# Good Small Boat for Older, Fatter Woman to learn on



## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

Ok, I'm not that fat, but I need to lose 25 pounds, and I have no ACL in my right knee. Im also 53, and leaning over from standing bothers my back. I've just started training for some long running races and some triathlons, and added weight training and some yoga, but at this moment, i am what I am. 

I know I've asked about boats a dozen times, but I've decided I want a boat for me, me, me, me alone, one that I can get on top of my Nissan Rogue or tow easily, without thinking of my very tall husband. (Did I say I want this for me?!?) 

I want to get skilled sailing on my own, without relying on him, which I did last summer. Why can't I become skipper of my boat someday, not just the Jib person, as he calls me???  I can, but I need my own boat, a small one that I can feel what's going on, one I can take out all summer in Lake George or Schroon Lake. I love to swim, no fear of the water, but the water is COLD here most of the year, so I need a boat I can right and get my less than svelte body back in quickly. I do have a triathlon wetsuit and jacket for really cold days.

Suggestions? Jokes? All appreciated! 
Nancy 
Aka Jib


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Well the Fatty Knees Dinghy may help:

Fatty Knees Dinghy Design: A solid dinghy that's fun to sail


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

aeventyr60 said:


> Well the Fatty Knees Dinghy may help:
> 
> Fatty Knees Dinghy Design: A solid dinghy that's fun to sail


Is it for fat people? Or just those with fat knees, because my legs aren't really that fat.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

I was thinking along the lines of a boat mentioned in this thread http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...ted/195673-old-mahogany-finn.html#post2699873

Its on a trailer.

Budget?


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

How about a hobie 16 (or similar)? You would need a trailer and I would suggest the masthead float. I used to have one and I'm 6'1" 200 lbs. They are a blast to sail and the trampoline is good for a nap. Under way you can position yourself however you want to be comfortable.

I would suggest finding a place you could store the boat rigged on the trailer if at all possible. Makes going out for a just a couple of hours possible.

Trailering any sailboat from home can limit you to burning up more time towing, rigging, derigging, towing, than you spend on the water. More so if it's a small boat without a toilet or shelter.

Good luck, have fun, and just go out there and do it.


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

Budget? Cheap! About $1500 tops


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Nancyleeny said:


> Is it for fat people? Or just those with fat knees, because my legs aren't really that fat.


Mostly just for people who want to have some fun on the water. A nice pair of legs adorning any sailing craft compliments the turn of the bilge too. I'm sure you will compliment the craft you set sail on.


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

Hobie's a good idea! Will I learn traditional sailing with the two hulls? I've never sailed on one, but always liked them when I sailed a bit as a teen. 

And I have a huge barn/garage where I can store it on a trailer. 
Thanks!


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

aeventyr60 said:


> Mostly just for people who want to have some fun on the water. A nice pair of legs adorning any sailing craft compliments the turn of the bilge too. I'm sure you will compliment the craft you set sail on.


Thanks! I'm looking for any around here now. I think they are very cool!


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

Maybe a Sunfish or one of its many clones?

Rigging is as quick as dropping the mast into the slot, affixing the rudder and dropping in the dagger board -- ten minutes tops. Definitely not a roof-topper for one person, but a really light trailer-able option..


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

I think I need a bigger cockpit than the Sunfish has? I just came across the Hobie Bravo - anyone sail one?


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Did someone say Sunfish in New York?
14ft sunfish sailboat with trailer

You might want to take a look in Craigslist, seems to be many boats available.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

There are probably hundreds of abandoned / unused smaller racing class dinghies available near most sailing venues. These are usually available through 'word of mouth'. 
A Laser or Super Laser, GP-14, etc. comes to mind.

Such 'can' be car-topped with the addition of a 'roller loader' .... best/easiest use is on top of a small SUV. If you can lift one end of a small boat to shoulder height, you can use a 'roller loader'.
example: Amagansett Beach & Bicycle Co.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Nancyleeny said:


> Ok, I'm not that fat, but I need to lose 25 pounds, and I have no ACL in my right knee. Im also 53, and leaning over from standing bothers my back.


Hell you don't even begin to have an "qualifying" boat related issue. I hate hearing whining from skinny athletic kids.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Nancy, I'm married to an older, fat woman. She wants comfort, larger size, etc... Buy a big boat, don't worry about the old codger you're married to, and have yourself a ball sailing. In my opinion, it's easier sailing a larger boat, say something in the 30s category, than sailing a tiny boat where you have to duck the boom, worry about waves from jet skis, don't have a comfortable place to nap, cook or spend the evening anchored beneath the stars. You can find a reasonably quality, larger boat for a very reasonable price these days - used sailboats are a dime a dozen in this part of the world.

As for the weight, the more time you spend sailing, the pounds will fall off - at least that has been the case with nearly every cruiser I ever met, including myself. I dropped 45 pounds while cruising the east coast of the US 3 years ago, I felt great, the ladies said I looked great, but unfortunately I went back to only sailing 6 months of the year and put that weight back on with the aid of a couple Margarettas every evening. Damned they taste good, though. 

Back to the boat. From my perspective, having owned 19 boats in the 52 years since I first got married, (yes I'm still married) trailering a boat is a PITA. I trailered them to 24 feet, which resulted in several white knuckle rides when crazies pass you, then jam on their brakes to make a quick turn as if you could stop on a dime. The tolls were brutal, the gas mileage really sucked, launching and loading was a PITA, especially on busy weekends, and since the advent of jet skis, those ramps are often jammed to capacity and so are the adjacent parking lots. To me, there is NO benefit of trailering a boat other than you can take it home to work on when necessary.

The cost of keeping a 30-foot boat at a marina is not all that expensive, depending upon the marina. In my case, my 33 Morgan Out Island cost me $1,600 for the sailing season, including water and electricity, plus another $50 for membership to the swimming pool. Winter storage cost me another $600, including a free powerwash, stands, and no in and out fees. 

Think of it this way, that larger boat is essentially your summer getaway home on the water, one that you can take anyplace you would like to visit. Those tiny sailboats are just fun things to skip around the harbor on, possibly get dumped in the filthy harbor water by a careless boater's wake, and get sunburned beyond belief. Of course, there will be owners of these tiny boats that will tell you that I'm all wrong, but that's why they own the smaller boat and my wife and I enjoy the comfort of the larger boat.

Almost forgot, I sailed a 13-foot Hobie in Mexico, it was a blast for the two hours I sailed, the other guys on the boat with me thought I was insane taking a tiny boat three miles offshore in 15 MPH winds. I sailed that boat every afternoon for a week - probably the best thing I did in Cancun. I can honestly say that I would not even consider owning one, but that's probably because I'm too old for that kind of excitement anymore. You're still relatively young in comparison, and may enjoy getting wet, cold and bounced around on the water.

Good luck with whatever you decide upon,

Gary (the old codger)


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

Hi Gary, you old Codger,  
We are going to buy a bigger boat this summer, in the 35 foot range, to play around on in light winds since we're both newbies, and to use as a hotel when we go up to Burlington, where hotel prices are very high all summer and where it will be moored. This smaller boat is for me to get that feeling back from when I used to sail one summer 37 years ago. I understood what the boat was doing in relation to the wind. I haven't gotten that back from the 27 foot Solings we learned on or the bigger boats we cruise on with friends. I have a faint remembrance of the muscle memory, and without that, I am having trouble with understanding the wind again.

Also, I'm not comfortable steering the bigger boats. I KNOW it's very hard to dump a Soling, but the idea makes me nervous. 

Nancy 
The middle aged codger


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## Tenoch (Sep 28, 2012)

A couple other suggestions for you Nancy, how about a Lido 14 if you are just looking for a day sailor. For a small cabin and still easy hauling and launching maybe a West Wight Potter 19....

good luck on your adventure.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Is their any place that rents small sailboats to tourists? You could rent a lot for $1500 and perhaps make a deal with the rental place to get a good price for the whole summer when available. Then it is not your headache to maintain. 

My thoughts when you said ACL and back pain was keel boat. More comfortable. A Pearson Enson might work and their is a lot of one class was racing 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Nancy, forget about these little dinghies. They are tippy and not much fun to sail. Get a dinghy that is at least 14 feet long, wide, unsinkable, with a dagger board for simplicity, like Holder 14. You can sail it solo but also take your hubby with you for rail meat if you so chose.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Unfortunately it is very difficult to car top. For example a Sunfish is 140 lbs and its 14 feel long and bulky.. I'm a big dude and I still have trouble even with another guy helping me. My wife can' even lift one end off the ground. Not an inch. Its brutal. 

You would need a trailer. There is probably a small sailboat in the 14 foot range that would work. One of those Oday daysailer things. But it still wont be easy.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

KC has it right IMO. Some things to look for - no hard edges. A well rounded "roll" from the cockpit to the deck makes for comfort. Not too racy or there will be too much crap in the boat to rap your shins on - keep it simple.

Cats like Hobies will max out the excitement but teach a different kind of boat handling. You bear off in the puffs on a cat while you round up in a mono - for example. You need to trapeze on them for max performance as well.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

I am with Sal on this. Car top able is nice in theory, but there are very few boats that are actually light enough to reasonably lift onto the roof. The few I can think of are either whole unsutable or make such serious compromises to do so they are not very good boats. A small trailer wi a light boat is a much better option. 

Off hand there are just too many options, the market of small light dinghys is just flooded. 420's, lasers, V15's, small cats, the list just goes on and on. Find something local and cheap is probably a better option than looking for a specific boat.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

A couple of the state parks in my area rent Hobies, and a season pass goes for just $399 - that translates to a lot of Hobie sailing.

Gary


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

Ok, so I'll need a trailer. We looked at an Ensign last year, but I think it's too big for me alone. Plus, they were way more than $1500. And there was no way I was righting that boat!! Lol!


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

I agree that a car-topper is out of the question. It's an idea that was popularized in the 60's but was never really plausible. 

A 14 to 16 foot day sailor would be ideal. Like a Hobie 14 monohull. Or a Capri 14 from Catalina. 

A Hobie 16 cat has been mentioned, but that may be more mast to set up than you really want to consider. It's really an entirely different kind of sailing compared to a monohull, which in my opinion, is what you want. 

My first boat was a Grumman, aluminum 16 footer. Was easy to trailer and launch. Anything bigger will be a hassle. Anything smaller than a 14 footer (and NOT a board board if the water's cold), will be too small for what you want. I really think you want to be in that sweet spot. 

Just remember, unless you have a place where you can leave the rig up, you have to deal with raising the mast and rigging it. Alone. Don't underestimate this, or you'll never use the boat.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

What about a small gaff rigged boat? Something like this:
New Boats, Beetle Cat Boat Shop, traditional wooden boat builders, gaff rigged, one-design sailboats
From what I see no stays to mess with, just drop the mast in, connect up the boom bend sail and off you go.


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## rnixon (May 7, 2013)

You sound to have had good sailing experience, so perhaps another approach would be to take some lessons, or a certification class (where you'll get a good book too). Having an experienced instructor will allow you to get the right answers to your questions, rather than having to figure it out yourself. You may even learn some things to compliment your husband's knowledge.

If you have a US Sailing / ASA certification, you can't easily be classified as the jib person. Whatever you decide, good luck and I hope that you have a blast.

Roger


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

A versatile boat that fits your theme is the:
Portland Pudgy Sailing Dinghy - Portland Pudgy Safety Dinghy


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

Captainmeme said:


> What about a small gaff rigged boat? Something like this:
> New Boats, Beetle Cat Boat Shop, traditional wooden boat builders, gaff rigged, one-design sailboats
> From what I see no stays to mess with, just drop the mast in, connect up the boom bend sail and off you go.


That is a sweet boat!!


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

rnixon said:


> You sound to have had good sailing experience, so perhaps another approach would be to take some lessons, or a certification class (where you'll get a good book too). Having an experienced instructor will allow you to get the right answers to your questions, rather than having to figure it out yourself. You may even learn some things to compliment your husband's knowledge.
> 
> If you have a US Sailing / ASA certification, you can't easily be classified as the jib person. Whatever you decide, good luck and I hope that you have a blast.
> 
> Roger


Hi Roger,
We took the first ASA class last summer, on Solings, and while I did steer and can be the helmsman for the certification, I'm not really comfortable yet. I was thinking of doing a dinghy class this summer at the same school where we belong.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Find out if the school has or knows or a rental program.


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## IStream (Dec 15, 2013)

Potter 15?


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

I mentioned the Hobie 16 earlier. If you can sail a hobie you can sail anything, they are a bit different, but once you pass the learning curve adapting from one to another is easy. Confidence is what you really need.

I'm gonna throw out another idea, take all that money you would throw into a daysailer (and don't forget the add-ons, incidentals, maintenance, etc, etc, etc.) and put it into more sailing classes.

Maybe even think about a woman only class for a week in someplace with blue water and cheap rum. There are lot's of options you might consider that don't include the hubby. Upgrade your ASA with a charter class or even a night sailing class. Even if you have to drive and make a weekend of it. I could go on, but you get the idea.


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## sprega (Jun 25, 2002)

A Potter 14 or 15 would be a fine boat for you if you can find one in your budget. Also a SanFrancisco Pelican would be a great boat.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

The whole concept of car topping has been made obsolete by the move to smaller cars. When the typical family had a 19' long station wagon, putting a 14' boat on top was a reasonable proposition.

The only current vehicles that are long enough are things like Suburbans and they are way too tall to get anything on top.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

The Adventuress out of Seattle sails up the coast with all woman trainees .Maybe that would be better than a car topper Going aloft is optional..


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## brob2 (Apr 12, 2015)

Hello older, fatter, woman. Triathlons are a blast, and a great way to stay/ get in shape. Just don't let it take over your life- all things in moderation. A lot of folks into tri's let it consume them. Kind of like sailing. 

A couple of other thoughts for sailing are trailer-able boats like Wayfarers, Flying Juniors, or even Paceship/ O'Day 19s and the like. They are fun to sail, great learning boats, and with a lot of them around they are easy to get parts for and often well-priced. That said a Hobie will be more exhilarating when it's honking. 

My father started in small boats and after a lifetime of sailing keelboats went back to a 19' ft trailerable at the cottage in his last years. I will probably do the same thing when I get there too. 

I'm 53 in a couple of weeks but still do 2 or 3 sprint tris each summer and love it. The Olympic distance days are over but I'm OK with that. More cookies and stuff still available when I finish.


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

Hi,
I'd love to go take a women's class! Great idea! I wonder if there is anything like the Adventuress on the east coast?

I'm writing all of these boats down. Thank you, all! This is the best site - everyone is always so helpful and very kind! 

Brob2, I did an Olympic distance tri about 7 years ago - toughest thing I ever did. And I didn't lose a pound in all that training! Arghhhhhhh!!!!!! Now, I stick to sprints, also. I really don't like the bike part of the race. 

Thanks again!
Nancy


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

There's an inexpensive JY15 near me, but I read a few reviews and i think it's too much boat for me right now. Thoughts?


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Nancyleeny said:


> Hi,
> I'd love to go take a women's class! Great idea! I wonder if there is anything like the Adventuress on the east coast?
> 
> Nancy


http://www.womanship.com/pdf/CourseCalendar.pdf

I'm sure there are others, google is your friend.

There is also the option of calling ASA schools and asking them to give you the option of advanced classes with other women as they come along. I'm pretty sure they would be willing to try to accommodate you.


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## CapnSantiago (Jul 17, 2007)

Surprised no one has mentioned the Flying Scot. It's tag line is "stable and safe", but also is well mannered and reacts like a sailboat should.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

One other advantage of renting, is that it can give you the opportunity try out lots of different boats.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I know the sailing club in Plattsburgh (those who don't know it is about 1.5 hours north) has a fleet of small boats for classes. Find a class like that might help.. give you an idea, without buying one..

I've only skimmed the posts so if I missed something.. sorry

For your knee you might consider a boat with an alternative keel.

I had a Chrysler LoneStar 13 that had 'bilge keels' which was great for opening up the cockpit area... no stepping over a trunk in the middle of the boat and easier to move around in the boat (I know there is a LS 16 that needs work in the Onieda area used boats) and to that notion, I wonder if a catamaran would work... (these need trailers-- there is two for sale on craigs 2 Hobie Cat 16's : Two catamaran sailboats w/trailers, etc.)... if it is good enough for the America's Cup... ;-)


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## vonnegute (May 12, 2013)

Nancy,

Just want to let you know how much I like your quote about net worth. Dreams minus doubts equals net worth. It is so apropos for our gigantic plunge into boat ownership!


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

vonnegute said:


> Nancy,
> 
> Just want to let you know how much I like your quote about net worth. Dreams minus doubts equals net worth. It is so apropos for our gigantic plunge into boat ownership!


Vonnegute, I don't think I said that! But I like it, too!


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

titustiger27 said:


> I know the sailing club in Plattsburgh (those who don't know it is about 1.5 hours north) has a fleet of small boats for classes. Find a class like that might help.. give you an idea, without buying one..
> 
> I've only skimmed the posts so if I missed something.. sorry
> 
> ...


I am pretty close to Plattsburgh, so thanks! And thank you for the links - they have some great boats! 
Nancy


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Hi Nancy. Nice to see you still here at sailnut.

A few rambling thoughts in no particular order.

I once moved a Sunfish on the top of my Plymouth Valiant back in the 1980's. I was younger then and would not attempt it now. A Sunfish hull is heavy even without water inside it ;-). What the Sunfish does have going for it though is it is darn easy for one adult to single hand one in winds < ~20 knots. It would really give you that visceral feel of the feedback of all the elements of the boat under sail. At 56 I still really get a thrill from getting a Sunfish up on a plane on a broad reach in around 15 knots of wind. What a blast! You will get wet sailing a Sunfish though.

A step up might be a Laser which can also be solo sailed but would likely have many more sail controls. I believe that the Laser is still one of the olympic class racing boats, so they can be "technical". Still a wet boat.

Boats like the Flying Scot and Lightning (both 19') are routinely raced with a crew of 3 and which kinda means it they are not easy boats to sail solo. They also capsize often enough when raced and would not be easy for 1 person to right or bail once righted. 

Many smaller boats like the Holder 14' and similar models with sloop rig would also make good choices, in my humble opinion (IMHO). 

I have never seen an Ensign capsize (a few more Ensigns changed hands this year at my club;-)).

For simplicity, cheapness, ease of setup, sense of the forces of sailing, my money is on the Sunfish, or one of its many clones (Zuma comes to mind). Ideally it could be kept at the shore of your lake of choice so you could just set it up and go. 

;-)


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Nancyleeny said:


> I am pretty close to Plattsburgh, so thanks! And thank you for the links - they have some great boats!
> Nancy


If you think about going to the Onieda place... they will really deal. I think on the LS16, when I was thinking about it, the owner knocked like $500 off right away


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I have a general question.. related to several suggestions.

How does the lack of an ACL affect you?

Many of the smaller boats (Laser for example) kind of require you to stick your foot under the hiking strap in the boat and lean back. Seems like that might put a bit of stress on the knee.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

vonnegute said:


> Nancy,
> 
> Just want to let you know how much I like your quote about net worth. Dreams minus doubts equals net worth. It is so apropos for our gigantic plunge into boat ownership!


That's mine. Not sure where I lifted it from....


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

I like Caleb's idea of just keeping a Sunfish on a beach. Every time I sail my Sunfish I always remark what a great boat it is. Not comfortable but it sails like a champ.


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

titustiger27 said:


> I have a general question.. related to several suggestions.
> 
> How does the lack of an ACL affect you?
> 
> Many of the smaller boats (Laser for example) kind of require you to stick your foot under the hiking strap in the boat and lean back. Seems like that might put a bit of stress on the knee.


Hi,
I can run, swim, bike with no ACL - it's the lateral movements that make my knee go out. Like if I'm dancing Zumba and go sideways, I just fall. Having said that, a knee brace helps a lot. I think hiking would be fine.


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

aeventyr60 said:


> That's mine. Not sure where I lifted it from....


Well, it's good!


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

If this boat is for "you, you, you", my only advice is to avoid a boat that you have to hoist up onto your car top, by yourself (unless it's a kayak). Rent, join a club, or purchase a small, trailerable boat.

Some good boats have been suggested (Hobie, Flying Scot, Albacore, 420). Down here, we have a boat indigenous to the Chesapeake, called the "Chesapeake 20". It was designed by one of the Hartge family back in the teens or twenties. Even though it's an old design, it's still quick and fun and sails well in light air.


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## MarkCK (Jan 4, 2009)

I have a Bauer 12. It is a great boat to learn on. It is kind of a hybrid between a cat boat and a sloop. Although I think most people like to think of it as a cat boat just because of its salty good looks. It has a jib. Gaff rig is an option but most of them just have fully battened mainsails. It is very wide for its size so it doesn't heel very much. The one thing that does make it more of a catboat than a sloop is how forgiving it is. When things get out of control on a catboat it is almost better to do nothing and then boat almost self corrects itself. With a sloop you ease the sheets, head into the wind, adjust the rudder or do any number of things to make it sail correctly. With a Bauer you just kind of hang out, do nothing and everything seems to correct itself. 

And it is easily trailerable, the mast breaks down into 2 pieces and setting it up is very simple. There is also a 8 ft and a 10 ft version if you want a smaller one. 

The only downside is that you don't expect blistering performance out of it.


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## jwing (Jun 20, 2013)

Nancy - Good move to consider trailerable boats. Now you have dozens and dozens of options - too many to learn about. I recommend that you develop a framework of budget and desired features rather than focus on particular models. That way, you can be prepared to buy a boat that comes available close to you, even if you hadn't considered that model before.

Here are some considerations I haven;t seen on this thread:

Sunfish, Laser, Coronado15 and similar boats are all good for your intended purpose of getting a better feel for sailing. However, now that I'm middle-aged, I find them uncomfortable. They are sit-on-top rather than sit-in. That means that there is no support for your back. For me, that's a deal killer.

Since your plan is to purchase a bigger boat, presumably one with two sails, consider limiting you small boat choice to a sloop. You can start solo sailing with just the mainsail, and latter add the jib. You will learn alot about sail trim using this graduated method. You can learn it on a 35'er, too, but it will be far more apparent on a small, light boat.

Based on those two criteria, there are many, many boats that can be purchased for less than $1000. Since you don't have racing as a objective, you can get a boat with old sails.

If you are willing to spend up to $1500, keep $1500 in cash, ready to go at a moment's notice. Do a daily Searchtempest.com search for sailboats within the area you are willing to drive. Good deals on good small sailboats are abundant but very short-lived. You must be prepared to act quickly.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

BubbleheadMd said:


> If this boat is for "you, you, you", my only advice is to avoid a boat that you have to hoist up onto your car top, by yourself (unless it's a kayak). Rent, join a club, or purchase a small, trailerable boat.
> 
> Some good boats have been suggested (Hobie, Flying Scot, Albacore, 420). Down here, we have a boat indigenous to the Chesapeake, called the "Chesapeake 20". It was designed by one of the Hartge family back in the teens or twenties. Even though it's an old design, it's still quick and fun and sails well in light air.


Last summer I saw a guy pulling a sailboat off his roof and put it in the water at a kayak launch. It was really light weight, and made of Styrofoam like an oversize cooler. He said he has 4 sailboats and that one was his favorite because he can sail it anyplace and it is easy to get in and out of the water. Kind of cool, but I don't know what kind it was, but seemed to have put up with a lot of abuse over the years. I had a friend who won a similar boat (may have been the same kind as it is 40 or so years later) from Kool cigarettes. Had a Kool on the sail. We thought it was kind of "kool" like having candy cigarettes as a kid.

Apparently they are still made Super Snark is 50 pounds. $1059 including sail. 
Sailboats To Go » Super Snark Sailboat


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Nancyleeny said:


> ...
> 
> I know I've asked about boats a dozen times, but I've decided I want a boat for me, me, me, me alone, one that I can get on top of my Nissan Rogue or tow easily, without thinking of my very tall husband. (Did I say I want this for me?!?)
> 
> ...


That's awesome.

A woman in my marina used to keep a Catalina Capri in a slip. Every weekend I'd watch her husband drop her and one kid off and she'd head off into the bay.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

*thoughts at large (pun kind of intended)*

It is good to seek out advice... but on the down side, when I tell you what I think you should get or what you will like.. the key is 'I *Think*' (and you can assume this whole post is an opinion

I'm reading a book: "How to Buy the Best Sailboat," by Chuck Gustafson. Should have read it long before buying my third boat. I recommend it, just because he has things to think about. [I can give it to you when I am done, or like me you can find it on half.com for pretty cheap]

In the first 40 pages he addresses a lot of things you have started on.. 1) personal assessment (how will you use the boat, financial considerations, etc.). 2) alternative ways to accessing a boat (renting/chartering, partnership, building, club (with boats) crewing). These have been brought up. You might say: "I want my boat," but one of my biggest weaknesses is I am self-taught, so no one (on their boat) showed me many of the things I learned the hard way, or have yet to learn the hard way.

I am sure you could make up some kind of mathematical formula for buying a boat.

*Cost* divided *use* times *strength* divided by *weight*... but I can't think of an easy way to do that.

I do think there are solutions to many problems, but solutions also have problems. sounds like trailering is the way to go for you, but you have to make sure your vehicle can tow a boat (my car is at the limit of the size of boat I tow, but I only have to tow it 15 miles). I'm okay at backing the trailer to the dock, but I am also glad I sail mostly on days when there are not a lot of people laughing at me at the launch.

One thing I would suggest is do a couple visualizations. First -- when you picture yourself sailing this August what does it look like? My guess you are not in 30ft sailboat... but I am not sure it is in a eight ft dinghy either... but maybe. Because of your sports background maybe you would like a racing dinghy that you have a trapeze to hang over the side with and don't mind that you flop into the water a few times every month. (I don't like to go into the water.)

Then picture yourself in a sailboat in five years... have you moved up to that 30 ft boat or do you just see yourself in a really nice, brand new racing dinghy?

One of the things I wish I did more of and think people should do... when you get this info in your head, put it down on a piece of paper. *A check list.* Add to this list as you shop. Keep the list handy as you look... and follow it because you made it for a reason.

Here is a learn the hard way or easy way thing. Your $1,500 boat probably needs a trailer, so you really are buying a $1,200 boat and a $300 trailer (most smaller boats do come with a trailer). That is probably better than buying a $300 boat (needing lots of work) and a brand new $1,200 trailer with led lights, galvanized steel, rollers and so on.

If on your list the most important thing is a boat, you don't need to put lots of money into the trailer... a good trailer is worth a lot, but you aren't getting into sailing for the trailer and so you can spend a couple months learning how to repair fiberglass (or maybe you are).










_Here is something on *my *list, likely not on a lot of people. I like to buy boats that don't have a name, because I really like naming my boat. Not a complete deal breaker, but a (silly) factor for me._

edit: here is a boat on Craigs: http://burlington.craigslist.org/boa/4973943681.html


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## zzrider (Jun 23, 2011)

It is possible to get out on the water in a decent boat for your $1500 target. Just last summer I picked up an early 80's 17' O'Day Daysailer II for $1000 even, including a very decent trailer that needed no work. The boat itself was also ready to sail. Everything was original, which meant very worn sails, but everything was intact and everything worked, even those old sails.

If you are willing to trailer a boat, a Daysailer is hard to beat for your stated purpose. They race with 2 but many people, myself included, singlehand them easily. It is a heavy boat with a 6.25' beam, very stable and not at all prone to easy capsize. Which is good, because I am somewhat doubtful of my ability to right it should I happen to dump it. 

Granted, with a boat this age and at this price point, there are likely going to be things you want or need to spend a bit of money on. I immediately replaced all the standing rigging with upgraded 1X19 wire stays with real turnbuckles. I replaced the stock jibsheet blocks & cleats with single blocks on the jibsheet cars and new swiveling cam cleats mounted on the centerboard trunk so I can better handle the jib from the windward side of the boat.

It is quite easy to rig alone. With a hinged mast tabernacle, I can step the mast with ease using the jib halyard. I installed my own homemade hiking straps in the cockpit because being able to get your weight out over the rail helps alot with stability. Plus I just think hiking is fun and it's a great ab workout!


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

titustiger27 said:


> *thoughts at large (pun kind of intended)*
> 
> It is good to seek out advice... but on the down side, when I tell you what I think you should get or what you will like.. the key is 'I *Think*' (and you can assume this whole post is an opinion
> 
> ...


Thank you for the good advice and the link. I think that's the kind of boat I would like.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Nancyleeny said:


> Thank you for the good advice and the link. I think that's the kind of boat I would like.


That looks good, especially for the price.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Nancyleeny said:


> Thank you for the good advice and the link. I think that's the kind of boat I would like.





miatapaul said:


> That looks good, especially for the price.


I don't expect the boat to be around for long... as it I think it is priced to sell

add to that, I just searched the boat and it looks like there are a few active owners to ask questions of

http://www.sailmfg.com/bandit15/bandit15_main.htm


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

I emailed the owner this morning and I'm waiting to hear back.
Nancy


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Nancyleeny said:


> I emailed the owner this morning and I'm waiting to hear back.
> Nancy


Good luck, but make sure it isn't more work than you are ready for.... I think he wrote it is in 'fair condition'

Kind of cold, but you --- as the consumer --- can ask for a test drive.

some links
MFG Boats - Glassics Online
BANDIT 15 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
SailMFG - Preserving the Legacy of SailMFG Sailboats


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## jwing (Jun 20, 2013)

If the Bandit doesn't work out, here's a list of a few other possibilities:

Day Sailor Sailboat Guide - ShortyPen.com


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

OK, how did the fatter boat, small lady make out from all this advice? Inquiring minds want to know! 

Of course, if I were 30 years younger, single, and somewhat wealthy, you wouldn't have to worry about purchasing a small boat to hone your sailing skills - you could just sail down to the Florida Keys with a dirty old man who cooks great meals aboard, and has a fully stocked bar. OH YEAH!

All the best, Nancy,

Gary


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

travlineasy said:


> OK, how did the fatter boat, small lady make out from all this advice? Inquiring minds want to know!
> 
> Of course, if I were 30 years younger, single, and somewhat wealthy, you wouldn't have to worry about purchasing a small boat to hone your sailing skills - you could just sail down to the Florida Keys with a dirty old man who cooks great meals aboard, and has a fully stocked bar. OH YEAH!
> 
> ...


lots of 'ifs' there 

Plus she isn't looking for a crew, just wants to be the captain


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

travlineasy said:


> OK, how did the fatter boat, small lady make out from all this advice? Inquiring minds want to know!
> 
> Of course, if I were 30 years younger, single, and somewhat wealthy, you wouldn't have to worry about purchasing a small boat to hone your sailing skills - you could just sail down to the Florida Keys with a dirty old man who cooks great meals aboard, and has a fully stocked bar. OH YEAH!
> 
> ...


Hi Gary,
I am looking actively for a boat still. I don't know if there would be room on your boat for my husband, too! He's tall! :laugher

Enjoy!
Nancy


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Did you hear back about the Bandit?


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

titustiger27 said:


> Did you hear back about the Bandit?


Hi,
I heard back and they have the boat at their camp, which they won't open until mid-May. If I don't find something by then, I'll go see it.
Thanks!
Nancy


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Nancyleeny said:


> Hi,
> I heard back and they have the boat at their camp, which they won't open until mid-May. If I don't find something by then, I'll go see it.
> Thanks!
> Nancy


odd.. why list it until a week or so before you are going to the camp... unless they were thinking people would consider buying it without seeing.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

do you get over to Vermont much?

There is a place that has some used sailboats, though they aren't listed on their web page
Home - SMALL BOAT EXCHANGE

Edit: what books are you reading?


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Nancyleeny said:


> Hi Gary,
> I am looking actively for a boat still. I don't know if there would be room on your boat for my husband, too! He's tall! :laugher
> 
> Enjoy!
> Nancy


Plenty of room on the Morgan - the headroom in the cabin is close to 7 feet throughout. Hope he likes fillet mignon and Margarettas, though.  Just kiddin!

Good luck on your search,

Gary


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## sidney777 (Jul 14, 2001)

"Slipper" is a lovely boat, @17 ft or a Victoria 18, just good looking. Cape Dory Typhoon 19 ft full kdel. West wight potter 15ft or 19. Some may be priced high but keep looking !!


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

I love most of these suggestions... but my personal experience would say avoid centerboard boats like the plague.

The Lido 14, Capri 142, Capri 165, Precision185, all make keel versions (usually used for sailing school training fleets)... these would be my first choice for trailerable dinghys... I am betting they'd be at or close to your budget, launching from trailer is slightly more difficult, however, the stability will be infinitely better.

Loss of ACL is common amongst us horseback riders.. so I am quite familiar. My wife had hers replaced about 3 years ago, she was 46 at the time. She's gotten nearly 95% of her range of motion back... and worked hard to get there.. took about 6 months. She says now that it was definitely worth it. Gotta follow doctors orders to the letter, it helps. We used the off season for her to have it done.. scheduled for Nov, she was on a horse by March. She said she was back to like new by the 12 months. Blew her ACL out getting hit with a wave at the beach (Doc said that she was already mostly there, the wave was the proverbial straw).

Anyway good luck on the boat.

Interesting other choices people offerred were the typhoon, and victoria 18... neat boats. I'd add the Compac 16 to that list.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

IStream said:


> Potter 15?


Beat me to it. I got mine for $1000. It needed work but for $2-3000 you could get a nice one with trailer. You could rig it by yourself in 15 minutes. It will sail 2 people but also has a two person tent built in.


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

titustiger27 said:


> do you get over to Vermont much?
> 
> There is a place that has some used sailboats, though they aren't listed on their web page
> Home - SMALL BOAT EXCHANGE
> ...


Hi,
We sail over at Colchester, so I'll check out that list. Thank you!
I just finished the Fastnet book, and I'm retreading my ASA 101 book. Also, I'm watching the volvo races, amazed at how they seek out bad weather with wind, instead of sailing around it! 
Nancy


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

This is local - seems like what I'm looking for, but I don't remember seeing it mentioned.

Sailboat (Pintail)


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Nancyleeny said:


> Hi,
> We sail over at Colchester, so I'll check out that list. Thank you!
> I just finished the Fastnet book, and I'm retreading my ASA 101 book. Also, I'm watching the volvo races, amazed at how they seek out bad weather with wind, instead of sailing around it!
> Nancy





Nancyleeny said:


> This is local - seems like what I'm looking for, but I don't remember seeing it mentioned.
> 
> Sailboat (Pintail)


Good

seems like the Bandit and the Pintail are similar. I have a bias against people who don't or can't post a picture of their boat and substitute another picture (especially when they don't even list the year of the boat).

Which doesn't mean I wouldn't investigate.

One of the good things about having two similar (if not the same) boats for sale is that even if you want the most expensive one, you can say: "I can get the same boat for $900 cheaper, how about if I offer you 900"

My current boat that worked. Although I got them to knock about $300 off.. I think the $900 Widgeon O'day was a better boat.. In the end I liked the boat I got (and the better trailer). Also, and I shouldn't let this happen. The seller of the other boat was kind of snippy and I went with the friendly seller.

I try to stay away from the Fastnet type books --- I want to read about smooth sailing...


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

Shnool, I lost my ACL about 6 years ago when my niece hit me skiing on a diamond trail where we never should have taken her! I've been so afraid to get it fixed, and havent yet since I can still run, bike and swim, but I wear a brace when I'm on a sailboat. I should get it fixed,I know.

Lots of great boats, I looked up most. Now to find one close, in my budget!


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Get it fixed - it's a relatively quick repair and recovery.

Gary


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## desert rat (Feb 14, 2013)

Nancy years ago a very good orthopedic surgeon informed me that my ALC was gone and that there really wasn't anything that really could be done. Occasionally I get a twinge, or feel my weight shifting wrong causing my guts to knot up picturing my leg bending backwards, but it only twinges occasionally and it works.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I love forums

Original poster is looking for a boat and everyone tells her what boat they like, for the reasons they like for themselves... then we move on to telling her to get knee surgery

Don't take offense... it's what happens in forums... but in the end I hope Nancy appreciates we are trying to help

;-)


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Who knew there was such interest in older fatter women?? LOL 

That fact alone should make it worth it.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I go for younger women
I've lived with several a while
Though I ran em away they'd come back someday
Sure could manage a smile
Just takes a while
Just takes a while

(Jimmy Buffett - A Pirate Looks At 40)

Cheers,

Gary


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

brob2 said:


> Hello older, fatter, woman. Triathlons are a blast, and a great way to stay/ get in shape. Just don't let it take over your life- all things in moderation. A lot of folks into tri's let it consume them. Kind of like sailing.
> 
> A couple of other thoughts for sailing are trailer-able boats like Wayfarers, Flying Juniors, or even Paceship/ O'Day 19s and the like. They are fun to sail, great learning boats, and with a lot of them around they are easy to get parts for and often well-priced. That said a Hobie will be more exhilarating when it's honking.
> 
> ...


Suggesting triathlons as a way to get fit is a lot like suggesting a mission to Mars as a way to get into electronics.


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## Sunphish (Nov 23, 2014)

Catalina Expo 14.2 or Catalina Expo 12.5 depending on your desire to remain dry--ish.


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

I don't take any offense at all! You are all very helpful and very funny - I just love a good sense of humor.

So I want to see the Pintail - its interior was in rough shape. The wooden seats/benches need to be sanded and varnished. It needs a good cleaning and whatever you do to the outside. The sails look good - no holes, or weak areas I could see, but I think they are original. This gentleman bought the boat ten years ago and it has sat in his garage since then. The trailer looks good.

He said he had put $1395 but would take $1300 and the trailer was included, kept saying it was free. I told him I'd think about it. I like the boat - I think it's the type that would be good for me to learn more on, without getting dunked and wet all of the time. Here's a couple of pictures on Flickr.


__
https://flic.kr/p/16996059139


__
https://flic.kr/p/16994487758


__
https://flic.kr/p/16562067353


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Nancyleeny said:


> I don't take any offense at all! You are all very helpful and very funny - I just love a good sense of humor.
> 
> So I want to see the Pintail - its interior was in rough shape. The wooden seats/benches need to be sanded and varnished. It needs a good cleaning and whatever you do to the outside. The sails look good - no holes, or weak areas I could see, but I think they are original. This gentleman bought the boat ten years ago and it has sat in his garage since then. The trailer looks good.
> 
> ...


*the opinions are my un-educated ones*

I like the first picture.. that is in my mind the shape of a boat.. or how I think they should be.

Good news it was registered until 2013 pr 1913?, so there is a chance there is a title.. it costs a bit to (more time than money) get a boat without a title registered.

You don't need to registered a boat (Under 20 ft I think, but definately 15 ft) in NYS if you don't use a motor

The other two pictures -- not only is it dirty.. that wood is in bad shape, not sand it up and varnish bad, but looks like it needs to be replaced.

Fiberglass seems okay --- did he tell you what year it is? if it is older than 1980.. another reason not to be above $1,300

Even assuming the Sails are good or new -- I am thinking that is a boat in the same range of the Bandit.

_Personally I think, unless it was kept inside, a boat sitting for 10 years unused isn't always a good thing_


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

Thank you, Titustiger. Yes, the boards were bad, one was peeling. I kind of know this guy I found out - I feel badly going too low. Yikes! I'm not good at bargaining!


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Nancyleeny said:


> Thank you, Titustiger. Yes, the boards were bad, one was peeling. I kind of know this guy I found out - I feel badly going too low. Yikes! I'm not good at bargaining!


And...

do you like the boat.. as long as you like it.. paying what you pay is okay.

I hear you on bargaining... but you have to think.. if the boat is worth $900, should you subsidize him because he doesn't know..

What about getting someone else to look at it... and let them say to the guy that it isn't worth $1,300?

edit: here is a $1,300 Pintail

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/44427

include a motor and a few new things.. better shape

Edit again: other Pintails
http://www.sailingtexas.com/cboats99pintail.html


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

What is your search area...

This Designer's Choice 15 ($950) is in Liverpool

http://boats.smartcarguide.com/listing/47670163/


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

titustiger27 said:


> What is your search area...
> 
> This Designer's Choice 15 ($950) is in Liverpool
> 
> http://boats.smartcarguide.com/listing/47670163/


Thanks for this! Going by the links you gave me, the boat I looked at is about 400 to 500 overpriced, minimum. Thank you!

I'm near Lake George, NY,
Nancy


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm an older fatter woman selling a boat.. I even offer lessons in sailing basics to the new owner


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Nancyleeny said:


> Thanks for this! Going by the links you gave me, the boat I looked at is about 400 to 500 overpriced, minimum. Thank you!
> 
> I'm near Lake George, NY,
> Nancy


yes and no... Location means something too.. Pintails in this area might be more expensive than in other areas or than Bandits..

But I would say Yes it is a bit more than it should be...

The problem is people who find this out don't always want to lower the price. I looked at a bicycle that (well I think they guy was less than honest) told me it was five years old and was asking the price of a bike five years old.. when I used the internet to show him he lowered his price but was kind of mad...

edit: here is an example (http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/boa/4973601401.html) this LS 13 is listed for $400 more than the one I bought in 1985, but if I didn't have a boat I might pay the higher amount --- for the sentimental reasons....


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

deniseO30 said:


> I'm an older fatter woman selling a boat.. I even offer lessons in sailing basics to the new owner


this link
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/boa/4914329559.html

needs to be renewed...
*
Edit: giving the lessons are priceless*


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

titustiger27 said:


> this link
> http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/boa/4914329559.html
> 
> needs to be renewed...
> ...


eh? I just reposted it last night! .... arrrg.. go back a see what I did wrong I guess
The "renew" kicked them off. 
http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/4982993307.html
thanks Tiger!


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

deniseO30 said:


> eh? I just reposted it last night! .... arrrg.. go back a see what I did wrong I guess
> The "renew" kicked them off.
> 30 foot fin keel
> thanks Tiger!


The other ad was from Philly, this one is from Annapolis...

btw, I think that boat is bigger than Nancy is looking for


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

deniseO30 said:


> I'm an older fatter woman selling a boat.. I even offer lessons in sailing basics to the new owner


What kind of boat? My budget is low.

Never mind - I saw it! Yes, I'm looking for a smaller dinghy!


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

smaller is not really easier to learn on, just my opinion Nancy. I had a hunter 23 before my O30 and it was way way more difficult then my larger boat. 

Tiger yes, I have 2 ads up one where I live and the one I posted.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

deniseO30 said:


> smaller is not really easier to learn on, just my opinion Nancy. I had a hunter 23 before my O30 and it was way way more difficult then my larger boat.
> 
> Tiger yes, I have 2 ads up one where I live and the one I posted.


in your sig line (http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/boa/4914329559.html) doesn't work.. it says "This posting has been deleted by its author." when you click on it.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

titustiger27 said:


> in your sig line (http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/boa/4914329559.html) doesn't work.. it says "This posting has been deleted by its author." when you click on it.


apparently numbers change on them

Oday30, 1982 , cradle, dingy, Bristol PA

Here's the other
30 foot fin keel

I just double checked them both and they both work. I hope!


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## Deadhead (Jan 3, 2009)

I used to sail a DS-16 on Lake George. It was a nice boat for the Lake and it was only $500. Here is another for sale.

http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=297650002


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Deadhead said:


> I used to sail a DS-16 on Lake George. It was a nice boat for the Lake and it was only $500. Here is another for sale.
> 
> http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=297650002


Looks nice, never get why people don't post pictures

It's a pretty long drive to Binghamton from Lake George.. of course I am not doing the driving. (I always like to find a couple boats in an area -- if it requires a drive)

from Sailboat Data
DS-16 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Personally, I like the Pintail the best
Sailboat (Pintail)
but more at $900 (maybe a little more if the sails are _brand_ new)... I think if you replace the boards and clean it up it might be worth $1,400, but that will be because someone does $400+ worth of sweat equity ... and it appears that rudder needs some work.

_
Can you tell I just might like shopping for a boat a tad more than sailing one ;-) _


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

Wow, this is getting complicated, so let me add more useless yak to the discussion. Looking forward to that 35 foot cruiser, you will want a tender, one that can be towed or stored on deck. So maybe an outright sailing dinghy would serve both purposes without having to sell your learning boat and then buy a dinghy. 
Dinghy's are great for learning how to tack and gybe, keep the boat on its keel and get to a destination, but at 14 plus feet you've really gone beyond a tender for your 35foot cruiser. 
I started with an O'Day Sprite, all of 10 feet and sailed it on Barnegat Bay, Egg Harbor and the rivers around Ft Monmouth NJ. I could rig it single handed, but needed help getting onto the trailer when there was not a launch ramp. Had it not been the Mothership, I would have made a great tender to a 35' sailboat.
I'm sure there must be lots of 8 - 10 foot dinghy's with sail kits for less than $1500 in your commuting area. 
Happy sails,
John


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

titustiger27 said:


> Personally, I like the Pintail the best
> Sailboat (Pintail)
> but more at $900 (maybe a little more if the sails are _brand_ new)... I think if you replace the boards and clean it up it might be worth $1,400, but that will be because someone does $400+ worth of sweat equity ... and it appears that rudder needs some work.
> 
> ...


Titus,
I love shopping too! 
Nancy


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Just go and buy this right now -

???8' ELI Sailing or Rowing Dinghy with Sail, Mast Boom, etc

I'd get it tomorrow if I didn't have the sunfish in my garage already.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

one in Lake Placid
Small 4 person starter sail boat

Jester sailboat (listed as a 14' but I think it might be 12')

Listed at $799, but they guy is moving so maybe $600

edit: after doing some searching, a boat this rare ... not sure what to think about it.


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

titustiger27 said:


> one in Lake Placid
> Small 4 person starter sail boat
> 
> Jester sailboat (listed as a 14' but I think it might be 12')
> ...


Thanks!! I just got home, so I will call in the AM. 
Best,
Nancy


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

Sal Paradise said:


> Just go and buy this right now -
> 
> ???8' ELI Sailing or Rowing Dinghy with Sail, Mast Boom, etc
> 
> I'd get it tomorrow if I didn't have the sunfish in my garage already.


That's a great boat!! It's kind of far from me, though, and I don't have a trailer.


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

titustiger27 said:


> one in Lake Placid
> Small 4 person starter sail boat
> 
> Jester sailboat (listed as a 14' but I think it might be 12')
> ...


Titus,
How do you know it's a Jester? 
N


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Nancyleeny said:


> Titus,
> How do you know it's a Jester?
> N


when you go to the ad --- look to the right (see below) and I also searched for Jester Sailboat in google images and it looks like that boat
here is another one: http://www.sailingtexas.com/sjester12100.html

condition: good
length overall (LOA): 14
make / manufacturer: Jester

Edit: btw, I will be in the area on the weekend, I could give it a look over --- unless you plan on going there


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

Titus,
We may be going up there on Sunday - can I let you know? Thanks,
Nancy


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Nancyleeny said:


> Titus,
> We may be going up there on Sunday - can I let you know? Thanks,
> Nancy


Sure... when will you know..? On Sunday, I am usually heading back to my work town. If you let me know on Sat. and you need me to do a look-see I could.

I think it might be good to start with a good cheap boat

this one http://burlington.craigslist.org/boa/4974837966.html is out of your range, but would make a good second boat.

It would be my 2016, boat if it was available.


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

That is a nice boat! We were just up there yesterday - drats! Would like to have seen it.

I'll let you know as soon as I know - and thank you!
Nancy


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Nancyleeny said:


> That is a nice boat! We were just up there yesterday - drats! Would like to have seen it.
> 
> I'll let you know as soon as I know - and thank you!
> Nancy


Hmmm should have mentioned it earlier... but I thought it was bigger than you wanted and out of your price point

edit: Lots of boats are coming out, now that the snow has mostly melted away... lots of them on the Vermont Craigs.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

couple jester' links

A sailnet thread on fixing a rudder, 
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/102078-rudder-repair-how-would-you.html

SailNet Community - View Profile: oomfh might still own one

and general info
Boat Details 1


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

It is, a little bigger and more expensive than I wanted, but it depends of their price flexibility. I spoke to the Pintail guy and he is not flexible at all.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

When you look into this (Small 4 person starter sail boat) check to see if that motor is part of it and if the guy has the title...



If you get it I have your avatar ready...


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Nancy-
If you think the drive from Binghamton to Lake George isn't so short...bear in mind how much longer the return trip can be, if the trailer isn't in shape. If you don't know how to check a trailer (wheel bearings, tires not old and dry-rotted, lights) then you might want to figure you'll need some luck and a day at a local trailer shop to make sure it is all good before you hit the road.
FWIW.
And if the seller doesn't have a title statement, in NY you'll need their cooperation to file for a duplicate title, at extra cost, or else it becomes a really pesky process. If the seller doesn't have a title at hand...you never know, it might not be their boat, despite what the last registration says. Either way it becomes a paperwork problem for you. Sometimes it helps to just call ahead and remind them to go find the title, before you hit the road.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Hellosailor makes a great point... regardless of how far the drive is, you will likely have to make the trip a couple times and when the DMV is open. It's even tougher if you have to go back during the week when the DMV is open. 

One boat I was looking at -- a deal, but the owner lived in Vermont and 20 miles from the DMV, that wasn't open every week day. And the owner didn't have the title, but was telling me: "You won't have much problem." which really meant I had to figure it out how to do it.

I did buy a different VT boat, but the guy let me use his trailer plate, he had the title. This helped me out because I could go to the local NYS DMV, but I needed to make a couple trips.

The seller might seem nice, but in the end they are likely unloading something they are done putting time into.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Good point. In theory you might want to get the trailer registered over to you (do they title trailers? I don't think so.) and it might need to be inspected (?) before it became covered under you auto insurance and such. I've got no idea on that deal, but it would be worth calling one's insurance co. and the DMV to make sure there weren't any unexpected surprises.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

In the end, even having the title can be difficult.

I bought a boat for $1,000 and I put on the transfer: Boat value $500; Trailer value - $500.

For a couple reasons, one the trailer was in better shape than the boat; two I thought that maybe there might be a tax or something on the boat, so I wanted to reduce the price.

dmv: "Why did you put down $500 for the boat, you paid $1,000?"

Me: "But I bought a boat *AND* trailer."

The woman couldn't understand how I could put a value on the trailer.. I think she wanted me to value the boat at $1,000 and the trailer at $0

And of course, NYS didn't like the Vermont form..because you don't need a title in VT

Insurance --- my home owner's cover boats under 20ft.

I heard some comedy routine about how to stop crime. The comedian said: "Do away with the death penalty and just make people have to go to the DMV every day."

As an atheist, I can say: "the definition of hell, is the DMV"

If the current owner doesn't want to take the time to find the title... or do some leg work, it means you will have to live in hell for a while.

edit: and the title isn't just for the boat... having info on Trailer is important or you will have to take the trailer (only) some place to have it weighed.

I have bought two boats in two years in a row (it's why I am NOT buying a third one this year) and you would think the DMV has never register a sailboat older than five years before.

Best is if you have someone sign a title over, you don't put a motor on a sailboat under 20 feet (I think) and you don't have to register it, but you do need to register the trailer.


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

Ok, I'll definitely ask about the title! Whew! What a pain the DMV is! 

Thank you!


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I could go on and on about the DMV...

Last story. I sent to the DMV, with the filled out forms I had downloaded from the internet. 

" Oh those are wrong, here are the right ones. You need to fill this out, put your name here here here, put your boat here, put your address here... now go stand over there"

She told me to do that, while 'x' ing and all in 27 seconds, The thing is, no one was in the office, she could have walked me through it since no one was in line... and of course I had to go to the counter a couple times to have her explain a few things.

I know it is kind of arrogant to say to gov workers "I pay your salary" but when I am at the DMV, I want to shout it at the top of my lungs.


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## jwing (Jun 20, 2013)

The DMV station closest to where I live and work is in a city. I have learned that driving out to one of the rural satellite stations is more time-efficient and a less unpleasant experience than the central, metro station. Stay in your county and call ahead for the hours of operation.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

NYS dmv has gotten a lot better in recent years, in my humble experience.

That said, make sure you have all the needed documentation or you will be making multiple visits.

Sail boats 20' and under without a motor require no NYS registration. Oars or paddles work quite well for boats this size. Trailers always require a state registration/title.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

NYS DMV offices often don't know their own rules about boats--unless you are in a location that deals with them. And even then, counter workers have been known to just not know the rules. Managers sometimes just support whatever their staff said. And the rules do change annually. Fortunately, you can usually research them to get an official version.

If a boat is registered, the DMV will collect sales tax, same as for a car. Trailers, I have no idea about. At $1000 I doubt anyone will question an old boat, but with newer more expensive ones? As with cars, they can and will charge you sales tax based on a book value, if they disagree with your bill of sale. Then you're welcome to appeal that. So, splits in values and prices? Not always crazy, or pointless. At $1000 though....Hey, maybe someone is trying to save $40 worth of sales tax.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

My experience with the NYS DMV is fairly limited, so I don't know if it is _better_, but it is not good

With the current boat I just registered the trailer first.. since it was a slam dunk.. had the title and it was newer. I went back with the boat info, then a different clerk questioned the trailer... and since the other clerk wasn't there I had to fill out a form asking the DMV in Albany to accept what had already been done.

It passed and was okay.. but like hellosailor pointed out they don't really know the law.

I was reregistering the boat, because there was no title in Vermont and I wanted a paper trail to say I owned the boat.

But they didn't understand that and kept telling me I had to put the numbers on the boat. I told them a couple times I didn't plan to put a motor on it, so I didn't need to... Eventually the clear said: "shouldn't you put the numbers on ... just in case?"

I understand that I have bought two boats that didn't have a title and that were older... but don't they handle a few of those a year.. or enough to know what to do..

If not, how about look at your policies or.. heck the law.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I just started a new thread

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/learning-sail/198281-my-check-list.html#post2738489

It's a checklist I created to make sure when I go out sailing I don't forget anything. Originally it was for the owner of a boat I sold... he was a first time sailor and I thought it would be helpful for him to not do the same mistakes I made, like forgetting the rudder or to plug in the trailer lights


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Nancyleeny said:


> ** snip }
> 
> I want to get skilled sailing on my own,....
> 
> ** snip }


What is the boat status??


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

titustiger27 said:


> What is the boat status??


Hi titus,
I made an offer, but can't pick it up until next week, which annoyed him. But my father is very ill and I have to go downstate Thursday. I hope he will hold it. He wanted it out of the garage.
Thanks,
Nancy


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Next week as in in May 2... ?

he probably has to get it out by the end of April


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

Ok, I changed my mind. The big reveal! Ta da! 

I'm getting a 14 ft Pintail, probably from the 70s, wooden plank seats that need restoration or replacement, needs sanding, but otherwise in good shape! Picking it up this week.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Nancyleeny said:


> Ok, I changed my mind. The big reveal! Ta da!
> 
> I'm getting a 14 ft Pintail, probably from the 70s, wooden plank seats that need restoration or replacement, needs sanding, but otherwise in good shape! Picking it up this week.


Yippee, but the bonus.. a backwards one.. while you want for the weather to warm up, you have a project... I bought a sander from the 'Jester' sales guy if you want to borrow it.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Congrats Nancy!

The Pintail will make a great starter/learning boat for you. I actually enjoy doing the sanding and varnishing work that boats like this might want. Hope you do to.

PINTAIL sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

This means one thing : *you have to start a blog*

Let us follow the adventure

here is your new avatar


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## Nancyleeny (Jun 2, 2014)

CalebD said:


> Congrats Nancy!
> 
> The Pintail will make a great starter/learning boat for you. I actually enjoy doing the sanding and varnishing work that boats like this might want. Hope you do to.
> 
> PINTAIL sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


Thanks, Caleb! I'm looking forward to getting my hands on it!

Nancy


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