# yes another help me find the perfect boat....



## NegotiatedDreams (Feb 11, 2015)

so I have read several books and countless blogs and articles on the internet searching for the elusive "perfect boat". what I have gathered is, buying a boat is about finding not THE but MY "perfect boat". Ill be looking to buy in June I think (im planning my mid life crisis in my early 30’s because im impatient) 
let me answer a few questions I see yall commonly ask when one of these posts go up.
•	my intentions to circumnavigate in 2016-2017
•	my budget for the boat/gear/journey/supplies/fuel etc. every penny I have to spend on this adventure is 160K
•	I need a boat that the two of us can sail so im thinking in the 38-48 foot range. I understand that most boats this size if set up and handled correctly are safe so for lack of a better word I want a boat that is comfortable in seas. one we can cross 2 oceans in and we will still be a couple afterwards.
•	age is not nearly as concerning to me as condition. although id prefer not to look at anything much before 1980.
•	Speed is fun but im not looking to race, im looking to cruise so in the speed department ill take what I can get but its low on my list of wants.
•	I have been told at least one bathroom with a dedicated shower(separate room from the head/sink)
•	I am open to a fixer upper as well as a turnkey however my time to work on it will be a total of around 35 full days so even a fixer upper for a good deal I will probably have to contract out most of the work.
•	I don’t like a pilothouse. Prefer aft cockpit.
•	I prefer a deck material I can run around barefoot without burning the bottoms off my feet
Ive read all of the top picks and the lists upon lists. Here are a few of my favorites (I think?) yes, I know a bit eclectic of a list!

Cabo Rico
Fantasia
Tayana
Hylas
Hinckley Bermuda
Baba
Rival
Trintella
X-Yachts

just had the idea if I tried to give some personal specifications maybe id get a majority of votes for one, a few reasons or questions I have yet to ask myself or a few other models I hadn’t thought about….. Cheers!


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

NegotiatedDreams said:


> ...about finding not THE but MY "perfect boat".


Good that you understand that.



NegotiatedDreams said:


> •	I have been told at least one bathroom with a dedicated shower(separate room from the head/sink)


This will DRASTICALLY reduce the boats that qualify. A separate shower is relatively rare on boats in your size range. You can probably find at least 10 different boat models without this for every one that has it.

I would ask if this is really an absolute "must have." Maybe you should charter a boat that has a combined head/shower and see if you really cannot live with that arrangement.

A good place to find a lot of particulars on a lot of different boats is sailboatdata.com. You can start looking through various boats there, and compare the layouts, as well as almost all of the basic design parameters.

Good luck.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Hi and welcome to Sailnet. 

Obvious question ..... 

Do you already sail ? 

If the $160k is for the boat, her refit and the voyage you might need to come down a bit in your size expectations.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Hmmmm, are you trying to find a way to blame it on the boat if this doesn't work out?

_one we can cross 2 oceans in and we will still be a couple afterwards._



Welcome to SailNet.


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## Bill-Rangatira (Dec 17, 2006)

not sure why you are discounting 70's boats and including early 80's boats
early 80 fg boats had issues with sprayed fg and resin content


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

Hey Negotiated,

I think we can help more if you tell us more about your sailing experience. What have you done, why did you like it, anything about it you didn't like.


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## NegotiatedDreams (Feb 11, 2015)

like I am always told everything is a compromise. this is not an absolute but she has never showered on a boat before and doesn't like the idea of the combined bathroom. may take quite a bit of convincing


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Welcome to SN and best of luck on your future plans...

but I'm thinking that anyone who still calls the 'head' a bathroom is unlikely to be ready to circumnavigate in a couple of years... It sounds to me like you are both currently non-sailors, but I'd be happy to be corrected on that.

Your budget, as mentioned, is more appropriate for a 35-40 footer than what you're thinking now. Which, btw, I think is just fine for a couple. More manageable, keeps costs down considerably.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

I'll wait another page or two before chiming in. welcome aboard, NegotiatedDreams. I think you'll like this place, most of the other people here are quite nice.


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## NegotiatedDreams (Feb 11, 2015)

so I just wrote up a nice long reply and my internet explorer crashed when posting! *Sigh

~DenverDon
like I am always told everything is a compromise. this is not an absolute but she has never showered on a boat before and doesn't like the idea of the combined bathroom. may take quite a bit of convincing

~TDW
I "Learned to Sail" in 2007 when I lived/worked in St. Croix. I along with many friends were weekend warriors on a buddies 49' Beneteau. I caught the bug but was entirely too poor to stop working....so when I came back to the states in 2009 my time on the water was limited to the occasional holiday trip around the Gulf and a weekend here and there on the lake.

~White
in fact I have honestly been liking at late 80s models on for that exact reason, however when I am searching I always like to set parameters a little bit broader than what I am looking for.

~cape coda
as I mentioned above my experience level would be somewhere between novice and useful enough to earn my dinner. the majority of my time behind the tiller has been in my dreams.
lets tally it up:
time spent in blue water - 0
time spent owning my own boat - 0
time spent single handing - 0
certifications currently held - 0
unwavering desire - 110%
I have spent more than half a decade saving my nickels for this adventure and I cant wait any longer....come January I want to wake up living in my dreams!


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

At first glance I would say you are undercapitalized by a factor 2-3. What is your intended route? Via the great capes or the coconut run? Why only hold your relationship together for only two ocean crossings? Why not for the entire trip? Given your entire budget, a separate shower stall is academic as you most likely won’t have the fresh water to spare for showering anyways. Where are planning to start out from? Cali? We might be bumping into each other either in Mexico or Tahiti. You may also want to consider a Nordic 40 (or 44), J40, Sabre 409/42 or the Farr designed Beneteau 40.7.


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## NegotiatedDreams (Feb 11, 2015)

~Faster
I had typed "head" initially in my first post and I decided to rewrite it using "bathroom" as not to confuse the use of the term "Head" for my meaning bathroom and not actually just the toilet itself. it is tough to explain the shower being in a separate room from the toilet if I refer to the bathroom and the toilet as both "the Head". as you see below I used "head" to refer to the toilet in my post. clear as mud?

I have been told at least one bathroom with a dedicated shower(separate room from the head/sink)


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

NegotiatedDreams said:


> ~Faster
> I had typed "head" initially in my first post and I decided to rewrite it using "bathroom" as not to confuse the use of the term "Head" for my meaning bathroom and not actually just the toilet itself. it is tough to explain the shower being in a separate room from the toilet if I refer to the bathroom and the toilet as both "the Head". as you see below I used "head" to refer to the toilet in my post. clear as mud?


Ahh.. but I'm pretty sure that asking for a boat with a head plus a separate shower would have got the job done - esp amongst this knowledgable crowd - without you sounding like a rank newbie 



NegotiatedDreams said:


> I have been told at least one bathroom with a dedicated shower(separate room from the head/sink)


So be it... however as a 'priority' for a capable offshore boat, that has to be at or near the bottom of an otherwise rather long list..

Have you and your wife ever done a even a short strait crossing (say 25-30nm) in snotty weather? In a boat such as you're considering?

I applaud your goals and ambitions, I really do, but at this point I don't see it happening in your time frame.. not successfully anyhow. By all means buy your boat, tweak it, sail it, live it... and go when your confidence and experience allow - don't wait til you're truly 'ready', that may never happen .. but don't put yourself on a schedule at this point.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Yep ... agreed Fast. With that kind of budget the boat is going to be a fixer upper, at least to some extent. To get the boat up to speed and sailing skills to an acceptable level is probably going to take more than a year.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

NegotiatedDreams said:


> I "Learned to Sail" in 2007 when I lived/worked in St. Croix. I along with many friends were weekend warriors on a buddies 49' Beneteau. I caught the bug but was entirely too poor to stop working....so when I came back to the states in 2009 my time on the water was limited to the occasional holiday trip around the Gulf and a weekend here and there on the lake.
> 
> lets tally it up:
> time spent in blue water - 0
> ...


NegotiatedDreams, I have the answer to every sailing question you will ever ask.
Ready?
"It depends"

No matter what question you ask, that is going to be the answer.

i admire your tail wagging enthusiasm, and some broker out there is going to admire you boneheaded desire to throw every dime you have at your dream.

As I said earlier, other people here are nice.

I'm not.

First, stow your excuses. You have lots of excuses why you haven't sailed since St. Croix, 6 years ago.

They are all bovine fecallacies.
If you want to sail, you sail. Some way, some how. So if you REALLY want to sail...

Start there.

And start now. 
Don't start with "i am going to circumnavigate 2 years from now.... starting in January. for sure. i promise."

i have no idea what you actually have in the bank, what you have in liquid, lay -your- hands- on- it -today money, nickle and dime wise, but if you have $15k, take $10K of it and buy a 30 foot boat. Lots of decent ones out there in that price range.

And start sailing.
if you have $150K, still only take $10K and start sailing. if you are boat rich your are cruising kitty poor, and no one has ever cut a cruise short because they spent too LITTLE on their boat. You cna always invest more cash in your boat as time goes by, or buy another boat, but it is damn hard to pull cash OUT of your overbudgeted boat,when you realize everything cost more than you think it would when you bought your boat.

Look, lots of folks will tell you you are undercapitalized, your boat is too small, your budget is too small, you don't know enough, you're gonna die out there, you need at least $300- $500k to circumnavigate and every ASA and RYA and CYA course ASAP and a meticulous logbook and you know what?
They are all right...for them.
That is what THEY need, and that is either what they had when a) they did it, or b) what they comfort themselves with, to excuse why they haven't done it.

Frankly, you don't have enough experience to know what you need or don't need yet.

You are smart enough to know what you don't know.

That's good.

And you have enthusiasm. That is necessary.

Now you need a cheapass, ready-to-sail boat to help you figure out what you need to know. And, you need to know it NOW, before you spend $160K on more boat then you need, can handle, and can afford to maintain.

Romanticism will either get you killed or bankrupt you. The less money you have invested in an untested dream, the more money you have to either ease the pain or prolong the ecstacy, whichever is required.

i'm betting on sailing into ecstacy...but i'm not willing to bet everything on that outcome- you shouldn't be either. Placing all your money on a single bet is a heartbreaking dreamkiller, my friend.

Me? I'm no circumnavigator. I have no ambitions to travel in the wakes of Cook and Magellan. 
Now.
But when i was in my 30s, not THAT damn long ago, I lived on that _possibility_. Man, one day i was gonna do it, on a bigass boat and I was gonna...
and I wasted a schitload of years NOT doing it, but getting ready to do it, any day now.

And then I realized, phuque it, I am enjoying life on my boat no matter where i am. I bought a $5k boat and just started sailing.

There are 3000 islands and keys in the Bahamas alone. Gunkhole the Bahamas and then roam south down the thorny path can take 3 months or 10 years, depending upon your pace...and there is adventure and gorgeous women along the way.

Buy a boat, now. Start sailing, now. Start weekending, now, then start living aboard, then start short cruising, then start overnight passages, then leave the country, then ... if you REALLY want to gird the globe, you will, eventually, as a natural progression.

But if you just want to leave sight of land, that is perfectly okay too.

But do it. Starting now.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

BLjones can be a nice guy too.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

aeventyr60 said:


> BLjones can be a nice guy too.


Who knew ????


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## sandy stone (Jan 14, 2014)

I think a Morgan 38x has a separate shower compartment. We know a couple that sailed one from Florida to Australia, so maybe worth a look.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

aeventyr60 said:


> BLjones can be a nice guy too.





Faster said:


> Who knew ????


The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made.
Groucho Marx


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

sandy stone said:


> I think a Morgan 38x has a separate shower compartment. We know a couple that sailed one from Florida to Australia, so maybe worth a look.


Of all the reasons to not buy a specific boat, a separate shower has got to be way down the list.

OK so at home we can if we so desire have multiple showers each day but reality is that on a sailing boat you spend some five minutes a day in there. We do have a separate shower room in our girl but if we are moving around we use the thing for stowage and will shower in the main head. Disadvantage ? You have to wipe the head down after you have both showered. Oh dear, what a trial.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

* • I am open to a fixer upper as well as a turnkey however my time to work on it will be a total of around 35 full days so even a fixer upper for a good deal I will probably have to contract out most of the work.*

This to me was the killer. Not sure how you got the 35 day idea. If you have to "contract" out the work, then your cruising buck is not going to go too far. 
You will find out that most us have spent every waking hour for months on end, getting our boats ready to go. Once underway you will then again spend a lot of your time keeping it ready to go. If you don't like working on boats and fixing them in paradise then your dream may turn into a nightmare.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

The Jeanneau SO37 and 40 from as early as 95 to about 06 have a seperate shower, some have the head in the show compartment, with the sink next to it in the same basic area if you get a 2 cabin/owners setup. Tartan, C&C, Beneteau, Dufour, Hanse, to name a few others, also have this option. I personally prefer the models where the shower is truly separate from the toilet and sink! Many of these models are in the 75-140K range. Some already to go, including an SO37 here in Seattle for 99K. Altho personally, I would try for the low 90's. This one does have a deep 6.5' keel. I have seen a number on the east coast with the 5' keel for 5-10K less, which is normal for the used market generally speaking. Even tho the shoal keel is more expensive up front. 

As far as best boat......brand wise....... depends upon how much bling the wife likes. Mine is ok with some of the chevy/ford style brands. Others she needs the Cadillac or Mercedes brands........

At the end of the day tho. almost ALL boats are built to the same general specs, the extra cost is in the bling. Some cases like older swans, you get teak decks. but after 20 or so years, you pay a lot more, only to have to invest in repairing the deck at 20-30K as the core is rotted due to the screw holding the teak have leaked........A non teak deck boat at a cheaper cost, may be a better option! 

Marty


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## sandy stone (Jan 14, 2014)

tdw said:


> Of all the reasons to not buy a specific boat, a separate shower has got to be way down the list.


While I happen to agree with you, I thought it would be a refreshing change to give the OP a direct answer to his question.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

tdw said:


> Of all the reasons to not buy a specific boat, a separate shower has got to be way down the list.


I'll probably find it a page or two back in this sub forum, but I recall a thread where a poster asked WHICH boats had this option. It may be for smaller than the OP wants, then again, I do not recall what size etc.

But could be worth searching for that thread to come up with a list. But this option is pretty prevalent in the last 20 yrs or so. Even my 85 boat has the correct floorplan, but no shower or running water via a power pump due to age and size. 32' is the smallest I have seen that has a seperate shower from the head/sink area.

Only real specific reason I know this, is SWMBO wants this option, if not a solely stinky style option boat....ie no rags to drive it.........what is this freaken world coming to.......oh I better be nice, 9 yrs ago today feb 11!........

marty


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

sandy stone said:


> While I happen to agree with you, I thought it would be a refreshing change to give the OP a direct answer to his question.


Ooooh, passive/aggressive snark! I LIKE it.
Next time "refreshing" is on the shopping list, i am sure you will almost nearly for sure be contacted first for your valuable input.

Hey, how's it feel to catch instead of pitch?

That's what I thought.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/94526-aft-head-boats.html

SO had to go back to the middle of page 4, last post in november of 14, started in 2012........

Did not read it all, but I think it was aimed in the 28-32 or soo foot range. go read it, might have some good boats to look at!

Here is MY BOAT
SO37 in chicago.

Marty


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## NegotiatedDreams (Feb 11, 2015)

~George
it is so hard to determine by simply reading how much this endeavor might well cost. i was thinking around 80k on the trip and 80k on the boat/upgrade. i wanted to do the trip in 12-18 months depending on weather/funds/other unforeseen factors. i was thinking if we leave from the caribbean and make it throughout the pacific and indian ocean....by the atlantic ocean we will be a couple old salts ourselves.....ha ha ha! she is great (i honestly couldn't believe she signed up for this but i think she is secretly more excited than i am)
thanks for the suggestions, ill start looking into them!

~Faster
fortunately, all of you telling me to forget the shower.....is exactly what i was hoping for in posting here, not that i didn't want it. just that if everyone telling me this same thing it makes it easy for me to eliminate that from my list. who needs showers anyways?! ha!
she has never been in weather but we aim to change that shortly. i have seen a few force 4-5 storms but never the really nasty stuff.
she has done some live aboard chartering buy the few have been under ideal conditions(which at the time we were really excited about)

~BlJones
lighten up my friend! you're a parrot head! "it depends" SO TRUE! haha. boneheaded? no need for name calling.... I'm skipping brokers, i don't mind doing the work of tracking down email addresses of listed boat owners and contacting directly. and i said my budget for this adventure was 160K. far from every penny i have, simply every penny i plan to put into a special fund my "face your fears, live your dream" fund. my excuse for not sailing was building a career, other priorities, paying off my house, blah blah not excuses just other focus. now my focus is back on my passion and i have the means(at least i thought 160 was enough) to shove off. not 2 years, more like 10 months from now. the bit about boat rich your are cruising kitty poor makes a lot of sense. the difficult part is finding that balance.
i think you went soft in the second half of your message.....was that encouragement? a bit of reminiscence? haha. i thank you! i am in my 30s and i still have your once upon a time, conquer the planet attitude!now help me pick a boat!

~Sandy Stone
thanks for the suggestion. ill look into that one!

~aeventyr
the project I'm on i work 7 days a week (construction industry) and my hours are 6am/6pm so daylight to work on a boat will be at a premium. 35 days is a guess of all of my vacation, holidays, and time between end of the project and leaving shore. i thought for 80k i could reasonably pick up a turnkey older well set up boat or a much cheaper project and have enough left to pay for the major work to be contracted. as far as working on it myself, given more time free i would be more than happy to put plenty of sweat into it. as for while cruising i fully intend to spend plenty energy showing my boat TLC. (i currently do industrial automation and controls work and am a licensed electrician with quite a mechanical aptitude.) so honestly look forward to live aboard upgrade and repair work.

~Marty
thanks for the ideas. ill put those on my list hunt through. she doesn't need a cadillac when it comes to bling, for her I'm more concerned with one she will find less uncomfortable in heavy seas(relatively speaking) the deck can be made of whatever as long as it doesn't get tooooo hot(learned that lesson the hard way) in my limited experience. haha

~Marty
thanks for the link. I'm gonna go check it out now!


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

okay, he called me a parrot head. he's all yours.


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## NegotiatedDreams (Feb 11, 2015)

i do appreciate all of your time and sage wisdom (especially bljones). i have a list you have all given my of several boats to look at putting on my short list. id like to know what y'all think of the ones i listed, do they fit? are they feasible? will i survive the ocean? haha. are there questions I'm not asking? are there decisions i need to make to narrow down my search? whats anyones thought on how much of my funds to spend on what part of this endeavor?


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## Nias (Nov 15, 2009)

This page might be useful in your search:

Mahina Expedition - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising

And have a look at CS36T. Offshore capable, roomy, and comfortable boat that would fit your budget with enough left over for refit and outfit.


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## NegotiatedDreams (Feb 11, 2015)

bljones said:


> okay, he called me a parrot head. he's all yours.


you have a jimmy buffet song quote a the end of every post....would you prefer land shark?


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

NegotiatedDreams said:


> .... I'm skipping brokers, i don't mind doing the work of tracking down email addresses of listed boat owners and contacting directly...


If you're thinking about cutting the broker out of the deal on a boat that he has listed (and that you found thanks to the advertising that he paid for), do note that his brokerage contract probably guarantees that he get his commission anyway. In addition to violating his contract, it is also unethical (good brokers work hard for their commissions). I am not sure you would want to go offshore with all that bad karma.

If I have my boat listed with a broker and someone called me to try to cut him out, my response would be "call my broker." I wouldn't want to screw around with someone looking to cut out my hired expert so he can make a low-ball offer to me directly.

If you want to find a Craigslist boat or other non-brokered arrangement, that's fine. But if you want a brokered boat, you should work through the broker. Given some of the naive things you've said, you might be better served by getting a buyers' broker to represent you. He would probably be paid by getting half the broker's commission, so you'd be getting some benefit from that money.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

NegotiatedDreams said:


> you have a jimmy buffet song quote a the end of every post....would you prefer land shark?


Actually, it is a Hiassen quote, attributed to Hemingway, popularized in an Alan Jackson song borrowed by Buffet for his first hit in 20 years.

Boat recommendation- Spend $10-12K on a decent late 70s Catalina 30.


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## NegotiatedDreams (Feb 11, 2015)

TakeFive said:


> If you're thinking about cutting the broker out of the deal on a boat that he has listed (and that you found thanks to the advertising that he paid for), do note that his brokerage contract probably guarantees that he get his commission anyway. In addition to violating his contract, it is also unethical (good brokers work hard for their commissions). I am not sure you would want to go offshore with all that bad karma.
> 
> If I have my boat listed with a broker and someone called me to try to cut him out, my response would be "call my broker." I wouldn't want to screw around with someone looking to cut out my hired expert so he can make a low-ball offer to me directly.
> 
> If you want to find a Craigslist boat or other non-brokered arrangement, that's fine. But if you want a brokered boat, you should work through the broker. Given some of the naive things you've said, you might be better served by getting a buyers' broker to represent you. He would probably be paid by getting half the broker's commission, so you'd be getting some benefit from that money.


not looking to cheat anyone. to clarify, by saying "I'm skipping brokers, i don't mind doing the work" i mean just that i don't mind doing the leg work myself to find sellers. i don't feel there is anything inappropriate in trying to buy direct from a seller if i do the work to find them and broker the deal. the same as it is perfectly acceptable to buy a house without hiring a realtor.


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## NegotiatedDreams (Feb 11, 2015)

my apologies sir, i had no idea the Etymology of what i thought to be nothing more than a fun song lyric.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

NegotiatedDreams said:


> my apologies sir, i had no idea the Etymology of what i thought to be nothing more than a fun song lyric.


it's all good- I apparently need to add smileys to my posts in february. you still need a catalina 30.
if a separate shower is a huge dealmaker, buy an S2 9.2C- it has a bathtub.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

NegotiatedDreams said:


> not looking to cheat anyone. to clarify, by saying "I'm skipping brokers, i don't mind doing the work" i mean just that i don't mind doing the leg work myself to find sellers. i don't feel there is anything inappropriate in trying to buy direct from a seller if i do the work to find them and broker the deal. the same as it is perfectly acceptable to buy a house without hiring a realtor.


Yeah, sunshine, that little backpedal would pass survey if your original line hadn't read 'LISTED boat owners'. if it is listed by a broker, bypassing the broker is a ***** move.

no smiley.


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

What you really need to do is a HELL of a lot of research. Which sounds like you've started, but it doesn't end even after you buy. Gotta research how to fix/maintain things too.

Get ON the boats you are considering. See for yourself the layout, space, storage and anything else you feel is important to YOU. It's going to be YOUR boat so find what works for you.

Also remember, where ever you go in the world, larger boat means higher fees for everything. While you talk about 38+ ft. boat is what you want, you may start getting on the boats and find a 35 or 36 ft boat suits you fine.

You can look at pictures and ask others their opinions but it really comes down to you getting your butt on some of them to see what works for you.

While I would love to get a 36-40' Cape George Cutter, I feel I already got the perfect boat for ME at 27'.

Best of luck in searching for your boat.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> If you're thinking about cutting the broker out of the deal on a boat that he has listed (and that you found thanks to the advertising that he paid for), do note that his brokerage contract probably guarantees that he get his commission anyway. In addition to violating his contract, it is also unethical (good brokers work hard for their commissions). I am not sure you would want to go offshore with all that bad karma.
> 
> If I have my boat listed with a broker and someone called me to try to cut him out, my response would be "call my broker." I wouldn't want to screw around with someone looking to cut out my hired expert so he can make a low-ball offer to me directly.
> 
> If you want to find a Craigslist boat or other non-brokered arrangement, that's fine. But if you want a brokered boat, you should work through the broker. Given some of the naive things you've said, you might be better served by getting a buyers' broker to represent you. He would probably be paid by getting half the broker's commission, so you'd be getting some benefit from that money.


Entertaining story... I had one of my prior houses listed, for nearly 2 years. With 2 different real estate brokers... On the last week of my contract, I had a buyer come contact me directly (drove up my driveway), and asked when my contract expired. I stated that I was presently under contract, and it was totally my decision as to when and where my contract would expire. She persisted that she'd buy my house once it was off contract. I persisted and said my present broker had spent countless dollars advertising my house, and showing it to many tire kickers. That time was worth SOMETHING to them and that if she were to buy from me at ANY time, since she first looked at the house under contract with this broker, that even if I hadn't had a contract I'd be negotiating for paying their commission anyway. She was totally ticked off. She eventually bought the house, and paid the fees.

By the way, the last 4 boats I've purchased, had no broker. That being said, I contacted and dealt with many brokers in my quest to find this boat. I actually found all of them to be very helpful, useful, and willing to give me as much information over the phone as possible to help me make an informed decision. While I am sure there are brokers that aren't real forthcoming with information on problems with boats, I found these to be nothing but honest. I even had one that was unwilling to try to sell me a boat without a trailer (despite my insistence that I would be buying a new trailer as part of the deal). Honestly I think brokers provide a benefit to both buyers AND sellers.


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## NegotiatedDreams (Feb 11, 2015)

bljones said:


> Yeah, sunshine, that little backpedal would pass survey if your original line hadn't read 'LISTED boat owners'. if it is listed by a broker, bypassing the broker is a ***** move.
> 
> no smiley.


i believe you are reading a bit much into one word. would it be better if i used advertised boats? how else would describe it if you put your boat for sale on the internet? listed was the first word that came to mind.


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## NegotiatedDreams (Feb 11, 2015)

SHNOOL said:


> Entertaining story... I had one of my prior houses listed, for nearly 2 years. With 2 different real estate brokers... On the last week of my contract, I had a buyer come contact me directly (drove up my driveway), and asked when my contract expired. I stated that I was presently under contract, and it was totally my decision as to when and where my contract would expire. She persisted that she'd buy my house once it was off contract. I persisted and said my present broker had spent countless dollars advertising my house, and showing it to many tire kickers. That time was worth SOMETHING to them and that if she were to buy from me at ANY time, since she first looked at the house under contract with this broker, that even if I hadn't had a contract I'd be negotiating for paying their commission anyway. She was totally ticked off. She eventually bought the house, and paid the fees.
> 
> By the way, the last 4 boats I've purchased, had no broker. That being said, I contacted and dealt with many brokers in my quest to find this boat. I actually found all of them to be very helpful, useful, and willing to give me as much information over the phone as possible to help me make an informed decision. While I am sure there are brokers that aren't real forthcoming with information on problems with boats, I found these to be nothing but honest. I even had one that was unwilling to try to sell me a boat without a trailer (despite my insistence that I would be buying a new trailer as part of the deal). Honestly I think brokers provide a benefit to both buyers AND sellers.


thank you for your insight. this thread has gone a very different way than i hoped but i have gotten a lot of good info on things i hadn't given too much thought to. in the end i simply want what everyone else does, the right boat and if a buyer broker is the way to go than perhaps i will explore a broker after all. let me ask though, if you enlist the service of said buyer broker and then find the boat you decide to purchase solely on your own and without their help, are you then still obligated to pay them on your purchase?


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

With your busy schedule how would you find one anyway? There is more to it then just kicking a few tires. If you follow some of the other posts around here, you will find that most folks are putting considerable time and effort into the process. A thoughtful consideration of what you really need verse's what you want, will take up even more time.
Find a good experienced broker and accept that you are going to be paying for the service in your purchase.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

> SO had to go back to the middle of page 4, last post in november of 14, started in 2012........
> 
> Did not read it all, but I think it was aimed in the 28-32 or soo foot range. go read it, might have some good boats to look at!
> 
> ...


I updated the list. The inclusion criterion was only 30'-38'. Most of the boats on the list are not blue water boats.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/94526-aft-head-boats-7.html#post2572665


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

OK, a few thoughts...

If your partner has never showered aboard a small boat, I suggest you arrange for her to do so, before committing to a circumnavigation... While you're at it, make it a cold one... 

I'd also suggest you get her out in a Force 4-5 "storm", see if she has any issues with seasickness... Absolutely astonishing, how many folks don't make that simple determination, before embarking in full on 'Living their Dream'...

You really need to do more research re yacht design and boats, and narrow your focus... Any 'Short List' of perfect boats that includes both Baba, and X-Yachts, is laughable...

I think your timeline is completely unrealistic... Buying a boat in June (hardly the most opportune time of the year for buyers, btw), spending 35 days fitting her out for a circumnavigation to be completed by the end of 2017, well... that just sounds delusional, to me... ;-)

Finally, what the hell is up with virtually _EVERYONE_ seeking boat purchasing advice these days on sailing forums, doing so for a planned _CIRCUMNAVIGATION_?

I strongly suggest you have a look at Jimmy Cornell's WORLD VOYAGE PLANNER, and review the breadth of other options... You've not told us where you're located, or where you'd be starting from, that would be helpful in making any recommendations... But a 2 year circumnavigation is gonna be a pretty ambitious schedule in a small boat, you've really gotta keep moving... If you're in a place like the East coast of the US, for instance, seems those 2 years might be better put to use doing an Atlantic circle, for instance... Sorry, but this obsession these days with circumnavigating by so many people who have done so little sailing, it's completely baffling, to me... Especially, for those involved with a partner with minimal sailing experience, the chances are rather slim that she's really gonna relish the lengthy passagemaking, interspersed with comparatively little time to stop and smell the roses, that such a voyage entails...


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I've never been a jogger. I've always wanted to, but just too busy watching TV.

But I think I want to run a marathon next week.

Can anyone suggest what shoes I should buy?


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

My take on the OP is that he just doesn't have a firm grasp on what he doesn't know. As many of us didn't when we first started sailing. So he's asking questions.

There are some that come in here with full swagger on and attitude guns blazing. To them I think "Just do what you're going to do and hope your overblown ego keeps you afloat." I don't get that feeling here.


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## NegotiatedDreams (Feb 11, 2015)

Everyone,

thanks for all the time and responses! 

~Barquito
much appreciated (like the username)

~Jon
cold boat shower....got it! its been added to the list.
sail her through some good chop...that one was already on my list but it is a good point.
I know the x-yacht stays on the bottom of my list in case the powerball goes my way this week!! ha ha the baba was a suggestion and while I admit I haven't don't much research on it (yet) it seemed to fit my general ideas so I put it on my list.
everyone tells me my timeline is unrealistic but in the end, I can compromise on most anything but this one. we decided we want to start a family in 2018 and she is not at all open to the idea of having a baby on a boat. (not really sure I would want to do that myself) so if I don't leave in 2016, I might not be headed out to sea for 25 years 
I have 11 months to buy her. what time is the most opportune time? now? in the fall?
what the hell is up......hahaha I have no idea? I am young and ambitious and.....ok honestly I cant tell you why? I just have to! (then again maybe ill look into an Atlantic Circle as a backup plan)
I will certainly look at the planner you suggested.
I am located on the gulf coast traveling a lot between MS, LA, and TX. I would probably sail to the USVI and head through the panama canal from there. and onward

~TakeFive
so......Nike or Reebok?? maybe newbalance?


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Someone with a few minutes should find and post the bit about practicing to liveaboard while still in a house or apartment.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I think you have a fundamental problem with scheduling. You can't do the journey you want in 12 to 18 months (check the Cornell book mentioned); assuming that you would not want to take some time on the journey to enjoy yourself. A very fast boat could do it, if it held together, but your budget does not come close to paying for such a boat. I think you need to have a long chat with your partner (or just yourself) and see what your priorities are. Don't think you can do everything unfortunately.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

The fact that your 'schedule' is the only non-negotiable item is just plain scary.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

I think that most boats in your 38-40 foot range are sold through brokers. Brokers work for the seller and if the seller sells the boat privately while still under contract then the broker still gets paid his commission. If you employ a “buyers” broker then he will split the seller’s commission (think of it as a finders fee). Brokers will also handle escrow, taxes, documentation etc. Kind of nice not getting the nasty surprise that there is a lien that you have pay off when you document. Be wary of boats of your class on Craig’s List, Ebay, marina bulletin boards. Often they are brokerage rejects, tend to be over priced or have some other “issue”. I think of these more as project boats. But of course, you may get lucky and find the “rose amongst the thorns”. But be wary as there are many more thorns than roses out there.

So, I’m 16 months away from my personal start line and I already own a “turnkey” boat. Here is my final punch list:

Watermaker
SSB
Replace standing rigging (I’m planning on pulling the mast and work some mods while I’m at it.)
Viking emergency life raft
Solar panel upgrade
Pull and inspect rudder & steering gear (and paint bottom during that “last” haul-out)
Replace the PVC dink with a Hypalon one
Misc Stainless Steel mods
Misc cabin mods (lighting, ventilation, lee cloths)
Fold-up Bimini 
And a bunch of “minor” stuff

I would love to do all of this for under $10k, but for planning purposes, I’m doubling my budget. The point is this stuff is expensive and putting in 30 thousand miles plus going around the world is going to beat up a boat pretty bad so proper preparation is key.

Don’t sweat the pregnancy thing too much. Good friends of ours found themselves in a family way while crossing the Pacific. Jane had the baby in New Zealand the they returned to SF. They said it was a lot easier before RJ started crawling as he would stay where they put him.

I’m a New Balance man myself, but my recommendation is to find a comfortable pair of running shoes.


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## FirstCandC (Mar 26, 2013)

As a fellow novice who also has big dreams of seeing the whole world, I can see where you are coming from. Dreaming is fun. Especially when you are working for what seems like every single day. You just want to get away. But like the Powerball, it probably isn't likely to work out that way. 
BUT since we are are dreaming, why not a Kelly Peterson 44? Just gut one of the heads and put a shower liner in it. Check this site out and dream on: 1979 Kelly-Peterson 44 for Sale - Home


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

NegotiatedDreams said:


> ...
> everyone tells me my timeline is unrealistic but in the end, I can compromise on most anything but this one. we decided we want to start a family in 2018 and she is not at all open to the idea of having a baby on a boat. (not really sure I would want to do that myself) so if I don't leave in 2016, I might not be headed out to sea for 25 years ...


Your timeline is still unrealistic for the boat. But in the meantime, add to your research all the people who have had kids on boats. Look through this thread:

Cruising and Sailing with Children - SailNet Community

The other moderator, Cruisingdad, had two boys who were both born while their parents cruised and that was all they knew until last year. Read blogs. Look at the happy smiles. I think there's a book out now buy an older teen who grew up on a boat but I can't tell you the title.

It's doable. Don't add stress where there doesn't need to be any.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

We have two heads. It is really nice to have a second one when the one you are using dies and you do not have the right spare parts - and we have lots of spare head parts on boat, just not the one we need. We also have a separate shower compartment, but it is full of some of the crap you need to sail around the world. Not having a separate shower is not that big an issue in any case. There are often alternatives and water may be an issue in any case.


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

Couple thoughts:

You have an unrealistic timeline. Buy a Pacific Seacraft 37 and don't worry about the shower. As others have said, without a massive watermaker you can't shower. Get out on the water on anything - a Sunfish or Laser will teach you a lot about trim and balance. Go to seminars on diesel engines, marine electronics and systems etc. You need to know how to install and fix things yourself. If you install it you will have a much better understanding of it when it breaks. You will also have a lot more cash! Look for a boat that is solid but cosmetically challenged. Rigging is cheap; soft decks are not.

Stop listening to us - your not sailing!


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## NegotiatedDreams (Feb 11, 2015)

~killarney
I haven't read that book(not yet, but I ordered it) and I haven't sailed as you all have so have mercy on this next bit......here is my thoughts of a route/timing
January2016
USVI>Colombia>Panama>Galapagos>FrenchPolynesia>CookIslands>Fiji 
July2016
Fiji>Vanuatu>Australia>Indonesia>Keeling Islands>Mascarene Islands>SouthAfrica>StHelena
January2017
StHelena>Brazil>Grenada>USVI
July2017
HOME
(^^that should give everyone something buzz about)

~Faster
what I really meant (and poorly stated with non-negotiable) is I have most of2016 and 2017 to sail. if I miss that opportunity I may not get another for several decades. when I leave I hope to be sooner rather than later but in the end I do understand that the date we shove off will be when all the planets align and the timing is right.

~GeorgeB
after reading that im wondering if I should abandon hope for that elusive "rose among the thorns" and even keep looking on my own?....after all SHNOOL pulled it off 4 times without a broker.......just resign to searching for a thread on how to pick a broker! I did contact a couple brokers already about information on boats that others have steered me towards in the last few months letting them know I was just shopping (for now) and not to waste too much effort on a window shopper. (tough to tell them much else when im not even sure what i want)
honestly with several people advising toward using one i am thinking after yall are done educating me on what i need(want) ill look into a professional.

~Everyone
THANKS for the advise! i am considering it all, keeping extensive notes, and continuing my in depth research! (bet if i so much as mention kid on a boat she will can the whole trip)

PS DUE TO UNANIMOUS VOTE…THE SHOWER IS OFFICIALLY OFF THE LIST


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Negotiated, don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying abandon all your dreams, move to Montana and take up sheep ranching... You merely need to do your homework. How many “frogs” have you kissed so far in the search for your princess? Half a dozen? How many have you seen in person v. a telecom or email? Remember, the broker works for the seller. You just have to call him up on the phone. Think of it from the broker's perspective. How much time is he going to invest in some anonymous phone call or email vs. meeting someone in person? I come from a slightly different perspective as several of my close friends are brokers or owners of brokerages. If you were in Cali, I could put you in touch with an excellent buyer’s broker. Perhaps someone on the Gulf coast can recommend a good broker to mentor Negotiated through the process. What you need to do is get out there and start looking at a lot of boats. Learn what is out there in the Gulf Coast. Educate yourself on what to look for and what to look out for. Feel free to post links to any potential boats (as you might have gathered, this BB loves to kibitz.) I also know a good cruising consultant who can mentor you through the process but he is a fee for service guy whereas you're getting my advice for free.

Something you might want to consider is instead of the circumnavigating thing, go do the Caribbean for a year or more. You won’t need quite the bomb proof boat and your budget becomes much more realistic. The little green bits of land that are surrounded by water are much more interesting than the endless days of nothing but sky and water. Don’t get me wrong – I live for ocean sailing. MrsB on the other hand, tried it, bought the T-shirt and would much rather fly out and meet me there in the future.


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## Tenoch (Sep 28, 2012)

My two cents. $160k is more than enough. I would agree with those who say to buy something smaller and cheaper and get out on the water. Take your girl with you. You should be able to find out in a couple of weekends whether or not she's gonna like it. But the best advice i have is don't give up, if you really want it, you can do it. Have fun, and good luck.

P.S. check your route planning and schedule verses Tropical storm seasons around the globe....your schedule is not only aggressive but potentially deadly.


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## sandy stone (Jan 14, 2014)

Actually, just starting from the Gulf Coast and sailing to the USVI might end the trip for your SO. Google 'thorny path.'
BTW, we live in Slidell and are prepping for a trip to the FL west coast. That by itself is pretty time-consuming. Just sayin'.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Kaiser Gale Force 34 - awesome boat but harder to find. Nautor Swan 36 - great boat and a bit easier to find. Baba 35 - same as above but a bit slower. Your budget is realistic but only for boats under 40 feet, which for a couple is a perfect size IMO. If you get sick or hurt the missus has to be able to work the rig. It gets less realistic with larger sails and rougher weather. 
Keep up the dream. Folks here are not mean. They just don't want you to drift off into a lala-lala land.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Many many people have spent a decade happily cruising the Eastern Caribbean, Bahamas, VIs etc and not 'seen' it all. We've done the same here in BC. Many more have sailed south from here to Mexico with a Pacific loop in mind, and never get farther than Mexico..

Many wishful circumnavigators make it to SF, Hawaii, Marquesas and change their minds when reality doesn't match the dream.

But to be fair, many also do all of that and achieve their dreams - but not within a few months of deciding to go, and certainly not 'completed' within a couple of years. (misguided teenage record seekers aside)

I don't have a burning desire to circumnavigate, maybe that's why I don't get the 'urgency' that the OP is hung up on. But as is so often touted around here, any sailor's worst enemy is a 'schedule'....


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

sandy stone said:


> Actually, just starting from the Gulf Coast and sailing to the USVI might end the trip for your SO. Google 'thorny path.'
> 
> BTW, we live in Slidell and are prepping for a trip to the FL west coast. That by itself is pretty time-consuming. Just sayin'.


Yup, that's an excellent point... Probably best to leave anything east of the Bahamas for the final leg home... Either head to Panama via the Windward Passage with parhaps a stop in Jamaica thrown in, or explore the Western Caribbean - Yucatan, Belize, Bay Islands - before heading for the canal...

But even then, just beating out around Cabo Gracias a Dios could force an early 'Change in Plans'...

;-)


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## thesnort (Jun 2, 2007)

I think the more boats you board, the better sense you get of what will work for you. There are a lot of "ideal" boats in your range (personally, I'd go smaller than 38'; probably 34 or 35). That would save some money, and frankly, if you're in a storm at sea, you want something that will remain floating, and a few more feet won't make things much less miserable.
Get on board a whole bunch of boats and some will feel just right for the both of you.
Get the most solid boat, with a good reputation, and one in the least funky condition you can find at a fair price.


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## NegotiatedDreams (Feb 11, 2015)

GOOD MORNING EVERYONE! 

~GeorgeB
Thanks for the free pearls of wisdom! (with my limited budget I think I will have to be careful to keep my consulting costs to a minimum) Free is good!

~Tenoch & SandyStone
Caution noted! Thanks for the thorny path....I have heard how the Gulf can be like a washing machine. I have sailed the islands a good bit and the gulf coast....but not from the coast over to the islands!

~KrissCross
Just a very sincere thank you, nothing more. 

~Faster & Jon
Agreed only time and experience can tell if I will make it across the gulf and correct course from one island to the next for many months. Or if I will continue my quest to foreign lands. I wont let go of my dream however I am not so naïve as to dismiss the very real potential for an early “change in plans”


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

You will enjoy Cornell's book but it will put a spanner in your plans. As a for instance, your arrival date back into the Caribbean is in hurricane season. There are just places you need to stop to wait for the change of the season. Do your planning based on a few key places and don't worry about the in-between places, they take care of themselves. Also with such a tight schedule you will need to skip optional spots along the way. For example, you want to get to Panama from Florida or wherever you start and get going. Hurricane season 'officially' ends in the Caribbean on November 1 (there can be exceptions) so that is what you when leave for Panama. You don't really have time for a stop in Colombia so right to Panama. We crossed Panama in early January, but could have done it in early December if we were in a rush. You need to avoid the cyclone season in the Pacific which means a layover in either NZ or Oz - the later will save you time. The other option is to hide in islands near the equator but by the time you get that far you will need to fix your boat so New Zealand or Australia are the places to go. You want to get to South Africa by the beginning of December. We had to dodge a first ever November cyclone north of Mauritius, but they happen fairly often in December. Going along the coast of South Africa can be slow because you need a weather window before making the hop to the next harbour (90 to 270? miles apart). You don't take liberties with the weather in SA.

My biggest argument with your plan is that you are not giving yourself enough time to really enjoy the trip. We took five years and I think we would have liked one more year to spend in SE Asia (Malaysia/Thailand). What you have to realize is that you can't go to this area for a few months (or weeks even) because that will mean you don't make your critical date down the line - in that case you will be late for SA and you don't want to mess with that date.


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## NegotiatedDreams (Feb 11, 2015)

killarney_sailor said:


> My biggest argument with your plan is that you are not giving yourself enough time to really enjoy the trip. We took five years and I think we would have liked one more year to spend in SE Asia (Malaysia/Thailand). What you have to realize is that you can't go to this area for a few months (or weeks even) because that will mean you don't make your critical date down the line - in that case you will be late for SA and you don't want to mess with that date.


as much as I would like to be retired and have the means and opportunity to take 5 years, im afraid this adventure will have to be enjoyed at a bit faster canter....then back to the world of the 9-5 working for 20 years or so....then we'll consider circumnavigating so slowly that my family thinks we will never reach home 

I have read a good bit about the storm seasons and have a bit more to read. I understand that the weather dictates my schedule and not the other way around. however I just need to be sure im headed to the right place in the right season even if that means I have to leave some tropical paradise before I would like to.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Cornell talks about a two year circumnavigation schedule and a three year one.


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

You might be in luck, we are just getting ready to sell our tartan 41

Tartan 41 for sale ? Sailing with Kids - Caribbean cruising with children

It's completely blue water capable, turnkey and ready to go, over $120k spent on her in new refits, safe AND fast. She is forty years old, but in a 13 day Atlantic race, took second in class, kicking all that modern plastic butt.

We are currently on board in the carbbean, but could conceivably deliver anywhere on the east coast.


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