# Fraud on the hook



## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Local Man On The Hook For Boat In Anchorage | TownDock.net, Oriental NC

sucks.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

For sure sucks. Even if Ott wasn't in on the original scam, he's clearly scum for taking expensive advantage of someone who was helping him.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

Wouldn't surprise me a bit if this guy's boat sunk while he was spending the money from that check at the local bar.


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## MarioG (Sep 6, 2009)

Meet the guy last spring and didn't like or trust him then. Heard stories about him being a pain and made suggestions on how to get him out of Oriental (my home port).
I know he and his wife have been there far to long for their travel visa's to be good.
Now I hope someone does something about them.


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## krazzz (Jul 17, 2013)

I think I know a boat that should "accidentally" get off the hook while their owner is visiting the Tiki Bar. Or maybe it would have a bilge pump failure while taking on a little too much water.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

$400 was collected from cruisers at the Hampton Snowbird Rendezvous ( Hampton Snowbird Rendezvous - Home ) last weekend to help make Pat whole.

We look after our own.

Ott needs to move on, or better face the legal consequences for his actions.


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

Wow. I hope they resolve it soon.

Couldn't they haul/confiscate the boat in order to get the money back?


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

> *
> Couldn't they haul/confiscate the boat in order to get the money back?


I think there has to be some due process first, like a civil suit and a liability finding?


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Unbelievable...

Yes, they have overstayed their visa by several months, ICE has been notified, apparently with no result...

One solution, surprising it hasn't been tried in a town as small and close-knit as Oriental, would be for the local businesses to band together, and simply refuse to take their money, or do any business with them whatsoever... Sure, let them try to bring a discrimination suit, whatever... Monique was arrested back in the summer for shoplifting from a local market, I doubt that would bolster their case...

Classic example of one look at the boat, saying it all... 

Here's more, from earlier in the year... This clown claims to have sailed thru Hurricane Sandy, and offered to assist the BOUNTY, but the CG waved him off... Yeah, right...

Primadonna | The Shipping News | TownDock.net, Oriental NC


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

erps said:


> I think there has to be some due process first, like a civil suit and a liability finding?


But this is the court of the internet where all are guilty till proven innocent.

I doubt the boat is even enough to cover the check. Sad situation.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk


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## DosEquis (Oct 21, 2013)

The story indicated that some work had been one on the boat, right? Think this would help? I'm sure there's paperwork but in Cruces, we don't even have to prove the debt. I owned a business and almost placed one on a property then. Got worked out with the threat. Sad it had to go that far.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Sad story for sure. In more than one way.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Rhapsody-NS27 said:


> Couldn't they haul/confiscate the boat in order to get the money back?


Did you see the picture of the boat? I'm not sure it would be worth it...


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

JonEisberg said:


> Unbelievable...
> 
> Here's more, from earlier in the year... This clown claims to have sailed thru Hurricane Sandy, and offered to assist the BOUNTY, but the CG waved him off... Yeah, right...
> 
> Primadonna | The Shipping News | TownDock.net, Oriental NC


LOL. Not on THAT boat. :laugher


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

It isn't even a Joshua! It may be a red steel boat, but not built as the article states.
It would take an incredible amount of paperwork to seize a foreign registered boat; easier to just have ICE deport them.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

In some states, if you pay with a bad check, it's treated as larceny and they lock you up. Seems like the police should be stepping in to straighten it out.


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## timtim (Dec 16, 2012)

Has this issue been cleared up yet? If it has not, I would seize all property to sell off to recover funds lost. 
If he still has item he was to sell on ebay, he scammed you. 
I have a friend ........ , I could send him your way,


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

You know, I understand that Stockwell was just trying to help someone out. Certainly an admirable thing. And I feel sorry for the guy. But co-endorsing a check for someone you do not know EXTREMELY well is a little bit like sending your bank information to a Nigerian Prince.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Yep,
Said to say but Pat should have held the cash the two-three days until the check cleared. 

As to Ott - he may be innocent of knowingly committing fraud, but he's certainly guilty of bad ethics and character. It would be one thing if he was buying food and parts - but hanging out and relaxing is a stab in the eye. His business should be refused.

Once the word is out he'll be shunned in most communities without trial or a chance. 
That's punishment enough perhaps.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I must say that anyone who cashes a personal cheque without waiting for the funds to clear is asking for trouble. I mean really, what sort of a complete idiot would do that ?


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Welcome to the state of immigration today. Illegal Mexicans are here killing citizens and there is no outcry, yet this bum raises hackles?


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

xort said:


> Welcome to the state of immigration today. Illegal Mexicans are here killing citizens and there is no outcry, yet this bum raises hackles?


If you know of any "illegal Mexicans" who have killed anyone on a sailboat, please post the link. Otherwise you should save this sort of stuff for a different forum.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Rhapsody-NS27 said:


> Wow. I hope they resolve it soon.
> 
> Couldn't they haul/confiscate the boat in order to get the money back?


Did you see the picture of the boat?


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

Sal Paradise said:


> Did you see the picture of the boat?


I believe I read it's a steel boat. So if not the value as a boat, then maybe the value as scrap along with a possible lead keel.

But since it is a foreign registered boat, I'm sure there is plenty of legal issues involved before it gets to that point.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

A lien on the boat might make it difficult for the Otts, and should be possible one way or another. Then if ICE came to follow up on their visa violation, they wouldn't be able to leave on the boat because it could be locked to the mooring. Nasty set of circumstances.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Let's be reasonable folks. 
Liens, taking possession and all that stuff takes a day in court, and a day in court takes months to get. 

All you can do is apply pressure to the wound and stop the bleeding.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Could we apply a tourniquet to Mr. Ott's neck to stem the loss of blood from his body to his brain?


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## ThickAndWide (Aug 8, 2013)

It's hard to keep reading about these people's treatment of their NC hosts.

It's surprising no one or group has had the wherewithal to see a solution brought about for this. I'm not talking about ICE, or other pigs either.


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

That just sucks. Hope he gets justice.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

If he was American this would have been dealt with long ago. Illegal aliens are getting free passes.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

denverd0n said:


> You know, I understand that Stockwell was just trying to help someone out. Certainly an admirable thing. And I feel sorry for the guy. But co-endorsing a check for someone you do not know EXTREMELY well is a little bit like sending your bank information to a Nigerian Prince.


I'm with you. In fact, I don't know anyone for whom I would endorse a check for nearly $3K. If a close friend needed a little cash to tide him over until his check cleared I would loan him fifty or a hundred bucks and file it away as a gift.

As friend Orvil once said: "Never, ever, go on the hook for more than you can afford to take out of your pocket and give away."


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

xort said:


> *If he was American this would have been dealt with long ago.* Illegal aliens are getting free passes.


BS Xort.

You are smarter than that. How would you like to be run out of the islands because you passed a bad check? It can happen.

Either way it takes someone to actually *press charges *- something NOT done here. You can't take legal action without a crime. ICE can not become involved without a reason either.

This incident is about a cruiser who needs to be watched so he does no further harm, not about a foreigner committing alleged crimes.

Keep the politics to the OT threads.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

chucklesR said:


> ICE can not become involved without a reason either.


That is correct. But isn't overstaying a visum exactly the kind of stuff that ICE is supposed to act upon?

I would see the situation differently. If those two were not French and white but nationals of a third world country and black or hispanic, maybe the ICE would have found it necessary to intervene


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> That is correct. But isn't overstaying a visum exactly the kind of stuff that ICE is supposed to act upon?
> 
> I would see the situation differently. If those two were not French and white but nationals of a third world country and black or hispanic, maybe the ICE would have found it necessary to intervene


I don't see it that way.

If I wrote you a bad check it would still take you MONTHS to do a damn thing about it. Not being American does nothing to change that. 
Even the sheriff in the article expresses his concern that Otts might himself be a victim.

We do not KNOW the status of his visa status. I don't work for ICE, do you?
Some law enforcement agencies are not allowed to request legal status/green card/visa doc's unless an arrest is made prior to the request.

I used to run databases for related federal agencies, it's not as simple as you think. No one is running around checking visa's folks - not even for "I think he's illegal" finger pointers - and no actual charges have been made.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

chucklesR said:


> I don't see it that way.
> 
> If I wrote you a bad check it would still take you MONTHS to do a damn thing about it. Not being American does nothing to change that.
> Even the sheriff in the article expresses his concern that Otts might himself be a victim.
> ...


Nope, I don't work for ICE. But the newspaper reports showed an immigration stamp from some time last year (September, I think) with a validity of 90 days (again, I think). So, unless they renewed the visa (which nobody claims), we DO know the status of their visa, it is expired.

And, again I am certainly no expert (don't even play one on TV), but I would think that ICE is allowed to request to see the visa status. If not there would not be much justification to even have the agency.


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## lancelot9898 (Dec 30, 2008)

Did that couple actually sail that boat across the pond??


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> Nope, I don't work for ICE. But the newspaper reports showed an immigration stamp from some time last year (September, I think) with a validity of 90 days (again, I think). So, unless they renewed the visa (which nobody claims), we DO know the status of their visa, it is expired.
> 
> And, again I am certainly no expert (don't even play one on TV), but I would think that ICE is allowed to request to see the visa status. If not there would not be much justification to even have the agency.


See, no - you don't know the CURRENT status of his visa, or if one is even required. You know what her status apparently was in May of this year. 
Anything else you assume.

Besides which um, they don't expire. A tourist from France is granted a 90 visa if they apply. If they don't apply - and oh BTW - a visa is NOT required - then the common practice is to stamp the PP with a 1 year period.

Wanna guess what happens when the year is up?

IF they go to a embassy and ask it gets renewed for a year. It's a tourist visa. If they don't go to an embassy and ask, nothing happens. 
Even if they are arrested.
Charges were dropped, no crime was committed from a legal point of view.

I'm not defending these guys, Heck I posted the thread!
I'm saying ya'll need to quit hollering about do this and do that when the law protects them just as much as anyone else.
Facts folks, facts.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

chucklesR said:


> See, no - you don't know the CURRENT status of his visa, or if one is even required. You know what her status apparently was in May of this year.
> Anything else you assume.
> 
> Besides which um, they don't expire. A tourist from France is granted a 90 visa if they apply. If they don't apply - and oh BTW - a visa is NOT required - then the common practice is to stamp the PP with a 1 year period.
> ...


I had a post typed up that said about the same. The only thing we know is that a check bounced. We don't know who wrote the check, and if it was forged. All we know is that that check was returned, and apparently according to the article that there are some irregularities with the check. Now of course Ott should have returned any money that he had left from the check. We don't know if he did or did not. I am confidant that the police are trying to figure this out. If it was fraud, that is no small matter and will be determined.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

chucklesR said:


> See, no - you don't know the CURRENT status of his visa, or if one is even required. You know what her status apparently was in May of this year.
> Anything else you assume.


Yup, I _assume_ that the status is as it has been described in the local press, that they have not renewed their tourist visa, see link below. Do you have any information to the contrary?



chucklesR said:


> Besides which um, they don't expire. A tourist from France is granted a 90 visa if they apply. If they don't apply - and oh BTW - a visa is NOT required - then the common practice is to stamp the PP with a 1 year period.


You know, um, I have news for you: Visa do expire!

In this particular case, it expired March 13 this year: Primadonna | The Shipping News | TownDock.net, Oriental NC

More news: You are right that under some circumstances tourists from France do no need a visa since they may be allowed in the Visa Waiver program, see Non-Immigrant Visas | Embassy of the United States Paris, France. But this is only valid for stays up to 90 days. Which would have been up even earlier, December 13 2012.



chucklesR said:


> Wanna guess what happens when the year is up?
> 
> IF they go to a embassy and ask it gets renewed for a year. It's a tourist visa. If they don't go to an embassy and ask, nothing happens.
> Even if they are arrested.
> Charges were dropped, no crime was committed from a legal point of view.


I have no idea if an immigration violation is a crime but severe cases are surely grounds for deportation.



chucklesR said:


> I'm not defending these guys, Heck I posted the thread!
> I'm saying ya'll need to quit hollering about do this and do that when the law protects them just as much as anyone else.
> Facts folks, facts.


I know you posted the thread. But your posting gives the impression that you consider obeying immigration laws of this country as optional.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Mast, take your politics to OT. You don't know me from Adam.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

chucklesR said:


> Mast, take your politics to OT. You don't know me from Adam.


1) Do I have to know you so you allow me to respond?

2) What does this have to do with politics? I thought we were discussing a legal question, how long a foreign sailor is allowed to stay in the US with a tourist visa, and whether it is acceptable to break the laws regulating non-immigrant status. What is your definition of 'politics?' And what is your definition of 'your politics?'

[OK, I give you one thing, my suspicion a number of posts ago that authorities might see this situation differently if they were not white Europeans but 'colored' nationals of a third world country can be considered political. But neither you nor anyone else reacted to this so don't accuse me of wasting time or bandwidth]

3) Your post, to which I replied, ended with "Facts folks, facts." I provided facts. Among other things, a link with a picture of the expired visa and another one to the US embassy in France explaining visa regulations.

What facts did you provide so far in this thread? (other than starting it for which I give you credit).

You don't seem to like facts. Or at least not if they don't agree with what you like to think.

But it's fine. I understand very clearly that you don't want to hear from me any more. Wish granted.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Just and update - they got a tow to Morehead city - painted/repainted the boat red (instead of the pinkish faded red).

Note to self, painted the boat - but did not fix the engine (which only needed 20 bucks and some twine or some such).


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## nccouple (Jun 11, 2011)

Here's the latest about Primadonna. Primadonna's Latest Controversy | TownDock.net, Oriental NC I didn't even know there was already a thread on here until I searched it. I've been following this story for a long time on towndock.net . In the words of Earl Hickey its karma.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

nccouple said:


> Here's the latest about Primadonna. Primadonna's Latest Controversy | TownDock.net, Oriental NC I didn't even know there was already a thread on here until I searched it. I've been following this story for a long time on towndock.net . In the words of Earl Hickey its karma.


WOW, Karma, but also a note on who to watch out for. 
Salvage is salvage, but this isn't salvage it's thievery.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

chucklesR said:


> WOW, Karma, but also a note on who to watch out for.
> Salvage is salvage, but this isn't salvage it's thievery.


I agree completely. Salvage is a contract, not a free for all.
That woman really upset me with her blatant delight at another's misfortune, no matter the back story. Not exactly someone I'd feel very comfortable sharing an anchorage with. Maybe we cruisers should be wearing wreaths of garlic and carrying blessed crucifixes?


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

capta said:


> I agree completely. Salvage is a contract, not a free for all.
> That woman really upset me with her blatant delight at another's misfortune, no matter the back story. Not exactly someone I'd feel very comfortable sharing an anchorage with. Maybe we cruisers should be wearing wreaths of garlic and carrying blessed crucifixes?


Yep, a good reason to be observant about who is sailing around you. Not everybody operates on the same moral code.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I do believe in karma. Do unto others...... Primadana had it coming. I have no sympathy for them. I doubt France will want them back either. I bet a Bahamian jail isn't much fun.

However, I could not imagine climbing aboard a boat and taking things, whether I knew the salvage rules or not. The crew of Fata Morgana are thieves. No matter how remote, I would be wondering if her crew was about to return with a tow vessel any minute. 

I will give them this much faint credit. I doubt they mentally processed what they were doing was wrong. Could make them incredibly naive, with low moral values, or the worst of criminals. I'm guessing the former.


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

What does stealing stuff off of a boat have to do with "salvage?"

Is the boat "sunk" or just "grounded?"



capta said:


> I agree completely. Salvage is a contract, not a free for all.
> That woman really upset me with her blatant delight at another's misfortune, no matter the back story. Not exactly someone I'd feel very comfortable sharing an anchorage with. Maybe we cruisers should be wearing wreaths of garlic and carrying blessed crucifixes?


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## Atlas (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm glad to see that most sailors (and most notably Pat Stockwell) are appalled by the behaviour of the _Fata Morgana_ crew.

One would expect Stockwell to draw some grim pleasure from the fate of the _Prima Donna_. However, he seems to be built of nobler stuff. Thumbs up to him!


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

What they did was out and out piracy/theft there was no possible way to have gotten a signed salvage contract with the Otts and to do the breaker bit they would have had to first salvaged the vessel and gotten a release from a maritime court to break the vessel to recoupe expenses incurred during the salvage operation. There are specific maritime laws concerning that. However I doubt anyone will do anything for this perticular incident. I do however feel that the crew of the fata Morgana will not be welcome into any anchorage where their exploits are known. I would be afraid to leave to reprovisision for fear of them " salvaging my vessel as well"


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> I do believe in karma. Do unto others...... Primadana had it coming. I have no sympathy for them. I doubt France will want them back either. I bet a Bahamian jail isn't much fun.
> 
> However, I could not imagine climbing aboard a boat and taking things, whether I knew the salvage rules or not. The crew of Fata Morgana are thieves. No matter how remote, I would be wondering if her crew was about to return with a tow vessel any minute.
> 
> I will give them this much faint credit. I doubt they mentally processed what they were doing was wrong. Could make them incredibly naive, with low moral values, or the worst of criminals. I'm guessing the former.


Frankly, this event somewhat validates the old saw "What goes around, comes around" so I have no sympathy for the interred yacht owners what-so-ever.

As to the "wreckers", wrecking is an old, long practiced tradition in the Bahamas, extending back to the 1650's at least. Entire communities developed and survived, if not thrived, on the practice. Coming upon what was pretty clearly an abandoned wreck it would not be unreasonable to assume that one might take something of value. It is not something I might be inclined to do, but...considering the openness with which the crew of Fata Morgan related the event, there was clearly no criminal intent.

Similarly, if one were to come upon the long abandoned Swan Wolfhound at sea and go aboard and take some of the gear, would that be criminal? Would it be later if the abandoned yacht fetched up on some shore (as it may sooner or later)? I don't think so.

So I would not be too quick to make judgements, eh?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Voodoo was a long practiced tradition in the Bahamas as well, although, they called it something else. Yesterday's practices, don't make them right today.

These "wreckers" were from Canada or the US, I believe? No excuses. Taking from the misfortune of others violates the cursing culture, which I've found is more willing to help than harm. There are abominations in everything and they are just that, along with the jailed crew of Primidana. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

If the boat was healed over and barnacles are growing in the cockpit, then I consider it fair game. What they did was awesome, and I am jelly I was not there first. I would have gotten an extra kick had I seen the name and made the connection to these scum. they are not sailors. They need to go back to france, and live in an apartment, and earn a living honestly.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Bahamas? Follow UK precedent and have a "keeper of the wreck" perhaps?

It would help to know what the legalities are about taking things from a wreck in the Bahamas. Who knows, the Bulgarian expats might find themselves in the cell next door to the Frenchmen.

Karma, nyeh?


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

The cursing/cruising community I know would work together to get that boat off the reef and secure it in a place where the owners would have a chance of retrieving it. 

I am flabbergasted that someone would boast about stealing from someones home and do it online.


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

TQA said:


> The cursing/cruising community I know would work together to get that boat off the reef and secure it in a place where the owners would have a chance of retrieving it.


No, but you have a good point, we should work to get it off the reef, and sink it. It will make a nice home for a new reef. The previous owners should be banned from sailing due to poor character.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

When anchored vessels come ashore in English Bay or Kits (Vancouver) at night, the "salvagers' are on board by daybreak. The authorities apparently don't know or care about Canada's Receiver of Wreck laws. The unwashed masses seem to agree. Sounds like piracy or just plain theft. I could go on about Canadians mindset in this regard but I don't want to wax political. (So your car broke down and I sold the tires and rims while you called CAA ??)


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Capt Len said:


> .......(So your car broke down and I sold the tires and rims while you called CAA ??)


That is the perfect analogy here. Despite the fact that they don't deserve sympathy.


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## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

Karma schmarma . . . do any of you really believe the universe is structured to satisfy any of our petty score-keeping? There was no grand tradition here, this was theft pure and simple. The Bahamian law is perfectly clear. And, not for nothing it wasn't theft of a meal or even money to support a habit. It was theft by relatively wealthy foreign cruisers on an expensive multihull who went on to justify it and even brag about it on the internet like a bunch of highschoolers videotaping themselves playing mailbox baseball. They had the luxury of adult brains, financial security, a life of leisure and they still stole. Simply pathetic if you ask me.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I would suspect the locals haven't salvaged the wreck (refloated it) because it technically isn't abandoned, as the owners are detained not simply absent by choice. And that someone in the government there may be thinking, if they allow the vessel to deteriorate, by whatever means, well, that pretty much helps to ensure the invaders won't be coming back again, doesn't it? Without the expense and nuisance of the usual legal process.

Pursuing the Bulgarnadians, might be seen as counterproductive towards those ends.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

hellosailor said:


> I would suspect the locals haven't salvaged the wreck (refloated it) because it technically isn't abandoned, as the owners are detained not simply absent by choice. And that someone in the government there may be thinking, if they allow the vessel to deteriorate, by whatever means, well, that pretty much helps to ensure the invaders won't be coming back again, doesn't it? Without the expense and nuisance of the usual legal process.
> 
> Pursuing the Bulgarnadians, might be seen as counterproductive towards those ends.


From what we have heard the Bulgarnadians are in the DR or possibly beyond.
They will not be pursued by any government for this crime, I am sure, but the tiger rarely changes it's stripes, so I doubt that this is the last we have heard of their misadventures. I shall certainly keep a look out for Fata Morgana down this way. How about anyone spotting the boat give a heads up on here, please.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I am sure it is not to anyone's advantage, much less interest, to pursue them. But in or out of the venue, they're still border hopping, and borders make for easy places to assert arrest warrants. On the vessel, as well as the crew. It simply is more advantageous, less expensive, to let them roam. And let the Frenchmen go after them.(G) 

I wonder, who was it that first said "Karma's a b'tch." ?


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

Well said. These people are thieves.



blowinstink said:


> Karma schmarma . . . do any of you really believe the universe is structured to satisfy any of our petty score-keeping? There was no grand tradition here, this was theft pure and simple. The Bahamian law is perfectly clear. And, not for nothing it wasn't theft of a meal or even money to support a habit. It was theft by relatively wealthy foreign cruisers on an expensive multihull who went on to justify it and even brag about it on the internet like a bunch of highschoolers videotaping themselves playing mailbox baseball. They had the luxury of adult brains, financial security, a life of leisure and they still stole. Simply pathetic if you ask me.


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

I am wondering if this constitutes piracy in which case the offenders' vessel may be subject to arrest.



hellosailor:1819762 said:


> I am sure it is not to anyone's advantage, much less interest, to pursue them. But in or out of the venue, they're still border hopping, and borders make for easy places to assert arrest warrants. On the vessel, as well as the crew. It simply is more advantageous, less expensive, to let them roam. And let the Frenchmen go after them.(G)
> 
> I wonder, who was it that first said "Karma's a b'tch." ?


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

chucklesR said:


> WOW, Karma, but also a note on who to watch out for.
> Salvage is salvage, but this isn't salvage it's thievery.


Yes, if they were "salvaging" the boat, they would have had to removed the boat from the reef. They then would be able to take anything of value to cover there expenses, but would have been responsible for disposing the hull. Seems no one involved here seems to have any sense of responsibility except for Pat Stockwell. Stockwell seems to be taking responsibility for trusting these idiots. Though it sounds like he has received some of the money from the local cruiser community. But to not hold a grudge, I think he is a better man than myself. I personally would like to buy that guy a beer if I ever make it down there!


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

miatapaul said:


> Yes, if they were "salvaging" the boat, they would have had to removed the boat from the reef.


Is the boat FC? If so who wants it? If it is aluminum I will be right over with scuba gear and float bags


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

it's a steel boat.


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## sailorbill1 (Feb 6, 2014)

Get the plank out


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

joethecobbler said:


> it's a steel boat.


poor reef. at least it will not remain there above water long. Is it still floating at all? If it is they need to move it before 12 months are up. It will most likely be holed within 12 months of having the paint come off.


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

doubt it's going anyplace. too remote, and the boat likely isn't much of a prize, it sat in Oriental,NC. on the hook for a year. hard to say when it had any love before that.


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

My theory would be warmer water, coral cutting the metal. It could degrade at 1/4" a year. Or more given the movement on the coral. Just a theory thou.


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