# Schooner Ashore at Fire Island



## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

_Le Papillon_, a Colvin Pinky schooner beached at Saltaire on Fire Island










More photos:
SOUNDBOUNDER: Ashore On Fire Island
Hiked out there yesterday morning


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Ouch. And that is a mean looking sea. 

Obviously conditions were a factor. Any back story yet? Did folks get off okay?


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## SailKing1 (Feb 20, 2002)

Wow, what a shame. Do you know what happened? Hope she can be pulled off brfore she's damaged beyond repair.


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

Everyone got off the boat ok.
As far as I know the boat is uninsured


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

Second time in a week that boat has gone ashore. The owners were not sailing her either time...


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

I had heard a couple of different stories. There were three young folks (including the son of the owner) doing a delivery from Maryland to Maine. One story was that there was ill-timed napping on watch. The other was that it was an intentional grounding due to problems with the boat (which seems an odd strategy).

No one anchors around there so I would doubt they just dragged anchor, unless they threw the anchor due to distress conditions.

I also heard that there was no insurance and no credit cards on any of the crew members. When they hit the sand it was calm and they still had a chance to get it off. But no one could pay and the salvage (or tow) company wanted money up front. From the picture above, it looks like a lost cause, unfortunately.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

She's a steel boat so will take a bit more than other materials before she gives it up to Davy...


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

It's starting to sound like she is going to be cut up.


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

What a shame. No insurance, how stoopid of them.


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

carl762 said:


> What a shame. No insurance, how stoopid!!!!


For many older boats, it is hard to get insurance, other than liability.


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

I heard that story from an insurer at BoatUS, for my 1979 boat. They lost my business for good. It didn't take me long to get ample insurance. 

There are tons of older boats out there with insurance. One would think , hmm steel hull, stronger, sure we'll insure.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Nice looking boat, shame!


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

> One would think , hmm steel hull, stronger, sure we'll insure.


You are overplaying the "steel hull = indestructible boat" argument.
Sure a steel hull is stronger, but the large majority of boats that are destroyed are not victims of a hole in the hull.

A boat can be destroyed in many ways, especially from an insurance standpoint.
All that needs to happen is for damages to exceed replacement value.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Thats a pretty boat! in a bad place!


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

SOUNDBOUNDER: Ashore On Fire Island


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

> You are overplaying the "steel hull = indestructible boat" argument.


You read too much into my simple statement. Steel hull ships sink all the time. Regardless of how she's constructed, followthrough and perseverence would have secured an insurance policy for said boat.

It hurts to look at her sitting there.


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

carl762 said:


> You read too much into my simple statement. Steel hull ships sink all the time.


You mean this one?



> One would think , hmm steel hull, stronger, sure we'll insure.


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

What's the big deal? It was one element of many that were not mentioned. Drop it already. 

I simply refuse to believe that boat could not be insured.


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## SailingWebGuy (May 5, 2010)

carl762 said:


> I heard that story from an insurer at BoatUS, for my 1979 boat. They lost my business for good. It didn't take me long to get ample insurance.


I was turned down by a marina because my boat is a 1976. I tried to explain that it looked much better than all the rotting boats sitting in their yard and that by the time I brought it there, it would have been completely refit. Didn't matter though..no boats over 30 years old allowed. It didn't even matter that my insurance had much more coverage than the marina's minimum requirement..


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## saillife (Jun 25, 2006)

I think the point is that age shouldn't matter that much. If you can get a survey that is acceptable there should be no issue with getting insurance. 

There are lots of things at play with insurance. My insurance doesn't cover me outside of the Chesapeak bay. So if I go offshore I'm not insured and the fact is that offshore insurance can be very expensive.

BoatUS lost me a while ago when they said I didn't have enough experience. Never mind the fact they covered me from when I was 18 for 10 years as an operator on my fathers boat.


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

carl762 said:


> What's the big deal? Drop it already.


 Practice what you preach!
You are the one who has made 4 comments on the subject.


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

saillife said:


> There are lots of things at play with insurance. My insurance doesn't cover me outside of the Chesapeak bay. So if I go offshore I'm not insured and the fact is that offshore insurance can be very expensive.


That's a very good point. I don't know the specifics at play in this case, but I do know the boat is not covered by insurance.
Whether that means he had no insurance, or his policy was voided by this trip,...I do not know.


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

If only the vessel had been insured, Surely that would have kept it off the beach.


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

If there is any truth in the statement that boatUS refused to assist due to the inability of the crew to pay in advance , I would think that flies in the face of the obligation of the responsibility of mariners to assist vessel's in distress. 
Of course I could be mistaken.
Had I been in the area and able to pull her off I would think I might have a claim of sorts against her, No ?


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

joethecobbler said:


> If only the vessel had been insured, Surely that would have kept it off the beach.


No, but it likely would have gotten it off the beach.


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## FishSticks (Nov 16, 2007)

Soundbounder, thanks for the report on this unfortunate incident. Please keep us informed about any additional details that come to light about the events leading up to the grounding.


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## HPLou (Feb 25, 2002)

Aside from the insurance issues, it's sad to see any boat beached under those conditions. Thanks for the posting Soundbounder. It would be nice to know what the circumstances were that led to this event.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

FishSticks said:


> Soundbounder, thanks for the report on this unfortunate incident. Please keep us informed about any additional details that come to light about the events leading up to the grounding.


One thing that has been reported elsewhere, is that a few days prior to going on the beach, she was grounded attempting to enter Great Egg Inlet on the Jersey coast in very poor conditions...

For those not familiar with NJ inlets, Great Egg would be an extremely poor choice as an inlet to attempt in deteriorating conditions of a vessel of such apparent draft - especially one of 26 tons of displacement powered by a 30 HP engine... Seas were apparently breaking across the inlet, and there are reports that the CG attempted to dissuade them from entering Great Egg by VHF, to no avail...

With the much better option of going into Atlantic City just a few miles further north, such a decision by the skipper seems unfathomable, and really has to call into question the sort of judgement/seamanship demonstrated during this passage...


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

JonEisberg said:


> One thing that has been reported elsewhere, is that a few days prior to going on the beach, she was grounded attempting to enter Great Egg Inlet on the Jersey coast in very poor conditions...
> 
> For those not familiar with NJ inlets, Great Egg would be an extremely poor choice as an inlet to attempt in deteriorating conditions of a vessel of such apparent draft - especially one of 26 tons of displacement powered by a 30 HP engine... Seas were apparently breaking across the inlet, and there are reports that the CG attempted to dissuade them from entering Great Egg by VHF, to no avail...
> 
> With the much better option of going into Atlantic City just a few miles further north, such a decision by the skipper seems unfathomable, and really has to call into question the sort of judgement/seamanship demonstrated during this passage...


It happened in Absecon aka Atlantic City


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

HPLou said:


> Aside from the insurance issues, it's sad to see any boat beached under those conditions. Thanks for the posting Soundbounder. It would be nice to know what the circumstances were that led to this event.


There was no one keeping watch. That has been confirmed through a friend of the owner that I know.

I'll try my best to keep everyone updated.


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

FishSticks said:


> Soundbounder, thanks for the report on this unfortunate incident. Please keep us informed about any additional details that come to light about the events leading up to the grounding.


You're welcome! 
I saw this last night.

1979 Steel Schooner

No word yet if it is real or not.


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## ottos (Aug 12, 2008)

JonEisberg said:


> One thing that has been reported elsewhere, is that a few days prior to going on the beach, she was grounded attempting to enter Great Egg Inlet on the Jersey coast in very poor conditions...
> 
> For those not familiar with NJ inlets, Great Egg would be an extremely poor choice as an inlet to attempt in deteriorating conditions of a vessel of such apparent draft - especially one of 26 tons of displacement powered by a 30 HP engine... Seas were apparently breaking across the inlet, and there are reports that the CG attempted to dissuade them from entering Great Egg by VHF, to no avail...
> 
> With the much better option of going into Atlantic City just a few miles further north, such a decision by the skipper seems unfathomable, and really has to call into question the sort of judgement/seamanship demonstrated during this passage...





SOUNDBOUNDER said:


> It happened in Absecon aka Atlantic City


Guys, I'm a local downhere and have missed any coverage. Where did you see it reported?

edit - OK I went back to the beginning of the thread and saw the original links to Soundbounders blog. Light grounding in Absecon followed by hard aground in Fire Island.

Regardless, Jon's warnings about Great Egg inlet are on the money. LNM has been listing shoaling in the channel since last year. I drive a bridge that parallels it, and it often looks bad. In any real weather, it would have to be a life and death decision.

And the Coast Guard is proposing to reduce the ATONs off the South Jersey shore.... 

.


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

ottos said:


> Guys, I'm a local downhere and have missed any coverage. Where did you see it reported?
> 
> .


I don't believe it made the news.
The information I have is from a friend of mine who is a friend of the owner.


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

ottos said:


> Guys, I'm a local downhere and have missed any coverage. Where did you see it reported?
> 
> edit - OK I went back to the beginning of the thread and saw the original links to Soundbounders blog. Light grounding in Absecon followed by hard aground in Fire Island.
> 
> ...


The stuff I heard was from locals. Hadn't heard anything about the first grounding.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

SOUNDBOUNDER said:


> You're welcome!
> I saw this last night.
> 
> 1979 Steel Schooner
> ...


Fair price?


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

Here's a link to some pictures on facebook that a local took on the day of the grounding. As you can see, the conditions were much calmer at the time. (I don't know if this link will work.)

https://www.facebook.com/#!/album.php?aid=2152252&id=20201849


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

SOUNDBOUNDER said:


> ottos said:
> 
> 
> > Guys, I'm a local downhere and have missed any coverage. Where did you see it reported?
> ...


I had seen this posted on another site&#8230;

The guy sounds like a local to the Ocean City area, seemed to be familiar with the incident:



> Re: Sailboat aground off Fire Island
> 
> This is incredible. This is the same boat that ran onto the shoals at Great Egg Harbor Inlet (Longport, NJ) last week. Two Coast Guard helicopters and Sea Tow were involved. They eventually sailed off. The reality is our inlet is extremely dangerous, is notorious for problems. On the day they got stuck, no one in their right mind would have attempted passage. The waves were breaking all across the entry. SeaTow tried hailing them multiple times to warn them but they never responded. This is toooooo wierd. Makes one wonder what is going on.
> Xsiddr
> ...


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## ottos (Aug 12, 2008)

There was a fishing boat that went aground a few weeks ago -

Commercial fishing boat runs aground in Great Egg Harbor Inlet

Great Egg Harbor Inlet still putting boaters at risk, marina owners say

Nothing reported on a sailboat in either Absecon or Great Egg that I could find. Not that it didn't happen, just I couldn;t find it reported.

.


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

CBinRI said:


> Here's a link to some pictures on facebook that a local took on the day of the grounding. As you can see, the conditions were much calmer at the time. (I don't know if this link will work.)
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/#!/album.php?aid=2152252&id=20201849


Those are great.
Looks like you were there right when it happened. Sails were still up.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

SOUNDBOUNDER said:


> Those are great.
> Looks like you were there right when it happened. Sails were still up.


Wow, looks pretty obvious she was sailed right up onto the beach...

tough to tell, but I don't see any evidence of an anchor having been deployed, or anything...

"Not Under Command", would be my guess...


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

JonEisberg said:


> Wow, looks pretty obvious she was sailed right up onto the beach...
> 
> tough to tell, but I don't see any evidence of an anchor having been deployed, or anything...
> 
> "Not Under Command", would be my guess...


It has already been confirmed by the owner that no one was keeping watch.


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

Thursday morning










SOUNDBOUNDER: Ashore On Fire Island


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

That is very sad.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Man, that hurts. Nothing like a grounding to make boats look very fragile.


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

arf145 said:


> Man, that hurts. Nothing like a grounding to make boats look very fragile.


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## paul323 (Mar 13, 2010)

Looks to me like her back is broken. Isn't it amazing how quickly a wreck buries itself in the sand?
Very sad. A nice looking boat.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Very sad.
It looks like she still has a bunch, if not all of her deck hardware. The masts look to be in solid shape as well. I guess the lack of a reasonable access road has slowed down would be salvers/vandals.

What are the legal ramifications of salvaging anything from this boat?


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

CalebD said:


> Very sad.
> It looks like she still has a bunch, if not all of her deck hardware. The masts look to be in solid shape as well. I guess the lack of a reasonable access road has slowed down would be salvers/vandals.
> 
> What are the legal ramifications of salvaging anything from this boat?


Park Service is keeping a close eye on it.

According to a Ranger we spoke with:
Going aboard and taking items is not salvaging,...it is looting! Legal salvage in this case requires taking the whole boat.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Reminds me of this;


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

Some FB photos of when she first came ashore:

https://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2152252&id=20201849&closeTheater=1

Sails are still up.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

The boat now belongs to the Insurance company... You would need to go to that company's agent in order to acquire any item off that vessel. 
No you can't go and take anything and call it salvaging, it is out right thief.

Salvaging is safe recovery of the vessel or parts there of and returning those items to their rightful owner. Then you may receive costs of recovery of those items.


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## mdbee (May 2, 2007)

*Insurance*

From a previous link:SOUNDBOUNDER: Ashore On Fire Island

"There is no insurance coverage for this incident*.
As each day passes, her chances of being saved grow dimmer.

* I am not sure whether the boat is uninsured, or if the policy did not cover this particular voyage."



Boasun said:


> The boat now belongs to the Insurance company... You would need to go to that company's agent in order to acquire any item off that vessel.
> No you can't go and take anything and call it salvaging, it is out right thief.
> 
> Salvaging is safe recovery of the vessel or parts there of and returning those items to their rightful owner. Then you may receive costs of recovery of those items.


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## hardalee22 (Nov 3, 2006)

I would think that a towing company would have towed them off without upfront payment. This would be salvage, not a tow. Maybe the captain refused assistance, in which case the boat couldn't be touched. 

The salvager would have to make a claim against the value of the boat. Sad to see. Lucky no one died.


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## sunofasailor (Apr 11, 2011)

Are they going to try and salvage her? At this point she still could be saved. But she doesn't have much more time. My Dad designed her. I called him this morning and told him about it. I'm sure the owner is really ready to disown son! Very costly mistake. Kevin Colvin


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

That boats well past the coming out in one piece point theres just way to much sand involved now and your into nesting season


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

here is an updated photo taken yesterday:

Saltaire38


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## LauderBoy (Mar 15, 2010)

It amazes me how quickly the shore will devour a boat. It seems like if you don't get the girl out pretty quickly, the situation deteriorates fairly rapidly to the point where it becomes near impossible to save her.

I don't doubt she'll just be cut up for scrap now. Pretty sad to see a seaworthy boat die like this.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

LauderBoy said:


> It amazes me how quickly the shore will devour a boat. ...


You mean, like this?










from here:http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/at...869506-random-picture-thread-hard_aground.jpg


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

WOW! It'll buff out!


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

LandLocked66c said:


> WOW! It'll buff out!


Too funny!!!


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

Here are the most recent photos I have of her. She is really taking a beating from these storms

SOUNDBOUNDER: Fire Island Schooner Update

Some of these you have seen, others you haven't.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

What a shame it would be a mammoth job to get her off now and the interior must be wrecked. 

A tug and maybe a JCB could have had her afloat and off at high tide on the first day no bother but now fugeddaboutit.

Mind you steel boats are tough, Bernard Moitessier's steel boat Joshua was driven ashore and filled with sand along with many other yachts, by Hurricane Paul at Cabo San Lucas in 1982. It was salvaged and restored, and is berthed in La Rochelle, France. What is really nice is that they still sail the snot out of the old girl. I saw her in Corunna after a Biscay crossing with a load of kids onboard at the start of my Transatlantic cruise and here is a shot of her on show last year.

Ah well I would if it would let post a pic - foiled again.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Anyone know where on Fire Island she is ashore? I'd like to take the family to see her. Fire Island is a pretty long beach and IIRC you can't drive the whole length but must enter from one side of the other. Anyone know?

I could get some updated pictures too.

Regards,
Brad


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Hi Brad. I believe she's on the beach in Saltaire, which is near the west end of the island. Google maps can give you directions.

I wish I had thought of this yesterday... I'm in town visiting family and we went up to Oyster Bay for an afternoon's walk along the water. Should have gone to Fire Island instead!


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Go to Field #5 on Fire Island to park. Walk east for over a mile.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

carl762 said:


> I heard that story from an insurer at BoatUS, for my 1979 boat. They lost my business for good. It didn't take me long to get ample insurance.
> 
> There are tons of older boats out there with insurance. One would think , hmm steel hull, stronger, sure we'll insure.


Boat US told me they will not insure any boat over 10 years old in Hawaii, I went with Progressive.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

JohnRPollard said:


> You mean, like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now that is a well anchored boat!


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## southshoreS24 (Aug 31, 2009)

she is aground in Saltaire.

here is the ferry schedule, from bay shore: http://www.fireislandferries.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/SALTspring2011Print.pdf


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## barleyrooty (Apr 25, 2011)

*Friend*

Picture from yesterday. She has a little friend... Friend more likely to make it?


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

That's insane! That boat is done for!


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

Who are the people on the deck and what are they doing?


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## paul323 (Mar 13, 2010)

(I think barleyrooty was referring to the cute seal....)


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## barleyrooty (Apr 25, 2011)

Guy on board appeared to be the owner, working on the boat.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

barleyrooty said:


> Guy on board appeared to be the owner, working on the boat.


Does anyone know what the owner did to his kid that ran her aground- Just so I know in case my kid does the same thing one day.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

CalebD said:


> Go to Field #5 on Fire Island to park. Walk east for over a mile.


So it's ironically close to the lighthouse then.

Thanks Caleb and everyone. This would be a good day-trip next weekend.

Regards,
Brad


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

They dragged it off the beach today. Not sure what happens next


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

SOUNDBOUNDER said:


> They dragged it off the beach today.


In which direction?


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

AdamLein said:


> In which direction?


 She is up past the park station which is maybe a mile NW away. Not sure if they will throw it on a barge or cut her up there.


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

Saltaire38


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Holy cow!!

I thought for sure it was cosigned to ignominy beneath the sands.

I wonder who paid?

EDIT: Oh, the answer to my question is at your link.



> The owner made a deal with the people who removed the boat, giving them money -- and the boat. So he was not in Saltaire to see the boat dragged away.


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

JohnRPollard said:


> Holy cow!!
> 
> I thought for sure it was cosigned to ignominy beneath the sands.
> 
> ...


As I understand it, the owner had until May 1 to remove it. Then the Park Service would have removed it, which would have carried additional fees and fines.

photo gallery here:
Dropbox - Photos - Simplify your life

additional links here:
SOUNDBOUNDER: Ashore On Fire Island III


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