# New sailor needs a must have check list for a future purchase of a 28-34 FT older sloop, $15K or less



## Ray Irvine (Nov 15, 2020)

Hello, 
This subject has probably been covered a thousand times so if someone posts a link to a previous discussion that would be great. 
I'm interested in getting back into sailing and I'm happy to see I can do so with out a major expenditure of upfront cash. Why are older vessels so inexpensive, compared to their new(er) siblings? Besides being all shiny etc. what's missing in the older boats? I will be sailing out of Cape Cod MA where the wind is pretty stiff most of the time and seas can kick up. Therefore I'm looking for a boat that can handle those conditions, with the ability to single hand. So, what are my "must have, or I wish I knew that features" that I should be looking for? 
Currently looking for moorings to secure for any potential purchase. 
Also, I know this will vary greatly based on location but what is the range I'd be looking at per ft. for hauling, storing wrapping etc.? What should I budget for general upkeep? Most common issues I would be dealing with? 
I currently have my eye on a 1979 34' Hunter. 
Thanks!
Ray


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Not sure I think of the Cape as having particularly harsh winds. Finding a deep enough harbor inside the Bay can be a challenge in that area. Better on the Eastern end of Buzzards. You'll want all lines lead to the cockpit for single handing.


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

+1 on having lines led aft if possible. 

Having a reliable autopilot is a must have for me also for singlehanding. Of course if there’s not one on the boat you’re looking at you can always install a new one so you know you have a reliable one.....just make sure there’s room in your offer price to cover the cost!

As for the Hunter, I think those are solid boats, but as with any boat a lot, like 99%, is going to depend on what kind of upgrades the previous owners made and how well they maintained the boat.

Other things that make single handing easy for me are having VHF mic at the helm station, jib sheet winches located far enough aft so I can tend them while I’m at the wheel, mid-ship cleat or equivalent to make docking and going through locks easier, and having a decent dodger and Bimini for shelter from rain, spray, and sun when I’m at the helm all day.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your boat search and keep us in the loop.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Ray Irvine said:


> Hello,
> ... I will be sailing out of Cape Cod MA where the wind is pretty stiff most of the time and seas can kick up. ....
> Currently looking for moorings to secure for any potential purchase.
> ...


Most MA mooring areas are controlled by the town harbormaster. Most towns in MA and for anywhere around Buzzards Bay, moorings assignments will have a lengthy waiting list, usually in terms of tens of years. So get yourself and any of your young children on the lists in places of interest. Fortunately the boatyards in some locations are sitting on a lot of moorings that they make available on a seasonal rental basis, for example in Marion Seasonal Slips and Moorings - Burr Brothers Boats, Inc. or in Cataumet Dockage & Storage - Kingman Yacht Center. Kingmans is a wonderful location, but I would chose carefully based on whether you need to drive across the Cape Cod Cana near weekends... 
:


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

Why are older boats less expensive than newer ones? Mainly, they are almost all going to need some work. They may have water intrusion that needs to be fixed. They will almost certainly need electronics upgrades. The engine may be near the end of its life. Good chance the cushions will need to be replaced. New sails needed. New standing and running rigging needed. Lots of sanding, painting, and other cosmetics.

All of these things are dependent on how well the previous owner maintained the boat, and all can drastically affect the value of a boat.

Good luck.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

The big thing at that price and in that size range is finding one that doesn't have a major issue or need lots of work. Everything else is secondary. Be flexible. You can always add the bells and whistles and do the upgrades as you go along. But if you have a major project boat on your hands, you are going to working on her rather than sailing.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Regarding new vs. used pricing: The outdoors and especially the marine environment is hard on things! UV light, corrosive salt, temperature differentials, dirt, etc. Even a well maintained boat degrades as it sits there. Pretty much everything on the outside of a boat has a service life or at least a range, and much of it is expensive. Standing rigging, running rigging, ports, winches, all those plastic bits. Gelcoat on the hull and decks oxidizes. And as most have mentioned, engines don't run forever, nor do pumps, lights, seals, electronics, and so on. It's an endless list, really.


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## JimInPB (Oct 5, 2020)

On an older boat, condition is everything. (read that first line at least 3 times, then read it again)

That aside, on the Cape, you will likely also need to consider draft & mast height, depending on where you want to go. There is a reason why those gaff rig cat boats are still popular up on the sand bar. 

One reason for the lower prices on the old boats (aside from condition) is that the newer boats often have features that have become popular, like an open transom design for easy swim access, if you are into that sort of thing. You are not likely to find that kind of feature on a boat from the 1960's. 

As for condition, prime things to have a SURVEYOR check would include cracked/rusted/brittle standing rig components, de-lamination of fiberglass, condition of the keel & rudder and water intrusion to the cores, if the deck or hull has wood inside it. 

Condition of the sail(s) and running rigging means something too, but that is easier to fix yourself without hauling the boat out.

Another consideration is keel & rudder type. The hunters I have had, were often spade rudder boats with either fin or wing keels. Those perform well, but if you find yourself sailing out around Bishop & Clerks or if you accidentally locate that one rock, inside of the rock pile off of West Denis beach (that didn't have a marker on it back in the 1970's), you may get a quick lesson in how fragile a spade rudder can be (don't ask). If you look at some of the old time classic Cape boats, like a Wianno Sr, you will find a big iron keel with a center board inside it & a keel hung rudder. These are pretty goof tolerant designs, but they do not tend to perform as well as the fin/spade designs normally do. With the firm winds that you usually get in that area, even the heavy old boats can still move pretty well. Heck, they even still race those things up there. 

Different boats have different characteristics & different weak points. Each boat you consider is really a discussion unto itself. When I look up a Hunter 34 on sailboat data dot com, they claim that the H34 was first made in 1983, so if the one you are looking at is a 1979, you might want to confirm exactly what it is that you are looking at & then ask around about that specific boat.


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## Degas (Nov 15, 2010)

Ray Irvine said:


> Why are older vessels so inexpensive, compared to their new(er) siblings? Besides being all shiny etc. what's missing in the older boats?


This is the story that keeps MBAs employed: Supply vs demand and the curve of sailboat manufacturing from 1970 to 2020. That curve skyrockets in the first 2 decades and plummets in the most recent 2 decades.

Now here's the story that helps the rest of us: Sellers adjust their prices based on the competition, the cost of ownership, the market tier they're selling in, and so on. Examples: A new boat seller has fewer competitors than a used boat seller. A new boat owner, hopefully, doesn't need new sails or deck repairs.

Still, a resourceful and focused owner can squeeze many more decades of useful happiness out of these older boats.



Ray Irvine said:


> What should I budget for general upkeep? Most common issues I would be dealing with?


My rule of thumb: budget 10% of the purchase price for maintenance, the stuff that keeps the boat safe and usable. After that, I limit my spending to another 10% for upgrades for comfort or performance.

There are lots of common issues, too many to list here. It depends on the manufacturer, age, where she was sailed, and, worst of all, by far, previous owners. (All POs are idiots. (You are the next PO.))

You can get a list of specific issues and save yourself some time, money, and maybe even from heartbreak, by hiring a surveyor.

Good luck and fair winds.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Your budget goes a lot farther in the lower end of your size range. Maintenance and slip costs fall quite a bit too.

You should make a list of priorities that will be unique to your sailing area and planned use of the boat (e.g. do you want shoal draft, are you height limited due to bridges, do you need to stand up in the cabin, do you want good engine access). There's no firm list. Then make a list of deal-breakers - projects you don't want to take on - these are usually things like wet decks, engine replacement. A third list to indicate upgrades you are willing to do yourself - installing single-handing features like an autopilot, lazy jacks should be on that list. Then find set of used boats that fit your criteria and check them out.


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