# RYA yachtmaster vs USCG license Captain vs ICC



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

To open more opportunities, getting endorsement has become an important step to sail on OPB. 

RYA wants sea miles but USCG wants days on the boat. It seems that RYA is a way to go at least for my case. But I have to fly to UK or AU to get the practical exam for Yachtmaster Ocean or off-shore. OK, it may be a good excuse to fly to UK for a week. . ICC comes automatically when you have the RYA Yachtmaster certificate. 

Anyone know more about these things?


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

If you ever want to carry passengers in the US for hire. A USCG licence is the only one recognized.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

I got my 50ton ticket...but never officially used it...jaja in ft.lauderdale at a well respected school

dont you have to be a uk citizen to get their version...likewise with other countries that offer?


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

bubb2 said:


> If you ever want to carry passengers in the US for hire. A USCG licence is the only one recognized.


Yes, agree.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

christian.hess said:


> I got my 50ton ticket...but never officially used it...jaja in ft.lauderdale at a well respected school
> 
> dont you have to be a uk citizen to get their version...likewise with other countries that offer?


You don't need to be a UK or AU citizen. With ICC around, RYA becomes more acceptable outside the U.S. water.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

cool I would go for rya then and I agree outside the us the uscg "ticket" is not very well respected or admired...

I think its very useful if you plan to charter and or carry passengers for hire again in us waters...

outside it simply depends on what country you are doing it in

also I got a bunch of ISAF certifications when I was training down here and those I hear are well respected worldwide...

pick your poison then!

good luck


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

dawg, you a citizen of the Federal Republic?

OK, then you go for the USCG certification.

You a Brit? Then you look up the RYA.

If life changes and you decide you want to sail in what's left of the Empire, by all means, go for the RYA as well. But first, try out for the home team.


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## wikiwiki (May 11, 2014)

USCG 100 ton is not much - in fact it tends to create suspicion that person has no idea

The Yachtmaster ( if it is the one I am thinking about ) is a serious bit of tea. People who have earned know a lot


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

I hold a 100 ton license, and have no real familiarity with the RYA Yachtmaster requirements. So is is from general knowledge, not a deep understanding of the testing regime. 

The USCG license requires 720 sea days, which typically requires quite a lot of sea time, and requires at least two years to qualify for. The flip side is any time on a boat qualifies, and there is no practical test. So the license itself makes no statement about someone's skill.

The RYA license however only requires 50 hours of sea time, so it's possible but not likely to get in a week. However the RYA license also requires a practical exam, so there is at least some guarantee of skill.

Which do I think of as being more impressive? Meh, I don't think much of either by themselves. Like most commercial companies and insurance companies I put a lot more stock in someone's resume than the license they have. At least when discussing entry level licenses like this.


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## wikiwiki (May 11, 2014)

Thanks for the clarification - the Yachtmaster I was thinking has a few hundred hours of practical requirements plus a minimum of a 2,000 mile blue water passage


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Coast_Guard_Charter_Boat_Captain's_license


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> dawg, you a citizen of the Federal Republic?
> 
> OK, then you go for the USCG certification.
> 
> ...


HS, it is not because I don't want to get my 100 T USGC license. Getting the day counts on a boat is tough for me unless USCG will give me the credits sailing my Catalina 14.2. Just because someone lives on the boat for years, or someone works on a ship in the kitchen, they get more days than me. but I don't think they have more experience than me sailing the boat. I have met many 100T captains, I was not impressed to say the least.

Here is my thinking: I have more than 10,000 off shore miles, and it will qualify me for the RYA yachtmaster certificate. Although I need to pass two written exams and one practical exam on a vessel. Studying and taking exams are never a problem for me. Therefore, until I get my CG license, RYA certificate will provide me a temporary solution if my client wants credential now.

RYA certificate and ICC are accepted outside U.S, especially in China.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

wikiwiki said:


> Thanks for the clarification - the Yachtmaster I was thinking has a few hundred hours of practical requirements plus a minimum of a 2,000 mile blue water passage


Yachtmaster? Offshore | Exams | Learning | Courses & Training | RYA


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## neilsty (Oct 15, 2009)

Can't you get the rya qualifications in some of the British islands in the Caribbean? Antigua or st Lucia?.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

No, I checked. There are RYA certified yachtmasters in there, but no qualified examiner there except in UK and AU.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

I think in order to get a yachtmaster you have to be a citizen or resident of the UK or one of the commonwealths.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

rockDAWG said:


> But I have to fly to UK or AU to get the practical exam for Yachtmaster Ocean or off-shore.


There is a company in Florida ( International Crew Training ) that lets you sit for Yachtmaster. You can even do their prep classes for USCG licenses and Yachtmaster at the same time.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I know plenty of people with USCG six-pack licenses that don't even know how to properly tie a boat to a slip. No doubt people often fake their way to that one. While I've heard of unimpressive 100T masters and recognize their would be a wide spectrum, of all that I know, they are each good seaman. It should not be discredited broadly.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

If you are eligible to take the test I would seriously consider taking an on the water prep course because their is a definite RYA method of doing things.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

rockDAWG said:


> No, I checked. There are RYA certified yachtmasters in there, but no qualified examiner there except in UK and AU.


The sailing school at English Harbour does the course and the examination for Yachtmaster offshore. I signed up for it, but then couldn't take part due to timing issues.

Internationally, the Yachtmaster ticket is pretty much the only one recognized so if you plan on doing work outside of the USA then that is the way to go. Note, too, that the mileage requirements are in tidal waters.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

interesting I saw on some of the pre requisistes of the rya that you should be able to do basic sun sights and basic celestial nav...and a test with no electronic devices, so basically dead reckoning and compass sighting, triangulation etc...

thats a big difference, not to mention that fact that there IS a practical exam...

I would go for the rya, but it sounds like you WILL have to do a lot of studying and testing physically in order to do it their way

my advice would be to talk to fellow delivery skippers and crew who might have the rya ticket and see if you can take it...

good luck!


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

rockdawg check this out

How to get your International Certificate of Competence - ICC | BOSS Sailing School Blog

when you get your rya you should automatically get or apply for the ICC certificate...

also look towards the end where its says experienced skippers that can provide their on boat CAN do some courses and fresheners in order to directly apply for an ICC ticket without going through the lower courses

at least thats what I understood...

interesting none the less when you see so much that is required for eu citizens to simply rent or charter a boat...


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

> Note, too, that the mileage requirements are in tidal waters.


No, just 1/2 of the mileage.



> interesting I saw on some of the pre requisistes of the rya that you should be able to do basic sun sights and basic celestial nav


Not for the yachtmaster offshore though you need it before getting the yacht master ocean (you might be able to do both at the same time). The yachtmaster ocean requires a 600nm voyage using celestial naviagation. The test is then taken after. I think it is both oral and written.


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

It really depends on what you intend to do. Charter captain, or you're getting paid to take/teach students on a sailboat with an engine? Then you need the Coast Guard license, with an endorsement for auxiliary sail if you go higher than the 6-pack. "Inspected vessel" (meaning it has a Coast Guard Certificate of inspection and can take more than 6 pax)? You need the CG license, with enough tonnage to cover what you're skippering.

Deliveries, or passengers but not "for hire"? Then it's up to whoever is hiring you as to what kind of ticket they want you to have.

I'm not that familiar with the British setup. In the US there's ASA and USSA, but they are private agencies and their cards have no "official" standing, though unofficially they may give you some credibility at a sailing school, or at a charter company who might otherwise put a captain on board for the first half-day to check you out, and might get you a discount on insurance.


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## Night_Sailor (May 27, 2012)

wikiwiki said:


> USCG 100 ton is not much - in fact it tends to create suspicion that person has no idea
> 
> The Yachtmaster ( if it is the one I am thinking about ) is a serious bit of tea. People who have earned know a lot


I have both certifications. There are inexperienced USCG Captains--the ones I've met tend to be older cocky men who test well know it all's that don't know jack. There are also mAny very young YachtMasters. Many of these studied well and tested well but again lack experience. A couple of example. A nice Dutch fellow whose goal was to crew on a mega yacht...which he has been doing off and on for six years now. He would have been better off buying a boat and sailing alone IMHO. I would not hire him. Another was a young gal who passed l her exams and was paying big bucks for sea time under an experienced Captain. I would not hire her, but give her more sea mikes and ocean days and I might.

Neither of these certification matter compared to real world experience. I can step on a boat and I observe. 10 minutes makes it obvious who is good and who is dangerous or somewhere in between.

As for the certifications themselves, I would recommend getting both. If you want to work and industry you need your RYA Yacht Master "Commercially Endorsed". CE means you've had an evaluation by and approved Marine physician. I don't remember I think you might have to have drug testing of some sort.

As for the actual courses I have done them all. ASA, USSailing, RYA and US Navy. I was most impressed with the RYA program. US Sailing is a joke--they constantly talk about how great they are instead of trying to improve and it is a political laughing stock IMHO. The US Coast Guard license doesn't require a course, but there are plenty of certification classes you can take, and these just teach you how to pass the course and it is the most difficult. Taking a prep course makes it easier. US Coast Guard exam has some tricky parts to it,. The set and drift calculations are bizarre to put it mildly. You have to learn how to approximate the answers, because the Coast Guard uses some sort of calculated means to determine the answer which is nowhere close to reality.

If anyone has any more specific questions about these programs feel free to ring me up.

Capt Conrad
Home - Connecticut Captain


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

The ICC is not a commercial ticket. It allows the operation of pleasure craft.

It may be required in some countries like Croatia.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

ScottUK said:


> I think in order to get a yachtmaster you have to be a citizen or resident of the UK or one of the commonwealths.


Not true. RYA official just informed me that your don't need to be a British subject to be a member or a YachtMaster.

It does make sense to me. RYA is not a government agency. It is a private Association.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

SVAuspicious said:


> There is a company in Florida ( International Crew Training ) that lets you sit for Yachtmaster. You can even do their prep classes for USCG licenses and Yachtmaster at the same time.


Good to know. Thanks.


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## Night_Sailor (May 27, 2012)

The RYA is a private organization. Until you add the Commercial Endorsement (CE) after it.

I am not from the UK and I have one. It means something outside of the US and is helpful for getting work.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

I am taking a risk with this, WTH.

RockDawg and others might get some better answers over at CF. I know that there you find instructors and others with RYA, USCG, IYT and other commercial tickets. I do not think that there are many RYA folks on SN.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

jackdale said:


> I am taking a risk with this, WTH.
> 
> RockDawg and others might get some better answers over at CF. I know that there you find instructors and others with RYA, USCG, IYT and other commercial tickets. I do not think that there are many RYA folks on SN.


Taking a risk? Taking a risk is allowing a wombat that isn't litter trained into your house.

If the answer to a question is found within another forum, we're certainly not going to discourage visiting it. We'll lengthen your leash just enough so you can ask your question just inside the door and then snap it back when you're done is all.

Seriously. The important thing is that someone gets an answer to his or her question. We aren't behind an impenetrable wall.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

DRFerron said:


> Taking a risk? Taking a risk is allowing a wombat that isn't litter trained into your house.


Oi ... I resemble that remark. 

Ok, but I second the other bit. Cross referencing to e.g. CF is in no way taking a risk.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Speak for yourselves. I see the CF colors in my hood and we're going to rumble.


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

We have both the USGG Master's License (My wife) and the RYA Yachtmaster Offshore and Ocean (Me) on our boat.

The USCG license is an excellent theory exam requiring documentation of 720 days at sea but no evidence of the ability to tie up a boat.

The Yacht Master Offshore requires less theory, less sea time but the practical test is very exacting with difficult practical tests to be done, day and night, in any weather.

_'50 days, 2,500 miles including at least 5 passages over 60 miles measured along the rhumb line from the port of departure to the destination, acting as skipper for at least two of these passages and including two which have involved overnight passages. 5 days experience as skipper. At least half this mileage and passages must be in tidal waters. All qualifying seatime must be within 10 years prior to the exam.'_

Yachtmaster Ocean requires a 600 nm offshore passage with use of sextant, the trip must be at least 4 days in length. It is then followed by a 2-3 hour oral exam taken a few weeks later where you present your celestial navigation notes and work sheets followed by an hour of questions to show a detailed knowledge of ocean passages in all weathers.

The easiest way to pass the Yachtmaster exam is to take a one week theory course (The Solent based schools are excellent) followed by the 5 day practical course (4 trainees per boat) followed immediately by the on water exam. It is a waste of time taking it in non-tidal locations because you only get certified for non-tidal waters.

The practical would then be taken on a school boat with the 3 other candidates that you had been practicing with all week.

While that may seem expensive and redundant the practical consists of elements that you would never practice in 10,000 miles at sea. Picking up a mooring ball under sail in a 3 knot current in 30 knots of wind being an example of what one candidate on my exam had to perform. Wind was into current which was the stronger force so the approach had to been done downwind under jib and boat speed was controlled by progressively reefing the jib. However, the most common reason for failing is trying to command the boat from the chart table rather than with your eyes.

The lesser mileage requirements quoted are for Yachtmaster Coastal which is a 6 pack equivalent and not worth taking.

In the US you must have the CG license for paying customers but worldwide the YachtMaster has a lot more credibility especially with Lloyds based insurance companies.

Once you have passed the exam you then need to sail about 20,000 nm to get some real experience!

Phil


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Phil, 

For the Yachtmasters off-shore or Ocean certificate, are there ratings for non commercial and commercial endorsement?


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

DRFerron said:


> Taking a risk? Taking a risk is allowing a wombat that isn't litter trained into your house.
> 
> If the answer to a question is found within another forum, we're certainly not going to discourage visiting it. We'll lengthen your leash just enough so you can ask your question just inside the door and then snap it back when you're done is all.
> 
> Seriously. The important thing is that someone gets an answer to his or her question. We aren't behind an impenetrable wall.


Please do not come there the trash this thread. Your off topic post is not welcome here. Please do us favor, stop.

Thank you.


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

rockDAWG said:


> Phil,
> 
> For the Yachtmasters off-shore or Ocean certificate, are there ratings for non commercial and commercial endorsement?


Rock,

For the Yachtmaster certification to be used commercially/teaching in the UK you also must do a day each of: sea survival (liferaft practice in the pool), first aid and diesel mechanicing (bleed a diesel and change the filters) and take a medical in order to get the commercial endorsement,

However, to use outside European waters the insurance companies just need you to have the basic certificate. I once delivered a race boat from the US to the Islands that was insured by a UK company and all they wanted was to see my basic Yachtmaster certificate.

Phil


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Any "test" that involves hands-on demonstration has got to be better than a book test. Book tests are often passed by people who are good at....taking tests and memorizing irrelevant facts to be forgotten in 24 hours. All tests such as both of these do not and cannot measure the most important things like common sense, basic logic, years of experience in a multitude of skill sets, and basic manual ability. They are mostly designed by and for the schools making money. Never forget that schools are businesses first and foremost. I guess requirements for pieces of paper have some validity but not much. There is simply no way to test for the things that really matter. As Minnewaska has noted above, there are very many USCG "six pack" licensees who jump through the hoops but know very little about even the basics of handling a boat.


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

Legally the RYA (Royal Yachting Association) is a private organization but the UK Government delegated to the RYA the authority to issue commercial licenses. The RYA had the sailors that could examine the candidates and the Government did not...

A great example of privatization...

The course standards are very high with a strict auditing process and are given by both sailing schools and sailing clubs. All school and club boats used are inspected by the RYA on a regular basis.

The practical exams can be taken on school boats or a private boat and the private boat owner must provide a crew for the exam.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

> The easiest way to pass the Yachtmaster exam is to take a one week theory course


I wouldn't bother with the theory course to save money. But you do need to know the book used in the theory course from cover to cover. Again I would urge you to take the on the water prep course prior to the exam as Yorksailor has also advised if you go that route.


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## jslade8581 (Aug 3, 2009)

RockDawg,

Your stories about deliveries are awesome. Here's my two cents:
1. If you want to do international deliveries or get a Captain's job on a non US-flagged vessel, get the RYA Yacht Master. There's a ton of opportunities that open up then. I'm a proud American, serving in the US Navy, but I also know that many yachts aren't flagged to the US because of the law's requirements for US flagged vessels.

2. No matter what happens, get a USCG certificate as soon as possible, preferably the 100 GRT Master (but anything above OUPV). You'll need it to get higher upgrades, because to get above 100 GRT, you need to hold at least a lower-level Master's certificate to count additional sea time. You can count sea time in your own boat as long as you can prove ownership. In fact, you should start logging all of your sea time on the USCG forms! (You might be able to get your previous delivery captains to sign off the forms too.)

3. The other certification (not required for deliveries, normally, but crewing on yacht with passengers) is STCW.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

jslade8581 said:


> RockDawg,
> 
> Your stories about deliveries are awesome. Here's my two cents:
> 1. If you want to do international deliveries or get a Captain's job on a non US-flagged vessel, get the RYA Yacht Master. There's a ton of opportunities that open up then. * I'm a proud American, serving in the US Navy,* but I also know that many yachts aren't flagged to the US because of the law's requirements for US flagged vessels.
> ...


Thank you so much.

I am also a proud American too but by *Choice*not by birth. I always have a soft spot for the service men and women. Thank you for your service. :thumb-up" I came to this country at the tail end of Vietnam war, so I did not serve the military. Instead, I busted my balls to get ahead and paid lot of taxes to Uncle Sam eagerly. Now I become a real American, just wanted to pay as little as taxes possible. I need more tax loopholes. 

Just talked to my previous captain whom I have served in the past. It turned out that he is a RYA examiner and able to issue Yachtmaster certificate. He is also willing to guide me through this process. So I will get my RYA cert. after I complete my theory course on line.

Yes, I will get my STCW95 and USCG license too. I have lost a couple nice delivery gigs (water that I have not sailed in) because of insurance requirement.

Thanks again.


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## grantheadifen (Feb 17, 2009)

There are distinct differences depending on what you are wanting to do.

USCG is required by everyone in the USA operating commercially in Coast guard controlled waters in the USA. i.e if you accept money for passengers or for sailing training or fishing charters or deliveries etc etc then you must have a USCG 6pax license at least. It is a major hassle to get including an FBI check, a medical, a red cross course, by the time you get through it your cost is around $1500 to $2000. If you don't plan on receiving money for your recreation then it is not needed. The requirement for time is pure logbook stated time and there is no practical test. There is a reasonable significant theory course and test. Time to complete that is about 1 full week of time.

ICC is a certificate issued for recreation sailing in European waters. The ICC was created by the United Nations under Resolution 40. Most of the European countries signed the resolution. The USA and Canada did not. Each nation that signed the resolution designates a national education body to issue the ICC license to it's citizens. The RYA (Royal Yachting Association) in the UK is the designated body for the UK but IMPORTANTLY they are also allowed under the rules to issue ICC licenses to citizens of countries who did not sign the resolution. Thus Citizens of the USA, Canada, New Zealand and Australia etc can be issued an ICC via the RYA.

Thus to gain an ICC you can get it through the RYA unless your own country signed Res. 40. The RYA has thousands of schools worldwide through which you do the theory and practical training and testing. They also have shore based schools whereby you do the theory course and test online and then visit an RYA School for the practical training and test.

NauticEd.org is one such school to get your theory done online. (Disclaimer - I am the director of education for NauticEd)

The process of gaining the ICC is either/or. (1) if you are extremely proficient at all aspects of seamanship and navigation, tides, passage planning, rules of giveway etc, you can do a 1 day on the water assessment at an RYA school. The assessor will run you through the ringer. If you pass - you pass. If you fail - you fail. Our NauticEd RYA Day skipper course online will ensure that you pass the theory requirements like navigation and tides and passage planning, rules etc. After that it is really just to prove to the assessor that you are practically competent at managing the boat.
(2) You can do the RYA Day Skipper 5 day practical training along with the NauticEd RYA Day Skipper online theory course. Once you complete both of those you are automatically qualified for the ICC. Personally I think that is the best way to go. Who can complain about a 5 day venture on the water with a highly professional RYA instructor?

Yachtmaster is also an RYA rank. It is used in most parts of the world for operating commercially. NOT the USA.

Bottom line: If you're operating for recreation, then get the ICC. It is a world recognized recreation sailing license. Every Yacht charter company in the world recognizes the license. Even if the country did not sign the resolution 40, you can operate in their waters with the ICC. The caveat to that is that every yacht charter company in the world also requires a sailing resume of your total experience, the ICC is not enough and neither is any other sailing certification. You simply must have a resume. NauticEd offers a free resume building tool when you create a free account. And every yacht charter company in the world recognizes the NauticEd Resume format.

If you never plan on sailing in European waters and you're doing it recreationally, then it is up to the yacht charter company to decide based on your resume if they will let you take out their $500,000 boat. You build your resume by taking theory courses, logging your practical time and perhaps getting a sign off by a professional instructor (but it is not 100% necessary).

To be a prudent and safe sailor - don't just wing it, get professional theory and practical instruction. NauticEd and other organizations like the RYA, and US Sailing offer highly professional instruction.


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## Night_Sailor (May 27, 2012)

The ICC certificate? Useless IMHO.

If you are not taking people out for hire, it is pointless to be "certified" because even with certification, every charter company will insist on a checkout sail--without exception. Trust me I work in the industry. Anyone promoting certificates, is mostly interested in marketing their business. The ICC is one of the least valuable certifications. Choose RYA in Europe.

I don't to sound like I'm only putting down the ICC certificate, the USS or ASA "certificates" are equally useless, while the classes themselves are not--it's what you learn. The paper is worthless. None of these certificates will allow you to rent a sailboat until you prove you know how to sail. Without exception, no place will let you rent a boat without a check sail, certificate or not. 

But they do want to rent a boat to you. So, the key is to develop skills. They may insist you take a check sail. Some will flunk you when you are otherwise well qualified, just so you will take "their course" or a "refresher course". Courses do provide experience and improve skills in how they do things "their way"--every place is different. Courses which lead to certifications will certainly help to develop skills. The paper itself is worthless though, particularly if you don't retain when you learned or fail to practice on the water on a regular basis. No one will every ask to see your certificates. They will want you to do a "check sail"--every place you go to demonstrate your skills. 

So what is important? Developing skills. Forget about certificates focus on skills development. You can get those many ways: by racing as crew, taking courses from these organizations, or private instruction. You can read books and study everything you can on the topic. Then when you get out and practice this stuff, you get better and better. Unlike golf, sailing is a sport where you continue to improve with time.

Understand the certifications are a marketing tool for the schools so they can make money, and so they will have confidence you can take a boat out and bring it back in one piece at their location. They hand you this piece of paper, and you think you got something for your money. The reality is many people forget what they have learned, hence the check sail requirement. When you try to take this somewhere else--then you find it means nothing.

It is better to assemble a detailed "sailing resume" showing the number and type of boats you have sailed, the locations, charters you have done, boats you have owned, and the fatter this document is the better. Of course certifications will fatten up your CV; you still will be required to do a check sail. And you should get good and mad about that, because you have been sold a lie--that the certificate means you can avoid a check sail.

My recommendation. Keep track of every sail outing, with the time spent sailing, wind conditions, type of boat, registration number, and your position on the boat--skipper or crew. That information will come in handy later on if you decide to get a USCG license. Even if you don't, it will be something to prove your skills and worth more than any certification. If you want training. Choose a great instructor, not a school which will shove you in a boat with some kid, who knows how to sail, but not how to teach. 

If you want to take people out for hire, you need an USCG license, or RYA Yachtmaster. These are the two that are best known. The RYA has an option for CE (Commercially Endorsed), as I mentioned in an earlier post add some other requirements.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

Night_Sailor said:


> The ICC certificate? Useless IMHO.
> 
> If you are not taking people out for hire, it is pointless to be "certified" because even with certification, every charter company will insist on a checkout sail--without exception. Trust me I work in the industry..


Apparently the Moorings didn't receive the memo.

I've chartered 48 foot Catamarans from them on two occasions without a Check-out sail. 
I forwarded them a boating resume, a copy of my CG license, and ASA instructors log book. The First time.
The second time they just said "Welcome back"

I chartered a boat on Lake Tahoe once with 4 others after taking a 5 minute paper quiz. I was done with the quiz before they had the boat gassed up. No check-out. They did ask for a credit card though. ;-)

I own my own boat, so I don't charter much, but, I've never been asked for a check-out sail. There are folks here that charter regularly.

I agree with you that developing skills, building a resume and logging time is important. It's the " without-exception", "worthless paper" , and "sold you a lie" stuff that I find a bit "over-the-top".


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Night_Sailor said:


> The ICC certificate? Useless IMHO.
> 
> If you are not taking people out for hire, it is pointless to be "certified" because even with certification, every charter company will insist on a checkout sail--without exception. Trust me I work in the industry. Anyone promoting certificates, is mostly interested in marketing their business. The ICC is one of the least valuable certifications. Choose RYA in Europe.
> 
> .


The ICC or equivalent (there is a list equivalents, but I cannot locate it right now) is a requirement to charter in Croatia. I have also had folks inform me that they need it for some companies in Greece.

I have never be asked to do a checkout sail. All of my personal sailing is charter. I have never owned a boat.



> One final decider may be your qualifications. The authorities issue a list of recognised skippers certificates which includes the ICC, and RYA Day Skipper (and higher) practical qualifications. Rather bizarrely, it also includes the RYA Theory qualifications, so (in theory) you don't actually have to have ever been on a yacht! Don't expect the charter companies to fall for it though!
> 
> You must however have one of the recognised tickets - experience alone counts for nothing. The authorities do check and anyone found short risks having a skipper imposed (if available and at your cost), fines, or termination of your trip. If you find any charter agent or holiday company telling you it won't be a problem then beware; they're playing fast and loose with your holiday.


http://www.sailingchoices.com/sailing-areas/sailing-croatia/


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## grantheadifen (Feb 17, 2009)

So the real deal is (and we know) is that the charter company will require a resume prior. If the resume carries sufficient education and experience then they will qualify you at the time you are booking the boat.. At the base they will do a silent check out on you to make sure you are acting and asking the right questions about the boat. if you're asking dumb questions they might get into it a bit more with you and at that point it is possible they ask for a check out sail. Other than that most all charter companies DO NOT require a check out sail. Who ever stated that was incorrect.

In the Caribbean and Pacific and the US waters there is no requirement for a certification. In Europe you must have the ICC. Passing and gaining the RYA Day Skipper certificate is a guarantee for the ICC - it's just admin paperworkafter you get your RYA Day Skipper. You can also gain the ICC by going to an RYA school and doing an assessment. You had better know your stuff however.

Again the bottom line is that you must always have a well developed resume and if you are in Europe you must have an ICC.


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## grantheadifen (Feb 17, 2009)

One more thing to clarify the ICC. It is a United Nations created certificate under Resolution 40. It is the International Certificate of Competence. Signatory countries to UN Resolution 40 require recreational sailors to have it. It is NOT a "made up" certification from any entity. Only government appointed entities such as the Royal Yachting Association (RYA) are able to issue the ICC. RYA schools qualify students for the ICC under the RYA guidelines which are very stringent. Whoever says that the ICC is useless is incorrect. It is a requirement for all yacht charter companies operating in Res. 40 signatory country waters. View information about the ICC on wikipedia.


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## VallelyJ (Nov 21, 2008)

Try Discovery Sailing in Chester Basin, Nova Scotia:
Discovery Sailing | RYA Sail Training in Nova Scotia.
Dave DeWolfe is the owner/instructor and has RYA certification programs. I took a bareboat course from him a few years ago and would do it again in a minute. They seem to fill up early, though.


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## garethckelly (Dec 29, 2017)

Slightly off topic - I am curious why the US Captains license is only available to US Citizens? I assume there are many non US citizens working in the US as a captain? Am I correct that the way around this to get the RYA Yachtmaster and that will be sufficient here in the US? I am a UK citizen and would like to take people to the islands off my coast but as a non-US citizen, it appears I cannot get a US Captains license? That seems odd. I mean I have a class B commercial drivers license and I can legally buy a gun but I cant have a captains license?


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Absolutely the *only* reason to get a USCG certificate of competency (Master's certificate under 500 GRT) is if you want to work in US waters. It has absolutely no value in any other country in the world. As a matter of fact it is a joke in most countries and there is no country that I know of that reciprocates a USCG ticket under 500 GRT.
If you are *not* a US citizen, you can not operate a commercial vessel, of any sort, on a coastwise voyage in the US, period! The RYA ticket is not approved for operating any commercial vessel on US waters. However, if you want to operate a commercial vessel outside US waters, then the RYA ticket may help, though each country often requires their own ticket to operate a vessel within their waters.
That is not to say you may not enter US waters on a foreign certificate, if you hit only one port and then depart directly for another country. *All *personnel aboard any commercial vessel must have an STWC certificate. This includes charter boats and some yachts, if one is a paid or official member of the crew. However, enforcement is rather lax, though I have heard that the Bahamas do take this seriously.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm not sure why, perhaps it's because we already have more licensed Captains (for smaller vessels) than we have jobs for them. Many never wanted a job anyway, but I still think supply and demand are already out of whack.

That said, I thought a foreigner could get a Captain's license to operate a very small vessel, like a launch. It would make sense that one would need a working visa as well. Perhaps when you apply for the work visa and say you want to be a boat captain, our gubment realizes we don't need more.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> I'm not sure why, perhaps it's because we already have more licensed Captains (for smaller vessels) than we have jobs for them. Many never wanted a job anyway, but I still think supply and demand are already out of whack.
> 
> That said, I thought a foreigner could get a Captain's license to operate a very small vessel, like a launch. It would make sense that one would need a working visa as well. Perhaps when you apply for the work visa and say you want to be a boat captain, our gubment realizes we don't need more.


I believe it is tied to the Jones act, to protect the American commercial shipping industry, back when we had one, and the sailors who manned the ships.
It was also quite a process to document a foreign built vessel in the US. Last time I tried, 51% of her equipment had to be American made. Since almost nothing is American made any more, perhaps those rules have eased up some.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Yes relating to the Jones Act. I worked for a US Charter company and it worked both ways. Even though all were employed by the same company the Canadian skippers couldn't work on the US vessels and the American Skippers couldn't work on the Canadian vessels. We have the same thing around these parts except up here its called the Coasting Trade Act. I believe it was intended to prevent foreign vessels trading within each country, protect domestic jobs and trade. 

I believe it is correct that a foreigner can operate a zodiac or something under 5 tons, which doesn't even cover the typical recreational cruising sailboat.

RYA licence is recognised in much of the world, but not in North America.

Even an STCW licence wont allow foreigners to operate North American vessels as far as I know.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Interesting stuff. A good friend's son is US Captain license holder, unlimited tonnage First Mate, on a ship overseas. Up for Captain when the position opens up. He flies back and forth from the US, 28 days on and 28 off. I think the vessel is flagged in Europe somewhere and it's owned by a foreign country too. At best, the company is on contract to Shell Oil, but I'm not even sure that's US. How does that happen then?


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Arcb said:


> Even an STCW licence wont allow foreigners to operate North American vessels as far as I know (I have one and I am not allowed to work on US flagged vessels).


STCW is a standards certificate for watchkeeping, not a license or permit to operate any vessel. I haven't operated any commercial cargo vessels or cruise ships since it was instituted so I have no idea there (probably only deck personnel), but from what I've heard, all yacht crew including the stews and cooks must have one.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Your friends son likely has an STCW license. STCW Unlimited tonnage first mate is a very good licence and would be much in demand. You have Canadians and Americans working on their STCW licenses all over the world, but we don't reciprocate (as far as I know). You will notice that a lot of North American ships trading outside of North America will have flags of convenience. This is for a lot of reasons, but one of those reasons is to make them easier to crew. Liberia, Panama, etc.

At least this is how I understand the situation


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Interesting stuff. A good friend's son is US Captain license holder, unlimited tonnage First Mate, on a ship overseas. Up for Captain when the position opens up. He flies back and forth from the US, 28 days on and 28 off. I think the vessel is flagged in Europe somewhere and it's owned by a foreign country too. At best, the company is on contract to Shell Oil, but I'm not even sure that's US. How does that happen then?


At 500 GRT things change dramatically. The ticket is no longer a 'give away' piece of paper (sorry, little red book) available to anyone with the money to take a "pass the test" course. Even my 200GRT was a bit more difficult, though I did pass the upgrade w/o a course, so it couldn't have been all that hard.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

capta said:


> STCW is a standards certificate for watchkeeping, not a license or permit to operate any vessel. I haven't operated any commercial cargo vessels or cruise ships since it was instituted so I have no idea there (probably only deck personnel), but from what I've heard, all yacht crew including the stews and cooks must have one.


Yes, STCW is the Standards for the Training and Certification of Watchkeepers. Both deck and engine room.

It is not a single licence, but standards for licencing.

So for example if I have an STCW unlimited tonnage 2nd mates licence, the standards should in theory guarantee that I have the same knowledge as a second mate from any other STCW compliant country, whether that be the US, Russia, India, Australia, China etc. We all take the same series of exams and do the same courses. This guarantees ship owners know what they are getting regardless of where they hire from. I could go work with Minnewaskas friends son and he would know exactly what standards I had met to get that licence, because he would have met the exact same standards (when he was a second mate).

This is different from if I held a domestic 500 ton domestic Masters licence, which is only valid on domestic vessels so doesn't necessarily need to be STCW compliant, because I couldnt use it on foreign vessels.

The STCW certification you are referring to for cooks etc on yachts is likely STCW compliant marine fire fighting and life boat training, which are also pre requisites for the higher licenses, both deck and engine room.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Since I was grandfathered in, I've not had to take the course, but my understanding is that it is for anyone aboard a vessel who may stand a watch, not necessarily licensed personnel. I believe it's about watchkeeping, not operations.
Perhaps it would help the US Navy personnel to take the course and get the certificate. They do not seem to have very good standards of watchkeeping.
In that line of thought, maybe somebody with a Navy background can answer a question. Are the captains of US Navy vessels even licensed, or do they just come up through promotion and are expected to be competent?
I believe even USCG personnel must take the USCG exam when they leave the service, if they want to continue to operate vessels professionally, and had no license to operate a vessel, even if they were commanding a CG cutter of any size.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

The problem with the navy boils down to sleep. It's all very well having people on watch, but if they've slept for less than 2 hours a night for a month, they aren't going to notice anything. They might be sleeping with their eyes wide open. Even worse, they tend to hallucinate things that aren't there.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> I'm not sure why, perhaps it's because we already have more licensed Captains (for smaller vessels) than we have jobs for them. Many never wanted a job anyway, but I still think supply and demand are already out of whack.
> 
> That said, I thought a foreigner could get a Captain's license to operate a very small vessel, like a launch. It would make sense that one would need a working visa as well. Perhaps when you apply for the work visa and say you want to be a boat captain, our gubment realizes we don't need more.


Unless it has changed, you are correct. As a Canadian citizen I had an OUPV (6-pack) about 25 yrs ago. Never bothered to renew it. I got it because I thought it would give me some legitimacy doing deliveries in US waters but nobody seemed to care. My Transport Canada Masters tickets have been accepted by virtually all underwriters in North America and Lloyds.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

MarkSF said:


> The problem with the navy boils down to sleep. It's all very well having people on watch, but if they've slept for less than 2 hours a night for a month, they aren't going to notice anything. They might be sleeping with their eyes wide open. Even worse, they tend to hallucinate things that aren't there.


I'm sorry, but I really disagree with this statement entirely. Most military vessels have 4 to 10+ times the crew of an equal size civilian vessel, even if they are not warships. They have redundant personnel for every job aboard and if the crews are not getting enough sleep, then that falls directly to mismanagement of those personnel.
A civilian vessel of 600 feet might have 40 crew (more likely 24) but a military vessel of the same size (with no marine compliment) will have upwards of 250. If the officers on these vessels cannot get their crew enough sleep, then there is a big problem.
Please do not respond about aircraft carriers, as I'm well aware that if they are having flight operations, that not even the off watch personnel can sleep. However, it has not yet been a carrier that has been involved in negligent operations, to the best of my knowledge.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

Just for fun .........
Transport Canada has a ticket named "Foreign Going Master". This is internationally recognized and loosely translates as "any vessel, anywhere".

I happen to have a copy of an old "Foreign Going Master" (Highest level Canadian ticket) exam that some of you may enjoy. This site will not allow me to post pdf's as an attachment but if any of you care to PM me with an email address I'll gladly send you a copy. I'll check the forum tomorrow night and all who have PM'd will get the exam. After that forget it.

If someone reminds me in a week or so I will then send them the Answer Sheet so you can see how you would have done.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Here is the official link for the STCW. So its no single licence or exam, but a series of standards that professional seafarers are examined to. The STCW doesn't issue the licence itself, the maritime authority of any given nation issues the certificate (in the US that's the USCG).

STCW Conv LINK

The USCG issues both domestic licenses to seafarers that are not STCW compliant licences, as well as foreign licenses that are STCW compliant, including STCW compliant licences for Masters, Mates and Engineers and Chiefs, however, there are also STCW compliant courses for unlicensed crew, such as marine fire fighting, life boat survival, operation of fast recue craft etc. The courses are given by your local nautical academy, under examination by the USCG to STCW standards or not, depending on whether they are STCW compliant courses.

For the gentleman asking the question, if you are going to carry passengers for hire in US flagged vessels or between US ports, you must have a USCG captains licence which can be either domestic, or STCW compliant (which is much more difficult to get).

For people not carrying passengers or freight for hire in the US, ie those operating vessels strictly for pleasure, no licence is required at the federal level. For some reason, non commercial deliveries for pay seem to get a pass I don't know the reason for this.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

capta said:


> ....Are the captains of US Navy vessels even licensed, or do they just come up through promotion and are expected to be competent?....


The Navy has it's own competency standards for promotion. (let's not get too critical of recent mistakes. As a rule, our Navy is very professional. All massive organizations have weak links and they should be fixed).

I do not think Navy personnel are automatically given USCG licenses. I think their experiences are considered case by case, if they apply for one, after their service. I suspect those cases are viewed leniently, but they must still pass the written. However, I truly have no idea.

I do know that military aviators do not possess FAA pilot's licenses. However, the worst military aviator is more skilled than 95% of commercial and civilian aviators that trained outside the military. They only need to learn some of the procedures that apply in civilian aviation, but they do navigate in civilian airspace, so they already know most.

I'm now curious whether USCG active duty are issued any of their own licenses. Anyone know?


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

grantheadifen said:


> ICC is a certificate issued for recreation sailing in European waters. The ICC was created by the United Nations under Resolution 40. Most of the European countries signed the resolution. The USA and Canada did not. Each nation that signed the resolution designates a national education body to issue the ICC license to it's citizens. The RYA (Royal Yachting Association) in the UK is the designated body for the UK but IMPORTANTLY they are also allowed under the rules to issue ICC licenses to citizens of countries who did not sign the resolution. Thus Citizens of the USA, Canada, New Zealand and Australia etc can be issued an ICC via the RYA.
> 
> Thus to gain an ICC you can get it through the RYA unless your own country signed Res. 40. The RYA has thousands of schools worldwide through which you do the theory and practical training and testing. They also have shore based schools whereby you do the theory course and test online and then visit an RYA School for the practical training and test.
> 
> ...


As an ASA and US/Sailing Instructor, I just want to point out that NauticED is not the only way in the US to gain an ICC/IPC. Also, the certificate is valid for 5-years from the date you apply.

ASA offers the ICC (now known as the IPC) to anyone that has _PASSED_ ASA 104, and coughs up an additional $40; https://asa.com/international-certificate-of-competence/

US/Sailing offers the IPC to anyone that has passed US/Sailing's bareboat cruising course (roughly equal to ASA 104), and coughs up an additional $35; Bareboat Chartering in Europe | Sailing Certification

The following countries require an IPC/ICC certificate;

Austria
Belarus
Belgium
Bulgaria
Croatia
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Ireland
Italy
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
Netherlands
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Spain
Switzerland
Turkey
United Kingdom
The following countries _may_ require a certificate for use within their territory. 

Moldova
Russian Federation
Serbia
Sweden
Ukraine


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> The Navy has it's own competency standards for promotion. (let's not get too critical of recent mistakes. As a rule, our Navy is very professional. All massive organizations have weak links and they should be fixed).
> 
> I do not think Navy personnel are automatically given USCG licenses. I think their experiences are considered case by case, if they apply for one, after their service. I suspect those cases are viewed leniently, but they must still pass the written. However, I truly have no idea.
> 
> ...


US Navy personnel are NOT issued USCG licenses. While submarines have sails, many who serve on them are not sailors.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> I'm now curious whether USCG active duty are issued any of their own licenses. Anyone know?


No, as I said, the licensing section does not consider them licensed when they depart that service and they must jump through the same hoops as we must. Heck, the USCG won't even accept military damage control and firefighting certification, (even though it is much more comprehensive than that necessary for their under 500 grt certifications) from any military service, including their own, which is why I stopped at 200 grt for my USCG certification.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I spent four years in the US Navy, and I can assure you that the USCG licensing system is exactly the same for me as anyone else who takes the exam. They show absolutely no favoritism to USN sailors. And, during the 60 years I have been on the water, I probably have covered more than 1-million miles at sea, but as someone said, the only true teacher is practical experience. I got to do things that most folks only dream of, visited more than 100 countries, many of which I would never visit again, drank more booze than I should have, and personally operated vessels to 760 feet as a coxswain, which requires no license whatsoever. There were nights when I was on that bridge and wondered what the Hell I would do if the forward lookout was sleeping and missed a ship on a collision course with our ship. Scary! 

I know hundreds of USCG licensed captains, some with 6 pack licenses who take out small fishing charters, some 100 ton guys that operate smaller party/head boats with 20 passengers, and a few 150 ton captains that operate larger party/head boats out of east coast sea ports carrying up to 100 passengers or more. They are all very competent, they are all drug tested randomly, and very few have a problem with license renewals unless health issues are involved. For the most part, their seamanship knowledge is first rate and second to none. Granted, there are some bad apples in every basket, but for the most part, USCG licensed captains are pretty damned good at what they do.

Happy New Year, everyone,

Gary


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

capta said:


> I'm sorry, but I really disagree with this statement entirely. Most military vessels have 4 to 10+ times the crew of an equal size civilian vessel, even if they are not warships. They have redundant personnel for every job aboard and if the crews are not getting enough sleep, then that falls directly to mismanagement of those personnel.
> A civilian vessel of 600 feet might have 40 crew (more likely 24) but a military vessel of the same size (with no marine compliment) will have upwards of 250. If the officers on these vessels cannot get their crew enough sleep, then there is a big problem.
> Please do not respond about aircraft carriers, as I'm well aware that if they are having flight operations, that not even the off watch personnel can sleep. However, it has not yet been a carrier that has been involved in negligent operations, to the best of my knowledge.


This was one of the findings of the enquiries into the recent collisions. The other problem, lack of training, ultimately is for the same reason as the lack of sleep - too much to do in not enough time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/us/politics/navy-hearing-armed-services-committee.html

But it's not a new problem, it's been known for a while :

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2015/06/20/navy-experts-call-for-more-sleep-for-ship-crews/

One of the results of the recent accidents has been that the Navy is finally accepting the expert's recommendations for shift patterns.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

travlin-easy said:


> Granted, there are some bad apples in every basket, but for the most part, USCG licensed captains are pretty damned good at what they do. Happy New Year, everyone, Gary


Gary, just to be quite clear, my criticism of the USCG licensing is not with the captains, but with the system. Someone who has no more experience on vessels larger than a rowboat can fake his sea time with very little chance of being caught. The Licensing Center has neither the budget, nor the personnel to verify sea time for each applicant. The exams are multiple choice, certainly not the best proof of mastery of a subject, if one can see the answer before them, and the exam prep courses are designed to pass anyone who pays the tab. I passed every aspect of the 100 ton Ocean Operator exam plus radar, Loran and sailing endorsements, in around 5 hours.
On the other side of the coin, my British Commonwealth exam took 25 hours of exams and not one question was multiple choice. Most questions had multiple parts and each question was scored at 100 points. The last 5 hours was before a panel of licensed masters from England who could ask any question from the syllabus for that grade of ticket.
Before I was even allowed to sit for the exam, I had to drive the harbor tug, aiding vessels docking and undocking, at the direction of the pilot, for a couple of weeks and then I had to actually be the harbor pilot for another couple. That certificate of competency allowed me to operate any vessel up to 50 meters, on any waters.
I was absolutely flabbergasted when the USCG would not reciprocate that ticket, especially after taking their silly excuse for a test of a candidate's competency to operated a vessel which could carry hundreds of passengers, and yet was limited to only 100 grt.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

It's pretty well established that it's substantially harder to get the lower tickets in the UK than the US. However, even to get one in the US, you have to make a reasonable commitment to study, which probably indicates at least one is heading in the right direction. It's still odd that there is no practical exam, like there is for a car or plane.

Nevertheless, I'm now curious if this bares out in an accident or incident results in vessels <100GT between the two countries. I suspect, in the US, you may get the license, but you're not getting the job, until you prove you know what you're doing.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> However, even to get one in the US, you have to make a reasonable commitment to study,


In the US, you are studying to pass the test, *not* to learn the rules. If you want to do that, you have to do that separately from the license prep courses.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

capta said:


> In the US, you are studying to pass the test, *not* to learn the rules. If you want to do that, you have to do that separately from the license prep courses.


Totally true, but it's not a single weekend endeavor. It takes months and I'm postulating that most who make that commitment have a bit more going for them than the average bear on the water.

It definitely doesn't make one instantly qualified to take my boat out, with a crew of 10. Nevertheless, I think if you took a dozen random 25T Master license holders and put them in a room with a dozen random non-license holders, you'd quickly note which group were the better seaman. Not to the person, but as a group.

I remain curious if the accident/incident rate, for license holders, is higher in the US.


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## Tin Kicker (3 mo ago)

Just tripped across this old thread.


Minnewaska said:


> ...I think if you took a dozen random 25T Master license holders and put them in a room with a dozen random non-license holders, you'd quickly note which group were the better seaman. ...
> 
> I remain curious if the accident/incident rate, for license holders, is higher in the US.


In aviation, we have a number of levels of experience to accumulate ratings for a pilot and there's an interesting correlation to pilots having accidents. 
40-60 flight hours to get a private certificate
For the instrument, have 50 hours cross country and 40 of instrument flight
For commercial have 250 hours flight time
For Transport (typically jets) have 1500 hours minimum.

What we find in accident data is that the majority of pilots having accidents have roughly 400-500 flight hours and these are generally your basic private pilots with enough experience to think they are fully competent but not people who fly for a living. Personally, I'd equate those to the USCG Captain license holders who have not been working on the water for years. 

Then the data show 3 further spikes at just under 2,000 hours, then 4,500 hours, and 6,500 hours. Doing investigations, I can not tell you how many times I've heard friends and relatives say "He was the best pilot I ever knew." The thought we immediately have is "So how many pilots have you known?"


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## CaptBobR (Jun 26, 2020)

I have a 1600 GRT Oceans license. I have never been anywhere in the world where my license was not accepted even places where they originally said a Yachtmaster was required. Look carefully at who is telling you you need to go to a certain school to get the Yachtmaster


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

CaptBobR said:


> I have a 1600 GRT Oceans license. I have never been anywhere in the world where my license was not accepted even places where they originally said a Yachtmaster was required. Look carefully at who is telling you you need to go to a certain school to get the Yachtmaster


For what it is worth, when i was in Portugal in 2017, Portugal officially only accepts the the ICC and RYA Yacht-master certification for vessels transiting Portugal. Otherwise, a Portuguese yacht-master license is required to operate a private yacht in Portuguese waters. to obtain a Portuguese yacht-master license, a specific course is required, and that course4 is only taught in Portuguese. Similarly the license requires passing a written exam that is printed in the Portuguese language, and both can only be taken without a translator.

Jeff


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

@Jeff_H - but that is for Portuguese-flagged vessels only, isn't it? They do not have jurisdiction over vessels with other flags. I know that the German license is accepted in Portugal - and that is neither ICC nor Yachtmaster.


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