# Womyn are never called Captain



## deniseO30

Really? Well it's rare that I'm called Cap'n Denise  

So Ladies, what is your take on this title that is so very difficult to obtain? 

Yeah.. my son was called captain when we were on my boat at times. 

It doesn't really bother me.. it's not like I'm into tonnage and charters but I makes me smile when I do hear; "captain"


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## blt2ski

Sorry, she's the Admiral on my boat, I'm the cabin boy! 

Seriously tho......

I do know of a few women that "ARE" "Captains" in there own right. Including two that brought/bring boats.....well, "ships" into puget sound! then took them out later to the entrance to the st of juan de fuca only to hop off onto a smaller 20' somthing, then hop onto a ladder or equal and bring another "ship" into port!

Marty


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## knothead

deniseO30 said:


> Really? Well it's rare that I'm called Cap'n Denise
> 
> So Ladies, what is your take on this title that is so very difficult to obtain?
> 
> Yeah.. my son was called captain when we were on my boat at times.
> 
> It doesn't really bother me.. it's not like I'm into tonnage and charters but I makes me smile when I do hear; "captain"


Well, I ain't no lady, but I crewed for one across the Atlantic once and when referring to her in conversation with others I would usually always call her captain when the occasion called for it. I would have called her captain in our normal dialog and had no problem with it had she expressed the preference for the title. She didn't.

I have crewed for a lot of male captains as well and I can't remember ever calling them captain on a regular basis.


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## rdstanley

My wife prefers Admiral, there's too much responsibility associated with "captain"


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## GeorgeB

Mrs B prefers to go by Commodorable.


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## mgmhead

Behind her back I refer to her as "She who must be obeyed" but around her it is "Yes Dear".... :laugher by the way, she never calls me Captain either...


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## chuck5499

when someone asks i tell them patty is the admiral and all i am is the bag carrier and boat driver - so if there is a question they need to speak to her 

when we clear bridges and she has the helm and radio they call her cap'n

admiral patty boat driver chuck and svsoulmates 
in a slip in brunswick ga for repairs


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## chef2sail

My wife goes by "Goddess of the Waves" no matter what position she holds, occupies, or is in on the boat

When she is at the helm and in charge its ...yes mam, captain Goddess of the waves.

Dave


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## Ajax_MD

In my Navy, women are captains. You call 'em "Captain" or "ma'am" and you leave your gender hang-ups back on the pier.

You're the Captain, Denise.


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## Ajax_MD

And...sorry to hijack the thread, but I noticed a lot of Maryland/PA folks in this thread. I can't make PM's for a few more posts and wanted to say hi.


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## zeehag

whose brain was smoking WHAT when dreaming this one up?????? is hilarioius.....roflmfao......


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## deniseO30

Thanks bubblehead! I'm most honored! 

Really though.. it's not that womyn is or isn't the captain.. it's the difficulty that some people (not all people) really find it hard to use a title for a female. Like, Dr, Captain, Your Honor, Reverend, boss, etc.


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## JohnRPollard

Captain Denise, 

I salute you!


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## Yorksailor

My wife is a USCG 50 ton Capt. After the initial;

"Why is the Capt. not checking the boat in?" 

She is afforded a great deal of respect by both male and female immigration officials. As a Hispanic female Capt. the shock and respect is even greater in Hispanic countries whe she is called Senora Captitaine!


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## deniseO30

ty John! Yorks that is so very cool!


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## 2Gringos

Whatever you say, Skipper.


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## AdamLein

Perhaps the problem is related to the absence of a hat. If you want to be called Captain, maybe try wearing a hat with a brim and a little gold anchor on the front.


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## deniseO30

roflma too, seems the guys have most of the answers on this one too! 

OK Adam! show us YOUR hat! 

Yorks.. that's after she or you have to assert that she is a captain right? No one (in general) just sees and beleives that female is the captain. which is the point I'm trying to make. 

aye! arrrrg! boys ahoy! err bouys, lol


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## jacktarmagazine

My situation is probably different - when I work as a captain, everyone calls me captain. I assume you're talking about being on your own boat with your husband though. 

I defer to the person who owns the vessel/knows more about seamanship or that boat, but I don't know how any person who also owns the boat and is just as skilled can tolerate others not considering her to be equally in command. 

- Kim


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## petmac

deniseO30 said:


> Really? Well it's rare that I'm called Cap'n Denise
> 
> So Ladies, what is your take on this title that is so very difficult to obtain?
> 
> Yeah.. my son was called captain when we were on my boat at times.
> 
> It doesn't really bother me.. it's not like I'm into tonnage and charters but I makes me smile when I do hear; "captain"


You've obviously never heard of Molly Kool. Recently passed away. A real Captain and a legend in my home waters.

Molly Kool, 1st woman licensed as ship's captain in N. America - The Boston Globe


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## AdamLein

deniseO30 said:


> roflma too, seems the guys have most of the answers on this one too!
> 
> OK Adam! show us YOUR hat


I don't have one! But my wife has something close. Here she is at the helm:


From Sucia - Feb 2009

It does need a little anchor on it.



> No one (in general) just sees and beleives that female is the captain. which is the point I'm trying to make.


Anyway I see your point. The command structure on our boat isn't particularly formal. However, when Anna gives orders, they are obeyed.


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## deniseO30

cool cap Anna! I hear yah Adam! yesum capt Anna!


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## eryka

Hi Denise, I'm baffled to report that ANY time I've been on the VHF here in the South (Carolinas, Georgia, Florida) with bridges or marinas, they've called me "Cap'n," even though I'm the Admiral. Whazzup wi' that?

BTW, Dan is "skipper."


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## deniseO30

Cool Eryka! Your a force to be reckoned with!


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## ChuckA

*Another well known female captain...*

Captain Linda Greenlaw, of Isle au Haut, Maine, became widely known as captain of the Hannah Boden, which survived "The Perfect Storm" in Sebastian Junger's best-selling novel. Captain Greenlaw had the last known contact with the Andrea Gail, a swordfish boat from Massachusetts, that sank with all hands, in the Halloween storm 1991.

Greenlaw was considered by her peers to be one of the best large commercial fishboat captains on the American east coast is also a best-selling author (The Hungry Ocean, Lobster Chronicles, All Fishermen are Liars, The Fisherman's Bend)


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## sailhog

My wife calls me "Captain Butthead." I think the title has a very.... subtle dignity about it.


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## tdw

sailhog said:


> My wife calls me "Captain Butthead." I think the title has a very.... subtle dignity about it.


I've always thought you subtly dignified your hogship sir.

Well your dignity is certainly subtle anyway. 

You know, I reckon there should be one of those emoticon thingys to represent a servile tugging of the forelock.


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## St Anna

deniseO30 said:


> cool cap Anna! I hear yah Adam! yesum capt Anna!


Now thats respect . Thanks denny


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## St Anna

sailhog said:


> My wife calls me "Captain Butthead." I think the title has a very.... subtle dignity about it.


As long as you hear the Captain first, its all good


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## Melrna

Great and funny discussions here.. While the intent of this is to show how far society has accepted us females as capt of our own vessels, with some tongue and cheek sayings, I think it really depends on the vessel if a male is present vs only a female(s). 
My own personal experience in both as a Captain in commercial aviation and Marine are the same. As long as male is present most people think the male counterpart is the master of the vessels. This leads to speaking, asking questions, inquires and general assumptions of who is in charge of said vessel/aircraft to the male present. Even with 4 strips on my shoulders, Captains hat on, passengers, agents, mechanics at times think I am a flight attendant at worse and the co pilot at best until things happen to make it apparent that I am in charge. It is fun to watch peoples faces who thought I was one of the above, to the Captain in charge. I find in the marine environment about the same if I happen to have a male on my boat. If I am sailing solo (97%) of the time, I find most folks don't have a problem calling me Capt or mam.


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## deniseO30

Melrna! very eloquently put! thank you!


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## sarafinadh

I would have to take a down grade in rank to be a Captain.

That's MY admiral hat in the pic... yeah, the Toy Story cap!


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## NICHOLSON58

We always used 'Skipper' while racing - referring to the owner. 

Now that we own the boat; driver = skipper. If you can't get past the stereotypical gender hang ups - better stay home. We both are taking our 100-Ton captains classes this winter. We should both be licensed by the put-in time.


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## Livia

I collect titles and thanks to an online church I am now any amalgamation of

Reverend 
Dr. 
Captain

As in, "The Reverend Dr Livia says" or "The Captain Dr Livia reports"


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## PCP

I believe that In Europe the Word Captain is not usually used on yachting. 

The British and most of the Nordic countries use the word skipper and in the south it is Patrón or Patrão. Anyway in this thread there are lot of examples of female Captains on commercial shipping, pleasure boats and airplanes, but nobody talked about sail racing boats. I would say that in Europe, some of the more popular racing skippers are women.

On a popularity contest probably the name of Ellen MacArthur will come first and not because of her looks but because she has raced with men and has beaten the best of them in some of the most difficult and hard sailing races on the planet. I don’t know of other physical sport where women can beat the best men.

Last Vendée Globe (around the world nonstop solo race) Samantha Davies finished 4th, among 30 of the world’s thoughest and best sailors. Dee Caffardi finished 6th. Did I say that they were the only two women between 28 men? And can you guess who had the biggest party on arrival?

Sure, they are different; Samantha danced around her boat at the sound of pop music while she was leaving behind most men. But I would say that I appreciate her style. 

So, if they are not called captains, I don’t know, but I am sure they are called skippers and some of them are between the best sailors I know off.  

Regards

Paulo


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## scraph

I am an officer in the Navy (not holding the rank of Captain) and I will not refer to someone as Captain merely because they are the owner of a yacht (pleasure vessel). I, certainly, will not ask to be referred to as Captain on my own boat. However, I do demand that my orders are obeyed by passengers (for safety of equipment, personnel, and the ship). Once the title is appropriatelly earned, it makes no difference what the sex, creed, or color of the person is.

Womyn, by the way? That immediatelly puts this thread into an interesting context to ponder mutual respect from. Let's not establish a double standard here. "Women and men" is obviously not a standard by which to judge a person ... but I can't see how womyn are any different than female chauvinists and, therefore, no more worthy of respect than male chauvinists.

In summary, a woman or a man should be referred to as Captain if, in fact, they have earned the title.


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## deniseO30

OK, so pleasure boaters don't get titled because it's not a serious endeavor?

Titles are earned, by education, station, or respect and also in the military, where it is tradition and law. 

I don't think anyone demands to be called captain, I generally call anyone at the helm captain on any vessel. 

Womyn is a fun way of spelling that I picked up in the 70s. To take it farther, it's used by some feminists.. some angry some not..some just don't care anymore.

Melrna's comments are very well expressed. There is no attempt here to divide M & F It's just a simple fact of life..which happily is changing! Wimin generally won't be addressed as captain. Unless a female, asserts by knowledge or action or someone "corrects" the casual watchers will almost always look for a male to address as captain, as also stated by a few replies here. 

I loved it actually when my son was being called captain on my boat. I could see it made him feel special and it made me kind of proud. When my friends call me captain I get a little embarrassed that I've earned their respect.


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## scraph

That's right. Pleasure boaters don't earn the title of Captain, unless they have earned the title of Captain. Merely owning a boat does not grant the title (that would make you the "owner"). Commanding the helm does not grant the title (that would make you the "helmsman"). He who navigates would be the quartermaster. When you are working on the deck you are either boatswain or deckhand.

Unless licensed (or commissioned) as such, I do not consider someone a Captain simply because they both own, operate, and maintain a pleasure boat. The title of Captain should be respected for the tradition it represents and all those in the past who spent decades at sea before earning the right and the title.

These, of course, are my opinions. I stick by them though. I, for example, will not join a yacht club. It is distasteful that members are called Captains and the richest member is called Admiral.

Does sailing really need to provide you with more than the sensation and reality? Is a title, as well, really necessary?


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## Sailormon6

By definition, the title "Captain" does not denote that a person has demonstrated a high level of skill in the art and science of seamanship. It simply refers to any person who is in command of a vessel, and who is thus charged by law with responsibility for the operation of the vessel.

If the Coast Guard boards your boat, one of the first questions they'll ask is "Who is the Captain?" In asking that question, they are not trying to determine who knows the most about seamanship. They want to know who is in command of the boat, because, if they are going to cite anyone for a violation, that's the person who is going to get the ticket, even if he is the least skilled person aboard. 

The designation of "captain" is not a title of nobility. Anyone who is in command of a boat is legally the "Captain," regardless of his skill level, and regardless of whether it is a military, commercial, or pleasure vessel.

A person who holds a captain's license deserves respect, not because he is called a captain, because anyone who commands any vessel is a captain, but he deserves respect because the license signifies that he has demonstrated a high degree of knowledge and skill in seamanship. The same is true of the captain of a military or commercial vessel.


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## deniseO30

"I, for example, will not join a yacht club. It is distasteful that members are called Captains and the richest member is called Admiral."

WHAAAAA????   

me thinks somebody has an axe to grind!


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## blt2ski

hmmmmmm, ALL the folks at my YC at captains, altho I do not use that term, prefer the skipper part! "Admirals" are typically the way better half, ie female spouse. Typically in the roster the captain is the male, 1st mate female..........a few like myself, she is listed as captain, I'm 1st mate, but the wemi true joke is, she is the admiral, I'm the cabin boy............

well any way.....its too early here on the left coast for this nonsenseacle something or other!


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## scraph

Sailormon6 said:


> If the Coast Guard boards your boat, one of the first questions they'll ask is "Who is the Captain?" In asking that question, they are not trying to determine who knows the most about seamanship. They want to know who is in command of the boat, because, if they are going to cite anyone for a violation, that's the person who is going to get the ticket, even if he is the least skilled person aboard.


This illustrates the difference, within itself, that there is certainly a difference between the position one may hold (eg boatswain, helmsman, planesman, quartermaster, messenger, etc) and the *title* one might apprpriatelly place on his/her business card (eg Esq, Capt, Dr).

"Even if he is the least skilled person aboard" certainly points to the fact that the Coast Guard does not grant the title of Captain to every individiual they attempt to identify as the captain of the vessel they have boarded.

The position of captain and the title of Captain are too different things. I might be captain of this yacht. I am not, however, Captain Matt. If anything I'd be Matt, Captain.

While we're definining the word ... captain is not defined as the commander of _any_ vessel. Captain is defined as the commander of a merchant vessel. There are other definitions but that is the one relating it to command of a ship/boat. No, the dictionary doesn't even grant the title to a yachtsman.

You might be the captain but unless you have been commissioned as such you are certainly not a Captain, or "Captain Umptysquat". Holding the position does not grant the title.


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## CoastalEddie

I've always preferred the term "Skipper", especially when heading out on a "three-hour tour".

However, we might note that the COLREGS and Inland Rules don't mention "Captain" or "Skipper", and use the term "Master" only once (w/o definition). Also, as I recall, a Merchant Mariners License specifically allows one to "Master" a vessel of x-tonnage.

From dictionary.com:

_Word Origin & History

*captain* 
1375, "one who stands at the head of others," from O.Fr. capitaine, from L.L. capitaneus "chief," n. use of adj. capitaneus "prominent, chief," from L. caput (gen. capitis) "head" (see head)._

So, apparently, the "Captain" is simply the "leader" of the folks on the boat, the person nominally in charge, etc. As in Whitman's "O Captain My Captain".

Of course, that doesn't mean that the person holding the "real power" isn't the "Admiral," or "She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed."


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## midnightsailor

*I may as well jump in*

I think that the "rank" of "Captain" is sometimes getting confused with the "position" of "Captain" and that there is no disrespect meant to those who hold the "Rank" of "Captain" when one calls someone who commands a vessel "Captain". After all, there are 'Captains " in all kinds of endeavors whether it be sports (captain of the team) or even in resteuarnts where there may be a captain of waiters/waitresses. One can be the "Captain" of the debate club or of a spelling bee. And as pointed out, Captain has differing legal meaning as when the person in charge of a vessel is the "Captain" but also where a person might be a legally, qualified(licensed) "Captain"
That being said, I think it is just a matter of personal respect and custom to address the commander of the vessel as 'Captain" irrespective of sex, rank, or license. and anyone who looses sleep over it or refuses to join a yacht club, or whatever, is being a bit thin skinned, and petty and may even be missing out on some good company and fun. I'd like to add that this dosn't mean I don't understand where they are coming from, but that I think that viewpoint is just a bit narrow.  Anyway, I think skipper works just fine for me . Now about this calling girlfriends and spouses "Admiral".... Rick


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## PCP

CoastalEddie said:


> a Merchant Mariners License specifically allows one to "Master" a vessel of x-tonnage.


I am curious, what is the "title" in your pleasure boat licence? And it allows you to do what?


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## CoastalEddie

PCP said:


> I am curious, what is the "title" in your pleasure boat licence? And it allows you to do what?


I have never received any sort of license from the Coast Guard. The only piece of paper I have with which any sort of title is associated allows me to be called Dr. Eddie (as in PhuDdy-duddy).

Hey, wait a minute. I also have a Masters Degree in Marine Biology (and Limnology). Does that make me a "Marine Master"?


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## PCP

CoastalEddie said:


> I have never received any sort of license from the Coast Guard. The only piece of paper I have with which any sort of title is associated allows me to be called Dr. Eddie (as in PhuDdy-duddy).
> 
> Hey, wait a minute. I also have a Masters Degree in Marine Biology (and Limnology). Does that make me a "Marine Master"?


    

Ok, it seems that in the States you can pick any boat any size and if it is a non commercial boat you can sail it anywhere, without any sort of restriction. IT is like this? 

In the majority of the EC countries you need a license. You can get a basic one for an small open boat, near shore...and *you are a sailor*, or you can upgrade to different levels till you get your unrestricted license...and *you are an Ocean skipper*.
 For each one you have a course that varies in time and complexity, accordingly with the license and have always to pass a theoretical and a practical proof.


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## blt2ski

PCP,

You are correct in that here in the states, we do NOT have a licensing setup as you described. "SOME" of the states have a really basic license. Washington, ie not DC, where I am has an online 25 question test to show you at least have read some rules of the road equal type ability for boats over 14' or 25hp or some such thing. Canoes/kayaks over 14' are not included. 

Some will say we should not have licenses as you have in EU - please note assuming you are in Europe from you comments. I'm on the fence to feel that boating should have a "license" of some sort. But now you are into the what one says vs another. I do not feel the one I have to have is really worth the effort to do. Then again, not sure that one as comprehensive is needed. Then again, if i went thru the course(s) for the EU setup, I might have a different feeling.

Now to a degree, with some apologies to Denise, we have probably gone way off the "what" she was commenting on in the first place. 

Marty


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## deniseO30

Nah! Marty. I knew on making the thread that it would hit buttons. I love discussions. The recent bait for a name calling argument has been identified and ignored.  

"MOI CAPITAINE" Denise


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## DolphinLady

dear Capt. Denise,

Oh dear, I have been wondering about getting into this! After 15 years of "skippering" my own boats in the Caribbean and across the Atlantic being called Captain was something I had to accept clearing in and out of customs. Having grown up in England it was a bit embarrassing to be referred to as Captain. A friend I crossed the Atlantic with twice usually referred to me as Skipper, it was just so much easier that way!

The funniest experience was coming into Cruz Bay in the USVI one day. My male crew was standing next to me feeling lost and I was in line to speak to the young and inexperienced new customs officer. He immediately started addressing my crew as Captain. The large and extremely fierce female immigration officer fixed him with a glare and said "SHE'S THE CAPTAIN!!!!!!" I kept my grin to myself as I was pretty afraid of her too!

Captain Shelagh
USCG 100 Ton License


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## PCP

PCP said:


> I believe that In Europe the Word Captain is not usually used on yachting.
> 
> The British and most of the Nordic countries use the word skipper ... I would say that in Europe, some of the more popular racing skippers are women.
> ....
> Last Vendée Globe (around the world nonstop solo race) Samantha Davies finished 4th, among 30 of the world's thoughest and best sailors. Dee Caffardi finished 6th. Did I say that they were the only two women between 28 men? And can you guess who had the biggest party on arrival?
> 
> Sure, they are different; Samantha danced around her boat at the sound of pop music while she was leaving behind most men. But I would say that I appreciate her style.
> 
> So, if they are not called captains, I don't know, but I am sure they are called skippers and some of them are between the best sailors I know off.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


Ladies, I have the pleasure to tell you, that Sam (Samantha Davies) has won the title of best Yachtsman of the year (Great-Britain). I mean not the best between women, but the best sailor, men and women altogether.

Sam Davies wins 2009 YJA Pantaenius Yachtsman of the Year - Telegraph

It seems that I am not the only one that thinks she is a great sailor and a sailor with a great style.

YouTube - ROXY - SAMANTHA DAVIES

YouTube - VendÃ©e Globe ArrivÃ©e de Samantha Davies aux Sables

Dailymotion - Vendee Globe 2008 2009 teaser - une vidÃ©o Sports et ExtrÃªme


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## Yofy

Last summer we pulled into Syracuse marina on Sicily to reprovision and prepare ourselves for our last leg of our delivery. I was first mate and my partner Manny was Captain. When the Police came through the marina to check ships papers and crew passports (a random spot check, since we had already cleared in to the European community), Manny wasn't on board. So I greeted them with our organized file of paperwork in hand.

There were two officers. One female and one male. Upon seeing how organized our paperwork was, the female officer burst into smile and began to shout "Viva la Donna, Viva la donna...". And each time I would answer their request for some detail or another she would burst into her "Viva la donna" again.  

When we arrived back at our home base after a two month delivery, all our neighbouring sailors just assumed that I had waited a home while Manny did the job. "Oh YOU were on board too!" 

Ya win some...ya loose some.... but we still go sailing.

Robyn


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## midnightsailor

I followed that Vendee Globe race closely and was so impressed by Samantha's skill as a racing sailor and her enaging personality. I ahve to aggree with the those who awarded her that honor...Roxy had Moxy!!


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## PCP

Ladies, can I call your atention for this thread?:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/racing/63937-solo-duo-transatlantic-races.html

About a big Trasatlantic race (Figaro AG2R). They are all racing on equal boats (33ft Figaro Benetau).

There are three women on that race. 2 are on the head of the race, porsuing the leader.

The race has live coverage, so you can just follow in real time.

Regards

Paulo


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## PCP

Ladies,

I thought you would like to know that Jeanne (a French girl) is leading one of the BIG professional transatlantic races. Sam Davies is not faraway.

All crews (two) race with identical boats.

You can follow (direct GPS coverage) here:

Transat AG2R La Mondiale 2010

and here:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/racing/63937-solo-duo-transatlantic-races-3.html#post596479

Regards

Paulo


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## PCP

For the ones that like Sam Davies (an English Girl):

She is leading the Figaro Transat. With a Fantastic move she recovered 60 miles on a day and is leading with 10 miles over the second. With a 33ft boat she is doing almost 11k, pointing in the right direction. probably she is going to be the first to pass Canary Islands.

Regards

Paulo


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## PCP

Ladies,

The AG2R Transat is over.

Sam Davies did not win, but finished 4rd. The winner is Le Cleac'h one of the best Solo sailors (second on the last Vendee globe). Jeanne finished second, 50 minutes later on a race that lasted more than 22 days.

They left behind more than 20 boats, crewed by some of the best solo sailors on the planet. This was a duo crewed sail, but both girls were the captain in their boats.

Between the first and the 4th, at the finish, the difference was about 10 miles in a 3890 miles race. That's close

A movie with the winners, at the finish (and both girls) and some of the best movies of that race:

Le Figaro - La Solitaire
YouTube - Transat AG2R La Mondiale - grands surfs dans les alizés - 29 avril
YouTube - Transat AG2R La Mondiale - 28 avril Images de Stamm et Troussel
YouTube - Transat AG2R La Mondiale - 25 avril - images de Samantha Davies sur Saveol

Regards

Paulo


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## rotrax

My wife has eight years sailing experience.We co-own the boat.She takes on the role of skipper from time to time and is very good at it.The R.Y.A.training in the U.K.is very good both in the classroom and on the water.She invariably helms when docking or picking up a buoy.We dont use captain much in leisure sailing,it is more of a proffesional term.Last year in florida on a sport fishing boat we met a lady captain of an oil rig supply vessel.I expect she is pretty busy right now!


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## nolatom

I think this thread has shown that "captain" is mostly a professional term, and gender makes less difference every year, as more women (who have been graduating from the sea service and merchant marine academies for over 30 years now) command ships, or pilot the big ships around seaports. Maybe the inland towing industry is the last in the bunch to move women from the galley into the wheelhouse, but they're starting to do it, too. 

It's kind of pompous to expect the moniker (other than in friendly jest) on a small to medium pleasure boat, unless you're dealing with port officials.

But if you're on the VHF, you'll routinely say, and be called, "captain", since the FCC regs sort of presume the speaker is a captain or delegated mate, an "acting captain". Since you may not initially know to whom you're speaking, it's the benefit of the doubt. I'll say "thanks, Cap" to whoever responds to my radio check, even if it's a dockman somewhere. And you're hearing a lot more female voices around the commercial ports, and at sea.


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## deniseO30

men are sirred.. women are "hon, babe, sweety" in the same given situation Tom just the way it is in many walks of life.


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## eryka

Denise, my experience has been more as Tom describes; in the past 10 months on VHF and docking, I've been addressed as either ma'am or Cap'n almost 100% of the time. It's been one of my favorite things about the South ... well, that and blackened grilled fish ...


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## deniseO30

That's a wonderful thing to know Eryka!


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## xxuxx

*Admiral vs captain*



blt2ski said:


> Sorry, she's the Admiral on my boat, I'm the cabin boy!
> 
> Seriously tho......
> 
> I do know of a few women that "ARE" "Captains" in there own right. Including two that brought/bring boats.....well, "ships" into puget sound! then took them out later to the entrance to the st of juan de fuca only to hop off onto a smaller 20' somthing, then hop onto a ladder or equal and bring another "ship" into port!
> 
> Marty


 Boy do we hate when the male refers to his wife as the Admiral. Its so condescending. When do you ever hear a male refer to his female counterpart as the Captain. She is always the Admiral (YUK). I don't want to be no freakin Admiral. I am the CAPTAIN! LOL, I guess that's why I'm single....<yawn>


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## blt2ski

SHE refers to herself as the admiral too! SHE was the first to call me the cabin boy! maybe you should not read into things as you think they are. Reality is, we do what we ea can do best on the boat, as it should be!

along with, in our YC directory, SHE is listed as captain, I am 1st mate, 2 or maybe 3 others in the club are listed this way, the others are male captain, female 1st mate, Kind of fun to have folks call one or the others cell, and think they are getting the other. along with the SHE owns the boat, not me!


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## deniseO30

Hope this doesn't become a gender war! 

(thinks UPS guys in shorts are cute)


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## deniseO30

XXUXX 
I was hoping not to get into the anger side of gender politics on boats. 

Where do you sail out of on the Bay? Kind of boat you have?


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## blt2ski

SOrry Denise, 

UPS guys in shorts are NOT cute.....altho a couple of friends of mine, Tim and Mark think so


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## deniseO30

ok.. some ups guys are cute in shorts. lol


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## flysci

I like "skipper" better. It's my boat and I'm in charge, but I think "captain" implies a sort of hierarchy I'm not that comfortable with. Also, though I have ASA certificates, I don't have any sort of tonnage captain's license.

I too have had the experience here in Florida that all the bridge keepers refer to me as "Captain". I don't mind - it's clearly a manners and respect thing. 

Margo


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## JiffyLube

I used to go with this woman that liked being referred to as Captain, until something when wrong and someone would ask who the Captain was...then she would point at me.:laugher


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## xxuxx

*Some men accept women in charge, others don't and prefer to placate with the word...*



ADMIRAL[/B]


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## Derbygal

This subject actually came up at the dock because of this thread this past weekend. 

I was talking with another female half of a sailing team while they were docked overnight during their passage, and my male counterpart referred to me as the Admiral during the conversation. I noted immediately that I disliked the title personally because in general the very definition of the word does not apply to me in regards to our boat, but nonetheless he has stuck me with this title because "all the other females are Admirals."

My new friend smiled and said "on our boat, I'm the Cruise Director. I still do half the work and sail as hard as anyone, but my main job as far as I'm concerned, is to make sure that through it all, we're still having FUN."

After considering her words for a moment I've decided she's right. It's just not worth it all if no one is having fun...so I've decided that my title is now Cruise Director too!


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## ElaS

Here is one woman captain. What a gal!
Sorry this page is not translated into English, but she is 22 y/o and the Captain of Polish yacht s/y Runaway in this year's Garibaldi Tall Ship Regatta. She was the youngest captain in 2008 The Tall Ships Races on board s/y Gedania.

garibaldi

p.s. I want to be a captain too one day, "when I grow up"


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## sailorthom

If the woman is Captain does the man then become Gilligan? Talk about having your manhood removed!


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## xxuxx

*Giiligan???*

No Pet!; the man becomes the deckhand and responds in acknowledgement of the Captains demands: He responds this way: Yes Captain, or Yes Ma'am or At your service Captain!! That is how the spineless, underling, macholess man should respond.


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## PCP

xxuxx said:


> ..That is how the spineless, underling, macholess man should respond.


And my I ask what use do you give to such a sailor? It doesn't seem very able to me. I certainly did not want such a crew member on my boat!!!


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## sailorthom

Okay now"Blondie" you really started somethin' " Now take yourself and your little black dress down below and clean the fish the "real" Captain caught.


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## Heinous

Not sure how this got to be eight pages...

First, what's a womyn? And second, while I am positive there are plenty of fine female captains, there are still way more male ones. If that ratio ever equalizes or inverts, the general initial assumption of who is captain onboard may shift. Pretty obvious, I think. I apologize if someone has already pointed this out.


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## SEMIJim

deniseO30 said:


> ...it's the difficulty that some people (not all people) really find it hard to use a title for a female. Like, Dr, Captain, Your Honor, Reverend, boss, etc.


Some people are idiots .

My doctor is female. I refer to and address her as "Dr. ..." I would never _dream_ of referring to a judge as anything other than "Your Honour," regardless of said judge's gender. "Reverend..." well, TBH: I can't keep "Reverend," "Pastor," etc. straight. So if I fail to address a female reverend appropriately, that's the reason. My boss is my boss, regardless of gender. "Captain?" No problem. The captain's the captain. Again: Regardless of gender.

Most often other sailors assume I'm the skipper. One of us usually corrects them. The boat is _her_ boat, after all .

Jim


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## deniseO30

Jim! you get her to give you a big hug and kiss! You Da Man!


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## mdbee

*Honesty*

Honestly, Jim was just BS-ing you 

You Da Man, Jim!



deniseO30 said:


> Jim! you get her to give you a big hug and kiss! You Da Man!


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## bljones

Denise, i got no problem calling you capt. It's really very very simple- if it's YOUR boat, then YOU are the captain.
But, I ain't gonna call you womyn. what is the plural of womyn, anyway? I never thought "woman" or "women" was derogatory or in any way shape or form signified implied inferiority. On the other hand, addressing any female over the age of 18 as "girl" is just plain wrong.


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## bubb2

I used to call my wife Admiral. Now that she has her US Coast Guard Master's license, I just call Captain or Cap for short.

Hey Cap get me a beer, gets the same results as it did when I would say, Hey honey get me a beer!!


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## deniseO30

this is going to be fun 

Urban Dictionary: womyn

womyn

A variation of the word "woman". The word is used mainly by feminists who find it offensive to have the word "man" in "woman". Let's leave it to T-Rex to wash away the ignorance:
THE ETYMOLOGY OF THE WORD "WOMAN"

T-Rex: Many people believe "woman" is a sexist term, due to its apparent base in the word "man"! This has led to crazy alternative spellings like "womyn" and even "wimmen". However, this is not the case! The word originally derives from the old English "wifmann", where "wif" ment "female" and "mann" meant a person of either sex: thus, a female human!
Dromiceiomimus: Man didn't mean male?
T-Rex: Nope! It derives from the Latin "humanus" (earthling), from "humus" (earth, soil)!
Utahraptor: And while "wif" meant female, "wer" mean male!
T-Rex: Exactly! We can still see this today in words like "werewolf", which means, literally, a manwolf.
Utahraptor: So "werewolf" is actually a more sexist word than "woman"!
T-Rex: According to me: yes! This is why I spell the word "wheirwolf", and why I ask that you do the same! You wouldn't want to be SEXIST, would you?

_DO30 really isn't an angry feminist (anymore) but every now and then something hits a nerve! _


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## cruisingdream

SEMIJim said:


> Most often other sailors assume I'm the skipper.


People sometimes call me Skipper & I have to tell them I'm not Barbies best friend.


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## dhays

This came up for discussion last weekend. My boat broker and fellow yacht club member is a woman, married to a guy I've known for 30 years. She is an accomplished sailor with many racing victories to her credit.

As a boat broker, she takes buyers on sea trials in all kinds of boats, power and sail. Normally, if another broker brings her a buyer for a boat she is listing, the buyers broker takes the boat on the sea trial. The selling broker will do it if asked, BUT gets an extra piece of the commission for the trouble.

When she takes a buyer to a sea trial of a boat that she isn't listing, she has found that *almost all the time*, the listing broker (male of course) will come along on the sea trial with her without asking for that extra piece of the commission. The issue is clear, the male brokers don't think that she, as a woman, can handle the boat by herself.

While she shrugs it off, I can tell that is beginning to really annoy her. If she takes a buyer on a sea trial, the listing broker goes along. If a male broker in her office does the same, the listing broker doesn't go along.


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## mdbee

*Never overlook the obvious*

True, maybe the fact that she is a woman, is the reason they come along. But maybe it has nothing to do with her ability to handle the boat. 

Could have more to do with hormones than sexism. Maybe she lacks confidence in her abilities? Who knows? 



dhays said:


> This came up for discussion last weekend. My boat broker and fellow yacht club member is a woman, married to a guy I've known for 30 years. She is an accomplished sailor with many racing victories to her credit.
> 
> As a boat broker, she takes buyers on sea trials in all kinds of boats, power and sail. Normally, if another broker brings her a buyer for a boat she is listing, the buyers broker takes the boat on the sea trial. The selling broker will do it if asked, BUT gets an extra piece of the commission for the trouble.
> 
> When she takes a buyer to a sea trial of a boat that she isn't listing, she has found that *almost all the time*, the listing broker (male of course) will come along on the sea trial with her without asking for that extra piece of the commission. The issue is clear, the male brokers don't think that she, as a woman, can handle the boat by herself.
> 
> While she shrugs it off, I can tell that is beginning to really annoy her. If she takes a buyer on a sea trial, the listing broker goes along. If a male broker in her office does the same, the listing broker doesn't go along.


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## tdw

Me I just hate titles. One of the reasons I sail by myself or with just a very small crew is to keep away from all that bs. If I ever was on a boat where the skipper expected to be called Captain I'd be off at the first opportunity. A large ship, different story I realise but then again I know I would not have been a success in the military.


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## deniseO30

Dhays, you hit the topic of this whole thread right on, with your input..thank you!


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## mdbee

*Who knows?*

Dhays may be in fact correct. I certainly don't know the details myself but wouldn't her experience be known to the other brokers? Is it possible that she is feeling like a victim of sexism?

Come to think of it, there are a lot of opinionated, chauvinistic asses around here, he may be right. 

It's a shame that we jump to conclusions but we do base our opinions on our experiences or at least our perceived experiences.



deniseO30 said:


> Dhays, you hit the topic of this whole thread right on, with your input..thank you!


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## sailingdog

Denise—

Everyone knows women can't sail a boat by themselves... Look at Ellen McArthur, Donna Lange, Jessica Watson, Dee Caffari, Maude Fontenoy... failures, all of them... 

Hmm... maybe those women would not be the best examples for me to pick. :laugher


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## CalebD

I'd point out that SailingDog did not use the Subjunctive form of any verb in his past post. I think that requires a salute to all wimyn, women everywhere. 
Things are changing a bit in the Navy and MSC and women are officers in command and are not to be dealt with lightly because of preconceived notions.
I am always a secondary person on board when the owner of a boat takes command. I don't have to like their decisions but it matters less to me whether they are male or female. 
As SD noted there are plenty of female skippers who know their stuff and why kick up a bunch of dust over such stupid stuff.


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## dhays

mdbee said:


> Dhays may be in fact correct. I certainly don't know the details myself but wouldn't her experience be known to the other brokers? Is it possible that she is feeling like a victim of sexism?


Many times the selling brokers don't know her sailing resume. I actually suggested that when she is submitting offers, she also submit a short sailing resume of herself so the broker will know of her experience and qualifications. She may consider doing that.

She is a woman my own age (52), and when I suggested that maybe the other brokers coming along has nothing to do with their lack of trust in her seamanship but maybe more in the desire of her company, she didn't give that argument much credence. 

She is also not one prone to radical feminism. She is just getting mildly annoyed at this consistent pattern.


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## deniseO30

I would just suggest she assert her rights loud an clear. There is nothing radical or non-ladylike about demanding what one is due in business. If brokers are anything like other business people, they don't look to share and or include another, unless it's demanded or well explained up front. Is this also situation also affecting her income?


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## puddinlegs

Denise, if you're taking your boat through the Ballard Locks in Seattle, whoever's at the helm is addressed as 'captain' or'skipper', gender be damned. We're all pretty much idiots in the lyckmyns'/ wYmn's eyes. Vowels are just over rated. Just replace them all with 'y'.


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## deniseO30

Hi marks for Seattle!


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## eryka

Same experience on the ICW south of Norfolk, VA; whoever was on the VHF was just "Cap'n" But I also like just replacing the vowels with "y" oops, already halfway there with "eryka"


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