# San Juan 24



## jcwhite (Apr 7, 2011)

Thoughts?

24 Foot Sailboat - Nanaimo Sailboats For Sale - Kijiji Nanaimo Canada.

I haven't been up to look at it yet, but I'm seriously considering it. I'm looking for an entry-level boat that I can single-hand without too much trouble (I do know how to sail, although I wouldn't go out solo on a blustery day). It'll spend most of its time on a mooring, but I'd like to be able to trailer the boat so I can take it over to the west coast of Vancouver Island without having to sail it around. Big enough that I can sleep on it (space for a friend or two would be nice, but not necessary).

Pros I've heard: affordable, entry-level boat that's perfectly reasonable and gets the job done. Cons I've heard: Built as a racing rule-beater, not an everyday sailboat, some cost-cutting measures during construction, small cockpit. Is that a good model for me to consider, or should I look elsewhere?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

It is an early IOR design, by the famous Bruce Kirby.. and can/does suffer from some of the downwind behaviour issues of boats of that era..

Smallish cockpit, as you noted, but a decent racer/cruiser with reasonable 'camper cruising' accomodations. Quick upwind and a bit squirrely downwind in a breeze, but nothing that can't be managed. Very narrow transom and using the outboard can be quite awkward.. be sure it's a extra long shaft. One big negative for me is an odd molding at the front of the cockpit, you need to step over it going forward on deck.. it's a splash deflector, I believe, but not sure it's necessary...

Not a good trailerable boat, I think it's a 4 foot draft fixed keel so not ideal if that's a major part of your plans. I don't see a trailer in the listing?? and in any event ramp launching deep keel boats can be problematic.


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

It's certainly light enuf to trailer, tho loading and launching won't be too fun unless you have access to a hoist. The SJ24 was one of the racier Clark designs, meant to compete with the J/24 as a price-point OD or club racer. It is nowhere close to the J/24 in speed, however (219 vs 168). Its rig is undersized, it won't hold with the J upwind a'tall, and you hadn't ought to make up time on the downwind leg or you'll be washing your Windex. A few people still race them, and they can do well under PHRF with a good crew.

The boat's most famous quality is its white-knuckle ride under spinnaker. It rolls like a ferry. You'll be glad for the small cockpit when lying on your side. But if your throttle back or sail wing-and-wing, it will behave fine. Many of the Clark boats _feel_ faster than they objectively are -- quick, rather than fast -- which makes them really nice daysailers, if you don't have any particular place to go.

You can singlehand the boat fine. Loads are reasonable and everything can be handled at the coamings or coachroof. (You will love the roller furling.) Build quality was 'meh.' General glass work was about standard, balsa decks on all Clark boats seem to suffer water intrusion. Look for soft spots, maybe use that to negotiate.

Stock deck hardware was not great; bonus points if that's been upgraded to Harken or similar. (From the ad, looks like lots of fresh Schaeffer gear -- that's good.) Sails are cheap for this boat; you should be able to find good used rags all over the PNW. Most parts still available & what isn't can be substituted or fabricated. It's a cheap boat to own & lots of fun to sail, tho I'd want some experience & a beefy helper before taking it out in a blow. Not a boat for the open ocean, but good fun/$ ratio inshore. If it checks out, go for it! (Then take that bloody danforth off the bow pulpit....)


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## minnow1193 (Dec 20, 2011)

If i may hop in, i have been looking at a SJ 24 here in FL. Also looking at a Morgan 24. What would the SJ 24 offer or not offer over the Morgan?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Are we comparing these two?










That's the only Morgan 24/25 I found.. these are two pretty different boats, with SJ is a fin keel, very different underbody.


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## minnow1193 (Dec 20, 2011)

These two. Sorry if links don't work. Don't know how to make them links from my phone. 

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/3520740048.html


http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/3466345739.html


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## jcwhite (Apr 7, 2011)

So .... sounds like I should double check the hardware, the outboard and the deck core if I get a chance to see it, in addition to the usual persnicketiness. I've e-mailed the seller for pics of the interior. It's a bit of hike for me to get to where the boat is, so that's not happening for at least a week or so, assuming it's still around.

I wouldn't be trailering the boat regularly. If I was going to be working on the west side of the island I'd bring it over at the beginning of the season (and bring it back when I come back). Also, if I wasn't going to be out for a few months I would use the trailer as a dry storage. I guess as long as it's doable in an hour or two with a friend then I'd count is "trailerable enough for me." I'm certainly not going to be jumping lakes like some of the folks inland.

I've also found and C&C Mk2 that I'd be curious to get some of your folks' opinions on, but that's an issue for a new thread.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

jcwhite said:


> So .... sounds like I should double check the hardware, the outboard and the deck core if I get a chance to see it, in addition to the usual persnicketiness. I've e-mailed the seller for pics of the interior. It's a bit of hike for me to get to where the boat is, so that's not happening for at least a week or so, assuming it's still around.
> 
> I wouldn't be trailering the boat regularly. If I was going to be working on the west side of the island I'd bring it over at the beginning of the season (and bring it back when I come back). Also, if I wasn't going to be out for a few months I would use the trailer as a dry storage. I guess as long as it's doable in an hour or two with a friend then I'd count is "trailerable enough for me." I'm certainly not going to be jumping lakes like some of the folks inland.
> 
> I've also found and C&C Mk2 that I'd be curious to get some of your folks' opinions on, but that's an issue for a new thread.


You'd have to be very good to put an SJ24 on a trailer in an hour or two. It would take that long to get the rig down if you didn't have a crane.


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## jcwhite (Apr 7, 2011)

Ah, so I might be thinking in the the wrong terms for portability? I'd be renting a trailer for the drive anyway, so I suppose adding a crane isn't going to break the bank more than I'd be doing anyway. I'll have to call some marinas around here to get a feeling for how much that would be.

Apparently the boat does NOT have an outboard with it - that was sold previously. I'm not sure what the market is like over here for used outboards, but I'll figure it out and add that much to the price in my head.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

Good luck finding a trailer to rent that would be suitable! And whether you can launch or load the boat has a lot to do with the ramps available. It may not be possible to find a ramp in your area where a boat like that can be trailer-launched.

I would say that you need to decide whether you are going to keep the boat in one place (a dock, mooring, or anchored), or trailer it around. If the former, then don't plan on moving it around. If the latter, then get a boat that has a trailer and that was designed for ramp launching.

And, by the way, I used to own a San Juan 23, so I'm a fan of these boats. It was a great boat for my use. I actually lived on it for about 4 months at one point, did a lot of weekend and week-long trips around Florida, and once took it across to the Bahamas. But my boat had a shallow draft and centerboard. It had a displacement of about 2,700 lbs. I pulled it with a 4WD, half-ton pickup, with a 351ci V8 engine. Without the V8 and 4WD, I would have to have been a lot choosier about which ramps I used for launching and retrieving.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Launch ramping boats with 4 feet draft is tricky.. you need: a particularly steep ramp, a trailer tongue extension, (often both) or a submersible vehicle 

In BC many of the formerly 'public' docks have hoists, if you can rig the boat for a single point hoist (ie off the keel, not using slings or spreader bars) that's a possibility, but you'd need a pretty low slung trailer for that to work, and inevitably you'd come across a hoist that's not high enough. Something lighter like a Santana 20 or a Martin 242 would be easier to deal with on these smaller hoists. As Denver indicated, rental trailers for this kind of keelboat tow are virtually non-existent - unless you can find an owner looking for a few extra bucks.

I agree that if trailering is going to be a regular thing you need to get a boat set up for it, for ease of launching and ease of rigging. There are plenty of proven trailer-sailer designs out there.. just not so very many in our area because that's not the normal pattern of use around here, like it is in 'lake country'...


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

$4000 for a 40 year old San Juan 24 with no motor seems like it is likely on the high side of the pricing. If the boat has been well maintained then it's a fair price, but if it is like most used sailboats and has been neglected for the last 5 years then it seems like a lot. Maybe prices are lower in Seattle than Victoria though.

In Seattle it just cost me $250 to have my mast unstepped and restepped by crane. Haul out fees also run about the same. Those prices are pretty consistent for our local yards, maybe that is cheaper up there. 

The club racers who keep their boats out of the water seem to get some sort of annual deal with the marinas to have access to the crane. I've not looked into that personally.


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

SloopJonB said:


> You'd have to be very good to put an SJ24 on a trailer in an hour or two. It would take that long to get the rig down if you didn't have a crane.


Sloop: IIRC, the SJ24 has a deck-stepped mast with hinged base plate, right? It's a fairly lightweight spar & only 3-4' longer than the rig on our SJ21, which I can walk up with one hand. It's usually ten minutes from hitting the parking lot to mast-up on our boat, Then another twenty minutes sorting out the lines.

The OP's real difficulty is going to be finding an affordable trailer and ramp-launching something like this:










But as I understand it, the PNW has lots of deep-draft boats: decent ramps, high tides, and an unusual number of owner-operated boat hoists. Tho probably not on the West side of the Island. The OP could maybe sail the boat there? A long sail, but an interesting one. There are also a few transporters with hydraulic trailers than can haul across the Island, including this guy:

Keel Hauling
Mostly About Boats: BOAT RESCUE PART 2: THE MOVE.

Don't be too horrified when you see the price estimate, tho -- professional hauling is not a thing I'd care to do seasonally! & A crane operator on site will ding you $500/hr.

It's a tricky thing. I'd not want to sail the West Coast of the Island on a swing-keel boat. Not personally. But a full-keeler certainly complicates overland transport. Still, people do it all the time, so it's not untenable.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

bobmcgov said:


> Sloop: IIRC, the SJ24 has a deck-stepped mast with hinged base plate, right? It's a fairly lightweight spar & only 3-4' longer than the rig on our SJ21, which I can walk up with one hand. It's usually ten minutes from hitting the parking lot to mast-up on our boat, Then another twenty minutes sorting out the lines.


I don't know about the hinged step on the 24 but the 21 was designed as a trailerable, the 24 was not.

I owned a Kirby 1/4 Ton for years - it was a 26' development of the 24. I would not have considered dropping the 33' rig without a crane.

The bottom line here is that the 24, while being transportable without heavy equipment like a semi to haul it, is NOT a trailerable. It needs to be regarded as a "big boat" in that regard.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

bobmcgov said:


> .......
> It's a tricky thing. I'd not want to sail the West Coast of the Island on a swing-keel boat. Not personally. But a full-keeler certainly complicates overland transport. Still, people do it all the time, so it's not untenable.


The beauty of the Barkley Sound and other areas on the West Coast that are road-accessible is that you have quite the playground of pristine, sheltered waters 'off the beaten track' Getting there on your own bottom has its own challenges and adventures, and it's not something many will want to do in a smallish boat (but do-able just the same... with the right weather window anything's possible...) Of course of the weather window proves shortlived you can definitely have a few OSMs....

Some of these access roads are less than optimum, and towing a high clearance keelboat might have its challenges there too...


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## jcwhite (Apr 7, 2011)

Update: the seller sent me a stack of pictures from the inside, and it looks very well maintained. Like, surprisingly well maintained (and I'm reasonably sure that they're just some pictures that his fishing buddy had around, not ones that he's carefully made perfect by hiding all the faults). One thing - it doesn't look like there's a head in it at all. Is that standard, or might there be one under the V-berth? I like how open the boat is without having a full plywood wall between the V and the main cabin, but having no head at all would sure make overnight trips a bit more rustic.

He's also got the outboard that he was using on it - a 2006 4 horse 4 stroke that he'll add on for $800. I feel like that sort of engine would really only be useful for entering and exiting a marina, not for helping out if I get caught by weather or some other emergency OSM.

Finally, he's said himself that it's due for a bottom painting. On a 24 footer, if I do the brushing/spraying/whatever myself, how much should I expect that to set me back? Is that something that would add a couple hundred dollars and a few dry weekends to the boat, or would that be $500+ when all is said and done? As noted, it's already on the high side for that boat, and if there are too many add-ons it'll push it out of my ball-park.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Painting it self, it if is a simple paint job, should be doable for less than $200. I've done my 30' boat for that the last two time, including finishing today. Literally, a gallon of paint at 100-200 a gal depending upon brand, a roller and paint bin.
If you have to haul, you will have potentially another 300-400 max for the haul out and some yard time/fees too. 
While it is out, you may need to replace some zincs if this boat has any, probably less than $20-30....I would swag you have none frankly. If you had an inboard, or an iron keel or other parts, then yes. I do not believe an S 24 has any of these. 
If you are getting a haul out for the survey, assuming you are getting one, then reality is, all you may have for extra's is the day cost for the yard, and paint etc when getting down.

marty


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Ahoy JC,

I had a San Juan 23 in Seattle many years ago. While not the performance of the SJ 24, it was trailerable and had a swing keel. I think I paid 3500 bucks for it. I explored the San Juan and the Gulf islands. Never went outside the Srtaits or the West Coast of Vancouver Island. Think there is a good owners group for the Sj 24. Happy sailing!


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

jcwhite said:


> He's also got the outboard that he was using on it - a 2006 4 horse 4 stroke that he'll add on for $800. I feel like that sort of engine would really only be useful for entering and exiting a marina, not for helping out if I get caught by weather or some other emergency OSM.... As noted, it's already on the high side for that boat, and if there are too many add-ons it'll push it out of my ball-park.


Not having seen the boat, I think the package price is higher than I would pay for a 35 yr old San Juan 24. I didn't realize the outboard motor was not included. $4800 for boat & motor, add at least $1500-2000 for a road-worthy trailer, $700 for hauling & bottom paint.... You are likely in for seven grand before you sail it. You can do far, far better for that kind of money.

BTW, a 4hp should push the SJ24 to hull speed in normal conditions. While it won't drive the boat into 10' breaking waves and an F8 gale ... well, the outboard's HP rating is the least of your problems if you find yourself facing those conditions. My personal attitude is we should *never* think of a marine engine, especially an outboard, as a lifesaving device. Their performance limitations and unreliability make them an untrustworthy crutch. Also, the narrow stern on the SJ21 and 24 means they really don't like weight back there -- wrecks speed and handling. That's a major reason we use a trolling motor on our 21.


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