# Why Beneteau/Jenneau, never Catalina?



## armandolio

I am considering buying a boat to put into charter in the east coast or Caribbean. It seems like the major charter companies only use Beneteau and Jenneau, some Bavaria.

Out of all the production boats I have seen, the Catalinas appeal to me the most. 

What does it say about Catalina that charter companies do not use them? What does it say about the others?


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## Silvio

Probably says no more than the charter company's were able to negotiate a favorable purchase program with the Beneteau Group over other manufacturers. I don't think I would draw any more conclusions than that but maybe I'm wrong.


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## PalmettoSailor

Silvio said:


> Probably says no more than the charter company's were able to negotiate a favorable purchase program with the Beneteau Group over other manufacturers. I don't think I would draw any more conclusions than that but maybe I'm wrong.


+1.

Beneteau is a much larger company than Catalina and probably has greater ability to build to the Charter companies specifications, as well as sell at a deeper discount than Catalina.

When we were shopping we looked a lot of both boats and the pro's and con's of each brand seemed pretty even to where it came to to personal preference and how you weighed the trade offs each builder chose to hit similar price points.


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## tomandchris

When considering the charter in the BVI's route I was told that the French government offered tax credits to Bene/Jeaneau that dramatically lowered the price for boats destined for these destinations.. In addition, they offer the ability to customize the product for the charter market...thus more cabins and heads than production boats.

If you look at boats in the charter fleets in the US you will find a mix with the Catalina, Bene, Jenneau fairly evenly mixed


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## celenoglu

Benettau and Jeanneau are real production boats. Each firm finishes approximately 17 boats per day. Their main market is charter. They produce small floating hotels.


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## bljones

Also, European charter customers have a bias towards Euro boats a) because they are familiar and b ) because of a perceived quality bias over American boats.


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## PCP

celenoglu said:


> Benettau and Jeanneau are real production boats. Each firm finishes approximately 17 boats per day. Their main market is charter. They produce small floating hotels.


Their main market is charter implies that the majority of their boats are sold to charter companies. That is obviously not true. Compared to the total sales it is a small but significant percentage.

Regards

Paulo


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## PCP

bljones said:


> Also, European charter customers have a bias towards Euro boats a) because they are familiar and b ) because of a perceived quality bias over American boats.


 I don't think that is the point. Some American boats are very popular in Europe in their segment: J boats is an example. They are even made in France.

The point is that Europeans like more modern designed boats and Americans have a more traditional taste. I din't think you can call that a Bias, more a tendency.

That of course can explain why American boats are not used to charter in Europe but would not explain why on the Caribbean almost all charters are European designed boats, many made in the USA.

Charter companies buy the boats that they can put at the better price on charter, boats that the customers what to sail and boats that give them a good durability and value when they sell them 5 or 6 years later. On other words, the boats that offer them a better profit.

I guess the reason you see a lot more Beneteaus than Catalinas doing charter in America is the same reason that gives a much bigger market share to Beneteaus sold in America to private customers compared to Catalina.

But there are some Catalinas doing charter:

Bareboat Sailboat Charters | Maryland Eastern Shore Chesapeake Bay | Rock Hall Maryland

The reason there are not more is that their value on charter for week is about the same as Beneteaus, meaning that people want to sail as much on a Catalina as on a Beneteau and as a Beneteau are less expensive....the profit is bigger.

Regards

Paulo


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## armandolio

Your answer makes a lot sense Paulo


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## goboatingnow

> I don't think that is the point. Some American boats are very popular in Europe in their segment: J boats is an example. They are even made in France.


Thats about the only one, care to mention another that has any sort of market share, Don't mention island packet, tiny tiny numbers sold in Europe.

The reason you see European boats in charter and elsewhere is that European completely dominate sailboat manufacture. Just look at the number of manufacturers, including the giants of the industry.

The US per head of population has a very small sailing community, In Europe its considerably bigger. The big sectors in the US are small sports boats and in this the US dominates,( at least 6 big companies) outside of that it is a European game.

dave

Dave


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## PCP

goboatingnow said:


> Thats about the only one, care to mention another that has any sort of market share, Don't mention island packet, tiny tiny numbers sold in Europe.
> 
> The reason you see European boats in charter and elsewhere is that European completely dominate sailboat manufacture. Just look at the number of manufacturers, including the giants of the industry.
> 
> The US per head of population has a very small sailing community, In Europe its considerably bigger. The big sectors in the US are small sports boats and in this the US dominates,( at least 6 big companies) outside of that it is a European game.
> 
> dave
> 
> Dave


You are right about the bigger interest in sailing in Europe and I agree that it gives to the European boat building a bigger dynamic. But we were talking about bias or not, versus a tendency to like more modern boats, opposed to a more North American conservative taste.

I think it is not by accident that the American boats with bigger acceptance in Europe are the JBoats. They are not only modern by design but also with technological advanced building techniques&#8230;and they are not cheap. You say that it is the only one but on a smaller scale Corsair trimarans also sell well in Europe, considering the proportion of boats sold in Europe and the US. Another modern design.

Yes you are right, Island Packards, Hunters, Catalinas and Tartan have tried to sell in the European market and even if the boats are known here, tested by sail magazines and on the main boat shows, they sell very few boats. The design of those boats is more conservative than the design of European boats and it is significant that the place where some sells happen is UK that has the most conservative market in Europe, in what regards sailing tastes and boats.

You can see that while European boat builders use the best designers all around to design their boats and the same brand uses many times different designers, including some Americans, American boat builders design the boats in the house or have traditional NA that design almost exclusively those boats.

That makes for a much bigger evolution on design versus a more typical product on the American market, meaning for instance that an Island Packet is a type of boat with design characteristics that have been maintained through the years while you cannot never know what is going to be or look like the next Benetau Oceanis or Benetau First, except that it is going to be designed by a top architect and is going to be actual, modern and it will sail very well.

Things seems to be changing on America and new Tartan or new Catalina look less similar to previous models but those factories did not yet gave the leap to command some of the best world NA to do their boat designs. I truly hope that it will happen soon. I think it would make American boats a lot more appealing and interesting, at least in what regards an European perspective and more modern for sure.

I really think that is the main reason, a difference in taste, more conservative versus a more modern one.

Regards

Paulo


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## goboatingnow

I dont agree Paulo, its the size of the domestic market. Take sports boats, US manufacturers dominate the scene and they are not in any way conservative.

Equally European boats sell very well in the US, arguably well outselling US models. There is no real evidence that US customers like conservative boats. In fact the two mainstream US sailing manufacturers , Catalina and Hunter do not make conservative boats and those that do infact , did, as most have failed.

Island packet sell a few boats in the Uk because the language barrier isn't there, the british are not any more or less conservative then elsewhere in Europe. The Scandinavians make a very high quality slightly more conservative boat, as befits everything they make , They have been moderately successful in most European markets.

The US sailing boat market is comparitively small, is is not conservative, well no more then any other. Thats the main factor.

Dave


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## MikeinLA

armandolio said:


> I am considering *buying a boat to put into charter* in the east coast or Caribbean. It seems like the major charter companies only use Beneteau and Jenneau, some Bavaria.
> 
> Out of all the production boats I have seen, the Catalinas appeal to me the most.
> 
> *What does it say about Catalina that charter companies do not use them?* What does it say about the others?


Personally, I think it reflects the fact that we Catalina owners love our boats SO MUCH that we would never consider putting them in charter and missing even a day of sailing them. I might, however, be biased. 

Mike


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## armandolio

MikeinLa, I think you are a bit biased. But I can appreciate the enthusiasm!!


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