# Americas Cup 2016



## jppp (Jul 13, 2008)

Yeah yeah yeah Americas cup, blah blah blah. Oh wait, IN NY THIS YEAR? YES!!


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

NY?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

who really cares? I guess some racers or arm chair sailors might but who can relate? I can relate to NASCAR because that Ford looks like a real car even through I know it is the farthest thing from a highway cay car you can get - but those AC boats are not even in the realm of possibilities


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

It's the World Series on 45s that is raced the year prior to the actual AC race. We had it out in Newport a few years back. Very good event. 

May 6-8 on the Hudson River. 

I feel little to no national association with the teams, since they are privately owned all hire professional crews from wherever they like. Therefore, I feel I can simply cheer for Ellison to lose. I really don't care who wins. 

I do have this fantasy at the moment that we might sail out to Bermuda for the races in '17. It's a little impractical, as I would need to berth the boat there and likely fly back home for work, returning later to sail her home. I bet slip space is already booked up.


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## jppp (Jul 13, 2008)

We were planning on bringing the boat back from RI the same weekend. The route home is around the battery and up the river. So we might get a nice view as the fly by at 40kts.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

We'll be in Bermuda for the AC finals next year. I'm mostly looking forward to the atmosphere created by the event.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

AFAIAC the AC was killed by that stupid 1988 challenge by Michael Fay - it's never been the same since. Any vestige of sportsmanship died that year.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I agree the AC has lost a lot of it's original appeal, and the current crop of 'boats' bears little resemblance or relevance to the 'everyman' sailor these days.

But setting aside that nationalistic history, I was unprepared for the interest I had in the last event. I found the staging, the presentation graphics and coverage and the sheer speed and size of these machines quite fascinating to watch. As a long-time racer used to judging crossings at maybe 6-10 knots closing speeds, I can't imagine trying to do the same with both 'boats' are doing 20 knots or more. Of course the drama and the 'comeback' added some angst to the whole affair.

Anyhow, as prepared as I was to discount the whole event, I watched it all, and enjoyed it. It's not the same as before, but on its own merits I think it's pretty spectacular.


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## Kirby Hopper (Jan 24, 2016)

sharkbait said:


> Is there a class for sub 30' boats from the mid 70s piloted by drunken scoundrels?


Offer enough beer and you can make your own AC wherever you want.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

DRFerron said:


> We'll be in Bermuda for the AC finals next year. I'm mostly looking forward to the atmosphere created by the event.


Sailing out or flying? If sailing, do share the details, especially if you've figured out where to keep your boat.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Faster said:


> I agree the AC has lost a lot of it's original appeal, and the current crop of 'boats' bears little resemblance or relevance to the 'everyman' sailor these days.
> 
> But setting aside that nationalistic history, I was unprepared for the interest I had in the last event. I found the staging, the presentation graphics and coverage and the sheer speed and size of these machines quite fascinating to watch. As a long-time racer used to judging crossings at maybe 6-10 knots closing speeds, I can't imagine trying to do the same with both 'boats' are doing 20 knots or more. Of course the drama and the 'comeback' added some angst to the whole affair.
> 
> Anyhow, as prepared as I was to discount the whole event, I watched it all, and enjoyed it. It's not the same as before, but on its own merits I think it's pretty spectacular.


Totally agree. The AC has lost all national connection for most, not that I think the teams care one bit, btw. This is, at it's origin, a yacht club competition, not a national one. Exhibit A.... it's being raced in Bermuda and, best I know, Bermuda doesn't have a team.

My major gripe against the last AC was the apparent disregard for the safety of the competitors. The 72s were spectacular, but very dangerous, and the competitors would have raced on anything they were given. At that level, you don't turn down an AC crew spot no matter how dangerous. IIIC, the boat's next year are going to be improved for this reason.

In the end, the coverage was outstanding. Best I've ever seen for a sailboat race. The comeback was spectacular, even though I would have rather seen Ellison lose, particularly since he was docked going in for CHEATING. Loser still applies, even if he has the trophy.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Minnewaska said:


> Sailing out or flying? If sailing, do share the details, especially if you've figured out where to keep your boat.


Flying. I have family in Paget.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Minnewaska said:


> My major gripe against the last AC was the apparent disregard for the safety of the competitors. The 72s were spectacular, but very dangerous, and the competitors would have raced on anything they were given. At that level, you don't turn down an AC crew spot no matter how dangerous. IIIC, the boat's next year are going to be improved for this reason.


Interesting viewpoint given that it was the competitors themselves who insisted on the unsafe aspects of the boats. They were never meant to foil, but when it was discovered how to get them foiling and still stay within the design rules, the competitors were the ones that refused changes to the rules to allow safer foiling (adjustable rudder foils, better main foil control, etc). Presumably to keep the advantage of their hard gained knowledge and experience. And it was New Zealand leading this - not Ellison.

The new design has thrown all of this out and allows everything possible to make an all out foiling boat. They will be much safer in this regard, although they will still be bleeding edge, and any failure will still be spectacular and dangerous.

Beats the hell out of watching 12 meters slog along at 6kts 10 miles offshore any day.

Mark


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

colemj said:


> ...Beats the hell out of watching 12 meters slog along at 6kts 10 miles offshore any day.


Absolutely. They have FINALLY made the AC a true mass-media capable sport with these boats and the general broadcasting technology surrounding the race.

They have shot themselves in the foot, however, by making the ACWS less accessible. They should be blasting that series all over every media platform. They pushed it much more on Youtube in the last series, putting the entirety of every race up, and it looked like it had pretty good overall numbers. I watched every race. But now that they've gone to more proprietary media channels, the visibility has dropped off the planet.

The ACWS is the perfect means to build excitement for the AC finals. It's always exciting, tight racing - shows off the technology, the personalities, in incredible venues - it's got everything. They really need to take advantage of it much more. In fact, I think in the long-term it's a more valuable asset that the Cup finals.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

smackdaddy said:


> ...
> 
> They have shot themselves in the foot, however, by making the ACWS less accessible. They should be blasting that series all over every media platform. They pushed it much more on Youtube in the last series, putting the entirety of every race up, and it looked like it had pretty good overall numbers. I watched every race. But now that they've gone to more proprietary media channels, the visibility has dropped off the planet.
> 
> ...


I agree. One year I couldn't stop watching on my computer despite wishing for the more traditional boats. I don't race, I don't know a lot about racing, but I was transfixed and I think people like me should be who they court...and there are a lot of us out here. The hardcore racers have already made up their minds for or against, I think. People like me are still malleable.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

colemj said:


> Interesting viewpoint given that it was the competitors themselves who insisted on the unsafe aspects of the boats.


Saying the same thing. Doesn't matter whose idea it was, the team owners could have kept the competitors safer. The competitors are naturally going to do whatever than can to gain an advantage to win. The NFL is just starting to really grasp this.



> Beats the hell out of watching 12 meters slog along at 6kts 10 miles offshore any day.


For sure, but I do wish there were some mono events with as good broadcasting graphics/capabilities as the last AC. The foiling cats are thrilling, but watching race tactics on the 12m can teach mono drivers a thing or two. That is, if you can stand watching them for as long as it takes to finish.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

DRFerron said:


> Flying. I have family in Paget.


Hope you have a great time!!

If your family has any tips on how to bring one's boat to the island for the event, please let me know.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Minnewaska said:


> For sure, but I do wish there were some mono events with as good broadcasting graphics/capabilities as the last AC. The foiling cats are thrilling, but watching race tactics on the 12m can teach mono drivers a thing or two. That is, if you can stand watching them for as long as it takes to finish.


The last AC72 series had more tacking duals, more lead changes, and more boundary burdened/standby events than all previous AC campaigns combined.

Seems to me, tactics are best learned here. Mono/multi, foil/not has nothing to do with it - unless of course you need to see it in slow motion... 

Mark


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

colemj said:


> The last AC72 series had more tacking duals, more lead changes, and more boundary burdened/standby events than all previous AC campaigns combined.
> 
> Seems to me, tactics are best learned here. Mono/multi, foil/not has nothing to do with it - unless of course you need to see it in slow motion...
> 
> Mark


It was more exciting (probably due to graphics broadcasting and speed, more than tactics), but I'm not sure your description of the dual is accurate. Often the leader out of the start box was the winner and never do I recall a totally different approach to the course. Only occasionally would one boat hold a course a bit longer before tacking or jam the other boat to the boundary, otherwise, I recall mostly a follow the leader approach. Maybe I recall incorrectly.

Anyway, I didn't mean one could learn a thing or two about race tactics, I meant one could learn something about VMG and sailing a boat that actually has sails.


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## XSrcing (Aug 22, 2015)

They aren't boats anymore. They are low flying aircraft. We are all IMSA autocrossers complaining that we can't put F1 tech in our Corvettes. 

I love watching AC.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

A decade or so back we used to get a regular showing of the Flying 18s in Sydney harbour.. a bit low octane (relatively speaking) compared to the AC event of today but something of a precursor. Enough speed to not be boring to watch, required athleticism, occasional spectacular wipeouts (with far less risk to competitors). The format was even similar, with fleet racing eliminations and match finals.

May well still be available on Utube, and by now those things are probably on foils too...


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Minnewaska said:


> It was more exciting (probably due to graphics broadcasting and speed, more than tactics), but I'm not sure your description of the dual is accurate. Often the leader out of the start box was the winner and never do I recall a totally different approach to the course. Only occasionally would one boat hold a course a bit longer before tacking or jam the other boat to the boundary, otherwise, I recall mostly a follow the leader approach. Maybe I recall incorrectly.
> 
> Anyway, I didn't mean one could learn a thing or two about race tactics, I meant one could learn something about VMG and sailing a boat that actually has sails.


While there were one or two races like that, most of them were as I described. Check out the individual race synopses: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_America's_Cup#Cup_narrative

Mark


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Minnewaska said:


> Hope you have a great time!!
> 
> If your family has any tips on how to bring one's boat to the island for the event, please let me know.


I'm heading over in the next month or two (it'll take that long to dig out of this blasted snow). While I'm there I'm doing some recon for when we buy our Next Boat and sail it over from Europe so I'll check on AC possibilities and report back.


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## jppp (Jul 13, 2008)

Memories of My 5th grade year living in Rye NY.
2 class mates, Rudy Schaefer- Family owned the first replica of the Yacht America. Had no foils, carbon fiber ones that is.
Bobby Derecktor. His dad made a few AC boats. Lots of fun those days. I'd say the cats are a plausible evolution. 
We kept our boat in Newport. We went out to watch the races when it was there. Hours of waiting followed by two boats flying by . All preceded by what looked like a navy destroyer woop whooping at us to get out of the race course.


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## Val v (Aug 21, 2013)

Could anyone suggest what does it actually take to take my boat to the harbour to watch the cup? How long in advance do I need to be there to be able to see anything? I can't imagine anyone actually anchors do they?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Val v said:


> Could anyone suggest what does it actually take to take my boat to the harbour to watch the cup? How long in advance do I need to be there to be able to see anything? I can't imagine anyone actually anchors do they?


I wonder if they've even finalized the course layout yet. Details are often negotiated with the defender for some time.

I can say, when the World Cup Series was held in Newport a few years back, anchoring anywhere near was not worth it. In fact, iirc, you were not allowed to anchor at all, just float and watch.

Bermuda may be a tad less accessible, but I expect many will go. It's on our radar. Just finding a place for the boat, might be a struggle. We have a bead on a private mooring, but it's not locked in yet.


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## Orcatkt (May 3, 2016)

From where I sit the America's Cup has not so much lost its edge as it has transformed into a true top level racing sport. While the 12m's were more graceful and had more in common with the everyday sailor, the ACWS has given sailing a F1 style event to work with where racing is closer and more exciting, allowing a larger audience. Personally the best years for my interests were the 1980's-2005ish. There was something endlessly fantastic about the boats during those years. That said, the big boat challenge of Fay vs Connor was just ugly for all involved. Lawyers and racing should never be mixed, although, building a wing sail cat to compete in a traditionally monohull race is just as low. 
While I watch the AC still I prefer to waste my time on the Volvo and rewatching highlights from the old Whitbread. The sense of insanity keeps me hooked


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