# How do you find one?



## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

Ahoy!

I'm a lifelong windsurfer and occasional sailer of scows, Sunfish and Lasers. Now 50 something, I'm looking for a stable, easy set-up sailboat that I can singlehand, but also can take friends-ideally a party of four. My criteria are:

1. Shallow draft (Minnesota lakes)
2. Easy set up and take down (I do not live on a lake)
3. Non-racer
4. Not a project boat
5. <15k, ideally <10K

Boats that appeal to me so far are the Com-Pac Sunday Cat, the Gig Harbor Jersey Skiff, the Sage 15/17, all of which are likely out of my reach on #5 barring a miracle. I've also been looking at Potters and have made inquiries on a locally available CD Typhoon (probably problematic on criteria #1 and #2)

I started looking in the fall, just as the used market was drying up for the year. I'm now following sailboatlistings and a couple of others, but I notice that most of the ads are years old. I know that it is early, but the only responses I am getting to inquiries so far are "sold it" and predatory spam from brokers who are "working hard to find [me] a boat". Gah-I can almost see the plaid tie and cheap suit.

Help a poor sailer in flyover country. Where do I find a boat?


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

trailer sailer with keel or centerboard? what do you have to tow it with? daysailer or over night stay?


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

overbored said:


> trailer sailer with keel or centerboard? what do you have to tow it with? daysailer or over night stay?


Centerboards probably make more sense for Minnesota, but I'm ok with a keel if it meets my criteria. Shoal keels or shoal keels plus centerboard would be fine almost everywhere I'm likely to sail. The problem with keelboats in general is that they become harder to get in and out of the water. I'm still going to look at the Cape Dory Typhoon when the snow melts (I just spent two hours shoveling off my roof), but the problem there is a 43 year old boat with a reputation for problems around the chainplates.

I have a Toyota Highlander rated to 3500# and a Mazda CX-5 rated to 2000#.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

The problem is with the boats you mentioned the newer designs go for a pretty penny. For less than $10k you would have a large choice of 22+ footers but they are hard to day sail with. Cockpits on the smaller boats will be tight for 4 adults.

Older Potters and Montgomerys would be in your price range.

Montgomery 15 or 17
Montgomerys For Sail

Potter 19
https://www.potter-yachters.org/forsale/boats.html


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

jephotog said:


> The problem is with the boats you mentioned the newer designs go for a pretty penny. For less than $10k you would have a large choice of 22+ footers but they are hard to day sail with. Cockpits on the smaller boats will be tight for 4 adults.
> 
> Older Potters and Montgomerys would be in your price range.


Thank you, although again, most of those are long since sold.

I've actually found a couple of Sunday Cats in my price range, but they are usually in Florida. By the time I either travelled down or hired a marine surveyor and shipped, I'd be sharply increasing my costs. I'm hoping one comes available near me, although I recognize that the odds are strongly against it. What I'm trying to figure out is that if one does become available, where will it show up first? Craigslist? SailboatListings? Somewhere else?

I want to be able to jump on a good boat if it comes available.


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

Nice to see another Minnesota sailor. I went to Florida to get my First 235. You just have to be diligent n your search. Try Hooper's Yachts, he usually has a decent selection. What lakes are you wanting to sail? I just saw a 235 that came up for sale in South Carolina. Craig's List is probably better than most. For SailboatListings, check that ad date as a lot go stale and are old. Hit me up if you have any MN questions. I sail on Minnetonka, Wayzata Yacht Club.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Rmaddy said:


> Thank you, although again, most of those are long since sold.
> 
> I've actually found a couple of Sunday Cats in my price range, but they are usually in Florida.


You are correct it may be worth paying $5k more for a local boat. You are also in a wierd price bracket where those kind of boats won't be listed by a broker. You need to pull out all the stops, Craigslist, Kijiji, etc. Maybe put a boat wanted in the Monty and Potter classifieds. There are likely a number of boats available in your area buried under snow for the moment. When things melt in April and May more boats will be posted locally.

I drove across the country for my last boat. None were available on the West Coast and I wanted "that" boat.


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## Markwesti (Jan 1, 2013)

How about a Catalina 22 , vintage around mid 80's , swing keel and pop top + trailer you could probably score for not over 6K .

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/catalina-22


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Markwesti said:


> How about a Catalina 22 , vintage around mid 80's , swing keel and pop top + trailer you could probably score for not over 6K .
> 
> https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/catalina-22


Agreed a C22 or 25 or lots of boats in that size range are available for a fraction of the price of a newer Com-pac or Precision. A boat 22 feet or bigger would be hard to day sail from a trailer. If the OP can find a slip or mooring a C25 would be a great boat to take out some friends or spend the weekend on.


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

Depending on where you are planning on sailing here in MN, shallow draft is not really that necessary. Minnetonka is actually quite deep and there are people that sail Catalina 22's and First 235's on Harriet or Nokomis in Minneapolis. Though, those two lakes are quite limited due to their size for a sailing for a day. If you are in the metro area, you could do Minnetonka easily. The city of Excelsior has mooring buoys that rarely fill. You could get one of those in Excelsior Bay, I did it with my O'Day 25 before I started racing. It is very reasonable considering the costs of marinas on that lake. There are numerous options out there for you.


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## drew1711 (May 22, 2004)

Craigslist is probably the best way to find a local boat like this. It shouldn't be hard.

FWIW, day sailing a trailerable boat normally only works when the boat lives on its trailer close to the launch ramp with its mast up. It's one thing to simply launch, sail and retrieve a boat.

Raising the mast and otherwise setting up the boat and then having to break it down again is way too much work for a day sail. Don't ask me how I know.


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## DonScribner (Jan 9, 2011)

For 10 years we would step and launch out Lancer 25 every time we sailed. When we were really good and motivated, it was 20 minutes from the time that I stopped the truck to when she floated free. It's about the preparation and mods to speed things up. 

That said . . . pick up a copy of The Complete Trailer Sailor by Brian Gilbert. It has tons of great information about this but best of all, the back is chock full of small boats in the 10-26' range. There are specs, sketches, photos, pros, cons: all the stuff to help you pick out the boat with the perfect features for you. One thing that I would recommend keeping in your radar is a real head. Most smaller boats have a bucket in the middle of the cabin; not fun for a shy crew member. IN the 25', shoal keel variety, you often find a small head, probably a porta-pottie.


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## Davy J (Mar 25, 2017)

A pristine Catalina 25 can be had for around 10K. However, your tow vehicle is not up to the task. Boat and trailer will be 6-7000 lbs, loaded, probably more. Cream of the crop years are 1987-1991, with a wing keel. Swing keel models are also readily available, they are trailerable, but require a little more maintenance.

The Catalina 25 International Association can be found here:

Association Forum

One of the members has this boat for sale:

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/boa/d/peoria-catalina-25-wing-keel-sailboat/6802397479.html


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

drew1711 said:


> Craigslist is probably the best way to find a local boat like this. It shouldn't be hard.
> 
> FWIW, day sailing a trailerable boat normally only works when the boat lives on its trailer close to the launch ramp with its mast up. It's one thing to simply launch, sail and retrieve a boat.
> 
> Raising the mast and otherwise setting up the boat and then having to break it down again is way too much work for a day sail. Don't ask me how I know.


Except on the Com-Pacs...thus my interest in them.


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

Roughly when do used boats start coming up on CL and elsewhere? April? May? I’m checking every day, but with all the snow in my area, I don’t think too many people are thinking about sailing.


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

cb32863 said:


> Nice to see another Minnesota sailor. I went to Florida to get my First 235. You just have to be diligent n your search. Try Hooper's Yachts, he usually has a decent selection. What lakes are you wanting to sail? I just saw a 235 that came up for sale in South Carolina. Craig's List is probably better than most. For SailboatListings, check that ad date as a lot go stale and are old. Hit me up if you have any MN questions. I sail on Minnetonka, Wayzata Yacht Club.


I got out to Hooper's last week and pretty much nothing was visible under the snow. Today, if one is willing to cross the mud, the leftovers of 2018 are in plain view. I looked at an older Suncat today, but there was a lot of moisture on interior trim boards adjacent to the portside chainplate. There was a decent Cape Dory, a Sanibel and a Potter, but all of the owners seem to be rather optimistic about their value.

It was a fun day of poking around, but nothing that wanted to follow me home. I'm still stalking the ads and hoping to see a bit better selection in the local boatyards.


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## GerryL (Mar 17, 2019)

I see quite a few listed on Facebook marketplace. I bought a Montgomery 17 in January; it needs a little work but will be ready in May. I'd suggest regularly searching Craigslist & facebook. Good Luck!


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## rpludwig (Mar 13, 2017)

+1 on C22, swing keel, 86>, perfect for your application and specs, under your budget and plenty out there...


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

I'm surprised how slow the ads are coming. I would have guessed that March and April were much busier for those trying to trade up for something this year.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Rmaddy said:


> I'm surprised how slow the ads are coming. I would have guessed that March and April were much busier for those trying to trade up for something this year.


I have found trailer sailers more difficult to find on the used market than keel boats. The storage and repair costs on keel boats are high enough sometimes people would do just about anything to get rid of them. A good dry sailer kn the other hand costs basically nothing to own if you aren't using it, so the incentive to sell just isn't there.


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

Arcb said:


> I have found trailer sailers more difficult to find on the used market than keel boats. The storage and repair costs on keel boats are high enough sometimes people would do just about anything to get rid of them. A good dry sailer kn the other hand costs basically nothing to own if you aren't using it, so the incentive to sell just isn't there.


That's good to know. I'm still hoping for the best, but it's pretty slim pickings so far.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

It seems to me anyone looking for a trailer sailor has almost unlimited options, area wise. Alaska to Mexico or Hudson's Bay, Maine to San Diego. Shouldn' be particularly hard to find what you want at a price you can afford. I wish it was as easy for us bigger boat searchers.
Heck, you don't even have to know where the Panama Canal is! lol


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

capta said:


> It seems to me anyone looking for a trailer sailor has almost unlimited options, area wise. Alaska to Mexico or Hudson's Bay, Maine to San Diego. Shouldn' be particularly hard to find what you want at a price you can afford. I wish it was as easy for us bigger boat searchers.
> Heck, you don't even have to know where the Panama Canal is! lol


I guess the grass is always greener. I see plenty of ads for sailboats 25 ft and up, even in my small-lake state. I think part of the problem is that boat production has really dropped off in the last 10 years, and used boats aren't as plentiful or affordable as they used to be.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Rmaddy said:


> I guess the grass is always greener. I see plenty of ads for sailboats 25 ft and up, even in my small-lake state. I think part of the problem is that boat production has really dropped off in the last 10 years, and used boats aren't as plentiful or affordable as they used to be.


Again, way outside my field, but I would suggest that the places one searches for sub-25-footers are quite different from where the bigger, more expensive boats advertise. Probably not too many 19-footers on Yachtworld.
I think its all about learning the ropes, understanding that having someone you trust (a surveyor) take a quick look at the boat if it's far from you, etc.
I don't fly from the Caribbean every time I want to look at a used sail; I hire a sailmaker in the area to do that and it has saved me thousands so far and only cost hundreds.


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

The reason I started this thread was to find more good places to look. As it stands, ever day I check the sailboat listings on Craigslist for all cities within 5-6 hours drive, I follow do the same with Sailboat listings for 6 states. I read the daily listings in Sailing Texas, which are surprisingly national despite the name. I hunt the local boatyards. 

If you know of some other thing I should do, I would really love to heard about it.


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## danvon (Dec 10, 2012)

See if there are Facebook groups for any of the local sailing clubs or racing groups. Sometimes things turn up there.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Owned a CD typhoon at the start of my two foot itis. Pluses are very stable and easy to sail. Surprisingly does fairly well in light air and fresh breeze. Well made so even an old one should be structural ok. I trailered it and had no issues setting her up by myself but it took some learning. 
Downside for you is I think it would be rather cramped with four aboard. Most I had on her was two and a child and then only in benign conditions. Don’t know what winds are like in the Midwest summers but for New England it was a fine boat.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Rmaddy said:


> I guess the grass is always greener. I see plenty of ads for sailboats 25 ft and up, even in my small-lake state. I think part of the problem is that boat production has really dropped off in the last 10 years, and used boats aren't as plentiful or affordable as they used to be.


The problem with larger boats is the bigger they are the more complicated they become. A trailer sailor that is "in need of a little elbow grease" may take a month to get into primo condition. A 40 foot boat that has been neglected might take 2 years to get ready to sail. Logistics also become easier when I boat is on a trailer. I traveled 5000 miles for my last sailboat.


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## desmond275 (Apr 7, 2019)

Hello, and welcome to the forum. Good luck on your search.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

This one is maybe too far for you, but it seems right up your alley. Canoe yawl on a trailer with Tanbark Sails.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/ki...at/1428011714?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Arcb said:


> This one is maybe too far for you, but it seems right up your alley. Canoe yawl on a trailer with Tanbark Sails.
> 
> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/ki...at/1428011714?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


That is stinkin' cute!


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Way long...er berths than mine...
Jeez...looks nice.
Yawls get a lot of attention....be aware.


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

Arcb said:


> This one is maybe too far for you, but it seems right up your alley. Canoe yawl on a trailer with Tanbark Sails.
> 
> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/ki...at/1428011714?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


Too far and too heavy, but another great boat.

I meant to report back to the thread, but you beat me to it. I was able just days ago, through the Com-Pac Yacht Owners Association, to locate a nearby Suncat. The answer to my own thread question is therefore:

"Post a WTB ad on a site frequented by owners of the boat you want and see what happens."


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

The boat model spcific forums...if used by many..will know the current value of their boats. Also...those forums are usually well managed and dont put up with much bs.


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

I never stopped looking for other boats on a daily basis, but it made sense to post interest in the CP trailer sailers specifically given that I knew they would be a decent fit. As I suspected, no nibbles on Sunday Cats or Picnic Cats, but even in the upper Midwest, there are a few Suncats out there.


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## theluckyone17 (Jan 26, 2018)

Search, and keep looking.

Neighbor's got an English built twin keel 21' Sunray that caught my attention, but she's unwilling to part with it. I did a bit of research, and thought I'd like to own one, for the day I out grow my O'Day 19 Weekender. Those twin keels are pretty hard to find on this side of the pond, unless I find an "imported" Westerly, and even those aren't exactly common.

Discovered an advertisement online that linked to an eBay auction... first auction was relisted, and the second had no bidders. On a whim, I reached out to the seller... who had already sold the boat, but provided contact information for the latest owner. Things worked out, and I'm the proud owner of a 24' twin keel Tylercraft. Gonna spend a few years restoring her while I sail the O'Day. I love working on boats myself, nearly as much as I enjoy being on the water.

Sure, it was an unorthodox method of buying a boat... but it worked out. Can't find it if you don't go looking, though.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

theluckyone17 said:


> for the day I out grow my O'Day 19 Weekender.


You may find you never "outgrow" your week ender. Many specifically seek out the unique challenges of small boat sailing. In a small boat the weather is bigger, the water is closer, challenges that might be non issues on big keel boats like cooking, refrigeration and even sleeping challenge us on small boats, the smaller the boat, the greater the challenge.

So it depends what you mean by outgrow, if you mean outgrow the comfort of a smaller boat then the solution may be to go bigger, but if you mean outgrow your skill set and the level of challenge you face, the solution may be to go smaller.


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## theluckyone17 (Jan 26, 2018)

At the risk of going off topic...

Perhaps "outgrowing" was the wrong word to use. I'm at the point of my life where I can get away for a weekend or a long weekend and go sailing. The Weekender is perfect for that. Cabin the size of a pop-up tent, all the basic creature comforts, and if it rains, I can stand to sit in the cabin for a day or two.

I can't see spending a week or more on it, though. I'd like to be able to take the Tylercraft out for longer vacations. Give me long enough, and I might even be able to finagle longer trips. Don't get me wrong, I could do the Weekender for longer trips if I had to, but the TC would be much more comfortable.

On the other hand, the Weekender draws all of 12" when the swing CB is up; the TC draws 2'. If I'm gonna hit a local lake for the weekend, the Weekender will be easier and quicker to launch. I'd rather have the extra displacement of the TC if I'm sailing down in Long Island Sound or out around Boston, though. Whether I keep one or the other depends on how my sailing habits and locations change over the upcoming years.

Until then, I've got a project boat (the TC) to occupy my hands whenever I'm not sailing or kayaking.

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk


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