# Why Are Boats In Europe Cheaper?



## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

I've spent more time on Yachtworld than I want to admit. I usually use the North America only filter for the search area but sometimes I just take off the area filter.

There are times when I've seen very similar boats that are substantially less overseas than ones in the US, all prices in $US. It's not all, just some, but far more than what I see when comparing US boats to US boats. I realize there's a duty to pay and delivery but from what I've been told that amount would not be enough to put similar boats in the same price range.

Looking at the photos and perusing the list of equipment, I can find nothing that would justify such a large price differential. Is it just something that would come out in a survey or is there some other reasons why this exists? Or am I missing something else?

BTW, it seems the areas I most often find this are Croatia and Turkey, though they are not the only areas.


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## theonecalledtom (Jan 2, 2008)

Its just like boats in Mexico being cheaper. Harder to get to and less conveniently placed when you've bought them.


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

Boats are frequently free in the USA... those ones just don't get put on Yacht World. There is also often a fairly large gap in the USA on asking price and sale price.. I don't know if that is the case in Europe.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

IronSpinnaker said:


> There is also often a fairly large gap in the USA on asking price and sale price..


I didn't know that. Any idea about what % the difference is?


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

JulieMor said:


> I didn't know that. Any idea about what % the difference is?


It depends on the survey, but I would guess that the average is between 15-20%


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Yachtworld boats are pretty much always listed through a broker. In the US brokers usually have a 10% fee with a $2k minimum, making it unusual for sellers to use a broker for a boat worth less then $20k.

As a result a lot of boats that are probably worth somewhat less than $20k (like $15k) will be listed for the higher price. Boats that are probably worth less then $10k rarely make it to yachtworld or will be grandly overpriced there.

You should expect to find the less expensive boats on Craigslist, sailboatlistings.com, and other free classifieds services.

The boat that I bought through a broker listed on yachtworld was sold for about 15% under asking, but that is a reference point of 1. I think it had been listed for about 3 months and was going into fall, so the seller was motivated to sell.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Only boats with less than 15 years, particularly boats with less than 10 years are cheaper in Europe. Older boats are cheaper in US.

There are more recent boats in Europe and more older boats in the US. Besides that in the South of Europe almost all countries are in a big Crisis and that drove prices down....a lot. If you want a recent boat at the best price probably the best place to look is Italy or Spain.

There are some big brokers that will not charge anything to a private owner so boats can be sold at better prices. One of the more known is http://www.cosasdebarcos.com/

For Italy try:

http://www.mondialbroker.com/

Regards

Paulo


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

Things I never knew... Thank you!

I had done searches for boats on other websites but it seemed the ones that interested me were also on Yachtworld. So I stopped looking elsewhere.

Paolo, the sites you suggested are interesting. I've done some perusing there already. It certainly would be cool to buy a boat overseas, spend some time getting to know her, then sail her back here. Maybe not practical, but definitely something we'd love to be able to do. Problem is, I can't see us leaving there without taking in all the sights, and that could take years!

When it comes to duty, I've only heard, "It's not that much." The last time was from a salesman at the Annapolis show. So, *how much is "not that much"?*

I'm trying to put together a somewhat realistic cost to the "out the door" price on a used sailboat. Whatever I am able to set aside, I'll keep at least 25% in hand for necessary work to get the boat where I need it to be. But it would be nice to have a reasonable expectation of everything that one pays, besides the cost of the boat, when purchasing a used boat.

The liveaboard dream has been cancelled. It just won't work for us. So we've decided to sell the big house and buy a small house and a small boat. It's really the more practical thing to do, all things being considered.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

JulieMor said:


> ...
> 
> When it comes to duty, I've only heard, "It's not that much." The last time was from a salesman at the Annapolis show. So, *how much is "not that much"?*
> ...


Can't answer your question. I suppose there is also state sales tax, at least in some states.

One thing to consider is that boats in Europe (the EU more specifically) will have VAT tax paid. This can be a lot of money (20% or so). Of course this only makes a difference if you are interested in staying in the area for some time before coming home, but this is what you indicated you thought of.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

I modelled my recent new boat purchase in detail - combining all of the commissioning costs with purchase price, rebates and other factors. I could choose between factory dealer in France, where the boat was manufactured, dealers in the U.K., Germany and Annapolis. Purchasing and particularly commissioning the boat with extras and all the little/big stuff for a new boat (flatware,cushions,safety equipment,SSB,dinghy,etc.) was by far cheaper to do in the USA than at any of the others - and the European VAT wasn't going to be paid since the boat would leave the EU so that wasn't a factor.


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## Sternik (Oct 8, 2010)

Having imported my boat from Europe to Canada, here are some factors (not necessarily applicable to US):
- transportation within Europe, average €3/km (you need to get the boat to the port of exit) + fees to get the boat onto a flatbed
- loading fees onto an ocean freighter €500 (Hamburg, 2009)
- I had to pay 11% duty + 5% GST
- boat must be absolutely clean outside, not growth whatsoever, otherwise vessel is not accepted into the country
- transportation cost was about $14000 (for a load that was close to 40FT length). Price was based on the cubic volume of cargo, including mast)

If you have any specific question PM me, I know a company that will gladly help you if you have already selected your boat


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

My observation is different than you, I found more people (Europeans and Aus) come to US to buy their boat and sail her back to their country. This is also true for all consumer products like cars, camera to clothing. We are lucky.


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## Sternik (Oct 8, 2010)

rockDAWG said:


> My observation is different than you, I found more people (Europeans and Aus) come to US to buy their boat and sail her back to their country. This is also true for all consumer products like cars, camera to clothing. We are lucky.


Used sailboats, allright. Cameras and clothing, sure. There is no 23% VAT. But cars, definitely not. I can't remember last time I saw a US brand vehicle on European roads and I spend on average 2 months each year back in EU. Having said that, European car models purchased in US and shipped back to EU, yes, definitely. Especially after the Banking financial crisis in US.
PS: Just before I shoot my own knee, Ford is very well established in EU, but with cars specifically suited for EU market ie, diesel motors, stiffer suspension etc, which are not available to customers in North America.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> Can't answer your question. I suppose there is also state sales tax, at least in some states.
> 
> One thing to consider is that boats in Europe (the EU more specifically) will have VAT tax paid. This can be a lot of money (20% or so). Of course this only makes a difference if you are interested in staying in the area for some time before coming home, but this is what you indicated you thought of.


I don't know how it is done but in some cases the VAT can be recovered if you are not an European. Not sure in what cases but certainly in boats that have not paid VAT (charter or boats used for racing) and partially in boats with a leasing pending and for recent boats it is almost all in Italy and France (and many in Spain).

Regards

Paulo


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

rockDAWG said:


> My observation is different than you, I found more people (Europeans and Aus) come to US to buy their boat and sail her back to their country. This is also true for all consumer products like cars, camera to clothing. We are lucky.


Yes, but what they are buying is older boats with way more than 15 years

Those are cheaper in the US.

Regards

Paulo


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## Sternik (Oct 8, 2010)

If the vessel is exported outside of EU member states, VAT does not apply. If VAT is included in the price, the price is reduced by the value of VAT. There is a special customs declaration form (the name differs between the EU countries) that selling party submits with the boat's travel documents. It is then stamped and authorised by customs officer at the port of exit (of EU), and send back to the seller. With this document the selling party is exempted from submitting VAT value to their government. In essence this document is the proof the goods (a boat in this case) has left the EU economic region.


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## cherev (Sep 6, 2000)

I've read of an alternative to importing a boat. A working couple moors it 'tween vacations in an off-shore location, say in the BVI, French Caribbean, or Cuba, and it never incurs import duties unless and until it's finally brought to a US port as an 'old' used vessel. 

Sunsail and Moorings must periodically sell their rental boats too. One could go for sailing vacations and check out what's on offer.


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