# Lancer 36 Sloop



## jnrii (Sep 25, 2001)

Would like to get any information I can on the Lancer 36 sloop designed by Bill Lee. Thanks.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I suggest that you check the archives. There was a good discussion on the Lancer 36 within the last month. Not a great boat. 

Jeff


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## starlightventure (Apr 26, 2009)

*starlightventure*

Starlightventure's spin on the Lancer 36.

They are a great boat for speed. It was the first boat under 40' to win the Trans Pac. They were built for ocean racing. They are light weight, 10,000. pounds, but a strong hull. The mast is deck stepped and ok if it is maintained, the shrouds must not be to loose or the mast rocking side ways back and forth will stress out the deck core where the mast is stepped, could be bad, if maintained its ok. They are approximately 30% lighter than a Catalina 36 so you tend to go over the top of the wave instead of plowing through it, and like all light weight racers it can be a rough ride with some slamming in over 20knots of wind. But a very fast and responsive boat.

If you like to go fast then it may be the boat for you.


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

You just replied to a 7 year old post!! :hammer


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

And besides the post is perhaps a bit misleading post. Once upon a time the Lancer may have been considered a fast design, and may have corrected out well in a couple ancient Transpac, (but then again so did Ticonderoga) but by any reasonable modern standard (with a US Sailing PHRF rating of 126-132 depending on the rig and region) these are not particularly fast 36 foot boats. (A reasonably modern 36 footer would rate down around 72 to 81 or so) 

While the original design weight of these boats was supposed to be 10,500 lbs and you often see this weight quoted, the later literature and PHRF measurement certificates indicate that the stock Lancer 36 weighed 12,400 lbs with the same 4,000 lbs of ballast listed for earlier versions. 

In its original form, the prototype Lancer 36 was designed as a masthead rig. When it first hit production, it was offered with a fractional rig, but as far as I know very few of these fractionally rigged 36's were built. The design was altered back to a masthead rig with enorous headsails and a tiny mainsail. In masthead rig version, the Lancer 36's were optimized for reaching and running with huge spinnakers and also to do well under the rating system of that era, but are a slug upwind. These masthead rigged versions, when compared to other designs of that era or today, they were exceptionally hard boats to sail shorthanded. 

Lancer 36's also had one of the strangest interior layouts that I have ever encountered on a boat this size. While there may actually be a logic to this design for a couple living aboard at a marina in a cool climate, (or with AC added) for most folk I think it would be a difficult layout to live with. The ones I have been on also seemed poorly thrown together. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## SeaLifeSailing (Apr 24, 2010)

*Lancers are often underrated*

I know this is an old post to reply to, but these posts stay up indefinitely, and people continue to read them as a source of information.

As the past owner of many sailboats, crew on many others, ex-racer, dinghy, catamaran & 49er sailor, and current Lancer 36 owner, I'd like to clear up some misconceptions about these boats.

First of all, they are well-built, or the majority of them were. The marine surveyor who checked mine out at the time of purchase has been in the business for over 30 years. He lived near the Lancer factory, and has surveyed several dozen of these boats. He regularly surveys boats worth hundreds of thousands, and not infrequently, millions of dollars. He assured me that most Lancers are very well built, and that mine was a well-above average example in terms of its current condition. He winked and congratulated my on my judicious purchase - a bargain.

As a case in point, my boat was moored at Semiahmoo Marina in the spring storm of 2006 that decimated Vancouver's Stanley park, with windspeeds exceeding 90 mph. Several boats in my marina had their hulls stove in - serious, BIG holes in the beam that I could literally have crawled through. My boat (I hadn't bought it yet) had its 135% Genoa unfurl and power up. The rocking action (waves on the beam) had kicked the fenders up onto the dock, and decent sized waves bashed the hull against the dock's wooden rub rail and a heavy horn cleat on the edge of the dock. Meanwhile, the Genoa heeled the boat against the dock even harder, until the sail finally shredded. Total damage? 1 headsail written off, minor cosmetic scratching to gelcoat - ZERO structural damage.

Upon telling the marine surveyor this story, he highlighted that when he goes to survey hurricane damage for insurance companies, he almost never sees boats of this vintage on the scrap-heap. It's almost exclusively new, high-performance, modern construction boats that are holed in these storms. Make your own conclusions. The surveyor informed me that when Dick Valdez (Lancer's founder, previous founder of Columbia Yachts; a Plastics Engineer) sold Lancer to Bally, a NYSE, publicly traded company, they started a separate production facility that knocked out inexpensive small motor-sailors - McGregor competitors that didn't employ a lot of hand-laid roving, but did employ a lot of gun-blown chopped strand. These boats had a tendency to separate at the hull-deck joint under heavy loads, such as heavy air races. Different company, different boat, different production line and methods.

But the upshot was this: Lancer's name was absolutely destroyed. The boating community at large reviled the brand, and this is reflected to this day across the brand lineup's resale value.

My Lancer 36' is similar in build quality to its contemporary C&C or Catalina. There are some things I like better about either of these boats, and things I like better about the Lancer. It does indeed sail just fine to windward, contrary to popular belief. Tracks like an arrow, in fact, with very little leeway. That 4000 lb keel is also 6'2 feet underwater. This makes for a very stiff boat - if it had a foot less depth, for instance, it would take a lot more weight to give it as much stiffness, or righting moment. I often sail with more canvas up than newer cruising yachts, with a similar amount of heel and a lot more speed.

I've spent time in high winds on a friend's 44' C&C; a 6x Vic-Maui veteran, and class winner.

My boat performs much like a 36 foot version of his much larger vessel. Stiff, fast, easy to sail, confidence inspiring. Contrary to popular mythology, this boat points high for its vintage and has a well-balanced rig. I regularly single-hand my boat in 35 knots or more of wind. I'm as confidant on board my Lancer as I've been on the best boats of this vintage; very. Yes, it has lively fore and aft movement in short, steep waves. But I also regularly exceed hull speed. I often see +8.5 kts without a spinnaker up and very little fanfare. I have frequently seen 7.5 kts close-hauled, while towing a hard dinghy. Does this sound like a slug? Not to me. Close-hauled, I can apply a small amount of friction to the wheel, and nip below to grab something while the boat tracks as straight as an arrow. The traveler is well out of the cockpit, ahead of the companionway hatch and dodger. I love this.

I just don't understand where all of the criticism of these boats comes from, to be honest. I suppose, of course, if one wants to justify spending double the money for a similar boat&#8230;

My guests come aboard and marvel at the spacious cabin and liberal use of high-quality teak. They instantly 'ooh and ahhh'. My fiancee loves the large head with shower and separate vanity, and walk-through access to the aft stateroom. I've had a family of 6 aboard (plus myself) on a multi-day trip with as much room for all as you'll find on any boat of this era and size - we were able to sit around the table and play board games in the evenings. I regularly take out 4 students for a week at a time, some of them experienced sailors and current boat owners -and you know what? They love the boat, and want one just like it.

Yes, the layout is unconventional - oh my! But it works&#8230; Are there things I would change? Of course - boats are an exercise in compromise, and for every 5 things you like, you'll find one or two you don't. But just because it's different, doesn't mean it's not functional.

Other notes: yes, it is a deck-stepped mast with a compression post. Deck integrity has to be there - any boat that leaks can wind up rotting out - this is important on every fibreglass boat out there. Don't buy a boat with soft decks unless you just absolutely love DIY projects. And make sure you pull out that compression post every 25 or 30 years or as needed to have it professionally acid etched and repainted to protect against corrosion.

Yes, these boats need to be maintained, just like all of them, and the rigging kept ship-shape. Is there a sailboat where you wouldn't want to do that? I saw a lot of keel-stepped boats dis-masted this year at the Southern Straits race - too much canvas for the conditions (operator error). Don't use more canvas than your rig can handle. Want to race in storms? Buy a storm trysail and a storm jib. Deploy them before you need to. Don't run under a full main and Spinnaker in 40+ knots of wind while the Barometer is plummetting and windspeed is increasing, and you'll blow past the entire fleet with your hankerchiefs up, while they blow out their sails and find the top section of the masts sticking through their decks. Get it? While you're at it, if you want to race in serious conditions, buy proper harnesses and jacklines, and use them. Put large stainless steel backings on your hard points. Close your hatches companionway washboards when the going gets rough so you won't be swamped if you broach or get pooped by a following wave breaking into your cockpit. Be safe and be smart.

But I digress. I brought aboard a friend who's all but stopped counting his global circumnavigations - he spent 9 years teaching offshore sailing while crossing the world's oceans with novice students aboard his custom-built, full-keeled boat. I commented that I wasn't sure my boat would be that great offshore. He didn't hesitate to reply that with the right preparation, he would sail my boat anywhere in the world; he's sailed from Vancouver, BC, to the North Sea via the Panama Canal in a boat nowhere near as capable or well-built. He reminded me not to listen to the opinions of boaters who haven't owned and seriously sailed the same boat. Hmmmm. Food for thought, indeed. No offence intended.

So in summary; of course it isn't a year 2000+ design. It has to be measured against its contemporaries to come up with a fair evaluation of the boat's capabilities. Well-maintained examples compare favorably with other brands currently valued at double the price or more. So if you are a value-seeker, and are willing to do a little of your own homework to dig up some facts, and take a very deep look at the vessel you are considering purchasing, you may just find that a Lancer gives you great value for your dollar, in a package that is safe, fun, and raises more than a few eyebrows as you gracefully slide past more expensive boats of the same vintage (oh - and high-volume modern cruising boats that I wouldn't take out in serious weather). I have yet to bump into a Lancer owner (of one of their bigger boats) who wasn't delighted with his or her vessel. Good sailing to all of you!


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## Bradhamlet (Nov 8, 2002)

*Lancer 36*

I really enjoyed your post. It was interesting to understand where the nagative coments come from, the two different manufacturing standers. I have owned Redemption,Lancer 36 for almost 10 years now and still love sailing this wonderful boat. Sure their are complants, but this boat really sails well in all kinds of conditions. I may never sail her to Hawaii but I know we could do it and may do it one year.
Brad 
s/v Redemption
Channel Islands California


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## COOL (Dec 1, 2009)

There seems to be a bit of misinformation involving the Lancer 36, starting with the Trans Pac and including construction qualities.
'Chutzpah' which won the Trans Pac overall in 1973 and 1975
was a custom boat designed and built by Bill Lee. Chutzpah was
one of the earliest ULDBs and weighed about 7500lbs and only
shares a small family resemblance to a Lancer 36 which was designed
by Lee based on Chutzpah but weighing substantially more and
carrying much more interior furniture. 
Still, the Lancer 36 is , for a Cruiser/Racer designed in the early '70s,
a fairly light boat that performs well under sail. Although the standard
rig was intended to be optimized for reaching and running, the boats 
have a very large keel and sail upwind just fine.
Lancer's less than stellar reputation stems from the fact that
most of their product line was made up of power/sailers and some
small trailerables, none of which sail well.
All of the Lancer 36s I've seen appear to well built, with decent
joinerwork below and gelcoat that still looks good after 30+ years
on deck.


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## JimmyG69 (Aug 12, 2016)

I am also the owner of a 36 foot Lancer hull #99 built Dec 81. It was bought new buy my father and passed down to me 7 years ago. I keep it in Blain, WA. I love the boat and would never even consider selling it. Just had a full survey done, and it passed with flying colors. It sails beautifully and is very fast. 7.6 knots with 15 degrees of heel, into the wind. No weather helm. Can take my hands off the wheel and it tracks straight as an arrow. Everything in the previous post is bang on. Great boat, Love it, and would buy another one without hesitation !


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## Crystal (Jul 27, 2017)

We own Brown Sugar, a Lancer 36 hull #21 built in 79' We bought it in 2013, The survey stated "Excellent condition, shows pride of ownership" And from Stockton CA, in 2014 we took it to Cabo San Lucas and back with many fun stops on the way there and made it back in 13 days with one lay day for alternator repair (Turtle Bay, Baja MX). ON the way their we were caught in the tail of Hurricane Vance and as we were "uncomfortable" all night in a pitch black sky, large sea's and us having our first major storm experience, the boat handled without any issues, on auto pilot and No damage to her.
Easily sailed short handed or single. There are a lot of quality boats out there and Bill Lee with Bruce King designed a good one with the Lancer 36.

Any boat should be regularly exercised and kept up on maintenance.

Sailboats are safe in the harbor, but that's not what their made for.


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## asilva (Dec 12, 2017)

I own Lancer 36 Hull #127. We ordered the boat from Dick Valdez sitting in his office in Orange County in 1981 and took delivery in March, 1982. I have owned the boat ever since. The boat has been in San Francisco Bay since delivery and sailed in all types of conditions in this typically windy venue. I am a big fan of regular maintenance and the boat has been superb. We have replaced and upgraded equipment as we go but that is what you do as a long term owner. The Lancer build quality was overall pretty high - excellent gelcoat finish, good rigging and mechanics overall. The boat is a dream to sail and is comfortable for a family of 4 to stay aboard for a long weekend or more. It is a light boat for the SF Bay conditions but has never failed us and goes downwind like a Porsche - fast and tight. I have never raced my boat so the rating game doesn't interest me. I agree that it is an old design but nevertheless it has it's merits. BTW - the interior floor plan still gets rave reviews from my Guests, many of whom have newer and larger boats that still can't match the space down below on this model. It would be tough to find one that is still in good condition but if you do give it some serious consideration, especially for the money. They did get a bad rap in those years after Lancer Yachts failed but mostly that was based on some of their larger Power/Sail models, those boats didn't sail well at all and performed marginally under power to boot. The 36, using the old Chutzpah hull mold, was really their best sailboat in the line.


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## Scubist (Nov 5, 2019)

*Re: Lancers are often underrated*

I have owned a 1981 Lancer 36 for nine years now and have grown to love the boat. I sail her more than anyone else I know in our large marina - all seasons and (nearly) all weathers. The negative comments above sound like they belong to a totally different boat. Mine is built well, surveys well, points well and simply out-sails much larger sailboats again and again. Apart from all of that she is darn pretty to look at! Another Jeff.


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