# Does anyone work on the Internet while sailing?



## Hawaiigirl (Jan 3, 2012)

Hi...I cannot retire right now and probably never will be able to...I accept that...I would like to know if it is possible to be a cruiser and take care of a web business at the same time? Does anyone do this? I am so new at this lifestyle....


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Hawaiigirl said:


> I would like to know if it is possible to be a cruiser and take care of a web business at the same time?


Quite a few do, but mostly while in port otherwise it can get expensive.


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

Check out the Jan 2012 issue of Cruising World, page 53. The article is titled At Home and at Work, Afloat. Some guy in advertising describes how he conducts business while cruising.
You might need to join the site, but here is a link to the article:

Living Aboard: Onboard Office | Cruising World


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## Hawaiigirl (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank you Slayer  I will definitely check it out...and yes..I think we will go from port to port anyway...how does a person do Internet out on the ocean? Satellite?


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

The Mods here probably do... but I dont know if you would call it _work_...


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

I was able to telecommute during our 3 month cruise in 2010. I know several people with this goal.


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## robinhood007 (Jan 4, 2012)

Hi
interesting thread i have never


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Hawaiigirl said:


> Thank you Slayer  I will definitely check it out...and yes..I think we will go from port to port anyway...how does a person do Internet out on the ocean? Satellite?


You can access email through satellite, SSB, Ham (no business permitted), but web surfing is out the question - way too slow.


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## Undadar (Mar 24, 2011)

H'girl,

This is a question in which many of us are very, very interested as it is the key to being able to "afford" a 'sailing life'. Obviously, that means different things to different people. To me, it is the ability to work from my boat no matter where it is anchored (but not while at sea). I have researched the topic and have found the same thing everyone else has found and reported. That is: predictable, reliable, affordable broadband Internet access is not available 'everywhere'. For me, "everywhere" is the east coast of the US and the entire Carribean. "Affordable" is less than $250 per month (unlimited data and at least 256k speed).

I think most of us find it hard to believe that reasonable quality satelite Internet (256k-ish) is not available at a reasonable price but it isn't. There are options but they all add up to thousands of dollars per month for what most of us would consider "typical" data volume. None of us want to believe that so we go off and do our own research (and eventually come to the same conclusion).

I've talked to quite a few cruisers that report Wifi is available in many anchorages but certainly not ALL (within the geographic area listed above) and it is not always reliable or 'fast'.

The options that that seem to exist right now and the approach that I am planning for is (in order of preference):

Open Wifi.
Purchase Wifi Access.
Mobile Broadband here in the US (3G/4G).
Obtain a local cellular data card/plan (outside the US).
Internet cafe.
Sailmail (text email via SSB).

I have the Wirie for longer range Wifi.

The plan is to use the local radio net for info on Wifi, hope for the best, and move to the next anchorage if necessary. I know, this is not a great plan for conducting business. I should note that I have no first hand experience with any of this (outside the US).

Obviously, the "needs" and resources of each person vary so it is hard to speak in absolutes on topics such as this.

Hth,


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

How much money do you plan on making? Only asking as it defines the relative "expensiveness" of service. link to a relative article.... 22 bucks per mb if the pricing is still timely... pretty rich for blogging and most telecommuting, but if you are trading with the bankroll of the shah of iran maybe cheap.... 
SatCom Upgrades | Yachting Magazine


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Yes. Good WIFI the key. maybe not able to do long passages, but coastal cruising easy. Was also commuting to Japan and leaving the boat in a marina in Asia. Sailing and working off the internet in remote anchorages, boy did i have the last laugh. being laid off wasn't that bad either....now I can just tease my friends about sailing and NOT working....


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

What do you need to do on the Internet? There is huge difference between strictly accessing email and needing to surf, watch videos, access remote mainframes via VPN, etc.

In season, both my wife and I will work on the boat a bit on Fri and Mon. Mine is almost strictly email, with the need to edit or create a document. Hers requires that she can access her office via VPN. 

I now get away with an Ipad and can easily use either the marina wifi or cell network 3G access almost anywhere. As Murphys Law would have it, whenever I find something time critical, the marina wifi acts up. It's either buggy or just slow, which I suspect is a symptom of many users accessing it at once. I often find myself switching to 3G which has never been down and perfectly fast for email.

The iPad itself has become an incredible piece of marine technology. I have chart apps, gps, entertainment, radio, movies, email, etc, etc.

My wife has to use her office laptop for VPN and connect to the marina wifi. However, it would be possible to get her a cell receiver for an additional subscription. She just tries harder to avoid work on the boat.


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## LauderBoy (Mar 15, 2010)

Hawaiigirl said:


> Hi...I cannot retire right now and probably never will be able to...I accept that...I would like to know if it is possible to be a cruiser and take care of a web business at the same time? Does anyone do this? I am so new at this lifestyle....


Ah yes, the "I wanna be in the middle of nowhere and still have internet" request :laugher

Here's how it shapes up. On land in remote areas you can get land based satellite pretty reasonably in the 200-1k price range. I have a friend in Afghanistan I'm chatting with right now with such a setup who uses it to download the TV shows from the states he likes to watch.

Once you get offshore you lose access to those birds. You have to use marine based satellite providers and they're just not interested in the low end market. I know because I work for a company that installs this equipment on ships. The price at this level is 7-15k for the hardware and $10 a MB for the traffic. Speeds are slow to decent, around 256k is average. Reliability is good. If you're day trading a few million shares a day, this is the route to go.

But for the rest of us mere mortals you're left with wifi and 3G/4G. Wifi will be cheap, fast, and available at most marinas and quite a few harbors. It'll also be unreliable because the people that run marinas don't know anything about internet technology and the guys that actually own the equipment(Yachtpals and Beacon wifi) really don't seem to care if their equipment isn't working right.

3/4G works very well, though that'll depend on the area, but can have caps depending on your provider and location. I use Verizon in a 3G area and have a 10G cap. So it's great for surfing, video games and doing business, but don't try watching Star Trek on Hulu over it. You'll burn up your data cap.

Personally I use both wifi and 3G/4G with a wifi router that let's me switch between the two as needed.

Equipment and costs:

Rogue Wave Wifi antenna($300-400): Rogue Wave | Wave Wifi, the #1 Name in Marine Wifi, Yacht Wifi, Marina Wifi & Wireless Internet
Verizon UML290 3G/4G Modem($250), I also picked up a straight 3G modem off of ebay for $10 as a backup. If you're not in a 4G area, just do this.
Outdoor antenna for the 3G/4G modem($100): 9.5" Full Band Outdoor Omni 3G/4G Antenna (Adapter Cable Sold Separately) [CM4GLTEACCELLKIT] : 3Gstore.com
My MBR1400 wifi router which links together all of the above($340): CradlePoint MBR1400 3G/4G Router (MBR-1400), Includes WiFi as WAN Firmware 3.4.0 [MBR1400] : 3Gstore.com

My Verizon contract is about $100 a month with taxes and fees while my wifi internet at the marina is free.


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## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

When out for more than a few days I will send myself an email with attachments I may need and work when at a marina with free wifi or go to an internet cafe. Most marina internet wireless connection don't have enough bandwidth for more than a handful of heavy users.

Cell phone on silent and computer off while sailing.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Why not just get a MiFi wireless router and be done with it.

~$50 for the access point, and ~$80 per month for 10GB (This price per GB is ridiculously high -there is no reason for it, other than because they can... it would be great if Wireless access were *NATIONALIZED *- but I digress)...


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## Hawaiigirl (Jan 3, 2012)

That is what I was thinking...expensive...I am an artist...not a starving one but I certainly do NOT want to become one...ha ha!!!! How about the mail service? I could go snail mail...


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## way-happy (Oct 14, 2011)

Its a wonderful world to live in where you can make money online while sitting on a sailboat in a beautiful anchorage off some exotic shore.

Points to consider based on experience:
If you are dealing with deadlines then it can be stressful counting on someone else's wifi. It may or may not work when you need it, and you may or may not be able to make it to an anchorage or marina with wifi by the time you need to get online. If you are just blogging then this is no big deal as you can schedule your posts in advance, but if you have production deadlines and skype meetings, then you have to get there early and make sure you have the connection ironed out the day before you need it, or else you'll be stressed.

Another major concern (and one that has prompted me to start consulting in this area) is security over public wifi. I know too many cruisers that log into their online businesses and check their bank accounts and order things from amazon or defender over open unsecure public wifi in who-knows-where. If you are going to rely on unsecured and unknown wifi, you'd better be smart and take some security precautions, or else be prepared to have someone steal your identity or money or accounts, etc.

Either way, yes, it can be done and is a joy when it all works out alright, and if you don't protect yourself adequately you could be in for one hell of a long headache.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

way-happy said:


> I know too many cruisers that log into their online businesses and check their bank accounts and order things from amazon or defender over open unsecure public wifi in who-knows-where.


Aren't these sorts of connections usually encrypted anyway?


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

*(not) Downwardly mobile artist*



Hawaiigirl said:


> That is what I was thinking...expensive...I am an artist...not a starving one but I certainly do NOT want to become one...ha ha!!!! How about the mail service? I could go snail mail...


Generally snail mail is an alternative, although it is quite slow. You have access to UPS/Fedex/DHL but the cost can be quite high and not as reliable as you might be used to, depending on where you are. I think it is much more of a problem trying to get stuff delivered in that sending it out. A bit tricky with art work since you are dealing with something irreplaceable unless you are doing digital stuff in which case you can start with internet availability and fall back to regular mail if need be.

Living on a boat and cruising to interesting places constantly involves making things work. Part of the challenge and part of the fun.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

way-happy said:


> ...Another major concern (and one that has prompted me to start consulting in this area) is security over public wifi. I know too many cruisers that log into their online businesses and check their bank accounts and order things from amazon or defender over open unsecure public wifi in who-knows-where. If you are going to rely on unsecured and unknown wifi, you'd better be smart and take some security precautions, or else be prepared to have someone steal your identity or money or accounts, etc...


It's no less secure than someone sitting in any of the 100 houses that share my cable modem loop, right now, here at home. And anyone parked in front of any of the 50 of those houses that have wifi. Or sitting off (controlling) a router in the path between you and your bank. If your bank isn't using SSL for encryption (with the little locked symbol at the bottom of the window), then you had better switch banks fast because they are probably keeping your account balances on stone tablets.

Regular IDs like your sailnet ID are open to being intercepted and stolen. But I don't think anyone would get away with that after you surfaced on sailnet using a new ID and explained it to the mods -- or after you called in some other help first. They could steal your email credentials, depending how you set that up, so yes, there is a business for you there. (If they don't do a google seach for protected email credentials.) The same exact concerns exist if you are on a land line at a hotel overseas, with people tapping into the connection. Keep changing those sailnet, ftp, etc. passwords periodically.

You're actually more vulnerable to payloads in websites you visit -- even if you did have an encrypted path to them.

But banks? That's a scare tactic.

Regards,
Brad,Certified Information systems Security Professional (CISSP)
Cerfitied Cryptogolic Egnineer (CCE)
Chief Information Security Officer (by title) for super big company
Paper Pusher (in actuality)​


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## way-happy (Oct 14, 2011)

Starting a new thread to specifically talk about security issues on wifi while cruising, so we don't hijack this thread.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/84003-security-while-using-wifi-while-cruising.html


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## Hawaiigirl (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks Undadar...wow...I have NO clue as to what I am going to do...We are going to go to the Bahamas and I have to at least be able to run my mail order business.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

I'd like to some day but for now i just have to settle for reading about sailing on the internet while working.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Interesting article but note guy's on a 62'Morris. Given needs of my job for present actually will plan cruises around wifi access for next year or so. Between that and ssb (with sailmail) for weather and personal communications can get by. For someone doing constant active business on web it remains problematic. Have real people for staff in a real office with real servor but also stuff in cloud. One way around it is to email staff tell them what to do and have them do it on web/phone etc.. Email easy and cheap.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

i think the issue is whether you have the type of job that would let you telecommute in the first place. In my industry telecommuting is not an option. I would need to develop a new skill set to allow me to work from afar. Beyond that you have to look at the access to internet and scheduling your availability. One key to cruising cheap is to spend time swinging on a hook in remote locations. If you need to have internet to support your cruising you will need to spend more time in potentially expensive marinas, greatly increasing the cost of the cruising lifestyle.

Depending on your job needs and if you need to be readily accessible online long passages and your choices of destinations will be limited. Being an artist might work. I am a photographer and would love to sail around the world taking pictures while some studios represent and sail my work. What kind of art do you create? If you could create from your boat and have a following or studios that can sell your work without you being there often you could be good to untie and go. If you are a lifesize marble scuplture you might need a bigger sailboat.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

When I was making a living as an outdoor writer the PC was, and still is an incredible tool. I purchased an inexpensive USB antenna, about $19 on sale, it provided me with up to 7 miles of access to various sites open to the public. I could check my email, file my feature stories and photos, easily meet deadlines, listen to music, watch movies, all of which were free of charge. I sincerely believe that if you are going to be a coastal cruiser, and can work from the comfort of your boat, this is the way to go.

The guy who was docked in front of me at Marathon City Marina was an electrical and mechanical engineering consultant. He had not been to the corporate office in more than 5 years. He had a similar WI-FI antenna mounted near the top of his mast. It provided him unsecured Internet access nearly every place he sailed. 

I'm still self employed, only now the income comes from being a musician/entertainer. My musical equipment is not what it was a decade ago. It's much lighter, takes up far less space, easily transportable, and during my excursion down the ICW and back it was with me the entire time. Everything survived the harsh marine environment, several nasty storms, and the humidity of the Florida Keys. The PC and Internet access were vital to me during that 6-month voyage. It allowed me to learn new songs that local audiences requested. It allowed me to keep in touch with my family, maintain communication with clients in Maryland, and the ability to set up and schedule performances at dozens of locations, both at home and along the way.

Now, all of the sites I used were unsecured. That means these are places you want to do online banking, make transactions using credit/debit cards, etc... That would be financial suicide at the very least. But, for most everything else, unsecured sites are just fine.

Good Luck,

Gary


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

travlineasy said:


> When I was making a living as an outdoor writer the PC was, and still is an incredible tool. I purchased an inexpensive USB antenna, about $19 on sale, it provided me with up to 7 miles of access to various sites open to the public. I could check my email, file my feature stories and photos, easily meet deadlines, listen to music, watch movies, all of which were free of charge. I sincerely believe that if you are going to be a coastal cruiser, and can work from the comfort of your boat, this is the way to go.
> 
> The guy who was docked in front of me at Marathon City Marina was an electrical and mechanical engineering consultant. He had not been to the corporate office in more than 5 years. He had a similar WI-FI antenna mounted near the top of his mast. It provided him unsecured Internet access nearly every place he sailed.
> 
> ...


Great that it worked out for you, but the time of unsecured wireless is coming to an end, unless it is being offered as a service. But most places are now figuring out that this "free service" can now become a profit source I am sure most will dry up unless there is a coffee shop nearby. Most of the time now cable companies offer "free" wireless routers now with there service. One of the main reasons they are doing this is that so many customers were not smart enough to follow the two page flyer that comes with the router to set up a secure connection. The cable companies were tired of folks "borrowing" bandwidth. So they provide the free router with is offered to make sure the connection is secured.

I will say that some local cable companies are doing a great job of offering free to subscribers wifi hotspots in lots of locations. Apparently they encourage the local business to offer it. But you have to be a cable subscriber to connect to it. Optimum is great in my area, but there cable service is not good so we switched.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

miatapaul said:


> Great that it worked out for you, but the time of unsecured wireless is coming to an end, unless it is being offered as a service. But most places are now figuring out that this "free service" can now become a profit source I am sure most will dry up unless there is a coffee shop nearby.


Even then it is not free or open. As someone who has spent the last decade on the road, unfortunately not in a boat, I know about internet access. Every coffee shop and library and other free wifi will still have a code you need to get on. The number of wifi signals available from any locations has multiplied many times over the last few years, while the unsecured wifi signals have decreased.

If you can find a signal locally, you can swing by the coffee shop, buy a muffin and get the wifi code to use from the boat. I had a WIFI antenna about 4 years ago and it helped me pull in a few more signals but I think I might have been able to reach a few doors away, 7 miles is impressive. I guess if you could get all the signals for a 7 mile radius, you might have a 1000 wifi signals to find one un-secured signal.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

internet only while n port. i use banda ancha (3g) or i go to places with wifi and food. 

while at sea i have better things to do than futz around messing online.


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

I ran my surveying company for a couple years from the salon of my boat . Surveying calcs , bids , invoicing , ect. ect. Finally decided the biz was intrusive & got rid of it .


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## Greyhound37 (Mar 25, 2012)

I had a KVH V3 system installed last winter. This is full internet and sat phone service. Offshore we had seamless internet and phone service. Not terribly expensive, $250 a month for the base plan. Anything you can do on your home computer you can do with this system. The hardware is available for $13,000. +/-, not installed, and you need AC power to run it so if you are a smaller boat like me add inverter and 2 batteries. Of course you will need to offset this weight gain with lots of carbon fiber bits ;-)


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## Greyhound37 (Mar 25, 2012)

small antenna


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

jephotog said:


> The number of wifi signals available from any locations has multiplied many times over the last few years, while the unsecured wifi signals have decreased.


Exactly. The number of wifi signals that you will pick up has gone up dramatically in the last few years. To the point where you may see hundreds in some places, if you have a long-range system. But the number of those that are unsecured has gone down just as dramatically. Five years ago I would guess that at least half the signals I picked up were unsecured, maybe two thirds. Nowadays, if I find one unsecured signal among 30 then I consider that to be pretty good.


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## JeffreySiegel (Jun 8, 2007)

It's all quite easy along the US east coast. We have Internet access every day and run our entire online business from the boat. 

I'm literally underway right now (on the Potomac River) making this posting...


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## Greyhound37 (Mar 25, 2012)

I expect Hawaii Girl will be out of cell range within one hour of leaving the dock. So all that wifi and iphone/ipad hardware is useless.


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## dvuyxx (Jun 23, 2009)

The availability has improved even since this thread started last year. If you are just cruising domestically and coastal, then you can just get a "my-fi" like a Verizon Jetpack and use that for multiple devices aboard wirelessly. You can pick a plan, like 6gb which is pretty hard to spend in a month.


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## Greyhound37 (Mar 25, 2012)

Sounds like I am out of touch with current tech but as of last Tuesday you have zero cell coverage 8 miles off Cape Romain, Cape Lookout, Charleston, Hatteras...


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I don't know if the number of free WI-FI sites is decreasing, or the number of WI-FI sites has increased disproportionally. In the 3,185 miles a traveled up and down the east coast I only had a couple instances where I couldn't find free, unsecured WI-FI. No passwords or codes needed with any of them. Now, there were a couple that wanted you to join for a nominal fee, $12 a year, or something like that, but most of the marina sites were unsecured, and nearly all of the municipal sites were unsecured. I suspect they will remain that way, but who knows, I could be wrong. Now, I did go four days without any cellular telephone connection while in the remote swamps of North Carolina and Virginia, but during that time I still had unsecured WI-FI so I was able to send an email to my loving spouse and tell her not to cash in on the life insurance policy. 

Good Luck,

Gary


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## JeffreySiegel (Jun 8, 2007)

Greyhound37 said:


> Sounds like I am out of touch with current tech but as of last Tuesday you have zero cell coverage 8 miles off Cape Romain, Cape Lookout, Charleston, Hatteras...


I routinely maintain cell coverage offshore between Charleston and Beaufort. That's an overnight for us. Going through Frying Pan Shoals Slue, we're about 12 nm out and maybe a little further from land north of Frying Pan Shoals because the NC coast scallops away.

Here's the thing. When you lose cell coverage 8 miles out, did you have a 3G and 4G cellular amp with antenna?

We also maintain AT&T and Verizon accounts. I find that AT&T maintains much more signal offshore than Verizon. That might change in the future but it's been my experience this spring.

I'm now anchored at Mason Neck, 20 nm south of DC. I've got a screaming fast internet connection here.


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## donjuanluis (Jun 24, 2013)

Was web searching and found this thread, what about this service Satellite Internet For Boats | Satellite Internet Pros , can somebody give a credit on it? I'm planning to move to the sea, and start cruising around, but need internet to keep making my living...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I understand that data over satellite internet connections is extraordinarily expensive. No experience.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

donjuanluis said:


> Satellite Internet For Boats | ...




If that is $40 per month everyone would be using it. Thats what I pay for crap wifi.
I understand broadband like that on boats is $5,000 per month.

Ring them and find out what the catch is.


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## donjuanluis (Jun 24, 2013)

Yes it is expensive for blue water coverage!!! SeaTel marine satellite Internet systems. Broadband satellite Internet access services by Mobile Satellite Technologies 
the work on it must be worth enough


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

When we are cruising we would really rather not be connected to the internet. When we are in port we catch up on email etc. and when we settle in for the winter we work on uploads etc. but at sea or in a secluded, remote anchorage we just do not want the distraction.


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