# Cooper 416



## mvsunstar (Sep 24, 2006)

I'm about to purchase a Cooper 416 and would like some more information from anyone who knows. Specifically, is the boat completely hull cored or just above the waterline. The broker I'm dealing with doesn't know. 

I'm primarily looking at this boat as a liveaboard. How well does the Cooper 416 perform? Are there any shortcoming I should be aware of?

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

A couple in our Yacht Club have been living aboard one of these for some time. They have done trips around Vancouver Island without incident, which involves some marginal but potentially rough offshore legs. They seem quite comfortable. This is in the Vancouver BC area, where winters are damp but relatively mild.
Performance wise I think they are not bad considering their bulk and accomodation, certainly a step or two beyond the full keel boat but not up to a typical cruiser racer. Considerable displacement combined with a very heavy single spreader rig is going to make this boat less than a spritely performer.
However that is obviously not the intent - as a liveaboard or long term coastal cruiser I think it would be a good compromise. A 14 foot beam on 42 feet makes for lots of space. 
The large house windows would required modifications, I think, for any extended offshore plans.
I have not heard of any serious defects, though the typical blisters and deck leaks will no doubt present, as they may on any boat getting on in age. I can't speak to the coring, but try to find older articles in Pacific Yachting magazine (they may even be posted on their website). These boats were built in the Vancouver area and got some press when introduced. Build details may well be found there.


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## mvsunstar (Sep 24, 2006)

Thanks Faster that is some great info - especially the Pacific Yachting. I managed to track down a review with them.

Cheers


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## SVEtosha (Apr 20, 2011)

I to am looking to purchase a Cooper 412 & would appreciate any info on them. How do they perform, what is the storage like, does the internal steering position get used or it a waste of space etc. 

Also if someone has one for sale I would be interested in hearing from them.


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## svFolieADeux (May 6, 2011)

I've owned a Cooper 416 since 1989 and would be happy to answer your questions. To answer the original question: the hull is not completely cored, but I couldn't tell you exactly where it goes from cored to solid. The hull coring (at least in my boat) as I recall is Klegecell, while the deck and pilothouse are balsa cored. We do not have the inside steering station. The original owner (the boat is an '84) had previously owned pilothouses and in his opinion the inside steering station was useless. Due to the interior height and the placement of the forward windows you would need a fairly high interior helm seat in order to have any visibility. If I ever get a "real" autopilot, though, I'll set up a remote at what would have been the inside steering station.

Our boat performs pretty well considering its beam, although it is very sensitive to bottom growth.

As far as storage is concerned, it will depend on the boat. It seems that the factory (at least in the '84 time frame) was willing to make extensive changes to accommodate the buyer's wishes. I understand that normally the 416 had a pilot berth to port at the companionway. Instead I have a large portside cockpit locker, and then below a large hanging locker, a set of drawers roughly 20" wide from cabin sole to pilothouse windows, and then a 20" wide locker that was used for.... a clothes washer. We never used it and removed it, leaving a 36" x 30" x 18" space just waiting to be filled with something. Eating up some storage space is a 40 gallon water tank under the v-berth and a 30 gallon holding tank under the settee at the table. The main water tank and fuel tank are installed below the cabin sole against the hull.

I noticed in another thread someone mentioning that the 416 has a single spreader rig. As you can see in the photo, that's not the case on my boat.

Doug


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Your boat looks great! Must be a rarity on the East Coast...


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## svFolieADeux (May 6, 2011)

Thanks! The original owner lived in the Pacific Northwest and brought the boat through the Panama Canal to Florida. We bought her in Ft. Lauderdale and sailed her up to Rhode Island. This was in 1989, and since then we've seen 1 Cooper 353 (in Cuttyhunk, MA to be specific) and that's it.


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## SVEtosha (Apr 20, 2011)

Hi Doug,

Thanks for reply. Having owned a 416 since 89 you must be very happy with her?

I would appreciate your feedback on the following if that is possible.

I like the pilothouse look but am not sure if the windows are to big. As I will be doing a lot of bluewater sailing in the south pacific & southern areas of Australia I will encounter big seas. Do you think the windows are up to it?

Where do you keep your propane tanks?

I was under the impression that Cooper sold the molds to Bayliner in 81 after a fire at the factory & from that date the Cooper 416 was made with the name US42. Is this correct or is yours a genuine Cooper 416 which goes against the reviews I have read?

Yes, some have single & others twin spreaders. Which is the same with the bbackstay. Does your 416 have a single or twin backstay?

Others have said that the tanks can split & then big problems to fix them. Have you encountered this problem & if so what was your problem & how did you fix it?

As I will be doing extended cruising, do you think your water & fuel tankage is surficient? I am thinking that more water would be good. I noticed uyou have extra water in the v-berth. Is there other areas where another water tank could be placed?

The other choice is to install a water maker. Is there room for this to be done?

The photos of your 416 show her a a very lovely yacht, congrats. I do not see any solar panels or wind genny. What & how many batteries do you have & what do you use for charging them up?

You mentioned growth on the hull. Is this due to the beam?

I am 6' 3'' tallso am wondering what sort of headroom do you have in the fwd cabin, head, saloon, galley area & the aft cabin?

Is the chain locker very big? How much chain/warp do you carry there?

Sure to have other questions but wont bother you with them all at once.

Look forward to your reply.

Regards,
Tony.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Etosha

They've owned her since '89; she was not necessarily new then. Whether marine growth is an issue will have little to do with the design and all to do with the paint used and the waters she lives in. All boats will be slowed by such growth, of course.


FWIW I believe that most owners going offshore with these boats will have taken storm protection measures for those largish portlights.


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## DDabs (May 8, 2011)

sweet boat


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## svFolieADeux (May 6, 2011)

SVEtosha said:


> Hi Doug,
> 
> Thanks for reply. Having owned a 416 since 89 you must be very happy with her?


Yes, my wife and I are, although I had a low spot where I was playing diesel mechanic more than sailor. 3 years ago I repowered from the Lehman 4D50 (which was a marinized Peugeot engine) to a Yanmar 4JH4E (54 hp) and I'm *much* happier. 


> I would appreciate your feedback on the following if that is possible.
> 
> I like the pilothouse look but am not sure if the windows are to big. As I will be doing a lot of bluewater sailing in the south pacific & southern areas of Australia I will encounter big seas. Do you think the windows are up to it?


Mine are not, IMHO. While the glass itself is laminated, the frames on mine are teak and are screwed into the cabin (from both sides), not through-bolted. If I were ever to go offshore I'd contemplate some type of storm shutter--probably lexan, as through-bolting what I have probably wouldn't be sufficient.


> Where do you keep your propane tanks?


The starboard cockpit locker is set up as propane storage. Sealed with an overboard drain, it holds 2 20lb tanks.


> I was under the impression that Cooper sold the molds to Bayliner in 81 after a fire at the factory & from that date the Cooper 416 was made with the name US42. Is this correct or is yours a genuine Cooper 416 which goes against the reviews I have read?


Mine was built in 1984 (we are the 2nd owners). The electrical panel has the Cooper logo, and all paperwork refers to it as Cooper. The hull number begins with CEL, and the original mainsail had Cooper's stylized "C" around a maple leaf. How all of this dovetails with your information I couldn't say, but from all appearances this originated from the factory as a Cooper.


> Yes, some have single & others twin spreaders. Which is the same with the bbackstay. Does your 416 have a single or twin backstay?


Twin backstay. I always thought it was because the original owner had the helm seat built way up for better visibility over the 'house and a single backstay would have been in the way.


> Others have said that the tanks can split & then big problems to fix them. Have you encountered this problem & if so what was your problem & how did you fix it?
> 
> As I will be doing extended cruising, do you think your water & fuel tankage is surficient? I am thinking that more water would be good. I noticed uyou have extra water in the v-berth. Is there other areas where another water tank could be placed?
> 
> The other choice is to install a water maker. Is there room for this to be done?


I've never heard of tanks splitting, but then I've never found a lot of information circulating regarding these boats. Ok, in the era of the web I haven't exactly looked very hard either  . The main water, fuel, and original holding tank are all aluminum, and the tank under the v-berth is fiberglass. The aluminum holding tank rotted and I replaced it with polyethelene. Should there be a problem with either the main water tank or fuel tank it will be expensive to fix. The water tank is outboard, to port just before the step down to the main salon (in my boat). The fuel tank is opposite on the starboard side, under the stove (on most boats) and much of the galley cabinetry.

I have a total of 220 gallons of water tankage (180+40), and it wouldn't be hard to find space for more. However given the hull shape it's likely to be high up (like the v-berth tank). There might be some space to install a bladder tank.

I'm not sure how much room a watermaker realistically takes, although especially with the component models you ought to be able to fit it in somewhere.


> The photos of your 416 show her a a very lovely yacht, congrats. I do not see any solar panels or wind genny. What & how many batteries do you have & what do you use for charging them up?


Thank you! The picture (which paints the hull in the best light) was a lucky shot.

When I repowered I replaced the batteries (6x Trojan T105) with 2x Lifeline AGM batteries, 255 Ah. These are exclusively charged from a 120a alternator.


> You mentioned growth on the hull. Is this due to the beam?


As Faster mentioned, rate of hull growth is no different from any other boat, however this hull seems to be sensitive to small amounts of growth, and yes, I'd guess due to her beam


> I am 6' 3'' tallso am wondering what sort of headroom do you have in the fwd cabin, head, saloon, galley area & the aft cabin?


Headroom in general is very good, but be sure to check out the berths. At least in my layout they tried to squeeze a lot in an aft cockpit 41' boat, and at not quite 6' I find the berth's a little short.


> Is the chain locker very big? How much chain/warp do you carry there?


I carry 300' of 5/16" HT chain for the main anchor (45lb CQR), and 250' of 3/4" rope/50' of chain for the 33lb (I think) Bruce. The partitioning of the chain locker space wasn't done very well, and I'm thinking about some changes (TBD) there this year. I happen to have all the gear removed as I'm going to re-galvanize the CQR and its chain.


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## SVEtosha (Apr 20, 2011)

Hi Doug,

Thanks for the very comprehensive reply, its great.

I didn't know that the chain locker was divided into 2. I assume you have a double bow roller but what about getting the chain out & in the locker?

Do you have 2 hourse pipes that are positioned to use the one windlass or does the locker have a lid that you open & feed each chain to the windlass?

It must be a very large locker to hold the quantity of chain & rope that you carry, are they both the same size or one bigger than the other?


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## svFolieADeux (May 6, 2011)

SVEtosha said:


> Hi Doug,
> 
> Thanks for the very comprehensive reply, its great.
> 
> ...


The "division" of the chain locker is a bit of a hack and may have been done by the first owner. It does keep the 2 rodes separate through.

I have a horizontal windlass with 1 hawse pipe appropriately positioned at the chain gypsy. This is for my main anchor which is on all chain. The 2nd hawse pipe isn't positioned for windlass use, but as it's a rope rode it doesn't matter. I also don't use it all that often.


> It must be a very large locker to hold the quantity of chain & rope that you carry, are they both the same size or one bigger than the other?


The 50' of chain on the 2nd anchor is 3/8" but as it's rather corroded I'm going to replace it with 25' of 5/16" HT. The chain locker extends from the V-berth "platform" to the deck, and occupies all of the space forward of the forward v-berth bulkhead. There's a door set in that bulkhead that gives access to it.


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