# Favorite penetrating oil that DOESN'T STINK!



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

I tried to hire a diesel mechanic for the first time in 12 years of old boat ownership. He didn't seem excited to do the job and told me to apply penetrating oil to the rusty prop-shaft coupler several times and then maybe he'd come back and do the work.

Hmmmm..... if it was easy, I would have done it myself. 

I've never been a penetrating oil kind of guy. I prefer the "heat beat and repeat" method. But I took his suggestion and bought some Kroll oil and applied it in copious quantities.Several days later, as I was approaching the boat, I noticed a strong "simple green-like" smell. It was the Kroll oil! My entire boat stinks now, and I can smell it from the dock. 

Needless to say the kroll oil will not be used again. What about PB-blaster or "break-free"? Any other favorites that don't get you high like brake cleaner does, or smell so strongly that it overpowers the usual eu-du-boat?

MedSailor


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

PB-blaster works but it does stink


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Pb is good stuff


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

PB is good but Liquid Wrench is even better.


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## DannyboyUpstate (Aug 27, 2012)

The thing about penetrating oil is that it's designed to break rusted parts apart. Not leave a pleasing aromatic fragrance. 

Also, Kroil does not smell like Simple Green.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Kroil, PB blaster, or liquid wrench. All 3 work pretty well if given enough time to stink up the joint. 

Heat should be used as a last resort. Another thing you can try is having a welder come out and weld a new nut onto the one that you will probably round off. Sometimes the heat from the welding is almost enough to break it free. Works reall well, but I wouldn't re-use the hardware.


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## SVTatia (May 7, 2007)

Whatever oils is used, a word of caution.

I have read a post by Maine Sail to ensure you don't let the penetrating oil get anywhere near your transmission shaft as it will ruin the seals with catastrophic results.
Unfortunately I don't have the link to the post. But be careful.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

yep, be careful wiht penetrating oil- a little goes a long way. you don't need to immerse whatever you are attempting to unstick in a vat of the stuff. You don't want to get anywhere near transimmission seals- they don;'t like each other.

Penetrating oil doesn't like to work alone- to get the best results, give it some help. Brush all of the loose rust off the parts to be unstuck. Spray a shot, have a cup of coffee, come back, wrench on it. spray it with another shot. if it's still stuck, spray it with another shot, leave it overnight, spray it again in the morning, wrench it again in the afternoon.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

The vibration from light hammering also helps.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

The April/May 2007 edition of Machinist's Workshop did a test of penetrating oils where they measured the force required to loosen rusty test devices. Buy the issue if you want to see how they did the test. The results reported were interesting. The lower the number of pounds the better. Mighty interesting results for simple acetone and tranny fluid!

Penetrating oil . Average load .. Price per fluid ounce
None .................. 516 pounds .
WD-40 .............. 238 pounds ... $0.25
PB Blaster ......... 214 pounds .. $0.35
Liquid Wrench ... 127 pounds .. $0.21
Kano Kroil ........ 106 pounds .. $0.75
ATF-Acetone mix.. 53 pounds .. $0.10

The ATF-Acetone mix was a 50/50 mix (1 to 1 ratio).


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

ATF? Does it matter which type?

I'm just wondering what they used for tests. On old rusted bolts, I've never seen WD40 work the same way the PBlaster does. And, of course, you have to lay in Kroil a week or two before you need it, mail order only.


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## Stu Jackson (Jul 28, 2001)

In answer to the OP question

They ALL *stink* (smell horrible)

Most of them work, I find PBB works best for me after using WD40 and LW.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

I haven't read the article, but from the table provided I have a serious problem with it. "Nothing" works better than everything listed other than ATF? My 50 years of monkey wrenching begs to differ if I'm interpreting this correctly. Maybe it explains it in the details.

PB seems to give the most consistent results from my experience. Plain old #2 diesel is a close second IMO.

All but WD40 stink, and it doesn't work (for loosening rusted parts).


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Fstbttms said:


> The April/May 2007 edition of Machinist's Workshop did a test of penetrating oils where they measured the force required to loosen rusty test devices. Buy the issue if you want to see how they did the test. The results reported were interesting. The lower the number of pounds the better. Mighty interesting results for simple acetone and tranny fluid!
> 
> Penetrating oil . Average load .. Price per fluid ounce
> None .................. 516 pounds .
> ...


I saw this a few weeks ago and was surprised that PB Blaster wasn't much better than WD-40. Since I don't want to mix my own, the next time I go to the hardware, I'm getting a can of Liquid Wrench for my toolbox. Seems to be the best bang for my buck.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

jrd22 said:


> I haven't read the article, but from the table provided I have a serious problem with it. "Nothing" works better than everything listed other than ATF?


You're misreading the table, I think.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

DannyboyUpstate said:


> The thing about penetrating oil is that it's designed to break rusted parts apart. Not leave a pleasing aromatic fragrance.
> 
> Also, Kroil does not smell like Simple Green.


Somebody switch your morning coffee with decaf? 

MedSailor


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## DannyboyUpstate (Aug 27, 2012)

MedSailor said:


> Somebody switch your morning coffee with decaf?
> 
> MedSailor


Nope, just hear customers complain about smells of things all the time.


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## OPossumTX (Jul 12, 2011)

Fstbttms said:


> The April/May 2007 edition of Machinist's Workshop did a test of penetrating oils where they measured the force required to loosen rusty test devices. Buy the issue if you want to see how they did the test. The results reported were interesting. The lower the number of pounds the better. Mighty interesting results for simple acetone and tranny fluid!
> 
> Penetrating oil . Average load .. Price per fluid ounce
> None .................. 516 pounds .
> ...


Please be advised that acetone will attack many plastics to destruction. You don't want acetone in contact with polyester bonded fibreglass or you may find that your plastic boat is now feeling more like putty or rubber where the acetone touched it.

I know that several other penetrating oils will also attack plastic as I once saw a fellow try to borrow a "cup" of Kroil. His styrene foam cup dissolved before he could get it three steps away.

The very properties which make penetrants work through layers of old paint and accumulated congealed grease make them vicious when contacting many plastics.

I would not let any of these products touch any important rubber, paint, wood or plastic as most of them will be damaged sooner or later by the exposure.

Be safe!
O'

p.s. Click the link for Main Sail's $800 PB Blaster tale of woe! http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/33279-pb-blaster-penetrating-oil-warning.html


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Well Ship! On the advice of my mechanic I sprayed it liberally all over the engine and transmission. 

Now what should I do? Is there something even more toxic I can use to fix the problem? i.e. the two wrongs making a right theory? Should I just mop it all up and hope for the best?

Why is it every time I hire an "expert" for my boat something bad happens.... 

MedSailor


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

*rofl*

Hey Med,

Ever hear of the phrase "first world problems" ? We should coin a new term: "big boat problems."

I think you should sell the yanmar, and downsize till your boat can be adequately pushed by a 2-stroke johnson.

Till then I'm running out to buy some atf and acetone. Boy, what can'tcha learn on SN!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Well, if you want to unstick something in a non-toxic bio_re_gradeable fashion...buy a Co2 extinguisher. Ice the parts down, let 'em warm up, ice 'em down again. Repeat up to 3 times if need be, and you should be able to unstick most anything on the boat.

Anybody complains about a smell from Co2, you ice them down too.


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## driz (Jan 6, 2013)

Fstbttms said:


> The April/May 2007 edition of Machinist's Workshop did a test of penetrating oils where they measured the force required to loosen rusty test devices. Buy the issue if you want to see how they did the test. The results reported were interesting. The lower the number of pounds the better. Mighty interesting results for simple acetone and tranny fluid!
> 
> Penetrating oil . Average load .. Price per fluid ounce
> None .................. 516 pounds .
> ...


:hothead I have lived in the cursed Rustbelt most of my life and boy I wish I had known this decades ago. It would have saved me a few hundred hours and countless busted knuckles, burns a couple black eyes and no doubt a couple broken sockets, ratchets and a breaker bar or two. UNBELIEVABLE .............. Boy I am going to pass this around to my wrench buddies, thanks.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Fast- yeah, duh, what was I thinking?


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Fstbttms said:


> The April/May 2007 edition of Machinist's Workshop did a test of penetrating oils where they measured the force required to loosen rusty test devices. Buy the issue if you want to see how they did the test. The results reported were interesting. The lower the number of pounds the better. Mighty interesting results for simple acetone and tranny fluid!
> 
> Penetrating oil . Average load .. Price per fluid ounce
> None .................. 516 pounds .
> ...


That test came out a while ago. After it came out I tried the ATF / Acetone mix. It works ok, and is pretty cheap per oz, but not as good as they make it sound. I have gone back to Kroil, Thrust and PB.

In the real world I still find PB to be one of the all around best, especially for the price. I also find that non "scientifically rusted" nuts, studs bolts etc. come free much better with PB or Kroil than the ATF / Acetone mix.... Kroil used to be great but the cans I get today are not what I feel it used to be, don't know why, though it is still pricey..

Last year I was doing the brake rotors on my wife's Honda Pilot. The set screws that hold the rotors on are notorious for rusting in place as are the caliper bolts. After two hours of soaking the right side in ATF / Acetone I had only stripped the Phillips heads of the set screws, even with an impact screw driver. One of them finally broke (Doh'!). I blasted the remaining two with PB and waited about 5 minutes. The one unbroken screw came right out with a quick blast of the impact driver despite having almost no grip left to it. I put my Knipex pliers on the broken one and was able to get it out. On the left side I simply sprayed with PB, waited five minutes, and both set screws backed right out with no damage to the heads..... These of course were not "scientifically rusted" on and had been naturally rusted, by real Maine winters...

Thrust is also an excellent product. Liquid Wrench makes numerous products and I find one of them to do okay but not the others. Can't remember which one I like though..

Another old timers trick is Coca Cola.. I still have my ATF / Acetone mix but find I use it pretty rarely.. I suppose if you have lots of "scientifically rusted" parts then the ATF/Acetone stuff would be good..


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

MedSailor said:


> Well Ship! On the advice of my mechanic I sprayed it liberally all over the engine and transmission.
> 
> Now what should I do? Is there something even more toxic I can use to fix the problem? i.e. the two wrongs making a right theory? Should I just mop it all up and hope for the best?
> 
> ...


Maine! I read your "$800 mistake" thread. Am I screwed also or is there anything I can do to reverse the damage?

Also, I will be taking my propeller shaft out in a month come haulout. Is the transmission seal easier to replace with the shaft out?

MedSailor


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

For the record, I take back EVERYTHING bad I said about Kroll oil. The stuff is magic! The smell (which does smell like simple green to me) does disappear in a day or few, depending on how much you use. 

I was in the yard yesterday beating on some rusted together parts with a sledge. They were winning. I decided (since the can was within reach) that it was worth a try. SECONDS LATER the rusted parts were yielding to the mighty blows of the sledge. Absolutely brilliant! 

Also, other parts that were rusted together, that the yard quoted me TEN HOURS to get apart (and another mechanic walked away from) came apart with little resistance after two applications of the magic oil.

Now as long as it hasn't eaten my rear seal to my transmission, I'll be happy. 

MedSailor


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## driz (Jan 6, 2013)

I too use a lot of PB. I like the long range of the stream, its accuracy and the way the foam sticks onto the object. Most any of these will work given time and the right technique. 
I like to start when I can a week in advance. If possible to reach and in do so take a dremel wire wheel, I love those little 1" wire wheels especially for cleaning electrical posts / terminals . They work good on small nuts too but a 4" grinder with wire wheel does better if there is room. Knock the loose stuff off and get the rust swollen bolt head back to size then give it a shot. Give it a shot every day or so whatever along the way and also some sharp raps with a hammer or punch if you can reach it. Keep the penetrant on there doing this. When the day arrives put a good quality socket, and I still much prefer 6 points, and breaker bar and rap it a few times. It should give and often a good wrench will work better as the breaker bar and its connection tend to suck up some of your raps. It should move, if it doesn't try tightening it a tad. If it tightens a tad you're home free. Some more juice and back and forth wiggling will free it, just don't get too mean with it right off. 
Another trick I use if I can is to leave the offending nut / bolt head sitting in a puddle. of oil. Try mastic or even tape, anything to keep the oil sitting there in quantity if you can. Mastic comes in rolls of small ribbons ( they used to use it to seal between car door panels, fenders ect so auto body supply stores have it) and a roll will last a lifetime. Surrounding the nut in a puddle of oil really helps if you can manage it. Even a dam of duct tape under a horizontal mounted bolt keeps some in place. 
Whatever you do when it's out if the bolts are nasty/ pitted try if you can to replace with new. Just make sure you get properly rated ones and not hardware store bin nuts and bolts. If you have to use a torch an old timers book says you HAVE to use coffee. Cherry the offending nut up then use the secret ingredient, coffee. It has an ingredient in it that keeps you from getting carried away and banging on it when still hot. It's called TIME. By the time you go made the coffee and drank it it will have cooled enough to beat on without damaging anything. 
A can of "Never SEIZE" lasts for years, use it where ever you can / should because the next guy (probably you) will thank you for it


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Welcome to the cult of true believers, MedSailor. If you would step this way, to the rear, we have some saffron robes you may be interested in. You get a 10% discount on future reorders if you agree to wear the saffron robes. <VBG>

Amazing stuff, isn't it?

driz, some of the big ox stores have taken to hiding a "tool chest" on the shelves, with metric and stainless hardware jumbled up in it. Once you crack the code and go pearl diving, sometimes there is genuine good hardware in there.

And then there's Ace Hardware, that has little trays of all sorts of good hardware if you ask them where the adult section is.<G> Most peculiar, because if you order from Ace's web site "ship to store, free!" the prices are often only 1/2 or 2/3 of the store's price. Same product, same pickup location, often 33% to 50% off if you wait the three days for the web order. Go figure.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Maine Sail said:


> I blasted the remaining two with PB and waited about 5 minutes. The one unbroken screw came right out with a quick blast of the impact driver despite having almost no grip left to it. I put my Knipex pliers on the broken one and was able to get it out. On the left side I simply sprayed with PB, waited five minutes, and both set screws backed right out with no damage to the heads..... These of course were not "scientifically rusted" on and had been naturally rusted, by real Maine winters...


Since you run into rusted parts on regular basis an have a history of doing practical science perhaps you would be willing to do an experiment.

If your experience is the same as mine we typically find that of several fasteners that are rusted tight often only one or two are really stuck.

If you would for next few projects use pb for half the fasteners and the homemade mix for the other half then the possibility of accidentally getting the easy one every time would be statistically reduced.

The fact that pb blaster worked on the same fastener after the acetone-oil treatment is evidence that pb works better but their is still the possibility that another AO treatment would have worked just as well.

Then again you may just want to get your work done and not amuse us.
Just a thought.


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## driz (Jan 6, 2013)

[
driz, some of the big ox stores have taken to hiding a "tool chest" on the shelves, with metric and stainless hardware jumbled up in it. Once you crack the code and go pearl diving, sometimes there is genuine good hardware in there.

And then there's Ace Hardware, that has little trays of all sorts of good hardware if you ask them where the adult section is.<G> Most peculiar, because if you order from Ace's web site "ship to store, free!" the prices are often only 1/2 or 2/3 of the store's price. Same product, same pickup location, often 33% to 50% off if you wait the three days for the web order. Go figure.[/QUOTE]

Oh boy pearl diving in the metric/us mixed mess, pleeeeeaaasssse. If there is one thing I detest more than metric it's a mix of the vermin. The only way I find to get a proper metric is to take the old one right in my hand to the store, ughhhh. That is just one of the reasons I try to avoid American cars. Metric sucks but they almost exclusively use 12 10 `13 14 17, with little else mainly so they are fairly easy to decipher standing on your head. US cars are splattered with a closely matched mix of everything under the sun. Add some rust and who knows what they are till you round off the bolt.:hothead. It's a good thing that boats are simpler for all our sakes. I heard that Mercury is now making their outboards in compatible bolts meaning 13mm / 1/2 14/mm 9/16. Too bad no one else does. Nothing like good old Coarse or fine threads, so simple.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"The only way I find to get a proper metric is to "
Actually, I bought a couple of little tools last year that I keep kicking myself in the ass for not having boughts a thousand years ago. Thread pitch tools.
Anywhere from $5-20 each, available in metric, english, and beware if there's no label because there are Whitworth as well.
It looks like a little fold-up set of allen keys or feeler gauges, like a little pocket knife. Except each "blade" has a set of teeth cut into one or booth edges, each in a different thread and pitch. So if you hold a bolt against the blades and "1/4x20" matches up, or "8mmx1.5" matches up, whatever it is, it really is.
On the higher priced side of things, they also are sold like a "necklace" where the pearls are different sized nuts. Again, whatever nut fits, that's your thread. (And vice versa, strings of bolts to check your nuts.)

The Home Despot and other places have been kind enough to put "size finders" like that one the hardware shelf, but it is so cheap and easy to just buy the damned things and have them in the tool box. I think Vermont American is one of the inexpensive brands, just an inch long and that's good enough.

Which of course still doesn't help with generic imported junk metal parts that were made on worn out dies for the lowest price.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

So Med, what ever happened to the engine and transmission? Was it toast from all you did? (hope not!!!)


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

jimgo said:


> So Med, what ever happened to the engine and transmission? Was it toast from all you did? (hope not!!!)


Tranny doesn't seem to be leaking, so hopefully the seal is still good. The "alignment" that I hauled out to do turned into a major job. Basically, everything aft of the transmission is being replaced.

The previous owner installed a used prop-shaft that was too short. He had some kind of steel "coupler" fabricated at an auto shop and installed it to take up the space. Needless to say the hunk of rusted metal wasn't true to <3,000inch. Consequently no amount of alignment would help.

Once we started taking it apart we found that it had worn oval shaped holes where the bolts were attached to the transmission. It also had worn my packing gland into something other than a circle.

In order to try and survive from a financial perspective the yard has been kind enough to let me do as much work as possible even though it's not a do-it-yourself yard. Yesterday I cut the propshaft in half to facilitate removal. That was fun. 

When she's all done she'll have a new (everything) and a drip-less packing. Should be good when it's done, except for the bill.... So far (fingers crossed) no damage from the penetrating oil on the tranny.

MedSailor


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Ouch! So sorry to hear that. Glad the yard is being nice!


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