# double handed racing



## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

Last year I did a few double handed races on my new-to-me boat. They were a lot of fun and I plan on doing the double handed series this year. 

I have completed two races and the results have not been great. The double handed fleet allows spinnakers and there is only one class. i don't have a spinnaker, so that is a big handicap. The wind for the first two races was on the light side (5-10 kts). I did fine upwind, and on the short downwind leg. I got killed by the spin boats on the longer downwind leg. 

This year I bought a whisker pole and I'm still learning how to use it. Some questions:
-Is it better to sail wing and wing directly downwind to the mark or am I better off sailing at 120,130,140,? degrees off the wind and jibing downwind?
-With just two people onboard, there is a lot of work to get done when rounding the lower mark: whisker pole down, genoa car adjusted, genoa sheet in, main halyard tensioned, outhaul tensioned, backstay on, main sheet in, traveler set, etc. Any suggestions on when to start that stuff and the order of operations? 

For the first two races we lost a lot of time getting all that done. My crew is my 17 year old daughter or 14 year old son, and we are having fun, but we need to get better at the mark roundings. 

I have been using the raceqs app to record the data and two other boats in the fleet are doing the same so I can really see where I'm losing time. 

I am mostly concerned with having fun and not the results, but I do want to get better.

I normally race fully crewed where everyone has a job to do and that is MUCH easier (besides gathering the crew part).

Thanks,
Barry


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Barry,

The only way to really tell you how long it takes is for you to go out and practice the maneuvers a lot. The more you practice the faster it gets, the longer you can keep the boat up to full speed. 

As far as order of operation... Pole off, main halyard on, car back, sheet in hard(while driver turns the boat). All the lines should be marked to rough trim place. Then once the gross tune is done quickly you can go back and fine tune them all. 

As for down wind angles. Every boat is different. Spend a few hours sailing ddw at different angles and a GPS. And measure the vmg to the leeward mark. The higher the wind speed the deeper you can go.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

on a displacement boat with a genoa going downwind will alway be faster wing and wing. the angles you would need to keep a genoa full gibing downwind will be about the same speed but a lot further distance. the spinnaker allows you to keep the sails full at any downwind angle so you can drive direct to the mark with more sail area.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

I can't help you with the sail changes because this is just my second year racing and I am still not flying a spinnaker. Maybe you can have a chat with the race organizers about possibly setting up a DH non-spin division. They might be amenable to it, especially if you know of some others who would race non-spin and can convince them to sign up. You can suggest to the race committee that this would be a way for boats to enter who might not otherwise because they don't want to blast around a leeward mark in short quarters and short on crew while dealing with a big sail. That's a lot to handle in a buoy race.

I hope your kids are having a blast because that'll also set the tone on what they can expect when they race. You'll definitely notice that everyone is getting better the more you practice. And then it is beyond sublime when you hit the start perfectly, make the best decisions on course strategy, round each mark smartly and finish first. Savor that when it happens...as soon as you get over the shock of hearing the gun


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## weinie (Jun 21, 2008)

Wing on wing definitely depends...

If you have a small jib and/or swept back spreaders, you are going to project less sail area. Might be better off sailing hotter angles and gybing.

Personally, I am starting to hate poling out wing on wing in non-spin wed. night battles.


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## jann (May 22, 2010)

Your mileage may vary but ... 

Generally wing on wing is the most efficient at 180 deg to the wind, but then you spend a lot of effort trying not to gybe the main accidently.

Often it is easier to sail at 170 or so, and then gybe half way along the leg, in your own time and without pressure. That way you can make sure that when you get to the next mark you only have to to take down the pole and harden up, rather than a less-fun take down the pole, gybe, and harden up. If you are clever and plan well you can also perhaps be on starboard tack when you get to the lower mark, and all the other boats on port have to give way. 

You can also adjust the pole side genoa car with the pole still up.

So your mark rounding looks like:

1. crew adjusts the pole side genoa car and drops and secures the pole
1.5 round the mark
2. crew sheets in the genoa and you sheet in the main
3. crew adjusts the remaining genoa car


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

I'll make the argument, cause I can... Get the spin, take the dive, turn those kids of yours into bonafide bowmen. You can thank me later.

Kids like pretty colors and when they get a bit older, they'll like the surfing downwind too (and yes I realize double handed with crew being a kid, is kind of crazy to use a symmetrical spinnaker... so teach the kids to drive and YOU do it!).

SHNOOL - who sometimes tortures himself with solo spinnaker launches in short windward leeward races. Thank God for tiller pilots (yes our races allow that).


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

BarryL-

"VMG is King".

In order to determine which is faster (WoW or sailing hotter angles), you need to know your VMG. 
Most ordinary hand-held GPS units will calculate this for you. My Garmin 76Cx does this.
Try sailing off the wind, then try DDW with your whisker pole and see which is faster. This should be done on a practice day, not during an actual race.

Still, your boat (and mine) aren't "downwind wonders". It's their worst point of sail.
Hopefully, you make up time on the upwind legs and outpoint everyone else.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

hi Guys,

Thanks for the information.

I will do more practicing with the pole. We've done it twice, and getting better. I will try to do some more, and I will try WoW vs a hotter angle while checking VMG to the mark. I guess that will also depends on the wind speed. For the first race the wind was mostly steady at 8-10 kts. That race we sailed DDW and did OK. My buddy (who I race with on Thursday night and has a C&C 35 with a PHRF of 124) was behind me all night but put up a spin and then sailed right past me. So I thought sailing a hotter angle might be a better idea. Then this past race the wind was lighter and puffier, more like 3-8 kts. Trying to sail DDW in under 5 kts just didn't work, even with the sails WoW the headsail (at 135%) just hung limply. By heating it up to 120-130 degrees I was able to get the boat to move, but not in the right direction. Again two spin boats just sailed right past me on the last downwind run. Since the wind was light the race was shortened to end at that downwind mark so the race ended and I was a little depressed. 

I guess that ultimately, I can't expect to compete with spin boats in light wind. I will just have to accept that. Perhaps in a year or two I'll be ready for a spinnaker. Some of the C&C 110's have a retractable bow sprit and fly an assym off that. My boat doesn't have the sprit, so no spin for now. I wonder how hard it would be rig my line adjustable whisker pole as a retractable bow sprit? That might be an interesting idea.


Barry


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Barry,

I'm speaking as the accidental founder of our shorthand sailing society down here on the Chesapeake.

You simply cannot fairly handicap spin vs. non-spin. Our members voted that down. They decided that they'd rather split into a spin and non-spin division with singles and doubles competing against each other in those divisions.

Yes, there's an argument to be made that that's not fair either and we don't even bother adjusting ratings for doubles competing against singles. The members have simply accepted it.
We've learned that just because a guy has a partner doesn't mean that they work well as a team or that either of them really know what they're doing. Plenty of our singles have beat the doubles in races.


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## sandy stone (Jan 14, 2014)

How big is your genoa and how long is your whisker pole? A guy in our club sails a Chance 30-30, an old IOR design with a huge foretriangle, and he has a whisker pole a good bit longer than his "J" dimension (not all clubs allow this). He poles out his 150 genoa on the opposite side of the main, but sails the boat at a slight angle to the wind so that attached airflow goes backwards from the genoa leech horizontally to the luff. It sounds crazy, but he terrorizes the rest of the nonspin boats and makes the spin boats nervous.
Be careful using your whisker pole as a sprit pole for an asymmetric spin, few are designed to take the side loading you would get in that application.


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## Mal Reynolds (Oct 21, 2013)

Hi Barry,

Google ¨C&C110 polars" to find your boatś theoretical speeds and optimum downwind angles.

The polars asssume flat water and a PHRF configuration, meaning spinnakers, empty water tanks, spotless faired bottom, folding prop...

Skip the whisker pole & get a real pole and spinnaker. Don t screw around with wing and wing. You will never be competitive & won t have fun. Go out & practice to get familiar with handling it. Take someone with you with spin experience if needed.

With experience, you start to sail by the seat of your pants downwind to keep the boat moving. Up a little in a lull, down a little in a puff, etc.

Singlehanders can be as competitive as doublehanders, if the distances are short so the singlehander doesn t need to sleep, and there is a good autopilot on the singlehanderś boat.


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