# Flying Scot - did I buy the wrong boat?



## jboat73

This has been my first season with a Flying Scot. I think I may have bought the wrong boat.

I'm a novice sailor. I've taken the ASA 101 class last spring and chartered several times. Those were on things like a Capri 22, O'Day 25, Catalina 25. I do not have years of experience.

I bought a Flying Scot based on the reputation as stable and good family boats. I did not buy it to race.

My Scot has been very responsive - it sails in light wind and reacts quickly to my changes. I now think it may be too responsive for my skill level. I'm nervous that if I don't anticipate what's going to happen, I could get into trouble easily.

I don't want the risk of capsizing. Of course it is possible in any boat, but I want something where the risk is very small. I now realize that the Scot has a higher risk of capsizing than something with a fixed keel. I think that is basic boat design that I didn't appreciate enough.

My wife has no sailing experience and is looking for a lounging experience (newspaper, cold drink etc). I have two kids (6 and 9) that have loved sailing, love the water. My wife is not interested in ending up in the water. My kids would probably say they'd like to fall off, but I think they'd actually get scared and it could put them off sailing.

I have a wet slip on a lake, so the advantage of being able to trailer a Scot are not important to me.

I want to emphasize that my interactions with Flying Scot Inc have been great. Also, other Scot sailors have been extremely nice and helpful. I crewed in a race once and it was a blast.

I think my issue is that I didn't match the pros/cons of the Scot with my personal menu of desires. I think I bought a boat that is great for an experienced sailor, or someone that is fine with some capsizes.

What do you think? 

Do you agree that a slightly larger fixed keel boat (like a Capri 22) would be better suited for me? I expect it won't be as resopnsive in light winds, but it would be more stable in moderate or heavy winds. I'm not interested in overnighting, so the down-below area isn't important (part of the reason the Scot was attractive). I wanted/want a bigger cockpit area.

I now have a better appreciation for what people say about buying a boat - that is is a very personal decision and differnt for everyone!

Thanks in advance.


----------



## manatee

Could you try sailing with one reef in the main until you get more comfortable?...smaller/no jib?


----------



## jsaronson

Unless you are in 20 knots of wind you are unlikely to capsize. Find an experienced sailor to go out with you and give you some tips.


----------



## Jiminri

Flying Scots are really nice boats. I owned one for a few years and had a blast. They are really very stable and you should never experience a capsize if you are not pushing it (e.g., racing) and pay the least bit of attention. The local sailing centers near DC teach on Scots and that's what they rent to the new sailors. I'd take manatee's advice and reef until you are more comfortable. No shame in that. Pick your weather window. Also, never cleat the main sheet. If you feel you are losing control, just let go of the sheet. The boat will settle down nicely.

All that said, a CB boat generally will not be as stable as a keel boat. So, if it would help you and your family to enjoy sailing, instead of being anxious, I'd say trade in the Scot for something else. The point is to have a great time and want to get out on the water.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## CalebD

I'd guess that most Flying Scot's that were rigged for racing do not come with reefing points. There were no reef points on my Lightning 19' (similar sized center boarder). 

I think you have discovered the essence and personality of a Flying Scot: nimble, responsive, fast and a bit tender (tends to heel quickly). Most keel boats will be much more forgiving, stable and not at all likely to capsize. They will also be slower and less sporty - but if you can live with that and that is what you want = now you know.

Before buying your next boat you should gain some familiarity with it to figure out it's personality; preferably go for test sails on different models. 

did you like the Catalina 25' you sailed on? There is a version of the C25 that has a fixed fin keel which should be the most stable, as long as it does not have the "tall rig" mast. Standard rig with fixed fin keel is what I'd suggest.

Hope you have no trouble unloading your Flying Scot.


----------



## KIVALO

I have never sailed a flying scott so I wont comment on the boat specifically. As for your ability and therefor safety, with time and practice you will become a skilled sailor. The trepidation you feel now will pass. As was mentioned earlier it will likely be a big help to bring a more experienced sailor with you. Point out the areas that give you concern. It might as simple as sailing with a reef until your more comfortable.

Best of luck and don't hesitate to ask the group here for help. There is a wealth of knowledge around this place.

Brad


----------



## bobperry

You don't reef a boat like the Flying Scot, you just "depower" and hang on and hike your ass off. Very few dinghies have reef points and your boat, without ballast is a dinghy. It's a dinghy Caleb and has to be sailed like a dinghy. I know the boat well but I've never sailed one. My guess is that it would be hard as hell to capsize. You'd have to be trying. That boat will tip on it's ear and then most probably round up and dump the wind out of the sails and then right itself.

The shape is funky with that big fat bow but the boats were very popular in the Mid west in the 60's. Just go at it slowly and whn in doubt let the sheet out.
You'll be fine. I am pretty darn certain you bought the right boat.


----------



## Jiminri

My Flying Scot's sail (a fairly new boat) could be reefed. It had "roller reefing" in that you rolled up the sail on the boom and you could make the sail as small as you wanted. (With some loss of efficient shape, but who cares...you aren't racing.)

The rental Scot's in DC have traditional slab reefing. They wouldn't rent these boats to newbies if they weren't easy to keep upright.


----------



## Ward H

I do not know how a newbie in sailing, who does not know how much he wants to invest in the sport, does not know what type of sailing he wants to do, or even if he will get sea sick, can pick a boat he will stick with for several years. There are so many types and choices of boats out there.
My story,
My wife and I sailed a daysailer for two summers 30 some years ago. I always wanted to try it again, especially as I neared retirement age. 
So I bought a 17' Newport for $1k w/ trailer. Admiral went along with that because of the cheap price. Then I needed an outboard and next thing we knew we had about $2500 into it. BUT, that starter boat was what we needed to figure out if we still like sailing and wanted ti invest more into the hobby. It showed us we hated trailering, we needed a boat with a cabin and we needed a boat we could sit up in without getting wacked by the boom. 
We also needed something we could do some relaxing sails that was much more stable.
Within the year we moved to an Oday 25. Perfect boat for a second boat. Easy to sail, stable, can handle heavier winds or we can just put up the sails and sail while laying back and sipping our fruity drinks.
Maybe some people can pick their first boats right the first time but as I was advised my first boat will definitely not be my last boat and they were right. Even our second boat is a learner boat. 
So, play with your boat and remember one thing. You need to have the Admiral on board and if you and the admiral decide on a type of sailing that appeals to you, and the boat you have is the wrong one for that type of sailing, bite the bullet and get the one you feel you will be happy with.


----------



## bljones

If your wife wants to relax and read, then yep, it is the wrong boat. It is areally really fun boat, and in a breeze she'll keep you on your toes...
but you'll be a better sailor for it.
There is only one solution.
You need to buy a small keelboat to add to the fleet.


----------



## overbored

you have a place on the water so keep the scott they are great boats to learn in. before long your kids will be sailing it and dad and mom will need their own boat. something that mom can sit in with a glass of something cold and a book to read while your kids sail circles around you.
Look at the Rhodes 19 a great boat comes fixed keel or centerboard


----------



## CLucas

A Flying Scot is a great first boat for you and your family. They are beamy, roomy and quite stable for a CB boat of that size. That said, in all but light air, a Scot is more of an active rather than passive sailing experience. It's a great boat for you and your wife to sharpen your skills and enjoy some great daysailing adventures. You would have to try pretty hard to capsize a Scot -- not that you couldn't, but it would be pretty difficult. Go out in conditions suited to your abilities and the comfort of your passengers. You shouldn't put the boat on its ear when you're out -- it's a slow way to sail anyway -- but you should help your family understand that heeling is part of sailing. Remember that your wife and kids will get their cues from you -- if you appear anxious when the boat heels, they will be anxious. If you explain why you're heeling and that it's normal, they will learn to be relaxed. As far as reading the paper and enjoying a drink, a Scot may not be the ideal boat for that (except in light air), but I might suggest you get the admiral involved in sailing. Moving up to a larger boat will be easier once she's hooked and you have her support. The admiral on Grey Goose enjoys sailing in most conditions and we both still enjoy what she jokingly refers to as 'cocktail sailing' -- conditions where you won't spill your marguerita . I say stick with and sail your Flying Scot for at least a year before considering a change.


----------



## Michael K

I was raised on dinghies starting back in '74, sailing many different designs under 20' over the years since. Over a decade ago I taught adults to sail on Flying Scots for two seasons at one of the metro DC marinas Jiminri mentioned. From that experience I have to say the Scots were the most stable and, in a blow, forgiving monohull design under 20' I've ever sailed. My advice is simple: give yourself some time underway aboard your FS before giving up on it. You'll grow into it and you'll be glad you took the time to adjust. If you also sail other dinghy designs for the sake of comparison you'll likely discover the gem you currently own. Failing that, I'm almost tempted to suggest you email me for the right to first refusal when you sell the Scot.


----------



## bobperry

"small keel boat"?
That's for wussies. Stick with a boat that can capsize. It will make you a far better sailor.
Maybe a better swimmer too.


----------



## Barquito

Do what the Scot does well. Go racing. Find some friends that want to get wet, and go for it. When the conditions are right, take the family out with cold drinks and newspapers. And who knows, maybe some in your family might dig racing too.


----------



## Coquina

If you go on any forum for dinghy racers, a Flying Scot would be described as like sailing a brick outhouse. They have to be about the most stable centerboard boat ever made!
That said, they WILL capsize if you really put some effort into it. I would try about 30 knots and have the family all sit on the low side 

That said, this boat is not ideal for reading and snoozing underway. It CAN capsize and I have a feeling it is a project to get back up again. I would consider doing the following: 
1. Sell the FS to a local racer.
2. Buy a Sunfish or some other small cheap CB boat that can be quickly righted to play around with and learn to sail better. Lots of various types around and the key is they don't really hold water. Laser is another example, it can be righted and be underway in 20 seconds. AMong other things the "dreaded capsize" will no longer be a scary mystery.
3. Buy a 20-25 foot keelboat. Unless badly designed, keelboats *cannot* be capsized by wind. The worst thing that wind can do is lay them over about 90 degrees until someone lets a sail loose. If you get the right boat you'll have cockpit seats long enough to stretch out on and a small cabin to hide from storms and store things in. I don't know what you can find around you, but way back in the day the Cal 20 was ideal for this use.

Also suggest you crew for a FS racer. That will be fun


----------



## krisscross

Don't give up on your Scot. Just buy a used smaller set of sails, like from a 14 or 15 foot boat, and keep using them until all of you guys are comfortable and have learned how to act on your boat when sailing. Smaller sails will make the boat more stable and less responsive - but in stronger winds you will still sail fast. Then you can go back to the big sails and have real fun. Scot is an awesome dinghy but it does require some skill to sail nicely.


----------



## overbored

some good videos about the Scot
The Flying Scot - The Best Daysailer in the World


----------



## FirstCandC

There was a FS at the marina where I bought my boat. It was parked on a trailer near the entrance. I drooled over that boat EVERY time I went down to work on my boat. You may or may not decide to keep it, but PLEASE enjoy it while you have it!
Also, as much as I like my keel boat, keep in mind that there is a lot more maintenance. Lighting, plumbing, cushions, rigging, etc etc etc.


----------



## Coquina

All true, but depending on the wife, it may or may not be easier to convince her to give up on lounging and reading and not worrying about capsizing then it is to find another boat 



FirstCandC said:


> There was a FS at the marina where I bought my boat. It was parked on a trailer near the entrance. I drooled over that boat EVERY time I went down to work on my boat. You may or may not decide to keep it, but PLEASE enjoy it while you have it!
> Also, as much as I like my keel boat, keep in mind that there is a lot more maintenance. Lighting, plumbing, cushions, rigging, etc etc etc.


----------



## Group9

I've sailed on Scotts a lot. I think it's a great first boat. It's possible to flip one, but not that easy (I've never flipped one and I flip a Hobie about every other time I take one out so I'm not that conservative when I daysail )


----------



## TJC45

I learned to fly on a tree lined short grass field. As my flying progressed to larger more advanced aircraft the question of where i took my primary training always came up. it was met with with the same response from almost everyone _ You flew there? Yup and because i didn't know it was supposedly impossible to land a plane there, for me, and everyone else who flew there, it wasn't. We didn't know any better. We were taught by people who knew how to get it done, and because of that, right out of primary training we were better pilots than many. 

So it goes with dinghy sailing. There is no cruise control. You can't let the boat get ahead of you. Learn to sail a dinghy well and you will be a better sailor for it. 

You sail in the Delaware River? If so the New Castle Sailing Club ( think that's the name) in New Castle Delaware sails a fleet of Flying Scots. Real nice people! I'm sure for a case of beer they would be more than happy to give you some tiller observation time along with ways of detuning the Scot into the don't spill the tea boat you want it to be. Bottom line, if i can sail the grossly over powered Hobie 16 and Nacra 17 without flipping in 20mph winds, you can do the same with a FS. No need to give up on the boat. Just learn how to do it.

Also the advice to get some capsize experience on a sun fish or laser, good stuff!!!


----------



## emcentar

I learned to sail on Flying Scots at one of the marinas here in DC. I then sailed them for years on the Potomac. You really can't capsize this boat unless you are out in a gale. 

However, if you feel like you are going to capsize, you may need to learn more about sail trim and dumping air in a puff. I've been out in 30 knot puffs in this boat and it will heel alarmingly. Just ease the main quickly and let the air out in the puffs. You should also be able to reef your sails but do this on shore before heading out in stronger winds. 

One of my favorite features of this boat is its stability and performance in light air. That said, this is not a 'sit and drink wine' cruiser boat. You may have not bought the wrong boat for yourself but maybe the wrong boat for your wife. But you'll learn a lot sailing this boat if you decide to keep her for a while.

E.


----------



## TJC45

BTW, i learned to sail on Flying Scots. I love the boat. As i recall the boat can be reefed as reefing was part of the instruction. The boat was comfortable and stable. Compared to my usual ride, the Hobie 16, the FS was rock solid.


----------



## Group9

emcentar said:


> That said, this is not a 'sit and drink wine' cruiser boat.
> 
> E.


When I used to race FS's, I used to keep my beer in a coozy with line around my neck, because even with two people, you need all your hands a lot on a Scott (especially flying a chute).


----------



## micksbuddy

As others have said, it's not easy to capsize a Scot, you pretty much have to want to capsize to have that happen. Whether or not the main is reefable depends on how the boat is rigged. Mine (and most class legal boats) is not set up for reefing. I have not personally seen a boat set up for reefing by rolling the main around the boom, but at the least you'd have to have end-boom sheeting and most boats(even my 48 year old Scot) have mid-boom sheeting. I think you can get a main with traditional slab reefing reefpoints, they're not class legal, but if you're not racing that doesn't matter and being able to reef the main in higher winds (15+) would make the boat a bit more relaxing to sail with your family on breezy days. Other than that, they're great boats for daysailing, nice big cockpit and easy to sail.


----------



## Chas H

I agree with bljones about your wife's desires. A small keelboat with a small cabin would be a good choice for several reasons. It's a great place to put a cooler, extra clothes, jackets etc. A small porta-poti for the kids. You may also get an idea if you want to grow into a larger boat for weekend cruising. And your wife may be more relaxed on a seat than the deck. Some shoal draft keel boats also have centerboards which help a boat go to windward better and they are easily trailer-able. Keel depth may depend a lot on the water depth in your lake and slip.

Check out Sailboatdata.com for specs on a bunch of boats. Some smaller keelboats are also great performers.

The only downside  is that your kids will love the cabin and will try to talk you into sleeping overnight.
-CH


----------



## Coquina

I did my first lessons at MD43. Short grass field, hill in the middle, tall trees at the end. We even did NIGHT work there 

That said, if the guy's wife is unhappy not being able to stretch out and relax he may gain a lot of skills and lose his crew with the FS.



TJC45 said:


> I learned to fly on a tree lined short grass field. As my flying progressed to larger more advanced aircraft the question of where i took my primary training always came up. it was met with with the same response from almost everyone _ You flew there? Yup and because i didn't know it was supposedly impossible to land a plane there, for me, and everyone else who flew there, it wasn't. We didn't know any better. We were taught by people who knew how to get it done, and because of that, right out of primary training we were better pilots than many.
> 
> So it goes with dinghy sailing. There is no cruise control. You can't let the boat get ahead of you. Learn to sail a dinghy well and you will be a better sailor for it.
> 
> You sail in the Delaware River? If so the New Castle Sailing Club ( think that's the name) in New Castle Delaware sails a fleet of Flying Scots. Real nice people! I'm sure for a case of beer they would be more than happy to give you some tiller observation time along with ways of detuning the Scot into the don't spill the tea boat you want it to be. Bottom line, if i can sail the grossly over powered Hobie 16 and Nacra 17 without flipping in 20mph winds, you can do the same with a FS. No need to give up on the boat. Just learn how to do it.
> 
> Also the advice to get some capsize experience on a sun fish or laser, good stuff!!!


----------



## tommays

While this my wife of 32 years favored position and weather



A gradual and progressive program of increasing her confidence that the boat is unlikely to sink has resulted in smiling on the 25 knot days and taking the helm as required while I do stuff on LONG TRIPS



And keep in mind my wife has a well above normal fear of the water and if I had forced her into things to fast we would be missing a lot of great times


----------



## Tiger-words

I don't think you bought the wrong boat for the reasons stated. While it's possible to tip a Scot, the chances are small. Make sure you always have your hand on the main sheet to ease in big wind - that will be your best defense, and also be ready with the the jib sheet too. I turtled once and it took a lot. Wind was blasting, my mate was an overly-zealous novice who didn't know a jib from a winch-handle, and it was BLOWING with gusts. So we dumped. It wasn't the worst thing in the world and it happens quite slowly. Keep in mind your weight should always be to windward (my first mistake in that instance) and also keep in mind that once the hull is out of the water, the wind pushes directly on that dumping you. If it happens, get someone out to the mast-head to keep it from dropping below water level. When it goes too far and the centerboard returns to the trunk (due to gravity), you're done. If you can get ahead of things you can upright it fairly easily. Look on Youtube for instances of this occurring. The only other thing of which I think you should be mindful is the current in the Delaware. I live in Philadelphia but don't generally sail it there - I have sailed lots on the Delaware, but not with my Flying Scot, mainly because I never sail with a motor so I don't want to deal with the currents in that river. So if you sail there, please do so with a motor. 
Happy sailing!
JHS


----------



## TakeFive

Tiger-words said:


> I don't think you bought the wrong boat for the reasons stated. While it's possible to tip a Scot, the chances are small. Make sure you always have your hand on the main sheet to ease in big wind - that will be your best defense, and also be ready with the the jib sheet too. I turtled once and it took a lot.  Wind was blasting, my mate was an overly-zealous novice who didn't know a jib from a winch-handle, and it was BLOWING with gusts. So we dumped. It wasn't the worst thing in the world and it happens quite slowly. Keep in mind your weight should always be to windward (my first mistake in that instance) and also keep in mind that once the hull is out of the water, the wind pushes directly on that dumping you. If it happens, get someone out to the mast-head to keep it from dropping below water level. When it goes too far and the centerboard returns to the trunk (due to gravity), you're done. If you can get ahead of things you can upright it fairly easily. Look on Youtube for instances of this occurring. The only other thing of which I think you should be mindful is the current in the Delaware. I live in Philadelphia but don't generally sail it there - I have sailed lots on the Delaware, but not with my Flying Scot, mainly because I never sail with a motor so I don't want to deal with the currents in that river. So if you sail there, please do so with a motor.
> Happy sailing!
> JHS


I know the OP. He ultimately concluded that it was the wrong boat, and has it up for sale. Contact him if you know someone who is interested:

For Sale - Flying Scot with trailer


----------



## Tiger-words

Thanks. So let me get this right, he purchased in 2012 and was afraid of turtling and then,in 2013, actually turtled and damaged it and is now selling? 
Sheesh, poor guy.


----------



## WoobaGooba

If it helps, I have capsized the FS about half a dozen times over the last few years. All racing. Typically a) spaz-ed out with the mainsheet cleated upwind in gusty / shifting Northerlys and b) heavy air downwind plane in 4-6' seas. Drove it straight in after failing to pick through the next wave front. Translation ... it aint easy to capsize these boats.

The FS is one of the most stable centerboard dinghy's available. Excellent boat for a dedicated learner. But not really a cruise machine for disinterested passengers.

One real annoyance ... the halyard winch setup is a complete PITA.


----------



## Tiger-words

WoobaGooba said:


> One real annoyance ... the halyard winch setup is a complete PITA.


What about it do you dislike?


----------



## TakeFive

Tiger-words said:


> So let me get this right, he purchased in 2012 and was afraid of turtling and then,in 2013, actually turtled and damaged it and is now selling?
> Sheesh.


No. He purchased it in Oct 2012 and turtled it his first time out in the Delaware River the next week. He probably was too embarrassed to mention that in his first post, though I'm comfortable saying it now because he discloses the capsize in the ad. The factory fixed it over the winter, he moved to more protected waters for 2013 season (Nockamixon), but the stress of that first time out ruined the fun for him, so he is selling now.

The issue about his wife wanting to lounge in the boat must have become a show-stopper, because any non-ballasted boat requires constant vigilance. Prior to buying the FS he had rented a Catalina 25 a few times, and a ballasted keel boat in the 22-25' range may have been a better choice. I know he was considering that size range because he came to see Ulladh and me on our boats just to get a feel for that size range. (Neither of our boats were/are for sale.)

This is a nice guy who just got caught out in the wrong conditions. I don't know all the details because I wasn't with him (though I had offered). I did go out about 15 miles downriver from him the same day on my own boat. Forecast was 7 mph with gusts to 12, but actual recorded winds were 14-16 mph with gusts to 23. While I was on my boat I remember thinking, "uh-oh, this is not what he needs his first time out." I think he also had some inexperienced crew with him, who may not have known how to spill air quickly enough, and probably had him over-canvassed and/or failed to shift their weight fast enough.


----------



## WoobaGooba

Tiger-words said:


> What about it do you dislike?


- the halyards are wire (meat hooks).
- they often don't wrap evenly around the drums, often overriding.
- the handle is known to snap.
- the handle often gets lost (needs to be tethered somehow).
- difficult to pop the cam to release pressure.

IMO this arrangement's time is past.


----------



## Tiger-words

Thanks. While I agree that it's not state of the art, I've never had any problems or complaints with the issues you've listed, save the breaking handle - which breaks for a reason. I am known to tweak and (hopefully) improve things, but there's little there I'd change.


----------



## Tiger-words

TakeFive said:


> No. He purchased it in Oct 2012 and turtled it his first time out in the Delaware River the next week. He probably was too embarrassed to mention that in his first post, though I'm comfortable saying it now because he discloses the capsize in the ad. The factory fixed it over the winter, he moved to more protected waters for 2013 season (Nockamixon), but the stress of that first time out ruined the fun for him, so he is selling
> This is a nice guy who just got caught out in the wrong conditions. I don't know all the details because I wasn't with him (though I had offered). I did go out about 15 miles downriver from him the same day on my own boat. Forecast was 7 mph with gusts to 12, but actual recorded winds were 14-16 mph with gusts to 23. While I was on my boat I remember thinking, "uh-oh, this is not what he needs his first time out." I think he also had some inexperienced crew with him, who may not have known how to spill air quickly enough, and probably had him over-canvassed and/or failed to shift their weight fast enough.


Wow. His first post preceded the capsize but what a shame,he's traumatized by that first time. Incidentally, I sail with my 85 year old mother. She loves my boat.


----------



## WoobaGooba

Tiger-words said:


> Thanks. While I agree that it's not state of the art, I've never had any problems or complaints with the issues you've listed, save the breaking handle - which breaks for a reason. I am known to tweak and (hopefully) improve things, but there's little there I'd change.


Tying my comments back to the OP. Ever tried getting the sails off after a capsize with the boat being tossed in 4' seas?

Any number of far better ways to do this. Just one would be low stretch cordage halyards to simple cleats, cunninghams for luff tension. Toss the winch arrangement.


----------



## TakeFive

Tiger-words said:


> Wow. His first post preceded the capsize...


His first post on this thread was Sept. 2013. His capsize was Oct. 2012.


WoobaGooba said:


> ...Ever tried getting the sails off after a capsize with the boat being tossed in 4' seas?
> 
> Any number of far better ways to do this. Just one would be low stretch cordage halyards to simple cleats, cunninghams for luff tension. Toss the winch arrangement.


Clearly this boat is not designed for anything close to 4' seas. Did you go out in those conditions intentionally, or just get caught out there once?


----------



## WoobaGooba

Our fleet races in these conditions all the time. The FS will fly downwind in 15 knots plus. Baring the occasional flip .


----------



## Luf

It seems every year I get a little older. I sold my cruising sloop. It was getting to be a bit much for me to single hand. Don't want to break something now I'm a senior citizen. I took a year off. Well you know what they say about saltwater in the blood. 
The Flying Scot would seem to me to be the perfect boat for a seasoned sailor as well as a newbie with a family. 
As far as the wife goes if she isn't into sailing just take the kids. Someone who only wants to go along for the ride without helping is only going to be in the way. It doesn't matter if there is a fixed keel or its a planing boat everyone needs to be part of the crew.


----------



## Stumble

What's the budget? Frankly there are a lot better boats out here for the same money.


----------



## aloof

Highlights an advantage of sailing out of a yacht club. The spouse can sit on the YC deck, or a friends big stable (boring) boat. You go out and have fun for a couple of hours and meet up later.

I'm nuts about cruising performance boats, the GF not so much. I could trade in fun for a catamaran to please her, but I'd rather just shoot myself dead. So on crossings that might be too much fun I simply fly her to the next port. Works perfectly. she loves it, I love it. No tension. Cheaper, by far, than a comfy condomaran or furniture-wagon monohull.


----------



## Luf

Stumble said:


> What's the budget? Frankly there are a lot better boats out here for the same money.


and what are these better boats?


----------



## nolatom

Did we ever hear back from OP? That was back in 2013, gang, so maybe he got enough experience to quell his fear that the Scot was too "hot" and skittish for him, and he should have gone with a keel boat instead.

Scots, with all the technology of the late '50s, are definitely *not* skittish, at least as centerboarders go.

I'm trying to think of another centerboard boat that size that would have taken the abuse of being a club and lesson boat for 50 years without getting destroyed, or getting their mastheads stuck in the mud much more often than the Scots. 

High Performance? Yeah, lots of better boats. Medium performance and durability? Not many.


----------



## Stumble

Luf said:


> and what are these better boats?


Again at what budget, and what's the purpose? If you are looking for a new boat, then a new Scott runs about $26-28,000 ready to sail on a trailer. I have sailed all the boats below (plus the Scott) in over 25kn and have more detailed reviews on them if you want.

The GYA (Gulf Yachting Association) is in the process of replacing our fleet of Scotts and I have been part of that process for three years. The Scott has had its day and it has been a wonderful boat for more than half a century, but it's old and the design is tired. The boats below are just a selection of the designed that have been considered for the GYA.

For our purposes the decision will be between the VX and the Viper, but our criteria are a little different than everyone's. We want a more performance leaning boat, and one that has a one design class. So just because those are what we are considering doesn't mean they would be right for everyone.

That being said, there are a lot of major issues with the Scott. The most critical of which is that it cannot self rescue. If it broaches (and it happens reasonably often) the boat is incapable of making it back to dock on its own. The cockpit fills and while it remains floating with about 3" of deck above the water, it will need a tow in. A couple of times a year we have to send out rescue boats to save people and tow them in, then lift the boat out of the water on our hoist. All of the boats below are capable of self rescue, meaning that in the event of broaching they will drain the water from the cockpit.

VX One - a little more ~$32,000 but vastly superior boat handeling, speed, ease of sailing, trailering and unlike the Scott can self rescue.

Viper 640 - a much bigger boat, more expensive at ~$35,000 new, but there are very good used boats in the $20,000 range. Faster, more stable, safer, can self rescue, easier to sail, much more capable...

Topaz Omega - smaller, lighter, roto molded but only $8,000 new. It's performance is lackluster, but is very stable. More of a V15 replacement than a Scott.

Seascape 18 - $25,000 a small keel boat, real cabin, sails well, spreader less rig is rock solid, all around very impressive. A little heavier than the Scott, but not much more so.

K6 - ~$27,000 same leingth, much narrower. Unlike the Scott is relies on ballast instead of form stability so it gives up room. But it's easy to sail, comfortable to be on and an all round interesting boat.

RS Venture - $18,000 very similar to the Scott in performance (ie slow) at a fraction the price, and much more comfortable to be in. I am not a fan of the centerboard trunk, but all in all a pretty reasonable boat, if a little bland 'just a boat' feel.

I am sure I can come up with more. The reality is that the Scott was designed in the 40's and it shows. It was a great boat in its day, but in today's world they are heavy, lack stability, and the inability to self rescue should be considered unacceptable in a modern boat. The rig is also notoriously brittle, and it isn't unusual to see broken Scott booms littering a race course.

much like with classic cars it's great to think back on them with fondness, but who really wants a 1950 ford pickup for daily driving?


----------



## okawbow

Flying Scott's are fun to sail and stable for centerboard boats. However, if you just want to sail off the dock and take it easy, no racing; then a small keel boat will feel more solid and safe to you and the family. 

I like the older full keel boats myself. My Bristol 19 goes just fine in light air, and I'm just beginning to enjoy myself when the wind picks up enough to send the dingy sailors home. I can reef the mainsail, and have a choice of jibs to suit the wind conditions. If I want to sit back and take it easy; I can cleat the main sheet and let the boat heel all she wants in a gust without losing control or fearing a capsize. If I want to race, I can still get in the PHRF races and hare and hound low keyed races.


----------



## CC53

Just to clarify a few things about Scot's since there are those of us who still love them and they continue to serve us, and the many active racing fleets around the country, quite well. For one, they do not cost $26K-$28K. The radical racing package with all the top gear, sails, and trailer lists at $21,300 per the website. Harry, the builder, often offers Fall discounts off that. Plenty of people race with more moderately rigged boats that cost less, and there are nice used boats on the market all the time. 

As for Stumble's other points, yes the Scot is an old boat, but so are Thistle's, Lightnings, and many other classes, and they still have their uses. It makes perfect sense for GYA to look for a new boat for their races, but it doesn't mean the Scot can't continue to serve it's purpose. For many of us that means a boat that can race on Saturday, haul the family around on Sunday, and even load it up with 6 kids, dog, and crew for a comfortable sail around the lake. 

Yes, the boat is non-self bailing as are most older boats, but it is super stable, takes a lot of effort to capsize, and won't swamp if you are quick to get on the board, or get someone out to the masthead. If you're really concerned, fly a mast flotation bag and give yourself extra time to manage a capsize. We have capsizes every so often in races, and usually people get their boats right back up and keep racing. Turtles do happen occasionally, but are often on a downward leg with the chute up in gusty winds. Usually once a year for our very active fleet. Stumble has mentioned that booms break all the time in other posts, and yes, this can happen if you leave the vang tensioned around the weather mark, but this is common for many boats, and again, we see this maybe once a year out of dozens of races.

I've sailed in boats much faster than the Scot, but for our purposes, a faster boat just wouldn't work that well on our smallish lake. Put 20 faster boats on the line here as we often do with Scots, and we would have chaos on the course. I can't imagine a bunch of performance boats, with bowsprits extended flying around our tight lake. You'd be bouncing into shoreline way to quickly, and I'm sure we'd see more than a few boats impaled on the poles. The Scots give us more manageable, but still fun, racing legs where tactical sailing is what matters. Perhaps this is why so many top sailers still come to Scot regattas, and why so many of us stick with the class year in and year out. We have sailers ranging from 8 to over 90, and I just can't see this range of ages and abilities out in some of the high performance boats Stumble lists. The boat is a lot more durable than Stumble lets on as well We have many Scots racing in fleets that are 20, 30 even 50 years old. Harry races number 1 occasionally. We don't see oil canning after 2-3 years at all. I don't know if the same can be said of many these modern performance boats where durability is often sacrificed for speed. Gordon Douglass designed for durability first, and set the weight as a class minimum.

Again, I completely understand why GYA would like a faster boat for their series. Makes perfect sense. There is a place for faster boats at many clubs. But the Scot is still a more than ideal boat for many, and is certainly not as expensive to buy or maintain (just look at sail prices for some of Stumble's suggestions) as many of these newer boats.


----------



## Nancyleeny

Tiger-words said:


> Wow. His first post preceded the capsize but what a shame,he's traumatized by that first time. Incidentally, I sail with my 85 year old mother. She loves my boat.


My husband and I took a lesson at a private sailing club near us three years ago. The teacher had us in a 14 foot boat (a J boat, I think) while he went along in a motor boat, and we capsized before we got away from the beach. We then capsized again in the middle of Lake George.  I was scared because I didn't realize it wouldn't sink, but we got it back upright. The second capsize, my husband got creamed in the head with the boom, so that ended our day.

Two years later, we took the ASA 101 class at the International sailing school in Colchester, VT and had such a great experience, we were hooked. I'm still afraid to capsize, but love sailing! And I'm buying a dinghy to learn to get over that fear and improve my skills because the Solings we learned on are quite hard to capsize. 

And BTW, I wish I could find this mythical creature, a "skilled sailor" willing to go out with a newbie that I hear so much about in these parts. 

Nancy


----------



## [email protected]

I have Flying Scots with slab reefing that I use for training. They are fast enough to beat the tide most days in the DELAWARE River. The Molded benches allow for comfort and a feeling of safety. They are our starter boat and we move into more resposive boats.
The Kids LOVE Them.
Because they have a centerboard you can adjust the CLR and sail them with only the main Remember to use the jib halyard for a forestay and tension up !


----------



## jephotog

Stumble said:


> VX One - a little more ~$32,000 but vastly superior boat handeling, speed, ease of sailing, trailering and unlike the Scott can self rescue.
> 
> Viper 640 - a much bigger boat, more expensive at ~$35,000 new, but there are very good used boats in the $20,000 range. Faster, more stable, safer, can self rescue, easier to sail, much more capable...
> 
> Topaz Omega - smaller, lighter, roto molded but only $8,000 new. It's performance is lackluster, but is very stable. More of a V15 replacement than a Scott.
> 
> Seascape 18 - $25,000 a small keel boat, real cabin, sails well, spreader less rig is rock solid, all around very impressive. A little heavier than the Scott, but not much more so.
> 
> K6 - ~$27,000 same leingth, much narrower. Unlike the Scott is relies on ballast instead of form stability so it gives up room. But it's easy to sail, comfortable to be on and an all round interesting boat.
> 
> RS Venture - $18,000 very similar to the Scott in performance (ie slow) at a fraction the price, and much more comfortable to be in. I am not a fan of the centerboard trunk, but all in all a pretty reasonable boat, if a little bland 'just a boat' feel.


I just can't imagine the OP who is long gone, was thinking maybe I like sailing and chose the Flying Scot as the best boat ever built and went out and bought a brand new top of the line racing FS for $20k+. The reason he chose the FS was it along with another dozen dinghies can be had for under $3,000.

It would suck to buy a $30,000 dinghy sailor to discover the wife hates sailing.

BTW I saw this thread and had to click on it as FlyingScot is my name on another forum, and thought it was addressed to me. I recently got to sail on a flying dutchman and would like to get into dinghy racing.


----------



## Stumble

Jordan,

I was assuming new boat prices. Obviously things change substantially when you start with a budget, particularly when the budget requires you to buy local.


----------



## wfish11

The Scot is actually designed to be difficult to dump over. As the wind blows it over, the wide cockpit will start to block the wind and it will come up. You can flip one of these but you have to work at it. 

Try these steps. Don't tie off the main sheet to anything, keep it in your hand so you can react to gusts. Ease the sheet when it starts to heel too much. Ease the jib if you need more. If you get caught in a blow, reef or take down the jib. Don't go out if it is really windy, no use scaring everybody. Get used to the boat heeling, don't be afraid of it. You will definitely learn to sail with this boat. 

Your kids and wife are going to love the fact that you can just run up on a beach with the Scot. Can't do that with a keel boat. Enjoy it.


----------



## titustiger27

_The Titanic was unsinkable
_
I capsized a Paceship 12 in 2013. I don't know if I would say it was an easy boat to capsize, but it was for me and the crew I had that day (When I reflected I think there were about five things that went wrong all at the wrong time)

I now have a DC 15 and another season under my belt and I don't really feel like I was close to capsizing.

The point is I think just about everything (in boating and life) is relative. The DC is probably more tippy but I feel more comfortable in it (which isn't to say I might not still capsize this year)...

I guess you can grow and get comfortable, but I really think you are going to be more successful when you are in your comfort zone... If the original poster was not comfortable with the Flying Scott... you can tell him he shouldn't be... he probably still will be


----------



## Outerbanks

I've been sailing since I was 16 on all sorts of day sailors, some tippy performance boats and keel boats too. I currently own a '63 Scot. Yes, it has a good bit of sail area, it's pretty fast and can be exciting in a 20kt breeze. Still...loose the main sheet...don't worry about the luffing and you will get home..dry. I have a cruising sail with reef points and the boat is very mannerly, reefed, even in 20+ kt winds. Works great off the coast. Take it slow...get used to her and she'll take you where you want to go quickly or calmly. Don't give up on the Scot....it's a versatile boat. A keel boat may be more hassle, restrictive and expensive than you anticipate.


----------



## jephotog

Stumble said:


> Jordan,
> 
> I was assuming new boat prices. Obviously things change substantially when you start with a budget, particularly when the budget requires you to buy local.


I did not read the whole thread before but you were correct Greg, he did buy it new. I just assumed he picked up a used boat. It amazes me someone would spend 2010s money on a 1950s boat, unless of course they wanted to be part of local one design fleet. He could have owned a keel boat for the money he probably spent. I wonder if it is still sitting in his driveway.


----------



## Stumble

Outerbanks said:


> I've been sailing since I was 16 on all sorts of day sailors, some tippy performance boats and keel boats too. I currently own a '63 Scot. Yes, it has a good bit of sail area, it's pretty fast and can be exciting in a 20kt breeze. Still...loose the main sheet...don't worry about the luffing and you will get home..dry. I have a cruising sail with reef points and the boat is very mannerly, reefed, even in 20+ kt winds. Works great off the coast. Take it slow...get used to her and she'll take you where you want to go quickly or calmly. Don't give up on the Scot....it's a versatile boat. A keel boat may be more hassle, restrictive and expensive than you anticipate.


If you are buying whatever is local for a grand, then sure a Scott is at least a well known slug, but compared to new boats on the market, it is very long in the teeth, slow, expensive, heavy, prone to flipping, ect...

A couple of times a year we have to send a crash boat out to rescue a Scott that filled up with water for instance. None of the modern boats out there suffer from this problem, they are all self righting, and self draining. Easier to sail, more capable, and honestly more fun. The Scott was a brilliant design for its era, but it's time is past.

Boat builders and designers have learned a lot in the last 70 years. The boats of today are simply better, in almost every way.


----------



## christian.hess

thats false, sorry...

lasers, fjs, el toros, optimists, sunfish, scots, 505s, I14s, hobie 16s! the list goes on... offer the basics of dinghy sailing and racing and are still raced all around the world simply because there is no NEED to have newer "better" boats, they are highly competitive and or just day sailers or trainers...

I completely and utterly disagree that ALL new boats are better, and better built than some from the past...

*(this is not to say that new boats are bad, some are awesome!)*

they are not, and for the price...old dinghies and centerboarders and small keel boats are what get new people into the sport

you can buy a GOOD laser for less than 1k...an fj for 500, I just saw a scot for 600 on craigslist etc...Im looking into racing again and Im NOT by any means looking for something new...

NOT buying a 30k racing dinghy, if you can though go for it...many people do!

cheers


----------



## Delirious

Old thread . . . but:

Owned a Scot (owned a Thistle as well - shorter, lighter, same sail area and better on all points of sail but much less forgiving) and while they are not self rescuing they are by no means slugs or obsolete. They are well enough made that a used one is likely to be in great shape if not horribly abused. We have friends that have owned one since new - 40 some years.

My complaints with a Scot are they are wet and uncomfortable - no support for hiking and the coamings/seat backs are uncomfortable when not hiked out.


----------



## fryewe

Just started FS racing after years on a keel boat. Older boat. Not very competitive (yet?), but what a blast!!!


----------



## Outerbanks

I agree with Christian & Delirious' points. I bought a used '63 Scot for about $3500 and put about $3000 more into it over the past 6 yrs. Looks almost new and everything works well. I agree the boat can be 'wet' if the waves start rising. Yup..seats aren't plush but I haven't enjoyed a lounge chair on any daysailor. It was specifically designed not to include hiking rigs. It was intended to be a family boat plus recreational racing. Nothing extreme here. A couple of things to address the flotation issue are to install an inflatable bow bag and add 6" drain ports in the transom. New Scots come with these. One other thing...I haven't seen any open cockpit center board daysailor that is truly self righting. Keelboats, yes.


----------



## Stumble

christian.hess said:


> thats false, sorry...
> 
> lasers, fjs, el toros, optimists, sunfish, scots, 505s, I14s, hobie 16s! the list goes on... offer the basics of dinghy sailing and racing and are still raced all around the world simply because there is no NEED to have newer "better" boats, they are highly competitive and or just day sailers or trainers...
> 
> I completely and utterly disagree that ALL new boats are better, and better built than some from the past...
> 
> *(this is not to say that new boats are bad, some are awesome!)*
> 
> they are not, and for the price...old dinghies and centerboarders and small keel boats are what get new people into the sport
> 
> you can buy a GOOD laser for less than 1k...an fj for 500, I just saw a scot for 600 on craigslist etc...Im looking into racing again and Im NOT by any means looking for something new...
> 
> NOT buying a 30k racing dinghy, if you can though go for it...many people do!
> 
> cheers


Again, if you are buying cheap and local then a Scott may be a decent deal. But when you compare them side by side with new boats in the same price range it amazes me that anyone would buy them new.

Just off hand some alternatives to the Scott that is currently priced at $22,000.

Topaz Omega $8,000 
Hobie 16 $10,000
RS Venture $18,000
Seascape 18 $24,000
K-6 $25,000 
VX-1 $29,000 
Viper 640 $35,000

Heck for the price of a new Scott you could just about buy a tricked out foiling A-Class Catamaran (of course worthless for a family).

In todays market buying a new Scott is just a waste of money. UNLESS you plan on racing them in serious one design regattas, in which case you will be buying a new one every 5-7 years as the hulls soften.

Christian, read what i actually wrote. If you are buying a boat USED for a couple grand, then sure a Scott may be a reasonable buy. But this thread was about buying a NEW boat. And I would never recommend someone buy a NEW Scott... unless I really disliked them.

Just an FYI on the Scott class. The GYA which has been a huge buyer of them for the last 50 years or so Sunday voted to stop buying Scott's for inter-club racing. We are switching the the Viper 640 instead. So in the next few years expect a lot of decent quality used Scotts to flood the market.


----------



## fryewe

Stumble said:


> Just an FYI on the Scott class. The GYA which has been a huge buyer of them for the last 50 years or so Sunday voted to stop buying Scott's for inter-club racing. We are switching the the Viper 640 instead. So in the next few years expect a lot of decent quality used Scotts to flood the market.


Not quite right, Greg...but perhaps will be in the near future. The vote taken this weekend approved the Viper as the replacement boat, if (when) a decision is made to change to a modern boat for Capdeville. There was no vote to make the change.

I think that GYA will continue to sponsor FS races as a class race within their series for quite a long while. Probably not for Lipton Regatta, but simply as just another class among the classes that race at the GYA regattas.


----------



## TakeFive

Stumble said:


> ... But this thread was about buying a NEW boat. And I would never recommend someone buy a NEW Scott... unless I really disliked them...


Actually this is another inaccurate statement. OP's boat was a factory refurb, not a new boat. He paid much less than $22,000 and it included the trailer.

But don't let me stop your rant. What do facts matter?


----------



## christian.hess

stumble its just a differing opinion from yours...I have no affiliation or want to buy new boats...I do however fully know the beauty of buying a used "old" boat, making it new and having just as much fun as with a new racing boat...

I know that from experience and also from teaching on these boats...

some old boats are just a blast...I mean go hop on an i14 get some new sails for it, pole, spinny and some hardware for the trapeze gear and guess what you are flying just on like new boats...and for a fraction of the price...

for club racing its hard t bet 405, or 505s, FJS? COME ON! whats boring or wrong with them...?

all Im saying is there are other options outt there...new I wouldnt doubt buying a moth, or fx boat, or one of the new vanguards or something...crap we got isaf reps hunting us down at the club back home trying to sell us fx boats all the time

but to change from a laser, fj, hobie, and optimist national team to an all new boat series team would mean around a 250k investment! whereas updating the current fleet is just a a matter of buying new sails, foils and such

easy and fast and just as fun...

just saying, if this thread was solely about buying a new racing dinghy fine...if its not then there are many boats out there to chose from...and JUST AS FUN AND FAST

cheers

I keep saying fx...the sales rep guys were RS...cheers


----------



## Quickstep192

fryewe said:


> Just started FS racing after years on a keel boat. Older boat. Not very competitive (yet?), but what a blast!!!


If I'm being too personal here, just ignore me! I'm wondering how old you are. I'm thinking about getting back into racing in a Flying Scot fleet nearby, but I'm wondering if I'm too old to race on a non-keelboat.


----------



## fryewe

Quickstep192 said:


> If I'm being too personal here, just ignore me! I'm wondering how old you are. I'm thinking about getting back into racing in a Flying Scot fleet nearby, but I'm wondering if I'm too old to race on a non-keelboat.


A pretty fit three score and seven...

The knees ache a bit after a couple of races as the foredeck hand, and getting pinned between the vang and the foredeck on one occasion (my fault...I was trying to correct a mistake with the pole and didn't move to port fast enough) have been a bit taxing.

We have no skippers or crew under 60 on our FS racing team.

Go for it!!!


----------



## Stumble

Quickstep192 said:


> If I'm being too personal here, just ignore me! I'm wondering how old you are. I'm thinking about getting back into racing in a Flying Scot fleet nearby, but I'm wondering if I'm too old to race on a non-keelboat.


If I remember right the oldest guy sailing in the A Cat Worlds this week is 90.


----------



## christian.hess

thouht Id add to the discussion, I found a race worthy flying scott with full suit of racing sails and new trailer for $3000, so just saying guys....

you DONT have to buy new

also some some race worthy sunfish and other older dinghies...if you search around you find some great deals

Im currently dabbling in hobie racing again(that used to be my thing back home on H16) however Im lusting after some solo hobe cat racing a la hobie 14 turbo

there is one for sale for a mere $600...its just dirty...go figure, oh and with trailer...

new sails and rigging, paint and trampoline will set me back maybe $1500 so for 2k at the most I have a race worthy flying machine...

cant beat hobies for fast fun...racing them is even more fun...

cheers

ps. also not to disagree with stumble anymore but I too wouldnt buy a NEW flying scot unless I had the money lying around and or it was worth it for 1 design racing at a local proliferous fleet...say if there were 20 of them at a local lake and getting a new one meant for exciting local racing I wouldnt doubt it...its apples to oranges out there when simply comparing a new boat to an old one...WHAT DO YOU WANT OR NEED is the real question...


----------



## CC53

Whatever Stumble. I'm one of those idiots who bought a new Scot in the not-so distant past, after racing another much, much older Scot for years. I must be such a numbskull for going out there and thinking I'm having a good time racing with such an ignorant bunch of luddites who must not really understand what sailing fun is all about. I guess the 20-30 or so boats we see each weekend filled with everyone from 12 year olds to several pushing 80 and even 90 are miserable because we're not in some new performance boat, and I guess all the sailors at the regional regattas that I travel to are shmucks for sailing in such an old outdated boat when we could be zipping around in the latest gee whiz screamer. I guess that would go for all those dolts in Lightnings, Buccaneers, Albacores, and all those other useless old boats that should be sent to the fiberglass recycling center. Man, we must be such losers for liking a bit of comfort and stability at the expense of speed, for thinking a boat that can fit the whole family and still race might be a nice compromise, that not having to dance around the boat with every shift might make sailing all day a little more fun, that a boat that you can sail just about til you can't walk anymore might actually be a bit more fun than teetering on a balance beam all day, and that there are plenty of old boats that will continue to serve a need till many of us are long gone. 

Oh, and let's see how the Viper's do after 10-15 years. Any glass racing dinghy loses stiffness over time, and the Scot is no different, but it certainly isn't worse than any other, and is probably much better than a lot. There are plenty of 3000 series boats (now in the 6000's) that do just fine in many regattas, and some very old Scot's are still out there being competitive. I seriously doubt you're going to see Viper's or similar performance boats hold up nearly as well. 

As far as buying new, recent vintage Scot's hold their value pretty well, so if you want a relatively new boat to compete in a local fleet, of which there are many, it can certainly make sense to buy new since updating an older boat with better gear can end up costing nearly as much. We have many top quality sailors in our fleet, including some national champions who have sailed many other boats, some much faster than a Scot, but they keep coming back to the Scot because of the tight one class competition and close tactical racing that ends up being just as fun for many of us.


----------



## Stumble

Cc53,

Did you jump in just hoping to be offended? If you actually read what I wrote instead of just taking offense I think you would see that nowhere did I call you stupid, ignorant, or whatever other thin skinned nonsense you spouted. What I actually said is...

"In todays market buying a new Scott is just a waste of money. UNLESS you plan on racing them in serious one design regattas, in which case you will be buying a new one every 5-7 years as the hulls soften. "

Since you fit the UNLESS I spelled out, I don't see what your objection is. Unless you are seriously arguing that no major changes in boat design have occurred in the last sixty years since the Scott was designed. 

As for how the Vipers are holding up, a hull from the second year of production back in 1998 or so finished second at the 2014 North Americans. So at least so far 17 year old boats are still highly competitive in major regattas.


----------



## barnacle billy

I raced a Flying Scot for many years - as a matter of fact, I learned how to sail on a Scot. Never tipped it over. Very stable, in my opinion for a day sailor. The brochure even exemplifies how stable it is and how hard it is to tip over. There are a lot of day sailors that are much more tender or accelerate quicker, so actually the Scot is a good boat to learn on. You just have to get the handle on dumping the mainsail in a gust and hauling the sheet back in after the gust passes and continue on your way. I should also say that for rigging, the Scot is pretty simple in comparison to other day sailors that are used for racing. Perhaps the other extreme is the Star Boat of which I have also raced. But, for day sailing with the family and not racing, the Scot is great, simple and straight forward.


----------



## captainbill

You did not buy the wrong boat. I have sailed flying Scots as well as taught sailing in them for over 17 years and have not turned one over yet. Most of those I have seen turn over were being sailed in 20 knot plus winds or with a few exceptions lesser wind with crew on the down wind side and not letting the main and jib out during gusts. Stick with the boat, get some experience and then decide in a year or two if you want to get rid of it. Expect that if your wife gets into sailing she will require a bigger boat. Keep the Scot though.


----------



## TakeFive

captainbill said:


> You did not buy the wrong boat. I have sailed flying Scots as well as taught sailing in them for over 17 years and have not turned one over yet. Most of those I have seen turn over were being sailed in 20 knot plus winds or with a few exceptions lesser wind with crew on the down wind side and not letting the main and jib out during gusts. Stick with the boat, get some experience and then decide in a year or two if you want to get rid of it. Expect that if your wife gets into sailing she will require a bigger boat. Keep the Scot though.


Original post was over two years ago. He did capsize it. It killed the dream for him. He put the boat up for sale.

OP has been gone for over two years. He is not going to hear any of your advice. I suggest that you not waste your time.


----------



## tellemark32

Simple answer: No, you made a great choice! Perfect starter boat. Matter of fact, perfect boat for many folks forever. Youngsters, oldsters and "in-betweensters". Safe, stable, superbly designed, floats when swamped. 

I started on an Uffa Fox designed O'Day Javelin. My suggestion is to stick with it. Sail in light to moderate winds at first until you understand how to use the mainsheet and body weight to keep her on her feet. My Javelin required constant play of the mainsheet in heavy breezes. It's all about anticipation. You have to keep your eyes peeled to windward to watch for the dark patches that indicate gusts. 

Join the Flying Scot forums. Ask tons of questions. Try to meet sailors in or near your area and go sailing with them. Lots to learn and these folks really know their boats. Well designed and safe for all ages. Start out in lighter breezes. As you progress go out in slightly stronger breezes. When you build confidence, go out in stronger breezes. It's a progressive thing. Stick with it and I'll bet you'll love your Scot after a few months.


----------



## zedboy

Ok I know the thread is old and too bad about the OP but I gotta share anyhow:

This summer we were visiting my parents in DC and I had a yen to go rent a boat at Washington Sailing Marina like we used to when I was a kid. For some reason the big kids (10 & 8) weren't interested but my 6-year-old was raring to go and so we dragged Grampa along (good thing too because they won't let single-handers with kids out of the basin).

I told my kid, "this boat is called a Flying Scot because it can fly" but we started off with just enough wind to ghost along (I remember always having light light winds in DC in the summer). He liked steering, but his eyes really opened when we got out in the river and the wind picked up later in the afternoon! It kept my dad and I on our toes! Forgot how much work that long boom and 3:1 mainsheet make. Got stuck in the shallow mud, but board up and off no problem. Only embarrassment was we couldn't get back up the narrow channel to the marina because the wind had shifted and it was dead to weather (and our rudder was fouled so we weren't pointing well). The marina guys came out and towed us in.

Our last boat was a Siren 17 which weighs about the same as an FS but has 50 feet less sail area, and I found it plenty lively. I think the FS has more sail area than my old boat - which weighed around 3000 lbs (!)

Since then my kid keeps talking about how we sailed a boat that really flies and we should get one like that - except with a motor!


----------



## mf70

Even if it doesn't have reef points (much easier to use than roller reefing for a mainsail), they can be inserted by any sailmaker for nominal cost. Reducing sail when needed (and recongnizing when that point is) are important parts of sailing.

That O'Day 22 will heel much more than the Flying Scott. My wife and I had a lot of CB experience, but we were shocked by the heeling angles of the Columbia 24 when we made the switch to a keel boat.

Ultimately, the decision is yours, of course. There's no shame in not picking the perfect boat on the first try, as Ward H pointed out.


----------



## barnacle billy

The Scot has just short of 190 sq ft of sail area. I sailed on hull 818 and the experience was wonderful. I have three Scots for sale now, one pretty new, the others older. One person talked about the hulls getting soft with age. Maybe or maybe not. These boats are not flimsy and around here we call them Flying Sidewalks because they are so robust. For one design racing new is always best, but not necessary. There is a one design fleet in this neck of the woods and most are older vessels and so the fleet thrives nicely. I don't race in it - just am aware of it. But if you get a Scot, you don't have to race. I would assume there are hundreds if not thousands of them being enjoyed as a family day sailor. Sandy Douglass also designed the Highlander, which is a bit bigger and has a lot more sail area. That boat is tender. The Scot is not tender. I am sure you will enjoy the Scot and have lots of fond memories of it as I do as you look back through all the boats you have sailed when later down the road.


----------



## rossbc

Good advice in the posts above. I started sailing on little boats and went up to bigger boats as I got older. What you are experiencing is the difference between driving a convertible sports car and a large truck. One is nippy, maneuverable and zips around with little effort. The other appears slow and cumbersome and it takes a lot to get it going. Never be afraid to let the mainsheet go. Also, the jib - as small as that sail is, the slot between the main and the jib easily provides 50% of your drive - you can go sailing on a windy day and not even bother with the jib - that will slow things down and make life more manageable. That said, sailing a small dinghy really sharpens your skills and you will find that if and when you get back to larger boats, your are able to get them going more easily.


----------



## WoobaGooba

barnacle billy said:


> The Scot has just short of 190 sq ft of sail area. I sailed on hull 818 and the experience was wonderful. I have three Scots for sale now, one pretty new, the others older. One person talked about the hulls getting soft with age. Maybe or maybe not. These boats are not flimsy and around here we call them Flying Sidewalks because they are so robust. For one design racing new is always best, but not necessary.


I've probably done several 100 laps around the track in a Scot. Mostly in open water.

The older boats do get soft. All things being equal, the newer boats are faster. And the wire / winch halyard system needs to go ... meat hooks, wire balls, handles to lose or break, dangerous in capsize situations.


----------



## jovalkh

jboat73 said:


> This has been my first season with a Flying Scot. I think I may have bought the wrong boat.
> 
> I'm a novice sailor. I've taken the ASA 101 class last spring and chartered several times. Those were on things like a Capri 22, O'Day 25, Catalina 25. I do not have years of experience.
> 
> I bought a Flying Scot based on the reputation as stable and good family boats. I did not buy it to race.
> 
> My Scot has been very responsive - it sails in light wind and reacts quickly to my changes. I now think it may be too responsive for my skill level. I'm nervous that if I don't anticipate what's going to happen, I could get into trouble easily.
> 
> I don't want the risk of capsizing. Of course it is possible in any boat, but I want something where the risk is very small. I now realize that the Scot has a higher risk of capsizing than something with a fixed keel. I think that is basic boat design that I didn't appreciate enough.
> 
> My wife has no sailing experience and is looking for a lounging experience (newspaper, cold drink etc). I have two kids (6 and 9) that have loved sailing, love the water. My wife is not interested in ending up in the water. My kids would probably say they'd like to fall off, but I think they'd actually get scared and it could put them off sailing.
> 
> I have a wet slip on a lake, so the advantage of being able to trailer a Scot are not important to me.
> 
> I want to emphasize that my interactions with Flying Scot Inc have been great. Also, other Scot sailors have been extremely nice and helpful. I crewed in a race once and it was a blast.
> 
> I think my issue is that I didn't match the pros/cons of the Scot with my personal menu of desires. I think I bought a boat that is great for an experienced sailor, or someone that is fine with some capsizes.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Do you agree that a slightly larger fixed keel boat (like a Capri 22) would be better suited for me? I expect it won't be as resopnsive in light winds, but it would be more stable in moderate or heavy winds. I'm not interested in overnighting, so the down-below area isn't important (part of the reason the Scot was attractive). I wanted/want a bigger cockpit area.
> 
> I now have a better appreciation for what people say about buying a boat - that is is a very personal decision and differnt for everyone!
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I know what you are looking for, a Catalina 18. With a weighted fin keel, the ability to sleep on it and to put a concealed portapotty, it has everything you are looking for. Using PVC pipe bent between between the two interior support poles and fastened by nylon ties, I was able to create a private porta potty private closet. Also, it has full electrics with deep cycle battery, so it will go all night at anchor in that secluded spot. A good solar panel will recharge the battery during the day. A great family boat, that two can sleep comfortably in, or get down under weather. Very predictable and enjoyable sailing manners. I had a spinnaker, and roller furling foresail. A sweetheart of a boat. I moved and had to sell, but thinking about getting another. With an electric bilge, it has most features of a big boat, but only 18 feet long. Try one, you will like it.


----------

