# Another liveaboard family in the making?



## svartsvensk (Jul 29, 2009)

Greetings all, first time poster, long time reader. What an incredible community. I'd have posted this in the "intros" section, but I have a whole slough of questions about living aboard still (most of my initial questions have been answered by Cap'n Google and your forum here, the two of whom seem to be old mates).

Here's our situation. Family of four - Me, the wife, the boy (18 months), and the wolf (9 year old dog ~80 lbs, mostly fur  ). Currently we're lubbers in LA, pissing away perfectly good income on an apartment when we could be putting it into an awesome boat. My wife just got a tremendous job opportunity in DC, and we're about 90% certain we're moving there to take it. We want to take this opportunity to break from land and the huge pile of junk we've accumulated! Life here has been getting more and more complicated - we just want to simplify what we can, and put some energy and money towards something beautiful and fun, instead of another landlord's pocket.

Goals are primarily to own something, and to be paying for something that's OURS, instead of someone else's. A top goal of mine is to have a boat we can cruise on, it's been a lifelong dream of mine to sail all over this great blue world. Her job is due to last about a year and a half, during which time I will be raising our son, working occasional odd jobs, working on the boat, and honing my sailing skills so that when her job is done with, we can take a nice long cruise somewhere. I know there are costs to boat ownership, and I am prepared to sacrifice that money and labor to Poseidon for the opportunities it brings. I'm hardworking, a very fast learner, and as one born and raised in San Diego, I know a thing or two about boats and the ocean, though I'm certainly no salty sailor. (I've taken two or three sailing courses in my youth, involving sub 20' boats and catamarans on the open ocean) Mainly this means basic proficiency with sailing, knots, terminology, courtesy, and fiberglass repair (mostly done on surfboards).

In discussing my dreams with Admiral SWMBO, the ideas of ownership and the freedom from clutter have really taken hold, though the idea of sailing far and wide just doesn't seem real/possible to her yet (though I am confident it will eventually dawn upon her as a real possibility), but it is certainly something she would like to do. The sacrifices at first seemed daunting, but we have both been very encouraged by reading the experiences of those who have already taken the plunge so to speak.

Now, onward to my questions.

How long does a 15 gallon holding tank take to fill up? Anyone have any experience with treatment systems? Are they a real bear to integrate? Are they really sanitary/environmentally sound?

Any suggestions for vaccum cleaners? I was thinking a mini-wet/dry shopvac. With our dog, it's a necessity.

Aftermarket shipborne heaters and AC - what sort of price range can I expect to find on these? Where can I begin looking? Are there any used ones out there?

Speaking of heating - I've read that most people use propane, electricity, and diesel heaters. No love for the old fashioned wood stove? Does this have more to do with fuel storage than anything else?

Sailing to DC - the boat I'm hoping to buy is in Florida, and I'll have to sail it there. I won't purchase it unless it's up to snuff, but it was surveyed a year ago and since, well maintained. How can I find bridge clearances for the Chesapeake and Potomac?

Speaking of the boat I'd like to buy, anyone ever lived aboard a Kettenburg 40'? Anyone in the Tampa Bay area feel like having a look over it with me when I fly out? Know of any good third-party surveyors that I can trust? If anyone wants to sail to DC with me, I'm open to the suggestion, and could sure use the company!

Home-entertainment systems - I'm lucky to have an HD projector and awesome surround sound here in my apartment, I know those will have to go. ...but has anyone set up a flat-panel HDTV and small surround speakers? Any suggestions about what's better in the confined spaces of a boat?

Computers - should I stick with my laptop only? Or try to integrate a desktop in somewhere, using the TV as a monitor? Should I chuck my Playstation3 in favor of a blu-ray drive for the computer?

Mooring in DC - Eventually we'd like a slip, but we're willing to live "on the hook" for awhile until we sort that out... I read here that you can moor for free or very cheap for up to two weeks at a time off the gangplank marina; does that mean we'll need to find another place to stay for one or two nights a week? Where else could we moor in or around DC?

Toolkit - I'm going to need to pair down my set of tools. What do you think are the essentials I'll need to bring? (preliminary list: Sander, drill, circular saw, reciprocating saw, jigsaw, worklight, wrenches, drivers, planer, torque-wrench, hammer, ball-pein hammer, rubber mallet, steel drift, wood chisel)

Any good car parking solutions in DC or Arlington that don't require a slip at the marina?

Any good DC area DIY yards where I can haul her and work on it when I need to?

Building a bimini - how hard is this? Anyone done it? I'd like to give it a go, any advice?

Dinghy's - is sail/row ok? Or is something with a motor really that crucial?

Winter - Ice. Freezing river. What, if any, mods do I need to do to my boat to account for this?

Firearm safety and storage aboard - where are the best places to keep the ship's armory?
_________________________________

Ok, I think that's about it for now.  Sorry for the massive list. If something has been discussed to death on another thread, feel free to refer me or let me know what to search for. There's lots to wade through, and though I've found answers to many other questions already, I'm striking out on some of these.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Most of what you list looks to me to be workable, though I think I fell asleep about 1/2 way through! I am thinking about much the same as you. 

Remember that a boat deprecates. If you get an old boat that is mostly or all the way deprecated at least it will stay about the same. I was lucky and sold my house before the housing bubble burst, I made a big chunk of change, but if you subtracted the property and school tax I really did not make much. Just remember that a boat will have double the maintenance of a house, and drop in value. As long as you are OK with that then you should be fine. Financing is tough in the boat market as well now. 

Biggest issue is what does you spouse think? That is the biggest complicating factor. If she/he is not 100% on board you might want to rethink the whole thing. In my case I am divorced so it is not an issue. I think I finally have my children excited about the whole concept. 

From reading here it looks as though DC has some good live-aboard options. The best marinas will be about an hour commute out of DC proper, but that will likely be true for an apartment that would be in a child friendly neighborhood anyway. 

Just don't think it will be cheaper than a home or apartment. About the same I think. Tool thing I understand fully, what am I going to do with a big air compressor on a boat?, where will the table saw go? Waht do I do with my rolling tool chest? But I am planning on keeping my garage for at least a couple of years, in fact the only reason I am where I am now is that I can rent a garage.


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## svartsvensk (Jul 29, 2009)

Thanks for the reply miatapaul! I think I may have to get a small storage unit in DC to house some tools, though the drill press and other very large items will have to be sold.

We're leaning towards the Gangplank which will only be a mile and a half from where she'll be working, an easy metro ride or bike ride away.

The boat I'm hoping to buy is a 1960 Kettenburg 40', built in San Diego (just like me), from White Oak and Cedar. I like Fiberglass boats just fine, but there's something... I dunno, PRIMAL about wood. Tried and true, I guess. I just love wood, but if I can't snag this boat, I'll go for a different one. I've seen comparable boats going for over 30k, and this one's 20k, with a clear survey too. If I can maintain that value (and since it's bridging the gap from "old" to "classic", I think I can), I'll be thrilled!

As to whether the wife is 100% onboard... she's close. REAL close. Probably 95%, and getting closer every day. Once she sees the Ket in person, I think she'll close the gap. Those boats are PRETTY.

-K


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

My wife was not 100% on board initially but I already lived on my boat. I told here this is where I live and I am going cruising, get used to it or move on 

We honeymooned by signing on as crew on a square rigged sail training ship for a three week voyage from Vancouver to Kailua-Kona Hawaii. She signed on for an additional three week voyage to Fiji then served as delivery crew to bring the 70 foot traditional schooner Spike Africa to Kauai from San Diego. She was well and truly hooked after her first taste of blue water sailing.

Living aboard in a marina is a different matter.

If you want to someday go cruising, do not borrow money. None. No mortgage to buy a boat. No credit card purchases of gear. Save and pay as you go. Forget the power tools. Rent (Or better yet borrow) what you need when you need it. Sell everything and put the money away. Then when you do cast off you won't have to worry about it.

Just my opinion based on twenty years of living aboard and cruising.

Video logs

Web site link below


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

How long does a 15 gallon holding tank take to fill up? Anyone have any experience with treatment systems? Are they a real bear to integrate? Are they really sanitary/environmentally sound?

about a week or so if living aboard and you are carefull, but most marinas have bathrooms

Any suggestions for vaccum cleaners? I was thinking a mini-wet/dry shopvac. With our dog, it's a necessity.

thats what i have on board

Speaking of heating - I've read that most people use propane, electricity, and diesel heaters. No love for the old fashioned wood stove? Does this have more to do with fuel storage than anything else?

yup storage is a lot of it, ashes are more

Sailing to DC - the boat I'm hoping to buy is in Florida, and I'll have to sail it there. I won't purchase it unless it's up to snuff, but it was surveyed a year ago and since, well maintained. How can I find bridge clearances for the Chesapeake and Potomac?

NOAA it works just like google earth

Speaking of the boat I'd like to buy, anyone ever lived aboard a Kettenburg 40'? Anyone in the Tampa Bay area feel like having a look over it with me when I fly out? Know of any good third-party surveyors that I can trust? If anyone wants to sail to DC with me, I'm open to the suggestion, and could sure use the company!

if this is next month or so i will come along but be ready to hid from a storm

Home-entertainment systems - I'm lucky to have an HD projector and awesome surround sound here in my apartment, I know those will have to go. ...but has anyone set up a flat-panel HDTV and small surround speakers? Any suggestions about what's better in the confined spaces of a boat?

sorry its time to sell the projector and surround sound. the mount a lcd and use computer speakers for more sound

Computers - should I stick with my laptop only? Or try to integrate a desktop in somewhere, using the TV as a monitor? Should I chuck my Playstation3 in favor of a blu-ray drive for the computer?

yup laptops are nice because of the low draw, when you get the tv make sure it takes a computer input to use the laptop as your dvd player. then get a large usb extrenal drive for storage incase the lap top dies and to store movies. some do build purpose built computers using 12 volt car power supplies, i guess with a wire less mouse and keyboard and a mini tower it would work. here is the nice point, i make a pretty good boat sparky, with refences

Mooring in DC - Eventually we'd like a slip, but we're willing to live "on the hook" for awhile until we sort that out... I read here that you can moor for free or very cheap for up to two weeks at a time off the gangplank marina; does that mean we'll need to find another place to stay for one or two nights a week? Where else could we moor in or around DC?

dont forget annapolis and area, better parking and only an hour in traffic away

Toolkit - I'm going to need to pair down my set of tools. What do you think are the essentials I'll need to bring? (preliminary list: Sander, drill, circular saw, reciprocating saw, jigsaw, worklight, wrenches, drivers, planer, torque-wrench, hammer, ball-pein hammer, rubber mallet, steel drift, wood chisel)

you need 3 tool kits
a mechanical one with wrenches and stuff
a wood kit, ie chisels and stuff
then the big kit with the stuff you dont need unless its a big job, this stays in storage

Dinghy's - is sail/row ok? Or is something with a motor really that crucial?

in annapolis get a slip, dinghy is not really needed, but get a motor if you will be going more than a mile a day

Winter - Ice. Freezing river. What, if any, mods do I need to do to my boat to account for this?

it does not get too bad down here normally, and most marinas put out deicers

Firearm safety and storage aboard - where are the best places to keep the ship's armory?

well then stay away from DC as you will go to jail in DC if they even find ammo on you, in your boat or in your car. i suggest you pair the collection down if its over 3 guns, or get a safe and bolt it in families house some where. virgina has shall issue CCW, maryland no way and DC i said it already


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## msl (Jul 4, 2001)

Just a thought - for local cruising. Perhaps this would work for you? Join a local Potomac sailing club for the Wednesday afternoon races ("canvas' fix)?

1971 Grand Banks Classic Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## SVCarolena (Oct 5, 2007)

I've lived in DC for about ten years, and had a sailboat for the past three. I have not lived aboard, so I can't speak to those specifics, but I have done a lot of research. So here are my thoughts:



svartsvensk said:


> How long does a 15 gallon holding tank take to fill up? Anyone have any experience with treatment systems? Are they a real bear to integrate? Are they really sanitary/environmentally sound?
> 
> 15 gal. won't last long with two adults and a child living aboard. It think a full week is pushing it. Treatment systems do work (such as Lectrasan) and are sound, but they require electricity and salt water. If you are in DC, the water is almost fresh.
> 
> ...


Look, you have a great dream and plan, but you really need to think this through. It is not as easy as you might think, and DC isn't really live aboard friendly. I love this city, and highly recomend you take the opportunity to live here, but I think you may be better off renting a small appartment and saving for the boat. If you can live frugally on land you will save money and it will be a good way to prepare for life on board. And if you live in the city, ditch the car and walk or use metro - you can always rent a car if you need it or join something like zipcar. Just my two cents.


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

Hi - you're asking a lot of the right questions. I've got a desk job in DC and currently live aboard a 33' sailboat in a marina, with spouse, no pets, no kids. We moved here from Michigan and jumped at the chance to ditch the house and the stuff and move aboard - sounds like your scenario - and never, never looked back.

Others have pointed out the problems with living aboard in DC - consider Annapolis area, 5 minutes to good sailing, 45 min to DC (much more during rush hour - BUT - there's a great commuter bus to downtown) many liveaboard-friendly marinas including several DIY. You'd be surrounded by a community of other boaters you can learn from.

Others have answered a lot of your specific questions; but here are a few more thoughts.

Heat/air conditioning - there are heat pump units that are 2-in-one, heat and cool using saltwater, around $2000. When the water temp gets into the low 40s, these aren't very efficient; most of the marina liveaboards supplement with small electric space heaters.

Use a laptop; for sound, install automobile stereo and play the laptop through it. 

In season, you can get your holding tank pumped out by a pumpout boat that comes to you for $5. (and/or use the marina bathroom)

Costs: well, we would have had to find a place for the boat anyway, so it doesn't really compare. A high-end slip here will cost as much as a low-end apartment, figure $5-$10K/yr depending on size of boat and marina amenities. But then again, remember that you'll be doing every day what others pay to do on vacation! PM me if you do decide to go for it, we can put you in touch with others. Liveaboards with small kids are rarer, but they're there.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Ok, I have lived aboard with kids and two dogs. I made somewhat of the same plunge, but will give you my experience(s). They are very opinionated, but have been there and done that. Of interest (I hope) to you is that we are soon to do again, hopefully.

Now, here goes:

#1) 15g holding tank will not last long at all. I think ours was 25-30g for me and Kris and we could go through that easily in a week. Chase was in diapers. So add another user in (who probably will not flush economically), and I sincerely doubt you will make a week. And remember, you don't get the full 15 gallons. We always try to stop and pump out when ours is about 80% full. Because if you over pump and get poop/tp in the vent tube from the head, it is a absolute nightmare. In essense, I would add a blader or something to get to an easy 25-30g's of holding.

#2) The dog will be a major PITA. MAJOR. And you better make sure he/she can go up and down the steps on their own and get off the boat on their own. The dog, of everythign you have mentioned (except maybe the baot) will be the biggest headache. Sorry, it's true. Go check out the many cruising/LA with dog threads here. And let's also remember that even though that dog may be able to get on/off now... if they cannot in the future you are in for big trouble or may have to put the dog down early. We can discuss this in legth if you want, but between that and taking it out 2-3 times day and the sever restrictions on pets in even many marinas, and where they are going to go to the john when it is raining, icing or snowing, the ability to get on/off the boat and the dink, and the fact that most countries do not want them in their territorial waters (much less their shores) - you are in for an eye opener. Research this matter heavily. We ended up getting another dog, but I honestly regret it. I am pretty sure she will have to find another home before we get seriously cruising. And we have not even mentioned whether that dog will get sea sick. You won't know till you are out there. Research this heavily and use your heart AND YOUR HEAD in making the final decision.

#3) We use a small wet/dry vac which is close to a mandatory on a LA boat. You will have to run generator or large inverter to power.

# 4) We have not lived aboard in the cold climate, but the current boat is in a lake and it get quite cold for us in the winter (below freezing). We use both the R/C air cond and heating, and a lot of space heaters. Your best bet though is probably getting a propane heater in liu of the r/c system in my opinio nas it will probably be more efficient and I would assume much cheaper to run especially in cold water. I think when the water temp is around 45-50 the r/c systems become very inefficient or may not hardly work at all. Space heaters are very inefficient and burn lot sof electricity. Also, they require a generator. You cannot run that all day on teh hook unless you are made of money and diesel. Forget the wood burning thing. This is a boat not a house.

#5) A Kettenburg 40'?? What in the world led you to that boat? No freaking way I would EVER consider an old wooden boat for my family of anything I was serious about. You need fiberglass or steel or something other than wood. We had this wooden boat in our marina that was always leaking (they all do). That thing was always trying to sink (they all do). It almost became a joke every morning on who got to call into the marina to pull out the pumps to keep her from hitting bottom. And if you get a wooden boat from FL where the water is salty and move to a brackish or low salt environment, that thing better have a bunch of bilge pumps!!! Forget the wooden boat idea. Avoid wood like the plague. Even concrete is better than some old wooden relic. The exception to this rule is a very well cared for wooden boat (when you get it) and you have lots of money. I must assume that one or both of these conditions is not you???

#6) If money is less of an object, get a LCD flat screen and bulkhead mount. We have one and it is better than watching on the lap top. If money is a bit more of an object, then just use the lap top. Unlike many others here, I am not opposed to TV (though we only watch movies in general and even then very little). However, it is nice to watch the weather before storms with the TV and hey... this is your home not a weekend getaway. Still, you will have a million things to spend money on and make sure the TV and sound system is very low on your priority list.

#7) Living on a mooring, in a cold climate, with a kid, dog, and a wife that has to go to work (or both of you going to work) is an absolute recipe for disaster. DOn't screw up what can be a great lifestyle. I know people that have made that work (without the cold weather... this is in S FL), but they are few and far between. Still, even they did not have a dog. You need a marina. In my opinion, unless everyone is made of tougher stuff than any LA (live aboard) I have ever heard of, you will burn out on that boat within a few months. Maybe weeks. Then you are broke, stuck on a boat, and liable for all the associated costs and frustrations of getting OUT of the lifestyle that you have locked yourself into. Remember, buying a boat is like buying a large piece of land in the country. It is a wonderful experience at first. Buying it is easy. But getting rid of it can be a very long and financially draining process.

#8) On the toolkit question: I have a full complement of hand tools (screw drivers of many lengths/sizes, 1/2 and 3/8 driver set in metric and american), a drill (both battery and electric but I have a large generator and inverter), a dremmel, a heat gun (for heat shrink), and a Jig Saw. With the jig saw, you can probably do anything you could do with many other tools - including a circular. I do not think a circular is necessary. It is nice, but not neccesary. The jig can do it all. And it is imporatnt to remember that space is a premium on a boat and you need to minimize your tools too for those that can use multi-purposes.

#9) I personally (and especially with a dog and kid and wife that works) NEVER get a dink without an engine.First time you gotta take that dog to take a crap in a rainstorm or the middle of the night in a blow and you will either be buying an engine or ditching the dog. And I believe that with a child, you need a way to get that child quickly to emergency services. Seconds last for hours when on a boat with a hurt or sick kiddo. Their safety takes precedence to ANYTHING and EVERYTHING you do.

#10) I do not want to start another gun debate, but just leave the guns at home. You should have a 12ga and probably a 25mm flare gun that would easily kill in close range. And on a boat you will be in close range. There are no 'Pirates of the Potomic' so at worst you will have some nut job board you in the middle of the night. But the odds of this happening are astronmically small. Your flare gun should be fine.

As far as the rest, I can get you one of the best surveyors I have ever known in FL. That's not an issue.

You are doing the same thing many of us have done - but you will find most have not done it with kids. Kids make it MUCH harder (and more enjoyable). But it does change the rules. We are here to help. Ask questions as you wish.

- CD

Here's some LA and sailing pics:

Mom with my oldest (at that time):










My wife and oldest son:










Chase watching TV (on a computer, incidentally... we used the computer at that time as flat screens were not an option)










One of our dogs:










The kids today:


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

I'll tell ya, I love Kettenburgs, they're beautiful boats, there are 100's of ketts still here in SD, many have been restored to original beauty and if YOU can do it, you'll have a peice of classic art, however, having said that, I have to agree with CD, the Kett may not be the best choice for your first boat, the renovation and upgrade cost may cause hardship with your admiral and crew and that there could be a dream killer


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## svartsvensk (Jul 29, 2009)

First let me say that I am very excited by all the replies to my questions, and partly encouraged, whilst simultaneously daunted somewhat by the task at hand. That is ok. I don't scare easy, and I'm good at calming down the Admiral. Having made a low-budget independent feature-film which dominated my life for several years, I believe I can do anything!

Regarding the choice of a Kettenburg: I wouldn't even consider it for a SECOND, had the boat not been hauled and taken town to the wood, inspected, and repainted a year ago, and also upgraded in many ways. This particular boat is supposed to be in _very_ good condition, though in need of some cosmetic re-varnishing. If the boat in question needed full restoration, it would not be the boat for me. Since (from what I understand) it has been well maintained and equipped for a journey from Eastern FLA to the BVI, as well as cruising the Caribbean, and very very shipshape with no dry-rot whatsoever, I'm considering it, and may fly out to look at the boat in question and have it independently surveyed. I don't mind hauling it and recaulking it every few years. I don't mind being conducting inspections every month, learning to sister joints, and keeping a very close eye on the bilges. If they're full when I look at this boat, I'm just going to walk the other way. From what I understand, this boat is a dry one (for a wood boat) and in very good shape, though it could be prettier (like I said, needs some varnish on the exterior, which I'm absolutely able and willing to do).

Would I like to own a classic piece of art? Yep. Do I want to completely renovate and upgrade an aging boat? No, that's why I'm looking at a boat that has already had most of that done (so I'm told - again, if personal inspection reveals this to not be the case, I'm walking). Once I've gotten enough posts to post a link, I'll link the ad for this one. It's in Venice, Florida.

I know a wooden boat is not an easy choice, and believe me, I'm certainly open to looking at other boats, and most of what I've got my eye on is fiberglass - it's just tougher to find one that moves me the way the lines of the Ket do. Ok, nothing will, I know. But I'm still hoping to be a little moved by SOMETHING, and also hoping to find a boat I can do some serious voyaging in (with a little work and investment) as well as living aboard for under 20 grand. Blue water capable would be best (would love to sail to Europe, visit my family in Sweden, and let my little Viking conduct his own invasion of Lindesfarne in the Dinghy. Travel brings history to life in a way few things can.)

Living aboard in DC: I haven't even been able to get the dockmaster of the gangplank marina to call me back, so I don't doubt that the liveaboard list is miles long! The notion of needing a marina is getting clearer and clearer. With the added consideration of salt leeching from the wood in the Ket and shrinking the planks, Annapolis is sounding more and more inviting! I've also had a look at the city, and it's a MUCH better place to live than DC from what I can tell. Even if we decide not to liveaboard, I think that's where I'd want to live.

Regarding the Wolf (dog): CD, very VERY valuable points brought forth. If I can live at a marina, I think it's probably doable. Living on the hook with a dog, probably not so much. Anouk (the wolf) is 8 years old, and can still hop into the back seat of my Land Rover Discovery with a 3" lift, and EASILY over the baby-gates I've erected to keep the boy out of the kitchen and off the stairs when I'm not looking. I expect it'll be years before she has trouble getting up and down the ladder of a boat, but there's one thing that's got me a bit nervous (and it's not the seasickness - I picked from several pups, two of whom had puked in the car ride to see me. Guess which one I picked? Yup. The one who didn't). What's got me nervous is that she hates water. I mean, she LOVES SHALLOW water. She HATES swimming. Who knows? Perhaps life on a boat will embolden her, she's a bit of a wimp. If she can't hack it, she may have to live with Grandma and Grandpa for a bit, they love each other very much, and are definitely part of the "pack". This may be something I have to consider further. I'd definitely miss having her around, she's a WONDERFUL Dog, and has always made me feel safer.

The need for a larger holding tank is apparent. That is something I WILL need to do.

Regarding firearms, I have a pistol and an old bolt-action hunting rifle (actually was originally an implement of vileness in WWII, but I've turned it into something useful). The rifle will be stored off boat, and I may lock the pistol up somewhere with the flare gun. Nice thought about using the flare gun for defense, but really... I dunno if shooting someone with a flare on a wooden boat (or any boat not made of steel) is a safe idea. 

CD, you have a really wonderful looking family, and are very blessed! It looks like you four all have a really awesome time aboard, that is what I'm hoping for as well.

Everyone, thank you so much for the wonderful advice and additional info. I feel like I know my options much better now, and though as I said before, some of this is daunting, but excitement and determination are more than sufficient to overcome. I hope this works out for us. My plans are getting a little delayed, looks like we won't be moving for another month or two (government moves slow, as we all sadly know). This probably means the Ket will sell to someone else, lucky soul. But maybe not! We'll see what happens, and I will keep posting with updates (and of course more questions) here!

scottyt, thanks for your offer, and I may just take you up on it if I end up with that Ket! Late August is probably the soonest I'd be making the journey, so it might be perfect (if the boat is up to snuff).


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

svartsvensk said:


> First let me say that I am very excited by all the replies to my questions, and partly encouraged, whilst simultaneously daunted somewhat by the task at hand. That is ok. I don't scare easy, and I'm good at calming down the Admiral. Having made a low-budget independent feature-film which dominated my life for several years, I believe I can do anything!
> 
> Regarding the choice of a Kettenburg: I wouldn't even consider it for a SECOND, had the boat not been hauled and taken town to the wood, inspected, and repainted a year ago, and also upgraded in many ways. This particular boat is supposed to be in _very_ good condition, though in need of some cosmetic re-varnishing. If the boat in question needed full restoration, it would not be the boat for me. Since (from what I understand) it has been well maintained and equipped for a journey from Eastern FLA to the BVI, as well as cruising the Caribbean, and very very shipshape with no dry-rot whatsoever, I'm considering it, and may fly out to look at the boat in question and have it independently surveyed. I don't mind hauling it and recaulking it every few years. I don't mind being conducting inspections every month, learning to sister joints, and keeping a very close eye on the bilges. If they're full when I look at this boat, I'm just going to walk the other way. From what I understand, this boat is a dry one (for a wood boat) and in very good shape, though it could be prettier (like I said, needs some varnish on the exterior, which I'm absolutely able and willing to do).
> 
> ...


If it is in Venice, I glanced at it online.

Hey... I hope I am wrong... but in general any wooden boat is a maintenance nightmare. What was the last time that boat was surveyed? Do NOT buy that boat without a indepth, hard, buyer-picked surveyor.

I know a good one that I trust. I have sailed with him off the CA coast and spent who knows how many hours togehter elsewhere. He knows his stuff. Even Nordhavn picked him as one of their surveyors - and that means a lot. I can get his contact info for you if you wish. In the meantime, please do a lot more shopping on boats and research wooden boats in particular. I am very negative on them.

Also, CharlieCobra has a wooden boat IIRC. He is here. I think he can give you a fair assesment and he is generally positive about his girl. He would be another resource for you.

Best of luck with everything. Feel free to keep asking questions. Like others in our passion, we WANT you into cruising and sailing. THere simply is not enough of us out there with kids. I just don't want you making a mistake either. And like I said upfront, I am opinionated... but have been doing it a long time too.

Great talking with ya,

Brian


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

I hope she is eveything you hope she is, they are beautiful boats, the only thing more pleasing to the soul is life aboard. My wife and I have been doing it for 3 yrs now with two small dogs and it's been awsome.


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

WOW- from cruisingdad's perspective I have been doing it ALL WRONG !

However - probably good advice based on your situation and apparent lack of experience in these sailing matters.If your green and "new" to it and used to having "it all" or a considerable chunk of it and are the type to buy a new car every few years including the extra warranty, if you have never changed your own oil or(gasp) tires. I would say follow his advice. It seems many on sailnet fit that description. From the nice pictures SD posted, he can well afford it ! and I say good for ya ! sound advice,safe reasonable,etc,etc.
However, if the spoon hanging from your mouth is plastic or wood and not silver, and if you're not terribly adverse of getting a little (or alot) dirty and are confident of your learning abiity and quite adventurous.there are MANY different approaches as there are answers.
Know thyself first.
We sailed w/ 4 dogs- pain doesn't begin to describe it, but when I got the dogs I accepted the whole pet ownership thing, they're gods creatures, not discardable items. they expend a lifetime of loyalty to me, a bit of inconvenience seems minor turn-about. Don't forget lifejackets for the pets.
Heat ? well,I built a wood stove capable of burning wood,coal,charcoal , and a whole lot of other interesting stuff. Dirty? yea , can be. but the fuel cost savings is incredible and very easy to find! 
Dinghy- spent the first 2 years only rowing,then built a gaff rig, finally about 6 months ago found a sweet deal on a 3.5 2stroke johnson almost new condition (you probably thought I was gonna say I built one ,right) Now , with motor on the dinghy bringing the crew and dogs ashore is a joy ride ! and I'm getting fatter and lazier too ! (not to mention poorer buying gas and oil).
Tools- everything I can reasonably carry aboard. If I don't need it,someone else probably will , some for free some for Fee.
Kids- gods greatest gift. need I say more? 
TV- your better off w/out one. reading is fundamental, much more educational,and often commercial free ! After all, if I wanted to watch TV , I wouldn't have gone cruising.
guns- no comment, personal choice(I'll take the 5th and back it up w/ the 2nd Amend.) After all,do you think you would actually be able to "drop the Hammer" on somebody. stick w/ the flaregun .
As far as the anchor vs marina thing. - what are you made of ? I love anchoring it's beautiful,peaceful and the price cannot be beat. But as mentioned , no fun if you need to be on time,dry,well dressed,etc. although I've met some sailors who have a clothes rack instead of a back seat in their car and do the quick change ashore. not my first choice for long term.
Of course if your doing the shirt (or skirt) an tie job, you can most likely swing the slip rent/tax. you'll just need to keep looking for a location and situation that fits your tastes/budget/location. 
As far as other creature comforts- I have to come clean about my absolute need for ice in my rum,cold milk (or parmalat) and a somewhat regular fresh water shower (the crew is completely up-wind of me on this !).
However , once again ,I've met couples and famlies cruising without either aboard for considerable distances and time frames (6-12 months)
Holding tank- the smaller it is,the more time you'll spend familiarizing yourself with pumpout locations, of course you'll need to take on fresh water and give the crew occasional shore leave anyhow,so what's the difference? Also it gives you a good excuse (if you need one) to weigh anchor regularly and keep the barnacles at bay, you know Sail the boat. After all that is the idea,right? if not maybe your looking for a houseboat or a big stinkpot.
Finally the vessel- everyone seems to have a different view. Some demand peformance,others spaciousness. and you ? 
As far as materials-once again personal choice. Obviously wood will be more labor intensive , but steel demands maintenance and upkeep as well. A fiberglass boat does seem to be quite resiliant and as a result cheaper and less demanding of your time. But you cannot beat the beauty of wood, I don't think they will ever stop building wood boats. If I had about 6 sons ( to work on one) I would have one !
I say do what feels right and live within your comfort zone.
Hope to see you on the water. I'll be the vessel anchored w/ a big grin on my face (possibly due to the Rum!)


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## svartsvensk (Jul 29, 2009)

*The rabbit hole deepens...*

...as it pretty much always does.  Word from the Ket owner is that it DOES have some water in the bilges, and the auto-bilge pump is working 3-5 times a day.  According to him, this is due to to last summer, when he filled the seam between the lead and the wood with 3M 5200, which he found out later on, shrinks as it hardens, not filling the void properly. He did a temporary patch with some underwater putty stick, but that's clearly a stopgap, and it's not exactly working perfectly, as evidenced by the bilges.

If no-one snaps this boat up over the next two weeks (an unlikely proposition, unless it's got wet-rot or something nastier than the leaky seal, but the owner has promised to keep me abreast of the situation), I may fly out and have it surveyed, in which case, CD (Brian), I will gladly take you up on your reccomended surveyor! I will also obviously have to haul the ship and repair the bad seal. Ain't no way I'm sailin' 1500 miles with a leak that bad, and one that will surely worsen with the pressures and movement involved in such a journey.

Meanwhile, I'm looking at other boats, and other options. Rent in Annapolis is CHEAP! 1800 for a NICE 4 bedroom colonial with a garage and big deck, with woods and a creek straight off the backyard. At the same time, marina's aren't TERRIBLY expensive, and have a LOT of excellent ammeneties, like pools and stuff.

Boats-wise, there's a decent-looking deal on a Cal 34 in Florida, but the interior needs quite a bit of work, and there's a decent looking deal on an Irwin 32.5 CC at Knapp's Narrows, but I'm not sure I WANT a center cockpit, and I've heard Irwins tend to leak from the windows quite a bit, and that they're not really built for any serious journeying. The Cal 34 seems to be a very good boat, but I'm unsure as to whether I'll have the week or so that I'd need to rebuild so much of the interior before my family will need to live in said interior. (*sigh*, five more posts until I can send you guys links. Mostly, I'm finding these deals on craigslist. Yachtworld seems very overpriced!)

Since it looks like I've got a couple months before the move (things are being delayed - this is a government job, so surprise, surprise), I can move slowly (more slowly than I thought!) on a boat - probably a good thing. This isn't something to rush.

I also want to thank everyone for such a diverse set of opinions, and kind wishes! Joethecobbler, the spoon around my neck isn't silver, ok, well, it's copper plated in silver, and by the time I got it, the silver was mostly worn off. My family isn't rich - mom's a school teacher, stepdad's an artist (and amazing carpenter from whom I've learned most my building and repair skills), Pop's a phone installer (and surfer, who taught me to surf, and repair surfboards), stepmom was a phone installer too (yeah, guess how THEY met? ) before she retired. So yeah, I'm made of pretty stern stuff, and I'm NOT afraid to get my hands dirty - I've maintained a classic motorcycle (1978 Yamaha XS11), maintained and modified my 99 Landrover Discovery, and done nearly everything under the sun to my old VW Bus before I sold it back in 2003. I'm pretty handy, and if I have the time to do something right, I will - especially if Admiral SWMBO considers it a "must-do", because that is the only way I can get her to take the boy and leave me be so I can work, otherwise it's a constant, "when will you be done goofing around in the shop so we can all go have fun together?" *sigh*

The remarks on leaving a TV off the boat or just using a laptop won't work for me. I LOVE to read, and do so voraciously when I can, but as I've mentioned, my business/art is TV/film, so I need to be able to view it in as optimal a way as possible. Were I a painter, I would not want to limit myself to looking at artwork on an iPod or handheld digital device, I'd want to see the work as it was intended to be seen - in a frame, in an art gallery. I can't see every film in the theater because I'm a dad, so I do the best I can with blu-ray and a home theater now. Onboard, this will mean downsizing, and I'm prepared to deal with that, but since I'll be SELLING my current setup, buying a more limited one might actually yield a profit.

Keep 'em crossed for me, I'll be in touch!


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

svartsvensk said:


> The remarks on leaving a TV off the boat or just using a laptop won't work for me. I LOVE to read, and do so voraciously when I can, but as I've mentioned, my business/art is TV/film, so I need to be able to view it in as optimal a way as possible. Were I a painter, I would not want to limit myself to looking at artwork on an iPod or handheld digital device, I'd want to see the work as it was intended to be seen - in a frame, in an art gallery. I can't see every film in the theater because I'm a dad, so I do the best I can with blu-ray and a home theater now. Onboard, this will mean downsizing, and I'm prepared to deal with that, but since I'll be SELLING my current setup, buying a more limited one might actually yield a profit.
> 
> Keep 'em crossed for me, I'll be in touch!


I think you are going to have a difficult time with this. You will either need a very large boat or you will have to do an extreme make-over of your goals and lifestyle. Living aboard as you seem to envision it would be do-able if you get a large trawler or motorsailer but I don't think cruising is in the cards. But then, "Cruising" means different things to different people and I've seen all kinds. Not everyone is as crazy as Laura and I.

On the plus side - Now is a great time to buy a boat


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## svartsvensk (Jul 29, 2009)

Well, yeah, to have a setup anything like what I've currently got would require a very large boat, but what I'm envisioning is a 5.1 system with very small speakers mounted to the ceiling and subwoofer built in under the starboard bench/berth. The TV I'm thinking of is somewhere between 32" and 37", flatscreen LCD with a narrow bezel mounted above the starboard bench/berth on the wall, or alternately (depending on the boat's layout), mounted to the bulkhead on the port side ahead of the dining area. The PS3 will probably be stashed on the bookshelf along the side, and if you're wondering where the amp for the surround system will go, I intend to use a system purposed for a computer, which have the amplifiers generally built into the woofer, or into a very, very small control unit (like 6"x3"x3").

I've resigned most of my things to being sold, and will be seeking out .pdf versions of my book collection to be kept on my computer and iPhone, with only a few exceptions. DVDs etc will all have to be removed from cases and placed into a large CD binder, taking up about 1/100th of the space. My laptop is a 13" macbook, and takes up very little room. Originally I had planned a "ship's computer" to be integrated with the tv and surround system, but I'm thinking more and more that it's either that or my PS3, and the PS3's only drawbacks in that regard is it's lack of MacOSX, while it's benefits for keeping are its gaming capabilities... I don't intent to lock myself in my boat and spend all my time watching movies and playing video games, of course - I'm a very active, outdoorsy person (who's going insane in Los Angeles), but it's nice to relax and watch a movie in the evening after the boy has gone to sleep.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

svartsvensk said:


> Well, yeah, to have a setup anything like what I've currently got would require a very large boat, but what I'm envisioning is a 5.1 system with very small speakers mounted to the ceiling and subwoofer built in under the starboard bench/berth. The TV I'm thinking of is somewhere between 32" and 37", flatscreen LCD with a narrow bezel mounted above the starboard bench/berth on the wall, or alternately (depending on the boat's layout), mounted to the bulkhead on the port side ahead of the dining area. The PS3 will probably be stashed on the bookshelf along the side, and if you're wondering where the amp for the surround system will go, I intend to use a system purposed for a computer, which have the amplifiers generally built into the woofer, or into a very, very small control unit (like 6"x3"x3").
> 
> I've resigned most of my things to being sold, and will be seeking out .pdf versions of my book collection to be kept on my computer and iPhone, with only a few exceptions. DVDs etc will all have to be removed from cases and placed into a large CD binder, taking up about 1/100th of the space. My laptop is a 13" macbook, and takes up very little room. Originally I had planned a "ship's computer" to be integrated with the tv and surround system, but I'm thinking more and more that it's either that or my PS3, and the PS3's only drawbacks in that regard is it's lack of MacOSX, while it's benefits for keeping are its gaming capabilities... I don't intent to lock myself in my boat and spend all my time watching movies and playing video games, of course - I'm a very active, outdoorsy person (who's going insane in Los Angeles), but it's nice to relax and watch a movie in the evening after the boy has gone to sleep.


Here is how our TV was done:










- CD


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

svartsvensk said:


> and will be seeking out .pdf versions of my book collection to be kept on my computer and iPhone,.


My wife and I use audible dot com for ( audio ) book downloads and I know amazon & sony has readers. my wife has the Sony reader which hold several hundred ( text ) books.

With still doing the 9-5 gig, working on the boat or sailing on the weekends, the audiobook versions downloaded to my Ipod is a great option.


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

CD, why do you have 12 cans of Bushes Baked Beans over your TV ??


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## svartsvensk (Jul 29, 2009)

poopdeckpappy said:


> CD, why do you have 12 cans of Bushes Baked Beans over your TV ??


ROFL! Yeah, they look kinda naked without a banjo and a cowboy hat next to 'em!

CD, you've totally got the idea. That's essentially what I'm planning to do, though with a larger TV. 

poopdeckpappy, audio books on the iPod are great, but nothing can replace lounging with a bottle of Pacifico (told you I was from San Diego) in one hand and a good book in the other, even if that good book is on the iPhone.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

poopdeckpappy said:


> CD, why do you have 12 cans of Bushes Baked Beans over your TV ??


Dear Poopy,

Those are not backed bean. Those are signed instruction manuals from GreenPeace on how to deal with Tree Killers. And I am even more dissapointed in you portraying yourself to the kind sailor that started this thread as a liveaboard on a SAILboat. We all saw your motorboat, Poopy. Quit with the charade, already. Don't think that because you put a Tayana 37 on your avatar that any of us believe you don't live on that $50 million dollar stink pot. You gotta do better than that to be a part of Sailnet. Besides, I know the pic of the Tayana is fake. THere's not even a grill.

Some guys will go to any lengths, I tell ya...

- CD


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## jorgenl (Aug 14, 2006)

Hey Svartsvensk,

Check out this LED / LCD by samsung.

32" LED HDTV UN32B6000 32" 1080p LED HDTV - LED TV - Televisions | SAMSUNG

As far as baked beans, CD' got it right again - they are essential on any cruising boat.

P.S Whats with your sign in name anyway?


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## svartsvensk (Jul 29, 2009)

Hey Jorge,

That's a pretty bitchen' TV! Sadly, way, way out of my price range.  I was thinking of this one.

I like the energy efficiency of the LED tv's, but they're still very spendy. Eventually, I'll be trading up, but in the meanwhile, I think the VIERA would do just fine. I'll have to measure before I buy the TV to make sure it'll fit, I may need to go with the 32, but I think I can squeeze the 37 in. It does have a VERY narrow bezel.

As for my s/n, "Svart Svensk" is Swedish for "The Black Swede". My Grandfather is from Sweden, and we still have family there. I'm not black, but I have very dark brown hair and beard, with a fairly tan complexion too for someone of Northern European descent, and I have some distinctively Swedish facial features, hence, "The Black Swede". Plus, I think it sounds cool.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

svartsvensk said:


> Hey Jorge,
> 
> That's a pretty bitchen' TV! Sadly, way, way out of my price range.  I was thinking of this one.
> 
> ...


You TV will most likely have to run off a Inverter if at hook. You don't want to have to fire up a generator every time you want to watch tv. As such, power consuption on a boat is critical. Keep that in mind as you work through these issues.

- CD


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## jorgenl (Aug 14, 2006)

Yep - definetely cool s/n. 

I am Swedish myself, hence the question.

Good luck with the TV. I went with the Samsung since it is only 1.2" thick and not very intrusive. Picture quality is amazing.

Cheers / Jorgen


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## svartsvensk (Jul 29, 2009)

Ah! Takk du, Jorgen! I had thought your s/n was "Jorge NL", I didn't realize it was Jorgen L! Hah! Mykket brå!

Clearly the more efficient Samsung is better for a boat, when at anchor, I'll have to look at the power draw for the TV's etc. I have an inverter in my Truck, but I may need a better one for the boat, and maybe even an extra battery or two. ...this alone probably justifies spending more on a better, more efficient TV, doesn't it?


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## svartsvensk (Jul 29, 2009)

Jorgen, I can't find any information on how much power in wattage that TV actually uses! The Panasonic I was looking at uses 108 watts avg when on, and is rated at 150 peak. Not too terribly bad for a 37".

Now, on to a more shocking development. My beloved PS3 - uses as much as 200 watts!!!!!!!!!! Yikes! That's terribly inefficient! Compare that to a Mac Mini which runs on average like 28 watts or so I read... I may have to sell the PS3, buy a mac mini, and install a blu-ray drive. Orrr, maybe not, when docked, I can run all of these things. If I'm cruising and want to watch a movie, I'll have to time it right or just use my laptop.


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## svartsvensk (Jul 29, 2009)

Another update - this Hunter 36 just popped up in Annapolis, as did this Catalina 30. The hunter layout from what I've seen is awesome, but is a 1980 too old for this brand?

I'm still looking at some Cal 34's as well, this one I mentioned, and this one looks pretty decent, but it has a _terrible_ paint job for a Chargers fan. 

I've also got an eye on this Irwin 32.5, but am leery as the pics don't look terribly recent, and I REALLY don't want to open the can of worms that is a boat out of water for year after year.


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

the 80's hunters where and are still are the best hunters, i have a 83 27 footer. if you want more info on the hunters go to here and start reading


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

Just put in a nice little bookshelf. when your tired of the selection trade out w/ other cruisers. alot of places have book exchanges. 
This morning during breakfast I asked my 5 year old if she wanted to watch the TV w/ me. (it's analog and we only wuse it to watch tapes/DVD's) she just made a face and we all laughed ! I won't miss TV much. no content.
The internet is more than adequate and available almost everywhere for free.
I hope you choose cruising, It's a great alternative.


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## svartsvensk (Jul 29, 2009)

So here's the Hunter I'm looking at. Needs bottom paint and through-hulls resealed, and there is one delaminated portion of the deck by the chain plate (and being a surfer, I know a thing or two about fixing delamination). I've spoken with Pete (the owner) several times, and he's done a lot of work on the boat, new halyards, new plumbing (though the head still needs one valve installed), newly repaired heat and AC (though a new thermostat is needed), it was hauled in November last year, and needs a new coat of bottom paint. Some things, yes, but little ones. All in all, a solid boat in good shape, and I think a good candidate for living aboard.

If I didn't already post the link to the Kettenburg, here it is. It will need to be hauled and the seal between the lead ballast and the wood keel redone. Not as little, but not as much needs to be done on this boat (so I'm told).

Sadly these boats are in wildly different parts of the country - I'm thinking that I may hire a surveyor to go look at the Kettenburg right off the bat, so I know exactly the condition of the boat before I even come out - if there are more problems that require serious attention (or will soon), I may just abandon her and redouble my search in the Annapolis area. If the boat is otherwise sound, however, I dont' think I'll be able to resist the temptation to own such an amazing and blue-water capable boat (this particular boat has won a transpac).


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## svartsvensk (Jul 29, 2009)

Joe,

Trading out books sounds like a nice way to go, and Libraries are always a wonderful thing - we make use of the Beverly Hills library every couple of weeks now, hopefully the Annapolis one will be decent too.

Again, I love reading, but TV and film are my business and my creative medium. I need to be able to view the competition and inspiration in reasonable quality. This is not impossible. There is good TV out there, but you have to sift through a lot of crap to get to the good stuff. Having a DVR is also quite nice, as it allows you to skip commercials. Other good shows are only on paid networks, like HBO's "True Blood" and Showtime's "Dexter". If you don't want these networks, you basically have to pay for a download or buy a blu-ray later on. (unless you have no problems downloading things illegally)


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## huguley3 (May 7, 2007)

The Kettenburg is wood isn't it? My fiberglass boat has been enough work I am having a hard time envisioning how much more work a wood boat would be.


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## svartsvensk (Jul 29, 2009)

Yeah, wood is definitely more labor intensive, the finish on the hull needs to be polished every year, and any sort of bad spots in the paint need to be fixed as soon as they're apparent. Leaks in the hull happen, and repairing them is generally an out-of-water recaulking job, but that typically doesn't need to happen often. This particular boat was dry-hauled last year and taken down to the wood, and repainted after a close inspection by a (I hear) good surveyor. Unfortunately, the seal between the lead ballast and the wood keel was done using a 3M product that hardens and shrinks. It was then patched a little bit with some underwater putty, but it still leaks. I'll have to reseal this bit with a dry-haul and some proper caulk before doing anything serious with the boat, I imagine.

Wood boats that are badly neglected end up leaking all over, and those are the ones you hear horror stories about. Ones that have been well taken care of do still sometimes have problems, but it's usually not a nightmare (so I'm reading). Wood DECKS are one of those things that are constantly a problem, and I must say, even though they're pretty, I'm glad the Ket has fiberglass decking, and is not prone to leaks.


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

svartsvensk, you need to give us a real name that is a mouth full to type

second it looks like your price range based on what you posted is 20 k, you might want to look at the irwin 37 cetner cockpit. i know you said something about CC's but for family liveaboard they look great for privacy reasons. they have a great lay out, i really like them, when/if i go bigger i will be looking closer at them

here is a link that has some 37 CC on it

irwins


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## saltydawg (May 20, 2004)

svartsvensk,

We live aboard in Annapolis with our son and until last fall out 50-pound mutt as well (he died at age 15). I am also in the tv biz (but decided to go without one on board for the sake of our son). Sounds like we'd have a lot to talk about and I'd be happy to answer any questions for you or your wife about raising a family aboard in this area. Click on my blog link below to see how "normal" and lovely life aboard with a kid can be.
Hope to see you out here!
Cheers
Cindy


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

scottyt said:


> svartsvensk, you need to give us a real name that is a mouth full to type
> 
> second it looks like your price range based on what you posted is 20 k, you might want to look at the irwin 37 cetner cockpit. i know you said something about CC's but for family liveaboard they look great for privacy reasons. they have a great lay out, i really like them, when/if i go bigger i will be looking closer at them
> 
> ...


Be careful with teh Irwins. Many had delamination issues. We have one in our yard right now that is being peeled and half way into it they found voids that basically made the repair undoable (at least from a cost point of view). This is not true of all Irwins. Also, the Irwin (and sorry, in my opinio nthe Kett's) are coastal boats. That is not a bad thing, but probably not the boat to circle the globe in.

Here is a bot if you can come up with the cash:

1981 Islander Freeport Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Not a true go around the world boat, but built like a tank. There is another in our marina somewhat similar. This particual boat is maybe 6 slips down from me. If you can come up with just a bit more cash, I mught suggest it. I can take a look at it for you. I do not know the owner of this boat.

There is also another called a Downeast in our marina (2 of them actually) and if I am not mistaken, they were made by Valiant (at their location). THey are well built and hardy boats. Full Keels. I know the owner of one of them and it is magnificently cared for.

Here is one: Cedar Mills Marina & Resort (Gordonville, TX)

Here is the second (the one I know):

Cedar Mills Marina & Resort (Gordonville, TX)

Being that they are fresh water boats, they will cost more but you will find they are in much better shape than a similar boat in salt. I can pesonally vouch for the second DownEast.

- CD


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## svartsvensk (Jul 29, 2009)

What about the Kettenburg makes you classify it as a CC, Brian? By all accounts I've read, a great many of them have crossed oceans (including the one in Florida for sale), and the hulls are very strong and sound. I know they have sailing characteristics not perfect for blue-water voyaging and require more tending of helm and sails than full-keel blue-water boats, but again, shouldn't hull-strength be a more important factor in oceanic voyaging than sailing qualities? Also, CD, where is that surveyor located in Florida? West Coast or East coast? It's possible that the owner of the Ket will be sailing it to the West Coast where he lives to make showing it easier - I may just shell out for the survey on the gamble that all will be well before I actually go out there, since there are not a lot of other boats I'd want to sail up from Florida.

Those are some very nice boats you guys linked me to, but I'm afraid they are all well out of my price-range. I don't want to take on a multi-year loan for a boat, and I certainly don't want to buy anything that far from depreciation. The Kett should hold value fairly well if I keep it in good shape, which I'll essentially HAVE to do, since it'd be my home (again, not SET on buying it, but leaning towards it).

Cindy,

Thanks for your post! My wife and I have been poking around your blog, actually, it's a great one, and full of ideas for us and our son. I'm sure we'll be contacting you sooner or later with a myriad of questions about the areas, marinas, commutes, and more!

Thanks again!

-Kris

(you guys asked for a regular name, you got it.  )


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Kris,


Guess we should stop trying to talk you out of it, I just would hate to see you say "my wife could not put up with the dampness..." or the work or what ever. If I was made of money and could afford to have several boats and have a full time person to work on them I might have a wood boat, They sure are beautiful. Just not practical. 

The biggest issue with the Kettenburg is going to be resale, and you will want to sell it to get away from the wooden boat maintenance. You may be able to get the same amount of money for it IF you maintain it to better than now standards IF you can find a buyer IF IF IF... Wood boats are very hard to sell, and many perfectly good boats get cut up because the owner is sick of maintaining it and cant find a buyer. Remember, too your talking about double the expense of maintaining a plastic boat. Many yards will be hesitant to even haul a wooden boat for fear of it being abandoned.

I know you seem dead set on a wood boat, I would say find a plastic for now, and in a few years that wood boat will likely still be for sale and get it after a few years of living on a fiberglass boat. You make it seem like you are going to be able to fix the leak, I doubt it. Not that I doubt your skills, but I doubt it can be fixed. Every wooden boat that is more than 15 years old leaks. (some would say 15 hours old) The only way I would touch a wooden boat is if I made it myself, or knew who made it and it was less than 10 years old, unless I decided I wanted to work on it more than be on it. 

A fiberglass boat will not need to be hauled out every year, if you have good bottom paint you will get a few seasons out of it. Remember the entire time your out of the water your family will be in a hotel. Polishing and repainting a wooden boat will take a lot longer than a glass one and will need to be done every year. 

Remember resale value is useless if you can't find some one to buy it!


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## svartsvensk (Jul 29, 2009)

Apart from the many concerns voiced here about wood as a hull material (once more, my many thanks for your advice), the previous owner's use of 3M 5200 on the ballast/keel seam is what's got me the most concerned at the moment. This leak is a problem, and if it turns out I have to replace the keel bolts, I'm HOSED. If the rest of the boat is in great shape, that's all well and good, but this is a big gamble. Coupled with the short length at the waterline, I've got my eyes on other options, and even though the Hunter 36 I was looking at in MD has just sold, a 1984 Hunter 37 has just popped up in Florida.

Anyone know anything about this particular boat? I'm very encouraged by what I'm reading about the Hunters, and the 37 in general. The private quarterberth has got me all giddy - my kid could have his own room. I may just have to give these folks a call.


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

kris if you have the cash in hand call that guy and offer him 15 k based on a decent survey. if the survey says its okay buy it for 15. you might need to keep it in florida for a few months, or even the winter but cash is king, and he might go for a cash offer, worse they can say is no. 

its getting to be hurrican season he will need to worry about that so the price might come down. heck when talking ask when/if the hurricans hit where the boat is due to maybe having to keep it there for a while. this might get him thinking getting rid of it now is a good idea

if you do get it ins it for the hurricanes


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

from what i just read the 37 hunters can get wet decks if you look make sure it gets checked


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

svartsvensk said:


> How long does a 15 gallon holding tank take to fill up? Anyone have any experience with treatment systems? Are they a real bear to integrate? Are they really sanitary/environmentally sound?


www.natureshead.com We have one onboard and love it. Would never go back to a traditional system. My old 20gal holding tank filled up in 8-10 days with 2 people full time.



> Any suggestions for vaccum cleaners? I was thinking a mini-wet/dry shopvac. With our dog, it's a necessity.


 Yes, I have one and it's perfect. Doesn't get cat/dog hair out of carpet though. There are some really small vaccums with rollers for carpet that can be had for $30 or so. They look like a large dust-buster.[/quote]



> Aftermarket shipborne heaters and AC - what sort of price range can I expect to find on these? Where can I begin looking? Are there any used ones out there?


 We use electric heating while shoreside. I've had really good luck with the "Vornado" heater. It's the safest and pushes air all the way to the other end of the boat. Also the delongi oil filled radiator is great and doesn't dry up your eyeballs like a forced air does.[/quote]


> Speaking of heating - I've read that most people use propane, electricity, and diesel heaters. No love for the old fashioned wood stove? Does this have more to do with fuel storage than anything else?


The wood stove I had on my last boat was my favorite part of the boat. Pure magic. It was essentially the dickenson solid fuel stove. Tiny tot stoves are better heaters as they're airtight and thus you can control them better. No window though so you can't watch the flame. A neightbor of mine took a welding class just so he could weld up his own airtight wood stove witth window. I think I'm going to do the same. Compressed firelogs or charcol work best.



> Home-entertainment systems - I'm lucky to have an HD projector and awesome surround sound here in my apartment, I know those will have to go. ...but has anyone set up a flat-panel HDTV and small surround speakers? Any suggestions about what's better in the confined spaces of a boat?


Seen plenty of these. They seem to work great. Bose comes to mind.



> Computers - should I stick with my laptop only? Or try to integrate a desktop in somewhere, using the TV as a monitor? Should I chuck my Playstation3 in favor of a blu-ray drive for the computer?


Laptops work great and you can lounge anywhere on the boat. If they have an output that is compatible with your HDTV then it's all that much better. Get a car adapter for your laptop and use that with your battery system when you're not shoreside.



> Mooring in DC - Eventually we'd like a slip, but we're willing to live "on the hook" for awhile until we sort that out... I read here that you can moor for free or very cheap for up to two weeks at a time off the gangplank marina; does that mean we'll need to find another place to stay for one or two nights a week? Where else could we moor in or around DC?


I would find a slip unless you're really SURE you want to live on the hook. Does your wife want to row the dingy into work in the DC winter? Can you generate enough power? There are lots of considerations with living on the hook and it is a much much bigger step than just living aboard.



> Toolkit - I'm going to need to pair down my set of tools. What do you think are the essentials I'll need to bring? (preliminary list: Sander, drill, circular saw, reciprocating saw, jigsaw, worklight, wrenches, drivers, planer, torque-wrench, hammer, ball-pein hammer, rubber mallet, steel drift, wood chisel)


I'd start with sockets, wrenches, screwdrivers and pliers. That way you can fix most mechanical things. The woodworking tools are less "essential" and more for projects. Since boats always install mechanical things in tight corners get as many socket extenders, wobble extenders, elbows and other devices for working in tight space. Also a set of sutbby wrenches and short screwdrivers can be lifesavers. Check out harbor freight tools. They're dead cheap and their solid toold (wrenches and sockets) are of good enough quality. You don't want to spend too much as it'll all end up overboard, in the bilge or rusted eventually.



> Building a bimini - how hard is this? Anyone done it? I'd like to give it a go, any advice?


Never tried it. Seen lots of them cheap on ebay though.



> Dinghy's - is sail/row ok? Or is something with a motor really that crucial?


Inflatables require a motor period. I once got swept out to sea from my own marina by current I could not row against a current in my inflatable. I prefer solid dingys for many reasons. The dingy I really want (and plan to buy soon) is: Portland Pudgy multifunction dinghy -- the fun boat that could save your life!



> Firearm safety and storage aboard - where are the best places to keep the ship's armory?


If nobody knows you have one you're less likely to get them stolen. Besides that I would buy a small handgun safe and bolt in somewhere hidden. For the long arms you might look into some of the retention devices police use in their cars. Basically it's a lockable molded bit of plastic that goes over the receiver of the AR, shotgun etc. I kept my long arms in a locked steel box that was in a locked cargo truck that was in a locked storage unit. Just recently had them all stolen. Also guns aboard will get some lite surface rust. Purely cosmetic.

Good luck! Enjoy your new adventure and when you're looking to buy a boat, stick with fiberglass. 

MedSailor -lived aboard 8.5years on two boats. The first was wood and while I loved her, she broke my heart in the end. Don't buy wood unless you are already a marine carpenter.


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