# Pros & Cons of cruising on a mid size to small boat



## ditch (Mar 21, 2009)

What do you all feel the pros and cons of cruising on a mid size to small boat are. Say something like 27-36 footers.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

ditch said:


> What do you all feel the pros and cons of cruising on a mid size to small boat are. Say something like 27-36 footers.


To some extent I think that depends on age. In the sub 30' bracket there are some definite possibilities for sure but once you get up round 35 and up there are plenty of more than adequate choices.

Once you get to my age anything under 35' starts to feel a bit cramped and you start looking more to 40' and up.

LOA is not necessarily the be all and all end all. Some 35-40'ers have plenty of room.


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## ditch (Mar 21, 2009)

*Boat or Crew lol*

_*"To some extent I think that depends on age."*_ Are you referring to the boat's age or the crew's age, maybe both-HA-HA!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

ditch said:


> _*"To some extent I think that depends on age."*_ Are you referring to the boat's age or the crew's age, maybe both-HA-HA!


Cheeky bugger !!


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## MSter (Apr 1, 2008)

Although I am still waiting for our cruising years, I can only speak from limited experience and our own desires. Our plan is to stick to the smallest boat WE find comfortable. We plan to be minimalists, but that term is relative as each cruiser has his/her idea of minimal. In general, we would like pressurized water, seperate shower stall, roomy cockpit, and an aft cabin if we can find it in a boat below '40. Our current boat, we find is great for extended weekends and even a couple of weeks which is all we can manage to get away from the jobs currently.

Having what you want is not always a good thing...Wanting what you have will save you a lot of stress and money in the long run......


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## SOUNDBOUNDER (Dec 16, 2008)

Smaller boats are cheaper.
There are harbors and anchorages that will be more accessible in a small boat.
You won't need a full crew every time you want to go for a sail.

I am generalizing here, but a lot of times it is true.


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

Smaller boats have lighter gear: sails, sheets, anchors.
Bigger boats have more comfort, easier motion, more capacity.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

It all depends on your priorities. If your major priority is to get out there and cruise, then going with a smaller boat, that has simpler systems and fewer amenities is the way to go. If you need to have all the comforts of a shore-based life and want to have the big queen size berth, the 42" LCD tv, with DVD, hot and cold pressure water, 110 VAC available at all times, then you won't be happy.

The Pardeys have spent decades on boats smaller than 30', and put hundreds of thousands of miles under the keel of their two boats.

It also depends on how many people you are talking about. For one or two very close people, a <30' boat is possible. Once you get more than two people, you'll probably need more space at a minimum because of the increased stowage requirements.

Smaller boats have lower costs overall. They have the ability to anchor in more places, and require less draft generally. They're often less likely to be attacked by pirates. They're easier to handle in many ways. They're usually slower. They're not as comfortable. I wrote a bit about this in a *previous thread I started*:



sailingdog said:


> I've noticed that some people on this site seem to discount the idea that a smaller boat can be the ideal boat for a person. I guess it has a lot to do with what you got the boat for.
> 
> If you want a floating condo, with all the pleasures and conveniences of modern life, including the microwave oven, the big screen TV, and the washer and dryer, you can't do that on a smaller boat.
> 
> ...


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## Mimsy (Mar 22, 2009)

I would echo again what *Sailingdog* said- how many people? Are you going out with your partner/spouse with whom you are used to sharing space with, or are you going out with a family? Kids? Taking along your best friend whom you are very fond of but you both need adult space?

We have found that 38' is the minimum we could deal with, but that's for two full time adults and one full time kid, with no room for additional guests. The 40+ range is really more workable for us.

In a few years, once the youngest is out on her own we will be looking at smaller boats but for now, we need the space to keep everyone sane.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

*Depends on your definition of cruising*

Is cruising for you knocking around the Chesapeake? Sailing the Intra Coastal? Island hopping the Carribean? Sailing the Southern Ocean?

A "comfortable boat" would be very different for someone planning on spending a lot of time on the hook in remote places versus someone who wants to spend a lot of time in marinas hooked to shore power.

If you're cruising with a spouse the boat must meet both your definitions of comfort. My wife and I have very different thresholds of what is "acceptable".

Our Catalina 30 is a very comfortable boat for weekend cruising and the occasional week or ten day trip. It's not a boat I'd take to the Carribean for a year long cruise. Preserving marital bliss would require something at least 38-40 feet. 

I guess what I'm saying in a round about way is you need to define your cruising needs before you can start to think about what boats will fit those needs.

Jim


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

Jim is right.

If you want all the comforts of a house you will need a large boat.

The more time you spend at the dock and the more you like to entertain the more you will need a larger boat. A pressure water system, stand-up shower and a roomy "Airy and light" cabin are not advantages in a boat intended to spend a lot of time at sea. In my experience, a smaller boat is better for voyaging, a larger boat makes a better live-aboard.

Be honest with yourself about what you will actually use the boat for. A Bristol Channel Cutter or Dana 24 (Or a Vega 27) make great sea boats but a cocktail party for half a dozen guests (Or even two couples) aboard one of these would be a flop, nor would you want to invite your in-laws for a weeks cruise.

New video log added 3-27


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## padean (Jul 5, 2001)

There are several advantages to a smaller boat. Price is obvious (not just boat price, but the price of nearly EVERYTHING else goes up quickly). Not so obvious is that two people can handle a 30' boat quite nicely. For my wife to be able to handle a 40' cruiser it would have to be prepped well. I'll admit after waling around some of the boat shows this winter, that most of the newer large boats are designed to be handled much easier even at 40'. 

I personally plan to cruise on the smallest seaworthy boat my wife will let me use, but that probably means at least 38-40', but I'd sure like to be able to live aboard a well-made older 28-30' boat.


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

Style of cruising. A smaller boat with much smaller costs could leave money to stay on shore in a hotel!!!! So the boat is used as transportation . No boat is as comfortable as a nice hotel. Obviously if there is plenty of money you can have both. But for many of us buying a 40' boat in good condition for sailing would break the bank leaving little money for cruising. So with a $100,000 or whatever amount. would you spend $30,000 on a boat and save $70,000 for the cruise??? Or spend $70,000 on a boat and spend $30,000 on the cruise??? A case can be made for either decision. Having money to enjoy the cruise is at least as important as the boat. Sailing to Cozumel and having money to eat well and enjoy scuba diving etc is different than sailing to Cozumel and living on the hook without money to dive or enjoy carlos and charley's. Also having a kitty in the bank to pay for unexpected expenses is a good thing. Being rich is a good thing unfortunately I am not rich so more of my money is in the bank and less is tied up in the boat.


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## ditch (Mar 21, 2009)

Thanks for your continuing thoughts: ). I am of a similar mind to have the smallest boat that we will be comfortable (financially long and short, physically, handling & maintenance) with. I plan on being in more remote areas on the hook, marinas have little interest to me. The smaller the boat the more concern to the interior design I start paying attention to; some of the bigger boat look smaller than some of the bigger boats. 
S Dog: Thanks for the re-posting of the well thought out old post. 
Mimsy & J McGee: Yes I agree the boat size should be a comfortable choice for all the crew.
Padean: Yes, single handling is a concern. 

Ditch


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

I guess its the old adage of whatever works for you.....

So this is our story and our perspective only....

We are a couple both about to turn 30, who currently cruise in local waters on a 27ft boat. We spend weekends aboard regularly and can do coastal hops no problem....To our non sailing friends life aboard is very cramped, a few days on board means provisions and stores in every nook and cranny and our style ends up being very much camping on board.

We are looking at making a break for a couple of years and doing some 'real' cruising' for this we reckon 33-38 is about our size range.

Any smaller and tankage and storage becomes a major issue for the 'off the beaten track' type sailing we hope to be doing. Any bigger and well we would run out of money, run into draught issues, and the boat becomes too big for either of us to handle without the other.....

Now we won't have air-con, genset, watermaker, or a microwave. We will hope more often than not that the party is on someone else's boat.....but I think this size for us will work well.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Chall brought up a good point...tankage. I'll add battery bank size, dink & motor, refrigeration and storage for anything and everything you want to bring. So you need to look at what you NEED vs what you WANT and the inconvenience of dealing without some of the things a bigger boat can provide.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

MoonSailer said:


> Style of cruising. A smaller boat with much smaller costs could leave money to stay on shore in a hotel!!!! So the boat is used as transportation . No boat is as comfortable as a nice hotel. Obviously if there is plenty of money you can have both. But for many of us buying a 40' boat in good condition for sailing would break the bank leaving little money for cruising. So with a $100,000 or whatever amount. would you spend $30,000 on a boat and save $70,000 for the cruise??? Or spend $70,000 on a boat and spend $30,000 on the cruise??? A case can be made for either decision. Having money to enjoy the cruise is at least as important as the boat. Sailing to Cozumel and having money to eat well and enjoy scuba diving etc is different than sailing to Cozumel and living on the hook without money to dive or enjoy carlos and charley's. Also having a kitty in the bank to pay for unexpected expenses is a good thing. Being rich is a good thing unfortunately I am not rich so more of my money is in the bank and less is tied up in the boat.


I'd spend about $10K on the boat, spend a few months getting her ready while my partner (Wife) works to add $20K to $30K to the kitty. We spend one or two nights in a hotel on arrival after a long passage, live on the hook mostly, treat ourselves with a restaurant meal occasionally and cruise indefinitely.



chall03 said:


> I guess its the old adage of whatever works for you.....


Absolutely!



> So this is our story and our perspective only....
> 
> We are a couple both about to turn 30, who currently cruise in local waters on a 27ft boat. We spend weekends aboard regularly and can do coastal hops no problem....To our non sailing friends life aboard is very cramped, a few days on board means provisions and stores in every nook and cranny and our style ends up being very much camping on board.
> 
> ...


We have been living aboard and cruising quite comfortably for a long time. Tomorrow marks nineteen years since I moved aboard Lealea, a Vega 27. Our longest passage to-date was 55 days. We have no problem storing six months or more of food aboard and we don't feel like we are camping. I'm with you on the air-con, genset and microwave but I disagree about the watermaker.

Latest video added March 27th


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

Given the same crew, similar quality of equipment, in the same storm, I would think that a bigger boat would be safer than a smaller boat. (bigger seaworthy boat, not Vega 27 vs. Catalina 35)


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Depends on the boats...


Barquito said:


> Given the same crew, similar quality of equipment, in the same storm, I would think that a bigger boat would be safer than a smaller boat. (bigger seaworthy boat, not Vega 27 vs. Catalina 35)


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## zaliasvejas (Jul 18, 2007)

Size does matter... 
It seems to me that most of the conversation on this topic revolves around how close you can mimic the "house" conditions on the boat. "look honey, we can have house plants, and a carpet, and a microwave, it will be just like our living room at the condo..." My thought is that in the end it is a boat first. For it to just float, it needs solid seacocks, maintained stuffing box and properly clamped hoses, not even mentioning the pumps and other safety gear. I think we should consider making the hull and all the parts livable and inviting, instead of adapting a house to be able to float. This thing on the water will never be a house, but it can shelter and comfort us, just like home would. 
So here is my two cents: A boat for me should be as simple as possible, less things to break, can be sailed by me alone, even with available help, all the gear can be repaired or superfluous, like fancy electronics and music boxes, all the sailing gear and dinghy handled by one person, even in rough conditions.... Electricity is nice, but would you survive without it? Would you be able to get back without any battery power? 
Comfort question is a personal one. First, this is not a house, you have to accept some adjustments. It might take some time, but we can get used to a lot of "discomfort" or rather lack of comfort. Hot chocolate is nice, and any alcohol stove will do just fine... Pizza would be good, but if it means having an oven and everything that comes with it, I would choose to order out. 
Shower is nice, but in warm climate a swim and a douse after will be fine. 
I live on a 30 foot boat and find that it is more than adequate for my level of comfort. I have a bunk to sleep in the front, a galley for making simple dishes and coffee, a laptop to watch movies in and type at this moment, a radio to listen to NPR and just enough good books to last me for a while. 
I am content and happy... things rarely break here, mostly simple maintenance, most complicated piece of plumbing is a hand pump. 
My boat can sail the high seas, I imagine, after a few safety fixes, like good locking hatches and storm sails. Fresh water tankage is an issue at this point, but I am sure once the time comes to break for it, I will be able to carry plenty. Besides, placing all your drinking water in one container is risky on a long trip... 
Sail on, thanks for a good topic


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

What a radical ideal. That the most important thing for a sailboat is that it be a boat that sails.....Next thing somebody says will be something like the fun of cruising is traveling from place to place. I want shag carpet and a hotub!!!! A lazyboy recliner is essential.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

vega1860 said:


> http://americanvega.org/vegasforsale.html
> 
> We have been living aboard and cruising quite comfortably for a long time. Tomorrow marks nineteen years since I moved aboard Lealea, a Vega 27. Our longest passage to-date was 55 days. We have no problem storing six months or more of food aboard and we don't feel like we are camping. I'm with you on the air-con, genset and microwave but I disagree about the watermaker.
> 
> Latest video added March 27th


Apologies for any inference in my last post that it can't be done in a 27ft boat.

My remarks were very much based on our situation and our boat......she is very different to a Vega 27. She is an Australian cruiser/racer design- a Supersonic 27.

It feels like camping onboard because the boat is setup for weekends aboard and club racing......we have no refrigeration, you need to take the V-berth apart to use the head. We have an old 8hp Yanmar with an itsy bitsy engine top tank. Ditto for the water tank.....

Could we modify her? 
Of course. But when we bought her she was a very fast, very competitive boat for her size. To add tanks, a windlass, appendages etc etc would change the nature of the kind of boat she is, and we have reached a point where we feel it is better to sell her and find a boat that is more appropriate to our needs.

Why did we buy the boat in the first place?
Originally we were club/twilight racing focused. We wanted something that we could race, but also use on weekends. 5 years later and I don't race anymore, I am a cruiser interested in getting out there on the blue yonder. ......Josie still enjoys racing but is good enough that she has found other prettier, faster, boats to do it on than ours.

Vega I would be particularly interested in hearing more about how you approach small boat cruising...I reckon you have just as much fun as those on 45 footers, and I reckon we could all learn alot from how you make it work on your Vega 27.

Oh and I added Watermaker in there for effect, your probably right. You must admit though they can take up a fair whack of room.


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## ditch (Mar 21, 2009)

*Me too!*

"Vega I would be particularly interested in hearing more about how you approach small boat cruising...I reckon you have just as much fun as those on 45 footers, and I reckon we could all learn alot from how you make it work on your Vega 27."

I agree I would LOVE to hear more about your time cruising and your set up.
Ditch


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

chall03 said:


> Apologies for any inference in my last post that it can't be done in a 27ft boat.


No need to apologize. I've seen forty footers that could not comfortably sleep two. Boats are designed for specific purposes. The Vega, designed and built in Sweden, was intended as a North Atlantic family pocket cruiser; a larger version of a folkboat, which makes it an ideal blue water boat for an adventurous couple or solo sailor.



> Vega I would be particularly interested in hearing more about how you approach small boat cruising...I reckon you have just as much fun as those on 45 footers,


More 



> and I reckon we could all learn alot from how you make it work on your Vega 27.


CD asked me to expound on that subject in the thread entitled A Discussion of the Philosophies of Cruising in the Boat Buying forum so I wrote a rather lengthy post there. Since I have some time on my hands lately, I've been writing quite a lot for the American Vega Association web site where our Cruising Pages are hosted and of course I have been posting our video logs on my YouTube channel.
 It is work-in-progress but there is enough there to keep you occupied for a few hours. Also on the AVA site, the Voyages page features accounts of two global circumnavigations in Vegas, one by a couple, the other solo.



> Oh and I added Watermaker in there for effect, your probably right. You must admit though they can take up a fair whack of room.


Our Power Survivor 40e watermaker doesn't take up much space or use too many amp-hours. It makes 1.5 gallons per hour (40 in 24 hours) and we run it an hour or two every other day or so.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

My first trans-ocean voyage was done on 36 ft and we started with four people on board, then we had three then I finished the voyage on my own. Why is this important? Because it shows that a reasonably sized boat can be all things to all people. On 36 ft four of us had enough space for our comfort/privacy/stores (hereinafter referred to as needs  ) for a 3 month voyage but the same boat was easily sailed by one.

A small boat can also be sailed by one and will have space for two and their needs. And if that is your plan that's cool, save the money and buy small. There are lots of small seaworthy boats around. That is not a problem.

But if you are going to have more than two on board you need space for not only the people but their needs. If you try and shoe-horn this into a 27ft boat, expect a bad-news voyage. Unless you have something interesting to smoke, a crowded small boat will be your worst nightmare.

We now have 44ft for two of us. I can still sail the boat alone. We have space to burn for stores, we carry 1000 litres of fresh water. We arrived in Marquseas where the water at the time was undrinkable. We never even bothered, we had more than enough to continue our voyage. We watched many other cruisers in a mild panic because of it. We have a genset, not because we must, because we can (still busy installling it).

We have comfort not only for ourselves but for two other couples if the need arises. Yes it is true that boat gear gets more expensive as size increases. But guess what? The stuff is also a whole lot stronger and can take a heck of a beating without damage. And docking costs are moot because we won't be spending time in expensive marinas.

We can also house a big dingy (3.2 metre RIB) which means that we can ferry stuff/people to and from wherever easier and with it we can have a nice morning fishing the local reef without hooking each other behind the ear. And we can easily scuba from it.

"Size is a personal choice". Never has a truer word been said. The above is not intended to be critical of people cruising small vessels. Lots do and have great times. But for me? I personally would never go on a long voyage in anything smaller than 36 ft.

If you choose a small boat because that's what you genuinely want, you're in a lucky space financially. The people I feel sorry for as those who cannnot afford a bigger vessel and talk themselves into cruising a small boat against their better judgement.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Thanks Vega, I will have a look at that thread, the sites and Youtube.
Andre, thanks for the perspective. A really good post....


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## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

*Return on investment?*

OK Here is my perspective from a 26' pocket cruiser sloop I have. (a glorified daysailer)
For a 26' boat it has more space than some 28' boats and is very affordable. All the positve points you have heard about small are true and apply to me. Also I live and sail in the PNW, it snowed here yesterday morning, April 1/09 and it was only 3-4 degress celsius all day, cold again today! We only get 3-5 months of decent sailing season here and my wife and I do mostly daysailing with a few excursions in the summer vacation. It is hard to justify a big expensive boat for this venue considering the season length and ones return on investment in the boat. Certainly a bigger boat with an enclosure or a pilot house would extend the season somewhat but from my perspective not enough. I would rather use the money to escape winters here and charter a boat in a warmer clime.
That said there is one major drawback to small for me. I am a large person and I find the small concept incurs a sense of claustrophobia, I always feel confined, no where to move, always have to sit or move to oneside for my wife to pass, and always crouched & cramped for space. We enjoy marinas not only for amenities but also so that I can escape from confinement and have the run of the docks. This small boat can take us as far south in the Puget Sound as we like and as far north as the Broughtons in the northern Georgia Strait, no problems in these protected waters but space is always an unending reminder that small has its' drawbacks. As I get older it becomes even more apparent and I may yet see the day when I upgrade to a 36.7 First even if it is for just coastal cruising and daysailing in the short seasons we have.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

I am an advocate of small boat cruising but I do not want anyone to misunderstand. My shoes may not fit your feet. I offer my experiences only to point out that not everyone needs a forty foot ketch to go cruising.

Sub thirty-foot boats are suitable and in some cases ideal for solo sailors and couples and are OK for occasional short-term guests. No more. A larger boat is absolutely more comfortable for long stays in a marina or when it is necessary to accommodate more than two people.

Then too, LOA or LOD is not the only consideration. Some designs are more roomy than others; some are not at all suitable for offshore. There are boats in all sizes that are designed more for entertaining at the dock than for actually going anywhere. That open and roomy salon cabin may be ideal for dinner and cocktails in the marina but imagine being thrown from one side to the other as the boat falls off a wave in a seaway. I want a narrow cabin with plenty of hand-holds.

In my experience and opinion, older designs are more likely to be more versatile and more seaworthy; boats built earlier are more likely to better made (More heavily laid up and less prone to osmotic blistering and delamination) than later model boats. With rare exceptions, new boats are not designed and built for serious voyagers because we are a tiny fraction of the market. They are designed with marketing in mind to appeal to middle aged couples who dream of cruising and built to a retail price point.

In my opinion, a Pearson Triton, Alberg 29 or Albin Vega would be a far better choice than say a new Hunter 38 and for a fraction of the price. If you can afford it, a Bristol Channel Cutter 28 comes pretty close to my idea of an ideal cruiser.


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## ditch (Mar 21, 2009)

Thanks Vega I have been wanting a list of small boats that are good for cruising. I will start a search and check them out.

Capt.K, Thanks for your thoughts : ) 

Ditch


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd recommend you look at *James Baldwin's Boat List.*



ditch said:


> Thanks Vega I have been wanting a list of small boats that are good for cruising. I will start a search and check them out.
> 
> Capt.K, Thanks for your thoughts : )
> 
> Ditch


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## Livia (Jul 20, 2006)

I moved aboard a 35' boat having never even stayed overnight on a boat. I've been living on her 3-4 months a year for two years and last Fall moved on her full-time with my husband.

We are currently in a marina getting ready to cruise full time, and are in our 30s, so take my comments with those grains of salt.

The boat felt tiny when I moved aboard. I didn't know where anything was and we had piles of gear everywhere. Everything was in the way, we were always in each others way and I banged myself at least a dozen times a day.

BUT, every month it felt bigger until now it feels positively spacious. I can't imagine trying to take care of a much bigger boat and I enjoy the simplicity of having rid ourselves of enough stuff so that we still have plenty of storage space to load up the boat with food and spares for cruising.

Our 35' has tons of storage, a small aft cabin with its own door which can be used for guests while coastal cruising and to get things off deck otherwise, and a large-for-us v-berth. 

I think if we were over 6feet tall (or when we become much "creakier" in the joints) our boat would be too tight of a fit.


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## doslocos (Mar 10, 2010)

I lived on a 30 foot Islander for thirteen years and cruised it for four. My cruising was from San Diego, Ca. to Roatan, Honduras and then from Roatan to Thailand via the canal. I single handed but through the canal I had seven people on board. The first question you need to ask is how many crew. If just you then stay with a 30'-35'. The way to determine the proper size is raise and lower the sails when it is raining with about a 35 knot wind. Now imagine you have to do this for the next year. You will quickly figure out the proper size boat. Also don't get complicated with the sail rig. A sloop for a single hander with a roller furling head with continuous line is best. Do not get a single control line type. I used a Hood system which withstood 65+ knot winds and never unfurled. For a main, use a hollow leach so you can shorten or drop sail without having to turn into the wind. Minimum two leach points. Maybe three but I figured if it got that bad I was better dropping the main all together. I like multi-hulls but for a single hander or even small crew a mono hull is best. I agree it depends on your age. A couple in their 20's can get away with a 22 footer but I am now 63 and I would probably not go under 28'. I would suggest if you are doing Blue Water that you stay away from the light weight modern production boats. A boat from the 60's when they didn't know how strong fiberglass was is much better. My Islander was 1.25" thick. I love wood boats but not for cruising. The technology to keep them together is being lost Worldwide. Lastly don't overload your boat. I carried 4000 lbs of supplies, tools, etc. I wish I had only carried in the 2000 lb range. My boat was stiff and that was a good thing but in light airs it did not perform as I wish it had. Best advise I can give, Install a tri-light and use it. If you are going into the Caribbean don't waste the money on a water maker. If you are going the Pacific though it is a good idea. With a water maker, the more they produce is not necessarily the better. No matter the type they all use 4 amps to produce 1 gallon of water. Do not have it dump into your main tank. Have it dump into a separate portable tank in case it comes out bad. Set up ans install a water catching system that again dumps into a portable tank. When I was in Costa Rica I used to get 20 gallons or more rain water in 45 minutes. I pickled my water maker. Be sure to buy ans install a good SSB unit even if you don't want to talk. Report into a net every day. This not just for you but you will never know who you are encouraging or helping on another boat.


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## Funsail (Feb 4, 2010)

We ( two of us) lived and cruised full time on an Ericson 29 for six years. California and Mexico, (Some of that time with doslocos). Our next boat will be 34' or less. There are several 30' boats we are looking at. Others have stated the pros of a smaller boat, cost, maintenance, draft, etc. The cons? you had better like your partner or you'll find *all* about cons. And you can't take as much "Stuff", But I list that under pros to.
We find smaller boats comfortable and cozy. Our thought is " how much space can you take up at one time, any thing else is for the stuff you like to haul around". 
Different strokes. 
Thanks


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

We have a Caliber 33 - It is a great boat for two and we do ok with occasional guests who can stay in the aft cabin together if they are a couple (which they usually are). The advantage of this boat over, say, a 38 or 40 is that it cost a third as much, and has been far cheaper to refit. It is also easier to sail single handed. More important than that is that we didnt want to be "boat poor". The money we didnt spend on a bigger boat means that we have money left over to have a good time in the places we get to. After all, seeing the world is the goal and it takes a bit of money to do that unless you want to limit yourself to seeing places you can walk to from wherever you are anchored.


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

Great thread, with great advice. We've been living aboard at 33-footer for 8 years. We'd been burnt in the past by engine failure, so we insisted on a boat that - in a crisis - we could move by hand or with the dinghy engine. Unexpected benefit was that we could afford marinas, etc; we have shoal draft so we could get into surprising "off the charts" places; we, and not the bank, own our boat. And honestly? We only have one cabin. If you're not close enough with your guests to deal with someone sleeping on the equivalent of the living room sofa, you have no business inviting them aboard for anything more than an afternoon sail anyway. (For the record, on our boat the guests get the V-berth and we sleep in the salon on the pullout) Go small, but GO! ASAP!!!!!


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## ditch (Mar 21, 2009)

I was pleased to see this thread brought back. After rereading it, it again reminded me of the help that it gave.  After a lot of study and personal thinking I have decided that a Southern Cross 31 fits the style of cruising that I will be doing in a safe and affordable way. I am now working so diligently for the change in life style that will allow more freedom and to distances me from the daily grind that I now experience M-F. In a very short time I will be not only browsing the net for SC31’s to study but I will be searching for the SC31 that I will be purchasing and outfitting (or removing equipment) so that it is the very simplest boat that I can do what I want to do in the safest most hassle free way. :


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Respecting everybody´s opinion I would like to point out a con that is very important to me , regarding small boats. Small boats that are good cruising boats are necessarily heavy boats. They need to have a very good max load and that is not possible in a small light boat.

A small heavy weight well built boat can also be seaworthy…but it is slow and not very amusing to sail .

Obviously, like everybody here, I like to cruise, but I like to sail as much as I like to cruise. For me the pleasure of sailing is associated with speed and boat control. In one word: Fun 

For having a light boat that can offer a fast cruising speed, a lot of sailing pleasure, while offering a carrying load suitable for the needs of cruising and a good seaworthiness, I believe it will be needed at least 40ft…and that’s because I travel light and like it simple . 

42 or 43 ft will be probably less Spartan in what regards the load needed to live aboard with a minimum of comfort, in an oceangoing fast and light boat. 

Regards

Paulo


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## doslocos (Mar 10, 2010)

Now we have both sides of the discussion on size. I disagree with the thought that small boats are heavy boats and thus slow boats. That is my opinion though. I sailed with a friend who single handed a 37 foot sloop and made some amazing passages. The difference between those that recommend a larger boat or a smaller one is how much room do you want and the type of sailing do you wish to do. Every boat is a series of compromises. If they weren't then only one type of boat would be out there. What I suggest is that you sit down with a piece of paper and list on one side what you need (expect) in a boat. Really think of what you are going to do with it. On the other side list those objections you will not put up with. Then armed with this go out looking at boats and you will find "your boat". Another suggestion I would have is isolate the space of a boat in your living room and then see what you think. Before you buy, go out on boats in the size you are contemplating. Last thing to remember is that the length of a boat does not necessarily denote it's size. I have been on some 40 footers that do not have as much room inside as my 30 footer did. In contrast they had much more room outside. determine where you plan to spend the most time and it will again tell you what boat to buy.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

doslocos said:


> ... I disagree with the thought that small boats are heavy boats and thus slow boats. That is my opinion though. I sailed with a friend who single handed a 37 foot sloop and made some amazing passages. ...


I didn't have said that, or you have misunderstood me. Small boats can be light and fast boats, but small fast light boats can not carry a load that is suitable with extensive cruising. For that you need a heavier boat, a slower boat.

For example, an Ericson 29 (Funsail boat) has a displacement of 8500 lbs and a sail area of 404 ft2, your old boat, an Islander has a displacement of 8400 lb and a sail area of 355ft2. These are relatively heavy boats with a good loading capacity for their size.

Compare with the displacement and sail area of bigger typical light and fast boat: Elan 31, displacement - 7275 lbs, sail area - 577ft2

The Elan is a lot of fun sailing, but has not the loading capacity for more than coastal sailing. The boat has a relatively small autonomy.

You talk about a 37ft, but a 37ft is a lot closer to a 40ft than to a 30ft.

I guess that it all depends of what you call fast.

I know pretty well what is a light reasonably fast 36ft. I had one. Best average passage speed: 8K (80 miles). Best 24 hours, 175 miles. This boat had a sufficient load capacity for extended cruising, with 2 people aboard.

But I have also been with it on a force 9 storm and even if everything went fine, I would have liked to have a bigger boat.

Anyway that was a *reasonable fast boat* and a *reasonable fun boat* to sail and what I want now is a *really fast* boat and a *really fun* boat to sail

That means going downwind, not at 9/10K, but at 13/16, upwind at 7.5 instead of 6.5 and at 33º of the wind instead of 40º. For that you need a 40ft with the same weight of the 36ft and a lot more sail area.

I know that all sailboats are slow, but I can tell you that sailing downwind at 15k you fell that you are going really fast....and sailing is about felling and pleasure.

I know that this type of sailor and this kind of cruising boat is not mainstream, but I can tell you that this kind of boat is selling (Europe) and that means that I am not the only one that wants to cruise that way.

Regards

Paulo


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

I've had boats up to 42ft. The bigger they are the less you use them while the costs go up exponentially. Trailersaiers are by far the most cost effective though they're limted in the seas they can handle. I've got a 30 footer and a trailersailer now. I think at 30 ft you have a very managable boat especially when singlehandling. You also get headroom which only some 27 footers have and few if any 25 footers have.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Amen to that Walt.


Waltthesalt said:


> I've had boats up to 42ft. *The bigger they are the less you use them while the costs go up exponentially*. Trailersaiers are by far the most cost effective though they're limted in the seas they can handle. I've got a 30 footer and a trailersailer now. I think at 30 ft you have a very managable boat especially when singlehandling. You also get headroom which only some 27 footers have and few if any 25 footers have.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Life is too short not to leave when you are ready. make the boat work for you rather than working for the boat.

The moment my and my wife's careers stop being fun, when we stop being able to find more reasons to wake up and put our noses to the grindstone each morning than not, that is when we cut the lines. if it is this year, then i guess we are heading out in a 23 footer, and we are perfectly okay with that. 
After all nobody ever has any truly great stories about making the most of life on a fully equipped 50 footer.
I mean a story that begins, "There was this one time, we were between Bimini and Freeport, and all of a sudden the icemaker just up and QUIT!" just won't get most readers perched on the edge of their seats.


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

unless The Icemaker was a semi-naked blonde...who cleaned out your stash and left right before the CIA showed up at the marina with an arrest warrant...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

> That means going downwind, not at 9/10K, but at 13/16, upwind at 7.5 instead of 6.5 and at 33º of the wind instead of 40º. For that you need a 40ft with the same weight of the 36ft and a lot more sail area.
> 
> I know that all sailboats are slow, but I can tell you that sailing downwind at 15k you fell that you are going really fast....and sailing is about felling and pleasure.


I'd point out that many sport trimarans, far smaller than 40' LOA, do this regularly.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

sailingdog said:


> I'd point out that many sport trimarans, far smaller than 40' LOA, do this regularly.


Yes, even faster, but with less pointing ability. But they have not the required interior space for extensive cruising and in Europe, particularly on the med it is very difficult to find a place in a marina for them...not to speak of the prices, that are already high and are double to a cat or a tri.

For me the only option would be a 35ft Dragonfly (that folds to the size of a monohull beam) and probably I would be foolish enough to have one (even if that means cruising in a rather Spartan way) if they were not incredibly expensive  (350 000 euro). They are fast and seaworthy. 
YouTube - Dragonfly 35 Trimaran

Regards

Paulo


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

*So I thought: 'This thread is right up my ally...'*

...then I realized - I already posted here a year ago 

New web site and blog
New videos


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

In my expereince, boat use is inversely proportional to length and operating/maintenance cost is proportional to length squared.


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