# Looking for recommendations for small racer



## bshock (Dec 11, 2012)

Hi folks,

I may be selling my Beneteau 361 and downsizing to a small racer, and I'm looking for recommendations on the racer (with occasional day sailing/overnighting). I'll be racing PHRF on a small inland reservoir. My budget will in the $30k range, and these are my priorities/wish list:

Easily towable with a Jeep Grand Cherokee (about 6k pounds towing capacity IIRC).
Retractable keel for easier launching/retrieving at the ramp. Sits low on trailer.
Fast-ish (I am currently racing a 1974 Catalina 22)
Can solo sail
Cabin so I can sleep onboard when necessary
Sprit for spinnaker
New-ish: 10 years old or less, preferably fewer than 5 years (looking for more of a sailing boat than a project boat, which is what my Catalina 22 is)

I have a short list of potential boats, but my knowledge of such boats is very limited, so that why I'm hoping some experienced folks here may be able to point me to some options, because the hard part, I suspect, will be actually FINDING the boat for sale. The boats on this list are (I think) all under 5,000 pounds including the trailer, they have a retractable keel so they don't require a super deep ramp. Here they are:

Beneteau First 24 (too expensive I know, but this one checks ALL the boxes and then some.)
Rocket 22
Ultimate 20
Melges 24
Fareast 23r
J/70

Thanks for any recommendations! ⛵


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

If you are planning on racing the first thing you should do is see what one-design classes are active in your area. There is nothing worse that racing a small race boat against a bunch of phrf racer/cruisers.

I had a Hotfoot 20, which was the predecessor to the Ultimate 20. (They bought and modified the hotfoot molds). It was great fun, but a bit of an orphan in phrf racing. I found myself racing against c&c 35s, Crown 34s etc.

Small sport boats are way more fun to race One Design.

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## bshock (Dec 11, 2012)

Thanks SchockT, the only one-design we have in our area is the Catalina 22 "fleet." Our Wednesday beer can races are a mix of boats 28 feet to 20 feet in length, with phrfs as high as the 240s IIRC. So I won't be racing one-design, but will be going against Kirby's, J/24s, Santanas, Catalina 27s, Precision 23. It's a pretty good mix of different boats.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

bshock said:


> Thanks SchockT, the only one-design we have in our area is the Catalina 22 "fleet." Our Wednesday beer can races are a mix of boats 28 feet to 20 feet in length, with phrfs as high as the 240s IIRC. So I won't be racing one-design, but will be going against Kirby's, J/24s, Santanas, Catalina 27s, Precision 23. It's a pretty good mix of different boats.


For that fleet the U20 or the Rocket22 would be a good fit. The J70 and Melges 24 would be great boats, but good luck finding one of those for 30k, and you would owe everyone buckets of time.

Another boat to keep an eye out for would be a B25 designed by Lief Beiley. I raced on one for a few years and it was a very fun boat and very quick in most conditions. We won more than our share of hardware in a mixed phrf fleet with that boat!






Perry Design Review: B-25 - boats.com


High-powered trailerable




www.boats.com















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## danvon (Dec 10, 2012)

There’s an Ultimate 20 in our beer can fleet. Beats a lot of larger boats on straight time. Looks like a fun little boat


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I would add the Tripp 26 to your list. Even though these are more than 10 years old, they remain fast and competitive. You might also consider a Santana 23D another oldie but goody. Or perhaps a
Farr 230 (B-One).

Jeff


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

The budget plus "almost new" criteria is going to eliminate almost all possibilities. Maybe go older and look for well maintained examples. One boat that at least meets the trailerable racer requirement is the S2 7.9.


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## jeremiahblatz (Sep 23, 2013)

I would think _really_ hard about home much "cabin so I can sleep onboard when necessary" is a requirement. If you get rid of that one, the field opens up wide. 

I second the notion that you should see if there's a one-design fleet, and if so just get one of those. I'll also suggest the viper 640 as an addition to your list. It's a very physical boat, and there's no chance of sleeping one once, but they're rockets and a breeze to launch.


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## bshock (Dec 11, 2012)

Thanks All, SchockT, that B25 does look like it checks more if not all the boxes. I'll add that to my list. 

Danvon, I agree, the Ultimate 20 would be a pretty fast boat and it sure looks like it'd be fun. 

JeffH, thanks for the recommendation on the Tripp 26. You're right, that looks like a very good candidate if I can find one. I've got that Santana you recommended on my list too, and I'll include the Farr 230 as well. 

Jimscal, we have a number of S2 7.9s that are regular racers, and those are definitely fast boats. I think it's a bit too big and heavy for what I'm hoping for.

And when I say "new," I know it's a long shot finding anything I can afford that's less than 10 years old; I'm just sick of needing to upgrade/repair things as soon as I buy a boat. I wouldn't mind a 40 year old boat as long as it is in a condition I find acceptable.

Thanks again everyone! My list of boat's has grown with your recommendations. It may simply be a matter of which boat I find available at the right time and place.


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## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

check out a Martin 24 or a Merit 25. Both race in very enthusiastic OD fleets in our area, and are fast with minimal overnighting interiors.
An Ericson 23-2 would add some luxury to the speed, also.

*ADDING LINK: (located in VA). 1979 Ericson 23 MKII for sale


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## PGandW (4 mo ago)

Completely different direction, but meets most of your criteria: Squadron Yachts (British) BayRaider Expedition (20ft). It's the boat I drool over owning. Very easy to trailer, very easy to single hand, fast and responsive. Centerboard and water ballast keep it fast and usable in a very wide range of conditions. Raced in "raids" in Britain. I have never seen a used version here (only the open BayRaider), but new looks like less than $40K all up.

I "settled" for a Mariner 19, which is probably too small to meet your requirements, but is a good boat for day sailing Albemarle Sound. Active class association, with active class racing New England to New Jersey, PHRF racing elsewhere (288 without spinnaker, 267 with, yet keeps up with the small end of the fleet). Still manufactured, over 4000 made. *Used examples generally range from $3K to $10K.* 1375lb class racing displacement so doesn't require rail sitting, barely acceptable for camp cruising 1-2, quite reasonable to single hand. Easily trailered, and can fit on my boat lift.

Fred W
1989 Stuart Mariner #4133
Sweet P
Yeopim Creek (near Hertford, NC)


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## bshock (Dec 11, 2012)

Thanks for the recommendations, Olson. I'll definitely check out those boats. PGandW, I just checked out that BayRaider 20; and you're right. That looks like a nice boat! Biggest hurdle may be finding one in the States though.


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## PGandW (4 mo ago)

> PGandW, I just checked out that BayRaider 20; and you're right. That looks like a nice boat! Biggest hurdle may be finding one in the States though.


Squadron Yachts knows how to ship to the US for a reasonable fee. But it would be a new boat. My Feb 2022 price list shows a loaded BayRaider 20 Expedition for about $30K at present exchange rates. I'm assuming $40K delivered. I've think Squadron has built around 60-70 BayRaider 20s, a few to the US and Canada, and a few to Australia.

Fred W
1989 Stuart Mariner #4133
Sweet P
Yeopim Creek (near Hertford, NC)


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## bshock (Dec 11, 2012)

Thanks PG, I'll look more into the BayRaider. $40k is at the high end of my budget, but I could probably make it work.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

PGandW said:


> Squadron Yachts knows how to ship to the US for a reasonable fee. But it would be a new boat. My Feb 2022 price list shows a loaded BayRaider 20 Expedition for about $30K at present exchange rates. I'm assuming $40K delivered. I've think Squadron has built around 60-70 BayRaider 20s, a few to the US and Canada, and a few to Australia.


One of the problems with expedition race ('raid') style boats is that they fair very poorly under PHRF when raced against more pure bred racers such as J-24's, Kirby 25's, B-25. J-22's, J-70's and so on. It is the same reason that boats like the Ericson 23 and the S2 7.9 also may not be the best choices as PHRF race boats. 

Jeff


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## marcjsmith (Jan 26, 2021)

raced on a b25 fun fast boat, it would be more camping type accommodations down below (very spartan, no tanks no ice box no stove). very fast boat. but very tender if sailed solo, needs some rail meat. the lifting keel is nice for shallow areas and trailer launching. get a right angle drill and buildup a crank system for raising and lowering. cna also be crane launched easily.

one of the boats I was looking at before I got my moody for a project was a first 235, which checked a lot of my boxes as having a proper finished cabin accoutrements down below for wife.com no lifting keel though there is a wing keel option...

also the s2 7.9 which also has a lifting keel

all above are well under 30k. b25 being the most expensive mid teens. but the leftover money would allow for new sails., new out board, etc. remember you are buying boat, no such thing as turn key  but I get the idea that you want less project and more sailing.






Sailboat Benetau First 235 with trailer in Millsboro, DE


Search millions of new and used boats for sale and research your next boats purchase.



www.smartmarineguide.com




1991 b boats b25 in rochester, ny boats 25
1986 s2 7.9 sailboat for sale in massachusetts 7.9


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Small Corsair F-boats fit in that catagory. F-24, Sprint, Dash, etc. Will be >10 years to fit in the $$ catagory, but that does not mean project boat, as most are well looked after.


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## bshock (Dec 11, 2012)

Thanks Jeff, regarding your comments on the raid style boats and PHRF. 

Marc, I appreciate your insight on the B25. "Camping "accommodations are adequate for me with whichever boat I end up with. Nicer accommodations would be excellent, but not a super priority. 

And thanks PDQ, I'll check those out. As you may have surmised, my new-ish boat "requirement" was indeed only to hopefully not have a project boat. I have no problems with a well maintained older boat.


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## rbsailing (Jun 23, 2011)

SchockT said:


> If you are planning on racing the first thing you should do is see what one-design classes are active in your area. There is nothing worse that racing a small race boat against a bunch of phrf racer/cruisers.
> 
> I had a Hotfoot 20, which was the predecessor to the Ultimate 20. (They bought and modified the hotfoot molds). It was great fun, but a bit of an orphan in phrf racing. I found myself racing against c&c 35s, Crown 34s etc.
> 
> ...


J 22 fits your requirements and can be found for under 10K. Sonars are also great racers but have more cockpit and less cabin. We sailed a Sonar in Stuart with a Asym on a sprit and left everyone in the dust.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

rbsailing said:


> J 22 fits your requirements and can be found for under 10K. Sonars are also great racers but have more cockpit and less cabin. We sailed a Sonar in Stuart with a Asym on a sprit and left everyone in the dust.


Both are excellent suggestions since they are both great boats except neither meet the PO's criteria of :

Retractable keel for easier launching/retrieving at the ramp. Sits low on trailer.
Jeff


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## rbsailing (Jun 23, 2011)

SchockT said:


> If you are planning on racing the first thing you should do is see what one-design classes are active in your area. There is nothing worse that racing a small race boat against a bunch of phrf racer/cruisers.
> 
> I had a Hotfoot 20, which was the predecessor to the Ultimate 20. (They bought and modified the hotfoot molds). It was great fun, but a bit of an orphan in phrf racing. I found myself racing against c&c 35s, Crown 34s etc.
> 
> ...


J 22 fits your requirements and can be found for under 10K. Sonars are also great racers but have more cockpit and less cabin. We sailed a Sonar in Stuart with a Asym on a sprit and left everyone in the dust.


Jeff_H said:


> Both are excellent suggestions since they are both great boats except neither meet the PO's criteria of :
> 
> Retractable keel for easier launching/retrieving at the ramp. Sits low on trailer.
> Jeff


Yes the retractable keel is great if you have to haul the boat a long distance or have shallow ramps. We have J22's at our sailing club and I haul them out with my Grand cherokee at the local ramp. We raced a boat in stuart that was dry sailed out of a storage yard that had racks for the sail boats outside so the rigs could be left up. They launched them with a big fork lift. It was great.


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