# Best small boat for cruising the Bahamas?



## krisscross

What in your opinion is the best small (up to 30 feet) boat for cruising the Bahamas? Using Georgia or Florida as a home port, and sailing solo. I'm a minimalist in general but I do want to also carry my kayak and my SUP board. What about twin keeled boats like Westerly Centaur? Your input will be greatly appreciated.


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## night0wl

For a solo, thats a decent amount of space to get by. As with all boats, make sure your rigging, engine, and systems are in good shape and you'll have a fine time. In many parts of the bahamas, a 5' draft can be carried...which for most 30' boats is plenty for good tracking


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## Frogwatch

I own the best small boat for cruising the Bahamas. A 1981 8.5 meter (28') S2 with shoal draft of 3'10". Original 7 hp 1GM Yanmar replaced with a 13 hp 2GM.
Internal ballast so when (not if) you hit bottom you never have to worry about keel bolts. She has all controls led to cockpit and I have single handed her a lot. Old enough that if she somehow gets destroyed, it isn't a significant loss.

AND........and the most significant thing, she is now registered in the bahamas and is in Marsh Harbor, Abacos.

Now, the down side. I am currently unable to use her.


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## kwaltersmi

Unlike some folks here, I enjoy these "best boat for..." threads, but we really need a few details about your needs, such as budget, to give you a good answer. How much can you spend? What are your top three priorities for a boat (for example: 1) storage 2) sailing performance 3) inboard motor). From your post, I'm going to assume you're thinking of a solo adventure.

Here's a few to consider if you're want shallow draft to really explore and gunkhole in the Bahamas, until we can narrow it down with a budget:

Gemini m105c - Popular, relatively affordable, simple shallow draft cat

Island Packet 26 - The original IP with a shallow draft has now become somewhat of pocket cruiser bargain

Seaward 26RK - Beachable little cruiser with vertically lifting keel and rudder

And how about this cool cat, the Tiki 30 (Wharram desgin) from Boatsmith - She looks perfect for an adventurous romp through the Bahamas.


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## denverd0n

For the Bahamas, in general, the shallower the draft the better.


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## krisscross

I would like to keep the cost of the boat to less than $15K, not counting another 5K for extra gear I may need. I was seriously thinking of a Cape Dory 25 with an outboard - with 3' draft it seems ideal for Bahamas but I'm not sure if this is 'enough boat' for this purpose. Crossing Gulf Stream can be intimidating. 
As to priorities, it is safety and enough storage for a 1-2 month long trip.


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## krisscross

What do you folks think about centerboarders like Tartan 27 for this kind of adventure?


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## night0wl

krisscross said:


> I would like to keep the cost of the boat to less than $15K, not counting another 5K for extra gear I may need. I was seriously thinking of a Cape Dory 25 with an outboard - with 3' draft it seems ideal for Bahamas but I'm not sure if this is 'enough boat' for this purpose. Crossing Gulf Stream can be intimidating.
> As to priorities, it is safety and enough storage for a 1-2 month long trip.


Even though you gain space, I'd avoid an outboard for "long-distance"ish cruising. Choppy seas can result in cavitation, and if you're going Bahamas, expect to spend a lot of time in shallow waters with choppy seas (ie, Bahamas banks).

With your budget and desired cruising grounds, any decent production built boat in the 30 foot range would be a good choice. Catalina 30s are a dime a dozen it seems!!!


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## outbound

had a CD 25. cute little boat but using outboard as primary engine not a great idea in MO. Beyond caviation with engine in well used to lose power when engine intakewent under water in a seaway. Dana 24 would take you anywhere in comfort and safety but may need to save a bit.


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## SkywalkerII

Alert. Biased response.

I own a 1966 Tartan 27. Three foot two inch draft with board up. Very stable, easy motion in a seaway, can handle almost anything you will encounter. Sail great even with he board up. And they look good.

If you find one in pretty good shape, you won't be disappointed. Check out the Tartan 27 site for help and suggestions.

Skywalker
T27 249


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## blowinstink

krisscross said:


> I would like to keep the cost of the boat to less than $15K, not counting another 5K for extra gear I may need. I was seriously thinking of a Cape Dory 25 with an outboard - with 3' draft it seems ideal for Bahamas but I'm not sure if this is 'enough boat' for this purpose. Crossing Gulf Stream can be intimidating.
> As to priorities, it is safety and enough storage for a 1-2 month long trip.


You know there are 2 CD25's right? The 25D is a very different boat -- not just the diesel part. I've not heard the "other" 25 referred to as a cruiser. The 25D is sort of a cult boat (go figure) and it comes at a premium. You'll probably find that you can buy a better CD27 or 28 for the same price or less than a CD25D. We saw plenty of small Cape Dorys in the Abacos and I am sure they'll take all through the Bahamas. There was a very nice 27 or 28 on ebay for 15K this week (might still be there) and I have seen nice ones sell occasionally sell for $10K Make sure you check out the board at capedory.org. All in all, I think they're a lot of boat for the money (but then I am kinda biased)


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## krisscross

Thanks guys... what you are saying is kind of confirming my gut instincts (inboard vs outboard, CD 25D vs 25)... I just have this really cheap streak in me that I have to battle all the time... 
I definitely don't want to buy a project boat with all sorts of potential problems. I would like to buy a boat from a good sailor who took good care of his boat and is honest about the good, the bad, and the ugly...
Do you think CD 26D, 27 or 28 are better for my adventure than CD25D? I have been watching their prices and you are right, sometimes these bigger boats are cheaper (all other things like gear and condition being equal) than 25D.
I like the centerboard idea but heard lots of bad things about them (jamming, noise, hard to fix broken gear).


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## SkywalkerII

The T 27 centerboard has a pivot pin and uses a line on a pulley to raise and lower. It weighs about 115 pounds. I've jammed it a couple of times when I've run aground in rocks/pebbles. A screw driver pries them out. The pulley system is simple and I've never had an issue. At certain positions, I get a little bump occasionally, usually on a reach. the pin should be inspected for wear. My is still solid. 

This from a 47 year old boat.

The 27 was built during the CCA era and had to sail without the board by rule. You never have to use it. But it adds a lot to the balance of the helm. She'll track forever without touching the tiller when properly trimmed.


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## krisscross

I have not considered catamarans as they tend to be expensive or when they are cheap they don't seem at all seaworthy.
I'm also really partial to keeping the ballast to displacement ratio at at least 35%.


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## Shinook

krisscross said:


> I would like to keep the cost of the boat to less than $15K, not counting another 5K for extra gear I may need. I was seriously thinking of a Cape Dory 25 with an outboard - with 3' draft it seems ideal for Bahamas but I'm not sure if this is 'enough boat' for this purpose. Crossing Gulf Stream can be intimidating.
> As to priorities, it is safety and enough storage for a 1-2 month long trip.


We looked at a 25 and determined it was too small. The benefit is, it can easily be trailered, so you can take it down to FL and push off there, without having to putter down the ICW or go offshore down the NC/GA/FL coast. The downside is, the interior is really cramped and I'm not entirely sure it'd be comfortable on a trip like that. I'd go see if you can find one, crawl around inside and think about how long you'd want to be living down there. For me, "crawling" was a pretty accurate description (I'm 6'1). That's my preference, you may find it more comfortable depending on your expectations and requirements.

There is, of course, the 25D, however you'll find they are selling for substantially more than the 25, and in some cases 27s and 28s. They are good boats and TBH I like the interior layout better than the larger Cape Dory's, but you can find a 27 or 28 for cheaper and have money left over for maintenance and upgrades. They are both great boats and capable of making pretty much taking you wherever you want to go safely. The Cape Dory Owners Association is a great site with a lot of good resources, if you are looking at CDs. You may find used ones listed there, as well.

Along the same lines as the CD27, we also kept our eyes out for Bristol 27s and Albin Vegas. The CD27 sometimes demands a higher price, in what I've seen, but either of those boats are laid out similarly and met our needs as well. We were also looking for Flicka 20s, but they never showed up in our price range.


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## krisscross

Thanks, Skywalker. Good info. Is that a screwdriver job after you haul it out or on a dive?
I have also heard about bent centerboards due to grounding. Is your cb beefy enough not to have that problem?


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## travlin-easy

Save yourself some grief, go up a few feet, and look closely at the Morgan 33 Out Island. This particular boat was designed for exactly what you're looking for. It's roomy, only draws 4-feet, sails well, can handle the Gulf Stream, and it's easily single handed. If you search around, you'll find one in your price range that's in good condition.

Good Luck on whatever you decide upon,

Gary


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## krisscross

Good points, Shinook. I'm 5'9 and not claustrophobic. I have a 20 foot Mirage 5.5 on which I sail a week at a time on Pamlico Sound, so CD 25 would be a big step up, but the expected trip duration is much longer and I need a lot more gear and supplies.


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## krisscross

Hi Gary, yes I thought about bigger boats like OI33 or Tartan 34C, but they really are much bigger boats than I'm used to handling. A lot more sail, that's for sure.


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## Shinook

krisscross said:


> Good points, Shinook. I'm 5'9 and not claustrophobic. I have a 20 foot Mirage 5.5 on which I sail a week at a time on Pamlico Sound, so CD 25 would be a big step up, but the expected trip duration is much longer and I need a lot more gear and supplies.


The general consensus on the CD25 is that it's not as "offshore capable" as some of the other Cape Dory models. It's actually a design that was manufactured for a while by another manufacturer, before Cape Dory acquired the molds. I don't know the whole story, you can look into it, if you are interested.

I'm not sure I believe the skepticism, though. I've read stories of a few making fairly substantial passages safely. That said, you can definitely tell a difference in the 25 vs other CD boats, not that the 25 is less of a boat, it was just built with a different goal in mind. They are capable of doing whatever you want with them, but unless you specifically want to trailer the boat, I'd try to focus on one of the larger models which can often be had for a small sum more. In my case, our CD27 was cheaper than the CD25 we looked at, although she needed a lot more work.

For the price you listed, I think you could easily find a CD27 or CD28 that's basically ready to kick off and go wherever you want. Be aware that models prior to 1977 tend to be cheaper by a fair amount, as the interiors on both models tend to be a little more spartan and lack a few small features that 1978 and newer models had. None of them are that big of a deal, though. I fairly regularly see CD27s and CD28s for sale in Florida for decent prices (and some not so decent).


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## krisscross

Thanks for the tips, Shinook. I tend to agree that CD25 is a rather seaworthy design. I see them on Pamlico Sound quite often. The biggest complain I hear from their owners is space. I have at least 2 years to make up my mind, find, and prepare my boat for this trip. But looking for a good deal is always easier when you know exactly what to look for. CD28 is a sweet boat, but they are hard to find in a decent shape and with the right gear in my price range.


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## krisscross

I don't mind doing the regular maintenance/repair work, but some repairs and gear cost a lot of money, like engine work or bimini. Usually it seems cheaper to find a boat that already has the stuff you need in decent condition then to add it yourself.


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## Shinook

krisscross said:


> Thanks for the tips, Shinook. I tend to agree that CD25 is a rather seaworthy design. I see them on Pamlico Sound quite often. The biggest complain I hear from their owners is space. I have at least 2 years to make up my mind, find, and prepare my boat for this trip. But looking for a good deal is always easier when you know exactly what to look for. CD28 is a sweet boat, but they are hard to find in a decent shape and with the right gear in my price range.


Keep an eye out, watch Craigslist via searchtempest.com, along with ebay and the CDSOA site. Good deals show up, they usually don't last long, though. The biggest problem you'll have is finding one in your area, in my experience anyway. I've seen more than a few nice looking (pictures, anyway) 27s and 28s going for well below your price range just in FL.

They do pop up on the NC coast, though. Just not as frequently as further north or in FL. Just be patient, if it's what you really want.


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## swampcreek

We chartered a 37' Tayana Cutter in Abaco taking ASA lessons in 2009 and had a great time, that size was a pleasure to sail down there given the trade winds we usually had. Our dream is to cruise full time one day, if this happens it will probably require us to make one more move and buy a multi-hull. Multi's just seem the way to go down there, being cheap and long distance sailing might place one in a bad position, almost everytime I cheap out I end up regretting it and actually spend more correcting my initial move, your experience may differ. Last year when we were in Eleuthera we saw a large (40+) sailboat with a broken mast being towed in, I often wonder what the story was behind that.

BTW my avitar is me sailing that Tayana in the Sea Of Abaco...


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## krisscross

Another question specific to cruising in the Bahamas. Does it make a big difference if the boat draws 3.5 or 4 feet? Does it make finding good anchorage that much easier? I have heard something to that effect once or twice from sailors on bigger boats.


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## Shinook

swampcreek said:


> Last year when we were in Eleuthera we saw a large (40+) sailboat with a broken mast being towed in, I often wonder what the story was behind that.


Probably nothing to do with the price of the boat...


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## krisscross

Interesting point, Swampcreek... yeah, I had to make a few expensive corrections to my 'cheap' moves, but most of the time they tend to work just fine. And I really don't have the money for those big boats, nor experience to sail them safely by myself when the weather turns ugly. My planned trip to Bahamas is a prelude to possibly a retirement on a boat in a few more years, but I realize that my 'ultimate' boat may be different than the boat I'm thinking about now.


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## utchuckd

Browse thru this list:

Atom Voyages - Good Old Boats List

Most are full or modified keel, which in general will be shallower draft.

You'll get different responses on the twin keel, but I looked at a Centaur and may have pulled the trigger but they already had a deal in the works. Personally I like the concept in skinny water, shallow draft, pull it up close to shore and 'beach it' if you want. They can be found for a lot better money than a lot of pocket cruisers (generalization based on age, condition, etc).


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## krisscross

Frogwatch said:


> I own the best small boat for cruising the Bahamas. A 1981 8.5 meter (28') S2 with shoal draft of 3'10". Original 7 hp 1GM Yanmar replaced with a 13 hp 2GM.
> Internal ballast so when (not if) you hit bottom you never have to worry about keel bolts. She has all controls led to cockpit and I have single handed her a lot. Old enough that if she somehow gets destroyed, it isn't a significant loss.


I remember looking at one of those - seemed like a really solid boat. Any concerns regarding the rather exposed spade rudder?


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## swampcreek

krisscross said:


> Interesting point, Swampcreek... yeah, I had to make a few expensive corrections to my 'cheap' moves, but most of the time they tend to work just fine. And I really don't have the money for those big boats, nor experience to sail them safely by myself when the weather turns ugly. My planned trip to Bahamas is a prelude to possibly a retirement on a boat in a few more years, but I realize that my 'ultimate' boat may be different than the boat I'm thinking about now.


We have 11 or 12 years to decide...unless we hit the lottery which we rarely play or society breaks down and we have to make a run for it. :laugher


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## krisscross

kwaltersmi said:


> Island Packet 26 - The original IP with a shallow draft has now become somewhat of pocket cruiser bargain
> 
> Seaward 26RK - Beachable little cruiser with vertically lifting keel and rudder


IP26 is one of the boats I would definitely consider. I don't know much about the other one and don't see them often on the water.


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## krisscross

swampcreek said:


> We have 11 or 12 years to decide...unless we hit the lottery which we rarely play or society breaks down and we have to make a run for it. :laugher


I hear you... 
I figure that if I sell most of the stuff I have now, I might be able to buy one of those nice floating 'retirement condos' when the time comes for me to retire.


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## Faster

Some to consider:

shoal draft Boats For Sale


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## Jeff_H

SkywalkerII said:


> The T 27 centerboard has a pivot pin and uses a line on a pulley to raise and lower. It weighs about 115 pounds. I've jammed it a couple of times when I've run aground in rocks/pebbles. A screw driver pries them out. The pulley system is simple and I've never had an issue. At certain positions, I get a little bump occasionally, usually on a reach. the pin should be inspected for wear. My is still solid.
> 
> This from a 47 year old boat.
> 
> The 27 was built during the CCA era and had to sail without the board by rule. You never have to use it. But it adds a lot to the balance of the helm. She'll track forever without touching the tiller when properly trimmed.


While the Tartan 27 would be very high on my list as great small cruiser for the Bahamas, there are a number of mistakes or misleading comments in the above. The Tartan 27 was designed during the period when the CCA rule was around, but one of the reasons that makes it such a nice design is that it was not designed to the CCA rule, but was designed to the MORC rule. Neither the CCA or the MORC rule forbid use of the centerboard and so when raced under either rule, the board was lowered upwind and on a reach but was raised on a run for speed.
Respectfully,
Jeff


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## SkywalkerII

I'm pretty sure the 1960 design date is before MORC rule. I have the original paperwork listing it's CCA rating.

My point was the boat sails well without use of the board, better with it. 

Btw, prying a few rocks out is an in water job, no problemo.


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## SkywalkerII

Found this.

Learn something new every day.

Welcome to the MORC Racing website.* The Midget Ocean Racing Club was founded in 1954 in New York.* Its primary mission was to promote offshore racing and cruising of small boats.* The original MORC Rule was a modified version of the existing CCA Rule to accommodate small boats.* At that time many small boats were excluded from participating in offshore races.* The first boat designed to the MORC rule was a modified 16 foot Bullseye.* Over the years, the MORC rule evolved resulting in some very successful boats in the 25-34' range.* These boats continue to be potent PHRF or IRC contenders.


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## chef2sail

SkywalkerII said:


> The T 27 centerboard has a pivot pin and uses a line on a pulley to raise and lower. It weighs about 115 pounds. I've jammed it a couple of times when I've run aground in rocks/pebbles. A screw driver pries them out. The pulley system is simple and I've never had an issue. At certain positions, I get a little bump occasionally, usually on a reach. the pin should be inspected for wear. My is still solid.
> 
> This from a 47 year old boat.
> 
> The 27 was built during the CCA era and had to sail without the board by rule. You never have to use it. But it adds a lot to the balance of the helm. She'll track forever without touching the tiller when properly trimmed.


Centerboard boats offer you the shoal draft you are looking for as well as windward advantages.

As a rule boats with fiberglasss center boards which are light in weight tend to rattle some as one of their characteristics. If you pick a k/c boat look for one with some weight to it. Our board needs to be winched up and works on a pivot


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## Jeff_H

SkywalkerII said:


> Found this.
> 
> Learn something new every day.
> 
> Welcome to the MORC Racing website.* The Midget Ocean Racing Club was founded in 1954 in New York.* Its primary mission was to promote offshore racing and cruising of small boats.* The original MORC Rule was a modified version of the existing CCA Rule to accommodate small boats.* At that time many small boats were excluded from participating in offshore races.* The first boat designed to the MORC rule was a modified 16 foot Bullseye.* Over the years, the MORC rule evolved resulting in some very successful boats in the 25-34' range.* These boats continue to be potent PHRF or IRC contenders.


Early on the MORC rule was merely the CCA rule with minimum accommodations requirements grafted on. That very quickly changed. As the rule began to gain popularity it was quickly decided that smaller boats intended to go offshore were less able to tolerate the extremes of the CCA. The first revision to the MORC rule, downplayed the significance of both waterline length and beam, as well as changing the rig factors so that mainsail area was slightly less disadvantaged under the MORC rule. The beam issues were solely about the fact that small boats are proportionately more beamy than bigger boats. The waterline length was about the disproportionate negative implications on seaworthiness and carrying capacity that was implicit in the design of smaller boats with short waterlines.

The result was that the MORC boats of that era remain much more useful designs in that they had nicer motions, generally better performance in a broader wind range, had better carrying capacities, and were generally more seaworthy as well. As MORC evolved, it went on to produce boats which anticipated future design trends, but ultimately lost many of the virtues of these earlier MORC designs.

Jeff


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## Rhapsody-NS27

regarding the original post,

The boats I would pick (including what I currently have)
Cape Dory 27
Bayfield 25 & 29
Bristol 27
Nor'sea 27
Bristol Channel Cutter 28
Pacific Seacraft Flicka (about 20')
Pacific Seacraft Dana 24
Albin Vega 27

These are the boats I was considering when I was looking around.


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## Capt.aaron

My 1965 Soverel 28, 3 feet board up 8 feet down, has been almost every where in the Bahamas you can go and some places they say you can't. 6 feet of head room, sleeps 3 and screws none as they say. Great little boats, you can pick 'em for a few grand and out fit them for about the same.


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## kwaltersmi

A few others to consider that _may_ be available in your budget:

Alberg 30
Pearson Triton 28
Southern Cross 28

And then there's this gem noted by Charlie Doane: Pearson Alberg 35 Real Cheap on Craigslist


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## TQA

Not real cheap esp. with a gas engine.


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## misfits

Thought I'd toss the Sabre 28 into the mix.
It's a tough little boat, has a fin keel & it draws 4'-4".


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## Frogwatch

Once in the Bahamas, you want a shorter boat as many places charge by the foot.
Getting to the Bahamas, a heavier boat is nice to avoid getting pushed around by waves.
As a frequent single hander with a shoal draft 28' boat displacement 8000 lbs, I have decided that the best boat for single handing back and forth from Bahamas to FL would be the Morgan OI33 but get one with the bigger engine.
My philosophy is "Dont worry about looks, in fact you want your boat to look old and tired to avoid looking like a prosperous "target". However, your rigging and basic systems should be in very good shape. Avoid anything complex. Use a porta-potti instead of marine head." My 28' S2 does not even have a connection for shore power. Fixing stuff in the bahamas is often difficult but MArsh HArbor does have one of the best hardware stores I have ever seen.
One advantage of a smaller boat is that when you are the smallest boat in the harbor, you attract either admiration or "you'r effin nuts" so you meet a lot of people.
An advantage of having your boat look kinda "run down" is that the locals find it easier to commiserate with you than if it looks expensive.
As far as cost of the boat, I paid the Bahamas 10% tax to get her licensed there and found that a realistic price for my 1981 S2 is only $10,000.


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## Jeff_H

I would respectfully suggest that the Morgan OI 33 would make a pretty poor choice for the Bahamas. While a decent live aboard, these boats have a terribly corky motion. The short chop on in the Gulf Stream and Banks would make them very uncomfortable for that proposed purpose. Their mediocre sailing ability means that you would spend a lot of time motoring, and fuel is very expensive in the Bahamas which would have a greater impact than docking length for most folks who anchor out in boats this size. 

My other concern with the Morgan OI 33 is that these boats were pretty badly constructed being notorious for hull to deck joint leaks, and for poorly attached hardware. (I personally helped repair a leaking hull to deck joint. and helped reinstall a cleat that was fastened to the deck with self-tapping screws.)

Jeff


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## night0wl

Rhapsody-NS27 said:


> regarding the original post,
> 
> The boats I would pick (including what I currently have)
> Cape Dory 27
> Bayfield 25 & 29
> Bristol 27
> Nor'sea 27
> Bristol Channel Cutter 28
> Pacific Seacraft Flicka (about 20')
> Pacific Seacraft Dana 24
> Albin Vega 27
> 
> These are the boats I was considering when I was looking around.


Geez, he's going to the Bahamas...not crossing the Mona Passage! All of these boats are great, but they're overkill. The toughest passage you'll be making is the Gulfstream.

I'd go for a production boat thats well kept in your price range.


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## blowinstink

night0wl said:


> Geez, he's going to the Bahamas...not crossing the Mona Passage! All of these boats are great, but they're overkill. The toughest passage you'll be making is the Gulfstream.
> 
> I'd go for a production boat thats well kept in your price range.


Those boats aren't all pricey, but I agree there is a much wider range of possibilities including many production boats (especially if you extend to 30' or so).


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## nothingshocking1

Check out Great Mysterious. This crew sailing east coast and Bahamas now on Watkins 27. This is the second trip to Bahamas. Contact them for boat information.


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## Frogwatch

About the spade rudder on the S2. Yes, it does worry me. However< have always said that unless I run aground at least once every time I go sailing, I'm not trying enough to have fun. I go aground a lot because I go places I probably shouldn't and I have owned my S2 for 21years. A few years ago when I replaced the shaft strut, I had them check the rudder for delamination and water intrusion. Solid as a rock they said. I have not yet managed to damage it in my adventures but I do have a backup plan if I have to jury rig a rudder.

I didn't know the Morgan OI33 was said to be corky. I do know about the Hull to deck joint rubrail having a tendency to come off. I had thought the OIs were built reasonably well. I like the OI because it also has internal ballast as does my S2.


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## Frogwatch

A guy I know in Marsh HArbor has a the most tricked out Mac26 I have ever seen. He motored from FL in good weather at 10 kts then sailed around to the Abacos. He currently lives at Mangoes MArina in Marsh HArbor but routinely takes her down to Cat Island where he has property. That is a long way.
Him and I agree that the MAc26 is probably a safer boat than most others and its extreme shoal draft ability gives it some capability most boats do not have, he can get waaaaay up into Black Sound at Green Turtle during hurricanes if necessary. He can also get far up into the shallow area of the harbor at Hope Town. He can sail when he wants and then come home under power at 10 kts.


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## night0wl

everyone here needs to watch that "Hold Fast" documentary again. Bahamas can be tricky at times...especially if anchoring out, but the reason people need beefily built bluewater capable boats that are being recommended above are for long passages well out of weather forecast range. Situations where you can be caught in a gale for days. 

But if you're poking around Abacos, Biminis, Berrys, Exumas...near any boat in good condition is fine.


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## sailguy40

I am still debating if a Hunter 33 would be good for a trip from New Orleans to Bahamas. It has a 10,600 lb displacement and I also wonder if the 5.3" draft is a bit too much for the Bahama shallows?


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## Dolby

Watkins 27....im currently writing this from Long Island Bahamas....this is my second trip from delaware to bahamas on this boat...solid build, plenty of room with a 10ft beam, inboard yanmar 2qm15, 3'8" draft, usually see 5-6kts under sail in 10-15kt winds...anymore info check out our blog, Great Mysterious feel free to email


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## TheLostGirlsMom

We have a Westerly Centaur and are planning a cruise to the Bahamas in 2015. This year we are currently adding the solar, fridge, and canvas. It's a great little boat which is meant for rough seas and the bilge keel is the best! We love dropping anchor and letting the tide go out while we are resting on our keels. Makes bottom cleaning quite easy


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## Dolby

@nightowl....I did go back and watch that documentary this evening.....Long island breeze has excellent internet.....those four were unconventional, dangerous, and some damn good learners....me being about there age, and out here on a 27', i would not go without gps...they show it can be done, BUT WHY???? They were lucky....period....i mean we sail on and off anchor....but FOUR anchors???? one will do if you know what you're doing...that doc does not really show bahamas sailing, especially if you WATCH the weather.... and for being a bunch of hippies, they were not too "green" ....all things considered it can be done...take that documentary lightly...planning and research is necessary....then you should have safe, comfortable passages between the islands....and don't steal things....bahamians are some of the most respectful people i have ever met....certainly more than in the US....just go sail....it can be done....I still give props to those four that did it.....


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## krisscross

Dolby said:


> Watkins 27....im currently writing this from Long Island Bahamas....this is my second trip from delaware to bahamas on this boat...solid build, plenty of room with a 10ft beam, inboard yanmar 2qm15, 3'8" draft, usually see 5-6kts under sail in 10-15kt winds...anymore info check out our blog, Great Mysterious feel free to email


Yes, Watkins 27 is a very impressive no nonsense boat. There was one for sale not that long ago here in NC. Very reasonably priced. It was really tempting but I'm not ready to buy yet. Thanks for the link to your blog. Will check it out.
Specific question: Do you think that having a draft of 3 and a half feet vs. 4 and a half feet makes that much difference in finding good, secluded anchorage in the Bahamas?


----------



## krisscross

TheLostGirlsMom said:


> We have a Westerly Centaur and are planning a cruise to the Bahamas in 2015. This year we are currently adding the solar, fridge, and canvas. It's a great little boat which is meant for rough seas and the bilge keel is the best! We love dropping anchor and letting the tide go out while we are resting on our keels. Makes bottom cleaning quite easy


Awesome... I was waiting for someone who sails a Centaur to chime in. How is your boat performing when crossing the Gulf Stream? Frankly, that is my main concern - safety in the passage. What do you think about the size of Centaur's cockpit? Not too large for big waves?


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## krisscross

night0wl said:


> everyone here needs to watch that "Hold Fast" documentary again. Bahamas can be tricky at times...especially if anchoring out, but the reason people need beefily built bluewater capable boats that are being recommended above are for long passages well out of weather forecast range. Situations where you can be caught in a gale for days.


Good point. Safety is job #1


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## krisscross

Frogwatch said:


> About the spade rudder on the S2. Yes, it does worry me. However< have always said that unless I run aground at least once every time I go sailing, I'm not trying enough to have fun. I go aground a lot because I go places I probably shouldn't and I have owned my S2 for 21years. A few years ago when I replaced the shaft strut, I had them check the rudder for delamination and water intrusion. Solid as a rock they said. I have not yet managed to damage it in my adventures but I do have a backup plan if I have to jury rig a rudder.


I sail on Pamlico Sound and we have A LOT of very shallow water. I run aground now and then (mostly when trying to take a shortcut) but I have a swing keel boat (Mirage 5.5) so it is not that bad. My outboard rudder pops up too. Interesting that you have not damaged your spade rudder despite running aground a few times.


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## krisscross

Jeff_H said:


> I would respectfully suggest that the Morgan OI 33 would make a pretty poor choice for the Bahamas. While a decent live aboard, these boats have a terribly corky motion. The short chop on in the Gulf Stream and Banks would make them very uncomfortable for that proposed purpose. Their mediocre sailing ability means that you would spend a lot of time motoring, and fuel is very expensive in the Bahamas which would have a greater impact than docking length for most folks who anchor out in boats this size.
> 
> Jeff


Great points, Jeff. Thank you. I can stand a few hours of corky motion but not if I can help it. 
Engine fuel economy is definitely an important factor for me. I would prefer not to buy fuel in the Bahamas and have enough brought from the States for the entire trip.


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## krisscross

Frogwatch said:


> My philosophy is "Dont worry about looks, in fact you want your boat to look old and tired to avoid looking like a prosperous "target". However, your rigging and basic systems should be in very good shape. Avoid anything complex. Use a porta-potti instead of marine head." My 28' S2 does not even have a connection for shore power. Fixing stuff in the bahamas is often difficult but MArsh HArbor does have one of the best hardware stores I have ever seen.
> One advantage of a smaller boat is that when you are the smallest boat in the harbor, you attract either admiration or "you'r effin nuts" so you meet a lot of people.
> An advantage of having your boat look kinda "run down" is that the locals find it easier to commiserate with you than if it looks expensive.


Dude... we must be long lost brothers... 
As to porta-potti preference... really??? It seems counter-intuitive...


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## Dolby

3.5 or 4ft you're still able to get where others cant.....


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## krisscross

kwaltersmi said:


> A few others to consider that _may_ be available in your budget:
> 
> Alberg 30
> Pearson Triton 28
> Southern Cross 28
> 
> And then there's this gem noted by Charlie Doane: Pearson Alberg 35 Real Cheap on Craigslist


Those are undoubtedly good boats, but I'm hoping for a draft under 4 feet.


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## travlin-easy

Keep in mind that there are still locations in the Bahamas where diesel fuel is not available, or the price is out of this world. I'm fortunate in that I have an Atomic-4 gasoline engine, and gasoline is available just about everywhere in the world, including many of the smaller Bahama Islands.

Gary


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## krisscross

Dolby said:


> 3.5 or 4ft you're still able to get where others cant.....


That is quite comforting. There are not that many passage-safe boats with draft under 4 feet.


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## krisscross

travlineasy said:


> Keep in mind that there are still locations in the Bahamas where diesel fuel is not available, or the price is out of this world. I'm fortunate in that I have an Atomic-4 gasoline engine, and gasoline is available just about everywhere in the world, including many of the smaller Bahama Islands.
> 
> Gary


That is a good point too. Storing extra diesel fuel on board a small boat is a royal pain...


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## krisscross

Capt.aaron said:


> My 1965 Soverel 28, 3 feet board up 8 feet down, has been almost every where in the Bahamas you can go and some places they say you can't. 6 feet of head room, sleeps 3 and screws none as they say. Great little boats, you can pick 'em for a few grand and out fit them for about the same.


Thanks, that is interesting. Soverel 28 has a really low ballast to displacement ratio (under 20%), one I would never consider safe enough for open sea crossing. Have you ever run into rough weather in that boat? How did it do?


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## krisscross

Rhapsody-NS27 said:


> regarding the original post,
> 
> The boats I would pick (including what I currently have)
> Cape Dory 27
> Bayfield 25 & 29
> Bristol 27
> Nor'sea 27
> Bristol Channel Cutter 28
> Pacific Seacraft Flicka (about 20')
> Pacific Seacraft Dana 24
> Albin Vega 27
> 
> These are the boats I was considering when I was looking around.


A few of these are out of my price range. The first 3 and Vega are definitely on my list.
Nor'sea 27 would be a great choice but they are way too expensive for me.


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## caberg

Seafarer 26 offers a lot of boat for the size, if you can find one. SEAFARER 26 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

4' draft
6' 1" headroom in cabin
skeg hung rudder
lead encapsulated keel
solid hand laid fiberglass
wheel steering

We were lucky to find a 1981 that had been sailed minimally and seasonally in fresh water. The original Yanmar 1 GM is in perfect condition. It's been a great boat. It would get to the Bahamas easy enough. I've read that it has done some significant offshore passages, though not much details are available.

Another boat we looked at was a Grampian 26. Again, a lot of boat for the $, and I think there's quite of few of them out there.


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## Dolby

As for diesel fuel.... we are talking about "sail"boats here??? personally I have used 10gal of fuel since new years and traveled almost 300nm from marsh harbor to eleuthrea to exumas to long island and only carry a total of 30 gal on board....it is a sail boat...its meant to be sailed...as long as you wait for weather windows the winds will take you to the destination


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## JonEisberg

krisscross said:


> Specific question: Do you think that having a draft of 3 and a half feet vs. 4 and a half feet makes that much difference in finding good, secluded anchorage in the Bahamas?


In my opinion, No... I cruise the Bahamas with about 5'2" fully loaded, and rarely feel especially "left out", and I think many people make way too much of an issue re shoal draft down there... I know it sounds trite, but the key to finding "secluded anchorages" in the Bahamas, is simply to go where few other cruisers go... Draft is rarely the deal breaker, it's simply the willingness to explore, sail beyond the Exumas, and venture into places like the Bight of Ackins, or Samana Cay...

Certainly, there are many times where I would kill to have a 3.5' draft over there... But you still need a weatherly boat for the Bahamas as well, I'd caution on erring too mightily on the side of extreme shoal draft... There are many, MANY instances where a nimble, good performing boat to weather under sail might make the difference between getting out of a tight spot, or not...

This pic was taken in a little creek entrance named Shroud Cay Harbor... I could only get in thru the entrance at high water, but once inside and lying to bow and stern anchors, I was fine... Room for one boat only, and that was pushing it. (grin) You want secluded, you've got it, there - though I'd only want to stay there in settled weather, I'd be out of there before a frontal passage, due to the inability to swing on the hook... I doubt more than a couple of cruising boats have ventured in there since this pic was taken last winter, probably none larger than mine... It isn't draft that's keeping people out of there, but rather the unwillingness of many to venture off the beaten path, or attempt such a tight, daunting entrance...

Really, even with 4.5' draft, you still have several lifetimes of exploring the Bahamas awaiting you...


----------



## irmedic

My sailing buddy has logged many years in the Bahamas on both our 1978 Hunter 25' and 30' with a comfortable trip each time. Both have shoal keels so they can get into tighter places.


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## krisscross

Dolby said:


> As for diesel fuel.... we are talking about "sail"boats here??? personally I have used 10gal of fuel since new years and traveled almost 300nm from marsh harbor to eleuthrea to exumas to long island and only carry a total of 30 gal on board....it is a sail boat...its meant to be sailed...as long as you wait for weather windows the winds will take you to the destination


Very true. But when you have a schedule to meet, fuel can be a real life saver.


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## kwaltersmi

JonEisberg said:


> This pic was taken in a little creek entrance named Shroud Cay Harbor...


Beautiful picture Jon. Sorry for the hi-jack, but in case anyone is interested the Windtraveler crew is in Shroud Cay currently and I think they draw 4'6" with the board up.


----------



## krisscross

JonEisberg said:


> In my opinion, No... I cruise the Bahamas with about 5'2" fully loaded, and rarely feel especially "left out", and I think many people make way too much of an issue re shoal draft down there... I know it sounds trite, but the key to finding "secluded anchorages" in the Bahamas, is simply to go where few other cruisers go... Draft is rarely the deal breaker, it's simply the willingness to explore, sail beyond the Exumas, and venture into places like the Bight of Ackins, or Samana Cay...
> 
> Certainly, there are many times where I would kill to have a 3.5' draft over there... But you still need a weatherly boat for the Bahamas as well, I'd caution on erring too mightily on the side of extreme shoal draft... There are many, MANY instances where a nimble, good performing boat to weather under sail might make the difference between getting out of a tight spot, or not...


Excellent info and points. Thank you Jon! 
Smaller boats are also easier to get 'unstuck' when you run aground. That makes you a bit more willing to take risks when looking for a nice anchorage.
I have heard that tides in Bahamas average about 3 feet difference. Is that your experience as well?


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## krisscross

caberg said:


> Seafarer 26 offers a lot of boat for the size, if you can find one. (...)
> Another boat we looked at was a Grampian 26. Again, a lot of boat for the $, and I think there's quite of few of them out there.


I would like the Seafarer 26. Grampian 26 has a very unprotected rudder which IMO is a potential liability when cruising.


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## bljones

krisscross said:


> Very true. But when you have a schedule to meet, fuel can be a real life saver.


If you are motoring because you have a schedule to meet, 
a) you ain't cruising, since you've got a schedule and
b) you've got the wrong boat. A trawler might be a better choice.

A small diesel on a small boat doesn't require huge tankage. A yanmar 2 cylinder burns about a 1/2 gallon an hour at cruise, so a 10 gallon tank will allow you to motor a long time. In fact, bigger tanks give you bigger problems, as fuel stales out before it gets used, and condensation is a bigger issue.


----------



## krisscross

irmedic said:


> My sailing buddy has logged many years in the Bahamas on both our 1978 Hunter 25' and 30' with a comfortable trip each time. Both have shoal keels so they can get into tighter places.


Hunter 30SD seems like a pretty solid design and I would put it on my list. A Hunter 25 in good shape would probably work as well. Hunter has a bit of bad reputation when it comes to quality. Is that your observation too? As much as we can be objective when it comes to the boats we own...


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## LauderBoy

I think a lot of the boats mentioned are way overkill for a Bahamas trip. For a $15-20k budget I'd buy an in good condition Catalina 27 for around 5-7k and spend 10k on making sure the engine, anchoring, sails and rigging were in great shape.

Those little 27's are everywhere. Really cheap, easy to sail, nice little rugged boats, and give you enough money left over for some refits and professional maintenance.


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## krisscross

bljones said:


> If you are motoring because you have a schedule to meet,
> a) you ain't cruising, since you've got a schedule and
> b) you've got the wrong boat. A trawler might be a better choice.
> 
> A small diesel on a small boat doesn't require huge tankage. A yanmar 2 cylinder burns about a 1/2 gallon an hour at cruise, so a 10 gallon tank will allow you to motor a long time. In fact, bigger tanks give you bigger problems, as fuel stales out before it gets used, and condensation is a bigger issue.


In this particular trip I have to be back at a somewhat fixed date to go back to work, so it is not open ended cruising. And that is why I have to consider the possibility of more motoring than otherwise required. 
I use fuel stabilizers, which seems to be more relevant for gasoline but probably there is something similar that can be added to diesel fuel.


----------



## krisscross

LauderBoy said:


> I think a lot of the boats mentioned are way overkill for a Bahamas trip. For a $15-20k budget I'd buy an in good condition Catalina 27 for around 5-7k and spend 10k on making sure the engine, anchoring, sails and rigging were in great shape.
> 
> Those little 27's are everywhere. Really cheap, easy to sail, nice little rugged boats, and give you enough money left over for some refits and professional maintenance.


Catalina 27 is a tough little boat. It has some features I like, and some that I don't. If the previous owners took good care of them they can make a good choice.
In the end I'm sure it will all boil down to making a list of boats that are both suitable and available, and trying to score the best deal possible on one of them. I would like to have enough money left for improvements and outfitting. Sometimes these costs can be a lot more than the initial boat price.


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## bratzcpa

We are headed across FL to Bahamas for two months starting on May 1st with a Catalina 27. All new rigging and systems. Solid boat. Draws an inch under 4', but loaded with beer and wine, probably a little OVER 4'!!!

I'll report back on how it went!!

mark


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## krisscross

bratzcpa said:


> We are headed across FL to Bahamas for two months starting on May 1st with a Catalina 27. All new rigging and systems. Solid boat. Draws an inch under 4', but loaded with beer and wine, probably a little OVER 4'!!!
> 
> I'll report back on how it went!!
> 
> mark


I so envy you, Mark! 
I love that rush of preparations before a trip almost as much as the trip itself... kind of a foreplay... 
Besides beer and wine... how much water are you taking with you? Watermaker?


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## truenorth2

travlineasy said:


> Keep in mind that there are still locations in the Bahamas where diesel fuel is not available, or the price is out of this world.


I'm looking at a propane-fueld Lehr outboard as a backup to the wind. How is propane availability on the islands? I'd have what basically amounts to a standard propane tank as you would use for BBQ's.


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## Dolby

Diesel is easier to come by than propane...a lot of time propane has to be dropped of and go to nassau on the mailboat...then return a week later...some places only have delivery once a week, and larger settlements (marsh harbor/ georgetown) propane can be found daily...diesel is certainly more available though


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## Rhys05

Not to hijack, but how do people feel about a boat like the S2 7.9 for this type of application? Its a MORC boat, certainly (as set up stock) more of a racer than a cruiser. Leaving aside the lack of a full galley (which can/would be remedied prior to an extended cruise), how would this boat handle the Gulf Stream crossing and island hopping? Its a weighted daggerboard configuration that draws 5' board down, 1.5' board up.


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## JonEisberg

krisscross said:


> Excellent info and points. Thank you Jon!
> Smaller boats are also easier to get 'unstuck' when you run aground. That makes you a bit more willing to take risks when looking for a nice anchorage.
> I have heard that tides in Bahamas average about 3 feet difference. Is that your experience as well?


A 3 foot tidal range is a bit on the high side, I'd say the average is a bit closer to 2 - 2.5 feet... Playing the tides can be critical, but tide charts can be a bit difficult to obtain and interpret for the Bahamas, and there can be some considerable variation due to wind direction/duration, and water flowing off the banks. There are probably numerous apps available now for tides over there, but since I don't own a Smart-Anything, I always print out all available tide charts before leaving home for the months I'm gonna be there, from sources online... My C-Map charts include tide information, but to be honest, it rarely occurs to me to use a chartplotter as a source for tides...

One affordable boat I think of that might suit your purposes just fine, might be a Cherubini Hunter 30... The Bahamas and the trip south are certainly do-able on something like a CD 25, but I think something closer to 30 feet will be far more comfortable and enjoyable... Also, you really want water tankage heading over there, something that is likely to be extremely minimal on boats much less than 30'... No way I want to be bothered with a watermaker for the Bahamas, you certainly don't need that stuff with a decent water capacity, and an effective means of collecting rainwater...


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## JonEisberg

truenorth2 said:


> I'm looking at a propane-fueld Lehr outboard as a backup to the wind. How is propane availability on the islands? I'd have what basically amounts to a standard propane tank as you would use for BBQ's.


I'd suggest bringing all the containers you think you'll require with you from the States... I use those as well for a Forespar Mini-Galley, and the occasional barbecue... I've never actually looked for them over there, but I imagine away from places like Nassau or Marsh Harbor, they would be difficult to find, and very expensive...

Diesel is rarely a problem, and prices can be all over the map, but not necessarily that bad... In a big sportfishing center like Lucaya, I've paid less for diesel than the price was when I reached Beaufort on the way home...

I think gasoline tends to be the more precious commodity, once you get to the Out Islands, the prices can be jaw-dropping... Many folks heading over there with SUV tenders with 15 or 20 HP outboards, they can be in for a shock what their total gasoline bill might run to over the course of a season...


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## krisscross

JonEisberg said:


> One affordable boat I think of that might suit your purposes just fine, might be a Cherubini Hunter 30... The Bahamas and the trip south are certainly do-able on something like a CD 25, but I think something closer to 30 feet will be far more comfortable and enjoyable... Also, you really want water tankage heading over there, something that is likely to be extremely minimal on boats much less than 30'... No way I want to be bothered with a watermaker for the Bahamas, you certainly don't need that stuff with a decent water capacity, and an effective means of collecting rainwater...


Good advice, Jon... much appreciated. Maybe I am too preoccupied with shallow draft, and keeping the boat small. It is always a trade off... I love the simplicity and manageability of smaller boats but I see the drawbacks as well.


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## hamburking

I had a Paceship 29 with a swing keel. Very good boat, shallow draft, and cheap to purchase. With only 2 people aboard...plenty of space. Good luck on your adventure!


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## bratzcpa

In answer to your question, Kriscross, we have the "stock" water tank in the Catalina 27 of about 10 gallons (yikes, way way small). 

Years ago, the PO removed the inboard motor. All of the motor mount rails, etc. are still in place. And it's kind of a crappy space for storage anyway. I mounted a 35 gallon plastic barrel in that space - basically right on the motor mount rails. Because it's located on the rails, it's just slightly higher than the regular tank, so I can use this to periodcally re-fill the regular tank - via a simple shutoff valve. It's also connected to a deck fitting for 1) filling with a hose at a marina, or 2) rainwater collection. 

I like this much better than jerry cans on deck because it's out of the way (obviously), but it keeps the center of gravity very low too. 

mark


----------



## Capt.aaron

krisscross said:


> Thanks, that is interesting. Soverel 28 has a really low ballast to displacement ratio (under 20%), one I would never consider safe enough for open sea crossing. Have you ever run into rough weather in that boat? How did it do?


Oh jeez, I've been in gales in the Yucatan Channel opposing the stream . I've hove to in 15 footers stacked for 3 day's at a time. 8 foot draft board down and a bunch lead pigs in My bildge. I love the little boat. Taking it to Honduras non stop in May weather or not. I did a way with the spade rudder and put a Barn door on the transom.


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## krisscross

Capt.aaron said:


> Oh jeez, I've been in gales in the Yucatan Channel opposing the stream . I've hove to in 15 footers stacked for 3 day's at a time. 8 foot draft board down and a bunch lead pigs in My bildge. I love the little boat. Taking it to Honduras non stop in May weather or not. I did a way with the spade rudder and put a Barn door on the transom.


Wow... that is pretty awesome... is your board actually heavy, or simply provides more lateral stability under those condition? Adding ballast to the bilge is a neat trick right out of old school ways. Have to keep that in mind. I take it you cast those lead pigs yourself to get the right size and shape?


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## krisscross

bratzcpa said:


> Years ago, the PO removed the inboard motor. All of the motor mount rails, etc. are still in place. And it's kind of a crappy space for storage anyway. I mounted a 35 gallon plastic barrel in that space - basically right on the motor mount rails. Because it's located on the rails, it's just slightly higher than the regular tank, so I can use this to periodcally re-fill the regular tank - via a simple shutoff valve. It's also connected to a deck fitting for 1) filling with a hose at a marina, or 2) rainwater collection.


Yes, that arrangement makes perfect sense. So do you use an outboard now? What is your take on the practicality of an outboard on a boat originally designed for an inboard engine?


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## krisscross

hamburking said:


> I had a Paceship 29 with a swing keel. Very good boat, shallow draft, and cheap to purchase. With only 2 people aboard...plenty of space. Good luck on your adventure!


Oh yes, that was a kicka$$ C&C design, solid as a rock. Would definitely consider it.


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## krisscross

What do you guys think about this Cape Dory 26 on ebay:
CAPE DORY 26 SLOOP , 1985 in Sailboats | eBay Motors


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## Rhapsody-NS27

krisscross said:


> What do you guys think about this Cape Dory 26 on ebay:
> CAPE DORY 26 SLOOP , 1985 in Sailboats | eBay Motors


from the pictures, it looks like a really nice, clean, well maintained boat. Looks like it would be worth a look.


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## Shinook

krisscross said:


> What do you guys think about this Cape Dory 26 on ebay:
> CAPE DORY 26 SLOOP , 1985 in Sailboats | eBay Motors


You should direct specific questions on the CD26 to the CDSOA, they are a great resource.

I'd be more inclined to purchase a CD26 over a CD25, mostly because it's an Alberg design and I really like the interior layout.

Keep in mind, you could probably get a 27, 28, or 30 for that kind of $$, though. I'd go aboard them all, see which you prefer. I'd think long and hard about looking for a CD30 with that kind of $$ though.


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## hamburking

The Cape Dory 26 on ebay looks excellent. I agree with the owner regarding the outboard. Honda outboards are great. However, you won't get the range of a diesel, or the battery charge. And you've got gasoline right next to your hot engine...yikes!

The Carl Albert Designed Cape Dory is an excellent boat...extremely rugged, built to take anything, and beautifully finished. The full keel design is meant for the ocean.

HOWEVER...this is a pretty small boat for that kind of money. For example, there is an O'Day 30 on ebay for $5k, with an inboard yanmar. Do you want to have a boat thats already done up, or some good bones and add your own equipment?

IMHO, in this economy, the cape dory is way overpriced for an older boat. And although I had a honda on the back of my C&C25 for years, I was pretty happy to get an inboard diesel on my current Pearson 30. FYI, my pearson30 has a good diesel, all new standing rigging, chart plotter, new sails, etc...and cost a small fraction of the Cape Dory on ebay. Also, florida is the place where boats are really really cheap (its the bottom of the hill, so to speak). 

So, YES, you would be very happy with the cape dory, provided you are alone or are extremely friendly with your crew. No way around it...its a small boat. But if money is a concern...keep looking.


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## krisscross

Good posts... thanks guys! 
Since most likely I will be sailing solo, I have to keep that in mind as well... small is beautiful when you are alone. I'm used to camping in my 20 foot Mirage, on top of a layer of gear and supplies. Money is definitely an issue but I want a solid boat that is already in good shape when it comes to all the important components - it costs way too much money to re-do all of them. Much cheaper to buy a boat that already has what you need.
This boat caught my eye because it is on a trailer and I can store it at home inland until I'm ready for the big trip (in about 2 years).

Another question:
Would you think this CD26 is safe enough for the Mona Passage and a Caribbean cruise all the way? This is stage 2 of my long term plans.


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## mad_machine

if that boat is half the condition is looks to be in... it will easily take you to the bahamas and back. Alberg designed some wonderful boats that are slow and "wet" by today's standards, but were meant to be sea kindly out in the open ocean.


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## Rhapsody-NS27

I'd go for it. See if you can coordinate to see it in person. Even though it's listed on ebay, you may be able to negotiate price and get a couple grand off.


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## krisscross

Rhapsody-NS27 said:


> I'd go for it. See if you can coordinate to see it in person. Even though it's listed on ebay, you may be able to negotiate price and get a couple grand off.


That would be the plan if I decided to go for it at this time.
A while back on ebay there was this really nice Contest 31 for sale for under 10 grand. I was SO tempted to buy it, but I felt it would have been a premature move on my part. That boat did not sell at that auction (no bids) and I'm hoping it will surface again. I love that design because it is so seaworthy and still has a moderate draft (4.6').


----------



## Shinook

krisscross said:


> Good posts... thanks guys!
> Since most likely I will be sailing solo, I have to keep that in mind as well... small is beautiful when you are alone. I'm used to camping in my 20 foot Mirage, on top of a layer of gear and supplies. Money is definitely an issue but I want a solid boat that is already in good shape when it comes to all the important components - it costs way too much money to re-do all of them. Much cheaper to buy a boat that already has what you need.
> This boat caught my eye because it is on a trailer and I can store it at home inland until I'm ready for the big trip (in about 2 years).
> 
> Another question:
> Would you think this CD26 is safe enough for the Mona Passage and a Caribbean cruise all the way? This is stage 2 of my long term plans.


I think just about any of the Cape Dory boats will take you anywhere you want to go. Our 27 has been at least as far as the BVIs and has made the Mona Passage, but she was at the hands of someone that was very experienced. Now she's in the hands of a few morons  Any of the Cape Dory boats are capable, it's more a matter of your skill. You can search the CDSOA boards and find people that have made fairly significant passages in almost all the boats.

As for this 26, I'd feel rotten buying her in the shape she's in and letting her sit in the back yard for 2 years. That seems like a real shame, considering she's ready to sail as is. I know you said you didn't want a project, but why not spend less on the acquisition and outfit her the way you want across the 2 year period? It seems like a shame to take a seaworthy and ready boat out of the water for 2 years to sit, especially for that kind of $$. You may end up shelling out a little more $$ to fixup the project, but provided it's nothing serious, I doubt you'd be investing a lot more. Our CD27 has definitely been a project and we've paid more to get her up to shape than we could have if we bought one already in good condition, but we learned a LOT about the boat, have all new components in her, and know just about everything backwards and forwards about her components. I spent more doing it, but the experience was worth it. The benefit of this will probably vary on your experience level, though. I just hate to see a boat like that sitting 

Given your requirements, I'd seriously consider a Flicka 20 as well, especially if it's just you.


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## krisscross

Shinook said:


> I know you said you didn't want a project, but why not spend less on the acquisition and outfit her the way you want across the 2 year period?


 I thought about it. It would have to be a boat on a trailer as I live 3 hours from the coast. I would want to keep it at home where I can work on it without travel.
I considered Flicka 20 but it is a very slow boat that tends to be very expensive.


----------



## Shinook

krisscross said:


> I thought about it. It would have to be a boat on a trailer as I live 3 hours from the coast. I would want to keep it at home where I can work on it without travel.
> I considered Flicka 20 but it is a very slow boat that tends to be very expensive.


I hear you on the Flicka, I've been watching for a project Flicka for a few months now and had nothing interesting come up. There is one with a rebuilt cockpit, but that's a little too "project" for me  I've always been enamored by them.

As for keeping it in your yard, how much space do you have? Does it have to be a trailer or can you have it shipped and put on blocks? If it's gonna be in the yard for 2 years, you can spread the expense out and it'd probably be cheaper than having a trailer. Just a thought.


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## krisscross

I have plenty of space in my yard, but trucking it in would be both expensive and tricky (hard to offload from an 18-wheeler). I could have it dropped in my neighbor's yard which has a much better access but I would hate to impose on him like that for so long.


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## krisscross

As to 'project' boats... a friend of mine got burned really bad on a boat like that. After he was done he ended up spending 3 times as much as what a similar boat would cost, not counting hundreds upon hundreds of hours he put into it himself. I don't want to make the same mistake. I would prefer to just add stuff I'm going to need anyway, like extra water storage and wind vane steering that most boats on my list just don't have.


----------



## Shinook

krisscross said:


> As to 'project' boats... a friend of mine got burned really bad on a boat like that. After he was done he ended up spending 3 times as much as what a similar boat would cost, not counting hundreds upon hundreds of hours he put into it himself. I don't want to make the same mistake. I would prefer to just add stuff I'm going to need anyway, like extra water storage and wind vane steering that most boats on my list just don't have.


You'll pay more in the long run, but the way I see it, I'm getting a lot of experience and intimate knowledge of those systems that I wouldn't have otherwise.

Also, consider that most of the components on our boat (a 1977) are over 35 years old at this point. I really don't want 35 year old wire and tubing going through something that I'm gonna be sleeping on, so the fact those systems needed stripped out and replaced with new didn't bother me. In other words, sure you'll pay more to finish it, but everything will be new vs very aged. It's worth pointing out on this note that Cape Dory did a horrible job with wiring, it's one of the few areas the boats needed to be rethought. Our wiring was a disaster and stripping it out was a chore, but one I'm glad that I did.

That was our way of thinking, some people may disagree, but that's how we view it. It's all a matter of perspective and opinion. On boats this size, you aren't talking about an extreme expense with most systems anyway, as you get larger I can see the costs racking up.

I should point out that I'm not trying to convert you to our way of thinking, it's perfectly reasonable to not want a project. They are a lot of time and investment, but I chose to do it for various personal reasons, two of which I've mentioned already, but also that there are some things I don't want to leave to someone else to do, wiring being a big one. I like being involved and doing things myself as much as possible, so the work doesn't really bother me.



krisscross said:


> I have plenty of space in my yard, but trucking it in would be both expensive and tricky (hard to offload from an 18-wheeler). I could have it dropped in my neighbor's yard which has a much better access but I would hate to impose on him like that for so long.


Will the cost of shipping and blocking exceed that of a trailer? I don't know, but worth considering.


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## krisscross

Shinook said:


> You'll pay more in the long run, but the way I see it, I'm getting a lot of experience and intimate knowledge of those systems that I wouldn't have otherwise.
> 
> Also, consider that most of the components on our boat (a 1977) are over 35 years old at this point. I really don't want 35 year old wire and tubing going through something that I'm gonna be sleeping on, so the fact those systems needed stripped out and replaced with new didn't bother me. In other words, sure you'll pay more to finish it, but everything will be new vs very aged.


I agree. If it was all old stuff (like wiring) I would want it replaced, but most decent boats that age went through all the likely upgrades and renovations. I don't mind spending money to get the boat in good shape, I just want to do it wisely (as if buying a sailboat had anything to do with spending money wisely).


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## juke2

_Watkins 27....im currently writing this from Long Island Bahamas....this is my second trip from delaware to bahamas on this boat...solid build, plenty of room with a 10ft beam, inboard yanmar 2qm15, 3'8" draft, usually see 5-6kts under sail in 10-15kt winds...anymore info check out our blog,Great Mysterious _
______________________________________

Bought a Watkins 27 last fall, and have been following the Great Mysterious blog since. Great writing, great pictures. (What did happen when the GM went offshore in Georgia, though?)

The boat I purchased had been well-maintained and pretty much similarly equipped to GM (Yanmar 2GM; roller jib; autopilot; pedestal; radar & sonar; newer full-battened main; hot/cold; electric fridge; inverter; shore hook-ups; new cushions and dodger; etc) and I kind of fell into it for under $5k, including tax and fees. (Unlike the GM though, no Why-Not davits or bimini top - where did the GM get hers?)

For the money, the Watkins seem pretty sturdy but particularly unloved by the market. 
.............................................

Now, for those looking for other Bahamas-worthy offerings:

I got mine at a Mass Maritime auction, which is a hit-or-miss thing. The twice-a-year auction usually has a lot of interesting boats. Last auction there were several asking-six-figure 50-foot-plus boats they parked in Marion harbor for the event, and apparently sold. Current inventory listing is here: _maritime.edu/apps/boats/_ (since I'm new the forum won't allow live links on this post)-- but it will expand substantially as the spring auction date approaches. The listed prices are just their 'blue book/suggested retail' and for the auction there is an unpublished 'reserve' somewhere below these numbers.

The current listings that do not have asterisks are those that failed to sell at the last auction - the unpublished reserves were not met - and those boats are still lingering since last Fall (i.e., make an offer).

If nothing else, it's an interesting list to follow from time to time. Plus, the proceeds go to a good cause.


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## fallard

krisscross said:


> I have plenty of space in my yard, but trucking it in would be both expensive and tricky (hard to offload from an 18-wheeler). I could have it dropped in my neighbor's yard which has a much better access but I would hate to impose on him like that for so long.


You might want to check with boat transport services before you jump to conclusions. There are hydraulic trailers that can back under a boat, pick it up, and drive down the interstate, and then drop it off in your yard. You supply the jack stands/cradle.

Our boat yard uses such a trailer to pick up a boat at the travelift and then shoe horn it in the yard for winter storage in places a travelift wouldn't fit.

It may not be as expensive as you think to have it delivered to you. Otherwise, you'd need your own trailer and may need to hire a suitable tow vehicle to haul it. When you go off on your adventure, you would likely have to pay to store the trailer or sell it.


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## krisscross

fallard said:


> You might want to check with boat transport services before you jump to conclusions.


Good advice, thank you. I will look into that. I have passed up a couple of really good buys because I was worried about the transportation/storage costs. I have a full size truck that can pull a substantial load so I was mainly looking at the trailer option.


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## Shinook

krisscross said:


> Good advice, thank you. I will look into that. I have passed up a couple of really good buys because I was worried about the transportation/storage costs. I have a full size truck that can pull a substantial load so I was mainly looking at the trailer option.


I looked at having a few 30 footers transported to us from as far as NC (we are in FL), the cost wasn't that ridiculous. I don't recall exact figures, but we were on a tight budget and I was seriously considering it if the right deal came along.


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## champlain94

ALBERG 30. Drafts 4.25 empty. Very safe boat. You can get them for less then $10,000 with a good running yanmar or westerbeke. Not a very wide beam or high freeboard but that helps with its seaworthiness.


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## krisscross

I am pretty much set on a Westerly Centaur - 26 feet and twin keel
CENTAUR 26 (WESTERLY) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
What are the things to watch for when buying this particular boat?
Your comments are always deeply appreciated. I have learned a lot here.
Thanks!
Kris


----------



## Capt.aaron

krisscross said:


> I am pretty much set on a Westerly Centaur - 26 feet and twin keel
> CENTAUR 26 (WESTERLY) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
> What are the things to watch for when buying this particular boat?
> Your comments are always deeply appreciated. I have learned a lot here.
> Thanks!
> Kris


Read a Voayge for Madmen. The Westerlys started out all right on the Atlantic long way's crossing, but showed where they needed to be beefed up a month in to getting beat up out there. Any Glass production boat can use some beefing IMOP. I added a lot of of epoxy and Glass to my 1965 Soverel and I'm not done yet.


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## c. breeze

I just sold a Bristol 27 that other than bottom paint was ready to go. atom bomb, 130 on harkin roller, typical b27 main sheet arrangement, whisker pole, recent standing rigging, servicable to new running rigging, anchors, rodes, fenders, dock lines, blah blah blah- 4500.

that was a pretty sweet bahamas boat- 4 foot draft, nice low freeboard= way fun and easy to swim/dive from. TONS of storage space, great for a couple with the dinnette, not as great for a couple of buddies or a couple with a kid. there isn't a boat made with an icebox that is suitable for the bahamas, ice is too expensive to justify unless there is fresh fish to keep for a few days. so you may want a fridge.

I met a french canuck guy and his wife in a pretty awesome centaur, really well done remodel inside, made for a far bigger boat on the inside than my B27- I have no idea about the stock ones however, interior. I don't like the cockpit in the westerly as well as some others, the combings really. same on the Albin Vega and the Contessa, it seems to enclose you abit more, and you lose some of the advantages of the easy access afforded by the lowfreeboard.

Tartan 27 with its shoal draft, Keel/ CB arrangement would be about perfect too.

My new pearson Renegade is getting towards 4'6" draft, which is as deep a boat as I want there. and doesn't have the storage space of the Bristol 27, it also accelerates a bit quicker, and tacks easier- especially with a dink in tow- which you will tow it occasionally even if you swear you never will...


----------



## krisscross

Capt.aaron said:


> Read a Voayge for Madmen. The Westerlys started out all right on the Atlantic long way's crossing, but showed where they needed to be beefed up a month in to getting beat up out there. Any Glass production boat can use some beefing IMOP. I added a lot of of epoxy and Glass to my 1965 Soverel and I'm not done yet.


I really appreciate all your comments Capt.aaron. Your approach to sailing truly resonates with me. Simplicity, grit, and guts.


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## krisscross

c. breeze said:


> My new pearson Renegade is getting towards 4'6" draft, which is as deep a boat as I want there. and doesn't have the storage space of the Bristol 27, it also accelerates a bit quicker, and tacks easier- especially with a dink in tow- which you will tow it occasionally even if you swear you never will...


Speaking of dinks...
Has anybody seen a set up where a light dink is stored on a special rig over the cockpit? I know, it is a lot of weight hanging over your noggin, but it is so tempting to try...


----------



## Capt.aaron

krisscross said:


> I really appreciate all your comments Capt.aaron. Your approach to sailing truly resonates with me. Simplicity, grit, and guts.


Thanks,
I look at it like this, The boat was designed to catch a breeze and move along. So let it it do that, Put the gear you need on it first, and then what you want. keep your wants simple and your needs, starting at safety and work down to life support. ie: food and water. The simpler you make it the easier it will be. I grew up sailing the Bahamas with Grandad on our Soverel 28, starting 1979 till present. Great boat for that area, 3 foot draft for the banks etc. 8 foot for beating up the Toungue of the Ocean. I guess there is some grit invovled with my philosophy, but the gut's is really just the fact that many many people were doing it before me so I just immitated what I was seeing. I'm certainly no pioneer and I am def. not a performance sailor guy. If I'm moving along towards where I feel I need to be at a decent clip, I'm happy.


----------



## c. breeze

I don see where there would be room- there's a boom there already... And Davits off the stern on a little boat is a travesty. Rolled up on the foredeck, with outboard stowed below in the cabin is the way to go with a small boat. Every other way has too dramatic effect on sailing ability in a little boat, loading the ass down, clogging the entire foredeck, etc etc.


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## krisscross

Currently I use a kayak as my dink, but stowing it on my current 20 foot Mirage is always a major pain. Usually I put a cover on it and tow it behind me but I always worry about losing it or flooding it in rough weather. I also carry my 14 foot stand up paddle board with me, tied to the stays or fore deck. That makes for a lot of clutter but provides a lot of fun once anchored somewhere. I'm working on some system of tying my board on top of my kayak.


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## c. breeze

A decent size quarter berth can house the SuP and paddle. And a surf board or two with it. The kayak on a side deck of a weatherly wouldn't be great, making it difficult to get forward etc- but it wouldn't be a deal breaker either.


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## mountaintrout

Anyone think a Nonsuch 30 would be good for the Bahamas?


----------



## c. breeze

Yes. The SD version especially. Sweet interior layout with an aft head. Plenty of cockpit to hang out in. Cruises at 5-6. Has plenty of storage. Easy to singlehand. I still like a sloop though.


----------



## JonEisberg

krisscross said:


> Speaking of dinks...
> Has anybody seen a set up where a light dink is stored on a special rig over the cockpit? I know, it is a lot of weight hanging over your noggin, but it is so tempting to try...


well, this guy comes close... Hopefully, you'd have the good sense to step back and have a look at what you'd done, and quickly abandon the idea... (grin)

seems like you'd give up just a bit of performance under sail, to me...


----------



## Capt.aaron

JonEisberg said:


> well, this guy comes close... Hopefully, you'd have the good sense to step back and have a look at what you'd done, and quickly abandon the idea... (grin)
> 
> seems like you'd give up just a bit of performance under sail, to me...


Ha!
As for a Big A$$ dinghy crammed into a little boat, I'm fix'n to buy the 18' kaboat as my cruising dink. I saw a guy with the black one zinging through an anchorage a few years ago and it's been on my wish list ever since. Fit's in a bag and puts together quick. For many years I cruised with 2 old beat up windsurfer boards on either side of me cabin top. This was decades before the paddle board craze. They are half the width of a paddle board, and super stable with the little keel thing down, and they are free usually. I would sit on it and Kayak paddle around. They also made it easy to cram stuff like jerry cans between them and the cabin top.


----------



## krisscross

JonEisberg said:


> well, this guy comes close... Hopefully, you'd have the good sense to step back and have a look at what you'd done, and quickly abandon the idea... (grin)
> 
> seems like you'd give up just a bit of performance under sail, to me...


Ha ha... good find! 
I was actually considering using a dink turned upside down hanging over the cockpit as a poor-man's dodger substitute... 
My SuP board is also a former windsurfing board. I kept a bunch of my old sails as well. In a pinch, they could make an emergency jib or two...  
I'm probably a 'Larry-the cable guy' kind of a sailor...


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## Capt.aaron

Yeah, I'm a Huckleberry fin sailor myself, him and jethro, I find a nice piece if 3/8 line makes a handy belt with a 100 and one uses.


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## krisscross

Capt.aaron said:


> Yeah, I'm a Huckleberry fin sailor myself, him and jethro, I find a nice piece if 3/8 line makes a handy belt with a 100 and one uses.


Huck was a big inspiration for my early river adventures 
Have you read the book Papillon? That guy had some incredible sea adventures. Some question whether they were really his, but I believe him. The power of human spirit is incredible.


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## Capt.aaron

krisscross said:


> Huck was a big inspiration for my early river adventures
> Have you read the book Papillon? That guy had some incredible sea adventures. Some question whether they were really his, but I believe him. The power of human spirit is incredible.


I saw the movie. I remember him making it to land on a bundle of coconuts.


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## krisscross

Capt.aaron said:


> I saw the movie. I remember him making it to land on a bundle of coconuts.


The book is at least 10 times better and includes a detailed account of his incredible life with the Venezuelan Indians. The movie changed that part as well. In the book he left the Indian village because he wanted to go back to civilization - something he later came to bitterly regret for the rest of his life.


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## Capt.aaron

krisscross said:


> The book is at least 10 times better and includes a detailed account of his incredible life with the Venezuelan Indians. The movie changed that part as well. In the book he left the Indian village because he wanted to go back to civilization - something he later came to bitterly regret for the rest of his life.


20 years ago when I was working in Belize, and old fishing guide recalled Papillion Himself had passed through the area back in the 60's.


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## krisscross

Capt.aaron said:


> 20 years ago when I was working in Belize, and old fishing guide recalled Papillion Himself had passed through the ares back in the 60's.


Wow... that is pretty awesome...
Despite all the development in the coastal areas in Central America and Caribbean, there are still many fantastic and wild places there. I hope to see them some day before I kick the bucket...


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## Capt.aaron

Back to the topic, I just read on the Mantus anchor thread that some dude is sailing around the Bahamas on a 12 foot boat.


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## Jeff_H

krisscross said:


> I am pretty much set on a Westerly Centaur - 26 feet and twin keel
> CENTAUR 26 (WESTERLY) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
> What are the things to watch for when buying this particular boat?
> Your comments are always deeply appreciated. I have learned a lot here.
> Thanks!
> Kris


Hopefully, someone can talk you out of the Westerly. I used to teach sailing on Westerlies of this era and they were really crumby boats. They did not sail well, especially in the kind of chop that the Bahamas and Gulf Stream are notorious for. They had cheesy hardware and were not very well constructed and so needed to be pieced back together with a fair degree of regularity at least as compared to the one Pearson that was in the fleet. The bilge keel version of that boat was terribly difficult to free when it was run aground. I know the English love these boats, but there are much better choices out there for the dollar.

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## Capt.aaron

Yeah, I remember my buddy's, it would bob up and down instead go forward.


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## krisscross

Jeff_H said:


> Hopefully, someone can talk you out of the Westerly. I used to teach sailing on Westerlies of this era and they were really crumby boats. They did not sail well, especially in the kind of chop that the Bahamas and Gulf Stream are notorious for. They had cheesy hardware and were not very well constructed and so needed to be pieced back together with a fair degree of regularity at least as compared to the one Pearson that was in the fleet. The bilge keel version of that boat was terribly difficult to free when it was run aground. I know the English love these boats, but there are much better choices out there for the dollar.
> 
> Respectfully,
> Jeff


Your input is much appreciated, Jeff... even if it bursts my bubble...  In theory and on paper a lot of stuff looks good, but it takes people with direct experience to make a proper evaluation... I guess I'm back to my original group, like the Cape Dory 25D to CD28, Bristol 27 or one of the larger Bristol centerboarders...


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## Capt.aaron

I don't think you can go wrong with a bristol centerboarder. An old flush deck Cal 29 is a good one to, roomy below.


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## krisscross

Capt.aaron said:


> Back to the topic, I just read on the Mantus anchor thread that some dude is sailing around the Bahamas on a 12 foot boat.


Yea... I looked at the pictures of similar micro-cruisers and it made me reflect on some parts of my anatomy...


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## Jeff_H

If I had to put together a list of boats to the Bahamas on a very tight budget, my first choice for the title "best (small and inexpensive) boat to cruise the Bahamas" would be a Tartan 27. 

Other than that, off the top of my head, I would consider centerboard versions of boats like the 1960's Morgan 24-25, Morgan Tigercub 28 (somewhat rare but I saw one recently listed on Yachtworld), The far less desirable Morgan 28, the Dolphin 24, the Halsey Herreshoff designed Bristol 26, Seafarer Polaris 26 or the similar Sailmaster 26.


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## krisscross

Jeff_H said:


> If I had to put together a list of boats to the Bahamas on a very tight budget, my first choice for the title "best (small and inexpensive) boat to cruise the Bahamas" would be a Tartan 27.
> 
> Other than that, off the top of my head, I would consider centerboard versions of boats like the 1960's Morgan 24-25, Morgan Tigercub 28 (somewhat rare but I saw one recently listed on Yachtworld), The far less desirable Morgan 28, the Dolphin 24, the Halsey Herreshoff designed Bristol 26, Seafarer Polaris 26 or the similar Sailmaster 26.


Yes, T27 is on my list as well, and there are many of them available.
Interesting that you are not including the Cape Dory boats... reasons?
Why is Morgan 28 far less desirable than M24/25?
What is your take on Bristol 29.9 and 32 - both CB versions - for Bahama cruising? They are harder to fit into my price range but are rather tempting.


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## c. breeze

More to the point what makes the tigercub superior than the 28? I don't know much abou it- other than its "got the look". I've go a line on a m28 that I might get to work on and flip.


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## Jeff_H

To respond to some of the questions above....
I have generally not been a fan of the Cape Dories. I don't like the way they sail. They generally are not well rounded designs. They tend to be undercanvased and not stand up to the sail area that they have. I don't like their motion which tends to be rolly and in the case of the Alberg designs, with their silly short waterlines, pitch and not deal well with chop, or carrying excess weight.

The Morgan 28 was more full ended than the Tigercub, and had a deck plan that I never liked on a boat this size. The wedge forward broke up the deck and did not produce as much useful headroom as a trunk cabin. I have not sailed these boats but they supposedly were the basis for the Morgan IO 28 which I have sailed and don't think much of.

I am not a fan of either the Bristol 32 or 29.9. On the broad spectrum between really great design and next to useless and ill-conceived, the Bristol 32 falls very close to the useless end of the spectrum in my mind. The Pearson Vanguard was a much better boat all around and it wasn't that great a boat. 

While I know there are folks who really love their 29.9's, I never thought they were a very good design compared to Halsey Herreschoff's other designs for Bristol. I particularly liked his 33/34. 

Another boat for your list might be the Irwin 28. And if you find one at a price you can afford, the C&C Corvette 30 was a very nice design. One of my favorites from that time.

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## c. breeze

What about a redwing. But for the dinette/galley port starboard thing- they are intriguing. But I can't deal with that interior- unless it has a quarter berth that works as seating too. 

That's a pretty slow 30 footer too. I think I would prefer a pearson 30. 

My bristol 27 was great- in 15 knots with the genoa rolled up to about 100%. But it didn't go well enough in light air- though it was fun flying the asym- and was just too tender to accelerate in big air. But for all that- and having to backwind the jib to tack- it was a lot of fun to sail- and you can sail her pretty fearlessly if you don't get her overpowered. Part of the fun was the balancing act. I know that sounds like many qualifiers.


----------



## krisscross

Thanks for the input, Jeff. The C&C Corvette does look like a great boat for my purpose, but they are hard to find and some have their CB glassed over, which is a shame IMO.


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## Jeff_H

To me comparing the Redwing to the Corvette is a great case study of how a racing rule can alter the shape of a boat in ways which are detrimental to the sailing characteristics of the boat since they were designed by the same designers only a couple years apart. The Redwing was designed primarily as a CCA racer which like most CCA boats also mean a good coastal cruiser. The Corvette was designed as good coastal cruiser and was closer in design to the MORC boats of that era. The Redwind was much more tender and had a proportionately shorter waterline as well. 

This meant that the Corvette was a much more well rounded design being able to carry its sail area more comfortably, and deal with shifting conditions. The Corvette was simply more forgiving and so was a much better boat for cruising. They are actually faster than the Redwing, and with their centerboards are able to be balanced so they have a lighter helm. The Redwing tends to be a little more rolly than the Corvette, and sort of flops through the center of the roll, fetching up as it builds stability as the topsides enter the water. It's not as bad as some from this era, but the Corvette has a much nicer motion all around. Also the Corvette should tolerate carrying more 'stuff'.

Jeff


----------



## Jeff_H

BTW I would not want a Corvette which had the board glassed over. The board is a super feature allowing great upwind ability, plus the ability to balance the helm which I think is a super asset to a shorthanded.

One other thought here: If you made up your mind that you would be willing to live with the fixed keel depth of a Pearson 30 or Redwing 30, there is no doubt in my mind that I would not look at either. In that general price, size and draft range, I would focus on the Tartan 30, which was a far superior boat to either of these in all ways that I can think of. 

Jeff


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## okawbow

I've sailed the Bristol 24 with inboard diesel, a few thousand miles. I did a single handed 140 mile Gulf of Mexico crossing, averaging 5 knots in 10 -20 knot winds without leaving my dinner over the side. The specs and sailing qualities are comparable to the Dana 25 and 25D Cape Dory, at far less cost. I was able to singlehandedly get ungrounded a few times without any damage. The Corsair sails well with good sails and set-up. I've won several hare and hound races with mine. The draft is 3'5". The ballast on my 1976 model with inboard is 3000# solid lead. Many of the early and some of the later ones had concrete and steel ballast. Look for one with a 10"-12" deep bilge for lead ballast. If the bilge is only 2" or so, it has concrete. 

If you can find one with lead ballast and inboard in good shape, you usually can buy it for well under $10,000.


----------



## krisscross

How about this Golden Hind: 1975 Traditional British Cruiser Golden Hind sailboat for sale in Outside United States
Bilge keeler, 3' draft, quite a bit of good equipment, decent price in my target range, but it is an older wooden boat that has been glassed over (on the outside only) during initial construction.
Any thoughts?


----------



## Group9

I used to have a Cape Dory 25D with a one cylinder Yanmar in it and a roller furler, and a 3 1/2 foot draft.

I never took it to the Bahamas, but I wish I had because it would have been the perfect boat for single-handing there.

Really, the shallower the draft the better as far as getting in the best anchorages, in the Bahamas. With a 3 foot draft or less, you can find good all weather protection in a lot of places.


----------



## misfits

krisscross said:


> decent price in my target range, but it is an older wooden boat that has been glassed over (on the outside only) during initial construction.
> Any thoughts?


A friend of mine has a 26' 1937 Kirshner?? that's glassed over. Trust me, you don't want to do this. Run like the wind.


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## krisscross

misfits said:


> A friend of mine has a 26' 1937 Kirshner?? that's glassed over. Trust me, you don't want to do this. Run like the wind.


I have heard various opinions on glassed wood boats. Supposedly, if it is done correctly (good adhesion) during the initial construction then it is not so bad. But that is definitely a major area for concern.


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## krisscross

Group9 said:


> I used to have a Cape Dory 25D with a one cylinder Yanmar in it and a roller furler, and a 3 1/2 foot draft.
> 
> I never took it to the Bahamas, but I wish I had because it would have been the perfect boat for single-handing there.
> 
> Really, the shallower the draft the better as far as getting in the best anchorages, in the Bahamas. With a 3 foot draft or less, you can find good all weather protection in a lot of places.


Thanks. 25D used to be my most obvious choice. Have you sailed it in really rough weather? How did it do?


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## paradiselostparrot

Can prob be had for 5k and would make a nice coastal cruiser. If it becomes a money pit you can always burn it.


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## krisscross

paradiselostparrot said:


> Can prob be had for 5k and would make a nice coastal cruiser. If it becomes a money pit you can always burn it.


You can get Cape Dory 25 for 5k, but not Cape Dory 25D - that is a very different design. It is hard to find a decent 25D for less than 15k and they hold their value really well. CD25 draws only 3' which is a big plus, but has some features that make her less desirable for crossing the Gulf Stream.


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## Group9

krisscross said:


> Thanks. 25D used to be my most obvious choice. Have you sailed it in really rough weather? How did it do?


I never took it very far offshore, but it really didn't even sail that great until the wind got up around 20 knots. It was actually kind of fun to get caught in a 30 knot or 35 knot wind a couple of times on it. With a double reefed main and the headsail rolled up about halfway, it felt like it was on a railroad track it took it so well. 

And, it had as big a head as my 42 foot boat has now. Great design.

With some normal preparation, I would have felt safe sailing it around the world. It was built like a tank.


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## blowinstink

The Cape Dory 25D is a cult boat and, thus, overpriced. A CD27 or CD28 in similar condition will almost always be cheaper. They ought to sail better too. 

As an aside, I have never before heard any CD owner say that his boat didn't sail well in light air. I can get my boat moving well in 7-8 knots of wind. CD's are actually pretty tender to start and almost all would be reefed before 20knots.

Lots of boats will do well in the bahamas. Just get one and go!


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## krisscross

blowinstink said:


> Lots of boats will do well in the bahamas. Just get one and go!


Ha ha... yes, I'm starting to see it that way. Still, we all like to engage in a little bit of 'boat foreplay' to pass the time before the time when buying a boat is actually smart.


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## Rhapsody-NS27

krisscross said:


> Ha ha... yes, I'm starting to see it that way. Still, we all like to engage in a little bit of 'boat foreplay' to pass the time before *the time when buying a boat is actually smart.*


Reminds me of a statement someone made on a forum once. Something like this...

"Buying a boat is hardly a good financial decision."


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## fallard

blowinstink said:


> The Cape Dory 25D is a cult boat and, thus, overpriced. A CD27 or CD28 in similar condition will almost always be cheaper. They ought to sail better too.


"Cult" boats got that way because they were valued by enough people, that to say they are "overpriced" ignores the law of supply and demand.

I've never owned a CD, but I did have a catboat--another "cult" boat that held its value. The reason cult boats hold their value is because they offer something to their owners of value over a very long time. You might pay more than another boat of the same vintage, but you will likely get most of your money back when you sell it many years later. The CDs, as I understand them, are solid boats that retain their value better than many of their contemporaries.

Bottom line: CDs aren't overpriced if folks are wiling to pay the price. No one is forcing you to buy one.


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## blowinstink

fallard said:


> "Cult" boats got that way because they were valued by enough people, that to say they are "overpriced" ignores the law of supply and demand.
> 
> I've never owned a CD, but I did have a catboat--another "cult" boat that held its value. The reason cult boats hold their value is because they offer something to their owners of value over a very long time. You might pay more than another boat of the same vintage, but you will likely get most of your money back when you sell it many years later. The CDs, as I understand them, are solid boats that retain their value better than many of their contemporaries.
> 
> Bottom line: CDs aren't overpriced if folks are wiling to pay the price. No one is forcing you to buy one.


Hey nice rant!

Do you know that I own and sail a CD330? As for supply and demand, I think the short supply of the CD25 (along with its inclusion in JV's book) may have something to do with its excessive price. In any event, I simply suggested that CD27's and 28's were significantly better values than the 25D. Not sure you said anything to the contrary, but since you quoted me . . ..

-M


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## krisscross

Rhapsody-NS27 said:


> Reminds me of a statement someone made on a forum once. Something like this...
> 
> "Buying a boat is hardly a good financial decision."


Dude... those moments out there on the water, when nobody is bugging you for days... PRICELESS!


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## Group9

blowinstink said:


> The Cape Dory 25D is a cult boat and, thus, overpriced. A CD27 or CD28 in similar condition will almost always be cheaper. They ought to sail better too.
> 
> As an aside, I have never before heard any CD owner say that his boat didn't sail well in light air. I can get my boat moving well in 7-8 knots of wind. CD's are actually pretty tender to start and almost all would be reefed before 20knots.
> 
> Lots of boats will do well in the bahamas. Just get one and go!


The 27 and 28's are great, too. I had my checkbook out and almost bought a pristine CD 27 for $11,000 (owner had just bought another boat and his wife was raising hell with him to get rid of it) in Annapolis once before my wife ripped it out of my hand (already had one boat). I still wish my grip had been stronger.


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## Group9

blowinstink said:


> Hey nice rant!
> 
> Do you know that I own and sail a CD330? As for supply and demand, I think the short supply of the CD25 (along with its inclusion in JV's book) may have something to do with its excessive price. In any event, I simply suggested that CD27's and 28's were significantly better values than the 25D. Not sure you said anything to the contrary, but since you quoted me . . ..
> 
> -M


CD 330's are sweet.

All CDs are priced high. One because they didn't make enough of them to go around, and two, because they are all really sweet boats.


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## Shinook

The 27 and 28 are great boats, but I much prefer the interior arrangement of the 25D.


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## Group9

Shinook said:


> The 27 and 28 are great boats, but I much prefer the interior arrangement of the 25D.


I'll say this for sure. Nobody in history ever put a nicer head on a 25 foot boat than the CD 25D has.


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