# Lurkers!



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I just looked at the home page stats and right now we have about 50 members on line and 750 lurkers/non-members. It seems like whenever I look there are at least 10x more "watchers" than members...why is that? I can understand people lurking...but a 10x ratio constantly is weird. Nothing to ask? Nothing to contribute? Then why lurk??


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## padean (Jul 5, 2001)

*Former Lurker*

I was a "lurker" for awhile, and have enjoyed being a member for some time now. Maybe many of those "lurkers" don't understand that becoming a member is painless, simple, and has many advantages. Anyway, lurking around can also be helpful for sailors. I have found myself wandering around a marina from time to time.....


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

A good number of those could be bots (like google etc - and most likely as posts here show up within 10-15 minutes of posting in most search engines). Unless there is a filtering process on your anon count. I know on my sites they account for 20-40% of all online users at any given time.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Ahhh...good point Jody...never thought of that. Go bots!


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

When I found out that all post end up in cyberspace for any and all search engines and not contained within Sailnet site only...I almost became a Lurker again...Kind of freaky really..


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

What's wrong with bots??? Are you guys discriminating against them???


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## doncindy (Aug 5, 2007)

Disgust with flaming has a lot to do with it for me. Some of the responses on this site can be rather strong/personal


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## MMR (Oct 5, 2007)

HEY! I resent that remark! I'm a lurkette!

Seriously, aside from checking up on DH's stories, scanning the forums keeps me sane at work (some of us have to, to pay boat bills, ya know)

I read, I laugh, I get riled up and compose posts on my 90+ min commute back and forth to work. I read PBzeers log and map the trip up the coast, daydreaming of being there, daydreaming of doing it with Capt Chuckles some day (or by myself if he does the GREAT OVERBOARD dive some day).

I don't have much to say - yet...I enjoy listening...I enjoy learning...I enjoy laughing.

Ya'll are greatly appreciated. Shine on for at least this lurker....


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

As the DH (dear hubby) I occasionally resent the fact that my Admiral is a lurkette on sailnet. For the most part it is a constant reminder that I need to stay real and keep honest. 
Ya'll remember that 
I'm sittting 5 feet away from MMR as I post this, wireless living is 'engaging'


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

doncindy said:


> Disgust with flaming has a lot to do with it for me. Some of the responses on this site can be rather strong/personal


It's a common insecurity of Catalina owners. We've tried treating it to little avail. For those upon whom the treatment has been successful it has been observed that they just start out all their posts with a, "ya'll can just BITE ME!". Seems to help them. I am presuming that you're not avering a preference for weak/impersonal responses over strong/personal ones? (g)


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## buckeyesailor (Mar 9, 2008)

Wha?......you never watched a house on fire and DIDN'T throw a stick of picket fence on it?

sometimes it's okay to just watch....

personally........if there's no fence left.......I'm outta there....but that's just me.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

or STFU n00b works too.
oops wrong sailing site.


Welcome all! it's usually all in good fun...with a few exceptions occasionally.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

You guys finish off those pastries yet??? 



MMR said:


> HEY! I resent that remark! I'm a lurkette!
> 
> Seriously, aside from checking up on DH's stories, scanning the forums keeps me sane at work (some of us have to, to pay boat bills, ya know)
> 
> ...


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## MMR (Oct 5, 2007)

Yes, and thank you for blowing our LOW CARB DIET..

We're solving that problem with lots of RUM tonite and wishing we had a picture of you here under our living room palm tree.

Lordy, we have the sailing itch bad tonite!!


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## KODAD (Jan 9, 2008)

Personally, I lurked around here for about a year before I actually registered. I kinda read through old posts to get to know the regulars and decided that there was a wealth of knowledge, experience and information to be had. I then registered to get to know y'all a little better and give you a chance to know a little about me. I still 'criuse' the other fora, but have yet to register with any of them.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

"ya'll can just BITE ME!"
As a Catalina owner (forgive me Crealock et. al for I have committed the sin of purchasing a PRODUCTION boat that serves my needs) I know I wish I'd just kept my head down on this board sometimes, this is probably one of them. Damn here go all my rep points again.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

feels good, doesn't it, Capt.? (g)


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

capttb said:


> "ya'll can just BITE ME!"
> *As a Catalina owner *(forgive me Crealock et. al for I have committed the sin of purchasing a PRODUCTION boat that serves my needs) I know I wish I'd just kept my head down on this board sometimes, this is probably one of them. Damn here go all my rep points again.


Sorry to hear that Captain.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Blame Chuckles... he didn't tell me you were on a low-carb diet.   Yummy way to blow the diet though.  I'm hoping that the two big power boats that my little trimaran is trapped behind are being launched this week... I'll find out tomorrow. 


MMR said:


> Yes, and thank you for blowing our LOW CARB DIET..
> 
> We're solving that problem with lots of RUM tonite and wishing we had a picture of you here under our living room palm tree.
> 
> Lordy, we have the sailing itch bad tonite!!


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## Leopold (Jun 20, 2007)

I don't bother to log in most of the time... so I am a intensive lurker

have fun
-Leopold


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

I think those "don't ask that question again we've already discussed it. Look it up in the archives" posts really turn folks off. I find that there is something new every time.

Life is a discussion.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

doncindy said:


> Disgust with flaming has a lot to do with it for me. Some of the responses on this site can be rather strong/personal


I think if you spent any time on some of "the other sailing sites" you would come back here and find it is quite polite.


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## mjrogers (Oct 31, 2007)

Somtimes I just want to look and only sign in to say something like this: Regarding _>those "don't ask that question again we've already discussed it. Look it up in the archives" posts<_ these have been covered in the archives and this thread as well. I believe the proper response is "Ya'll can just bite me."

See lurking can be OK.

MJ

p.s. I have a Catalina and a Hunter, ya'll know what to do


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Plumper said:


> I think those "don't ask that question again we've already discussed it. Look it up in the archives" posts really turn folks off. I find that there is something new every time.
> 
> Life is a discussion.


The thought probably never crossed your mind that most of the lurkers are already reading the archives in their search for answers? I spent quite a few hours, days actually, searching the archives of posts and articles before I asked my first question. Of course I got waylaid by a bunch of other topics I was interested in during that search. (g)

Most teachers say, if you want to talk go out in the hallway. Learning mostly involves reading and listening with an occasional question. The bowline as much as the bernoulli principle are not really discusable. They are what they are, but may serve as a jumping off point for other more involved areas of debate. I'd guess that most people come to sailnet for the former versus the latter.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

mjrogers said:


> Somtimes I just want to look and only sign in to say something like this: Regarding _>those "don't ask that question again we've already discussed it. Look it up in the archives" posts<_ these have been covered in the archives and this thread as well. I believe the proper response is "Ya'll can just bite me."
> 
> See lurking can be OK.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you're a Beneteau short of a full load. (g)

just joking!


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

A full load = Benehuntalina.
(from sway's condensed thesaurus)


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## mjrogers (Oct 31, 2007)

Funny you should mention that, but I'm thinking of adding a Beneteau, or perhaps a MacGregor to my fleet. Being in Kentucky, the sailing epicenter of the Northern hemisphere, it pays to have a lot of production boats. If I got both would it be a Benehuntalinagregor?

By the way this has all been covered in the archives, I suggest you search there...


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

mjrogers said:


> If I got both would it be a Benehuntalinagregor?


I'd say a Benehuntalinagregor would exceed a full load . . . far overdue for a holding tank pump-out (g)


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## Alden68 (Mar 21, 2007)

This was a pleasant read until the Mac's came up...........


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## mjrogers (Oct 31, 2007)

So, if I sell them all and buy a Ta Shing Flying Dutchman or Panda will I find enough happiness and acceptance to reliquish my part time lurker status? That is the question... The other question is can I find one without teak decks.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Please...let's keep the Benehuntalinas separate from the Macaneers!!


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## supergrade (Jan 31, 2008)

"lurking" makes me feel pleasantly sinister. I have a cape I like to wear while doing it.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

mjrogers said:


> Funny you should mention that, but I'm thinking of adding a Beneteau, or perhaps a MacGregor to my fleet. Being in Kentucky, the sailing epicenter of the Northern hemisphere, it pays to have a lot of production boats. If I got both would it be a Benehuntalinagregor?
> 
> By the way this has all been covered in the archives, I suggest you search there...


Might be more useful to get a nice Lund and call it good.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

supergrade said:


> "lurking" makes me feel pleasantly sinister. I have a cape I like to wear while doing it.


TMI my friend.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

T34C said:


> Might be more useful to get a nice Lund and call it good.


The Benehuntalina crowd regards Lunds as elitist. Starcraft might be more the ticket!


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

Hmm...if a guy named Juan lived in Ocean Beach, and was looking for a small, fun, beach catamaran....would that be
OB Juan aHobie?


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## ScuzzMonkey (Jun 26, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> The thought probably never crossed your mind that most of the lurkers are already reading the archives in their search for answers? I spent quite a few hours, days actually, searching the archives of posts and articles before I asked my first question. Of course I got waylaid by a bunch of other topics I was interested in during that search. (g)
> 
> Most teachers say, if you want to talk go out in the hallway. Learning mostly involves reading and listening with an occasional question. The bowline as much as the bernoulli principle are not really discusable. They are what they are, but may serve as a jumping off point for other more involved areas of debate. I'd guess that most people come to sailnet for the former versus the latter.


Sailaway nailed it. For "lurkers" read "researchers." Looking for answers is how I found the site in the first place; I never bothered to register or post, however, until I learned enough that my questions started to get more complicated than the answers available in the archives. My guess is that it's mostly that learning curve that keeps people from posting. There are a lot of people who want to know about boats and sailing and fewer who are comfortable discussing the topics in "public" as it were.


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## mjrogers (Oct 31, 2007)

The only Lund sailboat I've seen had a PCV mast and plywood keel. Here is a picture: 
PICTURES


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

mjrogers, If you get the TaShing you are automatically upgraded to "bluewater" status even if it never leaves Kentucky and you quit sailing to maintain woodwork. I think there's some kind of rule that any boat with a butterfly hatch has to have wood decks.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Plumper said:


> I think those "don't ask that question again we've already discussed it. Look it up in the archives" posts really turn folks off. I find that there is something new every time.


I have to agree with Plumper on this. Time and time again I have seen a basic and/or frequently asked question posted by a newbie, only to have a condescending response given about searching the archives. First, we are not obligated to answer any question posted here (nor are we obligated to be polite and courteous - it's just that much "nicer" a community if we do). If I see a question posted like "Ketch or Sloop?", or "Fin vs. Full Keel?", I don't even bother reading it, let alone answering it. JeffH's posts alone have covered questions like that more than adequately. Second, many people have difficulty searching web site archives. It's a miracle that some people are even conversant enough on a forum to contribute at all. And personally, I like a wide range of perpectives. Although some SailNet vets can be perceived to be gruff at times, I really like Sailingdog's "If your new to SailNet please read this POST" part of his sig. Perfect.

When I first started using the web for sailing info, my initial forum experience was on the Cruising World BB. That didn't last long. Very "clickish", and sometimes even hostile to newbies. This was back in '98/'99. That's when I found Sailnet, and because of my disappointing CW experience, I lurked here for a long time (I was part of the Newport email list, though). I finally joined the conversation here, but was careful in the beginning as I didn't want to raise the ire of some of the occasionally caustic forum vets and feel ostracized from the get-go.


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## sanctuarysam (Sep 16, 2006)

*damn, sail..you are more erudite than i thought*



sailaway21 said:


> The thought probably never crossed your mind that most of the lurkers are already reading the archives in their search for answers? I spent quite a few hours, days actually, searching the archives of posts and articles before I asked my first question. Of course I got waylaid by a bunch of other topics I was interested in during that search. (g)
> 
> Most teachers say, if you want to talk go out in the hallway. Learning mostly involves reading and listening with an occasional question. The bowline as much as the bernoulli principle are not really discusable. They are what they are, but may serve as a jumping off point for other more involved areas of debate. I'd guess that most people come to sailnet for the former versus the latter.


wow, bernoulli principle...no one said there would be any math...
this place is a wealth of, moistly  polite folks..SA is a good bit of flame throwing and random teenage attacks... debilitating their site (s).from time to time (haven't been back in over a year)... so maybe they have closed all the ports..but it was leaky for a while (as what this place..just in a different way).
if you listen first, ask questions later, you will be ahead of the curve.
i think the bringing of the sailing world together, allowing us incredible, and priceless information. i find this place informative and there are just enough of us who ride the lee rail in our thought process, that i spend way more time here than i ever intend. thanks all for keeping me from my work... 
the only stupid question is the one not asked, i've always said. however, please phrase the question with a little bit of flesh... "i'm looking for a boat..i have 15k to spend, make up my mind"...yeah..i can feel the hail storm from here...
on a rare occassion, i actually say something quasi-intelligent..more often than not, my love of mayhem and mischief keeps me coming back for more.
happy 5th of april all.


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

I think the fact that it is called a Forum as opposed to library means that it should be a place to engage other people and not just read old discussions. I would rather read a book. At least then I have some idea of the competence of the author. Here, who knows anything about anyone. Someone could be proffering advice with absolutely no real experience. Reading the archives is like listening to the tapes of someone else's conversations.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

doncindy said:


> Disgust with flaming has a lot to do with it for me. Some of the responses on this site can be rather strong/personal


Your point is well taken in that we should all be aware that flaming tends to scare people off. There are places for it, like fight club for sailors, but when it creeps into the other forums it can be intimidating.

That said, I guess that you've never been over to SA: : . What goes on here is a love fest compared to what goes on over there (and I'm including the Cruising with [genius] bull dogs, and the opinions on solar... in that comparison). Most of what goes on here is good natured ribbing

At any rate, you'll never experience the full benefit of the forums until you jump in.

- Ed


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## Alden68 (Mar 21, 2007)

The first question I asked, I believe it was in regards to a pick-up bouy, I was accused by someone of being a Troll. I'm still not sure what the hell that means. I also however received some great answers which I found helpful. I would have to say that if you think you have a very basic question, like I did, do not feel embarresed to ask it simply because your question will not spark a lively debate on the separation of waterflow over a hydrofoil and it's impacts on the ozone layer. You have a question and you have every right in the world to ask it, and amidst the BS you will receive excellent answers.

My first few questions also taught me that there are 2 types of posters on this site (and probably any other public forum). The first type is a person genuinely interested in helping others and they allow themselves to have fun by letting their own brand of humor to shine through. The second type, well, they are the people who hide behind their computer screen safe and sound in their little cyber world casting stones about with impunity because they are "invisible." These are not the truely helpful types but if you wade through their nonsense you will always find what you are looking for.

Also, I dislike the "Go search the archives" routine. This isn't the Library of Congress and were not supposed to have homework assignments.

I do really get a kick out of people responding to 6 year old threads however 

So, anyway, what the hell is a troll???


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

Alden68 said:


> So, anyway, what the hell is a troll???


Well, if you would just do a "search" of the archives on that....

(actually I think 'troll' was originally used to describe people who posted inflammatory stuff in chat rooms trying to elicit emotional responses, or to just stir things up. But hey, what do I know?)


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

Ah, here you go!:

Internet Trolls

(see, I may be a troll, but at least I try to be helpful, or failing that, to at least get someone to grin...)


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## Alden68 (Mar 21, 2007)

Ahhh...2G's thank you for the research. Given the fact that you were helpful, I would have to assume that you are a gnome, at least given my limited understanding of middle earth fauna, I think gnomes are nice.

Well, I'm sorry that someone found my post on pick-up bouys inflammatory. I had no idea those little foam and plastic buggers could be so troublesome!


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## Shortman (Feb 12, 2006)

*wuz a lurker*

I look at threads before logging on, as I just did w/this one. No interesting thread, no log on.


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## wchevron (Oct 19, 2007)

alden68
maybe they misread and thought you were trying to pick-up boys. i hear pete townsend from "the who" has a forum dedicated to that.


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## GreenEgg (Mar 23, 2008)

T34C said:


> TMI my friend.


Sorry for going off topic, but, I've seen you use that before, and like AFOC, I have to ask what it means.

TMI?


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## Alden68 (Mar 21, 2007)

wchevron:

oh boy...no pun intended....I hope that wasn't the case...


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## GreenEgg (Mar 23, 2008)

2Gringos said:


> Hmm...if a guy named Juan lived in Ocean Beach, and was looking for a small, fun, beach catamaran....would that be
> OB Juan aHobie?


LOL!

Or, O B Juan cat-obie! *giggle*


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## buckeyesailor (Mar 9, 2008)

Too Many Indians?
Those Mean Iranians?
Two More Idiots?
Take My Idea?
Three More Icecubes?
Too Much Inbreeding?..............I don't know.........what?


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## GreenEgg (Mar 23, 2008)

Hi Moonfish,



> Second, many people have difficulty searching web site archives. It's a miracle that some people are even conversant enough on a forum to contribute at all. And personally, I like a wide range of perpectives. Although some SailNet vets can be perceived to be gruff at times, I really like Sailingdog's "If your new to SailNet please read this POST" part of his sig. Perfect.


I do have trouble searching for things I don't know about, because I don't know about them. If I knew what the answer was, that is what I'd search for. Sometime, I know I want to learn more, but I don't even know what questions to ask. 

I agree with your comment about Sailing Dog's link for newbies, it was very helpful when I found this site.


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## GreenEgg (Mar 23, 2008)

buckeyesailor said:


> Too Many Indians?
> Those Mean Iranians?
> Two More Idiots?
> Take My Idea?
> ...


LOL!

The Mission Impossible?
Take My Inverter?
Top Mizzen Invisible?


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## kelly888 (Sep 23, 2007)

Well, it worked Cam you finally got me out of the bilges. I have been lurking since August. I went on my first sail out of Southport in August after an absence of 15 years. Prior to this I had sailed the Great Lakes and out of San Diego for 12 years. Unforturnately, I was stricken with MS in the July of 94 and forced to retire. I never thought prior to August that I would sale again. Despite heart, cancer and MS challenges I sailed again and the wife and I fell in love with it again. I found that I can still sail and have forgotten some, but was overwhelmed by the technology that now exists. Hence, we have decided that after the house is paid off in November of 09 that we are going to buy the boat and cast off up and down the east coast and along the Gulf coast. We are working out an itenerary with the eastern chapter of the MS society to stop at various port of calls along the way and do some inspirational speaking to local chapters of the MS societies. We both feel that by showing by example that MS and other illnesses can be lived with and even conquered, is the least we can do to repay for what I have been given. So I have been lurking, trying to get my arms around all the new technology, hunting for boats and gaining knowledge from the archives. We hope to sail more during the spring and summer but we are saving like hell for the boat and think twice about shelling out bucks for charters. We know what we are going to do, we only need to move the calender up somehow. Maybe someone has some experience with moving time forward instead of wishing for the good ole days. Being retired and boatless, I spend a far amount of time lurking here.Thanks to everyone for the postings and the knowledge that you have given me and I look forward to many posts in the future.


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## buckeyesailor (Mar 9, 2008)

Good On Ya Kelly! I wish you ALL the luck in the world....and blessings.....


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

hey Kelly...at least one lurker surfaces! Welcome to the dark side! Good luck with the plans...we have run across others with disabilities including severe MS out there cruising and enjoying themselves so there is no reason you should not go for it. Hopefully we can answer some of those questions for you along the way. 

Green Egss...TMI= Too much information as in "let me tell you all about my colon cleansing" as Hawg is apt to do!


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## buckeyesailor (Mar 9, 2008)

Okay, now that I know........I have a Barium Enema scheduled for the 15th.....

Is that a TMI?


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## cockeyedbob (Dec 6, 2006)

naw, that's a PITA


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## GreenEgg (Mar 23, 2008)

camaraderie said:


> hey Kelly...at least one lurker surfaces! Welcome to the dark side! Good luck with the plans...we have run across others with disabilities including severe MS out there cruising and enjoying themselves so there is no reason you should not go for it. Hopefully we can answer some of those questions for you along the way.


It's true Kelly. I'm new here, and everyone has been very nice, and helpful. 
I feel like I'm in a nice marina, with my little boat, and yet everyone treats me like a fellow sailor, ignoring the size of my boat.

I hope you start a blog so we can follow along. 



camaraderie said:


> Green Egss...TMI= Too much information as in "let me tell you all about my colon cleansing" as Hawg is apt to do!


 *Slaps self on forehead*


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## GreenEgg (Mar 23, 2008)

cockeyedbob said:


> naw, that's a PITA


LOL!
It would be really helpful if one of you AFOC posted a thread with all the acronyms.


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

welcome, welcome, welcome, kelly and greenegg... now that the salutations are over with, stop posting on a d*amn internet board and go sailing willya???


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

GreenEgg said:


> LOL!
> It would be really helpful if one of you AFOC posted a thread with all the acronyms.


That would be too much effort...and doesn't fall in AFOC territories of responsibility. In fact over use of them one criteria that makes a AFOC a AFOC...

However, I can assist you:

All around and most complete:

Acronyms

Abbreviations and acronyms dictionary: Find definitions for over 4,211,000 abbreviations, acronyms, and initialisms

Internet common usage only:

Internet Acronyms Dictionary

Hope that helps


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## buckeyesailor (Mar 9, 2008)

Actually Jody, it didn't help at all......AFOC......

Abram Friedman Occupational Center
Air Force Operations Center
Asean Forum on Coal?..........and that was the BEST they had.....

on my own I came up with:
Aquatic Fungus On Cheese, and 
Accidental Friends Over Cocktails......

I know I'm a little slow sometimes.....but what's AFOC?


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

kelly888 said:


> Well, it worked Cam you finally got me out of the bilges. I have been lurking since August. I went on my first sail out of Southport in August after an absence of 15 years. Prior to this I had sailed the Great Lakes and out of San Diego for 12 years. Unforturnately, I was stricken with MS in the July of 94 and forced to retire. I never thought prior to August that I would sale again. Despite heart, cancer and MS challenges I sailed again and the wife and I fell in love with it again. I found that I can still sail and have forgotten some, but was overwhelmed by the technology that now exists. Hence, we have decided that after the house is paid off in November of 09 that we are going to buy the boat and cast off up and down the east coast and along the Gulf coast. We are working out an itenerary with the eastern chapter of the MS society to stop at various port of calls along the way and do some inspirational speaking to local chapters of the MS societies. We both feel that by showing by example that MS and other illnesses can be lived with and even conquered, is the least we can do to repay for what I have been given. So I have been lurking, trying to get my arms around all the new technology, hunting for boats and gaining knowledge from the archives. We hope to sail more during the spring and summer but we are saving like hell for the boat and think twice about shelling out bucks for charters. We know what we are going to do, we only need to move the calender up somehow. Maybe someone has some experience with moving time forward instead of wishing for the good ole days. Being retired and boatless, I spend a far amount of time lurking here.Thanks to everyone for the postings and the knowledge that you have given me and I look forward to many posts in the future.


Welcome aboard lurker, I mean Kelly.

Do you live near Connecticut? If so maybe you can sail with me this summer.


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## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

buckeyesailor said:


> Okay, now that I know........I have a Barium Enema scheduled for the 15th.....
> 
> Is that a TMI?


No, that's a TFS.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Welcome Kelly...and what a cool story...you rock Dude..


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Buckeye,

AFOC = Ass Full of Crap. No really, check out thread with same name.


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## kelly888 (Sep 23, 2007)

Thanks all for the welcome.. Actually I live in Fayetteville, NC.. and I learned to sail on Lake Erie and raced there also.. Alas, I learned the old fashion way, no furling headsails, no gps, lucky if you had Loran but I had lots and lots of paper charts and dividers.. Once again thanks all for the welcome


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Many new members overlook the articles archives which contain great information by some of the more well known sailors and sailing writers around. These are not the same as the archival threads but more like short magazine articles. Good stuff there.


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## mjrogers (Oct 31, 2007)

Actually, the articles are how I found this site. Sailaway hit it right on the head. They are very good. If you haven't read them you should.


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## buckeyesailor (Mar 9, 2008)

In my wildest dreams MrRogers.......I doubt that I will live long enough to read even half of those archives.....

while looking up old threads however, I have run across some mighty interesting reads.....

I think many of us ask a question after researching but find it unanswered in previous posts.....or to our satisfaction at least....


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## xcbxer (Mar 19, 2008)

for any new new really new lurkers (to any forum)-----

lurk for a while to get the drift

do a few topic searches to get some depth

watch for the shoals that other newbies hit

check out the stickys, rules and browse all the topic categories

remember every forum has its tight group, don't let them throw you off, they are usually friendlies

register, and pop in with something semi intelligent on an existing thread, proof read your preview, maybe wait a day, repreview and post

start a new thread, bring something to the table (full of body but not too complex)

copy your new thread that you worked hours on, it sometimes does not post first hit

most important - always start your sentences with capitals and end with periods and don't get too long winded

----the moderators here are active, there is an off topic forum (this really saves many a tech topic from going political), overall I give this site 9 3/4 out of ten

keep digging the the rest of the internet, it has many experts spilling their guts for free (jack rabbit)

danger - I now spending more time on net than getting ready for lift in (3weeks away)


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

That was good Xc, and welcome to Sailnet. We'll try not to bite your head off. 
Most people here are very friendly, even the grumpy ones.


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## Newb (Apr 6, 2008)

Well, I got banned for disagreeing with the bosses. I guess I'll get banned again for this post. But they haven't figured out how to stop me from lurking, so I will peacefully watch the fun.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Lurkers*

Hah!

We all know that many of the lurkers are either, A. scurrilous scoundrels seeking to steal our identities, or B. snoopers from homeland security trying to spot slimy scum who surreptitiously search the internet....There are also some aliens up there in the mother ship, but that is yet another theory.....


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## xcbxer (Mar 19, 2008)

> Well, I got banned for disagreeing with the bosses.


wow, that's got my curiosity peeked


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

xcbxer said:


> wow, that's got my curiosity peeked


Mine also.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

xcbxer said:


> wow, that's got my curiosity peeked


Don't let it peek it- when one gets banned its for a good reason... sometimes its a suggested vacation from being online with too much intake of sub-par hallucinogenic vino, meds, herb, grey weather whatever... mods here do look at what you contribute. If banned for life.. then it means that you simply were just an ass and not just an ass full of crap... Usually, if you do actually try and assist other and provide valuable info - an occasional slip up is ok...sometimes - we do that and get carried away and its a way to say "step away from the keyboard - get another hobby for a bit" and come back...

If one takes it personally without recognizing what they contributed to the ban - yep, wear it the banned badge, lurk and do whatever...But the mods here do what they do because they are involved, and this is not SA, or other wahoo sail sites...

So let your curiosity get peeked by the latest articles, new posts on solar, etc....but not by how to be banned...


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## Newb (Apr 6, 2008)

Wow... I kept my mouth shut until the Cam asked why there are so many lurkers. I got banned for disagreeing with him. And if I was stalking him, I would have blown him up in some other forum that we both belong to where he shares his opinions.

_ "sometimes its a suggested vacation from being online with too much intake of sub-par hallucinogenic vino, meds, herb, grey weather whatever... "_

love that one.... Guess I'm banned again, doesn't matter, I could never rise to the level of the master and commanders and would never really have anything worth contributing. Hey guys, lighten-up just a little. You tossed me in January and it's April, and I have not posted anything in roughly 3 months. So, I obviouly do have a life other than screwing around with you, but I do enjoy reading, and learning from the large group of sailors that post here, so I lurk and listen. Most are very knowledgable and there is a lot of great sailing information here. There are however some very big egos on this board that cannot stand to be disagreeed with, and so after this I drop back to "Lurker", because I refuse to argue with the absolute power. Free speech is not guaranteed by the constitution on the internet and the guys who pay for the website get to censor the content. So, farewell and fair winds.

Salty


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Newb said:


> Wow... I kept my mouth shut until the Cam asked why there are so many lurkers. I got banned for disagreeing with him. And if I was stalking him, I would have blown him up in some other forum that we both belong to where he shares his opinions.
> 
> _ "sometimes its a suggested vacation from being online with too much intake of sub-par hallucinogenic vino, meds, herb, grey weather whatever... "_
> 
> ...


You do not get banned without a reason... so either get over it and contribute positively - or gloat or gloom over the past... I have been banned and I didn't agree at first but it also changed how I contribute as well... its not an absolute power thing here its the risk of doing so by mods to keep the board civil... This is not a "free speech" board - its a "free speech if you contribute to the topics related to the sailing community" board...

They have that right...

I have crossed the line myself - you either adjust or find somewhere else better suited for your style. Do not expect this board to bend to suite your tastes...that is not what this community is about...

If you just get over you anger over being banned in the first place and just contribute positive efforts in helping others and the likes - I assure you, it will all be the best a forum based community can be...

But do please - get over it...I am still here and none of the moderators think I am the poster child for anything else but a MacGregor... I don't agree...I was hoping poster child for Viagra..but it all works...


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## Newb (Apr 6, 2008)

*I'm over it...*

If I wasn't, I would have been causing problems..... The question was..... Why do you have so manner lurkers? My opinion of the answer to the question posed was, what I posted... Why do I have to change my opinion and/or change my behavior? I have not "threatened anyone" and I have been very polite. Come on...I'll buy you a beer at Snappas July 7th. Let's sail, party, and break bread!


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## tenuki (Feb 11, 2007)

MMR said:


> daydreaming of *doing it* with Capt Chuckles some day


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

"Okay, keep your hands up where we can all see them and slowly back away from the keyboard and nobody gets hurt"
What the IT manager at work used to always say when confronted with a E-mail problem, applies lots of places in cyberspace. Goodnight from the West Coast Y'all.


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

Arghhhhhh! I can't stand it anymore! I can't!!!

It's 'Piqued', dammitall.....PIQUED!!!! Not freeking "peeked." 
I mean, even 'peaked' would look better on paper, although that has two pronunciations and neither of them are what you are trying to say!!!....


ok..ok.....sorry....I am okay now...more espresso...nuther cigarette....I lost control there for a moment. You know how us power boaters can get...


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## GreenEgg (Mar 23, 2008)

cardiacpaul said:


> welcome, welcome, welcome, kelly and greenegg... now that the salutations are over with, stop posting on a d*amn internet board and go sailing willya???


LOL!

Thanks for the welcome Cardiac Paul.

My river is frozen, and my boat is on the hard. 

(We usually put her in the water near the middle of May.)


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## GreenEgg (Mar 23, 2008)

artbyjody said:


> That would be too much effort...and doesn't fall in AFOC territories of responsibility. In fact over use of them one criteria that makes a AFOC a AFOC...
> 
> However, I can assist you:
> 
> Hope that helps


Ahhh! There are 611,000 acronyms at the first link.
I'll take my request back, if I can.


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## sanctuarysam (Sep 16, 2006)

2Gringos said:


> Arghhhhhh! I can't stand it anymore! I can't!!!
> 
> It's 'Piqued', dammitall.....PIQUED!!!! Not freeking "peeked."
> I mean, even 'peaked' would look better on paper, although that has two pronunciations and neither of them are what you are trying to say!!!....
> ...


admitting you have a problem, is the first step in recovery...'come away from the dark side luke...let the force guide you.' i can't even begin to imagine the pain you feel at fill-up...then again, i like the free power (being as i'm cheap and all).
i have to admit, and possibly this comes from having a BA in English, i cringe when i read some of these posts. i know with Giu, english is his 2nd (or more, i bet) language, however, and a big however too, jeezus, take a few seconds and correct the spelling and grammar before you post. that is after all, why they let you "preview" your post so you might edit one last time before 'submit'.
my personal faves..their, there, they're and most of its misuse.
oh, did i mention to, two and too?
don't get me started on the butchering of some colloquialisms..(have a marriage between irrespective and regardless..my skin crawls just at the thought.fingernails on a chalkboard kind...)
i'm w/ 2gringos, 'nuther cup of joe, and another smoke..then back to work. 
wanna talk lyrics butchering next?CCR's 'bathroom on the right'...
everyone have a great sunday


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Sam...Irregardless of you're massage, I will due my best two heel this problem.


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## sanctuarysam (Sep 16, 2006)

*Touche' Cam*



camaraderie said:


> Sam...Irregardless of you're massage, I will due my best two heel this problem.


one of the main reasons i spend so much time here (beyond some great advice that i take to heart), but i laugh my ass off here. b cuz i lik it hear, i stay (or shroud)
'memeber, the medium is the massage*..

*(bonus points for anyone who catches the Marshall McLuhan reference).
The Medium is the Massage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Lurkbots. Kewl.


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## xcbxer (Mar 19, 2008)

> Arghhhhhh! I can't stand it anymore! I can't!!!
> 
> It's 'Piqued', dammitall.....PIQUED!!!! Not freeking "peeked."


I started that mispell. Being a fan of the Queen's English and watching it hit the pooper with our current crop of educaters is disheartening. For my contribution to the downward spiral I apologize.

to write longer threads, I usually invoke the the rap option, no capitals, few periods, cadence dictated by commas and dashes - it takes too long to make it purrfect, so concentrate instead on readibilty, ie content and clarity


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

*Quite a timely thread (whenever it began)*

I started looking at the site soon after getting my first boat.

I registered shortly after that.

I found that responses to my questions etc. were very helpful.

I have been trying to take my role on the board to a higher level. That is trying to participate in some of the Off Topic threads and just generally trying to break in to the obviously close knit community here.

I am beginning to get frustrated with my inability to do so.

There is a very strong 'clique' that has a lot of history together - this is definitely not a bad thing. But they do tend to close ranks very quickly and shut out non-members with a lot of inside jokes; obscure references etc.

I feel like I've come to a party; the host was very welcoming (as I found this board to be); then I'm left to my own devices as a group of old friends huddle together and enjoy each others company. I can hover on the periphery, laugh at the jokes and participate in the conversation as a listener, but when I try to contribute, a heavy silence fills the room, until one of the 'group' take the conversation in a new direction.

The only reason I brought this up was because we were asked for our opinion.

Otherwise I would not have mentioned it - just sunk back into the mists and lurked.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

A lot of the "private" inside jokes are actually based on public posts...you just have to be willing to read some of the longer threads... A good example is the AFOC thread, the solar thread, or the sailing with genius bull dogs thread.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Flying...interesting comments. From my perspective you are welcome in any thread and if you have interesting things to say or contribute, they will be responded to. There is definitely a tight knit core of "regulars" here and we share some history and memories and old jokes as you might expect. Nevertheless, I don't think it is too hard for a relative "newby" to break in and become well accepted within that core...just scrolling up this thread, I see Jody and Gringos and even really new folks like GreenEggs, well established here in relatively short time. IMHO...people get valued here by:
1. Their ability to contribute to the knowledge.
2. Their ability to bring a different perspective to the conversation
3. Their ability to make us laugh...either with them or AT them! 
4. Our evaluation of them as sincere, well meaning, good fellow sailors as measured by the content of their postings.

So...I guess my message is....keep trying...sometimes it just takes a bit!


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

flyingwelshman said:


> There is a very strong 'clique' that has a lot of history together - this is definitely not a bad thing. But they do tend to close ranks very quickly and shut out non-members with a lot of inside jokes; obscure references etc.


That just comes with time, it is not like everyone is doing it shun people. Off-topic is off-topic so to say. Some of the topics are very opinionated - and for some they like to "get into it"...You have to harden your skin a bit and take things not so personally when views get thrown about.... even the inside jokes are not that much inside if you read the threads.

If you really want to fit in here are some suggestions:

1. Learn photoshop and build a photo collection of RVs, upside down multi-hulls, and various people in drag... then photoshop away a interesting caption and maybe a member face or two in it...

2. Whenever feeling left out ask in any off-topic thread:
Are Catalina's really the Ferrari of sailboats - I am considering one.

Any advice on a multi hull you can give me - is it true they are condos on water and do not capsize. Then find a picture of the worst looking one you can on the net - and post with - I am considering this one.

What is the best BBQ for my boat...and state about 20 different things you want to do with it...none of which should be for cooking...

Every once in awhile suggest that you may be going to Portugal to visit that barn with alot of cars in it or that you are looking into buying a really cheap Hanse...
​But in reality, the only real way - is just by contributing info and helping others and asking questions... there truly is no secret group here - otherwise I would be non-existent online here...


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## JiffyLube (Jan 25, 2008)

I might appear as a lurker sometimes, because I may be reading the threads from the beginning...and there are so many threads to read! I respond once in awhile if I feel I have something to say, otherwise I just keep reading on seeing if there is something that I might learn from. I belong to more than one group, but I have to say this is the most lively one I've found. Every group has a 'Good Ole Boys' network, much like life itself, and it takes time to become accepted...if that's what you're looking for or if it really matters to you. Personally, I like making new friends, but if they don't want to be friends there is nothing I can do about it...and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it either...I'm going sailing


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

Slight Hijack here
I was searching the member registry. There has to be at least 10 to one probably much more of registered user names than active participants. We all use user (Screen, whatever) names that have some sort of meaning to us. Why don't the moderators clean out those non-active names and free them up for new people. Just seems like a waste.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

*I feel the love...*

It's not that my life is incomplete without new friends - I have plenty of friends and acquaintances in 'real life'. Which is not to say that I wouldn't enjoy (and virtually do enjoy) the company of many on this board.

The question was asked about the number of lurkers vs. participants. I was offering my opinion based on my particular experience.

And Jody - my point is that I have attempted some of those things (see here for example):


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

sanctuarysam said:


> ...don't get me started on the butchering of some colloquialisms..(have a marriage between irrespective and regardless..my skin crawls just at the thought.fingernails on a chalkboard kind...)
> i'm w/ 2gringos, 'nuther cup of joe, and another smoke..then back to work.
> wanna talk lyrics butchering next?CCR's 'bathroom on the right'...
> everyone have a great sunday


One of the butchered phrases that annoys me is when someone wants to say that they do not care about something, and so they write " I could care less...."(about whatever it is)". They usually write it with some flippant observation, and end it with a preposition....but that's a different issue.

Well, if one says that they could care LESS, that means that they DO care. Not that they do not care. If you truly do NOT care, you would write " I could not care less". (Those who care, should be less careless with their 'care less'.)

Ok..end of irrelevant mini rant.

How bout Jimi Hendrix' 'Scuse me while I kiss this guy'?


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

U wil gust hav tu get useto my speling caus I hav tu put up with u'alls words tu ya no....



sanctuarysam said:


> admitting you have a problem, is the first step in recovery...'come away from the dark side luke...let the force guide you.' i can't even begin to imagine the pain you feel at fill-up...then again, i like the free power (being as i'm cheap and all).
> i have to admit, and possibly this comes from having a BA in English, i cringe when i read some of these posts. i know with Giu, english is his 2nd (or more, i bet) language, however, and a big however too, jeezus, take a few seconds and correct the spelling and grammar before you post. that is after all, why they let you "preview" your post so you might edit one last time before 'submit'.
> my personal faves..their, there, they're and most of its misuse.
> oh, did i mention to, two and too?
> ...


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## tenuki (Feb 11, 2007)

flyingwelshman said:


> my point is that I have attempted some of those things (see here for example):


Ah, that's the problem, you have to photoshop it....


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

flyingwelshman said:


> It's not that my life is incomplete without new friends - I have plenty of friends and acquaintances in 'real life'. Which is not to say that I wouldn't enjoy (and virtually do enjoy) the company of many on this board.
> 
> The question was asked about the number of lurkers vs. participants. I was offering my opinion based on my particular experience.
> 
> And Jody - my point is that I have attempted some of those things (see here for example):


See my PMed tips for a Sailnet PhotoShop techniques. The trouble with that was - G already photo shopped a version of that one and has it hanging in his cabin to remind everyone that he rules the seas, and that young Fred is commander inherit. He has a collection of all the great Eastern leaders portraits that he does knock offs of...you couldn't win on that attempt - as wildy professional it looked!


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Brezzin said:


> Slight Hijack here
> I was searching the member registry. There has to be at least 10 to one probably much more of registered user names than active participants. We all use user (Screen, whatever) names that have some sort of meaning to us. Why don't the moderators clean out those non-active names and free them up for new people. Just seems like a waste.


Brezzin...
1. Mods have no access to member records. 
2. Not everyone who registers at sailnet does so for the forums. Some come for the store, articles, email lists, boat reviews etc.

According to the stats page there are Members: 142,862, Active Members: 116,399....so about 25k members who have not been on in a long time but are still registered.


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## GreenEgg (Mar 23, 2008)

camaraderie said:


> Brezzin...
> 1. Mods have no access to member records.


Can I ask a question?

How come I had to agree to this in the registration? 



> We reserve the right to publish information about you if you violate The Rules.


Now I feel violated.


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## sanctuarysam (Sep 16, 2006)

*laughing so hard, tears are welling up in my eyes..*



2Gringos said:


> One of the butchered phrases that annoys me is when someone wants to say that they do not care about something, and so they write " I could care less...."(about whatever it is)". They usually write it with some flippant observation, and end it with a preposition....but that's a different issue.
> 
> Well, if one says that they could care LESS, that means that they DO care. Not that they do not care. If you truly do NOT care, you would write " I could not care less". (Those who care, should be less careless with their 'care less'.)
> 
> ...


laughing so hard at "scuse me while i kiss this guy," i can barely see to type..
thanks for the much needed laugh.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

I avoid the "off topic" board, some very dangerous shoals in those waters, that way lies madness matey.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I see you've turned our resident Portagee into a Frenchman...boy are you in trouble. 


flyingwelshman said:


> It's not that my life is incomplete without new friends - I have plenty of friends and acquaintances in 'real life'. Which is not to say that I wouldn't enjoy (and virtually do enjoy) the company of many on this board.
> 
> The question was asked about the number of lurkers vs. participants. I was offering my opinion based on my particular experience.
> 
> And Jody - my point is that I have attempted some of those things (see here for example):


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Sure that's not the uniform for a ordinary seaman in the Portuguese Guarda Coastal ?


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

May be just a deja vu flashback, but didn't tenuki use the same portrait to morph Giu's head onto a few months back? It was about the same time he made the baby-Giu bobblehead.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

flyingwelshman said:


> It's not that my life is incomplete without new friends - I have plenty of friends and acquaintances in 'real life'. Which is not to say that I wouldn't enjoy (and virtually do enjoy) the company of many on this board.
> 
> The question was asked about the number of lurkers vs. participants. I was offering my opinion based on my particular experience.
> 
> And Jody - my point is that I have attempted some of those things (see here for example):


I remember that one, good job.


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> Brezzin...
> 1. Mods have no access to member records.
> 2. Not everyone who registers at sailnet does so for the forums. Some come for the store, articles, email lists, boat reviews etc.
> 
> According to the stats page there are Members: 142,862, Active Members: 116,399....so about 25k members who have not been on in a long time but are still registered.


Thanks Cam. I didn't realize it was for the store as well.


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## scolil (Mar 9, 2007)

I own a MacGregor
and I am landlocked

any questions?


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## scottbr (Aug 14, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> Nothing to ask? Nothing to contribute? Then why lurk??


Nothing to ask? I used the search and found the answers to most of my questions, being a newbie to boat ownership most of my questions have been asked many times.

Nothing to contribute? Well, I am a newbie so don't know what I can add to the experience on the board.

Why lurk? lots of ineresting info and people.

Quite frankly, this board is very harsh on new people that ask questions that have been covered before. Some can pass it off, others read the responses and hesitate to ask questions or even participate in a discussion for the fear of being slammed. I also made the mistake as a first time buyer ( according to this board) of not buying a "blue water capable" boat and bought a newer Hunter with in-mast furling  I certainly regret buying this boat after having over 30 nights anchored out and the 4-6 hours of sailing to get to and from the anchorages = 60 days of sailing +/- including over a week out cruising. This summer we're planning 2 weeks out for a cruise and I'll certainly regret it. 

There a several people on here that I enjoy reading the threads and info and the genuine and willingness to offer advise and help and I thank them for their enthusiasm and dedication. After all, its only a boat.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

scottbr said:


> Nothing to ask? I used the search and found the answers to most of my questions, being a newbie to boat ownership most of my questions have been asked many times.
> 
> Nothing to contribute? Well, I am a newbie so don't know what I can add to the experience on the board.


Scott, if you've got a boat and have 60+ days of sailing in here you are definitely *not* a newbie and most certainly *do *have something to contribute.

As many wise old members of this forum have posted many a time "the sea always changes so there is always something to learn" - and we can learn from your experiences too!


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Your welcom Scott...I try to rise above the rest around here and contribute the most...Again thanks for admiring my posts...


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

> After all, its only a boat.


Better be smilin' when ya say that!


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

ScottBR...who here told you that a Hunter was not suitable for cruising Georgian Bay and a blue water boat would be better? I'd rather have a new Hunter and all the ameneties. And for family cruising I don't have any issues with in mast furling either. You are getting good use from your boat and enjoying yourselves to boot so it sounds like you made a good decision to me.


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## tenuki (Feb 11, 2007)

Stillraining said:


> Again thanks for admiring my post


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## scottbr (Aug 14, 2007)

Cam, it's more the disdain for the "production boats", the BeneHuntalina or whatever the phrase is. A good example is the Hunter arch thread. No one specifically said the Hunter could not handle Georgian Bay, although it will produce some nasty storms that I wouldn't want to be out in any boat. I've spoken to a few others and they get the same perception and thus don't participate here.


We love the boat. I can easily handle it by myself if necessary, ( the rest of the family are still learning the ropes ), I've had it up to 8.2 knots GPS and consistantly hit over 6 knots in a fair breeze and I'm certainly comfortable taking it out in any of the Great Lakes.

I bought the boat, because we really enjoy being out on the water and as a stress relief from work. I don't need to stress over a boat. I bought new because although I do know how to sail fairly well, I didn't know the ins and outs of all the systems on a boat and didn't want to spend the summer doing repairs to an older boat. 

And like I said, its only a boat.  There are far more important things in this very short time we have here.


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## scottbr (Aug 14, 2007)

Thanks Hartley, we actually got 70 - 80 days of sailing including the day sails from the marina. We strated anchoring out early July and were out most weekends right up to CDN Thanksgiving Oct. 6, 7th.

Now if this #*%$ ice  would melt up here we could hit the water again.


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

Hey Scott, don't worry too much about the general attitude here. They like to pick on new guys. Heck, I get beat up on this forum almost daily. 

I think it's something to do with old, monohull dinosaurs feeling left behind by the newer brand of multihull sailors. They get grumpy and defensive when people keep pointing out how technology has moved on. They fear what they don't understand, and will bring up old sailing studies done at the turn of an earlier century pointing out that galleons were superior to polynesian reed multihull boats in a naval battle, or something similar. The old traditionalists resent the evolution of boat design and cling to the old ways as a nautical security blanket. 

I would think they would welcome a new monohull buyer into the fold, and indeed, some of them seem to be doing so in your case. They need the support, although that doesn't mean they have to like it.

Don't let the old retro-grouches get you down....start a thread about the superiority of the astrolabe, or perhaps how you can survive on a cup of water a day. Maybe the care and cleaning of linen sails. They'll come around.

As for that melting ice problem, we have those too! Except in our case, it melts too fast and dilutes the drink.

Now, watch em pick on me for a while....


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

2G,

I don't remember anyone picking on you.     
Too bad about the ice melting.


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## Alden68 (Mar 21, 2007)

That ice melting is horrendous! Why would anyone want to move to TCI and risk that?

Oh crap....did I just end in a preposition....wait a minute, what the **[email protected]#* is a preposition....


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## TheFrog (Oct 25, 2007)

*Why Lurk?*

I lurked for ~9 months here before signing up. Just reading the archives, the articles, the ongoing banter, etc. I am currently boatless, don't have a boat, and the lakes around here were looking like 1/2 empty bathtubs with a ring a the high water level. So, I get some diversion from work by following the posts, collecting knowledge for the day that I have the time and water to float a boat. I only post when I think I have something useful from my knowledge to add which is not often...

If there are any Atlanta area sailors out there willing to take me for a ride, send me a PM.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Scott..OK..I get it. I guess the problem is that the production boats are designed for one purpose and the blue water boats for another. There are real problems and tradeoffs in using one type of boat for the wrong purpose. This is compounded by the fact that using a lightly constructed coastal boat for blue water purposes carries a risk to life rather than just being a poor choice. This tends to give rise to dire warnings and overstatement especially when a newbie boater is considering a Catalina 27 for a world cruise!

And...let's face it, there have been some REALLY poorly constructed/designed production boat MODELS over the years...just as some blue water boats are notorious for certain expensive problems. These tend to give rise to statements like "all Hunters suck" and "all Taiwan boats suck" by those with rather incomplete knowledge. 
All I can say is that such generalized statements say more about the lack of knowledge of the writer than the quality of the boats being discussed! 
Anyway...thanks for the comments and enjoy the upcoming season.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

TheFrog said:


> I lurked for ~9 months here before signing up. Just reading the archives, the articles, the ongoing banter, etc. I am currently boatless, don't have a boat, and the lakes around here were looking like 1/2 empty bathtubs with a ring a the high water level. So, I get some diversion from work by following the posts, collecting knowledge for the day that I have the time and water to float a boat. I only post when I think I have something useful from my knowledge to add which is not often...
> 
> If there are any Atlanta area sailors out there willing to take me for a ride, send me a PM.


What state do you live in?


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

denby said:


> What state do you live in?


Read the last line denby.



> If there are any Atlanta area sailors out there willing to take me for a ride, send me a PM.


 Could be wrong, but last I checked, only one state has a city by that name.


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## TheFrog (Oct 25, 2007)

Yes, it is Atlanta, Georgia.


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## NCountry (May 25, 2006)

OK, so now I understand about Lurkers, Golfers and acronyms. BUT what I never did understand is why do toilet paper rolls dispense from the outside in. If it went from the inside out then the "product" would be pre-twisted in your hand as it was dispensed, thus eliminating some tricky manuvering just prior to use........~


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Hello, my name is Pedro Manuel Hoya de Francisco Pinto Lacerda Y Mello.

I am a lurker too...I lurk here I lurk there..I lurk evereywhere....(wherever they allow me to lurk)...

I now go back to reading the posts of the great sailors here....bye


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

Alden68 said:


> That ice melting is horrendous! Why would anyone want to move to TCI and risk that?
> 
> Oh crap....did I just end in a preposition....wait a minute, what the **[email protected]#* is a preposition....


What is a Preposition?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I just joined! haha


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

After lurking for a while that is...


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

2Gringos said:


> What is a Preposition?


That was very edumzkational thanks


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## Alden68 (Mar 21, 2007)

uuuuggghh.....that was too much like learning.

Thanks 2G's!

Post #133 is definitely a troll.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Alden-

Gui isn't a troll...he just looks like one.


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## scottbr (Aug 14, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> And...let's face it, there have been some REALLY poorly constructed/designed production boat MODELS over the years...just as some blue water boats are notorious for certain expensive problems. These tend to give rise to statements like "all Hunters suck" and "all Taiwan boats suck" by those with rather incomplete knowledge.
> All I can say is that such generalized statements say more about the lack of knowledge of the writer than the quality of the boats being discussed!
> Anyway...thanks for the comments and enjoy the upcoming season.


Agreed, kinda like a Ferrari, Chevrolet, Hyundai comparison.

I guess I really shouldn't blast the whole board for a few, and not take the opinions as personal. I have learned quite a bit from this board and I certainly could not have gotten on the water and out sailing as quickly as I did without info from this site. 

Gotta go, the ice is melting............... and the scotch is just about right


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## earl444 (Apr 1, 2007)

*confessions of a lurker*

I am one of your "lurkers". I read many of the posts and learn some things from them, discard some stuff also.

some reasons to lurk: 
(1) "I never learned anything while I was talking."
(2) (paraphrased) I would rather sit here and remain silent, than open my mouth and remove all doubt. 
(3) for me, sailing is a hobby, I enjoy it, I make mistakes, I do some stupid stuff that I am able to laugh at, I am not looking for the opinion or critique of others or for a grade. I want to continue to enjoy and learn and experience...Also, I am not planning to compete for America's Cup.
(4) eventually, some other poor soul suffers from the same problem that I have, he asks the question, and I get my answer, thus I lurk...
(5) if I discover some great secret about sailing that I can pass on, I will, meanwhile, I am content to lurk and learn


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## buckeyesailor (Mar 9, 2008)

Giulietta said:


> Hello, my name is Pedro Manuel Hoya de Francisco Pinto Lacerda Y Mello.
> 
> I am a lurker too...I lurk here I lurk there..I lurk evereywhere....(wherever they allow me to lurk)...
> 
> I now go back to reading the posts of the great sailors here....bye


Pedro........have you met Inga?


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## BoatlessBoston (Jul 27, 2007)

I don't have time to lurk. I'm too busy stalking owners of Alberg designed boats.


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

I wish I'd lurked longer before registering. 

I registered right away using one of my typical internet monikers (Ajari Bonten); then, having read about not having more than one identity, wished I'd registered with something more salty.

I would never reside on a site with more than one identity anyway; but after one or two posts I might have changed my name to something more site appropriate.

Oh well, I'm happy being who I am. This place IS a goldmine of information, even for those who never post. I'm not surprised by the number of "watchers" ( a more appropriate term, IMHO )


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## Watermelon (Oct 30, 2007)

It's certainly a bountiful goldmine of information. I'm usually logged in when I browse SailNet. I've posted here and there on various subjects. I enjoy reading, but haven't had much reason to post.  I've got a wee little boat (19' long) compared to most of you. But, I don't mind. One of these days I'm sure I'll expand my fleet, and will certainly draw on my knowledge I've learned here to go after the best boat for me, and cruise.


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

I lurk, therefore, I sham.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Watermelon said:


> It's certainly a bountiful goldmine of information. I'm usually logged in when I browse SailNet. I've posted here and there on various subjects. I enjoy reading, but haven't had much reason to post.  I've got a wee little boat (19' long) compared to most of you. But, I don't mind.
> ...


Wee little boat?? That ain't wee compared to ours! 

Like Ajari, I probabaly should have lurked longer - and then registered as a longer member..


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

> and then registered as a longer member


It's all I can do not to comment on this straight line.


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

I hadda restrain myself from commenting on that one, too.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

and then registered as a longer member



capttb said:


> It's all I can do not to comment on this straight line.


Having the same problem.


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## Watermelon (Oct 30, 2007)

Hartley18 said:


> Wee little boat?? That ain't wee compared to ours!
> 
> Like Ajari, I probabaly should have lurked longer - and then registered as a longer member..


Well, that's true, you do have a slightly smaller boat than I do. Hurray for sub-20's! 

I was thinking more along the lines of Cam's, CD's, and such with their larger boats with standing headroom in the cabin.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Well, when registered as a longer member that extra headroom is required.
Sorry, Couldn't do it.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

capttb said:


> Well, when registered as a longer member that extra headroom is required.
> Sorry, Couldn't do it.


I'm disappointed with you lot - tut tut, such filthy minds!!   

By the way, the extra beam helps too. Gives better access down below...


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

capttb said:


> Well, when registered as a longer member that extra headroom is required.
> Sorry, Couldn't do it.


Thats ok Cap, you tried.


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## WaterView (Apr 29, 2006)

I'll reply to the original post. I'm a lurker and I really enjoy the site. The two reasons I don't type in here is because I'm not really a sailor, I don't have a boat. And secondly, there is one member that I find very offensive and condesending and I don't want to hear from that member. He's a-know-it-all and has an opinion on every thing. EVERYTHING. So, I read and enjoy.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

WaterView said:


> I'll reply to the original post. I'm a lurker and I really enjoy the site. The two reasons I don't type in here is because I'm not really a sailor, I don't have a boat. And secondly, there is one member that I find very offensive and condesending and I don't want to hear from that member. He's a-know-it-all and has an opinion on every thing. EVERYTHING. So, I read and enjoy.


Waterview, just use the "ignore" button! You will see their name, but the post will be empty. Unless of course, I am that person and I am ALREADY on your ignore list. Then, nevermind.


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## WaterView (Apr 29, 2006)

LOL, No it's not you. I'm not against seeing replies from him, he does have a lot to offer but I'd rather not see his condecending posts.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

WaterView said:


> I'll reply to the original post. I'm a lurker and I really enjoy the site. The two reasons I don't type in here is because I'm not really a sailor, I don't have a boat. And secondly, there is one member that I find very offensive and condesending and I don't want to hear from that member. He's a-know-it-all and has an opinion on every thing. EVERYTHING. So, I read and enjoy.


You don't have to sail or own a boat to post here. We are still in the stinkpot stage. We live too far from the ocean to have a sailboat and I just don't think having a sailboat on Georgia lakes would be that much fun. No ocean access without trailering and more importantly no wind during the summer. So we would be stinkpotting anyway.

Of all the forums I have come across I like this one the best. I just don't have the time to be active. Wife, 4 kids 2,4,5,6, we own a laundromat, I have an IT job that for the next month and a half (and the last month) I can spend as much time as I want working ($$$), back in February we had 2 trees attack our house and it doesn't look like it will be fixed for at least another month. approx $50k in damage.

Don't let some other longer member keep you from posting. Just ignore them or skip their posts. There is just too much to read and keep up with here anyway.


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## JewelledJester (Nov 20, 2007)

*Am I a lurker?*

Does it count as lurking if I am reading constantly trying to learn everything i can until I take sailing lessons?


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Hay....When have I ever been condescending... 

I get logged in automatically...how much does Lurking status cost anyway?...I want to sneak up on some of you..cam I want an upgrade..


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

Condescending? I didn't think I was being condescending. At least I don't mean to be. I was trying for confrontational, perhaps a little combative, but it's supposed to be with a little bit of sarcastic humor most of the time. I like to generate some dialogue, cause I get bored with the old "this is the way you do it and that's that" attitude. Okay, perhaps I am a smartass, and possibly a troll, but condescending? That hurts.


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

JewelledJester said:


> Does it count as lurking if I am reading constantly trying to learn everything i can until I take sailing lessons?


I don;t think so; that's why I really prefer the term "watcher" to "lurker".

In my lexicon, a lurker is someone who doesn't even register; sort of a "troll wanna-be".

I think it's fine to observe and learn, then pipe-in when you have something to add.

Welcome, and well-met


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Hartley18 said:


> ... and then registered as a longer member..


I think that I found a new "Custom User Title"


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

eherlihy said:


> I think that I found a new "Custom User Title"


Glad to be of service!.. I think.


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## sgkuhner (May 5, 2002)

Every time I want to post a message, the website makes me re-check-in even though I just checked in earlier. So I think that when I come to the site and forget to check in or after I have made a post, my presence is counted as a lurker; ortherwise why would I be required to check in again if I want to post a second message when I haven't even left the site?

sgkuhner


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## buckeyesailor (Mar 9, 2008)

SG..... you make "lurkers" sound like a bad thing.......I can remember back when I was a young lurker...........yada, yada, yada.........


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

In OUR day, we hadda lurk uphill for miles...in the snow. Hell it was uphill both ways, come to think of it..


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

2Gringos said:


> In OUR day, we hadda lurk uphill for miles...in the snow. Hell it was uphill both ways, come to think of it..


Ok Dad, heard it all before. You forgot bare foot.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Was there even an internet back then???  


buckeyesailor said:


> SG..... you make "lurkers" sound like a bad thing.......I can remember back when I was a young lurker...........yada, yada, yada.........


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

Yep, yep, you young whippersnapper. When I was your age, we hadda lurk uphill for miles...in the snow, barefoot. Both ways. And carrying a computer. And we didnt have no fancy pantsy damned laptops. No sirree. We hadda lug Texas Instruments. And some of us had to lug IBM PCs. And stacks and stacks of 5 1/4" floppy disks. And I tell yuh, boy, the floppy disks were bygod floppy in my day. And they only handled 1.44 MB, and even that was wrong. Windows? We didnt have no steenkin' Windows. You had to learn PC or MS DOS, by cracky.

And Forums? Nah, you kids today are spoilt rotten. We didnt have no forums. We had to pay $ 30every month to get into AOL chat rooms. And you could only fit 21 people into a Chat Room. And it was all dial-up! I can still hear those modem tones warbling over my crummy little PC speaker...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

He's obviously lying...the original floppy disks were only 360 kb IIRC.... unless you were on an Apple, where they were less.



2Gringos said:


> Yep, yep, you young whippersnapper. When I was your age, we hadda lurk uphill for miles...in the snow, barefoot. Both ways. And carrying a computer. And we didnt have no fancy pantsy damned laptops. No sirree. We hadda lug Texas Instruments. And some of us had to lug IBM PCs. And stacks and stacks of 5 1/4" floppy disks. And I tell yuh, boy, the floppy disks were bygod floppy in my day. And they only handled 1.44 MB, and even that was wrong. Windows? We didnt have no steenkin' Windows. You had to learn PC or MS DOS, by cracky.
> 
> And Forums? Nah, you kids today are spoilt rotten. We didnt have no forums. We had to pay $ 30every month to get into AOL chat rooms. And you could only fit 21 people into a Chat Room. And it was all dial-up! I can still hear those modem tones warbling over my crummy little PC speaker...


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> He's obviously lying...the original floppy disks were only 360 kb IIRC.... unless you were on an Apple, where they were less.


(Lying?!?!? LYING?!?!?! Why, that no good, low down, snuff colored, sister pimping, father humping, back stabbing, sheep raping son of indiscriminate parentage whose mother was overly familiar with domestic pets and barnyard animals....thats just....just....condescending!!)

HE's obviously senile. The 360 kb floppies were way before online chat rooms, i.e. no places to lurk.

Unless he is claiming that he lurked on USENET newsgroups (late 1970s distributed system among Unix machines).


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

2Gringos said:


> Yep, yep, you young whippersnapper. When I was your age, we hadda lurk uphill for miles...in the snow, barefoot. Both ways. And carrying a computer. And we didnt have no fancy pantsy damned laptops. No sirree. We hadda lug Texas Instruments. And some of us had to lug IBM PCs. And stacks and stacks of 5 1/4" floppy disks. And I tell yuh, boy, the floppy disks were bygod floppy in my day. And they only handled 1.44 MB, and even that was wrong. Windows? We didnt have no steenkin' Windows. You had to learn PC or MS DOS, by cracky.
> 
> And Forums? Nah, you kids today are spoilt rotten. We didnt have no forums. We had to pay $ 30every month to get into AOL chat rooms. And you could only fit 21 people into a Chat Room. And it was all dial-up! I can still hear those modem tones warbling over my crummy little PC speaker...


Was there electricity back then?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Lurking was common behavior on BBS-based sites long before the AOL came along.


2Gringos said:


> (Lying?!?!? LYING?!?!?! Why, that no good, low down, snuff colored, sister pimping, father humping, back stabbing, sheep raping son of indiscriminate parentage whose mother was overly familiar with domestic pets and barnyard animals....thats just....just....condescending!!)
> 
> HE's obviously senile. The 360 kb floppies were way before online chat rooms, i.e. no places to lurk.
> 
> Unless he is claiming that he lurked on USENET newsgroups (late 1970s distributed system among Unix machines).


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

If a lurker was lurking before lurking was a term for what he was doing....

would that make a tree fall in the forest?



actually, come to think of it....if you define lurking as reading without typing, I have been lurking since I learned to read.


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