# New to sailing and looking to do some marina liveaboard. HI! :D



## cazwell220 (Apr 11, 2012)

Hi everyone... I feel like I know so many of you already from all the obsessive reading I have been doing.

Anyway... I just wanted to introduce myself and mention what I'm doing and why for whoever might care... and maybe even for some that don't 

I've never really been one for the "institution" as I'm finding out many people here share the same disdain. I'm a minimalist and find that my living situation is far more than I actually need. I'm currently living in Hermosa Beach next to King Harbor in a big 3 story house with 3 other roommates and getting along fine enough money wise. I started a computer repair company and I'm waiting tables for when money is light. I pay about $950 a month for the convenience of living 1 block away from the beach which I LOVE. I am a big fan of playing some competitive beach volleyball and enjoy the people and beauty of the beach lifestyle. However... I kept feeling like I was paying too much and felt that a financially smarter person would come up with a better plan.

So I started looking into urban camping as a way to save money. It's called urban camping or "stealth parking" typically using a van of some sort. Really it's just illegally parking and living in your vehicle in residential and commercial areas without getting caught. I learned how doable it would be and how you could get off the grid while saving lots of money, but I really wasn't convinced that the connotation was all that comfortable. It felt more like being homeless than stepping closer to freedom and independence.

Ultimately in my search I read an article about someone living in their boat and detailing how it worked for them. They mentioned how they paid $300 / mo to the marina for the slip and a bit more for utilities and maintenance. Needless to say... I was instantly intrigued to the point of researching every possibility ... and in 1 week... here I am... looking for a sailboat! lol

I feel like after a year of paying rent for a nice room 1 block from the beach, in the end... all I will have to show is another rent check I need to make out. Sure there are lots of things I can do in a month, like learn to sail even, but in the end... it's a TON of money that is going to someone else and THEIR personal freedom, not mine. If I buy a boat and live on it in the marina... at the end of a year, not only will I have saved a ton of money, gotten over my fear as a land dweller and shed myself of so many unnecessary things, but I will also have learned to sail... met a whole new community of great people... and I will also own a boat! That and the opportunity for adventure unlike an apartment or room could ever give me. 

My plan... is to look at a bunch of old boats that have a good hull, good clean keel bolts, a deck that keeps the living quarters dry and good sails and are cheap. I don't care much about the "electronics" or anything except the important systems. And I certainly don't care about refitting and creating a huge project. My thoughts are... if I get the boat super cheap... live on it for a year... learn a bunch of things... keep it clean and do the basic maintenance... I can sell it for much the same price I buy it for and be well on my way to at least UNDERSTANDING what my dream boat would even be!!

Anyway... TLDR;
I want to save a bunch of money and live simple. I read about living on a boat and thought it would be a good thing to try. Looking for a boat that's in good condition for super cheap that I can sell in a year or so and then buy a better one.

I'm Mark btw... Have a great day!!


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

I think you are on the right track, but remember that boats are generally a depreciating asset and require alot of work in upkeep and maintenance. Cheap boats being the worst of those to buy for the main reason that they will require the most work. 

You sound like you have the right expectations so go for it.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Hi Mark.

You have a lot of expectations and I wish you the best of luck. Personally, I'm not sure how living on a boat gives you anything more than the illusion of getting away from the "establishment". You still have to pay taxes, rent (slip or mooring fees), insurance and you end up with a much longer walk to the bathroom. You trade rules of the land for rules of the water. Also, it isn't like you can grow your own food and produce enough electricity to live off the grid.

It sounds like you have the personality to appreciate sailing (_sailing_ - not just living on a boat) but that's not your primary or even secondary reason for buying a sailboat. I hope someday you discover that part of it.


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## cazwell220 (Apr 11, 2012)

DRFerron said:


> Hi Mark.
> 
> You have a lot of expectations and I wish you the best of luck. Personally, I'm not sure how living on a boat gives you anything more than the illusion of getting away from the "establishment". You still have to pay taxes, rent (slip or mooring fees), insurance and you end up with a much longer walk to the bathroom. You trade rules of the land for rules of the water. Also, it isn't like you can grow your own food and produce enough electricity to live off the grid.
> 
> It sounds like you have the personality to appreciate sailing (_sailing_ - not just living on a boat) but that's not your primary or even secondary reason for buying a sailboat. I hope someday you discover that part of it.


Hiya DRFerron ... Nice to meet you... I appreciate the perspective and reality check. True... my first motivation is to save money. I've looked up insurance and slip fees. They are proving to be much more affordabole than renting my current place. I am also looking forward to learning to sail and I want to cruise eventually. Ill start with going to Catalina.

Ill update as I go... but the goal is to sacrifice a bit now for a better future later!

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## cazwell220 (Apr 11, 2012)

LandLocked66c said:


> I think you are on the right track, but remember that boats are generally a depreciating asset and require alot of work in upkeep and maintenance. Cheap boats being the worst of those to buy for the main reason that they will require the most work.
> 
> You sound like you have the right expectations so go for it.


Hiya LandLocked... I am looking for a boat that someone put their heart and soul into and now has no choice but to sell it. I'm looking to put about $2-3k into a purchase and then learn and do the basic maintenance. Even if I have to scrape the boat myself... I plan on learning and saving for a future. I want to retire early ... maybe Ecuador or the Philippines... modest, but happy life is all I'm after.

Have a great day!

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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

$2-3K is a little on the low side. Take a look at this thread: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...ted/85769-10-000-blue-water-capable-boat.html

If your goal is cruising you might want to divide your goal into two boats or plan on spending a *lot* of money fixing up a project boat, more money than you think it will take.


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## cazwell220 (Apr 11, 2012)

DRFerron said:


> $2-3K is a little on the low side. Take a look at this thread: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...ted/85769-10-000-blue-water-capable-boat.html
> 
> If your goal is cruising you might want to divide your goal into two boats or plan on spending a *lot* of money fixing up a project boat, more money than you think it will take.


I'm not trying to fool myself... I have already seen quite a few very decent boats in the $3k range... here is one on CL that is going for $2700
25' Coronado Sailboat- RENOVATED, READY TO SAIL It's got a lot of upgrades... more than I need for certain.

Also... my plan is definitely to upgrade to a bigger boat later on. The first one will be a primarily liveaboard boat at the marina. Small... cheap... easy to maintain type boat. I will learn about sailing and learn about maintenance and repairs and the sailboat lifestyle along with getting to know people in the sailing community. I'm thinking a year... maybe 2 at the most. I'm hoping to get one that can make it to Catalina here and there even if I'm feeling brave 

Then I plan on selling the boat for close to what I bought it for... I figure this will be doable since I'm looking to buy a good solid boat for the cheapest amount possible now. So getting my money back from it in a year shouldn't be too hard... even if I do take a couple $100 bath on it... no biggie.

By then I will know more about what I want.. and I will get a bigger boat to do the cruising on... I feel like I might even build a boat!! It sounds so awesome... I saw a catamaran build called Gypsy by Woods... looks amazing!! But that's way way off on the horizon 

Either way... I'm PUMPED about this little life experiment... and the possibility it holds for sailing wherever... whenever I want!! I'm sure the reality will hit me in waves as well... but I'm pretty adaptable and will do my best to take it in stride.

Thank you for sharing your feeling and experience with me. I will surely be taking notes the whole way!!


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

If us grumpy old farts can't dampen your enthusiasm, you're in a good place.


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## MobiusALilBitTwisted (Jun 25, 2007)

cazwell220 said:


> I'm not trying to fool myself..
> 25' Coronado Sailboat- RENOVATED, READY TO SAIL It's got a lot of upgrades... more than I need for certain.


Unless your less then 5' that boat will make you MAD in 2 week as a live aboard.:laugher:laugher


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

MobiusALilBitTwisted said:


> Unless your less then 5' that boat will make you MAD in 2 week as a live aboard.:laugher:laugher


I looked at the ad. It said nothing about livaboard amenities. Does it have a head? Shower? Hot water? Refrigerated ice box? Cooking equipment? Since I'm not familiar with the area, maybe it doesn't need any kind of heating or cooling.
Only you can decide what kind of livaboard amenities are a must for you. Once you make that decision, then you can look for boats.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

cazwell220 said:


> I'm not trying to fool myself... I have already seen quite a few very decent boats in the $3k range... here is one on CL that is going for $2700
> 25' Coronado Sailboat- RENOVATED, READY TO SAIL It's got a lot of upgrades... more than I need for certain.


You can't get a good feel for a boat in a picture. It's more than just what you can see. It's what you *can't* see that might sink you. Is there softness in the deck (might be rot)? In what shape is the engine? The rigging? The sails? The electrical system?...it goes on. Recommend that you look through the recommended books thread and dust off your library card.


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## cazwell220 (Apr 11, 2012)

MobiusALilBitTwisted said:


> Unless your less then 5' that boat will make you MAD in 2 week as a live aboard.:laugher:laugher


Well... I'm 6'4" ... and yeah its a lil low... but I'm kind of a homebody so sometimes I need some extra motivation to get out and enjoy the sunshine. I will be sitting and studying or sleeping for the most part. I'm sure it's a bit too short, but I'm willing to sacrifice for a bigger goal.

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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

cazwell220 said:


> I'm sure it's a bit too short, but I'm willing to sacrifice for a bigger goal.


Celibacy is sacrifice. Stuffing a person your size into that boat is just dumb.


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## cazwell220 (Apr 11, 2012)

chuck53 said:


> I looked at the ad. It said nothing about livaboard amenities. Does it have a head? Shower? Hot water? Refrigerated ice box? Cooking equipment? Since I'm not familiar with the area, maybe it doesn't need any kind of heating or cooling.
> Only you can decide what kind of livaboard amenities are a must for you. Once you make that decision, then you can look for boats.


The Marina has showers and bathroom... certainly a sacrifice to not have then onboard. I can make due with those things for awhile... it will certainly make me appreciate it more when I do get it. Im looking at it tomorrow in person and will video it.

I'm not in a hurry and will take my time looking to give the right boat.

I do appreciate your suggestions. But when you are limited on cash... you make exceptions and learn to be lean. It helps that I have much bigger goals in the future! At least that's what I think now haha

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## cazwell220 (Apr 11, 2012)

DRFerron said:


> Celibacy is sacrifice. Stuffing a person your size into that boat is just dumb.


Hmmm... I'm not sure what to do except wait for a bigger boat. But I know a bigger boat is more expensive. If I offer $2200 or so... and hate it... I can sell it while looking for a new one without losing much.

Plus I have friends around if I need a place to sleep in between. Ill make sure I leave myself some outs in case it is unbearable.

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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Look for maritime museums. They sometimes have auctions of sail-ready boats that are inexpensive. Also, maritime colleges and schools. People donate boats they can't sell or get a better deduction than the money they'd get selling them and the organizations auction them off. Last year a local museum auctioned a 30 foot Hunter for about $5K.


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## cazwell220 (Apr 11, 2012)

DRFerron said:


> Look for maritime museums. They sometimes have auctions of sail-ready boats that are inexpensive. Also, maritime colleges and schools. People donate boats they can't sell or get a better deduction than the money they'd get selling them and the organizations auction them off. Last year a local museum auctioned a 30 foot Hunter for about $5K.


I did hear about boats that have been donated and are being sold on the cheap for that reason.

Ideally I would love to get a 30', but I know the slip fees go up for those as well as maintenance and insurance, etc. I am keeping my eye and ears open for amazing deals. If a 30 to 33 comes along that is too good to pass up... then Id be willing to pull the trigger.

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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

cazwell220 said:


> The Marina has showers and bathroom... certainly a sacrifice to not have then onboard. I can make due with those things for awhile... it will certainly make me appreciate it more when I do get it. Im looking at it tomorrow in person and will video it.
> 
> I do appreciate your suggestions. But when you are limited on cash... you make exceptions and learn to be lean. It helps that I have much bigger goals in the future! At least that's what I think now haha
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


OK, yes, the marina has showers and bathrooms but you still didn't address the issue of cooking and storage of food. If you don't have both, then you are eating out a lot and since you are on a limited budget, you'll find real quick, that ain't going to work.

No one here is trying to rain on your parade. There's a lot of sailing/boating knowledge to be found here on this forum and we're just trying to make you see the big picture and see all the many details you need to figure out before buying a boat for any purpose.

When you find a boat, has anyone mentioned getting a survey before buying? That's going to run you about $4-500 and if you get it hauled to check the bottom (as you should) that's going to add another couple hundred to the bill.
Don't even think about buying a boat without a survey.


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## cazwell220 (Apr 11, 2012)

I work part time at a restaurant which helps to save $ a lil when it comes to eating out... The Marina is also very close to grocery stores and I can cook a bit at friends houses if a simple camping burner wont cut it. Having said that, I do want a stove and an ice box... and that will def be something I'm looking for.

About the survey... I feel like a $400 survey for a $2-3k boat is a bit over-kill... I'm sure it's NOT of course, but for my purposes out the gate it might be... Ive met a couple of very experienced sailors who are willing to give me their opinions before I make an offer. I think that would be sufficient for a boat I may never take out of the Marina. 

If the boat is very cheap (diamond in the rough, not busted up and broken) and doesn't take on water or leak... that's a pretty good start. I'm sure mistakes will be made in my first go round, but in a year I should be able to save a bunch of money... and know without a doubt if I want to invest in a bigger boat... or scrap the whole idea and buy a small house in Ecuador or some other place  

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## cazwell220 (Apr 11, 2012)

Also... please know... I appreciate every angle, suggestion, caution, warning and criticism.... this is a new and completely unexplored world to me. I am excited... and I admit I am seeing all the positives and the negatives are taking a back seat to the excitement. But I'm largely a realist and don't just "jump" without analyzing every nook and cranny... but I don't want to paralyze myself with research... I WANT to climb this mountain, rather than always stopping half way because I see another that looks better. 

Please... unserstand... I know I don't know a dang thing that is based in reality. Its fantasy right now... bur I want to do it. I'm unencumbered right now and I honestly appreciate every bit of advice you are all giving me... and the countless other threads I have read and take heed of. 

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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

cazwell220 said:


> About the survey... I feel like a $400 survey for a $2-3k boat is a bit over-kill... I'm sure it's NOT of course, but for my purposes out the gate it might be... Ive met a couple of very experienced sailors who are willing to give me their opinions before I make an offer. I think that would be sufficient for a boat I may never take out of the Marina.


I paid $2300 for my first boat with trailer. I didn't have a survey done (didn't even know what a survey was at the time) but I did have a knowledgeable sailing friend climb in and let me know if he thought the boat would at least float. I bought it knowing I wanted a project boat. So you're on the right track. BUT, I wasn't intending to use the boat as my primary residence, either. It would really suck if your house sank.

Not saying that you should get a survey, although I'm at the top of the heap waving my flag for doing so, but at least get someone with more than a passing knowledge of boats to look at it.

Next boat: definitely.

Also, while I'm thinking of that old boat. If you find a boat that allows the waste to discharge overboard, you have to get the thru hull either glassed over or have a internal tank installed with a lock on the valve so that there's no way to discharge overboard. Illegal and you can get fined. Even on my 22 footer it had a head (no privacy but a head nonetheless) and I pulled it out completely, glassed the thru hull and bought a porta potty.


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## cazwell220 (Apr 11, 2012)

Good advice... I will def find out what the head situation is. Thank you for the heads up! Pun not intended. 

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## Richard61 (Mar 31, 2012)

There are dreamers and there are do'ers. You sound like a do'er. I am going down the same road but being in a cold water area I will live aboard summers only. Found a little PY26 at a charity auction that I'm reading to launch as soon as the marina opens in a few weeks. Good Luck Richard


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## cazwell220 (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks Richard! Went and looked at the 25' Coronado today. It is a nice boat... she was def sailable ... but I just wasn't feeling it completely. So the search and waiting continues. 

Good luck to you too!

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## Richard61 (Mar 31, 2012)

I know from experance when you see the right boat she will speak to you. I went to a charity yard to look at a Catalina 27 And the PY26 spoke to me. It took anouther 6 weeks to pull the triger but it was the boat that chose me not the other way arround. Good luck with your hunt. Richard, proud owner of my 1979 PY26 "Ruth Ann"


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

I like this guy.

Caz, when I was between wives, I lived aboard a 35' Chris-Craft Sea Skiff. It floated, mostly, the engines ran, somewhat, the slip was paid for for the first season, and it was cheaper than first and last on an apartment, but still cost almost all the cash I had at the time.
I didn't regret it then, and I don't regret it now.

Dock Six Chronicles: Living Aboard, Philosothinking

The upside to being broke in a marina is that at least you are broke in a nice neighbourhood. Being broke on land means living in a neighbourhood where everybody else is broke too, and that can, and will, kill one's spirit real quick.

Before you go boat shopping, print out the "Inspection Trip Tips" sticky, and don't be afraid to get dirty. Pull the floor boards to see the bilge, pump the head, do a visual on the engine and the transmission dipstick, and poke, prod, and peer into every nook and cranny and part.


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