# My experience with a composting toilet



## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

I'm going through old video footage and getting caught up on publishing:





For those who don't want to bother watching the video, here's the quick highlights:

Used the toilet exclusively for about a month
Used it as my primary with shore facilities as backup for another month
For me, it works well and achieves the goal of being a good system that takes up less space
It _does_ smell a little, but the smell is more like garden soil and I don't find it offensive
It can gross very quickly if I don't keep up on the maintenance
I don't feel like the regular maintenance is any more disgusting than the regular cleaning of a pump head
The liquid bottle is a bigger issue than the solids bucket when it comes to maintenance


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Nice summary Bill. I've been using our composter (Nature's Head) for going on a decade. Two adults, full time, for about six months each year. It remains one of the best upgrades we've done to our boat. Would never want to go back to a wet system.


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## sailforlife (Sep 14, 2016)

coconut not peat moss unless you want bugs...


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

Thank you for sharing the video and Summary Bill!

Mike / Bill, Did either of you install the recommended electric fan with your head? If so, do you leave it running full time or just circulate it periodically?

Thanks!
Dave


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

scubadoo said:


> Mike / Bill, Did either of you install the recommended electric fan with your head? If so, do you leave it running full time or just circulate it periodically?


Yes, my head (Nature's Head) recommends the fan, and I'm quite sure that this is a key part of how it works. These heads are more accurately called desiccating or drying heads. They do compost, but the main action involves diluting and drying the feces material. This is where air flow really helps.

This brings up a key difference between the main commercial composting head options out there. Both Nature's and Air are very similar. C-head (which I believe Bill has, but I'm not 100% sure) uses a slightly different approach. The first two have holding tanks are nearly the same, they both recommend venting, and have about the same cycle period on the main tank of; about a month for two people, full time.

C-head's tanks are about 1/2 the size, do not require external venting (although certainly can use it), and have a cycle period of about 2-weeks. They're smaller tank sizes simple require more frequent dumping. The main BIG advantage of C-head is that is uses standard bins for its collection tanks. Nature's and Air use proprietary tanks. So with C-head you can use normal gallon jugs for urine and a standard bucket for the main tank.

I chose Nature's Head because it fit a little better in my existing head space, but also because it has the largest holding bins. I prefer the longer periods between dumping, but there's nothing wrong with going with more frequent dumps.


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

Thank you for the info Mike! Sounds like venting is the key...and possibly the toughest part to install unless you have an extra hole already. As you know, I've been looking at these for years. We sold our old Pearson and bought a slightly newer Tartan about a year ago. Would love to gain back the space that the holding tank occupies, specially since its right below the V-birth. The standard head and tank are working pretty good as is, but could use a new set of hoses and ventilation...figure it may be time for a change. Do you use the coconut husks or the standard peat moss? Also, can you give me an idea how much you go through living full time for half the year?


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Most people just use the existing deck pump out hatch to run the vent to. That's what I've done. I just installed a simple mushroom vent where the pump out used to be. Easy, peasy.


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

Great idea! Mine is up near the anchor locker...a little exposed, but maybe I could seal it while under way. Might even be able to fabricate (mickey mouse) a threaded base for a solar fan that I could easily swap out for the cap. Hmmm...
Thanks!


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

scubadoo said:


> Great idea! Mine is up near the anchor locker...a little exposed, but maybe I could seal it while under way. Might even be able to fabricate (mickey mouse) a threaded base for a solar fan that I could easily swap out for the cap. Hmmm...
> Thanks!


I use a sealable mushroom vent. I've learned, through bitter experience , to close the vent whenever we head into lumpy seas. It's not hard to do. Just gotta remember .


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## Rush2112 (Jul 12, 2020)

Nice balanced video review thanks. 
I'm seriously considering one of these when I get my boat.
If I have to have a holding tank on my boat I'd rather it be grey water just from showers and sinks than to know that other stuff is floating around onboard.

Re: the bomb site issue- I read somewhere that somebody used a compostable version of basically big coffee filters and just throw one in the toilet before you go. Also makes the experience nicer for guests. Apparently the paper just breaks down with the rest of it.

By the way if you're a liveaboard, can't you just direct the pee tank to a through hull somewhere, like wherever your original sea toilet used to go? There must be some way to rig that up.


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## flyingriki (Sep 27, 2012)

YUK.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Rush2112 said:


> By the way if you're a liveaboard, can't you just direct the pee tank to a through hull somewhere, like wherever your original sea toilet used to go? There must be some way to rig that up


Kinda like pissing in your own nest isn't it ?


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Rush2112 said:


> Re: the bomb site issue- I read somewhere that somebody used a compostable version of basically big coffee filters and just throw one in the toilet before you go. Also makes the experience nicer for guests. Apparently the paper just breaks down with the rest of it.


I believe Air Head actually recommends the use of coffee filters. Nature's Head and C-head does not. I can tell you in my near decade use of Nature's Head, the "bomb" situation has happened to me perhaps a 1/2 dozen times. In other words, it doesn't seem to be an issue for me, nor my spouse. Nothing wrong with using coffee filters, but it would add more material to the main tank.



Rush2112 said:


> By the way if you're a liveaboard, can't you just direct the pee tank to a through hull somewhere, like wherever your original sea toilet used to go? There must be some way to rig that up.


You could, and some do. I've not found dumping the urine bucket to be much of a chore, but if you want to avoid this then your idea would work.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

MikeOReilly said:


> You could, and some do. I've not found dumping the urine bucket to be much of a chore, but if you want to avoid this then your idea would work.


But I doubt that it is legal.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Nope. Illegal in any non-discharge zone. Good thing everyone goes three miles off shore before discharging. And certainly no one would ever pee over the side... .


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

MikeOReilly said:


> Nope. Illegal in any non-discharge zone. Good thing everyone goes three miles off shore before discharging. And certainly no one would ever pee over the side... .


I don't have the reference handy but I remember reading that there is a legal difference between peeing over the side (legally OK) and using a device to do so (legal no-no). The latter would be classified as an MSD and it would not be one of the three approved classes of devices (in US waters).

We can discuss to what extent this makes sense...


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Lets not


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## Rush2112 (Jul 12, 2020)

MikeOReilly said:


> Nope. Illegal in any non-discharge zone. Good thing everyone goes three miles off shore before discharging. And certainly no one would ever pee over the side... .


Let alone pee while swimming. I mean imagine the scandal!
LOL


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> I don't have the reference handy but I remember reading that there is a legal difference between peeing over the side (legally OK) and using a device to do so (legal no-no). The latter would be classified as an MSD and it would not be one of the three approved classes of devices (in US waters).
> 
> We can discuss to what extent this makes sense...


I've read this Internet wisdom as well, but never had it verified in law. I suspect the actual law varies, although if you're observed peeing over the side by officials I suppose you could be charged with indecent exposure, so either way, not legal.

The POINT is, it's silly to get all pissy  about peeing over the side (or peeing in a container, and then dumping over the side). Reasonable people do neither while in company that could be bothered or offended. And neither practice makes any measurable impact on the environment.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

MikeOReilly said:


> I've read this Internet wisdom as well, but never had it verified in law.


See post #5 at Yellow water overboard?

If anybody knows about 'human waste management' on a boat it is Peggy Hall


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

It's abundantly clear that pouring a pee bottle overboard is against the rules. Just denial to suggest otherwise. However, I do not think it makes much practical difference. Urine is typically sanitary, at first. I suppose, after it has sat in a warm container and accumulated that may be less the case. Of course, some may have infections or disease and may or may not be aware. 

It's also a misnomer to say it is legal to pee overboard. It's illegal to urinate in public in the US, even if you aren't exposing yourself. It does not violate the NDZ rules, but it's illegal under lewdness laws, if not very specific public urination laws. Whether that would be enforced for a discreet emergency is questionable, but it's clearly illegal.

The best logical argument I've heard for not dumping urine is that it may contain pharmaceuticals.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> It's also a misnomer to say it is legal to pee overboard. It's illegal to urinate in public in the US, even if you aren't exposing yourself.


We are not talking about urinating in public.

There are many things that are illegal even if they are not done in public. It is illegal to bribe an official even if you are very private about it.


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## Rush2112 (Jul 12, 2020)

Minnewaska said:


> The best logical argument I've heard for not dumping urine is that it may contain pharmaceuticals.


That's the best argument that I've read in recent years (aside from Flint Michigan stories and the like) that the entire water processing system in America is woefully inadequate and outdated. And I'm not sure Europe is any better. Although The Netherlands has fantastic on the tap water I have to say, purified naturally through miles of sand. We're literally drinking one anothers' drugs as most of the water processing systems do absolutely nothing to process at this level. Anyway, it's a valid argument you have. But dumping in a toilet isn't actually any better than the ocean.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

If you're dumping your own pee you can know what pharmaceuticals may be passing through since it's from you. Either way, it's irrelevant to the discussion. These drugs will find their way into the environment either through direct discharge from your composting head, or via a more circuitous route through the waste water treatment system.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> We are not talking about urinating in public.


I was reacting to the point that one could legally pee directly over the side of their boat. That's in public. The laws vary among each of the states and the practical likelihood that you'd be caught or prosecuted is a different matter. I'm only pointing out the confusion that is often stated. NDZ laws only apply, if pee is deposited into a container first, therefore it does not prohibit peeing over the side. Other laws do prohibit it.

I don't have a practical objection to urine being poured into the water, but one can't uphold the argument that it is allowed.


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## Aquarian (Nov 8, 2010)

capttb said:


> Kinda like pissing in your own nest isn't it ?


Just like the fishes. Where do you think it goes when you flush on land?


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Aquarian said:


> Where do you think it goes when you flush on land?


Thru the sewage treatment plant ?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

capttb said:


> Thru the sewage treatment plant ?


Yes, but as I understand it, urine is actually responsible for the majority of nitrogen in the treated waste discharged into the water, by these plants. They break down solids and kill off bacteria and disease, but the nitrogen is what contributes to algea blooms and fish kills. Of course, this is on massive scale that is not in the same universe as recreational boating. Nevertheless, I think there is some merit to the idea that flushing urine ashore and pouring it directly amount to a pretty similar end game.

I've even read that some are trying to determine a way to extract that nitrogen for land based fertilization, although, that may require society to rebuild infrastructure to flush them separately, so I wouldn't hold my breath.


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## Aquarian (Nov 8, 2010)

There folks into composting and gardening that do use urine as fertilizer.


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## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

scubadoo said:


> Thank you for sharing the video and Summary Bill!
> 
> Mike / Bill, Did either of you install the recommended electric fan with your head? If so, do you leave it running full time or just circulate it periodically?
> 
> ...


I did install a small PC fan and have it on continously


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

BillMoran said:


> I did install a small PC fan and have it on continously


And just further to this, my fan takes so little power that I can't even see the draw on my Victron amp meter.


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## Keyframe42 (Aug 24, 2020)

So this is crazy I suppose, but anyone every think of using their old salt water pumps to rig a bidet to a composting toilet. Bought one of those installable toushy's for the house, tp use has gone down, and I DO feel fresher


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## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

Keyframe42 said:


> So this is crazy I suppose, but anyone every think of using their old salt water pumps to rig a bidet to a composting toilet. Bought one of those installable toushy's for the house, tp use has gone down, and I DO feel fresher


The challenge is that the solids container on a composting toilet is not supposed to contain liquids, as it has to dry out to be effective. It would be very difficult to mount a bidet over my composting toilet without getting most of the wash water into the solids container. More practical, I suspect, to install a completely independent bidet ... in my case, though, there's not enough room in the head for it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I’ve tried the bidet. Just can’t get used to it and I never felt it worked well, with zero paper. 

We flush single ply TP (no need for “marine TP”). I also can’t get my head around soiled TP in a bag. If one‘s head clogs, from TP, it’s either engineered wrong, or they’re doing it wrong. Most often the latter. If you don’t flush enough chasing clear water to move all solids to the tank, the paper will settle back on the jocker valve and jam it closed. I dare say, if one bags their paper to avoid this, solid waste is probably still in that hose, causing the common and offending permeation odor.

Whether composting or flushing, if a shower is not in the cards that day, unscented baby wipes, at the end, are a better bidet in a bag. I think they now brand them for adults too. Since they are just the final clean up, I find nothing offensive about them being in the trash. They won’t break down in either a holding tank or composter. I’ll also use (a fresh clean one) for very basic hygiene underway, if not showering enough.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Rush2112 said:


> Let alone pee while swimming. I mean imagine the scandal!
> LOL


If you want to sail in the Northern Climates and go for a swim every time you have to pee, I think you have earned the right to do so. It would make me think twice about having another beer.


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## Rush2112 (Jul 12, 2020)

jephotog said:


> If you want to sail in the Northern Climates and go for a swim every time you have to pee, I think you have earned the right to do so. It would make me think twice about having another beer.


Haha really! Looking at a nice cold beer, then out at the ice cold water. Hmm decisions decisions! LOL


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

As mentioned, a bidet and a composting head don't really mesh well together. You'd definitely have to have two separate stations.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Bidet with one of those hot air hand dryers might do the trick.


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