# Florida Sailing - East or Gulf coast?



## Mattbastard (Jun 18, 2017)

I've done some Googling and nothing's really jumping out at me so I'll ask

I have a professional opportunity in Florida that isn't specific to any city, but there is offices in Pompano Beach and Tampa, one of which I'll work out of. Since being in San Diego I got my Keelboat Cert, but never took it any further mostly due to costs of slips here in SD (and the crappy cold ocean). And, my folks retired in Ft. Myers so that's a draw too. 

Basically, which coast is better for sailing? I've looked all over the Fort Lauderdale and Miami areas on Google Satellite and there's a few marinas, but all the ones closer to the ICW have HUGE slip fees because they're attached to a 5 diamond resort and can fit 150' ships. From what I can see all the smaller marinas are inland a ways and I'm not seeing any sailboats. Is that because of all the bridges they'd encounter to get to the ocean? 

Thanks everyone.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

The Indiantown Marina in Indiantown Florida is 20 miles Inland from the Atlantic coast, has sailboats, and is accessible to the ocean via the Saint Lucie Waterway


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Pretty close to shore on the east coast is the Gulfstream, one of the most treacherous bodies of water on the planet. It is often benign; only a strong north bound current, but when it's not, it can be most unpleasant. There are plenty of navigable inlets on the east coast, safe in any weather, and a few not so much. Generally, the AICW makes for easy travel north and south in sheltered water, but outside you are pretty much ocean sailing, with few places to anchor in sheltered water. The Bahamas are of course easily accessed from the east coast, just a 49 mile day sail, in good weather fromLauderdale.
The west coast is completely different. Many of the inlets can shift with a passing front, the waters inside the barrier islands can be pretty skinny in many places. Tampa Bay has a pretty big inside harbor, with lots of shallow water and a deep water shipping channel. Offshore on the west coast can be as shallow as 60 feet, 40 miles or more from the coast. Afternoon summer thunderstorms can whip this shallow water into a frenzy that may inhibit future trips out sailing off the coast, for some time. Access to and from the Keys and Key West is much easier from the west coast than the east coast.
I'd venture the west coast has cheaper dockage and more places along the coast to keep your boat than the east coast, but that may quickly be coming to an end as the condo developers buy marinas and privatize them.
There is a waterway between St Lucie and Fort Meyers that one can use to cross the state, should you keep your boat on the west coast and wish to take a trip to the Bahamas, without going down to the Keys on your way.
Again, investing in a cruising guide to any area you are considering would be a good idea, with much more detailed info than I or anybody has the time to put into a post.


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

Having lived on the east coast of Florida, and had our boat first in Miami--at the Miami Beach Marina--and later in Ft. Lauderdale, across from the Lauderdale Yacht Club; and, having now lived on the west coast of Florida, in the Sarasota area, with our boat on the Manatee River on the southeast side of Tampa Bay (and cruised from Tampa to the Keys), there is no comparison. The west coast is far more interesting and amenable for sailing, whether in the Gulf, or in one of the inland bays/estuaries. We also found a distinct difference in the populace with folks on the west coast generally being far more friendly and welcoming than we did on the east. I suspect that may have more to do with where they originally came from, those on the east side being, primarily from the northeast while those on the west coast being, until recently primarily from the mid-west. Lastly, having relocated to Florida from California, on the west coast the "ocean" is on the "right" side with proper sunsets over the water!

FWIW...

PS: For sure this comment will be rebutted...Different Ships, Different Long Splices, eh?

PPS: Note that while there are areas of "thin" water on the west coast, we draw 6.5' and with few exceptions have had little difficulty. Some passes merely take a bit more planning/timing.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

svHyLyte said:


> PPS: Note that while there are areas of "thin" water on the west coast, we draw 6.5' and with few exceptions have had little difficulty. Some passes merely take a bit more planning/timing.


You are far enough south. There is no point to venturing north of Tarpon Springs in a sailboat.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I will be bringing my sailboat (5.6' draft, and 47' air draft) from Narragansett Bay to Ft Myers, FL next fall. My plan is to transit the Okeechobee Waterway (St Lucie River => Lake Okeechobee => Caloosahatchee). For the past 4 years, I had been teaching sailing of Ft Myers Beach and Captiva Island in order to familiarize myself with the waters. (I'd still be doing it if I was willing to work for $16/hr.)

The west coast has beautiful sunsets, fewer highrise cities, Dry Tortugas, Key West and Tampa/Clearwater bays are easily accessible, and the Gulf of Mexico provides lots of areas of interest for me to investigate.


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## Davy J (Mar 25, 2017)

For me, the east coast has only two advantages over the west coast. One, because of the Gulf stream the water is clearer and if you are a diver this is an advantage. Two, if you want to hop over to the Bahamas they are right there.

The negatives, especially for Pompano Beach would be that your sailing venue would be only the Atlantic and transiting the AICW. Slips seem more expensive, much higher population and as mentioned some seem very “unhappy”.

The west coast has tremendous anchorages from Tarpon Springs all the way down to the Keys. Distinct areas to explore. Clearwater to St Pete Beach, Boca Ciega Bay. Tampa Bay and downtown St Petersburg. Sarasota Bay. Charlotte Harbor, Pine Island Sound, Cayo Costa, Sanibel and Fort Myers Beach. The Keys and Dry Tortugas. All of it connected by the GICW and the Gulf of Mexico.

As mentioned we do get afternoon thunder storms in the summer that can be as bad as a mini hurricane. We deal with that by sailing in the morning and being off the water by about 3:00 pm. It gets hot on the west coast, really hot………. However, April, May and June are spectacular.

Sunsets were mentioned and won’t disappoint. Slips are less expensive, however, as of late, seem to be filling up fast. 

I think there are many other advantages, but those are just the sailing related things.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The pros and cons of the two coasts seem to be pretty well covered. It depends on what you're looking for.

Crossing the Okeechobee waterway is air draft limited and a very long motor (130nm). Two long daylight days to transit. I'm not intimately familiar, but I assume that storms cause damage that jam it up with some frequency. It's a cool resource, but I wouldn't consider it a practical way to experience both coasts at will.

I have family on the East Coast. Personally, I highly prefer the ability to sail to offshore destinations, especially if that involves another country, like the Bahamas. Even in New England, I prefer to sail out to one of the islands. I enjoy the exposed offshore sailing, much more than inland. Less traffic and the conditions are more challenging. When we arrive, it feels more like an adventure or that we got much further away than we really did. I've certainly ghosted the length of Narragansett Bay, with 5 kts of wind and enjoyed that at times too. To each their own.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

I am prejudiced living on the West Coast in Clearwater. 

A number of folks do use the Okeechobee waterway to skip the trip around the coast on a fairly regular basis though you do have to be cautious they tell me when drought conditions leave the lake a bit low so you really need at those times especially to stay in the marked channel across the lake to the next lock. 

There are still slips in the area that go for $100 a month however with the temps here already in the low 80's and headed for the mid 80's next week (last full week in February) you will likely want a slip with power to run an air conditioner. Forecast is for the next three days to be excellent sailing days too. 

Be sure to get a shoal draft or swing keel vessel and a depth sounder since as mentioned there are many shifting features that remain uncharted due to that and the waters can get quite skinny in places. 

Consider lightning protection too. I know a number of folks who have had their boats totaled by lightening strikes because they did not have a good system (really no system) in place. One local insisted on storing his boat on a high rack so he would not have to take down the mast and guess what happened? Lightning that struck the mast sticking way up above the tallest buildings in the area exiting the hull at various touch points on the storage rack at the marina making it a total loss.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

We sailed western Florida from Pensacola down to Ft. Myers. I think our favorite place overall was St. Pete. Really a cool, laid-back town - and the water was clear and nice. We kept the boat in the Ft. Myers/Pt. Charlotte area for over a year. The marina/storage prices were great down there (seems like the perfect "middle ground"), but the water is the brown, swampy stuff. That said, Charlotte Harbor is a pretty good daysailing area - and the keys are only an overnight sail away. So, all in all, it's a good spot.

As said above, the bridge clearances are the main issue with crossing at the Caloosahatchee is bridge clearance. Our air draft was 57' - so we couldn't do it. Even so, my preference is to get out in the ocean - not stay in the ditch.

Here's a guide for the area...

https://www.waterwayguide.com/explo...ngitude=-81.9964599609375&zoom=12&mode=bridge


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## Mattbastard (Jun 18, 2017)

Great feedback everyone, thank you. 

It sounds to me like the Gulf coast would be better. Yes the wife and I would like to try the Bahamas at some point, but adding a few days on each end for the Okb waterway sounds like the answer. 

Not to mention, of all the marina's I could find on Google Maps, none of the East Coast ones had posted slip rates on their websites (other than the Indiantown Marina mentioned above, which was surprisingly $500/mo). I found two in Bradenton right on the Manatee River for around $300. I'm sure there are many others I'm not noticing, but that's from my cursory inspection from a satellite picture of the area. $300 is much more my speed.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

To add:

Do not make the decision based on the two day motor through the state as that will not always be available. Instead assume to visit the Bahamas the way is around the Keys. You are locked in the Gulf on the West Coast. 

First , I have owned a condo in Sanibel for 20 years . I like it there. I like the laid back nature although I have seen that changing over the last 20 years as the east coast got crowded. 

I don’t find a difference in people because mid west moved to west coast and ne people were on the east coast and therefore the west coast was friendlier. When people took vacations for a week from those areas they went to which area / beach was closer to where they lived and could drive to with a car full of kids. That’s why years ago you saw the demographics that way. The west coast 20 years ago was less developed. As the land became pricier on the east coast and properties became scarce the west coast became a more attractive place. Also this will equalize. And already has begun to with property values.

The east coast has more cultural advantages with beautiful cities like St Augustine, Jacksonville, Palm Beach and Miami for example. West coast it’s only Tampa - St Pete area. 

West Coast has many more closure anchorages. East coast inlets to cities. The sailing May seem confined vs east coast. West coast long mileage of 60 ft water in the Gulf. Large TStorms . East coast is all offshore. However it is a gateway not on for a short trip to the Bahamas and the rest of the Carribean, but heading north is St Augustine, Savannah, Charleston, North Carolina, Chesapeake, LISound . You could get help moving your boat and visit those areas. West Coast your locked into Gulf. And it many oil rigs. 

Nothing said about this . I would also look at Hurricane History. West coast is more affected. You have the Gulf season for months and then the storms which traverse the Florida peninsula. East coast gets hit, but the effects from June-Oct on the WestCoast are greater than the East Coast. For me that’s a major point as this occurs a lot and you’ll want to be able to get your sailboat out of harms way so choose your marina carefully. This issue is omnipresent when keeping a boat in Florida.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

West coast !!!!!!!!!!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

No worries Matt.

I think chef2sail is overstating things a bit...

As for being able to cut across the Caloosahatchee, I don't know how often that option is not available (or why it closes apart from serious storms or other rare events) - but I've never heard that it's frequently inaccessible (if, that is, your air draft is less than 54'). Anyway, not a problem with a little planning I would think.

As for cultural access, remember, it's an easy drive across. I always flew into Ft. Lauderdale even though my boat was in Port Charlotte because it was just a $99 flight from Austin, then rented a car and drove across. Just a couple of hours. No biggie. It was definitely worth the savings over keeping the boat on the east coast.

As for storms - yes they are like clockwork in the summer - we got hit by a lot of them offshore. But they are typically fairly short-lived and perfectly manageable if you have a good boat and know what you're doing.

As for rigs, you really don't start getting into them until you get much farther west nearer to New Orleans. I've sailed virtually the entire northern Gulf of Mexico from Mexico to South Florida - so I know rigs. Just look at your charts.

As for hurricanes, we were hit by Irma while stored on the hard in Port Charlotte and did fine. I did a pretty extensive overview of hurricanes in the video below - and I don't think you'll find the west coast particularly more vulnerable than the east since you're only looking at about 140 miles across the entire peninsula. I show the historical paths of storms and I think you'll see what I mean.






Bottom line, I actually think that if you prefer sailing offshore rather than in the ditch, you just can't beat the west coast for all there is within a couple days' sail in some very, very beautiful waters - without having to deal with the Stream. Then if you want to run across the Bahamas you're in a very good position to come up the Keys and push across. All good times.

Lots of factors to consider. But if cost is a driving force - it's a pretty easy decision.


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

Whatever you do make sure and follow Ian's advise and stay South of Tampa. North Florida is just a bunch of ******* Florida Crackers. Avoid the Panhandle at all costs. The Panhandle doesn't even have paved roads and the marinas if you can call them that are filled with old gaff rigged work boats and decrepit old schooners. The Beaches are nasty and cluttered with dilapidated shanties. The weather and the bugs are horrible. Yes, by all means avoid the Panhandle altogether and tell everyone you know to avoid it as well. Some places are best left to the heathen natives.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I’ve never crossed the entire Caloosahatchi waterway all the way to the Atlantic , but have helped moved my friends Trawler from Cape Coral to Lake Okkachobie one year. There are 5 different locks, lots of floated deadheads and sunk boats along the way. Most of my sailing friends who live in Ft Myers or in Sanibel where I have my condo have told me that they go to the Keys to go to the Bahamas as it’s not only a hasstle with the all the obstacles, their masts are too high, the heat is unbearable and the bugs inland are more than unbearable.

As far as Tropical storm formation use the logic. They need water temps for fuel to be at a certain level which the Gulf provides 6 months of the year. The season starts in the Gulf, then the Yucatán and eventually moves to the Cape Verde which is where most of the east coast hurricanes have come from, however there have been far more systems in the Gulf though not all take direct aim at Florida. It was just an observation that’s all. Also my friend who works for NOAA explained to me one day as we were sailing on his Hunter 38. Thunderstorm formation on the Gulf is a daily thing in the afternoon and a watchful eye must be present .

None of that says you can’t sail the Gulf as many of my friends enjoy their sailing there. I spent time there also and enjoyed my sailing time there. Let us know what you decide and how it works out for you.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

chef2sail said:


> As far as Tropical storm formation use the logic. They need water temps for fuel to be at a certain level which the Gulf provides 6 months of the year. The season starts in the Gulf, then the Yucatán and eventually moves to the Cape Verde which is where most of the east coast hurricanes have come from, however there have been far more systems in the Gulf though not all take direct aim at Florida. It was just an observation that's all. Also my friend who works for NOAA explained to me one day as we were sailing on his Hunter 38.


How much beer had your NOAA friend had? Heh. Let's look at the facts...

Here are all hurricane tracks from 1960-2016 with the counties hit most during that time in progressively darker red...










And here are all the tropical storm tracks during the same period with the same color coding.










The Tampa area is a lot better off than the whole east coast until you get north of Orlando where it's basically the same. And even the Ft. Myers area further south is better off than most of the east coast as well.

So even according to NOAA, the west coast is a better bet.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

chef2sail said:


> I've never crossed the entire Caloosahatchi waterway all the way to the Atlantic , but have helped moved my friends Trawler from Cape Coral to Lake Okkachobie one year. There are 5 different locks, lots of floated deadheads and sunk boats along the way. Most of my sailing friends who live in Ft Myers or in Sanibel where I have my condo have told me that they go to the Keys to go to the Bahamas as it's not only a hasstle with the all the obstacles, their masts are too high, the heat is unbearable and the bugs inland are more than unbearable.
> 
> As far as Tropical storm formation use the logic. They need water temps for fuel to be at a certain level which the Gulf provides 6 months of the year. The season starts in the Gulf, then the Yucatán and eventually moves to the Cape Verde which is where most of the east coast hurricanes have come from, however there have been far more systems in the Gulf though not all take direct aim at Florida. It was just an observation that's all. Also my friend who works for NOAA explained to me one day as we were sailing on his Hunter 38. Thunderstorm formation on the Gulf is a daily thing in the afternoon and a watchful eye must be present .
> 
> None of that says you can't sail the Gulf as many of my friends enjoy their sailing there. I spent time there also and enjoyed my sailing time there. Let us know what you decide and how it works out for you.


Not to be argumentative, but one year I crossed on a 71'shrimp boat and all the locks were open; low water or something. Water was pretty skinny on the west side of the lake, but even w/an 8' draft we got through OK. 
I'm guessing that trip can have a lot of variables, from what some are saying on this thread.
Another case of, 'Do you feel lucky, punk?'. Ain't yachting fun?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

smackdaddy said:


> How much beer had your NOAA friend had? Heh. Let's look at the facts...
> 
> Here are all hurricane tracks from 1960-2016 with the counties hit most during that time in progressively darker red...
> 
> ...


Interesting spin on the facts. Your own cut and paste examples obviously show many more Hurricane. Tracks in the Gulf compared to the east coast let alone the many tropical storms etc. I don't think I ever said actual Hurricane hits

most of us also realize it's the effects of the water ie: storm surge which plays havoc in any tropical cyclone, even those not named hurricanes as seen in these tracks. A storm 400 miles away can creat huge surges and certainly a body of water like the gulf which is fairly shallow and surrounded on three sides one past Key West the effect of surge and wave action can be accentuated than an open body of water. Only advantage may be the general fetch when these storms are distance away.

One the tropical system enter the gulf .....watch out.

I am not here to argue with you I trust a lifelong meteorologist who works at the hurricane center who I sail with in Miami, than the average joe sailor. His PROFESSIONAL opinion is that there were far more issues related to tropical storms regRding activity and water damage in the gulf area.

Obviously it did not prevent me from buying on Sanibel 20 years ago. Since I have owned the property it has been hit numerous times . Twice in 2004 with TS Bonnie followed a few Days later by Hurricane Charley as direct hits. In between there were numerous hurricanes hit the Florida panhandle and Miss including KAtrina which cause very high water levels around the condo. Last year of course Irma, . Glad you vessel survived with minimal damage. Many on the west coast of Florida did not.

Anyone, no matter where they keep their boat in Florida needs to pay attention to tropical storm formations May through October. Areas where the water temps are 80+ degrees such as the Gulf continue to fuel the intensity of hurricanes and tropical storms.

Is it a criteria for keeping a boat there. That's up to you. There are many factors which are used for where to land you boat. Even more to where I will live. As I approach retirement and decide where to live . I ruled out this area . One of the main factors was the danger of storms,


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## RTB (Mar 5, 2009)

contrarian said:


> Whatever you do make sure and follow Ian's advise and stay South of Tampa. North Florida is just a bunch of ******* Florida Crackers. Avoid the Panhandle at all costs. The Panhandle doesn't even have paved roads and the marinas if you can call them that are filled with old gaff rigged work boats and decrepit old schooners. The Beaches are nasty and cluttered with dilapidated shanties. The weather and the bugs are horrible. Yes, by all means avoid the Panhandle altogether and tell everyone you know to avoid it as well. Some places are best left to the heathen natives.


Right! No need to check out Panama City, Port St. Joe, Apalachicola, or Carrabelle. Favorite anchorage - Dog Island. Move along.....nothing to see here.

Ralph


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

RTB said:


> Right! No need to check out Panama City, Port St. Joe, Apalachicola, or Carrabelle. Favorite anchorage - Dog Island. Move along.....nothing to see here.
> 
> Ralph


RALPHO!!!!!!! How are you doing, man!?!?!? It's great to see you around.

Now THIS is a guy who knows something about Florida and beyond! How are you guys?


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## RTB (Mar 5, 2009)

smackdaddy said:


> As for being able to cut across the Caloosahatchee, I don't know how often that option is not available (or why it closes apart from serious storms or other rare events) - but I've never heard that it's frequently inaccessible (if, that is, your air draft is less than 54').


Port Mayaca is the limiting vertical clearance at 49'. Okeechobee Waterway Bridges Clearances and Restrictions

Not sure why you'd do the Okeechobee unless on a tight schedule. A couple of my favorite anchorages are in the Everglades. The Keys are awesome. Why avoid the best of what Florida has to offer?

West coast vs East coast? Hard to choose. Both have their advantages. But, no way I'm spending hurricane season in Florida. There are better options. Just above 30.5* N (which seems to make some insurance companies happy) on the east coast, is a marina in Brunswick, Georgia. My new Home Port away from Home Port, where I can easily get to the Bahamas or the Chesapeake. No need to move, if you need to stay put for work. A neat historical area, where you can go to St. Augustine or Savannah/Charleston in a couple of days (inside or outside), with no crab posts or oil rigs.

It's pretty hard to find the PERFECT spot to keep a boat, within a hurricane box. It's a crap shoot, really. The last marina we were at in Texas 2015 took a direct hit with Harvey last season. Cove Harbor in Rockport which took a direct hit and is history. Fortunately, where I am now on the East Coast survived Matthew and Irma. Bottom line, you can't choose an area or a coast without considering hurricane season, especially if you plan to stay long term.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Okeechobee maximum height off the water is 55 feet. Billy the boat leaner will meet you near the Port Mayacca bridge and heal youtr boat with barrel filled with water to allow for the 49-foot vertical clearance.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

eherlihy said:


> Okeechobee maximum height off the water is 55 feet. Billy the boat leaner will meet you near the Port Mayacca bridge and heal youtr boat with barrel filled with water to allow for the 49-foot vertical clearance.


Not in a freaking thousand years would I try that once. 

I've seen it done. Reminds me of my favorite *******'s last words. "Hold my beer and watch this....."


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

Minnewaska said:


> Not in a freaking thousand years would I try that once.
> 
> I've seen it done. Reminds me of my favorite *******'s last words. "Hold my beer and watch this....."


If there are a dozen folks watching the barrel leaning from the back porch and four cases of Pabst Blue Ribbon are set on it how many hound dogs would be killed if/when the porch collapses from the additional weight. ;>

If Billy knows the answer right off then you might be OK.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

RTB said:


> Port Mayaca is the limiting vertical clearance at 49'. Okeechobee Waterway Bridges Clearances and Restrictions
> 
> Not sure why you'd do the Okeechobee unless on a tight schedule. A couple of my favorite anchorages are in the Everglades. The Keys are awesome. Why avoid the best of what Florida has to offer?
> 
> ...


Brunswick is precisely the area we are also looking about in retirement for all the advantages you mentioned. Besides the huge tides what are the disadvantages?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

chef2sail said:


> Interesting spin on the facts. Your own cut and paste examples obviously show many more Hurricane....


Spin on the facts? Really chef?










Look, you and a few others in The Posse have thrown this silly "cut and paste" thing in my direction for years now. And I've let it go for a long time. But let me take a moment now to explain something very important to you guys...

*"Cut and paste" is a good thing. It NEGATES "spin".*

When someone makes a point and *can back it up with actual documentation from NOAA* (as an example), AND has the ability to provide that evidence directly in the post using the aforementioned "cut and paste" technique (which befuddles many less technical people) - it means that person has a very good idea what he is talking about.

This, in turn, means the OP who has asked for factual advice in his thread can more fully trust that response, because the person providing the advice *is also providing the facts behind it for the OP and all others to see*. He doesn't just expect everyone to take his word for it because he said so.

*This is precisely the opposite of "spin", chef. *

The OP and/or less experienced sailors can learn a thing or two from the facts this more informed sailor is providing. That's exactly what sailing forums should be about: Discussing and learning *facts* regarding the many aspects of sailing (as well as just general jacking around). Opinions and hearsay are okay, but will only get you so far in sailing...then you get in over your head and have to call the CG because you thought you knew what you were doing - but didn't.

I mean, do you like your charts to be factual or just hearsay and opinion?

I don't expect *any* less experienced sailor to simply take my word for anything...simply because I have more miles under my keel than they, or because my feelings will get hurt if someone points out errors in what I'm saying, or because I put myself out there as some kind of self-proclaimed "expert" and, therefore, think I should never be challenged by anyone.

*THAT* is spin. And unfortunately there's far too much of it on sailing forums.

I expect other sailors to take my word for something when they see and weigh the evidence I provide for what I'm saying. *That's how learning works*.

You guys look at your "cut and paste" accusation as an insult. And that's the problem. I don't care how many miles or years a forum posting sailor claims to have; if what he is saying is wrong - it is wrong.

So, I encourage you and others to cut and paste some facts every once in a while if you feel compelled to make a point. That helps everyone learn and makes the whole forum a better place.


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## Davy J (Mar 25, 2017)

You fellas can argue about it all you want..................

The simple fact is the Tampa Bay area is protected by Indian sacrifices......

Did local Indian mounds save Tampa Bay from Irma's worst? Some say yes | tbo.com

Tampa's hurricane blessing: 92 years of misses, and counting | tbo.com

Legend names Indians in storm-safety theory - News - Sarasota Herald-Tribune - Sarasota, FL

Tampa Bay, safest place in Florida......................:cut_out_animated_em


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Davy J said:


> You fellas can argue about it all you want..................
> 
> The simple fact is the Tampa Bay area is protected by Indian sacrifices......
> 
> Tampa Bay, safest place in Florida.........


What's funny - and a bit scary - is that the NOAA data tends to somewhat agree.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

Davy J said:


> You fellas can argue about it all you want..................
> 
> The simple fact is the Tampa Bay area is protected by Indian sacrifices......
> 
> ...


As a programmer who spent a good many years working with NAV Systems, GPS Maps and Wind/Drift Tracking I am more inclined to believe its topography especially that bump we call Iron Mountain they helps breakup storm hits to the north and south of the Tampa Bay. Most fun stuff was the stuff we still can't talk about except to say it was fun to work on and that's the obsolete stuff from 20 years ago. I can only imagine how much more fun things are today.

Was that vague enough?


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## solarfry (Sep 6, 2008)

I visit the South East Coast a lot. In summer there are thunderstorms and lots of wind after 1 or 2 PM almost daily. The rest of the time it is dry. Biscayne Bay and the keys are large but like Tampa bay full of shallow water and reefs. You run aground and if Law Enforcement ( 6 different agencies ) catch you they will cite you for damaging the reefs/sand/grass/whatever. The fines are large (6 to 7 figures). Be careful where you anchor.

The West Coast seems to be cheaper for sailors and with more opportunities. The East Coast favors large high speed motorboats and yachts. In West Coast The Storms seem to push the water into the bays and cause lots of flooding. So if you want to live waterfront get a stilts house or one at least 8' above the high tide.

As you already know. Salaries suck in FL unless you have connections and good friends. They seem to believe they pay with sunshine.

It is a lot cheaper to live in FL than So. CA. CA is always bankrupt and begging for tax raises for one "worthy" cause or another. CA Sales tax approaches 10 and will go to 12% pretty soon.

When you got to downtown Tampa have a local show you the mark from one of the storms. About 12' from ground level.

Good luck .


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

smackdaddy said:


> Spin on the facts? Really chef?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Daddy
Thank you for the lesson ....the great and wonderful Oz has spoken

Your reputation is earned only by you. 
Your attacking style to other posters is legendary...and has earned you a banning for a while. Another of your styles earned only by you

For you to chide me about turning away new sailors or their questions is like the proverbial..." if you live in a glass house"

My use of the word "spin" pales in comparison to comments you have made to others and myself.

The NOAA map you presented was 1 - only named storm tracks and 2 - showed a whole ton of spaghetti in the entire gulf which affects the west coast of Florida and very few tracks in the Atlantic.and therefore was what I said initially

There are many good posters on here. When you have conflict with one of them you get this kind of War and Peace reply you are so famous for.

Lighten up, it was a thread about advice on criteria the OP wanted to hear that he may not have considered. He can filter through the criteria which he deems relevant to him


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

chef2sail said:


> Daddy
> Thank you for the lesson ....the great and wonderful Oz has spoken


You're welcome. Carry on.


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

Maybe sail and live on the Gulf side, and charter from the east coast now and then to go out to the Bahamas? On the east coast, which I visit as a landlubber, I don't see many sails offshore, and the (non-dinghy) sailboats you see just inland are almost all under power, heading somewhere else in a hurry. Stuart and Port St Lucie is a little more "homey" feeling than the cities farther south. 

I wouldn't know, but if you come (much) farther west, the "******* Riviera" from Waveland Miss to Destin-ish, is fun and not too expensive. Hurricanes still a big issue. But you get to live in New Orleans if you want, and cruise east ;-)


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

Regarding this debate about weather and whether the east or west coast of Florida are more prone to Tropical Wind Storms and/or Hurricanes, I do not have any specific scientific data to offer although some statistics can be found at Tampa Florida Hurricanes. Notably, according to the foregoing, of the 117 Hurricanes that have reportedly hit Florida in recorded history, only 15 have hit near Tampa (12.8%) and only a few have caused major damage (although "major" is a relative term depending upon whether one escaped with no or only minor losses; or, with major losses). It would appear that Cape Hatteras, NC, seems to hold the USA record for storm hits.

That said, having lived in the Sarasota area since 1994, it has been our experience that while threatened by storms, most seem to veer around the area, either to the west (due I suspect to a persistent blob of cooler water that seems to hang out to the west of the Tampa Bay area during the season--cooler again being relative) or to the east where the consequential wind directions and effects are lessened. N'any case, I don't have a ready explanation but I do know that, given the alternatives I feel we're fairly secure here abouts and more so than we would be on the east coast by a good deal.

IMHO....


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

solarfry said:


> I visit the South East Coast a lot. In summer there are thunderstorms and lots of wind after 1 or 2 PM almost daily. The rest of the time it is dry. Biscayne Bay and the keys are large but like Tampa bay full of shallow water and reefs. You run aground and if Law Enforcement ( 6 different agencies ) catch you they will cite you for damaging the reefs/sand/grass/whatever. The fines are large (6 to 7 figures). Be careful where you anchor.
> 
> The West Coast seems to be cheaper for sailors and with more opportunities. The East Coast favors large high speed motorboats and yachts. In West Coast The Storms seem to push the water into the bays and cause lots of flooding. So if you want to live waterfront get a stilts house or one at least 8' above the high tide.
> 
> ...


That's why I skipped Tampa and live in Pinellas County in an area almost 100 feet above sea level. You do have to choose wisely.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

I can't imagine living on the southeast coast of Florida. I'd go insane both in terms of livability and sailing opportunity. I grew up visiting grandparents in Boynton Beach every winter and just really hate that whole tangled mess of ugly that is over-built on every single square foot of land for miles and miles in every direction and really no way to escape from it. You can drive for hours and it's all the same. As for sailing, where do you go? Once you actually wind your through the canals and under bridges and out an inlet, I guess you can have a nice sail on a nice day but really there's no where to go unless you're looking to take off for a week or more. I love love love the Bahamas, and would love to be able to visit regularly, but it's not like you're gonna pop over for the weekend in a sailboat. Honestly, I'd probably prefer a go-fast center console with a small cuddy if I had to live in that area, so that I could do the Bahamas for the weekend.

I've also spent time in Sarasota/Anna Maria Island/Clearwater, and it's way better than the SE side but still I find it pretty uninteresting and overcrowded as a place to base a boat and live.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

svHyLyte said:


> Regarding this debate about weather and whether the east or west coast of Florida are more prone to Tropical Wind Storms and/or Hurricanes, I do not have any specific scientific data to offer although some statistics can be found at Tampa Florida Hurricanes. Notably, according to the foregoing, of the 117 Hurricanes that have reportedly hit Florida in recorded history, only 15 have hit near Tampa (12.8%) and only a few have caused major damage (although "major" is a relative term depending upon whether one escaped with no or only minor losses; or, with major losses). It would appear that Cape Hatteras, NC, seems to hold the USA record for storm hits.
> 
> That said, having lived in the Sarasota area since 1994, it has been our experience that while threatened by storms, most seem to veer around the area, either to the west (due I suspect to a persistent blob of cooler water that seems to hang out to the west of the Tampa Bay area during the season--cooler again being relative) or to the east where the consequential wind directions and effects are lessened. N'any case, I don't have a ready explanation but I do know that, given the alternatives I feel we're fairly secure here abouts and more so than we would be on the east coast by a good deal.
> 
> IMHO....


That certainly seems to be consistent with the NOAA data above, HyLyte.

Again, regardless of the number of tracks shown, I think what some are missing is that those NOAA maps, with those red color coded sections, show which counties receive the most hurricane and TS strikes (the darker the more active). That's really the important take-away, and it aligns very well with your own observations. I think the answer is pretty clear if you just know how to read the data.


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

Aside from Biscayne Bay and a few hold outs in Ft Lauderdale, there really isn't much of a sailing culture in SE Florida. The West coast has many more clubs and generally much better weekend sailing.

Check into "Sail Time"...they have monthly rentals available in Punta Gorda and Tampa. They're trying to open one in Miami also, but I don't think there is nearly as much interest in SE Florida as there is on the West Coast.

I live in Boynton Beach, just a bit North of Pompano, I used to dock my boat near Singer Island and sail out of the Lake Worth inlet....There's no bridge which is nice, but there is a ton of impatient sport fisherman that tend to churn up some pretty big wakes within the inlet on weekends.

I grew up sailing near Bradenton....as was said earlier - there really is no comparison.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

svHyLyte said:


> Regarding this debate about weather and whether the east or west coast of Florida are more prone to Tropical Wind Storms and/or Hurricanes, I do not have any specific scientific data to offer although some statistics can be found at Tampa Florida Hurricanes. Notably, according to the foregoing, of the 117 Hurricanes that have reportedly hit Florida in recorded history, only 15 have hit near Tampa (12.8%) and only a few have caused major damage (although "major" is a relative term depending upon whether one escaped with no or only minor losses; or, with major losses). It would appear that Cape Hatteras, NC, seems to hold the USA record for storm hits.
> 
> That said, having lived in the Sarasota area since 1994, it has been our experience that while threatened by storms, most seem to veer around the area, either to the west (due I suspect to a persistent blob of cooler water that seems to hang out to the west of the Tampa Bay area during the season--cooler again being relative) or to the east where the consequential wind directions and effects are lessened. N'any case, I don't have a ready explanation but I do know that, given the alternatives I feel we're fairly secure here abouts and more so than we would be on the east coast by a good deal.
> 
> IMHO....


Even if you are in an area that does not get frequent direct strikes one does have to be cautions in general. Do you remember the gent on his roller blades out on the Courtney Campbell that did not see shelter and got hit by a sideways bolt lightning due to a storm many miles away? Had to have been in the late 1980's maybe early 1990's. Some friends of mine on the fire rescue crew that responded found he had been tossed clear across over all the lanes of traffic to the other side. Guy was a mess so they quickly bagged him up however it wasn't until they retrieved his skates that they realized his feet were still inside. Wouldn't have happened if he had just listened to those around him and waited out the storm under the concrete storm shelters right there off the path he was skating on.

My sister after those hurricane scares we had back around 2003 or so did the halfback thing moving to the Carolina's and found out what its like to live in a more active area. She moved back here a couple of years ago.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/climo/

Interesting site to get metrics. If you look at the tab with all the Hart's showing tropical cyclones over the last 100 years, there are various charts including those which pass within 50 miles etc.

It isn't necessary to have a direct hit to have affect the coastline as we all know. Storms can affect 300-500 miles away. Surly you aren't sailing with one of these lurking in the Gulf even if they are headed toward NO or Texas. Preparation of a boat on the dock starts days out of course. So as unpredictable as the TS is, any storm entering the Gulf Area has the potential of causing damage.

Data shows the tip of Florida of course as vulnerable with many dots up the east and west coast of Florida. In addition panhandle and other affected areas. As suspected the TOTAL of western Florida western are greater.

This for me, whether east or west coast of Florida is the primary reason why I have chosen not to live there or retire there. I have owned a house for 20 years in Sanibel a gulf coast island next to FT Meyers. It is on pilings 10 ft above sea level. It has been battered over 10 times in those 20 years. 4 major tropical hurricanes have hit with in 50 mikes and came ashore . This is not a guess but a cold fact. It has been built to Hurricane codes, but still has received its share of punishment. For us to have a boat permanently in this area I would have to just assume I was always playing on borrowed time. Personally not for me. Understand I am not being critical of. Florida for others as many factors go into deciding where to retire or live . BTW same reason we won't retire to St Johns or a Carribean Island.

I don't want to play the hurricane odds. No place is entirely safe I understand that, but having responded many times ( at least 15) to Hurricane devastated areas and seeing first hand peoples generational lives shattered as well as all their belongings has had a profound affect on me. The effect these storms have produce not only physical belonging losses by severe emotional traumas. Once or twice a year even as far north as we live in Maryland we have potential hurricane incursions causing a bAttoning down of everything. To me according to data as well as personal experience living on the gulf coast of Florida that would be continuous. Enough stress in life then to have to life with that is not for us.

In retirement Our plans have always been to sail the Chesapeake and points north from April//May to October till TS season dies down, then go to Florida and the Carribean. We've love the Chesapeake and LI Sound areas. Fall is one of the best times on the Chessie. But won't mind giving them up in the winter times. We've decided not to give up land houses for full time cruising as eventually we will need them in time of illness plus they are helpful in our overall financial plan. Also my wife whose a good sailor in her own right likes having the space the house provides her and needs the time on land.

We've decided to keep Sanibel as an investment property for a while yet. We can use it with 2 weeks notice to a Dr who rents it from me as his second house for the last 15 years. However when retirement comes we are looking at selling it and moving to the eastern side. Georgia down to St Augustine looks like our target area. From there is easy tothe Keys or with the right window jumping accross to the Bahamas and down.

This blueprint is ours alone Not a criticism of others. We have many many friends in Florida who always entice us to join them. It's a rambling explanation , but it is what it is.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Good post chef.

As for this...



> Surly you aren't sailing with one of these lurking in the Gulf even if they are headed toward NO or Texas.


In fact, yes we are/were sailing in the Gulf during these times - at least during the times these systems can spawn (those dots) - not when one is actually headed our way. Our sailing season was May-July due to the boys' schedule. According to the link you posted, here's what the probability of those dots you mentioned looks like during those latter months...



















We then got very picky about our windows thereafter starting in August...










But, one of the most popular offshore races that I did for several years was the Harvest Moon Regatta which took place in late October...










And you can see the probabilities for that above. The boys and I also crewed on a return delivery for one of these boats in 2014 - sailing into 12'-15' seas left over by a strong storm in the Gulf. We then got hit by a heavy norther as we were a few miles from Galveston, but had no TCs.

So, the bottom line, as I said in my video above, when you live and sail in "The Box" as we always have - you have to take that gamble to some extent if you're going to sail offshore. It's just part of the deal. But with today's incredible forecasting - if you're at all careful and prepared - you're chances are very good.


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## RTB (Mar 5, 2009)

chef2sail said:


> Brunswick is precisely the area we are also looking about in retirement for all the advantages you mentioned. Besides the huge tides what are the disadvantages?


If you will be land based, I can't help much. We live aboard here, and I work here at the marina. We don't own a car, and don't get very far away from our boat. I have a bicycle, and can get anywhere I need in a short time. You can Uber, take a taxi, or a rental. There is an airport here in Brunswick, but most go to Jacksonville if flying out.

Negatives are few really. There is a paper mill close by, so when the wind goes NW, which is not often and short lived, you do get that nasty smell. We are also basically in a marsh area, so as you might expect, the bugs can get very annoying. The weather can be a bit warm for some here in the summer, and was way too cold for me this past January, but not the previous year. Being from Texas myself, I don't like cold, but in reality the weather here is quite similar.

We do have 7-8' tides. Not a problem at the marina with floating docks. Travel via ICW requires a great deal of planning. Plenty of skinny water both north and south of here. You just need to know where, and play the tides accordingly. The inlet here is no problem, so pretty safe in most conditions.

If you are not a resident, you can keep your boat here (legally) for 184 days, then could be charged property tax on the boat, as I understand. They don't seem to check this, and the marina doesn't offer any info to the state. Also, there is a Georgia state income tax. Do some homework and see if that could be a problem for you.

Marina wise - this is a pretty unique place. I have never been to any marina like it. Truly an international crowd, with some seriously experienced sailors. Quite the melting pot. Not at all like what you will typically find on the Gulf Coast (Florida to Texas). Many are like myself, with multiple Gulf Stream crossings to the Bahamas, and choose to come back here for hurricane season. Others arrived here from Denmark, England, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and the Caribbean. Many have left here just this year, transiting the Panama Canal, while others choose Mexico and the Rio Dulce. We had 5 Amel Super Maramu's here this year, and all but one have gone to seek their newest adventures. Also, one Nordhaven heading back to Australia.

Anyway...back to the marina.....we have FREE BEER everyday, plus "Happy Hour" every Mon, Wed, and Friday. Free OnSpot wifi, free laundry, free loaner bikes, a cruisers' net 3 days a week, and our own Facebook Page. Certainly the largest live aboard community that I know of from my travels. And "WE" are welcomed by our marina, which is pretty uncommon from what I see these days. Brunswick landing marina dot com. Send me a PM if you need more info.

Ralph


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

SmackDaddy - Hurricane season can go out with a blast mid to late August to mid to late October this is true. On the water front you take your lumps which is why I live 100 ft above the water in a built up area where the properties out on the edge of the area take the edge off the wind. Single story home with low roof pitch to further reduce wind profile and use earth augers to anchor boats and such down on their trailers. A 650 lb ft impact wrench simplifies setting the augers. Usually in a Cat1 or Cat2 storm even with a direct hit we will only see Tropical winds in my neighborhood. A Cat3 may still only bring Tropical Storm conditions. A lot depends on location and direction of wind here so you do have to vet those things out. Tampa forms a big bowl between my house and Iron Mountain/Lego Land which would be just about turn into the Gulf of Tampa if we had storm surge at the base of the hill I live on. Its all about risk assessment.

Personally though I find the NorEasters where I grew up much worse than Hurricane Season in the Tampa/St Pete Area during the past 30 years. I grew up sailing out of Glouster, MA and lived in that area over 30 years. I was plowing snow during the blizzard of 78 and dealt with the issues of the Great Blackout in the 1960's so I am very familiar with winters. Degenerative bone disease that set in after a bad fall made New England winters impossible for me to deal with so that factors in too. Flipped the knees backwards when I fell 25 feet and impacted on a concrete machine pad that was over 3 feet thick.

Might find it interesting though to stay at the Frying Pan Shoals Light Station during a blow though I am not sure if I am up to the climb to the platform. Does that qualify as a stilt home? Its a Bed and Breakfast now.


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## Mattbastard (Jun 18, 2017)

Just a quick update. I spoke with the hiring manager (I passed the first interview with the HR manager) and things are still looking good. Hopefully this all pans out for us because even with all the hurricane talk I'm excited to relocate to that area. 

Thanks everyone.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

west coast fla is better than many places on earth. appalach, port st joe... all of the west coast. good places. 
i have never had drive to go to east coast fla..ever since i can remember it has been filled with noo yoahkahs. sorry . i lived in ny too long to be happy vacationing with em., west coast has just enough ny ers to have a decent pizza occasionally, and some awesome scenery. yeah there are thunderstorms. they build character and let ye have heavy weather experience. btw--there is a nice icw to hide in for those storms with extra fear factor. even has a lulus to hang in so you can say you had a cheeseburger in paradice. hahahahaha. and a pirates cove, and some lagoons and coves for anchoring. nice place. destin is overrated. 
popensacola is busy . many anchoring entertainment opportunities. watching them anchor was a kick on jooly 4th. 
hurricanes?? hahahahahahaha y'all wimps donot get 19 forming overhead every summer, like we do here, so just go with it.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

That's FIASCO! in my avatar...our beachcat.

Hunter S. Thompson was cool - but now that our Hunter is gone, just doesn't make as much sense.

As for the elephant...looooong story.


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