# Getting ready for the big journey



## Wintermute77 (Jul 11, 2017)

Hello Everyone,

just recently I've made the decision to take 5-10 years of my life to sail around the world with my wife and my daughter.

Five years ago, after getting fed up with a life full of turmoil and conflict mostly caused by myself, I got rid of everything I owned, went to India, bought a motorbike and rode around the country for more than a year. This turned out to be the best decision I ever made. I studied meditation and yoga, met my wife and finally settled in NYC. I got a good job, I built a house and in January, my daughter was born.

Now, I'm starting to feel I need to shake things up again and it's time to start to set up the next big adventure. Just as recklessly racing cars and motorbikes in my youth came very handy in riding safely around India, in a similar fashion, I do have a fair bit of sailing / racing experience, but I've never sailed off shore or taken long cruises.

The aim of my journey is not so much to seek thrills and see every corner of the world, as it is to delve deeper into my relationship with my family, to deal with issues of intimacy, monotony and survival without the convenient distractions of a routine regiment of work and recreation.

My (flexible) goal is to set off in two years, when my daughter turns three and is steady on her feet and able to communicate well. I joined this forum to gather information on the choice of the boat, preparation, route planning and technical advice, as well as advice on legal and administrative issues.

My planned budget will be about $150k for the boat and about $25k annual disposable funds.

I am very excited to join this community and very appreciative of the people who work to run it and the members who fill it up with life!

Happy winds to all of you!


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

My advice is not to listen to advice. 

Thousands will tell you why and how you can't do it. 


Only you can tell you you can do it. 


☺


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Sounds like an immanently reasonable and doable plan. From your brief bio I bet the largest challenge will be doing this with a wife and young child. You're obviously an adventurer and free spirit at heart. Bringing two people along may be new. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Wintermute77 (Jul 11, 2017)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> My advice is not to listen to advice.
> 
> Thousands will tell you why and how you can't do it.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mark! The advice I'm seeking is all about the 'how', not about the 'if'. This is happening! :captain:


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## Wintermute77 (Jul 11, 2017)

MikeOReilly said:


> Sounds like an immanently reasonable and doable plan. From your brief bio I bet the largest challenge will be doing this with a wife and young child. You're obviously an adventurer and free spirit at heart. Bringing two people along may be new.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yes, Mike, her education, socialization and the task of giving her all the attention she needs by a lot less people than normal is definitely one of the core challenges.

Thanks!


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## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

You're plan is fairly similar to mine. I just purchased my Tartan 37 in May, and I'm now working on preparing myself and the boat for the start of the big journey in either 2 or 3 years.

Biggest difference is that I'm going it alone. That's a pretty big difference. My budget is also about 1/2 of yours, probably less of an issue given that you need to be ready for 3 people, and I just have to be ready for myself.

I have a feeling we'll be asking a lot of the same questions.

Depending on how much space you need, you should be able to get a nice boat for $150k. Make sure you budget some for the unexpected, since every boat has hidden repair costs ... no matter how carefully you inspect it. Personally, I budgeted $45k for the purchase, and $25k for repairs and upgrades. Time will tell how accurate that is. Look at boats on the great lakes, they're generally better cared for than saltwater boats and you get more for your money ... enough so that it's often worth it in spite of the cost of trailering to the ocean.

Also, if you don't _enjoy_ shopping, the process of finding a boat can be extremely overwhelming, frustrating, and exhausting; as was the case with me. Just don't get discouraged if you encounter the same issue.


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## Wintermute77 (Jul 11, 2017)

BillMoran said:


> post


Congrats Bill, hope she treats you well.

Thanks for the tip about the Great Lakes, makes a lot of sense.

You hit the nail on the head about the shopping. It's not something I enjoy at all, and with the variety, quantity and distance of the boats, I'm sure it's going to cause some frustration.

My budget for the boat includes everything to get it to the starting grid. My biggest concern is getting a strong hull and doubling up on all life support equipment. As you pointed out there are more of us and it's not just the money that multiplies, but also the responsibility.

Good luck!


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

Wintermute77 said:


> Yes, Mike, her education, socialization and the task of giving her all the attention she needs by a lot less people than normal is definitely one of the core challenges.


It is very refreshing that you have this attitude as many would-be cruisers with kids don't. Cruising can give children a lot, but it can also take a lot away - probably more extremely on both sides of the coin than for the parents. You may find that you have to compromise on some of the things you want to get out of your planned journey to give your daughter the things she needs.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I set sail on my circumnavigation @ 22 from Frisco with my girl friend (later wife) and we had our child in Hawaii. Left there for Tahiti when she was a few months old. Boat kids grow up to be great people.
Don't let anyone tell you that you cannot live your dreams just because you have a kid. The kid will get to live its own life later. Schooling *was* available through a school in Virginia called Calvert, designed for state department kids whose parents were overseas. Everything, right down to the paper, pencils and erasers was included, but for the first few years it is very time consuming for the parents.
The sailing, especially offshore, is the easy part. Anchoring, picking anchorages, learning weather, maintenance and repairs are the more difficult things you will have to master.
The cruising guides available for most areas these days make cruising pretty easy compared to the huge blank areas on the charts I had to deal with, in some of the more remote areas.
On choosing a boat, I recommend you concern yourself with a well built vessel that will be a comfortable *home*, first and foremost. Few cruisers sail more than 10% of the time, and though your comfort at sea is certainly important, if your boat/home isn't comfortable at anchor, I doubt that cruising will be very enjoyable or long lasting.
Good luck and have fun.


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## Wintermute77 (Jul 11, 2017)

Thanks for the posts @4arch and @capta!

The focus is learning to get on with life on a boat, a journey agenda is secondary.

I'm sure that being with a kid is not only a challenge for them, but also us, as we would have to give her all the attention, rather than sharing it with friends, family, kindergarten and school. I do intend to try to host friends on the boat a lot, but still, I definitely see this as a challenge, albeit a very intriguing one. I'm actually excited to do home schooling and review the curriculum with an adult's head.

So far, the boat that is most appealing to me is the Amel Maramu 46. Of course, I'm far from having seen one up close.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

I really like those Amels. You may have seen SVDelos on youtube - they have one, and if those videos don't sell you on the boat, nothing will. Good luck!!


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## Wintermute77 (Jul 11, 2017)

Sal Paradise said:


> Super Maramu 53]


Heh, yeah, that's a sweet boat, but almost double my budget. I was eyeing the older 46. Not sure how the center cockpit affects the main cabin dimensions. Anyhoo, it's just a love at first site thing, I'll be doing a lot more research and comfort is a very high priority.

Thanks for the video!


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Wintermute77 said:


> The aim of my journey is not so much to seek thrills and see every corner of the world, as it is to delve deeper into my relationship with my family, to deal with issues of intimacy, monotony and survival without the convenient distractions of a routine regiment of work and recreation.


OK, as Mark said - here it comes; there must be a better/ cheaper and easier way to work on family relationships, eh? A sailboat has to be the worst way!!!! And isn't a sailboat just a huge distraction itself? Finally,I believe that a family man should put the happiness and well being of his wife and kids above all else.

It boils down to - sailing is fun, or a way to travel, or both -right?


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## Wintermute77 (Jul 11, 2017)

Sal Paradise said:


> OK, as Mark said - here it comes; there must be a better/ cheaper and easier way to work on family relationships, eh? A sailboat has to be the worst way!!!! And isn't a sailboat just a huge distraction itself? Finally,I believe that a family man should put the happiness and well being of his wife and kids above all else.
> 
> It boils down to - sailing is fun, or a way to travel, or both -right?


I already like where this thread is going.  I always appreciate deep philosophical conversations. I'll add the caveat, that I'm not quite ready to discuss the details of my personal life and open the hidden doors to my soul to the broad sailing community just yet.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'working on family relationships'. I want to spend more time with them, and become more intimate and live in harmony. At the moment, I leave home when my baby wakes and get home when she is sleeping, and in the meantime my wife is left to deal with everything alone. I want to spend more time with them, I want to be more involved, with all the joys and challenges that this involves.

To me a boat is freedom, a life connected to nature that conveniently can change location on the planet. I guess you can call everything a distraction, but I feel taking care of my living environment and satisfying my family's immediate needs qualifies as less of a distraction than the NYC rat race.

As for the responsibilities of a family man, I respect what you believe and hope that you are able to provide said happiness for your family. As for me, I believe it's everyone's individual quest to find happiness and it is very fortunate if different individuals can align their quests and share happy lives. I don't personally feel responsible for my wife or daughter's happiness. I feel responsible to provide them with attention, support and affection and to teach my daughter the tools she needs to embark on her own quest for happiness.

To me it boils down to sailing is a new way of life and a big adventure. I might be wrong and I have no problem with making mistakes and learning from them.

Thank you for your post, I appreciate it!


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

My spouse and I are childless (by choice), so I can't say much about the kid aspect. However, I can say living and cruising on our smallish sailboat certainly brings us closer together. 

In our old land life there were the constant distractions and stress; work (the big one), gadgets, entertainment, social life. Not saying all this is bad, but it did get in the way of 'us' sometimes. 

On the boat there is mostly just 'us', and most of the time this is great. We explore together, we problem solve together, and we live life together. 

The freedom of owning little, and having a small, mobile home, is great for us. It comes with a lot of focused stresses, but most of these are simple 'how-to-stay-alive' stresses. This is in contrast to the ugly stresses of how to make money, etc.

I think you're on the right track Winter. And thanks for the fun conversation. Always fun...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

MikeOReilly said:


> ....This is in contrast to the ugly stresses of how to make money, etc.....


This is the frog in the pot thing - they/we don't realize what it does to them...the changes.

If you get away, your personal F stop will jump from 1.4 to 22.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I don't see anything wrong logistically with your plan at all. I've quit a couple of jobs to take off to India and Nepal. Pretty well any yacht is going to be a good deal more comfortable than pretty well any roadside accommodation in India. 

I've also done a fair bit of living on boats. My 20's and early 30's I pretty well just lived on ships, I kept a bachelor pad in Toronto, but didn't use it much.

Met my wife in my late 30's and had my son, who came home to our boat (I upgraded from the bachelor apartment to a 35' sailboat by this point) at 27 hours of age.

Great fun. Work sucks and boats are great places to um, get intimate.

However, in my experience, and this is just my personal observation, boats are a little bit like islands. There is nothing there that you don't bring with you.

Don't expect to find a bag or a box full of cheer on board, unless you put it there before you leave.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

You sound like an intelligent man, and if the discussion is to turn towards making a boat such as Maramu into a home for wife and youngster, I think it looks like a good boat for that. One thing I've recently begun to appreciate is that on some more expensive boats you can find interiors with details and comfort that really feel like a tiny house inside. So, that's one aspect. 

Your posts hint at something else, and those are mysteries that are too vast for the forum conversations, indeed too vast for a lifetime. I'm a motorcycle guy, a sailor, a family man so I can relate to the conflict one can feel devoted to their family, but also called to adventure. There is no answer to that, you just live with it. I can tell you that for me dedication to family will ultimately over rule everything. 

I do think we can mostly agree that a sailboat will only exacerbate any problem. They only seem to be solutions in the abstract. IRL they are great but very problematic.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Wintermute77 said:


> I'm sure that being with a kid is not only a challenge for them, but also us, as we would have to give her all the attention, rather than sharing it with friends, family, kindergarten and school. I do intend to try to host friends on the boat a lot, but still, I definitely see this as a challenge, albeit a very intriguing one.


As we were 'just wandering' with no set plans or itinerary, a big focus for us was to hang with any other boats with kids for as long as their plans roughly coincided with where we wanted to be. Otherwise, the kid went with us everywhere, no babysitter, ever. Being outside the US we had no problems taking our kid to a night club or whatever. To this day, I still appreciate that the nations I visit consider me an adult and responsible for myself and my own actions. It is nice to live beyond the reach of the meddlesome nanny state from which I came.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Wintermute77 said:


> Thanks Mark! The advice I'm seeking is all about the 'how', not about the 'if'. This is happening! :captain:


The how is pretty easy. Get a boat that floats and can move on it's own power (sail or motor) and go!! As long as you don't start at day 1 by trying to do a long passage it the open you can figure it all out along the way. Sailing is only hard on the Internet!

And don't read of those crazy books!


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## Wintermute77 (Jul 11, 2017)

Arcb said:


> However, in my experience, and this is just my personal observation, boats are a little bit like islands. There is nothing there that you don't bring with you.


That's a very nice thought @Arcb, I'll take that with me!


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

Wintermute77 said:


> At the moment, I leave home when my baby wakes and get home when she is sleeping, and in the meantime my wife is left to deal with everything alone. I want to spend more time with them, I want to be more involved, with all the joys and challenges that this involves.


I feel your pain on this as I'm currently in a similar boat with a new infant at home. But cruising isn't as much of a silver bullet for family togetherness as you're imagining. When underway, one parent manages the kid(s) and the other the boat. My wife and I trade off to some extent but since I'm the more experienced sailor, most of the skippering falls to me and most of the kid care falls to her. When not underway, there's always some boat repair, chore, provisioning, trip planning, or laundry to do and these things take up more time than you imagine. If you're trying to bring work with you - which we mostly try not to - the frustration of finding reliable internet makes everything take longer. For any boat work that involves paints, chemicals, fumes, or dust I send the girls away so they're not exposed. So yes, you'll have greater quantity of time and more physical proximity with the family, and likely more quality time too, but it's certainly not a panacea.



Wintermute77 said:


> As for the responsibilities of a family man, I respect what you believe and hope that you are able to provide said happiness for your family. As for me, I believe it's everyone's individual quest to find happiness and it is very fortunate if different individuals can align their quests and share happy lives. I don't personally feel responsible for my wife or daughter's happiness. I feel responsible to provide them with attention, support and affection and to teach my daughter the tools she needs to embark on her own quest for happiness.


I basically agree with you although I additionally believe one of my responsibilities as a parent is to provide my young daughters with as wide of a range of cultural, travel, outdoor, and adventure experiences as I can possibly manage before they reach 18. Providing happiness is not the main goal of these experiences although it's often a pleasant side-effect. I really want them to have a well-developed worldview and the confidence to try new things and interact with a wide range of people. While many of these experiences can be pursued at little to no cost, they're not always free and not even always cheap.

You've identified an annual spending budget of $25K and that is essentially elective poverty. I'm not sure it's even possible within that budget to keep a 40-something foot boat passage-ready on top of feeding, clothing, and caring for a family of 3 - but even if you can pull it off there won't be 2 pennies left for any kind of non-free fun or entertainment. Make sure you're OK with that and OK with the sacrifices that entails. You certainly have some insight into this already based on your past adventures - but kids in the mix very much change the equation.


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## Wintermute77 (Jul 11, 2017)

4arch said:


> lots of words


That's a very insightful post, thank you for sharing it!

Do you think $25k a year means a poverty line lifestyle even if you spend lots of time in cheaper parts of the world and spend longer periods in one location?


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

4arch said:


> You've identified an annual spending budget of $25K and that is essentially elective poverty.


What a strange statement.
I'd have no problems cruising a well found 40 odd foot sailing vessel on 25k a year and living rather well while I'm doing it. I could probably bank about 10%, as well. However, I don't need or even want rib eye steak every other night, grilled lobster or Johnny Walker Gold as my liquor of choice to get drunk on every night. I can eat as the locals do quite happily and drink as they do, as well. In fact, I much prefer eating with the locals at the rather unfancy eating establishments they frequent, and I very much like the local food better than most of the pretentious crap dished out at great expense, in the tourist traps.
When I was in south east Asia, my wife and I could not physically carry $10.00's worth of fruits and vegetables, purchased at an open market. We had to hire help to get it to the bus station. Same in many South American and Arab countries. Even here in the expensive West Indies, if I eat as the locals do, I can eat fresh food, uncontaminated by pesticides, growth hormones or antibiotics, for a lot less than in the US or Europe. And guess what? A tomato tastes like a tomato. A mango tastes like a mango and neither taste like a piece of flavored cardboard.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

^Capta, be quiet mate. Those are the secrets of cruising that the 3K a month thread has no idea about. It would take a person with incredible reading comprehension skills and a modicum of common sense to figure out.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

If you buy in bulk, a meal of 'rice and beans' will run you about $.30...30 cents.
That's a staple meal around the world.
Now add other things you like, as your mood dictates.

If you're eating out in the tourist spots....
If you are drinking/partying at the tourist bars...
If you are tied up at marinas in touristy locations...
Have Wallet - Will Travel

Those mahi fillets in your freezer cost you some solar power...and maybe a previously lost lure...
Butter goes well with those lobsters you tossed in the dinghy at the reef.
The open markets offer cheap veggies galore...plus a fun experience that is real life.
The lady 4 houses up and to the left - the green and blue house - cooks whole chickens. Her sister has many spices, but be careful - she also makes voodoo dolls...the real ones that work...

Some people feel more comfy with the insulation...perceived safety of the cocoon.

Many ways to do it...


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