# 15 year lurker.. Finally did it!



## paradoxbox (Oct 6, 2006)

Hi all. I've lurked around on this forum for a good 15 years or so, but finally bit the bullet and just bought a boat. 

Tis nothing special, a Grampian 26. I got it for $1,000. The past owner bought a larger boat and didn't want to pay the marina fees for two boats.

It's not in perfect shape, needs paint and a bit of sprucing up. Probably need to replace the bow fitting as the originals are known to crack and fail on these old Grampians. Owner says he replaced parts of the rigging, but the wire looks like it's a bit older, probably not original though.

I think I got a great deal. Came with a cradle, a working Honda 9.9 outboard, and it's got an OMC saildrive in it, probably not working but I'm decent with engines, can probably get it working, or maybe a diesel swap, or perhaps just take it out altogether next year and glass the hole.

Also came with sails, VHF, a new battery and a few other things. Haven't checked if the head works yet, but it looks like it does. Came with one anchor and some chain, really doubt it's enough to keep the boat from dragging - will be one of the first upgrades I do.

It's got a rusty / cracking keel joint but from what I can see the bolts are fine, it looks like normal flexing I've seen on most other older bolted keel boats.

Past owner is a nice guy, willing to help me learn and tell me about any of the flaws he's aware of on the boat.

Will be launching in early May when this whole COVID thing blows over. Will give the keel a good sanding, coat of rust converter then maybe epoxy barrier coat, then bottom paint. Will probably just buff the rest of the hull and wax it to see if it brightens up the original paint. Interior needs a good cleaning but otherwise looks fine. Anything else I should be wary of before launch? 

I'm going to try to bring it to the Bluffers Park Marina (I live near Toronto) or one of the nearby YC's if they've got slips available, and the initial cost isn't too outrageous..!

After seeing how real estate prices have gotten in Canada (I lived in Tokyo for most of my twenties and early thirties) I'm thinking this will be my starter boat for a year or two, then I'll buy another boat 30-45 feet and live aboard, and exit the rat race. Even making 100K+ a year, I cannot afford housing in this country..!


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Congratulations!!

This must be a record  Enjoy it.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Where is the saildrive located? Many G26s came originally with outboard wells. If this was a later addition to the outboard well, might be able to restore. Just a thought.


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## paradoxbox (Oct 6, 2006)

Arcb said:


> Where is the saildrive located? Many G26s came originally with outboard wells. If this was a later addition to the outboard well, might be able to restore. Just a thought.


It's located where the inboard normally would be and the foot comes straight down through the hull as far as I can see. My boat has the outboard well with the Honda on it.

I was surprised when I saw the saildrive foot, didn't expect it to be there. The second owner never used it and never bothered looking into it. The first owner probably put it in sometime in the 70's or 80's.


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

If the Saildrive leg is not corroded I think that you should get it working. Many sailors, like myself, have very reliable and cheap to own OMC's.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Welcome to boat ownership.



paradoxbox said:


> It's got a rusty / cracking keel joint but from what I can see the bolts are fine, it looks like normal flexing I've seen on most other older bolted keel boats.


*NORMAL FLEXING?!?*

I am not familiar with a Grampian, so I looked here:https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/grampian-26. I can tell you that NO flexing of the keel is normal, or acceptable, in any fin keel boat.


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## paradoxbox (Oct 6, 2006)

eherlihy said:


> Welcome to boat ownership.
> 
> *NORMAL FLEXING?!?*
> 
> I am not familiar with a Grampian, so I looked here:https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/grampian-26. I can tell you that NO flexing of the keel is normal, or acceptable, in any fin keel boat.


I've read about this happening to almost every keel boat, and a quick walk through any boat yard with boats out for the winter shows that many if not most older bolted iron keel boats have cracks at the joint where the keel meets the hull. It makes enough sense for me, I'm open to hearing from others though if it is an issue I should address immediately.

From what I understand, so long as the bolts are not corroded/rusted and the rust/gap is superficial it's something that can be epoxy coated and painted, the bolts tightened if necessary, and that it will probably appear again after a season or two.


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## paradoxbox (Oct 6, 2006)

Thanks for the pictures! 

Is replacing keel bolts in an iron keel a simple matter of slinging the boat, dropping the keel and unscrewing the bolts and replacing with new? Would probably grind/sandblast the top surface of the keel as well.

Am also wondering if this is something that would be an absolute necessity to do this season before putting it in the water..would rather do it next season if the bolts don't look too bad.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

For an iron keel, I would try to remove the bolts and this will probably require a sawzall. Then I would tap the holes to clean the threads, or drill and tap new ones that would line up with stringers. This is NOT a DIY project, and I would not sail the boat until it was done.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

BTW the pictures above are the pictures that go with my posts in this thread; https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/43505-wet-bilge-more-than-just-nuisance.html

I suggest that you read through it.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Welcome to boat moaner ship. We looked at Grampian 26 when we were looking for our first boat. I was impressed with how much room there was down below. 

As far as the keel bolts are concerned would drilling from above, tapping the keel then screwing the bolts from above, would that provide the required strength? Pretty sure the OP isn't going to invest $9k in a 1k boat.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Fresh water boat too. It likely wouldn't have the same level of corosion as a salt water boat.

I had a 1974 Grampian 30, she was a pretty solid boat. Kept her at Bluffers Park for a couple years too. Nice spot to sail out of.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

Welcome to the forum. Finally!

I had a 1972 Grampian from around 1985 to 1997. Kept in fresh water, on Lake Michigan. Enjoyed the boat a lot.

Mine had the same crack at the keel attachment. The previous owner must have been aware of it, as it looked like they'd poured epoxy over the bottom of the bilge. To seal it maybe? I had the boat surveyed, but the surveyor didn't have anything negative to say about the keel joint. Can't necessarily say he knew what he was doing, though. 

I opened up the joint a little, filled it with 3M 5200, and painted over it. Called it good for the duration of my ownership. I can't say that was the right thing to do. But, this was a boat that was always in fresh water, and wasn't as old as your's. No way I would sail your boat without addressing the keel legitimately. Sorry. A thousand dollar boat needs a survey. So does a free boat, because you want to identify things that will be expensive to fix. 

You asked about what to check on the boat before launching her. Certainly the rigging needs inspecting, and replacing as necessary. 

I wouldn't put any time or money into the keel or elsewhere until I was satisfied that the deck is free of water penetration. Don't know if you had a survey that may have disclosed this, but it needs to be investigated. 

I'd ditch the sail drive, if you have the transom cutout for the outboard. I found that a long shaft outboard in the cutout did a very good job of keeping itself in the water even in steep Lake Michigan waves. 

Unless you can handle all the aspects of a diesel installation yourself, it would make no financial sense to install one. 

These points are moot though, until you address the keel joint. 

At this point, you're only into it for a grand. Not to rain on your parade, but if it was my boat, I would seriously consider relieving myself of that vessel one way or another.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

If the OP is still around he might want to read up on keel bolt repairs here: Keelbolt Repair ? Keelbolt Repair and Inspection Found it via google.
Anyway one slices this, cheap doesn't enter the picture should the bolts need replacing. And I guess the only way to know for sure is to drop the keel for inspection.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Skipper Jer said:


> If the OP is still around he might want to read up on keel bolt repairs here: Keelbolt Repair ? Keelbolt Repair and Inspection Found it via google.
> Anyway one slices this, cheap doesn't enter the picture should the bolts need replacing. And I guess the only way to know for sure is to drop the keel for inspection.


The link is interesting. I haven't read it all yet, but one limitation on this business that does the repair is that they only seem to work with LEAD keels. I believe that the OP has a cast IRON keel. Drilling and tapping into lead is far easier than drilling and tapping iron.


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

If it's an Iron keel I would think that the keel bolts are either through bolted or tapped and not embedded. I'm curious about how you would even go about embedding bolts into cast iron during the casting process. If they are through bolted or tapped as I suspect they are they can be replaced one at a time without removing the keel.


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## jb cruzan (May 24, 2015)

Congrats and ALL boats are special in their own way!


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## paradoxbox (Oct 6, 2006)

Yep, I am not going to drop 9k into a 1k boat. I will replace the keelbolts if they look totally rotten, but as mentioned this boat is in a lake and it's out of the water for 7 months every year. If it comes to replacing the bolts I'll probably do it myself with a few hours of help from a lift if necessary. Definitely not worth paying a yard to do everything. From my reading on the issue it does look like these types of bolts can be unscrewed from the keel, but if not it can also be done by drilling them out and tapping new holes.

I believe my boat was built in 1974 based on the hull number. 

Unfortunately the yard is closed and nobody can get in til the government mandated COVID policies are overwith, but in the meantime I'm reading up on Grampian info wherever I can find it.

The deck seems to be sound - I walked around every part of the deck after the weather had been warm a few days and found no obvious soft spots. I'd imagine there are probably leaks, but the deck itself looked to be in OK shape. I didn't notice any signs of water intrusion on any of the bulkheads either, but will need to go back and look on a bright sunny day after the marina lets people back in.

Saildrive foot isn't corroded but the prop is gone. Might be in one of the lockers still, I'll need to look around the boat.

Wiring looked OK for the most part, aside from one wire at the mast which was cut and not connected to anything obvious. Previous owner replaced the exterior lights but didn't know what that wire was. Plan to trace that from the main panel before launching and remove it or replace whatever it was connected to.

Definitely not going to get into this boat for a ton of money - I don't mind taking on small/medium projects and am alright with fiberglass repair, having owned fiberglass canoes and cars in the past, but if the problems are major I'll patch them to "good enough" standard and let someone else deal with them in the future. As mentioned I only plan to have this boat a year or two while I look at larger oceangoing boats. Next boat will be around 40' and I'll be very selective about what I buy..This boat was too good to pass up, and is not in as bad shape as it would seem - I've definitely looked at worse in the past.


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## paradoxbox (Oct 6, 2006)

Well, I was able to get into the boat yesterday (And today) after months of COVID lockdown.

The inside was full of water! What a mess. The previous owner put tarps over the boat and one of them was funnelling water right into the cabin, which probably froze in winter and then thawed into a foot high swimming pool. 

Oh well - I got that mostly cleaned up, no damage at all, except for the cabin sole which is waterlogged and will probably need to be replaced (We'll see after drying it out in the sun a few days), and it served as proof that there is no water leaking from the keel "smile" area - no water dripping out onto the keel and I am sure that once the boat's in the water, none will come in. The bolts looked OK from what I can see, though I didn't drop the keel (Am not going to)

Cabin was unfortunately very full of mildew due to sitting for so long. Will spend the next several days cleaning it up - have stripped out the old, horrible burlap off the hull interior, and we might paint the entire cabin white this year to brighten it up. We'll see if we've got time for that. Shop-vac'd a lot of big spiders, yuch. Next few days we'll be cleaning up the top sides, repairing any loose hardware, polishing up anything that can be polished, and maybe, just maybe, repairing the the keel to hull joint with epoxy and paint, but I am leaning towards leaving that til haul out in autumn and doing it then, or even next year. When I sell this boat to upgrade to a bigger one, the new owner is going to be quite lucky, as I'm going to be doing a lot of much-needed maintenance to this poor old boat. 

Overall though, she is in quite good shape - I am the third owner. The second owner appears to have neglected it quite badly, and the first owner was getting on in years when he sold it, so the maintenance issues may have started then. 

The inboard OMC Zephyr Saildrive engine appears to be in decent physical condition, but I will need to really clean it up and do the basic maintenance steps to bring it back to life. I unfortunately haven't found a prop for it in the boat, so I may have to look online for a replacement, but would love to be able to use it instead of the outboard. The outboard turned out to be a very new unit with only a few hours on it. Worth far more than the price I paid for the boat. Quite lucky with that.

We've got all our necessary safety gear, an inflatable tender, radios and friendly faces at the marina now - wish us luck - launch is next week! Really looking forward to getting out there and sailing!


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## danvon (Dec 10, 2012)

Isn't removing old bolts that are tapped into iron keels and replacing them with new ones fairly standard on some boats (I thought I had heard this was done on Beneteaus?) Or am i hallucinating once again?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

paradoxbox said:


> ......it served as proof that there is no water leaking from the keel "smile" area - no water dripping out onto the keel and I am sure that once the boat's in the water, none will come in. The bolts looked OK from what I can see.......


I hope you are right, however, water sitting in a bilge is not under pressure, like water trying to enter from outside, once splashed. Hydraulic pressure, even just a few psi, is insidious. Also, no way to see the condition of keel bolts, from the bilge alone. I pulled mine and ironically they looked better below the bilge, than the nut and stud did above. Can go the other way too.


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## paradoxbox (Oct 6, 2006)

The rust stain pattern on the keel doesn't match up with the location of the bolts, it looks to simply be where the paint has worn down to the metal, and there are no "drips" of rust nor water. The previous owner tells me there was no water coming into the bilge as of autumn of last year either, so I'm satisfied that it will hold up well enough for my purposes. Next year I do think I'll haul the hull off the keel and take a look at the bolts more carefully, repair if necessary, then sandblast and epoxy / paint the entire keel.


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## paradoxbox (Oct 6, 2006)

Boat's in the water - the bilge has stayed bone dry and it's been a week since launch.

There was a busted through hull (Won't close) and the hose attached to it had a pinhole leak. I cut the hose off, plugged the through hull with a brass cap and will replace the through hull next year.

Motor runs perfectly but water doesn't come out of the telltale. Water is moving through the motor though. Am going to continue to try to unclog it but if I can't get it figured out I think I'll just have one of the mechanics at the Marina take a look at it.

The boat has been fantastic, have been sailing almost every day since launch. I got a good deal on some 100W solar panels, will figure out the best way to mount them and then head out for some cruising towards Kingston and Montreal later this summer 

The windows were very cloudy so I cleared them up with a headlight restoration kit, they look great - I actually need curtains now. The previous owner covered the edges with white 3M silicone and did an extremely sloppy job, so I've taken it all off and will redo the seals with clear Sikaflex 295 for this year, and maybe just get new factory seals next year and do a proper job.

Ripped out all the old burlap wall and bulkhead coverings and am going to put up more attractive and modern wall panelling inside, plus some LED light strips. Bulkheads will get the same treatment, or paint. Cabin sole is toast so I'm cutting out a new one next week  Varnish is going on all wood trim and the table next weekend. Electrical system is super simple so I think I may just rip out all the old wiring and redo it from scratch with the solar panels mounted on the dodger frames.

Tiller doesn't feel very nice either so I think I will build or buy a new one next year, but for this year it's enough.

My next step is to figure out how to get the roller furling headsail set up - no clue how to do it, it's not original equipment, but in the meantime I'm using hanked on sails.

With all the above, I'm still into this boat for less than $3,500 and the wall panels and new cabin sole will really change how the interior looks, much more modern. Very happy with the slow but steady improvements - this boat's getting another shot at life!


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