# Architecture Student outsider to sailing. Hello and help me please?



## asksteevs (Aug 27, 2012)

Hey BW Sailing community,

I am TOTALLY new to the sailing world and have a somewhat unorthodox request for anyone willing to oblige me.

I'm an architecture student at Montana State University and we are doing a design studio based in San Francisco this semester. We're doing a sailing-themed project and our professor has suggested we look into BW Sailing, Sail, and other magazines as a possible resource.

Now I've always been a distant admirer of sailing in general, but like I say have practically no knowledge of it. I'm wondering if anyone out there would be willing to loan/sell a stack of old issues of a magazine you suggest so I don't sound like an idiot when I talk about sailing all this semester. I would just subscribe but time is too short and I need the info as soon as possible.

I'm also interested in any info you may have on the 'critical' introductory reading to be able to talk about/design something around sailing.

I really appreciate your consideration and hope you all can be willing to afford an 'outsider' a peek into your noble sport/craft/pastime/lifestyle that is sailing.

Thanks!

Steve


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I've got some old sailing magazines but it would not be worth it to ship them to you.

Really, the best way to begin any understanding about sailboats is to learn the language of sailing. There are lots of places on the web you can start learning from right now.

Big and small boat rigging basics: http://www.glen-l.com/free-book/rigging-small-sailboats.htm

The same place also sells plans/designs for boats you can make yourself: Build Your Own Boat

Here are some more advanced concepts that are affected by design: Helm Balance - Center of Effort, Lateral Resistance, Centerboard, Mast Rake - Waves « Jordan Yacht Brokerage

Some of the (still) existing boat makers who might tout their composite (fiberglass) boat building technology:
BENETEAU USA - Sailboats & Powerboats
Yachts and boats for sale - Catalina Yachts
Hunter Marine is now Marlow-Hunter

if you can sift through their marketing hype. Some may still offer factory tours.

Then there are a bunch of magazines that are online.

Good luck.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Very basic, but covers the subject matter. Wife used this to learn.

Amazon.com: Fast Track to Cruising: How to Go from Novice to Cruise-Ready in Seven Days (9780071406727): Steve Colgate, Doris Colgate: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@51GW5nhBArL


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

asksteevs said:


> Hey BW Sailing community,
> 
> I am TOTALLY new to the sailing world and have a somewhat unorthodox request for anyone willing to oblige me.
> 
> ...


From your post I am assuming you are actually in San Francisco. If so, you might contact some of the local yacht clubs--St. Frances, Golden Gate, Sausalito, particularly the Richmond YC etc., explain your needs to the Clubs' managers/Secretaries, and you'll likely be given access to their Libraries. Moreover, many of the Clubs have members that are part of the local design professional community and I suspect that any number of them would be helpful with information and worthwhile contacts in future. (You can also, of course, go to the local Public Library where you will find many of the publications you might use.)

FWIW...


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## asksteevs (Aug 27, 2012)

Thank you guys for your replies and the resources. I really appreciate your time. While I've got your attention, what kind of potential can you see in a possible architecture project? I mean this will all be hypothetical this semester but what kind of facilities/venue could you see a potential need for in the industry? Some kind of super-marina? Sailing school or outreach center? I dunno I guess what could you see coming out of collaboration between architecture and sailing?

Thanks again.


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

asksteevs said:


> Thank you guys for your replies and the resources. I really appreciate your time. While I've got your attention, what kind of potential can you see in a possible architecture project? I mean this will all be hypothetical this semester but what kind of facilities/venue could you see a potential need for in the industry? Some kind of super-marina? Sailing school or outreach center? I dunno I guess what could you see coming out of collaboration between architecture and sailing?
> 
> Thanks again.


When I was in Arch graduate school, we were confronted with a design problem that involved developing a design for a waterfront resort/sailing facility to be situated in Belize in an environmentally fragile reef area. My design proposal was based upon something I observed while walking along the beach-front with my wife as the surf rolled in and...Bucky Balls...as, at the time, Buckminster Fuller and his design concepts were all the rage (think Epcot).

Think about it...


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

The choice of San Francisco for your sailing/architecture project at this point in history is significant since it will be the site of the next America's Cup.

But as a practicing architect myself, I think that you have a wide range of influences when approaching a design dealing with the interface of sailing and architecture.

Your project can explore the intersection of land and water:


How should a building touch the water?
How much should the building seem to connect with the natural world, and how much should the building provide a sense of enclosure and protection from the elements?
Do you literally bring open water into the building or have places below the surface were you can feel like the building has been brought into the sea? Should the edges feel purposely solid and man-made, or should the be softer and of nature, or something that expresses both?
Then there is sailing itself: 
Sailing stands on a threshold which links many disciplines: 

Bridging a world of being physically demanding and athletic, with 
 The world of science: both physics, (harmonics, materials, hydro- and aerodynamics) and natural (meterology, biological) 
 Linking into a world of the every changing aethetic, 
 Supported by a world of mechanics and engineering. 
 Deriving from a world of commerce transportation and the implication of voyaging using renewable resources and the psychology of implied links to an outside world beyond the horizon. 
 And inextricably connected to the recreation.
In a city like San Francisco you have the chance to interpret a wide range of issues: 

The historic context of the city itself with its historic architecture and vertical scale, the wide canyon that forms the Bay. 
The way that the very location of San Fransisco derives from the connection between the sea and the continent beyond. 
The various cultures which have chosen to arrive at its shores both ancient and modern.
This is a very rich assignment, you should need us to pick a use.....

Soar and enjoy....
Jeff


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

asksteevs said:


> ... what kind of potential can you see in a possible architecture project? I mean this will all be hypothetical this semester but what kind of facilities/venue could you see a potential need for in the industry? Some kind of super-marina?


Well, since you're talking hypothetical...

You know how some people build really long and tall garages with doors at either end to pull in an RV? I think it'd be cool to have a house over the water with part of it tall enough to be an enclosed slip for a sailboat. I would like to walk out of my kitchen, through the mud room and step onto the boat without seeing the sky, load my gear and pull forward and sail away.

We don't need more super marinas. We need houses you can sail through.

Best of luck with your project. It sounds like fun.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

You may want to read/contact/study SN's own Bob Perry as he is a legendary yacht designer....


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## asksteevs (Aug 27, 2012)

svHyLyte said:


> From your post I am assuming you are actually in San Francisco.


Unfortunately not... I'm in good old Bozeman, MT. We're coming down for one week this month and the whole semester will be based off of that trip. I still appreciate the tips though, may give me places to check out...

Thanks!


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

aeventyr60 said:


> You may want to read/contact/study SN's own Bob Perry as he is a legendary yacht designer....


I am glad I wasn't the only one who thought "Boat Architecture." Everyone else is thinking buildings/marinas. While Boat architecture is a whole other animal. I suppose I'd want to know "which is it?"

In which case I agree Bob Perry, WDShock, or Jim Lee, or any one of the other boat designers lurking around here.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

asksteevs said:


> Unfortunately not... I'm in good old Bozeman, MT. We're coming down for one week this month and the whole semester will be based off of that trip. I still appreciate the tips though, may give me places to check out...
> 
> Thanks!


I did not notice that you were in Bozeman Mt. Is Ferd Johns still teaching in the architecture school? That sounds like something he would come up with.

If so, please say hello to Ferd from Jeff Halpern, from Halpern Architects in Annapolis.

Jeff


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"I think it'd be cool to have a house over the water with part of it tall enough to be an enclosed slip for a sailboat. "
Ergh, DR? That's called a "boathouse". Should be plenty still standing in the Thousand Islands and other places where folks with money, boats, and "cottages" have infested the land.

I'm thinking, architecture involves real estate, boats are chattel goods, there's not a whole lot of overlap beyond "Where can I park the yacht?". And not too many locations where the land meets the sea (or reservoir) so not too many places for architecture to impact with sailing.

Lakeside firehouse with sailboat dock in basement, mast of sailboat used as firepole?

Dunno.

Steve-
You might try writing or calling some of the sailing magazines, telling them what your project is and asking if they could send a box of old magazines to the class. They sell back issues, but you never know who's feeling generous.

Having been interested in both over the years, I still have to say my reaction to "architecture+sailing=?" comes back as "Huh?" but maybe more coffee will change that.


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## k_p_m (Aug 6, 2012)

Have fun while your still in Arch school......


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

You can download a whole lot of stuff from Latitude 38, which is San Francisco-based. 
Have you looked at the marinas at Flathead Lake? 
My wife's cousin used to sail in Santa Cruz, Ca, and now lives in Bozeman (John Sully). 
You probably already have material about green/clean marinas and the requirements for achieving various groups' green designations. 

How about designs for community sailing centers? 
Or addressing the need for all kinds of people, including those with disabilities, for water access in a way that acknowledges and accommodates the high cost and competition for waterfront property? What are the most cost-effective ways to design or retrofit marinas and boats for use by non-traditional users?


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## asksteevs (Aug 27, 2012)

Thank you guys so much for your time. If you all wouldn't mind, can you enlighten me on what it is about sailing that makes you tick?

In short, why do you sail?

Feel free to tell me a little background, what type/size boat you sail, racing experience, etc.

I just want to make my knowledge of sailing as complete as possible so I can represent your pastime in a knowledgeable way through the course of this project. I want to do sailing proud!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"I just want to make my knowledge of sailing as complete as possible so "
You can't o tht without going out and sailing, Steve. A day on the water literally changes your blood chemistry and all the "drugs" that work your brain, so without going out and doing it, you would be like an author trying to describe a drug trip--without ever trying drugs. Or a virgin in a cloister trying to describe sex and orgasms or "coyote ugly".
Some things are still visceral, you can't booklearn them, and hearing stories about them just won't get you there.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

HelloSailor nailed it. You need to go sailing if you don't want to sound like an idiot or a parrot. Its the difference between doing primary research, vs reading a research paper, vs. reading a professional journal report on research, vs reading an article in a popular weekly magazine, vs. hearing the news on the hour soundbite version. There is a spectrum of difference and here you are only getting soundbites. 

Here are mine:
What do I love most about sailing?
	I really love the beauty of being out on the water, the changing color and sense of distance.
	I really love harnessing the forces of wind, current, my body and my mind to get me where I want to go.
	I really love the technology of sailing and keeping a boat up to speed. 
	I love the strategic thinking involved in winning a race or making a fast passage and/or figuring out how to get there without using the engine.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

freedom -- no traffic lights or yellow stripes, the ability to explore 70+ percent of the planet's surface, the responsibility for your own actions, the freedom to be contemplative and spend time getting to know oneself outside the constraints of modern society and packaged leisure, the power to change one's address and environment at any time

challenge -- a sport or recreation whose fundamentals you can learn in a day, but attempting to achieve mastery will occupy a lifetime

diversity -- in the moods of the ocean from benign to terrifying, in the many skills and subgenres of the sport, among sailors, in the ability to visit the world, in the rich heritage and history of humans upon the ocean

My time on the water has encompassed bits of this and that; coastal and inland day sailing, sailboat racing, sailboat race/regatta management, power boating, and kayaking. Also, one of the marinas where we keep a boat is a co-op, owned by a sailing club, for which we who are members do almost all of the repairs and maintenance.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

A comparison to enlarge on the "many skills and subgenres" mention:

Tennis: One racquet per player, one ball in play, two to four players, stripes on court to indicate service areas and area for singles or doubles play. Hit the ball over the net and between the lines and try to get an opponent to miss or mis-hit. That's pretty much it. Not to offend tennis fans, but sailing might just be a wee bit more varied:

Sailing: 
day sailing, gunk holing, overnight cruising, voyaging, short-duration buoy racing, multi-day regattas, long ocean races, global circumnavigation, world cruising, living aboard

on small dinghies, little catboats, high-performance skiffs or hydrofoil boats, sport boats, small keel boats, cruising boats, racer-cruisers, purpose-built racing boats, small beach catamarans, cruising catamarans and trimarans, volunteering to crew glorious tall ships and museum ships, with crews on elegant yachts and ratty home-built boats all having fun, 

sailing in small lakes and ponds, upon inland seas, in bays and gulfs, in the open ocean, in calms and storms, in crowded busy harbors and lonely forbidding coasts, in exotic lands among exotic craft, among ice floes at the top or bottom of the world or anchored among palm trees in a coral-reef-fringed lagoon,

while maybe on the side doing some fishing, surfing, diving and exploring the underwater realms, photography, collecting sea shells or doing nautical crafts, helping with research projects, participating in rendezvous and raft-ups and socializing with other sailors, or using one's skills to help people in less fortunate communities, 

learning basic sail trim, heavy weather and light air sailing skills, anchoring and mooring skills, maintaining and troubleshooting boat systems, learning dead reckoning and piloting, learning celestial and electronic navigation, learning traditional knot and ropework and other skills, perhaps acquiring occupational skills such as sailmaking or boat systems repair or becoming a licensed professional captain, learning about the ocean and weather, exploring the world and the complexities of all its cultures, learning the tactics and skills of sailboat racing, or perhaps learning about naval architecture and building your own boat or at least customizing and making your boat an expression of yourself and your wants and needs

while sailing your own dinghy as a seven-year-old child, or in high school or college competition, or solo sailing, or sailing in a singles group, or escaping under sail with your family, or being able to include your spouse and children in a sport in which you can compete together with everyone being important to your success, and a sport in which people with disabilities can compete, or sailing for decades after retirement.

Now, THAT's sailing.


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## asksteevs (Aug 27, 2012)

hellosailor said:


> "I just want to make my knowledge of sailing as complete as possible so "
> You can't o tht without going out and sailing, Steve.


Being a mountain biker/skier/climber kind of guy, I am well aware of this fact. The issue is that in the meantime I'm in Montana and can't do anything about it at least until I'm in SF.

Thanks for all the replies!


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

So sorry to contradict, but you CAN go sailing and learning about sailing and marinas in Montana; check out Flathead Lake (before it's too cold!). Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming all have (seasonal) lake sailing, with some marinas.

Dayton Yacht Harbor on Flathead Lake, Dayton Montana

North Flathead Yacht Club | Established in 1975 as Montana

flatheadlake.name/marinas/yacht-club/


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"The issue is that in the meantime I'm in Montana "
Among sailors, that's what's called a gross navigational error. (VBG)


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