# Why do you race



## ABH3 Boyer (Sep 27, 2012)

I have owned a sailboat for 4 years now and absolutely love it. My season is about 5 months long and on average I go out twice a week. A friend of mine had the opportunity to tag along in a few races while working out of town and now continues to tell me that I should get into racing. My answer is always Why. I enjoy myself on my own schedule and don't see the benefit in racing. Am I missing something?


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Racing offers the possibility of learning how to sail well, at a fast pace. A steep learning curve.

If that's not your thing, then carry on. It's not for everyone.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

There is a thread that discusses the pros-cons of racing but it's ultimately about how you want to use your boat. 

For many including myself, racing will teach "sailing" and some aspects of seamanship that won't come as readily when "cruising". I've found it to be quite true that one doesn't really know how to "sail" until they've raced. 

Often times, so much of our discussion is more about "boating" than actually "sailing". When we look at the SailNet threads, this appears to be true... There isn't a lot about actually sailing but a plethora of stuff about keels, chart plotters, sewing and such. None of that is bad, just where the emphasis appears to lie. 

So it just comes down to what one wants from a boat. It's all good...your boat, your time, use them as you will.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

I don't think you will find a better way to get better at sailing and boat handling.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

I love to race, and have been doing it for over 40 years without tiring of it. I love the competition of it, the challenge to get the best performance out of the boat, and the opportunity to learn new sail handling and sail trimming techniques. Most of the people who don't like to race seem to take it all too seriously, or to be the victims of some skipper who takes it too seriously. I never yell at or insult crew, and have no respect for anyone who does. Racing inspires creativity in sailing. The objective is to get around the race course in the shortest amount of time, and a racer is on a constant search for creative ideas on how to either shorten the distance around the course, or to increase boat speed, and how to get ahead of the other boats that are trying to prevent you from doing so. The search for those things makes racing an intriguing puzzle. Racing isn't an athletic sport. It's a cerebral sport. It matters little whether you are bulging with muscles. It matters alot that you have a facile mind.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

I did a lot of crewing in week night races in my 20s as a way to get on the water, and one of the guys I raced with was pretty relaxed and it was more about having fun, which helped. I really had zero interest in the actual race itself and had to chuckle at some of the ridiculous people out there on the course. Now that I have my own boat, I can't see ever racing again as it's just not my thing. There's too many uptight yelling stressed out types that sorta the whole thing seem silly.


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## aelkin (Feb 3, 2013)

ABH3;
Why race? Lots of reasons:
1. I'm competitive, in almost every avenue of my life. I'm too old to play volleyball, football, and some of the other pastimes I used to compete in at the level I wanted to.
2. It's challenging - I was out last week with a skipper that told me he looked at it like 'chess on the water'. You have a moderate physical element, plus a complex (and of varying scale of complexity, depending how tough you want to make it on yourself...) mental element.
3. It forces you to expand your comfort zone on the water. I would never have considered taking my boat out in 20knots on Lake Erie before having been 'forced' by a looming race deadline - and am now thoroughly comfortable with weather much heavier than that.
4. I enjoy the team-building element of getting a crew of varying ages and skill levels, and working together to make the boat perform.
5. Camaraderie - Most good racing fleets will rendezvous afterwards, to share stories, discuss decisions made on the course, and usually just hang out and shoot the breeze. A person can learn a lot from this.

If NONE of these items interest you, then by all means, carry on! 
If one or more DOES interest you, then try dipping just one toe in the racing pool. Make it clear in your club/marina that you'd like to try crewing. ask around about skippers, and try to find a boat that is moderately successful, and whose skipper is NOT a yeller. (nothing spoils racing more quickly than being made to feel ashamed or belittled, and has no place in club racing...)

You decide where you want to go after that.

Have fun!!

Andy


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## jfdubu (Jul 18, 2002)

I race in beer can series and a few weekend races. I enjoy the competitive nature both in in sailing against other boats and against myself. Chances are if one doesn't have some competitive sprit they wouldn't enjoy racing. As other have said you'd be hard pressed to find a better way to learn true sailing and boat handling skills. I know racing has certainly taught me to be a better sailor and I'm far from finished learning For instances, with my former boat I seldom fished less than second and usually first. Last night in my new (to me) faster boat got my clock cleaned. I have a lot to learn to sail the new boat fast.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

> Racing isn't an athletic sport. It's a cerebral sport. It matters little whether you are bulging with muscles. It matters alot that you have a facile mind.


I agree and disagree. You must not remember being a grinder short tacking. It can be brutal and I don't think I am all that weak or I wouldn't be asked to do it.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

If you notice everybody's between 14 and 92 is HAPPY and we just don't do things especially racing with grumpy yellers

Quote:
Racing isn't an athletic sport. It's a cerebral sport. It matters little whether you are bulging with muscles. It matters alot that you have a facile mind.

You must not do much bow work


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I don't race and have a book and knotmeter to teach me how to sail better.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

> You must not do much bow work


I find the bow work to be more cardio then muscle.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

You either love it or you don't. I like single-handed and short-handed races. This past weekend, I sailed over to Richmond Yacht Club where the single-handed TransPac boats were getting inspected. I toured and spoke to the skippers of an Islander 36, a Garcia Passoa 47, and a Wilderness 30, that have their boats all set up for not just single-handing, but for safety and self-reliance in a big ocean. We talked electric, and windvanes, and sails, and engines, and autopilots, and so much more for hours. It was great. Could I be part of this group if I wasn't racing? I would guess, yes, because they're so inviting to everyone who wants to learn how to be a better sailor. This is why I love racing.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

> I don't race and have a book and knotmeter to teach me how to sail better.


Think a VMG instrument might teach you more.


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## appick (Jan 20, 2014)

I race because the other guy and me are on the same tack... 

I have an old boat, not particularly fast and I usually finish close to last acrossed the line. But my PHRF is 218 so it all evens out in the wash I guess. That being said I don't do alot of weekday races, although I have crewed in the past. I'm more of a weekend racer and distance races. Here in West Michigan the sailing season is short and it's fun for me and my friends to do a cross lake race. We get to hang out with good friends from other boats and meet new ones. Most importantly we look and listen, and learn how to do things better and safer ect. 

Still with my boat and time I doubt I'll ever do weekday races with my boat. Too much time and energy.


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## benjamen (Jun 21, 2012)

I am new to sailing and do not yet own a boat.

For me racing lets me learn how to sail better. It also exposes me to the pros and cons of more boats ahead of my first boat purchase.


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## theonecalledtom (Jan 2, 2008)

ScottUK said:


> Think a VMG instrument might teach you more.


*Edit - rereading I see I misunderstood Scott's meaning, but I'll leave the tirade below in-tack(t). He's right, VMG will tell you more than a knotmeter, and combining the both is awesome.

Not true. Having started racing properly about six months ago my skill set has increased dramatically, with years of progress yet to be made.

VMG at any given moment does not equate to best average VMG to a position. You need to account for current (potentially in the future), wind shifts, wind patches etc. To do this you get better at reading the water surface, reading the meaning behind other boats behaviors, the meaning of tells like clouds, flags and smoke stacks.

As well as that in racing each maneuver needs to be executed as precisely as possible and is easily measured against other boats sailing near you. Tack at the same time as a boat you are neck and neck with tacks and get rolled by them and you know they did a better job. Launch the spinnaker a minute later than everyone else and see the yards lost. You are forced to prepare the boat better, keep things organized, minimize mistakes.

Had to bear down to get to the top mark? You know you overstood the layline and lost ground, suddenly you start getting better at knowing how close to the wind you can sail and visually judging that relative to the current wind. You get better at knowing simple things like the true wind direction, at all times.

You're also going to expand your sailing envelope - going to push flying the spinnaker in stronger winds (hopefully with experience needed on board to help you out), not going to fire up the motor you're going to learn how to make the boat move in lighter air than it seems possible to move in.

VMG is useful, it is something I've used for years, but only sporadically. Seeing other boats on the water nearby, heading the same way is a far more visceral experience.

Lastly, find the right boat (I hope Kraken is one of those boats) and you will have fun, without angry screaming. Its teamwork if you want it, or you vs your mates. Its a bunch of people who love the same thing in the same place at the same time helping each other improve and figuring out a really complicated thing.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

ScottUK said:


> I agree and disagree. You must not remember being a grinder short tacking. It can be brutal and I don't think I am all that weak or I wouldn't be asked to do it.


 Grinding can be and generally is brutal, but it doesn't have to be. To take most of the physicality out of it, the helmsman and release person have to work in coordination with the tailer-grinder, and most of them don't. That's mostly because they haven't really analyzed the process. Even a weak person can tail an unloaded line. Tailing a line only requires hard grinding after the line has come under load. The trick to tailing a line without grinding the winch until you become arm-weary is to get the line in before it comes under load. That means that the tailer-grinder has a limited amount of time in which to bring in a given length of line. If the release person or the helmsman reduces the amount of time that the tailer-grinder has to get the job done, then he'll have to resort to the winch handle to get it in the rest of the way. A common way that the release person can reduce the time available to the tailer-grinder is to backwind the jib. The longer he holds the jib, the less time the tailer has to haul in all the sheet. (The wind will usually be enough to bring the jib across during a tack, but, if the jib hangs up, then have a crew member walk it across. Backwinding the jib is usually unnecessary, and it uses up the limited amount of time that the tailer has to get his line pulled in.) If the helmsman turns the boat too quickly, he will use up some of the tailer's precious time. If the helmsman oversteers the boat through the turn, he loads up the sail, and the only way the grinder can get it trimmed is with hard grinding. A skilled helmsman will execute the turn at a speed that will permit the tailer enough time to get the unloaded sheet in, and he will terminate the turn before the sail becomes heavily loaded.

Tailing and grinding doesn't have to be nearly so physical.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

I race because it's fun!
I race because I usually learn how awful a sailor I really am.
I race because it's fun!
and it's fun.
Not to mention... um it's fun.

Sorry that's more of an inside joke. Lemme let you know what I mean. I am told our sail club is a "fun club." This is usually in reference when we work on improving courses, or try to use a fair application of the handicapped rating rules we use. Someone tells me its a "fun club," implying that racing isn't fun, or the application of fair rules aren't fun, or perhaps the uneven application is more "fun," honestly I am not sure which.

Reality is I find myself trying hard to figure out what the faster guy is doing that I am not... which makes this hard, because it's handicapped racing, and that isn't really all there is to it. 

Strategy is as much a part of racing as ANY game can give. The more avid the sailors you are with, the more like chess, and less like NASCAR it'll be (please don't get on me about how NASCAR is also a head game, before you do read my first sentence again of this paragraph).

Also we don't have BIG WATER on our little puddle, so the only way to challenge us, landlocked as we are, is to race.


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## jmandre (Dec 13, 2013)

For myself, I am much more about melding machine and myself than I am about competition. I also still avidly trail ride motorcycles (at age 46), but even though on a trail I'm probably faster than the average bear, I do not find myself attracted to competing with others. I also have friends that still ride, and for them the only reason is to compete. The act of operating the machine (boat or bike) has different personal meaning to me. As some of the others have said, there are few better ways to hone skill-sets than by racing. And if thats your thing, I have no criticisms at all. But it's all about the individual. For myself, I feel no compulsion to prove myself against anything other than Mother Nature. I'm much more about the Zen rather than the competition.


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## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

I race to stay sharp when I'm not! I'm out on a variety of boats every week with people that I've just met. Every once in awhile someone will ask how high a boat will point or how fast it is on a reach. It's fun to power up a boat and show them what it can do if trimmed correctly.


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## Shockwave (Feb 4, 2014)

It kind of depends on the boat. The foot of our heavy one is 40 foot long, it weighs 150~200 pounds. It can be physically challenging with full crew of grown men.



Sailormon6 said:


> Grinding can be and generally is brutal, but it doesn't have to be. To take most of the physicality out of it, the helmsman and release person have to work in coordination with the tailer-grinder, and most of them don't. That's mostly because they haven't really analyzed the process. Even a weak person can tail an unloaded line. Tailing a line only requires hard grinding after the line has come under load. The trick to tailing a line without grinding the winch until you become arm-weary is to get the line in before it comes under load. That means that the tailer-grinder has a limited amount of time in which to bring in a given length of line. If the release person or the helmsman reduces the amount of time that the tailer-grinder has to get the job done, then he'll have to resort to the winch handle to get it in the rest of the way. A common way that the release person can reduce the time available to the tailer-grinder is to backwind the jib. The longer he holds the jib, the less time the tailer has to haul in all the sheet. (The wind will usually be enough to bring the jib across during a tack, but, if the jib hangs up, then have a crew member walk it across. Backwinding the jib is usually unnecessary, and it uses up the limited amount of time that the tailer has to get his line pulled in.) If the helmsman turns the boat too quickly, he will use up some of the tailer's precious time. If the helmsman oversteers the boat through the turn, he loads up the sail, and the only way the grinder can get it trimmed is with hard grinding. A skilled helmsman will execute the turn at a speed that will permit the tailer enough time to get the unloaded sheet in, and he will terminate the turn before the sail becomes heavily loaded.
> 
> Tailing and grinding doesn't have to be nearly so physical.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Well I race because the first one back gets the best choice of the cold beer!


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

some-days it is like this and



Some days not so much


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

Shockwave said:


> It kind of depends on the boat. The foot of our heavy one is 40 foot long, it weighs 150~200 pounds. It can be physically challenging with full crew of grown men.


Well, duh! What point are you trying to make by stating the obvious? A single weakling would probably have a hard time tacking an old J boat with a 150' mast. So what? That doesn't invalidate my point that a skilled, thinking helmsman and release person can make a tailer-grinder look like a pro, even though he lacks extraordinary physical strength. But, if you prefer an over-muscled brute to intelligence....

Re-read what I said in my earlier post. Do you get the point that it is much easier to tail an unloaded jibsheet than to tail and grind a loaded jibsheet?

Watch any video of the most skilled racing crews tacking a big boat. They tail the jibsheet when it is unloaded. The helmsman coordinates the turn so that the crew has enough time to tail in the jibsheet while it is still unloaded, and the helmsman doesn't turn the boat past closehauled, so that the grinder has to grind the jibsheet in under load. The helmsman stops the turn when the genoa is streaming aft, parallel to the gunwale, and he doesn't bear off and load up the genoa until the sheet has been fully tailed in. All the grinder has to do is to give it a couple of cranks to trim the sail for closehauled. Cooincidentally, that also happens to be just the right amount of fullness in the sail to permit the boat to accelerate back up to speed after the tack.


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## Shockwave (Feb 4, 2014)

That's some funny ****, can you straighten some of my winch handles the crew bent over? Have you ever tailed a 3/4" sheet over 80 foot as it's drug across a rig? Have you ever done an inside peel from a one to a three with 30 over the deck? It will tucker a crew, trust me. You, need strength, stamina and coordination regardless of how skilled every one aboard is.

So yes, strength requirements are boat dependent.



Sailormon6 said:


> Well, duh! What point are you trying to make by stating the obvious? A single weakling would probably have a hard time tacking an old J boat with a 150' mast. So what? That doesn't invalidate my point that a skilled, thinking helmsman and release person can make a tailer-grinder look like a pro, even though he lacks extraordinary physical strength. But, if you prefer an over-muscled brute to intelligence....
> 
> Re-read what I said in my earlier post. Do you get the point that it is much easier to tail an unloaded jibsheet than to tail and grind a loaded jibsheet?
> 
> Watch any video of the most skilled racing crews tacking a big boat. They tail the jibsheet when it is unloaded. The helmsman coordinates the turn so that the crew has enough time to tail in the jibsheet while it is still unloaded, and the helmsman doesn't turn the boat past closehauled, so that the grinder has to grind the jibsheet in under load. The helmsman stops the turn when the genoa is streaming aft, parallel to the gunwale, and he doesn't bear off and load up the genoa until the sheet has been fully tailed in. All the grinder has to do is to give it a couple of cranks to trim the sail for closehauled. Cooincidentally, that also happens to be just the right amount of fullness in the sail to permit the boat to accelerate back up to speed after the tack.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

Shockwave said:


> That's some funny ****, can you straighten some of my winch handles the crew bent over? Have you ever tailed a 3/4" sheet over 80 foot as it's drug across a rig? Have you ever done an inside peel from a one to a three with 30 over the deck? It will tucker a crew, trust me. You, need strength, stamina and coordination regardless of how skilled every one aboard is.
> 
> So yes, strength requirements are boat dependent.


I don't know why you are persisting in arguing with me when I have agreed with you, but I'm checking out of this argument.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

I race because...

...it's more fun than cruising(*) on Port Phillip. 


* = Around here "Cruising" usually means rushing headlong for hours along a shallow lee-shore from one sheltered breakwater to another whilst watching the next storm heading straight for you and knowing you have no place to go. "Racing" means enduring only an hour or two of the same crappy weather before heading back to the bar and a warm shower.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

> Tailing and grinding doesn't have to be nearly so physical.


Well aware of all your points as they are fairly basic to racing and sailing. The point I had made is short tacking can be brutal thus very physical.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

> But, if you prefer an over-muscled brute to intelligence....


Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?

If the racing was not physical I got to wonder why all the top teams work out at the gym so much? Why are so many of the grinders beefy boys? Why most racers at the elite level are in a certain age group?


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## weinie (Jun 21, 2008)

I crew on a race boat for a few reasons:

1. There's no way I'm gonna motivate myself to go on a sail on my own boat when the weather's crappy and its getting dark out, even though I know I'm most likely going to enjoy myself anyway.

2. Sometimes I just don't want to deal with my own boat. If something breaks on the boat I crew on, it's no longer my headache after we're back at the dock. Plus, I won't have "docking anxiety" if the wind picks up to 20knts or more in the wrong direction.

3. You learn so much, even just subconsciously, by racing.

4. It's just FUN!!! I've been on some pretty close upwind duels recently and its GREAT!!!!


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## ovb (Feb 15, 2012)

I have been racing on opb's for about 10 years and I am beginning to burn out...my competitive nature that at first was high now is all but gone and it seems that the rest of our crew feels the same....2 weeks ago we took the bullet and had 4 lengths on the second place boat and last week we voted on just going for a boat ride....we cracked open some beers and watched the cluster at the leeward mark....racers don't like to sail....its boat speed and sail trim all the time....


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

Wednesday nights a group of geriatric sailors, mostly cruisers, get on the club 420's and beat each other up around the marks. People get wet, boat's overturn, shouts of starboard, room, between friendly insults....it's amongst the funniest most entertaining events I've ever been involved in. And that's just at the YC bar 

Arthritis is not compatible with roll tacking, trust me on this.

Does it make you a better sailor? Who cares! Do we take it seriously? We're laughing at each other too hard to tell. 

Winner buys.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

ovb said:


> I have been racing on opb's for about 10 years and I am beginning to burn out...my competitive nature that at first was high now is all but gone and it seems that the rest of our crew feels the same....2 weeks ago we took the bullet and had 4 lengths on the second place boat and last week we voted on just going for a boat ride....we cracked open some beers and watched the cluster at the leeward mark....*racers don't like to sail....its boat speed and sail trim all the time....*


It is true, that frequent racers sometimes lack the ability to unwind, and simply enjoy a daysail without trying to wring that last .0033 kts out of the boat.

I do not have that problem at all.

- When I race, I'm in it 100%.
- When I day sail, sometimes I do it with the intention of experimenting to find faster ways to sail, or more efficient tricks. Sometimes it's just for pleasure and I put Ray-Ray on the tiller and just watch the land slide by.
- When I cruise, it's all about visiting new places by boat, and exploring the town or the area, not about sail trim, and not about busting my cruising partner's ass about sail trim and that last .005 knots of boat speed.

I do use techniques learned from racing to keep my boat moving where others would give up and use the engine. I do use techniques from racing to reduce the distance I might have to sail, in order to arrive before sundown or before inclement weather arrives.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

BubbleheadMd said:


> I do use techniques learned from racing to keep my boat moving where others would give up and use the engine. I do use techniques from racing to reduce the distance I might have to sail, in order to arrive before sundown or before inclement weather arrives.


Good point.

Starting the engine isn't an option whilst racing, so you learn to drive the boat under sails alone under all kinds of interesting conditions that no normal person would chose to go out in. As a result, when you're out cruising and find yourself battling to windward off a lee shore, you're more likely to know how to do that successfully and in relative comfort (having done it countless times in race mode) than the guy who instinctively drops all sail as the wind comes on the nose, starts his engine, has it fail on him due to fuel blockage from the crud stirred up in his tanks, and winds up on the beach... and in the local newspaper.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

To expand on the seamanship aspect a bit, racing is for the most part experienced in whatever conditions prevail. So in general, we move out of our comfort zones regularly. And that's always good. 

In one overnight race, we had everything from dead calm to 3 squalls. And I'm far more comfortable sailing all night upwind on a double reef in 25+ kts.


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

I pay a lot of money for my sailboat. So, its a way to use the boat and get something for that investment. That, and its fun.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

Sabreman said:


> In one overnight race, we had everything from dead calm to 3 squalls. And I'm far more comfortable sailing all night upwind on a double reef in 25+ kts.


+1. As a newbie, the confidence factor has increased exponentially because I sometimes race in uncomfortable (but still safe) conditions that I wouldn't otherwise go out in with friends -- rain all day and I find out how well my foulies hold up; doing a race single-handed and I know exactly under what circumstances I can get over-powered; wind dies out near the islands and I can see how strong eddies will mess up rudder response. Not sure I'd have gotten these same experiences with extra hands, sunny days, and casual sails.


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

I race my boat because the crew brings the beer of my choice.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

rbrasi said:


> I race my boat because the crew brings the beer of my choice.


Sounds like a good enough reason to me.. 

...although I prefer them to bring the nibbles also - and then pay "Crew Tax" after every race to cover stuff they break or lose overboard.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> In one overnight race, we had everything from dead calm to 3 squalls. And I'm far more comfortable sailing all night upwind on a double reef in 25+ kts.


To add on what I wrote earlier, the range of experiences to be overcome grows when racing because the tendency isn't to pack it up and motor in....especially when the whole fleet is blasting by you.

While I knew _*intellectually*_ what to do when the wind keeps increasing, practicing it with a fleet is far more fun. Ok, so what do we do *next* when the main is reefed and flat but the boat is *still* overpowered? Ease the traveler to create a bubble in the front ⅓ rd of the sail - check. Better, but still overpowered, now what? Don't want to furl the 130 genoa, so move the genoa car back 6" to open the top of the sail - check. Now we're balanced.

Something like that scenario is immensely beneficial toward building confidence. Several hours after the photo used in my avatar was taken, we executed that evolution at about 2AM.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Sabre is spot on.. you become more confident in how the boat handles for different wind types.. you start to get creative in how to actively depower the boat, but still make decent headway.


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

It give me the hope, real or delusional, that I might some day get good at it.


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