# christmas toy...sextant--need help



## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

Well, kinda good news bad news... she got me what i wanted for christmas... a sextant (once she figured i wasnt angeling for some weird 'sex tent' and here is what she came up with

Working ROSS LONDON Brass 8in Micrometer Sextant

seems nice. i was wondering if you guys had any exp wth this rosslondon outfit, and how to attach the micrometer, as the blinkin thing didnt come with a single direction. also, a bit of the powder coat has exposed brass, any worries? one yellow lens _slightly scratched_, and lastly i noticed the weeist bit of corosion where there steel degree marks meet the brass band in one spot, how should i clean it?

the real pickle, as you can imagine, is for the cas$, if there is something better how the [email protected]?} do i ask her to send it back for something else?? looks like it was about 430....plus the fact she overnighted it.
no, i dont have to tuck it in my sock...

happy holidays!!


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

It is wise that you recognized this device as a "toy" when compared with the accuracy and function of today's devices to identify your position at sea, but as a historical collector's item it has merit. I'm probably far from the most skilled, but when I was taking noon sights with a sextant back in the seventies; I was doing my best to get within ten miles of my true position. I don't have answers to your specific questions, but I did google Ross London Sextant and found a wealth of information, but I'm sure you've already mined that source. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

She may have got it from ebay.
I believe I emailed the seller about a year ago and think these are reproductions. 

I saw about 4 of them (used) at bacons within the last few months.


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

It's a reproduction and it's a toy. It's not a serious sextant, however beautiful it might appear.

Unfortunate, too, because it cost nearly what you'd pay for a used, excellent condition REAL sextant. Like a C Plath or Cassens & Plath, or a Tamaya, or a Freiburger. These turn up on eBay and you'd pay between $500 and $800 for one in excellent condition.

I still have two Plaths; recently sold my beloved Tamaya to a round-the-world sailor. As a ex celestial navigation instructor, I don't consider sextants to be "toys", no matter what other electronic marvels may exist today 

Good luck. I'd return it if I could, and get a real sextant.

Bill


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## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

A few years ago I asked a sextant salesman how GPS was affecting his sales. Surprisingly he said that his sales went UP with the advent of GPS. He felt that it was because when you knew exactly where you are already it is a lot easier to learn how to use the sextant. You instantly know if you made a mistake, and since you know where you are, you already know if you are in trouble! Makes learning a lot easier!


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

ps. when i mentioned bacons in annapolis, i meant that they had real ones and not the reproductions.


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

I have heard that if you can find a WWII sextant, you can sometimes get a good deal on a decent sextant.

One popular model, made by several manufacturers is the US Navy Mark IV.

Be careful buying a used one, people sell them with all kinds of missing gadgetry that goes with the units.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Mick, the gentle way to break it to her might be to phrase it "Honey, these are made for presentation awards, you know, where they screw them to a wall plaque or something? And not for real use at sea." 

Which is really the truth--if you're going to cut up a sextant and make it into a table lamp or bolt it to an office plaque, much better to use one of these than a real sextant!

The shame of it is, a top of the line C.Plath or Cassens & Plath won't bring more than $500-600 used, even in the best of condition. Versus nearly 3x that much new. Celestaire.com would be a good place to see what's available in brand new sextants at the same price, sometimes even a bit lower.


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## XTR (Feb 28, 2007)

I picked up an Astra IIIB a few yrs ago. If you watch ebay you can get them for less than $300. (it did take me 3 or 4 tries but I finally got mine for about $250 I think)

It's about the best bang for the buck on a real sextant and not a decoration. I've enjoyed using mine.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I agree with the previous posters for the most part the exception being I don't consider a sextant a toy either. Celestaire http://www.celestaire.com/Astra-IIIB/View-all-products.html
has the Astra IIIB for $599 and it is an excellent choice.
What nobody has mentioned is a good book on its use. One of the best and easiest to understand on the subject is Mary Blewitt's Celestial Navigation for Yachtsman available in paperback for $12 at Celestial Navigation for Yachtsmen: Amazon.ca: Mary Blewitt: Books
or if you want hardcover used from http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?c...wquery=mary+blewitt&qsort=&browse=2&binding=H
for about $6.
Hope you had a good Christmas and Happy New Year


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## bloodhunter (May 5, 2009)

Just checked e-bay and there are a lot of real sextants for sale including plath, frieberger,tamaya a navy sextant plus a bunch of what is advertised as Soviet navy sextant (may bid on it just as a curiosity) They also have lots of reproductions which you want to stay away from. 
As has been pointed out ad infinitum, these are not toys, they are working instruments . I actually have three of them, my father's old navy sextant which I used to navigate from New York to Bermuda and back four times (in the days before GPS), A Tamaya and a Napoleonic era British navy sextant that I got in a nautical antiques place in London -- Its suprisingly accurate given its age and and all.
In any case if you keep an eye on e-bay and have patience your could probably get a good sextant for about the price paid for the reproduction or even less.


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

*well i know that!*

I only said 'toy' cause its the holiday.... i know its an its not a toy. is a bb gun a toy? hhhmmmm how bout a boat? lol j/k

so something like this?

Marine Sextant FREIBERGER - No. 780534 - RARE CHANCE - eBay (item 270502715932 end time Jan-15-10 19:48:33 PST)

or this?

Sextant Poulin Blanchet - ORIGINAL FRENCH PERIOD -RARE - eBay (item 280435711731 end time Jan-07-10 03:51:06 PST)

i think she got duped. i think she paid four hundge for the following:

8in Working 2Telescope Brass Micrometer Sextant w Box - eBay (item 380188272971 end time Jan-13-10 10:04:57 PST)

i like the french one, what do you think?


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## bloodhunter (May 5, 2009)

QuickMick,
Didn't know sextants got left on ships that were being sent to the breakefrs yard -- learn something new every day. In any case know nothing about the french sextant, never even heard of the maker. If I remember correctly some of the Freiberger instruments use Zeiss optics. In any case German optics are usually of very high quality.
In any case if you can get either of these sextants for $400 or so they are probably a very good buy so long as they haven't been dropped or otherwise damaged.


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

well, it appears i solved the price mystery. I called the guy at 'ross london' to inquire as to the price diff. between what my benevolent benefactor paid and the listed ebay price. evidendtly, when they run a casting they are forced to buy the whole lot, then grade the pieces based on the quality of each individual casting and price completed work accordingly. ill keep you updated on how she works--hopefully mine should be bristol given my pricepoint. Would also like to note that there is a scratch on the yellow recticle which he immediately offered to replace for free. now....if i could just find that darn north star...... thanks, as always, for the feedback.
Quinn


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Of the 2 you posted, the Freiberger looks the best. I've also never heard of the French maker. However the Freuberger doesn't come with a telescope and they mention damage. As it needs a telescope you'd have to purchase that separately. Celestaire sells a 7 x 35 for $195. I think you'd be better off to buy a new Astra IIIB. It has a warranty and a company to back it up and you know it will work.

On a slightly different note the late Mike Richey, who was involved throughout his life with navigation wrote a short article about his sextants. It's interesting to read. On Reflection October 1990


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## cthomas (Jan 18, 2007)

check out Land and Sea Collection Nautical Antiques,. Mr. Joel there sold me a great CHO-T. I used it last summer on a sail from New Orleans to Belize. Worked great.


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

QuickMick said:


> well, it appears i solved the price mystery. I called the guy at 'ross london' to inquire as to the price diff. between what my benevolent benefactor paid and the listed ebay price. evidendtly, when they run a casting they are forced to buy the whole lot, then grade the pieces based on the quality of each individual casting and price completed work accordingly. ill keep you updated on how she works--hopefully mine should be bristol given my pricepoint. Would also like to note that there is a scratch on the yellow recticle which he immediately offered to replace for free. now....if i could just find that darn north star...... thanks, as always, for the feedback.
> Quinn


Quinn,

You're asking, but you're not listening. The Ross London sextant is a toy. It is made for display purposes, NOT for serious navigation. Doesn't matter if you pay $1,000 for a perfect copy, it's still a display piece.

Freiburgers are very good sextants...I just don't happen to like them. The Plaths and Tamayas are much preferable, IMHO. Also, the Aires which has been mentioned several times is an excellent sextant for the price. You'll pay as much for a new one, though, as you'll pay for a very good used Plath or Tamaya.

I, too, have never heard of the French sextant you linked to. The error card shows some 1-minute errors, though. Typically, a Plath will have a card stating that "This instrument is free of errors for practical use".

Keep looking. They do turn up on eBay and elsewhere.

Bill


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## mintcakekeith (Nov 5, 2009)

the modern ross london sextants are sold as repro ,the originals have a good reputation. 
I have an ex admiralty sextant which is very plain but very accurate with no index error at all ,came with certificate ,cost me about £300 and worth every penny K.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I'd skip the partial Freiberger and not worry about mismatching a scope onto it. By the time you are done, you can buy an ARES or ASTRA brand new and COMPLETE and not worry about whether the frame has been bent--as happens with used sextants--or whether there is some other problem. 

And as Bill somewhat bluntly puts it, "The Ross London sextant is a toy. It is made for display purposes, ". Ask around on the navigation forums, Ross is for interior decorators, not sailors.

If you have to ask why...Buy a sextant book from Celestaire that explains how to maintain and adjust sextants, how they can go wrong and how they have to be calibrated and adjusted from time to time, and what some of the features are. This is not a matter of ten dollar quartz wrist watches all keeping reasonably good time, there are differences between a real precision instrument and a display replica.

As a practical matter, once you get a "real" sextant, the extra precision theoretically possible from the more expensive models is just a numbers game. To a sailor on a small craft at sea, in the real world, with movements and atmospheric issues, you'll be getting a position within about two MILES. That's considered outstanding, at sea on a small craft.

Are there differences between a $500 sextant from China and an $1800 Cassens & Plath Ultra? Yes indeed, and some of them will make you get that two mile position much faster and more confidently. But in the end, for practical navigation, even the ARES or ASTRA will do just fine. 

And the guys at Celestaire are also usually quite willing to spend some time on the phone explaining things. As are a number of other vendors--but I don't know any that deal so exclusively with sextant navigation.


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

how bout the 25 davis?


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

C. Plath Hamburg Maritime Nautical Sextant w/box++ NR - eBay (item 360219921933 end time Dec-28-09 16:38:10 PST)

or this?


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

QuickMick said:


> C. Plath Hamburg Maritime Nautical Sextant w/box++ NR - eBay (item 360219921933 end time Dec-28-09 16:38:10 PST)
> 
> or this?


Yes, this is a top-quality sextant. From the pictures, it looks to be in good condition, and comes with both a 6x scope and a prism monocular. It has a serial # just 1,000 lower than mine. I bought mine in Hong Kong in 1970, and it's in the same plastic box as the one shown in the eBay listing. Not pretty, but very functional and very strong. Plath did this for awhile in the late '60s and early 70's.

Assuming it really IS in good shape, it could be a decent buy. There's no detailed description of it's condition, however. And, note that the sextant is in Lima, Peru. Shipping cost is $110, and it would be hard to return if there were any damage. You'd certainly want insurance on the shipment. The vendor seems OK but, with all eBay sales, there's no guarantee.

Bill


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## Rover88 (Jan 9, 2010)

*Same Boat and Sextant*

Bless her heart, last Christmas my lovely wife did the same thing and shelled out $350 for what she thought was a working sextant from much the same source.

I made a nice oak stand for it and now it is "art" adorning a shelf in the living room. With much patience I found an absolute mint condition 1971 Tamaya M2 (predecessor to the 733 Spica) on ebay for $400 and bought it. What a tremenous difference between the "art" and "real" sextant!!!!

Granted, you take a risk buying off ebay or similar, but if you know the product (research, research, research) and with a bit of luck, you can get a fine sextant for a mere fraction of the new price.

Now I noticed that the ex US Navy instruments had tremendous built in errors and knowing the military all too well, I have little confidence they were handled with care. Same goes for the Russian ones you see on ebay.

If all else fails, look for a Davis Mark 25 on ebay. Although plastic, they are reasonably accurate and sell for about $100 - $150 used. Nice thing is, you can always re-sell the Davis and get you money back when you move up to a Astra-B, Plath or Tamaya.

Now as an aside, I get a lot of raised eyebrows at the marina over my desire to learn CN. "Why - when you have 3 GPSs aboard your boat?" is the prevailing question. I just shrug my shoulders at such remarks. Let them all rely on a government run GPS system and their other modern electroic gadgets. Not me.


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## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

mitiempo said:


> On a slightly different note the late Mike Richey, who was involved throughout his life with navigation wrote a short article about his sextants. It's interesting to read. On Reflection October 1990


I was trying to remember this guy's name a while back. I had read an article about him in which they interviewd him shortly after his 27th Atlantic crossing, about the 10th time on Jester. He celebrated his 90th birthday on that trip I believe. Mike Richey developed the sight reduction tables used by the British Navy in WWII. The interviewer asked him what he used for navigation on this trip. He reached into a drawer and pulled out a handheld Garmin GPS. The interviwer was surprised and said "I had heard that you believed in a minimalist approach to sailing, but you are using a modern GPS? Where is your sextant?" Mike Richey replied "I reach out of my bunk, push a button, and know exactly where I am. How much more simple does it get than that? I didn't bother to bring my sextant on this trip, it's not as if I need the practice you know." Priceless!


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Gary
I've never come across that interview. Mike died December 22 at age 92. Here's a link to a small article about his sextants. 
On Reflection October 1990


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