# the perfect 40' offshore 'go-anywhere' boat



## nemier (Jul 9, 2005)

I am now looking / researching for my next sailboat.
The admiral insists she wants to come (thank God), but a 34 footer will not cut it for her. I figure I can safely single-hand a 40 footer (say 38' - 42') and I'm asking you all the same question 3-Reefs asks - but move the boat size up a bit.

Please recommend what 40'-ish sailing vessel you would want to sail offshore - and around the Capes if required. I will be single-handing the boat. 
Total budget limited to say $200,000 all-in.
I'm very much interested in your opinion. Thanks.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd point out that if the admiral is planning on coming along, she should probably learn how to sail the boat herself and be able to singlehand it as well. Most cruising couples describe their sailing as two people singlehanding the same boat at different times. 

One of the most tragic stories I've heard is of a husband and wife team where the husband fell overboard and the wife didn't know enough to even attempt an MOB recovery. All she could do was watch him recede into the distance... 

If you do have to go larger, I'd recommend sticking closer to the 38' size rather than the 42' size. Cost is one reason, but size of the gear and how difficult it is to single-hand are another reason. 

Caliber makes a 38 that might be appropriate for what you're doing. Tayana makes a 37' boat that also might be good, as are the Cabo Rico 38s.


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

Around the capes? Well, I dont know if I'd trust anything short of steel pilothouse cutter in those lattitudes.

If you're circumnavigating the traditional route (Red Sea/Suez and Panama Canals) I'd probably do it in a Pacific Seacraft 40. Not gonna find one for $200k that doesn't need a lot of work...but in my minds eye, its the perfect blend of features, lines, robustness with a strong history of performance.

Plus, the rig is 55' high, so you can squeeze under every bridge on the ICW, including the Julia Tuttle in Miami to stay protected all the way up an down which is what most people end up doing anyway.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

i did a Yachtworld search in B.C.and didn't find any I would consider suitable, but this boat is. Not sure of price but I have been aboard and everything is first class from design to varnish. Prairie Dust


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Second Brian's rec of the Spencer 1330... plenty of these have made the trek, including cape roundings. Local build too (this one looks nicely finished to boot.)


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

If I had to pick a boat with a 200,000 budget for the kind of voyaging that you are considering, I would probably either go the heavy route with something like a Valliant 40 or Peterson 44, or go the performance route with something like a J-44 or Farr 44, but then again, I'm not saying that you have to go the performance route. Its just what I would do.

Jeff


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Layout and profile of the Spencer I linked to. Not too heavy, not too light. My favorite of the Spencer designs.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

Oh Joy made the Horn from East to West so I wouldn't discount other than steel boats for it. Jessica Watson just made the Horn going the other way and the Force 10 storm that followed just fine in an S&S 34.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

CharlieCobra said:


> Oh Joy made the Horn from East to West so I wouldn't discount other than steel boats for it. Jessica Watson just made the Horn going the other way and the Force 10 storm that followed just fine in an S&S 34.


WTH??? "Oh Joy" went 'round the Horn? Holy crap dude, you never told me that!!!


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

nemier said:


> I am now looking / researching for my next sailboat.
> The admiral insists she wants to come (thank God), but a 34 footer will not cut it for her. I figure I can safely single-hand a 40 footer (say 38' - 42') and I'm asking you all the same question 3-Reefs asks - but move the boat size up a bit.
> 
> Please recommend what 40'-ish sailing vessel you would want to sail offshore - and around the Capes if required. I will be single-handing the boat.
> ...


With your requirements and budget, I would give this boat a serious look:

2000 Fast Passage 39


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

As a bit of a fan of Bob Perry's work I'd have to say the Norseman (40 or 447) and Passport (40 or 41) are favourites of mine.

edit - maybe the Norsemans are outside you budget though.


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

A J boat for a completely unschooled wife to singlehand while you sleep? Dont do it.


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## nemier (Jul 9, 2005)

Thanks for the replies guys.

So far we have a Caliber 38, Tayana 37, Cabo Rico 38, PSC 40, Spencer 1330, Valiant 40, Peterson 44, J-44, Farr 44, Fast Passage 39, Norseman 447, Passport 40. I'm somewhat familiar with all of them but I'll enjoy reviewing them all again and report back. Thanks for the input.

BTW, I may have given the wrong impression about the Admiral. The sailing passion is solely mine, but she can handle the boat alright. She's "the bigger the better, & I'm "less is more". No doubt we'll compromise like we always do and find something in the middle - hence the 40 footer thread.

Cheers.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Nemier,
You remember we discussed this a while back by email. Its still my belief that for a live aboard the 34'er is too small if you want the comforts. We've just got back from a few weeks away on Raven and it really is the case when you are not able to tie up somewhere every couple of days.
The place we went to has no marinas and dinghy access is also limited due to conditions in the town anchorage except under certain conditions. When you stock up on your needs for a couple of weeks and like those comforts you do get sick and tired of having to move boxes of stuff in order to get to other boxes of stuff and then put it all back again.
Water is of course an issue, as is refrigerator space. Clothes not so much but for longer than a few weeks they would become so.
That said my feeling is that for two, forty feet should be adequate.
One of the boats I mentioned (the Norseman 447) is if anything too big, though I love the things which is why I put it in. The P40 would make a lot more sense.
OTOH......Jeff mentioned the Farr 44 and the J44....I think I'm right in saying that both are fractional rig. (Jeff ?). To my mind that small headsail is a wonderful thing for the short handed crew, particularly when said crew is not all that beefy....I am talking us here not necesssarily you. The Wombet finds it quite tiring to sheet in our genoa if we are working up or down harbour which is where she usually prefers me to helm. If e.g. we were sailing something with a headsail the size of the N447 she would probably leave me and Raven for a Winnebago. 
Cheers


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

Sorry, I'm not selling. 
Kidding, good luck, see you on the water.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

Here's a few possible bluewater options to consider in the ~40 foot range and less than $200k:

TaShiba 40
Panda 38/40
Halberg Rassy 38/42
Swan 39-44
Lafitte 44


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## nemier (Jul 9, 2005)

Kwaltersmi - thanks for those suggestions, I've added them to my growing research list. The Swan's will be getting some serious Yachtworld time.

TDW - I remember our chats and meant to get back to you. I recently concluded that my 34' Van de Stadt project proved too costly. I was already up to $470,000 CDN dollars and still hadn't completely costed out the final equipment specs. Long story short, I could not afford it - and all this money and effort was going into a new build that the Admiral was not crazy about and I was aware that the steel boat was going to be too slow for my liking (at 34') I couldn't muster spending half a million on a vessel that wasn't exactly what we were looking for, so back to plan A. For the record, the new build is not shelved for good. Watch this space in 20 years.

All - My thinking at this time, is to go the performance route. I believe these boats will be easier to single-hand which is my primary goal. Right now I'm looking at a Dehler 41CR. I'm finding this all pretty exciting!


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## Capnblu (Mar 17, 2006)

We have a Tayana 42 center cockpit, Vancouver edition that we are refitting now, we are out in Abbotsford if you want to come and have a look at blue water boat. Not for sale, but may give you an idea, or two.


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## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

*Whitby 42/Brewer 12.8*

Let me start by saying that if you are going with just you and your wife, and she's willing but not enthusiastic (which is what I'm gathering), I question whether you will be sailing the 5 Capes, or why you would even want to do so.

In any event, I think a great boat that is now a budget boat, is the Whitby 42 or its close cousin the Brewer 12.8. They both are essentially the same boat, but the Brewer is considered more the performance oriented of the two.

They are built like a brick house, have an incredibly comfortable and easy motion, have huge tankage, lots of space, great storage, a very comfortable cockpit, shippy looking, split rig so easy to handle for short-handed crew (particularly a husband and wife crew), and a whole lot more to recommend them. Plus, they can be had for substantially less than your budget, meaning under $100,000.

The downside is that they are old at this point, and likely will need meaningful upgrades, depending on the boat you can find. But, based on the initial purchase price, you can refit them completely and still be way under your budget.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

My thought would be one of the last Ericson sailboats made by Pacafic Seacraft. Built like a truck, quality construction, etc. Check cout Yachtworld and search for a 38' Pacific Seacraft Ericson 380 Offshore. they have a nice one for 180K. Meets your criteria nicley.

-Bruce


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Booya said:


> My thought would be one of the last Ericson sailboats made by Pacafic Seacraft. Built like a truck, quality construction, etc. Check cout Yachtworld and search for a 38' Pacific Seacraft Ericson 380 Offshore. they have a nice one for 180K. Meets your criteria nicley.
> 
> -Bruce


I actually just read the details about a 1998 Ericson 380 located In St. Petersburg, FL and this boat is clean.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Another locally built boat that may fit the bill is a Sceptre 41/43. The 43 is a open transom version of the 41.. no longer built, the last was a custom job in 2005, but several 41s around.. at least one of which has done several circumnavigations including ice-to-ice.

Sceptre 41

View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com

Voyage of the Solstice

I can put you in touch with several local owners.


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## sapster77 (Nov 5, 2009)

kwaltersmi said:


> Here's a few possible bluewater options to consider in the ~40 foot range and less than $200k:
> 
> TaShiba 40
> Panda 38/40
> ...


I'd go for the Hallberg Rassy - no doubt. If you're not going the performance route that is...


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## slap (Mar 13, 2008)

Booya said:


> My thought would be one of the last Ericson sailboats made by Pacafic Seacraft. Built like a truck, quality construction, etc. Check cout Yachtworld and search for a 38' Pacific Seacraft Ericson 380 Offshore. they have a nice one for 180K. Meets your criteria nicley.
> 
> -Bruce


Poster "SV Escape Plan" has his Ericson 38-200 for sale in Annapolis - while it is a pre-Pacific Seacraft boat, it is in exceptional condition - I looked at the boat last year.


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## COOL (Dec 1, 2009)

tdw said:


> Nemier,
> ....Jeff mentioned the Farr 44 and the J44....I think I'm right in saying that both are fractional rig.


The Farr 44 has a fractional rig,
although I know of one that was built with a pilot house
and a masthead rig.
The J 44 is masthead rigged, but does have a moderately
short 'J' and very long boom.
A J 44 would be at lot of boat to handle for a couple,
unless they are fairly athletic. a J 40 would fit the bill
nicely.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

There is no such a thing as the perfect 40 offshore boat. All boats are some sort of compromise, but I think your wife is going to love this one:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1998/Dehler-41-Deck-Saloon---Updated-2009-2040985/Hilton-Head/SC/United-States

It seems in good condition and updated. The boat is relatively fast, has oceangoing capacities, it's well built and has a self taking jib.

But only you and your wife can decide what is the compromise that suits your needs.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I love the Dehler 41DS and had seriously considered making an offer on that one at Hilton Head Island. Had it checked out by a good natured soul (thanks again Hog) but to my mind it fell down in a number of areas.

From my perspective the turbo diesel and shoal draft were the killers. Had it not been turbo I may well have forgiven the shallow draft. She also has air con which I don't need or want but that can always be ripped out.

edit...and replaced by heating. 

ps - Fast...that Spectre 41DS is a good looking boat isn't it ? Expensive sucker though.


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## pontiakos (Jun 1, 2007)

There are many brands to choose including Fuji, which in the ketch configuration is quite pleasant to singlehand...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

COOL said:


> The Farr 44 has a fractional rig,
> although I know of one that was built with a pilot house
> and a masthead rig.
> The J 44 is masthead rigged, but does have a moderately
> ...


It's probably just ignorance - but I don't trust the keels on the J-boats. There have been to many stories of problems. I love the boats - I'm just sayin'.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

tdw said:


> As a bit of a fan of Bob Perry's work I'd have to say the Norseman (40 or 447) and Passport (40 or 41) are favourites of mine.
> 
> edit - maybe the Norsemans are outside you budget though.


You know - the more I see of Perry's designs - the more I really appreciate his talent. As a recovering architect - I really appreciate his attention to detail and his ability to create a clear sense of quality with the interiors.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

tdw said:


> ...ps - Fast...that Spectre 41DS is a good looking boat isn't it ? Expensive sucker though.


Yes, td, it's a handsome boat. Here's another in California, though you may be looking for something newer.

View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com

There are at least 4 or them, one a 43 - the last built - in our little club. All the owners are pleased, and all are fastidious boat keepers. The windows are not as large as some of the other PH types like the Cooper series, and clearly many of these boats have traveled extensively offshore.

They do hold their value - esp the latest 43s but they have some nice features and are a showcase for BC boatbuilding.


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## 3Reefs (Jan 12, 2010)

*most seaworthy*

I've got the same search, though with less money, and happily taking a few feet off. But here is a short list. Would anyone have a stab at ranking the list -- purely in relation to seaworthiness. So capsize resistance, higher AVS, robust build, seakindly shape. All the rest, the space, the looks, the tankage, etc etc, is essentially malleable. Pure seaworthiness is what I want to focus on at outset. You'll see I've left off Tayana 37, Ingrid 38, HansChristian, etc because I just think they are too heavy, too tank-like, and I want a boat that's strong, but lighter than those. A boat that could sail out of trouble, not just plough through it. Here goes (in no particular order):

Wauquiez Pretorien 35
Bayfield 36
Morgan 382
Southern Cross 39
Sabre 38
Bristol 40
Spencer 35/42
Valiant 37
Valiant 40
PSC 37
Shannon 38
Rafiki 37 (the only 'Tayana' type, but actually lighter than Tayanas and, I understand, better sailers).


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

3Reefs said:


> I've got the same search, though with less money, and happily taking a few feet off. But here is a short list. Would anyone have a stab at ranking the list -- purely in relation to seaworthiness. So capsize resistance, higher AVS, robust build, seakindly shape. All the rest, the space, the looks, the tankage, etc etc, is essentially malleable. Pure seaworthiness is what I want to focus on at outset. You'll see I've left off Tayana 37, Ingrid 38, HansChristian, etc because I just think they are too heavy, too tank-like, and I want a boat that's strong, but lighter than those. A boat that could sail out of trouble, not just plough through it. Here goes (in no particular order):
> 
> Wauquiez Pretorien 35
> Bayfield 36
> ...


I'd create a new thread on this...


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

well this one is not the ideal boat to make the three capes, but it is a lot more seaworthy than it appears to be. It is an ocean going boat, I would say in same league as a j120, but with a much better interior. I would say a lovely interior, much more adapted to cruising.

The add talks about racing but this is more a fast cruiser that would not look bad on club racing. And the price is right.

2004 Wauquiez Centurion Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## sailordave (Jun 26, 2001)

One of these was in our class at KWRW last week. Not a bad looking boat. We were trading places all week until a chain plate partially pulled out and we were done for the week!


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## bosn181 (Feb 7, 2010)

*looking for a 40ish offshore boat*

you need to look at the Corbin 39 currently for sale in Victoria BC. this vessel is being completely rebuilt and Corbin's are top shelf for offshore capabilities.
Amazing boats when they are not the home built interior versions, solid hulls, sail great and easy to handle
it is on Yachtworld and currently in Westbay Marina, Victoria BC.....very nice boat in your price range

Cheers,
Kevin


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

If you mean the one listed by Carmanah yes it does look good.


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)

nemier said:


> I am now looking / researching for my next sailboat.
> The admiral insists she wants to come (thank God), but a 34 footer will not cut it for her. I figure I can safely single-hand a 40 footer (say 38' - 42') and I'm asking you all the same question 3-Reefs asks - but move the boat size up a bit.
> 
> Please recommend what 40'-ish sailing vessel you would want to sail offshore - and around the Capes if required. I will be single-handing the boat.
> ...


Buy this one and upgrade. B40 on the west coast that looks to be in good shape and well priced. Ferenc Matte wrote in The World's Best Sailboats.. "the Bermuda 40 is without question the greatest fiberglass boat of all time". I have to admit that I have a bias.  I single hand frequently.

1964 Hinckley Bermuda Custom Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## nemier (Jul 9, 2005)

*40 footer update*

Guys / Gals,
Many thanks for your suggestions. I have written each one down and I'm doing research on every one as time permits. I'll post a quick synopsis when I'm complete. Just wanted to say thank you and please keep your suggestions coming!


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## hgv50 (Mar 23, 2010)

Out of the HRs, we went for the Hallberg-Rassy 41 (1978). Decent ones are usually around $ 200,000 (pretty well equipped then; no need to spend another 50% to get ready). Cost of fixing stuff on the HRs is *not* higher than any other brand.


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## RainDog (Jun 9, 2009)

Another great boat from a Canadian builder is the Amazon 37. A touch below your size, but otherwise fits your needs.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

RainDog said:


> Another great boat from a Canadian builder is the Amazon 37. A touch below your size, but otherwise fits your needs.


And Waterline Yachts too... another custom steel builder in BC - might be a bit on the pricey side if you can find them.


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## Rhys05 (Aug 22, 2012)

RainDog said:


> Another great boat from a Canadian builder is the Amazon 37. A touch below your size, but otherwise fits your needs.


Alright, I know...resurrecting a three year old thread yada yada...but... Anyone out there actually sailed an Amazon 37? I'm certain that they are NOT a light air rocket, but can they sail out of their own way? Just working on our two year plan...and there are a couple I have seen for sale lately. Steel boats are intriguing...but...I also don't want a pig. For comparison purposes I am also considering the Tartan 37, CS-36T, and Beneteau First 38 (1980s).


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

All of those you mention would outsail the Amazon 37.


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## Rhys05 (Aug 22, 2012)

But Bob...they aren't STEEL...so I wouldn't survive an ocean crossing, right?? (Is there a smilie for "tongue firmly in cheek"??) Yeah, I pretty much knew that all of them would out sail the Amazon, the question is really by how much? While I've got your ear, you remember much about the "Mantra 38 pilot house" that is out of Bainbridge island? I believe her name is currently "Northern Light."


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Rhys:
The Amazons were designed by my old buddy Graham Shannon. They are decent designs.
I think the difference would depend on your a boat go. If you are a hacker then it won't make much difference. If yu are not a hacker then the diffenece might start to get annoying.

I can't give you a VMG difference to three decimal places. I can oly give you my guess.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

bobperry said:


> I can't give you a VMG difference to three decimal places. I can oly give you my guess.


Sounds to me like Bob is getting lazy in his old age. Time to pull his membership here, too. I mean, really, what else does he add here?

(runs away before Bob summons his old friend Poseidon)


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

Booya said:


> My thought would be one of the last Ericson sailboats made by Pacafic Seacraft. Built like a truck, quality construction, etc. Check cout Yachtworld and search for a 38' Pacific Seacraft Ericson 380 Offshore. they have a nice one for 180K. Meets your criteria nicley.
> 
> -Bruce


Bruce, I think the one you're referring to is no longer on YW. But I did find it on Sailboatlistings for $149,900. Though since it's no longer on YW, it may be sold or off the market. SL has a reputation of not removing dead listings in a timely fashion.

Of the PS-built E38-200s, the '98 on YW (in Annapolis) is listed for $144,900. There's a '93 in Vancouver for Can $99,000. And a '91 E38 in Noank, CT listed at $99,495. That's been on the market over a year.

I do not know which, if any, are the Offshore version but we did see the one in Noank, CT. After having looked at numerous other E38-200s, I liked this one best but it was $30K more than the next highest list price and even the broker could not justify the additional cost. The Noank boat read dry at all deck penetrations, the only E38 that did. _Escape Plan_ was a close second with wet readings only near the anchor locker handle. And if the E38 is on your radar, this is a good one too.

FWIW, several people I've talked to (two former dealers included) say the PS-built Ericsons were NOT built to Pacific Seacraft standards. PS just bought the molds and continued building them the way Ericson did with upgrades only in the electrical and plumbing systems. But the dry deck in the only PS-built E38 we looked at made me wonder about that. I have a good feel for a quality build and the boat did seem a little better built. davidpm was also aboard that day and maybe he'll pipe in and give his assessment.

nemier, if you the E38 is on your short list and want to know more, let me know. We have lots of pics and more info on the '91. Good luck!


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