# lazy jacks



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Can anyone help me with finding lazy jacks for a Hunter 30 at a reasonable price? I''ve surfed around the net and can''t find anything much under $260. 

Also, how difficult are they to install from a kit, and does installation require any alternation to the sail itself?

Thanks,

Dave...


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## RichardElliott (Sep 24, 2001)

Try EZ Jax, Camas,WA. They advertise in Cruising World. Their jacks retract and can be set from the cockpit.


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## obiec (Sep 26, 2001)

they are real simple to build yourself I am not sure why any boady buys them.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

hi dpierce 

youz can order lazy jacks at Euro 99,--
from www.compass24.de - i think it works !

best regards
fei


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## Nereus32 (Jun 23, 2002)

[No message]


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## Nereus32 (Jun 23, 2002)

I agree w/ obiec. Why spend $100+ for a one-size-fits-all kit that might not fit, when you can spend $20 on some line and hardware and make it custom to you needs?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Nereus32
Do you have plans for these $20 Lazy Jacks? Can you see a way to modify them into Eazy Jacks? I am not wanting to pull my battens so I can have Lazy Jacks.


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## eds928gt (Sep 28, 2001)

The Lazy Jack designs I''ve seen can be used on mainsails with full or partial battens. 

I''ve been amassing all the required parts to make my own Lazy Jacks. The total will probably be around $50 for the blocks, eyes, cleats and line needed on a 12'' boom and a 51.5'' mast.

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I have never installed Lazy Jacks because of all the negitive write ups I have seem here and on other message boards. People saying the battens are always foiling when trying to raise the main. I have also heard that Easy Jacks have corrected that problem letting the jacks slack as the main is raised. I would love getting the sail off the house top as I am bring my boat in after a long day on the water I just don''t see this small convinance worth the time money and trouble.


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## eds928gt (Sep 28, 2001)

To each their own. However, I''ve a friend who''s been sailing for about 20 years. Since he sails single-handed quit often, he decided to install a Lazy Jack system. He told me it was one of the least expensive and most useful modifications he''s made to his Lord Nelson.

Considering that the cost for all the material will be about $50, I can''t see how I can go wrong installing Lazy Jacks. ;^)

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Lazy jacks are a to each his own kind of thing. As someone who has sailed for over 40 years (time flies when you are having fun) and who single hands my 38 footer a lot, I find lazy jacks a real pain in the butt and a bit of a safety hazard for a singlehander. If I bought a boat with lazyjacks they would be first thing that I would remove. (Come to think of it I did buy a boat with lazyjacks and they were the first things that were not reinstalled when we stepped the mast). Then again I would not own a Lord Nelson on a bet either, so, what the heck, to each his own.

Jeff


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## pblais (Jul 19, 2002)

My lazy jacks are on halyards so I can tighten or loosen them. With a full batten main I loosen the jacks and pull them back behind the winches to hoist the main and avoid battens hung in the jack lines. I was on a small Hunter last week that fouled the battens real easy. ven at that it was not toodifficult to have the right touch to get the main up. Without batten cars it didn''t come down all that easy but did contain the main from laying all over the boat.

Going down is no problem at all. With batten cars and lazy jacks if you lower the main she is going down straight and fast. That is really nice.


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## eds928gt (Sep 28, 2001)

JeffH:
You usually provide good advice on many sailing topics, but I think your remark about "Lord Nelson" boats was uncalled for.

It''s ok by me that you don''t care for them, but your remark seems to imply that they are "bad" boats. I (and many others) do not think they are "bad" boats. They are indeed heavy, but they are solidly built, and have a very nice motion in a seaway. They were built to be used as passage-makers, and for that (I think) they are ideally suited.

They may not win many races, but those who sail them can rest assured they''ll arrive wherever they intend to go, even if it takes a bit longer. When I think of comparing a heavy boat to a lighter one, I think of the "Tortoise and the Hare" story.

~ Happy sails to you. ~ _/) ~


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I think that your point is well taken about my comment on the Lord Nelson''s. My comment was only intended to illustrate that we all have our own ideas about what works best for each of us or what suits our tastes. It was not intended as a wholesale slam on Lord Nelson''s nor were my comments intended to suggest that I think the Lord Nelsons are inherently "bad boats''. 

Just for the record, the reason that I would not own a Lord Nelson on a dare has little to do with the Lord Nelson''s speed or lack there of. My dislike of the Lord Nelsons center more on certain construction and design decisions which I personally consider to be ''deal breakers'' in terms of being unacceptable to me. 

I also consider the Lord Nelson''s roll and pitch patterns to be a very uncomfortable pattern to me and one that I personally would never choose to take offshore. This like or dislike of certain roll and pitch patterns is another matter very much subject to opinion and taste. 

I would like to explain why I believe that roll or pitch motion comfort is subjective. One of the items that came out of US Navy research on motion sickness is that various individuals tolerate motion in different manners. There are two factors that control motion comfort, 1)speed or accelleration during the roll or pitch cycle and 2) the angle through which the vessel moves. They found that a near equal amount of people who tolerate quicker accelerations really can''t handle large roll or pitch angles and that others can handle large roll or pitch angles but can''t tolerate quicker motions and then there are still other people who can''t tolerate either. 

Boats like the Lord Nelsons tend to roll or pitch more slowly but through a wider angle than would be expected in a lighter boat with a lower VCG. To many that slower motion is a more comfortable roll or pitch motion. But many, like myself, personally find these wider roll angles to be a less comfortable roll and pitching motion and at least in my case is one that really grinds me down quickly compared to the slightly quicker motions of a properly designed modern boat. Furthermore, some of the better modern designs not only roll and pitch through narrower angles, but because of their very low vertical center of gravity and carefully designed roll and pitch dampening characteristics also roll and pitch more slowly as well. In fairness, because of their lighter weight these modern designs do tend to have faster heave speeds but comparatively speaking in a general sense heave tends to be an inherently slower motion anyway.

I apologize, that after rereading my comments, it would appear that they could easily be construed to imply that the Lord Nelsons are inherently bad boats. They are not. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Still, if any one has a list of parts and matierals for a retractable set of Lazy Jacks I am still intrested. $50 sounds like a pretty good deal..


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## eds928gt (Sep 28, 2001)

I don''t have the Lazy Jack plans right in front of me, so forgive me if I leave anything out that may be important.

First, you''ll have to decide just how far up the mast the top line will be connected or drawn through a block. In my case, I''ll probably connect 1/4" line to eyes screwed into the mast on each side 25'' up. Those lines will be about 15'' in length, and on the end of each of line will be a single small block. I''ll likely put a continuous length of 1/4'' line through the blocks to form the inverted "V" on the boom. That line will about 50'' in total length, as it has to go up, down, and around the boom twice. I''ll probably install a hook (facing aft) about 3'' on the bottom and from the end of the boom. I''ll probably install an eye about 4'' from the front end of the boom on on each side of the boom. Lastly, I''ll probably install a cleat that will be used to keep the system taught when in use. When the system is not needed, I''ll just slacken the line on the cleat, and move it forward of the boom, then tighten it again, and sinch it up tight on the cleat. If I''ve left anything out, I''ll get additional hardware (like more hooks or cleats) as the need arises.

Anyway, so far the list of hardware is comprised of 4 eyes, 2 small single blocks, 1 small hook, and 1 medium cleat. Lastly, it looks like I''ll need about 80'' of 1/4" line. Based on this list, I estimate the total cost to be about $50.

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~


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## eds928gt (Sep 28, 2001)

Now that I''m looking at my Lazy Jack plans I''ve revised the previous message to the one below.

First, you''ll have to decide just how far up the mast the top line will be connected or drawn through a block. In my case, I''ll probably connect 1/4" or 5/16" or perhaps 3/8" line to eyes screwed into the mast on each side about 25'' up. Each of those lines will be about 15'' in length, and on the end of each of line will be a single small block. I''ll likely put a continuous length of the line (probably the same size) through the blocks to form the inverted "V" on the boom. That line will be about 50'' in total length, as it has to go up, down, and around the boom. I''ll probably use a medium sized cleat for to hold fast the open ends of that line. That cleat will go onto the boom about 4'' from the aft end, but clear of the main sheet. I''ll install hooks (facing forward) on either side of the boom about 4'' from the front end of the boom, but clear of the boom-vang. When the system is not needed, I''ll just slacken the line on the rear cleat, and move the lines forward of the boom, then tighten it again, and sinch it up tight, probably on another cleat that I will install on the mast below the boom. If I''ve left anything out, I''ll get additional hardware (like more hooks or cleats) as the need arises.

Anyway, so far the list of hardware is comprised of 2 eyes, 2 small single blocks, 2 small hook, and 2 medium cleats. Lastly, it looks like I''ll need about 80'' of the line. Based on this list, I estimate the total cost to be about $50.

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~


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## mdriscol (Mar 28, 2000)

*Joining In*



928frenzy said:


> To each their own. However, I''ve a friend who''s been sailing for about 20 years. Since he sails single-handed quit often, he decided to install a Lazy Jack system. He told me it was one of the least expensive and most useful modifications he''s made to his Lord Nelson.
> 
> Considering that the cost for all the material will be about $50, I can''t see how I can go wrong installing Lazy Jacks. ;^)
> 
> ~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~


I don't see how you could go wrong for that money either. It's rare that one can do anything on a boat for that!
I'd love to make lazy jacks for my pocket cruiser, Lilliput. When she's in the water(not this season) I usually sail her alone. I've crewed on offshore deliveries and my experience with lazy jacks was positive. Can you steer me to the directions for them.
I've just discovered these forums, tho' I've belonged to SailNet for several years. Going to be a frequent visitor from now on!

Enjoy the short season.


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## FrankLanger (Dec 27, 2005)

*Jeff, please provide comment on lazy jack systems....*

Jeff, I have always appreciated your posts, even if you sometimes express strong and personal opinions. You did clarify your comment on the Lord Nelson boats (interesting), but for purposes of this post, I am also interested in why you dislike lazy jacks--I recently purchased a 30 foot boat, without lazy jacks, and have been encouraged by others to install them as I do alot of single handing. I do have concerns about them interfering with the mainsail--both when raising the sail, but more importantly, when I want to let the main out on a broad reach. Therefore, I have not bought them, though I do find my mainsail hard to flake and manage on my own. Any comments to help me decide?
thanks,
Frank.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I, personally, like having lazy jacks, as it makes it far easier for me to drop the main and reef or furl it. They can cause problems if you are trying to raise or lower the mainsail, and it has battens...but over all, I prefer to have them.


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## jgeltz (May 11, 2006)

I may be selling mine since I am ordering a stack pack which will come with a new lazy jack set. Let me know if you are interested.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

If the elusive half knot is what you seek, then lazy jacks are not for you. If ease of handling the main is, then lazy jacks do the trick. On my previous boat, a Hunter 26 I had lazy jacks with a full batten main. To keep from having the battens catch when raising, I would loosen them, then tie them off in front of the mast before leaving the dock. Then tighten them back up to lower. On my current boat, I have a Doyle StackPack, as well as the StrongTrack system instead of battcars. Again, a full batten main. As long as you're pointing into the wind, the sail goes right up without catching the battens. And with the StrongTrack, comes down easily and cleanly. Much simpler system than battcars.

As a singlehander, I find the lazy jacks to be a big plus. They aren't for everyone though, and if not well installed, can more of a hindarance than help. The biggest problem with having them, is you need to modify the sailcover.

Regards,


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

ONe other thing...the equipment required for lazy jacks are:

1/4" line
2 Eyestraps or blocks for the mast
2 cleats for the mast
2 or 3 eyestraps for the boom, depending on whether you want two legs or three on the lazyjacks
2 or 4 stainless steel rings

Make sure the main line for each set is long enough that you can loosen them and lead the lazyjacks forward to the mast, to make raising the sails easier.


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## Sasha_V (Feb 28, 2004)

the tension on lazy jacks can be run back to the cockpit, so that they can be slacked when hoisting the main. I did ours fomr scratch and I think it cost about $30Australian. The coolest aspect of the home made version I have is that the line that normaly just runs vertically down the mast in commercial models is the inner jackline in my system, so for the most part the things are self tensioning. A few other little details that work in with the boat's peculiarities and my own preferences make the system just right. Having intalled a kit for a friend's boat, I much prefer just buying the bits you need and doing it from scratch.

Sasha


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## Ronbye (Nov 16, 2005)

I made my own using only line and a couple of SS eyes. My lazy jacks do not retract, and this has not been a problem. The way I installed my lazy jacks was keeping it simple. I ran a line around the mast over the top of the spreaders and brought each end to within 30" above the boom at its midpoint. Tied a bowline at each end. Then I tied a line to the bowline and went under the boom thru an eye that I installed and back up to the other side to the other bowline and terminated that line. I did this two more times so that I ended up with 3 triangles, alongside the lenght of the boom. The lines are not tight but relatively slack. I have been doing this now for 5 years with no problems.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

Just a couple of points:

Try have hardware that won't chafe the sails because you don't want to loosen the leeward lines too much and that generally means they will be against the sail. Little pulleys will probably feel better to work with but stainless eyes present less chafe.

I always put the boat head to wind when hoisting the main and the only time the lazy jacks interfere with the battens is if there is a solid blow and the leech flaps around a bit. 

Construct the lazy jacks so that the general line of the back lines kind of follows the shape of the leech and about two feet in. Use three triangles to achieve this if you must. The further down the boom you can support the bunt of the sail, the better.

The leeward lines should never interfere with the boom when running off the wind (FrankLanger) because they obviously move with the boom. If they tend to go a little tighter, loosen them.

And the comment (I think Jeff?) that jackstays are not so great for single handers, the first pair I fitted for single handing after years of sailing without them had me wondering why I hadn't done this years ago. I'd never sail without them again.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

lazyjacks or jackstays? There is a difference. Lazyjacks are the lines that contain the main sail on the boom when you lower it. Jack stays or jack lines are the lines that you attach a safety harness tether to. I believe both are very useful on a shorthanded boat.


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## KAYAKDAN (Jun 21, 2005)

Here are the plans I used on my 26M. I modified them slightly,using quick clip caribiners on the lines to the upper blocks. I can disconnect the lines,bungee them to the reefing hook,and take up the slack of the bungee line on the boom wrapping around a cleat on the boom
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/cgi-bin/modtracker.pl?action=view&record=298


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I also agree with just making them, it's easy, and be sure there easy to remove from the boom, while hoisting the main, I see so many sailors getting there sail hung buy the battons on them things, so get them out of the way before you raise the sail


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## drynoc (Jul 17, 2001)

*Lazy Jacks*

I made my own for about $50, and they work great. Do a search on the net and you will find several different sites that talk about installing them, and have pictures. I used the EZ Jacks that I saw at the Annapolis boat show last year as my model. (They have a website with some pictures, but that site is only moderately helpful.) I extend mine only for the purpose of lowering the sail. When I moor, I fold them along the boom and mast out of the way, they don't interfere with sailing, and they aren't needed for any other purpose. There is no need to modify the sail cover.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

*Ez Jax*

We have EZ JAX (ezjax.com) and are quite satisfied. Without EZ JAX, the sail when dropped was a real hair-ball to tidy up. EZ JAX need not be deployed when sailing and do not require sail-cover modification. We do sometimes deploy the EZ JAX when reefed, which eliminates the need to tie up the excess sail at the boom.


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## dave6330 (Aug 16, 2006)

I own an Omega 36, bought used a couple of years ago. The boat was owned by a couple that were very much into racing, but my interest is in easy cruising.

Our boat has a home-made system consisting of an elastic bungy cord attached to either side of the boom with a ring fitted mid-way on the cord on each side. There is a line with a hook attached to the mast below the first spreader that, when not in use, is secured to one of the shrouds. When we want to set it up, I have to get up on the coach roof, untie the cord from the shroud and stretch the bungy cord up to reach the hook. I have to do this on both sides of the boat. The advantage in this is that once the sail is up the whole thing can be detached so there is absolutely no chafing on the sail. The disadvantave (from my novice point of veiw) is that I have to leave the cockpit to set the system up (or knock it down) and, if the conditions are a little rough, it doesn't fully contain the mainsail.

I'm thinking about replacing it with a Mack-Pac. Toughts/Recommendations?

V/R


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

One thing you can do, is take the system down before leaving the dock. Then you only have to put it back up for lowering the sail. I bought a Doyle StackPack for my boat, and have been very pleased with it. It's set up so you can easily loosen or tighten it, and could even be run back to the cockpit if desired (I haven't).

You sail out of Seward or Whitter when you're stateside?


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

We've got a homemade version of a StackPack too, built a couple of years ago - the integral sailcover has definitely made us more willing to raise the sail even if we're going just a short distance. One of the best returns on investment we ever put into the boat.


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## dave6330 (Aug 16, 2006)

PBzeer said:


> You sail out of Seward or Whitter when you're stateside?


John,

I sail out of Seward. Currently deployed in Afghanistan and missing the season. 

What's the difference between the Doyle and Mack systems?


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

The Doyle system has a membrane that holds the sailcover to the sail when it's raised. It's my understanding that that is unique to them. Other than that, I think all the "Pak" type system are pretty much the same.

Hope you don't have to go back on the waiting list when you get back. I lived in Anchorage for 22 yrs. Lot shorter drive to Seward now than when I got up there. They had just finished the part between Bird Creek and Girdwood the year before I left. What a difference!


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

The lazy jacks that the riggers installed on my boat last winter have NO HARDWARE except for the eyelets on the mast and boom to which they attach, and the cleats on the boom for tieing them off. The lazy jacks are made out of rather slippery spectra line, and the various interconnections are made with eye splices, the line just running through with no metal rings nor any blocks. Nothing to chafe on the sail, although when sailing we generally loosen them and pull them forward to the reefing hooks at the gooseneck. 

We pull out the lazy jacks when ready to drop the sail, and then once the sail is down and secured to the boom with sail ties, we loosen the lazy jacks and pull them forward to the mast again so they are out of the way of the sail cover. 

We do sometimes have the problem of the battens getting caught when hoisting the sail, but that can largely be addressed simply by the helmsman keeping the boat head to the wind, keeping an eye on the sail going up and steering such that the battens stay out of the jacks.

Regards,

Tim


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## dave6330 (Aug 16, 2006)

*Still on the list*

Not to worry, even though CIRRUS may be on the hard while I'm out of town, we're still on the wait list. Maybe in five or twelve years we'll get a slip.

However, I WILL look into the relative cost and virtues of the MackPack vs. the Doyle System. Taming my mainsail is going to probably do more than anything else to increase the enjoyment I get out of taking her out.

Thanks a lot.

V/R


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

We also have spliced eyes in place of blocks on our lazy jack lines. With a little care in heading into the wind when raising sail, snagging the full battens isn't really a problem.

The mainsail setup is simple in design, uncluttered and will be easily replicated on our mizzen, which at the moment lacks this convenience.


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