# How long to build skills??



## Win (Sep 4, 2003)

Hi, I was just cereous how long you guys think it would take to gain the necessary skills to go cruising. For either a year in the Caribbean, a pacific loop, or a circumnavigation (trades, but I doubt I can afford this option). To take someone from no or almost no sailing exp. To someone who could complete these trips in relative safety. If someone was willing to spend the money to take classes and buy a Capri or something similar for practice a couple days a weak on SF bay. And crew when possible on the west coast. Call it the fast track. Just how long do you think it would take to become a competent enough sailor to do these trips either solo or double handed. 

Right now I'm just a dreamer. But it doesn't look that hard to take a year or 2 off to go cruising. 15-20k for a boat (Think Vega, Contessa , or similar) and 1k a month expenses. So about 30k for a year of cruising and then sell the boat. I have the money, but not too tough for anyone to accomplish really. I'm just a bartender that lives frugally. It's the sailing part that I am not sure about. Who knows I may not even like it when I get off shore. But the classes and some crewing should answer that question for me before I have too much invested in this. 

I'm not too worried about the mechanical skills or the living conditions. I actually attended mechanic school after college just for fun. Built a few jeeps and a hotrod with friends. Even rebuilt my own automatic trans when it went out. As for the living conditions I am not too worried about that either. I spent 6 summers working for a rafting company on over night camping trips living in the dirt. Traveling is basically what I live for though. I try to go backpacking twice a year in Central America, SEA or Europe. 

So how long do you guys think it would take to turn this dream into a reality?


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

From the day you buy a boat till the day they bury you at sea, you will build your skills.

The sooner you get arrogant, the sooner they bury ya


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

It will take until you feel competent to do what you want to do. There is no set answer to your question, nor magic formula for accomplishing what you want. You just do what ever you can until you feel you are capable of setting out. And you'll continue learning, until you stop.


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## bwindrope (Feb 25, 2007)

Take classes and sail, sail, sail. Sounds like you are in the Bay Area, my old stomping grounds. If so, spend enough time around Angel Island, Alcatraz and the Golden Gate and you'll soon discover whether you like it and what you'll need to do in terms of boat management. As complex as your question is, it is also simple and universal: You can do it safely if you are smart and determined, and will fail miserably if you are not. 

As comparison, years ago my wife and I went from never having sailed to being comfortable doing trips in moderate weather out to the Channel Islands in SoCal and up the Inside Passage in BC in about 1 year of intensive study. 

One of my favorite things about sailing and sailboats is it keeps me humble. Truly the more I know the more I realize I don't know a damn thing. Even when you know enough to safely head offshore, you realize your puny brain can't control or anticipate all the variables. 

By the way, your estimate of what an offshore worthy boat will cost you seems absurdly low to me. Even on the cheap, and I'm cheap, a small boat with the necessary gear and such is going to cost you more in the range of 20-40K, and that is on the dirt cheap side. I mean, unless you are truly cavalier about your boat and equipment and repairs. 

Best wishes.


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## Win (Sep 4, 2003)

I might be off on the boat coast. I just kind of came up with that figure by reading this forum and looking at boats for sale and adding 25% or so for upgrades and repairs. 20-40k is doable though 40 would be tough. I also figure I will be saving more while building skills. I am really not that worried about the money part. I know how much money I have and how much I am able to save. So I either have the money or I don’t. Easy enough. But I would still be saving when practicing so it would be nice to have a rough estimate of time for budgeting purposes. 

I just don’t have a clew as to how long it would take to become a competent sailor. I mean should this be a 1 year plan or a 5 year plan. I know there is no right answer and it will be different for everyone. I just don’t have a clue. Is a 1-2 year plan a realistic option? Like I said this is still just a dream at this point (but I have been dreaming of this for 10 or more years)I’m just trying to get an idea of a time frame. 

Thanks for all the replies


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

If you have to ask the question: 'How long to ..." than you had better get started learning now. Sign up for the basic keel boat course soon. It would be great if you could crew with someone who races as well. You would learn a lot about sail shape and finesse points that may not be taught so well in a class. Of course some of the things racers do (really pushing the boat) are not necessarily the things you would want to do on blue water. 
Beg, lie, cheat and steal your way onto other peoples boats. Once your local boat clubs racing seasons start, show up before their 'relaxed' race night starts and try to get on a boat as crew (except here you should probably be honest and state your skill level). Someone always needs a hand to pull on a jib sheet. This type of race is usually referred to as a 'beer can' race and there is usually beer around (which you are familiar with) which is not a bad thing.

My favorite response to your query so far was: The sooner you get arrogant, the sooner they bury ya. You will learn something every time you go out unless you weren't paying attention.


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

I think the sailing part is dead easy and most people can pick it up very quickly. The hard part is weather, communications and navigation. They take a little more effort and finding someone who can teach it is always a challenge. It is easier with GPS and Satphones but when sh*t happens, it is nice to have some fundamental knowledge. 
I would try to crew on a couple long distance races or cruises to get the basics (all of them) down.


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## AlanBrown (Dec 20, 2007)

Win,

I've been actively boating (power and sail) for the past 21 years. Before that I owned small boats and crewed for friends. I'm STILL on a learning curve!

I suggest that you immediately sign up for a Power Squadron or U.S.C.G Auxiliary course to help teach you the rules of the road. Then, crew with as many folks who will have you. If you can find a sailing club in your area that offers lessons, sign up and start small.

Once you feel comfortable and have decided that boating is right for you, start shopping for a boat to cut your teeth on, say up to 30ft. When you've passed through your "docking disaster" stage you'll be ready to leave the confines of SF Bay and challenge yourself a bit. Eventually, you'll get to the point where you'll feel comfortable enough with your skills and your boat to make a more lengthy cruise.

In the meantime, buy a Chapman's and start reading. It is chock full of important information, as are many other books written about cruising and sailing.



Have fun, but be careful! Pay attention to the weather forecasts!


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

Great answers above, from which you'll see there's no set answer in terms of time.

But you want a wild estimate? Sail as much as you can, in as many varying boats, weather, and geographies as you can. Read up, and think about it when you're not doing any of the above.

Okay, here goes....two years minimum. More is better.

Those who disagree, have at it. I'll probably agree with you anyway, unless you say less than two years.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

This may make some people mad but I am going to say that if you dedicate youself to sailing as much as possible (couple days a week minimum, maybe a couple of deliveries as a crew member) and study your butt off you could head out in about a year +/-. I don't mean head out on a circumnavigation, but you could do some coastal cruising and gain more experience along the way. As you do more of it you will be able to answer your own question about when you are ready. It's pretty much up to you, depends on how determined you are to go.

Good luck, and keep us informed of your progress, John


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## LarryandSusanMacDonald (Apr 3, 2005)

All very informed answers. You will always continue learning. However, how will you know when you have become competent?

When you stop yelling at your crew. It is _then_ you know that you must think ahead to what is going to happen before it happens. This takes experience. Up until then, you yell when something happens that you didn't expect.

Your crew, often your wife, has to learn with you. Has to share in all of the experiences. You have to be a team - and each has to know the others strengths and weaknesses, and compensate for them. You must learn to communicate - often wordlessly - because sometimes you can't be heard above the din of the wind and waves and snapping sails.

Saltwater Suzi and I have worked out hand signals for many situations. Watch a couple when they anchor or raft up with another boat or attempt to bring the boat into a slip. The experienced ones are signaling each other and everything operates (relatively) smoothly. The inexperienced are yelling.

Guaranteed, you're gonna screw up. It has happened to all of us - on a real regular basis. When it does, try not to yell. And afterwards, over wine and cheese, try to talk it out calmly and figure out what you could have done better. Then try it next time. Each time, you will find it easier.

Take the courses - get the book learnin'. _Applying _it is the hard part. It's all well and good to pass your Power Squadron Advanced Piloting Course with flying colors, but at two o'clock in the morning, when crossing the gulf stream and oddball lights are coming at you and it's difficult to hold a course because you can't see, and the waves are bouncing the boat around so much that the compass is swinging back and forth, this is the time you need to count on each other, remain calm, apply what you know and figure out what you don't know.

Before you reach that point, you need to get your experience little by little - baby steps. Learn by the book and then learn by doing.

Sometimes you're going to be scared. That's when you need to have courage, to remain calm. You can go nutso later. That is when your boat, and nature, and circumstances are ganging up on you. You will learn a lot about yourself and each other in those times. And you'll survive and learn and grow closer together.

Cruising has been defined as 99% boredom and 1% panic. I see the point, but disagree. Only boring people get bored. And only the cowards panic.

Read, study, learn, ask, apply, practice. What more is there to almost everything in life? Well, that and the occasional rum.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Win, 

Welcome. 

I really mean that. Welcome to the forum and more importantly welcome to a wonderfully fulfilling lifestyle. I get the tone of your post and I think you're very well placed to be cruising ready faster than most. 

First I'll answer your question: about two years is the short answer. Three to five years to go offshore. Now with that comes a bunch of caveats. How much you sail, what friends you make, and how many books you read are the big factors. 

I bought a 31ft wooden sloop, not knowing how to sail, and I hooked up with a good captain to race with and devoured every book I could from the library. I also lived aboard and thus was always talking with boat people and learned a lot from their experience. After that I took off on a 4 month trip up the inside passage of Vanouver island. 

Was I ready? Ask anybody and the answer would be usually be HELL NO! But it depends on who you ask. EVERYONE I have ever talked to who has sailed for more than 6 months at a stretch has offered the same advice they all say "go and go now. If you stay at the dock you'll never leave." 

I'm not advocating you go now, there's a little work to be done first but most people will tell you that you need to learn more, you need a better boat, and you need LOTS more gear before you can go. When you hear this take note of who the advice comes from. Are they still at the dock? Or do they have significant experience?


I suggest this:

SAIL as much as possible. If it means joining a club or buying a boat do it. Race, you will learn a great deal about sail trim and, in racing you will find yourself in situations that you would never voluntarily put yourself in (such as having a spinnaker up in 30kts of wind) but you have to get out of. There is much to be learned from racing. 

Check out every single book on boating from the library and read as many as you can. You'll see many different opinions and you'll find where in the spectrum you sit. 

Buy a couple books. "Chapman's piloting" and "the complete sailor" by David Seidman. If you learn what's in chapman's and follow it to the letter I can (as close as you can) guarantee that no harm will come to you. The complete sailor is the best book to teach the sailing part. 

In your learning concentrate on two things above all else. STAY ONBOARD AND KEEP THE BOAT OFF THE ROCKS. The more you do to make sure these two things are looked after, the better off you'll be. The rest is gravy. This means being mindful and humble when on board and really LEARNING navigation and CURRENT. 

I've probably already said too much but it's a start. If you stay coastal you can do it for 20K (marine swap meets are your friend) and you can do it soon. If you want to go offshore you are really looking at more like 40K. 

PM me if you want me to rant further.  

Medsailor

PS One last thing, the Coronado 25 is a fine boat that I've seen many time for just under $4,000. My parents learned to sail on one in SF bay...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

IMHO, you never learn enough, and you never stop learning. 

Basic skills you can learn by doing, either by yourself or with an instructor, but these basic skills don't cover all situations you may find yourself in, and only by experiencing them can you learn.

I've sailed since I was 7, a long, long time ago. But, I still do the dumb things of a novice, to re-teach me the things I've forgotten or become overconfident in their practice.

Sailing is easy, seamanship takes a long time to develop.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Welcome....A good book for you to read would be Ellen MacArthur's book.

You will find her fast track, an interesting read..IIRC she was 15 when she sailed around Great Britain..a couple years later did the mini transit..

She lived and breathed sailing  24/7 though


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

Some people drive cars well from the start, some never get to do it right. 

Cruising, voyaging, whatever you want to call it, is no different. Some people can do it immediately, some people will spend their lives screwing up and not getting it right. More than anything, it depends on your acumen, competence to deal with the unexpected and the balls to take a chance.

I agree with one post above and say that sailing is only one fundumental element of cruising and a person who can win the Olympics sailing a Tornado is not necessarily equipped to cruise. It's all the other things that keep you safe and they all really distill down to one word - seamanship.

And that brings me back to the opening paragraph - if you have it, you can go in months - if you don't have it you may never be really ready.

Only you will know that and no amount of clever postulating can provide you with the answer.

Andre


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

Omatako said:


> Some people drive cars well from the start, some never get to do it right.
> 
> Cruising, voyaging, whatever you want to call it, is no different. Some people can do it immediately, some people will spend their lives screwing up and not getting it right. More than anything, it depends on your acumen, competence to deal with the unexpected and the balls to take a chance.


Ain't that the truth!


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## Win (Sep 4, 2003)

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond. I defiantly have a better idea of how long it will take now. A long time, give or take a while. No seriously it looks like this would have to be a 2 year or more plan. Once again thanks everybody


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*A 2-year plan?*

A 2-year plan? I'd say make it a life-time plan! You never stop learning - and when you do its time to swallow the anchor.

That's the great thing about it!


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

I say make it a "today" plan. You're confident in you monetary resources, so buy the boat and start cruising.

Remember this: *If you wait until you're ready, you'll never leave the dock.*

Some will say that my response is short-sighted and impulsive. I say that you need to take advantage of the passion while it's there. It's true that you'll learn for the rest of your life while you're on the water, but that shouldn't keep you at the dock.


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## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

You won't start until you do. 

However, you might not like it. 

So joining a club, maybe a dinghy sailing club to start to learn how to sail, is good advice. Not only because you will learn quickly to handle a small boat (it's actually rather easy) but also if you like getting seriously wet while being bounced about. 

With your sailing ambitions (shared by many here) some of it will involve being bounced about in awful weather while your bow throws waves over you - and that for hours, even days long, and no peace when you try to sleep either. It is not quality time, those bits, in fact its near torture.

Having developed a sufficient level of masochism to go back for more - your ready.

But seriously, the most difficult part of sailing is parking the boat, in front of a large, knowledgeable and critical audience of fellow sailors.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

since your cruising boat isn't all that big, why not start out with that boat from the start, skipping over the capri? Maybe even live aboard in SF. Sail it all the time, the bay will be a very good learning ground.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I met a young fella on my travels, 24 or so, who had departed Vancouver, and figured he had enough money to make it to Panama. He had little -very little - sailing experience, but he had heart. He picked up jobs as a diesel mechanic, which then became small motor, generators and outboards, he fixed my little Honda generator. So he was able to afford some anchorages and docking fees.

He had lived on the boat for a couple years prior, not sailing, just as an apartment kinda thing. When I asked what kind of rig he had, he didn't know the terms, but said he had a sail in the front, and one in the middle. He'd already made it 2,000 miles. Last I heard, he was in Panama.

In his case, if this story is going anywhere, is that determination and the willingingness to do it, makes up for experience. Experience is picked up along the way, if you're lucky. If you're not lucky, the sailing ends. 

If you think you have to have all the classes, all the certifications, etc., you probably ain't going to make it, too much preparation, or "getting ready to get ready", and you'll never ready. 

I'll bet you that most cruisers out here have never taken a single sailing course. And if they have, they were bored out of their minds.

How many of you cruisers, not bay cruisers, but ocean cruisers have taken a formal course in sailing? My bet not many, well, maybe the east coast sailors have and a few portagees.


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

ianhlnd said:


> How many of you cruisers, not bay cruisers, but ocean cruisers have taken a formal course in sailing? My bet not many, well, maybe the east coast sailors have and a few portagees.


My first exposure to cruising was at 18 or 19, when I left Hawaii to California with two other guys on a 28 foot home built tri...before that I had only played around on a couple of Hobie Cats in the bay. My trip was a 'trial by fire' learning experience, but the by the time we made it to California I felt like pro, and after a short rest up was ready to do it again!  I'm much older now (a little smarter too), and I have taken some formal instructions since my youth.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

"OCEANSIDE"
Jiffylube, you made that up didn't you. Never heard of a city named "mountainside, creekside, sidethat'sslidingoffthehill, sewerside, cemetaryside, dumpside, swampside, ghettoside, buggerside, portageeside, cheekside, slapside, yurropside, hongkongside, nipponside, rusaside, skidrowside, boweryside, nucpollutionside, etc, etc. 

Is there really an ceanside, and what makes it different from the other villages that are on the ocean?


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## filup501 (Jul 25, 2006)

Win,
Our sailing goals are very similar. I have only sailed in SF Bay. I want to sell my condo, buy a boat and take off to far off places. I don't own a boat...yet. I belong to a sailing club that allows me to meet other people interested in chartering and sail SF Bay. Joining a sailing club allows me to get a lot of sailing time in without owning or maintaining a boat. Most sailing clubs offer classes as well. I'm hoping that in a few years I will have learned enough about navigation, boat maintenance and sailing to be ready for the bluewater challenge. Anyway, that's what I'm doing. Take it for what it's worth. For me, clubs are great.

Good luck.


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

ianhlnd said:


> "OCEANSIDE"
> Jiffylube, you made that up didn't you. Never heard of a city named "mountainside, creekside, sidethat'sslidingoffthehill, sewerside, cemetaryside, dumpside, swampside, ghettoside, buggerside, portageeside, cheekside, slapside, yurropside, hongkongside, nipponside, rusaside, skidrowside, boweryside, nucpollutionside, etc, etc.
> 
> Is there really an ceanside, and what makes it different from the other villages that are on the ocean?


ianhlnd, in a way I'm surprised you never heard of Oceanside. It's in southern California, and the home of the Marine First Expeditionary Force...one of their slogans is No Beach Out Of Reach.


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## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

JiffyLube said:


> ianhlnd, in a way I'm surprised you never heard of Oceanside. It's in southern California, and the home of the Marine First Expeditionary Force...one of their slogans is No Beach Out Of Reach.


I thought slogan was, No Beer Too Near.


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## Rainy9 (May 6, 2008)

At the age of 65 I decided I wanted to live on a yacht and go cruising full time. Never having been on the deck of one I paid for a weeks instruction which ended as 1 ½ days as we sheltered at anchor in a gale. Read a number of yachting books then on my 66th birthday I bought a H28.
Spent next 11 years cruising the east coast of Australia. See my blog or link in my profile
Incidently it was all single handed.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Rainy9,
Would enjoy seeing your blog. You need more than 10 posts here to be able to post a link to your blog so keep posting something like: "What?". Then post the link to your blog.


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## Rainy9 (May 6, 2008)

See link in my signature


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## tjaldur (Mar 1, 2008)

I believe that what you need to do is to synchronize your confidence and your competence and be able to distinguish between luck and skill. And, I do not believe in correspondence courses for flamenco dance and sailing.


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## Chuteman (May 23, 2006)

Win:
Your goals are fine but try not to get too far ahead of yourself. You are already lucky to be in the Bay area as it's a great place to learn & hone sailing skills.
Sounds like your time is flexible & you are willing to dedicate the time to learn. Once You get rolling & if you find its a passion, things will falls into place.........but don't skip building a solid foundation

In case You have not seen this very good place to learn & to stretch your $$$:
The Cal Sailing Club Home Page

Once You "graduate" you can easily move to larger boats at one of the other sailing schools/clubs in the area. My vote would be below but I'm biased:
OCSC Sailing School | San Francisco Bay | Sailing Lessons | California

If You have not started reading Latitude 38......pick up a copy(free) at any marine related location & also a good site:
Latitude 38 - The West's Leading Sailing and Marine Magazine

Fair Winds


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

poopdeckpappy said:


> From the day you buy a boat till the day they bury you at sea, you will build your skills.
> 
> The sooner you get arrogant, the sooner they bury ya


Hey!! I resemb.....err! Resent that remark....

But truly you are always learning and building experiences.  
So the day you think you are a Know-It-All is the day you die.

Killed by those who will not put up with your arrogance.


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## tjaldur (Mar 1, 2008)

We have a saying in Norway:

Only a fool does not fear the sea.


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## Duckwheat (May 6, 2008)

*Read this.........*

Search the sailing log for the sailing log, Bumfuzzle.

Very young couple with little experience made it. He is a good writer it is an interesting read.

But it will change your mind.

DW


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