# hf radio modified marine or modified ham



## dancarol

I'm contemplating putting a hf radio on my catamaran. Choices seem to be between a marine SSB or a HF Ham radio. Ham radios can be modified for use on marine frequencies. Marine rigs can be modified for use on Ham frequencies. My problem is which way to go. Two major questions are (1) Can these radios be used to legally transmit outside their FCC approved frequencies (and if not legal, do many people do it anyway); and (2) how practical is it to use a modified marine radio on ham freqs (convenience, etc) and how practical is it to use a modified ham radio on marine freqs? In terms of cost, it seems less expensive to modify a ham radio such as an Icom 418 than to modify a marine radio. Any guidance would be appreciated. TIA, Dan


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## frankdrebin

Duck Tape and Bailing wire. Works every time.

Or you could use the proper tools for the job at hand. 

Forget it. Grab an old CB, and a 1500W linear and talk on all freqs. simultaneously.


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## N0NJY

dancarol said:


> I'm contemplating putting a hf radio on my catamaran. Choices seem to be between a marine SSB or a HF Ham radio. Ham radios can be modified for use on marine frequencies. Marine rigs can be modified for use on Ham frequencies. My problem is which way to go. Two major questions are (1) Can these radios be used to legally transmit outside their FCC approved frequencies (and if not legal, do many people do it anyway); and (2) how practical is it to use a modified marine radio on ham freqs (convenience, etc) and how practical is it to use a modified ham radio on marine freqs? In terms of cost, it seems less expensive to modify a ham radio such as an Icom 418 than to modify a marine radio. Any guidance would be appreciated. TIA, Dan


Since this IS my field and I AM an expert on this..  I'll state that a "modified ham radio rig" is legal to use in ham bands only.

It it not legal for amateurs or anyone else to modify radios to operate in "out of band" operation.

That does not mean you can't purchase radios that can operate in all bands though. You can.

I have a radio that CAN operate in both marine bands (actually it can pretty much transmit in any band) but it is ONLY operated in Amateur bands as that is what it was designed to do.

There's a little thing called "FCC Type acceptance".

Amateur radio gear is NOT(necessarily) FCC type accepted. Nearly all other equipment is. (Again, some ham radios are type accepted).

What this means is they meet certain specifications to prevent interference to other radio services.

If I'm not mistaken, you can find a few radios from several large manufacturers that will cover, legally, both the amateur bands and the marine frequencies you require.

Personally, I'd do a bit more research on the radio gear.

Lastly - you need to decide what you need to use the radio for. If you are a ham, you need to have an Amateur Radio Operators license. If you are going to use Marine, you need a restricted operators license (no test, just a fee) and a ships radio station license (fee, no test). Ham radio requires you have at minimum a General class license (not a HARD test, but not EASY either).

(For the record I hold a RR license, and I hold an Amateur Extra license. I've held a First Class Radio Telephone Operators license in the past - no longer issued these days, and Second Class and a Third Class. Also for the record I've been involved in using, setting up and training radio systems for nearly forty years now.)


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## N0NJY

Sorry one other thing I need to add here to make this easy....

If you have a radio that is capable of being used on Marine frequencies, it CAN be legally modified to work in HAM bands (if you're a ham radio operator).

Any radio can be legally modified by amateurs to work in the ham bands. But you can't modify a "ham only" to work in OTHER bands (legally).

Make sense?


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## N0NJY

Did a little quick research.

There is a radio that can do both things for you - it's a little expensive, at nearly $2000 bucks. The Icom M802, but it supposedly has other things you might want including some built in stuff for email. I didn't get a chance to read much on that radio, but you might want to look in that direction.

Rick


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## SVAuspicious

Kudos to Rick. When I read the initial post in this thread my first thought was "Oh no, not again." Rick said about everything I would and very well.

A couple thoughts:

Type acceptance is not universal; it is application specific. So a manufacturer might apply for type-acceptance on a radio for use on amateur frequencies. That doesn't make it acceptable for use in other services.

The Icom M802 is a good radio. It's a great marine SSB and a good ham radio. I'm thrilled with mine. The built-in e-mail stuff isn't particularly useful for most installations - if you want to do e-mail the near-universal setup is an SCS Pactor modem and Airmail on a laptop or other computer. With the 802/SCS/Airmail combination all frequency and mode control is by the laptop and the e-mail functionality built into the radio isn't necessary.

Finally, the type-acceptance requirement and other legal limitations are not Not NOT bureaucracy run amok. There are very good reasons to require radios used in a life-critical service like marine SSB to meet particular standards for frequency stability and signal purity that a fundamentally experimental service like ham radio simply need not meet.

sail fast, dave KO4MI
S/V Auspicious


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## N0NJY

Cool. Thanks for the verification. I did all that "off the top of me head"!

LOL

Yeah, I didn't go into extreme detail on the type acceptance. That's a US and Canadian thing. I'm not sure honestly how other countries do things.

For everyone else, radios built in other countries are indeed, 'type accepted' in the US by FCC standards. And as Dave pointed out, they are done this way to PREVENT interference to services outside the bands they are designed to operate in.

This comes down specifically to prevent harmful interference especially to life-saving services, but also to prevent most kinds of interference.

The problem with modifying a ham radio into another service comes from the fact that amateur gear - when commercially produced may well be within all standards, FOR the Ham Bands, but when you push the envelop, so to speak, you can cause spurious emissions. Those emissions can cause signals in other bands to be over-ridden by your radio signal which could place others in jeopardy.

But for Dan... there's inexpensive, there's cheap and there's frugal.

While it might seem "cheaper" to modify a ham rig (and then use it) on marine frequencies - it won't be IF you get caught doing so. If I remember rightly the rules state something about the fines being up to $10,000 dollars and jail time.

If you're a foreign operator (Say from Canada) you have to have a reciprocal operating license (not difficult to obtain, if you're licensed already in your country). 

I honestly don't know if the Coast Guard would check your license or not, but they don't actually have authority to fine you for not having one. The ONLY authority over US frequency allocation and usage is the Federal Communications Commission.

I know that the RCMP will confiscate radios that are "illegally modified" themselves, usually ham gear modified to hold commercial stuff. I don't know if they grab US radios for this, as I have several radios that are capable of holding many frequencies, and my main HT is capable of pretty much transmitting anywhere, not LEGALLY, but it can.

(That radio can, if necessary, broadcast on marine frequencies, but would not be used to do so except in emergencies. In the US ANY ONE and ANY RADIO system can be used to assist in emergencies where safety and preservation of life is a factor)


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## SEMIJim

N0NJY said:


> If I remember rightly the rules state something about the fines being up to $10,000 dollars and jail time.


Depends.

Caveat: It's been a long time since I let my Advanced Class license lapse, much less since I studied for it. It's been a long time since I studied for, and passed, my First Class Commercial License class and obtained my Second Class Commercial License, but, IIRC and things haven't changed:

A violation of your FCC license is US$500/day, per violation. N.B.: IIRC: Because of the way the Rules are written and because of your licensing terms, Violating the rules for any class of service is always a violation of any licenses you hold. Violating the terms of any FCC license(s) you hold reflects on all licenses you hold. All can be suspended or (perhaps permanently) revoked.

No license(s)? Well (and this always comes as a surprise to people): Then they can't fine you under the Rules. Pretty neat, eh? Nope, instead they get you for violating the Communications Act. (Well, it's the Telecommunications Act, now, but I'm an old timer.) That one is, or used to be, a penalty of up to US$10,000 and (or?) a year as a guest of Uncle Sam. It's probably a Pretty Safe Bet that getting nailed for violating this Act will preclude your ever obtaining an FCC license for any service.

Jim


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## xort

I have heard, no direct knowledge, that you can hear the difference in a ham radio TXing on a marine band...so detection can be fairly easy, altho I've never heard of anybody getting busted.


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## hellosailor

Dan, your best bet to stay 100% legal is to buy a radio like an older Icom 710 or a new 802(?) which is manufactured and approved for both services. It will have drawbacks, but so will anything else.

As long as your radio is legal for use in your home country, it will be legal around the world by reciprocal treaties via the ITU. (Of course, if you are visiting "Red" China you'll need a permit, because bringing in an unlicensed ham radio is quite literally an espionage conviction there.)

Marine HF radios are "channelized" so you can dial up a channel number. Ham radios use tuning dials/pads, because hams don't use numbered channels. A case can be made for having two radios--unless the new Icom gives you both options.

As xort mentions, it is rare for anyone to get busted for offshore use of anything--as long as there are no complaints. INshore...that's something else, since marine radios are much 'cleaner' than ham radios with regard to spurious emissions, and have a more limited audio range--so a good ear can quite literally tell what you are using by the sound of it, and the frequncy spatter.

I'm sure you'll find older threads on this subject here, if not on other web and ham forums. 

If you are not technically inclined, and don't want to invest in one of the dual-purposed ICOMs (I don't know if any other vendor makes similar radios), I'd suggest spending money on the marine HF, and then adding a lower cost used ham radio form a reputable source (i.e. one of the stores) to supplement it. That way you are fully legal, fully redundant (if you use two antennas) as well. And there are plenty of HF ham radios, used, at reasonable prices.


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## SVAuspicious

N0NJY said:


> ... detail on the type acceptance. That's a US and Canadian thing. I'm not sure honestly how other countries do things.


The EU has a similar set of standards. Australia does as well. Many small countries simply point to ITU standards and will simply bung you into jail and fine you without too much concern for that fact that their taxi-cabs, restaurants, and other businesses are using marine VHF as a party line; don't tick off the authorities and make them look too hard.

Like Rick, I have a number of radios that can operate out of band although I don't use them that way. For example, I have a radio that I can use on marine VHF, aircraft, Mutual Aid, and some other tactical frequencies. I DON'T, but I could. If Katrina had come up the Chesapeake I might well have been able to help (with full fuel tanks and another comms operator, I can operate for nearly a week on multiple bands until government and other civil defense folk can get in place -- local authorities know what I have and what they can count on me for). I'm a rule-bound fellow so I have documented procedures for the boat (check-list for guest operators, who may be a DNR comms guy). Frankly no one has ever asked for any of this stuff, but I have it. Many hams are part of emergency response teams and have similar equipment and procedures of varying degrees of formality.

Sorry about drifting off the OP topic. Many marine radios can be modified to legally operate on ham frequencies without impacting their use on marine frequencies. There are no ham radios that can be modified to legally operate on marine frequencies. There are good reasons for the requirements. Are you willing to risk the lives of fellow mariners? Choose carefully.


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## witzgall

*Could you explain?*

Hi;

I would like to know more about the statement below. I just passed my technicians test, and will hopefully take the general test in a month or so. I don't plan on transmitting only listening with my radio, a ts-480, on the marine bands, but out of country it may be something that is considered. What about the HAM radio makes it emit spurious emissions? Since most mobile ham radios are 100 watt max, I assume you mean that ham rigs that are using amplifiers may transmit further.

One other question - how do weather routers such as Herb broadcast from land legally, as I understand that it is not legal to transmit on marine frequencies from shore? Is there a special license for this?

Chris



hellosailor said:


> As xort mentions, it is rare for anyone to get busted for offshore use of anything--as long as there are no complaints. INshore...that's something else, since marine radios are much 'cleaner' than ham radios with regard to spurious emissions, and have a more limited audio range--so a good ear can quite literally tell what you are using by the sound of it, and the frequncy spatter.


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## Boasun

Remember the Marine radios that is being refered to are the SSB radios and not the VHF radios. 
The SSB can be set up with Ham & Marine bands the VHF cannot.


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## k1vsk

witzgall said:


> Hi;
> 
> I would like to know more about the statement below. I just passed my technicians test, and will hopefully take the general test in a month or so. I don't plan on transmitting only listening with my radio, a ts-480, on the marine bands, but out of country it may be something that is considered. What about the HAM radio makes it emit spurious emissions? Since most mobile ham radios are 100 watt max, I assume you mean that ham rigs that are using amplifiers may transmit further.
> 
> One other question - how do weather routers such as Herb broadcast from land legally, as I understand that it is not legal to transmit on marine frequencies from shore? Is there a special license for this?
> 
> Chris


Herb does have a Canadian license to operate from a shore station.
There is nothing unique to a ham radio which makes it emit spurious signals - all transmitters do to some degree. When operated within it's designed freq ranges, it's emissions are relatively pure and within the standards accepted for their use. So-called "type accepted" marine SSB radios are designed to different somewhat stricter standards. It has nothing to do with linear amplifiers and I find it hard to imagine anyone being able to hear the difference between marine and a ham transmitted signal. Seems like a huge exaggeration.


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## hellosailor

Witzgall-
What k1vsk said, mainly. Lots of folks have tin ears and think Am radio is just as good as fm radio is just as good as tapes or cds. Some of us can tell the difference--in the right setting. Add some background noise, like car road noise, and most people can't tell them apart any more.
Same thing with ham /vs/ marine HF radios, there are different specs for the audio and a good ear can tell them apart. And a ham radio may offer options for audio compression or bandwidth that a marine radio wouldn't.
Ham radios are generally "built to a price" because they are sold to hobbyists who don't need to buy them, who will make decisions based on price just like any mass market. Marine radios are required on commercial vessels--so they may also be built to a price, but the buyers are more concerned with performance, and a couple of hundred bucks is a flyspec on the build sheet for a commercial SHIP.

You can use marine radios legally from the shore, there are different licenses available besides the usual "ships station license". There is a variation for portable use (i.e. I have a license that is attached to *me* and not a vessel, so I can take it with me if I'm crewing or using someone else' boat) and another variation for yacht clubs and marinas, who operate a fixed shore station and sometimes a fleet license to cover their dinks, etc. as well.

To find out what is currently available (regs change) you can always explore the FCC's web site, which sometimes is hard to search, or call their licensing division and speak to a human being. And then of course, outside the US all the regs change again.


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## sailingdog

Be aware that to use a Marine SSB radio you need a Ship's Station License and a Restricted Radio Operator's License from the FCC. To use the Marine SSB on ham frequencies, you also need a Ham license.


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## N0NJY

xort said:


> I have heard, no direct knowledge, that you can hear the difference in a ham radio TXing on a marine band...so detection can be fairly easy, altho I've never heard of anybody getting busted.


People get "busted" all the time transmitting illegally on Amateur Radio Bands.

For the record, the FCC won't track you down unless you're causing harmful interference, but the Amateur Bands are the MOST policed bands of ALL.

Why? Because amateur jealously guard their frequencies against intruders (and rightly so) since over the years the bands have shrank over time, having many of them pulled out from under the hams.

In fact, I've participated in several "hunt down the offender" issues over the years and we can, within minutes usually locate someone transmitting on uhf/vhf bands. Takes a bit longer on HF, but it can be done.

I know a guy in town here that has a doppler ranging system and can find you in less than five minutes and pin point your EXACT latitude and longitude in that time.

As for the "getting you under the telecommunications act" - for the 10K that's probably accurate. However, the FCC will still fine you based on your actions if you cause HARMFUL interference (unless you're in an emergency).

About "hearing the difference", I'm not sure about that. I listen to both amateur and marine broadcasts all the time and I can't tell you what kind of rig someone is using without them mentioning it. Certain microphones can change voice and bandwidth characteristics, as can other types of equipment added to the radio.


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## Zers

Not meaning to revive the dead, but is there an Amateur Radio that transmits on all bands and receives every frequency? 

Thanks

Jeff


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## hellosailor

Jeff, anything that is commercially made and sold "as" a ham radio, is retricted to transmission on the amateur bands. A licensed ham is allowed to build or modify anything they please, which brings with it the responsibility to "control" your station and keep it within legal operation as the situation may be.

You'll find many of the ham transceivers can be "opened" to out-of-band use, but due to design considerations "dc to daylight" usually means a radio that is at best only a fair performer somewhere along the way. And then too, there's the matter of budget. Wider range with better performance usually means a bigger more expensive radio, too.


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## TSOJOURNER

...another HAM Extra here. The only question I feel need be asked/answered, aside from all the legal and license stuff, is - are all your crew able to yank that mic off a complicated HAM radio and begin transmitting on CH 16, or will they need to find the manual to find out how to turn it on, how to receive, how to transmit, what power settings, antenna switch, tuner settings, etc. 

Do yourself a favor - get a nice (small) HAM rig with a built-in tuner to light up your backstay, and get a nice VHF that stays tuned to big illuminated letters that show CH 16 and WX ALERT. All scenarios considered - this is no doubt your best bet.


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## TSOJOURNER

Zers said:


> Not meaning to revive the dead, but is there an Amateur Radio that transmits on all bands and receives every frequency?


ALL bands? ALL Freqs? What does this mean? Unless you have equal space (and a few BILLION $$$) as underneath the NSA Ft Meade - I don't think so.

Amateur bands - yes. However usually only one received transmission at a time will come out the audio driver, and only one at a time (3 KHz wide with respect to others) can be transmitted legally with some significant tuning and adjustment required for each freq - whether receive or transmit. BTW - a frequency measurement is infintessimal. (sp?) Good question for most though. Sorry I don't have the time to explain thoroughly.


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## bigcj39

I have a restricted operators license issued in 1962.anyone think this is still ok?


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## hellosailor

cj, was it issued as a lifetime license or for a fixed period? If you still physically have the license, check the term on it. then if there's any question, call the FCC's licensing division in Gettysburg, they usually solve things on the toll-free phone right away and for sure.


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## bigcj39

Thanks ill be calling them.


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## ffiill

Basically whole thing is a minefield-whats legal in US can be illegal here in UK;in international waters theoretically you are bound by the regulations of the country you are registered in.In theUS you can buy a restricted marine HF operators licence-in the UK you have to sit an exam-total cost about $500.
Icom SSBs US legal $1200 upwards-here in UK to comply with European leglislation abot $1500 minimum.
So over here Ham licence is far more appealing and you can pick up a good Ham radio for about $500.
If you want to spend your time chatting to Oil Tanker captains then get a marine HF radio;if you want to talk to other small boat sailers get a Ham Radio modified so in an emergency quite legally all be it with an illegal modification you can get help.


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## hellosailor

I'd hardly call it a minefield. Most of us are citizens of just one country (although some can play the dual or triple nationality game) and that gives us only one legal avenue for radio licensing. Ditto for the title/flag on the boat.

And then you operate under that one set of restrictions, which INCLUDE reciprocity agreements with other nations. And you follow those terms when operating in another sovereign's waters. When there's no reciprocity, you still follow that other sovereign's laws. For radios, pollution, contraband, and everything else.

No big deal, you just need to do your homework ahead of time.


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## ffiill

Well perhaps not a minefield BUT-
If you take the marine HF option here in the UK you licence the boat as a marine station-totally free and takes a few minutes online and open to any one from anywhere so long as you have a UK address-believe its the same in the US?-what you get is a call sign unique to your vessel.
To use the radio to transmit you then either need an internationally recognised long range operators certificate;or to be supervised by someone with one;or an internationally recognised full ham licence with permission of the vessels captain.
These regulations or any breach of them are applied by whichever country your vessels radio station is registered in.
As far as I am aware you can transmit on any internationally agreed channels so that includes marine and ham.
If you have a marine hf radio however new ones tend to be preprogrammed push button affairs set up for marine channels. You have to modify them to transmit on Ham channels-no problem other than if you happen to be a boat from Europe there are several Ham chanels popular with US sailors that are unlicenced over here so technically if you mod the radio to access these if heading across to the US /west Indies you are committing an offence under European leglislation.
Likewise several of the Marine Icoms popularly used in the US do not have DSC fitted-again illegal in Europe.BUT your radio details are not taken as part of licencing info.If you are a US boat operating in Europe no problem as leglislation only applies to European vessels.
Which nicely brings me to Ham radios.
It is illegal under international agreed and locally applied leglislation to modify a Ham radio to transmit on all chanels IF you are a land based Ham operator. However if you are operating from a Marine station-on your boat-as far as I can gather with a full Ham licence or Marine long range operators licence or under the supervision of long range operator you can transmit on marine chanels so the offence becomes somewhat vague in my opinion..
Last but not least in the event of a real emergency international agreement allows anyone by any means to summon help without threat of being prosecuted for an offence.
Confusing or what! 
As for cost both here and in the US Ham training takes you through 3 stages to full licence and costs very little. Certainly in the UK and I would guess in the US Long Range marine operators certificates tend to be run by nautical colleges and are aimed at training comercial operators.As such over here they can cost around about £1000/$1500


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## hellosailor

"It is illegal under international agreed and locally applied leglislation to modify a Ham radio to transmit on all chanels IF"
IN the US, under ITU and FCC regulation, no.
A ham radio may not be commercially sold unless it meet type acceptance, and does not transmit out of the ham bands, but that regulation applies to manufacturers and dealers, NOT HAM LICENSEES. A ham radio licensee in the US is personally and completely responsible for the legal operation of their radio(s) and allowed to make any and all modifcaitons that they please, including building equipment of ay type from scratch.
If you doubt that, contact our FCC, there's no debate.

As a ham radio operator you are also allowed broad liberty with "emergency operation". And for that reason I have _legally _modified my ham VHF radio so that it is capable of operating in the marine VHF bands and other frequencies, so that if I have to abandon ship and the normal marine VHF is lost or non-functional, I can legally use the ham radio, on marine band, to place a perfectly legal distress call.
Such operation is in fact encouraged by our regulations, the amateur radio service is allowed to occupy valuable airspace for several reasons and public service / emergency operations is probably at the top of the list these days.

Your rules in the UK probably will vary, but in the US this is legal and proper. By federal regulation, for emergency operation, pretty much anything goes if it will accomplish the goal of saving lives and property. WIthout causing excess mayhem, obviously.


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## SimonV

The Icom 802 originally came as a Marine SSB/MF/HF set only, and if you wanted the ham frequencies you had to send the set back to a tech to have the Easter egg removed (at a cost) on the production of your Ham licence. This has now changed and the Easter egg has been discontinued. I think mainly as the large number of units being sent back for the modification and the increased use of sailmail using a greater number of frequencies.


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## oceanscapt

Some rigs are legal on both marine and ham bands (SGC comes to mind) so getting it modified for ham transmit freqs isn't a problem - legally or operationally.

Many ham rigs can be modified for marine use but you'll need to check to make sure. In some cases it's simply lifting a jumper wire, others require cutting a diode, and some require reprogramming. The important thing is to make sure that the radio your choice can transmit on ham frequencies. Most marine and ham radios are general coverage receivers.

I know of no one who's been visited by the FCC for the expressed purpose of verifying that the SSB is not modified. In most cases, the modified radio will sound the same as the type accepted. Manufacturers like ICOM, Yaesu, or Kenwood produce radios for most frequencies.

I carried a modifed ICOM 751A for a number of years and had no reported problems of audio quality, frequency stability, or other discernible features.


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## ffiill

Some very interesting and well informed responses and I stand corrected.
This is something quite new to me-long range HF tranceivers.
Short range VHF I am very familiar with.
What really interests me however is what appears to be a misguided believe by many land based ham amateurs that modifying or at least using a modified radio to transmit on Marine Chanels is illegal not only when on land but even when at sea..This issue is often discussed on Ham sites both sides of the Atlantic.
There also appears to be here in the UK an impression created that using radios with such mods is illegal and certainly not acceptable.
Take a look at this UK based site
YachtCom - Marine Radio | Marine SSB MF HF VHF | Radio Licence | Marine Weather Bulletins | SSB email | Coastguards frequencies
I however do suspect that this site is sponsored by Icom.
Moding radios can be quite easy-many of the Yaesu tranceivers for example.
The early FT 757 has a wired in slide switch with later models having jumper leads;FT840s require no more than accessing part of the chanel programming.
However it appears to me that Icom make it difficult? because they would prefer you to use their more expensive dedicated marine tranceivers?
Having said all of this I cannot really imagine the US licencing authority or in my case the UK licencing authority Offcom dropping a member of their inspection team onto a yacht mid atlantic to see if you have the proper documentation!


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## hellosailor

Various national authorities have varying regulations about requiring modifications to be difficult, or at least, inconvenient, in some radio service types. So the prudent manufacturer these days does not provide any obvious means of modifying a radio. The mods may be as simple as cutting a wire, removing a diode, or entering a "secret" program code, but they will be unapparent to the casual user, in order to meet regulations.

Since most radio equipment is sold to a global market these days and the same basic equipment must meet "all" regulations, changes in configuration are usually provided for, at some level. But not at an obvious one.

With regard to inspection teams, most governments do not waste time and money inspecting radios in any detail, unless complaints have been filed. Using a radio out of band may cause problems and get complaints filed, it has to be done with eyes open. And then there are countries like China, where simply entering the country with a radio transmitter that has not been licensed by the Chinese government, will get you arrested for espionage.

Knowing the rules can be important.


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## denverd0n

ffiill said:


> What really interests me however is what appears to be a misguided believe by many land based ham amateurs that modifying or at least using a modified radio to transmit on Marine Chanels is illegal not only when on land but even when at sea.


This may be "misguided" in the UK, but I can assure you that it is not for U.S. based hams. Anyone who is operating under the jurisdiction of the U.S. FCC is prohibited from using a non-type-certified radio (which would include modified ham radios) on marine channels except in an emergency.

Of course, there are American hams who make statements about this without qualifying them, and thereby implying that U.S. laws apply to everyone. Obviously that is not the case. One of the things about the internet, and forums like this, is that there are no borders, and you need to be conscious of who is telling you something and what their perspective is.

Bottom line, for hams operating under U.S. rules, it is illegal to use a modified ham radio on marine channels except in case of an emergency.


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## ffiill

So you are on a vessel licenced by your home country and with a marine call sign and you have a full ham licence and or a marine long range operators certificate.If you are using a modern radio with theoretical capability of generating a signal on any frequency unlike older xtal crystal controled radios what is the difference between using a ham radio or marine dedicated hf radio on marine frequencies? True you can tweak the frequency but equally you can store /programme in totally exact frequencies as on a marine preprogrammed hf radio.
As an aside for those who wonder what use the aeronautical HF has in this day and age of satellite communications I was recently talking to a long haul British Airways jumbo jet pilot who told me that particularly over Africa;Siberia ;the poles;transpacific etc that this remains their main means of communication with air traffic control etc which they have to tweak the same way as any of us amateurs!


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## hellosailor

"what is the difference between using a ham radio or marine dedicated hf radio on marine frequencies?"
It isn't just frequencies. Marine HF radios typically are required to have lower levels of spurious emissions than ham radios, and they are "channelized" as opposed to the continuous tuning in ham radios. The differences are technical are just because the radios can use the same frequencies, does not mean they use them in the same way or with the same signal characteristics. Don't expect the bandwidths that are used, or allowed, to be the same either. 

Yes, there are some ham radios that can meet or beat the marine specifications. There are many radios in this world and the regulations are there to ensure the one you use, won't interfere with other services or users. If you know enough about engineering to appreciate all the differences, you can probably break the rules without worrying. If you have to ask what the differences are--what "bandwidth" or "spurious emissions" means--you'd better stick to legally approved radios.


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## sck5

I have an ICOM 802 and it is great. I have used it on marine channels, ham channels and for email with a pactor.

When I was shopping around for radios I was told that the main reason ssb's have to be "type accepted" (i.e. each radio model has to be tested and approved for marine use by the FCC) is that there is far less signal splatter outside of the channels than on many ham radios. Yes, some ham radios can do as well or even better but they arent "type accepted" because it would cost the manufacturer too much to jump through the hoops for what is really a quite small market. So, the marine ssb market is dominated by the few manufacturers and the few models within each that have targeted the marine market. You can either spring for a new one of these or you can look for used ones which are far cheaper and can be found fairly easily.


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## btrayfors

In addition to "type acceptance", there are real differences between ham radios and marine radios. The differences are not just in type acceptance, spectral purity (reduced "splatter"), and cost. Anyone who tells you different is either trying to make the case for spending less money, or they simply don't know what they're talking about.

Some of these differences include:

1. ability to operate effectively at *lower input voltages* (as often is the case on a sailboat with partially depleted batteries), without either severe FM-ing (distortion) or simply cutting out (as some ham radios do);

2. *ease of operation*....fewer controls, channelized operation, etc. This makes it far easier for a non-radio person to operate the radio in an emergency; and

3. marine radios tend to have *superb audio quality*, both on receive and on transmit. Typically, they easily surpass many/most ham rigs in this department.

Coupled with their spectral purity and frequency stability, this package of "features" makes most marine radios come in a cut above most ham radios for SSB operation on the marine bands.

However, they are typically less well suited for ham operation, because they :

1. *have less frequency agility* (yes, even the Icom M-802 isn't as easy to use on the ham bands);

2. *lack many of the controls and features* hams like to have (RF gain, CW keyers built-in, dual VFOs, notch filters, etc., etc.).

I sell and install both marine and ham radios on boats and have some 25 HF radios in stock at the moment...ham radios, marine radios, military radios, land mobile radios, aircraft radios. Many of these are connected and are operational during the workday...listening on ham, marine, aircraft HF frequencies. By the way, HF/SSB radio is not just the principal means of communication between ground controllers and long-distance aircraft in Africa as was mentioned above, but WORLDWIDE. Still.

I have two favorite radios which I operate daily on various ham and marine nets: a Kenwood TKM-707 marine SSB and a Yaesu FT-920 ham radio. The TKM-707 is a very, very simple radio....or so it would appear from the very few controls. But, it is a very sophisticated radio, with excellent performance. Alongside it is the FT-920 -- a very complicated radio. There are almost 80 knobs and buttons on the front panel, compared to 14 on the TKM-707, plus a keypad behind a little door.

They're both great radios. Both are technically capable of operating on the ham bands and the marine bands. Only one can be legally operated on the marine bands (the marine type-accepted TKM-707), provided you have the necessary marine station and operator licenses.

Both can be legally operated on the ham bands, provided you have a ham license.

As the previous post indicated, there's often not much difference in cost between ham and marine radios, particularly used ones. I have used ham and marine radios beginning at under $500. In any event, the difference in cost between marine and ham radios is a very small portion of the total cost of installation, counting the antenna tuner, the antenna system, the ground system, and the materials and labor for a proper installation aboard ship.

One strategy, which I use on my boat, is to install BOTH a ham rig and a marine rig. That way, you can have the best of all possible worlds, and be perfectly legal. And, if you choose quality used radios, you can do it for the cost of a single new marine SSB.

Here's a pic of my boat, with a Yaesu FT-900CAT ham radio on the left and a Yaesu System 600 marine radio on the right (the one with very few knobs). And, further to the right is a PTC-IIe SCS Pactor modem which will work with either radio. NavStn_0140

Bill


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## SparkyToo

Some points not well covered so far:

The important difference between Marine and Ham radios?

All radios have banks of output filters to remove distortion products: A Ham radio has filters for the ham bands and marine radios have filters for the marine bands. If you use a ham radio on the marine bands, it is likely to cause interference due to the essential band-filters being missing. 

Do the radios have audible differences? 
Most definitely. Marine radios are designed for high audio quality: They have relative wide IF filters and low audio compression. Ham radios are designed for working DX. They usually have narrower filters and fairly aggressive audio processing.

The big difference however is that Marine radios do not have fine tune on their Transmit frequencies. The station which come up slightly off-frequency, then corrects their tuning on the next over is a dead giveaway. Even more so is one which needs to be re-tuned each over. These (and other) differences are obvious to a professional operator.

BTW, while it is legal to use any radio in an emergency, this does not excuse you for owning an unlicensed radio. If you say "I'd only use it in an emergency" you have just admitted to an offence. This particularly covers having unlicensed channels fitted.


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## btrayfors

Sparky Too,

Good points on the filtering, audio quality, and fixed transmit frequencies in marine radios vs. ham radios. Yes, there really IS a difference.



SparkyToo said:


> ......
> 
> BTW, while it is legal to use any radio in an emergency, this does not excuse you for owning an unlicensed radio. If you say "I'd only use it in an emergency" you have just admitted to an offence. This particularly covers having unlicensed channels fitted.


I don't get your point here, and suspect you may be in the UK or Australia or somewhere it's necessary to license a radio. This is NOT true in the U.S. Anyone can own a radio....no license required....just as anyone can own an airplane or a car. But to *transmit* on that radio (or fly that airplane or drive that car) without the proper license(s) is what will get you into trouble.

Bill


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## SparkyToo

Mostly it's not illegal to own an unlicensed radio, but to have it installed and ready to go is a whole different story. It's the "intent to use" which matters. But as you said Bill, it depends on the country.

Another point is the environmental standards. Part of the Acceptance Testing is a battery of environmental tests: Everything from extremes of Temperature, Vibration, Dust, Humidity, Corrosion, Water jets, Over-Voltage, Under-Voltage, High SWR, Lightning Strikes, ESD, Physical impact, etc. None of these apply to ham gear.

While a Marine radio should survive a decade or so at sea in a wet boat, the typical ham set will be a mass of corrosion internally after a year or so.

The higher price of marine gear is largely due to the higher standard of physical and electrical construction.


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## ffiill

Vertex (Yaesu Standard Horizon) VX 1700 which costs about £uk 600.
Can do it all push button or tuning knob but powers that be are very touchy about it world wide.
Often the case that you cannot buy it in your own State(US) or only in your own state or outwith US from other countries.
If you live in New England you have a local state only supplier;In other states you can only buy it for export to UK for example.
I can buy it in UK but it might be an illegal sale!
It is refered to as a "land based" mobile radio even if its advertising literature shows an offshore oil rig!
One other point as far as I am aware under International Law anyone can use any radio on any chanel in a true emergency situation.


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## SparkyToo

*Vertex VX 1700*

Why would the authorities be nervous about it? 
There are hundreds of "military style" radios around, both old and new.

It either has the approriate international approvals, or it doesn't. 
It clearly isn't a marine set.

Radios which are customer programmable are rarely given CE and/or FCC type approvals.


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## capecodda

*ICOM 802 (ham user interface)*

Good discussion here.

I have an 802. When making this choice, I lacked the following data, so I thought I'd mention it here for anyone else trying to decide. Can it to do continuous tuning? That is, can you put it in a mode where it isn't channelized for the marine bands, and you can turn the knob and scan continuously across the ham bands.

The answer is yes. I was concerned about this because a earlier "opened" ICOM SSB model (cannot remember which one), would not do this. It made it a pain as a ham set, perfectly good for marine SSB operation.

The other question is how do you "open" the radio. There is a a simple sequence of button presses that allows the user to do so. No need to return to factory. Of course, you should only do this if you are appropriately licensed.

Would you be better off with a dedicated ham radio and dedicated SSB? Yes if you can fit it in your boat. Is the 802 a reasonable to operate as a ham set and SSB? YMMV, but I find it to be, and believe it is technically legal for both modes, assuming you and your vessel are appropriately licensed.


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## hellosailor

" this does not excuse you for owning an unlicensed radio."
Sparky, forget about "mostly it's not illegal" but in the US, perhaps you could point out even ONE example of how or where it is illegal for anyone to own ANY radio, marine, aviation, police or even military, without any license or permit?
Outside of the US is quite another story, there are coutries like Red China where simple possession of a ham radio will get you jailed for espionage, even if you are a foreigner with a foreign license carrying it in with no intent to use it until you've left.

But here in the US? Just one example, please.

Proper emergency response, as taught by all of the organizations in the business including DHS and the military, begins with the formal "Planning" stage. And Planning begins with concepts like "OK, if we have this equipment and we modify it, we will be able to use it in emergencies." Yes, even the "illegal" modification can in fact be perfectly proper when it is done by the end-user (rather than a commercial seller) in anticipation of legal emergency use.
We (our goverment) have been very generous to ourselves when it comes to radiocommunications in the US.


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## hellosailor

ffiill-
"It is refered to as a "land based" mobile radio even if its advertising literature shows an offshore oil rig!"
If the oil rig is fixed to the sea floor on pylons, as opposed to being anchored, then it IS a land-based structure, isn't it? Just a "house on stilts" that happen to be rather tall?

There is no doubt some provision making it legal (like a land-based yacht club or marina having a "marine" base station) , or perhaps in offshore waters no authority is concerned with it, since it would not interfere with any "land" in their venue.


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## ffiill

You might be suprised how regs vary from country to country.
Here in UK for example it will cost you nothing to register your yacht as a marine mobile station.You just complete an online application and you get your call sign-a bit like US visas!
But if you want a marine long range operators certificate to allow you to operate a marine HF radio it will cost you a minimum of about £500uk.Similarly a short range(VHF)certificate will cost about £100.
UK Han licences and with them personal call signs operate almost the same as in US-3 stages to full licence-nominal cost.
But in UK you can only operate on your call sign offshore on a full licence and with permission of ships captain marine HF.
Also over here if you are a European registered boat your Marine HF tranceiver has to have DSC emergency calling facilty which makes the cheaper Icoms sold in US illegal in UK unless you are a US registered vessel!
Bottom line is you pay £1200 plus for an Icom Marine SSB tranceiver which has to be modded to use on Ham frequencies and further modded to use on some US Ham frequencies ilegal in UK.
OR you buy say a 1990s vintage Yaesu FT757 for under $500 on e bay open it up and either slide the slide switch to open it up to all channels/swop over jumper leads.Or with later models just do a bit of playing with the programming.
You can then with your Ham licence/call sign/vessels call sign talk on the various worldwide marine Ham nets quite legally etc and if if your boat decides to sink or you have a heart attack you can put out a Mayday on the International Marine Emergency Chanels and risk having someone boarding your boat mid pacific as its sinking to check out whether you have the right bits of paper!
If you want to be Kosher then dont mod and just get a PAYG Iridium sat phone.
Problem with these for anything else is they are great to talk to your nearest and dearest back home but no good if you want to talk to the yacht 300 miles in front of you on way to Marquesas if you dont know its phone number which is where HF comes in!


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## hellosailor

Ffill in some ways the UK is almost facist in the way it deals with radio communications. Here in the US we'd never tolerate government snooper vans going around to issue fines for unlicensed television sets. Hell, we can't even get the government to send out vans looking for criminal interference on the airwaves.

And as I recall it wasn't so long ago that London had a choice of four tv channels, all run by the government. 

What IS the broadcast tv situation there now, btw?


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## LakeSuperiorGeezer

*Vintage Yaesu FT-757 & Pactor Modem*



ffiill said:


> OR you buy say a 1990s vintage Yaesu FT757 for under $500 on e bay open it up and either slide the slide switch to open it up to all channels/swop over jumper leads.Or with later models just do a bit of playing with the programming.


I have a General Class in the USA for thirty years. I have not used it for several decades; however, I am thinking of get a transceiver and having another go at it. The Yaesu FT-757 was mentioned here and I was thinking of getting one. The specifications did say that a computer could control it. Does this mean it will work with a Pactor modem?


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## SparkyToo

A few notes:

Firstly there are a lot more classes of license than just Marine or Ham. Many organisations require highly capable radios with frequency agility. Some examples are Search and Rescue, Marine Coast Stations, Government Monitoring Stations, Military, International Passenger and Freight Vessels, etc. These groups are often licensed to use fancy radios such as top-end Collins gear, Harris, ITT, Vertex, etc. But because of this, they also require their operators to have First Class or Coast Guard radio certificates so the operators won't get into trouble.

The important thing is that you must have the right class of radio and the right operators certificate for your station. To argue that you can "own any radio" is just blindness. If your station has an non-approved or modified radio in service, you risk being prosecuted if something goes wrong. 

Just one example. The Radio Inspector is dragged out of bed by a panicky Emergency Operator who has some idiot interfering with an emergency channel. Perhaps lives have already been lost or put at risk. The inspector spends many late nights monitoring (and keeping his boss informed) and eventually determines that it is yacht so-and-so who is quietly travelling down the coast. Unfortunately some genius has picked an "unused" frequency to chat to his unlicensed "home base". What he doesn't realise is that he is on the input frequency of some duplex pair and is wiping out a critical channel. You can imagine the reception the boat gets when it finally sails into port. There will be quite a welcoming party with Customs, Police and FCC in attendance. 

Simple possession of a modified radio will then be essential evidence in the forthcoming trial. I have seen exactly this scenario occur on a number of occasions. It is amazing how these idiot's bluster disappears when they are faced with giving evidence in a coroner's enquiry. I could give a dozen quite different but related examples.

One other point: Marine stations (including oil rigs, etc) are frequently (and quite legitimately) fitted with land-based gear for their non-marine communications (talk to head office, supply ships, helicopters, etc). This of course is in addition to their standard Marine Radio equipment.


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## ffiill

LakeSuperiorGeezer said:


> I have a General Class in the USA for thirty years. I have not used it for several decades; however, I am thinking of get a transceiver and having another go at it. The Yaesu FT-757 was mentioned here and I was thinking of getting one. The specifications did say that a computer could control it. Does this mean it will work with a Pactor modem?


The 757 can be controlled using a cat cable to computer-however as I recall you cannot use a Pactor modem-however check out the latest software system RMS express which works with winlink.
http://www.winlink.org/
Check out downloads link.

No need for a pactor modem as it works via a sound card same way as you receive weather fax to an ssb receiver and into a visual form on your PC.
There is a load of info on this elsewhere on Sailnet.
All you will need is a data interface on cable to PC which you can buy or build kit form.
If you want a Pactor compatible Yaesu go for the FT840-no more than £300 uk on ebay-similar pricing on US ebay


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## LakeSuperiorGeezer

Maybe wishful thinking, but if a transceiver has a slide switch to open it up to all channels, does it meet FCC certification?


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## SparkyToo

> .... if a transceiver has a slide switch to open it up to all channels, does it meet FCC certification?

The short answer is "No". Any unauthorised modification voids the Certification.

It should be noted however that there are Marine Radios (e.g. Icom M802) whose channels can be "opened" with a simple key combination. They are legal for hams to use (on the ham bands), but strictly speaking, once re-programmed in this way, would no longer be Marine Certified. Presumably they would not have been submitted for Certification with this "hidden" mode enabled.


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## hellosailor

"e short answer is "No". Any unauthorised modification voids the Certification."

Sparky, perhaps you are forgetting that over the years the FCC has granted dual (and multiple) certification to a number of pieces of equipment, allowing them to be legally sold and used in ham plus marine plus other bands?

Icom's dual ham+marine rigs being among the best known, although there's usually something a little less obvious than a slide switch involved, it is often just a secret button sequence or jumper to change.


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## btrayfors

Re: the "slide-switch mod", I think the question refers specifically to the Yaesu FT-757GXII, which has such a switch. This is a ham radio, not a marine radio. As such, it can be modified in any way the user likes, including digging into the circuitry, when used on the ham bands by a duly licensed amateur radio operator.

In ham radio, it's the licensed ham who is responsible for ensuring that his emissions are "clean" and within the alloted spectrum space. Other hams help "police" this, and will not be hesitant at all to tell you if you have a bad signal or if you're operating out of band, splattering, etc.

FCC certification for ham radios isn't the same as for marine radios. It's just for the* import and/or sale* of commercially marketed equipment. What the user chooses to do with the radio after sale is up to him/her, since the responsibility for proper operation rests with the licensed operator who, by virtue of his/her licensure, is presumed to have enough knowledge and technical knowhow to ensure clean operation. Hams can and do build their own radios, both from kits and from scratch, using their own designs or those of others. This has always been and continues to be perfectly legal.

With similarity to the physician's credo, "first, do no harm" is the ham's credo: "first, cause no harmful interference".

Not so with marine radio, land-mobile, aircraft, military, etc. These radios can only be worked on by a technician with a commercial license (GROL or better), and cannot be modified in any way without voiding the certification.
*
Bottom line:* the Yaesu slide-switch in a ham radio was a good idea; too bad other ham radio designs didn't incorporate it. The result is the need to hunt for instructions, evaluate their origins, snip diodes, change dip switch settings, reboot the microprocessor and re-enter all stored contents, etc., etc., sometimes in circuits which are impossibly small to deal with, physically.

Why modify a ham radio? Several reasons: to access the new 60 meter channels (5 mHz); access the WARC bands (older ham radios didn't have these); access MARS and CAP frequencies; allow for operation in an extreme emergency on marine bands, etc., etc.

At least that's the theory. Practice, of course, differs depending on circumstances. YMMV 

Bill


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## SparkyToo

Hellosailer, 

As Bill pointed out, it's legal for Hams to modify their rigs. Not so for Marine operators. The Marine Certification for the M802 would certainly be voided by the act of "opening" the set.

Note that the Icom User Manual does not mention how to open the rig. It is not intended as a normal function. Clearly it would not have gained Marine Certification in this mode.

Note also that the M802 is NOT certified in Europe and doesn't have the CE approval.

To be legal as a Marine Radio in the "Open" mode, the set would need a higher level of certification (GMDSS/SOLAS) and the operator would need a General/First Class certificate.


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## ffiill

I do sometimes question what all the regulations are about worldwide.
The idiots of the world without registration or licencing are going to try to talk to fighter pilots or Jumbo jet pilots.
Its just that Icom seem to dominate the market place for marine hf despite the fact that it was probably a Yaesu hf radio that confirmed the sucessful raid on Pearl Harbour!
Sorry but I smell monopolistic practises.
Otherwise why did Yaesu in its early FT 757 make it so easy with a slide swtich to open up the radio? Or in later models jump leads and latterly a simple programme adjustment accessed through the programmimg sequences?
Was it hoping to have its ham radios authorised for marine use.
Likewise its Vertex open chanel tranceivers.
When here in the UK you have to pay 30% more for a marine legal Icom HF than in the US restrictive trading practises at least come to mind.


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## SparkyToo

> Its just that Icom seem to dominate the market place for marine hf despite the fact that it was probably a Yaesu hf radio that confirmed the sucessful raid on Pearl Harbour!

?????????????

You do realise that Icom is a Japanese company?


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## N0NJY

SparkyToo said:


> > Its just that Icom seem to dominate the market place for marine hf despite the fact that it was probably a Yaesu hf radio that confirmed the sucessful raid on Pearl Harbour!
> 
> ?????????????
> 
> You do realise that Icom is a Japanese company?


/chuckles


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## hellosailor

SparkyToo said:


> >
> You do realise that Icom is a Japanese company?


Only because the US was too shortsighted to take it as a war prize, like the Phillipines or Puerto Rico.


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## Triquetra

I have been looking at getting an HF rig for my boat also, and I have found that the amateurs tend to prefer the amateur rigs and likewise for the marine users for the marine rigs. I have an amateur radio license, but I am currently leaning towards the marine rigs. I found that the marine rigs tend to be smaller (like the amateur portable models), but are focused on having memories and features for the marine user who likes to just have access to particular channels. Amateurs like to surf the bands, so their radios have more features for doing that. Most newer marine radios can sync with your GPS for DSC and other marine features like e-mail, lower power consumption, ease of stowing, and top on my list, water resistance (though some HAM rigs have this too). 

As others mentioned you have to have licenses for using either of the HF band plans (marine and amateur). Getting access to an amateur (who likes to tinker with antennas) to help with your antenna to check the SWR and that you have a good ground plane would be beneficial, since on boats that is one of the major problems for getting good propagation (and every boat is different).

Good luck.

KA1PKL


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## N0NJY

There's a very simply answer to all of this.

Get a ham license to operate in the ham bands.

Get your HF license to operate on your boat in the marine frequencies.

(And you do this with your own country)

Then purchase a rig that is built for operations in both bands.

If you're trying to save money, then that's the best, cheapest and most legal way to do things. If you are in the US and break the laws they can, and will, fine you up to something like 10,000 US dollars for every breach of the law they find you have made.

By the way, in the US Hams CAN legally modify marine equipment to operate in the ham bands without any type acceptance or any of that stuff. In fact, hams can legally modify pretty much anything INTO the ham bands.

They can't modify it OUT of the ham bands.


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## TurbineMan

N0NJY said:


> There's a very simply answer to all of this.
> 
> Get a ham license to operate in the ham bands.
> 
> Get your HF license to operate on your boat in the marine frequencies.
> 
> (And you do this with your own country)
> 
> Then purchase a rig that is built for operations in both bands.
> 
> If you're trying to save money, then that's the best, cheapest and most legal way to do things. If you are in the US and break the laws they can, and will, fine you up to something like 10,000 US dollars for every breach of the law they find you have made.
> 
> By the way, in the US Hams CAN legally modify marine equipment to operate in the ham bands without any type acceptance or any of that stuff. In fact, hams can legally modify pretty much anything INTO the ham bands.
> 
> They can't modify it OUT of the ham bands.


This is a very informative thread!

So after reading it, if I wanted a low cost radio (under $500?) capable of Marine and HAM operation (and of course were to obtain a valid HAM license therefore) in the US, does anyone have any recommendations for a radio designed to operate in both bands?

I realize I am not the typical user of this forum, but my application would be for occaisonal use on my trailer boat (Marine of course) and occaisonal use in my truck (HAM of course for land based use on trail rides, hunting emergency communication, etc). My installation would have to be carefully considered for easy removal back and forth. If for reasons I haven't yet learned this is illogical or simply not cost effective, that's fine to point out as well.

I don't NEED a radio for either really, but like the idea for several reasons and feel I could more easily justify picking up the equipment, hobby, and knowledge if I could combine use cases.

Thanks for any input...

Alex (engineer and potential future radio hobbyist)


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## hellosailor

"if I wanted a low cost radio capable of "
Yeah, skip the big radio there's no such thing as a cheap one.

Buy a CB for the truck, a VHF for the boat, and a PLB to use in real emergencies wherever you happen to be, in case one of those doesn't get you help. All three of those combined will be cheaper than the option.

For a legal combination ham/ marine-ssb rig you'll pay a fast thousand bucks before you starting the installation. And it won't be terribly portable to fit most vehicles. And then of course, you'll need the licenses (ham, ships, ship operators) as well.


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## TurbineMan

I see, I see. I suppose what turned me on to this originally was research on how much better a HAM is for the truck than a CB. So perhaps it is HAM + VHF + PLB or EPIRB lol....

Sounds like the same thing I went throught trying to combine GPS. In one day you could use a GPS in your truck, boat, and backpack all they all need their own... what else is new right? 

Thank you for the input.


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## gus_452000

Well for my 2 cents, I have an Icom 7200 for my HF side and a TM-D710E for my VHF/UHF both work really well for me, I was a Yeasu man for years but thought the 7200 looked better on board. Both work very well, as for antennas, I have a dual band on top of the mast for the VHF/UHF and use the back stay for HF (with a tuner) but have just bought a vertical HF antenna which is nearly 20ft long, which I shall have installed on the back stainless work. I am told (will believe it when I see it) that it covers 80m (3.5mhz) to 6m bands (50mhz) without gaps or needing a tuner. Anyway its worth a try and yes I do have all the needed paperwork to use both the Marine and the Ham bands.
The TM-D710E does contain its own GPS system and uses a system know as APRS which my local ham friends love to see when we out and about locally.
For what its worth thats my setup, excluding various other handhelds, and they work fine for me, infact my Ham station onboard is better than the one I have at home 
Gus M0IKB


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## Joseph Rubin

Both Dave KO4MI and Rick N0NJ are correct. What they both did ... is study for their amateur radio licenses. That is why they know their stuff ! 
You can too ... if you will only take a moment to listen. It is easy and the cost will be less than $50.00 (on the average) The FCC will issue you a license ... good for 10 years ... at no cost ... if you pass the test ! There are plenty of hams who will help you ... anywhere you may be. Please don't be a GONNA. 
The sooner you start ... the quicker you will finish. It is EASY and a lot of FUN.

Need more info ? Contact <[email protected]>

73

Joe W4CBJ St. Petersburg, FL 727-821-7260 or 727-465-4072 Cell


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## aa3jy

My old SEA 322, a very robust commercial marine radio, type accepted that includes the amateur portions without modifications. Very popular with the commercial Alaskan and NWP fishing and crabbing fleets for its toughness and dependability.


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## hellosailor

Joe-
Not to go OT and not to cast any aspersion at anyone here, but
"is study for their amateur radio licenses. That is why they know their stuff ! "

Ah, no, we both know that's not always correct. There are many study courses that teach people to memorize the answers from the answer pool. Folks who memorize the answers without bothering to LEARN THE THEORY and the many regulations as well, are the ones who have licenses but ask "If my solar panel puts out 42 amps, how many watt-hours can it supply to my battery?"

Like US middle-school history classes that required memorizing the Plantegenat monarchy in England...memorizing everything for the ham licenses just isn't for everyone. Which is why there's still marine SSB, and so many books on basic electrical theory.


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