# Please recomend a blue water cruiser for around 10K



## Taffy1960 (Jul 18, 2008)

Hi, this is my first post. 
I have enjoyed reading all the comments from more experienced sailors. Dear all, please can you suggest a few boats. I have a dream to sail about half the year. I have been researching for about 4 months for my ideal boat. My plan is to buy a 27-35 footer that I can single hand once I know her. I prefer solid fibreglass (I can do repairs). I like the idea of late 70s early 1980''s (for systems and resale). Budget? Well the sages recommend buying a boat of this age that has already been refitted. Which could take us to 15K – 20K . but the less spent the better (that way if shes holed or stolen then it wont break the bank + she’ll be less of a target for criminals). I will be cruising for 6 months of the year, most of the time on board, but I don’t want luxury. Mainly solo with friends visiting (max 4 berths). I prefer a draft of less than 4 ft. to get into those sheltered interesting places, yet I want her to be capable of an ocean crossing. For this it also seems diesel engine a must. (then I could use biodiesel)

Research has turned up so far Vegas, Tartan 27, 30, (I like the centreboard idea on these boats) contessa 26, sabre 28, and somebody recommended alberg 30ft. 
Speed not a priority, but The seawind 11 32, and westsail 32 might be too much to handle? My experience is beginner/intermediate. 
I plan to buy in florida USA ideally febuary/ march 2009. That way I can easily fly up from Chile, get some experience on her / do any maintenance, and sail the carib for 3 or 4 months

Many thanks for your thoughts. I hope I haven’t fanned any flames ……

Taffy.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Taffy-

There have been about two dozen threads on this same subject in the last two years.

In addition to the boats you've named, I'd also add the Southern Cross series of boats, by CE Ryder in Rhode Island. The major caveat with them is that they had a cored hull-which used AIREX foam as a core material. However, the boats are very robust and seaworthy. Donna Lange recently completed a circumnavigation in her SC 28.

The Pearson Triton, Bristol Channel Cutter, Flicka, Pacific Seacraft Dana 24, and Contessa 26 are also boats that have done similar passages. However, I seriously doubt you'll be able to find any but the Triton in your price range.

Be aware that using biodiesel in a marine engine may not be such a good idea. It has some properties that are going to cause problems for an older boat, which was not designed to use biodiesel specifically. See quoted text below.

I would also highly recommend that you reserve about 15-20% of your purchase budget for refitting, upgrading and repairing any boat you buy. This is especially true of a boat you want to take off-shore for any extended period of time.

Finally, you're not generally going to find a seaworthy boat in your price range that would be liveable for anything but the shortest of time periods with more than two people aboard. Most boats can sail with far more people than can liveaboard them. My friend describes his C&C 38, a much bigger boat than you're looking at or able to afford, as "Sails 6, Feeds 4, Sleeps 2".

I'd recommend you look at John Vigor's book, 20 Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere. Some of the boats in that book are inherently more seaworthy than others...and some I would hesitate to recommend for making a bluewater passage without serious modifications.



> Pure biodiesel (B100) has a solvent effect, which may well release deposits accumulated on tank walls and in pipes from operation. It will also attack paint and similar surfaces, given the chance. Using high blends of biodiesel, the release of deposits may clog filters initially and care should be taken to replace fuel filters until the build-up of deposits is eliminated. This issue is less of a problem with B20 blends, and there is no evidence that lower-blend levels such as B2 have caused filters to become blocked.
> 
> B20 and B2 refer to the American system of designating the percentage of biodiesel in a blend. B20 contains 20 % biodiesel and B2 contains 2 % biodiesel by volume. The rest will consist of standard fossil diesel fuel.
> 
> ...


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## Taffy1960 (Jul 18, 2008)

*Thanks*

Sailingdog,

Thanks for the useful info. I'll check out the boats you mentioned and search for the threads.

Your right about the biodiesel. I understand its better to use blands / mixes with mineral diesel particulary at first. and replace rubber with synthetic hoses, seals, etc-

I think the effort will be worth it. There's nothing worse than seeing fuel stains in the water.

Taffy.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Please recomend a blue water cruiser for around 10K 

Passage on the Queen Mary 2?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

be nice sway...


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

sailaway21 said:


> Please recomend a blue water cruiser for around 10K
> 
> Passage on the Queen Mary 2?


I was going to be clever/cheeky like that but just couldn't do it..

Welcome anyway Taffy


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Not a hijack, but I have a friend here in NJ, who uses biodiesel in his yanmar engine on his sailboat. Yanmar even services his engine. Trouble with sailing with him, is your dying for french fries within 10 minutes of being on his boat.


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## LittleWingCA (Jul 17, 2008)

You might want to look for a Pacific Seacraft Orion 27 or Flicka also. You can find a few available on various yacht listing sites, in the age range you are looking for, but slightly higher than your current budget asperations. They are built for open ocean, and are in the size range, and draft range you are looking for. If you are seriously looking for something for 6 months of cruising in the open ocean, you might want to look higher than $10k.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

While both the Orion and Flicka are excellent little bluewater boats... they're very unlikely to be in the OP's price range.


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## Taffy1960 (Jul 18, 2008)

Guys n' gals,

I like the look at the southern cross 9m. My budget could stretch to 15- maybe 20K if there was something irresistible + practically ready to go. 
Taffy.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I doubt you can get a SC31 for under $20k.


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## gonesailin40 (Sep 6, 2007)

If your kids are grown and all your affairs are in order, there are plenty of sub-10k boats for you!


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## LittleWingCA (Jul 17, 2008)

*Flickas available in your price range*

Taffy:

Believe it or not, as of 7/18/08 at 7:35pm PST, Yachtworld.com has a listing of 5 different Flickas under $25K. Do a search on Pacific Seacraft boats in the 15 to 25 foot range and they should all pop up. There are others but they are beyond what you want to spend. Can't speak to their readiness to go, but they are bluewater capable, meet the specs you have outlined above, and are within your stretch price range. Have a look see and maybe you will find what you are looking for. Good luck. Don't forget, that these are prices before negotiation starts.

1980: $19K
1978: $19.9K
1981: $25K
1978: $19.95K
1979: $18.9K


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

Go to Havana. Lots of expertise there. under 10 grand most the boats there do a passage of 90 miles. I don't think you can do it for 10 grand and be safe!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Whatever boat you do decide to make an offer on, make sure you get a survey.


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## kai34 (Jul 16, 2008)

it has been mentioned to me that sometimes you can find boats at marinas in their impound docks. also try craigslist, a month or so ago there was a 40' morgan was for sale in mexico for 10 grand by a guy that ran out of money and found a job he couldnt turn down. the boat was in great shape, set up for offshore cruising, except with minimal problems with the engine that was fixed cheap. so the moral of the story is that you can find a good deal on a solid boat, you just have to be lucky. good luck.
-kai


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

kai,
So the guy sold a $50-100,000 boat for $10K just so he didn't have to spend $5K to get it back to somewhere where he could make 10 times that much? I'm sceptical.

To the OP, get the stateroom on the QM2 with a view. Your price range is going to get you killed. You could buy a boat that had just circumnavogated the globe and you'd still find $5K worth of things to fix on her. Your budget is too low for what you desire. And I mean your final budget; the one you'll be at after purchase and refitments. You can get a very nice boat for $10K, just not one your Mom is going to want you in offshore. (g)


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## RhodesSwiftsure (Aug 5, 2007)

*Almost anything which is not currently sinking will work*

Believe it or not, how a boat makes it's way around the world depends on it's skipper and/or it's crew. The boat virtually always manages to stay afloat.

Apart from plunging into the southern ocean, almost any vessel currently afloat will get you from one port to the next with reasonable planning. For goodness sakes, people have done both the Atlantic and the Pacific in 6 foot boats (and many of those passages have been done with no supplies).

If you want to try and go against prevailing winds for some kind of crazy record, good luck.

Otherwise, learn how your boat works, provision well, and sail sensibly. In principle, you can go anywhere in a dinghy, and anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to sell you something or is trying to justify a recent purchase.


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## Taffy1960 (Jul 18, 2008)

bubb2

Havana ? whats the deal there ? 

SC boats: are they value for money? they're more expensive than say a tartan 30.
A flicka looks too small to have friends along. 

taffy


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailingdog said:


> I would also highly recommend that you reserve about 15-20% of your purchase budget for refitting, upgrading and repairing any boat you buy. This is especially true of a boat you want to take off-shore for any extended period of time.


I sail a little boat that is nto for blue water, so a lot this is arm chair thinking (but I do research this a lot)...

I would push those percentages even higher if you are going to spend less. Taking the $10K figure for example, I think you could likely end up with a better boat for $5K that need $5K put into it. the extreme example is a haul way that needs your whole fund used on rehab. But, you would need to be able to spot the diamond in the rough and do a lot of the work yourself.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

RhodesSwiftsure said:


> Believe it or not, how a boat makes it's way around the world depends on it's skipper and/or it's crew. The boat virtually always manages to stay afloat.
> 
> Apart from plunging into the southern ocean, almost any vessel currently afloat will get you from one port to the next with reasonable planning. For goodness sakes, people have done both the Atlantic and the Pacific in 6 foot boats (and many of those passages have been done with no supplies).
> 
> ...


Thanks RS...IM vindicated...Always knew my Irwin was a solid offshore world cruiser..now just need one bit of info from you...where can I always sail on a beam reach and avoid any nasty head winds to make sure she dosent bust apart..


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## dell30rb (Jul 16, 2008)

i'm in a similar situation


I'm planning on buying a boat with a friend who I've sailed with for a couple years. We both had sailing dinghies growing up but have sold them and are looking for something we can do some serious cruising on. Between the two of us we have plenty of "sweat equity" and know-how (my friend works for pacific seacraft, and we have a mutual friend whose family owns a canvas shop). We're both college students now and broke, and we've determined that the best way for us to get a good boat on a budget is to buy one that needs work. These are usually better deals because the owner probably quit sailing, or bought a new boat and just dosen't want to deal with it, so they're willing to sell cheap. 

Anyway one peice of advice, probably the best way to get a good boat on a tight budget (obviously this is not possible for everyone) is to move to a sailing town and get a job at a local marina, or boat yard. You'll meet alot of people who you might find are surprisingly willing to help you find, or work on a boat. And you just might find that $1000 "just get it off my property" gem of a bluewater cruiser.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

You gotta love youthful exuberance!
I own a Tartan 27' that we got for $4K from an owner desperate to get rid of his second and older boat. While it is considered a coastal cruiser it is a well made boat but being older it requires more care and maintenance. I know of one T27 owner who sailed his boat from Europe to the South Pacific, IIRC.
It is not my idea of an ocean voyager but it is a good solid boat as are Pacific Seacraft and CS models which will be more expensive. 
There are a lot of maintenance issues that come up with older boats such as engine health, chain plate and rigging integrity and thru hulls that you do not want to find out about when you are 100+ miles off any coast in any kind of rough sea. 
The guy who took his T27 to the South Pacific modified it for ocean cruising and added a lot of electronics etc. to the boat.
Nice dream and I hope you find the boat that was looking for you.


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## RhodesSwiftsure (Aug 5, 2007)

Stillraining said:


> Thanks RS...IM vindicated...Always knew my Irwin was a solid offshore world cruiser..now just need one bit of info from you...where can I always sail on a beam reach and avoid any nasty head winds to make sure she dosent bust apart..


Check the weather forecast and be prudent?

You do not have to be Larry Pardey to realize that a boat will do just fine in any ocean on the planet provided you don't jump into something beyond the pale.

There are, of course, differences between boats. But it's people and dispositions that make the difference when the going gets tough, not displacement ratios and the precise chemical formula of the resin under your feet.


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

I don't know about the attitude that any boat will work. Sounds like someone who has never been out at sea!!!!! Even on a lake there are remarkable differences in boats. I have watched the Catalina 22s getting beat upwhile my Pearson is just beginning to get lively. Even if a light boat doesn't fall aprt it will beat up it's occupants more than a heavy boat. Many ideals just don't hold up when you do a reality check. A few hundred miles off shore is a bad place to findout that your boat does poorly in big waves and high winds!!!!!


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

RhodesSwiftsure said:


> Check the weather forecast and be prudent?
> 
> You do not have to be Larry Pardey to realize that a boat will do just fine in any ocean on the planet provided you don't jump into something beyond the pale.
> 
> There are, of course, differences between boats. But it's people and dispositions that make the difference when the going gets tough, not displacement ratios and the precise chemical formula of the resin under your feet.


RS...These are eloquent words to be sure...but mans best attempts at avoiding Gods creation ( I hate mother nature ) head on at times is delusional at best..I concede that there is an element of man that is content with all risks..however on this forum we strive to offer sound advice that puts the element of success in the favor of thoes getting the advice..To say my Irwin is a blue water capable boat is just ignoring the facts otherwise..Ted Irwin if alive today would tell you so...Have they made passages? yes for sure they have but thats not what they were built structurally for..

I once put two bullets from a 270 Winchester into first the shoulder of a 10'3" brown Bear at 40 feet the second shot was in his ear at 6'... yes six feet...there would not have been a 3rd shot!...a 270 is not the encouraged weapon of choice to go hunting Brown bear on Kodiak Island Alaska ( We were deer Hunting ) will it work yes...was it a close call...TOO CLOSE.

Buy/Recomend the right tool for the job.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

*Umm, MacGregor 26'*

The minute I stepped aboard a MacG 26 S I decided it was lightweight for the job of heavy seas. My friend and I took one on the ocean for 50 miles from Fire Island Inlet to NYC nonetheless (some 50 nm along the Atlantic coast). I have seen people recommend this type of boat for cruising the Bahamas which is 'outside' and blue water on various forums. It can be done but is it safe or well advised?
Then there is this young Hungarian guy who has sailed his 22' boat out of the Med to the South Pacific. Sailing Alone Around the World with Carina (19 ft boat)
I ask you whether you are up to the task on a limited boat?
You could try it on a Sunfish and likely not make it but the QM III as Sway suggested would most likely get you there without half of the headaches.
Otherwise we take my Tartan 27'.
Good luck.


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## Iflyka200s (Oct 3, 2007)

So my $800 Catalina 22 will make it from Miami to Fiji!

*COOL... *I'm on my way! (actually I'm waiting for still raining to tell me his boss needs a pilot and I'll sail her to the PNW! (The long way around!)

Ok, I'm kidding, my C-22 will never see the outside of Biscayne Bay unless its a REALLY nice day! She's a bay boat..

Buy enough boat for the job!

(of course I am joking above!)


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## RhodesSwiftsure (Aug 5, 2007)

Stillraining said:


> ..To say my Irwin is a blue water capable boat is just ignoring the facts otherwise..Ted Irwin if alive today would tell you so...Have they made passages? yes for sure they have but thats not what they were built structurally for..


I'm not suggesting that the boat makes no difference ("there are differences between boats"). What I am trying (apparently quite badly) to point out is that people have made huge crossings in tiny little things and lived to tell the tale. If you stack bad weather and poor seamanship on top of a crappy craft, well, best of luck. But good sailing and being patient with the weather are just as crucial (if not more) than the vessel. There is no "perfect" blue water craft formula; there are trade offs.

Also, good job on that second shot


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Webb Chiles made it 7/8's of the way around the world or so in a Drascombe Lugger, which is an 18' open boat—no cabin, no motor. I don't think it was what I'd call fun or relaxing...but he's a good enough sailor to pull it off. I don't think I'd even try.  That doesn't make the Drascombe Lugger a bluewater boat in any way or form—although Webb did accomplish some major bluewater passages in one. 

There are many small sailboats that with some modification would be somewhat suitable for a bluewater passage. No boat is going to be perfect for a bluewater passage, especially if your budget is only $10,000.  The smaller the boat, the more prudent it is to wait for a decent weather, and to account for what historically happens during a given time of year. 

The Cape Dory 36 is probably one of the better bluewater capable boats below 40', but one from my homeport just got its butt kicked tangling with a named storm. The captain had to be rescued by the Canadian Coast Guard during a West-to-East trans-Atlantic attempt. Does this mean a Cape Dory isn't suitable... NO... Does it mean that trying to outrun a named storm in a Cape Dory 36 is stupid... probably.


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## sgkuhner (May 5, 2002)

Don't rule out the Seawind 30. It is a fabulous ocean going boat and she only draws 4'3". Here is a website that tells you how, "She'll Cross an Ocean if You Want To" It is an excellent article about our circumnavigation in a Seawind 30 back in the early 70s. I believe that you can pick them up for about your price range.
http://www.boats.com/news-reviews/articledetail.html?lid=1035


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## eMKay (Aug 18, 2007)

There was a sound Contessa 26 for sale here for $3900, I looked at the boat and it's beautiful. You then have $6000 to outfit it for offshore sailing. The boat sold quickly but is still sitting where it was...I'm waiting for it to be for sale again


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Here is a $4000 31' boat ready to sail:

Golden Hind 31 Foresale

Says it just needs cosmetic things done and has crossed the Atlantic 4 times.
NFI, just saw it browsing.
That ad will likely go away soon, so here is the text:

Golden Hind 31 Foresale - $4000 (Wilmington)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 2008-07-29, 10:05PM EDT

This is a true bluewater boat. Golden Hinds once held the record for the most ocean crossings of a single type. This boat has made three Atlantic crossings itself. Built in Portsmouth England by Terry Erskine Yachts in 1969. The hull is made of mahogany and plywood and then glassed. She is the best sailing boat I have ever sailed a real pleasure. They say she sleeps 5 that would be very cosy but could be done. I would say its more like 4.

SAILS

1 MAIN NEW 2004

MAIN SAIL COVER NEW 2004

1 GENOA NEW 2004

1 JIB GOOD CONDITION

1 STORM JIB GOOD CONDITION

ENGINE

LISTER DIESEL REBUILT 2000

EQUIPMENT

LIFE VESTS, REVERSE PLOW ANCHOR, SEA ANCHOR, BIMINI TOP, POT-A-POTTIE, DEPT FINDER, COMPASS, GAS GRILL, BILGE PUMP, SHORE POWER CORD AND THREE BATTERIES

This boat is in good mechanical condition ready to sail but she needs a lot of TLC. There are some minor soft spots on the deck under the life lines these need to be removed and fixed. The boat needs to be repainted. Bottom paint was done in 2006. Cabin needs paint and cushions It has all the old cushions and they are still useable but are dated. Excelent restoration project for someone who wants something they can sail and restore at the same time. Don't miss your chance to own a piece of history. The TLC this boat needs is cosmetic not structural. You can take this boat sailing right now no work required. Sail her this summer and restore her this fall.


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## AntonR (Jul 19, 2007)

West Wight Potter 19, San Francisco to Hawaii

Singlehanded Sailing on a West Wight Potter 19 - San Francisco to Hawaii, Seattle to Alaska


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Taffy1960 said:


> My budget could stretch to ...


Famous last words.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

AntonR said:


> West Wight Potter 19, San Francisco to Hawaii
> 
> Singlehanded Sailing on a West Wight Potter 19 - San Francisco to Hawaii, Seattle to Alaska


I like Potters a lot. If I get a bigger vehicle and budget, a Potter 19 is on the list of boats I would consider if I decided to upgrade but still stay relatively small. But it's a stretch to call it a blue water boat IMO. That guy prepped the boat well and he is a good sailor, but that was still a pretty aggressive thing to do in that boat. I have exchanged emails with a guy who took one like mine to the Bahamas. Does that make it a blue water boat?


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

The Hungarian Guy...Hey hes out there what can I say..


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Stillraining said:


> The Hungarian Guy...Hey hes out there what can I say..


What the hell is that thing. ???


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Is that the Montauk Monster?


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