# Best sailboat upgrades?



## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Because my Pearson is my first sailboat, I decided to put off making any upgrades until I owned the boat at least five years. It's finally time to make some upgrades, and I'm wondering if I can get some feedback on my list.

Definitely want:

Lazy jacks with an integrated stack pack. Getting the main up and down with just me and the spouse and no autopilot is just not much fun. In particular, I'm thinking of this system here that includes a track in the mast. Wondering if anyone else has one and has feedback (Chesapeake Sailmakers/doyle,Annapolis,MD,Chuck O'Malley)
An autopilot. I've never used one, but everyone keeps telling me it is lifechanging when sailing short-handed. I've been worried about how useful it will be given that I probably won't be able to integrate it with the boats older electronics.
A new furler and fix to our single-line reefing system. Our jib furler no longer unfurls. We also have one of those single-line reefing systems where the lines run through the boom, and the lines are somehow fouled in the boom. We can still manually unfurl from the bow and even put in a reef, but obviously want this fixed. 
Maybe want:

A second anchor that is not a Danforth. Haven't had any problems with the Danforth in Chesapeake mud, but thinking second anchor (currently also a Danforth) maybe should be something else.
A canvas cover for the hatch to keep rain out.
AC. Probably a difficult upgrade with the size of my boat, but would really make sailing or even working on the boat in July/Aug more palatable.
Windlass. Again, might run into problems here with the size of my boat and anchor locker, might not be possible to add a windlass.
Stern rail seats and cockpit cushions. My cockpit is fine for two people, but gets really cramped when we take people sailing.
New dinghy. My Achilles LT-2 is mostly fine and fits most of my needs but is badly, almost dangerously, balanced if a single person is in it with an outboard (too much weight in the back of the boat). If only one person is going to shore, we row. 
Any other recommended upgrades? Any feedback on the above?


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Not a bad list.

As for anchors, you've noticed that Rocna, Manson Supreme, and Mantus are Popular. Not as strong as the Danforth in very soft mud, but generally very good on the Cheaspeake. Also Excel. Not Delta or Claw.

(I'm in Deale too! You might enjoy my blog. SailDelmarva)


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

I'd more the autopilot to the top of the list. It opens up the world of single-handing, as well as easier couples sailing (don't need to bug your spouse as often).


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

pdqaltair said:


> I'd more the autopilot to the top of the list. It opens up the world of single-handing, as well as easier couples sailing (don't need to bug your spouse as often).


I've heard this, but spouse disagrees. She wants the lazy jacks and stack pack first. Compromise is that we are going to do both in time for next sailing season.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

emcentar said:


> I've heard this, but spouse disagrees. She wants the lazy jacks and stack pack first. Compromise is that we are going to do both in time for next sailing season.


You will praise your autopilot 100x more than you will cus not having a stackpak!!!


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

(Also, any tips on how to hire someone good to install an autopilot are welcome. I'd rather have someone experienced install this but how do you find one?)


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I already had lazyjacks, a windlass, a working furler, and a windvane when I bought the boat, so our best upgrades have been (not necessarily in order):

• Enough solar/wind to basically be electrically independent without the need for dino-charging.
• (Corollary) A newer, efficient fridge/freezer.
• A new bimini for sun protection.
• Composting head.
• A new stove with working oven. We do a lot of baking, and cooking in general. 
• A collapsible boarding ladder that is easy to use and doubles as an emergency ladder. 
• A Rocna anchor (replaced the old CQR).
• Electric tiller pilot (used when not enough wind for the vane).


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Don L said:


> You will praise your autopilot 100x more than you will cus not having a stackpak!!!


Perhaps if you are always single
Handing that might be true. We got by for many years without any kind of autopilot because we were always double handed. My wife took the helm while I took care of the sails. When I was single handed I simply tied off the tiller.

When we upgraded boats our new boat came with both the stack pack and autopilot. I appreciate the stackpack literally every time we go sailing. It just makes mainsail handling that much easier, particularly given that the mainsail is so much larger than our old one. As for the auto pilot, after 2 years I still haven't got into the habit of using it consistently. Certainly it is convenient at times, and it is nice to let "Otto" do the driving if we are motoring for long periods, but when sailing I still prefer to have my hand on the wheel!

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hello,

So you have owned your boat for 5 years before making upgrades? That's amazing! I have a hard time waiting even one year.

Some more or less random comments for you:
You can easily make your own lazy jacks. Or you can buy a kit from a number of vendors. I installed lazy jacks on my boat. I don't love them. If I am single handing I use them for the sail drop. If I have even one other person it's faster to just drop the sail and then manually flake it. A friend installed the dutchman system on his boat (this is the one with fishing type lines in the sail. His works very well but is a lot more complicated. The system I have allows me to retract the jacks when the sail is down. This allows me to keep my standard sail cover. 

Autopilot is huge (for me). I am always either single handed or short handed. My typical crew (family members) don't like to steer. I don't like to steer. Ray (the name of my Raymarine evo 100 wheel pilot) only complains if he has to steer downwind in 'lumpy conditions.' Whether you integrate the AP into your plotter or not, the AP makes sailing a lot more fun (for me). Integration to your other electronics is a very small benefit (IMHO). Being able to raise and lower sail while pointed into the wind, being free to trim sails, being able to pay attention to things other than steering are all big advantages. 

I don't understand your comments on the headsail furler. You can't furl the sail? Do you hoist the sail and then drop it, fold it, and stuff it below every time you sail? If so, get that fixed immediately. What kind of furler is it?

Mainsail reefing - I used single line and double line systems, both with and without blocks on the boom. For me, I prefer a single line system, but only for the leach of the sail. On my boat, the reefing line is inside the boom. One end exits the rear of the boom. I have the line go up through the leach reefing cringle and then down to the boom, where it is tied to the boom with a bowline. The other end of the line is led aft to the cockpit. 
To reef the mainsail I
-Engage autpilot and go head to wind.
-Ease the main sheet
-Slack halyard
-At the mast I pull the sail down until I can get the reefing 'dog bone' onto the reefing hook on the boom. 
-I pull the reefing line until very tight
-Tension the halyard (a lot)
-Rock on

This process takes a minute or two.

When the single reefing line was run through the leach cringle AND luff cringle there was just too much friction to get a nice tight reef in the sail. By using the 'dog bone' and reefing hook for the luff I can reef much faster and easier.\

How much anchoring do you do, and what type? Do you anchor for lunch, for a night, for a week? Maybe just a newer, lighter anchor would be enough? It will be difficult and expensive to install a windlass. 

Good luck,
Barry


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## 508422 (Aug 26, 2018)

Cape Dory 30
Traveler off the cabin top and in the cockpit
Wheel to tiller conversion
2 speed self tailing winches
Remove head and install Sandbox with kitty litter. 
Lazy Jacks


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

BarryL said:


> You can easily make your own lazy jacks. Or you can buy a kit from a number of vendors. I installed lazy jacks on my boat. I don't love them. If I am single handing I use them for the sail drop. If I have even one other person it's faster to just drop the sail and then manually flake it. A friend installed the dutchman system on his boat (this is the one with fishing type lines in the sail. His works very well but is a lot more complicated. The system I have allows me to retract the jacks when the sail is down. This allows me to keep my standard sail cover.
> 
> Autopilot is huge (for me). I am always either single handed or short handed. My typical crew (family members) don't like to steer. I don't like to steer. Ray (the name of my Raymarine evo 100 wheel pilot) only complains if he has to steer downwind in 'lumpy conditions.' Whether you integrate the AP into your plotter or not, the AP makes sailing a lot more fun (for me). Integration to your other electronics is a very small benefit (IMHO). Being able to raise and lower sail while pointed into the wind, being free to trim sails, being able to pay attention to things other than steering are all big advantages.
> 
> ...


I considered making my own lazy jacks, but also really want the stack-pack and also the fast-track in the boom, because I feel like a real splurge after five years of wresting with the main.

Good to hear that autopilot integration into other electronics is a minor disadvantage. My crew also hates to steer (not sure I get that) and I hate being stuck steering the boat when extra hands would be good on the sails.

I have an Alado headsail furler. Supposedly unbreakable, but something is wrong: the furler works just fine when furling the jib, but can only be unfurled with someone sitting on the bow and manually moving the furler. We've tried reattaching the headsail, changing the halyard tension, everything a google search suggested and nothing works. I assume a bearing is bent, could be fixable but maybe not.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Re: anchoring. Mostly weekend overnights. We did take a longer trip recently and had my first sleepless night on the hook. I'd picked a fairly sheltered spot in the anchorage, but not sheltered enough, as it turned out when the winds picked up overnight. The Danforth did hold, and we didn't drag, but it got me thinking about how much trust I was putting in my anchor.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

Great discipline, most posters here are talking upgrades before they close the purchase. Like your style. 

Great comments above, everything depends on how you use the boat. The good news is you know how you use it after 5 years, so your upgrades are sensible for how you use it.

A quick comment on AC. We've got an AC in a 38 foot boat, but our thought was, this is an on the dock shore power air conditioner only. If not, you're really talking AC and generator assuming you don't have one and even more space. A small AC unit, shore power only, takes up a small cabinet, and makes a big difference. We find if we are on anchor or a mooring into the breeze, we can take it. On the dock however can be stifling and it can quell neighborhood noise when you sleep. 

Good luck with your upgrades.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

I don't know about discipline - truth is I spent all my savings on the boat and didn't have any left for upgrades! Plus it made sense to hold off a few years since I never owned a sailboat before and wasn't sure what upgrades I needed.

I was thinking shore power AC. I prefer anchoring to being in a marina, but this would at least open the option of stopping at a marina if it's going to be miserably hot. Every July I swear this is the last year without AC. It just never seems so urgent again in October or May.


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## Tanley (Aug 20, 2009)

Personally I'd fix the furler and reef lines first. Then I'd prioritize everything else based on what my wife preferred.



emcentar said:


> (Also, any tips on how to hire someone good to install an autopilot are welcome. I'd rather have someone experienced install this but how do you find one?)


An autopilot is a nice upgrade. For a boat this size, I assume you'll be looking at a wheel pilot. These are very straightforward to install and I'd encourage you to work through it on your own vs. hiring it out. It's a project that can be accomplished with basic skills/materials.

Good luck and have fun, the Pearson 28-2 is a very nice boat.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Fixing the furler and reefing is definitely first. It was just listed last as it's really more maintenance than upgrade, although I'm going to talk to the riggers about running the reefing lines outside the boom if possible and not too expensive.

I'm happy to winterize my boat myself and do basic engine and systems maintenance, but I'm pretty self-aware about the extent of my DIY skills, and while I'm sure I could install the autopilot after a weekend of swearing, I'm also pretty sure I'll screw it up just enough to shorten it's lifespan by a few years.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

^ I had a boat fire caused by what appeared to be (according to the marine electrician I hired to repair the damage) a mistake in a DIY electrical job by a PO, was extremely grateful to be in the slip when it happened, it's made me cautious about messing beyond my abilities.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

emcentar said:


> Fixing the furler and reefing is definitely first. It was just listed last as it's really more maintenance than upgrade, although I'm going to talk to the riggers about running the reefing lines outside the boom if possible and not too expensive.
> 
> I'm happy to winterize my boat myself and do basic engine and systems maintenance, but I'm pretty self-aware about the extent of my DIY skills, and while I'm sure I could install the autopilot after a weekend of swearing, I'm also pretty sure I'll screw it up just enough to shorten it's lifespan by a few years.


 Knowing you limitations is smart. But if you really get into sailing, specifically cruising, you will find...
a. There isn't a mechanic around.
b. You can save serious money by learning a few crafts.

BTW, I had a small electrical fire on my last boat, caused by some wonky wiring the PO did and then hid under carpet. We were about 40 miles offshore at the time, so it got our blood pumping. I did a lot of wiring inspections after that. The factory work was top notch, but a few of the add-ons were awful. Electrical work is one craft where you don't muck about.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

I haven't read all the posts. But I get the sense that you have already prioritized the fixes or upgrades. You obviously need to fix the furler. The wife wants a stack-pack. As ShockT pointed out, if you don't single hand a lot, the Autopilot might not be as critical. For me, doing alot of solo sailing it's essential. You don't need it to integrate with anything, as long as it can hold a course. One thought I have for your Dinghy, is to get a tiller extension for the outboard ( and maybe fabricate a seat) that will allow you to sit more forward when you're solo, to balance the weight better.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

The 28 is on the edge of benefiting greatly from these single handed options... but I like your list. I nearly always solo sail my 32. Things I really appreciate?
My wheel pilot
Roller furling
VHF with RAM mike at helm
Inboard!

Things I think I'd like to try?
Stack pack (but I'm deeply worried about the performance hit - I do race).
Navigation in a pod (my lake has a bunch of weird places where depth is shallow enough for me to run aground, but doesn't have shoal marks on it).


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## danvon (Dec 10, 2012)

Everything you are proposing makes sense. I'd fix the furler immediately or even sooner. Not being able to get a sail out quickly can be dangerous. I had the motor die just as we were about to go through a drawbridge in a narrow canal a few years ago and was saved because we were able to ge tthe jib unfurled in a few seconds and keep the boat moving. Get the reefing sorted out too - you want to be able to make that work quickly in a blow. 

As to the mainsail system, we have a track system similar to what you showed and it is great to be able to drop the main in a couple of seconds. Use lazy jacks instead of a stack pak but that's a personal preference thing. The big thing is getting the friction out of the system. If your wife wants a stak pak it probably makes sense. Spousal harmony was half the reason I added our windlass but now I can't imagine not having it.

Tillerpilot is fantastic for any sort of long motoring segment. Adding that is not a huge job as it really involves just getting one set of wires to the right place. Don't know what kind of state your electrical system is in/what POs* have done with it but if you have an extra spot on your panel it would be easier. If you had an electrician do the wiring the rest is really easy. Of course, if you have a wheel instead of a tiller it may be a totally different situation.

If you anchor much and can find room for a windlass you will love it. There are a few threads here about adding one to a small-ish boat (one just the other day). It really depends on how deep your anchor locker is. And you will not regret switching to a new-gen anchor. I feel way way more secure on the Rocna.

Lastly you should take a good look at how the stern rails are mounted before adding seats. Might need to beef that up depending on how Pearson did it. 

Sounds like an adequate ilst for an off season Have fun!


* as an aside, in the British car world the usual term is "DPO". Sailors are apparently more forgiving.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

SHNOOL said:


> Things I think I'd like to try?
> Stack pack (but I'm deeply worried about the performance hit - I do race).


The stack pack and lazyjacks can be set up to be retractable. The jacks can be slacked off and taken forward to the mast and the stack pack can be rolled up and lashed or strapped to the boom so neither will have any affect on the sail.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


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## sesmith (Jan 24, 2013)

For sail handling, I prefer the Dutchman system on our boat better than the lazyjacks I've had on previous boats. A simple sail cover is all that's needed, then, and it doesn't hold rainwater. The boat next to us one year had a stack pack and I watched them dump water from it before every sail (rather than be surprised during).

The fixes for your reefing and furler should be pretty easy to sort out, so I'd look at that first.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

You should be happy with Chesapeake Sail Makers version of the stack pack... He made mine and its going on 6 years old and looks as good as new.

An electric windlass was my favorite upgrade of late but I think you would be just fine with a manual one... But I must say I should have put the electric one on the first year.

Check Defender Marine for sales on dingy and motor sales... I think one is going on now.

Cushions would be high on list... Comfort equals less fatigue which could also be considered a safety aspect.

Otherwise your list seems very reasonable. Happy spending hahahaha


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I would say the most mission critical upgrades for my boat were:

roller furling
below decks auto pilot
electric windlass
nav electronics (plotter. radar, ais)

other important upgrades were:
Dutchman
solar panels
batteries (8D AGM) x2 + optima start
engine drive refer/frezr
forced air cabin heat
groco head
cockpit cushions
secondary winches (upgrade primaries)


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## Salty Cracker (Jul 8, 2020)

MaxForce said:


> Traveler off the cabin top and in the cockpit


New sailor question... why? 
I've only been on a few boats and they were all on the cabin top. I've seen some placed right in front of the companionway and that seemed like it would very obtrusive.



MaxForce said:


> Remove head and install Sandbox with kitty litter.


What's the punchline? I think I might actually do this if I always sailed alone.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Salty Cracker said:


> New sailor question... why?
> I've only been on a few boats and they were all on the cabin top. I've seen some placed right in front of the companionway and that seemed like it would very obtrusive.
> 
> What's the punchline? I think I might actually do this if I always sailed alone.


From a performance perspective having the traveler in the cockpit is better because the further aft the mainsheet attaches to the boom the more mechanical advantage you have and the easier it is for the helmsman to make mainsail adjustments. You will see the traveler in the cockpit on most race boats. Cruising boats tend to have them on the cabin top because they want to keep the cockpit clear. Mainsheet and traveler pose a hazard particularly if you have guests on board.

My last boat came from the factory with the traveler on the cabintop and the previous owner moved it into the cockpit. I ended up moving it back to the cabin top because it was to dangerous with my toddler in the cockpit.

As for the litter box thing....I hope he was joking because that's just weird!

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


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## cdreid (Oct 17, 2020)

SanderO said:


> I would say the most mission critical upgrades for my boat were:


Can i ask how the panels worked out and if you use any other kind of power generation like wind or tide?


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

cdreid said:


> Can i ask how the panels worked out and if you use any other kind of power generation like wind or tide?


My boat is never at a dock except for fuel and winter in water storage. The 2 55watt panels were added a few yrs after I got the boat and kept the batts topped up while I was home and the boat sat at the mooring. They were still working fine until one of the cable got ripped off in a recent hurricane when I did not get out and remove them to a more secure location.
As I don't have a 12v refer... these are really a trickle charge for the batts. They were / are super!


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## 508422 (Aug 26, 2018)

Salty Cracker said:


> New sailor question... why?
> I've only been on a few boats and they were all on the cabin top. I've seen some placed right in front of the companionway and that seemed like it would very obtrusive.
> 
> What's the punchline? I think I might actually do this if I always sailed alone.


SCHOCKT, I liked your reply and you probably gave a better explanation than I have. 99% of the time my wife and I are by ourselves. With guest, they have to be aware and willing to be active or it is a pain to keep moving them. At that point we will usually put it in the middle and just let out the main sheet. With a small child it could be a trip to the ER.

Obsolete traveler car, on a steeply curved track. Very heavy made to bridge the hatch, short wife could not see over it. It made a dodger installation more complicated. Control line only came to one side of the cockpit and you had to help it to move. My wife is much more comfortable sailing in higher wind if she can just reach over and let the main over to sit up a little more. Now we have a modern Harken with control line ends. We have a cutter so the boom is long and the traveler is in the back of the cockpit. It also has a greater leverage on the boom.

SCHOCKT, that is what we call it, more like a composting head that we don't let compost. 
We tried the PORTA-POTTY and they just don't work on a sailboat. Their capacity is very limited due to healing. What a mess they can make. Salt water and waste makes a terrible smell for me with the best perfume in it. And when they get plugged.......my job!

Sandbox, LOL built into the same spot as the head. Has seat and top but a lined bucket inside with kitty litter to keep it dry and fresh. Does not plug up, does not stink, does not run over. Dispose of like cat litter.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Thanks everyone so much for your feedback. This is my first set of real upgrades for my Pearson (with the exception of a bimini I added after the first year) and we went back and forth over what should be a priority vs. put off another year. So I've listened to everyone's feedback with great interest - it's a lot of money, I want to be sure I've prioritized the right things.

To the poster who said to get the furler fixed right away, I'm already regretting waiting this long. First we thought we could fix it ourselves. Then we wanted some time to see if we could fix the reefing problem ourselves, or if we should also have the riggers look at that. But it's been a real bummer not to have a working furler, we've mostly been motor sailing with the main alone most of fall because wrangling with it on the bow is a pain. I hadn't even considered the safety factor but that's a good point too.


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## laxlife (Apr 21, 2018)

What size Pearson? Chuck O’Malley is awesome and I think a stakpak saved my marriage. Furling Genoa is also critical. Anchor? I’ve sailed on the bay for 50 years and a properly sized Danforth has never dragged on the Chesapeake with proper scope deployed. Pass on the anchor upgrade but have two anchors. Autopilot? Hell yes. Get the rudder position sensor as well as it increases the drive motor’s efficiency 100%. A/C? It’s $9k or so and I am happy I added it to my 36 footer. It’s limited to the dock but mine runs 24/7 and so I have no boat smell below. When I arrive and open the companionway it is welcoming not repelling. And don’t overlook the heater option for early spring-late fall sailing pleasure. My AC unit has made the cabin a nicer place to visit when the boat is in the water. Single line reefing? Chuck O’Malley can help here too. Sailing with confidence requires the ability to shorten sail single-handed. Check out the Siren Marine remote sensors too. They are an easy DIY upgrade and provide great peace of mind on and off the boat.


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## cfinn (Jun 30, 2020)

MikeOReilly said:


> I already had lazyjacks, a windlass, a working furler, and a windvane when I bought the boat, so our best upgrades have been (not necessarily in order):
> 
> • Enough solar/wind to basically be electrically independent without the need for dino-charging.
> • (Corollary) A newer, efficient fridge/freezer.
> ...


Hi Mike,

What kind of fridge/ freezer did you go with? And where did you mount the ladder? Thanks!


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

cfinn said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> What kind of fridge/ freezer did you go with? And where did you mount the ladder? Thanks!


We installed a Nova Kool LT201 with the RT4 (wrap around) ice box. We went from a steady 7 amp draw on the old refer to now about 4 amp periodic draw.

We mounted our ladder on the side deck opposite the companion way where our normal boarding opening of our lifelines. It's a ladder from Scandia Marine: Marine Ladders - Scandia Marine Products. They've gone through some ownership changes (I think), but appear to be selling the boat ladders once again. Awesome product.


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## Aquarian (Nov 8, 2010)

We had a Mack pack stack pack on our last boat. Intentionally went with lazy jacks and sail covers on our current boat. Our current lazy jacks are set up to be moved to the mast when raising the sail (no batten issues) and to prevent chaffing on long downwind sails. Couldn't do that with the stack pack. The stack pack also held water and needed to be emptied after each rain.
Love our autopilot, and furled headsail. If I had to choose between the 2, I'd take the autopilot for distance sailing. For day sailing I'd take the furler.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

I regularly single hand my Cal 33. What makes that easy is autopilot, main with Dutchman system, double reefing lines lead back to cockpit, and furling jib. Some love their lazy jacks, but I have become a huge fan of the Dutchman system. Automatic flaking and sail stays on the boom when reefing.


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## JohnBPrice (Aug 10, 2014)

All these suggestions are great, fix the safety issues with the sails, get the stack pack because that's what you "really want". Lazy jacks alone are fine but every time you look at them you will think "I wish I'd gotten the stack pack too." You will definitely appreciate an autopilot even if it's a self contained compass only. Steering becomes a simple matter of pushing a button every once in a while. If you get one with with NMEA input, you can always integrate when you need to replace your electronics. By the time you NEED wind steering, it's probably time to consider a wind vane.
I'd reiterate solar panels. Having an abundance of solar power is really nice when you don't have to worry about battery charge any more.
A couple of things people haven't mentioned. Fixed cabin fans. These really help, are fairly cheap, and are almost as good as air conditioning.
Upgrade your cabin lights, if they are older incandescent they are probably too dim and still take too much power. You can easily replace the bulbs with LEDs. Get the soft white ones if you hate the blue glare. If you haven't done so, get a pair of gloves just for hauling the anchor. Oddly enough, it makes a big difference and makes the job much more pleasant.


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## svmagickingdom (Jul 23, 2014)

emcentar said:


> Because my Pearson is my first sailboat, I decided to put off making any upgrades until I owned the boat at least five years. It's finally time to make some upgrades, and I'm wondering if I can get some feedback on my list.
> 
> Definitely want:
> 
> ...


My CSY 44 came with an autopilot- it is number 1 on the list- it makes things much more convenient like being firmly into the wind for raising and lowering sail. Integrated with electronics not much of a benefit- what is great is tacking- just put in degrees to tack and it does it- no more turning the wheel manually- it's a 1 person tack 
Jib furling- get it fixed- makes life much easier- mine came with a Profurl- I've had the boat over 25 years and it works fine
Lazy jacks- I had them along with full battens and a sail cover- decided 20 plus years ago to make life easier so I replaced with behind the mast roller furling- another Profurl- I can reef both sails if needed- I also needed a new main at the same time- just replace that main with a new one
Anchor on the Chesapeake- Danforth- bigger the better in mud- I have a Plow which just sits there
Sailmaker on Cheasapeake: Jenkins Sails- he's on Kent Island, MD- he came to me in Caimbridge- wonderful person- he ran the sail maintenance at Naval Academy for many years- he beat everyone on price and his sails are made in the USA
Electronics- Midshore Electronics, Cambridge MD- Frank the owner, Greg manager- I've dealt with them 40 years- they say what they will do and then do it- stand in back of work- not the cheapest and not the most expensive
As far as the dinghy- get a tiller extension- you can now sit farther forward nd balance it with one person or with two pwoplw both sit forward on opposite sides- how big is your outboard?
Full cockpit cushions- unless you are willing to pay for custom cushions, go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy cushions for a lawn chaise lounge- if you want them custom made call Wendy Upholstery in Cambridge-


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

laxlife said:


> What size Pearson? Chuck O'Malley is awesome and I think a stakpak saved my marriage. Furling Genoa is also critical. Anchor? I've sailed on the bay for 50 years and a properly sized Danforth has never dragged on the Chesapeake with proper scope deployed. Pass on the anchor upgrade but have two anchors. Autopilot? Hell yes.


My boat is a Pearson 28-2. It's my 'starter' boat, but I got her for my 40th birthday so I'm still another decade from the 'retirement' boat. We did consider whether or not to upgrade the boat itself instead of just the sail systems and electronics, but I do love the Pearson and finally feel like I understand most of her systems, and it doesn't really make sense to get a bigger boat when our main problem is we just don't get out enough. So instead the plan is to upgrade her, with the goal of making it easier to sail short-handed and single-handed. Then hopefully we will get out more.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

emcentar said:


> My boat is a Pearson 28-2. It's my 'starter' boat, but I got her for my 40th birthday so I'm still another decade from the 'retirement' boat. We did consider whether or not to upgrade the boat itself instead of just the sail systems and electronics, but I do love the Pearson and finally feel like I understand most of her systems, and it doesn't really make sense to get a bigger boat when our main problem is we just don't get out enough. So instead the plan is to upgrade her, with the goal of making it easier to sail short-handed and single-handed. Then hopefully we will get out more.


It sounds like you are on the same trajectory we were, we are just further ahead. We had an inexpensive boat with basic systems for many years, and only recently moved up to our retirement boat, even though I'm not retired yet. (I need the income to get the boat set up the way we want before I can retire!)

Definitely prioritize the things that make sailing safer and more enjoyable, and live without the luxuries until your next boat. You don't want to sink too much money into an old boat. Better to save it for the next boat.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

I do like a traveler in the cockpit for solo sailing, however, I don't want to lose the passenger space. I was very non-committal about the whole affair, so instead I rigged this all up, and have my traveler controls run to blocks behind my aft winches, the aft winches are mainsheet (starboard) and vang (port). So I have full mainsail controls from behind the wheel. Its not perfect, I'll admit that. It DOES work though. On any one trip, I can reroute the controls to their original positions (or sell the boat with things in original places).

I guess what I am saying is I agree with Schock, that my ideal place for traveler is right in front of the helm, but getting controls to where you can use them, is a good second best option. The companionway would work but the inconvenience going below, and it not being easily within reach (maybe better the shorter the boat though), would make it the least appealing option.

I do race my 32 solo. The C&C 32 is not quite a racer, and not quite a cruiser. Rating is about the same as a J24.


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

This is a pure convenience item, but I switched out my old masthead anchor light / tricolor fixture for a new LED unit with a built-in photocell. Dadgum it’s nice knowing the anchor light is going to be on if I get distracted with something onshore and don’t make it back to the boat before sundown!


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## wbjr (Jul 2, 2011)

I have had a 1987 Pearson 27-2 for six years on the Chesapeake, now in the shared care/custody of my son. It is very much the same boat as yours, with a one foot smaller cabin. However, Discovery has a tiller not a wheel. I single hand often, and my son does as well. The head sail roller furler is key to enjoyment. The main is small enough to handle without extra stuff.

My favorite upgrade was replacing the traveler, originally a Lewmar slide, with a Harken mid sized system. Bar none, my favorite upgrade, though the upgrade was forced when we blew out the lewmar in a storm on Eastern Bay.

We have no lazy jacks or stack pack, and it has been occasionally difficult especially in wind over 23kts. My "new" boat just received a Chuck O'Malley/Chesapeake Sails stack pack and refreshed lazy jacks in June. The system is well made, and Chuck is great, not to mention, local to you. 
Chuck suggested a small Harken block (40mm air) on the reef dog bone to make the in boom single line reefing smoother. I liked it enough on the "big" boat to put one on the Pearson 27-2. It cuts down friction. The cringle is not really intended to have a bare line pass through it at the mast, and the dog bone is little better. This is a $30 upgrade, hopefully in your budget. 

We have no autopilot. Have one on a Catalina 34, and use it occasionally, but rarely unless a long motor centric trip. Sail balance on the Pearson is pretty easy, and while we lock the tiller, you can put friction on the wheel. 

AC - personal preference. Not mine in such a small boat. Other P27 owners carry a window unit, left in the starboard birth, and stuck in the companionway when in a marina. A towel or blanket above it keeps most hot air/humidity at bay.

The Danforth/Fortress (F11) anchor has served us very well, sets quickly, and fits in the tiny anchor locker. The old claw does not set well, does not fit in the locker and since dragging, we ignore it. You may do well with a new style, but will have to extend the anchor roller, or store it below which is tough when single handing. Garhauer makes these. 

Pearsons of that vintage have a small cockpit. Great for single handing. Bad for marina entertaining. They are not barges. The admiral wanted a nice size cockpit to get out of my way when sailing.

You have a great boat for the area. 

Bill
C34; P27-2
Magothy River, MD


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## BaysideLAW (Oct 17, 2020)

emcentar said:


> Because my Pearson is my first sailboat, I decided to put off making any upgrades until I owned the boat at least five years. It's finally time to make some upgrades, and I'm wondering if I can get some feedback on my list.
> 
> Definitely want:
> 
> ...


I've sailed a Morgan Out Island 28 (1974, so a little older) from the time I was 14 until last week (~40 years). We put a fair number of upgrades in over the years and considered many of what you're considering. Our replacement boat, acquired ~1 year ago, has some of these items, so with that as my perspective, I'd offer this:

Lazy jacks and stack pack have allowed the mate and I to be much more flexible in responding to changing conditions. Not only is dropping the main super-quick without having a mass of canvas suddenly blocking the view, but raising it doesn't entail either (a) bouncing from mast to boom for sail ties or (b) a mass of canvas piled on deck.

Autopilot is huge. Overnight sails are less arduous. I don't feel like I'm bossing the mate around asking for things (beer) to be brought up while I steer. We can concentrate on other tasks. For a brief bit, the A/P was not integrated into the chartplotter, but was still incredibly useful to just set a simple heading and walk away for 5-10 minutes at a time. I could live with that indefinitely.

I'm not sure which would be worse: a jib furler where I had to fight to deploy the sail or one where I had to fight to furl. Obviously more a fix than an upgrade, but I would probably have that at the top of my list, right alongside of some solution for reefing the main. I'm not a fan of hidden lines though for just the reason you've encountered.

For a second anchor, I like the Manson. Particularly because it's pretty easy to break down and stows compactly. It also holds extremely well in the bottoms we encounter around Florida. We have the Manson as our primary and a Fortress as our secondary. (FWIW, in the St. Johns River where we spent most of our time sailing, the bottom is often a foot or two of silt atop a couple feet of soft mud. We used a Bruce claw, 22 lb, with 30' of 5/16" chain and 1/2" nylon three strand; we never drug.)

Canvas to cover the foredeck (and hatch) was marvelous. Keep the FL sun off the deck and still allow some breeze. A fairly inexpensive way to keep cool(er).

We considered A/C on the 28. We have A/C on the new one (35'). As others have noted, it's great in the marina where power is available and just occupies storage space when under way or at anchor. For working belowdecks in the hot months (everything not Jan or Feb?) on the 28 we used a small, $100 window unit in the companionway rather than a permanent installation. Getting up and down was a little more cumbersome, but when we left the dock, we could leave the A/C in the car. You don't mention it--maybe you already have it--but we ultimately decided that if we were going to install freon & a condensor anywhere, it would be in the icebox. New boat has it and it is a game-changer. The first mate still hears the angels sing every time she opens it and can get things out without chipping ice.

Considered a windlass on the 28; have one on the 35. We could have fit a horizontal unit (motor is abovedeck), but as noted, most of the rode is 1/2" line, so it wasn't too bad to lift. In fact, on our last night at anchor on the 28, the Admiral insisted that since weighing anchor had been her job all along, it would be her job at the end. Gloves made it much better. If it were an all-chain rode (what is on the 35), I'd move the windlass up to right before the autopilot. Maybe before the stackpack.

On the 35, the Admiral's favorite spot is the stern rail seat. Custom cushions are on our upgrade list, but the square Type IV throwables work damn well for the money. Having room for guests is the best part of the larger boat, so anything to increase room gets pushed up high on the priority list.

As for the dink: we had an 8' Walker Bay (hardshell, no tubes) with a 2hp Yamaha. To address the weight distribution, I kept a 3' piece of stainless pipe to slip over the tiller arm so I could sit in the middle seat. Throttle was a lever on the head of the outboard and there is no reverse gear, so my minimalist solution may not be applicable. (Truth be told, because she's a hard shell, I often just lock the motor centered and lean from one side to the other to steer. It makes me feel a little like I'm surfing again.)

If we weren't planning on going far afield and having adult guests for a week at a time--if it were just going to be the wife and I tooling around up and down the coast--we'd have kept the 28, potentially indefinitely. It was enough for two, just a little too small for four.


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## danvon (Dec 10, 2012)

bigdogandy said:


> This is a pure convenience item, but I switched out my old masthead anchor light / tricolor fixture for a new LED unit with a built-in photocell. Dadgum it's nice knowing the anchor light is going to be on if I get distracted with something onshore and don't make it back to the boat before sundown!


LED anchor light is actually more than a convenience item. It's the one thing that is def going to be left on for long periods of time when out cruising and using an incandescent is just a wasteful power drain (say 10W = ~.8 A = 8-10 AH overnite). LED is a tiny fraction of that. Also, the new white LEDs are MUCH easier to spot at a distance than the yellowish incandescents. It's very easy to pick our boat out from a distance in an anchorage.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

emcentar said:


> (Also, any tips on how to hire someone good to install an autopilot are welcome. I'd rather have someone experienced install this but how do you find one?)


If you have a tiller, installing a tiller pilot is a reasonable DIY job.


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

danvon said:


> LED anchor light is actually more than a convenience item. It's the one thing that is def going to be left on for long periods of time when out cruising and using an incandescent is just a wasteful power drain (say 10W = ~.8 A = 8-10 AH overnite). LED is a tiny fraction of that. Also, the new white LEDs are MUCH easier to spot at a distance than the yellowish incandescents. It's very easy to pick our boat out from a distance in an anchorage.


Amen that! I don't have any lights left that haven't been converted to LED....

The part that I was thinking was a luxury / convenience was opting to pay the additional $5 or $10 for the Photocell option that gives you the automatic in at dusk off at dawn operation so you don't have to worry about getting back to the boat before dark or not remembering to turn the light off until lunchtime


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

wbjr said:


> Pearsons of that vintage have a small cockpit. Great for single handing. Bad for marina entertaining. They are not barges. The admiral wanted a nice size cockpit to get out of my way when sailing.


Honestly the only reason we considered trading up to a larger boat. She's the perfect size for a couple but once you have even one guest on board they are constantly in the way. And half the fun of day sailing is taking other folks out with you. But we can't convince busy DC types to give up brunch or kids soccer to go sailing often enough to make it worth the upgrade.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

We do have solar panels and LED lights and fans in the cabin. Very nice upgrades from the previous owner - and much needed when gunkholing. I don't mind the icebox or the alcohol stove - I'm used to backcountry camping and it still seems luxurious to eat perishable food and drink cold beer five days out.

I probably don't 'need' an autopilot, given the kind of sailing I do, but I do crave the freedom to step out behind the wheel when extra hands are needed sailing, or when I just want to grab a glass of water down below. My wife dislikes driving the boat and it's not great for marital harmony or our long-run sailing plans that I'm constantly stuck behind the wheel giving instructions. She still likes going sailing and I need to keep it that way.

I didn't mention this on the 'repair' list, but our anchor light went out this season and I'll be sure to replace it with an LED, good suggestion.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Barquito said:


> If you have a tiller, installing a tiller pilot is a reasonable DIY job.


I have wheel steering. I understand this is still within the range of DIY, just something I'd rather have professionally installed for my own piece of mind. I'm just a bit baffled by the options out there for electronics, there doesn't seem to be much between 'we will custom install AIS, radar, air-conditioning, watermakers' for $$$ on your new cruising boat and 'DIY'.


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## danvon (Dec 10, 2012)

emcentar said:


> I have wheel steering. I understand this is still within the range of DIY, just something I'd rather have professionally installed for my own piece of mind. I'm just a bit baffled by the options out there for electronics, there doesn't seem to be much between 'we will custom install AIS, radar, air-conditioning, watermakers' for $$$ on your new cruising boat and 'DIY'.


I don't know about the rest of you, but the choice between $$$$$ and DIY has pretty much been the story ever since I bought my first boat.


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## BaysideLAW (Oct 17, 2020)

emcentar said:


> We do have solar panels and LED lights and fans in the cabin. Very nice upgrades from the previous owner - and much needed when gunkholing. I don't mind the icebox or the alcohol stove - I'm used to backcountry camping and it still seems luxurious to eat perishable food and drink cold beer five days out.
> 
> I probably don't 'need' an autopilot, given the kind of sailing I do, but I do crave the freedom to step out behind the wheel when extra hands are needed sailing, or when I just want to grab a glass of water down below. My wife dislikes driving the boat and it's not great for marital harmony or our long-run sailing plans that I'm constantly stuck behind the wheel giving instructions. She still likes going sailing and I need to keep it that way.
> 
> I didn't mention this on the 'repair' list, but our anchor light went out this season and I'll be sure to replace it with an LED, good suggestion.


"Alcohol stove". Yeah, I remember having that on the Out Island. And, boy-oh-boy, dropping a two-burner gas stove (Force 10) into that space made the overnights, weekends, and weeks so much nicer: easier to start, cooks faster, fueling is much simpler/easier. We supply it with 2-lb camping canisters mounted one at a time under the galley sink. Usually only go through one per week. It's not ideal and would probably make ABYC adherents crazy, but in lieu of building a "proper" propane locker, we keep two or three spares in a Pelican case in the lazarette.

On the list for upgrading that system was a small, fiberglass propane tank mounted on the stern so as to be a little safer. Plus, we would then be able to use that with the gas grill mounted there as well. Grilling abovedecks obviously helps limit the heat in the cabin in the summertime.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

It's funny the bad name old pressure alcohol stoves got. I used one for about seven years on my previous boat. It worked just fine. Took a bit more care to manage, and lighting the burners always produced a good show, but once you're used to it, they're no big deal.

I have a propane stove in my current boat, and would not choose to go back to alcohol, but it works perfectly fine, and does have some strengths over other fuels.


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## BaysideLAW (Oct 17, 2020)

MikeOReilly said:


> It's funny the bad name old pressure alcohol stoves got. I used one for about seven years on my previous boat. It worked just fine. Took a bit more care to manage, and lighting the burners always produced a good show, but once you're used to it, they're no big deal.
> 
> I have a propane stove in my current boat, and would not choose to go back to alcohol, but it works perfectly fine, and does have some strengths over other fuels.


I'll confess to a certain (sick?) nostalgia for the alcohol stove. The smell of denatured alcohol still takes me back . . . . 
find the can of fuel
where's the damned funnel?
grrrr, where's the channel-lock pliers so I can get the blasted rusty cap off?
fill and spill (or was it spill and fill?)
pump and preheat
apply aloe to the first/second-degree burn
light the vaporized fuel
wait for what seemed to be twice as long to get the water boiling
enjoy the fumes lingering in the cabin that to this day still take me back . . . .

Thankfully, aside from campfires, I don't have experience with fuels that I prefer less than alcohol.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

BaysideLAW said:


> I'll confess to a certain (sick?) nostalgia for the alcohol stove. The smell of denatured alcohol still takes me back . . . .
> find the can of fuel
> where's the damned funnel?
> grrrr, where's the channel-lock pliers so I can get the blasted rusty cap off?
> ...


Ah, those fond memories ... good times .

Personally, I love cooking over a wood fire. Maybe that explains my appreciation for alcohol  .


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Hmmm...maybe my alcohol stove is less complicated? It's basically like cooking on a big sterno can. I wouldn't want to prepare an elaborate meal on it, but it boils water for coffee just fine. 

For ASA 104 I sailed five days on a boat with a proper fridge and propane stove, and maybe the sailing instructor just scared the crap out of me, but I was constantly paranoid I'd either light the boat on fire or drain the batteries and strand us, so it was a relief to get back to my simple icebox and alcohol flame.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

BaysideLAW said:


> ...We supply it with 2-lb camping canisters mounted one at a time under the galley sink. Usually only go through one per week. It's not ideal and would probably make ABYC adherents crazy, but in lieu of building a "proper" propane locker, we keep two or three spares in a Pelican case in the lazarette....


You can buy brass threaded caps for the propane bottles for a few $$ for 6. FAR more effective than a Pelican case, which cannot actually hold any pressure. (Was in Nov 2020 Practical Sailor)

I've had propane bottles leak (twice). It ain't an internet myth. You don't want that in any part of the cabin or anything attached to it. Fortunatly, I kept mine in a separatly vented fuel compartment.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I love my alcohol stove wouldn't trade it for anything. Cook all kinds of meals on it curries, bread, whatever I could cook on electric is good to go on the alcohol stove.

If I need a second burner I have a second smaller alcohol stove I use for sea kayaking, I will run them both at once.

Not hard to use at all. Just light it. 

I am not a huge fan of propane systems. Too complex for my taste.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Funny. I've had a fully engineered propane system, and I've had an Origo, and I like the Origo fine. No problems.

1. find the can of fuel (really?)
2. where’s the damned funnel? (I carry ethanol in quart bottles, no funnel needed.)
3. grrrr, where’s the channel-lock pliers so I can get the blasted rusty cap off? (no steel cans.)
4. fill and spill (or was it spill and fill?) (fill the stove in the sink--no risk.)
5. pump and preheat (Origo is not pressurized.)
6. apply aloe to the first/second-degree burn. (nope.)
7. light the vaporized fuel (nope, just light the wick.)
8. wait for what seemed to be twice as long to get the water boiling (I've measured this--about 25% longer.)
9. enjoy the fumes lingering in the cabin that to this day still take me back. (bough the wrong alcohol--denaturants vary.)

It would depend on the size of the boat and the number of meals cooked aboard. Propane is nice and I like it on my PDQ, but if I couldn't do it the ABYC way, I wouldn't do it. Not worth it.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

emcentar said:


> Hmmm...maybe my alcohol stove is less complicated? It's basically like cooking on a big sterno can. I wouldn't want to prepare an elaborate meal on it, but it boils water for coffee just fine.


Yes, that's basically how all the newer non-pressure alcohol systems work. The older pressure alcohol stoves are the ones everyone is so afraid of. It's the kind that was on my previous boat. There's no priming needed for the non-pressure versions. And it is the priming that seems to spook some people.

I wouldn't trade my propane system for alcohol, but neither would I swap out a perfectly fine alcohol (pressure or non-pressure) if I was only spending a few weeks to a couple of months at a time on my boat.

The main disadvantage of alcohol (in my opinion) is the way the fuel is contained and carried. And also the added volume. Since alcohol produces roughly 1/2 the BTUs of propane (and kero/diesel), you need to carry about twice as much volume. And since it typically comes in gallon jugs, that's a lot of jugs stored somewhere on the boat if you plan to cruise as I do.

But it works just fine. Cooks as well as other fuels. And does have some advantages around safety.

Here's an article from Good Old Boat which itemizes the different fuels.









Sailboat Cooking Fuels - Good Old Boat


A clean look at the “dirty” half dozen Pros and cons of the six main fuels for galley stoves When it comes to choosing a marine stove fuel there is rarely anyone completely happy with the choice. All fuels have a “dirty” side to them, and some sides are deadly as well. Alcohol is...




goodoldboat.com







emcentar said:


> For ASA 104 I sailed five days on a boat with a proper fridge and propane stove, and maybe the sailing instructor just scared the crap out of me, but I was constantly paranoid I'd either light the boat on fire or drain the batteries and strand us, so it was a relief to get back to my simple icebox and alcohol flame.


No reason to be scared of propane, or having an electric fridge. Just like with many systems on a cruising boat, if used correctly, there is no problem with these things. Used incorrectly, and bad things can happen. But again, that's the same for most systems on a boat.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I haven't really upgraded my boat at all in ~4 years.

I removed the lazy Jack's, but then changed my mind and put them back on. 

Use a tiller lashing instead of an autopilot. Autopilot would be terrible on my boat. Would need to add a 12 volt system and a way to charge it, would be in the way and I probably wouldn't use it any way.

Figure the guy that designed my boat did a pretty good job, so haven't really messed with it.

I am thinking about adding electric propulsion, but the complexity that it would add has me second guessing.

Sometimes less is more. Sun, wind, water.


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## chriski (Aug 30, 2020)

Cannot take credit, but kudos to " The Stingy Sailor" and his wine glass holders. It added a touch of class to my US Yacht 25. I have pics, tough to upload, but he shows it all here: 
wine glass holders


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

While not gratifying when fitting out a newly owned boat, consideration should be given to safety upgrades. U.S, Sailing puts out standards. The lowest standard 1.3 is for near shore sailing. They're worth a look over. Just Google U.S. Sailing Safety Equipment Requirements (SER).


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## 508422 (Aug 26, 2018)

Does anyone know where a non pressurized alcohol stove can be purchased? The type they use to put on boats?

It seems that no one makes one anymore for marine. I can find some little tent camping style. We are getting by with a MAGMA on the rail and the spare tanks in a hanging bag on the rail. I would be scared to death to put propane inside the cabin or in a locker that drains to the bilge. Although I know a lot of people do. I also have personally had propane gas bottle leak sitting on the shelf. Dennis


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Origo was the manufacturer of those. They are no longer available new. Check Craigslist or ebay for used ones. The little single burner alcohol camping stoves are an alternative. They are cheap and you could use two to convert an existing stove from propane or presssurized alcohol.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

As mentioned, Origo is no longer being produced. Trangia seems to be filling the gap.

I have each an Origo 5100 and a Trangia 28, personally think the Origo is a better stove for boats because of the wick/antispill system and easier temperature control, but Trangias get the job done. If you can find a used Origo, they are a good option.

The back packing Trangia is not the only model in their line up though, it just seems to be the most popular.

The Trangia 25 is a more robust cook system if you are cooking for more than one. If cooking for just one, the 28 is a pretty good cook system.









Trangia » Choose the right Trangia stove - Trangia


The complete cooking system. Made in Sweden since 1925




trangia.se


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

That's sad that Origo alcohol stores are no more. I'm quite fond of mine. 

Update on the sailboat upgrades - I'm moving forward with the EZ Main and getting the furler and reefing system looked at. Autopilot likely next, assuming fixing or replacing the furler doesn't blow my budget. 

Will keep my two Danforths for now, as long as I stick to Chesapeake mud bottoms. And sure enough my stern rails won't support seats, so much for that upgrade. Will have to wait for the next boat for more cockpit seating, meanwhile will just take out friends who don't mind either being extra crew members or getting out of the way when we tack (e.g. not our parents).


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## LaPoodella (Oct 5, 2018)

emcentar said:


> I've heard this, but spouse disagrees. She wants the lazy jacks and stack pack first. Compromise is that we are going to do both in time for next sailing season.


Lazy jacks shouldn't be hard. I don't know what a stack pack is. I have a 28 footer and with sail in good condition it stacks itself in the lazy jacks. But you definitely want a new mast car system and new sails. Old sails are much harder to hoist and lower. Do you have a self furling jib? That would be important.


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## LaPoodella (Oct 5, 2018)

LaPoodella said:


> Lazy jacks shouldn't be hard. I don't know what a stack pack is. I have a 28 footer and with sail in good condition it stacks itself in the lazy jacks. But you definitely want a new mast car system and new sails. Old sails are much harder to hoist and lower. Do you have a self furling jib? That would be important.


We upgraded the mainsail track and car system to a sliding system that works like butter. It might be the Marine Tides system but there are more out there now. It made a huge huge difference. Make sure your lazy jacks can be easily pulled out of the way of any battens in your sail when hoisting.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

New mainsail system (EZ Main System | Chesapeake Sailmakers/doyle,Annapolis,MD,Chuck O'Malley) was installed last week, can't wait to try it out. Lazy jacks can be pulled to mast when hoisting, haven't tried it yet so not sure how easily but very excited about this upgrade.

Still trying to figure out what is going on with the headsail furler, it might be beyond fixing and need to be replaced.


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## cfinn (Jun 30, 2020)

MikeOReilly said:


> I already had lazyjacks, a windlass, a working furler, and a windvane when I bought the boat, so our best upgrades have been (not necessarily in order):
> 
> • Enough solar/wind to basically be electrically independent without the need for dino-charging.
> • (Corollary) A newer, efficient fridge/freezer.
> ...


Any chance you could post a pic? I have the same type of boat and have been looking at ideas on a safety ladder setup. Thanks!


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

LaPoodella said:


> Lazy jacks shouldn't be hard. I don't know what a stack pack is.


A Stack Pack is a mainsail cover that is incorporated into the lazy jack system so all you have to do is drop the sail, tidy it up a bit and zip the bag. Some people don't like the fact that the sail bag is always there, although it can be designed so it rolls up and straps to the boom. I think StackPack is what Quantum calls it. I havexalso head it referred to as a "boom bag" or Lazy bag".

We love our stack pack! It is so quick and easy to use, and when you reef it keeps all of the loose sail contained.

Sent from my SM-G981W using Tapatalk


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

cfinn said:


> Any chance you could post a pic? I have the same type of boat and have been looking at ideas on a safety ladder setup. Thanks!


I'll have to go looking to find a pic with the ladder. It's not really a photogenic part of the boat, but I've probably got some that show it.

This is the ladder we have. It stores at our stbd side on a stanchion. It collapses in completely out of the way, but can be retrieved from the water level. And it's semi-rigid form and wide foot rails make it easy to use.









Home - Scandia Marine Products


Who We Are Scandia Marine Products mission is to improve common boating products with modern design and material solutions. We currently offer two distinct product lines, each offering a better solution than the traditional marine products available. Our Up-N-Out Marine Ladders offer a...




scandiamarineproducts.com


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Here's a pic of the ladder extended. I can't find one with it folded up, but it basically collapses into itself, and is secured against the stanchion. A pull-chord hangs down to just about the water level. It can be reached from the water level, and allows the ladder to be released by a swimmer.


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## LaPoodella (Oct 5, 2018)

emcentar said:


> New mainsail system (EZ Main System | Chesapeake Sailmakers/doyle,Annapolis,MD,Chuck O'Malley) was installed last week, can't wait to try it out. Lazy jacks can be pulled to mast when hoisting, haven't tried it yet so not sure how easily but very excited about this upgrade.
> 
> Still trying to figure out what is going on with the headsail furler, it might be beyond fixing and need to be replaced.


We eventually had to replace our headsail furler. We don't know how it broke but the feeder kept getting turned around because part of the black plastic housing had a chunk broken off. We bought the boat used and might have missed this in the survey because sometimes it worked. My husband did a work around with a short line with a small pully on it to run the outhaul and inhaul to keep the lines down low in front of the furler. But when we got a new headsail he replaced the furler.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

LaPoodella said:


> We eventually had to replace our headsail furler. We don't know how it broke but the feeder kept getting turned around because part of the black plastic housing had a chunk broken off. We bought the boat used and might have missed this in the survey because sometimes it worked. My husband did a work around with a short line with a small pully on it to run the outhaul and inhaul to keep the lines down low in front of the furler. But when we got a new headsail he replaced the furler.


If you have a similar older model Harken furler to this one:








And the broken plastic is the piece that covers the top of the drum, mine broke close to 20 years ago. It turns out that the lid to a Folgers 30 oz coffee container.is almost the exact diameter as the inside diameter of the metal shell of the furler. For the past 20 years, I have used a Folgers lid to prevent the problem that you are describing., It turns out the shaft of the furler is almost exactly the diameter of a spray paint can lid. I trace the spray paint can lid onto the Folgers lid then make a cut from one edge of the lid until I reach the circle of the spray paint lid, and then cut out the circle. It pops into place very neatly, then I stitch up the cut with whipping twine. The lids seem to last two to four years.

Jeff


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## JeepKnut (Sep 22, 2021)

Don L said:


> You will praise your autopilot 100x more than you will cus not having a stackpak!!!


Yes, most definitely.


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## JeepKnut (Sep 22, 2021)

Anchor talk can go on for hours. I haven't used any of the modern anchors. They are far too expensive for my wallet so I don't really know anything about them except for what anchor tests watched. What I can say, is that and almost 30 years of anchoring because I don't use marinas or moorings, the best bang-for-the-buck is the claw anchor. They don't have the holding power that the modern rocna anchor does or the like but the Bruce will not pop out. The Bruce drags slowly but will not Breakout. Properly sized, a claw anchor is good for about thirty-five knots of sustained wind. I have to climb anchors and when I drop the second one I can now go to sleep. No moving parts. Very strong. My 33s cost me 250 a piece. That's two anchors for the price of one rakhna or the like. Spelling. I would not trust one anchor past a force 7. If something goes wrong you're going for a ride. I don't know if these anchors breakout or not that would be information I would like to hear. I'm also in the Chesapeake off of Havre Grace. Sometimes I will drop a 13-pound Danforth. Danforth being the brand name because the other Danforth style anchors bend the shank. The thing about a Danforth is that they can foul kinda easily if they drag at all. One day sitting out of Gail in Hadley's Harbor at Woods Hole, I woke up at night like you do when something's wrong and there was something wrong. I had dropped two hooks that evening a 20lb CQR and a 24lb Danforth. What happened was the Danforth Rag and then fouled. when I went up to the bow I pulled the Danforth to the boat which meant my 12000 lb boat was being held by a 20lb CQR in a gale! Luckily Hadley's Harbor is very well protected . It was after this incident that I bought my first Bruce anchor. If a Danforth style anchor drags you are trolling for a foul and it will fail and break out when fouled the chance of it resetting are almost nil. However, Danforth style anchors have the highest holding power for their weight. A 24-pound Danforth in the right type of bottom which is mud will hold a reported 4000 + pounds.! But I don't trust them totally I always drop a Bruce and then drop the Danforth if needed as the second anchor. I have not had a Danforth fail since that event but then I hardly ever use them I have 2 33 pound Bruce's and I used them religiously. I have never had a Bruce break or break out of a bottom. As I said, they drag slowly so run your anchor alarm if needed. You should probably do that anyway.


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