# Would you ever rent your boat as a liveaboard?



## JeffBurright (Apr 22, 2009)

Hi all,
I'm contemplating moving down to Portland for a while and leaving my sailboat (which I currently live aboard) at its slip in Seattle until summer and potentially beyond. I'm also toying with the idea of renting it out as a liveaboard while I'm away to defray slip costs, but I thought I'd ask around to see if anyone has done it and what the experience was like. Specifically, I'm curious about the following:

-- What kind of arrangement did/would you make with the renter regarding maintenance if needed?

-- What was the agreement if the renter damaged the boat? What about damage to their property due to fire/sinking/etc.?

-- Would you let them take the boat out sailing if they had sufficient experience? What about if you wanted to take the boat out for a day or weekend, is that a faux pas?

-- What other 'rules of the house' did/would you establish for someone living on your boat?

-- Any other pitfalls to consider?

-- Horror stories (if true) are welcome.

Thanks,
Jeff


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

This goes pretty much the way of "would you charter your boat" a thread you might want to check out as well.

For me it would come down to what my feelings are for the boat...If its my pride and joy then no..but if your pretty detaached from it emotionally and its 'just a boat" that can be replaced by another if need be then the short answer is yes.

I will leave all the other stuf to the other thread for you to read.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

JeffBurright said:


> Hi all,
> -- Would you let them take the boat out sailing if they had sufficient experience? What about if you wanted to take the boat out for a day or weekend, is that a faux pas?


Not exactly the same thing but my friend has a boat he lives on during the summer. When he goes on vacation the boat is mine. I take it out day-sailing. Of course I fuss over the boat a lot more than he does so he doesn't worry. And of course I'm the one that is usually sailing with him when he is here.

This is such an individual arrangement I depends on the people involved.

One trick you could borrow from the charter people is to hold a deposit equal to the deductible of the insurance.


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

davidpm said:


> One trick you could borrow from the charter people is to hold a deposit equal to the deductible of the insurance.


I'm pretty sure that (come time to make a claim) you'll be uninsured due to violating your policy if you rent out your boat. You may say that its hard to prove, but insurance agencies are getting pretty picky about cutting $100k+ checks lately :hothead


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## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

I did it. I ended up with 6 dead and unchargeable golf cart batteries ("Generator was too loud"), a missing solar panel (storm), a missing 12' aluminum skiff with a good outboard, and several hundred dollars not paid. He says that he moved off of the boat and forgot to tell me, so he doesn't owe me, the solar panel shouldn't have blown off, and that the guy he lent my skiff to knew me but he can't remember his name. Tom maybe. I never saw it again.
It's been a long time and I'm still pissed.
By this time, if I still had the boat, the solar panel would be inefficient at best, the outboard dead and the batteries would have been replaced at least once again and I'm still pissed.
at least I sold the boat for what I had in it.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

Insurance is a scam, and it corrupts the legal system, and is a waste of law enforcement dollars that could be better spent than sending patrol cars out to document petty damage and theft. I hate insurance companies. They are leeches.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Yes you will more then likely have to start a charter co to be able to rent out your boat legally as far as liability and ins coverage..it could still work with the right people..

Its being done both successful and unsuccessfully as we speak I will guarantee you that.

Insurance is a good thing...scamming on it on each other and involving Lawyers is whats caused the problem with about everything you can point at in society. Insurance is a piece of paper...a contract..it cant screw anyone ..its the deceit and lies we put on them or break them with that do the screwing and hurt people.

If you were in my shoes you would be glad I had it.


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## JeffBurright (Apr 22, 2009)

Well I'm only in for 15K plus a whole lot of sweat equity since she's an older gal, but I do love her. I was thinking more about the risks of a clueless renter, but now you've got me worried about a shifty one too. The insurance point is a good one too - I couldn't remember how that would roll out legally if I'm not on hand when damage occurs. 

I may put out feelers on craigslist anyway and see what breed of folks respond, and take it or leave it from there. I'd prefer to believe that there are other responsible, good-natured dreamers out there. Thanks for the advice.

If the insurance company asks, we never had this conversation.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

In this economy the %s are high it will not be a good deal for you. Listen to the person who lost his dink.......*i2f*


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I probably would not do it in your situation just because you are going to be gone, it would be different if you could drive by and check on the boat from time to time. If it were a house you'd have the same problem, you would need someone local who could check in on it, or a property manager. If you have a close friend you can really count on who is willing to handle it for you then maybe. No renter is going to love the boat like you do.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

wind_magic

But houses don't sink. I would only do this with someone I know really well and trust.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

I would not just take any short cuts..Ask your insurance FIRST!...you may not be covered for liability to other peoples boats nor the marina with a rented out boat either...this could haunt you big time..not to mention leaving your fellow tenants at risk.

Although I would consider this myself I would not be advertising on Craig's list about it..I would be looking for a marina yard worker or past boat owner/live aboard to rent to..Some one who needs no education as to things boat ..just an education to the idiosyncrasy's of your particular one is all.

Also I would not allow the boat to leave the dock...It would be a condo on the water only..so pump out service would need to be available at the marina and part of the rental agreement...as would having pre arranged hull cleanings and zinc checks/replacements with a local diver if needed.

I would in my case also install one of those bilge alarms that call you if its submerged...and possibly look into a land based security service like ADT or Brinks to see if they can install a simple monitored version of their water, fire and theft alert systems like I have at home. Possibly a grand up front but you will sleep better far away I will guarantee you that..we sure do.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

I wouldn't even consider letting someone live on my boat. 

If I planned on being gone for a long time, I'd either sell it, or take it out of the water and cover it.

This would be nothing but a Big headache for you IMO.


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## lexy993 (Dec 31, 2009)

*rental*

Hi Jeff,

Lesley here. I might just be your renter. Lived in Seattle at uw and on QA hill from 1971 to 2005. Rock solid references. Member of SSYC for 5 years. 63 yo tidy female. own a condo at 2111 Westlake Ave North 9 currently rented. I would like to return to Seattle from bozeman MT July to October and liveaboard. Not interested in sailing your boat. Maybe we can make this work. Where is you boat and the LOA?

Lesley


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## leland515 (Sep 26, 2009)

lexy993 said:


> Hi Jeff,
> 
> Lesley here. I might just be your renter. Lived in Seattle at uw and on QA hill from 1971 to 2005. Rock solid references. Member of SSYC for 5 years. 63 yo tidy female. own a condo at 2111 Westlake Ave North 9 currently rented. I would like to return to Seattle from bozeman MT July to October and liveaboard. Not interested in sailing your boat. Maybe we can make this work. Where is you boat and the LOA?
> 
> Lesley


This post is full of awesome. I love Sailnet.


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## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

lexy993 said:


> Hi Jeff,
> 
> Lesley here. I might just be your renter. Lived in Seattle at uw and on QA hill from 1971 to 2005. Rock solid references. Member of SSYC for 5 years. 63 yo tidy female. own a condo at 2111 Westlake Ave North 9 currently rented. I would like to return to Seattle from bozeman MT July to October and liveaboard. Not interested in sailing your boat. Maybe we can make this work. Where is you boat and the LOA?
> 
> Lesley


If I had rented my boat to you, I believe everything would have been OK.
Good luck to you both.


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## JeffBurright (Apr 22, 2009)

Hi Lesley,
Glad to make your acquaintance. The current plan is to bring the boat down in the spring/summer, but there's a chance I won't go that route. If I expect it to still be around, I'll get in touch with you later this and we'll see if we can work something out. The only difficulty of course is that July-October is prime sailing season . . .
Take care,
Jeff


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## flatracker (Aug 16, 2009)

*I would only consider*

I would only consider this if it was someone I knew really well. Someone who I knew had the where with all to repair damages they might incur. And probably with the agreement that they did start the engine with some regularity, that they did not take the boat out of the slip, and they knew how to check and tie dock lines. Then I would only consider it. Don't know if I would ever to it or not.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Jeff, you might only "be into it" for $15k but that's not all you could lose.

Suppose your boat manages to sink in a channel. Marina channel, harbor channel, wherever, someplace it can't be. And some fuel and oil start to bubble up and out.

The USCG, the EPA, the local marine patrol, will all stop by. You may get charged $50k or more, for oil spill containment, cleanup and remediation, and salvage removal to get the hulk out of the channel. If you're real lucky, 100k.

And that bill may endure, even through bankruptcy, with 10% of all your income being set aside for the next 20 years, after all your assets have been seized.

Are you in for $15k? Or perhaps, for $65k?

But it gets better. Let's suppose your renter manages to have a breakout with an irate lover and someone gets personal and manages to get hurt or killed in the fireworks. The ex'es gangster-in-law comes by and sets the wrong boat on fire, next door to yours. The lawsuit is for five million, because the folks on the next boat got killed in the fire.

Guess who they are going to go after? YOU.

Better to keep it on the books, have commercial liability insurance in effect, or just keep clear of unknown "but they look so nice" deals. Unless you are very lucky, in which case you're better off rolling dice at a casino craps table anyway.

Just one man's opinion.


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## JeffBurright (Apr 22, 2009)

All right, all right, I asked for horror stories and you lot managed to scare me out of it. Thanks 

--Especially that photo mitiempo. That's the nightmare vision I see in my head every time I come home from a trip. I even try to spot my mast from the plane when I'm on approach.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Jeff
I wasn't trying to scare you into not renting. Just make sure your insurance agent knows about it and you have liability coverage. That picture is a bit sobering though.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Dang..Thats it... Im going to sell my boat...I dont even trust myself now...

Boogie men in the closet.....

Just have insurance that covers it ( like renters insurance when renting out a house) and go for it with a gal like the one who responded already you will be fine and so will your boat.

Just one mans opinion.

Edit: If I was renting your boat it would be in better shape then it started in...Polished, cleaned, and what ever else you alowed me to tinker with...find someone like me and you would almost feel guilty charging me rent.


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## lexy993 (Dec 31, 2009)

*boat rental*



JeffBurright said:


> Hi Lesley,
> Glad to make your acquaintance. The current plan is to bring the boat down in the spring/summer, but there's a chance I won't go that route. If I expect it to still be around, I'll get in touch with you later this and we'll see if we can work something out. The only difficulty of course is that July-October is prime sailing season . . .
> Take care,
> Jeff


Jeff, 
I just found your reply. Please keep in touch.
Lesley


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## nadiller (Jan 30, 2010)

wow!!
hellosailor you sound very paranoid. Do sleep at night clutching your shotgun thinking of all the horors in the world that could happen to you. 
I am a responsible home owner who wants to buy a boat to liveaboard, but would first like to rent to see if I like it, before I commit to a boat mortgage. There are resposible people out there who are very respectfull of other peoples property and know how to take care of stuff. You just need to find someone who appears honorable. We don't all leave a wake of destruction behind us. There is an entire economy of home rentals that has opperated succefully for centuries. Mishapps represent only a fraction of the trasactions. Best of luck finding a renter if you haven't been scared out of it!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"You just need to find someone who appears honorable. "
Ahuh. And while most people are, how is the average boater going to know how to check the credentials of whoever comes looking to rent? We know that someone coming looking to "rent a liveaboard" is NOT an average or experienced sailor or liveaboard, so right away, we know they are not familiar with the usual norms afloat and that alone may make them a risk. Most folks don't have the skills or knowledge to run a background check, or to ask the renter to take out their own insurance and liability polcies, so we're not on the hook if they mess up.
A home renter may punch out the walls, but a boat renter is like someone renting out a car for prom night. If they get drunk and wipe out a family down the street...Guess who may have to ante up five mil in damages?

Sure, most folks are honorable. But the ones wearing the neatest suits and shiniest shoes, are often Scott Rothstein. Ain't worth the risk unless you know the business well enough to be IN the business.

Paranoid? You know what they call a liberal after he's been mugged? A Republican. I don't sleep with a shotgun, but I do make real damned sure to lock my doors both day and night. Folks called me paranoid for that too, long ago. Then the town PD made repeated speeches on the TV Nooze telling folks to please please lock their doors after a long wave of daylight robberies.

Paranoid? No, just sadly experienced. By all means, you rent out your boat a couple of time, and let us all know how it works out five years down the line.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd also point out that renting a boat to a liveaboard may be considered chartering the boat, and as such, would require a commercial insurance policy and a USCG captain's license IIRC. 

Renting a house is not like renting a boat to someone, as the person renting the house can't generally take the house and run away with it. A boat is mobile, and as such has a lot more risks to it than does a permanent structure like a home. Not only can it be far more easily stolen, it can sink, it can go aground, it can capsize, it can injure people, it can damage the environment. 

Most people who will want to "rent a liveaboard" or "boatsit" are not qualified to maintain the boat or even deal with small problems, that can easily turn into large ones. Forgetting to close a seacock or turn the flush/dry valve on the head to the right position or shut off the propane solenoid can all lead to issues that could easily cause the loss of the boat and in the case of propane—the loss of human life.


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