# Macgregor 26 and Long Island Weather



## toben (Aug 23, 2007)

I saw a Macgregor 26 this week and thought it would be nice to get a boat that I could pull out of water and park it in my backyard each winter. 

I had been looking at boats in the 27-30 foot range and began to understand I might be paying $4000-$6000 in annual costs to paint, store, and moor the boat. So I started to look a little smaller and found the Macgregor 26 which may cost considerably less to own. 

Im planning to move to Long Island and wanted to get opinions on the weather around there and the suitability for a Macgregor 26.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

toben said:


> I saw a Macgregor 26 this week and thought it would be nice to get a boat that I could pull out of water and park it in my backyard each winter.
> 
> I had been looking at boats in the 27-30 foot range and began to understand I might be paying $4000-$6000 in annual costs to paint, store, and moor the boat. So I started to look a little smaller and found the Macgregor 26 which may cost considerably less to own.
> 
> Im planning to move to Long Island and wanted to get opinions on the weather around there and the suitability for a Macgregor 26.


I see Mr. Mighetto has been very busy this week...........

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forum...&search_in=posts&result_type=posts&highlite=+


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## toben (Aug 23, 2007)

I dont think you posted in the right thread


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## seadaddler (Dec 23, 2006)

*Perfect*

The macgreger 26 is perfect for the south shore of Long Island
bays,plenty of shallow water.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

seadaddler said:


> The macgreger 26 is perfect for the south shore of Long Island
> bays,plenty of shallow water.


*Warning! Not for the feint of heart. And not recommended reading for kids either......*

http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html


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## toben (Aug 23, 2007)

ok so I wont load 11 people on a boat built for 6 and forget to fill the water ballast.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

RickLaPaz said:


> *Warning! Not for the feint of heart. And not recommended reading for kids either......*
> 
> http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html


The drinking issue aside, this was clearly a case of gross overloading on a boat with a high center of gravity in the first place. (and likely with it's "ballast" tank empty)

We had a Martin 242 (fixed keel with about 35% ballast ratio - lightly ballasted by most standards) It took 22 people in and on it before it lost it's natural stability and clearly became ready to roll. (We tried this at a dock just to see what it would take)

A M26 with 12 bodies on board, most of whom were likely on the cabin top, it's not hard to envision the rollover. Add drunken revelry to the mix.......

To Toben's original post, the M26 has obvious appeal for the reasons cited - but there are other trailerable boats that are MUCH better sailboats by virtue of not trying to be two things at once (and doing neither well). The M26's so-called high speed under power is still barely planing, and at considerable cost in fuel consumption.

Don't expect to get a real sailboat if you choose this path.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

*north shore or south shore, other info*

Hello,

Where on Long Island would you sail, the north shore (Long Island Sound) or the south shore (great south bay / atlantic ocean)? I am not very familiar with the Mac 26, but the sound and the bay have different weather and conditions. The sound is much much larger and can have much worse weather, with bigger waves and current. The water is deep and navigation is pretty easy. The bay is smaller, has little tidal range, less room for wind built waves and lots of shallows and shoals.

IMHO the Mac could be a good choice for the bay, and less of a good choice for the sound (although I'm sure it could be fine).

Regarding costs, depending on where you keep your boat, you could spend considerably less. For a 28' boat, I paid about $2000 a season for mooring fees, haul, store, and launch. This was with me doing all maintenance, including bottom paint, etc.

There are other trailerable boats that have better reputations than the Mac, such as the Hunter 260, Catalina 250, Precision 23, etc. I have no experience with any of them, so I can't help you there.

Good luck,
Barry


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Most boats have better reputations than the MacGregor...come to think of it, ALL boats have better reputatons than the MacGregor...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

And a-_way_ we go...............

http://www.practical-sailor.com/sample/MacGregor_26_Boat_Review.html


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Actually I thought these were more comprehensive reviews, from owners who had them for many years as opposed to an evaluation based on one day with no wind.

http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/articles/index.cgi/noframes/read/1
http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/articles/index.cgi/noframes/read/121


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

CapnHand said:


> Actually I thought these were more comprehensive reviews, from owners who had them for many years as opposed to an evaluation based on one day with no wind.
> 
> http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/articles/index.cgi/noframes/read/1
> http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/articles/index.cgi/noframes/read/121


Well there you go, Kidz. The '01 review has 4 lines of posis and 41 lines of neggys.

I wonder if the original buyers of Pintos and Corvairs had access to the same types of reviews. Before it was too late........


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## mdbee (May 2, 2007)

*Mac26's*

Toben, you may want to chat with some people over at trailersailor.com

They tend to be less opinionated and not as omnipotent, as a some on other boards.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

mdbee said:


> Toben, you may want to chat with some people over at trailersailor.com
> 
> They tend to be less opinionated and not as omnipotent, as a some on other boards.


mdbee, That's where the reviews came from.


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## mdbee (May 2, 2007)

Those were hand picked to present one view.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

mdbee said:


> Those were hand picked to present one view.


Sounds like you found your perfect boat.

See you in the Marquesas next year...............


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

I would not consider buying this boat. In trying to also be a powerboat, it is too big a compromise.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

CBinRI said:


> I would not consider buying this boat. In trying to also be a powerboat, it is too big a compromise.


Well, maybe. There's a rumor floating around about a guy who bought one for $800, removed the deck and buried it in a 5 foot hole in his back hard. Seems like his son-in-law was in the pool and spa biz, so he got the entire heating, filtering and plumbing systems at cost.

Hard to beat an 8' by 26' fibre glass pool for under $2200...............


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## toben (Aug 23, 2007)

I can take the hobie to the Marquesas. Im trying to figure out how well the Macgregor is suited to long island sound if I live up North or if it can make the trip into the upper new york bay if I live on the south side.

Either way a lot of people who dont own it hate this boat!



RickLaPaz said:


> Sounds like you found your perfect boat.
> 
> See you in the Marquesas next year...............


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

toben said:


> I can take the hobie to the Marquesas. Im trying to figure out how well the Macgregor is suited to long island sound.


1). ?

2). Why?


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## toben (Aug 23, 2007)

1. See other sarcastic thread about taking a Hobie 16 around cape horn. I posted this after several people questioned my sanity when I was asking hypothetical questions. It was satirical.

2. I may move to Long Island and I'm trying to educate myself before I buy a boat.



RickLaPaz said:


> 1). ?
> 
> 2). Why?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

toben said:


> 1. See other sarcastic thread about taking a Hobie 16 around cape horn. I posted this after several people questioned my sanity when I was asking hypothetical questions. It was satirical.
> 
> 2. I may move to Long Island and I'm trying to educate myself before I buy a boat.


Toben, though my sarcasm knows no bounds and there are no topics that are sacred to me, the gist of my comments and those of the other Just-say-no-to-Macgregors is that for 5-10K, you can find a real boat. Just because there are thousands of people who think they're ideal boats does not a good boat make. Kinda like the analogy that millions of people eat at McDonalds every week. But it doesn't mean the food is any good. Personally, I wouldn't want to be within five miles of anyone who owns one of these whilst extolling their _virtues._. These people are not sailors and their opinions mean squat. But it's up to you pal. Good luck...........


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

Since you have heard enough about the M26 itself I'll just talk about LISound. I frequent Shelter Island and Montauk (at the NE end of LI) at least every other year and as long as you play "The Race" tides correctly it's not bad. I've only travelled the lenth of LI twice and got beat up - both times. Never underestimate the long fetch of the LISound to build up waves and especially when they are stacked up against the tide. Both times it was Point A to Point B motorsailing against steep 5 footers in a 11,700 lb C320 and 6 footers in my current 18,000 lb Nauticat. IT SUCKED.  An M26 would go nowhere in those conditions 50 hp outboard hanging off the stern or not. It would just bounce back off the waves. Sure you if don't go out in those conditions (nice sunny days by the way).... yada... yada.... you would be ok...... but what if you got stuck out there - litterally


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## toben (Aug 23, 2007)

OK so I can mark the M26 off the list if I sail off the north side of Long Island.

On the South Side do you think it could make it from Jamaica Bay to Upper New York Bay without endangering anyone? I know the Bays are safe enough I'm just trying to figure what the sailing is like between the two.

Anyone with experience in this area?

Also whats the shortest max mast height for these bridges?












christyleigh said:


> Since you have heard enough about the M26 itself I'll just talk about LISound...


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## paul77 (Jul 5, 2007)

toben -

Never sailed LI sound (though i will next week)

However, you can d/l free charts from NOAA, which should have that info.

http://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/mcd/Raster/download.htm

They have links to free viewers from that site as well, so it's all free!

Might be worthwhile investing in a cruising guide, even if you don't plan to overnight it should have more detailed information about bridges, local knowledge, etc.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

mdbee said:


> Those were hand picked to present one view.


No sir, actually they were not. I was reading the thread with interest. I read the Practical Sailor review that was done in a dead calm and pretty much disregarded it on that basis. Nothing much else was coming up so I googled 'macgregor sailboat review'. That's what came up so I threw it out there. Sorry if it differs from your opinion. I didn't mean to run down your boat.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Toben...you can do that trip in a rowboat...the question is...who would want to?? Jamaica Bay is filthy and noisy and then you go out into some of the busiest shipping lanes around. Suggest you set your sights on the north shore for sailing. LongIsland sound is easy sailing with generally light winds. It only starts getting rougher out at the end of the island. Even a Mac26 is fine on LIS as far as safety goes.


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## mdbee (May 2, 2007)

*No problem Capn*



CapnHand said:


> No sir, actually they were not. I was reading the thread with interest. I read the Practical Sailor review that was done in a dead calm and pretty much disregarded it on that basis. Nothing much else was coming up so I googled 'macgregor sailboat review'. That's what came up so I threw it out there. Sorry if it differs from your opinion. I didn't mean to run down your boat.


I don't have the newer Mac. I have an earlier non-"motor sailer" 26. The new 26m or x isn't my thing either, for my use. It does have a market though.

I'm in shallow bays and lakes, don't fish or ski, so for my use, the 26s works well. It just seems amazing how many people with second hand knowledge seem to like to pontificate about the Macs. Some of these people may even appear to be somewhat pompous... I'm sure they aren't.

No one boat is for everyone but I suppose some people just enjoy hearing themselves talk. Other sailors that have sailed mine, have said they were impressed how well it sailed and pointed.

Everyone deserves to have their own opinion.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Agreed MD. Fully. But it's also very good to (IMO) warn/inform/scare the new kids about the limitations/liabilities/problems that each boat may have. The last things I want to see more of is dead bodies, crushed dreams and more bad press about our chosen life styles. The world of non sailors rarely glam onto the beautiful points of cruising, sailing, gunk-holing etc,. but just love it when when morons like Cap't Pop Tart or the Reid Stowes of the world get nailed.(Trust me about Reid--that train wreck of his is coming very soon). Sailing needs all the good publicity it can get. Keeping the newbies in check until they're more capable is always a good thing. 

Plus it keeps the lawyers away....

Rick


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Mbde, There was little / no voice from the Macgregor sailors. I was wondering why and thinking it was because they were all out on their boats (as I wanted to be).


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## kdg_dean_austin (Apr 11, 2002)

I loved my Mac26X - it wasn't a great sailboat and it wasn't a great powerboat, but the boat fills a specific niche and apparently Roger MacGregor can't build enough of them to satisfy the demand. We sailed ours mostly in Fisher Island Sound and into Long Island Sound at times (usually when circling Fisher Island). As prudent sailors, we kept an eye on the weather and stayed within the design parameters of the boat. When the weather started to get iffy, we went home to our trailer or, later, to our mooring in Lords Point.

We ended up selling the boat because our interests evolved (more room, more sail, less power, more "amenities"), though we really miss that Mac at times - especially when it is time to park it on its trailer for the season!


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## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

*Toben*
You are in the wrong place to be making any kind of inquiries regarding a Macgregor and its capabilities.
You can find very good unbiased reviews by sailing magazines at the Macgregor website here:
http://www.macgregor26.com/
You can also get bona fide experienced opinions from satisfied owners here:
http://www.macgregor26x.com/
or here:
http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/index.htm?fno=80
Do yourself a favour and dismiss all the negative opinions here, this is an ant-Macgregor site that has nothing good to say regarding Macgregors, you are wasting your time and efforts.
Go somewhere that you can find experienced opinions, someone here has stated that Macgregor owners are not sailors and their opinions mean squat. Actually the reverse is true that person is not a true sailor and his opinion means squat.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

CaptKermie said:


> *Toben*
> You are in the wrong place to be making any kind of inquiries regarding a Macgregor and its capabilities.
> You can find very good unbiased reviews by sailing magazines at the Macgregor website here:
> http://www.macgregor26.com/
> ...


Ding ding ding. There's your post of the day, Kidz. Brilliant. Of course it's still early so you never know what zingers we'll see by midnite.

_"I love the smell of snake oil in the morning.........smells, it smells like horse puckey"........_


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## SailinJay (Dec 6, 2002)

I can't believe that Denr had nothing to say about this thread.


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## timebandit (Sep 18, 2002)

toben said:


> I saw a Macgregor 26 this week and thought it would be nice to get a boat that I could pull out of water and park it in my backyard each winter.
> 
> I had been looking at boats in the 27-30 foot range and began to understand I might be paying $4000-$6000 in annual costs to paint, store, and moor the boat. So I started to look a little smaller and found the Macgregor 26 which may cost considerably less to own.
> 
> Im planning to move to Long Island and wanted to get opinions on the weather around there and the suitability for a Macgregor 26.


Which 26??
26M motorsailer
26X motorsailer
26S swing keel clasic
26D dagerboard clasic


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## MSN2Travelers (Sep 12, 2006)

*Talk to MacGregor owners first ...*

*toben*,

I also want to echo *kdg_dean_austin*'s message in that "I love my Mac26M - it isn't a great sailboat and it isn't a great powerboat, but the boat fills a specific niche ..."

It is what it is, a hybrid that meets the needs of their owners. I have spent quite a few hours out on Lake Michigan in a wide variety of conditions. I will be the first to tell you that Mac 26's (in general) aren't designed to race. I understand the 26D is the best of the line for sailing performance and the 26M is a little better than the 26X when comparing power sailors. I get my "need-for-speed" fix when I crew on pure sailboats during the racing season off Milwaukee Harbour.

Spend some time looking at the sites posted by *CaptKermie*

I find it difficult to take seriously the opinions of so called "real sailors" who haven't owned a Mac or spent time sailing on one. They really aren't qualified to express an opinion about the MacGregor series of trailerable sailboats.

Find a MacGregor owner in your area and make arrangements for a test sail. Evaluate the boat first hand. 
__________________


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

CaptKermie said:


> *Toben*
> You are in the wrong place to be making any kind of inquiries regarding a Macgregor and its capabilities.
> You can find very good unbiased reviews by sailing magazines at the Macgregor website here:
> http://www.macgregor26.com/
> ...


I wouldn't agree that this is an anti-McGregor site. But it is a pro-sailing site, which may explain why other boats get higher marks around here.


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## pbpme (Sep 1, 2007)

I would never be so bold to say a Mcgregor sailer is not a sailor. However, this statement makes me chuckle just a bit...

"....It's an inexpensive entry level sailboat also capable of towing a water skier."


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## MSN2Travelers (Sep 12, 2006)

*Thread gone astray*

It seems the "experts" have managed to hijack this thread and turn it into another anti-MacGregor rant.

The original poster asked for specific advice about a boat to be used in a specific environment. You experts never did answer his question but you sure did take the opportunity to bash the MacGregor line (again).

To put things into perspective, have any of you MacGregor bashers ever owned one or spent any time sailing on one? If not, why should anybody waste their time listening to your "advice"?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

> To put things into perspective, have any of you MacGregor bashers ever owned one or spent any time sailing on one? If not, why should anybody waste their time listening to your "advice"?


Never owned one nope. Sailed on two versions - one of them had a huge engine, the other (newer)one had a big engine and was more boxy-looking than the other one. Not sure of the model numbers, but the older one looked more like a sailboat than the newer one.

Sailed on the older one well over a dozen times, and raced it once (was helping the owner learn to sail).

Also helped the owner make a few repairs. The boats are not a quality product, and I would never suggest that anyone take one further away from the dock than they can swim UNLESS they are on a small, inland lake. If people choose to buy them, use them and are happy with them, then more power to them (literally) but I think that they should be making an informed choice.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

MSN2Travelers said:


> It seems the "experts" have managed to hijack this thread and turn it into another anti-MacGregor rant.
> 
> The original poster asked for specific advice about a boat to be used in a specific environment. You experts never did answer his question but you sure did take the opportunity to bash the MacGregor line (again).
> 
> *To put things into perspective, have any of you MacGregor bashers ever owned one or spent any time sailing on one? If not, why should anybody waste their time listening to your "advice*"?


For the exact same reason that I don't;

1). Drive through South/Central at 0200 alone, blaring country songs through the speakers.

2). Argue with cops.

3). Pay my taxes.

4). Sail drunk near shore.

5). Bang my wife's sister.

All these actions can get you in trouble. But if YOU feel that the OP should buy a Muk26 and learn how to sail on a large body of water that can turn ugly at times, you go right ahead. I on the other hand will have internet proof positive that I tried to dissuade him, for the sole reason that I was concerned for his safety and the safety of his loved ones. Plus, he really needs to buy a sailboat, not a floating RV

But that's just me. You're opinions will most obviously vary. Sadly.........


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## MSN2Travelers (Sep 12, 2006)

RickLaPaz said:


> For the exact same reason that I don't;
> 
> 1). Drive through South/Central at 0200 alone, blaring country songs through the speakers.
> 
> ...


OK, I take it your answer is no. You've never owned or sailed on a Mac 26 (classic or powersailor) and that makes your opinion worthless.


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## toben (Aug 23, 2007)

Wow this thread is really bringing out some stuff. 

Any thoughts on buying a Macgregor 65 should I get rich anytime soon?


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## MSN2Travelers (Sep 12, 2006)

Sailormann said:


> Never owned one nope. Sailed on two versions - one of them had a huge engine, the other (newer)one had a big engine and was more boxy-looking than the other one. Not sure of the model numbers, but the older one looked more like a sailboat than the newer one.
> 
> Sailed on the older one well over a dozen times, and raced it once (was helping the owner learn to sail).
> 
> Also helped the owner make a few repairs. The boats are not a quality product, and I would never suggest that anyone take one further away from the dock than they can swim UNLESS they are on a small, inland lake. If people choose to buy them, use them and are happy with them, then more power to them (literally) but I think that they should be making an informed choice.


Sailormann,

*toben* asked for advice on a non-specific model of the Mac 26 line of sailboats and wanted to know if it was suitable for a specific area. It would be more helpful to all if people answered his questions with meaningful advice vs. launching into an anti-Mac rant.

If you feel the Mac is a poor quality product, then explain why. If you feel it isn't safe to take a Mac out on a large body of water, then tell him why. I don't know a thing about the NY/LIS sailing area so I won't pretend to offer him an opinion on sailing a Mac in those waters.

I do own a newer Mac and feel I am qualified to talk about it strengths as well as its shortcomings (and there are a few). The first thing I will tell *toben* is not to get sucked in by all of Roger MacGregor's slick advertising. I would never recommend buying a Mac powersailor based on its ability to pull a skier. Not something I would care or want to do. I would point out that a 50hp motor would allow him to get from Jamaica Bay to Upper New York Bay in a matter of minutes vs. hours. I would tell him that you can safely lower/raise the mast under power to get under just about any bridge.

I would also tell him that any water ballasted boat is not safe when the skipper takes it out with an empty ballast tank. If you search hard enough, you can find a horror story involving a MacGregor sailboat but if you really read the story you will find that the skipper had the boat overloaded and didn't have the ballast tank filled. Does that make the boat unsafe?? No, that was just an opportunity to give out a Darwin award to somebody helping to thin out the gene pool.

*toben* ... The Mac 26X or 26M powersailor is a hybrid sailboat. It is what it is, an OK sailboat and an OK powerboat but I wouldn't buy one to race with the big boys. It is a good entry level sailboat (you don't have to put a big motor on it), you can launch it just about anywhere, you can sail it places that most keelboats only dream of going and it is ideal for the person/family that wants to sail on a different lake/river every week.

Am I going to keep this boat for more than a few years? No. It meets the needs of my family today but my wife has already said that she wants something with more deck space that is a little less tender. The Admiral gets what the Admiral wants as long as I get more time out on the water.

And no, I wouldn't buy a MacGregor 65 because I can't see myself needing a boat that big (at least today). 
I had a boat dealer tell me once that nobody should buy a boat that is too big or too complicated to sail with just two people. He said that a good number of boats sold to people only leave the dock when it's time to haul out in the fall. They buy the big boats thinking the family will love sailing and they will always have a crew available. In reality, the kids grow up and sail the mall with their friends while mom and dad end up with a "floating RV with a mast" down at the marina. I see quite a few of these at the two marinas in Milwaukee.

Whatever boat you do eventually buy, make sure you've been out on a test sail in the same wind and wave conditions that you plan on using your boat. Make sure your significant other is along with you for that test sail.

Enjoy!


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

toben said:


> Wow this thread is really bringing out some stuff.
> 
> Any thoughts on buying a Macgregor 65 should I get rich anytime soon?


Toben, you're a troublemaker! You don't hear so much about the 65 - not too many around, I've seen a couple in our area over the last couple of years. Big moorage bill!!

M2 - I've owned a variety of decent sailboats over the last 25 years or so, and sailed on dozens of others, including the M26X. The M26 classic, as you call it, is rarely disparaged for its sailability. But I can tell you that in ideal conditions,(flat water and 10-15 knots of breeze) the Mac powersailor simply does not measure up.

Can you get from A to B? surely... Does it perform anything like a purpose designed sailing craft? No way.

Obviously there's a market, and the company has done a bang up job of selling the concept. But in reality, for those who know different, the sailing aspect does not measure up. Many M owners are first time buyers/sailors and so have no yardstick to compare. I also know several former M owners that have "switched" and now realize the difference. While they sometimes miss the powering speed, overall they are happier with what they have now.

As to price, they are not so inexpensive as some would like to say, and my son bought a perfectly good Ranger 29 for not much more money than the 50HP outboard alone costs.. and has a great little boat.

The trailor/sailor concept is not limited to the M26 - and the others sail better by and large.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Heres my $0.02 


Sell that piece of crap and get yourself a boat, Cape Dory , Allburg , Pearson,Tartan, Islander or something similar with some dissplacement and ballast and you wont have to worry about sea conditions as much . Theres plenty of people buying Macbedwetters , to this day ,I dont understand it and who knows why but they do . The above named boats are all in or less than the price range of Macs (used of course)but will put your mind at ease , your sails in the breeze and satiate you sailin needs , the article about the Champlain capsize was first of all a tradgedy but it hit home for me because its local to my sailing grounds these days and I also work with some of the people that where there at the time.Secondly it was as dumb as a captain can be . The boat is made for stinkpotters that want to look like sailors but arnt . Your boat may be everything that you want it to be and go on you but for me I want to know if she flips over shes got to come back up and right herself.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

While the MacGregor does what it is marketed for fairly well...it isn't a very good sailboat. The rigging is undersized IMHO, difficult to tune, and the boat suffers from serious weather helm issues in heavy winds. 

I guess it all really depends on what you're looking for in a sailboat. If you want the ability to motor at 15-18 knots, and the ability to sail in light to moderate winds, then it might be a good choice. However, IMHO, for the same money you could get a very nice sailboat that is far more seaworthy, and capable of being sailed in a greater variety of conditions with more safety and comfort.

While I have never owned a MacGregor, I have sailed on several when I lived in Missouri, out on Lake of the Ozarks...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I'm tempted to say (at the risk if being evicerated) that if you care about sailing for sailing's sake, then the compromise offered by the M26 or other M boat is too great. I have not sailed one, I know. But, as most of us care as much about the beauty of our boats as their many great qualities, how could you feel good about your boat or yourself sailing one of those things? My apologies to all the happy M owners out there.....


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

Speaking only from memory, it seems that every time there has been a thread on McGregors on this site, it ends up with these types of arguments/disputes. I don't think that people should be unnecessarily nasty, but I do think that people should be honest and if they worry too much about the feelings of the owners of a particulary boat, someone else could end up spending real money investing in a boat that isn't right for them. This site would not be as useful a resource if people don't speak their minds. We are all capable of taking these opinions with a grain of salt.

I freely admit that I don't have personal experience with McGregors. But even their most fervent advocates would not contend that they are strong in the areas that I, personally, look for in a sailboat (pointing ability, upwind performance, stiffness). And yes, maybe part of it is that I want my sailboat to look like a sailboat. It may be a great boat for some psople's needs. I'd rather have a sailboat with a real keel or even a power boat.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

CBinRI-

You don't need a keel to have a real sailboat.. Dame Ellen and I would disagree..


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

sailingdog said:


> CBinRI-
> 
> You don't need a keel to have a real sailboat.. Dame Ellen and I would disagree..


Fair enough.


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## MSN2Travelers (Sep 12, 2006)

*Everybody has one ...*



CBinRI said:


> Speaking only from memory, it seems that every time there has been a thread on McGregors on this site, it ends up with these types of arguments/disputes. I don't think that people should be unnecessarily nasty, but I do think that people should be honest and if they worry too much about the feelings of the owners of a particulary boat, someone else could end up spending real money investing in a boat that isn't right for them. This site would not be as useful a resource if people don't speak their minds. We are all capable of taking these opinions with a grain of salt.
> 
> I freely admit that I don't have personal experience with McGregors. But even their most fervent advocates would not contend that they are strong in the areas that I, personally, look for in a sailboat (pointing ability, upwind performance, stiffness). And yes, maybe part of it is that I want my sailboat to look like a sailboat. It may be a great boat for some people's needs. I'd rather have a sailboat with a real keel or even a power boat.


Everybody is entitled to have, and express, their opinion about another boat. What irritates me is the people that bash a boat but never say why they have the opinion that they are expressing.

I race on a Pearson Flyer every week. I love the boat (& it hi-lites the sailing deficiencies of my Mac) but I would never take the family out for a multi-day cruise on one. I haven't said, and never will say, that a Mac 26M is a great sailboat. If you ask me, I will tell you why and I would hope others would speak from experience when they talk about MacGregors. Just saying a boat is a piece of crap doesn't do anybody in the sailing community any good.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

But saying it LOOKS like one is anyone's right.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

MSN2Travelers said:


> Everybody is entitled to have, and express, their opinion about another boat. What irritates me is the people that bash a boat but never say why they have the opinion that they are expressing.


I'v never taken arsenic before but I know it's not good for you.

There, does that help?............


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Judging the attributes of a Mac26 within the blink of an eye, is not an example portrayed in Malcom Gladwells' book, entitled: *blink*, but it could very well have been.

Read the book, it will prove that forming an instant opinion of Macgregors, without ever having direct experience, is enough testimony to it's lack of credibility as a sailboat, or a motorboat.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

I love McGregors...........
They take the heat off of my Bending Toy.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailortjk1 said:


> I love McGregors...........
> They take the heat off of my Bending Toy.


I'm Huntering around for the appropriate response to this.

Bear with me............


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

LOL... Not much else will... 


sailortjk1 said:


> I love McGregors...........
> They take the heat off of my Bending Toy.


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## pbpme (Sep 1, 2007)

RickLaPaz said:


> I'm Huntering around for the appropriate response to this.
> 
> Bear with me............


Jenneau, thats a real funny response?   It had me laughing.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

CaptKermie said:


> *Toben*
> You can find very good unbiased reviews by sailing magazines at the Macgregor website here:http://www.macgregor26.com/


I've got nothing against any brand of boat. If you like your boat, I'm happy for you. I have two problems with this statement, however. A of all, the company website, any company website, is promoting the product. It's not a source of unbiased opinions of the product that it is promoting. B of all, I have never read a negative review of any sailboat in a sailing magazine. Now this could mean that all sailboats are great. Or there's the outside chance that sailing magazines don't see it as good business to run down the products of their major advertisers.


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## mdbee (May 2, 2007)

I don't think Roger spends much money on advertising


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## timebandit (Sep 18, 2002)

CBinRI said:


> I freely admit that I don't have personal experience with McGregors. But even their most fervent advocates would not contend that they are strong in the areas that I, personally, look for in a sailboat (pointing ability, upwind performance, stiffness). And yes, maybe part of it is that I want my sailboat to look like a sailboat. It may be a great boat for some psople's needs. I'd rather have a sailboat with a real keel or even a power boat.


Looks like a sailboat to me ( the clasic).
Click the link if you are not afraid.
It's ok I know you have no idea of what you are talking about.
Most Mac bashing is because of the hybrids and not the clasics, 19, 21, 25 and early 26's.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/438167707.html


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

OK, I'm confused. Is that the tiller at the forward end of the cockpit, or am I missing the steering system?


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## sailhagg (Feb 19, 2007)

No, it's not the tiller, it's the main sheet.

I had a classic M26. I bought it because I wanted to see if I liked sailing. I used it on a couple of lakes near by. It was a good to learn on boat...sporting all of about 8HP worth of outboard. It was rather like dingy sailing. Yes, there was quite a bit of weather helm but adjustments to the rudder can off set it.

I wouldn't choose to have one for a long time (too tender) but it was a good boat for the conditions here for what I wanted to accomplish...which was "do I like sailing enough to buy a more expensive boat"? The answer was yes. I sold the McG (at a profit, thank you) and bought a coastal cruiser on which I don't feel cramped or like I'm camping.

So for me, the McG was a good first, short term, learn to sail, boat.

My $.02


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*M19 Owner*

About 12-years ago I encountered and became interested in the concept of the M26X. I grew up on power boats, but fell for sailing while in college in Missouri. About 5-years later after moving to Southeastern PAI bought a 14' Newport daysailer (similar to the flying Jr.'s we had in school). We had a slip in a small nearby lake, and when they upgraded the docks to accomodate up to 20' boats, I bought a Mac19 to put in mine. A year later we abandonned the small lake for the nearby salty bay of the Delaware.

This little sibling of the M26 is even less of a sailboat than the 26X having more traditional powerboat lines, but shes still a capable little sailer and handles well in the moderate seas I periodically encounter at the mouth of the Delaware Bay.

She may not point as high as some of the other boats out there but is easy to single-hand as long as the decks aren't too crowded with friends and family. I rarely have other sailors aboard, but she's always a joy to sail, especailly when I have others aboard to share that joy with.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*need some advice*

i owne a mac 26 x and i dont understand why such a bad reputation ,i have been sailing it for a year and i think if your are not drunk as a skunk and respesct the number of people halowed there is not probleme for capsize

i have a question, i am looking for a furler and i dont know what to buy and what are the good and bad about it:


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Naubri-

You'd really be much better off starting a new thread about getting a roller furling unit for your mac 26x. BTW, I'd recommend Furlex, as they do make a pretty nice unit.


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## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

naubri-
Most trailer sailors opt for the CDI FF2 rollerfurler or the Schaefer Snapfurl CF-700
The CDI uses an internal halyard system which leaves you with your jib halyard to use for something else, perhaps a spinnaker. But this also makes for a slack luff and less than optimal sail shape.
The Schafer unit is superior and makes use of your existing halyard so that you can tighten the luff. It also gives you the benefit of changing sails with the mast up. Just haul one down and haul the other up.
I have been researching this the last couple of days and I am leaning towards the Schafer unit.


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## merttan (Oct 14, 2007)

I was looking at a Mac26x when I was in market last year... Honestly, they have an admirable concept. The owner gave me a seatrial on it with both power and sail... Powerboat wise 50HP engine has a good kick... Sailboat wise it was really uncomfortable for a beginner sailor... The heeling of that boat never felt good all the way... 
And, I think as long as you stick to the limitations, which includes maker's and the law's, I don't think you'll be in trouble...
As any combination boat would do Macs makers had to sacrifice certain characteristics of both ways... I've seen Macs around LIS but never on sail... I think owners like the power option better since its more seakind versus sailing...
I've sailed my 22 footer in LIS on both N and S shores... It can get really choppy if you are around the races... Other than that,even it can be really annoying, the sound is usually calm with max 2-3ft seas during the June-Aug...
My 22 footer is a trailerable too, but I don't trailer it... Putting the mast up and down and taking care of standing rigging every time you want to sail can be really pain staking...Especially if you are to sail alone that day...
IMHO, I'd not buy the Mac for trailering...
Otherwise, it's a decent boat for the price ranging between 14-17K for 90s models...
I think if you decide what you want to do when you are out there and why you want a boat can steer you to a decision between a powerboat and sailboat... Powersailers are a bit short on both ends...


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## tenuki (Feb 11, 2007)

RickLaPaz said:


> *Warning! Not for the feint of heart. And not recommended reading for kids either......*
> 
> http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html


The comment the skipper made to explain his blood alcohol lvl, then later tried to deny. "I had a shot of vodka to help me look for the missing children." That pretty much sums up the whole sordid tale. So sad that the children payed for his stupidity.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

What is it with all the 'true' sailors pushing heavily ballasted lead draggers as the only sailboats worth owning and sailing? 

Dragging a rail through the water and clean lines for 1903 designs are not required to enjoy a day on the water sailing along, nor is pointing to 30 off the wind and making /3/4 windspeed while doing so. 

My neighbor owns a 2004 M26 - I've sailed it and sailed on it. It's no raceboat, it's no pocket cruiser, it's perfect for what he wanted it for, and a blast to launch and go when you've only got a few hours to enjoy. He has a Durbeck 46ft ketch that he's been BW on with for the purist out there, so he (and I) knows what 'real' sailing is. 
They are great for the Bay, and would probably be great for LI area.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

chuck- I don't think the real issue is so much that they are bad, it's just that there are 100's of boats that are better. Most sailors are not going to be interested in a hybri, half sailboat half powerboat, does neither well contraption, as most sailors are traditionalist at heart. Add to that the idea that a LOT of people just think they are plain ugly and, well, thats 3 strikes.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

My resentment with Macs, aside from the obvious points made by T34C, is the production quality is way down at the botton-end of the boat-builder's craft.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Yeah, I hear ya both - it's the same issue I have with my Gem. I could spend twice as much and buyer a Cat with a much better finish, if I waited until 215 to buy one and saved dilegently til then.
We all agree (I think) that boats are compromises; money, design, scantlings, purpose, finish etc..it's all a compromise or we'd all sail Hinkley's. 

M26 buyers (or any boat buyer) should look at all the compromises on the boat and decide based on the relative merits (or lack of) themselves. I think posting links published boat reviews by acknowledged reviews or owners is great, I just hate the bashing and assumed snobishness of some -


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## tenuki (Feb 11, 2007)

uh, this is _SAIL_net..... ;P


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

more than one way to sail Tenuki, not all of us have gobs of money to sink into boats.


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## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

chucklesR Wrote:
"M26 buyers (or any boat buyer) should look at all the compromises on the boat and decide based on the relative merits (or lack of) themselves. I think posting links published boat reviews by acknowledged reviews or owners is great, I just hate the bashing and assumed snobishness of some -"

The bashing and assumed snobishness of some is merely a reflection of their character or lack thereof.
I am the proud owner of a 2003 MacGregor 26M (that is me & my wife on it in the avatar) and still remember my opinion when I first saw it, after hearing my wife explain how much she liked it I responded with "it's not a real sailboat". Well today I realize how much of a compromise it is and also realize that if it was not a boat my wife liked I would not get one. I have also learned to appreciate it for what it is rather than for what it is not. It gets us out on the water, sailing or motoring makes no nevermind, it is just getting out there that counts for us.
It is a price point boat, make no mistake, but it is very versatile and affordable and I see more of this brand on the water more often than any other, Mac owners are avid boaters. I have found that many of the components that go into the building of this boat require modifying or upgrading but I knew this before getting into it just from first inspection. Even after investing a bit of cash I still come out with a decent boat at an affordable cost and I have yet to meet any buyer of any boat that does not have to reserve a percentage of the initial cost for upgrade and refit, it goes with the territory of boating.
As for being a powersailer, well, aren't they all, I mean most sailboats have some form of auxilliary power be it diesel or gas and I can't help but notice how many of the so called purists have their engines running while their sails are up, I can tell by their wake as I pull up closer.
I have also found that the Macgregor does improve its' sailing characteristics as one invests more into it (like everyone does with their boat), new sails are a big improvement over the OEM price point sails, upgraded rudders and extra weight added to the daggerboard also make for improved sailing as do better rollerfurler and other rigging which eventually require replacing on any boat one buys. The MacGregor is no offshore bluewater sailor that is for certain, but it is a very capable inland lake & protected coastal cruiser and ideally suited to the Pacific Northwest where seasons have a big influence on how much time sailors spend on the water. One look at all those big boats languishing in the marinas makes me feel pretty good about owning a boat I can keep in my driveway and work on from my garage.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

OK, now I have to jump in with a little more effort.
*We all agree (I think) that boats are compromises; money, design, scantlings, purpose, finish etc..it's all a compromise or we'd all sail Hinkley's. *Chuck- I do agree, but I think on most of those issues a Macgregor is more of a surrender than a compromise. Kermie- has a 4 year old boat and is already talking about replacing sails, furlers, rigging, rudders, and adding weight to the CB!

I took the oportunity to call a couple of dealers (in CA). A new (2007)mac 26m, on a trailer with engine is 35k. A new (2007) Catalina 250, on a trailer with engine is 38k. mac 26m without engine 25k. Catalina 250 without engine is 35k. I'm going to go out on a very sturdy limb and guess the Catalina uses better equipment (garhauer blocks, etc...), better build quality, better fit and finish, and will likely out sail the mac. (Please don't let CD- read this ) Someone is going to have to show me where the big "price point" advantage is?????? Anyone? Buehler?


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## tenuki (Feb 11, 2007)

You can't expect a boat that is a compromise between a power boat and a sail boat to be embraced wholeheartedly on a sailing site, just get over it. A boating site maybe but I bet power boaters have some words to say about them too. That was my point. this is a sailing only site, expect a crossover to be ridiculed in much the same way the three tenors christmas special is ridiculed on _classical only_ music sites. duh. I don't care one way or the other, people's boating choices are their own, my point was just, well, expect it here.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

CaptKermie said:


> chucklesR Wrote:
> "M26 buyers (or any boat buyer) should look at all the compromises on the boat and decide based on the relative merits (or lack of) themselves. I think posting links published boat reviews by acknowledged reviews or owners is great, I just hate the bashing and assumed snobishness of some -"
> 
> The bashing and assumed snobishness of some is merely a reflection of their character or lack thereof.
> ...


So _you're_ Frank Migetto. The one from S/A.

Nice to finally meet you..............


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

Jeesh, all the Mac bashing, you'd think this was SA. I haven't sailed any of the powerboat Macs, only the more traditional early Macs which are light, cheap, fairly quick little sailboats. While I wouldn't take my little V-21 out in Gale conditions like I would the K-35, I would and have taken it out in 20-25 in the Sound for some spirited sailing. Everybody loves to lump ALL Macs into the same bucket. Don't do this. The older Macs are proper little sailboats that are great for a first boat or a nice little daysailer.


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## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

RickLaPaz:
"So you're Frank Migetto. The one from S/A.

Nice to finally meet you.............."

Nope, I am not Frank Migetto from S/A.
My name is Terry and I do not frequent S/A

T34C
You are pretty close to the mark on Mac cost, 35K is what I paid at the outset for a basic rig with 50hp engine. And yes I am thinking of adding a few things since the rollerfurler was an option I did not get it at the outset and good thing as now I have a bit more experience & knowledge and will likely get the Schaefer Snapfurl cf-700 rather than the CDI that was available as an option. As for sails, well I have heard that the average life span for sails is 5-10 years anyway and I have 5 seasons on mine and I would like to get a new main with a bigger roach than the OEM version plus two reef points and a cunningham from Northsails. It is really more of a want than a need, same with the other upgrades, I don't have any other vices so I look for ways to spend my money on the boat. I have read about others replacing rudders with higher performance versions and adding weight to the daggerboard to tweak out that little extra performance so I am interested in copying them. Not to unlike hot rod enthusiasts who modify their cars unneccessarily to get a bit more HP for street racing, some do it to their vehicles while others do it to their boats.
I don't know final cost for the Cat250 or the equipment it uses but I do know they are not in business to lose money, they cut corners for profit like any other manufacturer, it is part of doing business at that end of the spectrum. So far I think I get a fairly decent return on investment for my little hybrid, it may not be a purebred but I do get out a lot during the season and have plenty of enjoyment.


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## toben (Aug 23, 2007)

Hey where did all the arguments go? BUMP!


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## WouldaShoulda (Oct 7, 2008)

Does that make the Mac an Old Shoe??

Heh, heh.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Old thread I should let it die, but something really bugged me. 


> A Puget Sound sailor, who said he usually sails the boat under shortened sail, records speeds of 8 knots on a broad reach with the genoa. "I also like the fact that the bigger motor allows me to fight the heavy current we experience in the Northwest," he said.
> 
> The PHRF handicap is between 240 and 250.


Ok, 8 knots and a rating of 240-250 doesn't make sense. Anyone think his knot meter was on the fritz? I guess he could've had 20+knts of apparent wind. 30knts true? Still doesn't seem very probable to me.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

zz-

His knotmeter shows speed through water, not SOG... and if he was doing three knots into a five knot current, it'd show eight knots, but his SOG would be -2 knots. 


zz4gta said:


> Old thread I should let it die, but something really bugged me.
> 
> Ok, 8 knots and a rating of 240-250 doesn't make sense. Anyone think his knot meter was on the fritz? I guess he could've had 20+knts of apparent wind. 30knts true? Still doesn't seem very probable to me.


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

I haven't sailed the Macgregor. But there can't be a 26' boat that is unsuitable for LI Sound. It's protected water after all. Don't go out in storms. Reef or strike your sails in a squall. This isn't just theory, I've sailed LI waters for many years, in everything from a sailing canoe to cruising boats. Dinghies, dories and duck boats too. You'll be fine.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

WanderingStar said:


> It's protected water after all.


Yup, so is the Chesapeake Bay. Nothing bad ever happens in here.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

So Toben, did you get your Mac 26S or D model sailboat after all?
I posted my story about helping a friend deliver his new-to-him Mac 26S from Babylon, LI to Yonkers on another thread somewhere way back. The gist of the story is that we did the 50 miles from Fire Island Inlet to NYC after getting through some 10'+ breakers where the ebbing tide of the Great South Bay meets the ocean (small tidal race). This with only an 8HP motor pushing. Once on the ocean the 3-4' swells were not a problem and we motor sailed until the wind picked up off Long Beach and we sailed into NY Harbor. As the wind picked up so did the weather helm but the wind was probably less the 15 kts so we scooted along. 
We spent the night at Liberty Landing Marina and set off in the early morning for Yonkers with a flooding tide. It was great to have the current with us as we had forgotten to put the 2 cycle engine oil in the refilled gas cans and the engine shut down. We sailed almost all of the way to Yonkers with the current until it turned against us. I don't have to say that we had a very interesting time making it the last 200 yards to the launching ramp with no wind or engine and an opposing current but we did.
While I have to agree with many of the comments about how the rigging seems pretty light I also must say that this boat impressed me by getting us there alive. If the M26'S' is used for its intended purposes it is fine for LI Sound as long as you don't get caught out in a real blow - I have seen 6' swell running from 35+ knot winds. I would not really want to be out in my own heavier boat in those conditions either. Trailering has its benefits too.


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

I didn't say nothing bad ever happens there.
I said that you're over cautious if you think you can't sail in LI Sound in a 26' boat.
If you're foolish, you can drown anywhere. 
If you're afraid, stay ashore.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Its not the 26' part that bothers me, its the motorsailor part with waterballast and a lot of windage. Not a good combo if it really starts blowing.


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## WouldaShoulda (Oct 7, 2008)

ESPECIALLY when you are unfamiliar with the boat, are lit, and have 11 souls aboard.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Besides that, high windage boats are a realy pain to handle when going to weather, don't make much headway when the bow is being blown down.


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## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

*Phrf ???*



zz4gta said:


> Old thread I should let it die, but something really bugged me.
> 
> Ok, 8 knots and a rating of 240-250 doesn't make sense. Anyone think his knot meter was on the fritz? I guess he could've had 20+knts of apparent wind. 30knts true? Still doesn't seem very probable to me.


The PHRF rating is just that, some rating that does not take into accouint the peculiarities of the Macgregor, it is after all a hybrid style boat. As for the 8 knots, well it is acheivable, and I have sustained such speed for short durations measured with a GPS SOG (SDog) under ideal conditions. It is not a regular occurrance but it can and does happen on occasion. 
As for windage, well, I have pulled up along some mighty big and high sailboats that make my MacGregor look pretty small with minimal windage, it is all a matter of perspective.
Oh, I sail in the Pacific Northwest (San Juans & Gulf Islands) even though it is fairly protected it can go from calm and tame all the way to gale force conditions and the waves can and do get big. Being a fair weather sailor I have no experience in the heavy weather stuff, I ony go out if it is under 25-30 knots. The MacGregor is custom made for this venue especially considering it is regulated by seasons. Snowing here right now with - 5-8 degrees celsius so I am moored in the driveway.


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## Guzzi (Oct 9, 2008)

What really gets me here is some of the attitudes towards Macs.
Granted, as CaptKermie says, the X and M model motorsailers are compromises.
They don't do either very well, but they do a lot well enough for their intended purpose.

But, why the disdain towards the S and D models because they are water ballast models, calling them "stinkboats" and the like?
No one calls the other water ballast boats that, do they?

Did someone try to race one with their "real" sailboat and got beat?
Is it because the Macs have everything many of the others have and do everything else comparably at a much lower price?

A friend just sold his 92 s model. Sailed it on Pool 26 of the Mississippi, Carlyle Lake in IL (and storms can really whip up quick here-he stayed anchored in many) and on the Intracoastal.
It had the original 8 hp Honda, original sails, Lewmar winches, CDI roller furling w/135 gen (until last year), rudder, keel, rigging, and was in excellent condition when he sold it.

I was on it in many a storm and never felt we were in any trouble. 

Yes the boat is a bit tender and does have a bit of weather helm. There is an improved rudder available for it which helps it point better.
The gel coat was in excellent condition and if I had the $4k he wanted for it I would have bought it in a snap. Quite easy to singlehand. I learned to sail on it.

The boat was quite rugged and was fairly quick IMO.
Why did he sell it?
He was ready for a bigger fixed keel boat and got a Helms 27.

yep, quite a bit of snobbery from people who have NO first hand experience with them (except maybe the aforementioned race) towards them.

But, I have a feeling that snobbery would be directed towards any boat that isn't like thers...or car.
Kind of like the Harley-Davidson attitude of boats.
For those of you who ride, (and there are many HD riders unlike this) you know what I mean.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Guzzi said:


> Why did he sell it?
> He was ready for a bigger fixed keel boat and got a Helms 27.


Why did he want a fixed keel boat? Why not stick with the water ballast? Sounds like he realized the limits of the boat sailing wise. And a helms 27 is only one foot longer than the mac 26. He sold, and bought a boat just b/c its one foot longer? Seems like registration, taxes, hassle, etc would make that one extra foot pretty expensive if size was his only reason.

Kermie, I don't mean to knock macgregors, but phrf rated them in that range for a reason. 8 knots is not common in a mac, and SOG doesn't make any difference to me, the boat is in the water, speed through the water is what counts. Takes care of any tides that may be throwing off the readings.

Windage on boats is proportional. Yes, the maltese falcon has a lot of freeboard, but its a big boat. However, proportionally, its pretty low. The mac has a lot of freeboard for a 26' boat, there's a reason why ocean racers have low freeboard boats. Doesn't make for a dry ride, but that's part of the trade offs.

Completely different boat, the venture, is a great little sailboat, planes, and is pretty fun to sail, but shouldn't be compared to a hybrid.

I guess that's my point, there are a lot of trade offs that some sailors don't want to make when they look at a hybrid. I really like the space down below, able to pull a skier/tuber, the option to sail, but the 'cons' outweighted the 'pros' in my comparison.


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## teddier1 (Apr 8, 2008)

*Its up to you*

My first sailboat was a Cape Dory Typhoon and I sailed it on LI Sound and the boat handled all conditions well but was slow (and that could have been my faul, I have learned alot since than). My second boat was a Hunter 23 with trailer. It was priced right but the workmanship could not compare to the Cape Dory. I sailed the Hunter on LI Sound and then took it to Lake Erie. I sailed it once from Cleveland to Putin Bay about 55 miles west of Cleveland, on the way home I hit some bad weather and determined that I needed a more seaworhty boat. I than bought a Morgan 32 which I loved and it reminded me of the Cape Dory (safe but not real fast). I have since sold the Morgan(note to viewers I made a profit on both the Cape Dory and Mogran, lost money on the Hunter) and than purchased a Bavaria 37. This boat is not quite as well built as the Morgan, but sails better and I am very happy with the sleeping accomadations, we spend every weekend on her from June to September and have sail from Cleveland to Buffalo East and Putin Bay West. As for the boat you are looking at it is what it is. If you like it buy it and enjoy it.


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## Guzzi (Oct 9, 2008)

Why did he want a fixed keel boat? Why not stick with the water ballast? Sounds like he realized the limits of the boat sailing wise. And a helms 27 is only one foot longer than the mac 26. He sold, and bought a boat just b/c its one foot longer? Seems like registration, taxes, hassle, etc would make that one extra foot pretty expensive if size was his only reason.

snip

Nope, he is going to do The Loop next year and wanted an inboard engine and the increased headroom of the standard sailboat. Wanted something a bit more stable .

And the price was super good.


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