# Sewing machine?



## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Hi all - I've decided I need to get a sewing machine - I've got some bimini repairs to do, and wouldn't mind doing cockpit cushions and the like - knowing next to nothing about sewing machines, I figure this is the place to ask.
I will be buying a used machine via Kajiji, eBay, etc. or perhaps some yard sale or similar to keep costs down. Sailrite would of course be nice, but prices are more than my budget. I don't want a full industrial machine, but I'm aware that many 'retail' machines are capable of doing the job.
What features should the machine have? Obviously a zig zag stitch, but what else?
What machines would you recommend? 
What other stray thoughts do you have on this?

Wally


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

I bought an old Sears machine for $10.00 at a second hand charity store. That machine has sewn all the cushion and tiller covers for our boat. The admiral won't let me use her machine for some reason. Things to look for: all metal gears, name brand, smooth quite action, I like a built in light. Get the one with the accessories if you have a choice. Take material and thread with you to test the machines. Old jeans approximate sunbrella. Sniff the motor to make sure its not burnt. Pfaff is a good machine. Remember stay away from the computer driven multi cam, multi stitch internet connected machines. I wouldn't buy a machine sight unseen, ebay(?), try the second hand stores, and repair shops.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

If you can get a metal frame Pfaff and make sure it is a model that can take a walking foot.

But almost any domestic machine will cope with what you want to do.


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

Any "old" domestic machine...

Look for cast iron construction and all metal gears with a 1.5 amp or better motor...

Lot of them have zig zag and straight stich as standard, and need "cams" for fancy stiching...

I found this one in the attic and payed a $100 to get it timed and tuned...

Sews everything from cushions to sails to sailbags...


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## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

A true walking foot. Nothing else will do, IMO.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

ahhhh...I KNEW I'd find answers here. Now, please help me out a little more - is the walking foot that thingie (technical term, I know!) that sort of moves the cloth past the, is it a presser foot? (and people ***** about nautical terms, sheesh!)
I also just realized that I didn't mention I have some sail repairs to do (I know, that's SO hard to believe!), so are we talking another level of machine here, or do the above comments apply?
Now for a really dumb question - I know I want the thing to do a lock stitch - is that another term for a zig zag stitch?


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

For sewing canvas and cushions, zig-zag is less important than walking-foot, needle feed and even reverse. I started with a Pfaff 130 that had zig-zag and never used that feature.

The next machine was a $325 craigslist Singer 111W155 compound walking-foot (both drop-feed, needle-feed and an alternating presser-foot) but no reverse. The current machine is a Juki LU-1508N that would be way over budget.

True walking-foot sewing machines seem to be industrial machines. Not all walking-foot sewing machines have needle-feed. A significant disadvantage of a non-industrial sewing machine is amount of material that can be gotten under the foot. Beware that the number of layers of canvas and webbing might be more than you imagine.

However, search the archives or wait for a few more posts and opinions will vary widely.
The best opposed advocate might be Sumner who will probably post shortly. If I could sew as well as Ruth, I'd probable agree.

Ruth Canvas Mods Index

Contact me via PM if you'd like to discuss in more detail.


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## cookwithgas (Oct 8, 2007)

Wally:

I had many of the same questions. I purchased a Sailrite zig zag machine. The reason is that Sailrite has super support in the way of tutorial videos and starter kits, etc. Their website is fantastic and all of their stuff fits the machine they offer. I have completed many canvas projects for my boat and Sailrite helped me with all of them. I live near New Orleans, Louisiana - a long way from Sailrite's shop but they have helped me through all of my canvas projects. I purchased their sail pack kit and made a fantastic improvement to my boat with the sail pack alone. View a couple of their free videos on YOutube and I think you will be sold like I am. 

Good luck,

Scott.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Scott, I'm with you on Sailrite all the way. They're superb on support and training, no question about that. If I could afford one of their machines, it would be on board now. And come to think of it, I do have a friend who has gotten out of boating and has one....hmmmmm. Must make a phone call...
Tejasailor - you went way past me with things like 'needlefeed' - and what is the difference between walking foot and 'true' walking foot? Could you explain pls? 
And drop feed?
In my very limited experience, reverse seems to be a must have but I'm willing to be corrected...


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

Walking-foot sewing machines have walking-foot built into the machine. There are walking-foot attachments to machines that lack built-in walking-foot.

Compound walking-foot sewing machines have both drop-feed (bottom-feed) and needle-feed (top-feed) and an alternating presser-foot. Bottom-feed moves the fabric via a feed-dog underneath the fabric. With needle-feed the needle follows an elliptical path and the needle pulls the material through the machine. Lacking needle-feed, the top layers of material lag the bottom layers. The following links might be helpful. Do click on "show more" on the YouTube video.

Sewing machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






Sailrite is a good source for materials, notions and tools, and also for video tutorials and support. That doesn't necessary mean Sailrite sewing machines are the best that can bought for the money. Sailrite sewing machines are reported to be made in Taiwan or China and do not seem to have a good reputation with folks who sew canvas for a profession. Not all Sailrite walking-foot machines have needle-feed. BTW, I failed to mention that I had initially purchased a Sailrite walking-foot sewing machine and returned it because even with excellent phone support could not seem get it adjusted.

Reverse is used mostly for back-tack. Lacking reverse, with the needle down merely turn the material 180 degrees and sew the back-tack. Having said that, reverse is also useful in difficult fabric manage situations. For example, sewing reinforcement in the middle of a large project, sometimes I'll stitch a short run entirely in reverse just because it seems easier than wrestling the fabric around to go forward. However, I'd even trade-off reverse for knee- or foot-lift just to be able get more material under the foot.

While only an industrial sewing machine consideration, servo motors versus clutch haven't yet been mentioned. More on that if anyone is interested.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Wikipedia - who'd a thunk it? Tejas, this has been very helpful, thank you! Now, when I see a machine for sale, I'll know what I need to ask and what I want. 
One thing I've noticed is that older machines, those with all metal gears, are superior to more modern machines. What thoughts on that?
Also - is a zig zag stitch actually a lock stitch? Or are they different?


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

And what is the importance of being able to adjust the length and width of the stitch? Is that vital, necessary, nice or not really needed?


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## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

A walking foot, when the needle is up and out of the material, moves in conjunction with the feeder teeth. Without a walking foot, the foot just goes up and down and those little teeth are supposed to move the material by themselves. They can do that with thin materials but if it's thick and heavy they won't move the material. You must pull it through and you generally can't pull it through at the right speed.
Both of my parents are upholsterers. I learned to sew at 4. I bought a Sailrite and though it isn't perfect (and it wasn't $3000.00 either) it's portable and it works very well. I'd do the same again. You need zig-zag for sail repair.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

Length of the stitch is important. Fabric tends to pucker when sewed. For canvas, a longer stitch -- 6 to 9 mm -- seems to be recommended. Home sewing machines tend to sew shorter stitches, sometimes described in Stitches Per Inch (SPI).

As for width, assuming you mean the width of a zig-zag stitch, I really don't know. If I were to consider a zig-zag machine, I'd look for a multi-step zig-zag, that is the machine sews two, three or more stitches in one direction and then two, three or more stitches in the other direction. However, these are really expensive machines. Also, reportedly zig-zag machines don't sew a particularly straight stitch. The Pfaff 130 didn't.

Unless the machine were to be give-away, I'd only consider getting such a zig-zag machine for sail making or extensive sail repair.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Ok, so....what qualifies as a 'thick' material? I would presume Sunbrella, or multiple layers of it?


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## rikhall (Feb 7, 2008)

My Sailrite LZ-1 owes me nothing. It has long since paid for itself. Will happily sew through eight (8) layers of sunbrella!

It is also a great way to "pay it forward" by helping fellow boaters with projects. Some even "pay" up front (single malt is one of the nicest thank yous I got).

Rik


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## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

By thin, I meant up to knit cotton or light curtain fabric. Canvas and sails are thick. Denim is thick.


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## bwalker42 (Jul 11, 2003)

A walking foot is much harder to keep a straight line with. But it's necessary for sewing glass. 
I have sewn on both. I have a wonderful Juki I love. It is more for med fabrics. I can still sew leather, it's just harder. Sews Sunbrella perfectly. Fast machine.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

Below are pictures for selling earlier machines on craigslist.

Here is the maximum thickness I could sew with the Pfaff 130 home swing machine -- not bad actually but less than I've needed for some projects:

Pfaff130 :: P130Sample.jpg picture by Tejasdave - Photobucket

Here is the maximum with a Singer 111W155 industrial sewing machine, but without knee or pedal lift:

Singer111W :: 111W155Sample.jpg picture by Tejasdave - Photobucket

The Juki with knee lift would be much better, but I haven't tested the maximum.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Bought an old Pfaff 130 on Ebay, put an upgraded motor on it and a large wheel so I can use it even without power. Have probably $250 bucks into it. Will sew through 8 layers of 8 oz sailcloth with a #19 or #20 needle. It's portable and all steel (no cheap plastic gears to strip). Made a strong wooden case for it that fits right in a locker. Sewing by hand is the pits! Made a heavy trysail last year, completely recut a main recently. It had no problem with the thick corner patches or edges. I do wish it had multi-step stitch.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

bwalker42 said:


> A walking foot is much harder to keep a straight line with.


Would you please explain further. Do you think the difficulty is inherent in a walking-foot machine or is a visibility problem?

I haven't been aware of that problem in either case. As for visibility, when sewing a straight stitch with or without a walking-foot I typically gauge were the stitch line is going by looking at one or the other side of the foot or a mark on the bed relative to the fabric edge or a chalk-line on the fabric, rather than looking at the needle.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

I cannot thank all of you enough - I've learned enough to this point to feel much more confident in buying a machine, knowing what to look for. Sailors are SUCH amazing folk - so many different talents, and always willing to share with others.
Now don't let the praise distract anyone - keep talking sewing, I know there's much more I can learn here.
How about some suggested brands and models? For example, Singer and Kenmore, I see a lot of them for sale. And what machines are truly dogs? (with apologies to my pup!)
The items I need for my projects are zig zag (sail repair), reverse, adjustable stitch length, capable of handling sail repair and sunbrella. The next category of machines I'd like to know of would have a walking foot, and a needle feed.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

I discovered pretty quickly that you need a heavy-duty machine to work on sails. I quickly over-stressed a good quality Singer home machine when first getting into doing sail work. The plastic gears and general heftiness of home machines is just not up to the job. They make a lot of nice fancy stitches...but not for long on sail cloth. Older Pfaff, Singer, Adler type machines that were made before beancounters got control of quality are a good choice. Then, of course, you can spend a couple of thou and get an equally good new machine. I'm partial to my Pfaff because of its portability. A good sewing machine is not much good when your sail need repair if it's 1000 miles away.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I bought a Pfaff 139 from a charity shop for $30 and used it to keep sails and boat canvas going for 7 years when cruising on a very tight budget. 

WisH I still had it and if I did I WOULD BUY A WALKING FOOT for it.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

> of course, you can spend a couple of thou


AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Not gonna happen. TQA is talking more my requirements...still, the comments about older machines, metal gears, are making the choice easier....


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

I have a Sailrite LZ-1 and it is a good machine have made two covers and several sail repairs and mods. it has already payed for it self. the machine has no problem sewing through the tack reinforcements. the only problem is the foot does not open enough to fit the sail and the webbing for the tack attachment. also does not do the multi stitch zig zag that is best for sewing larger sails. arm is a bit short for large sail. really good machine for sunbrella covers and smaller sails.


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

Have a 40-yr-old Kenmore home machine (I think it was top-of-the-line at the time), all metal in excellent shape, and it's just not strong enough to go through multiple layers of Sunbrella, webbing, etc. (We did all our own upholstery, bimini, cockpit enclosure). Sprung for a Sailrite and like Rikhall says, it no longer owes us anything. It's strong enough to glide through 8-10 layers of fabric, lets you adjust the stitch length to accomodate fabric weight, and has the backstitch for tacking. (Not needing to do sail repair, we opted for the straight-stitch only)

I get the budget limitations, if you could find a used sailrite or one from your friend who's getting out of boating, jump at the opportunity. You could then use it to turn some coin (or at least some rum) from other sailors to offset the budget ding.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

Canuck Sailor,

You might want to post the size of sail / sail boat. My understanding is that the need for a zig-zag for sail making and sail repairs is to distribute the load, and the forces on sail size is a square function.

For an industrial machine, Consew zig-zag machines seem to be well respected. The 199 series includes one-step, two-step and three-step. I'd only buy a made in Japan Consew. Recently some Consew models are made in China and seem to lack a good reputation. I don't know if that includes some 199 series machines.

PM me and I'll send you contact information of two respected dealers who sell new, used and refurbished machines. I have no affiliation other as a customer.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

For me, the sewing itself seemed to quickly become fairly easy. What is difficult is:

Design
Measuring and patterning
Sequence of assembly
Fabric management
Techniques

The following books are worth consideration, especially the Casey Book:

The Complete Canvasworker's Guide by Jim Grant (Sailrite book)
Canvaswork & Sail Repair by Don Casey
The Big Book of Boat Canvas by Karen S. Lipe
Practical Boat Canvas Work by Lisa Carr

For sail making and sail repairs try The Sailmaker's Apprentice by Emiliano Martino that also includes a section on selecting a machine. Martino recommended zig-zag machines includes:

Singer 107W1 or 107W3
Pfaff 138
Bernina 217 (elsewhere I've seen the Bernina 217N recommended)

In addition to Sailrite for videos, the Marine Canvas Training Institute offers pricy training videos for both marine canvas and marine uphostery.

St. Petersburg FL Bimini Tops | Boat Top | Sprayhood | Canvas Marine


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

A major consideration which can allow you to go with a less powerful machine, is your choice of fabric...

I've become a big fan of Stamoid, virtually all of my covers and other canvaswork uses the stuff... FAR less work and easier for a domestic machine to deal with than Sunbrella, as it doesn't require hemming, and corners develop not nearly the same thickness... I think it's great stuff, the only Sunbrella on my boat any more is my mainsail cover, and a fender skirt, everything else - such as these hatch, dorade, chimney and handrail covers - are from Stamoid... Highly recommended...


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

There are several Pfaff 130's over on ebay, but none seem to come with the walking foot. Does anyone know where you can locate parts for these old machines? I've looked around quite a bit using google, but not finding much.


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## paul323 (Mar 13, 2010)

I used to use a Singer, purchased a Sailrite LSZ-1, the difference is night and day. Why?
1) Walking foot
2) Penetrating power
3) Thread tension
A lot of people (understandably) get tied up with penetrating power. Well, my old singer could penetrate multiple layers okay, so I thought I was good - the odd skipped stitch was no big deal. But discovered the threads were never pulled tight enough, so they frayed and fell apart after 6-9 months. The Sailrite can put a lot of tension on the threads. BTW, adding a "monster wheel" (heaver flywheel) really helped the Sailrite machine perform; the standard plastic one does not allow the machine to standout. 

Sailrite are also a great general sewing resource and have great customer service. The initial purchase price of that machine certainly hurts though!

DISCLAIMER: Not affiliated yada yada just like the company and their products. Never let me down.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

On choice of material such as Topgun and Stamoid that are waterproof and do not breath, although the material itself might be mold and mildew resistant, tightly enclosed projects should probably include vents.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

On Pfaff 130 parts, I had success with:

home - PFAFF 130,singer,sailrite,pfaff sewing machines,heavy duty sewing, sailrite sewing machines,sewing accessories,sewing feet,quilting,embroidery


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

TejasSailer said:


> On Pfaff 130 parts, I had success with:
> 
> home - PFAFF 130,singer,sailrite,pfaff sewing machines,heavy duty sewing, sailrite sewing machines,sewing accessories,sewing feet,quilting,embroidery


Ditto. That's where I got my upgrade parts from. Zeus is very knowledgeable and helpful. His heavy-duty motor is awesome. It is infinitely more powerful than the original motor. I was initially worried that the timing belt might break and be unobtainable because there seemed to be no "new old stock" left anywhere but I see that someone is now fabricating these for sale. These 130s were very popular machines so there are plenty of used parts available. It DOES take some experimenting to get the tension and timing set up just right but they were designed to be adjusted by the owner of the machine (before the Commodore, most people were actually capable of doing things themselves) There are a couple of service manuals on-line for free if you search around. I think there is one posted on the Yahoo Pfaff forum.


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## SeaQuinn (Jul 31, 2012)

I started trying to make handrail and winch covers....they were fine on my Older ken more home sewing machine. When I got to the sail cover.....it skipped stitches and needles broke. I tried a Viking...an older one that had a good reputation fora being a strong machine. The results were still not very good.
I ended up buying the sailrite zigzag with the extra heavy wheel. Huge difference and no more sewing problems with sunbrella or sail repairs. It was well worth the expense when you consider that sunbrella is not cheap either and if your project falls apart it ends up a lot of wasted effort. If I add up the cost of having a Bimini, dodger and sail cover made....I can more that justify the cost of the sailrite.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

For folks interested in a walking foot attachment, while I have no personal experience, a roller foot might be a low cost alternative.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

what's a roller foot?

Been busy the last week, I see tons more great info here and again, I thank all of you!


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

As has been discussed, a problem of with sewing multiple layers of fabric or fabric that is sticky such as vinyl, with a drop-feed (bottom-feed) machine is that the bottom layers are moved faster than the top layers. A walking-foot helps mitigate that problem and Needle-feed (top-feed) even more. The idea of a roller-foot is reduce friction from the foot on the top layer -- essentially a roller bearing to reduce friction. Roller-feet are available for both home and commercial machines. Here is a link for a commercial roller-foot for a commercial machine.

Singer Juki INDUSTRIAL SEWING SPK ROLLER FOOT #SPK3 for sale

There are also ways to reduce friction with face-down sticky materials and aid in fabric management as well. I have three slippery-top two-by-four foot fold-up tables from Costco that can be arrayed in various configurations to the left of and behind me. When sewing face-down sticky materials even the slippery-top tables are not sufficient. In that case, put the material on single sheets of newspaper that slide on the table-top. You can even sew through the newspaper, and the stitch line is a perfect tear-line for later removing the paper.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

oh oh...here comes my ignorance again....what do you mean by 'sticky' materials?


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

Apparently roller-feet are especially made for problem materials. However, a roller-foot could be helpful reducing top friction with all materials. Sticky in the post was a relative term, and vinyl and so called glass fit that category.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

If I was faced with the problem of the bottom material moving faster than the top I would 
try basting tape, (double sided sticky tape) between the layers. I beleive that would hold the layers together.


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

Or you stratigicly pin the pieces together... All this talk about a walking foot being "essential" is overrated...


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

Basting tape is quite useful. However, basting tape seems to gum-up the needle, especially on long runs, and long runs are when the top material lagging the bottom material becomes more of a problem.

Rather than using basting tape for long runs, T-pins or staples offset and parallel to the seam can sometimes work. Also, when using basting tape for long runs, gumming-up the needle can be mitigated with a thread oiler.

Normal sticky-iness basing tape doen't seem to stick all that well to Sunbrella. Sailrite has even sticky tape, but I don't have any experience with it.

Sailrite stocks seam tape

Here is a link to a roller I use to that helps basting tape stick. It is otherwise useful as well.

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I1EFKM/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i02


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

I have used basting tape (from Sailrite) on three major sailmaking projects with no problems with sticking. I don't know how you would do long seams/ long tape edges that need to be exact without it. I suppose with a long table, perfectly set up for sailmaking so the sail could feed flat and downhill and a long arm machine, it might be feasible but doing sails at home in a limited space would make doing it without tape impossible. You'd wear out your seam ripper. It's hard to get pins into multiple layers of sailcloth, impossible for many layers of corner patches. Sometimes regular staples work great along edges and are easy to pull out with a staple puller after sewing. I've seen no real necessity for a walking foot but would like to try one to see if it actually makes a difference. I do have an oiled pad, mounted on top of the machine that the thread runs through. The oil really seems to keep the procedure running smoothly and almost eliminates thread fraying at the needle. I have found a #20 needle is necessary to use the heavy 92# thread.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

smurphny said:


> I have used basting tape (from Sailrite) on three major sailmaking projects with no problems with sticking. I don't know how you would do long seams/ long tape edges that need to be exact without it. I suppose with a long table, perfectly set up for sailmaking so the sail could feed flat and downhill and a long arm machine, it might be feasible but doing sails at home in a limited space would make doing it without tape impossible. You'd wear out your seam ripper. It's hard to get pins into multiple layers of sailcloth, impossible for many layers of corner patches. Sometimes regular staples work great along edges and are easy to pull out with a regular staple puller after sewing. I've seen no real necessity for a walking foot but would like to try one to see if it actually makes a difference.


I have no experience with sailcloth and defer to those with experience.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Squooshing 15' of 8 oz. cloth under the short arm of a Pfaff 130 is a real challenge. Sometimes it's hard to even see where you're sewing amidst the mass of convoluted, twisted cloth, trying to feel for the foot switch buried in the cloth on the floor. I cut some 6" long pieces of 3" pvc, a 1/2" slot cut down the length. Quite a bit of cloth can be rolled up in these and wrestled under the arm. They work pretty well sometimes on long seams.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

smurphny said:


> Squooshing 15' of 8 oz. cloth under the short arm of a Pfaff 130 is a real challenge. Sometimes it's hard to even see where you're sewing amidst the mass of convoluted, twisted cloth, trying to feel for the foot switch buried in the cloth on the floor. I cut some 6" long pieces of 3" pvc, a 1/2" slot cut down the length. Quite a bit of cloth can be rolled up in these and wrestled under the arm. They work pretty well sometimes on long seams.


Good idea. I've tightly folded fabric and used pony clamps. I wonder if the two can be combined.

The legs of the clamps tend to get caught on the sewing table edge and impede the fabric feed. The round tubes might be less likely to snag on the edge of the table.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

"Squooshing"? Is that a technical sewing term? Perhaps someone could explain?


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Squoosh - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Squoosh eh

Think I got the PVC idea from _A Sailmaker's Apprentice _ which is a really good book on all things related to sewing sails.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Borrowed a friend's Husquavarna (computerized model) yesterday for some sail repairs. Went well, I was quite pleased. The actual sewing wasn't all that difficult - the challenges were in that there was very little room available to work, and my unfamiliarity with the machine in doing basic things such as picking up the bobbin thread.
The biggest revelation (for me) was that needle size made the biggest difference in ease of sewing. After breaking an 18, a couple of 16s, then a 14, I finally found a really beefy needle in the drawer - no more problems.


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## johnusher (Sep 24, 2012)

I'll suggest you Vintage Singer zig-zag sewing machine model 457. Because the machine have all features, that you want.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

That's useful to know - another machine to add to my list while I'm looking.


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