# largest boat I can sail alone



## soon2sail

Hi all, I'm new to sailing, so new in fact, I don't have a sailboat and actually have never been on a sailboat. I will not be deterred however and within the next year, I will be living aboard. My plan is to purchase the largest boat that I will be able to sail alone once I've spent a year or so learning to sail. I will want as much space as I can afford and will be seeking a boat in the 35 to 41' range. In research on this site, I came across a thread that mentioned a 41' Hardin Seawolf, researched it a bit, and fell in love. It looks like it would require a crew to sail though. Is that the case? Thanks in advance for your patient ear and advice.


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## tommays

In the past the big issue would be handling sails buy your self with modern furling systems that is no longer a problem 

If your single handing then you really want a boat built around a self tacking JIB becasue again it makes it easy for a solo sail


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## xort

You can sail a very large boat by yourself, 50' 60', not out of the question.

It's the docking, anchoring and picking up mooring balls that get real tricky alone.

Lots & lots of people sail very large boats double handed so no need for a 'crew'. The second person aboard makes a huge difference.

If you have no boat handling experience, you will have a VERY difficult time with a 41', especially alone.


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## soon2sail

*Thanks...*

Thanks all.


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## sailortjk1

I agree with xort, Sailing is not the issue, its all the other stuff.


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## bubb2

Sailsoon, if we are talking about a Hardin ketch Thats a lot of boat to single hand. They weigh 30,000 pounds. Thats a good thing for a comfortable motion when at sea, However docking alone is a whole other issue. Tacking that monster ought to be a treat also.

The ketch rig just adds more things to tend to (I know Cam will disagree). This would not be my first pick for a boat if I was going it alone. 

In fact, I would be looking for something 32 to 35 foot range and fractional rigged sloop.


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## soon2sail

you all rock! I think I may have found my tribe in the sailing community.


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## camaraderie

No...actually I don't disagree. For single handing I would be looking in the 35-38' range myself and looking at a simple sloop or cutter rig with everything rigged to the cockpit for furling and reefing. (And a reliable auto-pilot!).
Soon2...the choice of a boat will depend on your resources and your future intentions. So far we know you want a lot of room and that you will be singlehanding and like a salty looking vessel. Need to know more.


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## Jeff_H

As I read your post it really sounds like you are looking for two boats; one to learn to sail on and one to live on and long term cruise. Boats that are big enough to live on, especially if described as 'the biggest boat that I can single-hand', are usually too big to learn on if you intend to learn to sail well. 

Ideally, if you really intend to learn to sail well, (and not everybody cares whether they actually learn to be good sailors but that's another topic) then I suggest that you would be well served buying a small (23 to 30 foot max with 26-28 feet being more ideal), tiller steered, used but in good shape, responsive, fin keel-spade rudder, largish production run, ideally fractionally rigged, sloop. 

You can own a boat like that for a couple years, sail the living daylights out of her and sell her for pretty much what you have in her. You will be years and many dollars ahead of the game in terms of learning boat handling skills and what it takes to own and maintain a boat. The deductible for the repair costs for single accident with a boat big enough to live on could well exceed the entire cost of owning and learning on a smaller boat.

When it comes to the biggest single-handers that you can can handle, the traditional rule of thumbs were based on displacement and not length. Before the advent of modern deck hardware, and lower drag hull forms and rigs (easier to handle) the rule of thumb used to be a range 2 1/2 to 5-6 tons (long tons) per person. That would suggest that anything over about 11,000 lbs would start to press the convenient limit (roughly a 38 footer max). With modern gear and efficient rigs that number can be extended so that it is possible to handle a much bigger boat, but as boats get bigger they become dependant on higher levels of skill, lots of luck, and much better equipment than a new sailor is likely to have. 

Lastly, the Hardin's were a miserable boat to sail. To me they are a characture rather than good sailing boat. So while they may shiver your timbers, I suggest that spend as much time as you can, sailing as many boats as you can, of as many types as you can, and I suspect when you are done doing that you won't have to ask us what kind of boat you should buy and will know why the Hardin is probably not a great choice for whatever you want to do with a boat. 

I do not mean this as a put down in any way. We all had to start somewhere. I think that I completely understand where you are coming from. When I bought my first 'live aboard' in 1973 it was a totally inappropriate choice that simply captured my imagination. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## MarthaT

soon2sail said:


> you all rock! I think I may have found my tribe in the sailing community.


tis a great place


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## joeybkcmo

NEVER single hand, no one to bring you drinks


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## soon2sail

I like the way you think! Okay, I don't usually open up so quickly, but I'm among friends, right? My other half just a couple of weeks ago decided that 22 years was Lomg enough with her other half and now, though I'll miss her landlubber ways, am ready to move on to the water I've missed so much for these past 2 decades. I'm not trying to escape. I'm just ready to run off win my second bride--the sea. So, all of my new helpful friends, I"m thankful for advice received and of that yet to come. When not working, I plan on being a devoted student to the sail and sea. I want to sleep at night to the heart beat of sea. Then, after learning to sail along the shorelines and hrogh the bays of the Gulf of Mexico, I want to sail without boundary. I need a lot of space because I have avery cool dog, a lot of camera gear and just in case a like-minded beautiful woman wants to join me some day. I think that covers all it requiremts. Thanks again for the help.


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## blt2ski

zanshin on here was sailing a Jeanneau 43 by himself, not has a 49 deck salon model, he has had out a few times over the last 2-3 weeks IIRC. He might have had a bow thruster on the 43, don;t quote me tho. Not sure the whole specs of the 49 off the top of my head. But a quote on the Jeanneau-owners site, he mentioned that the extra 6' was more than he thought it would be manuvering. I'm sure he will do fine figureing out tho.

For me, a mid 30' boat is plenty for what I do. For others, something bigger is nicer. I would also stick to a sloop style, or a ketch/yawl that is self tending for the most part. hanse has a few newer models that have self tending jibs, as does Tarten, which may rufle some feathers on mentioning this brand, but the 3400 or the 3700CCR setup have self tending jibs. Either should work for your needs, the 3700 is probably the better of the two, and if you go back to a 98-04 models would be best. The 3400 is new wit int he last 3 yrs or so, again go used.

marty


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## camaraderie

Bummer...but I guess every cloud has a silver lining. So...if you want to cross oceans and only buy ONE boat...then you should be looking at bluewater boats in the 35-38' range. Check the sticky of bluewater boats here in posts #6 & 8 for some ideas then check yachtworld.com for some pictures and prices to help you begin to narrow things down. 
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/buyin...fshore-cruising-boat-list-january-2008-a.html

The upcoming Miami sailboat show might be a good place to get started if you're looking to kick things into high gear. Lots of new boats and sailing seminars as close proximity to all the brokerage boats in Miami & Ft. Lauderdale.
Strictly Sail

We're here when you need us.


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## soon2sail

Thanks again and sorry for the stupid typos. The rum & cokes are starting to wear off and I'm off that damn iphone.

Cheers


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## TSOJOURNER

Alain Colas sailed a 70m (210+ feet) 4 masted sailboat alone back years ago. Became "Phocea" later on. 
The sailor (and money for the necessary systems) is a greater limiting factor than the boat in my opinion.

Since you don't know how to sail, may I politely suggest buying a live aboard in a reasonable range (28-32 feet) for cheap-ish AND a go out everyday dinghy type. Sunfish, laser (tricky for beginner). Learn wind/handling on the small boat. 

In any case, no big fan of single handling sailing offshore passages as there is no way to properly comply with Colregs Rule 5. 
Eric


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## bljones

soon2sail said:


> I need a lot of space because I have avery cool dog, a lot of camera gear and just in case a like-minded beautiful woman wants to join me some day. I think that covers all it requiremts. Thanks again for the help.


Ah, what you are really looking for is a chick magnet. A boat that a) reinforces the image of a roguish, devil-may-care adventurer while b) being suitably comfortable and homey enough that a woman will want to voyage to far off lands with you.

Good advice to get a smaller live-aboard and a dinghy to learn the fine art of sailing.

What is your budget? Don't tell me, just get a figure in your head. Now, cut it in half. Take that new figure, and go shopping on yachtworld. See what you can buy. The rest of your budget will go into refitting, and upgrading your new home, with some left over for lessons and a charter trip. No point buying the boat if you can't sail it, can't afford the upkeep and the unexpected. and if you decide that sailing is not the dream you thought it would be, you have some cash in your pocket to pursue your next dream while you sell off this one.


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## soon2sail

Sage advice! I can't wait to get started.


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## WouldaShoulda

Even though my boat is only 27' I'd never single hand it.

I just hop on a Sunfish, Daysailor or Hobie when "I want to be alone!!"


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## MarthaT

soon2sail said:


> Sage advice! I can't wait to get started.


same here


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## captbillc

i single hand my nimble 30 express but i have in boom furling on the fully battened main & roller furling on the headsail ( genny or self tending jib ) i don't try to use the asymmetrical spinnakers when i am alone . an autopilot is essential to hold the bow into the wind when raising the main.


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## chucklesR

I single hand my Gemini 105Mc catamaran all the time. I'd never single handed either of my previous boats even after years of owning them and even though they were smaller. The summer I bought the Gemini I got bored and one day took it out solo for a 'down wind jib only run', wound up sailing circles around the bay until the Rum ran out.

Everything about singlehanding is (in no certain order) planning, practice, and boat setup and equipment. Of course you do need to know your boat and how to sail her. Mine is flat, stable and well balanced. I practiced by taking her out with crew and having them observe only while I did everything as if alone.
No need to have someone serve the drinks, the refridge is on the same level as, and only 4 steps from the helm.


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## soon2sail

How would the Gemini 105mc be for a live aboard?


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## chucklesR

You'd have to ask the dozens of folks that do live aboard, or the handful or so that are circumnavigating right now.

www.slapdash.com is a good example, or my personal favorite SV Footprint

Me and mine, we can't wait to find out.


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## sailingdog

Probably quite good, for two-to-three people, given the size of the boat, weight carrying capacity, and such.


soon2sail said:


> How would the Gemini 105mc be for a live aboard?


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## SimonV

14 months ago I would have said 36 feet is about the limit single handed, but now 47 is manageable if you plan and take you time. What I think is forgotten is while every thing is going well it is easy, but physically a bigger boat can be tough. Could you pull down a torn 135% cruising head sail, fold it and get it inside on your own. I probably should post a link but cut and past is easier, here is a little story of my first single handing of my new to me Ericson 39B:

Solo sail on the bay, started All wrong nice ending 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well today is, Sunday the 17 Feb 2008, BF piked it, said he was feeling a little under the weather. Not me I was going for a sailing, solo. Put everything away down below, a quick trip to the bins to get rid of the empties and rubbish. Double check everything and headed out of the Marina. Head into the wind with the engine just over idle giving 3 knots (no auto pilot), lock the wheel and sprint to the mast grab main halyard and winch away, nothing. ... Realise the main halyard is still connected to the topping lift. Rush back to the wheel, unlock and correct course, try to release halyard shackle, but it is still under tension. Correct course lock wheel. Rush to the mast release halyard run to wheel correct course, lock wheel, remove halyard and take to mast attach to main. Rush back to the wheel correct course lock wheel, stagger to mast and pull up main. Main stops at the second spreaders won’t go up, will come down. Stumble to wheel correct course and study situation, whilst sucking in large quantities of air. Realise main halyard is on the wrong side of the lazy jack line. Lock wheel run to mast drop the main, redo halyard hoist main.... main only gets to the first spreaders (feel heart attack building). Pull on halyard harder. Engine revs, drop main as the third reefing line is around the engine controls. run to wheel correct course, untangle reef line move it out of the way lock wheel stumble to mast start to raise main reef line now hooked on stanchion gate, lower main shake boom while shouting a bad word or two, line come free sail goes up, stagger to cockpit, wait for the heart attack. After calming down and now doing 2.5 knots with just the main up, and a nice main it is, I get passed by a bout with about 10 people on it. Got to go faster ,so now I have my breath back and the throbbing between my ears has stopped it’s time to let out the Genoa, release the furler sheet and pull on the Genoa sheet, perfect, no winch handle, it is still on the mast. Luff up into the wind, pull the sheet in tight then bring her back off the wind and all is good with the world. Who needs a winch handle? I did go up and get it latter. And that was the bad part; the rest of the day was a great solo day with lots of tacking and just playing around. In fact, I think I will do it all again tomorrow as I had the biggest smile on my face once things got sorted.


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## Jeff_H

While a Gemini 105 might be a reasonable live aboard or even a decent coastal cruiser, it would be near the bottom of the list of boats to learn to sail on. 

Back to the original post, single-handing requires a very unique skill set and a well set up boat. As has been noted, anecdotally there have been huge, purpose built boats that have been single-handed by skilled sailors. 

As you have probably noticed, there have been a lot of posts from folks who single-hand boats of a variety sizes and descriptions. The size boat that you personally can single-hand comfortably will be dependentg on your own skill levels, level of prudence and taste in boats. I myself routinely single-hand my 38 footer; sailing her in winds up to the mid-30 knot range, in and out of the slip by myself and routinely flying her sym. spinnakers. Its not all that hard once you have done it a while. But you are just starting out and should try to set reasonable expectations, do a dilligent 'apprenticeship' and then you will be able to answer these questions for yourself. 

Jeff


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## sahara

There is a substantial difference between the largest boat you _can_ sail alone, and the largest boat you _want to _sail alone.

How do you envision yourself sailing? For long passages out of sight of land, a single person can handle quite a large boat. Things usually happen slower, you're not worried about hittings things, like land.

If you are mostly gunkholing, with daysails thru sometimes narrow or congested areas, something smaller and quicker and easier to tack and handle might be more appropriate. I'm pretty confident that you would have plenty of room for a dog and camera gear on a 35', and the ground tackle and sails on the smaller boat will be lighter and easier to handle.

Some of the boats I see being frequently singlehanded in Maine are smaller schooners, with club footed jibs. Just push the tiller or turn the wheel to tack. I see these being sailed on and off anchor in some pretty small places, but by obviously experienced hands.

Think about the way you are likely to actually use the boat. Will light air performance be important? Light air upwind? Do you want something that is fun and easy to take for a daysail, or are room, salty looks and load carrying going to take precedence?

You sound like a pretty social person, do you have friends you want to take daysailing? Make sure the cockpit can hold them. Boats aimed for offshore, shorthanded cruising sometimes have pretty small cockpits, for a reason. Boats meant for coastal cruising will usually have a bigger cockpit, again, for a reason.

Our usual crew is three: Me, the bride, our young son. For us, a smaller 42', fairly narrow with long overhangs, works perfectly. I don't want any larger or smaller. If I were sailing alone, I would definitely have a smaller boat, probably 30-36', for coastal cruising. If I were going to go long range soloing, I would probably keep the 42'.

Good Luck!


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## TSOJOURNER

I'm not fond of bigger boats I like a smaller one that can be handled without too much stress, although this goes up with experience.


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## sailingdog

One other point--A boat that you might be able to sail and handle alone in 15 knots of wind, might not be a boat that you can manage in 20-30 knots of wind. So you don't want to get anything bigger than what you can safely handle when it starts getting nasty, and saying that you never go out when it gets nasty is not a good answer.... since Mother Nature has a really nasty streak at times.

Yes, there have been people that have single handed 60-70' boats, but these boats were generally heavily and expensively customized to make them possible to singlehand, and the sailors involved were not your average sailors in most cases. Dee Caffari, Ellen McArthur, etc., are not your typical sailors.


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## blt2ski

sailingdog said:


> Yes, there have been people that have single handed 60-70' boats, but these boats were generally heavily and expensively customized to make them possible to singlehand, and the sailors involved were not your average sailors in most cases. Dee Caffari, Ellen McArthur, etc., are not your typical sailors.


Besides way better looking than you, what other assets do these lady's have?

At the speed those boats go, it takes someone in pretty good shape, stamina, etc to operate on of them at 15-25+ knots of boat speed in 20-30'+ waves............ My 30'r is not too bad, even at 6 knots, or just shy of hull speed in 1-2' waves. Like everything tho, work up to the max starting at the low end of the easy spectrum, and eventually, probably an aircraft carrier by one self might not be too bad..........:laugher:laugher

Marty


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## sailingdog

blt2ski said:


> Besides way better looking than you, what other assets do these lady's have?
> 
> At the speed those boats go, it takes someone in pretty good shape, stamina, etc to operate on of them at 15-25+ knots of boat speed in 20-30'+ waves............


Yes, as I said they're not your average sailor.



> My 30'r is not too bad, even *at 6 knots,* or just shy of hull speed in 1-2' waves. Like everything tho, work up to the max starting at the low end of the easy spectrum, and eventually, probably an aircraft carrier by one self might not be too bad..........:laugher:laugher
> 
> Marty


Damn, your boat is really slow. Probably a good thing, since that way you can't out sail your brain.   :laugher Actually, that might be a bit fast for you... I forgot who I was talking to...


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## blt2ski

I can go as fast as I want, brain is empty! I try not to think, it pulls my one brain cell too hard, hurts etc..........

off to work, need to move a 1 ton tree that is 20' tall, 4'x4' diam root ball.....Nice semi little Japanese Maple!

marty


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## sailingdog

Is the ground frozen there??? If so, rotsa ruck...


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## thesnort

> I need a lot of space because I have avery cool dog


You probably want to get a cat for your dog.
I don't understand how any dog can be happy on a tilting monohull, although I'm sure there must be exceptions. They're probably not thrilled with a catamaran either, but at least you're fairly level and the dog can move about without acting like the drunken sailor.


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## GaryHLucas

This reminds me of a conversation I had often in the early days of PCs. Since I had a computer before PCs came out people would always ask me what to buy. I always told them just buy a damn computer and not worry about if it is the right one. You don't know enough yet to even tell the difference, and there is no substitute for experience!


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## thesnort

Get one of these! It will teach you about balance on a boat and the sail insignia will let the world know that you're a male.


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## blt2ski

Dog,

Only in the midwest to mid-upper east coast is the ground solid. It is actually rather warm to a point around here, except in the mts, then it was upper teens to low twentys today.

Tree move did not go as well as I hoped, but it did get moved.

marty


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## Dick Pluta

Most points have been made in earlier posts but here's my 2 cents.

First, a big boat is probably the worst way to learn. In many ways they are more forgiving and you won't notice things, like trim and crew placement, that would make a difference in a small boat. It's not for nothing that many of the great big boat sailors, like Buddy Melges, are graduates of small boat racing. In things like docking, of course, big really can really cause problems. You need some experience then.

Second, once you learn to sail, you can probably single hand a boat that's bigger than you want. I met a guy in Saugatuck, Michigan who was single handing a 62 footer. The real question is how big a boat do you need. Then that decision gets complicated and requires some knowledge. I sailed my Pearson 30 alone for many years with no difficulty, even before I bought an autopilot. It was the perfect boat for what I was doing, which was day sailing and weekending. For extended cruising it was just too small for me, although I did live aboard for a while. When my wife and I went cruising for part of every year it was too much like camping, so we bought a bigger boat, an Islander Freeport 41. With the ketch rig, she's no harder to sail than the Pearson. The sails are about the same size and we have roller furling on the jib. An electric windlass takes the strain out of handling the anchor. There's plenty of room and, to tell the truth, she's probably a bit too big. Complexity and maintenance increase exponentially with size. Dockage costs more. Bigger is better, up to a point. Then it's just an un-necessary expense.

Good luck and best regards,

Dick Pluta
AEGEA
Nassau, Bahamas


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## TSOJOURNER

For what it's worth: I've single handed the boss's 56 foot cutter. A LOT. That being said, it has electric winches, roller furling everything, bow thruster, etc. The only real problem is coming into a 'new' anchorage or dock. Then the pucker factor goes up.

My first rule of single handing? If you're not in the cabin, you have your SOSpenders on, and are attached to a jackline. That's all of the time, no matter the weather or conditions. Attach yourself solidly to the boat.


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