# spare anchor



## americanfrog (Sep 6, 2012)

I have a 40.5 hunter legend with a 35lb delta as main anchor which works just fine. am looking for a good spare anchor to use as stern or emergency as needed. I cruise in the pacific northwest which has a great variety of bottoms. I was thinking Bruce? any suggestions?


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

A lot of us use bruce equals here in puget sound frankly. Including myself with very good success. I have a 7.5KG lewmar version for my Jeanneau that is about on par with an H28.5 that a friend has near me. 

Depending upon the real usage, I could see a 10KG/22 lb one for a stern, light lunch/low wind hook as an option. Some would go/recomend a danforth of some sort, as they work better in mud/fine soil bottoms. Be it a galvinized or say a foretress out of aluminum. The fortress will weigh about half for a given size anchor, but also cost you about double!

I just bought a 9lb Delta as my race anchor. Worked well the other day in some 7-12 knot winds with 12-15" waves in south edmonds. 

Reality is, there is not a better or best, only what will actually work bet for you, depending upon the cnditions you need said 2nd anchor to work in.

marty


----------



## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

I used a 27# HT Danforth as a 2nd anchor while cruising the PNW. Mounts easy enough on the back rail too as a stern anchor.


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

americanfrog said:


> I have a 40.5 hunter legend with a 35lb delta as main anchor which works just fine. am looking for a good spare anchor to use as stern or emergency as needed. I cruise in the pacific northwest which has a great variety of bottoms. I was thinking Bruce? any suggestions?


Can I suggest you review some of the older anchoring posts to learn what the community thinks about anchor choice. I personally think Mantus would be an ideal fit. We claim that Mantus provides the most reliable set of any anchor on the market, bc of the ear tabs it can be stored like a Danforth of the pulpit. It will definitely give you a more reliable set than the Danforth. There is quiet a bit of information on the Mantus in this forum but also you can visit our website TEST VIEOS

Disclaimer of-course I represent Mantus Anchors, but I have no reservations in recommending it as a fellow cruiser.

Also there is a sale for Sailnet members running riht now, 25% Discount....
Discount CODE: SAILNET (offer expires 09/16 I believe)


----------



## LinekinBayCD (Oct 19, 2009)

My primary on an 11,000# displacement boat is a 33# Rocna on all chain rode on the roller. Hanging from he bow pulpit is a 12# Fortress on mostly braided line, ready to quick deploy or be used as a lunch hook. 

The Fortess is held in place in a vertical bracket mostly by gravity. A small line keeps its from bouncing out. Can be in the water in about 5 seconds. The rode can be rund to a stern cleat if needed.

I'd go light weight for a secondary.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm a fan of the Fortress for backup/emergency/stern anchor. I'm sold on the light weight and easy storage.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I know this will open a whole Pandorras Box, but I am sure I am not the only person with this observation/ question. Maybe this should be a seperate thread

I am bringing particular attention to this because of the recent spade of Mantus posts which appear to be just advertisement for the sale of their product.. They may have a good product, not sure. Their literature is not unlike the liturature presented by the other two major " new anchors" over the last few years. 

Is it really appropriate for sponsoring members of Sailnet to reply to threads in a blatent advertisement of their products. Is this what we have come to? So now the advice of normal everyday sailors gets thrown in with people with special interests in making money off of the rest of us. Where are we drawing the line here? Are we saying pay enough money to sponsor Sailnet and we you will be allowed to advertise you product and shill for it in the various posted threads. Dont pay the money to Sailnet and if you use the forums to promote your product then you will be censored. Is this the direction we are going? 

Understand that there is no independent testing of these products or the business practices of these companies.

I am asking the moderators to define when it is appropriate for a business, individual . company to promote their own financial self interests on here. Is it enough to make a statement that they have interest in the company? Is it defined by paying homage to Sailnet financially, is that what gets you in and makes it appropriate. Can you promote a book that you have written that you will benefit from financially? Can you promote a particular brand? Can you promote a particular repair shop, canvas maker, engine brand, line clutch, sails or sail loft? Can you promote a marina, surveyor, production line of sailboat? Will people who have had problems with the particular company be allowed to post on here against the company without fear of censorship, or does the advertising dollar the company pays to Sailnet give them immunity from people making negative comments about their products.? Will the readers of threads with negative comments about Sailnet advertisors be muzzled? Some of us still remember the Tartan debacle. This now goes to much more, now the threat of a lawsuit. This goes to credability.

It is one thing when people have used the products and make an INDEPENDENT evaluation and recommendations like Mainesail has with the anchors and various other products. He doesnt make money on them. It is another when the posters posts are being answered by the manufacturers in and effor to blatently make money. This is a dangerous direction to go. Credibility can/ will eventually be determined on here by " paid advertisements and threads. Eventually that will lead to no credibility except to the highest bidder.

This is a slippery slope allowing companies to post with our comments when their posts are nothing but blatent advertisements of their product. This has nothing to do with them answering a technical question ( which could be done in a PM)or particular issue. 

I have found the continued posting of the Mantus company in almost all threads concerning anchors to be disconcerting and an obvious attempt of their company to promote their brand. Again they may have the best product since the invention of the light bulb.

Dave


----------



## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

For my spare anchor, where storage is an issue, I bought a Mantus 35 lb. anchor because it it can be disassembled in about 4+ minutes for storage as three compact, relatively flat components with the bolted construction. It goes together and comes apart easily with simple tools. Just in case that I fumble one of the bolts or nuts, I bought a couple of spare bolts that I keep with the anchor components. In my case, I store the anchor in the cockpit storage locker and the cockpit floor gives a convenient, flat, contained area for assembly and disassembly. Fortress also can be disassembled and stored in like manner. Which of these two one selects would depend in part whether you want a refined Danforth type or one of the new generation "spade" type anchors. It would seem that choice might be dictated in part by the other anchors that you have in inventory to give you a variety for a variety of bottoms.


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

chef2sail said:


> I know this will open a whole Pandorras Box, but I am sure I am not the only person with this observation/ question. Maybe this should be a seperate thread
> 
> Dave


Dave, I am sorry our participation in the forum rubbed you the wrong way. I was hoping that our comments were useful to Sailnet members, furthered the discussion and taken as nothing more as manufacturers thoughts on things, always with a disclaimer. I thought we were in-line with other anchor manufacturers like Rocna, Fortress who routinely participate in anchor discussions. In any case I apologize to SAILNETTERS if our presence on the forum is not perceived as useful or is over-the-top 
Greg


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Greg,

I no way were my comments directed to the effectiveness of your product, nor did I find them offensive in nature of any way. My comments were really to the SailNet moderatorors as to the limits that people be allowed to self promote, or promote products on the site. I have seen censorship of others by the mods when posters were promoting their business and/ or products in the past. I was merely trying to ascertain what the rules are. 

Some of My questions really go to them

Are anchor manufacturers allowed to post here and promote their anchors sales etc, or do they have to sponsor SailNet with royalties?

Are book writers allowed to promote their books here?

Can marinas, surveyors, canvas makers, etc allowed to answer posts which have relevance to their niche as long as they note who they really are ? Or is this entitlement only allowed to those on the SailNet vendor list who pay them?

Just asking what the playing field looks like here. Are the posters comments true feelings of sailors who are using these products, or are the comments interspersed with " sales pitches and marketing facts" from representatives of companies trying to make money on us. I have no problem either way, just want to know what are the parameters here. I have seen others censored because they represent special interests, or because they presented views which may have gotten SailNet sued, but then others who are allowed to post their products like they are the average "joe sailor" Out on weekends/ cruising like the rest of us. 

Greg, this is not about you or your company, but a larger question

Dave


----------



## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

I appreciate the fact that he has actually disclosed his identity and commercial interests.

The really annoying posters are the undisclosed commercial participants - the social media marketing reps whose mission is to create a commercial for their product or service by starting an asinine thread to generate market interest.

The posters are initially difficult to distinguish from the alter ego/sock puppet members in the sense that they both have no verifiable information about their identity - they use a stock photo for their avatar, no real photos of boats, family, sailing, etc., no identifiable boat name or location. Whereas the alter ego/sock puppet members exist to allow someone to post anonymously what they do not want associated with themselves, the undisclosed social media marketing reps are revealed by their stupid posts that foster a commercial for whatever they are selling.

Not that there is anything that can be done about except to frustrate their purpose.

By the way "What three things do you need to take sailing?"

"What is the best way to connect to the internet while offshore?"

"Does anyone recommend a charter company in St. John's, U.S.V.I?"

"Is anyone offering sailing lessons in Puerto Rico?"


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

*posts*

James,

I agree to some extent. So what you are saying is that as long as they identify themselves it is ok.

So whenever we have discussions concerning sails, it would be ok if the reps and sales lofts from North, Quantum, Rolly Tasker, Ullman etc. Post their options and alt the same time let us know of their sales promotions. Like the mantus post has 25% off for sailneters.

We could all potentially better informed with this kind of information.


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

To me personally, it devalues a brand to keep plugging it in a forum. But I don't have an issue as long as it's overt and reasonable - I am just cognizant of the source and, unless there is some true value in the post, I regard it like a sales brochure. 

The posts that I find irritating are the covert (sometimes difficult to tell) and the irrelevant ("what cruiser should I buy" - "well our daysailer would suit you fine" - I exaggerate but not by much). 

It's the internet and you have to look at the source. I'd like less commercialism but I'm not holding my breath. 

As for the anchor question - There a lot of opinions out there. Read the anchor threads and comparison articles and go one size bigger than you think you want. Anybody want to talk about guns?

Edit: looks like James said much of the same while I was typing.


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

*Re: posts*



chef2sail said:


> J
> So whenever we have discussions concerning sails, it would be ok if the reps and sales lofts from North, Quantum, Rolly Tasker, Ullman etc. Post their options and alt the same time let us know of their sales promotions.


BTW, what happened to that "independent" guy who kept pushing the Quantum loft in California? Some of these types think that we are stupid.


----------



## bratzcpa (Oct 18, 2011)

I'm "fine" if various manufacturers and or representatives chime in here with their opinions and thoughts, as long as 1) they identify themselves as such, and 2) keep their "salesmanship" brief, polite, honest, and respectful of the competitors. In fact, I think its kind of nice to know that there are real people behind some of these products . . . not just an offshore mega-company in a foreign speaking land.

Heck if one of these guys is offering a 'real' bargain/sale to us sailnet members, I want to know about it!


----------



## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Mantus is a paid advertiser on Sailnet.


----------



## RNDROB (Sep 6, 2012)

Without sponsors we wouldn’t have free access to this wealth of information. I for one am thankful that they are willing to pick up the tab and do think that entitles them to a certain amount of direct interaction on the board. Remember that by putting themselves out there they also open themselves up to a lot of scrutiny. If sponsor X doesn’t conduct business in a straightforward and ethical manor or puts out an inferior product or service it won’t’ take long before the rest of us know about it. Some of them even know a thing or two about the types of products they are selling.
No regarding the original posting: I also live in the PNW and while I haven’t done much sailing I have done a reasonable amount of fishing in the rivers and ocean. There are places in the mid-Columbia river which have a rocky bottom. The guys who frequent those areas have lost enough anchors that they developed what I have heard referred to as the Columbia River anchor which is used very extensively by those fishing below Bonneville dam. They are heavier than those mentioned above so may not be applicable but just though I would mention it. I can't attach any links but you could google columbia river anchor system if your so inclined. 

BR,

Rob


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

As long as a poster fully discloses their affiliation, I'm okay hearing their point of view. I just take it in context.

I would prefer not to see repeated discount sales offers within the threads, although, Sailnet's bills must be paid. If they are okay with it, I don't feel I have much say. They would not be the only posts I skip by. If it became so rampant that I found it hard to get to entertaining content, I would be less inclined to come here. Hopefully SN considers that in developing their policy.


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Mantus Anchors not only is a SailNet Advertiser but they have also offered a series of discounts for SailNet members which we also see as benefitting SailNet as a whole. Greg has also been providing useful and seemingly fair minded commentary. While Greg has clearly been advocating for the Mantus Product he has provided information on other issues, and also seems to treat his competition fairly, for example acknowleging having a fortress as a back up mud anchor.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Thank you for clarifying. No need to keep repeating to me that Mantus is in fact a PAID contributed to SailNet. That was obvious from my first posting that I knew this. Any comments about Mantus treating the competition fairly is very subjective, and possibly self serving as I doubt any person who is the administration of SailNet will go against one of the corportate sponsors who pays the bills. You guys know where your bread is buttered.



So the rules are that if you contribute financially to SailNet you get a clear advantage in your postings a nd are permitted to advertise within them.

If you are not a financial donor to SailNet, but identify yourself as merchant or have a financial interest In the topic you are speaking on are you still allowed to comment without restrictive censorship? 

So who are merchants who contribute to SailNet? For complete transparency is there a directory of contributors a reader can go to find who here actually HAS the competitive advantage and therefore access to readers? As some have stated it isn't always obvious by their names or disclaimers. Lastly and also importantly, how much of our prsonal as well as demograpgic information, demographics etc is shared with these/ which manufacturers.

Dave


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Chef,

This is all supposed to be casual entertainment. I try not to take much of it very seriously, vendor claimed or otherwise. I just like escaping mentally into sailing. When I pick up a good idea, andni often do, I always check it out independently anyway. 

I don't much care how SN runs their hotel, I'm just having a drink with like mind people in the lobby and watching the world go by. I forget what we said half the time.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> This is all supposed to be casual entertainment. I try not to take much of it very seriously, vendor claimed or otherwise. I just like escaping mentally into sailing. When I pick up a good idea, andni often do, I always check it out independently anyway. -Minniewaska


Minnie, I respect your comment and opinions. I recognize that your outlook is shared by others also.

In our integrated society where ideas and free speech abound mine is but one of many. While I respect your opnion not to get to serious about this internet thing, I am sure that you would respect mine as you have in the past. There are others I am sure who have similar questions. The fact that I am asking these questions does not take away from my passion for sailing or make me too serious about this as you may be stating.

In my three questions, one of them is that I would like to know what is happening to my information on this site, a question which many people ask in todays world. Not unreasonable a questions and certainly not to serious of one.

We still need to have that margarita together. Sorry you wont be down this year for the sailboat show in Annapolis. Guess it may have to wait till we come up north again during next years long Island sound vacaction.

Dave


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Ritas always are waiting. Enjoy the show.

You ask a good question about demo data. Other than an email address, I don't recall how much demo data SN actually has.


----------



## Frogwatch (Jan 22, 2011)

WHAT? You only carry two anchors? Do you really do any cruising?


----------



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

To the OP:

I think there are several good choices depending on your specific needs. For starters, since it's a stern anchor/backup anchor I would think that storage would be an issue. Do you have a stern roller or pulpit to hang it off? Will it permanently mounted, ready to deploy off the stern? Will you be getting it out of the lazarette locker and manhandling it into a dinghy to kedge out? All of these issues should help you narrow down the field of anchors that will work well for you. 

My experience and disclaimers: I'm a big fan of the genuine Bruce and don't believe in cheap Lewmar copies. I've used the Fortress and Bruce extensively in the PNW as well. I also have a Mantus anchor (primary) that was given to me at a pro-deal discount that I plan to test shortly.

I would say the Bruce would work very well for you if you have a stern roller and will be stowing it there permanently. It's a great anchor for the PNW but it's awkward to move around and difficult to stow unless on a roller. 

The Fortress is probably the best choice because it is the lightest, stows well on a pulpit or in a locker, and works well in the sand/mud that covers 95%+ of the PNW. It's also designed to only need 6' of chain which is usually a plus on the auxiliary anchors. The main failing of the fortress is that it might not reset if pulled from a different direction but this is very unlikely if used as a stern anchor. 

Another good choice is the Manus. Assuming it is as good as the other next gen anchors Spade/Rocna/Manson it has the advantage over the other three of being able to be disassembled for storage. 

My secondarym kedge and my stern anchors are Fortress anchors for the reasons stated above. 

MedSailor


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

This really relates to the “Let's talk about anchors some more” thread on the Seamanship forum but as the issue is being discussed here, this is where I thought I would post. 

It makes me suspicious when I see a new member, Alternate Latitude, who has one post, praising Mantus, especially when there are certain things within that post that don't quite sound "right" … so, as I can’t go sailing right now, I though I’d look a little closer.

S S of Alternate Latitude used to own of a medical equipment supply company. 
Greg is a physician. 

One of S S business addresses is Seabrook, TX 77586
Mantus address is PO Box 1109, Seabrook, TX 77586 (BTW it always makes me nervous when a commercial entity only uses a PO Box as an address). 

I’m also a bit curious about red.sky. Joined Sailnet – 3 Mantus posts & 1 Mantus “like” - hasn’t posted since. Races in Galviston Bay and lists himself as a NASA Engineer. Guess where NASA’s Johnson Space Center is. Anyone guess Seabrook, TX? He’s been lurking so I wonder if he’ll post something else now I’ve drawn attention to him.

Hmmmmm!! Well, maybe it’s all just coincidence. What do you think?

And I also remembered something else…
From this forum: “We are going to offer a new promotion 25% off any anchor you buy for the next month only for SAILNET members.”

But at that time there was an offer already available and active on another forum: “Dear members of the ******** Forum, Mantus Anchors is offering 25% off all our anchors for members of this forum”

Hardly criminal but “only for SAILNET members” is somewhat disingenuous, don’t you think? 

Opinions? Am I completely off base?

EDITED BY CD: Removed Personal Info


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Welcome to the brave new world. Advertising has is going to find its way to your front door no matter what.

It was just easier to tell that is was an ad before and we knew to assume it was exaggeration or paid testimonial. How much does the guy get that says he loves his adult diapers on TV?


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Geoff54,

Thanks for yor research. Beginning to sound more and more suspicious if what you printed can be confirmed. I remember another anchor being vilified here for misrepresenting facts and themselves, which certainly was sped along by the companies arrogant main poster it's president. He was confrontational.

Now obviously these posters have learned from that mistake and a much better sweet talking and not making negative references as of yet bout their competitors so they have become ok in a lot of people's books. 

I ask the mods again....has this company been checked out to see if it and it's claims re legit or are we TS king they are at face value because they are a paying advertiser ? 

Secondly I am asking what,how much and who our information is shared with, and is it shared with paid advertisers on SailNet

Dave


----------



## Mike Banks (Aug 19, 2011)

I have no idea of the type of conditions you experience in the Pacific North West, but if your vessel is over forty feet might I suggest you already have a good spare anchor. What you do not have is an adequate bower anchor capable of holding you firmly and safely while riding out a storm. My vessel is a light trimaran weighing about seven or eight tons loaded--and my main bower anchor is a 60 pounds Manson on 100 metres of short link chain--with a further hundred metres of 20mm hard nylon rode to follow that of the water depth necessitates it. I get to sleep soundly at night when at anchor--but I do use an anchor release rope and float in case it does foul something on the bottom. In reef waters we have some things that take big bites and tiny things with fatal stings.


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Geoff54 said:


> This really relates to the "Let's talk about anchors some more" thread on the Seamanship forum but as the issue is being discussed here, this is where I thought I would post.
> 
> It makes me suspicious when I see a new member, Alternate Latitude, who has one post, praising Mantus, especially when there are certain things within that post that don't quite sound "right" &#8230; so, as I can't go sailing right now, I though I'd look a little closer.
> 
> ...


S S is a customer that wanted to help out and when he asked how he can help I suggested that we had some success with SAILNET and if he could write something on the forum I would appreciate it, the fact that he joined just to do that, well I think I will send him a gift 
He is actually a really cool captain with a newly outfitted Catamaran Voyager 44. He is looking for crew to take the boat to the BVI if any one is interested.

Red Sky is an engineer at NASA, its actually a "SHE"  who does consulting for Mantus and I disclosed it on Sailnet. See My posts about the bolts.

The first Deal we posted was "get the next size up for the price of this one"

After it expired we offered 25% off for one month only. We gave this offer to the Cruisers Forum as well. We were trying to get movement in the forums because its one of the few venues available to us for advertisement.

I hope this answers all the points....

Guys we have nothing to hide and we don't play dirty.....
We are a small privately owned company, I am an Emergency medicine doctor by trade and make my living working my day job, actually have to get up in 4 hours.
Anchor design was a hobby, I like solving puzzles and I wanted to make an anchor that has better setting ability than what's out there.
I am not here to full anyone, I just believe in this baby that's all.
You guys enjoy it out there and don't take life to seriously......!
BTW SAILNET is a great community and so far it has been a pleasure dealing with you guys! In fact this forum is where this company got its start!!!!
So thank you
Greg

EDITED BY CD: Removed Personal Info


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> From this forum: "We are going to offer a new promotion 25% off any anchor you buy for the next month* only for SAILNET members*."





> The first Deal we posted was "get the next size up for the price of this one"
> 
> After it expired we offered 25% off for one month only. We gave this offer to the Cruisers Forum as well. We were trying to get movement in the forums because its one of the few venues available to us for advertisement-Mantus Anchors


Can you explain the inconsistancy in these two statements?

*The following are questions about the company itself. Can you answer them?*

Where are the anchors made?
Why is the address a PO Box as opposed to where the anchors are made?
In order to speak with the company we have to do it through a website?
What corporate name is your business registered under?
Are you listed by the Better Business Bureau?

From your website:

WHY THE MANTUS?



> DIGS LIKE NO OTHER The Mantus Anchor is designed to penetrate dense grassy bottoms and set with unparalleled holding power. When tested, our anchors set faster and deeper than any other tested anchor, including Rocna, Manson Supreme, Bulwagga, Fortress, Bruce, CQR and Danforth anchors.


Can you please provide the information and the empiracal data for this claim. Who tested it? What were the conditions?


----------



## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Mantus Anchors said:


> ...Red Sky is an engineer at NASA, its actually a "SHE"  who does consulting for Mantus and I disclosed it on Sailnet. See My posts about the bolts...


Isn't Red.sky required to disclose her status as a commercial poster since she is receiving money from Mantus and creating commercial posts for them?


----------



## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

Chef2Sail,

Not sure what your burr in the saddle is, but to me, you seem a bit harsh towards Mantus.

Personally, I'm glad that Mantus has posted on this website, and that he saw fit to give Sailnetters (and Cruisers forum) a discount. He is trying to build a business and get his product out there. The situation is not at all unlike Rocna....lots of people beat up on the representative of that company in the way that he promoted his anchors....but there are now many more who swear by Rocna anchors. And then there's Manson Supreme, for which many people described as a knock off of Rocna and which rode Rocna's coat tail. But now there are lots of people who swear by Manson also. So along comes Mantus with a new claim (sets quicker) and a different construction for new generation spade types (bolted together). The company has run it's own tests like all the other companies and presents that data on its website. Have you gone to the website? It's evolving, not unusual for a new company. Want to contact them by other than website, call their phone number....it's listed. How many other companies out there selling marine components (don't limit to just anchors) are making claims, showing their data, and putting up slick advertisements for their products? Everyone one of them. Do you question each one of them?

I bought one of the anchors at the discount as a spare. Probably didn't need it, but in the back of my mind for a long time, I've felt (and seen data/calculations) that suggest that I might not hold in a named storm with my original set up. Along comes Mantus with it's bolted construction, and I said that would do the job in combination with my other anchors, and can be disassembled for storage in cockpit locker. I bought one. Mantus delivered exactly what they said they would and quickly. I don't know where they are made, nor exactly where their office is, nor what grade of steel or its origin is. If China, so what. Tell me how many things made today don't have some components from China or other off shore location.

As to the performance, I don't know. The anchor looks good, but I have not tried it. May not for a long time. But several long time posters on this site have used it and posted their initial impressions on the website. So far they have been positive and tend to support the manufacturer's claims.

As to the discount. Most of us have limited money to put into this hobby. Had it not been the discount, I would not have bought the anchor. I had looked at Fortress earlier for the same reasons as I did with Mantus....they disassemble for storage. But always the price placed it out of the range that I felt that I could spend on this item. Would you have rather that Mantus not offer a discount to Sailnetters? And so what if he offers it to others to move his product. When you buy a car and the dealer gives you a discount, don't you think he does the same with others?

Not trying to pick a fight, but you seem too hard on this guy. As to him misrepresenting himself, I don't see it. Even with his engineer posting. Lastly, but not least, look at the product and make up your own mind. If it looks good and you want it buy it, do it. Otherwise, don't and ignore all the reports about it.

p.s. In my email discussions with Mantus, he answered my questions promptly and he indicated that he would like it if I would post my impressions good or bad. I've done that....good or bad. And I don't see anything wrong with the product, but if there is something wrong or misrepresented, it's going to be posted all over these websites by posters/users who are more loyal to other posters than to any manufacturer. And being a new company, a series of bad reports would likely lead to product being more or less black listed within the sailing community.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

chef2sail said:


> I know this will open a whole Pandorras Box, but I am sure I am not the only person with this observation/ question. Maybe this should be a seperate thread
> 
> I am bringing particular attention to this because of the recent spade of Mantus posts which appear to be just advertisement for the sale of their product.. They may have a good product, not sure. Their literature is not unlike the liturature presented by the other two major " new anchors" over the last few years.
> 
> ...


Well, disclosure for everyone in case you didn't already know it. I do not work for Sailnet. All moderators are unpaid and uncompensated. Well, not true... I did get a free burgee once. I just want to make my disclosure so everyone understands there are no hidden agendas.

First, regarding Mantus: Thank you. Thank you for coming to our site and actually supporting it financially. In addition, thank you for taking the time to post in threads to help others out. I welcome your participation here.

Regarding the rules:

In general, if you are a paying advertiser, you can discuss your products here and put links, etc in your signtature. All we ask is that they openly disclose their affiliation (which Mantus has done). I believe most of us as sailors can make an educated opinion with where to spend our dollar from there.

As far as others in the trade participating here - we do not stop it. In fact, we encourage it. However, they cannot promote their wares. They cannot have links. This includes all commercial interests - even those non-sailing related. This often includes web sites where their signature links back to a site that sells things. We do our best to be fair with this as many blogs may have something for sale. We typically make that decision on one by one basis. Again, all we ask is that those involved in the marine industry post their affiliation so that anyone reading their comments can judge for themselves whether it is biased. Some do quite well with this system (ie, Bob Perry who is awesome). Others do their best to skirt the rules and often find themselves out of here (banned). I personally have never understood why some who are heavily involved in the marine industry and can really benefit out of SN don't take out an ad and instead try to skirt our rules. THe ads aren't that expensive... but I digress.

As far as what information is released - I am not sure that anything is. What information does Sailnet have about any of us? They certainly aren't giving out credit card numbers. As far as what we like, well, this is a sailing site. As far as location, google already does that and pulls your recent google searches and pastes them as advertisement. That isn't a Sailnet thing, incidentally.

Regarding the poster who did not put her affiliation in her signature, I will see what I can do about that. THat has to be done. I suspect that is an oversight on her part.

Regarding a company making claims about their product being the best ever or whatever, well, that has been going on since the cave men learned to talk and sell something. I think all of us have learned to take any company's or person's claims with a grain of salt. When Practical Sailor does its independent review, well, I will put a lot more weight into that. Until then, I will make my best educated decision, as I am sure we all do.

Regarding others coming on here to criticize a company or their product, well, that is a difficult one. We try to be fair about it. If you are simply laying out the events that happened and it is reasonable, we often let it run. If it is a, "Raymarine Sucks" kind of thread, well, we'll probably just pull it. Unfortunately and fortunately, Sailnet the forum is connected to Sailnet the store. As such, some companies like to throw out the threat of a lawsuit if anything negatively is said about them (true or not). The lawsuit is tossed at the store, not the person who made the claims. THis is because they perceive the store with the money... though the store may not even be aware of the post. The cost to fight the lawsuit is extraordinary (tens of thousands) while the benefit is almost nothing. That is why Sailnet often closes down threads disparaging companies. DOn't blame Sailnet... blame our legal system and lawyers who manipulate the system.

Hope that clears everything up.

Brian


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> Not sure what your burr in the saddle is, but to me, you seem a bit harsh towards Mantus.-NCC320


I have no burr in my saddle about this company, in fact am looking to perhaps purchase it also. If asking legitimate questions makes it seem that I am being harsh, and finding a misrepresentation in their advertising does also, I dont know how to address that other than it is what it is. I have never taken things on face value by themselves and feel my questions are appropriate in light of what they have written and advertised. They wouldnt be the first comapny to seperate people from their money with slick advertising and corpoarate sponsors.

I have 3 anchors, Primary being a NZ ROCNA and we all know how their story played out on here. I dare say it probably started with a few people like me who asked questions concerning their validity and test results. I beleive the same questions should be applied to this company. Dont extrapolate or read into my reasonable questions or requests for information to mean I have any agenda here, because I dont.

I am glad you are satisfied with your service from them SO FAR. Course you havent really used the anchor yet, but you glowing recommendation of them is a positive sign. Usually before I purchase something I check into the Realiabilty and stability of the company ( note my questions about the lack of listing with the BBB, the physical address for the company, and the inability to find them as a US listed corporation anywhere) Like you I dont have extra money to throw away on products or to companies who dont or cant honor warrenties, present inflated marketing claims without substantiation, and havent been tested independently. Having followed Mainsails posts over the years I do trust his judgement on a products, and am following closely his results with this anchor. he did one of the best independent tests on anchors I have ever seen. What intrigues me about this anchor is its ability to be dissassemled. My ROCNA is my primary and I have been estatic about its overall results since I purchased it (I would feel the same about a Manson, but the ROCNA from NZ I bought was on the market before they were). The shape and design of the new generation anchors I beleive is what makes them such an overall good anchor (bottom conditions do differ obn whats best specifcally of course) i. To be able to carry one dissassemled as a spare would give me extra piece of mind. Their ability to reset quickly I have seen demonstrated personally with mine.

It is obvious that your threshold for checking into a company isnt the same as mine, so please bear with me as I try and get my realistic questions arising from Mantus's own self serving postings by paid company members and encouraged subscribers answered.

There have been a few questions that I have and I hope that Mantus answers them as quickly as they respond to other posts so that I may move forward and purchase this anchor.


----------



## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

Usually before I purchase something I check into the Realiabilty and stability of the company ( note my questions about the lack of listing with the BBB, the physical address for the company, and the inability to find them as a US listed corporation anywhere) [/QUOTE] --Chef2Sail

New innovations and products often are by the new guy on the block...the small one who has limited resources (after all, it's a business and initially costs are high and sales revenue is limited at the start). And it takes time to build a successful reputation.

If one buys only from reliable/stable companies (which to me, implies a company that has been around for a long time), you tend to get warmed over product designs and preclude lots of innovative products. And reliability and stability of a company is often just an illusion anyway. Companies go under everyday, are bought and sold to new owners who may or may not honor warranties, and companies may drop product lines or product support on specific items at anytime. They also change manufacturing techniques and design.....smaill illustration: I recently bought an expandable boat hook. I had several from a well known supplier of these items and went out of my way to try to get the same boat hook that I had previously. Paid extra to get it. Description and pictures were same as the earlier model, which was very reliable and good. What I got for all my trouble was a piece of junk....not at all similar to the earlier models.

Like you, I try to buy products that are good and last, but there is always a risk regardless of who you buy from.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Brian,

Thank you for answering my question concerning our information and if it is shared with manufacturers or other entities.



> First, regarding Mantus: Thank you. Thank you for coming to our site and actually supporting it financially. *In addition, thank you for taking the time to post in threads to help others out.* I welcome your participation here. Crusingdad


I agree with this and would add, Thank you for helping yourself out financially (After all this is not charity work you are doing for us sailors)

Comparing this to Bob Perry posts where there is no financial sponsorship or gain is a joke. I also dont ever remember finding or anyone finding inconsistancies in Bob Perrys posts.



> Regarding others coming on here to criticize a company or their product, well, that is a difficult one. We try to be fair about it. If you are simply laying out the events that happened and it is reasonable, we often let it run. If it is a, "Raymarine Sucks" kind of thread, well, we'll probably just pull it-Crusingdad


If this is refering to my questions, I am asking simple questions about this company not criticising it. I would hope that normal questions which can be found in many threads similar to this does not evoke censorship because it is one of the vendors who contribute financially to Sailnet.

Here are my questions again. These are simple questions, easily answered. I will try to explain my reasoning fore asking them as it appears not to be obvious to some replying to this

*Where are the anchors made?*
- Their was great criticism of one of the new generation anchors when they moved their production to China and changed the metal content. There was no censorship associated with that previous thread

*Why is the address a PO Box as opposed to where the anchors are made?*-If there was a potential refund requested or problem all we have is a phone number and a PO address. We all know about boilerplate operations which work with offices in suites with phones who disappear in the middle of the night leaving people holding the bag. Just recently we had this suituation with a sail making company in which an large thread was generated without censorhip on here

*What corporate name is your business registered under? Are you listed by the Better Business Bureau?* I can find no mention of you. 
- Both of these questions relate to the legitamcy of the company and again protection for the potential consumer in purchasing. These are not out of line extrodianary questions, nor are they critical of the company

-*What grade of steel do you use?* Obvious question to compare with other new generation anchors ROCNA and Manson Supreme. I cant find these specs in the literature.

Lastly,
There have been inconsistancies in what Mantus posted and who is employed by them. It is their own posts which has caused some to question the companys statements. They said they were only giving a 25% discount to Sailnet members. This was not true whether intentional or not.


> From this forum: "We are going to offer a new promotion 25% off any anchor you buy for the next month only for SAILNET members."-Mantus





> The first Deal we posted was "get the next size up for the price of this one"After it expired we offered 25% off for one month only. We gave this offer to the Cruisers Forum as well-Mantus


.

Not all of their posters have identified their contacts or position with the company which was pointed out by someone replying to this thread. This violates Sailnet policies whether intentional or not

I would like to purchase this anchor and am asking the questions. These questions may be what others may already ask or want to know also. I did not expect this thread to generate so much negativeity.

Mantus, can you answer my four simple questions ( so we can move on from this) and I can feel confident in purchasing your anchor!!!!!!!


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

Mantus Anchors said:


> Red Sky is an engineer at NASA, its actually a "SHE"  who does consulting for Mantus and I disclosed it on Sailnet. See My posts about the bolts.


I apologize Greg - I missed that. Unfortunately, in a way that just makes things look worse. You see that was six weeks after her post where she misrepresented herself and spoke of you in the third person. With several posts by both of you in the interim and only after she slipped up and posted a technical response. Just in case you forgot, here is here post:

"I met the Mantus guys at our local Spring Fling event here in TX (Gulf Coast). Looks like a solid product with lots of Galveston Bay testing plus testing in Isla Mujueres. They are sized for use in real cruising/anchorage situations - where not dragging is critical. If you are a day sailor you could size down. They were also hopeful they'd be chosen for independent testing - those results should definitely be interesting!
Kinda cool an American start-up has taken on the New Zealand duo  "

Nice attempt to deflect while ignoring our concerns. I'll leave the rest for now.

Anything you want come clean about?

edit: fixed typo


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

Cruisingdad said:


> Regarding the poster who did not put her affiliation in her signature, I will see what I can do about that. THat has to be done. I suspect that is an oversight on her part.


Sorry Brian - Not an oversight but deliberate attempt to mislead.


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

chef2sail said:


> *Are you listed by the Better Business Bureau?* I can find no mention of you.


Hey Chef 
I agree with you on most of this stuff but not on this one. It costs to register with BBB, it's not cheap and in many cases, it's an unnecessary expense. I've owned two businesses and in neither case did I register. In my opinion, BBB exists to make money for BBB. BTW they will still record a complaint against a business even if the business is not registered - but one complaint in twenty years wasn't too bad, eh? Just to ensure nobody thinks that I am failing to disclose, neither business was marine related and I am now retired
Geoff


----------



## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

Chef2Sail, Geoff54,

The implications here, to me at least, border on some saying or implying that this manufacturer is either unethical, not delivering, or if delivering, is providing an inferior product by misleading people. Do you have any evidence of either not delivering, or that the product is inferior? Has he misled anyone on the product? I'm not aware of any such issues....to the contrary, he seems to be delivering as promised and early indications are that the product is as described. If he says steel is grade A and later he wants to change it to a slightly different grade B, or if he says parts are made in country C and for economic reasons needs to shift to country D, he has set himself up for criticism if he makes the needed moves. And if you know the Grade of steel being used and it is different from others, exactly how will you really know which is best? And likely, both grades are ok.

(Not sure why I'm even posting on the subject...guess it's just that it's a rainy day and I don't have anything else pressing),


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

To clarify Geoff54 posts on a previous thread (Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market... ) where Mantus anchors was deleted by a Moderator Jeff H because he was unaware that they were a new paid advertisor on Sailnet. It caused quite a stir and the Sailnet Adfministrator and other mods were involved. Mantus never came clkean at that time about Redskys reltionship

I agree with Geoff54 that there was purposeful deception and disagree with Brians statement



> Regarding the poster who did not put her affiliation in her signature, I will see what I can do about that. THat has to be done.* I suspect that is an oversight on her part*. Crusingdad


In the early parts of the thread Redsky posted as Geoff4 posts like just another sailor who met the "mantus guys" at a out like a third party



> Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No mention that Redsky is a consultant for Mantus. It is obvious Mantus knows and understands th policies of posters now as it was accidently aggreived by Jeff H, but they do not try and correct their person posting who has an obvious tie to the company as a consultant but acts like she just met them at a trade show.

It was Geoff54 who "sniffed out" the relationship


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

NCC320 said:


> Chef2Sail, Geoff54,
> 
> The implications here, to me at least, border on some saying or implying that this manufacturer is either unethical, not delivering, or if delivering, is providing an inferior product by misleading people. Do you have any evidence of either not delivering, or that the product is inferior? Has he misled anyone on the product? I'm not aware of any such issues....to the contrary, he seems to be delivering as promised and early indications are that the product is as described. If he says steel is grade A and later he wants to change it to a slightly different grade B, or if he says parts are made in country C and for economic reasons needs to shift to country D, he has set himself up for criticism if he makes the needed moves. And if you know the Grade of steel being used and it is different from others, exactly how will you really know which is best? And likely, both grades are ok.
> 
> (Not sure why I'm even posting on the subject...guess it's just that it's a rainy day and I don't have anything else pressing),


I have never said anything about the product because I have no basis on which to judge. I have no problem with commercial postings but I make no apologies for highlighting apparent deceptions and asking for an explanation. Integrity is everything.


----------



## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

As long a a vendor talks about their product and not the other guys I'm okay with that. Caveat Emperor and all that. 
The internet isn't free. 

Anchors depend on the bottom so type really is arbitary - size and holding ability not so much. 
I prefer my stern anchor to be lunch hook sized - good for normal weather conditions - and mostly rope rode. On the Gemini I mostly tied off to a tree as a stern anchor, but when I do drop a hook it's my #22 danforth style. The primary was a #25 Danforth on 25 feet of chain, so not much different. 

On the Irwin (20k displacement) I'm looking at one of those new roller types with 200' of 5/16 and 200 feet of 8 plait. The stern will be #35 danforth style hanging on the push pit rail with a rode of 10' chain and the rest rope. 
For a third anchor I'll use the #7000 pound ballast and stick her in the mud, probably not intentionally.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

NCC320. The reason I am asking about the grade of steel is that was a HUGE bone of contention in the differences between the original ROCNA and the Chinese one and the Manson Supreme. Rocna even allowed people who bought the Chinese ones to exchange their anchors I was asking hoping to find out which grade Mantus used.



> Has he misled anyone on the product? -ncc320


I have no knowledge of this

He has maybe mislead people on just giving Sailnet subscribers the 25% discount and more importantly he has mislead Sailnetters on Redskys identity.

I am more concerned about the product and have asked the obvious questions and am waiting for them to be answered. The only two complaints so far are from geoff54 and I as to the truthfullness of his posting not his product. I am awaiting Mainsails and word from SV Auspicious on any testing they have done on the product.

Let me reiterate I would like to buy this as you did as I would like to have a new generation style anchor like this which can be taken apart and stored to complement my Rocna as a backup. I am heartened by your positive dealing with the company. My considerations on buying are technical as to the bolts, holding power, grade of steel, shank strength. I have bought good equipment from unethical companies before ( ROCNA). That doesnt mean I like that as it made me uneasy about their warrenties, but I knew where their home base was and could get at them potentially if they didnt fullfill their promises.

While it is true of course no anchor is the panacea for all bottoms and conditions, some may be improvements on past ones and do better overall in a greater variety of bottoms. I cant carry 5 anchors on board so I want the best all around one. My personal experience has been that since the new gen achors have come on biard, that they hold as well as reset faster than previous bruce, CQR, fortress, danforth anchors I have had. Thats one persons personal experience as well as practical sailors and Mainsails reviews. Thats good enough for me. Different poeple have different opinions...thats why they keep making different anchors. Mantus new concept of having them being disassembled for storage is a great idea and something I am interested in.



> As long a a vendor talks about their product and not the other guys I'm okay with that. Caveat Emperor and all that. chucklesR


I am fine with competitors talking about what makes their product better as long as it is done without bashing the other. Who after all knows the better comparisons strengths and weaknesses better than someone technically versed in the equipment. This can be done without trashing the other product. Car dealers do it. Sailmakers do it, Electronics manufacturers do it, wind generators do it. If your product is superior why not compare it. Just dont lie about it. Dont falsify accrediting agencies. Have hidden add on prices etc.

I feel I am beating a dead horse so thats it for me


----------



## LinekinBayCD (Oct 19, 2009)

Chef 2sail the questions you asked were very reasonable. I'm interested in hearing their reply. Mantus will lose a lot of credibility if they dont repond.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Geoff54 said:


> Sorry Brian - Not an oversight but deliberate attempt to mislead.


Where is this thread? I looked back in this thread and it is not here. I am unaware of the circumstances of her posting. I did not participate in it.

Brian


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

chef2sail said:


> I agree with Geoff54 that there was purposeful deception and disagree with Brians statement
> 
> In the early parts of the thread Redsky posted as Geoff4 posts like just another sailor who met the "mantus guys" at a out like a third party


Well, I assumed that this redsky person was someone in here that got deleted and I did not see them. I am unaware of this other thread as I have never read it.

Brian


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Post 26

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-...r-next-generation-anchor-enters-market-3.html


----------



## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Maybe she has gone to sockpuppet heaven...


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

chef2sail said:


> Brian,
> 
> Thank you for answering my question concerning our information and if it is shared with manufacturers or other entities.
> 
> ...


Jesus, Dave! I feel like me and the other mods and Sailnet and Mantus all came under both barrells from you. I realize you cannot inflect tone in a thread, but Jesus!!

Ok, my POINT on the Bob Perry thing was not where Bob did things wrong, but that he did them right. Hes fun to have around and participates in all kinds of things. However, he COULD be on here sneaking in a "Let me design your next boat" kind of thing. But... he doesn't. I am not comparing Bob Perry's knowledge to Mantus. I am comparing what one person heavily involved in the marine industry that posts here (BP) does that is great and others (not Mantus, but I will leave them unamed for now) do wrong. I thought it was a great comparrison.

And regarding that bit about suggesting we will cesure you because Mantus has a vested interest... what was the last time we did that? But quite candidly, both as a member and a moderator, I am more apt to give the Mantus' of the world the benefit of the doubt than I am others who try to be sneaky.

I have not seen this read sky persons thread and that is BS if true. Maybe it is?? But that does not mean Mantus told her to do it. Maybe he should have gone back and clarified it, but hey, I screw things up on here all the time too.

I am not trying to take sides just because the guys is a paying vendor here. Quite candidly, I have no dog in that hunt. However, as stated before, I am more apt to believe a guy that at least tried to follow the rules here and support the site than many other well-known vendors that intentionally screw us out of it. _Intenionally!!_

Go easy on the guy fellows. I swear that if I was him, I would feel like I was facing the Spanish Inquisition. Hopefully the guy comes back.

Brian


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Chef and geoff,

I just read back through the post.

Red.sky should have released her affiliation with the company. We all agree on that one. I am putting a signature on her.

Brian


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Guys, I added her signature. 

ALso, I am off to finish home schooling for the day. I will try and check back in on this later.

Brian


----------



## Alternate Latitude (Sep 13, 2012)

Geoff54 said:


> This really relates to the "Let's talk about anchors some more" thread on the Seamanship forum but as the issue is being discussed here, this is where I thought I would post.
> 
> It makes me suspicious when I see a new member, Alternate Latitude, who has one post, praising Mantus, especially when there are certain things within that post that don't quite sound "right" &#8230; so, as I can't go sailing right now, I though I'd look a little closer.
> 
> ...


My Name is S S and YES, you are completely off base. I feel a little violated but understand that you can find a lot of information on the internet given enough time and energy. If you must know I have owned several companies, all located on the East side of Harris County, which encompasses Houston and the surrounding communities including Seabrook. One of my ex business partners address is actually the address in Seabrook. We used that address as our business location as I was out sailing in the Bahamas and Caribbean on a vessel called Anchor Management(feel free to look that up, great boat name but in no way related to Greg or Mantus).
I am not in any way affiliated with Mantus Anchors, period, end of story. I liked the anchor, told Greg this and he asked that I post something here on Sailnet. I thought I could also get some advertising for my charter business so why not. However I wasn't able to post the link but you can look up Alternate Latitude if interested.
I am not interested in continuing this discussion of whether or not I am involved with Mantus, I AM NOT!! If you would like more information about my personal life, my business interests or anything else for that matter I would ask that you contact me directly before making public assumptions. If you would like my lawyers info I can help you there as well.

EDITED BY CD: REMOVED PERSONAL INFO


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

Alternate Latitude said:


> My Name is S S and YES, you are completely off base. I feel a little violated but understand that you can find a lot of information on the internet given enough time and energy. If you must know I have owned several companies, all located on the East side of Harris County, which encompasses Houston and the surrounding communities including Seabrook. One of my ex business partners address is actually the address in Seabrook. We used that address as our business location as I was out sailing in the Bahamas and Caribbean on a vessel called Anchor Management(feel free to look that up, great boat name but in no way related to Greg or Mantus).
> I am not in any way affiliated with Mantus Anchors, period, end of story. I liked the anchor, told Greg this and he asked that I post something here on Sailnet. I thought I could also get some advertising for my charter business so why not. However I wasn't able to post the link but you can look up Alternate Latitude if interested.
> I am not interested in continuing this discussion of whether or not I am involved with Mantus, I AM NOT!! If you would like more information about my personal life, my business interests or anything else for that matter I would ask that you contact me directly before making public assumptions. If you would like my lawyers info I can help you there as well.


Gosh! Talk about touchy. I hope that I never bump into you in the BVI.

You did post the link and I did look it up. But I just posted a few easily verifiable facts and invited people in general and Greg in particular, to comment.

But wait! How did you know about this? Of course, your buddy Greg must have asked you to post again. I accept that you are not affiliated with Mantus and I apologize if I have slighted you but the gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.

edit: fixed a typo

EDITED BY CD: PERSONAL INFORMATION


----------



## LinekinBayCD (Oct 19, 2009)

Alternate Latitude said:


> My Name is Steve Schlosser and YES, you are completely off base. I feel a little violated but understand that you can find a lot of information on the internet given enough time and energy. If you must know I have owned several companies, all located on the East side of Harris County, which encompasses Houston and the surrounding communities including Seabrook. One of my ex business partners address is actually the address in Seabrook. We used that address as our business location as I was out sailing in the Bahamas and Caribbean on a vessel called Anchor Management(feel free to look that up, great boat name but in no way related to Greg or Mantus).
> I am not in any way affiliated with Mantus Anchors, period, end of story. I liked the anchor, told Greg this and he asked that I post something here on Sailnet. I thought I could also get some advertising for my charter business so why not. However I wasn't able to post the link but you can look up Alternate Latitude if interested.
> I am not interested in continuing this discussion of whether or not I am involved with Mantus, I AM NOT!! If you would like more information about my personal life, my business interests or anything else for that matter I would ask that you contact me directly before making public assumptions. If you would like my lawyers info I can help you there as well.


What statement did Geoff54 make that was inaccurate? I read his comments to suggest that your post were not totally independent and it seems he was correct.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Would everyone just chill out. Its starting to sound like some want to hold the Post Office responsible for sending them junk mail. 

Its pretty clear that Mantus is owned by a Doc who sell anchors as a side line. Low budget internet sales. Yes, perhaps there was some exaggeration. Yes, we may not have been the only place that was offered a discount. Do you think if you call in the next 10 minutes that that offer of cooking knives is really being held exclusively for you? Nothing new here.


----------



## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Wait, you can't stop it now - the mysterious Red.Sky has not made an obligatory appearance and given an entirely rational justification for her actions...


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Geoff54 said:


> Gosh! Talk about touchy. I hope that I never bump into you in the BVI.


In all fairness, Geoff, you just posted all his personal information (accessible through active searching or not) in plain view and basically accused him of Sock Puppeting for Mantus. I'd be a bit upset too - especially if it were not true. How would you feel if he just did the exact same thing to you? I'd be pissed! How many other members here post their full names on here, addresses, previous businesses, etc?? You are more than welcome to post yours. Good for the goose, and all that. Just don't post others.

BTW, I am deleting all the personal stuff.

Brian


----------



## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

american frog--- yes to bruce--is good for the sea floors found on west coast and will work for you looong time, as long as is the genuine bruce. for mexico and kali you have rocky bottom with mud and sand, bruce is perfect for the combination.


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

Cruisingdad said:


> In all fairness, Geoff, you just posted all his personal information (accessible through active searching or not) in plain view and basically accused him of Sock Puppeting for Mantus. I'd be a bit upset too - especially if it were not true. How would you feel if he just did the exact same thing to you? I'd be pissed! How many other members here post their full names on here, addresses, previous businesses, etc?? You are more than welcome to post yours. Good for the goose, and all that. Just don't post others.
> 
> BTW, I am deleting all the personal stuff.
> 
> Brian


No problem, Brian.

Everything that I posted was put in the public arena by the people concerned, either on Sailnet or other public postings on the web and is freely and easily available.

Anyone who wants to search for anything that I have posted anywhere in a public place on the web and re-post here, you have my express permission.

Geoff


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> Jesus, Dave! I feel like me and the other mods and Sailnet and Mantus all came under both barrells from you. I realize you cannot inflect tone in a thread, but Jesus!!-Cruisingdad


Aw common Brian, let me remind you the advice you gave me once...its only the internet''
Dont get so worked up and take your lords name in vain, its not worth that. After all its only he internet. We all know this isnt real world. I an suprised to see you go after me in a public thread, but I guess you are angry that you may have spoken in haste about Redsky and having it pointed out

In your anger you must have read what I said wrong...I wasnt at all criticising Bob Perry, who I have tremendous respect for and owned one of his designed boats and Islander 28 for years. I have heard him speak many times at seminars. One of the true gentlemen of sailing who can combine knowledge. experience and humor. You after all brought his name into it and I said there was no comparison to an honest man ( who doesnt try and sell anything in his posts) and the inconsistancies in the Mantus posts.

I am not attacking any moderators on here with both barrels, so dont bring all your friends into this. I have huge respect for all of them as well as you. We may not always agree, but dont make it personal. No need to assemble your forces here. I look to you guys to make sure that ALL people follow the rules of posting on here whether they are paying for ads or not. Its up to us to point out sometimes when we think there is a problem and for you and the other moderators to look into to it vs going into the defensive mode and ascribing intentions to people.

Brian, it was you who put yourself in the position of defending that the post by Redsky


> Regarding the poster who did not put her affiliation in her signature, I will see what I can do about that. That has to be done.* I suspect that is an oversight on her part*. Crusingdad


- It was no oversight.

I am questioning Mantus as people have questioned other vendors such as Rocna, Tartan etc. I have no agenda other that I want to maybe buy there anchor as I have said over and over again or doesnt that count.

I suggest you let this go as it serves no purpose or benefit for the site to make it personal. Feel free to call me if you feel the need to discuss further. You have my phone number. I dont want this to ruin our friendship.

*Now pleaase, back to the topic of the thread*. Would Mantus please come back and answer my realistic questions. Thats been my intention....to get information on this anchor and the company.

Dave


----------



## americanfrog (Sep 6, 2012)

Wow. Thanks all for the input. Storage is not an issue (very large accessible lazarette on the transom). I think am going to stick with a Bruce -- actually have one that i can pick up easily. Not partaking in the controversy on this thread, but duly noted regardless.

thanks all.


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Time to get the crappola about mantus into a thread of its own, not one asking about another style of anchor as a stern or backup or equal as the OP has asked about.

marty


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

blt2ski said:


> Time to get the crappola about mantus into a thread of its own, not one asking about another style of anchor as a stern or backup or equal as the OP has asked about.
> 
> marty


Yep, I think we owe the OP an apology for derailing his thread. Sorry Americanfrog!

BTW Brian - You missed Secret Squirrel's name and website on his original post - where this all started.

Geoff


----------



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

chef2sail said:


> I suggest you let this go as it serves no purpose or benefit for the site to make it personal. Feel free to call me if you feel the need to discuss further. You have my phone number. I dont want this to ruin our friendship.
> 
> *Now pleaase, back to the topic of the thread*. Would Mantus please come back and answer my realistic questions. Thats been my intention....to get information on this anchor and the company.
> 
> Dave


Ok Chef, I'll join for a round of fistcuffs myself as I have a point of order.

The original topic of the thread was NOT your questions. The original topic was what anchor would be suitable for PNW waters for a second anchor. I agree that you should give the doc a break here. I read this thread this morning (about 12 hours ago) and I just got back from my clinic and you've asked him to respond more than once in that time. He did post and say that he was about to go on shift you know, and I've worked in Emergency Medicine and know that world can be brutal! He might be sleeping right now.

For anyone who is interested, especially the OP, I will be (weather permitting) taking my Mantus anchor out and testing it this weekend. It might be of interest because I'll be testing it here in the PNW where the OP will be sailing.

Best Regards,

MedSailor


----------



## americanfrog (Sep 6, 2012)

hey medsailor, thanks and let us know how it goes.


----------



## Marcel D (Apr 15, 2012)

Wow Dave im in horrible disbelief that if you have a problem with a felo sailor promoting a better anchor that keeps me and my falmily off the beach is a problem. If so you are on the wrong site maybe a legal site is best for you. We are here to help each other out, and that is it. Maybe americanfrog has his foot in the door by the looks of things I want the same door. Any hope for me americanfrog I could do Canada PNW???? I can see alot of anchor changes with theses videos!!! anchor in future videos????


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

OK, guys .... To be honest I don't even know where to start...
I applaud you on your homework... I guess?
Facts: Red Sky consulted as a structural engineer for us... She never received any compensation for her advice nor asked for any and I am thankful for her help.... 
Steve Schlosser, and may be other people in Kemah, Seabrook area tried to help out in promoting Mantus Anchors and I thank them for it. We are a close cruising community and I appreciate all the support.
This is sad that its getting to this point, but Mantus Anchors is me trying to make something happen with the help of friends. I have never tried to deceive anyone and find the accusations, well.......... . Mantus Anchors is an LLC registered in the state of Texas. PO Box is the address because we are saving on office space. The LLC in my name and I have no employees the company makes no money and is completely supported by my work in the Emergency Room. I work my butt off because its my hobby and I like what I do. My address is EDITED ADDRESS by CD Texas, my email and phone number are available to you as well.....
The Mantus Anchors are made in China, Mantus Hooks are made in Lufkin, Texas.
I have nothing to hide nor nothing to prove, if you think its a risk dealing with a private start up well you are right and have every right not to do business with us.
I don't think we have had a dissatisfied customer yet... 
If you have a specific question about our product I will be happy to answer it, otherwise I don't feel I have any obligations to continue this conversation that I find disturbing...
Red Sky, Steve my apologies for getting you guys sucked into this...
Greg

EDITED OUT ADDRESS for VENDOR MEMBER PROTECTION


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Greg,

Thank you for posting and answering the questions. I appreciate your candor . I will be following up tomorrow over the phone to you. As I posted the idea of a new generation type anchor which can be stored and is made of good quality were of prime importance to me.

I noticed you were not on the list of vendors at the Annapolis Sailboat show in a few weeks. Will you be represented there?

Dave


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

Welcome back from the dark side - I guess? 
'Strongly suggest that you remove your home address - not a good idea - you never know who is looking - seriously. 
Geoff


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Med,

I know you are north of me a bit, Anacortes vs Edmonds, if you can figure out the soil type you are anchored in, let us know that too!

My personal bias is NOT to use a danforth style around here, as I have had more issues of the not setting than the bruce I use. I will admit, the fast set did a good job in the conditions I have used it one time. My lewmar bruce knockoff worked well at that place too, some others with danforth styles have had some issues. It is harder sand at this place.

My personal asking, is I have toyed with going to a slightly bigger main anchor than what I have, a main anchor frankly that is boltable for my usage might be a good thing. then again, maybe not...........Since I race most of the time, tie up to docks, a BIG anchor below is added ballast......but that is another issue that some do not want to address for they want BIG ANCHOR! or chain or some other issue.....LOLOL

Marty


----------



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

blt2ski said:


> Med,
> 
> I know you are north of me a bit, Anacortes vs Edmonds, if you can figure out the soil type you are anchored in, let us know that too!
> 
> ...


Good point Marty about the setting issue. I had almost forgotten about how much of an "art" setting the fortress can be. The Bruce has set for me in the PNW water in what seems to be a shank length or two, never more. The fortress on the other hand I have drug around trying to get it set. I also dived on it once and found it laying flat on top of the soft mud surface!

Say what they will about the Bruce not working well in soft mud. It wouldn't have been just sitting there, flat on top with it's thumb up it's fluke!

If storage isn't an issue than I'd say Bruce would be my recommendation to the OP based on the local area and on my personal experience. On the other hand, I've heard enough about the next generation anchors that they seem like a good choice too. I've got one now (Mantus) so we'll see if I convert to the new religion....

MedSailor

PS Marty are you racing in Edmonds on Oct 6? I will be down there on that day and if you're really interested in seeing the Mantus in person I could bring it down to you to have a gander at. Since it comes apart, it would be no trouble to put it in the car and it would be a good excuse to meet a sailnetter in person. That is *IF* any of you are actually real.....


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Oh yeah, will be racing! along with who knows what other stuff I need to do to get the party going, handing out purchased t-shirts friday afternoon at the marina as boats come in etc. I'll be in start two more than likely. ie FS short course. Where I have been the last 5 or 6 yrs.
Are you racing? if so what boat?

Marty


----------



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

blt2ski said:


> Are you racing? if so what boat?
> 
> Marty


I'll be on S/V Magician. You'll be able to identify us as our name is clearly printed on our transom. You may need binoculars though. 

MedSailor


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

well, get yourself registered, as of now that boat is not!

Registered Boats:

-105 Dragonfly

39 Eye Candy

54 First Light

57 Starblazer

72 Great White

81 Different Drummer

84 Taking Stock

90 Calypso

93 Dulcinea

93 Last Tango

117 Kiwi Express

123 Xcentric

135 Mistral

156 Izzara

156 JPeg

168 Kyrie

171 Sea Trek II

174 Cheetah

183 Sans Souci

195 Amoretto

222 Days Off

228 Sweet Jesus

237 Bandit, 243 Bingo

The 195 and 168 rated boats are SN members, along with literally across from ea other on E dock!

Marty


----------



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

blt2ski said:


> well, get yourself registered, as of now that boat is not!
> 
> Marty


Hmmmm..... Email to our captain has been sent. Perhaps he was too busy planning out superior strategy to register.

I also notice that our long time nemesis "Scotch & Soda" hasn't registered either. Maybe since the enemy isn't registered he hasn't either.

MedSailor

To the rest of sailnet: Yes I know we're taking this thread for a ride. It's not the first time it's happened though.


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

scotch and soda........hmmmmmmm yes I know that boat. He's beat me, I've beat him.......grrrrrrrrrr........prefer the drink! light air a cat 30 seems to get me, heavy air I do better. If you are FS, same div as me, NFS you will be in div 1 with Kyrie/deodenja, unless he is doing fs, in which case he would be in div3 more than likely.

Maybe mr frog should show up in his hunter! if he is not too far away, one of the more fun races in the sound!

Marty


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

chef2sail said:


> Greg,
> 
> Thank you for posting and answering the questions. I appreciate your candor . I will be following up tomorrow over the phone to you. As I posted the idea of a new generation type anchor which can be stored and is made of good quality were of prime importance to me.
> 
> ...


We started the process late and are on the waiting list for a Booth.....
I will let you guys know if we can squeeze in, definitely coming in the spring.
We will be at the Texas Coast Boat Show Oct 12-14 and Harvest Moon Regatta in Port Aransas.
Greg


----------



## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

What anchors to carry? The issue is that different anchors have different strengths. From what I've seen there are three overall types with variations.
Plow/delta/bruce etc. These anchors work in a variety of bottoms and reset more quickly than other types. 
Danforth/Fortress etc. These have, by far, the greatest holding power for their weight but need to be in sand or mud bottoms.
Fishermans/Northhill These anchors can set in a rocky bottom and punch into kelp. They tend to be heavy and run the risk of the anchor line wrapping the anchor stock when the boat swings.

You can find anchors cheaply at consignment places.
I carry one of each type. My regular hook is a Bruce which I use in anchorages at shorter scopes. My Fortress is also on the bow as a ready stand-by and for sandy bottoms. Stowed away is a folding Northill if I have to anchor in a rocky bottom. I also carry an old Danforth which I can hook in series with the fortress if I ever get stuck in reeeeely high winds. I think it's important to look at the rode and the cleating so that they are all up to what load the anchor can carry. I did the numbers and found the deck cleat wasn't up to what it would take in a blow.


----------



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

To the OP. While I still think the (genuine) Bruce is an _ excellent_ choice for a spare anchor in the PNW and if stowage isn't a problem, I did post a review of my recent usage of the Mantus anchor that I have been trying out on my bow (in place of my 66lb Bruce).

The link is here if it is of any interest to your cause:http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/85093-another-next-generation-anchor-enters-market-12.html#post925673

Medsailor

PS Maybe you could convince a dockmate of the advantages of the new generation anchors and when he unshackles his genuine Bruce you'll be poised to buy it from him!


----------



## americanfrog (Sep 6, 2012)

thanks MedSailor

Appreciate the link and advice. Bruce it is.


----------



## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

Just my 2 cents worth,

I have a Spade anchor and I love it. It does disassemble with one bolt. The anchor does not depend on the bolt for strength, only to hold it together while not under pressure. I cruise in the PNW and it has set the first time every time and never moved once set. I was thinking of a Fortress for the secondary but I may just get another Spade. While I do have 200 feet of BBB and 100 feet of rode, the Spade is designed to work with much much less chain and mostly rode. 

btw - I do not work for nor resell Spade anchors 

-craig


----------



## Mike Banks (Aug 19, 2011)

The performance of most anchors is enhanced by using a Kellick or Angel which is a weight of about twenty to thirty pounds which is placed in the anchor chain about eight feet into the chain from the attachment point for the rode, if you use nylon. This simple device upgrades any anchor system.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

We make use of a Kellet frequently. In areas of reversing current it help prevent anchor wrap aroung the keel/ prop. We have 75 ft of chain so most of the time our Kellet is slid down the rope anchor rode to a position 5 feet below the keel. It. We use a 10 mushroom anchor as the weight. 

Dave


----------



## Mike Banks (Aug 19, 2011)

Sounds good. I use mine on the bottom, but hanging it close to the bottom would still improve an anchor's holding capability. When the vessel surges back against the anchor on a wave, the weight lifts off the bottom and softens the shock. I also include an elastic nylon rode.

I do not think genuine Bruce anchors are made anymore in yacht sizes


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Mike,

You are correct in that genuine Bruce anchors are not made for smaller boats. BUT, one can get a lewmar or sea dog made version of them. Whether or not they are as good a quality, or design if you will is unknown to me. I do have a lewmar from what i can tell, works find for my useage, and previous owners useage. Altho if he bought the anchor when the boat was new, then it may very well be a genuine bruce, and I do not realize it at this time.

marty


----------



## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

blt2ski said:


> Mike,
> 
> You are correct in that genuine Bruce anchors are not made for smaller boats. BUT, one can get a lewmar or sea dog made version of them. Whether or not they are as good a quality, or design if you will is unknown to me. I do have a lewmar from what i can tell, works find for my useage, and previous owners useage. Altho if he bought the anchor when the boat was new, then it may very well be a genuine bruce, and I do not realize it at this time.
> 
> marty


one is still able to obtain GENUINE bruce anchors for cruising sailboats as used item. i love mine. is 30kg, or 66 pounds and does a great job of holding in the sea bottoms we have here.


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

zeehag said:


> one is still able to obtain GENUINE bruce anchors for cruising sailboats as used item. i love mine. is 30kg, or 66 pounds and does a great job of holding in the sea bottoms we have here.


That is true if one wants a used anchor.....if not, one wants new, then show me and others a place to get a 30kg bruce anchor new! Only from Lewmar or Sea Dog from what I can tell, and I will assume the Mike ment the same, ie no one builds/makes a Bruce new!

Marty


----------



## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

why would anyone ant to buy a NEW anchor??? it gets used hard and put away wet. new anchors are status symbols for those who do not sail far or use an anchor.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

zeehag said:


> why would anyone ant to buy a NEW anchor?....


Because you can't find the style and size you prefer on the used market.

Anyone have a used Canadian-made Rocna 40 available?


----------

