# Fond Fairwell



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Dear friends and comrades,

I am not sure the moderators will even allow this open thread to remain or will censor it and remove as it may not be flattering to their interests. We will see. Free speach may help with a discussion to improve this forum, but censorship is always easier and less painfull.

I know that I have made friends on here, annoyed others, helped some, gained knowledge and even had some fun. To all of you I have posted with/ to it was always meant in a positive manner.

My wife and I have always looked at Sailnet as a forum for learning from, meeting and sharing the camraiderie of sailors in our area (The Chesapeake) as well as where we cruise ( Long Island). We have tried to help contribute to this hosting an annual Sailnet Rondevous every year at our club to foster these relationships. After 4 years this year was the first time we dealt with a Sailnet member who tried to undermine the event. 

We have made wonderfull friends on here which will carry over and will continue to raft up with get together with them socially. We will continue to leave our PM open to messages for communication purposes. We will continue to host an invited Chesapeake party for sailors at the Maryland Yacht Club the second complete weekend in June, so we can carry on with the tradition which has been started. 

We have also beleived in a certain level of expertise and fairness from the site as well as the moderators of the forum and beleive that will not occur. 

We beleive that Sailnet is drifting away from their original message, thus the exodus of quite a few number of serious sailors some of who were our friends to other sailing forums. It may be that these administrative things have take a normal couirse of action, and it maybe the way that Sailnet has chosen to maintain or increase future memebership,, but in light of recent decisions by the controlling board of Sailnet we no longer wish to support by actively participating. 

We are serious sailors and do not need a new social interaction site as it is becoming.

After much deliberation and great thought and after 4.5 yeras and 2,700 posts my wife and I have decided we will no longer post publically on Sailnet and will search for an internet forum which more appropriately meets and matches our goals for sailing.

As I have learned in life pendulums, swing back and forth and that given enough time the true personality and character of people eventually reveal themselves.

Good luck to you all, may fair winds follow you whereever you travel. and may the camradiere of sailing always fill the cockpits of your boats and lives.

Dave and Donna


----------



## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

Well shucks. Drop a line to me if you come across a place you like. I'm an in betweener. I like the on topic knowledge base and I used to like the off topic sludge forum. In the past year, it seems that the off topic area has gotten nasty and my participation in that area has declined. I've not noticed the same sort of degradation in the on topic area. I've made some good friends here too. I've met about a half dozen folks here in person and consider them all friends. It sucks to see nice folks like you guys reduce your participation. Nuts.


----------



## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Hey Dave,

I'm sorry to see you go. You're a great guy and we'd love to see you again when we're up for Gov Cup in August (same place, I think). Vicky has been scolding me for not offering you a drink last year (I swear that I did).

I suppose that I'm an in-between-er like erps. I haven't seen any degradation in the sailing forums and don't read the off-topic stuff. In my experience, 99% of the posts are respectful and I can only recall very few from obnoxious trolls. I guess that I just don't care enough to respond to the flamers. :laugher

I'll drop you a PM.

Mark


----------



## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

Dave & Donna,

You've been great members of our community, and we will all be the poorer for your absence. 

Fair winds. Hope to see you both in another (digital) anchorage.

Best,
PF


----------



## Lou452 (Mar 2, 2012)

If the good men and ladies leave who will be left? A building needs every brick It can stand with one or two gone and a few bad ones... but it is a lost none the less. 10 men were helped one came back to give thanks. If you come back for just one man you have my thanks. Fair winds to you a man and lady I have not meet. LOU


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Chef - sorry to see you go. It looks like you've been hitting the "War of 1812" thread pretty hard. That OT political stuff never had much appeal to me - though I used to love OT for FightClub (it was sailing-related of course). But I don't even do much of anything in OT anymore. It's now all about sailing.

I've never understood why people get so bent in political/OT topics (that have nothing to do with sailing), then say that SN has "lost its way". Not that that's your only reason for hitting the road. Just sayin'.

Whoever the knucklehead was that tried to undermine your gathering should get a boot in the pecans. What's up with that?

You ought to check out Cruising Anarchy. Great bunch of guys over there - and they definitely know their stuff (although SN is still one of the most informative and fun forums on the planet).

Do what you gotta.


----------



## lancelot9898 (Dec 30, 2008)

Always enjoyed reading your posts. Sorry to see you leave.


----------



## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

I enjoyed your posts and contributions and hope you decide not to leave Sailnet. Pity.


----------



## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

Fair winds, Dave & Donna, wherever you go in both the virtual and IRL sailing worlds. Will miss your input here.


----------



## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Ah guys, it's just the internet.... Don't go!


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

chef2sail said:


> Dear friends and comrades,
> 
> I am not sure the moderators will even allow this open thread to remain or will censor it and remove as it may not be flattering to their interests. We will see. Free speach may help with a discussion to improve this forum, but censorship is always easier and less painfull.
> 
> ...


I am sorry to see you decide to stop posting.
I am sorrier that you felt you had to start a thread to announce your decision and passive-aggressively insult the rest of the members of this forum and the moderators.
If you feel that the tone has changed and you are unhappy with it, why not start a thread discussing it, looking for suggestions on how to change it?
THAT would be positive.
THIS is a slap in the face.


----------



## Leocat66 (Dec 11, 2010)

We have enjoyed your input over the years and are sorry to see you depart. We are the losers. It seems that now and then, when we post an on the edge opinion, on a hot topic, some, instead of calmly discussing it, will become angry, and send out the flames without thinking or caring. We have experienced that problem here and on other forums also. This is our society today and sadly it is not confined to computers. We too are tiring of it, and as a result are posting less than before, on all forums, not that we have ever been very active posters. We have received much more than we have offered. 

"Forum Rage" I guess.

Smooth seas, Fair winds, God Bless,

S/V "ROSA"


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Sonnds like a wake!! I'm staying¡


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Chef,

Perhaps a break is in order? Why make it permenent though?


----------



## KIVALO (Nov 2, 2011)

I'm relatively new to this forum but I have seen you post on various topics, Chef. I wont comment on the legitimacy of your reasons, I have no doubt you consider them valid and that's all that matters. I will offer this though, Sailnet is tame by comparison to many other forums. It would be a shame to loose a contributing member over the "sillyness" that often is displayed by people on web forums. Relative anonymity & subsequent lack of consequences have strange effects on people. Perhaps a simple vacation would help? Hey I know... go sailing! 

Whatever you decide, enjoy.

Brad
s/v KIVALO


----------



## Beaverkill (Aug 22, 2011)

I am relatively new to sailing and this forum and haven’t had a lot of interaction with the members as I am still in my lurking mode and don’t have enough experience in sailing to contribute. But I do know internet forums…I have been a moderator on a very successful regional outdoor forum since 2005. I know what you are going through Chef. At times I can’t stand the nonsense that continually sidetracks every thread and even cringe at the mention of particular users but overall I think the good outweighs the bad…I have made so many good friends from that site over the years including 2 who I now consider my best and most loyal…The information that is passed on and the social interaction either on-line or at functions is just truly remarkable…On the other site, we rallied the troops to successfully beat 2 pieces of legislation that would have seriously impacted the future of fishing and hunting in New Jersey and was powerful enough that the Governor and key state senators talked at a rally started and sponsored by the site…I think about that every time I want to walk away from the site…That being said, I have taken time away from the site, for months at a time, to clear my head and make sure I don’t post or do something rash in response to idiocy…Right now I am in the middle of a 3 week sabbatical from the site…it allows me to enjoy the positives that much more when I do return….
I visited many sailing forums over the last year and found that Sailnet fit my particular needs. The members seemed very informative and welcomed new members regardless of their sailing experience. Since I am new to the site, I don’t know how it was run years ago but do know the biggest issue we discuss on the other site is how it changed over the years and the continual non-sense and worthless threads while the new members all say how great the site is…Sound Familiar?
Chef, you have been on the site for 5 years, while you don’t like the non-sense and the actions of some, try and remember the good…the friends…the get togethers…the information passed…and the contributions you make to the sailnet community and new sailors like myself…Take a break and revisit the site in a few weeks or months…I am sure you will see the good outweighs the bad… Dan


----------



## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

Just keep an eye on the place and take a break.

The pendulum will swing the other way eventually.

Change is inevitable. It'll go back to what you like someday.

I'm new here, but not new to internet forums. I've been posting in them since day 1...and before that was very active in usenet newsgroups. One thing I learned a long time ago: Stay out of OT. 99% of forums have it. Nothing in there but a bunch of smack talk, arguing, insults and people being dumbas$es. Participation only sours you and makes you cynical to certain posters, and this will carry over to the mainstream forums the place is all about. If I hosted a forum, it would not have an OT section.

I'm on a break from Scubaboard....but I'm still answering PM's and privately helping new Divemasters, Instructors and divers. At some point the Yo-Yo's will go away, and I'll go back.


----------



## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> You ought to check out Cruising Anarchy. Great bunch of guys over there - and they definitely know their stuff
> 
> Do what you gotta.


Ditto to this. smaller group, much bigger knowledge base. The great thing about CA is that they more or less demand people do some legwork on their own. The end result are questions, etc... tend to be more thoughtful. bubbleheads/Ajax is the poster guy for someone who asks great questions and getting the most bang out of CA because he goes to the trouble of actually applying himself and doing his research/sailing/etc...


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

puddinlegs said:


> Ditto to this. smaller group, much bigger knowledge base. *The great thing about CA is that they more or less demand people do some legwork on their own. The end result are questions, etc... tend to be more thoughtful.* bubbleheads/Ajax is the poster guy for someone who asks great questions and getting the most bang out of CA because he goes to the trouble of actually applying himself and doing his research/sailing/etc...


Exactly. I've observed that some people take this to mean that we're rude jerks just because we make them exercise their brain a little.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

BubbleheadMd said:


> Exactly. I've observed that some people take this to mean that we're rude jerks just because we make them exercise their brain a little.


Actually I see it a bit differently. Lots of forums claim that they want posters to use their brains...they just tend to call them idiots and give them all the reasons they shouldn't do something "bigger" than usual. That's what this place used to be like.

But what's cool about CA is that, if you're really intent on doing something that is maybe a bit beyond the pale (but not insane) they'll tell you how to actually DO IT...but do it right. Sure, you still have to do all the legwork, but at least you're getting useful advice.

That's my kind of place. And SN has much more of that kind of attitude now than it had in the past. That's a good thing.


----------



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Dave (Chef),

Sorry to see you come to this decision. I am in a similar position with SN and post here now with a very guarded approach, especially after the last go round with the admins wanting to remove the edit feature over a few bad apples..

We won that battle but if certain rules are not enforced, and certain individuals are allowed to continue their ways, then the "edit ban" will, I believe, still eventually happen.

There are a number of individuals here who make this place considerably less tolerable and they are allowed to continue with their abuse by skirting very closely the forum rules and walking the very fine line as, what I consider and we often refer to on SBO as, "professional trolls"...

The PT's know just what to say to get under your skin and cause a ruffle but they also know exactly how close they can push the rules without getting banned. They are experts in forum mud slinging and drive many newbies away and even some seasoned vets with thousands of posts. Sad really....

These types of trouble makers are the worst offenders in my personal opinion. We simply do not tolerate them on SBO but it is a very differnt forums than SN. We do this to keep the place friendly and welcoming to all. That is our MAIN GOAL. We do not tolerate "PT's or "professional trolls" it is sad they are so tolerated here despite some individuals racking up numerous complaints...

SN is a different place, but I still like it, though less so, with the good guys like you leaving and the serial trouble makers digging their heels deeper and calling it home..

I stick around because I hope to see things change, and I like and trust all the MODS. They just do things differently here than what I see as overall healthy for the forum..

I don't visit OT as I am here only for sailing related topics. I barely have enough time to burn on on-topic let alone the muck and mire of OT stuff. I don't visit it at SBO either unless I need to step in to moderate..

The SN on topic has actually been slightly less vicious and slightly better enforced.. That's a + in my book...

As always members can always use the report post icon








when folks get out of line and SN will become a better place over the long haul.

For now I am toughing it out because I have seen the ups and downs and the mods and members here are generally excellent folks. I try not to let a few bad apples spoil the Cider..


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Maine Sail said:


> The SN on topic has actually been slightly less vicious.. That's a + in my book...


Bingo. And the traffic metrics, new members numbers, and online participation completely bear out the fact that SN has grown and is growing precisely because of that over the past couple of years.

It's all good.


----------



## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> That's my kind of place. And SN has much more of that kind of attitude now than it had in the past. That's a good thing.


actually smack, the problem here is that folks are reading 30-40 year old material and getting a lot of poor advice along the same lines. There's wheat here, and when it's good it's really good, but there's certainly more chaff. The attitude toward racing on SN is mind numbing and mystifying. Many of the CA folks have (and do) both raced and cruised extensively. Then there are the boat builders and designers that post regularly. I'd contend they hang out on CA because there's a lot less knee jerk BS , and maybe most importantly, less geographic myopia than both SN and SA.


----------



## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

bljones said:


> I am sorry to see you decide to stop posting.
> I am sorrier that you felt you had to start a thread to announce your decision and passive-aggressively insult the rest of the members of this forum and the moderators.
> If you feel that the tone has changed and you are unhappy with it, why not start a thread discussing it, looking for suggestions on how to change it?
> THAT would be positive.
> *THIS is a slap in the face*.


Really? You're taking this personally? Wow.


----------



## -OvO- (Dec 31, 2011)

If you don't have an OT forum, you will have off-topic digressions in every on-topic thread. This is a lesson from the early days of Usenet.

Personally, I try to stay out of the OT forum so I can continue with my functional delusion that everyone here are intelligent, rational, likeable people. 

All this discussion about the War of 1812 thread is tempting me, though.

..must ..not ..look...


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Chef, 

As I said to you in my PM, myself and my fellow moderators I would truly hate to see you leave SailNet. Beyond enjoying knowing you and seeing you at events, I consider you to be a knowlegable member who is generous with passing along the lessons of sailing and life. 

I hope that you will at least lurk for a while and see whether anything really changes for the worse around here, and want you know that the door is always open and that you will always be welcome as a contributer. 

Whatever you decide is of course your decision, but if you leave, I personally will miss your wit and wisdom, your contribution around here, and your smiling face. 

Be well,
Jeff


----------



## misfits (Dec 9, 2011)

I haven't been here that long Chef but what advice I've seen coming from you has been sound. Don't let the DBA's get you down.....


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

puddinlegs said:


> Really? You're taking this personally? Wow.


I guess I should have written "This is a slap in the face to the rest of us."


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

puddinlegs said:


> The attitude toward racing on SN is mind numbing and mystifying. Many of the CA folks have (and do) both raced and cruised extensively. Then there are the boat builders and designers that post regularly. I'd contend they hang out on CA because there's a lot less knee jerk BS , and maybe most importantly, less geographic myopia than both SN and SA.


Generally I agree. But I have to admit, in the beginning I didn't get the racing aspect of things. It seemed too hardcore and angst-filled when compared to my desire to relax at the helm with a Dark-and-Stormy, and a bikini-clad babe grinding on the winches.

However, after doing the offshore races over the past year or two - I'm completely sold. It's the most fun and challenging thing I've ever done, and there's no doubt it improves sailing skills better and faster than anything else.

So, that attitude is just ignorance. They don't understand what they're missing - just like I didn't at the time.

I'm still not that into the idea of inshore match racing (where most of the yelling and angst usually occurs) - but I haven't really done much of that yet. So I could change my mind there too.

Sailing is sailing as far as I'm concerned. And I'm not sure I can get enough of it in whatever form, on whatever boat. And this is SAILnet after all.

Offshore racing rocks...especially when we win. And cruising around with the booze and babes rocks too...especially when we score. Heh-heh.


----------



## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

What's this other forum called CA that you speak of?

Oh, and Chef, don't let the winch handle hit you on the way out!  I kid, I kid....


----------



## KIVALO (Nov 2, 2011)

LandLocked66c said:


> What's this other forum called CA that you speak of?
> 
> Oh, and Chef, don't let the winch handle hit you on the way out!  I kid, I kid....


Cruising Anarchy, a sub-forum on Sailing Anarchy.


----------



## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Dave,

Really sorry you feel you need to do this, but I've reached the burn out point on other forums myself, so I can relate to the need to move on. Sometimes its hard to just let go of things, when it seems to get personal as your interaction with at least one sailnetter I'm aware of has. 

I'd like to thank you here in public for the advice and information you're provided me over the years. I truly appreciate the effort you've put forth to help out your fellow sailors, myself included. 

Its sad to loose a resource such as yourself, but I have no doubt someone will rise to the occasion and fill the void as other voices have come to replace valued members like Camraderie, Guiletta and others. Hopefully, we'll be able to hang on to guys like Jeff H, MaineSail, and Mr Perry and some of the rising stars, who like you, have gone beyond the call to share with the sailing community.

I hope with some time and distance you'll gradually forget the crap that drove you away and remember the folks you've helped and those that will find SN in the future that could benefit from your knowledgable input and will return to the forums in the future. I'm sure I'm not the only one here that would welcome you with open arms.

Thanks again for all you've done for the SN community. Fair Winds and Following Seas!

Bill
s/v Palmetto Moon


----------



## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Sorry to see you go Chef--hopefully this will be more of a leave of absence than a departure. 

I have to say I've found the sailing-oriented SN forums to be quite civil these days, yet not boring. A nice place to be. 

As for the OT area, never been there, have no interest.

Regards!


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Along with Jeff and Fast 've sent Chef a message and I'll leave it at that. Suffice it to say none of us are happy to see him go.

OTOH and somewhat OffTopic, I wonder why more is not posted re racing. I know an awful lot of you race on a regular basis including fellow mods Jeff H and Fast yet very little is written up. Lets get a "what about the racers" thread up and running and perhaps get to the bottom of it.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Maine Sail said:


> Dave (Chef),
> 
> Sorry to see you come to this decision. I am in a similar position with SN and post here now with a very guarded approach, especially after the last go round with the admins wanting to remove the edit feature over a few bad apples..
> 
> ...


Couple of things in response to Maine.

The edit business is done with. It is not coming back. Since we put it to bed back then there has been zero discussion as to re introducing it. It was in many ways a good thing but as was discovered when you first complained not fully thought out and the idea was ultimately rejected.

Professional Trolls .... I have been a member here only since 2006 and a Mod for the past three or four years I guess. I have seen members and even moderators come and go. Some went because they had disagreements with other members yes and the Mods have had to take to task various members for their overly aggressive or otherwise unacceptable attitudes yet one thing is certain .... the level of complaints we receive in regard to so called Professional Trolls is minimal in the extreme. Sure it is not all peace love happiness man but even when discussing on topic people have disagreements and sometimes those disagreements get a bit loud.

Personally I reckon SailNet On Topic is a hell of a lot quieter and peaceful today than it was few years back ... be that for good or bad. I'll ignore Off Topic in this chat other than to say I agree with OVO in that having an OffT forum does tend to keep the OnT forums free of OffT waffle.

So, here's a wee challenge for anyone willing to take it up. Make a list of , say, five Professional Trolls who you think inhabit the On Topic threads. Send me that list by PM. Its not something I am willing to go public with but I'd be very interested to get the feedback and I assure you I will check out the postings of each and every member on your lists.

Cheers all

Andrew B


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

tdw said:


> Professional Trolls ....


Ang on a mo! You mean some guys get _paid_ for it? WTH???? No one told me that!!!


----------



## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Wow!

I gotta say that this saddens me to see another valued member leave... but that's progress, I guess.... Cam', 'Dog, and Cardiacpaul (RIP), are all no longer posting here for various reasons. All of the reasons are valid. I recently left a group myself, because I felt that the only moderator was using it to promote a political agenda.

I have to say that SailNet helped infect me with the sailing bug. I believe that I posted enough about the various boats that I looked at, when I was shopping, to make some members wish that it had been a terminal illness:... I continue to post, in the hope of paying some of it back.

I feel for the mods. They get paid squat, for a time consuming, and thankless job. Don't be too critical of them.

Anyway, if it is only a member or two that are getting under your skin, please use the IGNORE MEMBER feature, rather than cast us all aside. I won't share those that are on my list, but I will share that the number is greater than one. I really appreciate not having to see their [cough, bs, cough] posts.

I hope that you reconsider, but will respect that you gotta do what's right for you.


----------



## Familycruisers (Dec 15, 2011)

WTH dude! We just met IRL cuz of this place, you cant go anywhere. Look at all the people that are asking you to stay. That alone should speak volumes.


----------



## rugosa (Aug 30, 2011)




----------



## Murph (Jun 24, 2012)

Here's my nickle: I'm new here and might not know a doosh from a donut but I've learned a whole lot about sailing(and sailors) in a very short time on this site.

As usual, there are all sorts here: the calm, the abrasive, the obnoxious, the flat-out a-hole, the decent, the kind and the crazy.....just like the real world but without the ugly :laugher

I've seen no leanings one way or the other and felt no pressure except the occasional post to please stop posting!

What I have seen is a whole lot of decent folks who take the time to offer insight, advice and assistance to just about anyone who asks(and sometimes to those who don't)

I love sailing and all things related because it transcends all the petty and trivial things that so easily divide and conquer the human spirit.

In short, ditch the OT forum altogether. Let those jerk offs find another site to spew their toxin.

Whew! That was more like a dime.....keep the change


----------



## dnf777 (Jun 23, 2007)

I've found that most forums have their political rooms that otherwise courteous, mature members use to behave like two-year olds, and check all their decency at the link. Now I have carefully chosen the forums I subscribe to and participate in, and totally avoid the political rooms. Ironically, the two political forums I belong to (dedicated political forums) the people seem to behave much better. Maybe they're the political "pros" who better understand the need for civility, when knowingly discussing hot topics in the first place? When in a sailing forum, I stick to sailing.

Let me join the chorus of those asking you to reconsider your exit. Maybe just curtail certain rooms?


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

You know other than differences in political opinions into which I'll lump stuff like Climate Change there really is not a hell of a lot of toxin in OffT. It can get pretty dreary and sludgy at times but with the occasional exception it really is not all that bad. 

Then again I am a bleeding heart liberal so what the 'eck would I know.

Hey Smack .... I forged your ID and I've been cashing your cheques for years. PT pays better than SFM I can tell you.


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

So TD, if you have been cashing Smacky's cheques, Who's been cashing mine?!?!?!?! Mr Winston?

I stay the hecko out of OT, not sure why it is here. ANother forum I mod in, has an OT per say, but still not politics, religion etc can be disCUSSed! If it gets brought/put into an area, delete box it goes! or modified if need bed.........

Marty


----------



## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Chef, go sailing. There is life beyond internet forums. Real life!

Looking forward to meeting you in person on the water...


----------



## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

see ya around the bay my fellow sailor, chef, and friend.

as for myself....I too will be at least taking a leave of absence...best to everyone


----------



## lancelot9898 (Dec 30, 2008)

Actually I don't see anything wrong with OT discussions and people posting ignorant comments. That can all be ignored. If you want to see trolls go to the Yahoo financial section under any stock. Those boards are almost useless and I commend the moderators here for keeping that type of suff under control. Hate to see T37Chef leave also, since he too provides good info.


----------



## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

Dave,

Huge loss for us, although I agree that the off-topic stuff should find another home. I hope to see you on the Bay.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

T37Chef said:


> see ya around the bay my fellow sailor, chef, and friend.
> 
> as for myself....I too will be at least taking a leave of absence...best to everyone


Oh great. Now who's going to cook? Heh-heh.

Have a good break T. You'll be missed.

PS - I've always gotten you two chefs mixed up.


----------



## jppp (Jul 13, 2008)

OT sections on forums are an invitation to troll. We have a rule at the bar in my restaurant, no politics, no religion. Have lost customers over the years because of this. Heck, Mets/Yankees is bad enough.


----------



## AirborneSF (Dec 14, 2010)

It is your call, but your input is very helpful, and we need it here! I have never met you, but you were one of the first to welcome me to this site, your named DAVE, and sail a C&C, don't go! Dave.


----------



## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

dave if you leave they win and are probably smirking right now,as MOST of the posts indicate you are well thought of and respected here,its your forum too!!!


----------



## padean (Jul 5, 2001)

Glad to see the thread and all the responses are still posted. Also glad you felt like expressing your views. 

Sailnet, like most internet forums, has changed dramatically over the years, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, but it is always changing. There is still a TON of great information, teaching, sharing of experiences and techniques that goes on on this an other forums, but I can certainly understand how you can get soured by a bad experience. Thanks for your input over the years.


----------



## padean (Jul 5, 2001)

By the way....

One indication of the gradual change in SailNet is obvious when you just look at the "Join Date" in the ID section. Most are within the last 3 years. Don't know what that means for us real old-timers....


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

padean said:


> By the way....
> 
> One indication of the gradual change in SailNet is obvious when you just look at the "Join Date" in the ID section. Most are within the last 3 years. Don't know what that means for us real old-timers....


It means newbs like being around you salts.


----------



## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Sorry to see you go man. I've enjoyed your posts.

I guess we all go through phases with forums. Once upon a time I found myself staying up in the wee hours of the night scrolling through the pages of this forum, laughing, excited and all the time thinking and learning more and more about sailing. 

Now I have been wandering around the net a bit, I really don't post here a great deal anymore, I come and read but basically I struggle to find threads that grab me, or if I do, then there seems to just be a shortage of good real discussion, the place feels a bit one dimensional.

If you have a boat/sailing question and want a answer then CF is still the place to go. Other than that I have found my time is generally better spent on the boat


----------



## UncleJim (Jul 27, 2009)

Chef2 and T37Chef, sorry to see you guys go. Clarissa and I really enjoyed meeting up with everyone and now...
Hope to meet up with you on the water in the future.

Jim


----------



## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

Like a change in tide, I've seen attitudes wane to and frough since the inception of Sailnet. While we all began as newbies my thoughts are that many who join the forum can barely claim membership into the boater's world as desktop sailors or at best dock rats. What puzzles me most is the level of "aggressive righteousness" many take or feel is their right as a member of the forum. One thing that I've observed is how the forum has meandered from it's original path; perhaps everything should be reset to "0". Sailnet has become not unlike CF in many ways with piranhas lurking in the shadows ready to tear flesh from many an unsuspecting poster. I too admit guilt in this arena, but then who here cannot call the kettle black.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

sea_hunter said:


> Like a change in tide, I've seen attitudes wane to and frough since the inception of Sailnet. While we all began as newbies my thoughts are that many who join the forum can barely claim membership into the boater's world as desktop sailors or at best dock rats. What puzzles me most is the level of "aggressive righteousness" many take or feel is their right as a member of the forum. One thing that I've observed is how the forum has meandered from it's original path; perhaps everything should be reset to "0". Sailnet has become not unlike CF in many ways with piranhas lurking in the shadows ready to tear flesh from many an unsuspecting poster. I too admit guilt in this arena, but then who here cannot call the kettle black.


So what would a complete reset look like? What was the original path?


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

chall03 said:


> I guess we all go through phases with forums. Once upon a time I found myself staying up in the wee hours of the night scrolling through the pages of this forum, laughing, excited and all the time thinking and learning more and more about sailing.
> 
> Now I have been wandering around the net a bit, I really don't post here a great deal anymore, I come and read but basically I struggle to find threads that grab me, or if I do, then there seems to just be a shortage of good real discussion, the place feels a bit one dimensional.


^^^ This--in spades.

I now find myself posting and answering the same questions in at least three separate forums. I know some people read all three, and I hate the fact that those people will see the same questions/answers/discussions up to three times, but that's what it's come to. For example: A recent question I asked, about crimpers, crimp terminals and wire, garnered useful, and different, responses at each of the three sites where I posted essentially the same question(s).

I really cannot say which of the three forums, this one and two others, I find the most useful, because the answer is that I find _each_ of them useful. But I can say this: No one of them, nor all of them together, are as enjoyable or useful as SN _used_ to be, before the multi-way split occurred. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.

tdw: I realize I still owe you an answer on this very subject. I apologize for not having produced it yet. I think part of the reason is I don't know as I care to relive old, futile battles. Part of it is undoubtedly imperfect memories. Part of it is I don't know what good the effort would produce. What's done is done. Nobody's mind will be changed. Humpty Dumpty cannot be put back together again.

Jim


----------



## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Fair winds, Dave & Donna. Very sorry to see you go. Maybe I'm too busy fixing up the boat and adding things, to notice changes in the forum. I see good people leave every year, not exactly sure why. I too used to stay up late reading, laughing and learning. What happened?

Regards,
Brad


----------



## Allen-deckard (Jul 26, 2011)

Well perform your own experiment.
Make a new account.
Ask a question like "is this a blue water boat" or maybe "full keel or fin keel"
See what your first responses might be.

Both are valid questions for someone trying to get familiarized with what direction they may think they want to start looking into.

Responses might include "do a quick search" or "oh not this subject again" either responses might very well put someone new off and just send them somewhere else. 

If someone has been on the forum for years then id have to say pretty much every topic imaginable has already been discussed over and over and in about every imaginable way and angle possible. Think about it most of the boats out there have been out there for what maybe 20 years Plus? 

So the choices are people can either be pleasant and rehash old topics again welcoming new members with pleasant responses making them feel welcome and not trying to tell them they are morons for asking tiara questions.

Or

The forum can go the path of not including new members in a friendly manner the only real topics are boating news, new boats, new equipment innovations, race events, or possibly a few other things.

Forums eventually fall quiet and people move on. And that's the same process for any forum on just about any topic you can imagine.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Re: Sailnet ain't how Sailnet Used to be.
Some people like Pre-Army Elvis.
Others like 60s Elvis.
Some like Fat Elvis.
But it's all Elvis.
Each era has it's positives and negatives, but to an Elvis fan, any Elvis is better than none at all.

To compare Sailnet to CF is to demonstrate that one is a Percy Faith fan. Or possibly Perry Como. But you certainly don't get Elvis.


----------



## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

smackdaddy:892952 said:


> So what would a complete reset look like? What was the original path?


If you take a look at the member's list by date (around 2000-2002) then posts you'll see what type of posts and threads prevailed. Many are similar, but the tone was much different. A complete reset would wipe everything clean except the member's list along with all posts, threads and ratings.


----------



## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

bljones:892970 said:


> Re: Sailnet ain't how Sailnet Used to be.
> Some people like Pre-Army Elvis.
> Others like 60s Elvis.
> Some like Fat Elvis.
> ...


Sail or power, Sailnet or CF, racer or cruiser; there's still boater's out there who know squat about boating.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

SEMIJim said:


> I really cannot say which of the three forums, this one and two others, I find the most useful, because the answer is that I find _each_ of them useful. But I can say this: No one of them, nor all of them together, are as enjoyable or useful as SN _used_ to be, before the multi-way split occurred. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.
> tdw: I realize I still owe you an answer on this very subject. I apologize for not having produced it yet. I think part of the reason is I don't know as I care to relive old, futile battles. Part of it is undoubtedly imperfect memories. Part of it is I don't know what good the effort would produce. What's done is done. Nobody's mind will be changed. Humpty Dumpty cannot be put back together again.Jim


Jim,

Now ain't that the truth. For mine Cruising Anarchy is and always has been a stand alone but what we here lost as people drifted away to A-S and to some extent CF did leave a hole and that is a shame. Myself I think in large part due to the fact that a bunch of us arrived here around 2006 and a certain cammeraderie (Hi George) developed. That one of those members (Giulietta) was such a character did not hurt in creating a certain something that is now gone, not just from here but as you said Jim, from the offshoots as well. Everyone was in some small way a loser. Reality is however that overall SailNet is as strong (or weak) as it ever was when it comes to participation.

As for getting back to me on the other matter, yes let it pass. What's over is over the fat lady has done her thing. No need to smack a sleeping dog. 

Andrew B


----------



## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Allen-deckard said:


> Well perform your own experiment.
> Make a new account.
> Ask a question like "is this a blue water boat" or maybe "full keel or fin keel"
> See what your first responses might be.
> ...


I'm with you. Internet forums are cyclical. If you've been here a long time (I kinda' have), either help or don't help, but please don't tell the newbie to search the site for his answer. If you happen to know there was a recent great thread on the topic the newbie is asking about, then pointing to that particular thread is helping, but basically telling them to pound sand the first time they have the temerity to ask a question you have seen before will eventually kill off the forum until its a dozen of the same people talking about topics that only interest them.

Face it, if we aren't here to provide real time input, they could close Sailnet right now and break it out into a big FAQ's section since nearly every sailing topic has be touched on.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

PalmettoSailor said:


> I'm with you. Internet forums are cyclical. If you've been here a long time (I kinda' have), either help or don't help, but please don't tell the newbie to search the site for his answer. If you happen to know there was a recent great thread on the topic the newbie is asking about, then pointing to that particular thread is helping, but basically telling them to pound sand the first time they have the temerity to ask a question you have seen before will eventually kill off the forum until its a dozen of the same people talking about topics that only interest them.
> 
> Face it, if we aren't here to provide real time input, they could close Sailnet right now and break it out into a big FAQ's section since nearly every sailing topic has be touched on.


Good heavens ... never tell anyone to search the site, that way lies madness. I have no idea why it is so but the search engine is rubbish. OTOH, if you throw your question at Google the appropriate SailNet thread will more than likely appear. Why this is so I have no idea.

Is this a Blue Water Boat or Full/Fin keel are for mine valid questions. Yes they have been hashed over a thousand times but heck havn't most questions ? I confess that "I've never sailed but which $5000 boat should I buy to circumnavigate" does get the juices flowing. Some questions do show a level of stupidity that seems to scream out for sarcastic slash and burn.

The other side of all that is a forum's role as a place to natter. How many times have you hashed and rehashed certain topics with your mates ? Cripes, if we only got to talk about something once we'd have all have run out of things to say years ago.

oh yes .... and Jones .... Percy Faith and Perry Como notwithstaning .... what of Mitch Miller ?


----------



## dnf777 (Jun 23, 2007)

tdw said:


> Is this a Blue Water Boat or Full/Fin keel are for mine valid questions. Yes they have been hashed over a thousand times but heck havn't most questions ? I confess that "I've never sailed but which $5000 boat should I buy to circumnavigate" does get the juices flowing. Some questions do show a level of stupidity that seems to scream out for sarcastic slash and burn.
> 
> oh yes .... and Jones .... Percy Faith and Perry Como notwithstaning .... what of Mitch Miller ?


Good heavens! What kind of moron would circumnavigate in a $5000 boat? You need at least a $10,000! I've sailed mostly in inland lakes, but that's my forum-qualified expert opinion! 

But seriously, Hope everyone had a safe 4th!


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

These are my general comments, and they have nothing to do with the OP's apparent reason for leaving:

I've moderated a forum oriented toward professional musicians for 15 years, and I can tell you that, like the tides, forums ebb and flow. Good people get fed up with newbies and take off, dejected that things just aren't like they used to be. Sometimes those good people come back after a cooling off period, sometimes new people come in who have a lot of experience to contribute and fill the void left by the old salts. It's just how forums work. There will always be newbies coming in asking the same questions, and it is important to welcome them warmly or the forum will die.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> We beleive that Sailnet is drifting away from their original message, thus the exodus of quite a few number of serious sailors some of who were our friends to other sailing forums. It may be that these administrative things have take a normal couirse of action, and it maybe the way that Sailnet has chosen to maintain or increase future memebership,, but in light of recent decisions by the controlling board of Sailnet we no longer wish to support by actively participating.
> 
> We are serious sailors and do not need a new social interaction site as it is becoming.-chef2sail


This is part my original post and were the reasons for my movement away from Sailnet except in PMs which some of my frends have already been receiving to their posts. These reasons may need clarification as others seem to be attributing differing motives. When a person leaves my organizatuion we always do an exit interview so as to learn an hopefully improve ourselves. Thats why I aired my criticisms. To almost all of the mods credi..they have replied to me.



> I've moderated a forum oriented toward professional musicians for 15 years, and I can tell you that, like the tides, forums ebb and flow. Good people get fed up with newbies and take off, dejected that things just aren't like they used to be. Sometimes those good people come back after a cooling off period, sometimes new people come in who have a lot of experience to contribute and fill the void left by the old salts. It's just how forums work. There will always be newbies coming in asking the same questions, and it is important to welcome them warmly or the forum will die.- Rhythm Doctor


Rick you are a friend of mine. We got together in person last week and rafted on your trip charter on your trip with your wife. This is not aimed at you, but what you wrote here.

I dont need a cooling off period- that would be a pandantic statement dismissive of my reasons.

I left because my goals as a sailor and Chesapeake sailor who beleives in giving back to 
to others and I felt that some at SN do not parallel my goals and beleifs anymore.

My decision was well thought out and not an act of anger.

My decision was not based on interactions in the off topic threads and I was not insulted by anyone in them more than the usual.

My decision was not the normal ebb and flow ( thats what people say when they dont want to look at themselves and blame things on the cosmos and nature and say its predetermined).

My decison was based on a change I percieved since I joined Sailnet from a serious sailors forum to a more social one ie chatrooms and such.

My decison was also one based on an in-person ( not online) interaction and disrespect by someone who is an appinted member of the Sailnet leadership who demonstarted to me that they put their own importance and opinions before others.

In all to dismiss my leaving as "like the tides" is grossly overlooking the reason and therefore may repeat itself through others. And yes that may not seem important to you overall as your numbers show you are increasing, but I prefer quality over quantity and dont use quantity as a measure.

Many of you have PM me, and I thank you for your kind words and many have already seen me at Cruisers Forum getting involved with the same vigor I was involved here. My wife and I will never compromise our ideals of respect and goal of paying it forward in the sailing organizations we choose to join. We will continue to sponsor a Rondevous for Chesapeake sailors at the Matyland Yacht Club in early June to continue the network we have helped bring together and want to continue. My choosing to post elsewhere does not negate the many in person friendships and bonds we have made.

As is the usual case some may now take shots at what I have said. When you do ask...is this respect? and what you want a new poster at SN to see how you treat someone?


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Hey chef - welcome to SN!

Please click on the link in Sailingdog's signature to get the most out of your experience here.

Heh-heh.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Dave, I value your friendship. And I made it explicitly clear in my message that my comments were not directed at you. My comments were directed at the others whose stated reasons for drifting away were different from yours.

You (and others) still have a right to disagree with those comments, and I'll respect your opinions as I always have.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Dave,
Just to be clear, any comments I made re the comings and goings of SailNet membership were not related to you and/or your original post. 
Like so many threads this has wandered off its original track, my comments were in light of later postings.
Regards
Andrew B


----------



## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

there was sailnet before you and there is sailnet after you.

I'll try to carry on w/out your imput

don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'


----------



## cupper3 (Jun 30, 2010)

joethecobbler said:


> there was sailnet before you and there is sailnet after you.
> 
> I'll try to carry on w/out your imput
> 
> don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'


A necessary comment? Not sure how much it adds to a real discussion.


----------



## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Why is it the most lively and interesting threads on Sailnet are always those bashing Sailnet?? 

You got to admit you would never find this kind of good old fashioned brewhaha at CF, it would be obliterated from the screen seconds after someone dared to type something even slightly impolite.


----------



## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

Necessary ? probably not necessary. I mean , is any of this necessary?
the guy gets on here and announces he's leaving the forum, blah blah blah.... like he's nixon stepping down from the oval office or something and then there is a dozen people lamenting his departure. 
three pages later , he's back with more comments and I just thought I'd post my take on his leaving. And that is basically -so what, see ya' ,later days,adios,close the door on your way out. 
If I decide not to participate online any longer for whatever reason I'll do so, I won't send up a flare or take out an ad . 
I didn't solicit his presence here and can't specifically remember anything particularly unique or overtly compelling about the poster. 
I kinda get the feeling that he was saying he was above all the drivel here on the board and it was beneath him. Or that he felt that he was not getting the warm fuzzy from it any longer. Well, so be it. 
Hoist yer anchor and off you go. no skin here.

is any of this necessary? I just can't sleep right now and am bored so I'm reading SN and other intenet junk.
don't take it too seriously , it's just what it is.


----------



## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

joethecobbler said:


> I just can't sleep right now and am bored so I'm reading SN and other intenet junk.
> don't take it too seriously , it's just what it is.


Joe go to bed. Think about deleting this last post before you do. This one WAS unnecessary.



joethecobbler said:


> I didn't solicit his presence here and can't specifically remember anything particularly unique or overtly compelling about the poster.





joethecobbler said:


> .......and then there is a dozen people lamenting his departure.


Ok so he didn't rock your world.

However maybe the fact that there is a dozen or so people lamenting his departure says that clearly he has formed friendships on here, and made a contribution(he did also some organise SN get togethers as he states).

Either way what he feels is what he feels, this is HIS thread, you are very free to ignore it completely and feel great apathy for his departure, but posting in someone's goodbye thread how little you care is kind of unnecessary.

Think about it, and i hope you conclude that the gentlemanly thing to do might be to delete your response. If it seems like a great idea to post it in the morning then re post it then 

( If your post goes I will get rid of this one as well)


----------



## bjung (Apr 8, 2009)

joethecobbler said:


> Necessary ? probably not necessary. I mean , is any of this necessary?
> the guy gets on here and announces he's leaving the forum, blah blah blah.... like he's nixon stepping down from the oval office or something and then there is a dozen people lamenting his departure.
> three pages later , he's back with more comments and I just thought I'd post my take on his leaving. And that is basically -so what, see ya' ,later days,adios,close the door on your way out.
> If I decide not to participate online any longer for whatever reason I'll do so, I won't send up a flare or take out an ad .
> ...


Totally unnecessary, and actually demonstrates quite well the lack of respect that Chef2sail was refferring to. 
So, joethecobbler, are you stepping up to organize the next Chessie Rendezvous??


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

joethecobbler said:


> <snip>and then there is a dozen people lamenting his departure.
> <snip> I didn't solicit his presence here and can't specifically remember anything particularly unique or overtly compelling about the poster.
> <snip>


Joe,

He's done more for the forum and it's members than you have. What knowledge and experience have you shared? 400 posts in 5 years. Yeah, lots of knowledge and experience there.

Have you organized _years_ of "in-real-life" social gatherings for sailors, like he has? Have you opened your home to other sailors, like he (repeatedly) has?

Thought not.

Switch to decaf, and get some sleep.


----------



## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

joethecobbler said:


> there was sailnet before you and there is sailnet after you.
> 
> I'll try to carry on w/out your imput
> 
> don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'


joe!!!your a piece of work,if you can't say something positive then keep your thoughts to your self!!!


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

joethecobbler said:


> Necessary ? probably not necessary. I mean , is any of this necessary?
> the guy gets on here and announces he's leaving the forum, blah blah blah.... like he's nixon stepping down from the oval office or something and then there is a dozen people lamenting his departure.
> three pages later , he's back with more comments and I just thought I'd post my take on his leaving. And that is basically -so what, see ya' ,later days,adios,close the door on your way out.
> If I decide not to participate online any longer for whatever reason I'll do so, I won't send up a flare or take out an ad .
> ...


I like chef. And I'm sorry to see him go.

But I also have no problem with joe's post. It's his opinion.

I've never been a fan of departure announcements either. And I thought this part of chef's OP was a little unnecessary...



chef2sail said:


> We beleive that Sailnet is drifting away from their original message, thus the exodus of quite a few number of *serious sailors* ...
> 
> We are *serious sailors* and do not need a new social interaction site as it is becoming.


Dave probably meant nothing by it - but it can certainly be read as joe read it.

So, again, I have no problem with joe's post and can see where he's coming from.

On the other hand, again, I like chef. And I'm sorry to see him go.


----------



## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

What the hell are you all talking about?

Dude, if you wanna play in the sandbox, come on in and play nice. If you wanna ***** about the kids in the sandbox, you better move a little further away before somebody kicks your ass for it. 

Didn't you go all goodbye cruel world a week ago? Now you're back to "clarify" with more bald righteousness. Come on.

IMO, this ain't nothing but an ego trip. No substance, no specifics, just I'm cool (serious sailorman) and the new kids aren't (socialites). Boohoo. Take it somewhere else. Come back when you are ready to play nice.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

I think SailNet is one of the big three Internet forums, at least MY big three. Losing a capable and competent contributor for any reason should result in a post-mortem among the moderators. There is a critical mass of truly knowledgeable AND active members that must be maintained. There has been work done on determining the necessary number of people who have subject-area expertise and are widely (not necessarily universally) respected to sustain a community. The threshold turns out to be somewhere around the square root of the population (3 of 10, 10 of 100, 200 of 40000). Lose too much of the critical mass and SailNet will indeed devolve into a fitless amalgam of OT and purely social postings with no meaningful content. That has happened elsewhere.



tdw said:


> Good heavens ... never tell anyone to search the site, that way lies madness. I have no idea why it is so but the search engine is rubbish. OTOH, if you throw your question at Google the appropriate SailNet thread will more than likely appear.


Other sites have ripped the vBulletin search functions out completely and replaced it with custom Google code. It isn't hard. I've done it in phpBB. This ground has been plowed elsewhere. It's unfortunate that SailNet hasn't followed suit.



RhythmDoctor said:


> Good people get fed up with newbies and take off, dejected that things just aren't like they used to be.


My experience differs. The general population does indeed ebb and flow. The active participants with the knowledge and ability to convey it to others are different. It usually takes some significant event to cause one of those members to move on. Such a departure should result in some introspection and consideration of systemic changes. I believe many of those important departures are a result of moderation policies, inconsistency, or action.



chef2sail said:


> I left because my goals as a sailor and Chesapeake sailor who beleives in giving back to others and I felt that some at SN do not parallel my goals and beleifs anymore.


That isn't an ebb and flow statement.

Clearly not everyone will agree with me, but Dave's departure will have a huge impact on the value of the Chesapeake Bay forum on SailNet. There are not many who sail as much as Donna and he do, go to as wide a range of destinations over such a broad area, actually remembers important elements, and shares them so cogently with others. We have teased Dave about his creative spelling but there is no doubt as to the value of his contributions.

While SN "General Discussions" is a bigger pond than "Chesapeake Bay" Dave's contributions there have been of similar value.

For those who would shrug and say it matters not, you are looking at a shroud and saying a few frayed wires are not important without regard to the loss of strength those wires represent.


----------



## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

SVA -
What you are missing is that Chef didn't engage in a discussion of how to make SN better or how to improve the bay gatherings. He sent a goodbye note stating his conclusions regarding his claimed virtues and the shortcomings he perceives in this community. Fine. Goodbye. (commonly referred to as a GBCW post in other internet forums and commonly met with a chorus DLTDHYITAOTWO). Chef may have contributed more than that here - but his "departure" was of exactly that character (except maybe that he continues to complain in PM's to a host of people).

Now, if you want to have a discussion of how to make SN stronger, that's great. Always love to hear your ideas (even if I tease you about them at times). But that is a different discussion. This thread is a monument to something ugly. Let it die. If Chef wants to come back with a good attitude to help make a better SN - wonderful. Until then, I hope he goes away and the "how do we make SN better" discussion happens in a different more positive context.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

is curiously silent on this issue


----------



## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

IN my opinion some sailnet members are big on bashing and small on offering advise or any possible help to other members,a controversial post always brings gobs of responses while a sencere post asking for info quickly drys on the vine,I suppose bashing is more intertaining and requires less actual knowlege,Denise I think hes done!


----------



## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

I no longer support goodbye threads... What's the point, you won't be here to reply anyway... Wait, what???


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

_could use some new threads.. shoes, too..._


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

blowinstink said:


> What you are missing is that Chef didn't engage in a discussion of how to make SN better or how to improve the bay gatherings.


Why should he? If Dave decided to leave who could argue he is responsible for leading a kumbaya discussion on bettering SailNet. My point is that the community in general and moderators in particular should respond to the loss of a substantial contributing member with some introspection.

I don't have access to the moderator forum and it's possible they do that, but I have seen no indication of that happening.

There are three classes of conclusion I can think of:
1. More trouble than s/he is worth. Move on, no changes. I can think of at least one example of this category in the last few years.
2. External events drove this and no change is necessary.
3. Something should change because this is a symptom of some problem we can address. Implement change.



blowinstink said:


> Now, if you want to have a discussion of how to make SN stronger, that's great. Always love to hear your ideas (even if I tease you about them at times). But that is a different discussion.


Perhaps it is. Perhaps mods, admin, and SailNet execs are having that discussion. I have not seen any sign of it in the past and really don't expect much now. We could have a discussion among the general membership, but without buy-in from decision makers (one or more of these guys: SailNet Meet The Crew ) it's a purely masturbatory activity.

We've been focusing on Dave here, but Shawn has wandered away also. While there may have been one causal event we lost two substantive contributors. Substantive doesn't mean post counts; anyone can post. It's about substance. Substance draws more substance. The absence of substance drives substance away.



deniseO30 said:


> _could use some new threads.. shoes, too..._


We could. Apparently there is a new scale etchant at West Marine for heat exchangers.


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

deniseO30 said:


> _could use some new threads.. shoes, too..._


How about a bikini?


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Meh. The way I see it, if someone wants something to change - just have the stones to come out and say exactly what it is. This beating around the bush while trying to set up some hierarchy of posters is goofy - and seriously passive-aggressive. Every single poster has something to contribute. Even Painkiller.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I don't think it serves any purpose to go into detail but please rest assured we (the mods i.e. ) did all we could to try and convince Dave not to go and we all regret he chose to do so. Reality is it was a conflict that for all intents and purposes simply could not be satisfactorily resolved.

As to whether or not anyone should go down the "I'm out of here highway" thats just one of topics that people will have differing opinions on. On the one hand its good to know when someone is unhappy and chooses to leave,on the other it could be seen as grandstanding. Overall I fall down on the side of a swansong, particularly when it involves a long time member but that's mere opinion. Better I think than simply disappearing into the ether leaving behind a trail of "whateverhappenedto" posts. 

As for the DLTDHYOTWO crowd ... hey free expression and all that though methinks Joe went overboard in his condemnation. You know in his OP, Dave posited the possibility that this thread would be chopped. Well its still here and everyone has had the chance to have their say. When all is said and done, there is not much wrong with that.


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

First of all, I would like to make it clear that whether or not you agree with Chef's decision to publically say his piece and leave, SailNet forum rules make it explicitly clear that personal attacks will not be tolerated. But even if this were not a forum rule, and while civil discourse is encouraged, language which is intended to be inflamatory, hurtful or personally challenging is not acceptable. Period.

I would like to address Dave (SVAuspicious) comments because I believe that they are valid concerns.



SVAuspicious said:


> My point is that the community in general and moderators in particular should respond to the loss of a substantial contributing member with some introspection.
> 
> I don't have access to the moderator forum and it's possible they do that, but I have seen no indication of that happening.
> 
> ...


 While we do not discuss the specifics of exchanges between individual members and the moderators, I feel that I can say that Dave (Chef) contacted each of the moderators individually with his concerns. Each of the moderators has also responded to him individually. I also believe that each of the then active moderators also responded publically making it clear that we wished that Dave would reconsider and remain an active member.

Dave (Chef) expressed his concerns and provided some constructive input before posting his public comments. They moderators considered his comments individually and then they were discussed at length by the active group of Moderators. In that regard I can only say that we as moderators did respond to the loss of a substantial contributing member and considered his concerns with serious introspection.

We never considered Dave, (Chef) or Shawn for that matter ,to be more trouble than they are worth. I met both at SailNet events several years ago and at the most recent event. I personnally consider both to have been generous contributers and active members of sailNet, as well as people I have simply enjoyed knowing.

In terms of the other two courses of action, some of Dave's (Chef) suggested concerns and implied remedies were and are still being considered, some were items which we as moderators do not really have control of.

Dave's (Chef) most serious and singular expressed cause for leaving was considered fully, but after due consideration was not something that the moderators were in agreement with the need to change. The critical elements his concern were reviewed and discussed at length. They were never taken lightly. These critiques brought a heightened awareness to the moderator group, and hopefully will result in a positive behavior pattern on our part. Where we agreed with Dave(Chef) or where there are actions that we agree should be taken, actions will be advocated and hopefully implimented.

Lastly, I completely agree with the other Dave (SVAuspicious) "Substantive doesn't mean post counts; anyone can post. It's about substance. Substance draws more substance. The absence of substance drives substance away."

In that regard, I always hate to see any long term member who was an active contributer leave this site. It is the members who make this site what it is. And so, I and my fellow moderators would very much welcome Dave (Chef) and Shawn back should they ever see fit to return.

Respectfully,
Jeff


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Jeff - thanks for the clarification. What I meant by my post above is that unless there is real specificity in a departure post, people start guessing and applying motives and scenarios that may not be there. Then, as you see above, it starts to become an "us vs. them" kind of direction - which is never good.

With your explanation - hopefully it's done.


----------



## LarryandSusanMacDonald (Apr 3, 2005)

:chaser

So Long, T37Chef. Best to ya!


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

All right everyone. Let's be sure to keep the various Daves straight. *grin*

Jeff_H thanks for your thoughtful response.



Jeff_H said:


> While we do not discuss the specifics of exchanges between individual members and the moderators, I feel that I can say that Dave (Chef) contacted each of the moderators individually with his concerns.


That's as it should be. We, the greater population of SailNet, don't need the details. The fact of discussion and consideration is sufficient. Thanks for providing that insight.



Jeff_H said:


> In terms of the other two courses of action, some of Dave's (Chef) suggested concerns and implied remedies were and are still being considered, some were items which we as moderators do not really have control of.


The latter point is of interest. Just how engaged are SailNet execs in the forum? In my head, if the mods don't have control of something there should be an escalation mechanism that will promptly respond. Without both things (escalation and timeliness) authority and responsibility should be delegated.



Jeff_H said:


> Dave's (Chef) most serious and singular expressed cause for leaving was considered fully, but after due consideration was not something that the moderators were in agreement with the need to change.


That must have been an interesting discussion. *grin*

Like any personnel management issue, particularly in a volunteer-driven enterprise (and SailNet members that truly contribute are the ultimate volunteers), this has surely been time-consuming and somewhat distasteful for the moderators and for Jeff J.

If I was King of the World we'd find a solution that brought Dave and Shawn back without breaking anything else. I'm not, so we all lose. *grin*


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

SVAuspicious said:


> My point is that the community in general and moderators in particular should respond to the loss of a substantial contributing member with some introspection.
> 
> I don't have access to the moderator forum and it's possible they do that, but I have seen no indication of that happening.
> 
> ...


Wow...
This really does have the potential to get ugly.
Correct me if I am misreading this post, but are you saying the rest of us have to change because two people don't post much here any more?

Do we really want to have a discussion about who determines what and who is substantive and whose contributions are more valuable than others?

Maybe, being the blunt and occasionally tactless individual that I am, I am missing some sort of subtle nuance here, so spell it out for me- how is it my or any other member's fault that someone decides to pull the pin on posting, because they view themselves as more "serious" than us, or simply don't like another member or moderator?

That does bring up the question- what does it take to join the "serious"sailor club, and who determines eligibility? Is there hazing? T-shirts?


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

bljones said:


> Wow...
> This really does have the potential to get ugly.
> Correct me if I am misreading this post, but are you saying the rest of us have to change because two people don't post much here any more?
> 
> ...


Bingo.

Reminds me a lot of the FightClub days. Don't worry though, bl, you (we) are the farthest thing from a "serious sailor" that there is. Heh-heh.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

bljones said:


> Correct me if I am misreading this post, but are you saying the rest of us have to change because two people don't post much here any more?


Well I don't own the "list" of the core contributors. There is no "list." It is however a recognized sociological reality of communities.

I have bad news for you Brian. I think you are on the list. *grin* You ARE a substantive contributor as far as I'm concerned. Mostly <-- this is a joke - you may now return to your previously scheduled programming.

My point isn't about determining who is contributing or maintaining a list. My point is that moderators should take a look at the context of a member who is/probably is/may be a core contributor departing and deciding if any change in policies, procedures, or implementation (or staffing) is an appropriate response to avoid future unfortunate departures.

Most successful companies do this. It's part of their retention strategy.

I fully expect you to continue to be the edgy, challenging commentator I perceive you to be. Your posts may not always be agreeable to me but they often make me think. There is value in that. Heck, if everyone agreed with _me_ how would I learn anything?



bljones said:


> Maybe, being the blunt and occasionally tactless individual that I am, I am missing some sort of subtle nuance here, so spell it out for me- how is it my or any other member's fault that someone decides to pull the pin on posting, because they view themselves as more "serious" than us, or simply don't like another member or moderator?


It isn't about fault or finger-pointing. It's about improving - do better - or at least not spiraling into obscurity.



bljones said:


> That does bring up the question- what does it take to join the "serious"sailor club, and who determines eligibility? Is there hazing? T-shirts?


Oh man - the mind reels. So many responses from Sailing Anarchy come to mind (H--- B------) but the SN censor would take all the fun out of them.

Okay - here's some hazing. You show up at my boat with beer and ice. You hoist the sails. We do tacking drills - you grind, I steer - with my foot. After 50 tacks or when I get bored steaks are on me.

Good enough?


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

sounds like frivolous useless sailing to nowhere...with food.
Is that what you consider "serious" on the Chesapeake?
Oh right, two disappearing members with chef in their tag and a guy with a restaurant list in his sig sail there... of course it is!


See, I told you this could get ugly.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

smackdaddy said:


> Bingo.
> 
> Reminds me a lot of the FightClub days. Don't worry though, bl, you (we) are the farthest thing from a "serious sailor" that there is. Heh-heh.


Speak for yourself, dude- I sail in a shallow bay and post about food- that qualifies as serious.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

bljones said:


> sounds like frivolous useless sailing to nowhere...with food.
> Is that what you consider "serious" on the Chesapeake?
> Oh right, two disappearing members with chef in their tag and a guy with a restaurant list in his sig sail there... of course it is!


I like food. Sue me. Oh wait - that's on THIS side of the border.

Can't chef's and foodies sail too? We recently had a great SailNet rendezvous on the Chesapeake with people sailing in from all over the Bay. How is that not serious sailing?

I'm going to be up in Rochester and Torento next week. Where are you? First round is on me.


----------



## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

The implication here seems to be that one is only a 'serious sailor' and thereby a worthy contributor if you've done 1000's of miles across some deep ugly bumpy bits of water.

If you daysail a modest boat every weekend on your local waterway, and enjoy it what is wrong with that? 
Or if you race with a local club then how is that not sailing??

Surely this is the kind of sailing most people are actually doing for most of their life and therefore the members doing that probably have the most to add here.

How many circumnavigators/long distance cruisers do we actually have here?? I can think of only a handful. How many other members right now are seriously considering it?? Only another handful??? 

As for food, damn the stuff is good. 

More threads about food and less threads about anchors. Thats my 2 cents for the Sailnet Moderators forward-looking visionary review committee  

More threads about hamburgers, tacos, roasts in boat ovens, good wine and rum.
Hey isn't it the middle of summer over there???? Get out there and do some non-serious sailing


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

SVAuspicious said:


> I like food. Sue me. Oh wait - that's on THIS side of the border.
> 
> Can't chef's and foodies sail too? We recently had a great SailNet rendezvous on the Chesapeake with people sailing in from all over the Bay. How is that not serious sailing?
> 
> I'm going to be up in Rochester and Torento next week. Where are you? First round is on me.


Glad you still have a sense of humour. the Dock is about an hour and a half outside of Toronto. c'mon down and we'll show you how it's done in northern freshwater.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

bljones said:


> Glad you still have a sense of humour. the Dock is about an hour and a half outside of Toronto. c'mon down and we'll show you how it's done in northern freshwater.


Doing it in one of the great lakes ? Breed 'em tough in your neck of the woods Jones.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Only two burners, no shore power or water, under 25', sailing the hell out of april -october. I DARE you Chessy big boat serious sailing air conditioning-and-refrigeration and three- digit price tag-knife owning, coffee snobbing, restaurant listing, white wine and china plate sailors to come roll with us. We're ghetto, and we like it like that.


----------



## dnf777 (Jun 23, 2007)

RhythmDoctor said:


> Sometimes those good people come back after a cooling off period, sometimes new people come in who have a lot of experience to contribute and fill the void left by the old salts. It's just how forums work. There will always be newbies coming in asking the same questions, and it is important to welcome them warmly or the forum will die.


With several other forums I'm involved with, I've also noticed that some people contribute MORE (as measured by text lines) after they choose to leave, than before! ;-)

I've found this forum to be quite accomodating and friendly actually, so long as you don't follow any thread past the 4th or 5th page! That is also true on many other forums as well.

Well, I hope the OP decides to stick around in any case. I've enjoyed their posts very much.


----------



## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

all i'm saying is as a human being is at least you can say and post like as if you where talking face to face,if your inclined to be rude an obnoxious atleast be man[or women] enough to do that where people have a chance to respond personally not as just someone who likes to run off at the mout6h with no possibility of consenquences,arm chair sailors my ass. ken owens maryville tenn.


----------



## painkiller (Dec 20, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> Meh. The way I see it, if someone wants something to change - just have the stones to come out and say exactly what it is. This beating around the bush while trying to set up some hierarchy of posters is goofy - and seriously passive-aggressive. Every single poster has something to contribute. Even Painkiller.


I learned how to sail from reading SailNet! Here's a pic of me anchoring out for the first time:










I wet the rail even under anchor. Not even Smack can say that.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

painkiller said:


> I learned how to sail from reading SailNet! Here's a pic of me anchoring out for the first time:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You win.

Now I have have to start a GBCW thread.


----------



## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

painkiller said:


> I learned how to sail from reading SailNet! Here's a pic of me anchoring out for the first time:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sailnet taught me exactly what kind of boat I will need for bluewater cruising.










And that the preferred cruising grounds for most self proclaimed internet sailing experts is


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

bljones said:


> Glad you still have a sense of humour. the Dock is about an hour and a half outside of Toronto. c'mon down and we'll show you how it's done in northern freshwater.


Cool beans. Janet set up our itinerary and I'm a little fuzzy on the details. I know there is a lake in there somewhere. Perhaps the same one? I'll get the details from her and send you a PM. In the meantime I'll pack my sailing gloves to protect my sensitive Chesapeake hands. *grin*



bljones said:


> Only two burners, no shore power or water, under 25', sailing the hell out of april -october. I DARE you Chessy big boat serious sailing air conditioning-and-refrigeration and three- digit price tag-knife owning, coffee snobbing, restaurant listing, white wine and china plate sailors to come roll with us. We're ghetto, and we like it like that.


Two burners, oven, shore-power isn't relevant when out sailing, 40', sail the bottom paint off year round so I have a heater (less snow, more freezing rain), aircon, fridge, freezer, decent knives not three-digit priced. Not too picky about coffee. Do like food. Chardonnay. Plastic plates with rubber non-skid rings. Oh - you left out the grill on the pushpit.

One can sail hard and still not be camping.

You left out sails: 135 & 100 jibs, staysail, spinnaker, conventional full-batten main with three reefs. The big main is an option from my builder but I'm the only person I know of to actually buy one instead of an in-mast furler.

A day is 24 hours so when I say a destination is a day away it's -- well -- a day away. Annapolis to Rhode Island is 2-1/2 days. Annapolis to Abaco is about 5 days. Messing about in boats is always fun, but I particularly like GOING somewhere.

A nice roast pork loin with roasted veg and rice is lovely. Pumping it out of the galley for crew of four when the main has two reefs in is serious sailing. *grin* Three reefs and the staysail and I'll probably pull a frozen (homemade) lasagna out of the freezer for dinner.

In three decades of racing I've ground through tacking duels so long the foredeck crew got called back to relieve the grinders. I've done spinnaker peels in the middle of the night, and the odd shrimp. I prefer ocean sailing where the next tack is on - oh say Tuesday. I've done lovely drifty day sails inshore with good friends and a cooler full of beer for company. To my mind ALL those things are or can be serious sailing. Serious is an attitude.

Perhaps there are more serious sailors here than Dave/chef2sail thought. We just need to get them to speak up. If Dave's parting shot makes that happen there will be a silver lining in the dark cloud of his departure.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

And that the preferred cruising grounds for most self proclaimed internet sailing experts is   








[/QUOTE]

I have GOT to find a picture of the armchairs on my boat.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

SVAuspicious said:


> Perhaps there are more serious sailors here than Dave/chef2sail thought. We just need to get them to speak up. If Dave's parting shot makes that happen there will be a silver lining in the dark cloud of his departure.


First, you need to define what exactly you guys mean by "serious sailors".

(Someone will need to quote me here so Ausp can see it. I think I'm on his ignore list. Obviously not "serious" enough.)


----------



## gershel (Feb 4, 2001)

WOW! What a bunch of crap about a bunch of crap.
Making a big announcement that you're leaving, sounds like you're just looking for more attention. 
WHO CARES!!
Marc


----------



## lapworth (Dec 19, 2008)

smackdaddy said:


> "serious sailors".


Sounds like a new thread. My portfolio Solo sail,Kayak, off shore sailing and fishing, Beer can races, water skiing, scuba, wind surf, Trophy fishing,crabbing but sorry I do not take any of it serious unless a life is on the line. Sorry to here the chefs are leaving, but if you guys are really out of here why don't you call these a-holes out. Who cares you are already gone.


----------



## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

smackdaddy said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by SVAuspicious
> Perhaps there are more serious sailors here than Dave/chef2sail thought. We just need to get them to speak up. If Dave's parting shot makes that happen there will be a silver lining in the dark cloud of his departure.
> 
> ...


There. I feel like Switzerland . . ..


----------



## painkiller (Dec 20, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> You win.
> 
> Now I have have to start a GBCW thread.


Thanks for not pointing out my use of "under anchor". I wasn't even drinking.


----------



## sailordave (Jun 26, 2001)

smackdaddy said:


> First, you need to define what exactly you guys mean by "serious sailors".
> 
> (Someone will need to quote me here so Ausp can see it. I think I'm on his ignore list. Obviously not "serious" enough.)


Well, as SVA Dave put it, Sailing is an attitude. 
Sailing in all kinds of weather is SERIOUS. Sailing only when it's not too hot, not to cold, at least 9 knots of wind, but not more than 14. Sunny but some clouds... NOT SERIOUS. (and yes, I know some who fit this category)

Sailing your Laser every Sunday from Thanksgiving through March is Serious.

Racing to Bermuda is (usually, depending on the boat) serious.

Sitting at the dock, working on the boat w/ your sailing buddy, then kicking back enjoying a cold beverage of your choice just b/c you like hanging out at the dock can be serious as long as you'd rather be actually sailing but choose not to that day.

Knowing how to tie 8 different knots (and 3 different bends) depending on the load, knowing where the articulated 5/8" widget is in your tool box and how to use it is serious.

But what do I know, I've been a member for more than 10 years and don't even have 350 posts; sheesh, the nerve of me thinking I know something about sailing. Oh yeah, I've actually been spending time sailing. Even living 90 miles from the Bay.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Continuous learning is serious. I can point to any number of things on my boat and tell you why they are as they are and who I learned it from. 

I think there are a number of people who can point to things on their boat and tell you why they are as they are and that they learned those things from me (some even remember who I learned it from!). 

On delivery we end up spending a lot of time sharing stories and lessons learned and comparing responses. 

I can tell you who I want with me on the boat when a jib halyard chafes through in the middle of the night. Some of them are young bucks (Hi Nick!) and some are older guys like me with bad backs and woobly knees. Some of us old guys can push through and beat the bucks to the foredeck! *grin* Those are serious sailors.

More seriously (pun intended) I've had lovely discussions about everything from car position and head twist to halyard tension and the relative benefit of traveler and mainsheet on light air days. Those are serious sailors.

Same for the guy that may not be much of a sail trimmer but by golly he can rebuild a diesel with two bobby pins and a roll of duct tape. Sometimes it's the difference between "I need" and "what do we have?" The serious sailors are the ones that get back to the dock and understand what short cuts have to come out to fix something correctly for the long haul.

Let's see, who else? The guy with a kid in a wheelchair who loads up the family on a small Hunter and goes sailing a couple times a month with the whole family. The couple that lug a sailing dinghy in from many miles away and sail the creek every single weekend. The lady that single-hands her 34 out for the weekend every weekend in season. The guy with an older Pearson working really hard to get out of the back of the fleet. The couple with a Jeanneau that spends lots of evenings watching sunsets from their boat and heads out for evening jaunts and have their sails up before the end of the fairway. Those who share what they know and listen to others. The industry guys that come home from a day working on boat and spend a couple of hours helping people for free. The sometimes grumpy delivery skipper that shares his knowledge and points people toward characteristics rather than brands. The CLOD who gets up early every morning to work the radio net for cruising sailors. The couple that sweep the projects into boxes so they can go sailing together. They guy that keeps track of people posting about sailing nearby to meet up and share. The single Dad whose 6-year-old daughter steers while he trims.

The ones more interested in being "right" than contributing? Not so much.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

rename this thread as "fight club for serious sailors" LOL


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Wellll... lessee...



sailordave said:


> Well, as SVA Dave put it, Sailing is an attitude.
> Sailing in all kinds of weather is SERIOUS. Sailing only when it's not too hot, not to cold, at least 9 knots of wind, but not more than 14. Sunny but some clouds... NOT SERIOUS. (and yes, I know some who fit this category)


You know another. Won't _pleasure_ sail unless it's between, oh, about 15 and 30C, say... 7-15 kts. Any colder or hotter than that: Too uncomfortable. Any less wind and it's not sailing, it's drifting. Any more wind and our short-handed crew is overpowered, even with a #3 and a reef.

When there's a race on, and esp. if we have crew, those numbers can be stretched. (We once raced in 30 kts, gusting to 35. It was only _supposed_ to be 25, gusting to 30.) If we ever get to cruising, I guess we'll have to sail when we have to sail, almost regardless of weather, won't we?

Then there's been my vacation time the last week... *sigh* Every. Flippin'. Day, save last Saturday: 35C or higher, sky-high humidity, little air--and what air there's been has been fluky, and Random Severe Storms--except when they weren't random.

I guess we're not serious sailors. We didn't even _consider_ it. Well... okay, we considered it a couple times. Then looked at each other and decided living to see another day was better.



sailordave said:


> Sitting at the dock, working on the boat w/ your sailing buddy, then kicking back enjoying a cold beverage of your choice just b/c you like hanging out at the dock can be serious as long as you'd rather be actually sailing but choose not to that day.


I just enjoy working on the boat. I enjoy improving her. TBH: I think I enjoy working on her more than pleasure sailing. Between racing and working on her...? Hmmm... About a wash, I guess... mainly because my labours always produce positive results, my racing, not so much 



sailordave said:


> Knowing how to tie 8 different knots (and 3 different bends) depending on the load, knowing where the articulated 5/8" widget is in your tool box and how to use it is serious.


Do I know eight knots and three different bends...? Hmmm...
Bowline, clove hitch, half-hitch, reef, round turn and two half-hitches, stopper, buntline hitch... damn, only seven . Used to know the rolling hitch, but forgot it. (Gonna go re-learn that one right now, then keep practicing it until it's burned in.) Bends... Fisherman's Bend, Anchor Bend, Zepplin Bend... wossname bend... er... sheet bend (picks up a piece of rope...), yeah, sheet bend!

Hey, I can splice double-braid and I'll next be splicing three-strand. I've had Real Sailors complement my whipping work and I recently learned how to reeve. I even have a ditty bag. Do I get Real Sailor Points for those?

Don't Real Sailors also have to know how to read a chart; know at _least_ a couple kinds of navigation that don't involve a GPS; know how to read the wind, clouds and water; and know how to set their sails by their shape, the wind on their face and the feel of the helm? Doesn't a Real Sailor needs to know how to recover a MOB, treat a hypothermia victim and back down on an anchor to set it?

Reading SailNet, I learned a Real Sailor also has to know how to mount a grill on the rail...

Seriously: I don't do enough sailing in enough different conditions, or spend enough time on any sailboat, to count myself a "real sailor." I'm more a "weekend warrior," and not even consistently that. But here's the difference between me and perhaps some other not-real-sailors: I have respect for those who I believe _are_ real sailors, and do not lightly challenge them.

I guess I was brought up in a different time and place. I was taught to respect my betters. In sailing, I figure that's just about any sailor 

Jim


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

deniseO30 said:


> rename this thread as "fight club for serious sailors" LOL


No kidding. At least here the bar is set reeeeaaaaallllllly low.

If this is really the standard, there are far, far, far more "serious sailors" around here than these handful of overly-pious dudes seem to think...including yours truly.

Here - how's this for prescient (6 years ago)? From the most hallowed thread in all of forumdum: Fight Club for Sailors



Surfesq said:


> Here is the Scope of this Thread:
> 
> 1. If your boat sits in the slip for more than 28 days a month. You don't sail.
> 2. If you are simply driving a floating RV...You don't sail.
> ...


Hail to the original "serious sailor".


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

SEMIJim said:


> Hey, I can splice double-braid and I'll next be splicing three-strand.


If you can already splice double-braid you won't believe how easy three-strand is. I've taught people to do it over a beer at a tiki bar. You won't even have time to order a second beer.



SEMIJim said:


> I don't do enough sailing in enough different conditions, or spend enough time on any sailboat, to count myself a "real sailor." I'm more a "weekend warrior," and not even consistently that.


What's wrong with being a weekend warrior? I know a lot of serious sailors that are weekend warriors, at least by my own very subjective and qualitative definition.


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

SVAuspicious said:


> If you can already splice double-braid you won't believe how easy three-strand is. I've taught people to do it over a beer at a tiki bar. You won't even have time to order a second beer.


Yup. I watched Brion Toss' video on it yesterday afternoon. Pretty simple. Going to stop by the local WM, on the way to the boat today (we're going *sailing*!) and pick up a Bainbridge stainless hollow splicing fid to make it easy.

The immediate project is the draw/carry rope for my ditty bag. (The Admiral sewed me up a real nice ditty bag out of Sunbrella. I put the grommets in the mouth of it and am doing the rope work.) The length is too short to splice both ends of double-braid to a bronze shackle, so I'm using three-strand.

Then I think I'll redo the anchor rodes for the little stinkboat's anchors. I didn't know splicing three-strand at the time, so I used anchor bends. (Stitched and whipped the the bitter ends to the working end to make certain they'd stay put.) I'll redo them with a 3-strand crown. More elegant 

Got a couple 3-strand spare dock lines on Abracadabra lacking eye splices--but I suspect that rope is too set in its ways, as it were, to splice.



SVAuspicious said:


> What's wrong with being a weekend warrior? I know a lot of serious sailors that are weekend warriors, at least by my own very subjective and qualitative definition.


Nothing wrong with it in _my_ view. It's the way we roll . That's how _we_ enjoy _our_ boat.

That was all by way of poking a bit of fun at the concept of A Real Sailor, but, at the same time, giving real sailors their due. I guess what I was trying to say was I think what constitutes a "real sailor" cannot be defined. I think you simply recognize one when you see him or her. I have great respect for real sailors, and envy them for their lives and where their heads are at.

As an aside: All last night, as we were watching whatever we were watching, I sat there and tied, re-tied, and re-tied, and re-tied again, alternately, constrictors and rolling hitches. A couple more nights of that and I think they'll be burned in . Those are two useful knots I forgot how to do, and could've used once-or-twice.

Now it's time to Go Sailing!

Jim


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

and they say women are drama queens LOL Ladies, y'all watching this?


----------



## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

dnf777 said:


> I've found that most forums have their political rooms that otherwise courteous, mature members use to behave like two-year olds, and check all their decency at the link. Now I have carefully chosen the forums I subscribe to and participate in, and totally avoid the political rooms. Ironically, the two political forums I belong to (dedicated political forums) the people seem to behave much better. Maybe they're the political "pros" who better understand the need for civility, when knowingly discussing hot topics in the first place? When in a sailing forum, I stick to sailing.
> 
> Let me join the chorus of those asking you to reconsider your exit. Maybe just curtail certain rooms?


I would go nowhere near a political forum on this or any other web-site. I'm not going to change anyone's mind and in general, I like people and would like to keep it that way.


----------



## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

hmmm,what was this thread about?I've forgotten


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Let's keep it simple: If you own, maintain, and sail a boat of any size - you're a "serious sailor". You may suck at it - but you're serious - purely because of the work, money, and time you _have_ to put into it.

So, unless these guys have some other weird yacht-clubby definition they haven't come out with, there are _plenty_ of "serious sailors" around here. Meaning, these guys are just a bit misguided in their statements.

Now, being a _real_ sailor is another conversation. But that's not pertinent here.


----------



## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> Let's keep it simple: If you own, maintain, and sail a boat of any size - you're a "serious sailor". You may suck at it - but you're serious - purely because of the work, money, and time you _have_ to put into it.
> 
> So, unless these guys have some other weird yacht-clubby definition they haven't come out with, there are _plenty_ of "serious sailors" around here. Meaning, these guys are just a bit misguided in their statements.
> 
> Now, being a _real_ sailor is another conversation. But that's not pertinent here.


Amen.

This is devolving into the kind of wiener measuring contest I use to hear among my Harley buddies haggling over who was a "real" biker.

Some folks just can't feel good about themselves without trying to put someone else down.


----------



## dvuyxx (Jun 23, 2009)

Blah! Chef, I've always enjoyed and appreciated your feedback over the years. You will be missed. Hope the winds bring you back this way. I've found the off-topic related forums serve at least one purpose, they keep the crazies out of the sailing related ones.
- David


----------



## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

PalmettoSailor said:


> Amen.
> 
> This is devolving into the kind of wiener measuring contest I use to hear among my Harley buddies haggling over who was a "real" biker.


Oh God.....over on HDF that's the likes of "Bluewater or not" on this forum....


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

PalmettoSailor said:


> This is devolving into the kind of wiener measuring contest I use to hear among my Harley buddies haggling over who was a "real" biker.
> 
> Some folks just can't feel good about themselves without trying to put someone else down.


Guess I missed something. Where's the member waving? Where are the put-downs?

Jim


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

PalmettoSailor said:


> ...This is devolving into the kind of wiener measuring contest I use to hear among my Harley buddies haggling over who was a "real" biker...


When we were moored in Annapolis last week, these two boats pulled up next to us. My wife's comment was, "Their owners must have really small penises."  :laugher


----------



## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

RhythmDoctor said:


> When we were moored in Annapolis last week, these two boats pulled up next to us. My wife's comment was, "Their owners must have really small penises." :laugher


Smart gal, your wife


----------



## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

I want to bang my head against the wall for wasting my time reading this thread. It went into the holding tank pages ago. As someone else said never read past page five. 

And therein lies the difference, I also remember staying up late reading posts. The difference being I came away feeling I'd learned something.

The place was different when I came here in '05. When it became something else I drifted away so I got to miss the whole split mess. It was all over by the time I drifted back. 

Lately I find myself drifting away again. Tonight is the first I’ve been back in a few weeks and the course of this thread is probably the reason why.

But then I'm not a serious sailor. I pretty much just sail up and down the Bay and enjoy being on the water and thinking about one day being able to turn south and keep going.

I'll miss both Chefs. Sailnet needs characters with character; otherwise it will join SailJazz. C'est la vie.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

JimMcGee said:


> ...But then I'm not a serious sailor. I pretty much just sail up and down the Bay and enjoy being on the water and thinking about one day being able to turn south and keep going....


Hey Jim, nice to see you again. Which bay are you in these days - Chesapeake or Barnegat?


----------



## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

SEMIJim said:


> Guess I missed something. Where's the member waving? Where are the put-downs?
> 
> Jim


Let me preface my comments by again saying I hate seeing C2S leave the fourms, because he has been a valuable contributor. I saw the threads going off the rails that likely contributed to his decsion, and was saddened to see the souring effect and the inability or unwillingness to drop it and move on. I understand the decsion, but philosophically I agree with those inclined to respond with DLTDHYINAOTWO when someone posts a GBCW message. Its an internet fourm - If you're not getting what you want out of it, them move on.

Now where do I see member waving? Frankly, it starts in the first post, is splattered throughout this thread (and lots of others) and the history that lead up to this thread is swimming in it.

I pride myself on high standards, so my bar looks like:

Matt Rutherford = Big wiener
Rest of us = little wiener


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

PalmettoSailor said:


> Matt Rutherford = Big wiener
> Rest of us = little wiener


+1.

And, I'd like to add another:









Sam Davies = Big Wiener
Rest of us = Little Wiener (PS - those guys on the coffee grinder are the "serious sailors")


----------



## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> +1.
> 
> And, I'd like to add another:
> 
> ...


Yes Smack, that would be the racing boat for the disabled, the guys on the grind are both blind. Or it could be a gay boat, it is hot pink.


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

SimonV said:


> Or it could be a gay boat, it is hot pink.


Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Jim


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

They did miss the cardinal rule of dualing on a coffee grinder...never look longingly into the other man's eyes.

But, they're not sailors, they're models. Look at their freakin' forearms! They don't grind...at least not on boats.


----------



## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

smackdaddy said:


> +1.
> 
> And, I'd like to add another:
> 
> ...


Yo Smack,

Is that the dark side thing you've been hanging out on? Looks like you've got some nice buddies to sail with...hahah


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

aeventyr60 said:


> Yo Smack,
> 
> Is that the dark side thing you've been hanging out on? Looks like you've got some nice buddies to sail with...hahah


Smack was the one taking the picture. He saw them on the dock and asked, "Hey, buddy, would either of you like a BFS sticker?"

WHy he didn't ask the gal, we will never know. Mysteries of the sea and all...

Brian


----------



## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Cruisingdad said:


> Smack was the one taking the picture. He saw them on the dock and asked, "Hey, buddy, would either of you like a BFS sticker?"
> 
> WHy he didn't ask the gal, we will never know. Mysteries of the sea and all...
> 
> Brian


It musta been the striped sailing shirts......


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

aeventyr60 said:


> Yo Smack,
> 
> Is that the dark side thing you've been hanging out on? Looks like you've got some nice buddies to sail with...hahah


Actually, Sam is much hotter when she's not dolled up like an '80's hooker. Oh, yeah, there are some guys in the pic too. Strange.

Did you happen to see the chick, aev?

Heh-heh.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Cruisingdad said:


> Smack was the one taking the picture. He saw them on the dock and asked, "Hey, buddy, would either of you like a BFS sticker?"
> 
> WHy he didn't ask the gal, we will never know. Mysteries of the sea and all...
> 
> Brian


Oh piss off...

BTW - do you have a sticker?


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> Oh piss off...
> 
> BTW - do you have a sticker?


My sticker reads: If you can read this, I am motoring!!

Hehe!

Brian


----------



## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Bring on the BFS branded grill 
"if you grill vegetables you don't sail"

You could make a fortune out of the Catalina crowd.

Hey it worked for George Foreman.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Cruisingdad said:


> My sticker reads: If you can read this, I am motoring!!
> 
> Hehe!
> 
> Brian


Actually, that's kind of brilliant. Look out the for the next BFS Sticker installment!!!


----------



## Allen-deckard (Jul 26, 2011)

Never mind


----------



## -OvO- (Dec 31, 2011)

My boat is smaller than yours.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

-OvO- said:


> My boat is smaller than yours.


It takes a big man to admit something like that.


----------



## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

chall03 said:


> Bring on the BFS branded grill
> "if you grill vegetables you don't sail"
> 
> You could make a fortune out of the Catalina crowd.
> ...


I love vegetarian food...as long as its next to my rare steak.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

chall03 said:


> You could make a fortune out of the Catalina crowd.
> 
> Hey it worked for George Foreman.


George Foreman sold Catalinas?
Man, that sucks even worse than being beaten by Ali.


----------



## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

I think most organizations/groups/whatever are too hard on themselves when they get introspective.

I stumbled on this site a few years ago while daydreaming about one day owning a boat - which is something that's been rattling around my brain since I was 12. I had recently moved to Toronto and starting sailing with a friend, and I discovered how soft the used market is/how fun craigslist is.

Seeing newbs get encouragement here, and specifically encouragement from Jonesy and others on inspecting the boat I ended up with, combined with Smack's great suggestions about sailing with little kids ... and 18 months ago I found myself with a boat. 

We've been having an insane blast ever since. My kids might still enjoy a couple hours anchored and jumping in the water as much as a couple hours sailing. I don't have a vang, a traveller, or wind instruments. My outhaul is a reef knot from the clew to the end of the boom. When my sumlog knot spinner thingy isn't clogged with marina weed, the needle wavers too much to be really sure whether my trim adjustments help or hurt. I can't see the screen on my cheapie phone's GPS app in the cockpit, and I forget to charge the thing half the time anyway.

I dunno if I'm a "serious sailor." I like reading what gurus like Jeff and RichH and many others have to say about sail trim etc, even if I don't understand it all (eg. one line about 'feeling the keel lifting to windward' - huh?). I'm gradually starting to develop some comfort trying to bury the rail (harder than I thought). I'm thinking about cutting up an audio tape and installing jib telltales. 

I dunno if we'll ever sell the house and buy the big boat. At this pace, I dunno if we'll be able to fit the kids on it if we ever do. Maybe in 20 years when they're all grown up 

I'm having the time of my life and hopefully making lifetime memories for my kids - their crazy dad and his pirate ship. (looking for canadian suppliers of jolly rogers)

I mostly keep my mouth shut here. Lots of people with more experience than me. But I'm happy to pipe up and say this place rocks.


----------



## johnnyquest37 (Feb 16, 2012)

Zedboy: I started sailing in British Columbia 18 years ago. At the time, I had four small children from first grade to just born. Wanted to find something we could do as a family and sailing seemled like the perfect activity. We mananged to get ahold of an old Bayfield 32 that I learned to sail on and we (especially me) were hooked. We were not full time crusiers, but my children have been "raised aboard" with us sailing regularly ever since. Today, with one grown, two in college, and one in high school, they still come sailing routinely, although it is rare to have them all on the boat at one time, these days. 

Taking up sailing with my family was the best decision I ever made. It doesn't matter if you ever sell the house and cruise the world or not. You are cruising now with what will become the best crew any man could have. Good luck to you and your family.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

zedboy said:


> I mostly keep my mouth shut here. .


Stop doing that. You've got some time under your belt, especially time sailing with kids, and newbie time that is invaluable to other newbies. 
zed, Mason's has pirate flags.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Zedboy,

People should learn to just prattle on about whatever takes their fancy. Never be intimidated by those around you, by your lack of knowledge or experience nor the supposed stature of your boat.

I mean look ... when the likes of CruisingDad, Smack, Jonesy et al continue to post when it is quite obvious they are simply blowing it out their butts , when the likes of Jeff_H is allowed to go on posting his interminable monologues that no one can understand and well, that silly Fuzzy fella is tolerated while he strives to find his lost village you could not possibly do any harm.


----------



## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

tdw said:


> Zedboy,
> 
> People should learn to just prattle on about whatever takes their fancy. Never be intimidated by those around you, by your lack of knowledge or experience nor the supposed stature of your boat.
> 
> I mean look ... when the likes of CruisingDad, Smack, Jonesy et al continue to post when it is quite obvious they are simply blowing it out their butts , when the likes of Jeff_H is allowed to go on posting his interminable monologues that no one can understand and well, that silly Fuzzy fella is tolerated while he strives to find his lost village you could not possibly do any harm.


Which leads naturally to a question tdw:

What are we doing about, er uh, for, your 10,000th post? I am guessing it will come tomorrow sometime?

I'll leave this to the heavyweights . . .


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

blowinstink said:


> Which leads naturally to a question tdw:
> 
> What are we doing about, er uh, for, your 10,000th post? I am guessing it will come tomorrow sometime?
> 
> I'll leave this to the heavyweights . . .


Good point.

10,000 posts. That's ridiculous TD!


----------



## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

10K posts... you really DO prattle on don't you?! 

Of course, smack is not that far behind you... which is, of course, "ridiculous"


----------



## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Maybe there should be a Sailnet "Wall of Shame" for the 10,000th posters...


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

blowinstink said:


> Which leads naturally to a question tdw:
> 
> What are we doing about, er uh, for, your 10,000th post? I am guessing it will come tomorrow sometime?
> 
> I'll leave this to the heavyweights . . .


Man I really do need to get that life don't I ?

Not sure about tomorrow but I guess it will happen in the next week or so. Reality is though I am an imposter on the list of high posters due to the number of my posts that have been in Off Topic especially the various music threads. I reckon to be fair Off Topic should not count.

I really thought Smack would get there before me and while yeah we all know he's a complete blowhard, at least all of his posts are On Topic. 

(I just worked it out that this is roughly 30 posts a week. I know that is a lot but its way better than thirty posts a day. )


----------



## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

smackdaddy said:


> Actually, Sam is much hotter when she's not dolled up like an '80's hooker. Oh, yeah, there are some guys in the pic too. Strange.
> 
> Did you happen to see the chick, aev?
> 
> Heh-heh.


I thought the chick was one of those cardboard cutouts or one of those blow up dolls, way to lifelike. Where do you find these gals? Since large breasts are in short supply in SE Asia, I'd take one of the cardboard cut outs, if you have one to spare?


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

BentSailor said:


> 10K posts... you really DO prattle on don't you?!
> 
> Of course, smack is not that far behind you... which is, of course, "ridiculous"


Talk about the pot calling the kettle black ...... Arsehat 

Holy crap what about "jujudoll" .... only joined up in 2011 and already has over four billion posts ..... memo to Admin ..... Huston we have a DB problem.


----------



## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

aeventyr60 said:


> Maybe there should be a Sailnet "Wall of Shame" for the 10,000th posters...


Ahh.... Something to aspire to.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Now if one of you slackers could revive the Song Chain we could knock this off in no time at all ......


----------



## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

tdw said:


> Talk about the pot calling the kettle black ...... Arsehat


_*laugh*_ Yup. I recall something about my ability to talk and knickerless nuns being mentioned at some point... but that could just be vague memories of my bachelor party 



> Holy crap what about "jujudoll" .... only joined up in 2011 and already has over four billion posts ..... memo to Admin ..... Huston we have a DB problem.


Definitely an error (I see jujudoll having no posts at all). I'm guessing the number you saw was 4,294,967,297 - one plus a power of two that has special meaning for us code-crunching computer nerds. Basically, the forum code tried converting a signed "-1" value into an unsigned 32 bit integer. I'm guessing it can be safely ignored


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

BentSailor said:


> _*laugh*_ Yup. I recall something about my ability to talk and knickerless nuns being mentioned at some point... but that could just be vague memories of my bachelor party


During a run down the coast from Lake Macquarie perhaps ?



> Definitely an error (I see jujudoll having no posts at all). I'm guessing the number you saw was 4,294,967,297 - one plus a power of two that has special meaning for us code-crunching computer nerds. Basically, the forum code tried converting a signed "-1" value into an unsigned 32 bit integer. I'm guessing it can be safely ignored


I did wonder about the number .... thanks for explaining that.


----------



## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

tdw said:


> During a run down the coast from Lake Macquarie perhaps ?


Quite possibly - I talk more (& louder) the more exciting something is for me. After our race, that trip down the coast was just fantastic (for me) and my wife had to tell me to shut-up about it in the end :laugher



tdw said:


> I did wonder about the number .... thanks for explaining that.


You're welcome, I guess. Another of my bad traits, explaining everything in detail when I could have just said, for example, _"it's a common bug, don't worry about it"_.


----------



## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

And there it is boiled down to a shower full of soaped up self masculating crankers prancing about on the remains of a stolen thread.


----------



## dvuyxx (Jun 23, 2009)

sea_hunter said:


> And there it is boiled down to a shower full of soaped up self masculating crankers prancing about on the remains of a stolen thread.


Perfect, if not poetry.


----------



## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

sea_hunter said:


> And there it is boiled down to a shower full of soaped up self masculating crankers prancing about on the remains of a stolen thread.


With posts like this, I can't imagine why people would choose to leave the forum. Yes, we drifted off-topic. Mea culpa & apologies for that. 

I reckon the point could have been made without using the term than means _"an online form of male masturbation"_.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Nttatwwt


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

THreads drift. Life happens. Its the internet. I personally blame all the Australians. I mean, you gotta blame somebody, right??

Brian


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

No time to blame folks with bulldogs that have to have collars with spikes on them! now us folks with Cute dawgs..........not to mention cute ugly fuzzy's...........

Then the two or three with 10K posts, are a bit behind the leader with at least double or triple that amount...........

we are not off topic are we?!?!?!?!?!???

David, speak up, you're online!


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

blt2ski said:


> No time to blame folks with bulldogs that have to have collars with spikes on them! now us folks with Cute dawgs..........not to mention cute ugly fuzzy's...........
> 
> Then the two or three with 10K posts, are a bit behind the leader with at least double or triple that amount...........
> 
> ...


Each spike on her collar represents one Cute Dog she has had for a meal...

Brian


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

sea_hunter said:


> And there it is boiled down to a shower full of soaped up self masculating crankers prancing about on the remains of a stolen thread.


That's as funny as it is disturbing.

BTW - you're now all soapy too.

PS - I'd like a show of hands...With all the chefs jumping overboard, how many of you had the old saying, "too many cooks in the kitchen" roll through your brain?


----------



## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

smackdaddy:895259 said:


> That's as funny as it is disturbing.
> 
> BTW - you're now all soapy too.
> 
> PS - I'd like a show of hands...With all the chefs jumping overboard, how many of you had the old saying, "too many cooks in the kitchen" roll through your brain?


I'm merely filing the report as an innocent bystander not close enough to the splashing soap, but close enough to smell lavender, Pomade, Old Spice and Vaseline.


----------



## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

I think the time has come that I must announce that I will no longer be posting in this thread.

I've really enjoyed my time here, and contributing to this topic, but I feel it has drifted so far off from what it was originally made for, I can no longer support this thread.

When this thread was first created, the discussion centered around why and fond farewells were given....but now...well, it's just changed so much. I feel that it's no longer focused and the chances of it coming back around are minimal at best.

Moving forward, I will search for and try to find new threads and topics to post in...just not this one anymore. I want to make it clear that I don't harbor any ill will or feeling to anyone, it's just that it's time for me to move on. I don't feel that the mods should have a private discussion about me leaving this thread, but if they do and anyone would like to discuss this further with me via PM, I'm open to that.

Farewell, "Fond Farewell" thread....

[/subscribe]


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

JoeDiver said:


> I think the time has come that I must announce that I will no longer be posting in this thread.
> 
> I've really enjoyed my time here, and contributing to this topic, but I feel it has drifted so far off from what it was originally made for, I can no longer support this thread.
> 
> ...


...


----------



## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

JoeDiver said:


> I think the time has come that I must announce that I will no longer be posting in this thread.
> 
> I've really enjoyed my time here, and contributing to this topic, but I feel it has drifted so far off from what it was originally made for, I can no longer support this thread.
> 
> ...


DLTDHYOTAOTWO!

You are not a serious poster!


----------



## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

With JoeDiver's masterpiece, I think its time to lock this thread.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

JoeDiver said:


> I think the time has come that I must announce that I will no longer be posting in this thread.
> 
> I've really enjoyed my time here, and contributing to this topic, but I feel it has drifted so far off from what it was originally made for, I can no longer support this thread.
> 
> ...


Frankly, this is a slap in the face to all of the serious posters who have contributed to this thread.


----------



## cupper3 (Jun 30, 2010)

Ibtl


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

"BTW / Nttatwwt / Iblt "  edit - missed one DLTDHYOTAOTWO

IWPWUWSIDHTKLTUITUD - I wish people would use words so I don't have to keep looking things up in the urban dictionary


----------



## cupper3 (Jun 30, 2010)

Geoff54 said:


> "BTW / Nttatwwt / Iblt "
> 
> IWPWUWSIDHTKLTUITUD - I wish people would use words so I don't have to keep looking things up in the urban dictionary


Sorry... I thought IBTL ( In Before The Lock) was well known in forum land.

My mistake


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

cupper3 said:


> Sorry... I thought IBTL ( In Before The Lock) was well known in forum land.
> 
> My mistake


You know you are getting old when you not only have teenage grandniece but the messages that she sends you are incomprehensible. Sometimes I make something up in a message to her to get my revenge


----------



## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

Geoff54 said:


> "BTW / Nttatwwt / Iblt "  edit - missed one DLTDHYOTAOTWO
> 
> IWPWUWSIDHTKLTUITUD - I wish people would use words so I don't have to keep looking things up in the urban dictionary


BTW = By The Way
Nttatwwt = Not that there's anything wrong with that
DLTDHYOTAOTWO = Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out
NYK = Now you know.

GTG
TTFN


----------



## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

blt2ski said:


> David, speak up, you're online!


I'd like to say that Marty's dog, Mr. Winston, is very cute.


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

flyingwelshman said:


> BTW = By The Way
> Nttatwwt = Not that there's anything wrong with that
> DLTDHYOTAOTWO = Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out
> NYK = Now you know.
> ...


Dw i ddim yn deall (Just in case you are really Welsh) 

I think this thread is meandering again...


----------



## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

Geoff54 said:


> Dw i ddim yn deall (Just in case you are really Welsh)
> 
> I think this thread is meandering again...


_Mae'n ddrwg gen i_

_Mae fy hofrenfad yn llawn llyswennod!_


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

flyingwelshman said:


> _Mae'n ddrwg gen i_
> 
> _Mae fy hofrenfad yn llawn llyswennod!_


Back to English - apart from being rude to the others, Welsh takes me too long (1/2 Welsh 1/2 Essex, what do you expect?). So I didn't know "hofrenfad" or " llyswennod" so I looked them up - Did you really say "My hovercraft is full of eels"? Wow! We have meandered further than I thought.


----------



## UncleJim (Jul 27, 2009)

chall03 said:


> The implication here seems to be that one is only a 'serious sailor' and thereby a worthy contributor if you've done 1000's of miles across some deep ugly bumpy bits of water.
> 
> If you daysail a modest boat every weekend on your local waterway, and enjoy it what is wrong with that?
> Or if you race with a local club then how is that not sailing??
> ...


"...If more of us valued food and cheer and songaboved hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world..." Thorin, The Hobbit


----------



## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

Geoff54 said:


> Back to English - apart from being rude to the others, Welsh takes me too long (1/2 Welsh 1/2 Essex, what do you expect?). So I didn't know "hofrenfad" or " llyswennod" so I looked them up - Did you really say "My hovercraft is full of eels"? Wow! We have meandered further than I thought.


Is that what I said?

I guess that's what I get for using a bargain Welsh/English phrase book. 

iechyd da


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

flyingwelshman said:


> Is that what I said?
> 
> I guess that's what I get for using a bargain Welsh/English phrase book.
> 
> iechyd da


There's a phrase book - that's cheating - it should be difficult!

iechyd da i chi hefyd


----------



## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

Geoff54 said:


> There's a phrase book - that's cheating - it should be difficult!
> 
> iechyd da i chi hefyd


----------



## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

Ah! I'd forgotten. We do seem to be illustrating Chef's point about social vs sailing. Hopefully there is room for both.


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Geoff54 said:


> We do seem to be illustrating Chef's point about social vs sailing. Hopefully there is room for both.


At the risk of provoking those who believe that anybody who owns a sailboat, even if she's just permanently parked in their slip or driveway, or believes that somebody who's simply vaguely aware of what a sailboat is ("That's one of those funny-looking boats with sheets hung all over it, right?") qualifies the individual as a "sailor": Yeah: Much of this thread is probably rather demonstrating his point, I imagine.

Personally: I spend time on sailing-related sites _primarily_ to learn things about sailing and sailboats, and to share what useful things about sailing and sailboats I can. Stupidity and BS can hold my attention for only so long. The pointless blathering of dilettantes holds no interest for me whatsoever.

I cannot speak for c2s or any other the others who, if they haven't departed SN entirely, certainly spend far less time here than they used to, but I do know, from comments made to me by some of them, that, yes: Some of what's found in this thread provides an excellent example of why they've chosen to absent themselves.

Jim


----------



## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

SEMIJim said:


> At the risk of provoking those who believe that anybody who owns a sailboat, even if she's just permanently parked in their slip or driveway, or believes that somebody who's simply vaguely aware of what a sailboat is ("That's one of those funny-looking boats with sheets hung all over it, right?") qualifies the individual as a "sailor": Yeah: Much of this thread is probably rather demonstrating his point, I imagine.
> 
> Personally: I spend time on sailing-related sites _primarily_ to learn things about sailing and sailboats, and to share what useful things about sailing and sailboats I can. Stupidity and BS can hold my attention for only so long. The pointless blathering of dilettantes holds no interest for me whatsoever.
> 
> ...


*dil·et·tante*
   [dil-i-tahnt, dil-i-tahnt, -tahn-tey, -tan-tee] noun, plural dil·et·tantes, dil·et·tan·ti  [-tahn-tee] adjective
_noun_
1. a person who takes up an art, activity, or subject merely for amusement, especially in a desultory or superficial way; dabbler.
2. a lover of an art or science, especially of a fine art. 
*Synonyms*
1. amateur.

Now, seeing as most of us here are amateur sailors thus: 'dilettantes', I don't get your point.

I would be very concerned about the qualities of a 'professional' sailor who relies on Sailnet - or other comparable site - for their sailing information.

Speaking for myself: I participate on this site, as I sail: for fun. In both activities I learn a lot, but, at the end of the day, neither of them are chores.

You must be a real joy on a romantic, starlit cruise:

*Your SO*: "Darling, just look at all of those stars glistening in the heavens like the tears of angels."

*You*: "Enough of that dilettante blather. Have you finished working out the declination and sidereal hour angle of Zubenelgenubi yet?"


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

What cracks me up is that Semi seems to always read all that dilettante blather, then get grumpy that he couldn't help himself....again.....for the 1000th time.

Semi, do you realize you've been grumpy and threatening to pull a Slater for like 2 years now?


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

flyingwelshman said:


> *dil·et·tante*
> [dil-i-tahnt, dil-i-tahnt, -tahn-tey, -tan-tee] noun, plural dil·et·tantes, dil·et·tan·ti  [-tahn-tee] adjective
> _noun_
> 1. a person who takes up an art, activity, or subject merely for amusement, *especially in a desultory or superficial way*; dabbler.
> ...


See the emphasized bit. That was the context in which I am using the word.



flyingwelshman said:


> I would be very concerned about the qualities of a 'professional' sailor who relies on Sailnet - or other comparable site - for their sailing information.


I suppose that may be a function of to whom, on SN or any other sailing-related site, you look for guidance, and your ability to separate the wheat from the chaff. Personally, I've learned _a lot_, both here and on (counting...) four other sailing sites and two or three powerboating or general boating sites.



flyingwelshman said:


> Speaking for myself: I participate on this site, as I sail: for fun.


As do I. But it's a recreational pastime I take somewhat seriously. Out boat, her crew, the other boats on the water: They are all my responsibility.



flyingwelshman said:


> In both activities I learn a lot, but, at the end of the day, neither of them are chores.


You never swab the decks, change her aux power's oil and stuff like that? 



flyingwelshman said:


> You must be a real joy on a romantic, starlit cruise:
> 
> *Your SO*: "Darling, just look at all of those stars glistening in the heavens like the tears of angels."
> 
> *You*: "Enough of that dilettante blather. Have you finished working out the declination and sidereal hour angle of Zubenelgenubi yet?"












Jim


----------



## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Geoff54 said:


> Ah! I'd forgotten. We do seem to be illustrating Chef's point about social vs sailing. Hopefully there is room for both.


Oh, there is absolutely room for both and I find those who can't find room for both a tad bit suspect in their so called sailing seriousness.


----------



## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

You're kidding right? So much wasted time on the obvious. I'm sick of those posters with hands in pocket, spiking eachother. Period.


----------



## sail123 (Jul 10, 2012)

One leaves another joins. Circle of life. I post at about five boards. Not good to put all your eggs in one basket, even if you own the basket. I like to post at several and let the prevailing winds decide where to post.


----------

