# Advice for Trans Atlantic Crossings



## Halcyon1 (Oct 29, 2012)

Here are my top 5 tips for anyone crossing the Atlantic this year:

Top 5 Tips for crossing the Atlantic - International Yacht Delivery | Halcyon Yachts

Does anyone else have any pearls of wisdom to add for any first timers out there?

Pete


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Excellent top 5 tips. Thanks for sharing. Totally agree. 

1. Keep sail plan simple is a must especially at nite, even it means it will go slower. When wind picks at night, darkness and stiff wind will make everything 10 times harder. It sucks when you need to wake up everyone to help you on deck. Plan for long haul and well rested body and mind. No need to break the world records. 

2. I found spending a day to prepare the fancy gourmet meals before departure is easier. I vacuum pack the food and keep it frozen. Even without refrigeration, the food will last 5 to 10 days. Often I precook the pasta for shortening meal preparation. For example, linguine with white clam sauce will take less than 15 min with actual galley is less than 5 mins. Less chance to get sick. 

I am looking forward to sailing from Tenerife to St. Martin in early Jan 2015. It will my first for this leg.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

rockDAWG said:


> Excellent top 5 tips. Thanks for sharing. Totally agree.
> For example, linguine with white clam sauce will take less than 15 min with actual galley is less than 5 mins. Less chance to get sick.


If you have a proclivity for getting seasick, you'd better NOT embark on an ocean voyage that could last 20 days or more! THAT'S JUST MADNESS.
The 'get out of trouble free card' may work fairly well between the states and the Caribbean or Hawaii, but the long haul west bound transAt is not in an area frequented by merchant vessels, nor within easy range of the USCG.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

capta said:


> If you have a proclivity for getting seasick, you'd better NOT embark on an ocean voyage that could last 20 days or more! THAT'S JUST MADNESS.
> The 'get out of trouble free card' may work fairly well between the states and the Caribbean or Hawaii, but the long haul west bound transAt is not in an area frequented by merchant vessels, nor within easy range of the USCG.


Well, if you haven't got seasick, you have not tried hard enough. Everyone will get seasick in the right conditions. No reason to tempt fates. Seasickness does not discriminate.

Stop trolling.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

If you are part of an organized rally or group do not get sucked into leaving with a bad forecast. 

The rally organizer may be under commercial pressures to stick to dates, YOU ARE NOT. 

Look hard at the weather charts and make your own decision. There are instances of groups leaving when any rational sailor with an ounce of weather sense would have stayed in port.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

rockDAWG said:


> Well, if you haven't got seasick, you have not tried hard enough. Everyone will get seasick in the right conditions. No reason to tempt fates. Seasickness does not discriminate.
> 
> Stop trolling.


That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Again, you know not of what you post! I know hundreds of mariners (and I'm NOT talking about fair weather sailors here) with more sea time individually than you could get in three lifetimes the way you are going, who have never been sea sick.
It isn't a matter of when or if; it just doesn't work that way.
Seasickness could be fatal on a voyage of 10 to 20 days, so in your own words, 'No reason to tempt fates.' I couldn't imagine doing any ocean voyage where I was afraid to go below because I might get seasick. If you have that problem, you'd better stick to day sailing and leave the offshore work to those who are comfortable below or on deck.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

TQA said:


> If you are part of an organized rally or group do not get sucked into leaving with a bad forecast.
> 
> The rally organizer may be under commercial pressures to stick to dates, YOU ARE NOT.
> 
> Look hard at the weather charts and make your own decision. There are instances of groups leaving when any rational sailor with an ounce of weather sense would have stayed in port.


Not sure if this was addressed to me or not. No, we don't belong to any Rally, we are like a free range chicken. Oh yeah, I don't buy the Rally's claim - safety in numbers.

But I do agree your assessment.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

capta said:


> If you have a proclivity for getting seasick, you'd better NOT embark on an ocean voyage that could last 20 days or more! THAT'S JUST MADNESS.


No, it's not madness. You just have to know yourself. I have a very strong proclivity for getting seasick. I can pretty much count on it every voyage. I get sick. I get over it. I go on. For me, it's not a big deal.

I realize that it is a very big deal for some people. There are those who are rendered completely incapable of any activity for days on end by it. Those folks should probably think twice about an ocean voyage. But most don't get it that bad. Most are over the symptoms within a couple of days.

A proclivity for getting seasick is definitely NOT a reason to avoid an ocean voyage, assuming that you are willing to deal with and manage the symptoms.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

capta said:


> That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Again, you know not of what you post! I know hundreds of mariners (and I'm NOT talking about fair weather sailors here) with more sea time individually than you could get in three lifetimes the way you are going, who have never been sea sick.
> It isn't a matter of when or if; it just doesn't work that way.
> Seasickness could be fatal on a voyage of 10 to 20 days, so in your own words, 'No reason to tempt fates.' I couldn't imagine doing any ocean voyage where I was afraid to go below because I might get seasick. If you have that problem, you'd better stick to day sailing and leave the offshore work to those who are comfortable below or on deck.


You upset with me, because you could not find any female companion to sail with you. You don't take my advise how to find one. This may tell you something. Loneliness sucks.

If you have some formal education and perhaps some courses in human physiology, you will understand the etiology of motion sickness.

My last response to you. I don't want this good relevant topic goes to hell like most of them.


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## clip68 (Jun 26, 2014)

Nothing says "I don't have anything to add" like name calling and dirt slinging. Thanks for keeping it classy around here guys.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

denverd0n said:


> No, it's not madness. You just have to know yourself. I have a very strong proclivity for getting seasick. I can pretty much count on it every voyage. I get sick. I get over it. I go on. For me, it's not a big deal.
> 
> I realize that it is a very big deal for some people. There are those who are rendered completely incapable of any activity for days on end by it. Those folks should probably think twice about an ocean voyage. But most don't get it that bad. Most are over the symptoms within a couple of days.
> 
> A proclivity for getting seasick is definitely NOT a reason to avoid an ocean voyage, assuming that you are willing to deal with and manage the symptoms.


You are absolutely correct, I misspoke. I should have said incapacitating seasickness, where you are afraid that going below will cause you to get sick. I have indeed sailed with many who get over it in a few days and it does not interfere with their sailing duties or matter if they are on deck or below once it has passed. To go to sea and be afraid that going below will cause one to get seasick is not prudent or reasonable.
However to say that someone hasn't gotten seasick because 'you have not tried hard enough", well, I'm quite sure you do not try to get seasick, and that if it was incapacitating for you, you would not go out there to be that miserable and unable to pull your own weight.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

denverd0n said:


> No, it's not madness. You just have to know yourself. I have a very strong proclivity for getting seasick. I can pretty much count on it every voyage. I get sick. I get over it. I go on. For me, it's not a big deal.
> 
> I realize that it is a very big deal for some people. There are those who are rendered completely incapable of any activity for days on end by it. Those folks should probably think twice about an ocean voyage. But most don't get it that bad. Most are over the symptoms within a couple of days.
> 
> A proclivity for getting seasick is definitely NOT a reason to avoid an ocean voyage, assuming that you are willing to deal with and manage the symptoms.


One will not get motion sickness in the whole trip (7 to whatever). When the body finds its own equilibrium,the seasickness will go away. It usually take 3 to 6 days. Yes, there are plenty of meds will help to overcome this problem. No one need to stay on land, if he or she decides to sail the ocean.

The patch or some combination OTC will work wonder. The most potent and last resort is Phenergan (promethazine HCl), 2 mg IM. Get it from your doctor and learn how to use it. If sea sicknesses does not being taking care in a timely, it can be fatal. I always carry that with me.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

capta said:


> That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Again, you know not of what you post! I know hundreds of mariners (and I'm NOT talking about fair weather sailors here) with more sea time individually than you could get in three lifetimes the way you are going, who have never been sea sick.
> It isn't a matter of when or if; it just doesn't work that way.
> Seasickness could be fatal on a voyage of 10 to 20 days, so in your own words, 'No reason to tempt fates.' I couldn't imagine doing any ocean voyage where I was afraid to go below because I might get seasick. If you have that problem, you'd better stick to day sailing and leave the offshore work to those who are comfortable below or on deck.


Ya, and Ellen MacArthur with more big boat ocean crossings than almost anyone is notoriously sea sick the first few days out. Should she have passed up her sailing carear because she pukes over the side?

The reality is in the right conditions everyone will get sea sick, sure commercial guys may not see those conditions on cargo ships, but put the same ones on a small boat (<100') in big seas and they will puke too.


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## cwyckham (Jul 9, 2009)

Halcyon1 said:


> Here are my top 5 tips for anyone crossing the Atlantic this year:
> 
> Top 5 Tips for crossing the Atlantic - International Yacht Delivery | Halcyon Yachts
> 
> ...


Very nicely put together article. Your graphic for the sail plan was fantastic. The only thing I can't figure out on it is why there are three jib sheets? There seems to be an active and lazy sheet on the starboard side. Why is this?

Then only thing I can think is that you want to keep your "upwind jib lead" threaded and also run a sheet back through an aft turning block to get a better angle. Once you fix the clew position with the pole, though, the sheeting angle doesn't really matter anymore, does it?


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

cwyckham said:


> Very nicely put together article. Your graphic for the sail plan was fantastic. The only thing I can't figure out on it is why there are three jib sheets? There seems to be an active and lazy sheet on the starboard side. Why is this?
> 
> Then only thing I can think is that you want to keep your "upwind jib lead" threaded and also run a sheet back through an aft turning block to get a better angle. Once you fix the clew position with the pole, though, the sheeting angle doesn't really matter anymore, does it?


Well, I won't presume to speak for Pete, but I think it's a good idea to use a separate, somewhat 'sacrificial' sheet, to eliminate the possibility of chafing what might be a high quality/very expensive rope being used for the jib sheets...

Chafe at the pole end isn't much of an issue as long as the clew if butted right up against the jaw of the pole, but if you wind up furling the sail a bit while using a fixed length pole, then chafe can certainly become a problem on a long, rolly passage...

Your guess about the jib sheeting angle is a good one, as well... Always depends on the boat, of course, but on a boat with a jib not much larger than 100%, normally sheeting inboard of the shrouds, perhaps, the angle of the lead back inboard to the car can be a bit sharp. That will also increase the compression forces on the pole, never a good thing, particularly if using an adjustable line-control pole... Taking the lead back to a snatch or turning block back at the cockpit is just a bit easier all around, and reduces the load on the pole at least somewhat, and makes the sail a bit easier to trim if being unfurled, or the pole brought further aft...


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

rockDAWG said:


> One will not get motion sickness in the whole trip (7 to whatever). When the body finds its own equilibrium,the seasickness will go away.


Maybe, or maybe not. Different people react differently. For example...

Have a friend who is a graduate of Annapolis. On his first command he had a guy who was brand new to the Navy on board. In fact, this guy had joined the Navy without ever before having been on a boat, and this was his first time. He got seasick the first day, just like a whole bunch of others did. Difference is that this guy never got better. He spent two weeks at sea under the constant care of the on-board physician. Finally the physician said that they needed to get him off the boat--he simply was not going to get better.

My friend said this guy tried again a while later. Same results. For whatever reason, he simply could not go out to sea without becoming incapacitated. In the end the Navy put him in a desk job, he served one hitch, and then he mustered out.

Of course, the overwhelming majority will get over it within a few days. And most are not completely incapacitated by it even while suffering. But any generalization about seasickness is almost sure to be wrong. Different people react differently, and there is almost nothing you can say about it that will truly apply to every single person out there.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Im not prone to seasickness however I do feel queezy and overall just unsettled in the stomach the first day or 2 of any long passage

usually after a few shifts(I like the early am shifts and a nice sunrise with some coffee Im in voyaging mode)

and thats that!

everybody is different so no reason to presume to know how to treat all peoples...one such t thing might not work for everybody and so on...

anywhoo


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

rockDAWG said:


> Well, if you haven't got seasick, you have not tried hard enough. Everyone will get seasick in the right conditions. No reason to tempt fates. Seasickness does not discriminate.
> 
> Stop trolling.


Neither my wife or I were ever seasick while sailing around the world. Some people have the proclivity and some don't.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

rockDAWG said:


> One will not get motion sickness in the whole trip (7 to whatever).


Nope.

The US Navy has done a lot of research on motion sickness. So has US NASA. Some people do get over it (usually in 24 to 48 hours). Some don't. I had a crew member from Falmouth to Horta (who was supposed to make it all the way across the Atlantic) that simply did not get better. Meds didn't help. He couldn't even keep ice chips down. I was really worried about dehydration.

You have to watch your crew.

I'd been sailing for 30 years before I was seasick the first time. I've been seasick twice. Interestingly it hasn't been in heavy weather.

Research indicates that there are two principle factors, one is the frequency of motion that creates the greatest effect and the other is the susceptibility to motion off the most significant frequency. Orthogonal to those factors is the degree of reaction. If the amplitude of reaction is high enough and the shape of the reactive curve as a function of frequency is broad enough a subject will be seasick and stay that way.

Fortunately there aren't a lot of those people, but there are enough that it is of concern.

Note that some reaction is physiological and some is psychological.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

diesel fumes trigger it for many as well

it really made me feel worse...and x2 on heavy weather not being a factor for many, in fact Ive felt uneasy more in doldrums or when the horizon cant be seen or when cooking too much and not breathing fresh air

however what I suffer isnt considered seasickness really, I have been with crew that had to use those wristbands 24 hours a day aaaaaaaaand also dramamine every once in a while however that didnt stop him from cruising full time...

anywhoo


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

Stumble said:


> Ya, and Ellen MacArthur with more big boat ocean crossings than almost anyone is notoriously sea sick the first few days out. Should she have passed up her sailing carear because she pukes over the side?
> 
> The reality is in the right conditions everyone will get sea sick, sure commercial guys may not see those conditions on cargo ships, but put the same ones on a small boat (<100') in big seas and they will puke too.


I agree with the first statement (not the "more big boat ocean crossings than almost anyone" part ) - I know many people that get sick in the first 3 to 4 days and then are fine for the rest of the voyage. My wife is one.

I disagree emphatically with the second statement and support Capta in the notion that there are people who never get seasick. I am one of them. I have never been seasick in my life and have several ocean voyages under my belt in some of the worst sea conditions around (like 20 years local sailing in and out of the Agulhus Stream).

I have sat on top of a diesel engine bleeding it in a storm. I have emptied out a rotten deep freeze in bad sea conditions. I have sailed in some of the wildest conditions most sailors will ever meet. Never thrown up even once. Never even felt queasy.

My son-in-law is the same - has 1000's of miles of ocean voyaging under his belt - never been even close to seasick.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

Good list Halcyon

The one thing that bears mentioning regarding foodstuffs is that if fresh produce is kept in dark (and of course cool) environs, they will last significantly longer. We have a locker that is kept closed and dark and it happens to be below the waterline and thus it's nice and cool and our veggies last far longer than many of the people we sail alongside.

And then there's the turning over of the eggs routinely . . . . .


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Omatako said:


> I agree with the first statement (not the "more big boat ocean crossings than almost anyone" part ) - I know many people that get sick in the first 3 to 4 days and then are fine for the rest of the voyage. My wife is one.
> 
> I disagree emphatically with the second statement and support Capta in the notion that there are people who never get seasick. I am one of them. I have never been seasick in my life and have several ocean voyages under my belt in some of the worst sea conditions around (like 20 years local sailing in and out of the Agulhus Stream).
> 
> ...


omatako h28s are popular in nz right?

well I had one and had an exact same experience in that small boat like your story

however it was a **** thrashing gulf stream crossing, diesel died and I was bleeding that puppy in basically what felt like a canoe, up and down up and down sideways in a really bad storm...somehow some way I managed to bleed the filters and get her to run..

the storm lasted another hour or so leaving the gulf in a choppy, humid mess

I was not incapacitated nor sick however my older crew BOTH of them despite all the seasick medicine or contraptions both fell to the floor in baby mode and could not would not do anything no matter what to help out

they basically couldnt

and after the storm guess who had to cook? ME! jajajaja

however I was 21, very fit, and unlike now had much more stamina to stay alert and productive...these days a fart will make me queezy

just sayin

I was or maybe still am in the never get seasick crowd HOWEVER my body and brain have changed as most of us experience through out our lives


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

no tomatoes in lockers folks! 

THAT MADE ME HURL when I found some about 3 days out exploding and rotten...

man...still remember the hurl! jajajaja

we are a big fan of nets for fruits and veggies and hang in good airflow...the cool salt air(if in cooler climates) does its thing and in hot climates you have to rotate very frequently no matter what

anywhoo

good thread


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Omatako said:


> The one thing that bears mentioning regarding foodstuffs is that if fresh produce is kept in dark (and of course cool) environs, they will last significantly longer.


It helps tremendously to separate ethylene producing food from ethylene sensitive foods.



christian.hess said:


> we are a big fan of nets for fruits and veggies and hang in good airflow...the cool salt air(if in cooler climates) does its thing and in hot climates you have to rotate very frequently no matter what


I've never had good luck with nets. Hung transversely nets still turned apples into sauce and oranges into juice. Probably fine at anchor but not good at all on passage. Now I use nets just for clothes and books.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

We have had good luck with nets and with one of those sets of hanging wire shelves. One other thing for fruits and vegetables is that some are just much better than others. Tomatoes need to be eaten early while cabbages will last forever. Everything else is somewhere in between.

We have not a problem with eggs and do not bother to turn them. We bought eggs in South Africa and they were still fine when we got to Grenada. We have had two eggs spoil in fit years, generally in very warm places. The key of course is to get eggs that have never been refrigerated. This is quite easy everywhere but in North America, parts of the Caribbean, and Darwin, Australia in our experience.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

killarney_sailor said:


> Tomatoes need to be eaten early while cabbages will last forever. Everything else is somewhere in between.


There are lots of lists of what keeps how long, not all of which agree.

Tomatoes and leaf lettuce don't last long. Potatoes, carrots, and cabbage last a long time.

Carolyn Shearlock and Jan Irons cover a lot of ground in "The Boat Galley Cookbook." I think Beth Leonard has some articles as well. There are all kinds of threads with varying degrees of credibility here on SN and over on CF.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

goes to show that not all fruits and veggies are created equal and that the most important factor is climate not method

nets worked great for us from everything from onions to soft fruits and veggies

key was location(vberth under a vent) and not being in direct sunlight...like omatako says

I had a very very bad experience with putting fruits especially and certain veggies inside lockers and the issue here was CLIMATE not method like specified earlier

also some veggies expell gases and in hot climates there is just no way to keep them for long...green veggies are all but impossible to keep more than a few days. unless again in cooler climates.

also I should point out that smaller boats move more and for us no matter how much we tried fruits would bruise if out of sight...in sight we could keep an eye on them and rotate rotate rotate...

for tomatoes unless green we would stew and or preserve them and or not use them(just use cans and sauces and pastes)

onions and potatoes and rice always as staples, pastas too...

that was enough for us


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

SVAuspicious said:


> *It helps tremendously to separate ethylene producing food from ethylene sensitive foods*http://www.thekitchn.com/food-science-ethylene-gas-130275.
> 
> I've never had good luck with nets. Hung transversely nets still turned apples into sauce and oranges into juice. Probably fine at anchor but not good at all on passage. Now I use nets just for clothes and books.


BINGO regarding bold


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

denverd0n said:


> Maybe, or maybe not. Different people react differently. For example...
> 
> Have a friend who is a graduate of Annapolis. On his first command he had a guy who was brand new to the Navy on board. In fact, this guy had joined the Navy without ever before having been on a boat, and this was his first time. He got seasick the first day, just like a whole bunch of others did. Difference is that this guy never got better. He spent two weeks at sea under the constant care of the on-board physician. Finally the physician said that they needed to get him off the boat--he simply was not going to get better.
> 
> ...


I said that for the general population with the normal bell curve distribution, outliners do often exist, let alone the bimodal and trimodal distribution. **** sapiens are rather complex organism.

FDA approves new drugs based on 4,000 to 10,000 individual data from safety, efficiency and adverse drug effect. If you look back to the history of drug approval since the 60's in the U.S alone, there are handful of drugs get total recalled after marketing in the U.S just for a couple years, because of patient death.

Motion sickness is no different, some will never get sick, most get sick and will get better eventually. There will be handful will never get better. I am glad I am not the last type. Occasionally but not often, I will get seasick (vomiting). But fortunately, I never get drowses and fatigue. It will never a reason for me to stop sailing.

I continue to despise with people here to use fear mongering (sea sickness) to discourage other to sail. It is just wrong.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

SVAuspicious said:


> It helps tremendously to separate ethylene producing food from ethylene sensitive foods.


Good info thanks. Currently back on land for the winter and re provisioning the house. Recalled some info about what was ok and not to store together.

On board I like to keep fruit like Apples in palm woven baskets (picked up in my travels) in plain sight and secure them on towels off to the side when underway. Like to have quick and easy access for a quick bite of sustenance.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

rockDAWG said:


> I said that for the general population with the normal bell curve distribution, outliners do often exist, let alone the bimodal and trimodal distribution. **** sapiens are rather complex organism.
> 
> FDA approves new drugs based on 4,000 to 10,000 individual data from safety, efficiency and adverse drug effect. If you look back to the history of drug approval since the 60's in the U.S alone, there are handful of drugs get total recalled after marketing in the U.S just for a couple years, because of patient death.
> 
> ...


If you mention the use of the below medication, everybody seems to recover form mal de mer very, very quickly.

PROMETHAZINE SUPPOSITORY - RECTAL (Phenergan, Promethegan) side effects, medical uses, and drug interactions.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

aeventyr60 said:


> If you mention the use of the below medication, everybody seems to recover form mal de mer very, very quickly.
> 
> PROMETHAZINE SUPPOSITORY - RECTAL (Phenergan, Promethegan) side effects, medical uses, and drug interactions.


I agree. But with explanation 

I should have mentioned the suppository, instead of Phenergan IM. I subconsciously avoided mention suppository because every suppository sold in the States is a money loser (unless fro children) Unlike Europe especially UK, suppository sells better.

Yes, Phenergan is such an old drug and cheap too. It works when all other fail (OTC or patch). It works fast, less than 5 min if given intramuscularly.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

mbianka said:


> On board I like to keep fruit like Apples in palm woven baskets (picked up in my travels) in plain sight and secure them on towels off to the side when underway. Like to have quick and easy access for a quick bite of sustenance.


I use woven baskets in the galley also for lots of things, including some that would probably keep better in the refrigerator. What works for me is to keep food I need to eat before it goes bad where I can see it so I don't forget I have it.



aeventyr60 said:


> If you mention the use of the below medication, everybody seems to recover form mal de mer very, very quickly.


In my experience with crew, suppositories have the fastest response. There are some people who are put off by the concept but it works.

On a related note, some people find themselves constipated on passage. Hemorrhoid suppositories help without further disrupting *ahem* digestive processes.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

I know people will laugh at this but ginger both in tea and in candied form for mild motion sickness or vertigo work well for those starting to feel the symptoms

this combined with a view of the horizon for prolonged periods does help however wont do jack squat if your past the point of no return or inmobilized

anyways

good thread

makes me wanna sail the atlantic since Im so close! jajaja


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

christian.hess said:


> I know people will laugh at this but ginger both in tea and in candied form for mild motion sickness or vertigo work well for those starting to feel the symptoms


I agree. I carry ginger ale, ginger snaps, and ginger tea bags. The stuff really helps most people.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

The whole thread is about sea sickness! LOL thats the least of your worries. Everyone will be over it within a few days.

My tips are:
You're not in the Navy so relax and have a good time

Sundowners from the first night are great! Alcohol can settle a nervy/seasick crew.

Don't fall into the trap of "one pot dinners" and canned dinners. You have all day and all night so get to work in the galley and cook up extravaganzas! 

Don't pick on someone, or pick on someones habit, just let everyone be. Unless you are heading for a breach of safety just watch your own annoying habits. 20 days is a long time.

Don't start milage competitions it only makes the fastest sailor feel good and everyone else feel like ****.

Don't count down the miles, especially if you still have more than 1,000. You will get there when you get there. You've paid thousands of dollars now you want to abbreviate your enjoyment?

If you have SSB and on a net and they ask: Is All Well? Say "YES! Of course! We are having a great time!" Because bad news infects, and being at sea is fun! 

When provisioning do so on an empty stomach. Then you won't starve at sea.

Stock up on LOTS of naughty snacks and treats. No one in the history of sailing has put on weight on an ocean crossing and chocolate at 2am hits a very special spot.

Be silly every day. Why not? Your crew will laugh and a happy ship is a ....

Finally: An ocean crossing is the dream you have been planning for years, you've spent so much money to get to the beginning, so now that you are embarking on it remember to have FUN. Its one of the greatest adventures in life and you can do this with a smile on your face, a song on your lips and get rid of the stress of your previous life. The only "Book" you have to do it by is your book, so make every page relaxed and enjoyable and Captain Bligh ain't Anywhere.

Drink more beer.


Mark


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Trust me, dawg, there are some people who just have no concept of what the idea might be. They can drink, smoke, hang upside down working on the engine, get downwind of the diesel, and none of it bothers them. The rest of us just make long and heartfelt prayers to Our Father Who Art In Scopolamine.

But getting back to provisioning...
The OP's link mentions stocking up on bananas. HTF do you stock up on bananas, if you're not leaving port in a banana republic? Here in the States, no matter where or how you buy them, bananas have already made the long boat trip to get here, and they go from green to squishy brown in four, five days tops after that. Even in the "green" bags. And refrigerated them is a mixed bag, no pun intended, to boot.
So how _do _you keep bananas fresh longer than four days??


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

the only way to keep bananas for a crossing is to get the whole damn "tree" and hang it like most who cross the pacific do

they will last up to 20 days like that even more if you shade 1 half first

having said that being a bananaman myslef from a banana country I couldnt eat more than 3 a day

and even having it in banana bread or pancakes halfway through a crossing got old

really

you cant really have them every single meal and not get tired of them

id much rather have fresh succulent juicy oranges for example that helps against scurvy! jajajaja

aaaargh


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

So, in the context of Atlantic crossings and Atlantic cruisers,

First you have FedEx pick up the whole banana tree in some banana republic and bring it to the dock on the morning you are departing.

Then you can enjoy that pasty fruit for nearly three weeks while at sea.

Yes?

What's the old Harry Chapin song, "40,000 Pounds of Bananas" ?


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> Trust me, dawg, there are some people who just have no concept of what the idea might be. They can drink, smoke, hang upside down working on the engine, get downwind of the diesel, and none of it bothers them. The rest of us just make long and heartfelt prayers to Our Father Who Art In Scopolamine.
> 
> But getting back to provisioning...
> The OP's link mentions stocking up on bananas. HTF do you stock up on bananas, if you're not leaving port in a banana republic? Here in the States, no matter where or how you buy them, bananas have already made the long boat trip to get here, and they go from green to squishy brown in four, five days tops after that. Even in the "green" bags. And refrigerated them is a mixed bag, no pun intended, to boot.
> So how _do _you keep bananas fresh longer than four days??


Yes, I trust you.  NASA and USAF have done lot of experiment on motion sickness. They have not found anyone can escape motion sickness in the Hi-G centrifuge.

Actually, motion sickness leads to vomiting is an evolution adaptation. When the body senses the disagreement between sensory and vestibular system, the human brain thinks this must be caused by food poisoning and trigger the vomiting center to vomit. It is the survival trait that we inherited from evolution.

I don't eat much banana at home, but love it when cruising off shore. Keep me regular. Unfortunately, there are a few captains I have encountered bringing bananas on board is totally out of the question. Mentioning the word banana will get you locked in the head for hours.....


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

SVAuspicious said:


> I agree. I carry ginger ale, ginger snaps, and ginger tea bags. The stuff really helps most people.


They are the best placebo treats. Since some motion sickness is triggered psychologically, some will find it feel better. Unfortunately these won't work in space, flight jet or Force 10 motion sickness.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

christian.hess said:


> id much rather have fresh succulent juicy oranges for example that helps against scurvy! jajajaja
> 
> aaaargh


I like tangerines. They are easy to peel and juicy. The sea turtle likes their skin. It is a real treat.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> The whole thread is about sea sickness! LOL thats the least of your worries. Everyone will be over it within a few days.
> 
> My tips are:
> You're not in the Navy so relax and have a good time
> ...


That's some most excellent advice, Mark, I like your attitude...

However, I'm a bit surprised that some teetotaler hasn't yet arrived on scene, appalled at your endorsement of drinking while underway, much less during the course of an offshore passage...

)


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

You can always take dried banana chips. But bananas are a mixed blessing, they can also spike blood sugar mercilessly. 

Ginger foods are not at all a placebo. Ginger is a rubefacient, a complund that makes people look red and flushed because it is dilating the capillaries which in turn oxygenates the entire body and brain. And even NASA has found that does counter some motion sickness. As a couple of billion traditional Chinese patients would also testify.

Oh, and of course, if you're getting a fresh bunch of bananas off a tree? Beware the spiders that like to next in there. Nasty bites.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

christian.hess said:


> the only way to keep bananas for a crossing is to get the whole damn "tree" and hang it like most who cross the pacific do
> 
> they will last up to 20 days like that even more if you shade 1 half first
> 
> ...


Ha Ha christian,

My banana story: So we are in the Marquesas, Haka Hetau to be exact, friendly villager gives us a huge stalk of bananas and a bag of limes for us to deliver to his friends in the Tuamotus..So we hang the bananas from our our boatboard engine lifting device and secure it with a bungy cord to prevent it from knocking about, well one night in the rolly roadstead anchorage the bungy came undone, and those bananas knocked back and forth all night, spewing banana poop all over the cockpit, damn have you ever tried scrubbing dried banana off?


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Grew up on a fishboat and never been mal demerd. But met a couple of guys bringing a 45'Tiawan special from Japan on a dead of winter north Pacific crossing. The 3rd member was so sick and dehydrated he died in his bunk. Not a banana story ,sorry.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> Oh, and of course, if you're getting a fresh bunch of bananas off a tree? Beware the spiders that like to next in there. Nasty bites.


Poisonous spiders are way there is a tradition of avoiding bananas on boats. It isn't an issue for hands, which are easy to inspect, but for bunches. You can always hang the bunch in the water for a few hours before hanging it.


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## luv4sailin (Jul 3, 2006)

When folks who are concerned about seasickness ask me what to eat when offshore, I always suggest bananas. When asked why? I answer because they taste pretty much the same on the way back up as they did on the way down!


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

aeventyr60 said:


> Ha Ha christian,
> 
> My banana story: So we are in the Marquesas, Haka Hetau to be exact, friendly villager gives us a huge stalk of bananas and a bag of limes for us to deliver to his friends in the Tuamotus..So we hang the bananas from our our boatboard engine lifting device and secure it with a bungy cord to prevent it from knocking about, well one night in the rolly roadstead anchorage the bungy came undone, and those bananas knocked back and forth all night, spewing banana poop all over the cockpit, damn have you ever tried scrubbing dried banana off?


we hung it under the solar panel arch(so no no banana poop, but I have a feeling it sucked man

now what I want to know is what you told your friend happened to the bananas? hmmmmmmmmmmm?

jajajaja


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

*Capta :*

_That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Again, you know not of what you post! I know hundreds of mariners (and I'm NOT talking about fair weather sailors here) with more sea time individually than you could get in three lifetimes the way you are going, who have never been sea sick.
It isn't a matter of when or if; it just doesn't work that way.
Seasickness could be fatal on a voyage of 10 to 20 days, so in your own words, 'No reason to tempt fates.' I couldn't imagine doing any ocean voyage where I was afraid to go below because I might get seasick. If you have that problem, you'd better stick to day sailing and leave the offshore work to those who are comfortable below or on deck._

I guess you must be a super-hero then.
Even better than Lord Nelson, who got very seasick every time he went to sea.
He was an awfully good mariner though.

There are very few people that can go below on a sailboat in the early part of any journey and not get very ill.
I know of only one.

I guess you must be another one.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Rockter said:


> There are very few people that can go below on a sailboat in the early part of any journey and not get very ill.


Seriously ??? Well, perhaps on your side of the pond... )

Sorry, but that's just plain wrong...


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Most people I know dont get sea sick.


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## Mark1977 (Sep 29, 2011)

I never get sea sick....sick of the sea sometimes though....


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

JonEisberg said:


> Seriously ??? Well, perhaps on your side of the pond... )
> 
> Sorry, but that's just plain wrong...


"Wrong"?

So once again, those that disagree with you are not only "wrong", but "plain wrong".

Don't take my word for it. Take your crew out on a lumpy sea, send them below and ask them to read a magazine from cover to cover. You will find that few of them will get beyond about page 5, and almost none to about page 10 before they want to get topsides.

Maybe we are just inferior in the eastern Atlantic margins, or it may be something to do with being in colder water over here, or the water must always be shallower, but I doubt it.

They will get ill, and I do too, and I have sailed across the north Atlantic and learned how to manage it. I don't read anything but charts (and even then briefly), for about the first 4 days. If I try to read stuff earlier than that, I get ill.

Perhaps I should not sail at all?


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Just don't read. Maybe coloring books would be better.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Rockter said:


> ...
> *There are very few people that can go below on a sailboat in the early part of any journey and not get very ill.*
> I know of only one.
> 
> I guess you must be another one.


This is based on what data? Just because you haven't personally met a large sample, it doesn't follow that they don't exist.

My SO never gets sea sick. Well, once. He drank a jar of pickle juice on a dare while serving on a USCG cutter back in the 80s.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Rockter, you exaggerated your point and made it plain wrong. Very few people is not true. Then you added reading. 

The fact is there are many that can't go below at all in lumpy seas. But many that can.

The only truth I will fully reject is the notion that anyone is immune. There are those that have and those that will, IMO.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

I think it depends a lot on the individual. I've had friends who have gotten seasick while the boat was tied to the dock and we were relaxing in the cockpit. I have never gotten seasick except for one time on a seventy foot schooner in Force Seven conditions in the Gulf of Mexico. Could not stay below more than 30 seconds. But, was fine up on deck or in the bunk sleeping. It passed in a day or two. So that was not too bad. Even the cook was sick on that trip. Had one novice crew member that never got out of the bunk. He had it pretty bad.

_"O, wasn't it dreadful!" said Alice, "to be sick all the time, and nobody there to take care of you."

"Well, I wasn't so sick, maybe, after all," answered the Captain, smiling,-"only sea-sick, you know; and then, for the credit of the ship, I'll say that, if you had nice plum-pudding every day for dinner, you would think it horrid stuff if you were sea-sick."

"But don't people die when they are sea-sick?" inquired Alice.

"Not often, child," answered the Captain, playfully; "but they feel all the time as if they were going to, and when they don't feel that way, they feel as if they'd like to."_ -Castaway in the Cold


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Rockter said:


> There are very few people that can go below on a sailboat in the early part of any journey and not get very ill.
> I know of only one.
> 
> I guess you must be another one.


I know of a lot of people that don't get sick.

For 30 years I was one. I'm up to two times now, neither in particularly "lumpy" weather.



Minnewaska said:


> The fact is there are many that can't go below at all in lumpy seas. But many that can.
> 
> The only truth I will fully reject is the notion that anyone is immune. There are those that have and those that will, IMO.


Well spoken.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Minnewaska said:


> Rockter, you exaggerated your point and made it plain wrong. Very few people is not true. Then you added reading.
> 
> The fact is there are many that can't go below at all in lumpy seas. But many that can.
> 
> The only truth I will fully reject is the notion that anyone is immune. *There are those that have and those that will, IMO.*


In the motorcycle world there is a saying "there are those that have fallen or crashed and those that WILL"

no other way

in any case I think its futile arguing with those that want to say that there is an only yes or no answer to seasickness

everybodies experience is valid, so trying to use one guys thoughts on the matter over someone elses, especially when in different continents, contexts and cultures you lose authenticity by continuosly expounding your case

the very simple truth is that huumans arent perfect...and you can go many times around the world and never get seasick yet maybe you ate a burrito and all of a sudden you feel a bit off and guess what that triggered seasickness

you aren´t less of a human for that

so I dont get those lately here that wont give one sides position a rest...

who cares if you dont think ginger ameliorates mild motion sickness...I dont if someone says its a placebo

same applies to those who say they never get sick or they always get sick

who cares?


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Rockter said:


> "Wrong"?
> 
> So once again, those that disagree with you are not only "wrong", but "plain wrong".


I'm happy to stick with my stated opinion... You and I must have entirely different notions of what is meant by the terms "very few", or "very ill", is all I can figure... 



Rockter said:


> Don't take my word for it. Take your crew out on a lumpy sea, send them below and ask them to read a magazine from cover to cover. You will find that few of them will get beyond about page 5, and almost none to about page 10 before they want to get topsides.


Well, most folks I've had the pleasure of sailing offshore with, by the time they got close to page 5, they'd be sleeping like a baby...



Rockter said:


> Perhaps I should not sail at all?


Of course not... There are many superb sailors out there who might feel a bit queasy at the outset of a passage, but like yourself, have simply adapted and learned how best to manage it... Evans Starzinger is a hugely experienced voyager who admits to this, to name just one example...

But, perhaps you might refrain from making such categorical assertions re the percentage of sailors that will suffer from seasickness, that would appear to have little basis in reality...

)


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

christian.hess said:


> same applies to those who say they never get sick or they always get sick
> 
> who cares?


Well, when it comes to selecting a crew for an offshore passage, I, for one, certainly care...  Given the choice between 2 sailors of roughly equivalent abilities and experience, but one of whom is prone to debilitating bouts of seasickness, which one would you rather have aboard?

Last time I was in Bermuda, we had a boat that came in and rafted alongside us... Like us, they were on their way to the islands, but had to divert to Bermuda... Their sole reason for doing so, was simply to let a crewmember who had been basically incapacitated for much of the trip jump ship, and fly back home...

As a result, they were looking for pick-up crew in St George's... I'm gonna guess a question about any candidate's susceptibility to mal du mer just might have arisen during the interview process...

)

Hell, boats have been abandoned, after all, due to chronic seasickness... So, yeah, it can actually be a pretty big deal, at times...


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

How long are we going to argue about motion sickness? Just remember we all have learned the bell curve in our college days unless you were partying all four years.... . There are a few on the either side. Get over it.










Motion sickness is part of the genes in all mammals. Our four leg friends can get motion sickness too. But please do not get totally out shape if you dog does not get sick. There is life beyond Sailnet, people.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

rockDAWG said:


> How long are we going to argue about motion sickness? Just remember we all have learned the bell curve in our college days unless you were partying all four years.... . There are a few on the either side. Get over it.


Not everything fits into a Gaussian distribution. Research does indicate that there are a number of orthogonal factors - principle frequency of motion, magnitude of susceptibility, degree of susceptibility as a function of frequency, duration, environmental factors, and other. Read the peer-reviewed literature.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

JonEisberg said:


> Well, when it comes to selecting a crew for an offshore passage, I, for one, certainly care...  Given the choice between 2 sailors of roughly equivalent abilities and experience, but one of whom is prone to debilitating bouts of seasickness, which one would you rather have aboard?
> 
> Last time I was in Bermuda, we had a boat that came in and rafted alongside us... Like us, they were on their way to the islands, but had to divert to Bermuda... Their sole reason for doing so, was simply to let a crewmember who had been basically incapacitated for much of the trip jump ship, and fly back home...
> 
> ...


It is a big deal of course Jon

what im arguing is the need to argue and belabor a point

of course selecting crew and or a captain its common sense you would pick one who is not prone seasickness

nobody is arguing that I hope

im just flabbergasted that one would argue so much for either side

there is no need for it...

if you have experienced it know of people who have and you yourself dont experience it EVER than good for you

same applies to the sailor that always experiences it but takes 1 dramamine ever time he sets on foot on his or someoenes elses boat

I just dont see the need to keep arguing this

points have been proven, and disproven

yet people still get sick out there or not


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

SVAuspicious said:


> Not everything fits into a Gaussian distribution. Research does indicate that there are a number of orthogonal factors - principle frequency of motion, magnitude of susceptibility, degree of susceptibility as a function of frequency, duration, environmental factors, and other. Read the peer-reviewed literature.


Great, I am glad that you support the argument in the biological system, a much greater variability can be observed in motion sickness. We should be not surprised if some one does not get sick and some does get sick regardless. So I assume this becomes null point.


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## SavvySalt (Sep 16, 2014)

cwyckham said:


> The only thing I can't figure out on it is why there are three jib sheets? There seems to be an active and lazy sheet on the starboard side. Why is this?
> 
> Then only thing I can think is that you want to keep your "upwind jib lead" threaded and also run a sheet back through an aft turning block to get a better angle. Once you fix the clew position with the pole, though, the sheeting angle doesn't really matter anymore, does it?


This puzzled me a bit as well. But then I realized that the "normal" jib sheets simply might not be long enough to be lead from the jib through the pole way outboard, through the jib car and then back to the winch. One could fix that with a longer jib sheet.

Something you couldn't fix with just a longer sheet would be getting a fair lead, if you want to be able to adjust the pole position the portion of sheet between jib track on deck and the pole is probably going to cause the jib sheet to chafe on or generally annoy the lifelines and stanchions. Then you could re-run your longer jib sheet to a block on the rail and to a winch.

Or you could just tie/clip on a spin sheet and use the blocks from your spin setup. After writing the last two paragraphs this would almost certainly be my preference 

Apologies if this was already addressed, there was a lot about seasickness and provisions that I skimmed.


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## knuterikt (Aug 7, 2006)

cwyckham said:


> Very nicely put together article. Your graphic for the sail plan was fantastic. The only thing I can't figure out on it is why there are three jib sheets? There seems to be an active and lazy sheet on the starboard side. Why is this?
> 
> Then only thing I can think is that you want to keep your "upwind jib lead" threaded and also run a sheet back through an aft turning block to get a better angle. Once you fix the clew position with the pole, though, the sheeting angle doesn't really matter anymore, does it?


This setup make sense to me 








From Top 5 Tips for crossing the Atlantic - International Yacht Delivery | Halcyon Yachts


> My preferred approach is to triangulate the pole using a foreguy, topping lift and an afterguy. One advantage of fixing the pole in this way is that you can easily and quickly furl the headsail should you need to, keeping the pole in place and ready to go.
> 
> Be aware of chafe and always set a preventer on the boom. You will more than likely experience several squalls - be ready to furl away the genoa quickly and alter course accordingly to avoid an accidental gybe.


With the extra sheet you can rig everything (pole with sheet, foreguy, topping lift and afterguy) first while you control the sail with it's normal sheet. 
When everything is set you transfer the load to the new sheet.

If (when) you need to do a maneuver you can use both normal sheets immediately - just transfer the load back to the normal sheet and you are in full control (no re routing of any sheets)

This way you are prepared to quickly 
* Head up (gybing the genoa)
* Gybe the main and head up (using the normal sheet)

The pole can be reset or stowed when the maneuver is completed.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

The extra sheet/guy system is very easy for people who use spinnakers as the kit is there, made up and usually on deck.

I will use that or just the sheet, or an extra sheet so I can run the sheet outboard of the genoa cars to a block a fair way aft.

My configuration is shown in this video. Early i the video you will see the sheet behind my head angling down to a point quite aft.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> The extra sheet/guy system is very easy for people who use spinnakers as the kit is there, made up and usually on deck.
> 
> I will use that or just the sheet, or an extra sheet so I can run the sheet outboard of the genoa cars to a block a fair way aft.
> 
> My configuration is shown in this video. Early i the video you will see the sheet behind my head angling down to a point quite aft.


Nice video......where was the beer?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I sort of understand the idea that a pfd in the middle of the Atlantic is futile, when single handed. But not clipped in either?


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> I sort of understand the idea that a pfd in the middle of the Atlantic is futile, when single handed. But not clipped in either?


Who? Me?

I clip on at night, when I go forward of the cockpit, or when I feel conditions warrant it. But in the conditions in the video, 25-30 knots dead astern, the cockpit is safe enough for me. 

Nor am I wearing sailing gloves or a sponsored logo T-shirt to prove I think I can sail.

As the Americans say "YMMV" (but I don't know what it means.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Who? Me?
> 
> I clip on at night, when I go forward of the cockpit, or when I feel conditions warrant it. But in the conditions in the video, 25-30 knots dead astern, the cockpit is safe enough for me.
> 
> ...


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

My boat was built with this set up and it's great. Can even roll up the genny leave the pole out and deploy the Solent if need to go upwind briefly ( e.g. Reef main). Have preventer in two pieces. one piece goes to bow- through a block- then aft to cockpit. It serves as foreguy if clipped to pole or clips to second piece which runs to aft portion of boom and then is a preventer.
Much work has been done on motion sickness fundamentally it's the failure of the follicular nodular lobe and brain stem vestibular nuclei being able to accomendation the mismatch between proprioception ,visual, and vestibular inputs. The area postrema is stimulated and you puke. 
Yes everyone can be made motion sick. Threshold is different for different people. Those with history of migraine may be more prone. Being dehydrated, tired, apprehensive may lower threshold. 
Strongest emotional and biological response is to smell of our senses. Hence not surprising bad smells ( head, diesel, solvents) decrease threshold. Keep your head spotless and have people puke clipped and in the cockpit.
Reading requires scanning and re fixation saccades. This activity involves the same neural structures as are involved in seasickness. Again not surprising it lowers threshold. 
Seem to be two distinct sub sets of motion sick prone people. Some cant tolerate the low frequency corkscrew motion. Think broad reaching in 10-12' ocean swells. Others the high frequency non rhythmic short jerky motion. Think wind against wave in the Gulf Stream. Some get sick on multi hulls but are fine on mono hulls and the reverse. 
Comfort motion may be a meaningless statistic but for those intolerant of jerky motion displacement,narrow( by modern standards), deep boats maybe more comfortable.
Even the Volvo,boc,OSTAR and other racers say they have gotten sick. Know for myself if I get dehydrated and too tired I may use all of my off watches to sleep and drink fluids. Then don't need to worry. Monitor yourself and this shouldn't be an issue for most of us.


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