# Living and cruising aboard a 30-33ft Allied



## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

My wife and I considering the live aboard lifestyle. We were looking at 40ft boats but after doing some research and reading here and other places it seems easier and cheaper to do it on a 30-33 ft. We want to eventually set sail to the med. Can I get some in put on this style and size of boat. From reading they seem seaworthly but how about the accomodations? how about from a maintenance stand point? 30-33Ft that much cheaper than 40ft to maintain? It would seem so from reading but how much cheaper?

BTW yes this is my first post, i have been lurkin and learnin for sometime but i am thinking more and more about the "go small, go now" attitude i see so often here.

thanks for any and all help


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

We know people who cruise on boats 28 ft to 65 ft. But for living and crossing oceans you need to be nearer to 40 ft than 30 ft. Not impossible at the lower range but just not as comfortable.

But if you tell us how much money you have it will be easier to advise.

Phil


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## mikehradecky (Jan 24, 2011)

Hey, this is my first post here also.

We have a 36' Hunter that we spend weekends on. I wish it were bigger. I've been aboard smaller boats and they are tiny.

Unless you and your wife are midgets, I would get the biggest boat you two can easily handle.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

I agree with both of the above posts, and can add that you want to make sure you have enough headroom, too. We have a Columbia 36 that I can walk almost the entire length inside of and not bump my head. We've owned several boats, and headroom was always something that I considered. Take a long look, MANY pictures and notes, and then look at other boats.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd have to disagree...you don't need a 40' boat. People have been cruising the seas in smaller boats for decades. Larry & Lin Pardey have cruised and lived aboard boats under 30' LOA for years. Smaller boats are often more forgiving in many cases, since the forces involved are much smaller. This is something that Beth Leonard points out in her book, The Voyager's Handbook, 2nd edition.

The recent trend towards larger boats is just that...a recent trend. I'd also point out that the level of seamanship has gone down as the boat size has gone up in many ways. 

I'm also a strong advocate of people being on a boat that any of the full-time adult crew can singlehand in all conditions. That isn't always possible on the larger boats. Once you get above 40' LOA, the sail, the lines, the anchors, all start to get large enough that handling them without powered assistance is difficult. And, as Beth Leonard points out in her book, the powered gear doesn't help you when you have to haul the sails out of the locker or bring the anchor out from inside the cabin. 

Also, the cost, both initial and on-going, are much higher as the boat gets larger. A good compromise between too small and too big would be a boat in the 33-37' range or so. Many boats in this range have the tankage and stowage required for longer passages and enough room to be comfortable to live aboard for extended periods of time when not cruising. 

Just remember that as a rule of thumb, the costs associated with owning a boat double for each 10' of boat length. Typically, a 40' boat costs twice as much to own and maintain as a 30' boat. Also, boats don't grow in size linearly, but geometrically. A 40' boat isn't 33% larger than a 30' boat, but more like 137% larger or over twice the size, as it has gotten taller, wider and longer.


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

thank you for the input, my budget...well it is all relative I guess. I am looking for a good solid boat with a good price tag, i dont want junk and I dont want the best money can buy either. I would not mind a boat that needs some TLC. I have been aboard an older 1972 narrow 42' that seemed to have less room than a friend 2005 35 hunter. I can however tell you that the 42' seemed to be built like a rock, compaired. I am going to look at an 67 bristol 29 to get an idea of space...I know it will be limited but it will give my wife and idea of space. BTW i am only 5'10" my if 5'2" i think most boats can accomodate us.


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## Windwardbow (Jan 6, 2011)

Bristol is not known for roomyness. We have a 25 footer. We looked at a 32 foot Bristol that didn't have much more room than our 25. Lots of wasted space. Not designed to be a liveaboard. Hunter seems to use every cubic inch available. We live on our 25. Do we wish it was bigger? Yeah, but we are also happy as a lark on it. If you ask someone with a 40 footer, they would probably wish it was bigger. Go small go now be happy.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd point out that boats that are very seaworthy and designed for making bluewater passages are going to be very different from the coastal cruisers that are basically designed to be floating livingrooms.


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## MARC2012 (Mar 17, 2008)

I have had saiboats from 13 ft to 42 ft.Now live on 32 ft.Sold 37 for this.marc


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## Michael K (Feb 27, 2006)

Go ahead and take a look at the Bristol 29. Then, try and see a Catalina 30 and a Freedom 32; I'm not advocating either of these two designs as best choices for a transatlantic passsage to the Med, but as designs that will impress you with the space they offer in a shorter LOA. The Freedom's layout - with the aft head - may also make a definitive impression on you.


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## Allanbc (Apr 19, 2007)

We used to own an Allied Chance 30-30. It was a great boat to sail but was pretty cramped down below. One of the POs had taken the boat through the Caribbean, through the Panama Canal, along the West Coast of Central America and back to the Gulf of Mexico. So it is completely doable.

I've also spent some time on an Allied Princess (36 foot). I really like Allied boats and they seem to be built like tanks.

We decided that we wanted a bit more room for cruising. We settled on a 36 foot boat. Yes, boats in the 40s are even more roomier but we settled for a more manageable boat for us. The Allied Princess was on our short list but we ended up with a Pearson 365 instead. Of the boats we looked at, we decided that Pearson was the best deal for us.

Our plans are on track from taking off and cruising next year in the Caribbean.


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

most [not all] 40+ft boats i've saw spend most of their time just sitting in a slip,no doubt the owners are hard at work somewhere paying for them and can only sail a couple times a year,to me lifes just too short to spend working/paying for something,just sitting, deteriating and waiting for the next foolish owner


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## john1066 (Feb 4, 2006)

We cruised full time for three years on a Pearson Vanguard, 33', eventually selling the boat in BVI. A few years later we did it again on a 41' ketch. The second boat was much more comfortable, of course, but I did miss the simple honesty of the smaller boat. If I do it again it will be on something around 35' I guess.


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

sawingknots said:


> most [not all] 40+ft boats i've saw spend most of their time just sitting in a slip,no doubt the owners are hard at work somewhere paying for them and can only sail a couple times a year,to me lifes just too short to spend working/paying for something,just sitting, deteriating and waiting for the next foolish owner


Thanks for reaffirming what I was thinking, my wife and I were looking at a 42 but have come realize that a smaller boat may fit the bill just fine...if not we can get a larger one. I do not have a money tree and I do want to sail...not chat it up over drinks on the dock...not my thing...actually the older I get the less I like other people. I also started thinking about the cost of maintaining the boat, things just seem considerably cheaper below 35ft....

Thanks to everyone else who replied so far, I take and discuss each opinion on here with my wife wife and hash things over, so thanks and keep the opinions coming


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

lol i understand completely about the older thing,i mostly sail solo sometimes i get on my own nerves


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

after speaking with my wife.... all my says she requires in a place to bathe, I may see how feasable it is to put a small shower in a 30ft. I know if there is a will there is a way! How do you all bathe on extended cruiseson smaller vessels? I see it not being a hassle in warmer climates but what about when its colder? thank you


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## thehardaground (Jan 19, 2011)

When you're looking at boats the other important thing that you need to remember to think about is where you are going to put your stuff. Some of the older boats seem "a bit cramped", but have lots of places to put things while other boats can feel big and roomy, but other than your foul weather gear there isn't any storage.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Cruiser2B said:


> after speaking with my wife.... all my says she requires in a place to bathe, I may see how feasable it is to put a small shower in a 30ft. I know if there is a will there is a way! How do you all bathe on extended cruiseson smaller vessels? I see it not being a hassle in warmer climates but what about when its colder? thank you


Two things come to mind. First a transom shower would be a great idea. Easy to install. Second might be a transom shower that sucks in salt water for bathing. Could also be used to wash things down in the cockpit without worrying about how much water you use.

A salt water transom shower would not be hot water, but at least you aren't wasting your fresh water.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

Yorksailor said:


> We know people who cruise on boats 28 ft to 65 ft. But for living and crossing oceans you need to be nearer to 40 ft than 30 ft. Not impossible at the lower range but just not as comfortable.


I disagree. Lynn and Larry Pardey probably would also (Though I think they take it to extremes going engineless)



> But if you tell us how much money you have it will be easier to advise.
> 
> Phil


The "Crap sandwich" principle.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> I'd point out that boats that are very seaworthy and designed for making bluewater passages are going to be very different from the coastal cruisers that are basically designed to be floating livingrooms.


I might add that "Roomy" is not necessarily a good thing at sea - may even be a hazard. Comfort at sea is not the same thing as comfort at the dock.

Reading down through this thread, I realize there are many prejudices that need to be addressed. Headroom is one of the essentials of comfortable living aboard, along with a decent cooker, sink for clean up and a seperate sleeping cabin. But you do not need full standing headroom throughout the boat.

Having a shower on(Inside) your boat will make you less, not more, comfortable unless you confine yourself to hot, dry climates or have a very large boat with powerful ventilators. Mold and mildew are bad enough without making that much water vapor. Personal hygiene is essential while cruising (Duh) but you will not be taking showers at sea. Learn to take sponge baths and save the "Hollywood" showers for the marina. In the tropics, you can shower in the rain as Laura mentions in this video 

Bigger is not safer. If you think so, think of Titanic and Edmund Fitzgerald.

In my opinion, there are only four reasons to have a cruising sailboat over thirty feet:

You have kids
Your ego needs feeding
You have too much stuff 
You entertain more than you sail

Just my opinion. Not worth any more than any other.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Got to agree with you here... +1

Please note, I never said roomy was a good thing at sea.



vega1860 said:


> I might add that "Roomy" is not necessarily a good thing at sea - may even be a hazard. Comfort at sea is not the same thing as comfort at the dock.
> 
> Reading down through this thread, I realize there are many prejudices that need to be addressed. Headroom is one of the essentials of comfortable living aboard, along with a decent cooker, sink for clean up and a seperate sleeping cabin. But you do not need full standing headroom throughout the boat.
> 
> ...


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

"In my opinion, there are only four reasons to have a cruising sailboat over thirty feet:

You have kids
Your ego needs feeding
You have too much stuff 
You entertain more than you sail"

Well... I don't have kids.

Seriously, it couldn't be an ego thing either, if I own a 1969 Columbia.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Please note, I never said roomy was a good thing at sea.


Of course not SD. Didn't mean to imply that you had. You, of course, know better.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Vega: I've been meaning to ask. What camera do you and the wife use to video?


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

tomperanteau said:


> "In my opinion, there are only four reasons to have a cruising sailboat over thirty feet:
> 
> You have kids
> Your ego needs feeding
> ...


I have a 27 footer and my "Ego" is as big as anybody's:hothead


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

tomperanteau said:


> Vega: I've been meaning to ask. What camera do you and the wife use to video?


It is a Sony HDD Handy Cam with a 30gb hard drive. Not sure of the model. We got it four years ago so it is obsolete now of course. Where our videos look less than great it is the rendering settings in the editing software, not the camera.

Laura is the photographer in the crew and she likes it for stills too. She hardly uses her Nikon anymore.

If I had to replace it I think I might get one of These


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

Thank you to everyone who replied, my wife and I are headed out on a weekend journey looking at a few 30's.

how much tankage should I look at the boat having. I am prepared to upgrade the boat if necessary for my use...what are the mins for fuel, water. Will a water maker fit or be feasible on a smaller boat?

Thanks again

Jason


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

Cruiser2B said:


> Thank you to everyone who replied, my wife and I are headed out on a weekend journey looking at a few 30's.
> 
> how much tankage should I look at the boat having. I am prepared to upgrade the boat if necessary for my use...what are the mins for fuel, water. Will a water maker fit or be feasible on a smaller boat?
> 
> ...


Of course it depends on the rate of consumption. At sea we find that we consume just under two gallons of water a day.

We have a Katydyne Power Survivor 40 E water maker on our Albin Vega 27. Installation was simple. It does not take up much space nor draw too much current. In our experience it has been worth every penny. With our 60 liter water tank, It has made life at sea much less stressful and extended our cruising range without the need for carrying extra water.

Our Yanmar 2GM20 Diesel engine burns fuel at a rate of 2.5 hrs per gal. YMMV

In a sailboat, fuel requirements are directly related to the patience of the captain and crew, IMO. We crossed the Pacific in 55 days on 15 gallons of diesel, used mostly to charge the batteries. We still had 8 gallons left on the morning of the last day to motor the last sixty miles through a dead calm to beat a weather front into Neah Bay. If you cannot wait a day or two for the wind to come up favorable you will need more. We prefer to use the engine only for entering and leaving a harbor and for charging the batteries when there is insufficient sun for the solar panels. At sea that is the way it worked, but we cruised the Pacific Northwest for more than three years and used our sails on only two occasions, and then only briefly, motoring everywhere we went.

Sailboats motoring around from place to place are a common sight. One assumes that those people have large tanks. As a practical matter, depending on your cruising area, it may be necessary to have the ability to motor for 40 hours or more. Sailing, kedging and sculling around may be romantic and "Green" but, for me, I will leave that sort of thing to the Pardeys.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Our Yanmar 2GM20 Diesel engine burns fuel at a rate of 2.5 hrs per gal. YMMV[/QUOTE said:


> That is one of the more exact quotes I have seen related to how much fuel it might take to get from point A to point B.
> 
> Thanks for that. Perhaps the rest of us can use that as a guide for what we will need in the future.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

tomperanteau said:


> That is one of the more exact quotes I have seen related to how much fuel it might take to get from point A to point B.
> 
> Thanks for that. Perhaps the rest of us can use that as a guide for what we will need in the future.


I figure it is something I need to know so I keep very close track of engine hours and fuel consumption in the logbook.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

I'm curious, what autopilot packed it in in just three days? Can you tell us about that?
John


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

ccriders said:


> I'm curious, what autopilot packed it in in just three days? Can you tell us about that?
> John


If that was directed at me, it was a Raymarine ST2000 Tiller Pilot. We went ahead across the pacific without it and, when we got to Port Townsend
we took it back to West Marine. They sent it to Raymarine who said the failure was caused by water damage 

The unit was brand new. We had never used it before we departed Honolulu.

Anyway, they gave us a new one and we've had no problems with it in the three and a half years since. It has gotten a lot of use too and in some pretty rough conditions.

No hu hu. 

Stuff happens, especially with electronic gadgets.


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

Well, got to look at a few 30's this weekend. I think this is the size for us. Looks abit on the small side interior wise but boat seems more than managable on the outside. This size boat fits our price range now, would have to keep saving for a 40ft, and will definitly get us out sailing faster and more often.

Thanks again for the great advice!


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Cruiser2B said:


> Well, got to look at a few 30's this weekend. I think this is the size for us. Looks abit on the small side interior wise but boat seems more than managable on the outside. This size boat fits our price range now, would have to keep saving for a 40ft, and will definitly get us out sailing faster and more often.
> 
> Thanks again for the great advice!


With how soft the market is these days, you can buy a whole lot of boat for a cheap price.

We recently saw a 51' Formosa that was beautiful inside and out. She was a late 70's I think. The only problem was that she had a blown diesel and the owner could not afford to fix her. He wanted $37k. Even with the blown engine this boat would have gone for closer to $100k just a few years ago. As I said, she was in almost pristine condition besides the engine, and was fully loaded for a blue water adventure.


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## Fedro (Jan 31, 2011)

Hi to all, this is my first post here. 
This tread pick up my attention, cos I'm allso considering something similar (but only part time, maby few months a year, as my kids are still in school). 
And apologise in advance for my terrible English   

Well, I think that nobady mentioned stuff above deck, and that is for me most important for shorthanded crew. With proper equipment 36 footer could be easier handled than some 28 footers

Cruiser2B, you should pay attention on equipment on every boat that you look, and consider how much money you got to invest on improvements (or, on the other word, it is beter to purchase instantly slightly expenciv boat with good equipment)

To mention few points:

Anchoring - we geting older, so electric windlass is must. And allso good reliable anchor(s) (I know that is questionable). Draging anchor in the midle of the night is for shure last thing that you want to face, not to mention life treating situations.
My first choise was CQR, but than I invest in Rocna (I have Van de Stadt 34 steel sailboat). I'm still on river, but before I go to sea I plan to buy at least one more anchor (probbably Fortress)

Mast and sails - Easy hoisting, reefing, lovering, trimming. Selftailing winches and headsail furling/reefing system are norm these days, but you can't count that you will find it on older boats.
On my boat I ordered single line reefing boom, and use cars instead of sliders on main sail, so I can easely and quickly hoist main sail (31 sq meters; 30+ kg weight), and easely lover and reef even on dovnwind curse.
For light winds I have 80 sq meters gennaker with endles line furling system. In that constelation I can alone easy hoist and manage all 3 sails ( 140 sq meters) on my 6 tone boat.
Hope this will help


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

After watching the Vega1860 youtube videos, we started thinking smaller(orginally looking at 42' ). We have given it much thought, we looked at upgrade and maintenance cost and how much money we are going to able to put away for cruising and have come up with......

I think we've settled on an Alberg 30. We looked at several, a bit small... my wife thinks its cozy...we'll see! We found a good solid boat and at reasonable price. We are having her hauled next weekend. If everything looks ok, she will be ours. We will upgrade her up and sail her on the chesapeake and atlanic for about 5 yrs before moving aboard and cruising but we are making progress toward our goal. thank you all for the input!


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## BrickPearson26 (May 10, 2007)

My girlfriend and I successfully cruised a Pearson 30 for six months last winter. While you do have to give up certain creature comforts with a smaller boat, the easy handling and cheaper maintenance certainly help out. 
Good luck with your (possibly) new boat!


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## maccauley123 (Sep 2, 2004)

I really enjoyed coming across this discussion. My wife and I have plans to take a years sabbatical in 5-10 years and explore the tropics. I had for years planned to get a 40' or so boat and desperately wanted a center cockpit. Back in December I looked at an Irwin 37 for sale and really liked it.

Following that my wife and I discussed it and basically decided which spend 10s of thousands on a new boat when the 29 footer we have will do. I have replaced or rebuilt many of the systems already and know the boat from stem to stern. I can take 10k and make many upgrades and improvements versus spending possibly 100k on a 40 footer. Leaves a lot more money to actually enjoy the cruising, not counting what I save in dockage, maintenance, etc. 

This really helped confirm that decision. We may not be super comfortable but we will still be out there. Just have to spend more time on shore exploring the places we are visiting.


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## MARC2012 (Mar 17, 2008)

I had a 37 cc & now have a 32 aft.Much happier.marc


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

My wife and I have been coastal cruising Maine for the last 8 or so years in a Pearson 28-2 and then an Ericson 35-3. Last January we decided to sell the Ericson and buy a boat to live aboard and eventually go cruising. We wanted something large enough for us and our dog and built for a possible crossing. We started looking at larger 45-50 ft. CC boats and found them to be more cramped than the smaller AC boats. They were in a size where the designers tried to put as many sleeping berths in as possible at the sacrifice of the salon. Also, we had never sailed a CC boat and were unsure how we would like it.

We then adjusted our needs and found a Caliber 40lrc that is the perfect size and at least 10 years newer than all the larger boats we had been looking at. Newer is definitely better. This boat had been actively cruising so she was turnkey. We actually bought her out from under the POs who were cruising Maine from Texas.

The Pullman and forward head/shower are gret for the LA lifestyle. The salon is big enough with 2 berth suitable for long passages. Pullman can be used to stow gear as we have leecloths for every conceivable berth and shelf on the boat. She has a head at the base of the companionway. Aft cabin is big enough for visiters and small enough to limit their stays. Cutter rig for many sail combos. Tons of space as all the tanks are below the floorboards built into the hull. 210 fuel, 175 water, 80 holding. reinforced collision areas and the holding tank in the bow doubles as a watertight compartment in case of collision and a hull breach.

One issue is the step through companionway with no bridgedeck. Great for LA and coastal cruising but you have to make sure you secure your hatchboards off-shore.

Within a week of buying her we did a 100nm overnight race from Portland to NE Harbor in light winds(5-7kts). We placed third but managed to keep pace with an Ericson 34 and a C&C 35. And we had 13yr old sails and no experience with this boat.

Living aboard has been great and we look forward to a lot of cruising starting in early May.


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