# Am I Crazy for Considering a Hinckley Pilot Sloop two?



## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

When Googling "Hinckley Pilot 35" one of the first links to pop up is a SailNet thread titled, "Am I Crazy for Considering a Hinckley Pilot Sloop." Early in that thread there are some strongly worded sentiments by individuals who are avowed critics of boat designs from that era. Those comments influenced our family as we searched for our first sailboat. Fortunately our search lasted long enough that we came to understand what we wanted out of a boat and chose a Hinckley Pilot 35. The purpose of this post is to provide an informed owner's perspective on this vessel. The target audience is those looking at their first boat that, for whatever reason, have the CCA era boats (1960's designs) on their short list. What follows are my personal observations.

Hinckley Ownership: 10,000 View
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Sailboats are expensive and Hinckley's more so than most. 

Hinckley is the Aston Martin of the sailing world. Driving it makes you feel good and it elicits lavish attention. When not using it you keep it in the garage. Keeping to a regular service schedule feels more like a shared event than a burden.

"Birds of a feather fly together." As a Hinckley owner you will likely be drawn into the upper-end (price wise) boating community. You will be invited into the magazine-photo "yachting" society.

The Hinckley Pilot 35 is a classic by any definition.

The Cost
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Quality costs money and top-end owners have a tendency to keep their equipment meticulously maintained. For both of these reasons you are going to spend significantly more for a Hinckley than most other boats, all other things being equal. Once you become that owner the annual costs are going to be significantly higher. Luxuries such as indoor winter storage suddenly don't seem so crazy. Keeping all that teak shipshape is an added expense. Most of the remaining costs are similar to production boats but you are more likely to maintain/replace sooner. No matter how you slice it…Hinckleys are expensive.

The Culture
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If you plan on sailing in the presence of others you need to be okay with constant attention. I've often said that now I know what it feels like to be a beautiful woman. You will be given special treatment such as that prime dockage at the head of the pier. You will find yourself in raft-ups with similar quality boats and historical beauties.

The Pilot 35 Boat
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Pilot 35's were designed as sailboats with everything being considered for that purpose. The interior is small (compared to production boats). The bunks are made for sleeping, the head for basic needs, the galley for preparing food, the table for eating. Simple, tasteful, and functional. While not a space you'd often want to host a crowd it is great for drinks with a favored friend. I've seen it said that the Pilot is a good daysailer, which I can only imagine is a McMansion conditioned statement. We've done three week trips with a family of four and been completely comfortable. Sailing by day, dinner, drinks, plenty of room for board games, and a place to sleep. In my opinion this is a boat that provides everything you'd want on longer trips for a small number of people.

Finally…Does it Sail?
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Before I knew anything about sailing an owner asked me if I wanted to crew during races. I asked, "Sailboats actually race?" He responded, "Sure. It's like fat kids racing bicycles…uphill." Keep that in mind when considering buying a sailboat, "fast" is a relative term. That said, being heavier the Pilot is slower than modern production boats. If a Pilot 35 takes 195 seconds to complete a mile, then a Catalina 35 should finish in 144 seconds under the same conditions.

However being narrow and heavy has the advantage of slicing the waves instead of slamming into them. When the wind reaches the point of retiring newer boats, the Pilot 35 is just finding her sweet spot. It is sometimes said that Pilot's are wet with spray. My observation that the few days a year that this is true is when it is so windy and rough that most of the other boats aren't actually sailing. 

The boat handles well and is small enough to make single-handing a breeze. 

Conclusions
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The Pilot 35 is our first sailboat and we've had her for six years now. We love being on her to the tune of 70+ days per year (7 month season). She sails great, looks great, and makes us feel great. The Pilot 35 is solidly built. Ours will be 50 in 2018 and I have every reason to think she will be just as strong in another 50.

Reasons not to buy a Pilot: (1) Slower than newer/lighter boats. (2) Expensive. (3) Less volumous than production boats.

Reasons to buy: (1) High quality. (2) Will retain value. (3) Yachting lifestyle. (4) Feels like an old-school sailboat. If you appreciate the finer things in life you would be doing yourself a favor by viewing several production boats (Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau, etc) then view a well-maintained Hinckley. After that…well…Welcome to the lifestyle


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Good on you. Have personally weathered a storm in a Pilot. Issue was compounded by a serious leak due to engine intake shearing at its flange. However, cannot say enough about the basic hulls seaworthiness and ride. Better than the B40 in how I'm effected. Even in those extreme conditions no one among the four of us was hurt moving about the boat. We blew out sails but the boat stayed together. Two went down to hypothermia messing with the leak but I and another chap were able to manage as she is easy and predictable to steer. 
Have limited experience with state of the art cutting edge boats but continue to believe relatively narrow boats with at least some rocker and some slackness to the bilge generate the opportunity for a more comfortable ride. Of course there are pearls and swine in any group of boats. You have a pearl.
Still, there are some great sea boats in that range. Hess' last design - the channel cutter 34', crealock's 34, Paine's Sarah, and your boat. You are fortunate to own her.


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## nhsail (Aug 7, 2000)

As an owner of a 54 yr old Bermuda 40, I can echo much of the sentiments. Hinckley never built a bad boat that I have heard of. You can fall into the brightwork fetish or you can go and sail them hard, both work well. When visiting the yard in years gone bye it was clear that I was probably one of the few owners who did my own maintenance, and frankly didn't keep the brightwork up, but as the yard guys noted, they have a lot of polished pretty ones, they do enjoy seeing those that get to go somewhere. 

Solid simple construction, sea kindly and pretty, she's a boat to be sailed not hosting dockside parties better left to pontoon boats, and Hunters. We race a yawl, in the Oakland Estuary, and short tacking (150 yr width) a 40 ft 20,000 lb boat that rates 177 sec a mile PHRF is akin to taking Grandpa's Old Lincoln down to the Gymkhana and going around the cones. 

Its fun, not particularly fast.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Did several Marions on a friends B40.Once on a center cockpit 59' ketch. Always felt safe. Good sea berths. Sleep only interrupted by the clunk of the centerboard. The B40 is another great boat but must admit have a special place for the hank hinckley ocean 39 (prior boat partner bought one and got to sail her a lot) and the SWs. 
Saw the new B50. Very slick and beautifully executed but leaves me cold. For that kind of mega bucks would get the Ocean Morris without the self tacking jib. Oh well dream on........
Still similar to Swan's new production offerings Hinckley after decades of hiatus from sailboats has moved on. Coastal and racing emphasized. Three staterooms. Pick it up with one hand. Sail it with one finger. Amazing. 
But those S&S boats are classics. NH you're right they never built a bad boat. It's just different now.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Okay I'll bite, is there a message here? You are trying to tell us What?


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

The message is that the Pilot 35 is a solidly built, classic vessel that sails well. It is a great choice for those willing to pay extra for a quality boat that makes you glad the trip took four hours instead of three.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Just random thoughts Denise.
Amazed how fast current boats are. The Bermuda record was once again broken. The ingenuity of these feats of engineering is breathe taking and is now seen in both ( abet high end) monos and multis. You have to marvel and applaud these advances. Still when you look back at these older boats which are now considered slow, cramped and varnish hogs you realize how far boat design has come.
Just like so many aspects of our lives have dramatically changed (a phone call is rare a text is common) leading to a faster life I just feel something is lost. Just like the warmth of a human voice and appreciation of the nuances of meaning imported by the inflection of that voice is absent when you receive a text.
The OP posts about his love for his boat. I've never owned a Hinckley but appreciate why he feels that way. I have no interest in the "lifestyle ", I have no interest in "branding", but delight in anything that does its job well preserving an aesethic sense for decades to come. If I was able to indulge myself in a classic of that period it wouldn't be a Hinckley but rather a concordia yawl or cheribini ketch understanding these are also archaic designs. They require a large expenditure in energy to keep in bright. They offer less space and creature comforts. Their performance pales compared with what being launched now. But there's an elegance and sturdy solidity that's not to be denied in those boats and the Hinckleys discussed. I was just singing the praises of the elegance of the entire Hinckley line of the past and how although beautiful gave a secure, solid ride even in adverse conditions. 
They don't make Dusenbergs or Bugattis any more. Doesn't mean you can't appreciate and respect them for the work of art they are.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

It's an old boat with old design, only the name keeps the price high, 50 yr old fiberglass is old,. Small cockpit, long tiller? Narrow beam, 

"We don't give tours of our operations" I was told when I stopped by when in Maine many years ago ... what is Funny , I didn't ask for a tour! I don't have room in my mind for elitism so yeah, it's crazy.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Um, I gotta say :worthless:


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Denise agree with the elitism going no where. As said have no interest in "lifestyle " nonsense. Living in the eyes of others is not an authentic life. Still shop at Wally World, use the hardware store not the chandlery, do my own work whenever I have the skill set. But they are pretty, solid boats.
Think you see the same elitism on the other end as well. The matching shirts, no tattoos crowd stepping off their couple of month old cf rocket ship. It's unfortunate. They would benefit from reading and integrating the transcendentalists or existentialists in their lives.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Any glass boat that old is very very likely to have water permeation in the stringers, keel shoe, and decks, just because high end builders were exacting and had "higher" standards, they were still using "state of the art" techniques in the 60s;. meaning they used wooden boat designs adopted to glass. And the "more is better" concept. Thousands of samples have proven, thick fiberglass presented problems with wet out and curing of the resin. But what do I know


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

Here you go eherlihy:


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

deniseO30 said:


> Okay I'll bite, is there a message here? You are trying to tell us What?


It's a review, and I applaud the OP for posting one. For me, it is a window into a world that I'll never see (as would a review of a Macgregor/Tattoo 26 - but for other reasons).

BarryL posted/started a review thread of my boat here; http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-reviews/55998-1986-oday-35-review.html and I am grateful that he did so.

Perhaps a review thread of the O'day 30, and Outbound 46 (which, while not a Hinkley, is close enuf for me ) would be in order?

And, I still feel that :worthless:


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

Denise,

The purpose of the thread is to present an informed perspective on these boats. I do all of my own maintenance meaning I've gotten to know the construction very well after six years. Your statement " very very likely to have water permeation" is uninformed. My fiberglass gets an annual moisture content survey, does yours? In that time water has been found in one six inch square area due to fastener bedding needing attention which was promptly resolved.

I repeatedly pointed out advantages of production boats, and opted not to be critical on issues where others on this forum could offer a more knowledgeable perspective. I'm aware that some fiberglass boats newer than mine have problems with blistering and wood cored decks that can get destroyed by water intrusion. But it would be inappropriate for me to make global statements that all newer boats are suffering from these maladies. Perhaps we could share that courtesy.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

I admit it. I like to look at beautiful boats. That photo says it all to me. 

And I also admit, it's much more cost effective to look at them to own them, but I've been unable to take my own advice on this matter.


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

One more eherlihy:


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

One of my sailing buddies describes these things like an MG with wire rim wheels. Some people would say, what are you talking about, who'd want that?

Pilot berths, gleaming brightwork, yea, it's working for me!


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Very pretty boat.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

I appreciate your review and honest account of Hinckley owner Mystique.

Speed, space, new design improvements, all matter but it's the sum of how a sailboat performs that makes it a great sailboat that continues to be popular, or not.

There's bound to be a little snobbism(I didn't detect any in the OP), in owning some of the pedigree boats.

Here's another example: Concordia yawls. We have many of them that store and are cared for in our harbor.

These boats are one of the most preserved class I know of. Rarely do you see new equipment or upgrades.

Is that Concordia Snobbism? I don't think so.

In comparison to newer 40' coastal cruising designs, they're narrow, small below, a little slower, etc. etc.

Yet for todays owners, these boats still perform very well taking a couple or family coastal cruising for a few weeks or a season. They're as happy with the way these boats sail and perform as cruisers as the original owners some as many as 70 years ago.

These are usually experienced sailors so the Concordia owners cup is full, as far as they're concerned.

Despite the ample means of owners that pay a yard to maintain these boats(in my harbor), they don't change them.

I can think of many much newer designs that aren't fairing so well in popularity today. Same is true of most of the Hinckley's.










Speaking of snobbism, some Concordia owners will look down their nose at Hinckley's. That is wooden boat snobbism. It's out there.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

For me it's kind of like looking at vintage Playboy magazines. Ah, the nostalgia...
Keep those pictures coming.


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

Lovely boat, nice pictures!! Beauty being in the eye of the beholder, I think that most boats are beautiful.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

I don't have a great photo of a Pilot but this is my favorite of a B40.


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

As long as the thread is already hijacked...here is a favorite Bermuda 40 shot:


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

I'll bring the thread back on track. Here's a few Pilots.

One in the rain in Northeast Harbor. The ports make me think it's one of the earliest?










Pilot owners sail. Here's one sailing into the Fox Island Thoroughfare in Penobscot Bay. I've been told by more than one person that the Pilot is a better sailer than the B40. Any truth?










And another on laundry day. This could be a charter boat. Many of the Hinckley's are in the charter biz.


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## nhsail (Aug 7, 2000)

Scorning an old boat and an old design is a matter of taste, one can as easily scorn anything or person that's from another era. If you want to go fast, why bother with sails? If you want to host 15 people why not a pontoon boat? If you crave minimal maintenance, why not have an aluminum john boat. Perhaps those are better suited to your style and taste, if you seek those attributes as primary. I own a boat to sail it, whiling away pleasant hours, thrashing along on a passage, banging around short courses and outsailing the modern boats, and gliding along into the sunset in turn.

There's are reasons that a >50 yr old Bermuda 40 will sell for her original price , and in many cases more, while Hunters, Catalinas, Coronados et al are often scrapped at < 30 yrs. Call it mystique, if you will, the S&S or Tripp design (similar on the BI 40 and Bermuda 40) works well in thin water, reaches beautifully, goes to weather adequately and takes a family as far as they want to travel. Hand built by boat builders, not produced by minimum labor wages with chop guns, they have joinery and furnishing that are well thought out and fittings that are made to last, not sourced from the lowest cost vendor. These are boats that are made to go out of sight of land, not be weekend cottages. Their owners in general along the coast of Maine already have the "cottages", which is why the DS 42 and picnic boats are so popular.

Newer models have newer methods and materials, and the prices reflect that, entry level sailboat from Hinckley these days is Hinckley - SW42 Specifications and a brokerage SW 42 at 3 yrs old goes north of a million, so the new ones are likely a bit more. As each is made to order, each is priced to reflect the options and choices of interior, fittings and furnishings as well as equipment.

The factory supports the old girls, when many of the above mentioned brands are as long gone as their creations, and Hincklely owners pass them down as legacies for generations, my son will inherit Lioness in 15 yrs. I've met owners who showed up in SW Harbor to take possession and had a factory rep decide to sail with them to Florida, ensuring that they could handle their boat with skill. Its just part of the service, as much as being able to email or call with a technical question and have somebody who's competent and speaks english give you an answer that makes sense. That in itself is of value, much as the sense of belonging, call it lifestyle, or affinity and affiliation, when you see a Talaria you know the heritage.

If you've ever owned a classic firearm, automobile, or boat, or even a well made bicycle, you understand that it's not about performance that stands up to modern engineering, as much as distinctive style that set it apart in its time and withstands the erosion of history. If you've fired a sub MOA Swiss rifle, driven a Porsche over 5000 rpm around a decreasing radius turn, or taken an Ibis BowTi down a trail, you'll have the same sense of appreciation for fine design, engineering and manufacturing, that gives you a vessel that has more capability than you will likely ever test.

And you can get your supplies at Wally world, just get your sanders from Festool


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Great post NH. Can't give you a like as I'm on a cell. 
Would add being on a Concordia with its original winches still working. Leaving padanarum jig and jigger everything Bristol also gives a certain type of joy. There's an all bright 39 in there I think is one of the prettiest boats ever. That and a Murray Peterson schooner that plies the same waters. So it's not just about hinckley as you pointed out. Felt the same way about an airhead Beemer I rode for awhile.


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## nhsail (Aug 7, 2000)

A pilot sails better than a B-40, as in it points higher and will do better VMG vs waterline & Rating if you are beating. Sailing here







you will want the Pilot.

Note that the black lines are the course, and the red/green lines are the actual track. Red was at 100% of Polar, Green less than and the one blue section was really down speed main only before race started. Wind generally from the West, and oscillating 20 degrees at 5 min intervals. Current was flooding (from West at 1 kt center of channel) as shown by the mark rounding up at "OYC_1" mark at Jack London Square. Graphics from Expedition program.

When you can crack off to > 60 TWA with > 15 kts, its another story where the B-40 will pick up 8 feet of waterline (29--> 37) and take off at 8+ kts.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

The newer SW s aren't shabby sailors either. Don't know the PHRFs but think hanks boat is the best sailor of the lot as a sea boat in that generation. Don't understand why so few were made. Sailed a 59' ketch "My Fair Lady" in a Marion. Inspite of being bigger never warmed up to her. Favorite Hinckleys for me are the pilot, B40 and SW42 given hanks 39 is not considered a "true" Hinckley. Think closest thing to them now are the Ted Fountaine boats for super elegant perfectly executed vessels.


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## Chas H (Sep 6, 2013)

And my best sleep on a sailboat was in a pilot berth. Although not a Hinckley, a Chris Craft Apache 37. If I had the money to support her I'd own a Pilot 35.
- CH


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

If I could afford one, I'd have bought a Pilot. Two for sale in SW Harbor now, both look awesome. The cheaper of the two is only about 35k out of the range I was willing to stretch to.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

I'd say very sane. Good thread too. Below a link for some very affordable sanity.

1964 Hinckley Pilot 35 Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## dvuyxx (Jun 23, 2009)

Now please take this with a grain of salt ... but once I had my old Pearson 35 docked next to a Hinckley Pilot 35 at a marina. The guy gave me a tour of his boat and we chatted a while. I was surprised how similar the overall design was between the two - nearly identical inside cabin, large elongated cockpit, similar deck layout and stern. Now you had to squint your eyes a bit to see the similarities, but I thought at the time that this boat was the model to motivate me through my boats long restoration. They are kind of like twin cousins where one kid is brought up with seersucker suits and crudites and the other is blue collar and baked casseroles. They are both pretty boats, but one is a little more pretty than the other. I still have a lot of work to do.


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

another grain of salt ….. anyone who buys any sailboat has to be a little bit crazy!!

P.S. take this post with a bit of humor!! /././././././.:2 boat:


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

I'm glad people love taking care of historical pretty boats like this Hinckley: Other people. But my opinion, and I know you have all been waiting for my opinion, is such boats are but plastic reproductions of even older wooden boats. Not even particularly advanced wooden boats. Which is fine for some. Slow underway. Rolly and prone to pitching at anchor. Dreadful in all ways but appearance. And the price. And the maintenance of all that woodwork. Kudos to anyone who takes on those penalties. For me, I take any number of designs that take advantage of the fact that a plastic boat does not need to be heavy and shaped to suit construction with planks.

So, yeah, you are crazy. Somewhat crazier than some of us. A crazy Museum of Sail curator.


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

Tripp, Stephens, Alden, Nielsen; the pantheon of great yacht designers producing the finest vessels of their time which you now call, "Not even particularly advanced wooden boats." That is an opinion not supported by the evidence. The fiberglass boats were modeled on their wooden predecessors because their exclusive clientele demanded vessels that were of the highest quality that performed well, which they are to this day. The Pilot 35's speed is comparable to today's lighter 30 foot production boats. Your description of anchored characteristics is not borne out by my hundreds of nights aboard where the narrow beam and extra weight produce a cutting of waves that are normally coming down the bow. Very comfortable and quiet nights. But I agree it is dreadful having a boat that is rock-solid after 50 years, no blistering, no balsa coring to fail, and attractive. Just dreadful.

Production boats offer a list of advantages, racers a different set, and classics yet another set. I'm sure everyone appreciates informed contributions whether they be positive or critical.


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

For those considering a CCA era boat here are some reviews on commercial sites. While nothing in the sailing world is unbiased at least these articles are by people without skin in the game. Start with a couple of minimal content Pilot 35 articles:
Getting out on a Hinckley Pilot ? The Hand & Eye
A Down East Idyll, with Hurricanes! - Sail Magazine

Here are few of the Pilot's larger sister, the Bermuda 40. The history and vessel construction discussions are applicable to both boats:
LUXURY YACHTS BY HENRY R. HINCKLEY & CO. - CSMonitor.com
BoatUS - Boat Reviews - Bermuda 40
HINCKLEY BERMUDA 40: Everybody's Dream Boat


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## seabeau (Oct 5, 2014)

GeorgeDog: I'd think you'd be crazy for not considering a Hinckley Pilot Sloop!


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

The title of this thread reminds me of the purchase of my Holby Clearwater 35 in Clearwater Beach, FL. 

Having put my "new" boat in commission for the 1700 mile delivery trip to Mystic, I noticed a Hinckley 35 that had just been trucked from Essex, CT--about 23 miles from Mystic--to its new owner in the Clearwater area. When I jokingly remarked to the yard manager that maybe we should have swapped and avoided the long delivery trip in 2 directions, his response was equivalent to, "You'd be crazy to swap the Clearwater for the Hinckley, based on sailing qualities alone."

I can understand the Hinckley cult mentality. The Pilot is a pretty, well-built boat for its era, but the elitism of some Hinckley owners can get a bit tiresome, like that of the New York Yacht Club. If you wonder how elitism is received by mere mortals, ask the locals (including harbormasters) where the NYYC has stopped on their annual summer cruise.

P.S. Several years ago, I needed a tow into a port that had been invaded by the NYYC. The towboat operator informed me that there were no moorings or slips available for sailboats. When I told him I could adjust my draft to 2', he arranged for a slip that had 3' at MLW. Had that not been available, I could have anchored inside in a shallow area. A Hinckley Pilot would have had to anchor outside.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

There's a Hink in my harbor. Only boat that has everyone in matching outfits. Some of the tack that goes along with some Hink owners is the same thing that gets them to dress in Salmon colored shorts with Scotty dogs on them. A certain amount of disposable income insulates a crowd from good taste and makes them annoying to the rest of us, but it doesn't negate the fact that the Hinkleys are some darn good boats. FWIW, I still don't understand the idea of equating speed of a sailboat as the apogee of the worth of a boat. If you want to go fast, they make motors and airplanes. It is cool that the Clearwater can essentially beach like a swing keel C22, however- Although that is what most of us carry tenders for, and my 3'9" gets me most places I want to go.


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## Tanski (May 28, 2015)

seaner97 said:


> There's a Hink in my harbor. Only boat that has everyone in matching outfits. Some of the tack that goes along with some Hink owners is the same thing that gets them to dress in Salmon colored shorts with Scotty dogs on them. A certain amount of disposable income insulates a crowd from good taste and makes them annoying to the rest of us, but it doesn't negate the fact that the Hinkleys are some darn good boats.


This makes me think I should buy one! Just to bug "those" people. 
Dickies coveralls and workboots would make fine Hinckley deck wear. Couple big crazy howling dogs onboard, maybe some burlesque performers I know.....
Kind of like the time we had the Presidential Suite at the Fairmont Banff Springs.....

Trip Advisor
"If one is wanting the room experience of a lifetime, stay in the president's suite. It encompassed the top 3 floors of the fairmont. You have balconies surrounding the entire building, massive fireplace, winding staircase to the 3rd floor library,grand piano, drop dead views from every window. We have stayed in many presidential and governor's suites. This is the best."


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

How can Scotty Dogs be anything but cool?

Scotty


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

Anyone who knows me would be hard pressed to find hints of elitism or an upper-class mentality. My background is enlisted navy, inexpensive vehicles that I run into the ground, and small apartments not having owned a home until I was 49. Hardly the upper-crust. As stated in the original post, owning a Hinckley brings you into that sailing community so I'm now more familiar than most in this regard. I have yet to meet a Hinckley owner that is anything but genuine, friendly, and sailing for the fun of it. You know, like most other people you meet.


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

GeorgeDog said:


> Anyone who knows me would be hard pressed to find hints of elitism or an upper-class mentality.


Ha! Your portrait has "Hinckley Owner" written all over it.  Compare with my own modest portrait attached below.


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

I'm totally comfortable with what that photo says about me...I'm happy as hell to be out on my boat with my wife (who snapped the photo), being on an awesome Hinckley that sails great and looks great.

An added benefit of signing with a recognizable photo is that encourages me to ensure my comments reflect the way I choose to present myself in person.


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

Nice photo, George. Glad your wife is out there on the boat with you! 

I've always thought that pride, in moderation, is a valuable emotion. It keeps one mindful of how grateful we should all be. It also motivates us to keep our boats in good shape! You happen to own a very lovely boat. It's obviously the one you love. That is very cool. As a counter-point: I also own a lovely boat - and it's the one I love. One of the things I love is that there is NO wood on the outside of my boat (a Catalina 400MKII). I bet that you would rather own the one you have, just as (to be honest) I would rather own the one that I have. And isn't that just the right way?

So, in answer to the Thread Question: Are you crazy to consider a Hinkley? Hell yes! But it is crazy in a wonderful, exuberant, totally Ba...-To-The-Walls kind of way. Glad it's working out for you.


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

Thanks for the moderating voice, Scotty. I've enjoyed every boat I've ever sailed on including C&C, Pearson, J, Catalina, Hinckley, Mariner, Island Packet, some I forget, and a personal favorite…small Hobie cats. CCA boats work for me and I'd be just as happy if we'd ended up with a Tartan, Alberg, Bermuda 40, Block Island 40, etc. If I had something as roomy as your boat I'd feel like a king. It really is all good out there on the water.

Grateful is something I have in abundance. To be sailing at all is a gift that few people on this earth can even dream about. To live on the Chesapeake is a reward that I haven't really earned. And that boat, wow, the previous owner poured his genius for good taste and lots of resources into getting her right. When he decided he wasn't using her enough he was more concerned with getting her into a family that would use her than trying to get his investment back. A truly gracious gentleman.

edit: It is funny that the boat I was looking to buy was a CAL 44 the day I found the Pilot. Talk about opposite ends of the spectrum size wise. However I like doing all of my own work so the smaller boat was a blessing in disguise.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

GeorgeDog said:


> Thanks for the moderating voice, Scotty. I've enjoyed every boat I've ever sailed on including C&C, Pearson, J, Catalina, Hinckley, Mariner, Island Packet, some I forget, and a personal favorite&#8230;small Hobie cats. CCA boats work for me and I'd be just as happy if we'd ended up with a Tartan, Alberg, Bermuda 40, Block Island 40, etc. If I had something as roomy as your boat I'd feel like a king. It really is all good out there on the water.
> 
> Grateful is something I have in abundance. To be sailing at all is a gift that few people on this earth can even dream about. To live on the Chesapeake is a reward that I haven't really earned. And that boat, wow, the previous owner poured his genius for good taste and lots of resources into getting her right. When he decided he wasn't using her enough he was more concerned with getting her into a family that would use her than trying to get his investment back. A truly gracious gentleman.
> 
> edit: It is funny that the boat I was looking to buy was a CAL 44 the day I found the Pilot. Talk about opposite ends of the spectrum size wise. However I like doing all of my own work so the smaller boat was a blessing in disguise.


Having been on your boat when you first got her and spending time with you then, I am glad she worked out for you
I have seen firsthand the beauty of the Hinkley design as well as how your kids and wife took to it. You have every right to love and enjoy your boat

I also remember you as very humble when we talked and although that may not come through in this present post , I know you to be cut that way.

Personally I never wanted a Hinkley. Too much time and money spent on maintsinence to get the 7 coats of varnish on them I prefer to sail more and enjoy that part of the sport, although I also understand that detstand how you could love the maintsinence part as some friends are built that way also.

I prefer the Mason's or Halberg Rassey as boats with. Hylas and Bristols close behind. I prefer a more robust performance cruiser

I spend much more time and sailing and cruising which is the part of the obsession I love the most,. Different strokes for different folks.

Again I am glad you followed up with your post and still are in love with the boat you go when we met. She is a besuty


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## Tanski (May 28, 2015)

I have to ask, aside from varnish (which I don't mind doing) what is the major cost of owning a Hinckley? I've noticed a few posts in this thread about people not wanting the on-going costs.
Why does it cost more than any other 35' boat to maintain? 
I look at the Pilots that are for sale now and I think to myself these are very well maintained boats, why spend half the amount to buy a "fixer upper".
To be honest they are right in about the range I was expecting to spend for my next boat. Then you get a very large chunk of that back in resale....
I spend almost that much when I buy a pickup truck which has no resale value when I'm done with it in 3 or 4 years.


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

Tanski:

The cost to own a Hinckley is exactly the same as any other boat. Yard fees are the same. Diesel mechanic fees are the same. Equipment upgrades are the same. Dockage costs the same.

Hinckley owners often _choose _to spend more than the average to maintain their boats in immaculate condition. That requires annual varnishing, getting a painter on-board as soon as you see a chip in the painted aluminum (to prevent degradation more than for appearances), hiring the diesel mechanic to go over the engine every winter, etc. When it needs a paint job at 20 to 30 years in you pay the $25k instead of scrapping the boat. Knowing prevention is cheaper than cure (and scrapping is not an option) you may _choose _to winter indoors which is extra bucks. Hinckley's are built strong enough to last (apparently) indefinitely with regular upkeep so it makes sense to do so while enjoying a well-maintained vessel, then get your original investment back when you sell. You could do this with any well-built boat (some others are not designed or constructed for indefinite lives) but the Hinckley community has developed a reputation that encourages you to follow through.

I haven't done the math but my instinct tells me that it is better to buy the well-maintained vessel and keep her that way instead of getting a bargain with the expectation of bringing her back yourself unless you are exceptionally capable. I do all of my own maintenance (paying once to see a mechanic service the engine the first time) so my costs are not high at all. Keeping the boat in warm indoor winter storage allows me the time to do the maintenance in a pleasant environment.

I'll follow this message with my off-season maintenance list to give you a flavor of keeping things up. Except for the 4 items under "winter maintenance", everything else can be completed in one day.


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

Note: Boat is stored in climate controlled warehouse so this list does not include freeze protection.

End of Season
1.	Flush holding tank

Prior to the run to winter storage
1.	Add diesel stabilizer
2.	Replace fuel filter. 
3.	Replace Racor filter.
4.	Purge air from fuel system.
5.	Top off engine coolant. Replace every other year (Yanmar says every 1000 hours).
6.	Change impeller every other year (Yanmar says every 1000 hours).

Prior to Haul-Out
1.	Top off diesel tank.
2.	Flush engine fresh water cooling lines with marine antifreeze
3.	Replace oil and filter (while engine is still warm).
4.	Drain fresh water system through galley faucet.

Following Haul-Out
1.	Replace transmission fluid.
2.	Replace Max-Prop anode.
3.	Grease Max-Prop.
4.	Clean Max-Prop and spray with two coats of Pettit #1792
5.	Teflon spray control cables.
6.	Perform hull water content survey within 1 week of haulout
7.	Top off rechargeable batteries (these are not the boat batteries)
8.	Grease winches
9.	Grease steering quad
10.	Replace fresh water filter cartridge (port cockpit locker)
11.	Clean fresh water filter (next to water heater)
12.	Clean refrigeration fresh water filter (under batteries)
13.	Inspect cutlass bearing
14.	Inspect shaft packing
15.	Inspect rudder post packing

Winter Maintenance
1.	Refresh varnish
2.	Survey and repair painted aluminum
3.	Clean sails
4.	Refresh bottom paint

Prelaunch
1.	Replace CO and smoke detector detector batteries
2.	Shock fresh water system


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

We've owned 5 boats, 2 of which were "high maintenance." IMHO high maintenance comes in 2 categories, systems and cosmetics. The Pilot, given it's size and vintage, will probably be equipped with a minimum of systems, so that part maybe less than say a 50' new bene with a generator, air conditioners, water maker, power winches, in mast furling etc. Cosmetics is another matter. Hard to own a boat that pretty without awl gripped topsides, nicely arranged nonskid patterns on the deck with gutters for water flow that may need repainting, and a pile of varnished teak on the exterior. Once you've got that stuff going, you start trading off interior heated storage vs outside on jack stands because the paint/varnish last longer. If the varnish is too much, you end up paying someone. When the awl grip fails, you end up redoing the paint job. If you paint the mast, the re-paint may involve removing all the hardware first....

Don't ask me how i know this.

Is it worth it? How much do you enjoy looking back at your boat on the mooring? This is different from the question of how much it matters for you to impress others. Which leads to the elitism discussion.

On the topic of elitism, I've seen all varieties of elitism on this site and in the sailing community at large. It can include, the "real sailor offshore guy" vs your a "measly coastal cruiser"...."cruiser" vs day boat....the "racer" vs "cruiser... "yacht club Thurston Howell" vs trailer sailor...and yes "semi-custom fancy boat" vs "production boat." All pretty pathetic in my mind. The 2 most miserable people on earth are people live their lives being envious of other people's stuff at one end of the spectrum, and people who buy things primarily to impress others at the other end. Doesn't sound like fun to me.

Impress yourself, buy the boat you want to make yourself happy. All sailing on any type of boat is all good, and it doesn't cure the sick or bring on world peace. If it isn't fun for you and the people you care about, why do it?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

capecodda said:


> We've owned 5 boats, 2 of which were "high maintenance." IMHO high maintenance comes in 2 categories, systems and cosmetics. The Pilot, given it's size and vintage, will probably be equipped with a minimum of systems, so that part maybe less than say a 50' new bene with a generator, air conditioners, water maker, power winches, in mast furling etc. Cosmetics is another matter. Hard to own a boat that pretty without awl gripped topsides, nicely arranged nonskid patterns on the deck with gutters for water flow that may need repainting, and a pile of varnished teak on the exterior. Once you've got that stuff going, you start trading off interior heated storage vs outside on jack stands because the paint/varnish last longer. If the varnish is too much, you end up paying someone. When the awl grip fails, you end up redoing the paint job. If you paint the mast, the re-paint may involve removing all the hardware first....
> 
> Don't ask me how i know this.
> 
> ...


Well said


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## Tanski (May 28, 2015)

Thank you for that, more or less what I assumed.
I've read numerous threads where people have bought a boat for far less then spent enough to "bring it back" to equal the cost of a much better maintained or newer boat.
Personally I'd rather spend 80-100+ and have a few things to do than 40 or 50 and have a 2 year refit that costs me another 40 or 50.
Maybe the next one WILL be a Hinckley. I don't really think they are that expensive all things considered. Especially if you factor in resale value.
Next boat won't see "winter" I'll be on the west coast living aboard, one last contract to finish 2-3 years.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

GeorgeDog said:


> Driving it makes you feel good and it elicits lavish attention.
> 
> ***
> 
> ...


I can't tell if these are supposed to be pros or cons. For me, the above is almost the exact opposite of the reasons why I own a boat. Our boat is a place to escape from our busy lives -- where we relax, unwind, and cannot be bothered. Attention is about the last thing we want when on our boat. The Hinckley is a pretty boat, but "pretty" and "boat" don't go together real well for me. Of course, to each their own -- do what makes you happy.


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

Calberg,

They aren't supposed to be pros or cons, just observations. We bought the boat to go sailing which is all we do 95% of the time. The 5% that we weren't prepared for was the attention. Nice boats are given special dockage. Photographers ask to do photo shoots. Requests are made to dress up the waterfront during events. People will stop by constantly to talk if you are docked in a public place. These are neither good or bad things, they are just something to be aware of if you are considering a boat that stands out.

Personally I've never complained about improved dockage, the events we've done have been fun, and we've found some lasting friendships by people stopping to talk. In one case I heard a woman whisper, "Stop staring, it's rude." I turned and responded, "She's right. Instead come aboard for a beer." They turned out to be two of the nicest people I've ever met and we will remain friends the rest of our lives.

However most of the time we sail, anchor in seclusion, swim if the jellies allow, and listen to music. That is the meat-and-potatoes of boat ownership, meeting unexpected people and docking at events is just some extra dessert. Both are fun.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

GeorgeDog said:


> We bought the boat to go sailing which is all we do 95% of the time. The 5% that we weren't prepared for was the attention.


Well that's great. The original post did not reflect this ratio, focusing instead on the "yachting lifestyle" and "lavish attention" with sailing only being mentioned "finally" at the very end. Actually, in the closing list of reasons to buy a Hinckley, none have anything to do with sailing, although I note that "yachting lifestyle" made its way onto the list of reasons to buy. *shrug* -- like I said, you do what makes you happy.

Oh, and you really don't need a Hinckley to meet other people to share a beer on the boat. For me, it's all about the person, not about their boat (or any other possessions).


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

Tanski said:


> Thank you for that, more or less what I assumed.
> I've read numerous threads where people have bought a boat for far less then spent enough to "bring it back" to equal the cost of a much better maintained or newer boat.
> Personally I'd rather spend 80-100+ and have a few things to do than 40 or 50 and have a 2 year refit that costs me another 40 or 50.
> Maybe the next one WILL be a Hinckley. I don't really think they are that expensive all things considered. Especially if you factor in resale value.
> Next boat won't see "winter" I'll be on the west coast living aboard, one last contract to finish 2-3 years.


I agree with the sentiment that the highest value in used boats is in the best maintained examples for sale. You buy -for pennies on the dollar- what the PO paid list price for.

One reason Hinckley's stand out (and annoy some people) is that many newer fiberglass boats look pretty dog eared and worn out these days.

Chalky gelcoat, flaking metal spars, a spider web of gelcoat cracks on deck, many newer fiberglass boats are on that precipice to go to paint(despite heavy buffer-denial).

On the other hand, the Hinckley's (we're talking about), long ago gave up their original gelcoat(if they had it at all). Most are on their second or third awlgrip(or similar) paint job. And that includes the cabins and decks(gelcoat on those areas gives up as well).

So with a gleaming Flag Blue Awlgrip hull-that has a shine gel coat never achieved - a snowy white cabin, soft luster decks and a maintenance coat of gleaming varnish, these now 50 to 60 year old boats, look brand new! And that new look lasts many years.

On a similar parallel, I watch older wooden boats come out every spring looking as new as the day they were first launched. Newer in fact!

Many of these boats are given a new coat of topsides paint - brushed on by hand - a maintenance coat or two of varnish, at a pretty reasonable cost. The labor costs for well maintained boats can be lower than many think.


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## nhsail (Aug 7, 2000)

> Chalky gelcoat, flaking metal spars, a spider web of gelcoat cracks on deck, many newer fiberglass boats are on that precipice to go to paint(despite heavy buffer-denial).
> 
> On the other hand, the Hinckley's (we're talking about), long ago gave up their original gelcoat(if they had it at all). Most are on their second or third awlgrip(or similar) paint job. And that includes the cabins and decks(gelcoat on those areas gives up as well).
> 
> So with a gleaming Flag Blue Awlgrip hull-that has a shine gel coat never achieved - a snowy white cabin, soft luster decks and a maintenance coat of gleaming varnish, these now 50 to 60 year old boats, look brand new! And that new look lasts many years.


"Lioness" had been professionally Awlgripped, including her mast (now flaking), and I've redone the topsides personally with tip & roll, but the deck is another matter, crazed and nasty. Some day we'll get out the grinder, pull the fittings and take down the gelcoat, reglass a smoothing layer or two and paint it again. The cabin is half "Herreshoff" (galley and head) due to former owner's son deciding to stain parts of the luan paneling to match the mahogany trim. Our "Brightwork" has not seen varnish in almost a decade and overall she's pretty scruffy as life had higher priorities than buffing the yacht...

The underlying graceful sheer, robust construction, and genteel sailing qualities are undiminished. Not many other boats that I have heard described as "pretty" both on the hard and in the water. If I wanted a practical boat, I would probably not have one.


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## GeorgeDog (Mar 11, 2010)

caberg said:


> Well that's great. The original post did not reflect this ratio, focusing instead on the "yachting lifestyle" and "lavish attention" with sailing only being mentioned "finally" at the very end. Actually, in the closing list of reasons to buy a Hinckley, none have anything to do with sailing, although I note that "yachting lifestyle" made its way onto the list of reasons to buy. *shrug* -- like I said, you do what makes you happy.
> 
> Oh, and you really don't need a Hinckley to meet other people to share a beer on the boat. For me, it's all about the person, not about their boat (or any other possessions).


"Sails great" was in the conclusions. The pros/cons were provided to give a new buyer observations I've had that, in my opinion, *contrast *Hinckleys and production boats. Since they both sail great it isn't a contrast. I also did not mention that Hinckley's look great in the reasons to buy because that also was in the conclusions.

Why so critical? I bareboat production boats and love my time on them. It really isn't hard to appreciate how others enjoy the hobby.


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

There are some hidden costs involved in any older boat, especially one that has extensive wood, either topsides or in the hull. However, first I would like to address an assumption I've noticed in several posts: Production boats are not "throw away after 30 years". I've seen many boats, both production and one-off, that are throw-away after time has passed. It usually is the result of poor maintenance or accidents. I have seen many production boats, as well as one-offs, that are going strong after 30+ years. Fiberglass is, in fact, a material that we haven't yet really seen how much longevity we can expect when the boat is properly cared for. There's a guy in my harbor that has a Columbia 50 - has to be 40 years old - that's to die for!

Hidden costs of a Hinkley - or any other boat of it's style and age - are what you'd expect. Replacement of wood that gets rot - and the extra vigilance that keeps that from happening. Hard to find gear that needs replacement. Keeping things up-graded and in good condition. I personally agree that it is easier, and cheaper, to keep a boat that is in good condition in, well, good condition. It takes a lot of effort, and money, to take a boat in poor condition and bring it up to Bristol Fashion.


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## Tanski (May 28, 2015)

LOL my boat is over 40 years old, wasn't even what I was really looking for. The maintenance is what sold me, a one family boat with every piece of paper including the original bill of sale. I know everything done to that boat when and by who since new. All I have to do is keep up on the maintenance.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

Scotty C-M said:


> There are some hidden costs involved in any older boat, especially one that has extensive wood, either topsides or in the hull. However, first I would like to address an assumption I've noticed in several posts: Production boats are not "throw away after 30 years". I've seen many boats, both production and one-off, that are throw-away after time has passed. It usually is the result of poor maintenance or accidents. I have seen many production boats, as well as one-offs, that are going strong after 30+ years. Fiberglass is, in fact, a material that we haven't yet really seen how much longevity we can expect when the boat is properly cared for. There's a guy in my harbor that has a Columbia 50 - has to be 40 years old - that's to die for!
> 
> Hidden costs of a Hinkley - or any other boat of it's style and age - are what you'd expect. Replacement of wood that gets rot - and the extra vigilance that keeps that from happening. Hard to find gear that needs replacement. Keeping things up-graded and in good condition. I personally agree that it is easier, and cheaper, to keep a boat that is in good condition in, well, good condition. It takes a lot of effort, and money, to take a boat in poor condition and bring it up to Bristol Fashion.


The thing that will turn many old glass boats into throw-away's, is lack of popularity. That's happening to some older(and some not too old) glass boats. Most are smaller but the length is growing as more and more hit the used boat market in disrepair.

My boat with a glass hull and deck is 55 years old this season. There is no noticeable age in the fiberglass structurally. Nearly all of the wood is original as well and in very good condition, thanks to simple maintenance over the 55 years. It's on it's 3rd engine and who knows how many sets of sails(the original wood spars look like new).

You're absolutely right, wood is expensive to replace. In most situations, it's cheaper to maintain it than replace it when it's beyond restoration.


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## seabeau (Oct 5, 2014)

Delete.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

TomMaine said:


> Scotty C-M said:
> 
> 
> > There are some hidden costs involved in any older boat, especially one that has extensive wood, either topsides or in the hull. However, first I would like to address an assumption I've noticed in several posts: Production boats are not "throw away after 30 years". I've seen many boats, both production and one-off, that are throw-away after time has passed. It usually is the result of poor maintenance or accidents. I have seen many production boats, as well as one-offs, that are going strong after 30+ years. Fiberglass is, in fact, a material that we haven't yet really seen how much longevity we can expect when the boat is properly cared for. There's a guy in my harbor that has a Columbia 50 - has to be 40 years old - that's to die for!
> ...


Agree. One of the reasons to buy and maintain an old Hinkley vs a newer 'insert name here' would be that people will still want an old Hinkley 20 years from now. Same can't be said for many boats. I fully expect that my P35 is nearly to the point where she's of value to me and nearly no one else, despite the fact she's solid and I've maintained and upgraded her well. I expect that she will be free to my son (or daughters) or the scrap yard when I'm done with her in 20-30 years. If I'd bought a Pilot or Bermuda, I bet they're both still saleable at that point.


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