# Brand new sailor-to-be



## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

Hello all,

Just joined the forum to ask some questions along the way to purchasing my first sailboat.

Me:
I live in the suburbs of Chicago and work as an IT analyst for an office supply company. I'm also a big moped (not scooter) enthusiast.

The dream:
I plan/hope to sail largely on Lake MI, however the boat will be stored on trailer/cradle and towed for at least this season. Slips enter the budget next year haha. I have several experienced sailing friends to help me learn, and its a process I'm very excited about.

Looking for something at least 22 or 23 feet, and CHEAP. Budgeting 1500 for the purchase price of the boat and trailer, less is even better.

Any advice on what craft I should be shopping for (and tips for when I'm looking at the boat) would be a HUGE help.

Hope to see you on the water!


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

I should make it clear that I know there will be work involved with a boat of that price range, and I'm excited to tackle that too. (expect more questions haha)


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## DonScribner (Jan 9, 2011)

TS,

Pick up a copy of The Complete Trailer Sailor by Brian Gilbert. He covers all the aspects of trailer sailing but most importantly, he has specs, drawings, photos, pros and cons for about 50 trailerables in the back of the book. This can help you decide what you like, dislike and can't live without. As far as price, shoot a little higher. For about $4k, you'll get a really well preserved boat in your size. If you cheap out, you'll pay more (in repairs and refit) plus you'll miss the time sailing. To make matters even worse, you may get discouraged and give up altogether. That, my friend, would be sad.

As for me, we trailer our boat every weekend. She's a 25 footer and a bit heavy but worth the sweat. So, with my oodles of experience (yeah, right) let me suggest a couple of things to look for.

1) Check the rigging for corrosion and "meat hooks"
2) Check the sails for shape, cleanliness and crispness
3) Does the boat have an enclosed head? (huge with the ladies . . . and me)
4) Is the boat sail-worthy as she stands or is there a huge amount of work to do?
5) Can this work be done one week nights and not keep you from the water?
6) Consider "dry sailing" - keeping her on her trailer at a marina
7) Take a course in Sailing Skills ans Seamanship for the local power squadron

Post pics when you bite.

Don,
Maine


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Welcome aboard. Any moped enthusiast has the correct combination of self-effacing cool and quixotic pursuit of maximizing slow speed potential for sailing.

Under 15 bills, you need to be proactive not reactive.
At a bottom-feeder price point, you haven't got the luxury of responding to CL ads and wandering boatyards. At that price you will always be too late.
Instead, place a wanted ad:
"new sailor looking for first sailboat. Need a boat between 20 and 23 feet, the older the better, trailer preferred, some TLC required is okay. What have you got?"
By being proactive instead of reactive, you may pull in sellers who hadn't advertised yet, sellers who had taken their boats off the market, and sellers who didn;t even realize they were selling, but your ad soundedl ike the voice of a sincere young man, yadda yadda.
Find out what the seller wants, take a look at the boat if itiinterests you, and if it rings all the bells, start haggling.

have fun.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

$1500 for an older Catalina 22, O'Day 23, etc. that's in sailable, but not "pristine," condition may not be unreasonable at the end of this season. I think you may be hard pressed, though, to find one for that price that includes the trailer. I'd suggest trying to stretch your budget a bit, too. Start looking now, but take a few extra months and save a few more dollars. If you find something now that's in your range, great! But if you can get to about $2000-$2500, I think you're more likely to find a decent boat that won't need a whole lot more than elbow grease to meet your needs.

I'm a "budget" buyer, and I can appreciate that some times you're willing to spend $1500 now for a boat, even though you know it's going to take another $3000 to fix it up, because she's in sailable condition now and the other changes/enhancements/etc., can be done incrementally. That's the approach I've taken with both of my boats. But, I have to tell you, it's amazing how much an extra few hundred dollars gets you; it is disproportionate to the actual value of the work/equipment the current owner has put into the boat. You'll probably see a 1.5-2x multiplier, and possibly more.

The best time to buy a boat is when nobody else wants to buy - that's at the end of the season. If you can hold out that long, you'll be even more likely to find something in your budget. No, you won't be able to SAIL it for too long before it gets too cold, but, on the plus side, you'll have several months to handle some of the repairs/maintenance before she's back in the water. Personally, I'd MUCH rather buy a fixer-upper at the end of the season and work my butt off all winter fixing her than to buy her in the spring and "waste" the spring and part of the summer trying to get her ready.

Anyway...welcome to Sailnet! You'll get lots of opinions, and lots of suggestions, and some might even be useful!


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## campuscab (Mar 1, 2013)

I looked at hundreds of boats before picking my Cal 20. I paid 1k but no trailer or motor so it will be more like 2 when I am done. I took a couple of months to decide what I wanted and needed. Around 2 to 3 there were a ton of choices many 27 and up. I wanted to be able to move mine at times but keep it in a slip most of the time. I got a slip on the Detroit River for 750 for the year. 
So ask questions here and when you see something you like get some input. This site i like because there are not as many people that think you need 250k to buy a good boat. Figure out where you want to go who will be with you how long etc. If you want Lake Michigan 27 or up is best but not a rule Black Feathers went to Hawaii and Lone Gull was on the Atlantic for 19 days. Both Cal 20s. Comfort is another choice to make. I am a cab driver so 20 feet is like a house after spending 12 years in the front of a crown vic. My kids night not agree so see if I have a 32 by the end of summer. The most umportant thing is to do it and get on the water. I have had I hour of instruction, two online courses, 12 books, three summers daysailing, and am just starting to learn. I am always willing to take advise and my boat is always open. I was suprised to learn how many people can sail that do not own a boat. It is a,great way to make friends. So have fun and enjoy learning


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

So many things to respond to! This looks like a great community to be a part of!

I actually settled on that price point based on boats I've looked at (not just on the internet haha) and work I want to put in; for me that's part of the fun, and a sort of built-in financing plan. I have seen several Cal 20s well within my price range as well as oday 23s, probably 2/3 of which were ready to sail or a few pieces of rigging/a sail away from ready to sail and with trailers.

Any opinions as to whether a cal 20 would be appropriate for Lake MI sailing?

Also, are there any Detroit folks on this forum?


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## John B (Mar 6, 2013)

I am a new sailor also, I got my first boat cheap just by asking around.who has a boat that they haven't used in a few yrs. and is paying slip fees for it. You will find a lot of people are in this situation. Make them an offer.good luck


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Campuscab, welcome aboard!
It's good to see another Detroit River sailor onboard. I lived aboard on the River for a while between wives, and still love the area. Upside- great skyline at night and the best seat for freedom festival fireworks. the downside- the fragrance of Zug island.


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

Does anyone have any advice on trailering any of the following?:

Oday 23

Columbia 22 or 23 (23 with shoal keel)


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## campuscab (Mar 1, 2013)

Zug island hmm Windsor. After getting stopped at the bridge before I will take Zug island any day. Sorry Canada. I can't wait to go to Sindbads


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Yep $1500 is really gonna be tough..
1977 22 Foot O'Day Sailboat
24' 1968 Islander Bahama Sailboat
Sailboat Kells - 23

You may be able to get them to negotiate down some... Looks like the Kells got a recent paint job.

Oday 23 is a nice boat. I've not been on the Columbias...
There is a nice 1988 Capri 22 in your state but way over your budget at $6k (a reasonable price for it might be $4500).

I also agree with others that say, you'll either spend it now, or spend it later when it comes to used trailerables, and I'd rather you not buy something that requires intense work to get going, and you never realize the dream of sailing your own boat.

You can also consider getting a smaller trailerable (also fix it up, but sail it too)... but turn around at a profit or a wash... and upgrade your way to the 22-23 footer. That's basically how I did it. Oh and it gets you into the 2 foot itus that seems to plague us all.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

Oh, I'm looking further than just Chicago for my boat. I've found quite a few in my price range that are certainly not as pretty as the ones you posted, but are ready to sail. Got my eyes on a few in Detroit; hopefully I can find a fellow forum-goer that has some more experienced eyes than my own to check them out.

Any takers?


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## campuscab (Mar 1, 2013)

I have looked at a ton here in Detroit from 1 to 5 k


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

campuscab said:


> I have looked at a ton here in Detroit from 1 to 5 k


Excellent! If I were to come up to your area on a Sunday in mid April, could I possibly convince you to give me a hand in looking at these boats? This will be my first time, so any experience is a big plus. You would of course be compensated somehow!


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## campuscab (Mar 1, 2013)

Ya I can show you around the guy I bought mine from has a bunch also.from 1000 an up some good deals around Detroit everyone here is poor.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Y'know, something to ponder:
$1500 usually buys you a boat needing at least $1500 worth of frustrating work in the first season- if it isn't already broken and needing replacement, stuff gets broke and needs to be replaced on an ongoing basis throughout the season- it can get frustrating feeling like you have to open your wallet every time you sail because something else broke...again.
It hurts your confidence in your boat, it makes sailing a chore, and it also does nothing for the confidence of any sailing companion you happen to talk into joining you.
However, if you can stretch your budget just $1000 more, a funny thing happens- the boats tend to get $2000-$3000 better.
Compare this boat to some that have already been posted:
22 ft Hullmaster Sailboat - Ontario Sailboats For Sale - Kijiji Ontario Canada.
or this:
Hunter 25 - Trenton Sailboats For Sale - Kijiji Trenton Canada.
or this one, just across the river from detroit;
22 TANZER - Ontario Sailboats For Sale - Kijiji Ontario Canada.


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

I have considered this, blj. I understand that frustration will be part of the game. I'm used to it, being a moped enthusiast (those machines are just balls of disappointment, but I can't get enough of them for some reason). If I don't find a boat that is up to snuff, I'll wait. But if I can be sailing this season, I'll make every effort to do so.

And CampusCab, I think we may be looking in the same place. What boat did you get? I'm wondering if the website is kept up to date, if you picked up one that's still isted then I have my answer.


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

Oops, looks like a cal 20, just re-read your post. 1969? Was the guy flexible with price?


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## HukiLau (Mar 19, 2013)

TuurboSpaggetti,
A Cal 20 is a small boat, how far off shore are you planing to go. If only day sailing you should be fine, Lake Michigan can get real mean in a blow as all Great Lakes can.


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

It'll be largely a day sailor. Don't plan on any longer sails than one day launching from Chi and a stay at a Milwaukee marina and a day back. That doesn't seem too wild, does it? This is all weather and sailing skill permitting, of course.


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## campuscab (Mar 1, 2013)

I got it from used boats of detroit .com . He had maybe 30 more he did not have listed. I picked one of the cals because I could move it easy. He had them up to 30' and even let me make payments. There are some more around an alberg 28 that looks like,a tank with a atomic in it. There are a few in the area that don't sail that have some 27 to 32s that might be bought right.


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## campuscab (Mar 1, 2013)

I am going to take mine anywhere i can Erie St. Clair Michigan, ICW Bahamamas. Sounds bold huh. We will see what it can handle. Anywhere is ok by me because it us still more,fun Than work


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

that's exactly the place I was talking about! With payments, did he have you do layaway installments and pick it up when you've paid it all off? Or a loan?


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## campuscab (Mar 1, 2013)

Layaway. He is great to deal with. He had all sizes and prices. If you look up the goatyard on youtube you can see a few of them. There are a couple of things it needs and he is going to help me with them


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