# Sabre 386 or Tartan 3700???



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hello again to you all:

Ok, I am down to the nitty gritty. I am looking at the puchase of either a 2005 Tartan 3700 or a 2005 Sabre 386.

Again, I am looking to do some coastal cruising the next couple of years, with family, 2 to 4 onboard. And then some blue water sailing to Bermuda, and Atlantic Circle with 2 to 3 people on board.

I would like to hear from those of you that have sailed and (or) owned either of these boats. I know the Sabre 386 is new this year, so let me hear from those that have sailed other sabres 38''s or 36''s as well.

What do you think as far as: Which boat is better built? which boat has better performance? Which will hold up better over time? Which would be better for blue water sailing? Which would be better for coastal cruising? Which has better resale value?
(I am located in New England).

Please let me hear from you all, tell me the good as well as the bad about both these boats.


Thanks, ~~~


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Dreamer-
I know well a Sabre 362 and have nothing ill to comment. She can race (phrf). She can cruise (luxuriously, thank you). Tartans are an interesting equivelant. Have not raced a 3700, but handicaps probably levelize. I have viewed a 386, but prefer the 362. Blondes or brunettes, your choice.


----------



## mgiguere (May 22, 2004)

Considering your off shore goals, you should consider the Crealock 37...more ruggedly built than either of the two comparable choices you are looking at. It''s also a cutter rig which would be a substantial advantage. Put a Doyle stack pack main on it with extra roach (like I just did on my old Apache 37) and your set. What a huge difference it made.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

bluewaterdreamer,
We are on a similiar track, though maybe not looking for a brand new model. We are looking for the perfect 38 to 43 footer, Sabre, Tartan, Bristol, Crealock, (and a bunch of lesser knowns)etc. 
Now I''m wondering that maybe I should be looking at something more modern and possibly less robust but quicker.
I''m noticing that even with the Bristols when you get to the 38.8 it''s a beautiful boat but only just bigger than the 35.5, without any difference in living quarters. I find once you get to something like a 43 footer you start to get aft cabins, etc. 
I just don''t know. Maybe I should just get a Columbia 26, stick her on my mooring, then rent vacation properties for our fun time, summer time off. John Gov.


----------



## doubleplay (Nov 9, 2001)

You can also look at Dehler 41 CR at the same or even at a slightly lower price range.
Great Boats....I own one Dehler 36 could not be more happier.
Good Luck


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I can only say join the Sailnet mail groups for these boats. I know the Tartan group is a bastion of info on these boats. as I own an older Tartan. on another note, the Tartan 3700 is my dream boat.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hello again:

Is there anyone out there, that has owned anyone of these boats that can tell me the good as well as the bad, with regard to the baot, dealers and factory.

Thanks again, ~~


----------



## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

If you haven''t already, follow Heruka''s advice and join the Tartan and Sabre email discussion lists. Post this same question on both lists. You have a much better chance of finding owners of these specific models that way. To join the email lists, look to the left for a button labeled Email Discussion Lists and follow the instructions.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Not even a close call, Sabre 386 all the way,I also live in new england and bought a new Tartan 3500 last year and love it, but the 3700 is not as fast as the 386, and some problems with prop shaft alignment causing vibrations, check the tone website. the epoxy hull is the best but if possible go with a 4100, great boat!if that size and price is your range then go for sabre 386 still having issues with dealer in LI and factory on warranty items. hope sabre is better, then the 386 may be my next boat.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I looked at the Tartan 3700 and the Sabre 402 a few years ago when I was looking for a new boat. The are both reasonably good boats but I think the Sabre is a substantially better built boat. The joinerwork and fit and finish of the Sabre far exceeds the Tartan in my opinion. I think this also shows up in resale value. My experience was also that Sabres were somewhat more expensive than Tartans once you add up ALL the costs. I''d be surprised if the Sabre doesn''t end up at least 15-20% more than the Tartan. In any event, you can''t go too far wrong with either boat. I think they are more similar than they are different and personal preference/aesthetics will probably be the deciding factor. Good Luck.


----------



## halyardz (Sep 2, 2000)

When you do head to the Sabre and Tartan lists, you might take into account, as with any such list, there are a group of fans. After all, they bought that brand. Both seem to hold value quite nicely.


----------



## Bluesmoods (Jul 8, 2001)

The Sabre is a better built boat than the Tartan. Another important consideration is that the Current boat lines built by Fairport Yachts (C&C & Tartan) are not holding value in re-sale. That is the simple truth. 

Sabre to this day is built by the same company and is a true excellent quality very well thought-out sailing machine in many respects. 

The Tartan 3700 is a very nice looking boat, nice interior and a good sailing boat. If you are going to spend just under $300,000 for a boat, Sabre is where you will be better off. Fairport Yachts is a company I would stay away from as well. 

Have you seen the new 434 built by Elan???


----------



## Sludgemaster (Oct 16, 2004)

I hope this is not too late, but their is no comparison. Buy the Sabre. Stay away from any Tartan built by Fairport Yachts. Construction is pathetic. They also bought the C & C name and lawsuits over those boats abound.


----------



## max-on (Mar 30, 2004)

Can you explain in more detail what the problems are with the C&C boats.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

In January 2004, I spent two days at the Tartan/C&C plant observing/studying their production methods. With a background in manufacturing and being certified in 
Production Management by APICS (and having visited other quality yacht manufacturers like Island Packet and Caliber), I was greatly impressed with the design, equipment selection, attention to detail, and workmanship of the Tartans, from the wetting-out of the fiberglass and vacuum-bagging of the hull to the care with which plumbing, electrical, and woodworking was done, to the final cleanup. The biggest problem I saw was that batteries for one boat weren''t delivered on time and the workers had to skip-over their installation until they arrived (and there was one boat where a small section of teak belowdecks needed touching-up). I saw several instances where last-minute changes by buyers were accommodated, even to the effect of causing production schedule changes, and had a chance to talk to many workers who clearly take pride in their work and took great pains to show me and explain how they performed their jobs. Several of the workers have over 25 years'' experience in cabinetmaking, and it shows.

This isn''t meant as a personal attack but before I''d accept what Bluesmood and Sludgemaster had to say, I''d like to see some specifics from them, rather than blanket statements. Of course, Sludgemaster is entitled to his/her opinion, but the "pathetic" statement borders on hysterics and certainly isn''t objective or substantiated, from what what I saw. What constitutes "pathetic" -- the use of epoxy resin with a 15-year warrantee, vacuum-bagged hulls, the use of carbon fiber masts, lack of chopped mat fiberglass that adds weight with little strength (Sabre 386 uses it to prevent print-through, since they don''t use epoxy resin)? I didn''t see any evidence of construction that I personally wouldn''t be satisfied with, so I''d like to know how Bluesmoods can substantiate that Sabre is better-built. The same goes for the claim that Tartans aren''t holding their resale value. Give examples with facts about the boats (equipment, condition, etc.)

And what about the claimed lawsuits? How many are there, and what are they about? How are they being addressed (another aspect of a quality manufacturer is after-the-sale service)? Is such strong negativism based on personal experience or hearsay? I''d really like to know. Merely flinging accusations about isn''t informative or constructive.

I''ve had my 1997 Catalina 34 Mk II for eight years, and hope to buy a Tartan 3700 or 4100 in the not-too-distant future. I have a friend who owned a Sabre 34 that I admired for its quality and sailing characteristics. Yet, having seen the Tartan operation for myself (and having another friend who loves his 2000 Tartan 3500), I have no doubts about their quality or intrinsic value, and wouldn''t hesitate to take one anywhere.

I saw the 386 at last year''s Chicago Boat Show; it was very impressive, but didn''t match the Tartan (and certainly didn''t excite me the way that the 3700 did). For some reason, I could envision myself sailing the Tartan with a pride of ownership that was somehow lacking with the 386.

My local dealer told me that I''d have to wait several months for a new 3700 or 4100; there must be a reason.

If you''d like to chat, call me at 925-683-3997.

regards,
Jon Arck

P.S. Fairport Yachts IS Tartan Yachts; they changed their name when they acquired C&C.


----------



## Denr (Feb 7, 2001)

I don''t think you can go wrong with either vessel, I''ve been to the Sabre plant and noticed the same level of detail and workmanship pride that Jon witnessed in Ohio. That said all of the workmanship in the world isn’t worth a hill of beans unless you have a well designed, well thought out product to begin with, see Benehuntalinas…NOT. If you''re going to choose a colored hull you should know that the two companies approach this option from different headings: Tartan paints theirs, Sabres are gelcoat. The gelcoat finish may not last as long as the painted hull and will require more maintenance but, it’s a lot more resistant to abrasion from fenders, lines and close encounters with unmovable objects such as pilings.

For the record, I like Moosetracks ice cream!


----------



## Bluesmoods (Jul 8, 2001)

I do not want to nor will I use this as a forum to "bad mouth boats" or manufactures''. All I can say is do your homework.. Many C&C and Tartan Yachts have been delivered with problems. Are C&C and Tartan Yachts nice boats?. . . Yes, of course they are .. If deciding between a Sabre and a Tartan.. My recommendation is Sabre. Simple as that. 

I am in the technical side of the business, I have extensive experience with both Sabre, Tartan and IP.


----------



## max-on (Mar 30, 2004)

Bluesmoods, as you are in the "technical side of the business", can you elaborate what the "problems" are with the Tartan and C&C Boats. A "good v. bad" discussion adds little to my view of these yachts. What are the specific problems? 

As for problems with production, is your comment based on experience with one boat, or is there a problem(s) with every boat coming off the line?

I am sure the readers also would lke to hear from Tartan, C&C, and Sabre owners regarding their purchase and experience with their boat.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I''ll second Tweetybd. I am surprised at the negative, non-specific generalizations toward the Tartans with no facts presented to substantiate the serious innuendos. We researched the market for the past three years. My choices came down to the Sabre 386 or the Tartan 3700. (for my wife, there was no doubt what she preferred.) I sailed on my friend''s Sabre 362 several times last summer and thought it was a great boat. It has held up very well for ten years of hard use. For us the choice was easy. After careful scrutiny of both boats, we placed an order for a 3700 in September. Larry Venezia


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Larry,

Where are you located, and how can I contact you directly?

Jon Arck
[email protected]


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well I did it, I ordered a Brand new 2005 Tartan 4100. Boat should be complete by December/January.

I looked at the Sabre 386 and 426, at the end of the day I liked the setup, and layout of the 4100 better. I also like the higher tech build of the Tartan. I have been to the factory, several times, and they have been great to work with so far.

Let me hear from those of you that have sailed and or own this boat.

Thanks, ~~~


----------



## DuaneIsing (Jul 10, 2001)

Congrats, bluewaterdreamer! You should really enjoy your boat.

Duane


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Bluewaterdreamer,

I second Duane -- congratulations!

Tell us about the setup (options, changes, etc.), and please keep us appraised of the progress of your boat. When is the planned delivery date, and will it be shown at any boat shows?

Where will she be berthed, and will you be needing crew?

Jon


----------



## max-on (Mar 30, 2004)

Congrats Bluewaterdreamer. Please keep us updated on the production. Also, how did you set-up the boat and what options did you choose. 

Where have the naysayers gone?


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Yes, bluewaterdreamer, you''ve gone and chose the red-head. Your initial post of 9/3 did not introduce this prospect, but my guess is that all here compliment your taste hope to share your enjoyment. Whether you put those Tartan rumors to bed or not, SWEET DREAMS.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I have also witnessed very poor factory service and some real sloppy craftsmanship on the C&C boats. They are very pricey to justify this... Two new C&C boats are in my marina now and both owners have had some quality issues. They are great boats and after all the issues are settled, I think they will be happy or they seem to be leaning that way anyway. 

I am also leary of Fairport Yachts as Cape Yachts droped their product line as did Hellier. Both are outstanding reputable dealers. Fairport seems to be going with all company owned dealerships. Why does Freedom Yachts ring a bell? 

I am real interested in the Saga built in Canada. I would love some information on these boats from dealers, owners or anyone who might have the scoop on that company and boat. 

Steve S.


----------



## max-on (Mar 30, 2004)

Columnist, can you be more specific with what the poor quality items are?


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I tool delivery of a new Tartan 3700 this past summer after extensive comparative ivestigation with the the Sabre 386 and the Jenneaus and Jboats. I wanted a high quality, high performance cruiser. So it came down to the Tartan and Sabre pretty quickly based on quality, accommodation plan and performance. Both are very good boats. The quality of the joinery was about the same. So were the accommodation plans; about the same volume, with the tartan having a bit better layout.
But the Tartan 3700 is just a far better engineered boat; the strength/weight ratio of the hull and deck laminates, and the carbon fiber mast made it easily the best choice. I visited both factories. The difference is that Tartan uses an epoxy resin system and a synthetic coring called Core cell, both of which are very expensive, but yield far greater strength and osmotic resistance in the hull laminate. The carbon mast is about 50% lighter with greater strength and stiffness than the metal ones used on the sabre.
But it all comes down to what you like; I liked the Tartan. It was an easy decision once the time was spent to look.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well, Now that spring is right around the corner, I am looking forward to sailing my new Tartan 4100. Any other New Tartan owners out there getting ready to commision their Boats, Let me know if you are getting close to "Splash Down"


----------



## Denr (Feb 7, 2001)

Sorry bluewaterscreamer, everyone else bought the Sabre and went with the North sail package!


----------



## sather (Feb 7, 2004)

Well, after looking at way too many boats for a year and half I put a deposit on the a new Tartan 3400 a couple of weeks ago. My first boat! August delivery. I think the Sabres may be a step up but their entry level boat is a lot more expensive than Tartan.

Never wanted summer to get here so bad. We will be sailing the San Juans out of Anacortes. They havn''t built one yet - I sure hope it is as good as it looks on paper.

[email protected]


----------



## windship (May 4, 2002)

Somebody correct me if I''m wrong but don''t Sabre''s have a built interior and don''t Tarten''s have an interior consisting of molded fiberglass liners? Don''t Tarten''s also have those drop-in teak and holly sole''s that don''t cover the whole floor? What is the price difference?

Dennis


----------

