# Best sailboat?



## TSOJOURNER

Who would you say builds the best sailboat for sailing long voyages far away from the coast? What would you say is a good size sailboat for doing this.


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## TSOJOURNER

There are several Great boats for voyageing. I guess it comes down to what the indivual likes. For me that would be Pacific Seacraft. But just so I am not killed here there are many others just as sea worthy and liveable. The size depends on how many in your crew. I have heard of voyagers heading out in a 26 footer on a 2 year or so trip. I wouldn''t do it in anything smaller than a 34. That in my 2 cents worth and it''s worth about that too.


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## Jeff_H

That is about as easy a question as "How long is a piece of string and who makes the best string?" 

There is no universally right answer to either that question or to your questions above without a lot more information such as,

How many people will be cruising aboard and how many will be capable crew?

Where will you be sailing when you are not ''far away from the coast''?

What is your budget? 

How experienced are you? 

Do you care about how fast the boat sails? 

Are you more afraid of capsizing or sinking? 

How physically fit are you? 

How handy are you at repairing things? 

Do you prefer things comfortable more than you prefer things that are easy to maintain? 

In the simpliest answer to "What would you say is a good size sailboat for doing this?" roughly 2 1/2 to 5 long tons per person, with as many as 7 tons per person if you have a big enough budget and enough time to buy more sophisticated hardware and maintain it. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER

How many people will be cruising aboard and how many will be capable crew?
3-4

Where will you be sailing when you are not ''far away from the coast''?
Around the world

What is your budget? 
Low- close to a homeless persons budget

How experienced are you? 
I will be experienced

Do you care about how fast the boat sails?
Somewhat 

Are you more afraid of capsizing or sinking?
nope 

How physically fit are you? 
well

How handy are you at repairing things? 
yes

Do you prefer things comfortable more than you prefer things that are easy to maintain? 
To me comfortable means easy to maintain.


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## Silmaril

IMHO I would have to say that the yachts from Nautor in Finland make some of the best built boats on the planet! They are truely the Rolls Royce of sailing vessels, without the english "quirkiness" associated with the automobile. As far as a "Production" boat is concerned, the craftsmenship and attention to detail is second to none. If I had to choose a long distance companion for serious and safe offshore work, I would search out one of their 44'' models from the mid 70''s. An S&S design, prior to all the rule cheating goofyness of the IOR era, they are remarkable boats. I have sailed many thousands of blue-water miles on them and they are one of the most honest yachts afloat. I concider the size almost ideal for off shore work. Anything under 40'' seems to get intimidated when the foam is blowing straight off the wave tops. 

The Swan 44''s were legendary for their extreme ruggedness. The rig is stout, the hull is massive, and they have all the right stuff for exended stays at sea. They excell in a blow and seem to enjoy it the rougher it gets. 

One of their great failings is light air performance. A boat this tough and strong is no ULDB! While no slouch, a more modern design will sail by them in under 5kts of breeze. In addition, the design is a little "close" for work in the tropics, the semi-flush deck has a bare minimum of openings and ventilation could be better.

I was on one in a blow of probably 35kts+, carrying a chute on a dead run, way over canvassed, in steep 15'' waves when the unthinkable happened. Well, unthinkable on most other boats. We stuffed the bow into the backside of a wave, stopped dead in the water, pitch-poled, yet she bounced back like nothing had happened! The total damage? The spin pole track on the mast got a little bent! Amazing! An incedent like that would have dismasted just about any other boat!

Fine examples of these boats still command almost $300k. But there are quite a few in the mid $100k''s. As in any older boat, systems would have to have been kept up and updated. But due to these boats owners fanaticism, most are very well kept.

A Swan 44 would be my choice to cover the globe in security and style!


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## Jeff_H

That''s a little better. To start with that suggests a boat with minimally 15000 lbs of displacement and more likely closer to 23,000 to 28,000 lbs of displacement. That is roughly a 40 to 45 footer with something around 35 feet as a bottom end although I doubt that you will find a 35 footer of that displacement that will sail "Somewhat" quickly, or carry the tankage and have supply capacity for 4 adults. When you factor in the
"Around the world" factor you are ideally looking for a very robust boat with little useage.I doubt you will find a boat for your "Low- close to a homeless persons budget". I would think that a boat that was robust enough, in reasonably sound shape, and suitable to sailing around the world with up to 4 people would minimally cost in the $40,000 to $60,000 range. I would suspect that getting that boat in sutable condition, simply equipped,with proper spares would require an additional $15,000 to $30,000 if you were capable of doing most of your own labor. Of course that is not really a "Low- close to a homeless person''s budget".

The question "Are you MORE afraid of capsizing or sinking?" is an either or question as this affects some of the necessary tradeoffs involved in selecting a boat. 

Jeff


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## Jeff_H

With all due respect, while the Swan 44 is a very nice boat and a real classic, I would think that their 7''-6" draft would make them pretty ill suited as a circumnavigator if the trip around includes such areas as the Bahamas or the Pacific atols.

I also disagree with your statement That the Swan 44 was designed "prior to all the rule cheating goofyness of the IOR era" These are quintessential early IOR boats with all of the "cheating goofyness of the IOR era" as an integral part of the design including pinched ends, huge headsails and small mainsail, and enough tumble-home to assure that you will roll the rudder up out of the water on a knockdown and roll like a son of gun downwind. 

Given Jeff''s budget, if he is going the Sparkman and Stevens early IOR boat route, he would be far ahead to try to find an early 1970''s era Tartan 41 which were equally ruggedly built, lacked a lot of the high maintenance fru-fru (such as teak decks) found on the Swan 44. 

Please don''t get me wrong here. The Swan 44''s are really neat boats, but IMHO they are really not in line with Jeff''s goals. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## jbarros

There are a set of qualifications I apply to the best cruising boat. 


She should be sound. 

She should have rigging, stearing, sails, and all other systems in proper working order.

She should have nothing you dont need.

She should be paid for. 

Those sound like about it.  

Happy sailing. 

-- James


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## pblais

I would agree with jbaros. only adding - You should like the boat too.

Being a skilled sailor sort of figures into all this as well. The skilled sailor counts more than the parentage or length of the boat. When you are skilled enough to do it you''ll be better equipped to repose the question.


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## Magic_Moments

I have been looking around at boats for a little bit for an upgrade to my 29 foot boat and am budget challenged also. I have 2 boats to toss out and see what people think of them. They may work for what Jeff is looking for.
First is a Bayfield 32, built in the 70''s and 80''s. A strong Canadian boat, several of which have been around the world. There are 2 for sale in Vancouver between $25k and $30k. I think the boat would work for a coulpe, but be really tight for 3 or 4 people. It has very limited water tankage so some modifications would have to be made or lots of Jerry cans brought. I don''t think its an especially fast boat, but I think it could do the job. Draft is 3''9".
Second is A Chris Craft sail yacht 35 foot. These were built in the 60''s and 70''s. Its a center cockpit with a seperate aft cabin in the 60''s boats and a huge engine space, while the 70''s boats have an inside passage and a second head with a smaller engine space. There is a lot of deck space and a lot of stowage space. It seems to be a strong fast boat around 20,000 lbs. It is a S&S design and I have seen one sell under $15k that needed lots of cleaning but was otherwise well outfitted. I see others from $25-35K and I see them rigged from sloop to yawl and some with two headsails and a bowsprit. They have deck stepped masts with a compression post and seem to have held up well. Draft is 4''8".
There are lterally thousands of boats out there for every budget. Both of these are from the lower end and both are full keel boats although there are more and more boats going out with fin keels, it just depends on what you are happy with.

Ken


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## Jeff_H

A couple quick thoughts on the two suggestions. On the Bayfield 32, these boats were notoriously short on stability. It is somewhat masked by their small sail plans and comparatively high inertia. Adding water near or above the waterline, or by way of jerry cans would further destabilize these boats. 

The Chris Craft 35 motorsailor from the 1960''s is a wonderful boat. These were basically wooden boats (meaning glassed over plywood decks, mahogany or teak cabin sides and glassed over wooden cabin tops) with fiberglass hulls, so a very careful survey is in order. They sail well for a boat from that era but no one who ever knew these boats would even vaguely suggest that they were fast boats either from their era or by today''s standards.

The Chris Craft 35 from the 1970''s is a completely different boat than the one from the 1960''s. They did not sail all that well and were very poorly constucted. My step father rebuilt one in the 1980''s and described the build quality on these boats as absolute junk. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## Magic_Moments

Jeff_H Thanks for your comments. Especially for setting me straight on the 70''s Chris Craft 35. I have been on a 1964 and 1965 and assumed the 70''s were the same boat and obviously a little knowledge is dangerous.

I probably spent a month obsessing on the Chris Craft 35 before I moved on. Motoring is a fact of life sometimes in our summertime light air (Puget Sound/Strait of Georgia), but I ended up thinking that boat would be to heavy to sail much here except in winter when there is more wind. I thought it might be a good boat for trade wind sailing though. 

Ken


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## AjariBonten

dnamron41 said:


> Talk to experienced ocean sailors and they will give you good ideas.


Likewise, talk to experienced surfers and do not revive 5 yr old threads, LOL

J/K, welcome aboard and watch out the "the Dog" when he sees this oldie but goodie

:hammer


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## ckgreenman

I'm sure the Dawg will be along fairly soon


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## k1vsk

Jeffamc said:


> How experienced are you?
> I will be experienced
> 
> Are you more afraid of capsizing or sinking?
> nope
> 
> .


This sounds like there are more fundamental issues than boat selection.
With all due respect, anyone who has (currently) no or limited experience and who isn't concerned with that fact alone, never mind the potential for flooding or worse, might be better served by being advised to take a few giant steps back. 
I always wonder if these are actually questions posed by dreamers with no experience, especially evidenced by the fact you appear to have no clue what kind of boat is suitable. If so, there is nothing wrong with dreaming but that fact might help if you want to get the benefit of any good advice how you might better proceed with your plan.

No offense intended - just being practical


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## camaraderie

The thread just revived dates to 2003...the OP is long gone.


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## artbyjody

Best sailboat EVER is mine... post will self destruct the next time I read it...


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## sander06

AjariBonten said:


> Likewise, talk to experienced surfers and do not revive 5 yr old threads, LOL
> 
> J/K, welcome aboard and watch out the "the Dog" when he sees this oldie but goodie
> 
> :hammer


 Don't ya love it when you bring up the fine point that this thread is five years old and no one cares! Kind of like what my wife does to me on ocassion. Why don't you respond to the oldest thread in the forum and see how many numb-nuts drop in for the chat?


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## sailingdog

I've got these guys so well trained... 



AjariBonten said:


> Likewise, talk to experienced surfers and do not revive 5 yr old threads, LOL
> 
> J/K, welcome aboard and watch out the "the Dog" when he sees this oldie but goodie
> 
> :hammer





ckgreenman said:


> I'm sure the Dawg will be along fairly soon


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## ckgreenman

sailingdog said:


> I've got these guys so well trained...


Oh Really???? Maybe we should just send you the link and let you go after them.


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## AjariBonten

sailingdog said:


> I've got these guys so well trained...


Got Ya Back, Dog...

Can I have my biscuit now??


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## ckgreenman

Wait a sec. The DOG. Giving YOU a biscuit? Isn't that backwards?


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## sailingdog

Good boy... Here ya go... 











AjariBonten said:


> Got Ya Back, Dog...
> 
> Can I have my biscuit now??


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## sasfish

*re*

So many great boats but my top three are the : AMEL 53, SUNDEER or deerfoot and van de stadt samoa.


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## johnshasteen

In the 30ish range, my favorites are several reasonably priced, older boats that can go anywhere in any weather (too many of the new boats are production boats built to a price): Westsail, Bayfield, Cape Dory, Bristol and a few others.


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## AndreK

*Sadler 34, Morgan 384, Allied Luder 33*

I am planning for a 2 year holiday direction wherever the wind blows. Since my budget is limited I thought of getting one of the above mentioned used boats...I like it fast, safe and with some comfort - not particularly in that order...If anyone has some experience with those boats please let me know your thoughts..thanks


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## AndreK

*Sadler 34, Morgan 384, Allied Luder 33*

I am planning for a 2 year holiday direction wherever the wind blows. Since my budget is limited I thought of getting one of the above mentioned used boats...I like it fast, safe and with some comfort - not particularly in that order...If anyone has some experience with those boats please let me know your thoughts..thanks
Edit/Delete Message


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## AndreK

Sadler 34, Morgan 384, Allied Luder 33

I am planning for a 2 year holiday direction wherever the wind blows. Since my budget is limited I thought of getting one of the above mentioned used boats...I like it fast, safe and with some comfort - not particularly in that order...If anyone has some experience with those boats please let me know your thoughts..thanks


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## sailingdog

Andre—

You'd really be better off starting your own thread, rather than hijacking one that should have died off long ago on a different topic.


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## AndreK

what is the best boat for a 2 year cruise around the world for 2-4 people...
Must have some comfort, fast and safe


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## SpellboundHR49

I was disappointed to find Swan's, Stevens as a result for a best boat search. Both nice boats but if we're talking about "best" offshore, there's a class above. I've got to go with Hallberg Rassy first then Hinckley, Vallient, Tyana, Lord Nelson. All true blue water boats. I was single handing my Hallberg Rassy 49 off Cape Fear, In a North Easter, It was blowing 42 mph steady and seas at 12 plus. For Spellbound our HR 49, this was wonderful day at sea.


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## mitiempo

And not Morris?


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## SpellboundHR49

Yes, Morris too. I don't care for the models with large salon windows i.e. the 48 but the 51 is real nice. flat decks, good freeboard, hard dogger. I'd love to take the new 29 out for a sail.


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## mitiempo

I prefer the older Morris boats like their 36 and 38.


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## Waltthesalt

To get an idea about older boats you might want to look at Daniel Spurr's book "Heart of Glass" It's an encyclopedic book on the history of fibergalss boat building with info on manufacturers that are no longer in business. For serious blue water cruising you might want to consider one of those Perry designes Tiwanese built boats like the Baba 30. The Westsail 32 is a US built blue water heavy dury cruiser boat of the 70's vintage. A bit lighter but still a heavily built offshore boat is the Allied Seawind 30.


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## otiscj37

*Best small sailboat!*

The guy that posted the Pacific Seacraft boats is right! You need not read more! The 20ft. Flicka will take you anywhere in the world you want to go! And that is their smallest boat. I do like Macgregors, and I have a few, but that thing(26) he makes now is not a sailboat it is a joke! I sailed a Westsail 32 a long time, and that is very good, but if you want small, The Flicka is it, No better(We are talking safe here) Happy Sailing, Capt. Tony


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## mjasko

*Best boat*

When this thread started almost 11 years ago, the question was about a good blue water boat around 40 feet. Since then the focus seems more about good and safe blue water boats at any size. 
Well I want to slight adjust the topic. I am back to 40 ft plus and less blue water and more coastal.
So we are looking at a boat that draws 6 feet or less. However coastal sailors r get off shore some and can always have a blow when the y least expect it. We reentry had 45 plus 50 miles out of Boston although the NOAA sail to expect no more that gust to 25. It never went below 30 for the rest of the day. Our Bristol 41.1 handled it like it was an everyday affair. I spent 3 years on the 1980's Bristol 41.1 but more recently, I have been sailing on a new Hunter 44. Both boats were equipped the same, new reefing sails, engines and Trans and electronic. Wirth the updated equipment the Bristol owner had far more in her than the Hunter owner. 
My guess is that the Bristol is a much safer blue water boat yet with a retractable keel draws less water than the Hunter. However, the Hunter will out sail the Bristol on all points and is much more comfortable below. Now I am trying to buy my own boat and it will be over 41 feet. I sail short hand when I can, just me and my gal. . Not sure which way I will go since for me it will be mostly coastal sailing and in the islands. I don't feel the Hunter is nearly the boat the Bristol is but like a lot of the newer boats, she is built for comfort and ability to sail.
I would welcome everyone opinions about their own boat sand what they like and what they wish was different.


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## danplus

11/27/15 

My first sailboat was a used 27" Buccaneer that I used to sail in our large saltwater lake. I owned it for about 4 years but that was over 15 years ago. I haven't been sailing since. What you some of you recommend as a affordable used sailboat to get back into the sport? I think I could handle up to a 35 - 40 if it's simple enough to sail as a one-man. Thanks. Dan


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