# Mayer's Motor Mount for Sailboat Outboard?



## Wallilabu (Jan 29, 2009)

Hi friends. When I restored my 1964 Sparkman and Stepehen Sailmaster 22, I mounted a 6 HP Suzuki in the stern lazarette for auxillary power, with remote controls in the cockpit. Although aesthetically pleasing, I am not satisfied with her handling under power with this configuration and am thinking of moving the motor to a stern mount. I've used the traditional stern brackets on other boats this size, but haven't cared much for them either.

Anyway, I ran across this new design called the Mayer's Mount, designed and patented by Tom Mayers down in the Keys. The Mayers Motor Mount, Sailing, Outboard Motor Management System

The concept is basically a stainless steel tubular frame that has a movable yoke on which the motor can be raised and lowered to proper position. Ease of doing so is a clear plus, and the motor can be on the centerline, but it would carry the wieght further aft. Does anyone have any experience or insight into this mount?

Wallilabu


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

What don't you like about the handling under the power with the outboard as it is?


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

That is a pretty bad looking mount and i know bad looking


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## Wallilabu (Jan 29, 2009)

*Backing her down....*



mitiempo said:


> What don't you like about the handling under the power with the outboard as it is?


The problem is the total lack of predictability and control when trying to back her up under power. The current configuration is shown here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/gkoski...anAndStephensSailmaster22#5358506970980987026

https://picasaweb.google.com/gkoski...anAndStephensSailmaster22#5358507057115408418

Obviously sailboats were never meant to go backwards, and with a full keel configuration (about 3900 lbs total displacement on 16 ft of waterline), such designs never do well in reverse, but it seems the prop wash hitting the rudder must disrupt the flow over the rudder that would offer some steerage and push the hull away. Also, because of the motor always being in the water, the drag effects the performance under sail especially on port tack where she carries a significant amount of lee helm. So, it seemed that the solution(s) might be to get the motor further away from the rudder for improving performance under power and getting it out of the water when under sail, hence the idea of the mount.

I am very open-minded and have little experience with this, so all thoughts and suggestions appreciated..


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

That is a great looking boat you made for your self and i cant see destroying such a beautiful looking transom 

I had a Victoria 18 that looked that looked a lot like it which had a cast bronze mount on the deck that could lift and and be quick removed to stow so it did not kill the look of the boat when it was off 

My J24 has more modern mount with about 10" of travel and with the motor tilted its easy to keep it out of the water

In forward it will sit and spin in a circle 30 years later its still not much of a performer in reverse


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

I had a Coronado 25 with a similar motor well arrangement
except that the motor could be tipped up. At times we would
leave the motor down in neutral and really couldn't tell much,
any difference in speed. Reverse needed a certain amount
of speed through the water, just took a little bit of getting
used to. Putting a transom mounted bracket on will move 
the weight further aft and unless you go to a longer shaft
motor it is likely the prop will come out in any kind of a chop.
Suggest you work on backing up procedures and keep
your existing setup. Nice looking boat as is.

Dabnis


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

Please consider this before you move the motor mount. One of the big problems with outboards on the stern is that the motor is placed far back and as the boat pitches up and down in any significant chop, the engine will pop out of the water and you loose propulsion. In your situation, the motor is mounted relatively far forward and deep, so you should get the best propulsion forward in this position. Backing control, especially turning might improve a little by moving the engine further back so as to get a little more leverage, but if you are trying to back in a chop and the engine is popping out of the water more, you'll probably have a net loss. 

When sailing, if the engine is in the water, and you leave the engine in neutral so the propeller can spin freely, and as long as the engine is placed on the boat's center line and not turned away from the centerline (acting like an supplemental rudder), I would not expect that you would get any difference in weather helm due to the engine. But if you were off center on the mount just a little, or the engine was turned away from center line, or the prop was locked in gear (the shape of the prop when not turning might also act as a supplemental rudder, requiring more tiller force to offset), then you could get weather helm. Some might say letting the prop spin freely is hard on the gearing....perhaps so, but Yanmar has sent out a bulletin on my engine saying that it's better to let the prop free wheel, otherwise there might be some transmission damage resulting when in gear while sailing with engine not running.


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## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

Pretty boat, I sure as heck wouldn't hang the outboard off the stern! A silly question, but do you have the right prop on the outboard? I had an O'day 20 once with a 6 Hp Johnson. I bought a "displacement boat prop" and was shocked at the improvement in handling under power, both in forward and reverse.

Gary H. Lucas


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## Wallilabu (Jan 29, 2009)

*Please tell me more!*



GaryHLucas said:


> Pretty boat, I sure as heck wouldn't hang the outboard off the stern! A silly question, but do you have the right prop on the outboard? I had an O'day 20 once with a 6 Hp Johnson. I bought a "displacement boat prop" and was shocked at the improvement in handling under power, both in forward and reverse.
> 
> Gary H. Lucas


I've been wondering about that...hard to find out much about any special props. Seems like this could help. I too am reluctant to hand anything off the stern, but I hate to keep lifting the motor in and out of the well...that is probably what the designers (Sparkman and Stephens) intended however.

Does anyone know anything about a 'displacement boat' prop for a 6 hp outboard?


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## Wallilabu (Jan 29, 2009)

*Not just another pretty rear end...*



tommays said:


> That is a great looking boat you made for your self and i cant see destroying such a beautiful looking transom
> 
> I had a Victoria 18 that looked that looked a lot like it which had a cast bronze mount on the deck that could lift and and be quick removed to stow so it did not kill the look of the boat when it was off
> 
> ...


Thanks, Tom...I am being swayed by the various responses. Wallilabu's lines are really very beautiful, classic Sparkman and Stephens, and that is why I went to such trouble to avoid spoiling them...so I am rethinking...

By the way, there is a whole set of pictures of her restoration available at that website:

https://picasaweb.google.com/gkoski...AndRebirthOfASparkmanAndStephensSailmaster22#

We did most of the work at the historic Gamage Shipyard in South Bristol, Maine, where Wallilabu now lives, indoors in the winter...pampered girl!


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## Wallilabu (Jan 29, 2009)

*Off center...*



NCC320 said:


> Please consider this before you move the motor mount. One of the big problems with outboards on the stern is that the motor is placed far back and as the boat pitches up and down in any significant chop, the engine will pop out of the water and you loose propulsion. In your situation, the motor is mounted relatively far forward and deep, so you should get the best propulsion forward in this position. Backing control, especially turning might improve a little by moving the engine further back so as to get a little more leverage, but if you are trying to back in a chop and the engine is popping out of the water more, you'll probably have a net loss.
> 
> When sailing, if the engine is in the water, and you leave the engine in neutral so the propeller can spin freely, and as long as the engine is placed on the boat's center line and not turned away from the centerline (acting like an supplemental rudder), I would not expect that you would get any difference in weather helm due to the engine. But if you were off center on the mount just a little, or the engine was turned away from center line, or the prop was locked in gear (the shape of the prop when not turning might also act as a supplemental rudder, requiring more tiller force to offset), then you could get weather helm. Some might say letting the prop spin freely is hard on the gearing....perhaps so, but Yanmar has sent out a bulletin on my engine saying that it's better to let the prop free wheel, otherwise there might be some transmission damage resulting when in gear while sailing with engine not running.


Thanks, NCC320. As you can see, the position of the cutout for the motor is slightly off center, so the motor is necessarily mounted a bit off center.

https://picasaweb.google.com/gkoski...anAndStephensSailmaster22#5339787829281887074

https://picasaweb.google.com/gkoski...anAndStephensSailmaster22#5358507252596697266

https://picasaweb.google.com/gkoski...anAndStephensSailmaster22#5358507247976402370

AS you suggest, this does likely cause the 'supplemental rudder effect, both by sticking the shaft down into the water and by disrupting the laminar flow over the rudder, especially at low boat speed in light air (when it is most noticable).

As I listen to my 'advisers' here, I'm inclined to see if I can mount th motor any closer to the centerline, possible change the prop, and perhaps most importantly, go out a practice, practice and practice some more on backing the boat. Obviously she does better with some way on. Besides, mostly I just sail in and out of the slip anyway, but I am most concerned about heading into strange harbors and anchorages under power where the maneuverability may be limited. Chicken, I guess...


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

George,
Got your PM, you are welcome. From looking at the pictures
I doubt that the amount of offset would cause any noticeable effect if in neutral. I don't think an outboard gearbox will be harmed by
letting the prop spin, no pumps or anything and running in a 
constant oil supply? Super restoration job, massive amount of work!!

Congratulations, Dabnis


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Other than it being a bit off center, which may or may nor make a bog difference, I would leave it as it is. Previous posters are right, why spoil the boat's good looks with an outboard hanging off the transom?

As far as reverse, nobody is real pleased with the performance of their boat in reverse. Whether they have a fin keel and separate rudder or a full keel it is still problematic. I live aboard at a hotel/marina and we get to see a real mix here when the warmer weather comes. Everything from the powerboat with twin engines and a bow thruster that has problems to the sailboat owner that has difficulty backing up predictably. From my experience (8 boats over a 40 year period) and what I have seen others do either successfully or otherwise I suggest this.

Practice backing up away from the docks, at low speed and with more throttle. Find out what your boat will do in reverse. Many owners are throttle shy and you can't expect the rudder to have much effect until the boat is moving enough to give good water flow over the rudder. Many long keel boats will only back up pulling to one side or the other. This is common to many boats of all sizes. Probally more common on long keel boats like yours, Alberg 30's and the like. If reversing is predictable, pulling the stern in one direction consistently, use it to your advantage. In circumstances where the pull is the wrong way, reverse and kick the stern around by moving forward with authority and repeating it if necessary. Remember this is a common problem, the design treatise of most boats is to move forward. not back.

Last year I was doing some electrical work on a 42' commercial troller. Very heavy boat, long keel, single engine and a very large prop. He moved the boat to another slip in the marina and it was a treat to watch him use the boat's characteristics to his advantage. There wasn't much room to work with. He reversed with a lot of throttle until his speed was up a bit, put it in neutral and watched the stern. When he was running out of room astern he turned the wheel and with about 1/2 throttle moved the bow where he wanted it and then repeated this until he was where he wanted to be. Many would have not used enough throttle and been all over the place. It helped that he is a Coast Pilot, has his Masters ticket and about 30+ years experience, a lot of it in tugs. But he never fought what the boat wanted to do, just used it to his advantage. Probably felt like a toy after the freighters and tankers he works with daily. But it was neat to watch.


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## Wallilabu (Jan 29, 2009)

Still no comments on the Mayer Motor Mount design that started this thread...going once....going twice....last chance!

The Mayers Motor Mount, Sailing, Outboard Motor Management System


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I can't imagine that structure on the stern of such a pretty boat.


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## Wallilabu (Jan 29, 2009)

Thanks, mitiempo...that seems to be the emerging consensus...greg


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## lickingcardboard (Oct 21, 2010)

Wallilabu said:


> Still no comments on the Mayer Motor Mount design that started this thread...going once....going twice....last chance!
> 
> The Mayers Motor Mount, Sailing, Outboard Motor Management System


that mount uke

it just don't look right, and on that boat, the boat wont look right.


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Two issues, I think:
1. Should you put one on the transom at all?
2. If so, which mount?

Question #1 has already been answered.
Suggest you enjoy the boat as designed.

Dabnis


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