# Windy Texans starting the Liveaboard life



## WindyTexans (Jun 23, 2021)

Hi, all:

David and Jennifer here. 

While we both have smaller boat sailing experience, we are soon making the jump to a liveaboard. So many choices on boats!!!

Since there will probably be just the two of us (and our Border Collie), we are thinking along the lines of a 31-32’ monohull. We will probably be doing coastal runs in the Gulf of Mexico, the Bahamas, and up the east coast.

Not sure of brands, but leaning toward a Benetau, Catalina, or possibly a Hunter. Intend to have one that has had good upkeep, with decent engine, sails, rigging, and interior appointments. 

We have read a TON of information on “what to do”. Since we plan on staying out for several months at a time, would appreciate folks offering some “must do’s”, some “avoid this”, etc.

Thanks in advance!!!!

Profile pix to come.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I suggest you think bigger boat if you can, Big plus of tankage increase at 40'.

Must have's start at solar. And bigger boat is easier to fit more solar. Enough solar really opens a lot of possibles.


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## WindyTexans (Jun 23, 2021)

Don L said:


> I suggest you think bigger boat if you can, Big plus of tankage increase at 40'.
> 
> Must have's start at solar. And bigger boat is easier to fit more solar. Enough solar really opens a lot of possibles.


Thanks for that info. We definitely want to go solar, and want to get as many watts as possible (many more surface area). Would prefer all-electric cooking, so we don't have to worry about propane.
You have a great point about deck area. Not sure is there are "hardtop" bimini tops, that we could mount panels on, or if they're an issue in rough weather.

Input is greatly appreciated, as we want to try and "rig it right" the first time, as much as possible. Others input is crucial.

thanks, again


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

You are going to need a lot of battery and solar to go electric cooking. It is going to take up a lot more space and money than a spare propane bottle!


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## Annapolitan (Feb 22, 2021)

Welcome from another new member.

+1 on a bigger boat, especially for live-aboard. "Coastal runs" can make boats smaller than you think. I did my ASA 103 in the Chesapeake Bay on a Bene 37 (which at dock seemed big) in some higher wind with some good Bay chop and immediately my desire for a 30-foot boat was for no less than a 36-foot boat (which is what I ended up with).

It sounds like you are interested in a previously owned rather than new boat. If that is the case, then you might not want to necessarily limit yourself to the brands you mention.

Given you "intend to have one that has had good upkeep, with decent engine, sails, rigging, and interior appointments," then condition, rather than brand, is ideally what to focus on. As your search in earnest progresses, you'll see many older, well maintained boats by brands, in addition to the ones you mentioned, such as O'Day, Irwin, Pearson, Ericson, C&C, Sabre, Bristol, Tartan, etc., etc., all of which have good followings and for which there is tons of info here and elsewhere.

Good luck in your search and endeavors.

Cheers,

Annapolitan


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## WindyTexans (Jun 23, 2021)

Annapolitan said:


> Welcome from another new member.
> 
> +1 on a bigger boat, especially for live-aboard. "Coastal runs" can make boats smaller than you think. I did my ASA 103 in the Chesapeake Bay on a Bene 37 (which at dock seemed big) in some higher wind with some good Bay chop and immediately my desire for a 30-foot boat was for no less than a 36-foot boat (which is what I ended up with).
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input. As the saying goes: it's what I don't know I don't know. Hence getting everyone's input. I guess most of the cruising will be the Gulf Coast, East Coast, and the islands from the Bahamas on down. I've seen discussions on strength-of-hull in heavy weather, and want to make sure there are not problems with that.

Am also curious about in-mast roller furling. Think it sounds like a good idea, but don't want the possible nightmare of a jam, when heavy weather is coming, when sail with dual, or perhaps triple reefing with lazyjacks may be just as good.

Wide open of folk's opinions, as well as what works for them.

Again, thank you!


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

WindyTexans said:


> Thanks for your input. As the saying goes: it's what I don't know I don't know. Hence getting everyone's input. I guess most of the cruising will be the Gulf Coast, East Coast, and the islands from the Bahamas on down. I've seen discussions on strength-of-hull in heavy weather, and want to make sure there are not problems with that. -* A classic newbie concern that sends them down a rabbit hole. The fact is by far most cruisers in the 30'+ are stronger than most owners and will still be sailing along way after the person is crawled up in a ball crying for their mommy. Besides you aren't going to be more than an overnight away and will know the forecast before leaving.*
> 
> Am also curious about in-mast roller furling. Think it sounds like a good idea, but don't want the possible nightmare of a jam, when heavy weather is coming, when sail with dual, or perhaps triple reefing with lazyjacks may be just as good. - *another worry that mostly a waste of time. Once you know how to use one it rarely jams and on the other hand in bad weather is the worst time to have to go to the mast an pull down a sail. *
> 
> ...


My suggestion to you is to not get over scared about the sailing stuff and allow fear to determine your choices. You will be much better served, in my opinion as someone who has full cruised the last 5 years in the same places you indicate, to spend most of your time considering the liveaboard features of your boat choice. Most comfortable cruiser for their size are going to be just fine sailing boats. But some good sailing boats make terrible live on cruising boats.


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## WindyTexans (Jun 23, 2021)

Don L said:


> My suggestion to you is to not get over scared about the sailing stuff and allow fear to determine your choices. You will be much better served, in my opinion as someone who has full cruised the last 5 years in the same places you indicate, to spend most of your time considering the liveaboard features of your boat choice. Most comfortable cruiser for their size are going to be just fine sailing boats. But some good sailing boats make terrible live on cruising boats.


Again, great info.

I suppose I should be looking for comfort, more than anything at this point. I don't plan on sailing in any hurricane (and, as you said, the weather will be known before I go). I suppose longer stays out in the islands should still be based on comfort. We dive and snorkel a lot, so ease of entry and exit is also a consideration.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

You need a fold down transom. And NO a sugar scoop is no where near the same for access. Of course maybe you are one of "I am going to grow younger and my knees better as I age" types


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## WindyTexans (Jun 23, 2021)

Don L said:


> You need a fold down transom. And NO a sugar scoop is no where near the same for access. Of course maybe you are one of "I am going to grow younger and my knees better as I age" types


LOL on the knees. Really liked the boats I have seen photos of, that have the fold-down transom. Not too worried about following seas.


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## Greenwave (Jan 12, 2020)

Howdy and welcome. My 2 cents… give the Catalinas a good look. There are several models in the 36-42 foot range that would work well for you, and something with 10-15 years of age on it would be a great value buy. As was suggesTed, get plenty of solar and don’t get wedded to electric cooking. Propane is easy and readily available in your cruising ground.
where in Texas are you at present?


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## jtsailjt (Aug 1, 2013)

WindyTexans said:


> Thanks for your input. As the saying goes: it's what I don't know I don't know. Hence getting everyone's input. I guess most of the cruising will be the Gulf Coast, East Coast, and the islands from the Bahamas on down. I've seen discussions on strength-of-hull in heavy weather, and want to make sure there are not problems with that.
> 
> Am also curious about in-mast roller furling. Think it sounds like a good idea, but don't want the possible nightmare of a jam, when heavy weather is coming, when sail with dual, or perhaps triple reefing with lazyjacks may be just as good.
> 
> ...


The "nightmare" of a jam with heavy weather coming is just that, something someone dreamed up but I've never heard of anyone it's ever actually happened to. In mast roller furling jams are extremely rare (except on charter boats with inexperienced users) once you've practiced using it for awhile and when they do occur, they almost always prevent you from unfurling but don't prevent you from furling it back in, so it's not much of a safety issue. We've had lots of discussions about this issue and all the pros/cons of in mast vs in boom vs traditional reefing mainsails so no need to rehash it all here but a jam that prevents you from reducing sail area just as heavy weather approaches is probably less likely than being sunk by a lightning strike. But the ability to easily snd safely adjudt sail area without leaving the cockpit is a real advantage during moderate and heavy weather. Yes, there's a small performance penalty on a cruising boat and that's important to some people. Weigh all the plusses and minuses, along with the likelihood of them happening to you and then make your educated choice. Think about how many people have been injured or killed scrambling around a slippery deck with a swinging boom trying to reef or secure a sail versus those injured or killed by a jammed roller furling mainsail.

Your other fear you've expressed is propane and I think most of those horror stories are way 'overblown' too. Yes, once in a great while we hear of a propane explosion on a boat, but again, the likelihood of it happening to you aboard a well maintained boat is almost nil. Most cruising sailboats have an electrically controlled solenoid valve in the vented propane storage area that allows you to remotely stop the flow of propane just a few inches from your propane bottle. If a leak occurs in there, it flows harmlessly overboard through a hose. If the valve loses electrical power it fails closed. The switch that controls this valve should be located near the stove and have an indicator light that illuminates when the propane is turned on and it should only be turned on when you are actually using the stove and turned off immediately afterwards. Stoves on boats don't have pilot lights and the burners automatically shut off the flow of propane if they blow out. The line from your propane tank to your stove will be continuous with no intermediate connections that might allow a leak into your bilge. The only connection outside your propane storage area is to the short flexible line that connects to your gimballed stove and if this ever leaks while you are cooking, since it's located in your living space rather than in your bilge you'll probably smell it long before enough leaks to cause an explosion. A propane detector that will warn you of a propane leak is also a good idea and only cost a little over $100. Another option is to have a multilayered, continuous, flexible hose run all the way from your propane locker to the stove. With a properly set up system and disciplined use of your solenoid valve, propane is an extremely safe source of energy for cooking. On the other hand, cooking with electricity aboard a boat pretty much demands that you have a generator running. You might use an inverter for very short periods but every time you cook a meal, you'll need to be cranking up the genset or risk depleting your batteries. I don't think it's practical except on large yachts with almost constantly running generators.

I have a hard top with two 175W panels on it, along with a wind generator. These do a great job of keeping up with refrigeration with a little left over but there's no way they could begin to supply enough energy for cooking too. It might be possible on a catamaran with acres of horizontal surface area on which to place panels, but very hard to find enough unshaded surface area on a monohull to have enough solar to cook with along with all your other electrical needs.
Good luck with narrowing down all the many choices you're being confronted with, but try not to get too spooked by 'nightmare' scenarios that are extremely rare. The better you understand the systems on your boat the more comfortable you will be that you can operate them safely, so the more you can learn, both before and after you buy, the happier and safer feeling you'll be.


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## WindyTexans (Jun 23, 2021)

jtsailjt said:


> The "nightmare" of a jam with heavy weather coming is just that, something someone dreamed up but I've never heard of anyone it's ever actually happened to. In mast roller furling jams are extremely rare (except on charter boats with inexperienced users) once you've practiced using it for awhile and when they do occur, they almost always prevent you from unfurling but don't prevent you from furling it back in, so it's not much of a safety issue. We've had lots of discussions about this issue and all the pros/cons of in mast vs in boom vs traditional reefing mainsails so no need to rehash it all here but a jam that prevents you from reducing sail area just as heavy weather approaches is probably less likely than being sunk by a lightning strike. But the ability to easily snd safely adjudt sail area without leaving the cockpit is a real advantage during moderate and heavy weather. Yes, there's a small performance penalty on a cruising boat and that's important to some people. Weigh all the plusses and minuses, along with the likelihood of them happening to you and then make your educated choice. Think about how many people have been injured or killed scrambling around a slippery deck with a swinging boom trying to reef or secure a sail versus those injured or killed by a jammed roller furling mainsail.
> 
> Your other fear you've expressed is propane and I think most of those horror stories are way 'overblown' too. Yes, once in a great while we hear of a propane explosion on a boat, but again, the likelihood of it happening to you aboard a well maintained boat is almost nil. Most cruising sailboats have an electrically controlled solenoid valve in the vented propane storage area that allows you to remotely stop the flow of propane just a few inches from your propane bottle. If a leak occurs in there, it flows harmlessly overboard through a hose. If the valve loses electrical power it fails closed. The switch that controls this valve should be located near the stove and have an indicator light that illuminates when the propane is turned on and it should only be turned on when you are actually using the stove and turned off immediately afterwards. Stoves on boats don't have pilot lights and the burners automatically shut off the flow of propane if they blow out. The line from your propane tank to your stove will be continuous with no intermediate connections that might allow a leak into your bilge. The only connection outside your propane storage area is to the short flexible line that connects to your gimballed stove and if this ever leaks while you are cooking, since it's located in your living space rather than in your bilge you'll probably smell it long before enough leaks to cause an explosion. A propane detector that will warn you of a propane leak is also a good idea and only cost a little over $100. Another option is to have a multilayered, continuous, flexible hose run all the way from your propane locker to the stove. With a properly set up system and disciplined use of your solenoid valve, propane is an extremely safe source of energy for cooking. On the other hand, cooking with electricity aboard a boat pretty much demands that you have a generator running. You might use an inverter for very short periods but every time you cook a meal, you'll need to be cranking up the genset or risk depleting your batteries. I don't think it's practical except on large yachts with almost constantly running generators.
> 
> ...


Good info, thanks!
I like the idea of a furling main. I agree with the reefing issue, during a storm (hopefully have enough sense to do it before the blow gets there.
On longer cruises, how many "meals" do you get from a propane tank? 
Thanks, again!


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

A 10lb tank of propane lasts the 2 of us 1-2 months of full time living


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## jtsailjt (Aug 1, 2013)

WindyTexans said:


> Good info, thanks!
> I like the idea of a furling main. I agree with the reefing issue, during a storm (hopefully have enough sense to do it before the blow gets there.
> On longer cruises, how many "meals" do you get from a propane tank?
> Thanks, again!


Dons estimate sounds pretty typical to me, but if you only have one 10# tank you can get an adapter that will allow you to attach one of those little one pound bottles to your propane line in case your 10# bottle runs out. You can keep a couple of them in reserve and they'll provide enough propane to get you to the next port where you can get your main tank refilled.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

you need to have 2 tanks! especially if they are the smaller 10# tanks

don't even start to try to talk yourself into some other answer, ben there done that


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## jtsailjt (Aug 1, 2013)

Don L said:


> you need to have 2 tanks! especially if they are the smaller 10# tanks
> 
> don't even start to try to talk yourself into some other answer, ben there done that


If he's got a place to store 2 tanks that's ideal (and what I have too) but if his boat isn't set up with a vented propane locker big enough for 2 of the 10 or 20 lb tanks, having the adapter and 1 or 2 of those little tanks that may already be onboard for the barbecue grill and are.much easier to store buys you enough time so you can still use your stove until your next visit to a place where your main tank can be refilled. Been there done that too and it worked just fine. If a 10# bottle lasts you about 45 days, a couple of those 1# bottles will last more than a week which is usually enough time to find a place to get your main tank refilled.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Yes, maybe. Probably a lot easier to find a refill place when you have a car. Couple months ago it took me 3 weeks to get to one. I have gotten low enough on my second bottle while looking for a place to finally take a $15 Uber to go to a refill location, $12 on the fill, and $15 on the Uber to come back. And that was in the boonies of the Chesapeake.

Up to each.


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