# St. Thomas & St John worth visiting by boat when in the BVI?



## preservedkillick (Feb 7, 2008)

Hi everyone,

I'll be in the BVI for two weeks next month. My second trip. The charter company's limits include St Thomas and St. John. Are these islands fun to visit? Is it worth the hassle of dealing with customs? Someplace new would be fun. 

-PK


----------



## seaojoe (May 4, 2002)

St John is a great stop. From beaches, bars, diving, hiking and general a good place to hang. you can refuel, water and provision without angst located across from customs at Caneel shipyard
Customs is ez. there's an anchorage on the starboard side of customs creek that you can anchor for up to 3 hours. Next to customs, about 2 doors up is 'uncle joe's' ribs/chicken. good local stop. for fine dining, there are several places. in the same area of customs, fuel and national service dock is a dinghy dock, and across the street is Morgans Mango, great food. there are several other places. depends on your likes/dislikes. shout for more info.
have fun. C O Joe


----------



## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

And Charlotte Amalie on St. Thomas is the "big city", which I kind of enjoy in cruising, though not every night.

Cruz Bay on St John was fine as i recall.


Caveat: I've only been once, in 1977. We had 3 42-footers, 19 prep school kids from New England, and 5 "adults", meaning us 20-somethings.

We sailed out of Charlotte Amalie, to the nearby Islands, stopped in at Red Hook, then Cruz Bay, then Jost Van Dyke to enter with Brit customs, then Road Town Tortola, then the Baths, then Trellis Bay, then finally Virgin Gorda, then made our way back to Charlotte A. It was a hoot, more fun with the damn high school kids than without them, as it turned out.

So that 's how it was in 1977. But it made an impression, since I remember all our ports almost 40 years later...


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I hope I don't offend anyone, but St. T is one of the seediest places in the US/BVIs. Downtown Charlotte Amelie feels like a lawless third world country, especially when the cruise ships are not in harbor. If not for the cheap flights, I would never return. I still may fly direct to Tortola next time, I dislike it so much. 

St. John's is beautiful and literally right next door to Tortola. However, I have been reluctant to go through the bother of clearing in and out of customs, just to visit one particular island. BVI has plenty of their own and I've seen no reason to add bureaucracy to the middle of my vacation.

I did not start visiting the Virgin Islands until much later, but my wife has been going since the 70s. From the stories, it has all changed substantially.


----------



## Lochmoigh (Aug 28, 2014)

Minnewaska, I am guessing it has changed for the worse?


----------



## RainDog (Jun 9, 2009)

I agree with Minnewaska. I really found Saint Thomas unpleasant. I loved Saint John.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Lochmoigh said:


> Minnewaska, I am guessing it has changed for the worse?


Not entirely. Just substantially more visited and built out. In the BVI for example, there would have been real beach side local shacks. I still find them in out islands in the Bahamas. All BVI beachside places are technically modern now. Some, like Foxy's, have straw tiki roofs and sand floors, but they were professionally designed to. The big screen TV is a dead giveaway.


----------



## preservedkillick (Feb 7, 2008)

Thanks for the info everyone. Definitely going to check out St John. Sounds like fun.


----------



## RainDog (Jun 9, 2009)

Also Saint John is better visited sans boat in some ways, so can fly or ferry in there before or after a BVI charter and thus avoid some hassle with clearing in a boat.


----------



## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> I hope I don't offend anyone, but St. T is one of the seediest places in the US/BVIs. Downtown Charlotte Amelie feels like a lawless third world country, especially when the cruise ships are not in harbor. If not for the cheap flights, I would never return. I still may fly direct to Tortola next time, I dislike it so much.
> 
> St. John's is beautiful and literally right next door to Tortola. However, I have been reluctant to go through the bother of clearing in and out of customs, just to visit one particular island. BVI has plenty of their own and I've seen no reason to add bureaucracy to the middle of my vacation.
> 
> I did not start visiting the Virgin Islands until much later, but my wife has been going since the 70s. From the stories, it has all changed substantially.


I'm very offended and will kick your butt should your ever set foot here!

Not really, just kidding! I don't go downtown much myself because there's nothing there for me. It's oriented towards cruise ship passengers during the day. The architecture is very interesting along with the history. Unfortunately most people, and I don't want to offend anyone, only see the waterfront from a packed taxi van chugging through traffic trying to catch a ferry. Or they spend the night at a hotel in downtown and want to walk someplace to eat or drink after dark, not an activity I would suggest... There is much of St Thomas that I am very comfortable in at any time of the day or night, but that's for another time. Many towns I've spent time in have areas I wouldn't visit during the night or day, in the USA...

St John is beautiful with numerous undeveloped beaches and $15 mooring balls. If one is looking to go ashore to visit the beachbar ala BVI, St John is NOT for you. If one wants to sit in a quiet anchorage to watch the stairs and not listen to amplified music from shore, St John IS for you.


----------



## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

While we have a local on the thread - what do you think of this mosquito bourne illness? Chikungunya ... I think. Do you see a lot of this? Panic or ignore?

I will be there for two weeks next February.


----------



## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

Assuming I'm the loco, I mean local, you're referring to.... 

Well, how to answer the Chikun problem???? My wife and I have taken reasonable measures to avoid it. Those would include, avoiding mosquito prone places, wearing lots of repellent with the highest percentage of DEET we can find, wearing pants and long sleeves along with avoiding areas that we know are hotspots. That said, we have been lucky so far and are healthy. Statistics for this epidemic are worthless IMHO because there is no treatment or benefit at all in contacting a doctor, thus the vast majority of cases are never documented. When the CDC started publishing statistics in the paper of 500 verified cases on St Thomas, I personally knew over 40 people that had been infected at that time. There are about 50,000 people on the Island and I may know a few hundred. I'm comfortable guessing that 1 in 6 residents had/have it. With that ratio you can see the published statistics are way off. 

That being said there was a very detailed article describing a phenomenon known as "herd immunity". In essence, once the majority have been infected, are no longer contagious and are immune, it will go away. The CDC believes the tide turned awhile ago. I agree with my unscientific data gathering from acquaintances. 

If I were coming to visit, I would use some caution, move elsewhere if you find mosquitoes around you, Google Chinkungunya so you know what the symptoms are if you get it and apply bug spray with DEET.

Friends that have been infected report hugely varied responses in symptoms, duration of fever and relapse pain. A friend who had the high fever for a couple of days with rash had very bad joint pains for 48hrs and then returned to normal with zero problems after. Another friend was down and out with fever and such severe pain that walking was nearly impossible for nearly 2 weeks. Symptoms improved gradually for a couple of weeks and then the intense pain came back with a vengeance. OTC pain meds and fluids are the standard treatment. I DO not want to get it!!! I've spoken at length with friends and relatives that are scheduled to visit in the next 45 days. They are still coming. I think spending time on a boat in a breezy anchorage or in air conditioned buildings greatly reduces your risk factors.


----------



## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

preservedkillick said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'll be in the BVI for two weeks next month. My second trip. The charter company's limits include St Thomas and St. John. Are these islands fun to visit? Is it worth the hassle of dealing with customs? Someplace new would be fun.
> 
> -PK


PK--In a word, they're not worth the bother, even remotely.


----------



## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Thank you FarCry for that information. I am duly cautious.


----------



## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

No problem Sal. This is more detailed:
- News - Virgin Islands Daily News
- News - Virgin Islands Daily News
http://stthomassource.com/content/c...20/chikungunya-another-sign-climate-change-vi
http://stthomassource.com/content/n...ikungunya-cases-turn-corner-st-thomas-st-john

I think caution and taking precautions are the correct attitude rather than panic or ignoring higher risk situations.


----------



## captainjay (Oct 11, 2007)

Sal Paradise said:


> Thank you FarCry for that information. I am duly cautious.


Seriously?? I would skip everything on Tortola for a couple days around St John.










Jay


----------



## CLOSECALL (Dec 11, 2012)

If you've got two weeks I think it may be worth the effort to spend a few days in the waters of St. John. St. John is a beautiful place and everything is better from the water. Checking in and out can be a hassle but if you stay a few days, what's a few hours lost standing in line? 

If I go this winter, I may try it myself. I've sailed around Tortola plenty of times by now.


----------



## captainjay (Oct 11, 2007)

Thought I would throw up a few more pictures of the Detroit side of the Virgin Islands
































































I have more.


----------



## Charlton (Oct 13, 2014)

I used to live on St. Thomas and I agree with all that has been said. However there were secluded spots along the north shore only accessible by boat that were as close to pristine as you can get. That may have changed over the years but might be worth a look. Also if you are into SCUBA diving one of the best spots I found was just off the east side of Hans Lollick island. There is an excellent wall that goes well past 100' deep and is an excellent drift dive - or it was when I lived there.


----------



## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

captainjay,why would you show some of the beautiful places to visit in the USVI? Next are you going to tell everyone about your favorite fishing hole? If the contributors here have decided that the USVI is an evil dump, let them believe!!! There will be more room for you and I around here...


----------



## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Fantastic pictures!!


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

captainjay said:


> Seriously?? I would skip everything on Tortola for a couple days around St John.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you willing to give up this location? I know FarCry prefers you don't. 

Still hoping to get down there this winter. I'm thinking of 2 or 3 days at anchor on St. Johns.

Besides Caneel/Cruz, what are the favs? Secluded is fine. Hiking would be a real plus. A beach shack with a cold beer from an Igloo is great too.


----------



## captainjay (Oct 11, 2007)

Maho Bay on St John


----------



## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Got back from a charter two weeks ago that started in St. Thomas and ended in Vieques. Picked up a mooring at Christmas Cove the first night and the next morning got an early start and stopped at Buck Island before heading to Culebra. Loved the snorkel at Buck Island. Of course we got there before the tour boats did and had the place to ourselves. Just us and a half dozen Turtles.
As far as Chickunuga(?) We used Deet sprays and did not have too much of a problem on the boat. We also stayed four days on Vieques and always wore long pants and shirts in the evening. Seemed to have got out unscathed except for a few bites but, nothing worse from them.


----------



## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Are you willing to give up this location? I know FarCry prefers you don't.
> 
> Still hoping to get down there this winter. I'm thinking of 2 or 3 days at anchor on St. Johns.
> 
> Besides Caneel/Cruz, what are the favs? Secluded is fine. Hiking would be a real plus. A beach shack with a cold beer from an Igloo is great too.


Why would I not want to let people know where Maho is? Or Francis? Or Leinster? Or Lameshure? Or Salt Pond? Or....

When I do briefings for CYOA I tell all of the guests about St John anchorages and hiking trails if they are interested in that too. Book a trip and I will fill you in.


----------



## ChristinaM (Aug 18, 2011)

We just spent about a month between St John & St Thomas. Stick to St John. We enjoyed bits of St Thomas but I wouldn't bother on a charter.

As per FarCry: Maho, Francis, Leinster, Lameshure, Salt Pond.

Add Waterlemon & Coral Bay. We did Hawkesnest instead of Maho but it's all close enough to dinghy around.

For hiking: Salt Pond/Lameshure were probably best. Ram's Head at Salt Pond is a beautiful view and not too long if it's hot. You can also hike up to the eco-resort on a nice trail. Lameshure was a little too sweaty yesterday. We headed towards the petroglyphs but didn't make it there. Lovely sandy beach in Little Lameshure.

Snorkelling: between Little & Great Lameshure (Yawzki? point). E shore of Great Lameshur. Along the rocks E of Salt Pond. There's a red SCUBA mooring ball on a rock just S of Salt Pond that's shallow enough to snorkel. Also several off of Little St John are close enough to dinghy from Christmas Cove if it's calm (do watch for current/waves but the overhangs in the coral are neat). I found the Dogs & Indians in the BVIs better snorkelling but saw more large sealife on St John (tons of turtles, rays, remoras, squid).

Heard good things about Waterlemon but apparently you need to be on the outside of the little cay for the best snorkelling. Did see lots of turtles & rays there even on the "bad" side.

Coral Bay is a cute little spot but also happens to have a decent grocery store if you're running short on stuff and don't want to return to civilization. Only complaint is that I accidentally bought gluten-free cookies because the box looked so good. Skinny Legs has St John Brewery beer if you need a microbrew infusion to counteract the rum.

There are only 6 mooring balls in Salt Pond. It's worth trying to get in but leave time to get to Lameshur or Coral Bay if you have to.

The only downside I found to St John was that it's mostly less protected than Norman, Cooper, North Sound, etc. Check out the swells and then decide whether you want to be on the south or north shore. Waterlemon then Great Lameshur worked well for us with non-boater guests who get sea sick easily.


----------



## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

We have been to St.Thomas 13 or 14 times visiting St.John about the same. We have stayed in Frederiksted and done some great diving. But we never really got into the real island swing of things until we chartered from Road-town Tortola, BVI. We spent 8 days doing what we wanted and sailing the saint Frances.










So, All i'm saying is you should see all that you can as soon as you can. The whole island chain is wonderful, But SABA, The Dog,s the Indians, Big harbor at Jost, the Baths, Bitterend, Spanish town, The Rone, Soggy dollar, We had a blast. Trellis Full moon party with the burning iron figures, the sunsets are fantastic throughout the island. i think we have decided to find a way to go back to the island for a 2 or 3 year adventure. Not sure if we are going to take our boat from South Carolina or pay someone to sail it there for us. sorry to ramble it's just an amazing part of the world .
Go Now.

Cheers,










Beautiful View's










GO NOW










From the dock at SABA Rock at the Better end and Brittish Virgin Gorda.
GO NOW


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

ltgoshen said:


> .....i think we have decided to find a way to go back to the island for a 2 or 3 year adventure......


I share your enthusiasm for an extended time in the future. I assume you can get around this by returning to the USVI or heading further down the chain for a bit, but the BVI seem to have fairly restrictive limits on time spent by transients. 30 days max.

My guess is, they don't really want people trying to stay at anchor on a budget. One or two weeks of blowing the whole jackpot and make room for the next.


----------



## ChristinaM (Aug 18, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> the BVI seem to have fairly restrictive limits on time spent by transients. 30 days max.


Nope. You can go to Road Town and request an extension for up to 6 months near the end of your 30 days. Be prepared to spend half the day sitting in the Immigration Office to do it (Immigration & Labour, not the customs office). You'll also need to temporarily import your boat. That's about $200 and you can do it when you check in or later on at a customs office.

When we did our extensions (Dec 2014):
Officer: "Why do you want to stay longer?"
Us: "It's nice and we'd like to see more of it."
Officer: "Have you imported your boat?"
Us: "Yes, here's the paperwork."
Officer: "How long do you want to stay?"
Us: "End of February"
Officer: "OK, go pay $10 each to the cashier."

We have met one couple who had issues with customs & immigration from going back & forth between the USVI and BVIs but that seems to be a case of a cranky officer, not an actual issue with the rules. There are mixed opinions on getting another 30 days by leaving the BVIs and going to the USVIs for a bit but the consensus seems to be that it usually works but isn't technically legit. I believe the couple with the issue had their 2nd entry restricted to what would've been 30 days from the first entry.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

ChristinaM said:


> Nope. You can go to Road Town and request an extension for up to 6 months near the end of your 30 days. ......


Right, that's what I meant by some exception. Six months is still well less than the few years I was responding to. But spending time along all the leewards to deal with these limitations is not a terrible sentence.

Also, I will bet, if you don't seem to have any money to spend, they will not be as receptive.  Cynicism.


----------



## ChristinaM (Aug 18, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Also, I will bet, if you don't seem to have any money to spend, they will not be as receptive.  Cynicism.


Oddly they didn't ask about money. We were in cruisers clothes and disgustingly sweaty from wandering all over town to try to find the office. All they seemed to care about was that we wouldn't work. Or maybe they just wanted our stinky bodies out of their office & that was the quickest way to get rid of us  We paid for about 1 mooring ball & 1 lunch per month while we were. I think you'd get tired of the constant attempts to separate tourists from their dollars before the 6 months was up anyway.

I'd assumed they wouldn't want to be in the BVIs/USVIs during hurricane season but I suppose people do it. If you're American you could probably get away with alternating between the BVIs and USVIs for 6 months at a time, though personally I'd get the itch to at least go to St Maarten or Puerto Rico.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

ChristinaM said:


> Oddly they didn't ask about money. We were in cruisers clothes and disgustingly sweaty from wandering all over town to try to find the office.


Therefore, you looked like all the other cruisers with money. If you showed up wearing one of those surplus t-shirts with the wrong superbowl winning team, you would probably be denied. 



> .....personally I'd get the itch to at least go to St Maarten or Puerto Rico.


Both are on the absolute must do list for us. Sail down from New England in the Fall, start in the Spanish VI, then to the USVI, then BVI, then St. Martin, then back to New England for hurricane season in the Spring and day sail New England all summer. What could be better.


----------



## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> Sail down from Beaufort, SC in the Fall, start in the Spanish VI, then to the USVI, then BVI, then St. Martin, then back to the Low-Country for hurricane season in the Spring and day sail Charleston to Savannah all summer. What could be better.


This is what I'm thinking would work for us. But, I may pay a capt to move my C&C30 MK1 down to St. Thomas and we would sail her back.

Wonder how much that would cost some to move my boat from Beaufort SC to St Thomas USVI?


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Hey there, you can't quote stuff I didn't say!  

The guys I know that pay to have their boats taken from RI to VIs pay approx $12k to $20k, all in. Depends in crew size. Min is 3 IMO. Airfare, hotels on layover for flights, etc.


----------



## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

Yes, $15K is the rate I've heard for that trip on bigger, faster boats. Not sure if a 30' might actually cost more because of time.


----------



## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> Hey there, you can't quote stuff I didn't say!
> 
> The guys I know that pay to have their boats taken from RI to VIs pay approx $12k to $20k, all in. Depends in crew size. Min is 3 IMO. Airfare, hotels on layover for flights, etc.


Why not put it on a ship in Newport and have it dropped off in St Thomas in about five days for the same price. It will arrive in one piece and without the wear and tear of having a crew sail it to St. Thomas? Just asking.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

mbianka said:


> Why not put it on a ship in Newport and have it dropped off in St Thomas in about five days for the same price. It will arrive in one piece and without the wear and tear of having a crew sail it to St. Thomas? Just asking.


That's a good point. I believe the price is the upper end of that estimate, depending on the square footage of the boat.

The hassle is that they only go back and forth a few times, so one of their windows has to work for you. You also need to coordinate getting the boat to them and meeting them to take it back on the other end. Not a huge issue, perhaps, but a crew takes her from slip to slip.


----------



## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> The guys I know that pay to have their boats taken from RI to VIs pay approx $12k to $20k, all in. Depends in crew size. Min is 3 IMO. Airfare, hotels on layover for flights, etc.


Wow!! way over what I was expecting... my wife would have my butt. I will just continue to charter the BVI. At least until we retire and move onto the boat full-time. 
I will sail my own boat over there when I can get everything paid off. Looking like 2018 in the fall. I am 6 years into my 10 year plan. still on track.
I look forward to Visiting St. Thomas and St. John with my own boat.
Wow. $20 Thousand Dollars? That's like a major up-fit or a year worth of sailing kitty.
Thanks for the incite.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

ltgoshen said:


> Wow!! way over what I was expecting... my wife would have my butt. I will just continue to charter the BVI. At least until we retire and move onto the boat full-time.
> I will sail my own boat over there when I can get everything paid off. Looking like 2018 in the fall. I am 6 years into my 10 year plan. still on track.
> I look forward to Visiting St. Thomas and St. John with my own boat.
> Wow. $20 Thousand Dollars? That's like a major up-fit or a year worth of sailing kitty.
> Thanks for the incite.


We've drawn the same conclusion. Add to that the wear and tear, plus dockage, etc and it makes no sense unless you are spending serious time. At most, we would get a few weeks aboard all winter right now. Bareboating is not only less expensive, but less stressful.

I was tempted by this deal once. A delivery skipper I know well had agreed to take it to BVI for free, in exchange for being able to use it there when we were not around. He would either have had to pay crew to help or offer them some BVI time with him for free. It was tempting. Good deal for him, as he essentially have 5 months of bareboat vacation at nearly no cost. For me, I would have some were and tear and some marina charges. We never pulled the trigger. Bareboating is still less stressful.


----------

