# Looking at a Alberg 35



## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

I'm looking at a 1965 Alberg 35 Yawl with a tiller. The boat seems sound, though it does have some deck rot/delamination (of course!). The guy owned it for over a decade, and has done almost nothing to it. All cushions need replacement as do the toe rails (some major cracks), and interior wood needs refinishing. I think I would paint the Formica wood grain on the bulkheads white. Besides the new tachometer, the only working instrument is the depth sounder, which he claims works, though, the "graph feature" no longer functions. Looks like this thing should be in the Smithsonian! (picture attached). 
On the positive side, the sails and rigging are good and he replaced the A4 with a Beta Marine 20 HP Diesel which has about 25 hours on it. I assume the hull is almost bullet proof. 
So, it seems that right now, this boat is a flotation device for a nice engine! Though, it could be more with a fair amount of cosmetic work and some deck work.
Questions:
At 6 Tons I guess 20 HP is enough, using the 3hp per Ton rule. Though, the boat has a full keel and the original A4 touts 27hp. As I recall Diesel HP isn't the same as gas HP. Is that true? If so, why?

The mast step compression beam that runs under the cabin top and supports seem sound, but show water stains. (Pictures attached). The cabin top doesn't sag under the mast, but the bulkhead door seems warped (closes, but doesn't latch, may just be the door). Is anyone aware of issues with this system on these boats? 

Hard to tell what lurks on a 45 year old boat with a glass coach top liner! On the other hand, it's nice liner and I wouldn't want to remove it for no reason. Seems I would have to in order to replace the toe rail. 

Any input is welcome, especially from members who have these boats. I know there are a couple. I posted this in the Alberg section on a old thread but didn't get results. Thought it might do better here.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

L124C said:


> As I recall Diesel HP isn't the same as gas HP. Is that true? If so, why?


Horses are horses. Horsepower is a calculated number, not a measured number - Torque X RPM divided by 5250 = Horsepower (which is the reason ALL engines torque and horsepower numbers match at 5250 RPM)

Diesel engines have flatter torque curves than gas and they produce their torque at lower RPM for the most part. That's why they feel like they have more "grunt".

Torque is a far more useful number than horsepower.

As a side note, if you can find out the RPM where your engine produces maximum torque, that is also the RPM where you will get the best fuel economy under load - ideally your prop should be pitched to run at that RPM at hull speed.


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## jcboyce (Dec 7, 2011)

I believe there is a 37 or 35 in MDR, Broker has it.

1) assuming is for fools.
2)Inspect it from Stem to stern, looking for cracked glass joints at, tanks, bulkheads, keel bolts, hull deck joints, Or anything you can't explain.
3)look for water trails, odd wear marks.
4)Most rudders are shaft / bar construction, and seamed around the edges, look for cracks.
5) the Betta I remember from china sounded like it had a cracked tuning fork in it, But, It's there. It's been years but I think some of the Albergs had an Atomic 4 23 hp. that displacement hull will flow your wetted surfaces well limiting drag. though I don't think I've been on an Alberg in 33 to 35 years, stuffing box hose was lose.
As for the paper graph, the paper was $8 a roll in the 80 I think it was. Are you planning to do salvage diving and need a record of what you went over?
The interior looks to be solid teak frames with Formica(Trade name). You can paint it. or you could Assuming It is what I think, remove the Formica, and replace it with a teak veneer, Sand and Varnish or Teak oil all of the above. If you don't know how seal the teak and paint, unless you use epoxy paint it will probably fall off anyway, but you will have time to gather the skills you need to move forward.

Sounds easy. I bought my current prize while she was sunk. So your way ahead.
JCBoyce


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

jcboyce said:


> .
> 
> 1) assuming is for fools.
> Easy there JC! I said I "assume" the hull is bulletproof because in 1965 they didn't know how strong fiberglass was and over compensated. it's reported to be an inch thick in spots. Does this OP look like it was composed by a "fool"?
> ...


Must have been tough to spot "water trails". On the other hand, you didn't have to put her on the hard to inspect the rudder, she was already there. It was you who was afloat! Unless you bought her sunk unseen...but only a fool would do that!


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Thoughts?

It is a classic boat, well designed and generally well built for its era. Carl Alberg was a genius and Pearson was a great builder. Mahina Expeditions lists it as a boat to consider for a bluewater cruiser: Mahina Expedition - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising

It would be an excellent boat for a project/restoration low-initial-cost, go-anywhere, sailing vessel, provided you are willing to put in the sweat equity to bring it back to its full glory. Study Don Casey's "This Old Boat" to fully understand the work you will have to undertake.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

If I am not mistaken SN member smurphny also has an Alberg 35'.

I am also a fan of good old plastic classics like the A 35'. My Tartan 27' is from 1967.

Good news is the newer Beta 20 HP engine. For the A35 I would have considered a Beta 28 but 20 hp should be fine - especially with a 3 blade prop on it. It is also a good thing that the boat does not come with a lot of electronics and such as they become obsolete quite quickly.


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## rhr1956 (Dec 18, 2010)

I saw the boat on yachtworld. Lots of pictures of it (including the antique graph) and overall it looks like a pretty good size project. I'm guessing you'll have plenty have plenty of man-hours invested by the time you get it shining.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

CalebD said:


> If I am not mistaken SN member smurphny also has an Alberg 35'.
> I am also a fan of good old plastic classics like the A 35'. My Tartan 27' is from 1967.
> Good news is the newer Beta 20 HP engine. For the A35 I would have considered a Beta 28 but 20 hp should be fine - especially with a 3 blade prop on it. It is also a good thing that the boat does not come with a lot of electronics and such as they become obsolete quite quickly.


I have a 1970 Yankee 30 and would never get rid of her is she was 5 feet longer and had a inch more head room! I never thought I would be moving to an older boat (certainly nothing without ST winches!), but a Alberg/Ericson 35 caught my eye in the marina.
Just got a copy of a survey that was done on the Alberg in 1999. She had a 30hp A4 which was not working at the time. Interestingly, the owner was apparently sailing her as a Sloop and had the Mizzen in his Garage. The current owner says in strong winds (SF Bay most Summer afternoons!), he likes to use the Head sail and Mizzen without a Main. From what I've read, the boat is initially tender, and has a fair amount of Weather Helm in strong winds, so the second approach probably makes sense.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I looked at a Pearson Alberg 35 about a year ago. Prior to that I loved them 35 on paper! Then when I finally got to go aboard and see one.. I was kind of shocked by the "smallness" of them given the fact they are 35ft boat. They are very well laid out however.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

deniseO30 said:


> I looked at a Pearson Alberg 35 about a year ago. Prior to that I loved them 35 on paper! Then when I finally got to go aboard and see one.. I was kind of shocked by the "smallness" of them given the fact they are 35ft boat. They are very well laid out however.


That's because they are really a 24' boat - on the waterline. 1.5 feet less W/L and a foot less beam than your O'Day 30.

Looking at boats from an LOA view is, or can be very misleading - W/L and Disp. are a much more valid basis for comparison of "size".

Those beautiful overhangs cost a lot in dockage.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

rhr1956 said:


> I saw the boat on yachtworld. Lots of pictures of it (including the antique graph) and overall it looks like a pretty good size project. I'm guessing you'll have plenty have plenty of man-hours invested by the time you get it shining.


No doubt, but I'm not afraid of boat work if it brings her back to life and it makes sense financially (in boat terms!:laugher). If the deck isn't too bad it looks like some paint, varnish, instruments and upholstery will go a long way. Looked at a Ericson 38 years ago with a new Yanmar. Asking price was 15K (the motor was worth 15K). The owner had started several hair brained projects and not finished most of them. I would have needed to gut the boat and start over. I easily could have put 30K into the boat (plus the 15K) and a LOT of time, and would have had a boat that I could have bought for 30K Elsewhere (with a older, serviceable motor). Didn't make sense. 
This boat appears to be just the opposite. The owner simply didn't do anything, including maintenance. At least he didn't screw everything up!


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Have been restoring mine for a few years now. I can give you specific feedback on almost anything regarding the fix-up. The 20 hp is a bit light. I have a 3GM30 and it is just about right as far as amount of HP. I believe the original Atomics were also around 30 Hp. With a boat as old as these are, be prepared to replace lots of stuff.

The mast steps typically leak down into the balsa core and cause the glass around the step to deflect as the balsa crushes. Fixing this is a given with these. The more serious problem is whether the header which is wrapped with teak, is rotten. The bulkheads that support the header also rot (ask me how I know Replacing the header and bulkheads is a major job and probably a reason to walk away if you cannot do it yourself. Taking on the restoration of one of these can be prohibitively expensive if you can't do the work yourself.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

SloopJonB said:


> That's because they are really a 24' boat - on the waterline. 1.5 feet less W/L and a foot less beam than your O'Day 30.
> 
> Looking at boats from an LOA view is, or can be very misleading - W/L and Disp. are a much more valid basis for comparison of "size".
> 
> Those beautiful overhangs cost a lot in dockage.


24' under sail at 0 knots only


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Turbo! LOL 20 hp for a 24ft boat there you go!

owners group http://alberg35.dlinkddns.com/Alberg35/index.php


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

SloopJonB said:


> That's because they are really a 24' boat - on the waterline. 1.5 feet less W/L and a foot less beam than your O'Day 30.
> 
> Looking at boats from an LOA view is, or can be very misleading - W/L and Disp. are a much more valid basis for comparison of "size".
> 
> Those beautiful overhangs cost a lot in dockage.


It's my understanding that the "beautiful overhangs" combined with a narrow beam also improve sea kindliness (read a review by an owner who says sometimes he goes into a wave and and is convinced they will get hammered, and the A35 simply floats over it, though, "hobby horsing" can be an issue), and light air performance (LWL is short until she heels and it extends). However, this requires that she be rather tender, and sacrifices living space, both not popular by modern standards.


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## cupper3 (Jun 30, 2010)

SloopJonB said:


> ..........
> 
> As a side note, if you can find out the RPM where your engine produces maximum torque, that is also the RPM where you will get the best fuel economy under load - ideally your prop should be pitched to run at that RPM at hull speed.


Can you expand on that? Maximum torque and hull speed doesn't intuitively make sense.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

L124C said:


> It's my understanding that the "beautiful overhangs" combined with a narrow beam also improve sea kindliness (read a review by an owner who says sometimes he goes into a wave and and is convinced they will get hammered, and the A35 simply floats over the it, though, "hobby horsing" can be an issue), and light air performance (LOA is short until she heels and it extends). However, this requires that she be rather tender, and sacrifices living space, both not popular by modern standards.


I haven't sailed much or recently on an Alberg 35, but I do recall that the boat behaved in a similar manner to other Alberg designs I am more familiar with: the boat was tender. In any kind of real breeze she would heel 15 degrees or so. This is of course necessary to take advantage of those beautiful overhangs and lengthen the LWL, increasing the hull speed significantly. Its hard to remember now, but the original purpose of those overhangs was to "beat" a racing rule (the CCA rule) that assigned a handicap based partially on waterline length. With a very short measured waterline, boats with overhangs actually beat the rule by having their practical waterlines (the boat length once heeled over) outperfom their predicted rule-bestowed handicap. The A35 wasn't designed as a racing boat, but the CCA rule influenced just about every sailboat built back then.

Once over on her ear, the A35 would stiffen up nicely and go no further, but it was easy to put her in that state in the first place. And she would track like she was on rails. And that weather helm! Holy mother of god that boat would pull to weather something fierce. It took some fancy sail adjustments to make it so the wheel was comfortable to handle. Not a particularly weatherly boat either, and whoever said they don't perform well in light air also hit the nail on the head. I don't mean to say the boat sails like a dog; she doesn't. The A35 was an able performer for her day, and can still give you great pleasure. I just don't think its a good choice for someone who sails regularly in light airs, or who wants to race. Its a fairly wet boat that requires some physical stamina to sail (you try heeling at 20 degrees for several hours at a time in a boat with strong weather helm). That's perfect for some people and not so much for others.

And do not try to back that thing up under power for the first time in a crowded marina. My friend with the A35 said it required a great deal of practice before he could control the boat in reverse well enough to feel semi-comfortable backing out of his slip.

That all being said, the A35 is just a gorgeous boat. A well-maintained Alberg boat is going to draw looks of admiration and envy wherever you go.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

smurphny said:


> The mast steps typically leak down into the balsa core and cause the glass around the step to deflect as the balsa crushes. Fixing this is a given with these. The more serious problem is whether the header which is wrapped with teak, is rotten. The bulkheads that support the header also rot (ask me how I know Replacing the header and bulkheads is a major job and probably a reason to walk away if you cannot do it yourself. Taking on the restoration of one of these can be prohibitively expensive if you can't do the work yourself.


Thats why the water marks on the header trim and the warped door concerned me. In my brief inspection, it appeared to me that the the header is supported by framing members and that the bulkhead was more of partition. Is this true? 
This issue is one of the reasons I wish Alberg had gone with a Keel stepped mast. Without getting into the keel vs. deck step issue, given the age of the design and the style of the boat, that puzzles me.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

mstern said:


> Once over on her ear, the A35 would stiffen up nicely and go no further, but it was easy to put her in that state in the first place. And she would track like she was on rails. And that weather helm! Holy mother of god that boat would pull to weather something fierce. It took some fancy sail adjustments to make it so the wheel was comfortable to handle. Not a particularly weatherly boat either, and whoever said they don't perform well in light air also hit the nail on the head. I don't mean to say the boat sails like a dog; she doesn't. The A35 was an able performer for her day, and can still give you great pleasure. I just don't think its a good choice for someone who sails regularly in light airs, or who wants to race. Its a fairly wet boat that requires some physical stamina to sail (you try heeling at 20 degrees for several hours at a time in a boat with strong weather helm). That's perfect for some people and not so much for others.


How does a boat track well and have excessive weather helm at the same time? Seems like a contradiction in terms. Don't mind heeling, but if I couldn't tune out the weather helm with sail trim or reducing sail (nothing "fancy"), that would be a problem. Heading up occasionally in a gust is fine, but you shouldn't have to fight weather helm for hours. Surely Alberg knew that!


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

L124C said:


> Thats why the water marks on the header trim and the warped door concerned me. In my brief inspection, it appeared to me that the the header is supported by framing members and that the bulkhead was more of partition. Is this true?
> This issue is one of the reasons I wish Alberg had gone with a Keel stepped mast. Without getting into the keel vs. deck step issue, given the age of the design and the style of the boat, that puzzles me.


That's why I mentioned it. Those water stains may indicate that water has penetrated through. Once water gets into the bulkheads, it has no way out and saturates the plywood, eventually rotting it out. There is a large laminated header over the door. It is wrapped with 1/2" teak. Its strength comes from the two posts which form the door jamb and the bulkhead structure. The clear span is actually quite short. The mast wires are also BURIED in there and virtually impossible to access. When I re-glassed solid under the step, I removed that asinine, inaccessible in-mast plug set-up and ran all my mast wires over the deck, into the port dorade box. Now I can access all the wiring which runs right into a new terminal block in the head. A keel stepped mast would be right in the middle of the v-berth door.

Weather helm IS an issue with these. I have a Norvane steerer and have to be very particular as to the amount of sail and trim of sails. The halyard must be good and tight, with no stretch and the belly of the sail has to be moved forward. I have a Cunningham which makes a big difference in moving the c/e forward. She will balance out but you have to reef early, at about 10 knots to avoid excessive rounding up on puffs. A lot of these boats, like mine, have huge mainsail with a big roach and, of course the 160 genny. They were designed for club racing in light winds and are not too useful for cruising in any kind of wind. I just sewed up and beefed up a much smaller main (by about 40 sq'), dumping the hump and shortening the foot. Some day I may actually shorten the boom as some people have done on the A35.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

L124C said:


> How does a boat track well and have excessive weather helm at the same time? Seems like a contradiction in terms. Don't mind heeling, but if I couldn't tune out the weather helm with sail trim or reducing sail (nothing "fancy"), that would be a problem. Heading up occasionally in a gust is fine, but you shouldn't have to fight weather helm for hours. Surely Alberg knew that!


You're right. I should have qualified that the weather helm became uncomfortable when the winds picked up. I don't remember the exact conditions, but I think the winds were about 15 knots + that day. And the "fancy" sail adjustments that brought the situation under control were dropping the traveller, then reefing the main. When we didn't have to fight the weather helm, the boat did track straight and true.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

cupper3 said:


> Can you expand on that? Maximum torque and hull speed doesn't intuitively make sense.


No? I think it does - torque is the "grunt" that actually pushes your boat - horsepower is only torque delivered over time. When you step on the gas at a light, it's torque that pushes you back in your seat (and please don't say it's inertia, I know that subtlety )

The peak torque RPM is where a diesel is most fuel efficient so having it placed to coincide with a boats hull speed is going to give you the best "gas mileage".

Stationary engines chug along around their torque peak - they are sized to do that - it's more efficient than running a larger engine slower or a smaller engine faster.

This is the basic concept behind varying or modifying a props pitch - it moves the engines RPM into a more efficient range.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

If you are going to live with a Yanmar, I highly recommend spending the bucks to get the service manual. It has more info, than you'll ever need and EVERYTHING that you will someday be looking for. All the torque curves are in there and good instructions on how to fix everything. I have found it essential on many occasions. The 3GM reaches peak torque between 2200 to 2800 rpm at 13-17 hp. The 2gm reaches peak at 2800 as well at 11 hp. The trick is to size the wheel so that when you are at hull speed, the engine is at the low end of that rpm spec. Fuel consumption for the 2GM looks like it's most efficient at 2800, which is also the peak torque. The 3GM is the same. The only issue is whether the 2GM can get the boat to hull speed at an efficient rpm. I doubt it. You would need to spin the 2GM at 3300 to get to only 13 hp. The 3GM on my boat does get the boat to hull speed at 16-18 hp/27-2800 rpm. They run very comfortably at this rpm. Hope this helps with your comparison.


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## brob76 (Aug 6, 2009)

Looks like a nice boat but the asking price is exceptionally high. Sounds like the owner is trying to recoup the costs of the re-power. I bought my A35 three years ago (1962 Hull# 54 - Auriga) and paid $7500. They were originally asking $19000. It was in about the same shape as the boat you're looking at. It had been well cared for but as in your case, nothing had been upgraded (except the engine) for many many years. It had a relatively new Universal M25XPB which is the exact same engine as the Beta 28. Both are marinized versions of the Kubota D1005. Strangely enough, Beta rates the output at 28hp while Universal/Westerbeke rates it at 26hp and Kubota rates it at 23.5hp. Not sure how each came up with different ratings but I'll trust Kubota. This M25XPB is just about right for this boat. I've had to fight some fairly strong and its close to being a bit short on power. I think an A35 will be a bit underpowered with a Beta 20 but maybe they worked some magic with prop sizing.

Deck delamination repair is a big project. Don't let anyone trivialize the efforts involved. My deck was about 90% saturated and it took me about two months full time to complete the re-core. It's a very weather dependent project. This would probably be the biggest project you would have to undertake. My build sounds slightly different than smurphny's. On #54, there is solid laminate under the mast step (no core) running the full width of the cabin-house and the mast wiring runs through a fitting on the deck on the stbd side of the mast. The supporting structure below is 12 teak stanchions. 6 on each side of the bulkhead that support a pretty massive white oak beam. So, I guess the main bulkhead could be considered semi-structural. The beam was in good shape as were the bulkheads. I had a very small amount of perimeter rot where one of the chainplates had leaked a bit but it was easily repairable.

The formica bulkheads are a great surface for painting. I sanded mine with 220 and painted them with with 1-part polyurethane. I also re-varnished all the interior mahogany. Looks great and was a relatively quick and easy project. I took inspiration from smurphny's composting head build and built one myself. That was one of the best upgrades I've done to the boat. No more stinky hoses and holding tanks.

As far as sailing is concerned, weather helm was terrible with the original sails. They were a bit blown out. I bought a new main with three reef points and a 135% rf genny. The difference was like night and day. I also installed a new Garhauer traveler which gives a lot more control over the main sail than the old system. Weather helm with the new sails is quite manageable. In under 10 knots, I fly the full main and genny. Above 10 knots, weather helm kicks up pretty steadily. I usually tie in one reef between 10-18 knots and leave up the full genny. It handles quite well with this combination.

If your rigging is original as mine was, that's one of the first things you'll need to look at. All of my swages had cracks. It was and issue of when, not if, one was going to fail. My chainplates were also pretty corroded at the deck penetration so they were replaced. This is a pretty expensive project. Cost me about ~$2000 to replace all the rigging and chainplates including adding an inner forestay for hank-on foresails. Add to that the $5000 for the new sails and I had about $7000 in rig and sails.

I think the A35 is one of the most solid cruising boats you can buy. They don't have the cabin volume of some of the more modern cruisers but I find it more than adequate. I'm 6'4" and can stand in most parts of the cabin. I think the boat you're looking at would make a fine project, but it looks worth more in the 10K-12K rather than 18K considering the lack of systems. Like I said, the PO wanted $19000 for mine and I paid $7500. I documented some of my projects on the Plastic Classic Forum here: Plastic Classic Forum • View topic - Alberg 35 Refit. I've done a number of projects since then that I'll update soon. Let me know if you have any questions.


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## brob76 (Aug 6, 2009)

Forgot to mention....make sure to look at the rudder. If it's the original mahogany rudder, there is a good chance it will need attention or replacement. Mine was so punky and rotten, I could pull 6 inch chunks of wood out of it by hand.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

brob76 said:


> Looks like a nice boat but the asking price is exceptionally high. Sounds like the owner is trying to recoup the costs of the re-power. I bought my A35 three years ago (1962 Hull# 54 - Auriga) and paid $7500. They were originally asking $19000. It was in about the same shape as the boat you're looking at. It had been well cared for but as in your case, nothing had been upgraded (except the engine) for many many years. It had a relatively new Universal M25XPB which is the exact same engine as the Beta 28. Both are marinized versions of the Kubota D1005. Strangely enough, Beta rates the output at 28hp while Universal/Westerbeke rates it at 26hp and Kubota rates it at 23.5hp. Not sure how each came up with different ratings but I'll trust Kubota. This M25XPB is just about right for this boat. I've had to fight some fairly strong and its close to being a bit short on power. I think an A35 will be a bit underpowered with a Beta 20 but maybe they worked some magic with prop sizing.
> 
> Deck delamination repair is a big project. Don't let anyone trivialize the efforts involved. My deck was about 90% saturated and it took me about two months full time to complete the re-core. It's a very weather dependent project. This would probably be the biggest project you would have to undertake. My build sounds slightly different than smurphny's. On #54, there is solid laminate under the mast step (no core) running the full width of the cabin-house and the mast wiring runs through a fitting on the deck on the stbd side of the mast. The supporting structure below is 12 teak stanchions. 6 on each side of the bulkhead that support a pretty massive white oak beam. So, I guess the main bulkhead could be considered semi-structural. The beam was in good shape as were the bulkheads. I had a very small amount of perimeter rot where one of the chainplates had leaked a bit but it was easily repairable.
> 
> ...


I paid $9500 for mine, essentially the value of the basically new (75 hrs) Yanmar that the previous owners had installed. I have spent $20,000+ in the restoration project, including all new electronics:radar, SSB,VHF, plotter, computers, software, charts, rigging (including all welded s.s. parts, moving the chainplates outboard, recoring 80% of decks, Norvane, liferaft, re-rod in rudder, head, new manual and elec. pumps, refrigeration, solar panels, rewiring batteries w/ fused system, new batteries and battery box, and more. Don't underestimate what a refit will cost! My expenses were ALL in materials only so if you need to have anyone work on the boat, double that (at least).

Nice job on the plasticclassic site. I like that helm chair! So far I haven't come up with a really good solution to the sitting issue.


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## brob76 (Aug 6, 2009)

LOL. I think that helm chair was the first thing in the dumpster, along with the incredibly sketchy lpg system. I refinished the deck and cockpit last spring. I still need to sort out the sitting situation as well.

$20,000 in refit costs is about what I'm looking at in the end. I've probably got about $15,000 in at the moment and still plan to get some electronics. 100% my labor. That was my point about the asking price. If you spend $18,000 on the initial purchase and spend another $20,000 on a refit, you end up with a nearly $40,000 Alberg 35. You could buy another well outfitted cruiser for much less. There is a recently refitted and very well outfitted Alberg 35 for sell on Cruiser's Forum for $23,500: For Sale: Alberg 35, fully equipped! $23,500 obo - Cruisers & Sailing Forums


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

smurphny said:


> If you are going to live with a Yanmar, I highly recommend spending the bucks to get the service manual. It has more info, than you'll ever need and EVERYTHING that you will someday be looking for. All the torque curves are in there and good instructions on how to fix everything. I have found it essential on many occasions. The 3GM reaches peak torque between 2200 to 2800 rpm at 13-17 hp. The 2gm reaches peak at 2800 as well at 11 hp. The trick is to size the wheel so that when you are at hull speed, the engine is at the low end of that rpm spec. Fuel consumption for the 2GM looks like it's most efficient at 2800, which is also the peak torque. The 3GM is the same. The only issue is whether the 2GM can get the boat to hull speed at an efficient rpm. I doubt it. You would need to spin the 2GM at 3300 to get to only 13 hp. The 3GM on my boat does get the boat to hull speed at 16-18 hp/27-2800 rpm. They run very comfortably at this rpm. Hope this helps with your comparison.


The motor in the A35 in the OP is a Beta Marine. 
However, I have a Yammar 2GM20 in my current boat. 16hp/18hp at 2800. Cruise at 3000 and it hums. Not to go off topic, but how can the 3GM only be 13-17?


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

L124C said:


> The motor in the A35 in the OP is a Beta Marine.
> However, I have a Yammar 2GM20 in my current boat. 16hp/18hp at 2800. Cruise at 3000 and it hums. Not to go off topic, but how can the 3GM only be 13-17?


I thought it was low as well but that's right out of the tech manual. It's the hp at flywheel taken from the curve graphics.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

brob76 said:


> LOL. I think that helm chair was the first thing in the dumpster, along with the incredibly sketchy lpg system. I refinished the deck and cockpit last spring. I still need to sort out the sitting situation as well.
> 
> $20,000 in refit costs is about what I'm looking at in the end. I've probably got about $15,000 in at the moment and still plan to get some electronics. 100% my labor. That was my point about the asking price. If you spend $18,000 on the initial purchase and spend another $20,000 on a refit, you end up with a nearly $40,000 Alberg 35. You could buy another well outfitted cruiser for much less. There is a recently refitted and very well outfitted Alberg 35 for sell on Cruiser's Forum for $23,500: For Sale: Alberg 35, fully equipped! $23,500 obo - Cruisers & Sailing Forums


 Absolutely. With the current buyer's market in sailboats, the cost of fixing up a basket case is likely a lot higher than buying one that someone else has fixed up. I bought my Alberg because I wanted to work on a boat. I enjoy the fix-up as much as sailing. Being retired, it's great hobby. If the objective is sailing alone then considering a renovation is a questionable idea. The only caveat to that is things become obsolete quickly. If you upgrade electronics, rigging, etc., you start from day 1 on the maintenance aspect of all that stuff. Example: my liferaft ALREADY needs an expensive re-cert.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

smurphny said:


> If you are going to live with a Yanmar, I highly recommend spending the bucks to get the service manual. It has more info, than you'll ever need and EVERYTHING that you will someday be looking for. All the torque curves are in there and good instructions on how to fix everything. I have found it essential on many occasions. The 3GM reaches peak torque between 2200 to 2800 rpm at 13-17 hp. The 2gm reaches peak at 2800 as well at 11 hp. The trick is to size the wheel so that when you are at hull speed, the engine is at the low end of that rpm spec. Fuel consumption for the 2GM looks like it's most efficient at 2800, which is also the peak torque. The 3GM is the same. The only issue is whether the 2GM can get the boat to hull speed at an efficient rpm. I doubt it. You would need to spin the 2GM at 3300 to get to only 13 hp. The 3GM on my boat does get the boat to hull speed at 16-18 hp/27-2800 rpm. They run very comfortably at this rpm. Hope this helps with your comparison.


So, are you saying that 20hp might be sufficient for a A35? 
Given the A35's handling characteristics under power described earlier in thread (which I expect of a full keel boat), my biggest concern would be in close quarters (i.e., the marina). If the boat isn't doing what I want it to do, I need to change directions now, not 30 seconds from now. I'd also like the motor to have a chance to stop the boat if needed (I can have a stiff tail wind comming into my slip).
How does your A35 respond, having only 18 hp?


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

I was conveying what the power curves show from the Manual. The 3GM30F was advertized at 29 hp, I believe, but that must be at maximum revs. Assuming the data is correct in the Yanmar manual, when I cruise at 26-2800 rpm. the engine is producing around 15-17 hp at the flywheel and even less at the shaft. At 3000 the engine feels like it's revving too high and I'm pushing it too hard. I reach my hull speed of around 6.5 knots at around 2600 rpm. Pushing it any higher just results in diminishing returns. 

Maneuvering an A35 in close quarters is difficult. In reverse you have virtually NO control until you gain enough speed for the rudder to grab some water. Keel attached rudders have much less effect than rudders farther aft. I always approach any dock on my port side so that the prop wash in reverse will kick the stern in even if I have to wait to get in. Slowing forward momentum takes a Loooooong time. Everything needs to be planned and done in slow motion. I would also suggest putting a midship cleat in to use as a spring line attachment. The A35 has no midship cleat. Jon Eisberg gave me a great idea for installing cleats (which I did) a few months back so look up old posts from last summer for the details.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

smurphny said:


> I was conveying what the power curves show from the Manual. The 3GM30F was advertised at 29 hp, I believe, but that must be at maximum revs. Assuming the data is correct in the Yanmar manual, when I cruise at 26-2800 rpm. the engine is producing around 15-17 hp at the flywheel and even less at the shaft. At 3000 the engine feels like it's revving too high and I'm pushing it too hard. I reach my hull speed of around 6.5 knots at around 2600 rpm. Pushing it any higher just results in diminishing returns.
> 
> Maneuvering an A35 in close quarters is difficult. In reverse you have virtually NO control until you gain enough speed for the rudder to grab some water. Keel attached rudders have much less effect than rudders farther aft. I always approach any dock on my port side so that the prop wash in reverse will kick the stern in even if I have to wait to get in. Slowing forward momentum takes a Loooooong time. Everything needs to be planned and done in slow motion. I would also suggest putting a midship cleat in to use as a spring line attachment. The A35 has no midship cleat. Jon Eisberg gave me a great idea for installing cleats (which I did) a few months back so look up old posts from last summer for the details.


Yep...that does it. The Beta 20hp ain't going to work! Thanks for all your input, and the love you've shown your Alberg!

BTW, I had a friend who had the same 2GM20 I do (before I did). He hated it! Thought it was underpowered, had mechanical problems, etc. A mechanic at a leading Yanmar dealership asked him what he cruised at. He responded 2500 RPM. The Mechanic said: "That won't do it. This motor wants to work. Bring her up to 3000 and keep her there." (you won't find that anywhere in my Yanmar manual)! He increased the RPM, and fell in love with the motor, after hating it for 5 years!
I've found that some people who have been around diesels for years (unlike me) have a hard time thinking of a diesel cranking that fast. My motor is twenty years old and didn't receive the best care from PO's. Yet, it has been almost trouble free (two minor exceptions) for the 6 years I've owned it, and scoots my 4.5 Ton vessel along like a champ!
I assume from your comment about "living with a Yanmar" you may feel like he did, about your motor. Don't know, but maybe a prop conflict with your 3GM? Might be worth talking to a good Yanmar guy.
Thanks again!


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

> brob76 said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like a nice boat but the asking price is exceptionally high. Sounds like the owner is trying to recoup the costs of the re-power. I bought my A35 three years ago (1962 Hull# 54 - Auriga) and paid $7500. They were originally asking $19000. It was in about the same shape as the boat you're looking at. It had been well cared for but as in your case, nothing had been upgraded (except the engine) for many many years.
> ...


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## Sic Semper Tyrannis (Feb 19, 2012)

I have a 62 A35. 

Sailing:

She loves to sail at 15 degrees. Reef early and often and you wont have to worry over weather helm and she will still make good time. 

Don't pinch or you will just go sideway. Keep her driving. 

In light air she does fine. Ghosting through the lulls. But you cant pinch her!

She is heavy and will ghost through the lulls. 

Docking:


You will never get her to back anywhere but into the wind unless you get good with using propwash and prop walk. With a big rudder and a blast from prop wash you can usually do alright. 



Has a universal.m35 in her and i wouldnt go smaller. 

Interior:

She is not a floating condo like a modern 35 footer. But she will sleep more people than you really want to cruise her with. 

We would load 3kids and my wife and I and go cruise. But I would not do that with 5 adults! Maybe 4 for a weekend. 

Or 2 for a month. 

Lots of drawers, cubbies and hidden pockets for storage. Lots of room in keel for water tanks and a real bilge. 

Formica isn't the greatest but it is maintenance free. Enough wood trim to make her look good. I think of painting the panels but simply cant bring myself to do it. worried about scratches. 

The liner would not need to come out to remove the toe rails. 

Exterior:

Nice bulwark that provides great footing. Nice wood toe rail. 

Cockpit is not huge and tiller does take up some room. 

Decent sized fixed ports for light below. 

4 opening ports and 2 dorades for good ventilation. No seahood over companionway hatch. 


Structure:

Overbuilt. 
Even if the balsa core has some water the inner and outer skins are massive compared to modern construction. 

The glass in the hull is very thick and uses cloth with no chopper gun tigers anywhere. 

Chain plates are big and visible and bolted to major plywood bulkheads. 

The thing is a beast. 

Rig is simple and overbuilt too. 



Looks: 

You will always smile as you approach her, you will always turn back for one last look as you leave and you will almost always get compliments !


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## brob76 (Aug 6, 2009)

Ah, that asking price and what you're thinking of offering seem more realistic. I was looking at the price on Yachtworld. If you can get her for the low end of what you're thinking, then I think I would go for it.

I wouldn't necessarily write her off as underpowered with that engine. It depends on your planned use. If you're using the engine to get in and out of your slip and to avoid occasional danger, then you would probably be fine with the Beta. Beta's are solid engines and most all parts can be had relatively cheap from Kubota tractor parts dealers. James Baldwin powered an A35 with a 10hp outboard and reported that it performed adequately: Atom Voyages - Saga - Alberg 35 Refit Projects Interesting read. I like the extra power of the "26 hp" because I keep my boat on the Hudson River near NYC. I frequently have to motor again some nasty currents while dodging ferries, barges, tankers, jetskis etc etc.

Backing? With the far foward rudder these boats just don't like to back but with some practice, actually a lot of practice, it is doable. Especially if you can use prop walk to your advantage. I stay on a mooring and rarely dock so it's never been a big issue for me.

I have some pictures of the interior somewhere. I'll try to find them and post soon. Painting the cabin was one of the easier projects. Prep well and use a quality durable paint and you won't have to worry about scratching or marring. I personally just couldn't live with that wood grained formica another season. The liner is not an issue. It ends just below the dog house where the side deck turn out. It doesn't extend under the side decks. The only place the liner gets in the way is when installing hardware on the coach roof. The fasteners for my grab rails went through the liner and were secured with barrel bolts.

I have no idea what the PO of Auriga was thinking with the helm chair. Had to scratch my head for awhile on that one. The mainsheet was right in front of it too so not much utility as a helmsman's chair. Maybe he used it to fish off the stern . That hatch does look a little odd being that it opens to the side. I would prefer that it opened forward to catch some wind. Should be easy enough to sort out though.

The original Merriman and Southcoast hardware on these early Pearsons was/is very robust. All solid bronze. Those geared Merriman winches aren't the easiest to use but they are solid bronze and a heck of a lot less maintenance than modern self-tailers. They should serve you well for a long time. The PO of Auriga had added a pair Barient ST winches and left the original Merrimans for secondaries.

As far as deck delamination is concerned, if it's localized around fittings or chainplates, I wouldn't worry much about it. You can recore those spots as you go (or not). If the deck is totally saturated, it's gonna be a big job and reason enough to walk...at least knowing what I know now. The skins are extremely thick on these boats as mentioned above. You could practically walk around on the bottom skin alone with little deflection.

For the right price and assuming no major structural issues (deck, rudder etc), it still sounds like a viable deal to me. They are solid beautiful boats. As the previous poster said, you will smile every time you walk up and turn back as you walk away. I get lots of compliments and questions. She certainly stands out in a yard full of bleach bottles. People always ask if she's built of wood.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Sic Semper Tyrannis said:


> I have a 62 A35.
> 
> Sailing:
> 
> ...


That's been my take on the mica surfaces as well. They are very durable and clean up nicely. I have thought about painting them but have decided that although it would brighten the interior up a bit, it would just create a maintenance nightmare in the long run. Any paint gets chips, scratches, and discolors with time.

You will also love the way she handles. There is no pounding and she's very stable, even in a big following sea. Speaking of following seas, one thing you really should consider is some kind of preventer system which makes running a lot less dangerous.


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## brob76 (Aug 6, 2009)

I agree. She doesn't pound at all. I'll go bow into a big wake sometimes and expect to get tossed around like a rag doll. She just splits the wake like it's nothing. Same in following seas. The waves just split under the counter.

I originally rigged a preventer going to a block at the bow. It worked but was a hassle to set up every time I jibed. I also don't like the idea of a backwinded main in the event of an unplanned jibe. I found one of these (pictured below) buried in a locker and had no idea what it was. After some research I figured out it was a Walder Boom Brake. Really ingenious piece of kit for controlled jibes. I keep it rigged with a 4:1 purchase leading back to the cockpit all the time.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

brob76 said:


> > I wouldn't necessarily write her off as underpowered with that engine. It depends on your planned use. If you're using the engine to get in and out of your slip and to avoid occasional danger, then you would probably be fine with the Beta. Beta's are solid engines and most all parts can be had relatively cheap from Kubota tractor parts dealers. James Baldwin powered an A35 with a 10hp outboard and reported that it performed adequately: Atom Voyages - Saga - Alberg 35 Refit Projects Interesting read. I like the extra power of the "26 hp" because I keep my boat on the Hudson River near NYC. I frequently have to motor again some nasty currents while dodging ferries, barges, tankers, jetskis etc etc.
> > Backing? With the far forward rudder these boats just don't like to back but with some practice, actually a lot of practice, it is doable. Especially if you can use prop walk to your advantage. I stay on a mooring and rarely dock so it's never been a big issue for me.
> 
> 
> ...


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

There was a non-skid pattern in the deck from Pearson when she was built. Maybe someone has re-cored her already. After the re-coring, I did the decks with Kiwi Grip which I highly recommend. The stuff is easy to apply and unbelievably durable.
Never seen a side-opening hatch on an A35. One issue with the hatch is that it can snag your jib sheet under the right conditions. Wrapping a pc. of line or a pc. of shock cord in the space can eliminate the problem. 

I like the look of that brake. I tried the bow line method as well. The problem is that there is not enough angle from the bow. Recently built a really heavy-duty "ladder" type brake from some 1/2" s.s. stock but have not given it a good test yet. I think it will probably work well. I made a long plate shaped to the boom that spreads the load out. I'm always worried about the possibility of bending the boom with a midpoint preventer. A set preventer has more danger of damaging the boom if the sail hits the water whereas the friction device will give.


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## brob76 (Aug 6, 2009)

+1 for Kiwigrip. Went on quite easily and seems pretty durable after one season. Looks great too and better footing than any molded non-skid I've seen. On Auriga, the original molded non-skid had worn down to where the pattern was barely noticeable. Maybe you're seeing the remains of the original non-skid...or maybe someone did some re-core work. You never know on these old boats.

The mid-boom preventer made me nervous too. With a boom that long, there is a good chance of it bending, or worse, snapping if you dunk it. That's what I like about the brake. I had a nasty unintentional jibe last year and the brake gave even though I had it tensioned down pretty well.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

I've had the Kiwi on for three years now and it's still looking good. Singlehanding, the primary consideration for me was the grip. I painted down around all the rounded corners and sloped areas to minimize any slippery spots. The only place where it shows any problem is where some of the gel coat crazing is "spidering" through in a small area where the core was not replaced. I just got a quart to do some touch-up next spring. The stuff also blends in very well after repairs as I found out after removing the balsa and re-glassing solid under my mast step. Up in the bow where anchoring activity takes place constantly, it has held up remarkably well.

There really seems to be no avoiding an occasional unintentional jibe. The safety factor alone in at least slowing down the boom from taking your head off is worth having some kind of brake in place. The boom swings about 1" over my head, not much room for error!!


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## olmoose (Nov 29, 2012)

Well Greetings Forum Friends, I guess this is as good a time as any to introduce myself. My first post and another confirmed Alberg 35 owner and lover. 

I have hull #11 and it was (reportedly) built in 1961 by the Pearson Brothers prior to their founding Pearson Boats. I have owned her for around 9 years now and have done some racing and some offshore cruising but primarily weekend sailing getaways. It was professionally restored at great expense by a PO over 15 years ago. It is now somewhat "long in the tooth" and will require more attention, but not for safety or seaworthiness, non-skid excepted. 

I find the sailing qualities excellent. Having said that, it was an acquired skill to learn her idiosyncrasies having sailed other in theory more modern designs. The full keel and rudder design do require some learned technique. I find myself now able to sail her (single handed) as I did my other more modern vessels. I plan accordingly and always sail with a clean bottom. I never plan on backing into a tight quarter and when I back I try to use momentum and remain in neutral. I usually sail onto and off of my anchor. 

My Wife and I spent several months cruising Bahamas with her and I confess my love of this vessel is not shared. She would much prefer a larger yacht. I find myself treating her like a piece of fine furniture and dote excessively. Hence my comments regarding the non-skid. I have all but scrubbed it off! 

For me her beauty lies in her simplicity. I do have refrigeration, modern Yanmar 3-GM, manual windless and a chart plotter. Not much else. Not much to work on or break down. Modern self-tailing winches help me single hand, but rigging still resides at the mast. Mine is a tiller and I use a simple electric linear drive autohelm (of which I keep a spare). 

I guess my intro is running a little long! Oh well, my opinion (and we all know about opinions) on the Alberg 35 (as a species, not a comment on any particular vessel) is this. For the money; you will not find many vessels as seaworthy, fine sailing, well constructed with beautiful lines as the Alberg 35.

And, Hi all! 
Olmoose


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Great to hear from you Olmoose. Maybe we can revive the A35 forum here. The A35 owners website seems to be permanently ignored by the person who is supposed to maintain it, so there seems to be no official on-line meeting place as of now. #11 IS an oldie. Does she still have a wooden boom? Mine is a 1967, #273 and I WISH I had a manual windlass.


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## olmoose (Nov 29, 2012)

Yes, wooden boom but I am slab reefing it (VS Rolling). Agree about the A-35 Forum, Tom I guess has been busy or lost interest. 

Funny thing about the windless, I rarely if ever use it. Even when off shore with 200' chain I found that pulling up the anchor afforded me the workout I needed. Obviously with a strong blow and long fetch it requires some assistance. 
Regards,
Olmoose


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## brob76 (Aug 6, 2009)

Auriga has an aluminum boom from Metalmast. I'm not sure if it was a retrofit or came from Pearson. I have an old Simpson Lawrence manual vertical windless and about 200' of chain. I usually pull it by hand as well but it comes in handy when the wind and tide are strong.

I would love to get an active forum going. There is an Alberg 35 Yahoo group that I assume was started by Tom. If you haven't seen it, here's the link: ALBERG35 : PEARSON ALBERG 35. It's unfortunately rarely active. Tom has actually posted a bunch of updates on his own refit but it was in a corner of the site that was hard to find. Here's the link: 1965 Alberg 35 Tomfoolery - Hull 212.

I own a web development/hosting company so I would be happy to set up and host a forum if there is enough interest.


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## Sic Semper Tyrannis (Feb 19, 2012)

brob76 said:


> Auriga has an aluminum boom from Metalmast. I'm not sure if it was a retrofit or came from Pearson. I have an old Simpson Lawrence manual vertical windless and about 200' of chain. I usually pull it by hand as well but it comes in handy when the wind and tide are strong.
> 
> I would love to get an active forum going. There is an Alberg 35 Yahoo group that I assume was started by Tom. If you haven't seen it, here's the link: ALBERG35 : PEARSON ALBERG 35. It's unfortunately rarely active. Tom has actually posted a bunch of updates on his own refit but it was in a corner of the site that was hard to find. Here's the link: 1965 Alberg 35 Tomfoolery - Hull 212.
> 
> I own a web development/hosting company so I would be happy to set up and host a forum if there is enough interest.


That would be something I set up a while ago....it is underutilized.

EVERYONE here sign up please!! I'd love for it to be bigger and more useful!!


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

I'm with you on the morning workout! Hauling my 45# anchor and 60' of 3/8" chain by hand is always a great way to start the day UGH.

Philyria has one of those useless roller booms. I slab reef but like the boom because it is a hefty chunk of aluminum. The roller mechanism is a waste. They were a bad idea from the git-go. Am seriously considering shortening the boom by about a foot and have actually recut a cruising main to fit a shortened boom. Once my big, battened, roached main is worn out, the next new one will be on a shorter boom. 

I've been on the Yahoo group site but few people seem to use it. It would be nice to have a good official A35 site where details of projects and boat-specific info. could be shared. I see a lot of A35s on the water and can't believe the interest is not there if a website were maintained.

Nice job on the Tomfoolery pages! The core job looks Soooo familiar!


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

smurphny said:


> I'm with you on the morning workout! Hauling my 45# anchor and 60' of 3/8" chain by hand is always a great way to start the day UGH.
> 
> Philyria has one of those useless roller booms. I slab reef but like the boom because it is a hefty chunk of aluminum. The roller mechanism is a waste. They were a bad idea from the git-go. Am seriously considering shortening the boom by about a foot and have actually recut a cruising main to fit a shortened boom. Once my big, battened, roached main is worn out, the next new one will be on a shorter boom.
> 
> I've been on the Yahoo group site but few people seem to use it. It would be nice to have a good official A35 site where details of projects and boat-specific info. could be shared. I see a lot of A35s on the water and can't believe the interest is not there if a website were maintained.


Did Pearson go from wood to aluminum booms? If so, when?
What is the advantage to going with a shorter boom over simply reefing early and having the extra sail for light air?
Regarding owners sites: Yankee made less than 140 Yankee 30's (my boat)before they went out of business, most of which are still sailing. I've found the owners site next to useless, do to lack of participation, and have derived much more value from Sailnet. On the other hand, I'm envious of the Erickson owners site. They were very helpful with a Ericson project I was looking at. So, I guess there is strength in numbers! As I understand it, The A35 is the same boat as the A/E 35 with the exception of 500 pounds less ballast and the coach top design on the Ericson, so it might be a valuable resource. I think they would welcome you. Very active site, great people!


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

I don't know when they started with aluminum booms. If the wood booms actually weight over 100#, it was probably a good idea. The aluminum boom weighs maybe 60#. The reason people are shortening the booms is because of the weather helm issue but you are absolutely right that doing it would also lose the square footage for light air. These boats were competitive in their day and were used by a lot of club racing so they were maxxed out to specs as far as sails go. My mast still has the luff marks that indicated maximum luff length to meet race measurements. Something else to mention to folks thinking about an A35 is that they are slow as molasses compared to modern designs. That said, I remember one day heading over from the CC Canal across the bay when some of the more modern designs turned tail as the waves got larger. The old A35 took 'em in stride. I had waves breaking into the cockpit at times but she never missed a beat. 

Sailnet is a great resource but there seem to be few people who ever access the Alberg thread. I see Alberg 35s wherever I go. There are still many in service. There are individual blogs and it's easy to web search for info but a central location to create a database of projects, what works and doesn't (such as boom shortening) and useful information as well as reviews on equipment, etc. would be helpful. The question above about when the boom changed would likely be available.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

*Story of my life...It's too big!*

Asked the seller why he went with a 20hp motor. He replied that he bought a 27 but it "wouldn't fit in the hull" so they went with the 20. Hard to believe that with all this space (gotta love the access!) they couldn't make a 27 fit.
He claims 20hp is plenty, especially since it's a diesel (there is that diesel vs. gas hp thing again). Yet, he also said he didn't think he was using the extra hp with the A4 anyway. Not that it matters, she's got 20hp and that's that. But it does throw the credibility of the claim that 20's plenty into question. 
Would have made more sense if he said, "We never used all the power from the A4, so we decided on 20hp for the refit. 
Conditions could be benign during a sea trial and it might be hard to determine if she's under powered. 
You guys buying the "wouldn't fit" excuse?
Edit: After I posted this, I decided to post the same question in the diesel forum.
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/diesel-engine-forum/94826-could-27-hp-fit-here.html#post959197


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## brob76 (Aug 6, 2009)

The 27 would definitely fit. That's the same engine I have in Auriga. Beta and Universal both use the Kubota D1005. I have plenty of space in the engine room to work. From the picture it looks like they kept the original engine beds and put some aluminum bar to accommodate the extra width of the mounts. It would have been much better to cut out the engine beds and glass in new beds the proper width. Looks like the aluminum is lag bolted to the engine beds which is not a good idea either. Would have been better to through-bolt steel angle or something of the sort. I doubt shaft length was an issue as someone suggested on the diesel forum. Looks like there is room to move the mounts fore or aft on those aluminum plates. That was probably the largest engine they could get on those original beds. I've seen an A35 with a 35 hp engine so engine room space is not the issue.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

There is room for a much larger engine but the old engine mounts need to be cut away and new, wider mounts glassed in. It's a pretty big job. That's probably why they went with a smaller engine. Kinda like the tail wagging the dog


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

Noticed that the shower drain on the boat in the OP simply terminates under the shower pan as the photo shows. In the boats drawings, I see that it is supposed to drain to a sump. I guess that as shown in the picture, the water simply runs around the water storage tank, to the bilge. 
I assume the seller was not using the shower, especially given the fact he has not seen fit to even install a auto bilge pump in the boat!
In any case, were did the original sump drain, and is it necessary?


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Mine's the same way. There was what looked like the remnants of a shower sump pump down there but it's so inaccessible that it's just not a good place for one there under the shower base. Mine is piped w/ 1-1/2" right to the bilge next to the bilge pump. Works fine. If there were a bunch of people using it on a regular basis, it would probably need some sort of screen.


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## Pendragon35 (Jun 26, 2014)

I'm Jim, my Alberg 35 is Pendragon. I believe she is a 1965 boat but I don't have a hull number and I've never been able to find anything that tells me how to certainly identify it. It's not on the boat title papers.

Pendragon was previously owned by James Schnittker, who kept her in Baltimore, at Anchorage Marina. We bought the slip with the boat, so she's staying there. Apparently a previous owner had her in Chicago, because that's the city on her stern.

Original wooden boom which I find a pain...soooo heavy. Slab reefing, roller furling 130% jib. Yanmar 3g30 diesel. Learning about the diesel has been a big part of the last few months (we bought her in July, 2014).

We have the "traditional" lay out: settees on both sides in the main cabin, icebox starboard, galley port. A previous owner built a beautiful chart table between the galley and the port settee. There is no hot water, which was apparently originally standard. We haven't really tried the shower other than to turn it on, make a mess, and say "ok, that works." 

I love sailing her and although I'm still mastering the mystery of backing her out of the slip and getting her back, she sails like a dream. Fast isn't always the goal. Fun is.


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## Pendragon35 (Jun 26, 2014)

Sic Semper Tyrannis said:


> I have a 62 A35.
> 
> Sailing:
> 
> ...


Thanks for this. I own an Alberg 35 (Anchorage Marina/Baltimore, MD, s/v Pendragon). And you're right: I never leave without looking back.

Weather Helm: Yes. I often sail with the first reef in the main and a 135% jib, that seems to generally cure the weather helm. I have oldish sails, I'm sure new ones would help.

Sailing: Like others have said, she heels right away, then stays there. Nothing seems to stop her, she cuts through waves, and as long as reasonably handled, feels safe and secure. Once she hits her preferred heel, she's on rails. I have a wheel with an autopilot and with the sails balanced, the weather helm is minimal enough under 15 knots wind to work.

Under power/docking: I have a Yanmar 3gm30 with 600 hours. It took a while to learn about prop walk; now I see it as an advantage. I back out of the slip. This was terrifying at first but someone taught me this trick: I run a long floating line from a stern cleat to a cleat on the portside finger pier to a mid-ship cleat on the port side. Put the boat in gear, slowly back out, slacking the line until we are about half way out. Turn the rudder appropriately and harden up on the line. The boat pivots; I release the stern cleat and pull in quickly on the line. As the bow come about 30 deg to the straight line out, put her in forward, burst power, and off we go. I can do this maneuver single handed now.

Coming into the dock, as someone said, everything has to be planned, everything is done slowly. My biggest failures are docking; I tend to lose way too fast. The theory is that I grab a spring line as we come in, but it hasn't always worked.

I do, as the poster said, find I always look back when I leave the marina.


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## roverhi (Dec 19, 2013)

20 hp is adequate for the boat's displacement unless water skiing is your thing. Should maneuver without other than the typical full keel issues around the marina. Might be a bit challenged going directly into strong winds and seas. Owned a W32 for years with a Volvo MD2 diesel. Something like 24hp to push the 20,000#s around. It was over propped, wouldn't reach max RPM in flat water, so was challenged beating into headsea and strong wind but we almost never encountered those conditions. When we wanted to go against wind and waves, motor sailed easily doing 5k about 35 degrees off the wind with the engine at about 1500 rpm. Current boat is daughter of the Alberg35, the Pearson 35. Similar displacement though a bit more water line. Does have a 3GM30 in it which I think is officially 27hp. Similarly maneuvering challenged but never use full throttle in the Marina or anywhere else for than matter.

Full keel boat designs typically have slack bilges, the classic white wine glass shape. They are designed this way to cut down on wetted surface for better light air performance. It makes the boat initially tender heeling to 15 degrees in light air typically. The benefit is they stiffen up once that far over and have much greater ultimate stability than the modern flat bottomed boats. Since these boats are typically heavier displacement, they are much more comfortable at sea or choppy conditions. As others have said, the short water line, longish overhangs are relics of the CCA rule. Made for beautiful boats that sail well once the boat is heeled and able to take advantage of the longer water line from the over hangs. Light air isn't their forte because of the wetted surface. Boats will sail in light air though not as well as boats with markedly less wetted surface. Once the wind perks up, will sail with fin keelers and even drop them astern in even heavier winds. Worst thing you can say about the CCA boats is you have to pay slip fees for those overhangs.

These boats all seem to develop hull caused weather helm as speed increases. I love it but then the self steering vane does most of my steering. Find the tiller way easier to steer with the weather helm than a wheel. So much so I ditched the wheel on the P35. Keep the big main for light air performance. Set the boat up for easy reefing if you want to reduce weather helm in higher winds/boat speed. Have run all the Main Sail controls to the cockpit. With the double line reefing, can reef in a minute from the comfort and safety of the cockpit.


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## Pendragon35 (Jun 26, 2014)

L124C said:


> How does a boat track well and have excessive weather helm at the same time? Seems like a contradiction in terms. Don't mind heeling, but if I couldn't tune out the weather helm with sail trim or reducing sail (nothing "fancy"), that would be a problem. Heading up occasionally in a gust is fine, but you shouldn't have to fight weather helm for hours. Surely Alberg knew that!


I've had an Alberg 35 (out of Anchorage Marina, Baltimore) for four years. Mine is sloop rigged. I have a standard rigged main with full battens and a 130% genoa on a furler. 
Most of what's been said here is accurate about her sailing characteristics. Upwind even in 10 knots, she heels 15 degrees or so-just before the caprail is in the water. Makes for exciting sailing. Tracks like she's on rails. 
She's got that long keel so the other side of that is that it takes some practice to reliably come about. I sail singlehanded often and I still get stuck in stays every once in a whlie; embarassing. 
The weather helm comment is common and true. The most obvious, easiest cure I've found is simply to take a single reef. Once the pressure is lessened aft, the weather helm and heeling decreases. 
The comment about being small inside is true as well. Any Catalina 30 and up will be bigger. The A35 is narrow. Also: backing is an interesting experience. Mine has signfiicant prop walk to port. On the other hand, I can spin her more or less i her own length; I did that in a marina fairway last summer when we came down the wrong lane. oops. You learn to compensate and not to go backward fast. 
The comment about drawing looks is true as well. I love mine ("Pendragon"). She makes me crazy sometimes. She's made me a better sailor. I wouldn't trade her for anything.


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