# Delta Anchor won't set.



## Mariner62 (Oct 30, 2012)

I'm just about to deep-six a 20kg (44lb) Delta anchor I bought less than 6 months ago. I bought it to replace the 20kg Danforth which was on the boat when I bought her. At the time I read a bunch of reviews and it seemed like the Delta was a good choice. 

Since then I've literally dragged the thing from Cadiz to Sardinia. It WILL NOT SET, even in the best anchoring sand and mud bottoms. It just does not dig. Every time I dive on it, it's lying on its side (always the same side).

Doesn't seem to matter whether I try to set it fast, slow, long scope, short scope whatever. 

On my other boat (similar size), I have a stainless 15kg Bruce, and it has always set, first time every time. So, I'm pretty confident it's not my technique.

The Delta was purchased from a chandlery in Cadiz, but is not a Lewmar branded product. I'm thinking it may just be a bad copy?

Has anyone ever experienced this kind of problem?

And, not wanting to start an argument , any suggestions on what to replace it with ? 

Cheers
Dean


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## Jaramaz (Aug 9, 2013)

I have a 15 kg Delta, Lewmar branded. Life-time garantuee, whatever that means. Anyhow, works most of the time. Seaweed difficult of course, but otherwise: always. 

I also have a 15 kg Bruce as a stern anchor. Works good. However, prior to the Delta I did buy a 15 kg buce copy - never worked. 

Conclusion: Original works, copies may work. 

Lewmar makes sure one notice it is a original: label glued to the anchor (took some 2-3 years until that peeled away), and considerable documentation. Thus, a "delta" without all these ... is not an original 

Suggest you get a real one. Nice to sleep well during night.

Best

/J


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Given the discussions over the past couple of years, I'm surprised you ended up with any sort of delta anchor instead of one of the "new generation" types (rocna/manson supreme/mantus). Apparently they are the bees knees. Until a new one comes along of course.


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## hopcar (Jul 6, 2013)

You got a bad copy. I love my little Delta. It sets every time in any bottom type I find around here. (Florida)

Last year a friend of mine was in the Bahamas when a hurricane went through. He was stern to in a slip. One of the outer pilings broke off and his stern was beating against the concrete dock. He got his Delta into another boat and managed to set it and use it to pull the boat off the dock. Later the wind went to 120 kts and the Delta held the boat off with no more damage. It was a good sand bottom and a combination chain / rope rode.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

PaulinVictoria said:


> Given the discussions over the past couple of years, I'm surprised you ended up with any sort of delta anchor instead of one of the "new generation" types (rocna/manson supreme/mantus). *Apparently they are the bees knees. * Until a new one comes along of course.


Yes, they are 



> Lessons Learned:
> 
> *Don't accept that this is as good as it gets.*
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Buy a Mantus. I did.

http://mantusanchors.com/


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## Frogwatch (Jan 22, 2011)

I have used my Delta for about 18 yrs and it always sets. I bought it because my Danforth dragged once and now I use the Delta as my primary anchor and it always works. Sand, grass, shell, rock, the Delta sets and stays set. So, now I have 3 anchors, a Delta, a Danforth and a smaller CQR. I normally use the Delta first and then either the Danforth or CQR.


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## Mariner62 (Oct 30, 2012)

Thanks to all for the feedback.

I think I'm convinced that I have a bad copy of a Delta. It will go to Davy Jones.

The question now is whether to replace with a Lewmar Delta (I hear the good things about the genuine Delta, but I'm still a bit hesitant due to this experience!). 

I will have a look at the new generation of fixed Spade anchors, and see if there is something in there which will fit without requiring bow roller modification. 

Fair sailing to all !


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## Mariner62 (Oct 30, 2012)

Thanks to all for the feedback.

I think I'm convinced that I have a bad copy of a Delta. It will go to Davy Jones.

The question now is whether to replace with a Lewmar Delta (I hear the good things about the genuine Delta, but I'm still a bit hesitant due to this experience!). 

I will have a look at the new generation of fixed Spade anchors, and see if there is something in there which will fit without requiring bow roller modification. 

Fair sailing to all !


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

I think you have a bad copy for sure. Another reason I'm fanatical about only using name brand anchors. 

I think the genuine delta is a good anchor by reputation, and though I have not used one, I would. Why not go back to a genuine bruce since you had good luck with it? You'd have to find a used one, which can be a hassle. The Lewmar copy is not as good in my opinion.

Also I have a mantus and have noticed a big improvement in short scope holding and in setting ability so far over my genuine bruce, though I never really had any real problem with the bruce either. 

MedSailor


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## Mariner62 (Oct 30, 2012)

MedSailor said:


> Why not go back to a genuine bruce since you had good luck with it? You'd have to find a used one, which can be a hassle. The Lewmar copy is not as good in my opinion.
> 
> Also I have a mantus and have noticed a big improvement in short scope holding and in setting ability so far over my genuine bruce, though I never really had any real problem with the bruce either.
> 
> MedSailor


I was indeed thinking about another Bruce. Is there a problem with buying them new? The one on my other boat came new with the boat in 2007. I'm not sure if its Lewmar branded, or something else.

Also, the Mantus does look interesting, and seems to have a reputation for digging well. Not sure if I will need to modify the boat though. (Not very interested in doing that !)


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Mariner62 said:


> I was indeed thinking about another Bruce. Is there a problem with buying them new? The one on my other boat came new with the boat in 2007. I'm not sure if its Lewmar branded, or something else.


'Genuine' Bruce anchors are no longer in production... Unless you can find one used, you'd have to resort to a copy, such as the Lewmar Claw... The Manson Ray would probably be my choice, if I were gonna go that route... The Bruce is still a good anchor (I have one on my bow as a secondary, and another at the stern), but it lacks the ultimate holding power of a comparably-sized 'New Generation' Spade/Rocna/Manson Supreme...



Mariner62 said:


> I will have a look at the new generation of fixed Spade anchors, and see if there is something in there which will fit without requiring bow roller modification.


the Spade is a terrific anchor, and you're in a part of the world where they're easy to obtain... I'd suggest going with a galvanized version rather than aluminum, however. The latter can sometimes lack the weight to get its large surface area to begin to penetrate a difficult bottom...

Still, the Spade is only a close second to the Manson Supreme, or a Rocna, in my experience...

Whatever you do, remember that Size Matters... I've got almost 80 pounds of anchors hanging off the bow of my little 30-footer, and I'd want every ounce of that if I were cruising the Med


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Just learning to use the rocna. Seems to like having the rode spooled out as you drift back and then allowed to settle awhile before you back down to check the set. Great anchor. Had trouble with oyster beds but then all anchors do. Have fortress up forward as a second. Still in the bag.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Rocna, all the way. But all the new gens are the same really.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Mariner62 said:


> I was indeed thinking about another Bruce. Is there a problem with buying them new? The one on my other boat came new with the boat in 2007. I'm not sure if its Lewmar branded, or something else.
> 
> Also, the Mantus does look interesting, and seems to have a reputation for digging well. Not sure if I will need to modify the boat though. (Not very interested in doing that !)


Lewmar put out a copy of the bruce anchor but they changed a lot of things like fluke and stock angles. The angles of lewmar claws (bruce copies) vary dependig on size as well, which is not something you see with any other anchor. the bruce group is no longer making small boat anchors, so you have to find a used one.

MedSailor


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Mariner62 said:


> It WILL NOT SET,
> Doesn't seem to matter whether I try to set it fast, slow, long scope, short scope whatever.
> 
> Dean


Hi Dean,

My Delta wont set if I dont put out enough scope. I know you said you have put out plenty, but your plenty and my plenty may disagree!
Give it a go and put out 5 times scope INCLUDING the measurement from water line to bow roller. thats another two meters in many boats.

I am currently parked* in 6 meters of water so the scope 'should' be 18 meters.
I have 40 meters out. *I can roll back on the bastard and it wont more an inch.

We have squalls through here every few days 35 knots or so. My Delta wont move at all.

So give it another try but this time put out LOTS of chain. Remember those areas you are anchoring in the Med can have some much deeper anchorages than other places you are used to. If you are anchoring in 20 meters of water you need to get a lot of chain on the ground before the angle of the dangle is what it needs to dig in. At 20 meters you may not have chain to go 5:1, but stick out what you have and see.

All the best

Mark


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Funnily enough the only anchor I've ever had that I really did not like was a Danforth, though that was very early on and technique and lack of chain may have been a stumbling block.

Right now we have a Bruce as main and Spade as backup. Bruce is rubbish in weed, have never deployed the Spade. (It's smaller than the Bruce and aluminium). I'm told btw that Spades are very good in weed. 

By choice I'd probably go Spade at an appropriate size with Fortress as backup but would be more than happy to substitute Rocna for the Spade.


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## MarioG (Sep 6, 2009)

Not sure you should have given up on the Danforth so quick just because you dragged once. 
I have 2 over size Danforth's but have stayed place using just 1 in crazy conditions. Yes I have dragged a few times but only in areas where nothing will hold, like the center of Back creek Annapolis. Had the boat heeling over 25* doing 360's in Hilton Head on the one anchor thinking there was no way I should be holding but it did while I enjoyed a wild ride. to make the 1st mate happy I put my dingy mushroom anchor 10' up the chain just for her piece of mind.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

PaulinVictoria said:


> Given the discussions over the past couple of years, I'm surprised you ended up with any sort of delta anchor instead of one of the "new generation" types (rocna/manson supreme/mantus). Apparently they are the bees knees. Until a new one comes along of course.


People have circled the globe hanging off CQR and Bruce anchors. They are just fine. The fact that there are better alternatives doesn't make them any worse than they ever were. It just means you can do better.

Delta anchors are better.

The new generation scoop anchors are much better yet. Rocna, Spade, Manson Supreme, Mantus, and Raya are outstanding anchors that make older designs pale by comparison.

It's nice to have an anchor that isn't based on something intended to drag ...


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

my thinking is that the type of anchor is less important than lots of factors ie size,amount of chain,amount of scope and proper setting technique,on some bottoms no anchor will hold!the tide change is the critical time,and to be candid during periods of extreme weather sound sleep is virtually impossible


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## Roger Long (May 28, 2012)

Mariner62 said:


> The question now is whether to replace with a Lewmar Delta.


I used a 22 lb Delta for six years from Halifax, NS to Coco, FL and was very happy with it. 32 foot sailboat, boat length of chain, and nylon rode. I only dragged in very soft bottoms.

However, I just got a 25 lb Mantus and it's a whole new world.  I don't have enough experience with it yet to say first hand that it has more holding power (although I'm pretty sure it does) but the way it sets is amazing.

With the Delta, there was always a routine in many bottoms of giving the rode a few jerks to coak the rather blunt point in and be sure it was started. This was followed by backing down and hanging around on deck a while watching shore marks when the wind or current was strong.

With the Mantus, the drill is to get the rode cleated before the boat takes up the slack because there will usually be a "twang" and hard snub if wind or current get the boat moving and you wouldn't want your fingers under the rode. Sometimes, it seems to be set before I even get all the chain on the bottom.

Watch, this is the anchor I'll finally drag ashore with someday because it's hard to remain proper vigilance when it grabs so well. I already find myself just letting it down and heading for the refreshments.

I would expect a Rocna to behave similarly.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Are we talking a fastset? I have a 9 lb one, no problems setting and holding my 6500lb 28 on deck sailboat. I also have a 7.5 kg bruce that holds well too. Now danforths or there ilk.....oh boy.......I have one for sail! I have a 2.2KG lewmar claw for setting race buoys, got tired of the danforths dragging trying to hole a blinken buoy!

Marty


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Mariner62 said:


> I'm just about to deep-six a 20kg (44lb) Delta anchor I bought less than 6 months ago. I bought it to replace the 20kg Danforth which was on the boat when I bought her. At the time I read a bunch of reviews and it seemed like the Delta was a good choice.
> 
> Since then I've literally dragged the thing from Cadiz to Sardinia. It WILL NOT SET, even in the best anchoring sand and mud bottoms. It just does not dig. Every time I dive on it, it's lying on its side (always the same side).
> 
> ...


I have sailed several boats with Lewmar Delta and it is an anchor very easy to set. If it is not a Lewmar it is not a Delta.

The problem with a Delta is not to set the anchor (very easy) but the holding power that is bigger than a Bruce but three times less than with a Rocna or a Spade.

Throw it away and buy a decent anchor. Best investment you can have in a boat. Mine come with a Lewmar delta. Sold it for 100 euros and bought a Spade that is several times more expensive. If a Delta fits your bow roller a Spade will fit too.

On the two last nights I was on anchor on a bay, taking refuge from the Meltemi with wind topping over 35K and I felt very happy with the decision to sell the Delta at least than half price and the 400 euros that cost me the Spade have already been recovered over many nights at anchor, feeling and being safe.

Regards

Paulo


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## jimrafford (Jan 7, 2011)

I had a 25 lb cqr on my last cs. Never dragged. Bought a 35 lb delta thinking it would be easier to launch. It was and then we started dragging. Anything over 20 kts and it dragged no matter how much chain I put out. Put the cqr back and gave the delta away. Will never buy one again. I have a mantus on the current boat.


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## Mariner62 (Oct 30, 2012)

Thanks so much to everyone for taking the time to share your experience and ideas.

I did spend some time today with 50+m of 10mm chain scope in ~5m deep, sandy bottom. I've got 1.5m from water to roller, so that's technically more than 7:1. Took some revs to get it moving with all that chain, but still dragging along on its left hand side. It's a dud !!

I will be looking for a 'new gen' anchor. I have to buy a new one, so it makes sense to go with the latest and greatest. The final choice is more likely to be a function of what I can get in the local chandleries. Currently in Northern Sardinia, so probably not the widest choice available.

Dean


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Mariner62 said:


> ...
> I will be looking for a 'new gen' anchor. I have to buy a new one, so it makes sense to go with the latest and greatest. The final choice is more likely to be a function of what I can get in the local chandleries. Currently in Northern Sardinia, so probably not the widest choice available.
> 
> Dean


If you cannot find a good one you can always ship one from Italy. I bought my Spade in Italy and there were two shops that would send it to my location:

Motomarine B2c R.L
[email protected]

and

Paride Nautica
[email protected]

Regards

Paulo


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

PCP said:


> If you cannot find a good one you can always ship one from Italy. I bought my Spade in Italy and there were two shops that would send it to my location:Regards Paulo


Paulo, out of interest what size Spade for your girl and Euros ????


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## Mariner62 (Oct 30, 2012)

PCP said:


> If you cannot find a good one you can always ship one from Italy.


Thanks Paulo, may have to do that.
In the meantime I've promoted the old Danforth back into service!


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

You're way over thinking this. It doesn't matter what side it's sitting on! It's the weight that matters. The shape is just for tradition. Just tie one end of rope off and pitch the anchor over the side. Not rocket science.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

northoceanbeach said:


> You're way over thinking this. It doesn't matter what side it's sitting on! It's the weight that matters. The shape is just for tradition. Just tie one end of rope off and pitch the anchor over the side. Not rocket science.


Says the person with a 3K lb/$ boat! There is a bit more to it than JUST size! ALtho on a smaller boat, it is easy to go with size of anchor a bit of chain....heck, a 3 lb caffe can filled with concrete and an eyebolt worked for my 8's pram when fishing!

marty


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Hey, this boat is 3500 lbs dripping wet. I fill my sailbag with sand and use that. Heck up in Canada they just tie to trees. Your mileage may vary.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

tdw said:


> Paulo, out of interest what size Spade for your girl and Euros ????


549 euros (23% VAT included)

20Kg but remember that my boat is light (8T for 12.5m)

Yes, it is an expensive anchor, almost the double of the Lewmar Delta but if we consider the price of the boat or just the price of the new sails I bought this year, it is not relevant.

I had already one on the Bavaria 36 ( never failed on me) and I can read the test results and the comparative holding power. Since on my boat I cannot have a anchor with an arch like the Mason or Rocna (gennaker pole) the choice was obvious, at least to me.

Regards

Paulo


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

PCP said:


> 549 euros (23% VAT included)
> 
> 20Kg but remember that my boat is light (8T for 12.5m)
> 
> ...


Thanks mate. That makes the Spade for me about three times the cost of a comparable Rocna plus shipping to Australia. We don't have the problem with fitting the Rocna so I'm thinking that if and when we change from Bruce we'll end up going Rocna. 
cheers
Andrew B


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## Ferretchaser (Jan 14, 2011)

Some folks shake their head when they see that 30kg bruce hanging of my bow roller as the boat is only 35' but last week we had some 25 to 30 kn winds blowing through here and I have a 50' house boat on my port side and two dinks rafted up to that and that day a 30 some foot pearson on my starboard side. We stayed putt while the 41' morgan next to us was going backwards on a 45 lbs CQR all be is very slowly. I do have 90 foot of chain out in 7' of water at low tide though. Works for me.

ATB

Michael


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

northoceanbeach said:


> You're way over thinking this. It doesn't matter what side it's sitting on! It's the weight that matters. The shape is just for tradition. Just tie one end of rope off and pitch the anchor over the side. Not rocket science.


Scary that this may be a real post and not tongue in cheek.....


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

northoceanbeach said:


> You're way over thinking this. It doesn't matter what side it's sitting on! It's the weight that matters. The shape is just for tradition. Just tie one end of rope off and pitch the anchor over the side. Not rocket science.


You may be kidding, but it isn't funny. Someone new to anchoring may take you seriously and put themselves and others at risk.


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## Ferretchaser (Jan 14, 2011)

i think we covered the " shot put anchoring " in an earlier thread .... "good" to see that someone took the advice ----- insert sarcastic emotion here ------


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## Mariner62 (Oct 30, 2012)

So ater stowing the Delta, I've been using the old Danforth for a week or so now. I can't believe how beautifully it sets and holds. It comes up (after a bit of a struggle sometimes) with great clouds of stuff which seems encouraging. 

I've read that one problem can be with a change of wind direction, but I'm just wondering what the other downsides are with this anchor.

They don't look very popular from observations of other boats in this region.

Dean


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Mariner62 said:


> I've read that one problem can be with a change of wind direction, but I'm just wondering what the other downsides are with this anchor.


Well, that's the big one, of course... Once set, they generally don't handle veering very well, probably more bent shanks on Danforth-type anchors than any other type...

I think they also don't handle a shorter scope as well as some others, like a Bruce or one of the New Gens... In a crowded place like the Med, that might often be an important consideration...


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Danforth and Fortress type anchors depend on shape and technology 100%. They really have no weight factor to help them out. I like the idea of having 40+ pounds down there along with good technology. Whether a new design like a Mantus (probably my next main anchor), a Bruce, or a CQR (main anchor now), I believe the sheer weight factor is important in being able to break into the bottom. A Danforth probably works just as well as the others 90% of the time but it's that one time that it just skips over the bottom, unable to grab, that presents the problem. When this happens and you're gaining backward momentum, the game is lost. I have NEVER had my 45kg CQR fail to set on the first attempt. Reliability is the operative word with anchors.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Smurphny, FWIW, I had trouble getting my 25 lb CQR-style anchor to bite in the Delaware River. Dropped it and quickly deployed 200' of scope (water was 15') so there wasn't any tension on the line. We drifted backward with the current, but kept moving for a while (well beyond where we should have). I finally used the engine to keep the line slack and let the anchor settle and set, and that seemed to do the trick. Once it set, it was fine until the tide changed. When the tide changed, we dragged for a bit (maybe 100') until it bit again and held through the entire tidal swing. Not a lot of wind, but decent current where we were.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

jimgo said:


> Smurphny, FWIW, I had trouble getting my 25 lb CQR-style anchor to bite in the Delaware River. Dropped it and quickly deployed 200' of scope (water was 15') so there wasn't any tension on the line. We drifted backward with the current, but kept moving for a while (well beyond where we should have). I finally used the engine to keep the line slack and let the anchor settle and set, and that seemed to do the trick. Once it set, it was fine until the tide changed. When the tide changed, we dragged for a bit (maybe 100') until it bit again and held through the entire tidal swing. Not a lot of wind, but decent current where we were.


What kind of bottom? Also, chain? I use 3/8" chain with the much heavier than spec. CQR. It's no fun hauling up all that weight by hand but it has always set quick and held through all sorts of variable winds and currents in different kinds of bottoms (although I can't remember using it in rocks). It has held well in grass when other boats slipped all around me.


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

I do love my Spade, the first one of the latest generation. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the ones from the latest generation though.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

jimgo said:


> Smurphny, FWIW, I had trouble getting my 25 lb CQR-style anchor to bite in the Delaware River. * Dropped it and quickly deployed 200' of scope (water was 15') so there wasn't any tension on the line.*


Well, that could have been a big part of your initial problem, right there... Not the best technique to setting a CQR, that anchor often seems to require quite a bit of 'fishing' to begin to get it to set... As mentioned in another thread somewhere, making a cup of tea, or opening a beer, is often the recommended second step of the process, after a CQR (or most any anchor, for that matter) first hits the bottom...



jimgo said:


> We drifted backward with the current, but kept moving for a while (well beyond where we should have). I finally used the engine to keep the line slack and let the anchor settle and set, and that seemed to do the trick. Once it set, it was fine until the tide changed. When the tide changed, we dragged for a bit (maybe 100') until it bit again and held through the entire tidal swing. Not a lot of wind, but decent current where we were.


That experience would definitely have me shopping for a new anchor 

After all, unless you happen to somehow be lying broadside to the flow, any current - even if fairly significant - is gonna be one of the most MODEST forces put on your ground tackle... Whatever current you saw that night, it would have been but a fraction of the load created by the windage of your boat in, say, 30 knots of wind... Swinging to a change of the current is certainly a common cause of eventual dragging, but once a boat is lying head to the 'new' direction of the flow, the forces in most cases really aren't very significant...

I know plenty of folks still swear by their CQRs, but in my experience there are far better all-around anchors out there now...


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

smurphny said:


> What kind of bottom? Also, chain? I use 3/8" chain with the much heavier than spec. CQR. *It's no fun hauling up all that weight by hand *but it has always set quick and held through all sorts of variable winds and currents in different kinds of bottoms (although I can't remember using it in rocks). It has held well in grass when other boats slipped all around me.


Do you use a chain stopper? It's like a poor man's windlass and it works by allowing the chain to only go through one way until released. Imagine a rope clutch, but for chain. You can also run the rope part of your rode to your mast winches and winch the puppy up until the chain reaches the mast. Usually it's a straight line from the bow roller to the main halyard/jib halyard winch. Depending on how much chain you have before your anchor, it might represent a major portion of your hauling.










I used a Fortress (danforth style) for quite a few months. One of it's negatives is that the chain, or a rock, can jam in the flukes making it unsetable until brought up again.

MedSailor


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