# 1973 Grampian 26' -- Opinions & Questions



## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

Hello. I'm new to the forum and potentially (hopefully?) will be the new owner of a small cruiser in the near future. Finally have my wife on board (ha ha) with the idea. We sail exclusively on Lake Champlain.

I currently have my eye on a Grampian 26'. 1973 Grampian Grampian 26 sailboat for sale in Vermont

And I'm also looking at a Seafarer 26'. 1981 Seafarer sloop sailboat for sale in Vermont

The Grampian appeals to me a bit more because (1) I've read that these are fairly well built boats and seem to age well without a lot of major problems; and (2) the outboard will be a whole lot easier to maintain/replace than a 1981 inboard Yanmar (as much as I'd like to have an inboard).

My main questions are for general opinions on these boats, but also what to look for when going for a viewing. I've been sailing smaller daysailers all my life, but have never been the purchaser of a boat, and don't have experience assessing larger boats. The Grampian is in the water currently--should I ask to have it pulled?

I've also seen mention of people getting a survey done. Is that something I will have to do to insure? The price point on these boats does not seem to justify the cost of what I understand a survey costs, especially if I also have to pay to have the Grampian pulled.

Thanks in advance. Hope to spend some time here with you folks.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Most insurance companies want a survey. If I'm buying a boat I WANT a survey. As far as hauling the boat for inspection/survey, that is usually the buyer's responsibility to have done and pay for, but...everything is negotiable. If the seller is real anxious to sell, you can try to make that part of the sale, that he pays for hauling but don't be surprised if you are turned down.

I hear what you are saying about inboard vs. outboard but having an inboard is Far better than having an outboard especially if you are under power and in choppy water.

If I had to choose between just those 2, hands down on the Seafarer even with the higher price.


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## CorvetteGuy (Jun 4, 2011)

G 26 is a sweet ride, lots of room down below and they are every where for any parts. Our club race champ sailed a G 26 for years and it moved. Well built and can handle just about anything. is it a fixed or a drop keel?


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Hi caberg, Grampians are known as very solid, seaworthy boats. Not fancy, but well built comfortable cruisers. I own a Grampian 34 (www.elysian.ca), but have sailed Gramp 26s.

The other nice thing about all Grampian models are their relative size down below. They tend to be roomy, with more head room than most boats in their class (ex: my 34 has 7-feet of headroom!). And as an added plus, they're good sailors -- decently fast.

There's nothing specific that I can think of to look for, but here's a quick list of things to examine on all used boats (and probably new ones too):

- deck core problems; any older boat with cored decks (and most have cores) can develop problems with water intrusion. Sound around all deck fittings, and look below for any signs of water intrusion.

- examine the mast step for any signs of compression.

- check for water intrusion around ports. If the ports have not been upgraded, they will likely be leaking.

- standing rigging should be examined. Find out how old it is.

- look for signs of leakage through the hull-deck joint.

- look in the bilge, and examine the keel bolts.

- look at the keel/hull joint.

- rotate the rudder out of the water and look for any play in the shaft.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

I owned a 72 Grampian 26 and sailed it for about a decade on Lake Michigan. I was very pleased with the boat. Sturdy and sailed well. Not much of a looker, though. 

I had a long shaft Evinrude 10 horse on it, which provided ample power and I experienced little problem keeping the prop in the water, under a variety of conditions. The waves on Lake Michigan are known to be steep, and spaced closely together. The outboard sits in a cutout in the transom, which is handy for backing into a slip. I found it easier to back in than go forward, as I was able to hold the boat's tiller in one hand and the motor's tiller in the other and easily point the stern where I wanted it to go. With an outboard, you'll never have a repair that exceeds the cost of a decent used replacement motor. An older Yanmar might give you excellent service, but if you have a major problem, you are sceeeeeerewd. If a repair is required on your outboard, just unscrew it from the boat and toss it in your trunk and take it to the shop of your choosing. Just my opinion, but I think there's a lot to be said for an outboard on a 26 foot boat, especially one that does a good job of keeping it's prop in the water.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

Grampian - No other boat conjures up youthful fun like a Grampian..


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

35 years ago I did a cruise on a G-26 with 3 others. It was a very satisfactory little boat. Sailed quite well and had a LOT of interior room for a 26'.

Two observations - the cabin top handrails were just straight pieces of teak screwed into raised, moulded pedestals on the cabin top and the screws pulled out of the glass. The other is that it had extraordinarily narrow (almost non-existent) side decks - that's what allowed the big interior. If I had one, I'd spend the money to get some of those stanchion bases that C&C used that fit *over* the holey rail. That would give you a few extra inches of useable side deck - it would make the difference between going forward over the high cabin top or actually being able to use the side decks.

Obviously they are old boats now and so need to be viewed on a case by case basis but I think a decent one could be customized and improved into a very nice minimum cruiser.

PHRF is around 220 so it's a middling performer. (C&C 26 is 210)


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## canadianseamonkey (Sep 4, 2006)

My first boat was a 1974 Grampian 26....great starter boat with lots of forgiveness. Go for it, you won't be disapointed. As for the survey, unless your insurance company demands one I would skip spending money for a boat of that price. Do you know a sailing buddy that would go look at it with you? A survey would cost you about 500 bucks, so it it makes you sleep better at night, then follow your gut. Let us know what you end up doing. Good luck.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Grampian, hands down. It is a BIG 26' boat while the Seafarer is the opposite- a smallish 26' boat. The difference really shows up in the v-berth. The Grampian v-berth is spacious and bright with enough room to sit up, the Seafarer's is a tight narrow dark cave. The only downside to the Gramp is the dinette layout. it makes for a more functional galley that doesn't pull double duty as a companionway step, but sacrifices the lounging space of an opposed settee layout. 
She ain't pretty, but she's solid.

That Seafarer strikes me as being marginally underpowered with an 8 hp diesel. My Georgian 23 has a 1GM10 diesel and while she can maintain hull speed with a clean prop in calm seas, any sort of chop will slow her by a knot or more. That Seafarer is hauling another 1000 lbs with 1 fewer hp.


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## svHornblower (Dec 11, 2010)

Just looking at the adds, I like the Seafarer better. It has a the inboard engine and a 150 genoa. The Genoa on the Grampian looks like it doesn't quit fit and it might have been bought second hand and made to work on this boat. If you are looking for a turn key boat at this price range then these are the details that will matter. Your best bet is look at them both and the right one will present itself. With boats, nothing can't be overcome with a little money and sweat equity. The only issue is where do you start.


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## kb3pwc (May 26, 2009)

Wow, our first "big boat" was a Grampian 26. We purchased her for a song and had the most fun, sailing her all the time always having a GREAT Adventure.

Things you want on one of these vessels is a roller furler. As noted the side decks are nonexistent so going forward to change head sails can be a walk on the wild side if you are in rough seas. Also we loved it when we added a bimini.

You will find that without an inboard engine you have an unbelievable space under the cockpit floor. You can really stash loads of stuff in that area. It is a cinch to take your outboard engine home for the winter or to the shop for work. Just can't do that with an inboard engine. The downside of the outboard is the prop comes out of the water in steep waves.

Do check that the deck mast step is not sinking with flex in the coach roof. You may note rigging getting loose or cracks in the glass at the mast step.

I think a survey is a good investment. Boat repairs cost the same if you have an expensive vessel or a budget one. I would want to know just what would be needed to keep my new vessel seaworthy and a pleasure, not a disappointment, to own.

Good luck. Know there are plenty of vessels to explore. I would try to see a few of a model I like to see which one is the best for my use.

Leslie

s/v Tango, Cabo Rico 34
Lankford Bay Marina
Chester River, MD


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

Wow, thanks for all the replies from everyone. I'm looking at the Seafarer this afternoon and the Grampian in about a week. I think I have a good idea of what to check out thanks to you all and from reading in the section on boat purchasing (guess I jumped the gun posting here in the general section). I don't think I'm going to spring for a survey. I feel somewhat competent in evaluating the condition of many of the components that have been noted. I've been on boats most of my life, and done a fair amount of repair/maintenance work on boats, just have never been a purchaser of an older boat.

I really think I'm leaning toward the Grampian for many of the reasons noted here. I have a feeling that the Seafarer will show better--it may be a cleaner boat and it is almost 10 years newer. But a few key features have me rooting for the Grampian: More room below, the outboard, and a lot of solid reviews from actual owners. Not to mention a lower price. Now to convince my wife.... She'll go on curb appeal at first.

Will keep you updated.


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## asdf38 (Jul 7, 2010)

Decks decks decks. Check the decks for signs of wetness and rot. That's the most likely major problem although there are plenty of others. I agree with your engine reasoning. 

As for the survey it would be more for piece of mind than financial reasons. Picture yourself sailing with your family and friends 2 months from now when the weather turns bad. You'll feel better at that moment if you had the boat and rig surveyed. That's the biggest reason in my mind for a boat at this price point.


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## jimq26 (Nov 7, 2001)

[
We love our '73 G26. Hull is number 583, NFS PHRF is 237, fabulous well built boat.
Check the chainplate fastening area to ensure the bulkheads are in good shape. Bulkheads on these boats should be replaced if there is any sign of water intrusion.
Our Tohatsu 9.8 extra long shaft fits perfectly in the rear transom cutout, and we have never had her come out of the water when going through heavy waves. We have had the engine under water though when a large following wave caught us. No problem on a G26 - self bails quickly, and no water goes below into the cabin.

FONT="Comic Sans MS"][/FONT]


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

asdf38 said:


> As for the survey it would be more for piece of mind than financial reasons. Picture yourself sailing with your family and friends 2 months from now when the weather turns bad. You'll feel better at that moment if you had the boat and rig surveyed. That's the biggest reason in my mind for a boat at this price point.


I hear that. We're on Lake Champlain and never very far from a marina or protected shoreline if weather suddenly turns bad. Of course, that doesn't mean that a failure of something couldn't occur on a beautiful sunny day, but even then I've never been too worried on the lake. I've towed and been towed on a few occasions without much problem.

However, having the rig at least once-overed by someone with more large-boat sailing experience than me would be a good idea. If not before purchase, then before any significant sailing.


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## rugosa (Aug 30, 2011)

What about this - 1978 Canadian Sailcraft CS 27 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com - similar length, inboard diesel, NO EXTERIOR WOOD TO MAINTAIN, huge inside, reputable builder, plenty of them sold into Montreal area and you should be able to club race on LC . . . 50% higher list price but the market is soft. Just a thought.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

Well, sort of a complete about-face, but today we purchased the Seafarer 26 and I could not be happier. After viewing the Seafarer I was sold. It had obviously been very well maintained and cared for, which became obvious when I learned from the broker that the owners are neighbors of my parents on Lake Champlain. I had not known these folks very well, but they couldn't have been nicer. They spent all morning with me rigging the boat, going over all the systems, and even offered to go out on the water to sail. They babied this boat since 1984 after buying it from the original owners who had apparently sailed a handful of times on it. They had hardly used the yanmar, having a mooring which they could sail from. They sold it with a ton of gadgets and equipment way too numerous to list. I didn't even have to show up with a life jacket.

Anyway, I'm beyond excited. So is my wife (very important) and my 3 year old boy. So, on our maiden voyage today, we had maybe 10 knots of wind for about an hour, and just flew the 150 genoa (on CDI roller furling, which is awesome). After the wind died, we spent the afternoon doing cannonballs into the lake and just lounging around. Here's my boy, it was nearly impossible to get him out of the water.










I've got about 40 miles to go tomorrow to get it to our mooring. Supposed to be a nice day and can't wait!!


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Congrats!!


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