# Cabin Top Traveler and Main Sheet



## SpcAlan1 (Aug 31, 2009)

My Islander 30 has a cabin top traveler.My Catalina 25 had an end-boom pulley for the sheet and metal bar for traveler - which never moved.

So since my new boat has a traveler and main sheet combo, it is impossible to reach the main sheet ( without stretching the main sheet out 4-5 feet, and then I cannot 'lock-it-in' because the sheet's locking mechanism engages the sheet with pulling up. You have to be very close to use it.

Is this the norm with cabin top traveler/main sheets?
How do you supposed to sail by yourself if you can't reach/modify the main sheet?


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## knuterikt (Aug 7, 2006)

Your boat is probably not set up for single handing.

The traveler will improve sailshape if you use it.

You must look for a way to improve the setup.

Some pictures of your existing setup would help.

This is one solution called "German sheeting" i posted som pictures of my retrofitted solution a while back. http://www.sailnet.com/forums/genera...tml#post391262


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## SpcAlan1 (Aug 31, 2009)

Definitely not setup for single handling - I bette teach my wife how to 'ease-it-out'. 

Instead of re-designing the main sheet I think I will be better off just adjusting the whole boat to the wind.


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## JaredC (Dec 4, 2010)

SpcAlan1 said:


> Definitely not setup for single handling - I bette teach my wife how to 'ease-it-out'.
> 
> Instead of re-designing the main sheet I think I will be better off just adjusting the whole boat to the wind.


Not true at all.


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## SpcAlan1 (Aug 31, 2009)

Or holding the main sheet with my hand ( which I did yesterday ).


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## YeahJohn (Nov 4, 2010)

We have a cabin top traveler, the main sheet goes aft through a block and deck top organizer and then to a rope clutch. Simple single handing setup but not that cool for trimming main sail. I would love to have something a little more complex, but if you are looking for single handing ease this is it. So I assume that you have a cleat block combo, like a main cleat / ratchet cleat or a traveler car with cleat? Just remove it...add a single block instead and run it with a deck top organizer back to a single clutch... or run all of your lines aft and have a double or triple clutch on each side of the cabin with winches down-line if needed... I am not sure what you are looking for. This is the simplest solution and a common layout for fun sailing.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Best way to set up these types is as shown below.. either to a winch as shown or stoppers as described by YeahJohn


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## SpcAlan1 (Aug 31, 2009)

I will take a photo and post later.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

I went from a 30-foot racer-cruiser with a tiller and the traveller right in front of me on the bridge deck to a 33-foot cruiser-racer with deck top traveller. I knew I wasn't going to like the lack of easy adjustability and I was right. I have gotten into the habit of dumping the traveller in a gust, and that seem to work much better than trying to use the mainsheet.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Fast/Yeah- I'm guessing the issue isn't in the functionality of the current system but more likely that he can't REACH the current system from the helm. I have the same issue with mine in that I can't get to the mainsheet without climbing around the wheel. You can fix it by running the sheet further outboard (than Fasters diagram) and bringing the sheet back to a secondary winch further aft in the cockpit.


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## JaredC (Dec 4, 2010)

Harken sells retrofit traveler kits, including tracks that can span open space such as the cockpit...


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

T34C said:


> Fast/Yeah- I'm guessing the issue isn't in the functionality of the current system but more likely that he can't REACH the current system from the helm. I have the same issue with mine in that I can't get to the mainsheet without climbing around the wheel. You can fix it by running the sheet further outboard (than Fasters diagram) and bringing the sheet back to a secondary winch further aft in the cockpit.


Probably correct T34, but it sounds like he's got the cleat on the block at the traveler car, which makes things even more difficult, esp shorthanded. Inverting the cleat might help, but might also jeopardize an easy release.

Running the tail forward and back as you suggest will help, double end it and you've got the German system. It's certainly not practical to sail holding the sheet by hand all the time on a 30 footer; in certain conditions it's a guaranteed rope burn scenario.

I think any mainsheet system that relies on a winch is generally going to be slow to adjust/trim.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

So glad I did not move the Traveler to the cabin top on my boat.. the only thing it seems to help is to de-clutter of the companion way step not to mention cabin top travs are so very short in travel.no wonder the main sheet is needed more.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

deniseO30 said:


> So glad I did not move the Traveler to the cabin top on my boat.. the only thing it seems to help is to de-clutter of the companion way step not to mention cabin top travs are so very short in travel.no wonder the main sheet is needed more.


I think you might be jumping to conclusions there. All boats are different. My boat originally had a traveler in the cockpit. It was changed to mid boom sheeting and moved to the coachroof where the traveler is now 3x longer than the original.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I am with you T34C. Since I no longer race I prefer it on the coachtop. It alllows for a binim and dodger combo...full enclosure. The track is longer as you said. No guest is accident tripping it or tripping over it in the cockpit. Like you we have led it back to ther helm area via a side block for me when I single hand. Every one has different needs here.

Dave


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## SpcAlan1 (Aug 31, 2009)

Yes, the problem is that I cannot reach it.
I think the 'winch' idea would be tough if the wind picks up - would take too long to adjust.

I am going to do some research and see what i can do.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Spc.. pictures would really help everyone wanting share some ideas.. How to Use a Traveler - Using a Mainsheet Traveler

I've crewed a few times on boats that had cabin top travelers. The Loads on them are immense during any kind of stronger winds. The winch is needed to even move the car windward on some!


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

these come in very handy for all kinds of things. the traveler lines and jib sheets. I guess the lines could be even longer to control a cabin top set up. but the lines would be a mess for passengers.









And of course this is what everyone hates, I hated the location also but have realized when single handing it's easy to work the traveler.


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## SpcAlan1 (Aug 31, 2009)

I just posted a photo of my traveler.
Go to member galleries.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Lovely boat Alan!


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## SpcAlan1 (Aug 31, 2009)

Thanks Denise.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Another option if you do not want to use a winch, is to go to a 6-1 main sheet, slower to intake an out take the line than a 4-1, but easier in heavier winds. OR, do a 4-1 with a 4-1 micro. The micro gives you a total of 16-1. 

Also, depending upon the line ratio of the traveler, upping that from 2-1 to 4-1 helps too. Than running lines back to where you are. 

I have the same basic setup as Denise on my Jeanneau, with a 4-1 traveler, and the 4/16-1 setup. The micro is nice in heavy winds, the macro generally speaking, but at times even if reefed, you can not pull in the ain with the 4-1 to adjust it correctly, there the micro will get that last bit of adjustment. I have kicked a 6-1 for when it is just the wife and I also using the 4-1 with that. 

I do not find the traveler track hurts movement in the cockpit enough to want to move it to the cabin top. I know a few that have moved the traveler TO the cockpit in this spot or slightly farther back. Farther back to things do not get in the way of a dodger.

marty


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## JaredC (Dec 4, 2010)

SpcAlan1 said:


> Yes, the problem is that I cannot reach it.
> I think the 'winch' idea would be tough if the wind picks up - would take too long to adjust.
> 
> I am going to do some research and see what i can do.


If you have your rig balanced correctly, you shouldn't need to dump the sheet or traveler in a gust (except in really, really heavy air). The boat may heel more, but it shouldn't round up.


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## YeahJohn (Nov 4, 2010)

I understand the argument when it comes to tuning the sails and sail shape because I think a cabin top travler can be a little to basic with not enough options. I don't get the thought behind wanting to imidiatly dump your sails via the main cleat. Its helpful in a day sailor so you don't tip over but on a keel boat you should just set your sails an go for miles at a time. If your wife starts getting nervous turn off the wind a bit or reef your sails.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I just know, after being a few boats and getting stuck with "traveler" duty it was not enjoyable and damn hard work if the wind was up. 

Could it be the shortness of the mainsheet line in relation to the blocks making it difficult? I know to gain full advantage a line has to be almost completely around a block? Then, some have 3 blocks on the boom like Catalina.


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## SpcAlan1 (Aug 31, 2009)

I just posted a photo of my cockpit and traveler...
let me know what you think about the setup.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Here's the pic










The problem is definitely the height and location of your mainsheet cleat. Rearranging to something like the picture I posted earlier will at least get your cleat to the back of the cabintop much nearer to hand, and at a better angle to be able to readily engage and disengage the cleat. While you're at it you might even be able to add a part for more mechanical advantage.

It will also allow you to find a better place to store your mainsheet tail rather than hanging in the companionway all the time.

Since you have no dodger, and if you have no plans for one, I'd seriously look into relocating the traveller at the forward end of the cockpit, across the companionway (or possibly even better immediately in front of the binnacle... that would interfere less with comfortable seating in the forward cockpit). There are downsides to these ideas too, but then you wouldn't need to run things forward and back and could use a similar tackle setup - but the cleat would be in the cockpit rather than halfway to the mast.

This is, though, a fairly big project as it means relocating the sheet attachment point to the boom too - and remounting the traveller has it's challenges as well... with an aft-in-cockpit traveller you may well be able to go right to end-of-boom sheeting.

Spending some money on a good, bearing block low friction tackle will be another huge improvement.

The other half of your issue is the poor access to the traveller car adjustment... that too would be addressed by relocation.


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## SpcAlan1 (Aug 31, 2009)

Wow, thanks for your great review to my problem with the main sheet.
I am deciding on what to do and how to do it, and will be taking your ideas into consideration.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

By far the simplest thing would be to rerun your tackle forward to the gooseneck down to the deck and back along the cabintop. You could also bring the traveller control lines aft to the back edge of the cabintop, requiring 3 new camcleats mounted appropriately. However this still leaves everything essentially out of reach from the helm. (A tiller would be better in this case!)

Moving the traveller will work and produce a more practical arrangement, but you have to make decisions as to how much you want to interfere with movement in/out of the cabin, seating and moving around the cockpit.

Also your new location needs to be accessible from below in order to properly back up the installation so it will take the loads safely. It looks like your traveller would have to bridge the gap between the seats unless you have a bit of a bridge deck forward. Your existing traveller may not be the best fit in this case (though it can obviously bridge that gap)a longer one might work better.

If you go this route maybe check at consignment marine stores for some more economical alternatives.. You can easily spend close to a boat buck ($1K) on a NEW top notch traveller/control lines/mainsheet setup. And while this will likely be a deterrent, in reality you'd never regret it.

Oh - btw - please create a photobucket acct or find some other way to direct post your pictures.. our gallery is not the most convenient way to do this.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

*double ending the main sheet*

I don't have a picture, sorry, but I'll try and describe a solution we are using to allow main sheet adjustments at the helm, with a main sheet/traveller on the coach roof.

We double end the main sheet. It is actually one continuous line, one end terminates forward, like in the pictures posted, to a winch on the coach roof, the popular setup on today's cruising boats. We use this if there is crew interested in trimming the main.

The other end heads to a turning block near the mast, to a block on the coach roof (headed aft on starboard in our case) to a block on deck that fair leads to a secondary winch at the helm. Yea, I know, probably hard to picture. But with this setup, I can reach and adjust the main on a secondary, and the jib on primaries. This allows for easier single handing.

It's a bit of spaghetti, but we like it and it works well for us. We added brakes on either end of this line so you can control the main from either location and fix the other. You cannot of course adjust the traveller from the helm, but at least you can easily get the main sheet.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

JaredC said:


> If you have your rig balanced correctly, you shouldn't need to dump the sheet or traveler in a gust (except in really, really heavy air). The boat may heel more, but it shouldn't round up.


Say what? Certainly not my experience...are you suggesting, when you have this correct balance at 16 knots breeze, the boat stays happily on track as the wind rises to 22 knots? You have to ease the main or reef the main to re-balance for the stronger wind, or up you go.....


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## JaredC (Dec 4, 2010)

Faster said:


> It looks like your traveller would have to bridge the gap between the seats unless you have a bit of a bridge deck forward. Your existing traveller may not be the best fit in this case, a longer one might work better.


He should definitely not try to move his existing traveler to the cockpit, as it would probably not take the loads involved in spanning the cockpit. I'll bet you a $20 it would fold right in half with the first puff.

As I said before, Harken (and probably others) make track that is designed and engineered to span open space such as the cockpit. Use the right stuff, even if the right stuff is not the stuff you already have.


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## JaredC (Dec 4, 2010)

sailingfool said:


> Say what? Certainly not my experience...are you suggesting, when you have this correct balance at 16 knots breeze, the boat stays happily on track as the wind rises to 22 knots? You have to ease the main or reef the main to re-balance for the stronger wind, or up you go.....


If you have the rig tuned correctly for the conditions (gusty, steady, whatever) the boat should not round up in the puffs. It will heel more, but should hold its course with some helm correction.

If the conditions change, you will need to make some adjustments. A puff is not a change in conditions - a puff IS the conditions. Breeze _building_ from 16 to 22 knots is a change in conditions.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

JaredC said:


> If you have the rig tuned correctly for the conditions (gusty, steady, whatever) the boat should not round up in the puffs...


The fact is there is no correct setting for gusty conditions...


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## JaredC (Dec 4, 2010)

sailingfool said:


> The fact is there is no correct setting for gusty conditions...


I guess we'll have to disagree on that.


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## YeahJohn (Nov 4, 2010)

I guess that's for another thread =) Back to the rigging.

The least expensive option would be to replace the cleat on your traveler car with a block and run the main sheet back to the mast to your blocks at the base of the mast and then out to a deck organizer then into that clutch on your cabin top. You should have tackle in place it appears at some point someone changed your rigging from the intended design. You have a double clutch and a winch on your cabin top that my guess is you are only using for halyards to pull your main and head (if you have a furler that is wasted clutch space).

Another user described a two speed setup. I would go two speed for ease of use. You can get a harken pre rigged two speed sheeting system for $500. The user mentioned that he had one line my guess the main running to the cockpit and the trim sheet remaining off the boom for on the fly adjustment. I personally would run them both from the mast blocks threw the organizer and to a double clutch. You can even add clutches or get a triple clutch or go with a triple on both sides.

Here are some two-speed systems... Harkenstore Product Category


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## JaredC (Dec 4, 2010)

The double-ended sheet is a cool idea. Some racing boats use a similar rig (Farr 40 being one) with a winch on either end, port and starboard. You do have to be careful not to run out of sheet at either end...


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

I moved my cabin top traveler to put in a dodger. Mid boom travelers are a good thing for racing as they act as a vang. They more heavily load the boom however. If you're crusing they keep the sheets of the cockpit , less to tangle up the crew


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## SpcAlan1 (Aug 31, 2009)

I think I am just going to stay where I am at with the traveler - I don't need anymore holes in the boat.

But the running of the lines is a consideration.


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## YeahJohn (Nov 4, 2010)

Yeah. I would at least run the main sheet back to the mast and the out to the clutch. It took me some time getting use to the fact that I can only bring in the main and not let out the main with out getting up and releasing the clutch. If you are to worried about it in trying conditions you can always leave the clutch open and run from the winch. Ultimately it is not a hi-tech racing setup, but it is a pretty common rigging standard these days and has been sense the 80's. It also allows you to set the main sheet next to you at the helm. The only benefit of the two speed is that in wind it is easier to trim. I would also try and google images of your boat and see how others have it rigged. Moving the traveler is not a good idea, rig it with in the way it was built to be rigged and learn how to sail the boat with that rigging, versus trying to adapt it to what your are comfortable with.


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## SpcAlan1 (Aug 31, 2009)

Agreed.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Waltthesalt said:


> I moved my cabin top traveler to put in a dodger. *Mid boom travelers are a good thing for racing as they act as a vang. * They more heavily load the boom however. If you're crusing they keep the sheets of the cockpit , less to tangle up the crew


Any mainsheet setup when hard on the wind has a vanging effect. However no mainsheet can possibly have any vanging effect once the sheets are eased - and that's when the vang is most critical.

Don't make the mistake of assuming you won't need a vang because you have mid boom sheeting.



SpcAlan1 said:


> I think I am just going to stay where I am at with the traveler - I don't need anymore holes in the boat.
> 
> But the running of the lines is a consideration.


Probably your best bet - certainly the easiest and least expensive mod and the improvement would be considerable. You could probably avoid the cost of a clutch and just use a good cam cleat for the mainsheet on the cabin top - put it right at the back edge of the cabin so you won't chafe the gel coat when you're trimming.

As I mentioned before while you're at it, add two more and run your traveller adjustment lines aft as well.


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## SpcAlan1 (Aug 31, 2009)

I have a normal vang, along with another smaller one in front of it.


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## JaredC (Dec 4, 2010)

Faster said:


> Don't make the mistake of assuming you won't need a vang because you have mid boom sheeting.


Oh, boom vang, your use is so misunderstood. This post should be highlighted in yellow or something. Truth.


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## Robert Nelson (Sep 29, 2016)

SpcAlan1 said:


> I just posted a photo of my cockpit and traveler...
> let me know what you think about the setup.


I own a Endeavour 32 and my main sheet bridge is in bad shape. Where can I find the parts like what you have in the photo? I have never had to purchase something like this. Any other boat part I can seem to find but this. :-(


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

Has your traveler been moved to the cabin top, or is it still at the companionway?

Seems if it is at the companionway you should just be able to get I-beam track:

HARKEN 32mm Big Boat High-Beam Variable Hole Spacing Track | West Marine


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Robert Nelson said:


> I own a Endeavour 32 and my main sheet bridge is in bad shape. Where can I find the parts like what you have in the photo? I have never had to purchase something like this. Any other boat part I can seem to find but this. :-(


This is a five year old thread and the person you asked the question of has not posted here in three years. So I wouldn't expect an answer.

That said, Garhauer (garhauermarine.com) is a great source of this kind of hardware. They will modify their standard components to fit your specific installation and their prices are very reasonable.


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## Robert Nelson (Sep 29, 2016)

Barquito said:


> Has your traveler been moved to the cabin top, or is it still at the companionway?
> 
> Seems if it is at the companionway you should just be able to get I-beam track:


The traveler had been on the cabin top. It is beyond repair. I will most likely be moving it back to the companion way track. I will start a new thread on some of questions I have.


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## roverhi (Dec 19, 2013)

With rigid/mast to boom vangs, the advantages of a a cabin top traveller are minimal. Seems they originally were moved to the cabin top with the advent of IOR mandated short mainsail foot and resulting boom. On the cabin top, the traveller can maintain proper sail control by being able to use the traveller over a wider traverse of the boom. They also get the mainsheet tackle out of the cockpit where it can interfere with dodger and/or bimini but actually handling the sheet and traveller means having to wherever the control lines are located and that's not at the helm. Have lived with the traveller on the bridge deck and didn't have a problem. Made it easy to control the traveller and mainsheet while steering the boat. Also like to be able to grab it for support when coming up out of the companionway.

On current boat could not get to the mainsheet while at the helm. That made for some uptight situations in SF Bays gusty winds, the boats nasty habit of uncontrollable round ups in gusts, and sailing close to bridge towers when passing under the bridge. Changed the boat to a tiller and now can control the mainsheet while steering. Feel that ability to control the mainsheet from the helm is a very important safety feature.


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