# Essential Navigation Equipment?



## snider (Jun 26, 2006)

If you were going to set sail for Europe from the east coast of America, or say to Australia via South Africa what nav equipment would you consider a must?

I'd like to keep it simple, couple of hand held GPS's, paper nav and pilot charts, and sextant. I guess a SSB would be a nice luxury for weather and coms but wouldn't consider it a must. Oh yeah.... I guess a compass would come in handy to! 

A friend of mine was telling me about something he read in slocums book where slocum was saying how it was ashamed how people didn't think you could sail around the world without a chronometer. Got me thinking about this. It always amazes me at what people think they "need" to navigate. 

His book has got to be the only sailing related book I haven't read....guess I'm saving the best for last!

What do you guys think?


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

Charts - paper and electronic
Compass - calibrated
Fathometer
VHF - fixed and handheld
GPS - fixed and handheld
Radar
SSB - marine/ham
Sextant, tables, almanac
RDF

....in that order

Bill

ps...don't forget the 406 EPIRB 

B.


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## svs3 (Jun 23, 2006)

What size boat are talking about?

I ask because the the smaller the boat, it seems to me, more unreliable the electronic become and, of course, the less room there is to store spares and backups.


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

If the boat is really tiny (think MiniTransat), can the radar. Otherwise, the list stands.

IMHO.

Bill


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I would put the SSB ahead of the radar and eliminate the Sextant & RDF in favor of TWO more $100 GPS units in a pelican box with LOTS of AA batteries but otherwise agree with Bill for any size boat. I would also add a Weems & Plath course protactor instead of traditional parallel rules.

And add a liferaft to that EPIRB!


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## slocum2 (Jul 4, 2003)

I guess its a sign of the times we live in when a sextant is down at the bottom of the list an three or four back-up GPS units come first. A decent sextant and a good watch will take you anywhere. Of course you will need charts when you get there and the SSB is critical for offshore communications and the time-check to set your Timex 

For safety sake, no one should go far offshore without an EBIRB.


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

slocum,

Yeah, Cam apparently has infinite faith in the GPS system. Sorry, but I don't.

Interesting that many offshore race requirements include the need for TWO completely separate means of fixing your position at sea. Two GPS's don't qualify. A GPS and an RDF or a sextant or a Loran do. 

I carry two RDFs and two sextants and two Lorans and four GPS's aboard. Guess I'm just paranoid.

BTW, there's a very interesting article in the new Boat U.S. magazine, SeaWorthy, on p8 on "Electronically Aided Collisions". Lots of grist for old geezers like me who believe the new electronic toys -- in the hands of many current boaters -- can be DANGEROUS to your health 

Bill


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## slocum2 (Jul 4, 2003)

Thanks for the thread, I'll check it out.

The danger of "neat" tools like GPS assisted electroinc charts is that video becomes reality for many people. Use your GPS and your ECDIS, but trust your eyes and don't forget to *look* where you're going

slocum2


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## snider (Jun 26, 2006)

*You reminded me of something!*

Yeah you think LOOKING would be your first instinct, I was in an offshore race a few months ago where we had to pass offshore of a sea buoy, when we thought we should be seeing it of course we got out the binocs and started looking, turns out the coasties had moved the buoy a mile and a half farther out to see than the GPS said. We were just able to point up enough to clear the buoy. Out of the three other boats that were in sight, the next boat back sailed almost directly to were the buoy was supposed to be before realizing the mistake and tacking, and the other two boats admittedly split the difference because they didn't know who was right! By the way it was an exceptionaly clear day. We one the race!



slocum2 said:


> Thanks for the thread, I'll check it out.
> 
> The danger of "neat" tools like GPS assisted electroinc charts is that video becomes reality for many people. Use your GPS and your ECDIS, but trust your eyes and don't forget to *look* where you're going
> 
> slocum2


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Charts - paper and electronic
Compass - calibrated and handbearing
Fathometer
VHF - fixed and handheld
GPS - fixed and handheld
Sextant, tables, almanac 
Binoculars, preferably with integral compass
Shortwave radio receiver (for time ticks, weather, etc)
SSB - marine/ham
Radar
RDF

I'd put the sextant above the SSB, but move the SSB above the RADAR... RDF isn't as necessary nowadays, especially with GPS but does provide a good alternative. I'd also add a good set of binoculars as part of the navigation kit. A GPS-equipped 406 EPIRB is probably not a bad idea either, but would be about level with the SSB on my list.

Of course, your best piece of navigation gear is the Mark I eyeball. Don't forget to use it. The little icon of the sailboat on the GPS chartplotter doesn't really mean squat if the electronic charts are wrong....the Mark I eyeball will tell you if that is the case or not.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

Anyone who has spent much time in the fog moves Radar closer to the top of the list. Lots of Radars have a setting that allows them to turn on for a minute, take a peak at your guard zone and then shut back off or sound an alarm. I like electronics, but when trying to hit the mouth of Deception Pass on a foggy and/or stormy night, Radar rates even higher than a chart plotter.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

We've had the GPS vs. Sextant discussion here at length here before so I don't intend to get into another long winded dicussion but since some of you mentioned reasons to carry both... I will say that i find no practical purpose in carrying a sextant in this day and age other than for personal pleasure in practicing the art of celestial. GPS's are 100x more accurate, and more reliable 24x7x365 and in all kinds of weather and a half a dozen may be purchased for the price of one decent sextant and operated by anyone on board, not just the "wizard" in an emergency. The day the handful I have on board stop working...we'll have a hard time seeing the sun as well! 
Ok....gotta go practice my long division in case my calculator breaks and I can't find another one that works!


P.S. Please understand that when I refer to GPS I am NOT referring to GPS chartplotters which I only regard as nice to have nd potentially dangerous in the wrong hands or when relied upon as a primary tool


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

From a minimalist standpoint, with an eye to safety over convenience, I'd put radar ahead of GPS, fathometer, and a bunch of other stuff.
Offshore you can survive without knowing where you're at within a hundred miles. Not necessarily desirable-but do-able.
Radar shines when you really need it. Running the coast. Restricted visibility. Next to the Mark 1 Model 0 Precision EyeBall radar is the next best thing because it does, in essence, what your eyes do.

Of course GPS is so cheap that...

A box of pencils is something that might be overlooked, and under-appreciated, until you don't have one!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Part of the problem is that Radar is rather power hungry... it is also relatively heavy compared to much of the other gear listed. If the person is on a small boat, sailing in tropical waters, then radar becomes much less of an necessity... if they are on a larger boat, sailing in high latitudes, then it is probably much higher on the list. Much of the list depends on the boat and the areas being sailed/cruised.

In some areas GPS is really not a good idea...as the electronic charts are not really accurate, and using more traditional methods, like binoculars, hand-bearing compasses and charts is going to be safer than using GPS. 

Also, radar, without the experience and training to interpret what it is showing, is not all that useful from what I've seen. Unless you understand the limitations of the technology, it is hard to really use it safely. I know one skipper who went aground in fog, because the radar wasn't able to see a long, shallow sandy point... 

Radar by itself is not a miracle navigation tool. Either is GPS.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

SD...you are mixing up GPS with electronic charts. GPS and paper charts is the MOST accurate means of navigation.
Sailaway....trying to set that hook again? <g>


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

Camaraderie wrote:

"P.S. Please understand that when I refer to GPS I am NOT referring to GPS chartplotters which I only regard as nice to have nd potentially dangerous in the wrong hands or when relied upon as a primary tool. 
GPS and paper charts is the MOST accurate means of navigation."

The two statements seem contrary to each other. Personally, I use all sorts of tools to help me miss the hard things. When things start getting dicey, I don't take the time to plot lat/lon on a paper chart. I have the chart plotter within view of the helm and I have a hand bearing compass that I use to confirm LOP's to visible charted objects. I've also been in a few anchorages in Canada, that by the chart plotter or plotting the position on a paper chart shows the boat anchored firmly in the woods (possibly either old chart datum or GPS signal degraded by topography) So in that instance, eyeballing it and then comparing the surroundings to a paper chart is more accurate than a GPS.

As to the sextant, I guess telling some sailors that one is not required is like telling a woodsman there is no reason to carry an alternative way to make fire because BIC lighters are cheap and reliable. There's just a bunch of us that enjoy being able to use the cheap and easy way of doing things, but if that fails, we have something else to fall back on. I'd almost bet money that sextant people are people who would carry a flint/magnesium block in the woods with them along with a little handheld compass.

And as far as the comment on practicing long division, has anyone else noticed that it's almost impossible to get change at a store if the cash register is on the fritz? The sextant argument must be a blue state/red state kind of thing.

Ray


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Erps...
Well...of course the chart datum method and the GPS datum method must match or else you might as well be looking at a road map. This is easily checked and adjusted since all charts have their datum method recorded. But assuming you have a lat/long from the GPS and the datums are the same...you won't find yourself plotting a mark somewhere in the woods. 
With some really old charts based on really old data of course the charts themselves may be wrong about where the land is located. So I'll agree that your own eyes are THE most reliable form of navigation...provided you can see something. I know that at night...mine play a lot of tricks on me and NOT to rely on them. So it is situational and even the "flint strikers" here <grin> will agree that no single method of navigation should be relied on! 
BTW...in case you hadn't guessed...I'm the guy with a pocket full of Bics in waterproof bags!


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## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

I have quite a few sextants and sail with at least two onboard. After my landfall at Bermuda in 2005 which was my first use of GPS (my friends boat and GPS) on a trip I think I will buy a GPS but having the sextants is a cheap form of insurance and if you look at Ken Barnes and his all electronic boat without even a magnetic compass you might temper your reliance on the electron and technology.

The better use for a sextant today is its power to predict an offshore sailor’s skill at boat handling and general proficiency. If someone has taken the time to learn the use of a sextant he is more likely to have also taken an interest in other subjects dealing with the boat and you might reasonably think he is more prepared to go offshore then someone who has no interest or background in the history and arts of the sailor. No guarantee but you might be surprised at how overall skill and experience are connected by the study of something (sailing in this case) based on an interest in doing that something (sailing) well.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Robert...while we can disagree about the importance of sextants as a navigation tool...I think you are absolutely right about most who have taken the time to learn it being fairly competent overall. That got me thinking about other "indicators"...
Knowledge of Knots and how to use them appropriately
Knowledge of coastal plotting skills
A traditional looking boat in Bristol condition
A coast guard inspection sticker on the boat
...might there be others?

Of course we may learn that Ken Barnes had a backup sextant on board and knew how to use it! <grin>


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> SD...you are mixing up GPS with electronic charts. GPS and paper charts is the MOST accurate means of navigation.
> Sailaway....trying to set that hook again? <g>


Actually, the most accurate form of navigation is coastal piloting using the Mark I eyeball, and significant landmarks, with local charts that are up-to-date. There is no problem then with chart datum, or the fact that the charts aren't actually representing the latitude and longitude they think they are. 

GPS is very accurate, but reliance on electronics, especially on a small (<40') sailboat is generally unwise. Celestial navigation is going to get you close enough to land to make landfall with a little effort. Once you're near shore, the fact that celestial navigation is only accurate to ±2 miles for many people is moot. *Having the proper charts for the areas you are sailing in is a necessity. *


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## Gary M (May 9, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> Erps...
> Well...of course the chart datum method and the GPS datum method must match or else you might as well be looking at a road map. This is easily checked and adjusted since all charts have their datum method recorded. But assuming you have a lat/long from the GPS and the datums are the same...you won't find yourself plotting a mark somewhere in the woods.
> With some really old charts based on really old data of course the charts themselves may be wrong about where the land is located. So I'll agree that your own eyes are THE most reliable form of navigation...provided you can see something. I know that at night...mine play a lot of tricks on me and NOT to rely on them. So it is situational and even the "flint strikers" here <grin> will agree that no single method of navigation should be relied on!
> BTW...in case you hadn't guessed...I'm the guy with a pocket full of Bics in waterproof bags!




Old charts, old data??

Cam it has been my experience that the rocks rarely move .

The Canadian Hydrographic Service about 10 years ago finally got around to surveying an area on northern Lake Huron in the " North Channel". 
Until then the charts for one fairly large area was still based on the "sounding by Admiral Bayfield" from his 1850s survey work. I sailed using that chart many times and found it to be extremely accurate. I have no idea how he did it.

I know they sent a boat out to row around and take sounding while they took bearings from land but have no idea how they related back to a known location.

PS I would carry a sextant, even with a cheap Davis I usually can get within 2-3 miles.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Gary...I don't know about Canadian charts but there is documentation that there are several charted islands in the south pacific where existing most current government paper charts have the islands several miles from their actual location!


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

Let's be honest. GPS, radar, sextant, charts,etc are all so damn cheap in today's consumer society that allows you to buy them all if you want to.
pigslo


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## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> Gary...I don't know about Canadian charts but there is documentation that there are several charted islands in the south pacific where existing most current government paper charts have the islands several miles from their actual location!


That's true and the error is mostly in longitude. Until Harrison's chronometer latitude was surprisingly accurate and longitude was a bit iffy. As the time reference became more accurate the measurement of longitude improved. Before that some base points were established by using the transit of a moon or an eclipse as the reference to GMT.

If you are using some of the old British charts it works if you sail down a latitude and keep in mind that the island might pop up unexpectedly because of the longitude problem. And of course the GPS will give you the precise longitude but you might find the island is not where you expect.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## Gary M (May 9, 2006)

Thanks Robert, I was just about say that as far as I knew until GPS there was nothing except the sextant to establish your location so I could see being a little off. I wonder is that is how Bayfield did it? 

I guess with the correct time you would just take a number of star sites and get a pretty accurate location. Latitude was just derived from a sun site correct? 

Gary


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## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

Gary M said:


> Thanks Robert, I was just about say that as far as I knew until GPS there was nothing except the sextant to establish your location so I could see being a little off. I wonder is that is how Bayfield did it?
> 
> I guess with the correct time you would just take a number of star sites and get a pretty accurate location. Latitude was just derived from a sun site correct?
> 
> Gary


You can get latitude from a number of types of sights. The simplest latitude is from the noon sight of the sun and if you subtract the corrected altitude from 90 degrees and add the declination of the sun for that day you get latitude. This also works for what they call a meridian transit of any body. That's a fancy way of saying the point at which the body is exactly south of you or the local apparent noon for that body.

You can also get very good latitude from a sight of the North Star and if you know the time you can get latitude and longitude from a group of star sights or planets. The corrected altitude of the North Star twice a day (at the right time) is latitude without correction and at any other time of day it's within 58 miles with out any corrections.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## svs3 (Jun 23, 2006)

I guess the only wrinkles I would add to this thread is that I would rank the primary piece of gear and its backup on the same level of necessity and, particularly on small boats, the need for a non-electronic backups for pieces of electronic gear. For example, I would place myself firmly in the sextant as a needed piece of gear, therefore to me a GPS and a sextant are equally important and occupy the same level on the hierarchy. Secondary and tertiary GPSs occupy a lower rung of the hierarchy. Another example would be a fathomometer and a lead line. While perhaps multiple copies of a single chart might be impractical, multiple charts of differing scales covering the same area do serve as a valid form of backup, especially when voyaging.

I am in full agreement with Robert's sentiment of sextant use as a good indicator of good seamanship and sailing skills. As well as the need to use one's eyes to confirm what your navigation is telling you.

Also, I find sextant use personally advantageous in two other areas. First, sextant use forces me to be an even that much more serious student of the sea, stars, wind, weather,etc.. The second point, and an admittedly romantic one, is that sextant use increases the connection I feel with past generations of seamen.

Sam


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

> I guess the only wrinkles I would add to this thread is that I would rank the primary piece of gear and its backup on the same level of necessity and, *particularly on small boats, the need for a non-electronic backups for pieces of electronic gear.*


Well said.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Captain Slocum sailed around the world with a "tin clock" his words, but he had spent his whole life sailing ships all over the world. By all means read his book. He was not only a truly great sailor but also a fine writer.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

A compass, a transistor radio, and a crew.

The compass is not really "essential" since I can sail by the sun well enough to find "Europe" as a goal.

The transistor radio, because it is small, light, and cheap, and when I can get local broadcasts clearly I know the coast is somewhere ahead. Again, not really essential, but cheap enough.

And the crew, because the most dangerous part of the trip will be making landfall on the hard sharp bits if I'm asleep. With crew, you can keep proper watches and avoid that.

Beyond that?

I guess it all depends on how tight you're defining "essential" to be.<G>


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## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> A compass, a transistor radio, and a crew.
> 
> The compass is not really "essential" since I can sail by the sun well enough to find "Europe" as a goal.
> 
> I guess it all depends on how tight you're defining "essential" to be.<G>


Running aground somewhere between England and Africa doesn't count as navigation. Someone sailed from Rhode Island intending to make landfall in England before the days of GPS. He knew he needed a sextant but he didn't know how to use one. He set out and took a book on navigation with him thinking that he had at least 30 days before needing to know where he was and he was sure he would learn by then. By the time he had read enough to find out he also needed tables and an almanac it was too late and he had to finish the trip without any navigation. He missed England and ran aground in France destroying his boat but surviving the landing. As far as I know he gave up on sailing and took up the bicycling instead.

I didn't pay much attention to this thread at first. But the truth is the minimum depends on how you want to navigate and how precise you want to be. In 1982 Marvin Creamer sailed his 36-foot steel-hulled cutter, Globe Star entirely around the world without any navigation equipment at all. No compass, sextant or any electronics. He did it but I think most other people would have problems doing navigation the way he did it.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I am somewhat perplexed about the amount of training cited to operate radar. Other than rapid radar plotting, a skill really only required on a fast moving boat and only for collision avoidance, the operation of radar is fairly easy and intuitive. Bearings derived from radar are likely to be more accurate than those taken from non-pelorus equipped boats, ie...hand held compass.

The potential of a radar assisted grounding or collision does exist. Much more likely is the possibility that radar will keep you safely offshore and out of dangerous water, long before you are on soundings. And, if you have been parallel sailing, and are heading north or south endeavoring to discover a recognizable landmark your radar return will probably gibe with what you see on your chart long before your own eye spots a definitive landmark. The Chesapeake Bay Bridge and Tunnel radar return, still not visible by eye, will assure you that you are not off Cape May and the Delaware Bay.

Power consumption can be mediated by usage, if that is a factor.

While on the subject of power consumption, and blithely ignoring same, a gyro compass would be extremely high on my list as a navigational tool.

Encouraged to see that no one thought to berate my strong feelings about pencils. I quite anticipated a pencil-necked geek to explain to me how technology had surpassed the lowly no. 2 lead.

Most over-rated, and potentially misused, navigational item has to be the chart plotter. I see little need for such an item-in fact, I would go so far as to say that if you are in a situation where you have to depend on it-versus plotting or using a paper chart-you are in an unsafe situation. Needless expense-needless power consumption.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Bob-
Since the stated goal was "Europe", yes, I'd say anyplace between England and Africa would fill the goal. Consider Lindburgh, shouting down to the ground "Is this Ireland?" en route to Paris.

"But the truth is the minimum depends on how you want to navigate and how precise you want to be. " Exactly! It's easy to get anywhere in the world, within a couple of hundred miles. Bus, car, train, plane...but it's always that last couple of miles, that last block, that become the stopper.<G>


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## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> Bob-
> Since the stated goal was "Europe", yes, I'd say anyplace between England and Africa would fill the goal. Consider Lindburgh, shouting down to the ground "Is this Ireland?" en route to Paris.
> 
> "But the truth is the minimum depends on how you want to navigate and how precise you want to be. " Exactly! It's easy to get anywhere in the world, within a couple of hundred miles. Bus, car, train, plane...but it's always that last couple of miles, that last block, that become the stopper.<G>


I marvel that Lindburgh got close enough to even ask that question. Doing Celestial Navigation with a bubble sextant isn't easy on the ground but how do you do it by yourself during a bumpy ride while also flying the aircraft.

I guess you go by the funnel theory of navigation. Get close enough and keep bouncing off the sides of an imaginary funnel until you get to the narrow end and into the harbor. I prefer to try and make things simple and go straight down the center and enter the harbor without the uncertainty and worry that goes with bouncing around blindly invoking gods name and hoping to avoid disaster just by luck. Different ships, different long splices I guess.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## JagsBch (Jan 19, 2007)

So the Radars may not be as vital of an instrument I had once assumed, considering my boat is small, and the fog factor is not really that big of an issue in the south.

I guess a liferaft to that EPIRB ought to be the #1 priority for a small boat out in the blue. 
GPS - fixed and handheld and your ECDIS; extra GPS units in a pelican box with LOTS of AA
Compass - calibrated and handbearing
Charts - paper and electronic 
Weems & Plath course protactor instead of traditional parallel rules?
VHF - fixed and handheld
SSB - marine/ham
Shortwave radio receiver (for time ticks, weather, etc)
Sextant, tables, almanac 
Binoculars, preferably with integral compass

Mark I eyeball, "flint strikers" coast guard inspection sticker, boat in bristol condition and pencils 

Loran
RDF 
Fathometer
Transistor radio
Radar that turn on and off to conserve energy?



I guess knowing how to use this stuff should be on top of the list. Like finding your longitude with the noon sighting and North Star, a sexton is kind of sexy dialing in your situational awareness, I have just got to learn how to use one no doubt, I guess it is just another way to get spiritually connected with the elements, oh there I go ranting again...

I am surprised no one said knot meter? I thought they along woth a depth finder would be on the top of the list.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

SEXTANT.....

A sexton is a marathon for sex!!!


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## padeu (Jan 6, 2007)

Yeah, look first. 
Recently I was sailing for 3 weeks with an older friend who just discovered the use of C-map. Most of the three week's coastal trip he was sitting inside the cabin and watching his boat moving over the screen. Then we reached Langkawi (Malaysia) and we got from the dockmaster a sketch on how to reach a very nice anchorage. Lat and long data of a waypoint were indicated from which it was just straight south. As usual my friend was sitting inside giving instructions: 1 degree more SB, 1 degree more port, and became more and more excited. I neglected his comments and used common sense, compass and depth sounder in front of me. Till he came out and told me that we would hit that island if I would not change course. The island was just half a mile behind us.....  
Sometimes the underlying charts are not accurate, sometimes the GPS is just a little bit more off than we would like to see it always



snider said:


> Yeah you think LOOKING would be your first instinct, I was in an offshore race a few months ago where we had to pass offshore of a sea buoy, when we thought we should be seeing it of course we got out the binocs and started looking, turns out the coasties had moved the buoy a mile and a half farther out to see than the GPS said. We were just able to point up enough to clear the buoy. Out of the three other boats that were in sight, the next boat back sailed almost directly to were the buoy was supposed to be before realizing the mistake and tacking, and the other two boats admittedly split the difference because they didn't know who was right! By the way it was an exceptionaly clear day. We one the race!


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## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

JagsBch said:


> Like finding your longitude with the noon sighting and North Star,


The noon sight and North Star are only good for latitude not longitude unless you cross either of those sights with another sight of something that has a strong east or west component to the azimuth and you also have the correct CTU.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## JagsBch (Jan 19, 2007)

WOW, I'll have to remember that Robert. BTW what in the hell is CTU? cargo transport unit?


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