# Halyards to cockpit?



## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

How important is it?

Going to be single-handing mostly, on a 27 foot with 150+/- sf main and jibs between 150 and 275 +/- sf. Novice to bigger boats; but quite a few miles under the dink keel 

In process of selecting running rigging and yesterday pulled the old off the boat for measurement. I wouldn't mind the extra cost of line; but the deck hardware to rig halyards to the 'pit is outrageous!. 

Is it *so* important to be able to drop/haul sails from the cockpit; or am I making too much of it? 

TIA


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

It's not important at all if your boat can track a course without you at the helm.


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## blutoyz (Oct 28, 2012)

I am going to lurk on this one because I have the same question and experience level.


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

I single hand our I-28 a lot here on the Maine coast. I added a jib downhaul and have my jib halyard running to the cockpit. I like it for the ease and control of dropping the jib at the end of the day or if I am getting ready to pick up a mooring. The jib is safe on deck with a little tension on one of the sheets and I can quickly secure it with a bungee. Having some netting forward helps. Raising it from its "parking place" is simple, too. My main halyard remains on the mast.

Adding a jamb cleat for the downhaul was all I needed. I have a clutch and a winch set up for the spinnaker already in the cockpit. I used the fairleads for the spinnaker downhaul to run the jib downhaul back.

Down


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## Noclew (Feb 21, 2013)

Have you read any tips and techniques by Andrew Evans, a singlehanded racer in SF Bay area who sails an Olson 30? Many great tips in his free ebook at sfbaysss dot org. He details how to use surgical tubing to steer a steady course as he works the bow rigging (spinnaker for him - not mainsail or jib).

181 pages, but it is free and has a good index. Well worth the time, imo, for anyone who sails, especially a SH sailor. The ebook also includes his suggested internet resources for additional info eg. trimming sails, the physics of sailing, weather, etc.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

If you're single-handed, and if reefing lines are NOT run aft, I think leaving the main halyard on the mast makes sense. An autopilot or effective self steering helps tremendously, of course.. but leaving it all on the mast means a single trip out of the cockpit to hoist, douse, or reef.

I also agree with the premise that running a jib halyard aft, and downhaul if hanked on, makes sense sailing shorthanded. Double lifelines, netting or lacing can help keep a dropped headsail on deck in that case.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I would much rather have a reliable autopilot than have the lines led back.

I single hand a 44 ft cutter much of the time.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Faster said:


> If you're single-handed, and if reefing lines are NOT run aft, I think leaving the main halyard on the mast makes sense. An autopilot or effective self steering helps tremendously, of course.. but leaving it all on the mast means a single trip out of the cockpit to hoist, douse, or reef...


I agree with Faster's advice, and even further that even with reefing lines run aft, unless you have single line reefing, you may as well leave the main at the mast. If you need to go to the mast to set the reef tack, or to ease the vang, you may as well also handle the halyard there.

As to the jib halyard, if you have a roller furler setup, you can leave the jib halyard on the mast also. (If you do not have a roller furling jib, you should get it!).


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

deltaten said:


> Is it *so* important to be able to drop/haul sails from the cockpit; or am I making too much of it?
> 
> TIA


I think too much is made in general of the ability to do so... KISS, leave everything at the mast...


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Having talked in the chat room I feel compelled to make a fuller answer.

It's a matter really of budget and space. You can always just let your sheets go and flog until you can get to them. 
Without knowing your specific deck layout I can't tell if you'll need deck organizers to redirect lines around your cabin top/hatch. 

A jib downhaul only needs to be 1/4 line, a block and jammer. Run it back through stanchion bases, or blocks on the stanchion base. 

On a 27 foot the added friction of running a main halyard aft doesn't put enough load on the line to prevent a fast hoist hand over hand. You can always sway it tighter once you are set on a steady course. 
Rather than a jam cleat I'd suggest a clutch for the stopper- it gives more control. Garhauer makes a triple clutch unit in stainless for about 130 bucks IIRC (it's not listed, you have to call). They ain't pretty, they ain't light, but they are strong and they work. They also sell a 3x deck organizer for about 60. 
Get both of those and 3 turning blocks that will fit you mast step and you've got all you need to run a reef line, main halyard and jib halyard to the cockpit. Turning block cost and size depend on line size, but a 40 mm from Garhauer is about 25 bucks, shackle included. 300 bucks is nothing for the added control and safety. 

Putting in a reef on a small boat without leaving the cockpit is also a simple matter of a block and jammer/clutch. Put a turning block at the base of the mast, run a line through it to the cringle on the main that you'd normally hook at the mast.
Drop the main halyard (which presupposes it's run aft) to a set, marked point, then pull the reef line down tight. It'll hold. 

Lazyjacks (a must) and a couple reef straps and you are done.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

The problem with running halyards to the cockpit is that eventually you'll need to go to the mast sometime when the main is not coming down on its own, then you'll start tugging on the main and the halyard line will get tangled in the cockpit, so you'll have to run back to the cockpit to untangle, then back to the mast to tug on the main....

I agree with the KISS comment.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Try it out. You need to see how well the boat tracks if you step away from the helm. With a skeg hung rudder and a long keel with a high B/D I won't be surprised if your Watkins tracks very straight even if no one is on the helm. I sometimes sail with a Yankee 30 that tracks so straight that the owner often does headsail changes at the mast with no autopilot or even lashing the tiller.

If so then just leave them at the mast and go sailing.

If not then decide if you'd prefer to spend $500 on hardware or on an autopilot.

If you are nervous about it the first time then find some crew to have on the boat who can help if things go south.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

chucklesR said:


> Having talked in the chat room I feel compelled to make a fuller answer.
> ....
> Drop the main halyard (which presupposes it's run aft) to a set, marked point, then pull the reef line down tight. It'll hold.
> 
> Lazyjacks (a must) and a couple reef straps and you are done.


FWIW, on most boats you also need to ease the boomvang.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

sailingfool said:


> FWIW, on most boats you also need to ease the boomvang.


I cheated, knew he had it laying in the hatch from our chat conversation.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

A downhaul on the main is something I think would be helpful. Since it sounds like you have hank-on jibs, a jib downhaul, as suggested above, makes a lot of sense to me, too.

The cost of the running rigging isn't that bad - I'm pretty sure I got me from Minnesota Rigging on eBay. I'm fairly frugal, but to me, the cost (even with a winch or two, and some other related deck hardware) is a small price to pay compared to the comfort of being able to stay in the cockpit if things get bad in a hurry. Look for used equipment on eBay and Craigslist to get you started. In the NJ/NY/PA area, you should be able to find a lot of surplus equipment because of Hurricane Sandy. I'm pretty sure there's a place in Annapolis that sells surplus equipment, and I know Minnie's Yacht Surplus in Costa Mesa, CA has a lot of stuff at decent prices, too. I'd like to find something even closer than Annapolis (I'm about an hour and a half from you), but that's all I've heard of so far.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

caberg said:


> The problem with running halyards to the cockpit is that eventually you'll need to go to the mast sometime when the main is not coming down on its own, then you'll start tugging on the main and the halyard line will get tangled in the cockpit, so you'll have to run back to the cockpit to untangle, then back to the mast to tug on the main....
> 
> I agree with the KISS comment.


Funny never had this problem. You have to have a smooth well taken care of track and maintain it, but thats normal part of inspoecting and taking care of your boat. The only time I ever have to realy go to the mast is at the dock to take the sail cover off, and it pretty safe there

I single hand a lot also and have everything run into the cockpit. Why you may ask, I figure the least amount of times that I have to go out of the cockpit up on the coach roof the safer I am.

Chuck described the set up on my boat almost to a T with the turning blocks connected to the mast collar. To raise the main I just step around the wheel. My main halyard is led back to a ST 2 speed winch under the dodger ( free and clear) and it is quite easy to hoist the full battened main almost 3/4 way up without the winch. When finished I coil and place the looped line in and organizer. Safe and out of the way. Both reefs can be accomplished from the cockpit. I also have EZ Jacks...better than Lazy Jacks in that you can pull them out of the way to the mast when not using them, and I have the additon of being able to deploy them from the cockpit which you cant do with Lazy Jacks.

When dropping the main, first deploy the EZ Jacjs and then simply release the halyard from the self tailing winch and line stopper. It falls and flakes right in the boom. I dont do the sail ties till i dock.

Lazy Jack System - EZ-JAX

I am willing to go out singlehanded in all types of wind conditions knowing that I will be safe and not have to leave the cockpit to raise, lower or reef the main.

Its also easier when you have guests who know zero on the boat.

It costs a little money to set it up that way, but once you do its a snap to be able to control a 35 footer yourself without worryimng about getting knowck off the boat in 20 knot winds and 5 ft chop.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

TQA said:


> I would much rather have a reliable autopilot than have the lines led back.
> 
> I single hand a 44 ft cutter much of the time.


Not sure why this is an either or. An autopilit requires more money also. I say you have both


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> > Originally Posted by caberg
> > The problem with running halyards to the cockpit is that eventually you'll need to go to the mast sometime when the main is not coming down on its own, then you'll start tugging on the main and the halyard line will get tangled in the cockpit, so you'll have to run back to the cockpit to untangle, then back to the mast to tug on the main....
> >
> > I agree with the KISS comment.
> ...


My experience has been quite the opposite... I know such a system can be made to work reasonably well - and someday I hope to sail with Jeff H on his boat, as I know he's put such a setup to very good effect... but pretty much every time I get on a delivery of a larger boat with the main halyard led aft, I know I'm in for multiple trips to and from the mast to deal with the snags caberg alludes to, if I'm singlehanding...

The worst case senario, is when a high-modulus rope like T-900 is used for the main halyard, in conjunction with an electric winch and rope clutches for all the crap that's led aft... Such rope will quickly acquire a set that is virtually impossible to pull back through a clutch from forward without hockling and kinking... On more than one boat, I've found the easiest thing to do when lowering the main singlehanded, was to simply toss the whole mess of halyard tail over the stern, let it trail out and unwind that way...

As I said, I'm sure it can be done - but in my observation/experience, it sure isn't being done well very _frequently_...

In addition, on boats with dodgers overhead canvas, I hate having to hoist the main without being able to easily watch it all the way up, that can be a real invitation to trouble... People putting the halyard on a self-tailing electric winch, and pressing the button without having a clear view of the mast, that can be a recipe for disaster...

Finally, I really don't like the idea of compromising the watertight integrity of a dodger or doghouse, but cutting holes in the leading edge for the passage of lines aft... In heavy weather, it can be shocking how much water can be admitted into what otherwise might stay a relatively dry area...

So, have I mentioned I really don't like lines led aft to the cockpit on most boats? (grin)


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

JonEisberg said:


> My experience has been quite the opposite... I know such a system can be made to work reasonably well - and someday I hope to sail with Jeff H on his boat, as I know he's put such a setup to very good effect... but pretty much every time I get on a delivery of a larger boat with the main halyard led aft, I know I'm in for multiple trips to and from the mast to deal with the snags caberg alludes to, if I'm singlehanding...
> 
> The worst case senario, is when a high-modulus rope like T-900 is used for the main halyard, in conjunction with an electric winch and rope clutches for all the crap that's led aft... Such rope will quickly acquire a set that is virtually impossible to pull back through a clutch from forward without hockling and kinking... On more than one boat, I've found the easiest thing to do when lowering the main singlehanded, was to simply toss the whole mess of halyard tail over the stern, let it trail out and unwind that way...
> 
> ...


Just an observation, the OP has the opportunity to do it correctly on his boat so he doesn't have the issues you mentioned. He isn't talking about getting on a variety of boats where it's messed up. He has the opportunity to make his better by learning from the mistakes of others and those you have mentioned. I am sure Jon has seen many nightmares as he experiences many different boats.

Chances are he isn't doing major ocean passages or has electric winches. Ease of cockpit reefing I believe encourages a person to do that under way as opposed to getting out of the cockpit exposed you may wait as you don't want to deal with the danger or hassle.

If you set your system up correctly and it's well thought out taking into account some of the pitfalls Jon has mentioned it can be an advantage. If you do it piecemeal or cobbled then Jon is right it won't be worth it and may cause more problems than its worth.

When singlehanding I don't look for opportunities to leave the cockpit. I would think most would agree you are safer and less likely to be thrown off the boat or struck if you are in the cockpit Vs. the deck. As the wind increases and the seas I would think that the gap of risk increases even further.

How easy is it for me to reef, move in front of the wheel, lower the main halyard below its reef point, pull in the reefing line. Tighten the clutch, tighten the halyard back up. A 1 minute maneuver. No going topside .

My system is no more complex than a mast one with the exception of a turning block, a deck organizer, and a rope clutch. It ain't rocket science here, thats why they make theese blocks.its not as complicated as its made out to be.

A sticky main sail track is a maintaince issue whether the line is led back through a couple of simple blocks or at the mast. Reefing lines same thing. This all should be checked before you leave the dock.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Lot's of good points here.

Deltaten, here's one more. Sail the boat a couple times, then figure what you need and don't need (with one exception - Lazyjacks). I'd not sail single handed without them. 
No better way to make a cockpit cluttered than to dump a sail into it.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

delta-
If you have the luxury of time and space, you can always put the boat in irons, stall it out and go forward to deal with the sails. Ditto for raising the main, then going ot the helm, and dealing with the joib when there's time and space, assuming you can lock the wheel so the boat will stay on course while you're forward.
If things are going to be crowded, being able to handle things from the helm may be more important. Best thing to do is have a couple of chinese fire drills in some empty water, see where and how far the boat moves, see if your comfort zone calls for staying on the helm.

And of course, downeast has been spoiled rotten by his I28. An I28 is so well balanced that the guy at the helm is just a figurehead. (G)


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

I am spoiled. I want everything. All controls in the cockpit. Give me an electric winch , I will take it. Give me a remote control auto helm, I take it. Give me a lazy boy arm armchair in place of helm seat, I take it. 

I am a simple man, I like toys.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

got lousy knees. all past boats have every possible line lead aft. Even the jib halyards when possible even though they are on roller furling( that way can adjust tension). Agree with Jon and every couple of weeks re reeve the lines. Takes the twist out of them and makes me look at them for troubles. Main sheet is always the one with the most twist. Humbly disagree with Jon about electric winches. Find don't need the motor in the beginning and like to feel the tension in the line at the end so hand crank that part but it's a joy in the middle. Mostly "single" as one of us is either down below, up in the bow daydreaming or sleeping.

Jon- Please remember -it's us broken up, fat old men that keep you virile,young studs in business. Tending to the lines before the transport shouldn't be that big a deal when our oldtimer's disease kicks in and we forget- LOL


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

rockDAWG said:


> I am spoiled. I want everything. All controls in the cockpit. Give me an electric winch , I will take it. Give me a remote control auto helm, I take it. Give me a lazy boy arm armchair in place of helm seat, I take it.
> 
> I am a simple man, I like toys.


Well then, "simple" would seem far from the most appropriate word to apply, in that case...

If you crave "toys" on a boat, especially those that involve the continuous and uninterrupted flow of electrons, you are definitely choosing complexity over simplicity... _ENTIRELY_ different ballgame, the polar opposite of favoring The Simple Life... I get paid to sail complex boats, and sometimes it's not nearly enough to deal with the hassle... When I'm sailing for pleasure, I'll take a comparatively "simple" boat, every time...

Those who want to keep things simple, would favor a tiller over a wheel, vane steering over an autopilot, overlarge tankage and water catchment over watermakers, and halyards at the mast instead of led aft to the cockpit...

Anyone with that much reluctance to leave the cockpit, should perhaps consider taking up a more sedentary pastime than sailing, anyway... (grin, bigtime)


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## KnottyGurl (Feb 8, 2011)

Deck organisers, clutches, blocks and run reefs, lazyjacks, main, jib, gen/spinniker to cabintop, furler to starboard aft, gennaker tacklead along side with furler and jib sheet chokers in jam cleats on each side.
Tiller pilot and bungee backup.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

outbound said:


> Humbly disagree with Jon about electric winches. Find don't need the motor in the beginning and like to feel the tension in the line at the end so hand crank that part but it's a joy in the middle. Mostly "single" as one of us is either down below, up in the bow daydreaming or sleeping.


Nah, trust me - if I sailed an Outbound 46, I'd have electric winches, as well... (grin)


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

JonEisberg said:


> My experience has been quite the opposite... I know such a system can be made to work reasonably well - and someday I hope to sail with Jeff H on his boat, as I know he's put such a setup to very good effect... but pretty much every time I get on a delivery of a larger boat with the main halyard led aft, I know I'm in for multiple trips to and from the mast to deal with the snags caberg alludes to, if I'm singlehanding...
> 
> The worst case senario, is when a high-modulus rope like T-900 is used for the main halyard, in conjunction with an electric winch and rope clutches for all the crap that's led aft... Such rope will quickly acquire a set that is virtually impossible to pull back through a clutch from forward without hockling and kinking... On more than one boat, I've found the easiest thing to do when lowering the main singlehanded, was to simply toss the whole mess of halyard tail over the stern, let it trail out and unwind that way...
> 
> ...


Captain Jon, you are a purist. In other post, others mentioned you as like person they want to meet. I am afraid to meet you becasue you will kick my ass flying across Pacific ocean.

OK, I be advised that I will stick my head out the dodge when I use the electric main halyard. Better yet, I will manually crank the remaining few inches by hand. Been there done that, have a story to tell too.

Good call though


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Jon- love dinghy sailing and even a catboat with just one string to pull but at a certain size and when you're aiming only at the horizon
tiller sweep takes up to much of the cockpit when you tack
windvane doesn't work if your boat is fast enough going downwind
you're are truly off the grid and it hasn't rained.
you're by yourself and see the line squall and the main needs to come down NOW as the metereoman keeps dropping.
Was told Ed Joy's old boss said he wanted a tiller steered ( on gugdeons and pinions) 30' full keeled boat for his retirement. I'm not that old yet ( grin ).


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

JonEisberg said:


> Well then, "simple" would seem far from the most appropriate word to apply, in that case...
> 
> If you crave "toys" on a boat, especially those that involve the continuous and uninterrupted flow of electrons, you are definitely choosing complexity over simplicity... _ENTIRELY_ different ballgame, the polar opposite of favoring The Simple Life... I get paid to sail complex boats, and sometimes it's not nearly enough to deal with the hassle... When I'm sailing for pleasure, I'll take a comparatively "simple" boat, every time...
> 
> ...


Thats me a sedentary poor spelling sedimentry rock.....in the cockpit safe and sound. oh and did I mention dry behind my dodger and chartplotter and radar...never looking up.

Better sailing hrough electronics is my new motto


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Chef- Jon's right. There is a purity when you are closer to the elementary forces we harness when sailing. A tiller in your hand. Doing a sight reduction correctly. But I'm on your side as well. I've been cold wet and scared enough to keep me for the rest of my life. I got to go back to work now. Need to save up for Jon.( grin) From his posts even though I try to tease him it's clear he is very skilled and someone who could teach me more than a thing or two.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

outbound said:


> ....Need to save up for Jon.( grin) From his posts even though I try to tease him it's clear he is very skilled and someone who could teach me more than a thing or two.


You and the rest of us here too, I expect!


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

rockDAWG said:


> Captain Jon, you are a purist. In other post, others mentioned you as like person they want to meet. I am afraid to meet you becasue you will kick my ass flying across Pacific ocean.
> 
> OK, I be advised that I will stick my head out the dodge when I use the electric main halyard. Better yet, I will manually crank the remaining few inches by hand. Been there done that, have a story to tell too.
> 
> Good call though


Nah, I'm hardly a purist, I like most gadgets as much as the next guy... When I'm cruising my own boat, I suppose I do put a higher premium on sailing, as opposed to motoring, than most cruisers appear to do, but that's about it... You'd probably be surprised at the amount of gadgetry my little tub sports, I would NEVER choose a manual windlass over an electric, for example, and I would kill to have a wireless remote autopilot control on the boat I'm running now - whoever installed the tillerpilot control on this boat should simply be shot, what a moron, couldn't possibly have been placed in a dumber, more inconvenient location...

However, I do like stuff that _WORKS_, and I hate to say that much of what is being foisted upon the sailing 'consumer' these days, either seems largely unnecessary, or simply doesn't really work that well at all...

One of my dislikes was certainly confirmed today at the Charleston City Marina Megadock... I've sat here for 2 days due to weather, today's passage of a warm front was truly impressive, blew 35-40 out of the S & SW for much of the day...

One of the worst trends I'm seeing in today's production boats - particularly many of the popular Euro variety - is the placement of these freakin' picture windows in the topsides, a foot or more below deck level...

One of those sleek and sexy Euro bitches found themselves pinned against the outboard/weather side of the face dock, their fenders being squeezed virtually flat... It was very sobering to behold, the vulnerability of those windows, placed at the boat's maximum beam, when the hull came into contact with the face of the dock...

So, in that regard, call me a "purist"... The purposeful cutting of large, long holes in the side of a boat, and then filling that hole with a piece of Lexan or whatever, is just plain nuts on a boat intended to actually go places beyond the sight of land... (grin)


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

I was a luddite for many years, sailing to places like Block Island and Shelter Island in an 18' catboat. My electronics consisted of a handheld VHF for a number of years. We did dead reckoning, using compass, paper chart and Eldridges and never failed to fetch the right passage coming back from BI in pea soup fog on a number of occasions. Never thought about lifelines or harnesses when I went forward to reef as the 14' gaff and 19' boom were swinging. That was part of the challenge.

Then we (the 2 of us) got older and got a 35' sloop with progressively more "stuff". Initially we had to go forward to reef the main, but we didn't worry about it until one time when we got caught in 45 kts for 45 minutes. I had a harness, but hadn't rigged the jacklines, so we rode it out with a fisherman's reef. The brand new sail had shed the lower full length batten and the telltales were shredded when we got back to safe harbor. 

That was just an aberration, we thought, until we had to reef in a sustained 29 kt breeze coming back from Nantucket. The water in Nantucket Sound was quite choppy and the admiral was nervous, so I started the auxiliary as we luffed and I went forward to hook the tack and deal with the halyard and jiffy reefing. I was OK, but the admiral was uncomfortable. You know what that means.

We then had a rigger install single line reefing, with all lines, including main halyard, led inside the dodger. The sail was modified by adding Karver blocks at the reef tacks and clews and we installed a winch next to the companionway for needed mechanical advantage.

When all was said and done--and the bill paid--we are glad we did it. It is really comforting to stay in the cockpit when that squall blows up--except for those times when one of the lines loops around a mast winch (Murphy!). The cutout in the hem of the dodger has not been a problem with spray and the occasional green water, but that might be a consequence of the step-up on our coachroof.

The bottom line for us is safety and the single line reefing provides some of that. The other safety device is the below-deck autopilot that replaced an unreliable wheel pilot. If one of us has a fall or other injury, it's a reliable third crew member. When I occasionally single-hand, it is indispensable for steering the boat when preparing lines and fenders when coming up to a dock, particularly when confined to a channel.

So, we have more "toys", as some would call them, but they have become indispensable in our senior years. We had to wait a long time to afford them, but there is no question that they are important pieces of gear. We didn't think we needed any of this stuff when we were younger and accidents happened to other people. 

The purists have their opinion, but if we had it to do over, we would have made these changes sooner.


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## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

Good posts and great responses all!  Keep 'em coming, if you please?

_Chrysalis_ is a tiller-steered tub of elder parentage and lesser equipped. As much as I'd like to consider myself a "purist", I'm more than ready at this stage of life to start taking it a bit easier.  Mr. Murphy..or his aquatic equivalent , is bound to rear his head and cause all manner of difficulties at inopportune times. Until I have a few miles under the keel, I had best keep it simple! Until I joined here and read vast amounts of posts and did massive research, I had no idea what a "Genoa track and cars"were; let alone thought I had need of them!

I plan to purchase lines sufficient to _eventually_ run them to the 'pit. In the meantime, I see no reason not to have the excess (perhaps 10 or 12 feet?) hung/stowed nicely while under way and out of use. I can sure bend a loop over the halyard winch as well as a have the bitter end to hand. As time, experience and finances allow, I'll add such hardware as needed in some sort of logical order.

Oh.. and not to forget! I *do* plan to run a jackline/s and wear a harness/PFD when out. :biggrin:

Thanx again,
Paul


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

> One of those sleek and sexy Euro bitches found themselves pinned against the outboard/weather side of the face dock, their fenders being squeezed virtually flat


Does that count as boat porn?


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## CapnRon47 (Jul 29, 2007)

I converted my 35' sailboat "Heron" last year. I tried to keep it simple. I left all the gear at the mast, including the clutches; but led the lines to a second set of clutches on the cabin-top. If the ones at the mast are open the ones in the cockpit hold the lines. My description with pictures can be found here from a previous thread;
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/genera...e-ideas-4.html

I did it for safety as I am getting older, for making single handed sailing easier and sailing with newbie friends and kids more relaxing. I also have an autopilot. I installed that first a few years ago and it worked fine when going forward (also with jack lines and harness). But this upgrade gets me out more often.

cheers,
Ron


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

If you rig it right you can put a joystick with remote control to all electric two way winches. 
A good internet connection and you'll never have to leave home.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Think the take aways are:
1.Fallard is right- bringing everything aft increases safety and comfort
2.Jon is right- if done must be done correctly and systems maintained
3.Autopilots are great- but must be sized correctly,if going off shore have appropriate spares and serviced routinely

Before builting my new boat looked at a huge number of vessels with hull portlights. Had occassion to blow out lights on the LEEWARD side in a knockdown once. Agree some may feel they are stylish. I think they have no place on a boat that sails in any kind of weather unless over built in the extreme.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

outbound said:


> ....
> Before building my new boat looked at a huge number of vessels with hull portlights. Had occassion to blow out lights on the LEEWARD side in a knockdown once. Agree some may feel they are stylish. I think they have no place on a boat that sails in any kind of weather unless over built in the extreme.


While I like the idea of a 'view' of the anchorage from the salon, that's always been a bit of concern, esp as these hull ports get bigger and lower in the hull. One would assume/hope they were designed and installed with such forces in mind, but.....?

What boat was it that you actually blew out a hull portlight? First time I've heard of that actually happening.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

chef2sail said:


> Not sure why this is an either or. An autopilit requires more money also. I say you have both


The content of the OP suggests that finances are a concern. I started sailing singlehanding a Catalina[Jaguar] 22 and my first purchase was a tillerpilot.

That allowed me to go forward to change/reef sails with the boat under control.

Sure it would be nice on long wet cold passages to have both but if I had to choose between having all lines back to the cockpit OR an autopilot the autopilot wins every time.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

JonEisberg said:


> Nah, I'm hardly a purist, I like most gadgets as much as the next guy... When I'm cruising my own boat, I suppose I do put a higher premium on sailing, as opposed to motoring, than most cruisers appear to do, but that's about it... You'd probably be surprised at the amount of gadgetry my little tub sports, I would NEVER choose a manual windlass over an electric, for example, and I would kill to have a wireless remote autopilot control on the boat I'm running now - whoever installed the tillerpilot control on this boat should simply be shot, what a moron, couldn't possibly have been placed in a dumber, more inconvenient location...
> 
> However, I do like stuff that _WORKS_, and I hate to say that much of what is being foisted upon the sailing 'consumer' these days, either seems largely unnecessary, or simply doesn't really work that well at all...
> 
> ...


Jon (grin),

I tease you and sometimes am foolish enough to argue with you but I have learned a lot from you on SN. You are a valuable resource and hopefull someday I can put and handshakeand a smile to your postings.

Keep on keeping on. Purists are a dying breed. ( grin)


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

PaulinVictoria said:


> Does that count as boat porn?


Uhhh, probably not - unless the sound of fiberglass laminate cracking turns you on... (grin)


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## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

D10 - 
I think there is lots of good stuff in this thread, but my favorite post by far is Chuck's advice to do nothing and sail your boat for a while first. The boat is brand new to you and your feel for what you want and need will be so much different after a season on the bay sailing in a variety of conditions. Even if that turns out to be a "lines led aft" solution, you will still benefit from the experience at the mast because no system will free you entirely from the need to go forward. Can't wait to start seeing your "I just got in today" posts!
-BS


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