# Cutter rig vs. sloop rig



## TSOJOURNER

We are very new to sailing and have a few questions. What are the pro''s and con''s of a cutter rig vs. a sloop rig?


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## DuaneIsing

While we wait for the real experts to reply, I can tell you what little I know: cutters are generally thought to offer more options for balancing your sailplan. Having, for example, a genoa on a headstay furler, and a smaller staysail (some prefer hanked-on over a furler), you can quickly quickly furl the genny and get the staysail into action in a blow. The staysail is closer to the mast, moving the center of effort closer to the midpoint of the boat, as well as lower.

Some claim that tacking a large headsail around the forestay can be a problem, but there are designs for temporarily repositioning the forestay when you are using just the headstay and genoa.

I believe that a cutter''s best point of sail is reaching. With the wind from close to broad reach, the extra sail can offer a lot of drive. While beating and running, the staysail is said to offer little to the sailplan. Of course, there are exceptions to this, too. I have seen some boats with two poles running the headsail and staysail "wing and wing."

Duane


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## Jeff_H

Rigs-cutter vs. sloop rig

Today these terms are used quite loosely as compared to their more traditional definitions. Traditionally the sloop rig was a rig with a single mast located forward of 50% of the length of the sailplan. In this traditional definition a sloop could have multiple jibs. Cutters had a rig with a single mast located 50% of the length of the sailplan or further aft, multiple headsails and reefing bowsprit. Somewhere in the 1950''s or 1960''s there was a shift in these definitions such that a sloop only flew one headsail and a cutter had multiple headsails and mast position became irrelevant. For the sake of this discussion I assume we are discussing the modern definition of a sloop and a cutter.

Historically, when sail handling hardware was primitive and sails were far more stretchy than they are today, the smaller headsails and mainsail of a traditional cutter were easier to handle and with less sail stretch, allowed earlier cutters to be more weatherly (sail closer to the wind) than the sloops of the day. With the invention of lower stretch sailcloth and geared winches, cutters quickly lost their earlier advantage. 

Today sloops are generally closer winded and easier to handle. Their smaller jibs and larger mainsail sailplan are easier to power up and down. Without a jibstay to drag the Genoa across, sloops are generally easier to tack. With less hardware sloops are less expensive to build. 

Sloops come in a couple varieties, masthead and fractional. In a masthead rig the forestay and jib originates at the masthead. In a fractional rig, the forestay originated some fraction of the mast height down from the masthead. Historically, sloops were traditionally fractionally rigged. Fractional rigs tend to give the most drive per square foot of sail area. Their smaller jibs are easier to tack and they reef down to a snug masthead rig. Today they are often proportioned so that they do not need overlapping headsails, making them even easier to sail. One of the major advantages of a fractional rigs is the ability when combined with a flexible mast, is the ability to use the backstay to control mast bend. Increasing backstay tension does a lot of things on a fractional rig: it tensions the forestay flattening the jib, and induces mast bend, which flattens the mainsail and opens the leech of the sail. This allows quick depowering as the wind increases and allows a fractional rig to sail in a wider wind speed range than masthead rig without reefing, although arguably requiring a bit more sail trimming skills. 

While fractional rigs used to require running backstays, better materials and design approaches have pretty much eliminated the need for running backstays. That said, fractional rigs intended for offshore use, will often have running backstays that are only rigged in heavy weather once the mainsail has been reefed. The geometry of these running backstays typically allow the boat to be tacked without tacking the running backstays. 

Masthead rigs came into popularity in the 1950''s primarily in response to racing rating rules that under-penalized jibs and spinnakers and so promoted bigger headsails. Masthead sloops tend to be simpler rigs to build and adjust. They tend to be more dependent on large headsails and so are a little harder to tack and so require a larger headsail inventory if performance is important. Mast bend is harder to control and so bigger masthead rigs will often have a babystay that can be tensioned to induce mast bend in the same way as a fractional rig does. Dragging a Genoa over the babystay makes tacking a bit more difficult and slower. While roller furling allows a wider wind range for a given Genoa, there is a real limit (typically cited 10% to 15%) to how much a Genoa can be roller furled and still maintain a safely flat shape. 

Cutters, which had pretty much dropped out of popularity during a period from the end of WWII until the early 1970''s, came back into popularity with a vengeance in the early 1970''s as an offshore cruising rig. In theory, the multiple jibs allow the forestaysail to be dropped or completely furled, and when combined with a reefed mainsail and the full staysail, results in a very compact heavy weather rig (similar to the proportions of a fractional rigged sloop with a reef in the mainsail). As a result the cutter rig is often cited as the ideal offshore rig. Like fractional rigs, cutter rigs intended for offshore use, will often have running backstays that are only rigged in heavy weather once the mainsail has been reefed. Unlike the fractional rig, the geometry of these running backstays typically requires that the running backstays be tacked whenever the boat is tacked. 

Cutters make a less successful rig for coastal sailing. Generally cutters tend to have snug rigs that depend on larger Genoas for light air performance. Tacking these large Genoas through the narrow slot between the Jibstay and Forestay is a much harder operation than tacking a sloop. As a result many of today''s cutters have a removable jibstay that can be rigged in heavier winds. This somewhat reduces the advantage of a cutter rig (i.e. having a permanently rigged and ready to fly small, heavy weather jib). 

Cutters these days generally do not point as close to the wind as similar sized sloops. Because of the need to keep the slots of two headsails open enough to permit good airflow, headsails cannot be pulled in as far as on a sloop without stalling out the slot. Since cutter rigs are generally associated with the less efficient underbodies that are typical of offshore boats, this is less of a problem that it might sound. Cutters also give away some performance on deep broad reaches and when heading downwind because the Genoa acts in the bad air of the staysail. 

Jeff


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## KyLeah49

I have sailed on a 48' cutter with a 150 genoa. While running, or on a reach, we used the staysail. When beating or close hauled, we furled the staysail and brought the genoa out to 150 as if we were a sloop. It seemed to work for us. So I agree that a cutter rig does offer more versitility that a straight sloop.


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## krozet

This has to be a record... Responding to a post over 7 years old?


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## mitiempo

krozet
At least it's the kind of information that anyone can use today. It's worse when someone asked an obscure question in 2002 and somebody answers it today.


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## night0wl

One thing that wasn't mentioned here...maintenance. More sails means more sailmakers bills, more rigging to inspect/replace, more furlers that can get jammed/break bearings, more sheets to lead aft, more holes in the deck to leak, more tension points on the mast...etc. Just more overall systems complexity in general

That being said, there is much to be said about the flexibility by having two headsails on roller furlers during a blow...


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## CoastalEddie

Sloops may sail better, be easier to maintain, and be simpler overall...*but*, cutters are just plain ol' prettier. Does one really need a better reason to have a staysail in the foretriangle?


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## mitiempo

nightOwl
Or 2 headsails not on roller furlers.


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## Longkeel32

Hey Krozet, Well I might just make a new record!  responding to a post 7 yrs later than the 7 yr later post to the first post! )) I just loved writing that. 

Anyway, I see you you have ... or had a Contest 33. We have a contest 31, hull # 15. Not the HT. I was wondering if you have ever considered converting it to a cutter rig, or just adding a running forestay for a storm sail?

Wishing this finds you well!

Best ~ Curtis


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## bobperry

Hard to argue with aesthetic preferences.


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## Longkeel32

At least mine!


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## Pierat

krozet said:


> This has to be a record... Responding to a post over 7 years old?


How's this for a record: I'm reading the original post after 14 years; and (while admittedly, I'm just a wanna be sailor thus far), it still seems relevant. I'm currently reading _Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts_ by the Tech Committee of the Cruising Club of America, and was getting confused by their description of various rigging styles. Incidentally, the copy I have appears to be a 1987 edition; does anyone know if there is a more up-to-date edition of _Offshore Yachts_?
Thanks greatly
Landlubber


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## bobperry

Stop reading. Go sailing.


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## Jeff_H

Pierat said:


> How's this for a record: I'm reading the original post after 14 years; and (while admittedly, I'm just a wanna be sailor thus far), it still seems relevant. I'm currently reading _Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts_ by the Tech Committee of the Cruising Club of America, and was getting confused by their description of various rigging styles. Incidentally, the copy I have appears to be a 1987 edition; does anyone know if there is a more up-to-date edition of _Offshore Yachts_?
> Thanks greatly
> Landlubber


I do not believe that there is a later edition of_ Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts_ than the 1987 edition. I would caution against applying the conclusions of this book to literally.

While much of the science is still valid, in the 30 plus years since the original research was complied, much has been learned about applying that science. The improvements in the sailing sciences and the the way it is applied means that many of the so-called undesirable characteristics have proven not to be all that undesirable.

But also like many of the post-Fastnet-Disaster books, the basic conclusions were predicated on research that used IOR era designs as the surrogates for 'modern yacht design boats'. The problem with using the IOR era boats as a model, is that they had a broad range of design elements which were early in their development, they had IOR rule specific design compromises that collective compromised their seaworthiness and ease of handling, and contained extreme examples of what we now know to be dubious design practice. It is therefore important to understand that over the past 30 years (or over 35 years if measured from the Fastnet), yacht design practices have evolved in a manner which addresses many of the deficiencies that were part and parcel of the IOR era.

I still suggest that this is a worthwhile book to read because much of the science is still valid, but the conclusions need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Jeff


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## Yorksailor

For long range cruising boat a staysail is very valuable but not essential. Our boat is happiest and easiest to sail in 30 knots+ with deep reefed main and staysail. However, the furler broke 50 nm out of Panama and we sailed 7,000 nm to New Zealand with only the genoa but when reefed the effort moved up the mast.

Short tacking the genoa through the narrow slot between the two forestays is a pain and it makes it impossible to do well in the Wednesday evening club races.

For a in-the-bay sailor I would buy a sloop but off-shore in bad weather I love my cutter!

Phil


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## gptyk

bobperry said:


> Stop reading. Go sailing.


What this guy said. I hear he knows a little about boats


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## Pierat

bobperry said:


> Stop reading. Go sailing.


Agreed wholeheartedly - but I still need to find someone willing to take me. Any suggestions there?


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## Pierat

Jeff_H said:


> I still suggest that this is a worthwhile book to read because much of the science is still valid, but the conclusions need to be taken with a grain of salt.
> 
> Jeff


Excellent point (which I also wholeheartedly agree with). I like the book, since regardless of the conclusions, it nonetheless presents questions and considerations for a newbie like me to contemplate. That the science is still valid is an extra bonus. And regarding both the science and conclusions, my philosophy is to take it all with a grain of salt, but more particularly, to also examine it in context with as many other sources as possible (within reason). 
All excellent comments above, and greatly appreciated. Thanks
Pie Rat


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## SVAuspicious

Jeff_H said:


> I still suggest that this (_ Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts_) is a worthwhile book to read because much of the science is still valid, but the conclusions need to be taken with a grain of salt.


I suggest the science remains solid. It is the context and boundary conditions that have moved. Underlying assumptions (like the IOR rule) are not apparent because "everyone knows." A very useful application of older books like _ Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts_ is to lead the reader to ask "why?" This is far from taking statements with a grain of salt. This is about enhancing understanding. Consider the portion of the Construction Methods thread about top hat structures: "why?" leads to discussions of section modulus, neutral axis, moments of inertia, tensile strength, compressive strength, and shear strength. You don't have to become a structural engineer to understand the concepts and even some basic scaling ("this is stronger than that"). The steel industry has (or had) catalogs of shapes (that include top hats by the way, going back at least to the 40s); there is all kinds of great information in those catalogs and a lot to be learned - compare one shape to another of similar size and the same shapes in different sizes.

The same methodology applies to sail construction and shape, to electrical systems, to electronics and networking, and even to human factors like deck and cabin arrangements and electronics UIs.



Pierat said:


> Agreed wholeheartedly - but I still need to find someone willing to take me. Any suggestions there?


Local yacht clubs and other racing programs, hang out around marinas, develop relationships with dockmasters and harbormasters who will point you to people looking for crew.

I learned a lot racing, especially small boats. I made some mistakes that led to great lessons that endure today. Racing taught me sail trimming, boat speed, pointing, crew management, the application of geometry and trigonometry (trigonometry is beautiful), and prioritizing. I also learned a lot sailing with people whose built-in crews grew up and moved out. Cruising taught me that a really good meal is much better than sandwiches, to pay attention to getting enough rest, to letting go, that sometimes the thing to focus is a sunset or mist over the water at dawn; oh - also how to fix darn near anything on the boat. *grin*


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## Rob Patterson

Several years ago I sailed a thirty something foot hunter with a cutter rig. no problem tacking. that boat turned on a dime.

My coronado 23 is sloop rigged but has trouble with tacking in light wind.

I just did a sea trial on a Hans Christian 48T. Wind was light. No problems tacking.

I like the cutter for appearance and more options. I plan on extensive cruising.


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## Stu Jackson

CoastalEddie said:


> Sloops may sail better, be easier to maintain, and be simpler overall...*but*, cutters are just plain ol' prettier. Does one really need a better reason to have a staysail in the foretriangle?


Ach, your avatar belies your post. :2 boat:


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