# Could a fan in front of a sailboat improve sailing?



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hello. Newbie here.
A question sometimes asked is that if you have a large fan on a
sailboat blowing forward into the sails would that propel the boat
forward? The usual answer given is no because the fan blowing air
forward would produce momentum propelling the boat backwards. This
would swamp the effect of an effective wind acting on the sails.
But suppose instead you had the fan blowing rearward into the sails?
In this case the momentum would propel the boat forward. Furthermore by
using the method of tacking into the wind, the wind blowing into the
sails could produce a force with a forward component as well. Then the
acceleration forward should be higher than that produced by the
momentum flow of the fan alone. The speed could also be higher than the
speed of the air created by the fan. 
Could this work?

Bob


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## kokopelli9 (Aug 16, 2002)

Is this another entertainment thread?


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)




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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*I recommend...*

Just getting Surfesq to stand in place of the fan - he produces a much larger quantity of hot air!


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## kokopelli9 (Aug 16, 2002)

Good one PB...and so true!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*A fan, No, but...*

For airplanes which have low speed performance requirements there is a concept called ventialted slots or blown flaps. In this case a blower, not a fan, blows air across the leading edge of the wing or flap. THis is done to insure the air flow stays attached -- preventing stalling -- and allowing the aircraft to fly much more slowly and land in shorter distances.

This concept has been experimented with on sailboats. Rigid sail catamrans in particular.

The issue is power requirements. Such a blower on a sailboat would have energy requirements that would be at least as demanding as a motorsailors.

However, boat's such as Cousteau's Alcyone did consider spinning their rigs using power until natural forces took over.


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

Absent Ms. Booty's suggestion of Surfer One replacing the fan, yeah, sure -- having the fan blow towards the rear will work in theory. But boats are heavy so you'll need a BIG fan -- maybe an airplane engine with propellor or jet engine? Then you need a fuel source to run the engine, so add a huge fuel tank to the foredeck. Oh, a big battery for the engine also. Now all that will cause the boat to list to one side, so maybe put the fuel tank and batteries in a barge to tow behind the boat? But that will slow the boat down, so.......uummmmmm....... maybe just put all that money into some decent sails?

Denr-- is this really you?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

It is known with motorsailers that you can improve fuel efficiency by using the apparent wind on the sails created by the motor propelling the boat forward. The use of the sails also increases the speed you can achieve.
Using a propeller in the water is more efficient than using a fan in the air. However, some boats such as the fan-boats in the Florida everglades have to use fans because propellers in the water would get fouled by floating plants and branches in the water. Still, it is also true if you had a fan *at the stern* directed *rearward* and sails forward you could get better fuel efficiency and greater speed, just as with motorsailers. In this scenario though the fan is not blowing over the sails.
I'm asking a little different question. If instead you positioned the fan in front of the sails so it did blow rearward over the sails would you in fact get greater propulsion than what you would get from just using the apparent wind where the fan did not blow over the sails?


Bob


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Even without being an aerodynamic engineer, to me this notion seems half-crocked at least. But, assuming you were able to build such a high velocity fan, light enough to have little affect on boat trim & balance, but powerful enough to produce a force great enough, it perhaps is possible.

With that said, the orientation of the "fan" would be most effective if at a beam or close reach, and at a far enough distance from the sails to produce enough low pressure on the leeward side for forward propulsion. This is where your idea becomes a ridiculous fantasy.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Given the miniscule fuel usage of marine diesels on sailboats, you would lose more than you gained. For that kind of investment, the hybrid electric propulsion units now being worked on would be a much more efficent solution.

The only thing wrong with your solution Pirates Booty is, then you'd have to be looking at Tom Terrific all the time (shudder).


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Assuming you could find a place to mount this fan-tasy, you'd only ever be able to go as fast as the breeze coming off the fan. So, in the doldrums, you might gain something, but the bow would clearly be dipping. In a breeze, the fan would actually serve to slow down the wind coming at the boat. Want proof? Put a fan in a windward window at home. You'll get good airflow when it's still outside, but if the breeze picks up, you're better off with no fan at all.

In all, newbie though I be, I'll stick to "natural" windpower.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

gabachojefe said:


> Assuming you could find a place to mount this fan-tasy, you'd only ever be able to go as fast as the breeze coming off the fan. So, in the doldrums, you might gain something, but the bow would clearly be dipping...


 No, it is known by tacking into the wind the boat can have greater speed than the wind speed.

Bob


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

No argument here; meant that you'd have whatever speed you'd have in a similar breeze. I'll stand by my argument about interference, though: in anything more than a couple knots wind, you'd be doing yourself no favors.


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## kokopelli9 (Aug 16, 2002)

Hey, SailorMitch...good to see you here again. How did the week sail with Denr go? Did you manage to get him sufficiently seasick?Kokopuff...


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

If you'd mount a quantum attractor on the bow, you wouldn't need the sails or the fan.

Those things are so quaint, so 20th century! The good lord gave us eleven dimensions, why confine yourself to the first three or four of them?!


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

A fan of a size required to move air in the volume required to fill the sails would generate some large decibels. Think or the sound of a yachts wind generator in a BLOW, and that is being driven not driving air.............LEAVE CIVILZED SOCIOTY IF YOU MUST!!, GET A STINKY, NOISEY, POLLUTING, ENVIROMENTALY UNFREINDLY MOTOR DRIVEN MONSTROSITY.


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## anthonycolfelt (Jul 14, 2006)

I have a better question... Can you lift yourself up by your bootstraps? What if you jump a little first to give yourself some momentum?  

In all seriousness, the fan is going to act just like a propeller would in the water. It will give you some thrust if its big enough. You may even get a little extra from the sails, but no more than you would from equivalent thrust from a submerged propeller. 

It's newton's third law of physics. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. If there's thrust pushing the boat forward, its from the fan onto the sail and rig (pushing it equally backward). The fact that the boat moves forward because of the fan's thrust may draw a little extra air over the foil (sail) which will begin to cause some lift. But this isn't any different than if the 'fan' was underwater I would think.


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

To all you guys that speculate "if the fan was big enough" and other such speculations...wrong. ANY wind produced from an object on the boat (even from the hot air of surfesq) is subject to an equal and opposite effect in the opposite direction. I believe that was one the first laws of physics.
Pigslo


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Amazing the discussion even got this far. How about that quantum attractor?


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

RGClark said:


> No, it is known by tacking into the wind the boat can have greater speed than the wind speed.
> 
> Bob


Bob,

Have you even tacked a sailboat?


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

kokopelli9 said:


> Hey, SailorMitch...good to see you here again. How did the week sail with Denr go? Did you manage to get him sufficiently seasick?Kokopuff...


Hi Kokopuff!

Denr and I had a great week on the bay. Alas, he did not get sick -- the man has an iron constitution. But at least this time I didn't get sick!!!! My inner ear failed to grasp the intricacies of those Michi Gami square waves that first day back when. My home waters on the Chesapeake are kinder to my middle ear. Will send you more details in an email. Don't want to interupt the flow of this mesmerizing thread.


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

I am not aware of too many boats that can beat faster than the wind. 

pigslo


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## Newport41 (Jun 30, 2006)

I can't believe you're actually asking this. This has nothing to do with sailing. That's just a stupid question. I'm amazed that you can use a computer. A simple understanding of effort and resistance is taught in grade 10. Maybe you should drop in. I know I'm no rocket scientist but this is rediculous. Thanks anthony for the bootstrap line. I'll have to remember that/


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

SailorMitch said:


> Bob,
> 
> Have you even tacked a sailboat?


 No, I'm going by what I've read about tacking into the wind:

The physics of sailing.
"How can boats sail faster than the wind? Lots of boats can---especially the eighteen footer skiffs on Sydney Harbour. Ask a sailor how, and he'll say "These boats are so fast that they make their own wind", which is actually true. Ask a physicist, and she'll say that it's just a question of vectors and relative velocities."
...
"The faster that the boat goes, the greater the relative wind, the more force there is on the sails, so the greater the force dragging the boat forwards. So the boat accelerates until the drag from the water balances the forward component of the force from the sails."
...
"Why are eighteen footers always sailing upwind?
In a fast boat, there's no point going straight downwind: you can never go faster than the wind. So you travel at an angle. But if your boat is fast enough, then the relative wind always seems to be coming mainly from ahead of you, as these arrows show. So the eighteen footers never set ordinary spinnakers: they have asymmetrical sails that they can set even when they are travelling at small angles to the apparent wind."
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/sailing.html

I gather from this that being able to sail at a speed faster than the wind speed is not the norm for the average sailboat, but only for boats especially designed for speed.
The method of tacking into the wind also works with ice sailing where the runners pushing sideways against the ice is what causes a force on the boat with a forward component that allows the ice boat to move at an angle *into* the wind. With ice boats the speeds can exceed more than 70 mph when tacking into the wind, much higher than the wind speed:

Ice Yachting.
"A course of 20 miles with many turns has been sailed on the Hudson in less than 48 minutes, the record for a measured mile with flying start being at the rate of about 72 miles an hour. In a high wind, however, ice yachts often move at the rate of 85 and even 90 miles an hour.
"Several of the laws of ice navigation seem marvelous to the uninitiated. Commodore Irving Grinnell, who has made a scientific study of the sport, says: The two marked peculiarities of ice yachting which cause it to differ materially from yachting on the sea are the ability to sail faster than the wind and that sheets are flat aft under all circumstances. Mr. H. A. Buck, in the Badminton Library, Skating, Curling, Tobogganing, thus explains these paradoxes. An iceboat sails faster than the wind because she invariably sails at some angle to it. The momentum is increased by every puff of wind striking the sails obliquely, until it is finally equaled by the increase of friction engendered. Thus the continued bursts of wind against the sails cause a greater accumulation of speed in the ice yacht than is possessed by the wind itself. When the boat sails directly before the wind she is, like a balloon, at its mercy, and thus does not sail faster than the wind. The ice yacht always sails with its sheets flat aft, because the greater speed of the boat changes the angle at which the wind strikes the sail from that at which it would strike if the yacht were stationary to such a degree that, in whatever direction the yacht is sailing, the result is always the same as if the yacht were close-hauled to the wind. It follows that the yacht is actually overhauling the wind, and her canvas shivers as if in the wind's eye. When eased off her momentum becomes less and less until it drops to the velocity of the wind, when she can readily be stopped by being spun round and brought head to the wind."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_sailing

Apparently, these experts on ice sailing were not aware some sailboats can sail faster than the wind since that is not the usually state of affairs with the average sailboat. The greater drag of the keel in water explains why ice yachts are able to achieve higher speeds than sailboats.

Bob


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

You "people" have spent days answering the ridiculous question by a guy who admittedly has never tacked a boat. Now thats funny.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

anthonycolfelt said:


> I have a better question... Can you lift yourself up by your bootstraps? What if you jump a little first to give yourself some momentum?
> 
> In all seriousness, the fan is going to act just like a propeller would in the water. It will give you some thrust if its big enough. You may even get a little extra from the sails, but no more than you would from equivalent thrust from a submerged propeller.
> 
> It's newton's third law of physics. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. If there's thrust pushing the boat forward, its from the fan onto the sail and rig (pushing it equally backward). The fact that the boat moves forward because of the fan's thrust may draw a little extra air over the foil (sail) which will begin to cause some lift. But this isn't any different than if the 'fan' was underwater I would think.


 I agree as far as trying to get the greatest efficiency from the power produced from an engine you very likely would be better off putting that propeller in the water rather than the air.
However, it is known you can get higher speed and higher efficiency with a propeller in water driven boat if in addition you use sails. You are in effect "pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps" since the apparent wind acting on the sails is coming from the power of the motor, which nevertheless acts to produce greater speed than from the propeller acting alone.

Bob


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

What if you jump right before a falling elevator crashes to the ground?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Surfesq said:


> You "people" have spent days answering the ridiculous question by a guy who admittedly has never tacked a boat. Now thats funny.


 That's why you ask questions to get information from more knowledgeable people. 
Are you saying you personally are not aware of any sailboat able to travel faster than the windspeed?

Bob


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Wait Fan Man....You asked the question about the fan right? If you want to know about tacking...just get out there and sail.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

DynaMeme said:


> For airplanes which have low speed performance requirements there is a concept called ventialted slots or blown flaps. In this case a blower, not a fan, blows air across the leading edge of the wing or flap. THis is done to insure the air flow stays attached -- preventing stalling -- and allowing the aircraft to fly much more slowly and land in shorter distances.
> 
> This concept has been experimented with on sailboats. Rigid sail catamrans in particular.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the response. The question is not purely theoretical. I'm considering it both for sea cruises and transport and for aircraft to improve fuel efficiency and travel times.
It is known with motorsailers that you could improve fuel efficiency and speed by having the propeller in water operating at the same time you are using the sails.
Because of this fact if you used a fan not blowing over the sails but blowing rearward from the stern, you would likewise get better fuel efficiency and speed.
But it seems to me by placing the fan at the front so that it blew over the sails, the apparent wind speed would be even greater so the fuel savings and speed should be greater than for the fan at the stern.
I don't know how much greater though. Might it even be large enough to match or exceed having a propeller in the water?

Bob


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Surfesq said:


> What if you jump right before a falling elevator crashes to the ground?


 Could you survive? No:

Elevator of Death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters_(season_2)#Elevator_of_Death

However, it is known that by using sails with a propeller driven craft you can get better speed than from the propeller alone. This increase in speed is coming from the wind _created by motor itself_:

Motorsailing - Some Thoughts.
"Based on my experience the motorsailer is the most practical and comfortable vessel for serious ocean passagemaking. However these days power-only long range cruising yachts seem to be the rage. We sell about 8 power boats for each motorsailer we build. I personally can not understand the long range powerboat skipper generating a beautiful 7 to 9 knot wind, at some cost, and than just throwing it away - while worrying about fuel?"
...
"Plus the sailing rig increases the speed of the vessel so less fuel capacity is needed. This weight savings coupled with the additional propulsion power available results in faster passages and excellent fuel economy.
"How can this be? Well most power-only trawler yachts cruise at around 6 to 8 knots per hour depending on power, weight, hull shape and water line length. All these vessels are creating, at some expense, a wind equal to their speed. This wind, a vital and reliable source of energy, combines with and adds to the true wind to create an apparent wind across the boat which is just thrown away. The motorsailer, on the other hand, uses its rig to regain this energy resulting in increased boat speed, up to 25% above a stabilized powerboat, without increasing fuel use."
http://www.seahorseyachts.com/seahorsemarine/seahorsemarine_3.html

Bob


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Bob,
In all due respect to your presumed intelligence, apparent wind and fan-generated wind are two completely different forces. My wife and I just returned from three days of both "pure" sailing and motorsailing - since we own a motorsailer, and that is what they're designed for.

Winds were variable in speed and direction. So, during those 5 knot lulls, I kicked on the 90 hp iron genny . . . at a low rpm - and put up full sail, 150 Genoa, main & mizzen. Where the other sailboats on the Bay were barely motorsailing at 4 knots, we kicked butt at 9 knots & 1,700 rpm.

Show me a powered fan which can get a 9 ton, 33 ft boat moving at 9 knots with that meager energy usage. Admit that this notion of yours is simply ridiculous.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

trueblue-

Of course, water is a far more efficient medium for a propellor, being far denser than air. Just thought I'd point that out. That said, the idea of a propellor on the front of a boat, is rather ridiculous, as the weight of the batteries or engine used to spin it...would far outweigh the benefit of the propellor itself, and how much thrust it would generate IMHO.


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

Ok, I just reread this entire thread trying to understand where Bob is coming from. First Bob, yes, planing sailboats and iceboats can go faster than the true windspeed. That primarily is due to the lack of drag from a hull being in the water (not just the keel.) You now need to take your education one step further and read about displacement boats, theoretical hull speed, bow waves, etc. You can't take the "rules" for a planing hull and apply them to the motorsailor you keep talking about.

You also keep going back to your motorsailor concept that "it is known" that, while motoring, you can go faster with the sails up than with the sails down. Sometimes true, sometimes not. The propaganda you're relying on from that outfit that makes motorsailors fails to mention that "oh by the way, if the wind is on the nose, your sails will flog themselves to death, so don't try motorsailing into the wind." The only time that notion is true is if you are sailing at an angle to the wind ample enough to make the sails efficient so that they provide some forward assistance. If you're motoring into the wind and raise the main, for example, the sail will do you no good -- it becomes a very good windvane and flogs. If you try to move the traveler so that the wind fills the sail, that means the sail will be out so far it is actually working as a break and will slow you down.

It's not just motorsailors we are talking about either. Every sailboat with an engine becomes a motorsailor when a sail is up and the engine is on. Whether the sails increase speed depends on the angle of the wind. And if you insist on saying "the apparent wind will keep increasing if you keep tacking into it" -- think about what that means about your course and are you really going anywhere. You also need to learn about a little concept called velocity made good.

In short, Bob, get your nose out of the books and onto a sailboat and see how this all works on the water. You'll be amazed.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thats what I have been saying! Get out there and get wet!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

TrueBlue said:


> Bob,
> In all due respect to your presumed intelligence, apparent wind and fan-generated wind are two completely different forces. My wife and I just returned from three days of both "pure" sailing and motorsailing - since we own a motorsailer, and that is what they're designed for.
> 
> Winds were variable in speed and direction. So, during those 5 knot lulls, I kicked on the 90 hp iron genny . . . at a low rpm - and put up full sail, 150 Genoa, main & mizzen. Where the other sailboats on the Bay were barely motorsailing at 4 knots, we kicked butt at 9 knots & 1,700 rpm.
> ...


 It is _probably_ correct that you can't do better than using a propeller in the water. 
However, that's not the only scenario I'm considering. Fan boats of course have to use fans. It is conceivable placing a sail behind the fan on those boats could improve efficiency and speed.
It's still not certain to me that you could get better speed by using a fan in front of a sail than one after the sail, but here's a start at something:

A motorsailer, with a water propeller, creates its own apparent wind. Then an obvious guess to make is that the increase in speed for the motorsailer is just like there was a true wind operating. So to find the increase in speed, calculate the total velocity as the vector sum of the velocity due the motor alone plus the velocity given to the sailboat alone tacking into a true wind of the same speed as that due to the motor alone.
IF that is true, then the obvious guess to make is that the speed of the fan in front of sail case, would be given by calculating the vector sum of the velocity due to the momentum thrust of the fan alone plus the velocity of the sailboat alone tacking into a true wind that is the same as the apparent wind due to the fan plus the speed of air flow through the fan.
That is, imagine the speed of the boat produced by the fan with no sail. Then the magnitude of the effective "true" wind you would calculate with would be this speed plus the air speed from the fan.
Under this *hypothesis* then, you see an increase in the fan air speed could result in a marked improvement in the boat speed. It would be just like an increase in the true wind speed.
Here's a start at understanding how much horsepower could improve the boat speed IF this hypothesis is correct:

This page gives a formula for calculating how much power a wind turbine or windmill can put out for a given wind speed and rotor size:

Practical Wind Generated Electricity.
http://mb-soft.com/public/wind.html

Then we may suppose an engine of that horspower could turn rotors of the equivalent size and generate an equivalent wind speed.

Here's the formula for calculating the horsepower of the wind turbine:

Practical Wind Generated Electricity.
"Any moving material carries kinetic energy and momentum. The basic laws of kinematics allow an easy analysis of a first approximation of performance. Essentially, any wind-power mechanism captures energy by slowing down the speed of the wind involved.

Undisturbed wind contains power from kinetic energy (energy flux) equal to:
E = 0.5 * (rho) * V^3 * (pi) * R^2.

Note that this is a simple application of the kinetic energy definition. Also note that the power is dependent on the THIRD power of V, the wind speed. A 20-mph wind has about 8 times as much power as a 10-mph wind, and a 40-mph wind has about 64 times as much power. (rho) is the density of air.)

In case you're curious, a 60-mph wind (88 feet/second) has:
E = 0.5 * (0.00237) * (883) * 12
or
E = 810 ft-lb/sec, about 1.5 horsepower per square foot of wind area!

You can probably see why strong winds can knock buildings down!

A 10-mph wind has far less power in it, around 4 ft-lb/sec, or about 1/150 horsepower per square foot. A ten-foot diameter farm windmill intercepts about 78 square feet of wind area, so that (10 mph) wind initially contained about 0.5 horsepower in it. At its maximum efficiency of 30%, the farm windmill could capture around 0.15 horsepower, a sufficient amount for pumping water."
http://mb-soft.com/public/wind.html

So a .15 horsepower engine turning a 10 ft rotor could produce a 10 mph wind. A 10 foot rotor would be small for sails though. But by the formula a 3*10 = 30 ft rotor for the same wind could be driven by a engine with 3^2 = 9 times more power or 1.35 horsepower. 
Now again by the formula, this 30 ft rotor could produce a 4*10 = 40 mph wind by using a 4^3 times more powerful engine: 1.35*4^3 = 1.35*64 = 86.4 horsepower, within the range of your engine for your motorsailer
A 40 mph wind would be quite a significant wind for a sailboat and could give it significant speed.

This is assuming the hypothesis for how the fan air speed would contribute to the boat speed is the correct one.

Bob Clark


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes, but to effectively generate enough wind to cover a sail and have it generate lift, the propellor size would have to be almost the height of the sail. Using the wind generator scenario doesn't cut it...a wind generator has a blade that is two-meters at most in diameter... and six-feet of wind over a 35-foot tall sail isn't going to generate any appreciable lift.


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## sailorjim99 (May 1, 2006)

G'day..
This question reminds me of when I was a kid (Last year) and I often thought of that.

BUT I was refered to another question by a wiser person. It is much the same as a fan to go faster but relates to a spaceship.
If a spaceship travels a little faster than the speed of light and turns on headlights, will that improve the drivers vision?

I bet there are dozens unanswered questions out there.


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

Once again, it does not matter how big the fan is, the force against the sail is exactly equal to the force that happens to be on the front of the fan blades but in the opposite direction and so is ZEROED OUT. Any low presure due to wind over the sail shape is canceled by the low presure behind the fan.

Pigslo


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Is this a joke?


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

*pearls before.....well, you know*



pigslo said:


> Once again, it does not matter how big the fan is, the force against the sail is exactly equal to the force that happens to be on the front of the fan blades but in the opposite direction and so is ZEROED OUT. Any low presure due to wind over the sail shape is canceled by the low presure behind the fan.
> 
> Pigslo


Pig -- Sorry, but we all are casting pearls before swine.  No offense meant of course. Bob is intent on rewriting the laws of physics anyway. Can't wait for him to figure out that he has to consider drag in the formula. He's really hung up on this motorsailor making its own apparent wind thing, not realizing that a canoe also makes its own apparent wind.

Bob -- Have you ever seen the movie "What About Bob"? Rent it this weekend. Has a good sailing scene that made me think of you.

In closing: "It doesn't matter if the stone hits the pitcher, or the pitcher hits the stone. It's going to be bad for the pitcher." Sancho Panza in Man of La Mancha (speaking of tilting at windmills.)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

pigslo said:


> Once again, it does not matter how big the fan is, the force against the sail is exactly equal to the force that happens to be on the front of the fan blades but in the opposite direction and so is ZEROED OUT. Any low presure due to wind over the sail shape is canceled by the low presure behind the fan.
> 
> Pigslo


 The situation is made more complicated by what happens when tacking into a true head wind. In that case you would think that since the wind impinges on the front of the sail, though at an angle, and tends to move the sail backward, the boat should also move backward. However, it is the additional force of the water on the keel that makes the boat move forward.
Likewise it could be that the fan generated air flow impinging on the sail at an angle could also result in the boat moving forward because of the effect of the water on the keel.
In any case this is indeed something that can be resolved by experiment. Remember bathtub toys with boats? You could first have a little floating boat with a sail and use either air from a blown up balloon or those little battery operated personal fans held outside the boat to blow on the sail at an angle to see how fast the boat tacks into the wind. Your little toy boat would need a keel for this purpose.
Then attach the balloon or fan at the stern but with the sail removed to see how fast the boat can move from the momentum of the air flow alone.
Then attach the balloon or the fan at the stern with the sail attached forward, so it's not blowing over the sail, and see how fast the boat goes in this case. Change the angle of the sail to various degrees to see how tacking into the apparent wind can improve speed. Is the speed faster than in the fan alone case?
Finally attach the balloon or fan at the front so it is blowing over the sail and put the sail again at various angles and see if this results in an even higher speed than in any of the prior cases.
I'll let you know the results of my bathtub experiments.

Bob


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

SailorMitch said:


> Ok, I just reread this entire thread trying to understand where Bob is coming from. First Bob, yes, planing sailboats and iceboats can go faster than the true windspeed. That primarily is due to the lack of drag from a hull being in the water (not just the keel.) You now need to take your education one step further and read about displacement boats, theoretical hull speed, bow waves, etc. You can't take the "rules" for a planing hull and apply them to the motorsailor you keep talking about.
> 
> You also keep going back to your motorsailor concept that "it is known" that, while motoring, you can go faster with the sails up than with the sails down. Sometimes true, sometimes not. The propaganda you're relying on from that outfit that makes motorsailors fails to mention that "oh by the way, if the wind is on the nose, your sails will flog themselves to death, so don't try motorsailing into the wind." The only time that notion is true is if you are sailing at an angle to the wind ample enough to make the sails efficient so that they provide some forward assistance. If you're motoring into the wind and raise the main, for example, the sail will do you no good -- it becomes a very good windvane and flogs. If you try to move the traveler so that the wind fills the sail, that means the sail will be out so far it is actually working as a break and will slow you down.
> 
> ...


 You made some good points here. I found this article from New Scientist while web searching on motorsailing:

The new age of sail.
26 February 2005 
http://www.newscientisttech.com/article/mg18524881.600.html

The article reports on past and future efforts to improve fuel efficiency and speed on transport ships by attaching sails. It is notable that an earlier Japanese effort on this idea was discontinued; presumably it was not cost effective.
However, the article reports a Danish team believes it can be made to work by using efficient airfoils rather than sails.
This doesn't tell us though what would happen with a fan producing additional apparent wind.
Care to try your own bathtub experiments?

Bob


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

Any forward movement is from the fan or ballon blowing against the air around the boat ( the same as an everglades boat moves forward). Any low presure (that is what moves a sailboat upwind) created around a sail by an object on the boat and therefore moving with the boat will be subject to an IDENTICLE counteracting low presure and there by canceling it out. That is just physics. File your drawings of this contraption at the patent office along with a perpetual motion machine.

Pigslo


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

Any hybrid ships that use sails that increase efficiency of the engines do so by harnessing the wind that is provided by nature, not wind created on the boat. Those are two different things.


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## dman (Dec 25, 2004)

I think i seen one of these at the dollar store.When i take a bath tonight i`ll flash it up and see if it can keep up to the rubber duck. A diet in beans could also be used for a natural form of propulsion as well.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

pigslo said:


> Any forward movement is from the fan or ballon blowing against the air around the boat ( the same as an everglades boat moves forward). Any low presure (that is what moves a sailboat upwind) created around a sail by an object on the boat and therefore moving with the boat will be subject to an IDENTICLE counteracting low presure and there by canceling it out. That is just physics. File your drawings of this contraption at the patent office along with a perpetual motion machine.
> 
> Pigslo


 Any explanation that does not include the force of the water on the keel is incomplete for explaining tacking into the wind.

This page provides a good explanation of it:

The physics of sailing.
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/sailing.html

Note especially the section that begins:

"*Sailing close to the wind* uses the shape of the sails to generate lift. To flow around the sails, the wind has to deviate in direction, as shown by the arrows for initial velocity vi and final velocity vf, which are given with respect to the boat. The change of velocity dv is in the direction shown. The acceleration aa of the air is dv/dt, so the force that sails exert on the air is in the same direction."

As you can see from the images accompanying this section, the lift produced only results in a force on the boat that has a _rearward_ component, not forward. More precisely, the lift acts to move the boat _sideways_ and _rearward_.
It is only the action of the water on the keel that provides a _forwards_ force component that allows the boat to move forwards.

Here's another way to look at the scenario. Suppose you had your giant fan on a raft with no sail or keel. This raft is connected to the sailboat by a rope. Suppose this rope initially is slack. You turn on the fan directed towards the sailboat. The wind produced by the fan allows the sailboat to move forwards by tacking into the wind. The raft and fan also move forwards separately due to the momentum thrust of the fan. The instant the rope is about to become taut you turn off the fan. When the rope tightens, the sailboat will get a higher speed because of the forward momentum of the raft. The raft will also be pulled backward but it won't affect the forward speed of the boat as long as it does not contact the boat. You make the rope long enough so this doesn't happen. Once the rope is slack again. You turn on the fan again. The process repeats.
You see the result will be that the sailboat will wind up having a speed due to _both_ the wind produced by the fan acting on the sails and from the momentum thrust produced by the fan.

Bob


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## Rodz47 (Apr 2, 2006)

Bob, with all due respect to the professors I think that it would be better if you consider forces exerted on the sails and hull because not velocity moves the boat but FORCES. Then you would take into consideration ALL actions and reactions and result would show in which direction your boat would be moving. Don' forget including the mentioned Bernoulli effect and others as they have big influence on boat movement. Think about shape of sails. All together is a little bit more complicated than you think.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well why not beat the concept to death by studying Newton's Third Law of Motion which states: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." I guess that sums it up. Lets all buy fans!


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

I think I've figured this out. This is obviously a government project, where you spend $3.00 to save $1.00.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

My opinion.............. I don't think its gonna work.


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## sailorjim99 (May 1, 2006)

Hey SAILORTJK1..
I am with you mate.
Gotta be a joke.
But I am serious about the headlights on a spaceship.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I'm with you, Sailor Jim: it's either a complete joke or a test of stupidy. Having already demonstrated mine, I'll bow out.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

My suggestion would be to take the same power source that is driving the big fan, and couple it to a 2 bladed propeller and put it in the water...

Of course, now you have the noise from a motor, exhaust fumes, and you're buying gas or diesel when you want to go somewhere...

Mike


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

"Roll another one...just like the other one. You've been holding on to it and I sure would like a hit....Don't bogart that joint my friend, pass it over to me...."

Dude 1: "Dude...lets get like a big fan and put it on the front of a sailboat so we can go faster"

Dude 2: "Whoa what a rush"


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## dman (Dec 25, 2004)

I am running air ducts out of my car from the defrost as we speak.Had to quit the coal mine,couldn`t handle the night shift.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Rodz47 said:


> Bob, with all due respect to the professors I think that it would be better if you consider forces exerted on the sails and hull because not velocity moves the boat but FORCES. Then you would take into consideration ALL actions and reactions and result would show in which direction your boat would be moving. Don' forget including the mentioned Bernoulli effect and others as they have big influence on boat movement. Think about shape of sails. All together is a little bit more complicated than you think.


 Hmm. I said that the lift force only produces a "rearward" and sideways force component. That's certainly the way it looks in the images on the web page I cited "The physics of sailing." But in that same section of the page it says:

"Now this force is mainly sideways on the boat, and it gets more and more sideways as you get closer to the wind. However, part of the force is forward: the direction we want to go."

So is this saying you could get some forward acceleration even if you didn't have a keel, purely from the lift force?

Bob


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## banshee (Jun 29, 2006)

Please make this thread stop - it is stupid!


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

banshee said:


> Please make this thread stop - it is stupid!


This from a Fight Club regular? Isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

banshee said:


> Please make this thread stop - it is stupid!


 I'll make this promise:
No more posts on the subject until after I perform my bathtub experiments.

- Bob


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Perhaps...*

A time travel machine would be a bit more plausible, Bob.

Were you abducted by aliens at some point?


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## sailingforever (Mar 4, 2006)

Aren't sailboats supposed to be wind-powered?!


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## banshee (Jun 29, 2006)

Bob- okay I'll give you your opportunity for the bathtub experiments - report back

PBZer - now you have really insulted me - "a Fight Club Regular" well I have never.........................


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

sailingforever said:


> Aren't sailboats supposed to be wind-powered?!


We have a Bingo !!!


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## sailingforever (Mar 4, 2006)

what does that supposed to mean?


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Methinks since Sailingforever's profile claims she's only 12, she has no idea what Bingo is.


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## sailingforever (Mar 4, 2006)

I thought it was a game


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

It means.....you won the prize. Thank goodness there's someone who doesn't try to over complicate things.


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## sailingforever (Mar 4, 2006)

oh... well that's nice!


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

RGClark said:


> I'll make this promise:
> No more posts on the subject until after I perform my bathtub experiments.
> 
> - Bob


Bob -- Thanks for the reprieve. And when you plug that fan in for the bathtub experiment, please make sure it's a GFI receptacle, OK.

Or do you have to worry about such things on K-Pax? (Yet another movie you need to rent, Bob. But rent "What About Bob?" first!)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Lets try this
Climb up a rope.
Next run the same rope through a pully, tie yourself off on one end and haul yourself up with the other.
Which is easier???


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I would say watch this video and report back.

http://www.drunkuniversity.com/playvideo.php?video=idiot.wmv


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## Artwerke (Nov 25, 2005)

I grew up close enough to Art & Walt Arfons to wonder, what if you took a surplus J-47 engine, chained it to the deck of , say a catalina 27, and lit that sucker off ? 'Think she'd go to winward?


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## Hawkeye25 (Jun 2, 2005)

Okay, take the right fan - a Greenbay fan with a painted naked belly in zero degree temps, with a cheesehead hat on, drunk and full of chili - put him on the rear of the boat, screaming at refs for imaginary bad calls, and I'm betting the boat tries to move away out of revulsion, with or without sails. 

It's murky science, but the theory is as good as some of the others.

Hawk


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## sailingforever (Mar 4, 2006)

this has got to be the most ridiculous thread ever posted on sailnet!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

sailingforever said:


> this has got to be the most ridiculous thread ever posted on sailnet!


Your point being what???


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## Rodz47 (Apr 2, 2006)

Gentlemen! please!
this was legitimate question of a newbie. If you followed posts you would notice that Bob changed his view/question because of your explanations. If there is an engineer specializing in fluid mechanics among us he/she could educate Bob (and others) how the sails work in plain terms. One may know a web page where Bob can find information to help him in his research. You know ... Einstein's theory of relativity is not understood by all people.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Something for Nothing?*

In my article, "The Physics of Wind Driven Vessels" to be post shortly(?), thanks to Chris Colton & Ricardo Carzado, you'll find the basis of the answer to you speculation! The simplest answer is that unless the Conservation of Energy Law is abrogated somehow, you can't get something for nothing and the best you can do is add the (kinetic) energy given to the boat by the "fan" to that from the wind (via the sails).

Charlie Zarowin (cbzarowin)


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

It takes a certain amount of energy to do a certain amount of work ( e.g., move a 10,000# boat through the water at a given speed), regardless of whether that energy is generated by an engine, or solar power, or wind power. When you want to use that energy to do work, you have to convert it to propulsive force. You have to transmit the energy from the engine to the drive wheels of a car, or to the propellor of a boat, or to the sails. Generally, transmitting the power through a mechanical device (such as a gearbox) is a relatively efficient method, because it doesn't allow much of the energy to bleed off, as waste. Transmitting the power to the water through a propellor is also relatively efficient, for the same reason. Transmitting power to the sails by converting it to wind is very inefficient, resulting in the waste of much of the power. 

Moreover, when you're driving a boat to windward through the water by an engine-driven propellor in the water, the keel is generating minimal drag, and practically all the energy is being used to propel the boat forward. When you're driving it through the water by sailpower, the keel is generating lift, which means that a significant part of the power is being used to prevent the boat from drifting to leeward, and the remainder of the power is being used to propel the boat forward. 

You're proposing to use a certain amount of power to drive a fan, and to convert that power into wind power, and to transmit it inefficiently to the sails, and to ultimately drive the boat to windward. If you use that same power to drive a propellor immersed in the water, you will waste less of the power through an inefficient method of transmission, and you will use all of the power to drive the boat forward, instead of using part of it to prevent the boat from drifting to leeward.

I'll accept, solely for the sake of argument, that your proposal would work on a purely theoretical level, but the purpose of invention is to create a better mousetrap, not a less functional one. You're not considering all the relevant factors, and those factors make the idea impracticable.


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

When last heard from on here, Mr. Clarke was off to his bathtub for his little experiment. When we didn't hear from him after that, I assumed he had ignored my advice about being sure to plug the fan into a GFI outlet.

Alas, he surfaced a couple of weeks ago on Sailing Anarchy with more or less the same stuff -- although revised somewhat based on what he had learned here. For example, he no longer assumed that only motorsailors create an apparent wind. Sailing Anarchy being just that, the crowd there skewered him pretty well, with the occasional post thrown in about how stupid the thread was. There is that common theme in the two threads at least.

With some luck, Mr. Clarke is back on his meds now, or back on the inside, and won't read this resurrection of his thread.


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## empresa (Nov 8, 2006)

Bwahahahahaha


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## empresa (Nov 8, 2006)

Had a few tots, so therefore, Empresa discounts any and all vicarious liability for this post.

You are an idiot.

Boundary layers, (look it up) coeffecient of friction, laminar flow, aero and hydro-dynamics, (and especially the interface between the two, notwithstanding they are both fluids) and aeronautical engineering...
These subjects should give you a basis upon which to build a knowledge base, a necessary base upon which to sail a boat. (Unless learned through instruction from childhood.)
Specific questions, I will certainly entertain and answer as is practicable. 
Have you ever heard of a theory known as the 'conservation of energy'?
Look it up...
The 'theory of relativity' may also provide some insights...


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Science be damned... I think it might be fun to talk some cooter in the Everglades into lashing a mast onto the back of his fan boat!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*...physics*

Hoo, boy! Can't believe I'm even joining this thread...
Here's my way of looking at it:
Fan mounted on the aft end of a sailboat blowing forward at the sails:

1) Force of wind from fan on sails exerts pressure via the sails on the mast base, tending to push the boat forward.

2) Force generated by fan on mounting post of fan exerts force on the fan post base tending to push boat backward (Just like the propulsion of a propeller-driven aircraft).

1) and 2) cancel each other out, therefore, no net propulsion of the sailboat!

Otherwise, if the principles of conservation of energy were not true, we'd be able to invent a true perpetual motion machine.

On the issue of sailboats going faster than true wind, remember that there are TWO foils active: the sails and the keel. Both generate lift. A sailboat with no keel or underwater foil could only travel dead downwind, and would not exceed true windspeed. Exceeding windspeed requires efficient foils and travelling on a reach.

Yikes!
Q


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## ruiz488 (Dec 20, 2006)

Sorry I do not agree with most answers...is simply a matter of physics 101

independent of the position of the fan ON THE BOAT, it will do no good to improve the speed or action.....simply because of the laws of action and reaction!

Now if you install the fan on laNd or any other FIX object/or vehicle and blow on the boat..... YOU WILL GET A REACTION THAT DEPENDING ON THE DIRECTION WILL OR WILL NOT TAKE YOU HOME FOR DINNER.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

I thought this thread was dead!


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Sailor!!! How are you??

Been away??


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Been good G, Thank you.
Work has been kind of crazy the past couple of days and to tell you the truth, I've been watching the post go by and I have not had much to offer, so I stay out of the way.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Oh crap! I just read this thread! You mean my fan isn't going to work? Great. Just great!! Now I got to go stand in the lines at Walmart and return the thing. Thanks guys for nothing... and I thought I had the Americas Cup all figured out. Well, if they won't take it back, maybe I can get a big anchor where the water will push it down and really hold it under. What about filling the anchor with water too, kinda like a water balloon!? Man, that is a great idea. I hope that Craig guy at ROcna anchors isn't reading this. He might try and steal it!

You too Giu... don't you steal my idea. I will call it the water-ballast anchor. I will make millions!!!


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

CD, I will not steal your idea. Now think about my idea!!

Filling the mast with foam, makes it float, right?? therefore.....a mast filled with foam will be lighter, and thus will reduce the pendulum effect, right??

FOAMSTICK!!! that will be my brand name!!!


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I have an even better idea - fill the mast with helium . . . solves my wive's heeling paranoia.


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

Actually I have heard of filling the mast with foam as it will slow a roll and maybe revent capsize. Downside is more weight aloft that adds to the roll that you trying to slow so as not to capsize. Man, this is a complex hobby.
pigslo


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

PIG,

my *FOAMSTICK©, ®, tm, registred, pat pending *foam mast is to reduce weight aloft by usin the positive (plus, +) boyancy of the foam in the air, thus making the mast lighter when the boat is upright.

Should you choose to sail, mast down, then you need my *STICKAIRBAG ©, ®, tm, registred, pat pending*, Its a simple variation of the Airbag from a car, but installed in the mast.

Shoud you want to hit (dock) your boat harder than usual, please use my *HIT-CUSHION-AIR-FILLED-DEVICE ©, ®, tm, registred, pat pending*, some one less scrupolous in the industry calls a fender.

All for sale in www.Portugal-invents-the-wheel.com D


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I think Giulietta has finally lost it...


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

So I meet this very attractive girl in a bar. She tells me she has always wanted to go sailing. Me being the guy I am could not resist, so the very next day we are out on the water in 25+knots and on my old boat a Cal 25-II. We are zipping along around 6.5knots with only a 110 jib set and healed over about 30degrees. Than of course she asked, "Can we tip over?"

I of course give her all the reasons why we won't capsize.

A couple of months later she is reading in Sailing Magazine how one should always make sure that their mast is sealed to prevent the boat from turtleing if capsized.!!

There it was in a magazine, how could I explain that one. Anyway we got married shortly after, but she still reminds me about it.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

If you think of it logically, you would have a huge, ugly, dangerous spinning aparatus blowing directly onto the sail. I guess you could put a pivot arm attached to the bow, say, 50 ft in front with the fan mounted to the end, so you could adjust the fan for the most efficient angle of attack on the leading edge of the sail. 

The real question is, fuel consumption and efficiency of the fan vs motorsailing, and if it did work, could you stand the ridicule at the dock?


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

No, the real question is can you find an extension cord long enough to reach from the fan, along the 50' arm, down the boat, and back to the dock!


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## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

This is the BEST thread on any - absoultely any - forum anywhere. I have not laughed so hard in many moons... on so many levels. 

I forgot to add: I am looking forward to seeing this out on the water come spring.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Giulletta, hey bud, you forgot the inflatable water filled anchor that can be used in all conditions. For 20 lb anchor, put 20 pts. of water and drop over the side. for a 50 lb, well you know the rest Invented by a Portuguese mariner who set off around the world and never heard from again


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Yes. A sail is a wing, like an airplane wing sideways, so you could put an engine on that wing just like on an airplane and create lift. Question is, why would you ever want to ? If you're going to use an engine it's much more fuel efficient to drive a transmission and prop than it is to drive a generator, fan, wing, which is going to be grossly full of loss (or just fan/wing, same difference). Airplanes only do it because, well, they have to, but a boat would do better to swish the water around. The reason for a sailboat is that the wind is already there.


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## Hawkeye25 (Jun 2, 2005)

If only I could respond to this thread with the respect and dignity it so richly deserves. Certainly, an airplane has a fan (of sorts) on the front, and I'm sure jet engines have a fan stage in the front. Open the hood on a car and the engine has a fan on the front. The grill on Britney Spears limo occasionally has a fan on the front, and all these things do move fast.

Sailboats, however, I'm not so sure. I once saw a sailboat with a drunken Jimmy Buffett fan on the front, shirtless, sunburned, and bellowing Margaritaville like a Bears fan on New Years Day, but the sailboat did not seem to move any faster.

It is possible that a new product, *FARTINACAN, c Stevie Beans, Chew wah wah Mexico*, might fill the jib if released all at once, or just force the boat to run away. Feeding the Buffett fan six bean buritto's will have the same effect. It IS a wind phenomenon.

I would LOVE to see foam that's lighter than air. I would love to see a float made of it in the shape of a drugged out pseudo scientist flying in the Macy's parade, just behind Fritz the Cat.

The fan on the sailboat will only work during the Aurora Borealis when Saturn is in for oil change.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Just Now In Stores!!!!!!!!!!

Buy Now While Stock Lasts

Powder Electricity, Yes!!!

You Can Now Power Your Boat Wind Booster Fan With Giulietta's Dry Powder Electricity.

Just Add Water, And You CAn Have Up To 2 Mw In Power!!!

Remember, If It Does Not Say Giulietta's Original Powder Electricity, IN THE CAN, It's Not The Real Deal. Avoid Fakes!!!!

Buy Now........

G's Powder Electricity!!!


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## cockeyedbob (Dec 6, 2006)

Finally got around to reading this thread. Just one misstep and yer chum ... I believe in forensic medicine, the term is total morselization ... red sails in the sunset!!!


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

From a previous post...."If you think of it logically, you would have a huge, ugly, dangerous spinning aparatus blowing directly onto the sail." Sounds like my second wife although she did not blow hard or often enough.


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## cockeyedbob (Dec 6, 2006)

...but sometimes it's helpful to have the right tool to work with ... my mate speaks of inspiration and I hope she means breathing ...


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Since you obviously need more than one fan I am chagrined that the sailnet community has not responded to such pressing issues as to whether the fans should be in SERIES or PARALLEL and of course how should they be ANCHORED? Should multiple anchors be used? Should a combination of chain and line be used? If mounted in series, can one be serviced while running the other? Only when these fundamental issues are conclusively answered will it be appropriate to discuss the proper coating of the apparatus. And a paltry number of web sites have been referenced to date in confirmation of the posters opinions-let's get on that.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

What if the fan were actually a helicopter!!!! That way it's power source would be self contained, and it could just move in conjuction with the boat.


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## empresa (Nov 8, 2006)

I have finally hit upon the perfect answer... what you do is put 15 wind generators on the forestay, stacked vertically, (with all the extra wind generated by the "fans" you don't need the Genny anyhow) and run on the main stays'l and main. The obvious benefit is that you get all that free electrical energy as a bonus.


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## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

This morning I was on the Delaware River just a few hundred yard of the Phila Int airport runway light jetty, when a huge Russian gargo plane took off. 

Close enough to see the tire treads.

I was gently bobbing along in a less than 5 knot breeze, when the Russians wake filled the sails and for a few minutes I was flying.

Forget adding a fan, get a Russian cargo plane.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Please tell me this clown is just clowning? Please? Somebody, anybody? Yes, you, you in the back with the GED............


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Does the term nitwit come to mind?!?!....


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## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

Die Thread, Die!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

It was until Empresa brought it back... UGH.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

seabreeze_97 said:


> Die Thread, Die!


I'll sure give you gentlemen a ton of credit---you've got a lot more patience than I could _ever _muster up.

BTW, did anyone finally point the OP in the direction of the nearest RV dealership?...........


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

RickLaPaz said:


> I'll sure give you gentlemen a ton of credit---you've got a lot more patience than I could _ever _muster up.
> 
> BTW, did anyone finally point the OP in the direction of the nearest RV dealership?...........


I don't know, but if we did, he can meet Cam there...


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

These people here must be the design engineers of Acme Co. that Wilie E. Coyote buys from.
He still can't catch the Roadrunner with all of the innovative stuff that he buys from Acme.


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## NCountry (May 25, 2006)

Hmmmmm...a fan....I have two teenage boys an 8 year old and a 2 month old. Could the same result be achieved by placing them all on the front of the boat and feeding them a high fiber diet supplemented with naval beans? 

(That should put an end to this thread!)


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

I remember this thread, it as BS then and I don't think it will or has improved with age.


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## empresa (Nov 8, 2006)

sorry... I thought this guy might still be around. I thought this was the funniest thread on the site


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

OK since this has yet again been resurected I'll throw in my 2 cent . Hows about a great big rubber band , no ,hold that . 2 great big rubber bands (redundancy don't cha know) case we snap one or somethin' . We set up a bloody gynormo-mungus fan off Diamond Shoals say oh duno , er like em 3000 ft or so in diameter blade span.Any poor bugger getting too close to the graveyard can just VHF the Coasties and in turn they can get the Navy out to twist up the rubber bands that power said gynormo-mungus fan and scoot poor wee vessel back oot te sea. I think that be best well much bester than havin to carry yur own gynormo-mungus fan all the time . Don't you ? Oh yeah It'll be great I can see it now. Pretty soon the entire coastline of the US will be peppered with Rubber Band Fan Farms ( I meant Double Rubber Band Fan Farms- redundancy dont cha know) . Then we can all just forget about beating the weather, current, tides ,clock, stars , compass , barrometer , vessel and crew into our will ( you know 'sailing' )to go from point A to B ."Cheating death yet again" we cry from the dock no more , no more . Alas poor sailboat you have met your match . Ladies and Gentlemen behold 

The Doubble Rubber Band On Shore Fan Farm 
(redundancy dont cha know )

man its gonna be great just you wait oh yeah the guy that started this is now most def driving a Bayliner




WORD


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## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

RB; I see you are from Vermont. Are you near Lake Champlain? I just sold my boat up there this summer and might be cruising up the canal for the winter. My old boat was in Charlotte.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Can't be done. It's Newton again... action:reaction.
A big fan on the back will blow the ship backwards, unless the sails bring all of the propelled air to a total, and utter stop.... then the ship does not move at all.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Rockter-

I believe the idea was to mount one on the bow, not the stern, and have it pull air in and blow it across the sails.... to generate lift and move the boat.... not to push the boat from behind. Might want to go back and re-read, or read, the whole thread. BTW, planes have been using propellors to move through the air for a long, long time.... and there are fan-propelled boats in the Everglades....

Again, you let your inability to read a thread and your inability to apply theoretical physics to a real world situation get in the way of posting anything resembling an intelligent answer.


Rockter said:


> Can't be done. It's Newton again... action:reaction.
> A big fan on the back will blow the ship backwards, unless the sails bring all of the propelled air to a total, and utter stop.... then the ship does not move at all.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

We have actually been employing this fan method for quite some time with good results, all these laws of physics notwithstanding. As an earlier post pointed out, one key is to run enough of them in series. Ours are mounted outboard on cantilevered outriggers, which can be folded in for docking manoeuvres. They can also pivot fore and aft as much as 30 degrees for apparent wind adjustments, as we sometime like to vary our point of sail for variety's sake (beam reaching everywhere can get somewhat tedious).

Another important design aspect, often overlooked by previous unsuccessful pioneers in this burgeoning field, is to ensure that the orientation of the fan blades and their direction of rotation is SUPPLEMENTAL to, rather than opposing, the coriolis effect. Obviously this requires that the apparatus be re-oriented when moving between hemispheres, but this impediment only affects a small number of sailors anyway. 

Others will be curious as to the performance advantage: It's no exageration to say that they are ample. In comparing observed speeds to the polars for our boat, we sometimes register velocities as much as 1/10 of a knot greater than predicted. Someone else pointed out the energy consumption issues, but we long ago resolved that obstacle by powering each fan with its very own Solar Stick. All in all we are pleased with these modifications and find they are well worth the tremendous effort, substantial cost, and modest inconvenience. To the skeptics, we say: "Just give fans a try!"


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

The "fan in front of boat theory" has been proven to be ineffective. I've invented a way to produce very low atmospheric pressure, concentrate it and contain in a storage cell. I then project it from the bow pulpit - directly in front of the headsail.

This drop in atmospheric pressure of course, merges with existing high pressure, creating very gusty winds - at the flick of a switch. I'm presently in the process of applying for a patent.


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## jerryrlitton (Oct 14, 2002)

pigslo said:


> To all you guys that speculate "if the fan was big enough" and other such speculations...wrong. ANY wind produced from an object on the boat (even from the hot air of surfesq) is subject to an equal and opposite effect in the opposite direction. I believe that was one the first laws of physics.
> Pigslo


I have seen this thread on and off here now for several weeks and never really thought I wanted/needed/dared to step in. But is keeps getting bigger and bigger etc so curiosity got the better of me. No way would it get this far right? Wrong. Lol Pigslo said it best followed by the quantum generator. In my opinion dual polyquad synchronized phasers may work also IF we had a stable source of those dylithium crystals. 
<O</O
Too freaking funny


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## ReverendMike (Aug 1, 2006)

The well-known problem with Dylithium crystals is that you invariably need to travel half-way across the universe just to get replacements. I think the Solar Stik *HAS* to be the way to go here!

(or perhaps an Improbability Drive?)


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Old Sailingdog never misses the chance of the personal attack.

I missed the word "forward".
Put the fan on the front then.
It'll work.
The boat will go faster.
Until the fuel runs out.
Better still is to take the sails down.
Newton again.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I thought they were the same thing: SolarStik = Improbability Drive. 


ReverendMike said:


> The well-known problem with Dylithium crystals is that you invariably need to travel half-way across the universe just to get replacements. I think the Solar Stik *HAS* to be the way to go here!
> 
> (or perhaps an Improbability Drive?)


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## ReverendMike (Aug 1, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> I thought they were the same thing: SolarStik = Improbability Drive.


Good one, but the 'Infinite Improbability Drive' actually requires a hot cup of tea to generate it's power, whereas the 'Solar Stik' actually made energy from nothing whatsoever IIRC.   

(edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_Improbability_Drive , the solar stick info is buried under pages of drivel that i refuse to attach the link to)


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Rockter-

It was an observation about your reading skills, not a personal attack... although you may choose to see it that way.


Rockter said:


> Old Sailingdog never misses the chance of the personal attack.
> 
> I missed the word "forward".
> Put the fan on the front then.
> ...


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

I need to hold a ruler under the lines so I don't mix them up, but the ruler keeps slipping on the screen and it scratches the surface. It's a Dell screen and very expensive. I tried reading all 13 pages of this "fan on the boat makes you go faster" posting, but I got cramp in my wrists.
I missed one word though, so I am not doing too bad.
Put the fan on the back of the boat and blow the air aft.
That'll work.
It drains the batteries though.
When you want to go backwards, take the sails down and turn the fan the other way. 
It all works best in flat calm I think. Like a hovercraft.

F = d{mu}/dt


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Rockter-

You could try making a custom CSS file that increases the line spacing for your browser. Many of the newer browsers have the option to include a css override file. If you want to try one, let me know via PM.

BTW, Swamp Airboats use a big fan on the back, as often seen in the Everglades. I believe USCGret. has one.



Rockter said:


> I need to hold a ruler under the lines so I don't mix them up, but the ruler keeps slipping on the screen and it scratches the surface. It's a Dell screen and very expensive. I tried reading all 13 pages of this "fan on the boat makes you go faster" posting, but I got cramp in my wrists.
> I missed one word though, so I am not doing too bad.
> Put the fan on the back of the boat and blow the air aft.
> That'll work.
> ...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I use a small two blade fan on the back of my boat to increase the boat speed when the wind is low or calm. I've seen many other boaters with this same set up. It's hooked up to a 13 hp diesel engine and it's mounted below the water line to blow water, not air. It works quite well.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Good one CapnHand! A fitting note to end the thread on, eh?


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

THE ENDTHE END


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

This thread will never die...


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Not as long as "last-word-sailingdog" helps it stay alive


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

TB-

You wound me... I don't know what you're talking about... 



TrueBlue said:


> Not as long as "last-word-sailingdog" helps it stay alive


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Why would anyone want this thread to end? It is by far the single most amusing topic on Sailnet. I personally look forward to reading how others have implemented and improved upon this revolutionary technology aboard their respective vessels. Long live the SAILING FAN !!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Didn't the trimaran in WaterWorld have a big wind turbine that popped out from the mast???


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

OMG! This post is hilarious!

Here is the irony: Today, hubby and I were working on the boat. He just brought out this 12V clip-on fan that he pulled out into the cockpit when we were taking a break. He informed me that we had it on the boat for a few months now, and how he forgot about it (could have used it for those muggy cruises, dangit!) I said, "Well baby, hook three of these suckers up when we hit the doldrums, and we can sail the main!" We laughed hysterically, as heat, dehydration, and silicone sealant on our skin made everything funny. So here it is, quality porch time, and fueled by a few beers for rehydration, wouldn't you know it? This post appears!

I am rolling, LMAO! This is one funny post! And how frigging ironic!

Chris 
US 30' Wu-Wei
http://www.diysailor.com


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Chris-

You've gotta stop sniffing the sealant...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailingdog said:


> Chris-
> 
> You've gotta stop sniffing the sealant...


I did not mean to- it just sticks to EVERYTHING! I am the master of silicone adhesive! Hell, I can make it look neat on the boat- perfect jobs. Yet, I find I end up COVERED in it- even the butt of my shorts... I don't frigging get it! (hell, I can even make the 5200 look pretty on the boat- yet it ends up all over me & the car at the end of the day!) Never bite off the cap of Gorilla or CA glue- they stick to your teeth, too. But the boat looks great! (Wu-Wei is out to get me- hell, when your boat looks better than you do!)

Chris


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

In recent weeks, I have received quite a few PMs from sailors who are intrigued by the SailFan(TM) concept. I don't find this surprising at all. What I do find surprising (though perhaps I should not given how steeped sailing is in tradition) is the reluctance of these sailors to post public comments revealing an interest in the SailFan(TM) on this "Could a Fan…" thread.

It seems many of the interested sailors fear public scorn if they express open interest in the SailFan(TM) concept. In some cases, those who had the courage to raise the topic in discussions with fellow sailors, have reported that they soon found themselves ostracized within their sailing communities. Some have even been threatened with expulsion from their yacht clubs if they continue to promote in any way this "heretical" concept. What a shame indeed that we sailors are so close-minded!! 

As some of you are perhaps aware, I am closely involved with the design and development of the prototype SailFan(TM). Previously I have not shared many specifics about this project because it remains in development. However, much progress has been made in recent months, so as the initial stages approach completion I will soon be able to reveal more details about this revolutionary development that someday may change how all of us sail our boats. Please stay tuned and feel free to contact me by PM if you do not care to show your interest pubicly. I understand your reluctance and pledge to keep all such communications confidential….


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Is someone is angling for an award from G- ?????? Hmmmm...


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

T34C said:


> Is someone is angling for an award from G- ?????? Hmmmm...


Yet another doubter weighs in.

Those of us out here on the cutting edge can take heart, by reminding ourselves how much scorn the marconi rig proponents must have borne in their day from the old square-riggers....


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## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

Well there's a nano technology that's going to compete with your Sailfan. 

Its a coating, which looks a lot like velvet, that is applied to the normal carbon sails, instead of taffeta. The action of the wind on the protruding fibres, which are made of piezoelectric plastic with a nano tech diode bridge at the base of each, is to generate a current that is taken off the insulated head and tack of the sail and used to charge batteries. 

When the wind dies, the current is reversed and a small micro processor distributes the power in such a way that the velvet fibres twitch in sequence, generating a controlled airflow to fill the sails, so providing boat propulsion.

In intermediate conditions, the process is self supporting and has the effect of reducing the drag on the sails an thus reducing drift and increasing pointing.

The sails are furled or reefed in the normal manner when the wind pipes up.

Patent pending.


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## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

Oh, and incidentally, the current can be modulated at higher frequency to either play music or perform fog horn duties.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Idiens said:


> Well there's a nano technology that's going to compete with your Sailfan.
> 
> Its a coating, which looks a lot like velvet, that is applied to the normal carbon sails, instead of taffeta. The action of the wind on the protruding fibres, which are made of piezoelectric plastic with a nano tech diode bridge at the base of each, is to generate a current that is taken off the insulated head and tack of the sail and used to charge batteries.
> 
> ...


Idiens,

You are dreaming. Sailors will never go for it.

Our SailFan(TM) is what sailors want (and, oh by the way, our patent application is also pending in 53 countries). And we are literally miles ahead, having already proven the technology with a nearly 5,000 mile ocean passage (the first leg of a circumnavigation demonstration project -- details to follow).

Please, take your fancy pants euro nano toy technology back to the drawing board. We don't need fog horns or MP3 players. We've got that covered with our amplifiers and Ipods.

Also, please don't forget to add (TM) whenever you refer to our SailFan(TM) technology in writing.


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## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

You'll never get your S-F (TM) thingy patented JR, it was tried at the beginning of the age of steam and patented then, along with the bendy wave riding boat. 

And anyway those solar stick-it people are taking up my patent on angling their solar panels to spin the stick to combine wind and solar power. Sadly, they didn't accept my suggestion to have direct drive to the propeller - but that's their loss.

Nano tech is the way to go, solar non-slip paint on the decks, plus furry-dynamic sails is the future of sail.

I may publish some of the new innovative genetic engineering hull designs soon, and that's a threat not a promise.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Many of you are aware of my affiliation with a revolutionary technology called "SailFan" (TM), which promises to fundamentally alter the way we sail our boats.

Despite doubts expressed by the likes of Idiens (above), we have pressed on with our development and have now completed extensive sea-trials of the SailFan technology. We are now pleased to report that all aspects of the technology have been proven, and full-scale production is near at hand.

But rather than toot our own horn, we have decided to share with you the letter below, from none other than Sir Byron Plymptom, the famous British adventurer, who agreed to sea-trial our technology on an extended voyage from Europe to South America. We feel Sir Byron's testimony speaks volumes about the future of sailing -- a future that is destined to incorporate the heralded SailFan technology on every sailboat from the modest day cruiser up to the mega-yacht.



> Dear Mr. Pollard,
> 
> I'm writing from Rio de Janeiro, where we are presently tied stern-to at the Royal Yacht Squadron facilities. _Windless_ has generated quite the attention here, even with a harbour full of sleek ocean racers vying for spectators' attention. More on that later.
> 
> ...


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

Classic, Thanks John


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

JRP—

Shouldn't that be the s/y WINDBAG???


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

John, dude, that is one epic spew. I'm honestly humbled.


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## ssneade (Nov 30, 2008)

didn't wile e coyote try that? as i remember it worked great, 'till he ran out of cord......


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## ssneade (Nov 30, 2008)

look, it's simple. just hire an aircraft carrier to follow you around. have all the f-14's turned with their engines facing your boat. chain them down to the flight deck, and then have them kick in the afterburners. you will have all the wind you would ever need.

is dacron fireproof?


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## LookingForCruiser (Feb 7, 2007)

I like the idea of Sailfan, but I can't carry all that battery weight to power it. I was wondering, can I use the excess wind of the Sailfan to power a wind generator, and get rid of my batteries & excessively noisy solar panels?


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## fullkeel7 (Apr 16, 2008)

Sorry guys but this SailFan stuff, abeit on a more sophisticated scale, is actually a slightly modified version of an old technology that I developed during my junior year at Eau Gallie High School. It was developed purely out of the necessity to decrease high levels of humidity in the air here in Central Florida and to increase my personal level of comfort while attending class (no air conditioning at the time) during the mid sixties.

Although my area of concern was not as large as those of SailFan, the technology I developed was similar but vastly less complicated. Instead of an array of battery banks, solar and wind to generate power, I devised an adequate two cell power source. My system consisted of two eight ounce Idaho potatoes, four probes of dissimilar metals, associated wiring (coiled around a number 2 pencil as a space saving device) that supplied power to a small cooling motor I'd stollen from my dad's car CB radio. That motor's fan supplied the needed air to blow over a tray of ice cubes (thank you Mrs. Rottancrouch in the cafeteria) housed in a specially designed insulated compartment just prior to being injected into the drier bottle I'd taken from my parents bedroom air conditioner. That dehumidified cooled air was then passed thru a network of ducts fitted from the arms and legs of my younger sister's Chatty Cathy into a slotted air diffuser from our neighbor's VW bus. 

The bad news was just about everyone I loved was pissed at me and all the kids at school made fun of me because of the extra large pants I had to wear to house all this equipment in, made my butt look like two baggers having a fight in my skivvies. The good news is that the long entrenched rash went away and I no longer left that telltale sweaty wet spot in my desk chair after class. Because I could sit and learn in relative comfort, I truely attribute this technology in forming the man I am today. It just does my heart good to see this kind of technological advance expanded to the benefit all of mankind. Kudos.

I loved science class.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

This all sounding like a Wily E. Coyote Idea while chasing the RoadRunner Cartoon.


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## redwoodforest (May 21, 2009)

I own the patent to a device that is materially infringed by SailFan(tm), all those that have posted on this thread and are encouraging use of SailFan(tm) are hereby served notice for contributory infringement. If anyone wants to buy my wonderful, magical, mystical, amazing, energy-efficient device, please let me know


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## CanDrac (Apr 6, 2008)

Most sailboats already have one such fan. It's just that it's better to put it underwater and facing aft. We like to call it propeller!


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## mgmhead (Jan 14, 2007)

I think if you placed the fan at the stern, positioned below the water line, it would provide the best possible propulsion.


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## mgmhead (Jan 14, 2007)

Sorry aobut that CanDrac, ya beat me...but we had a similar thought.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Well if you buy the fan from Acme Fan Co. that wylie E. Coyote deals with you may get a fan that would work... But then I would be watching out for anvils or boulders that may be falling toward your boat...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I attended an auction of marine equipment about 6 months ago and bought a strange looking device consisting of multiple heavy walled stainless tubes supporting multiple fans with stainless blades. It seemed new with no visible signs of wear! One of the substantial brackets was stamped with "BS.(TM)"
Until today, when I chanced upon this thread, I had no idea I had bought a SailFan (tm)
I am willing to sell it for whatever I can get!!
Happy New Year.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

klausn said:


> I attended an auction of marine equipment about 6 months ago and bought a strange looking device consisting of multiple heavy walled stainless tubes supporting multiple fans with stainless blades. It seemed new with no visible signs of wear! One of the substantial brackets was stamped with "BS.(TM)"
> Until today, when I chanced upon this thread, I had no idea I had bought a SailFan (tm)
> I am willing to sell it for whatever I can get!!
> Happy New Year.


That must be one of the unauthorized, patent-pending-infringing, pirated versions. They sometimes come up on the black markets. They do not work as advertised.

You'll have to wait patiently for the authentic versions to come out on the market. The latest information has them arriving April 1.

P.S. Welcome to Sailnet!


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

If you put a fan in front of a sailboat, wouldn't he or she be in danger of drowning or being run over by the celebrity owner's paid crew or guests? It seems the fan would be in grave danger of being longitudinally keelhauled, that is along the long axis of the boat, especially with an old-timey full keel design. 

This of course doesn't apply to catamarans, since the fan, if wearing a life jacket, would simply likely bob along between the hulls and under the bridgedeck (the frame between the hulls ) of the famous person's boat, assuming normal clearances, and the fan could wave at the celebrity and crew as he drifted out under the stern. 

That is, unless the fan had the misfortune to be caught by a wave and slammed up against the underside of the bridgedeck/frame. 

In that case, the fan's journey under the frame to make a small wave up to fame's bridge would be shortly abridged by a large wave under fame's frame.

The moral of course is to never swim under a bridge over troubled waters.


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## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

They work very well when placed on the bow. It took two fans ,one at three foot and one at seven to give me hull speed at slack tide.
I run DC motors with wind and solar generater systems .it takes eight gel batteries to power most of the day and some into the night.
system has worked well for three years now and thinking of the three fan up grade soon . Hope this helps out .


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## CapTim (Aug 18, 2009)

... wow ...


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## Matvolver (Sep 27, 2010)

Ahh, John, I'm glad I finally found your product! You see, I was being flummoxed by an inadvertant byproduct of the Flux Capacitor I'm having problems promoting. It seems that when you fiddle with the space-time continuum to propel a vehicle, it cuts out any wind in the immediate vicinity of said vehicle! While this, of course, isn't a problem for the hovercar it was originally developed for, it seems that sailors are a closed-minded group who just have to be able to see their sails out in all their glory - even though they might be only for purely aesthetic reasons!

Please contact me at your leisure to work out a contract bid - I am eagerly awaiting your response!

Cheers,
Matthew Magelssen


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## JagsBch (Jan 19, 2007)

Could a fan in front of a sailboat improve sailing? 

I don't know if it is the gin, pain pills for the root canal I had today or what But the question had me lmao.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Matvolver said:


> Ahh, John, I'm glad I finally found your product! You see, I was being flummoxed by an inadvertant byproduct of the Flux Capacitor I'm having problems promoting. It seems that when you fiddle with the space-time continuum to propel a vehicle, it cuts out any wind in the immediate vicinity of said vehicle! While this, of course, isn't a problem for the hovercar it was originally developed for, it seems that sailors are a closed-minded group who just have to be able to see their sails out in all their glory - even though they might be only for purely aesthetic reasons!
> 
> Please contact me at your leisure to work out a contract bid - I am eagerly awaiting your response!
> 
> ...


Matthew,

My apologies, but we are now so heavily back-ordered that we can't promise delivery on any new individual orders until well into 2015. We scored a big contract with Catalina Yachts, not just for their new boats but as retrofit to all prior production. Seems they would like to see if our SailFan technology can finally get their boats moving under wind power alone.

We appreciate everyone's patience as we work through this backlog. Please watch for updates in coming months.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

JohnRPollard said:


> Matthew,
> 
> My apologies, but we are now so heavily back-ordered that we can't promise delivery on any new individual orders until well into 2015. We scored a big contract with Catalina Yachts, not just for their new boats but as retrofit to all prior production. Seems they would like to see if our SailFan technology can finally get their boats moving under wind power alone.
> 
> We appreciate everyone's patience as we work through this backlog. Please watch for updates in coming months.


Well maybe you wouldn't be so heavily backlogged if you weren't running off to Asia to crew on the boat with your budette Tango Dancing Woman!


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

SailorMitch said:


> ... But that will slow the boat down, so.......uummmmmm....... maybe just put all that money into some decent sails?


Or, simply buy a power boat! One of my favorite parts of sailing is when I shut the boats stinkpot off, as she silently heels over and turns into a sailboat. If you are trying to get somewhere fast, you've got the wrong boat!


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

Started laughing so hard it induced a coughing jag that resulted in an asthma attack. Now that I have that under control (you gotta love drugs), I have a question: 

Where do you plug in the fan?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

At the dock, in the shore power post... you just need a really long cord.


billyruffn said:


> Started laughing so hard it induced a coughing jag that resulted in an asthma attack. Now that I have that under control (you gotta love drugs), I have a question:
> 
> Where do you plug in the fan?


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## ssneade (Nov 30, 2008)

c'mon guys. yer not thinkin' green. several of these placed strategically around yer vessel gives you better weight distribution and allows you to do your part to protect the environment......

not to mention the performance enhancing qualities......


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

We have boats with giant fans on them. They are called "Air Boats" and they operate in the swamp lands of Florida, Alabamba, Mississippi and Louisiana.
They are a bit top heavy and you have to be careful when making a turn with them..
Note: These fans are mounted on the back of the boat and blow aft.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

billyruffn said:


> Started laughing so hard it induced a coughing jag that resulted in an asthma attack. Now that I have that under control (you gotta love drugs), I have a question:
> 
> Where do you plug in the fan?


BillyR,

Sorry about the coughing fit.

If you were asking about the the SailFan (TM) technology, I must have forgotten to mention that it is self-propelled, so does not require an external power source. That is one of the many beauties of the product.

Also, for those concerned about noise, the SailFan's foils have been re-engineeered so they are virtually inaudible. You'll only hear the wind in the sails and the water on the hull as you point up to within a few degrees of true, and pass all the other boats that are slogging to windward.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

ssneade said:


> c'mon guys. yer not thinkin' green. several of these placed strategically around yer vessel gives you better weight distribution and allows you to do your part to protect the environment......
> not to mention the performance enhancing qualities......


You could even make them swivel 180 degrees so that they would suck and blow!


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## Matvolver (Sep 27, 2010)

billyruffn said:


> Started laughing so hard it induced a coughing jag that resulted in an asthma attack. Now that I have that under control (you gotta love drugs), I have a question:
> 
> Where do you plug in the fan?


Ahh, Billy, here's the wonder of the flux capacitor for you - since it is directly mounted to the V6 from a DeLorean, you simply replace your current engine package. Although, several people have commented on a scruffy-looking fellow showing up and commenting on how he hates manure. Have been unable to locate said individual to ask him to stop harassing my customers, need to hire a PI to track him down. Anyone know if Thomas Magnum might be available?


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