# Paying to anchor



## sailena (Mar 10, 2006)

I am doing research on any anchorages that are now charging a fee. I would appreciate any information. The Vineyard Haven Harbormaster is trying to convince the Selectmen to charge an anchorage fee in Lake Tashmoo. No services come with the fee. The pump-out boat is paid from the Clean Waters Grant so that cannot be a paid service. Does any know of any other harbor where this is an issue?


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I have never encountered, or heard of, a fee charged for dropping your own anchor. I believe Tashmoo is seawater, and ocean cannot be owned by anyone, nor can the ocean's bottom . . . unless it falls above the mean high water mark. But who would ever drop an anchor above MHW at high tide?

However, if this is motivated by an environmental issue, such as boaters emtying their heads directly overboard, raising the fecal bacteria count in Lake Tashmoo, then maybe the Town will elect to do as Edgartown has recently done. Edgartown's Katama Bay is now off limits to anchorages for that reason. 

By charging a fee, perhaps the logic is - more control by informing each boat owner of the no discharge rules.

As with Edgartown, and if Vineyard Haven bans anchoring in the "Lake", this leaves cruisers no other option but to anchor in the exposed outer harbor, or reserve one of the scarce Town moorings. The Vineyard Haven Harbormaster's proposal should be denied by the Selectmen, if they have any sense at all.


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## Silmaril (Feb 22, 2003)

*Similar Fee in Block Island*

If you anchor at either the Salt Pond or Old Harbor in Block Island, they charge a "Landing Fee". Anchoring is free, but if you want to come ashore, they charge you.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Here in Marathon the Florida Keys the bottom is owned by the state.They are filling the anchorages with moorings and they control the harbor and are driving all anchoring vessels out. They say harbor management but it is really harbor take over. The anchoring rights will be seven spots for emergency anchoring only. They plan to install 160 new moorings this year on top of the ones they have already. this place will be like a trailer park in a year. Nice straight lines of boats with dollar signs on each one.All along the Florida coast they are doing the same thing. Marina Age a magazine on "marinas" showed a drawing of Boot Key Harbor all condos and mega yachts which is what they want. You and I most of the people on this site are not welcome here. The law Enforcement harasses cruisers the City charges more and more to bring your dink ashore for parking and water, pump outs,parking mandatory inspections a list of regs you cant keep up with. The beach is closed to dingy traffic so is the access to the grocery stores you have to taxi or walk or buy a car to get anything. Leave your boat for to long they will drag it on the rocks and strip it and cut it up " Harbor Managment". All this is big money driving out the live aboard and cruising sailors. They will say oh no we love you guys "CRAP OLA" they hate you ,your cheep way of seeing the world like as if you have the plague. Florida is not boater friendly read the www.waterfrontnews.com and read what is going on. It is a loss to all boaters world wide the people with big budgets just go with it. If your young or retired or a dreamer and wanted to just lay back forget Florida. Laws regs more laws and regs miss one and your fined sometimes hundreds of dollars like the guy "rowing" his dink and had a couple of beers BUSTED $1400 that is a crime in its self. They will board you late at night while you on the hook and get every one up so they can shine flashlights in your eyes and ask questions and see if they can find a hole in a life jacket or something to right you a ticket for.If we the people don't do something to stop this sort of thing they will close the water front to all of us in ten years. You will have to pay to look at the ocean, think I am blowing smoke look real close. Ohhhh Crap! I have written to people in Washington D.C. about this kind of thing and other issues as far as our rights being stepped on some listen few do anything. This is out fight Join NBRF National Boaters Rights Federation coming to your area soon NBRF.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Unfortunately, in the current political climate, the rights of the people are getting trampled left and right, especially in search of the almighty dollar.


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## seamountie (May 29, 2001)

They tried this up in Canada. It didn't fly. Here, (and you might check your regs, south of the 49th) anchoring is considered part of navigation, and you cannot charge for transiting navigable waters. Besides, the control of said waters lies with the Feds, not city nor province.

Landing fees, yes you can charge. Using mooring buoys, yes. But not anchoring.

Richard
S/V Gandalf III


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

In the US, underwater lands were sometimes granted owners going back to Royal Patents in the colonial days. More recently, they were sold by the US to various states and towns in order to raise money for war bonds in WW2. So...yes, the bottom and the anchoring rights may BELONG to someone, by law, even if you are allowed the right to sail over them. By law.

You have to research the rights area by area, and if the owners want to charge you for dropping a hook--there's nothing you can do, unless you are one of the owners (voters) and you vote for free anchoring.


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## bigreddo (Apr 24, 2006)

In 2005 the Bay Constable in Montauk Lake (Montauk, Long Island, NY) told me there would be a $25 fee for anchoring in the harbor for more than one night, so the first night was free. I believe there was also a limit as to how long you could stay at anchor.


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## Grumpy#3 (Dec 29, 2005)

*where are the big boy's??*

This mooring, docking and anchoring situation is getting worse by the day.
The strange thing about anyone putting up a fight is that you never hear of Hunter, Catalina and all the manufacturers sounding off.
They maybe only interested in selling new boats but they get old afterthe first payment.
It seems that they are leaving the little guys to hang out to dry.
We need to get an all inclusive movemnt going, NOW.


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## lv4sailing (May 22, 2004)

so what are you waiting for you start others will fallow


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## hamiam (Dec 15, 2000)

*can boatus help?*

perhaps boatus would take up this cause; they lobby for boaters as part of their service package.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

"The strange thing about anyone putting up a fight is that you never hear of Hunter, Catalina and all the manufacturers sounding off."
Why is that strange? Do GM and Ford demand free indoor parking for your car? Of course not. 
Just because boaters are ignorant of property rights, doesn't mean boaters have the right to confiscate private property. If you want to do that, you get the local government to take it by eminent domain, and then declare it to be a free municipal anchorage. 
Oh, wait a minute, that's right...it ain't gonna be free unless you LIVE THERE. Might as well campaign for free room and board anytime you want to travel with your car. You'll get that sooner.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

jared said:


> Just because boaters are ignorant of property rights, doesn't mean boaters have the right to confiscate private property.


Huh? I thought this thread was about anchoring. Last I heard the sea is not private property.

Reminds me of a friend in ME who anchored in a nice cove for the night and soon afterward a homeowner on shore hailed him and told him he couldn't anchor there. Where do people get the idea that they own the water?

Paul


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

jared said:


> "The strange thing about anyone putting up a fight is that you never hear of Hunter, Catalina and all the manufacturers sounding off."
> Why is that strange? Do GM and Ford demand free indoor parking for your car? Of course not.
> Just because boaters are ignorant of property rights, doesn't mean boaters have the right to confiscate private property. If you want to do that, you get the local government to take it by eminent domain, and then declare it to be a free municipal anchorage.
> Oh, wait a minute, that's right...it ain't gonna be free unless you LIVE THERE. Might as well campaign for free room and board anytime you want to travel with your car. You'll get that sooner.


I hate to break it to you Jared, but the water past the low-tide line is generally considered public lands in most cases. Navigation is governed federally, not by individual states, and water on navigable bodies below the low-water mark is considered navigable...and generally under federal jurisdiction.

Indoor parking for cars is totally different, as the land that the parking lot is on is generally owned by a private person or company. The ocean is not owned by anyone.


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## Mkfcdl (Mar 11, 2003)

*Parking for free*

Regarding parking...if I'm traveling cross-country by car and need to pull in some place for the night to park and sleep in my car, I can pull into an interstate rest area for free. It certainly doesn't have the security of a motel (mooring) or the amenities of a hotel (marina), but it's free at my own risk.

Why should anchoring in federal waters be any different?

(And I should add that I usually pick the expensive marinas for the wife's sake but ability to pay for luxury shouldn't diminish the rights of others.)


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## FormerAdministrator (Jan 10, 2000)

I paid $20/night for an anchorage at John Pennenkamp state park in the keys last year - well worth it... beautiful place.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Anchoring in a state park is often a different matter. The anchoring fees there go to maintain the park. Driving within the park often requires that you pay a fee to enter the park, so I don't really have a problem with that. 

What irks me is the cities/towns/states that charge you to anchor in otherwise open bays, harbors and rivers, that are freely navigable. 

Some towns have taken a different approach and have instituted landing fees. This is far less objectionable, as it is only charged to those who go ashore, usually as a fee to use a dinghy dock.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

Like sailnaway i live in Florida and it is very unfriendly to boaters if your boat is less that a million - i live in miami and have seen my dock fees double in two years and we are losing marinas to high rise condos -the city and county are taking control of the waterways and making it almost impossible to anchor - in miami beach they will actually tow your boat out of their waters if you stay more than a few days (i forget the actual) as they claim cruisers are riff raft and they really don't wnat them - soon the only people who will have boats are those that can tow them and take them home at night and the million dollar boats as the rest will be chased out. i can't wait to see how soon the entire marine industry in south fla goes through a depression when all of a sudden the only thing to work on is 20-25' boats on trailers. 
as for me as soon as i can sell my house i'm outa here. 
chuck and soulmates


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## Rickm505 (Sep 4, 2005)

There is an active thread on the Cruisers Forum on this subject. I guess it's not surprising as it's a subject that is near and dear to us all.

I had posted this .....

The right of navigation never had an anchoring time limit of any kind attached to it. What actually happened is that in 1953 Congress past the "Submerged Land Act.", which essentially handed over rights to waterways (out to the three mile limit) to the individual States, removing the US Federal Government from the discussion. This law was upheld in 1977 by the US Supreme Court.

When it becomes a State issue rather than a Federal issue, it's now 100% local politics. 

He who has the most money wins or.... might makes 'right'. Or... Damn the public, 'full speed ahead"

Rick in Florida


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## chuck711 (Dec 25, 2002)

*We have ruined it for all..........*

If you've ever anchored in St. Augustine you would understand why cities are forced to put in moorings and forbid anchoring. Because of the warm weather and ability to live outside year round, the over crowded anchorage is filled with squatters. "Boats" that have no motors and that have not moved in years inhabited by in most cases homeless people that rowed out and found a abandened boat that they broken into to live on. We cruisers have ruined it for everyone! By nature we spend very little money. Why would a city want us there? Even St. Mary's in Georgia. They love boaters, yet there is a period of time you can stay there,past that you get fined. Sadly we need these restrictions in place to keep a city's
waterfront not an eyesore. It only takes a few bad apples to ruin it for everyone.........


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

chuck711 said:


> If you've ever anchored in St. Augustine you would understand why cities are forced to put in moorings and forbid anchoring. Because of the warm weather and ability to live outside year round, the over crowded anchorage is filled with squatters. "Boats" that have no motors and that have not moved in years inhabited by in most cases homeless people that rowed out and found a abandened boat that they broken into to live on. We cruisers have ruined it for everyone! By nature we spend very little money. Why would a city want us there? Even St. Mary's in Georgia. They love boaters, yet there is a period of time you can stay there,past that you get fined. Sadly we need these restrictions in place to keep a city's
> waterfront not an eyesore. It only takes a few bad apples to ruin it for everyone.........


If you are anchored you are not squatting. We all have an equal right to use an anchorage.

Is the only acceptable boat one with a motor? This is _Sailnet_ is it not?

Harbors are full of "homeless" people that have broken into other people's boats? You have got to be kidding, right?

Of course we spend money. I certainly have. I think of the harbors I've been to that are friendly and accepting of cruisers - Cape May, NJ, Annapolis, MD, Elizabeth City, NC, Beaufort, NC - I spent several days at each and spent plenty of money.

Eyesore is in the eye of the beholder. I think any boat with more than 9.9 hp should be prohibited from anchoring along with any Mac 26 that is still floating.


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## chuck711 (Dec 25, 2002)

*Homeless Squatters on a Cities waterfront*

PaulThober
Sadly its true... St. Augustine, the inner harbor of Gustovia (St. Barts), Marigot Bay ( St. Martin)or Chaguaramas ( Trinidad). Boats that haven't moved in years or been sitting de-masted not able to move much less sail adds nothing to the sport of sailing and what this great website stands for. 
They put out so much rode (150-200 feet)in order to hold forever and as a result the anchorage area is greatly reduced ( they ping around everywhere with the tides). The waterfront is an eyesore as well as a detriment to property values. 
We aren't talking about the types of anchorages such you mentioned ( Cape May, NJ, Annapolis, MD, Elizabeth City, NC, Beaufort, NC ) these are normal transist areas people come and go. Also other than NC they have winter to contend with.
As a cruiser who anchored out everyday except 3 days for 2 years out. What do you really spend? Fuel and groceries. $500-$700 month. Less once you get away from the USA.
Since we agree to anchor you are not going into a marina. You might eat out once in a while or have a drink. But likely you are getting together with other cruisers and living on a budget.
In Florida most of the cities are forced to enact tough laws to keep the water clean with some form of civility! I doubt these people are moving their boats in to pumpout.

In the USA I've only seen this in Florida. I assume its because of the weather. Also in Florida by law you can't sleep on the beach. If you could I'm sure you would have tent cities poping up.


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## sailphoto (Apr 26, 2006)

If the real purpose of the laws prohibiting anchoring are to discourage squatters, then they could be formed to allow active cruisers to anchor as well. A rule requiring registration with the harbor master, for instance would allow proper notification of the rules and could limit the number of consecutive ddays that anchoring is acceptable. For instance a harbor could require cruisers to prove ownership of the vessel, inform them of the harbor rules, and require 2 days absence from the anchorage after a one or two week stay. Alternately they could limit stays to a maximum of two weeks per month. 
Unfortunately I don't think this is the intent of the lawmakers in these towns. I think they ultimately want to clean up the view from the 15th floor condos! 
Action is very difficult to organize because there are so many different towns to address. Perhaps the only thing to do is to boycott the towns and marinas that have these rules until the local marine business's feel the pinch and make noise on a local level?


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