# Seaworthy Sailboat Help!



## riverwind (Aug 16, 2012)

To start, I'll tell you my plans with the boat.
A friend and I, both 20 yrs old, and are experienced surfers and sailers. We've both always wanted to go on an adventure to wherever we might end up, meeting new people and surfing new breaks along the way. So the plan is to be crossing oceans as big as the pacific. Basically going around the world in a criss-cross, zig-zag pattern, stopping basically wherever we want. 

We have a budget of no more than $25,000 for a boat, and want something small. 30' at the least, 40' at the most. Something the two of us can easily handle alone(while one of us is getting rest). We would preferably want a center-cockpit so that we can each have our own birth(aft-birth and v-birth). Obviously a functional galley will be needed, and at least one head w/ a shower. We'll be travelling with a couple boards each, and I realize a small boat is limited in terms of space, but somewhere to store our surfboards would be nice. 
Most importantly, for our budget, we want the most seaworthy sailboat we can find. Advice from anyone and everyone is welcome! and Thank you!


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## riverwind (Aug 16, 2012)

Sorry if this is in the wrong section. I figured sailboat review would be fine, because it will basically be a review of any boats suggested.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Since you are surfers, you should get an Olson 30 - it will surf. No functional kitchen ("galley") or head with shower, but it is fairly seaworthy. Welcome to your pipe berths and plywood bulkhead!


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## riverwind (Aug 16, 2012)

Looking for a little more boat than that. thanks for the input though!


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## SeaQuinn (Jul 31, 2012)

Have you ever sailed on the ocean? If not....I would suggest you offer to crew a few times before you buy a boat....that way you will know what you will want to have as far as size, systems, equipment and such, plus you will see if ocean travel really is for you. It will also help you to determine if your budget will cover the things you will need.
I have found that each person is different....what some consider essential is excess to others.


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## riverwind (Aug 16, 2012)

I've crossed the pacific in my dads Macgregor 65. Sailed the Caribbean in a few cats, and when I was young, raised living on my parents O'Day 37. I know what I want as far as size, 30-40ft, and either already have all the equipment I need or know what I want. I just want suggestions and personal experiences of ocean going sailboats of this size within my budget so I have a place to start my search. I've already found a few I am considering. I just need a few suggestions to find something I may have missed or don't yet know of.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

New York 36

Santana 34

Santana 30 

Schock 35


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## riverwind (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks I'll check those out!


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

Better define what you mean by seaworthy - my boat doesn't leak a drop but that doesn't mean I'd want to sail it out of range of land and weather forcasts.

People on this site lean conservative - they tend to want a boat that can handle anything thrown at it if they're headed offshore. I.e. new(er) rigging if boat is used, carefully anchored chainplates, skeg-hung or keel-hung rudders, etc. You might see a lot of 30-something foot coastal cruisers in your pricerange that would be great family boats, but aren't built as conservatively.


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## paul323 (Mar 13, 2010)

Zedboy is correct...there are basically (no flaming please - I am talking in generalities about a very subjective subject!) 3 types of boat; racers, cruisers, and blue-water. Every sailboat can do some of each of these; I have an excellent coastal cruiser (i.e. seakindly, comfortable), lose most races (slow), and would not take her across the Pacific. Why? Risk tolerance. The boat is strong enough, and would probably make it, but there are dozens of changes I would need to make to ensure I would survive, say, a major storm. As I always say to folks - imagine you turn the boat upside down and shake it. How secure is everything down below? Anything come loose? Now imagine hitting the sides with a sledgehammer. Plastic windows - nope. I could go on....a true bluewater boat is built like a tank, and tends to be heaver, more solid, slower, smaller inside and more expensive than an equivalent-sized racer (e.g. Olson) or coastal cruiser.

The subject is very subjective. It all comes down to your tolerance of risk. Even within a manufacturer (e.g. Catalina) some models are more suitable to offshore than others - and many would argue (and have) that none are offshore boats!

I have to admit that in your shoes I would look for a solid coastal cruiser, and expect to take a few years coastal cruising to learn the ropes - and then, when you really know what you are doing, upgrade or replace the boat. Sail the Keys or the Caribbean. In your price range a solid 80's coastal cruising (e.g Pearson, Tartan) would be a good choice.


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

Paul's post reminds me of a story that happened to someone I know. He bought a Pearson Triton - a boat a lot of people would consider to have bluewater potential - real cheap, and spent a few months fixing her soft decks and redoing the interior. He then set off on a sail down the CA coast, and sliding down the backside of a big roller he landed with a bit of a bump and popped a swage on the shroud. All of a sudden his rig was coming down around him - luckily he wasn't more than a few miles out. He called the CG, they helped him cut away the rig and towed him back in.

What would've happened had he been halfway to HI and a storm brewing? He shoulda know better than to trust 40+-year-old rigging.

Since then whenever I see a chainplate thru-bolted to the cabin trunk (likely without a backing plate ) or a spade rudder I think "How many big thumps would that survive?"


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Sounds to me like you want and older Cal or Soverel. Late 60's model, 36 to 40 footers.

Re-rig it with sta-lok top and bottom, get a couple of big anchors and oversize chain, a spool or two of 1/2" 3 strand and pop a dual action hand crank windlass on the bow.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

If these are your goals, 
_"A friend and I, both 20 yrs old, and are experienced surfers and sailers. We've both always wanted to go on an adventure to wherever we might end up, meeting new people and surfing new breaks along the way. So the plan is to be crossing oceans as big as the Pacific. Basically going around the world in a criss-cross, zig-zag pattern, stopping basically wherever we want."  And

"We would preferably want a center-cockpit so that we can each have our own birth(aft-berth and v-berth). Obviously a functional galley will be needed, and at least one head w/ a shower."_

Then none of these make any sense at all:
_"Olson 30"
"New York 36, Santana 34, Santana 30, Schock 35 "_

In reality these boats are okay for their purpose, but were by no stretch of the imagination even vaguely intended for what you are proposing to do. Faced with your objectives it seems like you should have a more focused list of criterial than you do.

For example, the traditional rule of thumb for distance voyaging is that the boat should have somewhere between 5,500 lbs and 11,000 lbs of displacement per person, with the upper end of the limit creeping up as better hardware and the desire for more space has prevailed. This displacement per crewman was generally a compromise between carrying enough supplies and consumables and what could be easily managed by the crew.

Similarly, you will need adequate tankage, storage, ground tackle handling. You will need good seaberths (vee berths and aft cabins berths on smallish boats are useless features offshore), an offshore suitable galley and head, and a pretty robust boat to take the kind of use and abuse that distance cruising implies. Nice as they are to have as a liveaboard, showers really do not make sense on an small distance cruiser (use too much water and take up too much space)

Lastly boats in good shape with these kinds of features do not come cheaply, but the can be found. If I had to start somewhere I would look at perhaps something like a first generation Seawind, Ericson Independence (31C), Pearson 323 or perhaps a Westsail. There are better performers out there but probably not with the mix you would need to do what you want to do....

Jeff


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

You can't go wrong with a Westsail, I've seen 'em for 25 grand in the 30 something foot range.
Let's not rule out an older 35 foot Prout catamaran. They are out there and have done some circ's.


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## CaptTony (May 22, 2011)

Am I missing something here? There is no way you will get you get a seaworthy boat and do the necessary outfitting for $25,000. If you want to sail the Pacific, you're going to need at minimum two to three times that amount. Even a 40 year old Westsail will need a lot of work.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

CaptTony said:


> Am I missing something here? There is no way you will get you get a seaworthy boat and do the necessary outfitting for $25,000. If you want to sail the Pacific, you're going to need at minimum two to three times that amount. Even a 40 year old Westsail will need a lot of work.


NO NO NO NO NO. That thought process is why more people are'nt doing it, My buddy just sold is 1966 Cal 36 for ten grand, ready to go. For over the hill suburbanites who are new to the game and need all the crap their house had in it to even consider living on a boat, yes the 80,000 dollar gadget boat is a must. For young adventurous, salty, dudes, all we ever needed was a sound hull, stout rig, some decent used sails and a compass. And YES, you are missing out on the wonderful life of simple barebones, gadgetless and affordable cruising that quite a few of us enjoy. I'm betting your "absolutly need's" are guy's like me "Absolutly don't want's" and that's fine. But these dudes should know that yes, they can get a boat for $10,000 and have $15,000 for the trip.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

There is a misconception about the 'size' of sailboat required. 

The New York 36 was designed to do the Bermuda Race in style and comfort for a crew of 6-8 by a group of the New York Yacht Club. 

Schock 35s have sailed across the Pacific. 


A Schock Harbor 25 was just in a microburst - 50+ kts peak recorded. Only boat to keep sailing. Rest of harbor had boats demasted, sails torn up, water everywhere. The Owner of the Schock Harbor 25 was single handing, he furled his jib and kept sailing. Said he had the time of his life - screaming along in 40+ knts winds.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

I have always been intrigued by the NY36 - they seem to be great values right now.

Do you think a NY36 could be sailed solo fairly easily?


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## cal30 (Nov 17, 2007)

Howzit Riverwind,
Good luck with your plans. Hopefully, your buddy has some offshore experience as well. Some good advice given so far. If it's the Pacific you're starting in, there's always boats in Papa'ete, Tahiti for sale. Fiji as well. I've been to both,good surfing, but have no knowledge of accomodations for crusing boats. Something to check out. We have a Cal, and it's a great boat. But, for cruising between the Hawaiian Islands(rough water), I ride with my friend on an Cheoy Lee Offshore 41. 20 tons displacement,3/4 cutaway keel and barn door rudder. A liitle more protection against things that bump in the night. My opinion is heavy displacement and manageable sail plans is best. As for Hawaii, you'd be moored on the South shore during the good surfing months(winter) as there are no good, safe anchorages on the North Shore. 25 grand will get you a boat (probably 30 years old)that could do what you're planning, but getting it ready would be another 15, with new rigging , engine overhaul and any other essentials you will need. My opinion only. I hope that you guys get to do it. Good Luck.


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