# Should I buy a Force 5?



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

SailNet Pals:

I just joined your community, and it looks like a great resource. 

Here is my current situation for which I would love some advice:

I currently own a 1982 Sailnetics FJ. This boat is a nice boat, but it is not very convenient. Amazingly enough, it requires two to step the mast. I can get the mast into the position, but cannot attach the shrouds and forestay by myself. It is a long story, but suffice it to say, I can't do it myself. Also, the boat is not comfortable for the passenger because of the seat design and line placements. My wife is not comfortable in the boat, and is not that crazy about being in a tippy boat.

So, I'm thinking of selling it and getting something a bit smaller that I can handle myself easily, but could occasionally take a passenger. There is a Force 5 for sale here locally that might be nice. I have read some reviews, and it is hard to tell if this boat is easy to rig and sail. I don't plan to race it. I might occasionally want to take a passenger such as a child, or possibly another adult who doesn't mind getting wet. Is this boat a good choice?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*yes*

i just got one for my kids to learn how to sail with and they cant wait
they have it in the pool with the mast on learning how to right it so when they do flip it they can recover it themselves.
the mast is three pieces and there is no standing rigging very simple.
most of them come with a trailer but for $25 mine did not so if you do , have fun...


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## RickQuann (May 27, 2005)

My son has one and it's a great little boat (the price was right) It's easy to rig and the cockpit is large enough for two people. He thoroughly enjoys sailing it


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

The Force 5 was introduced by AMF/Alcort in response to the Laser. Very similar to the laser and very fun. Certainly a good boat to have.

I liked the mid-boom sheeting on the Force 5, which seems better to me than the arrangement on the Laser.

I think the Force 5 is just a bit slower than the Laser, but still plenty fast.

You would have a much harder time trying to find any one-design racing on a Force 5.

But overall, Sure a great boat!

David


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

OK, it sounds like this is a good boat. Is it fairly easy to slip the sail over such a long mast? Also, there will be times when I want to leave the boat at a dock or mooring for a few days. Since the boat has no main halyard set up, what do you do with the sail? Can it be furled around the main and tied? Or do I have to take it down each time?


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

The sail slips on the mast easily on land (meaning you, not necessarily the boat)

It would be pretty tough/impossible to do that if you were standing on the boat while it was floating at a mooring! 

So, yes, if you are planning on keeping the boat on a mooring, you'd have to take the mast, boom, and sail off first.

Really, though, that size of boat is best kept ashore.

Don't be shy if you have more questions...

David


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Interesting. OK, I am a 48 year old 170 pound guy. Could I get a kid, or another adult in this boat on occasion if I want to? From the pictures of the hull it looks like there is room in front of the thwart seat for another person. I just wonder if it would be comfortable in that spot?


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Good question.. Sorry I was too lazy to bring it up myself..

At 175 lbs, you are the perfect weight for the boat solo. I have had Lasers out in lots of wind, with a crew member that size, and myself at around 150. No problem as long as you are able to move fast during tacking, etc.

I used to sail Lasers with my Dad, who weighed about 160, and myself at 80 - 100 lbs. No problem, as long as you position yourself carefully/quickly.

So, in summary, no, two people on a Laser/Force 5 isn't a problem, as long as everyone likes each other and can move quickly.

If you're looking for a boat to take more than one other person, or someone who is badly out of shape, then you are looking at the wrong boat.

You will learn amazingly fast on the Force 5, as long as you don't mind getting wet!

David


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## gc1111 (May 13, 2004)

I have heard the Force 5 described as "A Laser for grownups".

I keep my boat at the yard that is now the manufacturer for the Force 5. See WEEKS YACHT YARD.COM. I can testify that they do good and conscientious work.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

This is very useful advice. I am at cross purposes since the main problem with my current boat is I can't easily single hand it for a variety of reasons. Now, I could get a bigger boat that I can handle myself, such as a Lido 14, or a Catalina 16.5, but part of my problem is finding somebody in my family who wants to sail. So the thought of having a smaller boat that I can handle myself on a moments notice is the idea, but with the possibility of bringing another sailor along occasionally. So, this boat could be the ticket. I haven't seen the one locally here for sale, and won't be able to see it until tomorrow, so this could all be moot if the boat is too much of a project. I don't mind replacing rigging and blocks etc. myself, but if the hull has problems, or the trailer is a mess, then that could be the deal breaker.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

I agree with your thinking..

I have sailed Lido 14s.. Nice boats! But, certainly you could singlehand it. The Force 5 would meet your needs a bit better, I think, if you are primarily going to singlehand it, the Force 5 (or a Laser, for that manner, as they are essentially equivalents, except for the reasons noted above) Will be lots more fun.

The boat is probably not a good buy if it has any major problems, as you said. Remember that you are paying "new" prices for anything you have to replace!

David


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well, if the basics of the boat are good, I don't mind replacing lines and blocks as needed. But if the hull has problems, I don't know how to do fiberglass work at all.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Yep... I'll bet your lines and blocks are fine.

On a Laser, a typical hull problem was leaking at the daggerboard trunk. Don't know about the Force 5...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

What I read about the Force 5 is that the older ones leak at the autobailer spot. There is a double hull there, and for some reason they were not sealed that well in the hull with epoxy. The Force 5 website has a whole article on how to fix it yourself which doesn't look that bad. We'll see how this boat looks. Part of my problem isn't just the boat. I tend to trailer fairly far at times, and I want a decent trailer. I am willing to do some work to the trailer, such as rewire it and repack the bearings, but if the trailer is otherwise a mess, that can be a problem. New trailers are darn expensive.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

I've had three Lasers, and cartopped two of them. A pain, but you can do it.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Yeah, but I really want to avoid that. I plan to single hand it, and lifting a 145 pound boat onto the top of my Honda just won't work for me!  

So, a trailer is a must. Doesn't have to be pretty, but solid.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I owned and raced a Force Five for many years. I won't repeat much of what others have commented upon as it is mostly accurate. I thought the boat was great but want to mention a couple of additional points. First, the boat is definetely slower than a Laser notwithstanding the larger sail plan of the Force Five. Second, the larger sail plan made the Force Five a bit to handle for a lightweight like myself in a breeze (I'm about 155 lbs). Of course, in a breeze, someone my weight also struggles with a Laser. Third, and related to the second point, putting the mast up in a breeze by yourself can be somewhat of a struggle. 

Mike
s/v Liberty
Tartan 34C


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Very useful information. How would you say this boat compares to say, a Zuma or a Hobie Holder 12? Or a Pico? The only thing I don't like about the boats that use a sleeve sail is that it is sure nice to raise a mast, and then raise the sail with a halyard. Also makes it possible to drop the sail while still in the water, such as at a dock or mooring.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Yep.. The sleeve type sail is a pain... Simple and efficient, but not a s easy to raise/lower.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

dndrich said:


> Yeah, but I really want to avoid that. I plan to single hand it, and lifting a 145 pound boat onto the top of my Honda just won't work for me!
> 
> So, a trailer is a must. Doesn't have to be pretty, but solid.


If you want a single handed fast boat, with halyards and trailerable that will keep up with the Lasers - buy an IMPULSE!! 

Oops.. I forgot that you probably can't get them in the US of A. Never mind...


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## kai34 (Jul 16, 2008)

last year i had a laser pico which i loved that sounds like would fit your needs perfectly. it is a simple boat that is easily singlehanded with just the main or the main and jib. its slow and the jib doesnt help much, but the second person will feel useful, while having fun. it also has a plastic hull that is indistructable. good luck.
-kai


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The Laser Pico or Vanguard Zuma would truly meet my needs. Trouble is, I never see one of these for sale used in my area. So I would have to buy a new one. The Pico would be about $4000 with a trailer, and the Zuma would be closer to $5000 with a trailer. Now, I would have a hard time getting that one past the wife for my toy! But those boats would truly fit the bill for me I think. The Force 5 is available, and I would consider it because if it would work, it is much less money since it is used.


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## kai34 (Jul 16, 2008)

have you checked craigslist? pico's are rare but zumas are fairly common. they are also not very expensive for a very nice one. ive seen some barely used zumas go for $1000.
-kai


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I live in Sebastopol, near San Francisco. I check craigslist every day. I have never seen a zuma for sale here once! Bummer.


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## kai34 (Jul 16, 2008)

Well if you just moved to MA you would beable to find one. think about it. haha.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Force 5*

OK, I looked at the boat today at the only local sailboat shop here in Sonoma County. The owners are very nice. The boat has been sitting there for years, and shows it. They want $1500 for it with a beat up trailer. The boat will need some work, but not a ton. I will have to take the wood work off and clean and oil. I will have to buff and polish the hull and deck as it is heavily oxidized. The running rigging is in good shape with nice Harken hardware. I will have to take the lines off and soak in Woolite. The tanks were full of water. I suspect the auto bailer, which is apparently a problem in these boats. That should be a reasonably easy fix. He has to find the sail and blades. I suspect they will look fairly old, but who knows.

This seems like a very steep price for this boat. If I remain interested, I would offer maybe $1000. Even that might be high.

There is a local sail maker that could possibly convert the sail into a zipper style, and then I could attach a fairlead to the top of the mast, and raise the sail with a halyard rather than the sock style.

I dunno. Looks like a project. But in this price range I don't think there are too many gems.


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## kai34 (Jul 16, 2008)

i say dont rush it. the price sounds a little to much. you'll find the right one.
-kai


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

I think you should be able to find a nice Laser/Force 5 for that price. I'd keep looking, and still make sure that this is the right boat for you...

1979 laser sailboat $1500 obo

David


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Yes. That is my impression. The boat I looked at is overpriced, and needs some work. Thanks for the link. I wasn't looking at a laser, but I would consider a laser.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

dndrich said:


> OK, I looked at the boat today at the only local sailboat shop here in Sonoma County. The owners are very nice. The boat has been sitting there for years, and shows it. They want $1500 for it with a beat up trailer. The boat will need some work, but not a ton. I will have to take the wood work off and clean and oil. I will have to buff and polish the hull and deck as it is heavily oxidized. The running rigging is in good shape with nice Harken hardware. I will have to take the lines off and soak in Woolite. The tanks were full of water. I suspect the auto bailer, which is apparently a problem in these boats. That should be a reasonably easy fix. He has to find the sail and blades. I suspect they will look fairly old, but who knows.
> 
> This seems like a very steep price for this boat. If I remain interested, I would offer maybe $1000. Even that might be high.


It does sound a little over-priced, especially if the foils aren't in pristine condition and the lines have had a long life in the sun (you could try Woolite, but I'd reckon you'll find yourself replacing the lines in the long term).



dndrich said:


> There is a local sail maker that could possibly convert the sail into a zipper style, and then I could attach a fairlead to the top of the mast, and raise the sail with a halyard rather than the sock style.


Don't want to dampen things for you, but I'm not convinced it would be that easy to convert a sock-style main into something using halyard and still get the sail to set properly. You'd really need to fit slugs and then you'd need a track.. big $$$, I'm afraid.

Good luck with your project!


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