# Click, watch, discuss. Repeat.



## billsull (Jul 8, 2007)

These folks had a great adventure and managed to make awesome video at the same time, IMHO!

Hold Fast on Vimeo


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Seen it already. Didn't bother posting the link over here in SN.


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

BubbleheadMd said:


> Seen it already. Didn't bother posting the link over here in SN.


And what gives you the right to restrict what the rest of us get informed about. You may have seen it, but I for one had not and I suspect others here may be somewhat interested to watch it. Oh too be young and that free, now days I like my luxuries...and a big sharp knife.


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## TintedChrome (Jul 8, 2008)

Just watched this with the girlfriend last night, actually..

I was expecting them to be a lot less competent than they were - great documentary.

As an added bonus, this made her want to come cruising with me even more


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

SimonV said:


> And what gives you the right to restrict what the rest of us get informed about. You may have seen it, but I for one had not and I suspect others here may be somewhat interested to watch it. Oh too be young and that free, now days I like my luxuries...and a big sharp knife.


In what way did I restrict your right to view the video?

I didn't thrust it in front of you, but I sure as hell didn't prevent you from finding and viewing it on your own, nor did I prevent (or attempt to prevent) the OP from posting the link to it.

Since when is it _my_ responsibility to keep SN up to date on all the goings-on in the sailing world? An omission is not restriction or censure.


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

My mistake, read it as "Don't bother posting it here on SN" not "Didn't" Hey its late. I too haunt other sights but SN is home so I would try to bring good stuff here for the crew.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Ah, ok. No worries brother. I was pretty confused by your angst. 

I didn't bother posting it because the discussion inevitably breaks down into two camps:

1. Those smelly hippies are slipshod seamen and a hazard to navigation.
2. Those kids are out there living the dream, good on them.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

Who says that youth is wasted on the young?


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## johnnyandjebus (Sep 15, 2009)

SlowButSteady said:


> Who says that youth is wasted on the young?


The old and cranky :laugher

To the OP thanks for posting this, got any more?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

A most excellent adventure, and proof that the gods protect madmen and fools. To do that today and not get arrested....I didn't think it was possible any more.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Um, I was kinda inspired and pissed at the same time while watching?


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## meteuz (May 13, 2010)

I had a lot of questions about whether they were being deliberately economical with the details in certain places so as to allow us to make inferences which suit the story better than perhaps the whole reality would have. For example, in the scene where they are dead reckoning through all kinds of peril, there is a GPS in the background. They didn't say they did not use GPS, but neither did they say they used it to verify each DR position. They started out with a complete wreck of a hull, but then furnished it with real stainless rails and stanchions, a decent mast and standing rigging and what looks like a relatively new set of sails. (The wooden whisker pole was a good touch though.) 
In getting ready for something like this, what makes you break the piggy bank is usually the accumulating cost of a million little things, not the purchase price of the hull. It seemed like they were not on such a shoe string budget for those. Purchasing a boat in better shape to begin with would have made much more economic sense, but it would not have made as good a story. Maybe their families insisted on a certain level of real gear, like the diesel and the solar cell, which they chose not to use or dwell on so as to stick to their original plot.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

Like I posted over at SA, I was disgusted by the whole thing. The theft of use, the fish kill scene (which was particularly bad), the girl taking a dump amidships over the lifelines (gross), etc. And now that I know that girls poop? I am not the same anymore.

Anyway, I don't like train hoppers (a whole other culture, look into it, it sucks), and I don't like lazy, bad sailors. Non seamanship irritates me. I am not perfect, but I take pride in how I handle and keep a boat. 

Like I said somewhere else, they got the boat name correct though. Spot on.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Mmeteuz, IIRC in the dead reckoning section he did in fact say that they chose not to use the GPS for plotting--but used the data from it AFTERWARDS to see how far off their DR had been. Nothing wrong with that, I've been on a boat where someone is using a sextant while someone else is using the GPS, and simply not comparing notes till afterward. 

But he does also openly refer to scrounging and pilfering and IIRC directly to stealing wood. The line between scrounging and stealing...the mention that they have no title or registration (not followed up)...that's all part of why I say the gods take care of etc. and it's marvelous that they were able to "Huck Finn" it in this day and age. I try to save my luck for bigger things and not tempt the fates--or the gendarmes--as flagrantly.

I suspect from the mentions of the timeframes that this was "our last two summers in college" for some college friends on two(?) low-budget summers. After all, you can't backpack Europe on five dollars a day anymore. (G)


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## Willis (Jan 16, 2008)

I watched this earlier today. I'm not sure what to think. I admire their drive and motivation. A lot of their repairs look a little rough around the edges, but they seemed to be effective. I can't disparage their seamanship. They maintained a proper watch and seemed to make use of harnesses when appropriate. They seem like competent sailors. 

Something about their outlook does disturb me though. They are basically living like scavengers. For that to work, there has to be a class of productive people for them to scavenge off of (the rest of us). If you go to the guy's website, he's clearly educated. The girls all seem to be pretty sharp too. I would guess that these kids all came from solid middle class homes and are choosing to live this way. If I was an actual homeless person, that would piss me off a little. 

Anyway, from a sailing point of view, they are way more accomplished than I was at that age, so who am I to say what's right.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

I'm torn on this vid. Some aspects I agree with - like using an old plastic boat, being frugal etc... He appeared, to me, to be a little arrogant, perhaps that's why the ladies got rid of his ass... I agree with the comments on the fish scene, gimme a break! Dispatch the thing already! It bothered my wife when they were anchoring with however many anchors they needed. Seemed a little shady, we wouldn't want them close to us!


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

I wouldn't want to be either aboard or downwind of that boat- three stinkfoots in an enclosed space can't smell like roses.


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

So, what does a guy do with three college girls on a small boat all summer?


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

cormeum said:


> So, what does a guy do with three college girls on a small boat all summer?


Evidently, not much, they kicked his ass off! :laugher


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## BobS2 (Sep 16, 2008)

I heard a term recently that may apply to these youngsters. 
"Trustifarians"
Living the Boho life with a nice fat safety net that gets things like safety harnesses and fresh diesel engines, and airfare back to San Francisco.
They definitely re-fit and sailed a hulk way more places than many of us ever will. So I give them credit. They do need to learn to kill fish and sharpen knives though.


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## my900ss (Sep 25, 2010)

I could not tolerate spending any time with these folks...

I am left with the impression that the narrator is a bit of an elitist/arrogant sort.

He is against using sails, is a scavenger a minimalist of sorts believing in his self supposed earth friendly lifestyle is better than anothers. Yet he leaves nothing better off than from when he arrived. The workmanship on the boat is poor, the things he "borrows" are left worse off than when he selected them for use.

The young lady with the lip ring is the Alpha male on this cruise and the narrator is a fairly emasculated man. Where as the idea of flying to FL, finding and reviving an abandoned boat to sail the Caribbean with 3 young free spirited women would seem like a grand adventure, what we saw in the video was a far cry from ideal or even its true potential.... but they did it and I did not so more power to them I just would like to keep them two or three moorings over from myself.


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## zboss (Mar 26, 2006)

I liked the video and I commend them on their initiative. It will make a great footnote in their resumes.

Interesting they didn't mention anything about sea sickness.

With that said, I cannot condone steeling or living on someone's boat like a deadbeat. You bought your boat - live on it. I have a vacation home that has been broken into and used in the same manner and it pissed me off to no end. We also have had someone "look after" the house only to find out that they moved their relatives in.

He lost the girls the moment he put on the bathing suit and top. Emasculated is spot on.

3-4 anchors? Are you nuts? 

They need a cleaver.

I also wondered how much they paid for the iron and the labor to put it in, the solar panels, batteries, etc.


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

zboss said:


> He lost the girls the moment he put on the bathing suit and top. Emasculated is spot on.
> 
> .


Yeah, pretty sad- no wonder they booted him off.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

BobS2 said:


> I heard a term recently that may apply to these youngsters.
> "Trustifarians"


Yes, my thoughts as well!


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Like most of us, these folks are neither good nor evil. I see them as being young and inconsistent in their values. I admire what they were able to actually pull off. By same token, their lack of respect for other people's property, or acceptance of just plan stealing things is just plan wrong headed. Many of their actions are just plan dangerous like the mast stepping portion is just plan scary. Much of the information in the introduction is just plain wrong! (Their boat is not a Pearson 30, at least like the Pearson 30 in the literature. I thought it might be a coaster but in most shots it looks like a Irwin 30. Everett Pearson never went bankrupt. He was partners with is cousin Clint in Pearson. Pearson was sold to Grumman. Everett started Tillotson Pearson and Clint Bristol. Bristol went bankrupt and so on).

At heart I admire the resilience and ingenuity and energy of these kids and what they were able to accomplish. I only wish they had done it honestly and with a little more responsibility.

Jeff


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

When I see how free young people can be today it is hard for me to not have a sour grapes sort of reaction. When I was in college, if you dropped out a semester, you got drafted. Then the day after you graduated you had to complete your ROTC obligation or you got drafted. By the time that was finished, it was time to stop goofing off and get on with a career.
But I am happy for them to have that freedom, eventhough lots of working class kids don't.
John


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## solman55 (Mar 6, 2010)

I think it is great and if you look up the fellow I am sure they had plenty of money they just decided to do it a certain way, I am not sure his real name but he is a hacker who now works with many companies to help avoid this, very cool dude in my opinion and I would very much like to meet him and the crew. I have nothing against him and people who complain just wish to do the same, now I do not agree with their use of others gear and such but the rest is fine with me. I think what they did is the grand adventure, just because they didn't do it exactly the way I would have or others would have they did it and enjoyed it, the great adventure is setting a goal and doing it and having fun, and I plan on doing something similar with better gear and safety in mind but similar.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

It took about two seconds to google this dope and find he is a well known computer hacker. Those that are enamored by this story are simply projecting their own desire to be at sea. These folks are playing you, as a hacker would. Frugal, live off the land, etc. Bull....... You've all been had.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

wonk said:


> ... What's to be mad about?


Stolen property? Could have as easily been yours. He glorifies theft in the narrative within the vid.

The new mast, rigging, sails, solar array, gps and yanmar..... please. If they didn't steal them too, then the economics of this tale are not possible.

Their admitted lack of integrity in the film, combined with his career as a hacker, brings question to the credibility of the entire story.

That's what I meant about being had. If you want to enjoy it as fiction, so be it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

wonk said:


> .....some grey area between stealing and scavenging.............I can tell you that the possible theft of some wood by some kids is small potatoes. So small it doesn't even rate......


Clearly, we have different values, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

You are forgetting the encouragement to steal from the foreclosure inventory, although he didn't actually do it, and the damage to the davit on the mega yacht.

I think this guy loves to sail and made a hoax vid that plays well within his circle of anarchy buds. Cheating is in this guy's blood.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Well, living aboard someone else's mega-yacht isn't kosher IMHO. It's breaking and entering and trespassing at the minimum, regardless of what the idiot caretaker of the boat says. It wasn't his boat to grant permission for them to use.

I think the big ticket gear was actually bought by them or their families, and that was downplayed to make the tale more fitting with their aspirations and philosophies.


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## solman55 (Mar 6, 2010)

I agree everything they did is so small and not really a crime if they did scavenge parts which I have done for my boat, bits of rope here, wire there, no big deal, living on some rich dudes yacht is not that great or a thing to do I agree as I wouldnt want squatters on my boat. So just because he is a hacker that has done some good work with google to prevent such activities I dont see any moral issue. here.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

wonk said:


> If you are really offended by the notion that some kids stole some wood to do something cool with it, or that they poop in a toilet that doesn't belong to them, you should be thankful that you've lived a life so sheltered from real crime that this stuff still matters to you.


 Please post your address, so that i may come over to your house uninvited and unannounced and use your bathroom and maybe stay for the weekend. After all, you wouldn't press charges, would you, since, apparently, you're okay with it?

look, just because the crime is not violent, doesn't make it right. If your argument is that it is a matter of degree, well, how many of the "real" criminals you see started doing petty stuff that nobody thought was important, so they ignored it, and the criminals got bolder and the criminal activity escalated? Here's another thought- if this is what the crew thought was acceptable to include in their video, what activities did they edit out?

In any event, something tells me that whole boat stinks of patchouli.


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

I'l join bljones in coming over too wonk. Sounds like we can have a big ol' party at your place. Maybe you have somethings I could use too. Its just scavanging right? No real crime in that..... Also, maybe I can just do some petty crimes in your town seeing as you don't care. I'll just tell the cops the DA's office is OK with it. Think your shop owners, marina owners, boat owners will think differently? Wonder how many of them would like to know that an ADA in their city/county has such a cavalier attitude twords crime. And I have not lived a sheltered life either ADA Wonk. I have had a house broken in to twice when I was in my 20's. Had a car broken in to, tried to be stolen as well and had a car stolen. Maybe these criminals all started out as petty criminals.... thanks for your awesome work with bringing them to justice.....


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## zboss (Mar 26, 2006)

I have a question... how did they gain legal entry into the Bahamas, T&C, and DR without a boat title or registration?


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## RobCross (Aug 31, 2010)

zboss said:


> I have a question... how did they gain legal entry into the Bahamas, T&C, and DR without a boat title or registration?


Well according to the video he mentioned "sneaking" back into the DR, so I would assume they just went were they wanted without worrying about the hassles of doing it legally.

As for as only stealing the wood, the video implied they "scavenged" everything else. While our marina doesn't have any boat scrap yards, where can you just "find" a mast, anchors, cleats, lines,sails, etc... to finish out a bare hull. Either they spent a lot of money, even with junk yard prices, or it was stolen, that value is more than just some wood.

While I am pretty sure Wonk if you came home and found 4 people squatting in your home without your permission you wouldn't have that its just not that big of a deal attitude. I grew up with the attitude if its not yours don't touch it, and even if someone lets me borrow something it is returned in the exact same or even better condition. While you say you never said it was OK you imply though its no big deal, I just cant fathom that line of thinking, theft is theft plain and simple.

Another part that sort of torqued me was when they were going by the cruise ship, the attitude that was given on the film, or at least the impression I got, was how DARE those people be sharing the same ocean as I do and like they had the disco night just to piss of the "free spirits".... While I am not a big fan of cruise ships guess what they have every right to be there as anyone else.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

You know what, these kids set out to do something and they put a lot of work into it and did it. Are they perfect role models for your children...no, but I don't think any of them are "bad" people either (career criminals). None of them had probably taken on a project that challenged them like this and I'm sure all of them learned a hell of a lot; about sailing, navigating, standing watch, and about themselves and they had a lot of laughs. Could be worse. I found myself smiling along with them a lot.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

wonk said:


> Man. You all are kinda assholes.
> 
> 1) I'm not saying it's OK for anyone to break into a boat or anything else and use the bathroom. Period. However, I am saying that most every college kid has done worse than that and it doesn't make them bad people, it makes them kids. Acting like they must be the scum of the earth and a drain on society because they did something no worse than nearly every other kid their age is just uninformed and naive.
> 
> ...


So, if it is really as inconsequential as you suggest, then post your address so I can come crap at your house. Better yet, post the location and name of your boat, so that I can borrow it whenever I want to. After all, in the grand scheme of things it's really no big deal....until it is YOUR house, or YOUR boat...
...Which is why some keyboard commandos hide behind screen names, so that they stay safe and have one more layer of security that may prevent some "internet-angry" individual from crapping in their bathroom uninvited.

BTW, if you don't see the hypocrisy of an ADA rationalizing trespassing, vandalism, and theft, then quit your job, now. You have the makings of a great defense attorney.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

We seem to be confusing the ability and capacity of our legal system to manage these misfits, from society's obligation to police itself civilly. I reject their approach to freedom, which came at the random misfortune of others. No matter the significance, their gain was from the poisonous tree and, therefor, nullified.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Yoo hoo, mr. prosecutor.... the point is uh, over ther... well, never mind, for several posts now you have missed it , and while you spend paragraphs pointing out how angry I am, the one resorting to profanity is , uh... you. I get that you don't get it. But the fact that you don't get it doesn't make me wrong, no matter how upset you get.


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## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

wonk said:


> ...


Well done.


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## sailjunkie (Nov 4, 2009)

wonk said:


> Man. You all are kinda assholes.


This is when the debate stops being enjoyable. We may have varying opinions, but I doubt if name-calling will change anyone's mind.

I am trying to reconcile the views on this thread with the views on an earlier thread, about "free loading" in George Town. Many of us rightly criticized the OP on that thread, and I'm not sure that the behaviour of these folks is all that different.

IMHO when these folks look back on their trip 10 years from now, they will have many good memories, but will also wish that they had done a few things differently.


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## RobCross (Aug 31, 2010)

wonk said:


> For that matter, it's worth noting that the guy in the video, the only one we know anything about, is already a successful productive character. More so than the college kids who will get arrested for petty property crimes this halloween weekend and sit across from me in arraignment on monday morning.


Dude, have you actually looked at any of his website, its almost like seeing a train wreck, horrifying and at the same time you can't stop looking. He glorifies a "productive" lifestyle, things such as squatting, breaking and entering, train hopping, hitch hiking, eating from dumpsters, it just goes on.

It is, in my own opinion, way worse than the occasional stupid college prank. He lives off of others, *illegally*, and doesn't leave anything better off than when he found/stole it. Basically he chooses to live a homeless lifestyle because he doesn't want to pay for anything when he can just take it. That just defies my idea of being a productive member of society, but hey that's just me.

I do admire them reviving the old neglected boat, I plan on doing the same next summer just not the way they did.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

wonk said:


> It made me mad and I should have ignored bljones a few posts before I did.


Or you could have rethought your point of view. But hey, it's always easier to ignore those who disagree with you. Have you thought about a career in politics?

HTFU counselor.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

sailjunkie said:


> IMHO when these folks look back on their trip 10 years from now, they will have many good memories, but will also wish that they had done a few things differently.


That I doubt. If down the road they become respectable tax paying citizens they will bow their head and shake it with a sheepish grin at the youths they were then launch into a story of their great adventure. As long as they don't land up in a Caribbean prison I don't think they will have any regrets. I regret not doing something like this when I had the chance, although I would have done if without the freeloading.

Having spent a decade or so in ski towns I know the trustafarian thing well. As an example most recently I drove a few hours North to see a concert with some friends and camp in a friends yard for the weekend. While at the show they ran into a friend (skinny, shirtless and long dreads).
He had no ticket but was looking for the free hookup. Turns out he is married with kids, drove himself up there in his car from the home his parents bought in a ski town. He just wanted not to pay to come in and does this often. BTW gas to get there cost more than the ticket.

I do not like freeloaders. It is nice to help out someone in need but what goes around should come around. With this in mind I do not agree with the squatting or scrounging, especially if they stole off of working or project boats.

What an awesome adventure, they cruised the Caribbean on their own, while young enough to really enjoy it. Not sure I would be able to have as much fun if I get to do it in my 50s or 60s. I certainly wont be able to afford to do it with 3 women as my crew.

They have more money than they profess to, no doubt and some of their values are questionable. I think some of the stealing and scrounging parts are some bit of posturing for the camera. It happens everywhere even among respected citizens. When i am in California people always are posing to be more successful than they are, in Louisiana they claimed to spend more time on their boat than they did. They made sacrifices, took risks and worked hard to make this adventure happen. The editing and narrating was done to make a statement of politics, his. I don't think the peeing over the side or awkward killing of the fish was done just for the camera, I think that was how they did things, slightly clueless and free.

As far as emasculating himself for putting on a girls bikini, did your opinion of him really change at this point? I think this just validated what you thought up till then. I doubt the girls thought of him as the role model for masculinity up till this point.

I don't agree with the message in the movie or methods of doing some things but wish I had done something like this when I was a "young" man.


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## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

bljones said:


> Or you could have rethought your point of view. But hey, it's always easier to ignore those who disagree with you. Have you thought about a career in politics?
> 
> HTFU counselor.


Pretty sure he's still ignoring you, but hey, as long as you get the last post in you win right?


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

I knew it wouldn't take long before somebody would quote me, effectively bypassing the "ignore" feature. Thanks for playing along, Argyle.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

One of these days, when I am far off the coast I will try the direct deposit approach.


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## zboss (Mar 26, 2006)

rockDAWG said:


> One of these days, when I am far off the coast I will try the direct deposit approach.


I am actually very surprised that this merited any significant attention considering the wide variety of sailing experience out there.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

rockDAWG said:


> One of these days, when I am far off the coast I will try the direct deposit approach.


Its far less dramatic for a guy.


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## US27inKS (Feb 6, 2005)

I think these kids had a great adventure on minimal bucks, and I'm glad I got to see it.

I could have done without the knowledge of a few things that they did like steal some wood and squat on someone else's boat, but in the grand scheme of things it's small potatoes.

I had a group of kids come into my shop with an old school bus they were living in. They were part of a nationwide group of people who traveled the country living however they can, and occasionally meet up to sit in a circle and play the bongo. The kids I met were all college age, and most had typical suburban homes waiting for them when they were tired of the adventure. The school bus they were driving was acquired by trading a ford crown vic that was having mechanical problems. To pay me for the repairs I did on their bus, half the kids went to home depot in the morning to pick up some day labor, and the other half when to my mother in laws house and saved my wife and I a full weekend of yard work. Good kids doing what they had to do to live, much like moxie and his crew.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

zboss said:


> I am actually very surprised that this merited any significant attention considering the wide variety of sailing experience out there.


For me it is. I was surprised how open and direct she is when comes the nature calls. The quality that you can't find in today's suburban kids. These kids will go places.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

BTW, i am still snickering at the fact that they locked their boat when leaving.


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## RobCross (Aug 31, 2010)

bljones said:


> BTW, i am still snickering at the fact that they locked their boat when leaving.


LOL I didn't even pay attention to that... Maybe they didn't want anyone else "scrounging" off them??


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Ever notice that hypocrisy and hilarity have the same number of syllables?


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

rockDAWG said:


> ...... These kids will go places.


They are lucky they didn't go to jail....


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## denalione (Apr 9, 2008)

The part I enjoyed most was the irony of the Earth First kids bludgeoning the fish to death. 

I may look down on some of the stuff they did (stealing, squatting) but I would have done the same thing at 20.


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## trisstan87 (Aug 15, 2010)

I actually thought overall that this endeavor was in a word, awesome. One word, thats my choice. There are plenty of close, very close seconds but they did what they set out to do and they, nor any PERSON, were any worse for wear because of it. I did remember some stuff from it I thought was worth noting. 
Where are lien sales in Florida? Google did not have much to offer.
A guy really went 4 months with only salt water to drink??? As a third year Bio student I am finding this pretty incredible and perhaps incredulous?
Bernard Moitessier is my idol. 
Davet crane for stepping a mast? Lol “Oh $h!t” is right
Charles the boat watcher was happy to have the company, LOL! Where can I hire this guy! 
It was the wrong key… Priceless, I'll make sure to check that first should my engine decide not to start up.
Sounds like somebody has a problem with Disco parties.. 80’s baby?
+1 for the Bahamian cross-walk symbol
Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww--- You know what I am talking about.
“wait, more tangling IS HAPPENING!” 
54’ dive for fish is impressive. Upwards of 30’ and beyond the pressure is really immense on the ears.
The Mahi Mahi was killed extremely poorly. God they sawed its head off like an al-qeada video. And it took them like 5 minutes to do it.. 
The Haitian sailboat is OP. It makes me a lot less worried about sea worthiness!
Overall a pretty interesting and very thorough documentary. I only wish the narrators voice was perhaps not so monotone? Although his voice in general seems to be a bit weak for narration.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I still think this did not happen as advertised. 

It is a ruse designed to play us. If you can be manipulated by your personal desire for adventure, you look past the indiscretions. If you are amused by the childish rejection of society's rules, they feed you plenty.

I've already rejected the glorification of theft, etc. I loved the observation above that they locked their own boat. Priceless!! 

The inconsistency of the facts in the tale, make it highly suspicious. As they say, it wouldn't hold up in court. For example, it would be MORE expensive to fix up that hulk than to buy a boat in marginally better condition. The scene of marching dividers down the chart and later learning they were miles off course is hard to believe when they knew they were in Bahamian shoal waters with a GPS aboard. 

Nice try all around. This was meant to pluck the strings and it worked. It has worked on me, it just plucked different strings than those that admire it. 

Congrats.


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

I am going to repost what I posted over at AS. Though I will ad this, Trisstan, so you condone stealing, illegal entry in to countries, living off of others, & squatting as long as you do not see anyone or know of anyone being "harmed"? How do you define it?

_The guy/narrator has his own computer security firm that apparently does pretty good so they had access to $$, I think the gals had access to $$ too. Which makes the whole idea of "table diving", "scavanging", squatting, stealing, and entering various island nations illegaly all the more annoying. Why do people glamorize this way of living and encourage it? They live like this by choice not necessity and they steal from people to make their way through life. Thieves, no matter how much romance you wrap around this "adventure" of theirs, just common thieves. The whole entitlement attitude just annoys the hell out of me._


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## HeartsContent (Sep 14, 2010)

wonk said:


> I'm an assistant district attorney, and I deal with kids the age of those in the movie all the time. If my only problem was to go after kids for stealing some wood, possibly damaging a davit (I didn't think the davit was damaged, I thought the failure was at the harness), and pooping in a yacht head, I'd be a much happier guy. These kids are certainly doing less social harm than the kids I deal with who are committing REAL crime (rape, assault, grand larceny, every narcotics offense in the statutes, property damage that goes way beyond a yacht davit, on and on). Even the kids who aren't out there committing felonies aren't doing much better than the kids in the movie. I'd guess that 90% of kids, by the time they're in their 20's, have damaged some property, trespassed a bit, that kind of thing. At that age, the petty stuff is just petty stuff...
> 
> If you are really offended by the notion that some kids stole some wood to do something cool with it, or that they poop in a toilet that doesn't belong to them, you should be thankful that you've lived a life so sheltered from real crime that this stuff still matters to you. Because I can assure you that there are a lot of people out there that suffer at the hands of actual criminals committing actual crimes.
> 
> If all kids were like the kids in this film, the world would be a better place. Sure you might find some poop in your toilet from time to time, and a few sticks of wood might go missing, but in the grand scheme of things, these kids are on our side....


Excellent post!

The "Police State" mentality of our society is ridiculous. Mischief and criminal behavior are two completely different worlds and it breaks my heart to see good kids in a mischief offense being treated like criminals.

As for the video, I really enjoyed it.

Very refreshing and really made you think about what you "really" need to cruise.


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## trisstan87 (Aug 15, 2010)

cb32863 said:


> I am going to repost what I posted over at AS. Though I will ad this, Trisstan, so you condone stealing, illegal entry in to countries, living off of others, & squatting as long as you do not see anyone or know of anyone being "harmed"? How do you define it?I]


 OK, I have been asked a loaded and very controverisal question. I do not hold much hope of swaying already formulated opinions but I will do my best to elaborate on the defining part.
My defense is that I have no defese. What they did is wrong, and unlawful. Hands down.
My argument however is this: Severity.
They did nothing that warrants such severity by some of the posters here. Besides the people whos boat they actually squatted in of course. Stealing wood? I frankly do not care. If you are stealing pallets of good lumber from Home Depot that is something. Taking scraps from various places to get real use out of them instead of just watching them rot into oblivion? Comon. Un tuck those pannies gents, they appear a bit bunched.
Living off others. Are you kidding me? Preachers you are in the wrong chapel. You want to get angry about moochers? For gods sakes man take a look around at our nation. The sense of entitlement, the sense of victimihood when anything bad befalls us, the sense of everyone deserving a hand out or a trophy. Welfare abuse, now theres something to rant about. These are kids who lived off others for what I take to be a big experiement in life and sailing. Now, tell me they are perpetually mooching like millions of Americans do everyday as a WAY OF LIFE and I have a problem. A big problem. I will save the politics for another time however.
Entry in to countries illeagally? Lol... Much bigger fish to fry m8 then 4 kids sailing around in a delapidated sailboat. In my state it's estimated we have over 800,000 illeagals. These are people who work here, may or may not pay taxes, send monies to other nations and occupy jobs that citizens should be able to have first pick at. The difference is so stark that I feel any further elaboration is unessecary. 
That pretty much somes up my personal defining. 
I think that as people we should not be so quick to judge or criticize, and if we decide to do so, we should at least attempt to do it over something worthwhile. I just don't think this is that. Chill out.


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## trisstan87 (Aug 15, 2010)

+1 for Wonks post. He hit the nail right on the head, just with a different hammer than I did =)


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## RobCross (Aug 31, 2010)

trisstan87 said:


> These are kids who lived off others for what I take to be a big experiement in life and sailing. Now, tell me they are perpetually mooching like millions of Americans do everyday as a WAY OF LIFE and I have a problem.


Trisstan, if you look at his website this is the way he lives. My understanding was the experiment was the boat, the way of life is theirs already. Unless the stories he posts on his website are fiction, then he mooches when supposedly with his programming firm he shouldn't have to.

Which is worse? Mooching off the system when its all you have and have ever known or having money but deciding to mooch off the system(IE squatting and so forth) cause you can?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"I actually thought overall that this endeavor was in a word, awesome.... nor any PERSON, were any worse for wear because of it."

Whew, and for a minute there I thought the guy whose dinghy davit got trrashed, got screwed over.


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

So as far as severity is concerned. You are OK with people just using your boat, house, car when you aren't? Going through your stuff and taking what they need? Easy for you to say that it really is not that big of a deal when it isn't happening to you. You would really hire a caretaker that doesn't do anything about people living/using the very thing, house or boat, that they are supposed to be watching out for? Also, what part of Illegal Entry do you not get? So we are to turn a blind eye to all of this? I guess seeing as they are just a group of happy go lucky kids just being kids. So tell me where you live so I can pop over and borrow some stuff, use your place, your car. Its really no big deal. I bet you have some things I really could use too. Cool broh?


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## PaulfromNWOnt (Aug 20, 2010)

I really hate for this to be my first post here, but....

If you feel justified in condemning these kids for what they've done: Fine.

If you feel justified in voicing those opinions in a public forum, and calling down anyone whose opinion differs from yours in any way: Also fine.

If you've foisted your opinion onto someone in this regard, and have ever so much as gotten a parking ticket: You're a hipocrite! You are one of those folks who makes their own definition of right and wrong regardless of the law.

Morality, and legality are not the same thing.

p.s. I try to follow my own rules, but sometimes fail miserably =-D

As to the video: I enjoyed Harry Potter as well, but I'm certain there was some literary license taken there too. A story is a story after all.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Just curious, but exactly what is the difference between morality and legality when it comes to breaking and entering, trespassing, theft, and vandalism?

Getting a parking ticket does not involve trespassing on someone else's property, using their property without permission, or stealing/damaging their property as a general rule. Yes, parking and getting a ticket is against the law, but it is generally a CIVIL FINE, not a CRIMINAL ACT.

If you don't know that there's a difference between a civil fine and a criminal act, then you might want to do a bit more learning. AFAIK, most criminal acts are both illegal and immoral, making the fact that there is a distinction between the two pretty MOOT.



PaulfromNWOnt said:


> I really hate for this to be my first post here, but....
> 
> If you feel justified in condemning these kids for what they've done: Fine.
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Holy crap it's like The Philosophers' Circle around here. What a spotlight on the generation gap! You old boomers don't remember Kerouac and Burroughs for crying out loud? Lighten the hell up!

bl, when you grow dreads you can come poop on my boat and I won't call the cops. You need some chill, bro.

Wonk's right, most of you Nuns did stuff in your 20's you're just not fessing up to. I was a petty criminal in college and look how well I turned out!

Good lord you sanctimonious mooks. They did it - CHEAP - and had some good times. And no one (except a mahi-mahi) was seriously harmed. Power to the kidz.

(PS - +1 Paul...and welcome to SN, dude.)


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

This thread definitely delivers!


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Unlike you, smack, I've been there, done that when it comes to living aboard cheap. I didn't resort to stealing and trespassing, because I could live with being cold, broke, occasionally hungry, and having questionable hygiene, but if I resorted to crimes against others, whether property crimes or trespassing, then I would have crossed a line. It's okay to be broke and cheap, it ain't okay to steal your way out of it. In my mind, in those days and now, it's like cheating- Thoreau, the founding father of living off the grid, didn't steal, so neithher did I. As you can see, Smack, i'm not holding the stinkfeet to a higher standard than I have held myself in the same situation. But we all have different standards, and some of us have none, right up until they are on the opposite end of a bottom-feeders material wealth liberation program.


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## PaulfromNWOnt (Aug 20, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> Just curious, but exactly what is the difference between morality and legality when it comes to breaking and entering, trespassing, theft, and vandalism?
> 
> Getting a parking ticket does not involve trespassing on someone else's property, using their property without permission, or stealing/damaging their property as a general rule. Yes, parking and getting a ticket is against the law, but it is generally a CIVIL FINE, not a CRIMINAL ACT.
> 
> If you don't know that there's a difference between a civil fine and a criminal act, then you might want to do a bit more learning. AFAIK, most criminal acts are both illegal and immoral, making the fact that there is a distinction between the two pretty MOOT.


Breaking the law is breaking the law. Where's the line? Who draws it? Are you willing to concede that someone's opinion while different from yours may also be right?

Despite my feelings on what was allegedly done in the video, I'm only taking issue with the vehemence others are bringing forth in their posts. Nearest I can tell, the only serious harm came to the fish.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

smackdaddy said:


> Holy crap it's like The Philosophers' Circle around here. What a spotlight on the generation gap! You old boomers don't remember Kerouac and Burroughs for crying out loud? Lighten the hell up!
> 
> bl, when you grow dreads you can come poop on my boat and I won't call the cops. You need some chill, bro.
> 
> ...


Sanctimonious my a$$ Smacky. I've spent a LOT of time and thousands of dollars refitting my boat, if I got to the dock and some lowlife had moved aboard and trashed her I wouldn't be very understanding.

And WONK, since when is breaking and entering not a felony?

Jim


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

How about the guy whose lifting crane/davit was damaged stepping the mast? Didn't he come to harm...his boat was vandalized. How about the people who owned the boat that they were squatting on, wasn't their sense of privacy and their property trespassed upon.

Now, you say "serious harm"...so you're saying that to harm someone is okay as long as it isn't serious... so if someone beats you, but doesn't break any bones, that's okay??? Pretty slippery slope to be walking on IMHO.



PaulfromNWOnt said:


> Breaking the law is breaking the law. Where's the line? Who draws it? Are you willing to concede that someone's opinion while different from yours may also be right?
> 
> Despite my feelings on what was allegedly done in the video, I'm only taking issue with the vehemence others are bringing forth in their posts. Nearest I can tell, the only serious harm came to the fish.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

bljones said:


> Unlike you, smack, I've been there, done that when it comes to living aboard cheap. I didn't resort to stealing and trespassing, because I could live with being cold, broke, occasionally hungry, and having questionable hygiene, but if I resorted to crimes against others, whether property crimes or trespassing, then I would have crossed a line. It's okay to be broke and cheap, it ain't okay to steal your way out of it. In my mind, in those days and now, it's like cheating- Thoreau, the founding father of living off the grid, didn't steal, so neithher did I. As you can see, Smack, i'm not holding the stinkfeet to a higher standard than I have held myself in the same situation. But we all have different standards, and some of us have none, right up until they are on the opposite end of a bottom-feeders material wealth liberation program.


Okay - you've lived _aboard_ cheap. Cool. I've lived in very cramped, minimal quarters too - very cheap - for 2 years. It was called the Peace Corps. Others have done it in tents, barracks, foxholes, caves, whatever. So don't give yourself too much credit.

Look, bottom line is that, based on your CV above - I respect you more than I respect them. Okay? Seriously. You were virtuous. They weren't. You broke no laws whatsoever. They did.

But, I don't hold the contempt for them you (and some others) seem to - especially since I'm guilty of the same kind of stuff when I was young. Those kids were good for some true laughs (for them and us). You guys are serious buzzkills.

I'm just saying your contempt is pretty extreme as wonk rightly points out. It's not necessarily wrong - it's just extreme. Most of us aren't that pure.

The biggest lesson out of all this is that really crappy boats can go a lot of really fun places without the need for SAR.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Smack, my contempt for them isn't extreme, but perhaps my failure to walk away from the discussion is. I challenged the hypocrites who condone what they did and downplay it is mischief, while at the same time the same people would be calling the cops if somebody broke into THEIR boat, even if nothing was stolen. Back somebody into a corner where they have to face their double standard, and there's no way to come out without looking like the bad guy

Smacky, I'll issue the same challenge to you that i did to wonk, who apparently plays a lawyer on the internet: 
if you really think it's okay that they took what they need when they needed it, including a dump on somebody else's boat, then post up your address so i can come take a dump at your house, maybe rummage through the fridge. Because if it really is no big deal, then it should be no big deal if it happens to you, right?
But.... it is kind of a big deal when it's your boat, or house, or hard work at risk, huh?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

A pretty good philosopher once wrote:



> Although I believe in the strength of community, sometimes it can also act as a cultural sink-hole. Since community is almost always based on similar interest, I sometimes find myself drowning in a chorus of predictably similar thoughts. As an escape from that life growing stale, hitchhiking is a great way to brighten my eyes.


I've known some forums like that.

Look, disagreement is good...if you don't get bent. Keeps things spicy.

(BTW - my boat is a Telstar 28 somewhere in New England. Fire away.)


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

LOL. Well played, Smack. 
*golf clap*


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

nice to see smacky is too chicken sh!t to point out he's a Catalina 27 lake sailor in Texas 



smackdaddy said:


> A pretty good philosopher once wrote:
> 
> I've known some forums like that.
> 
> ...


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

smackdaddy said:


> Look, disagreement is good...if you don't get bent. Keeps things spicy.
> 
> (BTW - my boat is a Telstar 28 somewhere in New England. Fire away.)


I'll admit this one got me bent. Wonk touched a nerve with me more than the narrator of the video.

_(And Smack's real boat is a blue catamaran with a pilothouse  )_


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## PaulfromNWOnt (Aug 20, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> How about the guy whose lifting crane/davit was damaged stepping the mast? Didn't he come to harm...his boat was vandalized. How about the people who owned the boat that they were squatting on, wasn't their sense of privacy and their property trespassed upon.
> 
> Now, you say "serious harm"...so you're saying that to harm someone is okay as long as it isn't serious... so if someone beats you, but doesn't break any bones, that's okay??? Pretty slippery slope to be walking on IMHO.


To borrow from my previous post:

Breaking the law is breaking the law. 
Where's the line? *Ask SD*
Who draws it? *I guess SD gets this one as well*
Are you willing to concede that someone's opinion while different from yours may also be right?*I guess not*

Despite my feelings on what was *allegedly* done in the video, I'm only taking issue with the *vehemence* others are bringing forth in their posts. Nearest I can tell, the only serious harm came to the fish.

As to the slope I'm treading, I'm fairly confident that it was a real fish that got hacked. Didn't look like a special effects fish to me.

The other events *portrayed* in the video may well have been staged for our entertainment. I've never met any of the characters in the video, so I can't (and won't) comment on their moral fiber. 
What actions I would take if put into the situations *depicted* in the video are strictly speculatory as I'm not there.


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## PaulfromNWOnt (Aug 20, 2010)

BTW, Michael Moore presents his movies in documentary format as well.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> nice to see smacky is too chicken sh!t to point out he's a Catalina 27 lake sailor in Texas


Oh, thanks a lot Dog! Now every patchouli-pooping deadbeat knows exactly which boat is mine!


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

Smack. *yawn* Seriously, "You nuns" "mooks"? Been called worse by a better class of people. Got called, and BL too, an a-hole a few pages ago in this very thread..... /sniffle.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Welcome aboard, Paul.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

PaulfromNWOnt said:


> BTW, Michael Moore presents his movies in documentary format as well.


?????


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

cb32863 said:


> Smack. *yawn* Seriously, "You nuns" "mooks"? Been called worse by a better class of people. Got called, and BL too, an a-hole a few pages ago in this very thread..... /sniffle.


See Wonk, they're already moving you up the class chain, dude! I gotta work harder on my cussing.


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## PaulfromNWOnt (Aug 20, 2010)

JimMcGee said:


> ?????


Sorry dude.... I know it doesn't make sense.

I'm good with that.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

smackdaddy said:


> See Wonk, they're already moving you up the class chain, dude! I gotta work harder on my cussing.


Just imagine the meltdown factor had this argument taken place over at CA..

That forum would have imploded by now..:laugher


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

chrisncate said:


> Just imagine the meltdown factor had this argument taken place over at CA..
> 
> That forum would have imploded by now..:laugher


C'mon dude, you went in there with guns a-blazing. What did you expect?

You reminded me of myself when I first hit Sailnet in the FightClub thread. Good times.


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## trisstan87 (Aug 15, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> How about the guy whose lifting crane/davit was damaged stepping the mast? Didn't he come to harm...his boat was vandalized. How about the people who owned the boat that they were squatting on, wasn't their sense of privacy and their property trespassed upon.


Hey SD, first off I am a big fin of yours and feel like you are a top contribute r to this website and do loads to inform sailors of all skill sets.
However I think you are putting too much of the blame on the kids. IF I remember correctly it was not there idea to use the davet, in fact they had no idea that's what they were going to use until they arrived there. Also, they did not believe it was feasible, but they were talked into it by a "professional" in the business with loads more knowledge then them.
To put it into context it would be along the lines of someone like you telling someone like me to use a davet to put my mast on. I would look at you like "what? Are you serious? That is crazy!" However, knowing that you are a well informed source on all that is sailing I can tell you I would have a hard time saying no to the idea if someone like you pushed it enough with your loads of experience.
Parents do this all the time btw, they are not always right.
I am just waiting for someone to reply with the rebuttal "If your friends jumped off a cliff would you do it?" Please don't be that person. 
As far as everything else I told you all in my post I did not defend them. There was nothing to defend, they broke the law so in that respect they are guilty.
My post was more along the lines of this:
Young people WILL, I say again WILL WILL WILL do stupid, unlawful, dangerous stuff. They will. I swear they will even if your little Johnny is the sweetest gem on the planet. Put little Johnny around a crowd of his friends in his prime adolescence years and you prepare your notepad to take notes because Johnny will find himself some trouble.
Now what trouble do you want Johnny to find? STOP IT! HE IS GOING TO FIND TROUBLE! He is, case closed. 
So, do you want Johnny to find trouble in a gang? What about in drugs or alcohol? What about in knocking up some little teenager at his school? What about little Johnny growing into big Johnny and being a bully? What about A MILLION THINGS WORSE THEN WHAT HAPPENED HERE!!!!!! ARGHHHHHHH!! Do you people not see this truly? Do you not see that the evil IS FOREVER present and that the lesser of the evils is always best IF IT IS A CONSTANT that evil exist and occurs? You wanna dope head or you wanna Hitler? You wanna thief or you wanna raper? I am not saying either of these is good, they are not, but if you continue to wait for a perfect Utopian society well then I say do not hold your breath.
You ALL DID stupid stuff. I am willing to bet A LOT of you did worse things than these kids and PROBABLY continue to do stupid and UNLAWFUL things.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone to continue this debate.
I just hope that whoever that person is, they can still see the common man from where they sit, so very high up on their pedastool.


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## trisstan87 (Aug 15, 2010)

Also, the davet IS wrong. I agree. If they were responsible for any damage then I hope the boats owners will find this video and use it as evidence for reparations. When you cause other people to have to shell out for your carelessness or selfishness or ineptitude or whatever, then you are crossing another line then what I am speaking of in general. So regarding the use of the davet, wrong. However, remember they were talked in to it by an ADULT in the industry who used his age,experience to talk them in to doing it.. Not that it makes it any better. Just saying the adult in the situation behave no better than the kids so he should share some of this aggression.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

smackdaddy said:


> C'mon dude, you went in there with guns a-blazing. What did you expect?
> 
> You reminded me of myself when I first hit Sailnet in the FightClub thread. Good times.


Naa, not at all. I went there and simply voiced my opinion about this very topic (bum boater vid), and I got the usual batch of standard CA reply's (either an inside joke directed at me, or an outright insult directed at me, or some reason why they (the bum boaters) were awesome and I was too stoopid for not seeing it ). CA is _way_ too much of a clique for a public forum, those guys need a private forum.

Just go read my posts (all 28 of em) and you can see for yourself. CA is full of people who like to dish it out, but cannot take it at all. Give it back in the slightest, and they cry like little girls. I never insulted anyone first over there, and I was cool (as usual) to those who were cool to me.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

trisstan, they are NOT kids. Quit using that term to absolve them. They are adults.


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## trisstan87 (Aug 15, 2010)

bljones said:


> trisstan, they are NOT kids. Quit using that term to absolve them. They are adults.


They are young adults. Also, do not blame me for what kids are today. 50 years ago an 18 year old was a man. He was expected to provide for his household and be a productive member of society.
Fast forward to current times and tell me the majority of today's 18 yr olds are "adults."

But ok, they are young people. Switch the words around, I still stand by my argument. Stone anyone?


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

Trisstan - I think you have gone over the top now.... "Let he who cast the first stone"? Really? No one ever said that they were saints, just that they did not agree with the fact that this was a glamorization of people who go through life commiting petty crimes and living off of others without giving anything back to those they take from. And that it is wrong. Plain and simple it is wrong and not to be applauded. And no, they are not KIDS. Talked in to it? Really, hmmmm guess they stopped being free thinkers for a while to justify what they needed.

And as I said before, how would you react if it was you they were "scavanging" from? Or say you came to your boat and some folks were staying in it? Would you give them a high 5 and hand them a beer? 

Anyone who thinks these people were awesome, how would you react to it being your property? Why won't you address that?


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

Can't we all agree that at the very least, they refused to flemmish their lines while docked? 

Honestly, would anyone argue that their seamanship is _good_?


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

trisstan87 said:


> They are young adults. Also, do not blame me for what kids are today. 50 years ago an 18 year old was a man. He was expected to provide for his household and be a productive member of society.
> Fast forward to current times and tell me the majority of today's 18 yr olds are "adults."
> 
> But ok, they are young people. Switch the words around, I still stand by my argument. Stone anyone?


They may not act like adults, but they are adults. Old enough to vote, old enough to drink, old enough to serve in the military, old enough for the death penalty, old enough to know better. Sanctimonious much?


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

bljones said:


> Or you could have rethought your point of view. But hey, it's always easier to ignore those who disagree with you. Have you thought about a career in politics?
> 
> HTFU counselor.


You know, bljones, if you would stop sounding so damn angry for must one minute, maybe you would get his point.

I think he stated it poorly, or could have stated it in a way that didn't make it sound like it was such a big deal. Once he did that, people who were rightly pissed at this kid living off of others (which I believe he does do) with his little anarchist lifestyle, went after him next. There was no backing out.

He was right. There are bigger problems in the world and big fish to fry. At the same time, if they took my stuff, or squatted in my place, and I bet if they took Wonk's stuff or squatted in his place, he wouldn't lie down for it.

Asking for his address and suggesting he quit his job was upping the flame war ante. Look where it got us.

After all, the "dirty little hippie" isn't here to beat on.

So let me weigh in on this:

1) If I found the anarchist and his buddies on my boat, or squatting in my home, there would be hell to pay and I doubt I would let it go.

2) Finding trash and using it is one thing, 'scavenging' the possessions (highly implied in this film on more than one occasion) is another.

3) They seemed to have their act together sailing wise and, in some odd way, their hearts were in the right place -- at moments. At other times, they seem the worst of freeloaders.

4) I found their sense of adventure interesting and entertaining and I enjoyed their attempt at doing some things simply. I liked their competence and what they said about safety (in some ways) and being capable.

5) So what if she took a dump over the rail. Sure, I can't unsee it but, they knew it would shock some of you -- they won.

So, why be do damn hard on each other here. We didn't squat in each others boats, or take stuff from each other?


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

chrisncate said:


> Can't we all agree that at the very least, they refused to flemmish their lines while docked?
> 
> Honestly, would anyone argue that their seamanship is _good_?


Good in some ways, very poor in others. I think they were the best example (on film and film isn't real) of daring adventures (with GPS and EIRPB equipment) out for a good time on the high seas.

Stupid as it may have been at times (or seemed) on film.


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## trisstan87 (Aug 15, 2010)

bljones said:


> They may not act like adults, but they are adults. Old enough to vote, old enough to drink, old enough to serve in the military, old enough for the death penalty, old enough to know better. Sanctimonious much?


Age wasn't specified. I joined the USMC at 18 and I could not drink... Legally. Being in the Marine corps did LOADS to grow me up, but I am still now just 23 and I still make mistakes. The key is to learn from them and not repeat the bad.

If it happened to me, I would be pissed. Hands down. Would I call the cops and file reports? Only if significant damage was done. 
When I was a kid on Halloween the neighborhood kids and I would sneak out and roll peoples houses with toilet paper. When you are 13 years old sneaking around at night with all your buddies throwing toilet paper around is a good time. However, one morning when I was 20 I woke up to find I had been T'Peed. Well I was pretty pissed. Toilet paper is a real pain in the rear to get out of tree branches. However, A part of me could only chuckle. Kids will be kids I said to myself as I prodded wet clumps of TP out of the trees in my front yard. I did not call the police, I did not rant and rave to my neighbors who saw my predicament. Sure, it was a pain to clean up and yes, if it happened a second or third time repeatedly I would have taken more drastic measures. Yet, the TP got cleaned up and I had a good story to tell my co-workers who then reveled me in their own tales of toilet paper mayhem.
So, I would be pissed off but I would keep it in perspective.

the stone analogy is not an attempt to sanctify our dear vagabonds. I put that quote their only to remind people that no one here is perfect, and no one here is without mistake. That is all.

I would not be so quick to diss the "kids" for listening to the adult. Millions of Americans get told things everyday that they in turn take to be truth. Dont believe me? Ok.
Our planet revolves around the sun right? Sure it does. But wait, have you actually checked it yourself? Did you go up in space or peer through the lens of a telescope and actual observe this for yourself? Or did you just believe what people told you and it "sounded" right and everyone else believes it so it must be true. *cough cough* 1930'2 Germany, *cough cough*
What about atoms? We get told everything is made up of atoms. We even see these cute little pictures in books showing us what they look like but tell me; has any of you ever actually SEEN an atom? Or do you just take their word for it?
Ok, less obvious now.
Politics. How many of you take the time to do independent research about the candidates running for office? Now how many of you based your opinions on second hand information from the media, other people, or articles written by "experts," and subsequently voted in that same manner.
War. How many of you take the time to understand the culture and history of the Muslim religion and how it relates to the war on terrorism? Now how many of you have made your opinions based on second hand accounts and observations?
Have I made my point yet? I could continue. Easily. These aren't kids were talking about either. These are adults who have every resource available to them to find the truth but 90% of the time they just take there word for it. Sounds right? Must be right. I am too busy to check it out, I have to pick up Susie from Soccer and get dinner started. This plays out millions of times a day all across our country. 
Now continue to sit there and talk about free thinkers...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

As an adult, I look back on things I did as a kid that I am not proud of. They were mistakes and I had an immature perspective. However, I am very certain that I would not have broadcast them to millions, because I actually knew they were wrong. 

To err is human. To admit your guilty and repent is redeeming. These schmucks want to be known as anarchists. They want you to know. That separates them from the normal stupid kid.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

trisstan87 said:


> IF I remember correctly it was not there idea to use the davet, in fact they had no idea that's what they were going to use until they arrived there. Also, they did not believe it was feasible, but they were talked into it by a "professional" in the business with loads more knowledge then them.


You nailed it trist. I think I remember that the dude was a broker - and that that "mega yacht" was one of his deals. Maybe you guys should take it out on the "responsible adult" in this scenario. Heh-heh.


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## trisstan87 (Aug 15, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> As an adult, I look back on things I did as a kid that I am not proud of. They were mistakes and I had an immature perspective. However, I am very certain that I would not have broadcast them to millions, because I actually knew they were wrong.
> 
> To err is human. To admit your guilty and repent is redeeming. These schmucks want to be known as anarchists. They want you to know. That separates them from the normal stupid kid.


You know what? I respect what you say and when you put it in that way I start to come around. You are right, for them to advertise it to millions as a viable and respectable way of life is no bueno. At the same time however, how much role did the girls have in making the film? I know they knew they were being recorded, but I wonder how much they knew was going to be put in the film. So now I sit here and I think, shame on the guy and half shame on the girls? Maybe they were naive and thought it would just go to a collection of home movies? Or maybe they really did know the film would show the not-so-good side of what they did, especially the direct deposit method... eww. I cannot know the answer to this question so I have to assume they knew that they were going to make a film and so they knew what the content would be. Because of this, I find myself becoming more against the whole thing. Somethings we do are better left unsaid.
Still a very well done and pretty entertaining film though.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

chrisncate said:


> Naa, not at all. I went there and simply voiced my opinion about this very topic (bum boater vid), and I got the usual batch of standard CA reply's (either an inside joke directed at me, or an outright insult directed at me, or some reason why they (the bum boaters) were awesome and I was too stoopid for not seeing it ). CA is _way_ too much of a clique for a public forum, those guys need a private forum.
> 
> Just go read my posts (all 28 of em) and you can see for yourself. CA is full of people who like to dish it out, but cannot take it at all. Give it back in the slightest, and they cry like little girls. I never insulted anyone first over there, and I was cool (as usual) to those who were cool to me.


I read 'em.

I've been there a while and I like those CA guys. They're not nearly as cliquey as you paint them. I've seen far worse firsthand on other forums.

You just got in over your head on the whole aggro thing..then went supernova when they called you on it. It happens. It's SA after all. No harm no foul.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

smackdaddy said:


> I read 'em.
> 
> I've been there a while and I like those CA guys. They're not nearly as cliquey as you paint them. I've seen far worse firsthand on other forums.
> 
> You just got in over your head on the whole aggro thing..then went supernova when they called you on it. It happens. It's SA after all. No harm no foul.


I guess we see it differently, but that's ok.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

chrisncate said:


> I guess we see it differently, but that's ok.


I'm afraid that's not going to work. You have to completely acquiesce to my point of view or we have to keep fighting about it for the next two years.

Oh, wait, that's the PRWG forum - my bad. Heh-heh.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

smackdaddy said:


> I'm afraid that's not going to work. You have to completely acquiesce to my point of view or we have to keep fighting about it for the next two years.
> 
> Oh, wait, that's the PRWG forum - my bad. Heh-heh.


:laugher you know not what you ask, dear squire...


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

smackdaddy said:


> I'm afraid that's not going to work. You have to completely acquiesce to my point of view or we have to keep fighting about it for the next two years.
> 
> Oh, wait, that's the PRWG forum - my bad. Heh-heh.


 I thought one of you had to leave and delete all of your posts?


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

trisstan87 said:


> .................
> 
> Now continue to sit there and talk about free thinkers...


Personal responsibility. We all are responsible for our own actions.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

bljones said:


> I thought one of you had to leave and delete all of your posts?


Zing!

Actually, I've noticed it's when you hear the phrase, "we're good friends who have each others' backs"...that it's time to put on your welding goggles. Because something's about to blow.

Everything else is just a good bar fight between mates who'll still drink together after the punches fly.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

My favourite is when somebody says "What you have to understand is..."
No, I don't. I'm not disagreeing with you because I don't understand your inane opinion/idea/concept/cause, but because you're wrong. 

or the ever popular "no offense, but..." Have you ever noticed, the word "but" tends to erase whatever came before it? "I agree with everything you said, but.... you're wrong about everything." or, "She's really cute, but..." Oh yeah, and the salutation "peace," like that fixes all the vitriol and insults in the previous four paragraphs and we're still friends, right?


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

bljones said:


> I thought one of you had to leave and delete all of your posts?


Not me, I left CA on my own accord, and all my posts are still there. Smackdaddy? You get in trouble somewhere?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Heh-heh. Dude, I get in trouble where ever I go.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

smackdaddy said:


> Heh-heh. Dude, I get in trouble where ever I go.


 :laugher


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

WGBH American Experience . Riding the Rails | PBS

Watch this...and contrast the two types of hobo experiences


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

Being a sailing hobo is much more fun!


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

Harborless said:


> Being a sailing hobo is much more fun!


I honestly believe we are in the middle of a depression. People wont acknowledge it till years afterwards...and it probably wont be as severe as the 1930s, but there is likely an entire GENERATION of young people currently between the ages of 14 and 25 that have a lifetime of reduced wages and diminished prospects for their future.

I expect to see more people taking to old derelect boats...as its gotten much too hard to ride the rails anymore.

While it seems like the kids in "Hold Fast" have other means or strong support systems, its only a matter of time before the true hobos set out.


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## bluea (Dec 20, 2010)

*Those meddling kids...*

I'm new here to SailNet, and it was amusing to read everyone's speculations about this film. I actually know the cast pretty well, so I can help fill in some of the blanks for you:

1) These "kids" aren't as young as you think.

2) I can say for sure that they're not trust-fund kids, none of them ever went to college, and the only safety net they have is each-other.

3) They saved up enough money for this trip by working the Cranberry and Beat harvests both years before heading south.

4) They really did spend almost no money outfitting that boat. Most of what they used was found or work-traded for. For instance, many people have mentioned the "new sails." That mainsail was found on a beach, and while the luff fit alright, the foot was way too long for the boom. At the first reef point, though, the foot fit.

If you'll notice in every shot of the main sail, there's one reef in. This is because that's the only way the sail fit on the boom. The problem was then that there were no additional reef points, so there was no way to reef the sail. Lisa and Kirsten did work trade in a sail loft for a few weeks in exchange for being able to use the equipment to shore up the rough parts of the sail and add two additional reef points. This was typical of how they got things done.

5) A lot of things were given to them by older sailors who didn't want them anymore. The Pestilence kids are helpful people, and they got a lot in return. The mast, interior cushions, stanchions, and a couple of the dinghies they used were given to them. When they couldn't afford something that they needed, they either made their own or made due. They had stanchions, but no life lines, so they just used some three-strand that they found. That solar panel was found on a DOT sign that had been blown off the road in a hurricane and was upside-down on the beach. The story I heard about that engine is hilarious, and in the end cost them very little. From their descriptions of the trip, it sounded like they worked from sun-up to sun-down every single day for a month in order to outfit that boat.

6) They didn't "give up." I doubt their intention was ever to live the rest of their lives on that boat. They put it together, learned a lot, had fun, and are now doing other "crazy" things. I still hear about them sailing around out there every now and then.

7) Moxie is a famous hacker, but he wasn't when this film was made. That guy has always been super talented, but only recently has he been a "professional." I suspect this is because he just never knew how to be one.

8) It actually sounds like a lot of the critics here are jealous.

hold fast and up the punks!

- tim


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

Nice!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Bluea, we can't assess whether what you say is reliable or not. Particularly being your first post ever. We have the film, which purposefully portrays a different perspective.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

> 6) They didn't "give up." I doubt their intention was ever to live the rest of their lives on that boat. They put it together, learned a lot, had fun, and are now doing other "crazy" things. I still hear about them sailing around out there every now and then.


Glad to hear they are out half assing it on other new and exciting projects, unrelated to sailing..


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Also, IIRC, the video does seem to say that the engine was not traded for but bought and given to the crew.


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## bluea (Dec 20, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> Bluea, we can't assess whether what you say is reliable or not. Particularly being your first post ever. We have the film, which purposefully portrays a different perspective.


Just trying to contribute some informed discussion. I just started reading the forums, but thought I'd chime in since I've been out with these folks before.

I don't know that what I'm saying is inconsistent with how the film portrays itself. The picture I get from the film is that they're hardcore, smart, autodidacts, who have a critique of society, are ready to endure uncomfortable situations, and know that they're capable of whatever they might dream up.

They're also pretty incredible sailors. I went out with a few of them in the Pacific Northwest, and their short space boat handling skills were really amazing, even on a larger boat under adverse conditions. Ghosted up to the dock, mooring ball, and anchor under sail absolutely perfectly every time. Every time, everywhere they went, people on the dock or surrounding boats were always in awe, sometimes even applauding. I've seen Allie eye-splice braided 12-strand without thinking twice, and there are some pretty incredible stories about how dead-on Moxie is with a sextant.

I'm not totally in their world, but really enjoyed the time I've spent with them. If you're a super affluent motor sailor with a lot of electronics and gizmos on your boat, it's true that you might not get along with them. Obviously, the film is in opposition to that type of sailing life.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

bluea said:


> Just trying to contribute some informed discussion. I just started reading the forums, but thought I'd chime in since I've been out with these folks before.
> 
> I don't know that what I'm saying is inconsistent with how the film portrays itself. The picture I get from the film is that they're hardcore, smart, autodidacts, who have a critique of society, are ready to endure uncomfortable situations, and know that they're capable of whatever they might dream up.
> 
> ...


Ok, which one are you?

Are you the chick that pooped over the lifelines?


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

To the OP, thanks for posting this. I finally had a chance to sit down and watch this. I really enjoyed it!



bluea said:


> Just trying to contribute some informed discussion. I just started reading the forums, but thought I'd chime in since I've been out with these folks before.
> 
> I don't know that what I'm saying is inconsistent with how the film portrays itself. The picture I get from the film is that they're hardcore, smart, autodidacts, who have a critique of society, are ready to endure uncomfortable situations, and know that they're capable of whatever they might dream up.
> 
> ...


I tip my hat to them.

I have a boat with a motor and still am not very familiar with it once the propeller starts going. I'm more comfortable docking and loading under sail than with the motor. Growing up we usually sailed into port so I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Splicing and a sextant are some skills I'd really like to get under my belt. I'm working on those soon enough.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

bluea said:


> ...
> 
> 8) It actually sounds like a lot of the critics here are jealous.
> 
> ...


I think that sums up most of the above objections as well as anything. It really rattles the folks who spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on their boats when someone else manages to do more sailing, have more fun, and probably develop better skills, for virtually nothing. The "kids" in question may never have a boat with a mirror finish on the topsides (or an interior that looks like it's out of a Nautor Swan brochure), but I'll bet they're a hell of a lot better sailors than most of the skippers of "harbor queens", who seem to be more concerned with how their boat looks, or whether they can get a WiFi signal, than actually sailing (they're probably more fun to hang-out with, too).


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I don't recall seeing a criticism that their boat looks bad.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Actually, what many of us objected to was their attitude of self-entitlement and the fact that they used other people's property with no compensation or permission, and damaged other people's property in the process.


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## bluea (Dec 20, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> Actually, what many of us objected to was their attitude of self-entitlement and the fact that they used other people's property with no compensation or permission, and damaged other people's property in the process.


It was clear to me that they are living in opposition to those people. From the icon of what you're sailing, I can see why you might feel threatened by that. How dare they consider themselves entitled to rub elbows with the cruising yuppies of the ocean!

People who aren't wealthy constantly have their boats towed, destroyed, or impounded. They are harassed by the coast guard, the port authority, and by harbor masters; largely at the wishes of developers who border navigable waters. To suggest that these kids are the ones with an entitlement problem, or even that they fired the first shot in this conflict, seems somewhat myopic.

- tim


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

bluea said:


> Just trying to contribute some informed discussion. I just started reading the forums, but thought I'd chime in since I've been out with these folks before.
> 
> I don't know that what I'm saying is inconsistent with how the film portrays itself. The picture I get from the film is that they're hardcore, smart, autodidacts, who have a critique of society, are ready to endure uncomfortable situations, and know that they're capable of whatever they might dream up.
> 
> ...





bluea said:


> It was clear to me that they are living in opposition to those people. From the icon of what you're sailing, I can see why you might feel threatened by that. How dare they consider themselves entitled to rub elbows with the cruising yuppies of the ocean!


+1 blue.

As I said before in this thread, I thought this was pretty cool. There are some uptight dudes around that think there is only one way to do things....their way. And, of course, they're wrong.

The key is to look like you're paying attention while they're talking, smile and slowly nod until they finish and walk back to their slip.

Then you push off, with no motor no less (which is beyond comprehension to most of them), and sail to the islands with virtually no coin while merrily crapping over the side.

What's not to like?


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

bluea said:


> It was clear to me that they are living in opposition to those people. From the icon of what you're sailing, I can see why you might feel threatened by that. How dare they consider themselves entitled to rub elbows with the cruising yuppies of the ocean!
> 
> People who aren't wealthy constantly have their boats towed, destroyed, or impounded. They are harassed by the coast guard, the port authority, and by harbor masters; largely at the wishes of developers who border navigable waters. To suggest that these kids are the ones with an entitlement problem, or even that they fired the first shot in this conflict, seems somewhat myopic.


Ok, here's where normally quiet me pipes up.

You may think SD's boat is too expensive. The snobby "yachtie" set may make your stomach turn. Great.

More importantly, it may get you really mad when the man (and the money) stick it to the little guy, or the poor guy. And that gets me mad too.

But that doesn't make committing a crime ok - and that's what these kids did when they stepped their mast. And what they implied they did if they really stole construction supplies.

Crossing the line and considering the State a criminal entity - and therefore permitting yourself to take advantage of whatever you can get away with - should set off alarm bells in your head. Hello? Are you and your angry-at-the-man self really in a state to make judgment calls about when you get to turn into a revolutionary? This is dangerous stuff. Who doesn't have self-bias?

Our society is a democratic one - an exception to the rule. That means it's a partnership between. If you want to change the system, talk to the world about what's wrong, and figure out what's needed to make it right. Rock it. But obey the law, or things break down to anarchy real quick.

Smack, I know you respect these kids mad sailing skills (if they're all they're hyped to be, and I'm prepared to believe). I wanna dock/anchor/catch moorings under sail alone. And their belief in their own ability to figure it out and get it right is the best attitude I've seen. But SD is right - the self-entitlement has got to go.

Blue, my brother once spent a year living in Cairo, as managing editor for an anti-government newsweekly. Now _there's_ a society whose government doesn't give a damn about the people. If you live in that world, which is probably 75% or more of us, grab what you can get from the government as long as you're not screwing over any of the other little fish like yourself.

If you're lucky to be in the 25% in what we think of as "normal" countries (though by the numbers, it's the rest of the world that's normal - we're really the crazy ones!) ... God help us all if we don't recognize that fact, feel grateful for it, and choose to use the legitimate tools in front of us to make a better world. The other path may seem mighty appealing but it's bad ju-ju.

For the record, I'm just a guy in Canada with a wife and three kids, an old car, a small house, and not much money. Oh, and a little wooden boat twice my age sitting on someone's lawn that I'm hoping to splash this spring on a shoestring. Wife thinks I'm crazy, kids are excited. A cruising yuppie I'm not


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

zedboy said:


> Smack, I know you respect these kids mad sailing skills (if they're all they're hyped to be, and I'm prepared to believe). I wanna dock/anchor/catch moorings under sail alone. And their belief in their own ability to figure it out and get it right is the best attitude I've seen. But SD is right - the self-entitlement has got to go.


Great post zed.

I fully agree that the criminal stuff is not right. But I think you have to be careful about determining any actual crimes from that video. For example, stepping the mast: From what I remember in the video, the broker for that boat offered its use to these guys. If true, is that a crime?

It's just that some people seem to be jumping to conclusions that might be a little hasty based on the limited info in that vid.

Bottom line, stealing and squatting ain't cool. No matter how Bohemian you want to live. That said, I've done the same kind of petty crap in my youthishness so I'm not going to go all holier-than-them.

But, to blue's point above, there are always two sides to the "self-entitlement" debate. It needs to go on both sides.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Tim-

I can see that you don't have any clue what you're talking about. Most of the sailors I know, including myself, are not what anyone would call wealthy. I'm sailing a 28' boat. If that makes me wealthy, well, you certainly have a different definition of wealth than I do.

Unlike the people in the video, I saved money to purchase my boat and equip it. I didn't scavenge or steal parts from other people, and I have never squatted on someone else's boat while working on mine. I also never used equipment, much less damaged it, without asking and getting permission from the owner.

While I admire the fact that they got out there, I think the way the did so is abhorrent. It isn't okay to steal or vandalize other people's equipment or gear. It isn't okay to use other people's boats and equipment without permission. You seem to think it is-and IMHO, that proves you don't care for anyone but yourself. That sense of entitlement is what I disagree with.

That sense of entitlement is also a big part of the reason boats get towed, destroyed or impounded. *To own a boat is a privilege-not a right. *As a boat owner, you have a responsibility to keep your boat from being a hazard to others. Most of the boats that get towed, impounded and destroyed have failed to do this is some way.

Whether you're friends with the crew of the s/v Pestilence or not, the fact that you seem to think it is okay to behave that way makes you a part of the problem.



bluea said:


> It was clear to me that they are living in opposition to those people. From the icon of what you're sailing, I can see why you might feel threatened by that. How dare they consider themselves entitled to rub elbows with the cruising yuppies of the ocean!
> 
> People who aren't wealthy constantly have their boats towed, destroyed, or impounded. They are harassed by the coast guard, the port authority, and by harbor masters; largely at the wishes of developers who border navigable waters. To suggest that these kids are the ones with an entitlement problem, or even that they fired the first shot in this conflict, seems somewhat myopic.
> 
> - tim


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## kemmer (Dec 31, 2010)

I should start out by saying that I have never sailed a day in my life. I watched the video and was inspired by it to the extent that I would really like to learn. I googled around a little bit wanting to read more about the adventure and found this thread. I don't know why I bothered reading the whole thing, and I certainly don't know why I bothered registering here to comment, but here we go!

In my opinion, the time they spend squatting on someone elses boat and the use of the davit were no-nos, but in the grand scheme of things not the worst offenses, especially since both acts were condoned by at least two different people that knew the owners. I don't think they damaged the davit, it wouldn't be hard for the owner of the yacht to find them and seek restitution. Why would they have included that in the piece if they had? If what Bluea says about this little crew is true, they may have left the place cleaner than the owners themselves do. I don't get the impression at all that they trashed the place and broke the davit as so many people have implied. This is not to say that what they did wasn't illegal or wrong, I just think people have blown this way out of proportion. Hell, if it were my boat and I found out what they were doing on it I probably would have allowed it. Before someone asks for my address, if you are in the process of doing something as impressive as sailing all over the place in a $1000 boat, I will gladly PM it to you.

As far as the stealing of plywood and other materials goes, in a society as wasteful as ours it isn't hard to find perfectly useful things that have been thrown away or discarded in some other fashion. Not only that, but if you look around there are plenty of opportunities to acquire things legitimately with little or no money if you know where to look. The way they got their sail and solar panels (again, if what Bluea said is true) is a perfect example of this. I'm sure there were plenty of people who helped them out along the way too, if I saw someone trying to tackle something like this I would help them out in any way I could.

When it comes down to it, I just think it's kinda sad that people watch 4 young people accomplish something really amazing with very little money and all they can do is focus on a little bit of plywood that probably wasn't missed and a few turds in some guys toilet. As the young kids these days are fond of saying, haters gonna hate.


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## Patient (Jan 7, 2009)

Great film and great documentation of an adventure.
I love the "Just go do it" attitude and also quite apparent desire to get out and accomplish something using nothing but bare hands, cunning and sheer wit. Was a blast to watch and I was in awe of how well filmed it was.

However, the anti-"Yuppie sailor" entitlement that Bluea seems to reiterate here should have been left ashore. Coming here and trying to defend that type of attitude when many of us have quit our jobs, sold our homes, left our families and friends behind and done precisely what this film alleges not merely as an _statement_, but as an actual lifestyle, is frankly... insulting.

The reason why you see "expensive" Bluewater boats in the profiles is because those folks are out there living that "against the grain" lifestyle right now, all over the world and some here have been doing so on their "Expensive Yuppy yachts" for decades.

Finding a derelict boat and fixing it up with what you find laying around is truly fascinating. From the bottom of my heart I wish young adults are inspired by the Film to do the same! However, as much as sailing around for a few weeks like that sounds like fun, my horizons span far past what would be possible on such vessel.

Perhaps if the film detailed them sailing a TransPac, Atlantic crossing or the Aleutians I would think differently, but I trust I am not alone in resenting being labeled as a "yuppie" because I wish and _will_ do the above in a boat that will get me there... safely.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

My name is Smackdaddy. I'm a Yuppie-Sailor and damn proud of it!

After I slowly bludgeon a freshly-caught Dorado to death with a winch handle, making it suffer as much as possible like any earth-loving hippy would, I break out the Cristal and wasabi and enjoy my sushi on my big-ass yacht...equipped with spacious heads that I can stink up any time I want without having to hang my bum over the lifelines or use other people's big-ass yachts.

I don't work for the Man. I _am_ the Man.


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

smackdaddy said:


> My name is Smackdaddy. I'm a Yuppie-Sailor and damn proud of it!
> [ ... snip! ...]
> I don't work for the Man. I _am_ the Man.


I saw those pictures of the spotlessly clean-and-proper Smacktanic on the other thread there.

You can always spot the Man because he's so into cleaning supplies and hygiene and other opiates of the masses!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

zedboy said:


> I saw those pictures of the spotlessly clean-and-proper Smacktanic on the other thread there.
> 
> You can always spot the Man because he's so into cleaning supplies and hygiene and other opiates of the masses!


Heh-heh. Well played zed.

Just remember, The Man gives those supplies to his cleaning lady to clean stuff, the masses merely use them to huff up before they go palm some crappy plywood.

Seriously, I've learned a lot about the photos on Yacthworld. If the Smacktanic can look that pimpin' in photos (despite that fact that it's a hell of a lot more beat up than it appears) - I don't believe anything I see on YW.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

You, guys, know who Moxie Marlinspike is? Here is a wikipedia article on him: 
Moxie Marlinspike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And yes, the guy is quite famous in comp. security circles and, as comes with the territory, is quite a bit of a show-off and a snob  But that's what it takes to make it in that field.
As far as a sailing adventure - looks pretty standard fare, except for narration


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## smillinjack (Aug 13, 2009)

It looked like fun to me.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

smillinjack said:


> It looked like *fun* to me.


Bingo. You nailed it jack

At the end of the day, what else is there really?


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

It's hard to fault them for megayacht squatting. It's hardly a violent crime, and they could only squat them because they were not being enjoyed by their owners!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I don't recall anyone objecting to the fun, nor the adventure, nor the thought of trying to accomplish this on the cheap. In fact, all of that and more is what makes this story fascinating.

There is pushback on this thread, only due to the parts that ruin it for some of us. They use the word anarchy, not to invoke the spirit of adventure itself, but to push back on society and its rules. There is no rule against having fun. However, there are rules against these.

5:12 "No one at a marina is going to think twice about a boat that _*mysteriously sets sail*_ from the lien sale dock some dark night"

14:03 "....feeling the immense task of what needed to be done with borrowed tools and *stolen* lumber"

You can't keep the trophy, if you cheated to get it, despite a couple of good races along the way.

Nevertheless, the issue is not necessarily what they did, it is what they promoted in the video. Based upon the rendition of our recent first time posters above, it seems it would have been fairly easy for them to have kept this a fully honest and admirable adventure. That is, if we believe it was. They either chose not to do this honestly, or chose not to tell the story that way. There is plenty more about breaking and entering, table diving, etc. I continue to object to promoting the dishonesty/anarchy.


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## smillinjack (Aug 13, 2009)

Yes it would appear that they had a little larceny in there blood. But they are minor thieves compared to out own Government, maybe a little Anarchy would be a good thing


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

these guys have more money than most of participants in this discussion. they steal for fun. If you are for it - that's fine, who's to argue. 
I don't know about your town government, but in mine when they steal (which does happen) - they end up in jail.


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## smillinjack (Aug 13, 2009)

I was not talking about town, I was referring to the big thieves, The FED's


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## omaho5 (Jun 5, 2008)

Yuo are only young once If done correctly, once should suffice.


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## JoeLena (May 14, 2012)

smackdaddy said:


> My name is Smackdaddy. I'm a Yuppie-Sailor and damn proud of it!
> 
> After I slowly bludgeon a freshly-caught Dorado to death with a winch handle, making it suffer as much as possible like any earth-loving hippy would, I break out the Cristal and wasabi and enjoy my sushi on my big-ass yacht...equipped with spacious heads that I can stink up any time I want without having to hang my bum over the lifelines or use other people's big-ass yachts.
> 
> I don't work for the Man. I _am_ the Man.


I know it's an old thread, but damn, you are my hero SD.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Cristal?
SD drinks commodity-grade champagne? Oh, the clay feet of our idols...


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