# Pearson 34 Jib selection



## Alegria110 (Apr 9, 2011)

I have a 1984 Pearson 34 - she's a great boat but I am in a dilema - go with the 150% jib for racing or stay with the 135% she's tender as is wiht the 135 but we lose so much downwind wiht the smaller sail - anyone else have experience racing one of these?


----------



## JaredC (Dec 4, 2010)

Jib? Downwind? Therein lies your problem.


----------



## Alegria110 (Apr 9, 2011)

Marblehead Wednesday night racing - non sinnaker wise ass


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Do you have crew? if so, go with the 155, if not, then stay with the 135. Not sure about you PHRF region, but here in the NW, you will probably be hit with a 3 if not 6 sec faster rating with a 155 over a 135. Along with, here we deal with the XXX% in terms of sq ft vs some going by LP length. I can use a sail up at 155% of the foretriangle before going to a code 6 ie -3 from base rating. A 155 comes to about a 152/153 full cut LP. These do help down wind vs smaller if in light airs. You may also wish to make this one on the light side, so if you are sailing in zephers it will catch them, then use the 135 upwind, switch to the 155 down wind in say 10-20 knot winds. I can use my 155 down wind in upwards of mid 20's with gusts to 30. Just as fast and safer than my spin in those winds.

Marty


----------



## Alegria110 (Apr 9, 2011)

I do have regular crew -and yes I will take a 3 sec/mile rating hit if I go with the 155 - problem is we've never really felt the lack of sail area upwind - only downwind in really light air & that is in part because the sail that came with the boat has a really high cut clew - so all that potential sail area between the deck & the clew is wasted with the original sail - 

a potential issue is simplythe extra effort to get a sail that much bigger in quickly enough after a tack - is it really worth it enough to take a 3 sec rating hit?


The boat herself is a bit tender in anything over 10 kts unless I've got a ton or weight on the rail - since I sail genrally with a crew of 5-6 this is petentially a problem since we really can't fit anymore crew anyway.

I really feel torn on this one - assitionally our recreational handicap does not allow me to switch jibs depending on conditions - its either the 135 for the season or the 155 - 

Frankly I wish I could go sail the boat with a 155 & test it before committing the the purchase either way...


----------



## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Total(calc.)SA: 550.38 ft2 
SA/Disp: 17.58 
Disp. 11500 lbs./ 5216 kgs. 
Ballast: 5800 lbs. / 2631 kgs.

This is not anywhere near a tender boat. Get the 155. Make sure you have tracks and adjustable leads to use a 155.



> its either the 135 for the season or the 155


I'm having a hard time believing this. Could you provide a reference for this info? If that's true, make a lot of noise and get it changed, or find another handicap system to race under. One sail for the entire season? That is asinine.


----------



## Alegria110 (Apr 9, 2011)

recreational handicap - 6sec/mile - If I wanted to lose that & go with several headsails that's a different program - one I can't afford & would not do with this boat anyway. PHRF New England....


----------



## JaredC (Dec 4, 2010)

Maybe a deck-sweeping 135% would be a nice compromise?


----------



## Alegria110 (Apr 9, 2011)

right - that's where I think I'm going.... 
Frankly I've never felt like she was underpowered upwind even with the existing 135 wit the really high cut clew - unfortunately that sail was not cut for racing & can't be flattened out at all.

If I buy the deck sweeper I get both the 6 sec mile recreational plus the additional 3sec/mile for 135% frankly based on where I sail I think that this 9 sec/mile is a better play -

Not to mention it's nearly $400 cheaper.


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I can see where you are going with this. One thing to keep in mind.....if your area is LIKE my area, a deck sweeper may still have a bit more SA potential. If you are using 135% of the fro triangle as used here where I am, then the deck sweeper may be better. Another option, is to have a deck sweeper out of lighter better cloth than the HCC(high cut clew) 135 you have now, or splurge for a laminate to race with, save the HCC for daysails and cruising. Also, look to see if you can go to say a 140 or 142 potentially and still keep the 9 sec credit you have. IIRC here in Puget sound a 130-142 is a code 4 as you seem to be describing. So you may be able to go slightly bigger than what you have, keep the rating, gain some speed up and down wind with a larger genoa. Talk to your clubs rating person or whom ever did the rating for you, to see if you can go bigger and not take the hit. If you are going to have a new sail made, max it out for the code size you are trying to stay with in.

Marty


----------



## Sanduskysailor (Aug 1, 2008)

Since you want to keep the 6 sec recreational credit here are a few things to consider:

(a) If the wind is 10knots or less the 135% jib is a loser. You mention that you feel the boat has enough power. Could it be that your heavy 135% with a high cut clew is bagged out a bit causing the boat to heel quite a bit? A new lighter 155% won't heel the boat any more than older heavy 135%.

(b) you can use both a 110% and 155% and still get the credit. Get a good 110% with high clew.

(c) mylar, pentex, and dacron are still eligible for the credit. Suggest you get a 155% UK silver tape drive with pentex or glass tapes which are not high modulus fibers.

Other tips- replace U shackles on swivel and drum with low profile ones from Harken. That way sail changes from the 155 to 110 can be quick albeit bareheaded. Save the 135% for cruising.

Since you sail JAM, try furling the 155% in a little when going wing and wing. About 140% is usually about right.

Never sail dead downwind unless apparent wind is 15 knots or over.

Sail downwind with pole out at about 165 to 170 degrees in lighter winds

If there are any waves trying sailing downwind at angles where you get a little push from them . You can even sail by the lee a little if it gets your transom at the right angle to the waves.

Obviously take all non essential equipment that your PHRF area allows, keep a clean bottom, mark your prop shaft to show where prop is vertical, then lock it in reverse.

Best light air tip I ever got. "The wind around the starting area is disturbed, foot a little at the start and look to clear the other boats then head up to a higher course when you get clear".

Best heavy air upwind tip" Sail to heel angle and knotmeter. Depower the main and see if speed jumps. Max heel angle for an 80s cruiser racer is somewhere near 20-22 degrees:


----------



## Alegria110 (Apr 9, 2011)

yup - finally made the choice to stay with the 135% - Pentex deck sweeper - I'll keep the 3 sec/mile for the 135 & use it only for racing - crew will put it up & take it down - regular old dacron 135 for day sailing & cruising ( there is actually nothing wrong with this sail other than it is too full for upwind racing)

Thanks for the input - anyone wanting to buy new sails look up Steve Thruston or Quantum - he's been great through this little ratings dilema.


----------



## Alegria110 (Apr 9, 2011)

Oops I meant Steve Thurston OF Quantum sails....


----------



## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

Alegria110 said:


> yup - finally made the choice to stay with the 135% - Pentex deck sweeper - I'll keep the 3 sec/mile for the 135 & use it only for racing - crew will put it up & take it down - regular old dacron 135 for day sailing & cruising ( there is actually nothing wrong with this sail other than it is too full for upwind racing)
> 
> Thanks for the input - anyone wanting to buy new sails look up Steve Thruston or Quantum - he's been great through this little ratings dilema.


Sounds like a reasonable choice. As a rule of thumb, I generally consider that we're racing one design if our rating is within 6-10 seconds a mile of other boats in our start class. It's made us faster not allowing any psycological 'excuses'.


----------



## DrB (Mar 29, 2007)

*Late to the Party, But my 2 cents*

FWIW,

I do the MH Wed Night Race Series as Crew on a J105 and some other boats. I don't race my boat my own boat. My ride is a Pearson 10M, which is very similar to your boat as far as performance.

The bottom line is, that unless you put up a kite, which by the rules you can't, your boat is going to be slow down wind. Putting a 155 instead 135 isn't really going to make a significant difference unless you can pole it out, have the wind to fill it, and fly wing-and-wing. Even then your looking only at a small improvement. Strong winds will not really make a 155 better than a 135 as the boat can only gos fast as it's hull speed will dictate. Putting more cloth up isn't adding to speed. The only time a 155 will help is in very light winds, and typically the MH race committee will call the race if the winds are very light or non-existent. They actually have called races in the middle of a race because the wind is dying down and they want to get home in time for beer. We have been 200 yds from the finish, and moving, and they have called the abandoned/called the race, but it was getting "late"

However the issue with using a 155 upwind is more dramatic. A 155 is going to be harder to trim, tack, and will back wind your main. If your in the race and the wind pipes up, you better have a lot of bodies on the rail to even have a chance of minimizing weather helm or you will need to constantly trim the main/155 to get the boat to sail well. Remember your boat sails fastest at about a 20 deg heal, not like a Bristol 35, where like a 30 deg heal maximizes the wetted surface.

In my opinion, for your boat, if your in the 4-8 kt apparent, a 155 is probably ok, but as soon as the wind is more than 8-10 kt apparent, the 135 is a better choice. We have a 135 and a 150 and I have yet to fly the 150 on our boat.

DrB


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

If you are buying a sail for racing, my opinion would have been to get the 150%. Mablehead has plenty of light air evenings where the 150 will deliver far more than the 3 seconds per mile. I suspect if you poll the folks who participate in the 'racing" classes about their "cruising" ratings, that almost all or all include the 150% that is universal in their "racing" profile, also in their "crusing" profile. Naturally, there are plenty of racer/cruisers who include a max of 135% in their ratings, but few of then would buy a sail for "racing".

FWIW, I believe that you can still change your rating twice a year... back when I used to add a 165% for the summer...but nobody buys those anymore...


----------



## Sanduskysailor (Aug 1, 2008)

Dr B, he's bought the 135. I take issue with some of your postulations. Even though the P-34 has a 12.5 E, the J is still 14 which means a lot of the power is derived from the jib. 

"your boat is going to be slow down wind. Putting a 155 instead 135 isn't really going to make a significant difference unless you can pole it out, have the wind to fill it, and fly wing-and-wing. Even then your looking only at a small improvement. Strong winds will not really make a 155 better than a 135 as the boat can only gos fast as it's hull speed will dictate. Putting more cloth up isn't adding to speed. The only time a 155 will help is in very light winds,"

Really? So if you are going dead downwind on a windward/leeward what do you thing the apparent wind will be in 12 knots true wind?? The 155 will make a big difference. There's got a be a reason why those spinnakers are so big.

However the issue with using a 155 upwind is more dramatic. A 155 is going to be harder to trim, tack, and will back wind your main. If your in the race and the wind pipes up, you better have a lot of bodies on the rail to even have a chance of minimizing weather helm or you will need to constantly trim the main/155 to get the boat to sail well.

I can't believe you are saying this. Harder to tack? So what, that's racing. Backwind the main, uh you need to look at your sail trim, main cut, and jib car positioning. Depower? Ever hear of vang sheeting or reefing.

Your advice might be even close to accurate if you had a powered up frac rigged boat with a big main like a eh J105 or if you were sailing in a venue that has flat water when the wind picks up. Pounding upwind in chop in 12-15 apparent (8-11knots true) you will wish you had that 155%.

Heh, if he were racing in my fleet I'd be all for him getting the 135%.


----------

