# Why I like going outside



## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Doing the ICW south of Beaufort, NC leaves the singlehander very few opportunities to leave the helm while underweigh. It makes for a long tiring day and doesn't get you very far, very fast (relatively speaking). After adding up the figures, it took me 6 days to go 240 nm inside, Morehead City to Charleston, and only two days (overnight) to go 195, Charleston to Jacksonville. And had the last half of the second day been going downriver on the St Johns against tide and current, I could easily have topped 220.

If the weather is against you, or there's places or things you want to see, it's nice to have the ICW, but give me open water any day.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Never done the ICW, and, Neptune willing, will I ever have to. I'm sure there are some interesting places to "pull in", but it sounds fairly unappealing to me compared to the open sea.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I agree.. somewhat. I've only done about 50 miles of the ICW, but have done most of the other "inside," the inside passage. I found I could cover about 90 miles a day inside (dangerous to run after dark) but about 130 miles typically for a good day offshore. Here are my feelings from this summer:

Offshore ; Inshore

24 Hr watch cycle ; 18 hour watch
120-130 miles ; 70-90 miles
Seasickness ; Smooth water
Collisions at sea ; collisions with rocks, logs, traffic
Mostly sailing ; Mostly Power
Cooking sucks ; BBQ, fridge (more DC power from engine)
Wear on sails & rig ; Hours on Engine
No help ;  Passing mariners, coast guard
SSB/ham/sail mail ; Cell Phone & internet!!!
Everything is gray ; Pretty pictures, stops
EPIRB ; 911 
provisioning ; grocery store

Incidentally, after sailing 1200 miles offshore and not getting seasick once, after 1000 miles inside the last 200 miles offshore made me sicker than I have ever been. I think next time I will go offshore all the way.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

The thing with the ICW this time of year is the amount of daylight. 11 hours tops, and you have to plan your anchorage, so that's a constraint as well. I talked with a number of people along the way who would prefer to go offshore, but didn't want to run at night (couples). I'm fortunate in that I can catnap and stay alert. Plus, I always try to plan my naps so I'm in the least likely area of shipping. (of course, it helps to have a reliable autopilot)


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Sailboy...the land of the midnight sun give you a few more daylight hours than the rest of us. My one day tops on the East Coast ICW is 85 miles. 

Beez...sounds like you made it to FL in good shape...congrats!


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Got ya beat there cam, 86.1 nm, Coinjock to Hospital Point. And that included a forty minute wait at Great Bridge for the lock!

The worst thing, to me, about the ICW is that you either have to push like crazy, or just accept short days and distances, to find a decent anchorage. Course, if you've got the money, ya just stay in marinas (anybody want to share a winning powerball ticket?).


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Huh??Coinjock to hospital point is 50 statute miles!!?? Maybe Manteo to Hospital point?? That is about 85.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Oops, looked at the wrong day, was supposed to be from Oriental to the Alligator River.


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## NautiG (Apr 23, 2007)

*Thanksgiving on the ICW*

I'm spending a few days in Kitty Hawk, just off the icw. I'll let you know if this is a worthwhile side trip. I don't know if you could do it in a monohull, anyway. I'm in a cat with centerboards and 18" minimum draft.

This is the first time I've gone down the icw, and I am enjoying myself immensely. Sailing the Chesapeake was fun, but by the time I hit Norfolk, I was ready to hit the ditch.

Scott
nautib.blogspot.com


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Cam's just over in Manteo. If you stay inside past Beaufort, NC, at mile 237 there are two temp red bouys and one green. Ignore Green 61A marker (though with your draft you might not have a problem).


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Nauti-G...we have FREE overnite docks here in Manteo and there's a gale coming...so if you need a place to duck in...come on by...7ft in the channel and dockside minimum. I stand by on 16 & will help direct you in and tie up if you need me. Directions are easy...head as if to Kitty Hawk and then go in the channel towards the Bonner Bridge...take a sweeping turn to starboard around Green Can 29A (shoaling extends beyond the can) and head down the shallowbag bay channel to marker #10 where you will take a sharp turn to the north and see the docks and marina. You can tie up anywhere on the gazebo dock OR any of the boardalk dock on the south side of the Gazebo...official limit is 1 day but no one gets kicked out if bad weather is coming. From Manteo you can continue down the Pamlico sound and then hook back in to the Neuse River and the ICW or make a side stop at beautiful Ocracoke island.
Happy T-day.


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## NautiG (Apr 23, 2007)

Thanks, John. I'm going to have to stay on the icw. Busted one of my rudders. Long story. Good thing I have two. So, I'm going to be limping down the icw. 

The beach this morning was great. 75 degrees and sunny.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!
Scott
Gemini Catamaran Split Decision
nautib.blogspot.com


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## NautiG (Apr 23, 2007)

Cam, just saw your post. Thanks for the info. Maybe I'll head down that way in a few days. I'm going to sit tight here for the time being. I'm in a pretty good spot to hide from the wind and the waves. 

Happy Thanksgiving,
Scott
Gemini Catamaran Split Decision
nautib.blogspot.com


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Scott-

What'd you hit??


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## NautiG (Apr 23, 2007)

SailingDog, I hit an s-load of weather crossing the mouth of Mobjack bay. I can't say that I wasn't warned about being on the lower Chesapeake in November. It was like nothing I've seen before. 

If you want the full report, you should check out my blog: nautib.blogspot.com It has pictures of the rudder, and a description of the incident. In fairness, the boat is old, but some of the construction is pretty shoddy. I hope Performance Cruising isn't still building Geminis the way they used to.

Scott
Gemini Catamaran Split Decision
nautib.blogspot.com


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Why PB likes to go outside??

because everytime he does it inside...the stinch in the house kills everyone....get real


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I did read your blog about it... but it doesn't really say how or why the rudder broke. Given that the boat was bought at a fire-sale price and hadn't been properly maintained from the sounds of it... I think it isn't all that fair to be blaming the manufacturer... BTW, what year is the boat??

From your blog:



> When I inspected the boat, I knew immediately why it hadn't sold. *It hadn't even left the dock in at least five years. The steering was frozen, and who knew whether the engine would run. *The owner wouldn't let me try to start it. The headliner inside was falling down, and the interior was decorated like your grandma's house. Nonetheless, it was a Gemini, and had good bones. _I knew there wasn't anything on the boat that I am not capable of dealing with, or learning how to deal with. I made the owner an offer with a further reduction to the unheard of price. I told her that I would pay cash for the boat, "as is, where is", without a professional inspection or demand that anything be fixed._ I think she had just reached a level of frustration with trying to sell the boat, and she immediately accepted the offer.


Performance Cruising is building their boats to a specific price point, and build a pretty decent boat given those limitations. It isn't going to have the same build quality as a Gunboat, Lagoon, or Pajot...but it isn't going to have the same astronomical price associated with it either.


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## NautiG (Apr 23, 2007)

Did you read the post titled, "The Boat had a Rough Day?" It gives as full a description as I think is possible.

I love the boat, and got it for a song. I'm just saying that some things could be manufactured a little stronger. I think everyone will agree that steering is a pretty important system. The housing for the steering dagger boards is pretty weak fiberglass. I called Performance Cruising on the off chance that they would have a replacement they could send me. The boat is 25 years old. It's the 18th one made. The design has changed substantially, although you can definitely tell that my boat and the current model share a lot of characteristics and are closely related. 

The woman at Performance Cruising whom I spoke to on the phone told me that they switched to steel housings soon after my boat was built. I hope for the sake of other Gemini owners that this is true. People have crossed the ocean in a Gemini. I wouldn't do it. I'd want to have a nice, big monohull with a nice, big keel, if I were crazy enough to cross an ocean. That said, it's a great boat for motoring down the icw. It's nearly impossible to run aground. And I can go places where none of the rest of you can.

Scott
Gemini Catamaran Split Decision
nautib.blogspot.com


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Generally, the first year's production of anything is kind of working out the bugs... that's true of the Telstar as well. My boat has some changes made to it that previous ones didn't have and the ones being produced today are different from the one I have. That said, a boat that's been neglected for at least five years probably has a lot more wrong with it due to the neglect that would otherwise be the case... 

I don't doubt that PCI switched the design as soon as they found it wasn't up to handling the loads... Several of the smaller design changes, that don't involve changes to the hull mold on the Telstar have been sent out to owners of earlier boats as retrofits. 

It wouldn't surprise me if the steering failed on a 25 year old boat. Just ask Zanshin, who bought a boat out of charter that is considerably newer than that... and had lost his rudder unexpectedly from what looked like a galvanic corrosion issue. Even Giu's 42' custom sailboat is having some issues with the rudder on it... and it's only a bit over a year old—and cost considerably more than a Gemini does. 

You probably spoke to Sue, who handles the Gemini line.

As for going places where the rest of us can't... I only draw 15" with the board up...and can go a few places you can't since I can drop the beam of my boat down to 8.5'.


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## NautiG (Apr 23, 2007)

SD, with our non-existent drafts, you and I will have to party up s--- creek sometime. I've been up there without a paddle.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

LOL... I just hope the wind is blowing the right way... short tacking up S--- Creek is no fun.


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## my1972ih (Apr 2, 2000)

what about going north in February?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

If you don't mind the storms and the cold it can be invigorating!


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