# Place to buy solid wood tillers



## miggidy (Aug 15, 2008)

The tiller on my Columbia 22' busted the other day after 30+ years good service.

I've been looking around to find replacement tillers, but they all seem to be mahogany/ash laminates.

Is there any particular reason for this, and does anyone know where to buy solid wood tillers?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

How about just buy a block of wood and make your own? I did this on a buddys boat after he fell on his old tiller and broke it in half. I took the old one, put it back together as best as i could and laid it out on a peice of 2x8, traced it out and used a jig saw to cut it out. Did some sanding and painted it. Hes been happy with it for 2 years now.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The reason most tillers are laminated is that they are generally stronger than plain wood tillers, and often considered better looking.


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## wbrakman (Aug 15, 2008)

I've never done this my self, but I've seen two guys that I know use wheel barrow handles from the hardware store. They say that the handles are really cheap. One guy even refinished the handle/tiller prior to installing it. It looks good, but I have no idea how strong it will prove to be. 

Hank


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

miggidy said:


> The tiller on my Columbia 22' busted the other day after 30+ years good service.


The PO had to replace the (laminated) tiller on our boat. (He gave us the old one, too.)



miggidy said:


> I've been looking around to find replacement tillers, but they all seem to be mahogany/ash laminates.
> 
> Is there any particular reason for this, and does anyone know where to buy solid wood tillers?


Yes: A properly made laminate is far stronger than a single piece of wood and is more dimensionally stable.

Btw: If you want to keep your tiller in good shape, make a nice tiller cover for it out of something water- and sun-repellent, such as Sunbrella, and keep it covered when the boat's in her slip. The Admiral made ours out of left-over Sunbrella fabric she bought to make our winch covers and to replace the blue fabric on our lifeline cushions with matching red.

Jim


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

SVDistantStar said:


> How about just buy a block of wood and make your own? I did this on a buddys boat after he fell on his old tiller and broke it in half.


Couldn't have been much of a tiller if it broke in half just falling on it. I don't think I could break our tiller if I _jumped_ on it--even the old one that's already cracked.



SVDistantStar said:


> I took the old one, put it back together as best as i could and laid it out on a peice of 2x8,...


Plain old SPF?!?!  No offense intended: But that stuff isn't all that strong, laterally--esp. "sideways" to the grain. I would not trust such a construct on our boat. Maybe your buddy's boat is a lot smaller than our 30' Pearson?

Jim


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## SteveCox (Jul 12, 2006)

*Solid wood vs Laminated*

A laminated tiller is not "far stronger" than solid wood in and of itself. There are a lot of factors to be considered. One of the main reasons that most tillers are laminated is because of shape. If you were to draw the shape of your tiller on a piece of paper with a bunch of parallel lines (to simiulate the grain of a piece of wood) you would probably find that at some point your tiller is curved and will cross the lines at a point where the grain becomes very short. That is your weak point. Laminating a tiller allows the the grain to follow along the curve and be strong for the entire length. The folks who used wheelbarrow handles don't have a bad idea. The wood used is straight grained and also straight so that there is good strength everywhere. If your shape allows the grain to extend all the way along the tiller solid will be fine. If not, you will need a laminated one. BTW an all Ash tiller will be better than an Ash/Mahogany one as Ash has better bending properties but it doesn't look as good. As far as making one yourself you need to have some knowledge of what you're working with. It can be difficult to make the form to bend the strips so that you have good contact on all joints. Personally I like Weldwood for something like this as it has less creep than epoxy but if your joints are less than perfect epoxy will work also.


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## timebandit (Sep 18, 2002)

You might look into this sight and call. 
They have a nice looking carbon fiber one that might be strong enuff for you.
They also make laminate ones.

Click here: IdaSailor Marine

Rick


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## Saildoggie (Aug 16, 2008)

Minney's in Newport Beach usually has a nice selection of wood tillers, some used, some new, some unfinished.
Good prices too, I'd do a link but allowed, too new here!!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Jim, the boat is a Chrysler 26 and my buddy is well over the 200lb mark. Lets just say it wasnt a normal fall, but more of a late night, wheres my car at kinda fall. 

And as i said, its been 2 years worth of use and its still going strong.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

SteveCox said:


> A laminated tiller is not "far stronger" than solid wood in and of itself. There are a lot of factors to be considered.


Depends on who you talk to. One manufacturer of airplane spars claims their laminated spars are 25% stronger than the same size & weight in straight wood. Others claim there's no difference. In my exceedingly short experiment with wood working, during which I did a _lot_ of studying, I learned that a properly made up, properly glued joint, using modern glues will exceed the strength of the surrounding wood. (Excluding end-grain surfaces, of course.) I also learned that even the most perfect-looking piece of straight-grained wood can have hidden defects (knots, pitch pockets, grain anomalies) that will only be revealed when you try to work the wood (uncovering them), when it unaccountably moves or warps later on, or when it fails under load. Also there is the question of grain orientation vs. load direction. Lamination, properly done, solves all these problems.

Jim


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## retclt (Nov 7, 2006)

Absolutely correct Jim!

Laminates are stronger and more reliable than solid. Keep it varnished and covered and it will out live you. There are also limitless possibilities in design or shapes. If you have access to the proper tools it's a really easy project. If you don’t, there are folks out there on the net . . . and I think in “Good Old Boat” ads that will make one to your specs for a very reasonable price. Just draw them a pattern and send it in.

The store bought ones are limited to the popular (marketable) ones such as replacements for Catalina, Hunter etc. I re-built mine last year (Chrysler 26) because I couldn’t find one that fit my boat. I plan to make my own custom shape this year to better accommodate a tiller pilot.

Go laminated!


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## SteveCox (Jul 12, 2006)

"I learned that a properly made up, properly glued joint, using modern glues will exceed the strength of the surrounding wood." 

Absolutely correct if it is properly made up and properly glued. But what if your glue mix is off? Or, the temperature is outside the range, the joints are not tight enough or conversely depending on the glue, too tight and therefore glue starved? All of these factors are just as devastating as a hidden defect in a piece of solid wood. A piece of solid Sitka Spruce has a lot more flex to it than a laminated piece of the same size because the glue joints are more rigid than the wood itself. Depending on the application that might wind up being more survivable than a "stonger" laminated piece of wood. I did not really question the use of laminated tillers, for many reasons they are usually preferrable but I hate blanket staements like laminated wood is always better than solid. It just isn't necessarily so. BTW I have three years formal training in both boat building and furniture building and currently do most of my work in the latter.


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## retclt (Nov 7, 2006)

Steve,

I just looked back through the thread and couldn’t find the word “always” in it. I’m sure there are applications where solid construction is better in certain situations and laminate in others. I still have a solid ash tiller from my 1960 22 foot ocean racer built in Holland. It’s so hard you’d think it was petrified wood. It is my “opinion” that a laminated tiller is a better choice than a solid one. I think you’re trying to make tiller construction more complicated than it really is. Give me some ash stock, a bottle of Gorilla Glue, and a can of high quality polyurethane spar varnish and I’ll whip out a tiller that’ll last a life time. It’s not rocket science. If you see a wheel barrow handle on a boat please send the picture to the “Sailboat Hall of Shame” thread. 

I don’t have as much to offer to the Forum as many in here . . . but every now and then something pops up I can speak to. I have extensive experience in laminating every species of wood imaginable. I spent almost 30 years as a master carpenter with references of several multi-millionaire clients I can provide . . . offline. I do not have any formal experience as a Shipwright but I have lived on boats and done work on my own. I have recently left the carpentry world for the engineering world. Getting too old to push the old Powermatic around.

My point . . . nobody is making a blanket statement. The Forum is full of opinions. If somebody likes a solid tiller they should get one . . . if they can find one. The original question was where to find one and why laminated ones are the norm today. Answer to question A: Can’t answer that. Answer to question B: Many think laminated tillers look better, are stronger and you can get much better curves and shapes.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

SteveCox said:


> "I learned that a properly made up, properly glued joint, using modern glues will exceed the strength of the surrounding wood."
> 
> Absolutely correct if it is properly made up and properly glued. But what if...


Yes, if the joints are not proper, they probably won't be strong, much less stronger than the surrounding wood. Thus my proviso: _properly made up, properly glued._ Thing is: A skilled craftsman can _see_ whether or not their craftsmanship is right. (Or should be able to.) But no craftsman can see inside a chunk of solid wood. If he or she really knows their wood, saw the wood in its natural element (as part of the tree), and selected well out of that tree, they can _surmise_ certain things about the likely properties inside it. But that's as close as they can come.



SteveCox said:


> ... I hate blanket staements like laminated wood is always better than solid. It just isn't necessarily so.


I did not say "always better." I said "A properly made laminate is far stronger than a single piece of wood and is more dimensionally stable." Certainly there's disagreement about "far stronger." (I've admitted as much.) But such disagreements _assume_ a defect-free piece of solid wood. We're back to the point I made above.



SteveCox said:


> BTW I have three years formal training in both boat building and furniture building and currently do most of my work in the latter.


I have nowhere _near_ the training or experience you do. All my "training" is self-taught from book larnin' and from talking to work-working craftspeople here and there. I certainly have no experience. (Turned out I didn't have the patience for wood-working.) So I bow to your superior training, knowledge and experience.

But I stand by my earlier assertion . However I will qualify it with _it is my understanding_.

Jim


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## okawbow (Feb 15, 2007)

My laminated, ash and mahogany tiller broke at a very bad time, causing a spreader to the water knockdown during a squall. The tiller looked perfect from the outside, but split between glue joints where it was bolted in. I have seen a couple others do the same thing. Water runs into the mounting bracket and gets into the bolt holes, and inside the unfinished wood. Over a period of years, the glue joints can fail from repeated swelling and drying out. I made a new tiller from osage orange wood, with the grain running vertically to the mounted tiller position. It's absolutely beatiful wood when varnished and "aged" a few months. I think you could lift the boat with that tiller. osage orange wood is also extremely rot resistant. I've seen fenceposts made from osage that were still completely solid after being in the ground for 75 years. 

I make my living making laminated wood archery bows. If you are going to make a laminated tiller; be sure you make a perfect form, use proper clamping methods, and spread enough waterproof glue to every clean,mating surface. I cure the laminated bows in an oven for 5 hours to get best results.


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## retclt (Nov 7, 2006)

okawbow said:


> I made a new tiller from osage orange wood, with the grain running vertically to the mounted tiller position. It's absolutely beatiful wood when varnished and "aged" a few months. I think you could lift the boat with that tiller. osage orange wood is also extremely rot resistant. I've seen fenceposts made from osage that were still completely solid after being in the ground for 75 years.


Sorry to hear about that tiller break. I hope that's all that was bad and no serious damage came from it. I doubt a solid tiller would have lasted any longer. I drilled, cleaned and sealed the bolt holes on the inside before re-installing mine. I went with 7 coats of spar varnish on the whole thing and keep it covered when not in use.

Osage orange, great wood . . . and hard as hell. We call it Bodark down here and most folks think of it as a nuisance tree. They are not pretty trees and one tree will cost you several chains. We have Bodark out the wazoo in our area. I had thought about making the new tiller out of ash only but bodark sounds pretty good. Are the laminates run vertically or is it solid with the grain run vertically? I'll probably stick with horizontal laminating due to the tiller extension / Tiller Pilot holes I'll be drilling. Regardless . . . you sold me on Bodark. Glad you stumbled across the thread okawbow!


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## okawbow (Feb 15, 2007)

retclt said:


> Sorry to hear about that tiller break. I hope that's all that was bad and no serious damage came from it. I doubt a solid tiller would have lasted any longer. I drilled, cleaned and sealed the bolt holes on the nside before re-installing mine. I went with 7 coats of spar varnish on the whole thing and keep it covered when not in use.
> 
> Osage orange, great wood . . . and hard as hell. We call it Bodark down here and most folks think of it as a nuisance tree. They are not pretty trees and one tree will cost you several chains. We have Bodark out the wazoo in our area. I had thought about making the new tiller out of ash only but bodark sounds pretty good. Are the laminates run vertically or is it solid with the grain run vertically? I'll probably stick with horizontal laminating due to the tiller extension / Tiller Pilot holes I'll be drilling. Regardless . . . you sold me on Bodark. Glad you stumbled across the thread okawbow!


Other than some scrapes and bruises to my wife and I, from being thrown across the boat; no damage. The old Bristols were made well.....

I used solid osage cut from a 20 year old 2" flat sawn plank. The grain is vertical as viewed from above. if you could find a quarter sawn plank with a curved grain that matches your tiller curve; it would be strongest. I laminate osage all the time for bows. it's best ground in a thickness grinder with 36 grit. It should be wiped with acetone before gluing with Smooth-on epoxy or Urac 185. However, I think good quality solid bodark is stronger than laminated ash and mahogany. Your local sawmill might have 2"osage that they cut for pallets. It's hard to find clear wood, but if the tree was big enough, sometimes you can get it. I've also made grab rails, and winch bases from osage. It cuts best with a bandsaw, and use as coase grit to sand as possible.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

The temptation will be to use epoxy as it is billed as the glue of choice for marine work. There are several problems however.
1. A glue starved joint is very easy to create if you are not experienced and careful.
2. Water penetration due to holes or finish not properly maintained can cause the joint to fail.
3. Excessive temperature can cause the glue line to fail.(not likely for a tiller)

In factory controlled conditions a laminated tiller can be excellent.
Home made it requires some skill and experience. 
It's small make two.

I submit that a major driving factor in laminated everything is cost. It is cheaper to get thin wood and laminate in a factory setting then getting high-quality large dimension clear straight grained solid wood.

The bottom line is that either laminated or solid can be screwed up or good depending on craftsmanship.

It's been 30 years since I've seen Osage orange but I believe you want only the heart wood. It is very pretty though.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/38885-pardey-says-epoxy-should-not-used-structural-glue-wood.html
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http://www.landlpardey.com/Tips/2007/April.html
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## Richman7777 (May 28, 2010)

Okay, some are going to laugh at me for this (my wife did) but I am considering using a baseball bat to make into a tiller handle. I have a Kent Ranger 24' that has a straight tiller handle that is pretty small and feels a little fragile.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

I made a solid wood tiller out of mahogany. I hand-selected the wood, and found a plank with the grain that curved just where I needed it to curve. Using the old tiller as a pattern, I made the new tiller slightly thicker than the laminated one, to increase it's strength. IMHO, with it's added thickness, it was much stronger than the old one, looked beautiful, and had a hefty feel to it. 

Finding the raw mahogany was the hard part. After that, it was a simple winter project.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

A baseball bat for a tiller handle......hmmmm....... I had one made into a coat/hat hanger when I was younger. Loved that thing. Made one later for my sons.........

For that use, why not! Not sure I would want one on say a westsail 32 or equal bigger boat. But a smaller 20 something boat, what the hay. 

Then again, some TP52's re coming out with tillers more than wheels. IIRC one yr had 12 made, 11 were tillers vs one wheel steered! Grant a TP 52 is a 52' sport boat for the races that are being done in the med, not for trans-pac races as originally designed........tillers appear to be metal or composite from pics.............

that is as far as i will comment from a 2 yr old thread being revived! LOL along with my 8' pram I built as a teen had a solid tiller, my stepdads 21' boat he built was also solid intially, until a shop class I had in 9th grade, I made a laminate tiller. My tiller on my 30'r is solid now that I think about it..........a laminate would look better........hmmmmmmm... dang it, another project to worry about.......... shoot the person for bringing the thread back up, or better yet, Hit him with a baseball bat!

Marty


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

SEMIJim said:


> In my exceedingly short experiment with wood working, during which I did a _lot_ of studying, I learned that a properly made up, properly glued joint, using modern glues will exceed the strength of the surrounding wood. (Excluding end-grain surfaces, of course.) I also learned that even the most perfect-looking piece of straight-grained wood can have hidden defects (knots, pitch pockets, grain anomalies) that will only be revealed when you try to work the wood (uncovering them), when it unaccountably moves or warps later on, or when it fails under load. Also there is the question of grain orientation vs. load direction. Lamination, properly done, solves all these problems.Jim


This is the main reason we use Glue Laminated beams in construction. The other being that a camber (arch) can be engineered into them. Spans are achieved with Glu Lams that couldn't even be considered with a regular timber beam. Interestingly, they (wooden beams) are more fire resistant than steel beams. But then...I digress far off topic. If the fire resistance of your tiller becomes an issue, something has gone horribly wrong!


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I don't know if it was mentioned.. but KEEP A SPARE TILLER ON BOARD!!! 
yes I yelled


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## Tazsprout (Nov 3, 2010)

Interesting thread..
I just bought a Holder 17 and the tiller just seems.. I don't know, unconvincing. Its a small boat and of course, has a not very long tiller. 

I suspect I will spring for a laminated tiller at some point. However, I had a long hard look at some axe handles, so I was interested in the wheelbarrow/baseball bat idea. Has anyone actually tried these "alternate" approaches?


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

Tazsprout said:


> Interesting thread..
> I just bought a Holder 17 and the tiller just seems.. I don't know, unconvincing. Its a small boat and of course, has a not very long tiller.
> 
> I suspect I will spring for a laminated tiller at some point. However, I had a long hard look at some axe handles, so I was interested in the wheelbarrow/baseball bat idea. Has anyone actually tried these "alternate" approaches?


"A not very long tiller"?...Oh yeah, we used to call that - short! The Wheelbarrow handle would be more than strong enough, but may be tough to find new. For 17 feet, I would think you could find shovel or post hole digger handles that would work for about ten bucks. You'd probably want to cut a few feet off, then simply mill the end to fit in your hardware.


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## asdf38 (Jul 7, 2010)

I'm a bit torn here. My current tiller is probably original and solid. But after probably many sandings/refinishes, including by me last year I think it's thinned out a bit. Now it bangs around a bit in the slot on the transom hung rudder. Overall it just doesn't instill a feeling of strength that I'd like for such an important item.

On the one hand, I'd love to make the tiller, but that would realistically mean solid.

On the other hand I see that Ruddercraft.com sells a laminated Contessa 26 tiller for $169. That's honestly not bad. And buying it would cross one item off my to-do list.
Contessa 26 Laminated Mahogany and Ash Tiller, Rudder Craft Inc.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT 

It is worth while looking at axe handles as they make good tillers.

36 inch hickory axe handle is $10.79 from Sears.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

When I hear about all the trees down in storms and orchard bulldozed by drought down there in 'merica' ,I think of the wonderful supply of hard woods ,free for the picking. A yew branch has within its bark a hidden tiller (from experience) Lots of other parts are also hidden in similar locations (from experience)


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

miggidy said:


> The tiller on my Columbia 22' busted the other day after 30+ years good service.
> 
> I've been looking around to find replacement tillers, but they all seem to be mahogany/ash laminates.
> 
> Is there any particular reason for this, and does anyone know where to buy solid wood tillers?


try sailors exchange in st augustine FL. They have a TON.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

TQA said:


> ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT
> 
> It is worth while looking at axe handles as they make good tillers.
> 
> 36 inch hickory axe handle is $10.79 from Sears.


Shovel handles work as well. I varnished one and people use it all day without realizing they are steering the boat with a shovel handle. 
I also have a longer one reinforced with fiberglass. I padded the end with one of those foam "pool noodles". I use it when I single hand and steer a lot with my thighs while tending the sails.

A axe handle might look even better, though...nothing looks as good as a laminated tiller.


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## ultraclyde (Jun 4, 2014)

TQA said:


> ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT
> 
> It is worth while looking at axe handles as they make good tillers.
> 
> 36 inch hickory axe handle is $10.79 from Sears.


That's what I'm using on my Vagabond (Holder) 14. Hickory axe handle from Lowe's. Works great although I think I will thin out the tip a little this winter for better ergonomics. Could be a little longer and a little less stout for my little boat, but it works and cost next to nuthin'.

There's pictures of it near the end of the cheap projects thread.


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## Doncs22 (Sep 9, 2013)

Lots of good info here. I just broke my laminated tiller right off at the straps. It rotted because the newbie that installed it failed to bed the screws and didn't cover it like he should have. Another laminate would be nice but I don't want to miss a day on the water,the season is short here so I'm going for the wheel barrow handle while I order the other... Har! Thanks all and fair winds.
Don


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