# Looking for premium coastal cruiser 39 LOA or less



## SailingJackson (Jan 1, 2011)

I'm looking for suggestions on the move to a high quality boat. Here's the criteria:

Right now I have a Catalina 36 which is exceptionally well outfitted for single handed coastal or Great Lakes sailing. Full suite electronics, bow thruster, new sails, cruising chute, etc. I do not want a bigger boat because I very often sail alone. I know I can handle a 45' boat single handed out of the harbor, but docking single handed in a 25 knot cross wind would be out of the question with a large boat. I have no problems with the 36' boat under any conditions.

I've looked at new Catalina, Hunter, Bavaria, Dehler, and the common French boats. None of them seem as well built as Catalina. Any switch there would not be moving up.

I like all the modern toys, I like modern hull shapes, I like swim platforms, I like a fair turn of speed. This seems to take the old slow classics out of the picture. That means Island Packet, Alden, Morris, Hood, Hinckley, Shannon, and other premium builders are of out of the running.

All I can find that in modern cruisers that are less than 39' LOA would be the Tartan 3700 and the Hallberg-Rassy 372. Both are fast but classic looking, yet have lots of modern comfort features. Are there others? What am I missing?

Looking for ideas.....
GTJ


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Your query implies a healthy budget, but there's still a 'range' I think you need to define. And strictly new?? or lightly used? Willing to ship from Europe? If so that opens up a whole new world!

Don't know if you followed PCP's "Interesting Sailboats" thread, but the first few hundred pages will have some good info for you, though mostly eurocentric. Some very interesting boats built over there, few of which seem to be imported to N.A.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/62341-interesting-sailboats.html


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

How about something from J boat? If you want more performance but still decent accommodations there is the J111. If you want real good performance but more comfort there is the new J112E. 

I also like Jeanneau, the Sun Odyssey 379 would be pretty nice.

Barry


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Agree that some of the new Jboats should be on the list.. but I don't think Jeanneau is an adequate 'upgrade' for the OP.

He's pretty clearly heading for the next tier.


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## zeilfanaat (Feb 28, 2002)

The first thing that comes to my mind is X-Yachts; the Xc 35 or Xc 38 look like a sweet ride.

What is it about your Catalina 36 that makes you want to move up?


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## SailingJackson (Jan 1, 2011)

Faster said:


> Your query implies a healthy budget, but there's still a 'range' I think you need to define. And strictly new?? or lightly used? Willing to ship from Europe? If so that opens up a whole new world!.....
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/62341-interesting-sailboats.html


For new vs used, it's mostly a time issue. I'm 62 years old and the horizon is not far off for my sailing years. I'm very open to a lightly used boat since they seem to commission sooner. With a meticulous previous owner a used boat should be ready to go. It could easily take a year or more to get the bugs out of a new boat. Whoever buys my current boat will be way ahead of a new boat buyer in terms of throwing off lines and going places.

I'm also open to shipping from Europe, but I'm reserved on the smaller brand names. I don't want to have difficult with replacement parts on pumps, motors, and things like that. Aren't the docks in Europe fitted with 220 volts?

I noted comments RE Jeanneau. I've been on lots of those and I think it's really a Ford/Chevy thing. Not a significant step up. I mean, trade in a lead keel for an iron keel? Also, J boats are wonderful, but even the cruising models are pretty lean inside.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

SailingJackson said:


> For new vs used, it's mostly a time issue. I'm 62 years old and the horizon is not far off for my sailing years.


If you're just 62, say it ain't so!!  



SailingJackson said:


> I'm also open to shipping from Europe, but I'm reserved on the smaller brand names. I don't want to have difficult with replacement parts on pumps, motors, and things like that. Aren't the docks in Europe fitted with 220 volts?.


I suspect that even on European boats (except for the shore power issues you bring up) that engines, pumps, etc are all going to primarily be mainstream brands like Volvo, Yanmar, Jabsco etc.

Sounds like you need to a)f ind the right boat, about 2-3 years old, and b) find one for sale that's had a similarly meticulous owner as yourself.

The latter, especially, may be a tall order!


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## SailingJackson (Jan 1, 2011)

zeilfanaat said:


> The first thing that comes to my mind is X-Yachts; the Xc 35 or Xc 38 look like a sweet ride.
> 
> What is it about your Catalina 36 that makes you want to move up?


Xc 38 does look interesting. The interior does look very Ikea, like most of the low cost European boats, but the deck plan and rigging is nice. Tartan would be a slam-dunk if they got the traveler out of the cockpit. The Xc 38 has done that part well.

My Catalina does most everything very well and I like the boat. The wing keel is great for getting into shallow spots but I think they could have made it a bit deeper. The boat goes sideways a bit easier than I would like. Mostly I'm looking at getting into a better built boat. Higher end boats often have more organized wiring, better bilge access, better hardware access, and things like that.


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## desert rat (Feb 14, 2013)

For coastal cruseing I would want a boat that could snake up a small stream to hide from 
a storm or dry out safely on a mud flat as the tide goes out. 39 ft seems a bit large. As above the English and French have a lot of costal sailors.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

If you will consider used I would look for a Sabre 386 or 362.

Here's one:
2010 Sabre 386 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

C&C 115 might meet your needs.

Barry


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

We looked at the X 35c at Annapolis and very much liked it. A large step up from the generic European boats. Also a large step up in price.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

If you are looking at great build quality, then the Allerion Express 38 or the Morris M36x would be at the very top of my list. Neither will cross oceans comfortably, but they are amazing works of art that happen to be sailboats.


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## Silversailor (Jul 13, 2000)

Have you looked at the Hanse 385 or the Dehler 38. Both offer a significant step up from the other production boats mentioned. The new Dehler is more racer oriented than the Hanse but both have comfortable cruising interiors and accommodations.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

+1 for Barry. I was surprised not to see Sabres mentioned as an option by the OP. While our J/36 passes them to leeward, they certainly perform better than a Catalina. Sabre joinery and accommodations are well done. The boats are well-built, comfortable, AND seaworthy. Certainly worth a look.


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## SailingJackson (Jan 1, 2011)

BarryL said:


> Hey,
> 
> If you will consider used I would look for a Sabre 386 or 362.
> 
> ...


I appreciate all the suggestions and all provoke a good deal of thinking, but most are pretty easy to pass off. The idea of a Sabre 386 is excellent and one that I had not thought of. Certainly Sabre is far better built than Catalina, my current boat. Never the less, if I wanted move "up" with a switch to the particular used Sabre recommended I would have to be adding a few things that already exist on my middle class Catalina. Those items include a 12" chartplotter (not 9"), bow thruster, roller furling main, Sirius satellite weather, AIS transponder, reverse cycle air/heat, 4D AIS batteries, 140 Amp alternator, and a mast mounted whisker pole. That's probably around $50K upgrades. Hmmmm....

As regards the suggestion of Allerion Express 38 or the Morris M36x, those are both exceptionally beautiful boats. Very classic, very well built, but basically designed as a rich person's day sailor. Not much at all in terms of the conveniences of a modern coastal cruiser.

As regards the suggestion of Hanse 385 or the Dehler 38, all I can say is "Really?". Both are low cost production boats with Ikea style woodwork. Ok for the price, but certainly not better than Catalina. A new Dehler is less than $250K. I expect at new Tartan to be around $400K and a new Hallberg-Rassy to be on the wrong side of 500K before it gets stateside.

Let's keep looking......


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

SailingJackson said:


> Tartan would be a slam-dunk if they got the traveler out of the cockpit.


Uhhh, the traveler on the Tartan 3700 is not in the cockpit, but rather forward of the companionway... Of the boats you've mentioned, the H-R 372 would be my personal choice, hands down, I really like that boat... But, of course, the traveler IS in the cockpit...

I'll never understand what seems to be a uniquely American aversion to having the mainsheet in the cockpit. You say you often sail alone, so why would you want it elsewhere? Few things make singlehanded sailing more inconvenient, than having the traveler/mainsheet controls out of reach from the helm...

J-Boats is one of the very few American builders that continue to stay with a cockpit mainsheet configuration. Somehow, I doubt it's entirely a coincidence, that J-boats might also very well be the one 'Brand' that might be _LEAST_ likely to be seen motoring, when sailing conditions are favorable... )

However, I think we know the _real_ reason Americans eschew the mainsheet in the cockpit... They rule out the fitting of a full enclosure, of course...

)

Seems to me the Tartan 3700 would suit you well... I'm not a fan of self-tacking headsails myself, but if you're doing a lot of solo sailing, might be worth it to you. Someone else already mentioned it, but if that's the sort of boat you're looking at, I'd suggest looking at the Sabre 386, I think that's a very sweet boat...


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

SailingJackson said:


> Never the less, if I wanted move "up" with a switch to the particular used Sabre recommended I would have to be adding a few things that already exist on my middle class Catalina. Those items include a 12" chartplotter (not 9"), bow thruster, *roller furling main*, Sirius satellite weather, AIS transponder, reverse cycle air/heat, 4D AIS batteries, 140 Amp alternator, and a mast mounted whisker pole. That's probably around $50K upgrades. Hmmmm....


Wait a second... You're currently sailing a Catalina with a shoal draft wing keel, and a furling mainsail, and are yet ruling _"the old slow classics... Alden, Morris, Hood, Hinckley..."_ out of the picture?

Hmmm...

)


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Shoal draft, furling main, would be major DEAL breakers for me.........

Sabre while nice boats, are not building sail boat any more, so you are stuck with used ones, hoping to find one that will meet your needs. 

For me it is find interior plan I like, then go after brands with that floor plan, along with cockpit traveler for reasons mentioned, non furling main, jib might be nice, as long as I can remove the drum when racing. Along with a deep(est) keel I can get. But those are my specs thank you very much. For OP, figure out floor plan, then find brands that fit YOUR needs, not mine!

marty


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

I was going to say hanse and morris but then saw you dont like them or say they are equal or less then a catalina which I find interesting

id take either over a catalina no questions asked

I love j boats but they are trully all race boats...they just cant design a comfortable cruiser, a racy cruiser yes but it would change too much of the j boaty feel

thats just my opinion...I have been on a 36ft j boat extensively down here in el salvador while the wood trim and feel is great its just a race boat, feels like one and sails like one
however I was surprises how nice it looked...inside that is...it had leather cushions...lots of varnish a mirror that opened up the feel of the cabin...etc...

the mast is thin as hell, rod rigging...light decks massive chainplates...etc...

lots of engineering going on on j boats...that wouldnt make a HIGH END coastal cruiser in my book

seems to me you are really looking for an oyster, or swan or high end boat. so look at those types...

good luck

ps I love some hallberg rassy boats...not familiar with the new new ones...


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

There's a Morris Ocean 38, and a few 36 Justine's in brokerage right now.

I'm biased, but these are both great sailing boats, built for cruising, easy on the eye and I can say for sure that single handing one in you're 6th decade on the planet is both possible and pleasurable. 

Again, this is an extremely biased recommendation


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

There are a number of Chuck Paine designs that might hit the right buttons.. built by Morris and Able, among others.. perhaps more of a traditional look than the OP is seeking, but certainly avoiding "Ikea" interiors.

I still think that the cruising Js (32, 40, 44, 46) aren't lacking particularly in creature comforts, have classic good lines and that low-maintenance wood-free exterior (which we also have and give thanks for constantly).. and better than average performance. Could be, however that none of these might be 'new enough'.

The C&C 115 was mentioned already; a friend bought one last year (MAJOR move up from a 40 yr old C&C 30) He's pleased as punch.

In WA they are building an updated version of the Nordic 40 - now called the Northstar, quite liked what we saw there at the Seattle Boat show a couple of years back.. it showed very well against the Benehuntajeans there, not a 'new' design but still a good one, well fitted out.

This is an interesting question, actually, esp with the current (limited) state of the North American boat building industry. With an generous budget I think I'd definitely be heading for Europe... Or get someone like Perry to design me exactly what I wanted...


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

interesting.

I wonder what pros there are to building your boat(price wise today) versus getting a slightly used new boat

not that Im in the market but what are the percentages of total cost these days to get plans or a builder or a designing team to build a mid 30s or 40ft boat like the op says.


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## SailingJackson (Jan 1, 2011)

JonEisberg said:


> Wait a second... You're currently sailing a Catalina with a shoal draft wing keel, and a furling mainsail, and are yet ruling _"the old slow classics... Alden, Morris, Hood, Hinckley..."_ out of the picture?
> 
> Hmmm...
> 
> )


OK, I looked closer. The M36 is a daysailor. The M36x is a cruiser as is my lowly Catalina 36. Both are about 36' LOA, but the Catalina has 30' of waterline while the M36x has 25'. The displacement of the M36x is 5000 lbs less. That's not all carbon fiber, it's just less boat. M36x has a beam of 10' while the Catalina has 12' and the beam is brought far to the stern, like most modern cruisers. There's much more living space in the Catalina.

I imagine I'm beating to windward side by side with an M36x and we're both headed toward some beautiful little cove for the night. I'm just as fast since she has such a short waterline, but she will point much better. The M36x will look truly beautiful as she sails past me. During several hours of sailing I'll make lunch, which is easy since my beamy modern cruiser is sailing pretty flat. Aboard the M36x it's far more difficult. More sail area and less beam, the boat will be healing such that cooking is difficult, and landlubber passengers are uncomfortable, and using the head is damn difficult. She will get to the cove before me, but she'll have to anchor far offshore due to the deep draft. With my shoal keel I'll sail into the protection closer to shore and probably the guests will play off the swim platform on the back of my boat. While we're enjoying the catbird seats, the spacious interior, and the playground of the scoop transom we'll also enjoy the view of the classic lines of the beautiful M36x at anchor in deep water. I might feel a ting of sympathy for the crew of the M36x who only have my dumpy old Catalina to look at.

On the other hand, I did look at that used Morris 38 Ocean. While missing a lot of the modern cruiser features, it does have some interior space and a decent waterline. I'd only have to spend about $40k to $50k for upgrades to bring it up to the conveniences that are already on my Catalina. Very pretty boat. Maybe I could like without a swim platform.

GTJ


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

christian.hess said:


> interesting.
> 
> I wonder what pros there are to building your boat(price wise today) versus getting a slightly used new boat...


Given the buyers market these days I'd expect you'd pay many times the price to build vs buying 'nearly equivalent' used. Perhaps 4-5 times...


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

christian.hess said:


> interesting.
> 
> I wonder what pros there are to building your boat(price wise today) versus getting a slightly used new boat
> 
> not that Im in the market but what are the percentages of total cost these days to get plans or a builder or a designing team to build a mid 30s or 40ft boat like the op says.


IMHO there is NO good financial reason to build new. But there are plenty of emotional reasons. You get exactly what you want, no one else has messed up any systems, no one else has overheated your diesel, etc. Of course, there are no good financial reasons to own any boat. None.

It is interesting that in cruising boats, no one wants to build "small." Everyone wants a big cruising boat or a so called "picnic" style fancy day boat. When we built the 38 Morris we had to pull the mold out of the back 40.

I'm convinced after 6 decades of messing around with this stuff that you should cruise in the smallest boat you can stand to live on. Simple, self sufficient, no crew required, one person can man handle a sail to remove it, no bow thrusters, gensets, power furlers, .... Every complex system requires care. Even if you hire people to do it, it takes time away from sailing when it fails.

We've had big and small, the answer is someplace between high 30's and low 40's. That's what we think, but you know, we might be wrong

One thing for sure is, you might run out of money, but for sure we are all going to run out of time. And if you don't, you'll be the first one I've heard of.


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## SailingJackson (Jan 1, 2011)

christian.hess said:


> interesting.
> 
> I wonder what pros there are to building your boat(price wise today) versus getting a slightly used new boat
> 
> not that Im in the market but what are the percentages of total cost these days to get plans or a builder or a designing team to build a mid 30s or 40ft boat like the op says.


I'm just guessing, but I think the numbers for a new boat with 15,000 to 20,000 lb displacement might go something like this:

Middle Class production (Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau) boat: $250,000 to $300,000

High End Production (Tartan, Hallberg-Rassy, etc) $400,000 to $750,000

Semi Custom Boat : $750,000 +


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

GTJ

I love my Nonsuch 30 Ultra and have not looked at another boat since I bought it in 1995. They are available in a range of sizes up to 36 feet used. They are also available to be custom built by a yard in Canada that has the molds.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Faster said:


> Given the buyers market these days I'd expect you'd pay many times the price to build vs buying 'nearly equivalent' used. Perhaps 4-5 times...


so this hasnt changed much since the 70s 80s, and 90s then?
its still more expensive to do so?

I would of thought that with the recessions we have had lately that designers and or builders would be willing to drop their prices more in order to keep afloat business wise...

I was more interested I guess in the ratio of cost per value(of building) of equal boat on the market per se


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

SailingJackson said:


> I'm just guessing, but I think the numbers for a new boat with 15,000 to 20,000 lb displacement might go something like this:
> 
> Middle Class production (Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau) boat: $250,000 to $300,000
> 
> ...


thats a good general view it seems seems reasonable

I just cant fathom though even if I had the money paying such an inflated price for a "custom" build for a 40 ft boat...

I mean even a 2-5 year old boat in the 35 to 40ft range wont cost more than 200-300k would it?

even on the high end range right? or am I smoking the good stuff???

200k used 40 footer or so plus 50 k in mods your still a 3rd of the price of a custom boat

what point is there to custom(this isnt bagging designers btw) say for coastal cruising? I mean racing no questions asked or say planning a southern ocean or high latitde cruise...custom or highly modfied is great but for coastal?

Im guessing not many people go the custom build right? even if you had the money?


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

capecodda said:


> IMHO there is NO good financial reason to build new. But there are plenty of emotional reasons. You get exactly what you want, no one else has messed up any systems, no one else has overheated your diesel, etc. Of course, there are no good financial reasons to own any boat. None.
> 
> It is interesting that in cruising boats, no one wants to build "small." Everyone wants a big cruising boat or a so called "picnic" style fancy day boat. When we built the 38 Morris we had to pull the mold out of the back 40.
> 
> ...


youre not the only one convinced...some very old salts told me the same thing when I started cruising...there is no benefit other than the perceived safety of going big.

some one coined in the 90s or maybe 80s *buy the biggest boat you can afford*

whowever did screwed up many a new cruisers intention or dreams...that is MY BELEIF

obviously not shared by all

personally I think if I ever had the $$ to go new and custom a 40ft aluminum cruiser that could do high lat cruising as well as trade sailing would be PRIMO in my book


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Christian,

You ARE smoking good stuff. The really nice brands will not be that cheap, unless we are talking in the 40' and under range. Bigger nicer swans, oysters etc hang on to there value pretty well. I've seen a few CS42 Swans in the mid 300 range, base was 500K iirc. 

Jeanneau has a nice 34' with a base of 125. Hanse equal is 150, a bit more for dehler. Do not know about some of the other what I would call Chevy to Cadillac production versions. Including Hunter, Beneteau, Bavaria etc. 

Marty


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

blt2ski said:


> Christian,
> 
> You ARE smoking good stuff. The really nice brands will not be that cheap, unless we are talking in the 40' and under range. Bigger nicer swans, oysters etc hang on to there value pretty well. I've seen a few CS42 Swans in the mid 300 range, base was 500K iirc.
> 
> ...


MARTY I am talking about sub 40ft boats like the op is...


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

OP

so would something like this be considered mid to low range today?

Yacht Charter Hanse 400 Danae - Sailing Yacht in Kalamaki (Athens) - Greece

a hanse 400

here is a top 5 poll on boats

we forgot caliber, some of them are real nice

http://www.yachtworld.com/boat-content/2012/08/5-top-affordable-bluewater-cruising-sailboats/


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## hellsop (Jun 3, 2014)

SailingJackson said:


> I'm looking for suggestions on the move to a high quality boat. Here's the criteria:
> 
> Right now I have a Catalina 36 which is exceptionally well outfitted for single handed coastal or Great Lakes sailing. Full suite electronics, bow thruster, new sails, cruising chute, etc. I do not want a bigger boat because I very often sail alone. I know I can handle a 45' boat single handed out of the harbor, but docking single handed in a 25 knot cross wind would be out of the question with a large boat. I have no problems with the 36' boat under any conditions.
> 
> ...


If you're willing to try something a little different, Catalina is building the Gemini Legacy 35 now.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Last one,

Blue Jacket 40

Blue Jacket 40 (BJ40) Performance Sailing Yacht | BlueJacketYachts.com

Barry


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## SailingJackson (Jan 1, 2011)

christian.hess said:


> OP
> 
> so would something like this be considered mid to low range today?
> 
> ...


I always thought of Caliber as blue water, but I suppose it would work fine for coastal sailing. I think the 40 is too big for me to single hand easily under all conditions, but the 35 might work. Caliber is certainly built well, but probably very slow next to a Tartan 3700.

I've looked at Hanse again. That harsh euro interior just seems unpleasant to me. The warm wood and rounded corners on the interiors of more classic yachts makes for a safe feeling when you're at anchor and it starts rocking as a storm front passes over at 3:00 AM. There's nothing warm and cozy with all that plastic and sharp corners.


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## SailingJackson (Jan 1, 2011)

BarryL said:


> Last one,
> 
> Blue Jacket 40
> 
> ...


I spent some time on one at a boat show when they first came out. I don't remember what it was that I didn't like about it, but I didn't think it was constructed as well as Tartan or Island Packet. I might think about it more seriously if I could find the two cabin layout. Their standard 3 cabin seems crazy, like the 40' boats that have 2 heads.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Locally there are some swans in the low 40' range, from the 70's no less, 175-250K depending upon upkeep/grades on them. Can not see spending that amount, when I can get a Jeanneau 36i as some friends of mine closed on friday for about 140K that is around 5 yrs old. Yeah, a lot of folks do not like the wood useage. BUT in the European builders defense, may of the materials like Teak, are not a dime a dozen to get any more, so they are using other techniques to stretch the board foot of material, be it laminate, or in the new Jeanneau and Beneteau, where they take slivers, line it up side by side to get a few more face footage vs solid or laminate/plywood to make things. Be this good or bad mind you........Also the reason


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

SailingJackson said:


> I always thought of Caliber as blue water, but I suppose it would work fine for coastal sailing. I think the 40 is too big for me to single hand easily under all conditions, but the 35 might work. Caliber is certainly built well, but probably very slow next to a Tartan 3700.
> 
> I've looked at Hanse again. That harsh euro interior just seems unpleasant to me. The warm wood and rounded corners on the interiors of more classic yachts makes for a safe feeling when you're at anchor and it starts rocking as a storm front passes over at 3:00 AM. There's nothing warm and cozy with all that plastic and sharp corners.


true its different, gets taking used to

people used to say that about the contessas(mostly the 26 and 32) made in england or canada when compared to the open, bright airy california boats...

beleive me Im all about safe, wood and rounded un office like looking interiors in fact Im a big fan of classic looking boats inside and out but modern underwater hulls..

not drastically modern but modern and sleek enough to perform well

anywhoo


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Don't rule out a Norseman 400. Very, very sweet boats. Also Passport & the Saga 38.. I have a customer with a Saga 38 and she is fast and well put together... The later Sabre's are beautiful... Don't be afraid to go to 40' +/-....


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## SailingJackson (Jan 1, 2011)

*Maybe I'm too old, or not tough enough*



Maine Sail said:


> Don't rule out a Norseman 400. Very, very sweet boats. Also Passport & the Saga 38.. I have a customer with a Saga 38 and she is fast and well put together... The later Sabre's are beautiful... Don't be afraid to go to 40' +/-....


I'm fascinated looking at the 40'or near to 40' boats. Norseman 400, smaller Swans, Caliber LRC40, all very nice. I just think they might be too big for me.

One of the criteria at hand is the ability to sail solo in most conditions. With my 36' boat, at around 15,000 lbs I've found two pretty specific conditions that I often encounter. These are some limitations I have.

1) Docking the boat solo with a 15 to 20 knot cross wind. I added a bow thruster and that has helped a lot, but I'm still often at a limit on docking.

2) Managing the asymmetrical sail. Not too bad with the sock, but I've had the wind come up on me at times and I've felt I was right at the limit of my strength to get it down. I just don't know how the guys on Open 60's do what they do. They are amazing, but I'm not one of 'em.

I think I should limit myself to 16,000 displacement, or near to that. Many of the boats suggested are 19,000 and I just don't know how I would dock a boat like that solo and not end up playing bumper boats with some very pissed off neighbors.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

my islander is 14,500 so same same...I too agree that some situations can be a handful however the masts on these boats arent that tall really only a real genoa and heavy at that would I consider a bit of a handful

roller furling eliminates most of this trouble

if you have the $$ why not get a furling flexible asymetric?

a newer boat will also be lighter than older ones so a new 40ft might just be at that 16k or so limit you speak of

remember 40 is the new 30 regarding boat length these days...kind of on the lower spectrum lengthwise


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Look for some of the rigs, ie mostly european mind you, that have fractional rigs. Changing out jibs is not needed, only can you furl a main.

Then get a small sprit with a top down furler for the a-sail, that is how the O60 SH/DH folks do it, Even in the smaller open6.5 class, ie mid 20's racing across the ocean, a lot of furlers used for the spins. 

marty


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## SailingJackson (Jan 1, 2011)

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. With the research I've done I have pretty much altered directions. I've always known that, with the right rigging, I could handle just about any size boat solo, but I was more concerned about docking.

In a lot of discussion here and with brokers I've found a universal point of view on the docking issue. Most everyone tells me that the bigger/deeper/heavier a boat is the easier it is to dock. I was trying to keep under 39, but now I'm thinking of 42 to 44 foot boats. Current front runners include a new Catalina 445, a used Sabre 426, or a used Tartan 4400.

I had expected to like the Blue Jacket, but during a visit to the factory in Florida I was surprised how small the aft cabin was. I don't always sail solo and it's nice to have a place for guests.

GTJ


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## Silversailor (Jul 13, 2000)

The Hanse 385 (or it's predecessors, the Hanse 375 or 370) satisfy your criteria. I sail a 2006 Hanse 370e, purchased new. It's a modern cruiser with a turn of speed, well constructed. A good alternative is the new Dehler 38. Excellent construction and a little more speed. If budget is not a limitation, I would choose the Dehler 38.


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## SailingJackson (Jan 1, 2011)

asilverman said:


> The Hanse 385 (or it's predecessors, the Hanse 375 or 370) satisfy your criteria. I sail a 2006 Hanse 370e, purchased new. It's a modern cruiser with a turn of speed, well constructed. A good alternative is the new Dehler 38. Excellent construction and a little more speed. If budget is not a limitation, I would choose the Dehler 38.


I'm glad to hear that Hanse is serving you well. Certainly they please a lot of people. Never the less, in terms of quality of build I'm probably thinking along the same lines as the consensus seen in this discussion: Hanse - where do they sit on the quality scale?

I just came back from the Chicago boat show and was not too impressed by much of anything. My next investigation is looking toward late model Sabre or Tartan and consider them in contrast to Little Harbor, Hallberg Rassy, and XYachts. Someone caught my attention with a late model Najad which also looks interesting.

GJ


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

There's a Najad (CC 37?) down the dock from us.. very nice, must be in the Malo camp on many levels.. only maybe faster??


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