# How to go for 1 or 2 year cruise?



## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

Hello everyone, Im a long time reader of this forum but never really post anything. I in a point in my life where I considere taking 1 or 2 year off to travel and clear my head and look for new opportunity and horizon. 

I am new to sailling, I have a Tanzer 7.5 that i bought 2 years ago and i have been sailling the st-laurence river in Québec city for 2 years now. The river is fun to sail but can also be challenging with the 20' tide that we have.

I would like to go cruising for 1 year or 2, got some money aside +/-75k. What would you suggest I do. I look at different option. I shop for a 28 to 35' boat around 20 to 30k. I wonder if I should cross the atlantic from halifax to azores than go to carrabean or cross form Florida to carrabean. I have zero open water experience I read alot on the subject.

English is my secong language so excuse the many grammatical error that i probably did.

Im looking for guidance, idea, tips on where should I start if I want to go cruising.

Thank you!


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Good plan. Go south, dude. Warm water, palm trees and nekkid women. If you can't find yourself there... it will be grim... 
I would sail relatively close to the shore until you get to Florida. Standard Thorny Path route from there.


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

Yeah south is a good idea, I was wondering if buying a boat already there (carrabean) is a good idea? 

Is it too expensive outfitting a boat overthere? Would you advice against it?


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## azguy (Jul 17, 2012)

Buy a boat in Florida, maybe a Catalina 30, spend a few months doing local runs and doing the necessary repairs/upgrades and head south


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

LaVarlope said:


> Yeah south is a good idea, I was wondering if buying a boat already there (carrabean) is a good idea?
> 
> Is it too expensive outfitting a boat overthere? Would you advice against it?


If you can find something you like that is already there, I would go for it. Depending on where that boat is it may be more or less costly than outfitting it in Canada or US, but usually not by much. Try to find a boat that already has what you need. Much cheaper option most of the time.


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

azguy said:


> Buy a boat in Florida, maybe a Catalina 30, spend a few months doing local runs and doing the necessary repairs/upgrades and head south


I was under the impression after reading many threads about bluewater boats and the like that hunter/catalina/beneteau were cheap coastal cruiser and should be avoid if considering taking on the sea.

But i like the idea of not spending all my money on a boat that is way to good for what I want to do and where I want to go. I might want to go further after a while so that is why a was looking at albin vega, alberg and the like...

If i go with your suggestion of test sailing a boat in florida then traverse to the carribean. What is the ideal time frame from the purchase of the boat to the crossing ?


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

LaVarlope said:


> I was under the impression after reading many threads about bluewater boats and the like that hunter/catalina/beneteau were cheap coastal cruiser and should be avoid if considering taking on the sea.


Lots of people cruise the Caribbean in Catalinas and Benes. I would not automatically cross them from your list unless you really want to make long ocean passages. And if I was a sailor experienced in deep sea sailing I would not be afraid to take a well equipped Catalina 30 across Atlantic. Many such passages were made by sailors.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Here is a nice boat in Florida I would not mind buying for coastal cruising:
Nebe Cape 28 Blue Water Cruiser Built in South Africa The Islands Are Calling | eBay


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

LaVarlope,

A nice sounding plan! We know a few people who did multi-year cruising and some doing half year cruising. I called it, "retirement on the installment plan".

You might consider looking for a Nor'Sea 27.We lived aboard ours (Jill and I) from 1996 to 2008 full time. We cruised from 04 to late 08 down the west coast. They are not as low a cost as many, but more capable.

BUT, the beauty of the boat is that it is capable of circumnavigating (many have) yet can be stored on a trailer to be towed (by the owner) cross country when wanting to go to weather at 55 MPH. Also when not cruising, it's VERY low cost to store close to home, even when far from water.

Just an idea!

Greg


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

A Nor'Sea for sale - very reasonable price:
NOR'SEA 27 sailboat for sale by owner - SAILBOATDATA.COM


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## azguy (Jul 17, 2012)

I like the 10' beam and the shallow draft here:

1989 Erickson 32-200 sailboat for sale in Florida

and the price here:

1988 Catalina 30-T sailboat for sale in Florida

Plus, add $10K for personal outfitting, sails, etc so your time away is spent sailing and not waiting for repairs IMHO. I think if you are mainly island hoping and not crossing the Atlantic (you could) these are solid bets..


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

How are those 27 pocket cruiser? I own a 25' tanzer and cannot imagine living on it for a long period of time.

I know that they have more headroom and better function. They must be confortable for you to live on it for 12 years. was yours the aft cabin model?

That nor'sea is not to far from where i live I could go look at it. What should I be worried about and look for??


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

LaVarlope said:


> How are those 27 pocket cruiser? I own a 25' tanzer and cannot imagine living on it for a long period of time.
> 
> I know that they have more headroom and better function. They must be comfortable for you to live on it for 12 years. was yours the aft cabin model?
> 
> That nor'sea is not to far from where i live I could go look at it. What should I be worried about and look for??


Our Nor'Sea is the aft cabin model. It is VERY comfortable for a couple to live aboard! We even had 2 of our boys stay for a time in the aft cabin. It still is our home for half a year at a time. You can see a lot of info about ours on our web site and on our Youtube page (listed in the sig area below).

If you can, take a look at the one close to you. I agree, it looks like a very good price! The major item I would be concerned with is the fuel tank, but the ad said it's new.

If you do decide to get interested in one, there is a Nor'Sea Yahoo group (Yahoo Groups) with a LOT of info and owners (13140 + messages and over 580 members).


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I'm not familiar with the Nor'Sea's, so I did a quick search. I found these resources which might be of interest:

Ellen and Ed sail around the world in their NorSea 27 Entr'acte

Nor'Sea 27

2008 Nor'Sea 27 Aft Cabin Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

Thank you for all the boat suggestion this should put me on the right track. 

What are the cost of cruising the carribean? Is it easy to anchor in protected bays? Is the food expensive over there? IS a budget of 1500$/month reallistic? 

what do boaters usually do in the summer over there? everybody leaves or are there safe place to store the boat in the huricanne season?


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

LaVarlope said:


> How are those 27 pocket cruiser? I own a 25' tanzer and cannot imagine living on it for a long period of time.


Boat displacement tells you a lot more then length. Tanzer 25 has a displacement of 4200 lbs, Nor'Sea has a displacement of 8100 lbs - so you get almost twice as much room in the second boat.


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

LaVarlope said:


> How are those 27 pocket cruiser? I own a 25' tanzer and cannot imagine living on it for a long period of time.
> 
> I know that they have more headroom and better function. They must be confortable for you to live on it for 12 years. was yours the aft cabin model?
> 
> That nor'sea is not to far from where i live I could go look at it. What should I be worried about and look for??


Here's sailingdog's thread that will help you decide whether a boat is worth looking at further: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/48177-boat-inspection-trip-tips.html

Good luck!


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## orthomartin (Oct 21, 2006)

First know that I departed Lk Michigan out the St Lawrence in 2008 and just completed an around the world. I loved the Gaspe, NF and NS!
Your question is really a big one, so many variables. Purchase price of 20-30k limits the field a lot making it difficult but is doable. If you want a strong sea-going vessel look for something like a Baba 35 or Cabo Rico. Problem will however be finding even a 20 year old boat of this quality for under 50k without having to put a lot of work into it.
The "plastic fantastics" like benny's can be fine but do require better sailing skills in heavy seas. The spade/fins do not heave to like the traditional boats but you can get a lot of boat for the money. My personal take however would be stay away from the older Hunters. The discussion of what boat could go on and on but you will be challenged to find a sea worthy boat in that price range if looking for 35 ft or larger.
The route to the med is not that difficult from NF or Halifax but in the normal passage period of May and June you can get slammed my strong gales north of about 39 degrees so some experience would of course help, thus a crew perhaps??
To get your feet wet so to speak consider going through the Bras d'Or Lakes and then down and around Nova Scotia to Maine and then down the US eastern seaboard working your way to your first winter cruising in the far Bahamas. You will love it and that is a good distance for a one year cruise from where you are.


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## rigalio (Nov 17, 2012)

We are intend to leave in 2015 and selling the house and go living on our boat
the boat is a vander stadt 30 steel cutter and we are going down the st Lawrence not the intra costal.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Welcome to the wonderful world of tough decisions. I think at the start of it, you perhaps need to make decisions about what you are planning. There is a huge difference between crossing the Atlantic from Halifax to Azores and then sailing down to the Caribbean vs. simply working your way down the U.S coast, crossing from Florida to the Bahamas and then down to the Caribbean. 

If you are taking the first route, you are out of land for longer periods and more exposed to seriously bad weather. If you are going that route, then you want to pick a boat which is really designed for offshore use. And if you are doing this on a tight budget, i.e. the money that is left from $75K after you have set aside enough money to cruise for a couple years, you are probably looking for an older 30 to 32 foot cruiser and not a recycled racer-cruiser or value oriented coastal cruiser. In other words, probably almost none of the boats recommended above. 

The high production volume, value oriented, coastal cruisers mentioned above that are within your price range are more than likely going to be tired and worn out. For a very few dollars more, you can typically buy an equal size boat that started out as a better design with better construction techniques. (The hull to deck joint on the Catalina 30 should take it off your list if nothing else about the boat does.) 

The high production volume, value oriented, coastal cruisers may be okay for the coastal routes, but it would greatly raise the risks and maintenance cost to try to use them for the offshore routes. The small offshore cruisers are neat boats for that kind of thing, but I would expect them to be well outside your price range or well past their 'use by' date if they were in your price range. The one exception is the Nebe, which may work, but I would be cautious about a thirty year old steel boat that someone is only asking $15K for. 

But if you are doing the US Coast to Bahamas to Caribbean route, then you might get by with a high volume, coastal cruisers since the hops are short and you are usually close enough to a safe harbor to pick a decent weather window and to repair facilities should you need them.

I am also skeptical of the advice to buy a boat in Florida. Florida typically has had slightly less expensive prices than other areas of the continent, but the Florida climate is very hard on a boat. So when I have looked at some of these so-called bargain boats in Florida, they have rarely been worth their asking price. 

The reality is that boats from Canada, Great Lakes, and New England have generally been sailed less due to the shorter sailing season, have not had the harsh UV exposure, and have longer maintenance sesons. As a result they are generally in better condition, and their prices are not all that different than the prices in Florida, especially when you are comparing boats of equal condition. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

I second what Jeff says....

Also, you may want to look at some of the older boats that were designed for offshore work that have been sailed up north and taken care of. Here's an example:

1975 Allied Princess 36 Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I have no idea of the condition of this boat other than reading the listing, but something like this could give you the option of bluewater or coastal crusing at somewhere near your budget.


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

Jeff_H said:


> Welcome to the wonderful world of tough decisions. I think at the start of it, you perhaps need to make decisions about what you are planning. There is a huge difference between crossing the Atlantic from Halifax to Azores and then sailing down to the Caribbean vs. simply working your way down the U.S coast, crossing from Florida to the Bahamas and then down to the Caribbean.
> 
> Jeff


Thank you Jeff very helpfull post. You are right, I have to make up my mind about where to go , than defining my need for what kind of boat I need will be clearer. Thing is I eventually want to be crossing a ocean but maybe it will be wise to play it safe an gain experience going along the coast . Im still young (33) but i dont know if I will have the same opportunity ever again, no debt, money in my pocket, no kids or family obligation....

I would like to purchase the boat this spring to test sail it this summer and make the prepartion than go.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

LaVarlope said:


> How are those 27 pocket cruiser? I own a 25' tanzer and cannot imagine living on it for a long period of time.
> 
> I know that they have more headroom and better function. They must be confortable for you to live on it for 12 years. was yours the aft cabin model?
> 
> That nor'sea is not to far from where i live I could go look at it. What should I be worried about and look for??


Wife and I have lived aboard and cruised a Vega 27 for going on 18 years. I lived aboard that same boat in Honolulu for six years before we met. The Vega is a bit roomier than a Norsea, possibly a bit faster, certainly less expensive to buy on the used market, but the Norsea has a lot to offer. Either one would Work fine for one or two people. Either will take you anywhere you want to go on the worlds waterways and still fit on a trailer for overland trips or cheap storage.

With a paid-for boat and US$50K, I think you could cruise until you get tired of it - almost indefinitely - if you are frugal and stop to work occasionally.

My advice? Don't saddle yourself with "Too much boat". Don't worry. Be happy


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

vega1860 said:


> My advice? Don't saddle yourself with "Too much boat". Don't worry. Be happy


VERY well said! 

Far to many people believe big is better.
I remember some time back, a couple sitting in our cockpit (27 foot) wining on how there boat was to small for the two of them and the dog.

I HAD to ask if they knew who they were talking to!! 

Greg


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

I found this boat near where i live. Allied princess Ketch 1975 hull #58. talk to the broker today and they are asking 40k for it negociable. Anybody has experience with this kind of boat? To big for singlehanders or a crew of 2? How much should i expect to put into her before considering making long distance cruise? i have a survey of the boat from 2010, looks clean. It has 150L water tanks and 150L diesel tank. Boat is to old?Moisture meter in 2010 has shown 20% to 40% humidity pretty much all over (deck and hull) good or bad?


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## Markwesti (Jan 1, 2013)

Those boats look to be capable off shore cruisers . I would say that if you want answers about the boat , you must get a mechanic to look over the engine, then a rigger, then a general survey . As far as single handing that is a matter of how you rig the boat, like auto pilot, roller furling, lines leading aft . But then you will want to do that to some extent for any boat . Good luck !


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## MikeGuyver (Dec 13, 2008)

OH BULL CRAP.. There aren't more than a hand full of you old ladies that can stand up to even half of what the average Catalina or Hunter can withstand. Why would you want to piss away a whole lot more money on some over built tank that can't get out of it's own wake with any kind of speed. All this horn honking is ridiculous. Buy a boat that is big enough to serve its purpose, provision it and get the hell out of the marina. If you listen to all these arm chair quarterbacks you'll never go anywhere.


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

MikeGuyver said:


> Buy a boat that is big enough to serve its purpose, provision it and get the hell out of the marina. If you listen to all these arm chair quarterbacks you'll never go anywhere.


That is my big question,the size. This is a huge step for me, the purchase of the boat, I don't want to regret going too small or too big. I am willing to invest a major chunck of my saving to live the dream.

I found an Albin vega in NS 1969 for 10k with a trailler hul #0703. I am going to see it in 2 weeks to judge if i like this kind of boat. I figure that with a boat this cheap I cannot go wrong but still would of like a boat around 30' or so. That boat was updated in 08 for cruising so this could keep the cost of refit down.

Is it worth it to look at a 45 years old boat???


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

LaVarlope said:


> That is my big question,the size.
> -- SNIP --
> That boat was updated in 08 for cruising so this could keep the cost of refit down.
> 
> Is it worth it to look at a 45 years old boat???


LOOK AT EVERY BOAT YOU CAN!

Our Nor'Sea 27 is BIG inside with two cabins that we lived in full time for years. And had two 2 big boys in the aft cabin for a time. BUT, you won't see one in any good condition for 10 K. BUT you might find a used one in the $ 30~40K range.

Use a bit of caution when a boat is advertised as recently being fitted out for cruising. The "upgrades" done to the boat was not by you and MAY have been done by some one who has no concept of blue water cruising!! I have seen boats "outfitted" by some wired people!!!! I saw one fine boat that was outfitted like a submarine!  Complete with round hatches instead of a normal companion way, the mast cut down to half size and other strange stuff on deck. The guy said he wanted to make sure he was safe and didn't care about performance. Outfitting is a very personal thing.

ONCE more.... I would suggest you look at EVERY BOAT! And the age seems to make the most difference in the lesser built boats. Our Nor'Sea has thousands of open blue water miles and thousands more of fresh water miles on it. There are still NO stress cracks to be seen any place on it! I have seen MUCH younger boats with lots of stress cracks. I am NOT saying that the stress cracks are structural, but I do consider them an indicator to the build of the craft.

Greg


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

Hey, I am now getting a little closer to the dream. After many boat visited, I even went to San Carlos, Mexico to look at some boat over there I think I have found what I am looking for. It's a Tartan34c that I have found in Maine. Plan is to splash it next spring the start cruising from there, do the whole east coast till fall, then head south for winter, then who knows...

Anybody here knows good surveyer in the belfast Area? I also wonder how it works when a Canadian buys a boat in the state and start cruising from there. How do I register it as a canadian vessel? Would also like some input if any of you ever have sailed a Tartan34.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

LaVarlope said:


> Hey, I am now getting a little closer to the dream. After many boat visited, I even went to San Carlos, Mexico to look at some boat over there I think I have found what I am looking for. It's a Tartan34c that I have found in Maine. Plan is to splash it next spring the start cruising from there, do the whole east coast till fall, then head south for winter, then who knows...
> 
> Anybody here knows good surveyer in the belfast Area? I also wonder how it works when a Canadian buys a boat in the state and start cruising from there. How do I register it as a canadian vessel? Would also like some input if any of you ever have sailed a Tartan34.


*BIG MISTAKE* --------- *LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION*

Nothing wrong with the type of boat you are buying it is just you are buying it in the wrong place.

Assuming your second year is going to be trying to get to the Caribbean there is a reason that the route is called the Thorny Path.

Buy somewhere in the Eastern Caribbean and sail the Windwards and Leewards for a year maybe heading down to Guyana for an adventure. Then sail back to the USA for your second year BVI USVI Puerto Rico DR Turks and Caicos and finally the Bahamas. If you do this you will be able to SAIL most of the time and again most of it with a warm wind over your shoulder. I know because that is where I sail. Coming south from Maine I can almost guarantee you will spend a lot of time motoring down the ditch then you get to do the Thorny Path..

Cmon fly to Trini and buy this Dynamite Marine Ltd (Chaguaramas, Trinidad and Tobago) It is even Canadian registered !

You will be Caribbean cruising in a week. The living is easy and the rum is cheap. Fewer naked ladies than there used to be though.


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

TQA said:


> Cmon fly to Trini and buy this Dynamite Marine Ltd (Chaguaramas, Trinidad and Tobago) It is even Canadian registered !
> 
> You will be Caribbean cruising in a week. The living is easy and the rum is cheap. Fewer naked ladies than there used to be though.


Food for thought! Still is more reassuring to start on a know cruising ground(sort of) and from what I saw in mexico, boats in the south are'nt in tip top shape. I like your input and will think about this. When is the best time to start cruising the caribbean?

Nothing to help a already undecided sailor


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

LaVarlope said:


> Food for thought! Still is more reassuring to start on a know cruising ground(sort of) and from what I saw in mexico, boats in the south are'nt in tip top shape. I like your input and will think about this. When is the best time to start cruising the caribbean?
> 
> Nothing to help a already undecided sailor


That boat is ready to go



> "Hoplite" was lovingly restored in 2012!
> 
> NEW paint Topsides, Hull and Antifouling. cushion and all upholstery all replaced. Wiring redone! NEW Yanmar 29HP Engine fitted. NEW Sails.
> 
> ...


October is good time but a little earlier is OK. Just stay low and watch the weather.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

LaVarlope said:


> That is my big question,the size. This is a huge step for me, the purchase of the boat, I don't want to regret going too small or too big. I am willing to invest a major chunck of my saving to live the dream.
> 
> I found an Albin vega in NS 1969 for 10k with a trailler hul #0703. I am going to see it in 2 weeks to judge if i like this kind of boat. I figure that with a boat this cheap I cannot go wrong but still would of like a boat around 30' or so. That boat was updated in 08 for cruising so this could keep the cost of refit down.
> 
> Is it worth it to look at a 45 years old boat???


Get the boat YOU like. You'll be a lot happier that way than buying the boat someone else likes. There is a reason there are so many different styles, rigs, hull shapes, etc. in sailboats.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Im no expert but I have dabbled...in this used boat thing

if you dont carry your tools, are 100 percent profficient in all systems, can change bulkheads, do glass work recore decks, do all rigging etc..no matter how good of a bargain said boat is overseas you will loooooooooooooooooooose money and spend money big time doing what you could easily at "home"

now there are exceptions to the rule, and luck plays a part too, but what the op feels is valid...

playing it safe is fine.

now
chaguaramas has a fame for having great deals, boat work, and services...so thats solid advice too


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## Frogwatch (Jan 22, 2011)

Get a Mac 26 with water ballast and 65 hp OB. You could trailer it anywhere. Take it Florida, sail the Keys for experience. Watch the weather and hop across to West End in Bahamas UNDER POWER at 10 kts then sail the Abacos. I have a friend in Marsh HArbor and that is what he does (he lives on it) and he takes it further down all the way to Cat Island and if he can get there then it is easier to get to Georgetown.
Smaller boat, lower costs, much lower. You could even take your trailer across to Marsh harbor and keep her on it to save money.
Get tired of Abaco, go down to Eluthras and then Exumas, island hop to Turks and Caicos and then to Hispaniola.
Suggesting the Mac26 will get me accused of blasphemy but it is a far more practical boat than the Norsea27 and I maintain is actually a safer option as it can float in almost no water allowing it to be beached or moved into very shallow anchorages. At 10-12 kts with the big 65 hp outboard, it'll get you to safety in a hurry while the heavy boats are plodding to safety at 4.5 kts.
Good used Mac 26 will not cost too much.


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

Frogwatch said:


> Get a Mac 26 with water ballast and 65 hp OB.
> ..<SNIP>.....
> Suggesting the Mac26 will get me accused of blasphemy but it is a far more practical boat than the Norsea27 and I maintain is actually a safer option as it can float in almost no water allowing it to be beached or moved into very shallow anchorages. At 10-12 kts with the big 65 hp outboard, it'll get you to safety in a hurry while the heavy boats are plodding to safety at 4.5 kts.
> Good used Mac 26 will not cost too much.


There are SO MANY types of boats out there at all different prices. But we NEED to consider what LaVarlope said in the original post.

He said, " I look at different option. I shop for a 28 to 35' boat around 20 to 30k. I wonder if I should* cross the atlantic from halifax to azores than go to carrabean* or cross form Florida to carrabean."

The Mac might be the choice for some one who want to sail protected waters from time to time. But I don't think it's up to crossing the Atlantic. A cared for Nor'Sea 27 has no problem with that voyage and can still be trailed from place to place almost like the Mac, just a bigger truck.

*Disclaimer*, I own and cruise a Nor'Sea and Jill and I lived aboard 24/7/365 for many years at dock and full time cruising in the Pacific, and recently for 4+ months in the Gulf of Mexico.

Greg


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

Yes and i started this post 8 month ago, been looking at many boats since then. I got to understand what is the use boat market other then just looking at adds on yatchworld. The trip to Mexico really opened my eyes as to what work it will be to buy a boat that far away from home. 

But to step away from real life for 2 years and taking a huge chunk of my net worth in the process sailing right of the bat in paradise other the motoring from port to port is to be considered.

I will get in contact with the guys in Dynamite see what's what otherwise I'll go with the Tartan34 and hope to cast off next spring.

Thanks guys and will keep you posted.


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

LaVarlope said:


> I will get in contact with the guys in Dynamite see what's what otherwise I'll go with the Tartan34 and hope to cast off next spring.
> 
> Thanks guys and will keep you posted.


A Tartan 34 looks like a good choice for you! 
Good luck, have *FUN* and let us know how it goes.

Greg


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

christian.hess said:


> Im no expert but I have dabbled...in this used boat thing
> 
> if you dont carry your tools, are 100 percent profficient in all systems, can change bulkheads, do glass work recore decks, do all rigging etc..no matter how good of a bargain said boat is overseas you will loooooooooooooooooooose money and spend money big time doing what you could easily at "home"
> 
> ...


You will find that having work done in Trini is much cheaper than the states.

I had my 44 ft boat Awlgripped there. for $4200 US inclusive of materials. That was prep removing old paint by sanding, 3 coats of primer and 3 top coats plus boot top in a different color.

Go price that in the US.

Most jobs will 1/3 to 1/2 what it would cost in the US.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I think you will do fine with that Tartan. You asked about anchoring in the Caribbean. You can anchor basically anywhere without a problem. Really good ground tackle is a cheap investments (which anchor is a constant battleground here so I won't get into it now). $1500 a month is ample. We cruised in the Caribbean on a 45 footer on less than that without having to cut corners. If you don't had this book, get it. It lays out how you get from Florida to the Eastern Caribbean without too much pain. It is a tough route because you are battling the trade winds. The book suggests how to use frontal systems to make easing.

The Gentleman's Guide to Passages South: The Thornless Path to Windward: Mr. Bruce Van Sant: 9781470146962: Amazon.com: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@51oigQpeEoL


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

TQA said:


> You will find that having work done in Trini is much cheaper than the states.
> 
> I had my 44 ft boat Awlgripped there. for $4200 US inclusive of materials. That was prep removing old paint by sanding, 3 coats of primer and 3 top coats plus boot top in a different color.
> 
> ...


I KNOW same applies here

my emphasis is that YOU the boat buyer must be prepared to do all those things too "just in case"

Ill give you an example just one

if I mess up my rigging job here and need a new norseman terminal from the states by the time it gets here, I pay 3 or 4 times the price of that piece only

now in trini you have all that, and labor, and expertise...but you still have to source some stuff that you cant get there

this would apply to any place in the world that doesnt have massive parts sourcing and stocks...

now Ill offer something PRO for doing work and or jobs in cheap places

I did my deck gelcoat, chainplates, bulkheads all for less than $2k including labor...yeah work was slow...and I had to be on top of it but you couldnt source that out back in the states could you?

so we agree in reality

ps my last sentence on that previous post specifically agreed with what your are saying about chaguaramas btw....jajaja


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

So I come across this thread, and tomorrow my family of five begin our year of sailing to the Caribbean. I have a post about how I chose our boat on our blog, a tartan 41. We have been two years in the planning, it all comes to fruition tomorrow.

We are heading down the east coast and them doing the Carib 1500 to quickly get to the tropics. I thought about going via the Bahamas but that would have eaten almost the whole year just getting there!

Check out the blog, and hopefully I'll be able to post something useful for you.


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

vtsailguy said:


> So I come across this thread, and tomorrow my family of five begin our year of sailing to the Caribbean. ...snip...


CONGRATS!!! Have a GREAT time!
Take it easy and enjoy the trip, don't rush.

Greg


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

Thanks 

My goal for the year, to get the boys to understand... It's the journey, not the destination....


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

vtsailguy said:


> Thanks
> 
> My goal for the year, to get the boys to understand... It's the journey, not the destination....


Welcome to the wonderful world of cruising. Remember time is no longer your master and schedules and itineraries that are set in stone will get you beaten up.

Nothing wrong with diverting to the Bahamas if it gets real snotty out there going south. The Bahamas are a great cruising area.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Frogwatch said:


> Get a Mac 26 with water ballast and 65 hp OB. You could trailer it anywhere. Take it Florida, sail the Keys for experience. Watch the weather and hop across to West End in Bahamas UNDER POWER at 10 kts then sail the Abacos. I have a friend in Marsh HArbor and that is what he does (he lives on it) and he takes it further down all the way to Cat Island and if he can get there then it is easier to get to Georgetown.
> Smaller boat, lower costs, much lower. You could even take your trailer across to Marsh harbor and keep her on it to save money.
> Get tired of Abaco, go down to Eluthras and then Exumas, island hop to Turks and Caicos and then to Hispaniola.
> Suggesting the Mac26 will get me accused of blasphemy but it is a far more practical boat than the Norsea27 and I maintain is actually a safer option as it can float in almost no water allowing it to be beached or moved into very shallow anchorages. At 10-12 kts with the big 65 hp outboard, it'll get you to safety in a hurry while the heavy boats are plodding to safety at 4.5 kts.
> Good used Mac 26 will not cost too much.


I swore I wasn't going to do this but this was the last straw....Having read quite a few of your posts, it would appear that your standard response to any questions is "Get a Mac 26 with water ballast and 65 hp." It does not seem to matter what the question is. From "What kind of boat should I buy for daysailing?", "What kind of boat should I buy to cross the Atlantic?", "What kind of sail boat should I buy to do a great loop and save a lot of fuel?", to "Does this tie match this shirt?", your answer is always the same chorus "Get a Mac 26 with water ballast and 65 hp."

It does not matter how irrelevant it is to the question. It does not seem to matter whether you have thought through the question or considered the fine points such as the question involves crossing 1,800 miles of open water and how is a Mac 26 going to carry that much fuel, or the question involves crossing some pretty treacherous waters, or that the question involves a family of four, and so on; your chorus remains "Get a Mac 26 with water ballast and 65 hp."

And it would not be so bad if your answer actually made sense in most of these cases, but it rarely if ever does. And when someone calls you out on it you say that they are boat snobs or prejudice against Macs. Years ago I worked for a company that sold trailerables, commissioning Macs and Ventures and teaching people to sail them. They were slightly better built than some of the options out there, but not as well built as most normal sailboats of the day. In looking at newer Macs, they don't seem to get any better than they were back then. I have seen them try to sail in a broad range of conditions, and their sailing capabilities are poor, and approaching dangerous in a blow.

So, while I don't know why you think that a "Mac 26 with water ballast and 65 hp" is the Swiss knife of answers, but I would suggest for your own credibility that you at least try to filter your answers so that they at least sound plausible.

Jeff


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

Not to mention bad advise that it may cost someone there life. Always air on the side of caution. Like sizing an anchor " Figger out what size you need then go one size larger. Safety first.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Jeff Don't feed the troll.


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

Hey everybody , I'm looking for a surveyor in the ottawa region. If you know any reputable one in the area I would like to contact them.

In the meanwhile here's some picture I took of the boat that I'm interested in buying. I really like the Tartan34 but cannot find one in my budget and close buy that has Diesel engine. Is ti foolish to consider buying one with the old Atomic-4??? 

Here are the feature in this boat that I really like. Cape horn windvane, Tiller steering, great ground tackle (Mantis, CQR, Danforth) Propane range, solar panel, 3 head sail(110%,135% and 60%), 3 reefing point in mainsail, 6 new stainless opening port.

Only thing really bothering me is the engine really and maybe the rust showing on the bow roller.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I would not worry at about the rust on the bow roller. It happens and cleans up pretty easily (and happens again of course). I have had an Atomic 4 and several diesel engines. For extended cruising I much prefer a diesel. The fuel economy is much better and in a few, more obscure places diesel fuel is more readily available and often cheaper.

The best thing to do may be to buy a boat on the US coast south of you where there will be a much greater selection and prices may be cheaper. Two possibilities: 

1) It is not hard, and quite a pleasant trip to bring the boat home. From New York City to Quebec City is about a week up the Hudson and through Lake Champlain. Most of this will be motoring btw with the mast down from Albany area to Sorel. Add to the week the time needed to go from where you get the boat to NYC.
2) Don't bring the boat home and start your journey from wherever you buy the boat. With this approach you don't have to pay HST (it is payable when you actually import the boat). The restriction is that you have a one year cruising permit in the US (this does include time spend on the hard, but you need to talk to the officials to arrange this exemption).

The boat you are looking at does look very nice, except for the engine. Note that I have nothing against Atomic 4s for normal coastal cruising.


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

Pretty boat and I hear that it is capable if in good condition.

Gas vs Diesel is a controversial topic.

Take a look at the Moyer Marine website. Moyer is the acknowledged expert on these motors and there are a LOT of them still out there.

Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Engine Rebuilding and Parts

RE: route,

Have you considered sailing to the mid-Atlantic then over to Bermuda? Gulfstream can be a challenge but manageable.

From Bermuda it's about 900+ miles to the Virgins and you will pick up the trades after a few days.

From the Virgins keep going south.

Maybe hit the Bahamas on the way back? Sell the boat in FL and fly home?


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

if the Atomic 4 is still running good, it must be a piece of crap


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

Don0190 said:


> if the Atomic 4 is still running good, it must be a piece of crap


The only part that is not readily available form rebuilding the A4 is the bare block 
Just an observation but Don do you ever get tired of pessimism


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

newhaul said:


> The only part that is not readily available form rebuilding the A4 is the bare block
> Just an observation but Don do you ever get tired of pessimism


I believe Moyer is offering new blocks now.

To the OP; have you seen this:

http://www.tartanownersweb.org/models/t34/media/BoatWorks-Tartan34.pdf


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

newhaul said:


> The only part that is not readily available form rebuilding the A4 is the bare block
> Just an observation but Don do you ever get tired of pessimism


You call it pessimism to say if the engine runs good it is crap and then wink, which makes it joke?

I call that jokingly saying if the engine runs good, don't be worried about it.

Get a grip!


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

My dilema really comes from the engine, Here are my 2 option:

#1 - 1972 Tartan 34 reg : canada(plus) price : +/- 20 000$
atomic-4 (minus)
cape horn windvane (plus)
gimbaled propane range (plus)
6 new ss opening port (plus)
ais recevever (plus)
good sails (plus)

#2 1972 tartan 34 in new jersey reg : us (minus) price : +/- 20 000$

m4-30 diesel engine 1995 (plus)
no gibaled stove (minus)
no windvane (minus)
stock opening port (minus)
no solar panel etc.

For argument sake lets assume both hull and deck are in similar condition. Does the diesel engine justify going trhough the assle of importing a us boat in canada. Cost of registration.. and less gear to start with etc..????

Plan is still to go south next year will probably be doing some passage 3 to 4 days at some point, lots of coastal cruising and island hoping. Thinking more and more about doing shakedown cruise here in the gulf of st-lawrence (ile de la madelaine, gaspe, nova scotia etc.) next summer.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

What are sails like in #2? If they aren't good and the engine in #1 is good I would get it.


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

Sails & Rigging
Aluminum mast & boom (painted), keel stepped, Harken roller furling, Barient winches, Harken mainsheet blocks, external halyards, full battened mainsail (98), 135% furling genoa (13), 155% (2000), gennaker (excellent), yankee jib (good), boom vang

from the ad of #2 , only main sail is concerning me.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

There seem to be quite a few Tartan 34s available. The one in Maine (see below) seems pretty nice (diesel) and is US$18500. Also note that these are asking prices and this is an excellent time of the year to be buying a boat. The Maine boat has not been in the water since 2011. I suspect the seller is quite motivated and would not mind avoiding another winter of storage cost.

The cost of importing is not much and the paperwork is not a big issue. One other question I would have is whether the genoa winches (at least) are self-tailing on any of these boats. As for sail quality, the age of the sail does not tell you much. I have a 2009 Hood 135% that I could sell to you very cheaply. Only problem is that it has been used for 30,000 miles. You really have to inspect the sails (or have a sailmaker look at them) to know how good they are.

Tartan 34 boats for sale - www.yachtworld.com

Final comment, the vane steering is a very nice feature and you likely would need to buy one for your boat if it does not come with one. On the other hand, if someone put one on a boat chances are good that the boat has a lot more miles on it than a boat used for daysails on days but only when the wind was under 15 knots.


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

Thank you killarney_sailor , I went twice in Maine to look at this boat, I could of had it for 8k but there was so much work on it to be done that I gave up.

I like your input about the windvane, #1 has been cruising intensly the past year, All around nova scotia, out in the atlantic down to bahamas and cuba then back. 

Should this concern me?? It was actually giving me confidence in the boat.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Has the one is Maine been fixed up a lot to justify a 10k increase in the price? I think the fact the boat has done that trip should give you confidence in the model itself. A lot of things on a boat are consumable items - even if they are very expensive ones. A sail has a certain amount of life in it. Going to the Caribbean and back (5000+ nm) is using up quite a bit of life. 

Windvanes are less of a concern in terms of wearing out. Various bearings and bushings on our Monitor are pretty worn, but we have bought replacements for everything ($140 I think) and will be doing a rebuild when we get back to the Caribbean. The number of engine hours matters too, but probably more important is how rigorous the maintenance schedule has been. Hard to tell this without a good (believable) maintenance log.

Did you check out the boat in Vermont? It is closer to home at least? The at Shelter Island has a diesel, radar (nice depending on where you go), and a very good price.


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## Antibes (May 18, 2011)

Go with the Tartan with the A4 if its is found in good shape. You can add a second fuel tank if you decide to cross the big pond.


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## tumbleweed34 (Sep 20, 2014)

We bought a Tartan 34c this time last year and spent almost every weekend this year prepping her to be a liveaboard/cruiser. We should launch in two weeks. Ours has a yanmar 3gm, no windvane though. A windvane and a diesel would be ideal but if the atomic 4 runs good now than its just a matter of keeping up with routine engine maintenance, especially water separator filter changes. If the A4 runs good, degrease the motor and paint it. pop the engine compartment open on a routine basis, a freshly painted engine will quickly reveal any new leaks or drips and alert you to any issues. the 34c's are nicely set up, with the engine box off you can get to all sides of the engine without having to be a contortionist. good luck on your adventure


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

I saw the boat in Vermont. We were thinking of buying it, but my husband likes the Ericsons better. It is a nice boat. I really liked it. It has the engine in a weird place,though, right near one of the "sofas." (Can't remember the name of the sofas, sorry) You can see it in one of the pictures. 

My experienced sailor friend looked at it with us and said it would need some work, but was a solid boat. From the same broker, he had looked at a 1980 something Sea Sprite which I really liked but it was out of our budget, about 33k, I think. He hurt his back, so isn't looking right now. 

The broker is Steve from Bruce Hill Yachts. He's a good guy. I trusted him.
Nancy


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

BTW, as a cautious new sailor, I'm going to push my husband for the Tartan over an Ericson. The Ericsons are great boats, but owners tell me they are faster and the Tartans are more sturdy. I like sturdy.


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

Hello again, Im closing the deal on the Tartan34 with the A4. Somethings came up, I got the price as low as I can but when the owner hauled out his boat last week and he told me that he suspect water intrusion into his rudder and that he think that his mainsail is to be change. He says the rudder is a easy fix and that he wont move on his price even with those 2 issues. 

I have a surveyor booked to go over the boat this Sunday but the owner made it clear that he wont bring the price down anymore even if there other things that we find during the survey. Should I still go through or is this a RED light that I should consier.

I think my probleme is that I fell in love with that boat with all her shinny SS port and equipement  It really is a well equiped boat but has the A4 RCW engine, main sail that has to be change and a soak rudder .

This is a worksheet that I made, what do you guys think am I going to kill my cruising kitty trying to make this my dream boat? or is this plan still viable.


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## Delezynski (Sep 27, 2013)

LaVarlope said:


> ...SNIP...
> he suspect water intrusion into his rudder and that he think that his mainsail is to be change. He says the rudder is a easy fix and that he wont move on his price even with those 2 issues.
> ...SNIP...


Fixing a water filled rudder can be BIG $$$$. It may NOT be an easy fix.

Pay for the survey and go from there. Don't forget if you pay for the survey, IT's YOURS not the owners. If he wants a copy, he should pay half, at least.

BE READY TO WALK if he will not adjust for fixes needed!

*A GOOD deal is only good IF both parties are equally unhappy! *

Greg


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I agree...I'd be ready to walk, unless you're getting her for a steal. Add up the cost of the repairs in your head, and add it to the cost of the boat. Is the sum close to or more than what you'd pay for another boat? Don't let shiny widgets blind you, either - if you can't sail her, or if they won't get used most of the time, the shiny widgets won't do you any good, so don't include them in the calculation.

To paraphrase the old saying...there are other boats in the sea. Besides, if you walk, the owner may change his mind. Maybe not...but maybe.


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

Ok so finally we manage to agree on a price for that 34'. It is now mine, so stoke about it. Thank you everybody for your input and feedback. Now it's time to prep everyting so I can be ready next spring to cast off.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

congrats! Now the "fun" begins. Fact of life, NOT many rudders are dry. even the one on my boat with epoxy coating and all that still gets water in it. Thing is to not let the water stay in the core.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

My rudder was actually split along the front seam, filled with water. I drilled a half-dozen 1/2-inch holes in the rudder, and allowed the water to drain out for three months while on the hard. I then connected a Shop Van and vacuumed out as much of the moisture as possible, which was only a bit more. Then I heated the entire rudder with a heat gun for about three hours, which steamed out most of the residual moisture.

The next step was to inject epoxy into the rudder core, which I really don't believe did much, but there is really no way to determine this. Next, grinding an indentation around each of the six holes I drilled, then placing stainless bolts, large fender washers, and lock-nuts to provide structural integrity to the rudder. Finally, the entire job was covered with several layers of fiberglass matting and roving, and after curing, a couple coats of antifouling bottom paint was applied. So far, after three years, it seems to holding up quite well.

Now, I did have serious thoughts about installing a new rudder, a foam filled rudder that is custom made in Florida. The cost was about $1,100 and I had to ship them my old rudder to be sure the size was perfect for the replacement. These rudders are very well constructed and well worth the expense. The major difficulty is removing the old rudder and replacing it with the new one. The boat must be lifted fairly high above the ground in order to obtain the needed clearance for removal and installation.

Good luck,

Gary


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

Yeah, I have remove the rudder last week-end. It went well, all I had to do was remove the the bottom cast iron shoe and the attachement at the tiller and it came off. It's now in my 2 room appartment wich I have now transform into a boat shop . I had 2 option in mind either split the whole thing in 2 and have a good look at what is going on or simply do like you did and drill holes to let the water out and fill it with epoxy.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Gary, what you have to do to get the rudder off depends on where you are sitting. If you are on dirt you can dig a hole to drop the rudder. Sort of a raise the bridge, lower the water thing.

I split my Niagara 35 rudder and had the mild steel web that was welded to the stainless shaft replaced. Don't know if it was necessary or not but there was piece of mind.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

travlineasy said:


> ...I then connected a Shop Van and vacuumed out as much of the moisture as possible...


You can let the shop vac run overnight, and use duct tape to seal the rudder against the vacuum hose.

You can add a hole to add additional airflow through the vaccum, if you want. It will be kinder to the shop vac, but the cost of a sheap shop vac is much less than a rudder.

Regards,
Brad


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Nancyleeny said:


> BTW, as a cautious new sailor, I'm going to push my husband for the Tartan over an Ericson. The Ericsons are great boats, but owners tell me they are faster and the Tartans are more sturdy. I like sturdy.


FWIW- Whoever told you that Ericsons were faster but are more solid does not know both boats all that well. The very last Ericsons built by Pacific Seacraft were more solid than the Tartans but they were heavier and so did sail as fast as the earlier ones.

Jeff


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## LaVarlope (Dec 6, 2013)

This is how the PO covered the boat for the winter. I wonder if the opening space at the bow and transom are a probleme? I think its good to allow airflow, but the way it is set up its leaving large opening for snow to get on deck. I was wondering if its a big deal?


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I suspect that may just be this size of tarp he had. Would not hurt to put a Canadian Tire el cheapo tarp at each end using the mast for support. One hint, don't use the el cheapo grommets on the el cheapo tarp. Run light lines through the grommets over the top of the tarp and tie at both ends. A bit of snow on the deck will not be a problem. Some people do not cover their boats at all and have not for many years. I have a friend with a Viking 33 that he has owned since new (39 years) and he does not cover it.


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

Jeff_H said:


> FWIW- Whoever told you that Ericsons were faster but are more solid does not know both boats all that well. The very last Ericsons built by Pacific Seacraft were more solid than the Tartans but they were heavier and so did sail as fast as the earlier ones.
> 
> Jeff


Jeff,

I've been dreaming/looking at Tartans and Ericsons as future possibilities if/when our abilities and desires outgrow our P26. I'm interested in your comparisons above, but I confess I can't make heads and tails of it. Are there some typos in your post above? Should it read,

"Whoever told you that Ericsons were faster but Tartans are more solid does not know both boats all that well. The very last Ericsons built by Pacific Seacraft were more solid than the Tartans, but they were heavier and so did NOT sail as fast as the earlier Ericsons."

or something like that?

Thanks.. not picking nits.. just trying to figure out what you meant.

Barry


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