# "Marine" stereo needed?



## PrinceBuster (Sep 28, 2008)

I'm going to be adding a stereo to my '95 Catalina 320. (it's never had one--don't know how the previous owner went without!)

As it will be mounted inside the cabin, the experienced marine engineer that I'm working with on some other electrical issues told me that I don't need to get a "marine" stereo. I know it won't be directly exposed to the elements, but it seems that it's still a much more humid environment than the typical car faces.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

Kevin


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

Kevin,

IMHO: Listen to your engineer -- a regular car stereo will do fine inside the cabin (unless it's mounted directly below the companionway, that is.) Plenty to choose from, with all the bells and whistles. 

That said, you should be a little more diligent when you actually wire it up. Use adhesive-lined heat-shrink butt connectors, and quality cables.


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## windward54 (Apr 12, 2000)

It is true you can get away with a car stereo. They are about half the price. However, I can't seem to get more then a few years out of a CD player; they just seem to die out on me. The current cd player has given out again (radio portion works fine) so I am switching to a Fusion Ipod docking station instead. No moving parts and I use the Ipod more these days anyway. Only problem is the sole vendor for the Fusion is West Marine.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

windward54 said:


> It is true you can get away with a car stereo. They are about half the price. However, I can't seem to get more then a few years out of a CD player; they just seem to die out on me. The current cd player has given out again (radio portion works fine) so I am switching to a Fusion Ipod docking station instead. No moving parts and I use the Ipod more these days anyway. Only problem is the sole vendor for the Fusion is West Marine.


CD's are soooo 1989. Get an iPod. You can have your entire music collection onboard and never have to mess with jewel cases or loading CD's. I intially longed for a unit with an iPod dock, but after using my FM modulator I've found that it works fine and I can plug it into the 12v jack in the cockpit which allows me to change tunes or pause the music from the helm which is great.

I liked it so much I got over enthusiastic and blew one of my cockpit speakers, so I'll be replacing those before we splash again. For that you do need the marine version.


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## scottbr (Aug 14, 2007)

Regular car stereo works just fine inside the cabin. "Marine" grade is only required if it will be exposed to water or weather i.e. an open cockpit. Definitely look into pod compatible. we plug in the iPod to the front of the stereo and have lots of music without the bulk of Cd's.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Both car and marine units seem to last about the same, I have a marine unit in because I wanted a remote at the helm & I discovered that sometimes you can get a marine stereo pretty cheap. I've attached a website that has a Pyle with 4 speakers on sale for $100. Check Amazon also, that's where I got one cheap.
Overton's - Pyle Hydra Series Marine CD Receiver Package - Marine Stereos > Marine Stereo Packages : Marine Stereos, Boat Stereo Speakers, Packages, Accessories, Antennas


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

I installed a IPod Compatible Sony CD/Radio with a remote from the WalMart for about $200. Works fine and I can use the remote to control the radio & ipod from the cockpit, I just have to have the line of sight with the remote.


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## Pub911 (Oct 25, 2007)

I've got a 10 year-old Alpine mounted inside the cabin that's _just starting to exhibit issues. The volume knob skips around a bit, goes up when you turn it down, etc. but other than that, NO ISSUES. _


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Prince...I have VERY professional experience in car stereos. You will be fine with a standard stereo. Suggest you get one that is IPOD compatible (if you have an Ipod) or has a USB or Aux input jack so you can bring all your tunes with you. 
Further suggest that you get a model with remote control so you can change stations and/volume from the cockpit. 
That's the STEREO...what about speakers...will they be downstairs too or up in the cockpit? Car speakers can be used "upstairs" as well for beter sound and value BUT they must have plastic grills, rubber surrounds on the speaker cones and plastic speaker cones. They should always be ROUND and not oval. Spend at least as much on your speakers as your radio for the best sound.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> Prince...I have VERY professional experience in car stereos. You will be fine with a standard stereo. Suggest you get one that is IPOD compatible (if you have an Ipod) or has a USB or Aux input jack so you can bring all your tunes with you.
> Further suggest that you get a model with remote control so you can change stations and/volume from the cockpit.
> That's the STEREO...what about speakers...will they be downstairs too or up in the cockpit? Car speakers can be used "upstairs" as well for beter sound and value BUT they must have plastic grills, rubber surrounds on the speaker cones and plastic speaker cones. They should always be ROUND and not oval. Spend at least as much on your speakers as your radio for the best sound.


LOL...I asked the same questions as the OP question a long while ago and Camaraderie gave very similar advice then, see my post above  Thanks again Cam!


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## PrinceBuster (Sep 28, 2008)

camaraderie said:


> Prince...I have VERY professional experience in car stereos. You will be fine with a standard stereo. Suggest you get one that is IPOD compatible (if you have an Ipod) or has a USB or Aux input jack so you can bring all your tunes with you.
> Further suggest that you get a model with remote control so you can change stations and/volume from the cockpit.
> That's the STEREO...what about speakers...will they be downstairs too or up in the cockpit? Car speakers can be used "upstairs" as well for beter sound and value BUT they must have plastic grills, rubber surrounds on the speaker cones and plastic speaker cones. They should always be ROUND and not oval. Spend at least as much on your speakers as your radio for the best sound.


Thanks, camaraderie, and everyone else.

I will be using my iPod. Playing CDs would be very infrequent, if at all. I will have speakers in the cockpit and in the cabin. Additionally, I hope to run the TV audio through it for cabin use (the audio sucks on my little 19" flat screen LCD). My engineer has recommended using these Bose 151 speakers mounted under the stern rail seats:










_If_ it will sound good, I'm attracted to this because I like the idea of not having to cut holes into the boat, and because they'll be out of the way. I haven't picked cabin speakers yet.

Kevin


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

if your not adverse to walmart i saw they have a jvc cd player with remote for 80 bucks. it has a ipod jack and a usb charging jack to keep the ipod charged. it was 50 watts by 4 channel, not that thats real number but driving 6 inch speakers it would drive you out of the boat.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Fine...get box speakers...but not sucko ones like the 151's!! Three 2.5" speakers without dedicated tweeters! 
Get a pair of Boston Acoustics Voyager 4's or Polk Atriums which are both in the same price range...Crutchfield has 'em. Let your installer hook up the Bose and the Boston's and compare them at the same loudness. If you don't like the Boston's better you can return 'em easily and come back on here and tell everyone I'm full of ****!! 



















HeyT37...I read your post after I made mine and had forgotten about my earlier advice...My first reaction was ...damn...he knows his stuff!   
Glad it all worked out for ya!


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## PrinceBuster (Sep 28, 2008)

camaraderie said:


> Fine...get box speakers...but not sucko ones like the 151's!! Three 2.5" speakers without dedicated tweeters!
> Get a pair of Boston Acoustics Voyager 4's or Polk Atriums which are both in the same price range...Crutchfield has 'em. Let your installer hook up the Bose and the Boston's and compare them at the same loudness. If you don't like the Boston's better you can return 'em easily and come back on here and tell everyone I'm full of ****!!


Thanks for the specific recommendations. Very helpful!

So the 151's suck, eh? Good to know. I have no reason to believe that the engineer who recommended them knows much about audio.


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## PrinceBuster (Sep 28, 2008)

camaraderie,

While we're at it, what would you recommend for cabin use? I was thinking smaller, but I could go with another pair of the BAs or Polks for inside, but maybe you think there is something more appropriate?

The advice is greatly appreciated!

Kevin


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Go with the car stereo. The advice about cabling, shrink-wrapping, etc. is good. Get a used one, in fact, open it up and apply conformal spray.

Conformal coating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's not a simple topic in terms of choice and technique, but it does extend the life of electronics in humid, salty air, and anything I have that isn't gasketed will get a shot before I hit salt water.

The speakers on the other hand, are partly taste, partly location and partly construction. If they are to nest under the dodger or 95% free from spray, good quality "patio speakers" will do fine. If they are in the cabin, good bookshelf speakers will suffice, but you will fiddle with the mounts as the acoustic qualities of cabins can make music boom and stuff rattle in the lockers (I have PSB Alphas driven by an Arcam Alpha 5 amp aboard, but that's strictly in the dry zone. Classical music set to "five feet from the brass section" in a pilot house is quite something indeed, but on deck I skip the music and listen to the wind.

A tip: If you go the flash drive/MP3 route (and I encourage this as CD players don't really like the movement aboard and they corrode easily), make your own MP3s at a high sample rate from the .cda files on your existing CDs. I suggest 320 kbits EAC. You can look all this stuff up, or get a kid to do it for you.

Happy listening!


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Well...you don't need to be paying for weatherproofing and marinization inside the boat. If you want small speakers you will be sacrificing meaningful bass but Val's PSB Alphas are accurate and a good value even though lacking in bass. A good choice if size is a primary consideration. Their Alpha B1 monitor is a bit bigger but will give you nearly an octave more bass and is in the same price range as your outdoor speakers but with even better sound.

The PSB's may be tough for you to find or a little to big for the interior. Alternatively, I suggest that you might be quite happy with Cambridge Soundworks Newton MC305's which are excellent performers for the money and more amenable to mounting and corner placement which may make them suitable for your needs. That they are 20% off this week is an added bargain!

Cambridge SoundWorks: High Performance Speakers, Home Theater Systems, Table Radios, Multimedia Systems and More









SPEAKER DIMENSIONS







13 1/4" H X 5 1/4"W X 6 1/2"D
Hope this is helpful for you.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Cam, my unusually squarish saloon and steel hull means I get more than enough bass and I chose the PSBs precisely because they wouldn't boom, but you're right that most boats could use a little "keel" in their speaker systems.

I've heard some Boston Acoustics "Voyager" line models that sounded pretty nice to me, but I caution that the speaker conditions in the cockpit and "down below" on most boats could not be more different, and that knob-fiddling, speaker placement and a basic grounding in acoustics will improve the perceived performance of nearly any speaker. Boats are tough because saloons are generally small, low, wide and long spaces with odd shaped furniture and alternating hard and soft reflective surfaces. Experimentation can yield wildly variable results, and sometimes there is only one "sweet spot" in the entire boat for listening, in which case four or six small "desktop" speakers throughout the boat might give better coverage.


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## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

I left a boom box on the boat last summer and the corrosive salt air had it corroded and ruined in that one summer. I have since bought a marine grade system but won't be installing it until this spring.


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## SVCarolena (Oct 5, 2007)

We are also planning to add a sound system this year. Any suggestions on head units? I want something no more than $200 with a good iPod interface and remote (this will be mounted in the saloon). As for the speaker placement, I was thinking of two in the cockpit and two down below. If I go that route do I use the front and back speaker lines off the head unit for inside and outside?


By the way, we have PSB Alphas in our condo, running through our Pioneer Elite receiver. I bought the PSBs back in the early 90s and still love them. When we bought our receiver last year (Yamaha that I bought with the speakers had finally given up), I was very pleased to see that they still make the line. I'd like a bit more bass, but the Admiral keeps reminding me that we live in a condo in the city and have neighbors.


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## ckgreenman (Aug 22, 2008)

A quick search for "clarion marine" on ebay returns several good deals on clarion Marine grade systems. I even saw a couple CMD5 (the top of the line I think) headunits for under $200 with IR remote and free shipping. You can also add the clarion remote display/control (hardwired) and have control in the cockpit while the unit is inside. You can also get an iPod interface that allows you to control the ipod as well.

There are other lower cost models but $177 for a CMD5 is REALLY good. I ALMOST bought one just in case I actually get a new boat.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*I agree*

I agree with Cam the 151 SE speakers are glorified junk. The older 151 Environmental is a much better speaker and they can be purchased at Sam's and BJ's. They are also a 4 ohm rated speaker, not 8 ohm and are quite efficient.

Contrary to what Cam suggests I always suggest using 4 ohm speakers with a car stereo to reduce battery consumption. Let me explain and show why;

Rather than belabor the point I performed a very "real world" test to show why 8 ohm speakers will consume more battery power when run off a car stereo.

For this experiment I used a Trojan deep cycle battery on a charger connected through my multimeter to the stereo set to monitor DC amps. For the test I used two different pairs of speakers a set of KEF 8 Ohm and a set of Symphony 4 ohm speakers. KEF's have always been notorious for being inefficient in terms of SPL ratings and that shows to be true. Yes you can find more efficient 8 ohm speakers but it still does not change the outcome a whole lot. Both speakers were bookshelf type speakers I had kicking around the barn. If I had to guess I'd say the KEF's are about an 87db efficient rated speaker and the Symphony's are about a 92db efficient speaker, but this is just a guess. Regardless of efficiency the 8 ohm speakers use more power at the same exact volume setting and the DVM and SPL meter's are impartial.

The source audio, to be fair and consistent, was a white noise audio test CD that puts out a constant volume and is used to set up home or professional audio systems. Because this is a fixed frequency test CD the power output requirements remain level and constant, unlike a music CD where the volume and amp requirements are constantly changing. Along with measuring DC amps I also measured the sound pressure level with my SPL meter that I use to set up and balance my home theater system.

Below are two very simple photos.

In this first photo the Kenwood stereo is powering the set or 4 ohm rated speakers and the volume is set to 27 the power consumed at volume 27 is 1.62 amps and the SPL meter reads 103db. The SPL was hoovering between 103 & 102 (mostly 102) so to be fair I'll call it 102db not 103db..









In this second photo the Kenwood stereo is powering the set of KEF 8 ohm rated speakers and the volume is also set to 27. The power consumed at volume 27 is 2.12 amps. The SPL meter reads 94 db but to be fair it was hoovering between 95 and 94 (mostly 95) and I happened to catch it at 94. I think it is fair to call it 95db. It should be noted that this is NOT an ideal location for an SPL meter but it was in the same location for both sets of speakers. Unfortunately to catch it all with the camera it needed to be where it was..









At the same volume setting the 8 ohm speakers produced less volume output and consumed roughly 131% more current than the 4 ohm speakers did. While all speakers will be slightly different it is safe to say that 8 ohm speakers will draw more current at a given volume than a comparable set of 4 ohm speakers.

The meters used are 100% impartial. That's why I used an SPL meter because my ears, while fairly good, can't determine a 1db difference in output volume. All things were tested exactly equal at a steady voltage input and the same stereo volume setting and test tone CD....

Car stereos on boats will consume less power using 4 ohm rated speakers and will also generally play a little louder at teh same input volume.

Lets assume that your personal volume comfort volume level is 102db. With the Symphony 4 ohm speakers I used you would consume 1.62 amps to achieve 102db, as in the photo above. If you wanted to achieve the same listening level of 102db with the 8 ohm KEF speakers it would require 4.58 amps (I caught it at 101 but it was bouncing between 101 & 102 the meter is very sensitive) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

















Is it safe to use 8 ohm speakers with a car stereo? Yes & it probably won't hurt it any but it certainly won't save any amp hours..


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Maine, I would question comparing the power consumption versus the impedance of the speakers. The problem is that car speakers in general are oriented towards use in a car, on the road, which means lots of background noise in specific frequency ranges. A home speaker is designed to be used in the quiet of the home. And, if one speaker is designed with a higher bass response than the other--it will suck more power to provide that.

Without knowing that the frequency response of the two speakers is identical--comparing the power consumption and impedance only tells you that one speaker consumes more power than the other. If that's the only important criteria, you hand out headphones and skip the speakers.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Maine...I am afraid I heartily disagree with your analysis...it is flawed in a number of ways. 
1. Impedence is nominal...and not static and it varies by frequency, often wildly. 
2. SPL should be measured at 1W/at one meter ON AXIS on ONE speaker to be compared. SPL has NOTHING to do with Impedence OR Sound Quality.
Why do a make a big deal of this? I believe your KEF's have their coax-woofer/tweeter at the TOP of the cabinets. Your Symphony has the woofer at the bottom and at the edge of the table/cabinet interface which imparts a 3db advantage in efficieny. Probably not quite that much difference real world but real nevertheless.

3. A three db difference in SPL requires TWICE the amplifier power to achieve the same sound level...a 5db difference is a bit more than three times the power for the same sound level.
4. The printed specs are generally meaningless in terms of sonic performance and particularly so when they are for car equipment rather than home. 8 ohm speakers will absolutely NOT harm any car stereo.
5. Only a tin ear would trade sound quality for efficiency! 


... though in general you are correct about car speakers playing louder for a given volume setting on the radio. They also play with less bass and more distortion! I opt for the small increase in power required in exchange for improved sound. Just sign me up for the carbon footprint tax.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

hellosailor said:


> Maine, I would question comparing the power consumption versus the impedance of the speakers. The problem is that car speakers in general are oriented towards use in a car, on the road, which means lots of background noise in specific frequency ranges. A home speaker is designed to be used in the quiet of the home. And, if one speaker is designed with a higher bass response than the other--it will suck more power to provide that.
> 
> Without knowing that the frequency response of the two speakers is identical--comparing the power consumption and impedance only tells you that one speaker consumes more power than the other. If that's the only important criteria, you hand out headphones and skip the speakers.


Both of those book shelf speakers have "claimed" frequency responses that are very, very close. I also fed both speakers the same exact lunch frequency wise and the same volume setting. 8 ohm speakers take more energy to drive than do 4 ohm speakers this is common knowledge in the audio world. Driving 8 ohm loads to the same volume as 4 ohm loads will require more power/consumption from the amplifier..


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

SVCarolena said:


> We are also planning to add a sound system this year. Any suggestions on head units? I want something no more than $200 with a good iPod interface and remote (this will be mounted in the saloon). As for the speaker placement, I was thinking of two in the cockpit and two down below. If I go that route do I use the front and back speaker lines off the head unit for inside and outside?


I'm gonna recommend the Kenwood 592...Does everything you want, has good amplifier section. Controls Ipod and takes usb inputs as well. It is 60 bucks off and down to $140 right now at Crutchfield and I think it is a hell of a deal compared to other stuff at that price point. 









Kenwood Excelon KDC-X592 CD receiver at Crutchfield.com

And YES...you use the fader control to play upstairs and downstairs speakers individually or both together. One set gets wired as "front" the other as "rear".


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Val...I agree entirely with your last post! Spot on.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

camaraderie said:


> 1. Impedence is nominal...and not static and it varies by frequency, often wildly.


Yes fully aware of that.



camaraderie said:


> 2. SPL should be measured at 1W/at one meter ON AXIS on ONE speaker to be compared. SPL has NOTHING to do with Impedence OR Sound Quality.


In an ideal world that is how it is measured. I wanted to capture it all in one frame. The height of the KEF drivers is not that much different when you consider where the mic for the SPL was located. It was reading the ambient room noise generated by teh speakers. I was not comparing "sound quality" if I was the KEFS win hands down. This was mearly showing how much power is required to drive each of these sets of speakers one with a 4 ohm rating and one with an 8 ohm with the same frequency response being played. I also made note of efficiencies and that the KEF's are innefficient compared to the Symphonies despite their impedance. I have owned some very inefficient 8 ohm rated speakers and some very efficient 8 ohm rated speakers.



camaraderie said:


> Why do a make a big deal of this? I believe your KEF's have their coax-woofer/tweeter at the TOP of the cabinets. Your Symphony has the woofer at the bottom and at the edge of the table/cabinet interface which imparts a 3db advantage in efficieny.


How did you determine that a 2" differnece in woofer placement makes a 3db advantage when the mic on the SPL is measuring from behind the speakers, not in front? C'mon neitehr of these speakers is very well damped or internally braced and the 1/2" thick MDF KEF cabinet vibrates about as much as the 1/2" Symphony cabs do. Woofer vibrates so does speaker box..



camaraderie said:


> Probably not quite that much difference real world but real nevertheless.


I know you and I both have very good ears but I could not stand behind two speakers of similar size, that are facing away from me, and tell you where the woofer is palced within 2" up or down in the cabinet and I don't think my SPL can either.



camaraderie said:


> 4. The printed specs are generally meaningless in terms of sonic performance and particularly so when they are for car equipment rather than home.


We all agree on bogus specs! I owned a 150wpc two chanle amplifier that weiged nearly 80 pounds while at the same time owned a $35.00 boom box that was also rated at 150wpc.. Specs are usually totally bogus.



camaraderie said:


> 8 ohm speakers will absolutely NOT harm any car stereo.


Never said they would. The only issue I have noticed, and I used to run a set of very nice sounding 8 ohm Paradigms on my boat, was that to play the same volume my amp heated up more driving the Paradigms than it did driving the MB Quart car speakers, to the same volume which were located in the v-berth.



camaraderie said:


> 4. Only a tin ear would trade sound quality for efficiency!


Yup but there are some very nice sounding 4 ohm speakers out there such as those made by JL Audio that whallop thse Polks or BA's.



camaraderie said:


> ... though in general you are correct about car speakers playing louder for a given volume setting on the radio. They also play with less bass and more distortion! I opt for the small increase in power required in exchange for improved sound. Just sign me up for the carbon footprint tax.


We're in agreement! My only point in showing this was to show POWER CONSUMPTION differences. For many boaters a 130%+ differnce in consumption to achieve the same volume out put is a meaningful amount.. Besides let's face it the vast majority of folks are "TIN EARS"!

I have friends that can listen to 128k iPod rips all day long and 128k quality MP3's make me want to slit my wrist.....


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Quick question....what about those systems with spearate base box and small bookshelf speakers ?

Are any of these suitable for installation onboard ?


I don't mean from the marine grade side but the simple practicality of the generic type.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Maine...Well...glad to see you're not a TOTAL Luddite!!  

Actually...on the subject of speaker table interface...I think you would actually find a noticable difference in the sound in the room if you took that symphony pair off the table and put them on stands at the same height. This is due to the boundary reinforcement that the table provides which is 3db for one surface and 6db for two surfaces (corner placement). If the speakers were larger, you would notice close to the entire 3db boost but as you correctly point out (and I noted as well) the Kef's are still relatively close to the junction but I still think it would make a noticeable difference. 

Next time you can come over to my house and play in the anechoic chamber! (I wish!)


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Fuzzy...you are talking about satellite/subwoofer systems. And yes...you can run them, but most of the decent ones have powered subwoofers for the bass. One solution I like is to use small speakers for placement and then get a self powered car subwoofer tube which you can stash under a setee. 
That WILL eat some big amps though...Probably around 5 for the sub alone. 









You can also get a Bose Accoustimass 5 system with a passive sub but if you're gonna run it from a car stereo you probably would want a separate car amp to drive it. 
Here's another possibility...a porta system!









This actually makes a great deal of sense for a LOT of people. Sound is not great but is a whole lot better than most basic car radio setups. At $179 it is a lot of sound for the money. I've been thinking about one of these for the docks but will have to wait for the birthday fairy to bring one! (Assuming Giu is fully recovered by then!)
Cambridge SoundWorks: High Performance Speakers, Home Theater Systems, Table Radios, Multimedia Systems and More


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## PrinceBuster (Sep 28, 2008)

Wow. What an informative thread. You guys answered my initial question and then some!

So I know I'm being info-greedy, but I'll toss another question your way now. I'm seeking a head unit also, _but_...I want to be able to run my TV audio through it, too.

*Overall goal:* End up with an audio system on the boat that will:


Drive 2 cockpit speakers (Polk Atrium 55's -- thanks, camaraderie!)
Drive 2 cabin speakers (Polk Audio Atrium 45's)
Play music from my iPod (iPod controls a plus but not needed)
Play audio from my TV (the 19" LCD [this one] has crap audio quality)
Upgradeable later to include a subwoofer & external amp (holding off for cost reasons right now)
Must have AM/FM, don't care about CD (but not opposed to it)

Can you recommend a $200-400 head that might fit the bill?

Thanks a ton. The expertise here is invaluable!

Kevin


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## ckgreenman (Aug 22, 2008)

Here's what I would recommend.

CLARION CMD5 MARINE/BOAT AUDIO/STEREO CD/MP3 PLAYER AUX - eBay (item 390027629127 end time Feb-28-09 20:03:22 PST)

It has an Aux input and you can get the Ce-NET ipod adapter and/or the Sirius satellite adapter. This one is $177 with free shipping.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Prince...the one I already recommended will do ALL that! I plan ahead!!


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

How do you guys hear the ripple lapping against the hull?


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## ckgreenman (Aug 22, 2008)

Microphones in the bilge.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I got a marine Alpine stereo, but I didn't intend to when I was buying. I found an Alpine stereo I wanted and it turned out the marine version was 40$us more so i was like ... umm, ok.


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## PrinceBuster (Sep 28, 2008)

ckgreenman said:


> Here's what I would recommend.
> 
> _[CLARION-CMD5 on eBay.]_
> 
> It has an Aux input and you can get the Ce-NET ipod adapter and/or the Sirius satellite adapter. This one is $177 with free shipping.


Thanks!



camaraderie said:


> Prince...the one I already recommended will do ALL that! I plan ahead!!


You da man. 



bubb2 said:


> How do you guys hear the ripple lapping against the hull?


Heh, heh. Point taken.

But I'll bet I'm not the only sailor here who _sometimes_ loves the sound of nothing but ripples on the hull and a halyard on the mast...but at other times finds music enriches the whole thing.

Plus I'm a musician, too. Gotta have music!


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I usually only have the stereo on at dock or on the hard, particularly when I'm working on the boat.

While sailing I listen to the mellifluous tones of bozos yelling "hello, hello?" on 16. (sigh)


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## SVCarolena (Oct 5, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> I'm gonna recommend the Kenwood 592...Does everything you want, has good amplifier section. Controls Ipod and takes usb inputs as well. It is 60 bucks off and down to $140 right now at Crutchfield and I think it is a hell of a deal compared to other stuff at that price point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, Cam - I'll probably make the order today and call it a Valentine gift for the Admiral (she has been asking for tunes since we bought the boat). Looking at the specs, does this mean we could have a DVD going in the Saloon while also running the ipod in the cockpit? 
"Dual Zone: The Dual Zone mode allows you to output the Main source and the Auxiliary input separately for the front and rear channels. You can select whether the auxiliary input will play in the front or the rear."


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## WouldaShoulda (Oct 7, 2008)

Valiente said:


> I usually only have the stereo on at dock or on the hard, particularly when I'm working on the boat.
> 
> While sailing I listen to the mellifluous tones of bozos yelling "hello, hello?" on 16. (sigh)


I do bring this with me...










...and just tune into a ball game or The Time Machine on WNAV Saturday afternoons...

http://www.1430wnav.com/bio/timemachine.htm


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

SVC...yeah...dual zone lets you play one source upstairs while at the same time playing something else downstairs. One of the two sources must come in through the auxilliary jack. This would be useful for your TV downstairs with music in the cockpit from IPOD/CD or Radio. Neat feature but a bit complex to set up and control individual volumes...but if the TV has variable OUTPUT to it's jacks then you can set the aux volume quite high and just use the TV remote to control the volume from the set rather than the radio.

Note that some TV's have FIXED audio output jacks, variable audio output jacks and a variable output headphone jack. Either of the latter two can be used in the scenario above.


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## SVCarolena (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks again, Cam. Ok, last 2 questions (sorry to have hijacked the thread), what do you recommend in the way of flush mount cockpit speakers (rather than box)? And do you think it is feasible to mount them inside the combing boxes? I hate the idea of cutting 4 to 6 inch holes in the fiberglass.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

SVC...Flush mount means cutting a hole in the fiberglass. Surface mount means a box. It is not clear from your post what you want...but you already have my box mount recommendation above. 
For flush mount, here are a couple of choices depending on your budget:
Polk Audio db651 6-1/2" 2-way car speakers
or 
Infinity 602m's 6.5" 2 ways.
Both available at Crutchfield and elsewhere & provide good sound.

Also over at BestBuy...the Rockford612 6.5" 2-ways are also good but more of an up front rock oriented sound. I had the Infinity's myself. I actually like their CAR 6.5"'s better but they've changed grills to metal so I cannot recommend them. The 602m's are just not quite as articulate in the high treble as the car version.

As to placing them in the coaming boxes...only if you seal the coamings up! Box speakers are the only solution if you don't want to cut. Yes...you can find small box speakers to ft inside the combings...but the sound will be crap compared to what we've discussed above.Still...sometimes crappy sound is beter than none though!


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## SVCarolena (Oct 5, 2007)

Yes, I meant surface. I'm going to have to think about the speakers - I don't like the idea of large box speakers hanging off the pushpit and don't want to cut large holes in the cockpit. Maybe I'll see about some sort of articulating arms to mount the speakers in the cabin, but be able to turn them out through the companionway for cockpit sound (something like some people use for their VHF and GPS). That option would allow for cockpit sound, and a four speaker setup in the saloon (assuming two additional speakers down below).


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

ask yourself if the house on the waterfront has to have marine rated electronic's because they live in a salt air environment. 

Answer's no.

ask yourself if their stuff breaks more often or corrodes faster, answer is probably yes.

So you really want a radio that last 15 years? How good is that radio from 15 year ago's, the one with no HD, no IPOD no remote control, no - you get the point by now or you don't.

Get the regular one, treat it like a Bic lighter, when it's out it's disposable.

BTW I use a a battery powered Ipod player in my cockpit far more than my installed stereo. Bose makes 'em, but so do many others. Sounds better than any marine gear on the market and is totally mobile if I move to the bow.


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## funjohnson (Aug 20, 2008)

I have 4ohm flush mounted speakers in the cabin, but want box speakers for the cockpit. All the cockpit speakers I look at seem to be 8ohm. Can I run 4ohm to the front and 8ohm to the rears?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Johnson...yes...no problem.


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## sab30 (Oct 11, 2006)

ckgreenman said:


> A quick search for "clarion marine" on ebay returns several good deals on clarion Marine grade systems. I even saw a couple CMD5 (the top of the line I think) headunits for under $200 with IR remote and free shipping. You can also add the clarion remote display/control (hardwired) and have control in the cockpit while the unit is inside. You can also get an iPod interface that allows you to control the ipod as well. QUOTE]
> 
> I did buy and M475 Marine Clarion from Ebay and installed it on the boat. WAyyyyy better than the stock system provided, easy to install, and cheap..just over $100 on ebay. Lots of power and sounded great. Also has the IPOD connection and dont forget about Sat (XM/Sirius) The sat adapter is about $70 (also on ebay) but still a good price for a complete system.


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## ckgreenman (Aug 22, 2008)

sab30 said:


> ckgreenman said:
> 
> 
> > A quick search for "clarion marine" on ebay returns several good deals on clarion Marine grade systems. I even saw a couple CMD5 (the top of the line I think) headunits for under $200 with IR remote and free shipping. You can also add the clarion remote display/control (hardwired) and have control in the cockpit while the unit is inside. You can also get an iPod interface that allows you to control the ipod as well. QUOTE]
> ...


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## TaylorC (May 15, 2008)

*Avoid IPOD controls*

I fell for the IPOD control thing. Avoid it. The best control for an ipod is an ipod, the user interface is intuitive and fast. I got a unit from Dual that controls the ipod, and its a complete waste of time. I can never find the song I want and I have to push and turn and push and jump through menus. Avoid the whole thing and plug your ipod in with a RCA jack cable or an ipod mini headphone plug adapter and be done with it.


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## ckgreenman (Aug 22, 2008)

I had a friend of mine install a Pioneer unit in his H3 that had an iPod interface. when you plugged in the iPod and switched to iPod mode it actually displayed a duplicate of the iPod controls and display on the touchscreen. Works and looks exactly like a regular ipod.


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## modul8 (Oct 26, 2008)

if you're gonna bring your ipod, why not just use your earbuds and save yourself hours of unnecessary work stringing wires and cutting holes in your baby? You could be out sailing instead!


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## PrinceBuster (Sep 28, 2008)

modul8 said:


> if you're gonna bring your ipod, why not just use your earbuds and save yourself hours of unnecessary work stringing wires and cutting holes in your baby? You could be out sailing instead!


That might work...if I only sail alone and don't ever need to hear anything else around me. 

Update on my thread-starting question - I settled on this combo:

*Alpine IDA-X100 Digital Media Receiver*
Alpine iDA-X100 Digital media receiver at Crutchfield.com

*Cabin: Polk Audio Atrium 45, Black*
Newegg.com - Polk Audio Atrium 45 Black Indoor/Outdoor all-weather speaker Pair

*Cockpit (under stern rail seats): Polk Audio Atrium 55, White*
Newegg.com - Polk Audio Atrium 55 White Indoor/Outdoor all-weather speaker Pair

It sounds fantastic!

Thanks again to camaraderie and everyone else for the really helpful suggestions.

Kevin


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

You're welcome Kevin...glad it all worked out! Isn't it amazing how much better the sound CAN be without spending more $$!!??
For those interested, I have a rather more complete dissertation on car stereo and IPOD control installations over on AS...here.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

PrinceBuster;445720
As it will be mounted inside the cabin said:


> NO, NO, NO ! Please don't listen to your electrical engineer friend. A regular car stereo on a boat, won't work for long. Not unless your cabin is more like your house -- climate controled and you never open a hatch in humid or windy days. If you are a salt water sailor you have salt in the air all the time. A truly marinized stereo has two things that a car stereo does not: a plastic coated circuit board and a plastic protective shield over the top of the radio. Even if you keep your radio in a place where it will never get splashed you have to protect it from condensation, which can drip into the guts of an unprotected car stereo. If you really think there is no difference between a regular car stereo and a marinized stereo head unit, I suggest you go into a marine electronics store and open up a JBL, Seaworthy or Infinity brand marinized head unit. These are reasonably priced (maybe even cheap!) but full featured marine radios made by Prospec. You will see the plastic protective shield immediately. It doesn't look like much, but that and the coated circuit board inside make these radios last for many years on a boat. How do I know? I learned the hard way. My 2000 boat came with a very nice high powered Sony car cassette stereo, which died after 2 years. I replaced it with a better car CD made by JVC. The JVC died died after only 1 year! I replaced that one with a far cheaper refurbished Seaworthy brand CD player. I figured that I would spend as little as possible because whatever I put on my boat was doomed anyway! The "refurbished" Seaworthy brand -- that I'd never heard of before --- set me back only about $70. Guess what, the cheap Seaworthy brand thing still works! I removed it last weekend because we want to play IPOD and CD-RWs, which the old thing can't play. I will probably get $50.00 for it on E-Bay. But maybe not, marine stereos have gotten cheap because the aftermarket for car stereos has practically disappeared in the last 5 years. So the JBL MR-4 unit I bought this weekend cost me less than $50.00 at now bankrupt Boater's World. Normally, expect to pay about $100 to $150 for a JBL or Seaworthy brand unit. I would NOT buy a name brand high powered car stereo unit. I think that better units for the marine environment can be had for much less.
> 
> I felt so strongly about this I had to register on this forum.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Dadeo7432 said:


> NO, NO, NO ! Please don't listen to your electrical engineer friend. A regular car stereo on a boat, won't work for long.


Perhaps you should spend more time here, there are many of us who have had vastly different results from your experiences. I've been running car stereos on multiple different boats for well over 20 years now. Not one single car unit has failed.

Last summer I had a chance to meet up with one of our old boats, a Catalina 30, which we sold in 1997. The same stereo I had installed in 1996, a Sony car deck, was playing a CD while we had cocktails in the cockpit 12 years later.

I have a Kenwood in my barn that came out of my current boat due to an upgrade to an iPod ready unit. This stereo is still in perfect working condition and has zero signs of corrosion. It was in this boat for roughly five years.

Perhaps you've never lived in Maine near the ocean where we get fog, lots of it. We also see massive temp swings and temps in the winter that reach 30 below F. If you think a car stereo does not see some condensation or moist air then you have not spent much time where my stereos live.

I have also worked on mega yachts with 30k Mark Levinson sound systems that are no where near marinized.

There are many of us using car stereos who have not had your experience. The only car stereo I ever had fail was in fact a JVC but it was in my car so maybe JVC's are just more prone to failure..

Perhaps if corrosion is that big of a problem you may have some leaks to deal with??


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

I installed a new JVC DVD super unit.. on mine. If you install non-marine or non-warrantied equipment - make sure it does not suffer the impact of leaks. When I pulled mine after gutting the interior (6 months since I installed)... there was evidence of corrosion of the casing from leaks from the chain plate (it was installed under it)... It still works fine... but take precautions when installing to minimize such influences..


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Jody makes a good point*



artbyjody said:


> I installed a new JVC DVD super unit.. on mine. If you install non-marine or non-warrantied equipment - make sure it does not suffer the impact of leaks. When I pulled mine after gutting the interior (6 months since I installed)... there was evidence of corrosion of the casing from leaks from the chain plate (it was installed under it)... It still works fine... but take precautions when installing to minimize such influences..


Jody makes a good point. I also highly doubt that many marinized units warranty would cover water leaks and drips onto the unit directly other than on a sealed marinized face.

if you have leaks it would be wise to fix them or not to install a stereo there.

This is my five +/- year old Kenwood I just snapped the photos.. I wondered where that disc had gone..?


















Oh and yes this unit did see some humidity..


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## negrini (Apr 2, 2008)

I had a regular stereo (Pioneer then Roadstar) that ran nicely for +10 years. I can't say about actual unities. My recent Sony MP3 just shows some reluctancy on volume knob (the remote works fine), but that could be just a faulty unity .... or newer stereos wont stand like old ones ????


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

car stereos see lots of humidity too. i have a sony in a 1975 porsche, that is a targa top that leaks. that radio has been fine for years, including when i drive it in the rain with a towel on my lap for the foggy windows and leaks.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

As someone who has several decades of *professional *car stereo experience I can absolutely state that mounting a radio in a dry cabin is just fine. Normal salt air and humidity etc. will NOT cause the degradation of a standard car stereo. The ONLY reason to get a marinized model is if the radio will b exposed to the elements in the cockpit. 
The advice to ONLY get a marinized unit is unsupported and simply wrong. The stereos that fail are the ones built like crap.


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## drynoc (Jul 17, 2001)

*You're all on drugs*

Both of my boats have stereos, but I never listen to them. I go boating to get away from all that. I want to hear either that delicious, low, throaty rumble of a pair of V8's, or the breath of God.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Upon seeing pictures of the "small" boats you guys are putting car stereos into, I think I understand why they work. You guys have what look like fairly good sized sail and power boats that are plenty bigger than my 19 foot fish and ski. Plus I've got kids who can get every inch of the inside soaking wet. Wet kid hands play with the buttons, leave the enclosure open and shove damp CDs into my radio. I also expect that my 19 footer does not ride as smooth. I wish I took a picture before I installed my new stereo. Needless to say you can NOT see the CD inside it like you can yours. The top is sealed with plastic and there are no holes in the sides, back or the bottom of the chasis. The amplifier's heatsink is coated. There were instructions and sealent tape to seal up the holes where the CD player transit screws are removed. This thing claims it is splashproof and I believe it is. 45 Watts per four channels for $50.00.


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## jbondy (Mar 28, 2001)

The Clarion automobile unit in Pokey only accepts cassettes. It must be at least 20 years old and still works fine. I have to use one of those funky cassette adaptors to give me an AUX in that I used to use with a portable CD player and now use with my iPod. If it ain't broke, I don't fix it.


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## Deadeye (Jan 8, 2009)

Just curious Dadeo, but since the vents are taped over and the heat sink is coated how does your stereo dissipate the heat ?


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## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

*Ressurrection Time?*



TaylorC said:


> I fell for the IPOD control thing. Avoid it. The best control for an ipod is an ipod, the user interface is intuitive and fast. I got a unit from Dual that controls the ipod, and its a complete waste of time. I can never find the song I want and I have to push and turn and push and jump through menus. Avoid the whole thing and plug your ipod in with a RCA jack cable or an ipod mini headphone plug adapter and be done with it.


West Marine had the Dual unit on for $99.00 (internet special) around Christmas time so a went for it. I am now in the process of installation and decided to read through this thread first.
One of the things that is not very clear to me is the iPod compatability. The Dual does have a iPod support and a USB port and plays CD's or MP3 but this is where I get confused. The CD is a storage device and the head unit plays this storage device same as the iPod plays it's internal files. So why do I need an iPod player, can I not use one of those little thumb drive storage devices (looks like a Bic lighter with a USB port) and plug it into the USB port and play music stored on it in MP3 format? Someone mentioned they use the USB port to power the iPod while it is plugged in. I can't quite understand the the need for the iPod even though it sounds like I have to get one. I have not bought it yet but I am seriously contemplating getting the Apple iPod 8G to use for music. Can someone please explain why a simple little thumb drive cannot replace the iPod? If it is the player then what is the head unit that plays CD's, is it not a player too. Do I have to buy an iPod?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Ease of use is the main reason. Getting music onto an iPod is far simpler than doing so to other brands of MP3 players or even thumb drives. The software interface for an iPod greatly simplifies ripping your own CDs, making play lists or copying music. There is a very good reason over 80% of the MP3 player market is held by iPods of various flavors.


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## DwayneSpeer (Oct 12, 2003)

Unless you're really into spending money don't waste it on an iPod. If your stereo supports mp3 on a thumb drive it's far easier and cheaper to use. If you want to rip your own music you can use the windows media player that came with your copy of Windows XP (and probably Vista too but I don't know that) to rip them. Just rip the music and then use Windows Explorer to copy it to your thumb drive. For the price of an iPod you can buy a lot of thumb drives.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"Can someone please explain why a simple little thumb drive cannot replace the iPod?"
If you ALREADY OWN AN IPOD, that connection is critical because all your tunes are on the Ipod.

If you don't own an Ipod, don't worry about it. A friend of mine was using XM on their old car, just got a new one with a 6-disc changer that takes MP3 format CDs. Well..you can fit 10-12 whole albums on one CD in MP3 format, so we figure that's 72 albums of music we just burned to the six discs that are now loaded in the changer. About 60 HOURS of music without anything repeating, goodbye XM!

Memory cards, USB sticks, all equally good. It is whatever works for you. Transferring music onto USB sticks tends to be very much slower than transferring it to SD cards and some other formats--but they'll play just the same, either way. Whatever works for you!


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## PrinceBuster (Sep 28, 2008)

*Re: You're all on drugs*



drynoc said:


> Both of my boats have stereos, but I never listen to them. I go boating to get away from all that. I want to hear either that delicious, low, throaty rumble of a pair of V8's, or the breath of God.


Whatever works for you...but why is anyone with a different view "on drugs"? It seems like a long thread on marine stereos with lots of interested posters for you to just decide everyone with a different opinion is wrong.

Some (like me) find the "low, throaty rumble of a pair of V8's" about the most grating thing that can be heard hear while on the water.

Just sayin'...


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## endeavour33 (Jan 5, 2008)

Car stereos are just fine try to mount it so that you can get line of sight and buy one with a remote.
I have had great luck in mounting the automotive speaker (without any boxes) in the aft liner skin of the cabin that fibreglass skin between the back of the doghouse and the interior liner
Be sure that there is enough space between these two where you plan to install them then just cut a hole and fish the wires between and out of sight them usually there is a place at the bottom where you can peek or perhaps there is an opening port or somewhere where you can determine this without making a hole but usually there is a difference of shape ( contour) between the exterior and interior of the cabin and that indicates a space between them it will be hollow in production boats like yours, and that will help in bass response .
This placement puts the speakers up a bit and not in anyone's ear unless you are sitting on the galley sink 
This is much more comfortable when you are entertaining in the cabin no one has to have a peaker in their left ear .

Otherwise give a lot of thought as to where the speakers are going to be mounted , so often people seem to mount them where they are pretty but pretty annoying to be sitting beside


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## OsmundL (Nov 11, 2008)

Lot’s of great advice here, but I am surprised there is no mention of a PC? 
You may have the least number of units/cables to worry about if you make use of your portable together with a car radio console. I am assuming your latest PC was bought some time later than the 1990s… and it would be extra delicious if it is a Mac (apologies) 

One suggestion: 
•	In the PC/Mac you already have iTunes, probably a combined CD/DVD player, outputs for audio and VGA/HDMI connections for video. 
•	A half-decent car radio – I use Alpine, works great – has iPod input (but does not need it if you use the PC/Mac); outputs for the speakers and normally a fader for front and rear – call that “cabin” and “cockpit”. 
•	The PC/Mac can also easily be fitted with a tiny not wildly expensive TV tuner, often via USB.
•	Now all you need is a monitor to display those images, unless the PC/Mac display is good enough. If you already have a VGA monitor in the cabin for the chart display, there’s your DVD/TV display. If you don’t, then a standalone plain domestic display – or rather a 12V, could be both your chart and instrument display, doubling up for the entertainment. Many of the smaller domestic units – often sold as “TV” but who cares, you have that already – may be sold for mains voltage, but on inspection you can bypass the transformer and go straight in with 12V. Cheaper than buying those expensive “marine” displays.
•	Finally, the PC/Mac has yet another interesting source: they will have inputs for a digital camera or even video camera, so you can also show cruising footage on the spot, or even attach a surveillance camera – infrared? Now we’re really getting fancy. 

I think the core idea here is that your PC/Mac has all the media options you may need, even if some of them are way into the future.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

A computer makes a lousy stereo. Among other things it has no audio power to speak of and you'll need an external amplifier to run real speakers from it. 

Yes, I know there are "powered" speakers, but they're generally a POS designed for half-deaf kids sitting at the computer, they're not in the same league as the range of options you get with real speakers and a real stereo. Nor are they plug-n-play to a twelve volt power system. Half-deaf? Yeah, a lot of teens already have severe hearing loss from cranking the phones up too loud, or the superbass car stereos. 

Same with MP3 files, the kids with IPods usually have no idea how bad they sound at the typical compression levels, compared to music that hasn't traded off quality, either on CDs, DVDs, or simply full-quality digital formats.


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## OsmundL (Nov 11, 2008)

hellosailor said:


> A computer makes a lousy stereo. Among other things it has no audio power to speak of and you'll need an external amplifier to run real speakers from it.
> 
> Yes, I know there are "powered" speakers, but they're generally a POS designed for half-deaf kids sitting at the computer, they're not in the same league as the range of options you get with real speakers and a real stereo.


You did not read precisely. The whole point is to use the computer as an audio source, as you do a pre-amp, almost. Power is what the "car radio" is for - by which I mean of course a fully amplified system driving its own speakers.

As far as processing audio goes - not amplifying it - most computers are up there with good home audio, with proper DSPs, the lot. The system I describe above is not out of the ordinary.


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## maccauley123 (Sep 2, 2004)

I am going the car stereo route. I found one with a cassette deck and 4" speakers on ebay for $25. I don't care about the cassette as I only wanted the radio and aux input for my Ipod. Brand new and still in box so should work well.


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## FormerAdministrator (Jan 10, 2000)

I'll add my humble .02 here too.

I've been looking hard for the last few weeks for a new stereo since mine was stolen from the boat at the end of last season.

I decided the CD's were getting shelved and I'd put all of my music on a thumb drive. I don't even want a CD player.

I have a friend with a Kenwood and he thinks highly of it. I've seen one in person and I plugged my thumb drives into it. (my only requirement is that the USB plug be on the front of the unit. It display and organized music from the memory card 'fairly well'.

I an not an Ipod person and I do not own an mp3 player. I listen to NPR almost exclusively when driving so I'm not into music when driving.

The most important thing for me was how well does the unit read, organize and let me access music files in the memory card (thumb drive). I wanted a stereo that did a 'great' job organizing and displaying music.

The Kenwood was one of the finalists, but I've decided on the Sony CDX-GT730UI because it was designed with reading a memory card through it's USB port in mind to organize and display stored music. I've found some pretty good pricing on it also.

Many of the other units I've looked at seem to be Ipod focused and reply on the Ipod or MP3 player to interface with the user for music selection.

like I said - just my humble .02

Sony CDX-GT730UI CD Receiver MP3/WMA/AAC Player with USB 1-wire Connection


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

OsmundL said:


> You did not read precisely. The whole point is to use the computer as an audio source, as you do a pre-amp, almost. Power is what the "car radio" is for - by which I mean of course a fully amplified system driving its own speakers.
> 
> As far as processing audio goes - not amplifying it - most computers are up there with good home audio, with proper DSPs, the lot. The system I describe above is not out of the ordinary.


The problem with doing this is energy consumption. My MacBook Pro, depending upon the software running, can consume nearly 7.5 amps through a 400 W inverter. Even my PC based laptop pulls upwards of 6.8 amps when run straight from the DC source. I can run my car stereo at a fairly loud clip of volume (103db) and burn only 1.6 amps. The lowest I have ever seen my MacBook Pro draw was about 2.8 amps with basically no software running.

If you add a pair of powered speakers or an amplifier to a laptop you could easily be well over 9 amps of current draw vs. well under 2 amps for a car stereo..


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## TaylorC (May 15, 2008)

*Tivoli PAL?*

Here is another alternative - the Tivoli PAL










Tivoli PAL® Radio

I've grown up in a audiophile household - our living room had a Klipschorn, and I went through the speaker building thing in the 70's, plus work in alternative FM and mixing for a band. But the older I get, the more the simple things appeal to me, and this is a great product. Disclaimer - I'm not associated with the company, but I now have three PAL's in different locations, and they get used a lot.

The PAL has an internal battery that will run for hours, and you can charge off of 12 volt (draws 500ma to charge). You can plug an Ipod into the back. The sound is very neutral and easy to like, designer is responsible for the classic Advent sound. Maybe a bit more treble would be good, but my ear's response curve has rolled off some over the years.

Since my boat is a bit bigger and teakier (that should be a word) I'm trying something a bit different, I picked up a used Tivoli Model 2 table radio on ebay with a subwoofer, and those also have 12V inputs, so I'm going to use them for the cabin, and move my car style tuner for use in the cockpit.


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## OsmundL (Nov 11, 2008)

Maine Sail said:


> The problem with doing this is energy consumption. My MacBook Pro, depending upon the software running, can consume nearly 7.5 amps through a 400 W inverter. Even my PC based laptop pulls upwards of 6.8 amps when run straight from the DC source.


It is not a problem, the way I have described it. Each person will arrive at a solution from their own current situation, and of course some of the details are not needed or wanted by some.

When I started off with a PC, it was as stated on the assumption that you already have one or plan one for navigation use, which is quite common. In that case you must already have been through the Amp calculations. Of course, if you do not use a PC onboard, you would not acquire one only for audio or video use.

Power consumption was crucial in the system sketched. It means that you _can hav_e a full-blown setup with audio and video when power is available, either on shore power or for use with a generator. *When on basic 12V, you have the lowest consumption possible*, using only the iPod with the radio setup. Also, you could get quite some mileage out of the MacBook Pro running on batteries. Flexibility is key.

I absolutely agree that running a PC via inverter is a lousy idea, as much as running _any_ media component via the inverter. My own inverter (Mastervolt) would already draw more than the appliance. If you _were_ to plan a system based on the inverter, better ditch the battery PC altogether and try a Mac Mini on mains voltage. The current model is promised to draw 13W on idle, and 110W at maximum draw, pretty modest.

For the record, I run a system approx. as described, and it is a pure joy. With Polk Audio speakers in cockpit, the sound is sweet.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Like the admin & MaineSail note...Did I mention, a computer makes a lousy stereo? (G)

If you want to use the computer as a music source, by all means store music on a hard drive, but then spool it off to a flash memory stick or an SD card. A cheap SD card (2-4-8GB) for under $20 will hold a about 12 LPs worth of music per GB in MP3 format. That's a hefty six hours plus per GB on a card that needs no power and can plug right into a stereo. With no expensive screen, keyboard, bouncing hard drive, needed on the boat.

A 32GB flash stick is about $60 these days, that's even more music, again plugs right in without any further complications. And if you leave the computer ashore, the boat is six or seven pounds lighter and faster, too. (G)


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## OsmundL (Nov 11, 2008)

hellosailor said:


> Like the admin & MaineSail note...Did I mention, a computer makes a lousy stereo?


Like I said, read my description if you don't want to go off on a tangent. I said "if you already have one for charts." The same goes for having a screen onboard. If you're only sailing 50 yds from shore in a dinghy, then of course the six pounds of weight is an issue.

The iPod _is_ a memory stick. Have as many sticks as you want for storage, but for simple selection of music I'd still want iPod - _or_ the computer - _or_ a radio with iPod controls.

On a cruise I also like the computer for being able to acquire new music, to compress from available CDs, for dealing with digital photos and video, and so forth. If all I wanted was to "play music" then we're in 1970s territory and the simplest is a boom box on batteries.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

From a power consumption standpoint... using a computer, even if you already have one for charts, is a lousy solution. Electricity is a scarce resource on a boat....and a dedicated stereo makes much more sense. Also, if the computer dies, you lose both your navigation PC and your music system... which really sucks, since it becomes a single point of failure.


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## OsmundL (Nov 11, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> From a power consumption standpoint... using a computer, even if you already have one for charts, is a lousy solution. Electricity is a scarce resource on a boat....and a dedicated stereo makes much more sense. Also, if the computer dies, you lose both your navigation PC and your music system... which really sucks, since it becomes a single point of failure.


It appears that I really provoked some, mentioning a PC   
I am trying to be helpful, and the configuration was fairly clearly aimed at cruising boats. Personally, I do not rely on a PC for navigation, for all the reasons you mention. I do have one as backup, and it is my mobile office.

It is a fact - a patently obvious fact - that PCs onboard have become very common, and form part of the systems in all suppliers' brochures. One can assume it has a lot to do with cost - a good few sailors try to avoid upwards of $US 3,000 for all but the smallest chart plotters, and considerably more for complete systems. Add to that the steadily growing crop of sailing software - all the way from grib files to e-mail solutions via SSB or Iridium phone modems, to regatta performance software and weather routing, logging software with direct GPS-PC connection - need I go on? The NMEA 2000 standard specifically aims at PCs, and a whole new generation of engines from Volvo to Yanmar come with inbuilt electronic management made for placing virtual instruments on the PC. People with such installations have already thought of solar panels, wind or towing generators in their power budget, or the power hungry have gone for diesel aggregates. If they have, it is to power truly power-hungry equipment such as the autopilot and radar, an order of magnitude greater drains. The prevalence of PCs aboard cruising boats suggests that they're considered far from "lousy." Not my opinion, just an observation.

As for the "dedicated stereo", I'm not even going there. I included one in the the set-up in the first place. What I did suggest was to focus that on amp power and connections, rather than opting for a box with all the bells and whistles.

I am fairly confident that onboard PCs will become ever more common, regardless of weaknesses. Some might even wonder that it needs to be said, in 2009.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

OsmundL...whatever works for you man. Nothing wrong with the approach as long as you can afford the amphours at anchor when you will not be using the PC for navigation. 
With even $75 radios with ipod inputs today, I think most will go the low amp easy route...even though the PC will have lots of other uses. Amp power and connections are NON issues in todays car stereos.


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## OsmundL (Nov 11, 2008)

camaraderie said:


> OsmundL...whatever works for you man. Nothing wrong with the approach as long as you can afford the amphours at anchor when you will not be using the PC for navigation.
> With even $75 radios with ipod inputs today, I think most will go the low amp easy route...even though the PC will have lots of other uses. Amp power and connections are NON issues in todays car stereos.


Yes, quite! That wasn't so hard, was it?  

As I said in the original spec: *"A half-decent car radio - I use Alpine, works great - has iPod input"* - that's your low amp route right there.

And then, you have the options... but I think we're done here.


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## OsmundL (Nov 11, 2008)

Sorry, but all the low amp talk gave me the giggles   
I have to give away a secret: when crawling into the bunk, I pull out the little Sangean MF/SF receiver one is meant to carry at sea. With all boat systems off, it’s sweet dreams on three AA batteries, can’t do better than that?

Now it's definitely oo from me.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Zune it myself!  (Just because I hate Apple more than I hate Microsoft!)


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## dryclean (May 7, 2009)

Although the input for the Ipod is great on a unit. An Ipod on a boat is not. It has a moving hard drive and the motion of sailing especially into a chop will damaged the drive. Best to use an Ipod type unit with a flash drive (no moving parts)


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

If the iPod is properly secured, it really isn't much of an issue.


dryclean said:


> Although the input for the Ipod is great on a unit. An Ipod on a boat is not. It has a moving hard drive and the motion of sailing especially into a chop will damaged the drive. Best to use an Ipod type unit with a flash drive (no moving parts)


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## dryclean (May 7, 2009)

Although the input for the Ipod is great on a unit. An Ipod on a boat is not. It has a moving hard drive and the motion of sailing especially into a chop will damaged the drive. Best to use an Ipod type unit with a flash drive (no moving parts)


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

That is bogus....they are designed to take a pounding. And computers with hard drives that are NOT built for sea, don't have hard drive failures. Hell...Apple makes jogging accessories for them.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

cam-
Have to disagree on that, from experience.
"And computers with hard drives that are NOT built for sea, don't have hard drive failures. " On the contrary, they DO fail regularly. Check any drive maker's specs, there are ratings for g-shock in and out of use. Now, in the past year most drive makers have made available new technology (previously held very tightly and not licensed out) where the drive itself has a solid-state accelerometer onboard and the drive itself is able to lift and park the heads before every impact. That used to be a very expensive high-end feature.

You'll probably find the iPod has that technology, as well as a buffer that stores enough music in solid state memory so that the drive heads can be lifted before a shock, and repositioned after it, without interrupting the music.

But take an HP or IBM (Lenovo) laptop, both of which use the same technology on the motherboard or the drive, and all you have to do is swing the laptop from left to right and you can see the "drive protection" icon light up, and multimedia offerings simply stop until the drive thinks it is safe to resume operation.

There is a LOT of advanced technology going into what may appear to be simple hard drives in motion these days.

Six or seven years ago, I damaged a hard drive and took a data loss simply because the laptop it was in was running in a car while I went over some railroad tracks. The laptop was "safely" in the passenger footwell instead of on the passenger seat--and that's enough of a shock to damage a running hard drive, if there's no other technology involved.

You'll see the same concept on "sports" CD players, and some car players, they often have a 15 to 30 second flash memory buffer so they can play music uninterrupted when the drive goes bounce and the head has to be repositioned. 

Still a good point though: Why rely on invisible active technologies, when you can just use flash memory and not have any problems with "more stuff to fail" and moving parts?


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Really???*



dryclean said:


> Although the input for the Ipod is great on a unit. An Ipod on a boat is not. It has a moving hard drive and the motion of sailing especially into a chop will damaged the drive. Best to use an Ipod type unit with a flash drive (no moving parts)


Tell that to my iPod that has been on board now for four years. In the winter it's the same iPod my wife works out with on the tread mill or jogging which is far more jarring to the hard drive than use on a sailboat. The motion of a boat is far less intense than that of a car, on spring time pot hole filled roads, in the North East.

I used to be able to get the CD player in my car to skip 70-100 times per spring with the crappy roads. The CD player on the boat, during that same vintage, no matter how rough it was had never skipped once.

I agree with Cam bogus info when referring to the iPod as it buffers the music and oly spins the hard drive every so often..

Oh and I still own a G1 iPod I purchased in 2001 when they first came out and it still works great. It is now my barn iPod. It was retired from boat use when I upgraded to the generation 2 iPod. I have had 7+ years of iPod use on boats and not one single issue or failure other than one battery on my G1 unit which Apple replaced no-charge..

P.S. Sitting on the boat right now listening to some Jack Johnson, on the iPod, & enjoying a cocktail. Can't make too much noise cause my daughter is napping.. Good time to check Sail Net.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

HS...sorry but that is not the experience I had over 6 years with laptops IN the nav station full time. Nor did I see evidence of unusual drive failures in our fellow cruisers units. So maybe sailing is simply not that tough as far as G force goes and laptops can take normal at sea abuse. Not arguing that there are higher standards...like in Tough Books...just don't see any NEED in actual cruising use. 
It would be interesting to see if others who have cruising experience in all kinds of weather have different opinions. 

As to the IPOD drives and similar from others...yeah...they must be even better isolated since they are specifically designed for active use 
I have avoided flash units since they can't hold all my music...and I want ALL my music aboard! 
This will change as flash capacities and prices continue to rise and fall respectively and one day, I suppose all hard drives will be quaint relics like my 1200 baud modem.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

It's worth it now to investigate using an SSD (solid state drive) in your laptop, the prices have come down enough to make it smart for both power consumption, G-force, and MTBF (mean time between failure) reasons. I got a 30gig SSD recently for like 120$us, and I am sure they have come down in price even more than that in the past few months, SSD's are really starting to catch on. More expensive per gig than a "regular" hard drive ? Yes, sure, for the moment, but they aren't outside the realm of reason anymore, it is an alternative a prudent person can now choose.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Unfortunately, the largest of the SSD drives is still only 120 GB or so. They also have are far shorter useful working life than do mechanical hard drives, if you do any kind of hard drive intensive work, since the read/write cycles that the SSD flash memory can go through is relatively limited compared to hard drive magnetic media. In limited applications, I can see them being useful, but not for what I use my computer for.



wind_magic said:


> It's worth it now to investigate using an SSD (solid state drive) in your laptop, the prices have come down enough to make it smart for both power consumption, G-force, and MTBF (mean time between failure) reasons. I got a 30gig SSD recently for like 120$us, and I am sure they have come down in price even more than that in the past few months, SSD's are really starting to catch on. More expensive per gig than a "regular" hard drive ? Yes, sure, for the moment, but they aren't outside the realm of reason anymore, it is an alternative a prudent person can now choose.


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## dryclean (May 7, 2009)

I'm just saying if you go with a flash drive you shouldn't have a problem in the g-force dept.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Unfortunately, the largest of the SSD drives is still only 120 GB or so. They also have are far shorter useful working life than do mechanical hard drives, if you do any kind of hard drive intensive work, since the read/write cycles that the SSD flash memory can go through is relatively limited compared to hard drive magnetic media. In limited applications, I can see them being useful, but not for what I use my computer for.


Dog, you're working from older information, suggest you read up on the new SSD drives, they have changed a lot in the past few years. It did used to be the case that you couldn't use a flash for a drive because individual bits could only take a certain number of write cycles before they went bad but for SSD's the technology has surpassed that now - SSD's are real hard drives now, drop in replacements for any hard drive, and even with intensive use their mean time between failures far exceeds mechanical hard drives. SSD's are simply better than mechanical hard drives now - faster, use less power, last longer, weigh less, generate less heat, etc, SSD's run at Raid level 0 have already hit 250mb/sec which is the upper speed limit for SATA. Yes, the GB/$us price is high, however. Sandisk's newest G3 line goes up to 256gb for around 600$us. Prices are dropping fast, it won't be long before we are all using them.

Check this out: SanDisk press release


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Flash technology used to be choked by high prices and read/write cycles as low as 5000 writes. Newer technologies can be expected to handle 100,000 write cycles, which is quite a difference. Maybe not as high as a hard drive--but also bear in mind that most hard drives are sold with a 1-3-5 year warranty and nothing more, they're expected to die in five years at best. And that's when they're used according to the instructions, with a proper shock mount and not banging around. (Look at a Dell home computer, the drive is just screwed down. Look at an IBM server, the drive is installed to "rubber" shock mounts.)

sd, there's no question that SSDs are still a premium product but in the past two years they have ramped down drastically. Then again, so have hard drives overall. And pretty much all computer parts. But if you are "computing in motion" rather than "computing after having moved", what you are doing doesn't matter if you need mechanical reliability. SSDs provide that, shock-sensing hard drives attempt to provide it, and plain hard drives are expressly warranteed to fail in that situation.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> Flash technology used to be choked by high prices and read/write cycles as low as 5000 writes. Newer technologies can be expected to handle 100,000 write cycles, which is quite a difference. Maybe not as high as a hard drive--but also bear in mind that most hard drives are sold with a 1-3-5 year warranty and nothing more, they're expected to die in five years at best.


See, that's what I'm saying, what you said about 100k cycles is irrelevant now - the SSD's use hardware wear leveling, and since their failures are on writes and not reads they know if a bit is bad so they simply don't use it anymore, like a bad sector on a mechanical hard drive except that it is automatically accounted for and has no effect on performance. 100k cycles is per bit, but the hardware makes it transparent now, you can write the drive as much as you want, it just doesn't matter anymore. That's why the mean time between failures is higher now for SSD's than for mechanical hard drives, because if you take EVERYTHING into account, all the kinds of failures including running out of cycles on bits, everything, you still have a longer lasting SSD than you do mechanical hard drives.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

That still doesn't address the size disparity and cost issues... The cost of a 500 GB 2.5" laptop hard drive is now below that of a 128 GB SSD 2.5" laptop solid state drive.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

If you accept that the MTBF is larger for an SSD then it really comes down to what your data is worth to you, and how much uptime you need. 

I never said everyone should change to SSD's, I said that a prudent person can now make that choice.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"That still doesn't address the size disparity and cost issues..."
You're right, but that's a specious argument, sd.

A year ago the 500GB laptop hard drives weren't available at any price. Six months ago they were twice the price that they are now, and available from IIRC only one vendor instead of the three(?) now delivering them. I just RMA'd three of them to a prime vendor, because the first one was DOA and the two replacements were DOA as well. Says something about qc and production issues and the reliability of those drives--versus SSDs, which just don't the same problems.

Price comparisons? On brand new limited-source products that are changing so rapidly you can't put the prices in print before they're obsoleted? That's like asking what a ticket for the Lotto is worth. Before or after the results have been called.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Maine Sail said:


> P.S. Sitting on the boat right now listening to some Jack Johnson,


I thought there may be reason I liked this guy, Mainesail


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## Cal28 (Jul 6, 2009)

camaraderie said:


> I'm gonna recommend the Kenwood 592...Does everything you want, has good amplifier section. Controls Ipod and takes usb inputs as well. It is 60 bucks off and down to $140 right now at Crutchfield and I think it is a hell of a deal compared to other stuff at that price point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One of my next projects after installing 110V Shore power and rewiring the 12V DC system on my Cal 28 is the stereo system as I will need music to assist in the many hours of sanding and refurbishing I have ahead of me.

I read this entire thread (and others) with interest and it shed light on many of my concerns. Thanks to all who contributed.

I am now thinking about the Kenwood Excelon KDC-X592 CD (currently discontinued at Crutchfield but available for less than $130 including shipping at several other sites.

For speakers, I believe I am going with a pair the Boston Acoustics Voyager 4's (online for $200) as I do like a fuller base response (having broken both my eardrums on a recreational tour of Southeast Asia in '69) even tho' space is at a minumum in the cabin. I'll hold off on a second pair to see if I really need them (and I'm hoping that I won't need a sub-woofer).

Thanks again for all the input here (especially camaraderie and ... I'll have to play with where and how to install 'em all and will provide photos when done.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Good choices Cal...looking forward to your photos and evaluation.


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

Here is a vote for the Boston Acoustic voyager 4's. I got them on Cam's advice in this thread and they sound really really really good. Even my teenage son and his buddy were impressed and they like somewhat different music (to say the least).

As for head units, I got an Alpine with an aux and usb jack on the front. I looked at all the ipod controllers on the various head units and decided that the best controller for an ipod - is the ipod itself. None of the systems I saw built in to the various head units was as good as what an Ipod has to begin with - another upside is that guests dont have to be told how to control their ipods - I can tell them to just bring them and plug them in and we get a whole new selection of music without me having to teach them how to run the machine.

The only down side of that is that the ipod needs to be charged independently, but that is what they made 12v cigarette plugs for.

Here is a big thanks to Cam for steering me in the right directions. In fact, I just ordered infinitis for the cockpit so I am hoping he is right about that too.

(See? I can too take direction from republicans. Yes I can)


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I ended up with an Alpine CD-9886M and I have to say I'm not totally satisfied with it - it accepts USB devices with music on them but I have found that it complains and won't play a lot of music, or that it will play the music and then complain and stop playing it, etc. Great stereo, terrific sound, but if you are really counting on that USB capability you might want to check into it a little bit more.


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

I havent tried the usb yet - just use the aux input for the ipods. I will give it a try next time I am on the boat - awesome sound is right though -


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

sck5 said:


> I havent tried the usb yet - just use the aux input for the ipods. I will give it a try next time I am on the boat - awesome sound is right though -


Sck5 I haven't tried to figure out why my USB doesn't work all the way, but I have a feeling it could if you put the music in the right format and directory structure on the USB device. The CD player scans the whole USB device looking for music, apparently, so maybe it makes a difference if you just put the music in one main directory, or if you use certain formats like WMA or something, I just haven't played around with it enough to know what is causing problems. Most of the problems I have is with the CD player playing the song and then quitting near the very end of it saying there is some kind of an error. I guess what I am saying is it could be user error.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

*Cable Length Question*

I'm looking at upgrading some parts of my system so this thread has been interesting.

One of the things I'm adding is a wired remote to the empty slot in my NavPod that will allow me to control the stereo from the cockpit.

I'm thinking of also running a miniplug extension cable to mount alongside the remote (approx 15'-20' run) with the idea that I'll Velcro mount the MP3 at the wheel when sailing so I won't have to go below to change songs or playlists.

My question for Cam, who seems to be the resident stereo guru, is will I see a significant signal/volume degradation with a 20' miniplug extension cable?

Thanks,
Jim


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

drynoc said:


> Both of my boats have stereos, but I never listen to them.


Abracadabra came with a pretty nice stereo (AM/FM/CD/MP3). Not much in the way of speakers, tho. They look like plain old 6x9 automotive co-axials. Turned it on, once. It didn't do anything. (I suspect it has no antenna and I didn't bother fetching a CD to try in it.) Turned it back off. Never bothered to read the user's manual. Not dissin' people who enjoy music on their sailboats, but we simply have no use for it on ours. Our new-to-us little stink-boat also came with a stereo which I _have_ had on. Even went to the trouble of hunting-down the user's manual on-line so I could figure out how to use it. It sounds pretty good. Turned it on only once while under way. It interfered with conversation. I turned it back off. Maybe if I was on the boat alone, I'd have it on.



drynoc said:


> I want to hear either that delicious, low, throaty rumble of a pair of V8's,


No offense intended, but hate it. Hate it, hate it, hate it. I hate it when they rumble by, disturbing the peace of every boat on the canal/creek/river and hate it when they go roaring by out on the lake, disturbing the peace for thousands of yards around. Boats with big V8s and out-of-the-water exhaust are every bit as annoying to me as cars with excessively loud sub-woofers.

I _understand_ the attraction. I still remember when I was a young man and enjoyed noisy exhaust, too. Guess I'm just gettin' old 

That's one of the things we really liked about our new-to-use little stink-boat: She's relatively *quiet* - for a stink-boat . (Actually quite a bit quieter than Abracadabra when she's under power.)



drynoc said:


> or the breath of God.


_Now_ we're talkin'! 

Jim


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*That's a lot..*



JimMcGee said:


> One of the things I'm adding is a wired remote to the empty slot in my NavPod that will allow me to control the stereo from the cockpit.
> 
> I'm thinking of also running a miniplug extension cable to mount alongside the remote (approx 15'-20' run) with the idea that I'll Velcro mount the MP3 at the wheel when sailing so I won't have to go below to change songs or playlists.
> 
> ...


Jim that is an awful lot of wiring that is not totally needed. If you own an iPod simply get an ABT iJet radio frequency remote control. The key fob is water resistant and allows you to control the iPod from the cockpit, dinghy or anywher within about 150 feet. These are NOT line of sight infrared remotes but rather radiop frequency that will work through cabins, bulkheads and such without the need to be "aimed" at the source. Mine is always either in my pocket or held with Velcro to my NavPod right next to my plotter. Even my 2 1/2 year old knows how to skip songs...

They also make a remote that shows & displays the songs etc.

*ABT iJet (LINK)*


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Jim...you should be fine at 20'...may have to crank the volume a notch higher but otherwise no issues. I'm assuming you have a non-ipod unit. 

Sck...see, I'm right about everything!  Glad it worked out well.


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## Cal28 (Jul 6, 2009)

camaraderie said:


> Good choices Cal...looking forward to your photos and evaluation.


It'll be about a month ... but I will post them.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

camaraderie said:


> Jim...you should be fine at 20'...may have to crank the volume a notch higher but otherwise no issues. I'm assuming you have a non-ipod unit.
> 
> Sck...see, I'm right about everything!  Glad it worked out well.








Yep, it's a Creative Labs Zen player. Works great, half the price of an iPod, and there's an expansion slot that takes an SD card so adding more space is no problem. The only issue is there aren't a lot of accessories for controlling it remotely.

MaineSail I like your music choice though. Jack Johnson and Norah Jones are getting a lot of airplay on my boat this summer.

Jim


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Jim...I face the same remote issue with my Zune...but no longer have a boat to worry about. Nevertheless...still want to use it to play remotely at home and elsewhere so I just purhased the i2i Steam unit. 
i2iGear.com - How It Works










Have not yet tried it out but I believe it is a good solution for a boat as well. Will give you a report when I know more about actual performance...but this should let you keep the Zen at the helm or with you and then beam wirelessly to your stereo. Check it out.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

camaraderie said:


> Jim...I face the same remote issue with my Zune...but no longer have a boat to worry about. Nevertheless...still want to use it to play remotely at home and elsewhere so I just purhased the i2i Steam unit.
> i2iGear.com - How It Works


Cool solution. But in my case I have to run the cable for the Sony wired remote anyway, so pulling the hard wire is no problem - and probably a lot cheaper. My concern was signal loss.

I was moving some stuff around in the garage last night and I came across this box of tapes I used to keep in the car. iPods and MP3's really are amazing little devices. Makes you wonder what kind of gadgets will be necessities in another couple of years.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

JimMcGee said:


> Makes you wonder what kind of gadgets will be necessities in another couple of years.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

wind_magic said:


>


OMG they hooked a computer directly to a congressman's brain


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Impossible, everyone knows that congressmen don't have brains. 



JimMcGee said:


> OMG they hooked a computer directly to a congressman's brain


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

even worms have brains. not very big ones, but they have enough to allow them to crawl around eating dirt.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I finally did a review on my i2iStream device. You can view it here. 
For those who do NOT own an Ipod...it is the ONLY device that will let you remotely control your marine stereo and play your MP3 player through it with full control of everything at the helm. Even if you DO own an Ipod you may find this device appealing compared to some others.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

*Can it run off the USB input?*

Cam, just read your review over on anything sailing. This sounds like a good option. I'm wondering will the i2iStream operate while it's plugged into the USB cable?







I have a dual 12v outlet wired near my stereo. One outlet for charging my handheld vhf, and the other is fitted with a 12vdc to USB adapter. The MP3 player is plugged into the adapter. With this setup it will run as long as I've got battery power.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Yep...it will work plugged in...of course both sender and receiver must be plugged in since they both have batteries. TWO USB to MiniUSB cables are included in the package.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Thanks, this just got added to the todo list


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## Cal28 (Jul 6, 2009)

camaraderie said:


> Jim...I face the same remote issue with my Zune...but no longer have a boat to worry about. Nevertheless...still want to use it to play remotely at home and elsewhere so I just purhased the i2i Steam unit.
> i2iGear.com - How It Works
> 
> 
> ...


camaraderie ...

this looks very interesting to me as I carry about 40 gigs of music on my laptop and am looking for a way to synch with the stereo ...

I'll be watching for your review ...

thanks again


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## Cal28 (Jul 6, 2009)

camaraderie ...

just saw where you made your review over at anythingsailing ...
read it ... thank you

sounds like a winner to me


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Yeah...I linked to it in #124 above. Thanks...I am pleased with it and think it addresses a real need for some folks.


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## gasolino (Aug 26, 2010)

This thread helped me out a lot deciding how I'll go about upgrading my boat's stereo equipment (currently a battery-powered boombox).

I think I'll go with this Kenwood head:

Amazon.com: Kenwood KDC-MP342U WMA/MP3 CD Receiver with Satellite/HD Radio/Bluetooth Ready Front Panel USB/AUX Input: Electronics

And these Dual speakers for the cockpit:

Amazon.com: Dual 3-Way Indoor/Outdoor Speaker Set: Electronics

I know the Polks' sound quality would blow these overboard, but I'm on a budget.

Any thoughts on this setup? Also, I've seen a couple rolls of speaker wire advertised as "marine grade". Is there any difference worth considering between regular and marine speaker wire?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

The only difference I can think of is corrosion on a boat, so you could use tinned wire.


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## CanadianDave (Jul 17, 2010)

has anyone had any experience with installing a satellite radio like sirus or XM in their boat?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

CanadianDave said:


> has anyone had any experience with installing a satellite radio like sirus or XM in their boat?


Have used XM and Sirius on various boats, including mine. What's the question?


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

Im not sure how much more 'marine' stuff is than 'non?'

i got one of these, allows ipod in, usb in at faceplate (i use for movie audio from laptop), and mine has four speaker outs so you can pick up two more for cockpit or cabin... 
Dual MXCP66 Marine Stereo Receiver with Speakers and MH100 Gimbal Housing

but at 159 bucks is it that much more than a comparable non marine setup?


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

oh, i thought this was kinda cool too...



New Scuba Bass Tank 400 Watt 8" Boat Subwoofer Tube NR - eBay (item 200548957389 end time Dec-05-10 17:50:56 PST)


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