# Boat Size



## awaywego

My husband and I are in the very early stages of preparing to cruise with our two young daughters in three years. Our daughters will be 3 and 4 years old. We have begun to look at boats and were thinking the mid 30ft range and were wondering if this would be a good size. We recently looked at a Morgan Out Island 41 and liked the forward berth bunks and the aft cabin design but 41 ft is a lot a boat and the price was not right. For others who have cruised with two small children, what size boat have you sailed?


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## TomMaine

awaywego said:


> My husband and I are in the very early stages of preparing to cruise with our two young daughters in three years. Our daughters will be 3 and 4 years old. We have begun to look at boats and were thinking the mid 30ft range and were wondering if this would be a good size. We recently looked at a Morgan Out Island 41 and liked the forward berth bunks and the aft cabin design but 41 ft is a lot a boat and the price was not right. For others who have cruised with two small children, what size boat have you sailed?


We coastal cruised with our daugther and son from babies to adults. Our first boat, 28', was plenty for two adults and two small bodies. Mostly weekends but also a winter in the Bahamas.

When they reached 10 to 12, things started to get smaller. Berths, galley, dinghy, cockpit, head, lockers. We still did it in the smaller boat, but when an old 38'er found us, there was a collective sigh of pleasure from all of us.

The best part of the bigger boat was that it has two pilot berths. A 1961 design, our Alden Challenger is tiny by today's boats standards. But I can't for the life of me think of a worse arrangement for two siblings than an aft cabin. Our two got along so well together, but kids are kids. Two kids in an aft cabin would be like putting your dog and cat back there.

At 3 and 4 years old, many arrangements will work well. You don't need a big boat. Think of each having their own space to sleep and a small area to stow their stuff in a way that leaves the boat open for you to use when their sleeping(napping during daylight).

Think of a cockpit big enough for all of you underway and at anchor(you'll spend most of your time there).

You can find these spaces on smaller boats, but many are not designed with kids in mind.

Good luck, best thing we ever did was sail with our kids for 2 decades.


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## Jeff_H

Tom's comments echo my own experiences growing up. My family bought a 25 footer when I was 11 (almost 12) and my brother was 8. Like most boats of that era, the interior of the boat was tiny compared to a modern boat. We went out pretty much every weekend and typically would take a 10-11 day cruise each summer. In hindsight I cannot imagine how my folks pulled that off. I cannot imagine a modern family going through the daily routine my folks went though in terms of packing and unpacking the galley and disassembling the galley table and bunks to stow everything. 

By the time I was 14 it became too much for my folks and they bought a 32 foot Pearson Vanguard. We ended up living on that boat during the summers and cruising up to two weeks at a time. But even the Vanguard took a lot of ingenuity to work for a family of four. Making and striking bedding each day to allow adequate storage to be able to sail or use the main cabin and erect the galley table. 

Newer designs often have a more convenient lay out but the problem on a small boat is always going to be access to storage which means more labor and less convenience. This inconvenience mostly comes in the form of using every crevice efficiently. And that means removing bunches of stuff from lockers to get to the one thing you need. 

My sense is that you probably could get by with a 25-30 foot boat while your children are young. It won't be easy but it can be done. I think that will get old pretty quickly. My sense is that pretty quickly you will end up with a 38-42 footer. 

That does not mean you should start that big.the lessons from living small will help you pick the right big boat and use her efficiently.

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## chris_gee

We had an 18' trailer sailer for many years with two children up to their early teens and a dog and cat. Had a lot of great times too. Sure 22' would have seemed luxury, and in those days 28' was enough for a couple anyway to head offshore.
Boating like camping can involve some deprivation of comfort but has other gains.
probably what the kids enjoyed most was hitting the beach and snorkeling, or cooking sausages on a fire on the beach, and having the dog along.
These days people might expect greater comfort but I would think 28-36' adequate even for older kids. After all you are not spending days at a time confined to the boat, assuming you are not going offshore and require large amounts of storage.
The advantages of smaller size are cost, and maintenance costs and time, which can eat into the actual use time. Smaller is also more likely to happen.
I would buy according to your likely actual usage. Sure in 5-10 years you may want to go offshore or maybe not. At that point you will have a clearer idea of your needs then.


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## Jeff_H

For some reason there are some questions and discussions which bounce around in my mind like a BB in a box car, and while I was out sailing today, this has been one of them. As I began to think about this question, I initially thought, "gee, this is kind of a how long is a piece of string?' kind of a question.", because any reply that you receive will not likely be the correct answer for your situation. After all we all have our own tolerance for how spartan or plush our world needs to be, our own sense of privacy, our own routines, our own tastes and our own budgets. The answers that you receive are more likely to tell you more about the responder than about what is right for you. 

But as I thought about that thought relative to my earlier comments, I thought that sounds perhaps discouraging and perhaps dismissive, when in fact I think its a neat thing that you are trying to do. I tend to romanticize my memories of living as a family on our boat. I remember it as a time when I was close with my parents, learning and sharing. There was a sense of shared responsibility. My brother and I were responsible for strpping our beds, folding our clothes and bed linens, putting on and removing sail covers, hanking on the jib. When we got older, we were each assigned a side of the boat to keep the teak oiled and the chrome polished and waxed. When one side began to look better than the other, Dad had us switch sides. 

The close relation that I built with my Dad working on the boats and sailing together has held for the 50 plus years since. The ability 'to do things' was learned at his side. My Mom passed a decade ago, but the shared sense of adventures carried through our relationship as well. 

So examine your self. Ask what you need to be comfortable. With a small boat every thing needs to be carefully marshalled. Can you get by with rationing electricity, and water, washing in salt water and only rinsing in fresh, doing spit showers, and cooking on two burners. It can be done, but its not right for everyone if you see what I mean. 

Jeff


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## Cruisingdad

awaywego said:


> My husband and I are in the very early stages of preparing to cruise with our two young daughters in three years. Our daughters will be 3 and 4 years old. We have begun to look at boats and were thinking the mid 30ft range and were wondering if this would be a good size. We recently looked at a Morgan Out Island 41 and liked the forward berth bunks and the aft cabin design but 41 ft is a lot a boat and the price was not right. For others who have cruised with two small children, what size boat have you sailed?


What is your definition of cruising? I ask this because it changes the answer. For some (us) it is fulltime, no car, no house, living and moving on the boat. If it doesn't float on the boat, it doesn't go. For others, it is a six pack of beer and a pizza after work while tied to the slip.

Happy to help here. Cruising with kids is my passion.

Brian


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## awaywego

Thanks so much for your comments. 

Jeff—your comments were very inspiring since we have started to get some discouragement. We know we are on a tighter budget which means a smaller boat, but we also are very committed to making this happen. We are hoping to create similar memories with our family.

Cruisingdad-our plans are to live aboard the boat full time. We will start in Beaufort and sail down the coast and then to the Bahamas…from there who knows. We are hoping to be able to do this for a couple of years depending of finances. We want to keep things small, simple, and safe.


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## blt2ski

Not that I live aboard with kids........but the few I know that do so, have boats in the 40-45 even 50' long. As noted, have space for ea kid per say, a boat that can handle any kind of weather etc.

This is no different than my taking my kids out with a RV trailer we had. Ours was 24' long, about as short as we could get away with for how we used it. If it would have been much longer than weekends during ski season, maybe a week or two in the summer. A MUCH bigger trailer would have been needed. Boating is the same. Are you weekending, or full timing, to something in the middle. By the way, there is a really nice ready to go Jeanneau SO49iP in the NW. Owner took his twin daughters and spouse on a round the pacific trip. Boat is still ready to go! Altho with close to 8' of draft, east coasters may find it too confining. Here in puget sound, along the pacific etc, no issues.

marty


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## jimgo

The beauty of your plan is that you're already building in time to handle setting up the boat properly. You aren't expecting to just hop aboard and go. That gives you time to spread out the cost of repairs that will be needed for the boat. When you buy, you'll likely have an initial outlay for "stuff", even if it's just silly things like head deodorizer, teak oil, boat soap, etc. And you'll find that you need tools that you never needed before. But, after that initial buying spree, you can start to pace yourself and figure out what you truly need, and how soon you'll need it.

So far, it sounds like you are taking a reasonable, logical approach. Yeah, it would be great to have $200,000 to spend on the boat. You don't. So, you basically have 2 choices: give up completely, or modify your plans/expectations. Given that I'm a member here, I think you can figure out which side of that fence I come down on!

You say you want to sail away, but on your other thread, you mostly discuss coastal cruising and the Bahamas. As I understand it (I've never done it, so don't rely on me for this!), the trip to the Bahamas is a day sail from Miami if you have good weather. Sailing with 2 younger kids aboard means you're likely to only try to make that trip in good weather. Can you be content cruising around the US and the Bahamas? If so, you may not need the super-stout, super-big boat that you have in mind. Brian (Cruisingdad) lives aboard a 40' Catalina with his wife and 2 boys. With all due respect to Brian and Catalina, those boats are coastal cruising boats, not ocean crossers. But it meets his needs perfectly (or at least well enough to keep him and his family happy), and something like that might work for you as well. Heck, even something slightly smaller might work. Here are a few examples:

1984 Catalina 38 sailboat for sale in Florida

1984 Catalina 36 Tall Rig sailboat for sale in North Carolina

1985 Catalina 36 sailboat for sale in Virginia

1989 catalina sloop sailboat for sale in Florida - yes, it's well above your price range, but she's been on the market for several months, and possibly longer. Never hurts to ask.

1983 Catalina Catalina 38 sailboat for sale in Maryland

So, are you only in if you can cross oceans, or do you want to spend a year or three (or more) building amazing memories while hopping down the coast, seeing the sights, and enjoying a lifestyle most of us wish we could pull off?


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## awaywego

Really appreciate your thoughts jimgo. We have a Catalina 25 right now, so I have no idea why Catalinas haven't been a big part of our search so far. I agree that they aren't ocean crossers, but luckily, that's isn't in our plans at all right now. In fact, when we first decided to become cruisers in a few years, we immediately started getting overwhelmed about boat issues, navigation issues, money issues, safety issues and the list went on and on. But we finally took a step back, recommitted, and set our goals to be very achievable. We're not trying to cross oceans, just head south down the ICW for a while. As we get comfortable with that, maybe cross over to Freeport. If we like it, head to some of the other out islands. From there, we'll just see what our confidence and our wallet allows. When we simplified our vision, it didn't seem so crazy anymore, we refocused, and now we're working to make it all happen. 

We read a personal finance blog and an article was written about the power of optimism. I'm a big believer in optimism. You kinda have to be on these forums...many people will list all the reasons why you can't go or shouldn't go. I appreciate all of the advice, but sometimes you have to block out things you don't want to hear. So anyway, the writer said " the very act of believing in the viability of a bold plan, greatly affects the chances of you succeeding at it." I'm gonna go with that.

By the way, those listings you posted are all great! I like that Catalina has such a great sailing association and availability of parts so we're gonna take a good hard look!


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## jimgo

Ahhh! You've been holding out on us (or at least me!), I didn't realize you had a C25! What year? Swing, fixed, or wing keel? How do your girls like the boat so far? How long have you had it?

Sorry for all the questions. My boys are 7 and 5, and we bought our C25 when they were 5 and 3. Last season was our first and last season with the C25 due to Hurricane Sandy, so now we're on to the Allmand. Otherwise, we'd probably have kept the C25 for several more years. Ours was the traditional floorplan, and I was working on some PVC-based designs for turning the settees into a queen-size bed (inflatable mattress) for my wife and me, so our boys could sleep in the v-berth and/or the quarter berth. Certainly not live-aboard conditions, but it would have been fine for a few weekends a summer.

Glad I could help. The folks here helped get me out of my "funk" when my new-to-me boat had some problems, so I'm always happy to return the favor.

BTW, despite the tone of some of my posts, I'm a big believer in the power of positive thinking. I agree that believing in the plan is a big part in executing it. However, for me, part of believing is researching and making as sure as possible that I haven't missed anything stupid. I make a lot of stupid mistakes.


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## Cruisingdad

jimgo said:


> The beauty of your plan is that you're already building in time to handle setting up the boat properly. You aren't expecting to just hop aboard and go. That gives you time to spread out the cost of repairs that will be needed for the boat. When you buy, you'll likely have an initial outlay for "stuff", even if it's just silly things like head deodorizer, teak oil, boat soap, etc. And you'll find that you need tools that you never needed before. But, after that initial buying spree, you can start to pace yourself and figure out what you truly need, and how soon you'll need it.
> 
> So far, it sounds like you are taking a reasonable, logical approach. Yeah, it would be great to have $200,000 to spend on the boat. You don't. So, you basically have 2 choices: give up completely, or modify your plans/expectations. Given that I'm a member here, I think you can figure out which side of that fence I come down on!
> 
> You say you want to sail away, but on your other thread, you mostly discuss coastal cruising and the Bahamas. As I understand it (I've never done it, so don't rely on me for this!), the trip to the Bahamas is a day sail from Miami if you have good weather. Sailing with 2 younger kids aboard means you're likely to only try to make that trip in good weather. Can you be content cruising around the US and the Bahamas? If so, you may not need the super-stout, super-big boat that you have in mind. Brian (Cruisingdad) lives aboard a 40' Catalina with his wife and 2 boys. With all due respect to Brian and Catalina, those boats are coastal cruising boats, not ocean crossers. But it meets his needs perfectly (or at least well enough to keep him and his family happy), and something like that might work for you as well. Heck, even something slightly smaller might work. Here are a few examples:
> 
> 1984 Catalina 38 sailboat for sale in Florida
> 
> 1984 Catalina 36 Tall Rig sailboat for sale in North Carolina
> 
> 1985 Catalina 36 sailboat for sale in Virginia
> 
> 1989 catalina sloop sailboat for sale in Florida - yes, it's well above your price range, but she's been on the market for several months, and possibly longer. Never hurts to ask.
> 
> 1983 Catalina Catalina 38 sailboat for sale in Maryland
> 
> So, are you only in if you can cross oceans, or do you want to spend a year or three (or more) building amazing memories while hopping down the coast, seeing the sights, and enjoying a lifestyle most of us wish we could pull off?


Hey Jim,

I know the owner of that C38 in Maryland (almost positive it is his boat). We became good friends while they were in Boot Key. Of interest to the OP, he had two boys on board (9 and 13). Now you know why we stayed in touch. They are good people and honest.

That boat will need some new sails and some other minor work, but it obviously will work with kids. He sailed it from CA, down the west coast, through the panama canal, S America, across the gulf to the keys, and up the east coast. It is a good sailing and handling boat.

Also, the C38 is a completely different boat than the Catalina 380. It is Catalina in name only. It is a Sparkman Stephens designed boat, the old Yankees. It was bought by Frank and he produced them under the Catalina name.

That boat would be a good choice for the you Awaywego. My biggest issue with it (and it is a big one) is the draft. That is a real problem down here. For example, the owner of that boat ran aground in the middle of the ICW while heading up to Maryland to sell it... and that was in FL where it is maintained. Personally, I would prefer a more shallow draft not exceeding 6, but preferably 5 or under. We have run aground many times (even in the ICW) at 6.

Your kids are a great age and easy to take cruising. The beauty of boats is that they are pretty kid proof as they come. They are young enough that they can be berthed in the same SR, even in the same bed. You will want to consider cabinetry and water. We honestly go through about 6-15g/day with the 4 of us. However, this often includes at least one, if not two showers. As Captforce mentioned, you will find ways to conserve water that work for you. But you can also carry some gerry cans and bottled water to help supplement. I would not get a watermaker to start off with. Many or most of the places you go will have water, and those that do not, you may not want to make it there anyways.

Another thing to look for is ventilation and how the kids will sleep. For example, we put our kids in the V berth where there is the most ventilation and we could put a divider across to split it in the middle and a "crib side" to lock them in. When they got older, we removed the crib side, but they still have the divider. Our think is to make sure everyone (even Fatty) has a 'place' that is theirs. Any boat gets small, so having a place where the kid (or parent) can escape to makes life much more enjoyable.

Whatever you do, get a boat that is comfortable. It will be your home, not a boat. Big difference. I keep saying it, but storage is critical. Look for deep bilges. You will put a lot of canned goods and water there... esp with kids. Opt to pay more for a well cared for boat over a cheaper boat that you can fix up. Fixer-uppers can cost more than if you had just bought the more expensive to begin with. See if you can get a boat loaded with cruising gear. That stuff is expensive (esp life rafts).

If you have any real questions on that boat (the C38) let me know. I have zero vested interest in that boat, just know the owners and like them a lot. They are honest people and good sailors.

I have lived owned: A C 250, C320, C380 (and cruised on it), and now a C400. Also part owner in a Tayana 42 Vancouver. I know most of the Catalina line pretty well, and am fairly knowledgeable in some others.

Anything kid related I am happy to help with. That is about all we have done. Currently in Boot Key (marathon) doing it Fulltime.

Take care,

Brian


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## chucklesR

I've never cruised with young kids, but have chartered with ours when older.

I simply can not imagine living on a boat with kids and not having a totally separate private cabin. Not just for the obvious, but also because some conversations need to be private etc.

Ditto even just a cruising couple. I'm sure over the years I'll be glad I can (or she can) simply go to the aft cabin and close the door.


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## Jeff_H

jimgo said:


> The beauty of your plan is that you're already building in time to handle setting up the boat properly. You aren't expecting to just hop aboard and go. That gives you time to spread out the cost of repairs that will be needed for the boat. Here are a few examples:
> 
> 1984 Catalina 38 sailboat for sale in Florida
> 
> 1984 Catalina 36 Tall Rig sailboat for sale in North Carolina
> 
> 1985 Catalina 36 sailboat for sale in Virginia
> 
> 1989 catalina sloop sailboat for sale in Florida - yes, it's well above your price range, but she's been on the market for several months, and possibly longer. Never hurts to ask.
> 
> 1983 Catalina Catalina 38 sailboat for sale in Maryland
> 
> So, are you only in if you can cross oceans, or do you want to spend a year or three (or more) building amazing memories while hopping down the coast, seeing the sights, and enjoying a lifestyle most of us wish we could pull off?


I think that many of Jimgo's points are right on target, but I would respectfully disagree with the suggestions of a Catalina 36 or 38. The Catalina 38 started out as a race boat. These are reasonably fast boat and seem to be constructed better than many of the earlier Catalinas, but they really are tricky to sail in a building breeze, and not particularly well suited to being a family cruising boat. They lack the kinds of tankage and carrying capacity that you will want to cruise with four people, and while tanks can be added, they come at the price of storage which is in short supply on these boats. They also have a pretty uncomfortable motion making them a poor candidate for a thrash across the Gulfstream or the chop in the Bahama Banks.

The Catalina 36 is a reasonably nice coastal cruiser for the dollars, and could be made to work for your purposes, but the kind of voyaging that you propose puts a lot of wear and tear on a boat. The hull and deck joints on these boats were not all that robust and any one that you find in your price range is likely to be pretty beat up. Its one thing to buy an older boat that was robustly constructed to begin with, and quite another to buy a boat that began life on the lightly built side and has 30-40 years of use on it. Again these boats are a little on the light side in terms of tankage and carrying capacity. Motion comfort is not their strong suit either. I would keep the Cat 36 as a fall back if you don't find anything else, but would definitely not view these as a first choice....

Jeff


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## awaywego

Jim-We have had the boat for 4 years and before the Catalina, we had a Precision 21. It is a swing keel. Beaufort has very shallow water with lots of sandbars which is the reason we went for a swing keel; however after sailing her for a while a wing keel would do just fine and less to worry about with maintenance.

Our girls have not spent a lot of time on the boat thus far, they are currently 17 months and 2 months. And actually we have not spent that much time on the boat recently. As soon as our youngest get a little older, we will be out a lot more. I want to get them comfortable with sailing as soon as possible and do some overnight/weekend trips with them leading up to purchasing our cruising boat and leaving.
Laura


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## jimgo

Laura,
I'd get them aboard as soon as you are comfortable, even if it's just to sit at the dock or go for a motor ride. I think the earlier you get them aboard and used to wearing PFD's, the easier it will be. But that's just my opinion.

It's funny, I came to the same conclusions about our swing keel. We were in areas with 4' of water at high tide, and .5' at low tide. We sailed with the board up almost all the time. The extra 3-4" probably wouldn't have made that much of a difference, and not having to wonder about the condition of the winch mechanism would have been nice. We actually went with a shoal draft boat for that reason. I would have considered an O'Day because their keels aren't weighted the way the C25's keel is, but it didn't meet our needs for other reasons.

Jeff, I appreciate the very tactful way you handled my suggestions. I'm the first to admit that I don't usually know what I'm talking about, especially when it comes to specific models. Of course, that doesn't stop me from voicing an opinion.


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## jimgo

One last thought: have you considered an S2 11.0 center cockpit? That's pretty much my dream boat. I couldn't find any in my price range, but my range was about 1/4 of yours.


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## Cruisingdad

Jeff_H said:


> I think that many of Jimgo's points are right on target, but I would respectfully disagree with the suggestions of a Catalina 36 or 38. The Catalina 38 started out as a race boat. These are reasonably fast boat and seem to be constructed better than many of the earlier Catalinas, but they really are tricky to sail in a building breeze, and not particularly well suited to being a family cruising boat. They lack the kinds of tankage and carrying capacity that you will want to cruise with four people, and while tanks can be added, they come at the price of storage which is in short supply on these boats. They also have a pretty uncomfortable motion making them a poor candidate for a thrash across the Gulfstream or the chop in the Bahama Banks.
> 
> The Catalina 36 is a reasonably nice coastal cruiser for the dollars, and could be made to work for your purposes, but the kind of voyaging that you propose puts a lot of wear and tear on a boat. The hull and deck joints on these boats were not all that robust and any one that you find in your price range is likely to be pretty beat up. Its one thing to buy an older boat that was robustly constructed to begin with, and quite another to buy a boat that began life on the lightly built side and has 30-40 years of use on it. Again these boats are a little on the light side in terms of tankage and carrying capacity. Motion comfort is not their strong suit either. I would keep the Cat 36 as a fall back if you don't find anything else, but would definitely not view these as a first choice....
> 
> Jeff


Hey my friend,

I don't completely disagree with you, but that particular 38 just came in from San Francisco with two boys (our boys age) after two years at sea... all through S America, the canal, keys, and all the way up to Maryland. So it can be done on that boat... and that is with two boys that eat and drink as much as two adults (I know!!! I fed them one day!). Like I said, I know the owners.

There is not going to be a perfect boat for her due to her budget, but finding the right compromise will be key. My biggest issue is not the water on that boat, it is the draft. You can make the water work with gerry cans and conservation... not ideal, but doable.

Brian


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## Jeff_H

Brian,

I think that you and I are basically in agreement. Given a $20,000 budget to cruise with 4 people, (albeit 2 are very young children), the ultimate range of choices will probably be the better of a variety of less than ideal options. Within those less than ideal options there will be boats, which may be able to work acceptably, and boats which make no sense at all. 

As Laura and her family wade through their choices, they will eventually put together a written or mental check list of features and criteria that they would like to have or not have in the boat that they ultimately sellect. 

Some of their criteria may be strongly held deal busters, and so would eliminate some models from being considered adequate to meet thier needs. Some criteria may result in them determining that some designs may be acceptable but not the best choice. And some of these criteria may become the trading cards that steer towards a final decision on one particular make, model, and/or boat purchased. 

With that in mind, my comments above are not meant to say, this boat cannot do what the Laura's family needs it to do. My comments are meant to suggest that there are better choices out there, and here are the criteria that I am basing that on knowing that these are my own personal criteria and not necessarily theirs. 

And I think, that is the broad generality where we are in agreement....

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## Cruisingdad

Jeff_H said:


> Brian,
> 
> I think that you and I are basically in agreement. Given a $20,000 budget to cruise with 4 people, (albeit 2 are very young children), the ultimate range of choices will probably be the better of a variety of less than ideal options. Within those less than ideal options there will be boats, which may be able to work acceptably, and boats which make no sense at all.
> 
> As Laura and her family wade through their choices, they will eventually put together a written or mental check list of features and criteria that they would like to have or not have in the boat that they ultimately sellect.
> 
> Some of their criteria may be strongly held deal busters, and so would eliminate some models from being considered adequate to meet thier needs. Some criteria may result in them determining that some designs may be acceptable but not the best choice. And some of these criteria may become the trading cards that steer towards a final decision on one particular make, model, and/or boat purchased.
> 
> With that in mind, my comments above are not meant to say, this boat cannot do what the Laura's family needs it to do. My comments are meant to suggest that there are better choices out there, and here are the criteria that I am basing that on knowing that these are my own personal criteria and not necessarily theirs.
> 
> And I think, that is the broad generality where we are in agreement....
> 
> Respectfully,
> Jeff


Right on, my friend.

Jeff (and Jim),

How about that S2? I have little first hand experience with them. Only sailed one once. Would that be an option?

Brian


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## awaywego

Yes, we've already started to assemble a checklist of items that we would like to characterize our boat. Much of the list deals with living arrangements, equipment and systems already on board, and maintenance of hull, rigging, sails, etc. The draft of the boat is as important an issue as any we've been considering however. We live in Beaufort, SC.....sandbar heaven. And we want to go hang out in the Keys and the Bahamas for crying out loud. Do they make flat-bottom sailboats?! Haha. 

Anyway, really appreciate the passion you've put into this discussion. We realize that our budget won't have us sailing in luxury, but we're looking forward to it. We're tired of the life of luxury and leisure we live as it is now anyway!

Seriously though, we've got a very committed attitude and hope to find a safe boat that meets our needs for this trip. Off the top of my head though, we prefer the following traits:

- cost near 30k
- range of 34 - 38 feet
- ketch or sloop is fine
- keel or skeg mounted rudder
- wheel steering
- I like bow sprits
- we're ok with either aft or center cockpit design
- draft of 5ft or less
- u shaped galley
- only one head
- bow and stern overhangs are beautiful, but not desired by us. We want waterline and LOA to be pretty damn close
- seems like if the boat has been cruised a lot, then we might be able to take advantage of what the previous owner has already made adjustments to, added to the boat, or fixed with the boat. A boat that has survived decades of cruising (with the right kind of owner) might not be a bad thing, in my inexperienced opinion.

I hope these qualities aren't completely unachievable for our price range. Many other issues, like safety equipment, engine, air conditioning, inverters, generators, water makers, electrical systems and battery banks, and navigation and communication equipment are probably going to be the topics of future posts by us.

So run it through the computer everybody....what is the magic boat that satisfies all that?!?!?!


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## jimgo

Why only one head?


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## awaywego

Actually, that came from an experience i had looking at a Morgan sailboat that had two heads. After considering it, the forward head seemed like a royal waste of space. Maybe others will tell me I'm wrong, but I couldn't see the need for two of them, especially when you weigh it against what that space COULD be used for. Seemed to me it could make a really great storage locker or extension of the forward cabin. Obviously, having two potties is not a deal-breaker, but I'd love to find a boat that found a way to use the space for something else...you know?


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## jimgo

How many bathrooms do you have in your home now? Are your girls potty-trained yet? We constantly have battles for who will use our downstairs bathroom. Both boys sit and read or play games with each other until one is about to burst, then rushes for the bathroom. At that same time, the other one, who had been sitting quietly, suddenly realizes that he doesn't just need to pee, he needs to poop, and NOW. Our guys have been potty-trained for a long time (you'd hope so at 7 and 5!), but this kind of thing happens with some regularity. It is nice to have a second bathroom in those instances Another scenario is bad food running through the family. Sometimes, even 3 toilets isn't enough when there are 4 of you!

If you're living aboard full time, these things happen. I think I'd rather have a 2nd head that doubles as a closet, but which can be cleared out, or at least the toilet used, when needed.


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## awaywego

Some good ideas, but like I said...not a deal breaker. You made the point that a second head could serve as a storage locker and just have a space cleared out when needed, and I think this makes a lot of sense. I imagine cruisers probably regularly use heads as storage for things.


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## Cruisingdad

We cruised with one head for quite a while (Catalina 380). In an emergency, the capt can pee off the back and you can also carry a seat to go on your 5 gallon bucket which I suspect you will carry anyways.

I think on a 30 foot boat, or anything under 40 feet, I would want just one head. You probably wont find a lot of boats at your size will have two heads anyways. 

One thing I would put on your list is a separate shower. Not a deal breaker, but pretty high on our list. Many boats simply have a shower in the head and it gets water everywhere and you are always drying it off. It also allows someone to use the restroom while one person is in the shower. 

As I have said before, storage is going to be critical for you. Lots of cabinetry and a deep bilge for stowing canned goods and other heavy items. Many boats (for reasons that escape me) have almost no bilge. You will also be carrying a lot of tools and spare parts that you will want to stowe low. 

Just some ideas.

Brian


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## vtsailguy

I went through this same process earlier this year
The Best Boat for Cruising with Children | Sailing With Kids

I think one big decision you have to make is are you going to buy a boat you will keep till they are teenagers, or will you upgrade.

Two children under 10 can VERY easily use quarter berths for their "hobbit holes". This implies something as small as 31/32'. Look very late 70's/early 80's boats with this double quarter berth layout.

Over 10 and you'll probably need cabins for your sanity. Now you are looking at boats in the 36-40 range. Interestingly, I saw Gib Sea 33 for sale with twin cabins at the back. Cute as anything!


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## PuraVida

My wife, twin 7 year old boys and I have been cruising the Great Lakes for 3 years. We cruising wth a Catalina 27. This is a great little boat, but very quickly we discovered the need for more room. I found a great deal on a 1985 Catalina 30 in Muskegon, MI last summer and the difference in space is amazing. I am now sure that the C-30 is the biggest 30 footer made. However, this is NOT a blue water boat. It is a great and affordable coastal cruiser that can handle some heavier water, but it's not made to cross oceans. 
Last summer we sailed the east coast of Lake Michigan and lived on the boat for 7 weeks. For the boys we always have activities, games and projects. Both boys are already learning navigation and plotting our coarses. One of the boys takes one hour shifts at the helm. The other turns on the autopilot and plays chess on my iPad. 

One of the advantages of staying 30 feet or smaller are the marina fees. Dockage fees start to go WAY up after you pass the 30 foot mark. Also, it is easier to find available slips. 

Back to the Catalinas....
This is a very affordable boat that is also very easy to maintain. Due to the fact that so many of the 27, 30 and 36 were made, finding parts is cheap and easy. Even new sails are very affordable and used sails in great condition can be acquired very cheaply.

The galley on the C-30 and C-36 is a REAL galley with lots of storage. We almost always cook for ourselves when we cruise. My boys share the double quarter birth and we sleep in the very large V-birth. We have been very happy with the Catalinas as they are just right for our needs and budget.
Best
Robert
Pura Vida-Omena MI


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## Brent Swain

There is a great article in Bob Bitchin's lates rag "Cruising Outpost " winter 2014, on Page 46 , on boat size. It makes some good points.
Check it out.


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