# Life Raft Survival (staying warm)



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

The thought came to me a while ago, that all of the life raft survival stories that I have read (and I think I have read them all) take place in warm waters. Yet I sail in the Pacific Northwest where the waters are very very cold. So why are there no cold water raft-survival stores? Hmmm....

For those who routinely sail in cold water, what abandon ship measures do you (or should you) take against hypothermia? 

I for one, make sure to keep my diving wetsuits onboard in case of the need to abandon ship, but I don't keep them ready to go in a ditch bag. I think I feel comforted by being a costal sailor for now, yet I know I can't row my inflatable dink against a wind or current and where I sail if the tide is an ebb or the wind is easterly I could end up on my way to Japan faster than I would like. Me thinks I should be a little better prepared...

I can think of a few things that I ought to be doing but haven't been, like having a ditch bag made up which would include wool long johns. What would y'all reccomend? 

MedSailor


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## DwayneSpeer (Oct 12, 2003)

*Life vests*

Hypothermia is a real danger here in the northwest. Wearing a life vest just helps recover the body. If you are serious about staying alive in an abandon ship situation you need a survival suit and a life raft that has a double bottom in it. You have about 3 minutes in the water without a survival suit before you pass out. A wet suit that you don't wear all the time, i.e. you have to put it on after you are in the water is useless as you won't survive long enough to get it on.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The gumby suits are the way to go in cold water climates. They're designed to be easily put on, even over clothing, boots, etc. They also act as flotation. 

Most bluewater liferafts have double floors, and that helps with hypothermia. 

Wearing the right clothes help—avoid cotton, as it acts as a heat sink once it gets wet. Wool and some synthetics are good. Fleece is pretty good.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

Survival suit... and don't worry about floating to Japan from Seattle... the current will take you down the coast first.


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

Posts above pretty much sum it up, but I’ll add that I have several "space blankets” packed in the life raft. They are useful in any area as you don’t need really cold water to get hypothermia. When I was involved in naval aviation air crews were required to wear survival suits whenever the sum of the water and air temperatures (in deg. F) were less than 120.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

DwayneSpeer said:


> Hypothermia is a real danger here in the northwest. Wearing a life vest just helps recover the body. If you are serious about staying alive in an abandon ship situation you need a survival suit and a life raft that has a double bottom in it. You have about 3 minutes in the water without a survival suit before you pass out. A wet suit that you don't wear all the time, i.e. you have to put it on after you are in the water is useless as you won't survive long enough to get it on.


I appreciate your suggestions and your warning about the PNW waters, but I think your numbers are a little fatalistic. I go swimming without a wet suit all the time in the PNW and while it IS deadly cold I don't even come close to passing out in 3 minutes.... For loss of conciousness, without looking it up, I would guess 30 mins would be closer.

MedSailor


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

MedSailor said:


> I appreciate your suggestions and your warning about the PNW waters, but I think your numbers are a little fatalistic. I go swimming without a wet suit all the time in the PNW and while it IS deadly cold I don't even come close to passing out in 3 minutes.... For loss of conciousness, without looking it up, I would guess 30 mins would be closer.
> 
> MedSailor


Buy and carry a Gumby Suit--the USCG RCC will take more than 30 minutes to recieve your EPRIB signal and then an hour or more to confirm the validity of the signal before it launches a SAR effort.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Dwayne must be talking about water that is freezing or below...since the numbers for various water temps are listed *here* are seen below.










For any reasonable water temps, the time is at least 30 minutes before you pass out.



MedSailor said:


> I appreciate your suggestions and your warning about the PNW waters, but I think your numbers are a little fatalistic. I go swimming without a wet suit all the time in the PNW and while it IS deadly cold I don't even come close to passing out in 3 minutes.... For loss of conciousness, without looking it up, I would guess 30 mins would be closer.
> 
> MedSailor


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

The survival suit suggestions are right on. And if you get one, I recommend you put it on and jump in the water at least once. Even better, practice with a life raft, jumping in the water with a survival suit on and getting into a life raft. Even better, flip the life raft over and right it.

I've done this in a heated, calm indoor swimming pool for training, and it isn't that easy. The sensation of being enclosed in the survival suit is disconcerting to some. Moving in the gumby suit is clumsy. Getting into a life raft from the water with a survival suit on isn't that easy either. As part of the exercise, two of us got a "heavy" less fit person into the raft as well. That took some doing, pushing and pulling...

IMHO, survival suits are terrific, as are life rafts. 

But try em in calm conditions with your crew. This will up the odds if you need them, in what are likely to be much more challenging conditions.


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

SD, thanks for posting that table. Will be very helpfull as I am heading back up to Lake Superior in about 10 days. PNW is not the only place will cool waters. Superior is pretty chilly too, NOAA says the temps will range from about 45 - 52 on Friday the 24th. Hopefuly they won't get much cooler than the that following weekend. All the boats will have life rafts but doubtfull on the survival suits. And the link is from U of M.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Puget sound typically is 42-45F no matter the time of year. There are a few spots, like the south end of Hood Canal that can get into the 60-70F range, and some other shallower bays etc. But, the main channels will be in the low 40F range, so 30'ish to 60 min before passing out. I've felt and seen water temps in the low 80's in lake washington in the upper 7-10' range, then it gets cold really fast and quick! a you go deeper!

Marty


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## dhays (Jul 9, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> The thought came to me a while ago, that all of the life raft survival stories that I have read (and I think I have read them all) take place in warm waters. Yet I sail in the Pacific Northwest where the waters are very very cold. So why are there no cold water raft-survival stores? Hmmm....


I think we have found the answer to your prior question about anxiety. STOP READING SURVIVAL STORIES!

I'm just a bit South of you in the Tacoma area. The only time I would worry about it is when you are going to cross the Straits. The rest of the time, as long as you have a VHF and wear a PFD, you can go overboard and your chances of survival are excellent.

A typical example, we were returning from a cruise and coming back home. We heard a call on Channel 16 about a power boat which had caught fire. We dropped sails and started motoring over to that location, about 2 miles away. By the time we got anywhere near the scene, there were four other boats on location assisting and Vessel Assist was only minutes away. There are very few places in Puget Sound where a VHF radio call won't get you help in a very, very short period of time.

So, if you have a life raft, staying warm won't be the problem, just keeping from being run over by all the yachts coming to your aid will be the problem.
Of course, once you are North of Admiralty Inlet, it is a different story. Even so, I don't have a life raft and don't plan on getting one, my dinghy is fine for this area. However, if you plan on heading out beyond the Swiftsure light, then a life raft might be a good idea.

As for survivability of the water. Puget Sound has a seasonal water temperature variation of less than 10 degrees F. In the Winter, with water temps in the mid 40s, a typical person in a PFD can last about 2 hours and in the mid 50s Summer temperatures, according to the US Navy. Of course, while you may be alive after and hour in 50 degree water, you won't be much use as far as swimming or pulling yourself on board a boat.

Anyway, given the relatively crowded waters of the Puget Sound, the rapid response by fellow boaters, LEOs, USCG, and Vessel Assist to any distress calls, your time in the water will be relatively brief.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

Cold Water Boot Camp (coldwaterbootcamp.org if I remember) has great discussions on cold water survival, as do some of the sea kayaker organizations. Even the plain old life vest will buy you some survival value, especially in terms of getting time to be rescued by your crew if you fall in. Without any flotation, people are likely to inspire water or become unable to swim very quickly. Of course, the survival suits and rafts buy much more time... and you hope you won't need as much time if you have a good EPIRB or PLB, (correctly registered) people who know about your voyage (float plan), etc.


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## Allanbc (Apr 19, 2007)

I sail in warm waters but I have several space blankets in my ditch bag. They are small, light, waterproof and work well. In colder waters, it will help but the Gumby suit is your best bet.


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## tjvanginkel (Sep 26, 2006)

*Effects of cold water*

Here is a good article on the effects of cold water. TheChilling Truth About Cold Water

There was a demonstration tank at the Vancouver boat show and they had some buckles etc just like on a life jacket. The water was the same temperature as the local sea and after just a few moments it was awkward to manipulate the buckles. And this was just with my hand immersed, not my whole body. After 1 minute my hand was aching from the cold.

I am much more concious about wearing my lifejacket now!


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## norsearayder (Dec 19, 2006)

thanks to the fishermans safety act of 1988,i carry liferaft,gumby suits&epirb.i carry them everywhere,i have lost very young and strong buddies in both summer and winter..god bless them....i have allways felt that if i have to leave my craft i might as well give myself some sort of a chance


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

An inflatable ramp for entry is critical. Climbing a net is hard in warm water. While you may be conscious, at best you will have reduced physical ability in freezing cold water.


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## DwayneSpeer (Oct 12, 2003)

sailingdog said:


> Dwayne must be talking about water that is freezing or below...since the numbers for various water temps are listed *here* are seen below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, I was exaggerating, but for effect. If you go into the water here and don't get help RIGHT NOW you are in serious trouble. Plan and prepare to NOT GO INTO THE WATER first and then plan and prepare for the possibility as an afterthought.


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