# Philadelphia Area Sailing?



## CapnSantiago (Jul 17, 2007)

I have a potential opportunity with my employment to be temporarily relocated to Philly for 3 years. I'm curious as to what the sailing scene is there. I am a lake sailor here in Texas so have no experience with tides or currents or bay weather or commercial traffic or prolonged cold weather. Also, I suppose I would have to lease a boat but haven't found alot of opportunities there. I read stories herein about haulouts for the winter and not putting back in until May (that's midsummer for me). My boat stays in the water year round unless it needs some work. I could go sailing on a good day in Dec/Jan if wanted (although I usually don't). If it's below 60 or winds above 20 I stay off the water in the slip and just hang out and mess about on the boat. I have googled and understand there is sailing on the Delaware river, Delaware Bay, and Chesepeake Bay, but they all seem to be performance/racing boats, not cruisers. 

So please let me know, what sort of culture shock am I in for?


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

It's good to great. the lower river in Phila is big water and has BIG boat traffic, with ships and barges. there are yacht clubs in abundance, a good amount of pricey marinas, and lots and lots of sailors... Also there are sailboat races and more. Lots of cruisers too. dunno what you googled but it was wrong. Yes the season is short.


----------



## alman (Mar 12, 2003)

Yes, you will be in for a shock....it is a limited season.
But check out this website for the Philadelphia Sailing Club
Philadelphia Sailing Club

We charter on the Chesapeake many weekends during the sailing season.
Then during the year there are several long trips to any place that has water and sailboats.....Caribbean, Belize, Turkey, Great Lakes, Maine, etc.

There are other events.....our hard aground program.....not necessarily about sailing, but with fellow sailors. And besides the monthly meeting, there is a monthly happy hour....so there are many opportunities to share your love of sailing with other like-minded people.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Liberty Sailing Club Racing and Cruising J/Boats on the Delaware River Waterfront in Center City Philadelphia

Liberty Sailing Club located near the Ben Franklin Bridge, has a fleet of J boats available to members.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

this is like the 2nd or 3rd time someone's asked about sailing in this area and got bogus information.. gotta wonder bout that!


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

The Delaware River above Ben Franklin Bridge.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Delaware River at Essington. Float plane take-off at Darby Creek


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

the guys at Riverside YC were telling me how that seaplane terminal is historic, But the airport wants to squash it because seaplanes are a hazard in the approach and take off lanes. (or something like that)


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Denise
The seaplane base is older than Philadelphia International Airport, and probably older than the now abandoned airfield at the Navy Yard.
Float planes use the water at the entrance to Darby Creek with north or south winds, and the waters between Little Tinicum and the mainland for east or west winds.
At times the airspace may appear crowded with the airport approach, Boeing helicopter test flights and the float planes, but for me it is just more cool stuff to look at on the river.

The river is rarely a dull place, we have a good collection of birds of pray including eagles and hawks, a variety of commercial shipping and a variety of aircraft including the occasional V22 Osprey.


----------



## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Unquestionably ----- the CHESAPEAKE.

Probably 'most' Philadelphia and S. Jersey area sailors with larger boats (<30ft) prefer the (Upper) Chesapeake ..... about 1-2 hours drive from the Philly area. Most favor the Upper Eastern Shore (rural, unspoiled, uncrowded, 'mannered'): Sassafrass R., Worton Creek, Fairlee Creek, Tolchester, Rock Hall with Rock Hall probably having the most amenities, boat services and best proximity to Annapolis, St. Michaels, Baltimore and the 'mid-bay'. 

The Delaware Bay has essentially ZERO marinas, few 'ports', is very buggy, is very shallow and can have very strong tidal flow - not much 'boating' on the Delaware Bay with the exception of Cape May, NJ. If you like 'pristine' low-country wetland wilderness and being 'totally on your own' the Delaware Bay may have some appeal. 

The Delaware River can have strong/swift tidal flow, is the 'drainage' for mostly city/suburban areas - not very 'scenic/bucolic'. 

I live ON the Delaware R. between the 'mountains' and Philthydelphia.

My recommendation for anyone in SE PA & S. NJ is the Chesapeake.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

True Rich, to a point.. but my boat is less then 10 mins from my house and it's easy to sail a few hours any day rather then drive 2 hours . the sojourn to the Chessy is a fun trip and I love Chesapeake City. The current is fast but most of us use it out of habit. Someday I'll get down to cape may too


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Similar to what Rodney Dangerfield used to say, the Philly area gets no respect. The important thing to understand coming from another country like Texas  is that you are not moving to a city so much as to a region. And, taken as a whole, that region has huge opportunities for sailing over a very diverse range of conditions.

I keep my new (to me) keel boat in the Delaware at Essington. The currents run fast, and tidal swings of 6-8' are typical. But given the dozens of times I've run down to do little projects, I am glad the boat is only 15 minutes away. We'll see how much I like sailing in the Delaware this year, and then decide whether to move somewhere else next year. But so far I think the Delaware gets a bum rap. It's a lot deeper than the Chesapeake, and terms like "Philthydelphia" are a too-easy cheap shot.

Philly is about 1.5-2 hours from the upper Chesapeake tributaries, home of some of the most popular sailing spots in the US with hundreds of great anchor spots and land-based destinations. Northeast, Bohemia, and Sassafras Rivers, Havre de Grace at the base of the Susquehanna and Rock Hall are all within easy reach from Philadelphia, and there are many charters available in the 30-45' range. Here's one example - everyone tells me these guys take good care of their boats:

Bareboat Sailboat Charters on the Maryland Eastern Shore of the Chesapeake Bay

If you go east to the Jersey shore, there is sailing in the Barnegat Bay. It's notoriously shallow, which leads to some huge chop, but there are people who do sail both daysailers and even cruisers there, and it's a neat resort ambience. And, of course, you can get out to the ocean from there, Atlantic City, or Cape May if you want really hard core sailing. Someone here posted this link to an interesting daysailer rental place in Barnegat Bay:

Sailing Schools, Sailing Lessons, Sailboat Rentals and Sailing Charters at Nelson Sailing Center

If you want lake sailing, I've sailed dinghies in Lake Wallenpaupack for the last 10 years - about 2.5 hours north of Philly. There are lots of sailboats up there in the 22-27' range, but not many commercial charters. (There may be some low-key private charters - haven't really looked.) The lake is 14 miles long and up to 1.5 miles wide, with lots of coves where you can anchor for the day and swim. It's about 40' deep almost everywhere, so almost impossible to run aground. Sleeping overnight on the boat is supposed to be prohibited, but I hear people do it all the time. If you're going to be here for 3 years, you could consider buying a trailer sailor and taking it up there.

If sailing is really important to you, I suggest you move to a suburb in the direction in which you'll be sailing. If you want Barnegat, living in the Jersey suburbs will put you an hour away. If you want Chesapeake, move to Delaware County in PA (or even State of Delaware) and you'll be close to the bay. If you want to sail the Delaware near Philly you can pick almost anywhere to live.

However, be prepared to pay income tax - both to the State and a significant wage tax to Philly if you work in the city. The Philly wage tax was a very unpleaseant surprise when I first moved here (from Texas) 25 years ago.


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

You'll enjoy it RD.. the current when it's diagonal to your boat actually helps you on a tack. (called a ferry in canoe terms) Then there will be times when your sailing but not moving, as the wind current often run opposite. lol


----------



## CapnSantiago (Jul 17, 2007)

Thanks Everyone...I'll check out the various websites provided. As a follow up: 

How short is the sailing season?
I knew about the state taxes but what % is this Philly wage tax (does it apply to Lankenau where the actual job is)?


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Lankenau Hospital, is just outside Philadelphia, no city wage tax if you also live outside the city. If you plan on living in Philadelphia, and there are some good reasons to do that, then you will pay wage tax on the income from outside the city. I am self employed so pay the city a gross receipts tax and a net profits tax, which add up to more than I pay the feds.


I haul out some winters and stay at an inside slip some winters. I have sailed as late as the 1st week of December and as early as the first week of March.

January and February are just to cold for me. Most people splash April and May, with haulout in October.

Yes other locationss have better sailing areas and better destinations but I can be sailing in 30 mins most days, 1 hour if the traffic is heavy.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Denise
A few time I have managed to balance current on a flood tide across my full keel with the wind in the same direction as the current, to tack river bank to river bank and back on the same close haul. But no forward progress.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Rich
Delaware Bay is a lot cleaner than the Chesapeake. The Delaware has wilderness areas, salt marshes, bird watching, crabing and fishing.

Limited destinations for "entertainment", but a few quite creeks and rivers on the Jersey side, shallow water on the Delaware side.

Cape May canal scare the s**t out of me on a summer weekend, too many power boaters with huge wakes at the bay entrance for my little outboard powered boat.

As for the bugs, maybe my blood is not the preffered taste, but I have not had a problem.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

FYI, here are some tax rates:

Pa. State Income Tax 3.07% 
Pa. State Unemployment Insurance 0.08% 
City of Philadelphia Resident Tax 3.9296%
City of Philadelphia Non-Resident Tax 3.4997%

PA's income tax is a flat tax - virtually no deductions and no progressive rates. When I lived in NJ up to 10 years ago it was an almost-flat tax with almost no deductions, rates pretty close to PA. DE and MD are progressive tax rates at a higher rate than PA or NJ, but with lots of deductions - basically the same deductions as federal.

If you buy a home, DE and MD have reasonable property taxes, PA and NJ very high. DE has no sales tax. (If you buy a boat, don't think of registering in DE to avoid sales tax unless you really plan to keep/use it in DE. The neighboring states are wise to that.) So it's a tradeoff of different tax types in different states. For this reason, the states often do not get along very well and will sometimes deny reciprocity, which complicates things if you work in PA and live in DE. PA hates DE and will not offer income tax reciprocity - but they do offer tax credits that prevent some double-taxation. Interestingly, though, PA does get along with MD and NJ, so if you live in MD or NJ you would pay tax to your home state instead of PA. Despite this, Philly always gets their wage tax if you work in city limits. But I think NJ might give you somewhat of a break on their state tax if you pay the Philly wage tax. I don't know for sure because when I lived there I was working outside Philly.

Take all of this with a grain of salt, since I am not a tax professional - just a professional tax payer  . If this is critical to your decision, please consult with a real tax professional. But consider yourself lucky that you were warned - since I was not when I moved here.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh said:


> Denise
> A few time I have managed to balance current on a flood tide across my full keel with the wind in the same direction as the current, to tack river bank to river bank and back on the same close haul. But no forward progress.


And we call that sailing?  :laugher

I must say it is extremely disconcerting to be close hauled in a flood tide, pointing toward the Boeing facility, seeing the TS buoy 30° to starboard, while the GPS shows the same TS buoy 30° to port. (In other words, the current is pushing us 60° vs. where the boat is pointing.) And it's rather nerve wracking to know that continuing on that tack would push us up on the Little Tinicum sand bar.

All I can say is thank God for GPS! As a beginner "river rat," without that little "toy" on my pedestal guard I know I would have hit that sand bar by now.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

University of Pennsylvania sailing team, practice at Essington.
I touched the mud flat trying not to get to close, while watching the ballet.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

More from the scenic Delaware River. Billingsport NJ


----------



## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Whats a shame is the upper Delaware. I've been on canoe trips and it's beautiful. hard to believe there really are trout up there!


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Ulladh - Thanks for posting the great pics! It's a good reminder that there is some nice scenery along our part of the Delaware.

Your pics have raised a couple of "newbie" questions for me.

I have not been out while there were races underway. I think that Corinthian does them on Wednesday evenings, right? What are the rules of the road when a race course is marked off? Are you required to steer clear of the entire race course, or can you cut through the course as long as you're not interfering with the race? Obviously the river banks and currents create some limitations on how much you can steer clear, so I would hope that cutting through the course is OK.

Also, some people in my marina have been telling me about a great cove for anchoring/rafting right across the river. They say that there are mooring balls available to tie up, so you don't even need to drop anchor. Based on their descriptions, it sounds like it's the cove for Ron Jaworski's Riverwinds sports complex. Have you gone in there before? It's about a mile up river from Billingsport:

Riverwinds Golf Course, Thorofare, NJ - Google Maps


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Rhythm

If there is a race or just practice stay clear, Penn and Drexel both practice out of Corinthian. 
You can hug the edge of the Corintian or West End mooring field and be clear in 20ft at low tide, or the mud flat side good only at high tide.

The power boats give them plenty of clearance by using the mud flat side.

I have not been in the cove on the Jersey side between Mantua and Woodbury creeks, but worth checking with an eye on the depth sounder.

The Jersey side from Mantua Creek to National Park can get shallow rapidly outside the commercial anchorage in the Mifflin Range "Yellow" bouys.

I would suggest dropping anchor just outside the commercial anchorage and dinghy in.

Be careful when in the Mifflin Range anchorage or between the anchorage and the airport dock at slack tide. That is the time slot the tugs use for marshalling the barges.


----------



## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Rhythm
To clear the flat at Tinicum Island west end.

Clockwise from the up river channel; 
-sight a line between the power station twin stacks and the water tower at Thompson Point NJ, stay down river of that line.
-sight a line into Darby Creek so that the RR lift bridge is aligned with the I-95 bridge span, stay down river from that line.
-sight a line from the power station twin stacks to the the blue and white tanks visible on the Jersey side and use this line until past Corinthian.

This will keep you in at least 12ft at low tide.

I like dead reconing for the quests I have at helm, just tell them what to point the boat at.


----------



## sevent (Jun 18, 2009)

lot's of good info. But also check out Liberty Sailing Club Racing and Cruising J/Boats on the Delaware River Waterfront in Center City Philadelphia sailing club in Philly with almost unlimited access to J27s. What I do (and I am near Lankenau) is club sail in Philly and charter out of the Chesapeake as much as I can for long weekends. Great ports and anchorages all over the CH Bay. You can also join a "sailtime" in philly for a 36 foot cruiser on the Delaware River.


----------



## alacrity19 (Feb 26, 2010)

I live in south jersey and I trailer my boat. The delaware bay is busy with strong currents, but fun with alot to see. You will also learn alot. The chesapeake is the best sailing on the east coast. Chesapeake and delaware are connected by the 10 mile C & D canal. I think You'll realy like the area.


----------

