# Full Batten or Partial Batten Main?



## BlowinSouth (Nov 10, 2007)

I knew this once upon a time but I can't remember what battens do. And what's the advantages of full vs. partial?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Major advantages of full batten mains are:
 Greater sail area, since a fully battened main can have a greater roach
 Can often use slightly lighter cloth than would otherwise be possible due to having the battens-this is basically a wash most of the time since you have the additional weight of the battens
 Less flogging, since the battens help prevent the sail from flogging
 Easier flaking of the mainsail due to the battens, especially if used with lazyjacks
 Better sail shape in light air
 Better off the wind boat speed
 Less noisy
Some disadvantages of full batten mains are:

Slightly higher maintenance, since the batten pockets are often an area that requires repair
Slightly higher cost to buy than battenless sails


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hello,

It's also harder to hoist a full batten main because the battens add weight and there is additional friction at point where the batten presses against the mast.

Barry


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## retclt (Nov 7, 2006)

Bat cars make a full batten sail slide up and down effortlessly. I got to sail offshore on a 39 Beneteau a couple of weeks ago that had them. They're great! Let loose the main halyard and the mainsail just falls to the boom. It went up just as easily. I wanted to go full batten with my boat until I priced the bat cars and related stuff that goes with it. I'm too cheap so it's partial for me . . . for now . . . but some day. They do sail much better . . . in my opinion but then I'm also a long time windsurfer.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

My new-to-me boat has a fully battened main with Harken batcars, it's great. The batcars take away the friction that Barry L speaks of and one of my ladies can easily hoist the sail to the top using a winch only to tension the luff.

But another difficulty that's a little irritable is if you have a stakpak or even just lazy jacks, the ends of the battens catch on the cords when hoisting. One has to be fully into the wind with the sail streaming directly aft for a succesful first-time hoist.

But as SD said, it allows or a bigger roach and comes down into the stakpak real easy

Cheers
Andre


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Of course, if you retract the lazyjacks, raising the main is really simple...the re-deploy the lazyjacks as soon as you're done raising the main.


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

Batcars also require a little more maintenance. Require a good wash down to get the salt out of the bearings. They have been known to freeze up if not done every once in awhile. If long range cruising I hear that can be a problem if water is in tight supply.


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## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

On the question of full battens verses partial battens - the partial ones don't require batten cars, so less cost. The partial ones only flatten the roach, which helps the form, but not to the extent of full battens. Partial is cheaper than full but the sail gets less support so looses shape quicker.


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## BlowinSouth (Nov 10, 2007)

Thanks all, Great info!


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## Gene T (May 23, 2006)

You can also go with something like 2 + 2, or 2 full battens up high with a larger roach and 2 or 3 partial battens lower. This combination is a good compromise for a lot of sailors and is popular with the cruising crowd. Less weight, lower cost and maintenance with almost as much performance.


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## nightowle (Aug 2, 2006)

*2+ 2 method?*

GeneT:
Does this method of design require bat cars or would I be able to use my regular slides? I'm planning on a new main for my 27 footer.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

*Sails for Newports*



nightowle said:


> GeneT:
> Does this method of design require bat cars or would I be able to use my regular slides? I'm planning on a new main for my 27 footer.


Hello,

In 2006 I had a new main made for my Newport 28. The sailmaker I used (the UK Halsey loft in NY) recommended something they called a 'power head' main. It has a full length batten and three longer battens.

I was very happy with the sail and it was easy to raise. The main halyard was led aft and it was simple for me to raise the main from the cockpit. I could haul it most of the way up and used the winch to tension the halyard.

My new boat, an O'day 35, came with a full batten main, and regular slugs (no battcar or anything like that). The main halyard is also led aft. I can't easily raise the main from the cockpit, it takes too much effort. Instead, I have to go forward so I can jump the mainsail 90% of the way up and use a winch at the mast to tension the main.

Good luck,
Barry


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Nightowle-

You can use regular slides on a mainsail with partial and full battens. I have a sail that is setup that way. That said, full batten cars would make the sail easier to hoist and drop.


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## Gene T (May 23, 2006)

nightowle said:


> GeneT:
> Does this method of design require bat cars or would I be able to use my regular slides? I'm planning on a new main for my 27 footer.


As Barry mentioned you don't need bat-cars, they just make the job easier. They are quite expensive. Strong Track is a plastic track replacement that works almost as well and is much cheaper. You won't need either on a 30 foot and I looked at a 40 foot racing boat the other day that had the conventional system and is sailed quite a bit.

One way of making the job easier is to just increase the purchase by adding a block on the head of the sail and run the new longer halyard back up to the top of the mast. Easy to raise without a winch for a small cost.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

GeneT's suggestion is a good one, since it doubles the leverage, but it requires a really long main halyard.


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## nightowle (Aug 2, 2006)

good ideas here..........thanks.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Bat Cars also perform one other exceptionally import duty on full batten. Right at the luff of the sail a full batten, because it is longer then the sail it is supporting, is going to want to pinch over to the lee side of the mast. this in itself is not so dreadful, but the wear and tear this causes is. i have Bat Cars on my full battens, and i really cannot find a compelling reason (other then price.. which is kinda compelling) not to have them on a full batten main.


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## I33 (Mar 5, 2007)

*Bat Car Picture?*

What do bat cars look like? I tried to find them in the Sailnet store without success. Can someone post a link to a picture?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Harken Battcar looks like:


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

here is the Rutgerson BattCar..

http://www.rutgerson.se/default.asp?id=10&ShowProduct=224&childto=2


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## RandyonR3 (Oct 2, 2005)

Back to the origional post, the difference between full battons and partial is that full battons hold the sail shape better in light winds with the ability to "load" or compress the battons to create the sails shape..
Once the wind picks up, the use of them isnt as great..
Note that if you are racing "one design" and the class sails dont have full battons, you will be eliminated..Racing PHRF, you can be hit with a penilty if protested. (full battons are an unfair advantage in light air)
Trimming and tunning the sails is not as easy with the full battons IF they have been "Loaded" . as trying to flatten the sail, Bending the mast wont take the load off the batton..
For cruising, its a NO,NO because it gives another place for the sails to chafe, especially if your running down wind, as your battons are rubbing against the rigging.
Speaking from experance


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Actually, a lot of the cruisers I know use full-batten mains, since they're easier to handle in many ways.


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## Northeaster (Jan 13, 2007)

2 questions:
What size of boat (increased sail area) does it become more necessary to use Batt cars, if you decide on a full - batten main?

Do the batt cars fit in the normal in-mast track, or are we talking adding a new sail track, etc?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BattCars aren't ever necessary... they're just very nice to have... but they do require adding a sailtrack to use them, so are generally a bit expensive.


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## RandyonR3 (Oct 2, 2005)

I agree that alot of cruisers use full batton mains, I myself have a full batton main (FIRST 42) as I know the advantage of them, but I also carry a stock "Blown Out" sail for running down wind...
I should have said, that many cruisers do not use full battons as it creates unwanted chafe on the sail where the battons ride against the shrouds... Baggywinkles or carpet wraped around the shrouds will stop most of the chafe but its easier just not to have the battons.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailingdog said:


> BattCars aren't ever necessary... they're just very nice to have... but they do require adding a sailtrack to use them, so are generally a bit expensive.


My BattCars have slugs and ride in my internal sail track.. so depending on the style you get may or may not need to install sailtrack..


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Actually, I believe BattCar is a Harken trademark...and all of Harken's BattCars do require a mast track. Other batten car systems may not.


rrgane said:


> My BattCars have slugs and ride in my internal sail track.. so depending on the style you get may or may not need to install sailtrack..


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## MidLandOne (Sep 9, 2007)

nightowle said:


> GeneT:
> Does this method of design require bat cars or would I be able to use my regular slides? I'm planning on a new main for my 27 footer.


As others have said, they are not important in normal small boat situations.

We have a 40 foot cruising sloop with full length battens and no cars. At the luff end of each batten is an ordinary plastic slotted batten end protector with an ordinary flat metal slide taped to it through the slot (the rest of the slides are plastic), the slides running in a normal in mast track being part of the mast extrusion.

I can easily hoist that sail almost all the way up by hand except for the last couple of feet when one would be about to put the halyard on the winch in any event.

When lowering it doesn't just collapse when the halyard is released as when the slides run down and the sail "zig zags" the slides twist slightly in the track at the batten ends, but only takes a light pull to bring it down. I suspect that is an advantage when reefing as is not possible to accidently end up with the whole sail down if one loses control of the halyard (we reef at the mast).

Also haven't any problem with the sail folding towards the mast at the luff end of the batten when sailing as mentioned by another - the normal batten end protectors prevent that.

In our case we have a powerful vang and aft lowers so when the boom is trimmed so doesn't hit the lowers the sail does not chafe much on the rest of the shrouds/spreaders even when sailing well off the wind and can be easily trimmed so no there is no chafe at all. On the upper batten pockets where any chafing would be worse if it does touch the shrouds the sailmaker sewed tape on the outside of the pocket at the potential chafe points.

You have to remember tho' that if the sail is habitually trimmed so that it does foul deeply on the shrouds then the upper battens will wrap over the shroud and maybe risk a broken batten and at the contact point with the battens there will be heavy chafe.

The rig was designed this way for us by the rigger and sailmaker together as being a suitable solution on a custom built boat built for independant cruising.


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