# Opinions sought on Walker Bay tenders vs. RIBs and Portabotes.



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Some of you have seen the steel pilothouse cutter I'm planning to use by 2009 for long-term cruising. I own a mid-90s Zodiac C310 Yachtline rigid inflatable with 16" PVC tubes. These tubes are filthy, gummy and surprisingly not currently leaking. The RIB part now has a new glassed in center strake. The possibility exists to completely replace the tubes with Hypalon pontoons and to size them upwards to 17 inches for better buoyancy and protection from the sea. The weight is about 50 kilos empty (112 lbs.)

I also own a mid-80s Honda BF100 four-stroke (9.9 HP) and a late-90s Mercury 9.9 HP two-stroke. The Honda needs a carb rebuild but was laid up for 12 years and looks much newer. The four-stroke weighs about 44 kilos (100 lbs.) and the two-stroke about 30 kilos (70 lbs.)

Given my desire to use a windvane and the fact that I have a transom hung rudder, I have decided against the use of davits. I had a pair until one snapped, and not only do I not wish to repeat that experience, I do not believe they are appropriate for bluewater cruising.

So, the tender will be lashed forward on deck. I plan on anchoring out a fair bit. I am considering the following options as a tender:

1) Retube the Zodiac for approximately $2,600 in Hypalon. Expensive, but the PVC will die in a week in the tropics. Yes, I've covered it.

Pluses: I know how to drive it and it carries 500 kilos of gear and would make a decent dive boat and is beachable. While no replacement for a proper liferaft, it's hard to sink. It rows adequately, and can be towed easily.

Minuses: It is 3.10 meters (10' 2") long, which is a lot of foredeck. It isn't easy to bridle on and off the boat, and I am not convinced that I really want to take a 9.9 HP of any description on and off it. Sure, I can use it as a 'fun boat' on quiet nights (it will do nearly 20 knots on the plane with full throttle), but I don't see that kind of activity being a big part of living aboard as we cruise.

2) Porta-bote: Porta-Bote Dinghy

Pluses: Very stowable, especially as I have overbuilt railings and a pilothouse roof to which I could lash this. Definitely the winner in terms of keeping clear of a working boat. Requires only the smallest of outboards (4 HP or less), is light (28 kg for the 10 foot model), can carry 300 kgs or so, can be sailed and rowed. Can be towed. Durable, and won't degrade in strong UV light. At $1,500-$1,800, comparatively cheap.

Minuses: Must be assembled, and I understand this takes a minimum of 15 minutes. I have questions about build quality, and hear that the plastic seats are too flimsy and must be replaced with wood. I don't hear enough of how they work in a seaway of any size (I've had an inflatable in four foot waves, and while I got good and wet, I got through and didn't feel in any danger.) I don't know if I'd want to take a loaded Porta-bote through a choppy harbour.

3) Walker Bay Rigid Inflatable Dinghy Model 275R or H:
Walker Bay® | products | Dinghy, inflatable boats, small boats, small sail boats, row boats, small fishing boats

Pluses: A hard dinghy and a good rower with an inflatable collar that greatly increases stability and allows it to be used as a dive/swim boat. Compact: two feet less than the Zodiac and Portabote, and at 40 kilos, easier to bridle into the water. Can be sailed with an optional kit. Takes the same 2 to 4 HP outboard as the Portabote. The whole sailing kit included model costs $300 less brand-new than just retubing the old Zodiac in Hypalon. An additional benefit is that it is like a harder-to-flip Opti that I would let an eight-year-old use as his "fun boat" in 10 knots or so. Not the case with a Zodiac or a Portabote with an outboard. Easy to tow, and easy to keep clean.

Minuses: Smaller, three people maximum, but the "deck footprint" is more modest. Cargo capacity is lowest: this is strictly a people-mover for two adults and a kid, or a grocery-getter for one adult.

So I am soliciting comments and observations. I don't mind rowing, but my kid would love something that could turn into a sailboat, I'm sure. I suspect I will downscale the outboard size, however: I just don't want to haul the thing on and off everytime I use the tender, but I can no longer be convinced that davits are sensible (and they cost too much).

Thanks.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I have a 12' 6" portabote... and it handles choppy water pretty well, especially with an outboard, rather than rowing it. They're actually pretty stable, since the hull tends to absorb and deflect waves a bit more than a rigid dinghy of the same size. Pretty easy to get into from the water too. Rows pretty well too in a pinch. 

Definitely need to replace the plastic seats and transom with marine ply, preferably fiberglassed over... Two people can assemble it in about 10 minutes, once the boat has "relaxed" and they've gotten some practice doing so. 

They also have a sailing rig for the Porta-bote.


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## Hawkeye25 (Jun 2, 2005)

I had an Avon 3.1 RIB with a Mercury 9.9 2 stroke, both model year 2000, and it DID perform well in most ways, but it was a BEAR to stow on the deck (especially in stiff wind) and it was virtually impossible to row into any kind of wind and current. There were CONSTANT maintanence chores and frequent repairs. I had to find and fix two tiny little leaks in the hypalon and disassemble the carb several times for cleaning. And putting that outboard on and off in any kind of rough weather was a nightmare. Plus, I either had to remove the engine at night, worry about the entire boat and motor being stolen (a reality even here in sunny Cortez) or chain and lock everything to Falcon at night. I was SO glad to sell it.

The Walker is not a good choice, in my humble opinion, because it is made of plastic. Not the nice plastic we call fiberglass, but more like that OTHER plastic we call PVC and use to make plumbing with. It SEEMS like a good idea, but let me tell you a true story.

"When I first launched Falcon in November in Lynn Harbor, a little ways north of Boston, I didn't have a dingy, so a friend gave me a plastic dingy. It worked fine and rowed easily back and forth the half mile out to Falcon. One brutally cold night a month later, at 11 PM with the wind howling straight at me from about where Falcon was moored, I rowed steadily outward over a small (about two foot) chop that was beginning to foam the bay. Halfway out, I felt water splash onto me heels. The full moon revealed a crack, starting at my left hand oarlock and reaching almost to the keel. Each time I crested a wave, more water came in. Cold, cold water. I redoubled my efforts and rowed like a maddog for Falcon and the crack reached the keel. When I grabbed Falcon and pulled myself aboard, my ass and my feet, halfway to the knees were soaked and the dingy filled with water and floated like the sodden wreck it was, nearly awash to the rail. I tied it off and reminded myself never to trust a plastic dingy again."

For now, I am rebuilding a sweet little fiberglass punt-nose sailing dingy that rows well, is east to stow, sails as well as might be expected, and has excellent flotation. I am also looking at a small Nissan air-cooled two HP outboard that I think weighs about 8 kg or 18 pounds. Surely not as flashy as a $5500 RIB setup, but very gentle on the mind and the wallet.

Hawk


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BTW, got a 3.5 HP Tohatsu four-stroke for the Porta-bote and the inflatable dinghies... very nice little engine...


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

So far, I've found a dinghy that will cover some ground in a short amount of time is a plus. I have a Walker Bay 8 (without tubes) and a 2hp motor. My choice was based solely on weight and storage space on deck. I can't say I'm displeased with it, just wish at times I had more.

Oh, price was a consideration as well.

_Currently at 25 46 43 N 80 11 08 W_


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Thanks for the responses and keep 'em coming. If I can get enough evidence in favour of the Portabote, it's the clear winner in terms of stowage, a tie for sailing ability (I think it uses lee boards like old Dutch boats), and even costs the least. The assembly aspect is a drag, but I can glass over a board easily enough.

I was surprised to hear of the Walker's fragility. 

Of course, I could always get a Fatty Knees or other Pardey-approved traditional tender, but I wanted something a little less massive and a little more stable. I can see being in perhaps less favoured anchorages due to the size of my ground tackle and the seakindly motion of the boat, an advantage over the lightweight cruisers that must get well inshore. So I can see some longish hauls.

Keep it coming, guys. Telling me what has failed miserably is just as instructional as a positive testimonial (unless it's a Solar Stik, and then I don't want to know...)


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

valiente-

Just FYI, the only reason I got an inflatable, is that I can't normally store my porta-bote on my boat, since the amas are folded so it can fit in a slip. So I got the inflatable to use while I'm just weekending and daysailing. When I go cruising long-term in it, I will leave the amas unfolded.. and the porta-bote will store on the ama deck, which keeps it out of the way and fairly safe from most mishaps.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

I'm not so sure he was referring to the Walker Bay in regards to fragility. Mine seems quite sturdy, and the material doesn't seem prone to becoming brittle in cold weather based on my experiences this past winter in below freezing weather.

_Currently at 25 46 43 N 80 11 08 W_


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I would not rule out the Walker just yet. Hawkeye borrowed a "plastic" boat, not a Walker, and there are all sorts of plastics. He was also in freezing temps which, I suspect, caused the failure. No freeze where I am going.

PBreez made the compromise I prefer...easier to stow, lighter engine (I'm 4 h.p.) I would rather get wet on occasion and make extra trips once in a while rather than struggle with size, weight of bigger, heavier options.

Most common compromise is a 9' inflatable with 2 stroke 9.9 h.p. 2 stroke Yammies can be serviced anywhere. Not so for Honda and many others.


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## CosmosMariner (Dec 21, 2006)

There are lots of choices and it depends on your requirements as to what the solution is. We decided that for cruising in our Watkins 25 we would go with a 9' 3" Avon R260 Hypalon rollup inflatable, 100lbs, 17" tubes. Stowage underway was a big consideration. Merc 5hp 2 cycle weighs 47lbs and pushes the Avon to plane empty, has plenty of power loaded to get back to the boat with stores and 2 people. No inflatable rows as well as a hard dinghy but I don't intend to row in rough weather. Setting out a kedge in rough weather....if it happens I'll worry about that then, of course the motor probably won't start and I'll lose an oar anyway . 

As far as using an inflatable as a life saving platform read about Dr. Alain Bombard's intentional 1953 Atlantic crossing in a 15' inflatable with small sail and NO provisions. He was the founder of Zodiac. Also a must read is Navy pilot George Sigler's book 'Experiment in Survival' (c. 2001 Vero Technical Support, Vero Beach FL) about his 1974 trip from San Fransisco to Hawaii with another pilot Charlie Gore in a 15' inflatable with sail. I worked at West Marine part time for 5 years and literally 'snapped together' a few Walker Bay Boats for sale. I chose not to own one for my purposes although for use on a lake or overnight gunkholing they are a reasonably low cost solution. 

Our son returned from a 6 month cruise to the Bahamas and back last year in his Watkins 27. He has decided to do a circumnavigation but in a 35' boat this time. He has chosen to make his primary dinghy an old 10' fiberglass sailing dinghy, 150 lbs, that will take a 10hp o/b. If he can afford it he will also get a used inflatable, probably a Carib.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

About the only "form factor" I will rule out at this point is a non-rigid inflatable. Aside from the easily-stowed attribute, it has none of the qualities I think I'd find necessary in a real-life anchorage situation. My primary use is transport to and from shore, frequently with supplies. Rowing distances doesn't bother me, but I would have up to a five hp outboard, as light as I could afford. My secondary use would be as an anchoring aid, and thirdly, as a sailing tender for amusement. My problem is, having decided against the cost and compromises of davits, how to stow on deck (or on the pilothouse if it was a Portabote) some sort of tender that will interfere the least with cruising operations.

I would have a separate 4 or 6 person liftraft on deck in a valise.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

If you are into a quick building of a boat, "Chesapeke boats" (sp?) has a pull apart sailable dinghy. I am not at home with the link, IIRC CLCboats.com or something close too there of, may be an answer you have not looked at or thought of. There are a few other brands of stackable pullapart style boats too. Not saying this is the right answer, but an additional option to what you have looked at.

Marty


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

As a means of comparison, here's my Walker Bay on deck (32' LOA)


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## Hawkeye25 (Jun 2, 2005)

Yes, the others are right. The 'plastic boat' I had was not a Walker Bay, and the Walker Bay is definately better made. My concern isn't one plastic boat over another, it is the manner of failure once the plastic fails. It just cracks fast and continuously until it hits a reason to stop, like the keel or some other thick or reinforced section. 

It was the method of manufacture and the material I was talking about.

Hawk


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

I have a Walker Bay 8 footer, also. But I elected to buy a davit to hang the dink but also for a place to put my solar panels. I have survival cancer and I had a heart attack. that being said, I saw no reason to fight a dinky in tropical heat to get it on deck. That is another reason for the davit. I also been to Mexico and that is the reason I bought a watermaker, lol. But that is another story.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I'm not against davits. I'm against davits for me. I have had one fail underway, and they don't compute with a windvane being a priority. I also cringe when I think of the weight off the stern and the strong possibility of them stopping a following wave in a fairly destructive manner. But I would modify my position were I in your shoes and spent most of my time in the islands, Mexico or, say, Florida, where a lot of time is spent going from boat to boat via tender.

I also have about 20 foot of J measurement with a good 16 feet of deck between the staysail stay and the mast tabernacle. A deck lashed tender covers both saloon hatches and the large forepeak deck hatch. I could lash a Walker Bay 8.5 footer across the beam at the tabernacle and still have maneuvering room, but then I lose visibility in the pilothouse.

Everything's a compromise.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

I bought my Walker Bay used off of Craigslist. It came with an electric motor, oars and the sailing kit for $300.00. It was a no brainer. I don't intend to use the electric motor. I am looking for a 2 or 2.5 hp motor now.

The boat I was looking at before I found the Waker Bay was this ONE.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I suppose for $300 I could use it around here for two years, beat the hell out of it on purpose and see if it survives my tender touch (HAHA!!!). Good idea. Didn't think of buying used, but it could be a way to test some theories. I could probably trade an older 9.9 for a newer 4 HP pretty easily, too.

Boatex is another brand I like that's similar to the Walker Bay, FYI.


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## CosmosMariner (Dec 21, 2006)

freesail99...tell about the watermaker ....start another thread? I just installed a PUR Power Survivor 40E on Wu-Hsin.


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## yotphix (Aug 18, 2006)

Valiente said:


> I also have about 20 foot of J measurement with a good 16 feet of deck between the *staysail stay *and the mast tabernacle.


I can't help but wonder whether you normally set a staysailstaysail on that *inner forestay*


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

As opposed to the foresail stay or the jib stay? I'm just aiming for clarity, folks.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

What about one of these ??

NN10 Nesting Row Power Sail Dinghy #2


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Here is a link to the nesting dinghy I was thinking of last night, similar to teh NN10 Sailormann mentions, but you have to assemble this on via stich and glue fashion

Passagemaker Dinghy Rowing Sailing Boat Kits Plans - Chesapeake Light Craft

Marty


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I hadn't considered a nesting dinghy...maybe I should. Those are both very nice...if quite different in appearance...examples. Thanks, guys.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

blt2ski. I like that solution better than any of the others! Nice boat!!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Very pretty dinghy... unfortunately, still a bit on the largish side, even with the front 45" nesting.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Sailormann said:


> What about one of these ??
> 
> NN10 Nesting Row Power Sail Dinghy #2


So I phoned this nesting dinghy maker up, and I think he makes a good product. If I bought one, I'd be the first guy in Toronto to do so, although he says he's sold about a hundred so far. He makes about three a month, and like any good sailor, is taking July and August off.

I'm going to do some measurements of my foredeck and see if this is feasible. Both pieces are the same length as my Zodiac, but weigh 20 lbs. less and you can drop both pieces in the water and assemble it while floating (assuming you've got hold of the pointy end via a lanyard...)

Nested, it's five foot six long. That could traverse my deck forward of the cabinhouse rise, directly over the forepeak hatch, and would still not interfere with my staysail nor my view forward from the pilothouse.

It's not cheap, but it looks sturdy as hell, and is fibreglass, not plastic, meaning I can repair it myself. It also looks as if it rows well and can sail well. You can get an "ocean version" with the forward section part-decked...could be handy when transporting my delicates!


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Here is a boat by Glen-L marine, Centerfold ............don't go in the gutter on me guys, that is the name of it! An 8' pram style boat. Not as pretty in my eye as the CLC Passagemaker, or the NN10, but a smaller nesting style option.

wwwclarkcraft.com has some folding boat plans from 8 to 14'. I could not get all the links to work a bit ago. I think there is a pullapart/nesting style boat in there plan catalog too. Both designers havin gbeen around for yrs, the pics are from the BW 60's days, with no new updated pics.

If you do not want to make the boat, then the NN10 could be a nice choice. I seem to recall when I saw one in "Sail" there was a way to cover the whole boat like a life raft. Altho that may have been a different boat in the same "whats new" page of articles also.

Marty


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## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

Walker Bay units are made from injection molded polypropylene (PP) resin, not polyvinyl chloride (PVC). It is naturally translucent, which would make for a neat special edition dinghy. Polypropylene has good fatigue resistance, is more rigid than most other plastics, and is tough enough to be a replacement for ABS. It also is more environmentally friendly. Naturally all this comes at a price. It costs more than PVC.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

There is another plastic dinghy that might make sense. It called a Portland Pudgy, and has an available sailing rig. Not the prettiest of boats, but can also be equipped with an inflatable canopy and act as a sailable life raft for four.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Interesting, although the Pudgy is quite heavy for seven foot eight inches and can't be nested. 

This is good stuff, guys. You're collectively putting me right off getting the Zodiac retubed, and that's likely a good thing.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Just food for thought, my point of bringing up the nesting dingy was that it appeared to be a dingy choice you may not have known about or really were not paying attention too. And it may very well work for your needs. 

As far as redoing the zodiac? Not sue which floor you have, ie hard fiberglass, air inflate or wood. 

Depending upon the type, ie an air inflate or folding wood floor, it may be worth retubing, and putting it in a locker, where inflating it on deck may work better in some ports, bays harbor etc to get you ahsore vs a nesting style. 

Of course, this depend upon the size boat, how much room for extra you have.......My 30' for local cruising is mostly a tow behind, and I will probably go with something on par with a fixed ie non nesting passage maker or equal. Then I want to build the dingy as a project....in my spare time.........spare time........that is what now?

Or I will go with a gigharbor dingy or Rich passege Minto if I buy a hard dinghy. 

For your apparent intended needs and use, the nesting dingy looked like a good alternitive vs the three intitially mentioned.

The pudgy is the dingy that was in the back of my mnd in previous post. 

Marty


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

My Zodiac is a robust RIB (fibreglass), which is good. It has 16" PVC tubes that are now 10 years old...not so good.

I will be the first to tell you that I do not have the skills or the patience to build a nesting dinghy and would rather have one that came from a mould than my workbench. I'm OK to put together binocular boxes and to encapsulate marine ply, but it would take me a lot of time to build something with that many close tolerances.

I saw the Pudgy, but it's smaller and heavier than the NN10. If I had a 32 footer and wanted a liferaft/tender combo, it would be good. But a five and a half footer than expands to 10 feet would be very nice. Too bad Steve Callaghan's not making the "Clam" anymore: it seemed from the description like a Walker Bay RID that folded like a Portabote! AKA All things to all people...


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