# knot for mainsail halyard



## FlyingJunior (May 31, 2012)

Hi there - be gentle with me, I'm new! Having crewed on various keelboats for a while, I recently bought a small dinghy sailboat, (FJ, Flying Junior). Anyway, the main halyard does not have a shackle for the head, and it looks like a bowline is the traditional knot used here, but I have issues - the knot hits the block at the masthead, and leaves the head about 4-5 inches from being fully raised, I guess because of the nature of this knot. I've tested using a round turn and two hitches, which seems to work just great and is easy to tie. Thoughts?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Here you go:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...ated/67801-low-profile-main-halyard-knot.html


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## Gary3675 (Jul 17, 2006)

There is another way....Thistle sailors are putting a ball on the end of the haylard...where the shackle would be. 
Look at this site.....this explains it.....very simple and a cheap way to attach your main haylard. I have used this and works great.

attaching ropes to grommets


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

A halyard knot- really similar to a clinch knot without the extra wraps. Used one an entire season with Sta-Set-wire with no problem. There really is no reason I can see why a clinch knot would not work even better although I've never heard anyone mention using one as a halyard attachment. Has a number of different names:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taut-line_hitch

Can't hurt to sew the end back with #92 thread.


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## FlyingJunior (May 31, 2012)

Thanks Gary - where to find the stopper ball, and wouldn't a stopper knot do the same thing?


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## Gary3675 (Jul 17, 2006)

You can find the stopper ball at any marine store...West marine has them. They are the one wth the hole in the middle. Push the line through .... tie a knot and your done. I know this works great for the main haylard.....I have never used a stopper knot


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

Related question for bigger boats: Do you think it will be more likely that I would loose th halyard up the mast without the weight of a shackle? (obviously I would try not to let go, but things happen)


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

We just put a stopper knot at the end of the halyard, then push a bite of the line through the grommet (assuming the grommet is large enough for your line diameter) flip the knot through the loop, pull tight and voila! You will easily be able to hoist all the way to the masthead crane.

Ray


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## FlyingJunior (May 31, 2012)

thanks Irunbird - yes, that's exactly what Gary is doing with the ball, instead of your stopper knot. Sounds good.

Thanks for all the suggestions, here's a thought....since I'm just starting out, I'm thinking perhaps it's better to stay with tying knots on my boat instead of using shackles and stopper balls, etc. I think a sailor has to learn and use these knots regularly, and would worry that (for me) the use of other devices in place of knots might have me forget how to do them, when/if needed down the road. Plus, at least at this point, I kinda enjoy working with knots. I want to practice all elements of sailing, which includes knot tying. Thoughts on this?


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

If you are worried about remembering how to tie knots then you need to buy a 6' piece of line and tie knots while watching TV. One of the things that is important on a sailboat is that there typically is a right way to do things, not doing it right can lead to a tragedy of errors that leads to broken bits. 

Halyard knots are fine, but they are really oly used for, well halyards. The knot you really need to know, blind folded, wet, miserable, in the rain, cold, blindfolded, and drunk is how to tie a bowline. Everything else comes with time. But a bowline is the most knot used, and you aren't a sailor until you can tie one in any conditions.

That being said if you line rope work, there are soft shackles (similar to metal bits it made from line), splicing, and decorative stuff that all needs to be done onboard. You just have to spend the time to learn how. Heck with modern line, even standing rigging and lifelines are switching to line, thus increasing the work you can do yourself.


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## DivingOtter (May 5, 2012)

I use Double Fishermans.


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## FlyingJunior (May 31, 2012)

thanks Stumble, yes, I have a board in my tv room with a cleat and spar mounted on them, and do just what you said. I can tie a bowline, though not as quickly as I'd like. But I have to admit, to this point, it seems it's used on a sailboat a lot less than what's discussed.
jib sheet - don't know the name of what I use for clew, but the common one, not a bowline
main halyard - halyard knot as discussed in this thread
tie to dock - cleat hitch, bowline if no cleat available
various stopper knots for sheets
- where else should I look to employ a bowline?


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

Gary3675 said:


> There is another way....Thistle sailors are putting a ball on the end of the haylard...where the shackle would be.
> Look at this site.....this explains it.....very simple and a cheap way to attach your main haylard. I have used this and works great.
> 
> attaching ropes to grommets


That's from the Wayfarer site. My last boat WAS a Wayfarer, and had the "ball" installed for the main halyard. Worked beautifully, never had a problem. The advantages are : Quick to attach, quick to release, easy to release after it's been under load, and takes up no space above the sail.

It also had the "ideal knot" arrangement shown for the jib, which also worked very well.


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## imiloa (Mar 17, 2004)

FJ, "where else to use a bowline?" We all have our favorite knots and on my boat I have two reefing lines on the main and when setting up the running rigging each Spring I attach them to the boom using bowlines. I have a cunningham and attach it to the mast using a bowline. I tie my jib sheets to the clew using bowlines. One end of my lazy jacks are attached to a small horn cleat on the boom but the fixed end is tied to the boom using, guess what, a bowline.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

The bowline has got to be the most used knot for too many things to list here. Once you get used to tying it, you will be tempted to use it for virtually everything. It does not bind and does not greatly reduce line strength as much as most other knots. The diameter of the loop can be any size you want. It is considered one of the safest knots as well, especially if doubled.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

As for the safety of the bowline knot, from what I've read, the bowline is excellent under continuous tension but might fail otherwise. The water bowline and Yosemite bowline, and to a lessor extent the double and triple bowline, apparently mediate failure.


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## ShoalFinder (May 18, 2012)

Ditto on being able to tie a bowline in any condition. Wet, cold, miserable, sick, tired, blind, half dead... Many moons ago while working tugs as a young Navy electrician, I learned to tie a bowline as a basic requirement for being a useful space-taker on the boat. If you work tugs, line handling is your job regardless of what else may be your job.

Once during a ridiculously tough job mooring of a large ship- one of those where wind, current, draft, and gross tonnage are all working horribly against success- we were backing down on the main line which was run up through the ship's bullnose, effectively using our tug to act as the brakes for the ship as she was being maneuvered to the pier. As the ship began to swing her nose toward the pier, the line parted. This is *b.a.d.* We ran to the line which looked like a grenade went off inside it. Luckily it parted with a good amount of bight on our deck and we were able to tie a bowline in seconds and get the line secured on the king post so that we could get control of the ship before she could swing far enough to slam the pier. You can imagine 108ft of tug backing down with her 12ft screw at full power until the bow was lifting. When the 8in line starts smoking, you got tension.  The bowline held fine.

If a couple of teenage kids can manage it in seconds with gigundous line, so can you. Tying a bowline is *fast* and that is often one of the greatest unsung attributes of the knot.

A few basic knots will take you far, as in 99% of all the situations you'll ever enounter, and the last 1% you can fake:

bowline
square knot
sheet bend
double half hitch
cleat hitch

Don't just memorize how to tie a bowline. Look at it from front and back until you understand WHY it holds. Then all other knots make perfect sense. "Tight" is not what makes a knot work. Mechanical binding of the bend does. Tight knots only make your buddies curse at you.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

The thing about knots is over the centuries there have been hundreds, and hundreds of knots that have been created, many though have one specific job they are good at, and are terrible for anything else. Others, like the bowline have hundreds of uses, some where it is just as good as a specialty knot, others where it may sacrifice a little, but knowing how to tie in in any conditions makes up for that.

A "rigid double splayed loop in the bight knot" may be exacally what I need at the moment, but a double bowline will work just as well. Can't remember how to tie a perfect "pile hitch" well a bowline will secure a line to a piling just fine. Need to tie a sheet to a ring, or a halyard to the head of a sail, bowlines will work there too, though perhaps not as well.

Once you can tie the basic knots under all conditions it can be fun, and worth doing to learn a few more, but until you can tie a bowline hanging from the rig, right or left handed, loop to you and away from you, you don't know how to tie it well enough. Basically an entire oat can be rigged with nothing but bowlines, it isn't proper, but it will do the job. 

Though if you look at my boat, everything is spliced. I don't have a single knot permanently attached, or even commonly attached. Everything is ether spliced, or I use shackles. But I also use soft shackles (a modified brummel eye splice with a diamond knot) made from dyneema on everything (halyards, sheets, topping lift, ect).


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## Mjfossler (Jun 2, 2012)

I replaced my main sheet this year, and the old one had a splice in it where it attaches to the traveler. Being too cheap to buy fids, I used a bowline. I was a bit worried that it would part under strain, but so far, so good.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Best fids I own are $2 knitting needles from JoAnn's fabric. 

Second best is a set I made from copper tubing.


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