# Washington State - Sailing? Living?



## Bruce_L (Jun 19, 2012)

I am entertaining a move to Washington State... Coastal area for sure... 

Curious about sailing conditions there year round... 

Hear all this stuff about endless rainy days too... 

Want some general input about living there too... Friendly people??? Local Marinas you like??? High taxes???? Unemployment??? Whatever...

Value your input... Wikipedia can only go so far on the topic!!!

Finally tired of the brutal summer heat and hurricanes here in the south...

Look forward to some good information here. Thanks. Bruce


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## benesailor (Dec 27, 2012)

This ought to be interesting. Moving from Miss to Wash? That's like two opposite ends of the universe.
I don't know enough about Washington State to give you an appropriate/accurate picture. Just have my own biased opinions.


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## Dave_E (Aug 7, 2013)

Bruce,

I will send you a PM. I have lived here for 24 years. Can tell you anything you want to know. 

Dave


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Bruce_L said:


> Curious about sailing conditions there year round...


Year round sailing is possible, but there are a couple of months that are chilly. I've gone sailing at least once per week in all of 2013, and it looks like I'll finish out the year the same way.

Today is a very typical winter weather forecast:
"A 30 percent chance of rain after 10am. Patchy fog before 10am. Otherwise, cloudy, with a high near 48. South wind 10 to 14 mph."

Looks like great sailing weather to me.



Bruce_L said:


> Hear all this stuff about endless rainy days too...


Endless grey is more accurate than endless rain. There can be long periods without seeing much blue sky. It rarely rains all day or rains heavily, but the winter is quite damp.



Bruce_L said:


> Want some general input about living there too... Friendly people??? Local Marinas you like??? High taxes???? Unemployment??? Whatever...


I've lived in Seattle for almost 20 years.

I love it out here. I don't think there is anywhere else in the country that has the mix of a good/urban/modern city (Seattle), mountains, ocean, and tons of protected waters. In my profession (software engineering) there is basically negative unemployment, but that can vary a lot depending on your job. If you are a machinist you would want to read about the current going ons with Boeing (not looking good) before moving here.

I've found it pretty easy to make friends. There is a good culture here of DIY which makes it either to find partners in my hobbies of sailing, working on boats, building bicycle frames and riding bikes, fixing up my house, dabbling in electronics, sewing and photography. There are probably less than 100 hobbyist bicycle frame builders in the US, but I know of more than 10 in Seattle.

There is great food culture here, but it's all very casual. In the best restaurants in the city or even at the symphony you'll see people wearing jeans and a nice sweater instead of a suit. That also works for me.

You asked about taxes. It's hard to answer without having this banished to the politics forum, but I can answer with the facts. There is no state income tax, there is fairly high sales tax and fairly low property tax. Vehicle registration taxes are tiny, almost a joke. Without getting into politics I will say that our tax system is not one that works well for the state in a down economy.

I keep my boat at Shilshole Marina in Seattle. This is a huge marina (somewhere around 1000 slips), and most of it is sailboats. Even in the middle of winter there are almost always boats out or people working on boats. There are 4 or 5 liveaboards on my dock (90 slips) and that keeps it active too. The marina is very clean and generally well maintained. I like it there. Moorage fees seem to be about average for the country, a 30' slip is about $300/mo.

There are much cheaper slips to be found on the inland lakes. I used to pay $175/mo for a 25' space on a linear dock. However you have to go through the locks to get anywhere, and that gets really old. On the other hand the Duck Dodge race on Lake Union is a huge amount of fun.

Moorage prices go down as you get farther from Seattle and you can probably find $200/mo 30' slips elsewhere on the sound.

The sound is full of wildlife. We see porpoises at least 50% of the time that we sail, seals and sea lions every time, and orca whales a few times a year. Herons, sea stars, salmon are all common sights. This is directly out of Shilshole marina, going north to the San Juans makes it even better.

Seattle is a great city, I've spent a lot of time traveling and there is no where else in the US that I'd prefer to live.

There are some downsides to this area.

The culture here is very car centric and the suburbs are deep (especially to the east, north, and south). If you are into hiking, mountain biking, or skiing plan on an hours drive from Seattle to the trails. If you live closer to the trails then count on a drive to do anything basic like buying groceries.

The road infrastructure depends heavily on bridges (look at the quantity of water) and bridges typically don't get replaced until they are about to fail. The infrastructure of the state is generally in bad condition and there aren't a lot of resources to make things better.

Housing is relatively expensive compared to most of the country.

The grey days do get annoying by the end of the winter. On the other hand the summers here are amazing, with highs that rarely break 80 and clear blue sky for months at a time. I took this last summer off of work and had a 9 week period with only one day of rain in the middle of it.

At this time of year it gets dark around 4:15.  I find that harder than the grey.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Alex's post generally sums it up. I'll add my two cents worth. I've lived here since 1953 (not a native, I was two at the time). Western WA isn't for everyone, you can get wet spells that last 90 days straight, but that is highly unusual (that doesn't make it any more fun when you are living through it). You can also get summers that never seem to warm up, with frequent rains. We also get at least a couple of major blows in the fall/winter season that can topple trees and disrupt power for several days. When we get snow it is usually wet and sloppy, and often disappears by noon, but once in awhile we get a blast of Arctic cold that sends the temps into the teens and the snow and ice stick around for a couple of weeks. With practically no level ground anywhere, and most people unfamiliar and unprepared, every snow event results in total chaos on the roads. 
The good news is that on average the weather is mild year round and most people use their boats year round. The summer winds are flukey, with spring and fall the most consistent. The cruising possibilities are endless, literally a lifetimes worth of exploring available, and almost all of it is in protected waters (Olympia, WA to Glacier Bay, AK).
The politics here can only be described as BLUE. I won't say any more. 
WA usually seems to get through recessions better than most places in the country, even more so now that Boeing isn't the only game in town. 
There are large variations in micro climates in western WA. Seattle gets around 35" of precip per year while Sequim on the Olympic Peninsula only gets about 10" and the San Juan Islands are also pretty dry, so you can almost pick your climate (depending of course on where you need to locate for work).
I'm a lifer, I've traveled around and haven't seen anywhere else I'd rather be (although the Bahamas at this time of year has a definite appeal)


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## Unkle Toad (May 11, 2013)

well Alex and jrd have pretty much said it all. I have spent most of my life in the pacific northwest. I am in the south sound Olympia and the wind tends to be kind of light. we have a lot of days in the 4 to 6 knt range. but there is almost always enought to get out relax with some friends and let the gusts blow you around a little. In olympia there is a lot of good food oportunities but the live music is seriously lacking seattle is pretty close hour and a bit drive so I get up there. 

I have done some travel in my life and you can not beat the pacific norhtwest for people. you meet someone and the next day they are inviting you up to look at their boat because they have something installed you were wondering aobut(thank you alex) or they invite you to a family bbq because they know you dont know anyone. 

all in all I love it I will leave again and I will come back afterwards.


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

Lived out here for about 24 years. From the northeast originally. Unlie back east we have a maritime climate meaning our weather comes off the ocean so it doesn't get too hot or cold. We have grey winters but mostly in the 40s. Rare to have suatained hard freezes so people keep boats mostly in water. In the spring and fall we have unsettled weather. Sorta' squally not hurricane. This is because the jet stream is moving either south or north and we're in the transition zone. It can set up in late spring so we have a California like summer. Clear skies warm 70s weather no humidity. The latter's mostly due to the weather coming over mountains getting the moisture squeezed out. Last summer was clear spring till fall. We can get cool grey summers if the jet stream doesn't set up far enough north. Strong summer winds come mostly from the sub tropical Pacific air... Pineapple express which brings rain with the warmer winds. We can have flat wind clear summers with lots of motoring. The fall is a good boating time. Lee Chesneau says that because of the mountains and maritime influence we have the best weather in the country. He usually gives seminars at the major boat shows and you could ask his opinion.
Water here is deep and cold, 40s to 50s year round., with 9 ft tides. I live across Puget sound from Seattle, semi rural lotsa hiking and the like nearby. We take ferries to get across. Housing and marina fees are lots less here. I pay $165 per month for a 29 ft boat. Most marinas outside the cities are run by publicly operated Port Districts. These tend to have less amenities that the bigger east coast marinas. Port Townsend is a center for classic boats and wood boat culture. Their annual Wood Boat festival i think is as good as any in the nation including Mystic. Their Port has a lot of marine trades with experts in thier field e.g. Brian Toss for rigging. Wood boat magazine would articles on this.
We have micro climates and weather depends a lot on how close to the water you live and how high up. People are friendly. In the cities probably less so than in rural areas. Locals say there's Seattle and the rest of Washington. The Seattle/Snohimish counties are a mix of people who moved here whereas elsewhere there's more of the normal Washing culture and more western attitudes. 
Employment depends on what you do. Boeing is the biggest employer then there's outfits like Microsoft and Amazon.
No income tax. Sales and property taxes make up the revenue. This results in a number of taxes for specific purposes rather than one tax and a big general fund. WA politics are no different than elsewhere.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

I sailed away from Seattle in 99 and it would be about the only place I'd consider returning too.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

I lived in Bellingham for 3 years and my wife's family is all there. If we weren't tied to the east right now for various reasons I'd live there in a heartbeat. The water and mountains are just incredible. Seattle is too big for me with way too much traffic, but it is nice to visit, as is Vancouver BC just to the north.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

One of the nicer things about Washington state is its close proximity to British Columbia.


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## Dave_E (Aug 7, 2013)

Capt Len said:


> One of the nicer things about Washington state is its close proximity to British Columbia.


Capt Len,

Next summer, our first "big" adventure from our home port in Everett is going to be the San juans or Victoria. If we head your way, I may call upon you for advice.

I've said it here before, Puget Sound with it's vast water ways, BC, passage to Alaska, scenery, year-round sailing weather etc. is 2nd to nowhere for sailing. 

Dave


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## cutterdad (Apr 10, 2013)

Retired here a year ago (south western WA on the Pacific Columbia). Water can be a little thin on the river if you get out of the channel. So far no one has mentioned to make up for no income tax there is a really high sin tax on alcohol no I mean really high. At our age my wife and I would rather wear a sweater than a bikini so weather is fine. When it comes to gardening. You don't have to worry about growing stuff as much as you have to kill stuff.
As said before everyone we have met has been more than friendly. Been around a lot of the world. Thought we would travel a lot more when we retired. So far we don't want to leave this area. Did I say we we got a new house with a dock for about what a regular house in CA would cost. If you promises not tell anyone else "we think we found paradise". 
Good luck.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Today had some beautiful winter sailing. 50 degrees, 12 knots of wind dropping to about 8 knots, overcast.

We weren't the only ones out, I saw at least 10 other boats sailing near Shilshole, including this very nice Q Class:









One of the sailing schools seemed to be doing some fun sailing on 3 J-80s as well.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

2nd generation BORN on pill hill in seattle, kids are 3rd. Been to the east coast in the summer........never again, humid, daily if not hourly thunderstorms........places east of the mississippi river get MORE RAIN, yes more rain from May 1 to October 1 than seattle ALL year by some 10". That does not include the snow moisture from Oct 1 to may 1 either.....

Anyway. Looked like a great day to sail. but alas, someone stole my boat out of the Edmonds marina! I did get a pic of the suspects, so if you see them......well, not sure what to say about it!









Oh it was a bit on the warm side today at 48, would have preferred low 40's, then the local mtns would have had snow falling instead of rain......grrrrrrrrrr.....

ALong with you do not have have a shoal draft boat, DEEP draft will work just fine. in fact, you usually do not even get the depth guage to read! the lowest point in puget sound is 1300' deep, straight of georgia in BC is 2200 iirc.......hell anchoring will be an issue! one hell of a lot o rode!

Marty


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Not to worry. There is lots of navigable water between the rocks.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Capt Len said:


> One of the nicer things about Washington state is its close proximity to British Columbia.


You can find good Cuban cigars in Victoria as well.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I lived in Spokane for three years, one of the most beautiful cities in the United States - no doubt about it. Just 30 miles to the east was Lake Coeur d'Alene, which had lots of small sailboats skittering around through much of the warmer months. Lake Pend Oreille was a bit farther away, but much larger and breathtakingly beautiful to say the least. As for Seattle, I went to school there for a major oil company, and at the end of the three months I spent there I would never have returned. Too many people, too much traffic, not much sunshine, damp, and cold. Spokane was superior in many ways. Employment opportunities throughout the Inland Empire are not at all good - which is why I returned to Maryland.

Gary


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## baboon (Aug 7, 2008)

I was born here and after 40+ yrs I need to point out that all of the responses so far are wrong, there is no reason why anybody from anywhere else needs to move to the PNW ever, especially Seattle. Rain, grey, earthquakes, volcanos, packs of rabid slugs and moles, this place is a living hell. I was on the docks when Alex pulled in yesterday, the guy has moss growing out of his eyeballs. Of course people are friendly around here, misery loves company. Have you thought about LA? 

This is the best description I have read about this area; Seattle is like being married to a beautiful woman, who is sick all the time.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

How does that Perry Como song go......"the bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle......"

oh yeah, forgot about them earthquakes, or sunami's or volcano's or uprising faults causing mtns during earthquakes..........

don't move here, to many here already......lololol

Marty


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## benesailor (Dec 27, 2012)

> I was born here and after 40+ yrs I need to point out that all of the responses so far are wrong, there is no reason why anybody from anywhere else needs to move to the PNW ever, especially Seattle. Rain, grey, earthquakes, volcanos, packs of rabid slugs and moles, this place is a living hell. I was on the docks when Alex pulled in yesterday, the guy has moss growing out of his eyeballs. Of course people are friendly around here, misery loves company. Have you thought about LA?


Funny!? That's the same thing the native born say in Denver, Boise and Austin.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

Dave_E said:


> C
> 
> I've said it here before, Puget Sound with it's vast water ways, BC, passage to Alaska, scenery, year-round sailing weather etc. is 2nd to nowhere for sailing.
> 
> Dave


Bad place to move for sailing I only got to sail about 200 days last year
:laugher:laugher:laugher


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## TerryBradley (Feb 28, 2006)

And don't even think about Whidbey Island or Anacortes. Terrible places to live and work. I've had a boat there for the last four years and I wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy! Uh, guys, can we really go to hell for lyin'?


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## Unkle Toad (May 11, 2013)

Really guys I get all of the "it rains all the time" "it sucks here" posts and I say the same thing to people. but we like sailors and we like other sailors to have good water and wind too so how about we just agree that its ok for you to move out here for sailing but make sure your friends only come to visit in the fall when it really does suck (unless you sail) around here .. that way we wont get all the hangers on wanting to move out here too


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Cruising and live aboard is so bad on the coast that after 40 years I've had enough. I've downsized my pile of charts but still have most inside pass to Skagway If there are any machismo sailors about with a propensity for useless suffering I'd be willing to assist them on their way. Advice is free since I don't use that anymore either.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

TerryBradley said:


> And don't even think about Whidbey Island or Anacortes. Terrible places to live and work. I've had a boat there for the last four years and I wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy! Uh, guys, can we really go to hell for lyin'?


Its not really lying just embellishing a little and I suppose a little self serving but seriously in the winter we are an hour outdoor place an hour from sailing to snow skiing there are even lakes open to trout fishing year round from Seattle you are less than an hour from almost any outdoor activity you want to do.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Port Townsend has to be the worst place ever. Crappy brick buildings, old dinosaurs making wood boats. Folks are so cheap they have to go to micro brewerys to get a decent drop.


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## khammett (Sep 20, 2013)

Washington State a lot of people are moving there. Has a pretty good economy right now.

Check out this website for more WA info...

Washington Forum - Relocation, Moving, General and Local City Discussions - City-Data Forum


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## Bruce_L (Jun 19, 2012)

benesailor said:


> This ought to be interesting. Moving from Miss to Wash? That's like two opposite ends of the universe.


Oh, how about growing up as a kid on St.Croix in the USVI and moving to central Mississippi to attend college after high school? I went from pleasant tropical days to insane heat and epic humidity. We never had air conditioning growing up and all I did in Mississippi is find the closet place with some A/C running wide open. I had to buy all these things like long pants, socks, road maps, fresh (?) frozen fish and canned fruit to eat. I bet I own more than 15 tons (pun intended) of air conditioning equipment today!

Sailing on the Mississippi sound in the Gulf of Mexico is great but there are things about this area I am getting rather tired of.

Enjoy all the opinions and info so far... Thanks everyone.


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## jklumpp0 (Jun 27, 2013)

Coming from the east coast, I'm loving it here. I've only been here three years, but love having all my hobbies near by. There were several weekends last year where I was skiing one day and sailing the next. As others have said, the sound (assuming you're not looking at the coast) is large - it's amazing how quickly a half mile of water will prevent urbanization.


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## Undadar (Mar 24, 2011)

I would appreciate it if someone would comment on the availability of cell phone and data service on the waterways. Not worried about the service near the cities but the small town, quieter areas. Yes, I am a working stiff and need Internet connectivity. 

Thanks!


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Most providers can show you data coverage reasonably well on a map. I'm on T-Mobile and it can vary widely, but T-Mobile also has the least reliable coverage in rural areas. As an example I get HSPA+ service in Friday Harbor, but sometimes only at 1-2 bars. At Lopez Island/Fisherman's Bay I have no service. In many other nice anchorages it can drop to 2G.

Many marinas have internet, but it's usually over-utilized.

I wouldn't be surprised if Verizon did better out here. AT&T seems to be somewhat similar (most of the friends that I sail with have AT&T phones).


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

also, the Orca Whales like it so much that they came south into Puget Sound for Christmas:









That was shot just off of Shilshole Bay Marina in Seattle a couple of hours ago.


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## baboon (Aug 7, 2008)

It is hard to top Alex's photo, 

I have used AT&T for data, and Verizon for voice and data on Puget Sound from south Seattle, Bremerton, up north to the mid San Juan's without problem, although there are spots you will drop to 3G and rarely 2G. There are so many little coves and islands that I am sure if you tried you could find a place with no access. As as side note, the rumor around here is there are so many hyper wealthy techies in the San Juans (including Paul Allen) that data access up there is better than you would expect.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

Paul Allen no longer lives there he sold his island a couple weeks ago and the Puget sound is one of the most wired places on the planet. Lots of big tech companies here. Heck we almost invented telecommuting.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

A few spots on the SJ's where the US wireless is non existent to not there, but bc comes thrur, or overpowers the US on this side. would imagine some places in BC is is the same, they are weak, but a stronger US signal comes thru. 

Near port angelas driving, on elevation I can get a us radio, go down the next 200' I am getting a Victoria station on the same radio wave, then on water I am getting the US station again. Phone sometimes works similar along the borders. 

Crane island in the sj's is tough to get cellular all around it but doable. I could call out at the top of mt constitution on Orcas......ferry ride to orcas is pretty good overall for wireless. A bit in the area of west sound south is tough.....

The main part of puget sound south of PT is not an issue overall with cel zervice. 

Marty


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