# Gulf 32 Sail Plan Heavy Weather



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Have a, new to me, Gulf 32 with a 150 geneoa and am planning a San Diego to Puget Sound up the west coast adventure this summer. Wondering if anyone has any ideas about jib vs geneoa or even adding a staysail? Gulf 32 is a full keel pilot house (read sloop rigged trawler) unless I get some suggestions.


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

For that type of trip, I would think you must have a second, smaller jib, around a 100% for sailing in breezes say 18-30. You should also have storm sails, unless you plan to never be more than a few hours from a port with guaranteed entrance (sounds not likely). Storms sails IMHO would involve a storm jib with a removeable inner forestay and a storm trysail or a three reef main.

Good luck.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

If your genoa is set off a furler then a staysail is a nice idea even if it only used as a storm jib. It enables you to completely roll away your genoa and snugs the rig up nicely towards the centre of the boat. That coupled with a storm trisail setting on a dedicated track when you have dropped you main makes for a pretty good storm rig. Theoretically should be perfect for heaving to. If your boat does not have an existing inner forestay it is best if you rig it up so that it can be removed when not in use. Largish genoas tend to get hung up on inner forestays so they can be a right pain in the arse at times. Should you decide to go ahead and fit an inner forestay to a boat that is not currently so equipped make sure, make very sure, that you have the deck beefed up under the pad. 

ps - tsingtao ? Wonderful beer but does your user name mean something else besides seriously yummy chinese beer ?


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

tdw said:


> ps - tsingtao ? Wonderful beer but does your user name mean something else besides seriously yummy chinese beer ?


Ha !! It's also the name of your boat, isn't it ?

Ah google, what we do without it.


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

tdw said:


> If your genoa is set off a furler than a staysail is a nice idea even if it only used as a storm jib. ....


A sail usable as a staysail would be too large and of too light a fabric to serve as a storm sail. A storm sail would be to small and too heavy to be of any use as a staysail.

I've not run a rig with a staysail, but I would think one might serve as the 100% jib I suggest, I'm just not sure such a sail would offer much performance utility for the cost/aggravation.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Good beer, good boat and good suggestions. The stay sail / jib issue is exactly what I'm debating. First thought was removable stay--90 or 100 jib just as useful?? Or need both??


----------



## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

As a rule of thumb the standard sails cater for about 15 knots of wind. The force goes up with the square of the windspeed.
In light conditions you could have 4x the standard sail area. This is impractical.
The 150 genoa is only designed to go up to probably 10 knots max.
Your problem will be to reduce sail area for increased winds.
Say from 15 with a jib to 20 halve the sail area, at 25 a third the area at 30 a quarter.
So if you have 400 at 15, by 25 you have 130 by 30 you have 100. That is probably a storm jib and two reefs.
You need a jib and stormjib. Most people underestimate just how much and how quickly they have to reduce sail area.
As you have a roller furler, you could use a staysail instead of a jib.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

If your genoa is on a furler, it might be worthwhile to get a GaleSail, which is a storm jib that hanks on over a furled headsail and prevents it from unfurling while working as a storm sail. I have a 60 sq. ft. one on my boat...


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailingfool said:


> A sail usable as a staysail would be too large and of too light a fabric to serve as a storm sail. A storm sail would be to small and too heavy to be of any use as a staysail.
> 
> I've not run a rig with a staysail, but I would think one might serve as the 100% jib I suggest, I'm just not sure such a sail would offer much performance utility for the cost/aggravation.


Yes, poor wording on my part. I was meaning to suggest that the sail set on the inner forestay would be a storm jib (SJ) and not a working jib.

On Raven we have an overlaping genoa on a furler, with a removeable inner forestay on which we set , when required, a storm jib. We've never used a working jib on the inner, in fact, we've never had to use the storm sail in anger. The worst conditions we have been caught in have been handled by reefing the main and partially furling the genoa. It would take a mighty blow for us to need to raise the SJ indeed it is my belief (backed up by the conditon of the sail) that in 20 years of service with us and previous owners the SJ has only been out of it's bag for interest's sake.

Apologies if I confused the issue.


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

tdw said:


> Yes, poor wording on my part. I was meaning to suggest that the sail set on the inner forestay would be a storm jib (SJ) and not a working jib.
> 
> On Raven we have an overlaping genoa on a furler, with a removeable inner forestay on which we set , when required, a storm jib. We've never used a working jib on the inner, in fact, we've never had to use the storm sail in anger. The worst conditions we have been caught in have been handled by reefing the main and partially furling the genoa. It would take a mighty blow for us to need to raise the SJ indeed it is my belief (backed up by the conditon of the sail) that in 20 years of service with us and previous owners the SJ has only been out of it's bag for interest's sake.
> 
> Apologies if I confused the issue.


Makes sense now. I personally don't like partially furling a sail, other than for a short sprint home, so carry 150/125/85/storm jibs so I can use an appropriate size jib for the conditions, although the 150 is often left at home.

Ditto on your storm jib comment.


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

You will want a smaller jib of some sort, as the summer breezes for the most part come out of the north, at least up here in Wa they do. So you will be heading into the wind one heck of a lot, if not most of the time coming up the coast. Many folks in reality, will sail to hawaii, then north to puget sound from S Ca, and make it just as fast as coming up the coast. Going south down the coast is easy in the summer, stick out a spinaker, and enjoy! Early day will be light winds, then about noon to a couple of hrs before sunset the wind will be 10-15, with gusts to 20 at most. Some days will be fog in AM , sunny in PM. 

Have fun on the trip.

Marty


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailingfool said:


> Makes sense now. I personally don't like partially furling a sail, other than for a short sprint home, so carry 150/125/85/storm jibs so I can use an appropriate size jib for the conditions, although the 150 is often left at home.
> 
> Ditto on your storm jib comment.


I think that maybe it depends on the boat. As an example my old boat (full keel, masthead rig,) responded best to a single reefed main and going to a smaller jib but Raven seems to like a double reefed main even with full genoa so it's not often we have to even partially furl the headsail. Flattening a partially furled headsail is a bugger of a thing to achieve, that is for sure and that's definitely the biggest drawback to a furler. If I do get caught out in thirty knot winds then hammering to windward is not something I'd do by choice.


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

*Beating in 30*



tdw said:


> ....If I do get caught out in thirty knot winds then hammering to windward is not something I'd do by choice.


If you have a small jib like the 85% you should try it. With the 85% and a double reef, it a real hoot to beat upwind in 25-30 and actually a very nice ride, I think better than running in the same conditions. If the water is real cold, its only fun for a while, if the water is warm, its fun all day.


----------



## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

On our 34' pilothouse we have a 130 genoa on a furler and we had a very heavy, high clew 90 jib made. Have found this covers most conditions, both winter and summer here in the NW. Installing an inner forestay is a big, expensive project that I would only consider if going offshore for an extended time(I'd love to have it though). If you watch the weather and plan your trip well you shouldn't have too much trouble, but be ready to head in if it sounds like it's going to kick up. A three reef main is a very good idea, and makes for a balanced rig when you have the heavy weather jib furled in a bit.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

My main does have 3 reefs. Sounds like the best approach is to go with a 100 to 110 jib made for roler furling--roll it up, put in 3 reefs and have fun. Appreciate all the input!!!


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailingfool said:


> If you have a small jib like the 85% you should try it. With the 85% and a double reef, it a real hoot to beat upwind in 25-30 and actually a very nice ride, I think better than running in the same conditions. If the water is real cold, its only fun for a while, if the water is warm, its fun all day.


To be honest it's something I quite enjoy, maybe not in excess of 30 knots but certainly in high 20s. Your post makes me think that maybe on a day like that I should try a combination of a reefed main with the storm jib. If that vaguely worked then I might consider getting an extra sail that is more a working jib but one that sets off the inner forestay to use in combo with the reefed main. might be an interesting experiment.

Uphill bashing is fine on a day sail. I'm not so sure I'd want to be doing it for multi days in a row.


----------



## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

Your difficulty wombat is that you seem to be unbalanced, and the experiment would make it worse.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

chris_gee said:


> Your difficulty wombat is that you seem to be unbalanced, and the experiment would make it worse.


I don't know ! It is of great concern to me mum when people say things like that about her favourite pup. I will have you know that I am no more unbalanced than ....than....hmm...OK...never mind for now. I'll get back to you. My hinge needs seems to be becoming un.


----------

