# There's an elephant in the room . . .



## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

So has there been universal agreement on this board that I missed that we're not going to discuss the Louis Vuitton Cup? 

Given that we (New Zealand) appear to have no competition even when there are two boats sailing, I'm not that concerned but one has to acknowledge that it's pretty unusual for an event of this importance to slide by without comment from this forum.

I guess we'll have to wait until the GGYC comes in second.

Is that provocative enough to start the debate?


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

Nope! Keep trying, though.

Down


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Louis Vuitton seems to wish they were never involved too!!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Somewhat ironic that what could turn out to be the most visually memorable AC in recent memory seems to be pasing by with not a lot of notice, this despite the event being almost specifically designed for TV audience.

I did watch MainSail the other evening and they did a splendid show re the accident that took Andrew Simpson's life. Really these boats are very impressive to see in action even though, old fart that I am, I still found the old AC monos entertaining to watch.

Last AC I was for Oracle if only cos a good mate was working for the syndicate. This time round its "go the Kiwis" for me so I'm very much hoping to see NZ v Oracle in the cup match itself.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Some discussion of it here:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...elated/101163-louis-vuitton-cup-race-1-a.html


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

I think the politics and court cases give it negative twist to the general public. They are not sure if they will like it, start to get involved, maybe sort of think that this is pretty neat stuff, and then, predictably, the lawyers get involved.

"Americas Cup, disappointing fans since 1851"


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

I haven't been paying attention much lately, but I have always been a Team New Zealand fan. I just get sick of all the off the water nonsense that taints the event every single year. There is a long history of the host doing everything they can to tilt the odds in their favor before a single race has been run. That aspect of Americas Cup I can do without.

The boats are amazing to watch, but I feel that events like the Volvo Ocean Race are a much better test of sailor and boat than the Cup ever was.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I've watched each of the races. And NZ is looking extremely formidable.

There is no denying that these boats and these sailors are absolutely incredible. Larry E's vision was right on the mark in every way (except, maybe, cost). This undoubtedly should be the perfect spectacle for global television AND on-shore viewership. BUT, the participants and regatta management have completely screwed it up.

When the infighting threatens the racing - no network wants to gamble air-time on that. The single boat races have been an absolute farce...though still amazing to watch.

I am trusting in the fact that these are just the baby-steps of a vibrant new direction for the AC, and that this format will remain and more participants will join the next race as the world economy improves. This is exciting racing and exciting television. They just need to stop the traditional AC legal-backbiting and simply race. This will draw fans. And it will draw television. No doubt.

It will absolutely be an exhilarating final between the Kiwis and the Yanks.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Omatako said:


> So has there been universal agreement on this board that I missed that we're not going to discuss the Louis Vuitton Cup?
> 
> Given that we (New Zealand) appear to have no competition even when there are two boats sailing, I'm not that concerned but one has to acknowledge that it's pretty unusual for an event of this importance to slide by without comment from this forum.
> 
> ...


Very few people on this site like or discuss sailboat racing for the first part. Look at then number of posts in the racing area for proof

Secondly there was a condemnation by many on this site about the people who organized and the type of racing that is presented in this version of the AC.

I have always had huge respect for the Kiwi team and effort in every AC and think the actual AC with Oracle will be interesting.

These boats are the ultimate in design of today.

Dave


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

smackdaddy said:


> BUT, the participants and regatta management have completely screwed it up.


Actually everything was on track for a good contest until the Swedish boat went bang. Then the defender (most believe) used the new set of safety rules to try to bend the design rules outside of the Protocol and unfortunately managed to get the Race Management to include the changes and in so doing mess with areas outside his jurisdiction.

Now I know people are going to say that I'm "bashing" America again by citing the defender as the root of all evil but I'm embarrassed to say that the lynch pin behind the attempt to change design rules a week before the start of the event is a Kiwi who appears to have lost the ability to compete for competition's sake and has headed down the "win at all costs" route.

The "participants" in the forms of ETNZ and LR were just defending their rights according to the Deed and the Protocol and a positive jury result says to me they were correct.

But all that stuff aside, the "racing" has been an eye-opener and the hiding that was dished out to LR was extreme.

I also have to say that the Oracle boat when you do get a glimpse of it at work appears easily as formidable as ETNZ. I don't personally believe that there is any doubt that ETNZ will end up the challenger but the AC itself is far from a foregone conclusion.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

chef2sail said:


> Very few people on this site like or discuss sailboat racing for the first part. Look at then number of posts in the racing area for proof
> 
> Secondly there was a condemnation by many on this site about the people who organized and the type of racing that is presented in this version of the AC.


Mmmmmm . . . . the last AC thread had 365 posts.

I think there's a bit of a difference between racing yourself and watching the spectacle that is the AC34.

To watch a cat of that size do a foil-to-foil gybe at between 28 and 35 knots had me spellbound and I'm really not into racing.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

*thread*

That thread was mostly a discussion about the death of the sailor and whether they should be allowed to continue the AC race, not about racing per se. Many on here wanted to shut it down.

The racing category has very few threads unfortunately.

Personally I am excited ny any AC rave where they are evenly matched. The only one which didn't interest me was the cat vs the monohull .


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

I know I am old and stodgy, but when they quit using 12 meters, I just quit giving a damn.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Omatako said:


> Actually everything was on track for a good contest until the Swedish boat went bang. Then the defender (most believe) used the new set of safety rules to try to bend the design rules outside of the Protocol and unfortunately managed to get the Race Management to include the changes and in so doing mess with areas outside his jurisdiction.
> 
> Now I know people are going to say that I'm "bashing" America again by citing the defender as the root of all evil but I'm embarrassed to say that the lynch pin behind the attempt to change design rules a week before the start of the event is a Kiwi who appears to *have lost the ability to compete for competition's sake and has headed down the "win at all costs" route*.
> 
> ...


That bold part is what I agree with - across the board. And I also agree that the attempt to change the rules at this stage was a huge mistake (one of several).

As for the Kiwi lynchpin, do you mean Murray?

PS - Ah, you mean Coutts?


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

smackdaddy said:


> PS - Ah, you mean Coutts?


Yep, the most successful person in AC history and will do whatever it takes to extend that moniker.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Didn't New Zealand disown Coutts as soon as he bailed on TNZ? Strip him of his citizenship even?


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

SchockT said:


> Didn't New Zealand disown Coutts as soon as he bailed on TNZ? Strip him of his citizenship even?


"Bailed on TNZ"? That's a polite way to put it.

No, the culture here is very forgiving. He was Public Enemy No.1 for a while but over time it quietened down. It is possible however that he may rediscovered his title in coming months.

Some say the NZ government should yank his passport, have him extradited back home and put him in prison for high treason 

As it happens, his old side-kick Brad Butterworth (the two of them worked together to take the AC from their own country in 2003) lives up the road from me but he might have stopped any anti-Kiwi activity.


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## gmengg (Jul 4, 2013)

I think we all will have to wait until the GGYC comes in second.


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