# New England Ropes Synthetic lifelines?!?!



## NewportNewbie (Jul 30, 2011)

NEW ENGLAND ROPES STS-WR2 Heat Shrink Synthetic Lifeline, Clear at West Marine

Looks like New England ropes is now making a synthetic coated wire lifeline replacement. I was going to use Dyneema to do it, then saw this product in the latest WM mailer. Anyone see this or use it yet? Some if the people said that fuzzy lines was an issue, since this is coated, this shouldn't be an issue.


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

I used Dynemma last year. I put shroud covers over the front sections of the top lines to eliminate chafe from the jib. I wonder how you spice the coated stuff?


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I am interested in using Dynemma for my lifelines, but have some questions. What method did you use to splice the Dynemma? I've heard it doesn't splice securely. What fittings did you use for the gates and to tighten them?
Thanks


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

I used eye splices with thimbles and lashing lines on one end and eye splices with shackles on the other. I spliced in CS Johnson pelican hooks for gates. You need to make the lines about 6 or 8 inches short, as the line has some give as the strands bury. I followed the NE instructions to do the splices and stitch them.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

I would like to know a little more about it. the catalog does not have much. New England Ropes - Product Details


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

jsaronson said:


> I used eye splices with thimbles and lashing lines on one end and eye splices with shackles on the other. I spliced in CS Johnson pelican hooks for gates. You need to make the lines about 6 or 8 inches short, as the line has some give as the strands bury. I followed the NE instructions to do the splices and stitch them.


How do you figure out if it is 6 or 8 inches?
I'm assuming you just have to guess.
Do you just make it plenty short enough and make it up in the lashing end?


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

http://neropes.com/Splicing Guide Individual Splices/SINGLE_BRAID_EYE_SPLICE_BURY.pdf


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

David,
Your boat is a little smaller then mine (35) I'd think 6 inches would work bu you are right, you just have a longer lashing if you go shorter. It depends on how much you tension the line when you measure too.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Good Old Boat has a feature on this in the current issue.


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## svShearwater (Apr 1, 2013)

The NER WR2 is just double-braided Dyneema, which seems like an excellent choice for lifelines. You get the strength of Dyneema and additional chafe/sun protection by having the Dyneema cover. The only issue I have with this NER offering is the largest size is 5mm, meaning the core is less than 4mm, which does not meet the OSR requirements for larger boats (I don't recall the cutoff, but somewhere in the 35' range and up is 4mm minimum). If you don't care about OSR or for a smaller boat, then this may be a moot point, but the OSR is a good guide for offshore prep even if you aren't racing. 

Lancelin, a French company, makes a 6mm Dyneema double-braid with a 4mm core and the cover has reflective strands. That is the route we are taking.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Yes, the WR2 is 100% dyneema core and dyneema cover. It can be spliced same as any other core to core (class II) splice. Dyneema will hold a splice just fine but the burry needs to be 72 x the diameter of the rope for it to hold. 

I have a sample of it and I must say the white looks very sharp. I do hope people look into it for replacing their life lines. It's not exactly cheap. If you want cheap than the single braid in 1/4" will work great for 5+ years and is easy to install. I've done it on a few boats.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

With 1X19 stainless being so effective, with zero problems, and used boaters supplies being awash in the stuff for very cheap, why would you use anything else?


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Brent Swain said:


> With 1X19 stainless being so effective, with zero problems, and used boaters supplies being awash in the stuff for very cheap, why would you use anything else?


Weight,
Comfort,
Price,
Ease of installation,

I am sure I could come up with a few more but these are off the top of my head.


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## One (Mar 20, 2013)

Brent Swain said:


> With 1X19 stainless being so effective, with zero problems, and used boaters supplies being awash in the stuff for very cheap, why would you use anything else?


I, for one, don't see why anyone would continue to use wire for something like that, except that it's cheap and available anywhere and everywhere.

Some people have different priorities than cheapness and availability.


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

Stumble said:


> Weight,
> Comfort,
> Price,
> Ease of installation,
> ...


Meathooks! Especially if using old wire.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

+1, spectra is also much easier to inspect than wire. Wire basically gives very little warning that it will fail. It's looks great, then pop. You can visually see spectra breaking down over the years, hopefully motivating an owner to replace it.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

svShearwater said:


> The NER WR2 is just double-braided Dyneema, which seems like an excellent choice for lifelines. You get the strength of Dyneema and additional chafe/sun protection by having the Dyneema cover. The only issue I have with this NER offering is the largest size is 5mm, meaning the core is less than 4mm, which does not meet the OSR requirements for larger boats (I don't recall the cutoff, but somewhere in the 35' range and up is 4mm minimum). If you don't care about OSR or for a smaller boat, then this may be a moot point, but the OSR is a good guide for offshore prep even if you aren't racing.
> 
> Lancelin, a French company, makes a 6mm Dyneema double-braid with a 4mm core and the cover has reflective strands. That is the route we are taking.


Can you share a link to the product? - They make many, and I cannot find one with reflective strands.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Google is your friend...

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/4559794/1184478638/name/FILIERE+DYNEEMA+RETRO+REFLECHISSANTE_UK.pdf


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

Brent Swain said:


> With 1X19 stainless being so effective, with zero problems, and used boaters supplies being awash in the stuff for very cheap, why would you use anything else?


then you have never fallen against it with bare skin


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

overbored said:


> > Originally Posted by Brent Swain
> > With 1X19 stainless being so effective, with zero problems, and used boaters supplies being awash in the stuff for very cheap, why would you use anything else?
> 
> 
> then you have never fallen against it with bare skin


Which, if true, would point to the _FAR_ greater importance of the ability to safely move about your deck with alacrity - and the low probablity that Mr Swain will ever need to rely on a lifeline to "save" his life - than to the relative merits of wire vs. rope... (grin)


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

I've been using good old three strand for years with no problems. I sail traditional boats so it looks great, its cheap, easy to splice and lasts forever. My current boat has no lifelines which is another option.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

I've lost four freinds due to the lack of adequate lifelines on their boats. They found the boats , but not the sailors. Not having lifelines is not an option , unless one wants to be extremely foolish, and soon dead.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Stumble said:


> Weight,
> Comfort,
> Price,
> Ease of installation,
> ...


The weight difference is less than that of a case of beer left on deck.
The price of used 1x19 is probaly less than the cost of high tech fibre.
1x19 is extremely smooth, and offers zero discomfort. I find the peace of mind it gives far more comfortable than synthetic line. 
I havent found to hard to install, and once installed, you dont have to do it again for 30 years or more.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

One said:


> I, for one, don't see why anyone would continue to use wire for something like that, except that it's cheap and available anywhere and everywhere.
> 
> Some people have different priorities than cheapness and availability.


My first priority is safety, which stainless 1x19 lifelines give one far more of than any synthetics ; a daredevil stunt.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

jsaronson said:


> Meathooks! Especially if using old wire.


I've never seen a meathook on my 30 year old, 1/4 inch 1x19 stainless lifeline wire.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

overbored said:


> then you have never fallen against it with bare skin


How does one cross the Pacific many times without ever falling against ones lifelines with bare skin. Never been a problem for me. Dont wear a hell of a lot in the tropics, singlehanding.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Brent Swain said:


> My first priority is safety, which stainless 1x19 lifelines give one far more of than any synthetics ; a daredevil stunt.


How so? I guess your stainless life line will hold up better if you fall against them while wearing knife covered trousers, but otherwise the strength of both materials is very similar.


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

This is a really interesting conversation that started back when SS was starting to be used on boats, nobody believed it was safer than rope, funny how nothing ever changes that much.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Alex W said:


> How so? I guess your stainless life line will hold up better if you fall against them while wearing knife covered trousers, but otherwise the strength of both materials is very similar.


Chafe and UV resistance of stainless is far greater.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Brent Swain said:


> Chafe and UV resistance of stainless is far greater.


But it is prone to corrosion inside fittings that can't be inspected. Everything on the dyneema life line can be inspected, making it easy to check on chafe and UV degradation.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Brent Swain said:


> The weight difference is less than that of a case of beer left on deck.
> The price of used 1x19 is probaly less than the cost of high tech fibre.
> 1x19 is extremely smooth, and offers zero discomfort. I find the peace of mind it gives far more comfortable than synthetic line.
> I havent found to hard to install, and once installed, you dont have to do it again for 30 years or more.


Agreed the weight is marginal, but it adds up

I can make an entire set of lifelines for less than the cost of the fittings on one wire lifeline. Even assuming that the synthetic has to be replaced more often, it is significantly less expensive.

Ever had your leg hair ripped out by wire? Or had stitches from meat hooks? I have had both, and trying to put in your own stitches 500 miles from shore is a bit uncomfortable.

I don't think wire is particularly difficult to install, so long as you have your own crimper, and somewhere to roll out the wire. I can splice a set of dyneema lifelines up then toss them in my sailing bag.


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## NewportNewbie (Jul 30, 2011)

Brent Swain said:


> Chafe and UV resistance of stainless is far greater.


Maybe you didn't actually read about this rope. It's not just a strong rope that an be use for lifelines but NE ropes has designed it FOR lifelines. It's also covered so the core is strong while the cover is chafe an UV resistant.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

I replaced my coated wire with Dyneema a couple of years ago after noticing some cracks in the swaging and some corrosion through the coating. I did not want to worry about corrosion and swages again. They are light, strong, have no meathooks, and are a see-able quantity. There's no guessing about whether swages are good or not. The best solution would probably be eye-spliced bare wire. Brion Toss has a good method of splicing 1 x 19 wire in his book and a demonstration online. Brent is right about wire being tougher. You aren't going to slit it with a sharp edge. That's my main worry about the Dyneema. Once I become proficient at doing wire splices, I may start replacing all my swaged fittings, swageless and swaged, with splices.

As far as length of Dyneema lifelines goes, I would leave 6" and use lashing. That's what I did and it has worked out well. The lashing method allows adjustment for stretch. Dyneema does stretch over time. My 6" is down to about 5" now, maybe a little less. Another plus for Dyneema is being able to easily wrap them up and stow them in a locker. I spliced around 5/16" shackles at the gate ends. The shackles act as stops so that the gates, when secured put tension on the run.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

smurphny said:


> I replaced my coated wire with Dyneema a couple of years ago after noticing some cracks in the swaging and some corrosion through the coating. I did not want to worry about corrosion and swages again. They are light, strong, have no meathooks, and are a see-able quantity. There's no guessing about whether swages are good or not. The best solution would probably be eye-spliced bare wire. Brion Toss has a good method of splicing 1 x 19 wire in his book and a demonstration online. Brent is right about wire being tougher. You aren't going to slit it with a sharp edge. That's my main worry about the Dyneema. Once I become proficient at doing wire splices, I may start replacing all my swaged fittings, swageless and swaged, with splices.
> 
> As far as length of Dyneema lifelines goes, I would leave 6" and use lashing. That's what I did and it has worked out well. The lashing method allows adjustment for stretch. Dyneema does stretch over time. My 6" is down to about 5" now, maybe a little less. Another plus for Dyneema is being able to easily wrap them up and stow them in a locker. I spliced around 5/16" shackles at the gate ends. The shackles act as stops so that the gates, when secured put tension on the run.


For what it's worth Brion Toss is on record saying he nor his shop will install wire lifelines anymore. They will only use dyneema. The reasoning he gives is that he considers wire dangerous, more expensive, and harder to inspect.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

That's really the terrible truth about all swaged fittings--they cannot be visually inspected. There's no real way to know if water has penetrated, if corrosion has started, or for that fact, if the original crimp or installation has some sort of fault. These end terminals ALL give me the willies. My old furler has an integral Sta-Lok swageless base. I don't even like to think about it. Even all the new Suncor terminals I used when replacing the shrouds and stays don't give me the confidence that a sturdy, visible eye splice would. I would like to know what percentage of end terminals fail and for what reasons.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Evans Starzinger just posted a first draft of his take on this subject over on CA...

As always from he and Beth, an excellent, informed analysis and recommendations...

http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/lifelines.pdf


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## FirstCandC (Mar 26, 2013)

What if you use some of the existing hardware, such as the turnbuckles (in lieu of lashings)? I love the look of the dyneema, but I hate to get rid of all of my hardware.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

FirstCandC said:


> What if you use some of the existing hardware, such as the turnbuckles (in lieu of lashings)? I love the look of the dyneema, but I hate to get rid of all of my hardware.


You can use it if you want. Johnson makes a very nice threaded eye that fits their standard gate hardware, they just want an arm and a leg for it. I probably wouldn't keep the turnbuckles, but the over center gate hooks are still commonly used.


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## paul323 (Mar 13, 2010)

I need to replace my lifelines and am considering the WR2 system...any suggested resources showing the best way to implement them? In particular I am interested in the best way to manage the gate. My current wire system has the typical double rings, I assume to maintain tension when the gate is open...I wonder if this is even necessary; a long line with a thimble forward (for tensioning) and a pelican hook (with rope adaptor) at the other end would be simplest (and cheapest). Any suggestions or best practices would be appreciated!

TIA!


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Paul,
You might want to ask your question in a separate thread. Some people stop reading when the threads get too long.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

I'm still here. Yes you can use a thimble as your 'gate tension', just make sure that when you splice the line around the thimble you can still fit it through the stanchion. You'll probably still need to find a way to adjust for constructional stretch. 

It'll be a little challenging. You may need to remove a stanchion near the gate to splice the line, then pull on the stanchion and reinstall.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Stumble said:


> Agreed the weight is marginal, but it adds up
> 
> I can make an entire set of lifelines for less than the cost of the fittings on one wire lifeline. Even assuming that the synthetic has to be replaced more often, it is significantly less expensive.
> 
> ...


Nicopress sleeves cost a couple of bucks each, Wire is supoer cheap, I have had a lot given to me. My 1x19 SS has had zero meat hooks in 29 years of use.


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