# Life Choice Crisis - Call for Adages & Wisdom



## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

So I have a dream similar to many others to cruise with the family. I have a belief that the best time to this is while my boy's ages are at some where between the ages of 6 and 12. My boys are 4 and 6 now so I see the window as rapidly approaching and also see the opportunity having a very limited time window as time seems to FLY by.

We have a cruising boat already. We have done a shake down cruise with the family and I have gone with some adult friends and the experiences have been quite wonderful. The boat needs some work but is by no means a project boat. Financially we are not independently wealthy but have realized some of our equity out of our home into a boat. I am working full time and we bought the boat by down sizing our house a couple of years ago.

Now the big dilemma: My career is high gear and I am in my early 40s, I have a good job with a pension and benefits. I have been doing well and stand to be promoted at some point in the next few years if I keep working and focused on self improvement and job success. But there is also only one small window to cruise with the kids. I am familiar with the adages:
'you'll regret the things you didn't do more than the ones you did' and 'go now'

I do absolutely love sailing and luckily we thrive in our local fresh water lake sailing scene as weekend warriors. I grew up doing quite a bit of lake sailing and we put in many days of sailing a year as a family on the lake we live near.

Regarding ocean sailing, although it is filled with allure and intrigue for me, it is also a source of unease as I have only about 5 weeks of ocean sailing under my belt so far. Additionally, although I am fairly good with boat repairs and mechanically inclined, the prospects of spending time and money fixing our older boat while cruising full time is another source of anxiety.

My wife has been hugely supportive which is an incredible blessing. Although she has gotten quite sea sick on a number of occasions she has continued on with sailing and manages the sea sickness with good medication and easing into the sailing on our trips. She also seems to be getting over the sea sickness to a degree, although we will always have to manage it ! She rarely gets sea sick on the lake at all now.

The main source of anxiety for me is the financial and career impact. I think we can pull it off financially, but it is a gamble though if I give up my current job. Alternatively we could just spend four weeks a year cruising on the ocean, which is what we will do this year again without quitting my job. 

The bottom line is that I have had a dream to cruise. My vision of parenting also includes a time spent do something memorable and exciting that my kids will remember for the rest of there lives and enjoying them one on one while they want to be with there dad. I too want look back at my time as a parent and say we did something truly special as a family.

I know there are no easy answers but I would welcome any inspiring life choice stories or adages or advice like: 'go now' or possibly contary advice 'save, pay off your house, save for retirement, go later.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I would recommend you go now. If you wait, you may end up regretting it. There was one sailor I know of who spent years prepping his boat, and two weeks before he and his significant other were to leave for a four-year cruise, he had a massive heart attack and died. You don't know what the future holds... and the economy isn't in the greatest of shape, so chances are pretty good that when you get back it will be a better place to job hunt again... 

Your boys are at the age where they will learn a lot by going cruising, yet young enough to be able to adapt to shore life again when you get back. Once they are teens, it will be much more difficult to go cruising... 

Be aware that once you are out there....coming back doesn't always end up being a viable option. Freedom, once tasted, is hard to give up.


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## badsanta (Oct 16, 2006)

Do you have to go for ever? anyway you could take a month off at a time each year? They would still love it.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

On the one hand, I'm guessing that your job is valuable to you because it enables you to enrich your life and the lives of the people you care about in precisely the manner you're currently contemplating. You may want to ask yourself, "Wait a sec, if I'm not taking my family cruising, what's the point of this job?" If you think that the action that will maximize your family's happiness is switching to long-term cruising, then you should grab at whatever opportunity you see to get started. Your current job is just a means to that end.

On the other hand, you take your family sailing on the ocean every year for four months? If my parents did that when I was a kid, I guarantee I would look back on those trips and remember them as special times spent with family. As it turns out, they did different (less expensive) things with my brother and me that I remember quite fondly. Point is, it sounds like you think your family is missing out on its best years, when really they're having great times and collecting some long-lasting memories.

Sailors like to remind you that you'll regret the things you don't do. They are also notorious for sticking to what has worked reliably, and it sounds like your current lifestyle is working out well for you.

Also, you haven't said whether or not your enjoy your job. That would be a big factor for me.


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## kairetu (Oct 6, 2009)

I think you should wait and do some longer passages with your boat and family to build experience and confidence. If there is a dilemma or a dramatic choice, it's probably best to wait until the dynamic changes. When the decision is no longer difficult, it's the right time to go. A bit like the difference between heading to somewhere or heading for somewhere. In my experience, the notion of a 'window of opportunity' is somewhat fluid when cruising. There will be no knashing of teeth if you wait - as long as you continue to keep your eyes on the prize - and doing longer passages in the interim will build your cruising capacity.


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## kairetu (Oct 6, 2009)

I think you should wait and do some longer passages with your boat and family to build experience and confidence. If there is a dilemma or a dramatic choice, it's probably best to wait until the dynamic changes. When the decision is no longer difficult, it's the right time to go. A bit like the difference between heading to somewhere or heading for somewhere. There will be no knashing of teeth if you wait - as long as you continue to keep your eyes on the prize - and doing longer passages in the interim will build capacity.


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## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

I can see both sides of this and have some experience with my now 19 year old son. First, your window is correct. After about 12, it's all about their friends and time spent with parents is a drag. The problem I have is that you have only talked about *your* dream. I'm not hearing that the family really shares your dream. Having been there, I can tell you that you don't need to necessarily do something grand to make great memories with your kids. When my boy was about 8, we started taking annual father-son trips to Vegas every summer. We'd get a suite at the Mirage and spend the week playing in the pool, seeing the sights, seeing kid-friendly shows like magicians, etc and just hanging out with each other. We had a great time and we *both* looked forward to it every year. If I were you, I'd check in and see what *their* dreams might be. It would be a shame if you spent their college money to go cruising only to have them one day say, "Gee Dad, I wish we could have gone to baseball camp together".

Mike


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## cruisingdream (Feb 7, 2007)

ASK YOURSELF:
do you want memories of work -or- memories of cruising with your family


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

You will never pay off your house. You will never save enough for retirement. That big career payoff will always be two years away. Your kids will always hate you, until they turn 40 and realize just how hard it is. Your spouse will always be diligently trying to enjoy what you do. Nothing ever works out the way you (I) want it to. The only solution is to just do it and be happy... whatever that is - I don't know either. I do know it is none of the above, nor is it a Harley, or Ferrari, or.....

I do now fully believe it is cruising on a sailboat. I do not expect to be "let down" again. It could, after all, be my last chance. Try not to use up all of yours.


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

To answer some of the questions:Adam: I love my job most of the time. I have been lucky enough to create my position and my role in the organization I work in, which I generally find extremely gratifying. I get to be a leader which I love. Beyond that I live in a great community that I love and my life now is absolutely wonderful and blessed.
(we can come back to our community, which we very likely will, we would keep our house.)

Secondly, MikeInLA, yes, it is MY dream, but my kids have been raised on boats all there lives (weekends). And they have also been raised with the idea that we will go cruising. They love to fish, swim and play on the beach. The dream of scuba diving and surfing is magic to them. So I think they are IN on the idea (remember they are 4 and 6 - they want to do everything I (there dad) does from painting to cooking from the minute I get up to their last waking minute...this will end someday soon and I want to honour this magic time as a parent...thus the urgency to go SOON.) 

My wife, she never wanted to be on a boat at first but slowly over the years she has grown more and more fond of the idea (she does love to travel.) We had an offer from someone very recently to buy our cruising boat, located down south, out of the blue. I offered the idea to my wife to sell it...she couldn't understand why on earth I would even consider selling. I explained that the cruising dream is a huge gamble and massive committment (also I really value my career and we have another small cruising boat here on the lake).

Selling the big boat would provide an opportunity to backout of the family cruising idea and maybe we would charter a boat in the BVI a couple of couple times. (Mind you I did tell her I would very very likely buy another 2nd boat, albiet smaller within a year or two and thought of me traveling to look a boats and hours and hours surfing yachtporn influenced her decision) She said - LETS KEEP THE BOAT. She helped pick the boat and she likes the roominess of it, I would be happy on something smaller and simpler. She appreciates the hominess of the BIG boat (46 feet.)


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

nuffofTexas: the comment the next big promotion at work does always seem to be two years away....how true.

here is one adage I think is true: 'when one doors closes another door opens'


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

GreatWhite said:


> nuffofTexas: the comment the next big promotion at work does always seem to be two years away....how true.
> 
> here is one adage I think is true: 'when one doors closes another door opens'


Yep! Don't forget this - I'm a very fit guy. Almost always worked out. Can run 10 miles - AT ALTITUDE! I had a massive coronary 2 weeks after my 50th birthday. 100% blockage of the LAD. They lost me twice. Hello! If I was not less than 5 miles from Tucson Heart Hospital I would not be here today. I'm definitely going sailing tomorrow... whenever that is.


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

Dog, thank you. I think your story is very inspiring. We can't take our money and houses to the grave. Family time and a life lived is something I value too!

Kairetu, yes good point. That is why I plan to do the 4 week trip with the family this year. More experience, more shaking down the boat…and throw in knocking off some identified needed upgrades to the boat to get it ready for cruising. 

Leaving the boat sitting and rotting away is not an option for me. S#%t or get off the pot as far as I am concerned!


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

Thanks for sharing the story Roger...I truly hope you can get out sailing tomorrow...make your way to dock!


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## WinterRiver (Oct 20, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Your boys are at the age where they will learn a lot by going cruising, yet young enough to be able to adapt to shore life again when you get back. Once they are teens, it will be much more difficult to go cruising...


I concur. We're dealing with this right now. We have the boat, we would love to sail south. It's the teenager who is completely against anything related to the boat. The preteen would go with us in a minute.


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## NCountry (May 25, 2006)

Guess I'm lucky. My 19 year old college student is working on ways to attend school and cruise. He won't be with us full time but he'll spend every moment he can. His girlfriend is from Sweden. Guess we'll go across the pond pretty quick after we leave.
My 18 year old is just about to finish high school. Wants to get a tech ticket in welding. He informs me that he can work anywhere in the world if he can weld. Sounds like a great way to make a little cash here and there while cruising.
Then 10 year old step son......I'll fly back and see my dad sometime, where we going first.
The 2 year old daughter.......her mom was pulling sails 2 weeks before she was born. We were back on the boat a month after the birth. She walks with a tilt on land. I'm thinking she's ready.
Mom....is an RN. Taking a marine medical course next summer. First time she sailed with me we got caught by a gust and the boat went to 45 degrees. Looked up to where she set on the high side. She had a giant smile on her face so I married her.
Hired my mother-in-law to run my business's (2) while we're gone. She's really stepped up and everything is growing. Dang!
Bigger, blue water cruiser will be purchased next summer. Already shopping and putting the 30 footer on the market. (wanna buy a 1980 Islander with everything on it?)
Just start planning and set a date. That's what we're doing and as soon as we announced when we were leaving things started coming together!


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## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

Really you have to make a decision between A, and B, or perhaps some compromise. Talking it over can help. Probably by reducing anxiety, or possibly by a reality check. Ultimately though the choice is between the costs and benefits of one versus the other, and one has to accept that there are losses of the benefits of the unchosen one, and costs of the chosen one. In the long run who knows what will happen or would have happened if the alternative had been chosen? The paths are different not necessarily better just different.
A problem is that the cruising path is a fantasy for many. Probably most don't make it, and most of those who do end up doing it for a shorter time than they thought. Some take to it like a duck to water. Perhaps you might want to explore the reality of cruising a bit more, before you make a choice. Kinda like taking a woman on a date or two before marrying her.


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

NCountry, sounds like you've got the right idea! You've obviously done something right!

There was a 18 year old teenager in our neighbourhood who just died of an OD, I didn't know him personally but friends with teenages knew this kid. Seeing how consistently kids who get to the teenage years are lost to the pack of peers is extremely frightening to me. God forbid if one of my kids was off track in his teenage years, if the connection isn't as strong as 5200 by that point I know there won't be a thing I could do about it.

Taking the time be with my kids in a concentrated way soon (cruising) will help to build a connection which I hope to be the foundation to work through the teenage years. I have met some AMAZING kids who grew up as cruisers that I find it totally inspiring. To meet and read stories of the kids who love and appreciate there parents as learned through a life cruising in a small spacing relying on one another.

Of course it doesn't have to be sailing but we heck we're sailors now (partially by virtue of this obsession that has stuck with me for the past few years that grows stronger by the day , with every voyage, even everytime a boat breaks and we get through it and learn something! and for my family for being by my side through this grand adventure.)


NCountry- yes I agree...this winter we will be doing a second four week cruise on the boat as a family...seeing how WE do... tasting the waters as it were AND shaking the boat down


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## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

GreatWhite said:


> Secondly, MikeInLA, yes, it is MY dream, but my kids have been raised on boats all there lives (weekends). And they have also been raised with the idea that we will go cruising. They love to fish, swim and play on the beach. The dream of scuba diving and surfing is magic to them. So I think they are IN on the idea (remember they are 4 and 6 - they want to do everything I (there dad) does from painting to cooking from the minute I get up to their last waking minute...this will end someday soon and I want to honour this magic time as a parent...thus the urgency to go SOON.)


'Nuff said for me. If they're in, I'm in. That was my only question. Enjoy!

Mike


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## leland515 (Sep 26, 2009)

I see everyone here posting from your perspective, and I simply cannot do that. I have no career or mortgage. Instead, I'll post from the perspective of your children. 
I think if you can do it, you should. If my parents had raised me on the water, I know I would have a lot better memories than I do now. Arcades, Christmases, family walks, and the dinner table.. those memories all pale in comparison to those that could have been. Learning about the world first hand, seeing all that you can see, enjoying a laid back lifestyle with the family, while having an intense sense of freedom inside of you. 
Those are the memories I wish I had. 
I hope you make the right choice.


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## nailbunnySPU (Apr 8, 2009)

So let me get this straight.

You've got a big-ass boat near about ready to go, kids that are chomping at the bit to go, a wife that's ok with it and a pension to boot? Sounds to me that the work is behind you and all you have left to make are excuses.

You could sneak some pretty wild adventures in your vacation time, or you could stretch your resources out in some warm paradise with a generous exchange rate. It's all quality of life, what'll add more, cash or adventure?

Like all these morbid posters are insisting, you could keel over at any minute. Much better to have a heroic death at sea!

In the words of Tallahassee from Zombieland,
"Time to nut up or shut up!"


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## aerie (Jul 14, 2000)

Definitely go now. A friend of mine did just what you are dreaming of doing after his wife was diagnosed with melanoma. They bought a boat, sold their business, rented their house and set off on a four-year circumnavigation learning how to sail, navigate, cruise along the way. Less than 2 years after they returned home, his wife died of melanoma. You can read about their life-changing experiences in the book his wife wrote "the Voyage of the Northern Magic" or explore their website at intro

You will come back a different person and your current career may no longer have meaning for you. I can remember an experience I had as a teen, walking through a cave with my mother when I commented that life was like this cave. We can only see the area illuminated right in front of us, the future is still in the dark. Now I believe we create our future by the choices we make today. No choice is a wrong choice, it's just a choice.

Go for your dream.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

In response to "my job has all these great qualities that I love" I am going to stick with my "Your life ain't broke, so stop trying to fix it," adage


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Go soon, but make sure your wife is TOTALLY onboard (not just a metaphor).

This means a lot of practical stuff, like having her crew on her own on deliveries, etc., having her handle EVERY ASPECT of taking out "your" boat, and so on.

She'll be standing watches alone, and so she'll have to know this stuff, because you can't be permanently on watch.

While she's doing this (and taking nav courses, basic medical training, etc.), you can be taking diesel maintenance, sailmaker, electronics and any other type of training in which you're deficit or need refreshing.

Your kids can get into Optimist/420 training, too. Get them used to the idea of being crew, not passengers.

Me (and you can read my blog as I am doing this) and my wife have deferred going until our kid is 10/11 because frankly, he can help more and also we feel that a few years in the public school system will prepare him in his study habits for tasking of continuing his education aboard.

Also, he'll get two more summers of sail training. This is not to be sneered at.

Lastly, we need time to renovate the house into two large flats so that we can defer the cost of diesel while we are gone several years.

But in principle, I approve of going sooner than later. Frankly, I doubt the seas will be the same in 20 years (when most people go, at retirement), and I do not think it will be as easy on a political basis to go to various interesting places as it is today...which would cut into the pleasure of cruising somewhat.


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

Good points Valiente, thank you. 

Regarding Adams comments though we get into the real philosophical debate:

If cruising is an antidote to some kind of issue that has arisen in a family or a person's day to day life (Examples of a 'issue' or 'need' might be a retirement, boredom, death of family member, sickness, divorce so one 'runs away' and creates a new meaningful life cruising.)
then, yes one should do what would make this dream happen and do the following:

-realistic financial plan
-training/experience
-reading
-knowing about boat maintenance
-knowing about the up sides as well as the down sides of cruising are
- picking the right kind of boat/trip plan/life style choice (eg simple/small vs big and lots of eqipement and conviences)
- ensure the wife (kids) are ready and get to be part of the training etc..


BUT what if someone has it all, happy family, great community, lots of lake sailing, good schools, financial stability, great friends, family, great job and career 

IS IT WRONG to leave this (likely temporarily) for a crusing experience...and risk financial stability, risk the job and career, leave the safety of a safe community, and a grounded life style to TRAVEL and cruise???


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

GreatWhite said:


> BUT what if someone has it all, happy family, great community, lots of lake sailing, good schools, financial stability, great friends, family, great job and career. IS IT WRONG to leave this (likely temporarily) for a crusing experience...and risk financial stability, risk the job and career, leave the safety of a safe community, and a grounded life style to TRAVEL and cruise???


To quote some (great?) philosopher from some distant land and time - "and THAT, my friend, is the question only YOU can answer".


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## NCountry (May 25, 2006)

and another great philosopher said -

"When you get to the end you won't regret the things you did, you'll regret the things you didn't do."


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

Life is so uncertain that you probably should do what you want to do. Who knows you may be dead in 5 years!!!! You could sink your boat and kill your whole family!!!! No one knows the future so the best advice that I can give is that if you really want to go then go. If you have reasonable doubts then maybe sail on weekends and on vacations. My kids who are now grown rarely enjoyed being on the boat. After they get 10-12 most kids would rather be around other kids. It is really about you!!!! But there will never be a perfect time to load the boat and leave the dock. Now we have grandkids that we love and want to spend some time with them.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

It's certainly not "wrong" as I don't think you'll be doing yourself or your family a disservice by cutting the docklines and heading out to sea.

My point though is, from the way you've been talking about your life, it doesn't really sound like it has the sort of "issues" you mention. So maybe instead of asking, "Is it WRONG to risk everything and go cruising?", you should consider asking, "Is it WRONG to enjoy my work, be financially stable, and take my family sailing for four weeks at a time?" Obviously not!

Everybody who's saying, "Only you can answer these questions" is right; I'm not trying to deter you from your dream, but rather, to point out that the life you're living now sounds pretty good!


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## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

Worked, retired, pension, vacations, kids off to college isn't a very good story.
Sailed off, weathered storms and pirates, caught a 1000 lb tuna, discovered treasure, and saved a 3rd world village is a much better story.


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## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

You forgot the mermaid.


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

It is so difficult to give up a known comfortable life for an unknown life. I have been gnashing my teeth all summer about quiting work to go sailing. My wife said OK and she will retire. But I keep procrastinating. It is really impossible to know if you will like the cruising lifestyle until it is experienced. Sure we like a week ot two on the boat during vacations but months at a time?? It always feels good to be home again in a clean dry bed after a long hot shower. As noted about jobs I know that if I leave for 6-12 months that I most probably can't get my job back. It is a hard choice. A comfortable well worn path or a road less traveled????


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

Robert Frost:
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that, the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
two roads diverged in a wood, and I --
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

My humble contribution to this thread is simply that it is interesting to read about married people and families and hear about their cruising dilemmas. It is all so foreign to me that I always learn a lot when reading about it.


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## cruisingmom (Dec 31, 2008)

We went cruising for a year with our 3 kids and loved it. It was a magical , life changing experience.My husband had a job again in a month, I had a job in 2 weeks upon return.I , like your wife, am not the best of sailers but loved living on a boat. One of our kids was already 13, and had the best time of her life. The 11 year old and 4 year old boys had fun too. The only problem is coming home. It gets in your blood. We are hoping for another trip before she goes to college.
However, we have friends who are lifelong sailers but never left for more than a few weeks from home base. They cruised several weeks every summer with their kids, they have a close family and great adult children and nearby grandchildren. 
Only you can decide, but I hopes this helps!


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

GreatWhite said:


> IS IT WRONG to leave this (likely temporarily) for a crusing experience...and risk financial stability, risk the job and career, leave the safety of a safe community, and a grounded life style to TRAVEL and cruise???


No, of course it's not WRONG, but it may not be RIGHT for you and your family.

Obviously, you enjoy and possess enough stability, job satisfaction and good family life to die in your office chair at 65 with a smile on your face and no regrets. It is equally clear that you have an adventuresome streak in you, or perhaps just an itch to explore and maybe push yourself out of what is perhaps an all-too-comfortable zone of familiarity.

Frankly, these are nice problems to have. I equate it to "oh, dear, my yacht is broken!" About 99% of humanity would consider that a blessing, if they could even comprehend the wealth and leisure needed to have a yacht in the first place.

So I would suggest that you not question the validity of "leaving behind" the stability, but question whether a radical simplification of your material life as is typical in long-term cruising would be enough for you.

I've already told my 8-year-old that life aboard will be measured in distance made good and amp-hours stored, and that "DVD night" will be a treat subject to power, weather and other social factors, not something enjoyed because he stowed away his bedding properly.

I've also told him that while his opportunities to develop his inner life will be many, his opportunities to goof around with other kids will be fewer, but that he may well develop friendships that last a lifetime.

I've also stressed the unique opportunities to see the world away from the tourist-approved itineraries and the Disneyfied resorts.

But I certainly haven't sugar-coated how much sheer work will be involved. He does see a two-hour schoolday as a bonus, however.

So maybe you have to ask yourself some hard questions before asking others. Just a thought.


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## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

GreatWhite said:


> Regarding ocean sailing, although it is filled with allure and intrigue for me, it is also a source of unease as I have only about 5 weeks of ocean sailing under my belt so far.


OK, I have an idea. Since the stakes are really high, is there a way that you and the family could arrange an offshore charter/trip together for a few weeks? I'm thinking that being out of sight of land for a while might give you more information about how much you and the family really like it. If daysailing is the family's only reference point, they could be in for a big surprise, either pleasant or not so much. Just a thought.

In reference to an earlier poster, this is definitely a "quality problem". "Hmmm... keep my idyllic life or swap for another idyllic life."

Mike


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

That's a good idea. Get a long charter going, preferably on a boat with some miles on it. Then you'll learn the reality: Cruising is frequently boat repair in exotic locales!

On the other hand, you'll get to have that feeling of having really _earned _your sundowner.


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## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

Security is a myth. 3 years ago I had a really good job and so did my wife. 401K, house near the bay, all the cool stuff.
She got hurt at work, bad. Ended up in a wheelchair. 3 days later I was laid off. Within 6 months my 401K was worth 60% of what it had been. Within a year my house was worth just over 1/2 what I paid. I depended on other people and in-place systems for my "security" and it all failed. I have decided to depend on myself and my family and our own skills and intelligence from now on, thank you very much. Things are better now, we've sold the wheelchair.


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

sww, good on you. It sounds like you have turned a rough situation into a better way to live. Best of luck!


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## dongreerps (May 14, 2007)

The old saw goes that life is a game, and the guy with the most toys at the end of the game wins. Wrong! It is the guy who HAS PLAYED WITH the most toys that wins!
You present yourself as between the horns with a nearly perfect present life on one horn, and an idyllic dream on the other. You then borrow trouble by forcing yourself to make a decision today that will not be implemented for 4-6 years. It is highly unlikely you will face the same circumstances in 2 years, let alone 4. If the promotion in 2 years turns out to be a bitter change, the decision will be easy. If it turns out to be better than dreamed about, demand at least three 3 week vacations every year, and take your cruise in small chunks instead of one large chunk. (which you might choke on anyway.)
Met an orthodontist with family who was cruising part time. He flew home and worked (12-14 hours a day, for 14-18 days straight), then caught the red eye to rejoin the family who had been intensively experiencing the indigenous culture. They would spend 2 or three days, then sail off to the next set of islands, moor, settle in, and off he went for another set of work. Aside from existing in a one room hovel while working, he had the best of two worlds. 
When the choice between two options is not clear, then neither is the best FOR YOU, and the decision either needs to be put off, or further information collected. Until the choice becomes clear
This forum could be of great service to you if others contributed thoughts outside the box, as well as advocating what was best FOR THEM.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Is it really a choice between two equally good things ? 

I will say it this way - a five year old could make the choice without any problems at all. Hmm, go to work every day, or sail on a boat everyday ? Wow that is a really hard choice isn't it. 

I understand the pull in both directions, truly, but I wonder if it is really a pull in two directions because of the actual desire to be in both places at the same time. Put it another way, if you had all the money you could reasonably want, would the choice still be hard to make, would you still be wishing you were sitting there at home and going to work everyday because its so much fun ?

Maybe the real choice isn't between two really great things, but rather on the one hand a life that has a lot of security, predictability, creature comfort, etc, and on the other hand a life that is filled with fun and excitement, but doesn't have all the other things. If so then I don't really think the decision is between two really great things as much as it is a decision about whether the one really great thing is worth the risk.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I think the reason the decision to leave on a boat would be so easy for a young person to make is because for them it is about fun and excitement, novelty, etc, and they haven't yet learned (or been trained) to avoid risk, to fear, to make compromises, and other such things. Adults are the ones who have learned to negotiate, but sometimes it is hard to understand what has been gained by our ability to compromise, or to even remember how or why we learned to do it.

_Risk_. 1. the possibility of incurring misfortune or loss; hazard.

_Hazard_. 1. exposure or vulnerability to injury, loss, evil, etc.

_Compromise_. 1. to arrive at a settlement by making *concessions*. 2. to reduce the quality, value, or degree of something.

_Concession_. [see Concede]

_Concede_. 1. to yield.

_Yield_. 2a. to give up, as in defeat; *surrender *or submit. 2b. to give way to pressure or force. 2c. to give way to argument, persuasion, influence, or entreaty. 2d. to give up one's place, as to one that is superior.

_Surrender_. 1. to relinquish possession or control of to another because of demand or compulsion. 2. to give up in favor of another. 3. to give up or give back (something that has been granted). 4. to give up or abandon: surrender all hope. 5. to give up or resign (oneself) to something, as to an emotion.

_Tenacious_. 1. holding or tending to hold *persistently *to something, such as a point of view.

_Persistence_. 1. the act of persisting. 2. the state or quality of being persistent, persistency. 3. continuation of an effect after the cause is removed.

_Persistent_. 1. refusing to give up or let go; persevering obstinately.

_Uncompromising_. 1. Unwilling to grant concessions or negotiate.​
"A man will renounce any pleasures you like but he will not give up his suffering" - Gurdjieff


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## zAr (Feb 22, 2009)

Seems to me from your title that the status quo is the source of the crisis. You have to cruise or it won't resolve. If you don't cruise, you'll always wonder, and thus the crisis would be ongoing.


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

wind_magic said:


> Is it really a choice between two equally good things ?
> 
> I will say it this way - a five year old could make the choice without any problems at all. Hmm, go to work every day, or sail on a boat everyday ? Wow that is a really hard choice isn't it.
> 
> ...


Yes and no...

Some days going to work feels so wrong and I can't believe we're not cruising. There are days where my body hurts from sitting in an office and being on the computer too long or days where it just feel that it is so difficult and pointless to toil away in an office with all the stuff that goes along with that environment...

But I know some days will be also be challenging when we are out cruising... days where stuff breaks... the kids are cranky...

I think the difference will be the good days. A good day sailing is WAY better
than a good day at work.

Is it safe to say?: 'a bad day sailing is better than a good day at work.'


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## St Anna (Mar 15, 2003)

Aaargh, you guys talk too much. Just get out on the water and send Smacker a BFS post. Most things break or stop working for some reason at some time. Always have a plan B.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

GreatWhite said:


> Yes and no...
> 
> Some days going to work feels so wrong and I can't believe we're not cruising. There are days where my body hurts from sitting in an office and being on the computer too long or days where it just feel that it is so difficult and pointless to toil away in an office with all the stuff that goes along with that environment...
> 
> ...


No doubt about it, work can be very fulfilling, but it is still work. If anybody can't tell the difference between work and play then maybe they have been working for too long! If you can't think of at least 100 things you'd rather be doing than working then that is just very sad. 

You need deprogramming. 

I recommend sunshine, fresh air, boat with sails, water ...


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

star filled skies, pot luck dinners, beach volleyball, scuba, lobsters, dinghy racing, sand castles, hammock, coconuts, sunsets, breezes, tuna, crab, bicycle riding, ...


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

camping, water fights, volleyball, surfing, going to see ancient ruins in far away places, sleeping, watching meteor showers, ...


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## MarioG (Sep 6, 2009)

If I could sell my business I would be gone. Like you I love what I do and it has made for a great life. And because it was a hobbie turn profession I don't see being able to walk away from it totally or forever.
I also understand that crusing is work and fixing things ...my wife thinks thats one of the reasons I like it. I do like to feel like I'm doing something productive and helpful for the most part. Ideal for me would bounce port to port working on boats for people or other short term jobs and cruise. 

My passions seem to lead me and the wife knows when the opportunity presents its self, I'm willing to fix it. Life will always be a risk and in the end I will have no regrets.

I to think you have a few years to work this out and its hard to say what you will be faced with at that time, Keep the opportunity open ,(not selling the boat) and because you seem to have made good choices for yourself in the past I'm sure it will work out for you.

Good luck I hope you get out there.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

plan B is a good thing--always have spares. do not think before leaving on a boat as you will never go out.......like doing the high diving board at age 6 or 7.......do it dont think about it--plan B is always able to be drawn up at the moment of need.........there is a lot to say about leaving and enjoying the sea while you are able and strong.......that is if it is the sea you enjoy--if it is just the boat, then sail in a bay and do not worry about leaving or sailing seas or plan B.....just do as you can...and desire .... there is a call to those of us who love the sea----and a way to get there....fair winds....


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

Damn it is so hard. Today I resigned my job so that I can go cruising. A very hard thing to do. But I can't keep my job and go cruising. November 1st I will be unemployed and probably motoring down the Tennessee Tombigbee water way towards Mobile Alabama and the Gulf of Mexico. My wife retires January 1 and we will probably do some local cruising and then head off to the Dry Tortugas. Then the Bahamas and then Chesapeake Bay. Of course everything depends upon everything. But that is our plan.


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

That is amazing MoonSailer! All the best, I would love to hear how things go for you. Please keep us updated!

It is very inspiring to hear of your hard thought out choice!


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## leland515 (Sep 26, 2009)

Good luck MoonSailer! I hope your plan works, it sounds wonderful!


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## aerie (Jul 14, 2000)

I did the same thing, resigned from my job effective October 22 so I could move aboard my boat in the Caribbean. My plan is to return to the US to work every few weeks, but not before January. It's winter in the upper peninsula of Michigan, but I noticed it was 80 degrees in the BVI today. Let's see, winter in Michigan or summer in the islands.... Not a difficult choice to make.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

you will be sooooo happy about it all--the nerves go away after the first bridge lol--you will love the tortugas--nothing there --just an old fort and its tour and fishies that donot bite the hook--LOL----absolute peace and quiet--look out for the fish net under the anchor in tortugas--near fort---might have to dive your anchor to make sure it is dug in goood-------wew found the net then had to cut it off--so it might still be there by the time you get there------is soooo gorgeous........


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Carpe Diem

I took a chunk of my retirement when I was 42 and went cruising for 7 years. Best decision I ever made. 

When we are old and infirm we will spend little time regretting the the things that we did do in our youth, and lots of time regretting the the things we did not do.

Incidently at 62 I am off again, retired and just about to buy a boat and go Caribbean cruising for the foreseeable future after two great years exploring National Parks in the US, Canada and Mexico.


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## tsuidc (Mar 2, 2008)

This is a quote from Sterling Hayden’s Wanderer (though he was known mostly as a movie actor he was also a highly experienced sailor/seaman) “To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen, who play with their boats at sea - "cruising," it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about.”
I am not one of those who are lucky enough to have only limited means and marginal boats, but I do envy them for having the good fortune not to have to agonize giving up financial security, career and job which prevent many of us from going on our voyage.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

tsuidc said:


> This is a quote from Sterling Hayden's Wanderer (though he was known mostly as a movie actor he was also a highly experienced sailor/seaman) "To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen, who play with their boats at sea - "cruising," it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about."
> 
> *I am not one of those who are lucky enough to have only limited means and marginal boats, but I do envy them for having the good fortune not to have to agonize giving up financial security, career and job which prevent many of us from going on our voyage.*


Some thoughts ....

Think back to when you were a teenager. You probably had very little expectation about what it would cost to live in the world, and your appetite for consumer goods probably only included a few pieces of clothing, a radio, some shoes, a video game, and the like, most of which was probably provided by your parents.

Now remember the day you got your first job, you probably thought wow! All this money, you'll never be able to spend it all! And it is a lot of money compared to the population of the earth, half of whom make less than 1700$us/year (high estimate), a teenager in the United States really does make a lot of money.

But that wasn't enough, was it ? Your appetites grew, you suddenly wanted a car, and that means gasoline, insurance, oil changes, and you wanted more stereo equipment, a car stereo, more clothing, blah blah blah

Before you knew it that job you had wasn't paying so much anymore, suddenly you had expenses, reasons to spend your income, and you weren't free to just leave the job anymore or you'd have to give up the car. Welcome to the world most people live in, a world where they are enslaved by their own appetite for consumer goods. Once you fall into it, you *have *to work, you don't have a choice anymore, at least not in your own mind. Gone is the freedom you enjoyed as a teenager, those carefree days, gone forever!! (or are they ?)

Worse, as you go on, many people gain appetites that are even greater than their income. It usually starts with some kind of windfall of money, maybe someone dies and leaves you money, or you have an especially high income for a short period of time, for whatever reason you have a lot of money and your appetites grow to match, but then maybe that money isn't there any more, do your appetites shrink back to where they were ? No, you've been in the hot tub now, you've eaten the shrimp, drank the wine, you're hooked, you may even start to see these things as necessities, you are entitled to them, you work, you deserve it! Yet no matter how much you make, you seem to never have enough, even when something good happens and you get a better job it doesn't take you long to spend that too, always seeming to break even, or worse, end up in the hell of debt. Or maybe you are able to reduce your expenses enough that you start putting some money away, count yourself lucky if you do, because you are in the minority.

And the sad irony of all of this is that most adults end up being the people they never understood when they were teenagers. When you were young you looked at the amount of money your parents and grandparents had and made and you couldn't believe how much it was, it was a huge amount, right ? You (as a teenager) could have used that money to do anything you wanted to, go to Maui and surf all the time, get a motorcycle and drive around the country living in a tent and sleeping bag, hiking the great wilderness of Asia or North America, living in hostels while you rode trains around Europe. Yet most adults seem to barely be able to get by, their appetites have grown to such an extent that they can't live without the fancy car, all the toys, expensive memberships, modern services, their ego won't let them live without it - they've worked too hard to go without a cell phone, right ? Everyone else has one, they just wouldn't be "normal" if they tried to live without it, people might look at them funny!

People who leave on marginal boats, etc, don't have an easier time deciding to do it than someone of means, they just have more courage, and they do the hard work that it takes to control their own appetites. Many of the people who you see living on boats aren't nearly as "poor" as you might think, some of them were just smart enough to use the money they made to buy their own freedom.

I disagree with the sentiment of the quote above that having means is a curse - instead, I think it only takes a wider world view to find the excitement referred to, a world view that includes actually being free to do as you please, because if you allow for that then you begin to see the "things" of life as threats to your freedom rather than pleasures and gain. Instead of seeing the extra 10' of boat length as a good thing, it starts to look like a burden, something that is going to take up a lot of time and money. I think a lot of the challenge in life is simply allowing yourself to be happy.


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## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

Another viewpoint.
My house and cars are all paid off, as is my daughters college education. My job seemed to be going really good. I had sold my Hunter 27 in 1983 so we could buy the house. I missed my boat everyday for 25 years. I've got subscriptions to 5 sailing magazines.

I had bought a basket case Catalina 22 and worked on it for 5 years, then had to sell it before putting it in the water when I lost my previous job. It seemed like a good time to look at getting another boat. We took a great vacation to the Florida Keys and I started watching boat ads. A CD comes due and out of the blue my wife gives me the money and tells me to buy a boat.

That was in March of 2008. I bought the boat. She virtually hasn't spoken to me since! She sleeps on the couch downstairs. Was that a test? Did I fail?

After 2 raises the boss offered me a new position managing our shop. I bought the boat. Months went by as he found excuse after excuse not to pull the trigger on the deal. At the end of the year I got a pay cut. I rationalized that we had a bad year. He cut my pay again at the end of this year. Most of my work has been given away to outside contractors. The boss talks about how slow things are while the guy in the next office that does the same jobs I do is working tons of overtime. I figure maybe two weeks to a month before they let me go.

The boat turned into a project boat, with pay cuts, that I can no longer afford. My wife gets even more angry every time I work on it. If I don't put it all back together I will get totally hammered if I try to sell it.

How can things turn around that quickly? I am seriously thinking about going cruising, alone. 


Gary H. Lucas


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## magnusmurphy (Jul 7, 2000)

One comment to Great White I do want to add. You seemed to think your window of opportunity with the children is till about 12 years. Well, I disagree. We took our children (two girls who were 12 and 14 at the time) cruising for a year and although they were hesitant in the beginning, they didn't want to come back. We have been back a year and are planning to leave for two years, next year, this time with 14 and 17 year old girls onboard. They will be doing home schooling through a distance education center which is perfectly set up for this and has quite a few cruising teenagers on their list. Most of these kids ended up going to universities and are doing very well. I'm fortunate that my daughters are very good students and have the work ethic that we don't have to do anything - just give them the means with which to work. This will mean we'll have to plan our schedule around getting frequent WiFi access and having the grade 12 one be able to fly back home for diploma exams, but these days with SkYpe, pc anywhere etc, educations can be done really anywhere. 

Our girls have not stopped asking to go cruising again since we got back home. Their attitude now is: Our friends can come visit us in paradise....and if we really miss them we can Skype...

For us, the relationship changes into friendship and somewhat more of an equality than would be the case at home. They interact with our cruising friends, take responsibility etc. For me as dad especially as the primary breadwinner at home, the time spent with them 24/7, is more precious than anything else I can think off. That's what I've missed most since being back - the intimate way we were part of each other's lives while on the boat. Far from apparently resenting it, our daughters seemed to revel in that as well. Our relationship still is much better than many others and we have far fewer hangups (I think).

And besides, if there are any male boys around I don't like, I can just declare some sort of wheather emergency and pull up the anchor.....ha ha....

So, cruising does NOT have to stop when the kids turn 12!

Magnus Murphy


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

Regarding all there great adages and stories about finances, what I do hear and believe myself is that although most of the time it seems that if one stays locked into their job and a life of financial security: no risk is taken and little is gained.

One thing that has happened to me as I prepare to take the plunge is that I have returned to focus on my personal development which feels...great. I am not resting on my laurels, I am now working to make my self more marketable, more valuable and improve my skills so that when I return from cruising (or not) I could at least act as a private consultant or be more valuable to my current employer so I will hopefully have the option to come back.

I really see this whole process as improving my life in every way!


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## AKscooter (Jan 18, 2009)

*babes, boats, and %[email protected]*(&^%work*

Well dude those are some rough times for ya!!! Seriously, we have all been in relationships that require some compromise but there is a joke I tell at my office that always puts things in perspective. Two lovers are on a park bench and they are telling each other sweet whisperings. the girl asks her beau, how much do you love me? The beau replies, I would swim the deepest ocean for you. The sweet lass thinks for a moment and says, is that all? I would climb the highest mountain for you, the beau replies. The sweet young gal says flashing her lovely lashes, would you die for me? The dashing beau thinks for a moment and replies. No dear, my love is the undying kind.

/bad joke
//but seriously, life is too short to hang with people so miserable in their lives. 
///Whatever direction you choose makes sure it is your destination too.


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## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

GreatWhite said:


> Regarding all there great adages and stories about finances, what I do hear and believe myself is that although most of the time it seems that if one stays locked into their job and a life of financial security: no risk is taken and little is gained.


Good thread, and lots of interesting replies.

What I find is common, however, is that "going cruising full time" is fairly romanticized, while "ocean sailing for four weeks a year" is presented as a poor, weak substitute.

As I read more of the sailing quarterlies here in the UK (from the Cruising Association, from the Westerly group, from the Rival group, and more), you realize that cruising successfully, for four weeks a year, with pre-teen children is a decent and rewarding achievement in itself. It's a life-long touch point for the kids, it changes the nature of your family, and the achievements can be remarkable.

That type of cruising (for example, two weeks to Holland and back) is also something that is achievable by a middle income family, with an older boat, experience and a will to do it. Many of the sailing mags around here are about how to pick up a boat for very little, fix it up, and then go sailing and cruising safely. (An added benefit is not having to quit your job, sell your house, spend your savings, lose your health insurance, etc.)

When I read books by Liza Copeland and others, who did cruise full-time with their kids, even they sent kids home for high school years and the like, because the overall effect of long-term cruising for kids can be a two-edged sword. Not just from a socialization viewpoint, but from the idea of them having summer jobs to save for college.

My two biggest financial concerns regarding cruising full time with kids having nothing to do with my own retirement or returning to work after the cruise. The two real problemis having family health insurance for 2-6 years while cruising, and then having something saved up to help the kids with their college costs when we return. Even state colleges today (and five years from now) could put a kid seriously into debt with college loans.

Anyway, keep things in perspective, and celebrate the cruising you've done and can do even if you keep working. Yes, we could all die tomorrow for one reason or another, but that doesn't take away the cruising we did two weeks ago, or last summer, or for the last five years.

Good luck!


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Tania Aebi took her kids cruising. Read about it on Boat US logs.

BoatUS Cruising Logs

IMHO the time to go cruising is NOW. Just find a way and go. I took a chunk of retirement early and went cruising for 7 years when I was in my early 40s. Best thing I ever did. Met a few boats with teenagers on board and they seemed well adjusted to the saailing life.

Maybe the principal danger with taking kids sailing is they realise that there is more to life than the 9 to 5 grind for 40 years.


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

Vacation the problem in the USA is you either work 50 weeks a year or are unemployed. People can't fit that nice month long sail into their lives without quitting their job. Too bad that the USA is so backwards in terms of lifestyle. People should be able to work and also have a meaningful life.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

We can choose all the free time we want in the USA and i picked having a nice place to live Vs wondering around 

Not that i haven't spent 6 weeks wondering around when i was younger and at some point IMHP wondering around is NOT such a great life


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

I guess that knowing some europeans where the standard vacation is a month and most companies give 6 weeks makes me a little jealous. A german girl was shocked when I told her that most americans only get two weeks a year. America seems to think that only the rich should have a quality life and that workers should be happy to have a job and forget spending time with family on vacation. No wonder it seems that everyone is taking antidepressants,drinking a lot or using illegal drugs.


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## aerie (Jul 14, 2000)

Yes, the American mindset is any time away from work is a "vacation." I get tired of correcting people who ask me, "how was your vacation" when I return to work after being on the boat for some weeks. I try to explain that I haven't been "on vacation," living on a boat is my lifestyle. I even ended a relationship once because he saw the time on the boat as a "vacation" and not as a lifestyle choice. It came down to the underlying value of being of service and contributing to society. I suppose most people think living on a boat and cruising is escaping or withdrawing. And then there are cruisers who really can make a diffence in the lives of people they meet along the way. People need to broaden their perspective and accept that we are all individuals and therefore have the right to make individual choices about how we want to live our lives. I'm going sailing....


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

I choose to work fixing machines on land way back and i enjoy it and hate it here and there  i am sure people out cruising hate it here and there also 

I have worked to achieve a balance between work and play and were i LIVE which allows me to sail as much as i like (sometimes 4 times a week) with a great group of people between 15 and 91 years old 

NON of us own NEW boats and always help each other out on boat projects and there is a pretty massive spread in income BUT the love for sailing is a great equalizer within are area


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