# Malo 45' loses rudder, pulls an All is Lost



## CalebD

Sail-World.com : Sailing crew's battle to save yacht lost in the Indian Ocean


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## killarney_sailor

I think the captain of this yacht did an exceptional job of describing what happened. I guess we will never know what happened to break the rudder away from the skeg and Malos are well-built boats. I think that sometimes discussions on sailing forums about shtf can be a bit on the simplistic side as are the comments about you can be prepared for anything and everything.

My sympathies to the couple who lost their boat. Sounds like they were insured which is good.


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## JonEisberg

Well, I guess the skeg didn't afford much in the way of structural integrity this time... What a shame, as KS said, Malos are beautiful boats built to a very high standard, must have been something a bit 'exceptional' to have occurred with this one...










that part of the Indian Ocean around the top of Madagascar sounds like one nasty bit of real estate... Another very high quality Swedish yacht, a Sweden 45, was lost to the identical cause in those waters a year or two ago...

Sounds like the skipper and crew gave it a good fight, all around the situation seems to have been handled admirably. Probably the only thing that could have saved that boat, would have been to have the rudder post isolated from the rest of the boat by a watertight/collision bulkhead...

On a boat of that size, certainly not impossible to achieve... One of the features that distinguishes a true 'Bluewater Boat', in my opinion, are true collision compartments fore and aft. But those are surprisingly uncommon even today, as it often compromises the amount of interior volume dedicated to that all-important Accomodation Plan... One of the downsides of aft staterooms in general, and in particular those taken right out to the transom, is the difficulty of isolating the rudder post in such a manner, short of some sort of transom-hung rudder solution...

Some stern garages can serve the purpose well, but I've run boats with garages that didn't even take the trouble to make the bulkhead watertight, leaving open conduits for wiring and plumbing runs, and so forth.. What the hell are they thinking?

Not all that many designers/builders think like Steve Dashew, obviously...


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## Group9

Sorry they lost the boat, but it sure sounds like they were a competent crew who did pretty much everything that could be done to save it. Sure reads better than a lot of attempts you read about where they abandoned the boat way early.

One common denominator I am starting to notice, or think I am noticing, is the use of the autopilot in heavy seas, before rudder loss. Perhaps a human, taking hold every once in a while, would be more apt to notice the strains on the steering gear before failure. One of the nice things about the old fashioned belt and pulley autopilots was that they usually give way before the rudder did when strains get too much. That happened with mine one time in some seas that were hitting the boat from a bad angle. If I had had a stronger autopilot, I wonder if my rudder would have broken first instead.


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## MedSailor

Good read, thanks for the link. Interesting that there was no great big "bump in the night." I wonder if they snagged a fishing net or something like that and the conditions with the extra drag caused the failure. 

The only thing I could think of to do differently would be to cut away the rudder. With there being no lower pintle it "could" drop free, leaving a more static hole to try and fill. Still, that'd take some stones to cut your own rudder off....

MedSailor


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## eherlihy

MedSailor said:


> The only thing I could think of to do differently would be to cut away the rudder. With there being no lower pintle it "could" drop free, leaving a more static hole to try and fill. Still, that'd take some stones to cut your own rudder off....


My thought too...

I am not sure how many of you have seen this video (from the guy that runs the yard where I keep my boat), but this is what I would have attempted;
www.youtube.com/embed/ABSCT7y9vnI

[EDIT] it seems that video embedding does not work anymore... Follow the link on HOW TO STEER WITH A DROGUE.


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## MedSailor

Thanks for the video. I think the main issue was the in-flooding of water from the rudder working from side to side, enlarging the hole. At one point in the article he was talking about how everybody was too busy bailing to work on alternative steering setups.

Makes me think something like THIS is a really good idea.

MedSailor


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## killarney_sailor

Jon, the really nasty bit at the northern tip of Madagascar is actually quite close to the tip. They were still (was it) 500 miles from there. I thing they just got some ordinary crappy weather. Our experience in the Indian Ocean is that it just windy all the time 25-30 knots and then you get depressions spinning off the South African that head NE.


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## Alex W

I know it's hard to be there and easy to play armchair skipper.

I had the same thought as MedSailor: Why not try to jetison the rudder? Then there is either no hole or a small hole to worry about and you at least have a floating island while you figure out the next part of the plan. The rudder wasn't helping them at all.

If I ever have a skeg boat I hope that the rudder stock and bearings are beefy enough to handle failure of the skeg. That doesn't seem to be an uncommon failure point.


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## knuterikt

How easy do you think it is to just drop the rudder in conditions like that.

I have dropped the rudder on my boat two times, the first time I had to apply heat to the bolts on the quadrant to move them.
Second time was easier since i used Duralac on all the SS parts when I assembled it.

Both times the boat was on dry land....

On a boat like this (Malö 45') after loosing the lower ruder attachment it would probably be hanging by the rudder quadrant and maybe some other hardware (autopilot tiller arm)
This is how it looks like on my boat with spade rudder, so in my case it the rudder is hanging by the top bearing.









Going into a space like that to screw out these bolts while the boat is moving around and the rudder shaft is doing it's best to crush you.

Maybe they could have used ropes to stabilize the rudder, but just dropping it..


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## eherlihy

Med - I don't think that the 120V bilge pump would help much in this situation. I believe that the inefficiency in running the inverter makes a 120V pump inadvisable. I know that the USCG has high velocity (150 GPM) gasoline pumps that they can drop to a stricken vessel. Here are some pix;

























My thought was; IF it were possible to drop the spade rudder safely, to do so (it would be on my O'day - but then again, my O'day would NEVER be 500 miles from land) and thereby stop the rudder shaft from damaging the boat further. Once the shaft was away, you would be left with a hole at, or near, the waterline that would now be the top priority. The boat would probably also begin to yaw wildly... Your first priority once the rudder was jettisoned would be to plug the hole with a throwable PFD, a sail, anything...

Therefore; the sequence of events would be to; contact the CG, prepare the evacuation plan, rig the drogue, drop the rudder, plug the hole, contact the CG, and if possible - limp to port.


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## Group9

Has anyone ever experimented with something like this stuff for a hole in a boat away from the dock? Carrying a few cans to use to stop catastrophic leaks. I know it expands and dries really fast and is hard as hell to get off stuff once it is dry.










At the point you were realizing you couldn't stop the water and were going to have to abandon a boat anyway, what could it hurt to try and use a can or two to stop a leak?

(I know this is arm chairing, but I have used this stuff a few times and it is kind of amazing the way it works. I think I'm going to buy a can and do some experiments with it).


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## MedSailor

knuterikt said:


> How easy do you think it is to just drop the rudder in conditions like that.
> 
> Maybe they could have used ropes to stabilize the rudder, but just dropping it..


I expect it would be slightly harder than postulating from my armchair, that's for sure.  I was imagining cutting the shaft. I've done that with a 1.5" stainless prop shaft and it isn't easy. You'd also be using 110V tools in close quarters with lots of water. Or finding a lot of motivation while using a hack saw...

I think I like your rope to stabilize the rudder idea better.  Depends on the boat though. My formosa didn't have much rudder stock above the bearing, so there wouldn't be enough leverage to do anything useful.

As for the gas powered pumps, as a recovering wooden boat owner, I've eyeballed those for years. True, it is completely independent of other systems, but I don't like the reliability issues of a small gas engine, with varnished up gas, being stored in a salty bilge, firing up when you really need it. Heck, I have enough of a hard time starting my mower after a winter...

The electric ones have less parts to go wrong, though you are dependent on your generator (if you have one) or inverter. My new boat has both, so there is some redundancy there... I wouldn't worry about power inefficiencies though as I expect you'll be running a generator or engine while all this is happening. They make the electric ones pretty big too. Many hundreds of GPM with 2" outlets.

The gas one, if maintained and tested regularly, is a better option, but it also involves another item to scrupulously maintain and test. It involves storing and rotating gas (which I have avoided so far) and is bigger and heavier. Tradeoffs. I like the middle of the road solution of the 110V pump for my boat, but if I were still on a wooden boat (shudder) I would have the gas powered pump for sure.

MedSailor


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## MedSailor

Group9 said:


> Has anyone ever experimented with something like this stuff for a hole in a boat away from the dock? Carrying a few cans to use to stop catastrophic leaks. I know it expands and dries really fast and is hard as hell to get off stuff once it is dry.


Yes. The second video at about 8:00 is when they test the foam idea. These two videos are required viewing BTW. 










MedSailor


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## knuterikt

Group9 said:


> Has anyone ever experimented with something like this stuff for a hole in a boat away from the dock? Carrying a few cans to use to stop catastrophic leaks. I know it expands and dries really fast and is hard as hell to get off stuff once it is dry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the point you were realizing you couldn't stop the water and were going to have to abandon a boat anyway, what could it hurt to try and use a can or two to stop a leak?
> 
> (I know this is arm chairing, but I have used this stuff a few times and it is kind of amazing the way it works).


In my Navy days we had exercises where we stopped water leaks.
We did this on a FPB that where holed and put on land but with water supply on the outside so it was quite realistic...

The problem with that stuff is that you must be able to keep it in place while it hardens - else it would be washed away. It could be used together with other techniques.


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## Capt Len

My experience with gas powered pumps (especially other peoples) has been less than encouraging. The vessel I had in the Beaufort had a large capacity centrifugal pump belt driven from the prop shaft (idler pulley if you don't want to risk losing a finger) Never used it but you never know when dancing with ice. Thane didn't have enough room for a similar setup so I relied on a 2 inch impeller on an electric clutch and a 110 sump pump which has the advantage of being portable .Never used it either but had 3 wt bulkheads and a long strong keel under it all.


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## killarney_sailor

When we were in Australia they were selling a dense, putty-like material to stop leaks. I forget the name of it. It looked quite promising but was not cheap. Don't think it would have helped with this boat's problem since the moving rudder post would just push it away. I think one of the problems with a serious leak is that there can be a lot of different situations. Having a hole like on those videos is entirely different from this one at the rudder post. Saying you have a leak strategy for all occasions just does not work.


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## Group9

killarney_sailor said:


> When we were in Australia they were selling a dense, putty-like material to stop leaks. I forget the name of it. It looked quite promising but was not cheap. Don't think it would have helped with this boat's problem since the moving rudder post would just push it away. I think one of the problems with a serious leak is that there can be a lot of different situations. Having a hole like on those videos is entirely different from this one at the rudder post. Saying you have a leak strategy for all occasions just does not work.


Yeah, we're just hot washing it. The one silver lining to an incident like this, is that it makes you consider what you would do if it happened to you, and gives you the luxury of time, to do it in.

I'm sure these guys have replayed in their head a hundred times and come with several things they wish they had tried, or been prepared to try. I admit the idea of a rudder coming loose and causing this type of damage never occurred to me before this incident. I just figured the worst would be it falling off and having to plug the hole it left and then figuring out how to steer the boat.


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## MedSailor

killarney_sailor said:


> When we were in Australia they were selling a dense, putty-like material to stop leaks. I forget the name of it. It looked quite promising but was not cheap. Don't think it would have helped with this boat's problem since the moving rudder post would just push it away. I think one of the problems with a serious leak is that there can be a lot of different situations. Having a hole like on those videos is entirely different from this one at the rudder post. Saying you have a leak strategy for all occasions just does not work.


Best to have a big bag of tricks and start using them one at a time, and quickly!!

Something from the medical profession that I keep abord the boat is 3M Scotchcast fiberglass casting tape. Basically, you open the package, dip the roll in water, apply the tape and a couple minutes later you have solid fiberglass. Seems like it could come in handy. For the rudder, you could just pound the whole roll into the hole.

They also make a slightly less rigid casting material that can be cut with EMT shears called "Scotchcast soft cast". For actual casting purposes aboard this would be infinitely preferable because cutting a regular cast off without a specialized saw is difficult, and if the extremity swells, it can die if the cast isn't cut off.

They also market the same stuff to vets, probably much less expensive too. Though the human grade stuff isn't too expensive either....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnvDLnVDKCw#t=174

Buy them here, split a box with your buddy. 
https://www.mooremedical.com/index.cfm?/Scotchcast%20-Conformable-Splint/&CS=HOM&FN=ProductDetail&PG=CTL&PID=4159&spx=1

MedSailor


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## christian.hess

nothing like isolated watertight bulkheads and compartments

if I could id apply james baldwins atom site for a lot of these scenarios.

the reality though is most of us just cant or wont do it...its a lot of work, especially on a boat with big systems.

in any case, always sad to see a boat go down....

peace


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## smackdaddy

This is why I would never have a boat with a skeg-hung rudder. They're deathtraps. Spade only, thank you.

Seriously, I think Group's comment above about the autopilot in rough seas is likely more a culprit than anything else in these rudder failures. In our recent 150-mile off-shore run we had 8'-12' seas left-over from a big blow (though the winds were down to 20-25knots when we headed out). We were in a Pearson 365, with the seas on our starboard bow - and a ram-drive autopilot engaged. The seas eased over the next 24 hours...BUT...

Early the next morning, in seas of only 6' or so, the boat curved off-course. We corrected and re-set the AP, only to have it happen again. I opened the lazarette and saw the problem...the drive unit had been ripped off its base. I was glad that was the weak link.

The conditions were sporty - but certainly not that bad. There is obviously a lot of force going on with the AP. And this would certainly explain many of the rudder failures we've seen recently.

I have a ram-drive on my boat. I won't be using the AP in heavy seas. I'll hang on a drogue. I've learned my lesson.


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## Group9

MedSailor said:


> Best to have a big bag of tricks and start using them one at a time, and quickly!!
> 
> Something from the medical profession that I keep abord the boat is 3M Scotchcast fiberglass casting tape. Basically, you open the package, dip the roll in water, apply the tape and a couple minutes later you have solid fiberglass. Seems like it could come in handy. For the rudder, you could just pound the whole roll into the hole.
> 
> They also make a slightly less rigid casting material that can be cut with EMT shears called "Scotchcast soft cast". For actual casting purposes aboard this would be infinitely preferable because cutting a regular cast off without a specialized saw is difficult, and if the extremity swells, it can die if the cast isn't cut off.
> 
> They also market the same stuff to vets, probably much less expensive too. Though the human grade stuff isn't too expensive either....
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnvDLnVDKCw#t=174
> 
> Buy them here, split a box with your buddy.
> https://www.mooremedical.com/index.cfm?/Scotchcast%20-Conformable-Splint/&CS=HOM&FN=ProductDetail&PG=CTL&PID=4159&spx=1
> 
> MedSailor


I had forgotten about that stuff. The last time I broke something (my elbow), they used that stuff and as they were putting it on and watching it harden, I was thinking the same thing, that this stuff could have a lot of other uses besides medical casting.

Have to get me some!


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## Donna_F

I'm following this thread because a Malo is going to be our next boat. I read their blog from the beginning, when they started out from Sweden in 2007. They had autopilot problems that delayed their start and had autopilot problems periodically over the next several years.

What I think you're saying (correct me if it's wrong), is that the autopilot forced the rudder to keep functioning even after there may have been a problem with the rudder, so that what might have been a small issue and easy to fix (maybe, maybe not) became what it did because it wasn't fixed and wasn't noticed?


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## MedSailor

To play devil's advocate here, why would an autopilot that is working hard produce forces that are any different than a servo pendulum windvane that is working hard? 

I could see a trim tab windvane or separate vane like the hydrovane being different, but the gold standard for heavy weather steering is the servo-pendulum which uses water forces applied to the rudder quadrant (usually transferred through the wheel) to steer the boat.

MedSailor


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## Group9

DRFerron said:


> I'm following this thread because a Malo is going to be our next boat. I read their blog from the beginning, when they started out from Sweden in 2007. They had autopilot problems that delayed their start and had autopilot problems periodically over the next several years.
> 
> What I think you're saying (correct me if it's wrong), is that the autopilot forced the rudder to keep functioning even after there may have been a problem with the rudder, so that what might have been a small issue and easy to fix (maybe, maybe not) became what it did because it wasn't fixed and wasn't noticed?


That, or the seas were putting a lot of strain on the rudder, that the AP was just dealing with by brute force, where a human steering in the same conditions, would have probably decided to try out some alternate courses, sail plans, etc. to get that strain off of the rudder.

As I alluded to earlier, I don't think it's good for the weakest link in your AP-rudder system to be the rudder. Better to have the AP break first and a case for having an AP that is actually undersized for your boat.

If that's what even happened here, which we don't know.


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## christian.hess

ive seen a lot of cases of the ap overriding and causing damage to quadrants, gears, breaking stuff etc on cruising boats

its important to design a weak link in the attachment point bewteen the ram arm and steering quadrant or whatever method you have down below...a sacrificial pin can and will save you from damage

while aps mostly sail better and straigher than a human what an ap will never have (yet( is eyes...

it stlll cant see when it has to let go in cases and give it all its might...thats why Im adamant on steering by hand in heavy seas having a watch looking aft at all times if you have crew(big trades) or all around on other points.

back in the day of moitessier this meant a dome and hand steering inside...

most pendulum windvanes get overpowered and end up giving a cheek to big rollers causing in many cases an unwanted broach...

I clearly remember pushing the tiller hard over, or pulling with all my might at an aries tilller steered boat when in really heavy seas or waves...it just needed more help did fine 99 percent of the time.

the autopilot worked well it was an under deck ram arm...but the owner refused to use it from experience in these situations fearing damage to one part or another of the steering system or in fact overworking the AP.

just saying


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## MedSailor

I think the real takeaway here, that we're all missing is that this never would have happened to a Brent Swain (tm) boat. 

MedSailor dives for cover!


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## outbound

Don't know the sea state in this scenario. Sailing in 8-10' with 25-35kts. is what this boat is made for. Malo, although now defunct, has an excellent rep. There is not unlikely another piece to this puzzle. Many spade rudder boats ( mine included) have post go into very heavily built structure which rises to or slightly above waterline. Similarly, given the predominance of APs there is usually a thought out transverse or heavy fore/aft stringer appropriately placed to accept the baseplate of the AP and install of AP achieved in fashion to transfer loading to that stringer.
Offer the following thoughts
I want the linkages in the AP at least as strong as the direct drive linkages going to my wheel. Although, there is a emergency tiller if the wheel steering fails I expect to go to the AP before the emergency tiller. I will not often hand steer below 10' seas or 35kts. To tiring unless you have enough crew to take 15m shifts. Save it for when weather worsens ( which some how it always does). I will hand steer in those circumstances if surfing frequently and changing sensitivity of AP doesn't allow appropriate handling of the boat. Boat and systems should be robust enough to handle this set of conditions.
I suspect the layup between the partial skeg and the canoe body failed. On this site in other threads many have casted aspersions about balanced spade rudders. They should call this most unfortunate event to mind. Suspect loading on a full skeg would even be higher. All to often the rudder is holding the skeg on not the other way around. Yes if the spade falls out as the boat works even if passage ends above water line a lot of water is going to come in. You need to prepare for that possibility. Would note rudder failures of various sorts seems to be at the top or near the top of the list when hearing about boats retiring from the various rallies.

Give BS his due- Something to be said for the old gudgeon and pinion system hung off the back of a double ender. If done right pretty d-mn strong. If it falls off no hole in the boat. Impossible to have it not cavitiate Hard to steer if loaded. Still simple and robust


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## killarney_sailor

It is too bad that we can't see the boat to know exactly what did happen. I can think of a few possibilities.


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## deniseO30

One would think with rudder failures being so common, more people "out there" would be or try to be prepared. But then, if the rudder didn't fail maybe the whole stern would be ripped off a boat! No easy answers. So how much went down in cost? $300 K?


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## miatapaul

DRFerron said:


> I'm following this thread because a Malo is going to be our next boat. I read their blog from the beginning, when they started out from Sweden in 2007. They had autopilot problems that delayed their start and had autopilot problems periodically over the next several years.
> 
> What I think you're saying (correct me if it's wrong), is that the autopilot forced the rudder to keep functioning even after there may have been a problem with the rudder, so that what might have been a small issue and easy to fix (maybe, maybe not) became what it did because it wasn't fixed and wasn't noticed?


My thought was that as the rudder stock started to break and twist and break the rudder collar and packing gland the auto pilot kept crunching it as it did not know it was doing damage. A person hand steering may have noticed a change in the feed back and take a look before too much damage had been done. A hydraulic ram or even an electric motor with a good bit of leverage can give quite a bit of torque.

Not sure but I don't think a wind vane would have exerted as much pressure. But I don't think they work well in confused seas anyway do they?


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## killarney_sailor

miatapaul said:


> Not sure but I don't think a wind vane would have exerted as much pressure. But I don't think they work well in confused seas anyway do they?


I guess it would depend on how confused the seas were. If the boat is actually moving a wind vane should provide the standard feedback to the wheel. If the boat is just sitting there and bobbing (or bouncing) around the vane won't work. If the waves throw the boat really badly of course the vane will turn its maximum until the apparent wind on the vane changes. I would think that a powerful AP would be doing its best to get the boat back on course which of course isn't going to happen if the sails are not providing some drive. I assume these folks turned off the AP as soon as they discovered the problem, but at that point AP, vane, hand steering are not going to do much to help the situation with the lower part of the rudder banging around.


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## Classic30

Of course, TD Wombat Esq. has a Malo - and, in all my years of sailing, I've not been on a better designed or built cruising boat, ever, really, seriously - and I'm a tad surprised he hasn't piped up here yet.

FWIW, I can't see they did anything wrong in this case and think that they certainly would have had a better chance to save the boat if the rudder had simply fallen off - which it, unfortunately, didn't. Certainly, if the '43 is anything like the '39, securing the rudder in any kind of sea would be a very dangerous exercise and probably fruitless also - it's the wrong shape, in the wrong place and with the wrong mountings for any of that.

I will say I don't remember there being a lot of helm 'feel' on TD's Malo (it's not a racing yacht), so it could be tricky for someone who was a guest on board (their guest was apparently on watch when the incident started) to notice anything wrong even if the AP wasn't in control.

I'm starting to appreciate my keel-hung outboard rudder more and more!


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## Group9

Yep. Sometimes, things just break, and there's not much you can do about it.

It makes me think of what is referred to as the "Jesus" nut in a helicopter (it holds the main rotor blades on). If it fails, only Jesus is going to save you.


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## JonEisberg

Classic30 said:


> Of course, TD Wombat Esq. has a Malo - and, in all my years of sailing, I've not been on a better designed or built cruising boat, ever, really, seriously - and I'm a tad surprised he hasn't piped up here yet.
> 
> FWIW, I can't see they did anything wrong in this case and think that they certainly would have had a better chance to save the boat if the rudder had simply fallen off - which it, unfortunately, didn't. Certainly, if the '43 is anything like the '39, securing the rudder in any kind of sea would be a very dangerous exercise and probably fruitless also - it's the wrong shape, in the wrong place and with the wrong mountings for any of that.
> 
> I will say I don't remember there being a lot of helm 'feel' on TD's Malo (it's not a racing yacht), so it could be tricky for someone who was a guest on board (their guest was apparently on watch when the incident started) to notice anything wrong even if the AP wasn't in control.
> 
> I'm starting to appreciate my keel-hung outboard rudder more and more!


The owner of a Malo 41 has chimed in over on CSBB...

Interesting...

Hadn't heard about it, quite a story, I can add to speculation


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## Classic30

JonEisberg said:


> The owner of a Malo 41 has chimed in over on CSBB...
> 
> Interesting...
> 
> Hadn't heard about it, quite a story, I can add to speculation


Interesting indeed.. having bits of your boat underwater fall off without notice is pretty scary, really!! 

A little armchair-thinking here, but perhaps people setting off on serious cruising adventures would be well advised to go over all possible failure scenarios and other peoples' reported failures and work out back at the dock if there's anything they could do to mitigate it? I know from their books that faulty rudders and rudder-repair-underway is something that both the RKJ and the Hiscocks countenanced - and had to carry out at one point - and it seemed to me that both selected keel-hung outboard rudders for this reason.

...but it's true that you can't cover everything.. and Murphy's Law is no respecter of persons.


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## christian.hess

if thats the way the shoe is attached you can count on vibrations being it...wow

I dont disagree with that method but like bolts and nuts on motorcycle engines and parts especially exterior ones loctite is your friend.

that is a mighy small skeg there too!


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## tdw

Oh my. Sorry folks but the Wombet and I are in the process of moving house, ergo my absence. I have couple of thoughts on this, we dropped our rudder out this year cos I thought it felt and sounded a bit odd but will have to wait until we are settled for more detail.


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## tdw

Quick PS ... just read the CSBO post and I'm thinking he is on the money.


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## MedSailor

Classic30 said:


> Interesting indeed.. having bits of your boat underwater fall off without notice is pretty scary, really!!
> 
> A little armchair-thinking here, but perhaps people setting off on serious cruising adventures would be well advised to go over all possible failure scenarios and other peoples' reported failures and work out back at the dock if there's anything they could do to mitigate it?  I know from their books that faulty rudders and rudder-repair-underway is something that both the RKJ and the Hiscocks countenanced - and had to carry out at one point - and it seemed to me that both selected keel-hung outboard rudders for this reason.
> 
> ...but it's true that you can't cover everything.. and Murphy's Law is no respecter of persons.


May I suggest a book? Very good technical breakdowns of the errr... breakdowns that happened in the book. My copy was drowned recently and is a "total loss". Fitting eh?

Total Loss: A Collection of 45 First-hand Accounts of Yacht Losses at Sea with a Summary of the Lessons to be Learned: Jack Coote: 9781574091465: Amazon.com: Books

MedSailor


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## Classic30

MedSailor said:


> May I suggest a book? Very good technical breakdowns of the errr... breakdowns that happened in the book. My copy was drowned recently and is a "total loss". Fitting eh?
> 
> Total Loss: A Collection of 45 First-hand Accounts of Yacht Losses at Sea with a Summary of the Lessons to be Learned: Jack Coote: 9781574091465: Amazon.com: Books


Med, may I remind you that I own an old (historic even) wooden boat? If I was to read that book, I'd likely never leave the dock.

.. although, if I was feeling particularly nasty, it might make a nice Christmas present for Mrs Wombat.


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## MedSailor

Classic30 said:


> Med, may I remind you that I own an old (historic even) wooden boat? If I was to read that book, I'd likely never leave the dock.
> 
> .. although, if I was feeling particularly nasty, it might make a nice Christmas present for Mrs Wombat.


Hehe... As a recovering wooden boat owner, I understand. 

This one is positively brilliant though. If you haven't read it, as a wooden boat owner, you must!










MedSailor


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## Capt Len

Loved it. Met Farley back when we both were looking for a jack boat in Newfie. His search was 'successful'. I bought a GTO in Detroit.


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## tdw

Classic30 said:


> Med, may I remind you that I own an old (historic even) wooden boat? If I was to read that book, I'd likely never leave the dock.
> 
> .. although, if I was feeling particularly nasty, it might make a nice Christmas present for Mrs Wombat.


Ms.


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## Classic30

tdw said:


> Ms.


Oops!! sorry... 

Happy sailing.


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## Plumbean

How many rudder bearings does the Malo have? Or for that matter, what is typical for a skeg hung rudder?

On my boat, there is a shoe at the bottom of the skeg that is bolted through the skeg, with loctite on the bolts and then with an epoxy fairing compound over the entire shoe assembly, so I would not expect to have the bolts vibrate out. I then have a rudder bearing where the rudder post enters the hull, and another one where the rudder post comes up through the cockpit and the tiller is attached. Given this, my expectation was always that if the shoe failed, I still had two rudder bearings that would avoid the scenario that seems to have occurred here, where the rudder moved laterally to the point where it tore a hole in the boat. So what is typical (if there is such a thing)?


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## MedSailor

Locktite is a good idea, but I'd also be tempted to drill a hole in the bolt and seize it in place somehow. Of course, you wouldn't want to weaken the bolt....

MedSailor


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