# C&C 29 or C&C 32



## skypilot73 (Apr 13, 2008)

I am looking at purchasing either a C&C 29 or C&C 32. The boat will be shared with my father and my family. There will be times my father will be alone so his concern is that the 32' might be too big to dock etc. When the family is onboard I would prefer the extra space of the 32'

Does the traveller on the C&C 29 II cause interference entering and exiting the cabin? An issue for small children, dogs? 

If the two boats were the same price is there a reason you would purchase a 29' over the 32'?

We are looking at our first cruising boat - we will not race this boat at present time. 

We have found a boat that is in good condition but heavily raced is that an issue or concern? As well, another has had one elderly owner and never raced is that a plus?

Thanks in advance and any more info would be appreciated.

What is the ball park we should be paying for these boats - vintage mid 80's

Dan


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I have an 83 35 C&C MKIII k/c and have no problem singlehanding her. The stability of the larger 32 would steer me to her. Raciong the boat would be a red flag somewhat and I would look at streess points such as chainplates, winch bedding, keelbolts etc. Having the traveler cabintop would be a safety consideration with small children potentially rather than having it before the companionway.

C&C made sturdy great combo cruiser racers in the 80s.

Dave


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## skypilot73 (Apr 13, 2008)

Which boat would sleep more people comfortably? The quarter berth on the 29' appears less claustrophobic without the chart table - is this the case? The chart table is handy but is it a valued addition?

Thanks

Dan


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## DrB (Mar 29, 2007)

*Get the 32*

There are reasons to have the traveler in the cockpit such as single handing and racing. However, the traveler in the cockpit, depending on exactly where it is located, can limit the seating surface and is one more thing to get tangled in while manuevering in the cockpit or going below deck. My traveler is in the cockpit on the bridge deck, and it's advantages versus disadvantges for me are fine. If you don't plan to race and just want to cruise, having the traveler on the coachroof is can be preferable; especially if you have more than a few people on a sail and/or kids. One less thing get tangled in in the cockpit.

As far as size, there is much difference in docking characteristics of 29 versus a 32 foot boot, so that that shouldn't be a concern. The 32 will be roomier though for cruising. You'll appreciate it and you won't keep second guessing yourself if you opted for the 29. Everone has that 3-foot itis disease as in "If I only had a boat 3 feet longer, I'd be content, have more room, sail better", make up your own reason. I once looked at a boat that the owner was selling a 33 ft because he just bought a 36 foot boat, ie 3-foot itis. In all fairness, though he was going from a Pearson 33-2 toa Catalina 36, so not only was he buying 3 feet more, because he was going to a Catalina, he was getting a lot more volume per/foot, than a Pearson 36 would have afforded him.

As far as whether it is okay to buy a boat that was "raced", depends on a lot of factors such as how often, how hard, was the boat designed to be a "racer", and how was it maintained. I boat a bought (Pearson 10M) that was once raced and thought nothing of it. I wouldn't be concerned if you had it surveyed and it passed. But make sure if you do opt for and put an offer in on the "raced" boat, if that is the one you like, make sure you tell the surveyor to really pay extra attention to the areas that Chef2Sail mentions.

C&C's made decent production boats in the 80's. Depending on the condition and stuff that the boat has, for that size range I think that you are looking at asking prices in the high 30's to 50K. (dollars).

DrB


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

I agree with most of what has been said. I would go with whatever one is in the best condition. I wouldn't be concerned about the difficulty of handling the 32 over the 29. I have the traveler in the cockpit and find it the preferred location for single handing. As noted, it does get in the way when you have a number of people in the cockpit.

I think DrB's estimated prices are a bit high. In this market I would think mid 80s boats of this size would be more in the $15K to $35K range. Do a little searching on Yachtworld.com and look at NADA and BUC to get an idea of typical prices.


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## DrB (Mar 29, 2007)

*Yachtworld prices*

I looked on Yachtworld to get my estimates. I only did a real quick search and only looked at 32 ft boats (C&C), so I could be off a little.

DrB


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## skypilot73 (Apr 13, 2008)

Thanks for all the great info:

The one racing boat I am looking at is priced at $43,000 (32') and there is another boat owned by the elderly gentleman (32') priced at $49,000 that has never been raced.

The racing boat has a complete cruising and racing compliments of sails including spinnakers and is outfitted with extra winches, and all the electronics that you would ever need including a wireless autopilot remote, hand held VHF data connection for PC etc. It does not have a dodger or a furling genoa.

The other boat has almost nil in electronics, no gps, no autopilot and comes with the main, and a furling %150 genoa and a storm jib. There is a nice dodger on board and a electric anchor. 

By the time I added a dodger and a furling rig on the cheaper boat and electronics and an autopilot on the more expensive boat where would I be on price?

I live in Canada and the racing boat resides in the United States and the other boat is on the west coast of Canada. Are there concerns bringing a boat into Canada? What fees are required? We would plan to sail it back to Canada.

Thanks

Dan


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## bushrat (Aug 24, 2007)

There is no duty to bring the boat over the border. You pay sales taxes only. It is a very painless process, just be honest with your sale price and don't try and save a few bucks by low balling it. Have all your paper work and a copy of the listing is also good to have.


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## bushrat (Aug 24, 2007)

No duty is for any boat built in North America.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

skypilot73 said:


> Thanks for all the great info:
> 
> The one racing boat I am looking at is priced at $43,000 (32') and there is another boat owned by the elderly gentleman (32') priced at $49,000 that has never been raced.
> 
> ...


I personally - would go for the equipped boat. You'll have more sails, all the electronics - you can get a used furler or new (but you can sail it without - my C-27 never had one), and a dodger is not a necessity but can be had for under 3K (especially if you diy). The electronics alone and the fact it has a autopilot - you will be thankful for the 10K or so it would take to outfit the less equipped...


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## Johnrb (Sep 21, 2002)

Dan: The C&C's were likely Canadian built so there is no problem in bringing them back. There would be no issues either if they were U.S. built boats (or Mexican for that matter) due to NAFTA. Several posters on Sailnet have imported boats and I've checked in the past with the CRA. The G.S.T. is payable as is provincial sales tax (assuming you are not in Alberta). One issue to inquire about is avoiding paying sales tax in the state where you are buying the boat if it is for export to Canada.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Go for the unraced 32. I own a C&C design and have raced on many models, and they are really beautiful sailers in most conditions and very safe when you understand their "little ways". But the fatal flaw on C&Cs is the balsa-core deck and the fact that they usually go through a freeze-thaw cycle every winter. Racing strains the deck fitting and the deck to hull join, plus the usual stuff like stanchion bases, winch bases, etc. This can lead to water intrusion, and not all C&C (or many to my knowledge) had solid fibreglass where the thru-bolts attach the deck gear to the underside of the cabins, and where fender washers serve instead of the better option of backing plates. Also, the wiring in many older C&Cs is strictly house-grade...not remotely to today's code.

A freshwater-only one will generally be in better condition than a salt-water one, but you MUST get a survey to determine the real state of affairs. Think of it as a bargaining chip, because a survey WILL reveal issues in a C&C, but you can live with some issues, and others, not so much. Good luck. Where would you be sailing out of?


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

As far as importing a boat into Canada if the boat is made in North America, which C&Cs are, there is no duty. GST always applies. There is no PST on used boats imported into Quebec and there is no PST in Alberta. If you are going to register the boat use a Quebec or Alberta hailing port and avoid PST.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Both seem overpriced


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*I think..*

his prices are in Canadian dollars.


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## skypilot73 (Apr 13, 2008)

What would be the price to purchase a furling rig?

Are there any good online shops that are recommended so that I can browse some of the costs associated with equipment.

Thanks again

Dan


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## skypilot73 (Apr 13, 2008)

I am based in Calgary, Alberta and would be mooring the boat in Victoria. So can I register the boat in Calgary and keep it on the coast to save costs on the tax?

Thanks 

Dan


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## tigerregis (Nov 24, 2006)

*Gst*

Boats built and sold before GST was introduced do not have to pay it. They have the old FST built in and are exempt IIRC.


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

Skypilot, the only port of registration in Alberta is Edmonton. As far as FST vs GST that certainly is worth checking out. Since the boat is being imported it may not be GST exempt as the FST may not have been paid when it was exported.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

tigerregis said:


> Boats built and sold before GST was introduced do not have to pay it. They have the old FST built in and are exempt IIRC.


Possible.... my son only recalls paying one tax on a 1973 boat imported in 2005 - that would have been PST. Worth confirming....



skypilot73 said:


> I am based in Calgary, Alberta and would be mooring the boat in Victoria. So can I register the boat in Calgary and keep it on the coast to save costs on the tax?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Dan


Yes you can... take a look around Sidney Harbour marina - most boats are Alberta licensed.

BTW big difference between "registry" and "licencing" in Canada. Licencing is free and uncomplicated, you get a "BC (or ALberta) number" to apply to the boat... And you can claim any hailing port you like.

Registering involves name searches, fees, and a "blue book" - and your vessel goes into the Canadian Shipping Registry. There are advantages, one of which is _not_ having to display a "number" on the hull of the vessel.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

toothdawg said:


> his prices are in Canadian dollars.


The Canadian and U.S. dollars have been circling at par for many months now. Read them as "same" in terms of boat buying, unless there's local reasons for a price difference (C&Cs command higher prices in Toronto because Torontonians know them and they still comprise a large part of the fleets here).


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## mikehoyt (Nov 27, 2000)

Never dismiss the costs of sails.

A boat that has been raced needs to have decent sails and sailing equipment but may be light on some cruising amenities. A boat that has been cruised may often have much older sails that require replqcement.

Get a survey. The racing boat is better equipped and all teh stuff that comes with a boat is far far cheaper than anything you will later purchase to add to it.

Mike


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Currently, Canadian dollars are worth more than American dollars IIRC.



toothdawg said:


> his prices are in Canadian dollars.


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## pfatyol (Dec 16, 2003)

I have a '84, C&C 32, and I can speak to it but not the 29. Definately get the survey, when I had purchased mine, the deck checked out fine but the anchor locker door as well as the gas locker door had higher mosture readings. The hinges were the cause, they were just through bolted into the doors. Drilling out the holes, drying and poting the holes solved the issue. The stantions mount to the toe rail with beefy casting so there is typically not an issue there.

It is easy to single hand the 32, especially with a wheel pilot, and a good purchase on the main sheet. 

When I purchased my the instruments that worked were the Radar and loran, and have since replaced, the depth and log, installed the wheel pilot, GPS.

I believe it was standard in the mid 80 for rod rigging, I have a baby stay as well.

One area to watch out for is the bulkhead aft of the quater birth, the suveyor said it was not structual but had pulled away from the tabbing, It was an easy fix, but difficult to access.

If you have any questions on the 32, PM me. I have done a pretty exentsive refit in the last five years, from stripping the hull / new barrier coat, to new head to totally going through the 2GMF.

Pat
Couple areas to loo


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The choice is this... get the boat with all the equipment, that was raced, and have more toys, but possibly more problems due to the fact that it was raced, and used hard. Or, get the granny's boat that was not raced, and have to add a lot of the goodies, but have a hull and deck that are in possibly better shape.


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## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

Or not. A well run race boat may be in top form, and the boat owned by the elderly fellow may have languished and be in less than top form from neglect, having never sailed a hard day.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Get the 32 ft. racer*and be done with it. Plus, you don't have to add any of the goodies to it. That will come in handy [if you don't or can't add those new goodies]; you just jump in and sail away. 
I agree that the racer might be the better deal since it would probably be better 
maintained than "granny's" sailboat.

Bottom line: get a survey on the better looking & equipped boat. Then fine-tune your offer even more...

Good luck.


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

I am the former owner of a C&C 36. It sounds to me that both of those boats are priced high. It is very much a buyer's market. I would probably offer substantially below wht they are asking. There are a lot of people around who are desperate to sell. I would try to find out how long they have been on the market.


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