# Hey West Marine that's one hell of a mark up !!



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

West Marine - Ancor Products Ratcheting Crimper $104.95

Hamilton Marine - Ancor Products Ratcheting Crimper $62.99

At normal retail the West Marine price is $42.00 MORE and it's selling for MORE than Ancor's suggested list price!!!

P.S. With my commercial discount at Hamilton I paid considerably less than $62.99 so WM is making a HUGE profit on just this one item!

Any more examples of what NOT to buy from West Marine and to source elsewhere??


----------



## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Um, sorry, I don't have the disk space to upload the whole catalog and then post it on the site.


----------



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

bestfriend said:


> Um, sorry, I don't have the disk space to upload the whole catalog and then post it on the site.


Yeah, I guess this thread could get bigger than the song chain with WM's prices... The new catalog is extremely offensive this year!!


----------



## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

I thought they had misprinted the cover of the phone book!


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

A few years back I needed this:

West Marine: Radio Mount, Universal Product Display

Back then, WM was charging in the $45 range. At the time Defender was selling it for $9. In the intervening years, it seems WM has come down some and Defender has gone up some. But WM is still 2.5X Defender:

Universal Radio Mount

Heck, it's just a piece of plastic!!

EDIT: For some reason SailNet seems to be blocking the links. I'll try to fix it if I can...Okay, hopefully I've got it now.


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

West Marine Brass Thermometer $34.99

I bought the same one at the Havre de Grace Tidewater Marina shop, regular price $9.99

I went to look at outboards at WM, Mercury 3.5 was $990

Defender Mercury 3.5 Hp $880


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Interesting...they've got the same crimper here for less than $60.


----------



## mstern (May 26, 2002)

needed a replacement tiller. West Marine: $114; Defender: $69


----------



## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Ordered 2 gallons of Micron Extra from Defender for $168/gal last Spring + $14 postage - delivered to me and no tax. West charged $225/gal + 7% tax and I would have had to lug them home.


----------



## CosmosMariner (Dec 21, 2006)

I worked at The Evil Empire for 4 years...only good thing was most of the employees....found better prices on the internet than my 'Associate Discount'! I go out of my way to not buy from them and it is saving me money!


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Bought a brand new Ancor on Ebay for $50.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Here's a list of some items that might be bought when outfitting a boat for the upcoming season.

*Icom M504 DSC VHF Radio with integrated Hailer *

*West Marine..... $299.00*
Sailnet.com..... $289.82
*Defender.com... $259.99*
MauriProsailing. $287.50
Pyacht.com...... $293.95
Hamiltonmarine.$269.99

*Danforth 14 lb. Anchor*

West Marine..... $ 52.99* Not a Danforth brand, but 13 lb. West Marine brand
Sailnet.com..... $ n/a
*Defender.com... $ 49.99*
MauriProsailing. $ n/a
*Pyacht.com...... $ 79.44** 13 lb. Danforth
Hamiltonmarine.$ 50.99

*Mustang Hydrostatic Release Automatic PFD #3183*

*West Marine..... $300*
Sailnet.com..... $229.99
*Defender.com... $199.99*
MauriProsailing. $229.99
Pyacht.com...... $ n/a 
Hamiltonmarine.$ n/a

*Magma Newport Propane BBQ Grill*

*West Marine..... $269.99*
Sailnet.com..... $ n/a
*Defender.com... $229.99*
MauriProsailing. $ n/a
Pyacht.com...... $ n/a 
Hamiltonmarine.$249.99

*Orion SOLAS Handheld Red Flare*

*West Marine..... $ 23.99*
Sailnet.com..... $ n/a
*Defender.com... $ 11.99*
MauriProsailing. $ n/a
Pyacht.com...... $ n/a 
Hamiltonmarine.$ 14.99

BTW, I don't recommend getting USCG flares, since the SOLAS approved flares are nt only brighter, but safer, and the price difference isn't that big.

*Spinlock 1200S Tiller Extension*

*West Marine..... $209.99*
Sailnet.com..... $ n/a
Defender.com... $174.99
*MauriProsailing. $158.80*
Pyacht.com...... $162.90
Hamiltonmarine.$ n/a

It is interesting to see who has the product in their on-line catalog, and who doesn't. It is also interesting to see who's got the highest price almost every time...and who's got the lowest price almost every time. However, price shouldn't be the only consideration when you're shopping. Customer service counts for a lot too IMHO.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

halekai36 said:


> West Marine
> P.S. With my commercial discount at Hamilton I paid considerably less than $62.99 so WM is making a HUGE profit on just this one item!
> 
> Any more examples of what NOT to buy from Worst Marine??


Not always the case of profits... they used a fixed formula for markups above their supplier price. Sometimes their supplier is charging more than we pay for retail... a lot of strange things are going on in that corporation.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

In some cases, WM is over double the price of the lowest supplier. I seriously doubt that WM, with its size and economies of scale is going to be paying more than Defender's selling price for its wholesale price.


----------



## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

However! If you keep your eyes open, sometimes Worst Marine will have good deal. I got 200 feet of dyneema core samson line for 94 cents a foot. It was at least 2 bucks a foot everywhere I looked. Also, the Link 2000 is only $350 at WM, pretty good price.


----------



## Joel73 (Apr 23, 2007)

I like the way this thread is going... thanks Halekai!

I have a feeling this thread will save me some money this season.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I still don't understand you guys buying that "Anchor" crimper... its exactly the same (I checked) as the harbor freight one AND the $110 west marine one, but you can get it for less than $10...








economies of scale I guess


----------



## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

WM port supply acct. price on the Ancor crimper = $72.49. Still higher than retail at Hamilton. I'm doing a major refit and buying a LOT of stuff so I'm researching prices pretty carefully and what I have found is that there is not one single "best" place for everything. I have found the "lowest" price on items at: Fisheries Supply (commercial discount)(hardware), Pyacht(Nexus instruments), Mauri Pro(furling system), Online Marine (head), WM port supply (bbq), Daves Marine Electronics (VHF antenna, Xintex Propane control), etc. Some things are very close at all dealers and there can be large differences on other items. It pays to do a search on each significant item. For "need it now" items WM still gets a lot of my business, especially the Anacortes, WA store which has an amazing inventory for a small town outlet and some of the most knowledgable and friendly staff I have encountered in decades of marine shopping.

John


----------



## Digiital (Sep 10, 2001)

Sounds like those yahoo's who sell HDMI cables(3ft) for over $100. Means while you can get it online for less then $10


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailboy21 said:


> I still don't understand you guys buying that "Anchor" crimper... its exactly the same (I checked) as the harbor freight one AND the $110 west marine one, but you can get it for less than $10...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sailboy,
Where do you buy that for less than $10?


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Harbor Freight, purveyors of cheap tools.

Central Forge Ratcheting Crimper $14.99

I think Harbor Freight tools are of dubious quality. However, if you expect to beat the hell out of a tool or loose it over board, it might as well be a cheap one.


----------



## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

All of this just shows it pays to shop around - even for the little things. I go to WM only for items that I can't get elsewhere, or ideas of what's available - then I go home and shop the net to find the best price.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sapper,
I know from my woodworking days that Harbor Frieght does sell poor quality tools. Would not buy from them. the Central Forge crimpers look like the real thing. Maybe blue handle grips cost a lot more than red ones.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Tax Consequence*



TrueBlue said:


> Ordered 2 gallons of Micron Extra from Defender for $168/gal last Spring + $14 postage - delivered to me and no tax. West charged $225/gal + 7% tax and I would have had to lug them home.


I would be hesitent infering that I overlooked paying use tax in Michigan on any public forum. That could be an easy way to get ones tit in a ringer.


----------



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

teshannon said:


> Sailboy,
> Where do you buy that for less than $10?


While the handles may be the same, Ancor sources the handle from China (per Ancor product Mgr. when doing research for my article), the dies, which are the important part are not the same as Ancor has the dies made to their spec and the dies come from a different company altogether made specifically to the Ancor spec.

I purchased a pair of cheap double crimp ratcheting crimper's and sent them back because the dies were quite sharp and much different than the Ancor dies.

However, you could most likely buy that crimper for $10.00 then order a set of dies from Ancor for $14.00 and have a decent set of crimper's for $24.95.

Can you post a link to where we can buy those for ten bucks? I'll buy a second set and a pair of dies from Ancor to keep on the boat...

Edited to say:

Never mind I found the link and just ordered a set for $14.99 not $10.00. I'll order some dies later today..


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

teshannon said:


> Sapper,
> I know from my woodworking days that Harbor Frieght does sell poor quality tools. Would not buy from them. the Central Forge crimpers look like the real thing. Maybe blue handle grips cost a lot more than red ones.


You may be onto something. I hear the Blue #1 Cartel has a stranglehold on the market and they are holding back production to inflate cost. Way more dubious than the Red #40 embargo of the late sixties.


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

I have the harbor freight crimper. Test wires that I put together, I could not pull apart. If it works 90% as well as the ancor it's good enough. We're really talking about a controlled crush of a piece of metal around a wire.


----------



## xtatico1404 (Jan 20, 2008)

this is quickly becoming one of the best threads here LOL......VERY informative. I always knew that WM had pretty high prices, but not such a BIG difference. Great thread guys.


----------



## gtod25 (Aug 5, 2000)

*Watch out for changes in the next 6 months......*

First off I have to admit my involvement, I work in WM - part time as a lowly associate.

The previous CEO is gone - no further comments necessary.

The new CEO Geoff Eisenberg, goes back a long way with the old WM, ran a store or two, knows customers and, wait for it, is a "sailor". Suffice to say , all of us older cynics who have met him, are almost universally positive. This man gets boaters, because he is a boater.

Now WM will never be the cheapest gig in town. That's not the model. There will be price reductions, more knowledgeable staff in the stores, better quality products and more relevant products. Keep in mind that WM price matches local suppliers and I defy you to try and return some of the stuff I take back under the "no hassle return policy" to some of the budget retailers. (ask me about the three scratched up fenders some other time).

No one is defending prices that are way out of whack, so do your research, be a smart consumer.

If all this sounds like cheer leading, well sometimes you meet people that impress you.


----------



## blueranger (Jun 30, 2006)

I feel the need to chip in my 2 cents; if you sail in northern Utah and need sailboat hardware Saturday morning because of a rigging failure Friday night you're a happy camper that West Marine is there as they're the only game in town. 

I also got incredibly invaluable advice from some of the more knowledgable cruisers who work there to restock the kitty. A guy whose done several ocean crossings can give really good advice about what constitutes a strong setup for standing rigging. 

As in my other pursuits, the price of something isn't always the most important consideration about where to purchase. Then again I pretty much have no idea what I'm doing so maybe this just applies to us beginners. I agree if you just need bumpers or docklines that the generic boaters outlets stores are WAY better.

Mike


----------



## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

West did a nice price match for me when I was buying high-test chain awhile back, although the manager was somewhat reluctant. They met defenders online price which if I remember, was significantly lower. 
It's a shame that you have to "bargain" with West to get them to bring their prices down to what should be their everyday low price..... 
Since WM bought out BOAT US, they must feel that they have a monopoly on the marine retail market and can therefore set their prices as high as they want...Think they are reading any of this???? Maybe we can sway their thinking


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

As far as Boat US goes, I think they just drastically reduced the cost of tow services on freshwater (Great Lakes etc.).


----------



## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

BOAT US insurance/towing is not owned by West Marine. WM just bought out the retail end. The founder of BOAT US has a house on the same creek as I do, It's quite a nice one too


----------



## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

gtod25 said:


> First off I have to admit my involvement, I work in WM - part time as a lowly associate.
> 
> The previous CEO is gone - no further comments necessary.
> 
> ...


I hope you're right and that WM will improve in the future. I think all of us want WM to succeed because if nothing else, the stores are convenient and (usually) well stocked. It's not feasible to order everything online because there's always that little emergency project that you need to take care of right now -- and not wait a week for the parts to show up. It's also unrealistic to think that WM stores will have the same prices as online retailers. There is a price to pay for convenience, and for being able to examine a part before you buy it. There's a balance there that WM needs to evaluate and then make sound decisions.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I disagree. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect WM to match or beat others prices, particularly when you consider their buying power. I never go to them if I can avoid it.


----------



## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

I noticed that none of you mentioned "Landfall Navigation." I've business with both WM and Landfall. Landfall's prices are lower but there are times when I have to consider the shipping costs also. But always had good service from Landfall. Shopped with them on the internet. Believe that they are in competition with SailNet here due to their doing business on the net. Or are they??


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

I'm just impressed that you guys seem to find what you are looking for at WM. Seems like everytime I go looking for something, they don't have it, or they have 1 on the shelf and I need 2. Often I would be happy to pay whatever they wanted to charge if they only had it on the shelf! They always tell me that they can order it for me. I happily reply that if I wanted to order it and wait a week, I could do that myself and spend half as much.


----------



## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

Every few months, it seems someone, somewhere pulls out some extreme example of price disparity betwee WM and some online source or local chandlery. 

No one ever claimed they were the cheapest or that they can stock every conceivable widget but they are the only one available when you need it now. They are also the only place you can go to touch, feel and see many new products not available elsewhere and we should pay a "price" for convenience, instant gratification and window shopping.

Clearly their markup is greater than the big box stores with which they are often compared on generic items while ignoring the inventory unique to a marine store.

There are as many products they sell at prices comparable or cheaper than their competitors which are conveniently and usually ignored when making these posts which serve no constructive purpose other than to bash.

When considering how easy it should be for most of us to obtain a Port Supply account, the prices are often cheapest of anyplace. If this is to serve any purpose other than to complain, we should be suggesting that everyone qualified obtain an account and no, I have no affiliation with WM, just an interest in objective and constructive comment.


----------



## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Well Shannon's Hardware here in Louisiana has about every thing for the commercial fleets that work the oilfields and shimping out of here. Thus you can get a lot of things for your boat from them. Including 8" mooring lines... Well most of our sail boats don't need a line that big. But it is a good example.


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Boasun said:


> I noticed that none of you mentioned "Landfall Navigation."


I shop Landfall. I like that they seem to have compiled all the "good stuff" and left out the extra stuff. You don't have to weed through a phone book sized cataloge to get just what you need. I bought my lead line sounder from them (back up for when the onboard electronic sounder finally eats it one day).

Lead Line Sounder


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

k1- I think you must have missed my post. They routinly don't have what I want and thus there is no "instant gratification". Example: a pair of snatch blocks that can handle 1/2" line. Each store, including their main store in Chicago carries only 1 of each kind. They offer to order a second one for me from Ronston for $125. Instead I choose to wait and get 2, 40 series snatch blocks from Garhauer (sp) that are better quality, stronger, and $90 each.

Most of their stores stock only small blocks for boats up to around 15'. This applies even to a local store that is 1/4 mi. from one of the largest harbors on the Great Lakes. WM has a lot of issues that extend well beyond just being over priced.


----------



## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

*I'll Bite*



k1vsk said:


> When considering how easy it should be for most of us to obtain a Port Supply account ...


K1 -- care to elaborate? How does one obtain a port Supply account, and what are its advantages?

Standing by.


----------



## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

Porfin
Port Suppy is their wholesale account business.
A few examples of what I just purchased:
Maxprop zinc - WM price $16; PS price $7
Zinc Coat Barnacle Barrier paint WM price $24; PS price $14
Marine-Tex Lg pkg WM price $43; PS price $24

You can buy anything they sell at WM using a PS account as well as order anything they don't sell directly.

Just do an intenret search for Port Supply to get account info. I obviously don't know if you would "qualify" but it's certainly worth trying


----------



## Lion35 (Sep 28, 2007)

I have to chime in on the Waste Marine bashing. I used to own stock in the company and to boot they're a local company for me. I understand most of the pricing differences are due to the convenience of having retail stores with the stuff in stock. However, as other have noted they don't have a lot in stock anymore and their policies can be insulting. 

(1) They stopped carrying bronze hardware (screws and bolts...), they sell bronze cleats but don't carry the bolts or screws to mount them?

(2) I needed a raw water strainer they didn't have in stock and they wanted me to pre-pay for the order, even thought the catalog had the price in black, not the red that denotes the "requires pre-payment". To me you can't have it both ways: We charge more for the convenience of having what you need, and if you need that you will have to pay for the order in advance.

(3) They don't stock wood screws, and the store staff will tell you to use sheet metal screws instead. I realize very few have wood boats these days but don't you guys need to do interior wood work? Does everyone use sheet metal screws (not the same at all)?


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Lion,
I'd be willing to bet you could get all that at Defender and have it on you door step in one or two days.


----------



## US27inKS (Feb 6, 2005)

West isn't the only ones. Replacement deck light bulb from forespar $24.60, Home depot $6.24.


----------



## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

Lion35 said:


> I have to chime in on the Waste Marine bashing. I used to own stock in the company and to boot they're a local company for me. I understand most of the pricing differences are due to the convenience of having retail stores with the stuff in stock. However, as other have noted they don't have a lot in stock anymore and their policies can be insulting.
> 
> (1) They stopped carrying bronze hardware (screws and bolts...), they sell bronze cleats but don't carry the bolts or screws to mount them?
> 
> ...


Generalities are not usually a good idea.
The WM store around here ALL carry bronze hardware of some sizes and lots of sizes of SS wood screws. 
Also, to my knowledge, they have ALWAYS required pre-payment on orders; the reason being us! That policy is typically intended to obviate the behavior of some customers who order stuff and never pick it up so who's fault is that?

Again, I don't see how bashing serves any useful purpose unless it is accompanied by some constructive suggestion(s) either 1. how we can buy stuff cheaper, or 2. how to get WM to change their business model.


----------



## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

k1vsk said:


> Just do an intenret search for Port Supply to get account info. I obviously don't know if you would "qualify" but it's certainly worth trying


K1 -- thanks. Just did the research, and here's the skinny from the Port Supply website:



www.portsupply.com said:


> Who are Port Supply's customers?
> 
> Port Supply offers competitive wholesale discounts for companies that are in the business, full time, of selling boats and/or selling or installing marine equipment. Accounts must maintain a minimum annual volume of $1500. Port Supply reserves the right to approve or deny an account the right to do business with Port Supply and is the sole authority for that decision.


I may be wrong, but my thinking is that in fact few of us SailNet lurkers are "in the business - full time - of selling boats and/or selling or installing marine equipment."

Thanks anyway -- don't take offense, I think I'll keep my rather suspicious opinion of WM pricing policies.


----------



## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

The don't carry hardware because the hardware store carries hardware (including brass and bronze fittings, wood screws etc..). 

There is no way WM can compete price wise for tools and hardware with the local Home Depot, True Value, Clements what have you. That's like asking 7-11 to charge the same price for a 2 liter bottle of coke as a Sam's club does.


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

k1vsk said:


> Generalities are not usually a good idea.
> .....
> Also, to my knowledge, they have ALWAYS required pre-payment on orders; the reason being us!
> ......
> Again, I don't see how bashing serves any useful purpose unless it is accompanied by some constructive suggestion(s) either 1. how we can buy stuff cheaper, .....


I've had the local WM store order me some items that I DID NOT pay for until they were in my hand at the counter. Some of those items retailed for more than $100($WM).

Constructive suggestions like WM is marking up item X, but I found item X over here for 40% less. I think that would satisfy "1. how we can buy stuff cheaper".

Here are two articles that SA posted on the front page about WM, relevent to our discussion.

Sales numbers

Conference Announcement


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

chuckles- You're right. (did I really say that out loud?) Unfortunatly, I still haven't heard any examples of what kinds of products WM CAN compete on. I wish they would complete/carry products that I need. I'd be happy to shop there and give them money if they would.


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

The WM which is near where my boat is does carry the magic cloth. It was almost $2.00 more then the catalog price.


----------



## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

Freesail99 said:


> The WM which is near where my boat is does carry the magic cloth. It was almost $2.00 more then the catalog price.


That's another beef I have with WM and other retailers of sorts.....they do not stand behind their catalog prices. Several times I have been shopping for a particular item only to find out that they jacked up the price in the store from what the catalog listed, even though the catalog was JUST released!!!! They should stand by the prices or leave the prices out of the blasted catalog.........


----------



## danjarch (Jun 18, 2007)

Some of the complaints that you guys are making our the same in the atomotive world. More of the part houses no longer carry what they used to. Like individual tap and dies or stainless metric screws. This is non other then a reflection of the shopping trends. Fewer people build or maintain they're own boats. Plus there are more and more throw away boats creeping unto the market. 

I agree that they have a crazy mark up and most of the retail space is giving over to apperal and froo froo crap. But this is why lowes is beating Home Depot in a lot of markets. Try get 50 , 1x6x8' cedar boards at a lowes. No dice man, but if you want to look at 400 instead of only 100 different knobs for your kitchen cabinets on the other hand. West marine has been going this way for awhile.

Modern retail is mesured in overhead per inch. If a product doesn't make enough to sit on the twelve inches of self space it sits on, then it's space will be reduced or it will no longer be stocked. Thats why you only find one when you need two. They don't want to tie up extra money or self space to hold a 5 snatch blocks for the 3 years it will take to sell them. Cause we all know if you ever need 5 snatch blocks at once your going to order them from somebody cheaper.


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

ehmanta said:


> That's another beef I have with WM and other retailers of sorts.....they do not stand behind their catalog prices. Several times I have been shopping for a particular item only to find out that they jacked up the price in the store from what the catalog listed, even though the catalog was JUST released!!!! They should stand by the prices or leave the prices out of the blasted catalog.........


I went to WM two months ago just to see what inflatables they had. There was the RU3 that looked interesting to me. They have a little display stand with the whole inventory of boats and the prices right in front of the RU3 on display. I turn to the RU3 page, price $999. I look up at the RU3 on display and it has a tag that says $1199. I asked if it were a mistake or a different model on the floor....nope. The answer (excuse) was that the display book was a year old and the prices had changed.

Soooo.... That boat had sat there for a year (at least) and gained $200 in retail value for collecting dust and using up floor space.


----------



## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

*Very amusing thread*

Change the company name to Harley-Davidson and the products to tires, head gaskets and chrome accessories and you'd sound like a bunch of HOG members

I worked in marketing for nearly thirty years, starting with taking the cash and handing the product to the customer and ending with a primary responsibility of drinking and joking with the vice presidents at the manufacturer.

So I have, perhaps, a different understanding of the processes that foster the situations you are complaining about.

WM has between 300 and 400 stores. Each with a manager who has *some* discretion and responsibility for stocking levels and merchandising as well as *limited* flexibility on pricing. An astute and energetic store manager with a cooperative DM may bring in close out items at very attractive prices or may mark down slow moving stock to free up shelf space. You may walk into one store and easily find everything you need along with attractive prices on select items. The next store may appear to have nothing but overpriced, useless trinkets. The Honolulu store is huge and filled with stuff but never seemed to have what I needed. The Port Townsend store is small but always seemed to have the right stuff at the right price.

Pricing is what it is based on product cost, operating expenses and market conditions and you will always be able to find cheaper prices on the internet if you are willing to wait, pay freight and take the risk that you will get the wrong item or, worse, not get it at all.

In my experience, West Marine Associates have generally been knowledgeable boaters who often have first hand experience with the products they sell. For myself, I would prefer to buy from a store where I can hold the product in my hand, discuss it with someone who knows what they are talking about and take it home with me rather than look at a picture and order on the internet and wait a week to see if the item is, in fact, what I want. It is also nice to be able to easily return the item for and exchange or refund. _(BTW, it is bad karma to go the the retail store to try on shoes because they keep them in stock, get advice from the salesman then go order them on the internet to save a couple of bucks. I consider that practice tantamount to stealing.)_

Of course, if something you need is not in stock locally and you have the manufacturers or distributors item ID number or SKU so you can be certain of getting the correct item, by all means, order on line rather than have the store order for you. You will save time and money. I have noticed that WM on line prices are sometimes lower than in-store prices. In places like Hawaii, even including the freight.

As someone pointed out earlier, WM has a new president and CEO who's focus seems to be more on the customer. The store managers and DMs seem to like the guy. At the recent WM managers meeting in Orlando, they announced across the board price reductions and a return to focusing on the boating customer. I won't be buying any stock just yet, but I will be keeping an eye on what the new CEO is doing over the next 12 months.

_Disclosure: My wife is a WM Store Manager_


----------



## Lion35 (Sep 28, 2007)

> Generalities are not usually a good idea.


I'm sorry if I offended anyone but I thought my comments were relative to the thread. I should have said "my local WM store" to avoid any generalities but the three issues are direct experiences and I personally wouldn't put them into the category of generalities. Corporate HQ is 10 miles from our harbor and I, wrongly on the bronze hardware, assumed our store was representative of most stores.

I fully expect to have to pay in advance for special orders and that has always been WM policy, but I maintain that paying in advance for a catalog item that is supposed to be "in stock" is a joke. In particular (not in general), my example of a grocco strainer that was listed in the catalog in black ink, not the red ink that signifies a special order. The cover of the catalog says "over (some very large amount) of items in stock" and I believe this is a misrepresentation. The justification for their price premium is having what you need in stock and 10 years ago, they had the stuff.

My local WM store stopped carrying bronze hardware and wood screws several years ago; it's good news and encouraging to me that some stores still do carry bronze and wood screws. 


> The don't carry hardware because the hardware store carries hardware (including brass and bronze fittings, wood screws etc..).


I don't think you'll find bronze hardware at a general hardware store (aside from plumbing), but maybe you're hardware stores are better than the ones I've checked over the years.

I don't expect to go into a store that specializes in marine goods and get advice from them that sheet metal screws are the same as wood screws, for me it just annoyed me, but how many people would say OK; I'll just use the sheet metal screws? Service and knowledge are also part of the justification for the price premium.

My overall point is that it is expected and reasonable to charge a premium for having the items in stock and having a knowledgeable staff (I thought this was the topic of this thread), but if you have to pre-pay for items in the catalog and wait for the order how do they justify the premium price and what is the advantage of shopping there for anything but the "must have it now and I hope they actually have it in the store items?"

As far as how to change their policies:

I sold my stock because of the changes they were going through. This is how the system is supposed to work.

I shop elsewhere for everything but the odd must have it now item that they actually have. This is also, how the system is intended to work.


----------



## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

Sapperwhite said:


> I went to WM two months ago just to see what inflatables they had. There was the RU3 that looked interesting to me. They have a little display stand with the whole inventory of boats and the prices right in front of the RU3 on display. I turn to the RU3 page, price $999. I look up at the RU3 on display and it has a tag that says $1199. I asked if it were a mistake or a different model on the floor....nope. The answer (excuse) was that the display book was a year old and the prices had changed.
> 
> Soooo.... That boat had sat there for a year (at least) and gained $200 in retail value for collecting dust and using up floor space.


Like this doesn't happen at ANY store - headline - prices go up!

By the way, if you know the dinghy has been there a year, you didn't say so - what you said is the catalog price you quoted is one year old!


----------



## FormerAdministrator (Jan 10, 2000)

halekai36 said:


> West Marine - Ancor Products Ratcheting Crimper $104.95
> 
> Hamilton Marine - Ancor Products Ratcheting Crimper $62.99
> 
> ...


sure many - but here is just one:

West Marine: $84.99 West Marine: Cable Crimper - Heavy Product Display

shop.sailnet.com: $55.87
ANCOR LUG CRIMPER Shop.Sailnet.com - sailing resources, shopping, sail, blogs


----------



## Lion35 (Sep 28, 2007)

> I still haven't heard any examples of what kinds of products WM CAN compete on.


In the interest of providing both sides of the story, I have a pair of their binocluars and I'm happy with them and the price I paid.


----------



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

You're all a bunch of cry babies....

Try buy anything in Europe...easy 30% over what you buy in WM, or anywhere in the US, plus 21% sales tax...

You cry of hunger after having a meal......whiners

To me WM is still very very cheap, and I go there everytime I can, why?? because most internet suppliers in the US now don't accept VISA cards over the phone if the address is from abroad.....like if we were thiefs...there is abroad...and abroad....don't compare Swedish VISA with Guatemala VISA....example is AOL....

I bought ll my gear in the old Sailnet, because they accepted my credit card, and I honored them with Thousands of Euros!!! Try that now....


----------



## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

administrator said:


> sure many - but here is just one:
> 
> West Marine: $84.99 West Marine: Cable Crimper - Heavy Product Display
> 
> ...


same crimper available from Amazon for $59 (no shipping) if you have an account. I think it comes as no surprise to anyone that brick&mortar stores are more expensive than internet warehouses.

Lion - this may be semantics but the red indicates special order, not back order from the warehouse. To WM or any retailer, there is a difference.


----------



## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

*Speaking of binoculars...*



Lion35 said:


> In the interest of providing both sides of the story, I have a pair of their binocluars and I'm happy with them and the price I paid.


I almost purchased a pair of WM Tahiti binoc's at the Chicago sail show --Practical Sailor rated them highly, and they felt good in my hands. The WM booth had them on sale for $199, which is $100 less than retail. I elected not to buy at that time.

WM now has the binoc's on sale on their website for the same $199 price I spotted at the show. However, the local WM is still selling them for $299. I haven't yet pushed the point to see if the local store will adhere to the WM price matching policy



www.westmarine.com said:


> *Price Match Policy*
> Price matching policies may vary between West Marine stores, Catalog and Internet. West Marine Catalog and westmarine.com guarantees the lowest price available from any competitor on identical items we carry. Our store locations do not match pricing on products featured on internet websites, *other than westmarine.com*. Please note that price matching cannot be combined with coupons or other promotional offers. Prices and offers are subject to change.


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

k1vsk said:


> Like this doesn't happen at ANY store - headline - prices go up!
> 
> By the way, if you know the dinghy has been there a year, you didn't say so - what you said is the catalog price you quoted is one year old!


The same dingy had been sitting there a year, well it moved around the store every month or so with different displays in it. Fishing gear one month, beach going stuff the next, etc. etc.. I go into the store quite a bit, and (GASP) I even buy stuff. My local store has a selection of books thats rivals Barnes and Nobles sailing selection, that draws me in alot. I use WM, but I can also point out their glaring markups and not feel bad at all about it.

HEADLINE- When prices go up, make the catalog that sits on a pedastal in front of that product (literally sits 2 feet in front of the boat) reflect the price change! Then there would be no raised eyebrows or questions asked.

Also, the boat in question (RU3) is no longer carried by WM. It has been replaced by another model, RU260 I believe. They jacked the price on an old boat that is no longer stocked by WM. Not exactly trying to clear up that shelf space for the new product are they?


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> .....You cry of hunger after having a meal......whiners....


Why do you think Americans are so fat


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I'm inclined to side with T34c on this matter. The limited stock is of more concern to me than the prices. I'll pay the 10% difference that sailingdog's list seems to average for the ability to hold it in my hands and have it today.

Returns. You walk back in a week or two later to return something to the salesman you bought it from. You lost the receipt out the window ior something. It doesn't matter. You and the salesman have a mutually beneficial relationship. He takes it back no questions asked. What's that worth? Oh, and on the way out-he tells you where the steelhead are running. Try that on your plastic box.

Shopping. Most people don't know how to do it beyond comparing a few prices here and there. Most of the big box stores and WM will dicker on things worth dickering over. As vega mentioned, they've got some latitude in this. And the goal is to get the stuff out the door. Last year, I pulled a price out of my head, based not on a competitor's price-but what I thought was reasonable and I was willing to pay, on a whisker pole. I know it'd been sitting there for two years and it amazingly was just the length I needed. The manager, after I said, "if you'll take $XYZ for this I'll buy it", did a quick check and wrote up the sale. At home, I discovered that I'd paid about exactly what Defender would have charged me, less the shipping and handling charges. But most people don't dicker. 

These guys are in business to make money. And if you don't ask, they're going to sell it to you at full retail. Whose fault is that? I do the same at Home Depot. I expressly waited until they only had two pressure washers left in stock, with one being the display model. The display model was marked down to "get it out of here" pricing. I merely stated that I'd be willing to give them the same price for the one still in the box. The smart guy walking in after me probably got $50 knocked off the display model as well.

It's foolish to think that WM will be competetive on everything. They sell a lot of radios so they can afford to stock all those stainless bolts-or at least that's the theory. I'd like to see them carry yet more hardware as T34C said.

Let's not compare them to on-line shopping. Nobody really likes on-line shopping once you've gotten past the price. Certain things yes, but a lot of the stuff you and I buy at WM, we want to hold in our hands first. On-line, we don't even know if we're going to get a snatch block or a sex toy in the mail the following week. And nobody has a catalog that can compete with WM's unless you'd like to spend $75 to receive the Mariner's Annual each year (and you don't).

As I see the bottom line, we all want WM to be just like Grainger where we walk in and open the catalog and either go get it from out back, or have it the following morning, and we want to pay wholesale prices. And we're willing to spend $4-500 maybe per year at their store. That might seem like a lot to us, but it's obviously not as their Port Supply discount kicks in at $1500.

For me, I wish they had more in their store (don't we all?) and, when I need it, I'm willing to pay that 10% more. And usually what I need isn't a big ticket item., it's usually a bunch of little stuff and an impulse buy that all adds up. If the mark-up is so astronomical and the business so good, you'd think that you'd see competitors just sprouting up all over. That you don't indicates that it's a tougher business than you'd think it is to make a buck.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Sapper,
I'd have found the store manager and offered him $150 under the old price. If you didn't do this how do you know he wouldn't have taken the deal? There's a real good chance he's tired of looking at it.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

k1vsk said:


> Generalities are not usually a good idea.
> The WM store around here ALL carry bronze hardware of some sizes and lots of sizes of SS wood screws.
> Also, to my knowledge, they have ALWAYS required pre-payment on orders; the reason being us! That policy is typically intended to obviate the behavior of some customers who order stuff and never pick it up so who's fault is that?
> 
> Again, I don't see how bashing serves any useful purpose unless it is accompanied by some constructive suggestion(s) either 1. how we can buy stuff cheaper, or 2. how to get WM to change their business model.


Sorry but I don't view this as WM bashing. We all spend a large part of our income every year keeping our vice afoat and sailing. Anytime we can save some of that money and still get quality products and service I want to know about it. Some people like WM and that's just fine, continue shopping there. Others don't as you can see and they go elsewhere. I'm one of those that go elsewhere. I for one think this thread is usefull in sharing our experiences and finding other resources to fill our needs. That's what makes Sailnet such an excellent resource.


----------



## danjarch (Jun 18, 2007)

I think they may have forgotten thet they have competitors. A few years back Home Depot was cutting back on they're marine parts. Seems they've started carring more in the last couple of years. I'd bet thats why WM is changing its stategy. Doubt they ever thought wally world and ace were competitors. OOPs


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> Sapper,
> I'd have found the store manager and offered him $150 under the old price. If you didn't do this how do you know he wouldn't have taken the deal? There's a real good chance he's tired of looking at it.


I didn't want the boat after inspecting it up close. Like you said, it looks good online until you have it in your hand.....who knows. I ended up getting an Achilles LSI 88 for less than the RU3 because the my marina shop (who happens to be an Achilles dealer) is currently cleaning house big time. The point was the inconsistency between the catalog price and the tag that was swinging from the life line.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Mr. Sailnet Administrater,
I'm not sure you REALLY want to get in on this discussion. While your price is indeed substantially lower, the example you show is one of far to few where one can compare apples and apples. Like many, if not most, internet sites sailnet's requires that the buyer have the exact model number in hand, and be willing to ignore what the picture may or may not look like, on the chance of ending up ordering the item he desires. The dirty little secret is that most of us use the WM catalog for a great amount of research. Research that we are unable to do on sailnet's site or very few others.

We'd LOVE to do more business with sailnet, if we could just figure out what in the heck we are looking at in your "store".


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Portagee,
You get to pay those radically higher prices in Yurrup so you can come back later and brag about all the free things you get like health care and college education. You're an evil capitalist for not buying in Yurrup and are probably taking food out of Yurrup babie's mouths. You wear Izod shirts because you are a lizard! (g)


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

While I'm not generally wanting to shop at WM... it depends on what I'm doing... and who's paying for it... and what the time frame is. I have a pretty good relationship with the people at the WM near my marina, and they'll generally match internet prices for me, as well as special order stuff without requiring me to pre-pay it... One significant problem with WM for me is that even if WM has the exact same item at the exact same price, on high ticket items, they'll generally be 5% more expensive, since they have to charge sales tax, and the internet companies generally don't--shipping sometimes makes this a wash...especially on heavier items... but most of the times the shipping is less than the 5% tax... especially on higher priced items.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

In house WM has matched or almost matched every big ticket item that I have needed for my current vessel. Maybe it all depends if one is a good customer, as in a frequent and reliable customer? The internet WM features free shipping on orders over $100 US. Maybe Vega has a comment to my posative long term experience? Alex had a great comment, what a bunch of whinners!


----------



## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

From a cruisers viewpoint, I have more of a problem with their store locations, than their prices. Many, if not most places, the store is on the edge of town, far away from the water.


----------



## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

OK; I'll chime in...

WM -was- the Wal-Mart of boating when they were mostly catalog-based; NOW they are an overpriced beast that just keeps raising prices with every new catalog edition. I for one consumer don't like getting a phone-book catalog stuffed in my mailbox that is little more than a book full of "improved" (+15%) prices! If they'd just drop the prices to something reasonable (like -30%, maybe more) I'd do more looking. I think that could be accomplished by publishing/shipping a bi-annual catalog (LOL). Take some notes from the other WM "Always Low Prices... Always" and they will get more buyers. Right now they act like they are the only game in town; and they are not.

What they did in the 80's-90's was low price catalog retail/wholesale and put almost every mom&pop marine hardware store/chandlery out of business. The last 10 years they have been pumping up the prices and opening more stores so they can become the only game in town. The price increases are likely to pay for purchase of BoatUS and new store construction. Now they are over priced relative to the market; in some cases above MSRP. I don't like higher than street prices; and don't care to shop at a 7-11 store when they usually don't have the exact item I need out of the phone-book catalog. If I browse the store they usually don't have enough to do any one particular job anyway; so not much use in going to them to begin with. If I have to wait I'd just assume order/save/have it arrive on my doorstep. In many cases going to WM in search of boat parts is a waste of money in both overhead and the gas to drive there. Now and then I will find what I'm looking for if it is small and while browsing I will look through the store for closeout items. What I miss most about WM is the Oakland Bargain Center (discontinued/clearance/non-stocked); when it closed I bought about 2k worth of stuff at 90% discount.

The problem with WM is that it went reverse big-box. If they had stuck to their catalog sales, and parlayed that into internet-only sales they would be beating everyone on price and keep the overhead so low they would be much more profitable. Instead they put the locals out of business and now they can't compete with online discounters. I still can't figure out why they bought up BoatUS to try and turn more profit (but maybe they are making so much money on their over-priced stuff it does not matter much). All in all they have been very successful at becoming the biggest marine supplier in North America (except most boaters who do thier own maintenance work end up hating them)...

Here are a few posts on this thread I find VERY funny:



vega1860 said:


> In my experience, West Marine Associates have generally been knowledgeable boaters who often have first hand experience with the products they sell. For myself, I would prefer to buy from a store where I can hold the product in my hand, discuss it with someone who knows what they are talking about...


What WM is that; the one located in Heaven??!!?? Around here most WM associates can't find the product location on the shelf let alone tell you what it does... OK I'll admit that each store has one, maybe two people who know their stuff; but the vast majority of the salespeople are just register clerks.



danjarch said:


> The don't carry hardware because the hardware store carries hardware (including brass and bronze fittings, wood screws etc..).


Again, this supports the theory that most WM stores are set-up to be a boater's 7-11; not a marine chandlery/ MARINE HARDWARE store. They don't carry what does not "move". That's not what a marine hardware store is about. I know; I worked for a "real" hardware store when I was in college. That store is still in business and competes with two HD's and two Ace Hardware stores that are within 3 miles of that Mom&Pop store; and I'd be willing to wager that there is more "stuff" in that store than the HD and Ace stores combined!! It's stocked to the cieling with real hardware/home items you can use! If it does not sell it gets something stacked in front of it; but it's still there if someone needs it!



Sapperwhite said:


> I bought my lead line sounder from them (back up for when the onboard electronic sounder finally eats it one day). (link to LFN price ~$90)


Could someone explain to me WHY on earth woud you spend 90 bucks for a a piece of string with a weight on the end?!!?? I mean you could almost buy a new depth finder for that much! Or for 10 bucks could you could make your spare with an old rope and a weight; and save the 80 for when you need the new depthfinder.



giulietta said:


> You're all a bunch of cry babies....To me WM is still very very cheap, and I go there everytime I can...


Easy to say when the Euro is 40% higher than the dollar; and you don't have to pay sales tax. When WM goes global and puts all of your local retailers out of business; THEN raises prices to 40% higher than your online retailers you will be bashing them too! Just wait/keep buying from them...it will happen...just wait...!!!! 

Sorry guys, not trying to start a flame war; but sometimes I fail to see the logic...


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

My local store does not have a lot of sailing stuff, most of it sat on the shelf for 18-24 months, so mgr got rid of it. If you need it today, he says, go to Fisheries in Seattle, or he can order, and have it on Mondays store ship if ordered by wed or thurs. He does match local prices, and many times beats other local prices. 

Locally, the Anacortes store as mentioned, HUGE! on old safeway store from the 60's to early 70's. They have lots of stuff there, more than the main W Wa store in Seattle!

Otherwise, is you like to shop, then do not look at WM, if you need it now, they sometimes have it, or can get it!

I also got the recent Fisheries catalog, they list "MSRP" prices at the time of publishing! If you want current cost, then you need to go online, or to the store! At least you know what they carry, what to find or you need, model #S etc.

Any way, that is my .02 on this subject!

marty

ps to administrator,

For me anyway, I think as mentioned, getting around your store, a PITA compared to others. Prices are ok.


----------



## Lion35 (Sep 28, 2007)

> I almost purchased a pair of WM Tahiti binoc's at the Chicago sail show --Practical Sailor rated them highly, and they felt good in my hands.


ProFin that's the ones I have (center focus and compass), it was a Christmas present from my SO year before last and she got them on sale for 199. Great price and so far I'm very happy with them.


----------



## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

I am sure WM can match prices if you really ask them for it - but why bother? Defender and Hamilton Marine are so much cheaper, and I don't have to beg them for a lower price - it's already there. 

In fact, after buying a LOT of stuff from Defender I also got a really good deal on some big ticket items - such as getting a boat show pricing without actually going to the show (psst, don't tell anyone  ).


----------



## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

blt2ski said:


> My local store does not have a lot of sailing stuff, most of it sat on the shelf for 18-24 months, so mgr got rid of it.


You would think that here in the SF Bay Area every Worst Marine store would be required to keep a full selection of sailing hardware/gear. The central bay is 75% or more sailboats; yet the hardware selection for sailboats is not very good at the stores. It makes me laugh because they end up selling everything at discount; mainly because nobody shops for their regular sailboat needs at WM stores. Berkeley WM was closed; that means people in Berkeley/Emeryville are buying elsewhere. Svendsens in Alameda is always buzzing with business even in the middle of winter...


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

While we can rip WM apart for their lousy pricing, I do have to admit that their website is one of the most informative, as an online website/catalog goes. They often have fairly detailed information that other online stores are sometimes lacking.

They have a lot of good information that is easily accessible, but not always quite up to date. For instance, a recent e-mail from them had a link to a page on safety gear, located *here* if you want to see it. But the page still recommends getting Class B EPIRBs for coastal use. Class B EPIRBs were phased out and are now illegal for use as of this past January.

Their paper catalog has a lot of good information in it as well.


----------



## rperret (Apr 11, 2003)

well - i have gotten prices at WM that were lower than Defender and it was during their big sale in March. My local WM will match defender pricing on like items. and depending upon the clerk that is working there - they often won't account for S&H...

i tend to spread my buying amongst defender, local independent marine store, WM, and home depot.

ok this subject has been beaten to death...not that I am a fan of west marine...


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

I have to take exception with the idea that WM should become more like WalMart. I don't think I want a good price for some Chinese POS that lasts about 2 months and either breaks or poisons me.


----------



## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

I think the general consensus is that we all like the IDEA of a brick and mortar West Marine, but they need improvement in the way of realistic pricing and having the right stock. _*IF*_ they would listen to us,LOL, then maybe we would have a marine store worth going to!!!


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

KeelHaulin said:


> OK; I'll chime in...
> 
> Could someone explain to me WHY on earth woud you spend 90 bucks for a a piece of string with a weight on the end?!!?? I mean you could almost buy a new depth finder for that much! Or for 10 bucks could you could make your spare with an old rope and a weight; and save the 80 for when you need the new depthfinder.
> 
> Sorry guys, not trying to start a flame war; but sometimes I fail to see the logic...


Sure, I can explain why. The idea is to have a back up for when you're ON THE WATER. Kinda hard to rewire a new depth sounder while you're out and about. As far as being able to "almost buy a new depth finder for that much!", I don't think so. If you could recommend me that shop, that'd be fantastic. And finally,having an old rope with a weight, I like to have nice things. I prefer my $90 "piece of string with a weight on the end" over an old piece of rope with a rock duct taped to the end.

Keep in mind my $90 piece of string with a weight on the end can be a back up for the failure of the transducer, the display unit, or even a total electrical system failure. I guess you could do the same thing with a rock taped to the end of an old rope stuffed into a black trash bag.

My original post about Landfall was just to give an example of how they don't try to be a marine version of Wallmart. They don't carry every piece of junk just to say they have a big inventory. I'm sure if WM carried my $90 piece of string it would quickly become a $150 piece of string.


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

*As far as being able to "almost buy a new depth finder for that much!", I don't think so. If you could recommend me that shop, that'd be fantastic*.

Eagle Cuda 168 Fish Finder

Just playing the devils advocate. You could install the transducer to "shoot-thru-hull" ahead of time and either prewire it for emergency use or direct wire to the battery in case of major emergency. And still have money left over from the $90 "weight and string".


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

T34C said:


> *As far as being able to "almost buy a new depth finder for that much!", I don't think so. If you could recommend me that shop, that'd be fantastic*.
> 
> Eagle Cuda 168 Fish Finder
> 
> Just playing the devils advocate. You could install the transducer to "shoot-thru-hull" ahead of time and either prewire it for emergency use or direct wire to the battery in case of major emergency. And still have money left over from the $90 "weight and string".


Thanks, but Jessica Anne isn't a bass boat.


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Sapperwhite said:


> Thanks, but Jessica Anne isn't a bass boat.


Understand. They actually do work shockingly well. There are a lot of good reason to know what the bottom contour looks like, not just how far down it is. More data is generally preferable to less.


----------



## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

Funny... Bass boat boaters get all the good prices!! We sailors are a more espensive crowd who prefer a simple numerical readout for 3x the price (LOL).

I was only pointing out that if you are budget conscious there is a much cheaper way; like taking a used prop shaft zinc or two and tying a bowline around them with a used line. I know; if the line is too thick, looks ugly, etc, etc. Nice boats deserve to be equipped with nice things; so if you can afford that $100 lead line go for it! I'd rather buy something else first and know how to make a lead line if I need it (I have a depthfinder that is going kaput also). I'd like to replace it with a depthfinder that sounds through the hull; and connects to NMEA 0183 so it will repeat on the helm mounted chartplotter.


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

KeelHaulin said:


> Funny... Bass boat boaters get all the good prices!! We sailors are a more espensive crowd who prefer a simple numerical readout for 3x the price (LOL).


It is interesting that sailing is still viewed as a rich mans sport despite evidence to the contrary. Fishing is considered a sport for "good 'ol boys" even though they have an international tour and new bassboats regularly cost upwards of $40k. The money spent for an AC campaign is less than what it would cost an NFL team to sign a good middle linebacker.


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Keelhaulin

I wasn't trying to sound like a *****, just explaining my thought process. I get the idea of pre wiring the the fish finder. I just would rather have the lead line to use as my contingency sounder. Its just to be used until i get to where i can repair or replace the current electronic one. Yes, more info is better, but this is just for back up. 

BTW Garmin makes some nice chartplotter/fishfinder integrated units.

As far as being budget minded...I'm not. I kinda like spending my money on nice things. However, if WM has item x for $34.99 and some other store has it for $9.99 (like my brass thermometer) well the choice is simple. No sense in throwing extra money at what I want or need. 

You're right, an old flag halyard knotted every fathom with an old prop zinc at the end will do the same thing as mine, but I like the look and feel of mine.

sorry about the sounder/lead line hijack.....

back to crying you crybabies


----------



## LarryandSusanMacDonald (Apr 3, 2005)

Nobody wants to pay the big price. However, you will have to, sooner or later, buy from West Marine. I worked there for a short time on our last cruise (ran out of money) and I can tell you the employee discounts are phenomenal and they still make money. (e.g. $29.95 dinghy bailing pump - with emp. disc. $8.48 . Their wholesale was somewhere around $5.00 and change. Yeah, there are still pirates out there - they just moved ashore where the real money is. If you can finagle a Port Supply Card (not difficult) you can save quite a bit. West marine does not pay well but if you're outfitting a boat it may be worthwhile getting a job there. Where I worked there were several who were only there for the discount - West (at least in Fla.) only paid $7 or $8 an hour. Also - take your Defender Catalog with you - I think they still do price matching.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

LarryandSusanMacDonald said:


> I think they still do price matching.


they only price match for local competitor on identical product.. no longer will they match defender (unless you live in CT), or anything online.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

That doesn't make me want to deal with WM at all... if they sell the pump for $29.95, and it costs them $5.00 or so... thant means they're getting a 500% profit margin on the item... Most retail businesses have less than a 15% markup on average.

BTW, West Marine's new price-matching policy clearly states they don't have to match Defender's prices, since Defender is an "internet" retailer.



LarryandSusanMacDonald said:


> Nobody wants to pay the big price. However, you will have to, sooner or later, buy from West Marine. I worked there for a short time on our last cruise (ran out of money) and I can tell you the employee discounts are phenomenal and they still make money. (e.g. $29.95  dinghy bailing pump - with emp. disc. $8.48 . Their wholesale was somewhere around $5.00 and change. Yeah, there are still pirates out there - they just moved ashore where the real money is. If you can finagle a Port Supply Card (not difficult) you can save quite a bit. West marine does not pay well but if you're outfitting a boat it may be worthwhile getting a job there. Where I worked there were several who were only there for the discount - West (at least in Fla.) only paid $7 or $8 an hour. Also - take your Defender Catalog with you - I think they still do price matching.


----------



## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

sailingdog said:


> That doesn't make me want to deal with WM at all... if they sell the pump for $29.95, and it costs them $5.00 or so... thant means they're getting a 500% profit margin on the item... Most retail businesses have less than a 15% markup on average.
> 
> BTW, West Marine's new price-matching policy clearly states they don't have to match Defender's prices, since Defender is an "internet" retailer.


that my be the cost of the item fob china no retailer operates at 15% margin of cost of goods sold. one off the best examples i know of is mattress. a high end S&F is bought buy bloomies at a little over $700 it is sold for $4,200. but you free delivery.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

What would you know about good middle linebackers? (g)


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

It's definitely the "silly season". We've got ten pages on how not to crimp an electrical wire, or was that how-to, I zoned out after awhile on that one. So, for lack of anything better to do, it must be time for our annual lynching of West Marine. We're always good for ten pages of the same stuff, every year. And every year, WM still can't see their way clear to sell us stuff at less than cost! (g) Those bozo's are just holding that company back. Good night!


----------



## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

Someone makes a post bashing WM and 97 comments follow. Please someone post a picture of a gorgeous blonde in a bikini so we can have something constructive to complain about.


----------



## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> It's definitely the "silly season"... So, for lack of anything better to do, it must be time for our annual lynching of West Marine.


I think it coincides with the delivery of their 2008 catalog; mine arrived last week!

500% mark-up; that equates to only 300% at "the good guys" like Defender. Unfortunately hardware is that way; including HD and Ace. The only items sold at a relatively low margin are 3/4" or less iron plumbing fittings and small fasteners at a hardware store. When it comes to marine hardware the mark-up is even more because of the MFR wholesale price and the fact that it is "marine grade".


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Hey...they lynched their CEO...so they are moving in the right direction but let's see what the new guy does. Conference call on the last quarter and outlook for 2008 will be live on line in about 10 days so it will be interesting to hear what he says about their future direction. 
Remember to check here and give Sailnet your business when it makes sense for you to do so. That's what keeps this place going!!


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Cam-cam,
We already discussed sailnet's wonderful store some post's back. Are you trying to keep this thread in competition with the crimping thread?

Oh yeah, I'll be penciling in WM's conference call on my social calender. I'd sooner be photographed in bed with a short, fat, balding Portagee!


----------



## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> Remember to check here and give Sailnet your business when it makes sense for you to do so. That's what keeps this place going!!


I'm planning to buy a new set of sails and a main sail cover in the next year, I'm looking at Sailnet which is FX sails. Also looking to replace helm instruments.


----------



## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> Cam-cam,
> We already discussed sailnet's wonderful store some post's back. Are you trying to keep this thread in competition with the crimping thread?
> 
> Oh yeah, I'll be penciling in WM's conference call on my social calender. I'd sooner be photographed in bed with a short, fat, balding Portagee!


Hey Cheese-brain! How's sailing, err, I mean your basement?


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Sapperwhite said:


> Sales numbers
> 
> Conference Announcement


Here are those links to the conference again if anybody missed them, anyone can attend i believe.


----------



## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Just to mix threads, I saw a ratcheting crimper at Radio Shack today for $42. There's probably a metaphor to mix in there somewhere, but I'm not an English major. I have read a lot about English Admirals though


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Which instruments are you looking to replace???


denby said:


> I'm planning to buy a new set of sails and a main sail cover in the next year, I'm looking at Sailnet which is FX sails. Also looking to replace helm instruments.


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

k1vsk said:


> Someone makes a post bashing WM and 97 comments follow. Please someone post a picture of a gorgeous blonde in a bikini so we can have something constructive to complain about.


WM sucks! At least she thinks so.


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Thanks sapper !


----------



## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Sapperwhite said:


> WM sucks! At least she thinks so.


I'm not complaining.


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Oh yeah, well this girl happens to enjoy WM. She likes Brick and Mortar shops and doesn't mind paying a little more.


----------



## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Which instruments are you looking to replace???


Dog,

I have a Data Marine Link 5000, the po did not leave a manual and I'm having problems with Speed and depth. Not shure if it's the main unit or the connections. It's 20 years old and it might be time to replace.


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

denby said:


> Dog,
> 
> I have a Data Marine Link 5000, the po did not leave a manual and I'm having problems with Speed and depth. Not shure if it's the main unit or the connections. It's 20 years old and it might be time to replace.


She says:

DMI services Data Marine units. They can probably help you out over the phone. If it's time to replace you can get new DMI instruments and not have to worry about fitting new holes, everything will measure the same.


----------



## Mwozniak (Feb 9, 2008)

4 nylon mainsail slides for $1.48 at Sailorman in Ft. Lauderdale
vs. $8.99 at WM just a few blocks away!


----------



## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

So who do you think would walk all that way in Fort Liquordale heat for a mere 83% discount?


----------



## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Sapperwhite said:


> She says:
> 
> DMI services Data Marine units. They can probably help you out over the phone. If it's time to replace you can get new DMI instruments and not have to worry about fitting new holes, everything will measure the same.


OK Sapper,

I'll buy from DMI if she comes with it and don't care if it's 400% more.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

*Poor seamanship*



Sapperwhite said:


> WM sucks! At least she thinks so.


See what happens when you allow the painter to chafe through? That lass should obviously have been secured below decks, preferably with something of either dacron, or perhaps silk, construction.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

*She's got your brick and mortar.*



Sapperwhite said:


> Oh yeah, well this girl happens to enjoy WM. She likes Brick and Mortar shops and doesn't mind paying a little more.


Not at all ironically, I immediately thought of structures constructed of brick upon opening the above post. That's the type of architecture that transcends the field itself; all the way from outhouses to naval efforts.


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Guess where I just got back from....... West Marine. Bought a few small items so I could finish a project today. As usual, I go in for one thing and come out with a shopping bag full of stuff. WM is good for something, but you gotta pay for it. This girl did not ring me up, but I bet she would have if she worked at WM.


----------



## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Sapperwhite said:


> Guess where I just got back from....... West Marine. Bought a few small items so I could finish a project today. As usual, I go in for one thing and come out with a shopping bag full of stuff. WM is good for something, but you gotta pay for it. This girl did not ring me up, but I bet she would have if she worked at WM.


She rang me up.


----------



## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

Sapperwhite said:


> Guess where I just got back from....... West Marine. Bought a few small items so I could finish a project today. As usual, I go in for one thing and come out with a shopping bag full of stuff. WM is good for something, but you gotta pay for it. This girl did not ring me up, but I bet she would have if she worked at WM.


I can see she is a good sailor, as she has a tether on the valuble item.


----------



## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

If those are the girls behind the cash registers, now I understand the pricing


----------



## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Barrel bolt WM - $31

Barrel bolt Defender - $12

Priceless:


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Nope, none of the cashiers at my local west marine stores look anything like that.


----------



## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

There's no board rash on that tummy.


----------



## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Nope, none of the cashiers at my local west marine stores look anything like that.


You havn't seen the red head at the Alameda store, Age related probably better.


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Sapperwhite said:


> Guess where I just got back from....... West Marine. Bought a few small items so I could finish a project today. As usual, I go in for one thing and come out with a shopping bag full of stuff. WM is good for something, but you gotta pay for it. This girl did not ring me up, but I bet she would have if she worked at WM.


Why does she look constipated?


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

NOt to confuse good stuff with the WM thread, but I was at a local WM today and was told they can now match Defender prices. Good to know.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Please post photo for proof... cause I don't believe you. 


SimonV said:


> You havn't seen the red head at the Alameda store, Age related probably better.


----------



## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Please post photo for proof... cause I don't believe you.


Good for you because Simon needs to get his eyes checked b4 he goes on his trip. Simon, the big red thing on your way out is not the girl at west marine, I repeat, do not steer towards the big red thing, it is the bridge, not the red head cashier at west marine! Although they are about the same girth. She has got a semi cute face though.


----------



## merttan (Oct 14, 2007)

Check out defender for the good deals... defender.com... so far the best prices versus all other marine stores I've been in...


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Because she saw Sapper trying to take her photo. 


T34C said:


> Why does she look constipated?


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Because she saw Sapper trying to take her photo.


Not an uncommon reaction.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Bf*

You are killing me man...my wife wants me off this computer and your making it way to hard to leave..

Man... I leave you guys alone for a few days and the thread disinigrates into a WM wall calendar...



bestfriend said:


> Good for you because Simon needs to get his eyes checked b4 he goes on his trip. Simon, the big red thing on your way out is not the girl at west marine, I repeat, do not steer towards the big red thing, it is the bridge, not the red head cashier at west marine! Although they are about the same girth. She has got a semi cute face though.


----------



## sanctuarysam (Sep 16, 2006)

*have been meaning to write about this*

two weeks ago, i did the spring thing on my boat. of course this also means the pilgrimage to wm in deltaville (2 stores w/in 1/4 mile of each other..btw)..and i spoke w/ the sales guys there..they said the same thing about the ceo..wants to take worst marine back to its roots..have on hand the stuff we sailor types need (you know..shackles, blocks the right size line).
anyway, i was markedly impressed this last time out..
i still shop defender, but wm did match everyone's price when i bought my garmin 3210 bundle.
so..time will tell, but i for one am encouraged.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Spartite...Large kit price---

200.00 @ West Marine + 8.4% tax + 10.00 gas= 226.80

175.00 @ Defender + 13.80 Shipping = 198.80

I would have to drive 40 miles round trip to be at West Marine to buy it..thats another 10.00 for gas...if I make a special trip..Most likely as they are out of my way

I expect to pay a little more for convenience... however I think at some point all retail outlets are going to have to factor in people cutting down on their driving costs...

20 bucks is not that great of differance 10% is all...I can live with that for convenience...thing is with a little pre planing and thinking ahead... having it delivered to me is CONVIENTENT...They have my buisness only as long as its convenient for me at there curent prices...I have no trips planed by there stores ...So I just ordered from Defender...should be here Saturday..

They are in a predicament even if they should have cheaper online products, by having a physical store here within the state they still would have to charge sales tax...somthing Defender dosent have to do...It's a tough buisness environment everywhere...If they are bigger and move more product then a lot of vender's they should demand a better factory price given other dealers or drop the product..


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

You guys do know that WM has a price match policy, don't ya? As long as it is the same item from the same manufacturer. Beats the heck out of paying shipping. You can find it on their web site. I printed out the Defender page, they checked it online and honored the price.

Bob C s/v Valkyrie, 1988 Irwin Citation 35.5


----------



## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

bob chaisson said:


> You guys do know that WM has a price match policy, don't ya? As long as it is the same item from the same manufacturer. Beats the heck out of paying shipping. You can find it on their web site. I printed out the Defender page, they checked it online and honored the price.
> 
> Bob C s/v Valkyrie, 1988 Irwin Citation 35.5


There have been mixed stories about wheather they would match Defender pricing or not. I just had a store mgr. tell me the other day that they would.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

They just re-did their price match policy and they DON"T HAVE TO price match with an internet-based business, which Defender.com would be, unless you live in Connecticut. Price matching is basically now up to the discretion of the manager of the store in question.



bob chaisson said:


> You guys do know that WM has a price match policy, don't ya? As long as it is the same item from the same manufacturer. Beats the heck out of paying shipping. You can find it on their web site. I printed out the Defender page, they checked it online and honored the price.
> 
> Bob C s/v Valkyrie, 1988 Irwin Citation 35.5


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Actually I live in Rhode Island which many believe to be a TOWN between CT and MA. I guess that makes us close enough to qualify. ;- )

Bob C s/v Valkyrie, Irwin Citation 35.5


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Wouldn't that be a small town?



Mark


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Yea! Small town. Cute, very cute! ;- )

Bob s/v Valkyrie, 1988 Irwin Citation 35.5


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Oh... is that what those two green signs between the Welcome to Connecticut and the Leaving Massachusetts signs are supposed to be all about??


----------



## sanctuarysam (Sep 16, 2006)

bob chaisson said:


> Actually I live in Rhode Island which many believe to be a TOWN between CT and MA. I guess that makes us close enough to qualify. ;- )
> 
> Bob C s/v Valkyrie, Irwin Citation 35.5


uhm..what i remember most about RI (block and newport notwithstanding, they live in their own world), it takes no time to transverse the state, assuming traffic isn't at a standstill..gotta love everyone's desire to be near the water...


----------



## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

sanctuarysam said:


> uhm..what i remember most about RI (block and newport notwithstanding, they live in their own world), it takes no time to transverse the state, assuming traffic isn't at a standstill..gotta love everyone's desire to be near the water...


Every body lives a block from the beach.


----------



## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> They just re-did their price match policy and they DON"T HAVE TO price match with an internet-based business, which Defender.com would be, unless you live in Connecticut. Price matching is basically now up to the discretion of the manager of the store in question.


I have the good luck of going by, or having one of my trucks going near Defender quite often. And I live One and 1/2 hours from there.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

SD;
I see you've been here. Dennis, not everyone lives a block from the beach. I live on the water, as in, in my boat, on the water. My girlfriend lives next door to the marina and can see my boat from her living room window. There is so much coastline in this state (for its size) that I think 5% of the population lives on the water and 90% (or more) are within 15 minutes of it. Oh yea, there is NO TAX on boats (eat your hearts out).

Bob C s/v Valkyrie, 1988 Irwin Citation 35.5


----------

