# Questions for Patreon Users



## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I've seen several discussions within threads about Patreon... but I thought I would start a thread directly about it.. mostly because I have some general (philosophical) questions.

First some thoughts at large

I have seen sailors in their Vlogs say: "I don't want to ask people for money" the tone is they 'don't want to beg,' Ironically anywhere from five to 15 posts later they change their mind..

I also see lots of what seems to be 'free use' of materials in making the vlogs.. that may not be free, but I don't know.

So first question.. do Patreon uses ever contribute to the musicians that provide the soundtrack of their videos? and (much the same), if you subscribe or watch other Patreon videos do you contribute?

Why, or why not?

Next: Do you see yourself as an 'artist' and people who contribute to you are just Patrons supporting the 21st century Van Gogh?

. . . more I hope


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I know that some of the vlog authors use free music, but many (most?) use contemporary tunes. Good question.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Minnewaska said:


> I know that some of the vlog authors use free music, but many (most?) use contemporary tunes. Good question.


but either way... I am guessing they aren't paying the artists.....

I don't know.. I have looked at a couple patreon or kickstarter sites, but never do they say : "and some money will go to the musicians making the music... but there could be a trade, maybe they will make a music video for the musician..


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm pretty sure you can pay a fee to a service that allows one use of copyrighted music. Still, I bet most don't do it.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

and I understand that once you start paying people involved (the same way the sailors want to be paid) you will be spending your patreon money on everyone but yourself... I just don't know if I understand the principle of wanting people to pay you, but you want to not pay others...

EDIT: and I understand the irony of watching a video for free.. and commenting on this...


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## travellerw (Mar 9, 2006)

Youtube has very very strict rules about using music with rights. Even if that music is playing on a radio in the background. Many vloggers have to ditch good video cause a tune can be heard in the background. 

Now as to Patreon.. Its the way of the future. Think about it. A system where you are sure the money you give goes directly to the "entertainer" and none of it is siphoned by a coke snorting producer, cable company, or advertiser. Frankly I would much rather send money via Patreon then pay the cable company. 

It drives me bananas when people say they are "begging". Its nothing of the sort. They are providing content and asking to be compensated if you find their content useful/entertaining. The difference is they let you choose how much you want to give.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

travellerw said:


> Youtube has very very strict rules about using music with rights. Even if that music is playing on a radio in the background. Many vloggers have to ditch good video cause a tune can be heard in the background.


I know.. I have made videos that get taken off of Youtube because it had a chorus and verse of Hank Williams Sr. "Hey Good Looking"

And probably it was taking off illegally, but if a music company tells youtube to remove it they do... no questions...



travellerw said:


> Now as to Patreon.. Its the way of the future. Think about it. A system where you are sure the money you give goes directly to the "entertainer" and none of it is siphoned by a coke snorting producer, cable company, or advertiser. Frankly I would much rather send money via Patreon then pay the cable company.


a bit of an irony there -- the cable company is the delivery system.. not the content provider.... I don't know how Patreon profits but clearly youtube profits off the advertising on content provided by others... You might say I would rather pay Wicked Salty, but not Youtube... I am not sure how you would work it by not paying cable... unless like the good old days you went to a movie theatre and they played sailing vidoes



travellerw said:


> It drives me bananas when people say they are "begging". Its nothing of the sort. They are providing content and asking to be compensated if you find their content useful/entertaining. The difference is they let you choose how much you want to give.


Begging might not be the best term.. but it is much closer to the guy on the corner playing his trumpet than the bouncer charging you a cover at the corner bar

And it is something I think about a bit -- both the trumpeter and the Patreon videos --- neither do I have to pay for.. and still enjoy.. with the trumpeter I can't avoid....so there are times when I wonder if I could charge him/her for forcing me to listen (ha)

I was watching a Julia Nunes appeal for Patreon.. she actually said.. that she accepts people who pirate her music, because given the choice of people paying or not paying.. in the end she wanted people to hear her music.. even if they didn't pay for it...


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## dilligaf0220 (Jul 29, 2015)

I don't know which vids you are watching, but all of the popular sailing vlogs I'm subbed to either use ROYALTY-free music, or they have been given limited use licenses by indie artists to promote their music.

There's a whole cottage industry providing royalty free music for video production, Pond5, Break port & freeplaymusic are some of the familiar ones.

There is a modest fee (modest by recording standards), but it is a one time cost. Different sites will have different terms.


And no, having a radio or television in the background will not get your video pulled or suddenly have your YouTube Partner account Scroogled.


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## dilligaf0220 (Jul 29, 2015)

Just ask DrakeParagon what his specifics are, he uses mostly Pond5 music for his soundtracks I believe.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

dilligaf0220 said:


> I don't know which vids you are watching, but all of the popular sailing vlogs I'm subbed to either use ROYALTY-free music, or they have been given limited use licenses by indie artists to promote their music.
> 
> There's a whole cottage industry providing royalty free music for video production, Pond5, Break port & freeplaymusic are some of the familiar ones.
> 
> ...


It's kind of my point... I think the belief of those sites you list are royalty free. for use, but I don't believe they are for you to profit. There are various versions of Creative Commons.. some are to use with out restriction

even so... should one use free music to make a profit on their videos.. or should they be tossing the musician a bone or two.

I am pretty sure I have had a video taken down because of the background music.


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## Sea&Stars (Jul 22, 2015)

Just started vlogging my Seafarer 22 refit. All the music there, I've created. Not considered the Patrion route yet, but with only 13 subscribers it'll be a while. I see my participation on YouTube as a self indulgence and motivation to learn more about multitrack recording and nonlinear video editing. The boat project as a subject just seems interesting to me. I hope people find it entertaining but don't particularly see it as viral fodder. One thing I've learned is that it's not that easy to put something together that makes sense, moreover it's really hard to be entertaining, so if someone out there is pushing all the right buttons for you, and you'd like to see more... well, money talks. Some of the people who use others music on Youtube are paying royalties, there is a way it can be done that's legit and everyone benefits.

And now for a shameless plug of my channel : 




Be sure to subscribe and thumbs up !
Matt


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## dilligaf0220 (Jul 29, 2015)

titustiger27 said:


> It's kind of my point... I think the belief of those sites you list are royalty free. for use, but I don't believe they are for you to profit. There are various versions of Creative Commons.. some are to use with out restriction
> 
> even so... should one use free music to make a profit on their videos.. or should they be tossing the musician a bone or two.
> 
> I am pretty sure I have had a video taken down because of the background music.


That is the exact point of these sites, they provide a cheap alternative of decent sounding music for profit generating video production instead of the typical canned Muzak. Independent artists getting paid by independent content producers, bypassing the entire tentacled music industry. Darn somebody better complain about it!

Sorry, but you're going to have to take your stick and stir a different pile!


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

dilligaf0220 said:


> That is the exact point of these sites, they provide a cheap alternative of decent sounding music for profit generating video production instead of the typical canned Muzak. Independent artists getting paid by independent content producers, bypassing the entire tentacled music industry. Darn somebody better complain about it!
> *
> Sorry, but you're going to have to take your stick and stir a different pile!*


Why do you get defensive about this?

I think it is ironic in the context that one 'artist' takes another artists music and profits from it. Now the fact you disregard the Creative Common.. makes me wonder if you are taking the music and doing the same.. and are offended that someone might suggest all the artists should get paid..

O well.. that is fine..

I do see that most of the songs on Pond5 have a charge... and if the vlogs are paying that then there is nothing any profiting off of free music.

Again sorry this discussion and question seems to be a pile of poop to you.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Sea&Stars said:


> Just started vlogging my Seafarer 22 refit. All the music there, I've created. Not considered the Patrion route yet, but with only 13 subscribers it'll be a while. I see my participation on YouTube as a self indulgence and motivation to learn more about multitrack recording and nonlinear video editing. The boat project as a subject just seems interesting to me.
> 
> ** snip }
> 
> ...


wholely awesome..

Not the kind of video I would normally watch... I'm more into the travel... but

Well Played it and changed screens and started doing something where I only heard the music and thought kind of hard for installing something on your boat... then

I listened and watched and realized with the stop animation quality of the video the music was perfect... including how the edits were on the beat.. and so much so that when the light was flickering through the trees it had the same sense....

Nice.

Question.. If lots of people wanted to know how to do multi track recording and you made a video of it --- i.e. providing a service.. would you consider patreon then since you are giving people a service.. I guess installing that hatch is a service.. too

If you because the how to guy.. I could see a value in it that people might want to pay for...


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Here is a cruisers patreon offering:

https://www.patreon.com/followtheboat?ty=c


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Patreon for videos does seem much like tossing a bill in a street performers hat. I have no problem with it.

However, imagine there are literally thousands of performers on the same street, one will be naturally become discriminating to which they toss that dollar. Suddenly quality and competitiveness become the factor, not just a random reward. 

I just saw Wicked Salty's pre-pitch that they were launching a Patreon campaign in the near future. Good for them. I will be interested to see how it goes. They ran out of money and finished their cruise and want to get back out there. Who wouldn't? I watched their entire series, because it reminded me of being their age and how that would have been a great adventure then. Their editing is on the low end of the scale, but I didn't care at all. Would I pay to watch? I don't think so. Maybe, but I don't think so. The trouble is, I don't know how to decide who's to pay for. 

I guess you could say that making the videos is work, but I don't think it's going to pay for medical care, fund your kids college education or secure a retirement (each of which, many people want those with real jobs to fund with their taxes). Most everyone needs to get real work eventually.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Minnewaska said:


> Patreon for videos does seem much like tossing a bill in a street performers hat. I have no problem with it.
> 
> However, imagine there are literally thousands of performers on the same street, one will be naturally become discriminating to which they toss that dollar. Suddenly quality and competitiveness become the factor, not just a random reward.
> 
> ...


I started wondering about all of this when I saw that Wicked Salty video.. actually started a little when I was watching a Cruising LeaLea 'hangout.' You could see they originally didn't want to ask for money, to basically subsidize their retirement. nothing wrong with asking for money..

Certainly sailing videos all have quality, but with the advent of computers and editing tools, it's not like trying to make a video with a 16mm film you have to get developed (and not wet).

Great post about "imagine there are literally thousands of performers on the same street." When it comes to the internet I see two things that reign: who was first and who is amazing good.

My reason for the thread are still the same.. wondering why and how...and so on. and where does it go..

I remember when people started blogging... and somehow they were considered 'experts' of sort, if only because they were doing it. Now there are millions of blogs and really the ones that seem to stand out are: 1) appeal to a niche that wants a voice; 2) you have been doing it for a long time and earned an audience; and 3) someone with lots of money and the need to watch them -- i.e. news media (and their reporters)

I suspect this will be the same for vlogs...

I do wonder when people will start asking for money for everything (some might know that Donald Trump has asked $10 million from CNN (to be donated to charity) to debate).

Should I set up a Patreon account, for example, for people to fund my forum posts? Will someone like Dennis Conner be given a stipend from a sailing forum to not write articles, but to participate in forums


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## GCASKEW (Aug 24, 2011)

I've been watching Vlogs and reading blogs for a pretty good while. I follow MANY blogs and a few Vlogs and I am a Patreaon for Sailing Uma and will join Greenspot Pirates this week. It's not much money and the video's keep me going till I can get out there. 
I also bought the Bumfuzzle book and have donated to several blogs...


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

GCASKEW said:


> I've been watching Vlogs and reading blogs for a pretty good while. I follow MANY blogs and a few Vlogs and I am a Patreaon for Sailing Uma and will join Greenspot Pirates this week. It's not much money and the video's keep me going till I can get out there.
> I also bought the Bumfuzzle book and have donated to several blogs...


O great.. if you don't mind...

I think the Sailing Uma is a great new vlog (top notch editing and to some degree story telling).. but two things.. did it bother you that it was very regular, until the woman had to work on her visa? I guess if you pay per video.. it doesn't matter how the come out....

related, what is important to you.. like why that one and not others.

I think if I was to support one, it would be Wicked Salty because the way they kind of fumble through things is something I identify with

(Sailing La Vagabonde and Delos are great, but I sort of think of them richer and smarter than I.. not to mention so much better looking.. i.e. I can't identify with them as people --- for the record.. most everyone is richer, smarter and better looking than I am)


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

When our member here, Sequitur, published their book chronicling their sail from the Pacific Northwest around Cape Horn and up the East Coast of the US, I bought it. I never really opened a page afterwards, I just enjoyed their entire trip vicariously and did so just to support them. 

As I recall, their posts and blogs were very well done and timely. As a personal preference, I understand a production delay, but don't feel as connected when it's more than a few months off. 

Anyway, it occurs to me that buying their book was little different from supporting a vlog. I'm still not sure I will just send $$ to a vlog that would otherwise be free and has tons of free competition.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Same here.. I like the Accidental Sailor Girl (https://www.youtube.com/user/AccidentalSailorGirl).. I guess I would consider their Patreon, but probably not. I did buy her book and read it.. it was a good primer for her vlog, partially because I think she deliberately avoids covering topics in the book so peole have a reason to read/buy the book..

Her music is often her or or boyfriend playing music... which often are their own songs...


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## dilligaf0220 (Jul 29, 2015)

Minnewaska said:


> When our member here, Sequitur, published their book chronicling their sail from the Pacific Northwest around Cape Horn and up the East Coast of the US, I bought it. I never really opened a page afterwards, I just enjoyed their entire trip vicariously and did so just to support them.
> 
> As I recall, their posts and blogs were very well done and timely. As a personal preference, I understand a production delay, but don't feel as connected when it's more than a few months off.
> 
> Anyway, it occurs to me that buying their book was little different from supporting a vlog. I'm still not sure I will just send $$ to a vlog that would otherwise be free and has tons of free competition.


The couple from Distant Shores have done an enviable job monetizing their cruising online through Vimeo's PPV system. Short teaser vids with the option of buying full half hour broadcast quality episodes, or even full seasons. YouTube doesn't pay much until your view count starts regularly exceeding 100k per vid, which isn't realistically going to happen for sailing vids.

And contrary to popular belief, you CAN use most commercial music in a YouTube video. To do so though you need to have ads enabled. And you can't monetize them (share in the ad revenue generated)

There's a list from Google somewhere that has all the record labels and/or artists, they're the ones that auto generate an accreditation & hyperlink in the vids info box.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I turn off the ads, perhaps that is why most vids with music gets booted.

And I would guess all the folks who are profiting from ads on their videos would notice this --- I know Wicked Salty posted his first pay check from Youtube.. after six months or so, the couple made 25¢ or less


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> When our member here, Sequitur, published their book chronicling their sail from the Pacific Northwest around Cape Horn and up the East Coast of the US, I bought it. I never really opened a page afterwards, I just enjoyed their entire trip vicariously and did so just to support them.
> 
> As I recall, their posts and blogs were very well done and timely. As a personal preference, I understand a production delay, but don't feel as connected when it's more than a few months off.
> 
> Anyway, it occurs to me that buying their book was little different from supporting a vlog. I'm still not sure I will just send $$ to a vlog that would otherwise be free and has tons of free competition.


Well one thing about buying the book, is it was after the fact. You know they did what they set out to do (well in Sequitor's case at least completed what they did and decided that it was not for them) and you are more so rewarding them rather than supporting. To me giving a kid money to not have to work and go play on a boat is very different to rewarding someone who has worked hard to get what they wanted. Seems to me you give money to some of these folks and there is no guarantee that they will continue on.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

miatapaul said:


> Well one thing about buying the book, is it was after the fact. You know they did what they set out to do (well in Sequitor's case at least completed what they did and decided that it was not for them) and you are more so rewarding them rather than supporting. To me giving a kid money to not have to work and go play on a boat is very different to rewarding someone who has worked hard to get what they wanted. Seems to me you give money to some of these folks and there is no guarantee that they will continue on.


I bounce around on this issue a lot. I do enjoy the people taking time in their life to 'play' but I don't see it as play as much as a gamble in many ways. I have been without a job at times and tried to enjoy that time from a job... and these folks after five years might be in serious trouble.. in debt and without health insurance [do they need to get affordable health care.. it's why I was hoping people who do this would comment] with an illness ...

It's a gamble I never was willing to take.. even if I thought i could get someone to be my patron.

In the end I enjoy the videos and am glad they were made.

Look at the people who think they are going to make it in the music business and eschew 'working' in hopes of making it big.. not sure if I think the Vloggers are doing anything different... sex, drugs and rock & roll or videoing your sailing adventure.

And the pay as you go model of Patreon makes me wonder... If I pledge $25 a video and they 100 videos in two months, that is $2,500 when I thought I might be contributing $250.

Like you mentioned on the 'reward' concept... you see the finish product and then decide if it is worth your purchase.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

miatapaul said:


> ....you are more so rewarding them rather than supporting......


Has me thinking. I'm not all that interested in supporting someone else's sailing habit. No one supports mine. I was the first person in my family to go to college out of high school, took some professional risks and worked hard. I support my own and the game ain't over yet.

I am good with rewarding an entertaining event. Arguably, the contribution are a way for these vlog producers to be paid for that work, instead of more traditional work. However, I haven't heard of a model that is really all that legit, just enough to play.

Not sure in the end what difference that means.


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

I agree, I don't get anyone paying me to sail. I'm trying to marry my fiancee so I can tap into that purse for the sailing fund! Haha! (as a note, she knows my intentions and laughs at it, but she's also willing to pay because she's just as ready as me to go cruising) I think asking for change from users is OK, no one HAS to pay. And most don't. Let's get real, they aren't exactly waiting our tables as a service. Street performers was a good analogy for it. They are there doing what they know how to do well(most of the time) and hope that someone likes it enough to go, "Hey this guy is pretty good, thanks for impressing me and making my day. Here's a dollar." Its up to the viewer or reader. 

I have a blog and make videos but I won't have a patreon.. I'd rather someone's time than there money at this stage. I can't seem to get enough hours in a day.



Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

There isn't anything wrong with trying to make a living (money) off of something you love. Often the criticism I see is "Why pay them, to do what I like to do." or people saying --- I would like to do the same...

I'm also interested in if they have a business plan... not just financially, but promotional. Most people trying to make money off of the video making expects everyone to find them. 

I don't know the answer to this, since all the things I tried to promote were different entities.. 

Some don't even respond much to their comment sections.. Very few go out to sources. Like posting on forums... Cruising LeaLea does post a blog and a vlog.. (and my personal opinion) just when they started to get some momentum, they took the summer off. 

Another thing many don't do, is twitter... sure they all have twitter and they post things like.. just had a great beer, here is the sunset... but they don't go the next step of sharing via twitter their activities related to sailing -- as in posting to this thread, then sharing it :laugh

I am waiting for someone to call their boat : SailingBlog.com not so personal, but promotes your vlog in every port.

The biggest problem for building an audience (in general and with Patreon) for a cruising video is the fact that often you are away from the internet... and really far from fast internet.


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> There isn't anything wrong with trying to make a living (money) off of something you love. Often the criticism I see is "Why pay them, to do what I like to do." or people saying --- I would like to do the same...
> 
> I'm also interested in if they have a business plan... not just financially, but promotional. Most people trying to make money off of the video making expects everyone to find them.
> 
> ...


I have a twitter for the boat/website that I post on frequently. You can see the posts on the website and vice versa. I'm only in the last stages of fitting the boat but I still like to post tweets on what's going on in between website posts.

I enjoy it and wouldn't stop if I didn't get paid. I don't now, so don't expect to later.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

SailRedemption said:


> I have a twitter for the boat/website that I post on frequently. You can see the posts on the website and vice versa. I'm only in the last stages of fitting the boat but I still like to post tweets on what's going on in between website posts.
> 
> I enjoy it and wouldn't stop if I didn't get paid. I don't now, so don't expect to later.


But you understand my point

Once you are saying "this is my job, pay me" you should be doing the job

Which makes me wonder why you don't list your blog/vlog?


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## dilligaf0220 (Jul 29, 2015)

titustiger27 said:


> There isn't anything wrong with trying to make a living (money) off of something you love. Often the criticism I see is "Why pay them, to do what I like to do." or people saying --- I would like to do the same...
> 
> I'm also interested in if they have a business plan... not just financially, but promotional. Most people trying to make money off of the video making expects everyone to find them.
> 
> ...


https://vimeo.com/distantshorestv

Here's a couple that have taken it as far as you probably can go to make a buck online from cruising. They've been at it awhile now and are more than self sufficient to cruise indefinitely at a profit.

Here's two podcasts with them, the second one touches on the more traditional ways to work while cruising.

http://thesailingpodcast.com/distant-shores-tv-series/

http://thesailingpodcast.com/make-money-while-cruising/


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

A *VERY interesting topic!!*

I have had a web page up and running from before there was such a thing as a blog. :laugh I am a geezer.

We have been posting a batch of videos (over 130) that cover travel, cruising, boat maintenance, reviews of gear, and tips for boating. So far I have gotten a few pennies from the advertising ads.

But as far a Patreon, I have some very mixed feelings.

After we were out for a few years, with urging of a movie guy, we made 5 DVDs for sale. BUT, they were created after, and we didn't ask for $$ to get us going. They sold for a bit, but sales have fallen off now that they have been out for a time.

Over the last few (MANY) weeks, I have been working way over 40 hours a week to create some very new videos in a format no one else seems to be using. I had to obtain new gear to edit and shoot. I will announce it tomorrow in the video section of the board.

I did the web pages and first Youtube videos as sort of a payback for all the help and advice I got from others when I we were preparing to go cruising, but I am wondering if it's now time to ask for just a bit for all the new work I am doing.

Should I consider the the Patreon system? Still not sure??????

By the way, I do use a music service for our videos and pay for use. But I STILL have to prove it to Youtube on almost every video I post. :frown

Greg


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

dilligaf0220 said:


> https://vimeo.com/distantshorestv
> 
> Here's a couple that have taken it as far as you probably can go to make a buck online from cruising. They've been at it awhile now and are more than self sufficient to cruise indefinitely at a profit.
> 
> ...


Watched the trailer.. started the podcast

If the trailer follows through on it's promise, it seems like they have the right approach for making money (Not from me, I read a lot about cruising, but not especially concern on how to)

• presenting itself as a TV Series (maybe I am just old school), sounds kind of professional.

• the how to approach seems wiser than : "Hey watch us have fun on your dime"

(Can't judge on this, but ) Ironic though the people who make money, are the ones who tell you how to make money...:devil


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Delezynski said:


> A *VERY interesting topic!!*
> 
> ( snip )
> Over the last few (MANY) weeks, I have been working way over 40 hours a week to create some very new videos in a format no one else seems to be using. I had to obtain new gear to edit and shoot. I will announce it tomorrow in the video section of the board.
> ...


Experience is a great teacher... I just watched your trailer.. nice.. especially considering that is the first thing people will see when they come to your page... I understand people grow and get better... but you should always make your trailer be your best stuff. I am amazed at the bad sound/bad editing some people use as their first impression

And 40 hours in the editing room.. well that is a reason why people might want to get paid.. though no one should confuse an amateurs time in the video making compared to someone with talent..

I always like it when people decide to go the Patreon... or any kind of pay.. route after they have put in the hours to be good...

As much you have informative.. your problem with being a Patreon Star (please don't be offended) your videos have information (about changing a trailer tire and towing in the one I am watching) and not a lot of 20-semethings in bikinis

:2 boat:


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> ... SNIP ...
> 
> As much you have informative.. your problem with being a Patreon Star (please don't be offended) your videos have information (about changing a trailer tire and towing in the one I am watching) and not a lot of 20-semethings in bikinis


NO offense taken! :laugh
And believe me, *you DO NOT want to see me in a bikini!!!!!*

That tire stuff was in one video as we were trailing cross country. Just trying to show it as part of our cruising.....

I did hear a story about a couple our age cruising the Pacific Northwest, and were boarded many times by the USCG. They took the step of taking a naked shower on the fordeck when a USCG dink went into the water. They were NEVER boarded again by the 20 something year old guys! :devil

Greg


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> But you understand my point
> 
> Once you are saying "this is my job, pay me" you should be doing the job
> 
> Which makes me wonder why you don't list your blog/vlog?


Oh, I get ya brotha.

I don't know, I try not to overbrand our stuff and just throw it everywhere in people's faces. It's in my profile on here. Plus you can Google SailRedemption and it should pop up on the first page I believe.

But since your asking, and I guess it's relevant redemptiverepair.com

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Delezynski said:


> NO offense taken! :laugh
> And believe me, *you DO NOT want to see me in a bikini!!!!!*
> 
> That tire stuff was in one video as we were trailing cross country. Just trying to show it as part of our cruising.....
> ...


giggled at that one..

I like those kinds of stories... even if they aren't true.

I'm on the second video now.. and done

these are entertaining and helpful..


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> giggled at that one..
> I like those kinds of stories... even if they aren't true.
> I'm on the second video now.. and done
> these are entertaining and helpful..


Thanks for the kind wards.

Jill just spoke up, "You might have something there, do ya think we can have people pay to NOT see us naked?"

Greg


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

SailRedemption said:


> Oh, I get ya brotha.
> 
> I don't know, I try not to overbrand our stuff and just throw it everywhere in people's faces. It's in my profile on here. Plus you can Google SailRedemption and it should pop up on the first page I believe.
> 
> ...


Thanks --- I searched your twitter and found it through that.. I wish blogs would have a button that you could flip them and read them in the order they were produced..

very graphically pleasing..

you get big credibility from me with a Bukowski quote

I thought I saw you list Slidell somewhere.. there was a woman who did a couple of my plays (with senior citizens) there...


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Delezynski said:


> Thanks for the kind wards.
> 
> Jill just spoke up, "You might have something there, do ya think we can have people pay to NOT see us naked?"
> 
> Greg


I see Jill is the money person...

or at very least the brains of the operation..

_Sail on sailor
_


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> I see Jill is the money person...
> 
> or at very least the brains of the operation..
> 
> ...


We ARE a team, but I do follow a lot.... :laugh

Greg


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> Thanks --- I searched your twitter and found it through that.. I wish blogs would have a button that you could flip them and read them in the order they were produced..
> 
> very graphically pleasing..
> 
> ...


Yea, it's hard to do that with WordPress. com.. I'll look into it again though. I say the same thing when I visit a new blog.

Thanks for the kind words, it took me a while to find a theme that I really liked that was visually pleasing to the viewer. Never know when someone my pay you for it... Wait, what? 

Yea, had that quote for a while saved and been wanting to use it. I like to add a quote if I can to a post that best describes it at a glance. Kind of like a lure to get th click further.

Yes, I'm in Slidell! Who was the woman? Slidell used to be a small town, may know her.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Delezynski said:


> We ARE a team, but I do follow a lot.... :laugh
> 
> Greg


Speaking of which.. and a suggestion..

Couple months ago I read a book: "Small Boat to Freedom" by John Vigor.

Through the book he would occasionally quote his wife's journal to show what she was thinking and at the end she wrote four or five pages.. kind of a 'her epilog' I always think when I see a vlog that involves a couple, what the other person might be thinking.. Like when your brakes caught on fire... It might be nice to have the wife have a little piece.. "When the brakes caught on fire it made me think... _of getting barbecue_


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> ... SNIP....
> It might be nice to have the wife have a little piece.. "When the brakes caught on fire it made me think... _of getting barbecue_


THANKS for the put! Very good and I (Greg) do try to get more of her on the videos. She is a bit shy about videos of her. She thinks people don't want to see her. I KNOW BETTER, but as just the husband, am not listened to all that much.

And to the specifics of the example....
I am the Bar-B-Q nut in the family and I did have some of her thoughts about that brake fire, but Jill is, after all, a sailor! And I couldn't use her words in public. :eek

Greg


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

SailRedemption said:


> Yea, it's hard to do that with WordPress. com.. I'll look into it again though. I say the same thing when I visit a new blog.


Of course the trouble with that, once you flip it.. the people who just want to read the newest posts have to tread through



SailRedemption said:


> Thanks for the kind words, it took me a while to find a theme that I really liked that was visually pleasing to the viewer. Never know when someone my pay you for it... Wait, what?
> 
> Yea, had that quote for a while saved and been wanting to use it. I like to add a quote if I can to a post that best describes it at a glance. Kind of like a lure to get th click further.


Yes, I'm in Slidell! Who was the woman? Slidell used to be a small town, may know her.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

I can't find any e-mails from her.. to tell you it was about 15 years ago and my yahoo account only goes back five years...


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

Delezynski said:


> NO offense taken! :laugh
> And believe me, *you DO NOT want to see me in a bikini!!!!!*
> 
> That tire stuff was in one video as we were trailing cross country. Just trying to show it as part of our cruising.....
> ...


Hahaha! That's rich!

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Delezynski said:


> THANKS for the put! Very good and I (Greg) do try to get more of her on the videos. She is a bit shy about videos of her. She thinks people don't want to see her. I KNOW BETTER, but as just the husband, am not listened to all that much.
> 
> And to the specifics of the example....
> I am the Bar-B-Q nut in the family and I did have some of her thoughts about that brake fire, but Jill is, after all, a sailor! And I couldn't use her words in public. :eek
> ...


Ha..

I don't mean to go back.. just a thought

In Wicked Salty the guy is always doing selfie videos and will suddenly put the camera on his girl friend and ask her something which catches her off guard...

and there are just times where I think : I know what you are thinking.. but was the other person nervous.... or what.

But if the other person doesn't want to be on camera.. there is that.


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> Of course the trouble with that, once you flip it.. the people who just want to read the newest posts have to tread through
> 
> Yes, I'm in Slidell! Who was the woman? Slidell used to be a small town, may know her.
> 
> Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


I can't find any e-mails from her.. to tell you it was about 15 years ago and my yahoo account only goes back five years...[/QUOTE]
Yea but it could be nice to have a page starting from the beginning at least. But I don't think that's possible with WordPress, I'll look though.

Oh nice! PM coming your way dude!

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> ....SNIP....
> 
> But if the other person doesn't want to be on camera.. there is that.


And when you are married to the other person... :eek

I think we have a bit of topic drift, but FUN!

I still do not know if I may try to use Patreon or not????

I do NOT like the kickstarter type of funding for people who want to go some place, or do something I worked my **&%$ to get to be able to do. The, just send me money cauze I want to go cruising on a boat!

But funding after the work is complete is another thing. But I might just be showing my age?

I guess Patreon is sort of half way in between.

Greg


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Delezynski said:


> And when you are married to the other person... :eek
> 
> I think we have a bit of topic drift, but FUN!
> 
> ...


My opinions vary, but I like the kick starter for projects. And often the projects are those the participant are qualified for..

For example: a musician or author wants to make a CD or Novel (or non-fiction) they have the talent -- or has demonstrated.

They plan to give back, so if it will take $2,000 to record the CD and they charge 400 people $5 a piece (and those people get the albumn in the end).. I see it no different than people who pre-purchase Taylor Swifts next album.

And often there are bonuses involved. Like maybe those 400 people get an autographed copy.. or extra liner notes or a ticket for the release party.

I actually think in a way this is paying ahead, with the understanding you will get back. The things that stand out are not the tradition thinks like a book or a music Album, but someone has developed a new product that they need money to create the final product

The negative is you get one of the items for your investment, but you don't profit on your investment. Seems like backers should be buying stock and if the new autopilot for a boat might cost $200 to develop and you invest... and the designer charges $200 to 1,000 people, but is able to make a million off that $200,000, it seems like the investors should get an autopilot and maybe $40 on their investment.

I think that is one negative thing I have about investing (Patreon or Kickstarter) in something... you are gambling that it works.. or is good. You pay $10 a video (for example) and it is a piece of crap.. you lose, but if it is great *and* through the advertizing on the youtube channel the videographer generates $5,000 from 500 people it seems you should get your video you paid for and $10 profit.

On a tangent, it is one of the problems I have with some government jobs.. You get a paycheck for your services (which is fine), but sometimes you also get paid education, which makes you more valuable (in your job or future jobs) and the tax payers have supported you, but don't get any of the profit....of you getting paid more.


----------



## The Sailing Podcast (May 16, 2012)

If you would like to see an example of a successful Patreon campaign look for Sailing La Vagabonde on Patreon.

I caught up with Riley and Elayna in Episode 57 of The Sailing Podcast and we chatted about how they became popular and how they are directing their audience to Patreon

thesailingpodcast.com/57

thesailingpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Patreon-LaVagabonde-300x227.png

sorry, can't add links yet...


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

The Sailing Podcast said:


> If you would like to see an example of a successful Patreon campaign look for Sailing La Vagabonde on Patreon.
> 
> I caught up with Riley and Elayna in Episode 57 of The Sailing Podcast and we chatted about how they became popular and how they are directing their audience to Patreon
> 
> ...


VERY interesting. Listening to it now..........

Greg


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

The Sailing Podcast said:


> If you would like to see an example of a successful Patreon campaign look for Sailing La Vagabonde on Patreon.
> 
> I caught up with Riley and Elayna in Episode 57 of The Sailing Podcast and we chatted about how they became popular and how they are directing their audience to Patreon
> 
> ...


So this is good to promote your site, and Riley and Elayna through our podcast ..

I see that La Vagabonde has been doing interviews a bit now.. which is good for their sites.. did they contact you.. or did you contact them?

Sailing La Vagabonde - The Sailing Podcast


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> ....snip....
> I see that La Vagabonde has been doing interviews a bit now.. which is good for their sites.. did they contact you.. or did you contact them?


?????
Greg


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

The Sailing Podcast said:


> If you would like to see an example of a successful Patreon campaign look for Sailing La Vagabonde on Patreon.
> 
> I caught up with Riley and Elayna in Episode 57 of The Sailing Podcast and we chatted about how they became popular and how they are directing their audience to Patreon
> 
> ...


Nice podcast, if I had a criticism it was you were so buddy buddy with the Australian connection, but it was a fun information


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## The Sailing Podcast (May 16, 2012)

I contacted Elayna and Riley after watching some of their videos on YouTube. It came about after contacting them via Facebook. At the time they didn't have a website and, as is often the case, they were off having an adventure.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

The Sailing Podcast said:


> I contacted Elayna and Riley after watching some of their videos on YouTube. It came about after contacting them via Facebook. At the time they didn't have a website and, as is often the case, they were off having an adventure.


I am not so surprised (that they didn't have a web page) There are a few that seem to think about this as a money making endeavor..... at first...

Either they throw up a video of what they did and have fun doing it.. or they make a video to let the family and friends know they are okay (Cruising LeaLea)...

Then it becomes a second thought after there seems to be a lot of interest.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

should have mentioned this earlier






Wicky Salty is doing a Patreon Launch party now August 29 - 4 p.m. est.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

The hang out was interesting.. I wonder what it would be if there was a conference of Sailing Vlogs.... 

I guess they do have Youtube star conferences... I don't know if I would care to meet one or another.. but I would be interested in a panel discussion.. not just of the 'famous' folks.. but even the famous people from Sailnet that do this Cruising LeaLea, S/V Guenevere's Adventure and others


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> .....SNIP....
> a panel discussion.. not just of the 'famous' folks.


Sounds like an interesting idea. Not sure how it would work. I sure am not smart enough to get one together.

Maybe a "Gam" one evening a week or month? Skipe would be nice & easy, but some one would need to record it?

Greg


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Delezynski said:


> Sounds like an interesting idea. Not sure how it would work. I sure am not smart enough to get one together.
> 
> Maybe a "Gam" one evening a week or month? Skipe would be nice & easy, but some one would need to record it?
> 
> Greg


The problem would be getting it started... And I don't sense there is any rendezvous place for the vloggers --- that is, I don't think if you took 10-20 people making sailing videos, how many are in the Caribbean or Florida in June? Sailing or traveling. I would guess there would have to be some that aren't even in this hemisphere.

I guess one way would be to have The Annaopolis Boat Show to sponsor it. I see it is in October.. so took late for this year... but Assume that a lot sailors might drive/fly there for a nominal fee....

One thought would be one that doesn't work--- say there are four people vlogging in the same boat -- and the manufacture sponsors it.

I think it would be the perfect draw for the boat show.. you have a lot of people (like myself) who have various interests in sailing but aren't cruisers.. but might be... and you would be drawing those people right where sailboats are for sale

You could have a drone and goPro booth and so on....


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> The problem would be getting it started...
> SNIP....
> 
> I think it would be the perfect draw for the boat show.. you have a lot of people (like myself) who have various interests in sailing but aren't cruisers.. but might be... and you would be drawing those people right where sailboats are for sale


Looks like you have some good ideas, Sounds like you should run with it. If you get a start from one of the shows, put out a call and see if any of the Vblogers are interested.

Like in my old job, you have a good idea, now you go work it..... :eek

Greg


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Delezynski said:


> Looks like you have some good ideas, Sounds like you should run with it. If you get a start from one of the shows, put out a call and see if any of the Vblogers are interested.
> 
> Like in my old job, you have a good idea, now you go work it..... :eek
> 
> Greg


I'm too old... plus.. I am in the middle of organizing a project right now, that reminds me how frustrating it is to have a good idea that no one wants to help with.


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> I'm too old... plus.. I am in the middle of organizing a project right now, that reminds me how frustrating it is to have a good idea that no one wants to help with.


I, myself, find that there is just not enough time in the day! And I still need to get back out to the boat and head out as long as we still can.

Greg


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Delezynski said:


> I, myself, find that there is just not enough time in the day! And I still need to get back out to the boat and head out as long as we still can.
> 
> Greg


and there is that :laugh

:2 boat:


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Delezynski said:


> I, myself, find that there is just not enough time in the day! And I still need to get back out to the boat and head out as long as we still can.
> 
> Greg


hey hey

360 posting
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMq93S6MbU_Z7c_215V1riQ

kind of impressive


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> hey hey
> 
> 360 posting
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMq93S6MbU_Z7c_215V1riQ
> ...


I see you found my new page, THANKS.:smile

It's something I can do and share, and still be on the boat and work at my own pace. Posting another short tomorrow.

Greg


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Delezynski said:


> I see you found my new page, THANKS.:smile
> 
> It's something I can do and share, and still be on the boat and work at my own pace. Posting another short tomorrow.
> 
> Greg


The first one I watched I spun down and couldn't get back up

.. um story of my life :eek


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

titustiger27 said:


> The first one I watched I spun down and couldn't get back up
> 
> .. um story of my life :eek


Takes just a bit of getting used to.
I have a headset that fits my smartphone to display them. With it on, when I turn my head in a direction, I see that direction just as if I was on the boat! I can see getting sea sick from this if not careful. :eek

I idea is to work into having the viewer actually feel like they are there with us.

I am hoping to get better vids as time goes on and I find the best place to set the camera.

Greg


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Delezynski said:


> Takes just a bit of getting used to.
> I have a headset that fits my smartphone to display them. With it on, when I turn my head in a direction, I see that direction just as if I was on the boat! I can see getting sea sick from this if not careful. :eek
> 
> I idea is to work into having the viewer actually feel like they are there with us.
> ...


is it either or 360 or not -- one or the other?

could you edit a drone fly in, then into 360?

I am thinking it is something to be consumed in small doses


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

*Re: Virtual reality sailing videos*



titustiger27 said:


> is it either or 360 or not -- one or the other?
> 
> could you edit a drone fly in, then into 360?
> 
> I am thinking it is something to be consumed in small doses


A bit of thread drift here. I changed the subject line......I hope.

At this time, as far as I know, it takes a special camera and you can't convert standard video to 360 VR.

You can google up 360 cameras and see a batch, from home made to ready to purchase.

You can fly the cameras on a drone, but not a very small one.

Greg


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

*Re: Virtual reality sailing videos and patreon questions*



Delezynski said:


> A bit of thread drift here. I changed the subject line......I hope.
> 
> At this time, as far as I know, it takes a special camera and you can't convert standard video to 360 VR.
> 
> ...


I mean can you combine a 360 video (in editing) with non-360 vids


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

*Re: Virtual reality sailing videos and patreon questions*



titustiger27 said:


> I mean can you combine a 360 video (in editing) with non-360 vids


Oh, sorry, I didn't understand.

YES, as a matter of fact, all of the ones I have posted do have standard HD NON-360 video in them. The opening in the ones I have posted is standard video. Also, one I am working on and will be posting soon has some still photos I took in it. The thing I am trying to figure out is how to direct the viewer to the pictures. If they are looking in another direction, they might not even know the photo was there. AND, at the same time, I do not want the photo to linger so long that some one viewing it gets tired of it. 

Greg!


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

*Re: Virtual reality sailing videos and patreon questions*



Delezynski said:


> Oh, sorry, I didn't understand.
> 
> YES, as a matter of fact, all of the ones I have posted do have standard HD NON-360 video in them. The opening in the ones I have posted is standard video. Also, one I am working on and will be posting soon has some still photos I took in it. The thing I am trying to figure out is how to direct the viewer to the pictures. If they are looking in another direction, they might not even know the photo was there. AND, at the same time, I do not want the photo to linger so long that some one viewing it gets tired of it.
> 
> Greg!


that is what I mean by having a drone swooping in.. then editing into a 360...

The ones of yours I don't see where the user control (look where you want to look) begins and ends


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

*Re: Virtual reality sailing videos and patreon questions*



titustiger27 said:


> that is what I mean by having a drone swooping in.. then editing into a 360...
> 
> The ones of yours I don't see where the user control (look where you want to look) begins and ends


On the ones I posted, the viewer has control all the way through, from beginning to end.

So if you look at the "360H Position Report, June 5, 2015 - Franklin Lock" at;





When it starts to play, if you look to the close right or left, you see a standard video running. If you look further, you see 2 still photos.

I don't know of a way, just yet, to make the viewer look at a specific direction. But I can fill the rest of the 360, outside of the standard video, with other items.

Greg

Can we open a new subject for this talk? We have drifted way off the subject of patron. I just posted a link to the video I posted this AM. Perhaps we could post in that thread??


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

*Re: Virtual reality sailing videos and patreon questions*



Delezynski said:


> On the ones I posted, the viewer has control all the way through, from beginning to end.
> 
> So if you look at the "360H Position Report, June 5, 2015 - Franklin Lock" at;
> 
> ...


I can't figure out what you are saying.. well I don't see it on my screen -- a mac with Chrome.

and Chromium..

other---

Where I live we have small locks (2-3 boat size)

I've realize two things about your videos that says more about me than you

1) the theme sounds like the love boat

2) you have kind of a Mutual of Omaha Wild Kingdom (Marlin Perkins) feel to your personal

"While I sit in the cockpit steering the boat, Jill jumps over the moat of alligators to tie us to the dock



Delezynski said:


> Can we open a new subject for this talk? We have drifted way off the subject of patron. I just posted a link to the video I posted this AM. Perhaps we could post in that thread??


sure...

I might have gone past my expertise to even ask a question... ha


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

Let's talk video on the post at....
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruising-videos/217130-virtual-reality-videos.html

Maybe I can help more, or describe it better there.

Greg


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

So are you using a 360* camera or are you using a program to stitch, say, two GoPros rigged for 3d?

So cool by the way, I'm subscribed! A whole new way to view sailing videos. Now all we need from you is a serious heavy weather video so we can really feel like we're there! 

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

SailRedemption said:


> So are you using a 360* camera or are you using a program to stitch, say, two GoPros rigged for 3d?
> 
> So cool by the way, I'm subscribed! A whole new way to view sailing videos. Now all we need from you is a serious heavy weather video so we can really feel like we're there!
> 
> Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


The videos are taken with one camera. Can't afford an army of GoPros!

THANKS for subscribing! At least I know some one is watching. I started to take the videos this way to see how it worked. It wasn't long before I was getting to see stuff I missed when I WAS THERE, but didn't have eyes in the back of my head. I do now! :eek

I have a US$15.00 head gear (like Google cardboard) that my smart phone slips into. When viewing it, the video tracks to the direction I look. SOOooooo, if I wear that in a cold shower (with ice), it would be just like heavy weather sailing, and I would need some Dramamine!

Greg


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