# Is it worth it? A nearly free Albin Vega 27'



## paradoxbox

I recently discovered a very cheap late 60's Albin Vega 27'. 

It has apparently been out of the water for almost 10 years and has extensive gelcoat crazing. From what I could see in the photos the crazing is from sunlight, not structural issues, and that's what I'd expect since the early Albin Vegas were built extremely tough. Mildew has grown into the crazing so it looks pretty weird but I think I could clean it up with acetone. With crazing that extensive it may not be worth it to redo the gelcoat, and instead just paint over it - I have seen some people here do that without issues.. What do you think?

The boat is covered in grime and dirt from all these years of neglect. The interior is really bad, I'd guess maybe about 30 to 60% of the wood is restorable, maybe more, but a lot of stuff will need to be redone to suit my taste. The interior paint is peeling and there's mildew everywhere inside. Clearly the interior needs work. I think it would look a lot better if it were just cleaned thoroughly with some bleach. 

The cushions and etc are all toast but I know how to make cushions and it costs next to nothing to do so that's not a big deal. 

The owner said the inboard engine worked the last time it was in the water, it's not much of a big deal to me, I can fix engines and I'm not even sure if I'd keep the engine if I get this boat, I might just put a 10hp outboard on.

That being said, according to the owner the hull is not rotten/crunchy and doesn't think the deck needs to be recored.

There are sails but they look to be in really bad shape. I think new sails would be a necessity. I don't know if I could make them myself or not, never tried. My machine might not be heavyweight enough to handle several layers of sail canvas.

Normally, I would not really consider a project that big. But this is an early thick hulled Albin Vega and it's up for pretty cheap. The cheapest Vegas I've seen that are still sailable are around 6-7,000$ but at that price they all have issues with mildew in the cabin and would require painting both inside and out just as much as this project boat needs it. The woodwork on those boats is usually heavily worn or damaged as well..

I figure if I do everything myself I can probably get the boat ready for sailing in 1-2 years with about $7,000 of wood/paint/wire/other materials. 


About me: I have no savings and have no patience to save more than a few thousand dollars at a time, saving 20k to buy a boat ain't gonna happen. A project or cheap boat is basically my only option. I pulled the trigger on a Cal 27 about 2 years ago only to find the owner had sold it hours before to someone else. Damn.

What do you guys think? Worth it for an Albin Vega?


----------



## paradoxbox

Here are some pics of the boat.


----------



## mikehoyt

Yikes!

I think an awful lot depends on what boats cost in Tokyo. If you can buy a nice Albin Vega for $6-7K then this one would be pretty steep if FREE.

If that trailer is decent and IF you have a place to work on it once you tow it there there may be something. If you have to drive to work on it each time forget it.

If you are really meticulous with your work and love restoring junk to something decent then maybe. If you are not meticulous you may end up with painted junk that you have wasted $5000 or more on and still is worth ZERO.

You need to determine first if the hull problem is cosmetic or if it has compromised the structure of the hull. Gelcoat protects the hull from water and UV and in this boat that may not be the case. Hire a surveyor and go from there.

Assume the engine is toast and if you can make it work then that is a bonus. A 10HP outboard is $3000 new and even an old one working well is $1000 - and you would need a bracket, etc... that costs $$$

Things to check. Hull integrity, rigging, mast, etc.... You will need all new halyards and lines as the ones left out for 10 years will likely be rotted. Sails you will have to buy from a used sail swap place - determine the measurements and then start looking - I,J, E, P are the numbers to look up on Mauri Pro or US Sailing PHRF site. New sails are more expensive than the boat is worth.

Inform the current owner that you love boats. That you think of the Albin Vega as a classic and would like to see it restored to the condition it deserves. Let the owner know the boat in excellent condition is worth less than 10000 and that average condition is 6-7000. Let him know that you expect to require replacemnt/restore of engine, rig, hull, deck, cushions, etc... and replacement of sails. Let him know that you have researched these costs and thy exceed $7000.

After all of this if the owner does not give you the boat forr free then walk away. The only two initial costs you should pay are for a survey to determine if the hull is even worth saving and transport to put the boat near you so you can work on it.

Look up Glissando a Pearson Triton 28. There is an extensive website on the restoration of that from a wreck into a stunning classic boat. Make no mistake that this Vega is a wreck. There is nothing really redeeming about it except perhaps the trailer - and looking at the condition of the boat I have serious doubts about the trailer.

I am not trying to be negative. It is possible to restore a boat in this condition. It will take YEARS between two and five depending on how much time you devote. The materials are not cheap either so be warned.

Good luck with your project should you take it on. Consider posting progress and pictures on a web site.

and most importantly remember one key thing - YOU WILL NOT SAVE MONEY BUYING THIS BOAT. By spending LABOUR (your own) and working on it over a year or two you are buying a boat over time but still paying at least as much and maybe more.

It can be worth it but you certainly should be aware what you are getting into.

Mike
J27 #150


----------



## paradoxbox

How can you tell that the crazing is not just cosmetic in this case?
I mean, if I removed the crazing and resurfaced with new gelcoat, why is the boat still toast?

I should have mentioned, I live in Tokyo now but the boat is on the US Atlantic coast and I will be moving out in that general direction some time in the next month or two.


----------



## DrB

*Assuming that the hull is still.....*

somewhat structurally sound, my guess is that your looking at a $30-50K to get to get it decent looking again. You're going to speed around $10K alone just to clean, recore, re gelcoat, and repaint the boat.

Bottom line: I'd pass

DrB


----------



## Sabreman

Wow. The boat should be in the Boats of Shame thread.

I guess that it depends if you want something to work on or something to sail. It'll be a really long time before it's presentable. 

That boat is a wreck and the owner should be ashamed. Paul's right. The boat is toast. Strip it and sell the parts? I think that I'd puke if I went below.


----------



## mikehoyt

As I said - only if you feel the Albin is a Classic and you really like restoring antiques.

The Hull probably is toast or near toast. You would need to do an awful lot of stripping off, inspecting and rebuilding and if you are not experienced in that sort of work it is likely beyond your current capabilities or will look awful after completed.

And that is just the first project.

---

Check out Pearson Triton #381 Glissando | Restoring, Maintaining, and Cruising a Plastic Classic on the Coast of Maine for the restoration of the Pearson Triton. I am sure that Tim spent more restoring than the boat is worth. However it looks extreemely nice now and he used it to build a reputation for his current business.

---

One rule of thumb with old boats. The stuff you do see is usually a very good indication of the maintenance levels on the things you do not see - especially when the things you see are neglected.

There are a lot of nearly free boats on Eastern US coast that are in far better condition. Also a lot that are newer such that the gear on them may be salvageable.

Mike


----------



## NCC320

Paradox,

Run, don't walk, away from this boat. It's horrible. If you want to buy an older sailboat, there are hundreds, if not thousands, to choose from in the US. Buy one that you can go sailing on now....not years later. 

As to not having savings, or trying to have savings, why? I don't know how old you are, but old age comes quickly. A day is coming when you won't be able to work. What will you do then? One doesn't need to be rich, but one does need a certain amount of money...otherwise, life is going to become difficult (I guess there is always some form of welfare, but there are restrictions even there). Take the advice of an old man....from every pay check, set aside a little for a rainey day (and don't touch it except in extreme circumstances). Whatever your income is, live within that. And, please, don't waste it on this junk boat or on a similar one.

Good luck.


----------



## paradoxbox

I'm 23, soon 24. The reason I have no savings and don't want to right now is because I wasted my younger years working full time and realized what a waste it is to spend my youngest most active/healthy years slaving away for the profit of someone else. It might be the responsible/adult style, but it's not my style. 

I quit my decently paying full time job 2 years ago and moved to Japan and have been adventuring here ever since. I love it here but I want to go sailing and see some more of the world, and more of Japan. Buying a boat is better done in North America where prices are much cheaper. I'll sail whatever I buy back to Japan once it's ready. I'm willing to stick in one place for a few months if I need to save up a few grand but I'm not going to go back to the old grind, it's not for me.

As to why everyone keeps saying run away from this boat: Are there any specific reasons why? Details please. Not trying to be argumentative, it's just that I recall about 10 years ago I stumbled on an old salvaged power boat in similar shape, though the gelcoat crazing was not as widespread. Anyway I managed to restore that by myself, including a big hole in the fiberglass, and the boat as far as I know is still in use today. 

What's so bad about this boat that I'm missing and everyone else is seeing? Dirt and bad paint make a boat look a lot worse than it is, I'm not seeing what everyone else is.

Keep in mind that this boat, while not quite free, is nearly so, and a Vega in poor to barely fair condition sells for 6-7000. A Vega in decent condition goes for over 10,000. 

I had worked out the restoration costs like this. Everything will be DIY, there is no point in paying people to fix a boat this rough:

Sanding materials, solvents, clear or white gelcoat, bottom and topside paint, interior paint, antiskid paint: Approx $1,000 to $1,500 (This is realistic for materials, I priced it out online and allowed for 2gal of extra paint/waste)

New woodwork: Approx $1,000 materials cost. Decent but cheap marine plywood is good enough for me. White formica overlays. I think I will enroll in a college woodworking course to gain free access to the shop facilities, either that or get a job at a furniture manufacturer until the woodwork is done. A lot of the wood already in the boat is savable but needs new formica.

New through hulls, sink, stove, misc: $1,000 to $1,500. If I can find used stuff I'll take it. 

New electrical: Not sure. Anywhere from $500 to $1500. Replacing the wiring can't be that expensive even with high metal prices these days, but you never know. $1500 max. I have some electrician friends who can help me out with this for a few cases of beer.

Sails: Don't know. I will need to buy used or make my own, new sails cost too much. I see heavyweight dacron on sale online for under 25$ a yard for 54" rolls. I used to work in the high end printing industry where we use material like that for heavyweight banners so I can probably get some dacron from my old suppliers for way cheaper than retail price. I also have a heavy duty sewing machine already and know how to use it, but I can handsew if my machine can't handle the material. The boat comes with the old sails so I can copy everything.

Engine: $500. If I can't rebuild the current engine cheaply I will look for a used similar engine for cheap, hey it happens. I can do all the engine work myself, rebuilding is not a problem. If I can't find a cheap inboard I'll haul it out and put on a small outboard. The boat actually has a bracket already but I don't like it so I'll get a friend to fabricate one if necessary. Beer payment for that.

Storage space: Surprisingly the most difficult hurdle. I'd love to bring it down to Florida where my family has some property but I can't work in the US (I'm Canadian) so it's no go. Similarly working in -20c weather in the Toronto winter is impossible. I'm still looking around for tall heated garage space that's not too expensive. 

Anything I'm missing?


----------



## Mimsy

paradoxbox said:


> As to why everyone keeps saying run away from this boat: Are there any specific reasons why? Details please. Not trying to be argumentative, it's just that I recall about 10 years ago I stumbled on an old salvaged power boat in similar shape, though the gelcoat crazing was not as widespread. Anyway I managed to restore that by myself, including a big hole in the fiberglass, and the boat as far as I know is still in use today.
> 
> What's so bad about this boat that I'm missing and everyone else is seeing? Dirt and bad paint make a boat look a lot worse than it is, I'm not seeing what everyone else is.


I think you have gotten some very specific reasons why from some very experienced sailors. The crazing has probably allowed water to penetrate into the hull structure. This means that the hull is probably not structurally sound.

Correct me if I misread you, but are you seriously considering a trans Pacific crossing in this? Seriously?

If you do not have the patience of fortitude to work long enough to save money for a boat, how will you afford to buy the materials for the needed repairs? Will you have the patience to do the work properly, or will it be a slap dash job? If you are planning on doing any blue water sailing, how will you be able to save the money for the bare minimum of safety gear?


----------



## JomsViking

1. You've been giving sound advice on the state of the hull - TOAST!
2. You cannot "re-gelcoat", you need to paint. But that won't add anything structural. This makes it hard to believe that You've refurbished another hull successfully (sorry for being direct)
3. I cannot imagine what happened to that Vega. Have seen an example that has been abandoned for 7-8 years that looked fine on the outside after some heavy cleaning and polishing.
4. You can find better hulls for free or only a few $, so keep looking
5. A Vega is a great boat - find another or something like it.

Contrary to popular belief, I know from experience that it is possible to refurbish an old boat, and get a fine and cheap boat for a small amount - However it requires a lot of hard work and stamina, as well as looking around for the right deals - this is not the hull to start with, though.


----------



## merc2dogs

paradoxbox said:


> As to why everyone keeps saying run away from this boat: Are there any specific reasons why?
> What's so bad about this boat that I'm missing and everyone else is seeing? Dirt and bad paint make a boat look a lot worse than it is, I'm not seeing what everyone else is.


 Main reason is that most people see a boat as an investment. As such, requiring a lot of work really ruins the investment value by reducing the profit margin. 
Gell coat is used by manufacturers mostly for appearance and ease of building, many boats are sailing with the gell coat removed that have barrier coat and bottom paint as the only covering. Any of the quality paints will work above waterline. So don't let the crazed gell coat scare you.

Another issue is how much of the work you will do yourself. If you are paying to have the work done, it cn easily be four times more than the cost of materials. (which will also be substantially mrked up)

If you are willing to put the work into it, and willing to wait to sail it next year, it's a good project. If you want to sail NOW look elsewhere.

Best move in my opinion would be to get the exterior in overall seaworthy shape and ready to sail condition, then move on to the interior while it's in the water where it can be done at a more relaxed pace.

I'm one who works on boats (cars,bikes,trucks too) simply because I enjoy it, so I don't look at them as investments. That boat, would be sitting in my yard right now if I could get it at a low cost.

Ken.


----------



## paradoxbox

How are you guys able to identify that the crazing depth is so significant that it is affecting the structural integrity of the hull?

Is it not just possible to sand down until the crazing is gone? You could then spray on a new coat of gelcoat, sand it smooth then paint. 

I'd like to THINK that better hulls could be found for free or cheap, but in the case of Albin Vega's I have never seen one and I have been watching for the last 4 years. The next cheapest Vega I have seen was over 5,000$, located in Sweden, and it still was not in good condition (Though it was better than this one, it was going to need a restoration too)

P.S. I don't count my own labor as costing money. I'm not planning on paying anyone to do any work on it, it defeats the purpose. And I definitely don't think of a sailboat as an investment. Vehicles of any kind almost never appreciate in value. I consider it something to throw money at in exchange for a higher quality/enjoyment of life.


----------



## welshwind

While I tend to look at it and think 'run away', that is just my initial reaction. I have a question for those who are concerned about the hull. Is it really a concern that there are structural cracks in the fiberglass? That there may be cracks in the fiberglass where there is a balsa core and that has rotted out. If the fiberglass is not cracked, is it possible for the hull to be compromised? I was always under the impression that Gelcoat was really cosmetic ... that a fiberglass hull would be fine without it but it would be a bit disconcerting from the inside as light would penetrate it and it would be unattractive from the outside.

Now, regarding taking this boat across the Pacific on sails that I sewed ... yikes!


----------



## JomsViking

Paradox,

You're right, we cannot be sure that it is structural. BUT I will tell you this: It seems rather extreme, as I've seen a large number of Vega's that has lived a tough life and still have the original gelcoat - And I've never seen anything like that. The deck and superstructure on the Vega is sandwiched, but the hull is not IIRC, so you may be able to do as you propose, but it is close to impossible to add gelcoat and get a nice finish - You will have to paint! The hull is well laid-up, so maýbe - just maybe - you can get away with grinding and fairing (times 100). How's the rigging on the boat, if that is in a similar condition, you're facing even more work and expense.
For the record I've done this on two of my own boats, and helped several others!
If you're looking you can find better hulls for free or less - also in Sweden, but they're typically not advertised.
BTW I know where you can get a fully functional, in sailaway condition, International Folkboat for less than 6k if you care to buy it in DK: Kongelig Dansk Yachtklub

Keep looking AND don't give up - You are on the right track here!


----------



## Cruisingdad

Cardiacpaul is a marine surveyor. I would listen to his advice.

I am more of the opinion that you are better off spending more money up front and getting a good, well cared for boat, then the latter. However, I am not qualified to help you on whether the hull is in good shape or not. I would listen to CP who just said no-thanks.

But hey - if you have lots of time and want to play around on this boat, it is your life. Who knows, maybe she will clean up better than it appears she would. I just wouldn't sail it from the dock further than I could swim back.

- CD


----------



## jameswilson29

1975 Albin Vega in Norfolk, VA for $6,000

1975 Albin Vega Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


----------



## paradoxbox

Thanks for keeping this thread interesting guys.

Yeah, I did notice cardiacpaul is a surveyor so I took his words into consideration. But I do have to wonder if his advice was meant more for a casual shopper than someone who's willing to take on a big project? I mean it's not every day that you see a boat in this roughed up shape so maybe his words were more of a reflex?

For what it's worth this boat has never filled with water. And I really do think that most if not all of that crazing is from after it was put up into storage. I don't think that it was like that the last time it was in the water. 

I am waiting on some more detailed photos of the crazing, but I bet that it is mostly only on the side that has not been shaded by trees, which are probably also the cause of all that dirt and grime. I had a car that looked almost that dirty from less than a month sitting in a driveway underneath a tree that spewed pollen and other crud over everything below it. Had to start parking on the street to keep it clean.

The thing with the $6-10,000 Vega boats is, they almost all have something wrong enough with them that's going to require haul out and restoration costing at least what I figure this project boat would cost me to get into sailable condition. Plus in the above case it's got wheel steering and it's a 1975 version which has a weaker hull than the older Vega's.

Anyway, according to the guy the rigging and mast are all OK. The sails exist but are covered in mold or mildew or something. Usable in a pinch but new sails are going to be needed. Most of the other hardware is apparently OK but if it turns out to be shot I will have to scrounge up some old used stuff. No big deal.


----------



## mikehoyt

Paradox

I think the "Something you are missing" is simply experience that you will eventually get.

There are A LOT of used boats in that size range dotting the coast and many in decent shape being given away at very low prices. The Exoperience is that you are looking on a major project with many chances iof not succeeding in place of purchasing another boat for less overall cost and a much higher chance of sucecss.

The hull? Well if the gelcoat is cracked I wonder if it was actually paint and not gelcoat? If gelcoat then has water penetrated thru the gelcoat into the underlying hull and if so has it frozen and caused further damage? Osmosis is a problem where water penetrates the fibreglass hulls and it is serious - this hull looks like it could be a lot worse than that. You need to have a very knowledgable surveyor look at this to know for sure.

The outboard bracket on the back may be another warning sign. To me it says that 10 years ago the engine was not reliable. less chance now.

I have bought a boat sight unseen but well described and with many issues. It was dirty from sitting one off season and the deck was wet and needed repair in a number of places. The sails were old and there were a few more things. The broker actually told me to sail it for two years and then cut it up with a chainsaw if anything else broke. However I did know most of the issues and it was easily fixed over two seasons. None of it was the hull though - just the deck.

The expensive parts on a boat are the mast and rigging. If that is shot it will cost more than the boat to replace it. 

This boat has been sitting 10 years. The hull itself will take a LONG time to repair and you have stated you don't really have any place to do the work? 

I don't know. The boat is restorable in my opinion but will take a LOT of time and a lot of money. I think your material estimates are low. MArine paint can be expensive - especially for barrier coats and other things you need to seal the hull below the waterline. If you did this job and took the proper time the boat could look quite nice. I would not make your own sails because they may look lnice and sail horribly - but you can easily find used sails at any one of a number of used sail shops that can be acecssed on line for as little as 200 each. (expect to pay more).

North Sea boats are reputed to be very sturdy. However I don't believe the Vega 27 is designed for open water sailing that you have expressed an interest in. You should be looking at something like a Contessa 26 which is also a North Sea boat and have had many single handed ocean crossings.

Other things to think about are where you will store this boat on land and moor it in the water. I would think having any access to a boat on the water in Japan could be very expensive - probably as much as the boat is worth annually.

There is a lot of sound advice on this board. The boat may be restorable but the sound advice is find another one in better condition cheaper. A lot of people donate boats to charities and simply get tired of paying for storage on boats of such low value. Why pay $2000 + per year for storage on a $7000 boat sort of thing - so they basically give them away.

Best advice you have had is KEEP LOOKING. Also don't get stuck on the Vega.

Mike


----------



## Mimsy

WHile I applaud your can-do, diy attitude the thing that gives me pause is your description of yourself. You said you were not patient. Even with the funds to not worry about the cost of materials, restoring a boat in this condition takes an enormous amount of patience. 

What you think will be a simple, 3 hour job often turns into a 2 day job and oh while you are there, you will notice something else that you previously missed that needs attention. This is inevitable.

Then there is the cost. You should add at least 25% to any of your cost estimates for supplies, though 50% will be more like it. I don't know why this happens, but it does. It happened on every item we've done so far and bargain shopping is my superhero power and my husband has access to just about any machined item you could want at wholesale. Still, every job thus far as exceeded our researched budget by at least 25%.

The final issue for me is time. You've said that you want to hurry up and go sailing. Restoration that you think will take 2 years will quickly morph into 3 or 4 years. As I stated earlier, every job you think will take longer than you think. The added expense of parts and supplies will force you to work in order to purcahse them which will cut down on the amount of time spent restoring this boat.

Yes, a $6,000 boat in better condition will still need work and money but at the end of it, you will have a vessel that is NOT an investment ( I don't think any boat is an investment) but a sea worthy vessel that can take you where you want to go SAFELY. 

If you really want to find a project, you can find one in better shape for not much money which will put you ahead of the game. I'm not saying you shouldn't pursuit your goal, just that there are better vessels out there to help you accomplish your goals. Good luck.


----------



## mitiempo

The Vega is a good boat - several have circumnavigated and they have many ocean crossings to their credit (John Neal started his sailing with a Vega from Seattle to South Pacific and back). But I'd definitely give that one a pass - it's too far gone. As to the hull - IF the basic hull isn't compromised you will have to grind, fair, grind, fair many times before you paint (not gelcoat) with good two part marine paint (meaning expensive) if you expect it to last. The rigging will need replacing after all these years unless you just daysail near home. I don't think an outboard would work well on a Vega as in any kind of sea it would be out of the water half the time and still won't charge batteries worth a damn - an inboard is much better. I admire your desires and am currently doing the same myself on my 8th boat, but I started with a sailable boat with few problems and good equipment. I would guess it would cost many, many hours and $10.000 to get this Vega to the condition of the one advertised for $6,000. There are too many affordable or almost free boats available to take on a losing project. If you had an indoor shop, lots of money, a high skill level, lots of money, and a lot of time it could be restored - but why when there are so many better options? Cruise Craigslist for a better bet.
respectfully
Brian


----------



## RIYachtBroker

Paradox,

I have to applaud your chutzpah. You have heard advice from a number of knowledgeable mariners, yet you keep pushing back. Hey if you want that kind of a project that much, go for it. It's your life, your time, your money - what the hey!

My advice - forget that boat - spend your time surfing the web and looking for a better deal. I just did a quick search in the past couple of minutes, and guess what? Free boat.

(I just joined the board and can't post the link I wanted to) Google "sailboat take it away"

Fix up something like this, and then trade it in a year from now. Maybe you'll get $5K toward your next project.

Spend a few weeks - you'll do better without all the inherent risks.

Good luck - would love to hear what you decide.


----------



## mitiempo

Another idea just occurred to me - go to The Plastic Classic Forum • Index page
There is a fellow named Peter that's a regular. He is in Sooke, B.C. where he has a Vega 27 he has brought up to a high standard. Ask him his opinion as he knows these boats very well. Most of the members of plastic classic are rebuilding something in this size range and the previously mentioned Tim Lackey of Glissandro owns the site. Almost all are able to give good advice regarding this boat. If you want to see what you're really in for to do it right, as that's the only way to do it, go to Tim's commercial sight for a look see at how a derelict is really rebuilt step by step.Northern Yacht Restoration | Tim Lackey: One Man, One Boat at a Time
Brian


----------



## JomsViking

I'll probably get a lot of heat for this:
Go engineless! (add a solarpanel for power, keep electronics to a GPS and a VHF).
Make your own sails, but buy a kit for the first set (SailRite or others)

Still, keep your eyes open and look for other possibilities than just that Vega.

Edit: mitiempo's advice seems great.


----------



## sailingfool

paradoxbox said:


> I'm 23, soon 24. The reason I have no savings and don't want to right now is because I wasted my younger years working full time and realized what a waste it is to spend my youngest most active/healthy years slaving away for the profit of someone else. It might be the responsible/adult style, but it's not my style.
> 
> I quit my decently paying full time job 2 years ago and moved to Japan and have been adventuring here ever since. I love it here but I want to go sailing and see some more of the world, and more of Japan. Buying a boat is better done in North America where prices are much cheaper. I'll sail whatever I buy back to Japan once it's ready. I'm willing to stick in one place for a few months if I need to save up a few grand but I'm not going to go back to the old grind, it's not for me.
> 
> As to why everyone keeps saying run away from this boat: Are there any specific reasons why? Details please. Not trying to be argumentative, it's just that I recall about 10 years ago I stumbled on an old salvaged power boat in similar shape, though the gelcoat crazing was not as widespread. Anyway I managed to restore that by myself, including a big hole in the fiberglass, and the boat as far as I know is still in use today.
> 
> What's so bad about this boat that I'm missing and everyone else is seeing? Dirt and bad paint make a boat look a lot worse than it is, I'm not seeing what everyone else is.
> 
> Keep in mind that this boat, while not quite free, is nearly so, and a Vega in poor to barely fair condition sells for 6-7000. A Vega in decent condition goes for over 10,000.
> 
> I had worked out the restoration costs like this. Everything will be DIY, there is no point in paying people to fix a boat this rough:
> 
> Sanding materials, solvents, clear or white gelcoat, bottom and topside paint, interior paint, antiskid paint: Approx $1,000 to $1,500 (This is realistic for materials, I priced it out online and allowed for 2gal of extra paint/waste)
> 
> New woodwork: Approx $1,000 materials cost. Decent but cheap marine plywood is good enough for me. White formica overlays. I think I will enroll in a college woodworking course to gain free access to the shop facilities, either that or get a job at a furniture manufacturer until the woodwork is done. A lot of the wood already in the boat is savable but needs new formica.
> 
> New through hulls, sink, stove, misc: $1,000 to $1,500. If I can find used stuff I'll take it.
> 
> New electrical: Not sure. Anywhere from $500 to $1500. Replacing the wiring can't be that expensive even with high metal prices these days, but you never know. $1500 max. I have some electrician friends who can help me out with this for a few cases of beer.
> 
> Sails: Don't know. I will need to buy used or make my own, new sails cost too much. I see heavyweight dacron on sale online for under 25$ a yard for 54" rolls. I used to work in the high end printing industry where we use material like that for heavyweight banners so I can probably get some dacron from my old suppliers for way cheaper than retail price. I also have a heavy duty sewing machine already and know how to use it, but I can handsew if my machine can't handle the material. The boat comes with the old sails so I can copy everything.
> 
> Engine: $500. If I can't rebuild the current engine cheaply I will look for a used similar engine for cheap, hey it happens. I can do all the engine work myself, rebuilding is not a problem. If I can't find a cheap inboard I'll haul it out and put on a small outboard. The boat actually has a bracket already but I don't like it so I'll get a friend to fabricate one if necessary. Beer payment for that.
> 
> Storage space: Surprisingly the most difficult hurdle. I'd love to bring it down to Florida where my family has some property but I can't work in the US (I'm Canadian) so it's no go. Similarly working in -20c weather in the Toronto winter is impossible. I'm still looking around for tall heated garage space that's not too expensive.
> 
> Anything I'm missing?


Not at all, it seems you got it all under control. I think your post is more an opportunity to share your dreams than listen to people with real experience.

Stop talking about this...go for it...you will deserve the results.


----------



## merc2dogs

paradoxbox said:


> P.S. I don't count my own labor as costing money. I'm not planning on paying anyone to do any work on it, it defeats the purpose. And I definitely don't think of a sailboat as an investment. Vehicles of any kind almost never appreciate in value. I consider it something to throw money at in exchange for a higher quality/enjoyment of life.


 Good for you on that, seen too many people who feel that the time they spend working on THEIR boat has the same dollar value as marina labor rates.

The best way to assign value, is to look at how many hours you would have to spend at work to pay an hours labor at marina rates. For most people it comes out to an extremely unfavorable exchange, often two (or three) hours spent at the job to pay for one hour of marina labor. It's great if it works out the other way.

Ken.


----------



## paradoxbox

Again, thanks for all the replies guys. I'm sure many of you noticing and hating my rebellious, must-go-against-the-grain side in here already, haha. But I really appreciate the info / opinions. I'm not commited to buying this project, nor am I going to give it up. But if I am going to back away it would need to be for a good reason - if the hull is not sound that's a good enough reason.

I hear from people here that crazing could let water into the glass which results in a weak hull. And I'm also hearing here that the crazing on this boat is more severe than they have seen before. However, what I see elsewhere is that this kind of crazing is typical of 1960's fiberglass boats. I also haven't seen anyone mention hull crazing resulting in water damage. So while I believe people in both camps I think it's worth investigating a bit more in depth and not just making a kneejerk reaction based on how dirty and grimy it looks.

Something that keeps coming up in this thread is Glissandro, the old Triton boat that was restored to fantastic standards. I have been following that site for a long long time. I recently found the plastic classics forum too and started searching for gelcoat crazing.

I found a post by one of the members and included in the post was this photograph. Followed by the owner of Glissandro who mentioned that this kind of thing is extremely common (I think he said it was universal actually) on old fiberglass boats and appeared because the gelcoat was laid on too thick at the time of manufacture. 









So while I am hearing from people here that crazing may result in hull damage, I'm hearing from people over there that it's probably minor, and I'm seeing Glissando's owner also say it's a minor issue. His boat had pretty gnarly crazing when he bought it, you can see it on his website.

Thanks again for the link to the plastic classics forum. I hadn't checked it in a while and it reminded me to go back there.

I thought about doing the engineless thing but in my experience especially in the Pacific Northwest you can often get weeks of solid cloud cover or no wind which eventually would kill all my electricity and leave me with no way to navigate (can't even use a sextant if you don't have sun or stars to do it with).

Keep it coming with the posts. I'm sure there are a thousand others out there just like me who will stumble onto this thread with google sometime in the future and will appreciate the info contained.


----------



## paradoxbox

No need to call names or get defensive - I am not looking through things with rose tinted glasses. I just don't make decisions either way without a good reason. It's not like I am insistent on buying this boat! I just don't want to walk away without knowing why I should walk away. Also, I started writing my last post before you posted so I didn't see the info you had written. I do appreciate and understand what you are writing.

Anyway, here is a photo of an area under one of the pads. I understand what deflection is but I don't see it. If there were deflection wouldn't there be a circular spiderweb pattern around the pad areas?









In the second pic you posted, what differentiates regular crazing with crazing that lets in water and affects hull integrity? What am I supposed to be looking for?

The third pic you posted does look like a fiberglass repair would be needed.

Anyway since cardiacpaul has said he won't post anymore in here, anyone else who can elaborate please feel free to do so.


----------



## mikehoyt

Hmmm .. I guess I have to ask this question next.

Why this particular boat?

There are other Vega 27 that a 10 minute search showed at 3200 and 4500 for sale in decent condition. There are over 3400 of these boats manufactured.

This one boat seems to have not one single system in working order. The hull is a problem or at least a major project, the rigging is probably bad, the boat has been neglected, the sails although not on the boat are mouldy - what kind of storage is that? Everything about this boat says the owner does not care about it or is dead or terminally ill for the past ten years.

There are so many others around that I can only conclude that this is an intellectual exercise and not a serious consideration.

There is a Tanzer 22 that sits in our boat yard. I know the previous owner who sold it in 2000 to buy his current boat. It was one of the nicest Tanzer 22 in the area when he had it. Lots of really nice gear, nice outboard, decent sails, road trailer and all the rest. The guy who bought it used it one year and then hauled it - leaving everything in the boat and the sails not even folded.

The boat looked neglected the first year, grimy by the second and now has a tree growing in the cockpit. It takes very little time for a boat on the hard to fall apart if not regularly maintained in some manner. The one you are looking at has been neglected for up to 10 years. The lead in the keel (supposing it is lead) has some value. Anchors are a lot cheaper than the time it would take to remove the inbord engine so it is not even useful for that purpose.

Have fun looking. that can be fun. I don't think you have seen this boat in person and the boat has probably been cleaned prior to these pictures. 

You have been advised by many to look elsewhere as the problems on this boat while they may be fixable are too numerous to count. There are a LOT of boats very cheaply available - many of them Albin Vegas. I think it is pretty clear that the good advice says look at those.

If this was your grandfather's boat and he became sick and could not care for it and you grew up sailing on it then I would understand your desire to fix it. Even if the hull is toast you could possibly rebuild it although I doubt it would be as strong as before. It would be nice to have your grandfather's pride and joy restored for nostalgia.

Of course if it just belongs to someone who didn't care and left it and let it rot then why bother?

Boats rot when left on the hard unattended.

Mike


----------



## zeehag

albin vegas are excellent boats. they ar rblue water boats. gelcoat crazing from sunburn is no tgoing to kill the boat. the interior looks ok under all that dirt and black mold. there are 2 albin vegas near me in san diego on moorings--both men who own them would never buy a different boat--they swear by them rather than swearing at them. you have a project, yes, but a worthy project. leaves the cal you didnt get in the dust. they sail well and are very very well built. have fun with your project and smooth sailing. btw--one of the men who own them near me just finished painting his hull with an epoxy paint and it is absolutely awesome......yopu did not make any mistakes, sir--you done good.....donot give up--is an excellent boat.....


----------



## Cruisingdad

I agree. Your money is better spent finding a different Vega. At the very least, go out and look at some other Vegas tom comapre against. THen, get a West Marine catalog and starting adding up the cost to make that boat sea worthy. I would expect yout time to be free - that is not the issue. I think once you put numbers to the pad, you will understand why the general concensus is that this is not the right boat for you ro anyone.

And remember something else that no one has said: that boat, when on the sea, is your life. She will not fall apart in the protected bay with the 1 foot swells and Sea Tow running around. She will fall apart (if you are lucky) in the first solid storm offshore. You will have enough on your mind trying to survive the storm. You don't need to be worried about your boat too. At about 25 miles or so, you are beyond VHF and its just you and your life vest. A rescue could take hours or days or longer via EPIRB.

You want to put your life on the line for this boat... or one that will likely cost you less but you will have to wait/shop for? Get out there and go sailing. See your dreams. Don't get burnt out on a project from hell.

Again, my opinions.

- CD


----------



## JomsViking

Paradox, one of the pictures also show that the handholds inside the cabin are loose, as that handhold is connected to the outside (they're bolted together IIRC), that means the core is full of water, so the cabin and deck is certain to be saturated with water. Ask someone you trust to walk on it, and I bet they will report that it felt spongy. They are excellent boats, but everything can be ruined by neglect.


----------



## tommays

This is my nice used 1981 boat that was dirty but had no real issues

Two more seasons of 20+ knot racing would seem to prove this out BUT and i am a DIY cheep kind of guy who ONLY replaced things that were needed for safe function

I am taking 3800 dollars in paint, standing rigging,running rigging (ropes) repiaring sails in GOOD condition and looking the other way on a few things  till next year

My next boat looks like it MAY be a 1970 Cal 29 with a FRESH WATER cooled A4, new standing rigging ,new profurl headsail system ,leisure furl boom and a WHOLE bunch of ugly

BUT i know were the boats been the last 30 years and after looking it over i am willing to bet the 500 on the survey (your gonna need that to get insurance)and will walk away if it coems back BAD


----------



## MorganPaul

> gelcoat crazing from sunburn is no tgoing to kill the boat.


I agree with zeehag's statement.

I disagree with Heart Attack Paul. The hull is gonna be solid.
If you do it, good luck.

Paul


----------



## MtnMike

I don't know what you would have to pay for that one, but here's one the works. Asking $6,000 but would surely take less.
1975 Albin Vega Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
You can at least use the pics to know what the other one should look like.


----------



## Mimsy

By all means, buy the boat. Slap some epoxy on it, make some sails from cheap bed sheets, power it with a Go Kart engine and set off to see the world. That is totally rebellious-go -against-the-grain dude! Awesome! Just please don't be a jerk and radio for help when it all goes awry. Then you are putting the lives of those who would come to your aid at risk. 

I can not believe after getting the opinion of a well respected marine surveyor who is telling you that JUST from the photos alone this is one to walk away from. It is a rarity for a surveyor to tell anyone to walk based on photos alone- DANGER WILL ROBINSON! The fact that CP is telling you to walk from a virtually free boat should speak volumes.


----------



## Cruisingdad

MtnMike said:


> I don't know what you would have to pay for that one, but here's one the works. Asking $6,000 but would surely take less.
> 1975 Albin Vega Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
> You can at least use the pics to know what the other one should look like.


EXACTLY!!!! Why in the world would anyone take on that Japanese Herri-Kari (sp) when for 6k you could have a boat like you presented? It is not that any of us are pushing you away from a Vega. I too have been an advocate of them since learning mroe from some members here (especially Vega1860 who would be an awesome resource for you as he has done what you are talking about). What we are saying is that it would be less expensive and a smarter purchase to get a boat that at least is sea worthy and at the very least money-worthy. I hope that makes sense. We are not trying to rain on your parade. However, you strike me as someone that is making an impulsive purchase and not considering the reality of your endeavor or the negatives.

None of us have any alterior motives here.

- CD


----------



## zeehag

paradoxbox said:


> Again, thanks for all the replies guys. I'm sure many of you noticing and hating my rebellious, must-go-against-the-grain side in here already, haha. But I really appreciate the info / opinions. I'm not commited to buying this project, nor am I going to give it up. But if I am going to back away it would need to be for a good reason - if the hull is not sound that's a good enough reason.
> 
> I hear from people here that crazing could let water into the glass which results in a weak hull. And I'm also hearing here that the crazing on this boat is more severe than they have seen before. However, what I see elsewhere is that this kind of crazing is typical of 1960's fiberglass boats. I also haven't seen anyone mention hull crazing resulting in water damage. So while I believe people in both camps I think it's worth investigating a bit more in depth and not just making a kneejerk reaction based on how dirty and grimy it looks.
> 
> Something that keeps coming up in this thread is Glissandro, the old Triton boat that was restored to fantastic standards. I have been following that site for a long long time. I recently found the plastic classics forum too and started searching for gelcoat crazing.
> 
> I found a post by one of the members and included in the post was this photograph. Followed by the owner of Glissandro who mentioned that this kind of thing is extremely common (I think he said it was universal actually) on old fiberglass boats and appeared because the gelcoat was laid on too thick at the time of manufacture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So while I am hearing from people here that crazing may result in hull damage, I'm hearing from people over there that it's probably minor, and I'm seeing Glissando's owner also say it's a minor issue. His boat had pretty gnarly crazing when he bought it, you can see it on his website.
> 
> Thanks again for the link to the plastic classics forum. I hadn't checked it in a while and it reminded me to go back there.
> 
> I thought about doing the engineless thing but in my experience especially in the Pacific Northwest you can often get weeks of solid cloud cover or no wind which eventually would kill all my electricity and leave me with no way to navigate (can't even use a sextant if you don't have sun or stars to do it with).
> 
> Keep it coming with the posts. I'm sure there are a thousand others out there just like me who will stumble onto this thread with google sometime in the future and will appreciate the info contained.


i am of the old school---the 1/8 inch thick gelcoat that was hand painted into the mold when they hand laid your boat is excellent and will look like sh*t now the boat has sat for a coupla years alone without love. the HAND LAID hull is not in jeopardy, and is about 1-1/2 inches thick, if made the same way as my friends was--is same year..LOL--if you desire, get a fiberglass expert--not one who has a 1980s boat or newer--an old fashioned real boat builder who used to ..maybe still does--hand lay ups of dinks or big boats and have him look at it for your own edification. i think you have a good buy there---no pun at all----lol......and i think that when you are finished wiuth your project you will have an excellently seaworthy boat----the interior looks ok--just needs to have the attachments re applied/reinstalled---does it have a volvo diesel?? many came with those, i understand from a friend with one of the ones in my area----his was broken for a minuet--but he fixed it....the varnished wood looks good--isnt it teak?? is spozed to be--formica always looks like hell, and it delaminates easily=--i donot know why anyone ever used it in boats-was bad enough in houses LOL---i have some in my formosa----hate it--needs to be replaced with something less tacky and ugly-----what you found and found really cheeeply , is a good little cruiser that can handle mostly anything and has quite a bit of potential.....you can do it--i wanna see pix of the progress and i wanna know how many times ye cussed her out in the meantime!!!! you will, ya know!!! but i think you have a goood boat that will get you anywhere you wish to go...the hulls were hand laid and therefore are quite thick as compared with the boats made after 1976........i also believe you will have much less intensive work to do than folks are saying to you--perhaps jealousy is a motivator for negativity--i donot know----you got her for a really good price, so nothing is a waste...and with the yard workers making from 85-130 dollars hourly, you will do quite nicely fixing her on your own-----you will also know your boat much better than if you hadnt begun this project.....have fun and smoooth sailing.....show pix when you are finished and thruout your repairs....


----------



## Cruisingdad

Mimsy said:


> By all means, buy the boat. Slap some epoxy on it, make some sails from cheap bed sheets, power it with a Go Kart engine and set off to see the world. That is totally rebellious-go -against-the-grain dude! Awesome! Just please don't be a jerk and radio for help when it all goes awry. Then you are putting the lives of those who would come to your aid at risk.
> 
> I can not believe after getting the opinion of a well respected marine surveyor who is telling you that JUST from the photos alone this is one to walk away from. It is a rarity for a surveyor to tell anyone to walk based on photos alone- DANGER WILL ROBINSON! The fact that CP is telling you to walk from a virtually free boat should speak volumes.


And I might add, Mimsy, he just got the advice for free. Most people pay for that.

My advice isn't worth anything so you can take it appropriately!!!

Just move on, Partner. Put $6,000 bucks together, get a Vega in good condition, and go for it.

- CD


----------



## Cruisingdad

zeehag said:


> i am of the old school---the 1/8 inch thick gelcoat that was hand painted into the mold when they hand laid your boat is excellent and will look like sh*t now the boat has sat for a coupla years alone without love. the HAND LAID hull is not in jeopardy, and is about 1-1/2 inches thick, if made the same way as my friends was--is same year..LOL--if you desire, get a fiberglass expert--not one who has a 1980s boat or newer--an old fashioned real boat builder who used to ..maybe still does--hand lay ups of dinks or big boats and have him look at it for your own edification. i think you have a good buy there---no pun at all----lol......and i think that when you are finished wiuth your project you will have an excellently seaworthy boat----the interior looks ok--just needs to have the attachments re applied/reinstalled---does it have a volvo diesel?? many came with those, i understand from a friend with one of the ones in my area----his was broken for a minuet--but he fixed it....the varnished wood looks good--isnt it teak?? is spozed to be--formica always looks like hell, and it delaminates easily=--i donot know why anyone ever used it in boats-was bad enough in houses LOL---i have some in my formosa----hate it--needs to be replaced with something less tacky and ugly-----what you found and found really cheeeply , is a good little cruiser that can handle mostly anything and has quite a bit of potential.....you can do it--i wanna see pix of the progress and i wanna know how many times ye cussed her out in the meantime!!!! you will, ya know!!! but i think you have a goood boat that will get you anywhere you wish to go...the hulls were hand laid and therefore are quite thick as compared with the boats made after 1976........i also believe you will have much less intensive work to do than folks are saying to you--perhaps jealousy is a motivator for negativity--i donot know----you got her for a really good price, so nothing is a waste...and with the yard workers making from 85-130 dollars hourly, you will do quite nicely fixing her on your own-----you will also know your boat much better than if you hadnt begun this project.....have fun and smoooth sailing.....show pix when you are finished and thruout your repairs....


Our advice is not to give up his dreams, it is to put his hard earned money in a good foundation. For $6,000, assuming no negotiation, would you not take the other boat? At least for me, that is the point I am trying to make.

I am nottrying to say you are wrong, I am simply explaining my point of view and what I feel others have said. Jealousy is not why others have told him not to take this boat. It is because we feel that the money would be better spent on something in better condition. No one here, not you or CP or Mimsy or anyone has any alterior motives here. We are giving our opinions. He asked for them. And Paul is a surveyor, His certainly means more than mine. I have found him very knowledgeable on many subjects. And when he opens his mouth, I listen.

- CD


----------



## MorganPaul

> And Paul is a surveyor, His certainly means more than mine. I have found him very knowledgeable on many subjects. And when he opens his mouth, I listen.


I agree he is very knowledgeable. I have learned a lot about Atomic Fours from reading his posts.

But when he says :



> The gelcoat IS too far gone. The damage is into the hull structure. Its not just cosmetic.


I disagree.


----------



## Cruisingdad

MorganPaul said:


> I agree he is very knowledgeable. I have learned a lot about Atomic Fours from reading his posts.
> 
> But when he says :
> 
> I disagree.


I am not educated enough to make that decision. I would suspect that CP is making his assumption based upon what he has seen in the past through countless surveys - but even he would need to see the boat first hand to know for sure. More than likely, he would see the pics and tell a buyer that it was not worth him coming out in the first place. But even if only the gell coat is cracking and the hull itself is in good conditions, how many other problems does she have? How quickly could he eat up $6,000? Look a the other boat for 6K MP... at least it has the appearance of being cared for. That Japanese boat looks like no one has opened the inside for a decade.

whether it is all the way in the hull, I simply do not know and cannot make that determination. Seems to me though that it is only part of his problem(s).

- CD


----------



## josrulz

Paradoxbox, everyone here is going to have an opinion, and some of them very strong ones. There's obviously a lot of reservation upon looking at the pics, so while it's possible these posters are incorrect (afterall they can't see the boat in person), it's probably worth at least noting these concerns. Ultimately, you'll make your own decision, as it should be.

If you were to ask me for my thoughts on this, I'd say you should look at some other boats. In fact, look at LOTS of boats for sale in the cheap/free price range, then decide whether this one is really the one you want. In my boat search, I found that the more boats I looked at, the more I knew what I wanted (and didn't want). My guess is that this boat is not going anywhere. And if it does get sold, it's not a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that you've missed. That's really the key. 

There are many other boats, and you may find one that has a lot more going for it than this one and for the same or less $. If you don't find something, then come back and look at this one again, armed with the experiences of seeing many other boats.

That's my suggestion. Either way, I wish you much luck in your boat quest. 
Cheers,
J


----------



## TQA

Run away from that one. It is too far gone. Hull interior sails and engine all are bad. Forget it.

If you are in Canada/USA you can find a better fixer upper with a little bit of application. Start watching ebay for something like this.

1972 Coronado 27' Used Sailboat - CT:eBay Motors (item 360182098824 end time Aug-26-09 16:00:00 PDT)

OR better still

Catalina 27 sailboat:eBay Motors (item 230369834187 end time Aug-28-09 17:14:17 PDT)

There are lots of deals just now. Look around in yards for abandoned boats and see if you can buy it for the yard fees or less!


----------



## MorganPaul

> That Japanese boat looks like no one has opened the inside for a decade.


I think the boat was made in Holland. The dude lives in Japan. The boat is in the good old USA.

Check it out :
The Albin Vega


----------



## Cruisingdad

MorganPaul said:


> I think the boat was made in Holland. The dude lives in Japan. The boat is in the good old USA.


I am sorry... I thought the boat was in Japan too. But wether Japan, US, or the moon, it does not change the point I was making. And MP, you may be right. It may be a diamond in the rough... I just doubt it.

- CD

EDIT - I should also point out that I have reccomended Albins to many people here. I like their boats. That is not the issue. It is THIS boat that is the issue, not the Albins. You can take a Hinkley and destroy it with neglect.


----------



## davidpm

Paradox you are in exactly the same spot I was 30 plus years ago.
I did exactly the same thing you are proposing only my "project" was a 36' Crocker Schooner. What a "potentially" beautiful boat and I was a finish carpenter / cabinet maker.
It feels like I'm writing to my younger self.

Let me guess. You don't have the $6,000 to buy the saleable boat.
You have maybe $3,000 and figure a grand for the boat a grand to move it a grand for parts to start working on it.

The fact of the matter is that we don't know what resources and skills you have. Based on your comments however you are not a skilled marine, rigger, fiberglass guy or diesel mechanic and have to get a job to support yourself and find a place to work on the boat evenings and weekends.

Get a job at a boat yard. You will need a job anyway. Why not work someplace you will learn from experts how to do the job.
Rather than working at a crappy job you hate during the day and spending every dime and all night and weekends attempting to do a job you don't know how to do get paid for learning on someone Else's boat.
It is a win in all ways.

You will get your boat faster by earning the money at a boatyard then spending it on a boat that is possible beyond repair.
You will be in the perfect place to find an abandoned boat in decent shape.
You will have access to discarded parts for free.
You will learn how to do things the right way.
Your estimates for costs are way, way off. Just tyvek coverall's, respirator and solvents will be more that your whole painting budget. Masking tape, brushes, fillers, sandpaper, grinders did I mention sandpaper will use up your budget again. I've got over $2,000 into a 10' plywood nesting dinghy (Spindrift). I did the exact same thing you did. Added up all the parts before I started the project but it came out more than double. 
Others with more experience will correct me but even at port supply prices I suspect that the paint, and paint supplies would cost up-wards of 1,000 to 2,000.
Then their are tools. If you don't have what you need you have to buy, borrow or rent.
Yes you can get away with finding used and borrowing stuff. The downside is that it can take several times longer. A two hour job can easily take two days with trips to the store and the wrong tools.

My suggestion is to become a professional then you can answer you own questions.

An option that may generate more information for you is to offer the current owner a couple days of your time for free to "work" on his boat a little.

Remove a couple of through-hulls.
Scrub it a bit and see what happens to the gel-coat
Take out some of the bad interior wood and see if the wood connected to it falls out too.
Take up CP on his offer and see if you can push a screwdriver through the hull. Drill a 1/2" hole a few places. It is easy to repair and you get to see the inside layup of the hull. Use a plug bit and send the core to CP for analysis.
I've done this kind of project and sometimes in the first couple of days I find out I've made a horrible mistake.
Usually you soldier on however and burn up a few thou before walking away.
Doing it before you have paid for the boat however may make your decision clearer.


----------



## mikehoyt

Hey - a lot of people would have thought I was nuts for getting a 1987 boat that had deck core issues and old sails. However I had performed deck core repairs on my previous boat and had been shown how to do it by a competent boat builder. I do not regret any of it.

let me tell you about the process though,

I too am a bit impatient. i like to sail and wanted a boat that needed some work rather than one it had been done on and I would have to pay for.

The first thing I did was a complete bottom job because the bottom looked horrible and because I wanted to see if the hull was sound. If I liked spending money I would have had it sand, soda or dry ice blasted. However I am cheap and decided to save money and spend time instead. the job took 53 hours. Doesn't sound like much but that is 53 hours of very hard labour. very hard, tedious boring labour. 53 hours while pretending to have a life takes approx 3 weeks if you are fanatic. The hull was in fact sound - I count my blessings for that but had expected it.

The cracked deck around stanchions looked bad but was just rotted core in a sandwich construction. Simple job but it took 35+ hours. These were typically up at 5, work on the boat from 6-8AM, go to work, run home at noon to put on a quick layer of resin or paint, then after work from 5:30 til dark. Do this for two straight weeks and the job is done.

There were numerous other tasks and upgrades and fixes such as a rotted sole, etc.. that had to be corrected. More than 130 hours just to get the boat suitable for the water in the first year - knowing that I still had a LOT to do that was not obvious for the second year.

So do I regret it - NO. Over 300 hours of very hard labour over two years. However - there was a lot very good about the boat. New cushions, new sails (cruising cut), well maintained and serviced motor, etc.... basically a good boat that had been neglected in some areas.

This particular boat you are looking at appears neglected in many areas. Not a good sign.

You can buy one in much better condition still needing work and save money. You should be prepared to have his boat surveyed or at least have someone who knows boats well have a close look.

Is an interesting discussion and it seems some persons take offense at a boat that presents poorly being called for what it is. It looks to me like a boat that has been neglected and then had a very quick cleanup to look less bad. A single problem such as a fried engine, osmosis, wet deck, etc.. .is not a big deal or a deal breaker. Numerous problems may be

Mike


----------



## davidpm

You may also want to read Fix IT and Sail by Brian Gilbert.
A great writer who restored a 1972 MacGregor Venture (don't ask why)
Great story, a lot of well researched information and actual times and costs.


----------



## NCC320

Paradox...

Just why did you even ask for advice? Your mind is/was made up. 

I guess my take on this particular situation is: If you are serious about a boat, this is not the one. There are better ones. The $6K Vega that has been suggested probably has problems, but you can look at it and tell someone has tried to do right by it. Also, it's one you can sail now and concurrent with making repairs. There are lots of others, but you insist on the piece of junk you found. Fine, by your own words, you are impatient, have limited funds, limited experience. So, in my opinion, any boat will work for you because the work is hard, the materials are expensive, and without knowhow, the result of the work will be lousy. But, all this takes time, and no doubt, you'll loose patience quickly anyway and abandon the project. So any boat, good or bad will work. Go for it. A final thing to mull over, if you are impatient to get into sailing, wouldn't a boat that is sailable now make sense?


----------



## paradoxbox

NCC320 said:


> Paradox...
> 
> Just why did you even ask for advice? Your mind is/was made up.


No way, my mind is definitely not made up. As I mentioned before, I just won't make a decision either way without knowing exactly why I should make that decision, which is why I made this monster of a thread.

Don't get me wrong people - I'm not a block headed idiot. I haven't even made the guy an offer on it yet, I just know that it's almost free and he still has it.

Yeah, there are other boats out there, and of course I am looking at them.

For what it's worth I have a lot of my own tools, not for woodwork or metalwork though.


----------



## davidpm

paradoxbox said:


> For what it's worth I have a lot of my own tools, not for woodwork or metalwork though.


Are you willing to give more details?
What tools do you have?
What kind of transportation: Truck etc.
What kind of time do you have?
How much cash do you have right now for this project?
What skills do you have?
Will you be working at a job during the project, doing what.
What state?
Where will you work on the boat?
Do you know people skilled in boat repair.
How much experience do you have sailing?

All these things directly speak to your chances of success.

PS. What do you think of my boatyard job idea?


----------



## mitiempo

The boat was built in Sweden as all Albin boats were. The interior is mahogany and mahogany ply as is traditional in Sweden. If potential can be described as the most room for improvement then this boat has more potential than I've seen in ages. As does this thread - it's starting to rival crimping vs soldering, anchor choices, and cruising with guns for stamina. And I agree - 1000 to 2000 for materials to get hull in shape if only cosmetic damage for the most part. And many many hours of skilled labour whether paid for or learned by an inexperienced owner who bit off more than he can chew. And that's just the beginning. Make of the interior what you will, but the rig will be expensive no matter how you do it and it will need replacing after all these years, inboard engine as an outboard is not for this type of boat, used sails and then you have a boat some body may pay 3000-5000 for - after you put that much into it and if you do a good job. I think the Vega on Yachtworld - asking 6000 but I bet you could get it for closer to 4500 - is a much better buy. It would let you sail probably 3-5 years sooner. Because even if you are a fast learner and worker you also have to work for the money to continue.
Brian


----------



## sailingfool

IMHO, threads like this are turning Sailnet into a joke.


----------



## sarafinadh

Ok, a comparison;

our little hole in the water;
1967 Cal 28 FLush Deck, hull number 181.
It's bone dry, no mold or mildew to be found, hull is solid as a rock.

The worst part of it was that the entire interior paint job was peeling. Nasty to scrape and sand and scrub, but brainless easy work, not rocket science, (or boat building) and Himself can do all that himself.

The wiring itself is ok, but the bus bar is shot from corrosion and needs replacement with a fused box and the switch panel (which I am working on as we speak) needs new switches for the lights. Don't know yet if the lights work. Need to get juice to them and replace bulbs at the very least. All of this is pretty straightforward stuff, similar to things I have learned how to do on my hundred year-old edwardian townhouse.

The mast and shrouds are sound, but not excellent. They are scheduled to be replaced in the next year. I put that down to normal wear and tear on a boat laid on 1967.

The sails are sound but not excellent. The main is prolly most in need of replacement. The jib, jenny and spinnaker look pretty good. They are all fine for the bay sailing we will be doing initially. I expect to be working with sailrite to make a new main when this one gives up the ghost.

The outboard is in apple pie order.

The ropes are ok, not beautiful, but functional. I expect to put a new line (or sheet, I always forget which ; -) on the main halyard when I get up the mast to refasten it.

The spreaders need to be sanded and varnished. wood is sound.

gelcoat looks like crap. chalky and crazed in many places. Needs to be cleaned and then sealed. Core is sound however, no de-lamination that I (or a boat guy who looked at it) can find anywhere. The many of the screws that go thru the deck need to be reseated/sealed. I plan on removing them all, drilling out, epoxying, redrilling and reseating in a few months. after the urgent stuff gets done.

everything else is cosmetic. making it nice, improving on systems or adding them to suit us.

Ok, the little rudder problen we are dealing with isn't cosmetic, but that happened after we bought here andthe cause is as yet undermined.

So you have that picture, in comparison to what you are looking at?

$2400.00, delivered to our dock. total.

It's a buyer's market right now...


----------



## paradoxbox

That's a good deal you got there, and the condition sounds fair, but it's not a Vega or other offshore boat which I think changes the picture a bit.

The Vega is well known for being a bluewater boat. That's why I'm looking at this one in the first place, even if it's in bad shape. The Cal 27 definitely is not an offshore boat. It's done a few circumnavigations but it's more known as a daysailing or coastal cruiser. It's a great boat but it won't do what I need in a boat.

By the way I sent an offer a few days back for the $6000 yachtworld boat but they never bothered replying. It wasn't a stupid ultra lowball either. I mailed them again the other day telling them that if they didn't like my bid they should at least make a counteroffer if they want the thing sold, but no response. I've never had good luck with yachtworld unfortunately. Lot of flakey yachtbrokers that don't want to talk to people with cash in hand. Maybe they all want the buyers to finance the purchase through them or something?

In regard to my tools, I have a decent capacity compressor, hvlp spraying guns, respirator, etc etc. I used to own some pretty slick sports cars before I came to Japan and did my own paint jobs and body kits for them and still have the equipment left over.


----------



## sarafinadh

uh... that was a Cal 28, not a 27, and it's a flush... and that boat has done plenty of bluewater work... so, comparable I would say... We bought her as a starter and planned to get something else in a few years to cruise in, and all we have heard is "keep that little Cal, she will go anywhere...

pretty similar holes in the water. oh, except mine _is_ a hole in the water... the one you are looking at is a hole in the air I guess! ; -}

You said you were heading back stateside soon, when you get here you will have lots of opportunity to browse and shop. That might make it easier to decide.

We may still upgrade a bit because I AM a high maintenance girl and want my creature comforts, which take room ya know!


----------



## saildork

Sara, You are a breath of fresh air in this place. Thanks for joining in.

Sailingfool, chill out, man. The kid has been given a lot of good advise. He can now make an informed decision and then live with the result. Who knows how it might all work out? True, the thread probably didn't need to go on this long, but so what? 

Pat
Don't worry. Be happy.


----------



## NCC320

Paradox: 

A statement or group of statements that leads to a contradiction or a situation which defies intuition


----------



## jephotog

*Poor Kid*

You sound a lot like me at that age. I looked at a Vega about a decade ago with the same dreams you had, but I knew better than to invest in a huge project that might never be done.

I say you go for it, if nothing more for a good learning experience for me and the rest of us here as we hope to hear reports of your trials and tribulations while spending the next 2-3 years and 10s of thousands of dollars on a $15k boat.

Just as an exercise in reality before you start go and price out flairs, dock lines, fenders, PFDs and about 20 other things a boat will need to sail or be legal. Check out new sails just in case sewing your own proves not to work out maybe new rigging will be in order as well.

One other option though is to suck it up and work for the man for a year or two or work 3 casual jobs, sleep on friends couches, watch your expenses, and buy a boat in need of some work but fully equipped, you'll be years and 1000s of dollars ahead.


----------



## sailingfool

jephotog said:


> ...I say you go for it, if nothing more for a good learning experience for me and the rest of us here as we hope to hear reports of your trials and tribulations while spending the next 2-3 years and 10s of thousands of dollars on a $15k boat. ...


Sailnet is littered with threads like this - know-nothing dreamers who feel they know it all. Unfortuantely, when the dreamer learns the hard way the lessons other dreamers might benefit from, or that would at least be very entertaining to readers, the thread just dies and the poster disappears.

That is, idiots don't post the news that displays they are in fact such. Still, it's not that hard to see them coming.


----------



## paradoxbox

sailingfool said:


> Sailnet is littered with threads like this - know-nothing dreamers who feel they know it all. Unfortuantely, when the dreamer learns the hard way the lessons other dreamers might benefit from, or that would at least be very entertaining to readers, the thread just dies and the poster disappears.
> 
> That is, idiots don't post the news that displays they are in fact such. Still, it's not that hard to see them coming.


Where did I ever say I knew it all? If anything pollutes this forum it's people with a big stick up their arse complaining about other people asking for more information. If you don't like my thread don't read it. It's getting a bit annoying to watch you continue to make personal attacks at me, my intelligence, my ability to do this or that. You don't even know who I am, so keep those kinds of comments to yourself.

I've been reading this forum since 2004 or 2005, registered in 06 or 07. I have better things to do than rack up 2,000 posts criticizing other people's threads.


----------



## imagine2frolic

If I thought I could bring the boat around to breathing again. I would make the offer of zip, nada, zero. The person should be glad to get it off his property. It's only going to get worse. The boat won't heal itself.

sailingfool,

It's people who went against the odds who got us on the moon. It was people with dreams that get us the next step forward. I agree with cardiacpaul. The boat looks worthless. The support looks pushed in, and the carriage area for the shaft worries me. I am not even going to get into the interior!

There has been lots of good stuff in this thread. Most of it negative stuff about the boat itself, but in there are things to be learned, so I can't see how this thread is a waste. I would venture to guess you learned one small thing if not more. You need to remember no single one of us is as smart as all of us, and this is what forums are for. If it upset you so much why even post?.......*i2f*


----------



## Cruisingdad

sailingfool said:


> Sailnet is littered with threads like this - know-nothing dreamers who feel they know it all. Unfortuantely, when the dreamer learns the hard way the lessons other dreamers might benefit from, or that would at least be very entertaining to readers, the thread just dies and the poster disappears.
> 
> That is, idiots don't post the news that displays they are in fact such. Still, it's not that hard to see them coming.


That is very uncharachteristic of your typical posts which I highly enjoy reading. Your input here is gerenally spot on. I am just a bit surprised at this post and the previous which is not your typical post and certainyl not the temperment you have shown here or in person with those you have met (Alex).

Are you alright?

- CD


----------



## mitiempo

paradox
You have been given good information by many with years of experience. I rebuilt my first sailboat in 1969 and am nowhere near the most experienced poster on this thread. If you ask for good advice from so many experienced people and get that advice you should take it. It cost you nothing but is worth a great deal. The Vega in question is nowhere near free. Best to move on to a project worth completing for a reasonable amount of money.
Brian
ps below are two definitions of paradox - apt in my opinion


----------



## zeehag

i recent;ly bought a formosa 41 i was told would be toootime and money intensive fpor me to be ablew to sail in 5 yrs qwithout investing 150k into it---i have already finished my repopwer at 1/8 the cost of buying retail----there are many ways to achieve the completion of the boat within a coupla years without investing many thousands of dollars into it--safety equipment---easy to find inexpensively---there are ways to buy stuff without paying west marine cost plus 400 percent prices. i know--i do that all the time. i found my engine repower for 2500 dollars and installed it for the price of 3 loaves of homemade bread....LOL--was spozed to cost me over 15k....i find fenders that fly off snotty yotties boats and float freely around a bay(i now have enough of them to go thru panama canal LOL) ....free of charge.....i buy my fire extinguishers and flares at retail minus a decent percent .....there are ways to save money--there are swap meets.... there are alll kinds of ways to effect your goal should you decide to purchase this project. much of the albin vega looks like it would not be as costly , in time or money as originally is thought--is a solid hull, and has much potential--not to mention the po'-tential lol.....is all your decision to accept a project for the price or to go for the bigger investment of paying a lot more for one that will still need to be repaired----is your cjhoice---there are no perfect boats---none ---is all upo to what youare prepared to deal with vs what you can afford to pay out---getting a "better" one may not save you any money over the long run....every boat purchased needs something unknown to be done NOW-----with the project from hell you will invest tons of time and money but you wil know exactly what it is you have when you are finished. not many boat owners are in that position. the project is doable --everything is, nearly--there are some exceptions---albin vegas are tough little boats and have many lives--kinda like cats....you decide --you will be able to find assistance with things you arent able to figger out--is alll goood-----goood luck and smooth sailing......
( if ye buy the albin, race ye done with projects LOL)...btw--the rig replacement should be under 1200 dollars to effect---some you are able to do yourself--with some consultation from a pro.....my ericson was 1200 dollars estimated completed by a pro--for complete standing rigging changeout...something to think about....


----------



## smackdaddy

Paradox,

You've been here for almost 3 years, dude. So you've seen far more cranks than I have. Without doubt, SFool is a little cranky. But that's the way it goes.

I definitely don't think this thread is a waste, for anyone. I've learned a few things reading through it. And I think Sara's write up was great, along with many others.

But dude, do the math. Add up your numbers from page 1 (including the low quality replacements you'd use like marine grade plywood) and compare that to the $6K boat on YW (that you could most likely get for less). I count $6K without sails on your list - and I believe davidpm when he says it's going to be more. 

So in that light, the $6K YW boat looks pretty sweet - as do the ones above it in the $9K-$10K range. Sail or re-build? Man, that's an easy call.

Did you ever buy that Cal you were talking about in '06?

PS - I see where hellosailor turned you onto the Vega way back in the day. Sweet!


----------



## mikehoyt

Paradox

Determine where you will store this boat and how much it will cost you to get it there and for storage.

If the cost is close to zero then you have not lost a lot. 

If the cost of the boat is close to zero then you have not lost a lot.

I am all for you buying a project to work and learn on. So long as the project does not have costs beyond the actual work to be done. You can work on the boat and see what is really involved and decide to keep it or get rid of it.

Just please dont spend $2000 on the boat and then $1000 on transport costs and then $1000/year to store it on the hard.

If you can get it for free that is not really unreasonable as this boat is stored somewhere by someone who would like it moved. At free and no storage and transport costs you are not going to lose much. You might actually gain a lot from working on the boat a while - even if the boat in the end can not be fixed.

Remember that Tim Lackey undoubtedly spent a lot more than Glissando was worth in restoration but he had his own reasons. 

I did see one Vega listed at $3200 somewhere yesterday. It may be the same one for all I know. One I saw was listed as decent with engine not working.

Have fun. Do what I don't and heed others but do not let that deter you from sailing. We all had to learn to do this stuff somewhere

One final thing - I learned a bit about the Albin Vega over the last two days.

Thanks

Mike


----------



## theartmkr

realistically, even if you are doing all the work yourself, be prepared to shell out 10-15K over the next two years just in parts and supplies. I am not saying that it is not worth it, but you must decide if you really enjoy restoring an old boat, and that you get as much pleasure out the restoration process as the sailing process....(which many of us do), but if this is just about money......there are other boats out there that don't need more than minor cosmetics that can be had for 7-10K. If you love the process, go for it and have something that you can take a great deal of pride in when done, if not, walk away.

william


----------



## mitiempo

15k might be a bit light when you list rigging, sails, engine, electrical, paint, etc. Good head hose that doesn't permeate smells is $10/ft for example and you can't buy that used  or rigging for that matter. Common thought is that the hull and deck are maybe 25% of the price of the finished boat. That's all this boat currently is except the hull and deck require a lot of work. If you love this boat and have the skills, dollars, and stamina to finish and you do a first class job of it so it doesn't look home finished in any way it will be valued at market price. Right now that's between 6000 and 15000 and I bet you could pick up any one of them at a 30% discount if you waved cash. There is a reason that people cut up old boats with a chainsaw - they're not always worth saving when you look at all the numbers. Even if they're free. 
Now if you dream of sweating and pouring all your $ into a plastic classic with no hope of financial return after several years of rebuilding this boat and then sailing away, go for it. But don't expect much resale unless you're an accomplished woodworker, electrician, mechanic, and rigger. If you bought the 6000 Vega for 4500 and put 5000 - 6000 into it you would have a boat you could get most of your money out of and it would take years less and take you anywhere. Restoring a classic is commendable but not often dollar wise. I'm doing just that to a 1977 CS27 I purchased last October. When I purchased the boat she had been sitting for 1 year out of water and had a recent hull strip and barrier coat applied. Yanmar diesel worked, came with 5 sails, good interior, some soft spots on deck and needing cockpit sole recored. I've added new winches, new clutches, stove, all new dc wiring inclusing lights and panel, new fuel tank, engine panel, interior changes, rebuilt water pump and starter, new head, and new compass. I still have new rigging, lifelines, bow roller, dodger, solid vang, 7 new through hulls and ports to go. And a windvane and storm jib. I don't expect to sell this boat as I'm close to retirement. But this is my 8th boat and 4th major rebuild. I am an accomplished woodworker, good at glass work and electrical, passable at diesel mechanics but improving, and able to do my own rigging for the most part - I can't weld so pay for that. I own good tools for all the above probably to the tune of $6000+. When I finish next spring I'll know every inch of my boat - almost do now. But is this logical? Not really except when I go offshore I want to know my boat inside out and be able to fix most anything - anywhere. But it's not financially viable - when I finish I will have spent a total of 30000 including purchase price for a boat I'd be lucky to get 18000+ for. Better equipped for sure and in almost every way better than new. Besides I enjoy the work and the challenge of improving something. But I know a losing proposition when I see it. You could if skilled build a new boat faster than restoring that Vega to good condition - and probably for less $. 
Brian


----------



## PorFin

cardiacpaul said:


> First.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See the pads? I'll bet dollars to donuts that there is significant deflection right there. On all the pads. You know what deflection means, right?
> 
> That means that at least some of the lil glassy things (they look like strings or a fabric,) have done broke-ded. not good for hull integrity.


Paradox,

Paul's observation above should be all you need to intelligently decline this hull.

Hulls are supposed to curve out -- not in. As you can see in the pic, this one curves in the wrong direction under the pad. The fiberglass is compromised. And unless the guy who built the trailer was an idiot (no guarantee that he wasn't), those pads should have been placed opposite structural members inside the boat (bulkheads, stringers, etc.) The clear deflection also leads me to suspect that there could be internal structural compromise as well.

IMO you'll be saving a lot of money by spending a little more up front -- look for a better Vega and buy that one.


----------



## smackdaddy

CP - gotta say, looks like you nailed this one, dude. You just made a fellow Texan damn proud.


----------



## sarafinadh

one of the most fascinating reads on boat restoration I have ever seen is here at Renegade Cruisers.

Reading this lays out in an awe inspiring and slightly scary way just *what* _*is*_ involved in a marine overhaul...

It was worth it to them, but it's not for everyone...


----------



## JimHawkins

First of all, you have to be fair with your numbers. You say you are just going to put an outboard on it, but you keep dropping the 6-10k value. These are not the same boat. Vegas without a working engine go for less than $3k, several are available now for $1k to $2k (google Vega sale and you'll find them).

Next, lets look at what some other people did. Go look at "The Log of Whisper" The Log of Whisper and "Whisper is for sale" Whisper is for sale!

Here you'll find some folks that did EXTENSIVE renovation on a Vega, sailed her for 3 yrs, then sold her. They did everything that needed to be done to make a solid boat, they did it right, and Whisper just sold for $14k. God only knows how much they spent. I wouldn't be surprised if it was $30k. You say you're going to take this boat to Japan? You better be ready to do everything Hans and Kristen did if you want to get there.

A part of your budget better look like this (and I know I'm missing a lot):
First, the hull. CP says it's toast. You say you can fix it for $1k to $2k. Lets pretend you're right. Next, your engine is toast. A new Beta Marine, transmission, and prop is $8k. Add $1k for labor if you're doing it yourself. Hans and Kristen spent $2k replacing the standing rigging. Let's pretend your mast, boom, chainplates, bow roller, pulpits, and rudder are all perfectly fine and don't need a penny. Let's add another $500 for running rigging bought on ebay. Hans and Kristen spent $2k rewiring their boat, and it was in a lot better shape than yours to start with. Shall we add another $500 for anchors and rode (you are really an amazing shopper). You can build your own dingy for $200 worth of epoxy and plywood. The sails on this boat are hopeless. Lets say $3k. The blocks and winches are useless. Lets add another $1k for salvaged replacements. You'll need batteries, sail covers, lifelines, dodger, bimini, electronics, safety equipment... The list goes on.

This boat will cost way way way more to bring back to life than it will ever be worth. That's sad, but true. And that's why it's been sitting on the American Vegas for Sale site for ages now.


----------



## bloodhunter

Hey Paradox,
This is a fascinating thread, glad you started it. You've gotten lots of advice from some very knowledgable people most of whom say you should walk away. I look at it this way, if you can get the boat for little or nothing (and judging from the photos they should actually pay to have you haul it away) and if transportation and storage costs are not very high, you have nothing much to lose. 
If you can find work in a boatyard as has been suggested earlier, you'll be even better off, You'll be learning about what you need to do from people who know how it's done and you'll probably have access to at least some of the tools you'll need. Who knows, you may even be able to store the boat in a corner fo the yard very cheaply. 
All that being said, what can happen. Either the boat is salvagable or its not. If it is you'll eventually have a boat and more importantly you'll have gained the knowledge of how to repair every part of a boat and keep it in repair. If it's not, think of it as a two-year apprentice program in boat building. At the end, whatever happens you'll have the knowledge which is worth far more than the boat.
The only warning I would have is don't go into debt on this. Aside from that it's only money and you can always get more. You've got lots of time and what better way than to spend it learning -- and believe me this will be a learning experience no matter how it turns out. 
And by the 3way if you do get this boat or one in similar condition, cover it completely with a tarp while you're towing it away. Otherwise you'll leave a chain of accidents in your wake as people drive off the road, staring at the wreck on the trailer.


----------



## NCC320

1...I don't think Paradox ever intended to buy the boat described. He's taken the position he has just to get a big debate going..and it's working. I once had a boss who liked to debate technical issues of our business. He would start by making absurd statements on some subject. If the first one didn't work, he would come with a more absurd position. This process was repeated until some poor soul couldn't take it any more and then you had this heated debate.

2...I (first owner) once had a 28ft.sloop that needed some work after 25 years. An experienced carpenter bought the boat from second owner, while it was in completely sailable condition, and was going to up grade it. Two plus years later and thousands of dollars later, the boat lies abandoned in the yard, mast down, and unable to sail. The net effect of his efforts to up grade was to take the boat backwards from where it originally was. It is unlikely to ever sail again. Nor can it be sold since someone would have to undo everything just to get back to where it needed some minor work.

3....For someone impatient to charge ahead in life to waste two years trying to restore that wreck is a total waste of his life...it's junk now, it'll be junk then. It is indeed a paradox, if it really ever happens.


----------



## alanr77

This message is intended for the original poster; Not sure if this will mean anything to you but....

I am currently in the market for the same "type" boat that you are. I can also afford to pump at least 2k a month towards my "project"...

I look forward to a "project"

However, having spent countless dollars trying to restore classic cars, I have learned that some hulks are better left beside the barn so to speak. 

Now on to something more relevant, the exact boat that you are looking at showed up on my radar for a multitude of reasons, foremost being it is an Albin Vega on a trailer for 1500. However, everything in me said walk away. The reasons for this are;

1) I can find much more complete boats, some that have certain work already completed for not much more than what this boat costs. 

2) I have found that it is always easier to start with a solid foundation and build upon that than to re invent the wheel. 

3) There is usually a BIG difference between a 1500k boat and a 6k boat. I have found many 5-8k boats that could be sailed next season with a small investment of money and a large investment of time. The 1500k boats require a substantial investment of both. Will your dream and wallet last that long?

4) I too have been bitten by the bluewater, cruising budget lifestyle bug- so I empathize with your pain. BUT.....do you want to sail or work in a boatyard? 

5) Anything can be brought back to life, however, is the time and investment worth it? While you are still performing miracle's on a 10 year neglected, beaten boat, I will be sailing. 

6) Bottom line is- I deleted this boat from my prospective list.


----------



## miatapaul

Oh they want 1500 for that boat, I thought they were paying 1500 to haul it away! Even at that they would not be offering enough! Yea, I saw it on the Vega site. There was a nice one avialable in NH. Though it has sold. It had issues with a motor, but sounded repairable. 
1972 Albin Vega
He was asking $5995 for it.He has some good photos of what it should look like. 
I think if you offer to take the boat off the property for a thousand dollars(make sure you get cash), I bet they will offer to pay you $500 to take it. It is very much into the negative thousands in value now.


----------



## sww914

There is nothing good there. It's like looking at a potential mate. She's not pretty, she's mean, she's not smart or funny, and she's broke and crazy. Not a relationship I'd jump in to.


----------



## Sailmachine

sww914 said:


> There is nothing good there. It's like looking at a potential mate. She's not pretty, she's mean, she's not smart or funny, and she's broke and crazy. Not a relationship I'd jump in to.


Are you saying that there's another kind of woman out there?


----------



## JohnRPollard

I have been ignoring this thread. I couldn't bring myself to look at another "free boat" thread.

Just now my curiosity finally got the better of me -- something about the thread running for so many pages. I looked at the photos on the first page, but, sorry, didn't read any of the follow-up comments. So please forgive me if I'm being redundant.

But good lord almighty, RUN AWAY! 

You would be getting ripped off if you payed one cent for this vessel. They should be paying to have it hauled away. That's what they're going to end up doing unless they can persuade someone very naive that this vessel has inherent positive value. 

It doesn't. It has NEGATIVE value. Don't be taken.


----------



## nissantwa

*Albin Vega to restore w/trailer $1,500*

I'm a newbie so can't post a link. However, if you can find this Marblehead, Mass boat on the internet, it's full of great photos depicting the enormity of restoring a small boat. Even if it was free, you'd probably be into it for 10k by finish time.


----------



## mitiempo

You can't yet post a link but you can spell it out leaving www. out. I'd like to see it but need a better clue as to where it is.
Brian


----------



## nissantwa

*The $1,500 vega w/ trailer*

If you put 'albin vega for sale' in search,click on first item that comes up. At the bottom of that page is a forlorn vega on a trailer for cheap. 
americanvega.org/vegasforsale The usual htt etc for the start of this addy and it's a aich tee em el ending. thanks.


----------



## mitiempo

Thanks. I found the link and took a look at the whole mess. Examples to follow for those who haven't seen it.
Brian


----------



## mitiempo

continued...


----------



## mitiempo

Sorry for reposting. This thread has dragged on so long I forgot these pics were already posted. It reafirms my suggestion and that of others that this is a total lost cause and you couldn't pay me to take this on - well not pay me enough anyway.:laugher With so many boats in fair to good shape for sale for $3000 to whatever this makes no sense. If the hull and deck were in ok shape it might work for the stubborn few who have the skills, time, and need a multi year hobby. The hull and deck as posted before are only about 25% of the finished boat in dollars and this one is toast so you'd be starting with essentially zero. I would suggest you could build a boat from scratch and be way ahead of this disaster disguised as a boat - both in dollars and time. The 25lb CQR anchor does look ok though. But even it needs new chain. 
Brian


----------



## mikehoyt

I think there may be some value in this. I looked at all the pictures on the link 1969 Albin Vega Sloop For Sale and see a glimmer of some value.

The trailer looks like the complete wheels and probably other parts may have to be replaced but may be worth the effort. Boat trailers are over $3000 new and this one would likely cost approx $1000 to fix.

The whisker pole in the shed may be usable as well as the CQR anchor as pointed out earlier. There also may be some nice anchor line in there but would anyone trust ten year old line when anchoring given the condition of everything else?

Looking at the shed where the sails and cushions are stored I can see why this boat is so bad. It is damp in there and the sails were not even folded properly. 
the sails are garbage. there is no hope of using them for anything.

the engine looks pretty bad 
the wiring?
Is the deck cored? I didn't think vegas had cored decks but the hand rail inside has come detached - I wonder why?

Once you get rid of all the stuff that is garbage what is left?

... a hull that needs a lot of work and may or may not be repairable.
... rigging that is highly suspect.

I can see where the original question was coming from. Ican also see that when you look at the pictures you might see each individual thing and look past the UGH to see the possibilities.

This boat reminds me of a classic car that has been left sitting and sitting ... it is probably restorable but would certainly cost more than twice as much to restore as it would be worth when fully restored.

Looking at the ad on the link posted above my first reaction is "the trailer is not so bad" followed by UGH followed by "that could be fixed" followed by "why bother?"

Original post was quite valid. This boat certainly would be a challenge.

Saw also a C&C Redwing on Ebay current bid 750 that needs deck recored and some cabin sole work done. Also located in Mass. and bid closing today. Could probably be had for 1500 and is a very viable project. That one is interesting ...

Mike


----------



## flechenbones

*another Vega to consider...*

It floats, it's free
...and its already in Florida.

go to the following website. fortmyers.craigslist.org/chl/boa/1399506262.html]FREE sailboat 27ft ALBIN VEGA


----------



## smackdaddy

Jeez - one of you dudes need to buy Jody's boat. $1000 bucks for a C27 that's not all that projecty at all? He just put up an "ad" for it. *Check it out.*

Beats the hell out of this disaster.


----------



## tommays

FREE sailboat 1973 ALbin vega 27ft NO title, NO sails, No mast , No engine solid dry hull in the water tow it away or hook an outboard motor( has a bracket) Joe

Fabulous deal


----------



## TSOJOURNER

*If was in your shoes!!!!!!*



paradoxbox said:


> I recently discovered a very cheap late 60's Albin Vega 27'.
> 
> It has apparently been out of the water for almost 10 years and has extensive gelcoat crazing. From what I could see in the photos the crazing is from sunlight, not structural issues, and that's what I'd expect since the early Albin Vegas were built extremely tough. Mildew has grown into the crazing so it looks pretty weird but I think I could clean it up with acetone. With crazing that extensive it may not be worth it to redo the gelcoat, and instead just paint over it - I have seen some people here do that without issues.. What do you think?
> 
> The boat is covered in grime and dirt from all these years of neglect. The interior is really bad, I'd guess maybe about 30 to 60% of the wood is restorable, maybe more, but a lot of stuff will need to be redone to suit my taste. The interior paint is peeling and there's mildew everywhere inside. Clearly the interior needs work. I think it would look a lot better if it were just cleaned thoroughly with some bleach.
> 
> The cushions and etc are all toast but I know how to make cushions and it costs next to nothing to do so that's not a big deal.
> 
> The owner said the inboard engine worked the last time it was in the water, it's not much of a big deal to me, I can fix engines and I'm not even sure if I'd keep the engine if I get this boat, I might just put a 10hp outboard on.
> 
> That being said, according to the owner the hull is not rotten/crunchy and doesn't think the deck needs to be recored.
> 
> There are sails but they look to be in really bad shape. I think new sails would be a necessity. I don't know if I could make them myself or not, never tried. My machine might not be heavyweight enough to handle several layers of sail canvas.
> 
> Normally, I would not really consider a project that big. But this is an early thick hulled Albin Vega and it's up for pretty cheap. The cheapest Vegas I've seen that are still sailable are around 6-7,000$ but at that price they all have issues with mildew in the cabin and would require painting both inside and out just as much as this project boat needs it. The woodwork on those boats is usually heavily worn or damaged as well..
> 
> I figure if I do everything myself I can probably get the boat ready for sailing in 1-2 years with about $7,000 of wood/paint/wire/other materials.
> 
> About me: I have no savings and have no patience to save more than a few thousand dollars at a time, saving 20k to buy a boat ain't gonna happen. A project or cheap boat is basically my only option. I pulled the trigger on a Cal 27 about 2 years ago only to find the owner had sold it hours before to someone else. Damn.
> 
> What do you guys think? Worth it for an Albin Vega?


I wouldn't hesitate, as far as the dirt and grind go use a pressure washer but don't use the hard core tip on the deck and on the sides, it can strip the glass right off, but put some bleach in the mix and use the fan tip & stay at least 6 inches off the deck you should be in good shape. My ex-girlfriends uncle passed away & he had one of these, it was on the dock collecting seagull crap all over it for a couple of years and so they sold it for a song, I didn't know about it until too late, but the guy used a pressure washer on it and it worked like a Gennie!! I'd do the same to the inside too. As far as the engine is concerned they originally came with a Volvo Sea drive, one hell of a hearty little engine, fix it don't replace it. It's a lot easier than having to take off the engine every time your not on board so that nobody steals it. I would however have the diesel tank cleaned professionally and pumped out. The sails take to a local laundromat and use one of the big washers and wash the sails take a look at them , you just might need to have them restitched thats all, you probably can't do it on a Sears bought sewing machine as Sail sewing machines have different stitch patterns and they handle heavier stitching thread much stronger. You'll of course need to put up all new rigging, no exceptions!!! You might be able to save a little money by going to West Marine and using their directions if you've never made rigging before, but if you don't know what your doing, don't try to do it by yourself, NEVER SCRIMP ON RIGGING, as if it breaks it just might cost you your head!!!


----------



## TSOJOURNER

mallory42 said:


> I wouldn't hesitate, as far as the dirt and grind go use a pressure washer but don't use the hard core tip on the deck and on the sides, it can strip the glass right off, but put some bleach in the mix and use the fan tip & stay at least 6 inches off the deck you should be in good shape. My ex-girlfriends uncle passed away & he had one of these, it was on the dock collecting seagull crap all over it for a couple of years and so they sold it for a song, I didn't know about it until too late, but the guy used a pressure washer on it and it worked like a Gennie!! I'd do the same to the inside too. As far as the engine is concerned they originally came with a Volvo Sea drive, one hell of a hearty little engine, fix it don't replace it. It's a lot easier than having to take off the engine every time your not on board so that nobody steals it. I would however have the diesel tank cleaned professionally and pumped out. The sails take to a local laundromat and use one of the big washers and wash the sails take a look at them , you just might need to have them restitched thats all, you probably can't do it on a Sears bought sewing machine as Sail sewing machines have different stitch patterns and they handle heavier stitching thread much stronger. You'll of course need to put up all new rigging, no exceptions!!! You might be able to save a little money by going to West Marine and using their directions and then ordering it through them, but if you still don't know what your doing, don't try to do it by yourself,it will cost you more whey you screw it up & have to do it over again, NEVER SCRIMP ON RIGGING, as if it breaks it just might cost you your head!!!


oooooooooooooooo


----------



## TSOJOURNER

tommays said:


> FREE sailboat 1973 ALbin vega 27ft NO title, NO sails, No mast , No engine solid dry hull in the water tow it away or hook an outboard motor( has a bracket) Joe
> 
> Fabulous deal


 too far away


----------



## TSOJOURNER

*I can't imagine*



Sabreman said:


> Wow. The boat should be in the Boats of Shame thread.
> 
> I guess that it depends if you want something to work on or something to sail. It'll be a really long time before it's presentable.
> 
> That boat is a wreck and the owner should be ashamed. Paul's right. The boat is toast. Strip it and sell the parts? I think that I'd puke if I went below.


 Why would someone let such a sweet boat go to crap this way, I see so many down here in Florida like this that it just kills me. What even worse is that some of these forgotten boats are in a slip and somebody is still paying rent on them, talking about pissing away good money.


----------



## capnvega

For my 8th boat I just bought a Vega. The previous owner left pix on the yahoo Albin Vega site under "Long Beach Project". By the time I got it new 30gal H2O tank, holding tank, hoses, high pressure line for the Force propane heater, trysail, storm jib, VHF, sounder, cushions, and outboard bracket had been installed. I'll use my 9.9 4 stroke Yamaha till I can re-power. Rig looks good but is probably original. Hull and deck are fair, clean and solid. Windows and portlites are clear. 2 sets of sails are usable for now. Took me 2 days to clean up the wiring. I bought this boat for $400 craigslist.


----------



## smackdaddy

Holy crap, capn...sounds like you got a deal!

How does she sail?


----------



## TQA

Sounds like a good deal to me.


----------



## RichardReynolds

I have not seen crazing like that being caused by stress. Actually, respraying gel coat is not that difficult or hard. I saw it done in a garage on a hoby cat and it turned out great. In my mind the only question in my mind would be the integrity of the hull inside the gelcoat.


----------



## mitiempo

Sounds like a great deal. Glad it wasn't the wreck that started this thread.
I have always liked the Vega 27 
By the way, the line to the heater is a low pressure propane line - the high pressure line goes between the tank and the regulator which then lowers the pressure.
Here's a link you might not be aware of. Long and short voyages of Vega 27s.
Long and Short Voyages of Vega 27 sailboats and others
At the bottom of the page is the story of Tony Skidmore who circumnavigated in Lorna Doone - he's a local I met many years ago. "Bringing Lyra Home" is excellent as well.
Good Luck
Brian


----------



## capnvega

My intent was just to show that there are deals out there if if you take the time to look. I sail by "the crusher" regularly on my way to sea and nearly always see boats there that look a lot better than the one in question. That is what this kid is doing......looking from Japan at a boat in somebody's back yard here and asking us if he should save it from the crusher. I wouldn't..........Even after seeing the craigslist pix and talking to the owner I didn't commit to buy my boat 'till I had seriously inspected it personally................Anyway thanks for the links man- I've seen pix of Lorna Doon and would like to do the interior similarly. Thanks too for correcting me re: high/low pressure lines (all I knew was that they are new) and she is a great lil' sailer. Faster than I expected, but she does have a long LWL for a boat her size (23'+) and points very well. Still need a whisker pole for downwind. May take her to Catalina for Thanksgiving.


----------



## mitiempo

Yeah, most of us would agree some boats aren't worth saving and the one that started this thread is a classic example. Happy sailing.
Brian


----------



## davidpm

RichardReynolds said:


> I have not seen crazing like that being caused by stress. Actually, respraying gel coat is not that difficult or hard. I saw it done in a garage on a hoby cat and it turned out great. In my mind the only question in my mind would be the integrity of the hull inside the gelcoat.


Really, I would like to know how that works. Everyone I've ever talked to said that spraying all-grip was a super tricky project only done by professionals with special gear but the reason they used all-grip was that it was much easier and quicker than GellCoat.

If you have a way of doing Gellcoat that would be a better job than all-grip and easier too I would love to hear about it.


----------



## mitiempo

I think regardless of whether you use Awlgrip or gelcoat you have to get rid of the crazing first and make sure the hull is fair. That's a lot of sanding.
Brian


----------



## davidpm

mitiempo said:


> I think regardless of whether you use Awlgrip or gelcoat you have to get rid of the crazing first and make sure the hull is fair. That's a lot of sanding.
> Brian


In other words remove the existing gelcoat?

You could use a high build primer that would cover the cracks but they will telegraph though within a couple years. Do you agree?


----------



## capnvega

Fairing a hull is not for the novice. There are a lot of tricks to it and it takes a sensitive hand and a keen eye. Thank God for micro-spheres and a long piece of veneer. And it takes forever.


----------



## mitiempo

Whatever finish you put on (as paint) will telegraph the crazing sooner or later. The surface must be smooth and stable before painting. That can mean filling and fairing or removing if it's a disaster (as in the free Vega) to get to a stable substrate. And to me it doesn't make sense to cover something up badly. The labor to do the job is a fair amount and good coatings are expensive. If it's worth saving it's worth doing properly. In my opinion at least. And I've said I don't think the Vega that started this post is worth fixing. If you follow the theory that a hull is about 15% or even 20% of a finished boat in time and labor with the work it needs you're better off to build new. It's been a while and I'm not going to reread the posts but as I recall there wasn't much else great about this boat except original design either, was there? And I really like the Vega.
Brian


----------



## capnvega

Hey Paradox-(I hope he's OK!) I got some better deals for ya. GOOGLE............. " ebay 2010 storm damage sailboat choose any boat $450.00 "....... There is a Vega-esque full keel in there for ya.


----------



## mitiempo

Nothing like a Vega in that list - all fin keel boats. A couple look like they're not worth the $450.
Catalina 25
Catalina 27
Pearson 30
San Juan 23
Starwind 22
Islander 26
Newport 30
Brian


----------



## capnvega

Brian, there are 2 boats in that yard I just could not call fin keels-Craig


----------



## mitiempo

Which 2? If you mean the San Juan 23 and the Starwind 22 they aren't anywhere near the category of a Vega. They're trailer'sailers and one was brought to you by the company that created the K-car. The others are at least somewhat comparable to a Vega as far as size and accomodation goes.


----------



## celenoglu

When I was young, looked for a boat with one of my experienced friends. We found a few boats that were in my budget and good condition. My firend insisted that we can find better ones for these prices. Unfortunately found none and all were sold in the mean time. I found a wooden boat in a garden and bought it. I worked on her nearly for a year for the rebuilding and some more time for the engine. I finally managed to float her and in good condition. 

What I learned:

1. Buying a boat that needs real work is always more expensive than buying a good one.
2. My intention was sailing, but with that boat my intention changed to repairing.
3. Although I used the boat for a long time I was never happy with it.

If you are mainly planning to sail forget this boat, look for a better one. If your hobby is boat restoration, buy this one and restore it.


----------



## papad

davidpm said:


> Really, I would like to know how that works. Everyone I've ever talked to said that spraying all-grip was a super tricky project only done by professionals with special gear but the reason they used all-grip was that it was much easier and quicker than GellCoat.
> 
> If you have a way of doing Gellcoat that would be a better job than all-grip and easier too I would love to hear about it.


Awlgrip IS difficult especially from the preparation standpoint. With gelcoat you are patching with the same material. It should be sprayed .020" thick. One thing good about doing the whole boat is that you don't have to exactly match the former gelcoat in color. A car painter will tell you that white is one of the harder colors to match. I found this out for myself. You DO have to long board the finish as a mold is smoother than a spray job. The Hoby came out looking much better than before.


----------



## Architeuthis

While I'm sure the advice here was correct I think it would have been better to suggest he make an offer of $500 to tow it away and then start fixing it up with that $500. 

Everybody should have a project boat in their past. I know mine lead to buying the one I have. I would not appreciate this boat if I did not own a project boat before. 

Some of us have to learn the hard way.


----------



## CaptDaveWPF

*REstoration Problems*

From a practical point of view restoring any boat costs more than you budget for. If you really know what you are doing I'd be surprised if you can finish the job for less than twice what you think it will cost when you start.

Up to a point, boats are cheap. If you have cash and patience then at some point you are going to be standing next to a boat that will meet your needs and you will be able to make a deal.

If you just want to be able to say "Look what obstacles I overcame to make this boat safe and pretty" then who can disagree? But if you just want to go sailing it might be more enjoyable to start higher up the boat food chain.


----------



## miatapaul

RichardReynolds said:


> I have not seen crazing like that being caused by stress. Actually, respraying gel coat is not that difficult or hard. I saw it done in a garage on a hoby cat and it turned out great. In my mind the only question in my mind would be the integrity of the hull inside the gelcoat.


You are comparing spraying a tiny little Hobie to spraying a 27 foot full keel? Come on that is like saying I sprayed a model car so I can spray an SUV. :laugher Not that I would respray a Hobie with gelcoat, hell a bit of house paint and I would be good, it will only be int he water for a few hours at a time. This would be hundreds, no likely thousands of hours sanding to get it smooth. You can't just spray on top of crazing. Unfortunately this boat is ready for a chainsaw. Shame yes, but you gotta be realistic. I am sure if you showed up with a hydraulic lift trailer the guy would let you have it for free and say thank you. He likely has had estimates for disposal, and that is why it is still in the yard.


----------



## Garffin

I would wait. You can get a boat really cheap and sail it the same day. Yeah you might have to work on it later but you will still be able to sail on it. It's tough to wait for that deal I know. I got my boat really cheap and while I still wonder if I should spend the money on it in order to get it in really good shape I am able to sail the boat as is and I still do. There is a cost benefit analysis that you have to do. The price of a boat verses the time/money to fix it to a good sailing condition. I would wait. I didn't wait and while I ended up with a somewhat decent boat for the money there are a lot, I mean a lot of boats that are well sad to say but they should just be put to rest. It's a buyer's market right now and will be for awhile. I would save up 3-5k and get yourself a good sailable project boat. But no matter what you do make sure you like doing it or no matter what it's not worth anything. Dan


----------



## tomwatt

I just paid a visit to this boat... thanks for folks pointing me to this thread... as I posted in the other thread, this boat actually looks quite a bit worse in person than it does in the photos. There are serious indents in the hull from the stands... the owner indicated it has sat on the trailer for at least 10 years... it's in difficult shape, to say the least. Pulpit is bent somewhat to one side. Wiring is hopeless.
Trailer is rusty, but appears functional (without concerning myself with inspecting the trailer... tires are flat now... ) however it would require a bit of maintenance to get it rolling.
The hull/keel join area shows some stress cracks on the starboard inside (cabin sole area, running from forward cabin towards midships).
I suggested to the owner that he might be better off parting it out... several anchors are there, sails of various condition - but in the pile was what looked like a brand new sail, and the interior mahogany could be cleaned up and repurposed. Ever the dreamer, I hate to suggest a boat is beyond help, but this one may be there.


----------



## daydreamer92

While a lot of people lamented this thread, I'm pretty happy it is here since I just came across the ad myself. My husband's reaction was pretty much what most people's here was ("ew!") and I wasn't overly excited myself, but it did spur me into investigation mode.

So to the fellow who lamented "threads like these", this one really did serve a valuable purpose. It was long, but informational. Investigation on this boat led to a lot of other threads and forums and blogs (like Tim's often mentioned blog) that have been very educational and thought provoking.

Thanks to all who took the time to post about this particular boat (even if the thanks is a half year late!) and especially to the fellow who just recently posted that he'd seen it in person. You (and this thread) saved us a trip to take a look at it.


----------



## tomwatt

You're welcome. One other thing about the boat (for the record) that was nagging at me, that I have a difficult time describing. There is a vertical split/separation along the rear area along the keel. This includes some of the area around the drive shaft. I didn't probe, but it appears to have been an area of potential problems as well. I don't know enough about the construction of this particular model to say for sure, but it looked as if I were looking at unprimed wood (with only a coat of ablative over it) in and around that area. Sealed the deal for me.


----------



## Ed1

Go ahead and buy it, so long as you intend to finish it. strip it, buy a compressor clean and clean sand and sand gelcoats not an issue use a heavy build primer,it will fill the crazing, sand some more and spray, lots of work there though, that 27 feet will start to look like 100 in no time,you will never get your money back out of it, but you'll Know your boat! more than you can say for most of the experts on this forum that particular boat will get you where you want to go ! but it wont be cheep


----------



## tomwatt

I see the guy has relisted it on CL, same ad, same spiel, so I'm guessing he knows what he's got and is just looking for someone to take the bait. The centerline split along the keel at stern looked like a concern to me.


----------



## theartmkr

Ditto: Don't walk, RUN away from this. GO find a nice older boat that just needs a few things that can be done in a few months, and I think you will be much happier......unless you are one of (us) the obsessed that gets far more pleasure from restoring a boat then sailing. Even then, it will always cost you 2-3 times more $ then you figure on paper, and double or triple the amount of time you think it will take you. I know from whence I speak.....
rebuilding sailboat - home


----------



## mitiempo

Even for those obsessed with restoring boats this Vega looks too far gone. You have to have something that doesn't need a total rebuild to start with other than just a pretty shape!
I looked at your blog - you do nice work. Nice look and the cabin sole looks very cool.


----------



## oldironnut

I too have looked at free or almost free boats. If you like to work on old boats I say go for it. That being said, I think a professional survey would the best and cheapest part of a restoration. A few observations that I have made: there are better products than bleach for getting rid of mold. Mostly what you get when using bleach is faded out mold-it's still there. There's a wealth of info on the net about this. I have also priced engines. Used can be anybody's guess as to price and reliability. New outboards for a boat this size:from several hundred to over $3000. New diesel engines 10 to 15hp. anywhere from $5000 up.(plus installation) From my point of view it looks like a big job(time and money). I was looking at a 27' Erickson that I could get for $1500 or less. The inboard engine was no good, but had an outboard. The hull didn't leak. The rigging needed some serious updating-probably ok for light air only. The sails were old but usable. It was in a slip that was about $180 a month-no trailor. Overall it was a usable boat that needed a lot of work. ------Or I could put $1500 down and make $180 payments a month on a new boat and go sailing tomorrow. And don't forget what the old farmer said, "Ya can't shine a cowpie."


----------



## claudius2u

Oh Boy! What a steal! Trouble is, whoever takes that "thing" is the victim!

One use would be to use it for a plan to build a like craft; carefully take it apart, measuring every item, and drafting a set of plans, but, hey, why not spend $200 and go get the plans for a similar vessel? Making plans from that old stink-pot would take ten years, on the low side!

HeHe!


----------



## mitiempo

I've often thought that if you could find a boat you liked with a good hull adding a deck in wood/epoxy would be an interesting project. It would end soft deck problems if done properly and if careful minor modifications to the original deck plan would be possible - smaller cockpit being one possible change. The problem is the aforementioned Vega doesn't even have a good hull.


----------



## bljones

We need to kill this thread. It's like a siren for boatdreamers, and it's gonna lure some poor deluded fool onto the rocks.

If it's too far gone to tempt me, it is too far gone for any sane man. Let's all move along.


----------



## tomwatt

Poor Odysseus, lashed to the mast. We fear for your soul lest the Sirens take it.

Other than that, how did all you sailors like the music?

And it's not "nearly free" - I see a number of other boats in better condition available for less costs and less hassle (this one is located in the back lot of a wooded hillside with a narrow winding driveway running downhill. I wouldn't go after it with less than a Ford F-350 with good brakes. Oh yes, and the vehicle is likely to come away with "cowboy pinstripes".


----------

