# Danger...alert To All Sailing In Southern Europe



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Guys...here is an *ALERT TO ALL VESSELS SAILING IN EUROPE IN PORTUGAL, SPAIN, FRANCE ETC. (this is not a joke)*.

For a number of years, we have had hundreds of foreign vessels run aground while trying to enter Marinas in Portugal at night, with loss of life on many cases. We used to think that there was something wrong with the "outsiders", and the way they navigate at night.

Then last week on a trip to St. John, as the ferry boat that approached the pier, I saw that *as you enter the harbour*, the *GREEN LIGHT *is on the left side (port), and the *RED LIGHT *is on the Right side.

Well over here is exactly the opposite. As yoiu enter our marinas, the *GREEN LIGHT* is to the right, Stbd, and the *RED LIGHT* is to the left Port.

I have included a few views of some marina entrances in Portugal, Spain and France, and if you zoom on the marina entrance you can see what I mean.

I checked TB's marina, and the red light is on the right, the green on the left.
Here bellow are some aerial photos, please have a look.

VILAMOURA
CASCAIS
ALMERIMAR SPAIN
FRANCE

Please pass this message to all you know comming this way. Thank you.

Giulietta.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Red right returning, is the norm over in the States. So Giu, how are navigation lights arranged on your boat? We have red on the portside and green on the starboard. 

One way I remembered which is which years ago, is to associate red/port to Port wine, which as you well enough know, has a red color.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

TB,

Our nav lights are just like yours RED/PORT, GREEN/STBD.










Just like our marina entrances.

When you sail a channel where do you pass in relation to the red bouy?
We allways leave the RED buoy on port when entering and on Stbd when leaving.

(Be carefull there is white Port also)


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

"In 1979, a body called International Association of Lighthouse Authorities (IALA) was formed to unify the World's buoyage system. They were largely successful, except we now have two similar systems, IALA 'A' and IALA 'B'. 

The areas that use the 'B' system, are North and South America, Japan and the Philippines. The remainder of the World uses the 'A' system." 

The 'A' system uses the rule "Green Right Returning." The 'B' system uses the rule; "Red Right Returning."

The Port and Starboard running lights are the same throughout the world.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

eherlihy said:


> "In 1979, a body called International Association of Lighthouse Authorities (IALA) was formed to unify the World's buoyage system. They were largely successful, except we now have two similar systems, IALA 'A' and IALA 'B'.
> 
> The areas that use the 'B' system, are North and South America, Japan and the Philippines. The remainder of the World uses the 'A' system."
> 
> ...


Than ks for the clarification.

On another note:

Please, everyone, lets keep the thread "jokeless", OK?? We may avoid accidents, who knows.

G


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

I always new you guys were backwards.

_Sorry NO JOKES!_


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> Than ks for the clarification.
> 
> On another note:
> 
> ...


Actually that's good info Gui. I knew that the US was arse about but didn't know that it extended to SAm , Japan and the Phillipines.

To complete the picture what is the story with Canada ? (Forget that, last time I checked Canada did come under the heading of North America. I think I'm having a blonde day.)


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## tigerregis (Nov 24, 2006)

Sorry buoys, this is in lesson one in any Power Squadron class.


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## Kacper (Oct 24, 2006)

In Canada it's Red Right Returning 

However, to clarify that... It's not actually "Red Right Returning"

It's actually "Red Right, in the Direction of the Flood Tide"


If the marina entrance happens to be opposite to the flood tide direction, and you are headed towards it, then you would keep the red light/buoy on your left.


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## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

Giu, We get warned about crossing the Atlantic to check the A/B rule when approaching land fall (in the Carribean for example). It's particularly dangerous when only one bouy is visible/deployed. With a red / green pair, it is more obvious that the channel is between them, even if they are the "wrong" way round, but with just one (red say), one needs to be prepared. It is the same for those North American yachts making land fall in Portugal. Luckily, the cardinals are not reversed too.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Kacper said:


> In Canada it's Red Right Returning
> 
> However, to clarify that... It's not actually "Red Right Returning"
> 
> ...


Yes, but you have to consult a chart regardless. Some ports with two entrances (such as my home port, Toronto) have a "returning" and a "departing" aspect that is not necessarily intuitive to the non-locals.

I would imagine the approaches to New York are similar, if not even more complex. "In" or "out" depends on more than proximity to the city itself.

We otherwise have the same system of buoyage as America.

The System B thing I recall from Power Squadrom as "red right returning reversed". Easy in English!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Kind of like the world's problem with driving cars... some drive on the right, like the US, and others on the left...like the UK.

*You really need to check the charts to see whether the port you're entering is under IALA-A or IALA-B...and keep it in mind when entering the channel. *


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The real question is, "Why are there two directly opposite rules?". In that international rules require red port and green starboard running lights, you would think that the navigation rules should be the same worldwide. Another example of bureaucratic nonsense!


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## gc1111 (May 13, 2004)

DON'T ASSUME THAT YOU SHOULD GO BETWEEN A RED-GREEN PAIR. I know of a bay in Maine whose entrance has a red-green pair that is oddly reversed. The reason is that there is a rock ledge extending between them! You enter around the ends.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

gc1111 said:


> DON'T ASSUME THAT YOU SHOULD GO BETWEEN A RED-GREEN PAIR. I know of a bay in Maine whose entrance has a red-green pair that is oddly reversed. The reason is that there is a rock ledge extending between them! You enter around the ends.


That is completely counter-intuitive in both A and B systems. There should be warning buoys at either end of the ledge and a fairway buoy downrange of the "safe" channel.

Good grief. Must be a boatyard nearby doing keel repairs at top dollar.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

GC1111-

Those red and green buoys you're thinking of probably belong to two different chains of buoys... there are a few like that around Cape Ann, here in Massachusetts. Unless you know that the red and green buoys are a pair...from the same chain of buoys marking a channel... don't pass between them.


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## gc1111 (May 13, 2004)

Get a chart. Look at the entrance to Linekin Bay. It is near BoothBay Harbor. It is simply a ledge in the middle of the entrance to a bay. How else are you going to mark it? The Coast Guard has to assume a minimal level of intelligence and knowledge from boaters. There are no other buoys anywhere near. It is safe to round either end of the ledge. Yet a minimally competent boater that automatically thinks you have to go between two different colored buoys and never looks at a chart will have a problem. (This describes many local motorboaters here on the south shore of Long Island. Fortunately the bottoms around here are mud and sand.)


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

GC is correct about Linekin Bay. The area between the Bouys is marked Spruce Point Ledges. As you approach from the sea, there is a Red Bouy, #2, to the LEFT, the Ledge (which is rocky), and a Green Bouy, #1 to the RIGHT. There is about 1000 feet between the two bouys.

About 1/2 a mile further up the bay there is a Red #2 on the right, and a Green #3 bouy on the left.

On approach IF you remember to keep the Red on your Right when Returning, you'll go up the left fork of the channel and be OK. But, YOU GOTTA HAVE A CHART! 

Ed


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes, but having checked the chart... the two buoys in question are from different buoy channel chains... not a pair.

It can't be helped if GC1111 is making assumptions about the two buoys, based on their physical proximity, that are clearly wrong. They are not a pair that is oddly reversed as he claims above. The GC"1" buoy that is on the right is part of the Linekin Bay channel buoys, and the next buoy in that series, RN"2", is just off of Tibbits Ledge, almost 1 NM into Linekin Bay.

I don't see any reason the red buoy on the left of the Spruce Pt. Ledges should be marked RN"2", as it doesn't fit with any of the other channel marking buoys in the area. It isn't part of the Boothbay Harbor channel, which extends to the south-southwest of it. Nor is it part of the series marking Fisherman's Passage to the southeast. As far as I can tell, it is a solitary red can buoy...that really should be marked differently. It does mark the safe passage of the western side of Spruce Pt. Ledges though... so it is appropriate that it is a red buoy.

*In any case, you shouldn't pass between a red and green buoy pair, when heading into a harbor, when the RED buoy is on the left... It is, after all in the US, RED RIGHT RETURNING. *


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

Sailingdog - I seem to remember from my recent ASA courses or maybe the UK ones that the Red-Right-Returning applied to the USA with the exception of the intracoastal waterway, which uses some other system which I didn't bother to memorize at the time since I didn't expect to take it in the near future.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The ICW is marked separately from the lateral buoyage system and uses yellow markers IIRC.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

SD...RE: ICW....Well...they use RED triangular daymarks and Green square daymarks on the ICW and then they stick a square of YELLOW reflective tape on those to confirm that you are looking at an ICW marker and not some other channel marker. In general...the ICW is RED/Right heading south but there are several areas where this switches when it would otherwise conflict with incoming markers from seaward inlets. (Like around Hilton Head).


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I haven't been on the ICW... and knew yellow was there somewhere..  Thanks for the clarification


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## magnusmurphy (Jul 7, 2000)

As far as I remembered the order of rules were: (System B)

1) Returning to port
2) With the Flood tide
3) Clockwise around North America

So, if not going into harbour or port and if there's no discernable tide, the third applies to decide which light should go where. Above definitely works for Canada in most circumstances. So, 1 trumps 2 which trumps 3.

Magnus Murphy


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Sounds like Darwinian theory playing itself out, although I don't much hold with Darwin. I wouldn't recommend anyone to go on to soundings without an adequate chart and a working knowledge of the local system of buoyage.


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## AtlanticBryan (Jun 27, 2001)

A friend of mine passed between a red/green pair a couple of years ago without thinking of which side the colours were on. The buoys marked a rock in the centre. Luckily, he only lost his prop (and a little dignity).


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

He wasn't in Maine, oh, say near Linekin Bay... or down in Massachusetts, up by Cape Ann...


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

*"The buoys marked a rock in the centre."

Sometimes what you think is a buoy is simply bottom paint on a rock! 
*


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Alright, get your charts out. Try approaching Sturgeon Bay from Green Bay on Lake Mighigan. You must follow the channel markers leaving green to your starboard side.

I know the reason, but to the uninitiated it can seem pretty backwards.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

T-
Because the channel runs from the Lake Side into the Bay, correct?
When going from the Bay into the Channel you are actually moving Upbound.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

American Practical Navigator.... should have the hard copy onboard .... good reference.

http://www.irbs.com/bowditch/pdf/chapt05.pdf (Page 10)

... George.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

sailortjk1 said:


> T-
> Because the channel runs from the Lake Side into the Bay, correct?
> When going from the Bay into the Channel you are actually moving Upbound.


You're right, but from the bay side it is a little counter intuitive since you are coming into a harbor, that was there long before they dug the canal.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Read your Sailing Directions for Europe. That will tell you that you are in IALA Region A and that it is Green to starboard when entering port. The shape of the bouys are the same though. Nun to starboard and Can to port on entering. 
IALA Region B (What North & South Americans are use too) Comprises of North and South America, Korea, Japan and the Philipines.
IALA Region A Is all other countries. 
The only real difference is that the color is reversed between the two regions but the bouys are the same. But in Region A you may see more Cardinal Bouys. So be aware of how to pass them also.

When going to New places please use the Sailing Directions or the Coast Pilots. Both are about the same thing but one (Coast Pilot) is for USA and its posessions and Sailing Directions are for every place else. And you have assorted volumes of each to peruse and learn from.
Have Fun in your travels


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