# Coasties Gone Wild?



## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

Recently a sailor submitted a letter to a Bay Area sailing magazine, alleging he (in a racing sailboat, flying a kite) had been charged at high speed by a Coast Guard gun boat, with it's bow gun pointed directly at him. Apparently, the CG was defending a cargo ship that was in the middle of the bay, which the sailor estimates was two miles off his bow. He thought this was overly aggressive, given the circumstances. Several readers responded, agreeing and telling similar (though less dramatic) stories of their own. One person, claiming to be ex CG also responded. First, he corrected us on the size of the gun. We thought it was a 50 caliber. He assured us it was only a 30, stating a 50 would have gone clean through the offending boat and one or two other boats that happened to be in the area. He basically went on to say, if they point a gun at you, do what they say (as if any of us had to be told this!). Though unofficial, this response speaks volumes. 
Don't get me wrong....I'm glad the CG exists, and appreciate the job they do. However, I'm aware of a long list of situations in which they overreacted, acted inappropriately, or didn't act when they should have, IMO. Administrative communications I (and others) have had with them haven't gone much better. Is it just me, or is this agency out of control? 
Edit: I'm interested in the experiences of other skippers. Please resist the temptation to get too political (difficult given the subject, but this is a sailing forum.).


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

I once had an ugly meeting with the C.G.. When I got to shore I contacted the commanding officer. After several conversations he apologized. Saying they hire them so quick they don't alwys get the cream of the crop. Funny thing was he asked before I told about one specific offender.........*i2f*


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

It is part of DHS....and their mission has recently changed....what would you expect from a DHS element?

they are merely following orders

IMHO, this will only get worse until DHS gets their way and has some method to "identify" everything that floats. God forbid you get near Dahlgren, Cove Point, Chesapeake Nuclear plant, and the other "security zones" they designate.

Best of luck in changing the mission of USCG or DHS...they are the darling of the President. What other agency can boast the growth and budget, in such a short time....as DHS and led by a woman who is as close to clueless as this president, or the head of the EPA...


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## ewoden (Mar 30, 2011)

Hmmm, seems some might need to be reminded of the sitting President when DHS became such an intrusive overgrown monied entity and anastamosed the USCG.


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

yup i've been aware of the deteriation of american citizens rights ,since 911 and the homeland security act,apparently the people we have running this country have **** for brains or some other motives but hey they aren't profiling huh,in fact its more like reverse profiling,is there no more common sence,oh oh here i am breaking my vow not to get political on this forum


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Agreed with all of the above including who signed the bill authorizing the DHS in the first place. 
We got our boat post 9/11 and I have done several transits of the East River around Manhattan since then. Most of the time the CG are visible but non-threatening. I've never been stopped or actually harassed.
One time I was along as crew aboard a foreign national's (Chilean) boat and the other crew was from Ukraine by way of Canada. As we passed the U.N. we were escorted by one of their RIBS with the machine gun mounted up forward. They were not pointing the gun at us nor did they want to talk on the radio. They just stayed between us and the shore near the U.N. I'm not sure which foreign dignitary was speaking there that day but I have heard that they will shut down this waterway when someone like the POTUS is speaking there. 
There is no arguing with a machine gun no matter what gauge shells it fires.


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

i've never had a problem with the c.g. either in fact to the contrary but theres always some bad apples anywhere,a little authority makes some people full of themselfs


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

I came to this thread thinking something along the lines of College Girls Gone Wild.... What a disappointment 

However, I have had two interactions with the USCG;

Once when they escorted me in while taking on water and they could not have been more polite, professional and helpful.

The second time they where making sure I kept proper minimum distance from an outbound Sub in New London Harbor. They acted professionally but made it clear that they where giving the orders. That was fine by my as it helped me keep clear since I don't have radar so really could only eyeball distance in a confined harbor.

All in all I think they do a great job. One does have to keep in mind that most of them are young.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

We live in the San Juan Islands of WA state near the Canadian border and there are always USCG vessels of various types running around near us (the many smaller SAFE type boats with multiple large outboards use an average of 1000 gallons of gas per day in our small area). I've never had any bad experience with them, and have only been approached a couple of times. Never been boarded, but that may be because we are local and they know our boats. I will say that a lot of the crews are young and inexperienced so I expect that is probably the case in other areas as well. The one time that a USCG boat told us they were going to board us they proceeded to attempt to come along side three times and misjudged it each time (we were stopped, about 15-20 knots of wind and a 2'-3' chop) they finally told us they were concerned about damaging our boat so they were not going to board us. I thought that was considerate, but since we were in our commercial crab boat and they were in an inflatable....


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## dub420sailor (Mar 29, 2010)

I love those guys...SOOOOO much better than Wildlife here in NC...


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

sawingknots said:


> I've never had a problem with the c.g. either, in fact to the contrary, but there are always some bad apples anywhere; a little authority makes some people full of themselves'.


This statement is true not only of the CG but your local DNR (dept o' natural resouces), DEP (dept o'environmental preservation) or even the Harbor Master, Dock Master on down to a gas dock clerk. 
Very few, but some clubs discourage tipping launch drivers and they will largely be member staffed working clubs. At your usual expensive YC tipping is expected; this has been my experience. 
Look salty; but too shabby dress does not impress, especially after 40 years on the planet.


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## nauticalnut (Sep 5, 2006)

How are they to know that you are or are not a threat? They don't know if you are armed or not, nor do they know if you have explosives aboard. Imagine what a 22ft sailboat laden with explosives could do to a cargo ship ( remember the USS Cole).


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

RobGallagher said:


> I came to this thread thinking something along the lines of College Girls Gone Wild.... What a disappointment
> Sorry to disappoint, though I'm sure the Web can fulfill all your needs!
> However, I have had two interactions with the USCG;
> Once when they escorted me in while taking on water and they could not have been more polite, professional and helpful.
> ...


If youth is the problem, adult supervision should be provided when a 30 caliber machine gun is involved.


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

nauticalnut said:


> How are they to know that you are or are not a threat? They don't know if you are armed or not, nor do they know if you have explosives aboard. Imagine what a 22ft sailboat laden with explosives could do to a cargo ship ( remember the USS Cole).


the uss cole was a completly different situation,it woud seem to me anyone who is provided with authority and lethal weapons should at least have some common sence,its not hard to judge the nature of a boat or a person based on their apperance and or actions,hostile crap has happened before and be sure it will again but terrorising/harassing innocent citizens isn't the answer


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

nauticalnut said:


> How are they to know that you are or are not a threat? They don't know if you are armed or not, nor do they know if you have explosives aboard. Imagine what a 22ft sailboat laden with explosives could do to a cargo ship ( remember the USS Cole).


They know you are not a threat because you are in a sailboat, two miles away from the cargo vessel. Could you become a threat? Certainly. However, I think the likelihood that the vessel of choice for a terrorist will be a sailboat (flying a kite no less) is highly unlikely! If the sailboat has been warned, has not altered course, and is now a half mile from the cargo ship...Whole different ball game!
BTW...The Cole was another example of a terrorist attack that was predicted, and should never have happened IMO. A military ship fueling depot in a country that clearly has elements hostile to the US. What could possibly go wrong, and where were the young guns with two mile limits?! The terrorist's raft was allowed to snuggle up to the Cole before it discharged. One extreme to the other, we never seem to learn! I know hindsight is 20/20, but C'mon folks! Anyway...I digress!


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

jrd22 said:


> . The one time that a USCG boat told us they were going to board us they proceeded to attempt to come along side three times and misjudged it each time (we were stopped, about 15-20 knots of wind and a 2'-3' chop) they finally told us they were concerned about damaging our boat so they were not going to board us. I thought that was considerate, but since we were in our commercial crab boat and they were in an inflatable....


It would be funny if it wasn't so sad! Let's hope their marksmanship is better than their seamanship!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The USCG is staffed by humans, who can and do make mistakes in judgement. At least as often, I see people push back on authority, no matter how it is exercised.

I've had nothing but a good experience with the USCG, even when they are exercising their authority. Maybe I have a different understanding of threats that don't come with a warning.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

This is one of the reasons people around here fought to keep a LNG terminal from being built in Long Island Sound. Constant LNG tanker traffic, with a "protected zone" around each vessel as it moved because each one contains the explosive potential of an atomic bomb. And the USCG would be required to provide the escort vessels (would you want Haliburton to be doing it after their shoot-em-up episodes in other places?) so US taxpayers foot the bill for the oil/gas industry AGAIN. To provide this 24/7 protection, the Coast Guard has had to increase their inventory of boats & equipment as well as crew. Their operating costs have skyrocketed. 

The USCG's recent purchase of new 44' sailboats will help every officer be more aware of how sailboats work and the perspective we have as sailors, rather than powerboaters. It should help, though we're not there yet.


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## svzephyr44 (Jun 26, 2000)

If this upsets you I suggest you don't leave the US and/or Canada. In Guatemala guys with shotguns patrol the ATM machines. The patrol boats, customs, immigration, port captains, etc. in various international ports may be corrupt or not. The penalties for "talking back" can be quite nasty. That is not to say that there are not a lot of people that are honest and very nice. One just is never sure. 

As pointed out there are a**holes in every "protective" service. The "head police" in Florida are legendary. Fishing guys, mooring guys, local marine police, the list goes on and on. But as one who has been helped out in several international ports and lots of domestic ones I find the large majority of these people to be nice, honest and helpful.

My guess is you have a strong distaste of guns. They are so uncommon in the US (except on the hips of police officers) that their presence generates strong reactions. They are much more common elsewhere in the world. One gets used to it.


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

your talking about 3rd world countries or banana republics where theres a coup around every corner,this is supposed to be the u.s. we're supposed to be better than that,is our gverment turning into a goon squad determined to mantain its authority by fear


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## beachmont (Sep 18, 2011)

When the LNG tankers come to Boston they shutdown the harbor


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

svzephyr44 said:


> My guess is you have a strong distaste of guns. They are so uncommon in the US (except on the hips of police officers) that their presence generates strong reactions. They are much more common elsewhere in the world. One gets used to it.


Ironically, I'm fully armed most of the time! However, I use discretion and don't point weapons in the face of others when no threat exists. To loosely quote one of the founding fathers: "Those who would give up rights in exchange for security, deserve neither rights nor security"
Having said that, I don't want to get too political here (difficult, given the topic). My intent with this thread was to do a survey to see if skippers in other parts of the country were experiencing the same overly aggressive CG it seems we have in the SF Bay Area. So far, it's a mixed bag.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

paulk said:


> The USCG's recent purchase of new 44' sailboats will help every officer be more aware of how sailboats work and the perspective we have as sailors, rather than powerboaters. It should help, though we're not there yet.


I think they have had that program for a long time (maybe always). A friend bought a Ludders 44 from the CG and cruised the Caribbean on it. The Navy also has a fleet. 
Yet, it apparently didn't occur to the CG that a terrosist probably wouldn't go to the trouble of flying a big, colorful kite to draw attention to his approach!:laugher


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

L124C said:


> My intent with this thread was to do a survey to see if skippers in other parts of the country were experiencing the same overly aggressive CG it seems we have in the SF Bay Area. So far, it's a mixed bag.


Haven't had any issues here in SD with the CG, however, the CG seems to be "all back of the bus" with the USN running most of the security in the bay, our biggest problem is the over aggessive Mexican Navy


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> The USCG is staffed by humans, who can and do make mistakes in judgement. At least as often, I see people push back on authority, no matter how it is exercised.
> 
> I've had nothing but a good experience with the USCG, even when they are exercising their authority. Maybe I have a different understanding of threats that don't come with a warning.- Minnewaska


i TOTALLY AGREE., I have nothing but professional experiences with the CG performing their job. Ot an easy one in todays day and age with the threats we see and thones we dont see or even know about. Every group has a few "wyatt Earos", but the whole organizatuoin should not be castigated for the actions of a few.

Hooray for the CG

Dave


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

We had a similar experience passing the UN while the General Assembly was on. We were escorted along by one of the inflatables with two machine guns manned and ready. The operators were wearing balaclavas over their faces and must have been dying as it was pretty warm. I really don't know why they felt they had to look so militaristic as they sat in front of the UN and occasionally sped up to 10 knots to accompany traffic (except when the shift change came - boy did they open it up then).

I have noticed an immense difference between the US and Canadian coast guards. The latter is not a military organization and seems to somewhere that people go to for a career. The average guy you see seems to be in his 30s or 40s rather than a kid as in USCG, where it seems people go to work for a few years and then move on.


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## Chris King (Aug 23, 2011)

I sail on the San Francisco Bay a lot. Often pretty close to cargo ships. I sail out of Richmond and have no choice but to share a narrow channel with some big stuff. The same situation happens in the estuary. I love short tacking up the estuary. This involves getting within spitting distance of docked ships.

I have never been approached by a CG boat.

In 2007 I sailed from Seattle to San Francisco. We had planned to sail nonstop but the seas were kind of rough and the crew was not feeling that great so we decided to stop in Brookings Oregon. I radioed ahead to ask what entrance conditions were like. The CG said it was fine but asked for all our details. I hadn't worked out out ETA yet so I gave them a rough estimate. It turns out I was way optimistic so we were quite a bit late, well after dark. When we arrived the CG was waiting for us at the dock. One senior guy and 3 or 4 junior guys. They wanted to do a safety inspection. The cool thing was that the senior guy turned it in to a lecture to the younger guys on how to do things right. PFDs, harnesses, jacklines, MOB pole with strobe, etc. Made me feel pretty good.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

poopdeckpappy said:


> Haven't had any issues here in SD with the CG, however, the CG seems to be "all back of the bus" with the USN running most of the security in the bay, our biggest problem is the over aggressive Mexican Navy


I seem to remember the CG mowed down a small boat participating in some event at night in San Diego last year. A kid was killed. As I recall the CG was responding to a call regarding a boat which had run aground. The account I read indicated the CG was moving much too fast in a crowed area at night, and that potential loss of life was not an issue with the grounding. Wonder what the outcome of that was?


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

Chris King said:


> I sail on the San Francisco Bay a lot. Often pretty close to cargo ships. I sail out of Richmond and have no choice but to share a narrow channel with some big stuff. The same situation happens in the estuary. I love short tacking up the estuary. This involves getting within spitting distance of docked ships. I have never been approached by a CG boat..


I do the same in the Estuary (though I REALLY love the down wind runs) and am often no more than 15 or 20 feet from the ship when we initiate our tack. It's interesting... to enforce any type of distance rule from cargo ships, they would almost have to eliminate up wind sailing in the Estuary for anything other than small boats. You could still do it with a 500 ft. distance rule, but you would be one busy Skipper!
I've never been approached by CG either, and there is a major CG station in the Estuaray. I did hear of someone who got scooted away from a CG vessel, but it's strange how they kind of look the other way on the cargo ships.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> The USCG is staffed by humans, who can and do make mistakes in judgment. At least as often, I see people push back on authority, no matter how it is exercised.
> I've had nothing but a good experience with the USCG, even when they are exercising their authority. Maybe I have a different understanding of threats that don't come with a warning.


Do you really think a sailboat two miles from a cargo ship is an imminent threat? The mear fact the gun is mounted on the front of the CG boat asserts authority. I don't even have a problem if the gun was manned during this encounter. However, if you point the gun at someone, you should be ready (and have reason) to use it. I believe this is SOP for most law enforcement agencies. I don't think this was a "mistake" as much as symptom a cowboy management style, in our area anyway. I have other examples. I'm glad you've had good experiences. As law abiding, tax paying citizens, we deserve no less.

/


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

L124C said:


> Do you really think a sailboat two miles from a cargo ship is an imminent threat? The mear fact the gun is mounted on the front of the CG boat asserts authority. I don't even have a problem if the gun was manned during this encounter. However, if you point the gun at someone, you should be ready (and have reason) to use it. I believe this is SOP for most law enforcement agencies. I don't think this was a "mistake" as much as symptom a cowboy management style, in our area anyway. I have other examples. I'm glad you've had good experiences. As law abiding, tax paying citizens, we deserve no less. /


L.... I find your response interesting. There is nothing in my post that would suggest I think a sailboat two miles from a cargo ship is an imminent threat. It couldn't even be implied from my post.

For any of us to really assess the CG's response, I think we would have to hear their side of the story, which isn't going to happen. I think someone mentioned these could be propane tankers? Do we know whether they have intelligence that suggests a terrorism threat using recreational boats? We just don't know.

I fully admit that some law enforcement overstep their bounds, that's is why I acknowledged they make mistakes. As often, or more often, they are accused of it without all the facts.

For decades, USCG duty was pretty benign in most places. Rescues and safety inspections were job one. However, terrorism has and will continue to come to our shore and they have been called upon to help prevent it from happening again. In most countries that are accustom to terrorism, enforcement can be much more aggressive than this account.

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience. Your criticism may be fully justified, I just can't tell and only want to share another perspective. Hopefully, you're not only asking for people to detail their accounts of over reactions and are open to both views.


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## ftldiver (Sep 9, 2002)

fwiw, 

In Miami, they have closed the main channel to government cut to civilian traffic. all pleasure boats must take the south channel away from the cruise ships. (but next to the cargo ships)

if you try to enter the main channel, a USCG boat will rush towards you, and announce that this channel is closed and you must use the south channel. (often with someone on the 30 cal gun).

They meet you a few miles from the actual cruise ships where the channels fork.


In Ft lauderdale, there is less width in the turning basin, and channels, but USCG is still present and warns you to stay away from the cruise ships. acceptable distance there is a small as 100'

I've never had a problem... 

for the OP; The only think I can think of, was there was an alternate route you could have taken, and choose not to? thus the aggressive rush towards you.


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## LinekinBayCD (Oct 19, 2009)

I'm inclined to give a lot of latitude and slack to the CG. I just can't get too worked up about them operating as described in NYC. Part of what they are doing in addition to reacting to a current situaltion or assignment could also be designed to have a deterient effect.

If the venue was different, I might have a different opinion. I was boarded for a safety check this spring just outside of Rockland harbor in Maine. Never knew they were approaching. I first thought their toot on the horn was a belt slipping. It was a dismal day with not another boat in sight. My guess is that they need to do a certain number and they were sampling a universe of one and I was the one. The young guy and girl who came aboard could not have been more polite. No nit-picking about any thing. Just looking for the required fire extinguishers, PFD's etc. No mention at all was made of my wife's wine glass or an empty beer in a hugger near the helm. In my mind it was the perfect level of response I'd expect for the situation.


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## ftldiver (Sep 9, 2002)

Oh, 

when I had a small go fast (23'), One day I was running back from elliot key in miami, doing around 45mph (cruising speed), and just kicking back enjoying the ride... I decided to pull the plug to empty any water, and when I lifted my head I see a marine patrol boat following me (only 200' behind!) I was pretty shocked, especially when I had the plug in my hands.

but it was no biggie, I put the plug back in, stopped for an inspection, and was on my way. 

I think he just wanted to see my reaction...


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

I see the USCG in their little red boats from my office building on the Willamette River, machine guns and all, but only when a VIP speaks at the waterfront park or if the Rose Festival Fleet is in town. 

I image they devote most of their time protecting our Port Facilities. 

I never see them out on the Columbia River, where I sail. Rarely see the sheriff's patrol out their either, and their dock/facilities are literally 250 yards upriver. 

That's a good thing, even though my boat has everything it's supposed to have. 
Not looking forward to being boarded by any agency.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> L.... I find your response interesting. There is nothing in my post that would suggest I think a sailboat two miles from a cargo ship is an imminent threat. It couldn't even be implied from my post.
> You mentioned that our understanding of hidden threats may be different. I didn't fully understand the comment, but guessed you thought the boat in question might have posed a hidden threat. I don't understand how it could, being so far from the ship. Sorry if I misunderstood.
> For any of us to really assess the CG's response, I think we would have to hear their side of the story, which isn't going to happen. I think someone mentioned these could be propane tankers? Do we know whether they have intelligence that suggests a terrorism threat using recreational boats? We just don't know.
> All true. Though given the situation I described (even if the actual separation was a mile), I can't imagine a scenario in which would be necessary to charge the boat and point a machine gun at the skipper to make him aware that the CG wanted him to stay clear of the ship. In fact, I would have found the story hard to believe had I not witnessed another incident in which the CG was overzealous to the point of being comical. However there is nothing funny about having a machine gun in your face when you're out for a weekend sail, have not done something stupid, and have not broken any laws.
> ...


I honestly hope the behavior is limited, and not nationwide. When I said I was glad you (and others in the thread) have had good experiences, I meant it.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

ftldiver said:


> fwiw,
> 
> In Miami, they have closed the main channel to government cut to civilian traffic. all pleasure boats must take the south channel away from the cruise ships. (but next to the cargo ships)
> Thats weird. Why would they steer you toward cargo vessels? I would think they would be a better terrorist target than passenger vessels. Especially when they are in port. In any case, I assume this detour is listed in the CG's Notice to Mariners. Not that many recreational skippers are even aware of the publication, but they are supposed to review it before going out.
> ...


Nope. The other skipper said it took place in Raccoon Straights, typically used by recreational vessels and ferries, not ships. The ship was far ahead in the bay (in the shipping channel). After the hair raising greeting, the CG simply told him to stay clear of the ship, not to turn around. Unless the ship was standing still (unlikely in that location), the sailboat probably would have never got near the ship, even if he tried! I think it's simply a matter of turning testosterone laden kids loose with expensive (though lethal) toys, without adult supervision. Young, Dumb and.... you know the rest!:laugher. Ironically, it just occurred to me that the shot I'm using for my avatar shows the exact location. My boat is in Raccoon straight, Angel Island is on the Left and Marin County is on the right. The ship would have been up in the main bay near the Golden Gate Bridge (it's there if you look closely!), crossing at a right angle to the Straight. Anyway, as others have pointed out, we will never know what actually happened. I'm more interested in your experiences.


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## ftldiver (Sep 9, 2002)

I'm not familiar with raccoon straight, but here are images of miami and ft lauderdale channels.

in the miami one,(top) pleasure craft now must take the south channel. (so their is an alternate, vs Port Everglades in Ft lauderdale, there is no alternate, so pleasure craft must share the channels with cruise ships.

there are usually at least 2 USCG boats in miami, one at each end, and ft laud, one sometimes 2. 

It appears the mission is to protect the cruise ships, not the cargo ships. in FLL there is just less room so you have to pass much closer.

in miami you have a alternate route option. 

fwiw, I sail with some costies, and the guy that takes care of my outboards is a reservist. yes their mission changed, but none of them see impressed with themselves like I see with other LEO's. 

I've never ever had a bad experience with the USCG, but have encounters with some of the marine patrols I'd not wish to repeat.


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

NY Harbor has CG go fasts, 30 cal and all, escorting the staten island ferry boats. I try to stay away, but they run so often, and are so large, that one can't help but get somewhat close to these ferries (within 1000 yards or so). The coasties have come up to my boat about 4 times in the last 3 months, always professional, sometimes even friendly. They just ask me to be careful and keep within a certain distance away from the ferries. Never pointing a gun at me. If they pointed a gun, I would be very upset because the first thing you [should] learn when you handle a gun is not to point it at anything you don't intend to shoot.

I have heard the coasties are far more authoritarian in florida, though I suppose their law enforcement duties are a much bigger part of what they do down there with the drug smuggling that goes on.

Let me be political. You wanna save money and stop the US from sliding into a police state? End the war on drugs.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

peterchech said:


> NY Harbor has CG go fasts, 30 cal and all, escorting the staten island ferry boats. I try to stay away, but they run so often, and are so large, that one can't help but get somewhat close to these ferries (within 1000 yards or so). The coasties have come up to my boat about 4 times in the last 3 months, always professional, sometimes even friendly. They just ask me to be careful and keep within a certain distance away from the ferries. Never pointing a gun at me. If they pointed a gun, I would be very upset because the first thing you [should] learn when you handle a gun is not to point it at anything you don't intend to shoot.QUOTE]
> 
> Good to hear they are professional. My thoughts exactly on gun handling. We have a lot of ferries here *(I'm talking about the boats, people!) * ,and I have never seen an escort. But then...SF is not New York. Interestingly, if there is anywhere I would think the Coasties might be overzealous, it would be New York (for obvious reasons).


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