# Privacy considerations for ignorant powerboaters



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

We had a beautiful sail up to Philadelphia's Penns Landing on Friday evening. We had dinner and stayed the night. We motored back Saturday due to lack of wind.

All of a sudden my AIS alarm started going off, and I looked back to see this jerk bearing down on me from behind. He was doing 26 knots. I tried hailing him on the radio to warn him of impending collision, both with an open hail (by name) and a DSC (by MMSI). No response. He passed me to starboard about 60 ft away. My worst fear (that he was down below and boat on autopilot) was not realized - he was at the helm with guests. Apparently he was just totally oblivious to the damage that his 4' wake might cause.

I was unable to change course by much before the wake hit. As he approached I was afraid to turn at all because I did not know what side he was going to pass me on. After he passed I had only a couple of seconds to try to get my bow pointed toward the wake. We were tossed around quite a bit since the wake was mostly broadside.

Nothing got permanently damaged on my boat. Things weren't secured like normal because there was no wind and I knew that I would be motoring in totally benign conditions. Fortunately my laptop was stowed on the floor in a bag - I had removed it from the dinette table before departing. But other things did get tossed around quite a bit.

Since I now had his MMSI number in my radio log, I decided to do a little searching online. I can't find the guys name, but his boat name popped up immediately. (The Tardis, MMSI #338186002) I can also see where he spent the night, and also where he apparently keeps his boat during the week. With satellite imagery I can pinpoint it right down to the very slip that he rents. So if there was damage and I wanted to take action, I would have no problem finding the guy.

I wonder if these guys realize that their AIS transponders basically guarantee that they could be held accountable for their stupid actions.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I've had a few similar incidents with idiot powerboats. Ironically, the most recent one was with a Canadian Coast Guard cutter when we were in a narrow marked channel, setting up to enter a marina. We were under sail and this crazy cutter ploughs full-bore past us, throwing a huge wake and leaving us unable to turn into it. Wasn't hard to identify these turkeys.

Interesting use of AIS though TakeFive. It's great you could track them down, although it reinforces my hesitation to use an AIS transponder. Great use in this case, but it's not hard for my suspicious mind to come up with any number of nefarious uses of AIS transmissions (mostly via governments and corporations).


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

"Securité-Securité, Securité-Securité, Hello all stations with special attention of the US Coast Guard, be advised that the vessel "The Tardis" is recklessly and at high speed and close aboard with severe wake is navigating in the XXX channel on the Delaware River at XXXX° N, XXXX°W in X direction. Im am currently checking for injuries and damage due to the large close aboard wake from this boat "THE TARDIS". USCG Please stand by for further" ........ . Such will 'document' your incident, if needed for further action. 
You can also do this by dialing #CG

Id also consider to shot-gun/broadcast a full written detailed report of such an incident to several of the major marine insurance carriers.

Mr. Sheff's "THE TARDIS" is on register at: Office of Science and Technology


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

Another thing to consider, you can search for an MMSI with the FCC Ship License Search to find a persons name, and other details. Looking up that guy's MMSI, it doesn't show up on the FCC database, so it's likely issued from BoatUS. Another method of contacting for damage claims, directly with the insurnace company.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Rhapsody-NS27 said:


> Another thing to consider, you can search for an MMSI with the FCC Ship License Search to find a persons name, and other details...


Yes, I had tried that, but it became clear that it was an unlicensed radio with BoatUS-supplied MMSI.

I've also searched the USCG documentation registry many times, but didn't think of it this time because I assumed the boat wasn't big enough to document. (Objects look smaller when traveling close to the speed of light.  )

I think this thread is diverting to a useful purpose, which is to document the various ways one can look up a boat captain's identity. It my come in handy for when someone really does need to investigate a marine incident.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

After a few years now, navigating the ICW down South, I can count on one hand the times an irresponsible idiot has done something like this. The overwhelming majority of power boaters seem to be very good at making contact and doing a slow pass. It really is a pain for them and I'm always grateful and let them know it. Perhaps it's worth keeping a piece of old 2" polyethylene hawser, strategically dropped overboard for occasions such as this Only kidding....maybe.


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## misfits (Dec 9, 2011)

Nothing personal Take Five but coming from the powerboat crowd, I don't think I've seen a powerboat traveling at 26 knots toss up a 48" wake. Unless it's a big ass boat like Mike experienced.
You sure about the size of that wake


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

misfits said:


> Nothing personal Take Five but coming from the powerboat crowd, I don't think I've seen a powerboat traveling at 26 knots toss up a 48" wake. Unless it's a big ass boat like Mike experienced.
> You sure about the size of that wake


Bayliners, searays, other power cruisers, Vikings, most sport fishing boats can do 26kts and throw a massive wake. I test drove a 42' Searay cruiser with two 450hp Caterpillars and it did close to 20 with wrong size props and a fouled bottom.

Even 23' wakeboard boats can throw close to that size wake at that speed.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Nope, not sure of anything. Too busy trying to react to get out a yardstick.

The essence of my point is unchanged by a few inches.

His bow was high, his stern dug in (not on a plane), and he was less than two boat lengths away from me, so no chance for the wake to damp out.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

smurphny said:


> After a few years now, navigating the ICW down South, I can count on one hand the times an irresponsible idiot has done something like this. The overwhelming majority of power boaters seem to be very good at making contact and doing a slow pass. It really is a pain for them and I'm always grateful and let them know it. Perhaps it's worth keeping a piece of old 2" polyethylene hawser, strategically dropped overboard for occasions such as this Only kidding....maybe.


Oh come one now !!!!!! if one gets severely waked on the AICW, 99% of the time its a New Jersey Boat and usually its a BIG 'sport fisher', ('cept JonEberg, of course). :-o
In NJ, its probably in their DNA to wake 'everyone and everything', especially in the NJ inlets - just like driving the ever-courteous NJ turnpike. Everyone there does this (including and especially the water cops); and therefore, a severe waking should be 'EXPECTED' anywhere near NJ. 
So, its probably a widely accepted 'cultural thing' endemic to NJ.

This is Nih-Jezzey, Viva Yo!!!!! 
(and where a middle finger salute is always optionally appropriate) 
:eek

;-)


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## oysterman23 (Jul 22, 2011)

RichH said:


> Oh come one now !!!!!! if one gets severely waked on the AICW, 99% of the time its a New Jersey Boat and usually its a BIG 'sport fisher', ('cept JonEberg, of course). :-o
> In NJ, its probably in their DNA to wake 'everyone and everything', especially in the NJ inlets - just like driving the ever-courteous NJ turnpike. Everyone there does this (including and especially the water cops); and therefore, a severe waking should be 'EXPECTED' anywhere near NJ.
> So, its probably a widely accepted 'cultural thing' endemic to NJ.
> 
> ...


Well, Jersey cant hog all the credit my fellow boaters on south shore Long. Island can be unbelievable. Sunday headin back in a north south cut I had several 26-34' powerboats over take me within 30' pulling most of the available water with them few slow down at all some slow down enough to maximize wake a few know their boats well enough to get on plane and bear off courteously. Two larger boats saw me clutching air horn and slowed down with a wave .Nice to know there are some who still know out there. As long as my sails are full I surf the first wave then bear up into the next trough. One time someone came within 18 ft in light air and I nearly broached onto the adjoining bar. Bloody people do not think.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

^well at least you get to practice your heavy weather skills for a few moments and then it's over...


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## azguy (Jul 17, 2012)

two words "air horn"


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Rick,
I had an interesting conversation with a state water cop on Barnegat Bay a couple of seasons ago. A guy bought a new sport fishing boat on Forked River just up stream from our marina and was routinely throwing a two foot wake into all the docked boats downstream early every Sunday morning when he headed out. He would actually scream at back at the people on the dock that his boat "couldn't go any slower" and laugh as he was going by. At this point a couple of people had had minor damage.

The state cop told me they couldn't do anything because the incidents were taking place when they had no one on duty (don't ask). He said the procedure was to take down the boat's numbers, then go to the local PD and file a "reckless operation" complaint. The owner would then be compelled to show up in court, and if found guilty they'd be liable for any damages. The person swearing out the complaint would also be required to show up in court. 

He said he'd mention it to one of the locals to have a chat with the guy. I assume he did because the waking stopped right after that.

Depending on how pissed you are and what side of the river it happened on, you might consider going to the local PD. But if Philly would have jurisdiction I don't think I'd waste my time. 

Best of luck
Jim


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

RichH said:


> Oh come one now !!!!!! if one gets severely waked on the AICW, 99% of the time its a New Jersey Boat and usually its a BIG 'sport fisher', ('cept JonEberg, of course). :-o
> In NJ, its probably in their DNA to wake 'everyone and everything', especially in the NJ inlets - just like driving the ever-courteous NJ turnpike. Everyone there does this (including and especially the water cops); and therefore, a severe waking should be 'EXPECTED' anywhere near NJ.
> So, its probably a widely accepted 'cultural thing' endemic to NJ.
> 
> ...


Nope, wrong. The last one I remember doing that was from Montauk. It WAS a 50'+ sportfisher. A Similar culture there on LI. Not all of LI, mind you, just from Manhattan to Montauk.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

JimMcGee said:


> ...He said the procedure was to take down the boat's numbers, then go to the local PD and file a "reckless operation" complaint. The owner would then be compelled to show up in court, and if found guilty they'd be liable for any damages. The person swearing out the complaint would also be required to show up in court....Depending on how pissed you are and what side of the river it happened on, you might consider going to the local PD. But if Philly would have jurisdiction I don't think I'd waste my time...


Since there was no permanent damage I am not interested in getting the authorities involved. However, I am interested in all the responses that lay out the procedures for what to do if something happens in the future.

For the record, this happened very much on the Pennsylvania/Philadelphia side of the river. In fact, that's one of the odd things about his chosen path, because I was pretty far over near the Philly piers, and this guy had the whole river open on my port side. So he almost had to make a special effort to pass on my starboard side because he was so close to the bulkheads. In fact, it was so close that his wake reflected off the bulkheads back over to me after he passed me. (The reflections were nowhere near as high as the primary wake.)

One of the points of my original post was that when these guys are transmitting AIS, it's like they have a "radar gun" on themselves all the time. I think it could be valuable evidence for LEAs to use against them if someone presses charges.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

RichH said:


> In NJ, its probably in their DNA to wake 'everyone and everything', especially in the NJ inlets - just like driving the ever-courteous NJ turnpike.


Rich I KNEW I liked you!

PS: Wife is from 'Jerrrrsee so I pick lightheartedly. We live in the Poconos, and we're pretty well convinced most of NYC comes to stay with us every weekend... Our area is a parking lot from 5pm to 9pm every Sunday night (people going home to NJ, or NY). By the way many of those from "out of state" also frequent our local lake where I have my boat. we have a max speed limit on the lake weekends of 45mph... and YES it's exceeded often, mostly by Lake Lice (I mean PWC).


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I have a friend who works the summer patrolling an Adirondack Lake

I always like to go to breakfast with him in the fall, to hear his stories. Even with his boat identified as a 'patrol boat' people do crazy things right in front of him.

The stories kind of fall in several categories:

The person is renting a boat (wave runner usually) and thought --- what happens on vacation stays on vacation

Along the same lines: I'm a tourist, you have to accept what I do
Conversely: I live here, I can do what I want.

I paid $$$ for my boat and I will do what I want.

and generally speaking, all have some degree of alcohol involved.

=================================

There is a Gallagher joke where he thinks people should be given a rubber sticker gun when they drive a car (boat) and every time someone cuts you off or does something stupid you shoot a sticker dart to the bumper (stern) of the guy. Then if a police officer sees a car (boat) driving around with five darts on it, he just arrests the guy for being an ars*hole


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## Dfok (Apr 11, 2010)

Hello Rick - 
it is indeed a small ( and highly connected) world. A dark blue hulled motor vessel "The Tardis" slalomed through the traffic on the Sassafas River on July 5th. He was at the GYB fuel dock when our fleet joined the parade of boats heading home from the 4th of July fireworks. 
A short time later I assumed he mistook the "end of 6 mph" marker for a starting gun. "The Tardis" (metal nameplate on the stern, cutout so you can see the neon/led glow of the guy who just almost ran you down) was not the only nor the worse offender. 
Maybe some of those folks get their jollies from endangering others as they pass, I believe most are obnoxiously oblivious. 
"The Tardis" blew by me probably about 60 - 80 feet to port with a four foot wake ( give or take an couple inches). Guess that is his signature move. I was more concerned for the folks in small runabouts, fishing and rowboats he was buzzing. Sadly if travelling at 20 plus knots he gets to rock a lot of boats.
A**wipe is far to kind a term for such an A**&#(*"*%> !
all the best
Brazen Article


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Denis,

That's the same guy. I vividly remember the navy blue hull, but he passed me too fast to see his transom. His vessel name came up on AIS, and also was verified by the MMSI database.

I was running OpenCPN at the time, which has a really nice plugin that records an entire stream of NMEA data (your boat, all other boats, plus depth, wind, and any other instrumentation). Then you can play it back later, showing all boat locations on the screen as they move relative to each other. It will even replicate any alarms that went off. Unfortunately, you need to set it to record ahead of time, and I didn't have time to do that. (There have been times in the past when saw an interesting flotilla approaching, or something similarly noteworthy, that caused me to turn on the record function).

However, I did have the presence of mind to save his cached AIS track a few minutes after he passed me (more frequent points than marinetraffic.com), and I also had captured my own GPS track. So I brought these up tonight to see if my recollections were accurate. I've overlaid the two tracks in the below pic. You can clearly see the little dodge maneuver I did to attempt to turn into his wake after he had passed me. You can also see in the blowup at the bottom that he passed me 16.3 meters away, which is 54 feet. So I was not exaggerating. I did apparently exaggerate his speed, though. I said 26 knots, which I saw that he was doing after he passed me (when I brought up the AIS target info). At the exact moment that he passed me, he was only doing 24.2 knots. I guess he must have slowed down for me. :eek


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

a second sighting of his activities. Maybe worth reporting just to try getting him to slow down. There's a lot of smaller vessels that would likely not turn out so well with him flying through.


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## capt jgwinks (Sep 24, 2013)

I find it easier to turn my stern to the wake in close quarters. The bow would be better but you'd have to turn almost 180 degrees to do it. Putting your stern to the wake only requires about 20 degrees so you usually can get it done before the wake hits you. The result is not much different than running downwind in a big sea. Not as good as bow on but better than rolling beam to beam.
Ditto for reporting the guy to the CG or local law. Some marinas and property owners do this routinely for people damaging their docks.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

capt jgwinks said:


> I find it easier to turn my stern to the wake in close quarters...


I've done that for smaller wakes. But my walk-through transom with outboard well would guarantee that I'd get pooped with a wake that size. Also would be a total guarantee that my prop would come out of the water after the crest, and the powerhead might even go underwater after the trough. Stern-to would have been the absolute worst option for my boat in this situation.


capt jgwinks said:


> The bow would be better but you'd have to turn almost 180 degrees to do it.


Nowhere close to 180 degrees. A passing boat traveling 24 knots generates a wake that is traveling almost transverse to his own direction. So getting your bow pointed angled toward it is less than 45 degrees.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Last weekend anchored in potters cove. Open anchorage with no channel. Got buzzed a few times by 40-50' stink potters. Let out dinghy to end of painter. At least kept them 30' off the stern. Guy near me in old novi hull through out some of his lobster pick ups. Between us kept stinkers away from our sterns.
Rude is rude. It pisses off the guys in the white hats as well even if they are power boaters.
Coming home clearing narrow spot near a light house. Going wing and wing with bride running the boat to increase her experience. Small sail boat on starboard beat with deck sweeping Genoa out going through same spot. Gybe my jib to port and give him room. He changes course and nearly hits us. Yes he was on starboard tack but he had plenty of room to maintain course and we were draft limited at that spot. Asked if he saw us when we were 5-10'. Got "I'm on starboard tack expletive expletive expletive."
Rude is rude even if it's a sailboat.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

TakeFive said:


> Since there was no permanent damage I am not interested in getting the authorities involved. However, I am interested in all the responses that lay out the procedures for what to do if something happens in the future.


Rick, believe me I'm not one to go looking for trouble but I was at the point of considering a handheld RPG for this guy. When I saw the local water cop hanging out in our marina, asking for his advice got the job done in a low key way. :wink



Rhapsody-NS27 said:


> a second sighting of his activities. Maybe worth reporting just to try getting him to slow down. There's a lot of smaller vessels that would likely not turn out so well with him flying through.


Daniel, it sounds like a matter of time until this guy hurts someone.

I wonder if he's the type to get some pleasure out of this or if he really doesn't know the harm he could cause. More than once I've had conversations with local power boaters who had no idea what their wakes could cause -- either way it sounds like he's due for a wake up call...


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## Dfok (Apr 11, 2010)

QUOTE=JimMcGee;2908753]

.......I wonder if he's the type to get some pleasure out of this or if he really doesn't know the harm he could cause. More than once I've had conversations with local power boaters who had no idea what their wakes could cause -- .......[/QUOTE]

You are probably right, as you say most likely they have no idea what is happening in their wake. 
Swerving through the flotsam and jetsam of the hoi polloi at high speed takes concentration. One would not want to get champagne on the club tie or jostle the Grey Poupon at 20+ knots - no time to look behind, someone might scratch the hull by not getting out of the way snappily! 
Expensive as those yachts are they do not come with the rearview mirror commonly seen on a bicycle. 20 feet above the water and forward of the noise and damage they distribute, our masters of the universe most likely interpret the shaking fists, single finger salutes and all that chatter on the radio as simple envy. 
As mentioned before, probably the best bet is to broadcast on channel 16 the location, direction and speed of the nautical hazard.:eek


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Don't you guys carry flare guns onboard? :grin


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I guess he was very hungry, so in a hurry to get to the Chesapeake Inn:


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

outbound said:


> ...
> Small sail boat on starboard beat with deck sweeping Genoa out going through same spot. Gybe my jib to port and give him room.* He changes course* and nearly hits us. Yes he was on starboard tack but he had plenty of room to maintain course and we were draft limited at that spot. Asked if he saw us when we were 5-10'. Got "I'm on starboard tack expletive expletive expletive."
> Rude is rude even if it's a sailboat.


If it gives you any satisfaction, the guy was in the wrong. He was the stand-on vessel and not supposed to change his course. If he did, it was his responsibility to avoid you. Starboard tack is irrelevant.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> If it gives you any satisfaction, the guy was in the wrong. He was the stand-on vessel and not supposed to change his course. If he did, it was his responsibility to avoid you. Starboard tack is irrelevant.


I noticed that too, and had started to type it earlier today when a meeting started. As stand-on you have to maintain course and speed. It's an obligation, not a right-of-way.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Sounds like someone needs to sneak onto Tardis with some blue paint and remove all the "is"


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Thanks guys. That's my understanding as well. Back out into the bumper cars of Narragansett Bay.
Thing is the increasing attitude of some of the nouveau rich of entitlement and the ennui of of the judgement proof underclass. The solid citizens aware they share the world with others are increasingly affronted with these egocentric people.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

outbound said:


> Thanks guys. That's my understanding as well. Back out into the bumper cars of Narragansett Bay.
> Thing is the increasing attitude of some of the nouveau rich of entitlement and the ennui of of the judgement proof underclass. The solid citizens aware they share the world with others are increasingly affronted with these egocentric people.


It's not just the rich. I've had plenty of bubba bowriders with operators in cut off camo attempt to swamp my canoe or kayak almost certainly on purpose over the years.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Has anyone taken the New Jersey boater course recently?

I took it when the requirement first came in, but I don't remember them paying any attention to boat wakes at all during the class. Just a multiple choice question on the test that you should slow down in a no wake zone.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

JimMcGee said:


> Has anyone taken the New Jersey boater course recently...I don't remember them paying any attention to boat wakes at all during the class...


I wouldn't expect them to cover this in the Joisey voision of the coise.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

OK, I'm feeling feisty tonight, so I sent this non-anonymous note to the guy on Facebook. I'm curious to see if I get a polite response, or the usual New Jersey "FU" salute:


> Bryan, I have a friendly suggestion for you. I think that you need to be more careful about your speed and distance with which you pass other boaters. You passed me on the Delaware River last Saturday morning (July 11) at 11:18. You were going 24 knots and were less than 60 feet away. Your 4-foot wake made a mess of my cabin and nearly swamped my 25 foot sailboat. I tried to hail you on the radio, but you did not respond.
> 
> I mentioned this incident to a friend who sails on the Sassafras River, and he said that you had done something similar to him on July 5. He even described your boat exactly - blue hull, "The Tardis."
> 
> ...


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

There was a period where I delivered six gold plate Sport fishermen north each spring, and south each fall. 4 days from Lauderdale to Norfolk.
I would try to be as courteous as possible, but the sail boats had to do their part for things to go well for both parties.
If a power boat in the ditch (well anywhere, actually) comes off a plane to pass a sail boat, then the sail boat must slow down to idle speed to allow the power boat to go by with a minimum wake. If the sail boat maintains his speed of say 5 knots, then the power boat must do at least 8 to get by in a reasonable amount of time. At that speed, he is definitely throwing a bigger wake.
It is a give and take situation and both parties need to under stand how to make it easy on the other.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

This seems like a lot of time and energy to expend just for getting waked by a powerboat. Whatever makes you happy, I guess.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

caberg said:


> This seems like a lot of time and energy to expend just for getting waked by a powerboat. Whatever makes you happy, I guess.


I agree, except it will not make me happy.

I've been waked by dozens of sport fishers, especially on the Elk River and C&D Canal. It happens, no big deal. But never like this. 24 knots at 50 feet is crazy. (60 foot distance between our GPSs - subtract 50% of our beams, and it's only 50 feet) And he did the same thing to others a week earlier. If someone doesn't warn him, he may really hurt someone. That's why I wrote to him.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Coming around Sandy hook, a few years ago, trying to beat out on a light wind some idiot did something similar overtaking me. It shook all the wind out of my sails, threw stuff around, and of course, warranted the obligatory middle finger salute. I probably should have just motored out of there instead of sailing in Sandy Hook Channel so my decision to have sails up in the land of the discourteous was partly at fault. Sometimes you just have to figure that you are in hostile territory and plan accordingly


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

With the increase in the number of vessels on the water is it time for some kind of meaningful boating education?

Real education, not the "Forest Gump" test that New Jersey and other states give boaters now.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Aww...they moderated the topic line! I liked it the way it was.


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## tjvanginkel (Sep 26, 2006)

Take five,
I applaud the tone of your message to the offending boater. He is much more likely to understand his obligation to other vessels on the water than from the standard one fingered salute response! And way to go in bringing the matter to his attention! I have always believed that it is best to address things directly to the person involved. Way to do the research and stick with it!


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Any response from him?


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

No. It is possible he has not seen it. Since we're not friends on Facebook, it goes into his "Other" box instead of his Inbox. In order to deliver it to his Inbox, I would need to pay money to Facebook, which I refuse to do. So it might be awhile before he actually sees it.


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## johnsonjay17 (Jul 20, 2015)

It isn't just up there that it happens. I was returning to my dock last weekend in Clear Lake TX. I was sailing in a narrow channel pretty close to the wind. I went to start the motor while my son's girlfriend maintained the tiller. When a 45-50' powerboat overtook us at about 10-15 knots. Just off plane making a huge wake. Maybe 20' off our port. I didn't make it to the tiller in time and the boat violently turned into the wind when the rudder lost purchase with the water. This caused us to turn into the center of the channel were his buddy was following with a similar sized yacht. His buddy had to take action to keep from hitting us he missed us by maybe 15 feet. 
The buddy was yelling to get out of the channel. I guess he doesn't know my 25 foot boat requires about the same draft as his?

JJ


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

johnsonjay17 said:


> It isn't just up there that it happens. I was returning to my dock last weekend in Clear Lake TX. I was sailing in a narrow channel pretty close to the wind. I went to start the motor while my son's girlfriend maintained the tiller. When a 45-50' powerboat overtook us at about 10-15 knots. Just off plane making a huge wake. Maybe 20' off our port. I didn't make it to the tiller in time and the boat violently turned into the wind when the rudder lost purchase with the water. This caused us to turn into the center of the channel were his buddy was following with a similar sized yacht. His buddy had to take action to keep from hitting us he missed us by maybe 15 feet.
> The buddy was yelling to get out of the channel. I guess he doesn't know my 25 foot boat requires about the same draft as his?
> 
> JJ


Your 25 probably required more draft than his.


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## johnsonjay17 (Jul 20, 2015)

seaner97 said:


> Your 25 probably required more draft than his.


Most likely you are right I take 5 feet with the keelboard down. As the channel was narrowing I was in the process of starting the motor and raising the Keelboard.

JJ


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## GaryM (Feb 21, 2015)

I've had similiar inciddents happen in the bay here. Some even wave as they pass. Bext I can think of is want to be friendly but are actually being an ass.
Sometimes I wonder if a deck gun (to the engine, not the operator) would be a good answer..


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Surprisingly, on the Chesapeake I actually did have one big boat who was overtaking us slow down in plenty of time, swing way off his course away from us, come back onto his course after he'd overtaken us and then pick up speed. I was astounded but I did manage to get my brain back on line to radio my thanks.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

DRFerron said:


> Surprisingly, on the Chesapeake I actually did have one big boat who was overtaking us slow down in plenty of time, swing way off his course away from us, come back onto his course after he'd overtaken us and then pick up speed. I was astounded but I did manage to get my brain back on line to radio my thanks.


Such is quite common on the AICW. 
However, there's 2 parts to this equation of courtesy and concern ... the 'sailboat' when in a tight channel has the responsibility to slow down to idle speed (or release the sheets, etc.) pull to the side, so that 'the pass' is over and done quickly and without throwing wakes at one another. If done correctly and with radio contact, will only take 'seconds' for a smooth pass and without hardly any speed loss for either boat.

However 'the safe passing rule' usually doesnt apply to NJ and NYC boats, who will usually/customarily not do this; plus, will additionally flip-you-the-bird while youre over on you beam ends due to their excessive wake or even to increase to bow-up for an even larger wake and faster pass. One usually can hear on the VHF when a NJ or NYC boat is in close proximity ... by the loud invective being transmitted on VHF. 
;-)


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

Just to be a little controversial here, concerning the original post, around here in SF Bay you can expect to be hit by a pretty big wake at any time. I am a little uneasy with the principle suggested by the OP, which is to assume it's going to be a very calm day and then hold any boat responsible for items that may fall down due to their wake. It's your responsibility to make sure that the boat is ship shape, and that includes storing fragile items properly.


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## misfits (Dec 9, 2011)

Like Rich said, it is common courtesy & common sense to not create a wake that will put others in harms way. Being boaters, when you're navigating outside a no wake zone, you should expect the unexpected.

The issue really becomes what is considered an acceptable wake? That pain threshold is different for everyone & if people think everyone is going to slow down just because you're in a sailboat, time to find another sport. I've had some powerboaters that I wanted to flip off but the reality is the size of a wake looks a lot different when one is sitting up in flybridge as opposed to viewing it an eye level....

I do hope that Take Fives approach to the issue with this particular boater works out favorably. 

Bob


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

RichH said:


> Such is quite common on the AICW...


And that was my experience there. On the leg we traveled the power boats that passed us were very courteous.

On the Chesapeake, however, it is rare.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Coincidentally, some of my family are stinkpotters. It's really funny to be aboard and see them get pissed at another stinkpotter for tossing a tsunami, when one thinks they are in a congested place where wakes should be controlled.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Coincidentally, some of my family are stinkÀpotters. It's really funny to be aboard and see them get pissed at another stinkpotter for tossing a tsunami, when one thinks they are in a congested place where wakes should be controlled.


The entire rest of my family are stink potters who like going fast. NASCAR fans, too. They're the type that "roll coal" and intentionally force bicyclists off the road and swamp canoeists because "they shouldn't be there". They aren't from NYC or NJ. Would fit in well, however, except their politics is decidedly Tx or Louisiana bayou. Maybe parts of Fla. They never get pissed over tsunamis, and generally are the reason I am in favor of mandatory boating courses for anything over 6hp.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

MarkSF said:


> ...I am a little uneasy with the principle suggested by the OP, which is to assume it's going to be a very calm day and then hold any boat responsible for items that may fall down due to their wake. It's your responsibility to make sure that the boat is ship shape, and that includes storing fragile items properly.


Wow, you've really misinterpreted what I wrote. Let's go back and see what I actually wrote:


TakeFive said:


> ...Nothing got permanently damaged on my boat...


OK, so there's nothing for me to hold him responsible for in this incident. I made that explicitly clear.


TakeFive said:


> ...Fortunately my laptop was stowed on the floor in a bag - I had removed it from the dinette table before departing...


I did take proactive steps to store my fragile items properly.


TakeFive said:


> ...But other things did get tossed around quite a bit...


The non-fragile items got tossed around. I have a few open bags that were sitting in the aft berth, and they tumbled over and their contents got commingled a bit and had to be sorted into their appropriate bags and re-stored. They weren't damaged because they were on a mattress - which is why I hadn't bothered to do anything special. Had I planned to sail and heel the boat over, these would have been stowed differently to avoid the inconvenience. But no permanent damage was done to these items because of where they were stowed, and because they were not particularly fragile.

In a later post I did speculate on possibly getting pooped and/or my outboard getting fully submerged, but I never said that those things actually happened. I believe that they may have happened if I had been unable to get my bow turned somewhat toward the wake. Had those things happened, he may have been held accountable for any damage or injury.

My warning to the guy was that he could be held liable for damage or injury, like sinking a rowboat or causing a small child to fall overboard. I never said that he actually did those things. But I believe that it is possible that he may cause something like this if he doesn't change his ways. If I had any passengers aboard, especially a child, I would have been very nervous.

My message to him was as much a test of the NJ stereotype as a request for change. I'm curious whether a politely worded, non-anonymous message will get an equally polite response, or the stereotypical angry NJ response. Or maybe no response at all. It's not a big enough deal for me to worry about, just a mild curiosity.


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## Carrie.a.gordon (May 30, 2015)

Take five, you should post to his wall. Lol.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Carrie.a.gordon said:


> Take five, you should post to his wall. Lol.


Only friends can do that.


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## Carrie.a.gordon (May 30, 2015)

Bummer


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Any response?


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

JimMcGee said:


> Any response?


Nope. I'm not holding my breath - too much other stuff to do.


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## ggray (Jun 18, 2011)

Next time... a picture is worth a thousand words. Pull out your video camera.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

ggray said:


> Next time... a picture is worth a thousand words. Pull out your video camera.


If you've ever been in this situation, you know that a singlehanded captain has his hands full maneuvering the boat to avoid pitchpoling, pooping, going broach, etc. With a boat passing you at that speed, he is gone before you can get a camera out.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

is always good to have videos of the problem. is a very good way to actually catch the attention of those who enforce speed and wake zones, and judges and juries love them.


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## ggray (Jun 18, 2011)

TakeFive said:


> If you've ever been in this situation, you know that a singlehanded captain has his hands full maneuvering the boat to avoid pitchpoling, pooping, going broach, etc. With a boat passing you at that speed, he is gone before you can get a camera out.


My comment wasn't meant as a criticism, only a suggestion of what might be useful, and as a reminder of the same to myself. If such a situation can be seen developing, film the offender. Should you need to quickly set down the device while it is still recording, that indicates something as well.

Another example: some years ago I was approaching a high rise bridge on the ICW. Noticed some kids standing on top, in line with my direction of travel. Suspicious, I steered over to the left. They followed suit. I steered back to the right, and the kids did as well. When I passed under, one dropped a pebble or coin which hit the deck.

I resolved to pull out my camera if faced with this sort of situation. I think it would be particularly effective in a "waking" situation, especially if one were very obviously filming the event. I'll bet the offending boat would quickly drop his speed if he knew he was being caught on camera.


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## saillife (Jun 25, 2006)

Just to add a little levity to this. On my trip down the ICW with the wife a few years back we had only two really bad passing experiences. One in Florida and the other in N.C.

The N.C. one was priceless. We're putting down a canal about half a mile from a timed bridge. No rush, bridge won't open for 15 minuets when a 40 something searay comes flying past us and leaves us rocking through 60 degrees. Just after passing us he gets on the radio and asks the tender to open the bridge. The response was priceless! 
Bridge tender "I'm surprised you weren't shot at" 
Mr. searay "what do you mean?"
Bridge tender "If you left me rocking like you did that sailboat I would have shot at you and the bridge won't open for another 15 minuets"


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