# Thoughts on Elan



## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

I have been looking at buying a new Beneteau for some time now but my desire for a higher quality boat has lead me to look at Elan, specifically the Impression 384. Does anybody have any experience with recent (last 5 years) Elan models? They look like well built boats and I will be going to take a look at what the dealer has in a week, but I wanted to hear what others had to say. Does anyone specifically know much about how they are constructed and what makes either a Beneteau or Elan (again from within the last 5 years) better than the other as far as build quality goes? The boat will be used mainly for Mediterranean crusing. 

Thanks for your help.


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## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

Here's what the Elan website claims:

Build Quality
Elan build in a semi-custom way. The hulls and decks are constructed with vacuum infusion lamination giving a superior fibre to resin ratio that cannot be achieved with hand lamination. The hull to deck and hull to grid joints are bonded and taped with the hull to deck joint also bolted through. Vinylester resin is used in the outer layers below the waterline for long term osmosis protection.

Any comments?


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## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

Do you have any actual experience on an Elan, even if it was at a boat show, or know of anyone who owns one?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

One of our clients has a mate with an Elan. I don't know the exact model but the word is that he's had nothing but trouble with it since he bought it new about a year back. If i can find out any details on the problems he's having I'll let you know.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Here's a little review from Cruising World.
I started sailing on the old Elan333 back in 90's, it was a sturdy boat, allowing us to do mistakes and learn. However, i have no idea how well are they made nowdays. I saw the Impression384 last year on the boat show, but i didn't check it out because the design of Impression line is just not appealing to me. But i did check out the Elan340 and instantly fell in love with the interior design!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Hmm... doesn't bode well if no one has anything positive to say about them... 

While vacuum infusion can make a laminate stronger and lighter, it has to be done correctly to do so. Is the hull-to-deck joint also chemically fastened?? Most manufacturers are now using high-tech adhesives to connect the hull and deck, in addition the the bolts or screws. 

Much of what you'll see on any boat manufacturers website is marketing speak, and really doesn't do a good job of representing the actual build quality of the boat. 

I would see if there is an Elan owners association on the web, and post a message there, or merely lurk and see if the owners are happy with the boats or not.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Buy a Beneteau


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## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

Giulietta, can you please explain your support for Beneteau over Elan ? Also, tdw I would really appreciate it if you could find out what problems your friend was having with his boat.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

"Giulietta" probably has the best advice on Elans and Beneteaus, if you can get a straight answer(just kidding G). He is in Portugal and there are lots of them in Europe, especially Beneteau. I don't know anyone here with one. I think from what I have heard, Beneteau is a better build and has the history. I was looking at Beneteaus too. I kept thinking "why are there so many under six years old for sale?" That scares me. Elan is even more like that. Lots of them under 4 years old for sale. Were they charter boats? If so, stay away. With the Benes I looked at here, it turned out that the in-mast furling wears out the sails in about six years or less and other things start to fall apart too. So when you have a lower priced boat that appeals to the masses, non-sailors or first timers will buy it. Only to realize a few years later that they can't or don't want to keep up with the costs. That being said, there will be some out there that are well cared for by responsible people, and true sailors that are upgrading to a bigger boat.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I have been very impressed with the Elans that I have seen. The glass work and general details looked well done and quite well thought through. I have not sailed on the Elan but they generally appear to be a step up from the Beneteau Oceanis and 'number' series. The boat that I looked at was a couple year old 40 footer and not part of their Impression series. 

I am a big fan of Rob Humphreys who is the designer for Elan. I like his work a lot better than the work of Berret and Finot, who does much of the design work for Beneteau's 'number' series models. 

Elan points out that they bolt their deck which is in sharp contrast with the larger production manufacturers, who simply glue their hulls to their decks. The new glues generate pretty impressive bonds but are being used on very small contact areas. This results in a joint that overtime will be prone to fatique failure of the frp it is glued to. And while the glue holds pretty tenaciously, leaking can still be a problem which is extremely difficult to fix. 

Bolting requires a wider flange area and so has a greater faying surface for the sealant/adhessive and so is potentially a more durable connection. 

Vacuum bagging and infusion are state of the art for producing a sturdy, durable, and moderate weight construction. Vinylester is a great resin for fiberglass. I only wish it was used more universally. 

Jeff


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## Bluesmoods (Jul 8, 2001)

*Elan*

Beneteau is now producing one boat every 8 hours in the US manufacturing plant .. or close to that anyway. The interiors are Pre-Fab, built to a liner adhered to the hull. Yes they are popular. If I spent what they do in mantaing market share I might be let's say Coke or Pepsi. So much of this "Good Boat VS Better Boat" is based on marketing, media presence and market leverage. It is ashame as there are quite a few smaller companies and at least a coulpe larger ones too that make fantastic hulls that just do not have the US marketing/advertising budget to compete effectively.

The Elan is a "finer" boat than Beneteau. Beneteu again... Popular Boat, nicely designed, well built for what it is. very production... You will be happy with either one. I wouldn't want to see you purchase a Beneteau because it is a Beneteau. What is your "gut" feeling...? Which one do you see your self experiencing a great life on the water with before you start thinking about it too much? ?


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## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

T37Chef, why do you say keep searching? I notice that you are a tartan owner, which is above my price range of around $175,000 so please keep this in mind when you make your comments everyone.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

sailingguy123 said:


> T37Chef, why do you say keep searching? I notice that you are a tartan owner, which is above my price range of around $175,000 so please keep this in mind when you make your comments everyone.


Sailinguy...just messing with ya, maybe should have added more than the ?

Why "NEW"? You could get a sweet used boat for alot less than $175,000!!!


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

And be leery of the reviews in the big glossy sailing mags. They won't write anything negative for fear of losing advertising dollars. I bet in that same issue where Cruising World had the review, Elan had a big ad. 

I think for any of the Euro imports, especially the newer ones trying to establish a market, factory support is going to be an issue, so the reputation of the dealer becomes important. I haven't ventured onto any Elans at the boat shows because the boats don't interest me, but as others have pointed out, there's lots of competition for your boating dollars. (And yes, I recommend buying used as well!)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

If you're going to spend 175K I would suggest you find a hull and deck that you like for about 50K and spend the other 125k on a complete refit. You'll end up with a better boat, that includes exactly what you want.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

*Major Correction*

Wombat Whoops. I've just checked and while I still don't have a list of the faults the boat concerned was NOT AN ELAN it was a Hanse. Mea Culpa Mea Culpa Mea Culpa.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

tdw said:


> Wombat Whoops. I've just checked and while I still don't have a list of the faults the boat concerned was NOT AN ELAN it was a Hanse. Mea Culpa Mea Culpa Mea Culpa.


same crap....ooops....


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## tomaz_423 (Feb 5, 2006)

I do not have much experience with the NEW Elan Impression line (except few visits at the boat shows), But I do have experience with older charter boats from Elan, Beneteau, Jeanneau and Bavaria (and few others in this price range).
Forget about Bavaria if you like yourself even if it is much cheaper (undersized everything, and poor quality). 
The other three all make some more sense. From my experience older Elan is better build, but hey, I am from Slovenia where they build them so what else could I think. 
A 5 year charter boat shows the quality of build quite well. - My oldest was an Elan 45 almost 15 years in charter - and it was one of the best boats I ever chartered. 
That was the older "performance oriented" line. I hope they kept the quality. 
While the Impression may not win the race against their performance line, you have more space inside and easier handling. Also more form stability. Their performance line is designed for fast sailing while Impression for easy life on board (they moved the traveller on cabin top for example, made a hull fatter, fridge larger, berths wider ...). The boat have class A (unlimited ocean) certificate, but is more optimised for coastal cruising.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> same crap....ooops....


Me or the boat ?


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## tomaz_423 (Feb 5, 2006)

Oh, I forgot to add some things:
Since you mention "Impression" line you most likely compare it with "Oceanis" line of Beneteau and not their "First" line. Their "Cyclades" line is lower cost and almost comparable to Bavaria.
I did charter Oceanis 393 and I own Oceanis 423, so I know the feel inside and in the cockpit. Elan Impression 384 compares to the Oceanis 423 and not 39 space wise. The full body and wide stern (and perhaps smaller lazarette) gives you the feel of a much larger boat.
Another difference is motoring in reverse: Beneteau have classic shaft drive and quite a strong prop. walk, while elan uses saildrive with prop. very close to the keel and almost no prop. walk. If prop walk is good or bad think is another discussion (I hated it until I learned to take advantage of it).
And why I say good things about Elan and own Beneteau: Very simple. At that time I could not afford Elan, because I had to make make my boat earn some money to pay for herself and I could only make that with Beneteau.
One more thought: How may Beneteau you see out there and ow many Elan? Do you want to be bland in the mass or do you want to be "special".


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## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

thank you all for your comments...I will be going this week to look at the elan boats at the dealer and hopefully will be able to get a better idea of how they compare to beneteau and whether they are good boats.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Look at the Dehler....the Dehler...don't forget...Dehler

Did I metion Dehler??? ahh don't forget to look at the dehler....

Yes....Dehler..very good....BEST EUROPEAN *AFFORDABLE* BOAT

(Nautor, HR, Swedish and Najad excluded)


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## XTR (Feb 28, 2007)

The charter fleets use Bene's, and most come out of charter after 5 to 7 years. (I think Moorings keeps them for 5 and then bumps them to Footloose for 2 more, then they are on the market) Figure a lot of the ones out there are the ones that people did the purchace/charter deal on. After 5 years they have a boat that is no longer in charter and they have to eat the maintenance and slip costs or sell it.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Giu-

You said affordable... That kind of leaves out Nautor, HR, Swedish and Najad... doesn't it..


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Giu-
> 
> You said affordable... That kind of leaves out Nautor, HR, Swedish and Najad... doesn't it..


Can you guarantee that Gates, Trump, Ibramovich, don't read this???


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Gates and Trump don't sail as far as I know... and I might give up sailing if they start...


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

If gates has a boat, it is NOT moored in fron of his $160Mil home on lk Washington! Nor is Paul allens boat moored on LkWa either. Then again, PA's (mega)yacht would probably NOT fit thru the locks out of puget sound either!

I have not personally heard of mr gates owning a yacht, boat or otherwise, but then again..............One can sail a small dingy without problems in their olymipic sized pool!! no we are not talking the lake they live on either!

Marty


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## VMacDonald (Sep 25, 2006)

I sailed on a number of trips on an Elan 36 a few years ago (1997 to 2000 or thereabouts) including a 7 day cruise across the English Channel from Southampton and along the Brittany coast to Brest.

That Elan was clearly a production boat but probably better finished/thought out than a Beneteau. The 36 was a relatively 'sporty' boat, with a deep keel and high aspect ration rig etc. and certainly better to sail than a Bavaria - perhaps a bit less suitable to sitting in the marina though. She pointed well and had a good turn of speed, particularly in light airs. I think Elans (or many of them) are designed by Ron Holland who has a very good reputation for fast boats including IIRC a number of Swans. 

I've heard Elans compared to maybe Jenneau or a Beneteau First series boats, although as Elean now seem to do two ranges perhaps one is more cruiser and the other cruiser/racer.

Elans also seem to get generally good reviews in the UK yachting press (but most boats do, so I'm a little suspiscious of the conflict between reviewers and advertising revenue).


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## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

Giuletta, does Dehler make boats with furling mainsails?


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

sailingguy123 said:


> Giuletta, does Dehler make boats with furling mainsails?


Sailingguy...

I would assume they can supply one with a furling main....if you specify that...*its sacrilege, and murder*, but possible I assume...would I do it??? Noooooooooo.
what's wrong with a Lazy Jack???? Just drop the sail you're done, and sails so much nicer...


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## sailingguy123 (Feb 7, 2007)

Today I went on a friend's boat and realized that traditional mainsail is not so bad...so I think I will get the Grand Soleil 37. I have until Tuesday to make a decision. Thanks for all your help Giulietta


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## h20ski (Jun 7, 2003)

you're all wrong. The Elan is a great boat. We have sailed on several and no problems. A friend owns one. Great boat for the money- fantastic quality. Far superior to the stuff Beneteau & Jenneau now put out. The Elan is designed by the same guy that designs the multi-million dollar Oysters. (that alone should tell you something). Also, just compare tankage on the Elans to the Beneteaus; what good are those tiny tanks going to do you on the Benetaus?/ Elan gives you real tankage for real sailors. Don't listen to all the self proclaimed "experts"- go find a boat and owner and see for yourself. Elans are top notch!!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

hmmm. H20Ski seems to be pimping Elan boats for some reason... Not quite sure why, but he is....


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## h20ski (Jun 7, 2003)

first hand knowledge- unlike some other people.


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## tomaz_423 (Feb 5, 2006)

In few hours i will get Elan Impression 434 for a week. I will be skipper for some friends and in 7 days I can tell my first impressions (or should i say *I*mpressions). 
Then I can compare with my Beneteau Oceanis 423.
So far I mainly sailed the old Elan performance line - all of them sailed very well (I sailed on 33, 333, 36, 37, 43)
Of course there are better boats on the market - X for example make nice fast boats - but that is another price range.


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## h20ski (Jun 7, 2003)

*Elan report?*

Tomaz,
What is your report after your experience on the Elan 434??


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## h20ski (Jun 7, 2003)

*Tomaz- how was the Elan?*

Tomaz, you have probably returned by now- please tell us your experience on the Elan 434.


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## tomaz_423 (Feb 5, 2006)

OK. I am back from sailing now. I was a skipper on Elan Impression 434 (week May 12 to 19) and than on a Beneteau Oceanis 423 (week May 26 to June 2). I sailed both boats in same sailing area and also with similar sailing conditions, so can really compare them.
1) Elan: We had a four cabin version, but still: It is a big boat inside. Much bigger than an Oceanis 423. The floor is raised a bit in the saloon, so the bilge is deep enough to accommodate most tanks and have large storage areas below floorboards.
The construction and the structure of the inner hull looks much bigger than on an Oceanis, but I did not measure the thickness of those structures. 
I also like the lighter color of the woods. 
Sailing: Elan points better and is a faster boat in climbing against the wind, but was a very slow boat going downwind. Both boats have relatively flat bottom, so in big waves both slam hard when they climb a wave and jump on another wave from above. The movement seamed a bit softer on an Oceanis. Elan was faster on most point of sail (except downwind) and also faster under motor. But: Elan I had was brand new - so smooth, and the Bene was 2 years old and had some creatures living on the outside. Sails were classic in both boats and I had no spi.
Now the finish: I notices a few flops on the Elan. We had a brand new boat registered in May, delivered to location in Croatia and we were the first clients:
1) Handle on the cabin top was not tight on one side and was moving a little - jut needed the screws to be tightened.
2) There was some water entering the cabin - the support rod for standing rigging going through cabin top had a seal dislocated on one side (also easy fix).
3) Inner panels covering the celling (decorative) are not screwed or glued, but attached with some sort of Velcro tape and some did not hold well after a heavy beating for 5 hours in 30 knots of wind and short waves. after a firm press they were OK and did hold good.
I am not sure it this is normal for a new boat, but those little defects are hard to notice before the boat is in use.
Both boats took heavy winds (for Adriatic) of 30 to 35 knots (gusts to 40) very well and were very dry boats. Elan was faster, (but Beneteau had optional shallow draft) we could easy sail at 7 knots average (SOG on GPS) for hours. Also the engine noise was lower on the Elan - I had to look at the instruments to determine if the motor was running or not.
I would compare the 434 more with Oceanis 473 than 423 in many ways.
So, this Elan is a nice, fast boat, easy to handle, dry and very comfortable on flat water. I liked it.


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## h20ski (Jun 7, 2003)

Thank you for confirming what we have heard from many people- the Elan is a great boat and you have confirmed that with first hand knowledge.


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## Stujac (Nov 28, 2020)

sailingguy123 said:


> Here's what the Elan website claims:
> 
> Build Quality
> Elan build in a semi-custom way. The hulls and decks are constructed with vacuum infusion lamination giving a superior fibre to resin ratio that cannot be achieved with hand lamination. The hull to deck and hull to grid joints are bonded and taped with the hull to deck joint also bolted through. Vinylester resin is used in the outer layers below the waterline for long term osmosis protection.
> ...


I read this as well. This sounds like the same construction technique as Hanse,

I have been told that Vacum is better. Thanks for the info,


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