# Hans Christian 33 fixer upper. Worth it?



## fireman182 (Jan 22, 2016)

Hello,
I've been boat shopping for the past year just getting a feel for the "right" boat. I came across a Hans Christian 33T for sale about 50 thousand below market value. Asking $36000. Its on yachtworld. Lots of interest in it but no bites. 

I spoke to the broker and he said it would need. 

Sails
Running Rigging
Electronics (Navigation, Depth, Chartplotter etc.)
All the exterior teak needs work (including the teak deck)
Toilet and all the plumbing
Stove and oven

The interior looks okay. The brass taps are all corroded green. The ports had a few leaks, Shes definitely not sea worthy right now

The good? Engine was rebuilt and the hull was professionally repaired or re glassed. I would say it has good bones.

Worth it? What would be the value of it in its current state?

Thanks!


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Big ticket item is probably the deck. Likely leaks like a mother.
Get an independent survey done on it if you are serious.


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

Do you want to work on a boat or sail it? You might end up putting that 50K savings in to the thing anyway.....


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## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

If you're handy and don't mind spending a year fitting out?
Offer a low-ball number 10 K less than asking.after. a good survey(not including bad deck allowance)
IMHO, the value of an HC once kitted out is worth the wait and dollars *IF* ya can get it right price 

AFA salining vs fixing? Ya gotta pull her out to refit sometime anyway; so might as well do it from the jump. Different strokes, I guess


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Find a surveyor and follow him around making your own list. Then start making a parts list, with retail pricing and hours of labor.

You will likely find there is a reason no one has bit at 30K. This is where you decide the value of the hull and engine. That is what you are buying. Looked at the ad, I'll play devils advocate....6K for a used engine and 10K for the hull. Thats my offer if there is no structural damage.

I made my own imaginary list, purely for my own entertainment, I'm not pretending its accurate, but it could be.
1K for survey
.3K for engine survey
.5K for a rigger, who knows these boats to spend half a day telling you what you already know
3K for new standing rigging.
6K for sails - Main, gib, jenny
2.kK You have a bow sprit, you might as well have a cruising chute.
2K running rigging
2K for head
2K for galley
2K for rebedding leaks
2K for a bottom strip/paint
.5K for general cleaning/waxing exterior
1K for exterior teak
.5K for cleaning interior including bilge, and lots of polishing
.5K for all fluids and filters changed and stocking up on spares.

I'm billing myself at about 5 - 10 bucks an hour labor doing as much as possible. Including helping out the pros if it keeps the hourly bills down (and I'm not in the way).

List does not include beer, bourbon, trips to West Marine or the dreaded Walmart that lead to buying more crap you never imagined you would need.

Don't ever love anything that can't love you back.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

But they are great boats for living on. So much room in 33'. Cute boomkin. Warm, woody interior. Strong sea boats. Yes may not be the quickest thing out there but timeless design.
All boats are money pits. There was a 33 in Plymouth harbor for decades stored at Brewers. Every time I sailed by her or saw her on the hard was struck by how salty she looked.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

First of all lets take out the name [?Hans Christian?] and call it what it is another leaky teaky Chinese takeaway.

Secondly look at the downside of living on a boat with teak decks in the tropics, hotter down below, too hot to walk on with bare feet and hanging over your head the cost of a total deck replacement and the risk of finding that the plywood deck core is rotten. [ Which is likely as there 1000s of screw holes in the deck.]

If you are going to have the work done by a US yard budget at least $50 and it could be a lot more $100k - $120k.

If I was in the position of owning that boat and if I was to go sailing it had to be that boat [ which I would avoid if I could ] I might ignore the decks as long as I could then I would rip off the teak, a miserable job, sand the decks add a layer of glass cloth/epoxy and paint. I would be praying that the deck was not to soggy.

Yes it is a salty looking boat but if I wanted to go sailing and had 30k to spend I would buy something like this,

1987 Catalina 30 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Younger boat in sailaway condition OK not salty looking but the sunsets will look the same.

Only buy the Hans Christian if you are a workaholic masochist with deep pockets who prefers to work on boats rather than go sailing.


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## Lazerbrains (Oct 25, 2015)

Rob forgot to add that it needs new plumbing, toilet, and stove according to the broker. I'd conservatively put that at 2.5k. Also, this is an old boat that has obviously been neglected. I would also assume a total rewire of the boat for safety sake.

As it doesn't have toilet, plumbing, sails, or stove it sounds like someone scavenged it for parts and that it has been in a state of serious neglect. I wouldn't pay anywhere near 30 for it personally, and even at 10k would have to decide how much I would want to revive one in that bad of condition. For you, it may be worth it.



RobGallagher said:


> Find a surveyor and follow him around making your own list. Then start making a parts list, with retail pricing and hours of labor.
> 
> You will likely find there is a reason no one has bit at 30K. This is where you decide the value of the hull and engine. That is what you are buying. Looked at the ad, I'll play devils advocate....6K for a used engine and 10K for the hull. Thats my offer if there is no structural damage.
> 
> ...


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

First thing to determine is if the deck has leaked into the core material. If it has run away, fast. If not (almost impossible to really determine) then figure in about 10K to remove the teak and glass over the deck (or do it yourself if you've got the time). This sounds like it could be a multi year renovation by the time you find all the "other" stuff that needs work.


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

Sounds like the Zero value Boats are creeping up on 35'. Gets bigger every year. The adage "all Boats cost the same" is surely alive and well here. Without that constant maintenance all Boats need this might well be one of those.


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## sailordanny (Sep 27, 2015)

With used fish boat when I was younger we used to prefer to buy ones with bad engines and wiring. Then once we hand replaced the engine and wiring we had new components rather than used. Too often when you buy a used boat in pristine condition the items like engines and other components start to break with a new owner


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

fireman182 said:


> Worth it? What would be the value of it in its current state?
> 
> Thanks!


No

$0 to me, but its' value is whatever some other buyer is willing to spend. The world is full of "projects".


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

IMHO you can figure out what systems cost, at least within a factor of 2, but the teak and leak issues are hard to determine even in a survey until you start taking things apart. Not to pile on, but fixing leak/teak stuff could easily exceed the asking price of this boat. I'm guessing, the value of the boat is negative $$$s.

I'm a sucker for the way these boats look, so I get the appeal, but if looking at one of these I'd find one in good shape.


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## captjcook (Sep 27, 2008)

If I were offered $100,000 to take that boat, on the condition that I completely restore it cosmetically and functionally to Blue Water standards and replace all the missing, broken equipment...I would pass...even knowing how to do practically all of it, I know what it costs...certainly not willing to give up another five or more years of my life that I could actually be sailing...by working on ANOTHER project boat...worth about 20 percent of outlay...60 came on awfully fast...


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Read up about Rebel Heart and that will give you a pretty good idea of what you may not know of her condition and possibly your ability to do the repairs. PO's and brokers are there to sell you the boat and there are no disclosure laws about boats like there are for houses. Buyer beware!


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

sailordanny said:


> With used fish boat when I was younger we used to prefer to buy ones with bad engines and wiring. Then once we hand replaced the engine and wiring we had new components rather than used. Too often when you buy a used boat in pristine condition the items like engines and other components start to break with a new owner


Valid Point!! add the complexity of the sailing rig to the process and you're good. Rigging can easily be a higher cost than repowering especially if new sails are involved. 15-20K would not be a bad budget number.


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## oldragbaggers (Dec 6, 2005)

God knows I'm not against a good project, but I wouldn't take that one on a bet.


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## ReefMagnet (May 8, 2008)

Proceed with caution...


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## donsboat (Feb 27, 2006)

Please don't buy this boat. You want to get as much pleasure out of sailing as you can get, not pain, disappointment and debt. Listen to what these old hands are telling you and don't end up with someone else's problems. When a boat is this worn down and neglected, just having a few things to fix up as the broker would have it can turn into an almost full rebuild and you will still only have sows ear. Even taking into account the money allready allocated for the known things that need fixing and replacing there is as Donald Rumsfield once famously said, "There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know."
What all that means is that you will never know what a can of worms you'll be getting into and why bother anyway when you can step aboard a well found yacht that's ready to sail away for the same money you were going to outlay for a wreck.
To prove my point here are 3 links to ocean going yachts of the same size and price you had in mind and they were the first 3 I dialed up on the internet. There are dozens more. 
(Sorry I am not allowed to put links in untill I have 10 post but the yachts in question were a Cape Dory33 and a Tartan 33. You can do a search yourself for others that fill your requirements.)
Go sailing! Life's too short to be buggering about fixing up yachts with one foot in the deep six. (Grave)


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

Don't forget standing rigging and chain plates. If they are the originals they are due for replacement. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

sailordanny said:


> With used fish boat when I was younger we used to prefer to buy ones with bad engines and wiring. Then once we hand replaced the engine and wiring we had new components rather than used. Too often when you buy a used boat in pristine condition the items like engines and other components start to break with a new owner


That might make sense on a power boat, but not on a sailboat, where the engine can often cost as much or more than the boat. The Yanmar in question on this boat is going to be close to $20,000 at professionally installed(and is likely slightly under powered so if replacing perhaps upping to a bigger more expensive engine). Also sailboats tend to have engines that last reliably to 3,000 to 5,000 hours and that is a lot of years of use, while a fishing boat uses it engine for every hour it is out, sailboat my be out for days without using more than a half gallon of fuel and perhaps an hour of engine use. Not uncommon for a sailboat to have less than 50 hours of use. My 1975 sailboat is on the original engine and it runs fine. I may be moving to a hotter plug this season as it seems to be fouling the plugs a bit, but that is it. But the last owner kept it on a mooring and did not even start it up most days he took it out.


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## Jaramaz (Aug 9, 2013)

miatapaul said:


> The Yanmar in question on this boat is going to be close to $20,000 at professionally installed(and is likely slightly under powered so if replacing perhaps upping to a bigger more expensive engine). .


Oh my, you are all a positive bunch of guys here.

Cost suggested here is indeed very high, I really doubt it would cost this much. Even if up-grading. Then there are alternatives - other brands. If it need to be replaced at all, old Yanmars last forever (I have been waiting for mine to die ...).

I think this HC33 all pivots around the deck. If it is water saturated then it is considerable work to fix it. Otherwise it is possible if one wants to invest some time & work.

Having said that, HC series are all about nostalgia. No fun to sail. If you like polishing brass it is the boat for you. If you like sailing, look for something else. 
(Yes, I know. But it doesn't help. HC is about that, giving an (false) impression how it was long time ago. ).

And BTW, just the name. HC is to lead your thoughts to ...? Mr Andersen, perhaps?

/J


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

cool looking boats but I will second No Fun to Sail. they are fun to be on while sailing but really do not sail well at all. there is no going up wind. they will sort of go sideways. takes a lot of wind to get enough speed to tack. after you tack it excellerates like pedal power school bus.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Jaramaz said:


> Oh my, you are all a positive bunch of guys here.
> 
> Cost suggested here is indeed very high, I really doubt it would cost this much. Even if up-grading. Then there are alternatives - other brands. If it need to be replaced at all, old Yanmars last forever (I have been waiting for mine to die ...).
> 
> ...


Yanmar engine/transmission is going to be over $10,000 alone, so that is not all that much more to have it installed. Keep in mind when discussing these things you have to consider the professional cost, not what a DIY can do it for, because if you fail or run into difficulties in the middle of the job you better have enough to finish it!

Also it is 41 foot overall that is a lot of slip to pay for just to have a 33 foot boat!


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## ReefMagnet (May 8, 2008)

HC33's are nice. Seriously considered buying one not that long ago. It was in very good condition for it's age, but the teak decks, wood upkeep in general, 41 ft LOA and a little bit of an issue in getting to the batteries in a hurry (more than one HC33 has burnt to the waterline when batteries, or something near the batteries has failed) made me pass on it. Other than that, a very nice salty boat in general that I thought sailed ok with their intended purpose in mind.


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## Lazerbrains (Oct 25, 2015)

They are nice boats if getting out on the ocean is your goal. Don't confuse the 33 with the 34 - the 33 has a much larger cutaway keel and less keel/hull transition. It sails far better, and points higher than a Westsail. That being said, I still would pass on it at this price. Easy enough to find one in good condition.


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## Oregonian (Oct 4, 2011)

Just to set a record straight: lazerbrains says "It sails far better. and points higher than a Westsail" Well, I don't think so. In perhaps the only time that the two boats competed together, the 1990 Pacific Cup, the Westsail was obviously the faster boat. Due to lack of local knowledge, the Westsail made a very poor exit out of SF bay. but it quickly caught and passed both HC-33's, to weather. It ended up beating both HC-33's to Hawaii by 44hrs and 48hrs respectively. Boat for boat. That wasn't 2 hrs. It was 2 days.
This thread is not about the Westsails though. I know people who have made a very successful circumnavigation aboard a HC-33. Their boat performed flawlessly and cruised at pretty much the same speed as any other short boat out there. 
Thankyou


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## Lazerbrains (Oct 25, 2015)

Oregonian, that is a downwind sail, not an upwind sail. Sailing to Hawaii from SF has zero to do with pointing ability, and everything with setting your spinnaker, whisker pole, etc.


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## elliowb (Jun 8, 2015)

I recently purchased purchased a Crealock 34, and before finally finding the right boat, had looked at about two dozen or more boats ranging from 30k to over 100k. What I was finding in the low end of the price range is exactly what this HC looks like, buying someone else's problems. Even if you fix all that is already known to be wrong with the boat, you still have potentially hidden defects.

At the very least, if it has been neglected and water has been allowed to sit in the bilge or leak in the ports or a leaky mast, the woodwork on the interior is likely going to be warped. That's what I found on many boats that had had any sort of water leak, even a relatively modest one. The boat sits around, closed up and the humidity does it's damage. Further, my wife is highly allergic, and the mold and mildew that will develop on the undersides of the sole and other inaccessible places is impossible, or really difficult to remove/remediate.

Only way to really tell is to go down and have a look. However, I'd make sure that you had a number of other boats to look at in the area, so that you don't waste the trip on just one relatively unlikely candidate.

Besides, even though I bought a very well maintained and cared for/well-built boat, I'm still finding a way to spend a ton of cash on 'making her mine.' So if you want to do some work and a lot more sailing, get a newer/or better maintained boat. Spend the cash up front, there are still many opportunities to spend more if you have money burning a hole in your pocket.


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