# Advice re Island Packet or similar?



## gcapper (Dec 5, 2010)

Hi. We are seeking advice re a boat to replace our old timber motor sailer. We cruise up the coast of Queensland and across the top of Australia, including the 300nm across the Gulf of Carpentaria, and like a mono-hull with good sail power but also need diesel power for much of that kind of cruising, especially given the big tides and currents. Fuel capacity and range are also an issue in these fairly remote areas. (Water can be caught from waterfalls) Also, while I have seen deck saloons/inside helm referred to on this site as "condoms for sailing", when you live aboard for 6 months, get caught in the odd storm and travel through the tropics, you come to appreciate these things at our age. 

We have been looking at importing into Australia (as is everyone these days) and at the Island Packet 40 most recently because it ticks a lot of the boxes (a shallow draft also helps with crossing the many shallow creek bars and tucking in close to shore in places of very poor shelter) but it is not a boat which we see much of in these parts. Nauticats of similar size also attract. As it is our home for much of the time, we would spend up to $A400,000 (about 240,000 British pounds ?) and would appreciate advice about the Packet etc.


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## nickmerc (Nov 2, 2008)

I have sailed an IP31 and an IP32 on a few short trips here as well as help the owners work on their boats performing basic maintenance. I have found the boats (both from the early 90's) to be of sound construction with relatively well thought out access to all systems. Neither of the boats are light air boats. I found them to start sailing decently at around 12 kts. They are not speed demons, but they are comfortable. I found the belowdecks on both models to be very nice and inviting. For cruising and living aboard I would consider an IP. They are not sexy boats, but they will get you where you want to go... eventually.

I have heard their reputation as a very slow boat. I have found that trimming the sails well will keep the boat performing decently for a wide, heavy, full keeled boat.
________
LIVE SEX WEBSHOWS


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

We don't see many Island Packets up here in Canada but I always had the impression that they were a quality boat. I recently saw one that had been grounded hard and the keel torn open. I was surprised to see concrete that had mostly crumbled to a sand like state and various chunks of scrap metal used as ballast. Not iron pigs but bits of pipe and odd shaped metal as if it had been collected at a scrap yard.


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

We have been cruising in the Caribbean for 3 years and Island Packets are very popular boats and we have several friends who sail them and are well pleased. But for the boat selling the day we made an offer we would be cruising an IP 46 now.

However, I do know that at least the earlier ones had concrete and scrap iron ballast and I would never consider buying a boat with such a system. 

Just imagine what happens if seawater gets to the scrap iron!


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## lawdawg (Oct 12, 2010)

I don't know how early we are talking. I have sailed on some island packets and been on a lot of them. They are very well made boats and I believe all the ones I looked at that were around 80's were lead keels. I am sure some people with more experience will chime in, but they are roomy, comfortable, well-appointed and good sailing boats, just not light wind boats. With a decent breeze they will be very comfortable to sail and will do quite well. I was just on one crossing to the Bahamas in some bad weather and it was quite comfortable. Considering your budget you could get a very nice boat.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

How do you know it was lead ? Island Packet keels are integral to the hull mold and filled with ballast from the inside then covered with FRP.


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

gcapper said:


> Nauticats of similar size also attract.


 I don't consider Nauticats to be very "similar" to IP's but since you mentioned them I'll make a few comments. Being pilot house motor-sailers they carry a lot of fuel and water. My little 33 carries 105 gallons of water and 140 gallons of fuel to supply the 75 hp Yanmar. Here is a link to their website - Nauticat Yachts Oy


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## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

We looked at IP's from Maine to Fla..even visited the IP factory in Largo,Fl..until we saw how they made the keels(use iron encapsulated), made the water tanks out of stainless steel and chain plates built into the hauls.

I'd follow the IP forum and read what they have to say..as we did..


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Why not look at the Calibers as well?


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## Brucerobs2 (Feb 5, 2009)

*Purpose Built boats*

My parents are currently cruising the SE coast of the US, and heading to the Bahamas for the winter on their IP38. I have spent a lot of time on this boat. IP's are great for their intended purpose- cruising. They are well made, solid, heavy, sea kindly, predictable, spacious and a comfortable boat at sea and dock. They also have one of the most loyal and enthusiastic owner's groups, which speaks volumes. If you are looking for a cruising boat, they should be high on most lists. Like most cruisers, they are well powered, have great tankage and storage, and are built for the long haul. Live-ability was very high on their check list and out ranked sailing speed. When the wind is above 20K and seas are up, these boats shine.
IP's are not racy boats, not terribly agile in close quarters, nor do they move well in light air, but are purpose-built to cruise. They live on the boat for a few months at a time and want comfort.

Other boats that we looked at were Calibers , and Passports (similar in many ways). We liked them a lot as well. As I'm sure you know, all boats have compromises. IP's are no different but are great at doing what they are made to do.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

aa3jy said:


> We looked at IP's from Maine to Fla..even visited the IP factory in Largo,Fl..until we saw how they made the keels(use iron encapsulated), made the water tanks out of stainless steel and chain plates built into the hauls.
> 
> I'd follow the IP forum and read what they have to say..as we did..


I just went through the old and new brochures on the Island Packet website and they clearly state, as I mentioned before that the keels are integral to the hull mold. They make no mention of what they fill the keels with (a curious omission) .


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

lawdawg said:


> I don't know how early we are talking. I have sailed on some island packets and been on a lot of them. They are very well made boats and I believe all the ones I looked at that were around 80's were lead keels. ...


I.P. did switch from a concrete/iron slurry to lead, but not until much later. I seem to recall that the switch to lead was in the early 2000's, or maybe late 90's. To the best of my knowledge, boats from the 80's all had the slurry as ballast.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Here is a fairly wide-ranging discussion of IPs that the O.P. might find helpful:

Island PAcket Designs

An owner in that thread reports that his model year 1999 I.P. has lead ballast.


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## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

boatpoker said:


> I just went through the old and new brochures on the Island Packet website and they clearly state, as I mentioned before that the keels are integral to the hull mold. They make no mention of what they fill the keels with (a curious omission) .


As I said in my post I was at the IP Largo,Fl. plant and watched them go through the process collecting and melting down the iron 'scap' for their keels


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## lawdawg (Oct 12, 2010)

depending on the model it is either lead, iron, or a combination, this is thoroughly discussed on their site

Island Packet Yachts


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

gcapper said:


> Hi. We are seeking advice re a boat to replace our old timber motor sailer. We cruise up the coast of Queensland and across the top of Australia, including the 300nm across the Gulf of Carpentaria, and like a mono-hull with good sail power but also need diesel power for much of that kind of cruising, especially given the big tides and currents. Fuel capacity and range are also an issue in these fairly remote areas. (Water can be caught from waterfalls) Also, while I have seen deck saloons/inside helm referred to on this site as "condoms for sailing", when you live aboard for 6 months, get caught in the odd storm and travel through the tropics, you come to appreciate these things at our age.
> 
> We have been looking at importing into Australia (as is everyone these days) and at the Island Packet 40 most recently because it ticks a lot of the boxes (a shallow draft also helps with crossing the many shallow creek bars and tucking in close to shore in places of very poor shelter) but it is not a boat which we see much of in these parts. Nauticats of similar size also attract. As it is our home for much of the time, we would spend up to $A400,000 (about 240,000 British pounds ?) and would appreciate advice about the Packet etc.


What is it that you want in a sailboat, exactly? That might help to give you some advice.

Brian


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

I have sailed IP's and bought a Caliber. They sail far better (they point better, in particular) and are aimed at long distance cruisers. THe newer models (since around 1995) have fuel capacity that is far better than anything else on the market. A friend of mine had a Caliber 40 and said he had enough fuel capacity to motor from Annapolis to Bermuda and back if he wanted to. I have an older Caliber 33 but the hull form is basically identical to the larger calibers - it was absolutely rock solid on the passage from Chesapeake Bay to the Caribbean - I would expect the bigger Calibers to be even better.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

sck5 said:


> I have sailed IP's and bought a Caliber. They sail far better (they point better, in particular) and are aimed at long distance cruisers. THe newer models (since around 1995) have fuel capacity that is far better than anything else on the market. A friend of mine had a Caliber 40 and said he had enough fuel capacity to motor from Annapolis to Bermuda and back if he wanted to. I have an older Caliber 33 but the hull form is basically identical to the larger calibers - it was absolutely rock solid on the passage from Chesapeake Bay to the Caribbean - I would expect the bigger Calibers to be even better.


That was kind of my point.


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## gcapper (Dec 5, 2010)

thank you everyone for the replies - all very informed and helpful, especially the comments on other threads to use and the keel fill of the IP. We will follow up on that as the integrated keel was one of the pluses. As to the Calibre (er) I just looked up their models and they do not seem to have a pilot house model. We do like to have inside helm with forward vision for sailing in rain/night/heavy seas to see things that don't show up on the radar - like the many abondoned Indonesian fishing nets that show up in our tropical waters.


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## gcapper (Dec 5, 2010)

*more on Nauticats*



christyleigh said:


> I don't consider Nauticats to be very "similar" to IP's but since you mentioned them I'll make a few comments. Being pilot house motor-sailers they carry a lot of fuel and water. My little 33 carries 105 gallons of water and 140 gallons of fuel to supply the 75 hp Yanmar. Here is a link to their website - Nauticat Yachts Oy


We were very interested in your post and would like you to expand if you don't mind on what you see as the differences/pro/cons of Nauticat and IP40s or their SP40. Why do you not see them as similar or were you talking more about the non-pilot house IP's? (I hope, if you answer this it doesn't involve you in a debate on their relative merits.)


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

gcapper said:


> (I hope, if you answer this it doesn't involve you in a debate on their relative merits.)


 Well...... there is really no way not to compare their relative merits if you are going to talk about the two  There really is NO comparison to me. I have been on the IP version of a """motor sailor"" but never sailed one..... how would you sail it any way....   ...... nope..... it's mostly a motor boat with sails stuck on. I suppose you could say it's a True Motorsailor because that's the only way you could sail it - with the motor running. NO outside steering or sail controls  - not for me.

I happen to like IP's and like all of them it's well built and well finished but I can't imagine trying to sail the thing. I SAIL my boat every weekend around NGBay and beyond. It's no racer and doesn't point that high but unlike the older NC 33's it has a fin keel and a taller rig (for a Nauticat ) so does OK..... for what it is. When we go on cruise vacations around the area I mostly Motor Sail and just plain motor if I have to. I don't have sail controls inside - none of the NC's do - but in a rainy situation I would just use the main for a bit of extra drive and stability while motoring from the comfort of the pilothouse.

One more comparison ...... I think the IP's are priced high..... but since the Euro beat the crap out of the dollar back when my NC331 was started the NC's prices are well into the obscenity level..... basically priced themselves out of the US market...... except for a few nuts like me....


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## gcapper (Dec 5, 2010)

Hi sexy eyes - (I hope that's okay - it's the female member of the crew this time). Thank you for your thoughts - we very much appreciate the views of true sailors who love sailing for sailing's sake even though it is just not us. We feel no urge to pretend to something we aren't - too old for that. We love the sea and being on the water and travelling to out-of-the way places by boat and your thoughts on *cruising* are very much in accord with our evolving thinking and approach - we will have to trade off a boat's sailing pluses against long-range cruising comfort and cruising is where our real interests lie rather than the true sailor's love of sailing for sailing's sake.

My wish for you not to get caught up in a forum debate referred to what seems to happen sometimes in forums: an opinion on relative merits gets somebody's gander up and off they go.


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## gcapper (Dec 5, 2010)

Cruisingdad said:


> What is it that you want in a sailboat, exactly? That might help to give you some advice.
> 
> Brian


Hi Brian

We are after primarily a live aboard, long range, cruising motor sailer with an inside helm with good vision forward from this helm and no older than 1995. It does not have to win or even place in sailing races but we want it to point and sail - not just a "sail-assisted motor cruiser". We therefore specifically would appreciate any comments on the popularity and performance specifically of Island packet's SP40 in different conditions. Many of the comments I have been able to find on the other thread are from 2007 and I wondered if over the last three years opinions had clarified and settled on a consensus. The model gets good reviews in magazines but the experience of owners/users is often more informative. Alternatively, we would also be interested in similar info on the Nauticat 44 or others of their pilothouse models after 1995. While some comments on all IP's and all Nauticats (eg durability) are useful, some aspects - eg sailing performance - just have to be *specific to the model *and so this is what we would most appreciate at this stage. Hope this is clearer.


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## jcluddite (Sep 3, 2008)

*fisher 37*

Have you considered the Fisher 37? it is built by Northshore in the UK. they also build the Vancouver and Southerly sailboat lines. I think there was at one time a Fisher 43, but not many built. Northshore has an excellent reputation for well built yachts
northshore.co.uk/NSHtml/F37.htm]Fisher 37[/url]


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