# Sailboat Insurance



## PTPierce (Dec 26, 2005)

I am a new boat owner. Can I get some opinions as to what type insurance coverage I should get? Our boat is 30 years old with a surveyed value of $31,000. Some companies I''ve called won''t even insure a boat that old. What kinds of coverage do most folks get?


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## jack_patricia (May 20, 2001)

PT, you have three basic choices: go uninsured, obtain liability insurance (to protect you against claims resulting from damage to others for which you are found responsible; premium is usually very inexpensive), and hull insurance (which protects you against loss re: your own boat, subject to a deductible).

Given the nature of our society today (I''m assuming you are located in N America), I would recommend liability insurance at the minimum; you don''t want to lose your house or financial assets because you happen to own a boat and something bad happened.

WRT hull insurance, the older and smaller the boat, the more potential risk and lesser potential profit, which is why you may be finding resistance by some carriers to provide coverage. (But when soliciting quotes, be sure to distinguish between the two if you are willing to consider liability coverage only). And then of course there''s the decision whether you want to acquire coverage thru a carrier directly (e.g. MetLife) or thru a broker, who will add a bit of cost but potentially offer some customer service and handholding, as well.

I would recommend soliciting quotes from the following:
1. A ''value'' carrier, someone with a very high financial rating and perceived excellent customer service. Two examples are USAA (if you qualify; excellent rates, excellent coverage) and MetLife (I say this because of their rep + their customer service in the home/car arena; I don''t know if they offer boat insurance but hopefully they illustrate the point)
2. Boating associations/organizations: the obvious one is Boat/U.S. but you may find you are elibible for ''group'' coverage at better rates from other sources as well (e.g. via a YC or SA membership). Association membership will typically guarantee access to coverage at some level and cost.
3. A reputable broker. I''d consult a broker because they may represent the widest choice of policies among all these sources, and because as a new boat owner you might truly benefit by their (somewhat unbiased) expertise. IMIS in Maryland has received constant praise from boat owners for many years now and would be my first call (in part because he''s my broker <g>). They really are top-notch WRT how they help with dealing with a claim, really the only thing you ''get'' for your premium. www.imiscorp.net/services.htm

I recommend seeking quotes from all three sources, not just one or two. Good luck & good hunting!

Jack


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## PTPierce (Dec 26, 2005)

Thanks, Whoosh! Great info. MetLife and USAA were also recommended by friends so I''ll call them today. We are just down the road from you, in Virginia Beach. We paid $26K cash for our good old boat so I don''t want to lose it all in a fire or hurricane, hence the confusion on my part about what to get. The marina we want to move to requires $300K in liability. The more I think about it the more it all sounds like good old car insurance. Thanks again!


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I don''t know for sure if BoatUS will ensure a boat that old, but I think that they do. I have had exceptionally good service from them and they have been quite competitive when priced against other companies. 

Jeff


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## gnrice (Jul 5, 2000)

I second Boat US. Great service for us with our 1978 Pearson 30. She''s old, but not 30 years old, yet. Not sure when Boat US will give us the heave ho, but hopefully not for a while!


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## Izabella01 (Jun 26, 2004)

first unless you are military or some version of that or your parents or spouse are you cannot get USAA. They do not insure boats over 20 yrs old. 
I own a 1973 Ericson. I ended up with Progressive. I got a policy that allows me to be ''legal'' for my marina. 

fyi.. whomever you get... stay with them. Boat insurance is getting harder and harder to get. My policy with NO claims went up from $160/yr to $201 this yr. I am in florida and did not go anywhere near hurricanes last yr. Never left the marina. 

progressive''s number is 
800-925-2886

you other alternative IF you wish to insure for complete coverage is to call one of the brokers listed in the major sailing mags and see if they can find you a full coverage policy...just be ready to provide a survey. 

Boat U.S. would have insured my boat with a survey. That was a minimum policy. 

good luck
Izabella


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

I have liability insurance on my "project" boat with Boat US. They did want a survey report, and they wanted to know my plans for addressing the surveyor''s recommendations, as well as my plans for securing the boat in my absences (the boat is in the water in MD, I live in NH). I send them a letter after each trip down to work on the boat, describing what I''ve accomplished. I haven''t gotten any feedback in response to these letters, but I haven''t gotten a cancellation notice, either.

Regards,

Tim


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## Snorky (Jan 29, 2006)

I got insurance for the following boat www.arrowvoice.com.au through Trident insurance in Sydney for only $1,500 Australian


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## Southpaw5 (Sep 6, 2018)

Insurance question: 

1985 31' Oday Sailboat - What is the recommendation for insurance in NY? Paid $17K for it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Find a good local broker and have them show you quotes from several companies. Cheapest is not always the best value. You want to understand coverages and claims experience.


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## gauchomexica (Mar 29, 2015)

The thing it took me a long time to understand is that hull insurance (liability or third party is much easier) for an old boat (more than 20 years), that is not very expensive (probably sub 200k) is getting harder and harder to get. Add to that any kind of "real" sailing (cruising), not being just a marina daysailor, and your chances of getting insurance at any decent prices goes out of the window real fast.

I have a 1985 Passport 40. Valued in 125k usd (agreed value per survey). I would claim Florida, Bahamas, Cuba, Mexico, Belize and eventually lay down in Rio Dulce for hurricane season. The only insurance I could find was for around 4k usd a year, which comes out to be much higher percetnage than what usually would be for insurance. This would not in most cases include any named storm coverage whatsoever (only one policy gave me named storm insurance in the Dulce). But this is a mix of a couple of things:

- value of the boat (and thus what that percentage of hull vale becomes the premium)
- age of the boat
- cruising grounds (or actual cruising and moving ports to begin with!)

And add to that Im not even a cruiser ... a commuter cruiser if anything. I wan to to move my sailboat around, and fly back home. I maybe cruise for a month and then lay down the boat somewhere for 3 months. I finally understood; if I want to insure my sailboat I have to pay that 3.5% insurance vs the 1.5/2% that I would read is the norm. That's apparently the risk that I imply from a combination of factors.

These brokers DID give me quotes in the 3.5% (actually ORM was my previous broker with a UK policy (CMS) that ended up not covering marine insurance this year anymore so I had to shop around!)

https://www.hanhaminsurance.com
https://gowrie.com
https://offshorerisk.com

I think part of the problem is that brokers (any of them), and underwriters are not really clear. They many times give you "excuses". Your boat is too old being a common one. The truth is that while there is truth to that, it's the combo that kills you. Because NOVAMAR told me no, but that's because their usual underwriter covers Mexico and 60k 1980s boats, but they wont go ay further south than Mexico (and I think their underwriter only covers west coast!). And hence, you get the "boat too old" bucket answer. But hey, you cover a friend with a 1985 Tayana 37 in Vallarta! Same insurance company! Yeah, but that Tayana fits their "box", and it's cruising grounds are just those.

My point is the insurance brokers I gave you above, do deal with underwriters willing to go outside certain "box" thinking. But it's going to cost you more, sometimes double, to what other "less risky"-prone propositions cost. You are going to pay 3-4% for hull insurance if you want to cruise your boat ... your way.

Fortuntaly I reflagged in the UK this year, since I don't even live in the US, or have any kind of residence there (except maybe my boat, in a weird way), being Italian and having a residence (though I can't say I have a permanent residence anywhere at this time of my life, since I live between 3 countries!) in Spain, I ended up opting for European options for insurance.

Paentanius (europe, not us!) was great. They look to have a good programme, and they were competitive with the options the american out of the box brokers gave me (I think it was 3.9k usd yearly). The advtange with Panta became obvious once I read the fine print. Basically, ALL the Caribbean. No exceptions, no fine print to delve through. Just go sailing! I really liked their coverage and understanding that some sailors just don't really have such a set plan of destinations. No named storm coverage WHATSOEVER.

But I ended up going with Y Yacht Insurance. They were considerably less expensive, being a more "commercial" insurance, sort of the equivalent to BoatUS in popularity in the UK, but at first would ONLY gave me coverage in the eastern caribbean. And I would have to be outside the box (on the hard in T&T or in the water in Bonaire, or north of 30 something) by hurricane season for named storm coverage. 
It's hard for them to think outside their own boxes of "what they know". After insisting a few times, they re sent me an agreement that if I sailed outside the "known to them" eastern carib, I would have to pay much higher deductibles for thefth. That's whay they were worried about. Thefth. So they imposed a quite bit high deductible for hull on thefth, as well as making my dinghy and my raft ... uninsured sort of for thefth. This only applies to western carib. Hopnestly with what Im saving in premiums, I can pay for a new dinghy in 2 years. It's that big of a difference. I don't plan to get my dinghy stolen, or my raft or my boat. I know, it sometimes happens. But I don't see it as a big a threat as those underwriters do. Regarding named storm coverage ... they want me to be in a "for all intents and purposes" hurricane free zone for hurricane season. Im willing to take my chances in the Dulce. They won't cover me there. But chances of getting hit by a named storm there are just ... too low.

So, that's the tricky part of all of this. The insurance game has changed, not only because of storms. But there's a lot of older and "cheaper" boats out there and people cruising them. Insurers are looking for more money out of your pocket to pay for a higher risk. That's just the way it is.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Southpaw5 said:


> Insurance question:
> 
> 1985 31' Oday Sailboat - What is the recommendation for insurance in NY? Paid $17K for it.


As a minimum, get liability coverage. Hull coverage (like collision on a car) will depend on if you can afford the loss of the boat. As a point of reference, my 1985 33 foot Cal is insured for $30k and I pay $770 per year for full coverage with coastal limits.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Shiva is going on 34 and has had the hull insured since 85. Obviously the insured value has gone done as she ages. It's not set at $55K or there abouts. The deductible is pretty high so aside from serious damage or complete loss I get to pay the deductible.

I am considering keeping ONLY liability and dropping the rest. My annual premium is north of $1,100 / yr.

Comments and suggestions please.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Boat/US changed their insurance carrier from CNA to Geico last year (Boat/US a BROKER). I was planning to move my boat to Florida last year (and this... but that should be another thread) and Florida was outside of their coverage area. I contacted a local broker and they sold me a policy that includes hull protection with Geico. I was NOT required to have the boat surveyed either, as this was a sticking point for me. If an insurer wants to look at, or hire a surveyor (on their dime) to look at my boat I am fine with that, but I am not paying a surveyor to look at my boat so that I can buy insurance. 

I have had no claims in 9 years of boat ownership. I am paying ~$900/year for $34K hull, $500K liability, $939K fuel spill, and $500K uninsured boater with no deductible on an '87 O'day 35. Coverage area is the entire US & Canada.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Look carefully at hazard waste/oil spill coverage language. If you sink or tanks fail and you spill petroleum waste into surrounding waters your exposure is potentially huge. Well beyond a moderate personal injury claim or any agreed value. 
Increasingly due to climate change events availability of vendors in this market has decreased and expense has increased. This is most unfortunate. Due to increased claims by US citizens global companies have withdrawn or created spin offs to deal with Americans.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

outbound said:


> Look carefully at hazard waste/oil spill coverage language. If you sink or tanks fail and you spill petroleum waste into surrounding waters your exposure is potentially huge. Well beyond a moderate personal injury claim or any agreed value.
> Increasingly due to climate change events availability of vendors in this market has decreased and expense has increased. This is most unfortunate. Due to increased claims by US citizens global companies have withdrawn or created spin offs to deal with Americans.


Presumably your fuel and oil spills are contained inside your hull. Sure fueling up if not careful you can get an ounce or two of fuel finding its way to the water. When I fuel up... I try NOT to top it up filling the fuel fill hose... and have paper towels at ready if any fuel bubbles up along with a bucket of soapy water to break up the small slick of fuel which may appear on the water.

It is conceivable for oil in the engine bilge to be pumped overboard. However I keep and oil absorbent pad under the engine at all times... so even some spills in doing an oil change don't make it to the bilge pump.

A serious spill would have to be a breached jerry can on deck... on there offshore... or a serious collision breaking the fuel tank. Then the boat would likely sink.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

eherlihy said:


> ..... (and this... but that should be another thread).....


Did you start one? You're supposed to be underway!


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

S please note I said “if you sink or tanks fail.....”.


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