# Need advice for leaving my slip in strong currents



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

OK, guys, I could use some help getting OUT of my slip. We have very strong tidal currents on the Delaware river, pushing me directly into or out of the slip. Of course, as I'm coming into the fairway these are strong side currents.

FYI, I have to back into the slip because the finger piers are not long enough, and the freeboard and lack of side decks on the Catalina 250 makes it impossible to board amidships.

For coming into the slip, I start out in the river and determine the throttle level needed to barely make headway into the current going BACKWARDS. I stand in front of the wheel facing backwards and holding the wheel tightly (since the rudder is badly unbalanced going backwards) and my wife sits at the motor and controls throttle/shift. (This is an outboard design with no controls at the pedestal.) Then I approach the fairway backwards. At this speed the boat is "crabbing" badly, since the speed is not enough to swing the boat around into a straight-backwards orientation in the cross-current, so I have her juice up the throttle a bit. Once we get to the slip I do a hard 90-degree turn and immediately throw it in neutral and sometimes hard forward to keep from hitting. A spring line onto an amidships cleat pulls us nicely to the finger pier and prevents us from hitting, but when it's just the two of us we sometimes get too far past the spring line to get it on the cleat - that's when she really throws it into hard forward. However, we've managed to get into the dock every time without any mishaps.

But going out is a much tougher problem. The boat just does not want to turn at slow speed. This is especially bad when we're going with the current out of the slip - we did have a mishap where we had to hold ourselves off of the boat across from us. When with the current, there is just no way to make the turn quickly enough to avoid being carried into the boats across from us - even when we pivot the motor. So I would like your advice on springing out of the slip. This is not as easy as it might appear, because there are no pilings. So I would need to spring from a cleat on the finger pier, which requires a very long spring line, and thus a large turning radius.

There are a couple of possibilities. We could put a spring line on the bow to turn us toward the starboard and proceed out of the marina forward, or we could spring amidships on the port side, swinging the boat to port, then back out of the marina in reverse. The latter would use a shorter spring line and be easier to access since it's amidships. The bow is very narrow and my wife does not like going up there.

Here is a satellite pic of the marina. Our boat is where the white rectangle is located (sorry for my lousy photo editing skills). There are currently more boats across from us than pictured here. Currents go roughly left to right depending on the tide:









Here is a schematic of the slips and boats adjacent to me. You can see that I need to maneuver between a 36' Chris Craft tri-cabin two slips up, and two other boats across from him with very threatening looking bow sprits. You can see that springing to the starboard from the bow will take over 60' of line - 30' from bow to cleat, and 30' back the other way:









Here is a picture of my neighboring boats (on a very dreary evening). You can see that the available cleats are pretty far back on the finger dock:









And finally here is a view looking out toward the river. The bow of my boat is barely visible to the far right - back from the Chris Craft:









I am open to your suggestions.


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## FSMike (Jan 15, 2010)

RhythmDoctor -
I'm impressed with your ability to get into your slip. When the current is with you when leaving, why not just reverse the process and crab out the fairway with the engine in reverse?
When the current is against you, the boat should turn with a little patience and using the current to help you turn. Just get the boat pointed correctly when you start to leave the slip.
Or maybe I don't understand the situation?


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## tomandchris (Nov 11, 2009)

I am not certain that I get this, but the Chris Craft, probably a twin screw, probably has it easier. 

I too am impressed that you can get in there as well as you seem to. Anyone with that ability should get out even easier.

Again, not quite sure...but. I would probably attempt a FLOATING line that can loop over a cleat on the end of your peir, around the back of the boat to a starboard stern cleat (mid ships might also work but a longer line) and handled by one of you. As you pull forward take out the slack in that line and apply pressure that will turn the boat to starboard and power you into the fairway when you are clear. Release the line so it slides off the pier cleat and pull it in so that it does not get fouled. Just make sure that you have a fair lead that does not snag on the pier or you will have to practice your return while avoiding that floating line.


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## peptobysmol (Apr 30, 2009)

Perhaps a spring line on the bow - port side. Since the tide is moving from the stern, let the tide with low power and left rudder take you out of the slip. Keep tension on the spring line until you are bow towards your slip. Then throttle up, left rudder and crab until you get enough hull speed to manuever with your rudder. This probably would require your wife to stand at least midships to retrieve your spring line.

Otherwise, what HP outboard do you have? Also, would a different pitch prop offer more torque for getting more initial hull speed? How do other sailboats pull it off that are facing the same direction?


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## TheMadchef (Feb 16, 2010)

i agree with tomandchris regarding a line wrapped around the stern from to a starboard boat cleat to a port finger cleat as you exit your slip foreward. BUT ideally one would want to attatch this to a cleat on the boat as far forward as possible, as this will hold the bow against the current while your outboard "catches up" with the lateral movement of the craft and begins to push foreward. if you cleat this line abaft, your bow will only carry currentward and you will be screwed. Just make sure your linesperson slacks & pulls the line after you have acheived foreward motion.


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## tomandchris (Nov 11, 2009)

Agree, the farther forward the better, just be sure you clear the boat before taking out slack. With a 25' boat it really should not matter if you have any way on the boat will turn when you snug the line.


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## SoulVoyage (May 9, 2010)

For leaving the slip you can spring off your starboard NOW, but what about when that empty slip to strbd has a boat in it? No boat, no problem. I'd would start practicing another method for the eventuality of that slip filling up. 

There is a way you can do it without springing. When the tide is with you, coming from astern, the water action against your rudder is going to act the same way as it would when you are engine reversing your boat. In reversing,of course, your rudder points to the direction your stern will go, and opposite the direction your bow will go (not the tilller, mind you...the rudder). The following depends on if your prop is forward of your rudder or abaft your rudder, or off to one side or the other. 

Anyway: Leaving slip with the tide: Put your engine in reverse, so that your fairly neutral with the dock but going against the tidal vector. Put the rudder to port (tiller top starboard)..keep your outboard dead astern. Your bow should begin to swing towards strbd because of thew water action on your swung rudder. Gradually ease of on the reverse thrust. and the current will take you forawrd. Your bow should already be pointing slightly towards strbd. Reversing against the current just helps increase the pressure on the rudder. As you know, you don't get a lot of turning initiative when neutral with this current 9none, really). With the current working on your rudder and now your moving forard because of the current, your stern should start swinging to port, initiating your turn. As it's doing this, Put the engine in forward at 1/3 throttle and carry out your turn to starboard. This SHOULD be a fairly controlled turn if everything works out right. Maybe have a few people aboard with boathooks the first couple times you try this. 

With the tide against you, just gun her forward into the current and make a big wide arc strbd turn, keeping plenty of distance off that Chris-craft.

Anyway, the point is, the current is often your friend in tight conditions if you use it like a tool. 

My boat ihas a long full keel, so it would act entirely differently in that place.

If the wind is strong enough and from right direction, you can also use your jib to swing your bow, and you'll be the envy of the other slip-holders!

How many knots is the tidal current there?

Sorry for ALL the typos, but I had to put my screen viewer at like 60% just to be able to see all of the text, because that picture is SOOO wide! The letters on my screen are now the size of quarks.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

A couple of things.

With a strong side current, you cannot passage a narrow fairway other than with the boat angled between the current direction and your direction of travel...you need to "crab" in and out. Don't expect to turn 90% and run in or out, the boat will move sideways at the speed of the current and you will run out of fairway.

You should not have a problem turning at low speed, you have the strength of the current working on the rudder, even if the boat has no headway.

You need to enter your slip differently than other boaters. Set up outside the fairway directly into or against the current (depending on how you want to enter the slip) by adjusting the throttle so the boat stops directly in front of the fairway. With the correct throttle you should stay perfectly still. Then adjust your rudder so the boat turns 5-10% towards the fairway, and adjust the rudder back so the boat holds that angel, adding more throttle as needed to stay in the center of the fairway. Let the boat slowly crab up the fairway until you are at your slip. Apply rudder again straighten the boat into the current, then slightly increase/decrease throttle so boat slowly moves into the slip. Tie up.

Just get used to the idea of moving sideways up and down the fairway, use the current for rudder control, and adjust the location lf the boat only by throttling just above or below the current speed.

Sounds like fun.

PS - successfully turning the boat 90 degrees into the fairway will deliver you into a world of hurt...


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I am going to have to draw out some of the mechanics on paper to make sure I fully understand, and then get back to you with any questions. (Sorry, it's an engineer thing about me - it always has to be a picture.)

I mis-described my docking maneuvers somewhat. Rather than a sharp 90 degree turn, right now it actually is more gradual. As soon as I get past the bow of that Chris Craft far enough to see into my slip, I start to make the turn into my slip - a little more gradually than I described. This will work great as long as that slip next to me continues to be vacant. If they put someone in there, it is going to get mighty tough to make the turn sharp enough without creating way too much rotational inertia in my boat. The owner of the Chris Craft told me that the slip next to me was vacant last year, so I can hope it may stay that way this year - we'll have to see. Hopefully that Chris Craft is so imposing that nobody wants to dock next to it. He'll be looking right down into their cabin. (And mine, but I have factory window shades.)

My relative success in docking has made my difficulties leaving the slip even more frustrating.

BTW, the Chris Craft (which may actually be 33 or 35') is actually a single screw. The owner has two boats in this marina (and several in other marinas). They use the Chris Craft as a floating condo that never leaves the dock, and they have a Donzi (or something similar) two slips down that they use for joyriding.

Quick answers to other questions:


I am not sure exactly how fast the current is. NOAA lists typical peak currents of 1.4-2.0 knots, but I am not sure where their sensors are relative to the marina. Ulladh keeps his boat at a nearby marina and says he has clocked it up to 6 knots, but there's no way I'll attempt to go out when the current is at hull speed.  
This boat has a 15 hp Honda outboard, which is about double what's needed to achieve hull speed. Most Catalina 250s have 8-9.9 hp. But that extra power may come in handy in the currents.

I just saw SoulVoyage's suggestion, and I have been thinking similarly. When the current is pushing me out of the dock, I might be able to find a slow reverse speed that carries me out of the dock very gradually, and maintains good (negative) speed over water so I have good rudder control (just in the opposite direction from what I'm used to). However, the part about turning the bow to starboard, then going into forward scares me. I know from the limited experience that I have that shifting the motor from reverse to forward will make me momentarily lose control, and the currents could be enough to get me in trouble at that point. (That's why I back in all the way from the river - so I don't have to change direction on the way in.) So I'm actually thinking of turning the bow to port (stern to starboard) with the motor in reverse, then once my stern is clear of the slip and the Chris Craft, throttle up in reverse and back out of the fairway. This way I always have good speed relative to water, and don't need to worry about losing control. Because of the direction that my boat would crab in the side-current, this would also require slightly less than a 90 degree turn. But the major negative of this is the instability of the rudder in reverse - I would absolutely have to stay at the pedestal the whole time and keep both hands firmly gripped on the wheel. I could not leave the wheel if we needed extra hands to hold off another boat, grab a boat pole, etc.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Sailingfool - I just saw your note after posting my response. What you described is exactly what I am doing for docking when the tide is pushing me away from the slip. With the tide pushing me into the slip it gets hair-raising, because in order to maintain some SOW for rudder control, my SOG is pretty fast. But we've been able to stop without hitting the dock, especially when we have a third hand onboard to get the breast lines cleated quickly. So far, entering the fairway and docking has not been a problem.

But it's leaving the dock that has been problematic.


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

Why park stern in? It looks like you can crab in going forward. Then when leaving the slip you can drift straight back, let the bow turn to port slightly, and then crab out going forward.

A big problem with turning while moving with the current is that the rudder stalls in the water flow. If your boat is moving at the same speed as the current your rudder does not generate any lift. Better to keep the rudder in an opposite direction to the current flow (pointing the bow into the current) so that the rudder will never get stalled.


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## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Normal peek tidal current at Essington is about 3 knots, heavy rain or snow melt in the upper Delaware valley or extreme high or low pressure over the bay combined with a high-high tide will produce the 6 knots.
But we get local pockets that just produce tidal currents that are hard to predict.
I have had several different slips at Anchorage; outside tee has strongest and most predictable current, inside slips closer to the mud flats have a component from the flats filling or draining but slightly weaker main current.

I will be working today or I would be availalbe, but will be at Essington tomorrow, Sunday.

I have found that I have more directional control comimg into a slip with the boat at about 45deg to or off the current then slam the rudder over at the last second. I leave the motor in gear at slighly higher than idle, reverse or forward depending on current until I have at least 2 dock lines secured.

If not at slack plan an agressive entry or exit, but be ready to peel-off and try again.

Exiting the slip, I try to get the bow 45deg to the current as I go out the fairway until I have suffcient speed. 90deg to the current and the bow will swing to my dock neighbors.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

KeelHaulin said:


> Why park stern in?...


As I mentioned in my OP, the short finger docks only reach to amidships. The Catalina 250 has high freeboard and no side decks, making it impossible to board amidships or on the bow from the low floating docks. That's why I have to dock stern in.



KeelHaulin said:


> ...Better to keep the rudder in an opposite direction to the current flow (pointing the bow into the current) so that the rudder will never get stalled.


That is completely true, except the current can vary 180° based on the tide. So no one strategy will solve the problem. I may need to do one thing for ebb, and a totally different thing for flood.

Hey Ulladh, thanks for your offer, but Sunday my son is having a birthday party and that's going to tie up the whole day. I offered a birthday sail, but he's not a wild about sailing as we are. :laugher


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

You mention the inability to take your hands off the wheel. I don't have current to contend with, but do have cross winds and my current boat is a inboard. I have to back into my slip also. Like you, I start backing outside the fairway to get good control of the boat. If you have one, use your wheel brake to lock the rudder in place. Tighten the brake so that the rudder cannot change position on it's own, but not so tight that you can't override it. I single hand my boat (33') and must leave the wheel momentarilly to hook on lines. The brake does a good job holding the rudder. Caution, you don't want the rudder to slam into the stops, so adjust brake tension accordingly.


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

There are a couple of modifications that you might want to consider to make handling the engine and helm a one person job. First of all, if your engine was connected to the rudder, these two components would work together and be controlled by the wheel. Here is a link to a company than makes such a linkage...go to the section on sailboat options. http://www.ezsteer.com/docs/EZSTEERProducts.pdf

West Marine has a throttle extension handle which would give you control over engine speed: West Marine Model 224073.

Additionally, a remote shifter linkage from Honda (if available) would give control over forward/reverse. One universal shifter is described here: http://www.powertiller.net/Manuals Powertiller/PowerTiller Owners Manual 3- 29 -05.pdf

This would free up the second person to assist with lines, etc. Not sure how much these would cost, but I believe these would make life simpler.


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## tomandchris (Nov 11, 2009)

I still believe that the spring line will work for you if the current is with you or against you on the way out. You will need a long enough line to double back to the cleat on the dock, but you still control where you want to make the turn. With your engine you should have no problem powering around the turn with a spring line snubbed, and it should not matter if a boat is in the slip next to you or not. Just find out what angle works best in what tidal current, and practice it.


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

A couple more thoughts: One of your concerns is using an extremely long spring line that is wrapped around the dock cleat and then must be recovered by casting off one end and pulling the line on board around the dock cleat. Consider using a braided polypropylene line. These will float and reduce the risk of getting into the prop. The braided is much less stiff than three strand. When not in use, keep this line out of sunlight as polypropylene loses its strength quickly to UV light. It is not very stretchy, but is less likely to tangle your prop.

A spring line located to the boat's midships cleat might give you better control than to the bow and would be a little shorter.

Pulling that long line around the cleat runs a risk that the long line is going to hang up on something. I use a toggle line in such situations. This eliminates dragging the spring line around the cleat and I believe that there is less chance to hang up on something. Briefly, a toggle line is a line with two loops tied in the dock cleat end. One loop is a little longer than the other so that the connection point is not over the cleat...one loop goes around the cleat and connects to the other loop with a ~8" long PVC pipe toggle. The toggle has a hole in one end through which a small (1/4") polypropylene retreival line is connected to the toggle. This line is long and goes back on board the boat, in my case to the helm so I can control it. The other end of this retrevial line (which passes through and is tied to the toggle) is tied loosely to one of the toggle line loops (but does not go around the dock cleat). The toggle connects the two loops together by wrapping one loop around the other and inserting the toggle to hold the two together. To avoid the toggle from falling out if the line goes slack, I use a short piece of rubber bicycle tube that is secured permanenty to the retreival line end of the toggle. At the other end of the bicycle tube, there is a hole that must be stretched to fit over the free end of the toggle. First connect the toggle line loops, then over the top, put the rubber tube onto the other end of the toggle. Now, if the line goes slack, the toggle will not fall out. With this arrangement, you can power ahead on the spring line, make your turn to the proper crabbing angle, momentarily slack the toggle line from the boat to make it easier to disconnect, pull the retreivial line to break the connection and use the retreival line to pull both lines back on board. When the toggle is pulled, the two loops fall apart and away from the cleat.

On my boat, to avoid having to go forward, I use some blocks connected to the stem plate and use these to lead on board lines back to the cockpit. To help snub the bow (or spring line), I take a couple of wraps over the primary winch at the cockpit, then lead and terminate the line at a fiddle block with cam cleat that is attached to the pushpit (stern) rail. Garhauer was the source of this block. I used Ronstan Series 50 blocks at the bow. This saves me from having to go forward when docking or undocking. You situtation is some different, but this possibly aid in eliminating the need to go to the bow.

Finally, watch how (and discuss with) other sailboats with similar set ups to see how they deal with the problem. Not all the slips were occupied in the photo. Could you shift to another one that would facilitate docking/undocking better?

You have a tough situation and appear to be handling it well. Good luck.


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

OK; missed that detail about the short finger docks; and I thought you were talking about river flow in one direction, not tidal flow.

Looking at that google image; there are lots of empty side ties at the ends of the fingers, and on the shore side of the main walkway; are any available? I have a situation where I could not get my boat backing/turning to port; so I ended up changing slips so it would eliminate the problem when exiting. My boat has an offset prop and the torque counteracts the walk and rudder.

Here is something to try (I have never done this but it might be worth considering):

Take a long line from the bow on your port side (50' or so, thin diameter so it will pay out and haul easily); and double the line so you have control of the bitter end. As you leave the slip pay out the doubled line. When you are clear, cleat the line off back at the bow and let the current swing you around. Once you are pointing toward the current; motor back toward your slip to get some slack on the doubled line; then drop the bitter end and haul it aboard.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

KeelHaulin said:


> ...Looking at that google image; there are lots of empty side ties at the ends of the fingers, and on the shore side of the main walkway; are any available?...


I do not know when that pic was taken. Although the marina is far from capacity, I believe that it is more full than the pic shows. If it was taken on a nice weekend day, many of the boats may be out for the day.

All the docks at the end tees, and the ones immediately in from those are taken. They're real popular because the tee docks go full length. I was interested in those because I could pull in forwards or backwards. I had one on a temporary basis in April, but I had to vacate it.

Nobody rents along the shore side of the main dock. It's bare mud there at low tide. The boats docked there must be transients.

It is also misleading because not all the slips are the same length/width. The marina charges by the foot, and the cost/foot goes up for larger boats, so the price escalates quickly if you want a really big slip. The charge is based on either the actual length of your boat or the minimum size the slip is designed for. I asked for a 30' slip so I could have plenty of length to lift my outboard and a little extra width. My 30' slip is designed to accommodate 27-30' boats, so I am paying what a 27' boat would pay. It's about $75 more per season than what I would pay for a 25' slip, so it's no big deal. But if I wanted a 36' slip, I'd end up paying almost double. So you need to be careful - some of those empty slips you see may be unreasonably expensive vs. what I have now.

I went and looked at the manager's layout of the marina, and I actually have one of the better slips that are available. You can see on the satellite pic that the docks are a little further apart where I am. So as tight as it is, there is actually a little more maneuvering room there than elsewhere. The vacant slip right next to me is a 36' slip (note on my drawing that the finger dock is a little longer), so our two slips combined are a little wider than two 30' slips would be. The slips at the outer ends tend to be larger slips, and the larger boats prefer to be there. So that 36' slip next to me might stay vacant all year, since it is a less desirable location for a large boat.

I could go over to one of the slips facing toward mine if prop walk is taking me in the wrong direction. I have noticed that the bow tends to go toward port when I start to exit the slip, which could be prop walk or the fact that the motor is on the starboard side of the boat, or it could be that the current is not perfectly aligned with my boat. Not sure at this point. But if I decide to back out of the fairway, the bow going to port is a good thing.


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## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

You make a good point for a bow thruster, even on a small boat! All kidding aside, how about a long shaft trolling motor on quick release bracket at the bow? You'd mount it sideways to go out or come back in, using it as a bow thruster. Might seem like overkill, but one good crash and it will suddenly look like a cheap solution.

Gary H. Lucas


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

If you are leaving your slip with the current at your stern; which direction is the wind?

If you are pointing up wind it might make sense to have your jib hoisted so as the bow starts to turn you will get some wind against your sail and you will get blown down quickly and turned. Don't use the sail to make way; just use it to help the boat pivot. Once the boat is turned you can dump the sheet and motor out; but you would need to get the bow turned up-current first. Only do this if you are dead upwind or with wind on your port side. If the wind is to starboard you will never get through the eye of the wind with the sail up.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

KeelHaulin said:


> If you are leaving your slip with the current at your stern; which direction is the wind?
> 
> If you are pointing up wind it might make sense to have your jib hoisted so as the bow starts to turn you will get some wind against your sail and you will get blown down quickly and turned. Don't use the sail to make way; just use it to help the boat pivot. Once the boat is turned you can dump the sheet and motor out; but you would need to get the bow turned up-current first. Only do this if you are dead upwind or with wind on your port side. If the wind is to starboard you will never get through the eye of the wind with the sail up.


Hmmm, very creative idea, but the google pic is north up. Prevailing wind is usually west, so we're typically directly downwind. If it's northwest it could help kick the bow to the starboard, but it would also push us further toward the opposing dock.

My biggest problem with your idea is that it's yet another thing to manage in an environment where we're already on the brink of overload. Even for my wife and me, something as simple as adding a spring line is a challenge when I have to hold the wheel with both hands and she has to man the outboard. If my oldest son is along we're capable of more, but I can't plan on him being available.

NCC320 posted earlier about a hard link and throttle control. I've looked into both extensively. I purchased a Stearns hard link but have not installed it. I thought I had full rotation of the motor, but after ordering it I discovered that full rotation is only available in neutral or reverse. In forward the shift lever just barely hits the side of the engine well, which in a panic situation could break off the shift lever or harm the transmission. In order to make it clear I need to install a mounting bracket or put in a spacer that will lift push the engine back and up a couple of inches (thus increasing potential for cavitation). Bottom line is that this is a bigger project than it seems, and I'm not sure I'm willing to make such major mods to the boat.

Putting controls at the pedestal could potentially be a huge benefit, and I've checked it out. There are dealers out there who have installed the really nice chrome Edson controls at the steering pedestal with a similar Honda outboard. Unfortunately when I inspected the throttle mechanism on my outboard (typical tiller-activated twist throttled) it appeared to be a cable that loops around the handle and around a sheave inside the motor. This pull-pull mechanism looks like it would not convert easily to the typical push-pull linkage uses in remote controls. Maybe it's doable by a dealer (for a couple thousand dollars), but definitely not a DIY weekend project. The nearest full-line Honda marine dealer is 20+ miles up the river, and I don't want to put my boat out of commission during the season.

The tiller extension is definitely a possibility. It could help things a little.

But I think the ultimate solution does rest with learning to manage the currents to my advantage.

I'll continue to digest your suggestions and draw some pictures to get a clear understanding.


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

I think you guys are doing a good job considering that you are fighting current and parking stern-in. We had a similar situation once where we got blown down into the end of our dock finger. It's not fun; but the first thing to remember is to try not to get anxious and get the boat moving too fast in an effort to avoid brushing a dock or boat. The slower you are moving in the event you bump another boat the better for both your boat and theirs. It's also a good idea to always have a boat hook and a fender that is not tied down so you can throw the fender between your hull and anything you might hit; or use the pole to push off if you can find a safe place to push away from on another boat (I'd rather someone push off of my boat than be hit any day).

Have you tried entering the fairway in forward; then turning down in front of your slip and backing straight in? You might try this as a maneuver to practice; it could make things easier for getting in the slip if you get the hang of it. Another thing to do would be to practice some maneuvers outside of the fairway; use an empty side-tie as your target dock and try to make the boat do what you would need to accomplish inside of the fairway. This way if you do something wrong you can abort to open water easily. A few days of practice docking like this in different conditions can make a world of difference so you know how to attack each problem.


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

A couple of additional thoughts:

If the current reverses, you would seem to be in a tidal situation. This means that at the time of tide/current reversal there is little or no current. Schedule your departures and arrivals to match periods of low or no current. Adds an unwanted constraint, but should reduce fear of docking.

Where I fish on the coast, there are two ramp facilities. One is very nice but docking is always a crash prone event because of the tidal current. The second ramp facility is a bit remote and not as nice, but is located in such a way/place that there is little or no current. Therefore, we use this second ramp. In your case, is there another marina that might make docking a bit easier?

It's my belief that the helmsman needs to have access to and control of the engine. The first time that there is a miscommunication between the person operating the engine and the one on the helm that results in damage to the boat, there's going to be a hot argument, and you may well find that after that, you can't get someone to operate the engine. As to linking the rudder to the engine and moving throttle and gear shifter controls to where the helmsman can reach them, I don't believe you have to spend $2000. The link between the engine and rudder seems simple enough....somewhere I think I saw the price of about $60 for the link device and you would have to have some attachements, so double that amount. This link is independent of engine controls. As to the engine controls, you don't have to have these on the wheel pedestal. The throttle extension that I mentioned earlier from West Marine is about $60 and will handle speed and kill? functions. A push pull Teleflex cable from West Marine is about $35 and brackets, pivots at both ends of the cable might be another $35-$70. If there is limited room for shift lever travel, mount the push pull cable so the action is away from the cockpit (the flexible cable will allow this and will also accommodate raising the engine). Mount this push pull cable control on the pushpit/stern rail. On the engine end, drill a hole in the shifter lever, mount a pivot (universal ball joint) to the outside of the lever. To do this, you may have to custom make a few simple brackets, but this should not be too difficult or expensive. The helmsman can position himself to the side and operate both engine controls and wheel. Get a West Marine or other catalog to see what components are available ready made (their website doesn't show everything).

Back to the rudder/engine link: Check the site that I gave you earlier for this mechanism. Somewhere in that document, there is a picture of the equipment, including brackets, that you will need to connect an outboard rudder to and outboard engine. This might be better than the Sterns unit that you have. I have no idea what the cost would be, but these people seem to have thought out the situation for lots of different situations.

My comments are/have been offered just as suggestions. You, better than anyone else, know exactly what the details of your situation are, and in the end, you'll work out a system that may or may not include any the suggestions made by me or others. Good luck.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Thanks for your suggestions. I think my prior post explained why both the hard link and the pedestal controls would be more difficult than most realize. I have seen a couple of installations of Honda side-mount throttle control consoles on this boat, and in both cases they created an unacceptable trip/toe stubbing hazard with this boat. Plus, it would not be accessible when standing in front of the wheel facing backwards, which is the one docking orientation that I have had the most success with.

Slackwater departures and arrivals will always be easier (unless there is a lot of wind), but our departure and arrival times are already heavily constrained by other considerations.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

RhythmDoctor said:


> ...I purchased a Stearns hard link but have not installed it. I thought I had full rotation of the motor, but after ordering it I discovered that full rotation is only available in neutral or reverse. In forward the shift lever just barely hits the side of the engine well, which in a panic situation could break off the shift lever or harm the transmission. In order to make it clear I need to install a mounting bracket or put in a spacer that will lift push the engine back and up a couple of inches (thus increasing potential for cavitation). Bottom line is that this is a bigger project than it seems, and I'm not sure I'm willing to make such major mods to the boat...


Quick update. I just could not bring myself to return the Stearns hard link, so I decided to figure out something to do with it. Installing a motor mount was way more complicated than I was willing to do, plus it creates other problems such as making it very difficult to tilt the motor up. So I decided that rather than seeking the perfection of the motor rotating 100% of its full capability, I decided to design the system to give some rotation (about 80% of the motor's maximum), but not enough to bump against the sides of the motor well in the way that I described above. I've fabricated all the needed parts and will install it next chance I get to go down to the boat.

The Stearns link is very nicely designed to be easily removed when I want to tilt the motor for storage. Right now we are not all that picky about performance (and we need to be able to fire up the motor on short notice if a freighter is coming), so we will probably leave the motor down with link in place while we are sailing.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I stopped down at Riverside YC today RD.. I agree .. the current there races! 
I think it's because the water is funneling around the island (very large Island too!) At first glance most people would think it's the river itself the race is so wide. Nice area though!


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

deniseO30 said:


> I stopped down at Riverside YC today RD.. I agree .. the current there races!
> I think it's because the water is funneling around the island (very large Island too!) At first glance most people would think it's the river itself the race is so wide. Nice area though!


Yes, the split seems to accelerate the water quite a bit. But it does keep your bottom relatively smooth! My rudder has ablative paint, and most of it is gone. I suspect the current also scoops the silt off the bottom pretty well, which is why I have 16' in my slip at low tide.

The island gives nice protection from the freighters, and does give the waterfront a natural, untouched ambience - until another jet flies overhead!


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

The following is not a good idea (Sort of a captain Ron manuver) but I've been thinking about this for several days now so I had to write it up. If you do try it please be sure to have someone on the dock taking video it would be spectacular.
1. Create one foot loop with a very light line with a breaking strengh of about 50 lbs.
2. Drop that loop over the cleat at the west corner of the finger pier.
3. Tie a bowline with a floating line to the loop.
4. Tie the other end of the floating line to the starboard rear cleat and adjust length.
5. Blast out of the slip at a good speed.
6. At exactly the right moment the stern of the boat will be yanked to port the bow will come starboard and the light line will break.
7. Haul in the floating line.

Like I said it it obviously a bad idea but you have to admit it would make awsome video if you could get it to work.
Sort of like the sailing equilivant to a Jackie Chan movie.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

davidpm said:


> The following is not a good idea (Sort of a captain Ron manuver) but I've been thinking about this for several days now so I had to write it up. If you do try it please be sure to have someone on the dock taking video it would be spectacular.
> 1. Create one foot loop with a very light line with a breaking strengh of about 50 lbs.
> 2. Drop that loop over the cleat at the west corner of the finger pier.
> 3. Tie a bowline with a floating line to the loop.
> ...


Actually, I had been jokingly thinking of something similar. If I were to try this, I would also need to warn people not to stand directly behind either cleat, since if the line had any flex it could fling like a bungee cord. Another potential problem is if the manufacturer of the line reports 50 lb breaking strength, but actually has built in a "safety factor" to account for deterioration over time, and the actual strength of new line is 200 lb.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

RhythmDoctor said:


> Actually, I had been jokingly thinking of something similar. If I were to try this, I would also need to warn people not to stand directly behind either cleat, since if the line had any flex it could fling like a bungee cord. Another potential problem is if the manufacturer of the line reports 50 lb breaking strength, but actually has built in a "safety factor" to account for deterioration over time, and the actual strength of new line is 200 lb.


The actually breaking strength would be easy to check.
A tree limb and a couple of weights from a weight set.

I was also thinking that on the boat end one of the rubber snubber cords where you wrap your dock line around a long rubber tube would give it more of a yank than a snap.
The snap back would be minimal as their would be no weight at the dock end of the line. They did a test of this on myth busters and it was not as much of an effect as expected.

Also you could put the dock line on the west side of the finger pier to give you a couple more degrees angle.

The real challenge would be to have the cahunas to come blasting out fast enough so that the angles would work out. If the stern gets blown west too much and you have no angle you would have no effect.

I can't belive we are talking seriously about this.
You are only 4 hours away from CT what weekend do you have in mind?

In fact we just invented a whole new genre of sailnet videos.
We travel to each others boats and do stuff we would never have the nerve to do on our own and really push the envelope of sailing.
Call it sailnutter.com


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

davidpm said:


> The actually breaking strength would be easy to check.
> A tree limb and a couple of weights from a weight set...


Actually not quite that simple. The rate of deformation greatly affects the breaking strength, especially for synthetic lines. Fast deformation (like you propose for the boat) would cause breakage at a lower tensile stress. The line would be more brittle, and could be confirmed by microscopic observation of the fibers, where a 45 degree spiral characteristic of brittle fracture would be observed. Slower deformation (like with the tree) would cause breakage at a higher tensile stress. The microscope would show "necking" at the fracture points characteristic of ductile breakage. Temperature could have a big effect too - lower temp means more brittle. I'm a polymer guy, so I know a little about these things.



davidpm - definitely not by RhythmDoctor said:


> ...I can't belive we are talking seriously about this.


You may be - I am not!


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Lessee... 2 really long bungees.... a winch on dock rear and center of your slip... a quick release trigger...oh.. and a tire on the bow... and oh darn.. 2 more bungees in the reverse direction...


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

RhythmDoctor said:


> Actually not quite that simple. The rate of deformation greatly affects the breaking strength, especially for synthetic lines. Fast deformation (like you propose for the boat) would cause breakage at a lower tensile stress.


Of course you are correct. I thought of that after posting.

What you are doing to come into the slip is a modified version of "ferry gliding". You may find it interesting to read up on the technique on the forum and others.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I installed my simplified hard link today. Weather was too unstable to take it out for a test run. Here are some pics:

Here are the mounting pins without the link attached:









Here is the link. I cut several inches off from the way it was supplied by Stearns. Note that I have prepared the link for the inevitable drop in the water:









This is the view from behind the transom. (If anyone knows where I can find an exact replacement for the fuel box cowl vent please let me know.) Note at the bottom of the aluminum top-of-rudder assembly I have used some adhesive pads with interlocking fingers to secure the base. Without this the assembly has a bit of a tendency to pivot forward and back under the slight torque when turning the motor. Using the pads and a wing nut makes it easily removable in case I need to use the emergency tiller:









Starboard motion is somewhat compromised by the parallax problem of having the link mounted diagonally. I could alleviate this somewhat by moving the pintle more toward port (and adjust the link longer) - then the pintle would move toward the stern when turning starboard. I might also mount a short extension pushing the pintle back a little. But a long extension to make the rod directly from left to right is WAY too much lever arm and would limit the motion of the rudder when the motor reached its limit:









This is the port position. Here I need to be careful not to pivot the motor too far...









...due to close clearance between the shift lever (shown here in forward) and the starboard edge of the motor well:









In order to facilitate the use of the link I reduced the turning friction. As a result, when I tilt the motor it wants to flop to one side. Flopping to port makes it rest harmlessly against the helm seat and railing. There is a little bit of play in the motor housing seal which I plan to eliminate by using some self-adhesive weatherstrip material around the bottom edge of the housing:


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Very impressive! (better then bungies too!) Now.. if the controls were on the helm...


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

deniseO30 said:


> Very impressive! (better then bungies too!) Now.. if the controls were on the helm...


That is a huge job, and might require a different motor. The pull-pull cable pully system for the tiller/throttle does not look like it would readily convert to a push-pull linkage. I might talk to a dealer, but it's definitely not a DIY job, and I don't want to take the boat out of commission during the season. My wife has done a good job tending the throttle/transmission, so we'll continue with that for now. She bailed me out last time by throttling up at the perfect time to prevent us backing into the dock, so she's getting pretty good at it.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

RhythmDoctor said:


> ...Starboard motion is somewhat compromised by the parallax problem of having the link mounted diagonally. I could alleviate this somewhat by moving the pintle more toward port (and adjust the link longer) - then the pintle would move toward the stern when turning starboard. I might also mount a short extension pushing the pintle back a little...


I made this revision tonight. By relocating the pin in a way that the rod comes in tangential to its arc of rotation, it provides much more even rotation to both port and starboard - exactly what I was looking for. Increasing the rotation to starboard was very important because of the orientation of my slip, and it was also needed to negate some of the prop walk effect in the opposite direction. Unfortunately this evening there was still too much thunderstorm threat to take it out for a trial. Hopefully this weekend:


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Pretty slick! see you at 5pm at the deck? 

I'm having a dock party at my boat Sunday.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Lori and I will be there at 5!


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

We went out today - first chance to test the hard link. Current was pushing us out of the slip, so we idled in reverse to slowly coast out, then throttled up in reverse to back out of the marina. The boat responded extremely sensitively to any turning motion, even at slow speed. Because these Catalina boats do not have a full length keel, they provide a nice pivot point that helps maneuverability, so long as you have some sideways force from the rudder and/or linked motor.

It was a nervewracking "slow ballet," partly because over the past three weeks of inactivity I had really let the whole thing play games with my head. But the fact is, we maneuvered out of the slip, and between the big Chris Craft and other boats with their imposing bow sprits very easily without even the slightest problem. It would be a lot tougher without empty slips on both sides (since we started drifting sideways before fully out of the slip), but we'll see how long our luck holds out on that count.

Coming in to dock had never been a problem, but is even better now because we can do it slower. We no longer need high SOW to have turning ability - the motor pivot allows us to steer at much slower speed. So once we've crabbed past the "pinch points" in the diagram, we can immediately slow down to idle speed and back in more slowly.

There is one other huge benefit that I had hoped for but wanted to confirm. You can see from the messages above that we do a lot of backing up in close quarters, and I have to hold the wheel very tightly because the rudder is so badly balanced in reverse. If I let go of the wheel for a split second, the rudder would turn hard in whatever direction it wanted. But with the rudder linked to the motor, that no longer happens. The motor is very well balanced in reverse, and keeps the rudder steady. I can loosen my grip on the wheel, and even let go momentarily if I need to.

All in all a huge success!


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