# Sunsail Flotilla- Relatively Unexperienced



## Cincy020 (Mar 19, 2013)

All,

I wanted to get some input on floatilla sailing with Sunsail. 

Myself, I have experience sailing my Catalina 22 only on smaller inland lakes (had the boat for about three years). Prior to that, I had a daysailer for about 3 years and would occasionally crew for other boats on my local lake.

This summer, I will be taking ASA 103 (testing out of ASA 101 based on the instructors recommendation) and eventually take ASA 104 (probably later this summer or next Spring). The main point is to hopefully bareboat the summer of 2017 or 2018. 

I have taken a look at the Sunsail floatillas and they seem like they would be a good fit for a first bareboat charter. I like that you have crew available (on their own boat) that can assist in anchoring/mooring and are available to help out if something goes wrong. From their website, it appears they have floatillas available in the Med and BVI's.

Is my level of experience sufficient to take on a floatilla bareboat charter after I receive the 103/104 certification? I am kind of hesitant because I have never skippered/crewed in open water, so I'm not sure really what to expect. Would certain locations (i.e. BVI's) be better than the Med for a first bareboat? Any locations in the Med more forgiving than others? 

Thanks for the help.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

I've seen many flotillas arrive en-masse in anchorages in the BVI. The lead boat with Sunsail personell will arrive before the rest of the fleet and, depending upon how many boats comprise the flotilla, will zip around in one or two dinghies and assist in getting mooring balls and boats connected together without any unnecessary shouting or involuntary falling overboard 

With an ASA103 course under your belt you will be more qualified than many of your fellow flotilla skippers. The BVI are a good destination from the USA, and the trade winds are consistent whereas the weather in the med might mean a lot of motoring around or perhaps waiting in anchorages for the winds to settle. The BVI is the easiest place to sail around and for that reason Road Harbour has the biggest combined Sunsail/Moorings base in the world.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Wot Zanshin says 

Even as part of a flotilla you are your own skipper. Yes it will be nervy, but you will learn far more than taking a captain with you.
Its exciting and you will feel a bit on the edge but it will be a wonderful adventure 

Mark


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## DefianceNYC (Apr 25, 2016)

Sounds like an amazing idea!


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

Cincy020 said:


> Is my level of experience sufficient to take on a floatilla bareboat charter after I receive the 103/104 certification?


Absolutely. In fact, you could just go out on your own in the BVI with those courses under you. You would still have more experience than a lot of the folks that are chartering boats around there.

I'm sure a flotilla is a wonderful experience. If you are unsure of yourself, it is probably a great confidence booster. If you are the very social type then it would be an easy way to meet other sailors.

Sailing in the BVI is dead simple, though. Picking up a mooring is very easy, so long as you take it slow and careful. So, while a flotilla might be an enjoyable sort of introduction to chartering, it is hardly a necessity.

Good luck, and have fun!


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## jwing (Jun 20, 2013)

Before my first bareboat charter, the biggest boat I ever sailed was a Hobie 16. I was hardly an expert on that boat, but I could get it from point A to point B.

My advantage was that I had a couple of equally gung-ho friends and our girlfriends were stoked, too. We read a little before we left, listened carefully during the boat walk-through and the captain's orientation, then went out and had a blast. We have subsequently sailed most of the Caribbean. It is not difficult; none of us ever took a sailing lesson beyond the getting the Boy Scout merit badge with the summer camp Sunfish. OTH, none of us have ever been cowboy a-holes; we sail conservatively and don't take chances that could harm our or anybody else's boats. The sails are furled whenever we are entering or leaving an anchorage or mooring field.

I'm not saying to not get the ASA certs and charter with the flotilla; I imagine it's all great. But depending on your personality, none of it is necessary. I know that other people have valid counter-arguments. 

The one certification that I highly recommend before heading to the Caribbean: SCUBA.


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## Cincy020 (Mar 19, 2013)

Great, thanks everyone for the feedback! Certainly gives me some comfort heading into it. I couldn't imagine having almost no experience and heading out...at least I half know what I'm doing!

The only follow up I had was on line-of-sight navigation. That was a description on the floatilla pages...I'm assuming line-of-sight means that you always have land in sight an use landmarks to navigate? If line-of-sight is not an option, you are sailing out of sight of land and rely on navigation instruments to find your way?


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## PaThomas123 (Mar 29, 2011)

for what its worth I took 101, 103, 104 and yes I learned a lot but then I had a captain (really great guy) with me in all the classes now 
the first time I bare boated it was just me and my class buddy we both made the comment you lean more by having to do it yourself with no backup so go do the flotilla and have a blast you will not regret it and anything you don't already know you will learn by doing


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## PaThomas123 (Mar 29, 2011)

Cincy020 said:


> The only follow up I had was on line-of-sight navigation. That was a description on the floatilla pages...I'm assuming line-of-sight means that you always have land in sight an use landmarks to navigate? If line-of-sight is not an option, you are sailing out of sight of land and rely on navigation instruments to find your way?


Basically yes you can take position fixes by landmarks and such may not hurt to get a chart or two of the area you can download navionics to a smart phone or a GPS tablet that's what I would do but you cant beat paper charts have fun


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Cincy020 said:


> The only follow up I had was on line-of-sight navigation. That was a description on the floatilla pages...I'm assuming line-of-sight means that you always have land in sight an use landmarks to navigate? If line-of-sight is not an option, you are sailing out of sight of land and rely on navigation instruments to find your way?


Sunsail boats come with a chartplotter, electronic charts and GPS. You will have great fun learning to use it. Its quite simple. The plotters are Raymarine so you could download the user guide off the net to get a few tricks up your slave now.

If you have a laptop at home you can take perhaps you could download OpenCpn for the laptop. Download CM93 charts off the net. Then you can practise plotting at home using the charts for the BVIs.

Or you could get a charting ap for your smartphone/tablet. You would have to pay for the charts.

But navigation in the BVIs is easy because you can see the islands.


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## jwing (Jun 20, 2013)

I know that my knowledge is behind the times; I sailed the Caribbean before electronic navigation. We used the paper charts and tools that were part of the charter boats' kits. The BVI is a perfect place to learn how to locate yourself on a paper chart. 

We found the cruising guides to be a great resource. The bird's-eye views were great for reef avoidance and the rest of the guides were excellent for trip planning. There are probably electronic versions now, but I imagine that I would prefer the paper versions because they are easier to pick up and look at any time and easier to share. You probably spend enough of your life looking at a display screen. Don't spend your vacation looking at one. 

One of the joys of sailing is learning how to read water. Or is that something that no longer exists?


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

jwing said:


> One of the joys of sailing is learning how to read water. Or is that something that no longer exists?


Read water? How passé. Just use Siri.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I have no idea of how you could be out of sight of some island or another in the BVI, unless you were in the middle of a T-storm. Even at night many are lit up with street lights and houses. Not much need for anything more than your eyes and at most a compass, in the BVI. Relax, enjoy. It's some of the easiest sailing on the planet.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

capta said:


> I have no idea of how you could be out of sight of some island or another in the BVI, unless you were in the middle of a T-storm. Even at night many are lit up with street lights and houses. Not much need for anything more than your eyes and at most a compass, in the BVI. Relax, enjoy. It's some of the easiest sailing on the planet.


The only island that would be out of sight in the BVI is low-lying Anegada, but that would not be a good destination for a newbie and your charter company may need to authorize it. Once at Anegada, you will easily see where you came from.

Your charter company probably will not allow you to sail late in the day--let alone at night. That means you should be able to read charts and read the water to stay off the reefs. The only popular areas where you need to read the reefs are the entrance to North Sound (Virgin Gorda), the area around Marina Cay, including the passage between the Camenoes, and--most certainly--the approach to Setting Point (Anegada).

As others have said, you won't find an easier area to navigate and a more relaxing area to sail.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

I got a lot of early sailing experience on three flotillas in Turkey in 1985, 86, and 88. Great time, great folks on the other boats, wonderful hospitality ashore.

I highly recommend it as way to boost your competence and confidence.


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## Cincy020 (Mar 19, 2013)

Thanks for the replies everyone! Certainly gives me a confidence boost heading into it.....perhaps I'll get some experience with reading charts since that is something I currently do not do (I suppose there will be some of this in 103/104?). I'll keep everyone in the loop.....will probably go the flotilla route, especially to have some fellow sailors to hang out with.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Cincy020 said:


> Great, thanks everyone for the feedback! Certainly gives me some comfort heading into it. I couldn't imagine having almost no experience and heading out...at least I half know what I'm doing!
> 
> The only follow up I had was on line-of-sight navigation. That was a description on the floatilla pages...I'm assuming line-of-sight means that you always have land in sight an use landmarks to navigate? If line-of-sight is not an option, you are sailing out of sight of land and rely on navigation instruments to find your way?


Yes seldom if at all out of sight of land. One of the funniest things I heard was someone saying instead of charts you could use the map that was drawn on the place-mats on the table because everything is so close. (OK don't sue me if you wind up on a reef!)

Are you from Cincinnati? I drove past Strictly Sail the other day when I was in town, used to ride my bike there and drool over the Hobie Cats when I was a kid, wanted one so bad. Parents still live down the street.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Three more related questions. When is the best time to go, factoring in charter costs, crowds and winds (not too much and not zero).

What is the best way to get there. (connecting flight etc)?

What is the best way to provision?


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

PalmettoSailor said:


> Three more related questions. When is the best time to go, factoring in charter costs, crowds and winds (not too much and not zero).
> 
> What is the best way to get there. (connecting flight etc)?
> 
> What is the best way to provision?


Anytime. You can't expect the world to vacate the BVIs just because you've read its better deserted. 

Flights: I dunno. I sail

Provisioning: supermarket over the road from Sunsail. Do not let them provision for you $$$

You will be eating out at night...


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## jwing (Jun 20, 2013)

The best time of year, IMO, is the low season, when it's summer in the USA. The lower costs allow the charterer to stay longer for the same amount of $$.

I've self-provisioned and I've had the charter company do it. In some places, going to the market is part of the experience. In other places, it's a lot of vacation time wasted in the grocery store. It's difficult to plan meals ahead of going to the store if you don't know what the store has. So you have to do it while you are at the store. Then you have to schlep all the groceries back to the boat and spend time stowing them. Add a case of beer per person plus another case of wine and booze and you've got quite the schlep. If you are chartering with, say two other couples (and I think you should), then I think the extra money is well spent to have the charter company provision your boat with one of their standard plans. And get on with your vacation sooner.

Some people eat at restaurants a lot, but in my memories, there are few experiences that beat a good meal and drinks with good friends, afloat in a breezy tropical evening.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

miatapaul said:


> One of the funniest things I heard was someone saying instead of charts you could use the map that was drawn on the place-mats on the table because everything is so close.


I often use post cards that are aerial photos of passes in the So Pac because the charts aren't very useful. If a ship couldn't navigate a pass, it was labeled a 'small boat passage' and left as a blank area between the two island points or reefs. Also place mats with pictures of ports, such as the Carenage in St. George's Grenada, are very handy as they give one a good visual image of a place.
In Fiji I was able to get military aerial photos of all the passes, bays and lagoons of the outlying (poorly charted) islands I wanted to visit, a real boon. I think they were a buck a pic.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

There might not be any flotillas in the summer, and many of the places in the BVI shut down in August/September and October.

Those charterers I've spoken with tend to be a bit disappointed when having the charter company do the provisioning in the BVI. Sourcing liquor, water, soda and other liquids is easy, as Caribbean Cellars and Tico will deliver straight to the boat. The grocery store is a 10 minute walk from the Moorings base and is well-stocked with names and brands you are used to from the USA (the prices are higher). I've been around the Sunsail and Moorings docks as well as those for Horizon at Nanny Cay and am always amazed at the amount of groceries left aboard at the end of charters. Usually charterers will plan big meals and BBQs and then end up at happy hour somewhere and losing all energy to cook - so they end up eating ashore.

The BVI might be chartering and sailing heaven, but they rank at around the 3rd level of hell when it comes to getting there and back. For travellers from the USA there are 2 main options - fly to St. Thomas in the USVI and take the 1 hour ferry ride across to the BVI. The last ferry is cleverly scheduled to depart before you can get to the Charlotte Amalie ferry dock from a flight arriving at 4PM, that is assuming that the schedule is being adhered to. Don't buy tickets ahead of time, since one ferry company will not honour another's tickets; just get to the terminal and ask which ferry departs next.

The other option is to fly into Beef Island. The prices for those flights are adjusted upwards and the little hop from San Juan (SJU) to Beef Island (EIS) can cost more than the whole rest of the trip. A third possibility is to fly to St. Martin (SXM) and pray to the airline gods that LIAT is having a good day and will fly you across the 90 miles of ocean to EIS both on-time and with your luggage on the same flight. I've found that the gods don't listen to me when it comes to LIAT, though.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

Zanshin said:


> There might not be any flotillas in the summer, and many of the places in the BVI shut down in August/September and October.
> 
> Those charterers I've spoken with tend to be a bit disappointed when having the charter company do the provisioning in the BVI. Sourcing liquor, water, soda and other liquids is easy, as Caribbean Cellars and Tico will deliver straight to the boat. The grocery store is a 10 minute walk from the Moorings base and is well-stocked with names and brands you are used to from the USA (the prices are higher). I've been around the Sunsail and Moorings docks as well as those for Horizon at Nanny Cay and am always amazed at the amount of groceries left aboard at the end of charters. Usually charterers will plan big meals and BBQs and then end up at happy hour somewhere and losing all energy to cook - so they end up eating ashore.
> 
> ...


I've reduced arrival anxiety in the Virgin Island by chartering out of Red Hook, St. Thomas. You fly a real airplane there and take a taxi to the charter base. I've chartered from Island Yachts at least 8 times and have ranged from the Spanish Virgins, to St. Croix, and the BVI, of course, including Anegada. Island Yachts has Island Packets, but you can also check out CYOA in Charlotte Amalie. The only drawback is the check in/out to the BVI and check back into the USVI, but that is not such a big deal. One of the benefits of chartering out of the USVI is the opportunity to explore St. John--something the BVI charterers usually miss.


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## reeder (Jan 8, 2014)

Our first charter after taking the ASA courses was a Sunsail flotilla in the BVI. It was great to have help with learning the territory, and taking the edge off some of the tension around mooring and equipment failures. Once away from the dock bigger boats are actually easier to sail than smaller ones, and the BVi are the perfect place to sail. Do it - you will learn a lot and have a great adventure.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

Will you have crew with you? Hope so as charter companies will not allow single handed. 
I thought about flotilla, but decided I wanted the freedom to choose my own course and destination. 
Someone here described BVI as cruising on training wheels, which is right on. The advantage of flotilla is meeting other people, which is not necessarily a difficult thing to do outside of flotilla sailing.
Do you know about the full moon party? Makes for a fun evening ashore.
If you charter from BVI and want to go to St. John, then make sure your boat is compliant with US MSD laws.
One of the best parts of my trip was the Cape Air flight from San Juan to Beef Island. Swooping around thunder heads at low altitude was fabulous, even though a few passengers were quite white knuckled and one woman was petrified. Remember a twin Cessna is to an airliner as a sailboat is to a cruise liner. Ther are reasons for both.
Flotilla or not, it can be great fun and a marvelous learning experience.


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## i_amcdn (Jul 4, 2012)

fallard said:


> .....That means you should be able to read charts and read the water to stay off the reefs. The only popular areas where you need to read the reefs are the entrance to North Sound (Virgin Gorda), the area around Marina Cay, including the passage between the Camenoes, and--most certainly--the approach to Setting Point (Anegada).
> .


And Trellis Bay....I have pics of credit card sailors trying to rock their 45' rental off whatever lies shallow between the Last Resort and the last mooring ball.

We have only been during full moons or New Years just to hit the beach parties.


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