# Sabre 30 v Tartan 28



## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

All things being equal, including price, which would be a better buy:

A 1980 Sabre 30 in average condition with the original Volvo and only modest upgrades,

or

A 1985 Tartan 28 in average condition with the original Yanmar and a few more upgrades?

Both boats would be used for coastal cruising in Maine. Daysails, weekend/week-long cruises for 2.

Thanks!


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

I would go with the Tartan. Sabre is a great boat but that Volvo would put me off. Parts are expensive and servicing may also be an issue. Yanmars are everywhere, easy to service and parts are readily available.

All things being equal of course


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

Both are good boats. There was a discussion here recently about the perceived problem of maintaining a boat with a cored hull and all Sabres have them as well as wooden stringers. Not to impy it's a bad boat; to the contrary, they are well thought of. You might want to be aware of that other discussion as part of your thought process.


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## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

Thanks, Brez. That's a good point.

What about Tartan construction of that era. It looks good to my non-surveyor eye, but is it built as well as the Sabre? It looks like the hull on the Tartan is cored above the waterline. Should I be scared?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

The Sabre 30 is NOT balsa cored. It is a solid fiberglass layup with balsa and fiberglass reinforement in hi stress areas (like stringers). I like the Sabre better but I too worry about the Volvo. Get a good engine mechanic to give her a once over if you go this route.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

lbdavis said:


> Thanks, Brez. That's a good point.
> 
> What about Tartan construction of that era. It looks good to my non-surveyor eye, but is it built as well as the Sabre? It looks like the hull on the Tartan is cored above the waterline. Should I be scared?


I've been struggling with this same question of late. It seems several of the boats generally mentioned as being higher quality boats (Sabre, Tartan) have cored hulls, while boats generally considered of more moderate construction (Catalina for example) have solid laminate hulls.

If budget dictates a used boat, what do you choose? The older cored hull "quality" boat or a newer "lower" quality boat with solid hull?

I'm vexed, very, very vexed.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

camaraderie said:


> The Sabre 30 is NOT balsa cored. It is a solid fiberglass layup with balsa and fiberglass reinforement in hi stress areas (like stringers). I like the Sabre better but I too worry about the Volvo. Get a good engine mechanic to give her a once over if you go this route.


Cam
I defer to your expertise but according th this month's Sail magazine, all Sabres have cored hulls, both above and below the waterline. Again, that's not necessarily a show-stopper.


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## iwm (Mar 6, 2007)

all current sabres, but not older ones

Van (former Sabre 28 owner)


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Here's the brochure for the sabre 30 and you can see the NON cored hull details for yourself. This applies to all 3 series of sabre30's.
http://www.sabreyachts.com/pdf/S30-Series-1.pdf


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*That would be...*

That would be all "CURRENT" Sabre's are cored hulls not all Sabre's. Sabre did not start coring until 1978 and even then it was an option beginning at 34 feet. Most buyers did not opt for the cored option unless they were racing. The new and current Sabre's are cored with Divinycell and vacuum bagged in both the decks and the hull.

If you're in Maine then the Sabre will give you a better re-sale being 30 feet and also a Sabre but the Tartan with the Yanmar would be the safer bet.

Volvo's SUCK and parts are very hard to get especially when you really need them. I was out of commission for an entire sailing season because of a stupid $5.00 part that was back ordered! I looked at 50+ boats last year and those fifty plus boats included NO boats with Volvo's. If the boat had a Volvo I would not even look at it that's how much I personally despise Volvo's.

The Sabre is a small 30 and the Tartan a big 28 so they should be roughly the same size and both are built well. It's a tough decision but if it were me I'd try and find a re-powered Sabre 30 or buy the Tartan. 28 footers are tough on re-sale though, regardless of how big they seem compared to a Sabre 30, so if you think you might eventually want to move up buy the 30 but not the one with the Volvo...

I'm guessing your talking about the Tartan 28 at Royal River Boat Yard. That boat has been cared for fairly well as I see the guy there each spring working his butt off. Other boat to consider would be a Pearson 303, Catalina 30, Cal 28 MKII, Sabre 28, J30 etc. etc..

The gray J30 listed by Jeff at East Coast Yacht Sales has a brand new Yanmar in 2005 and those boats sail great and are quite roomy for the price..

This link is a Yacht World search dialed in for just Maine boats from 28 to 30 feet and priced to 60k..

http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/cache/searchResults.jsp?cit=true&slim=quick&ybw=&sm=3&is=&type=%28Sail%29&man=&hmid=102&ftid=101&enid=0&fromLength=28&toLength=30&luom=126&fromYear=&toYear=&fromPrice=&toPrice=60000&currencyid=100&city=&spid=118&rid=&pbsint=&boatsAddedSelected=-1&ps=30


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

*Tartan 30?*

Both great boats, leaning toward the Tartan because of the engine!

But have you thought about a Tartan 30 since you seem to like that style?


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Rockter...your missing it again


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

I would not have though for one moment you would have leaned toward the Tartan. 

Your last PM to me advised of the risk of legal action for my opinions on the Tartan marque, opinions formed solely on what I read on this website. Apparently it was not a threat, as you carefully pointed out.

Perhaps I should be a little more wary of you than of the marque.


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

halekai36 said:


> Volvo's SUCK ..........I would not even look at it that's how much I personally despise Volvo's.


So how do you really feel?


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Yes unfortunately...*



Brezzin said:


> So how do you really feel?


Yes unfortunately that is how I feel. I had more issues with that one product/motor from parts availability to the same parts failing every 40 hours of use to poor customer service and non existent factory support. In my 40 years of my life I had more issues with Volvo marine motors than I have had cumulatively with every thing I ever bought in my life from washing machines to cars!

This was not just one lemon as I actually owned two different Volvo's from two different production years built 5 years apart. Both engines had the same stupid nickel & dime issues, nickel & dime is of course a euphemism because the Volvo parts are very, very, very pricey, that happened on the earlier motor happened on the later motor which tells me Volvo does not address known problems and they 100% ignore their customers input.

I actually had to pry the Volvo automobile from my wifes fingers because I was so angry at how they treated me as a customer I also stopped buying their cars!


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Obviously, I'm biased, but VICTORIA is the second Sabre that we've owned, the first being a Sabre 28. When we were looking for our current boat, we looked at the whole market-dozens of boats and kept coming back to Sabre because of the outstanding quality. To put the core issue to rest, halekai36 is correct that coring was first introduced in the 34, but NEVER in the 30. Especially of that vintage. That said, I have a cored 38 (from the waterline UP, but never below) and there is no moisture intrusion. For a coastal sailor, it's not an issue for me, but others are much more passionate about the topic.

I've always considered Sabre & Tartan very similar, but the finish of a Sabre excels, the customer service is excellent (even for owners that didn't purchase from Sabre), the design is conservative but not archaic, and the ride is excellent. The World's Best Sailboats (Vol II) by Ferenc Mate profiles Sabre in detail. While he discusses current Sabres, I can say that Sabre takes the idea of design evolution seriously - they are constantly improving each boat, not just each new model.

As for the Volvo, I'll defer comment to others with direct experience. I've had Westerbekes and been very happy (knock on wood). I'd look for a Westerbeke since Sabre seems to have used these engines most often, parts are readily available (but not cheap). Take the 2HP/1000 lbs rule seriously. Our 28 was 8000lbs with a 13HP and was slightly underpowered in our view. Our 38 is 16000 lbs with a 33 HP and drives much better.

Good luck with your search - both are great boats and it's a great problem to have.....but I like Sabre


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

If you are open to any new suggestions, I would also look at a Bristol 29 or 29.9 of the same period. The build quality is very good, and the sailing qualities excellent. Mine is an older boat (1969), so I'm saddled with the A4 motor, but the newer boats will have the diesels. A good Maine boat.


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## nk235 (Apr 8, 2007)

I just spent a week at Block Island with my good friend who has a 1988 Tartan 28 that he just did a pretty big refit this past year. I am not familiar with the Sabre but I was very impressed with the quality of the Tartan. It seemed like a very sturdy boat that was built real solid. But then again I am always impressed with nice kept boats bigger than my 25 footer. Anyway he just put it up for sale so if you are thinking about getting one you can pm me and I can send you his link to his forsale page. Its in the best shape of any Tartan I have ever seen.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

The earlier Volvos were not a bad unit... the MD 17c is a well-built motor, cast iron, raw water cooled, heavy though.
The problem is when things start going wrong. They don't have to be big things either. The motor will scale, then you have to descale it. Some use chemicals... I tried dismantling it. 
I made a mistake, and cracked the exhaust manifold... this is in 1997.
The cost of a new replacement, direct from Volvo, in 1997 was £1300 (then about $2400)... that was then about half the cost of a new Kubota.
I though I heard the guy wrong on the phone. I had not. It did not bother him much either, but it's different if you must fix the motor.

The equivalent part from Lister Petter (it does not fit the Volvo) was £185 (then about $340). The Volvo part was 7 times the expense.

Volvo argued that I had an old engine, so the spares were expensive. The motor was exactly 20 years old. That was Volvo's definition of an old motor. I thought they were supposed to last that long, easily, and more.

I vowed never to buy a Volvo. The next motor will be a Kubota, or Lister. That's a pity too, as the Volvo motor really can run well when it wants to.

The Volvos back then (1997) were well built, but the 2002, 2003 series were not so well built, and the range did not survive long, being replaced by the Perkins unit, built under licence or something.

I take your point about the price of spare parts (or "spares" as we call them here). It really is insulting, but once you have the Volvo motor in there, the thought of re-engining turns most of us blue in the face. We do not forget it though.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

> If budget dictates a used boat, what do you choose? The older cored hull "quality" boat or a newer "lower" quality boat with solid hull?


Personally I would go for the solid hull. I might consider a cored hull that was built with a foam core above the waterline IF it had been built using vacuum bag construction, but I'd spend a lot of time and money having it surveyed and tested.

Buying a cored hull from someone you don't know, that could potentially have a layer of black, rotten, balsa much between two thin pieces of aging fibreglass is a bit of a leap of faith. Better to buy the solid hull and spend whatever it takes to bring it up to snuff. Lots of great solid laminate hulls out there.

FWIW - I got a Volvo engine with my boat and so far it has been no problem at all. Part$ are an issue, but what can ya do ??? It's a boat - they cost money.


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## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

Wow. That was a wealth of knowledge that has left me more informed but less sure about my decision. THanks for all your input!


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## Sabre Dan (May 11, 2012)

The older sabre's including all of the 28's had SOLID glass layup schedules for the hull. The decks on those boats were cored. The same applies to the older 30's.Also, the Volvo part accessibility has improved, but an engine survey of one is definitely merited.
dan


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