# J92-type vs Alerion 28-type vs Alternate



## Roscoetuff (Sep 21, 2009)

Done the cruising thing. Looking for fun daysailing and possible infrequent over-nighting. Gotta be comfortable enough for the wife (we're 50) who's been sailing for years, but while following instructions well, doesn't want to be too active as part of the crew... if you know what I mean.

Plan is for boat with an inboard, a head, and not much more than that below - place to get out of the rain if need be. Simple. Like to have enough sail area to get moving in typical light winds of the Chesapeake summers. Looking for modest maintenance costs, too.

Spent the weekend learning down at J-world to gain experience on asymmetrics and other high tech rig goodies. Not looking to go crazy... but it sure is nice to move along well even when the winds are in the 3 to 4 knot range. Boats were J80's which are a little on the too-lean side of things, though not much. Large cockpits are nice.

Oh... and breaking the bank isn't really in the cards. So a new boat is not on the table (e33 won't be happening). 

Wonder whether the Alerion 28 with a Gennaker moves well enough or not. I can see the advantage a nice big, light sail adds to moving the boat... but not sure the wife's going to feel included on a J boat just yet. Love to hear some feedback/suggestions/recommendations. Hope I've provided good enough data... but that's always a wild card.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

The Alerion is a fine BUT small 28 foot boat with 8'2" beam

The J92 being 2' feet longer and having allmost 2' more beam at 10' is a much bigger boat


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

*Second vote for the J 92*

I have not sailed on an Alerion but much admired the lines. When I used to have a boat in a slip I had to walk past one each day and got to each day as the boat never left the slip. I did have to help the owner one day as it was taking on water and everyone on the dock was too fat (this was New Orleans BTW) to fit into the space to do anything about it. I managed to fit into the space and make the repairs. Not that I had time to look around but my overall impression was sparse down below.

At about the same time I did some racing on a J92, which was owned by a very cool owner, and provided some great times. My impression, the boat was fast, fun to sail, easy to sail and had close to standing room below and nice accomodations for a nice cruise for two or weekend with four close friends. It would be on my short list of boats if I were in that tax bracket.


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## jason3317 (Dec 20, 2007)

It's a probably a fair conclusion that the J will be the better sailing of the two, particularly in Chesapeake wind. A 3-4' LWL advantage is significant. That said, the Alerion is a stunning looker and would be suitable for the use you outlined. You may not like the location of the head in the Alerion, though.

One point of difference, and this is important to me at least, the J/92 has an open transom and the crew sits on the edge of the cockpit comings - it doesn't have cockpit "seats". I prefer a closed transom, especially if I would be daysailing.

I would suggest, if you like the J/92, that you also at least look at the J/100, which in my mind is probably more "daysailer" than the "racer" of a J/92. The /100 has an enclosed cockpit and real seats - ones that you can put cushions on! Some even have the Hoyt jib boom installed as an option, similar to some Alerions.


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## Roscoetuff (Sep 21, 2009)

*Thanks!*

Folks - this is helpful input. I've also contacted the local Chesapeake Alerion 28 fleet and a few have acquired Gennakers, but seldom use them.

Part of me wants the go fast some times, just sail others (light wind), and the comfort part is more for my wife. Cockpit seats are a nice thing... with real backs. Aging - we're both just past the 5-0 mark... but still young enough and work out a lot. But time does its own thing.

Someone commented on the open stern. That's a good point. Dog might fly out there... like he jumped out the car window when we slowed down near the yard office the other day! Yet a sprit boat sets up pretty nicely and isn't all that hard to trim and keep trimmed down wind. LOTS of fun! But I have little intention to race the boat... other than "... whenever two or more of you are gathered on the water..." bit. I mean if you've ever raced... it's ALWAYS in the blood.

So there will much pondering and visiting at the upcoming boat show. Question whether I'm leaving out some good candidates altogether??? Appreciate any further thoughts.


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## jason3317 (Dec 20, 2007)

What is your budget $$. I assumed approx 100k? Max LOA you would consider? We already know that you'll accept a basic interior.

The brand new J/95 will be shown at the show....wheel steering (both the Alerion and /92 and /100 are tiller), keel/bronze centerboard, carbon sprit, spartan accomodations...supposed to sail to weather really nice and has a masthead A-sail. Base price $150k.

I still think the J/100 is your boat based on what you've told us.


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## Roscoetuff (Sep 21, 2009)

Jason:
Thanks for followup. Trying to hold in the budget 70's. This means some new money... but not much. LOA - want to hold at 30 max. Prefer 28 (short's good, just not short and slow). Even log canoes ran 26 to 28 for some pretty good wave characteristic reasons in the Chesapeake chop - or so the legend has it.


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## AE28 (Jun 20, 2008)

"We" love our AE28!!!

She's a great boat to sail single-handed. We have a 135%, but generally use the small jib on the Hoyt Jib Boom, which will point much higher than the 135%.

Have never overnighted and never will.

Paul


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## Roscoetuff (Sep 21, 2009)

Okay... so true confessions: Have contracted to purchase an e33. Liked it, loved it, it's where we're going.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Thank you for taking the time to follow up.

And, Congratulations!

David


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Roscoetuff said:


> Okay... so true confessions: Have contracted to purchase an e33. Liked it, loved it, it's where we're going.


Congrats! but......:worthless:

No pics, didn't happen!


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Then first post says, e33 is out of the picture...........then goes and buys one!..............hmmmmmmmm..........

I agree with faster too.......

:worthless:

and congrats
:thewave:


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## j34035 (Nov 10, 2006)

Roscoetuff said:


> Okay... so true confessions: Have contracted to purchase an e33. Liked it, loved it, it's where we're going.


Wait a minute...........did you not say in the first post that the e33 was not in the cards? What Happened!! Looks like a cool boat, congrats!!
DD


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Was on the e33 at the Newport Boat Show a month or so ago. What a great looking boat. Very practical design for what you say you are looking for. Simply the biggest, most comfortable cockpit I have ever been in. And that afterdeck; wow. You can fit eight adults in the cockpit, no problem. I don't know if I would do more than overnight on her in a marina, but let us know how she sails!


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## nickmerc (Nov 2, 2008)

Excellent choice and congrats! I looked at both at the Annapolis boat show. The A28 was pretty, but the e33 is a sailors boat. I spoke at length with the manufacturer and was very impressed with thier quality and desire to produce a well sailing boat. I saw one out in 12 knots and it was screaming! If you want an overnight slip on Back Creek, let me know. I would love to see it in my marina sometime.
________
Web Shows


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## kmartin16 (Apr 30, 2009)

Green with envy on that e33. Nice choice. Good to see the boatbuilders have customers too as there is no lack of used boats around.


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## bb74 (Feb 11, 2009)

that's a pretty boat for sure. Must be tight under the topside though!

It's unfortunate there aren't more slid designs available in the states - if you like stability, sea comfort and all out speed you have to sail a Pogo or one of the like designs some day. It's hard to go back to the "narrow" production hulls after spending a day in the wind in a 30 footer with all the same sensations of a 5 year old barreling down the snow covered hill on a sled...


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## Roscoetuff (Sep 21, 2009)

Woops. Been away. Trying to sell the old boat. Very kind remarks. Thank you.

How did I change my mind? Very impressed with the thought in the design. These guys weren't just putting together a pretty boat and a decent rig. Very well thought out. Liked their choices. Made sense. Price was a problem I had to rationalize my way around.

Then I remembered I could borrow money. So like the guy who says he'll never get married until he's 30... something happened. Decided having the right boat was more important than some of the compromises I was rationalizing. Alerion is a nice boat. Nothing against them. J-boats definitely can put up the numbers. Nothing against them. e33 seemed to combine the best of both with emphasis on keeping it simple... like someone here wrote... a real sailors boat designed for and by sailors. Test sail at the Annapolis Boat Show was a kick. Very light helm, nice movement, J-world folks were whistling approval and showing the thumbs up as we passed them without close to the amount of sail up, and raising and lowering sails was a cinch. Even under power, runs very nicely. Reminded me of a boat we used to see on the Bay that was bought by some Saudi, "Hurrying Angel"... and old wooden design that really, really moved.

Add to this the fact that the wife factor was pretty adamant against J-boats. Tells me she thinks of them as a "guy's locker room that sails". Ouch! I tried to say, "Naaaah... it wouldn't be like that." And it's not that she was saying no, but just that she figured she'd get left out. Okay... we know where that goes: Boat sticks around for a short couple of years and then hits the road. Not what I wanted either. And the budget for a boat that only one person gets to enjoy... is just a lot lower. Budget for a boat where she feels included... a lot higher. So all those photo shots on the website with the cushions, the cockpit awning, the kids and families over-nighting.... priceless in feeding the imagination. J-boats doesn't really pitch this market... maybe it doesn't have to? LOL!!!!

So... the wife said: Smaller boat became a foot longer? Less expensive boat became "new" and expensive? How did that happen? Well... you folks understand part of it, but there's another part: My original idea was a small daysailer like the Sakonnet 23 (which I've always loved - and was almost my first boat some 20 years ago) in front of a house on the water. Dumpy house was fine with me. Ooooh. That latter part wasn't generating much interest with the better half. How do you explain the house is a place to crash and it doesn't have to be the Taj Mahal... just comfortable with AC? My idea was that some dude would want to unload his former dream house and you could find it "el cheapo". Dudes apparently didn't get the memo; my wife didn't want another house and end up with TWO kitchens to maintain, or like my idea about spending three-day summer weekends on the Bay.. or even commuting back and forth during the summer months. Especially trashed was the bit about the quality of the house not mattering or the random places I thought would be fine and I could find "some dude" with a house to dump in my price range. Okay. So it was a one-person dream and it died. Lesson for anybody here is you don't mess with that special person's idea of what constitutes a home... even if it's supposed to be nothing more than a "minimal and occasional life support system for a boating couple while on shore". Ouch.

So at the show, sitting in the cockpit and then in the cabin of the e33 at the Annapolis Boat Show, the brain began a high speed adjustment process. Call it rationalization or realization that dream A was dead and it was time to move on to dream B where we somehow accomplish what I want and she gets what she wants. So we give up the cruiser and adopt an over-nighter. Bigger than a daysailer... but she sails sweet. Speed helps. No more days waiting for 10 knots or more. Just get on her and go. The funds I'd thought to plow into a 2nd home downpayment became "boat money". There will never be a 2nd home I guess... so net net... it's less dough even if it is depreciating dough. Sigh. And sale of the existing boat which was in the process... also became part of the plan.... even if it hasn't happened yet.

So the key beecame to keep the boat simple, but the accomodations comfortable. Wurmfield and Doyle have done that with the e33. Boat can be single handed nicely, but also easy to give everyone a job and it's meant to be competitive in the racing crowd, but comfortable for the others. And when there's another sailor or two on-board, they can help fly the Code Zero or the Asymmetric. Large main, an optional self-tending jib track, two-line trim of the main and jib, no winches, lazy jacks... I mean really... the boat points well, it trims up well, ought to match at least a number of J-boats without the work of holding her down. What's not to like? You can dial up the options you want and now with Lyman Morse as the builder, you can custom finish to your heart's delight.

Friend of mine has pushed me to get them to do a Sealand Vaccuflush head for the Missus. Swears it's the only reason he's allowed to still HAVE a boat.
Well... concessions we make... huh? Trying to keep the electronics budget down. Will do TackTick but thinking technology is moving so fast these days... chartplotters...?? Seem like you'll be out of date before they finish the bulkhead mount. Inclined to do a handheld radio, handheld GPS, and whatever. Have opted NOT to go for the boat stereo either. I tend to like it quiet on the water. Want music? Turn on the iPod. Am I missing something? Dunno. Let me know. We are going for the lifelines, too, even though it may seem unnecessary. Wife's used to them... heck... we all are. And if we get grandchildren in the next couple of years... might come in handy.

Room down below: It's sitting room. I've had the full standing room thing. Actually part of the design purpose here was to keep view of the bow from the helm while sitting unobstructed. Pushing down to get full headroom would mean more displacement, heavier, slower, etc. I was willing to get the living space topside where I'm going to spend it anyway, and keep the speed up and (required) crew down. Planning to have some of my racing buds come out and take the godstick for some Wednesday night racing. I'm not proud. Just fun to be on the water and get back in the game.

If you're interested website link for photos is here: e sailing yachts

End of January is supposed to be mold release. Finish in 60-days. Plan to make a trip up to Maine to visit in-process. Looking forward to it.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Consider..*

Consider the Morris 29 too. These are beautiful, extremely well built and sail like a dream. Its hard to find a better built boat than a Morris and by the time you outfit a new AE-28 your damn near the price of an M-29 out the door....

Oh and if you are building a boat the folks at Morris are perhaps the nicest group of folks you'll meet.

There's a new girl in town and the Alerion 28 is no longer the "prettiest girl at the dance"... 









EDITED: Nevermind I see you bought a boat... Still someone may be interested in the M-29 though..


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Maine Sail said:


> There's a new girl in town and the Alerion 28 is no longer the "prettiest girl at the dance"


I never thought I would say it, but I think you are right. The Alerion might not be the prettiest day sailer out there anymore. I saw the M 29 at Newport in September, and I nearly fell over. And, in the even higher stratosphere, I thought the M52 was stunning. The Friendship 40 and 52 are gorgeous, but the M series is their equal. Both have the classic lines, while the Friendship boats are out and out opulent, and the M series are more consciously old-fashioned below.


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## gybing 35 (Jan 31, 2013)

Hi Roscoetuff, I know this post is old but in doing a general internet search for the exact criteria you mentioned in this thread, I see you eventually decided on the e 33. 5 or 6 years on, how do feel about your decision? I'm considering the J 100 or e 33 myself. Anyone else with something to offer, please jump in.

Dan


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