# Largest liveaboard *ever* sells for US .01



## joelsanda (Aug 7, 2011)

Carrier sells for a penny


990 feet at waterline
1,067 feet length overall
125 foot beam
81,000 pound displacement


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## krazzz (Jul 17, 2013)

I would have to mortgage my house just to pay dock fees for one day.


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

How is it possible that it sold for a penny? This is supposed to be OUR money. Ships normally command substantial scrap value.


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## azguy (Jul 17, 2012)

jzk said:


> How is it possible that it sold for a penny?  This is supposed to be OUR money. Ships normally command substantial scrap value.


I know right  It's not like the coast guard can't tow it somewhere and scrap it. Heck I'd rather even see it get sunk for a reef project or to help with beach erosion, etc...


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## joelsanda (Aug 7, 2011)

jzk said:


> How is it possible that it sold for a penny? This is supposed to be OUR money. Ships normally command substantial scrap value.


The scrap yard must be located in the right congressional district :-/


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

jzk said:


> How is it possible that it sold for a penny? This is supposed to be OUR money. Ships normally command substantial scrap value.


Not that much really. And the towing cost to get it to a yard capable of scrapping something this large is going to be substantial (Pennsylvania to Texas). Seeing how it was sold to the highest bidder at public auction I am guessing that no one else wanted it.


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## krazzz (Jul 17, 2013)

jzk said:


> How is it possible that it sold for a penny? This is supposed to be OUR money. Ships normally command substantial scrap value.


These things are always sold by auction. There aren't a lot of places that can do something this size and legally handle all of the hazardous materials on something like this. Obviously there was only one taker. Beats having to continue to pay storage/maintenance costs or having to pay someone to take it. Most large commercial ships get sent to 3rd world countries to be chopped up because they don't have to worry about OSHA or the EPA. They drive up the costs substantially.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

Ah, the ship that had a terrible Vietnam-era accident that nearly got John McCain and did kill 134 sailors.

Navy Awards Contract for ex-Forrestal Scrapping
"WASHINGTON (NNS) -- The Navy awarded a $0.01 delivery order Oct. 22 for dismantling and recycling ex-USS Forrestal (AVT 59).

The delivery order was made under an indefinite-delivery, indefinite-quantity contract to All Star Metals for the towing, dismantling and recycling of conventionally powered aircraft carriers stricken from the Naval Vessel Register.
.....All Star Metals will now develop its final tow plan for the Navy's approval for the tow of ex-Forrestal from its current berth at the Navy's inactive ship facility in Philadelphia to All Star Metals' facility in Brownsville. The ship is expected to depart Philadelphia before the end of the year.....
Forrestal was decommissioned Sept. 11, 1993, after more than 38 years of service. On June 16, 1999, the Navy announced the ship would be available for donation to an eligible organization for use as a museum or memorial. However, no viable applications were received and the vessel was removed from donation hold in December 2003 and redesignated for disposal."

Brownville's port is very close to the Texas border with H. Matamoros, state of Tamaulipas, Mexico.


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## Ferretchaser (Jan 14, 2011)

Don't forget that the thing is powered by this glow in the dark stuff and that is pretty costly to dispose of


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## billsull (Jul 8, 2007)

The Forrestal was a CV, not a CVN, so there's no "glow juice" aboard.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

Uh, Ferret, the only way to get fuel oil to glow in the dark is to light the darned stuff on fire. Though there probably is hazmat in the form of asbestos insulation, grease, CRTs and various generations of electronics, etc. 

The Navy contract for dismantling ships such as the Forrestal is limited to conventionally powered vessels.


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

Stumble said:


> Not that much really. And the towing cost to get it to a yard capable of scrapping something this large is going to be substantial (Pennsylvania to Texas). Seeing how it was sold to the highest bidder at public auction I am guessing that no one else wanted it.


Scrap value of a ship is right around $425 per ton. For a VLCC that can be $10 - $20 million dollars.

What is the dwt of this ship?


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## SecondWindNC (Dec 29, 2008)

joelsanda said:


> Carrier sells for a penny
> 
> 
> 990 feet at waterline
> ...


That should be 81,000 *ton* displacement.
That's at full load, she's about 60,000 at "standard" displacement.

Holy cow, that's quite a few Benehuntalinas.

Couldn't we turn it upside down and use it as a bunker or something?


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

jzk said:


> Scrap value of a ship is right around $425 per ton. For a VLCC that can be $10 - $20 million dollars.
> 
> What is the dwt of this ship?


I just shopped scrapping a ~30 ton vessel, and was offered a max of $3,000 delivered. But they required removal of all fuel, oil, and other pollutants.

Like I said, it was sold at auction, with public notice... Anyone who wanted her was welcome to show up and bid. So clearly no one wanted it.


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

Stumble said:


> I just shopped scrapping a ~30 ton vessel, and was offered a max of $3,000 delivered. But they required removal of all fuel, oil, and other pollutants.
> 
> Like I said, it was sold at auction, with public notice... Anyone who wanted her was welcome to show up and bid. So clearly no one wanted it.


Do you have a citation to that sale?

Here are some other sales:

http://www.gmsinc.net/gms/news/lloydslist/Scrap%20prices%20reach%20$500%20per%20ldt.pdf


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## Jd1 (Aug 16, 2011)

Probably would be a real problem single handing ..... especially when docking!


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## Philzy3985 (Oct 20, 2012)

I couldn't afford one bottom-cleaning.


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## Jd1 (Aug 16, 2011)

I wonder how many masts could be lined up on the flight deck for wind power


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

Stumble said:


> I just shopped scrapping a ~30 ton vessel, and was offered a max of $3,000 delivered. But they required removal of all fuel, oil, and other pollutants.
> 
> Like I said, it was sold at auction, with public notice... Anyone who wanted her was welcome to show up and bid. So clearly no one wanted it.


Oh, and I am all for the "fair is fair" argument, and perhaps there is some logical reason this sold at auction for .01.

But let me ask you this. If you were out sailing and entrusted me to sell your $5 million dollar home, and I had a fiduciary duty to you, would it be reasonable for me to explain to you that it sold at auction for $.01? Sometimes auctions are not the best way to sell things when you truly are trying to maximize the return as the feds ought to be doing.


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## Petrouschka (Oct 12, 2013)

jzk said:


> Oh, and I am all for the "fair is fair" argument, and perhaps there is some logical reason this sold at auction for .01.
> 
> But let me ask you this. If you were out sailing and entrusted me to sell your $5 million dollar home, and I had a fiduciary duty to you, would it be reasonable for me to explain to you that it sold at auction for $.01? Sometimes auctions are not the best way to sell things when you truly are trying to maximize the return as the feds ought to be doing.


"The Feds" had plenty of return on Forrestal. It served the Navy for 35 years! As it is, it would cost more than it is worth for the Navy to scrap it or clean it up for use as a reef. I am sure they were happy to let somebody else take over the costs of towing, docking, and cutting her up. As taxpayers we should also be happy that we aren't footing the bill for the hundreds of thousands of man-days it will cost to cut her into razor blades.


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## harleybeach (Jul 1, 2013)

There are 3 scrap yards in Florida that could handle it


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## Petrouschka (Oct 12, 2013)

The scrap value is on the order of $25M. Hopefully the yard who bought her will be able to tow her, cut her up, and deliver her to market for less than that amount.


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

Petrouschka said:


> The scrap value is on the order of $25M. Hopefully the yard who bought her will be able to tow her, cut her up, and deliver her to market for less than that amount.


The scrap prices that I have found assume delivered at that scrapyard. Thus, the cost of towing has to be deducted from the $25 million, but chopping it up does not.

Perhaps there are issues like asbestos or something else that makes this particular ship undesirable.


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## Petrouschka (Oct 12, 2013)

Asbestos, lead, oils, Cadmium and other heavy metals, etc. The cost of environmental compliance must be quite high. 

An interesting cost comparison would be Oriskany. She was sunk as a reef in Florida. I wonder what it cost to prepare her for sinking? Surely it was more than $25M. (granted that likely required more cleanup and remediation than will Forrestal).


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

Petrouschka said:


> Asbestos, lead, oils, Cadmium and other heavy metals, etc. The cost of environmental compliance must be quite high.
> 
> An interesting cost comparison would be Oriskany. She was sunk as a reef in Florida. I wonder what it cost to prepare her for sinking? Surely it was more than $25M. (granted that likely required more cleanup and remediation than will Forrestal).


Again, what is different about military ships that makes these issues different from other ships? For one thing, there is apparently a regulation that prohibits scrapping of government ships outside of the US.


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## Brewgyver (Dec 31, 2011)

Petrouschka said:


> "The Feds" had plenty of return on Forrestal. It served the Navy for 35 years! As it is, it would cost more than it is worth for the Navy to scrap it or clean it up for use as a reef. I am sure they were happy to let somebody else take over the costs of towing, docking, and cutting her up. As taxpayers we should also be happy that we aren't footing the bill for the hundreds of thousands of man-days it will cost to cut her into razor blades.


If this vessel had been owned by a private sector business, used 100% for business purposes, and depreciated on the owner's yearly tax returns, and then sold, there would be recapture tax.


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