# Tell me about 17' - 19' boats...



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

OK, I was heading down the path toward the 21' trailer sailors, but the reality of where I can park one in the near future makes it just too tight a squeeze. Even on a shorter boat, I am going to need to have the trailer worked on to make the tongue removable. But I can have a boat now within these restrictions! I will look at Ventures and I have a possible line on a local Slipper 17, which is probably as large as a 17' boat can be. I think some boats up to 19' might work, depending on actual size and profile. Mostly medium size lake cruising, some NC sound and/or ICW. I would like to carry 6 in a pinch (mostly as a ferry) but will usually only have 2 or 3 aboard. Give me some "love this", "hate that" and "be sure to check/consider _____", etc...

Thanks!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Do you like the West Wright Potters? They start at 14', but they make a 19' that's pretty nice too.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Catboats offer a lot of space for their length. If I am ever looking for a trailerable sailboat, that's what I'll be considering. They might be right for what you want. Most of the brands are listed here http://www.catboats.org/popular_lines/linesfra.htm


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The Potters seem to come in just below and just above what I am looking for; the 14/15 might be a bit tight for the occassional ferry of the family and their 19 seems to a legitimate 19, which is too big.
I want a sloop rig mostly for the experience for when I move up to a bigger boat (which is in my plans, but circumstances prevent that from being very soon).


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## sevseasail (Jan 15, 2007)

check ou the Cape Dory Typhoon. A 18'6" Loa that comes in two versions: daysailer and weekender.
http://www.capedory.org/specs/typhoon.htm

Good luck!

Here's one in NC: http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/...&spid=132&pbsint=&boatsAddedSelected=-1&ps=30


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

sevsea...Dittos on that...That boat gets my vote for the prettiest lines ever drawn. Someday I'm gonna buy and old one and spend a few years bringing her back to life just for the pleasure of it!


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## wescarroll (Jan 9, 2005)

Compac also used to build a very nice 16 foot pocket cruiser I think.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BTW, there are now hinged trailer tongues, that might do the trick for shortening the trailer.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailingdog said:


> BTW, there are now hinged trailer tongues, that might do the trick for shortening the trailer.


Yeah, I have seen those and would be happy to get one. But taking any trailer down to the local welding shop for the sleeve and pin trick will have less budget impact.


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## gigglingdolphins (Oct 17, 2006)

Arbarnhart,
Don't know if you have checked these out, 19' cornish crabber; 17' Norseboat explorer; 17' seaward fox, I know this is 16' but the selway fisher highlanders are nice to sail. good luck


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Giggles,

The Slipper 17 I might have a line on is the Seaward Fox. For some oddball reason, the 17 does not carry the standard name. It would be nice if that worked out. It is wide, stable and carries a fair number of passengers easily but supposedly still sails quite well. I am certainly not ruling out a 16 if it meets my other criteria (and there may well be tradeoffs).


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

I had a 1985ish Siren 17 that was fun. It only weighed about 650 with a 145 lb swing keel, furler, and porta-pottie. I can't really comment much on its sailing quality though since it was my first 'real sailboat' after retiring the home converted 14' wood and canvas sailing canoe.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

You should check out the Edel 540, Wegu 5.5 and Sandpiper 565. All capable little sailers with nice lines and plenty of room for their length.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

Let's not forget the O'day Mariner. 19 feet.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I just got confirmation that the Slipper 17 (Seaward Fox) is for sale and very near by, so I hope to look at it in the next couple of days. Any specific comments?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Good luck with the trip to see the Slipper 17.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Arbarnhart , I have downsized myself from the 41ft-er ( wife pregnant )to a sweet wee 15and a half ft Bristol Sea Star ,well thats what they tell me she is .I couldnt even find it on the net and I have no idea what year she is but its been a blast restoring her and she sails great . I dont know if I would put more than 3 medium people or 4 little tiny people on her at the same time . My suggestion is this , look at as many trailerable boats as you can stand before your "I need to own a new boatometer" blows up . Youll know her when you see her . Happy hunting let us all know what you get . Buy the way does anyone have any info on the Bristol Sea Star 15ft 6in Daysailor


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Check out an issue of Small Craft Advisor.


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## sevseasail (Jan 15, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> sevsea...Dittos on that...That boat gets my vote for the prettiest lines ever drawn. *Someday I'm gonna buy and old one and spend a few years bringing her back to life just for the pleasure of it! *


That's the plan.......


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd second Small Craft Advisor magazine, even though it doesn't focus solely on sailboats. It's an excellent publication, but can be a bit tough to find.


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## Zogumwesterly (Jul 24, 2007)

My vote is for the typhoon. My dad used to have a seasprite and it was a real charmer.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I am going to look at the Slipper 17, a 1985, this afternoon. He is asking $2700 but added it was negotiable rather quickly. That is pretty much right on the low NADA price. There is a trailer with title and a title on the boat as well. Here are his comments about condition:
_I have a new main that I have only flown 3 times. It really only needs 3 things - A hatch cover for the companion way. A new electrical panel(which I already purchased) I never sailed at night so I have never installed it. A repair to the sliding hatch. Someone prior to me wasn't careful when stepping the mast and damaged it a little bit. I have removed the loose bits and it just needs to have some resin and gel-coat applied to the area to fix it up._

That was in an email. I spoke to him to get the price and he also told me that the jib was fine, but not as new and a spinnaker is also included.

Are hatch covers available in common sizes or would I have to find the specific one? Any idea how much that might cost?
What sort of discount would you expect for the sliding hatch? It must not be too bad, since he apparently has left it that way while sailing.
The electrical panel doesn't seem like a big deal unless it was bought to fix a problem that might be something other than the panel.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

arbarnhart said:


> Are hatch covers available in common sizes or would I have to find the specific one? Any idea how much that might cost?


Does he mean hatch boards? Hatch boards for the companionway sit in place vertically and the sliding hatch comes over them. They can be made up pretty easily from wood or starboard. As far as the other questions, you will have to see when you get there.

When I was looking at boats to buy, I took copious notes and pictures which was good because they all kind of got jumbled together in my mind after a while. However, like a previous poster stated, when I saw the right one, I knew it right away.

I'm not sure how much you can negotiate from $2700. The condition of the boat was likely considered when setting the price. Usually when someone has a figure like that, they are thinking $2500 and asking a bit more so the buyer will come down to that.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I would highly recommend taking a notebook, pencil/pen, digital camera with you on your visit.... your memory is going to be faulty....and that will help you keep track of what the boat really looked like and what condition it was really in.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailingdog said:


> I would highly recommend taking a notebook, pencil/pen, digital camera with you on your visit.... your memory is going to be faulty....and that will help you keep track of what the boat really looked like and what condition it was really in.


I plan on that. I only have my camera phone with me, but it should be adequate. One of the main things I will do is measure the rectangle (trapezoid? the Slipper bulges in the middle) from the corners at the stern to the front of the wheels, the triangle from there to where the tongue is a single bar and the length of the tonge from that point. That way I can lay out a pattern in the intended parking spot tonight. I don't think there is a wider 17' or even 19' boat that I will consider, so this will be a good reality check.

Of course, there is the general "is everything here and working to rig and sail". I think so as he was taking the boat out recently and then got another bigger boat.

The potential for a minor bit of epoxy work doesn't bother me too much. I recently glassed the bottom of my Snark (it looks like hell, but that's because I decided not to fine sand above the water line; it will be left on top of the van in a motel parking lot and no one will take it  ) and I taped seams on a couple of ply boats I built in the past. It is a negotiating point though.

Wiring a panel I can do, but there is that nagging doubt in the back of my mind - what if a new panel doesn't do the trick?

The "hatch cover" is an unknown until I get a look. If it has to be a specific one, that could be an issue.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

OK, here is the deal on the Slipper...

It has a shoal keel. This particular one is not a swing keel or centerboard model; it is a pure shoal keel. The upshot of that is the cabin is amazing for a 17' boat with no trunk in it. The downside is a bit more draft all the time; the shoal keel is not a case for the swing keel; it is a real heavy metal keel. The trailer is almost 5' longer than the boat to give you launching depth (a lot of the swing keels get by with 3' extra).

There were small cracks on either side of the drain plug. He said they had always been there and seemed to cause no problem and the previous owner told him the same thing. I suspect there is water in the hull.

The hatch that has damage is the top one (slide away cabin roof for about the first 2', whatever that is called) and the missing one is the one from the cockpit into the cabin (the vertical one). Making one that seals well and removes and stows easily is not simple. He said he might make one out of Plexiglass (had he said Lexan, I would have more confidence; my kids would bust out a sheet of regular Plexiglass the first weekend, tinted or not).

The final nail was coming home and sketching out the measurements (with my kids' sidewalk chalk  ). The boat could barely fit, but the extra tongue length killed it. The front convenience wheel doesn't flip up, so if you move it back very far it will get dunked when you launch and its bearings aren't sealed well enough to do that in salt water too many times. So the "cut/sleeve/pin" trick to make the tongues shorter would require a replacement convenience wheel. The measurements filled up the possible area completely; if it were the dream boat, I could deal with that. But sadly, it isn't. The search goes on...


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## poltergeist (Oct 26, 2006)

*Too bad ... but good, too.*

Hey, Mr. Dink --

I've been watching your continued search with interest ... this one sounded like it had promise, and I'm sorry it's not going to work out. But look at it this way: the longer you look, the more discerning and informed you become, and the more problems you avoid, such as the storage one you're dealing with. I trust that when the time finally comes to jump, you'll be a lot happier a lot longer.

I can relate to the whole size/storage issue. My Scot fits diagonally in my garage with just four inches to spare, and it was very important to me that it live there during the winter. At least I can TELL people that I'm working on it. 

Keep the faith ... a great toy is waiting out there for you.

Kurt


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hey Mr Scot (OK, Kurt  ),

I am keeping the faith. I have my car top dink and I am taking it to the beach this weekend. We are staying near an end of Bogue Banks and at the very end of the island is a state park, with a beach that wraps around the tip so I can park in one lot and have about 270 degrees to choose from so I don't have to sail with a breeze out to sea. I kinda hope it is blowing out of the NE, which would force me to beat a mile or so over to Shackleford Banks, where there are wild horses and unspoiled beaches and then I would be able to run back. What has this got to do with the search? Just granting me patience is all. Yeah, I will sit in a tub with no back support and standing or moving around much out of the question and 2 hours will be a really long sail. But I will be sailing!

I started another thread. I still think a 17' Venture or Siren or ??? (there are other near clones) is the boat. There is a Siren in Richmond. I might make the trip to look at if it lasts a few days (listed on Craigslist). I might have to bite the bullet and look at open boats (or forward decks that offer storage only)also.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

> I had a 1985ish Siren 17 that was fun. It only weighed about 650 with a 145 lb swing keel, furler, and porta-pottie. I can't really comment much on its sailing quality though since it was my first 'real sailboat' after retiring the home converted 14' wood and canvas sailing canoe.


I had a Siren as well for a while. If I was going to get a smaller boat again, I would buy another one. Check out the owners association on Yahoo Groups. There are usually a couple for sale there, and lots of help and advice is available. http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/sirenowners_subgroup/


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## poltergeist (Oct 26, 2006)

Hey, Andy --

Well, have a nice weekend sail! You clearly have a bad case of the fever if you can visualize your future day sail that clearly. 

If you come up to Richmond to see the Craigs List boat, drop me a P.M. I'd happily take you out on Lake Anna in the Scot.

Kurt


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Lake Anna's a great lake to sail on... haven't been there in a while, but used to go out to a house out on a point with a huge dock there for barbeques. My boat would be a bit big for the lake though.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

poltergeist said:


> Hey, Andy --
> 
> Well, have a nice weekend sail! You clearly have a bad case of the fever if you can visualize your future day sail that clearly.
> 
> ...


What is it with you Scot guys, always offering free samples like drug dealers?  
The last couple of times I was at the ramp nearby, two different people practically dragged me over to look at their Scots and offered to let me crew some time. You're all trying to get me hooked - I'm on to you.  
They are a nice family boat, but a little too long for my parking spot and they hold their value a little too well...
But if I make that trip (doubtful; the Sirens seem to get snapped up pretty quick) I will PM you.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

LOL... I'm almost as bad... and have had a lot of people out on my trimaran...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The Plot Thickens , this story just keeps getting better , I would love to be there when you find the right one , I may be more excited about this new boat buy than you are at this point. As I said earlier just keep diggin in to looking at as many as you can before the "I gotta have her now blows up in the wallet of buyers remorse.Shes just around the corner, I can almost taste it. What a plethora of great input you all are on this quest for the ultimate daysailor . Again Happy Hunting

PS anyone got anything on the Bristol Sea Star 15' 6" ?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

My new quandary is an O'Day DS1 offered to me for $1K on a trailer. It would fit in my space, fit the people on it but doesn't have a "real" cabin (does anything this small, really?). An underdeck platform that a kid could lie on is possible adaptation; a camping toilet could be stowed easily enough but the mini cabin like structure is not large enough for someone to use that in privacy. I coddle my kids too much. The boat we had when I was a child had no motor, no shade and no facilities. I wish I could see an AMF Sunbird up close. I missed one that sold in Wilmington recently. I know I am trying to sneak a little of the boat I can't have yet (a real cruiser) into the boat I can have now, but there is also some practicality in it. the boys will enjoy it more if there is a "mini clubhouse" on board. If they get tired of sailing, having a place (even a very tight space) for them to do other things would help a lot. I could just make sure they don't have anything to puncture the hull or each other with and let them be. The girls? Well, oddly enough they like spending time with me and my youngest is actually showing real interest in sailing.
So I am developing a following? Bagger, you gotta get out more!


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## poltergeist (Oct 26, 2006)

*Hmmm. Sunbird.*

Hey, Andy --

A Daysailer for a grand sounds like it might be a reasonable compromise. I'd actually forgotten about the Sunbird, and just went and had a look ... could be the solution, too.

Gotta say, I admire your commitment to finding something that works for the whole family. If it takes a cuddy cabin that gives the boys a cave to hang out it, that's probably better than listening to them grouse. I've got a friend and regular crew whose daughter seldom left the v-birth of their small boat when she was a kid. I talked to her a couple of weeks ago ... she's now in her early 20's ... and she still remembers sailing with her folks as a great experience, even though she only saw the water getting on and off the boat.

Hang in there, man.

Kurt


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I would be more excited about the DS if it was a 2 and not a 1. The 2 is more like the Sunbird, only slightly longer. There are supposedly a ton of Venture 17s out there, but I haven't seen one pop up locally. I want to look at them also. The Siren owner has not replied to my email, but the ad is still up, so I have no idea of the status on that. The DS1 is not listed anywhere yet, so I have time to think on it and the more I do, the less perfect it seems, especially knowing that they make a sister model that I would probably wish I got instead. Small parking area, small wallet, big family - tough combination!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

These are great boats as well....

http://sailquest.com/market/models/edel5.htm


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