# INexpensive way to get Captain's license



## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Are there books or something to study to pass the neede test? I'd like to get my captain's license without dropping $400 for the course and don't mind doing the work to learn the material.

(Didn't see a similar thread when I did a search.)


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## SeanConnett (Apr 20, 2007)

I used "Get Your Captain's License: The Complete Study Guide, Second Edition" by Charlie Wing.
I sat for the 100 ton Masters Near Coastal with a Sailing Endorsement and passed with flying colors. The book also came with a CD that had practice tests on it.
Hope this helps.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Have Sway take the test for you. On the written portion - the responses will be so long and meandering and have such arcane language there's no way they'll read it.

Hey - have you tried out the Gale Sail yet, Bene? I saw your post about the mast climb - sweet!

Also, we did the heave-to/COB practice this weekend with the whole family aboard. Man, it's amazing how stable things get when you heave-to.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

smackdaddy said:


> Have Sway take the test for you. On the written portion - the responses will be so long and meandering and have such arcane language there's no way they'll read it.
> 
> Hey - have you tried out the Gale Sail yet, Bene? I saw your post about the mast climb - sweet!
> 
> Also, we did the heave-to/COB practice this weekend with the whole family aboard. Man, it's amazing how stable things get when you heave-to.


Yes, the mast climb was sweet. Haven't tried the Gale Sail yet, not even in light conditions, which I should try first.

We should have tried the heave-to in the SCA we did. We had 2 people heav-ing. Next time I'll use that as a reminder to heave-to.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

SeanConnett said:


> I used "Get Your Captain's License: The Complete Study Guide, Second Edition" by Charlie Wing.
> I sat for the 100 ton Masters Near Coastal with a Sailing Endorsement and passed with flying colors. The book also came with a CD that had practice tests on it.
> Hope this helps.


Thanks SC, that's a big help.

Regards


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

Bene, I highly recommend you go to class, I think you miss out of a lot wisdom and experience of others if you do a self study!

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/51983-online-oupv-classes.html


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi all,

Here is my two cents. Now I want to say I am an instructor at an approved school so take my comments with a grain of salt.

In my opinion, if you have a very good understanding of coastal navigation and the 72 Colregs, then these study guides are very useful. In my opinion 50% of the learning on how to take the test is understanding the language of the test questions--which are really designed to trip you up. If someone has taken the ASA 105 Coastal Navigation course and passed it with greater than 90% then the piloting and navigation portions of the test should be a relative "breeze"--pun intended. However, and this is a "BIG" however, if you are not extremely proficient in Coastal Navigation, (especially current/set/drift/course to steer, & three position fix and the cocked-hat triangle) and/or the accuracy of your plots are greater than 0.2 NM, then I would suggest taking a brick-and-mortar course. Additionally, if you are not extremely versed in the Colregs---take a course. One must get a 90% on the Rules of the Road exam--and it is not easy. Additionally, and a lot of people don't appreciate this point, there is a huge amount of responsibility once you get the license. Just to get an idea as to how complicated things can get legally when you have a "ticket", I recommend reading "Farewells Rules of the Nautical Road", by Craig H. Allen.

I encourage people to read this book because often people want to get the title of "Captain" without really understanding the legal responsibility and ramifications of the title. That being said, I have been a Licensed Master with a Sailing and Commercial Assistance Towing endorsement for almost 5 years and it has been the most rewarding professional experience of my life (albeit I only do it part-time because I have a "career" job)

Again--I am not trying to bias a persons view one way or another; I just feel it is important to understand what one is getting into when they get their ticket. I wrote an article a couple of years ago about a portion of the Colregs:

CoastalBoating.net, Risk of collision for the recreational boater, Captain Andrew Seligman, Colregs, collisions at sea, international regulations,

Good Luck!!!


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## SeanConnett (Apr 20, 2007)

Yamsailor said:


> However, and this is a "BIG" however, if you are not extremely proficient in Coastal Navigation, (especially current/set/drift/course to steer) and/or the accuracy of your plots are greater than 0.2 NM, then I would suggest taking a brick-and-mortar course. Additionally, if you are not extremely versed in the Colregs---take a course.


Yansailor is right on the money on this point. You really have to be honest with yourself about your plotting skills before sitting for the exam. I was pretty confident with my ability to plot, but that did not stop me from buying the practice charts available at any well stocked chart store. I think I went to "Blue Water Books and Charts" in Ft Lauderdale. God I love that store!


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Some more information. My motivation is to be able to take people for charter, specifically sunset cruises, to help defray the costs of owning a large boat. I'd need to do the budgeting for insurance and other costs to see if the 12 summer weekends would be worth it. (I'd have to get my liferaft inspected, I'd think.) Making some money would be the ideal.

Knowing more about the rules sounds like a good thing. Better to prevent an accident than to remain more ignorant, mulling over the responsibilities and who gets to point the finger at whom. So that part doesn't bother me that much, unless the setup defies all logic and common sense. And I haven't heard that it's THAT bad. (Is it?)

I've good a bunch of navigation training from flying (private pilot, instrument rated) so accounting for current at different places and times along the route has got to be like accounting for wind drift at different places and times along the route.

I'd love to have the wisdom that comes from an instructor-led course. Are there other ways of gaining this wisdom?

By the way, I bought the book suggested. It was available online for an really good price (third edition, used, CD case still sealed).

Thanks for all the help. Much appreciated!


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

[I'd love to have the wisdom that comes from an instructor-led course. Are there other ways of gaining this wisdom?]

In my opinion, the best way to get the wisdom from an instructor-led course is by taking an instructor-led course. Remember--this is a professional license.

Would you want you commercial pilot to only have practice on a flight simulator or your heart surgeon to practice only on deceased people?



In short--do what you think is best for yourself--I am sure it will be the right decision as long as you are honest with yourself about your abilities.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Yamsailor said:


> [I'd love to have the wisdom that comes from an instructor-led course. Are there other ways of gaining this wisdom?]
> 
> In my opinion, the best way to get the wisdom from an instructor-led course is by taking an instructor-led course. Remember--this is a professional license.
> 
> ...


You make a good point. I've been to courses where they were simply teaching to the test. It sounds like there's more to it. Do you have any recommendation for a course on Long Island or in NY city?

I'm thinking that all this takes time and that I should aim for next summer. Or do you think it's possible to complete before the saeson is over?


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

I would do the course in the fall. 

As for schools, there are plenty around and you can search on the internet.

If you private e-mail me, I can mention a few in your area.


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## Bermudahigh (Nov 17, 2007)

*Insurance cost*

can make things interesting in daysailing your boat.
I'd check with your company and ask about the cost of coverage for an occassional daysail for charter. could be eyeopening
best,
joe


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## xsboats (Oct 2, 2007)

There were students in my class when I did my exams with a sea school that had their tuition and other expenses [there are many] covered by Worksource. It is an agency that helps those changing careers to pay for the cost of education . I wish I had known about them,would have saved me some money.


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

Bermudahigh said:


> can make things interesting in daysailing your boat.
> I'd check with your company and ask about the cost of coverage for an occassional daysail for charter. could be eyeopening
> best,
> joe


Actually, if you are not going to use the license professionally, in most cases having the license actually lowers your recreational boat insurance premiums. On the other hand, if you use the license professionally on your own boat, the insurance premiums do increase. Yes, you can use your boat professionally with out getting the business rate insurance but if you get in an accident--they will not cover you. If you are going to do Captained charters, I think you need insurance above and beyond your recreational policy. Of course that could be off set by the hobby-expense deductions for boat and the operation and expenses--I think.

Sailing instructors usually have 3rd party liability insurance, so they can use their own boat for teaching and have their liability covered but their hull insurance is not covered. I think ASA has a program where their sailing instructors can get special additional hull and liability insurance rates added to their existing recreational insurance policy; of course you would need to be a sailing instructor.

In my opinion, it is always better to get the license--it gives you options.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Yamsailor said:


> Of course that could be off set by the hobby-expense deductions for boat and the operation and expenses--I think.


I was actually going to post the same thing before reading your post. If the OP is going to be charging for outings then he is going to get a TON of help offsetting his boating costs by way of tax deductions. Even the actual cost of any licensing course would be deductible.

Any money spent on safety equipment, boat maintenance costs, slip fees, etc. - Once you report the income from charters, all of that is now considered expenses toward making that income and, as such, are tax deductions.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Thanks, I didn't even think of the tax deduction thing. That will really make a difference.

Regards


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## captbillc (Jul 31, 2008)

i don't believe anyone mentioned the jones act ! if your boat is not built in the USA you cannot take passengers for hire unless you stop at a foreign port & then come back to the USA. you can get in big trouble with the USCG if you don't follow the rules. your documentation also has to be changed to commercial.


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## SeanConnett (Apr 20, 2007)

captbillc said:


> i don't believe anyone mentioned the jones act ! if your boat is not built in the USA you cannot take passengers for hire unless you stop at a foreign port & then come back to the USA. you can get in big trouble with the USCG if you don't follow the rules. your documentation also has to be changed to commercial.


I'm pretty sure that a person can get a waiver from the Coast Guard which would allow a foreign built boat to be chartered in the U.S.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

Bene505 said:


> I've good a bunch of navigation training from flying (private pilot, instrument rated) so accounting for current at different places and times along the route has got to be like accounting for wind drift at different places and times along the route.


A lot of cross-over principles and between aviation and sailing. I found the navigation portion of my private pilot exams were a piece of cake using skills honed on the water. Works both ways.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

" Once you report the income from charters, all of that is now considered expenses toward making that income and, as such, are tax deductions."
YES AND NO, NO, NO. 

While some expenses are allowed as tax deductions in the course of job seeking, changing, or professional advancement, the IRS also has rules to determine whether you have a business or a hobby. Last time I checked, if your new "business" didn't make a profit in any 3 years out of 5, it would be rules a HOBBY and all deductions disallowed.

So if your business doesn't work--you may get clobbered with more than simple losses. Strongly suggest that anyone considering the idea of "I can turn my hobby into a business" check this out directly with the IRS, the regulations and tests are posted on their web site but the laws do change from year to year.

SOmetimes you have the option of simply not taking valid expenses, and by throwing those out, turning your "loss" into a "profit" for a given year, which then allows you to stay out of the "hobby" category.


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

The portion of my charter business that does not cover expenses is my hobby, so says my CPA.


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> " Once you report the income from charters, all of that is now considered expenses toward making that income and, as such, are tax deductions."
> YES AND NO, NO, NO.
> 
> While some expenses are allowed as tax deductions in the course of job seeking, changing, or professional advancement, the IRS also has rules to determine whether you have a business or a hobby. Last time I checked, if your new "business" didn't make a profit in any 3 years out of 5, it would be rules a HOBBY and all deductions disallowed.
> ...


Yeah I looked into this one. You can never claim a loss with a hobby business, you can only claim the amount up your revenue earned. If one claims a loss then one better show a profit within 5 years.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Oracle has their name all over that big cat.
I wonder how they work out the taxes on that monster.
I'm pretty sure Larry doesn't pay for it out of his pocket.

Maybe you just have to paint the name of my company on your transom and take me out a couple times a week and it is all tax deductible.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"Maybe you just have to paint the name of my company on your transom and take me out a couple times a week and it is all tax deductible."
Pretty close. And that's probably just what Oracle does. ANYTHING that gets your name in the press, and is used exclusively for business/advertising purposes, is a 100% deductible marketing expense. Yes, it really is that simple.
The problem only comes in when you commingle personal and business (advertising/marketing) use. And the IRS-approved solution to that is another equally old and established one. You form a charter company, hire a manager for it, and put your boat up for charter. When you want to use it, you charter it just like anyone else, at full rate.
If the company makes a profit it makes a profit and your earnings repay what you laid out for your chartering your own boat. If the charter business is a loss--hey, as long as it is done at arm's length, that's just a losing business and the IRS has no problem with that either.
The same thing is done with privately owned charter aircraft, for the same reason. Treat yourself like any other customer, put in a separate business manager--and it is legit.
Or, hire a full time driver to keep the boat out on the water "showing the flag" the same way that Goodyear flies the blimp. Just make sure you pay full market rent when you want to use it for your birthday party.


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