# packing gland



## mrkeith (Jan 25, 2006)

Hi, we had our packing gland 'fixed' last weekend and we went sailing yesterday and discovered the bilge filling up at an alarming rate, and we were unable to slow/stop the water. we tightened the nut, and tried various positions on the nut but it never shut down the leak. fortunately we had a guy who was willing to bail out the bilge for the entire time, but i was wondering is there anyway for someone to 'shut down' this leak ala like a seacock? we ended up getting it hoisted and are having it worked on, but was there anything i could have done to shut down the water intake completely? seems like a failure in the packing gland could have disastrous consequences. thanks


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I don't know of any way to quicky shut down a leak through the stern tube. You have to find the leak and fix it. It could have been from the mounting tube or bellows and not from the packing gland itself.

Diagram


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Sounds as if the gasket material was put in the packing gland wrong.


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## mrkeith (Jan 25, 2006)

yeah i think so, but if you are out at sea, is there any quick fix or stopgap measure i wonder?


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

mrkeith said:


> yeah i think so, but if you are out at sea, is there any quick fix or stopgap measure i wonder?


Somewhere I read, I no longer recall where, a method for replacing the packing gland while the boat's in the water. IIRC, it involved rolling out some silly putty (I think it was), placing it inside a plastic bag, and packing it around the prop shaft outside the stern tube. This, of course, necessitates a short dive under the boat.

Other than that, or hauling the boat, you're SOL. Personally, I'd be having stern words with whomever was responsible for "fixing" your packing gland. Btw: I'm no expert, but wouldn't it be a good idea to test a new packing gland installation before putting out to sea?

Jim


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Replace the packing material... We have done this at sea on much bigger boat with a much larger stuffing tube.
Plan on getting wet. Hoping that the sea water isn't cold. As you draw out the old placking and put in the new.
The reason the packing failed on my vessel was because the idiot took three wraps around the shaft and shoved it in.
We took new material and with a single turn around the shaft and cut at a 45 degree angle. Put in three of them with the cuts at 180 degree from each other.


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## Slooptattoo (Aug 4, 2007)

With the proper tools and the proper material, re packing a stuffing box at sea should not be a major event. Pre-cut your material have everything laid out and install it. Primary Bilge pump should handle what you take aboard while doing this. I have done this many times on many boats and agree with "Boasun".


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## mrkeith (Jan 25, 2006)

We took new material and with a single turn around the shaft and cut at a 45 degree angle. Put in three of them with the cuts at 180 degree from each other.[/quote]

ok that sounds hopeful, what you mean cut at 45 degree angle and then put 3 of them in at 180 degree from each other. i must be dense...sorry


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

You cut the material at a 45˚ angle, to help it layup nicely around the propshaft. You then stack the rings with the cut sections diametrically opposed from each other to help reduce water leakage—kind of like overlapping the shingles...


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## mrkeith (Jan 25, 2006)

i see, continuous loops, cut at 45 degree angle, 3 of them and then wrapped 180 degrees opposite of the other cut. then just slide nut over and tighten?

so the only way to stop the leak at sea is to replace the glands. hmmm this seems like one of the more vulnerable openings in the boat? no quick and easy shut off valve.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes and yes... 

You could always put the engine and prop shaft in to an engine compartment with water tight bulkheads...  Or use another solution, like a saildrive or an outboard, which don't have the leaking prop shaft... but they have their own problems.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Had the same problem a whole back and it was caused by incorrect assembly where the new gland was tightened on with not enough 'meat'. When we opend up the throttle the thing ripped clean off and ho boy did she start to fill up fast. 

All I could think off was the old adage "when in danger or in doubt, run in circles scream and shout."


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## mrkeith (Jan 25, 2006)

funny. thats exactly how i felt, i actually think thats exactly what happened too. the nut blew off and water started coming in pretty fast. i had a group of non sailor guests and we were about 10 miles from shore and i had to pretend nothing was wrong as i had another guy dumping 2-3 buckets of seawater over the side every 10 minutes or so. maybe they thought it was normal to be bailing for 7 hours..


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## trantor12020 (Mar 11, 2006)

When you withdraw the packing nut from the gland, it help if you could put a piece of cloth around the gland side to stem the flow of water whilst you work on the packings. Have someone hold that cloth would be better.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Read this article..*

I wrote this last spring to help folks get a better understanding or Stuffing boxes & re-packing:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

I always repack my stuffing box in the water. Much easier to tell whether you've done it correctly. It's quite simple, all you need is a length of bicycle inner tube rubber. Wrap this tightly around the shaft log and then back the nuts off and repack. No water will come in.


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Print out Halekai's article, and go to work. It's a great piece. When you're done, send him a thank you.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

IIRC, Halekai prefers liquid thank you notes...preferably Bud Lite...


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> IIRC, Halekai prefers liquid thank you notes...preferably Bud Lite...


Obviously, he should just email Halekai a six-pack of Bud Lite.


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## crwber (Dec 3, 2006)

try this:

" As regards the packing formula that's worked perfectly for me for years
without any attention to it, it's a combination of short green sticks of a
sort of Teflon-based putty used in conjunction with a synthetic flax that's
impregnated in Teflon as well.

Here's the thinking behind the combined use. The putty is inserted into
the packing cup and followed up with the flax which acts as a barrier to
hold the putty in place. In the last five or six years I might have
adjusted the cup and jamb nut tighter only once or possibly twice but I can
only remember the one time.

This stuff is available through West Marine either on line or in any
retail store. We can make a West Marine run next time you're here to get
the stuff if you wish. OK here's what to ask for:

1. Drip-Less Moldable Packing Kit, WM squ# 362931.....$69.99 US
2. TefPack Synthetic Shaft Packing, WM squ# 155221.....$10.99 US"


i was having trouble with leaks and used this on the reccomedation of a friend....see his email above. a bit pricey but have not had a drop through the stern gland since. well worth every penny.


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## BigCatOne (May 21, 2007)

*Packing is reliable but nothing is idiot proof*

No device is proof against idiots. As stated above, three wraps, cut and rotated 120 degrees will do just fine. You don't even need to make the cuts on 45 degrees. A packing gland with packing installed correctly with completely synthetic packing is a very reliable item that will no need attention except when you haul or dry out to bottom paint. Completely synthetic would mean no flax or wax in its makeup. GFO packing is one brand.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Be very careful...*



crwber said:


> try this:
> 
> " As regards the packing formula that's worked perfectly for me for years
> without any attention to it, it's a combination of short green sticks of a
> ...


Be very careful with the Drip-Less Moldable Packing!

The idea behind this green "moldable clay" is that it will make your traditional stuffing box dripless. To install it you insert the first ring of flax, then pack in the green clay like substance and insert the second ring making, in essence, a green stuff sandwich. While the idea of a dripless shaft seal is not new this stuff is really not the ideal way to go dripless! Not only is it very, very tough to remove with a pick, and replace, it also does NOT work as advertised. This stuff can plug the male end of the stuffing box with a thick black sediment, which can only be described as, remnants of the "syntef lubricant" and the "moldable clay". Thus essentially preventing ANY cooling or lubricating water from getting to the female nut. If left alone for a long enough period it could wind up ruining your prop shaft!









If you look closely, at the photo, you can see the black goo residue on the shaft caused by the "dripless" packing that was actually clogging my stuffing box. All traditional stuffing boxes require water for lubrication, including the Drip-Less Moldable Packing, and this "dripless" junk totally plugged the area between the shaft and the male end of the of the stuffing box as seen in the picture. Even with the female nut totally removed, with the boat in the water, I was getting, at best, 4 drips per minute with the nut off! Please do not use this stuff! Buyer be ware! My stuffing box actually got so hot, from the lack of water lubrication, that it started to smell and I burned my fingers, enough to blister them, when checking on it. Keep in mind this did not happen instantaneously and took about 60 hours of run time to accumulate enough Syntef/Clay gunk to clog my stuffing box! In my opinion this stuff is dangerous!


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## Kitt (Apr 9, 2010)

I know this is an old thread but -- it's still relevant. Here's a paste (from Packing Gland Replacement) on how to change the packing without hauling out: "...It is preferable to replace the packing material when your vessel is out of the water, but if you can no longer control the leakage and don't want to haul your boat out, you can stop the water from entering by putting Play-Doh or putty into some kitchen plastic wrap and rolling it into a cigar shape. Dive under the boat and jam the plastic plug around the shaft, forcing it up the shaft tube. This will slow the leakage while you replace the packing. Don't forget to remove the plastic plug, without water for lubrication the new packing material will burn up..."


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## klem (Oct 16, 2009)

Your stuffing box might be made for something other than 3 turns, some take 4 or another number. It isn't clear to me that the leak was from the packing although that is the most likely. Was the leak coming from between the shaft and the nut or somewhere else?

Repacking in the water as mentioned above is not a big deal. A well placed towel can stop most of the flow even with all of the packing removed. Just wrap it tightly around the shaft and push it aft pretty hard.


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## funjohnson (Aug 20, 2008)

I had an issue with my Gore packing not seating properly with just a hand tightening. After I wrenched it down a bit the leak stopped and temp stayed at 85 degrees the entire first trip of 4 hours. 

I had to remove the last wrap of Gore package and replace it while the boat was in the water. After removing the gland nut all the way, the flow of water was still very light. I was able to work slowly and properly without having to worry about the boat sinking. In the water worked great for me.


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

I saw a post here that someone used toilet ring wax like the silly putty idea.

I use the wax on several other items too.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

It seems to me that there are two issues flowing within this post.

First- Replacing the stuffing or packing material: This can easily be accomplished in the water and should never require any diving under the vessel. As others have said, a rag wrapped and tied to the shaft can reduce the flow to an acceptable trickle.








Pick out the old packing material....








and add the new stuff, diagonally cut in separate rings, as described in earlier posts...









Second: The only cases where risk is envolved without an ability to stop the inflow of water and a need for emergency repair is NOT in replacing the stuffing, but if the tube and encasement between the cutlass bearing and the packing nuts is damaged and leaking water. This tube itself, if not fully broken apart, could be wrapped and a leak minimized in order to return to a repair facility. Neither situation is likely to be best solved by diving overboard! Take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## oceanscapt (Aug 1, 2009)

I've never seen a new packing gland so that was a real treat. Both articles do a great job explaining what appears to be a potentially dangerous situation.

None of the article, however, mention the acrobatics to get to the stuffing box and changing the packing. The first time I did mine, on the hook, I was very conscious of the possibility of the water overwhelming the bilge pump but was relieved to see the pump keep up (and give the bilge a good rinse as well). I cleaned and added 2 pieces of flax so the flow of water was probably less than if I'd dug it all out.

I precut the flax, made sure the bilge pump worked and the batteries were topped off, and had an alternative plan in case I had a problem. 

Fortunately the biggest problems I had were physical: laying on top of a very uncomfortable 4-108, reaching out almost at arms length to reach the packing nuts, trying extra hard not to drop the wrenches into the bilge (string sure helped there), and not breaking that cast cheapo adjustable stuffing box wrench.

I didn't follow the recommendations for setting in the stuffing but did take it slow and made sure I had a drip when running and lived with a very slight drip when not motoring. Since I didn't have a shaft brake and sailed with the transmission in neutral, some rotation of the shaft was inevitable (but shaft locking is another long topic).


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

I am fortunate to have a couple feet of expose shaft in front of my stuffing box within just a few inches of my floorboard panel....








'just good fortune for me, 'take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## funjohnson (Aug 20, 2008)

BRINGING OLD THREAD BACK FROM THE DEAD!!!

In my last post, I said that I had to tighten the packing gland pretty tight to get the thing to stop dripping while just sitting. After doing that, the packing gland does not drip at all at any speed. I was worried about this so I used the infrared thermometer to check it's temp after it had been ran for an hour. It was 84 degrees... the same as the surrounding items in the engine bay.

If I have no increase of temp (maybe only a degree or two) does that mean I'm getting enough coolling and no friction or added wear to the prop shaft? 

By the way, I got the infrared thermometer at Home depot for just $29. It's a Ryobi and seems to work great!


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## Dumah (Feb 18, 2010)

As a ship repair specialist, (35 years) when I pack a stern gland I NEVER put a joint in the packing on the bottom. This will leak every time. When you cut the packing leave about an eighth inch gap on the ends, the material needs a place to expand into. Tight end to end fits also leak. I've found that staggering the joints at 120 degrees (approx) is most successful. This can be done at sea, but only as to adding packing, NOT replacing. It is not rocket science, merely take your time and make sure the cavity is completely empty before you start and ensure seating of each and every ring thereafter.
Hope this helps;
Dumah, 
Halifax, NS


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## roline (Apr 7, 2000)

*FLAX Packing replacement with GFO*

Just completed an in the water packing gland transplant. The old flax rings would squeak at low speed, always leaked at the dock and at speed. The packing could not be tightened further. When I backed of the nut and slid the packing nut down the shaft 2 rings fell out and the third did not need much coaxing to fall out. They were 3/16" flax and nothing else.... The new GFO 1/4" has been installed, two rings did a good job filling it, installed with the seam 180 apart. Tightened with a wrench until snug and then backed off and hand tightened only. Back nut secured. No leak at the dock, no leak underway and after an hour under way at 3,000 Rpm, also no issue in reverse,,,, just warm to touch. Back at the dock no leak. I used the plumbers toilet wax trick to keep from sinking the boat. It used very little and was easy to swipe out. I spent far more time planning and scheming than it did to do it. Just 1/2 hr job and an hour to test..
Whats the big deal on this job, the 1/4 " packing was a little tight going in but that was the toughest part..


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

roline said:


> Just completed an in the water packing gland transplant. The old flax rings would squeak at low speed, always leaked at the dock and at speed. The packing could not be tightened further. When I backed of the nut and slid the packing nut down the shaft 2 rings fell out and the third did not need much coaxing to fall out. They were 3/16" flax and nothing else.... The new GFO 1/4" has been installed, two rings did a good job filling it, installed with the seam 180 apart. Tightened with a wrench until snug and then backed off and hand tightened only. Back nut secured. No leak at the dock, no leak underway and after an hour under way at 3,000 Rpm, also no issue in reverse,,,, just warm to touch. Back at the dock no leak. I used the plumbers toilet wax trick to keep from sinking the boat. It used very little and was easy to swipe out. I spent far more time planning and scheming than it did to do it. Just 1/2 hr job and an hour to test..
> Whats the big deal on this job, the 1/4 " packing was a little tight going in but that was the toughest part..


Roline,

Regarding no-drips it is really intended as _*drips-less*_ not _*dripless*_. Don't worry you would not be the first to take the "marketing" claims as face value.

The quote below is from Buck Algonquin in response to a query about GFO packing that was out of spec size wise:



Buck Algonquin said:


> We have seen the variations in the packing sizes that you have described. 95% of my packing box questions revolve around the goretex graphite based packing. It is good packing. However, most people misinterpret the instructions and believe it is drip free.  All three materials (graphite, teflon, and flax) have there drawbacks.
> 
> Flax. low cost. temperarture tolerance minimum. abrasive. Does require water for cooling and lubrication.
> 
> ...


That information is striaght from the largest manufacturer of stuffing boxes in the US...Even GFO needs to be water lubricated. If it is staying warm to the touch now, you'll want to monitor it as it breaks in which can take many hours of run time. I have seen it warm to the touch for the first ten to fifteen hours with minimal drip then spike to over 200 degrees. I have also seen it get so hot that it "bit" and "grabbed" the shaft and began to spin inside the nut, with the shaft, thus destroying the packing.

There are a few on the net who don't feel a shaft spins fast enough to need to be water lubed with GFO but I guess a "slow" shaft speed depends on what you consider slow. Our prop shaft spins, at cruise RPM, is turning 19 revolutions per second or 1143 revolutions per minute and can get very hot without lubrication.

To put the speed into an odd perspective the tires on my SUV turn at 111 RPM at 70 MPH...

GFO behaves and breaks in very differently than a traditional packing does so monitor it carefully, and as the manufacturer says; _*"make a final adjustment to attain minimum leakage."*_ They are quite careful to not say adjust it until dry..

GFO is GREAT stuff but when the shaft is spinning you'll want some amount of water lubrication.

Nice job BTW, and now you know how easy it is to do this in-water..


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## rbyham (Dec 25, 2012)

Let me bring this thread back. The rubber sleeve/gland on my stuffing box is toast. Was leaking badly the other day. When I checked on it, I found a large tear in the rubber that appeared to have been compromised by leaking diesel fuel or some caustic cleaner in an overhead locker. Anyway, we did a temporary fix by cutting the ends off a plastic bottle and sleeving the rubber gland. A week later it is not leaking but I clearly want to install a new rubber sleeve (gland). Does anyone know were to order? Seems Buck Algonquin is the largest supplier of stuffing box materials but they do not sell the rubber glands separately. Anyone know where to order one? I dont really wish to order the whole stuff box as it appears to be fine. I just need the rubber gland portion...


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## capt jgwinks (Sep 24, 2013)

Or install a dripless seal next time you're hauled. Kind of pricey but they're repairable from inside the boat. The Lasdrop model (which I have on my boat) uses a rubber lip seal like an oil seal in an engine, and you put a backup one on the shaft on installation. When the original wears out, you take the two piece cover off, cut the old seal off, slide the new one in and put the cover back on. Mines been in the boat about 10 years now and has never leaked a drop.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Unless I missed it, no mention of the value of locking nut to prevent packing nut from adjusting itself with disastrous results or of using two wrenches to take the strain off the hose. Fyi. I still prefer flax and tallow


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## SVTatia (May 7, 2007)

rbyham said:


> ...Does anyone know were to order? Seems Buck Algonquin is the largest supplier of stuffing box materials but they do not sell the rubber glands separately. Anyone know where to order one? I dont really wish to order the whole stuff box as it appears to be fine. I just need the rubber gland portion...


Check Hamilton marine. Search for "packing" and scroll down the page:

hhttp://www.hamiltonmarine.com/


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

You should be able to locate a replacement hose without too much trouble. Make sure you have the correct ID and length. Give Defender customer service a call.


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