# Atlantic Crossing



## Crunch (Jul 11, 2008)

Has anyone crossed the Atlantic Southeast US to Europe? how long did it take?
Suggested stopping points?
nice forum here.
take care,
Tom


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Crunch-

This is a pretty common voyage. I would highly suggest you get Jimmy Cornell's book World Cruising Routes, which has the routes you're looking at as well as a lot of information about what times of year to leave and what are possible stopover points as well as GPS waypoints and such. 

As for how long it takes, it really depends on the boat and the weather. 

I would recommend you read the post in my signature to get the most out of your time on sailnet. Welcome to sailnet.


----------



## Crunch (Jul 11, 2008)

thanks for the reply, I'll look for Jimmy Cornell's book.
How about some real world experience pointers on the Atlantic doing this single handed.
My experience has been mainly to inland waterways. But time to try something new.


----------



## Cruisingdreamspress (Apr 8, 2008)

Hey Crunch,
Read as much as you can on the subject. Preparation and planning are key. Here are a few suggestions. On my seven- year solo lap around I always tried to remember to wear my harness in all conditions. I got better at that routine as my voyage progressed. To keep a reasonable watch, I used a kitchen timer to allow me to nap for 15 to 20 minutes throughout the 24 hour day rather than sleep normal hours. Cruisers are playing Russian gambling games if they think radar sees all dangers. Long periods of sleep deprivation, however, can be as dangerous as sleeping the night away or as any tanker bearing down on you at 20 knots. My suggestion is don't allow your self to become so tired that you become punchy. In my own case, I could usually go two days on my kitchen timer routine. By the morning of the third day, though, I had to put some back to back hours of uninterrupted sleep. Before settling in to dreamland I always checked radar and called out on my VHF to any vessels that might be within 20 or 30 miles of me. Seeing and hearing nothing and when I had done all I could to be safe, I fell off to sleep. The first three days at sea are the most difficult but after that a routine emerges that is more than tolerable. The longest time at sea for me is 35 days.

Reducing sails at night is sensible along with other actions a cruiser can take to enhance safer sailing.
Sailing out of shipping lanes is obviously prudent for the solo sailor as well as moving off any direct course between popular destinations. Heading direct to say Va Vauu, Tonga from Pago Pago is not as safe as sailing 5 miles on either side of the direct route. All cruisers, and especially solo sailors should be able to heave-to. Lots to learn Asking questions, as you are doing, is essential to expanding your knowledge. I've sailed over 30 years and learn new things all the time. Hope this has been of some help.


----------



## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Key West to Grand Bahama, to Bermuda, to Cork.
Longest run was 27 days.
Don't sail it in hurricane season.

Bring your storm sails and get a top-flight wind-vane steering system.
Bring 2 other crew as well.
Don't sail it in hurricane season....

Hurricane Bonnie (1992 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Depending on destination...the other route is Bermuda to the Azores. Since your experience is limited AND Bermuda is a stop on virtually all routes...suggest you set *that* as your goal first. Bermuda is a 4-7 day trip from most points on the East Coast. If all goes well, you can continue on...if not you can head back after repairs. Figure about a month to 5 weeks as transit time depending on the weather and the boat. 
The ARC Europe leaves in mid-may each year and the site will give you some perspective on the trip.
World Cruising Club ARC Europe itinerary









Note that the route follows the WIND rather than the rhumb line...Connel's book explains in detail!


----------



## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

Real world. Granted, he started from the northeast.
S/V Kestrel - The Plan


----------



## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Good article that one. Good stuff.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I've done Norfolk VA -> La Coruna (Spain), via Azores.

Yes, Jimmy Cornell is a 'must read', but its not difficult to plan. The best time of year is May-June. You need to reach the Azores by July, Europe by August to keep out of hurricane season (July-November). Winter (Dec - March) risks encountering north Atlantic storms.

Routing - the trick is (i) to keep in the Gulf Stream as far as the Azores and (ii) get north of the Azores High with its zone of very light winds. To achieve this, yachts leaving the US aim to reach around 38degN as soon as possible. The position of the Gulf Stream is given daily by CAMSLANT (USCG) weather and by Herb's routing service. If you go via Bermuda you are likely to get caught in light winds zone - take extra diesel.

Timing - took me 21 days to Azores, and 9 from Azores to Spain - but that is definitely slow!

Try to see as much of the Azores as you can, not just Horta. Some of the smaller islands are gorgeous.


----------



## Crunch (Jul 11, 2008)

thanks for the great info being posted here.
This type of hull safe for ocean open water?


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

is this your boat or you are planning on stealing it and crossing the Atlantic?


----------



## Crunch (Jul 11, 2008)

not my boat, not stealing it, I only asked about the type of hull mainly keel.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

It looks like a full keel or a very long fin keel... hard to say from the angle of the photo and such. It would probably help if you said what make and model of boat it is, rather than showing a rather poor photo of the beast.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I found this link helpful Mahina Expedition - Offshore Cruising Instruction


----------



## Crunch (Jul 11, 2008)

thats a Morgan 28'


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Should be okay to cross... given the proper weather window.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Crunch - please correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds to me that you have limited sailing experience (off shore experience) and you are thinking about crossing Atlantic in 28 ft Morgan which is I guess late '70 vintage?
I'm far from telling anyone what to do - but - WTF?


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Should be okay to cross... given the proper weather window.


Just remember there is no such thing as a weather window for an ocean crossing. Forecasts aren't even close to reliable for that long. A window is okay for getting away from shore, after that you get what you get within the bounds of _trying_ to steer around the nasty bits.

sail fast, dave


----------



## Crunch (Jul 11, 2008)

yes limited experience to others, I am not commited to taking on this adventure, take a look at what my initial question was.
I would like to, so I am here asking and probing on others experiences here, you ok with that Schindler? 
So back to the boat, I don't own what's in the pic, just curious to know if others have used same design it in open water.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Very, very, true... but you'll probably want a good window to get a decent running start at least...  No sense in ending up like Dom Mee... 


SVAuspicious said:


> Just remember there is no such thing as a weather window for an ocean crossing. Forecasts aren't even close to reliable for that long. A window is okay for getting away from shore, after that you get what you get within the bounds of _trying_ to steer around the nasty bits.
> 
> sail fast, dave


----------



## Crunch (Jul 11, 2008)

SVAuspicious said:


> Just remember there is no such thing as a weather window for an ocean crossing. Forecasts aren't even close to reliable for that long. A window is okay for getting away from shore, after that you get what you get within the bounds of _trying_ to steer around the nasty bits.
> 
> sail fast, dave


well I know that a GPS is requires (probably 2) some software that can interface with GPS, radio communications equipment, a weather forecast info service...
keep adding folks I am absorbing. thanks


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Umm... paper charts, a handbearing compass, binoculars and a few other things would come before a computer IMHO, *since small boats, like a Morgan 28', are fairly wet boats, and relying on complex electronics are a really bad idea on such a vessel*.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

if you post on a public board you need to put up with the questions you don't like - you don't have to answer. Nothing wrong with asking questions and learning - I'm doing the same. Good luck ...


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

The Morgan OI28 is a roomy family coastal cruiser of modest build quality and not very good sailing performance. It is not a boat that I would consider crossing an ocean in but I'm sure the price is attractive. 
It is in Vigor's "20 small boats" book but I disagree with a number of his choices and it would need considerable upgrading to be considered seaworthy. 
If you are JUST asking about the keel...then yes...a cutaway full keel can be an ocean going keel...JUST like any other keel.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Crunch said:


> well I know that a GPS is requires (probably 2) some software that can interface with GPS, radio communications equipment, a weather forecast info service...
> keep adding folks I am absorbing. thanks


the first thing that is required is the boat strong enough to take pounding, you need survival gear, the ability to repair or rig just about anything with limited tools and no help, ability to dead reckon, you need a radio to get the weather reports and ability to read and understand weather. you need the experience to steer the boat by hand down the 30ft wave when your autopilot dies, you need to know how to survive when your boat hits a whale or a flotsam - list is endless - try to crew on a boat along the coast.

I've never been on a sailboat in a storm (10) but I've been on a small trawler - it's pants pissing scary - 28ft adds a whole new meaning to it.
I don't try to discourage your from your dreams plans etc - just to add a little realism to it.


----------



## Crunch (Jul 11, 2008)

I do understand that it is a major undertaking and serious risk, I can't be the first person dreaming of doing this and maybe pursuing it.
I am at the stage of gathering information from others that do have Ocean experience, good reason to be on this site. I am making my list of what is being shared here, I don't need to read "why would you do this with your experience level".
The boat I do have is not something for the ocean for sure, hence I am asking some details on what type of boat, not exact make and model. 
I'd like a 30' sloop, heavy keel, thick fiberglass, auto pilot that will always work, but can't always have what you want.
So please keep sharing I do read every bit of it.

Has anyone had the misfortune of stricking a whale? what was the result? I read on another site where containers have fallen off ships and float right below the surface anyone seen something like that?


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Crunch said:


> The boat I do have is not something for the ocean for sure, hence I am asking some details on what type of boat, not exact make and model.
> I'd like a 30' sloop, heavy keel, thick fiberglass, auto pilot that will always work, but can't always have what you want.


You can have the first three certainly. Add a sturdy rudder and rig to your wish-list. But as for an infallible autopilot .... if you find one please let me be the first to know!

With the first three I don't think whales or floating containers should be a major issue. Its the lightweights, with fin keels and exposed rudders, and unsound wooden yachts, that get into trouble running into things. (I don't know about a rare full scale attack by a whale though). If you are singlehanded, you have more to fear from ships running into you.


----------



## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

"I don't need to read "why would you do this with your experience level".
Rather than "oh that would be a fun idea I wonder what is involved" perhaps you would demonstrate your preparedness to become prepared by doing the research rather than simply asking. It isn't that extraordinarily difficult a passage but nor is it straightforward if you add attitude, seamanship and seaworthiness to the equation.


----------



## bossk (May 8, 2008)

I have no input that I can offer that would in any way be helpful to you, but I did read this last year and enjoyed it immensely. Pretty much it's a guy doing what you want to do and his experinces. It's entertaining and adventuresome. Enjoy!

Ok I can't post a link yet, boo me, so do a search on google for *Confessions of a Long Distance Sailor*, the first hit should be what you want. You can download the pdf, or read it right on the site.


----------



## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Crunch...
Whatever boat you choose, do some coastal sailing first. I certainly would be wary of electronics. They just get soaked in the first storm, or near-storm.
I lost my SSB receiver when one drop of seawater got in there.
A wee weather fax would be useful, but again, get a sealed box for it... one of those sealed industrial suitcases.
I did the trip on a 36 ft boat, and a heavy one at that, and I had a superb captain. I still would not do it alone. I would get too melancholy.
A 28 ft is a small ship. It's been done though.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Crunch said:


> well I know that a GPS is requires (probably 2) some software that can interface with GPS, radio communications equipment, a weather forecast info service...
> keep adding folks I am absorbing. thanks


You don't really NEED any of that. I carried a fixed GPS and chartplotter and a handheld GPS as backup on my crossing. I had an SSB and VHF with handheld GPS backup, but an SSB receiver for WXFAX reception would have been adequate.

I am not a fan of weather forecast services. You can learn enough about forecasting to interpret synoptic charts and do a better job of routing than anyone off the boat, except for Gulf Stream related information (you can't get enough information onto the boat to do your own analysis without huge (expensive) bandwidth).

Your skills are the most important thing. You'll spend more time in light air than heavy, but practice getting reefs in fast -- really fast. Learn weather forecasting. Spend time experimenting with sheet-to-tiller/wheel steering as a back-up. Sail whenever you can, in the heaviest conditions you can.

The boat you are talking about can make it, albeit with more unpleasant hours than I had, and I had more unpleasant hours than someone in a boat as much again bigger than mine. You run what you brung. <grin>

People/crew are the biggest issue, keeping everyone on the same page and getting along is the biggest challenge of a long passage.

Good luck, have fun, sail fast, don't die,

dave


----------



## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Crunchy,
You are getting good advice here. 
My suggestion would be to try to get some ocean sailing time in BEFORE you buy the boat. Any crossing of 4+ days will give you an idea of what to expect in average weather and may cure your desire to endure more.
Camaraderie mentioned the Atlantic Rally for Cruisers (ARC) which would be a great place to find a place as crew on a leg where a boat is being positioned before or after the race (in either direction). If you are willing to pay your own airfare many skippers need crew to help position their boats.
I was lucky enough to get just such a gig which helped me figure out if I could endure it. My background was similar to yours and I wrote an account of it that can be seen here: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruising/43821-sailors-hands-angry-ocean.html
Good luck.


----------

