# Best used cheap blue water boats 30-45ft



## bfloyd4445

I'm bewildered by the thousands of makes models designs that flood the sailboat market so decided to ask you sailors which you consider the best. At first glance it appears to me to be a westsail or similar design. What is your pick?


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## kwaltersmi

Define "cheap" please. Or, what's your budget?

Here's my personal list of favorite "affordable" (~$50k) bluewater sailboats.


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## bfloyd4445

kwaltersmi said:


> Define "cheap" please. Or, what's your budget?
> 
> Here's my personal list of favorite "affordable" (~$50k) bluewater sailboats.


 To be honest I would spend $200,000 on the right boat but I would like to fine an older solid blue water boat in the 20 to 60K range. Seems all I have looked at no matter what the owners claim are in need of considerable upgrade before they would be truly suitable for blue water cruising. In reality I will likely just use the boat to go offshore for the day or bottom fishing for rockfish halibut. My concern is that the Oregon coast has some real nasty bars and its possible to go out for the day but not be able to safely return for a day or more because of the weather. People are killed every year on oregons bars.

NOAA's National Weather Service Bar Cameras

thanks
Britt


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## sailingfool

bfloyd4445 said:


> I'm bewildered by the thousands of makes models designs that flood the sailboat market so decided to ask you sailors which you consider the best. At first glance it appears to me to be a westsail or similar design. What is your pick?


Generally the words cheap and bluewater dont go together well, unless you consider something like a Vega 27, pretty basic.

As to the Westsail, there are a number of lengthy threads on this board, take some time to read them.


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## MikeGuyver

There's a pretty nice Gozzard 36 for sale in Portland.


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## bfloyd4445

MikeGuyver said:


> There's a pretty nice Gozzard 36 for sale in Portland.


gizzard 36? never heard of them but I'll check it out
thanks
B

I checked them out and they are beautiful boats but cant find any on the west coast


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## scottie55

How about something like this:

1971 Tartan 34 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

A Tartan 34 for $9,500.


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## Alex W

bfloyd4445 said:


> I'm bewildered by the thousands of makes models designs that flood the sailboat market so decided to ask you sailors which you consider the best. At first glance it appears to me to be a westsail or similar design. What is your pick?


30-45' is sort of like asking for the best available land vehicles sized between vans and school busses. That is a huge size range.


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## seaner97

Look at a cabo Rico or tayana. Bet you can find one for around 50-100


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## seaner97

In spectacular condition, that is.


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## TQA

Swan 44 on offer in Tortola for 50k High hours Perky newish sails. Been raced I guess 3 repaired spis is a clue. Huge bonus in that it is a rare non teak deck version.

And it is a SWAN!


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## krisscross

Baba 30 1983 Baba Ta-Shing 30 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Morris 30 1980 MORRIS ANNIE sailboat for sale in New Jersey

I would take these boats anywhere in the world. If I had the coin I would buy that Morris in a heartbeat.


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## bfloyd4445

Alex W said:


> 30-45' is sort of like asking for the best available land vehicles sized between vans and school busses. That is a huge size range.


well some 30's are really 34's its all realitive to the manufacturers specs it seems. I'm tending towards 32 on the small size like a west sail or downeast 32. I think this would be a better size for single handling don't you? I just listed up to 45 because I really like the westsail 43 but it is a lota boat to handle alone


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## bfloyd4445

TQA said:


> Swan 44 on offer in Tortola for 50k High hours Perky newish sails. Been raced I guess 3 repaired spis is a clue. Huge bonus in that it is a rare non teak deck version.
> 
> And it is a SWAN!


thanks for the tip.
I just want a good solid cruiser not a race boat.


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## bfloyd4445

krisscross said:


> Baba 30 1983 Baba Ta-Shing 30 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
> Morris 30 1980 MORRIS ANNIE sailboat for sale in New Jersey
> 
> I would take these boats anywhere in the world. If I had the coin I would buy that Morris in a heartbeat.


I like the looks at both of them. The morris looks like it was made here and I like that. 
I should have added located on the west coast. Transporting overland is expensive and while I have the time to sail her being retired I have very very limited experience with sailboats just lots of powerboat time.

thanks


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## steve77

bfloyd4445 said:


> To be honest I would spend $200,000 on the right boat but I would like to fine an older solid blue water boat in the 20 to 60K range. Seems all I have looked at no matter what the owners claim are in need of considerable upgrade before they would be truly suitable for blue water cruising. In reality I will likely just use the boat to go offshore for the day or bottom fishing for rockfish halibut. My concern is that the Oregon coast has some real nasty bars and its possible to go out for the day but not be able to safely return for a day or more because of the weather. People are killed every year on oregons bars.
> 
> NOAA's National Weather Service Bar Cameras
> 
> thanks
> Britt


Well, if you're willing to spend the money how about this:

2002 Hallberg-Rassy 34 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Here's a review:

Hallberg-Rassy 34


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## bfloyd4445

steve77 said:


> Well, if you're willing to spend the money how about this:
> 
> 2002 Hallberg-Rassy 34 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
> 
> Here's a review:
> 
> Hallberg-Rassy 34


that's a nice boat for sure. Not what I would call cheap.

Just talked to a guy that sold his downeast 32 for 10K. The inside was gutted but the rest of the boat including a brand new motor was in good shape. Purchaser took off for San Francisco with it alone. Brave guy to do that this time of the year from Santa Barbra area. Wonder if he made it


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## Hudsonian

Perhaps you should consider a maximum age. Would you want the maintenance inherent in a 30 year old boat? Wouldn't it be an advantage to enjoy the benefits of improved boat design and better equipment in newer boats? Upgrading an older boat up to the standards of a more modern boat is likely to be prohibitively expensive

Don't dismiss the importance of boat speed as a safety consideration.

Reading the hints on buying a boat John Rousmaniere's The Annapolis Book of Seamanship


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## killarney_sailor

I think you should consider displacement and sail (and anchor) handling systems when considering boats to singlehand. For example, a Westsail 32 is almost 20,000 lbs while a CS36T, just for example, is closer to 15,000. The CS, and lots of similar boats, has a lot more space and is much faster. It is also a lot easier to handle under power getting into and out of docks. It is also a pretty rugged boat. BTW, not saying you should buy a CS, just that there are other directions to look.

As for systems, when it comes to things like winches and wind lasses, many boats have marginal ones since it was a good way for the builders to save money.


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## jgeissinger

if your intended uses are going "offshore" for a day, and also fishing, coupled with crossing Oregon bars, you really should be looking at powerboats.


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## krisscross

bfloyd4445 said:


> I should have added located on the west coast. Transporting overland is expensive and while I have the time to sail her being retired I have very very limited experience with sailboats just lots of powerboat time.


Don't get a boat that is too big for you to handle. I would say that 32' is the upper limit. I would also avoid big heavy whales like Westsail 32.

Here is another rock solid bluewater boat on the west coast: 2000 Nor'Sea Aft Cabin Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## JonEisberg

jgeissinger said:


> if your intended uses are going "offshore" for a day, and also fishing, coupled with crossing Oregon bars, you really should be looking at powerboats.


Exactly... It's _ABOUT FREAKIN' TIME_ someone pointed that out...

This is one of those threads at which I can only shake my head in amazement 

To the OP, seriously - do you have any idea what you intend to do with such a boat? Do you have a CLUE whether, indeed, "bluewater sailing" is really for you?

Sorry, but your parameters are so broad as to be useless... 30 - 45 feet, at least for me, runs the gamut from pretty much the minimum size in which I would care to venture offshore, to a size larger than I would ever want to own... A budget of $20-60K, but "you would pay up to $200K for the 'right' boat???" Sorry, but any serious yacht broker would not waste the time of day with you 

My first recommendation would be to actually DO some offshore sailing, and see if it's really anything remotely resembling what you imagine it to be... Every year, experienced sailors finish a trip like the Caribbean 1500 as their first ocean passage, and vow never to do it again, realizing coastal cruising/sailing is just fine for them...

Get some sailing under your belt, hopefully on a variety of boats, that's far and away the best way to make an informed decision... Don't be like the guy I met last year in Annapolis, bought an Island Packet for extended cruising, and potentially a circumnavigation... Spent an entire season, and untold tens of thousands $ more, in Annapolis prepping the boat, before FINALLY untying the docklines, and heading south... He made it as far as Solomons, turned around, walked back into the broker's office a couple of days later, and instructed him to re-list the boat for sale...

Seriously, do some sailing, take a charter vacation, whatever... just so you have some idea what it is you really want to do... jgeissinger is right, if running Oregon's bars is your primary concern, something like a Westsail 32 would be among the WORST possible choices you could make...


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## bobperry

"if running Oregon's bars is your primary concern, something like a Westsail 32 would be among the WORST possible choices you could make... "

Sure, but it could make for an exciting video.


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## MikeGuyver

Best boat for running Oregon bar.


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## bobperry

The Northwest School of Wooden Boatbuilding is building a Calkins designed BARTENDER right now. These double ended powerboats we designed for the bar.


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## smurphny

Wow, haven't heard the name Calkins in years. They were always synonymous with tough, seaworthy designs. I believe the CG even used them as heavy surf rescue boats.


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## bfloyd4445

Hudsonian said:


> Perhaps you should consider a maximum age. Would you want the maintenance inherent in a 30 year old boat? Wouldn't it be an advantage to enjoy the benefits of improved boat design and better equipment in newer boats? Upgrading an older boat up to the standards of a more modern boat is likely to be prohibitively expensive
> 
> Don't dismiss the importance of boat speed as a safety consideration.
> 
> Reading the hints on buying a boat John Rousmaniere's The Annapolis Book of Seamanship


boat speed is one of the factors that has kept me away from sailboats. I like having lots of power when needed crossing a bar and sailboats have scared me because of the teeny tiny engines.

I understand that design changes have been made over the year to improve speed but I'm not sure they have improved the safety aspect much if at all. Thinking about being at sea and caught in a storm got me to thinking about modern verses new designs. Most of the new designs have less wetted boat than the old ones which can be a disadvantage in heavy breaking seas. Now mind you I am just guessing based upon my powerboat experience as I have no sailboat rough water experience. Mu guess is more wetted surface means that the vessel is less likely to yaw. The extra wet area means more resistance to storm forces from above and that I would think would make for better control and a smoother ride for crew.
Am I out to lunch? If so please straighten me out.
New designs come closer to planning hulls and they can slid around pretty good in a storm and must be handled with lots of experience and power in a storm. The Satori proved that the old slow designs are most definitely very sea worthy did she not?
Maybe at 50kts one could outrun a storm but not at normal modern or old design sailboat speeds. I mean the catalina 34 is a fast boat, very popular, but I don't see them as cruseing boats just go fast daysailors. I love the inside of that boat and others like her and I'll bet they are fun to sail but I wouldn't feel as safe ofeshore in one of them as I would in an old Down East 32 or wetsnail would you?


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## TQA

BTW Another poster gave 32 feet as a comfortable top limit for single handing. 

Well I single hand my fast old lady a 44 ft cutter a fair bit. I am well into my 60s. Just snug the reef in early and keep an eye to weather for those pesky squalls. 

I think this is the most I would be comfortable with.


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## TakeFive

bfloyd4445 said:


> ...I mean the catalina 34 is a fast boat, very popular, but I don't see them as cruseing boats just go fast daysailors...


What????

Not designed as an offshore boat, but great at coastal cruising. Maybe a little bigger than needed for daysailing, IMO. And probably too big for singlehanding.


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## bfloyd4445

TQA said:


> BTW Another poster gave 32 feet as a comfortable top limit for single handing.
> 
> Well I single hand my fast old lady a 44 ft cutter a fair bit. I am well into my 60s. Just snug the reef in early and keep an eye to weather for those pesky squalls.
> 
> I think this is the most I would be comfortable with.


I like the interiors of the 38-43 foot boats but realistically for a beginner I think maybe the smaller 32 would be a better size to cut my teeth on. I am 66.
what model is your fast old 44ft cutter?


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## bfloyd4445

TakeFive said:


> What????
> 
> Not designed as an offshore boat, but great at coastal cruising. Maybe a little bigger than needed for daysailing, IMO. And probably too big for singlehanding.


I don't think she is to big to single hand if she is rigged right. What do I know though, you may be right. Nice boats and fast. But that hull shape would scare me if caught in a storm. With such a small wetted area she could slide around like a flat bottomed power boat but without the powerboats gobs of hp to make corrections. I see this hull style as needing a very experienced skipper in gale conditions


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## sailpower

This thread is hilarious.

I am surprised that anyone is taking the OP seriously.

This is a spoof, right?

What is the best sailboat for bottom fishing and running inlets? I can afford 200K of course but really want to spend 10K. I will be by myself for obvious reasons.

You actually got some responses. Well played.


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## bfloyd4445

sailpower said:


> This thread is hilarious.
> 
> I am surprised that anyone is taking the OP seriously.
> 
> This is a spoof, right?
> 
> What is the best sailboat for bottom fishing and running inlets? I can afford 200K of course but really want to spend 10K. I will be by myself for obvious reasons.
> 
> You actually got some responses. Well played.


I'm glad your enjoying it. But the fact is I am serious. And those are your words not mine. You twisted my words, but you got it right except I don't do inlets yet, just bars.. NOAA's National Weather Service Bar Cameras

....I think Inlets can be worse from the stories I have heard from up north.


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## TakeFive

bfloyd4445 said:


> I don't think she is to big to single hand if she is rigged right. What do I know though, you may be right. Nice boats and fast. But that hull shape would scare me if caught in a storm. With such a small wetted area she could slide around like a flat bottomed power boat but without the powerboats gobs of hp to make corrections. I see this hull style as needing a very experienced skipper in gale conditions


You notice that some people here are mocking you. The definitive statements you are making are way beyond your knowledge and experience. You really do need to get on some boats before your make these statements about hull shape, wetted area, etc. Until then you are just an armchair sailor.

IIRC, you've owned powerboats but no sailboat experience at all. FWIW, I would not recommend that you buy anything at this point. 30' is not a "small" boat, and is not a good boat for learning on. Boats that size and larger will give you delayed feedback when you make a mistake (and delayed feedback when you try to recover from it). You'll be much better off getting sailing lessons first, on a boat that punishes errors and rewards recoveries immediately. From your on-water experience, you'll have a much better idea what sailing characeristics you need in your first boat.

It appears that you are in a hurry to get to a really big boat, and this message board is littered with dozens of others who wanted the same thing and realized (tens of thousands of dollars later) that the reality did not match up with their dream.


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## bobperry

" But that hull shape would scare me if caught in a storm. With such a small wetted area she could slide around like a flat bottomed power boat but without the powerboats gobs of hp to make corrections. I see this hull style as needing a very experienced skipper in gale conditions"

Floyd:
You clearly know very little and then you say things like this. Are you kidding?I tend to side with Sailpower. I know you are having fun here pretending but you make it difficult to take you seriously.


But it's the internet.


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## bfloyd4445

krisscross said:


> Don't get a boat that is too big for you to handle. I would say that 32' is the upper limit. I would also avoid big heavy whales like Westsail 32.
> 
> Here is another rock solid bluewater boat on the west coast: 2000 Nor'Sea Aft Cabin Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


I love those trailerable nor sea's! That one is the nicest I have seen. But to be honest I want something a bit bigger for offshore. I know the rep of the ns 27 but the size does scare me a bit.
thanks much for the link. Was a treat to look at her.

I'll likely end up with an old beater westsail or Down East and then spend a fortune getting her fixed up. I've seen two sell for well under $10,000 in the last couple of weeks, one of each. I could put up to $35000 in one of those and she would be like new. The downeast was gutted but had new sails and rigging. The guy that bought it took off for SF from the LA area with it by himself so it was definitely sailable. Wonder if he made it? There are three westsails for saie in AU for 75-79k that have been completely gone through and are like new.

Might be smarter to buy something modern and newer like a pearson or catalina?

thanks everyone for your help.


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## bfloyd4445

bobperry said:


> " But that hull shape would scare me if caught in a storm. With such a small wetted area she could slide around like a flat bottomed power boat but without the powerboats gobs of hp to make corrections. I see this hull style as needing a very experienced skipper in gale conditions"
> 
> Floyd:
> You clearly know very little and then you say things like this. Are you kidding?I tend to side with Sailpower. I know you are having fun here pretending but you make it difficult to take you seriously.
> 
> But it's the internet.


Bob, what I know of sailboats you and others have taught me. What I based my thought above was on what I have been reading in, Storm Tactics, 3rd edition by Pardey. Also some others but that's the one I am reading tonight. As a matter of fact it was your comments in a different thread that got me thinking about the newer designs with less wetted area and I thank you for that.


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## JonEisberg

bfloyd4445 said:


> Bob, what I know of sailboats you and others have taught me. What I based my thought above was on what I have been reading in, Storm Tactics, 3rd edition by Pardey. Also some others but that's the one I am reading tonight. As a matter of fact it was your comments in a different thread that got me thinking about the newer designs with less wetted area and I thank you for that.


You need to read this book...

Some like Bob P might consider it slightly outdated in certain respects relative to more recent design trends, but it is still an excellent starting point...

Cruising Club of America


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## JonEisberg

MikeGuyver said:


> Best boat for running Oregon bar.


Well, her draft could pose a bit of a problem in some spots 

Power and speed is what I want for running inlets and crossing bars... The boys who run in and out of a place like Oregon Inlet have a pretty good idea what works best...










There's a lot to be said for that Carolina Flare...


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## bobperry

Jon:
I have that book and I keep it close at hand.

Loyd:
I think my point was, you are all, over the map with your questions. It seems you have no clue/clew? where you are going. It is starting to sound like meaningless chatter. Boat babble.


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## jephotog

bobperry said:


> It is starting to sound like meaningless chatter. Boat babble.


But that's what I come here for. I like the meaningfull boat babble as well.

To the OP, you should join this club.
Membership
If I lived in Portland again, I would join this club in a heartbeat. I wish I had an all you can sail club near me. I know I would get my money's worth out of whatever my dues were.

Learn to sail with them, learn more about sailboats, and find out if you really like sailing. If your real goal is to day fish outside the Columbia bar, you are really going to be better off with a powerboat.

Once you get on a sailboat you may find out its vastly different "sport" than powerboating. It is less about getting there than being there. Anytime the sail is up I am there. If it turns out sailing is for you. What you learn by being part of sailing club and taking a year to educate yourself might pay for itself many times over when you purchase your own boat.


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## TQA

bfloyd4445 said:


> I like the interiors of the 38-43 foot boats but realistically for a beginner I think maybe the smaller 32 would be a better size to cut my teeth on. I am 66.
> what model is your fast old 44ft cutter?


I will be gobsmacked if you have heard of the Company never mind the boat.

She is a New Bombay Trading Company Explorer 44 the centre board version. Despite the name it was a US boat builder based in Cay Largo and the yard went on to become Island Packet.


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## paul323

bfloyd4445, part of the problem is your size range and price range - you need to narrow things down a bit. Also, there are many capable bluewater boats, and in the end it will be your sense of aesthetics to decide on the final selection. For example, my favorites are Cabo Rico and Hans Christian. In particular for you an HC 33 could be a good choice.

You mentioned speed - as you may know, the longer a boat at the waterline, the faster she is. 

Personally I would focus on 32-38 feet, also looking up to 42 feet - the first part of that size range should be easily single-handed; boats up to 42' can be set up to single hand, but as everything is bigger, it is more difficult. And different sail plans (e.g Ketch) also effect this, so there are always "outliers" which could be excellent choices, but you need to narrow down the search initially, and 32-38 is a good starting point.

What I would do in your place - which is a totally awesome place to be in - money and desire for a new boat - is to start visiting brokers; walk around yards; research, research research! The more you build up your knowledge base, the clearer your decision will become.

Finally, as you narrow down your search, your focus will shift from a shortlist of boats you like to a final selection based on price, condition, and equipment installed/required. These factors will end up have just as large an impact - even larger - than a particular manufacturer.

Good luck!


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## Maine Sail

JonEisberg said:


> Well, her draft could pose a bit of a problem in some spots
> 
> Power and speed is what I want for running inlets and crossing bars... The boys who run in and out of a place like Oregon Inlet have a pretty good idea what works best...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a lot to be said for that Carolina Flare...


Funny I worked on a custom Buddy Davis fishing for Bluefin back in college. There IS a lot to be said of the Carolina flair....


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## bfloyd4445

JonEisberg said:


> You need to read this book...
> 
> Some like Bob P might consider it slightly outdated in certain respects relative to more recent design trends, but it is still an excellent starting point...
> 
> Cruising Club of America


thanks much, I will check it out.
Best wishes
Britt


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## bfloyd4445

Maine Sail said:


> Funny I worked on a custom Buddy Davis fishing for Bluefin back in college. There IS a lot to be said of the Carolina flair....


yehhh haa...I love fast powerboats. great pix thanks


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## steve77

TakeFive said:


> What????
> 
> Not designed as an offshore boat, but great at coastal cruising. Maybe a little bigger than needed for daysailing, IMO. And probably too big for singlehanding.


I just got my C34 this past year so I haven't done a lot of sailing on it, but I have taken it out singlehanded at it's no problem. Lines are all led back to the cockpit and I have an autopilot. Easier to singlehand than my old Pearson Triton.


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## bfloyd4445

paul323 said:


> bfloyd4445, part of the problem is your size range and price range - you need to narrow things down a bit. Also, there are many capable bluewater boats, and in the end it will be your sense of aesthetics to decide on the final selection. For example, my favorites are Cabo Rico and Hans Christian. In particular for you an HC 33 could be a good choice.
> 
> You mentioned speed - as you may know, the longer a boat at the waterline, the faster she is.
> 
> Personally I would focus on 32-38 feet, also looking up to 42 feet - the first part of that size range should be easily single-handed; boats up to 42' can be set up to single hand, but as everything is bigger, it is more difficult. And different sail plans (e.g Ketch) also effect this, so there are always "outliers" which could be excellent choices, but you need to narrow down the search initially, and 32-38 is a good starting point.
> 
> What I would do in your place - which is a totally awesome place to be in - money and desire for a new boat - is to start visiting brokers; walk around yards; research, research research! The more you build up your knowledge base, the clearer your decision will become.
> 
> Finally, as you narrow down your search, your focus will shift from a shortlist of boats you like to a final selection based on price, condition, and equipment installed/required. These factors will end up have just as large an impact - even larger - than a particular manufacturer.
> 
> Good luck!


I also like the HC 33, Cabo Rico? new to me will have to check them out thank you.

The reason for the wide range is I have seen 42=43 ft boats that I love and people do single hand them but thinking of me, zero experience with sail, seems like I would be better off starting with a boat at the 32ft end of the scale. I keep coming back to the old westsail 32's but most I've seen could use an complete refit. 
funny you should mention 32-38 because that's the conclusion I have also come to with my miniscule sail knowledge base.

I am more and more coming to the conclusion I should buy a solid hull and just have it refited by a reputable sail specialist from bottom to top. 
thanks again. gotta go look up cabo rico


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## bfloyd4445

this one is nice, I like pilothouse models

1990 Cabo Rico 38 Pilot Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## bfloyd4445

steve77 said:


> I just got my C34 this past year so I haven't done a lot of sailing on it, but I have taken it out singlehanded at it's no problem. Lines are all led back to the cockpit and I have an autopilot. Easier to singlehand than my old Pearson Triton.


c34? is that a catalina 34? If so I like them. My question is because of the bottom shape how they would do in storm conditions. I envision, and I remind you I know nothing of sailboats, that this sort of hull design would tend to have a bumpier ride in the rough as opposed to a full keel vessel


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## steve77

bfloyd4445 said:


> c34? is that a catalina 34? If so I like them. My question is because of the bottom shape how they would do in storm conditions. I envision, and I remind you I know nothing of sailboats, that this sort of hull design would tend to have a bumpier ride in the rough as opposed to a full keel vessel


Yes, a Catalina 34. I haven't had mine out in rough weather yet so i can't really comment from personal experience. I know quite a few of them have made ocean passages. I believe one poster here (georgeB) has sailed his from CA to Hawaii. If you're really interested you can get a ton of information from the user's association web site, c34.org.


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## bfloyd4445

steve77 said:


> Yes, a Catalina 34. I haven't had mine out in rough weather yet so i can't really comment from personal experience. I know quite a few of them have made ocean passages. I believe one poster here (georgeB) has sailed his from CA to Hawaii. If you're really interested you can get a ton of information from the user's association web site, c34.org.


good idea. I'll go check em out. thanks


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## vtsailguy

TQA said:


> Swan 44 on offer in Tortola for 50k High hours Perky newish sails. Been raced I guess 3 repaired spis is a clue. Huge bonus in that it is a rare non teak deck version.
> 
> And it is a SWAN!


The non teak swan is called a tartan


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## bfloyd4445

vtsailguy said:


> The non teak swan is called a tartan


tartan 44? I'll look her up that's


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## vtsailguy

Yes, the swan and tartan are based on the same boat. More here

Http://sailingwithkids.net/tartan-41


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## bfloyd4445

vtsailguy said:


> Yes, the swan and tartan are based on the same boat. More here
> 
> Http://sailingwithkids.net/tartan-41


that's a racer, not a cruiser.....She is a nice vessel but I think being a beginner and plan on single handling much of the time I should stick to maybe a tartan 37 or even a wetsnail 32<smile>. I found a nice Down East 32 at a reasonable price which is a solid built boat I may go look at.


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## bobperry

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## bfloyd4445

bobperry said:


> Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Bob, your not a grumpy old man you have just been playing with the same toys too long and need a change


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## bobperry

FLOYD:
One minute it's a Westsail the next it a Catalina. Maybe a Huntert?
Crossing the bar?

I think you are doing way too much talking and far too little sailing.
Time to get out of the basement and into a boat.

Too much talk, not enough sailing.


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## Don L

If I had a boat for sale, I would be sure to tell the OP that boat is the one he should buy!


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## vtsailguy

My bluewater Tartan 41 will be for sale in spring 2015


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## bobperry

Tartan 41? 
Perfect!
Conga rats Floyd. We found you a boat.


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## Maine Sail

Has anyone else noticed the the vast majority of sailboats, that sail in rough weather, actively, like in the Roaring 40's, are go fast, flat bottom, deep fin/bulb keeled, spade rudder boats that actually plane? While most "cruisers" purposely avoid those conditions these light weight, go fast race boats purposely set out into the worst of the worst over and do it over and over again.... They are also often SIXTY+/- feet and in many races single-handed..... 

But yet we must have a West Sail because its a "cruiser".....

Just an observation..... 


BTW my buddy Bruce, who is all of about 5' 4" tall, single handed his, non-cruiser, open sixty around the world, much of it in the Roaring 40's SOLO, and then did it TWICE.........


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## bobperry

Maine:
Are you talking about Bruce S.?
He used to stop by my office on his way home from school so he could play my guitar.


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## bfloyd4445

bobperry said:


> FLOYD:
> One minute it's a Westsail the next it a Catalina. Maybe a Huntert?
> Crossing the bar?
> 
> I think you are doing way too much talking and far too little sailing.
> Time to get out of the basement and into a boat.
> 
> Too much talk, not enough sailing.


 you know Bob, your right. ..as a matter of fact I haven't done any sailing, unless you count playing around with a dinghy sailing


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## Faster

bfloyd4445 said:


> you know Bob, your right. ..as a matter of fact I haven't done any sailing, unless you count playing around with a dinghy sailing


Which, unfortunately makes this discussion rather pointless, doesn't it? I applaud your desire to start sailing, but you really do need to get some experience and gain more understanding of what's involved before starting a shopping list.

Hang out at a nearby yacht club, do some racing, learn what goes with sailing bigger boats and you'll have a better idea of what to ask and what to look for in a boat when it's the appropriate time. This wouldn't appear to be that time.

Your described usage for 'offshore' (which doesn't sound like my idea of 'offshore') is most certainly better suited to power rather than sail...


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## paul323

bfloyd4445 said:


> you know Bob, your right. ..as a matter of fact I haven't done any sailing, unless you count playing around with a dinghy sailing


bfloyd, there are lots of folk here who have already given you good advice. However, given your last statement, I want to revise my last suggestion. For now, drop the idea of a bluewater boat - they are expensive, often complex, and require experienced sailors. Go and buy a coastal cruiser, 30-32' - Tartan, Pearson, Catalina; just look around, buy a good one for perhaps $20K-$25K. Sail it, live on it, especially maintain it. In a year or two's time you will know if you want to spend $100k+ on a bluewater boat, and you will know what to look for.

Act now, buy something decent, and you answers will come to you.


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## Maine Sail

bobperry said:


> Maine:
> Are you talking about Bruce S.?
> He used to stop by my office on his way home from school so he could play my guitar.


Yes, did the 5' 4" give it away...? I'm short too so I'm allowed to make short jabs....

Oh and you taught him well he is a tremendous guitar player.. He is talented at lots of stuff and a great guy to boot....


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## bobperry

I was almost killed in an Oregon bar back when I was about 20 years old. Our band was playing at a town on the Columbia. I think it was White Salmon. It was on an Indian Reservation. The bar was full of Native Americans. Just for fun I bet $20 that our roady could beat any Indian at arm wrestling. We met in the back room after the gig, a half dozen indians, one really big one and the band with Bryce, our roady. Bryce and the indian locked arms and held each other for what seemed like half and hour. Then Bryce, said, "Are you ready? And then slammed the indian's arm to the table effortlessly. The indians were very good sports about it. But Bryce wanted to kill me for setting up the bet. He wasn't feeling good that night. Oh, I hear you floyd. You have to be very careful in those Oregon bars.


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## Faster

bobperry said:


> I was almost killed in an Oregon bar back when I was about 20 years old. Our band was playing at a town on the Columbia. I think it was White Salmon. It was on an Indian Reservation. The bar was full of Native Americans. Just for fun I bet $20 that our roady could beat any Indian at arm wrestling. We met in the back room after the gig, a half dozen indians, one really big one and the band with Bryce, our roady. Bryce and the indian locked arms and held each other for what seemed like half and hour. Then Bryce, said, "Are you ready? And then slammed the indian's arm to the table effortlessly. The indians were very good sports about it. But Bryce wanted to kill me for setting up the bet. He wasn't feeling good that night. Oh, I hear you floyd. You have to be very careful in those Oregon bars.


Um.... where's the 'GROAN' button???


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## bfloyd4445

Faster said:


> Which, unfortunately makes this discussion rather pointless, doesn't it? I applaud your desire to start sailing, but you really do need to get some experience and gain more understanding of what's involved before starting a shopping list.
> 
> Hang out at a nearby yacht club, do some racing, learn what goes with sailing bigger boats and you'll have a better idea of what to ask and what to look for in a boat when it's the appropriate time. This wouldn't appear to be that time.
> 
> Your described usage for 'offshore' (which doesn't sound like my idea of 'offshore') is most certainly better suited to power rather than sail...


I have power boats, owned them for over 45 years, with the cost of fuel they don't get used like they used to and they have been getting smaller and smaller. Smaller is more economical. I hate small no room for beer<smile> I'm not afraid of the sea and all sailboat have an engine which turns them into powerboats. Yes I know they respond differently but every boat I have never owned responds differently than every other so no big deal.
I guess offshore to me is less than fifity sixty miles out and your right, that's considered costal I think? I guess what I didn't mention was I wanted a bluewater boat for costal use mostly day sailing. But you know, I am attracted to the idea of going out far enough that no land can be seen, no traffic, no tv, no nothing except the sea and my vessel. Peaceful and in tune with nature. Is that bad?
And, to end this I wish ti thank everyone, including Bob, for being patient with me and offering constructive critisisum, tips, advice, which I assure you is appreciated. Would be fun to organize an event where we all could meet in person.


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## Tenoch

bobperry said:


> I was almost killed in an Oregon bar back when I was about 20 years old. Our band was playing at a town on the Columbia. I think it was White Salmon.


If I had a nickel for every time I almost died in an Oregon bar...well...who am I kidding, I would probably go buy another drink with it.


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## bobperry

Floyd:
It's been a blast. You can take it with a good sense of humor. I respect that. Drive on up here and we can sit in my office and talk boats all day. I'll cook you a good dinner.


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## bfloyd4445

Tenoch said:


> If I had a nickel for every time I almost died in an Oregon bar...well...who am I kidding, I would probably go buy another drink with it.


Last year the net was saying that the most dangerous job was no longer fishing in Alaska but Oregon crap fishing because of the loss of life crossing those bars.


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## capttb

> an engine which turns them into powerboats.


Both a blessing and a curse at times.


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## bfloyd4445

capttb said:


> Both a blessing and a curse at times.


I've often wondered at that and soon I will find out


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## Tenoch

I work in local News here and the loss of life is actually really rare. The USCG does a really good job of closing the river bars when it is too rough, and rescuing those who get into trouble.


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## bfloyd4445

Tenoch said:


> I work in local News here and the loss of life is actually really rare. The USCG does a really good job of closing the river bars when it is too rough, and rescuing those who get into trouble.


In Oregon they shut down coast guard station to save money. But, the fact is they do an outstanding job considering the resources available


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## bfloyd4445

Tenoch said:


> I work in local News here and the loss of life is actually really rare. The USCG does a really good job of closing the river bars when it is too rough, and rescuing those who get into trouble.


when I talked to a coast guard guy at Coo's Bay last year he told me that when the the small craft advisory only applied to craft under 40ft.


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## Donna_F

bfloyd4445 said:


> when I talked to a coast guard guy at Coo's Bay last year he told me that when the the small craft advisory only applied to craft under 40ft.


On the USCG site you will no longer find any reference to what is meant by "small craft." It used to be 65 feet and under back in the day. Now it more or less says if you think you aren't capable of handling the weather, don't go out.

Also, the NWS issues small craft advisories, not the CG, and each NWS station around the U.S. has its own definition of what determines a small craft advisory (each has different wind speed, wave height, etc.)


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## bfloyd4445

thanks Donna. Makes sense


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## kwaltersmi

Try this Baba 30 that was recently listed here on Lake Michigan. Not sure if she's right for fishing and crossing the bar, but bluewater sailors call her Mrs. And Bob knows her well.


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## Gary M

bobperry said:


> Tartan 41?
> Perfect!
> Conga rats Floyd. We found you a boat.


No way this guy has not earned a Tartan 41!!


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## bobperry

"Oregon crap fishing "

We need to have a long talk.


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## Tenoch

You've obviously never tried Oregon Crap Bisque, it's good sh#t
.


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## bfloyd4445

kwaltersmi said:


> Try this Baba 30 that was recently listed here on Lake Michigan. Not sure if she's right for fishing and crossing the bar, but bluewater sailors call her Mrs. And Bob knows her well.


nice looking boat. Thanks


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## casey1999

What about a Macgregor 26. She can do 20 knots under power- you could run a bar:

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2004/Macgregor-26-2629984/Thailand


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## bobperry

Casey:
That is brilliant!

Floyd can call the dealer and ask "How fast does it go? and they will have an answer.
It will probably be something like, "Really fast."


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## capttb

Wow, from a Tartan 41 to a Baba 30 when the right answer is a Spork. 
My dad used to say "a camel is a horse as designed by a committee".


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## rgscpat

killarney_sailor said:


> ....As for systems, when it comes to things like winches and wind lasses, many boats have marginal ones since it was a good way for the builders to save money.


Wow, I had no idea this was builder-supplied equipment! It must be a powerboat thing, since I see lots and lots of them on the adverts for go-fast boats.

Would you have some pictures to show me the difference between marginal and more fully-featured "wind lasses"?

I do perfectly understand that, in general, it's never a good idea to try to save money on the "wind lasses", and this is a classic case of "if you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford one".


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## capttb

Yeah, you don't want to be caught on a cold night with a marginal wind lass.


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## bfloyd4445

casey1999 said:


> What about a Macgregor 26. She can do 20 knots under power- you could run a bar:
> 
> https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2004/Macgregor-26-2629984/Thailand


yeah and smash into the jetty! what are you trying to do put me outa my misery?


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## casey1999

bfloyd4445 said:


> yeah and smash into the jetty! what are you trying to do put me outa my misery?


How about this little baby:
Pearson Alberg 35 Sailboat

Price is right


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## casey1999

bobperry said:


> Floyd:
> It's been a blast. You can take it with a good sense of humor. I respect that. Drive on up here and we can sit in my office and talk boats all day. I'll cook you a good dinner.


Floyd,
I would take Bob up on that offer. I would swim across the freakin Pacific if Bob made that offer to me.


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## mattt

casey1999 said:


> Floyd,
> I would take Bob up on that offer. I would swim across the freakin Pacific if Bob made that offer to me.


That's a good idea. I'm in Bob's hood, I should start a wild thread and see if I can get a nice meal out of it.


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## bfloyd4445

casey1999 said:


> How about this little baby:
> Pearson Alberg 35 Sailboat
> 
> Price is right


yes, nice little boat thanks


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## bobperry

Casey:
You can come up any time you like. My shack is open to sailors. My wife is used to it.
" Do you know this guy?"
" Not really, but he's a sailor."

Of course I might show up at your joint with my bags too.
I suspect we will be comning to Hawaii soon.


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## casey1999

bobperry said:


> Casey:
> You can come up any time you like. My shack is open to sailors. My wife is used to it.
> " Do you know this guy?"
> " Not really, but he's a sailor."
> 
> Of course I might show up at your joint with my bags too.
> I suspect we will be comning to Hawaii soon.


Bob,
Come by and stay anytime you like. I live up on North Shore Oahu (45 minutes from Honolulu airport- I'll pick you up. Boat at Haleiwa Harbor. We can go sailing and you can teach me and talk of boats. Bring the wife.
I will send you a PM of my contact info.
Aloha


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## twomikes

Local Library may have this book:

_Twenty Affordable Sailboats to Take You Anywhere Nestor, Gregg (Book - 2007)

In Twenty Affordable Sailboats to Take You Anywhere you will find in-depth reviews of twenty affordable,comfortable, and seaworthy sailboats.These boats range in size from 30-38 feet,an ideal size for the cruising couple,yet big enough to accommodate an occasional cruising hitchhiker or two. All of these boats were once prominent offerings, designed by some of the world s leading naval architects and produced by reputable manufacturers. These boats are still readily available in the used boat market._


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