# ?LEDs causing interference with VHF?



## LittleFlower (Jul 1, 2008)

Hello. I just installed an LED tri-color and an LED anchor light. I say "installed" but really it was as easy as climbing up the mast and changing a lightbulb. Unfortunately, now whenever I have the light on (either one) I only hear static on all stations on my VHF, no matter what I do with the squelch. Its no good because its important that I have the tri-color and the VHF working properly at the same time for night sailing. Any suggestions as to what is causing this?
Sincerely,
Teresa
Sailing, Simplicity, and the Pursuit of Happiness


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Hi Teresa
I don't know the solution to the problem but there are many references to it on the web. I even found a post on a British forum by someone who replaced some lights on his car with leds and lost his fm radio reception, same result as you. I did find the item I am including below. They reference "EMI filtration". Hopefully someone like Maine Sail will chip in with a solution. 
I've been to your site before - nicely done. I live on a CS27 in Victoria B.C.
Good luck
Brian


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## Kilohoku (Nov 9, 2009)

*It's not the LEDs themselves*

LEDs don't generate noise themselves, the circuits added to manage volts and amps for brightnesses and LED life do. In bulbs, you can't get to these without destroying the bulb. In LED "units" messing with the circuits will void the warranty.

Remove the vhf antenna and listen to the vhf. If you still have the noise the LED bulb/unit is putting a noise signal into the supply side for the radio and you need a filter on the radio power red/white. You can get these from a car stereo shop. A second way th verify this is move the mast-head bulb to a deck level bulb socket and check for noise.

Second, borrow a VHF handheld if you don't have one. Turn the light on and go to the mast head (with your main VHF OFF). Move the handled around the light and see if you get the noise. If you can raise the handheld high enough to escape the noise, raise your installed antenna. Most antennas have extension struts you can buy.

I'd still put a noise filter across the radio DC supply lines in any case.

One note, commercial operators with wheelhouses high off the water here on the East Coast don't like the mast-head tricolors. They make it very hard to figure out how far away a boat using one is. If two boats are side by side, one using side lights and one using tricolor, the tri-color boat will appear to be a larger vessel with brighter lights farther away. Offshore it's a different story.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Teresa—

It would help if you said what LED tri-color and anchor light you had installed. It doesn't sound like you've installed a dedicated LED fixture, like the OrcaGreen Marine or Lopo Lights units, but just replaced the bulb in a standard fixture, like an Aquasignal 40 series, with an LED replacement bulb, like those sold by Dr. LED. 

Adding ferrite cores to the power cables may help, but knowing what LED lights you're using will greatly speed up tracking down what the issues are.


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## FishmanTx (May 27, 2009)

I found this on Panbo regarding OrcaGreen, but I bet it's widespread amongst LEDs vs VHF.
Panbo: The Marine Electronics Weblog: LED nav lights, a fast moving target



> Quote:
> After several conversations with those few folks who are experiencing RF interference with their LED TriAnchor light, we think we have narrowed the cause down to the newer more sensitive VHF radios (and/or positioning of the antenna to the light). The radios that seem to be the most sensitive (and thus the interference) are ICOM 504 or 522 and also the West Marine/Uniden 600 models. Older radios or less sensitive radios don't seem to have any issues with interference, so the issue is very isolated as we can tell, however we are working on a way to eliminate the possibility going forward as newer technology becomes available. Our engineering team has devised a fix for the current TriAnchor light using a very specific ferrite bead (Fair-Rite P/N0 431167281), which can be purchased from a variety of electronic parts stores including Mouser and DigiKey. If you have one of the above radios and are experiencing RF interference, you can purchase one of these directly or call us for one.
> To Install the Fair-Rite P/N 0431164781 bead, wrap the bead around a section of the wire with 1 loop in it and as close to the end by the light as possible. The wires should pass through it twice (as shown in photo). The Ferrite bead is a clamp on type, so no rewiring is required as long as you have enough play in the wire to make the loop.
> Again, this is a very small percentage of folks and currently we've honed it to the very sensitive newer VHF radios. As mentioned in our earlier FAQ, we are designing a more eloquent fix into the new circuitry of our 12-24V TriAnchor light which will be available later this spring. We will also include this ferrite bead in our packaging, though most folks won't need it. We encourage you to test your light prior to installation and if you do need it, you will have it readily available.


The link with the "fix". Just like the ferrite bead on a USB cable.
http://ogmtechnical.blogspot.com/200...-and-need.html 
__________________
Fish


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

FishManTX—

I'd point out that I have the OGM Tri-Anchor LED light and an Icom M504 radio and have no issues with buzzing or interference.


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## LittleFlower (Jul 1, 2008)

I have an Aquasignal 40 series and an Dr. LED bulb.

I wonder if this is worth all the trouble. Perhaps its better if I go back to the other bulbs, at least for the tri-color, since I always have my VHF on when I have the tri-color on.

Teresa
Sailing, Simplicity, and the Pursuit of Happiness


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

But that does defeat the purpose of saving amps when under sail. If you can solve the problem you can use the vhf and save power.
Brian


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

LittleFlower said:


> I have an Aquasignal 40 series and an Dr. LED bulb.
> 
> I wonder if this is worth all the trouble. Perhaps its better if I go back to the other bulbs, at least for the tri-color, since I always have my VHF on when I have the tri-color on.
> 
> ...


Beyond the noise issue Dr. LED has been quite misleading for a long time about their USCG certifications. The tricolor light is NOT USCG certified in an Aquasignal Series 40 anyway. Of course this may not matter to you anyway.. Dr. LED has also had numerous failure issues and noise issues to which they have done little in the way of customer satisfaction.

I tested a bunch of interior bulbs and the only one with no noise was the Sensibulb. All the others caused differing levels of "noise" while not debilitating to the use of the VHF it was annoying as heck..

I would call James at Dr. LED and see what he'll do for you. For the price he is getting he should have similar circuitry to what the Sensibulb uses to eliminate noise...


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Like Kilohoku said, the cause is probably in the circuitry that quickly switches the LED on and off to get the desire brightness, or in the power circuit if it is using PWM to generate the required voltages. Edit - Or, if the LED's are actually red and green and quickly switched to create yellow, it is probably in the circuitry that reverses the polarity of the LED's to create yellow.


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## boofus (Jul 27, 2008)

This illustrates the problem with retrofit bulbs. Trying to fit too much into too small of a package. There will be issues with these bulbs, premature failure, cheep circuitry, etc. Be careful with these on your boats and homes in the future. The next generation of high brightness led's will outperform any of the Dr. Led style bulbs, but will be best used in purpose built fixtures that are engineered for the specific needs of LED's. Haven't looked too closely at the ogm lights, but as with most things, you get what you pay for......


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I would second contacting James and seeing what he'll do for you... _but I would warn you that Dr. LED's record of standing behind their product is less than stellar. _ Also, as Maine Sail has pointed out, their honesty about their lights and USCG approval is less than complete. *A lot of sailors have bought their products based on price and the "USCG certification", which most of their products don't have, and found that their products don't have much in the way of reliability either. *

I would highly recommend getting a USCG approved/certified LED light fixture. Unfortunately, this is generally a more expensive option than keeping the existing light fixture and replacing the bulb. The OGM tri-anchor light is about $380... the Lopolight is a bit more expensive... and Hella Marine has a new one out, but I haven't seen pricing on it yet.

*Current USCG-certified LED tricolor or Tricolor/anchor light manufacturers include:*

Signalmate, about $350 as an introductory price and started manufacturing this month.

Orca Green Marine, about $380 for the tri-anchor

Aquasignal, with their Series 32 LED lights.

Lopolight, which is probably the most expensive brand

Hella Marine, has a new Tricolor/anchor LED light


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## 14432 (Oct 24, 2006)

Do you have a masthead antenna? If so, it could be that you knocked something loose at the masthead during the installation - although that would not explain the static only while the light is on.


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## FishmanTx (May 27, 2009)

sailingdog said:


> FishManTX-
> 
> I'd point out that I have the OGM Tri-Anchor LED light and an Icom M504 radio and have no issues with buzzing or interference.


Just quoting what I found. If you read carefully it sez.."...with those few folks who are experiencing RF interference". Which indicates not everyone has the problem. Unfortunately, Littleflower does. And it's not unique to OGM. But she has a replacement bulb with a standard fixture.

It's more than likely a power/grounding issue, noisy v-reg, etc. This is why placement of the choke is as close to the fixture as possible. If you have a separate driver/supply, put the choke on the cable as close to the supply as possible. Since they are dirt cheap, you could put one on both ends.

I've heard a little bit of bad rep about Dr.LED...

Re: Hella:
Hella NaviLED Trio
about $400


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## Doupirate (Nov 15, 2011)

I have a OGM anchor light USCG 2NM and it has the interference problem. Orca admits their earlier models have that problem.

But there is worse: it is submersible but not vapor tight hence resulting in a catastrophic condensation problem. http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/80776-ogm-anchor-light-water-condensation.html#post796912

I would suppose being submersible is a USCG requirement. Therefore I recommend avoiding all USCG approved lights.

The interference problem is not a big deal. It suffices to install this on the power supply circuit of the radios and the noise is filtered out. I installed it two days ago:


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