# Tiki 36, Wharram design catamaran



## nemier (Jul 9, 2005)

Has anyone seen this new build design by BOATSMITH out of Florida?

If any vessel can push me over to a Catamaran, this is it.
Traveling out to Nigeria in a few hours, but will pick up internet access once there, I'd appreciate your views now though.

I love the concept of this vessel. 
32' waterline --- 28" draft --- 4500 lbs displacement --- 650 sq. ft sail area = Hello! 
comments please.

These numbers add up, why are there not more of them out there?


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

_Why are there not more of them out there? _

Because Wharrams are usually a pain in the butt to sail, most are very crudely built (I understand that Boatsmith does a nice job) , and do not sail worth a darn? Why else?


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## nemier (Jul 9, 2005)

Why else indeed?
It's all about the sailing for me.
Never been on a cat of this size but I did like the numbers on paper - don't you?


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## AKscooter (Jan 18, 2009)

okay, i'll bite Jeff. Could you actually explain the deficiencies of the sailing characteristics vs other comparable ocean going cats. Any boat, home or professional built can be crude. So please spell it out for those of us that are interested in learning about different platforms. Otherwise, as with my personal vehicle my motto is: *Absolutely Nothing Beats A Hummer*.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Jeff_H said:


> _Why are there not more of them out there? _
> 
> Because Warrams are usually a pain in the butt to sail, most a very crudely built (I understand that Boatsmith does a nice job) , and do not sail worth a darn? Why else?


oh sure....but apart from that they are perfect.....:laugher

Earlier this year we were anchored next to a Wharram on the south coast of NSW. Really quite remarkable things but hardly mainstream. I kind of liken them to those old VW Kombis with the 6v electricals and split windscreens. Legendary , no doubt, but you'd have to be out of your tree to want one.

Nemier my friend, if you really have your heart set on a Wharram......you'll need to grow your hair, get some cut off denims, some tie dyed indian shirts, sandals, head bands and some decent weed.

Peace.


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## nemier (Jul 9, 2005)

Jesus H.....TDW,
I wish someone would have told me!
The Kombis went 5 months ago to my daughter's boyfriend, my hair went in 1999 (after the Brazil 1200' dive), my denims went last year because I'm too fat, but the tie dye shirts, sandals, head-bands and weed stay with me!

Now, listen-up you lot! I see a vessel with some interesting numbers. This Wharram is built by a professional. Not the back yard project you're thinking about. Look at the displacement vs the waterline length vs sail area...

this thing could move and I want to know why not- in your opinion- anyone out there - who isn't stoned...


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Nemier,

Do you have a link to the Tiki 36 ? I can't find the site.


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## danjarch (Jun 18, 2007)

Thomas Forth Jones had some good things to say about Wharram's designs. And he should know he built a couple of them as well as sailed them for years. In my opinion, and I'll start by saying that I've always like Wharrem's designs but it's best strengths is it's biggest weaknesses. 

It's biggest strengths are that the designs are both simple to build and sail while still getting high marks for stability and strength offshore. Unfortunantly even when built by professional builders they still look homemade-ish. They're also not the most accomadating boats in the comfortable interiors. Add in that the vast majority of sailors are never going offshore and they don't have a good resale. 

Most people want more space so opt for a catamaran that has a built up bridge deck. So unless your really planning to keep the boat on an anchorage most of the time when your not sailing to exotic locales then your going to pay a high price to keep a boat on a slip that's not overly comfortable for weekend cruising or parties.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Here's the Boatsmith link 
Wharram Catamarans

And here's Wharram's site James Wharram Designs -Home of the self-build Catamaran.


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## gtod25 (Aug 5, 2000)

*I went onboard the Boatsmith Tiki 30....*

at the Miami Boat Show two years ago. Absolutely gorgeous piece of work. I have no connection with the builder but if I could afford him and his crew they would be working on my boat. As for the Wharram designs, I have no direct experience sailing them so I will leave comment on that to others.


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## pedcab (Dec 4, 2008)

Sometimes the arrogance of some of this forum's members really makes my day happier and puts a smile on my face. :laugher 

Sure, Wharram cats, Piver tris and the likes of it are nothing but rubish. I wonder why so many crossed so many oceans so many times. Often faster and safer than their professionally built counterparts...

But I do understand the owners of plastic-fantastic latest generation multi thousand $ boats, after all sailing, let alone cruising, shouldn't be allowed to the masses and those who are anything short of milionairs should be all sailing nothing bigger than toppers and laser dinghies...


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## nemier (Jul 9, 2005)

Wharram Tiki 36 - here's my thinking.

PRO's: Professionally built, fast, light, easy to single hand, lot's of deck space (where I will spend most of my time), minimalist equipment, separate hulls for eating and sleeping, and did I say fast?

CON's: Admiral will divorce me  , marina expense & difficulty,,,umm, that's about it.

For what it's worth, my monohull of choice so far is the RM1060...
(always looking though, every day)


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

pedcab said:


> Sometimes the arrogance of some of this forum's members really makes my day happier and puts a smile on my face. :laugher
> 
> Sure, Wharram cats, Piver tris and the likes of it are nothing but rubish. I wonder why so many crossed so many oceans so many times. Often faster and safer than their professionally built counterparts...
> 
> But I do understand the owners of plastic-fantastic latest generation multi thousand $ boats, after all sailing, let alone cruising, shouldn't be allowed to the masses and those who are anything short of milionairs should be all sailing nothing bigger than toppers and laser dinghies...


Pedro,
Not so much arrogance as a bit of mischief making.  As an owner of a twenty year old steel tank that needs a small gale to get her moving I am throwing stones at my own glasshouse, as in people who live in them shoudn't.

Nemier,
Yessiree bob to the RM1050. A VDS34 for the noughties.


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

TDW and why are you not at the boat show?????


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

SimonV said:


> TDW and why are you not at the boat show?????


Simon,
Had to move the Womboat to her new home today. Going to try and avoid the weekend crowds, heading off to the show on Monday.
You're not in town are you ?
Cheers
Andrew


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## RJSD (Aug 20, 2010)

Jeff, I'm kind of new around here and don't know much about you and your vast sailing experience on all types of sailboats. Did you base your opinion on how Wharrams sail on personal experience sailing a Wharram, or by rumor? How did you come to the conclusion that they don't sail? I personally sailed Boatsmith's Tiki 30 from Miami to Jupiter last year, and we were constantly surfing up to 17 knots. Then we beat up the channel and it pointed ok, with a ballanced helm. After a Worrell 1000, sailing my cruising cat thousands of miles, a Tornado Olympic trials and several other world championships, I base my opinion on catamaran experience. How bout you?


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## pedcab (Dec 4, 2008)

RJSD said:


> Jeff, I'm kind of new around here and don't know much about you and your vast sailing experience on all types of sailboats. Did you base your opinion on how Wharrams sail on personal experience sailing a Wharram, or by rumor? How did you come to the conclusion that they don't sail? I personally sailed Boatsmith's Tiki 30 from Miami to Jupiter last year, and we were constantly surfing up to 17 knots. Then we beat up the channel and it pointed ok, with a ballanced helm. After a Worrell 1000, sailing my cruising cat thousands of miles, a Tornado Olympic trials and several other world championships, I base my opinion on catamaran experience. How bout you?


 Smooth


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Back in the 1970's and early 1980's there were a number of the Wharrams (and Pivers for that matter) around and passing through <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com







Savannah</st1:City></ST1 where I lived. I was fascinated by these boats at the time and did everything that I could to get aboard them any chance that I could. 

Since someone mentioned Pivers, the Pivers were actually a revelation in that era, especially compared the keel boat designs that I had been sailing. The smaller versions were fast and nimble, the bigger Pivers, not so much. They seemed to have clever layouts that made surprisingly comfortable interiors for the small volumes that they were dealing with. 

I was so impressed with Pivers, and with trimarrans in generalm that I bought a small glass trimarran, and later designed and helped build a small plywood tri that was loosely based on the Tremelino but adapted for multichine plywood construction. Of course, a huge amount of development has occurred in the design of trimarrans and monohulls, and so while Pivers were great for their day, there are far superior designs out there today. 

By comparison, my experience with the Wharrams was that they offered very poor performance to weather, making large amounts of leeway, could not point close to the wind, did not offer enough speed through the water when cracked off to make up for the lost VMG, were not able to tack reliably in close quarters, and were nearly impossible to tack in light air, and in any wind generally requiring a tacking technique where you turned up into the wind until the boat began moving backwards, kicked over the helm, and then only when turned past a close reach, could the boat be made to move forward on the other tack. 

The one boat that I sailed in Hilton Head was reasonably nicely finished and the owner seemed to know her well, but we could not beat out of the river in what should have been near perfect conditions. That was similar to my experience with a smaller Wharram. My sense back then was that the Wharrams were quite fast compared to the boats of that era on a broad reach in moderately high winds, but quite slow on all other points of sail. 

I also base my comments on seeing these boats under sail over the years and being able to get a sense of their relative speed as compared to other boats sailing on those days. Of course, in fairness, while I can generally observe sail trim and sail condition, I have no way of knowing how knowledgeable the owner was about how to sail their boat. I found that these boats did seem to respond to comparatively fine adjustments, which sometimes required jury- rigging ways of improving sail shape and so that particular owner my not have been finessing sail trim at all. 

At least on the Wharrams that I had experience with, the connection of the Akas to the vakas were a little fragile and problematic over time. In fairness, I understand these have been improved in more recent Wharrams, which these are supposed to move as a part of the design concept, and that arguably you are exchanging a long term maintenance item for a simpler cheaper connection. 

I know that experienced Wharram sailors have sailed these boats all over the place. I admire their seamanship, and their luck. But at least based on my experiences, these boats do not provide the kind of broad spectrum well rounded sailing ability that I (or most sailors) would want in a boat that was being taking offshore, or used for coastal cruising. (and are no where near as much fun as the A class cats which I have sailed.)

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## nickpapa (Sep 1, 2009)

*Wharram cats*

I also saw the Tiki 30 built by boatsmith - great job, but expensive at ~$100K.
The main problem with these boats is the lack of interior volume that contributes to the light displacement. The sail OK, but not as fast as newer designs and not as close winded either.
Cheers,


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## Boatsmith (May 3, 2009)

Thanks for the nice comments.
I used to have fin keel racer cruisers. ( J24, Santana 525, Santana35, Ross 930) I started racing in SoCal when there would be 6-8 sleds out for a LBYC wet Wednesday. I was a little concerned about building a Wharram for myself as I really like to sail and sailing fast is more fun. I saw my first Wharram about 30 years ago at the isthmus in Catalina after racing over on a 60' custom ultralight. I went ,wow, that's cool and they ridiculed me. None of them had ever sailed one and probably haven't to this day. 
I have really been pleased with the sailing performance of our Tiki 30. The mini keels keep windward performance acceptable and the reaching and running has be exhilarating. Blasting along in the low teens in less than 3' of gin clear water is totally cool fun. If I try to pinch it up the speed will drop off quickly and the leeway will increase. 
We have several thousand miles on our Tiki 30 over the last 2 years and have truly been very favorably impressed. 
I am James Wharram Designs US builder. We have built several of his boats now. I don't agree with all of his ideas but really like a lot of them. 
The Tiki 30 is one of Wharram's best sailing designs. He does refer to it as a backpacking boat. It also is a 30' sailboat that has a cockpit that seats 10 easily. It also is a very comfortable seagoing boat that will fit onto a trailer or into a container and be transported anywhere in the world cheaply. 
The Tiki 36 is the result of having sailed the Tiki 30 and having showed it at several major boat shows and trying to fill a need. We have stretched the boat for more waterline, raised the sheer for more bridge deck clearance and more internal volume, increased the beam for more stability with more sail area and given her a modern full batten big roach main. 
This is in no way intended to be a condomaran. If you just want a cottage at the marina look elsewhere. This is a boat that takes the great fun of a beach catamaran and provides a larger platform for cruising and having fun at a very reasonable price. I would be happy to provide anybody with more information on this or any of our boats. We are custom boatbuilders and will build almost any boat for almost anybody.


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## Boatsmith (May 3, 2009)

Expensive compared to what???


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## nickpapa (Sep 1, 2009)

Hi Boatsmith, are you showing the 36 at the Annapolis show next month?
I would like to see it!
Cheers
Nick


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## ffiill (Jul 15, 2010)

Back in the late 60s as a teenager with ambitions(never realised) to sail the Alantic it was the 28 foot Wharram Tane that appealed both to my "flower power" sentiments ; my pocket and its design and construction concept
Never owned one but occasionally see them about and get tempted.
Would love one of the small day sailer ones particularly when getting my 33 foot ketch out for a day sail!.
Certainly time spent last year in NZ where I saw several in their true environment of the south Pacific rekindled the facination of my youth!
Wharram himself always argued that there was a philosophy involved in his cats-either you like them or loath them.


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## nickpapa (Sep 1, 2009)

Hi Boatsmith,
Expensive compared to the Wharrams on sale. At the time I was looking at a recent vintage Pahi 32 for $60k.


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## Boatsmith (May 3, 2009)

Wharram himself boarded our Tiki 30 for the first time and remarked to Hanneke, We need more boats built like this. We are frequently asked at boat shows if this is a Wharram knockoff or people will say you know this reminds me of a Wharram. I have not seen a Wharram finished as nicely as ours. Onne van der Wal saw our boat in Miami 2years ago and arranged to use it in The Exumas for a couple of weeks for a vacation with his boys. He can pretty much trade photos for the use of a boat with any builder, he liked ours. What other new 30' catamaran can you buy for 100k? Sure we cost more than most other Wharrams, we should dagnabit. There are many used Wwharrams floating around for 10-30k but not ones you are going to be proud to show off to your friends.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd point out that many of the earlier Wharrams were home-built and as such often had flaws due to the deficiencies in their construction rather than their design. I've sailed on a few of the Wharrams and agree that they're not as weatherly as some other designs, and Wharram's designs tend to be less rigid than other catamaran designs, and as such can have problems related to the lack of rigidity. 

I do not have any experience with the Boatsmith built Tiki 36s. But, I would point out that the open bridgedeck design tends to leave anyone helming the boat for any period of time in bad weather, relatively exposed and uncomfortable.


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## Boatsmith (May 3, 2009)

Many early Wharrams are very flexible vessels. This is in part due to design and also to lack of building and rigging finesse and lack of maintenance. Wharram's newer designs are lashed together. This technique applied with diligence and modern ropes will yield a much more rigid structure. Part of Wharram's design philosophy is that a minute amount of flexibility in the beam to hull connection serves to absorb the intense shock loading inherent at these connections. Indeed if you look at a boat with aluminum cross tubes it is very common to see stress cracks and repairs.
The open bridge deck boat certainly does leave a helmsman exposed, which over time in inclement weather can be both uncomfortable and dangerous. Much like many small monohulls.
On the Tiki 36 we addressed this issue by adding a windscreen and roll down curtain/windows for the helm station.


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## islandman2 (Feb 23, 2002)

Say what you will about Wharram catamarans, but show me another multihull design with the proven seaworthiness of his Tiki range. Nothing comes close to the number of ocean passages successfully completed in these simple boats. Even the Tiki 21, which James Wharram never intended as an offshore voyager, has circumnavigated. And the same boat, again sailed by Rory McDougall, just completed a double trans-Atlantic this summer, the first leg over as part of the Jester Challenge, and return to England just for the hell of it and to take the boat back home. 

Needless to say, the larger Tikis are simply as seaworthy or more so than the Tiki 21. Many Tiki 26's have crossed the Atlantic, as have Tiki 30's and of course the larger Tiki 38, Tiki 46 and so on. These passages were not stunts, nor were they completed because of "luck." People who build and sail these designs tend to be out there living the voyaging life and going wherever they please, rather than debating the merits of boat design on Internet forums. 

I have sailed the Boatsmith Tiki 30, including a delivery trip to Nassau last summer. David has raised the bar on these designs without a doubt, showing what's possible when a great design is built to exacting standards by professionals using state orf the art materials and technologies. Sure there are some ratty home-built Wharrams out there. Many people who build these boats have no idea what they're getting into and lack the skill and the funds to build them to a high standard. Yet, the designs are so forgiving they still manage to build them and often sail them far. 

As for the overall appeal of the designs, as Wharram himself said, you either love them or hate them. I happen to love them because I know what they can do and I think they look really cool anchored in a tropical lagoon or pulled up on the beach somewhere.


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## grmitche (Apr 5, 2008)

We had our first family cruise this summer on our Contour 34 - and while it was great - the appeal of something like the rigid deck of the wharram would have been even better. I've not sailed one - and am a bit concerned about the possibility of pitching given the pinched ends, so I lean a bit more towards Richard Woods' designs. 

Assuming the next couple of years are as successful as this years cruise, I'd expect that we'd be looking for something like this boat in 2-3 years time. I think a boat like this one would be ideal.


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## Boatsmith (May 3, 2009)

C'mon down and go for a sail grmitche


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## grmitche (Apr 5, 2008)

If I get to florida - I'll look you up for sure. Might happen around year-end.


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## wongai64 (Mar 27, 2012)

Many thanks to Boatsmith and Jeff H for their inspiringly articulated replies in this thread. I am in the process of looking for a boat to buy which i intend to spend many years on with my young family and learn to sail it to its apex.
I have spent many years on the water, mostly coastal cruising in power boats. The romantic ideal of sailing now has me firmly by the hip pocket and i am wanting to buy a multihull. I have looked at Searunners, Cross's and Piver because Tri's in Australia are the affordable multihull option. Im not interested in plastic 
(unless someone wants to buy me a dragonfly or farrier) So when Wharrram's came into focus, my interest in Cat's resurfaced as a possible option. Much has been said about performance and perception of such but it is only the two aforementioned contributors who have given a would be/potential Wharram owner a balanced and objective view of their capabilities. I agree with you on your point of experience and sail trimming contributing to better overall performance, seamanship in navigating more windward points. Quality of build must also contribute to performance. then..If all else fails... a reliable motor to windward or anchor/beach up till the wind changes. Isn't cruising about enjoying time passing slowly?
Boatsmith, in your professional opinion.. how close to the wind will your Tiki 36 sail? Is it possible to put a pilothouse on them with dry access to the hulls?My partner loves the idea of a cat which doesnt require accessing the other hull via the elements and a lounging area for shady mohito afternoons.
Also thanks to someone ( cant remember who) for the comparison to an old Kombi.. I have always wanted one to modernise with newer technology whilst keeping the great Kombi "look".


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

I was on a 43' Wharram once that later crossed the pond. It pulled right up onto the beach at my beach cat club. 

I was not impressed. It had very very little space for a 43' boat. The decks are not laid out in a way that makes the best use of all the space, there is no real bridgedeck, and the space in the hulls is very very small for such a large boat. Having a family in this boat would be tight, and I imagine a tiki 36 would be even smaller. 

They are seaworthy boats, but supposedly the flare of the deep V gives some discomfort and possible control issues in a seaway.


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## Boatsmith (May 3, 2009)

The way that things worked out we have not built a Tiki 36, yet. We were commissioned to build a 47' Ariki. This is an earlier design of Wharrams that we( with Wharrams help and approval streched a bit and tweaked a bit and are building in foam cored glass. We have actually sold two of these boats now. We have built molds for all of the peices except for the beams at this point. We are having some engineering done before we build these molds. We are very excited about this vessel. The first boat will be delivered as a bare boat to be completed by the owner. The second boat will be at the Miami show in February. Here is a recent photo and a rendering. There is still no bridge deck saloon and it is still a shallow draft lightweight speedster. We can build this boat with mini-keels,or daggerboards or even centerboards. It will be a very comfortable boat for a cruising couple with occasional guests. It will not have three heads and four staterooms. It will also demount and ship in two 48' containers. We also are fans of Richard Woods designs. We are just now putting the bracing structure on the hull mold for the 32' Eclipse. This boat can be built as tube boat or with a bridge deck cabin. Peace, David
















My freind Kevin Hutchinson is the artist. He measured the hull and house, and then drafted the hull and then painted it.


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## Boatsmith (May 3, 2009)

A youtube of our progress.


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## Boatsmith (May 3, 2009)




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