# Ontario Yachts Viking 33 advice



## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Hello all,

I've had the boat surveyed and the surveyor loved the boat! He said I'd probably be very happy with it and that it was in incredible shape. Very little moisture in the decks, almost none in fact. The only place that showed any cause for concern was up at the bow around the cleat. I plan on adding a windlass so I'll remove the cleat and some more of the deck in that process. I could then let it air out and remove any more of the core as necessary and replace with epoxy or inject some to try and re-laminate if necessary. I could use some advice on adding an anchor roller as the fitting doesn't really leave any accommodation for it...

I, also, plan on replacing the standing and running rigging to start and add a way of handling the mainsail more easily. i.e. dutchman or lazy jacks with some cars added to remove some friction for raising and lowering (mostly lowering).

My next question would be in regard to the mast step. It is my understanding the the original mast step was wooden. My boat has a piece of 6" aluminum channel that was bolted thru the adjacent seat base and bulkhead and lagged to the bilge stringer. The piece of channel is terribly corroded and needs replacing. I was thinking of trying to get a piece of 6" stainless channel and have it machined to the exact likeness of the aluminum and bolt it right back to where it was. I was hoping to get some opinions on the repair.

Thanks for any and all comments and advice in advance!

Humbly,
Danny


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

These are very pretty boats, a classic C&C design and they go upwind very well indeed..somewhat narrow and confined below compared to many others, but a sweet sailing boat just the same.

They are from the extreme era of IOR rigs with a long J measurement and very high aspect short E mains meaning huge kites and genoas.. this can lead to a handful downwind in a breeze if you're not careful about sail selection and apparent wind angles. (the dreaded 'death rolls').

However all this is avoidable if you're careful and keep an eye on a building breeze from behind.

Your plan for the mast step sounds fine - having a metal replacement is already an improvement, and is an indication that she's been looked after. Finding a fabricator to make you a new one at a reasonable price might be a challenge.

She does have a great 'row away' factor!!


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

The main difference between the Viking 33 and Ontario 32 is that the Viking was designed more for racing, while the Ontario is designed for coastal cruising. On the inside, the Viking has a quarter berth, where the Ontario has a nav station. The Ontario has 2 more feet of beam, 2 more inches of headroom, and is 4' 6" draft compared to 6' for the Viking. Also, Ontario usually had a small Yanmar diesel, while the Viking had an Atomic-4 gasoline engine. The Vikings are usually priced lower than the Ontarios,

Though the build quality of my 84 Ontario does not ensure that of a 70's model like the Viking, I would expect it to be well built.

I've made the comparison because both boats were built by Ontario.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

We owned a Viking 28 from the late 60s for 10 years.. little sister to the 33, also a C&C design. One sweet boat too, simple, lacking headroom but therefore still 'pretty', and was a superb platform for us to cut our teeth on and bring our young son into the sailing world (he was 18 days old first time out on her).

We never had any kind of structural issue with the boat, and it sailed nicely in most all conditions. It was, however, a less severe rig with shorter J and longer E relatively speaking and was nicely manageable downwind until it really got snotty.

That boat will always have a special place in our hearts.


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Yea I have much anticipation about this boat. I think once I get the rigging squared away and install the windlass and roller it all cosmetic at that point. i've read all I can find abou the boat and it all seems pretty positive. This is the first I've heard of the 'death roll' situation. I guess the ket to staying out of that is not to sail ddw...

My sailing experience is about 5 years on an O'Day 22 and now I've jumped up this beauty!

I've dropped off the corroded aluminum step and am having one made out of 1/4" stainless. The guy is charging me $125.00 Seemed pretty reasonable to me. I had this same guy do some plate work on the failing transom of a 18' checkmate i used to own. He does great work.

Any thoughts as to how to handle the roller?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

SloopDogg said:


> .....Any thoughts as to how to handle the roller?


Yes the C&C castings for the stem fittings don't leave a lot of space for a conventional add-on anchor roller, the ones available off the shelf generally won't fit without a lot of messing around to level a platform, or boost the base of the roller plate.

Since you've got a good SS fabricator at your disposal (and I agree that's pretty reasonable indeed) maybe you and he can design something that can bolt through the deck and/or casting, and be made to fit over the lip of the casting alongside the forestay, or ideally a double.. something that will offer two rollers by going on either side of the stem/forestay fitting. If you have a furler you may have some interferences to be worried about, but that too is something you may be able to work around.. an extender plate and shortening the foil a bit, perhaps? Gets a bit complicated but there's always a way.

Here's a rather poor pic of something like that.. might be worse than useless, but it's on a V33










Here's another.. rather clunky looking thing:


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

I think you're right...the fabricator...I wonder if i could actually remove the fitting and maybe have a new made all together...the price could be frightening, though. I think I need to look at some newer boats and see how it is handled to get some ideas. As well as how some older boats have handled it.


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## CorvetteGuy (Jun 4, 2011)

I was born and raised on a viking 28, I love the boat,solid build from the good ole days which you don't see anymore. Exellent choice enjoy the ride in a classic.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

From my Ontario 32


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## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

*Nice Boat!*



SloopDogg said:


> Yea I have much anticipation about this boat. I think once I get the rigging squared away and install the windlass and roller it all cosmetic at that point. i've read all I can find abou the boat and it all seems pretty positive. This is the first I've heard of the 'death roll' situation. I guess the ket to staying out of that is not to sail ddw...
> 
> My sailing experience is about 5 years on an O'Day 22 and now I've jumped up this beauty!
> 
> ...


Don't avoid downwind sailing due to a fear of rolling a bit. Just keep in mind that most (although not all) of the early IOR designs had quite a pinched-in stern. Like any boats that are near-to-being-a-double-ender at their water line, they cannot plane off the wind. Knowing that you will not be safely going much over 8 kts off the wind, just dial down your sail area to suite the wind pressure.

There are going to be heavy air days where you can hit a maximum comfortable speed with very little sail up. Be happy with that. It's an OK thing.

There is a pay back when going up wind, though. Those symetrical water lines on the IOR boats let them sail beautifully to weather with minimum helm! _Much_ more fun to drive to weather than some of the fat-a__ boats.

Everything's a compromise...
You have one of the prettier boats on the water. Very High "row away" factor, indeed!


L


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

olson34 said:


> Don't avoid downwind sailing due to a fear of rolling a bit. Just keep in mind that most (although not all) of the early IOR designs had quite a pinched-in stern. Like any boats that are near-to-being-a-double-ender at their water line, they cannot plane off the wind. Knowing that you will not be safely going much over 8 kts off the wind, just dial down your sail area to suite the wind pressure.
> 
> There are going to be heavy air days where you can hit a maximum comfortable speed with very little sail up. Be happy with that. It's an OK thing.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for the advice and the compliment!! The more I look at it the more I love it!! I think the boat found me as much as I found her!!

BTY I'm going to call her Lolita!


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

PBzeer said:


> From my Ontario 32


That looks good. It seems the deck was cut away and a line locker dropped in and then a panel with the windlass added and bolted down. what about that bow fitting?

was that original to the boat?


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## rugosa (Aug 30, 2011)

Standard or tall rig? Ontario offered the tall rig with a tappered mast. They were alodined and clear coated but some owners opted for finished matte black or gloss Awlgrip. All Ontario 32 and Viking 33/33T spars & rigging were built one off by Fritz (he apprentised at Abekking and Rasmussen and passed away last year at 74) & Nick at F & N Yacht Services in Toronto. No doubt the rigging has/will be replaced. F & N was my first full time job, would be great to hear how the rig has endured. Enjoy!


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Well, it is a standard rig. I guess later in the 70s they used a taller rig and called it a Viking 34 with a different keel. Visually the rig looks fine. I just don't know if I can trust it. I know the mast has been down over the last 4-5 years as the boat has been sitting in the yard. I guess I could have it tested. However I wonder what that would cost and is it money better spent on new rigging and removing doubt about condition.

I'm going to try and call Just Rigging today I think.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

The bow fitting is standard, to the best of my knowledge. The area where the windlass is was custom made to replace a piece of stainless steel that had been laid over the delaminated locker lid where the old windlass was mounted. The back half of the lid we just rebuilt.


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Yea that is nice. I have no locker at all. There is a locker at the bow separated by a bulkhead to the V-birth. There really seems to be quite a bit of room up there. I'm not sure how to handle the line just yet. I'm not too keen on the idea of just installing the windlass and allowing all that wet line to simply drop in the bow locker.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

There is a drain for my locker. In the picture you can see where the back of the locker is in the vee berth, while the deep part is in front of the vee berth.


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Well, i finally got the yard to take the mast off of the boat. Boy is she ever pretty. The head room does suffer some, but those lines...wow.

So, moving forward, I'm getting some prices on the rigging. It seems the upper shrouds are newer, the roller furler is newer, therefore, the head-stay is newer. Like maybe within 10 years... The rest seems original. The question now is whether we can reuse the turnbuckles.

Good news is that there is a lazy jack system already installed within the mess that's all wrapped up on the mast.

I'm trying to get the yard to take care of the bottom work as well. There is a bit of a smile at the keel joint and a good biff at the bottom of the keel. That would kind of suggest a hit of some kind.

If I get them to take care of that and get the standing and running rigging done. I have some painting and wiring and tune up the engine.

There is no headliner in the boat and everywhere there is paint, it is peeling. My plan at the moment is to sand and repaint. I'd love some suggestions on that topic. I also plan on cleaning up the wiring. The wiring isn't bad, it is just not organized. Newer wiring, all run hap-hazard but, in good shape. I plan on trying to add some of that split flexible conduit to help clean things up.

I'm also planning on getting a new carb for the engine as she doesn't want to start without starting fluid. I figure I'll buy a new one and rebuild the old one for a spare.

The engine, is an atomic 4 and still raw water cooled. I'm a little nervous about that part of it. I guess there really is no way to tell how corroded the cooling ducts are or how much life is left in the old girl. I'd really rather not have to deal with that this year... I'd convert it over to electronic ignition and add the fresh water cooling but, I'm not sure it is worth the added effort for this year. I feel I have enough to do at this point. I also feel if there is a need to repower in the not to distant future I could do all that then with a new moyer engine. To be honest i really don't do a lot of motoring. Usually just enough to clear the mooring field and get the sails up. That may change a bit for this boat as I'll have to get used the bigger boat and plan on doing a bit of practicing...

Anyway, as always, I look forward to any input!


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

SloopDogg said:


> Well, i finally got the yard to take the mast off of the boat. Boy is she ever pretty. The head room does suffer some, but those lines...wow.


Wow indeed - they are very sleek boats. They are one of the original reasons for the C&C reputation.



> So, moving forward, I'm getting some prices on the rigging. It seems the upper shrouds are newer, the roller furler is newer, therefore, the head-stay is newer. Like maybe within 10 years... The rest seems original. The question now is whether we can reuse the turnbuckles.


Just examine all the rigging bits you have questions about. Look at the swages under high magnification to check for cracks. Wrap some tissue around the wire and slide it the full length - any meathooks will snag some paper and mark themselves. (REAL men do it barehanded - the blood marks the spots. ). The turnbuckles should be fine if they are open barrel style, the threads are good and nothing is bent. They don't "wear out" like wire and swages. A lot of the deck hardware on those boats was chromed bronze as well - the turnbuckles could be if they are originals.



> There is no headliner in the boat and everywhere there is paint, it is peeling. My plan at the moment is to sand and repaint. I'd love some suggestions on that topic.


Use routine, good prep practices and paint with quality "Bath & Kitchen" acrylic paint. It contains mildewcides and so forth for life in damp environs. Use semi-gloss, not high gloss. It looks better and hides imperfections better.

I'd recommend off white of some shade, as opposed to a pure white - the pure, bright whites look rather institutional below decks IMHO. "Vanilla" or "Oyster" or "French white" tones are more subdued and look well with teak.

DO NOT waste money on "marine" paint for interior use. The expensive components in it - UV filters, abrasion resistance etc. serve no purpose below decks.



> I also plan on cleaning up the wiring. The wiring isn't bad, it is just not organized. Newer wiring, all run hap-hazard but, in good shape. I plan on trying to add some of that split flexible conduit to help clean things up.


Good idea - it makes a big difference. Using the coloured conduit adds a bit of dash and visibility over plain black.



> I'm also planning on getting a new carb for the engine as she doesn't want to start without starting fluid. I figure I'll buy a new one and rebuild the old one for a spare.
> 
> The engine, is an atomic 4 and still raw water cooled. I'm a little nervous about that part of it. I guess there really is no way to tell how corroded the cooling ducts are or how much life is left in the old girl. I'd really rather not have to deal with that this year... I'd convert it over to electronic ignition and add the fresh water cooling but, I'm not sure it is worth the added effort for this year. I feel I have enough to do at this point. I also feel if there is a need to repower in the not to distant future I could do all that then with a new moyer engine. To be honest i really don't do a lot of motoring. Usually just enough to clear the mooring field and get the sails up. That may change a bit for this boat as I'll have to get used the bigger boat and plan on doing a bit of practicing...
> 
> Anyway, as always, I look forward to any input!


Pull of all the external pieces of the cooling system and look inside as best you can - you might be able to rent a borescope and have a look in deeper. If the block is decent, spend the money for the full Moyer or Indigo upgrade - electronic distributor, fresh cooling, oil filtration - even though it's only a bypass system, it's better than none. PCV system etc. With all that done, that little engine will run as reliably as a diesel and quieter. As a bonus, all the upgrades will cost $hundreds or maybe dip into 4 figures, not go way into 5 figures like a diesel conversion will.


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Thanks SloopJonB



SloopJonB said:


> Wow indeed - they are very sleek boats. They are one of the original reasons for the C&C reputation.


I really can't wait to see floating and get the real image of her. Most of all I'm very excited about sailing her. I'm imagining quite an experience!!!



SloopJonB said:


> Just examine all the rigging bits you have questions about. Look at the swages under high magnification to check for cracks. Wrap some tissue around the wire and slide it the full length - any meathooks will snag some paper and mark themselves. (REAL men do it barehanded - the blood marks the spots. ). The turnbuckles should be fine if they are open barrel style, the threads are good and nothing is bent. They don't "wear out" like wire and swages. A lot of the deck hardware on those boats was chromed bronze as well - the turnbuckles could be if they are originals.


LOL, I'll stick to the tissue paper idea! I noticed just Sunday that the turnbuckles looked like bronze. Of course most of the chrome is gone. The are, apparently, a heavy cast, open barrel, type.



SloopJonB said:


> Use routine, good prep practices and paint with quality "Bath & Kitchen" acrylic paint. It contains mildewcides and so forth for life in damp environs. Use semi-gloss, not high gloss. It looks better and hides imperfections better.
> 
> I'd recommend off white of some shade, as opposed to a pure white - the pure, bright whites look rather institutional below decks IMHO. "Vanilla" or "Oyster" or "French white" tones are more subdued and look well with teak.
> 
> DO NOT waste money on "marine" paint for interior use. The expensive components in it - UV filters, abrasion resistance etc. serve no purpose below decks.


This is good advice and I had wondered if an interior paint would do. Then, I started to think about either trying to cover the whole thing in some sort of a weave type fabric or covering. Then thought, that sounds like a lot of work. So, I was beginning to lead toward a 2 part epoxy paint. However, I do hate to waste money but, I hate wasting time even more. I was thinking about durability. Something i could do once and then only need to clean from then on.

I'll have to put more thought into this.



SloopJonB said:


> Good idea - it makes a big difference. Using the coloured conduit adds a bit of dash and visibility over plain black.


Yea, definately, one for sound system one for lights and so forthm makes perfect sense.



SloopJonB said:


> Pull of all the external pieces of the cooling system and look inside as best you can - you might be able to rent a borescope and have a look in deeper. If the block is decent, spend the money for the full Moyer or Indigo upgrade - electronic distributor, fresh cooling, oil filtration - even though it's only a bypass system, it's better than none. PCV system etc. With all that done, that little engine will run as reliably as a diesel and quieter. As a bonus, all the upgrades will cost $hundreds or maybe dip into 4 figures, not go way into 5 figures like a diesel conversion will.


Hell it seems a brand new moyer with all those upgrades would easily be 1/2 the cost of a diesel conversion. I guess if I do upgrade all that stuff I could always do a short block upgrade and reuse it all in future if necessary. If I do get a look up into the block, how am I to tell it's condition. I read somewhere to fill it with a vinegar solution to help remove scale. The whole thing does work right now as we started the engine during the survey and used a bucket of water for cooling water and it pumped it through.

I guess the thing works now and if I do the fresh water cooling upgrade it will prolong the life of the engine no matter what its condition, right? As long as it isn't leaking the conversion could essentially stop any further corrosion I would imagine. I wonder if I can get a discount if I buy all the upgrades in one shot...

I think dumping a grand into the engine to gain some peace of mind is well worth it. I bought a brand new 9.8hp outboard for the O'day 22 for that very reason. that was $2,000...

BTW know anyone interested in an O'Day 22 turn key package? LOL


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

SloopDogg said:


> LOL, I'll stick to the tissue paper idea! I noticed just Sunday that the turnbuckles looked like bronze. Of course most of the chrome is gone. The are, apparently, a heavy cast, open barrel, type.


That's what mine were - I sanded off the remaining chrome and then polished them up with a buffing wheel and some sticks of abrasive polish. They came out looking like gold (for a while anyway. )



> This is good advice and I had wondered if an interior paint would do. Then, I started to think about either trying to cover the whole thing in some sort of a weave type fabric or covering. Then thought, that sounds like a lot of work. So, I was beginning to lead toward a 2 part epoxy paint. However, I do hate to waste money but, I hate wasting time even more. I was thinking about durability. Something i could do once and then only need to clean from then on. I'll have to put more thought into this.


The cabintops of those boats are so "roundy" that putting up any kind of fabric would be like trying to upholster a football. I'd stick with paint, at least for the overhead. As for the paint, I followed my own advice  on my last boat and it lasted just fine for nine years. Gave it a good scrubbing before listing it and the broker was very complimentary about its appearance.



> Hell it seems a brand new moyer with all those upgrades would easily be 1/2 the cost of a diesel conversion. I guess if I do upgrade all that stuff I could always do a short block upgrade and reuse it all in future if necessary. If I do get a look up into the block, how am I to tell it's condition. I read somewhere to fill it with a vinegar solution to help remove scale. The whole thing does work right now as we started the engine during the survey and used a bucket of water for cooling water and it pumped it through.
> 
> I guess the thing works now and if I do the fresh water cooling upgrade it will prolong the life of the engine no matter what its condition, right? As long as it isn't leaking the conversion could essentially stop any further corrosion I would imagine. I wonder if I can get a discount if I buy all the upgrades in one shot...
> 
> I think dumping a grand into the engine to gain some peace of mind is well worth it. I bought a brand new 9.8hp outboard for the O'day 22 for that very reason. that was $2,000...


I think you see the logic of the A4. As to checking its internal condition, you can't really tell if it's getting thin in places without doing some kind of sonic testing. What you can tell is if it is crudded up with scale and deposits in the water jackets. Looking at the state of the thermostat housing etc. will give you some idea of the state of any corrosion. Hardly a guaranteed test but should show up any serious problems. Also, don't forget to include the overall state of the exterior of the engine - that will tell you if it was neglected or cared for as well. If you want to get into it a bit more before making an expensive decision, pull the cylinder head. It's an extremely simple thing to do on a flathead and will only cost a head gasket and some time.


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Oh and another thing I need advice on is a boarding ladder. I can't believe it but the boat currently doesn't have one. I feel it a necessity to have really good boarding ladder and I love some recommendations.


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Just wanted to add a picture...


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Okay, It turns out I'll need new sails for my boat.

The sails are all from the early 70s. It turns out there is a very light 150% Genny in "okay" shape but needs some help. could cost me $400 and it is still old but seems like it hasn't seen a lot of use.

The main is shot, no hope. Thurston is going to quote me a new main and a new #2 135% head sail.

There is also a #3 Jib 

and a 2nd, heavier #1 about 140% to 150% that has had mice living in the bag with it.

He is also going to have another look to see if I can get another season out of one of the head sails.

I'd love some advice or suggestions. I imagine it is better to buy a new sail than to dump $300 into a sail for one year. Maybe not...I could look for used I guess.

I got sails for my O'Day 22 from porpoise sails for a real cheap price. He sold me a new main and used Genny for like $550

I'll try him again.

But seeing as I'll have to do this, is there anything I should be thinking about as an upgrade to make my life sailing easier. The boat has a relatively new roller furler and Lazy jacks. I have no main sail cover.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

SloopDogg said:


> Okay, It turns out I'll need new sails for my boat.
> 
> The sails are all from the early 70s. It turns out there is a very light 150% Genny in "okay" shape but needs some help. could cost me $400 and it is still old but seems like it hasn't seen a lot of use.
> 
> ...


For jibs & spinnakers, I'd check the used sail sites on the web - Bacons, Minneys, Second Wind etc - there's lots of them. It's possible but unlikely that you'll be able to find a good main but they have a huge variety of jibs & spinnakers in all shapes, sizes & ages. Even the best ones are 1/2 or less of new cost.


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Okay, so the saga continues.

Today's question;

She has a smile.... there is also an 
abrasion at the bottom of the keel. It think it may have been 
grounded. I think it mat have even happen while on the hard...the 
abrasion on the bottom has not been painted over and the rest of the 
bottom paint is in good shape with the exception of that smile. I'm 
told the boat was on the hard at the PO's son-in-law's yard. them 
moved to its current location and probably moved around there a bit in 
the years it has been stored. Anyway, I'm going to have this stuff 
repaired but I'm wondering if I should drop the keel and inspect the 
bolts. I know it is probably not an easy job but, probably not all 
that difficult either. It is just that the entire joint seems to 
need ground out and while the joint is already open, would it make 
sense to inspect the bolts? It just seems to me you could put a floor 
jack under it loosen the bolts enough to peer in with a light and see 
if there is anything horrible going on in there. What do you guys think. The surveyor suggested simply
fixing the joint. Its just the more I think about it, an inspection
shouldn't be too much extra work. Am I off base here? Danny


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

While an inspection would be well advised I suspect the keel may not obligingly 'drop' as easy as that, depending on what was used as a bedding compound previously. OTOH you might get lucky. Be careful about where the jack stands are installed, you'll be taking the entire weight of the boat on them for at least part of the time.

The extreme slope of the V33 keel will make 'blocking it with a floor jack' somewhat more problematic than a Peterson type fin.. that may complicate things a bit since you want the keel to come straight down, not rotate down.

As I'm sure you've gathered the 'smile' is not unusual. If you decide to simply clean out the seams and reseal I understand West's G-flex epoxy has had good results in this area. (used it myself last spring, will check next haul)

Good luck!


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Faster said:


> While an inspection would be well advised I suspect the keel may not obligingly 'drop' as easy as that, depending on what was used as a bedding compound previously. OTOH you might get lucky. Be careful about where the jack stands are installed, you'll be taking the entire weight of the boat on them for at least part of the time.
> 
> The extreme slope of the V33 keel will make 'blocking it with a floor jack' somewhat more problematic than a Peterson type fin.. that may complicate things a bit since you want the keel to come straight down, not rotate down.
> 
> ...


IIRC, those Vikings had their keels epoxied on. I vaguely recall a story (Pacific Yachting?) about one of them going on the rocks in Porlier back in the day and the bent keel had to be sawn off.

Probably best to ensure the nuts are tight and then fill the smile.


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

SloopJonB said:


> IIRC, those Vikings had their keels epoxied on. I vaguely recall a story (Pacific Yachting?) about one of them going on the rocks in Porlier back in the day and the bent keel had to be sawn off.
> 
> Probably best to ensure the nuts are tight and then fill the smile.


Thats exactly what I plan to do...or, actually, have the yard do. I finally got a guy on the phone who got me on the schedule to fix the smile and paint the bottom for about $800-$900.

At least that takes one project off my list.

I've gone ahead and ordered sails from Thurston for about $4700. I could have saved money buying on line but, as best I could tell there was a quality difference in the details. I met with Steve Thurston who walked me through the whole sail, pointing out all the details they've added over the years.

I'm, hopefully, going to get down to the yard on Saturday and strip the mast to take all the rigging over to rigging only. I should be able to save a few bucks there as apposed to having someone strip and install.

After that I have to get inside the boat and take care of all the peeling paint, clean the bilge and install the new mast step. It is beginning to feel like I'm not going to get the windlass installed this year. I guess I could install it and just not have the line tuck neatly away in a locker. That will be a majority of the work as there is no locker now. I'd still have to deal with the line I would just not have to lug it all up by hand. And given the recent shoulder surgery, It's probably a good idea!

Any one have any good ideas for handling anchor line without a locker?

Danny


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Great looking boat. Very C&Cish 

You can pay to have the smile "fixed" but I feel you may be wasting your money. It will return the next time you haul, or maybe even when they lift the boat.

Torque the keel bolts to spec.
Sand the smile to remove all the bottom paint (but not barrier coat, if there is any) to about 3/4 inch around the smile.
Tape it off.
Run a bead of 3M 4200 over the smile and use a spreader to even it off like a big bandaid.
Bottom paint as usual.

This will allow for a little flexing under the bottom paint. Next time at haul out you will still have the smile but it will probably be just a very thin crack in the bottom paint.

If the keel is swept back like many older C&C designs, be sure that the keel is blocked properly.

It may be the lever action of the weight on the aft section of the keel that causes it to flex a tiny bit when the boat is lifted or set down. On my boat a faint smile would return after bottom painting when the boat was lifted for launch (the swept back keel acting as a lever when the force of the hull was removed and the weight of the keel added at liftoff).


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Okay, so all this sitting around waiting for my shoulder to heal has me now looking for an auto pilot. I considered a wind vane system but, I'm going to put that off for now. Mostly due to cost but, I don't think I'll need something like that quite yet. I've still got some coastal cruising to do before heading out to open sea!! LOL

Any, would love some advice. I'm looking at the: 

Raymarine SmartPilot X-5 Wheel Autopilot $1139 + shipping
For yachts displacing up to 16,500lbs (7,500kg)
Includes ST6002 Control Head, MkII wheel-drive
Built-in Gyro Sensor with Advanced Steering Technology

And the OCTOPUS Type RS Sailboat Drive Has caught my eye. I would need a control head as well so the cost would be about $1150 + the control head. I think this would be a tougher install as well as it is below deck.

Anyone have any opinions?


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Okay, so A quick update....I ran into some pretty awful issues with the atomic 4. The PO let the raw water pump leak all over the back of the engine and engine compartment. It turned the back of the engine into an unrecognizable blob of rust. After wire brushing and cleaning all the bolts, about 8 of them, in that area look more like rivets. I had no way of removing the existing pump without lots and lots of hours trying to mess with and old rusted out engine. Who knows what else It would have revealed if ever did get the bolts out....

Anyway, I ordered an exchange engine from Moyer. It is, supposed to be, going into the boat yesterday. But when I called they needed to "check on it." We all know what that means!

Anyway, I'm finally at a point where i'll be putting things back together!!! Adding the fresh water cooling, and new raw water strainers, wiring up the new whale gusher pumps, I'm using as bilge pumps, and getting some paint on all the areas I had to sand (the whole inside of the boat) the crap out of... I'm thinking a launch in about 3 more weeks... Painful, but not horrible and I'll have all new everything important. Sails, Standing rigging, motor, bilge pumps. Anyone have any advice for batteries?

the battle rages on!


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## HalfHourEarly (Jul 5, 2012)

Just wanted to check to see how things worked out with your new Atomic 4 and Sails. I have a red Viking 33 like yours and they are very nice boats to look at and to sail. 

I have gone through all of the things you have  
- Fixed the Smile with West System and barrier coat and faired their fairing compound. (lasts pretty good and just needs occasional touch-ups.)
- Gradually clearing up the wiring tangles
- Added pressure water.
- Added a Moyer Atomic 4 last year.
- Painted the ceiling. (I did pay more for marine grade but it's not a job I ever wanted to redo.)
- Replaced scratched & leaky windows (reused the frames)
- Replaced the engine shaft (bent. I have no idea how).
- Cleaned up and repacked the suffing box & replaced the rubber tube & clamps.
- lots more little things

These are great boats and ours races very well against similar boats and even beats some of the newer ones when we get a good blow. The boat comes to life when the wind gets over 18 knots. 

One other issue to tackle over time is the through-deck hardware. there will be some water incursion and it's a good idea to get ahead of it when you get some time. I had some minor water incursion on the main sheet traveller, genoa travellers and teak hand rail. I'm sure their are others but I'm just tackling them one at a time and they are not big jobs to rebed if you catch them early.

How did you sails work out? I am shopping now for a Main and a 130%. 

Also, I have a crack in one of my aft shroud swadge fittings. has anyone had any experience with mechanical replacement fittings. I don't want to send it out if I can replace the swadge with mechanical.

Steve


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Hi Steve,

Well, I'm not launched yet...I've got the motor in and have added the Indigo thermostat kit, fresh water cooling kit and the PCV valve kit. Man did I use up a lot of hose clamps!

I've still got to wire it up.

I have reset all the deck hardware around the bow. It was wet up there in the core so I removed all the hardware and let it sit for a over 3 months covered by a tarp. Then, I did the whole, ream out the core around the penetrations and epoxy plug and re-drill it all. I actually just re-set all the hardware yesterday. The bow sprit stanchion bases, pad eye, cleat and bollard.

It was nice to have that done! I also re-set all the hardware along the transome, Stern rail stanchion bases, 2-new vents, flag pole holder and back stay escutcheon. Like you say, I plan to tackle the rest a little more slowly.

I did return to the boat on Saturday after a pretty stormy week with lots of rain and she was bone dry inside. I was happy to see that!

I also installed two new bilge pumps. I placed the pumps high and dry in the port cabinet and ran hoses to the sump outside the head and one a couple feet in front of the engine. I used a couple of whale gulpers for the task and put a float switch in the sump. The aft one I'll use a manual switch when needed.

I did get the whole interior sanded and ready for paint but, have yet to actually paint it. I did get a "nice job" from the admiral on it yesterday!

I'm having the yard wash and wax the topsides and paint the bottom this week. I also had them fair the keel joint.

As far as the sails, they are ready and waiting for me to launch! I went with Thurston Sails and they treated me well I feel, and the 15% boat show discount had them beating all the local competition's prices.

I replaced all the standing rigging but, the rigger said the halyards were all fine. I'll re-use them this year and replace over the winter.

I also replaced the mast head light and steaming/deck light. I still have a bit of buttoning up there but, should be able to knock that out pretty quickly.

Wiring?? Man, I must have pulled a mile of dead wire out of her. Just cut and left lying at both ends. That alone made a HUGE difference in trying sort the spaghetti out!

So, Hopefully, next week we'll be floating at least!

Thanks for checking in!!!! I'd love to see some pics of your boat. I'm in regular communication with another guy with a red Viking 33 named Ketchup. He's been a wealth of info, insights, and advice! I think my Lolita is so much the better off for my conversations with him.

Here is a link to a pic my engine compartment taken Saturday;
http://sdrv.ms/P22Z5s

There are a bunch of other shots in there too but they're all just bunched in there. They are chronologically ordered from the day we first looked at it through the whole process.

I figure it is always fun the look at pics of old sailboats during their restoration. I'm going to put a slideshow together of that engine compartment!

All the best!
Danny


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## HalfHourEarly (Jul 5, 2012)

Here's a pic from our town's website. I'll post a couple of better ones shortly.

Bay Roberts Marina | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

yours must be a 1974? you have 2 lower shrouds on each side... I only have one on mine.

She looks beautiful! Nice, shiny, red hull


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## HalfHourEarly (Jul 5, 2012)

Thanks

The hull was pink with oxide when I got it. I used McGuire's Professional Swirl Remover and a buffer for about 2 days and it was like a new boat. That stuff is amazing. I believe mine is a 1975 but I can't even remember.

You mentioned that you were fixing the C&C Smile. When I did mine I also torqued the keel bolts. I did not have the Viking 33 specs so I used this table for similar C&C models:

Keel Bolt Torques

I actually got a couple of turns on some of them.

Steve


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

I didn't have a 300 ft lb torque wrench so, I had the yard do it. They also faired the keel joint for me.

I just may be launched next week!!


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

I just put a little list together of my updates and repairs for this year...

Geeze;
New Sails
New Standing riging
New Bilge pumps
New Complete Engine
New Fresh water cooling
Reset bow deck harware
reset transom hardware with 2-new vents
canvass all serviced and cleaned
running rigging inspected and found to be fine
replaced coroded and broken thru hull valves
freed up all other valves and checked for operation
New Prop Shaft
New stuffing box hose, clamps and stuffing
New cutlass bearing
Cleaned up all dead wiring
Sanded all interior paint (ready for painiting)


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

I finally remembered how to embed photos!

Here she is





Here is the old engine





Here is how the new engine looks currently





I kept the old alternator


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Very nice job - looks better than factory new. 

One quick observation - in the top left of the third photo you have a woven reinforced hose - looks like it comes from a strainer - it looks like it has a bit of a kink in it. I noticed because I just read Tim Lackey's update about replacing some new hose that looks like yours for that very reason - he changed to some similar hose that had wire in it as well as fabric reinforcing.


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

hmmm...Thanks for the compliment!

I think it is a bit elongated but, I don't think it is kinked. I'll be sure to double check that though! It is a bit oversized as well. It is taking in the cooling raw water so at least it won't soften up and become more pliable...


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Hey, I have another question. I repacked the stuffing box and used Graphtex 
Ultra shaft packing. My stuffing box has a cap reservoir type grease fitting.

do I...;
a. need to grease the fitting?

b. if so, do I just stuff some white lithium marine grease into it as best I can and then 
fill the cap with it and screw it together?






Obviously that pic is before the new engine situation...


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Another question....

Is this Positive block, just that a positive block or is it something more?


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## francist (May 28, 2007)

Re your Atomic 4 engine:
The amount of rust/corrosion internally in a raw water cooled engine is largely related to whether the engine has spent its life in fresh or salt water. An original A4 in any salt water boat of this age is already usually on borrowed time. A fresh water cooled unit had much better prospects for conversion to closed cooling at this age. Also an engine in fresh water or with closed cooling can run a hotter thermostat for less engine wear and better fuel economy.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

SloopDogg said:


> Another question....
> 
> Is this Positive block, just that a positive block or is it something more?


Sloop... just saw this as the thread was awakened.. looks like a shunt for an ammeter or battery monitor of some sort. If so, it creates a precise voltage drop to infer current passing by that point. The only thing is that they are normally installed on the return, not the hot side.


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Faster said:


> Sloop... just saw this as the thread was awakened.. looks like a shunt for an ammeter or battery monitor of some sort. If so, it creates a precise voltage drop to infer current passing by that point. The only thing is that they are normally installed on the return, not the hot side.


HM...I basically put it back the way it was. seems to be working fine!

I actually got to go sailing on her at the end of the season. Had some pretty hair raising adventures!

She does handle well though!


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

SloopDogg said:


> I actually got to go sailing on her at the end of the season. Had some pretty hair raising adventures!
> 
> She does handle well though!


Great news! We're just winding up a bit of a project ourselves, feels good to get to the point of having a sailable boat again.


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

yea, I can't wait till next year!! Now i"m looking for a better way to cover her for the winter so it is easier to access for winter work.


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

francist said:


> Re your Atomic 4 engine:
> The amount of rust/corrosion internally in a raw water cooled engine is largely related to whether the engine has spent its life in fresh or salt water. An original A4 in any salt water boat of this age is already usually on borrowed time. A fresh water cooled unit had much better prospects for conversion to closed cooling at this age. Also an engine in fresh water or with closed cooling can run a hotter thermostat for less engine wear and better fuel economy.


Yea I went straight to an enclosed cooling system with the rebuilt engine. I'm running it about 170 degrees with the Idigo thermostat housing kit. She runs great!


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Hello All,

I'm awakening this thread again! A new season and now it is like a normal old sailboat. I have some cosmetics to do. 

Actually I had to spend an afternoon replacing ALL the SS hose clamps I bought from the auto parts store. They were simply rusting and snapping off where the worm drive meets the band... It started happening just weeks after installation. I bought the REALLY expensive ones from defender at the end of the season last year. I'm glad thats done.

Currently I'm making new handrails for the cabin top. I had them both made and just as I started finish sanding one slipped off the table and frakin' broke! There was a knot there and though it seemed solid...No knots are good knots. So, I've got as far as cutting the loops out and still need to route it and shape it and sand it... I thought I would be coating this week but, no dice!

I also bought a new hatch. The old one is a bomar with a broken hinge and missing lock knob and parts are all but impossible to find. The lens looks in pretty good shape though...

I also need to install the auto pilot I bought last year and I got new tack tick wireless wind depth speed instruments.

It looks like I won't have the windlass installed this year... I guess I'll be renting moorings all season...LOL I have a nice Rocna anchor but I'm not real keen on hauling that up by myself. I thought of installing it without a rode locker and handle the line on deck but, I'm basically a single hander with guest/s so, I'm not sure how practical that will be. I know it isn't a good idea to retrieve the anchor on the windlass alone.

All the best,


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Nice to hear from you again, and get the update.. thanks.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Hey, guys...I'm the owner of a 1973 Viking 33, hull no. 32. While she's rather appallingly original in some respects (think brown plaid upholstery), I've made several fixes over the years, including a rebuilt Atomic 4, new standing rigging, and a few other fixes.










My blog is mostly about rebuilding my other, steel sailboat for extended cruising, but the Viking is the boat I sail when I can spare the time, and she's a bit of a test bed for stuff I want to do in the larger boat.










Anyone with Viking 33 questions, feel free to drop me a line at my blog, as I rarely post here these days.


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Wow What a great Photo!! I think we've emailed once or twice. You're friends with my buddy Dan who sails Ketchup!

Dan has been an invaluable source of advice, inspiration and information!!!

I've finally got around to coating the new handrails and running all the wiring for the new electronics and installed the hatch. Got come polishing in while the handrails are off. What difference a sheen makes!!

By the way, WHAT is that bow fitting??!!


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## fast2tack (Jan 2, 2013)

Viking 33/34's were built on the corner of Spears and Woody Place in Oakville Ontario.
I remember touring the manufacturing facility in the early 1970's.
Good looking boats then.....and now.


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Okay, Had the bottom stripped, barrier coated and bottom painted. I also had them redo the bootstripe. Wow she looks great!










You can see my new handrails from last year!


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Just updating here...

So the yard bent my shaft and broke my strut and told me the stut broke from a stress fracture after they hauled it out. Yea right!

Anyway, I had them fix and the billed me...

I also had them do the bottom job above. 

So last week of may I get launched, they left my boat a Fk'n mess with the sandblast material and footprints. i complained and made them wash it.

I go to take it off the dock and to my mooring and she is vibrating so horribly the dock kid saw the rig shaking. I couldn;t even keep her in gear because the friction was boggong the A4 down to almost a stall.

Than they say "its your prop" I say "really? I think you guys bent the shaft and broke my strut at haul out." He says. "I'll stake my 46 years in the business that it is your prop. I say "okay then," I put my money where my mouth is and order the Indigo Prop and say, "put this on" They do and guess what, still vibrating.... Then FINALLY they say, "we have to haul it and remove the shaft it is the only true and fair way to assess the issue and check that shaft" I say "great, lets go"

Sure enough the shaft was bent, the Yard has owned the responsibility and we were re-launched last friday.

I was having idling issues with the A4 so i had installed a rebuilt Carb and she idles great, like never before. I kept the Idigo prop and I have to say, she has never ran so well. I've gone from the slowest under power of 5 knots to under 3 knots and a cruse speed of 5 knots with very little effort and probably could get up over 6.

We took her out for her first sail of the year on Sunday and it was spectacular! we had 15 knots and a couple of guest. I rolled out the head sail and let run go. It was just daysailing. She was hitting 7 knots thru the water with just the head sail at 100%. So, I was happy with the easy sailing and just kept at that and we were all very happy!

This boat is truly amazing! I can't wait to get back out there. She is finally mechanically sound! New engine, cutlass bearing, stuffing, shaft and prop. New standing rigging, new sails and she is a dream to sail! It was really a great day! I sailed home wanting to stay out I think for the first time ever. All our journeys seem to have been plagued with issues and lots of stress for me. But, I think she is really good order now!

Now, we did change her name while on the hard before her first launch in many years (our first launch). However, we never christened her with champagne. So, before we went anywhere on her to motor around and move out the mooring on Saturday, we picked up a couple of bottles of bubbly. I cracked one over the bow fitting and said "I christen thee the Lolita, God Bless Lolita!" I then popped the other one and poured some across the bow and all around her into the water! A little on the late side but, I'm hoping I appeased the sea Gods! LOL It was actually a fun little ceremony! If the weekend on the boat was any indication, I'd say our bases are covered!


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## PBezanson (Sep 21, 2014)

I lost my spar for my 1974 Viking 33. Wondering if anyone would know where to get one, used or new.


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## Thomm225 (Jun 9, 2011)

SloopDogg said:


> Okay, so A quick update....I ran into some pretty awful issues with the atomic 4. The PO let the raw water pump leak all over the back of the engine and engine compartment. It turned the back of the engine into an unrecognizable blob of rust. After wire brushing and cleaning all the bolts, about 8 of them, in that area look more like rivets. I had no way of removing the existing pump without lots and lots of hours trying to mess with and old rusted out engine. Who knows what else It would have revealed if ever did get the bolts out....
> 
> Anyway, I ordered an exchange engine from Moyer. It is, supposed to be, going into the boat yesterday. But when I called they needed to "check on it." We all know what that means!
> 
> the battle rages on!


So how's your Atomic 4 engine from Moyers holding up?

I considering a Viking 33 also #41 that will definitely need a replacement A4 engine.


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## SloopDogg (Mar 4, 2010)

Thomm225 said:


> SloopDogg said:
> 
> 
> > So how's your Atomic 4 engine from Moyers holding up?
> ...


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