# Blue water trailer sailers



## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

After following this board for some time, I wasn't sure there was such a thing, but here is one.

27' Van De Stadt Sailboat and Trailer


Made in Holland, and sailed to Texas on her own keel.

Anyone know of any others?


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

Got a link?


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Any other what? Blue water boats on a trailer? If thats what you are asking about, look at a Nor'sea 27. 8 foot beam, designed to do 55 mph to weather.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

The Van De Stadt 27 may well be a legitimate "blue water" boat (however you want to define that). I don't know. What I do know is that the fact that it sailed across the Atlantic is proof of absolutely nothing.

Can't remember the name of the guy who did it, but someone sailed across the Atlantic in a 14' open, unballasted boat. Accomplishing this feat did NOTHING to change the fact that a 14' open, unballasted boat is an incredibly poor choice for bluewater passages.

Indeed, what this proves is that any particular voyage is more about the sailor than it is about the sailboat.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I know a plastic grocery bag that drifted from New York to Bordeaux, France. Does that make it a blue water grocery bag?

Van de Stadt are good builders, but at 27 feet it is still very much "Oh lord the sea is so vast and my boat so small..."


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Surface area of Atlantic ocean = 41,100,000 sq miles
Surface area of 27 foot boat = 216 sq feet
surface area of Swan 56 (56*16) = 896 sq ft 

"Van de Stadt are good builders, but at 27 feet it is still very much "Oh lord the sea is so vast and my boat so small." 

My point? Any boat, even an aircraft carrier is a speck compared to the area of an ocean.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Average wave height in blue water: bigger than 27' boat.
Smaller than aircraft carrier.

One of the reasons a 27' boat is barred from the Bermuda races, etc. as being TOO SMALL for the purpose. 

Big is a relative thing. 27' is simply at the lower end of the pecking order at sea.


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## Sail The World (Sep 25, 2011)

hellosailor said:


> I know a plastic grocery bag that drifted from New York to Bordeaux, France. Does that make it a blue water grocery bag?


LOL good point


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## ChristinaM (Aug 18, 2011)

Nearly a dozen beach cats (18'-21') have crossed the Atlantic, so my Hobie Tiger must be a bluewater boat  Cats Across the Atlantic

If you read through the link though, you'll see that even the people foolish enough to do it don't recommend it to anyone. They routinely had to stand up to get their heads above the water, which made sleep rather difficult.


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## fryewe (Dec 4, 2004)

Norsea 27. Her history is not of a random crossing of the Atlantic, but dozens of crossings and a few circumnavigations. She is built for blue water. As Capnmeme said, one answer to the OP's question...


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

Siamese said:


> Got a link?


Sailing Texas - 27' Van De Stadt Sailboat and Trailer


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

Captainmeme said:


> Surface area of Atlantic ocean = 41,100,000 sq miles
> Surface area of 27 foot boat = 216 sq feet
> surface area of Swan 56 (56*16) = 896 sq ft
> 
> ...


OK I get it, but as I don't have access to an aircraft carrier, or as one poster posted, a "nuclear submarine", I'll have to make do. My personal 300' cruise ship would be great, but one of those sunk a few years ago in the carribean, when a hurricane they were fleeing from doubled back on it's tail.

If the boat made it from Holland, I'm not going to be very concerned about if it has enough stability in a small coastal squall.

The boat of my dreams is a Formosa 41 like Zeehags, but due to personal limitations, I'm stuck with a boat that can be towed by a full sized truck.

27' with a 8' beam with shoal keel, (or centerboard), is the upper limit for size.

And I don't plan on a winter Atlantic crossing, just a few "shortcuts" from Texas to Florida. Shortcuts I can now easily take in good weather in my present boat a 36' powerboat.

Instead of a discussion on how foolhardy it is to take to the ocean on anything smaller than a battleship, lets talk about relative stability of various builds of small boats.

If you own a trailerable sailboat, and have taken it across the COLREGS line, I would like to hear about how well it did, Thank You :thumbsup:


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> Average wave height in blue water: bigger than 27' boat.
> Smaller than aircraft carrier.
> 
> One of the reasons a 27' boat is barred from the Bermuda races, etc. as being TOO SMALL for the purpose.
> ...


I don't plan on taking it to Bermuda, but towing a 41' Formosa behind a minivan is not going to happen.


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## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

fryewe said:


> Norsea 27. Her history is not of a random crossing of the Atlantic, but dozens of crossings and a few circumnavigations. She is built for blue water. As Capnmeme said, one answer to the OP's question...


I still wonder what such sailors do about tankage on such a small boat-- other than really rely on a water maker or rain water... Then, however, you don't have space for a lot of batteries, or solar panels, or generators...


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## fryewe (Dec 4, 2004)

NS 27...3 built in 20 gal H2O tanks, 25 gal diesel fuel. Some room for jerry jugs. Spartan for long hauls, but doable, especially if augmented with wine and rum...

Aux diesel and two 65W solar panels. Two deep cycle marine batteries for hotel loads. Handheld elex, oil lighting, and alcohol cooking and heating. Spartan but doable.

55 knots to weather. Sailed PNW, Gulf, Chesapeake and never rounded a cape, so far. That's next...


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

There is also the Albin Vega 27. One right now is doing a circumnavigation of the Americas.
Solo Around the America's Under Sail | An audacious attempt at sailing the Northwest Passage and circumnavigating entirety of both continents, to benefit Chesapeake Region Accessible Boating

Disclosure........We own a Nor'sea 27.

You didn't mention a budget or the number of people to be carried.


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## MarioG (Sep 6, 2009)

There a little pricy but a Flicka 20 is a trailable blue water boat.


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

Captainmeme said:


> There is also the Albin Vega 27. One right now is doing a circumnavigation of the Americas.
> Solo Around the America's Under Sail | An audacious attempt at sailing the Northwest Passage and circumnavigating entirety of both continents, to benefit Chesapeake Region Accessible Boating
> 
> Disclosure........We own a Nor'sea 27.
> ...


Budget 10-20k. Number of people 2. Maybe 3 sometimes.

I plan on mostly doing coastal, ICW, and bays, but I often go to the deep water floaters on the shelf to fish. On the times of the year it it safe to do so, I plan to cross from Galveston to Ft Myers, and continue on to the Okechobee canal, and Grand Bahama island. Or Galveston to Vera Cruz. Both of these can be broken up into small hops of 1-2 days travel time.

On a bad day the Gulf crossing can be rough for any boat, but on a good weather window it is a cakewalk.

My primary purpose of buying this boat is to get as much open water, (I'm not going to call it blue water), sailing experience as I can before buying the big boat I plan on retiring on.

I will be spending 90% of my time singlehanding.

I am well aware of the dangers and challenges of the Texas coast as I have spent the last 10 years of my life there.

Right now it is not practical to maintain a slip, so my options are 
1. Give up boating until I can
2. Buy a trailerable boat and haul it out when I need it.

A bonus; if it is towable, and launchable, I can tow it to where I want to go, and splash it, and save days to weeks of travel time.

Obviously a small boat is not going to be a floating Hilton, but right now I am sailing on a Laser, anything has got to be better than that.

Minimum requirements.
1. Head, I get complaints when using the "poop deck" at anchorage.
2. Sink, with pressure, a 12v pump hooked to a water tank, and battery isn't THAT hard. If there is space I can add it. Plus cockpit washdown.
3. At least one place I can stand up.
4. Stove
5. Generator
6. Some fixed ballast, (shoal keel). Dagger board. I recently talked to a guy that lost his swing keel in a storm, (the banging broke the pin)
7. I have seen several boats, (not for sale), that looked launchable from a trailer with a tongue extension.

Thanks for the help.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

"Budget 10-20k" That leaves the vast majority of Nor'seas 27 out. I don't know if the Albin Vega can be launched from the trailer but they have shown up on the market within your budget. 
Mahina Expedition - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising has a list of off shore cruising boats. Some of them are trailer-able without permits.
A book "Twenty small sailboats to take you anywhere" Amazon.com: Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere (9780939837328): John Vigor: Books


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## CaptFoolhardy (Sep 5, 2009)

denverd0n said:


> Can't remember the name of the guy who did it, but someone sailed across the Atlantic in a 14' open, unballasted boat. Accomplishing this feat did NOTHING to change the fact that a 14' open, unballasted boat is an incredibly poor choice for bluewater passages.


Are you referring to Webb Chiles? His boats (there were two) were the Drascombe Lugger, an 18' open, unballasted boat upon which he damn near completed a circumnavigation, not just an Atlantic crossing.

His voyage is compelling evidence that it is a combination of the seaworthiness of the vessel and the saltiness of the sailor. They don't come too much saltier than Webb.


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## ArcherBowman (Jul 1, 2009)

With respect, Skipper, a Nimiz-class carrier is in that selfsame category when the land drops below the horizon. It's a BIG ocean. ALL boatds are small.



hellosailor said:


> I know a plastic grocery bag that drifted from New York to Bordeaux, France. Does that make it a blue water grocery bag?
> 
> Van de Stadt are good builders, but at 27 feet it is still very much "Oh lord the sea is so vast and my boat so small..."


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## RXBOT (Sep 7, 2007)

I have 4 foot draft, 1200 # cast iron fin keel. Just took her out in freezing rain and high winds lin last Sundays storm. Launch and retreive from self built, purpose built trailer no problem. Trailer has 12 foot tongue that extends to 18 feet. Need decent ramp and 5 feet of water at high tide Tide here is over 6 feet. Allso have jib crane that attachs to trailer and with block and tackle (longer line in vang) raises and lowers mast while on the hard.


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## okawbow (Feb 15, 2007)

*Bristol 24*

I trailer, launch and retreive my Bristol 24 from the trailer with a full size pickup, all the time. With an 8 foot beam, 3.5 foot draft, and 5800 pound displacement with 3000 pounds ballast, it will handle trailering and blue water with the proper precautions. It has a capsize ratio of 177 and a comfort rating of 28 , which beats many larger sailboats. Find a later model, (1975-1978) that has a diesel, and you will have a solid little, trailerable cruiser for a bargain price.

My wife and I had ours out today with 20 knots plus winds and harder gusts, with reefed main and 100% jib. We felt safe and were really moving well with a balanced sail plan. I've done offshore, overnight crossings, and handled some rough water without overdue discomfort.


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

okawbow said:


> I trailer, launch and retreive my Bristol 24 from the trailer with a full size pickup, all the time. With an 8 foot beam, 3.5 foot draft, and 5800 pound displacement with 3000 pounds ballast, it will handle trailering and blue water with the proper precautions. It has a capsize ratio of 177 and a comfort rating of 28 , which beats many larger sailboats. Find a later model, (1975-1978) that has a diesel, and you will have a solid little, trailerable cruiser for a bargain price.
> 
> My wife and I had ours out today with 20 knots plus winds and harder gusts, with reefed main and 100% jib. We felt safe and were really moving well with a balanced sail plan. I've done offshore, overnight crossings, and handled some rough water without overdue discomfort.


Good info, Thanks this is exactly what I was fishing for when I started this thread.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Speak of the devil: 
Bristol 24 Corsair, Greenville, South Carolina, sailboat for sale from Sailing Texas


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

I'm looking at a Watkins 27, every reference I see says, "this is not a blue water boat", but the beam, capsize ratio, and general heavy build look good to me, whats wrong with it? AND it is very trailerable.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

I second the PSC Flicka as a "trailerable" bluewater sailboat. I wouldn't want to launch and retrieve every weekend, but it can be done fairly reasonably. For that matter, I think the Dana is also trailerable.


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

I guess an F-27 trimaran is a little out of that price range, but I have launched and sailed one and it isn't too bad as long as you have crew.


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## Flybyknight (Nov 5, 2005)

These boats have made trans oceanic crossings. Me, I'll stick to the Delaware and Chesapeake Bays.
Dick


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## eddie nelson (Jul 8, 2011)

Some reading for you on the Nor'sea 27
Nor'sea 27 For Sale, Used Norsea, Nor-sea. Ocean going, trailerable pocket cruiser


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

Flybyknight said:


> These boats have made trans oceanic crossings. Me, I'll stick to the Delaware and Chesapeake Bays.
> Dick


looks familiar, what is it? what's the price?


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## knuterikt (Aug 7, 2006)

This must be one of the smallest
Sailed from Ireland to Martinique (via Porto Santo)










YouTube video of the boat
Yrvind in Stockholm Archipelago - YouTube

The project web site Present Project


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## Flybyknight (Nov 5, 2005)

CapnBilll said:


> looks familiar, what is it? what's the price?


Capt. Bill,
It's a 1975 Cape Dory 25 in the process of major upgrades.


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## garthbirdsey (Sep 17, 2004)

*31' Grampian Classic*

This is a pretty stout boat with a heavy full keel and a high stability rating that might be considered a blue water boat with the right upgrades. I happen to have mine for sale right now AND the trailer that she is sitting on!

Here is my for sale listing:
1967 Grampian Classic 31 sailboat for sale in North Carolina

Check out her stability, motion, and speed stats here:

Sail Calculator Pro v3.53 - 2500+ boats


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

garthbirdsey said:


> This is a pretty stout boat with a heavy full keel and a high stability rating that might be considered a blue water boat with the right upgrades. I happen to have mine for sale right now AND the trailer that she is sitting on!
> 
> Here is my for sale listing:
> 1967 Grampian Classic 31 sailboat for sale in North Carolina
> ...


A good consideration. I do need two things. 1. A Trailer, 2. How do I get it to Texas?

The price is in my range, If the interior is intact, and in livable shape, and you have a plan for me to buy it, PM me, and lets talk deal.


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## my900ss (Sep 25, 2010)

If you go look at the "Share your favorite youtube sailing vids" thread you will see two links. One titled Adventures of Mr. Perfect and the other Cruising Lealea. Both videos are upper USA west Coast to Hawaii sails on two different Albin Vega 27's. That is a boat you could put on a trailer and pull with a 1/2 or 3/4 ton truck. Based on the two videos it looks to be a very competent blue water boat.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

my900ss said:


> If you go look at the "Share your favorite youtube sailing vids" thread you will see two links. One titled Adventures of Mr. Perfect and the other Cruising Lealea. Both videos are upper USA west Coast to Hawaii sails on two different Albin Vega 27's. That is a boat you could put on a trailer and pull with a 1/2 or 3/4 ton truck. Based on the two videos it looks to be a very competent blue water boat.


There is an Albin Vega 27 that is now about to round the Horn. Here is a link to his web site. He started off in the Chesapeake, sailed north, round Alaska and now is about to round the Horn. Solo Around the America's Under Sail | An audacious attempt at sailing the Northwest Passage and circumnavigating entirety of both continents, to benefit Chesapeake Region Accessible Boating


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## my900ss (Sep 25, 2010)

^^^ Yes, another example of a Vega out in the Bluewater. I have read his blog in the past and I am not sure he is as prepared as I might want to be given what he is attempting. He now has to manually pump his bilge every 5 hours because the bilge pump died... yet it seems like his boat taking on water was normal? I wish him well but he has created a situation for himself that is dangerous IMO.


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## Drummer Buoy (Apr 8, 2012)

The NorSea 27 is eminently trailerable.
We have trailed ours from the NE to to Fla and sailed out to the Bahamas more times than I can count.

As a "Blue Water" boat she is certainly up to it. We have made several trans-atlantics and one trans-Pacific in her. She is presently in Fiji.

Yes-she is small by todays standards but she is very safe, seaworthy and capable IF you take care with planing and carry the proper equipment.

Cheers,
Ed


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