# Beneteau Oceanis vs First



## sjcdwright (Dec 27, 2011)

Size for size which is the better boat in terms of strength and build for cruising?
Looking to get a 40 approx to go do the Fl - Carribean - Venezuela - Belize -Mexico circuit with 2 people ..


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Oceanis model is made for cruising, first is made for speed. 

Really dude, the Bendytoy site talks that out pretty clearly.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

We have friends (a couple in their 60s) cruising Grenada to Antigua each winter on their B First 36.7. They live simply and don't miss/need the amenities offered in the Oceanus series. They sail fast, mostly heavily reefed, and often a bit wet in the trades between islands. They have a blast, but are definitely in the minority looking at the typical boats cruising the region. The 36.7 has stood the test for the last 8 years without any issues.

There will be more comfort in the Oceanus.. less performance too.. so it's up to the priorities....


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## sjcdwright (Dec 27, 2011)

@Chuckles, Thanks for that info. I was sort of aware of that aspect but it is not clear if there any fundamental strength differences in the boats. Apart from the better cruising accommodations of the Oceanis series, is one more "bendy" than the other?


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

The short reply is that there is little difference in build quality between the Firsts and other, more cruising oriented, boats. That said, because the Firsts are intended for racing, at least a part of the time, they may be somewhat more heavily constructed for a given size range as they are expected to endure more rigorous demands--and they do. As for differences in "amenities", the lines are comparable but the First do have somewhat less beam, and accordingly storage, as they are more performance oriented. A race crew will easily carry on in conditions that might have a cruising crew heaving too, hence the racing yacht will be subjected to greater demands. That said, for a crew of two, the Firsts really have all the amenities a couple could want, at least in my view. For a perspective on cruising a First, have a look at Sailing with Ocean Angel, our close friends and neighbors cruising a sister ship to ours.

FWIW...


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## sjcdwright (Dec 27, 2011)

svHyLyte
Thats very useful information , thanks, it will expand my search range considerably.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Also check out Andy and Liz Copeland's books and site.. they circumnavigated on a late 80s First 38.. and are still cruising her here in BC today.

About Cruising - Liza / Andy Copeland & Bagheera


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

My impression is that the Firsts are not just much faster but better built. But I have no experience with the Oceanis, just the Firsts.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Faster said:


> We have friends (a couple in their 60s) cruising Grenada to Antigua each winter on their B First 36.7. They live simply and don't miss/need the amenities offered in the Oceanus series. They sail fast, mostly heavily reefed, and often a bit wet in the trades between islands. They have a blast, but are definitely in the minority looking at the typical boats cruising the region. The 36.7 has stood the test for the last 8 years without any issues.
> 
> There will be more comfort in the Oceanus.. less performance too.. so it's up to the priorities....


Hi Faster There are a couple with a First 40.7 that sailed extensively including the Antartic seas and love their boat.

I would say that the First is a better sail boat in a sense that sails better, is more stiff and probably more seaworthy.

It is obvious that the Oceanis offer more amenities for cruising, with more space, more tankage and so on.

If it is up to you to decide.

I would say that if you can cruise comfortably on a First and it offers you enough space for living...well, it sails better, is more stiff and has a bigger AVS and overall stability than an Oceanis. You have to define your priorities.

Regards

Paulo


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

CBinRI said:


> My impression is that the Firsts are not just much faster but better built. But I have no experience with the Oceanis, just the Firsts.


I don't think the biggest difference is the building quality but the different design criteria and most of all the sailing hardware (winches size, fittings and deck equipment) that is of remarkably better quality on a First.

That is what makes a First substantially more expensive than a same sized Oceanis, never mind the bigger and brighter interior of the Oceanis, that probably cost more to produce.

However if we are talking about the First 40, the current model I would say that the boat has a "small" detail that makes it unsuitable for cruising: I am talking about the ridiculous space of the chain locker.

Contrary to the previous model, the 40.7, the First 40 is not popular among cruisers due to that handicap but while you wait for them to sort it out (it has taken already a long time) you have boats with the same sailing criteria that make very good cruisers like the Dufour 40, the Salona 41, the Dehler 41, just to mention some.

Regards

Paulo


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## MSN2Travelers (Sep 12, 2006)

sjcdwright said:


> Size for size which is the better boat in terms of strength and build for cruising?
> Looking to get a 40 approx to go do the Fl - Carribean - Venezuela - Belize -Mexico circuit with 2 people ..


Isn't a matter of strength & build. It a matter of speed & comfort.

The hull, deck layout and cockpit design of the First series supports racing with below deck comforts at a minimum. The Oceanis series is designed for cruisers that may occasionally race.

Hard to find a good place to mount the Bimini, Dodger & BBQ grill on a First Series.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

MSN2Travelers said:


> Isn't a matter of strength & build. It a matter of speed & comfort.
> 
> The hull, deck layout and cockpit design of the First series supports racing with below deck comforts at a minimum. The Oceanis series is designed for cruisers that may occasionally race.
> 
> Hard to find a good place to mount the Bimini, Dodger & BBQ grill on a First Series.


I dont' agree with your description:

*"The hull, deck layout and cockpit design of the First series supports racing with below deck comforts at a minimum. The Oceanis series is designed for cruisers that may occasionally race."*

I will post the interiors of the "old" First 40.7 and the current First 40. These are not *"below deck comforts at a minimum",* at least not for me:



















I would describe the First as a performance cruiser that can ocasssionaly make club races and the Oceanis as a mainstream cruiser and certainly not a boat designed to race even at club racing levell.

the First is not a race boat and if you want to race the boat seriously you have to command a "special" First and not the one they sell as standard that is named CR (cruising).

Sure, the Oceanis has more space, a bigger freezer, more tankage but then the First would not need a so big diesel tank because it will sail in conditions were a Oceanis will have to motor.

Regarding comfort, the Oceanis will be more comfortable on anchor or in a Marina but the First will be more comfortable sailing with an easier sea motion, especially upwind.

Regarding the bimini, these kind of boats (performance cruisers) can use a bimini while sailing, a small one that will only protect the back of the boat, not the big one that the boats that have the traveler over the cabin can have, but then the type of sailors that sail performance cruisers will want to see the sail shape when they sail and that is impossible with a big bimini.

Anyway, if you want you can ask them to put the traveler over the cabin and then you can have a big bimini. It will not make not much sense on this type of boat and with the cruisers they are designed to, but that would not be a problem for Beneteau. About the Dodger I don't see what you mean. The First has a Dodger and not a especially small one on the option list.

Regards

Paulo


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

We have an older First--1986. Some details on the boat are given commencing on page 34 at Southwinds. We do not consider cruising on HyLyte "roughing it".

FWIW...


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

svHyLyte said:


> We have an older First--1986. Some details on the boat are given commencing on page 34 at Southwinds. We do not consider cruising on HyLyte "roughing it".
> 
> FWIW...


I think there's been a shift in the 'First' focus in the last few years over what was produced in the 80s.. The older boats were racier designs with better deck gear but otherwise fit and finish was standard Beneteau - hulls were not as shallow and light as the current crop so the cruising aspects didn't suffer.

Now I think there's a considerable difference in the Oceanus vs 'Firsts' in hull shapes and weights, leading to a 'racier' First, or more contrast between the two, if you will...

But still, I don't think any 'First' series boat would qualify as a 'stripped out racer'. They are certainly 'cruisable' but you're not going to load 2 months worth of groceries and keep them frozen on a First....


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

svHyLyte said:


> We have an older First--1986. Some details on the boat are given commencing on page 34 at Southwinds. We do not consider cruising on HyLyte "roughing it".
> 
> FWIW...


I have raced on a First 42 and it is one of my favorites. Well built, seakindly, fast, nice lines. A boat that you would be comfortable crossing an ocean on. In fact, I was unsuccessfully looking for one when I found my (different) boat.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Faster said:


> I think there's been a shift in the 'First' focus in the last few years over what was produced in the 80s.. The older boats were racier designs with better deck gear but otherwise fit and finish was standard Beneteau - hulls were not as shallow and light as the current crop so the cruising aspects didn't suffer.
> 
> Now I think there's a considerable difference in the Oceanus vs 'Firsts' in hull shapes and weights, leading to a 'racier' First, or more contrast between the two, if you will...
> 
> ......


Hi! There is certainly a difference in hull shape but not a very significant one in weight: For the Oceanis 41 they give 8450kg, for the First 40 cr 7900kg. Considering that the Oceanis is not only longer but a lot beamier that is not a big difference.

I would say that the bigger difference has to do with B/D ratio (much bigger on the First) and with the bow entries and the forward part of the boat that is much slicker on the First. Of course the Oceanis is also a lot beamier has almost all beam brought back but that has not to do with being a cruiser or a performance cruiser but with design criteria and what performance they want to privilege. For example the Pogo or the Opium have that kind of beam and transom (as well as fine entries) and are performance cruisers while other pure medium weight cruisers have the First ballance design criteria, I mean a more traditional ballance without a big beam all brought to the transom.

In the past there was not this divergence between the line of First and Oceanis and the balance in what regards performances and design criteria was much more even between the two lines, being off course the First more slicker and powerful (more D/B ratio).

Now I would say that regarding design criteria the Oceanis privilege much more downwind sailing (and sailing with a smal angle of heel) while the First privilege more upwind sailing and sailing in rough seas. That makes a lot of sense because most cruisers motor when they have to go dead upwind and stay in Port when the weather is rough.

Regards

Paulo


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## RandyonR3 (Oct 2, 2005)

We also own a 80s First 42.. moved aboard it almost 10 years ago and have cruised the West Coast from Alaska to Mexico.. leaving in the spring for Hawaii and the Marshalls.. we're both 60 and handle the boat fine..
She is fast, the boat, not my wife, and love the way she handles the rough stuff, again, the boat..
for cruising, the water tanks are slacking but we cured that issue with a watermaker.. 
In the last ten years of having R3, we've never seen another boat that we would rather have.. we feel we made the right choice..


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