# Bow rail bend fix



## Philzy3985 (Oct 20, 2012)

Looking for ideas of how to bend the bow-rail back to shape... All you clever members please throw out ideas. 

I was anchored and a buddy came up to side-tie. His sailboat has a much higher freeboard than mine and his bow cleat caught under my bow rail, denting a little bit mostly bending it up a couple inches. It was a mutual idea to side tie, he's a buddy, I'm not going to open an insurance claim. A new rail replacement is between $800-$1000 from what I can find online. 

So... Has anyone ever used a machine shop, or a hammer and a 2x4 to flatten it out, or anything?


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## goat (Feb 23, 2014)

Very odd. The last trip down to my boat I discovered my push pit rail was bent down an inch or so. So I'm watching this thread with rapt attention. I had considered using a halyard and pulling upwards, but the pull would be in too far forward of a direction. I think one would be better off with a strong slow pull as opposed to a shock from a hammer blow. Next time down I'll set up a hydraulic jack from deck to push upward, but I didn't have time this trip (went sailing instead). Could you make a rope loop from the rail to a cleat and 'tourniquet' the loop tight enough to pull it down? 

Good luck,

goat (also in Redondo)


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

I have straightened several but everyone is different. pictures might help decide how to fix it.


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## capt jgwinks (Sep 24, 2013)

For the one that's bent down, I would think a hydraulic jack would push it back into shape. One that needs to be pulled down would be harder. Maybe set the jack on top of the rail and chain it down to a deck cleat or something, so it pushes down instead of up. I don't think a hammer will do it, you need slow pressure not impact, and you might dent the tubing worse than it already is.


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## Philzy3985 (Oct 20, 2012)

Whatever is done, is it better to remove the whole rail from the boat? I think that enough pressure to bend steel could potentially transfer down to the deck and further damage the boat. 

I'll try to post a picture, I keep being there at night and unable to get a decent photo.


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## capt jgwinks (Sep 24, 2013)

Right, if you can get it off that would be better, but sometimes they bury the nuts and bolts so bad you can't get to them. Working upside down up in the pointy end is never fun.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Maybe get an electrician's "hickey" designed for rigid conduit or an emt bender. A 1" (maybe a 3/4")emt bender or a hickey used very carefully might well work.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

A "Spanish Windlass" might do the trick.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

Ideally, you'd take it off the boat, then heat it and bend it back to shape. You could also cut the damaged piece out, and weld a new one in.

Think of this as an opportunity to renew the bedding sealant, and drill and seal the holes in the deck with epoxy.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

If it's bent down, put a halyard on it and winch it with a buddy cranking while you watch the bend. Do it slowly and over bend it a smidge to compensate for springback.

I wouldn't remove it except as a last resort - you will require a machine shop at that point and it's unlikely the bolt holes will ever line up again meaning filling and drilling is required.

I've done it both ways - a good machine shop can cut out sections and repair them invisibly but unless the tubing is kinked you shouldn't have to go that far.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

SloopJonB said:


> If it's bent down, put a halyard on it and winch it with a buddy cranking while you watch the bend. Do it slowly and over bend it a smidge to compensate for springback.
> 
> I wouldn't remove it except as a last resort - you will require a machine shop at that point and it's unlikely the bolt holes will ever line up again meaning filling and drilling is required.
> 
> I've done it both ways - a good machine shop can cut out sections and repair them invisibly but unless the tubing is kinked you shouldn't have to go that far.


What _if_ it kinked? I discovered that some a$$hole must have collided with my boat, of course without leaving a note, and kinked the pushpit. Can anything be done that requires no welding or worse?


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

I had to push one side up and the other down on my stern rail when I installed seats. As long as its not folded or dented too badly it can be pulled out. There's a lot of spring in these tubes. With respect to all the remove or not remove I would straighten in place if at all possible, its just a lot of work to remove and its clamped down right now, why try to duplicate that off the Boat. If it didn't damage fiberglass bending, it will not damage it straightening. I used a cheap bottle jack and some 2x4s and pushed the middle one down bracing on the top on one side (spread out to the welds) and used the deck to push up the other side. You will never fix egged tubing give it a try if its still round.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> What _if_ it kinked? I discovered that some a$$hole must have collided with my boat, of course without leaving a note, and kinked the pushpit. Can anything be done that requires no welding or worse?


If it's kinked the only fix is to have the kinked section cut out and a new piece welded in. I had this done on a stern pulpit that got kinked in the curved corner. The shop I used did nothing but boat stainless and they did such a perfect job that I couldn't even tell where it had been.


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## ReefMagnet (May 8, 2008)

SloopJonB said:


> If it's kinked the only fix is to have the kinked section cut out and a new piece welded in. I had this done on a stern pulpit that got kinked in the curved corner. The shop I used did nothing but boat stainless and they did such a perfect job that I couldn't even tell where it had been.


This. Stainless steel work hardens so buckles and kinks are near impossible to make good other than to bash the rest of the structure back into shape. I've used a press with custom made angle iron formers to push stanchions back into shape, but pressure has to be applied directly and judiciously to the bent area.

A pro will "cut and shut" and make it impossible to see the repair. Have a look at architectural metalwork for examples. And don't worry too much about welding. If you look closely at the bore of polished tube you'll see it's usually welded along it's length during manufacture.


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## Philzy3985 (Oct 20, 2012)

Any idea what the going rate is for a machine shop to spend time with something like this? 

I'm leaning towards first attempting to slowly apply pressure with a wide strap or line so see if I can level it back. If not, or if I mess it up more, than I think I'll try the machine shop route by removing the rail entirely. 

...or is it cheaper to buy wide bags That I can hang my jib sheets in and just hide it all-together? Jk. I'll need to have it fixed before I sell the boat, and as a LAB it stings to walk by my bow every day.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Since you're in L.A. why not check out Minneys and/or the sailboat scrappers to see about getting a new pulpit? They usually go for a couple of boat dimes.


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## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

I have used My hydraulic Wood Splitter,with wood blocking! It worked really well.......Dale


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Most sheet metal and welding shops have hydraulic presses that can quickly, and very easily do the job. The shop rate is usually about $75 an hour, but they may cut you a break. It's a two minute job in the shop.

By all means, take the rail off the boat. Doing on the boat, lifting it up or pressing it down, can easily result in damage.

All the best,

Gary


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

If you're handy or have handy friends, the easiest fix for this is a stout beam (we use a 100x50mm steel channel) with flat hooks at each end and a screw in the middle - looks something like the thumbnail. The one that we use has felt in the hooks and forcing screw saddle to prevent damage to the tubing.

Use is self explanatory - hook the two ends onto the pipe, centre the screw/saddle over the bend and gently tighten and release until the bend is gone. No need for removal of the rail, no heat required just some time and a cold beer.

FYI we use this also as a support when welding SS tubing since 316 stainless tends to deflect when heated.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

If you don't have a pile of 4x4's lying around cut up a hardwood pallet. Lash a strong chunk across the chord of the bend and grooved block and a pipe clamp or C to straighten the curve. If trying to increase the curve lash blocks at each end of the tangent strong back and squeeze at the centre. If SS is ovaled or crinked it needs a welder to cut it out and replace.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Really need to see a pic of the damage. 

If the 'bow-rail' is removable, has no creases, the usual easiest way it to straighten it back to former shape in a hydraulic arbor-type press. Most welding shops and small boiler, etc. repair shops have such equipment and such repair cost to incrementally re-bend in a press is usually minimal. The difficulty will be the high probability of having to fill the old mounting holes & drill new mounting holes in the distressed 'legs', as without a pattern such re-bending is only by 'close-eyeball' tolerances.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

ReefMagnet said:


> This. Stainless steel work hardens so buckles and kinks are near impossible to make good other than to bash the rest of the structure back into shape. I've used a press with custom made angle iron formers to push stanchions back into shape, but pressure has to be applied directly and judiciously to the bent area.
> 
> A pro will "cut and shut" and make it impossible to see the repair. Have a look at architectural metalwork for examples. And don't worry too much about welding. If you look closely at the bore of polished tube you'll see it's usually welded along it's length during manufacture.


I was afraid that was going to be the answer.

I still will take a couple pics next time at the boat and see if anyone has some magic solution. I would very much hesitate to pull the whole thing off the boat!


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

You guys in the US must have some seriously strong SS tube! The stuff we use is 25.4mm (1") OD and has a wall thickness of about 0.6mm. You really don't need a press of any sort to bend this stuff and as long as it is adequately supported at the point of bend, it will not kink or crease. All the rails on my boat that are 1" were all bent using hand benders and the device shown in my earlier post. And I have extensive railings (solid rails and stanchions all the way around).

Even if it needs to be cut/welded, this can be done in total safety and with ease in-situ. A TIG welder generates very little and totally localised heat. And if the pipe is cut, the next pipe-size down fits inside exactly and provides the required support for a perfectly aligned weld.

This kind of repair is really not hard. If a rail has to come off the boat for a minor bend to be straightened or cut/welded, you have more time on your hands than I do.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

ReefMagnet said:


> This. Stainless steel work hardens so buckles and kinks are near impossible to make good other than to bash the rest of the structure back into shape.


Surely you're not suggesting that SS tubing work-hardens after one bend? Really? Taking buckles and kinks (not dents) out is really not hard and even if you need a professional fabricator to help you, these type of repairs can almost always be done on the boat.

And why would "the rest of the structure" need to be bashed? Just fix the bend.

C'mon guys, you fellows have put people on the moon!!


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

Omatako said:


> ...
> 
> Taking buckles and kinks (not dents) out is really not hard
> ...


OK, now I need to know: Does my rail have a buckle, a kink or a dent?

I hope someone can properly diagnose it once I bring the pics, and hopefully even prescribe a therapy.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Omatako said:


> Surely you're not suggesting that SS tubing work-hardens after one bend? Really? Taking buckles and kinks (not dents) out is really not hard and even if you need a professional fabricator to help you, these type of repairs can almost always be done on the boat.
> 
> And why would "the rest of the structure" need to be bashed? Just fix the bend.
> 
> C'mon guys, you fellows have put people on the moon!!


The Kiwi's were masters in the SS field. Excellent work done for me on a variety of projects, tanks, arch, cranse iron, cockpit rails, hinges, etc, etc Not sure why the Norte americanos always made it to be smoke and mirror stuff. With the Kiwi dollar dropping back to "Pacific Peso" status it might be time to head back for some more SS work.


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## ReefMagnet (May 8, 2008)

Omatako said:


> Surely you're not suggesting that SS tubing work-hardens after one bend? Really? Taking buckles and kinks (not dents) out is really not hard and even if you need a professional fabricator to help you, these type of repairs can almost always be done on the boat.
> 
> And why would "the rest of the structure" need to be bashed? Just fix the bend.
> 
> C'mon guys, you fellows have put people on the moon!!


Most all metal work hardens when deformed. 300 grade stainless's are one of the more dramatic due to austenitic structure (hence why "annealed" tube is usually used for fabrication involving forming). I've had success with "warped" tube, but buckled, kinked, dented not so much. Not saying it can't be fixed enough to return to service; just saying that it will never resume the original shape by cold working. If you don't care if the repair doesn't look perfect, then no problem.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

I like Omatako's gadget. We really need pix to make any further suggestions. Fixing in place is the way to go. Guys who do this stuff all the time can easily weld in a new piece if needed with portable TIG equipment so you'd never know it was fixed. They do it with portable equipment all the time specifically because the compound angles on boats are best accomplished on-site. Why spend all the time and effort to remove the whole thing? Work hardenening won't be significant from one bend.


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## Philzy3985 (Oct 20, 2012)

Here is a photo of mine. It only allows one upload at a time from mobile so bare with me


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## Philzy3985 (Oct 20, 2012)

A photo of the bend upward on a plane compared to the other side of the rail


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## Philzy3985 (Oct 20, 2012)

A look underneath at the dent from the other boats cleat.


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## Philzy3985 (Oct 20, 2012)

Last photo- looking down to get an idea of and sideways bend- very minimal, it was mostly pushed straight up. 

The idea to try to ratchet and slowly bend it back to place appeals as a first try. I will likely use the junction on the lower rail and the cleat on the deck as my points to attach something to and pull down at the same rate. If it doesn't work, maybe some calls to welders.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Easy to straighten but the dent will be there until you cut it out


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Think I'd just get a piece of 2 X 4 with 2 X 4 blocks on each end to space it 1-1/2" from the rail and then use a soft padded C-clamp to straighten it. It might take some trial and error to get the wood and clamp balanced so it doesn't slip out but would probably do the trick. The only way to get rid of the dimple is to weld in a new piece. You could try using a dent puller tool (body shops have them) in while heating the spot but it might be worse than it started when you were finished and there would be a hole for the tool.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

They weld on studs for those dent pullers - you don't have to drill but they are for sheet metal panels, not something as stiff as a piece of tubing.

Straighten it out and live with the dimple - it'll only be seen from the dock with a close look.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

So straighten the pipe, fill the dent with bondo and cover with about 6 inches of cockscombing. (see marlinespike work). put same on other side for visual balance and use it for better grip when working the fore deck


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

SloopJonB said:


> Straighten it out and live with the dimple - it'll only be seen from the dock with a close look.


I agree, that's exactly what I would do if it were mine. That beam gadget I posted earlier will straighten that bend perfectly.

If you're a perfectionist with money to burn, have 6" of the pipe cut out, a new piece inserted, welded and polished. But that can all be done on the boat.

Just for reference - I installed solid rails all around my boat. The original stanchions around the front half of the boat had the tops cut off and re-profiled with a small grinder, we bent up the rails in a workshop, took them to the boat, tweaked them exactly into shape by hand and using the tool above and then welded them to the tops of the stanchions and the existing pulpit. Welds and pre-existing parts were acid-treated and polished and it is impossible to see where the additions have been done. The stanchions were not even loosened up let alone removed.

The damage in the pics shown by Philzy is a walk in the park for any decent fabricator.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

SloopJonB said:


> They weld on studs for those dent pullers - you don't have to drill but they are for sheet metal panels, not something as stiff as a piece of tubing.
> 
> Straighten it out and live with the dimple - it'll only be seen from the dock with a close look.


Most are like the one below. No welding needed. The slide attaches to the little bolt which threads into the metal. Usually multiple holes are drilled around a large dent. It might work for your dent if you heated the area to soften it and then used the slide hammer very carefully. I'd also just live with the dent.

Blackhawk By Proto Body Dent Puller, 16 In. L ET-1710 | Zoro.com


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## chachere (Sep 2, 2010)

I had excellent results fixing a bent bow rail using a 1" electrician's conduit bender that I bought at a big box home supply store for about $75. Its designed for bending tubing (obviously), and one can't tell that the rail was ever damaged (this wouldn't work if there was a kink of any kind). You might be able to rent one for less.


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## Philzy3985 (Oct 20, 2012)

I'm going to try a couple methods to straighten it this weekend and follow up with my result. 

Thanks for all the input fellas. 

At least my friend got a good picture after the incident


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

Philzy3985 said:


> Last photo- looking down to get an idea of and sideways bend- very minimal, it was mostly pushed straight up.
> 
> The idea to try to ratchet and slowly bend it back to place appeals as a first try. I will likely use the junction on the lower rail and the cleat on the deck as my points to attach something to and pull down at the same rate. If it doesn't work, maybe some calls to welders.


Do this, and wrap some line around it if you want, the dent will be there until you cut it out. This is a manageable fix.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

You guys are WAYYYY overthinking this.

Grab a come-along out of the garage attic, borrow one or buy one for $15.

Wrap a tow strap around the rail and one around the cleat directly below it. Go slowly, pull it back in line then pop a beer. The whole project shouldn't take more than ten minutes. Sheesh.

Yeah you'll still have a ding in the underside of the rail. Whether or not that's a big deal depends on how particular you are.

1200 lb. Cable Winch Puller


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

There's a tool that clamps onto the rail made specifically for the purpose of bending pipe....or in this case rail.....works great ......said with the voice of experience.


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## chachere (Sep 2, 2010)

kjango said:


> There's a tool that clamps onto the rail made specifically for the purpose of bending pipe....or in this case rail.....works great ......said with the voice of experience.


As I said, a conduit bender tool does just that; it provides support on the back side of the bend, so that you don't put another kink into the tubing. And because the tool applies pressure on both sides while you are unbending, you don't have to worry about stressing the deck connections at the base of the pulpit.


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## Philzy3985 (Oct 20, 2012)

I gave the ratchet strap idea a shot and applied as much force as I could, it brought the bend down a little. It's not a perfect fix but will do for now. When I need a permanent repair I'll have a metal worker visit and replace the bad section.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Use a come-along - ratchet straps are tie downs, come-alongs are for moving stuff. Even a cheap one will exert 2 tons of force.


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