# Steel sailboat designs



## PeterSailer (Mar 20, 2010)

I really like the idea of a steel sailboat... especially their ability to survive 
collisions.










I think that the biggest risk while cruising is having a collision with a ship or just some junk floating around. And I got to admit, that's what worry me the most...
You can prepare your self for heavy weather but you can't do much about hitting a submerge container and punching a big hole in the hull in the middle of the night 

So I've been looking for steel sailboat in the 28-33 ft range. Best size for me would be 30ft. I only found 1 or 2 steel sailboat that I like, all the other one are just way too beamy...12 ft beam for a 32 ft sailboat...can't be good for going up wind in a blow. ( Spray 28 and 33 )

So here is my question, anybody know some good steel sailboat models/designs?

I already know that those boats requirer a lot of maintenence and that small steel sailboat are slow and heavy but IMHO it's a good trade off for peace of mind.


----------



## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Wow, what an endorsement.

My understanding of steel is that it is almost as maintenance intensive as wood. You have to pull her out once a year or so for repaint or touch up.


----------



## PeterSailer (Mar 20, 2010)

> Wow, what an endorsement.


Yes, a very big one.
This guy is lucky he wasn't sailing a glass boat, I doubt that a glass boat would of survive


----------



## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

Maybe he'd have been more careful in a 'glass boat. Maybe he was down below sandblasting when that buoy just kinda' snuck up on him. (Rust never sleeps.) Maybe his heavy steel hull slowed him down so he couldn't avoid whatever it was that hit him. Because of their weight, steel hulls need to be pretty big to perform well enough to justify using the material. (Small steel boats are slow because they're too heavy for their size, compared to other boats.) Big boats cost more to outfit and to operate, and are more difficult to maneuver. (see above...) Every boat is a balancing act. Steel has some good points, and some downsides.


----------



## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Van der Stadt designed some steel boats around 30 feet see CLICKY

Also this is a good resource Welcome to the Metal Boat Society

BTW does the pic in the OP show a recent incident. I seem to remember seeing a boat named ****** down in Grenada late last year.


----------



## PeterSailer (Mar 20, 2010)

> Van der Stadt designed some steel boats around 30 feet see CLICKY
> 
> Also this is a good resource Welcome to the Metal Boat Society
> 
> BTW does the pic in the OP show a recent incident. I seem to remember seeing a boat named ****** down in Grenada late last year.


The pic is not that recent, but I don't know when it happened.
Thanks for the info, I hadn't found that metal boat Society before.



> Maybe he'd have been more careful in a 'glass boat. Maybe he was down below sandblasting when that buoy just kinda' snuck up on him. (Rust never sleeps.) Maybe his heavy steel hull slowed him down so he couldn't avoid whatever it was that hit him. Because of their weight, steel hulls need to be pretty big to perform well enough to justify using the material. (Small steel boats are slow because they're too heavy for their size, compared to other boats.) Big boats cost more to outfit and to operate, and are more difficult to maneuver. (see above...) Every boat is a balancing act. Steel has some good points, and some downsides.


Yeah I know that they are slow and need a lots of maintenance but like I said before I think it's a fair trade off for peace of mind.

I only found 2 steel sailboats that would suit my needs, so i'm not even sure yet that i'm gonna buy one... I'm just exploring all the possibilities.


----------



## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

That picture of ****** is nothing. Back around 1980 a steel sailboat got broadsided by a freighter. The dent was 9 feet deep! The boat was bent like a banana. The guy sailed it home.

You should take a look a Brent Swain Origami construction boat. There is an Origami Boat forum on Yahoo! with lots of pictures and stuff. I sailed on a 36 footer and was very impressed with the way it sailed. Steel used to be lot of maintenance, but with modern epoxy coatings that is no longer true. They also do things like weld in a little stainless anywhere you might get rubbing or chafe. Then when the paint wears off it still doesn't rust and you don't bother even touching it up.

Gary H. Lucas


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Thought I had posted something yesterday on this but seems that post has gone a roaming.

The Womboat is a steel Van de Stadt 34. (Van de Stadt Design - Van de Stadt 34) Do we like her ? Yes we do. Would I go out of my way to buy another steel boat ? No I wouldn't. In fact we bought her despite the fact she was steel, not because of it.

Van de Stadt do design a whole range of quite desirable boats that can be built in steel, wood or aluminium. Beth Leonard and Evans Starzinger (Beth & Evans) built a VDS47 in aluminium.

Especially with smaller craft the advantages of steel are ultimately overwhelmed by it's weight. Compared to the aluminium or wood versions we displace nearly 1t more yet carry 200kg less in the keel. I'd never pretend that Raven is a fast boat though she is no sluggard. However her non steel sisters are generally speaking going to be faster.

Now the VDS34 is a relatively modern design. Her limitations brought on by steel construction detract from what is an essentially good design. Go to something like a Roberts Spray and you are going to end up with a sailing brick, particularly if you go for a small one.

As for maintenance, there is really no denying that a steel boat is maintenance intensive and you have to be constantly on the alert for potential problems. That said, provided the basic construction and materials are good I don't think steel is as bad as traditinal timber planked.

PeterSailor ... what where the two options you mention ?


----------



## PeterSailer (Mar 20, 2010)

> PeterSailor ... what where the two options you mention ?


The two designs are: Mason 33 and the tom thumb 305.

My favorite one is the mason 33 which has a low free board, small beam and a reasonable draft ( around 5 ft I think ). I only saw two of these on the internet so the chances that I can find one for sale in 1 or 2 year are pretty thin...

The other one is a Bruce Robert tom thumb 305, IMHO the tom thumb look far better then the other full keeler designed by Bruce, but they are still quite beamy(11') for their length(30'4'')... That combined with the shoal draft(4'6'') is just IMHO not good at all to crawl off a lee shore in a blow with a nasty chop...
I was curious to find a few picture of that boat but couldn't, I only saw a small plan on the Bruce Robert web site.

After a few days searching all over the web, I think that I will stick with the glass sailboat because I can't find any steel sailboat with my critaria....and there is way more boat to chose from in fiber glass.

Here is the link to one of the two mason 33 that I found.

1968 Mason Mason 33 steel sailboat for sale in New York


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

What is your current boat ? Doesn't tell me on your profile and I don't recognise the design.

I confess I have never been a fan of Roberts. Seems to me originality is not his strong point and many of his designs are somewhat clunky to my eye. Nonetheless plenty of people who have owned a Roberts seem/have seemed to be perfectly happy.

For a boat of its type the Mason looks OK to me but hey, I am no Jeff Halpern. To be frank I am over full keels. Having owned both a full keeler and more lately a fin keeler there is no way I'd willingly go back though I was perfectly happy when I had one .. except when reversing the bugger under power.



PeterSailer said:


> The two designs are: Mason 33 and the tom thumb 305.
> 
> My favorite one is the mason 33 which has a low free board, small beam and a reasonable draft ( around 5 ft I think ). I only saw two of these on the internet so the chances that I can find one for sale in 1 or 2 year are pretty thin...
> 
> ...


----------



## PeterSailer (Mar 20, 2010)

> What is your current boat ?


This is my father's Cal 34, I've been sailing with him for 6 year now and I will soon join the Canadian Forces and I *need* a sailboat... I also bought my self a nordica 16 a few year ago ( i know i know, but I was working part time at mc Donald's after school hours  ) and I'm sick and tired of sailing a very small sailboat without a self baling cockpit... after all, i'm used to sail a 34 footer.



> I confess I have never been a fan of Roberts.


I never really like the Roberts either, I like narrow, low free board sailboat way better.

Can I ask you why you wouldn't go back to a full keel?

If I end up without a full keel, I you have some thing like a Contessa 32, I think they're great boat.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

PeterSailer said:


> This is my father's Cal 34, I've been sailing with him for 6 year now and I will soon join the Canadian Forces and I *need* a sailboat... I also bought my self a nordica 16 a few year ago ( i know i know, but I was working part time at mc Donald's after school hours  ) and I'm sick and tired of sailing a very small sailboat without a self baling cockpit... after all, i'm used to sail a 34 footer.
> 
> I never really like the Roberts either, I like narrow, low free board sailboat way better.
> 
> ...


It just seems to me that the purported advantages of a full keel are somewhat illusary. Our fin keel VDS is no more difficult to sail in any of the conditions we have been in than our old full keeler, she is certainly every bit as directionally stable in any wind as the older girl while the fin keel has several advantages over the full such as overall better performance particularly to windward, downwind in a following swell and of under motor in reverse. Of course she is skegless. If she had a skeg the motor thing would not apply as much but our old full keeler was utterly uncontrollable in reverse.

Contessa 32 ? Fine and dandy. One of my favourite boats from way back then. Bit tight for this tired old body to squeeze into for long term cruising but for a young bloke, why not. That presumes of course you realise she is not fast compared to modern designs but I'm guessing you know that.

I'd much rather a Contessa or the like and run the risk of whacking that floating container than be forced to put up with a slow old tub like a Roberts TT. Maybe I am kidding myself but I somehow feel that the semi submerged container is waiting for you scare is just another bogey man sent to spread panic amongst the women, children and small furry marsupials.

I'd still love to know what is was that clobbered ******.


----------



## ManfredOrlow (Apr 25, 2010)

*Trintella?*

Years ago we bought a 28' steel-hulled dutch sloop from Anne Wever builders of Hertogenbosch Holland. Ot was absolutely gorgeous and sailed wonderfully. Everything was so solid and the interior was a masterpiece of joinerwork. Since then, Ron Holland in the United Kingdom has built Trintellas, although most are bigger, but it's worthwhile exploring on the used-boat market.
Unfortunately a used one was recently scrapped by the yard due to lack of interest in the boat. What a shame.

Manfred Orlow
Dayton OH


----------



## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

What can you that have owned a steel boat tell me about maintenance? Is it true that the boat needs to be hauled yearly for paint?


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

tomperanteau said:


> What can you that have owned a steel boat tell me about maintenance? Is it true that the boat needs to be hauled yearly for paint?


Not sure which 'you' you are referring to Tom but in essence yes, or at least every 18 months but its more to do with anodes than paint.

We've hauled Raven every year since we bought but I'm stretching it to 18 months this time cos I want to change the time of year we haul. Anodes were still good when I had a diver give us a rub down late last year.


----------



## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Thanks for the response.

I've always been intrigued by steel boats but shied away from them because I perceived the maintenance to be as high as a wood boat. That was the reason for my question. Not sure that we are on our last boat, so our options are still open. Although Ferro is tempting, what I have seen and read has caused us to steer clear of them.


----------



## SVTatia (May 7, 2007)

I have built a steel boat and and cruised extesively (over 40K nm) with no maintenance problems - the boat was built right and with the correct coating systems.

The boat was designed by Ted Brewer (Bulldog 30) and I can attest to its sailing capability and lievaboard comfort.

Please check Ted's site at tedbrewer.com/sail_aluminum/bulldog.htm

This is an aluminum design, but Ted redid it for steel. Wonderfull boat.

Good luck.

Marcelo


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Properly maintained their should be no inherent problems with maintaining a steel boat its true, but generally speaking they do require more work than plastic.

Even then if you have a serious problem one of the glories of a steel boat is that problem areas can be cut out and replaced. If you can weld then hey presto, if not, welders are not all that hard to find, even in remote locations.

Marcelo,
Aptly named that Bulldog. Looks a solid wee beastie. Not a half bad interior for 30'. All the essentials, good galley, good berths. No need to bugger about with a wheel, tiller more than adequate on a boat that size.

These are from Ted Brewers site. Nice boke Ted. Gave me lots of advice when I was thinking of buying one of his.



















As a comparison these are pics and layouts of our boat, the VDS34.




























Image files of "Van de Stadt 34" from

Van de Stadt Design

I still emphasise that we bought Raven despite the fact she was steel, not because of. I seriously doubt we would ever buy another steel boat unless as with the Womboat we found what we wanted and she happened to be steel. My choices from top to bottom would be Aluminium, Cold Moulded Timber, Plastic, Steel, Traditional Wood Construction, Floating Footpath.


----------



## lans0012 (Jul 16, 2008)

*sweet rides*

those pics above are some sweet rides.

My only experience with steel boats is working on my friend's older steel hulled houseboat. It's not that you worry about it rusting through from the outside, but they rust through from the inside in hard to reach places. You need to religiously check the anodes and stay on top of any rust ASAP. Good chance that if you find a used one, the owner will be looking to get rid of it because the rust is getting out of control, and will try to hide the worst spots.

If you do find one get a surveyor with steel boat experience.

IMO an aluminum hulled sailboat would be the bees knees. Still electrolysis is a major problem on aluminum boats, but I think making sure the bottom is painted and touched up is what you worry about and not that it'll rust from the inside out.

Back to houseboats on fresh water, most boatyards won't touch a steel hulled one because their hulls get real thin in spots and can't support their weight on the slings when they get pulled out. Owners are reluctant to let you take it out of the water for survey because of that, and so will you when it comes time for you to sell and get a bigger one(there will come a time).

Pro's....sweet boat, unique, strudy, seaworthy
Con's...expensive, more difficult to maintain, very hard to finance(if you need to), insure, and triple hard to sell, oh and Rust Never Sleeps.

By the way, just finished "Cape Horn to Starboard" about a guy who sailed around Cape Horn against the prevailing winds in a Contessa 32 and it was a great read. A Contessa 32 might be right up your alley too!


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Not to be trite, but the Titanic was steel. Is steel really as necessary as some believe? I've also seen fiberglass sailboats that were rammed in a race and still sailed home all busted up. No doubt that steel is more durable, but I wonder if there is a false sense of security. I suspect a submerged ocean container could rip a hole down the side of a steel vessel as well.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Minnewaska,
Agreed. It is the point I have been trying to make. My belief is that when you take into account the weight of the material itself it is questionable whether steel is a good choice of material.
Given that it is a high maintenance material I don't quite see the point.
As for hitting shipping containers how many steel boats return to port each year with harrowing tales of encounters with containers ? Precious few I'd guess. Its a beat up methinks.


----------

