# Cost to finish a 58 ft sailboat (rig, sail and winsches)



## andreasmehlin (Aug 5, 2006)

Have found a Bruce Roberts 58 that not have been riged (just been used as a motorboat/houseboat).

How much would you estimate rig, sail, and winsches would cost? (standard equipped)

Regards
Andreas


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## Gene T (May 23, 2006)

$100,000 is my guess, lots of bits and pieces. Might find some used gear for half that.


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## andreasmehlin (Aug 5, 2006)

A bit more than I thought...

How do you calculate it?

Rig? (head mast and roller furling?)
Sail?
Winsches? (how many is necessary?)

Is it easy to find used stuff in these sizes?

Regards
Andreas


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Well, even a used mast and the standing rigging for a boat that size is going to be fairly expensive. Then add the cost of the roller furling, running rigging and the sails, and you're looking at quite a bit of money. 

That doesn't even touch the maintenance and repairs to the unused sailing gear on the boat, like the winches, which are likely to be in really bad shape, if they've been unused the whole time. Gear tends to do better if it is used and maintained, rather than if it is just sitting. If the winches weren't added to the boat when it was built, the installation will be fairly expensive, as the holes and backing for mounting the winches has to be setup properly. 

Then you also have any other general repairs and upgrades to the boat. 

BTW, winches, rigging and such on a boat that large is going to be very expensive, even used.


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

one used harken 53 is 1800.00


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## andreasmehlin (Aug 5, 2006)

I see.

I just did a fast calulation that I maybe could make it under $60k. But you think it will be hard to make? 

I calculated

$10k-15k sails
$15k winches
$30k rig

But I might be over optimistic


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

That's very optimistic...and doesn't include the 10-15% of the purchase price most people will spend repairing, upgrading and re-fitting the boat.

You might also have to consider how much it will cost to dock this beast. Dock space for a 60' boat is pretty expensive, and a bit tough to find at a reasonable price. A lot of places will not be able to haul this boat, should you need to work on the bottom. Getting it painted is also something that you might need to do, and will be fairly expensive.

I don't want to discourage you from owning a boat, but I do want you to go into buying this boat with a pretty good idea of what the costs involved are going to be...and not get blindsided by those costs. _

There are plenty of boat owners, who buy more boat than they can really afford, suffer along for a while and then take a massive loss trying to unload a boat they never really got a chance to enjoy. _


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## andreasmehlin (Aug 5, 2006)

Im looking for an unfinished boat I can finish myself. usually these boat havnt been out on the sea very much. 

Have also a Bruce Roberts 53 in mind. Also this is unfininshed - but opposit - unfinished inside, finished outside. But lots of equipment included. I like the size better here. Don´t want to go too big. Rather not over 50 ft but now I have found these vessels here in Sweden and are easy to transport (and inspect).
How many winsches do you estimate to need on a 53 ft and what size?

I think I will afford owning the boat with that aspect I don´t have many else expenses. Im (or we are) saving money for a world cruise.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Not sure what masts and furlers cost but I am right now the process of redoing my standing rigging:

If you break convention and rig it with galvanized aircraft cable, you can save a lot. The cost to replace my entire standing rigging, including the tools, hardware, books/learning, and maintenance goop for a heavy duty 40' ketch rig, came to around $400.

I recommend some intense research-- shop around (places like Fehr Bros or Erigging) and piece it all together to see what it will cost. Those sta-lok fittings get awful pricy (or you can splice ends yourself and still have a rig just as strong)
Book recommendation: the Complete rigger's apprentice, by Brion Toss. Lots of people think he's a heretic but the engineering behind his stuff is completely sound, especially as it pertains to galvanized materials in rigging.

You could make your mast out of *gasp* wood! Do it yourself, the old way, it worked for centuries. Book recommendation: Bueller's Backyard Boat Building. Just as good for outfitting/refitting a boat as for building one.

Sails, go with Rolly Tasker. Best prices and great products. A new main and mizzen (40 foot boat) will only set me back $1800 delivered. Years ago I had a new Rolly Tasker mainsail made for my 25 footer, and I can vouch for their quality. Top-notch stuff.

In the end, you may be able to make it work just fine for around $10,000. Won't be as pretty, but it will do what you need it to do. Me, personally, I respect the ugly boats that have been everywhere for a few bucks, more than the million-dollar sparkly ones that are too afraid to be sailed.

A few good solid months of planning will save you a lot of time, money, and future effort. I devoted a lot of time this winter to figuring how we would refit our boat (after living aboard for several years, we had a lot of ideas on what to improve and what needed work).

-JB


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

PS-- 

If I had an open canvas like you do, I'd build an unstayed or partially-stayed junk-rig. Those are cool! And much much MUCH cheaper.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I am going through the same process right now with a 41 foot Ketch Rig boat I recently purchased. Here is what I have found:
New Main Mast: $9000 (My mizzen mast and booms are serviceable). 
New Sails: $8000
New Rigging: $3000


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

So, surfesq is up to $20,000 and hasn't bought winches either. 

And his boat is considerably smaller than the one in question...half the size or so...remember a boat's displacement grows almost exponentially to the length. A 30' boat is much smaller than a 60' boat, in both beam, length and in many cases depth.... The 58' boat is probably twice the size of a 41' boat, with a correspondingly larger mast, sails, rigging, and winches. Also, his mast will be even smaller, as SeaWolf is a ketch, not a sloop.


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## Sasha_V (Feb 28, 2004)

Or, we can admit the obvious and point out that since it is a home-built Bruce Roberts design, that it will mostly have the sailing characteristics of a house brick wrapped in a half inflated water-wing regardless of what he does.

At that point you can buy an ex telegraph or tapered steel light pole for the mast, use second hand sails and go with three or at most four clunky, non ST winches for about $1500 and still get what is ostensibly a sailboat.

I looked at four unfinished Bruce Roberts hulls when we were looking for our boat, unfinished is kind of their natural state....And what I know now tells me that I would not build one form scratch as his designs suck and it is a huge waste of my efforts, tools and materials to build what is effectively a very large lawn ornament...And I would not take on someone else's unfinished project because they have already demonstarted they could not plan to completion and there is about a mile and bit of their welding work keeping me alive and afloat. Thanks, but I would rather it were my own.

Sasha


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Sasha_V said:


> *they have already demonstarted they could not plan to completion and there is about a mile and bit of their welding work keeping me alive and afloat. *


Good point...I'd rather trust my own work, than that of someone who has proven they can't finish the job.


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## captnnero (Jul 19, 2006)

*resale*

Something else to consider along the thoughts just expressed about sailing performance (or lack thereof) in this case is resale. Custom and/or DIY boats are at the very least challenging to sell even when complete. Whenever spending that much money you need to plan to be able to get out cleanly in the near future (a year or two) as you never know what your circumstances will be around the corner.

The bottom line is be skeptical of these mondo project boats regardless of the price. Unless you are in the trade and really know what you are getting into, you are likely to bite off more than you can chew.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

The Roberts 58 is a family of designs, with some big variations in materials and deck layout. You have not said how finished this boat is and which configuration. In its most sailing oriented version, I think that this is one of Roberts better designs, but the full blown sailing version has something like 7 feet of draft and 20,000 lbs or so of ballast. If the boat was intentionally only finished as a powerboat, there is a good chance that the ballast keel and all of its internal structure is missing. If built as a power boat, or even the motor sailor version, it would have a smaller rudder and the full support structure for the rudder might also be absent. Similarly, all of the chainplates and internal support framing for the chainplates might also be missing, as would the deck hardware and its structure as well. 

While these are not the best sailing boats out there, my sense is that they are reasonable sailors if built as a sailboat with a full depth and fully ballasted keel. 58 footers are big boats, too big for half-assed hardware and rigs. This is an over 60,000 lb boat. When something goes wrong on boats that big, people get badly hurt. Rigging a boat this size no joke. Untempered aluminum light poles and galvanized steel rigging won't save enough to make the risk worth taking. 

For the most parts Junk rigs work best on smaller boats, and boats that are specifically designed for a junk rig and a junk rig on a boat this size won't save much money either. A freestanding rig this big will add a lot of cost with zero advantage on a boat this heavy. While the masts for ajunk rig may be a little cheaper, and there is no standing rigging to speak of, there is vastly more sail cloth, vastly more labor to build a standing lug (the actual rig type employed on so-called junk rigs) and vastly more running rigging, several extra spars, and vastly more blocks, and perhaps a few less winches than would be found on the rig the boat was designed to have. Offsetting any savings in the mast and rigging, is the sheer amount of expense involved in building the internal structure to take the extremely high loads at the deck and keel that is exerted by a freestanding spar. The load at the deck is literally several times the overall loading on the sail and rigging, and that load must be absorbed through the cabin structure which is normally the waekest structure on a boat this size. Not a very good idea at all. 

Wood spars are fine as long as you use quality materials so that you do not get too much weight aloft, but the last time that I ran a cost comparason between a properly built wooden spar and an aluminum spar, the aluminum was a real bargain. 

Then there is the whole winches thing. I know you can get by with buying big hand cranked winches but frankly, most boats this size rely on electrically powered winches or else coffee grinders. It is pretty unlikely that you will find used winches for a vessel this size. 

I think that who ever estimated $100,000 is probably the closest to the real cost to rig a boat like this, if you do all of the labor involved, including welding your own fittings and doing your own paint and rigging work, but my deep sense is that would be a real bargain if you could do it for that. 

When I worked for a yacht designer and when my Mother was importning yachts from taiwan, we generally figured that the rigging and sails were roughly 15% to 25% of the cost of building a sailboat. If you figure that a newish 58 footer is one million to 1.5 million, that would say that you should expect the rig to cost somewhere between $150,000 and $225,000 and that assumes that you have a ballast keel, and rigging attachment structure. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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