# 77 Catalina 30, Whats it worth?



## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

I went to look at a 1977 Catalina 30 I found on craigslist in my area. I currently live on a Catalina 27 and I am looking to upgrade. I just was wondering if I were to make an offer, what would be a fair price.

Heres the ad:

1977 Catalina 30 sloop rig w/inflatable dingy $15,000.00 OBO 
LOA-29’ 11” 
Beam-10’ 10” 
Draft-5’ 3” 
Displacement-10,200 lbs 
Coastal Cruiser 

New bottom paint 11/07, new floor in cockpit 08/08 

Engine: 
Universal m18-14hsp diesel fresh water cooled 
20 gal fuel tank-plastic 
Gauges in cockpit-temp., oil, tack, amp 
New Oberdorfer Sea water pump 4/01 
New exhaust 2008 
Rebuilt started 2008 
12 volt system-3 batteries-1, Trojan SCS225909, 2 deep cycle marine batteries 

Sails and rigging: 
Full batten main with reef system and jiffy blocks 
135% Genoa, rolling furler, extra main sail and 110% Genoa 
New rigging 08/09, upper and lower shrouds and back stay 
Garhaoer traveler mounted on top of cabin 
2 primary barlough wenches #20 
2 lewmar self tailing 2 speed mainsheet wenches 

Electronics: 
Raytheon ST4000 auto helm 
Standard horizon eclipse VHF radio w/swing out speaker 
Ritchie compass 
Garmin GPS #2010 chart plotter 
AMFM CD player w/2 speakers 
Horizon, digital speed & dept gauges 

Safety equipment: 
4 PFD’s type 2 
1 Life sling 
2 fire extinguishers 
Emergency tiller 
1st aid kit 
Stainless steel gunwale ladder 
12v bilge pump 
Rule manual bilge pump located in cockpit 

Head: 
New stainless steel sink and mirrors 
Whale manual pump 
new groco pump 6/08 
30 gal holding tank 

Galley: 
Origo 2 burner stove, alcohol 
Built in ice box 
Double stainless steel sink 
Manual gusher fresh water foot pump 
15 gal fresh water tank 
plenty of storage 

Great boat for fun and comfort! If you know of Catalina 30, you know the room! 
Head room below 6’3” 
Lots of interior room 

Located in Gulfport FL 
Call for more info and leave message 727-733-1776 
No reasonable offer refused.

I thought the asking price was a little much before I even saw the boat. I asked around some of my friends around the marina who are much more knowledgable than I, which confirmed my suspicians. 

The boat was in overall decent shape. The interior had some nice custom work with plate glass doors separating the head area from the V-birth (Im assuming custom, because I never found another Catalina with the same). 

The interior was very bear bones otherwise with no liveaboard accomidations, no AC power except something he rigged up to plug an extension cord into the cockpit to feed a couple outlets inside (no breaker panel, inverter or switches). He said he was an electrician after he showed me that.. lol

It did have a Univeral 14HP diesel which started up fine and ran well. 

Bilges were clean and the keel bolts looked brand new, even though he swore they had never been replaced. (?)

The DC electrical system only consisted of 2 deep cycle group 27s with no charger, and one starting battery (little dissapointed there).

It will be due for a bottom job soon, last done 3 and a half years ago.

The decks were solid with the exception of one approx. 2 square foot area forward from the mast where there was some delamination. (Not too worried, shouldn't be too painful of a repair given the location.) And it didnt give the impression there was alot of rot below. The decks also need paint, but it looks fair. Standing rigging looked brand new, chainplates looked dry and the bulkheads solid.

The cockpit floor was redone, which is now solid, but not done by someone not too gifted with fiberglass, a little bumpy and slanted in spots....

Given all this mentioned, I'd like to give him a fair offer, but I really don't think a fair offer is even near the $15000 neighborhood. Im thinking $9-10,000Am I wrong? 

I would greatly appreciate any input.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

A diesel that appears to have been maintained and runs well is a big plus.. for you the lack of refrigeration, and proper AC power facilities is a minus.

The rough glass work in the cockpit sole is definitely a bargaining chip, and can be cleaned up and faired with a bit of work and patience, esp if repainting the decks is in the cards anyway.

It's a bit tough to answer your question... prices on these boats vary widely regionally. Based on the text of the ad and not having seen it, around here that would be a reasonable starting price with a diesel. However in the US these boats seem to generally be priced relatively low.

Given the willingness to entertain offers, there's nothing to be lost by trying it on at your suggested numbers. In all likelihood you'll end up somewhere in between.

You've given it a good going over, but still recommend you get a proper survey and haul it to look for the usual... blisters, keel joint cracks, etc. If the bottom hasn't been done in a while you'll have to have it cleaned to check all that, so it's gonna cost you a bit to do that.


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## sailjunkie (Nov 4, 2009)

Even allowing for differences between Cdn and US $, that asking price seems very low, even for a 1977.

Then you mentioned the repairs that had to be done, and the repairs that had been done. OMG! It doesn't sound like the person doing the work knew what they were doing,

On top of that, the boat hasn't been hauled for several years? This isn't looking good, and I haven't even asked how many hours are on the engine.

While your Catalina 27 (great boat, BTW) experience will serve you well, unless you really like projects, this may NOT be the boat for you.

If you decide to go ahead, make your offer subject to a hull survey and full mechanical inspection. From the sound of it, the investment of a few hundred dollars could save you several thousand dollars. After all that, you will have some peace of mind because you will have a pretty good idea of what you are getting into.

That's my $.02 worth. Hope it helps.


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

I didn't think about the regional price differences.... Around here, or at least it seems to me, these boats are priced 15-20 IF..... they are excellent condition and well equiped. It does have a chart plotter and autohelm, but its missing some more elemenary and important things...... Ive been told by the guy I was going to hire for the survey that I shouldnt spend more than 8 or 9 thousand for a boat of that year. I feel like that is a low ball offer, but at the same time, Hes been buying and selling boats longer than Ive been alive and Im still new at this. I was thinking $10,000 as a good price. I don't mind a few projects. I feel like a properly installed shore power system should be a given for a boat that size so Im dissapointed, especially for the asking price, that it doesn't have it....However, I worked for an electrician for a couple years, my dad is licensed, and dont mind doing some wiring....I completely rewired my boat (AC and DC) last year. And I don't mind the cockpit floor, it is very solid under your feet, it just needs to be faired out a bit.... Id probably cover it anyway with some woodwork down the road.... These things I mentioned more as just bargaining chips....I might try and offer 9 and try to meet him at 10 or 11...I just wanted some input here....


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

sync said:


> I didn't think about the regional price differences.... Around here, or at least it seems to me, these boats are priced 15-20 IF..... they are excellent condition and well equiped. It does have a chart plotter and autohelm, but its missing some more elemenary and important things...... Ive been told by the guy I was going to hire for the survey that I shouldnt spend more than 8 or 9 thousand for a boat of that year. I feel like that is a low ball offer, but at the same time, Hes been buying and selling boats longer than Ive been alive and Im still new at this. I was thinking $10,000 as a good price. I don't mind a few projects. I feel like a properly installed shore power system should be a given for a boat that size so Im dissapointed, especially for the asking price, that it doesn't have it....However, I worked for an electrician for a couple years, my dad is licensed, and dont mind doing some wiring....I completely rewired my boat (AC and DC) last year. And I don't mind the cockpit floor, it is very solid under your feet, it just needs to be faired out a bit.... Id probably cover it anyway with some woodwork down the road.... These things I mentioned more as just bargaining chips....I might try and offer 9 and try to meet him at 10 or 11...I just wanted some input here....


Sync,

If what you say is true about regional prices, find some comparable boats for sale that are cheaper and show him that when you make your offer. He probably has some wiggle room.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

If you do a significant amount of motoring, I expect that you will find that 14HP isn't enough to move the boat effectively through any kind of wind or chop.

It takes 20HP to do that in a Catalina 30.


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## delite (Nov 2, 2009)

Take a look on yachtworld.com there are a number of 1977 Catalina 30's listed with a wide price range from $8k to $20k depending on shape and equipment. I would agree a 14hp sounds under powered. We have a 9.9 hp yamaha on our Catalina 27 and have to be careful of tides through the narrows and it makes slow progress in chop


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Wow...

I've been following the market really closely for the past five years. That is when the wife and I started shopping around. We have bought and sold two and are on our third.

What has been really interesting is to watch the prices plummet since the crash in 2007. The boat you're looking at would have sold for $10,000.00 more than they are asking just five years ago. There are such deals out there, but there aren't that many that have been able to take advantage of them. Or at least that many that were willing to make sacrifices in their lives to take advantage of them. Seems that one of the first things to go when the finances have become tight are the boats and the marina dues.

That said, without pictures it is more difficult to tell what is really going on. Those of us that have learned the hard way how to do an in-water inspection might notice things in pictures. It may be a really great deal, but I have seen and been on some fixer uppers in that price range that are closer to the 40' range.

Take your time and keep a sharp eye out. There are some great deals as the bottom falls farther out of the market.


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## CatalinaRob (Jun 25, 2010)

I think your strategy of offering 9 is sound. The cons on this boat are as follows (I'm basing this off my experience and my '78 Catalina 30):
- Hull inspection for blisters and keel issues (keel bolts should be replaced because in '77 they used iron - Catalina Direct sells a kit for this)
- Per above re the engine, it will be underpowered if you plan on motoring much. If you could live with 5 knots and its reliable, then good.
- AC Shore power is a good negotiating tool; I rewired my entire DC and added AC and its not that difficult if your handy (have a certified electrician review everything)
- Refrigeration - I would think you need this if your going to live aboard so price that accordingly.
- Deck - any compression wear / cracks at the mast base?
- Deck - core issues as described
- Battery and charging - could be another $600 here if you need a charger and have to replace the banks (depending on age).
- Canvas / dodger - what shape is it in?

Overall though - The C-30 is a great boat and plenty of room below for the size and price so enjoy it!!

- Rob


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

One other important thing to check. Since the boat is pre-1985, there's a good chance that the keel stub is reinforced or built with marine plywood rather than solid fiberglass. That means this boat will eventually suffer from the Catalina "SMILE", which occurs when the plywood gets wet and rots and allows the keel to sag. IIRC, they changed the keel stub design in 1985 or thereabouts.

*If this boat hasn't had the keel stub re-built, then you have to factor doing that into the cost of buying the boat. *


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

Wow, awesome wealth of info....as usual....

I had no idea about the keel stub, that is interesting... the delamination was a few feet from the mast step and wasn't too bad.....If I bought the boat, I would definitely fix it soon, as Ive seen that stuff get worse in a matter of months.....

The motor isn't much of a concern, I just really want diesel... Im not so thrilled about the idea of an Atomic4. Anyone like them? I figured it was kind of a step down from a diesel...

My attitude on the whole thing even before I looked at it is....If the boat needed nothing major, I would gladly spend 15K....But considering the stuff it needs and the approx. $ needed to do it...

AC electric - maybe $400
Refrigeration - I don't mind just finding a place for an AC minifridge....$100-200
Deck work and paint - $200-300 and a lot of time..
Batteries - for a boat that size, I think 2 8D's and a starter battery with appropriate chargers is more of a standard....That's what it should have....and that's at least $1000... Right now, he has 2 group 27 deep cycle batteries, one starter battery, and no charger....basically, just enough to run the Nav lights, a GPS and a few fans for a day or two..They are sitting below the settee, unsecured in plastic boxes...I wasn't too impressed.
Also, it hasn't had a bottom job in 3 and a half years...Thats going to be $1000 minimum within the next year or so....most likely, more...

So that's around $3K right there...I think Im going to wait a few days, then offer...I guess it is a buyer's market so maybe 9-10K is reasonable?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

If you're happy with what you've seen and comfortable with what you'll need to do, by all means go for it. But make the offer subject to haulout/survey/inspection so if there's any really scary items come to light you'll have an escape path.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

When I started shopping for my Catalina 30, a prime requirement was that it be diesel and not gas. The reasons for this was that I wanted the increased reliability, as well as a reduction in the risk of explosion.

Others will make good arguments on how an Atomic 4 can be maintained to be reliable, and that with careful management, the risk of explosion is small.

For me, I made the right choice and am glad I went with the diesel.

A diesel engine on a Catalina 30 is quite loud underway due to its location under the galley sink. We learned to ignore it, but I am glad my new boat is quieter.

the boat I eventually purchased had a Universal M25 (20 HP) diesel, with a 3 bladed prop, which pushed the boat well through chop and the strong currents we experience in the Pacific Northwest. 

For me, a 14 HP engine would be a deal-killer.

You are getting good advice in this thread. You have to consider the total cost of what it is going to get the boat in the condition you want.

So, choose wisely and carefully. 

As a reference point, we purchased our 1984 Catalina 30 in 2005 for somewhere around $28,000. We sold her last summer, in better condition than when we bought her, with approximately $5000 in upgrades in addition to regular maintenance, for around $26,000

She was a great boat, and kept our family safe and happy during that time.

Good luck in your search!


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

sync
Just a note on your battery comment. 8Ds are rare on smaller boats now. I do not know where you would put 2 8Ds on a Catalina 30. They are very heavy and each one takes up more space than 2 6 volt golf cart batteries in series. And the 2 golf cart batteries will give you more amp hours than an 8D. As well they are longer lasting if cared for and much easier to place in a Catalina 30. Golf cart batteries fit under the chart table on a Catalina 30.


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

Mitiempo,
I have an 8D on my 27, and some of the larger boats I've seen have had 2....I guess I just assumed out of ignorance...I appreciate the info. 

Djodenda,
I've been getting a lot of feedback from others as well as far as 14HP being underpowered. I never gave that much thought until I heard it from 3 people....Im not sure that would bother me, being sailing primarily in the Gulf.....and I stress, primarily SAILING......I really only want the engine for when Im going in and out of the harbor, and when I lose the wind....I guess it would be nice to have something more powerful if I hit bad weather and need to take the sails down.....The engine was loud but reasonable I think....and I was thinking, if I have the boat running, Im probably not going to be hanging out down below.....I too, really hate the idea of an A4....Im just sold on diesel for most of the same reasons, reliability, economy, and not dealing with gas fumes.....

Faster,

I do like what I see....I see the electrical as more of a blank canvas.....As long as I get enough of a good deal to have money left to put into it, I would have more peace of mind doing all that myself.....The delamination on deck is kind of annoying but I can fix it, and most people would avoid something like that if found and I guess its just another bargaining point.....If everything else is good and I don't find anything else, I love the boat...


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Sync:
It sounds like you are thinking this through well. Keep in mind that the engine is the biggest "unchangeable" in a boat at that price point. Make sure the engine is the one you want, both in size and condition, because it's not going to make economic sense to change it out.

I had a 6 or 7 HP Petter diesel in my Catalina 27, which probably made it similarly underpowered to the C30 you are considering. It was fine for sailing in Santa Monica bay, where there weren't any currents, and I wasn't motoring if there was any chop or wind.

This is all fun, huh? It took me almost a year to find my new boat. Be persistent and careful.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Sync,

As you seem to be set on this particular boat, you need to do the following: Get the HIN number (should be embosed on the stern or quarter near the rub rail). Using it, call Catalina and ask them to send you a copy of the warranty repair record (This will list the repairs/mods that Catalina authorized/consulted). Next, using the hull number that you derived from the HIN, go on the C30 owners website and do a similar search. If you are still set on the boat, get a complete survey. For me, the deformation on the deck around the mast is indicative of water intrusion in the wooden keel stub causing it to rot. The weakened substrait will allow the shrouds to drive the mast through the deck causing a deformation on the coach roof around the mast. Think of it this way, the coach roof might be the only thing structurally supporting the base of the mast (It should be the compression post/keel stub/keel). Back in the day, the industry standard was to use wood for structures below the water line. Catalina went one step further and encapsulated the wood in fiberglass and resin. Unfortunately, it makes it difficult to detect water intrusion and rot. I know guys who only found out about it when they couldn’t keep tension on their shrouds. All is not lost as this problem was discovered a long time ago and Catalina has fix (why you want to search Catalina’s database). The “world famous” “catalina smile” is entirely different and is the result of unbalanced blocking at the boatyard causing the boat not to rest evenly on its keel. I have heard boat yard supervisors tell their client that their boat has the “catalina smile” when their boat was actually a Cal. It is just another name for a crack along the keel/hull joint.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Sync,
One of the great things about a Catalina 30 is how much information is out there. I took a quick cruise through Catalina 30/309 International Association - Members Website and found these:

The original sales brochure: 
http://www.catalina30.com/C30Yacht/Brochures/Brochures.htm

It sounds like your boat has the 5411 diesel. Here's the manual:
http://www.catalina30.com/TechLib/Engines/M5411_Maint.pdf

If there is a problem with the compression post here's how to fix it
http://www.catalina30.com/TechLib/MastColumnBilgeKeel/Compression Post.doc

Someone else (I think SailingDog) mentioned the problem with rotted plywood in the bilge (eliminated on newer models). Many older boats have already had this issue addressed. You'll want to check to see if it's been done on your boat. To see some of the methods used to strengthen this area Google "fix catalina smile". Here's an example on a '77 Catalina 30 Restoration - Floor & Keel Bolts | ClewedIn.com. There some other links on this site to restoration projects on his '77.

You can find wiring diagrams here:
Wiring Diagrams

Alternatively you can contact Catalina and ask them to send you the wiring diagrams used in the later model boats (MK III's) that had more modern features that you'd want to incorporate in a complete re-wire.

Also check out:
CatalinaOwners.com - Home a forum for Catalina owners with a C30 subforum
Catalina Direct: parts
the Yahoo Catalina 30 owners group

And finally Catalina does a great job of supporting these older boats. If you go to Yachts and boats for sale - Catalina Yachts you can email questions and order parts.

BTW a survey can be the best money you'll ever spend.

Hope this helps,
Jim


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## mccary (Feb 24, 2002)

Boat prices are very regional. That said, there was '79 Catalina 30 w/ a 23hp Diesel on eBay that did NOT receive a single bid (there was no reserve and the start price was $9K). It was on a lake in Columbia SC.


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

Yeah, I am comfortable with Catalinas because of their reputation and all the wealth of info there is out there, but I am pretty open to any boat I find that meets my needs. I really want something that has been maintained well, is well equipped, and will pass a survey with flying colors.... I would gladly compromise on some characteristics of a boat if it means less time working on it, and more time sailing and enjoying it... That being said, I found an 84 Islander Bahama 30 in my area. From the looks of the ad, it looks pretty meticulously maintained, has had bottom paint in the last 2 years, has all the electronics I want and need, and is ready for me to move in...the motor is a yanmar 15hp with lower hours and is spotless.... The boat is better equipped than the Catalina and seems to be in better shape. They are asking a little less than the Catalina also... Only 13500... I read somewhere this make is more of a capable blue water boat. Is that true? Does anyone know about these boats? I have been having some trouble finding info online. Would this boat ( in general) maybe be a better choice?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Here are a few links that may help. 
Islander Bahama 30 | Jeremy Randall
ISLANDER 30-2 Sailboat details on sailboatdata.com
ISLANDER BAHAMA 30 Sailboat details on sailboatdata.com


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

The Islander is another well regarded boat, and the 30 is another roomy one for its length too. Certainly worth a look.. esp if you can get to the Catalina first so you can get a sense of which boat 'feels' best to you.

The Islander's T shaped cockpit is better suited to a wheel, but the seats are shorter as a result. If sleeping out there in summer is on the cards the T cockpit is less ideal.

The Catalina's massively open companionway hatch lets in more light, but that's one element that might make many consider it less appropriate for open water cruising.

So on the face of it, you're now looking at a boat 7 years newer, without (presumably) the not-insignificant cosmetic issues, similarly powered (but 1500lbs lighter) for less money.....


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## montenido (May 14, 2008)

I sold my 1981 C30 last summer for $12,500 in California and felt lucky to get it. My boat was in very good shape with a huge number of upgrades.

The problem facing sellers right now is that there are so many good used boats on the market. I started selling at $19,500 and feel that the boat was worth every penny of that. However, I came to realize that if I wanted to sell the boat, I would have to go with what the market would bear.

If you like this particular boat offer in the $11,000-12,000 range. If he does not accept it, tell him to hang on to your number. He WILL change his mind eventually.

OOps, I should have read the second page of comments before posting.

Good luck, C30s are great boats.

Bill


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## n0w0rries (May 17, 2009)

I agree with the above poster. $11-$12k would probably be fair. $9k would be a lowball offer.

Don't worry too much about the smile. I got all worked up about it but talking to people who own them and live with them the internet community can get a little worked up over something that isn't that big of a deal. Yeah it's not good, but is it the end of the world? Ultimately you're buying a 34 year old boat, and if you want one that doesn't have those kind of issues you can get one, but it's going to cost you a lot more money. Bang for the buck it's a great boat.


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