# Adler Barbour Cold Machine troubleshooting



## chris1514 (Apr 28, 2002)

My Adler Barbour 12-volt refrigerator stopped working. There's kind of a mild hissing sound coming from the refrigerator and someone told me I have to replace the "cold Plate." It's a Cold Machine, and I can't find anything called a cold plate. What the heck is it? Thanks to anyone who can help.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Do you get any cooling effect after a half hour or more? A cold plate is an evaporator that is inside a vessel and it's filled with a eutectic fluid that gets colder then water.

This is a cold plate








This is a evaporator.








One of the first questions I ask.. has anyone tried to remove the frost with an icepick?


----------



## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Yeah it sounds like you are low on refrigerant. While the hissing sound could be from the actual leak, that sound would not be around long; a leak big enough to hear would lose the entire charge very quickly. More likely the hissing is the sound of what is left of the refrigerant flowing into the evaporator. The pressures are probably too low for the refrigerant to condense into liquid so you are just feeding gas through the system, hence, little or no refrigerating effect.

You will need to try to locate the leak. It could be a damaged evaporator plate, as DeniseO3O suggests, or it could be somewhere on the lineset between the compressor and the evaporator. Sometimes there will be an accumulation of oil at the leak, but not always. look for spots where the copper pipes could be chaffing on something. Sometimes on kit systems the excess line set is left coiled up in such a way that it can vibrate and chaffe together. you can use a slightly diluted dish soap solution on spots that you suspect might be leaking, and if it bubbles it is leaking.

If you can find the leak then we can talk about what needs to be done to repair it. There are a number of options ranging from a DIY repair attempt. (with our professional advice of course) to replacement of the entire evap section. Or you might want to hire a professional in your area to repair it.

One note: do not run the system knowing it is low on refrigerant. Doing so will cause the compressor to run much hotter than it should. More importantly, the suction side could actually run in a vacuum, and if the leak is on the low side of the circuit it will draw moisture into the system, causing even more problems than you already have.


----------



## chris1514 (Apr 28, 2002)

Thanks a ton for your reply! I have a little more info now. Apparently there was a leak and I've been told I have to replace the evaporator unit. Problem is, the fridge dates to 1986 and uses R12 refrigerant, which, as you know, is not legal. So any replacement available will use R134 and not be compatible with the compressor. 

A local marine fridge company said I should replace the whole unit Do you see any practical alternative to that? 

If not, would you recommend another Adler Barbour unit or a Seafrost BD, which the local company recommended to me?

I have a 1986 Cal 28-2 with a small capacity fridge, around 4 cubic feet, so I don't need anything big. If I do replace the unit, I'd like something efficient I can use on a mooring with minimum drain on the battery. (I have a Honda generator that I run a few hours a day to recharge the battery.)

Any advice would be welcome!


----------



## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Convert the R12 to a R134 





Then find a used evaporator from someone who had a bad compressor and ripped his unit out because he didn't ask around on Sailnet 

Take the money you save from doing that - and buy a solar panel set up so you don't need the honda as much.

Yeah, I know, I'm a genius.


----------



## chris1514 (Apr 28, 2002)

Nice. I'll take a look. Thanks.


----------



## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

It has been proven over many years that in small systems like yours R134a can be dropped in without an oil change. You don't need the automotive 134a fittings or anything. 

As for the evaporator needing replacement, I have sucessfully repaired leaks on those aluminum plates using a special epoxy intended for that purpose.

The biggest problem you will have is evacuating the system, and then recharging with the correct amount of refrigerant because you need some specialized tools. Some people just replace the entire system because it is easier.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Replacing it would be a good thing if you want reliable refrigeration. I have a AB evaporator if you want it Chris. They only hold about 5 ozs, you should be able to find a local hvac tech that has some R12. I still use it in my old car.


----------



## Brewgyver (Dec 31, 2011)

R12 is no longer manufactured, but there's still plenty of it around for small systems. You can find people selling it on eBay, there are listings there as I type this for single cans at $13.00 plus $7.00 shipping.

As ShockT mentioned, putting 134a in would work, but you'd still have to evacuate the system first. BUT, if you still have a partial charge in the unit, simply replenishing it with R12 should buy you some time. You SHOULD find and repair the leak, but that may be difficult adn or expensive. Heat-Seal Stik and Highside Red Epoxy will both do the job, but they're not cheap, and you won't find them at HD. But there's a good chance that your leak is so small that $20 worth of R12 could keep it going for years. I once spent hours with an electronic CFC detector trying to find the leak on a buddy's old kegerator. Never could find it. Put in a few ounces of R12, one time, and it ran another 6 years til he got a new one.


----------



## nc_pearson_303 (Nov 18, 2012)

Just some points to remember when servicing AB coldmachines/supercoldmachines. The refrigeration oil used in an R-12 system is NOT compatible with that used in a R-134A system, if changing refrigerants, change the oil as well. The AB toll-free tech service people can tell you exactly how many ounces of refrigant each different system needs. My supercoldmachine with VD-160 holdover plate freezer uses exactly 3.52 oz. Having more or less will cause the compressor to draw more amps and lengthen chilling time. My system draws 6.5 amps running, but 15 amps starting-it's VERY sensitive to use of 12 gage or heavier wiring. The comprressor shuts down when the plate is at -5 deg. F. The correct way to charge the system is to evacuate all the refrigerant, then use a vacuum pump to get the whole system down to -29lbs and be sure it holds the vacuum with all service hoses shut off for at least 8 hours-if the low pressure gage rises, you have an air leak. Charge the system initially by placing the R-134 can + tap on an ounce-reading scale. Write down the initial weight. Open the can tap and the low pressure valve on the gage set until the can and refer pressures have equalized, and write down the ounce reading. Then turn on the compressor to suck in as many more ounces the system calls for-immediately shut off the can tap and low pressure valve. Different configurations run with different pressures. Mine peaks out at 155 lbs on the high side and 9 lbs on the low side with the plate reading -5 deg. F.


----------



## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

> The refrigeration oil used in an R-12 system is NOT compatible with that used in a R-134A system, if changing refrigerants, change the oil as well.


Good methods nc pearson, but with regards to the oil, the only problem with the mineral oil in the old R12 systems is that it is not miscible with 134a; it cannot be dissolved in the refrigerant. bigger systems rely on the oil being carried through the system with the refrigerant, but on little systems like these little or no oil moves out of the compressor, so miscibility is not required. That is why you can drop 134a into a system without having to switch to Polyol Ester oil. Also, while weighing the refrigerant in on a scale is technically correct, in practice it often isn't practical. A system can also be charged using suction pressure and temperature measurements. I rarely ever weigh a charge into a system that small, and even if I do, I usually end up adjusting the charge to get it running the way I like it.

Because the temperature and pressure characteristics of R12 and R134a are so similar, the two refrigerants are compatible with each other too. Although it is certainly not "best practice" blending the two will do no harm. In a pinch you _could_ top up an R12 system with R134a if there was no means of evacuating available.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

As a professional in HVAC I'm staying out of this one!


----------



## msmith10 (Feb 28, 2009)

deniseO30 said:


> As a professional in HVAC I'm staying out of this one!


That's OK! We're used to getting opinions only from those with no expertise on the subject being discussed 

(No reflection on previous posters intended-- it was just too hot a line to pass up)


----------



## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

deniseO30 said:


> As a professional in HVAC I'm staying out of this one!


I too am an industry professional. In my 19 years in the industry I have worked on everything from custom made aquarium chillers to 100 ton blast freezers and refrigerated warehouses. At one point in my career I was installing custom refrigeration systems for the local Hunter dealer, as well as maintaining and installing refrigeration systems for a couple of charter companies. I have experience with dual voltage systems as well as engine drive systems. I have made custom heat exchangers and holding plates, and even made my own condensers. I have repaired dozens of systems, and converted plenty of them from 12 to 134a.

These days I mainly work on commercial and industrial refrigeration and HVAC systems, but I still do the occasional boat system for fellow club members.

So, I think I am qualified to speak on the subject....


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Because I'm qualified.. I choose to not speak!

_still plays with ice cubes and fans_


----------



## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

deniseO30 said:


> Because I'm qualified.. I choose to not speak!
> 
> _still plays with ice cubes and fans_


How odd that you choose that position. Even odder still that you choose to post your decision not to have an opinion! Almost like some kind of passive-aggressive way of disagreeing...


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

OP has only made 3 posts to this thread; very little of what's being tossed around here really is going to help until he updates his progress. * I did offer him an evaporator if he wants it. *

I'm certainly not going to enter another qualification contest. (wizzing contest) Why I hold back on advice.

134 and mineral oil don't mix but the system will still work. how long and how well to be determined if and when it fails. (But it's already an old system, so why not?) There is a whole list of results but very little visual proof of what happens.

No one would pay me to put 134 into a system that has not been flushed and changed over. Even though it's done allot by DIYers. I would not do it either.. it's not worth the trouble. If someone asks me if it can be done I say "do what you want, you will anyway"

Cost to convert small vs new by a professional often makes sense to go new with labor rates being so high.

Even Danfoss says; replace the compressor.

12volt boat systems are small but very expensive compared to traditional 120-230 volt systems. Old vs new makes allot of sense for those that are not DIY types.


----------



## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Of course I would expect a professional who is equipped with the appropriate equipment to properly evacuate a system. That is why they are paid the big bucks! My point is that just because a system has a leak does not mean that whole system needs to be ripped out and thrown in the garbage! In many cases a few hours of technician's time can have the system back up and running reliably. There are some DIY owners out there that also have the ability to effect repairs given adequate advice and access to a couple of specialty tools. Unfortunately many systems don't even have service ports to allow access to the system, making it even harder for DIY repairs. 

It is true that many refrigeration technician's rates are high enough that it may not be worth while for the owner or the technician. Not many boat owners would want to pay the $120/hr my company charges, but there are guys out there that work for much less. 

There are also some owners out there that want to fully understand all the systems on their boat so they can be as self-sufficient as possible. If you are cruising in remote areas and your refrigeration goes down, it would definitely be good to know what needs to be done and be able to do it. It helps to know what can and cannot be done. It is likely that buying a new kit system from your local Westmarine just isn't an option.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

This would not be a good time to start the discussion on inertia, pendulum, or wave action reciprocating compressors? lmao


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Oh! I really love the birdsye maple swing arm LOL


----------



## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Might have a hard time fitting that down in the lazarette!


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> This would not be a good time to start the discussion on inertia, pendulum, or wave action reciprocating compressors? DeniseO30


Sounda like discussion over my head.


----------



## Mark (Jul 14, 2015)

My Adler /Barbour freezer system I believe has a leak as I am losing the 134a . The problem is we believe
the leak is in an inaccessible area. Is there a technique for fixing the leak? The technician is not very
familiar with the boat system.


----------



## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Wow! Talk about dredging up old threads!

There is a product out there that some guys use called "Easy Seal". Some guys swear by it. I prefer to actually find and repair the leak, but I have used it a couple of times in situations where conventional methods were not practical, and the alternative is replacing the unit. In both cases the leak was sealed and the units worked long after.

Easy Seal


----------



## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Mark said:


> My Adler /Barbour freezer system I believe has a leak as I am losing the 134a . The problem is we believe
> the leak is in an inaccessible area. Is there a technique for fixing the leak? The technician is not very
> familiar with the boat system.


You probably have a leak in the line due to chafing on a hard surface, or some salt water has corroded through the thin wall aluminum line. I've brazed small holes, but is only a temporary fix. A new evaporator unit will be cheaper then a refrigerator techs time. Also check the connection between compressor and evaprator fittings..they do come loose...


----------



## Don Fleischer (Sep 19, 2015)

I've been running R134 in my AdlerBarbour unit for years. It came with R12 and I was told I could not use R134 without changing the 
evaporator nozzle or some such bull. I mearly bought a few cans of R134 and gave it a try and it works great. I think too many people shoot from the hip on too many subjects. If you are already looking at a big bill, give it a try, what can you loose?


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Don Fleischer said:


> I've been running R134 in my AdlerBarbour unit for years. It came with R12 and I was told I could not use R134 without changing the
> evaporator nozzle or some such bull. I mearly bought a few cans of R134 and gave it a try and it works great. I think too many people shoot from the hip on too many subjects. If you are already looking at a big bill, give it a try, what can you loose?


Did you change the oil? you may have lucked out with a newer unit that has compatible oil It would have failed by now.

A few cans? they only hold about 5 oz! 
http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1155&context=iracc


----------



## Stu Jackson (Jul 28, 2001)

To the OP:

You said hissing sound.

That is NORMAL. When the unit starts up the refrigerant is being fed through the small lines in the evaporator.

To learn more, go here and ask:

Kollmann Marine


----------

