# Annoying Halyard Slap



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

While walking across the Spa Creek Bridge in Annapolis yesterday, I heard a huge racket coming from the Annapolis Yacht Club. I looked over and noticed that their entire fleet of J22s had slapping halyards, because they had been left attached to the mainsails under the covers.

I have never had a problem with slapping halyards, because I detach them, give them a couple wraps around a lower shroud, and attach them to the base of my stanchions with light tension. I consider this a courtesy to my dock neighbors, some of whom are already somewhat suspicious of sailboats and would be annoyed by slapping halyards.

Is there some reason the halyard needs to be left attached to the mainsail on a small boat like the J22? I would think a snap shackle would make removal an easy task, especially when the boom is low enough to reach it so easily. Same goes for all small boats, including mine.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Personal pet peeve of mine too... I've contributed many of my own stock of small bungees to boats who's owners left a halyard slapping. I often wonder if any of them took the hint and continued to use them.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

The obnoxiousness of slapping halyards is second only to the racket from the cheap AirX type windgens in the anchorages of the Antilles. I do not understand how anyone could live with that noise, but so many do. I've been in several marinas which will charge an owner if they must repeatedly send an employee to the boat to tie off the halyards and extreme offenders are eventually asked to find another marina. The other one which would cause me to sell a boat, as fast as I could, is the slapping of the wires in the mast. There are several boats we know that have this problem and we will not anchor near them, if we see them in an anchorage. I'm not sure what they think when we pick up and move within minutes of their arrival, if they anchor near us, but frankly, I couldn't care less. I just don't understand how they can live with that racket.


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## Dave_E (Aug 7, 2013)

The whiring of the cheaper wind gens might be akin to a house fan or air conditioner... white noise. I sleep with an air conditioner in the room or a fan above my head in the window. Sleep like a baby. But, I can also sleep with ear buds in my head or dead silence. 

The halyard slap however... that turns me over.


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## ajoliver (Feb 23, 2007)

The main halyard can be tied off to a shroud without detaching it from the sail. That is what I do.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

Like ajoliver said. First flip the working end of the halyard around the spreader, then the bitter end likewise, snug up and cleat and you will have completely quiet halyards, no bungies or tie offs to worry about. That way you don't have to use an expensive snap shackle or remember to take a tool with you when you go to raise the main. KISS exemplified.
John


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Dave_E said:


> The whiring of the cheaper wind gens might be akin to a house fan or air conditioner... white noise. I sleep with an air conditionaer in the room or a fan above my head in the woindow. Sleep like a baby. But, I can also sleep with ear buds in my head or dead silence.
> The halyard slap however... that turns me over.


Not to be rude here, but now a days we are hardly talking about a whirring. Those things are often loud enough one cannot have a normal conversation in your own cockpit when the cheap windgens are hundreds of feet away. They seem to be fine for a few months, then the blades get all out of whack, soon causing a terrible bearing rattle. Those pieces of junk are false economy and a lot more on the side of noise pollution than a mere irritant. I'd much rather listen to a portable gene a few hours a day than those things 24. There are at least three around us right now and they truly make sitting in the cockpit in the evening, a less than a pleasurable experience.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I just slip a heavy bungee around the halyard and anchor it to the shroud - never slaps. I do the same thing when sailing to prevent mast slapping while underway. It ain't rocket science - just common sense. But as my old dad used to say "Common sense ain't very damned common these days." 

Cheers,

Gary


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## Dave_E (Aug 7, 2013)

capta said:


> Not to be rude here, but now a days we are hardly talking about a whirring. Those things are often loud enough one cannot have a normal conversation in your own cockpit when the cheap windgens are hundreds of feet away. They seem to be fine for a few months, then the blades get all out of whack, soon causing a terrible bearing rattle. Those pieces of junk are false economy and a lot more on the side of noise pollution than a mere irritant. I'd much rather listen to a portable gene a few hours a day than those things 24. There are at least three around us right now and they truly make sitting in the cockpit in the evening, a less than a pleasurable experience.


I don't really know how loud they are, so my bad. If the noise is ridiculous, obviously wouldn't want that!


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

There have been discussions as to whether it's proper to board another boat in the marina where the owner has left the halyard slapping. I don't hesitate to board and tie the halyard off with a piece of scrap. 

I figure I'm being a nice guy by not just slicing the darned thing.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Back to the original question, if I remember the AYC and it's location, it's a racing club, no? There are only one design race boats in the slips so there is no one actually sleeping nearby on a regular basis.

I may be incorrect but my impression of the club is more of a hard-core racing club.


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## Night_Sailor (May 27, 2012)

I can't stand halyard slap either. I use bungee cords and small stuff, or fuss with tension to make my boats silent. It comes in handy when anchored. When the other boats get close as the tide drops, you can hear it, wake up and, if necessary, shorten up.

As for the J-22's. It is easy enough to leave the mainsail attached and keep it quiet. I pull the halyard back with a sail-tie.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Always keep a sharp knife handy, can be useful for many things, such as stopping that annoying halyard slap.


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

I'm not a fan of the sound of halyards dancing away in the breeze, either...and I became "not a fan" before I even knew that one was supposed to do something to prevent it. The first night on our boat, our OWN halyard slapping kept me awake... 

Thankfully, a very pleasant person at our marina set me straight with a smile and a helpful hint the next morning, instead of going the other route and treating me like crap just because I was ignorant of proper polite halyard treatment.

I've restrained my halyards two ways; bungee cords to the shrouds, or by wrapping them around the shrouds. When I wrap them around the shrouds, I worry about abrasion at the point where the line rubs against the shrouds, so I've stuck w/ the bungee approach just because it seems kinder to the halyards. Thoughts? I'm going through bungees pretty quick... they get stretched out and sun-faded in a month. O'course, bungees are cheap..


Another question, semi-related... OK, not very related, but it's about lines...

We just hauled out for the winter yesterday. We're leaving the mast up for the first time, so I ran a bunch of messenger lines to get all the halyards and topping lift down for storage. The topping lift (1/4" Staset) and spare/spinnaker halyard (5/16" Staset) were both much stiffer than they were when we installed them new a year ago, and much stiffer than the 3/8" Staset we use for our main halyards and sheets; they didn't coil as easily and softly. Neither of them get the same "excercise" our main and jib halyards and sheets get. Is this typical? Does a stiffening of Staset indicate wear and a need for replacement?

Best to all, 

Barry


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Several years ago, I shredded a couple good halyards by wrapping them around the stays - it was a dumb thing to do and I should have known better.

This solves the problem. The only way the halyards will rattle against the mast is during a hurricane.










Gary


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

DRFerron said:


> Back to the original question, if I remember the AYC and it's location, it's a racing club, no? There are only one design race boats in the slips so there is no one actually sleeping nearby on a regular basis.
> 
> I may be incorrect but my impression of the club is more of a hard-core racing club.


The noise was huge - a whole orchestra of slaps. I heard the trailered boats from across the bridge.

You are right, they're hard core racers. Tell me how slapping halyards makes their boats faster.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Wash your lines and the stiffness will go away. I get lots of noise from sheets in the winches if they have have gotten wet with salt spray then dried. Some use fresh to wash spray off their stainless which is wise. I've been taught to also spray down all running rigging and winches.
I have two D400s. I tie them off if in a marina and plugged in. However they make a trivial amount of noise. Not all wind generators are the same. Interestingly was told to not put them on "brake". Apparently it's bad for them to be left on brake for prolonged periods of time.
Halyard issue goes away if you have mast pulpits. Good place to tie things off. I've had prior experience on earlier boat of using bungee just like in the picture and having it migrate up becoming ineffectual.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

TakeFive said:


> ...
> 
> You are right, they're hard core racers. Tell me how slapping halyards makes their boats faster.


I guess I meant that it's not like a regular marina. There won't be people sleeping on boats nearby. The only boats there are other race boats.

I'm not trying to excuse it, just offering up a (perhaps half-assed) explanation.


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

Hearing them at the marina is music to me.

I leave mine attached but it's slack enough that it doesn't slap.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

I tie off my halyards most of the time... My halyards are partially internal, and when the winds pick up the slap internally which is hard to eliminate... 

Genoa halyard connects to the pulpit (no slap)
Main halyard connects to the aft end of the boom (no slap)
spinnaker halyard connects to the spin pole ring (that can slap, if it does, I throw a bungee on it to the spreader, and leave it there).

Slapping halyards do no damage (that I know of)... so it's more a noise courtesy than anything else.

I've heard softening with woolite works.


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## abudoggie (Mar 12, 2014)

One of the first things the PO showed me when I took delivery of my boat this summer was how to bungee the halyards so I wouldn't annoy everyone in her new marina. Now I appreciate that was good advice.


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## Dave_E (Aug 7, 2013)

One more thought. Here's what I do. I remove the halyard from the sail and tie it off on the back of the boom and the spinnaker halyard is tied to a shroud cleat. No silly budgie cords. Just my view... It takes 2 seconds to get the dern things away from the mast.


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## midnightsailor (May 23, 2003)

On my Freedom 33 Cat Ketch I take both main and mizzen halyards off the sail and shckle to the boom ends and haul them up tight. They are internal so by keeping them tight it prevents any slap inside the mast. The mizzen staysail halyard goes to the base of the mast , pull tight and then bungied or sailtied to the Main halyard which is already shackled to the boom end just forward og the mizzen mast.( because of the free standing masts and thus no shrouds to tie off to) The spare main mast forward halyard gets led to the end of the bow platform and the standing part goes to the forward pulpit with a bungee. Ya , have to get a bit creative when there are no shrouds to help out, but any boats rigging can be made quiet and the boat a good neighbor with a little thought and effort. Since I live on it more often than not its awful to have to listen to noisy rigging all night and I won't hesitate to board an offending boat to silence a slapping halyard that the owner has neglected to take care of. 
One problem I have on my own boat was internal mast wiring that a previous owner installed without securing or muffling. The first night I slept aboard when there was a good swell in the anchorage and i had to suffer all night the "Slap!, SLap!!, SLAp!!!, SLAP!!!! of the wiring ringing the carbon fiber masts like a gong. I wound up pulling the wiring up the mast and tieing several foam strips spaced along it to muffle it. Bye the way . any better suggestions on dealing with this would be appreciated, though because of the carbon fiber mast ,installing a conduit would be difficult.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I'm impressed that so far there has only been 1 post of how slapping halyards are "music to me"  On the "other" forum I've had a slapping halyard thread running for years and there seems a lot more of these crazy responses on it.

There is really only 1 reason to leave your boat with the lines able to slap and make noise: it is that you are a lazy a-hole that doesn't care about anything other yourself uke


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

DRFerron said:


> Back to the original question, if I remember the AYC and it's location, it's a racing club, no? There are only one design race boats in the slips so there is no one actually sleeping nearby on a regular basis.
> 
> I may be incorrect but my impression of the club is more of a hard-core racing club.


AYC is like most yacht clubs, albeit the members and the club generally have more resources. There is a big racing program, a youth sailing program, cruises, and social events.


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

midnightsailor said:


> ....
> One problem I have on my own boat was internal mast wiring that a previous owner installed without securing or muffling. The first night I slept aboard when there was a good swell in the anchorage and i had to suffer all night the "Slap!, SLap!!, SLAp!!!, SLAP!!!! of the wiring ringing the carbon fiber masts like a gong. I wound up pulling the wiring up the mast and tieing several foam strips spaced along it to muffle it. Bye the way . any better suggestions on dealing with this would be appreciated, though because of the carbon fiber mast ,installing a conduit would be difficult.


I don't know if this is a "better" solution or not, but I read the following suggestion someplace a year ago when I rewired my mast (may have been on SailNet, might have been in a magazine... don't remember). I did this. It was easy, cheap, and it works great.

Get a bunch of nylon zipties. As you're pulling your wiring through the mast, every few feet attach three zipties around the wires leaving the tails long and sticking out in a tripod configuration, sort like the arms in a peace sign (Mercedes emblem). Clip the tails so that they're slightly longer than the interior cross section of your mast. They'll flex enough as you're pulling the wiring, but will keep the wiring suspended away from the interior walls of your mast.

I don't have internal halyards; this might not work with that system. On the other hand, I'm not sure how foam blocks would work with internals, either.. I've always wondered about that. My previous (crappy, non-working) mast wiring had long rotting pieces of foam duct-taped along a good bit of the wiring to keep it silent. It worked, but it was wedged in so tightly that getting the wiring out was difficult and a MESS because the foam was disintegrating, disgusting, moldy and wet. So far, I like the nylon tie system MUCH better.

Just an idea... best to all.

Barry


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

DRFerron said:


> I may be incorrect but my impression of the club is more of a hard-core racing club.


that really doesn't matter. In fact, my all-out race boat was certainly kept silent. Slap=chafe, and that = failure = expensive


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## H and E (Sep 11, 2011)

Sadly, there are members of our yacht club that enjoy the sound of halyards slapping. I tie mine off to keep them from slapping. So easy-so simple.


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## midnightsailor (May 23, 2003)

bblument said:


> I don't know if this is a "better" solution or not, but I read the following suggestion someplace a year ago when I rewired my mast (may have been on SailNet, might have been in a magazine... don't remember). I did this. It was easy, cheap, and it works great.
> 
> Get a bunch of nylon zipties. As you're pulling your wiring through the mast, every few feet attach three zipties around the wires leaving the tails long and sticking out in a tripod configuration, sort like the arms in a peace sign (Mercedes emblem). Clip the tails so that they're slightly longer than the interior cross section of your mast. They'll flex enough as you're pulling the wiring, but will keep the wiring suspended away from the interior walls of your mast.
> 
> ...


Thanks, it is a good method and probably better than then foam strips for the resons you mentioned. I have thought about doing just that except at the time I had only short tie wraps( the freedom carbon masts have a very large diameter) I will likely go that route if nothing else materializes, thanks for the suggestion.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

The general loss of the perforated aluminum toerails among production boats has made it more difficult to store halyards quietly too... we take ours right down to the toerails.. well off the mast and no bungees required.


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

I grew up across the street from a yacht club and the constant tinkling sound of halyards slapping on masts. To this day I love the sound! It reminds me of a childhood spent on the water and around boats. I don't let mine slap (it's loud inside the boat) and to not disturb others, but if another boat has slapping halyards nearby, I don't mind. Now generators on the other hand ...


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Hee hee. I was eavesdropping on a radio call from some charterers back to the charter base, and it seems they couldn't find the main halyard. You could hear the expression on the face of the person back at the charter company. "You can't find the halyard?!" 

Anyway, it was clipped to the lifeline to avoid halyard slap and that had completely stumped them.


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

we used to make jokes that the clanging was the sound of dollars flying in the wind


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Multihullgirl said:


> that really doesn't matter. In fact, my all-out race boat was certainly kept silent. Slap=chafe, and that = failure = expensive


This is just obvious, and marks the sailor as a rube.

I'm embarrassed that some posters think sharp knife comments are even funny.

I can't understand why anyone would remove the halyard. There are so many ways to pull it to one side and tension. It is actually somewhat tiresome with lazyjacks, as it has to go around them, both ways.

I don't understand why the J-22s have sails on the boom, not removed each night? No racer leaves small boat sails on the boom. Is a puzzlement. I moved it to boom end when I had a race boat.


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

pdqaltair said:


> This is just obvious, and marks the sailor as a rube.
> 
> I'm embarrassed that some posters think sharp knife comments are even funny.
> 
> ...


Why are you quoting my post in regards your assertions? I mention nothing of a knife, nor removing any halyards


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Multihullgirl said:


> Why are you quoting my post in regards your assertions? I mention nothing of a knife, nor removing any halyards


In the first PP I agreed with you.

The rest had nothing whatsoever to do with you. I'm sorry you inferred more than was meant. My apologies for my lack of clarity..


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

pdqaltair said:


> In the first PP I agreed with you.
> 
> The rest had nothing whatsoever to do with you. I'm sorry you inferred more than was meant. My apologies for my lack of clarity..


I knew what you meant, pdq!!


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

pdqaltair said:


> I'm embarrassed that some posters think sharp knife comments are even funny.


These, :laugher demonstrate humor, sarcasm, etc.

Have a rum and relax


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

Don0190 said:


> I'm impressed that so far there has only been 1 post of how slapping halyards are "music to me"  On the "other" forum I've had a slapping halyard thread running for years and there seems a lot more of these crazy responses on it.
> 
> There is really only 1 reason to leave your boat with the lines able to slap and make noise: it is that you are a lazy a-hole that doesn't care about anything other yourself uke


I'm the "crazy" person who said it's "music to me". 
Half my childhood was on a sailboat and the slapping halyards just bring back some fond memories of my parents--one of whom died while I was still a child, the other died 4 years ago. It's not from being "crazy", it's just a different point of view. They're a variation of pleasant sounding wind chimes to me.

However, I know not everyone shares the same point of view (and you won't catch me calling them "crazy" for it either), so my halyards remain attached but they're set so they don't slap.


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## FSMike (Jan 15, 2010)

Used to stay at a marina which had a lot of weekenders. Beginning on Sunday night those of us who lived there were treated to a huge racket whenever the wind piped up. Some of us went around and secured the appropriate halyards and left notes on the offending boats explaining what we had done and why.

After doing this 2 or 3 times with little improvement somebody went around and pulled all the slapping halyards to the top of the mast.
Things were much quieter after that.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

FSMike said:


> Used to stay at a marina which had a lot of weekenders. Beginning on Sunday night those of us who lived there were treated to a huge racket whenever the wind piped up. Some of us went around and secured the appropriate halyards and left notes on the offending boats explaining what we had done and why.
> 
> After doing this 2 or 3 times with little improvement somebody went around and pulled all the slapping halyards to the top of the mast.
> Things were much quieter after that.


LOL!

There will _ALWAYS_ be some component of sailors/boaters who will just _NEVER_ learn&#8230;

One hundred years from now, halyards will still be slapping in marinas&#8230;

And, people will _STILL_ be calling for 'Radio Checks' on Ch 16&#8230;


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

JonEisberg said:


> And, people will _STILL_ be calling for 'Radio Checks' on Ch 16&#8230;


:laugher:laugher:laugher


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## WGEwald (Jun 2, 2014)

FSMike said:


> Used to stay at a marina which had a lot of weekenders. Beginning on Sunday night those of us who lived there were treated to a huge racket whenever the wind piped up. Some of us went around and secured the appropriate halyards and left notes on the offending boats explaining what we had done and why.
> 
> After doing this 2 or 3 times with little improvement somebody went around and pulled all the slapping halyards to the top of the mast.
> Things were much quieter after that.


You people should apply that approach to all aspects of your life with anything that annoys you 

The least negative outcome might be a fist sandwich.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

FSMike said:


> Used to stay at a marina which had a lot of weekenders. Beginning on Sunday night those of us who lived there were treated to a huge racket whenever the wind piped up. Some of us went around and secured the appropriate halyards and left notes on the offending boats explaining what we had done and why.
> 
> After doing this 2 or 3 times with little improvement somebody went around and pulled all the slapping halyards to the top of the mast.
> Things were much quieter after that.


I hope that you're joking or exaggerating, because this definitely seems like a very uncool thing to do. "Fight fire with a blowtorch" is not a win-win slogan.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

FSMike;2291762
[B said:


> After doing this 2 or 3 times[/B] with little improvement somebody went around and pulled all the slapping halyards to the top of the mast.
> Things were much quieter after that.


Doesn't bother me in the least, after all they were basically saying screw you to everyone! 

I couldn't take the banging from the boat behind me anymore this weekend and went and moved the 2 lines that have been banging for a least a month.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

You know that knife you wear on your belt? Well!!!


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## TropicCat (Oct 14, 2008)

Faster said:


> Personal pet peeve of mine too... I've contributed many of my own stock of small bungees to boats who's owners left a halyard slapping. I often wonder if any of them took the hint and continued to use them.


I'm positive, this is what bungee cords were designed for


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

TropicCat said:


> I'm positive, this is what bungee cords were designed for


But surely you know bungee cords only last a couple of months and some of these boats are lucky to see their owners twice a year!
John


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## TropicCat (Oct 14, 2008)

I've been buying U/V protected bungees, and replace them once a year. That should work for even the most absent of boat owners.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

TropicCat said:


> I've been buying U/V protected bungees, and replace them once a year. That should work for even the most absent of boat owners.


just moving the lines so they can't bang works better


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

Since I find it wasteful to have any sort of short-term replacement items (bungees), I merely tie off my halyards away from the mast.

Screacher and chute halyards get made at the forward beam, if the screacher halyard isn't in use holding up the jib sock/cover

Main is unhooked and moved slightly aft and outboard to one of the lazy jacks holding up the lazy bag

No noise, no bungees


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

copacabana said:


> I grew up across the street from a yacht club and the constant tinkling sound of halyards slapping on masts. To this day I love the sound! It reminds me of a childhood spent on the water and around boats. I don't let mine slap (it's loud inside the boat) and to not disturb others, but if another boat has slapping halyards nearby, I don't mind. Now generators on the other hand ...


My wife loves sleeping on the boat at our marina and she says the reason is she loves going to sleep to the sound of slapping halyards (to me they are like dripping water).


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Back to the OP-

TF- I live nearby, and have walked over that bridge several times. I think what you observed that day, was that the boats were rigged for use and had not yet been broken down for storage, or perhaps were going to be raced later that day.

Leaving the halyards slapping on the raceboats is not the norm for AYC.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Multihullgirl said:


> Since I find it wasteful to have any sort of short-term replacement items (bungees), I merely tie off my halyards away from the mast.
> 
> Screacher and chute halyards get made at the forward beam, if the screacher halyard isn't in use holding up the jib sock/cover
> 
> ...


We do the same, but having a 20 foot beam must help with that!!


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

Beam don't matter... I'm putting my halyards at what effectively would be your bow pulpit, and the lazy bag is the sail bag. I see no diff there.

But:

Since I have internal halyards, I am also sure to keep a fair bit of tension in order to keep the halyards from banging inside the mast. It just occurred to me that if one has external halyards, both the working and the lazy sides (of line on the sheaves) must be kept off the mast in some way, which then would necessitate some flavor of tie-off. Oh well, I tried...


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Multihullgirl said:


> Since I find it wasteful to have any sort of short-term replacement items (bungees), I merely tie off my halyards away from the mast.


Couldn't agree more&#8230; Somebody's gotta say it - _Ordinary bungee cords have no place aboard a proper yacht&#8230;_

)

Whenever I jump on a boat to be delivered, I know I might be in trouble if I find the owner to be a devotee of one 2 things onboard:

One of those large plastic containers of bungee cords from Harbor Freight, or a vast assortment/array of 'Fender Hangers' from West Marine&#8230;

A potted plant makes for a Perfect Trifecta, that guarantees I will have made a mistake in quoting a flat rate for the trip&#8230; 

Not saying that stretchy stuff cannot be very useful aboard a boat, I make extensive use of it on my boat, as a matter of fact&#8230;

Solid Elastomer is great stuff, stands up quite well to UV and the marine environment, and will last for years without losing its degree of stretch, can be put to a wide variety of uses&#8230;

APS - Stretch Cord - Solid Elastomer










Used in combination with these type of hooks or padeyes, makes for a very clean, non-rusting installation&#8230;

APS - Shock and Stretch Cord Fasteners


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

Multihullgirl said:


> Beam don't matter... I'm putting my halyards at what effectively would be your bow pulpit, and the lazy bag is the sail bag. I see no diff there.
> 
> But:
> 
> Since I have internal halyards, I am also sure to keep a fair bit of tension in order to keep the halyards from banging inside the mast. It just occurred to me that if one has external halyards, both the working and the lazy sides (of line on the sheaves) must be kept off the mast in some way, which then would necessitate some flavor of tie-off. Oh well, I tried...


Right, so I go back to my system of wrapping around the spreaders and putting some tension on. No wearing tear on the halyard and no tie offs and no tools required, and no slapping halyards. Now if I had a stack pack, I would do something different.
John


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

JonEisberg said:


> Solid Elastomer is great stuff, stands up quite well to UV and the marine environment, and will last for years without losing its degree of stretch, can be put to a wide variety of uses&#8230;
> 
> APS - Stretch Cord - Solid Elastomer


oooh, nifty. Now I have something good to replace the kinda chinchy shock cord returns that Ronstan put on the Constrictor clutches. Good find, thanks


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## the_abuse (Jan 12, 2014)

This old boat had a really good article on this in the sept/Oct issue they made these little boomerang looking things and attached them to their spreaders I'll take a pic and post it shortly


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

Halyard slap ??? Seriously ???? If that's that's something that registers high on your worry list.....I want to live your life . I've never been in a marina that didn't sound like wind chimes some nights . For the record I have a shroud cleat on my backstay I attach my halyard to . People that go on my boat & change things without permission I send to the nearest critical care facility . Comments about knife wielding as a cure seem more like the perspective of a shoe clerk then a mariner .


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

typical badass talk

real badasses don't do any talk


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## drsutton (Aug 6, 2013)

To all of you light sleepers. The slapping puts me right to sleep.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

drsutton said:


> To all of you light sleepers. The slapping puts me right to sleep.


Slapping doesn't bother me either. But that's not what this thread is about. I started this thread to comment on how simple it is to prevent halyards from slapping.

So regardless of whether the slapping bothers you (or me), why not take a few seconds to prevent your halyards from slapping as a courtesy to your neighbors? No need for weapons, or sending anyone to the hospital, just do it.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

While cutting halyards or running them up to the masthead is just plain wrong and evil spirited, I have no problem with the idea of stepping aboard to add a bungee or rearrange/tighten a noisy halyard is no one is on board - nor with the idea of asking someone to deal with it if they are there and it's a problem.

If one of my 'slapping halyards' (not that it ever happens) is bothering someone I'm OK with them correcting it reasonably too.

While the 'wind chime' marinas can have a certain charm for some, it's not for others (we've never had wind chimes either ) But sitting below with a slapping halyard or loose internal mast wire would drive us both mad. We have trouble understanding how someone can sleep through that on their own boat...


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## rugosa (Aug 30, 2011)

Watch those bungies/shockcords - great way to take an eye out (well, almost) - won't share the details except that I've never had that kinda pain before, not even when I cut off part of my finger ukeukeuke - but never use a potentially fast moving projectile.


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## j d (Jul 27, 2014)

Faster, Thanks for your sensible reply. Never would I condone vandalisms to another’s boat because it has offended me. I would however step aboard to correct their halyard slap if it were driving me nuts. By the same token, I would not be offended should someone perform the same courtesy for me in my absence. 

I will say that those who habitually leave their halyards unattended, probably have an unattended barking dog at home also.


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## WGEwald (Jun 2, 2014)

> I would however step aboard to correct their halyard slap if it were driving me nuts. By the same token, I would not be offended should someone perform the same courtesy for me in my absence.


Tradition requires asking permission to board another's boat. There are no exceptions except for protecting life and property. "It's driving me nuts" is neither. If you're that high-strung, take up gardening instead.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

WGEwald said:


> Tradition requires asking permission to board another's boat. There are no exceptions except for protecting life and property. "It's driving me nuts" is neither. If you're that high-strung, take up gardening instead.


Traditionally, people would be more considerate of others. This whole attitude of, "If it bothers you, get out of the marina," is offensive to me.

As far as I am concerned, tradition of asking permission is not legally binding. If someone's boat is making noise (slapping halyard) or even getting dock rash because of a broken line, I would get aboard and fix it.


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

TakeFive said:


> Traditionally, people would be more considerate of others. This whole attitude of, "If it bothers you, get out of the marina," is offensive to me.


I wholeheartedly agree. Common courtesy and consideration, while still alive and well in many circles, does seem to be eroding in today's "selfie" society.

As I admitted in an earlier post, I was guilty of letting my halyards slap when I first started boating. I didn't mean to be discourteous or inconsiderate.. I just didn't know any better. So, while slapping halyards are annoying, it MAY be possible that the offender is simply ignorant, rather than obnoxiously and intentionally rude.



TakeFive said:


> As far as I am concerned, tradition of asking permission is not legally binding. If someone's boat is making noise (slapping halyard) or even getting dock rash because of a broken line, I would get aboard and fix it.


I really enjoy the "permission to come aboard" custom. Regardless of which end of that greeting I'm on, it conveys respect and it makes both parties feel good. Legally binding? Probably not, as you say. Not to be argumentative, but the two situations you are comparing are very different; in the case of a broken line causing dock rash, you are doing the owner a favor by protecting his boat and property for him in his absence. I was fortunate enough to have someone do that for me when, again in my extreme beginning stages of boat ownership, I had the boat tied much too tight and two of my lines DID begin to fray pretty badly in some good winds while I was two hours away at my house. In the case of slapping halyards, you'd be boarding someone elses boat for your benefit, not the owner's. I'm NOT condemning the action, although I personally wouldn't do it. Just pointing out that it's not quite the same motivation.

Best to you,

Barry


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> Traditionally, people would be more considerate of others. This whole attitude of, "If it bothers you, get out of the marina," is offensive to me.
> 
> As far as I am concerned, tradition of asking permission is not legally binding. If someone's boat is making noise (slapping halyard) or even getting dock rash because of a broken line, I would get aboard and fix it.


Since you hijacked the intent of your original post I will comment on the phrase ....legally binding. Explain how you could be legally entitled to trespass on property not belonging to you unless you owned the marina.

Where do you get the right to go on someone else's property to take matters into your own hands....just because you are annoyed????

Let's change your second phrase to this...this whole attitude where you think you have the rights to IMPOSE your standards or conduct on others is offensive to me.

In reality I agree with being conscious and caring about my neighbors feelings about slapping halyards. I have given PERMISSION to my neighbors to adjust mine should they become an annoyance.

Without permission you should just deal with it or make your complaints known to the owner of the marina. They have the recourse to go after the offensive behavior. You do not legally.


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## capt jgwinks (Sep 24, 2013)

A stinkpotter once told me that the only thing he ever climbs onto some one elses boat fix is slapping hslyards. And he uses a sharp knife to do it.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

WGEwald said:


> Tradition requires asking permission to board another's boat. There are no exceptions except for protecting life and property. "It's driving me nuts" is neither. If you're that high-strung, take up gardening instead.


So you feel that if someone doesn't like to listen to a noisy slapping banging halyard they are high strung? Well that is just uke


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

chef2sail said:


> Since you hijacked the intent of your original post I will comment on the phrase ....legally binding. Explain how you could be legally entitled to trespass on property not belonging to you unless you owned the marina.
> 
> Where do you get the right to go on someone else's property to take matters into your own hands....just because you are annoyed????
> 
> ...


As I already said, slapping halyards do not bother me. So I personally would probably not get on someone else's boat to adjust their halyard. But there are several people here who said they have gotten on others' boats to adjust the halyards or donate a bungee cord, and I see nothing wrong with that. (However, vandalizing with a knife or pulling the halyards to the top of the mast is totally wrong, IMO.)

It goes without saying that if the owner is present, or is known to visit his boat frequently, it would be best to just talk to him. Complaining to the manager would not go over well in my marina. Our manager rarely comes out on the docks and doesn't want to be bothered. Some complainers have been kicked out. So it behooves you to be a good citizen and work it out with your neighbors. And by and large, my neighbors are laid back and wouldn't prosecute for trespassing if you got onto their boat to make a harmless adjustment while they were away. Maybe your marina is different.

Trespassing laws vary in different states, but in most states momentarily stepping onto someone else's property is not trespassing unless you have been explicitly warned not to do so. Often that means a sign needs to be posted. There are a couple of boats in my marina with such signs, and I would never get on them. They're both derelict stinkpots, so no halyards to worry about. Never once seen their owners in the marina. (They're in such bad shape, not sure why anyone would want to get onto them anyway.)

Pennsylvania's law is interesting because it requires the offender to enter _and remain_ on the property to be guilty of trespassing. Presumably, merely entering is not an offense unless you stay there after the owner tells you to leave. I believe that Maryland's law requires signs to be posted.

But in order for any of these laws to be enforced, the property owner needs to press charges. What kind of captain would press charges against someone else who went aboard his unoccupied boat to do something as harmless as putting a bungee cord on a halyard? That's not the kind of neighbor I am, and it's not the kind of neighbor I want near me either.


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## TropicCat (Oct 14, 2008)

j d said:


> Faster, Thanks for your sensible reply. Never would I condone vandalisms to another's boat because it has offended me. I would however step aboard to correct their halyard slap if it were driving me nuts. By the same token, I would not be offended should someone perform the same courtesy for me in my absence.


No...... I mean hell no. .... No one steps on another's boat without permission ... period.

Exception to the rule?...sure ..... if the boat is sinking... or someone is dying


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

TakeFive said:


> Traditionally, people would be more considerate of others. This whole attitude of, "If it bothers you, get out of the marina," is offensive to me.
> 
> As far as I am concerned, tradition of asking permission is not legally binding. If someone's boat is making noise (slapping halyard) or even getting dock rash because of a broken line, I would get aboard and fix it.


Legally binding.....hmmmm......spoken like a true shoe clerk . How easily some people discount an age old tradition . How glad am I that I'm the dock master in my marina . I swear.....when I hear grease mouth crap like that I don't recognize the world I grew up in anymore .


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

TropicCat said:


> No...... I mean hell no. .... No one steps on another's boat without permission ... period.
> 
> Exception to the rule?...sure ..... if the boat is sinking... or someone is dying


Well, I'm sure glad the locals up in places like Nova Scotia and Newfoundland aren't so uptight and rigid about this sort of stuff... The game of musical chairs that gets played in some of those tiny harbors packed with working craft would be impossible to play, if it weren't commonly accepted that rafting is often part of the deal, and one is always welcome to moor alongside an unoccupied boat, no prior permission required...

Only rule is, be ready to move in the middle of the night, and _No Whining_ when asked to do so...


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## the_abuse (Jan 12, 2014)

Yes by


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> As I already said, slapping halyards do not bother me. So I personally would probably not get on someone else's boat to adjust their halyard. But there are several people here who said they have gotten on others' boats to adjust the halyards or donate a bungee cord, and I see nothing wrong with that. (However, vandalizing with a knife or pulling the halyards to the top of the mast is totally wrong, IMO.)
> 
> It goes without saying that if the owner is present, or is known to visit his boat frequently, it would be best to just talk to him. Complaining to the manager would not go over well in my marina. Our manager rarely comes out on the docks and doesn't want to be bothered. Some complainers have been kicked out. So it behooves you to be a good citizen and work it out with your neighbors. And by and large, my neighbors are laid back and wouldn't prosecute for trespassing if you got onto their boat to make a harmless adjustment while they were away. Maybe your marina is different.
> 
> ...


Legal mumbo jumbo...thats whats wrong with todays society.
Who cares whos marina has the best people in it

You have no right stepping onto someone elses property period. And doubly have no right to even "adjust" some one elses property without permission. Thats why I said maybe to ask the management if you cannot find the offendor yourself. Too bad your management is so vicious to its patrons by retaliating.

So suppose you wait to speak to me ( I am the halyard slapping boat) and I tell you to just stick it.....would you still board my boat when I wasnt there to silence my halyards? Do you think your rights superceed mine?

Just deal with it...its only noise.


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## TropicCat (Oct 14, 2008)

My catamaran is on a "T" at the end of a dock. One day I arrive at my boat and was greeted by large muddy footprints beginning on the water side of my boat and then across my cockpit and onto the dock. It took all of 5 minutes to discover that a newbie (brand new boat owner) in the marina decided to use my boat as a convenient dinghy dock. One word to the dock master and the 'newbie' was history.. gonzo ... 

This behavior is not tolerated around this part of the country and I'm surprised by some of these posts. It's only new boat owners who seem to do this.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

chef2sail said:


> Legal mumbo jumbo...thats whats wrong with todays society...


I dunno Dave. I think you took the legal bait and ran with it by bringing up the prospect of trespassing charges. I clarified what constitutes trespassing in different states to clear up your statement. I'm happy to drop it, since it does not apply to me since slapping halyards do not bother me.



chef2sail said:


> ...You have no right stepping onto someone elses property period. And doubly have no right to even "adjust" some one elses property without permission...


I've said repeatedly that slapping halyards do not bother me. I have not, and probably never will, get onto someone's boat to adjust their halyard. Others here have done that or have said that they would, and I invite you to direct your criticism to them if you choose. All I said was that I would not have a problem with someone else who did that (or something similarly harmless) to my boat if my halyard somehow worked its way loose. I would not press charges against them. Apparently you would, so you may want to consider posting an appropriate sign on your boat to preserve your right to do that.



chef2sail said:


> ...So suppose you wait to speak to me ( I am the halyard slapping boat) and I tell you to just stick it.....would you still board my boat when I wasnt there to silence my halyards?


No. I already said repeatedly that they don't bother me. I'd tell someone else that you said it was OK for them to board. :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I guess it's a regional/cultural thing... we're getting off track of the original topic here, but.....

All of you who are so 'territorial' had better not charter/cruise/visit BC waters. In many areas dock footage is limited, and reprovisioning spots the same.. as a result these areas are very busy and rafting is expected, encouraged and even occasionally mandated. It's not unusual to be 3 deep at times during peak season and mid day.

It requires a certain amount of forebearance, and some 'ballet moves' to get someone out if they're the inside boat but overall it works quite well. People are considerate, cross another vessel forward rather than through the cockpit unless they've been given leave to do so, use proper fenders and use common sense when deciding who/what makes a good rafting partner (boat size, type, etc)

Sounds like some of you might blow a gasket if you were ever subjected to such a situation...


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Faster said:


> I guess it's a regional/cultural thing... we're getting off track of the original topic here, but.....
> 
> All of you who are so 'territorial' had better not charter/cruise/visit BC waters. In many areas dock footage is limited, and reprovisioning spots the same.. as a result these areas are very busy and rafting is expected, encouraged and even occasionally mandated. It's not unusual to be 3 deep at times during peak season and mid day.
> 
> ...


I think no one would blow a headgasket as thats the custom of where you are. And if thats the way the raft ups mooring are set up. We have that sometimes where we visit.

Weve read on here where people will row to a boat moored close to them or walk down the dock and board another boat uninvited just to quiet a few slapping halyards.

Much different from someone being annoyed by a natural sound of a sailboat and taking matter into his own hand by tinkering with someone elses equipement.

Boarding someones boat just because you dont like the sound it makes is rather different than extricating oneself from raft up.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> I dunno Dave. I think you took the legal bait and ran with it by bringing up the prospect of trespassing charges. I clarified what constitutes trespassing in different states to clear up your statement. I'm happy to drop it, since it does not apply to me since slapping halyards do not bother me.
> 
> I've said repeatedly that slapping halyards do not bother me. I have not, and probably never will, get onto someone's boat to adjust their halyard. Others here have done that or have said that they would, and I invite you to direct your criticism to them if you choose. All I said was that I would not have a problem with someone else who did that (or something similarly harmless) to my boat if my halyard somehow worked its way loose. I would not press charges against them. Apparently you would, so you may want to consider posting an appropriate sign on your boat to preserve your right to do that.
> 
> No. I already said repeatedly that they don't bother me. I'd tell someone else that you said it was OK for them to board. :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher


So i was being baited:laugher:laugher Sorry I must have missed thatuke

Dont be silly...I wouldnt press charge////and halyards dont annoy me. I guess you took the legal term literally and ran with it now. I carefully try and make sure mine dont bother others.

But let me site real to life instance instead of hypotheticals. One do gooder didnt like the sound of the slapping halyards and tied a bungee cord around it fastened to the spreaders. We had a goood three steady windy days and the bungee sawed through the halyard. The experiend boater instead of using the bungree ends which we plastic/ metal...used the cords its self.... The halyard needed to be replaced.

I guess I am just saying I have enough respect for others property that I would not decide to board their home, use it or adjust it without their permission unless in imment danger, or it was part of the culture of a raft up etc.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Radio check on 16 please..."I'm confused"

LOL


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

JonEisberg said:


> Well, I'm sure glad the locals up in places like Nova Scotia and Newfoundland aren't so uptight and rigid about this sort of stuff... The game of musical chairs that gets played in some of those tiny harbors packed with working craft would be impossible to play, if it weren't commonly accepted that rafting is often part of the deal, and one is always welcome to moor alongside an unoccupied boat, no prior permission required...


I haven't been to Nova Scotia or Newfoundland. My experience with rafting up is limited to Europe where there is a pretty widely respected protocol for rafting up. That isn't to say there aren't poorly behaved people there as there are here. The mental giant who rafted to me downwind and down tide on the Hamble comes to mind.

The concept of casual rafting is foreign (ha!) to most Americans. It really isn't hard. If you are on the inside tie up expecting others to raft. That means long springs in both directions and breast lines as well as bow and stern lines. It is wise to put fenders on the outside, even though it is the responsibility of the outer boat to fender properly. The recent discussion here on SN of how many fenders one should carry is relevant. (*grin*)

For those further out (and "out" can be four boats), tying up is just the beginning. Get fenders out. Good etiquette includes running long bow and stern lines directly to the dock. That means carrying some pretty long docklines.

You are responsible for the brightwork of your inward neighbors. Lots of chafe gear wrapped in toweling. If the boat inside you is taller even toweling can damage brightwork so you may have to be creative.

It is courteous to head ashore forward of the mast unless explicitly invited to climb through the cockpits. On private boats it is polite to carry your shoes (yes I know it may be cold and raining - suck it up) until invited otherwise. You may find baskets ashore of the innermost boats to drop off boat shoes and pick up shore shoes.

Rafting to work boats is easier - you mostly worry most about tracking dirt onto your boat. A mat on your side deck aft near the cockpit for you and your crew and one forward for outboard boats is well advised.

Regardless, adjusting anything on a neighboring boat except to protect the boat (chafe for example) is not done.

Coordination is good form. Sometimes there is a mid-afternoon "dance" shuffling boats around to accommodate a middle-of-the-night departure on the tide.

I don't know if rafting in Atlantic Canada is the same. Jon?


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

TakeFive said:


> It goes without saying that if the owner is present, or is known to visit his boat frequently, it would be best to just talk to him.


+1

Now until you can actually talk to the person there's this option:









$3 at Homer and MUCH less confrontational.

BTW I've talked to a couple of sailors about halyards. I've never had a negative reaction and they've always taken care of it. But then I usually approached them with a beer in hand rather than a clenched fist...


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

JimMcGee said:


> BTW I've talked to a couple of sailors about halyards. I've never had a negative reaction and they've always taken care of it.


Well you need to spend time next to me in the mooring field and try your magic on the boat next to me. I've asked him numerous times and have gone over and fixed his and yet he still leaves them banging. Doesn't matter to him as he never stays on the boat.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

If the whole fleet had their halyards left attached to the mainsail, it sounds to me like they're part of a program of club-owned boats that are used by a large number of people.
They leave the halyards attached on purpose so that all the oncoming crew needs to do is clear off the cover and hoist the sail. With this type of crowd, attaching and detaching halyards is a good way to have them end up at the top of the mast. This would impact not only the crew who lost it. The next group to come along (they're often tightly scheduled) would also not be able to use the boat until it had been brought in to the dock and the halyard retrieved somehow. (Climbing up a J/22 mast is probably not highly recommended.) A solution might be a length of shock cord that could be clipped to a shroud and the halyard, to hold it out away from the mast without disconnecting it.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Don0190 said:


> Well you need to spend time next to me in the mooring field and try your magic on the boat next to me. I've asked him numerous times and have gone over and fixed his and yet he still leaves them banging. Doesn't matter to him as he never stays on the boat.


The guys I've spoken with were newbie day sailors. They just didn't know any better and hadn't thought about it.

Sounds like you're dealing with a guy who's just a jerk. That's a whole different problem.


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## mr_f (Oct 29, 2011)

Well, we have reached the season with much worse noise than halyard slap. The boat across from me apparently stripped their furling main today. Now something in that mechanism is banging inside their mast. Sounds like a friggin' gong. 

I don't have any experience with furling mains, so I don't know what the inside of that mechanism looks like, but I sure hope there is a solution. I assume they don't spend much time on their boat without the sail on, so I wonder if they even know it can make that noise. We were near one last winter that never did quiet down even though the marina said the owner was taking care of it. But it was just slightly more annoying than halyard slap, not this level of rattle-your-teeth noise.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

I try to tie the lines so they do not rattle.
It can be a challenge sometimes, particularly when you are still on board and you will hear every rattle.
I liked the idea of swinging them over the spreader first to bear them away from the mast.
I will try that next time.
Be careful with those bungee hooks though. If they whack you in the eye it can be a very serious injury indeed.
Also, less seriously, long-term halyard slap takes the paint off the mast, given time.

As regards rafting up, sometimes you have to raft up as there is no space anywhere else. As for those dreadful owners that tie to a pontoon and then drape a sign with "keep off" on the off side, well, that is the first boat I would tie up to. I have no time for that nonsense. It must be remembered that if he breaks down and needs a tow (or worse), there will be no talk of "keep off" then.

We need to help one another. Last summer I was in the beautiful outer basin of the Crinan Canal, Scotland. How much it is appreciated if you just stand there and offer to catch a line for a new boat coming in, particularly if the wind is a-blowing. When you spot that the crew are novices, a comment like (wind astern), "Sir, throw me your stern line first and the wind will pull you in when you tighten it" helps them enormously. A smile and a hand-shake does wonders and they remember you for it.

.


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## rugosa (Aug 30, 2011)

mr_f said:


> Well, we have reached the season with much worse noise than halyard slap. The boat across from me apparently stripped their furling main today. Now something in that mechanism is banging inside their mast. Sounds like a friggin' gong.


Go to the source of the problem - speak to the boat owner.


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