# Blistering



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

Good day all,

I have 1981 22' Catalina that has been in the water most of her life. You all know what that means BLISTERING. I have to get her out of the water to do some other work on her, knowing that she will have blistering I 'll need to fix that along with the other work. My question is what is the best path to take when it comes to blistering. I would like to do the work my self and have a few insights on what to do, but would like a few more just to make sure I'm going the right way. My first step will be to have her surveyed.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Depends on how deep the blisters go. If they are mostly superficial, and in the gelcoat, then sanding, letting the hull dry and then re-fair and epoxy barrier coating is probably the way to go. If the blisters go deeper into the laminate, then you'll have a lot of nasty work cut out for you...not that blisters aren't nasty to begin with.


----------



## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

*blisters*

I Interlux barrier coated my boat and after a year no blisters had returned. Don Casey's book gives a detailed description of how to treat the blisters. It is not that difficult.

pigslo


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

What is the name of Don Casey book so that I may check it out.


----------



## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

For probably the best blister information and help in deciding exactly what to do, go to: www.yachsurvey.com and follow the links to "blisters".


----------



## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Treating the blister problem is a relatively simple procedure and you'll get plenty of advice from links like the above.
The biggest part of the procedure, and one that probably gets short-circuited the most is the drying out of the hull once the blisters have been opened up. This can take literally months, up to 6 or more. A good way to address this is to write off the latter part of the season, haul in the fall, seal off the boat in a tarp or shelter of some sort and keep it dry and warm over the winter. Then address the repairs in the late spring.

We did just that a few years back on a 1981 boat, used Interlux barrier epoxy, laid on 6 - 8 coats, and have not had a recurrence .


----------



## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

*dry time*

Yes the drying of the hull is important. More of an issue in the northern climates. Mine dryed in a metal warehouse in Houston in the summer. It was there for 2 years. Hard to beat that. There are ways to hasten the process up north with lights and what have you.

pigslo


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes, making sure the laminate is completely dry is the most important part of repairing blistering. Unfortunately, the only easy way to do that is TIME, hot dry air, and patience.


----------



## Gary M (May 9, 2006)

The link above would not open but it sounds like people are saying you can just open up the known blisters dry out and and then epoxy. 
In my experience you should take off all of the gel coat and then dry the hull. There will be internal blisters trapped within the gel coat that have not appreared yet. 
On a 22 ft boat it is not that big a job to remove it all. I just completed a 30 footer and that was fun. 
I found a powerful ( 3 amps) random obital sander to be the best method. 

Gary


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*Time*

If there is one thing I have it is time. My job is taking me away for three mouth,(three of the hottest mouths in GA.) I'm just wondering if I should open the blister before I go away or wait till I get back. I can always do the other work over the winter and let the blister wait till spring.


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

A couple quick points here,

-You should open up the blisters before your leave. If you do grind them out, make sure that you grind down into solid glass, and not just through the gelcoat. You should also cover the hull against driving rain but leave the cover open so that air can circulate.
-There was a misspelling in the above link to David Pascoe's site is http://www.yachtsurvey.com
-Peeling is generally believed to be better than grinding. Grinding builds up heat and at least one paper that I have seen suggests that the heat build up can undermine the immeadiate sub-layers. 
-I am a big believer in laying up the repair with cloth and epoxy resin. I agree with David Pascoe's point about removing all unsaturated laminate and filling all pinholes and with his point that unreinforced epoxy does not have the strength to bridge gaps. Using cloth adds to the labor involved in making the repair but it also helps guarentee a more permanent fix. 
-While I understand and essentially agree with his point on Osmotic blistering, I personally have seen cases where water from the bilge has moved through the laminate causing major delamination. The worst cases of that that I have seen have been in keel cavities where poor laminate is more prevelient (its hard to work properly in a confined space like a keel cavity) and where water is often trapped against the interior of this inferior laminate.

Jeff


----------



## Curt (May 29, 2006)

Was there a year of manufacture in the industry that breakthroughs were found or technology was improved that made blistering occur less often? 
Maybe even some of the individual builders who have been more successful than others at eliminating the problem?


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Each manufacturer had a period of years during which their boats had the worst blister problem. The specific years varied from manunfacturer to manufacturer. In a general sense resins began being reformulated during the mid-1970's due to the "Oil Crisises". For most U.S. manufacturers the worst period for blistering was somewhere around 1979-1983, with the problem tapering off throughout the 1980's as better resins and building techniques came on line. It was during the 1979-1983 period that the worst of the true osmotic blistering was a problem and boats with true osmotic blistering can never permanently be repaired. (These boats often have lower prices than the same model produced in earlier and later production years). The European and Asian yards seemed to take longer resolving the problem than the better U.S. yards.

Jeff


----------



## marinedtcomRob (Oct 26, 2005)

I had to relaminate my Little Harbor 38 back in 1996. Like your boat she had sat in the water year round. I tried sand blasting but the problem was too deep and I would have been better off going straight to having the boat blister peeled as it would have produced a fairer surface to build back on. Anyway I did have to boat peeled and then spent days sanding. This part was a lot of fun in a tyvek jump suit in the 95 deg. / 95 humidity NC sun. After that I relaminated with layers of 12.5 oz cloth and West System. I stuck with West System on the barrier coat too using their barrier coat additive. Start to finish I probably used something on the order of 20 gallons of West System!!! Ten years out now I've had no problems. Tips: figure at least six months to let the hull dry. Send me a message if you want to buy a Traumenx (sp) Skipper moisture meter as I have one that I bought for the job and never bothered to sell. Also, when you relaminate, if you have to, plan your work so you get a chemical link between West System coats or if this is not possible use their release fabric as it will help you get a better mechanical bond.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Jeff_H said:


> A couple quick points here,
> 
> -You should open up the blisters before your leave. If you do grind them out, make sure that you grind down into solid glass, and not just through the gelcoat. You should also cover the hull against driving rain but leave the cover open so that air can circulate.
> -There was a misspelling in the above link to David Pascoe's site is http://www.yachtsurvey.com
> ...


Believe Jeff meant *all saturated laminate *above... otherwise I agree with what he has said.


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Actually, I meant 'unsaturated' by which I meant, remove all laminate that did not appear to be properly saturated with resin. As I read that back to meyself, this was a case where what I meant was perfectly obvious to me as I was writing it but was not clear to anyone else from what I had written. I hate when that happens, but thanks for pointing out the ambiguity of that sentence.

Jeff


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

There was an excellent article in Cruising World a few years ago in the "Practical Sailor" section that gave step by step instructions on repairing blisters. It was an excellent and easy to follow article.


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Definitely, open them up before you leave. Strip whatever you are going to strip off the bottom, so it dries more thorougly, and make sure no water will acucmulate INSIDE the hull (from rain, etc.) while you are gone. When you come back it should be much drier and that's when you want to do the repairs. Don't be surprised to find you are floating higher in the water after a 3-month dry out!<G>


----------



## foxglove (Dec 27, 2002)

*More info*

The link that Rich H was displaying is yachtsurvey.com (he left out the 't'). Other information at zanhisers.com, a marina in the Chesapeake Bay. Follow links to their paper on hull blistering. It's based on a coast guard funded study by the University of Rhode Island by Thomas Rocket and Vincent Rose, The Causes of Boat Hull Blisters, 1987. 

Google their names and you'll find more infomation.

Also, search this message board for blistering. Sailor Mitch helped me with my blistering problem. There are several posts on the topic.

Good luck- blisters suck.

Max


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*Out of the water*

Will she is out of the water and she looks like a 15 year old that just had a run in with the cookie jar. I don't thank that I'm going to have the time before the 30th to do the work. As far as I can tail everything from the water line down will have to come off. I have to go back out to her in the morning to check the covering (We got rain this evening, first in a mouth). I'll post some pic's so you all can see what it looks like.

I would like to say thanks to all the great seaman that have posted very helpful info on this problem.

Thank You,
May the sun aways be on your face and the wind at your back. Good sailing to you all.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

JeffH-

I thought you were speaking of water-saturated...not resin-unsaturated laminate.  Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Sonny...While there's been lots of great advice onn repairig blisters here...one thing you have to consider is that this is a 25 year old boat worth perhaps...$2k??
Aside from the hundreds of $$ of materials you will need to make this really right...there is a lot of unpleasant labor involved and you have to put some value on that. If the blisters are as extensive as you seem to indicate, I'd try to do a cheap and dirty job that will keep ya good to go for a few years before the boat is trashed. I would sandblast below the waterline, throw on a couple of coats of barrier coat and a couple more of bottom paint and just go sailing! 
If you want to go for the right job...no problem...but I just thought I'd offer a contrary opinion! If you do decide to go ahead...check out thhis article on how you can do it without spending months waiting for the blisters to dry out:
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/blister4u.html


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Has anyone heard of hotair vacume used to speed the drying process? I have seen a few cryptic references to vacume drying, but no details and it seems to be something beyond us DIYs.


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*pictures*

Here are some pictures of the job ahead. As you can tail it is going to be along one. The bigger yellow box(the smaller of the two picture) is 1' square. The smaller yellow box (the bigger of the two picture)is a bubble if you will. It is about 2" across and 1-1/2" top to bottom and stands out about an 1/16 of an inch. I thank that water has gotten in between the layers of gel-coat and the glass to make this one. Anyway, it is going to sit for three mouths and dry out. I wrapped it up like a Christmas gift today. Just in time we got more rain this evening. Again thanks for all the help.

View attachment 49


View attachment 50


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Hi Sonny,

Unless you open the blisters there will be almost no drying of the laminate in that three month period. A partial cause of the blistering is that the outer raised surface of the blister isn't pourous enough to relieve the pressure building up, and so the pressure pushes the membrane away from the hull. With the membrane that forms the outside of the blister in place, very little water can pass through compared to with the membrane removed.

One minor suggestion, having seen the photos it would probably make sense to have a shallow peel and then grind out the deeper delaminated resin. On a boat like the Catalina 22, another suggestion, for what it is worth, it would sure be a lot easier to do the layup and grinding with the boat turned upside down. 

Jeff


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*Time*

after the boat has been peeled and the blister have been sanded, how much time will it she need to dry out. How about on here side I'm not to sure I can get her turned over. I have to do it in a self service yard or in my on yard. The marina want allow you to do this kind of work in the dry slip. You have to do it in there yard and of course there is a daily charge.


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Much of the drying time is dependent on the the depth of the blisters, the amount of resin lean laminate that you encounter, the climate, and the overall thickness of the resin. In the case of the Catalina I would expect two months or so as a proper drying time. 

Working with the boat upside down is much earier than right side up. Gravity is working with you rather than against you and the light is better. With keel out a roll over is pretty easy. Typically the DIY way of rolling a boat is to use a roll over rig, (two large plywood half circles that fit the hull and deck and which are braced to prevent collapse.) 

Jeff


----------



## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

*blisters*

Those pictures look just about like mine when I did it. I opened mine hith a Porter Cable sander with 60 grit paper.

Pigslo


----------



## foxglove (Dec 27, 2002)

*Cheapest way out*

I think the cheapest way out of this blister problem is to grind off the blisters and wait for a couple months as Jeff said. Then mix some epoxy with colloidal silica until it has the consistency of jelly, apply it with a flexible 4 inch wide plastic applicator, then roll on one two more coats of epoxy.

Those blisters look just like the ones I fought with this spring. I had my boat sand washed but I could have used a grinder. I used MAS epoxy because I got it cheaper at Boaters World. MAS epoxies has a help line (and the co-owners take call on weekends from their cell phones).

I coated almost the entire hull below the waterline with the coloidal silica/epoxy mixture. That's how many blisters I had. The MAS people told me that the first coat of epoxy seals the hull; the next few coats help protect from deep scratches. I applied a total of four coats but you could probably get by with two; that would save money. Epoxy is expensive.

Like Camaraderie said, you don't want to sinik a lot of money into a boat that probably will never be worth much if you wanted to trade up to a larger or newer boat.

Max


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*I'm Back*

Will it has been 3 1/2 months and I do believe it is time to start the work at hand. My only concern at this time is what type of tools I'll need. A grinder sounds like to much and hand sanding will take to long. What is in between the two, And orbital sander, a buffer with an 80 grit pad. If the lot of you have any input on this please Help.

Thanks.


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Sand blaster is probably the fastest, but be careful. Safer to use synthetic media, but more expensive. hope this helps.


----------



## captnnero (Jul 19, 2006)

TXS-ALAMO said:


> Has anyone heard of hotair vacume used to speed the drying process? I have seen a few cryptic references to vacume drying, but no details and it seems to be something beyond us DIYs.


I got some literature on that a few years ago. I don't remember the name of the product. It was not a DIY; it was available as a service only. They used a heated rubber rectangle of several square feet attached to a vacuum pump. I think it had to stay on for some hours before it was moved. My 34 boat is about 250 sq ft underneath so I can imagine how long that would take at current labor rates.


----------



## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

I'm in the tail end of this very repair on my C-27. I used the West System epoxy for the repair. For the grinding/sanding I purchased a 6" Porter Cable random orbit sander that is speed adjustable (used to be called a "DA") purchased at Lowes for about $140 a year ago. This is one of the greatest tools I've ever owned (I do part time carpentry in addition to my regular line of work). I pretty much followed the West System process for blister repair after doing months of research on how to do it. I too, have pretty much coated the bottom of the hull with the epoxy filler. One thing you want to make sure you do is wet out the blistered areas (once ground out) with straight epoxy (no fillers). Mine was so extensive that I just rolled the entire bottom with straight epoxy. Then went back and built up [as needed] with small rounds of fiberglass mat. Next was fairing with epoxy and colloidal silica (I used a structural mix rather than the softer "fairing" mix). I am presently in the process of sanding again to smooth it all out. Next will be a couple more coats of clear epoxy, then the Interlux barrier coat (2000E). Some day I'll actually get the boat painted!


----------



## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

One more thing I learned: timing is critical. Once the clear epoxy is on, you will want to be ready to get the fairing compound on before the epoxy gasses out and leaves amine blush. I found that scotch bright pads work, but are some kind of evil on your hands when trying to remove amine blush from inside a concave dimple. This was not easy and it only took one time for me to schedule so I could "fill" the same day, thus saving the need to remove any blush. Once the epoxy "kicks" fill the holes. I found doing a 3-4 foot section of one side of the hull worked really well. It's easy, just time consuming and kinda messy.

Good luck!!


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*Thanks*

Thanks for your help so far, When you used then West System epoxy what hardern did you use and at what time of the year did you do the work. It is about to get into the cold mouth here.

Again Thanks for your help.


----------



## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

Sonny, I'm embarrassed to answer that question. I purchased materials around this time last year anticipating cooler temps. I used the fast cure hardener. Unfortunately, stripping/sanding took way longer than anticipated and I ended up at the epoxy stage this summer. I used the fast hardener anyway. I had only one lost batch of epoxy (my first filler mix) due to it "kicking" too soon. By adjusting the amount you use you can control your waste very well.


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

*relatively simple procedure*



Faster said:


> Treating the blister problem is a relatively simple procedure ... .


Sometimes its simple and sometimes its otherwise.

The recent blister repair on a friend's SW42 from a well known Maine builder involved machine peeling the hull, replacing all of the wet Airex, and glassing a new bottom, requiring nine months, $15,000, plus a sailing season.

But perhaps this example is best saved for the next iteration of the hull coring-or-no-coring debate.


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*No Title*

Thanks for the info Parley, and for the insight Sailingfool. At this point I don't thank that I'll be taking it to a shop since most of them around here will be starting winter repairs soon. I thank that myself and my son will be doing the work together (Father son bond thing), it is just a matter of setting up shop.

On another note for Parley, Was your boat on jack stands when you did the work or a trailer, and how did you go about doing the area under said stand or bunk.


----------



## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

Sonny Oyler said:


> On another note for Parley, Was your boat on jack stands when you did the work or a trailer, and how did you go about doing the area under said stand or bunk.


Good question. It is on a trailer. I spent a bunch of time trying to figure this one out. Basically, I did the entire bottom sans under pads. Then went back and "dropped" the pads one at a time; repaired that area (sanding, grinding out pimples, clear epoxy, and filler) then brought the pad back up and moved on to the next one. That's the overall, 100,000 foot view. The reality is, I was also taking advantage at this point to also level the boat in preparation for striking a new water line. Also, I was not real comfortable dropping the rear pads without some reinforcement. I ended up attaching a "come-a-long" from stem casting down to the trailer. I also used some heavy duty ratchet straps (3-4" wide ones used for trailering the boat) from the primary winches down to the trailer when dropping the "front" pads. I adjusted these as necessary depending on where on the hull I was working. Worked out great except for the one pad shaft that slid back down inside its tube. 

Also, I forgot to mention a dynamite method for grinding out the blisters: Dremel tool. This made very quick work of it. So much so, that I ground out areas not blistered but could "see" a void below. Additionally, it is very easy to control.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Don't forget to wear the proper safety gear...goggles, respirators, gloves, etc... A tyvek bunny suit is a good idea if you don't want to be itching from the fiberglass for a few days.  Wearing that gear in the summer time is nearly lethal...but this time of year, it should be relatively comfortable.


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*Thanks*

Parley,
Again thanks for all the info, I'm looking to move her in the next couple of days and setting up shop to start work. I'll keep you up to date on how it is going. May the wind be to your back and the sun on your face, Good sailing to you. 

Sonny.


----------



## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

Definitely heed SD's advice regarding "covering up", ALL OF IT. I even went to far as to tape the tyvek suit closed at the wrists and ankles.


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*Update*

Hi everyone,
Will I have moved Sunnyside Up into a place were I can work on her with any problem from the dock master or the dry dock next door, my backyard.
She is still on her trailer but that is ok for now I can reach most of the area that need the work. I've put a canopy over her to keep out the weather.
I have started to sand her down and most of what look to blister are in fact a bad bottom-paint job. (were the paint dried with air behind it.) However there are some very big and very deep blister that are there. 
In my younger days I did car body work in a paint shop. When we had this problem (thin fiberglass that would make a hole if you tried to float it out to match the rest of the car) we would reinforce and build it up from behind and then lay and new layer of glass on the front and float it out smooth to match.
My question is do you thank that will work in this case. Any thoughts

Thanks 

I thank that I'm going to blog the repair work and post some picture as I go.


----------



## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

Sonny, congrats on taking the plunge. Best of luck with your project. Let us know if you post the process (I wish I had). Regarding your question, Dunno. Seems like overkill, but without really knowing the process nor the size/depth of the blister(s) nor the hull construction (cored/solid) it is impossible to address. My recommendation is to return it to its original intended construction. For me, this simply meant cutting out various size "disks" of fiberglass, wetting out, and using to bring any deep blisters back out to at least the outer most layers of original glass. I did this with the intent of my epoxy filler simply replacing the "lost" gel coat.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I would use parley's technique and suggest that the largest disks go on first... that way, when you're sanding it fair, you're not sanding through the fibers on the larger disks and weakening the patch by doing so.


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*Pop*

So I have sanded the foreword quarter of the starboard side, this is were some of the bigger blister are. My question is what is the best why to pop the blister without first putting a hole in the boat and second not getting the acidic fluid that is under pressure(200 psi according to West System Gel-coat Blister Diagnosis, Repair & Prevention book).

Anyway is it a grinding thing, a pock it with a sharp insterment thing, or just sand it down till the acid runs out and sprays you all over. 

Thanks.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Scraping the blisters is often a good way to open them up and get rid of the fluid inside relatively safely. You do need to be in a Tyvek bunny suit with face mask respirator and such for complete safety. Fiberglass is nasty stuff...and you will itch for days if you're not sealed up in a bunny suit. Needless to say, gloves and such are also a necessity. 

Electricity, powered grinders and sanders and high-pressure acid spray aren't a great combination in terms of safety IMHO.


----------



## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

*...goes the weasel*

Sonny, I popped mine with a utility knife. Luckily all mine were dry. I can only assume 1 of 2 things: 1) All blisters were due to air voids (unlikely, but possible); 2) The boat had been on the hard for almost 2 Sacramento, CA summers (we exceed 100 deg. often)(most likely). I also used the utility knife to "cut" away the blistered material. This was the method I finally ended up using. It was very easy. I was careful not to "dig in" to the substrate and pretty much let the blister decide what came off by holding the knife as close to parallel with the hull as possible. I tried a number of different methods including a dremel tool. That was pretty good, but way too easy to go deeper than necessary.

Fair sanding and following winds while you're at it.


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*Picture*

Here is the frist blister that I poped and pilled back. Man it is big and deep. The rest are a little smaller. Sanding is going good it is the poping that will take some time.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=198&stc=1&d=1162242790


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Not good...that blister is clearly into the laminate... UGH.


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

I wonder if just filling it will be what the Doc. ordered or is there more that will need to be done......


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

You'll have to grind it out to about a 12-to-1 bevel and then re-laminate with new fiberglass cloth and epoxy. Then sand and fair. UGH.


----------



## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

Been out sailing for a few days. Gotta love Fall in San Francisco! Albeit, the wind tends to lighten up this time of year.

sonny, that is definitely a deep blister. I had a few of these. These are the ones that I placed the "discs" of fiberglass cloth. SD has the methodology I employed.

Scarry putting divits in your boats hull, isn't it? I can say it left me with a bit of an uneasy feeling. Now that I am down to final fairing in prep for barrier coat, I can say this has been most fulfilling and my hull is now beautiful, smooth, and hopefully intact .


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The real problem is getting the damn hull faired out properly...


----------



## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> The real problem is getting the damn hull faired out properly...


Longstick. I have yet to go there as I just entered the final fairing stage. I've been dreading this as it seems it will take quite some time and elbow grease. Ugh.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

A hint from an experience boat builder i know... Use a long board (3-4' long) that is fairly thin and cover it with a section of belt sander belt, and put two handles on it. It allows you to sand a very fair curve.


----------



## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

Thanx SD!! Been wondering how/what. That clears up a bunch. I was down with the length, but was intending on 2x4 (thus, "elbow grease" indicated, above). From your post I'm thinking 1x4 now. I'm liking that idea, especially with 2, count em, 2 handles. Brilliant!


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Parley-

A 1x4 is going to be too thick.. you want something that is going to flex. They were using something about 3/8" thick.


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

*Long Board*



Parley said:


> Thanx SD!! Been wondering how/what. That clears up a bunch. I was down with the length, but was intending on 2x4 (thus, "elbow grease" indicated, above). From your post I'm thinking 1x4 now. I'm liking that idea, especially with 2, count em, 2 handles. Brilliant!


Actually you can buy gear designed for fairing hulls (and cars I guess):

http://www.shipstore.com/SS/HTML/MMM/MMM83497.html

Works great - the sheets velcro on/off, very easy to work with, and very resistant to the contaiminants usually present. I might be willing to part with mine if you can't get a reasonable deal online.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

That may work but it may also be too rigid to fair a smooth curve on a hull.


----------



## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

Roger that. Thanks, SD and Sailing Fool (thanks for the link). I think I'll make one as I have materials on hand.

Also, I wanted to post this link. This is a guy who rebuilds, refurbishes older boats. He's done 2 Pearson Tritons and is now delving deep into an Allied Seabreaze. He has documented each step in stunning detail complete with explainations, tools used, and copius photos. Check it out.
www.triton381.com


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*sanding*

it seam the more you sand the more you find. popingblister left and right.

Thanks for all the info.

Sonny.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

parley-

good site...thanks for the link.


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

sailingdog said:


> That may work but it may also be too rigid to fair a smooth curve on a hull.


I think for $50 they provide a product that has just the right amount of flex versus firmness - I got this product reference originally form one of the local hardcore racers. It is desigend to do this exact job...


----------



## Scott222 (Jan 6, 2006)

I assume you have a trailer and will be doing work with it on trailer. It would be best to remove it from trailer and have it on stands,but if not it is doable on trailer but a bit harder. I did the bottom once of C25 on roller trailer and just moved boat back and forth on trailer as I worked on it. It went well but don't let anyone kid you it is labor intensive. IMHO it would be better to open blisters ASAP and let the drying process begin...Good Luck...Dave


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*Bottom paint*

I know that this is into the future but I'm wondering about it now. Bottom paint after the gel-coat and what kind, hard antifouling, rosin based antifouling,fiberglass antifouling. The list just goes on. The real bad thing about all this is i want to keep the hull white, all the paints I've been looking at do not have that color. is there like a law that states you can't paint the bottom of your boat white.

Anyway just a thought.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

There are a few anti-fouling bottom paints that are available in white. The real problem with white hull paint is that any scum or growth really shows up quite readily and looks like crap. AFAIK, there are no laws regarding the coloration of boat hulls. 

The paint I've decided to give a try is CopperCoat, which is a hard-epoxy based paint that ends up being about 85% pure copper by volume when it is applied to a boat's hull. It is a multi-year paint and unlike some of the other anti-fouling paints, not adversely affected if the boat is hauled from the water.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

SD, is this the same paint that was once called CopperPoxy and advertised to last 10+ years? It was made on the NW coast and at one time had some difficulty with EPA approval. It had about the same percentage of copper and the color was ((suprise) copper!


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

TXS-ALAMO said:


> SD, is this the same paint that was once called CopperPoxy and advertised to last 10+ years? It was made on the NW coast and at one time had some difficulty with EPA approval. It had about the same percentage of copper and the color was ((suprise) copper!


I don't believe so...as this is an English product, and was imported from across the pond.


----------



## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

The paint you decide to use will be dependant upon 2 things: 1) where your boat is moored, and where you will be sailing, and 2) How you plan on using the boat (i.e. trailering, stay in water, trailering once in a while, etc...) The point here is if the boat will be hauled/trailered. You cannot do that with some paints. Check Practical Sailor mag. Last issue had a review of bottom paints by area. They seem to run this test every few issues and it seems to be ongoing testing. www.practical-sailor.com


----------



## essman (Jun 29, 2002)

What a difference one little letter makes....
For that web site, try www.yachtsurvey.com


----------



## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

Sonny Oyler said:


> Here is the frist blister that I poped and pilled back. Man it is big and deep. The rest are a little smaller. Sanding is going good it is the poping that will take some time.


Sonny-

That blister does not look super-bad (to me). You have it ground back to just beneath the 1'st layer of woven cloth (the structural glass) and if other blisters are no deeper than this you should be in fine shape. Typically strand-mat blisters dont cause major damage to the structural mat except where the strand-mat bonds to the first layer of cloth. If you look closely at the picture there is a dark edge along the interface between the mat and the cloth (along the bottom half of the circle). I'd be willing to bet that there is still some delam between the cloth and mat in this area; possibly around the top also. Try opening it up a bit further without grinding into the woven cloth to get rid of the delamination. If it goes much further than 1/2 inch from where you are now I would stop but usually it does not. Grinding out the delamination will reduce the chances of another blister forming between the mat and the structural cloth.

Also; keep washing down the hull, buy a $100 pressure washer and rinse the hull with fresh water every few days (unless you are applying epoxy). This will help the hull dry out by flushing out salt and allowing the styrene from the blisters to wash away from the open blister areas.

JMHO/HTH...


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*Pictures*

Here is a picture of one of the blister that I have fully grind out and faired down to 12to1. Let me know what you guys thank.
Also thank for the info KeelHaulin.

Oh by the that would be me in the Bunny-suit, I'm glad it has gotten cold here.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

That looks pretty good, but a bit uneven as it doesn't look centered... The bunny suit is important to preserve your skin and prevent the fiberglass from driving you crazy...


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*tapping*

do you thank that it needs to go more left. I have been tapping the outer part of the blister to see were the blister ends and the good laminate starts back up. The blister sounds hollow and the laminate sounds solid.


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*Picture repost*

I'm posting these again because for some reason that went away in an early post.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes, more to the left and up... It appears that most of the grinding and beveling has been done to the right. Ideally, the beveled area should center around the original blister as much as possible.


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

*Yet another one*

Here is another is this more of what it should look like?
Again I would like to thank everyone for all the help and info on this project.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Much better.  Looks much more evenly beveled.


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

Thanks, now I know that I'm doing it some what right. I'll fix the other one and make sure the rest are done right as will.

Again I can't thank you enough for all the help.


----------



## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

Sonny, those are looking pretty good. SD has it right, the beveled area should center around the blister as much as possible. Looks like you are well on your way. 

It's really kinda fun isn't it? I am finding much satisfaction/accomplishment from the entire project.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sailing Dog, I checked out CopperCoat on their web site and was quickly answered as to the cost of painting my 37 foot. They quoted about a thousand dollars for the paint and $440 for delivery of this "hazardous" material. Let us all know what your experiences are with this product. Thanks


----------



## SunnySideUp (Apr 8, 2006)

I would have to say it is very satisfying. I get much relief from the day's stress from just hanging out under the boat.

Thanks again for all the input.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

TXS- I will let you know how it works out.


----------

