# Decisions Decisions - Help me pick the right 1st sailboat!



## aimcat (May 2, 2010)

This will be my husband and I's first sailboat - so we want something we can learn with easily and keep for a few years (hopefully) our budget is limited just because we already have powerboats, jet skis, etc so dont want to dump to much into this YET - so here are our choices:

Chrysler 22 - boat has 4hp motor (may need tune up), sails, etc BUT it does need some lines, blocks and a few rigging - boat has SAT for 4+ years and not been used. Also comes with trailer. Probably can get this boat for around 1500

Helsen 22 - boat is ready to go - just needs a wash/cleaning and needs a motor - 1350 firm on that price

San Jaun 21 - havent seen it yet but has everything, 2 main sails, 2 jib, 3.5hp motor and ready to go - 1000 firm

So far thats my opitions - we have looked for about a month and this is about it for options for us - What do you guys think?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Of the three, the SJ 21 will have the best support.... lots of them around, likely an owner's association loaded with tips and tricks, I think that's the place to start... might not be the roomiest of the three, though.

Depends on your agenda; what you want to do and where you want to do it.


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## aimcat (May 2, 2010)

Learn to sail - but not racing! Just cruising around out lake enjoying the scenery, maybe camp out on the boat a night here and there. We will be on a lake that is fairly wide and good sized.









Helsen









Chry 22


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## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

the SJ21 might have the best support, but the Helsen is in my opinion your best bet. A lot roomier than the SJ and Chrysler. The H is a wider and little longer boat (a true 22' compared to 20.5' for the other 2) This extra length and beam will make quite a difference in a small boat like that, especially for that once and a while over-nighting. All are nice pocket sailers, but I would choose the Helsen 22, with its longer LWL and a weight in between the Chrysler and SJ and the same std Sail Area as the Chrysler, she is a quicker boat, but not as temperamental as the SJ.
Just buy one and go sailing.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

The Helsen is a pretty little boat... in this price bracket as a 'trial' it's pretty hard to go too wrong....


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## aimcat (May 2, 2010)

Ok gonna throw another in the mix....a 26 chrysler? 1500? No trailer. Would a 26 foot be over doing it since we are new at this?

Yes I do really like the helsen. I actually love the yellow. I know most people probably won't like it though. That name on the side has to come off though!


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

The problem with going with a boat that has no trailer is you become liable for yard storage fees. Having a trailer that you can put in a driveway can save you a lot of extra $$$. You already knew this though.
$1500 for a 26' boat sounds pretty cheap. Does it come with a motor?


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## junkrig (Jun 3, 2011)

A used motor for the Helson might easily double its price. Real cheap outboards can be nightmares.


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## aimcat (May 2, 2010)

So your saying that finding a reliable outboard for the Helsen would increase its value.

Also on the 26fter has very old Johnson that sat all winter - and they arent sure it works.


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## junkrig (Jun 3, 2011)

A reliable motor might increase the value, but sadly, you almost for sure wouldn't break even on a new motor come resale time. Old 2-stroke outboards will run for a long, long time if they don't sit with the carburetors full of fuel, but most of them have. It evaporates and turns into insoluble gunk.
whether you'd get your money back or not, you need a motor for security. I would recommend a new 2 stroke. They are fuel injected, which makes them fuel efficient, non polluting, light for their power... if it wasn't for how bad the old ones stunk, polluted, and wasted fuel, modern ones would be very popular.
I don't sell or represent any boat motor products.


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## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

*trailer*

I think it is a must to have a trailer when looking at the boat size(s) you're looking at. Hence I think the H is still a better option than the C(s)


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## aimcat (May 2, 2010)

Yes Im leaning way toward the H. Can anyone make any recommendations of the better outboard motor brands? Also what would be the minimum HP you would get? Ive been finding some motors and anything affordable will have to be a 2 stroke. Although Ive heard people say that the newer 4 stroke motors stink?


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## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

*bigger*

The bigger the old boat the more room you'll have, the bigger the head-aches you'll have, the higher the cost(s) for parts and maintenance.
Speaking from experience, started with a 10ft boat up to a 45' boat back to 32' now, but you know the saying "a boat owner always wants a bigger boat and their current one is always for sale because of that"
As a matter of fact mine is for sale for a steal.


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## aimcat (May 2, 2010)

Well I think starting with the 22 Helsen would be a good choice for us. The boat has been redone, its ready to go, just finding an engine for it which should not be too hard. Its got a trailer, and it does have a nice enough cabin if we did sleep in it a night here and there. 
Does anyone know if there is a Helsen forum or owners forum site out there?


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## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

*OB motor*

I think an 6 to 10 hp OB would be more than sufficient for a 22ft'er sailing on an inland lake as I assume you'll be doing.
Any motor that checks out OK with a mechanic (compression, cooling pump, etc) should be OK. Don't discard the lesser known motors such as Suzuki, Nissan, Sail, and Yamaha, these 4 are as good as the major Mercury, Envinrude, Johnson, etc. in the smaller HP range.
It is nice if you can get a OB specifically made for a sailboat as they quite often have a alternator output which can charge your on-board battery.
Basically have any motor checked out by a professional, if you want to be sure.
Happy Sailing.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

The Helsen looks like a good choice.

RE MOTOR I had a Jaguar/Catalina 22 and it came with a 8hp longshaft. I don't think I ever needed more than half throttle.

Anything from 4 to 8 hp will do but do get a longshaft motor. Buying used is always a bit of a ****shoot but if the owner can demonstrate it or allows you to test it and it starts easily cold AND hot and the cooling flow from the pee hole is steady then there can't be much wrong with it.

I also would not worry about age [except maybe for spares] on a used OB condition is more important. My tender sports a 23 year old Johnson which is still going strong.


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## aimcat (May 2, 2010)

I have found a Nissan 6hp - its a mid to early 90s model and has 2 hours of use. Has the built in gas tank. What would thoughts be on that?


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

​


aimcat said:


> I have found a Nissan 6hp - its a mid to early 90s model and has 2 hours of use. Has the built in gas tank. What would thoughts be on that?


LONGSHAFT ??


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## aimcat (May 2, 2010)

Oh yes 20" long shaft.....


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

aimcat said:


> I have found a Nissan 6hp - its a mid to early 90s model and has 2 hours of use. Has the built in gas tank. What would thoughts be on that?


We have had several versions of the Nissan engines, a couple of 5hps and currently a 3.5. Largely trouble free and reliable. Basic maintenance, and paying attention to keeping old fuel out of the system is all it takes. Worst thing we had to deal with was clogged jets from dirty fuel, easy to strip and clean carb but some of the jets are rather hidden.

The only other problem with them is that due to popularity they might get stolen (ask how I know... )

Interestingly last time we shopped they were all made by Tohatsu (Nissan, Merc, and a couple of others) but Nissan offered twice the warranty period....


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## aimcat (May 2, 2010)

Oh and I meant to put 5hp instead of 6. Also didnt think about them getting stolen! Is there anyway to make sure they dont? Other than taking them off every time?!


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## junkrig (Jun 3, 2011)

*padlock*

There is usually some provision for padlocking the motor clamps. Thieves will likely go looking for easier prey.
The Nissan should be a good motor. Dirty fuel, or fuel with water in it, or old fuel has stopped more outboards than motor failure.
When you get back to the dock or trailer turn off the valve on the fuel tank and let the motor idle until it quits. It will clear out leftover fuel in lines and carburetors.


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## arknoah (Oct 31, 2010)

EJO said:


> The bigger the old boat the more room you'll have, the bigger the head-aches you'll have, the higher the cost(s) for parts and maintenance.
> Speaking from experience, started with a 10ft boat up to a 45' boat back to 32' now, but you know the saying "a boat owner always wants a bigger boat and their current one is always for sale because of that"
> As a matter of fact mine is for sale for a steal.


Just as an aside, when my son and I were motoring our boat from the repair marina to our current marina, a couple of people told me stuff like "You'll be looking at a boat with an inboard in a couple of years," or "you'll be buying up soon." At the same time, I've read notes from lots of people who have bought bigger a couple of times, then when they hit their 70s decide to downsize to their original boat size! I'm trying to avoid the two up-sizings and stick with my 25 footer!


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## aimcat (May 2, 2010)

Does anyone notice on the Helsen it does not have railing around the boat? Should it? Should I install some?
And also Ive found a 4hp merc 4 stroke - used maybe 30 hours...2004-5 model they want 600 - is that a good deal?


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Regarding the motor - $600 for a outboard in great shape is a decent price

Regarding lifelines and stanchions - most small boats don't have them. Even bigger day sailors are getting rid of them. Wear PFDs of course. 

Always buy a smaller boat than you think you need - easier to manage and always more fun.


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## aimcat (May 2, 2010)

Just when I think that is the boat I am getting - we were suppose to meet today and the people backed out! Wow! How dissapointing! Does anyone have any outlets for boats for sale? Maybe something Ive missed online? Ive scoured craigslist, searchtempest, sailboatlistings, etc!


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Go to the local marinas and ask around - go to a local club is another good place to start.


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## aimcat (May 2, 2010)

Yes - tried all that - no luck.


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## junkrig (Jun 3, 2011)

Is the San Juan 21 still out there someplace? Very actively sailed boat, active online and on-water groups... I know it's not your first choice but it looks like a nice boat.
Google Small Craft Advisor. See their site, I'd recommend a subscription. Meet people more focused on trailerable craft than most of the folks here, get an additional viewpoint.
No, they don't pay me. I just like the mag & ideas.


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## aimcat (May 2, 2010)

I think it is but the people will not get back with me...so I dont know what is up with that.
Right now my other choices are (I just came across some of these and inquired about them)

A 25ft Helms - no trailer, no motor, no jib...asking $600

22 Macgregor with everything but sort of rough and inside definately needs a facelift - 1000 (not really crazy about it but I am open to opinions)

The C-22 mentioned above

Also came upon a Aquarius 23 - inside is rough but outside is nice - 1500


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## arknoah (Oct 31, 2010)

Have you had any more progress on a boat purchase?


F. J.


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## aimcat (May 2, 2010)

To further complicate things I have now found a 22 Catalina in my price range, that has had a lot done to it and is in great shape! Are these boats better quality? I know they were mass produced like the macgregors which seem to have bad reviews.


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## arknoah (Oct 31, 2010)

aimcat said:


> To further complicate things I have now found a 22 Catalina in my price range, that has had a lot done to it and is in great shape! Are these boats better quality? I know they were mass produced like the macgregors which seem to have bad reviews.


I am only a newer MacGregor owner, so I won't open up the can of worms about performance, compromise, etc. However, I've seen that many, many sailors on this forum and others started with Catalina 22s. The comments I've read have said that they are simple, decent boats that aren't particularly expensive, there's great support for them since they're still being produced, and there are lots of ways to connect to other owners through clubs, races, etc.

The only other cruising sailboat I considered before buying my Mac 25 was a Catalina 22, so I believe it to be a good boat especially for a beginner.


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## aimcat (May 2, 2010)

Great - well I bought her so no turning back now!


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

aimcat said:


> Great - well I bought her so no turning back now!


Good... decision made. Now comes the fun part. Enjoy!


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