# Coastal crusing with occassional passage making :)



## c_witch

Hi all,

Firstly I'm from Nova Scotia and my home port is slightly north east of Halifax. I have a 22 foot Yankee Condor swing keel that I've been refitting for slightly over a year now. She is NOT a day sailer ie think in terms of a 80's Sonic in design.

I'm curious as to how many of you have or are considering doing any long cruising with boats of this size? I hope to finally splash her this year in late April or early May and spend a year or so doing shake down cruises. Eventually we intend to take her south and spend our time cruising the carribean sea.

How she is fitted.

20 gallon water tank on the keel line under the v berth
MSD toilet with 2.5 gallon holding tank with both dock side and seaside pump out
2 burner propane stove
2+ cubic foot ice box
All lighting is now LED
Navigation via Laptop running Linux (Mint) using OpenCPN with ENC's These are offshore charts though
7.5 HP Honda outboard
dual 5 gallon gas tanks in the aft stern locker
dual 150 amp hour batteries for the house bank
180 Watt Kyocera solar panel
Standing rigging has been changed from 1/8'' to 5/32'' with dual nico press fittings per end.

I have tried to outfit her so that she is capable of open water passages of 10 days duration other wise we will be coast jumping. Most of our sailing is expected to be within 30 nm of land.










c_witch


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## -OvO-

You'll have to ration carefully to make that 20 gal H20 last two persons ten days (at least, if the weather is warm) and hope that you don't get caught out much longer.


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## ChristinaM

Storage for food & extra drinking water would be my only real concerns, assuming you're fairly used to the motion of the boat in ocean waves. Sailing NE of Halifax, I would guess you know what her motion's like in weather.

I'm ending up with the smallest boat my husband thinks he can live on, 38'.


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## SVAuspicious

An outboard can be difficult to get along with when things get bumpy. The propeller keeps coming out of the water.


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## c_witch

-OvO- said:


> You'll have to ration carefully to make that 20 gal H20 last two persons ten days (at least, if the weather is warm) and hope that you don't get caught out much longer.


Hiee,

LOL yes a 20 gallon primary supply is somewhat limited, one also has to be aware of what they have available to them while open water sailing and use accordingly. We do have many nooks and crannies to also carry additoinal 1 gallon jugs of water.

c_witch


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## c_witch

ChristinaM said:


> Storage for food & extra drinking water would be my only real concerns, assuming you're fairly used to the motion of the boat in ocean waves. Sailing NE of Halifax, I would guess you know what her motion's like in weather.
> 
> I'm ending up with the smallest boat my husband thinks he can live on, 38'.


Water is our main issue with this boat. Food while doing passage making will be freeze dried/dehydrated packaged meals ie the ones you add boiling water to to reconstitute. As well as the usual quick energy foods requiring little if any prep work.

c_witch


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## CapnBones

Just a thought on the food rations. I would look into canned foods that will not need re-hydration thus allowing for more efficient use of your limited water supply.


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## CapnBilll

Cool, I'm looking into doing the same thing. 

1 gal water jugs work good. Even better with an extra empty 5 gal collapsable tank like those sold in camping supplies. with a clean tarp, and funnel to capture rain water.

On some of those boats the swing keel has a locking bolt to keep from undeploying during rough seas. If it doesn't think about building one. 

Upgraded rigging, and reinforced mast step should take care of most issues, every boat of every size has it's weaknesses.

Locking pins on hatches, and hatch boards, drains on cockpit lockers, seals on lazeret lids,....

And with a solid hull, and good ballast ratio, it should be just fine, after all you will be "coastal sailing", and can escape major storms if you watch the weather. 

That size of boat will fit in ICW easily, and is an option if it gets too nasty offshore.

I'm also working on a "pocket sailer", and I hope to meet you in the Carribean someday. :thumbs up:


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## sawingknots

long ago i decided not to install a regular water tank,you can never be sure of the water quaility in many places,i just use the one gallon water jugs and store them in any available space,i take saltwater baths and wash my clothes in salt water,i've never came close to running out of drinking water,a smaller boat can be seaworthy[flicka] comes to mind but for many people comfort is the main concern


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## WanderingStar

You can find accounts of coastal cruising in small boats. I don't have a link, but there is a couple cruising Central America in a modified SeaPearl (21'?) and blogging. I read in Messing About in Small Boats (magazine) about a guy cruising the Bahamas in a boat under 20'. I did some coastal cruising solo in a 20' weekender (Pennant Sloop) halfway around Long Island NY. That boat had no motor, no plumbing, no wiring. A portapotti, cooler, camp stove and two five gallon water bottles did fine. I hopped along shore in the ocean and the Sound, took her through NY Harbor and Hell Gate. You can do it if you are careful.


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## Bene505

Is the cockpit self bailing?

Regards,
Brad


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## Ajax_MD

C_Witch,

A few thoughts:

Plenty of people have made passages in pocket cruisers. In fact, someone just started a pocket cruiser thread, listing all kinds of tough little boats. My only question about *your* boat, is the swing keel. How much ballast is in that keel? How much ballast does a Sea Witch have? Hopefully this is not a very tender boat. It would be interesting to know what the Stability Index is for this boat.

It's good that you've upgraded the standing rigging, but this puts more weight aloft, and if the boat is already tender, you have exacerbated this a little bit. In the ocean, this can be a Bad Thing.

Provisions:

I agree, that a lot of dehydrated food can dent your water supply. Canned foods are heavier and take up more room, but you're carrying fluids in the cans. There are also military type MRE's (Meal Ready to Eat) that are not dehydrated, yet also not packed full of water, and stow more easily than canned foods. They are also self-heating. Check with your local hiking/backpacking supplier, or online.

Water: I recommend either collapsible water bladders or the 2.5 gallon jugs with a spout instead of 1 gallon jugs. The bladders and 2.5 gallon jugs can be set on any horizontal surface with the spout open to provide "running" water. You can't do that with a gallon jug, plus gallon jugs will cause more plastic waste, and don't compress down as easily when they're empty.

Stowage:

You probably already know this, but stow all of your heavy foods and fluids down as low in the boat as possible so that it will perform as additional ballast instead of a hindrence, up high, making the boat more tender.

2 people on a 20 footer, plus provisions... whew, that's going to be tight.

Good luck, post pictures, start a blog or something!


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## Minnewaska

Staying well hydrated can make the difference in everything from being alert to avoiding seasickness. You should never feel thirsty or your body is telling you something. (margarita thirsty is a whole different matter) I would consider a hand operated watermaker. I would still plan to carry enough, but that way you don't have to worry as much.


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## c_witch

CapnBones said:


> Just a thought on the food rations. I would look into canned foods that will not need re-hydration thus allowing for more efficient use of your limited water supply.


Hiee,

We will likely carry some canned goods as you can't get everything in dehydrated/freezedried format. Can don't sto well on small boats due to limited space and compartmental shape not to mention the additional weight of the metal. The other thing to note is that I am talking about food stuffs that are utilized while moving from point A to B and NOT while on the hook at any particular destination.

c_witch


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## c_witch

Bene505 said:


> Is the cockpit self bailing?
> 
> Regards,
> Brad


Hiee,

Yes the cockpit is self draining and will double as both tub and shower :laugher. using seawater and NOT fresh water. Its a single 1 1/2'' inch drain drain via a thru hull in the stern.

c_witch


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## c_witch

sawingknots said:


> long ago i decided not to install a regular water tank,you can never be sure of the water quaility in many places,i just use the one gallon water jugs and store them in any available space,i take saltwater baths and wash my clothes in salt water,i've never came close to running out of drinking water,a smaller boat can be seaworthy[flicka] comes to mind but for many people comfort is the main concern


LOL the comfort word. My only regret with out boat is not having standing head room in the cabin. I have considered cutting the cabin roof astern of the mast step and raising the cabin height and eliminating the sliding companion way hatches and installing a sea door from the cockpit. The downside being windage from a greater cabin height. We also intend to use seawater for bathing and washing when fresh water is not available. We will also be using a custom made foldable canvas funnel to collect rain water to replenish the fresh water tankage. I have also been inclined to have on board the water purifiers that one uses for backpacking in the wilds.

c_witch


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## sawingknots

c_witch said:


> LOL the comfort word. My only regret with out boat is not having standing head room in the cabin. I have considered cutting the cabin roof astern of the mast step and raising the cabin height and eliminating the sliding companion way hatches and installing a sea door from the cockpit.
> 
> c_witch


i wouldn't do that,most of your time except sleeping will be in the cockpit anyway and on hot nights i often sleep there too,also its not a good idea to cook much in the cabin,grease etc builds up quickly and in unexcessable areas,when off shore monitor the weather frequently,afternoon popup stoms can't always be avoided but usually don't last long


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## Bene505

c_witch said:


> ...I have also been inclined to have on board the water purifiers that one uses for backpacking in the wilds.
> 
> c_witch


Those are for removing bacteria from otherwise drinkable water. Rainwater should be okay unless your collectors are dirty. Desalination is something very different. And as stated before, hand operated desalinators are available.

(That said, we have a pur filter on our galley faucet.)

Regards,
Brad


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## killarney_sailor

*collecting water*



c_witch said:


> LOL the comfort word. My only regret with out boat is not having standing head room in the cabin. I have considered cutting the cabin roof astern of the mast step and raising the cabin height and eliminating the sliding companion way hatches and installing a sea door from the cockpit. The downside being windage from a greater cabin height. We also intend to use seawater for bathing and washing when fresh water is not available. We will also be using a custom made foldable canvas funnel to collect rain water to replenish the fresh water tankage. I have also been inclined to have on board the water purifiers that one uses for backpacking in the wilds.
> 
> c_witch


We had a water-collector that was made from one of those blue, el cheap tarps that was about 5' x 2' collection area when open. Not terribly useful. Couple of thoughts - if you have a bolt rope at the bottom of your mainsail you may be able to use the main and boom as a collector since most of the rain will run into the boom. You can run a hose from the boom to your water tank. Also, depending on where your tank fill is you may be able to use your deck to collect water. It can be as simple as bunching up a towel just 'downhill' from the deck plate so act as a dam. These things work because it is easy to keep the boat clean when away from shore (heck, even away from cities). In tropical areas you tend to get brief, intense storms so you just need to let the first couple of minutes of rain wash away the salt and the start collecting. Not hard to get 5 gallons or more.

The camping water purifiers are not a bad idea if your water is suspect, You only need to use the purifier to clean water for drinking and cooking which is good because they are slow to use. Also, if you can get one with a back-flushing capability it would be good to save on filters.

Good luck.


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## TQA

I had a Jaguar 22 with the pop top and cruised it [2 years ]also had a small RV with no pop top so no standing headroom [10 years.

The ONLY thing I found you had to stand up for was to don tight trousers. Eveything else can be done sitting down.

I would go for it with what you have just be real conservative about the weather.


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## fallard

a MSD with a 2.5 g holding tank can easily get filled in 2 days with 2 people. As you move south, you may find that you need to be outside the 3 mile limit to pump out overboard or otherwise get a legal pumpout at a coastal marina or port. You might have a creative solution for collecting fresh water, but dumping your head could be a limiting factor as you move along the coast, especially if you stay in the ICW.

Up to 10 days at a time offshore? If you are planning to stay as close to shore as you say, you will be dealing with a foul current from the Gulf Stream going south and need to figure out what makes sense in putting miles under your keel. Staying inside is longer and involves drawbridges that will slow you down. If you are going outside and intend to hug the coast, you will need to understand that there are not that many good inlets along the US coast in bad weather and plan accordingly.


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## c_witch

fallard said:


> a MSD with a 2.5 g holding tank can easily get filled in 2 days with 2 people. As you move south, you may find that you need to be outside the 3 mile limit to pump out overboard or otherwise get a legal pumpout at a coastal marina or port. You might have a creative solution for collecting fresh water, but dumping your head could be a limiting factor as you move along the coast, especially if you stay in the ICW.
> 
> Up to 10 days at a time offshore? If you are planning to stay as close to shore as you say, you will be dealing with a foul current from the Gulf Stream going south and need to figure out what makes sense in putting miles under your keel. Staying inside is longer and involves drawbridges that will slow you down. If you are going outside and intend to hug the coast, you will need to understand that there are not that many good inlets along the US coast in bad weather and plan accordingly.


Hiee,

Running down the ICW does not really interest us in the least so we will be ocean sailing. Its my understanding that the Gulfstream 'proper' is well east of where we would intend to be cruising on our way down, although I also understand there are some rather powerful eddies associated with it to the west.

Here in Canada the dumping limit is 7 miles offshore so our course would be taking us more or less 7 to 10 miles off the eastern seaboard or further east/west as conditions dictate.

Keel up we draw slightly less then 2 feet of water so beaching if need be on the lee ward side of a island,spit etc to avoid a nasty frontal system is doable as well as running up a small river/stream etc. I consider anything when one is further than a 24 hour run from land to be offshore so we will for the most part be inshore. One of our larger passages will simply be crossing the Gulf of Maine.

c_witch


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## fallard

c_witch:

If you make it past Cape Hatteras in a 22 ft boat without considering the charms of the ICW, I'll be surprised.

Your storm strategy need a little more work, IMHO, especially the part about beaching.


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## WanderingStar

Don't be quick to reject the ICW. I brought my ketch from Florida to New York. Two days at sea, bad weather drove us inside, five days ICW, thee more days at sea, etc. Parts of the ICW are very wild and beautiful, salt marshes, lonely rivers. There are waterfowl and alligators. It's worth seeing.


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## killarney_sailor

I think that parts of the ICW are fine, but it is not sailing. Might be a good idea to stay inside to miss Hatteras - which means you get to do one of the nicer bits of the ICW. Other than that, just pick your spots. Lots of opportunities to sail. The Gulf Stream is a long way offshore most of the way down. Even off Florida you should have a couple of miles. As for eddies and the like, sometimes they will help and sometimes hinder - such is life. I think some of the posters need to get out sailing a bit more. Maybe it is a winter thing.


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## WanderingStar

ICW for sure isn't sailing, but you do get to make progress while waiting for the weather.


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## chef2sail

7 miles off shore through Diamond Shoals in a 22ft boat....not too safe an idea. As poreviously said inlets can be few and far between, 22 foot boat with a weak auxillary motor coming through a tidal inlet with opposing wind. Difficult at best.

This trip is nothing to sneeze at as many of us are coastal cruisers who build up to a trip down the east coast...in usually larger boats..and some of us actually travel a bit of the distance inside in the ICW for a reason...not because we like going through bridges or like the shallow grounding possibilites.

Plan this trip more thoroughly. Just a suggestion and not meant to be negative or deter your progress.

Dave


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## Lostmt

I agree with the other posters that not doing the ICW you will be missing a lot. But each to their own.

You didn't mention ground tackle. What are your plans here?

As a poor boy freeze dried foods are to costly for us. We do have a number of different package food that can be purchased from any grocery store. Can food can be easily stored in lockers under settee or quarter berth. I know because I have to live on Ensure and I have 60 day supply on board. 

I agree that 2.5 gallon MSD is a little small for 2. You might get 3 day as long as you don't pee in it. Don't use the stored water. Use a jug and pour only what is needed to clean. We lay paper in the bowl then use a very small amount of water to flush. No mess to try to clean. RV paper works best. 

You might be selling yourself short on the gas. We have a 6 and 3 marine gas tanks and carry 2 five gallon cans. We figure 15 miles per gallon and motor sail as much as possible in the ditch. 

If I missed it what are you cooking with? We have a Magma and a 2 burner Coleman. 

We are leaving the end of March in a Starwind 22. The two of us and one Yorkie dog. We will do the ditch because the Gulf is no place for small boats much less the 1000+ oil rigs you have to fight. Oh did I forget the ship traffic. I've done part of the La. and Texas ICW and have found it very interesting.

We are in know hurry to get any place. Plan on enjoying the US coast. So much to see. We don't need to go to some other country to enjoy sailing. Right now the water here is crystal clear and a beautiful green.


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## c_witch

*Big boat little boat *

Hiee,

It seems as though many replies here have been from those with larger boats. While I do value what you have to say, there always seems to be a bias towards anyone planning to sail a route in a smaller boat.

I did grow up in the sunshine state and have spent many hours out in the atlantic and the gulf and am quite aware of the types of weather and how fast they can come about. As I mentioned in my opening of this thread, we will be spending at least a year doing shake down cruising off the coast of Nova Scotia with eventual cruises into and accross the Gulf of Maine, which can be nasty on it own accord ie weather and currents.

While our main water tankage is only 20 gallons we will also be carrying additional water in jugs and adding 10 gallons or so that way. This water is solely for drinking cooking etc as sea water is more then suitable for washing as well as the MSD flushing etc.

We will not be on any formal time schedule to arrive here or there at a particular time and so our head way concerns will be dictated by our stores on board. While we don't particularly enjoy a rough ride we are prepared to deal with it given the size of our boat.

I thought I had mentioned that we have a 2 burner propane stove on board. Anchoring will be via 2 danforths with 100 feet of line and 20 feet of chain on one and 200 feet of line and 20 feet of chain on the other. I have yet to decide about carrying a sea anchor.
Our outboard long shaft at 7 1/2 hp is more then ample to propel our boat even in heavy weather, although that will be tested in the coming shake down cruises.

c_witch


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## chef2sail

I suggest you plot all the passable inlets from North Jersey to Ga first. Look at your distances and strat breaking it down into smaller trips. I would still avoid the Cchesapeak entrance to Morehead City on the outside.

Experienced sailors do unless they travel outside the Gulf Stream in the Hatterass area no m,atter what sized boat..

By breaking you journey into the components it may give you an idea of the bail out or stopping points. Thats the only agenda you need then.

Dave

Safety first


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## travlin-easy

I sincerely believe this would be a dangerous trip for a number of reasons. And, I agree with Dave, stay inside at least until you reach Morehead City, NC. It's a nasty stretch of water, the inlets are among the most dangerous on the East Coast and that tiny outboard motor would never be able to handle the standing waves let along the incredibly strong currents.

Once you arrive in south Florida, that MSD and outside showers is going to be a problem. Most of south Florida is a No Discharge Zone. All sinks, galley and head, must be routed to a holding tank. Yes, you can take an outdoor shower, but the soapy water cannot be discharged overboard. There was a thread pertaining to this on the Sail Net not too long ago, but I'm not sure where it is. You could also Google the Florida Marine Patrol site and get the necessary information about discharging overboard.

As Dave said, "Safety First".

Gary


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## sawingknots

no rules against swimming is there?besides southern fla holds no inspiration for me


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## Lostmt

c_witch said:


> Anchoring will be via 2 danforths with 100 feet of line and 20 feet of chain on one and 200 feet of line and 20 feet of chain on the other. I have yet to decide about carrying a sea anchor.


You did not say the size of your danforths. I carry 2 danforths 8# each as a lunch hook or backup if needed. I would not depend on them holding in bad weather or a wind shift. My main is a 16.5# Bruce with 28' of 1/4 chain and 150' of rode. I will be adding another 22' of chain before we leave. When I drop my anchor I don't want to worry about dragging in the middle of the night when the wind shifts. I also carry a sea anchor.

I can't say about the east coast but here at my location we have what we call the big jetties. Chart 11317 There is no way I would take my 22' boat through them. I've done a number of trips through in a 41' Tartan and every time we had 10 to 12' rollers. Quite a ride in that boat.


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## Lostmt

What about communication? VHF, SSB, Radar, Weather Fax, EPIR and life raft? Planning on being off shore for 10 days wouldn't you need these items.


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## killarney_sailor

If you have not already bought your anchors you might want to consider two anchors of different types rather than two Danforths - would help in different conditions since the Danforths are great where they are great but have problems with some bottom conditions.


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## SVAuspicious

chef2sail said:


> Experienced sailors do unless they travel outside the Gulf Stream in the Hatterass area no m,atter what sized boat.


Well, not me. I cross the Gulf Stream as early as possible if I'm heading to the Bahamas or Caribbean. Heading to Florida I stay closer to Diamond Shoals. Regardless, you need to watch the weather forecasts and you have to know what you are looking at and what it means. Read that twice. *grin*

I've run around the shoals in both directions more times than I can count. The weather can be ugly but more often than not it is fine. The key is watching the forecasts.

Most of my deliveries are on boats bigger than yours which is a factor. I used to have a Catalina Capri 22 and spent some time cruising a Catalina 22 pop-top. You can do it, but you have to account for very slow passages and lots of boat motion. It isn't pretty. I wouldn't do it, but I would have when I was young.

Southbound on your boat stay the heck out of the Gulf Stream or you won't make any progress at all.


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