# Owner experiences with Westsail 32 sailing performance up wind



## cortez5 (Nov 8, 2009)

Hi everybody

I've been browsing this site for a while but have never posted. I'm currently visiting Australia, but hopefully planning to buy a Westsail 32 when I get back home to Canada. I have already searched around for comments regarding their performance, but was hoping for some more input from people that have sailed Westsail yachts along with other comparable models.

Just how bad are they going up wind?

Do they really "hobby horse" all the time when doing so?

Can they make good progress upwind without the motor running?

Would you consider a Westsail 32 to be a "motor-sailor"?

I don't want to stir up controversy or insult any owners with these questions. No disrespect is intended. It would just be great to hear more real world accounts.

I'm aware of all the great things a Westsail can offer, I just don't want to waste my time looking at them if they can't sail up wind.

Kind regards

Tom


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Its been 30 yrs since I have been on one, but it did go up wind......granted I only was on one in puget sound and lake washington.......

But I do recall one opening day here in seattle about 77 or 78 when it blew 40-60 knots, we had a single reef and staysail up, and was doing 6 knots in 3-5' seas. 

My question would be, where to do you plan to sail? if local, ie local here in pugetsound up to BC where I am at, find a fin keel boat of decent quality and you will probably be happier. But if sailing the world, then it would work well, if you want a boat that needs a lot of wind to move it! IIRC the Westsail has more lead in it than my 30' Jeanneau weighs empty! ie about 6500 lbs.

Marty


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

They are better off the wind or downwind from what I understand. The design is good; but many of these hulls were "kit" boats so build quality is variable. That aside (assuming the boat you are considering was well built); many people who own them are happy with the boat and defend the somewhat poor sailing performance with the "seaworthieness" of the design.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

A fellow who cruised a CS36T for five years, and authored a book about his experiences _Travels with Yeti_ discusses in a chapter his cruising boat selection process. FWIW, he mentions that he specifically eliminated the W32 fromn consideration due his experience with inability of the design to sail to windward in a rough sea..such a weakness being potentially fatal off a lee shore...

Now not my opinion...just read the book if interested.


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## cortez5 (Nov 8, 2009)

The kit boat thing doesn't worry me in the slightest. It seems easy enough to find kit boats of great quality, or well maintained factory ones. I'll be sailing coastal mostly with plans to set off for far away places.

Sailingfool: Now, that's one of the issues that nags at me. A sailboat that can't sail well enough to save itself.

Almost every Westsail owner seems really happy with their choice. I often wonder if they've just come to terms with the negative aspects of the boats, and prefer to not worry about it. Do these people motor-sail often? The conversation seems to go like this: "How do they sail in to the wind?".. Owner: "they're very seaworthy and I can fit my whole apartment inside. Have you heard of Satori?".

I've often heard on forums that they sail really well in to the wind with the engine just a notch over idle. However, *that's not sailing. *

I know I can take one for a sea trial, but that doesn't give nearly enough time to get a real feel for the boat. I just don't want to make a bad choice and end up with a boat that sails poorly.

I love these Westsails, especially their looks. I'm conflicted, and would love to hear more from owners who sail regularly (especially ones with experience on other boats).

Thanks for the info so far. 

Tom


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## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

Doug's 1998 trip

Quote

"The Boat...

Ah yes, there is that issue about the windward performance (or the
lack there-of) in my boat. Spirit has been a good boat for me.
I wanted a boat building project, and she filled that need, for
as many years and as many thousand dollar bills as I wished. I
wanted a beautiful, traditional looking boat, and she filled that
need. I wanted a strong, roomy liveaboard boat, and she filled
that need. But, I feel a need to try to do less motoring and
more sailing, and I think the answer to that may be a higher
performance sailboat."

The boat in the story is W28. It is not W32, however they are identical in all aspects but size.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

Tom - You might try googling W32 blogs and asking owners directly. I've personally read several cruising blogs about W32's over the last couple of years. Additionally, try searching for "Westsail" on Sailblogs.com and Blogspot.com.


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## cortez5 (Nov 8, 2009)

I've done as much reading on the subject as possible. Bottom-line appears to be: They're down-wind boats, or motor-sailors, depending how harsh you want to be. From the owners I've talked to, it sounds like even they've accepted the fact that they'll be motoring in more situations than other boats. 

How well would they survive purely sailing, without an engine? perhaps not so well (although at least it might take out some weight).

Despite how much I like them, I'll be looking for something that can sail better. They're a floating apartment when it comes to displacement per foot, so I knew it was all too good to be true. Sounds like they'd be great for living at anchor, and they must be good for the trades because there's tons of people out there on them. 

Hope I'm on the right track here. I'm thinking modified full-keel, or partial full is a better choice, and a bit less displacement. More of an all-rounder, but still seaworthy. W32 is out. Any suggestions guys?


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## Boatsmith (May 3, 2009)

There's a reason there called wet snails. They are pretty, they are stoutly built, they will hold lots of gear, they don't bounce around alot when it blows. They don't sail to windward very well. David


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

cortez5 said:


> Any suggestions guys?


If you still want classic style, solid construction and bluewater capability with better sailing ability, you might consider the following:

Baba/Tashiba/Panda: These Perry designs feature a cutaway forefoot/modified fullkeel but still maintan a salty look. You'll find them from 30' to 40'.

Tayana 37: Ditto the above remarks.

Pacific Seacraft Mariah: Quite similar to the W32, though I've read they sail a bit better.

PSC 34: A nice sailor with plenty of bluewater prowess, though I find them a bit small down below because of the longish bow overhang and relatively narrow beam.

Island Packet 31: Not a racer by any stretch, but still probably goes to windward a bit better than the W32.

Hans Christian 33t: A favorite of mine because of the very salty, double-ender look and great cabin layout featuring a pullman berth. However, HC33's are pricey.

Hallberg-Rassy Rasmus: Nice twin-cabin design, though a bit dated nowadays.

Cabo Rico Tiburon 36: Nice salty boat with scroll boards and a clipper bow. Most I've seen have been quite rundown, however.

Willie 8-ton: Very similar to the W32 and may not be a better sailer. I like what I've read and seen, but admitedly that is very little.

I can go on and on because I have a 30-something-foot salty bluewater cruiser fetish. Let us know if you need more ideas!


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

kwaltersmi said:


> I can go on and on because I have a 30-something-foot salty bluewater cruiser fetish. Let us know if you need more ideas!


There's a support group for that. Unfortunately, they never meet cuz they are down at the docks looking at boats.:laugher If you hear about one for 30-something-foot Scandinavian bluewater cruiser fetishists ... pass it along, willya?


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## GBurton (Jun 26, 2007)

cortez5 said:


> I've done as much reading on the subject as possible. Bottom-line appears to be: They're down-wind boats, or motor-sailors, depending how harsh you want to be. From the owners I've talked to, it sounds like even they've accepted the fact that they'll be motoring in more situations than other boats.
> 
> How well would they survive purely sailing, without an engine? perhaps not so well (although at least it might take out some weight).
> 
> ...


Be aware that it is a popular pastime to denigrate these boats - 
If you have done any research you will find that the W32 is surprisingly fast if sailed by someone who actually knows how to sail.
Ditto the "cannot sail itself off a lee shore" line.
The Colin Archer rescue boat is the grandfather of the W32 and those boats were operated off lee shores without engines for many many years. 
Atkin refined the design slightly for the W32 and Ingrid 38

Do yourself a favor and read a bit more.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

The W32 (and 'most' cutters) are difficult boats to sail upwind because of 2 problems:
1. the bow angle (?) .... a full powerful bow, rather than a 'sharp' bow. 
2. The 'INTERPLAY' of tension between the headstay and forestay (where the stay'sl 'rides') -- probably the 'chief' cause of why cutters 'cant' point. 

For beating with a cutter with a staysail 'under' a jib, the staysl doesnt need much forestay tension as the 'staysail' will not be visibly be 'drawing' (but will still serve as an important aerodynamic function in this 'slack' state). 

Most cutters are maintained by 'sloop-heads', usually with each the headstay/forestay combo at 15% of rig tension (for 'normal' conditions). Unfortunately and for the sake of argument, the sail areas between the headsail and the staysail are quite different and the 'load' from the staysail into the wires when beating is quite small ....... this by additive force reactions REDUCES the tension in the headstay (the forestay receives MORE tension), the headsail then operates with a very SAGGED (to leeward) luff .... and the boat doesnt/wont point, lays-over on her side and slows down (in comparison to a sloop). 
So, you 'can' make a cutter-rig 'point' like a banshee .... simply REDUCE the forestay tension (so most of the backstay, etc. tension, etc.) so that the headstay is operating with sufficient wire tension ---------- so that the LUFF CURVE (luff hollow) that was CUT into the headsail MATCHES the the normal leeward SAG in the headstay. Youll gain 10+ or more degrees of 'point to weather' if you do this. 

On 'any' boat (sloop, ketch or cutter) the operating **SAG to leeward** that a stay takes MUST match the 'luff curve' (luff hollow) that was cut into the sail ..... or the boat simply wont 'point'. Cutters, when beating and because of the two stays (and the 'interplay' of sharing tensions) at the head, always/usually have the head/fore stay tensions 'mismatched' to the headsails .... unless one slacks down on the forestay tension (and the headstay increases tension as a result) and then also precisely matches the 'stay sag' to each head/staysail's luff shape (hollow). 

A WS32, (or any true cutter) set up with 15% tension (15% tension is the benchmark tension that determines the expected 'curve' cut into the luff of 'plain vanilla' sails when sailing at 15kts of windstrength) will have its forestay too tight and its headstay too loose ... because the different forces imparted from the different Sail areas and the **different** aerodynamic forces between the TWO sails. 

Simple speak: If you want a cutter to 'point' loosen the forestay tension so that most of the (combined) tension transfers to the headstay .... and the luff shape of the headsail MATCHES the normal leeward sag in the headstay. .... dont forget to readjust the tensions when not beating.


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## GBurton (Jun 26, 2007)

This is an old but interesting discussion on double enders from the woodenboat forum. The Westsail 32 is basically an Eric built in glass with a different cabin trunk and rig

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11748


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

kwaltersmi said:


> If you still want classic style, solid construction and bluewater capability with better sailing ability, you might consider the following:
> 
> Baba/Tashiba/Panda: These Perry designs feature a cutaway forefoot/modified fullkeel but still maintan a salty look. You'll find them from 30' to 40'.
> 
> ...


How about an S&S 34? This is an extremely popular blue water boat. Although I haven't sailed on this particular model, S&S designed boats generally go great to wind. Mine does. You might also want to consider the Tartan 37, which is also S&S designed, I believe.


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## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

I've sailed a bit on a Westsail 32 back in the 70's when they were all the rage. They sail well and if you encounter bad weather - that's the boat to be on. The sailboat in the book and movie The Perfect Storm, was a W32., they abandoned her at sea, in the storm and later they found her washed up on a lee shore with little or no damage and several of the captains pocket items that he mistakenly left on one of the cockpit seats were still on the seat when the boat was found.
Also, Frenec Mate, author of "Best Boats to Buy or Build" and "From a Bare Hull", said years ago: those who say the Westsail 32 doesn't sail well have either; never sailed one, or sailed it badly.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

johnshasteen said:


> The sailboat in the book and movie The Perfect Storm, was a W32., they abandoned her at sea, in the storm and later they found her washed up on a lee shore with little or no damage and several of the captains pocket items that he mistakenly left on one of the cockpit seats were still on the seat when the boat was found.
> .


Yes, That was The Satori. Washed up in Assateague, Va. No actual Damage to the boat from the storm...only from the grounding. I think she's still sailing somewhere in Texas ( new owner)

Johnshateen.....I loved my Bristol 29.9 you have a terrific boat!

Tempest..


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## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

Tempest said:


> Yes, That was The Satori. Washed up in Assateague, Va. No actual Damage to the boat from the storm...only from the grounding. I think she's still sailing somewhere in Texas ( new owner)
> 
> Johnshateen.....I loved my Bristol 29.9 you have a terrific boat!
> 
> Tempest..


Yes, the Satori was one helluva a boat. When the owner reclaimed her, he sailed her back around to a marina along the Texas coast and put her up for sale. 
Why did you get rid of your B29.9? We've had Paloma many, many years and love her - she's taken us through two Force 10 storms at sea and has endured many named storms/hurricanes in her slip. We call her our Bluewater Warrior Princess.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

johnshasteen said:


> Why did you get rid of your B29.9? We've had Paloma many, many years and love her - she's taken us through two Force 10 storms at sea and has endured many named storms/hurricanes in her slip. We call her our Bluewater Warrior Princess.


Johnshateen...I love to hear that! I also had great confidence in that boat! 
Good for Paloma!!

I rode out Hugo in mine, albeit the tail end. I wonder why I sold her myself sometimes. Someone made me a good offer on her, and eventually took her to florida. I own a Sabre 34 now that I've been sailing for the last 15 years.
I miss the little dinette that I had on my bristol...but Tempest is a great boat!

Apologies to the OP for getting off track.

Here's a few Westsail Links

WESTSAIL - CRUISING BOATS FOR SALE
WESTSAIL - WORLD CRUISER YACHT CO.

There's a link to a Westsail's owners Assoc.

Tempest


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## hshannon (Jun 26, 2006)

John:

We have a B29.9 and have enjoyed it for thirteen seasons. This fall was the first time we had to hide the boat from a hurricane, which fortunately was only a mild tropical storm by the time it got to Newburyport MA. Nevertheless it did wreak havoc down at the yacht club and my hurricane hole, in a river with a strong current, was less than ideal. 
I’m looking at another spot that might be a better hiding place but it would involve fully grounding, or near fully grounding, the boat in the mud at low tide. The furthest I’ve ever had the boat over is about 45 degrees, while being pulled off a sandbar. At that time, the rail was under water, but the boat was still afloat. It wasn’t all the way down. 

I’m looking to know if you have ever fully grounded your boat and how well it does coming back up. Some boats fill before they float, which would be a disaster. However, if the boat lies over well and comes back up without filling, the spot I’m looking at may be suitable. 

…if we get another hurricane here. They are rare in these parts. 

Homer Shannon
Cinderella, Bristol 29.9 hull #46
Windham NH / American Yacht Club, Newburyport MA


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

Not sure if your 29.9 is the same , but all 3 lazarettes in my 31.1's cockpit are open to the bilge. So if they were to open the boat could downflood through those, very quickly. I now keep the padlocks on the latches when sailing, not locked. 

The dorades seem like another way to flood.


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## hshannon (Jun 26, 2006)

*Bristol Grounding*

All good points. The B29.9 has two out of three lockers that go to the bilge; these would have to be shut and latched. The dorades can be taken off and there are blanks that can be placed in the openings to keep them closed.

However, if the boat has issues with these opening when righting from a grounding, I don't think I would want to do it deliberately.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

"The dorades can be taken off and there are blanks that can be placed in the openings to keep them closed. "

Ahhh so that's what those are for! I've been wondering what the big chromed threaded discs were for.

My lazarette hatches appear to have been lined with some self-adhesive foam strip to make them seal better.


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