# Price for new diesel engines



## jr438234606 (Apr 25, 2006)

I'm in the market for a new diesel engine. I'm trying to locate a dealer for a Yanmar 4JH4, (54 HP I think) or something about the same size from another mfr. I would consider something from Westerbeke or Volvo also.

I know there are some here who have repowered. What kind of prices did you find? And, who was the dealer? I was recently quoted $10,500 for the Yanmar 4JH4. (That's without installation obviously). Is there a consensus on the reputations of the mfrs I mentioned?

By the way, this is replacing a Perkins 4.108 50HP on a 44', 28,000lb sailboat.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Beta Marine make a good unit, Kubota based.

Volvo? Not for me. Astronomical spare parts prices once the motor gets older, and 20 years is "old" for them, apparently. Don't learn that the way I, and others have. In 1997, for a 20 year-old Volvo MD17C, Volvo wanted £1300 (about $2400) for the exhaust manifold, alone. Just the manifold. 

That was 10 years ago, and those are the prices quoted 10 years ago.

That is not an experience I would wish you to repeat.

The Kubota motor is also used for other applications... fork lifts, and so on. This is a good sign when you go looking for parts.

I have no hidden interest in Kubota.

Rockter.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I have a Yanmar 4JHE and am very happy with it. It is a bit undersized for my boat though. If I were repowering I would definitely go with Yanmar. I once got a quote for a similar Westerbeke and it also was $10k plus installation.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Someone said once that Volvo made a great diesel right up until you had to buy a spare part, and then you got an insight into the true cost of Swedish unionized labour.

At 44 feet and nearly 15 tons, you've got a pretty heavy boat. Complications like a lightweight engine or turbo would be wasted on it: you want torque, reliability and are probably indifferent to whether the engine is 600 or 900 lbs. I imagine your prop is at least 18 inches, and possibly 20.

Consequently, you might want to look at a more "tractor"-like engine, like a Kubota or a Beta, something with good access and parts you don't have to order through a "marine dealer" but from a farm machinery supplier or an auto-parts place.

You may also wish to consider the dimensions aspect: Will you have to glass in a new stern tube to accommodate a different transmission angle to the coupler? Will you have to make new engine beds? Will your favoured engine be too tall or wide for its compartment?

In my experience, these follow-on modifications can cost as much or more than the new diesel. Anticipate a few hours looking at engine drawings and measuring odd spots on your boat.

Is the Perkins completely dead? I might consider a rebuild if it wasn't, because it's got a huge user base and parts are still easily found. I might even consider putting in someone else's rebuilt Perkins if the provenance was good. I have a Westerbeke W-52, essentially a Mazda pickup diesel engine, that I'm rebuilding to avoid a lot of the hassle of repositioning everything the engine touches.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Yes, don't put a turbo in there.


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## Fareast (Nov 15, 2006)

I have a 40 foot ketch, 27K lbs, 30K lbs when loaded... I put in a new Westerbeke 64 HP diesel, after a couple of upgrades on a 190 amp alternator and a few other things it was just shy of $13K. I like it because it turns slower than most at 2600 RPM, you will probably need a 20" prop. We purchased it in the fall of 2005, it has about 60hrs and has been excellent for us.

Mike & Paula
S/V Tivoli


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## Pamlicotraveler (Aug 13, 2006)

I have a 4Jhte with almost 7,000 hours - Running strong and I'm not planning on repowering unless it croaks.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

I would compare the Yanmar offerings to the Betamarine (marinized Kubota) line. They offer non-turbo 60 and 75 hp engines:

Beta Marine US Ltd. Distributors for Kubota based marine diesel engines and generators for sailboats, yachts and trawler boats.


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## jr438234606 (Apr 25, 2006)

Valiente said:


> Is the Perkins completely dead?


Thanks for all the feedback so far.

It will turn over, barely. I can hear a squealing sound, even now that I've refilled it with oil. I'm thinking that one or more bearings are completely shot. The engine is a patchwork quilt... numerous owners, suspect wiring, aging components (approaching 30 years), and now my own contribution: running it without oil. So, as far as I am concerned, yes, it is completely dead. It would have to be COMPLETELY rebuilt to have my trust. I don't want to throw good money after bad, so I've made the decision to repower with a brand new engine.

I am hoping to find an engine that has a similar footprint. I was told that Yanmar was considered a good replacement for the 4.108. I would hoping to NOT have to rework the stern tube. Motor mounts are inevitable.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Then I think you should haul out the old one and take down EVERY measurement from it that you want to approximate. The Perkins 4.108 is so common that I wouldn't be surprised if Beta/Kubota or another manufacturer hadn't made a new diesel in the 50-66 HP range that is practically a drop-in for it. Obviously, your main concern are the mounts and the width of the sump, and of course the position of the coupler. Figure out if you can stand more height or more width of the block between the mounts if the other measurements are good.

Newer diesels, thanks to common rail injectors and other little tweaks, are more efficient than old ones, but for a boat like yours I'd favour what was mentioned above: big, slow-turning and "steady".


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## Gramp34 (Oct 5, 2006)

jr438234606 said:


> It would have to be COMPLETELY rebuilt to have my trust. I don't want to throw good money after bad, so I've made the decision to repower with a brand new engine.


Look for a remanufactured Perkins 4-108. The remanufacturing process gives you functionally a new engine (some pictures of remanufacturing here) It's standard operating procedure for industrial engines. Perkins themselves offers reman engines through their Perkins Power Exchange, although that seems to be just in the UK.

You would buy the reman engine and pay a core charge. The engine arrives and you swap the manifolds, starter, alternator, transmission, etc from the old engine to the new. When you send the old engine back they refund your core charge.

It'll probably be 1/2-2/3rds the price of a new engine, and you don't have to rework your boat to fit it.

Good luck,

Tim


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

Vetus has a drop in replacement for the 4.108 that is a Mitsubishi block that you will find the dimensions smaller both height and width.
pigslo


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

There you go...that Vetus is exactly what I was talking about, as long as you can get Mitsubishi spares instead of paying the Dutch! The remanufactured thing is a good option, also, because every diesel mechanic in the world has seen a Perkins and they are easy for owners to maintain.


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## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

jr438234606 said:


> .. I was recently quoted $10,500 for the Yanmar 4JH4.


That's a good price by European standards. I just installed that engine in the NL. It's also a good engine (I hope).

My advice is to also check what else you have to change, like the exhaust pipe and the propeller. The installed cost is very variable.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Vetus gave me a great price a few months back on I believe a 29 hp engine. At the time they quoted around $5700.00 I realize your looking for a bigger engine, but I thought the information be helpful.


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## jr438234606 (Apr 25, 2006)

Freesail99 said:


> but I thought the information be helpful.


Indeed. Thanks.


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## jr438234606 (Apr 25, 2006)

pigslo said:


> Vetus has a drop in replacement for the 4.108 that is a Mitsubishi block that you will find the dimensions smaller both height and width.
> pigslo


The motor mounts and shaft angles are exactly the same as my Perkins?


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## negrini (Apr 2, 2008)

I had a Volvo MD2040 for 5 trouble-free years, and they are Perkins indeed, just O&M to Volvo. Now I have Yanmar for 2 years so far, although a little noisier, seems robust and trouble-free as well.


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

vetus.com has the catalogue and pricing in pdf. The catalogue has detailed drawings with measurements.
pigslo


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Fareast...if I may take the conversation on a bit of a tangent...may I ask HOW you mounted a 190Amp alternator on that engine to avoid bearing wear? Pix would be great if you have them.


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## Fareast (Nov 15, 2006)

Camaraderie

We had the engine professionally installed, it originally came with a 50 amp from Westerbeke, however, we elected to go with the 190 dual output from Westerbeke instead of the 50. So I did not personally install it, however, I will take some pics of the installation this weekend. I know it cost me quite a bit more to purchase and install that particular alt? 

I take it from the tone of your question that I may have a problem? Westerbeke certainly did not indicate there would be a problem with that alternator and the 64A.. I would welcome any insight you may have. I do not want to have problems down the road.

Thanks

Mike & Paula
S/V Tivoli


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Fareast...I was considering installing an alt. as large as yours some years back and read something by Don Casey (the acknowledged guru!) that discouraged it, so I wrote him asking about it. Here is my question and his answer:

Hi Don...I've read your recommendations on sizing alternators to battery bank size. Is there any limit on how big an alternator you can put on an engine. I have heard that the 200Amp type alternators can stress the bearings. I have a 44hp older yanmar with 1000 amps of AGM house batteries so charge acceptance is not an issue. If I run them down to 50% that is a lot of charging with my current 100Amp alternator/smartreguator. Your input will be appreciated.

*Don's answer:*
 The problem is traction. It takes about 1 horsepower to crank 25 amps from an alternator, which puts you at about the limit at 100 amps for carrying this horsepower with a single belt (and the higher belt tension require for higher horsepower transmission is not doing your water pump any favors). The solution is dual pulleys, which logically makes a 200-amp alternator a possibility. A first blush, it seems like this shouldn't effect bearings since you have twice the load spread over twice the load capacity. However, that second pulley is out farther from the front engine bearing, so when you tension it, the additional leverage means it is applying a greater side load. Shorter bearing life is almost assured.

So the short answer is that bearing stress is a likely consequence of just hanging on a larger alternator. There are, however solutions. For example, if you can configure the drive pulley stack to be supported at the outboard end by a rigidly-mounted bearing assembly-called a pillow block-that would reduce the side loading on the engine bearing by half. Such a support assembly must be attached to the engine, not the boat.

At some level of desired charging capacity, a stand-alone generator becomes the most sensible choice.
****************

So Mike...that is why I asked about your install...to understand how another installer approached the problem. This is beginning to become a real issue as we move towards new batteries (Odyssey/Firefly) with extremely high charge acceptance possibilities, and big banks for electric engines. Alternator sizing is a limiting factor so when I hear of a 200ah installation...I'm interested in how it was accomplished!


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## Fareast (Nov 15, 2006)

camaraderie,

Roger that, and very valid points, and yes I also read and take much of what Don Casey says as gospel. I will certainly take some detailed pictures of how the install is made and what kind of bracing is involved. I will not be able to send until Monday. I hope this does not become an issue for me. I have 675 Amp hrs worth of batteries, maybe I did not really need somthing that large? I do know that it is a double pulley coming off the alternator. But without too much speculation I will get the pics and information and send it out Monday..

Thanks for your response.

Mike & Paula
S/V Tivoli


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