the equivalent of 30 degrees of heel. So at 30 degrees (which is avoided since it's 10+ degrees beyond the most efficient angle) the mast is pointing to 1 o'clock. So when I would get tense after that I would just say to myself "It's only 5 (or 4 or 3) minutes, I can handle this." Of course the deck goes from 3 o'clock to 4 o'clock, but that's another issue. Anyway that combo worked for me. This is our third season of sailing and I now take our Catalina 25 out by myself, sometimes overnight. I hope that helps.


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