# Trailer Sailors and Standing Headroom



## Arcb

I am looking to probably downsize to a smaller boat this spring. 

My primary motivation for downsizing is cruising range. I likely have another 20 years of employment to look forward to and currently only 4 week's vacation a year. I like the idea of exploring a lot of different places like Cape Breton Island, the North Channel and the Gulf of Mexico.

The problem is, my current cruising sailboat just isn't fast enough to reach any of those places in a two week vacation.

So, after two cruising sailboats over 30', I think I have figured out the best type of sailboat for my current sailing style is a trailer sailor.

I have already decided there is nothing under 20' that appeals to me. I have a wife and son and dog that come with me, so I would like a proper head and a galley.

I have narrowed my search down to 2 options a proper trailer sailor with swing keel such as a CS 22 or Catalina 22 or a semi trailerable boat that is trailerable but not ramp launchable, such as a Tanzer 26.

I currently lean towards the semi trailerable options like the Tanzer 26 due to them having standing headroom (at least the ones I would be interested in), however, by making that choice I am disallowing myself use of a lot of remote wilderness boat launches.

So my question is for those of you in cruising boats without standing headroom. How big of an inconvenience do you find not being able to stand upright in the cabin? Does it drive you crazy after a few days or a couple of weeks out cruising, or is it no big deal? I'm not looking for hard facts here, just mostly how people feel about cruising on this type of boat.

I am not worried about seaworthiness, I have owned and sailed to lively open boats in open water including a Fireball 17 and my current Prindle 16, so I am aware of a small boats limitations with regards to weather, I am mostly just interested in the liveability of the cabins for 2 or 3 weeks time?


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## Faster

Budget will, of course, make a difference.. but if you're talking sub-10K boats then it's a bit limited.

Our first and second boats (Shark 24 and Viking 28 - ironically both iconic Great Lakes boats, and we've always been on the West coast) had 5 feet headroom. We owned the Viking for 10 years as our son grew up, he first sailed on her at 18 days of age. A sweet sailing boat, and in reality, most of our time below was spent sitting or sleeping. At the galley, one stood in the companionway with infinite headroom. While we were much younger then, I don't recall a lot of complaining or 'wishing for more headroom' rather than more 'space'. 

Presently it's nice to be able to walk around upright, and to be able to dress without having to crouch, but still most of our time below is not spent standing except at the galley.

It may be more difficult going the other way (from having standing headroom to not) esp depending on your agility and fitness.

Downsizing is interesting on many fronts.. we moved, over the years, from 24 to 28 to 40, then decided to downsize to a 30. Going up was easy and amazing, but after over a decade with a 40 footer all the 30s seemed way too tight, and we ended up with our 35 footer which suits us still, yet another 12 years on.


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## paulinnanaimo

Have you considered a Seaward 25 or 26? They are pricey but should satisfy all of your requirements.


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## Arcb

paulinnanaimo said:


> Have you considered a Seaward 25 or 26? They are pricey but should satisfy all of Ayour requirements.


I have considered them, but I haven't seen any in my price range.

However, I would consider a swing in the 26-27 ft range, if I find something I like.

I'm expecting to be boat less by spring and I have already paid my deposit for my 2017 slip, so I don't want to take forever shopping for something, I would rather stick with something that is easily locally available on the great lakes. There are lots of 22' swing keels and 26-27 fixed keel cruisers available locally, so that's where my search is focused right now.


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## sesmith

Since we own a Seaward 25, I'll admit to being biased. I can say that it would probably fit your requirements well. It's roomy, seaworthy enough for the Great Lakes, and tows and launches fairly easily (so long as you have the vehicle for the job). A used Seaward 25 can be found for half the price of a used Seaward 26rk. Personally, I like the interior better on the 25, but the 26 has the retractable keel, and a stiffer mast step due to the keel trunk. It serves the 2 of us well for 2 or 3 weeks. Add a kid and dog to that...hmmm. That depends on the kid and the dog, I guess, but there is room.

I think a Catalina 22 would be claustrophobic for your intended use, but they are nice boats.

We've been up to the North Channel with a group of trailer sailors a couple of times. Catalina 25 and Oday 26, are not out of the question for this. I'm always amazed at the creative ways owners of these boats have come up with tricks for mast raising, etc. Hunter 260 is another good choice, especially if the water ballast would be important to you in getting the towing weight down some.

Here's a link to some of the boats that have trailered up to the North Channel to sail with the group:

Boat types that have cruised with us | Trailer/Sailors Association

BTW, there were 2 Catalina 25's (a wing keel and a swing keel) up there last summer, and an Oday 26 up there the year before.


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## captainmurph

There are really two issues here: Standing headroom (or near standing) and tow vehicle consideration.

They are related fairly closely and your most likely consideration is whether you have a suitable tow vehicle (3/4 ton pickup or van, preferably 4WD) that will give you the capacity to tow 5K to 7.5K safely. If your tow vehicle limits you to the typical 3.5K to 4.5K of a 22' boat, consider the Chrysler 22 as well as the Catalina 22, Oday 22/23.

If you can tow more, and won't really do much local trailer sailing, I'd go with a keel boat like a C&C 24/25, Cal 25, or others that typically can be trailered but must be launched with a travellift. You will have either standing headroom or just a tad short in any of these. And, the Cal 25 draws 4' and has standing headroom with the pop top up.

If you want ramp launchable, I'd give the Catalina 25 a heavy thumbs up. While they still have a swing keel and only draw about 18" with keel up, they are very roomy inside and, if you find one with a pop top, you will have standing headroom that parallels much bigger boats. Others in this class (but without pop-tops) include the Oday 25 and Chrysler 26. My son owned a Catalina 22 years ago and I had a Catalina 25 for many years. While the 22 was fun for lake sailing, it had neither the room nor the seaworthiness on the Great Lakes that the 25 had.


Unless you don't have a suitable tow vehicle, I'd stay clear of the 22/23 foot boats and go to 25/26.


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## Minnewaska

Everyone's different. However, with every day that goes by, creature comforts become more necessary than optional. Body parts have use-by dates.


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## Arcb

So much good information from everyone here. Sesmith, I enjoyed your link. Do Canadians participate as well?

Catainmurph, you are absolutely correct about my current tow vehicle being limited to 5000 lbs, sounds like a good excuse to buy a new truck 

Minnewaska, yes, I am definitely leaning towards standing headroom for the reasons you mention. 

The current front runner in my list is a Tanzer 26. It's reasonably fast, standing headroom, inexpensive, fixed keel and seaworthy, the design has made at least 8 Atlantic crossings that I am aware of (not to worry, I have no intention of doing this myself). Only has 1 through hull and only weighs 4900 lbs. But it is not ramp launchable. Which, along with its appearance, is the only point it has against it. Most of the time, whatever boat it is, would be docked at a local slip, I don't have the patience to step a mast every time I want to go sailing, it's really just the option to trailer maybe once or twice a year that I want.


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## sesmith

Arcb said:


> So much good information from everyone here. Sesmith, I enjoyed your link. Do Canadians participate as well?


Yes, it's a mixed group from both sides of the border. If you're into facebook, the web site for the group is morphing more into the facebook group....there's a link to it on the web site.

There's also Roy Eaton's cruiser's net facebook group (based in Little Current, On.) that has a lot of info on the North Channel:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/7572335285/


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## Jeff_H

I don't know how agile you are, but if you are thinking about staying out for longer periods of time, I would be less concerned about headroom and would lean towards boats with a bit more accommodations than a Catalina 22. Personally I would minimally look at boats with a permanent galley set up and a head that is not under the berths. 

If my budget was tight, I would look at some of the 1960's era keel/centerboard MORC rule boats like the Morgan 24/25, Dolphin 24, Sailmaster 22/23, Seafarer 22, and similar designs. These boats sail well in most conditions and have a bit more in the way of living accommodations than the trailerables that followed ,10 years later. 

If you have a bigger budget there are some neat dagger board with a bulb andboats like the Tripp 26. And if don't mind crane launching there are boats like Laser 28 that was designed to be trailerable and which has great accommodations for a boat of this size and performance. 

Jeff


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## RegisteredUser

I looked at trailer boats a long time ago and thought the Rhodes 22 looked like it offered a lot for its size.
Well thought out with inherent compromises. 
A small, weekend fart-around with a bit of comfort kinda thing. 
It's a niche boat and many people love them.

Compac also has boats in this market - quite a few with older and new models.

Pop-tops lend themselves to nice weekender camping trips.


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## Arcb

Jeff_H said:


> I don't know how agile you are, but if you are thinking about staying out for longer periods of time, I would be less concerned about headroom and would lean towards boats with a bit more accommodations than a Catalina 22. Personally I would minimally look at boats with a permanent galley set up and a head that is not under the berths.
> 
> If my budget was tight, I would look at some of the 1960's era keel/centerboard MORC rule boats like the Morgan 24/25, Dolphin 24, Sailmaster 22/23, Seafarer 22, and similar designs. These boats sail well in most conditions and have a bit more in the way of living accommodations than the trailerables that followed ,10 years later.
> 
> If you have a bigger budget there are some neat dagger board with a bulb andboats like the Tripp 26. And if don't mind crane launching there are boats like Laser 28 that was designed to be trailerable and which has great accommodations for a boat of this size and performance.
> 
> Jeff


Interesting outside the box suggestions.

I am reasonably nimble, early 40's, snowboarder, sail a beach cat, paddle class 3+ white water, was an RS in the CG until about 5 years ago. My wife is in her late 20's. But I agree a proper head with a door and a counter to cook on would make my sailing plans much more popular with Ms Arcb.

I think the Lazer 28 would be out of my price range, but there is one for sale nearby and I have always liked the looks of them. I don't like the 5' draft. Maybe I'll take a look.

I believe you work in the yacht construction industry. Have you had the opportunity to take a close look at the construction quality of Tanzer 26's? I have observed several of the 22's have pretty rough looking keels, but I haven't seen very many of the 26's out of the water.


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## Faster

Arcb said:


> ......
> 
> .......the construction quality of Tanzer 26's? I have observed several of the 22's have pretty rough looking keels, but I haven't seen very many of the 26's out of the water.


The Tanzer fixed keels are cast iron, and if not maintained WILL look pretty sad on the hard. Once prepped, sealed and maintained it's not such a big deal, the lead vs iron debate aside.

Agree that the Tanzers are rarely the 'prettiest girls at the dance' but they have a pretty good reputation for toughness - Canada wide, at least.

You'd need to do some research at the cost and availability of crane and travel lift launch facilities at your intended cruising areas.


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## Arcb

Faster said:


> Once prepped, sealed and maintained it's not such a big deal, the lead vs iron debate aside.


So, we are talking an afternoon with a wire wheel and some epoxy sealant once every 5 years (freshwater)?


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## SHNOOL

Jeff man you surprise me... you forgot my prior boat, the S2 7.9... ramp launchable anywhere, self righting without the keel down, and a nice 5' draft when you lower the 600lb daggerboard. Boat is as fast as a J24 (faster actually).. 1 person can raise the mast, some are inboards (nice little 9hp 1 cyl diesel yammie)... Well built and a good one can be had for about $10k (on a trailer).

The "standing headroom" isn't so much, its about 5'8" at best, but has either a real head or a big enclosed porta pottie head (depends on model)... V berth is huge. Pipe berths are decent. Boat handles well, and is built to last.

Only downside to the boat is it's not light at 4050lbs, realistically its more like 4700lbs (all up), you need areal tow vehicle to pull it (1500 pickup good idea with a V-8 or at least a proper tow package).

Draws 18" board up (rudder up)... 5' board down (rudder down).

I'm gonna shoot myself in the foot with this one... but a Starwind 27 also give nearly standing headroom, reasonably fast, deep draft (and shoal draft models), and deck stepped mast.

Oh a better boat to trailer than either of the above, and much nicer down below is an Oday 26, shoal/centerboard model. Again not really standing headroom, but a lot of boat for 26 feet, and still trailer launchable at 24" draft.


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## Towguy

So just a thought,why not have the boat you like at home and when you want to try different waters go where you want and rent one( bare boat?) with the price of fuel,trucks and the time that could be better spent sailing,enjoying yourself.i bet it may pencil out to be feasible..it would very much expand where you could go ,from Vancouver island to sea of coryez to caribean or the east coast...wherever. As an aside I have just just recently acquired a nice S2 7.9 so it intresting to hear about them( but ineed a mast for it). Seems a very well built boat


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## Jeff_H

Shnool,

I am losing my touch. I fear that I am no longer worthy of being curmudgeon at large. The S2 7.9 would be a near perfect choice. How could I forget? Then again how could you have sold yours? 

Jeff


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## Towguy

I would sell mine.as it's more boat Than I know how to sail..so far..and my c/l 16 is enough for most lakes here in alberta..and i don,t have time to get into racing.but it seems like a easy boat to trailer around for a 26 ish footer. But I think a minimum heavy 3/4 or better yet 1 ton to pull it around.....safety first


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## Waltthesalt

Bruce Kirby's Norwalk Island sharpies are pretty cool. One of the designs may have a pop top.


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## PBzeer

I can't really speak to how well it would do in your cruising area as I used it on lakes, but I could raise the mast and launch my Hunter 26 by myself (was in my 50's at the time). Used an S-10 Blazer to tow it (too small for anything but basically flat roads). With the canvas poptop (screen w/zip up transparent panels) you could stand at the galley (2 burner Origo alcohol stove and sink, hand pump w/water from 5gal container). It's a water ballast (as is the newer 260) boat with a swing keel and had an enclosed head w/porta-potty. The Catalina 250 is a similar boat as well.


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## Sal Paradise

I have a C22 and the wife and I camped with it on the Lake George Islands for a week last summer. The boat did the job, as in its like a huge dingy that you can fill with your gear. But then it is too full and not much room for you. If you know how to sail and handle a boat it can do more than you would think. But its just too small. We were always camped on various islands so we had that space and the boat got semi unpacked. Now as far as towing, rigging and launching it is relatively easy but still a minor workout and about 45 minutes of hard work to get ready on the ramp. 

I have considered a bigger trailor sailer and in theory it works but you would have even more trouble launching and rigging to get ready. Those boats are really relocatable boats. That is - if I moved it out to Newport, then it would be out there for a month or two say half the season. And if I moved it back then I'm not inclined to launch it more than one more time because it is such an ordeal. So I'd be back at my home port Kingston NY. In fact next summer I will probably do a split season with the boat in Long Island Sound and then either back in Kingston or possible Lake George. I know it will be hard sweaty work. 

With all that considered, including what my sweating laboring in the hot sun is worth, for what will realistically be 2-4 long weekends - renting a boat starts to look better and better.


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## TQA

A Catalina 22 with the pop top option is worth a look.

I cruised in one for two summers. Troon to Stornaway then Pula to Albania.

Taught me a lot about sailing and cruising.


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## Minnewaska

The nice thing about our little piece of floating waterfront property is that it can be relocated. Perhaps consider moving the boat you have and driving to it. I know folks that drive to Newport RI from Montreal.


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## Minnesail

My wife and I have stayed on our Catalina 22 for three days in a row and are planning a longer trip. We don't have the pop-top, but I haven't found the lack of standing headroom to be much of a problem. Putting on long pants can be a bit acrobatic if you don't have the hatch open.

We put boards across the settees and sleep across the cabin, it's quite roomy that way. There's a porta-potti in the v-berth behind a curtain. We use the rest of the v for storage.

It works great for us. Definitely camping, but very cozy and lots of fun.

However&#8230; If you add a child and a dog into the mix&#8230; I'm sure you could make it work but I don't think it'd be fun.

A Catalina 25 with a pop-top would be great for you! Enclosed head, standing headroom, definitely room for a couple and a child. However at 4500 lbs once you add the trailer you'd be pushing the weight limit for your tow vehicle.

Last year a friend of mine bought a Rhodes 22 that has been sailed extensively on Lake Superior. It would probably work for you. It's set up as a cruiser, even has pressure water if you can believe it. An enclosed head and a usable but compact galley.
The Rhodes 22 Reviewed


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## kwaltersmi

We started out on a Helms 25 swing keel, similar to the C22 and also with non-standing headroom. My back ached every morning and I couldn't wait to reach the cockpit to stretch and stand up straight. It was a fun, simple boat but I'll never be without standing headroom in any boat I plan to overnight on.

How about a trailer sailer with a pilothouse like the Kodiak Nimble? She's got 6'5" of headroom and plenty of protection from bugs and weather if you do plan to cruise the North Channel.

I just finished a round up of my favorite trailer sailers here. You might find a few others that could be suitable for your needs.


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## Arcb

Sal Paradise, if I read your post correctly, you tent camped on islands rather than staying on the boat. This is exactly the type of information I was looking for, some of the places and conditions I sail in would be far from ideal for tent camping, especially considering my Prindle 16, which I am not selling is a pretty good boat for this type of operation.

Minnewaska, things are already in motion with my 35. I really do want a smaller more nimble boat, I enjoyed my boat immensely as a live aboard, but she is a lot of boat for me to tack up wind through the 1000 Islands single handed, if I still lived near open water, I wouldn't consider selling her, but I am 90 miles upstream against the prevailing winds before I even reach Lake Ontario, so for me, right now, smaller is better, I may get a bigger boat again one day.

Minnesail, it sounds your experience is similar to Sal Paradise, if I read your post correctly, you see your C22 almost more as a large camp cruiser. This is making me think my idea of 26, 27 ft might be a little more comfortable for a couple weeks on board.

Kwaltersmi, those nimble arctics are really cool boats, they would be ideal for my home waters, but I think those flat sharpie hulls would not ride big steep great lakes seas very well. I will definitely read your article this evening, I enjoy them, they are well thought out and well researched.


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## zedboy

If there's any boat on your short list I'd want to be out in a 4' Lake Ontario chop in, it's the S2 7.9. But I wouldn't want to tow it thousands of km's, even with a big truck.

I think your answer is one of the pop-up MacGregor 25/26 (D or S only!) models. Half the towing weight.


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## Minnesail

Arcb said:


> Minnesail, it sounds your experience is similar to Sal Paradise, if I read your post correctly, you see your C22 almost more as a large camp cruiser. This is making me think my idea of 26, 27 ft might be a little more comfortable for a couple weeks on board.


Exactly. I could spend a few weeks by myself on my C22 (that sounds nice, now that I think about it) but it'd be pushing it for a couple and once you add a kid and a dog... Not enough boat.


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## kenr74

I really like our Chrysler 26. It is a lot of boat to haul and launch, but is doable. We spent just under 2 weeks in the North Channel this year with our family of 6 aboard. We live in southern Michigan, so we drove to Northern Michigan then crossed Lake Huron to the North Channel. We are thinking of visiting the Apostle Islands this year if we don't buy a bigger boat.


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## RegisteredUser

kenr74 said:


> I really like our Chrysler 26. It is a lot of boat to haul and launch, but is doable. We spent just under 2 weeks in the North Channel this year with our family of 6 aboard. We live in southern Michigan, so we drove to Northern Michigan then crossed Lake Huron to the North Channel. We are thinking of visiting the Apostle Islands this year if we don't buy a bigger boat.


Sounds like you might be ripe for 2-boat family adventures...
Put the older kids in another small boat.
I really like the camping aspect of small boats.
Lots of freedom...


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## Arcb

kenr74 said:


> I really like our Chrysler 26. It is a lot of boat to haul and launch, but is doable. We spent just under 2 weeks in the North Channel this year with our family of 6 aboard. We live in southern Michigan, so we drove to Northern Michigan then crossed Lake Huron to the North Channel. We are thinking of visiting the Apostle Islands this year if we don't buy a bigger boat.


That seems to be the concensus here, it is pretty reasonable to fit a family in a decent size 26 for cruising, but the swing keels really are more suitable for cruising as a couple or even as a single.

Their is a Chrysler 26 at my marina, I had never heard of one before, they look spacious from the outside, but I have never been aboard one.


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## kenr74

Arcb said:


> That seems to be the concensus here, it is pretty reasonable to fit a family in a decent size 26 for cruising, but the swing keels really are more suitable for cruising as a couple or even as a single.
> 
> Their is a Chrysler 26 at my marina, I had never heard of one before, they look spacious from the outside, but I have never been aboard one.


The Chrysler 26 came in a swing keel, and a fixed keel. Ours is a swing keel. With the swing keel up there is still a stub keel, which carries quite a bit of ballast for a trailer sailor.


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## SHNOOL

Jeff_H said:


> Shnool,
> 
> I am losing my touch. I fear that I am no longer worthy of being curmudgeon at large. The S2 7.9 would be a near perfect choice. How could I forget? Then again how could you have sold yours?
> 
> Jeff


Jeff, I'm not real sure why I sold mine either


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## Sal Paradise

Unlike other things, there is no " sweet spot" in this size problem. Too big to launch and too small to go anywhere. Or if there is a perfect size,I think it is pretty close to 23-24 feet. 

I find that sailing is one of those activities where saying something does not give you the feeling of what its like to do it. The rigging and launching of a 26 foot boat is going to be a real pain. Things get big and heavy real fast. 

For example, the swing keel on the C22 is 500 lbs. The swing keel on the C25 is 1500 lbs. And it uses the same hardware and lifting cable. That keel on its support beam on the trailer doesn't want to move and makes it hard to get off the trailer. Also, the mast of a C22 is aboout 70 lbs and the weight of a C25 mast is 150 lbs. And you are lifting the mast, with all the standing rigging and spreaders on it, on a wobbly deck and usually its been in the hot sun so the mast is 150 degrees and the sun is in your eyes as you look up at it. Iwo Jim style you stand the mast up and beg the guy in the bow to get the forestay on quickly. Then you have to carry and lift the 9.9 outboard which is 100 lbs. Carry it over to the boat and lift it up onto the bracket. My 5 HP merc is about 55 lbs and carrying it hurts my arm after about 100 feet. Then its time to dig out the boom. See where this is going? You haven't even backed the trailer in yet. You will need strong men to help you. Then go have fun!! This is supposed to be fun. LOL I usually have help and it still takes me nearly an hour. A sweaty stressful hour. 

I will say that I have the pop top and it does work miracles in terms of space and ventilation. The other thing I hate about the C22 is that my outboard is offset to port so in rough conditions on port tack the prop can come out of the water if the boat is really heeled over. I like to get the motor idling in forward and sail in. Sometimes trying to get in an inlet single handed in waves and wakes the prop is cavitating and things can get frustrating. I wish it were possible to mount the outboard on the centerline but the rudder is there.


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## Arcb

I totally agree with your assessment Sal Paradise, which is why I phrased my original question how I did. If I am going with a 26 or 27' boat, it will be a keel boat, because I don't want to rig something that size without a mast crane any way.

I rig my Prindle 16 each time I go sailing and even it's a pain. 

I think my search will be focused mostly on 26 to 27 ft locally built used keel boats that are light and narrow enough to be occasionally relocated behind a full size truck.


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## SHNOOL

26 feet LOA... 31 foot of mast... 1 person, 1 handed, here is how you do it. NO you don't want to do this EVERY time you sail, but is nice to know you CAN if you have to! Headroom is only 5'8" max.








Can you launch this in shallow water? YES (and Jeff did mention the Trip 26, same deal).








The 600lb daggerboard (keel) is raised and lowered with 4 wraps on a self-tailing winch


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## Faster

I tend to agree that that S2 pretty much ticks all your boxes, Arcb.

Wonder how hard it would be to find one near you?


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## jblumhorst

You might enjoy taking a look at a Corsair F-27 folding trimaran, designed by Ian Farrier. It's designed to be a high performance, trailerable, coastal cruiser. It's this would be more expensive than the monohulls already mentioned in this thread, but interesting.

The exterior is exceedingly spacious, including the the cockpit and on the nets, with plenty of room for 3-4 adults and a dog. It's easy going forward if you should want or need to. The draft is less than a foot with the rudder and dagger-board up. You can motor right up to the beach if you like. It's roomy enough inside, with stand up headroom at the galley, a private head, galley, etc. There's extra stowage in the floats and underneath the cckpit so it holds a surprising amount of gear even/ It's very easy to raise the mast and launch via ramp or crane. Most half ton trucks will tow it with ease. It's normal to see speeds over 10 knots in moderate winds.


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## Arcb

jblumhorst said:


> You might enjoy taking a look at a Corsair F-27 folding trimaran, designed by Ian Farrier. It's designed to be a high performance, trailerable, coastal cruiser. It's this would be more expensive than the monohulls already mentioned in this thread, but interesting.
> 
> The exterior is exceedingly spacious, including the the cockpit and on the nets, with plenty of room for 3-4 adults and a dog. It's easy going forward if you should want or need to. The draft is less than a foot with the rudder and dagger-board up. You can motor right up to the beach if you like. It's roomy enough inside, with stand up headroom at the galley, a private head, galley, etc. There's extra stowage in the floats and underneath the cckpit so it holds a surprising amount of gear even/ It's very easy to raise the mast and launch via ramp or crane. Most half ton trucks will tow it with ease. It's normal to see speeds over 10 knots in moderate winds.


Absolutely! A Tri would be a dream boat for me. I will likely do okay off the sale of my 35, but not that good. I have seen two Tris for sale on the lakes right now. $95000 and $44000.

My budget for this boat will only be about $20k cdn, but otherwise, both the Tri option and JeffH's Lazer 28 recommendation would be high on my list. If budget wasn't a factor...


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## Faster

1985 S2 7.9 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## Arcb

Faster said:


> 1985 S2 7.9 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


I saw this one after you and a couple of other guys recommended it.

There is one in Alexandria Bay NY, which is only a 40 minute drive for me, only $8100 USD too. I will investigate these options.


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## Minnesail

Faster said:


> 1985 S2 7.9 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com





Arcb said:


> I saw this one after you and a couple of other guys recommended it.


Since it's a thousand miles away you'd have to *really* want it, but on the off chance you are interested I'd be happy to check it out and take some pictures. It's a half hour drive for me, in a direction I'm often going anyway.


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## Arcb

Minnesail said:


> Since it's a thousand miles away you'd have to *really* want it, but on the off chance you are interested I'd be happy to check it out and take some pictures. It's a half hour drive for me, in a direction I'm often going anyway.


That's a fantastic offer, and from an experienced swing keel owner too (which I am not)!

Its way early yet, because I doubt any deals would be finalised on my current boat until late April. I owned two boats at the same time once before and I won't repeat that mistake :wink

I will keep an eye on it between now and then to see if it's price moves or if it sells.


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## Sal Paradise

Or give in to the obvious


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## fallard

Arcb said:


> So, we are talking an afternoon with a wire wheel and some epoxy sealant once every 5 years (freshwater)?
> .


Rather than a wire wheel, do it right and get the iron sandblasted ( to get to shiny metal in the pits). Try to do it on a dry day and immediately follow up with a build-up of something like Interlux 2000. That worked for me with a steel centerboard many years ago. After 5 years, the only area requiring touch up was where the keel was used as a depth sounder on a hard bottom (inadvertently, of course.)

I've used the wire wheel/wire brush technique on aluminum that sees salt water over the past 8-9 yrs and the epoxy system simply doesn't hold up when you don't get all the metal shiny.


----------



## Ajax_MD

I got one word for you: Mega.

MEGA 30 OD (C&C) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

The C&C Mega 30 was built to be trailerable. They're not everyone's cup of tea, but you might read up on it and see if it checks your boxes.
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/30mega/30megab4.htm


----------



## Arcb

I have discovered another model that may suit my wants very nicely. I know it's got some features that would not be appreciated by the real performance oriented guys, but that's okay, this boat is for taking my 3 y.o. son out sailing, if I want performance, I've got my Prindle.

It's another model of Tanzer, called a Tanzer 7.5 shoal keel. It's 25' has 5'8 headroom, a proper little galley with sink, running water and a 2 burner stove, a proper head with a door that closes, only 2'8" draft, private V-Birth with door.

The only one I have seen so far is in nice shape, trailer with electric breaks, dodger, Bimini, wheel steering (I know, I know, more to go wrong, but that's what it comes with), Self Furling Genoa, Spinnaker's and comes in about $15 000 under my budget, which translates to a lot of nice upgrades, solar, autopilot, etc etc.


----------



## Minnesail

fallard said:


> Rather than a wire wheel, do it right and get the iron sandblasted ( to get to shiny metal in the pits). Try to do it on a dry day and immediately follow up with a build-up of something like Interlux 2000. That worked for me with a steel centerboard many years ago. After 5 years, the only area requiring touch up was where the keel was used as a depth sounder on a hard bottom (inadvertently, of course.)
> 
> I've used the wire wheel/wire brush technique on aluminum that sees salt water over the past 8-9 yrs and the epoxy system simply doesn't hold up when you don't get all the metal shiny.


I'm sure it's better to get the keel sandblasted, but that wasn't in the picture for mine.

I sanded mine down as best I could using an electric drill and a couple different abrasive bits. Then I usedPettit Rustlok Steel Primer, and man, that stuff is the bomb. Wear a respirator, it's nasty, but it's a great steel primer.


----------



## zedboy

Arcb said:


> It's another model of Tanzer, called a Tanzer 7.5 shoal keel. It's 25' has 5'8 headroom, a proper little galley with sink, running water and a 2 burner stove, a proper head with a door that closes, only 2'8" draft, private V-Birth with door.


Sailed its big sister the 26. Good little boats.

Have you trailered anything this heavy before?


----------



## Arcb

zedboy said:


> Have you trailered anything this heavy before?


I have not, and I'm a little concerned about this aspect and my wife is a lot concerned.

I have trailered a fireball 17, a. Prindle 16, a 14 and 19' stink pot for duck hunting and fishing respectively, but nothing even closely resembling a 25' ballasted sailboat.


----------



## zedboy

Arcb said:


> I have not, and I'm a little concerned about this aspect and my wife is a lot concerned.
> 
> I have trailered a fireball 17, a. Prindle 16, a 14 and 19' stink pot for duck hunting and fishing respectively, but nothing even closely resembling a 25' ballasted sailboat.


Mmmm, yeah. I regularly did about 100-150km with my unknown weight wooden antiquity. Maybe 3000lbs + trailer? Various reasonably beefy tow vehicles. Doing 80 down the 407 (she didn't sit low on the trailer, wind was really an issue). Feeling the Ram 1500 long bed get jerked around all over. Not fun.

Trailering the Siren 17 was a joy.

I recommend something that sits low on the trailer. And something light, if you really want to do miles.


----------



## sesmith

It all comes down to the boat/trailer combination, how it's balanced, and the towing rig. Our Seaward 25 and trailer weigh between 6000 and 6500 lbs. I tow it with a Ford Expedition and weight distribution hitch (with built in anti-sway). Hardly know it's back there (until we fill with gas).


----------



## Sal Paradise

Arcb said:


> I have not, and I'm a little concerned about this aspect and my wife is a lot concerned.
> 
> I have trailered a fireball 17, a. Prindle 16, a 14 and 19' stink pot for duck hunting and fishing respectively, but nothing even closely resembling a 25' ballasted sailboat.


Towing heavy is just something you get used to, if you have the 3/4 ton truck this boat requires. If you can get past that, another way to look at these in betweener boats is you just bring them to a yard that has a crane and a yard guy to help you set it up. Pay the fees, its small potatoes for the misery it saves you. I'd even go pick up food while they set it up for me and got it into a slip. Then you only have to tension the rig, put the boom on and put the sails on. I still think of a boat such as that Tanzer as "relocatable" and I wouldn't want to move it more than twice in a season. But I do think its a good size.


----------



## SHNOOL

sesmith said:


> It all comes down to the boat/trailer combination, how it's balanced, and the towing rig. Our Seaward 25 and trailer we high between 6000 and 6500 lbs. I tow it with a Ford Expedition and weight distribution hitch (with built in anti-sway). Hardly know it's back there (until we fill with gas).


 THIS^

I tow this package frequently with live animals moving around in back... 4 of them about 1000lbs a piece (yes you can feel them moving around)... typically we'll be doing 65-75mph highway with the package... yes it has everything to do with how the trailer is setup.









I also traveled at 65mph with this, again no worries.
3200lbsish 









This is a picture (several) of my Capri 25 3500lbs, with trailer (another 1200lbs or so) what is that 4700lbs maybe going down the highway at 65mph. I got 14mpg doing 65 with the boat behind me headed to TN from PA... barely knew the boat was back there.








here is one of it from above on its trailer, YEP it sat that high, underbridge clearance was 11'4"









Then there was this boat/trailer combo, which I put at about 6000lbs all up. Typical speed on the highway was 65mph as well.









So yeah, find the right boat/trailer, and you'll not notice it... I'd add that have a bit of overkill in your tow vehicle helps.


----------



## fallard

Agree with others about knowing how to set up the trailer. 

Many years ago I picked up a boat and trailer I had just purchased. The boat, gear, and trailer were probably about 3700-3900 lbs and my tow vehicle was a 1 ton, 4WD pickup. The PO had towed this behind a smaller BMW (standard shift!) and had set it up with about 50# tongue weight. I hadn't towed anything before this and didn't know better. The trip home was worrisome, as the tow was very squirrelly--even on back roads, let alone a highway. I was relieved to make it home safely and had learned my lesson.


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## Minnesail

I have a heavyish trailer for my C22, so I'm guessing the boat, gear, and trailer are about 3500 lbs. I've towed it with a Jeep Liberty, an F150, and an F350.

The Jeep Liberty can handle it, power-wise, but it feels squirrelly. I just don't think the Jeep was designed with towing in mind.

The F150 is better, but you still definitely know you're towing something heavy.

With the F350 you couldn't even tell there was a boat back there. If anything it drove a bit better with the trailer attached.


----------



## Arcb

My current vehicle would be nowhere close to adequate. 

My plan would be to take a couple of years to get familiar with a boat and get her set up how I like before going on any long trips. For the first couple of years I would just tow my boat the 50 km or so on back roads from home to the boat yard, where I would have the boat travel lifted in/out and mast stepped by the yard. I would rent a 3/4 ton for those couple of trips a year. The boat would be sailed from my marina throughout the season.

Once I was happy with the boat and started to explore further afield, I would look into purchasing a tow vehicle.

This is my rough plan.


----------



## Minnesail

Arcb said:


> I would rent a 3/4 ton for those couple of trips a year. The boat would be sailed from my marina throughout the season.
> 
> Once I was happy with the boat and started to explore further afield, I would look into purchasing a tow vehicle.


If you need a truck for other reasons definitely get a truck, but if it's just for a tow vehicle I bet you'd find it would make more financial sense to rent.

I rented a truck three times last summer for a total of 10 days. The total cost was under $500. That wouldn't even cover registration and insurance for a truck, let alone depreciation and repairs.

(Note: I'm biased because I don't like pickups. I had to drive them for my summer job during college and I am done with them.)


----------



## Arcb

I agree Minnesail. I have priced 3/4 ton truck rentals in my area and they are not expensive. I would definitely put off buying a truck as long as I could.

I could probably make a truck work as a daily driver because I ride my motorcycle to work 6 months of the year, but given the expense of purchasing and operating a truck, I would rather avoid it if I can.


----------



## Sal Paradise

I towed my Cat 22 home with a U-haul truck last fall. It was a base Dodge Ram and it didn't even feel the boat behind it. Cost to bring my boat 20 miles was $70. I have a couple of friends with pickups but I am not going to bother one of them on a Saturday to save $70. I just bought a new F-150 ( joy!) but I have other things to use it for besides the boat.


----------



## Towguy

Well this thread has taken a turn into the world I understand..sailing I am learning and somtimes getting overwhelmed.but towing and trucks is my life..my c/l 16 boat was handled just fine by our jeep TJ wrangler the 4x4 being very important for boat ramps and beachs but my lately acquired S2 7.9 I woulnt to pull or launch with anything less than a HD 3/4 ton,preferably 1 ton. I will probally actually be using a dodge 5500 with a hydralic extendable boom( should make mast raising a snap even single handed)..Also I find to many people towing trailers just think in terms of having enough power to pull but you need to be able to stop,swerv and stay between the line when things go sideways sometimes literally ..wind,rain ,ice,..snow or some one cutting you off ...I see to many wrecks from unprepared people.just a few thoughts..


----------



## SHNOOL

Towguy.... is spot on... but wheelbase is king! We have a club member that regularly tows their Catalina 25 swing keel with a Chevy Tahoe... and they do great. My good friend and crew tows his Oday 26 centerboard with his 2500 van, which unfortunately is a 2WD, and the thing tows great, but slides on the ramp like it was ice.

That 7.9 would be towed fine with a long bed 1500, or 2500, no worries there (it'd only be iffy with a regular cab short bed). It helps to have the proper gearing, and the brakes working on the trailer correctly.

Again I'll pull out my horse trailer stuff... this is a picture of a gas 2500 pulling 11,000lbs (truck was rated to tow up to 13,800lbs). Yep, we hauled all over the East coast with that package until the wife decided we needed more then 3 horses (and 5 dogs)... so then we had to go to a dually and a bigger trailer  I'll admit that the truck worked hard on the 8% grade that was the last 7 miles home, we heated up the tranny pretty good with that (never overheated it though).


----------



## Minnesail

SHNOOL said:


> Towguy.... is spot on... but wheelbase is king!


Ahhh! That would explain the difference I noticed between a Jeep Liberty and an F150. Both weigh about the same and the Jeep is only a little less powered than the Ford, but the Jeep is three feet shorter. I think you're right, wheelbase is king.


----------



## StarToo

Hi
We sail a Lancer 28’ Shoal Draft (2’11”) 1982. 9.9 Four Stork( Mounted in hole in transom). Standing head room on a trailer w/ extendable hitch for launch ramp. See SailboatData.com look-up Lancer 28T MK5. Our boat needed a lot for repairs but you may find one cheep, trailer not so cheep.
SID/STAR TOO


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## Daveinet

Per the comments about sandblasting an iron keel vs wire wheel or sander, if the keel has anything more than just the slightest amount of surface rust, sandblasting is the only reasonable solution. I did mine last summer. Tried a grinder with a heavy wire wheel and it took forever. Bought a sand blaster from Horrible Freight, and was night and day faster. 

As far as trailerable boats, one that was not mentioned was a Benetau 235. Its trailer launchable with a fixed wing keel. 2.9' draft. It has stand up room and an enclosed head, no popup needed. The First 21/210/211/21.7 variants are also not bad for interior space, but you can not stand up in them.

If you look at a MEGA 30, check for soft spots in the deck. Its a light boat (4K lbs) for its size, which means sandwich construction. if not well maintained, water intrusion into the deck would rot the Balsa and the deck would become soft. Its repairable and several have done it, but can be a big job. 

S2 7.9 is on the + list. Only thing you may need to watch out for is that it is illegal to tow without a permit due to its 9 foot width. Most owners ignore that fact, but technically you could get busted if the officer was having a bad day. 

If you decide to go with a boat you can not stand up in, but like the idea of being able to plane up wind, an RL 24 would work. Cabin size is functional and pretty typical for a 24 ft boat. Super easy to launch, and beachable. Light weight, but will handle rough seas. It is Australia's favorite trailer sailor.


----------



## Towguy

Yes wheelbase makes a difference ,so does weight and proper set up suspension,my biggest truck is a full legal 50 ft and weighs 35000 lbs, also SHNOO ,you keep showing your stock trailer,and a very nice setup it is,but a 5th WHL or gooseneck is very different than a bumper hitch which I believe most boat trailers are,although it would work I haven't seen to many.a smaller truck cold handle way more weight..better balanced


----------



## Arcb

Regarding the Beneteau Wing keel, how do they handle in the muck and weeds?

I don't mind admitting that I can be pretty aggressive when navigating thin water if I know there is a soft bottom. This is partially a function of where I live and where I sail. 

Wing keels look to me like they have the potential to get more stuck than a swing, full or even fin keel, but I have never owned nor grounded a wing keel boat and have no first hand experience with this kind of keel.

This thread has been fantastic, I asked about headroom but so much more has been discussed.. Great stuff.


----------



## zedboy

StarToo said:


> We sail a Lancer 28' Shoal Draft


That is cheating - getting headroom by putting a step down into the keel. Pretty impressive considering the whole bloody thing only draws 3'.

Is there enough room "in there" to stand with feet athwartships when cooking in the "galley"? For two peoples' feet when they want to pass each other?


----------



## SHNOOL

zedboy said:


> That is cheating - getting headroom by putting a step down into the keel. Pretty impressive considering the whole bloody thing only draws 3'.
> 
> Is there enough room "in there" to stand with feet athwartships when cooking in the "galley"? For two peoples' feet when they want to pass each other?


Not really cheating, its a compromise game. You are looking for trailerable, and 6' standing headroom, Its really hard to do that and still have something ramp launchable. Think 4-5' of draft, with 6' of headroom... the package will be nearing height limits of roads, when you add in the additional amount of height of the road trailer. A club member has a Lancer 28 on a trailer for sale. It still sits considerably high on the trailer (because of the headroom).


----------



## SHNOOL

Towguy said:


> Yes wheelbase makes a difference ,so does weight and proper set up suspension,my biggest truck is a full legal 50 ft and weighs 35000 lbs, also SHNOO ,you keep showing your stock trailer,and a very nice setup it is,but a 5th WHL or gooseneck is very different than a bumper hitch which I believe most boat trailers are,although it would work I haven't seen to many.a smaller truck cold handle way more weight..better balanced


Towguy, wheelbase still makes a huge difference in how well something can tolerate mismanaged loads, even on the bumper. It's physics. It's harder for the tail to wag the dog if the dog is longer in proportion to the trailer (than a shorter dog). No question the more weight distributed forward the the less it can wag the dog. When things get too tongue heavy though, it makes the front of the tow vehicle light, and you are back to the same problem again (nose light)... The Goose/5th wheels merely move the weight forward of the rear axle to put weight also on the front axle as well.

I'm pretty sure we are saying the same things here, the setup of the tongue weight to GVW of the trailer needs to hit the right "percentage." Usually 10-20%. If you do that, then a trailer that is sized right will make even the largest boast "trailerable." None of this makes it easier to launch them.

Anything one might consider "trailerable" will definitely be tag-along (bumper hitch is a mis-nomer of course, these hitches are attached to the rear of the frame behind the axle, not the bumper).

If I might, the big names in trailers have all come up with solutions for trailer launching larger boats. I'm going to use a Traid trailer, because I really like what they've come up with...









Note the Keel guides?
The bow stop (with winch)?
Note the bow/keel roller (this rises the nose when the angle of the trailer is down, but the boat is flat with the water).
See the landing gear swivel wheels? This is so the tongue extender can be used (that pivots, it provides no vertical support, just lateral). 
The tongue extender is like 20'!
Also they used at least 6 poppets, that means you can drop one per side, and actually get the bottom painted!
Also note the ladder on the bow stop (wow again they thought of everything)
One that jephotog might appreciate, they extend the trailer on both sides (without frame) to the overall length of the boat, the boat does not disproportionately overhang the trailer (this means the lights are actually at the stern).
This is my own strong argument for buying a new trailer with my next boat 

I KNOW Loadmaster and other have done similar designs... I just use Triad because I think they really have a handle on this.


----------



## SHNOOL

Some close ups of their ramp launch kit... 








They make some pretty big boat trailers for ramp launching, by the way, this has full standing headroom! Its also about 10 feet wide and I'd not really wanna move it many times down the road. I should note that is not a swing keel, its a wing.


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## zedboy

SHNOOL said:


> Not really cheating, its a compromise game. You are looking for trailerable, and 6' standing headroom, Its really hard to do that and still have something ramp launchable.


It's probably one of the best solutions actually, and not far off another possible option (if you can find one): the rare CB Grampian 26, which also only draws 3'. The Grampian internal layout is similar: step up out of the low part of the hull into the dinette.

I think Bob once used the Lancer 28 and the "step-in keel" as an example of one of the few solutions to this problem.

I still think a light boat with a pop-top (and maybe even water ballast) is how I'd want to go, but I hear the class saying it can be done without pain with the right tow setup. I probably never had enough tongue weight on the 2-axle behemoth (and no super easy way to get more). And my most usual tow was a Nissan Pathfinder - good 4WD for the ramp, but not amazing wheelbase.

Personally happy to be going in the direction of "boat stays in water always" (and "water stays wet always"). Anyplace interesting you'd want to get to from here, you would sail to.


----------



## Minnesail

Hey, if you're going to use the "step down into the keel stub" thing to get standing headroom you should take a look at this:







sailboatdata.com
Standing headroom in a 22' boat 

There's one near me. Yes, it was made by a powerboat manufacturer. And yes, it sails like a slug. On the other hand, the owner uses that standing headroom to maintain a full wet bar and if you wave to him while you're overtaking he'll fix you a shot and hand it over in a dixie cup when you pass!

Different boats for different folks, this boat is perfect for his purpose.


----------



## Arcb

zedboy said:


> It's probably one of the best solutions actually, and not far off another possible option (if you can find one): the rare CB Grampian 26, which also only draws 3'. The Grampian internal layout is similar: step up out of the low part of the hull into the dinette.
> 
> I think Bob once used the Lancer 28 and the "step-in keel" as an example of one of the few solutions to this problem.
> 
> I still think a light boat with a pop-top (and maybe even water ballast) is how I'd want to go, but I hear the class saying it can be done without pain with the right tow setup. I probably never had enough tongue weight on the 2-axle behemoth (and no super easy way to get more). And my most usual tow was a Nissan Pathfinder - good 4WD for the ramp, but not amazing wheelbase.
> 
> Personally happy to be going in the direction of "boat stays in water always" (and "water stays wet always"). Anyplace interesting you'd want to get to from here, you would sail to.


Ya, or even the long fin keel G26 is an interesting option. They only draw 4' and weigh about 5000 lbs. So they could be trailer relocated.

They have 6' of headroom, they have a relatively low capsize ratio of 2.0, they have a SA/D of 17.89 and from what I have read are decent sailors. Plus they have a reasonable layout that can sleep 5. I only have one kid, but the flexibility to sleep extras is good, especially since both of his grandmother's like to come out sailing/stay on the boat a couple of long week ends a year.

The problem with them is their are a lot of pretty beat up ones really cheap on the market, so it might be hard to get your money back out of it if you wanted to resell.

I guess the plus of that, is if you buy one for $2500 you can customize it just how you want with new sails, new outboard and new electronics and still not spend all that much money.

In terms of going somewhere where the water stays wet, it's really not an option as I have another 15-20 years of working ahead of me and no intention of changing jobs.


----------



## Arcb

I have seen quite a few of these Bayfield 25's around. I didn't realize they are both trailer able and have an advertised 6' of headroom and a sub 3' draft for ramp launching and only weigh in at about 3500 lbs.

They have never been a boat that has appealed to me because I have always thought their proportions were a bit odd. However, when I look at those proportions from the perspective of a ramp launch able fixed keel sailboat they start to make a lot more sense. They are slow though. There is one in my area for sale complete with a tandem axle trailer and diesel inboard, I might check it out.

Bayfield 25 - Used Sailboat Market in Canada


----------



## Faster

Cute character boats, roomy for their size (esp when you consider they are really 23 footers if you don't count the 'bowsprit').

But you wouldn't want to have to do a long slog to weather in one. An S2 would literally sail double circles around it..


----------



## Arcb

Faster said:


> An S2 would literally sail double circles around it..


Ya, the S2 is 84 seconds on the mile faster, that is no joke, and I'm not that into cute or character boats, some reviews claim the Bayfield's have full keels, but it's not really a full keel, it's bolt on.

Still though, they would trailer well, take to bolt on upgrades well and would be great thin water gunk holing boats I think.

I am keeping my eye open for one of those S2 7.9's as well. From the photos I have seen online of the S2 7.9, the interior appears really unusable. Some how I can't see myself doing up bacon and eggs on a rainy day and spending the day chilling inside playing cards or whatever on that boat.The forward port galley in particular seems awkward.

I am not really sure I'd be happy with the Bayfield interior either though, it looks pretty cramped.

Edit: This boat I am looking for is really for gunkholing, and sheltered/inland/coastal waters cruising (in that order), she doesn't need to be fast.

If I want to go fast, I've got my Prindle, which I suspect would be a bit faster than the S2 in most conditions.


----------



## SHNOOL

My buddy has his 1979 Lancer 28 inboard diesel, wheel steering, roller furler on a trailer for sale if you are interested (that DOES sail well, and has standing headroom). 
PM me. Out of fear of sounding like I'm selling understand I get nothing out of this, he's just a good friend looking to upgrade to a Catalina 34.


----------



## Daveinet

Arcb said:


> Edit: This boat I am looking for is really for gunkholing, and sheltered/inland/coastal waters cruising (in that order), she doesn't need to be fast.
> 
> If I want to go fast, I've got my Prindle, which I suspect would be a bit faster than the S2 in most conditions.


From someone who went from a Hobie 14 to a monohull, too slow may drive you nuts.


----------



## Arcb

Daveinet said:


> From someone who went from a Hobie 14 to a monohull, too slow may drive you nuts.


Fortunately, my path is a little more complex than Prindle 16---> boxy trailer sailor, actually started out on a boat similar to those I'm looking at as a small kid, Dads Grampian 23 (I was young when he sold it though, about 9), then progressed through your normal white sail dinghy progression, Lazer 1 & 2's, Albacores, CL 16's etc, then bumbed around on the not for profit tall ship circuit for 4 or 5 years on about a half dozen schooners, brigantines, topsail schooners and brigs (which is where I think my patience for slow unco-operative boats comes from), then my first boat of my own was a Fireball, then a Grampian 30, then I got into the tallship circuit for a while again as a paid delivery skipper, then my Fantasia (which I think has a bit of an undeserved reputation for being slow- I can get her moving pretty well, she doesn't feel terribly fast, but she sure eats up miles), the Prindle I have only had for about 6 months, but I absolutely love sailing it.

But, having said that, I think you and Faster are correct, I think the Bayfield might be a little bit too slow for me.

I am however, trying to keep an open mind and not rule anything out that fits my general criteria without considering it carefully.


----------



## Arcb

Any one have thoughts on a Folkboat as a trailer sailor? They are under 4' draft, narrow beam, under 5000 lbs. I know they don't meet my criteria of headroom, but at least they have a semi private head (under the v-berth, you can close the curtain). From what I have read, they sail exceptionally well for a full keel boat.

More important than speed, for me, is I really like a boat with good sea keeping ability, that can take a licking and keep on ticking. I think I would be willing to sacrifice some headroom for a boat that is both fast and exceptionally sea worthy.

There are 2 for sale in my area, although the wood one is a truly beautiful boat, I think the glass one would be more practical.

25' Abbott Folkboat | sailboats | Sarnia | Kijiji

Nordic Folkboat | sailboats | Owen Sound | Kijiji


----------



## Daveinet

If you don't mind wood and glass, consider one of these:

1986 Trimaran Trailertri 720 sailboat for sale in California


----------



## Arcb

That tri looks pretty sweet.

I'm pretty sure I found something today, a guy I know is selling a nice Contessa 26, not ramp launchable, but trailerable, and a proper sailboat.

I was leaning towards a bigger more robust, better perforning boat all along, everybody's comments kind of agreed with that.

The Contessa won't let me keep up with a more modern design, but she will allow me to enter in a couple of the great lakes single handed "offshore" races and is comfortable enough for a family of 3 to do short cruises on.


----------



## seabeau

I've always liked the Chrysler 26, shallow draft with centerboard, standing headroom.


----------



## Sal Paradise

Yikes!!! Not something I would like to trailer or launch without a lot of help.










Close to 10,000 lbs all loaded up on the trailer, I suppose. That is no Cat 22. Good luck.


----------



## SHNOOL

This is 5000lbs, inboard diesel, standing headroom, wheel steering, roller furling... and easily launched from a trailer, deck stepped mast.


----------



## Arcb

The reason I think I'm going to end up with the Contessa is, I know the seller and know him to be a good sailor and meticulous about maintenance. The boat is in good shape and significantly upgraded including sails and new engine, the boat is at my marina, so no transportation costs or hassles.

I have been trying to find a boat that strikes a good balance. There are many boats that have been recommended that under the right circumstances would be a good fit. I think the lancer would definitely have more room and trailer better than a Contessa. The S2 would trailer better and be much faster.

I am moving down in size from a very heavy full keeled, very weatherly boat, so I think that might be why the Contessa speaks to me. She is basically a Folkboat clone with improved headroom and a new diesel inboard.

Here's a little clip of a single handed Folkboat heaving too in snotty conditions at 80 degrees north


----------



## abarth

Arcb,
I have a 'surplus' Bayfield 25 on a trailer that I regularly launch and retrieve.
I am in your neighbourhood.
Give me shout If you'd like to have look.


----------



## zedboy

Shnool,

New ride?


----------



## abarth

It seems I need a couple more posts to make a reply


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## abarth

And this should do it.


----------



## Faster

Arcb said:


> .......
> 
> Here's a little clip of a single handed Folkboat heaving too in snotty conditions at 80 degrees north
> 
> heavy weather at 80 north - YouTube


Nice little clip but that's no Folkboat... it's a 1984 Saxe 38 built in Norway. Hardly a trailerable! 

Here's a better look...


----------



## Daveinet

Arcb said:


> Here's a little clip of a single handed Folkboat heaving too in snotty conditions at 80 degrees north
> 
> heavy weather at 80 north - YouTube


That is a video I'm not sure I quite understand. If you look at the seas, there is only a few occasional white caps. That suggests the wind should not have been that strong, yet the boat is reefed and still heeled over a ton. Does that boat lack initial stability?


----------



## Arcb

Faster said:


> Nice little clip but that's no Folkboat...


Thanks for the correction! No, 38' wouldn't do. I googled folkboat heavy weather and this is the clip that came up. Immediately I thought-out I want one of them.

I thought the scale looked off, but I thought it was maybe a trick of the camera though.

This clears up some confusion for me, I have been talking back and forth with a lady who has a Folkboat for sale, and I have been trying to reconcile what she was telling me- specifically about the cockpit draining into the bilge, and what I saw in this video. This makes sense now.

Back to the drawing board.


----------



## Daveinet

I've heard of someone trailer launching and sailing a Tarten 27. Here is a pretty good description:
TARTAN 27: Classic Pocket Cruiser - boats.com

It does have a centerboard that swings out from the keel.


----------



## Faster

Arcb said:


> Thanks for the correction!


Well, I'm sure it had standing headroom!


----------



## Sal Paradise

"I am able to launch and rig my Cabo Rico 38 by myself in under an hour." LOL!!


----------



## SHNOOL

38 that's it? 65 on a trailer.. nope not mine. One of those few times I'd say, boy it'd be nice to own that Macgregor 








and


----------



## Arcb

Now we're getting somewhere. I've already got a boat with 7' of headroom I just need a trailer and a bigger car.


----------



## Arcb

I see a C&C 25 nearby with a dual axle trailer, 5'8" headroom. Good price, draft 3'9".

What surprised me is the Tanzer 26 stats indicate the Tanzer is 9 seconds on the mile faster than the C&C25. Their waterline length is nearly identical I'm a little surprised to see the Tanzer being faster, given C & C's reputation for being speedy.

I wonder if Tanzer 26's are a little under rated in the realm of public opinion, or if I'm missing something.


----------



## Faster

The Tanzer 26 is a great little boat, IMO a bit tougher than the C&C. I wouldn't be surprised if the Tanzer did a little better than the C&C on a stiff beat.

C&C, however, will always win the beauty contests... although the last Tanzer (the 31) is a C&C design.. don't think many were made.

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1440


----------



## Faster

Arcb said:


> This might come across as a bit of an uneducated question, but why?


We spent years racing casually in a small YC fleet in an area where we had frequent breezes 20K+..

Two boats that were surprisingly quick upwind in a breeze were a Tanzer 26 and a Grampian 26. They lost the battle off the wind, but it was always a surprise how well they did in those conditions. I wouldn't say that either was being sailed by an exceptional crew.. certainly competent but not upper echelon.


----------



## Sal Paradise

My dock mate is a Tanzer 22. The boat seems much more robust than my Catalina. And it goes home on a trailer every winter.

There are some easy to find articles about people sailing them to Bermuda.


----------



## Arcb

I agree, Tanzer 22's are proper boats. I had a dock neighbor that had one in Toronto, sometimes he would invite me out sailing.

I remember one trip in particular, we decided to sail over to Niagara on the Lake for lunch then back. A distance of about 52 miles (26 miles each way). Wind was north east about 15+ knots, which isn't the best case scenario on western Lake Ontario because there's about 150 miles of fetch in that direction. We had a great sail across- fast about 4 and a half hours. However, when we reached the Niagara Bar, the scene was messy.  The Niagara River is a pretty serious river and there is a big shallow sand bar at its mouth, about 4 miles out. A Northeast wind, blows contrary to the current and on this day the bar was pretty white. Steep 5-6 foot breaking waves every where, there were even some standing waves too. We couldn't run the engine because we couldn't keep it in the water, so we had to sail through miles of breakers. It was intense. The boat handled really well- we ended up taking the train back to Toronto and came back a couple of days later for the boat when the lake calmed down. Yes, I'm a big believer in Tanzer 22's.


----------



## Arcb

zedboy said:


> Which one? Big diff between S/D and M/X :wink
> 
> Met a couple of Newfies cruising a McG 22 on the Rideau Canal last summer. Obviously didn't see it under sail but toured the boat and it seemed solidly done for what it was. Perfectly sized for my 4-year-old and 2-year-old...


I'm going to answer you over here, so we don't hijack the other guys thread. It's an X. I was being pretty reluctant, but my wife REALLY likes them, so I figured no harm in going to see one.

I agree with you, they would be pretty good for the Rideau Canal, not just for the water ballast, shallow draft, easy tow ability, standing headroom, accommodations for 6 and rock bottom prices,but also the folding mast step for getting under the 40 some odd bridges.

I think I can find some keel boats that are pretty versatile for canaling too though, for example, I think a Bayfield would make a good canal boat. Draft of course is an issue on both the Rideau and Ottawa Rivers, so there are several shoal keel boats still on my list.

The boats ability to canal is worth considering, as I am a short walk to the Rideau Canal and a 60 km drive to the St Lawrence.


----------



## zedboy

Arcb said:


> It's an X. I was being pretty reluctant, but my wife REALLY likes them, so I figured no harm in going to see one.


Aagh, no, go find the S/D - similar impressive use of space within 26', but sailboats! Impressive 1600lb dry weight. Or even the old McG/Venture 24/25 - older dinette arrangement, but same pop-top interior otherwise (except for maybe theoretical under-cockpit berth...). Plenty of room for Mrs. + kid + pooch. Should also save yourself a bundle, there are for sure more of them than any other comparably sized boat in the world.

After selling my wood boat, I had a Siren 17 for a year. I think the build quality is similar, I wouldn't cross oceans in them but I never felt unsafe on the lake. I think I would do nasty Lake Ontario 4' chop in a 26'. Might slam a little harder than a real keelboat, might carry momentum through waves a little less well ... but might rise over a swell a little easier. Will be way faster off the wind.



Arcb said:


> I think a Bayfield would make a good canal boat.


Yeah, my slip neighbours for several years on Simcoe loved their 23/25. Dropped the stick and did a canal cruise every year.



Arcb said:


> The boats ability to canal is worth considering, as I am a short walk to the Rideau Canal and a 60 km drive to the St Lawrence.


Major. What are the rules for how long you can tie yourself up downtown? My wife grew up in the Glebe two blocks from the canal, but they primarily related to it as a skating rink.


----------



## Arcb

zedboy said:


> Aagh, no, go find the S/D - similar impressive use of space within 26', but sailboats! Impressive 1600lb dry weight.
> 
> Major. What are the rules for how long you can tie yourself up downtown? My wife grew up in the Glebe two blocks from the canal, but they primarily related to it as a skating rink.


We're just going to look at the water ballast one out of curiosity as much as anything I guess. It's a broker, so I'm not wasting any bodies time. I actually contacted him about a Tanzer 7.5 shoal keel, and he said come down and take a look, he has a bunch of boats on trailers- including the water ballasted one. I like looking at boats, I like seeing what's out there, so I can make accurate comparisons. I don't think there is much chance of me bringing one home...

I'm not sure what the rules are for down town. I live well south of the city in a farming community. There is decent sized marina at the edge of town, mostly all power boats of course. I also see some people that have put mooring balls out on the river too, which is kind of an appealing idea, free moorage. There is one big 85 foot power boat on a mooring near by, it looks kind of funny on such a small river, he even leaves it in over the winter.

I'll definitely stay on the St Lawrence this year, but the option to keep a boat so close to home is kind of appealing. Up river on the Ottawa, there are tons of boats on private moorings, but that wouldn't make sense for me, it's almost as far as the St Lawrence.


----------



## Towguy

I just watched a review on a benateu first 25,kinda looks like it would fit your parameters?? Too new,poor quality build,don't seem to be that expensive for a newer model , what's your thoughts??...Ralph


----------



## Arcb

I have never been aboard a Beneteau First 25, I just read a review on them. They look like nice boats. $70k US new, and my budget is no more than $20k CDN, so I doubt I could afford one.

I have been aboard a number of bigger Beneteaus. They seem like a lot of money for what you get, so I would definitely be careful about comparing comparable boats.


----------



## Arcb

I was down doing some maintenance on my bigger boat today, when I noticed 2 22 foot boats side by side and the light was perfect for me to examine the differences in their lines. One is a classic trailer sailor and one is a trailerable fin keel sailboat.

It was interesting comparing both boats out of the water and observing the compromises of each design.

The boat on the left is obviously a Tanzer 22, the boat on the right, I think is a Catalina 22, but I'm not sure.

If you ignore the deck, cabin top and coach house, the Tanzer hull actually has really beautiful classic lines in my opinion. She is a small boat though. I almost get the impression the designer thought he would build what he thought would be a good, fast, seaworthy boat and then figured out how to include accommodations.

The boat on the right is clearly much better for trailering and appears to have a fuller much more high volume hull, more spacious.

It was an interesting half hour of standing and comparing compromises.

I think I'm going to take a closer look at a few Tanzer 22's, they seem to start around $1200 CDN ($900 US) for a complete boat, $2500 with a trailer. It's only bout an 8th of my budget, but they seem like a really good, balanced option, except for the headroom.


----------



## Faster

Arcb said:


> .....I noticed 2 22 foot boats side by side and the light was perfect for me to examine the differences in their lines. One is a classic trailer sailor and one is a trailerable fin keel sailboat....
> 
> The boat on the left is obviously a Tanzer 22, the boat on the right, I think is a Catalina 22, but I'm not sure.
> 
> ..


The swing keeler might actually be a Sirius 21.. but hard to say with the snow.



> I almost get the impression the designer thought he would build what he thought would be a good, fast, seaworthy boat and then figured out how to include accommodations


.. unlike what they do today... build the accommodation and stretch a hull around that....


----------



## Arcb

I think you're right. I'm comparing images on Google and the bow on the swing keeler looks to plumb for a Catalina, and a Catalina sits higher on its trailer.


----------



## SHNOOL

Not a Catalina agreed.

For the record, now about compare the Tanzer 22 to a Capri 22... I'll wait.

How about this, the Capri 22 has much better lines than either. The fin keel model best yet. now look at a J22!

Love how we went from a standing headroom trailerable, to a Tanzer 22... Just saying. For the record, I offered up the only full standing headroom FULLY trailerable (8.5' beam, deck stepped mast) sailboat, with inboard, and wheel steering - that'd be the Lancer 28.


----------



## Arcb

I haven't ruled out the Lancer. I'm just being thorough.

The small J-boats seem to have very Spartan accommodations. I want to like them, but every single one I have seen has an interior that looks like a dungeon chamber for dwarves. I don't think I could make a small J boat work for cruising.


----------



## Towguy

The lancer 28 has the right beam size for traile ring but is a lot heavier than others you have mentioned,what about a tanzer 7.5 ? 8 ft beam a lot lighter one for sale on yacht world under 5 grand,Rochester N.Y. 
(I haven't figured out how to post a web site) sorry......Ralph


----------



## Arcb

Towguy, Tanzer 7.5 has been one of my number one boats on this search from day one. 

They're light weight at 3900 lbs, 8' beam, standing head room, respectable sailing characteristics, very clean interiors without a lot of wood or inboard engines to worry about, so they age well. They have a hinged mast system for easy raising and lowering.

The T7.5 came in two models, the deep fin with a kind of annoying 4' draft and a fixed shoal keel with 2'11". The shoal keel ones are hard to find and command more money, of course they are slower too though.

I have been watching the Tanzer you mentioned $5k including a trailer in Rochester, plus there are a couple others nearby to me. 

I think I would be able to tow one with a half ton?


----------



## SHNOOL

Weight isn't the killer in trailering, height ON trailer is... 
Tanzer 7.5 at 3900lbs displacement on a trailer.








Lancer 28 at 5000lbs displacement on a trailer.


----------



## Towguy

Arcb said:


> Towguy, Tanzer 7.5 has been one of my number one boats on this search from day one.
> 
> They're light weight at 3900 lbs, 8' beam, standing head room, respectable sailing characteristics, very clean interiors without a lot of wood or inboard engines to worry about, so they age well. They have a hinged mast system for easy raising and lowering.
> 
> The T7.5 came in two models, the deep fin with a kind of annoying 4' draft and a fixed shoal keel with 2'11". The shoal keel ones are hard to find and command more money, of course they are slower too though.
> 
> I have been watching the Tanzer you mentioned $5k including a trailer in Rochester, plus there are a couple others nearby to me.
> 
> I think I would be able to tow one with a half ton?


Ha I was going to look back at the thread today ,thought you had mentioned that one,looks good tho,reasonable price( but what do I know). Little far from you I think,but out west we just deal with distance....hope to haul my s2 7.9 out to comox on the island sometime,my son lives there,but that's after its all fixed up and I know sailing a bit better,should be good there.. I think a 3/4 ton would be better more solid less sway ,when things go sideways but we have already discussed this ..that boat (the tanzer 7.5)sits fairly hi on the trailer....crosswinds.. Ralph


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## Arcb

Faster said:


> The swing keeler might actually be a Sirius 21.. but hard to say with the snow.
> .


I was doing some reading on these boats today. I learned they are a positively bouyant hull. I didn't even realise this was a possibility with a keel boat,I thought it was the realm of catamarans. Then I learned some other trailer sailors have the same feature.

I've swamped my share of boats, sail, power and paddle powered, so I don't have any trouble imagining how useful this could be in a bad situation.

They're capable of 7' of headroom under the pop top too.


----------



## RegisteredUser

Arcb said:


> ....Then I learned some other trailer sailors have the same feature........


1980 General Boats Rhodes 22 sailboat for sale in North Carolina


----------



## Aswayze

This is not likely to be particularly useful advice but if you do happen to spot a Parker Dawson 26 or Midships 25 they are worth a looking at as well. I trailer sailor mine and did a two week trip up to the Apostle Islands with the girlfriend, her kid and my dog and did another trip to Kentucky lake with three guys aboard last fall. You have standing headroom in "the galley" which is a fairly small area but the layout of the boat does not really need much standing room. The cockpit tends to be the hang out spot and the two cabins on either side are roomy enough to live in without getting too awful cramped.

Mine has the inboard diesel which is quite handy and I have a full marine head tucked under one of the dinette cushions which is fine for me but less ideal for a group I am certain. The other common option was the head in the aft cabin which is likely a slightly better group layout.

I does not really "feel" like a big boat compared to say, for instance a Westerly Centaur (Should look at those too) but as my friends who cruise their Centaur point out, there is some value in having bunks that get to remain bunks during the day and having a space for your stuff that does not also have to be the dining room table.

It also rides reasonably low on he trailer and launches fairly easily for a boat it's size.

You can find an unreasonable hoard of pictures of mine on my Flickr Page here as well as an album of the original sales docs, another album of my buddy Stagg's Midships 25 (basically the same boat), and the trip albums for both the Apostles trip as well as the Kentucky Lake trip.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums


----------



## Towguy

Aswayze said:


> This is not likely to be particularly useful advice but if you do happen to spot a Parker Dawson 26 or Midships 25 they are worth a looking at as well. I trailer sailor mine and did a two week trip up to the Apostle Islands with the girlfriend, her kid and my dog and did another trip to Kentucky lake with three guys aboard last fall. You have standing headroom in "the galley" which is a fairly small area but the layout of the boat does not really need much standing room. The cockpit tends to be the hang out spot and the two cabins on either side are roomy enough to live in without getting too awful cramped.
> 
> Mine has the inboard diesel which is quite handy and I have a full marine head tucked under one of the dinette cushions which is fine for me but less ideal for a group I am certain. The other common option was the head in the aft cabin which is likely a slightly better group layout.
> 
> I does not really "feel" like a big boat compared to say, for instance a Westerly Centaur (Should look at those too) but as my friends who cruise their Centaur point out, there is some value in having bunks that get to remain bunks during the day and having a space for your stuff that does not also have to be the dining room table.
> 
> It also rides reasonably low on he trailer and launches fairly easily for a boat it's size.
> 
> You can find an unreasonable hoard of pictures of mine on my Flickr Page here as well as an album of the original sales docs, another album of my buddy Stagg's Midships 25 (basically the same boat), and the trip albums for both the Apostles trip as well as the Kentucky Lake trip.
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums


I also thought this sure sits low on trailer,and would be the ticket to sail around newfound land and such, don't know how it sails but sure looks interesting,..Ralph


----------



## zedboy

Arcb said:


> I was doing some reading on these boats [Sirius 21] today.
> [...]
> They're capable of 7' of headroom under the pop top too.


Sirius 21 - Used Sailboat Market in Canada

Toldja so?


----------



## Sal Paradise

https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/boa/6018879297.html


----------



## Arcb

That Seaforth is a unique looking boat. Apparently they were built by precision boat works starting in 1979. It doesn't look like any precision I have ever seen. I wonder what the design philosophy was. Edit: I wonder if she was intended as a practical motorsailor, along the lines of a Nimble Arctic. I can't imagine she'd sail to windward very well.

It might be my imagination, but to me she some how resembles a Great Lakes Fish Tug, which are pretty decent sea boats.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=lake...=IQuyWOWYC8m4jwTnhofQBw#imgrc=K6tSbkLgld6v-M:


----------



## Sal Paradise

Right? That boat needs a centerboard.


----------



## Sal Paradise

Hey man, I would really look into charter/ rentals for 35 foot monohulls.... It seems expensive until you really figure the total cost of keeping a boat, a truck, trailer etc...for something you will admittedly use two weeks a year. And imagine the bugs and misc cost of taking a boat off trailer storage and getting it ready for a two week voyage. A charter boat is likely to be bigger, heavier and more stable. Figure what a vacation house rental costs too and deduct that from the price, subtract all the costs including the dock costs and insurance and maintenance costs saved from selling your current boat and the charter boat is nearly free.


----------



## Arcb

∆∆∆ I'm flattered that you would like to see me go boat less on the beach 

You're right, I did say maximum 2 week cruising range, but I pay for a slip at the local marina and make many week end and evening sails. I entertain co workers, Freind's and family members pretty regularly on my boat for short 3 hour evening sails (although I expect fewer guests when I have a 21-24 foot boat). And there are local events I like to attend annually on the boat. Medevil festivals, reenactments, power boat races etc. So I use the boat a decent amount as a day sailor and weekender, but not very much cruising these days.

However, chartering is part of my plan. My current boat costs me about $5k a year in dockage and storage. 

I have calculated keeping a 24' boat in a slip at the same marina and storing it on a trailer in my yard in the winter will cost about $1900/year, resulting in $3100/year in savings. I can use that savings to do 10 days or so, every other year chartering in Turkey or Croatia or some other cool place.

Small boats just make so much sense for so many reasons.


----------



## SailorMaggie

Arcb said:


> I am looking to probably downsize to a smaller boat this spring.
> 
> My primary motivation for downsizing is cruising range. I likely have another 20 years of employment to look forward to and currently only 4 week's vacation a year. I like the idea of exploring a lot of different places like Cape Breton Island, the North Channel and the Gulf of Mexico.
> 
> The problem is, my current cruising sailboat just isn't fast enough to reach any of those places in a two week vacation.
> 
> So, after two cruising sailboats over 30', I think I have figured out the best type of sailboat for my current sailing style is a trailer sailor.
> 
> I have already decided there is nothing under 20' that appeals to me. I have a wife and son and dog that come with me, so I would like a proper head and a galley.
> 
> I have narrowed my search down to 2 options a proper trailer sailor with swing keel such as a CS 22 or Catalina 22 or a semi trailerable boat that is trailerable but not ramp launchable, such as a Tanzer 26.
> 
> I currently lean towards the semi trailerable options like the Tanzer 26 due to them having standing headroom (at least the ones I would be interested in), however, by making that choice I am disallowing myself use of a lot of remote wilderness boat launches.
> 
> So my question is for those of you in cruising boats without standing headroom. How big of an inconvenience do you find not being able to stand upright in the cabin? Does it drive you crazy after a few days or a couple of weeks out cruising, or is it no big deal? I'm not looking for hard facts here, just mostly how people feel about cruising on this type of boat.
> 
> I am not worried about seaworthiness, I have owned and sailed to lively open boats in open water including a Fireball 17 and my current Prindle 16, so I am aware of a small boats limitations with regards to weather, I am mostly just interested in the liveability of the cabins for 2 or 3 weeks time?


I Just bought a 20' Balboa swing keel last year. It has a cuddy cabin. I don't mind too much not standing up. I can stand up where the hatch is. I think Cals are very comparable to my boat. My boat was really inexpensive but I did gut it. So I basically have a new boat. I am putting a galley on either side of the hatch entry so I can stand at the galley and prepare meals. I think this will work out since I can't see sitting at the galley to prepare meals. I have not spent more than two nights on it at a time. I am planning on it for next summer though. Its a very cozy cabin. I can see having a very small dog but not a large one. Its cozy as it is for two people. If you are leaning towards a larger size then maybe that would be better. Mine is fully trailerable with a swing keel. I could take it to any ramp and put it in. I don't need to be hoisted in. I will have my boat on a lake at a slip so I won't be hopping to different lakes. I could but it is rather a task to step the mast. Not hard but a pain to do. Good luck.


----------



## krisscross

Arcb said:


> So my question is for those of you in cruising boats without standing headroom. How big of an inconvenience do you find not being able to stand upright in the cabin? Does it drive you crazy after a few days or a couple of weeks out cruising, or is it no big deal? I'm not looking for hard facts here, just mostly how people feel about cruising on this type of boat.


I sail a 20' Mirage with a small cabin the size of a larger pup tent. I can easily spend a week on a boat that way (and alone), usually on Pamlico Sound. It is definitely a lot more like camping than anything else. I would say it all depends on a person. I do not mind roughing it for a week or two but for other folks it is a torture.
I also have 18' Chrysler that I overnight on local lakes. Very tiny cabin but a joy to sail and easy to set up. I love sleeping in it. Almost like sleeping directly on water. I hear the slightest sounds.

It is all about you.


----------



## Arcb

An update, in case anyone is following along. The weather was finally warm enough this weekend in Ottawa to go and check out a bunch of boats (high of -9, windy, cold). I had kind of thought one of the old Tanzer models would work for me. 

We checked out a bunch of Tanzer 22's. These boats did not have standing headroom, however, we found the interiors were well laid out and even though they did not have standing head room, they had very comfortable sitting headroom, big V-Berths and nice little galleys. Each one we looked at had serious (in my opinion) structural issues. The first one was the best, but I noticed her deck was separating from the hull midships and I figured this must have been caused by some kind of external crushing force, the origins of which went undiscovered as there were no signs of collision on the exterior. I'm thinking she either fell off a cradle or was lifted in slings with no spreader bar. The next two were much worse, both with rotten bulkheads around the chain plates and one with 2 portholes bashed out and left open in a Canadian winter- no thanks.

The next we checked out were bigger boats (7.5 and 25), both were in excellent shape, but the interior layout was not to our likings (seriously, the 22's felt more spacious). We also checked out a newer Mac, which was falling apart, no obvious signs of damage, she just hadn't aged well- at all. I also checked out a CS22, which is very similar to a Catalina 22 but a bit beefier, we did like the layout, but storage was an issue.

The decision is far from made...


----------



## RegisteredUser

Considering the 'other people' you need to please.....will be the rubber band that keeps you on track (slapping you back to earth) and from going too emotional with an exciting new boat purchase.

I was all over Olsen 30s, Glander 33s and small Compacs during an insane period of mental wondering...talking about making no sense..

That rubber band....it's a good thing.


----------



## ColoGuy

Perhaps you have some expertise but my experience is that there is little difference between a 1 ton and a 3/4 ton. Slighter stiffer springs?

Diesels have a lot of pulling torque and are good for serious towing. But you will pay for the diesel motor though the resale value holds far better than gas.



Towguy said:


> I would sell mine.as it's more boat Than I know how to sail..so far..and my c/l 16 is enough for most lakes here in alberta..and i don,t have time to get into racing.but it seems like a easy boat to trailer around for a 26 ish footer. But I think a minimum heavy 3/4 or better yet 1 ton to pull it around.....safety first


----------



## RegisteredUser

3/4 ton is fine for smallish boats like this.
The reason for stepping up to 1 ton is to go dually, needing to cover long distances with serious weight behind you...very stable, takes the sway out...high speed mountain sweepers feel like you're in a 911...


----------



## ColoGuy

Aren't dually diesels getting close to $70,000 these days? Yes....they are excellent for towing....no question. If I had that kind of money, I might see if Paul Allen (Microsoft co-founder) wants to lease out his yacht with submarine.

3/4 ton is a pretty serious tow rig if properly equipped. It is the millions of 1/2 ton trucks constantly pulling three axle trailers that get some notice. Yes....they will do it. No....they were not made for it. 1/2 ton trucks are built for comfort and gas mileage and some sheets of plywood.

I've pulled some loads with my 3/4 ton that were somewhat beastly. Having a 488, it came with heavy duty stuff. Stuck some 37" Hummer tires on it with little ado other than trimming the front wheel wells. 

3/4 ton is night and day from 1/2 ton. 1 ton, sans dually, is not much different.


----------



## ColoGuy

Saying this now so I don't forget. A minivan with the premium tow package may be good. I think it was Home Depot that rates minivans at 6500 pounds and 1/2 ton trucks at 5000 pounds *IIRC*. This surprised me by the way.

Minivans are little beasts built to carry a lot of people and pull loads. They are, of course, modern station wagons. Station wagons used to be the go to vehicle for pulling largish trailers.

Low to the ground with a wide base, they are much safer than trucks in some ways. Mine also gets 24 mpg. I have pulled a lot of loads with it including a 9200' mountain pass. Nothing ever heated up at all.

Just something that may be worth considering. It is also possible that I got a wire crossed somewhere.

Just be prepared for the inevitable looks....and double check what I think I read.

Good trailer brakes are about the most important thing. Good brakes....good tires....reasonable speed. You know...

Stay away from I-25, close to Denver, Colorado. Demonically possessed drivers I swear. A fatality everyday in CO.



Minnesail said:


> If you need a truck for other reasons definitely get a truck, but if it's just for a tow vehicle I bet you'd find it would make more financial sense to rent.
> 
> I rented a truck three times last summer for a total of 10 days. The total cost was under $500. That wouldn't even cover registration and insurance for a truck, let alone depreciation and repairs.
> 
> (Note: I'm biased because I don't like pickups. I had to drive them for my summer job during college and I am done with them.)


----------



## twoshoes

Keep in mind that there's more to towing than just the model of truck you own. A late model F-150 for instance, can have a conventional tow rating as low as 5,000 lbs to north of 12,000 lbs depending on many options such as type of hitch, cab configuration, engine, suspension, axle ratios, stabilizer bars, sway control, auxiliary oil/transmisson coolers, etc. 

My '14 F-150 with the Max Tow package is rated up to 11,200 lbs, but max ratings, as with conventional towing on any truck including 3/4 and 1 tons "requires" a weight distributing hitch.

Even an F-350 dually as another example, without a WD hitch, is only rated to 8,500 lbs conventional towing.


----------



## ColoGuy

After slogging through 14 pages at Arcb's bequest, I want a da**ed certificate!

Did you ever get your boat Arcb? I seen you shifted gears a few times... Likely not as you were still looking three days ago.


----------



## Towguy

ColoGuy said:


> Aren't dually diesels getting close to $70,000 these days? Yes....they are excellent for towing....no question. If I had that kind of money, I might see if Paul Allen (Microsoft co-founder) wants to lease out his yacht with submarine.
> 
> 3/4 ton is a pretty serious tow rig if properly equipped. It is the millions of 1/2 ton trucks constantly pulling three axle trailers that get some notice. Yes....they will do it. No....they were not made for it. 1/2 ton trucks are built for comfort and gas mileage and some sheets of plywood.
> 
> I've pulled some loads with my 3/4 ton that were somewhat beastly. Having a 488, it came with heavy duty stuff. Stuck some 37" Hummer tires on it with little ado other than trimming the front wheel wells.
> 
> 3/4 ton is night and day from 1/2 ton. 1 ton, sans dually, is not much different.


actually the 70000 doller trucks are fully loaded ,with all bells and whistles,and could be 1/2 ton to a 2 tonIMO 1/2 tons with a turbo -6 are terribly overpriced when you can get a diesel ..say ram with a cummins for 30 to 40,000if you are after a good truck just not a look at me truck ,i got my 5500 dodge with diesel drivetrain ,for 38,000,but it is very base,crank windows and man locks...also as i said befor you cant beat a dually for stability when things go sidewaysif its a heavy,tall load,[that v-10] of yours uses way to much gas.. Ralph


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## Towguy

ColoGuy said:


> Saying this now so I don't forget. A minivan with the premium tow package may be good. I think it was Home Depot that rates minivans at 6500 pounds and 1/2 ton trucks at 5000 pounds *IIRC*. This surprised me by the way.
> 
> Minivans are little beasts built to carry a lot of people and pull loads. They are, of course, modern station wagons. Station wagons used to be the go to vehicle for pulling largish trailers.
> 
> Low to the ground with a wide base, they are much safer than trucks in some ways. Mine also gets 24 mpg. I have pulled a lot of loads with it including a 9200' mountain pass. Nothing ever heated up at all.
> 
> Just something that may be worth considering. It is also possible that I got a wire crossed somewhere.
> 
> Just be prepared for the inevitable looks....and double check what I think I read.
> 
> Good trailer brakes are about the most important thing. Good brakes....good tires....reasonable speed. You know...
> 
> Stay away from I-25, close to Denver, Colorado. Demonically possessed drivers I swear. A fatality everyday in CO.


in my opinion,as i often get to see what fails and what doesnt ...the only mini vans that were any good for towing were the astro/safari vans and the aerostars they were both rwd and basiclyhad the same drivetrain as a light pickup,,particularly the awd chev astro /gmc safari a low mile one is way underpriced ...but they still are not for heavy towing,....on apositive note saw some geese fly over today ...could it really be spring???...Ralph


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## Arcb

ColoGuy said:


> Did you ever get your boat Arcb?


Nothing yet. I still haven't found a boat with the right combination of compromises, comfort vs towability vs sailing performance vs seaworthiness vs condition vs cost.

I had my eye on a CB G26 a few days ago but it sold before I could even arrange a viewing.

If I don't find something I like by the end of April I might buy an inexpensive day sailor or weekender with a cabin as an interm boat while I continue to shop for a perfect boat.


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## ColoGuy

Good to know that new diesels may be had for $38,000 IIRC. Yes.....dually's are clearly the king of towing big loads. Funny thing though....it seems like I see a heck of a lot of 1/2 ton trucks pulling three axle trailers. The dually's seem popular with farmers and ranchers and horse trailers.

The 488 V-10 is good for nothing except for very hard work. Nothing phases it except for Colorado passes. If it had been ordered with better engine and transmission cooling, that would have been great. A pallet of cement hardly changes its posture. I can watch the gas gauge moving on mountain passes when under large load.....seems that way. Weighs a bit over 7000 empty according to the weigh station.



Towguy said:


> actually the 70000 doller trucks are fully loaded ,with all bells and whistles,and could be 1/2 ton to a 2 tonIMO 1/2 tons with a turbo -6 are terribly overpriced when you can get a diesel ..say ram with a cummins for 30 to 40,000if you are after a good truck just not a look at me truck ,i got my 5500 dodge with diesel drivetrain ,for 38,000,but it is very base,crank windows and man locks...also as i said befor you cant beat a dually for stability when things go sidewaysif its a heavy,tall load,[that v-10] of yours uses way to much gas.. Ralph


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## twoshoes

I know that diesel technology is more costly than gas, but I always found it funny that the diesel option for the same truck can be in the neighborhood of $10k.

"Oh no sir, perhaps you misunderstood. I don't want to by an additional spare engine, I just want to upgrade. Isn't there a credit for for the standard gas engine it comes with?"


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## ColoGuy

They will always charge what they can get away with. Watch Jeep Wranglers suddenly become better if the new Ford Bronco becomes a viable challenge. How about those $300 replacement keys....for anything with electronics in the fob?

Electronics are the where the breathtaking profit margins are. Want to be a neoplutocrat? Get a government contract and have the electronics made in China. Easypeasy. 

Neo just means new, it snazzes up the vocabulary. 

Yachts are increasingly loaded with electronics of course. Talk about some hypergiganto repair bills in 5-15 years... For the most part, knowing about possible collisions and auto-pilot seem like prudent investments.


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## RegisteredUser

1975 BAYFIELD BAYFIELD 25 sailboat for sale in Florida


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## RegisteredUser

...and you may find that a trailer boat isn't your cup of tea after all.
But if you buy a 'nice one' or one that's 'cheap', you should be able to move it on to somebody else with little pain.

An affordable and interesting experiment/adventure....


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## ColoGuy

Being on a slip is convenient for many. I tend to see that as a $400-$800 monthly expense.

Fine if you are able to use it a lot and can afford it. I like to squeeze dimes until they turn into quarters. Something like that.



RegisteredUser said:


> 1975 BAYFIELD BAYFIELD 25 sailboat for sale in Florida


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## RegisteredUser

ColoGuy said:


> Being on a slip is convenient for many. I tend to see that as a $400-$800 monthly expense.
> 
> Fine if you are able to use it a lot and can afford it. I like to squeeze dimes until they turn into quarters. Something like that.


Put the bong down...just for a minute...
Trailer included....


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## Arcb

ColoGuy said:


> Being on a slip is convenient for many. I tend to see that as a $400-$800 monthly expense.


Regardless of what boat I get I'll have a slip for her 6 months of the year. I work 4 days a week, which means the bulk of my sailing happens on week ends and evenings. I don't want to sacrifice 1 day in three to launching rigging and unrigging a boat.

A 25' boat for me at a good municipal Marina in the 1000 islands is $381/month CDN, so that's maybe $300 US. I could find much cheaper. Also, most of my sailing is done with my son who's two and a half, so he's more of a liability for mast stepping and launching than a help for the time being.

My concept for trailering is so I can take the boat to Cape Breton or Florida or where ever when I have a two or three week vacation and to save the time, cost and aggravation of winter storage on the hard. My current boat is $1900 to store for the winter plus it's a 35 minute drive each way to get anything done on it.

Registered User is right though, I (or my wife) might not even like a trailerable boat when the time comes, so resale and condition are definitely concerns.


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## RegisteredUser

Considering your location and ideas of possibly going to other locations, I immediately think about buying a boat in one of those far places...you drive down like mad max spending a few days dealing with whatever and getting it somewhat right and the wife flies in with zero stress (on her....
She flies back on return ticket after fun time, then you deal with the rest of it.
She's happy....


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## twoshoes

I was shopping for a trailer-sailer at first (a trailer-sailor is a guy or gal who sails trailers :wink) thinking I was going to park it in the back yard when not in use, but am glad I didn't. I wouldn't use it anywhere near as much if I had to step the mast and back it down a ramp rather than have it in a slip ready to go. Plus getting a non-trailerable boat allowed me to get one that was beamier and deeper keeled. My slip fee at $250 a month still stings a bit though.


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## ColoGuy

"$1900 to store for the winter." In Canada that equals about $10/day? Am I right?

Looking at a population map, it looks like Canadians are either trying to storm the US or just did enough to get out of the US. Props for burning our White House in 1812 though. We needed a hurricane to put the blaze down.

Canadians are famously nice people. Why is that? A Canadian reporting a stolen car to the police: "I'm sorry to bother you but my car has been stolen."



Arcb said:


> Regardless of what boat I get I'll have a slip for her 6 months of the year. I work 4 days a week, which means the bulk of my sailing happens on week ends and evenings. I don't want to sacrifice 1 day in three to launching rigging and unrigging a boat.
> 
> A 25' boat for me at a good municipal Marina in the 1000 islands is $381/month CDN, so that's maybe $300 US. I could find much cheaper. Also, most of my sailing is done with my son who's two and a half, so he's more of a liability for mast stepping and launching than a help for the time being.
> 
> My concept for trailering is so I can take the boat to Cape Breton or Florida or where ever when I have a two or three week vacation and to save the time, cost and aggravation of winter storage on the hard. My current boat is $1900 to store for the winter plus it's a 35 minute drive each way to get anything done on it.
> 
> Registered User is right though, I (or my wife) might not even like a trailerable boat when the time comes, so resale and condition are definitely concerns.


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## ColoGuy

Seems that my quoted slip fees are high. I've been looking in California and Florida because that is where the boats are.


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## twoshoes

Places that are saturated with boats like Florida are a great place to buy one at a bargain, but not so much to keep one at one.


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## RegisteredUser

twoshoes said:


> Places that are saturated with boats like Florida are a great place to buy one at a bargain, but not so much to keep one at one.


Indiantown used to be the go2 place for cheap storage.
Now it's further into Okeechobee like Belle Glade area.


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## Arcb

ColoGuy said:


> Looking at a population map, it looks like Canadians are either trying to storm the US or just did enough to get out of the US.


Close, when most of the settling occurred in my area (St Lawrence Valley and Lower Great Lakes), it was settled by immigrants fleeing the US. There was a losing side in the American revolution many of those who supported the crown or had fought for the wrong side did not stick around, they escaped to the nearest safe haven, basically, they stepped across the boarder into the nearest friendly country. These folks were called United Empire Loyalists. My ancestors had lived in the Hudson Valley but after American Revolution resettled in the St Lawrence valley around 1800. It seems in the last few months, this trend has been repeating itself, we're getting lots of people escaping North from the US right now. Of course, Canada was a favourite for conscientious objectors during the Vietnam war as well.

Here's an article:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...death-crossing-canadian-border-409737425.html


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## Tanski

twoshoes said:


> I was shopping for a trailer-sailer at first (a trailer-sailor is a guy or gal who sails trailers :wink) thinking I was going to park it in the back yard when not in use, but am glad I didn't. I wouldn't use it anywhere near as much if I had to step the mast and back it down a ramp rather than have it in a slip ready to go. Plus getting a non-trailerable boat allowed me to get one that was beamier and deeper keeled. My slip fee at $250 a month still stings a bit though.


Did this exact thing for a long time and it wore thin. After I got a small keelboat I rediscovered the love for sailing and use my boat so much more than I did the last few years of trailer sailing. Still don't own a big boat but it's big enough for a weeks cruising and a weekend/evening warrior lifestyle.
My little 25 footer gets more use than any other sailboat at my marina. I've never even seen the biggest boat there under sail!


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## ColoGuy

1) First wave of Canucks: "God save the King of England"
2) Second wave of Canucks: "Hell no, I ain't fightin' no jungle war in Vietnam."
3) Third wave of Canucks: "Just get me outta here" That was during the Bushbarian Reign of Terror. I was one looking at Canadian jobs and taking note of other Americans doing the same.
4) Fourth wave of Canucks: "Just get me outta here." These folks think that Trump is scary.

No wonder Canadians are so liberal? You keep getting our liberals. Anyway, America loves having Canada to the north. We get oil and wood and pats on the back. We have an idea and the Canadian government says, "Oui, oui monsieur." Canadians love to sell us wood and oil.

Its a great relationship.



Arcb said:


> Close, when most of the settling occurred in my area (St Lawrence Valley and Lower Great Lakes), it was settled by immigrants fleeing the US. There was a losing side in the American revolution many of those who supported the crown or had fought for the wrong side did not stick around, they escaped to the nearest safe haven, basically, they stepped across the boarder into the nearest friendly country. These folks were called United Empire Loyalists. My ancestors had lived in the Hudson Valley but after American Revolution resettled in the St Lawrence valley around 1800. It seems in the last few months, this trend has been repeating itself, we're getting lots of people escaping North from the US right now. Of course, Canada was a favourite for conscientious objectors during the Vietnam war as well.
> 
> Here's an article:
> Refugee nearly freezes to death crossing Canadian border - Winnipeg Free Press


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## Towguy

ColoGuy said:


> 1) First wave of Canucks: "God save the King of England"
> 2) Second wave of Canucks: "Hell no, I ain't fightin' no jungle war in Vietnam."
> 3) Third wave of Canucks: "Just get me outta here" That was during the Bushbarian Reign of Terror. I was one looking at Canadian jobs and taking note of other Americans doing the same.
> 4) Fourth wave of Canucks: "Just get me outta here." These folks think that Trump is scary.
> 
> No wonder Canadians are so liberal? You keep getting our liberals. Anyway, America loves having Canada to the north. We get oil and wood and pats on the back. We have an idea and the Canadian government says, "Oui, oui monsieur." Canadians love to sell us wood and oil.
> 
> Its a great relationship.


mmmm [much too polite to comment here] .....Ralph


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## Arcb

I got my trailer sailor and she definitely does not have standing headroom, I can sit upright easily though, but we saw her and instantly fell in love. She trailers easily behind my SUV and can be launched at my local boat ramp.

She is a Gaff head Cat rig with bilge boards. She might be a bit of a handful in stonger winds with a flat bottom, 8" draft, no ballast, a 6'3" beam and a sail area displacement ratio of just a hair over 30, but I think we're up to the task.

Here is a pic, more to follow when daylight returns, just pulled her home, I haven't even gotten her wet yet. She's a Bay Hen 21.


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## Faster

Cute!...


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## Arcb

I think she'll actually be a pretty capable little boat, provided I can keep her on her feet  I'm only sailing the lower lakes, 1000 islands, Rideau, Ottawa, Lake Champlain etc. Don't really need a sea going yacht for this neck of the woods.

She seems sturdy enough, should be decent in light airs, can pass under low bridges and my wife loves her, "I love her, there is nothing to clean" (not even a head).


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## Towguy

Neat little boat,looks like just the ticket for the river or canals and the bridges for sure,looks easy to put mast up and down.... Congrats. ........Ralph


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## Arcb

Here's a short video we shot in the drive way of the boat yesterday.


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## Faster

.. So.... Somebody has standing headroom! (for now)...

Nice find.


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## zedboy

But does it really have more room for your stuff than a Tanzer 22?

Or did you just buy it 'coz it's way prettier?

(and the Tanzer 22 is the good-looking one!)


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## Arcb

zedboy said:


> But does it really have more room for your stuff than a Tanzer 22?
> 
> Or did you just buy it 'coz it's way prettier?
> 
> (and the Tanzer 22 is the good-looking one!)


Definitely less space than a Tanzer 22. It works for me though. We don't often sail out of sight of land.

We definitely made some compromises in favour of trailerabilty, draft and ease of rigging.


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## RegisteredUser

Looks like a nice weekend camper.
Walk to shore...snug in tight...push it around as needed....
Sweet


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## StarwindMango

Great choice! I've always admired those boats, but never sailed one. Report back and let us know how she sails- I would imagine she's pretty lively. Don't think you could find a boat much more easily trailered and a mast more easily stepped than that. Well done!


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## Arcb

Picked her up Friday, we had to spend some time getting her ready to go. Basically a trip to Canadian Tire for a safety kit, reading the owners manual and putting together the Gaff rig (which took me a while), plus licencing and insurance for the trailer. By Monday we were ready for a shake down cruise. It was a beautiful sail, with sandwiches, juice boxes and some nap time for some of my smaller crew.

When we reached the boat ramp, we discovered the docks were not yet installed for the season, so I walked her around to a beach to load my motley crew (I was wearing a dry suit). The winds were up and down quite a bit and shifty. I made some minor rigging errors, but generally the boat sailed very well and was incredibly stable in gusts. Like really stable. The weather was pretty cold, single digits Celsius, so we only stayed out for a few hours. Top speed we hit was 3.5 knots, I think on open water she could move quite a bit faster, but the engine well does seem to create considerable drag.

I was generally very very impressed, the winding Rideau river does not make for easy sailing and is very shallow. I took a few clips with my camera, but I was mostly focused on figuring things out and eating my sandwiches.


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## Sal Paradise

Looks easy to rig. No stays? Wow, that is easy. Its sort of like a giant sunfish, which is a compliment.


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## SHNOOL

I'm still trying to wrap my head around a post in "Cruising & Liveaboard Forum," with a topic of "Trailer Sailors and Standing Headroom," and we wound up with a cat rigged Bay Hen... which by the way is one of the neatest little trailer cruisers I've seen, but wow did YOU wind up off the mark!

I'd almost argue the topic should be changed to "buying and selling" and the subject should be changed to "Help me find the right trailerable for x."

Still a sweet looking boat.


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## Faster

Nice...

Is the leach hollow enough for no battens? In the first shot it looked like some battens would help, but the simplicity is appealing.

Pretty nice day for a first trial.


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## Arcb

Sal Paradise said:


> Looks easy to rig. No stays? Wow, that is easy. Its sort of like a giant sunfish, which is a compliment.


Yes, unstayed, very easy to rig, and my early observations are the rig seems flexible enough to spill some wind in gusts, so the boat doesn't seem to heel alarmingly. So far I'm a big fan of the rig, unstayed seems popular on camp cruisers.



SHNOOL said:


> I'm still trying to wrap my head around a post in "Cruising & Liveaboard Forum," with a topic of "Trailer Sailors and Standing Headroom," and we wound up with a cat rigged Bay Hen... which by the way is one of the neatest little trailer cruisers I've seen, but wow did YOU wind up off the mark!
> 
> I'd almost argue the topic should be changed to "buying and selling" and the subject should be changed to "Help me find the right trailerable for x."
> 
> Still a sweet looking boat.


Yes, maybe I should have put it in "buying and selling", aside from that though, it stayed more or less on topic, I was trying to figure out if I really needed headroom or if I could live without it. Too many compromises for standing headroom in a trailer sailor for us, so we decided we could live without it 



Faster said:


> Nice...
> 
> Is the leach hollow enough for no battens? In the first shot it looked like some battens would help, but the simplicity is appealing.
> 
> Pretty nice day for a first trial.


I'm not sure about battens, I'll look into it. I think I had a few issues going on with sail shape, especially in that first shot. I was able to improve sail shape significantly by tightening up my peak halyard, but in addition to that, I didn't do a very good job with the sail lacing, I think I need to do some more reading on the subject.


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## Skipper Dan

seabeau said:


> I've always liked the Chrysler 26, shallow draft with centerboard, standing headroom.


The 26 has a swing keel as yes it is a nice boat. Because it has a stub keel you can sail it both shoal draft and deep. lots of room for a 26' boat.


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## Arcb

I have been working on my camping set up


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## StarwindMango

Nice video! Looks like a nice place to spend a weekend. I'm always interested to see what other trailer sailors are doing to set their boat up for cruising.

You may have already posted this, but what's your electrical setup on the boat?


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## Arcb

There's no electrical system. Just the little kerosene lamp. The nav lights take AA batteries.


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## SV Dayenu

We have a Chrysler 26'... LOVE it! It's our second one.
When we got ours, we took it up to a lake to "test-live" in it for a month! We LOVED it... LOTS of space, headroom etc....

Getting her ready for a one month trip to the San Juan Islands beginning in July...

Of course, LOTS of upgrading and re-fitting... New custom built bow roller for a 25# Mantus. Adding 200watts of solar and a bunch of other items... Just recieved a promariner 2 bank charge this morning via UPS! =D 

I LOVE when "boat stuff" arrives at our door! LOL!

Richard


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## SV Dayenu

just realized that the "issue" of this thread was standing headroom!

6'+ in most of the main cabin.

Here are some pics.


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## Arcb

I haven't updated this thread in a while. We have been making out really well with our trailer sailer without standing head room. We've done a bit of day sailing, a bit of week ending and some pretty good multi week cruising. I have stayed alone on the boat for a couple of week ends, only once has the whole family spent the night on the boat. Our habit has been to bring out tent, spend the days on the boat voyaging and spent the nights finding a piece of shoreline to tent camp on. Some times paid camping, some times just pitching a tent on undeveloped shore line. They both have been working well.

Here's a look at what a day of voyaging in Eastern Ontario looks like:


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## dadio917

We had an o'day 25 for a number of years in the south Peugeot sound, Columbia river, lake Tahoe and SF bay. a bit of a beast to tow and took 3 hours to rig since we never added a proper mast raising system. But she was comfortable to be on and we sailed her in some pretty nasty weather double reefed with a napkin up front. Ours was the shoal keel (4500 pounds) centerboard model so we only needed 28" to launch or beach. Had many happy multi week trips on her. The older o'days were built pretty well.


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## David Chin

Sal Paradise said:


> I wish it were possible to mount the outboard on the centerline but the rudder is there.


Sorry I come to the party so late; but please don't give up hope. My previous boat has a centre mounted outboard, located in a well ahead of the rudder. Normally the ob is not visible at all. I like it that way because while towing there is no ugly ob hanging on the transom.


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