# Ryobi vs. Makita vs. Poliglow??



## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

Buffed, polished and waxed my 1977 Pearson 30 last year using a Ryobi 10" orbital buffer with only so-so results. The finish came up somewhat, but I was hardly blown away by the results. This year I'm on the fence between investing (ahem&#8230 in a Makita 9227C polisher and doing it _right_, or (gasp!) going the Poli-Glow route and doing it _quick_.

So, I'm seeking opinions on two fronts&#8230;

1) Done a lot of research on Poli-Glow - here and elsewhere - and am aware of all the pros and cons (for the record, I have a light blue hull so I don't expect any yellowing issues that some have reported). I've read and re-read CardiacPaul's thread on his experience last year&#8230; Aesthetically, I'm maybe a _little _uncomfortable with the concept of sheathing my hull in a plastic coating, but confident I'd get good results with proper prep and application on my older gelcoat.

2) Makita vs. Ryobi&#8230; Knowing that it all comes down to the person using the tool, how much different will the performance of a professional-quality tool like a Makita 9227C affect the outcome vs. a HomeDepot Ryobi 10" buffer? I also know if I add a wetsanding phase, I can get some better results, but am a little concerned about just how thin the gelcoat is.

At this point, money really isn't the issue - it's a swing of about $100&#8230; It's either ~$60 for the Poli-Glow or ~$177 for the Makita (I have plenty of compound, polish and wax already).

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

My son polished my hull last year. Looking at the finished side I was not blown away; until I compared it to the unfinished side. What a difference! Often the older gelcoat wasn't the bright white of the newer boats, but more of a cream color.


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## tigerregis (Nov 24, 2006)

A proper 3200rpm and 3M compound will do the trick. You can go further with glazing compound.


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## craigtoo (Aug 17, 2007)

I've never used a Ryobi, but I will put a vote in for Makita products. 

Not that you asked...but....
I've used the cheap Craftsman buffer. I would not recommed them to anyone.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I have several Ryobi power tools, which were bought because of their attractive prices. My impression after extensive use of them is, they are OK for light duty jobs.

Makita on the other hand, seems to build higher quality tools. I bought a Makita 9227CX3 Sander-Polisher as a complete kit a couple seasons ago, for buffing and polishing my boat, and have only great things to say about it . . . outstanding results. It's a powerful, well-made buffer.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I would use poliglow again on the topsides, I think the finish is good, last a season or more, and is, of course, easy to apply.

I'm less enamoured with it on deck/in the cockpit... it seems to pick up dirt/stains whether from natural body oils, sunscreen stuff, or simply constant traffic.

Whichever route you choose, it's gonna be something you'll have to do on a regular basis!


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## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

Faster said:


> I would use poliglow again on the topsides, I think the finish is good, last a season or more, and is, of course, easy to apply.
> 
> I'm less enamoured with it on deck/in the cockpit... it seems to pick up dirt/stains whether from natural body oils, sunscreen stuff, or simply constant traffic.
> 
> Whichever route you choose, it's gonna be something you'll have to do on a regular basis!


I would only use poli-glow on the topsides and go with a more traditional solution on deck/cockpit with Woody Wax on non-skid. Kind of leaning towards poliglow at the moment. While poliglow is adding material to the hull and compounding/polish/wax is removing material, it's 30yo gelcoat that has been maintained but shows its age. Poliglow may buy me time before having to spring for a paint job which I'm not certain I would do on this boat.

My Ryobi/Makita question probably has at least as much to do with using the right bonnet for whatever stage of the process. I also have an okay cordless 7" Ryobi that is decent for smaller areas. The cordless part is nice since I can use it sitting on the mooring.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hello,

My boat is a 1986 O'day 35. The topsides have the original gelcoat finish. The boot and cove strips are red. When I bought the boat, the finish was in poor condition. Very heavily oxidized, dull looking, the red strips looked white with oxidation.

This spring I wanted to make the boat look good. I used Poliglow on my other boats, but I wasn't tied to it. 

To make the red stripes look better I tried a "cleaner / wax." It make the hull bead up, but the red 
looked bad. Next I tried a rubbing compound. It did next to nothing, and was very difficult to remove, even with a rotary buffer tool. I also tried Poliprep and PoliOx (a heavy duty cleaner with Oxalic? acid from the makers of Poliglow). Nothing worked well. As a last resort I wet sanded with 600 grit paper. That worked best of all, but the results are not great. 

I did clean the entire hull with poliprep, then applied poliglow. I am happy with the results. See below for some before / after pictures. 

It took about 8 hours to wet sand and poliprep the hull, and about 4 hours to apply the poliglow.

Doing everything the 'right' way would probably make the boat look better, but I would rather spend my precious time sailing. Besides, since I finished the Poliglow I had to fair the keel, apply barrier coat, then apply bottom paint. Now I just have two more coats of bottom paint, then it's splash time!

Barry


Barry


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*The buffer..*

The buffer and pad work as a system. Most Ryobi buffers I have seen are of the Wal*Mart style, use terry cloth buffing pads and basically SUCK. If this is what you own PLEASE do not base you results of buffing on this product.









Don't get me wrong, I own Ryobi tools, and love them for their price point and relative durability. The buffer however is something I would re-gift if someone gave me one..

Comparing the Ryobi 10" buffer to the Makita 9227C, or the equivalent Porter Cable, Milwaukee or Hitachi, is like pitting Rosie O'Donnell against Magic Johnson in a one on one game of basket ball...

I've used Poli-Glow and it has some characteristics that have led me to not use it again..

Once the hull is buffed, polished and waxed the next season is only a polish and wax that won't take that much more time than prepping and applying Poli-Glow. I can polish and hand wax (two step) my 36 footer in about 6 hours.

This is what can happen to miracle coatings.. That blotchyness is not a reflection it's a worn, yellowing and peeling acrylic "wonder coating"...









This was my old 1986 C-36. I did a four step wet sand, compound, polish & wax. It looked a lot like Barry's boat above when I started.









P.S. Barry if the compound was hard to get off you "burned" it. Think of compounds and polishes like wet sanding. It should remain wet to work! The advice above of 3200 RPM's is not a wise idea. The speed I use most on my Makita is between 600 and 800 RPM's I never burn my compound and it always comes off easily....

I'll post more on the subject later:


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Halekai, do you have the time frame on the deterioration shown in your first picture? And do you know which of the "miracle" coatings it was?

Our poliglow is definitely subject to wear and abrasion, as is any finish, and does have to be kept up, as does any finish other than good paint (and even that needs some TLC after a bit)


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Faster said:


> Halekai, do you have the time frame on the deterioration shown in your first picture? And do you know which of the "miracle" coatings it was?
> 
> Our poliglow is definitely subject to wear and abrasion, as is any finish, and does have to be kept up, as does any finish other than good paint (and even that needs some TLC after a bit)


The boat looked beautiful the year before and I had assumed that it had been Awlgripped. By August of the next season it looked like the picture. The majority of the blotchyness is from the mooring ball rubbing the hull and the dinghy rubbing the hull.

I was told what the coating was but can't remember which one it was so I will only say it was an acrylic coating...


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

I wouldn't disregard Ryobi, I did custom woodwork for about 12yrs, ( doors,casing,base,crowns,stairs and railings ) and 99% of it was done with ryobi, with hatachi being the compond saw of choice.

Today, all my tools used for woodworking on the boat are Ryobi.

Ryobi has been around a lot longer than Home Depot, so don't let the HD label distract you


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## tigerregis (Nov 24, 2006)

The instructions on the 3M bottle tell the user what pad to use (theirs) and what speed to use. Obviously you have never worked for a boat restorer or you would investigate before you show your ignorance. This is the absolute last piece of F***ing info I give to this site.


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## jackytdunaway (Sep 11, 2006)

Check the attitude dude. We may not all agree but civility must rule


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

tigerregis said:


> The instructions on the 3M bottle tell the user what pad to use (theirs) and what speed to use. Obviously you have never worked for a boat restorer or you would investigate before you show your ignorance. This is the absolute last piece of F***ing info I give to this site.


Um.. Who are you talking to and what are you talking about??

What's with the tude??

OK here it goes more "ignorance"...

* Point #1:* You absolutely, positively 100% DO NOT have to use 3M pads with 3M compounds to get great results. Of course they would like you to so they make more money but there are better quality pads out there than 3M. I personally use some 3M pads, some Lake Country pads and some Presta pads. The Presta and Lake Country pads are uniformly better in consistency and generally yield better results even with 3M products than my 3M pads do....

*Lake Country CCS Buffing Pads









* 
I guess it's good that you won't be giving advice seeing as it's incorrect with teh product labeling you actually referenced and you clearly have an attitude problem.

* Point #2:* You said "3200 RPM" and "3M compound"? 


tigerregis said:


> A proper 3200rpm and 3M compound will do the trick. You can go further with glazing compound.


It's strikingly funny to me how the directions on 3M Rubbing compound, you referenced, clearly state 1000 to 2500 depending upon the pad NOT 3200RPM. The directions on 3M compounds, like their pad reference, are perhaps for revenue generation. Let's see? Speed equals heat, heat dries compounds, compound and pad begin to grab/burn, user uses more 3M compound!! Brilliant marketing don't you think!!

Ever seen 3M advise the use of a misting bottle or regular old water to keep the pad wet while working? No, because the higher the speed you use the more compound you use! Think about it.. Sure I can use my machine at 2500 - 3000 rpm's but why? There is NO reason to use such speeds, especially as a novice, other than to use more compound.

Just for your knowledge, and because I'm guessing the expletive was directed at me, my history is as follows:

_ Grew up restoring concourse quality antique Porsche automobiles and was wielding a buffer to the 10-12 coats of Nitrocellulose Lacquer at about 13 years of age._

_ Was chief buffer of all family craft from about 12 or 13 years of age.
_ 
_ Worked from the age of 14 - 17 as a boat yard grunt and of course I was always handed the buffer due to the results I produced._

_ Worked as a professional boat detailer from age 17-19 again lots of restoration and lots of buffing._

_ Worked as a 1st mate on "Shiny boats" (Yachts from 55 to 110 feet) through my college years. Again lots of paint care and general maintenance including Imron and Awlgrip. My owners flipped over a single finger print and EVERYTHING HAD TO BE SPOTLESS!!!!

Personally reconditioned the gel coat or paint on over 130 hulls including the 25+ boats I've owned or family, Friends boats and the ones I worked on and got paid for.
_ 
_ No less than three weeks ago did the yearly buff and puff on my dads premier show car a 356 cabrio.. (far more critical and demanding work than the simple buffing of a gel-coated boat)_

I guess you're right! I clearly don't know what I'm talking about when I blather on about slow speeds for NOVICES....

Considering I don't know what I'm doing I'll just let my results speak on their own. I re-conditioned this boat last spring. She was last painted with RED Imron in 1989. Not bad for a 17 year old red (the most fade prone color) paint job... 
















And a gel-coated Catalina:









Go ahead guys buff away at 3200 RPM !!    

All the above boats were buffed at speeds bellow 1500 RPM's! For novices I still recommend speeds bellow 1000 rpm's but it's your choice...

P.S. The following professional circular buffers have speed ratings as follows:

Makita 9227C........ ... 600 - 3000 rpm
DeWalt 849............. 1000 - 3000 rpm
The FLEX LK603VVB.. 1000 - 3000 rpm
Milwaukee 5460-6.......600 - 1750 rpm


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

Me thinks Tigerregis confused SailNet for Sailing Anarchy (he's a member there as well...)


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I used said Ryobi with there terri cloth pad on my deck last weekend, along with the 3M Heavy oxidation/wax combo. It did not turn out too bad frankly. BUT, I will admit, to thinking about getting a DeWalt varible speed 6-9" angle grinder style machine, and get a buffing pad for it. As I was having some issues with the pad not turning with any pressure added to the machine. Only reason for a dewalt vs say a makita or other brand machine, Is I have a number of that brands tools I use in my construction biz, and have found them to work just fine for me. I do have a ryobi or two, that work ok, but definetly a level or two below dewalt/makita etc.

But overall, it did work. I did not try the sheepskin style pad as of yet. 

I am also not sure where Tigerregis got his problem, other than a bad day?!?!?!?!?!

Marty


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

blt2ski said:


> Only reason for a dewalt vs say a makita or other brand machine, Is I have a number of that brands tools I use in my construction biz, and have found them to work just fine for me. I do have a ryobi or two, that work ok, but definetly a level or two below dewalt/makita etc.
> 
> Marty


Marty,

The DeWalt model 849 is a great, bullet proof machine for a knowledgeable user and it's quite heavy. My only issue with it is that the slowest speed is 1000 RPM, which for novices, on certain finishes, can be too much.

The Makita has a range from 600 (no load speed) to 3000rpm and it's slightly lighter which is nice for boats and working overhead.

Again, both are great but I'd put the DeWalt in the experienced user class and the Makita bridges both novices and experts..


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Chill rod...  chill...


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## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

Damn, Halekai... You're making it tough  I was getting close to going the poliglow route and then you go ahead and post more pics of your work that are both beautiful and inspiring and at the same time make my arms ache from thinking about the work that went into achieving results like that. How about a weekend on Long Island? 

When I posted this, I knew it was only a matter of time before you responded. As stated in my original post, this is still a choice between doing it _quick_ vs. doing it _right_. While there's nothing inherently wrong with Poliglow, I'm still a bit hesitant about the concept of coating the hull with plastic (ironic for a fiberglass boat...) -- obviously many people do it and are happy with the results.

Your comparison of the Ryobi to the Makita was where I thought you would net out. For the benefit of others reading this thread, found a great deal on a Makita 9227 at National Tool Warehouse at National Tool Warehouse - 7" Electric Polisher/Sander with FREE 21" Bag, Compound Pad, and Polishing Pad. $172.95 including a hook and loop pad and compound and polishing pads. Shipping is $9.95 anywhere in the U.S.

Thanks for your input and inspiring photographs. I'm spending waaay too much time thinking this one through.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Halekai36,

Good info, I did look them up, the Makita appears to be about $20 less than the dewalt, at least at one online source. Not sure if either are available local in a store or not. may have to look at HDs or equal web page. probably not, as I did not see anything like the above at the local HD a bit ago. 

The makita does appear to be a bit easier to use with the loop front handle vs a handle out to the side. I was thinking from using a 4.5" angle grinder, that this style would fit into corners a bit better than the ryobi, and hopefully have a bit more power, so one does not stall out the disk when pushing hard. Then again, that may be a good thing, ie stalling the disk out when pushing to hard, so you do not hurt the finish!!!

Marty


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Halekai-

Nice job on that Catalina btw... won't compliment you for the red boat again...


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

tigerregis said:


> The instructions on the 3M bottle tell the user what pad to use (theirs) and what speed to use. Obviously you have never worked for a boat restorer or you would investigate before you show your ignorance. This is the absolute last piece of F***ing info I give to this site.


Well at least that last piece wasn't in the learning to sail forum! (g)

My thoughts on Poli-glow have been adequately expressed elsewhere and I think CP's experience with it indicates that you might not want to use it on your deck (!), and I've had zero yellowing or any other problems. And believe me, if I do, you'll be the first to know about it. I think you said it best when you said that you preferred to spend your time sailing. I presume that moving the ladder is why it took 4 hours to put the Poly-glo on. (g) I do my 21' trailer-sailer in about 30-40 minutes!


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

blt2ski said:


> Halekai36,
> Then again, that may be a good thing, ie stalling the disk out when pushing to hard, so you do not hurt the finish!!!
> 
> Marty


Marty.

You should not be applying much pressure at all. You keep the pad level, wet and let the machine do the work. To much pressure leads to heat.. While it is hard to hurt gelcoat with heat, it is possible, but it is really bad for "loading" of the pads and for painted finishes...


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

Halekai36,

I feel that you know your stuff when it comes to finishes and maintaining them, so I would like to ask a question.

I have a 36' sailboat that's kept in the water in a two boat slip. The hull has a fair amount of oxidation (not maintained by previous owners), and now that I have the boat I want it to look nicer. Since I've never done any detailing of fiberglass before (I can admit that), I thought that I would hire a professional to do the initial job, and then I could take over the maintenance.

How long do you think it would take to compound and wax a 36' sailboat in the water? ...and how much do you think I could reasonable expect to pay?

The work doesn't have to be as high quality as you're used to doing, but I would like something that is considered a little more than acceptable.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I was not pushing hard per say, but upon occasion one would lean for lack of better term into the buffer, and the at least with the ryobi I have, the outside pad would quit turning, I believe the main part of machine would keep turning. That was probably my biggest issue with this machine. Where I was hoping a better designed machine would keep the pad moving to a degree. It has some little string to hold the pad, double knotted it, and it still came free one time, grrrrrrrrrrr

This could be one of those, I am used to hand buffing vs a machine. Sanders etc, used them alot thru the years, but buffing, is still trying to come to me as far as how to do etc. with a power machine.

marty


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## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

After much thought and taking into consideration a lot of the feedback received here, I've decided to go the compound/polish/wax route -- either way is going to require a lot of work before I can even come close to acheiving the finish Halekai gets. I am humbled . Found a good deal on a Makita polisher and hope to post photos in a week or so that I can be proud of. This weekend is bottom scraping time...

Anyone want to buy a Ryobi buffer?


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Answer to questions.. (LONG)*

Some have PM'd me and asked specific questions but a PM is limited to 5000 characters so I'm putting it here..

Here is more info..

Buff & Wax

Try these products (for Gel-Coat)

The Cliff Note Version:
Steps:
#1-Clean the hull with an acid base cleaner like FSR or On & Off to remove tannin staining.
#2-Wet Sand by hand 600 then move up the grits to P1000 (only if severely oxidized other wise start below)
#3-3M Marine Super Duty Rubbing Compound (use a wool 3M super buff COMPOUND grade pad)
#4-3M Finesse It (Use a foam 3M #05725 pad)
#5-(OPTIONAL STEP) Meguiars #9 Swirl Remover (professional grade automotive product tan bottle - Use 3M #05725 pad)
#6-Collinite #885 Fleet Wax Paste Version- or any top quality carnuba paste wax

The Full Detailed Version:

Tools & Supplies:
To be successful in completing this project you'll need a few items first. Don't be bashful in pulling out the wallet for these supplies, and while you do, think about how much money you're saving over a new AwlGrip Paint Job. The tools for this project can be used, and will last, for years and years and with each use they cost you less.

#1) Buffer- A good Buffer is an absolute necessity! Unfortunately, one of the cheapies from Wal*Mart or Auto Zone doesn't count as quality. If you're buffing a Yugo these "budget buffers" might work but not on a 30+ foot sail boat. These "cheapies" ultimately can't handle the loads & run either too fast or too slow for the material & pad combination you are using. A thumb controlled speed dial will be the best money you spend on an orbital buffer. I use a Makita model 9227C and it's proven itself to be a reliable and top quality machine. The 9227C comes equipped with a thumb dial for easy access and instantaneous speed control and turns speeds from 600 rpm to 3000 rpm. The difference between my Makita and my old Sears Craftsman is like night and day!

There are many manufacturers of speed-controlled circular buffers but Makita, Milwaukee, Flex (German company) & DeWalt build the best and most reliable units. When buying a buffer it's very important to buy a unit with a "no load" motor set up. "No load" means that no matter how much pressure you put on the buffer it will still spin at the speed you set it at! While some of the thrifty boaters out there will no doubt find a cheapy knock off buffer that will work it most likely will not last as long or give consistently good results.

Buffer features that matter are: 1) No load speed. 2) Weight (lighter is better when working overhead). 3)Thumb control speed dial. 4) Low speeds 600 rpm is a very useful speed but many circular buffers have a slow speed of 1000 rpm. 5) Soft start this helps prevent sling upon start up.

#2)Buffing Pads- You will need two or three grades of buffing pads or discs. I only recommend 3M pads because they are easy to find and most Napa Auto Parts stores stock them. The 3M heavy wool Superbuff pads are great for compounding and the 3M foam polishing grade pads #05725 are wonderful for adding the finishing touch. Use a heavy wool compounding grade pad for the compounding, and a polishing grade wool or the #05725 for the polishing stage and the same #05725 foam pad for the finishing or glazing stage.

I'll use 3M professional grade foam pads #05725 for the polish & glaze stage but I generally use Lake Country CCS pads. When buffing a gelcoat hull it's very important to match the aggressiveness of the pad to the phase of the buffing. Very important!! You will NEVER get a good final shine using a heavy compounding grade pad even if you're using Finesse It or Meguiar's #9 with it!

If you want better pads than 3M I have been using pads by a company called Lake Country and they are incredible pads. The pads I use with the Makita are the Lake Country CCS 7.5" pads. The color of the pad denotes its level of aggressiveness. Lake Country pads can be purchased from AutoGeek.com.

#3) Microfiber Rags- Honestly these are the best invention for buffing & waxing since the buffing machine. I've been using microfibers for years and years on antique cars and trust me they have come way, way down in price since their introduction.

A pack of three microfiber rags used to cost me in the vicinity of $29.00 but now you can buy a pack of three at an auto parts store or, gulp, even Wal*Mart, for about $3.00-$4.00. Occasionally Sam's Club will have them in 18 or 24 packs for about $12.00. When buying microfiber rags be very wary & conscious of the quality. A good rag will look more like a good quality terry cloth towel, with thick full loops. In short, it will be nice and robust and the quality will be visible to the naked eye. Even the worst quality microfiber rags will still outperform the best quality terry cloth so don't worry too much. Again, these rags are amazing and they will save you time! Trying to compare terry cloth or cotton rags to microfiber rags, for this job, is like pairing Michael Moore & Bode Miller in a ski race. There is NO comparison so don't cut this corner!!

#4) Wet Sand Paper- Usually any good quality wet-sand paper like 3M is fine and grits of 600-1000 are what will be necessary. If your hull does not need a wet sanding don't bother buying it.

#5) Compounds- All compounds are not created equally. NEVER buy any compound that uses terms like "essential oils" or has the word "silicone" in the label. Compounds with these additives are for novices who don't understand the concept behind compounding. Unfortunately, these products, like 95% of the "one step" products will give a false & premature shine. This premature shine is caused by the "essential oils" or "silicone" & will cause you to stop polishing before you've actually polished anything due to this false shine.

While I really like Meguiar's line of products, their blue bottle "marine " products are a not the best Meguiar's has to offer. These Meguiar's "marine" products are geared towards novice users and will not give the results of their "pro-line" tan bottle cousins designed for the auto body industry. The "blue bottle" marine line is laden with "essential oils". If you are buying and using Meguiar's buy the pro grade stuff in the tan bottles not the blue bottle stuff sold a marine stores.

Perhaps the best, of the easily available compounds, is 3M Marine Super Rubbing Compound. I've used it with very good success over the years and it works. Is it the best compound? No. Do I regularly use it when compounding? No, but I still do on occasion. 3M Marine Super Duty Rubbing Compound is a very good product and it would be considered "paint shop safe" meaning it contains no "cheater oils" like silicone.

If you want very, very good products look up Presta Products on-line. These are sold only through body shop distributors and are water based (zero oils), expensive, but also worth every penny. For the average Joe who wants his boat shiny go with 3M. If you're part of the anal-retentive crowd, who will settle for nothing but the best, do yourself a favor and look into Presta or Menzerna Products.

#6) Polish- After the compounding phase you'll need to polish. 3M Finesse It II is a great choice for a polish. I've used many bottles of Finesse It II and it's readily available and "paint shop safe". Unfortunately, Finesse It II does have some chemical binders or carriers in it that give a minimal pre-mature shine. A quick wipe down with a spray bottle of denatured alcohol and a rag gets rid of this so you can see the real shine you've created.

Again, for the anal retentive Presta Chroma 1500 is my #1 choice for both polishing and glazing. This unique product uses diminishing grit media that starts out similar to Finesse It II but finishes like a glaze thus avoiding another full step!! Chroma 1500 is expensive, and hard to find, but simply amazing and a huge time saver. For 95% of boaters though 3M Finesse It II will be more than adequate.

The Process:

Buffing and waxing a boat the right way takes time and is a commitment. On a gelcoat hull of 36 feet I plan on about 12 hours each spring for doing a three-step polish, glaze & wax or about 6-8 hours for a two-step glaze & wax. Once you get caught up, after your first re-condition including a wet sanding or compounding, it's usually only a step process each spring. Unfortunately, the first season of re-conditioning may take you up to 40 hours if your hull is heavily oxidized. I know most sailors will never spend the time but this pays off big time when and if you do sell.

After selling my last five sail boats the longest time on the market was seven weeks. One boat I sold was a Catalina 36 & it sold in one week, at the highest price for its vintage on Yachtworld, due simply to it's maintenance and upkeep. Condition is everything and hull shine & condition plays a huge role in the overall aesthetics as a selling point.

 One Step Products: Contrary to popular belief there is no such thing as a one step solution for wet sanding, compounding, polishing and waxing a fiberglass hull. The saying "you get what you pay for" is true and an $10.00 - $18.00 bottle of "one step" cleaner wax does not cut it if you truly want your boat looking Bristol condition like it just rolled out of the Hinckley barn. Body shops don't use one step products why should you? Unless you're pinched by time, and are satisfied with a half baked job, and many boat owners will be, you may want to stop reading here. Using a one step cleaner wax is like going to the "touch-less" car wash and ordering the "wax" option for a Porsche. It's just not the same as doing it the hard & old-fashioned way.

 Cleaning the hull: Before wet sanding or compounding can begin you should thoroughly clean the hull. For this process you'll need a cheap rain suit, duck tape, rubber gloves and some ON & OFF, On & OFF Gel or FSR gel (basically acid). Duck tape where the gloves meet the raincoat so you don't get acid on your skin while reaching over-head to wash the boat. I find using On & Off, and a car wash brush, as effective, but far quicker, than applying FSR gel and they are both made of the same basic components (acids).

Buy a roll or sheet of plastic and rip it with a razor knife into 12-inch wide lengths. Tape this to your dry hull surface at the water line using 3M green tape (seems to work) at the top but let it hang on the bottom as a "drip edge" skirt. You do this so the acid in the ON & OFF does not eat the copper bottom paint and can drip on the ground vs. the bottom paint. Wash and rinse quickly a small area at a time and do this preferably before you before you bottom paint just in case. On & Off is basically FSR without the gel. However, you can wash much faster with ON & OFF than you can with FSR. The ON & OFF will bring back the white of the hull by removing the metals or tannins. Tannins are that rusty orange discoloration you get from the ocean over time that attach to the gelcoat pores. Maine has lots of metals and tannins in the water and ON & OFF is an acid that will eat it. You'll be amazed at the difference in the color of your hull! Even hulls that don't look bad look amazing after a thorough washing with On & Off. This is a very good place to start before waxing if your boat is older than a few years. Be very careful not to get On & Off or FSR on aluminum rub rails, metals, stanchions, cleats etc. because it will pit them. Only apply FSR or On & Off to the hull! Allow about 1/2 hour for the skirt set up and 1/2 hour for washing the hull.

 Removing the oxidation: To do it right you must first remove all the oxidation. This will be achieved either by wet sanding, starting with 600 grit and working up to 1000 grit plus. Wet sanding should always be done by hand! Unless you're a seasoned body shop professional do not use a machine to speed up the wet sanding process. While gel coat is very thick & most hulls can be wet sanded & compounded numerous times, compared to Linear Polyurethanes such as AwlGrip or Imron, a novice with an electric or air sander can chew through and ruin the gelcoat quickly if not fully experienced. Doing this by hand, and keeping the paper rinsed and wet, is the key to getting a good result. I like to use a soft damp sponge as my backing block and it matches the hull contours nicely.

Compounding: If the hull oxidation is minimal a good heavy duty rubbing compound, such as 3M Heavy Duty, and a compounding grade wool pad can and should be the starting point. You'll know quickly after testing a spot with the compound if you'll need to wet sand. If you need to spend more than 2-3 minutes on a 2X2 area your using the wrong machine, compound, pad or a combination of the three or you need to start at wet sanding. I can not stress enough the IMPORTANCE of using a compounding grade pad with a compound!

When compounding do keep in mind that a compound is like liquid wet sand paper. Therefore, you MUST keep your pad wet to damp at ALL TIMES. I use a misting bottle filled with water for this. If you are a novice DO NOT attempt to use the buffer to buff off compounds or polishes. Running the pad dry, as in buffing until the compound is off the hull, is something best left for PROFESSIONALS. You can very easily damage your hull if you are not experienced at "dry" buffing. I've seen burned and permanently discolored gel coat from novices attempting this. This is the reason they put "silicones" in compounds and it's because most people don;t understand the concept of how to use a buffer. Your buffer should be considered just that a buffer not a "remover". Work a 2 foot by 2 foot area and stop. Next wipe the residue off while it's still in the "damp to wet" mode. Don't let it dry or it will be a bear to remove unless you wet it again.. This will show you how much more you need to do or if you can move onto the next 2X2 area.

 The polishing phase: is perhaps the most important because it gives that deep wet look to the hull even before you wax it. Skipping the very important polishing phase, and using a compound only, will leave very small, barely visible, scratches or "swirl marks" in the gel coat that will absorb more UV light. These micro ridges and valleys or micro scratches, if you will, actually create more exposed surface area, and thus oxidize the hull more rapidly. This is why you must polish the hull as the second phase or third phase depending on your level of oxidation.

So phase 1 is wet sand (if needed), phase 2 compound, phase three polish.

Contrary to popular myths & beliefs you should not be dependent on the wax for the shine of your hull. The wax is a protection layer only and a final sealer to keep the elements at bay. Unfortunately, most people actually skip the polishing step thinking compounding is polishing. It's NOT! Once my hull is polished I do a fourth phase called glazing step (overkill for most unless you're totally anal retentive) and then two coats about three days apart of Collinite Fleet Wax. Real Carnuba wax takes a while too fully harden and this is why I do it two days apart. Carnuba does not take two days to cure but it's wise to give it at a minimum of six to eight hours with no direct sun. Most often one coat will suffice but for a really long lasting finish two coats is best. I normally do three at the waterline because this is where the wax sees the most abuse.

The fourth step, or glazing phase, would be considered over kill by many but this is the step where you literally make the hull surface as smooth as glass removing any traces of "swirl marks". By using products like Meguiars #9 Swirl Remover or #7 Show Car Glaze you eliminate micro scratches and slow the oxidizing by creating less surface are for the sun's UV rays to degrade. I find Meguiars "professional line" in the tan bottles far better than their marine line in the blue bottles. Just because something says marine it may essentially be an over priced cheap automotive product in a marine bottle. Don't worry though if you stop at 3M Finesse It II you're 90% of the way there and this level of polish is plenty good for most boaters.

What is grit level? If you were to rate various products on a 1-10 scale of grit (1 being least aggressive & 10 being most) wet sanding would be a 10 or most aggressive, compounding with a heavy duty compound would be a 7, Finesse It a 3-4.5, #9 or Show Car Glaze a 1-3 and wax a Zero.

Using the above scale as a guide you can see why you should not just jump the compounding phase to a wax. Stopping at the compounding phase will leave deep swirl marks or micro scratches, which creates more surface area, to absorb UV rays. Stopping at the Finesse It phase will leave less aggressive swirl marks but they will still be there all be it very, very minimally. Going all the way to a glazing phase will leave virtually zero swirls and prolong the time between oxidations re-appearance.

Don't be fooled by the "easy application liquid waxes" I've yet to find one that lasts and I've tried many of them! Trust me I did this for a living when I was younger and no one wants to wax a mega yacht every three months! I used to detail "shiny boats" (mega yachts) and found Collinite Fleet Wax #885 paste version to be the longest lasting and hardest of the Carnuba's. One way to test if your wax will pass the test of time is to watch your waterline. If it becomes yellow the wax is dead and gone! With Collinite I can get 8 full months without any yellowing at the waterline. No other wax has even come close except for a product called Tre-Wax and a polymer based automotive product called Nu-Finish. There are literally hundreds of waxes out there and any one of them is better than none. I only recommend the above waxes because I have used them and found them to be very durable. I have also used many of the "marine" waxes including some of the "teflon" based products, but again, none worked as well as the old-school paste Carnuba's. If you are in the deep South, or have a dark colored hull, don't bother with a Carnuba and instead use a polymer-based product. The intense heat will re-melt just about any of the Carnuba-based waxes currently made and it will fail sooner than a good quality polymer product. My favorite polymer based product for high temp areas is also a Collinite product called Insulator Wax..

When buffing & waxing a boat, out of the water, a good trick is to cover the bottom paint with at least 2" blue tape so you don't accidentally "buff and wax the paint". It's important to tape neatly so you get wax as close to the bottom paint as you can without actually getting it on the bottom paint. I usually do a 3/4-inch width tape followed by a 2-inch width giving me plenty of tape to save my buffing pads. Fouling of your buffing pad, with bottom paint, is the end of that pad until you can wash it in a commercial washing machine! Don't do it! To keep "sling", what happens when you use a rotary buffer, and it throws white dots of compound up onto your deck, off the decks, I bring old card board boxes to the boat yard. Lay them on the deck directly above the area you're working protruding about 12" over the edge of the deck. The cardboard overhang will catch any "sling" on the way up and it will save you huge amounts of time cleaning white dots off the surface of your deck!
OK some more tips.

Tips for keeping it clean:

1) With two coats of a paste Carnuba on the hull I only wash the boat with IMAR boat wash. This stuff is great and it's also safe, and approved, for washing Strataglass dodger windows. West Marine's Crystal Boat Wash Soap is also a decent and wax safe product if used as directed. The reason I use IMAR Boat Wash is because it's the only product I've found that cleans well but does not prematurely break down the wax. With IMAR I'm still beading after 7 months. Never use any soap with a built in wax, or one that's a heavy detergent based product and by all means do not use Joy, Palmolive or dishwashing detergents as they eat waxes for lunch! You can order IMAR products from Defender or directly from the IMAR web site although Defender is cheaper. Using this and a very soft car wash brush on a stick works well and does not ruin your wax job.

Tips for "yellow" looking hulls:

2) Before waxing/buffing: If your hull is old and dirty buy a cheap rain suit, duck tape, rubber gloves and some ON/OFF (basically acid). Duck tape around your wrists so you don't get acid on you while reaching over head to wash the boat. Wait until a nice rainy day and wash the entire hull with ON/OFF. Buy a roll of plastic and rip it with a razor knife into 12-inch wide lengths. Tape this to the water line with 3M green tape (seems to work) at the top but let it hang on the bottom as a drip edge skirt. You do this so the ON/OFF does not eat the copper bottom paint and can drip on the ground vs. the bottom. Wash and rinse quickly a small area at a time and do this preferably before you before you bottom paint just in case. On/Off is basically FSR without the gel. However you can wash much faster with ON/OFF than you can with FSR. The ON/OFF will bring back the white of the hull by removing the metals or tannins (that rusty orange discoloration you get) that attach to the gel coat from the ocean. Maine has lots of metals in the water and ON/OFF is an acid that will eat it. You'll be amazed at the difference in the color of your hull. This is a good place to start before waxing if your boat is older than a few years. Be careful not to get On/Off or FSR on aluminum rub rails, cleats etc. because it will pit them. You could also use FSR but it will take a full day to do it right vs. 1/2 hour for the skirt set up and 1/2 hour washing.

Tips for applying the wax:

3) Do I apply the wax by hand? Yes! DO NOT apply or remove the wax phase with the buffer! I use the 4-inch round Meguiars foam applicators you can buy at an auto parts store and a spray/mist bottle of water, like you use for ironing. The spray bottle is the secret trick for applying a true Carnuba wax. Simply mist the hull and liberally apply the wax. Wait for it to dry to about 80-90% and buff by hand with a Micro Fiber rag. Do not use terry cloth! Once you use a Micro Fiber detailing cloth for waxing you'll wonder how you ever survived without one! The spray of water some how helps it attach and buff out to a harder, shinier easier to wipe off finish. It's sort of like when you get your shoes polished and the guy hits them with a mist bottle and then buffs the shine up. This trick does not work with most of the polymer/Carnuba blends like the 3M paste but it's like gold with the Collinite Carnuba as well as Tre-Wax. Another trick is not to wax a large area! Do a three foot wide swath from toe rail to waterline marking where your are waxing at the toe rail with a piece of blue tape. Also leave a little residue on the leading edge so you'll know exactly where to start. You'll wipe this leading edge when finished with the next swath leaving another leading edge to go off of.

Over the years I have experimented at length with using my buffer to remove the wax but I found the friction heat is bad for it and it does not shine as well or last as long. Buffing it off by hand gives it a harder shell because it's cooler and does not re-melt the curing wax. Have plenty of fresh Micro Fiber rags for the wipe off! On my 36 footer I use only four Micro's where it used to take about a dozen terry cloth rags. I buy my Micro Fiber rags at Sam's Club or Wal*Mart. I used to buy them from Griot's Garage when they were the only ones who had them and they were HUGE money! Try and find the best quality Micro*Fiber you can it WILL make a difference. Sometimes the quality of the Sam's Club Micro's is poor so I go to Wally World or an auto-parts store.

Tips for decks:

4) I compound and buff the smooth and the non-skid. You could also tape off the non-skid and buff the white only letting the non-skid flatten out. I did this on one boat and it looked great! I don't wax the decks with anything but Woody Wax but I don't find that it actually protects all that much so it may be a wasted step.

One insider secret is that less distortion in the reflection shows a very good polish/glaze with virtually no swirl marks. If the items in a reflection, such as a ladder, seem distorted the polish is not up to par..

More info on pads, compounds and rags:

As maintaining the wool buffing pads I wash them alone on COLD with Woolite in a home washing machine. Sometimes it may take two cycles to get them clean. DO NOT dry them in a dryer and don't wash them on hot they are wool and a hot wash or dry will literally change the pad grade. A polish grade pad can become a compound pad fairly quickly so wash cold then air dry. I rarely have to clean a pad, during a buffing project, unless I'm doing a friends boat that is badly oxidized. Use slow speeds and light pressure to prevent compound burning. You can also use a mist bottle of water, very sparingly, to give a little moisture to the hull and lube the pad. This however will create more sling so you're best to go slow and keep the compound wet. The secret is to keep the pad "wet" if it dries, it burns, and you'll need a "spur wheel" or spigot wash to field clean it. Spurs are available at an autobody supply shop or auto parts store.

Another trick I use for a field clean is to remove the pad from the buffer and rinse it under a boatyard spigot scrubbing it with my fingers till it's clean. I then re-install the pad on the buffer and spin it on the buffers highest speed inside a 5-gallon bucket to catch the sling. Spin it until no more water spins off on the inside of the bucket. Once done with that use a towel to get it as close to dry as possible. This is the method I use as I feel it's more thorough than a spur.

A word of caution about "cheap" compounds and polishes that may contain silicone or wax or oils, which will not come, clean of the pads and will eventually ruin them. Use 3M products or Meguiars but carefully read the labels to make sure it says, "does not contain silicone". Many of the cheap products from both 3M and Meguiars contain silicone. Finesse It does not contain any silicone but be sure to read all labels. The cheap compounds use silicones because it adds lubricity to the wheel/pad, for novice users, but a low speed and a light touch and an occasional mist of a spray bottle filled with water, to lube the pad, will get you a lot further than a polishing/compounding product containing waxes or silicones. Compounding and polishing is just that compounding and polishing not compound and wax or polish and wax at the same time.

Think of a compound or polish as a very, very, very fine grit liquid sandpaper. As you know wet sandpaper contains no silicones or "essential oils" so neither should a compound or polish. Products containing silicones or "essential oils" give you a false sense of shine. This forces you to stop polishing well before you have actually finished shining. The hull should be perfectly shiny before the wax goes on but not shiny from silicone or oils. These additives wash off quickly and also prevent the Carnuba wax from binding properly to the hull. If a product says "paintable" it does not contain silicone!

As for the microfiber rags do NOT use any sort of fabric softener it will ruin the rags and also do not dry them in a dryer. You can wash them on warm or hot though... Keep me in the loop!!

Compound / Polish products I use containing NO SILICONE:

3M Marine Super Rubbing Compound
3M Finesse It - Polish
Meguiars #9 Swirl Remover - Fine Polish (in the tan bottle pro-series not marine grade in the blue bottle)
Meguiars #7 Show Car Glaze - Ultra fine Polish also pro-grade in a tan bottle.
Presta Products

Wax I use:

Collinite #885 Fleet Wax - Paste Version (Contains less than 2% silicone most of it's competitors contain 30% or more silicone)


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## wchevron (Oct 19, 2007)

halekai,
great article. thanks for the tips and advise. looks like i'm in for a long weekend of polishing.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Thanks Halekai.


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

halekai,

Thank you for that in depth information...I'm printing that out! Now when I talk to someone about working on my boat, I'll know what the really skinny is.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Late to the thread, but I would think that a boat of that era is probably ready for some wet sanding. Especially if you were not happy with the last results you got.
I see it is part of the process that halekia talks about.


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## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

Halekai,
This is terrific. This post should be a sticky...


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Went to the boat today..*

Hi Guys,

I always forget to take before and after photos but today I did. I'll apologize in advance for the poor image quality my wife has my Nikon D-200 and I had her "point & ****" today.

Anyway, I'm removing my ports to replace them and thought now is as good a time as any to buff the cabin sides without the ports getting in the way. I taped the inside of the cabin with UV duct tape so my cabin would not fill with crap and had at it for about a half hour..

I used a wool 3M Superbuff Compound Grade pad (decks are no place for foam pads) at speeds between 600 and about 1200 and Presta Ultra Cutting Creme compound. I spent about 30 minutes working the port side of the cabin trunk. This is compound only, no polish and no wax. I probably should have wet sanded but the Presta Super Cut is pretty amazing stuff! She looks quite good for 30 year old gel coat!!

Hopefully I'll get some shots with my good camera after I have done phase two the polish...

*Before - starboard side:*









*After - port side:*


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Buffer hints..*

Ok here's some more..

*Wrong Way - (this is called edging and should only be done by someone with experience):








*

*Right Way - Keep the pad flat:*









*For even distribution of compound, on the pad, use X's not circles:*









The misting bottle of H2O is for for keeping the pad well lubed and wet and the Microfiber rag is for clean up of compound...


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Thank you Halekai.

What would you do differently in your approach when tackling a boat in the water?


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## Stu01 (Feb 15, 2008)

Many thanks for passing on your expertise Halekai.
Stu


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

SVAuspicious said:


> Thank you Halekai.
> 
> What would you do differently in your approach when tackling a boat in the water?


Take some Aleve or pay someone!!!!

Seriously, I have done a lot of work in water and it's NOT fun. The key is to manipulate the boat so it's the right distance away from you for each section you work. Unfortunately this requires re-tying the boat for each section.. You lay on the finger pier on your side and buff that way with your arms over head and towards the hull.

You need to be very careful NOT to hit the water with the pad as salt water makes a big mess of a compounding or waxing job. If you are in the water buff to the top of the boot stripe as this will give you a visual reference point for the pad.

Also, plug into a GFI outlet and keep the buffer cord taught and tensioned with a bungee cord. This will prevent it from slipping into the water as you move it up and down the hull. I also always wrap the plug receptacles between the buffer and extension cord with 3M waterproof electricians tape just in case.

If you do get salt on the hull rinse it with fresh water and continue on. If you salt the pad you need to rinse it thoroughly with fresh water and spin it off to dry it, on the highest setting, inside a bucket..

Remember it's never a bad thing to have your pad damp when you start. Lubrication is good!!


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## belanich (Sep 13, 2006)

CLucas,

Wise decision - stick to traditional waxing.

Several years ago I tried a product similar to polyglo on my previous boat which was white and it worked well. Last season I tried the same stuff on my current boat - a dark green Pearson 30. It was a disaster. I am currently stripping off the finish so that I can paint the topsides.

MB
Leapfrog
Pearson 30, Hull #590


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Here is my take (and since I am laid up in NYC - too tired to wonder the streets - but to awake to sleep)...

There is always the right tool for the job, but the job you are dealing with dictates the tool.

Say you have a 4 yr old Awlgrip finish. A Rhyobi (sp) will probably work and result in less fatigue of the person using it. I used such on my C-27 and my dockmate used it on his 37 foot Carver. But the finishes were more or less intact. The trick to any polishing / waxing tool is to have plenty of covers for them as the dirtier they get the less effective they are. I think I have 20 some pads and covers depending on the usage (ie compounding or waxing).

Higher RPM tools take more muscle to use as they are usually heavier and they exhort more torque which can really wear one out really quickly. However, in heavily oxidized or dirt impregnated surfaces - more the right tool for the job in the end.

I have a full suite of the chepaer Ryhobi tools (compact and expendable in the marine environment), as well as Makita, Porter and Bousch<sp>. Each has its purpose based on the difficulty of job, ease of use, and most of all application to the job at hand. The latter being the most important decision on the reasons to use one over the other.

For example, working with pine - cheap tools work just as effectively. For Teak and other hardwoods - I'll go the commercial series of tools as usually I want those tools to be powered by compressed air, to enable immediate reload and insure correct bonding.

However, when it is all boiled down - its about the amount of elbow grease you want to put into the job. Certain tools can reduce it or make such more effective but it is surely dictated by the conditions the tools must work in.


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## BreakingWind2 (Jan 3, 2008)

Halekai, 
Excellent, well written article. Only problem is...I was so tired just reading what to do, I had to have a nap. How am I going to be able to actually do it?  

I'm free this weekend, how about I just meet you at my boat, say around noon on Saturday?

Dave


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## beej67 (Apr 2, 2008)

Ryobi Buffers make me want to punch babies.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Ok...*



beej67 said:


> Ryobi Buffers make me want to punch babies.


I can see wanting to clock the CEO of Ryobi for allowing such a ulelss tool to carry their name, especially after trying to actually buff something with it, but....... babies?


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Urban slang hal - he wouldn't ever do it.  

I could relate to that level of anger though, the sorry-ass Ryobi buffer I bought before my Makita, was used once before shoving it WAY back in my power tool cabinet.

Anybody want it - For Free?


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

TrueBlue said:


> Urban slang hal - he wouldn't ever do it.
> 
> I could relate to that level of anger though, the sorry-ass Ryobi buffer I bought before my Makita, was used once before shoving it WAY back in my power tool cabinet.
> 
> Anybody want it - For Free?


As I stated earlier in tis thread it's not even worth re-gifting..


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## beej67 (Apr 2, 2008)

What, you've never punched babies before?

It's really quite liberating. Especially after standing on my head in my port cockpit locker for two hours trying to replace the raw water impeller on the Yanmar in my 323. Kick back a couple cool Coronas and punch a baby. Really uplifts the spirit.


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## Northeaster (Jan 13, 2007)

Anyone know who makes the Simoniz 7" buffer. I think it said 12a motor on it. Just wondered if it is a decent quality machine! I realize Makita, Milwalkee, Dewalt,etc are a league apart from the lower brands - just wondered where this fell, as most shops at home don't carry the better brands. They carry other good brand tools, just not the 7" buffer / sanders, as there muct not be much demand!


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

The "random orbit" polishers like the Ryobi or Simoniz, etc are mainly for wax or cleaner-wax application; they don't generate the proper torque to remove heavy oxidation. The random orbit is supposed to reduce swirl marks when rubbing wax on/off; but if you are good and know how to use a standard polisher, a random-orbit is not necessary.

The description of how to buff out gelcoat is almost exactly what I would suggest; great write-up Halekai.

I have a question about gelcoat thickness. What are the signs of it getting thin? On some areas of my hull it looks like it is still very thick; but other areas it appears to be showing "dots" of the base coat. Is the gelcoat super thin in those areas?

In terms of wax Vs. acrylic; I understand the concerns over wear-off or peeling. My main goal at this point is to protect/prevent further oxidation of the existing gelcoat. Is acrylic a better choice for this since it seals the gelcoat from the air; and if it does peel it can be stripped and re-applied, correct?


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## Northeaster (Jan 13, 2007)

note on different Simoniz branded sander / polishers;

After reading about the fact that the Simoniz model (made by someone else, of course) may be a random / orbital unit, instead of pure rotary, I decided not to get it. However, after searching on the net, I found that they do make a direct drive 7" model, and it was on sale at Canadian tire for $59, regular $99. It was supposed to be 2 speed, with an rpm range between 1000 and 1350 rpms. Not Ideal, after reading Halekais posts, as I wanted a lower, and variable rpm model. Decided to stop by Canadian Tire to have a look anyway, and what do you know - the model they had on sale was an 11amp, variable speed (thumb dial) model wit ha 600 - 300 rpm NO LOAD- rating!!

I do realize that the better brands are normally more robust, etc, but it was on sale for $59 - and the kicker is that I got a $20 bonus gift card on the purchase - so I paid $39 for it!! (ended up being over $100 with a couple bonnets, microfiber rags, and other supplies).

Here is a pic / specs of the model (someone else had this on a detailing forum)
Alternative to the PC and G100, The simoniz sander-polisher 7" ??? - Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Northeaster said:


> note on different Simoniz branded sander / polishers;
> 
> After reading about the fact that the Simoniz model (made by someone else, of course) may be a random / orbital unit, instead of pure rotary, I decided not to get it. However, after searching on the net, I found that they do make a direct drive 7" model, and it was on sale at Canadian tire for $59, regular $99. It was supposed to be 2 speed, with an rpm range between 1000 and 1350 rpms. Not Ideal, after reading Halekais posts, as I wanted a lower, and variable rpm model. Decided to stop by Canadian Tire to have a look anyway, and what do you know - the model they had on sale was an 11amp, variable speed (thumb dial) model wit ha 600 - 300 rpm NO LOAD- rating!!
> 
> ...


Wow that's a killer deal! Even if it only polishes your boat three times before burning up you can still buy three for the price of the Makita..

My Makita has done well over 65 boats and shows no signs of giving up but I'd grab one of those buffers in a heart beat it's a good deal!!


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

Lemme pass this on about Halekai's information posted above. I printed it out a few days ago because I had to get going quick on a 30 footer with no shine. I got the Dewalt polisher because there wasn't a Makita available locally. I'm real happy with the Dewalt. 

I followed his advice for wetsanding, rubbing compound, etc. I haven't exceeded 1000 rpm with the dewalt. I wet sanded with 600, 1000, and 1500. Actually, the boat was already shiny after just the wet sanding. Final results are stunning. 

I've prepped old hulls for painting and have done awlgrip before with good results, but never before have I been able to put a killer shine on dull glass. Not even close. It ain't quick, and there's plenty of elbow grease involved, but it's straight-forward and methodical. By hand sanding and keeping the rpm low with the Dewalt, I did NO damage to the hull and removed only a minute amount of gelcoat. The hull stayed fair as can be...and I don't think I even came close to a burn with the rubbing compound. 

Another reason to consider following Halekai's program is that when you're done, you've developed a really solid skill. If you want your boat to be shiny from now on...these are the skills to have.

I'm telling ya, Halekai knows what he's talking about! And by the way, THANKS Halekai!!!


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Siamese said:


> Lemme pass this on about Halekai's information posted above. I printed it out a few days ago because I had to get going quick on a 30 footer with no shine. I got the Dewalt polisher because there wasn't a Makita available locally. I'm real happy with the Dewalt.
> 
> I followed his advice for wetsanding, rubbing compound, etc. I haven't exceeded 1000 rpm with the dewalt. I wet sanded with 600, 1000, and 1500. Actually, the boat was already shiny after just the wet sanding. Final results are stunning.
> 
> ...


Glad I could be of help!

BTW the DeWalt, I feel, is a better built buffer for the long haul. The gears are better and that may make it last longer than the Makita. Don't worry about the 1000 speed it's still relatively low and you only really lose some ability to do very fine work on painted finishes and a softer slower start to avoid sling..

We want pictures though..!!!


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Quick question and thought..........

On the deck of my boat, I have a bunch of 1ish inch strips that are smooth, and a bit weather, then a built in anti skid. being as more than likely a buffer with some 1000 grit paper will not fit, I am thinking doing a quick hand sand to remove some of the heavier oxidation and leaving the AS for the buffer. Does this make sense, for the small strips, and the larger smooth surfaces the buffer could do the work. 

Marty


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

Halekai


Thank you for all that information you gave us, and I printed all of it out for reference...put it in my Boat File. 

Now when I do our boat, or hire some of it out, I'll know what's the right way to do it...and when I'm getting BS'ed.


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## trecksail (Dec 2, 2004)

*nudder buffin question*

My stern has some serious discolloration from where old name stickers must have been. I've buffed the hell out of it and it shines like a mirror but the discolloration is still there and looks "deep". If I wet sand might this come out?


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Ghosting*



trecksail said:


> . If I wet sand might this come out?


No, usually not! It's called ghosting and the only thing to remove it is UV and time. Put the new name on and in a year or so you won't even notice. The darker the original letters usually the worse the Ghosting..


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## trecksail (Dec 2, 2004)

*Thank you!*

Thank you both for the reply as well as the great info. I will be getting to the rest of the topsides and abiding by your plan of action.


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## uwyoda (Aug 26, 2007)

*Wool vs Foam pads*

Halekai,
I've read all of your posts on the gelcoat restoration process and you inspired me - bought the Makita 9227C, bought the Lake Country foam pads, bought the 3M buffing compound and FinesseIt II polish and have wet sanded the cabin/deck gelcoat with 800, 1000, 1200 grit (gelcoat is smoother but certainly not "shiny" at this point). I have a 1988 Catalina 30. 
Now I'm trying to muster the courage to use the investments to finish the job. You mentioned in an earlier post (maybe not in this thread) that you were a fan of the foam pads, but that they should not be used on the "deck". 
Could you explain the advantages/disadvantages of using wool vs foam pads on topsides vs deck/cabin/cockpit? As a total novice at this, I don't want to damage the gelcoat and would be happy with 75% of your results....


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

uwyoda said:


> Halekai,
> I've read all of your posts on the gelcoat restoration process and you inspired me - bought the Makita 9227C, bought the Lake Country foam pads, bought the 3M buffing compound and FinesseIt II polish and have wet sanded the cabin/deck gelcoat with 800, 1000, 1200 grit (gelcoat is smoother but certainly not "shiny" at this point). I have a 1988 Catalina 30.
> Now I'm trying to muster the courage to use the investments to finish the job. You mentioned in an earlier post (maybe not in this thread) that you were a fan of the foam pads, but that they should not be used on the "deck".
> Could you explain the advantages/disadvantages of using wool vs foam pads on topsides vs deck/cabin/cockpit? As a total novice at this, I don't want to damage the gelcoat and would be happy with 75% of your results....


If you hit one piece of metal, cleat, screw, turnbuckle etc. you will tear and ruin an expensive foam pad. They will work fine, and do the job, but don't get into the non-skid like a wool pad will. Hit metal with wool and it will survive hit metal with foam and it's toast..


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## uwyoda (Aug 26, 2007)

halekai36 said:


> If you hit one piece of metal, cleat, screw, turnbuckle etc. you will tear and ruin an expensive foam pad. They will work fine, and do the job, but don't get into the non-skid like a wool pad will. Hit metal with wool and it will survive hit metal with foam and it's toast..


Got it - thanks!! I hear ya on the expensive for pads... I intended to use wool on nonskid, but was concerned that foam might somehow be too aggressive on other deck gelcoat (cabin, cockpit, etc.) vs hull (topsides) for some reason.
I'l be spending a few days on the Mercantile schooner cruise out of Camden in early July, may make a detour on the way up from Boston just to eye your craftsmanship on your boat......
Thanks again for your expertise contributions!!


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## imkeene (Jun 9, 2011)

...MaineSail: resurrecting a post from the past: Are you available for hire? :O) outstanding results, and thanks for sharing


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## Gladrags1 (Apr 9, 2003)

My only comment is that polyglo is nearly impossible to remove. Eventually you get streaking and it seems to attract black streaks. You can try to use their stripper to remove but you will never remove the whole product! I used it on one boat then sold the boat. Never again!


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