# Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?



## itsaboat (Sep 28, 2011)

My boat has horn cleats for the jib sheets but I am going to install cam cleats for ease and speed of tacking and trimming. I purchased a couple of Harken Cam-Matic 150s to install, but am not sure exactly where I want to put them. I don't want to remove the horn cleats, since that is how we attach the aft dock lines and might need them for many other reasons. However, that makes space to install the cam cleats a little tight. My main options seem to be 1) installing them between the winches and the horn cleats, creating a potentially tight situation or 2) or vertically on the coaming at a location that will not interfere with cockpit seating. 

I attached a couple of photos to illustrate the situation. Any suggestions?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

The lead from the top of the winch coils to a coaming-top mounted cam cleat would not be good.. you'd need a fairlead to keep the line in the cleat and you DON'T want that...

Inside the coaming/on the seatbacks would work best for you, but I'd orient each one in a position that provides a natural lead from the winch drum to the cleat.. I'm thinking that that might be at a bit of an angle rather than dead vertical.. it will also mean that the starboard one is mounted forward of the winch centerline and the port one aft (think about the turn coming off the drum from a clockwise wrap and run down the inside of the coaming.. Straight vertical will work but won't be the most 'natural' lead...)

Couldn't find an image so I drew one up; this would be stbd side:


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

Perhaps another alternative is to place the cam cleats aft of the horn cleats. You would do a single wrap of the tail and then through the cam cleat. This would keep your horn cleats available for dock lines and also avoid a cam cleat in the back for someone seated in the cockpit. 

Running the tail around the horn cleat would also assure the sheet is better lined up with the cam cleat and less likely to pop out.


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## Ritchard (Aug 15, 2011)

What about a clam cleat rather than a cam cleat, on a wedge to give it the proper angle, back near the horn cleat? They are faster and even easier than cam cleats.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

fallard said:


> Perhaps another alternative is to place the cam cleats aft of the horn cleats. You would do a single wrap of the tail and then through the cam cleat. This would keep your horn cleats available for dock lines and also avoid a cam cleat in the back for someone seated in the cockpit.
> 
> Running the tail around the horn cleat would also assure the sheet is better lined up with the cam cleat and less likely to pop out.


That would work too, but I think the winches are aft enough wrt to seating area than the interference won't be severe.. esp on the one side. Using cleats under the winch keeps them closer to hand, esp for someone on the end of the tiller...



Ritchard said:


> What about a clam cleat rather than a cam cleat, on a wedge to give it the proper angle, back near the horn cleat? They are faster and even easier than cam cleats.


YMMV, but I hate those things.. if the line's not the right size they slip, if they're plastic they can 'burn' out if they do slip and won't grab again. They are more obtrusive than cams esp since they need the wedge for a good lead...


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## Ritchard (Aug 15, 2011)

I love mine. I bought them the right size for the sheets, which didn't seem all that tricky to me. They are very fast and very "positive" to use; by that I mean you know when they're correctly seated. They grab - when there's a load on them, they are not releasing the line. The ones I bought were aluminum, so should last the rest of the life of the boat. As for being in the way, they are a heck of a lot less in the way than the teak horn cleat that was there before. I think in this scenario a clam cleat on a wedge is going to be cleaner and more functional than any placement you can think of with a cam cleat.


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## itsaboat (Sep 28, 2011)

Faster said:


> Inside the coaming/on the seatbacks would work best for you, but I'd orient each one in a position that provides a natural lead from the winch drum to the cleat.. ]


Yeah, that's along the lines that I was thinking. Thanks for the illustration. The only problem with that is the cams will be in the back of whoever is sitting in the cockpit. I can see someone inexperienced sitting down hard after a tack shift and getting a cam in the back. Do you think I could angle them aft enough to avoid this?



fallard said:


> Perhaps another alternative is to place the cam cleats aft of the horn cleats. You would do a single wrap of the tail and then through the cam cleat. This would keep your horn cleats available for dock lines and also avoid a cam cleat in the back for someone seated in the cockpit.


This would be great, and serve to align the sheets into the cams. It would be the optimal arrangement for single handing, but sailing with a crew would be different. The trimmer would have a hard time reaching the tail of the sheets behind the wheel.


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## itsaboat (Sep 28, 2011)

Ritchard said:


> I love mine. I bought them the right size for the sheets, which didn't seem all that tricky to me. They are very fast and very "positive" to use; by that I mean you know when they're correctly seated. They grab - when there's a load on them, they are not releasing the line.


I thought about clam cleats. The boat that I crew on racing Sundays has them. They work well, but the heel of my hand is always sore on Mondays from giving them a thump to make sure the line is seated. Probably unnecessary, but I can't help myself.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

itsaboat said:


> Yeah, that's along the lines that I was thinking. Thanks for the illustration. The only problem with that is the cams will be in the back of whoever is sitting in the cockpit. I can see someone inexperienced sitting down hard after a tack shift and getting a cam in the back. Do you think I could angle them aft enough to avoid this?


The port side would likely end up 'out of the way'.. the starboard one not so much, but even so do you get people sitting directly in line with the binnacle? that's about where the cleat may end up on the stbd side..

In any event, I don't think leaning against the cleat would be horrible, with any clothing on it may be hardly noticeable, in summer perhaps more of an issue. Your crew should be on the coaming or the rail anyway! 

Another alternative would be to mount your cleats on the outboard side of the coaming, the 'ramp' lead would probably be OK and the seating would be unobstructed, but it's a lousy reach to cleat and uncleat, esp when seriously powered up.

If you think the 'cleat in the back' is a big deal, then fallard's suggestion probably makes most sense.. As the helmsman you may have an easier reach for the release, and could assist the grinder in cleating once sheeted in... Not so great for steady trimming, but even then the trimmer probably has the sheet in hand....


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I like the idea of using the horn cleat as a fairlead. Simple, easy, and lets you use your existing equipment.


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## itsaboat (Sep 28, 2011)

Faster said:


> The port side would likely end up 'out of the way'.. the starboard one not so much, but even so do you get people sitting directly in line with the binnacle? that's about where the cleat may end up on the stbd side..
> 
> In any event, I don't think leaning against the cleat would be horrible, with any clothing on it may be hardly noticeable, in summer perhaps more of an issue. Your crew should be on the coaming or the rail anyway!
> 
> ...


All very good points, Faster. If we are doing any serious sailing, the crew and "rail meat" will be up on the coaming or forward on the rail. But sometimes against my most fervent wishes, there might be the less experienced crew member or two that happens aboard.

Do you see a reason that something like the attached photo wouldn't work? My drawing skills are not up to par, so I photoshopped it. The port side angle would be adjusted for a better angle off the winch, of course, but it would lead the lines aft a bit more.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

No reason why that wouldn't work.. Just slightly less than a full wrap on stbd.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

Mine are on the side of the coaming but straight out from the right side of the drum. they work OK and cleated by the winch grinder. when one person does the grinding and tailing, it would be hard to cleat at an angle, you would be trying to pull away to the side of the winch while trying to cleat and this would be hard.
pulling at 90 degree to the coming gives you the best leverage and support when heeled
the release can be done from any position


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## itsaboat (Sep 28, 2011)

overbored said:


> Mine are on the side of the coaming but straight out from the right side of the drum. they work OK and cleated by the winch grinder. when one person does the grinding and tailing, it would be hard to cleat at an angle, you would be trying to pull away to the side of the winch while trying to cleat and this would be hard.
> pulling at 90 degree to the coming gives you the best leverage and support when heeled
> the release can be done from any position


Good point Ovbd. I wasn't fully considering the leverage angle. Yours are placed in the middle of the cockpit seating as well. This might be the best approach. This way, the crew has a good angle to the cam cleat and if I am single handing I can still cleat off with the horn cleat near the wheel. It looks like you have a 15 degree angled riser for them. Do you think this is necessary/helpful?


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## msmith10 (Feb 28, 2009)

The best solution, also most expensive, is to get self tailers. Beyond that, I think you're better off with the horn cleats you've got. I used them with same setup as yours for many years. The advantage to a horn over a cam cleat is that you don't have to "pull through" the cleat. You just hook the line under the horn and the tension is off. With a cam, you've got to take "one more turn" with the winch as you're pulling the line through the cam. Sometimes that "one more turn" just isn't there. Also, releasing a short length of sheet in order to trim is much easier with your existing cleats. 
I think you'll have trouble getting a clean lead from the winch to the cleat on the side of the combing- it's going to rub.
Also, pulling down through that cam is a terrible angle to get any force.
Personally, I'd keep your current cleats in place and save up for self tailers.


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## blutoyz (Oct 28, 2012)

Off topic but wow...I think our boats are sisters. I have a US27 and the cockpit and hardware look identical. I thought about grabbing a couple of self-tailing winches from the consignment store but figure I will give it a season and see if it is an issue.

I think a little research on Pearson vs US Yachts is in order for me now (for curiosity's sake) with the similarities.


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## itsaboat (Sep 28, 2011)

blutoyz said:


> Off topic but wow...I think our boats are sisters. I have a US27 and the cockpit and hardware look identical. I thought about grabbing a couple of self-tailing winches from the consignment store but figure I will give it a season and see if it is an issue.
> 
> I think a little research on Pearson vs US Yachts is in order for me now (for curiosity's sake) with the similarities.


Yes, the 84-85 Pearson 27 was the same mold as the '81-83 US27 from what I can gather. Pearson bought it and made a couple of dozen at least (my hull is #24) over a couple of years. In 86 they switched to another design and still called it the P27 just to add to the confusion. Here is the thread I started when I first bought her: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...st-new-us-boat-1985-pearson-27-hull-24-a.html

There is one other US27 sailor on here, US27inKS, or something like that.

Have you upgraded any of the hardware on your boat? The horn cleats behind the wheel are just a little inconvenient to me but I am not ready to drop $1800 on self tailing winches yet. I would rather put that money into new sails.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Self tailers are your best option and will make you happier in the long run. Plus they are more expensive and that is how we, as boat owners, roll...  Make us proud and bust out another thousand.

Or, you could consider installing an inexpensive set of jam cleats where your horn cleats are (hopefully using the existing holes).

Then move your existing horn cleats aft for your dock lines.

Or, forward of the winches to make it easier for crew when tacking.

When I say "jam cleats", I mean the ones that look similar to horn cleats...


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

or move the horn cleats aft - with appropriate backing, and put the cams on blocks of teak to improve the angle.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Right now nobody (except maybe the helmsman) is likely to have to 'sit' on a coaming-top cleat... I think I'd keep it that way if possible. A cam cleat in the back once in a while is better than a horn or jam cleat up your you-know-what


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## rhr1956 (Dec 18, 2010)

Mine is done like Faster's diagram except that I mounted the cam cleat directly vertical under the tail end of the sheet where it comes off the winch. They work great and the sheet pops right out when you need it too.


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## rhr1956 (Dec 18, 2010)

itsaboat said:


> My boat has horn cleats for the jib sheets but I am going to install cam cleats for ease and speed of tacking and trimming. I purchased a couple of Harken Cam-Matic 150s to install, but am not sure exactly where I want to put them. I don't want to remove the horn cleats, since that is how we attach the aft dock lines and might need them for many other reasons. However, that makes space to install the cam cleats a little tight. My main options seem to be 1) installing them between the winches and the horn cleats, creating a potentially tight situation or 2) or vertically on the coaming at a location that will not interfere with cockpit seating.
> 
> I attached a couple of photos to illustrate the situation. Any suggestions?


Put the cleat right about here...


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

msmith10 said:


> The best solution, also most expensive, is to get self tailers. Beyond that, I think you're better off with the horn cleats you've got. I used them with same setup as yours for many years. The advantage to a horn over a cam cleat is that you don't have to "pull through" the cleat. You just hook the line under the horn and the tension is off. With a cam, you've got to take "one more turn" with the winch as you're pulling the line through the cam. Sometimes that "one more turn" just isn't there. Also, releasing a short length of sheet in order to trim is much easier with your existing cleats.
> I think you'll have trouble getting a clean lead from the winch to the cleat on the side of the combing- it's going to rub.
> Also, pulling down through that cam is a terrible angle to get any force.
> Personally, I'd keep your current cleats in place and save up for self tailers.


Or you could do both. It is definitely expensive (about $800 for both winches in my case, and both were upgradable). We had the cam cleats working for a while, but I replaced the winch top with self-tailing tops to make it easier while singlehanding. When I race with crew, they almost always prefer the simplicity of the cam cleats. Also- if you do much singlehanding, you may consider cross-sheeting, which would probably mean (besides just longer sheets, maybe) placing the cleats on the horizontal surface next to your winches. In that case, angle would be less important since the sheet would be running across the cockpit.. It would be a bit difficult to achieve tight trim because you'd be tailing from across the cockpit and would have to grind with one hand while tailing with the other...


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## blutoyz (Oct 28, 2012)

itsaboat said:


> Yes, the 84-85 Pearson 27 was the same mold as the '81-83 US27 from what I can gather. Pearson bought it and made a couple of dozen at least (my hull is #24) over a couple of years. In 86 they switched to another design and still called it the P27 just to add to the confusion. Here is the thread I started when I first bought her: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...st-new-us-boat-1985-pearson-27-hull-24-a.html
> 
> There is one other US27 sailor on here, US27inKS, or something like that.
> 
> Have you upgraded any of the hardware on your boat? The horn cleats behind the wheel are just a little inconvenient to me but I am not ready to drop $1800 on self tailing winches yet. I would rather put that money into new sails.


This will be the first season so no upgrades planned until I know what needs doing. This was bought as a "first" boat so I don't know if it will get any real upgrades anyhow. You never know though, the PO was so in love with the handling I may stay with her long enough to throw some dough into updates.

I do plan on lazyjacks, sternrail seats, and possibly a main halyard relocate with clutches prior to launch in May.

Thanks for the link, I will check out your original post.

Bill


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

I've moved on from a rather spartan catboat to a bigger boat with lots of bells and whistles (and self-tailing winches). For many years, though, I was a real Luddite for the 15 years I owned the catboat. ("Luddite" sounds better than "frugal" and a whole lot better than "cheap".)

The mainsheet attached to the 19 ft boom on the catboat was stopped around a horn cleat. No winch. Did that for 15 years and never considered anything fancier. We raced her for years and did a lot of fine tuning of the sail trim, too, so the bronze cleat stayed polished. 

Looking at the photos, I don't see a compelling need to upgrade your hardware if you are not so inclined. About the only "hardware" I added to my catboat was lazyjacks--and that was after getting caught in 30 kts and wondering how I could conveniently drop everything, including the 14 ft gaff, and keep the sail and me in the boat.


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## itsaboat (Sep 28, 2011)

rhr1956 said:


> Put the cleat right about here...


Thanks rhr. I am leaning toward this config right now. The port side cam will have to be positioned forward of the winch to keep the proper angle, of course. I'll head out to the boat Saturday (or tomorrow if I can manage to blow a vacation day) and dry fit the cam cleats to see how I like it.

I was approaching this from the angle of passenger comfort at first, but realized that was all wrong after Faster's helpful comments. If I install a cam cleat at a position that discourages sitting there, maybe I can finally stop having to ask someone to move their derrière from in front of the $#@% winch every time we tack.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

itsaboat said:


> Thanks rhr. I am leaning toward this config right now. The port side cam will have to be positioned forward of the winch to keep the proper angle, of course.


Carrying the wrap around like my initial picture showed will lead the port sheet to aft of the winch.. Pretty much where you're at in the pic above... Should work fine..


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## Ritchard (Aug 15, 2011)

itsaboat said:


> I thought about clam cleats. The boat that I crew on racing Sundays has them. They work well, but the heel of my hand is always sore on Mondays from giving them a thump to make sure the line is seated. Probably unnecessary, but I can't help myself.


I usually quickly press the line into the cleat with the tips of two fingers, then let the tension do its thing. If you feel compelled to thump the line into the clamcleat, maybe the cleat is undersized? My 9/16ths sheets fit easily and snugly into the very bottom of the cleat. I sailed the boat at least 60 outings/days last year, and had no slips when I was winching. Newcomers would often goof it up, but we feed them to the salmon.


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## sterilecuckoo58 (Aug 4, 2010)

Hi Itsaboat

What did you finally do and is it working out? I am in the same, er, boat and appreciate your having asked the question. I am thinking that, as with a rope clutch, you need to take the load off before coming out of the cam cleat. Currently I can jam the tail on the horn cleat after one wrap. But I am not so good at flipping that off and not losing the tension. 

Sterilecuckoo58
'70 Vivacity 24


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## rhr1956 (Dec 18, 2010)

sterilecuckoo58 said:


> Hi Itsaboat
> 
> What did you finally do and is it working out? I am in the same, er, boat and appreciate your having asked the question. I am thinking that, as with a rope clutch, you need to take the load off before coming out of the cam cleat. Currently I can jam the tail on the horn cleat after one wrap. But I am not so good at flipping that off and not losing the tension.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what you mean regarding "taking the load off before coming out of the cam cleat". I just pop the sheet out of the cleat and take the wraps off the winch when tacking. Takes about 1 second.


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## sailak (Apr 15, 2007)

Perhaps relocate the cleats and place the cam cleat where the horn cleat is currently.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

sterilecuckoo58 said:


> Hi Itsaboat
> 
> What did you finally do and is it working out? I am in the same, er, boat and appreciate your having asked the question. I am thinking that, as with a rope clutch, you need to take the load off before coming out of the cam cleat. Currently I can jam the tail on the horn cleat* after one wrap*. But I am not so good at flipping that off and not losing the tension.
> 
> ...


After one wrap of the winch? or after wrapping over the cleat? If you can't release whatever type of cleat you have without losing sheet tension you likely don't have enough wraps on the winch drum.

Our routine is: two wraps preloaded, hand tail until sheet loads up, add a wrap or two, winch/grind home and then cleat. With self tailers, simply feed the sheet after the extra wraps and then grind.

With enough wraps you should be able to easily hold the sheet tail by hand without losing ground.


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

She's a nice looking boat. You should buy her a pair of self-tailing winches.

Or cam cleats just aft of the seat backs. You will regret having those where you might lean back against them. You may need some rub strips on the cockpit corners.


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## sterilecuckoo58 (Aug 4, 2010)

That is what I'd expect to do, and you have confirmed it is so  I thank you
Now I need to review the thread and see where you put them (coaming wall or top)


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## sterilecuckoo58 (Aug 4, 2010)

Thank you RHR1956 - I like the location you showed further back in the thread and that's the approach I'll take.

Sailak - Moving the horn cleat is thinking further outside the hull than I was prepared for - thanks for reminding me that it ain't permanent. 

Faster - Currently I wrap twice on the winch, trim, probably add a third wrap then either hold it or wrap one and 1/2 times on the horn cleat - the sheet jams nicely between the horn and the first wrap - or a complete figure 8 looped for the quick release - all depends on the mood of wind, water and wench. While this works, disengagement from the horn cleat requires more consistent un-lassoing skill when I am disinclined to go to the leeward side. 

Aloof - That would be a serious upgrade - but there's self-tailers in the boatboneyard - perhaps when I am feeling flush later in the season (after other upgrades). If the coaming corner suffers, I have some sheet stainless to apply.

Thank you all


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

rhr1956 said:


> Put the cleat right about here...


If this is your present arrangement, and, if you want to keep your horn cleat, and avoid having to ask people to move every time you tack, you might consider re-locating the horn cleat on the outside of the coaming, and then installing the cam cleat where the horn cleat is now. You can buy or make teak wedges that elevate the cleat and angle it so that it will lead properly from the winch to the cleat, so that the cleat will grip it firmly.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

I haven't read every post, but there's another alternative. Replace your horn cleat with a jamb cleat. It's very similar to the horn cleat, but one side is narrower, and one wrap around it will hold the line. I have jamb cleats on my C&C 35, and they work great, even in a blow, even for racing and especially when sailing singlehanded. If you replace the horn cleat with a jamb cleat, then you won't have to move anything, you won't have hardware sticking your crew in the back, and you'll still have the cleat to use for docking.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Sailormon6 said:


> I haven't read every post, but there's another alternative. Replace your horn cleat with a jamb cleat. ......


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## sterilecuckoo58 (Aug 4, 2010)

Sailormon6 - Shoot, if it holds on a 35, surely it'll do on my 24... I like it


RT?R1956 - and a picture is worth an awful lot of words.... got it....

I don't think my cleat is turned, rather its aligned fore-aft, perhaps I should turn the jam cleat style and be able to release a sheet gently, in control, with finesse.... darn - daydreamin' again.

Thank you all again -


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## sterilecuckoo58 (Aug 4, 2010)

Sorry Faster - Thank YOU for the pic.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

If you have room to operate a cam-cleat 'straight' from a winch ..... your location of the cleat is dead-straight between you and the winch, consider a Harken 'trigger cleat' (mounted to an angled base). When pulled 'down' (hard) on the line, the trigger is engaged and the cam-cleat automatically fully opens No need to 'pull back' on a sheet and then release/disengage it from the cam-cleat jaws.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

It matters how the jamb cleat is mounted. I think it's supposed to be mounted with the open end away from the winch, and the narrow end nearer to the winch, but I'm not at my boat to refresh my memory. I've seen them used on boats as big as the C&C 44.

I just noticed that, when you do a google search, it appears that google is calling everything a jam or jamb cleat. In particular, a google search for "jam cleat" will produce photos of every variety of clam cleat, but it's hard to find an actual jam cleat, like the one Faster produced. Apparently, google's search engine isn't refined enough to use accurate nomenclature that recognizes the distinction between such things as jam cleats and clam cleats. Be careful not to let the weaknesses in google's search engine confuse you.


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

Your memory is correct. the jam cleat is mounted such that the line makes a 120 degree turn around the plain end of the cleat then the jam end. This makes the jump operate smoothly and securely. 

I'm surprised that those are not jam cleats already. That's old and proven technology. The proper size jam cleats may not be suitable for the proper size dock lines. But dock lines get no priority over running rigging on my boats. Dock lines can be secured in any inconvenient way.


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## sterilecuckoo58 (Aug 4, 2010)

G'morning all - what a way to start. A quick search for a pic and sure enough, the jam end is forward hence the starboard sheet must makes a 1-1/2 turns about the cleat, which is what I do now achieving the jam between the first wrap and the aft pointing horn. So if forward is the correct jam orientation, there is no gain in changing the cleats = less effort.

That also eliminates the immediate quandary of horn cleat orientation although the attached pic (SunnySandy's Marine Clipper '72) shows the forward horn oriented outboard while RHR1956's pic shows the forward horn oriented inboard.

I'll take a gander at the other sailboats on the dock this evening, doesn't mean much since they are all idiots like me who keep their boats in the water all winter so they could all have it bassackwards.

Thanks again


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

aloof said:


> I'm surprised that those are not jam cleats already. That's old and proven technology.


Yeah, they work well and have no moving parts, no springs, no cams, and nothing to wear out. I don't think they are fading into obsolescence because they aren't functional. I think it's because they're old technology and out of fashion. I searched for new ones a year ago, and could only find small ones. Too bad.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Guys, have you ever tried to release a jam cleat when a sheet/line is under severe load? .... and/or then need to 'snub' the outgoing line?


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

RichH said:


> Guys, have you ever tried to release a jam cleat when a sheet/line is under severe load? .... and/or then need to 'snub' the outgoing line?


Yes, and I've also tried to release a cam cleat when the sheet is under severe load. Both work fairly well, if you put enough wraps on the winch to reduce the load. If you don't, then neither works very well.

The trigger cleats that you mentioned earlier sound like an improvement, if you don't mind the price, and until the moving parts wear out.

I raced a 25' boat that I equipped with clam cleats, and they worked great, but each type of cleat has it's ideosyncracies. You have to adjust your practices to the different types of cleats.


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

RichH said:


> Guys, have you ever tried to release a jam cleat when a sheet/line is under severe load? .... and/or then need to 'snub' the outgoing line?


My Cal 36 had plain winches and jam cleats. Never a problem. The winch takes all the load. There shouldn't be huge load on the cleat. Plus, mounting the cleat in the proper orientation prevents the line from getting completely crammed into the jamb.

...assuming one has nice soft serviceable sheets of the proper size. Not 20 year old crusty Sta-set X.


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