# My 'Internet' Knowledge



## Lxy (11 mo ago)

Fractional Sloop
Fin Keel
Tiller Rudder
22 - 26 ft

A good way to start?


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

It could be. There are many good boats in that size range. Tell us more:

Inboard or outboard engine?

What kind of sailing? Inland lakes? Bay? Day sailing? Overnighter?


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## Lxy (11 mo ago)

midwesterner said:


> It could be. There are many good boats in that size range. Tell us more:
> 
> Inboard or outboard engine?
> 
> What kind of sailing? Inland lakes? Bay? Day sailing? Overnighter?


Outboard
Bay
Day sailing


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## Lxy (11 mo ago)

Transom hung rudder
Or
Spade rudder.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

There are many good boats available with those features, that will be good for daysailing on bays. Many sailing clubs and charter operators have boats that size to learn on.

Do you have some models in mind?


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

You can read reviews about the most popular boats here:





__





Boat reviews







www.spinsheet.com


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## Lxy (11 mo ago)

midwesterner said:


> You can read reviews about the most popular boats here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice.


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## Lxy (11 mo ago)

midwesterner said:


> There are many good boats available with those features, that will be good for daysailing on bays. Many sailing clubs and charter operators have boats that size to learn on.
> 
> Do you have some models in mind?


No models in mind - yet.


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

Do you want to trailer the boat or keep it in the water?

Sounds like you have your criteria pretty well laid out. Just start shopping.


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## shoffman57 (Jan 21, 2013)

Find a sailing club and try some different boats to get some idea of what you're happy with before you buy a boat you will grow out of.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Lxy said:


> Fractional Sloop
> Fin Keel
> Tiller Rudder
> 22 - 26 ft
> ...


good as any

Me, I started with sloop, fin keel, wheel, 33' and moved up to a 39' after 3 months. It depends on your goals and desires.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

In what part of the country do you reside and sail? What is your sailing experience? 

There is a great little place I chartered once, in Key Largo, Florida Keys. It is Key Lime sailing. They give instructions and do Charters. They have small cabins they rent which includes the day use of a Catalina 22.

We had a great time, the water was beautiful, the weather is almost always nice. I gained a great deal of respect for the Catalina 22. It was a fun easy sailing boat that sailed fast for its size, and is very forgiving for novices.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

For anyone who is just starting out sailing, I always suggest getting a dinghy for a season. I think you will learn to sail more quickly when you don't need to deal with the complications of a bigger boat. You can also get yourself in, and out of trouble without risking damage to a bigger boat (or possibly other boats). If you are ready to jump into a first keelboat, the Catalina 22 is always a good one.


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## Lxy (11 mo ago)

PhilCarlson said:


> Do you want to trailer the boat or keep it in the water?
> 
> Sounds like you have your criteria pretty well laid out. Just start shopping.


Keep it in the water.


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## Lxy (11 mo ago)

Now, I don't have a specific boat in my mind - not yet. I just wonder if the specs I listed, which I learned through mostly online resources, are good criteria for a first sailboat.


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

Nothing wrong with any of what you spec'd out, but understand that there are a wide variety of boats that fit into that range. 
Ask yourself:
-Is this a starter boat, or something you want to keep long term.
--If a starter boat, what do you see yourself graduating to?
-Do you see yourself doing overnights or weekenders.
-Do you see yourself leaving the bay for other costal locations?
-Are you solo sailing, a couple, or with a group friends?


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

As others have said, if you are physically fit, the fastest way to learn boat handling is in a dinghy. Otherwise the absolute best platform to learn to sail is 
moderately light weight 22 to 28 foot fractionally rigged Sloop, with a fin Keel, and tiller steered spade rudder. While people have learned to sail on all kinds of boats, boats like these tend to be responsive and so provide good feed back to the beginner. The fractional rig, spade rudder, small size and light-ish weight make them easier to handle. The fin keel makes them reasonably forgiving. That collection of attributes greatly shortens the learning curve., 

Jeff


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

I'll bite. S2 6.9.
I lose - its transom rudder.


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## Lxy (11 mo ago)

PhilCarlson said:


> Nothing wrong with any of what you spec'd out, but understand that there are a wide variety of boats that fit into that range.
> Ask yourself:
> -Is this a starter boat, or something you want to keep long term.
> --If a starter boat, what do you see yourself graduating to?
> ...


I know, a lot of boats...

It'll be a starter, but it might become a long-term thing too.
No overnights or weekends, so possibly, no other coastal locations either.
Solo or couple.


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## Lxy (11 mo ago)

SHNOOL said:


> I'll bite. S2 6.9.
> I lose - its transom rudder.


I don't know. She also has lifting keel, right?


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## Lxy (11 mo ago)

Jeff_H said:


> As others have said, if you are physically fit, the fastest way to learn boat handling is in a dinghy. Otherwise the absolute best platform to learn to sail is
> moderately light weight 22 to 28 foot fractionally rigged Sloop, with a fin Keel, and tiller steered spade rudder. While people have learned to sail on all kinds of boats, boats like these tend to be responsive and so provide good feed back to the beginner. The fractional rig, spade rudder, small size and light-ish weight make them easier to handle. The fin keel makes them reasonably forgiving. That collection of attributes greatly shortens the learning curve.,
> 
> Jeff


Have you ever considered writing a blog? I've read a lot of your comments on forum pages. They were long, informative articles; I've learned a lot. I wish they could be organized in one location.

Anyhow...

I don't think a dinghy is something I'd buy. I rented a few with friends in my younger days.

My understanding, you add 2 more ft in the length range, and recommend a tiller spade rudder over a transom hung design. You also underline the lightweight attribute. We seem to be on the same page with the rest of the specs. I'll weed out the transom hung rudders completely. I don't care about head, galley, and such accommodations. I wouldn't care if it had a cabin or not.

Well, I have a general idea in my head now as most of my thoughts are verified with experience.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Lifting keel is actually lifting weighted daggerboard. The distinction is that the board is ONLY up for trailering. The S2 7.9 is the bigger brother and is the same way. They both have transom hung rudders though, but that facilitates better trailering (for them both).


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

OK - I got it - Merit 25.
Kirby 25?

Why are we looking for a fractional?
Because I loved my Wavelength 24, and Capri 25.


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## Lxy (11 mo ago)

SHNOOL said:


> Lifting keel is actually lifting weighted daggerboard. The distinction is that the board is ONLY up for trailering. The S2 7.9 is the bigger brother and is the same way. They both have transom hung rudders though, but that facilitates better trailering (for them both).


Interesting keel. It'd be a gem for an F-150 owner.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Lxy said:


> Have you ever considered writing a blog? I've read a lot of your comments on forum pages. They were long, informative articles; I've learned a lot. I wish they could be organized in one location.
> 
> Anyhow...
> 
> ...


Thank you for the kind words, There is nothing inherently wrong with an outboard rudder. There are lots of great small boats with outboard rudders that make good learning platforms, such as a J-22, Santana 23 D or 23 K, . The issue is that some boats with outboard rudders (like J-24) generate lee helm and that is not helpful for a beginner. 

Jeff


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## Lxy (11 mo ago)

Jeff_H said:


> Thank you for the kind words, There is nothing inherently wrong with an outboard rudder. There are lots of great small boats with outboard rudders that make good learning platforms, such as a J-22, Santana 23 D or 23 K, . The issue is that some boats with outboard rudders (like J-24) generate lee helm and that is not helpful for a beginner.
> 
> Jeff


You're welcome.

Outboard rudders are back on the list. I'll remember to approach them on a case-by-case basis.


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## Lxy (11 mo ago)

Well, this was to the point and productive.

Thanks everyone.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I completely disagree with this "learn on a small boat" stuff. If sailing a small boat is your goal, then sure go sail on small boats. But sailing is easy really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sailing good takes a little time, but sailing itself is pretty easy! So if you goal is to be a cruiser, learn to sail on a cruiser.
I have never stepped foot on a boat smaller than 33' and that was after taking lessons on a 36' boat.


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## Lxy (11 mo ago)

Don L said:


> I completely disagree with this "learn on a small boat" stuff. If sailing a small boat is your goal, then sure go sail on small boats. But sailing is easy really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sailing good takes a little time, but sailing itself is pretty easy! So if you goal is to be a cruiser, learn to sail on a cruiser.
> I have never stepped foot on a boat smaller than 33' and that was after taking lessons on a 36' boat.


My goal is sailing a small sailboat at this phase of my life - simply tying it to a dock by a bay at the end of the day. I don't think I'll be losing a whole bunch as the sailboats I consider are cheap. I'm not looking into fixing heads, galleys, inboard diesels, and such. I think even the bilge pump in a Catalina 22 is manual, just an example. I just want the boat to float and sail. Do you think I'll be losing a lot of $$s doing that? As no plans of becoming a cruiser soon and having no experience at all, I think, let's say, a 22 - 25ft keeler wouldn't be a bad start for me. I don't know; I might be wrong as well...


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## Lxy (11 mo ago)

Don L said:


> I completely disagree with this "learn on a small boat" stuff. If sailing a small boat is your goal, then sure go sail on small boats. But sailing is easy really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sailing good takes a little time, but sailing itself is pretty easy! So if you goal is to be a cruiser, learn to sail on a cruiser.
> I have never stepped foot on a boat smaller than 33' and that was after taking lessons on a 36' boat.


If I had money to burn, this would be the most boat I'll consider at this time: SailboatData.com - J/9 Sailboat

Realistically, the biggest thing I might deliberate over, not that I have any research on it yet, is a Catalina 27 or something in that manner, even though it doesn't put a check in every box: SailboatData.com - CATALINA 27 Sailboat

At this stage, I want the simplest, least maintenance sailing fun on a keel boat, something like J22 as Jeff mentioned.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

It sounds like you have a good idea what you are looking for, but so far all the ideas are theoretical. You need to decide what your budget is, and then see what is on the market that suits your needs. There is no point deciding you want an S2 if nobody is selling one in your area!

Are you interested in racing at all? That is an excellent way to learn to sail. See what small boat fleets are racing in your area, and try to get a ride for a beer can race. You will learn a ton about sailing, and about the boats, and you will make new friends at the same time. If you try racing and you like it, then target boats that have active fleets in your area, be it phrf racing or one design.



Sent from my SM-G981W using Tapatalk


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## Lxy (11 mo ago)

SchockT said:


> You need to decide what your budget is, and then see what is on the market that suits your needs.


Budget is a relative thing for me. My budget is the cheapest way to check all the boxes - but safely. If the budget doesn't provide the minimum safety, then the plans have to be postponed. I'm at the dreaming and theory phase; I'll possibly have more posts as things get solid in time.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

In the end the best way to learn to sail is to

Sail


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

There are so many boats that fit your criteria. They cover a range that goes from tubby slugs to sleek racers. We had a 19' Pearson Resolute at one point. Wide, with bench seats on both sides. Great for taking 12 kids out for a birthday party, but slow as a turtle. Lightnings are the same length, but a lot zippier. An Ensign is a bit bigger, more fun to sail than the Resolute, but has an attached rudder. A Soling is very responsive to proper handling, and can plane in the right conditions. They should not be too expensive since they are no longer an Olympic class. Various J/boats would also be possibilities, along with the Catalinas and other designs that have been mentioned. What works well in your area is also important. You don't want to take a Thunderbird from windy San Francisco and move it to dead air central on the Chesapeake - it lacks the sail area and is too heavy to perform well there. It's also silly to buy a boat 500 miles away when there are others just as suitable closer by. If you can figure out a way to do it, trying out different designs to see what suits you best is a good idea.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Dinghy or beach cat. They will teach you more about the wind, sail trim, and balance. Bigger boats teach you about systems and maintenance.

The Merits of Learning to Sail on a Small Boat


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