# Harbor Freight 316 stainless swageless fittings



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi all,

Found some 316 stainless steel quick attach eye terminal and stud terminal fittings that look exactly like those made by Blue Wave/Suncor at Harbor Freight. Wondering if anyone has used these before?

For 4 mm wire (.156, about 5/32"), it has a breaking strength of 2700lbs and working load of 1750 lbs which appears to be the load of 1x19 wire. 

They are priced at $7 per fitting.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Id be VERY Leary..nothing at harbor fright has the same Rockwell properties as main stream stuff...where do you think all that scrap steel China is getting from us goes..

I like Harbor fright don't get me wrong...But I expect to have issues with their stuff and I'm seldom disappointed..

It doesnt matter per say with a 24" Crescent wrenchor a ball pien hammer but trusting my mast to their stuff I would not.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

"316" is a standard! I would buy them. They are probably an exact copy of someone elses design. If it were my rig, though, it would be hand-spliced eyes.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd point out that the Suncor fittings are not really well suited for rigging. They might be acceptable for lifelines, but I would NOT use them for standing rigging.


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

JProcter said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Found some 316 stainless steel quick attach eye terminal and stud terminal fittings that look exactly like those made by Blue Wave/Suncor at Harbor Freight. Wondering if anyone has used these before?
> 
> ...


Is this what you are looking at?










If so, I can't see how it would be of any use in rigging a boat. It is designed for railings and other light duty applications. 
According to the website, it's only 7 cents. It's probably worth twice that. 

- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

sailingdog said:


> I'd point out that the Suncor fittings are not really well suited for rigging. They might be acceptable for lifelines, but I would NOT use them for standing rigging.


Why have you come to that conclusion? According to a test that was done comparing their fittings to Sta-lok, Norseman and swages, the Quick Attach came out on top. 

Here's a link to a previous thread where I posted the article.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/48077-sta-lok.html


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

Okay, whoa, I am changing my previous opinion. Just go with hand spliced eyes. Get heavy thimbles, and serve the strand ends with small nylon.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Tager while i see a lot of what your talking about on the classic boats in the area you do realize there is no way to do this on most modern rigs


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## merc2dogs (Jun 5, 2004)

I noticed those last year while at HF, intended to do some internet searching so I could figure out who's design they were, but forgot about them.

Not to defend HF, but most of what they sell are direct clones of another product, generally built right on the same line as the 'good' product. They are generally cheaper because they piggy back on the name brand product's production run, and avoid the setup, market research, and development costs of the higher priced product. (hey, I'll give you $100 plus costs if you run an extra 1000 parts for me) Many times the HF product can not be distinguished from the name brand part.
Nothing wrong with the product, but in my opinion it's 'theft', but it's also the cost of business with Chinese manufacturing.

Ken.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

tager said:


> "316" is a standard! I would buy them. They are probably an exact copy of someone else's design. If it were my rig, though, it would be hand-spliced eyes.


It may be a standard ..but what I'm saying is they don't hit it.

I bought a box of their SS screws..you twist them in half before you get them half way seated home.

I have gathered you think there is a cheap equivalent for everything...well that is correct..there is..and other then the Marine store mark up that you can sometimes usurp your way around...you in my experience get what you pay for.


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## Shortman (Feb 12, 2006)

*Agree w/stillraining*

cheap wrenches are one thing, rigging is another. There is a huge variety in the quality of Asian mfg. goods. Some of it is excellent, some far from it.


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

Just try to put a cheater on one of stainless steel Chinese wenches the come in the West Marine 29.99 boat tool kit.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

bubb2 said:


> Just try to put a cheater on one of stainless steel Chinese wenches the come in the West Marine 29.99 boat tool kit.


I know what you mean Bubb..I have bought a couple pair of their canvas snap installation pliers...I can deform them with one hand trying to install the snaps.. ...They are lured into the Chinese tool market as well...but I believe and (Hope ) there screws/bolts are the real McCoys.


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## SVPrairieRose (Oct 10, 2009)

*west marine fasteners..*



Stillraining said:


> I know what you mean Bubb..I have bought a couple pair of their canvas snap installation pliers...I can deform them with one hand trying to install the snaps.. ...They are lured into the Chinese tool market as well...but I believe and (Hope ) there screws/bolts are the real McCoys.


In my experience the WM fasteners that are sold in bulk are of decent quality but are typically WAY overpriced when compared to the fastener warehouse near me that does retail as well. The hardware WM sell packaged however is low grade crap. It is labelled as 316 yet the screw heads strip everytime and I have broken a bunch off too. I have deduced over the years that there is never, EVER a reason to shop at West Marine for anything.... ever.

EVER!


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

SVPrairieRose said:


> In my experience the WM fasteners that are sold in bulk are of decent quality but are typically WAY overpriced when compared to the fastener warehouse near me that does retail as well. The hardware WM sell packaged however is low grade crap. It is labelled as 316 yet the screw heads strip everytime and I have broken a bunch off too. I have deduced over the years that there is never, EVER a reason to shop at West Marine for anything.... ever.
> 
> EVER!


A Good observation on their screws and bolts that I will remember..

I'm in total agreement and i do most of my shopping on line form Defender...but sometimes you need it yesterday and hey lets face it they are handy if a block or two from the boat.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

There is a cheap alternative to everything. Spliced eyes are strong, free, and seaworthy. The only reasoning I can see for using swages is that they look cool, are faster to set up, and offer some negligible performance advantage. It's easy to forget that they are prone to failure. Using 1x19 wire largely precludes the use of spliced eyes, but 7x7 wire serves the same purpose, with only slightly more stretch.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Piece of cake


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## meuritt (Aug 25, 2008)

*Been There, Done That*

hand splicing 7x19 galvanized, parceled and served on a previous sailboat, a trad design. One of the most rewarding jobs I've ever done.

Current rigging job, modern design boat, swage on top, Norseman fitting below.

wouldn't hesitate to do splicing again, just needs to be on a boat where it looks right.

Mike
San Rafael, CA


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

There is nothing wrong with splicing wire to make standing rigging, but seriously, how many people are really capable of doing it. How many people even splice their own line for running rigging. 

I would venture to guess that there is considerably less than one percent of boat owners who could master wire splicing quickly enough to make it a good idea for them to make their own rigging.


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

tommays said:


> Piece of cake


Actually, the illustrations are fairly easy. That's whats commonly called a molly hogan splice. 
The one in the photo, not so easy.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

In the Oil Field we called the drawings example "Okie-eyes" I Would not have one of those on my boat for all the beer in Germany.. We would put a couple cable clamps on the tails to secure them down...the last thing I want to do is Roughneck on my boat.

Knotty...is it possible to get the second pictures method of weaving in the tails to where you don't have fish kooks all over the place?


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

Stillraining said:


> In the Oil Field we called the drawings example "Okie-eyes" I Would not have one of those on my boat for all the beer in Germany.. We would put a couple cable clamps on the tails to secure them down...the last thing I want to do is Roughneck on my boat.
> 
> Knotty...is it possible to get the second pictures method of weaving in the tails to where you don't have fish kooks all over the place?


Don't ask me. I have three swaging machines. :laugher

Seriously though, yes. After the splice is served with seizing wire, there won't be any meat hooks.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

knothead - I splice my own running rigging. Have for years and learned when I was in High School. I love marlinspike seamanship and have Hervey Garrett Smith's book (didn't even have to look up the name or spelling).

Splicing is rewarding, confidence building, and satisfies the cheapskate in me. I can do 3 strand in my sleep, but need to glance at instructions for yacht braid for a minute or two. Parallel core is the hardest for me but can git 'er done. Never had the opportunity or need to splice wire, though. But I'd give it a go if necessary. 

But we're so far off topic that I'll shut up except to say that I would not buy HF fittings except for ornamental purposes. I own a couple of their floor woodworking tools and only buy them for non critical tasks like a sanding table. Never for something that my life would depend upon.


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

Sabreman said:


> knothead - I splice my own running rigging. Have for years and learned when I was in High School. I love marlinspike seamanship and have Hervey Garrett Smith's book (didn't even have to look up the name or spelling).
> 
> Splicing is rewarding, confidence building, and satisfies the cheapskate in me. I can do 3 strand in my sleep, but need to glance at instructions for yacht braid for a minute or two. Parallel core is the hardest for me but can git 'er done. Never had the opportunity or need to splice wire, though. But I'd give it a go if necessary.
> 
> But we're so far off topic that I'll shut up except to say that I would not buy HF fittings except for ornamental purposes. I own a couple of their floor woodworking tools and only buy them for non critical tasks like a sanding table. Never for something that my life would depend upon.


"The Marlinespike Sailor" by Hervey Garrett Smith was in some ways, the most influential book in my life. 

My only point here is that it takes a certain amount of time and dedication to master splicing. Especially wire. Especially wire that you are staking your life on. 
Not too many people want to commit to that. You and Tager have my respect. But all those who rely on a reliable and honest local rigger to swage them up a set of stainless steel standing rigging every decade or so have my respect too.


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## LakeEscape (Jul 18, 2007)

HF, Northern Tool ... all the same junk. NT is good for trailer parts and pressure washers only. I enjoy spending cold winter mornings, cleaning up my running rigging, splicing in new shackles and making dock lines. When it comes to the wire ... riggingonly.com.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

LakeEscape said:


> HF, Northern Tool ... all the same junk.


Hmm.....

*Northern Tool Brands:* Honda, Dewalt, Generac, Sharp Solar Panels, Air X wind generators, Xantrex, Husqvarna, Troy-Bilt, Super Winch, Warn, Ramsey Winch, Bobcat, Wayne Pump, SHURflo Pumps, Omni-Filter, Kohler Engines, Brinkmann, Lacrosse, Fulton, Reese Hitches, Schumacher, Deka, Hobart Welders, Lincoln Electric, Wilton, Jet, ExTech, Ingersol Rand, Porter Cable, Wagner, Milwaukee, Bosch, 3M and many, many more

*
Harbor Freight Brands:* ....................none that I can find in their catalog.............


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

This was based on a conversation I had with one of the riggers over at riggingonly.com, which is my local rigging shop. It had to do with the fact that the Suncor swageless terminals are not good for extended periods of time IIRC, due to a maintenance requirement particular to the Suncor design.


knothead said:


> Why have you come to that conclusion? According to a test that was done comparing their fittings to Sta-lok, Norseman and swages, the Quick Attach came out on top.
> 
> Here's a link to a previous thread where I posted the article.
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/48077-sta-lok.html


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

sailingdog said:


> This was based on a conversation I had with one of the riggers over at riggingonly.com, which is my local rigging shop. It had to do with the fact that the Suncor swageless terminals are not good for extended periods of time IIRC, due to a maintenance requirement particular to the Suncor design.


Thanks SD. If you can remember the specifics, I would be interest in learning about it. I didn't know that there were any maintenance requirements.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

I would not suggest using a molly hogan splice on your boat, which is known as a "field expedient" it is meant to be very quick and easy to set up, and pretty good at the job. However, the liverpool splice is free, pretty simple, and proven strong. It is used when testing the maximum load of wire rope. I don't think they look out of place either, to me they look salty! 

The point is, if you gave me a nail, a flat rock, and some wire rope, I could put a termination in it. If I gave you a checkbook, and some wire rope, you could put a termination in it. 

But who can do it in the middle of the ocean? Or even in a remote community? 

ME.


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

tager said:


> If I gave you a checkbook, and some wire rope, you could put a termination in it.


Who you talking to hotshot? 

How bout a splice off. Anywhere, anytime.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm game... how many tucks? 5,7, or 9?


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Nope..I can do it as well and I will be done hours before you will be...some cost to it yes..but I like spending money..

On a side note...One of my daughters put one of these together at age 13...good luck with that with your method if you should say became incapacitated....also you will shorten the cable by a min of 2' to get it done...

Its a nice thing to say you are capable of doing and worthy of learning ..no argument there.....I'm a pretty good horse rider...but its now still a horribly outdated method of delivering the mail.

But Iv' got 3 horses for sale if you interested in thoes as well...


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

Splices aren't outdated at all. They are still used in industry. Fancy yachties just feel the need to buy shiny doodads. Like quick attach terminals. They look cool, and they are quick and easy. Those are the only benefits of swaged or mechanical terminals. They are not as foolproof, they are not as strong, they tend to be the part of the rig that fails and puts your stick in the drink, and they are expensive.

I'm a pretty good sailor, but it's an outdated way of delivering the mail. 

I can jump horses too, as well as plunk my bum in a western saddle and grab the horn, which imho takes no skill.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Put me down for 100 on Knotty..


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

tager said:


> I'm game... how many tucks? 5,7, or 9?


How about first a three strand eye splice, then a three strand long splice, then a three strand rope chain splice. Then we'll move onto a three strand rope to wire splice. Then we'll grab the double braid, then the high tech stuff for the core to core splices. 
And we won't forget the end to end splices.

What are you trying to prove anyway? That splicing is good. No sh!t Sherlock. Who's gonna argue that. 
My point is that most of the people that own boats aren't gonna spend the time, effort and blisters to learn how to do it in a way that is both professional and cost effective. 
A lawyer or doctor is really making a poor investment of time if he gets to the point where he is able to splice wire with the same proficiency that he practices law or medicine. And even if he did, he ain't gonna get paid for his time nearly as well.

I completely get that it's good to have skills that in dire circumstances might save your life. It's good to at least be familiar with the concepts. But most boaters are much more interested in sailing than splicing and I don't blame them. 
As a matter of fact, I encourage them in that way of thinking because I like to eat.
By the way, would you do your own surgery?


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

My NEW boat is a 1981 and that shiny NAVTEC stuff lasted till 2008 and still looked fine 

I felt i would be pushing my luck to do ANOTHER season of racing SO i plonked down the outrageous sum of 700 dollars on some more shiny stuff that will be fine for another 15 years EASY

So that's like 46 bucks a year for rock solid standing rigging that included sending in my old stuff so they could be sure it would fit 


Now my new OLD 1970 boat might be a bit more BUT i look at costs over a products useful live.

I do ALL my own stuff and i am cheep BUT there's just places you cant cut corners


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

knothead said:


> By the way, would you do your own surgery?


I think he would...after all its cheaper there for better..:laugher

All kidding aside ... I wouldn't mind learning whiling away the time somewhere...but I don't see it as a viable modern day connection anymore on a plastic boat..Too big and bulky...JMHO...but maybe on a ferro


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## jmolan (Sep 5, 2009)

For me so much of why I like sailing is the boat.....ahhh.....condition. I love marlinspike skills and applying them. I like have really well placed items that work well. The right halyards (I built) etc. Maybe we should get a marlinspike thread going.
I was going to post some pics of my lifelines (1/4" Dynex Lashed for tension, no "hardwear") but the photo posting here is so lame I give up. Examples below of my boat and another that were recently re-rigged.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

jmolan said:


> For me so much of why I like sailing is the boat.....ahhh.....condition. I love marlinspike skills and applying them. I like have really well placed items that work well. The right halyards (I built) etc. Maybe we should get a marlinspike thread going.
> I was going to post some pics of my lifelines (1/4" Dynex Lashed for tension, no "hardwear") but the photo posting here is so lame I give up. Examples below of my boat and another that were recently re-rigged.


Hey Jim...Hows it going...Good to see you posting.

Yes you have taken your boat to a very high standard Jim...but it is not Harbor Frieght Hardware or Galvanized cable..

Buy the way is the spare room available??


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Splicing is fine if you are proficient, most are not.

A good friend with a Sabre 362 kept offering to do my double braid splices for me. I politely declined because I have an inside connection at Yale Cordage and can get my splices done for about $12.00 - $15.00 and never seen better splices anywhere. These guys do all the splicing for the military helicopter extraction lines and lots of work for the military.

So the long story short is that my buddy with the 362 thought he could save money by not buying Yale Polydyne mooring pendants. He spliced his own and lo and behold his boat wound up on the shore.... Did he save money? Nope he lost about 2K of hull deductible and a good chunk of the sailing season, can't put a price on that, all to save a few pennies.

Why would I even consider doing this myself when I have access to top quality riggers and splicers? I can do double braid and parallel core, and have done, but don't because I am not willing to dedicate my time, based on what I make per hour, when I can come out multiples ahead in a per hour cost paying a pro to do it.

I can't even begin to touch a splice this smooth nor will I dedicate the time to do so.. Yale Vizzion spliced by Yale Cordage:


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## merc2dogs (Jun 5, 2004)

Just because they take your credit card, doesn't mean you're getting a 'professional' job.

Professional in modern business simply means that they get a paycheck for doing it, often with nothing more than a "that's the gas, there's the brake, and this is the clutch" training session.

Browse the forums, compare 'professional' (IE factory) work, with 'amateur' work done on boat interiors.
Also, consider that most boatyard jobs I've seen listed pay between $11 and $18 an hour with -no experience required-.
I think I'd rather have an old craftsman do the work on my boat.

Ken.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd point out that learning how to splice is a good thing, because there will be times where you may need a splice, where there are no riggers to pay to do the splice for you. 

Merc2Dogs point about what a professional is is a very valid one. I've seen some excellent work done by amateurs and some lousy work done by pros. All being a professional means in the modern context is that the IRS knows you get paid to do it.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

OK..To get the thread back on track ..

It is the use of cheap Harbor fright SS clone fittings for wire and wire splicing ..not rope..

Which is more easily learned or at least to some acceptable outcome, easier to Handel to be sure, has more uses and can arguably be a wise thing for a cruiser to know how to do.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Spliced a 6' section of 5/32" wire rope using the eye fittings.

Lifted and held 15 bags of cement on a pallet, about 1600 lbs. Even jiggled the pallet up and down a bit and still held. 

So they'll be going on the boat. Hard to beat $150 for complete double lifelines, including wire and all hardware.


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## SVPrairieRose (Oct 10, 2009)

JProcter said:


> Spliced a 6' section of 5/32" wire rope using the eye fittings.
> 
> Lifted and held 15 bags of cement on a pallet, about 1600 lbs. Even jiggled the pallet up and down a bit and still held.
> 
> So they'll be going on the boat. Hard to beat $150 for complete double lifelines, including wire and all hardware.


Glad you did a load test and can be comfortable with these on your boat, just be sure to either replace the cone of the terminal you tested, or for $7 just replace the whole unit. The terminals are reusable, the cones are not.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

I would be weary of corrosion problems. Then again, I am weary of corrosion problems with everything on my boat.


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## casioqv (Jun 15, 2009)

I love this eye splice idea- after spec'ing the price on sta-lok fittings.

For about $150 I can get enough 316 stainless wire and thimbles to re-rig my C22! I'll probably re-use my silicon bronze turnbuckle bodies, but replace the screws and toggles with 316 stainless also.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I think I read somewhere that if you're bending wire around thimbles 7 x 7 or 7 x 19 is a better choice than 1 x 19 which is stiffer. 
Palawan, the S&S designed 58' aluminum boat once owned by Tom Watson is rigged with 7 x 19 shrouds and rod forestay, but with Norseman ends on the shrouds. 1966 Robert Derecktor S & S Auxiliary sloop Sail Boat For Sale
Brian


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

mitiempo said:


> I think I read somewhere that if you're bending wire around thimbles 7 x 7 or 7 x 19 is a better choice than 1 x 19 which is stiffer.
> Palawan, the S&S designed 58' aluminum boat once owned by Tom Watson is rigged with 7 x 19 shrouds and rod forestay, but with Norseman ends on the shrouds. 1966 Robert Derecktor S & S Auxiliary sloop Sail Boat For Sale
> Brian


That's interesting about the 7X19. I'll have to take a look at Palawan's rigging next time I am up at the yard...


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*We are all weary of corrosion problems...*



tager said:


> I would be weary of corrosion problems. Then again, I am weary of corrosion problems with everything on my boat.


but we are wary of weak fittings.


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## jmolan (Sep 5, 2009)

Better to eliminate wire. H.Freight wire would give me the ebee jebee's after it's been exposed to salt water and time. Links to rope solutions that I did to my boat below. Lost 40 Lb.s up high and came in twice as strong as SS wire.


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