# Rough weather seperates real boats from bad boats...



## sailguy40 (Feb 6, 2010)

Any boat can float and sail (or motor) along in calm or light conditions. Even a plywood box with a sail will move along along. Its when the weather spikes up out of nowhere and that 5-10knt winds just turned to 45+ gale force kicking up large breaking white caps. This is the time where boats and their skippers are put to the test and the real boats are seperated from the not so real boats. Its seems like some boats are just not truely storm capable which if and when you get hit, you could be in grave danger especially considering many videos I seen on youtube. Some of those videos are just scary as heck! This from what I understand is the main thing which makes a boat blue water capable or not.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Its not the good from the bad but, The seaworthy boats from the lake boats.


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

boats are boats, some built better, some designed better. All are compromises. None will survive the all out fury of mother nature at one time or another. Doesn't mean they are bad boats. Some of the best built/designed boats have failed in spectacular ways, with very little weather to contend with, so some of it is arrogance of the men who sail the. (re: racing boats that crack in half, masts snapping, etc)

A lot of it, when you look at those who sail the world, is luck.


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## dhays (Jul 9, 2010)

*Maybe you didn't think this through...*



> Rough weather seperates real boats from bad boats...


It is pretty silly to think that only "real boats" can handle 45 knot winds and large breaking waves. A sailboat, much like any other vehicle, is designed for a particular purpose.

Is a Porsche 911 a "bad" vehicle because it can't handle icy mountain roads? Is a Range Rover a "bad" vehicle because it turns in lousy track times?

It is the same with sailboats. What the "best" boat is depends on where and how it is used. A great blue water cruiser would be a "bad" boat for inland racing. Your comment is like calling a screw driver a "bad" tool because it can't drive nails.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

sailguy40 said:


> Rough weather seperates real boats from bad boats...


I am not sure what do you mean:
What do you think are real boat or bad boat? If I assume correctly in the context of Sailnet culture, the good ones are Valiant, Caliber, HR, Swan, and CH etc. The bad ones are Hunter, Catalina and the bigger offender, Beneteau 

I used to think that, but after intense studying the facts, I think all sailboat can survive regardless the make. The boats vanished in the seas is not because they were poorly made. Most because of human factor and "TOO MUCH SAIL" for the condition they wee in. Of course unable to reef in a timely matter can cause trouble. Yes, a well made boat may offer better mechanism to reef, etc. But you can do the modification on a Beneteau too.

There is no bad dog, only the bad dog owner.

I think our long time contributor Sailing Dog said once: The boat will survive better than those the Deck Monkeys on her deck.

Of course, WestSail has a better sea comfort than a flat bottom Beneteau. It really depends on ones's need. There is not an easy answer.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

kd3pc said:


> None will survive the all out fury of mother nature at one time or another.


In the eyes of the ocean, all boats are tiny, including Titanic.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

sailguy40 said:


> This from what I understand is the main thing which makes a boat blue water capable or not.


Your getting beat up bit but I think that is because of the "bad boats" term.

If what you meant to say. "Is this the difference between a coastal sailing boat and a blue water boat" I doubt if most folks would take issue.


A fuller hull with longer keel will be slower but track better and not pound as much.
Heavier chain plates and standing rigging are more likely to endure long term pounding.
Lots of stringers or egg create stiffeners to create a ridged hull will prevent the hull from flexing itself to death during weeks of rough conditions.
A rudder hung in such a way as to have protection will likely survive better than a simple fin.

Your basic premise is correct. Blue water boats are built differently. They are almost always more expensive, heavier and slower with more room for tanks and stowage and less room for people. 
Just don't call all the other boats from Sunfishes to Bennes, Cats and Hunters bad boats or not real boats and you will get more constructive comments.


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## mdbee (May 2, 2007)

*Good and bad*

I think the OP was a bit myopic.

Conversely you could say bluewater boats suck sailing in shallow bays.

Different uses, different designs.



davidpm said:


> Your getting beat up bit but I think that is because of the "bad boats" term.
> 
> If what you meant to say. "Is this the difference between a coastal sailing boat and a blue water boat" I doubt if most folks would take issue.
> 
> ...


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## jerryrlitton (Oct 14, 2002)

kd3pc said:


> A lot of it, when you look at those who sail the world, is luck.


I agree with sailguy but was Boasun said is very true.
As far as luck goes I have found that most of the time it is better to be lucky then good.

Jerry


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

NO. How about the experience of the guy at the helm? Seen a lot of small "bad boats" cross big Oceans. Preparation and planning beat luck any day. If I was back in the desert then luck would come into it. 45 knots is nothing either....in the hands of a capable skipper.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Lets also talk about crew or lack of crew, along with crew experience too. I've seen pics of one fellow single handing a Beneteau Figaro II doing mid teens in 30-40 knots of wind down wind, surfing! He was knocked down a few time, popped right back up and away he went! Some on here would consider that boat NOT to be ocean worth, yet the design spec is single/double handed racing ACROSS oceans! Not to mention it's a bendy toy!

I did a race last February? blowing 20'ish at the start, hit upper 20's to low 30's later, Myself and another 30' boat stayed out, meanwhile, the fellow in the 37' C&C had to go back in. Why, He was not setup with ANY reefs in the main, rollerfurling jib.......the other boat and myself, had 4 jib options, and double reefs available to us! Some would consider my Jeanneau a non windy day doable boat. It does fine in 40+ knot winds. I have not been on an ocean, but still in 4-6' waves in puget sound. 

Design is some of it, building materials some of it, as is crew, and how easy it is to shorten sail, and type of sail is exposed in a given condition etc. One IMHO can not say it is JUST boat design or manufacture. Heck, frieghters get sunk in hurricanes, meanwhile a 30 somthing foot sailboat goes thru with out a scratch! I know why, less wind in some cases will sink the sailboat, and the frieghter will go thru it! 

marty


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

This shure went off the rails fast lol.. I saw the title and said to myself finally the thread I been waiting for 

Just my 2c$ ...After looking at a bunch of info and researching LOTS of boats , It came to me no matter which boat I end up with .........It MUST be able to take Heavy Weather even if I never go "around the world" just hanging off the hook it Must be able to weather the storm ( in style hopefully with rig intact).

This is the driving factor for me & the #1 reason I was looking at keelboats primarily ,now I understand it's more than that...


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## smallboatlover (May 11, 2011)

I think it doesn't really mater about the boat but the skipper like others have said. the other day it was blowing about 20mph or 30 there were tons of big sailboat out there sailing with just there geneo and i was out on my motor boat barley able to go over 5mph cause of the wave but i saw a little 14' sailboat out there sailing with a main and a jib with his son he never tiped never came close but if he did the wrong thing that boat would esaliy of capsized. all about the skipper nothing to do with the boat. hell with it you could just drop your sails and motor.


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## sailguy40 (Feb 6, 2010)

dhays said:


> It is pretty silly to think that only "real boats" can handle 45 knot winds and large breaking waves. A sailboat, much like any other vehicle, is designed for a particular purpose.
> 
> Is a Porsche 911 a "bad" vehicle because it can't handle icy mountain roads? Is a Range Rover a "bad" vehicle because it turns in lousy track times?
> 
> It is the same with sailboats. What the "best" boat is depends on where and how it is used. A great blue water cruiser would be a "bad" boat for inland racing. Your comment is like calling a screw driver a "bad" tool because it can't drive nails.


Now don't get me wrong, I do realize there are different boats for different purposes. You can compare two vehicles in the same catagory, for example two pickup trucks. Lets take a Chevy Silverado and a Toyota Tacoma. Even though they are both pickup trucks, the Silverado is far superior as its a full size pickup. More horsepower, more towing capacity, a bigger bed, stronger suspension etc. The Tacoma can still carry cargo but is limited to how much not to mention the towing capacity is much less of the Silverado. This does not mean the Tacoma is a bad vehicle, just that the Silverado is much more of a truck inside and out. Naturally the price tag is higher on the full size truck. So you pay less with the Tacoma but end up picking up some limitations.

If I was ever caught in a storm, I would much rather be in an Oday 37 then my Oday 22 regardless of my experience no matter if I am in the lake or gulf. I see the 37 as just much more of a sailboat, a lot of boat there. So with my limited cargo capacity and lighter rigging and smaller vessel, I would take a big risk trying to make a crossing, even a gulf crossing I would not try. Then again, mine is not made for that she's more of a lake or coastal boat. Where the 37 can do all it wants in the lake just as I can, plus non-stop trip to Florida keys. I also bet its much faster then mine. Another example, how my rudder broke clean in half out in the lake in 25kt winds. That would have never happened to my Cal 25 in 25kt because it was much more sturdy and solid, nearly twice the displacement and was simply more of a sailboat. It could do anything mine can as good or better plus more, well ok maybe not turn as good but thats about it. My 22 is a shallow draft vessel and can even be trailered. Thats about the best two advantages of mine against the others I can come up with. I don't have a trailer so scratch that plus I still don't like shallow water yet so another scratch.

At last, if there are two blue water cruisers of same year make but different models, one would have to be better built then the other. A storm would put them both to the test and if any sailboat is considered blue water I would hope it would be able to handle a typical storm.

This all said, anyone have an Oday 37 they would like to trade for my Oday 22?  Just kidding of course, I absolutely LOVE my 22 but she's just not quite as much sailboat as some of the bigger boys at the marina. I will say she is one of the prettiest but her good looks won't save us from a storm, once the storm finds out she is "taken" and no asking her out, it will really get violent. :laugher In the end, a big boat can sail in a smaller lake but a smaller boat can't always just sail in blue water unless they want to risk it all, even their lives.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

You are still using items that make sense, yet not. In the trucks, are you comparing a Chevy 1500 to a toyota? if so, very equal. If you are comparing my dually CC duramax to a typical 15 series toyota......I can put a loaded Chevy 1500 or a toyota equal in the bed and still have some payload room, granted not much.....

To compare your 22 to a 37, again, two different creatures, two different design specs etc. 

Also, just because you lost a rudder, does not mean it was not designed strong enough. Who is to say in the last 20 some odd years your boat has been sailing, that someone did not ground the thing, once or twice or three times. Your last trip out was the "straw" that broke what was unseen breaking in the rudder. There are a few folks I know of with 40' boats that have had some rudders break! so it is NOT the fact you have a 22' boat!

The smallest boat to cross the atlantic, IIRC is 7 something feet, maybe 6'! so a small boat can do large things. maybe not comfortable, or speedy, or fun or _________

People can sometimes make or break a boat as much as the boat itself breaking!

Marty


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## OtterGreen (May 10, 2011)

even boats like the VO70's end up breaking. they have impecable crew and skipper and spend millions upon millions of dollars with R&D, but sometimes mother nature puts everyone into a reality check.


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## sailguy40 (Feb 6, 2010)

I am actually comparing a full size pickup, Silverado to a mid size pickup a Tacoma. A Tundra would be near equal since that is a full size. Your dually is way more truck then a Silverado. I am talking just about every last catergory other then MPG which is an issue with the high prices of gas. Parking is also more of a problem but what you get back in return is way more truck. No matter how you compare those trucks that dually is clearly a step up. Well maybe the Silverado has more acceleration but everything else is above and beyond. The price tag is higher on a dually for a reason, you are getting much more vehicle. Sure a Silverado 1500 can try to pull a super heavy yacht sailboat on a trailer but the dually most certainly can and without breaking a sweat or risk breaking anything on the truck. The Silverado might could get that yacht home but don't be surprised if a new transmission needs to get placed on order. I am trying to also figure out something the Silverado can do that the dually can't? Racing I suppose but pickups are not made for that. If I want to race I get a sports car with a 6-speed manual. Not everyone needs a big dually but at least if you do, its there. 

I guess my point in the ending without taking crew into consideration and just comparing the boats, bigger is better out there when swells start getting in the 10ft and higher range. What is the rule of thumb for wave height vs boat length before it could capsize? Wasn't it if wave height exceeds 60% or more of the boat length, a capsize is likely? If so mine could capsize in near 9ft swells where that 37 would have to be near 15ft swells before it becomes a problem. This makes me think that 9ft swells, although pretty big, would not seem so big when you have 15ft more of boat and 14,000lb displacement vs a 2600lb vessel. Once the crew does as much as they can, its up to the sea worthiness of their vessel and mother nature to decide their fate now.

My comparison is not necessarily lake cruisers vs blue water cruisers but more of two vessels of similar size and type. Even if both are on lakes, if the weather spikes up (and in lake ponchartrain believe me it does), most likely one boat will be safer then the other. An example, mine is hands down superior if compared to my brother in laws Venture 21. That Venture even though was only a foot shorter was less then half the weight of my Oday 22. I would rather be in my much heavier boat while a storm comes through. Yet another example, when I storm strikes I would rather be in that Venture 21 then a 16ft sailboat. I guess anything else under 16ft would be a floating coffin if a heavy storm plows through no matter if you're in a lake or sea.

At last, I almost feel like a few times in this thread I am talking nothing but bad about my boat and other boats that size. Shame on me because I am certainly not meaning for it to sound that way. Mine has NEVER done a thing to me other then her rudder breaking which I am starting to come to the conclusion it was half MY mistake anyway. Truely she is a great sailing boat in many conditions and I will admit to that. She has paid for herself, over and over again if you compare the dollar value to the fun and enjoyment she has brought me since I bought her.


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## sailguy40 (Feb 6, 2010)

OtterGreen said:


> even boats like the VO70's end up breaking. they have impecable crew and skipper and spend millions upon millions of dollars with R&D, but sometimes mother nature puts everyone into a reality check.


Simple and well said, heck even a Tanker can catch hell out there in storms. Anyone seen some of those videos on youtube with different merchant ships taking on storms and super high seas? This video scares the living $HIT out of me... ‪Merchant Ship in a Storm Force 10‬‏ - YouTube Keep watching, it gets worse especially after the 4:00min time mark. Man I don't think ANY sailboat would want to be out there in that. The ship in this video is a 12,000 tonne beast and its still catching some hell!


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

There are some pics floating around, about a world championship in Opti's......blowing 20+, waves in the 20-30' range, looked kinda fun frankly.

By the way, my dually "IS" a Silverado! just happens to be a different model of silverado vs the smaller GVWR ones. IIRC there are some 40 models and versions of silverados! My silvarado is pretty small vs my navistar dumptruck, which can handle the silvarado in the bed with some payload to spare!

Something you need to also remember, if the wave length from top to trough is equal to your boat, your doomed! Hence why tankers sink in hurricanes, and smalle 30-50' sailboats make it thru. They operate like a cork and bounce thru, the tanker get pushed under by the waves! or the wave crest to crest is about the same length as the tanker, the midle of the tanker is out of the water, she breaks in half, and goes down. So bigger is not always better for many reasons shapes and forms.

More than one way to look at the issue at hand. 

Along with, who is to say the broken rudder was your fault, other than you went out in some mid 20 knot winds. I did that in Lk Washington with an 8' plywood pram I built myself at age 12! My stepdad built a Glen-L 21 CB sailboat, simaler to your Oday, we sailed that a few times in 30 knot winds too! again, no issues. 

There are plywood 22' boats used for across ocean races. IE transat's! 

V70's, while many $$ spent designing etc. they crew IS pushing the limits of said boats, normal in race conditions. 

Personally, I have issues with folks who try to put limits on what is a good or bad item for a given use. If I look at Americas cup boats from the early 1900's, compared to todays SB's major difference. Evenlook at the Indy style cars from the early 1900's, vs today. Record speed at one time was mid 20's? now over 200 MPH. 

Ay way, off to work.

marty


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

*Go or No-go for offshore.*

Lets face it. The wise experienced Captain/skipper will not go offshore in foul weather. Which is different of being caught offshore by foul weax.
Then the skills of Capt & crew comes into play on surviving said foul weax.
But one trick that has really kept me in the good graces with God is to go slow. You should not be in a hurry to be any place. Your vessel will have an easier time and less stress by slowing down and riding over the waves and Not Plowing through them. Another thing is not to panic. Panicing is a killer in more ways then one.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

So who can help me? I'm planning to circumnavigate in a laser. I was planning on using a sunfish, but the rudder broke once. How should I set up a reefing system? What else should I take? hmmm. Maybe a Thistle might be a better choice. How should I install a diesel? Tankage? What do you take for food? I'm ruling out refrigeration to keep things simple. Can anyone tell me if the boat will 'slam' going to weather? By the way, I drive a station wagon. Hope that helps!


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## rayncyn51 (Aug 8, 2008)

Might be easier to take the station wagon. Just make sure the chainplates are up to it.


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## pinayreefer (Mar 18, 2011)

I once lived next to a wealthy family who had waterfront. It looked like a marina, with at least 10 boats lined up, all different for use in different conditions. 
As for weather, yes I have the motto, "You gotta be tough if you're gonna be stupid". Took my McG... 22 from Key West to the Dry Tortugas without checking a weather forecast. Thanks goodnes for a storm jib as we got beat to near death by the remnants of a tropical storm,registered 40 knots, though that doesn't seem like much until you're on a flat-bottomed McG..., but we made it to Fort Jefferson! 
My point is that sometimes people can get away with crazy stuff, but not every time. I'll take my future chances with something with a higher probability of success than a McG!


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

sailguy40 said:


> If I was ever caught in a storm, I would much rather be in an Oday 37 then my Oday 22 regardless of my experience no matter if I am in the lake or gulf. I see the 37 as just much more of a sailboat, a lot of boat there.


It was May 1980 and I was crew with two very experienced men from England doing a delivery from Annapolis to St Lucia (I myself had never sailed a boat before). We were sailing a new Oday 37, and left Norfolk to sail non-stop to Antigua. About 1/2 during the trip we hit a gale. At night we hove to as we could not see the waves and the boat was pounding pretty bad. So bad the experienced capt filled a ditch bad with food and prepared the life raft in case the boat began to sink. This was at a time of no epirbs or GPS, we only had a VHF good for 30 miles and no ships were around. SSB was available but because this was to be a charter boat, one was not installed. We made it through the storm. By the way, every over head light fixture was full of water and we had 6 inches of water sloshing around the sole during this time, and all the bunks were wet- The boats deck and fittings leaked like a sieve.

Based on that trip I would not consider an Oday 37 a blue water boat or and off shore boat- at least not one I would trust friends or family to.


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## sailguy40 (Feb 6, 2010)

Boasun said:


> Lets face it. The wise experienced Captain/skipper will not go offshore in foul weather. Which is different of being caught offshore by foul weax.
> Then the skills of Capt & crew comes into play on surviving said foul weax.
> But one trick that has really kept me in the good graces with God is to go slow. You should not be in a hurry to be any place. Your vessel will have an easier time and less stress by slowing down and riding over the waves and Not Plowing through them. Another thing is not to panic. Panicing is a killer in more ways then one.


Agreed and now that you say that, I realize my thoughts were correct. I was wondering if I was not pushing my boat so hard and fast, I could have had a rudder for my return trip :laugher So the day when I had rudder failure I was rushing and pushing my boat really hard to try and get to my anchorage so I can get setup for the night. It was a planned out trip and something told me to wait until the next day since we departed from the dock 2 hours later then planned. Plowing through the waves is exactly what I did until the waves plowed through my rudder. I think if I would have put a reef in the main, it would have slowed me enough which would mean less stress on the boat, rigger, rudder whatever. Oh well, at least I know now.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

rockDAWG said:


> I used to think that, but after intense studying the facts, I think all sailboat can survive regardless the make. The boats vanished in the seas is not because they were poorly made. Most because of human factor and "TOO MUCH SAIL" for the condition they wee in. Of course unable to reef in a timely matter can cause trouble. Yes, a well made boat may offer better mechanism to reef, etc. But you can do the modification on a Beneteau too.


Sorry, but I have to disagree, I think it's a bit naïve to dismiss the importance of two vital factors in a boat when sailing in heavy weather offshore&#8230;

Namely, _Quality_, and _Simplicity_&#8230;

IMHO, it's impossible to understate the degree to which relatively minor, niggling problems related to lesser quality in production can degrade the morale of the crew, and contribute to discomfort, exhaustion, fear, and - ultimately - lassitude&#8230; Little things like leaking hatches or other topside leaks are usually little more than an annoyance on a coastal cruise. But in a prolonged period of heavy weather offshore, they can easily become one among many annoyances that can quickly contribute to larger problems, allowing water to migrate into electrical systems, and so on&#8230; It's amazing, for example, how something as seemingly minor as the creaking of bulkheads and cabinetry on a boat of lesser quality can get to one after awhile, and greatly exacerbate one's annoyance with the boat and overall situation&#8230; You are correct in saying that boats will almost always far outlast their crews in heavy weather, but I think you might be ignoring how much the boat itself can be responsible for that&#8230;

Just a hunch, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if such factors came heavily into play in the recent abandonment of the 50' Gulfstar TRUMPH&#8230; A cascading series of failures on an older boat not really designed or built for offshore, none of them seemingly catastrophic in themselves (from what little we know of what actually occurred, of course) eventually just wore down the morale of the crew to the point they just wanted off&#8230; Again, that's just my hunch, of course&#8230;

On the other side of the coin, boats of high quality, but possessing a great deal of complexity, can work a similar sort of rope-a-dope upon their crews&#8230; One of the most miserable trips I've ever had in recent memory was aboard a former Cruising World BOTY Luxury Cruiser category winner and subject of a cover story feature, your quintessential $1.5 million "Globe Girdler"&#8230; A very impressive boat with a great design pedigree, but heavily dependent upon an array of complex systems to sail&#8230;

Sure enough, shortly after exiting the Stream off Hatteras, we began to suffer the first of various full or partial failures that plagued us for the remainder of the trip - which turned into a hard beat for the last 800 miles, we were barely able to fetch Tortola&#8230; The watermaker was the first to go, on a boat with relatively modest water capacity - because, of course, why do you need capacious water tanks with a watermaker aboard? Then, the generator quit, which meant no air conditioning for the final warm days of the trip&#8230; Life below became rather oppressive, with the inability to open hatches or ports while beating into large seas - dorades, of course, have become hopelessly passe' on a modern climate-controlled Globe Girdler&#8230; The electric Leisure-Furl crapped out before we had even exited the Chesapeake, and furling the main turned into a three man operation every time the apparent wind changed by more than a few knots, with such a highly powered-up, mainsail-dependent rig&#8230; The autopilot was barely hanging in there for the second half of the trip, we wound up hand-steering most of the last several days&#8230; And virtually every day, some new problem associated with the extraordinary complexity of this boat surfaced, that sort of thing really affects your morale after awhile&#8230; By the time we finally got to the Bitter End, all three of us were practically climbing over each other to be the first one to get off the freakin' thing&#8230;

So, IMHO, it can cut both ways&#8230; But to suggest that the boat really doesn't matter that much, that any plastic production model will fare every bit as well as a higher quality offering, in my experience, really misses the mark&#8230; Go with as much quality as you can afford, and keep it as simple as possible, is my mantra&#8230;


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

puddinlegs said:


> So who can help me? I'm planning to circumnavigate in a laser. I was planning on using a sunfish, but the rudder broke once. How should I set up a reefing system? What else should I take? hmmm. Maybe a Thistle might be a better choice. How should I install a diesel? Tankage? What do you take for food? I'm ruling out refrigeration to keep things simple. Can anyone tell me if the boat will 'slam' going to weather? By the way, I drive a station wagon. Hope that helps!


Not that I should be thinking......OOUCH! dang nabbit, pulled a brain electron again.....grrrrrrrr.....

lets get this circumnavigate with lasers into a race! Wonder how many lasers we can get starting here in Seattle, 1st stop say PA, then down to Illwaco, to somewhere in Or, then N ca, to SF. Then the long jaunt to Hawaii. then midway........

I would imagine a sponsor or two or three should come along reasonably easy enough..... Maybe 48N?!?!?!?....

I got it

SAILNET!

Marty


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

sailguy40 said:


> Agreed and now that you say that, I realize my thoughts were correct. I was wondering if I was not pushing my boat so hard and fast, I could have had a rudder for my return trip :laugher So the day when I had rudder failure I was rushing and pushing my boat really hard to try and get to my anchorage so I can get setup for the night. It was a planned out trip and something told me to wait until the next day since we departed from the dock 2 hours later then planned. Plowing through the waves is exactly what I did until the waves plowed through my rudder. I think if I would have put a reef in the main, it would have slowed me enough which would mean less stress on the boat, rigger, rudder whatever. Oh well, at least I know now.


Your rudder broke because it was old and possibly had been damaged by impact previous to your ownership, or more probably, wet core and disintegrated tabbing from years of normal use. If every rudder broke that was 'pushed', this stuff would be epidemic on any number of boats.


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## wolfenzee (Jul 13, 2008)

In a discussion on what makes up a "blue water boat" a friend responded,"you can take any boat to sea, it just matters whether you have more balls than brains". That said he went onto say he has a Catalina 30 "I know you have to pay a bit more attention when sailing it, it is a bit more work, it's a bit rougher in a nasty sea....but it is also a comfortable live aboard for me and my wife"
I on the otherhand have William Atkin design boat, great sea boat, fast, narrow, solid and dry....but tight for a live aboard.


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