# Chart plotter or IPad



## CaptainRahnn (Feb 1, 2014)

I've been using my old 3GS iPhone with navionics for navigation also my old Garmin gps map76 as a back up. I'm now considering a larger screen option because I now need glasses to view both. People I talk to have mixed opinions some say Ipad because you can do more than just chart plotting which I totally agree with. Others say chart plotter because everything can network on one unit, radar, sonar, AIS, autopilot and Dsc which I agree with also. After looking at the new Garmin 741 touch screen and pinch to zoom it's obvious that they feeling the pressure to make these more like tablets. Is it possible to network the ipad with all other electronics or is it still in the works, someone has to be working on an app for that?
Thanks


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

I actually use both. Have a dedicated chartplotter at the helm, plus utilise an ipad with Plan2nav app running the nav software. Biggest limitation with the ipad is that it is not waterproof. I have a waterproof bag that I keep it in, however then you cannot connect charges and cables, which means it will only run for 6-8 hours. The ipad is great for zooming in and not needing glasses. However, due to the waterproof issue I only use it as a backup and the chartplotter is the item driving the boat.

Ilenart


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## WoobaGooba (Oct 16, 2012)

Ilenart said:


> ... Biggest limitation with the ipad is that it is not waterproof ...
> Ilenart


And daylight visibility is poor.

I also run both a chartplotter and IPad (for route planning only). That said, the industry generally does a poor job supporting waypoint/route sync between different brands / applications.


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

I am seeing fewer and fewer reasons to buy a chartplotter with every year that goes by. NMEA capable instruments and AIS can be networked to a tablet with relatively inexpensive wifi multiplexer. I have not had issues with sunlight visibility. Water resistance is not that difficult to accomplish. I just use a ziplock and if I want to plug in just make sure the cord is routed out the bottom with a drip loop. The big advantages to a tablet are free or inexpensive chart updates, non-US chart add-ons are much cheaper, the screen size, and the multitude of other uses the device can have when not sailing. Also the price is a big advantage considering a chartplotter with a 10" screen costs as much as 3 or 4 4G enabled iPad airs. The main shortcoming of a tablet at this point is radar. I believe the only options for getting radar on a tablet are to either buy a wifi enabled chartplotter and link it to the tablet (which defeats the purpose) or to use a windows tablet running OpenCPN with a radar display plugin (which is not officially supported by the radar manufacturers). This can also be gotten around by just using a standalone radar system.


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## CaptainRahnn (Feb 1, 2014)

4arch said:


> I am seeing fewer and fewer reasons to buy a chartplotter with every year that goes by. NMEA capable instruments and AIS can be networked to a tablet with relatively inexpensive wifi multiplexer. I have not had issues with sunlight visibility. Water resistance is not that difficult to accomplish. I just use a ziplock and if I want to plug in just make sure the cord is routed out the bottom with a drip loop. The big advantages to a tablet are free or inexpensive chart updates, non-US chart add-ons are much cheaper, the screen size, and the multitude of other uses the device can have when not sailing. Also the price is a big advantage considering a chartplotter with a 10" screen costs as much as 3 or 4 4G enabled iPad airs. The main shortcoming of a tablet at this point is radar. I believe the only options for getting radar on a tablet are to either buy a wifi enabled chartplotter and link it to the tablet (which defeats the purpose) or to use a windows tablet running OpenCPN with a radar display plugin (which is not officially supported by the radar manufacturers). This can also be gotten around by just using a standalone radar system.


Ok so how do you get an ipad to recieve NMEA data from an autopilot or AIS and what's a wifi multiplexer?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Love the iPad's overall capabilities aboard. However, a hard wired chartplotter is the most appropriate primary nav tool. That said, I have needed to pull the ipad out when my plotter went belly up.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I started using the iPad (3rd gen, GPS) last season. It's not networked, but was running as a full chart plotter (iNavX running Navionics charts) I bought a fully waterproof protective case, which worked flawlessly. I also have RAM mount bracket that worked with the case. 

Our main chart plotter is a Garmin handheld (76CSx).

The iPad worked well. The big screen was definitely nice, and the charts are good. However, the screen is hard to view in bright sun -- direct sun makes it virtually impossible. The other major drawback was battery draw. Running the iPad with a full bright screen (to make it more viable in bright sunlight) while running the GPS sucked the battery down quite fast. 

We could work around this most of these issues but what we found over the season was that we used the iPad less and less, and went back to the Garmin. The Garmin is just a better tool as a cockpit GPS chart plotter -- at least for us.

The iPad made a great backup for us. And I can see mounting it at the chart table instead of in the cockpit. This would allow you to plug it into the house battery (via a DC plug), and solve all viewing problems. I am very interested in setting up a wifi network to share NMEA data (AIS, GPS, etc). This is looking increasingly easy. But for us, I found the old handheld to be better for cockpit use.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

I use the iPad too. I use iNavx, iSailor, Navionics, WindAlert, BayBuoy, etc. The point is that the convenience of having everything in one place can't be matched with a chart plotter. I'm ambivalent about having the chart plotter in my face at the wheel because I believe that instruments belong where the crew can see them. So I keep the iPad at the chart table and don't worry about water. I too have a bag that I may use outside. What I do find most useful is having an iPhone with the same software in my pocket for navigating harbor entrances.

Since our family uses the iPad on land and on the boat, it's highly versatile and meets the need, even during endurance sailing (30+ hours sailing & racing). I prefer to save the money that I'd spend on a chart plotter and use it on better rigging and sails.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

CaptainRahnn said:


> I've been using my old 3GS iPhone with navionics for navigation also my old Garmin gps map76 as a back up. I'm now considering a larger screen option because I now need glasses to view both...


I think that you should keep your gpsmap76 for rainy day use, and for dry conditions consider an iPad, though I'd also encourage you to consider other tablets (Win8, Android) unless you are 100% invested in iOS with your phone. Part of the benefit of using a tablet is the ease with which you can move route, track, and waypoint data between a computer at home (where I do the vast majority of my planning on the nice, big screen) and the tablet that you will use on the boat. IMO, iOS is too closed a system to move the data effectively. Win8 and Android offer you much easier options for sharing data via gpx files, for instance.


WoobaGooba said:


> And daylight visibility is poor...


I agree that one needs to be careful to select a tablet that his strong backlighting and good gamut. But the brightest ones out there (iPad, Lenovo Miix2 8", Nexus 7) are equal to many turnkey chartplotters that I have seen. You can also purchase matte finish screen protectors, if reflections are a problem for you.

You should also install a 12v socket in your cockpit, so you can run the tablets at full brightness without losing battery life. I wired a 12v pigtail through my steering pedestal, back to my battery.


WoobaGooba said:


> ...the industry generally does a poor job supporting waypoint/route sync between different brands / applications.


I have had no problem transferring things between Android, Windows, and my Garmin handheld via gpx file format. I've also succeeded at transferring NMEA data via RS232, USB, Bluetooth, and WiFi.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to transfer any data in/out of my iPad. What I do in iPad, stays in iPad. Maybe other software would do better, but I moved on to more flexible options.


4arch said:


> I am seeing fewer and fewer reasons to buy a chartplotter with every year that goes by...


I agree. Phones and tablets could make chartplotters obsolete just like they have done for dedicated car GPSs.


4arch said:


> ...AIS can be networked to a tablet with relatively inexpensive wifi multiplexer...


I would be interested in what mux you use. All of the ones that I have seen are pricey. I'd like to consider one if it's at the right price. Brookhouse's website has no price list, and my emailed request for quote has gone unanswered for over 6 weeks.

Up to now, I have avoided this issue by sending each instrument signal to my computer separately via multiple COM ports. USB/Serial converters are dirt cheap, so you can do a lot of them for very little money. Bluetooth/Serial converters (which I use) are a little more expensive.

These inexpensive options are vastly greater working with a Windows laptop, netbook, or tablet, because all the chartplotter software supports data inputs via emulated COM port. Most also support WiFi. iOS (iPad) severely restricts your options for this.


4arch said:


> ...The big advantages to a tablet are free or inexpensive chart updates, non-US chart add-ons are much cheaper, the screen size, and the multitude of other uses the device can have when not sailing. Also the price is a big advantage considering a chartplotter with a 10" screen costs as much as 3 or 4 4G enabled iPad airs...


SO TRUE. For US sailors, I also like the ability to use real NOAA charts, downloaded directly from NOAA's website, and updated for free as often as you want. This eliminates the delays and costs in updating proprietary chartplotters, and also the transcription errors when the chartplotter company copies over NOAA's information.


4arch said:


> ...I believe the only options for getting radar on a tablet are to either buy a wifi enabled chartplotter and link it to the tablet (which defeats the purpose) or to use a windows tablet running OpenCPN with a radar display plugin (which is not officially supported by the radar manufacturers)...


More and more I am hearing "that can only be done by using OpenCPN." That software just gets better and better, and has totally displaced Garmin HomePort and iPad Bluecharts for planning trips. And it's totally free! It is so nice to fire up OpenCPN on my big-screen home computer for planning, and transfer the routes to my tablet running OpenCPN in the cockpit. I also transfer them to the Garmin handheld, so I have the exact same routes on everything. And it's nice to know that my routes on the handheld were actually plotted using NOAA's charts - that eliminates most of the concerns that I have over Garmin's inaccuracies in their charts.


CaptainRahnn said:


> Ok so how do you get an ipad to recieve NMEA data from an autopilot or AIS and what's a wifi multiplexer?


Actually, you want to send data from the chartplotter to the autopilot, not from AP to tablet. The AP can use incoming route, location, and speed information to steer the boat.

The WiFi mux is about the only way to get the data into the iPad. For Windows or Android, you can get data in/out via Bluetooth. For Windows, you could do it by USB, as I described above (maybe Android too, not sure about driver support). The older NMEA 0183 standard is very easy to do on Windows, because it aligns very well with the old RS232 COM ports that Windows/DOC have supported for 30 years. Windows has adapted to USB and Bluetooth by emulating COM in the OS, which takes a lot of the headaches out of it.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I also wanted to share some pics of the RAM mount setup that I have in my cockpit. First, this pic shows the 10" netbook that I have used for the past 3 years. You can see the Garmin handheld also there, always running and recording my tracks. But because the netbook shows AIS output, and I always have a lot of large ships around, I pretty much use the computer display exclusively:










One of the benefits of a Windowing environment is that you can run the chartplotter program twice, with different areas showing, or the same area at different zoom levels. iPads, Androids, and most turnkey chartplotters cannot do this:










Here is my brand new tablet, on my still-covered boat. It's brighter than my netbook (which was already plenty bright for outdoor use), longer battery life, higher resolution, more compact, and easier to waterproof if I need to. You'll note in the pictures that I can also orient it in portrait or landscape mode, depending whether I want longer range to the sides or to the front/back. Also, the RAM mount will pivot 360 degrees around the base, so I can aim the tablet at me no matter where I am sitting in the cockpit. It interfaces with the navigation equipment via Bluetooth, just like my netbook did:


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

TakeFive said:


> One of the benefits of a Windowing environment is that you can run the chartplotter program twice, with different areas showing, or the same area at different zoom levels. No turnkey chartplotter, or even an iPad or Android, can do this


Raymarine Lighthouse does it on my e7d. You can run two "apps" side by side, or the same "app" twice, or run any of them full screen.

Here is an example (from the helpful panbo blog) showing ENC and RNC charts next to each other, but you don't have to mix and match:









With the larger than 7" plotters you can run up to 4 apps. This is also from panbo, showing 3 apps:









I normally run my plotter with charts on the left and data on the right, but sometimes do full screen charts or charts on the left and sonar on the right.

Raymarine also (finally) uses GPX files for waypoints, tracks, and routes, so you can use your favorite planning software at home. Previously you had to convert to their proprietary format.

I have yet to see an iPad (or PC) based solution that works as well in the sunlight, is waterproof when plugged in, and with NMEA 2000 integration for less money than a nice plotter. My plotter gets a lot brighter than the iPad Air, Nexus 7 (either version) or Dell Venue 8 Pro, all of which I have. NMEA 0183 has lower data rates than NMEA 2000 which is annoying in more complex networks, especially if you want to capture speed changes during wind shifts. I like having two displays in the cockpit, a data display near the companionway that can be seen from anywhere and which shows wind and speed, and a plotter by the helm for navigation.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Good points, thanks for correcting me. I overstated my claim when I said "no turnkey plotter..." Clearly the companies are feeling the competition and adding features.

I'm not interested in misleading people with incorrect facts, so I apologize for the sloppiness of that statement.

I've done my system very inexpensively, but it has taken some (a lot) of configuring. However, after the initial effort it has been reliable. However, a "turnkey" system will probably be easier to configure for many users. I do believe that it comes at a greater cost, though, especially with tablets getting so much better and so much cheaper at a very fast rate.

I considered the Venue 8 Pro for my system, but the Miix2 8" had a 40% brighter screen (534 vs 377 lux, laptopmag.com and confirmed in person at my local Microsoft Store). The Miix2 also has an internal GPS, which the Venue 8 Pro lacks. On my boat, the Miix gets GPS (and AIS) from Bluetooth, but on other boats I can activate the internal GPS for the chartplotter app.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Yes, I wouldn't recommend the Dell Venue 8 Pro as a plotter tablet either. I use it at work, not on the boat. At $200 (a frequent sale price) it is much cheaper than the other Windows 8.1 tablets, and so far the Dell, Lenovo, and ASUS have all used similar hardware.

For a cheap boat tablet with basic GPS/plotting features and nothing else I'd recommend the Nexus 7. It has a built in GPS, a used 2012 version can be had for under $150, and Navionics "phone" version is $15 for full charts for the US and Canada and runs well on them (you don't need the $50 tablet version). It has a built in GPS. When you upgrade to a full plotter you can use this as a remote display (a feature found on all major plotters these days).

I believe that most 7" and larger plotters will allow you to run multiple "apps" side by side.

Edit: From a quick scan it looks like the screen brightness on the e7 is 1000 cd/m^2, which is the same as 1000 lux measured at 1 meter. That's a big jump from 534 on your Miix, 411 on the iPad Air, or 531 on the Nexus 7.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Alex W said:


> Yes, I wouldn't recommend the Dell Venue 8 Pro as a plotter tablet either. I use it at work, not on the boat.
> 
> For a cheap boat tablet with basic GPS/plotting features and nothing else I'd recommend the Nexus 7. It has a built in GPS, a used 2012 version can be had for under $150, and Navionics "phone" version is $15 for full charts for the US and Canada and runs well on them (you don't need the $50 tablet version). It has a built in GPS. When you upgrade to a full plotter you can use this as a remote display (a feature found on all major plotters these days)...


Yes, I've been tempted to buy the Navionics app for my Android phone, and have read the comments that the phone version works great on the 7" tablets. The Nexus 7/Navionics is a great combination that gives everything a handheld GPS does with a much bigger screen for less money. I'm not sure, but I do think that the 2013 version of Nexus 7 may have a brighter screen than the 2012 version.

I am very partial toward OpenCPN (Windows/Linux/Mac), but I agree that N7/Navionics is a great low-cost option.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Alex W said:


> Edit: From a quick scan it looks like the screen brightness on the e7 is 1000 cd/m^2, which is the same as 1000 lux measured at 1 meter. That's a big jump from 534 on your Miix, 411 on the iPad Air, or 531 on the Nexus 7.


Yes, for at least $1000 more than the Miix or N7.

When comparing lux measurements, I try to only use numbers from one source, since measurement methodology can affect the results so much. Too bad laptopmag.com doesn't measure chartplotters.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Laptop Mag doesn't seem to have a page describing how they are measuring, which makes it harder for me to trust them too. It would be nice to have a good comparison, but I don't see one online.

How do you plan on making your Miix waterproof and providing power to it? There are few waterproof cases for tablets that allow you to power the tablet while keeping it waterproof.

The e7 is a bit spendy (I bought mine for $1200), but the a75 has the same basic feature set (minus hard buttons) for under $1000. This makes it pretty comparable to the iPad once you add mounting hardware, GPS, and waterproofing. It is probably cheaper than the iPad once you add NMEA to all of those features. The Raymarine a65 is even cheaper ($620 at West Marine), but drops to a smaller 6" screen. 

Personally I like having the hard buttons on the e7, they work a lot better than any touch screen when wearing the thick lined fishing gloves that I use while sailing in the winter.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

How We Test Laptops for Review- LaptopMag.com

I sail in a flatwater river, so the cockpit always stays dry. The ~one day a year that I get caught in the rain, I move the computer down below (I have a RAM mount down there) and either steer from the companionway with remote (where I can see the computer mounted down below), or use the the waterproof handheld GPS from the helm. But for this new tablet, I have an e-reader pouch made by Travelon that I might use too.

Power is simple. I have a 12v supply coming out of my pedestal. My netbook battery was dying last season, so I used it all the time. Most of my daysails are ~4 hours, so I expect the new tablet battery to last without charging. For longer cruises, I would plug a USB adapter into that, and power the tablet with a micro-USB cable.

We all sail in different conditions, and for different durations, so I realize that something that's good enough for a trifty fair weather daysailor may not be good enough for others.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Ah, I sail in Puget Sound and need to have electronics that can handle getting doused by salt water. In high winds it isn't uncommon to have salt spray coming across the cockpit, and the touchscreen on my plotter often gets salt marks on it. This is a photo that a friend took when sailing here a couple of weeks ago in ~30 knot winds (when wind waves will be 3-4 feet):









That isn't our normal sailing, but it's what I expect my cockpit instruments to handle.

USB cables and power adapters are also not built for this type of exposure, and it doesn't look like your e-reader pouch can pass battery power through while staying waterproof.

Thanks for the link to laptopmag's blog post, I hadn't found it. It doesn't state why they switched from measuring nits to lux though.


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## Frogwatch (Jan 22, 2011)

The "Frogsuit" wetsuit for Ipads will soon be available. Consider this to be a shameless plug for my new product. We have made them for both the ipad and Ipad mini. Only flaw we found was we had the lens opening too small. AT this time, we have not yet made the electrical feedthrus for connections but that is coming soon. I'll post some pics from my office computer tomorrow.


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

I have a Comar NMEA-2-WiFi multiplexer. I believe I paid a little over $200. It's similar to the Brookhouse unit but was cheaper. I went to the website of Comar's US distributor (Milltech Marine) and didn't find it so it may have been discontinued. For better or worse, it seems a lot of NMEA 0183 based gear is quickly disappearing. I might be willing to sell my Comar unit if anyone is interested as I'm actually considering going to NMEA 2000.

As for OpenCPN, I agree that it's a great program and has some amazing capabilities for the price. My only issue with it is that it's not completely straightforward as to how to get up-to-date charts for non-US waters. I see that as a general downside to PC-based solutions as the landscape for non-US charting seems to be fairly confusing unless you're willing to spend a lot of money.

I keep harping on charting because I feel it's an area where tablet based solutions have a ridiculously large but often unacknowledged advantage, especially for those who would want non-US charts. App prices for chart regions range from $20 to usually not more than $50. Compare that to chartplotter chips where the same regions can be $150-200 per. Most apps allow access to the chart for the life of the device and beyond, and provide chart updates at no additional cost. A chart chip for a chartplotter must be repurchased to receive any updates. For people sailing in only US waters, this is not a huge issue if they buy a preloaded plotter, but if you're going to cruise out of the country the costs of all the chips can become astronomical. Tablet charts can theoretically receive updates whenever they get an internet connection while I'd bet that most boaters never update their chartplotters after the initial purchase. Tablets also at this point are much better for taking advantaged of crowdsourced knowledge, which can be hugely helpful and I believe will be a large part of the future of navigation.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I agree with you in general that chartplotter charts can be very expensive. However that appears to be changing as a result of competition from tablets. Raymarine just changed to a new chart system that makes all NOAA charts for the US completely free in both vector and raster format. They made this change work on existing plotters too, not only new ones. They also still support Navionics charts.

Hopefully this spreads to include other regions and we can get free or cheap charts everywhere.

The available free charts are here:
Select Raster or Vector Charts


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Alex W said:


> Ah, I sail in Puget Sound and need to have electronics that can handle getting doused by salt water. In high winds it isn't uncommon to have salt spray coming across the cockpit, and the touchscreen on my plotter often gets salt marks on it. This is a photo that a friend took when sailing here a couple of weeks ago in ~30 knot winds (when wind waves will be 3-4 feet):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Love my dodger but it can only do so much. When it gets like this the iToys stay in the cabin.. The screen visibility of all our iPads (iPad 2, iPad 4 and iPad Air) all SUCK in the daylight compared to our Garmin plotter.......


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I think that it's abundantly clear that if you do heavy duty sailing, you need to spend heavy duty bucks to buy heavy duty gear. If you do mostly light duty sailing in protected waters, you can consider less expensive options, but should make sure to have weatherproof backups for when things get messy.


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## WoobaGooba (Oct 16, 2012)

Preferred setup for me is a fixed on-board plotter (mid range) and a mobile tablet for waypoint/route planning. The plotter is further communicating (NMEA 2K) with the various sensors and on-deck tactical display.

My lithmus test for the planning app is the ability enter a set of race courses (aka routes) as a different combination of the same set of waypoints. I need to be able to do this BOTH GRAPHICALLY FROM THE CHART AND BY USING A PICK LIST OF WAYPOINTS ... then import/export GPX file to/from the plotter. All this is done prior to race day.

The GPX data is loaded on race day or shortly before. Sh.t happens fast during a start sequence, and I prefer the crew not have their heads buried in the electronics. We activate the pre-entered route and then concentrate on sailing fast.

I'm IPad based. Blue Chart Mobile was highly frustrating (I'm being kind), and Garmin did not act on the feedback I provided. I'm currently using iSailGPS. Waypoint and route management is good, but GPX import/export needs some work.

I am curious to try some of the ideas you all have offered.

@TakeFive. OpenCPN running on a Lenovo Mix2, correct? Looks like it has an SD card slot. Good.
@Alex W. Navionics running on a nexus 7 V1 (not a V2). Seems no SD card there?

So much to try, so little time and $$$ 

The Android and iThingy space has indeed influenced the marine electronics space. But as a former product designer, IMO these devices will be supplements, not primaries. Consumer grade gear simply will not meet the requirements for rain, spray, washdown, sunlight view-ability, heat, or even below decks humidity.

Cheers


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

WoobaGooba said:


> ...I am curious to try some of the ideas you all have offered.
> 
> @TakeFive. OpenCPN running on a Lenovo Mix2, correct? Looks like it has an SD card slot. Good.
> @Alex W. Navionics running on a nexus 7 V1 (not a V2). Seems no SD card there?
> ...


Yes, the Miix has a microSD slot. I have also attached additional readers to the microUSB connector.

If you want to try out OpenCPN, no need to buy a tablet. If you have a Windows PC (PC, Linux, or Mac), just download (program and charts), install, and try it out with a mouse.


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## WoobaGooba (Oct 16, 2012)

TakeFive said:


> If you want to try out OpenCPN, no need to buy a tablet. If you have a Windows PC (PC, Linux, or Mac), just download (program and charts), install, and try it out with a mouse.


Yes, thanks. Just loaded and am trying OpenCPN on a Win7 desktop. I'll give it a go with my use cases.

It seems very mouse/keyboard based ... what's the operator experience like on a Win tablet? Still mouse/keyboard centric, or will an IoS touch/swiper like myself feel at home.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

WoobaGooba said:


> @TakeFive. OpenCPN running on a Lenovo Mix2, correct?


I forgot to mention previously that I'm using a Miix 2 8" tablet. It used to be "good enough" to just call it the Miix2, but they have recently come out with 10" and 11" versions of the Miix2. I have not seen full reviews for those yet, and also haven't seen anything in stores, so no idea how their screen brightness is. Also not sure if the new versions have built-in GPS.



WoobaGooba said:


> Yes, thanks. Just loaded and am trying OpenCPN on a Win7 desktop. I'll give it a go with my use cases.
> 
> It seems very mouse/keyboard based ... what's the operator experience like on a Win tablet? Still mouse/keyboard centric, or will an IoS touch/swiper like myself feel at home.


The program was developed for PCs without any forethought to tablets. Their chosen development environment allows for easy porting between Windows, Linux, and Mac OS (thought the latter is a little less than 100% compatible).

Then Windows 8 came out, with a flood of new tablets that run it, and the potential for running existing Windows desktop programs like OpenCPN. The developers recognize a huge potential user base there, and are working on tweaks to the UI to be more tablet friendly. However, from my playing with my new tablet this winter, I can tell you that the program works very well on a tablet as-is. It supports pinch-to-zoom just fine. Some of the on-screen buttons are a little small, but I don't have real fat fingers. The program supports custom buttons, and somebody has posted larger button images, but I haven't bothered to install them yet. There are a few other thigns that need tweaking, but everything can be worked around right now.

I occasionally use a stylus, and for typing-intensive configuration I have a Bluetooth mouse/keyboard. But since initially configuring it, I haven't had to use the mouse/keyboard since.

The guys behind OpenCPN are very impressive, and they are generally responsive to suggestions that stay within the mission of the program.


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## DJR351 (Mar 3, 2010)

This is one of our backups to the main unit which is a Lowrance HDS 10m Gen2 chartplotter.

iPad 2 Wi-Fi 3G running iSailor, iNavX and Plan2Nav, compared to the other two Plan2Nav is rubbish so is never used....

AIS is fed from an ICOM MA-500TR via Brookhouse iMux and works really well...

Waterproof case is military grade and meets or exceeds IP65 and MIL810F. First thing I did when we got the case was stick my better half's old iPad in, turn it on, then sank it in a sink full of water for the night, not a drop got in, and when the iPad was recharged (went flat during the night) it worked perfectly.....

We also have the GoFree WiFi - 1 Module for the Lowrance HDS which allows us to view/control the HDS from the iPad.....

While I think the iPad set up is great for a backup, it does not come close to the purpose built HDS for all round performance, in fact I have yet to see a tablet of any kind that does.....and I have a few lying around.....


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

I'm the same as Alex_W. all of my sailing is in the ocean and I often have spray plus the occasional wave into the cockpit. All the gear in the cockpit has to be 100% waterproof. I run a Garman GPSMAP chartplotter at the helm. In rough weather the ipad is in its bag on the chart table tied down with some shock cord.

Ilenart


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## DJR351 (Mar 3, 2010)

No different over here, frequent trips into the South Pacific requires the same as far as waterproofing goes. Normally my HDS lives on the helm but I would have no problems leaving the iPad there as it to is 100% waterproof...


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## JoeLena (May 14, 2012)

DJR351 said:


> Waterproof case is military grade and meets or exceeds IP65 and MIL810F. First thing I did when we got the case was stick my better half's old iPad in, turn it on, then sank it in a sink full of water for the night, not a drop got in, and when the iPad was recharged (went flat during the night) it worked perfectly.....


Don't be a tease! Specifics on the case and mount. There is so much rubbish out there it is hard to sift through. That setup looks quite nice!


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

JoeLena said:


> Don't be a tease! Specifics on the case and mount. There is so much rubbish out there it is hard to sift through. That setup looks quite nice!


The mounting components are RAM mount. GPScity.com has good prices and fast shipping in the US. I don't recognize the waterproof case, but it appears to be designed specifically to accept the RAM mount ball's hole pattern.


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

DJR351 said:


> No different over here, frequent trips into the South Pacific requires the same as far as waterproofing goes. Normally my HDS lives on the helm but I would have no problems leaving the iPad there as it to is 100% waterproof...


Yes, but after 8 hours how do you charge an ipad at the helm whilst maintaining 100% waterproof? For daytrips and in sheltered waters the ipad works fine. However longer than 8 hours in heavy weather you need something that can be recharged whilst maintaining 100% waterproof. I'm yet to see an ipad bag that didn't require you to break the seal so that a charging cord can be attached.

Plus with the issues of being able to read the ipad in strong sunlight, I do not think it can replace a dedicated chartplotter. A backup fine, but not for primary navigation.

Ilenart


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## DJR351 (Mar 3, 2010)

Ilenart said:


> Yes, but after 8 hours how do you charge an ipad at the helm whilst maintaining 100% waterproof? For daytrips and in sheltered waters the ipad works fine. However longer than 8 hours in heavy weather you need something that can be recharged whilst maintaining 100% waterproof. I'm yet to see an ipad bag that didn't require you to break the seal so that a charging cord can be attached.
> 
> Plus with the issues of being able to read the ipad in strong sunlight, I do not think it can replace a dedicated chartplotter. A backup fine, but not for primary navigation.
> 
> Ilenart


Well sport I guess this will be a revelation for you then won't it, 100% waterproof integrity maintained and can be run indefinitely.....





.....and it works just fine in strong sunshine due to the film in the case, not as good as my HDS, but more than adequate to do the job....


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Ipad in otter box is waterproof and drop proof. The right one. Or lifeproof case.

Here is a system to link your instruments to you ipad

Chetco SeaSmart N2K WiFi Gateway | Blue Heron Marine Electronics

I think the ipad gets my vote. The chips for chartplotters are very expensive but the apps for ipad include all maps for lower cost.

I asked the lady at navionics why it was $50 for the ipad but $200 for a gold chip. She laughed and said because that's what people will pay.

Although I have come around to like garmin, unless you get a garmin like an oregon c model, with built in charts, you have to use all garmin or pay for chips for different devices.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

northoceanbeach said:


> ...Here is a system to link your instruments to you ipad
> 
> Chetco SeaSmart N2K WiFi Gateway | Blue Heron Marine Electronics


Whoa, $680. I'm still looking for that elusive "low-cost WiFi multiplexer" that some people keep mentioning.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

TakeFive said:


> Whoa, $680. I'm still looking for that elusive "low-cost WiFi multiplexer" that some people keep mentioning.


Oh come on, this is making a fun game of "how many boat plotters can I buy for the price of one iPad plotter"?

$680 for the NMEA 2000 multiplexer
$500 for the iPad
$80 for the Dual Bluetooth XGPS
$300 for the Moxiware Tank Case (that is the one shown in this thread)
$50 for Navionics or iNavX
=$1610 total

For that price you can get a 7" Raymarine A75 for the helm, and a 6" A65 as a remote display under the dodger:
A65: $620 at West Marine or Amazon
A75: $980 at Amazon
US charts: free
=$1600 total

For $40 more you can get the A67 and have sonar/fish finder. Is adding full sonar (not just a depth number) even possible with iNavX and the iPad?

Of course that is overkill on most of our boats, the a single plotter for half the money is fine. Likewise the Moxiware Tank Case is probably overkill, there are plenty of <$100 waterproof cases for the iPad with port access.

The system that I'd actually buy is:
A67: $660
charts: free
Raymarine i40 Wind Instrument: $425
Depth Transducer: $100

That gets you all of the basics (except for through-water speed, easy to add) at a reasonable price. I'd much rather have wind instruments then trying to make an iPad marine safe and work in the sun.

No one has mentioned the problems with iPads overheating that are out in the sun. If it happens here in Seattle it has to be even more common in other climates.


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## hereandnow (Jan 25, 2012)

I'm curious to know more about the Brookhouse iMux that one poster suggested. I have had a look at the unit with the multiparty NMEA and Seatalk integration and wireless capability for Up to 6 or so IPads and laptops.

For those using Brookhouse can you advise the pros and the limitations you see and if there is a similar unit on the market you considered purchasing.

I am considering buying Brookhouse integrating my classic C90, AIS, VHF, IPad, laptop and would like to hear your experiences to date.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

hereandnow said:


> I'm curious to know more about the Brookhouse iMux that one poster suggested. I have had a look at the unit with the multiparty NMEA and Seatalk integration and wireless capability for Up to 6 or so IPads and laptops.
> 
> For those using Brookhouse can you advise the pros and the limitations you see and if there is a similar unit on the market you considered purchasing.
> 
> I am considering buying Brookhouse integrating my classic C90, AIS, VHF, IPad, laptop and would like to hear your experiences to date.


Have you found a dealer? Their website lists not dealers, implies that they sell direct only. But they have failed to respond to several emails. Are they even in business any more?


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## hereandnow (Jan 25, 2012)

They only sell direct from what I see-believe from NZ. After a couple of tries I received a reply to my inquiry a couple of weeks back -still in business. Looks like a good unit for what I need -about $360USD.

Just need to get user experiences before buying.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

took along a Ipad in lifeproof with Wavyline charts (inside iNavx) for a transport. Was surprised although it worked as remote dumb terminal ( no AP controls) when interfaced with Raymarine it did not work as stand alone with Wavyline even though other gps programs (apple) worked ok. Was told need to get independent gps receiver to have Ipad work. 
?Is this true? Doesn't seem logical as there is gps in the Ipad.
?Any suggestions on good gps receivers for this purpose
Also can use WIndows laptop for sailmail and getting gribs from ssb/satphone. I don't know if this is even possible with Ipad. If buying one think a laptop offers more options for less money. If worried about environment get a tuff book but for me cheap laptop is fine. Only big advantage for Ipad for me is with night setting can read a book easily on Ipad without totally destroying night vision and its nice way to keep and interface tunes to sound system.


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## hereandnow (Jan 25, 2012)

Try Bad Elf for your GPS - blue tooth support for up 6 devices. Integrates with iNavx app and charts.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

outbound said:


> ...Also can use WIndows laptop for sailmail and getting gribs from ssb/satphone. I don't know if this is even possible with Ipad. If buying one think a laptop offers more options for less money...


Or consider a Win8 tablet, which will run all the same Windows software as your laptop, in a tablet form factor, for less money.


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## Samuelmonosov (Mar 7, 2014)

I run an iPad with a life proof case. It fits right on my Bimini, and I used Velcro to keep it there. I Also got the EarthNC app which has been pretty phenomenal. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Boredop (Feb 21, 2013)

I run an iPad with inavx connected to a brookhouse imux that is connected to an actisense NGW-1 on my nmea 2k backbone. I have 2 Garmin GMI-10's, a Garmin GWS-10 and a DST-800. AIS provided by a standard horizon GX2150. Auto pilot is a raymarine ST-2000. 
All instruments are shown on my Ipad2 in a lifeproof case and AIS targets are plotted as well. XTE data is sent to my autopilot and it will effectively steer to way points plotted on iNavx. I am very happy with the whole setup and with a used Ipad2 costing a fraction of a plotter I feel that it has been a very economical solution as well. 
Brookhouse does only seem to sell directly, but I had no problems receiving my product. One of the main reasons I chose the brookhouse product was because of the ais functionality and it's multiplexer functions. It also seemed the only one to be able to actually use the waypoint targets provided by inavx and direct them to the autopilot. 

My 0.02


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## hereandnow (Jan 25, 2012)

I found another Seatalk/NMEA multiplexer -Shipmodul multiplexer Miniplex-2AWi. They have distributors around the world.

Just wondered if anyone has experience with these guys and with their unit ?


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

outbound said:


> ...Was told need to get independent gps receiver to have Ipad work.
> ?Is this true? Doesn't seem logical as there is gps in the Ipad....


If you have the wifi only iPad, it does not have GPS built in. You will need an external GPS. I use the Dual GPS and it works well. The battery life is very good and I've had zero problems staying connected. There's an accompanying app that is used with it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The external bluetooth GPS receiver is also a winner. I also one to have the receiver up top, while you are down below with the ipad. However, I've never actually had signal trouble from down below, without it.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Dual XGPS is the other good bluetooth GPS for iPad. Both it and the Badelf are in the $100 range.

Since our new iPad has GPS built in and I we don't use a tablet as our primary plotter anymore I do have a lightly used Dual XGPS that I'd sell if anyone is interested. Ping me in PM. $50 shipped.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Other features that I love about the iPad is that I can add pictures and notes to locations. For example, while anchored I "pinned" the boat to the location on the app, took a photo of the anchorage and added the photo and notes to the pin.


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## jerryRiggin (Jul 7, 2011)

Nice setup TakeFive. Thanks for the pics. I use Navionics app on the tablet for chart plotting and for navigation- I always have it running even when using the GPS. Great backup!


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## Richardhc (Mar 14, 2014)

Great info Rick. I publish cruising guides to New Caledonia and Vanuatu and would love to see how our guides work on the Miix 2 8. Unfortunately the Miix 2 8 is not yet available in New Caledonia or New Zealand or Australia. Would you be interested in having free copies of our cruising guides to see if our guides work OK on the tablet? If so, please contact me via the contact button on our web site - just search for cruising new caledonia - I'm not allowed to give you my website address or send you a private message.


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## Ben Ellison (Aug 8, 2013)

Fun to see a couple of my Panbo photos here, and fine to use them the way Alex W did.

Rick, would you mind if I used a couple of your photos in an entry about the Miix 2 8?

I also intend to reference this Chartplotter vs iPad discussion, as I think a lot of good points were made on both sides. Overall we're lucky to have so many choices, aren't we?

Regards,

Ben at Panbo


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ben Ellison said:


> Rick, would you mind if I used a couple of your photos in an entry about the Miix 2 8?


Ben,

You're welcome to use my photos, though I may have some better ones elsewhere. I've been much more active on this topic in cruisersforum.com, which hosts the official support forum for OpenCPN. The program's developers have been actively soliciting input for optimizing the program to work on Windows 8 tablets. You may want to look at this thread and this thread, where you'll see some pictures and screenshots, and a lot of comments about the Miix2 8" built-in GPS. Here are a couple of my posts from there (using my "old" ID of RhythmDoctor):



RhythmDoctor said:


> I've had the boat out about 6 times so far this year, with the new Miix2 8" tablet as my primary navigation tool. So I thought I'd post some comments. However, note that my comments are specific to my own sailing situation:
> 
> 
> Small (25') pocket cruiser
> ...





RhythmDoctor said:


> I went sailing today and have a couple of updates about my Miix2 8" that I use in my cockpit.
> 
> The matte finish screen protector that I mentioned in my prior post worked perfectly. It completely eliminated the reflection and glare from the screen, making it much more legible in sunlight. There was no perceptible reduction in the touch sensitivity. Click here to see the screen protectors that I bought.
> 
> ...


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Have inavx as backup on a iPad but have three chart plotters . All can run the ap or serve as " master" in the network. All show radar,ais and other info. Take a sea into your cockpit and even if mounted your tablet is gone. Want one at nav station, under hard dodger and at the wheel. Don't want to be carrying things moving about in weather. 
In fact the tablet is mostly used as a repeater for what's on the mfd screens when lying in a berth and wanting to see what's going on.
Think a tuff book may serve as a primary system if done right but don't want to bet the farm on current generation tablets integrity in the harsh marine environment.
Also carry paper charts - several belts but also suspenders.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Life proof case has worked well for the iPad.


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## bristol299bob (Apr 13, 2011)

Be aware that the iPad can overheat on hot days outside. It's happened to me. I imagine that a case would make it more susceptible to overheat.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

bristol299bob said:


> Be aware that the iPad can overheat on hot days outside. It's happened to me. I imagine that a case would make it more susceptible to overheat.


That happened to me this weekend! Unless you have a shady place to stash it in the cockpit, an iPad probably works better down below.


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## welshwind (Feb 27, 2005)

I have a Raymarine Hybrid Touch 12" Chartplotter at the helm and I have an iPad with RayView and RayControl for down below. From below, I can do anything on my iPad that I can do on the chartplotter. So, it saves me a second display and the wall space down below. But in the cockpit, I prefer the hard-wired approach so I don't have to deal with the battery life issue and the "Sun washing out the display" issue of the iPad.


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## Ben Ellison (Aug 8, 2013)

TakeFive said:


> Ben,
> 
> You're welcome to use my photos, though I may have some better ones elsewhere. I've been much more active on this topic in cruisersforum.com, ...


Thanks, Rick! I'll definitely check out the other discussions.

Best, Ben


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## Magnolia (Dec 21, 2012)

Thanks to everyone who has posted here. Being new at this charting, etc I really appreciate it.

Here's our deal: I do have Navionics on my old phone...can't remember the name of the phone. But, I find the screen a little small to read.

I also have a Garmin GPS76S...again, I find the screen a little small - but will keep this charged up and will work alongside my new Ipad.

I have a MacBook Air and I am thinking of getting an IPad...here's my question:

Which Ipad should I get...I know to get the one with GPS....but what Memory size should I get?

_Also, when using the Ipad, are you all also buying a Data Plan or strictly only using the Wifi capability and not the 3G or 4G capability?_

We will only be cruising around Kentucky Lake for the summer, then, possibly, moving down the Tenn. river...so no offshore for us at this time.

Another question: On the Ipad...what programs should I download...which ones work best? Inav or Navionics? Others?

Thank you so much for your help!!!


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

May want to pick up BWS( blue water sailing ) and Practical Sailor. Both rags have done recent reviews if I recall correctly. INavX seems to be the industry standard. Ignore Sailing, Cruising World etc. - due to advertising they are trying to sell you something. Personally would go with as much memory as you can. Find I stick songs, books, pictures and download maintenance manuals etc. on the pad so it fills up quick.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Magnolia said:


> ...
> 
> Which Ipad should I get...I know to get the one with GPS....but what Memory size should I get?


As much as you can afford. One advantage of the iPad is that it does other things.



Magnolia said:


> _Also, when using the Ipad, are you all also buying a Data Plan or strictly only using the Wifi capability and not the 3G or 4G capability?_


I have the wifi only iPad and bought an external GPS to use with it. No regrets on not spending the extra money for 3G and a data plan. My phone has 3G and if I want to transfer files between them while not in wifi range, I have a bluetooth file transfer app to do that.



Magnolia said:


> Another question: On the Ipad...what programs should I download...which ones work best? Inav or Navionics? Others?


I love, LOVE the Garmin Bluechart app. Others find it difficult. With the money you saved not buying the 3G iPad  download several and see which works for you. I think I have about four on my iPad but only use the Garmin. I stuck with the one that I figured out the quickest how to use to navigate. The other bells and whistles are a happy extra.

Also, don't forget the weather apps. There are some extraordinary weather, wind, and radar apps available. I consider them important to my navigation.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

sailing weather or NOAA/NWS for a quick peak and any one of the programs showing grib files seem to be quite good. Also download Annapolis Sailing book or Chapman's. Use Wavy Line in Caribe for charts- works good.
Have fun.


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

Just to clarify, you do not have to pay for 4G data service to use the built in GPS capabilities of the 4G iPad. The WiFi only iPad does not have built in GPS. The cost difference is $129. The add on external GPS unit that is required for navigation with the WiFi only iPad starts around $100, so you don't save much by buying the WiFi unit.

I've had the iPad for a few years now and like it well enough but honestly, if it wasn't for iNavX and Garmin BlueChart Mobile being iOS only, I'd probably be very tempted to jump to an Android or Windows based tablet. The selection of nav apps for Android seems to be particularly lacking, which I thought would have started to change by now, especially with more and more waterproof devices being released on that platform. I like that many windows tablets and convertibles can operate as a full fledged PC and run OpenCPN and lots of other traditional PC nav software. I hope the other platforms also move away from the separation that now exists between apps and regular software.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

4arch said:


> Just to clarify, you do not have to pay for 4G data service to use the built in GPS capabilities of the 4G iPad. The WiFi only iPad does not have built in GPS. The cost difference is $129. The add on external GPS unit that is required for navigation with the WiFi only iPad starts around $100, so you don't save much by buying the WiFi unit.
> 
> I've had the iPad for a few years now and like it well enough but honestly, if it wasn't for iNavX and Garmin BlueChart Mobile being iOS only, I'd probably be very tempted to jump to an Android or Windows based tablet. The selection of nav apps for Android seems to be particularly lacking, which I thought would have started to change by now, especially with more and more waterproof devices being released on that platform. I like that many windows tablets and convertibles can operate as a full fledged PC and run OpenCPN and lots of other traditional PC nav software. I hope the other platforms also move away from the separation that now exists between apps and regular software.


With the exception of Garmin, I think Android is fine as it has Navonics, and it seems to be the gold standard tablet software for either Android or iOS. While it is not free it is cheap. There are other apps on Android as well like anchor drag alarms. I don't think there are as many as for iOS, but there are equivalents to just about everything, just not a choice of 20. I think Google Glass has a real opportunity to change the Android market as well, without having to even have a display could be cool. No complaining about big mounts on the binical, just a pair of sunglasses. Biggest issue is they are expensive now, $1500. I got an invitation to get a developers set but can't justify 1500 at this point. My understanding is that the display on them works quite well with sunglasses in the sun. That is the biggest drawback of any tablet is full sun visibility. But there is basically no reason the glass won't come down to a 4 or 5 hundred bucks in the near future as there is nothing terribly complicated about it as it is basically a smartphone with a heads up display. I could see usable copies being a couple hundred dollars.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

4arch said:


> ...I like that many windows tablets and convertibles can operate as a full fledged PC and run OpenCPN and lots of other traditional PC nav software. I hope the other platforms also move away from the separation that now exists between apps and regular software.


For all the pot-shots that people have taken at Windows 8, the ability to run both Metro apps and legacy programs on a tablet form factor is a huge plus for those of us who want that capability. Microsoft does not get enough credit for having the foresight to build this capability into their tablets.

FWIW, I can't imagine why anyone who wants to use their iPad as a GPS device would purchases a WiFi-only version. An external dongle is OK if you already have a WiFi only model that you want to retrofit, but if you're buying new it just doesn't make any sense to buy the WiFi only model. I guess some people refuse to let go of the (incorrect) notion that you need to buy a data plan for the GPS to work.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

CaptainRahnn said:


> Chart plotter or IPad
> Thanks


Redundancy is good. we have three, and all work independently from reach other. 
1, chartplotter
2. iPad or iPhone
3. Garmin 78SC

When lightning is around, I turn off except one.


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## Magnolia (Dec 21, 2012)

4arch said:


> Just to clarify, you do not have to pay for 4G data service to use the built in GPS capabilities of the 4G iPad.


Thank you, I did not know this.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

As has been said, you don't need to get a data plan with the 4G iPad.

And if you do, there's no contract. It's just month to month, so you could go without a data plan for 11 months, then in July decide you want to be able to download weather and pay the $15 for that month only.


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## rhpike (Apr 6, 2009)

I love my iPad 2 and the Navionics app. I just need to remember that the app and it's routes are in degrees True, as the app does not account for mag Variation. So, you need to apply variation the any courses created on the app if you plan to follow your regular compass while on that route. If you follow the route on the iPad, your are ok, but on old timer like me follows the compass.


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## rhpike (Apr 6, 2009)

On the other hand, my Raymarine E-80 chart plotter has a Navionics Gold chip, and it accounts for variation. That is handled through the Raymarine setup menu.


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

Since this thread is a year and a half old (eons in electronics) can anyone offer an update on current tablet technology? I may run with some of these suggestions for use with NMEA, but maybe a more current review would help. Sunlight visibility is probably my top priority.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

I asked a similar question (all in one thread) and have since bit the bullet and talked directly to multiple salespeople (yuk). ALL the major brands do this now. They all claim to be as good as one another, but the anecdotal evidence favors Garmin as people seem to find the app/interface easier and the refresh rate better, but several of the people selling multiple systems all pointed me to different ones, so either they are each getting their own kickbacks, or they are all really comparable. I'm still going back and forth between Garmin, B&G/Simrad and raymarine. I think I've decided to stick my hands in my pockets and wait a couple seasons. I'm old fashioned and like paper anyway.


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## NJ Mc Call (Sep 21, 2015)

Thanks to all that contributed to this extremely informative thread. As someone that still has a foot in the 20th Century using a pencil, paper, and ruler. Last time I used my cell phone 3/2/05, no tablet you have no idea how enlightening this was. I'm not totally in the dark ages having a desktop, 2 laptops and 3 antic GPS.

Thank you for giving this curmudgeon ideas on how to move up to the 21st Century.

Norm


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

How do you get your radar information on the I-pod screen, and how do you connect your autopilot to the I-pod? Two more questions, how does it do in direct sunlight, and how does it function when you are 50 miles offshore? I just took my Kindle Fire HD outside and in direct sunlight you cannot see anything on the display.

Gary


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

You can try this at home. Get your fingers nice and wet under a tap, then try and work the Ipad touch screen. Doesn't work, does it?

Until the answer to this question is "yes", Idevices are unsuitable for a primary navigation device.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

MarkSF said:


> You can try this at home. Get your fingers nice and wet under a tap, then try and work the Ipad touch screen. Doesn't work, does it?
> 
> Until the answer to this question is "yes", Idevices are unsuitable for a primary navigation device.


As are touchscreen plotters located in the cockpit...

I recently sailed a V-42 in the Caribbean 1500, equipped with the LATEST & GREATEST Garmin touchscreen plotter/radar mounted on a massive Nav-Pod tower at the helm... (I know, don't get me started, a V-42 cockpit is small enough as it is... ;-))

Trying to use the stupid thing in any sort of weather was an incredible PITA. Attempting to open an AIS target, for instance, to acquire the information, often required a dozen or more separate "taps" on the screen, before one _MIGHT_ finally work... Even with fingers that were completely dry, it seemed once the screen was 'contaminated' with any degree of moisture or salt air, it could become unworkable. And, on more than one occasion, while I had no luck clicking on an icon with my finger, a new one would be created by the inadvertent touch of the cuff of my foul weather jacket on the screen...

Final straw came during the last 2 nights of the trip, when dealing with some very heavy squalls. Despite being situated beneath a low cockpit bimini (don't get me started on _THAT_ piece of crap ;-)) _the heavy RAINDROPS being driven by the wind onto the plotter screen WERE LIGHTING UP THE SCREEN WITH NEW ICONS, WAITING TO BE SAVED AS WAYPOINTS !_

UFB... But, I'm sure they work great at the display booth inside the tent at the boat shows...

;-)


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## Exile1 (Sep 21, 2010)

JonEisberg said:


> As are touchscreen plotters located in the cockpit...
> 
> I recently sailed a V-42 in the Caribbean 1500, equipped with the LATEST & GREATEST Garmin touchscreen plotter/radar mounted on a massive Nav-Pod tower at the helm... (I know, don't get me started, a V-42 cockpit is small enough as it is... ;-))
> 
> ...


With your "raindropped waypoints," it's little wonder I've recently started to see new plotters which offer both touchscreen and push-button functionality. Hope there's still a push-button option by the time I may need to replace mine.

Just did Mark's suggested tap water test on my iPad2 and, to my surprise, it still worked! But mine is probably several generations old at this point, so YMMV. Besides, tap water is one thing, salt-encrusted could be quite another. I have several nav apps installed which all work well, but my latest fav is Polar Navy. The resolution in bright sunlight is not good, but I mainly use it under the dodger or down below (as a secondary plotter), so not a problem. I hear the newer ones are better resolution-wise, but still probably not as good as a primary plotter. Btw, mine will shut itself down if its warm and exposed to direct sunlight, so if you're someone like me who prefers sailing w/o a bimini then take note. It recovers pretty fast once in the shade, but there's little warning. And yes, the nav apps will work offshore/outside of cell range, provided the tablet has a built-in GPS receiver. At the time I purchased my iPad2, this meant buying one with both wifi and cellular capability, but that may have been an Apple thing.

There's also wireless integration available now, for example to allow you to transfer waypts., routes, tracks, AIS from your primary plotter to your tablet or phone, and vice-versa. Some of the Vesper and other AIS transceivers offer this capability via wifi. Not really convinced the transfer capability is really worth it, but it is now more easily available. Not sure about getting radar & AP to function on a device yet, but I'm sure it's coming.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

The ithingys are all heat driven, which is why the iPad or iPhone can be used underwater with a proper case. No idea how the Garmins or others are done.


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## Exile1 (Sep 21, 2010)

seaner97 said:


> The ithingys are all heat driven, which is why the iPad or iPhone can be used underwater with a proper case. No idea how the Garmins or others are done.


I have covers for my ithingys made by Lifeproof. Supposed to be shock resistant and waterproof down to X number of feet for Y number of minutes. Nice covers, but no plans to test their underwater claims. Not intentionally anyway . . . .


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Exile1 said:


> I have covers for my ithingys made by Lifeproof. Supposed to be shock resistant and waterproof down to X number of feet for Y number of minutes. Nice covers, but no plans to test their underwater claims. Not intentionally anyway . . . .


Same here. Expensive buggers and I'm near an upgrade to both the phone and tablet and they're non-compatible. Typical with technology.

The only irony with making these waterproof is they still don't float. I think you can get a huge flotation jacket for them, but then I can't slip the phone in my pocket.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

seaner97 said:


> The ithingys are all heat driven, which is why the iPad or iPhone can be used underwater with a proper case. No idea how the Garmins or others are done.


It's not heat, they're capacitance driven. I'm not exactly sure how that works underwater or through cases, but I do know it's capacitance.

Here in the great frozen north (well, not frozen today, crazy warm actually, high of 46ºF) touchscreen winter gloves are popular. They have metal woven in to the fingertips so you can still use your phone while wearing gloves.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

Minnesail said:


> seaner97 said:
> 
> 
> > The ithingys are all heat driven, which is why the iPad or iPhone can be used underwater with a proper case. No idea how the Garmins or others are done.
> ...


Hmm... If true, why don't they work when my fingers are cold? A hot dog out of the fridge should work if based on capacitance. Same as a saw stop. Could be the non Apple ones are capacitance.
Edit- you're right. I'm wrong. iDive case is pressurized allowing capacitance to still work. The issue with cold fingers is actually a sensitivity issue of the screen being detuned so Jon's Garmin issues don't occur.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Most consumer phone and tablet touchscreen are capacitance, as pointed out already. It's a far superior technology for the average landlubber because of greater sensitivity and speed. But since water has capacitance too, it's lousy for marine environment. A waterproof case will prevent damage to the device, but it won't prevent the confusion that comes with the device thinking those multiple water drops are a multi-touch gesture.

Older devices, like the original Palm Pilots and some cheap phones, were based on resistive technology. It's much slower because it requires a harder push. And when you push hard your fingertip flattens, so it loses resolution in the touch. So it's lousy for things like typing out words. But it's fine for tapping on a single item (instead of multiple characters for a paragraph), and it has the huge benefit of being insensitive to water drops. For this reason, Garmin's touch screen devices are based on resistive touchscreen (at least, every one I've seen is).

My Windows tablets with capacitive touchscreen work great, but I do very little sailing in wet conditions. I keep a Garmin handheld available for rainy conditions.


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## goat (Feb 23, 2014)

Minnesail said:


> It's not heat, they're capacitance driven. I'm not exactly sure how that works underwater or through cases, but I do know it's capacitance.
> 
> Here in the great frozen north (well, not frozen today, crazy warm actually, high of 46ºF) touchscreen winter gloves are popular. They have metal woven in to the fingertips so you can still use your phone while wearing gloves.


I bought a pair of these a few years ago for my touch screen plotter in fall weather. Worked great on the screen, put black dye stains wherever the goat skin palms touched the boat. Less than impressed.

Men's Sensor Gloves | Outdoor Research | Designed By Adventure | Outdoor Clothing & Gear

goat


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## Fog Bank (Apr 2, 2015)

After the tragic death of my handheld GPS, which served as a backup for the plotter, I decided to see what other options are out there. This led me to the Bad Elf 1008. It's a device that plugs into the iPad using the lightening connector. That in combination with INavX seems to do the trick. My reasoning for going this way was simple; the iPad is always aboard anyway.

As I use this combo a bit more I'll update my findings.


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## Exile1 (Sep 21, 2010)

Fog Bank said:


> After the tragic death of my handheld GPS, which served as a backup for the plotter, I decided to see what other options are out there. This led me to the *Bad Elf 1008*. It's a device that plugs into the iPad using the lightening connector. That in combination with INavX seems to do the trick. My reasoning for going this way was simple; the iPad is always aboard anyway.
> 
> As I use this combo a bit more I'll update my findings.


I take it this is a GPS device, which your iPad didn't already have? Kind of like the "pucks" that are bought for laptops?


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## Fog Bank (Apr 2, 2015)

Exile1 said:


> I take it this is a GPS device, which your iPad didn't already have? Kind of like the "pucks" that are bought for laptops?


Yes, it is a puck, about the size of a keychain. For the most part, my iPad is simply an entertainment consumption device, so I opted for the wifi only model.


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