# South of France bound



## kennethpimentel (Nov 11, 2018)

We've made the decision to move to the South of France and live on a boat. We're now trying to figure out how to exactly do that as US citizens.

We're currently thinking about buying our first new boat (a Dufour 412GL). That involves a bunch of research and head scratching. We've owned about six boats, so familiar with the issues that come up to some extent. 

There are three of us, wife, daughter (15) and cat. Luckily, after 3 years of living on a Leopard 40, we have tested our relationships and still want to go back to a boat together.

You can read about our prior adventures (2012-2016) here: dreamcatcher-sv.blogspot.com

cheers,
ken


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## mikel1 (Oct 19, 2008)

Anxious to see replies here . . . Love that area . .


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

The first thing you had better research are the Schengen regulations for your move. As US citizens, you are allowed 90 days in the EU, then you must leave for 90 days before you can return.
This is immigration. Customs will have different rules for the boat.


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## kennethpimentel (Nov 11, 2018)

Yes, I'm familiar with the Schengen issues (I think). Been researching that for awhile. It seems that people have successfully gotten long term (1 year) visas in France. I have found a lawyer that specializes in these things and he thinks it is reasonably likely that we could get one (it depends on a lot of factors). As to the renewal, you wind up taking your chances on that. Worst case, switch over to the 90 days out of 180 dance. We could also go through the same process of obtaining a long-term visa in a different country.

Other thoughts welcome!


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Its suddenly got a whole lot easier in the last few months with the opening of a marina in a very, very strategic place.

Tanger Marina 35 47.3891 N	005 48.0470 W is 30nm WEST of Gibralter on the Morocco side and unlike the other marinas in northern Morocco is not an EU Spanish enclave. So you can stay there for EURO20 per night and after a day or 2 you will 'reset' your boats 18 month temporary importation. (Note this is the boat only not you as a human).
The only other places to do this are:
Jersey and Guernsey in the Channel Islands;
Norway.

So thats the boat. Now for you:

You need to be out of the EU for 90 days after your 90 days in... you can do this in:
Gibraltar,
Morocco - Tanger marina
Jersey & Guernsey
UK
Norway.


Currently I am waddlin between London and Europe for the next few years. I do have the benifit of some bilateral agreements giving Australians extra time in some northern European countries that US citizens dont get. But its eminently do-able that you can remain in Western Europe for the full 12 months per year without breaking to law for yourself or your boat.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

If the day rate on Tanger marina is only 20 euros then the monthly rate must be quite affordable as a place to leave the boat for a month to fly home or do some land travel. Theres ferrys from Tanger to Tarifa (6 times per day), Spain or Gibralter so you cnould fly in/out from either.
Friends who stayed there a few months ago said the security was heavy. Morocco wants the tourism and they know Europeans will only feel safe if theres machine guns at every entrance.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Tanja


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

RegisteredUser said:


> Tanja


Fight! Fight!



> The Carthaginian name of the city is variously recorded as tng (Punic: ???), tngʾ (????), tyngʾ (?????),[3] and ttgʾ (????);[4] these appear in Greek and Roman sources as Tenga, Tinga, Titga, &c.[5] The old Berber name was Tingi (ⵜⵉⵏⴳⵉ),[citation needed] which Ruiz connects to Berber tingis, meaning "marsh".[6] The Greeks later claimed that Tingís (Greek: Τιγγίς) had been named for a daughter of the titan Atlas, who was supposed to support the vault of heaven nearby. Latin Tingis then developed into Portuguese Tânger, Spanish Tánger, and French Tanger, which entered English as "Tangier" and "Tangiers". The Arabic name of the town is Tanjah (طَنجة), and the modern Berber name is Tanja (ⵟⴰⵏⴵⴰ).[5]
> 
> Tangier was formally known as Colonia Julia Tingi ("The Julian Colony of Tingis") following its elevation to colony status during the Roman Empire. It is also sometimes known as Boughaz.[why?] The nicknames "Bride of the North" and "Door of Africa" reference its position in far northwestern Africa near the Strait of Gibraltar.


I like Bride of the North best :grin


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Tangier was always one of my favorite places. Very friendly, inexpensive and little to no problems with the officials. It's nice to know there are few security worries there, thanks.


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

One of the issues (albeit small in the grander scheme of things) when I looked into a long term visa was that you had to have a residence there and it did not look like a boat qualified. I also had a problem with the timing as — if I remember correctly — you couldn't apply for the visa until you were ready to go and buying a boat without being 100% sure I had the visa made me a bit nervous.

Probably not big issues but worth looking into...


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I have been eying Portugal as a great place to retire. Portugal has a pretty open door policy about accepting US Citizens as permanent residents. It takes a while to do and goes faster with a knowledgeable Portuguese lawyer. Once you have the Portuguese permanent residency, I believe that you can move around the EU at will. 

Jeff


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Jeff_H said:


> I have been eying Portugal as a great place to retire. Portugal has a pretty open door policy about accepting US Citizens as permanent residents. It takes a while to do and goes faster with a knowledgeable Portuguese lawyer. Once you have the Portuguese permanent residency, I believe that you can move around the EU at will.
> 
> Jeff


I did much the same research a few years back, with more interest in the reasonably priced areas with some sort of inside sailing. I found a few areas that had barrier islands with inside waters, like the ICW that were expat friendly and very reasonable for living. Unfortunately, much of the southern Portuguese coast is very touristy and expensive.
By the way, after a lot of research, I came to the conclusion that Uruguay was the cheapest, safest, easiest regarding residency, and had the best climate of anywhere I had looked at. It didn't seem there was any problem with coming down on a boat and doing charters. Those I talked to on the web even implied there were plenty of hotels which could use a service like that!
And just across the river, there was another friendly country to visit and explore, again apparently without any immigration difficulties.
I certainly couldn't afford to live in the south of France today, any more than I could in the 70's and 80's when I was visiting there regularly on the yachts I was operating. 
Oh la la, tres cher mon ami!


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Jeff agree with your view of Portugal. I was there and the azores for awhile. My view may skewed as I was invited by the government due to a research project on a spinocerebellar atrophy I had been studying for decades. There are several large colonies of brits. Even in the azores many are English speakers. The people,food,drink and climate are all delightful. Also if you’re of average height you’ll feel like a giant. The coast is beautiful but apparently challenging to sail. If I moved there would probably sell the boat and get a sturdy fish boat for day excursions. However could live on the boat in the azores. Probably Pico.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Remember you get 6 Months in the UK, 3 in Jersey, 3 or 6 in Gibraltar. So it's quite possible. 
Especially if u work your seasons right. 

When I arrived from the Caribbean it was June, 3 months in France then 6 in UK then 3 more in France...


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

As much as I liked some of the smaller towns in the Algarve, I was very much concerned about what would happen in tourist season. Lagos for example was absolutely wonderful in mid-April. But I am told that there is 10 times the population in town roughly a month later. There are some quiet gems in the Algarve that do not get as overrun as Logos but they are pretty far off the beaten path. 

I really liked some of the smaller coastal towns in the area between Porto and Lisbon. Both of the big cities are have lively cultural scenes and are beautiful and fascinating cities. The smaller less tourist oriented towns are less expensive and some had big enough protected harbors that you can sail late in the fall and early in the spring. I also liked that there were fewer ex-pats, and some world class colleges and hospitals in that part of the country. 

I figure its not a bad sail over to the Med, (200 to 300 miles depending on where you start from) And there are some great places to duck in along the way. There are some issue with getting a Portuguese boat operators licence, and also with being able to locate charts of their harbors. It seems to be easy to get offshore charts of Portugal, but the harbor and coastal charts almost seem to be non-existent. 

A man needs a dream! 

Jeff


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## mikel1 (Oct 19, 2008)

You MUST talk to Alex . . . Giulietta . . .remember him . . . If not PM me . . .he is THE man for all things sailing and Portugal . . .


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Bulgaria is still your bargain eu country


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

A few years ago I was in the Algarve in April and May and it was wonderful, but I was told that two months later it would be like spring break in Florida. 

German, French, and English were spoken as commonly as Portuguese. 

I saw a sailboat getting the sh*t beat out of just west of the last lighthouse. It was so windy that porta-potties were blowing over. Later that evening I saw that the boat had made it around the point and was peacefully anchored by Sagres.


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