# Nautical Trivia



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Since I am totally locked out of my server and cannot work, I thought I would really waste a bit more time and throw out some nautical trivia. Hopefully I do not screw any of these up, but I am sure the very friendly folks at Sailnet (er, hm) will be happy to point out my errors.

Ok, why is the Head called the head?

Where did the words Starboard and Port originate from and why?

Halyard? Anyone know that one?

Feel free to throw out others. I will give a small hint, they all originated from the old, wooden, ships...


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## ThunderFog (Aug 14, 2006)

Head - because on the old square rig ships you went to the head (front) of the boat to take a dump. 

Port - the side of the ship that tied to the dock

Starboard - Steerboard - the side of the ship with the steering board attached. That is why you always tied the otherside of the ship to the dock.

Halyard - Teach me!

now let me add one. "Splice the main brace" Where did it come from and what does it mean.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The term Halyard comes from the phrase - to 'Haul Yards'.

Used to haul up the yards of sail.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Halyard,

A bit fuzzy, but by memory, it goes something like this:

The old square rigs' sails were measured by yards of sail. Haul-a-yard. Haul-yard, Halyard. Thus, that is where it derived.

PS THe head thing is pretty right. Not Everyone went forward... the Captain had his own head. He was the only one that got to use it.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

More info about the head:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_(watercraft)


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Since I am totally locked out of my server and cannot work, I thought I would really waste a bit more time and throw out some nautical trivia. Hopefully I do not screw any of these up, but I am sure the very friendly folks at Sailnet (er, hm) will be happy to point out my errors.
> 
> Ok, why is the Head called the head?
> 
> ...


CD
I can answer all of those but I'll let someone else have a stab first.

However on the subject of 'head' the answer is not at obvious as might be thought so I'd add two further questions......

What is a beakhead ?

Where did the English term for a toilet , loo, originate ?

I suppose it's an indication of small mind amused by small things but I love this stuff.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Halyard, Haul Yard that's right CD. 

Port was originally larboard but as that was too close to starboard, originally steerboard in the days before rudders, it was changed to port which was the traditional side that ships presented to the wharf for loading and unloading. Why ? I have no idea at all but I'd like to find out.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

TDW & thunderfog,

Nope, don't know those, I am curious. Shoot away!


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## SteveCox (Jul 12, 2006)

Though all of these origins are murky, my understanding is the "steer board" was basically an oar tied on one side of the stern of a double ended Viking ship. You didn't want that side against the quay for fear of damaging the rudder. So the side away from the rudder became port.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> TDW & thunderfog,
> 
> Nope, don't know those, I am curious. Shoot away!


Beakhead - was originally a battering ram that evolved into a platform on which archers and/or swordsmen would stand to either strafe or board another ship. It became a logical place for an onboard (overboard ?) crapper and obviously you would use the leaward beakhead to do your business. Leaward is of course pronounced looward, hence the English term for a toilet, loo.

You can expand that a little, the old beakhead would be a pretty bumpy place as sea and hence the origin of the expression "beats the crap out of me". Ahem !!


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

More trivia (this might be too easy)...

Who was the first sailor to circumnavigate the Earth?


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## SteveCox (Jul 12, 2006)

"You can expand that a little, the old beakhead would be a pretty bumpy place as sea and hence the origin of the expression "beats the crap out of me". Ahem !!"

Only problem with that is "crap" didn't come into use until WWII when American GIs kept using the "Crapper", the most common brand of British toilets. Kind of like "American Standard" over here.


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

kwaltersmi said:


> More trivia (this might be too easy)...
> 
> Who was the first sailor to circumnavigate the Earth?


Solo? 
Slocum, No.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

SteveCox said:


> Though all of these origins are murky, my understanding is the "steer board" was basically an oar tied on one side of the stern of a double ended Viking ship. You didn't want that side against the quay for fear of damaging the rudder. So the side away from the rudder became port.


Stupid of me not to realise that but it encouraged me to look up larboard and starboard. Originally Laddeborde and Steorborde. Borde in old English was the side of a ship, ladde was laden or load , steor meaning to steer.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

Knothead: Indeed, Slocum was the first solo, but who was the first ever (with a crew, obviously)?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

SteveCox said:


> "You can expand that a little, the old beakhead would be a pretty bumpy place as sea and hence the origin of the expression "beats the crap out of me". Ahem !!"
> 
> Only problem with that is "crap" didn't come into use until WWII when American GIs kept using the "Crapper", the most common brand of British toilets. Kind of like "American Standard" over here.


You saying I'm a liar ? (Ahem !! ) You'd be right. That was utter bullcrap just couldn't resist it.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Here, I will explain THE REAL reason why its called port and starbord.

Many centuries ago, when the Portuguese started sailing, they thought the world was a cube. They started sailing South along the coast of Africa, and as they headed South, land (port) allways stayed on the left side of the boat.
Portuguese word for it BOMBORDO (good bord) but the English, and the Dutch (and the French with the arrival of beneteau, LOL) that started sailing MUCH later, modified it to Portbord.

The other side, was the ESTIBORDO (Side of the Stars), and the English started calling it Starbord.

Remember the Portuguese (and some obscure Spaniards) were the first to sail, record and write about it (not the first because teh Fenicians, the vikings all sailed, but never wrot nothing, or wrote little).

Cartography started in Portugal and Italy (when some Portuguese moved there).

As for the head, the portuguese word is Sanita (sanitary), because when doing the DO people belived they were sanitized thru their poo hole.

Why the British started calling head??? Each one poos from where he "bloody hell" choses.

The port satarbord thing we learnt in school, the head I was just joking.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

The first to circunavigate was a Portuguese countrymen of mine called:

Fernão de Magalhaes. You know him as Magellan


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

kwaltersmi said:


> Knothead: Indeed, Slocum was the first solo, but who was the first ever (with a crew, obviously)?


Got me. I've probably learned this at some point in my life but I'll be damned if I can bring it up now.

"Why the British started calling head??? Each one poos from where he "bloody hell" choses."

CD, look what you've started.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

knothead said:


> Solo?
> Slocum, No.


The honour is usually given to Magellan but in fact he died in the Phillipines half way round and was ultimately succeeded by Juan Sebastian Elcano. He was the most senior officer surviving after Magellan died in the Phillipines and assumed command of the fleet.

Slocum was the first recorded solo circumnavigation.

To muddy the waters however, there is a claim that one of the Admirals in Zheng He's (Zhou Man) fleet continued on from Africa, across the Pacific and home, which if true would be the first circumnavigation of which we know. The claim by British author Gavin Menzies is hotly disputed and his book dismissed as pseudo history. True or not it's a great read.


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## Bill Mc (Apr 10, 2006)

*Trivia*

Nautical Trivia

Cup of Joe

Josephus Daniels (18 May 1862 - 15 Jan. 1948) was appointed Secretary of the Navy by President Woodrow Wilson in 1913. Among his reforms of the Navy were inaugurating the practice of making 100 Sailors from the Fleet eligible for entrance into the Naval Academy; the introduction of women into the service; and the abolishment of the Officers' Wine Mess.

From that time on the strongest drink aboard Navy Ships could only be COFFEE. Over the years, a Cup of Coffee became known a "A CUP OF JOE".

For a great cup of Joe, see our lineup of stainless steel coffee presses.

S.H.I.T.

In the 16th and 17th centuries, everything had to be transported by ship. It was also before commercial fertilizer's invention, so large shipments of manure were common. It was shipped dry, because in dry form it weighed a lot less than when wet, but once water (at sea) hit it, it not only became heavier, but the process of fermentation began again, of which a by-product is methane gas.

As the stuff was! stored below decks in bundles you can see what could (and did) happen. Methane began to build up below decks and the first time someone came below at night with a lantern, BOOOOM!

Several ships were destroyed in this manner before it was determined just what was happening. After that, the bundles of manure were always stamped with the term "Ship High In Transit" on them which meant for the sailors to stow it high enough off the lower decks so that any water that came into the hold would not touch this volatile cargo and start the production of methane.

Thus evolved the term "S.H.I.T," which has come down through the centuries and is in use to this very day. I'll bet you always thought that it was a golf term.

Brass Monkey

In the heyday of sailing ships, all war ships and many freighters carried iron cannons. Those cannons fired round iron cannon balls. It was necessary to keep a good supply near the cannon, but prevent them from rolling about the deck. The best storage method devised was a square based pyramid with one ball on top, resting on four resting on nine which rested on sixteen. Thus, a supply of thirty cannon balls could be stacked in a small area right next to the cannon. There was only one problem - how to prevent the bottom layer from sliding/rolling from under the others? The solution was a metal plate called a, "Monkey," with sixteen round indentations. If this plate was made of iron, the iron balls would quickly rust to it. The solution to the rusting problem was to make, "Brass Monkeys."

Few landlubbers realize that brass contracts much more and much faster than iron when chilled. Consequently, when the temperature dropped too far, the brass indentations would shrink so much that the cannon balls would roll right off the monkey. Thus, it was quite literally, "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey!"

Taken from the Trivia Page at http://sailorssolutions.com/


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> The first to circunavigate was a Portuguese countrymen of mine called:
> 
> Fernão de Magalhaes. You know him as Magellan


I did post something on this but it seems to have disappeared without trace so here we go again.

Magellan's fleet was the first verified circumnavigation but it arrived home under the command of Juan Sebastian Elcano, Magellan having died in the Phillipines.

Slocum was the first solo circumnavigation that we know of.

One of the squadrons of Zheng He's fleet under Zhou Man is claimed to have cirumnavigated in the early fifteenth century. This is examined in Gavin Menzies book '1421, The Year China Discovered the World' but the claim is hotly disputed. True or not it is a great read.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Bill Mc

Is that serious?? the **** thing??

I heard the GOLF means Gents Only Ladies Forbbiden.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

By "Joe", are you guys full of "CRAP"? Sounds like a bunch of "****" to me. I have to go and prep because a winter storm is about to cross Texas that would "Freeze the Balls off a Brass Monkey".

- CD

PS So, who was the first WOMAN to circum? Who was the youngest to date?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

ThunderFog said:


> Head - "Splice the main brace" Where did it come from and what does it mean.


Main Brace was the line that was the main support for a ships mast(s). Remembering that in those days all standing rigging was rope. Splicing of the main brace was supposedly the most difficult rigging job on board and as a reward those sailors who did it were given an extra ration of rum. The term was widened until it became a general invitation to a piss up.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> By "Joe", are you guys full of "CRAP"? Sounds like a bunch of "****" to me. I have to go and prep because a winter storm is about to cross Texas that would "Freeze the Balls off a Brass Monkey".
> 
> - CD
> 
> PS So, who was the first WOMAN to circum? Who was the youngest to date?


Naomi James was the first woman to solo circumnavigate. 
Robin Lee Graham was youngest at the time he circumnavigated although I don't know if anyone younger has done it yet.
Jesse Martin was youngest to circumnavigate non stop.

BTW - Magellan did in fact circle the globe but not in a single voyage so he was almost certainly the first European to go all the way round.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

TDW & Giulietta,

Just so you know, Noah was the first to circumnavigate. He was an American. Al Gore told me so.

ENjoyed the trivia.

- CD


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Next time ya talk to Al Jr, ask him to ask Noah, what idiot loaded Hilary on the boat...........................and why


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Isn't a "yard" the cross beam that supports a square-rigged sail?

The story I heard is that the flush toilet was invented by a guy named Johnny Crapper. Hence, the creation of a couple of modern terms.

Goodnight all,
Bob


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Good find. I looked up Yard and found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yard_(sailing)


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

S.H.I.T - seems like that's a load of old Johnny (crapper that is).

Oxford English Dictionary
****:-ORIGIN Old English scitte 'diarrhoea', of Germanic origin; related to Dutch schijten, German scheissen (verb). The term was originally neutral and used without vulgar connotation. (Acronyms did not become a widely used part of the English language until the 20th century.)

As for Thomas Crapper he was the real deal and there is considerable support for the claim that Crapper did indeed come from his brand of toilets although it's highly doubtful that he invented the thing. I think, (if we are talking flushing variety) that it was the Moors who invented modern plumbing and flushing toilets. They certainly had them in the Alhambra which is a Moorish castle in the south of Spain built in the 14th century. Sadly for Thomas Crappers supporters this is just one more urban myth. From Middle English we get 'Crappe' a "grain that was trodden underfoot in a barn, chaff." It is quite possible that the expression crapper came from Thomas's toilet bowls as suggested earlier. Thomas did take out a patent on a contraption not far removed from a modern cistern with the lever and ball arrangement.

Oh , and the GOLF thing is likewise so much. Apparently the word has been around for centuries with various spellings. The OED points out it derives from the Scottish 'gouf' which comes from Middle Dutch 'colf ' meaning a stick or bat. Just to complete this and cement my reputation as a party pooping smart arse (from the German arsch, by the way) the Scots also came up with futbol. 

Here's one - What's a 'Captains Daughter' ?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I have some doubts about the manure bit... I believe that Methane (CH4) is considerably lighter than air and as such, normally rises. That is the primary advantage of CNG, which is primarily methane.


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## Bill Mc (Apr 10, 2006)

*Spin a good Yarn did he Arggg.*

*The whole nine yards:* Yards are the spars attached at right angles across a mast to support square sails. (Yardarms are either side of a yard.) One a fully rigged three-masted ship there were three major square sails on each mast. So if the nine major sails were all employed at the same time, the whole nine yards were working.

*Start over with a clean slate:* A slate tablet was kept near the helm on which the watch keeper would record the speeds, distances, headings, and tracks during his watch. If there were no problems during the watch the slate would be wiped clean so that the new watch could start over with a clean slate.

*Son of a Gun:* When in port, and with crew restricted to the ship for any extended period of time, wives and ladies of easy virtue often were allowed to live aboard along with the crew. Occasionally children were born aboard and a convenient place for this was between the guns on the gun deck. If the child's father was unknown, the child was entered in the ship's log as Son of a Gun.

*As the crow flies: *When lost or unsure of their position in coastal waters, ships would release a caged crow. The crow would fly straight toward the nearest land, thus giving the vessel some sort of a navigational fix. The tallest lookout platform on a ship came to be known as the crow's nest.

And the Capt'n Daughter was a Cat O Nine.

Remember, amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic.

Bill


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

Umm... Aristotle is attributed to using "Tabula Rasa" (Clean Slate). Although the term probably did originate from wiping a slate clean, it is more likely to have been used onshore first before being used offshore.

the Nine yards etymology is quite disputed as well and the sailing interpretation doesn't rank among the top 5 generally accepted sources. I think the top 4 are from Cement, Cloth, Football and MG-belts.

But it makes good storytelling... I've heard a lot of different explanations of the origins of "Okay" but can't recall a nautical one - any takers for a good tale?


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

*Imperial / US gallon*

Why 1 gallon in the US is smaller than 1 gallon (Imperial) in England??

You will be amzed at the answer...


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I suppose this is nautical trivia, since it came about from the need to carry & store libations . . . essential for sailors at the time.

The US gallon derived from the use of English _gallon_ wine bottles by the early colonists in this country - the volume of which is still used today. At that time, the English used a different measure adapted from their ale gallon bottles, eventually changing it to the Imperial gallon.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

OK, here is the version I was told by a teacher, (that had been a Royal Navy Engineer), I had when I was at the University.

He told me that once the first setlers came to America on ships like the Mayflower and such, each family would be given a leather bucket (1 gallon), whose bottom was made with a wood disk.

As they sailed, and used their bucket to carry water, and other nasty liquids, the buckets were washed with salt water. From the constant weting and drying the leather shrunk, so when they arrived in America, the 1 gallon bucket carried much less liquid.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/2625/song1.html
What shall we do with a drunken sailor?
31. Make 'im kiss the gunner's daughter
** the "gunner's daughter" is being tied to the barrel
of the cannon while they fire it four or five times.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

Anyone know the first to solo (single-handed) circumnavigate WITHOUT stopping? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Slocum made a stop (New Zeland, was it?).

Here's a hint: It occurred in 1968-69.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Slocum made several stops. He also went East to West.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

kwaltersmi said:


> Anyone know the first to solo (single-handed) circumnavigate WITHOUT stopping? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Slocum made a stop (New Zeland, was it?).
> 
> Here's a hint: It occurred in 1968-69.


Robin Knox-Johnston, the first solo round-the-world race, on "Suhali" a Westsail 32-ish type of double ender.

Motessier also competed, but decided, when in the lead, to abandon the race and carried on around the horn to the South Pacific.

This was also the race where Donald Crowhurst pulled off his crazy fraudulent stunt.(which ended in suicide)


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Don't know the story... what did Donald do?


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## Kernix (Oct 5, 2006)

Have any of you ever seen this about why a ship is called "she"? I apologize to any women who don't like the below text:

"A ship is called "she" because there is always a great deal 
of bustle about her; there is usually a gang of men about', 
she has a waist and stays; it takes a lot of paint to keep 
her looking good; it is not the initial expense that breaks 
you, it is the upkeep; she can be all decked out; it 
takes an experienced man to handle her correctly, and 
without a man at the helm, she is absolutely uncontrollable. 
She shows her topsides, hides her bottom and, when coming 
into port, always heads for the buoys."

I understand all of it except "...a waist ans stays." How does the word "stays" refer to a woman?


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Since this verse is probably fairly old, my guess is "stays" were once attached to a women's undergarments to hold up her stockings . . . but, I have no direct experience to confirm that ;^)


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## Gary M (May 9, 2006)

There was a competition put on by someone like the Times of London with a reward for who ever sailed first around solo. Donald Crowhurst entered along with Knox Johnson and Motessier. But all he did was sail around in mid Atlantic and then tried to return to England ahead of Knox Johnson. 

I forget now how he got caught but he was rather badly shamed leading to his demise. 

Motessier was in the lead but as has been said earlier, just went straight on instead of turning to Larboard and claiming the prize.

Gary


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## Gary M (May 9, 2006)

*And Another Story*

Back in merry old medieval England when the peasants were basically slaves, they were totally controlled by their liege lord who of course represented the King. All aspects of their life were in his hands. Even the decision to have a family. You had to go before the Lord and ask permission. If it was granted the they put a sign on your front door.

Fornicating 
Under 
Consent of the 
King


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Cruisingdad said:


> Don't know the story... what did Donald do?


Crowhurst entered the race on a trimaran, and was hyped as a favourite, esp considering the heavy cruisers the others were using. He set sail and his radio reports had him well in front, including details of what he did, the weather he was experiencing etc.

At some point, when he "was well along in the race" his reports stopped. After a lot of concern, his boat was found adrift in the Atlantic. There were two logs on board, one that he radioed the details of, and the other of what he actually did, which was to sail circles around the Atlantic. He was not on board. The story goes that he was unable to pull off the deceit and chose to step over the side.

"The strange voyage of Donald Crowhurst" is the title of the book. It's a good read.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

So, being the eternal optimist, we don't know that he really committed suicicde? Do we know for sure he cheated? It can get very confusing out there...

Am I too much of an optimist? Maybe he was not cheating and did not committ suicide after all?


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## SteveCox (Jul 12, 2006)

I believe that stays as applied to a woman in older times referred to pieces that kept her dress away from her body. When we discuss "hoop skirts" we are talking about the same thing.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Is it possible that "stays" refers to the whalebone reinforcements in a corset that control shape, that is, to hold in place?


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Bill Mc said:


> *The whole nine yards:*


Also, and this came from my Dad who was a Bomber pilot in WWII; Their ammo belts aboard the B24's were 27 ft long ( 9 yds ) when they shot down a enemy plane or strafe an enemy ship they would say give them " The whole Nine Yards "


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Cruisingdad said:


> So, being the eternal optimist, we don't know that he really committed suicicde? Do we know for sure he cheated? It can get very confusing out there...
> 
> Am I too much of an optimist? Maybe he was not cheating and did not committ suicide after all?


I think it's safe to say you're being too kind..... read the book, it's interesting - he left lots of data behind including evidence of a developing breakdown.


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## Kernix (Oct 5, 2006)

Noticing poopdeckdaddy - what about "poop deck" and "swabbing the poop deck"?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Kernix said:


> Noticing poopdeckdaddy - what about "poop deck" and "swabbing the poop deck"?


From the Latin Puppis meaning stern. One meaning for a swab is a large mop used on board a ship. Comes from the Dutch zwabber (mop).


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

What is a ceiling on a ship?


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

That would be the inside sides of the hull.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Not correct.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> What is a ceiling on a ship?


ship's ceiling is an overhead


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

The underside of the deck and cabin top is the "overhead"; the insides of the hull (eg - linings or planking) are ceilings.


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

Thank You, Faster. I did not know that until I read it in Don Casey's book... 100 Fast & Easy Boat Improvements. Just did not want to argue.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Kernix said:


> Noticing poopdeckdaddy - what about "poop deck" and "swabbing the poop deck"?


We've always referred to our raised aft deck as the poop deck. Not sure of the name origin, but as far as I can remember (and as with most english words) it is derived from a Latin word - spelled similarly but modified through use. The poop, is the name given to a full height cabin, located at the stern of ships - so, the poop deck is this cabin's overhead. To be pooped, is to have a wave crash over the poop deck.


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## Dawkahab (Aug 15, 2006)

To splice the main brace means to have a drink


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Actually, a ceiling is the wood sheathing over the deck in the hatch square of the lower hold. It is there to lessen damage to cargo being landed in the square of the hatch. The hull and overhead are not sheathed in a ship as that would take up cargo space to no purpose. There is planking, in the form of wooden strips, that run between frames and that is known as permanent dunnage. Dunnage, of all types, is what is used to place and keep cargo in it's proper position, by distributing load. It can range from plywood to 4x4 timbers. It also can be used to provide air circulation around cargo that needs it. Perhaps the term has been modified for use on sailboats. The definition given for overhead is correct, begging the question, what is a floor?


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## Bill Mc (Apr 10, 2006)

*hmmmmmmm*

What is A tot of Rum???

I get out of work in 7 hrs off this here 12 hr shift. Then off to the boat to Quaff some Rum from a sippy cup. 

Fair Winds,

Bill


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

A tot is a drinking cup of smaller capacity than a half pint. Used by the RN for a ration of spirits. Gives one an idea of the drinking habits of our forebearers. In most states, a tot of rum would put one over the limit for driving. Those limeys may have spent their life cold and wet, but they weren't frozen.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

*Mea Culpa*

Just consulted de Kerchove and ceiling does define the inner planking inside the vessel as well as the definition I gave. Fortunately, I didn't have far to fall from my 'lofty' perch.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

sailaway21 said:


> . The definition given for overhead is correct, begging the question, what is a floor?


A floor(s) is/are, I believe, the crossbeam(s) that support the cabin *sole,* which is the nautical equivalent of your living room floor.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Yes, the "ribs" of your boat, when they meet the turn of the bilge and become horizontal are called floors. They are vertical members and may/may not have a deck or sole over them. Does anyone know what a mariner's lien is?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

45 degrees in a stiff breeze?<g>


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## CaptainNorman (Dec 2, 2006)

*Painter*

Why is the line on the front of a dinghy or small boat called a Painter?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Because it's used to pull the dinghy around the larger vessel to paint the sides?


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

On a British Navy ship, when one is on a table, in front of the Captain, on what side should the Coffee cup handle be?


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Let me guess. To the left because Nelson lost his right arm?


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Painter. I know of only two. Boat painter and sea painter. The former is usually attached to a ring in the bow of a small boat and the latter is used to shear a boat away from a ship while underway. Don't know the origin of painter itself but would bet on beagle's answer.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Nope


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## CaptainNorman (Dec 2, 2006)

Why is the line tied to the front of a small boat called a painter?


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## CaptainNorman (Dec 2, 2006)

I thought to myself that the painter was used to Move the boat around for painting the sides, but I was looking for the official definition.
Thanks


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## ColinV (Oct 1, 2006)

The dictionary says that the word 'painter' comes from Middle English, or Old French 'pentoir' meaning 'strong rope', and from latin 'pendere' which means 'to hang'. dictionary entry


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Giulietta- I give-I thought it HAD to be something to do with Nelson.

To answer my post about "maritime lien": A maritime lien is a lien against a vessel and is unique in that it is actually against the vessel. If you don't pay your crew and they put a lien on the vessel the lien will follow the vessel regardless of ownership. You may see a $100 million ship tied up and "plastered" in Felixstowe because the company did not pay for the painting they had done in Hong Kong. Companies in these types of difficulties will keep the individual ship at sea instead of docking in a port where there is a chance they could get served papers. The term plastered comes from the method the US marshalls used to use to secure said vessel in a US port. They pasted over all doors, hatches, etc...with a paper and plaster-like compound.
How does that effect a boat-buyer?  If you buy a boat out of the charter trade and the charter company has not paid the crew of that specific boat the crew can seize your boat and sell it for wages due. Each vessel is regarded as a specific entity; as if the vessel herself were entering into various contracts. BTW, seaman's wages take precedence in the pecking order of liens against a vessel.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Overhead*

From my time in th RAN the term for the ceiling was a deckhead as it was the deck above your head and an overhead was all the associated stuff hanging from the deckhead. Not sure whether this is gospel, but that was what was explained to me by sailors with far more time than me.

Mick


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

So... any answer??

On a British Navy ship, when one is on a table, in front of the Captain, on what side should the Coffee cup handle be?


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## ThunderFog (Aug 14, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> So... any answer??
> 
> On a British Navy ship, when one is on a table, in front of the Captain, on what side should the Coffee cup handle be?


TOP side???  because the last time I put a cup of coffee on the bottom side the captain got really upset.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Sorry, Nope.....


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## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

Someone wrote:
"Leaward is of course pronounced looward, hence the English term for a toilet, loo."
Not sure I buy that one, kind of reminds me of the corrupted pronunciation of sail when accompanied with the adjectives main & head. For some strange reason a sail becomes a "headsol" or "mainsull" when really it is a sail pronounced sale not sul or sol. 
I pronounce leaward leeward as in a lee shore or the lee side of the island, no need to change the pronunciation. I suppose there are those folks that call "hem's a-loo" when tacking though, I usually call "helm's a-lee when I tack. For some reason the English language gets slurred & corrupted over time. Just my opinion though, and I am sure to get chastized for expressing it.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Giulietta said:


> So... any answer??
> 
> On a British Navy ship, when one is on a table, in front of the Captain, on what side should the Coffee cup handle be?


There is no correct answer since there would be no handle. The coffee at the Captain's table is served in small glasses.


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## tigerregis (Nov 24, 2006)

LOOtenant Kermie, where did you get the zoo in chastise? You must be the Nutty Professor played by Jerry Leeis. While you're at it, run out the stuns'l.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

One of those things Kermie, much like Boatswain, Bulwark, and others. Never heard a bosun referred to as a boatswain and not sure he'd answer if he was! I will say though that seaman are particular about their language, much as chemists, doctors, and lawyers. And we would not think of changing their use of latin for our convenience alone. Why should we refer to something on a ship contrary to generations of usage? At a minimum it sorts out the salts from the lubbers. Here's one that will float your boat! How is the word "tackle" pronounced in the phrase "ground tackle"? I'll give you an obvious hint; it's not the same as in the stuff you fish with.


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## svindigo (Sep 11, 2002)

Tay-Cull

Real intuitive, that one.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

What's a jew's harp?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

CaptKermie said:


> Someone wrote:
> "Leaward is of course pronounced looward, hence the English term for a toilet, loo."
> Not sure I buy that one, kind of reminds me of the corrupted pronunciation of sail when accompanied with the adjectives main & head. For some strange reason a sail becomes a "headsol" or "mainsull" when really it is a sail pronounced sale not sul or sol.
> I pronounce leaward leeward as in a lee shore or the lee side of the island, no need to change the pronunciation. I suppose there are those folks that call "hem's a-loo" when tacking though, I usually call "helm's a-lee when I tack. For some reason the English language gets slurred & corrupted over time. Just my opinion though, and I am sure to get chastized for expressing it.


Someone ??? Herrumph !! 

I got the info from a book on nautical terminology. Whether you like it or not in English (rather than American English) speaking countries LEEWARD is most definitely pronounced LOOWARD so I am prepared to believe the claim. Lets face it English is a peculiar language when it comes to pronunciation.

Cheers

tdw


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## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

*tdw*_
"Someone ??? Herrumph !! "_
I didn't want to put too fine a point on it.

*tigerregis*
My my, don't we have thin skin, a bit over sensitive I'd say. BTW it's Capt.kermie not Lootenant and I apologize for not qualifying as one of your spelling BEEZ. Stuns'l????? that is a new one to me what is it (some sort of sail)?
*sailaway21*
"ground tackle" pronunciation would really raise my eyebrows if I heard it, that's a new one on me.
As for some of the other terminology it would not surprise me if it was pronounced Boatswain when the term was first coined, but given the intelligence and education of 16th & 17th century sailors combined with that goofy British accent (I am of British decent) and perhaps a few swigs of rum it is no wonder it was slurred to Bosun over time. Same goes with other nautical pronunciations, they got corrupted and slurred over the centuries. The latest one I hear is "probably" shortened to "prolly", give it a century and no one will remember "probably" Most slang pronunciations stem from verbal laziness and I am sure "leeooward" is from too much rum. Just my .02 cents worth, no need for anyone to get their balls in a knot.


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

This board is getting increasingly boring as a fight breaks out over the most inane topics. I would say it is cabin fever but it is only the first week of December.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Stuns'l is slang for Studding Sails; I thought everybody knew that.
Just like to'gallant. Top Gallant..

And I think your reffering to a Juice Harp. Its that thing you place on to your teeth and you pluck it to make those weird twanging sounds.


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## tigerregis (Nov 24, 2006)

CaptKermie, possibly you are right about 16th century sailors. What do you think of your contemporaries who use "words" like "Bud, MDG, Marlies, Mickey D's etc?"


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailortjk1 said:


> Stuns'l is slang for Studding Sails; I thought everybody knew that.
> Just like to'gallant. Top Gallant..
> 
> And I think you're referring to a Juice Harp. Its that thing you place on to your teeth and you pluck it to make those weird twanging sounds.


Juice Harp ? Sounds like rampant political correctness to me. The thing has been called a Jews Harp in England for 500 years. Why , I don't know, but that is what it is called. I fail to see anything offensive in the term myself. Originally called a gewgaw apparently, has no connection to Judaism or the Holy Land and it's uncertain why it became known as a Jews Harp. Jaw Harp and Juice Harp are both 20th century inventions according to http://www.jewsharpguild.org/history.html

ps - You may be right Pigslo. Only a couple of weeks to go until bloody Christmas is done and dusted. Two days after that I'm outta here for some peace and quiet. O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! He chortled in his joy. (with thanks to Lewis Carroll)

Regards

Scrooge McWombat


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

CaptKermie said:


> *tdw*
> _"Someone ??? Herrumph !! "_
> I didn't want to put too fine a point on it..


As long as that point is a beam reach I am content. 

One of the interesting things about pronunciation is how it's effected by geographical location. Now I know this board is largely overun by septics but the US is a good case in point. Everyone outside the US has an idea as to what constitutes an American accent yet such a thing does not exist. The same goes for English in the UK. Tiny little place it is but there is still no such thing as an English accent. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that many of these shortened terms (e.g boatswain to bosun) came about as people from different regions all drawn together in the same crew tried to make themselves understood or alternatively that a word pronounced in one dialect became the dominant form. Weird and wonderful stuff and you'd have to admit that it is hard to figure out how lieutenant managed to become leftenant.

ps - poms, aussies and kiwis are banned from participation but anyone else care to have a stab at explaining "septics" ? It's not nautical I know but then neither was the Jews Harp.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

CapnHand said:


> There is no correct answer since there would be no handle. The coffee at the Captain's table is served in small glasses.


Well, That is not the answer either...

try again


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

Septic comes from the word SEPTIC meaning alive like the bacteria in the tank that eats the poop.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

pigslo said:


> Septic comes from the word SEPTIC meaning alive like the bacteria in the tank that eats the poop.


Yes indeed young porker but why did I use the word in the context I did ?


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

tdw "it is hard to figure out how lieutenant managed to become leftenant". It's actually the other way around in English - "leftenent" became "lootenant" . The US changed that but why did they not change to "colonel" from "curnel". Although if you go back to it's roots, which were French, it should be pronounced "loo"


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

And what context was that?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

pigslo said:


> And what context was that?


"One of the interesting things about pronunciation is how it's effected by geographical location. Now I know this board is largely overun by septics but the US is a good case in point."

That one.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Lest we go by the boards here on issues of semetism, a jew's harp is part of the ground tay-cul, and what part might that be?


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Pronunciation of ship-board terms probably derives from their various countries of origin and so it would not be uncommon for an English sailor speaking in english to insert a Dutch or French word in the middle of the sentence and think nothing of it. The important point is that words have meaning and to corrupt meaning by usage is a crime. If you refer to the deck as a floor you may get by in terms of intent, but what do you then call the vertical support member running from the keel to the turn of the bilge?
If I were on a British man of war I would refer to a junior officer as a "lef-tenant" and continue to refer to the same rank officer on a US vessel as "loo-tenant". Different ships different long-splices.
Given the latest reports from the public schools I doubt that we can blame much on the lack of education of our sea-going forefathers.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> Lest we go by the boards here on issues of semetism, a jew's harp is part of the ground tay-cul, and what part might that be?


*Jews harp:* The ring bolted to the upper end of the shank of an anchor and to which the bending shackle secures. (Courtesy of http://www.usmm.net/)

Well I'll be buggered. I never knew that. To busy rabbiting on about poitical correctness. Ah well, such is life.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

ebs001 said:


> tdw "it is hard to figure out how lieutenant managed to become leftenant". It's actually the other way around in English - "leftenent" became "lootenant" . The US changed that but why did they not change to "colonel" from "curnel". Although if you go back to it's roots, which were French, it should be pronounced "loo"


Its an interesting one this word lieutenant. Most people do seem to think that loo is the English and lef is the American whereas as you correctly point out it's the reverse. Did I get it the wrong way round ? Dumbarse Wombat !


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> Well, That is not the answer either...
> 
> try again


Jaysus Guilietta I am flumoxed. I obviously have something of a simpletons attitude as this trivia stuff I find irresistable but I'm damned if I can find the answer to this coffee conundrum.

I'm wondering ...

Is it a trick question ?

or

Does it have anything to do with the direction the port bottle moves or the need to have a free hand for the toast glass ? In which case the answer would seem to be to the left so that your right hand is free to pick up the toast glass.

Pure guesswork on my part and I guess I'll keep trying to find out the real answer.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Actually tdw it is the anchor shackle in that same spot. BTW, an anchor shackle is straight sided and stronger than a bow shackle. It stows in the hawse pipe much better also. While on the subject of shackles, it is a mystery to me why none of the yachting catalogs offer a true safety shackle. A safety shackle has a threaded pin that threads not into the shackle itself, but a nut on the outside of the shackle. The pin has a hole through which a cotter pin is run through. The shackle develops full strength as the pin is full diameter going through the shackle body. A Jew's Harp is such a shackle and it amazes me that all the shackles, "safety" or otherwise require mousing. Is there a reason for this?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> Pronunciation of ship-board terms probably derives from their various countries of origin and so it would not be uncommon for an English sailor speaking in english to insert a Dutch or French word in the middle of the sentence and think nothing of it. The important point is that words have meaning and to corrupt meaning by usage is a crime. If you refer to the deck as a floor you may get by in terms of intent, but what do you then call the vertical support member running from the keel to the turn of the bilge?
> If I were on a British man of war I would refer to a junior officer as a "lef-tenant" and continue to refer to the same rank officer on a US vessel as "loo-tenant". Different ships different long-splices.
> Given the latest reports from the public schools I doubt that we can blame much on the lack of education of our sea-going forefathers.


The etymology of lieutenant is quite interesting as the word literally means a substitute or stand in. Lieu meaning place and tenant coming from the French tenir meaning holder. So the idear is that a lieutenant is someone who stands in for another of higher authority. http://www.etymonline.com is my source for this meaning.

In regard to usage the harsh reality is that it is usage that very often does change the meaning and pronunciation of a word and it has always been thus. Language , particularly the English language evolves and the the active agent in that evolution is usage, nowt else.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Giulietta is holding this one pretty close to his vest. I'm still holding out that it has something to do with Nelson. Doesn't everything in the RN have something to do with Nelson?<G>
To the right would make sense as we know what the left hand is used for in most cultures, but I suspect our Portugese friend has something more interesting in mind.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> Actually tdw it is the anchor shackle in that same spot. BTW, an anchor shackle is straight sided and stronger than a bow shackle. It stows in the hawse pipe much better also. While on the subject of shackles, it is a mystery to me why none of the yachting catalogs offer a true safety shackle. A safety shackle has a threaded pin that threads not into the shackle itself, but a nut on the outside of the shackle. The pin has a hole through which a cotter pin is run through. The shackle develops full strength as the pin is full diameter going through the shackle body. A Jew's Harp is such a shackle and it amazes me that all the shackles, "safety" or otherwise require mousing. Is there a reason for this?


I looked up a couple of references and they are contradictory between
the ring and the shackle and in one case both, but if you think of the design
of the instrument then you can see the shackle similarity. Shackles are an 
interesting bit of hardware. I've been buying some of late that are the captive 
pin variety and man they are miniature works of art. By that I mean they are 
quite beautiful and cost half the national debt.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Here's another one for you. What is spring lay line? You have to be old to have seen this stuff up close.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> Here's another one for you. What is spring lay line? You have to be old to have seen this stuff up close.


A lay line you buy at the start of the season ?

No ?

Didn't think so. 

Mate, you may well have me with this one. Along with Guilietta's (sp?)coffee cup I'm well and truely stumped but I'm not one to give up easily so I'll keep looking.

Regards

Andrew


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## IainMurray (Dec 7, 2006)

Well...I'm not locked out of anything in work and have loads to do but this is more interesting....

Most of the posts are quite right, Port side was the side presented to the port or harbour for docking. The reason for this was that the other side starboard or steerboard was the side which has an oar like steering system / device and therefore would get damaged if they docked on that side.

The word Halyard originated in tall ships / square riggers. The yard is the long timber spar from which the square sails hang. To haul the yard was to lift the yard up with the sail set in order to tension the sail against the yard below, to which the sheets are connected.

The term to "Splice the Main Brace" I think is a bit of a nonsense! to splice is to open the lay of a rope and re-weave it to create a ring / hoop / bight at one end or lay it back onto itself in a "long splice" to stop it unravelling. You can also join two identical rope together neatly. A brace is a rope and cable combination connected to the end of the yards / yard arms on a square rigger. They are used to turn or brace the yards to one side or other so that the ship can sail a bit closer to the wind. Now....the question is what is a main brace? The braces are normally named after the yard that it controls..ie.. Course Brace, Topsail Brace, T'gallant Brace, Skysail Brace, Royal Brace, etc. A Mainsail is a fore and aft sail mounted on the mast, not on a yard and therefore would not require a brace, just a sheet. So its all a bit strange, you hear this term a lot in movies, but I think it's silly make up jargon. If they said "Splice the Topsail Brace" it would make more sense, and it would probably mean join the cable at the yard end to the rope at the deck end, but it wouldn't be an urgent thing most likely, it would be part of a running maintenance schedule!.

A new one....."To freeze the balls off a brass money".
A brass monkey was a brass triangle upon which cannonballs were stacked. When it got cold enough the brass would contract making the triangle slightly smaller and the cannonballs would fall off the triangle...and hence it became so cold that it froze the balls off a brass monkey!



Iain


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

IainMurray said:


> to splice is to open the lay of a rope and re-weave it to create a ring / hoop / bight at one end or lay it back onto itself in a "long splice" to stop it unravelling. You can also join two identical rope together neatly.
> Iain


When you lay the rope back on itself to stop unravelling, it's a back splice. The long splice is the joining of two identical ropes together in such a fashion that the diameter is only marginally increased, so it will still run through a block.

Charlie


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

How do you pronounce "buoy"?


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

ebs001 said:


> How do you pronounce "buoy"?


http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/pron/B0554700.wav


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

TB, that's nice but how do you pronounce "buoy" - booee or boy? I pronounce it the English way - boy.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I have ALWAYS pronunced buoy as _boo'ee,_ with the accent on the first syllable . . . just as in that .wav clip.


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## cockeyedbob (Dec 6, 2006)

... and tp was a length of line, frayed at the end, dragging in the water ... pull 'er up, take a swipe, drop 'er back in for the next man ...


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

TP, I think most Americans pronounce it the way you do, as do some Canadians. How do you pronounce "buoyed" as in :he was buoyed up by the team spirit" ?


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## kennya (Jul 10, 2006)

Define the nautical use for escutcheon


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I know from being a practicing architect, that an escutheon is any plate used as a backer for hardware - such as the rose of a door knob or on a latch assembly. I would guess a ship's use of _escutheon_ would be similar. Perhaps the backer plate used to enscribe the ship's name?


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## kennya (Jul 10, 2006)

Displaying the name of the vessel, it usually was affixed to the stern of a sailing ship


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

So, so far no one has told me on what side should the handle of a coffe cup be ina Royal Navy's ship.

Ok, now to make it easier....on what side should the coffe's cup handle be on a US navy ship?????


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Any coffee cup has a handle side and a non-handle side. So it is proper on a US Naval ship to have the handle on the handle side, while in the Royal Navy (since they are looking at it from the opposite side of the ocean) the handle side will be opposite the non-handle side, therefore the reverse should be true.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Huhhhhh, no!

please, simple... on what side should the coffe's cup handle be on a Rn ship, and on a US Navy ship..


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

Faster said:


> Crowhurst entered the race on a trimaran, and was hyped as a favourite, esp considering the heavy cruisers the others were using. He set sail and his radio reports had him well in front, including details of what he did, the weather he was experiencing etc.
> 
> At some point, when he "was well along in the race" his reports stopped. After a lot of concern, his boat was found adrift in the Atlantic. There were two logs on board, one that he radioed the details of, and the other of what he actually did, which was to sail circles around the Atlantic. He was not on board. The story goes that he was unable to pull off the deceit and chose to step over the side.
> 
> "The strange voyage of Donald Crowhurst" is the title of the book. It's a good read.


I also read a somewhat recent book on the race, generally, that had a lot on Crowhurst, although the name presently escapes me. Something like a Race or a Voyage for Madmen or something like that. I liked it despite my bad memory.


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

Faster said:


> I think it's safe to say you're being too kind..... read the book, it's interesting - he left lots of data behind including evidence of a developing breakdown.


I seem to remember he might have radioed someone (maybe his wife or girlfriend) and confessed. (I could be making this up.) I recall that the boat was made out of plywood and started taking on water almost imediately out of port.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

CBinRI said:


> I also read a somewhat recent book on the race, generally, that had a lot on Crowhurst, although the name presently escapes me. Something like a Race or a Voyage for Madmen or something like that. I liked it despite my bad memory.


The book was Voyage for Madmen by Peter Nichols. Great read, only finished it last week. Covers the Crowhurst debacle quite thoroughly.

Crowhurst didn't confess as such but from his log(s) it was obvious that he came to realise that his fantasy log would not stand up to scrutiny. Some members of the race committee, Francis Chichester in particular, were on record as having doubts about Crowhurst's veracity and had stated their intention to give the log of the Teignmouth Electron a good going over when Crowhurst returned to the UK.

The campaign was a disaster from start to finish. Half his supplies and spare parts were left sitting on the dock when he departed, his lines were so badly tangled that he had to be towed back in before he even crossed the starting line. Amazingly he even stopped in a small South American village for repairs. Because the Spanish official misread his name and so entered a false name in the documents Crowhurst though he had got away with it. (In Spanish if your name is Donald Frederick Crowhurst you are referred to as Sr Frederick not Sr Crowhurst. Frederick being your paternal surname, Crowhurst your Maternal. So he was cleared in under the name of Frederick.)

Cheers

Andrew

ps - Frederick was not his real middle name. I don't remember what it really was.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> Huhhhhh, no!
> 
> please, simple... on what side should the coffe's cup handle be on a Rn ship, and on a US Navy ship..


Left - RN
Right - USN

Gawd only knows why.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

TDW, I am not going to push this anymore...

the answer is ON THE OUTSIDE, otherwise you would get your fingers wet....

Please no offenses, ok??


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> TDW, I am not going to push this anymore...
> 
> the answer is ON THE OUTSIDE, otherwise you would get your fingers wet....
> 
> Please no offenses, ok??


Damn you damn you damn you. Knew it was a bloody trick question, stupid wombat should have nutted it out. Bastardo !!   

In reality having a good laugh. Well done Giulietta, well done, no offence taken at all. (sound of grinding teeth for which there is no emoticon.) 

Cheers mate

Andrew


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## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

TDW and Giulietta, Thank you, thank you, thank you. Had a great belly laugh with that exchange.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

*Hehehehehehehe*

     

G'day mate!!!

Hey TDW!!! got you there, huh??? I wonder how many I got, that will not admit to it!!!     Just wondering!!!
Sometimes big things come in small packages.....


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> G'day mate!!!
> 
> Hey TDW!!! got you there, huh??? I wonder how many I got, that will not admit to it!!!     Just wondering!!!
> Sometimes big things come in small packages.....


I suppose the only comeback from that would be....

Hoist on my own petard ??? Otherwise known as Wombat on a stick. 

(off topic really, Petard is not a nautical term) but I will petarr in your general direction.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

tdw said:


> I suppose the only comeback from that would be....
> 
> Hoist on my own petard ??? Otherwise known as Wombat on a stick.
> 
> (off topic really, Petard is not a nautical term) but I will petarr in your general direction.


TDW, the only thing I understand from your post is:

I suppose the only comeback from that would be...

Everything else.... well I read it 3 times and couldn't figure out what language you used!!!!   

Can you re-write that, please???hehehehehehe


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> TDW, the only thing I understand from your post is:
> 
> I suppose the only comeback from that would be...
> 
> ...


Not going to be easy. A petard was a hand held bomb that was attached to the gates of a castle to assist the storming of said castle. One lucky fella got to carry the thing to the gates , attach it, prime it, then run for his life before the thing exploded. Obviously this was a somewhat perilous undertaking that often resulted in the poor chap being blown to pieces by his own bomb. The expression entered the English language to mean an event that blows up in your face, i.e. backfires. The word comes from the French 'petarr' which is , shall we say, an anatomical backfire.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

TDW,

Thank you mate!!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> TDW,
> 
> Thank you mate!!


meu prazer amigo !


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

OK here is a trully NAUTICAL question.

Please if you DO know the answer, don't post it, please, to let others look at it, too, OK?. If you know the answer, PM me and I will tell you if its correct. You can post here saying you know the answer, but don't reveal it. please.

After a few PM I will post the a copy of the first correct answer.

here it goes:

You have a pool, with a boat floating on it. What displaces more water, if you throw a penny into the water, or if you throw the penny into the boat??


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## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

"petarr in your general direction" TDW - Do I detect a bit of Monty Python there? For full effect, I trust you were typing with a French accent while tapping your helmet and blowing a rasberry. 

Giulietta, ah right I'll wait.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Parley said:


> "petarr in your general direction" TDW - Do I detect a bit of Monty Python there? For full effect, I trust you were typing with a French accent while tapping your helmet and blowing a rasberry.
> 
> Giulietta, ah right I'll wait.


Aye, that you do laddie, and after that coffee cup nonsense he deserved it !  Now, onto this penny malarky......


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## ThunderFog (Aug 14, 2006)

I haven't seen any one define some of the terms I grew up hearing on the boat:
Thing a ma bob
the Who's a what's it
MoBob
Whirly gig


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## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

tdw said:


> Now, onto this penny malarky......


All I know is that Archimedes holds the key. Thought it might be another trick question. Alas, it is not.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Yes,

indeed he does...
and I promise its not a trick question.

I'll repeat it, ok??

You have a pool, with a boat floating on it. What displaces more water, if you throw a penny into the water, or if you throw the penny into the boat??


Please don't post the answer. If you want PM me I will tell you if you're right or wrong.

Some people are close, but so far no one has answered correctly, and why.


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## Parley (Jul 13, 2006)

A whirly gig?!

Isn't that the thing-a-ma-bob atop the mast that spins around to fend off the birds? :O


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

got a PM from TDW he almost got it, but.... not quite.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!

ThunderFog is the brainy one!!!!! must be a good sailor!!!

His answer is correct.

Coin on boat displaces its weight, coin on water displaces its volume. Because the metal of penny is denser than water, it displaces its weight in the boat.

His answer:

The coin displaces more water by being in the boat. The reason is.... The coin only displaces the same amount of water as it's volume when thrown into the water but when thrown into the boat it displaces enough water that would float it's mass. Which is considerable grater then it's own volume or it would float. Unless of course the boat is not floating but resting on the bottom of the pool in which the coin thrown into the pool would displace more.


YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSs
we have a winner!!!!!!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> got a PM from TDW he almost got it, but.... not quite.


Story of my life, almost but no cigar. Why isn't there an emoticon for 'having a sulk'.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> got a PM from TDW he almost got it, but.... not quite.


Actuall, just realised that G was being kind. In reality I had the thing completely arse about face.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Here's two more: What's a spring lay mooring line and why do rigging knives not have points on the end?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> Here's two more: What's a spring lay mooring line and why do rigging knives not have points on the end?


No bleeding idea as to a spring lay line but i've noticed that not all rigging knives are pointless.


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## yotphix (Aug 18, 2006)

Depends on who you ask about the knives. Ground off by the RN either to prevent fights becoming to deadly or to prevent accidental stickings. Mine is definitely to prevent the latter since I hardly ever knife fight anymore.
Spring Lay? Well I cheated on that. It is a 6 strand with each strand being part wire and part fibre. Purpose? Heckifiknow!

Good terms site:
http://www.ropeinc.com/rope-glossary-terms.html


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## Bill Mc (Apr 10, 2006)

*Plucking the Yew.*

Have you heard about Plucking the Yew?

Before the battle of Agincourt in 1415, the French, anticipating victory over the English, proposed to cut off the middle finger of all captured English soldiers. For without the middle finger it would be impossible to draw the renowned English longbow, and therefore they would be incapable of fighting in the future. This weapon was made of the native English Yew tree and the act of drawing the longbow was known as "Plucking the Yew." However, much to the bewilderment of the French, the English won a major upset that day and began mocking the French by waving their middle fingers at the defeated French, saying, "See, we can still Pluck the Yew!" Over the years some "folk etymologies" have grown up around this symbolic gesture. Since "Pluck Yew" is rather difficult to say, like "pleasant mother pheasant plucker" which is where you had to go for the feathers used on the arrows for the longbow. The difficult consonant cluster at the beginning has gradually changed to a labiodental fricative "F" and so, sometimes the words often used in conjunction with the one-finger-salute are mistakenly thought to have something to do with an intimate encounter. In addition, because of the pheasant feathers on the arrows, the ancient symbolic gesture is also known as "giving the bird." So now you know why there are so many boaters out there who seem to think this is the proper gesture for displaying a, uh, shall we say, less than favorable gesture to those who anchor too close, or jet-ski around anchored boats. It has been a natural and nautical gesture for sailors since the 1400's.

Fair Winds,

Bill


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

I am not sur if that description of pluck yew is acurate but if it is not then it's a damn good line of malecowshiphighintransit.
pigslo


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Spring lay line is in fact composed of wire and manila. Each strand is composed of equal parts wire and manila, then laid up right handed. It appeared around WW II and offered the strength of wire while maintaining the flexibility of manila. It was used for mooring lines. The Dupont company put the concept out of business with the invention of Nylon.

Knives aboard US flag vessels are not allowed to have a point, by law. You may recall some of the old movies where the bosun' is shown breaking off the points of new seaman's knives. The law was/is an attempt to mitigate injury to the ship's company if a seaman went berserk or was drunk and fighting. The law is still on the books, although not widely enforced. Initially I thought it a foolish law, but after a number of years at sea, I came to see the wisdom of it. Seamen, who get drunk on shore, have a way of arriving back at the ship ready to settle scores with fellow ship-mates. The best advise I received as a new Chief Mate was that when this happened, finish your coffee slowly, get up slowly, and by all means walk down slowly to see what was going on. Sutureing and bandaging are skills the Mate must have, but better employed on others, rather than ones self! BTW, the practise of ignoring/avoiding drunks served me well. If confronted they only become more agitated and violent. If left to their own devices, they pass out, go to sleep, fall overboard, but generally make one's own life less "interesting". Works on shore also.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

*Coffee Cups*

Hey G,
Amazingly enough I found the real answer to the great coffee cup handle condundrum.
Andrew


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

One major reason many rigging knife blades don't have a sharp point...there's really no need and if you're cutting a jammed safety harness off...it's much easier and safer to do if your knife isn't pointy...much less likely to stab the person... salt water + bleeding = sharks... bad...


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

What is St. Elmo's fire?


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

What are "breast hooks"?

This is an actual real item in ship construction and not particularly fascinating in and of itself, but I couldn't resist the temptation of eliciting your informed responses!


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## astraeus (Jan 30, 2006)

St. Elmo's fire....Ball Lightning


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

I read it and I'm still not sure.
Reinforcements of some type in the bow at the stem?


*BREAST-HOOKS*

BREAST-HOOKS, (_guirlandes_, Fr. from _breast_ and _hook_) are thick pieces of timber, incurvated into the form of knees, and used to strengthen the fore-part of the ship, where they are placed at different heighths directly across the stem, so as to unite it with the bows on each side. 
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/The breast hooks are strongly connected to the stem and hawse-pieces by tree-nails, and by bolts, driven from without, through the planks and hawse-pieces, and the whole thickness of the breast-hooks, upon whose inside those bolts are forelocked, or clinched, upon rings. They are usually about one-third thicker, and twice as long as the knees of the decks which they support. 
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/There are generally four or five of these pieces in the hold between the kelson and the lower-deck, in the form of R, (plate I. PIECES _of the_ HULL), upon the uppermost of which the planks of that deck are rabitted. There are two placed between the lower and the second decks, in the form of S, (plate I.), one of which is immediately beneath the hawse-holes, and the other under the second deck, whose planks are inlaid thereon, and upon which the inner-end of the bowsprit frequently rests. 
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/ 
Plate I
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/The fore-side of the breast-hook, which is convex, is formed so as to correspond with the place in which it is stationed, that is to say, it conforms exactly to the interior figure of that part of the bow where it ought to be sayed: accordingly the branches, or arms, of the breast-hooks, make a greater angle as they are more elevated above the keel, whilst the lower ones are more incurvated, and are almost figured like the crotches. 
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/As it is not necessary that the inner, or concave, side of these pieces, should retain a regular form, the artificers frequently let them remain as thick as possible, to give additional support to the ship's-fore part, where she sustains the whole shock of resistance in dividing the fluid, or in plunging down into it. http://www.sailnet.com/forums/It is evident that the connexion and solidity of the ship. in this place will be reinforced in proportion to the strength and extent of the breast-hooks, so that they may cover a greater number of the head-timbers.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> What is St. Elmo's fire?


St elmo's fire is a rapid electrostatic electroluminiscent discharge caused by the ionization of the air in the vicinity of an small metalical object, normally above ground level.

Wrongly called a fire it is in reality a plasma created by the large atmospheric potential difference.

Its name's origins (São Erasmo, or St Erasmus) dates back to the earliy sailors (from the country of yours trully), that believed that São Telmo ou Fogo de Santelmo (St. Elmo), the saint of sailors, was blessing the ship.

Phisically its a white-bluish brilliance, sometimes assumes the form of a spark, and and appears also in land thin sharp objects such as church posts, staks etc.

Some sailors were scared because during the discharges, the compasses changed direction.

Benjamin Franklin in 1649 correctly concluded that it was an electrical phenomenon.

Did you know it was responsible for downing many blimps??

The Greeks called it HELENA, CASTPOR AND POLLUX, but I wouldn't trust naked statues!!!


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## sidiag (Jul 5, 2003)

Define the phrase

"Hell to pay" 

with regard to sailing (this should be easy)


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

If I recall, it derived from when boats were allowed to become aground and turned on their side during low tide. They did this to apply pitch to the keel seams. There would be "Hell to pay" when the tide came back in and the seams weren't done. 

I also recall that bottom keel seam, where it adjoined the last garboard, being referred to as the "Devil" (Devil to pay), because it was difficult to reach - probably where the expression came from.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

"Hell to pay" 

I assume a brand new 100' SWAN would be Hell to pay!!!


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## sidiag (Jul 5, 2003)

TrueBlue said:


> I also recall that bottom keel seam, where it adjoined the last garboard, being referred to as the "Devil" (Devil to pay), because it was difficult to reach - probably where the expression came from.


This was the answer that I was looking for. Could also have an extra twist to the plank - making it difficult to fasten properly.

31 minutes from question to answer - said it would be easy.

(added upon edit)
In the more detail than wanted dept.
---
pay2 (pā) 
_tr.v._, payed or paid (pād), pay·ing, pays. 
To coat or cover (seams of a ship, for example) with waterproof material such as tar or asphalt.
[Obsolete French peier, from Old French, from Latin picāre, from pix, pic-, pitch.]
---


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## svindigo (Sep 11, 2002)

I thought the phrase was "The devil to pay and no pitch hot" and that the devil was the most outboard seam of hte deck and the hull so that if you had the devil to pay you were in a precarious postion. Thanks for the update.


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## svindigo (Sep 11, 2002)

I thought the phrase was "The devil to pay and no pitch hot" and that the devil was the most outboard seam of hte deck and the hull so that if you had the devil to pay you were in a precarious postion. Thanks for the update.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Svindigo, from now you will be knicknamed "two time Svin"  

You repeated repeated yourself twice twice.


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## svindigo (Sep 11, 2002)

oops, oops, double double clicked clicked when when it it should should have have been been a a single


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## Artwerke (Nov 25, 2005)

I could be wrong here,but at a Limey Captains table I'd think they'd be serving tea, not coffee. But I came of age in a world of " black shoes,snipes,deck apes, twidgets, & Khakies". Art


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## slocum2 (Jul 4, 2003)

"Splice the main brace"- time for a little grog!


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

You missed the brown shoe era?


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## sidiag (Jul 5, 2003)

*Up Spirits*

FYI - a tidbit of information 
(from http://www.axfordsabode.org.uk/spirit.htm )
This page might be worth a visit.
- - - 
*







*

*R.I.P.*
*31st July 1970*

A standard naval tot of rum consisted of an eighth of a pint of rum (which was over 50% ABV, and was traditionally named "overproof"). Generally spirits are about 40% in comparison.​Labelling spirits today as overproof or underproof is derived from the early method of treating Jamaica rum in the naval victualling yards before it was issued to the warships. The rum used to arrive in England at 140 degrees overproof after which it was reduced to 95.5 degrees underproof by having water added to it. A small amount of the mixture was poured over some grains of gunpowder and then a magnifying glass was used to ignite it. If the burning alcohol managed to stay alight then it was said to be "proof". And if it didn't light then it was underproof. If it exploded then it was overproof. Proof spirit today is legally defined as that which has a specific gravity of 12/13 (92.3 percent) at 51ºF, and of course they don't do the gunpowder/magnifying glass test any more. 
Once a rating reached the age of twenty he was entitled to draw his tot. Senior Rates were entitled to drink this neat, however Junior Rates had "2 in 1" which meant that it was mixed with two parts water to one part rum. The reason for this was so that the rum could not be stored and saved for another day. The rum was a blend from different countries in the Caribbean, most notably British Guyana, British Virgin Islands and Trinidad
The official reason for stopping the tradition of supplying a tot to ratings was that the Royal Navy had much sophisticated equipment and weaponry onboard and needed sober sailors to operate it. 
It was deemed that the Chief Petty Officers and Petty Officers would be allowed their own bars to purchase any spirits or beer. The Junior Rates would be entitled to purchase an extra can of beer, making three cans of beer a day. In compensation the Sailors Fund would be created with a lump sum that would be invested and used to purchase recreational equipment for ships companies.

- - -


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Thanks for the explanation Stan. I'd thought that it was just another sign of the decline of the British empire.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Artwerke said:


> I could be wrong here,but at a Limey Captains table I'd think they'd be serving tea, not coffee. But I came of age in a world of " black shoes,snipes,deck apes, twidgets, & Khakies". Art


I'd of thought the same thing but this is not the case. Coffee it is and the handle of your coffee cup should face towards the most senior officer.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

What are navigator's balls?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> What are navigator's balls?


The principle of the time ball is that a very large, visible (brightly painted) round object was hoisted up a pole. At an advertised time the ball was dropped and this was the signal for navigators and other interested persons to set their chronometers (watches) to the correct time.
(courtesy of the Cape of Good Hope observatory.)


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Doesn't sound like a very precise way to set one's chronometer. But, no matter, it's not the correct answer. It does have to do with an instrument a navigator uses, but not the chronometer.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> Doesn't sound like a very precise way to set one's chronometer. But, no matter, it's not the correct answer. It does have to do with an instrument a navigator uses, but not the chronometer.


Old steel ships used to , maybe still do, have two balls mounted on either side of the compass to adjust for compensation. Maybe ????


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

What are navigators balls?



tdw said:


> Old steel ships used to , maybe still do, have two balls mounted on either side of the compass to adjust for compensation. Maybe ????


That'd be my guess too....


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

TDW- Yes, most ferrous ships do... IIRC they need them to cancel out the magnetic fields that may be part of the ship itself... 

Sailaway-

It wasn't all that precise, but you've got to remember that the standard of precision back when this was done was measured in seconds per month, rather than the fractions of seconds per month that we're used to today.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> What are navigator's balls?


Naaaaa...... you're all wrong..It's slang...

Part of Columbus (navigator) male reproductory organs, known as Balls, testicules, scrotum, huevos rancheros, cohones, nuts, VW beetle's flat wheels, marbles, etc.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> Naaaaa...... you're all wrong..It's slang...
> 
> Part of Columbus (navigator) male reproductory organs, known as Balls, testicules, scrotum, huevos rancheros, cohones, nuts, VW beetle's flat wheels, marbles, etc.


This man is obviously a trouble maker. Strike him from the board immediately, in fact young G you are ordered forthwith to get ye to the bridge and polish the navigators cohones. Be thankful they is not muchas grandes.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

I know they are small...they're Australian!!!   

Merry Christmas TD!! 

I'm sailing all day tomorrow!!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> I know they are small...they're Australian!!!
> 
> Merry Christmas TD!!
> 
> I'm sailing all day tomorrow!!


Small perhaps but perfectly formed !!

Have a good one yourself Alex. I'll be around for the weekend. We're not scheduled to leave until Tuesday but Wednesday is probably a better bet.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Yes indeed, otherwise known as quadrantal correctors. And they correct the magnetic compass for the horizontally placed soft iron in the vessel-as previously stated.
Here's an easy one. What time is noon?


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

When the sun is at its highest in its arc across the sky.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

What were you doing? Sitting on the send key?<G> What's the significance of that, my porcine friend?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> Yes indeed, otherwise known as quadrantal correctors. And they correct the magnetic compass for the horizontally placed soft iron in the vessel-as previously stated.
> Here's an easy one. What time is noon?


Aye but is it better to polish the quadrantal correctors ? I think not !


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Quadrantal correctors are made of soft iron and, as such, do not polish up too well. They are usually painted black, although I've seen them painted red and green in an attempt to achieve a "yachty" look. Always wondered about the capabilities of those who did that; perhaps they should carry it further and paint the port side deck red and starboard green to keep themselves straight! Polishing spheres in general takes an experienced touch; one not found in the average ordinary seaman. Most deep sea crews find the job onerous and prefer some type of shore gang to be employed. While expensive, these laborers can be found in most deep water ports but do display a wide range of proficiency. As in most areas maritime, if you find an individual with the requisite skill, and the work ethic to acheive a superb outcome, it is best to always employ that same individual. For years Olongapo city was renowned for this trade and many experienced seamen would have their sphere work done nowhere else. Weather and cargo requirements sometimes required employing others will less skill, although the results were, surprisingly, much the same. When spheres acheive a brass, or brass-like state, it has been found that a vigorous rubbing by virtually anyone at hand is sufficient to polish them enough until the job can be done properly by a competent professional.


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## lamb0174 (Jul 17, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> St elmo's fire is a rapid electrostatic electroluminiscent discharge caused by the ionization of the air in the vicinity of an small metalical object, normally above ground level.


Is this phenomenon also responsible for the "green flash?"


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

lamb0174 said:


> Is this phenomenon also responsible for the "green flash?"


If you are refering to the one seen on sunset, no.

That one is a light refraction, of the sun's light thru the atmosphere. Like the mirror image on a hot road.


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