# Trailerable blue water boat exist?



## john61ct

Is there a relatively common boat designed for passage making, say even to Hawaii

that can also be trailered in the U.S. without having to get permits?

Ideally can be single-handed.


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## RegisteredUser

nor'sea 27


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## hellosailor

Basically, that's the Pardey's Serafyn.


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## Arcb

The problem seems to be, modern manufacturers don't seem to consider this market to be of interest. There are very few new boats under 8 feet in beam that are built to handle heavy going.

I think you're going to be looking at older boats for sub 8' beams. That's what I learned when I was looking for a trailer able boat that could take some weather. And they are heavy.

Contessa 26 maybe.

I would maybe ask myself how much transoceanic stuff you really are planning on doing, or if a lighter duty boat would work for you


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## aa3jy

http://www.flicka20.com/Content/documents/newsletters/ff_08_03.pdf


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## colemj

I'm not really understanding the advantage of a long-distance cruising boat being able to be trailered. It seems like one would only need to transport it across land once, then be gone for a long period of time - with returning and needing to transport it again being unlikely. 

Transporting once can be done with commercial companies or delivery skippers. If one did return after many years, one would just hire out again.

In your example, once you haul it across country and sail it to Hawaii, are you really going to immediately turn around, sail it back, and trailer it to another coast for another long passage, etc.? 

Perhaps you have a specific scenario in mind that I am missing.

As for single handing, it would seem that any boat that could be trailered without permits would also be small enough to single hand with a minimum of appropriate system modifications.

Mark


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## RegisteredUser

West Coast to Magadan....train it to Lake Baikal....train it to Caspian...
Truck, train...keep going...
Ferry it.
RoRo it.

So many options. Limits are weather/conditions and bucks...


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## colemj

Haul it over the Andes like Tristan Jones...

Mark


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## RegisteredUser

Chartering on Lake Titicaca...?
People like weird stuff.


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## colemj

I like saying "Titicaca"...

Having been there, it would be a very boring charter.

Mark


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## SHNOOL

NorSea 27, damned fine boat... cramped for more than 2. Still I think its gorgeous.
Flicka 20 if you are alone and more adventurous.

I'm proud this group came up with those boats without me


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## RegisteredUser

Atitlan is a nice place....same play.
The hairpins up and down will limit length.


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## jeremiahbltz2

Oh, come now, nobody's suggested a mini 650 yet? Towing - Fixed Keel and Canting Cradle


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## Totuma

Falmouth Cutter


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## solarfry

AlMost all states allow you to tow boats up to 8'6" wide. Others only crack down if boat is wider than 9'. YOu can tow boats wide than 8'6" if you have an overwide permit. that usually requires a vehicle in front and another behind towing vehicle.


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## Skipper Jer

Albin Vega 27 and our Nor'sea is for sale.


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## Daveinet

How about an F-33 at 8'6'' or F-33x, which is 9'6'' wide. Anything less than 10ft wide requires a minor permit that is good for a year and you can tow it anywhere. No need to have extra drivers and big signs. I think either boat would likely be valid for passage making.


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## john61ct

Thanks everyone so far, keep 'em coming if there are more.

8'6" seems to be the max for many states, and some are a real pain.

But I can see getting away with it if only a little over, just if something happened and insurance. . .


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## Aswayze

You should probably fill everyone in on what the reason/rationale for wanting a trailerable "blue water" boat is to perhaps get more specific answers. 

I own a Parker Dawson 26 which, in it's era was heralded as a trailerable blue water boat no doubt by the same marketing folks who used to like to see if Gillette Foamy was thick and rich enough to stop a locomotive. I bought it because I live inland and want a boat that I can take anywhere. If I were to set off across the Pacific or something I would probably find a bigger boat just for the space but in the mean time if I get a year or two off work I would not think a moment about sailing the Carribean or the Northwest Passage with my little monster. 

That said, don't go thinking that anything in this size range is "designed" for passage making, that's just not how the world works. Everything is a compromise and if you are looking to do something "not normal" you had best plan to modify and upgrade anything you buy.


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## dreamdoer

Westerly Nomad


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## john61ct

Rationale

I have access to a few different places to store and/or fit out the boat without charge, just cover any costs to the owner(s), but these are inland, not ocean marinas.

I have circumstances, family/health etc, that could interrupt my plans, prevent continuing sailing for perhaps years at a time, and don't want to be forced to pay ongoing slip or yard fees for the duration of such a hiatus.

If I am very far from home when duty call, increased flexibility, more choices on less expensive options than having to pay a crew to bring her home, maybe find cheap storage inland and then pick up where I left off instead when the chance arises.

I don't currently have plans to trace Magellan's paths, but I figure it would be good to have a boat that could, and would like to be able to go wherever I choose, at least not have the boat be (so much) the limiting factor. Family in Europe, Australia and southeast Asia, some would have room to park a boat if needed.

And finally, freshwater lake sailing stateside on weekends would be a nice option, even when long trips at sea are not.

And I won't be able to afford much trading up/down for these different scenarios, likely starting with somewhat a project boat, once I've made her mine want a keeper, pass on to the kids if they want her.

_____
Priorities, had no idea so many options!

I would rather have to sail more slowly

if that buys a stronger safer boat, that being a top priority

Greater warm and dry living space is a less important factor, but still more important than speed, there will be no racing

No budget other than "low, with lots of work is OK". This is a long-term work-savings project anyway, so higher price "just" means farther into the future.


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## hellosailor

john-
Good rationale, but wouldn't you still be getting into potentially expensive complications with the boat becoming subject to VAT, import duties, similar financial hits if the vessel itself was "imported" into any jurisdiction for a longer length of time?


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## Sal Paradise

Answer: No, it does not exist. Different horses for different courses.Anything big enough to go to Hawaii will be shipped by tractor trailer, as opposed to being towed by a pickup.


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## john61ct

hellosailor said:


> john-
> Good rationale, but wouldn't you still be getting into potentially expensive complications with the boat becoming subject to VAT, import duties, similar financial hits if the vessel itself was "imported" into any jurisdiction for a longer length of time?


Yes could be an issue if overseas

But maybe fact that I'm more likely to be getting it "back home" rather than "importing" over land borders may help.

Definitely something to be aware of in the event, but not big enough to change the concept.


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## Damon Gannon

Some Possibilities:

-Com-Pac 16, 19, or 23

-Many of the designs built by Westerly (W21, Warwick 21, W22, Cirrus 22, Nomad 22, Pageant 23, Kendal 23, Centaur 26). 

Most of the Westerlies are twin-keeled, which would make trailering easy; any flatbed trailer would work. The ability to "stand on its own feet" would make it easy to ground it out on a sandbar to make quick repairs, and might make any unintentional grounding less traumatic than it would be in a more traditional design. The Westerlies are strong boats with lots of interior volume.


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## Minnesail

This dude took a West Wight Potter 19 to Hawaii:

Bill Teplow's Voyage to Hawaii


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## john61ct

I'm looking for boat suggestions that were **actually designed** for blue water passage making.

Even more, that members feel were **well designed** for that, not requiring higher-level skills than usually required or great luck with the weather.

> I want to stress that I do not want this article or my generally pleasant experience in sailing Chubby to Hawaii to be construed as an endorsement for using the Potter 19 as a blue water cruiser. It was designed to be a safe and competent trailerable coastal pocket cruiser and it fulfills its stated goals admirably.


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## Minnesail

john61ct said:


> I'm looking for boat suggestions that were **actually designed** for blue water passage making.


Here you go, _Father's Day_ was designed for crossing he Atlantic. At 5' 4" it will fit neatly on a trailer.


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## john61ct

Lol


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## RegisteredUser

If you plan to pull it yourself, think about the steps in tow rigs....1/2T, 3/4T, 1T. Might be an additional cost.
'Blue Water' designed....you'll have some weight to consider.

I liked the post about Compacs and Westerlys (and there are others).
You could travel and fart around on different lakes all over many continents.
Pick the conditions...


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## john61ct

Preference when life allows would be between New England and Latin American coasts, Caribbean in between, Europe some years, maybe Pacific one day.

Only ashore for resupplying and maintenance, weeks at a time on the hook.

Inland lakes only a stopgap when circumstances lock me back to land living, maybe years at a time.


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## amwbox

john61ct said:


> I'm looking for boat suggestions that were **actually designed** for blue water passage making.


Well, the Nor'Sea 27 was I think the one most specifically designed to be a trailerable blue water boat. That boat has circumnavigated. Well, "trailerable". That's the real hurdle...the Dana 24, the Nor'Sea, the Flicka (all designed for blue water, and all extremely well proven at it)...all are trailerable...but only in the barest sense. The real challenge is finding a ramp deep enough to get them afloat.















Biggest barrier could be pucker factor.


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## Skipper Jer

I only dip our Nor'sea trailer in fresh water. We use a travel lift when sailing salt.


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## john61ct

Thanks for getting into the details!


amwbox said:


> Biggest barrier could be pucker factor.


By this you mean fear? I'm pretty brave, but it's most based on preparation, planning and practice, so I feel I know what I'm doing.

For launching, locations are going to be more well funded and planned in advance.

It's the coming ashore that is likely to be ad-hoc, in a hurry, maybe in less developed locations.

But if owning a more seaworthy boat means I need to use proper marina facilities to get it in and out of the water, so be it.

If all goes well, the "trailerable" side will rarely be used, the blue water aspect is definitely the main priority.

But I have to say fitting into a container and joining her, say in Australia or Thailand, does sound very enticing, I had a dream of doing the same with what they call a Tiny House twenty years ago.


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## Mark F. Sanderson

Although marginally trailerable, the Albin Vega can be bought on the cheap and is fine blue water sailboat. I'd certainly look it up . . .

Mark


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## Sal Paradise

With that Nor Sea 27, it's what - 12,000# plus the trailer would have to be 5,000# at least. To pull that over the road, you need a huge commercial diesel truck. So, you invest as much or more than the price of the boat- in the purchase of the truck. Up to $60,000. Does this make sense? Once launched you need a crane to lift the mast, and a crew to rig and ready the boat. It's a major undertaking. Trailer tires are expensive $200 each and you have to buy them all every few years as they dry rot. I look at these boats are " relocatable" - you can move them to a new cruising ground. Since it has it's own trailer it can be moved cheaper than other boats in the yard.It's not trailerable in the sense that you hook up the family car and head down to the lake.

All that is not to say you or anyone else shouldn't do it if it fits your agenda. But for a lot of people it's not a good way. And a lot of people would not want to take a relatively slow 27 foot boat from New England to South America.


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## Skipper Jer

Sal, as a Nor'sea 27 owner I read the above post hoping you did that with tongue in cheek. First the Nor'sea is around 8500 pounds from the factory, the trailer is around 2000 pounds. Our group on Yahoo have members reporting scale weights of around 11,500, boat trailer combo. I pull ours with a Dodge 2500 hemi powered. You don't need a "huge commercial diesel truck". Second, or is this third?, I can step and unstep the mask myself with out the use of a crane. Trailer tires are around $150 so maybe it's a wash considering taxes and mounting. Recommended replacement period is around 6 years on average.


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## amwbox

Yeah, I second that emotion. Some people from my marina here in Portland have a Nor'Sea, and they've repeatedly trailered it all the way to San Diego to launch for the Sea of Cortez. They've not needed any sort of outrageous trailer or commercial truck...they haul it with their everyday Ford pickup.

Not sure where this stuff comes from.


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## john61ct

Slow is fine, it's the journey that matters, once I'm out full-timing the whole point is no schedule, no deadlines, just enjoying life on the water and exploring, meandering at my own pace.

Yes this is a "transportable" concept, not at all looking at doing any more frequently than necessary, would prefer to be sailing it for sure.

I have three family friends with fifth-wheel rigs, one is huge for hauling stock, including a six-horse trailer, so I think I'd go that way.

I need a large heavy-duty multi-function trailer custom made for other purposes anyway, so I likely would get the "boat parts", keel and hull supports, engineered to be removable.

Yes expensive, but I think manageable overall, few more boat bucks 

And maybe I can rent or borrow a suitable truck rather than having to buy one, that **would** be wasteful to buy but only make maybe a few dozen trips per decade.

But a high-miles but sound second​-hand one is probably not so much if it comes to that.


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## Minnesail

john61ct said:


> And maybe I can rent or borrow a suitable truck rather than having to buy one, that **would** be wasteful to buy but only make maybe a few dozen trips per decade.


I don't really like driving pickups. I drove them for a college job and got it out of my system.

These days I rent a truck, it's much cheaper than owning. I can get an F150 for about $40/day or an F350 for about $60/day. I spend about $600/year on truck rentals. That would barely pay insurance and registration if were to own a truck.


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## Sal Paradise

Skipper Jer said:


> Sal, as a Nor'sea 27 owner I read the above post hoping you did that with tongue in cheek. First the Nor'sea is around 8500 pounds from the factory, the trailer is around 2000 pounds. Our group on Yahoo have members reporting scale weights of around 11,500, boat trailer combo. I pull ours with a Dodge 2500 hemi powered. You don't need a "huge commercial diesel truck". Second, or is this third?, I can step and unstep the mask myself with out the use of a crane. Trailer tires are around $150 so maybe it's a wash considering taxes and mounting. Recommended replacement period is around 6 years on average.


Ok, cool. Don't believe everything you read on the internet!


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## RegisteredUser

Skipper Jer said:


> I only dip our Nor'sea trailer in fresh water. We use a travel lift when sailing salt.


I'm curious as to what your new mode/plans are now...getting away from a bad-ass trailer boating...

I know you are way inland.


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## SHNOOL

Some of us already have the diesel truck, so the expense was already made. We already tow #16,000 regularly with it.








Also some of us are already family of needing deep water, and a crane to raise the mast...








Our "crane." A tree-limb.








You hit us at a good time, when we were hauling all those "transportable" boats.. Thats a Catalina 25... it sits about 2 feet lower on the trailer than mine 








Oh here is another truck that will tow #14000 towing a boat that sat 5 feet off the ground as well.









Fact is, you need enough depth for any of these boats, and not just at the ramp. If there is a need, you can find a way.

Obviously I am showing you "lighter" boats... But the Cat 25 is about 5000lbs for the boat. We have a guy that trailer launches his Catalina 27 fin keel too. Our lake also has a Catalina 28.


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## john61ct

Wow, thanks SO much for that little gallery, very inspiring! 

I haven't seen fifth wheel TVs for rent, so maybe best to do a regular 2" hitch, if I can't come to an arrangement with one of my friends with one.


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## Skipper Jer

RegisteredUser said:


> I'm curious as to what your new mode/plans are now...getting away from a bad-ass trailer boating...
> 
> I know you are way inland.


While we have the Nor'sea I think our next trip will be towing to Florida then sailing the Keys, and hopefully as the wife sleeps, Bahamas. Cuba was on the radar but that looks like its not going to happen any time soon. Thanks government for that. After the Nor'sea has a new care giver, a larger sailboat is on the agenda. Wife and I have a disagreement of around 5 feet. She wants something around 35 to 37 feet, I want something in the mid fortys. I think I'll try buying the larger boat using the water line length, and obscure overall length. We are not going to own two boats.


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## scotthenry

Then there is the Yankee Dolphin 24, which several have sailed & raced SF to Hawaii and back, and at least one went to the Marquesas and Tahiti and back to the US, and another went down the Pacific coast and through the Panama Canal.
24ft LOA, 7'8" beam, 2'10/5'5" Draft 4400lbs. Note, *not* full standing headroom. A little tender compared to more modern designs.
Most of them use an outboard in a lazarette well or on a transom bracket, a few have inboard engines.

See Dolphin24.org - A Website For Dolphin Owners and Others Interested in for the class info.


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## Aswayze

I guess if we are showing things on trailers, here is my Dawson (on the right) and my buddies Midships 25 (on the left) after recovering at Grand Portage following a trip to Isle Royale, across to the Apostles and back.

The Dawsons do sit fairly low on the trailer and will launch at most any ramp without drama.

I will again point out that even those boats which were marketed specifically as "blue water" in this size range should not be taken fully at face value.










Remember, life was cheap in the 1970s... Not that I do not have faith in my boat, but I would look hard at everything before I crossed the Pacific in it. (I would do the same with a Westsail 32) Don't take everything the marketing department says as fact.


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## Arcb

The more I read this, the more convinced I am that if I was in the OPs shoes I'd be looking for a Contessa 26.

They are trailerable in the same sense as the Nor Sea, but only weigh around 5400 lbs.

I can't think of any small boat with an open ocean passage making history that comes close to Contessa 26's.

Multiple Transat races and they have been selected more than once for successful solo circumnavigation records. Ironically these boats don't have enough mass to qualify for CE category A.

Plus they are cheap and there are lots of them out there.


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## SHNOOL

You know there is always this:
26 foot seaward... not sure it qualifies as "Blue Water" Electric lifting keel... 









If you want really NICE accomodations.. then how about the Seaward 32rk? Also electric raising keel. Much better for bigger water.


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## dreamdoer

*Doing it now on a weekly basis*

I shared the ops dream and made it a reality. It wasn't easy and there were many trials and errors, but this past sailing season i ramp launched and retrieved nearly every week. My nomad is a proven blue water boat that has the interior room of many 26 foot boats. My boat was sailed by the previous owner to bermuda.

It has a very sea kindly motion and because of it's bilge keels and skeg sits upright when aground or "atrailer". It weighs 3,150 pounds and has 2' 3" of draft. Do i plan on sailing across the pond? Nope. Have others done it on this boat? Yup. I do plan on sailing the keys and the bahamas to escape the northeast winters. I also plan on sailing large inland waters and transiting the erie canal.

The key is to find a seaworthy boat with minimal draft and adequate interior room (which can only be defined by the individual). Sure you can trailer and possibly ramp launch larger, deeper draft boats, but it isn't easy and if you don't have grey hairs now, you will have soon. To buy and outfit a sailboat that is capable of blue water passages in relative comfort and with a high degree of safety, that is easy to trailer, rig(mast raising included) ramp launch and ramp retrieve is very difficult, but not impossible.

If you can't rig and launch and retrieve with enough ease that you don't dread the experience, the dream is doomed. I can launch and retrieve as easily as the larger power boats. I can retrieve at dead low tide when the power boats cannot.

I am excited that i am living the dream the op seeks. It hasn't been easy, but it has most definitely been worth it. I have found the sense of freedom that i dreamed sailing would afford me and i feel the op seeks. No limits!


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## Sal Paradise

Wow!!

$198K. But the max width for a trailer here in NY is 8'-6" (my Catalina 22 is only a foot narrower than that) so you would have to get a special permit.










2018 Seaward 32RK Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## hellosailor

"You don't need a "huge commercial diesel truck"."
When in doubt, follow the manufacturer's specifications, there are usually good reasons for them. One day a big pickup towing a big go-fast boat flies by me in the express lane, up a ramp and off to the express flyover. Couple of minutes later, the whole interstate comes to a stop, then slowly, we all pick our way through a debris field, with a truck's rear bumper in the center lane, and most of the truck and boat down the shoulder.
The fellow had been flying, probably around 80-85, up and over and when the flyover came back in...too much load, too much speed, he literally tore the back of the truck off. Trailers usually have lower speed limits, to prevent the wheel bearings from overheating and seizing, as well as the effects of speed and load on the suspension, the vehicle structure, all that good stuff. Most casual owners just aren't aware, they really can tear it apart.


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## john61ct

Sal Paradise said:


> But the max width for a trailer here in NY is 8'-6" (my Catalina 22 is only a foot narrower than that) so you would have to get a special permit.


Which therefore does not meet my stated requirements.

Could posters please start their own thread if the want to discuss such boats, no matter how interesting?

Less living space, slow vs fast, safety at sea, all these are grey areas

But an 8'6" beam is a hard objective limit.

Thanks


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## Minnesail

john61ct said:


> Could posters please start their own thread if the want to discuss such boats, no matter how interesting?


Snippy!



john61ct said:


> But an 8'6" beam is a hard objective limit.


You really might be limiting yourself there. In most states for loads that are modestly over the limit you just need a permit which you get by calling or writing, no hassle at all. You don't need chase cars or any of that jazz until you're WAY over the width limit.


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## john61ct

Yes that is the limit, I am happy to set for myself.

I am amazed at the plethora of wonderful choices that limitation already allows.

Too many choices is as bad as not enough.

Right now the Norsea 27 is invading my dreams.

Only downside AFAIC so far is cost, but that just means I need to earn more, work longer and/or spend less on other stuff.


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## john61ct

Sorry to anyone thinking my tone "snippy"; I did say Please, and consider my request reasonable.

It's both free and easy to start new threads.

And too easy for threads to drift off-topic and become less valuable.


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## SHNOOL

There are those of us who have trailered over that 9' limit (a lot)... In fact the J24 is over that limit, as are a lot of other "trailerable" boats.

So 8'6" is a reasonable limit and I'm willing to understand it... 

but understand that permits to tow up to 11 feet wide are reasonably purchaseable... for less than you likely pay for your 4 wheeler to cross the boarders of most states on a toll road.

Snippy or not matters not to me.. You asked for blue water and trailerable. A comment was made that the Nor Sea was not "trailerable" but transportable. I wanted to find something more "truly" trailerable. Can't help it I broke one rule to fix another.. That is the nature of trailerables.


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## Aswayze

I think his width is pretty reasonable. 

Regardless of permitting, it is MUCH more stressful to tow a wider load not everyone enjoys 18 hour white knuckle drives. 

I generally tow my boat about 2x a year and by virtue of the fact I live far from where I am towing to it's always a long drive. My Dawson actually tows pretty well but even that adds a level of stress to ones vacation that not everyone enjoys. 

I looked at a lot of boats before I settled on the one I did and it was largely the fact I could trailer it fairly easily and launch it at more remote locations that led me to choose the one I wanted. It then only took me about 4 years to actually find one but that's another story...


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## RegisteredUser

https://maine.craigslist.org/boa/d/contessa-26/6353726691.html


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## Aswayze

Good find that is a cool looking critter!


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## Daveinet

RegisteredUser said:


> https://maine.craigslist.org/boa/d/contessa-26/6353726691.html


"I am asking $25,000 USD firm" but yet listed for 22500. Gotta love it.

4 ft draft. I would considerate much easier to gain permits for transporting a <10ft wide boat, than launching a boat with a 4 ft draft.


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## hellosailor

Dave-
J/24's are commonly trailered, and their 4'+ draft doesn't seem to stop anyone.
Oversize permits require paperwork and expense. In some places they'll require lead and follow-me cars, sometimes restrict you to night hours. In general, life becomes harder once you hit 8.501 feet wide. The OP may just not want all that agita.


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## john61ct

hellosailor said:


> The OP may just not want all that agita.


No "may" about it, call it 8.599" beam, that part is a non-negotiable hard limit, no boats over that here please

in priority order

1. Trailer towable, beam 8'6" or less, retrieving/launching, raising/lowering mast as low tech DIY as possible. Containerized even better.

2. Strong and safe "bones", as bulletproof as possible, longevity, capable of fitting out for blue water

3. Living space, comfort, storage

4. Speed

I realize 3 & 4 are important, just that I'm not willing to sacrifice much of any higher priority in order to gain a little of a lower one. If a little less robust gets a **lot** more space or speed, yes worth discussing.

But fast boats not strong, or lots of space but beam at 2.6+m, please just refrain, sorry to be such a control freak

but wading through the data on those suggested so far is already a lot 

Bargain examples like that Contessa is very inspiring to see, thanks again to all contributors for the info so far!


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## john61ct

Daveinet said:


> 4 ft draft. I would considerate much easier to gain permits for transporting an under 10ft wide boat, than launching a boat with a 4 ft draft.


Note using a less-than sign caused all that last part to not be displayed in my browser.

At this point I don't know enough to address that issue, but have come across a few comments about beaching twin or "bilge keel" boats.

Would be great besides easy launching to be able to clean the bottom and inspect through-hulls without a haul-out.


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## zedboy

john61ct said:


> Right now the Norsea 27 is invading my dreams.
> 
> Only downside AFAIC so far is cost, but that just means I need to earn more, work longer and/or spend less on other stuff.


The Norsea is about as light as I'd want for sailing in bigger sloppier stuff (about 350 kilo lighter than my 31'), but I have a heck of a lot more interior and storage space. And it's already big and heavy enough that I find it hard to believe you would really get "weekend" use out of it near home.

Given the expense, may be cheaper to buy a bigger, wider, cheaper boat, pay for hauling home for kitting out and back when ready, and then keep it somewhere cheap near the wet stuff. You could spend a long time on the hard in a lot of places for the difference between what you're looking at spending and what I spent (about $15k).

And I have a head with a closing door.


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## hellosailor

Sal-
The towing package and ratings aren't just about the engine. Manufacturers consider (and often change parts and programming) the suspension, the alternator, the engine cooling systems, the transmission and transmission cooling, as a bare minimum to determine a towing capacity rating. ABS and ESC systems may also be programmed differently. Sometimes that information makes it into the handouts, but usually someone needs to dig with the manufacturer to find out all the changes involved.
Could be that when they switch to a turbo engine, the engine controls and the cooling system controls also are different, and more capable of handling the loads. And of course, if you exceed the maker's recommendations and something does happen, like a crash, the insurer may walk away from the incident.
Been a long time since we could just clamp on a bumper hitch at U-Haul.


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## john61ct

zedboy said:


> The Norsea is about as light as I'd want for sailing in bigger sloppier stuff (about 350 kilo lighter than my 31'), but I have a heck of a lot more interior and storage space. And it's already big and heavy enough that I find it hard to believe you would really get "weekend" use out of it near home.
> 
> Given the expense, may be cheaper to buy a bigger, wider, cheaper boat, pay for hauling home for kitting out and back when ready, and then keep it somewhere cheap near the wet stuff. You could spend a long time on the hard in a lot of places for the difference between what you're looking at spending and what I spent (about $15k).
> 
> And I have a head with a closing door.


Things like that last is of zero concern to me.

Of course your Dolphin has more space with a 10' beam, I was clear that's not an option here.

I never imagined trailering for weekends, just meant the ability to sail on lakes when forced to live inland, the boat would mostly stay in the water those years.

And the purchase cost side of the equation will be a much later consideration, only after I've narrowed the list.

I did use the word dream there intentionally.


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## zedboy

john61ct said:


> Right now the Norsea 27 is invading my dreams.
> 
> Only downside AFAIC so far is cost, but that just means I need to earn more, work longer and/or spend less on other stuff.





john61ct said:


> I did use the word dream there intentionally.


Yup. 100% saw that. 100% don't get it :smile


----------



## john61ct

I won't say "I can't afford it", but it will mean a longer delay working hard living lean saving up to spend that much.

But spending more on the boat++ and less on annual running costs, especially those years it won't be my home, is a key part of the plan.


----------



## zedboy

john61ct said:


> I won't say "I can't afford it", but it will mean a longer delay working hard living lean saving up to spend that much.
> 
> But spending more on the boat++ and less on annual running costs, especially those years it won't be my home, is a key part of the plan.


I guess that's the question, and the answer depends on the real numbers: spend more up front and get less boat, in order to save later on. If it's not a lot more up front, and not a lot less boat, and the savings in running costs are really significant...

In your shoes, I would spend peanuts on something little to sail for the short term locally, and only buy the big boat when ready to set off. I don't think a solid boat should take more than a few months to make ready for passages. And I suspect Baja is the cheap place to park a boat on the hard should you need to take a dirt break.


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## Arcb

John, your philosophy sounds nearly identical to mine when I bought my last boat and I pretty well agree with every thing you say, except that I have no interest what so ever in Trans-Oceanic or Blue water. I can take a plane and load my little boat on a ship, train or its trailer if I want to go to a far away place.

I got tons of great advice from a lot of posters on this thread http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruis...273618-trailer-sailors-standing-headroom.html when I was shopping for my current boat, much of it from the same posters as have posted on this thread.

I agree if you are going to buy a trailer sailor, buy one that can be legally trailered. I am taking my boat from Ontario to Florida this winter, that's two countries, one province and 7 states worth of bureaucracy to deal with. No thanks.

Simplicity is key to keeping price down. Maintaining boat systems is both costly and time consuming.

Beaching is sweet. Really sweet, anchorers have no idea what they are missing out on. Even a 40 foot boat is only 40 feet on the hook. But a 20 foot boat on the beach has virtually unlimited space, as long as there is a dry bed in the boat, you can do every thing else on the beach. We even pitch a tent as often as not for extra space (we are 3 plus a dog on a 21 foot boat, and occasionally joined by one grandmother or the other).

If you want to beach, I think most of the boats mentioned are up to the task, but my understanding is the westerlies mentioned were designed with frequent beaching specifically in mind.

Here is another very stout boat that is easy to trailer. I don't know if you would want to take one to Hawaii, but I know they have been cruised in the North Sea, Baltic Sea, Caribbean Sea, Great Lakes etc.

Nordica-20

You could also consider a Bayfield 23 Edit: Technically called a Bayfield 25, they are a pretty big boat on a trailer, but meet your beam criteria.


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## colemj

Arcb said:


> Beaching is sweet. Really sweet, anchorers have no idea what they are missing out on. Even a 40 foot boat is only 40 feet on the hook. But a 20 foot boat on the beach has virtually unlimited space, as long as there is a dry bed in the boat, you can do every thing else on the beach. We even pitch a tent as often as not for extra space (we are 3 plus a dog on a 21 foot boat, and occasionally joined by one grandmother or the other).


Where we cruise, getting as far away from a beach as possible at sundown is imperative. Often even during the day if no breeze.

No see ums and the like will eat you alive.

Mark


----------



## Arcb

For sure Mark, black flies and killer mosquitoes around here. We have bug screens in the boom tent, and for the opening ports. You can get big bug screen gazeboes to set up on the beach over your picnic table that also have lids to keep the rain off.


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## colemj

Arcb said:


> For sure Mark, black flies and killer mosquitoes around here. We have bug screens in the boom tent, and for the opening ports. You can get big bug screen gazeboes to set up on the beach over your picnic table that also have lids to keep the rain off.


We laugh at mosquitos. Since I'm from the North, black flies still elicit a panic in me. Michele has never seen one and cannot understand why I talk about them with such fear.

However, both can be mitigated with screens and even bug spray.

The tropical noseeums go through bug screens like they are giant weaves (which they are to them). To get a screen small enough, you might as well have solid material.

And they come up from the ground, so you better have a sealed ground surface.

Their bites are like black flies - instant and bloody (although smaller amounts of blood, but many bite at once). And you never see them do it, or even see them on you.

Mark


----------



## outbound

If he?s only rarely going to trailer and wants a brick outhouse 
Victoria 28
Or
BCC 28
Or
Morris Annie

All are cult boats so if he changes his mind he won?t take a bath selling


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## Daveinet

If you are just looking for a monster that is trailerable, you can always get a MEGA 30. I've heard of guys having these out in 40 knots plus under full sails and state that at no time did the boat feel out of control. Plenty of standing room.


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## john61ct

Great stuff guys, thanks!

Yes brick sh!thouse, sturdy build quality is the key.

I'm realizing from the "bluewater" discussion that just means a solid platform to build on, a lot more buildout is required, and my building up skills and experience over time the really critical part before even thinking long passages.

But getting very intimate with that one boat's qualities over time is I think better than chopping and changing.


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## colemj

Surprised this hasn't come up yet: Interesting Sailboats: SVEN YRVIND CIRCUMNAVIGATION ON A 3m SAILBOAT

Mark


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## john61ct

No, could be a real derail, I prefer to keep the thread on track with useful information and discussion. 

Production boats, relatively mainstream, that don't require extraordinary skills or bravery/death wish to take far from shore.


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## zedboy

john61ct said:


> Production boats, relatively mainstream, that don't require extraordinary skills or bravery/death wish to take far from shore.


So further on that note: mentioned before, but I don't know if you you really considered the Albin Vega 27. There was a member on here who took one all over the Pacific - HI, AK, everywhere. I think it's also what Matt Rutherford sailed through the NW passage and around the Horn.

Should be a heck of a lot cheapter than a Norsea.


----------



## john61ct

Thanks so much for the reminder.

No I haven't taken the time to cross-reference and compare candidates yet, I'm a long way off from even starting to consider thinking about actually looking yet, no rush.

But greatly appreciate any bumps to help keep the dream alive!


----------



## john61ct

Just offhand, are any of these relevant?

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304498


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## zedboy

john61ct said:


> No I haven't taken the time to cross-reference and compare candidates yet, I'm a long way off from even starting to consider thinking about actually looking yet, no rush.


Will admit to not getting it.

This is the only life you get. Why waste it not chilling on your boat? Don't dream of far-off maybes on the interwebs. If you're stuck inland, buy a cheapie trailer-sailer and go conquer your local puddle.

Be in a rush!

:smile

(didn't make it to the boat last weekend, will have to fix that ... I think I have a date with my prop and a scraper....)


----------



## john61ct

In a word:

Money

And more, being primary caregiver responsible for many, both very young and several getting frail elderly.

Hence my needing to be ready to pull everything ashore, interrupting the "my ideal life" plan for maybe years at a time, even after the young ones are older ready to be more independent.

Unfortunately it takes a village but for now there's just me + a passel of dependents.


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## zedboy

john61ct said:


> Money
> 
> And more, being primary caregiver responsible for many, both very young and several getting frail elderly.


Right on. Real life.

I bought my first boat for $500. Sold it for $1k. Wouldnt've sold it except a friend gave me a lighter, newer, plastic-er boat to use for free.

No galley. No head. No standing. Kids loved it.


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## SHNOOL

Logic... Yep, now, free or cheap... trailerable fast, fun, and drag the kids. Screw bluewater cruising dead wait for now.


----------



## Arcb

If you own a spare parking spot, it costs almost nothing to own a trailer sailor. If you don't it's a bit more expensive to pay for dry storage on a trailer, but still pretty cheap.

I did a Google search of trailer sailors for sale in my area for under $1000 and got 60 hits. Of those, about a half dozen had decent looking trailers, gear, sails and little cabins you can sleep in.

No need for blue water to go sailing, go camping and get away from it all for a couple hours, a couple of days or a couple of weeks.

If really short on $$$, you can get a car toppable sailboat for about $200, which you could quite enjoy sailing and take on multi day camp cruising trips.

Sailing does not need to be an expensive or time consuming hobby, some folks just chose to make it that way.


----------



## Donna_F

This topic has come up before. At the bottom of each thread there are always a list of similar threads. This one is down there now:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...1798-best-trailerable-blue-water-cruiser.html

If you put the keywords in the search box in the upper right corner (or use Google), you will come up with other threads on the topic. And more people wondering why anyone would want a trailerable "blue water" boat.


----------



## Skipper Jer

Donna_F said:


> This topic has come up before. At the bottom of each thread there are always a list of similar threads. This one is down there now:
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...1798-best-trailerable-blue-water-cruiser.html
> 
> If you put the keywords in the search box in the upper right corner (or use Google), you will come up with other threads on the topic. *And more people wondering why anyone would want a trailerable "blue water" boat.*


The reasons we own a "trailerable "blue water" boat" are:
1. We can be sailing the east coast one weekend, a week later the Gulf, the Pacific a week later and Puget Sound a week later. 55 mph to weather.
2. When not using the boat she sits in the driveway and the storage fees are ZERO.


----------



## john61ct

Wanted to add Twister 28

TWISTER 28 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Not sure about the living comfort side but 8' beam and sure sound tough.


----------



## RegisteredUser

sa/d = 12
10k lb boat
5' draft


----------



## zedboy

Truth is, if you're already considering a production 28' British boat with 5' draft that will be hard to find in the US ... why wouldn't you just buy yourself a Triton 28? Very similar dimensions and displacement (8.25' beam). Cheap'n'cheerful. Only draws a drop more than the Nor'sea - 4'.


----------



## RegisteredUser

If you're going to be globetrotting, maybe look at something like a Westerly Centaur on a trailer in Europe....parked in a friend's yard. Maybe $15kish

Then something else for the US.


----------



## Arcb

John, that boat looks like a serious handful to trailer. 5 foot draft and 10k pounds, yipes. Sailing to windward will be a chore, which means a lot more motoring if you are in anything but wide open water or trades. I have never heard of one, which is fine, except they might be a bit hard to find without a flight to the UK, where there must be a decent number still sailing.

R.U. makes a good point with the Westerly Centaur. Also a slower older British boat, but lots have made it across the pond to the Americas, so you can find one, and you can load them on a flat bed trailer. Which is kind of sweet, because you don't need a custom trailer wherever you go.

CENTAUR 26 (WESTERLY) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


----------



## john61ct

RegisteredUser said:


> sa/d = 12
> 10k lb boat
> 5' draft


The first I have no idea.

The last two I get, are you saying heavier and deeper than you would prefer?

I'm currently just compiling the list, not yet started figuring out how to compare, what to look for other than the 8.5" max beam and generalities like "built strong, safe and forgiving for ocean passages"


----------



## Arcb

Sa d is the ratio of sail area to displacement. It influences how well a boat performs in light wind, and to a degree upwind.

12 is really low. 16 is conservative. 20 is getting into quick. 12 really is a slow boat though. Trailer sailors are often a bit on the high side, because light weight helps a boats trailerability. My Cruising trailer Sailor is about 31, and my Racing Trailer Sailor is around 67.

Any way, 12 is pretty low for a trailer sailor.


----------



## john61ct

Arcb said:


> John, that boat looks like a serious handful to trailer. 5 foot draft and 10k pounds, yipes. Sailing to windward will be a chore, which means a lot more motoring if you are in anything but wide open water or trades.


Yes I see what you mean about the weight issue.

wrt keels, and the Centaur, I love the twin keel (bilge keel? ) concept for exploring wild shorelines, maybe even getting up rivers, also cheap maintenance and easy beaching out in the middle of nowhere.

But is that design less "safe and robust" for deep-ocean passagemaking?

Remember, besides the 8.5" beam limitation, I don't actually plan on trailering as a normal routine, that might only happen 3-4 times in 2-3 decades.

So I don't want that aspect to really dictate too much, building a stronger trailer or paying a bit more for the tow cause it needs a bigger truck, just not that critical compared to seaworthy strength and safety.


----------



## john61ct

RegisteredUser said:


> Then something else for the US.


I'm definitely planning on globetrotting, that was made clear from the start.

But I have no idea how more than one boat would work. The one I buy will become my only home.

Where I buy it to start sailing doesn't really matter, I've only lived stateside for about 10% of my adult life so far.

So if the boat I think is right is much more available, therefore much better priced, in Europe or even New Zealand, then likely it's worth the trip to go shopping there when I'm ready to start.


----------



## john61ct

Arcb said:


> Sa d is the ratio of sail area to displacement. It influences how well a boat performs in light wind, and to a degree upwind.
> 
> 12 is really low. 16 is conservative. 20 is getting into quick. 12 really is a slow boat though. Trailer sailors are often a bit on the high side, because light weight helps a boats trailerability. My Cruising trailer Sailor is about 31, and my Racing Trailer Sailor is around 67.
> 
> Any way, 12 is pretty low for a trailer sailor.


Thanks very much for that, makes sense.

Also, that term "trailer sailor", usually is in opposition to a liveaboard bluewater capable boat?

Implies coastal, short-term recreation, correct?

Or would a Nor'sea owner call it a trailer sailor?


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## Arcb

I think a well maintained Centaur is definitely a strong vessel. Stability is very complicated a very complicated issue though, because a vessels righting ability, initial stability, comfort, resistance to capsize, height and angle of downflooding are all competing issues (likely missing a bunch too). However, folks have and do make long ocean voyages in these boats.


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## john61ct

Sounds good. 

Hitting an outcrop or submerged container is also something I'm wary of.


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## fallard

john61ct said:


> Remember, besides the 8.5" beam limitation, I don't actually plan on trailering as a normal routine, that might only happen 3-4 times in 2-3 decades.


Why not skip your own trailer/tow vehicle and get a more comfortable size boat that you could pay to have trucked when needed? There are enough boat delivery services that you shouldn't have a problem having it put on a hydraulic trailer and moved wherever you want. This approach may be more cost-effective in the long run, unless you want to store your boat on a trailer. Even then, you might go as large as you want and pay for a tow when needed.


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## john61ct

Yes, those details will get worked out after the target boat(s) are selected. 

I'm leaning toward my own trailer, make it modular as I have other uses. 

But hiring the TV maybe the driver seems pretty sensible.


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## zedboy

john61ct said:


> Also, that term "trailer sailor", usually is in opposition to a liveaboard bluewater capable boat?
> 
> Implies coastal, short-term recreation, correct?
> 
> Or would a Nor'sea owner call it a trailer sailor?


Arcb's using "trailer sailor" like you think - definitely not blue water. Not at all like a Nor'sea, which would better be described as a boat you could legally fit on a trailer.

For your purposes, the relevant numbers are all under 20 or so. But 12 is still motor-sailor range. I think the Brits have lots of wind and design boats with low sail area (some Westerlys as low as 12, tho Centaur is in the 15s...Primrose Moodys in the 13s). As I mentioned, the Triton 28 is a comparable US-built design and has an SA/D over 16.


----------



## john61ct

And is increasing the ratio as Don mentioned a huge complex undertaking?


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## RegisteredUser

john61ct said:


> And is increasing the ratio as Don mentioned a huge complex undertaking?


Are you being serious or just farting around?


----------



## john61ct

I am asking the question sincerely and apologize for being so ignorant, if that is what you mean. 

Should I interpret your response to mean "yes, increasing that ratio is usually too costly to be worth considering" ?


----------



## Arcb

Cost is a factor, but complexity is a big part of it. A yacht designers went to considerable effort to design the rig to be well balanced and structurally sound. Everything you alter is going to impact something else. Lengthen the boom, you move the centre of effort aft, lengthen the mast, you move the centre of effort up, etc.

However, if you buy a boat with a bit of extra sail area, reducing sail is a simple matter of reefing.

There are things you can do, like ad a code zero or drifter or something, if you're okay with the extra expense and effort of carrying and swapping out additional sales.

Think of a sailboat like a car and the sails like the engine. You don't need a race car, but it's nice to be able to cruise on the freeway at 10 over and still have enough reserve power to pass. The slower boats will of course still sail and get you to wear you're going, but it might be more like driving on a county road than the freeway. It might ad several days to your trip on a longer passage, and it might actually mean you just decide to motor a lot more and sail a lot less.

My last boat had a SA/D of less than 13, it wasn't the end of the world, especially in open water. However, in confined waters I was forced to motor quite a bit. No big deal, she had a 50hp diesel and carried half a ton of diesel. What you don't want in my opinion is a boat that neither sails nor motors well. It should do at least one of the two well, ideally. Doing both well would be a plus.


----------



## john61ct

OK great makes sense. 

I hate burning dino juice any more than necessary. But I'm also not in a hurry when exploring, just for weather / safety reasons. 

So seems I accept the SA/D as given, and give that getting higher some weight in my priority list. Along with LWL - are their other predictors of "reasonable speed"?

And is ability to point well, also discernable from such factors? or would I need to ask for subjective opinions on each boat separately?


----------



## Fanady

John,
I was asking myself a similar question about a year ago. I'm on a tight budget so I don't want to pay slip fees. I do want to be able to coastal cruise out to Catalina island or down to Mexico from here in Long Beach, CA. I also want to be able to make it to Hawaii if I choose. I was looking at swing keels for the trailerability but then read Marchaj's book "Seaworthiness..." That convinced me squarely to only look at full keel boats with plenty of ballast to displacement ratio and other design features that favor seaworthy and seakindli-ness over speed and trailer ease. I like the Contessa 26 and Dolphin 24 noted by others but I wound up buying an old Pearson Electra fixer. Its has a 7' beam, 3' draft on the full keel and only 22.5' LOA, so I know many will dismiss it for ocean work. It does trailer easy though with just a 1500 pickup (did the Grapevine and Sepulveda pass in 100 degree heat last summer with no issues). It's not specifically designed for blue water but one guy sailed an Electra in the Transpac and it shares design features with bigger Carl Alberg boats that are blue water. I'm presently re-fitting mine with heavier duty standing rigging and other upgrades to strengthen it. Good luck and happy cruising.


----------



## john61ct

Sounds good, but so many here are saying that 3/4 of my top priorities

bluewater safety
liveaboard "comfort", incl storage space
reasonable speed

are in direct opposition to smaller size. 

So I don't think I can add "easy trailering" to the list of priorities. 

Seems I'm looking for as big LWL as possible, more like "barely trailerable", with the 8.5" beam setting an upper limit.


----------



## amwbox

Well, that's simply a matter of your personal preferences or limits. I mean, a boat that small is going to require a certain compatibility with minimalism. If you need every household creature comfort, it's hard to wedge it all into a smaller boat. Plenty of the boats mentioned are in fact perfectly safe, and very well proven...though of course you'll come across those who think anything under 50' and made of anything but steel is a certain deathtrap. That's just where _their_ limits lie. As for speed...yeah. Bigger boats tend to go faster. That's just how LWL and displacement hulls work. Physics.

Bottom line is a guy can go pretty much wherever he wants in a Nor'Sea 27. Or a Dana 24. But _should_ he? Will he be _happy_ about it? More importantly, will his wife? Entirely subjective.

Maybe you should crew on a couple of offshore deliveries or something. That's where I got my feet wet. It'll give you some information about your personal needs and wants in a boat. If the easier motion comfort and amenities of a big heavy cruiser turns out to be super important, a trailer sailer might not be the thing.


----------



## zedboy

amwbox said:


> Well, that's simply a matter of your personal preferences or limits. Bottom line is a guy can go pretty much wherever he wants in a Nor'Sea 27. Or a Dana 24.


Quite possibly true. But a Pearson Electra displaces about half what the Dana does. That will matter in both motion comfort and ability to provision.


----------



## zedboy

john61ct said:


> So seems I accept the SA/D as given, and give that getting higher some weight in my priority list. Along with LWL - are their other predictors of "reasonable speed"?


Those are the key ones.



john61ct said:


> And is ability to point well, also discernable from such factors? or would I need to ask for subjective opinions on each boat separately?


Mostly, a deep fin keel will present a more efficient foil and point better. Even among what are still sometimes called "full-keel" boats, the keel chord got shorter and the foil better defined and separate from the hull shape - to a certain degree in Alberg's designs, and to a high degree in Perry's.


----------



## john61ct

amwbox said:


> a trailer sailer might not be the thing.


Thanks, it seems that's exactly right, from my growing understanding I am eliminating those, looking for the few that fit my limitations *and* actually intended for heavy seas.

And I consider myself lucky to not be tied to a committed partner these days, have the luxury of going my own way for a while, within the constraints of other family obligations anyway.


----------



## hellosailor

john-
There were some "racing canoe" type designs. I don't remember what it was, a friend's friend was living aboard on one years ago. Something like 42'OAL and maybe 9' beam. The idea behind them was that waterline length buys speed, the boat was a repurposed ex-racer.

Still, the problem is that a longer boat becomes more expensive (marinas charging by the foot, or mooring balls limited by the foot) and like a fire truck you'd need a driver in the back to steer it on the road.(G)

This is why McLaren builds sports cars and not SUVs, and they'll tell you to just drive something else in the snow. It sounds like you are intent on "trailerable" and you think that can make it practical to move a boat all over. Personally I think that would get old fast, between constraints and logistics and dealing with different venues and all the time and money moving the boat around.

But if you want trailerable, then "liveaboard comfort" and "capacity" and everything else become secondary and you have to deal with whatever those limits will be. Don't like the limits? Then just buy the boat you want, and bus or plane tickets for yourself to move around. You can only ride two chariots at once if you're BenHur.


----------



## john61ct

Point is to get the best I can of the other variables within the 8.5" limit, that's all.


----------



## amwbox

zedboy said:


> Quite possibly true. But a Pearson Electra displaces about half what the Dana does. That will matter in both motion comfort and ability to provision.


...can't tell if you're serious.


----------



## amwbox

john61ct said:


> Thanks, it seems that's exactly right, from my growing understanding I am eliminating those, looking for the few that fit my limitations *and* actually intended for heavy seas.
> 
> And I consider myself lucky to not be tied to a committed partner these days, have the luxury of going my own way for a while, within the constraints of other family obligations anyway.


You'll actually be able to get something bigger for less money anyways. The two boats I mentioned are extremely expensive given their size. Look in the 30-35 foot range. Lots of solid boats in there, big enough for more comfort, but small enough you can avoid most of the flatly ridiculous costs of a 40+ footer.


----------



## john61ct

I think the 8.5" beam hard limit is keeping LOA to 28-29'

Mega 30 from C&C is I think so far the only exception, maybe because it has a lifting keel

There have been mentions of "canting" the boat while trailered to squeeze a little wider beam within 8.5" horizontal, but that seems above my pay grade.


----------



## SHNOOL

Lancer 28... once again.


----------



## zedboy

Fanady said:


> I do want to be able to coastal cruise out to Catalina island or down to Mexico from here in Long Beach, CA. I also want to be able to make it to Hawaii if I choose. [...] I wound up buying an old Pearson Electra





amwbox said:


> ...can't tell if you're serious.


To the degree that Fanady was serious (and I think he was). I 100% agree with you, there is a degree of, "How small are you comfortable with." But too small is too small - and that's the point I'm trying to make, don't just look at LOA, look at displacement. A Dana 24 is about the bottom end in LOA, but it displaces what a lot of 28' boats do.


----------



## hellosailor

"too small is too small"
A good reason to read "Fastnet, Force 10" among other classics. There are reasons that racing organizations all have minimum size limits, and that's got as much to do with safety at sea, as it does to do with "the RC doesn't want to be out here for three days waiting for the slow pokes".
While displacement and hull shape and so many things are all factors, the seas tend to get flatter with every extra meter of boat.


----------



## fallard

hellosailor said:


> "too small is too small"
> A good reason to read "Fastnet, Force 10" among other classics. There are reasons that racing organizations all have minimum size limits, and that's got as much to do with safety at sea, as it does to do with "the RC doesn't want to be out here for three days waiting for the slow pokes".
> While displacement and hull shape and so many things are all factors, the seas tend to get flatter with every extra meter of boat.


When you are thinking small and blue water, you might want to read "My Old Man and the Sea", by the Hays (father and son) who sailed around Cape Horn in a relatively small boat. They also talked about sailing a 22' catboat from the Bahamas to New London-admitting (between the lines) that that wasn't smart. To minimized the possibility of the large catboat cockpit from filling up and sinking the boat, they put a water bed in there and filled it with air. Just because they survived doesn't mean you should take the same chances as they did.

There are a lot of stories about small boat blue water adventures that ended well, but we also know about folks who drive their cars without using seatbelts and while distracted by their handheld electronics, without incident. But that doesn't make it smart. Better to check out the rules for ocean racing, such as the Bermuda one-two, and determine if your choice of boat would pass muster. You don't need a mega yacht: I know a fellow who did it multiple times in a Pearson 34 in conformance with the rules.


----------



## john61ct

Ericson 25?

Some sources say 8' beam, others 9'3" ???

Seaworthy?


----------



## amwbox

It's not so much about dimensions as construction strength and keel/rudder form. Though that whole debate about keel and rudder types for offshore use as opposed to coastal is a very old discussion and makes people's heads _explode_ for some reason, so proceed with caution. Ideological/dogmatic stuff there.

Any sort of prolonged offshore use is going exert tremendous wear and tear on any boat, and things are going to break routinely. Basically, you are looking for the boat equivalent of a Jeep or Land Rover, as opposed to something sporty, if that makes sense. You want rugged and reliable. And typically, boats small enough to be trailered are not that rugged. Which is why people have been giving you specific examples of small boats that are _also_ extremely well built. A Dana 24, for example, is a _tank_. An Ericson 25, while Ericson makes nice boats, simply isn't designed for the same purpose. Small, truly blue water cruisers are actually a rare animal.

More than anything, it's your skill and comfort level. I think some guy literally crossed the Atlantic last year on a stand up paddle board. So hey.

That said, if I were a beginner, (and I am, really. I've done less than 15,000 miles offshore) I'd want the factor of safety from a tough boat.


----------



## john61ct

Yes, I completely and enthusiastically agree with all that.

Actually I'm finding references to *three* different Ericson 30's, and apparently one's got a 8'6" beam and specifically for offshore passage making.

But apparently not many of that particular version were built.

I won't pursue further for now.


----------



## zedboy

john61ct said:


> Ericson 25?
> 
> Some sources say 8' beam, others 9'3" ???


The 25, and the 25+. The 25+ is a much bigger boat.


----------



## john61ct

No, specifically hearing about a 30' from the very beginning, apparently a 8'6" beam, maybe not even put into production, certainly not officially listed anywhere. 

There's a derelict one for sale a couple hours from me, I'll have a look when I get the chance.


----------



## john61ct

Any thoughts on the Mk1 1969 version of the Soverel 30 ?

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1106

Not to be confused with the 11' wide MORC version 1979


----------



## Jasburyp

Okay, pretty sure that all blue water boats are in, blue water. 

So, you want to buy a boat, that can circumnavigate, but want to tow it?

Am I missing something?

Isn't the whole premise of a blue water boats, is blue water?

This is absolutely the dumbest thing I have heard. Let's buy a blue water boat, and tow it to someplace. Instead, you can buy a non blue water boat at least half the price with twice the room, to sail in the place where blue water boats don't sail.

I am sorry, this is about the worst decision ever. There is a reason why the nor sea, flicks, Dana, Falmouth, ect, aren't found inland for sale. They are blue water boats and ahbiet smaller, do there job well.

Dumbest post ever!






Is


----------



## amwbox

^Auspicious first post.


----------



## Jasburyp

In other words, let's buy a sailboat and tow it overland.

Buy a rv!


----------



## Jasburyp

Not auspicious, just downright truth. 

Why do you buy a Bluewater boat, to tow.

You don't. You buy a production boat.

The auspicious, is that one of the most popular stickies on this site, is mine, under a different account!


----------



## amwbox

I guess I'm old school. I think people should do whatever they want with their own boats. If they want to tow their boat for whatever reason, that's their business. Pretty nice to be able to haul the boat yourself and stick it in your shop for a winter for projects or a refit, instead of getting thrashed by boatyard fees. Truth is, 99% of bluewater boats are sitting there in their slips 99% of the time. There is no requirement that they do ocean passages and nothing else.


Similarly, if someone wants to use a Jeep to drive to the grocery store instead of bash around on a trail, that's their call.


----------



## Arcb

Jasburyp said:


> Okay, pretty sure that all blue water boats are in, blue water.
> 
> So, you want to buy a boat, that can circumnavigate, but want to tow it?
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> Isn't the whole premise of a blue water boats, is blue water?
> 
> This is absolutely the dumbest thing I have heard. Let's buy a blue water boat, and tow it to someplace. Instead, you can buy a non blue water boat at least half the price with twice the room, to sail in the place where blue water boats don't sail.
> 
> I am sorry, this is about the worst decision ever. There is a reason why the nor sea, flicks, Dana, Falmouth, ect, aren't found inland for sale. They are blue water boats and ahbiet smaller, do there job well.
> 
> Dumbest post ever!
> 
> Is





Jasburyp said:


> Not auspicious, just downright truth.
> 
> Why do you buy a Bluewater boat, to tow.
> 
> You don't. You buy a production boat.
> 
> The auspicious, is that one of the most popular stickies on this site, is mine, under a different account!


I can think of lots of reasons to want a stout, sturdy trailer sailor.

Say I wanted to spend a summer sailing Hudson's Bay, or the McKenzie Delta. Most affordable way of doing that is to trailer (or train, or deck load on a ship) a small boat.

Lots of other good reasons too.


----------



## Jasburyp

Exactly my point. 99 % of the the Bluewater boats, don't see blue water. So, asking to find a Bluewater, trailerable boat, is absolutely NOT VERY SMART.


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## dreamdoer

"Not very smart" is writing a critical post using poor spelling and grammar!* I have a Westerly Nomad that I trailer and ramp launch.* She's about as blue water as you can get in a 22 foot boat.* Google search, "Lil Tiger".* Boats and set ups like this are uncommon, but not impossible.* I am researching marinas in Florida where I will keep my boat during the winter.* When I trailer her down and back, I will rest and sleep in her just like I would if I was towing an RV.* I think what I have done is very smart.* Because I can tow her anywhere, I can sail land locked inland waters and ocean waters that I would otherwise have to sail for weeks or months just to reach.* So chill out and stop being so harsh.


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## paulinnanaimo

Jasburyp

Before jumping all over other posters it could be helpful to go back in the thread to learn a bit about where the discussion is coming from. You are setting yourself up for criticism.


----------



## Jasburyp

It's not harsh, it's reality. 

You have towed your boat further than you have sailed your boat. 

So, basically, you have a boat that you tow. One I would imagine will never cross an ocean


----------



## Arcb

Jasburyp, clearly you are not into trailer sailing, dont knock it until you try it. We actually have access to places lots of bigger boats will never get to, our boats are seasonably transportable, which is pretty handy, especially in cold climates. It costs a fraction, literally a small fraction of what owning a bigger boat costs. Mooring/storing a 35 foot boat might cost you $5000/year, keeping a boat on a trailer in your yard might cost $500/year in gas and trailer maintenance. 

In terms of this thread, I think its been a great thread, the OP knew what he wanted to do, did his research and then asked for some tips on how to follow through with his plan, thats the point of these forums isnt it?

So, instead of being critical of people for being into a type of sailing you either havent tried or tried and didnt like, why dont you tell us what kind of boat you currently own and what kind of sailing you are into?


----------



## Jasburyp

It's not that I knock it. It's that I think you are better off with a boat that is designed for the parameters it is going to be used.

For boats, I started with a C&C 24, which I sailed in NH and Maine for 3 years. Sold that and bought a Tartan 27, same waters, but sailed it to NB and NS Canada. 3 years later, I sold it for a Dana 24, which I sailed in NH and Maine and a trip to Bermuda and back. Sold that and bought a Caliber 40 LRC, same waters, with a 2 year cruise to Argentina and back.
Currently, looking for a very specific Privilege Catamaran.


----------



## RegisteredUser

Jasburyp said:


> It's not that I knock it. ....


Of course not. It'd just the dumbest idea you've heard.

Did I get it right, or close?

A seaworthy boat you can land-drag from Greece to Netherlands, Key West to Vancouver, San Diego to Panama....

That's dumb....


----------



## Jasburyp

I did read the thread.

My Dana had a trailer, and I used it to store the boat. Not once did I ever think to actually use it to move it. Why, because it's not a trailer sailboat. I would probably have to spend as much time rigging and de-rigging as I would have actually on the water. This is the problem with the concept.

C&C 24 to rig, 30 minutes. 
Dana 24 to rig 1.5 hours.

Yes, it's extremely dumb, to drag a boat like a Dana 24 to key West, Greece, or anywhere to someplace different, especially in Europe. 

So, just think about this, at best, key West to Vancouver is 3500 miles at a low cost of $1.00 to $1.50 per mile. Wow, that's 3500 bucks, or more. Pretty sure I could fly, by a hunter 25, and sail it for a month for less money. And more than likely get my money back selling the hunter.

I suppose one can do it cheaper, but not by much. 

To tow a Dana 24, Bluewater boat, you are not towing it with a f150 or chevy 1500. 

Good luck, but the reality is, you don't by a Bluewater boat to tow. You buy a production boat, that fits your needs and the vehicle you have. As said before, 99 percent of the boats don't leave the Dock.






The point of a sailboat is to sail.


----------



## RegisteredUser

Jasburyp said:


> ....
> The point .....


I understand.
You have it figured out, while many other people really have not, in your opinion.


----------



## Jasburyp

Seriously, it's called a sailboat. So, you disagree with the point?

That's funny. I guess nothing has changed much since the last time I checked into a sailing forum. 

Much like the 99 percent of boats, 99 percent of forums, would rather discuss the paper facts, of what's the best boat, what's a Bluewater boat, and is there a trailer Bluewater boat. 

Unfortunately, 99 percent of the population will not take their boat anywhere. 

The point of a sailboat is to sail it. It really doesn't matter what it is. And buying something because it's a "Bluewater " boat, which most likely will never see Bluewater is a great waste of time and money. 

My C&C 24, could have gone to any place I have ever sailed. I paid 2000 USD for it. Is it a Bluewater boat, no. is it capable of sailing across a ocean, yes.

Wow, maybe instead of spending 80k, because that's the reality of a Dana 24 or Nor'Sea 27, Bristol. I suppose one can find a Falmouth or Flicka for half...but why? To tow it. 

That's the point. All are great boats. None are great trailer sailors. And for that type of money one can buy an HC33T, actually, one can buy most Bob Perry Designed boats in that Range, 

The point is, why spend 20k for a boat that will never see Bluewater? That's absolutely stupid. My Dana 24 was 82k my C&C24 was 2k, other than headroom and enclosed head, the 2k C&C was a better boat, for 80 percent of the time. 

Go to any boat launch anywhere and count the number of blue water boats being launched, off a trailer. It's next to zero.

I am sorry, but given a budget if 80k, to buy a boat, to sail down to the Sea of Cortez, I would spend half, and cruise on the other half. 

And end up in a better position than the trailer sailors hauling a Bluewater tow boat. Plus, I would have 2 years of curising, for the same money. 

Isn't that the point?


----------



## paulinnanaimo

JasburyP

It sounds as though you have the universe figured out, why are you hassling people on this thread?


----------



## Jasburyp

Maybe, because ever sailor I have met, has wanted to take off and cruise. Wether it be a week or a trip around the world. And far too often I read about the "ideal" , which only exist on the web.

No one who's gone for a cruise, had the best boat, with the latest and greatest, everyone and I mean everyone says that they wished they had done something different. But all of them, are out doing what all sailors dream of. 

I am not the master of anything, except having the balls to take a step, with the best I can afford. And at the end of the day, the sunset is exactly the same , on any boat.


----------



## Arcb

Jasburyp said:


> Dumbest post ever!





Jasburyp said:


> The auspicious, is that one of the most popular stickies on this site, is mine, under a different account!





Jasburyp said:


> So, asking to find a Bluewater, trailerable boat, is absolutely NOT VERY SMART.





Jasburyp said:


> Currently, looking for a very specific Privilege Catamaran.


Okay, dumb, not very smart. We understand how you feel about buying a blue water boat that is trailerable. You think its dumb and not very smart. Privilege Catamarans, are as their name implies, not inexpensive boats, so I am having some trouble following the money saving side of your argument?



Jasburyp said:


> The point is, why spend 20k for a boat that will never see Bluewater? That's absolutely stupid. My Dana 24 was 82k my C&C24 was 2k, other than headroom and enclosed head, the 2k C&C was a better boat, for 80 percent of the time.


As dumb and not very smart as you consider buying a trailerable blue water boat to be, that is exactly what you did. Not a $10 or $20k boat like the OP appears to be interested in, but you went out and dropped $82000 on a 24 foot trailerable BWB. Do I understand that you are trying to encourage the OP to not make the dumb, not very smart mistake that you made, or have I failed to follow your logic?

Can you direct us to the thread you made on your other account, does it go into more details about your $82000 trailerable blue water boat?


----------



## john61ct

Hi OP here. 

I don't mind the trash talk personally, but it seems from your description of your perception of my needs, 

either I didn't explain them clearly enough, 

or you didn't take the time to read some of the details later in the thread. 

However, I'm not inclined to explore those issues with you at this time. 

My rule of thumb is, if a thread is not of personal interest to me, I just ignore it. 

Feel free to do the same. 

And thanks for the input.


----------



## john61ct

Potential addition to the list, feedback please? 

Chris-Craft Capri 26


----------



## dreamdoer

Draft is too deep to make trailering practical without a commercial trailer. Any sailboat can be trailered, but with a draft this deep it would be a tall load. My boat has 2 foot 3 inches of draft and bilge keels so it is very stable. From my experience, that is about the limit that is practicable.


----------



## SeaStar58

The 3,920 lb 26-1 or the 4,800 lb 26-2?

Can be very nice for a 50+ year old boat but may need 50+ year old boat care. 4 foot fixed keel draft with skeg rudder is a bit tall for trailering.

Has outboard motor well taking interior space up but making the motor somewhat more protected.










This one named POCO is a 26-2 and appears to be well cared for:


----------



## john61ct

dreamdoer said:


> Draft is too deep to make trailering practical without a commercial trailer. Any sailboat can be trailered, but with a draft this deep it would be a tall load. My boat has 2 foot 3 inches of draft and bilge keels so it is very stable. From my experience, that is about the limit that is practicable.


Earlier in the thread plenty of 4-5' draft boats being self-transported. Not looking at regular trailering, in fact likely doing so less than once a year on average, maybe a lot less if things work out well on the family front.

I do like the Westerly style twin/bilge keel idea, especially remote island beaching! But they're pretty thin on the ground in NA.


----------



## john61ct

SeaStar58 said:


> The 3,920 lb 26-1 or the 4,800 lb 26-2?
> 
> Can be very nice for a 50+ year old boat but may need 50+ year old boat care. 4 foot fixed keel draft with skeg rudder is a bit tall for trailering.
> 
> Has outboard motor well taking interior space up but making the motor somewhat more protected.


Yes, all the ones that fit my criteria seem to be that old, but in fact from the early days of fiberglass seem more solid than later. Can't afford new shiny anyway, don't mind a project within reason.

And I actually like the outboard propulsion, Atom style, the original design having a well already is a big plus!


----------



## john61ct

Whoops I found the -2 the one I came across is after 1967 so maybe that is one, no record how many made. 

If that extra weight is keel / ballast, presumably adds to stability for heavy seas offshore? 

Nor'sea is over 5k# . . .


----------



## jephotog

I wanted a Dolphin 24 when I was looking for the same requirements. I also considered an Albin Vega 27, both capable and meet your requirements.

I think you are looking for a Unicorn though, an easily trailered boat that can take you anywhere in the world? A true bluewater cruiser is a different beast than a coastal cruiser in terms of details and soundness. So even if you find the perfect little pocket cruiser there might be a lot of work getting ready for an Ocean Crossing. The really nice trailerable blue water boats are not cheap. You could buy a world cruise ready Westsail 32 for close to half the price of a Dana 24, there's at least a decade of slip fees difference between the two prices. The rationale of a trailerable boat goes out the window when you plan on sailing it across the ocean and leaving it there to return home, a trailer in Canada does no good when the boat is in Hawaii or further.

I am a similar situation to you in terms of a long way from the Ocean. I have a capable little trailerable boat, but would really like to also have a boat in the water. I find I spend more time sailing when my boat is already splashed, or even enjoy a day at the docks working on the boat. It is also a nice vacation home, for a fraction of the cost of a beachfront condo.


----------



## john61ct

Yes inherent conflict means balancing priorities and compromise.

"Easy" trailering is not the goal, I'm either stuck on land or living at sea, and the transition splashing/recoveries will be hopefully very infrequent. 

Eliminating slip fees and boat yard storage when upfitting or stuck on land is the important factor, may be years at a time. 

Thanks for the Dolphin reference, they look like little sister to Tartan, probably a bit **too** tight for fulltime camping. 

Yes Albin Vega's high up on the list.


----------



## Arcb

John,

Theres a current discussion over on wooden boat right from a guy looking for an offshore capable trailer boat. I think he wants to do East Coast of Australia to Tasmania or something. Its not a bad read.

An offshore capable trailer boat ?


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## jephotog

Obviously cost is an object but if you can afford to sink $3-5k, why not get a lesser boat for now? Since you are asking a lot from a trailerable boat it might be hard to find and need some work. 

A tanzer 22 or something similar would get you sailing this summer while you are searching for that perfect pocket cruiser. If you buy a well priced nice little boat you can get most of your money back when you find your world cruiser.


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## jephotog

Scott's Boat Pages: Montgomery 17 Trailer Sailor Crosses the Pacific

The montgomery website had details of the building of this boat at one time. I imagine the cost of the custom layup would put the price up close to a used 30+ foot bluewater boat, but I still think it is pretty cool.


----------



## SeaStar58

john61ct said:


> Whoops I found the -2 the one I came across is after 1967 so maybe that is one, no record how many made.
> 
> If that extra weight is keel / ballast, presumably adds to stability for heavy seas offshore?
> 
> Nor'sea is over 5k# . . .


Seems odd that the heavier one has 70 lbs less ballast yet all dimensions appear to be the same. There is a footnote mentioning a number of changes in the configuration of the keel and rudder over the 3 years they were built.


----------



## john61ct

jephotog said:


> why not get a lesser boat for now?


My current situation won't allow much if any sailing, and every available boat buck and free day should IMO go into what I'm actually shooting for.

Right now I'm just clarifying my goals, getting a very specific list of target boats together, getting a feel for the market, maybe driving to look at a few, learning about the buying process and surveying etc.

Actual shopping looks to be at least 3-4 years away, and that's optimistic.

But as soon as I get the trailer sorted, I will be open to early miracles.


----------



## jephotog

john61ct;2051447578
Right now I'm just clarifying my goals said:


> I was in the same position 17 years ago. I had money in the bank, and almost bought an Albin Vega then blew the money on an education and career.:crying


----------



## john61ct

Skipper Jer said:


> The reasons we own a "trailerable "blue water" boat" are:
> 1. We can be sailing the east coast one weekend, a week later the Gulf, the Pacific a week later and Puget Sound a week later. 55 mph to weather.
> 2. When not using the boat she sits in the driveway and the storage fees are ZERO.





Skipper Jer said:


> While we have the Nor'sea I think our next trip will be towing to Florida then sailing the Keys, and hopefully as the wife sleeps, Bahamas. Cuba was on the radar but that looks like its not going to happen any time soon. Thanks government for that. After the Nor'sea has a new care giver, a larger sailboat is on the agenda.


So nice to make the connection to your Nor'sea 27 for sale ad.

If wishes were fishes we'd all eat cheval, sumpin' like that!


----------



## john61ct

All the incredible bargains I'm finding makes me realize it's worth building the trailer first.

Something like

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=673517

but fewer axles, figure 2x 7000# would cover it,

and hopefully **way** under a ton curb weight.

Any suggestions for a reasonable priced engineer, ideally with lots or trailer experience, to help spec'ing the frame tubing dimensions?

May go with aluminum. . .

And maybe a fabricator willing to do a custom job, ideally east of the Mississippi?


----------



## Arcb

I wonder if you should add Stonehorse 26 to your list of potential boats?

STONE HORSE 26 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


----------



## SHNOOL

triad and loadmaster have perfected water launch larger trailerables.
Why (again) are we reinventing the wheel?


----------



## john61ct

Arcb said:


> I wonder if you should add Stonehorse 26 to your list of potential boats?
> 
> STONE HORSE 26 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


Interesting, thanks!

But the internal live aboard space, tankage other storage capacity looks minimal compared to those closer to 27' LWL.

And seems very hard to find for cheap in glass, many are wood NG for me.


----------



## john61ct

SailingUphill said:


> triad and loadmaster have perfected water launch larger trailerables.


Thanks, both of those do custom work!

If course if I find one secondhand cheap enough capable of carrying 10+K loads, I'd snap it up.

But I'd otherwise prefer a custom trailer design for other use cases.

Low-COG drop-floor in the center with storage boxes around the lower outside, high clearance and rugged suspension for rough even off-road conditions.

Also useful for vehicle transport,

a "land yacht" living pod slides right on,

will both carry an empty 20' conex and also fit inside one.

Converts to a full-width deck-over flat bed, utility bulk hauling, maybe even fit out to carry a water tank and bulk propane.

Does that cover your Why question?

And where else have I previously re-invented the wheel?


----------



## SHNOOL

john61ct said:


> And where else have I previously re-invented the wheel?


I am referencing the trailerable blue water, and finding a trailer, not specifically you. Search function works well.

For yourself, I gave you the 2 most obvious builders of brand new heavy duty trailer launchable sailboat trailer builders. Loadmaster generally comes in about 5% cheaper than Triad on pricing. Triad is the "deluxe" trailer (in my opinion). They both have extensive experience in making trailer like you are looking for.

now as far as used sailboat trailers. They exist in this size for sure, but are rare, and less than nil when it comes to trailer launchables. Almost all are transport service trailers (adjustable which is nice)... in some cases you can find gooseneck transport trailers.

These guys have a lot of in stock trailers (refurb and new)... but are in Texas. Trailers - Custom Sailboat Trailers


----------



## Nautitime

Consider a fifth wheel. We haul our Newport 27 on a slightly modified 5th wheel camper frame that works well. We can't launch directly from it, but the travel lift has no issues lifting it off and dropping it in, and we need them to step the mast anyway.


----------



## john61ct

I'm not saying I'll never use a marina, but it is essential that I am equipped to do as much as possible in primitive locations without marinas.

I've seen a German design which transport trailer carried a lighter weight trolley-cradle holding the boat, only the latter went into the water off a wire rope handled with a winch.

That might allow for a fifth wheel, but I think I'd prefer a HD-enough truck with a Class-5 hitch, able to carry other gear in the bed.


----------



## john61ct

SailingUphill said:


> the 2 most obvious builders of brand new heavy duty trailer launchable sailboat trailer builders. Loadmaster generally comes in about 5% cheaper than Triad on pricing. Triad is the "deluxe" trailer (in my opinion). They both have extensive experience in making trailer like you are looking for.
> ...
> in stock trailers (refurb and new)... but are in Texas. Trailers - Custom Sailboat Trailers


Yes very helpful, appreciate your help


----------



## SHNOOL

You mean like this?


----------



## john61ct

I guess that shallow a draft must be a swing keel or centerboard?

What boat?

Do you end up with 10% trailer weight on the tow ball? Looks a bit more balanced, Euro style.


----------



## Totuma

Sal Paradise said:


> Answer: No, it does not exist. Different horses for different courses.Anything big enough to go to Hawaii will be shipped by tractor trailer, as opposed to being towed by a pickup.


Well, a fellow made it to Hawaii in a Montgomery 15 a while back, so I'm going to respectfully disagree.

The boats mentioned - Flicka, FCutter, N'Sea, etc. all fit the bill but none of them is something you'd want to trailer to daysail. I'll also add - as someone who has owned an M15 and now owns a Flicka - that those that say it's all about compromises are dead-on. Yes a 20-26' boat CAN do it. But it'll be a lot less comfy than a 32' weighing 2x the smaller boats. Don't forget that with length, the increase in volume is non-linear. Although not straightforward, look up 'comfort ration calculator' and play with the numbers.

Case in point - Taleisin tho not quite 30', displaced IIRC nearly 18,000. The FC comes in at 22' and 8000 or so. The Flicka is 20 and 6600 depending on the build year. Which would you rather be on when the water starts frothing?

So, you just need to define your needs... cost, transportability, solo capability, comfort, safety...?


----------



## john61ct

Again, trailering will be infrequent, not looking for easy trailering, heavier the better, only hard deal breaker stat is 8.5' beam.

And already set on accepting the consequent limitations, trading off the other factors is complex enough.

There are so many good candidates, and multiple crazy bargains show up every week, so the goal at this point is narrowing down the list, fewer candidate choices the better!


----------



## colemj

john61ct said:


> What boat?


I'm guessing an S2 7.9... 

Mark


----------



## jephotog

colemj said:


> I'm guessing an S2 7.9...
> 
> Mark


Yes it is but at 9'3" it exceeds his 8.5' requirement. It did not stop me from driving cross country with it. I did not realize it exceeded requirements until the night before I left.

Now that i know I have coordinated to get permits for its next move. It can be done online the night before and runs $25-35 per state. I would not let width limit my choice on an oceanworthy boat.


----------



## Sal Paradise

Totuma said:


> Well, a fellow made it to Hawaii in a Montgomery 15 a while back, so I'm going to respectfully disagree.
> 
> The boats mentioned - Flicka, FCutter, N'Sea, etc. all fit the bill but none of them is something you'd want to trailer to daysail. I'll also add - as someone who has owned an M15 and now owns a Flicka - that those that say it's all about compromises are dead-on. Yes a 20-26' boat CAN do it. But it'll be a lot less comfy than a 32' weighing 2x the smaller boats. Don't forget that with length, the increase in volume is non-linear. Although not straightforward, look up 'comfort ration calculator' and play with the numbers.
> 
> Case in point - Taleisin tho not quite 30', displaced IIRC nearly 18,000. The FC comes in at 22' and 8000 or so. The Flicka is 20 and 6600 depending on the build year. Which would you rather be on when the water starts frothing?
> 
> So, you just need to define your needs... cost, transportability, solo capability, comfort, safety...?


If wasting tens of thousands of dollars, building trailers, overloading trucks, over stressing crew and "compromising" because in the end, as you say, the boat is too small by half then I will say this; There is nothing harder to kill than a bad idea.

Beyond that - focusing on trailer hitches is just more wasting time. Its the crew that makes the most difference. Its the skipper that makes the blue water passage. I don't see anything here about training,experience, safety plans, preparation, judgement. The most important things. None of those are found in the bed of a Dodge Dually.


----------



## john61ct

Thanks Sal, all noted, but none of those very important issues are the topic of the thread.

Just because I want a boat designed for passage making, does not mean it will be going offshore anytime soon, certainly not before it is - and I am - fully prepared.

You have to start somewhere, and owning the right boat is one of those early steps.


----------



## Sal Paradise

Ok, have fun. But, since you say you are a total noob - the type of sailing and location dictates the type of boat. As so called blue water boat is not a better boat. It depends. Sometimes, most imes actually.. lighter and faster is better. If you have smaller type sails in the near future then getting experience on a cheapo trailer sailor or maybe a 2 ton golden oldie in some Ct yard gets you much further. Then you can recoup that money when you sell it. I can see the temptation of stretching that idea. But its like cutting your steak with a hammer. 

Eventually when you go offshore or whatever, you buy the boat for that type of use. There is no boat that will be great trailering to the local boat launch and also for a passage to Hawaii. Those are two different boats. 

In the near future, you miss building your own skills ( the most important thing) to try and engineer something that doesn't work. 

That said, there must be many ways to get there, and some I don't see for sure. Good luck,


----------



## Peter Janker

News report regarding trailering sailboats with a home made solution. One man's solution....needs a bigger truck in my opinion.

V/r

Pete




This trailer was definitely not shipshape.

Police near Vancouver, Canada, pulled over an SUV driver this week for towing a sailboat precariously perched on a ramshackle trailer that had been customized with wood pallets and duct tape.


Teams - Fox News Editorial - Weekend Features - Saturday

The driver was fined the equivalent of about $1,500, which could buy a pretty decent and road legal trailer. (Cst Mangat APD) 

The bow of the vessel (named Solgangsvind, which is the name of a costal wind in Norway) was supported by a post held in place with straps.


An Abbotsford police spokesperson said via Twitter that the contraption also had a homemade third axle and no brakes. and declared that it was an example of “how not to tow your boat this summer.” With some irony, the trailer was hauled away on a bigger trailer.

The driver was fined the equivalent of about $1,500, which could buy a pretty decent and road legal trailer.


Oddly, CTV News noted that the same Twitter account posted photos just last week of a sedan carrying tree limbs on its roof, rear window and trunk that were held in place with an “old garden hose.”


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## drew1711

> One man's solution....needs a bigger truck in my opinion.


Do you think?


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## john61ct

Please start your own thread with "funny how not to" posts.

Thanks


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## rcreining

Are you set on a monohull? James Wharram catamarans are designed with removable crossbeams and platforms and thus collapse to the width of the two (narrow) hulls. I believe models up to 38 feet can be easily trailered (light boats--no ballast). They are highly seaworthy (many crossings and circumnavigations). Accommodations are spartan in the base configuration. If interested, check out wharram.net It's quite a story and worth knowing about even if you don't go that route. Almost all Wharrams are owner built, so you'd probably want to find a used one. I'm looking for a good Tiki 21 myself.


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