# Final Dinghy Choice - does this make sense?



## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

So... I've read all the threads I can find and understand there is no right answer here but some input to my decision logic would be much appreciated.

*Parent Boat: *Bristol 38.8
*Use: *Extended coastal cruising inc Caribbean and perhaps Newfoundland
*Requirement: *Basic tender but capable of supporting snorkeling and perhaps Scuba diving
*Pax: *Normally 2, max 4
*OB: *3.5HP

Remaining options:
Porta-bote 10' 8" with ladder
Achilles LSI-260

Here is my logic (not in particular order of importance):

Parameter_________Porta-bote______________Achilles____________Winner

Length:___________10' 8"____________________8' 6"_____________A
Listed capacity:____3________________________4 _______________A
Weight:___________67lb (w/o seats ladder etc.)_66lb all up________A
Max motor wt:_____56lb______________________66lb_____________Draw
OB protected?______No (hull damage potential)___Yes______________A
Cost:_____________$2,359 (w req accessories)__$2,046 all up______A
Deck assay/infl?____Possible__________________Possible__________Draw
Towing?___________Questionable______________Possible__________A
Diving etc?________Possible (with acc ladder)____Easy_____________A
Packed size:_______V small and easily stored____Moderately large___PB
Rowable?_________Yes______________________Barely____________PB
Sailable?_________Yes ($849)_________________No______________PB
General robustness___________________________________________PB?
Stability during boarding_______________________________________A?
Confidence in company / warranty etc.__________________________A

Looks like the Achilles is winning this one pretty easily for me (despite Porta-bote's ads of sinking inflatables 

Is my logic remotely sound?
Am I missing anything important?
Can you do tables in this thing?.......

Thanks a lot


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Look at the "Kaboat". I'm getting the big black one. Affordable, stowable, stable, cool looking. Paddle able. I love those things. Just google Kaboat.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

Your logic seems very sound to me as well as the earlier statement, "There is no right answer". What tipped the scales for me to choose the RIB was the carrying capacity (laundry, bicycles, groceries) and stability,- my wife's desire to step on the edge of the dinghy for boarding. My response to her was, "you must be right" and we bought the Carribe, but I see great advantages in other choices too.

I do like some of the features of that Kaboat,- weight, stability, capacity. I'll make a note to look at one in use. As of yet I have not seen one on the water.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Kaboats are great if you want a 12' -14' long boat with the payload of an 8' boat.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Graham, why Achilles?


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

bljones said:


> Graham, why Achilles?


Low weight for capacity
Good material
Reasonable price

I am definitely open to equivalent options for a 4pax lightweight as my research was not comprehensive.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Graham, 
If I may, take a look at Mercury inflatables.

Mercury 270, Air Floor 8' 10", Gray PVC, 2012

Defender is a great place to compare the specs on all of the big dinghy manufacturers.


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

bljones said:


> Graham,
> If I may, take a look at Mercury inflatables.
> 
> Mercury 270, Air Floor 8' 10", Gray PVC, 2012
> ...


This has a lower capacity presumably due to the softer floor. Perhaps a more equivalent model is this one:

Mercury 270, Air Floor 8' 4", White Hypalon, 2012

Very similar spec (EDIT although 20lb heavier...) and still a good bit cheaper. Thanks for that.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

bljones said:


> Kaboats are great if you want a 12' -14' long boat with the payload of an 8' boat.


I've only seen one, and looked at them one line. Never driven one. I liked the one I saw, it was the big 16 foot " special forces model" in black. It had four people in it, and they were zooming across the bay with an 8 horse. The guy said he loved it for cuising because it fit nicely in a bag and put together quick. Useless if you use davits. Works well as a kayak and a little engine pushes it along pretty good. I don't know much about it's pay load. I love the price! Cheap enough to buy and keep in the bag for a back up if I don't like the way it handles chop on a plane. How else can you have a 16 foot skiff while crusing on a modest size sail boat?


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

Capt.aaron said:


> I've only seen one, and looked at them one line. Never driven one. I liked the one I saw, it was the big 16 foot " special forces model" in black. It had four people in it, and they were zooming across the bay with an 8 horse. The guy said he loved it for cuising because it fit nicely in a bag and put together quick. Useless if you use davits. Works well as a kayak and a little engine pushes it along pretty good. I don't know much about it's pay load. I love the price! Cheap enough to buy and keep in the bag for a back up if I don't like the way it handles chop on a plane. How else can you have a 16 foot skiff while crusing on a modest size sail boat?


You have a very interesting concept of a kayak 

This is a Kayak......









.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

GrahamO,
Neither of these boat fit your requirements:
1. Four people is four people not "maybe three". Can you visualize the 6'1" X 2'2" (inside dimensions) Achilles with four people in it? Certainly no gear or supplies and somebody is going to get their butt wet as they will be sitting on the floor.
2. You probably will go faster rowing four adults in the Portabote than in the Achilles with a 3.5 hoursepower motor. How many horsepower does it take to plane a Portabote with four people? The Achilles will be a pig with 3.5 horsepower.
3. Inflatables support diving better as in and out is easier. However there are inflateable collars for rigid dingys that accomplish the same thing.
4. Shallow water over coral, rock and oyster shells are the kiss of death for inflateables and can do pretty good damage to some types of rigids. 
5. Soft bottoms and hard gear are also problematic.
No easy choices, but you probably will do better with an inflateable for diving, they seem to be ubiquitous for this use. But the model of Achilles you listed does not meet your requirements.
Hope this helps.
John


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Yes, that is a sea kayak. I have one. The kaboat is ment to be propelled with kayak paddles if not by engine, which I understand it does quite efficiantly. Rather than rowing, which your run of the mill, standard inflatables don't do so well to windard. I've cruised with sit on top kayaks, paddle boards with kayak paddles, even a canoe that I used a Kayak paddle and sat in the middle. I've had inflatables, deflatables, hard bottom inflatables, Buldgers, Dyers, prams, homemades, sinkables, unsinkables, whalers, a livingston, a ganoe, a dug out canoe, when I anchored off Miami Beach in th early 90's I paddled out on a surf board and changed into dry clothes on land,( balanced a plasitc bag on the back of my head) I've had no dighy and swam out to my boat. I've used white water Kayaks, even had an inflatable kayak and the Kaboat is essentially that on steroids. Hence the Ka in Kaboat. You can put four people and gear in the biggest of the Kaboats and hand each of them a kayak paddle. You'll be the envy of the anchorage. When that dude came zooming through our anchorage in his Kaboat, we all wanted one. You know how silly 4 adults in a little inflatable with one guy rowing up wind look's. You'll get more push out of your 3.5 as well.


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

ccriders said:


> GrahamO,
> Neither of these boat fit your requirements:
> 1. Four people is four people not "maybe three". Can you visualize the 6'1" X 2'2" (inside dimensions) Achilles with four people in it? Certainly no gear or supplies and somebody is going to get their butt wet as they will be sitting on the floor.
> 2. You probably will go faster rowing four adults in the Portabote than in the Achilles with a 3.5 hoursepower motor. How many horsepower does it take to plane a Portabote with four people? The Achilles will be a pig with 3.5 horsepower.
> ...


Thanks John,
It sort of helps but, given that neither of my options work, do you have any recommendations that might get me there?


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

Capt.aaron said:


> Yes, that is a sea kayak. I have one. The kaboat is ment to be propelled with kayak paddles if not by engine, which I understand it does quite efficiantly. Rather than rowing, which your run of the mill, standard inflatables don't do so well to windard. I've cruised with sit on top kayaks, paddle boards with kayak paddles, even a canoe that I used a Kayak paddle and sat in the middle. I've had inflatables, deflatables, hard bottom inflatables, Buldgers, Dyers, prams, homemades, sinkables, unsinkables, whalers, a livingston, a ganoe, a dug out canoe, when I anchored off Miami Beach in th early 90's I paddled out on a surf board and changed into dry clothes on land. I've had no dighy and swam out to my boat. I've used white water Kayaks, even had an inflatable kayak and the Kaboat is essentially that on steroids. Hence the Ka in Kaboat.


Understood - just playing.... Looks like it would be a blast in surf.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

GrahamO said:


> Thanks John,
> It sort of helps but, given that neither of my options work, do you have any recommendations that might get me there?


I just looked at the Bristol 38.8 website. Beautiful boat. I'd like one myself. Looks like there are several opportunities to carry a dinghy on deck. Have you querried the Bristol group as to how they do dinghy? You seem to have settled on a minalmist dinghy that would be required if you had a 28' boat. There are nesting dinghies that will travel on deck and give you the size you need and there are inflateables large enough for your needs. The problem with inflateables is that they require a big engine which can weigh more that the boat and are puncturable. 
I would look at nesting dinghies around 10-12 feet and about 6hp and, if you are really going for four people with dive gear, get a flotation collar fitted to it. 
nice boat,
John


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Ya, I saw video of a guy going down white water with gear and then out to sea with a 2 horse when he got to the mouth of the river. It's a tough, versatile little boat. Why don't you make the plunge and get a hard bottom zodiac, fast rescue model. center console, hang it on davits or nest it on deck, use your hallyard to launch? They make a 10 footer I think.


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

ccriders said:


> I just looked at the Bristol 38.8 website. Beautiful boat. I'd like one myself. Looks like there are several opportunities to carry a dinghy on deck. Have you querried the Bristol group as to how they do dinghy? You seem to have settled on a minalmist dinghy that would be required if you had a 28' boat. There are nesting dinghies that will travel on deck and give you the size you need and there are inflateables large enough for your needs. The problem with inflateables is that they require a big engine which can weigh more that the boat and are puncturable.
> I would look at nesting dinghies around 10-12 feet and about 6hp and, if you are really going for four people with dive gear, get a flotation collar fitted to it.
> nice boat,
> John


Thanks John,
I was not completely clear. Two people max diving, occasional 4 people ferried to/from dock or shore. 
I'm not a kid any more so I am really trying to keep the weight down as well as deck obstruction as I really don't like towing.... 
I am probably getting a bit ahead of myself here (what's new?) as we have not taken delivery of the boat yet and we will have a slip for the first year so getting on board and working out what will work is probably the best idea. Trouble is we need to move it from southern Mass to Central Maine and I'm not keen to do that without any dinghy. I guess we can use a Walmart tub for a few weeks. That's actually all we had on our last sailboat...... That way we can work this issue a little more effectively. Four people in that should be a scream.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

No way Ii would ever go with another HPIB as a LA or cruiser. Been there done that. And BTW, I have punched a hole in a HPIB (hit a chunk of coral) and luckily I was close to shore. When you get south, you will find almost all FT cruisers carry RIB's becaues they can take a better beating, can go faster, and you aren't always airing them up.

I have a 10'2 AVON HPIB that is nicely rolled up in storage. I pull it out at times for the kids to toodle around on because I couldn't care less if it sinks. 

Do not underestimate the need for speed (well, at least we don't). The ability to get out of an idiots way or when you anchor a long way out and need to get to supplies or any other number of reasons we have found the ability to plane out and go "fast" was a big characteristic. Contrary to what HPIB's tell you, they simply cannot perform like a RIB. And the first time your floor gets a hole in it (happened frequently to us) you will hate that boat. You will put a lot of wear in a tender for cruising and LA. It is your car. ANd when you beach it, and get back in, you will bring with you pieces of shell and gravel that starts really wearing into the floor and other parts.

The thing about RIB's I hated was the weight. I think the most awesome RIB is the aluminum AB's. THey are not cheap!! I warn you. But a solid RIB from what I have seen. I personally did not buy this RIB. I bought a WAlker Bay Genesis (not to be confused with teh cheap junk they sell). This Rib actually has a floor in it so the water sits under your feet in a bilge. This is good because clothes and groceries do not get wet in your travel between boat and shore. Also good because all the shells fall down into the bilge and do not constale chafe the inside of the boat. It has great compartmens to store stuff and is lightweight. My only negative of it is that it does not perform quite as well as our older Avon RIB 10'2 (not the POS inflateable). But since it weighs in around 100-110 lbs IIRC, its is a great option. 

For an engine we begged and finally found a 2 stroke 15hp Yamaha. Best engine I have owened and it will fly and it is very light. If you shop hard you can probably still find a 2-stroke. If you can, I would reccomend buying it even if used. Just so you know, we also have a Mercury 6hp 4 stroke which is as reliable as our HPIB.

So there you go. Those are just my opinions. For weekending or small trips, I would buy a HPIB. But I would not for anything serious. 

I have not owned a Portabote or the other, so will let others comment on them that have owned them. 

Brian


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

For serious cruising I wouldn't own anything other than a hard bottom inflatable, unless I had the room to carry a solid boat. After 8 years down island our RIB's bottom had been so abused it looked like someone had drug it down the road behind a pickup, but it just kept running long after an inflatable floor would have died. We actually started with a soft bottom, and ripped a unreparable gash in it six months into the voyage. Something about a coral finger as we pulled it up on the beach.

I would also really recommend getting as large an engine as you can. You won't be anchoring near most dive sites, and while it is nice to think you won't mind the slow trip to them, when those trips are over even remotely open water a fast dinghy is a safety issue as well, since getting back before storm break can be critical. It also means you will be much more likely to take dives since it changes a Day trip to a couple of hours. Finally in the event that you need to use the dinghy as a tow boat, which we had to do a number of times, a larger engine will make a world of difference.

Finally carry the biggest boat you possibly can. While island cruising they are often the only way to get water, provisions, fuel, people, parts, ect onto your boat. A small dingy that requires multiple trips makes all of these thing much more difficult. I remember having to reprovision 250 gallons of water, and 100 gallons of fuel by dinghy. As is it took us all day, in a smaller dinghy it could have taken 3 days easily.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Stumble and Cruising Dad are on the money. Once you get a hard bottom inflatable and get used to the speed and stability, it's impossable to go back. I alway's have a good a rowing or paddling something on deck as a back up. I to own a 15 horse yamaha 2 stroke which I purchased new in Guanaja Honduras, love it. I loved my Livingston, cat hull. Stable, very fast, light. and handled a chop better than any dinghy I ever owned. Half throttle I was at full speed. I still like those kaboats though. You just have to be tender, don't drag it up a coral beach, I owned a soft bottom Avon for ten years and never put a whole in it. The kaboat is light enough for two people to cary up on to the beach. You can drive a hard bottom up the beach at full speed though!


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Stumble said:


> For serious cruising I wouldn't own anything other than a hard bottom inflatable, unless I had the room to carry a solid boat. After 8 years down island our RIB's bottom had been so abused it looked like someone had drug it down the road behind a pickup, but it just kept running long after an inflatable floor would have died. We actually started with a soft bottom, and ripped a unreparable gash in it six months into the voyage. Something about a coral finger as we pulled it up on the beach.
> 
> I would also really recommend getting as large an engine as you can. You won't be anchoring near most dive sites, and while it is nice to think you won't mind the slow trip to them, when those trips are over even remotely open water a fast dinghy is a safety issue as well, since getting back before storm break can be critical. It also means you will be much more likely to take dives since it changes a Day trip to a couple of hours. Finally in the event that you need to use the dinghy as a tow boat, which we had to do a number of times, a larger engine will make a world of difference.
> 
> Finally carry the biggest boat you possibly can. While island cruising they are often the only way to get water, provisions, fuel, people, parts, ect onto your boat. A small dingy that requires multiple trips makes all of these thing much more difficult. I remember having to reprovision 250 gallons of water, and 100 gallons of fuel by dinghy. As is it took us all day, in a smaller dinghy it could have taken 3 days easily.


Agree completely.

I would love to hear from anyone that has actually gone cruising that would reccomend a HPIB. I suspect if there are any, they are few and far between.

Tom Neale (All in the Same Boat) even said to get a hard dinghy, RIB in the least. I have found most of his adivce right on target.

Brian


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

I wanted to add one more thing...

While cruising a dinghy is not just a way to get you back and forth to the boat, that is the least difficult of its jobs. Dinghys are work vehicles, pressed into service as everything from a resuply vessel, to a work platform, dive boat, gear retrieval system (stuff floating away), a taxi, a pickup truck, and anything else you can think of. They need to be strong durable, stable, and have the power to move people plus gear with ease.

Just as an example, when we were in Bonaire, friends and family would routinely fly in to meet us. This would mean at least 3 people plus two peoples luggage would have to make the 3 mile trip from the dock to the anchorage. If your dinghy can't do that and keep things dry, it won't work long term.

As for HPIB's, I have one on my power boat. It works fine with a 6hp on it. Kinda slow but it will get you to the dock and back. But the floor is not really rigid, and keeping it filled is a daily problem. For weekending around its fine, and doesn't weight anything, but for serious cruising... No way.

Finally carry a sea kayak, or small sailboat, we did and had a blast on it. But that doesn't make it a dinghy.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Yet another example of Sailnet thread "needs inflation."
The OP starts off with a simple premise, by the second page he is getting reccommendations that far exceed his needs, with dire warnings that his original premise will be a complete failure.

Seriously, lots of folks cruise with dinghies without hard bottoms, and do just fine. Who the hell cares about planing in a get-to-shore dinghy and dive platform?
an RIB is at least twice the cost of a hard floor inflatable of the same length, and weighs twice as much, requiring a bigger O/B, and they are very nice, but require davits (more $$$) and the benefit is? 
They plane and handle coral better.
Hell, one could sacrifice a soft bottom inflatable to coral every year and still be money ahead three years later.

Somewhere along the way , the original spec of "Normally 2, max 4" occupants got extrapolated into needing to accomodate 4 regularly.

Our 6.5' (yep, it is real short) inflatable regularly carries two unlight adults, a hyperactive dog and 10 gallons of water comfortably, easily propelled by a 2 hp OB. Yeah, the boat doesn't plane. So what? neither does my sailboat.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

I've owned several types of dinghy and messed about in many other's small craft. Despite all their advantages and popularity I HATE inflatables because when the motor dies you can NOT row them home unless it is the most favorable of conditions.

I don't think people talk about this failing enough, but I can tell you that when you can't paddle against 1.5-2kts of current and you find yourself getting swept out to sea and away from your boat, it makes you think.

I really like the looks of the Kaboat. I've also liked the looks of the portaboat though it's one of the few craft I've never used I would take note of how fanatical the owners of them are. Most all of them LOVE the boat. I've also seen them rowing well.

We had a lot of conflicting needs, but we ended up with the best compromise we could find. We wanted stable (for small kids), rowable, sailable, able to mount a small OB and most of all abusable. We also were attracted to the "proactive liferaft" component of our choice, the Portland Pudgy.

We love it! (they're not cheap new, but they pop up on craigslist for a few hundred dollars pretty often)

Portland Pudgy safety dinghy, inflatable boat, or fiberglass dinghy?










MedSailor


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

I cruised for two years with a dug out canoe and a paddle I made with a machette. I cruised all ove C.A. with an old wind surf board and a kayak paddle I made out of a plastic trash can lid and a closet pole. I've cruised with a hard bottom inflatable and 15 horse engine. I built a plywood dinghy in Venezuala when some French dude stole my Fancy hard bottom. I swam in and out when I had nothing. You'll alway's find a way and there is alway's a better way. I've eaten caviar with royalty and dumpster dived with hippies in Mexico. I want the best working, fastest skiff/ dinghy that will carry Grandma, the kids and a dog just as much as the next guy, but, engines break. deflatables deflate, my arms get sore from rowing. The wind is alway's against ya, there's water in the sh#$ty gas you bought in Belize, so on and so fourth. I've never been NOT able to get out to my boat. Expect the worst and hope for the best.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

^^^^ this guy is the gulf version of Brent Swain.


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

bljones said:


> Yet another example of Sailnet thread "needs inflation."
> The OP starts off with a simple premise, by the second page he is getting reccommendations that far exceed his needs, with dire warnings that his original premise will be a complete failure.
> 
> Seriously, lots of folks cruise with dinghies without hard bottoms, and do just fine. Who the hell cares about planing in a get-to-shore dinghy and dive platform?
> ...


Thanks Brian,
I must admit I was starting to spin on this one.... Anyway, all input adds something to the body of knowledge. There are some Surprisingly light RIB's that I was not aware of (at a price....).
I think we are going to start off with a Walmart tub and work it out after some time on the boat. We will know what will or will not fit the foredeck and what we can comfortably lift by then.


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

*Re: Final Dinghy Choice - does this make sense? THANKS*

Thanks everyone for the input. There are some interesting ideas here.

Given that it appears to be one of the trickier decisions we are going to get on the boat and think about it for a while. We are a couple of years away from long distance cruising (got to pay for the darned thing first...) so we have some time to sort this out - and we have LOTS of kayaks.....

Thanks again


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

If you're serious about cruising get the biggest Hypalon RIB you can afford and at, at a minimum, a 15 hp 2 stroke Yamaha.


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

Vasco said:


> If you're serious about cruising get the biggest Hypalon RIB you can afford and at, at a minimum, a 15 hp 2 stroke Yamaha.


Vasco,
That is all well and good. I enjoy fast inflatables and prefer RIBs and buy into many of the practicality issues

BUT

Where do you stow it when underway? 
How do you get it on and off the boat without getting (another) hernia?
Come to think of it where do you get a 2 Stroke Yamaha?


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

GrahamO said:


> Vasco,
> That is all well and good. I enjoy fast inflatables and prefer RIBs and buy into many of the practicality issues
> 
> BUT
> ...


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

bljones said:


> Yet another example of Sailnet thread "needs inflation."
> The OP starts off with a simple premise, by the second page he is getting reccommendations that far exceed his needs, with dire warnings that his original premise will be a complete failure.
> 
> Seriously, lots of folks cruise with dinghies without hard bottoms, and do just fine. Who the hell cares about planing in a get-to-shore dinghy and dive platform?
> ...


Ouch.

I dissagree with so many things you said. Suprising because I generally agree with most of your posts and find them a good resource. For the record, everything I told him was right-on target from my experience. ANd I may b one of the only people on this forum that actually currently owns both a HPIB and RIB and has been cruising (and soon will be again).

Ii am going to pick apart what you have said. It is not meant to start a internet argument, but rather to show you that the quotes above are misleading if not altogether wrong.

1) Regarding the dive platform. It was the OP that brought that up. My experience is that it didn't matter either way, and in some ways the HPIB was better because crap doesn't slide aroun an bang in the hard bottom. My issue was never which tender, but trying to get my lard butt back into it in after a day of diving. I think he would be fine with either tender as that's not the real issue.

2) Cost is at least twice as much for a RIB versus HPIB. Not true. I paid ballpark $2200 - 2500 for my tender. It is 10'2ish. As he quoted $2100-$2400 for the current choice of tenders, they are comparable in price. If you jump into an aluminum tender, yes you will pay a lot more. However, I only threw that out as an option because I think they are excellent choices if money is not an object. Still, I did not purchase one and few people I know have one due to cost.

3) Lots of folks cruise without hard bottoms. True, but missleading. Lots of people do it. I have seen them. I may not have coined the phrase, but often use it, "You would be shocked what people cruise on..." I hold by that and I truly believe you can _make _about anything work. However, my first hand experience and that of most people I have met, wish they had a RIB that own(ed) a soft bottom. I have seen people get by fine with a kayak. The really cheap plastic sailing dinghys from Walker Bay are more numerous than I would have suspcted. I have seen three people (different boats) that just swam to shore. I even have a picture somewhere of this guy that used a truck intertube (really funy, he was fishing from it too and sunburned). Getting out cruising is more important than having the perfect equipment, but if you are going to go and are going to spend the money, get the right equipment the first time instead of buying it twice. I was dumb and bought it twice. I am trying to get someone else to learn from my mistakes.

4) Who cares about a planning dinghy. I thought it was pointless until I did it too. Now I would not haver one that does not plane. It also helps when taking the dog to shore. I anchor out a lot and many places are simply not accessible due to the draft of my sailboat. As such, we find a place that is good holding and use the tender to explore and fish. The tender will be your workhorse and car. Each person can choose for themselves whether they want the horse or the car. Both will get the job done, I guess.










5) RIB's require a much bigger outboard. Not true. Not if we are comparing apples-apples. A slat-bottom soft floor was not even one of the tenders he offered so I will keep that out of the equation (I have owned one of those too). His minimum inflateable was a HPIB. The whole point of a HPIB is to plane. On mine, we chose a 6hp Mercury. It would barely get me up on a plane with one kid in there. On our Avon RIB, we had a 8HP. It would easily get me and the wife and Chase up on a plane (we used an Avon RIB on our 380, circa 1999-2003ish). My experience is that the RIB will jump on a plane easier with same HP and hold it better. The issue with a HPIB is that no matter how you hard you pump it up, there is a lot more drag on the bottom (bottom is seperate from floor) and you may actually have to have more HP on a HPIB to maintain a comporable plane. They do weigh less, but surprisingly in my experience, that is less an issue than its ability to get on and hold a plane. In effect, you do not have to have a larger engine with a RIB. However, you generally get the option to have a larger engine. And if he goes with a 2 stroke over 4, he will find that a 15hp probably weighs the same as a 8 hp 4stroke and is a lot less unwieldly.

6) RIB's require a davit. Not true. I see many people that do not have davits that use a RIB. They haul it up on deck. That would not be my choice (and was not). I would have Davits for either type because you don't want to leave either type in the water. Honestly, it was less of a concern that it gets stolen (an issue though) and more of a concern and issue with growth. A rib also pulls behind the boat better in my opinion and that is how it will b used a LOT while cruising.

7) Regarding coral and HPIB's versus RIB's. I have punched a hole in my boat so am a bit prjudiced about it, but the bottom line is that he will be shoring his boat a lot and the sand alone will wear quickly on a HPIB. As I also pointed out, the sand and shells get between the HPIB floor and bottom and chafe it. Quite candidly, when cruising, you likly won't tie up at a dinghy dock every night or have access to a marina every night... at least we dont. And if you are just going to marina hop, you probably don't need a tender at all.

8) You could sacrifice a soft bottom inflateable every year for three years and still come out ahead. First, a true soft bottom was never even on his list and not an option he presented. Second, this assumes you are in the US. Let's say he blows his soft bottom in the Carribean. What is the cost of replacement there, if he can even get one? I bet it is a wee bit more than in the US (Tongue in cheek). Just get the right tender the first time and not worry about it.

9) "Our 6.5' (yep, it is real short) inflatable regularly carries two unlight adults, a hyperactive dog and 10 gallons of water comfortably, easily propelled by a 2 hp OB. Yeah, the boat doesn't plane. So what? neither does my sailboat" You have made work what is right for you. I am cool with that. If as a F/T cruiser you have made that work, good for you. I did not like it at all. And BTW, as you are throwing out the 6'5 boat with no HPIB and a 2 hp motor, aren't you "needing inflation" as you too are not offering direct experience with the very tenders he is throwing out here as options? THough you are minimalizing what he needs, you just did the same thing you accused others of doing.

I am not trying to start a internet war. The commens in this thread are not mean to anger you. I am adding to this thread because if anyone else reads it that has similar thoughts, they will see a variety of other views. That is what the internet is about and makes it a good source.

These are only my opinions. Take them as such. Tenders, anchors, keels, etc ellicit a variety of opinions that are based in direct experience and will often bring very opposing views.

Thanks.

Brian


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

To me this breaks down into a few separate issues. The first is 

1) where you are going to store any dinghy. Of any type. If you want to put it on the bow, there are some real hurdles you have to address to do this reasonably well. First is how to get it out of the water. The normal answer here is to use a spinnaker halyard and winch to pull it up, swing it onto the deck, and then manhandle it into a set of fixed chocks mounted to the bow. Even wi a small light boat this is not an easy operation, and is almost impossible to do in strong winds, without a significant number of hands. Yes it is possible and I have done it, but it is a pain.

The other option is to flip the boat over and put it on the bow. This is more secure as sea, doesn't require the chocks, and makes visibility a bit better looking forward. However flipping over the boat is a pretty big time commitment, and a real PITA. 

The other option is to store it under the boom... I have never done this so I won't comment except to say it just looks like a bad idea.

Finally you can put whatever boat you buy on a davit system on the back. This is probably the most expensive option, since these davits run about $1,000. But once they are there you just grab a line with multiple purchase blocks on it, and pull the boat out of the water. No work, no real loads, no fighting with it. And it takes about a minute to pull my dinghy out of the water. This means you can do it every night, so you don't need bottom paint, and don't have to worry about it getting stolen. In addition, if something goes wrong in the middle of the night the dinghy is already stowed for sea, or can be dropped in the water in moments to help out.


Once the storage solution is decided on, then you have to decide what dinghy you want. I have used them all, and have cruised with them all, and I have determined for me when I would use one versus the other.

1) for a boat that lives at the dock, will be provisioned at the dock,, and just needs to put people ashore to go drinking, the cheapest option available. This is the weekender boat that leaves on Friday night and return to port on Sunday. 

2) If the dinghy is oing to be used for anything else, I would always buy a hard bottom. Both for the speed, and the durability. And the longer you are crusing the more important a hard bottom and speed is. Everyone thinks of beaches as pretty sand flats that taper gently into the sea. And if you happen to be in destin that's pretty much true. But I have pulled dinghys up on everything from shale to rocks to coral, mud, sea grass, logs, pieces of junk beaches that are destined to rip, scratch, and tear anything they get there hands on. Adding a soft inflatable bottom to the mix is just asking for trouble, and a ripped open dinghy.


And yes I recognize that people have and do use pretty much everything as dinghys. Heck I saw a yacht with a 40' Hatteras onboard as a dinghy. And I have seen boats that swim ashore, and use intertubes, all sorts of things. But just because something can be pressed into service doesn't mean it is the best tool for the job.

For me the extra money spent on a boat I can rely on, and will have for years is a easy decision. Because going from a boat that plans on using a dinghy to get to shore, back to a swim aboard (I did this thanks to a ripped out bottom) really sucks.


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

Guys,
Thanks for the enormous effort here. We may need to turn this thread into a book "bl%$#y dinghies" or similar......

This really has helped me in a way I had not expected. It has convinced me I should really slow this process down.

This is a complicated and potentially very expensive decision. We are going to keep the boat in a slip for the first year anyway, and only cruising locally (Maine) with the goal of getting more adventurous next year and going cruising long term the year after. So - we are going to start ultra-minimalist low cost and simple, maybe even a second hand rowboat only (we have a life raft as well  ).

That way we can work out what we really need, what will fit on the boat and how we are going to handle it before we spend a bunch of money that might be going in the wrong direction.

Spending deferred is always good - more electronics needed?.......


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Stumble said:


> To me this breaks down into a few separate issues. The first is
> 
> 1) where you are going to store any dinghy. Of any type. If you want to put it on the bow, there are some real hurdles you have to address to do this reasonably well. First is how to get it out of the water. The normal answer here is to use a spinnaker halyard and winch to pull it up, swing it onto the deck, and then manhandle it into a set of fixed chocks mounted to the bow. Even wi a small light boat this is not an easy operation, and is almost impossible to do in strong winds, without a significant number of hands. Yes it is possible and I have done it, but it is a pain.
> 
> ...


One of the advantages of the HPIB is you can throw it down below on passages. We did. Getting the thing to deflate was never a problem. Getting it to hold air was. Hehe!

To the OP:

I have a 10'2 Avon HPIB in SW Florida. You can buy it if you want. I will even sell you the 6hp engine. I just had it overhauled (a recurring problem on those 4 strokes, btw). You can get out cheap and see if you like HPIB's. It needs some glue work, but that is not that expensive. I think it still holds air. There is a nice gash in the bottom (patched) where a coral head caught it. I really wasn't joking about that.

This is not a sales gimmick because I really couldn't care less about that boat and keep for the kids to screw around on. You keep that boat for 12 months cruising and you will be on here telling me about your new RIB. Or maybe not??

Serious offer. I just think it is a mistake.

Brian


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Vasco said:


>


Hey Rick,

I know you photoshopped that tender! No way there's not at least one patch!?

Brian


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

GrahamO said:


> Guys,
> Thanks for the enormous effort here. We may need to turn this thread into a book "bl%$#y dinghies" or similar......
> 
> This really has helped me in a way I had not expected. It has convinced me I should really slow this process down.
> ...


Graham,

It's all good and all in good fun. You didn't actually expect us to all agree, did you?!?? Don't ever take anything on one of the threads here to heart or you will hate the internet. Good luck in your choice. Look forward to seeing you down here.

Brian


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

All the dinghys at the dinghy dock in the photo shows a "Poll of choice",- 'sure are a lot of RIB's. I've have a 5hp 4stroke on my Carribe 10L so I'm never on a plane. 'not really very heavy without the double hull. I have big stainless steel 2.5" diameter davits whipped up in a friends garage for zero bucks beyond the raw stock pipe. For me it's all a choice of stability and capacity. I can put two bicycles, laundry and groceries aboard with my wife and dog and myself and I can perch my 200lbs on the edge when it's empty. I think this is why you see so many RIB's at the dinghy docks, but there's nothing wrong with other choices that fit other's needs!


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Hey Rick,
> 
> I know you photoshopped that tender! No way there's not at least one patch!?
> 
> Brian


Eight seasons in the Bahamas and the AB still looks new. No patches, I might get around to cleaning the bottom one day. I sold the ten year old Yamaha this season and got a brand new one. Same 15hp 2 stroke. The old one was getting a bit tired and would not get us on the plane with two passengers (about 360 lbs.) and 4 jugs of water (another 250 odd pounds). The old ob didn't owe us anything, no service during the ten years except to change the plugs every other year or so. The guy who bought the old one said the bottom gear lube was a bit black. 

Here's a pic with the new motor. No Southport Raw Bar bumper stickers on it.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Vasco said:


> Eight seasons in the Bahamas and the AB still looks new. No patches, I might get around to cleaning the bottom one day. I sold the ten year old Yamaha this season and got a brand new one. Same 15hp 2 stroke. The old one was getting a bit tired and would not get us on the plane with two passengers (about 360 lbs.) and 4 jugs of water (another 250 odd pounds). The old ob didn't owe us anything, no service during the ten years except to change the plugs every other year or so. The guy who bought the old one said the bottom gear lube was a bit black.
> 
> Here's a pic with the new motor. No Southport Raw Bar bumper stickers on it.


Let my kids drive. You'll have a patch!

Are you keeping your boat in the Bahamas or FTL?

Brian


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Let my kids drive. You'll have a patch!
> 
> Are you keeping your boat in the Bahamas or FTL?
> 
> Brian


Boat gets hauled in FL. Here she is with the sunshade on ready for storage.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

I bought a new HP air floor Achilles a couple of years back. I wouldn't do it again. All the sand and grit from the beach ends up around the edges of the floor and just grind away at the floor and the tubes, and the whole boat needs re-inflating every couple of days. I see a RIB in my future, love the stability of an inflatable. Sure wish they still sold 2-strokes here, one of these days mine (8 hp bought used) is going to die and I don't want a 4 stroke.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

jrd22 said:


> I bought a new HP air floor Achilles a couple of years back. I wouldn't do it again. All the sand and grit from the beach ends up around the edges of the floor and just grind away at the floor and the tubes, and the whole boat needs re-inflating every couple of days. I see a RIB in my future, love the stability of an inflatable. Sure wish they still sold 2-strokes here, one of these days mine (8 hp bought used) is going to die and I don't want a 4 stroke.


Hey John,

I have heard there's a nice boat on the hard in Florida with a like-new tender (no patches) and a 15hp yamaha. I am sure the current owner wouldn't mind if you traded him!!

Just kidding of course.

Brian


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Cruisingdad said:


> It is not meant to start a internet argument,


And it didn't. CD, we can disagree, and it won't become a pissing match, at least from this side. I appreciate the points you made, and can see your point of view. You've BTDT and discovered what works for you. Me, I'm still not sold on a RIB, but that's me-


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## souljour2000 (Jul 8, 2008)

As for me..I'm not sold on any particular kind of dinghy...but hard dinghys have alot to offer IMHO.I think they all have their pros and cons though....Myself..I needed a dinghy and ran across this one a few years back for $125 with oars included on craigslist....needless to say I bought it and it's been through alot with me...nothing that a little fiberglass repair couldn't fix...I lost this boat in a storm in Cedar Key...was missing for three days...5 hp Tohatsu was still on her when I found it by the airport...she broke off a cleat in a midnight storm.
I added some teak slats for the seat (and some weight) but it rows really well...I row facing forward these days...using the rowlocks that most folks only use when setting an anchor. This way I can see each oncoming wave and adjust the angle of the little 8-footer with my weight and slide between or up and down waves,etc as needed to make way into chop a little easier...each wave is different...I can plane with my 4.5 hp Johnson but I have to add weight forward to keep the nose down (usually water jugs,anchor and some chain in the bow compartment). Even with the weight forward you are still leaning back uncomfortably in your seat so I may add a removable plastic "bucket" seat to help me counter that and support my back when planing. And since my mothership has only 4 1/2 draft..I am never so far from shore that I need alot of speed it seems...so I usually putter along at 6-7 knots off plane. She holds whatever you can stack in her and If I ever make or buy a sail rig...well..she's ready for it. I know this topic has been about RIBS,and so forth but I for one like the durability of a hard dinghy...to each his own...


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## Woodvet (May 5, 2012)

I'm not a fan of Kayaks, they have humiliated me more than once. I own a couple of Archilles though and along with my kayaks -one that's inflatable, they are all still around. Made of Hypalon (sic) they last longer. I have had the task of saving a Cape Dory on a reef off Belize once. That Archilles was so impressed I keep her at the ready with motor when I am traveling in hazard. 
That said, I am guessing with a pointed bow the Kaboat is less stable for pushing the big boys but looks great for getting through surf or making way through high seas. 
And then again I have a friend who still has his rigid GRP hull and he has pointed out to me how great it is as a wash machine /bathtub / butcher block and so on. Like all questions to do with boats there is always something more to be said.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

CD-hmm, uh, which yard did you say it was in, and is it locked up???


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## grandcapri (Jun 29, 2009)

Once witnessed a couple in west marine agonizing over how the dingy ladder was inflatible, I couldn't stand it any longer and went over and explained the ladder was not inflatible, it was to be used with an inflatible... I bought some bumpers and left the store.


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## souljour2000 (Jul 8, 2008)

bumpers?..You mean fenders!...But alot of us like bumpers too...


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

So - crunch time. We need a dink pretty soon and we are still not completely clear. The Bristol is tricky for on-deck storage. There is only 5' 6" between the mast and the traveller and storing foreward of the mast will cover the V berth hatch which is the only fire escape. This makes a hard dink problematic. We tried a Porta-bote but were not thrilled with stability or build quality. Where we are now is a SMALL aluminum RIB. Probably the AB8. This only needs a small OB. For Maine sailing we would either leave it on the mooring or tow it. Once we head south it would be davits for island hopping or deflated on deck for passage making.
Does this approach make sense? Amy i missing anything obvious? There really are no perfect solutions are there?

Thanks


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

GrahamO said:


> So - crunch time. We need a dink pretty soon and we are still not completely clear. The Bristol is tricky for on-deck storage. There is only 5' 6" between the mast and the traveller and storing foreward of the mast will cover the V berth hatch which is the only fire escape. This makes a hard dink problematic. We tried a Porta-bote but were not thrilled with stability or build quality. Where we are now is a SMALL aluminum RIB. Probably the AB8. This only needs a small OB. For Maine sailing we would either leave it on the mooring or tow it. Once we head south it would be davits for island hopping or deflated on deck for passage making.
> Does this approach make sense? Amy i missing anything obvious? There really are no perfect solutions are there?
> 
> Thanks


Closest thing to a perfect solution to me is an Avon Lite, which is a hard bottom inflatable with a folding transom... That feature makes all the difference, my tender stows in a fairly low-profile package up forward on my 30-footer... I've tried just about every variety of tender over the years, and have found the hardbottom with the folding transom to be the best solution, by far...










Hard dinks involve way too much drama, IMHO, and only really work for coastal/local cruising where you'll be towing them all the time... I took a beautiful nesting Spindrift south one winter, and came to quickly detest the damn thing. Minimum payload, very wet ride, incredible PITA to bring back aboard and stow, and even nested, represented a gigantic ugly box on my foredeck which could have spelled real trouble with with a boarding sea sweeping the deck... Hell, it probably would have been better just to cruise with the bow section, alone... (grin)










I'm of a different mind than most regarding power, I'd suggest going smaller and slower, as opposed to larger and faster... My little 2 Hp Honda can be lifted aboard with one hand, and stows easily in the lazarette of even a boat as small as mine. That all translates to less Crap on the Back, no need for engine hoisting davits and all the other gear related to SUV dinghies... I think "range" is one of the most overrated features in a tender anyway, and once you get out in the boonies, lots of folks appear to disregard the notion that you really shouldn't be venturing too much further away from the mother ship than you'd care to row back, anyway... But, these days, that's probably just me...



Stumble874171 said:


> Finally carry the biggest boat you possibly can.


Uhhh, within reason, of course... (grin)


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> We had a lot of conflicting needs, but we ended up with the best compromise we could find. We wanted stable (for small kids), rowable, sailable, able to mount a small OB and most of all abusable. We also were attracted to the "proactive liferaft" component of our choice, the Portland Pudgy.
> 
> Portland Pudgy safety dinghy, inflatable boat, or fiberglass dinghy?
> 
> ...


Damn, a hard dinghy weighing 130 lbs empty, you're a far braver (not to mention stronger) man than I... (grin)

Just curious, how do you stow that thing aboard?


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## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

Hi Graham -
The Bristol is a beautiful boat. You're a lucky guy! I largely share the views expressed by CD and CCrider, both of whom have more experience than me, but my budget might be more in line with yours so I thought I'd chime in. Over the past year I have used a couple of different dinks with my Cape Dory 330 in a range of waters from the Chesapeake Bay to the ICW to the Bahamas and a few multi-day offshore trips. The 8'6" Mercury RIB (PVC because it was cheap at $900) which I have now has been, by far, the best solution. It was inexpensive, it planes with 2 people and an 8hp 2 stroke, tows well, rows better than expected, takes much more of a beating than any soft bottom (and the beating is inevitable). It is not perfect - I have lousy storage options with a windvane on the stern I can't use davits and since I have a staysail boom on the foredeck it can't go there either. So, by default, it stores between the mast and the traveller. Raising, lowering (via halyard) and storing or inflating it is not fun, but I have managed it myself in winds up to 20knots. In the bahamas, I would have been miserable without a planing dink and the ability to cover distances and also power through chop. This very affordable RIB did the job. Nothing is perfect: If I was sailing different waters, perhaps a nesting strip plank would work and be fun to row. If I had a bigger boat and could fit it, a fat high-end RIB with a deeper V and bigger tubes sure would be a nice luxury. But this was a good compromise for us at a price point which was managable. Most importantly, it fit on the boat!
Good luck! be sure to tell us what you decide on and how it works out.
Matt


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## Wappoo (Apr 30, 2012)

Hum...my 2 cents...over the last 10 years we have cruised the east coast Maine to Acklins in the Bahamas and have met a lot of first time cruisers. Almost everyone has said they wished they had a bigger dink...imagine you and your wife riding with the freshly washed laundry across GT harbor in a 3' chop with 20 kts on the nose...get the biggest one you can afford, used or new...and you may save your marriage....we are on our 2nd AB rib. Good luck and stay dry.


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## Paddyd (Jun 14, 2012)

What is the material ?
thickness? 
MDA sheets ?
the process FEMA for production?
actual production at ? and not placard placement ?
glue and stick or ?
glue manufacturer ?
curing process?
state side repair facility?
all uv PVC test data ?
define the warrenty ?
material used ?
componet content ?

tks paddy


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

AB 8 UL Rigid Hull Inflatable (RIB) 8' 4", Gray Hypalon, 2012



Paddyd said:


> What is the material ?
> thickness?
> MDA sheets ?
> the process FEMA for production?
> ...


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Graham,

That looks like a nice one. But as I said before go bigger if you can. For the $250 I would probably go up to the 9', and if I could swing it I'd go for the 10'. But boating is all about trade-offs not ideals.


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

The issue is not cost. It is haul weight, space on deck, outboard size and weight, all that practical stuff. It feels at the moment that, given that 90% of the time there will be just the two of us, the clear benefits of increased dinghy size don't outweigh the downsides. We could well be wrong.....


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Happen to have any friends with dinghys you could borrow for a couple of weekends? Before heading to the islands, try living with one for a few weeks, and use it at least once to load food, water, and fuel for the boat. If possible try and borrow a bigger one and do the same thing. Also take a nice day and go head out into some chop on the different sized ones.


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## Wappoo (Apr 30, 2012)

Here is a suggestion for the weight ting....get a Milwaukee right angle drill with a winch bit....we call ours the 'teenager'...can send any average size man to the top of the mast, immediately 'electrophizes' (sp?) every winch on your boat...check e-Bay and be sure to get the newest model..the older ones came with NiCads but could be changed over to NiMH...as we get older we need every bit of help we can find...


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

What a great idea! I just happen to have one of those gathering dust in the basement. I will dig it out. Where on earth do you buy a 'winch bit'?


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## Wappoo (Apr 30, 2012)

Winch bits used to be advertised in the back of several of the sailing mags...Cruising World, etc.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Wappoo said:


> Here is a suggestion for the weight ting....get a Milwaukee right angle drill with a winch bit....we call ours the 'teenager'...can send any average size man to the top of the mast, immediately 'electrophizes' (sp?) every winch on your boat...check e-Bay and be sure to get the newest model..the older ones came with NiCads but could be changed over to NiMH...as we get older we need every bit of help we can find...


Another option for those like me who like to keep it simple, is to configure a 2:1 spinnaker halyard run through a ratchet block at the base of the mast, instead... This arrangement will soon prove its utility in a variety of ways, not the least of which can be as a MOB hoisting device, always at the ready...

With a 2:1 halyard, I can easily manage to get my tender back on deck by myself... Proponents of much larger dinghies might have difficulty doing so, and I'm a big believer in the notion that most essential tasks aboard a typical Mom & Pop cruising boat (reefing, anchoring, dinghy and engine deployment and retrieval, and so on) should be able to be managed by either crewmember, unassisted either by their partner, or the flow of electrons... But, hey, that's just me, and relatively few cruisers I see out there today subscribe to such a notion... (grin)

I also think you really want a setup in place that allows you to easily hoist your tender clear of the water at night, or when not in use... In some places this will be done for security, but it's always a good idea anyway, certainly keeps the bottom cleaner. Again, with a 2:1 halyard, I can hoist my tender with engine and all the usual gear it carries unassisted, something I doubt many of us could easily manage alone with the sort of much larger, heavier overall boat and motor package that some are advocating...


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

Jon,
That pretty much sums up our philosophy. Our goal is that, to the extent possible, either of us should be able to handle any requirement of cruising (although I suspect maintaining the engine will be a special case.....). We have talked this over a lot and concluded that the loss of some dinghy luxury is a price we are willing to pay.

Graham


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

So.....
Nothing stays the same for long. We have managed to locate a mooring 'near' home but it is a fair run over a tidal river so that narrow our choices. Where we are at the moment is an Achilles HB-270FX with a Tohatsu 6hp outboard.

Comments, warnings, experience very much appreciated.

Thanks


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

JonEisberg said:


> Damn, a hard dinghy weighing 130 lbs empty, you're a far braver (not to mention stronger) man than I... (grin)
> 
> Just curious, how do you stow that thing aboard?


Davits while coastal, and cabintop under the main boom when offshore. Since 95% of time on even a circumnavigation will still be coastal cruising, it lives on davits most of the time and the weight isn't an issue. We also hoist it on the davits every night, so it doesn't bump the hull and wake us and so that we're ready to go if we need/want to. Having easy to use davits is a really nice luxury that took me quite a while to get right (I was too cheap to have some built by someone else)

Also, we NEVER tow a dinghy, too many bad experiences on my previous boat.

We bought ours used from a friend who was getting out of boating. Saves us the price (and stowage space) of an inflatable life raft and I feel much safer if we ever did have to use it. It's also pretty fun to sail...

MedSailor


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

JonEisberg said:


> Another option for those like me who like to keep it simple, is to configure a 2:1 spinnaker halyard run through a ratchet block at the base of the mast, instead... This arrangement will soon prove its utility in a variety of ways, not the least of which can be as a MOB hoisting device, always at the ready...


This sounds like a great idea, but I honestly can't picture it. In order to create a 2:1 system one of the pulleys has to be free to move closer to the other (fixed) one. If you've got a pulley at the top of the mast, and a pulley fixed at the base of the mast, you don't have any purchase at all, instead you've just created friction by running your lines through more pulleys.

If the bottom pulley moves, then it will be going up the mast away from you and won't be easy to continue to pull on right?

What am I missing?

MedSailor


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> > Originally Posted by JonEisberg
> > Another option for those like me who like to keep it simple, is to configure a 2:1 spinnaker halyard run through a ratchet block at the base of the mast, instead... This arrangement will soon prove its utility in a variety of ways, not the least of which can be as a MOB hoisting device, always at the ready...
> 
> 
> ...


Here's a pic of the halyard shackle (the "end" of the halyard, in effect) stowed at deck level, hope this helps...










Fixed on the spinnaker crane at the masthead, is a similar block with a becket... The halyard runs from that becket, down to the block pictured with the shackle, back up to the masthead, then down to the ratchet at the base of the mast...

Primary rationale for having a 2:1 halyard is to be able to sufficiently tension the halyard for use with a Code 0... But, as mentioned, once in place, such a halyard has a LOT of other very useful applications...


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

JonEisberg said:


> Here's a pic of the halyard shackle (the "end" of the halyard, in effect) stowed at deck level, hope this helps...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes that does help! Me likey..... Me likey very much.....

So the rope goes from the masthead block becket (spliced I presume) down the the block in the photo, then back up to the pulley part of the block at the masthead and then back down to the deck yes?

Is the ratcheting block you speak of the one on the masthead crane or the one at deck level?

Since it's all external, how to you keep it from banging against the mast?

I've never used a ratcheting block myself. Do they make it possible to hoist a wet person aboard with only 2:1 purchase without taking it to a winch?

Thanks!
MedSailor


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

GrahamO said:


> So.....
> Nothing stays the same for long. We have managed to locate a mooring 'near' home but it is a fair run over a tidal river so that narrow our choices. Where we are at the moment is an Achilles HB-270FX with a Tohatsu 6hp outboard.
> 
> Comments, warnings, experience very much appreciated.
> ...


I like this tender better only because it can take a larger motor. At that weight and legth, you will plan out with a 6. I know that because I had a 10'2 HPIB Avon (still do) and a Mercury 6 hp 4 stroke that would plane.

I would not buy the 6hp motor. If I am not mistaken, it is exactly the same 4 stroke that is in the Mercury. I think Taihatsu builds all the 4 strokes for all the manufacturers (except Honda) under 15hp.... at least that is my understanding and excuse me if I am wrong.

THe Mercury 6hp 4 stroke has ben very unreliable to us. It is rebuilt EVERY year, sometimes twice. It does not perform well even when running. The 8 is a better choice... or better than that, start shopping for a 2 stroke. You will get a lot more bang for the buck and a engine that is a lot lighter. Since weight is your primary concern, that makes sense. I would also put the largest 2 stroke allowed (8 in your example). Worst case scenario, you don't use the full 8. Better to have it and not need it, etc.

All in all, I like your choice. I really like that aluminum one too (AB). We almost got that instead of the Walker Bay Genesis.

Brian

PS Maybe you would not have the same issues with the 6 as we did. Just giving our experiences.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> Yes that does help! Me likey..... Me likey very much.....
> 
> So the rope goes from the masthead block becket (spliced I presume) down the the block in the photo, then back up to the pulley part of the block at the masthead and then back down to the deck yes?
> 
> ...


The ratchet is at deck level...

The halyard goes back inside the mast a few feet below the masthead crane, and exits again a few feet above above the deck... keeping the rest stowed - as pictured - outboard, away from the mast, there's no halyard slapping to contend with...

A ratchet won't increase your purchase, it only helps control any tendency towards "slippage"... Really handy when you're doing something such as lowering a tender overboard, singlehanded... Whether a 2:1 will hoist a "wet person" would depend on the size of said person, I suppose - it will enable me to hoist the only other person I routinely sail with that I care about bringing back aboard, however... (grin)

Just in case, I'd recommend having a 5:1 or 6:1 purchase, extendable to 6 feet or so, pre-rigged with snap shackles or asymetric hooks always at the ready for such eventualities, every boat should have one, IMHO...


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

This was a great thread...

Plusses and minusses of several options discussed, and it didn't degenerate into a pi$$ing contest! 

Just to add to the mix, here is what I did;

WM had a "special" sale on their SB-275 (<$750).






I like it in that it has a hard floor, yet I can roll it up into about a 2'x3'x4' 75lb package. I can also get it, up onto a plane with my Merc 3.5HP 2 stroke. I have had 3 people aboard no problem, and two are no problem in moderate chop.

Assembly and inflating it is a pain, however. I have been keeping it assembled, but deflated, in the bed of my pickup, under the tonneau cover. When cruising, I tow it inflated with the OB on the stern rail (I love that the motor weighs 30lb WITH a full tank of fuel ).

In total I have <$1500 invested in the dink & motor.


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## GrahamO (Apr 4, 2012)

So,
In the end we did get the Achilles HB270 LX folding transom RIB. We may end up regretting the size but at the moment it feels fine. It 'happily' carries my wife, myself, our 270lb nephew and some gear and it planes easily with just me onboard at half throttle (still running in the OB).

The folding transom is great. It packs down really flat (even after inflation...) and goes comfortably on the front deck without blocking the front hatch. We sailed back from Westport Pt. with it mounted there and it was no trouble at all. I know... The life raft is not going to work too well from under it but I'm not at all convinced a life raft makes sense for coastal cruising anyway so it might be coming off until we do some 'serious' voyaging and I see davits in my future for coastal stuff.

Not sure about the boat bag. It keeps the RIB somewhat protected but it is a royal PITA, particularly if there is some wind.

Thanks for all your great input and advice and apologies to those we ignored......



















Graham


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## souljour2000 (Jul 8, 2008)

In your case I would start with an achilles or the like in the 10-foot range with 15 hp outboard...and then when finally underway cruisng I would find an 8-foot hardshell dinghy and a 3.5 merc or the like for it....and put it on the foredeck...and have the achilles folded away or towed when you get cruising and for use when you arrive where you plan to be awhile...a good small hard dinghy is very useful...durable...and rows well and easily....great for setting anchors/general utility...the achilles is faster...tows well....and a great boat for getting in from far-out anchorages quickly...but they row like dogs...having the extra little hard dinghy on foredeck with it's own small motor would be a great addition to the achilles-type if I were you...just my take..


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