# Rough cost to convert tiller to wheel



## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

I am looking at a tartan 34c with a tiller. My better half wants to convert this to a wheel. What kind of cost might I be looking at?

Thanks muchly in advance!


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Thousands, unless you DIY and get the parts from another boat. Edsons's off the shelf conversion "kit" was over $2500 last I checked.


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

ug, so 2500 + labor?. Thanks for that, I'll look at the edson site.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Just easier to find a boat that already has a wheel


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Edson has been around for a long time and nothing seems to be obsolete. I have seen used pedestals for sale plenty of times. Just keep your eyes open and you can probably find one for a good price. Even the older ones clean up nicely and with a good coat of paint, look like new.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Dunno, how much would the divorce cost you?


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

lol


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Here's one in NY View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

Nice.

The one I am looking at is in even better condition....!


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Why bother? Time for upgrade!!! Buy another boat that has every thing you and your SO want.


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

Yes, I guess I need to avoid fixating on a particular boat, lots out there.

If anyone knows of a 31-36 under 30k in great shape in new england


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

If you want/need wheel steering I really don't see the point of buying a (rather generic) boat that has a tiller. It's a pretty big job - do-able, but still... and odds are that there is an example with a wheel that's ready to go.. somewhere nearby. Also maybe not get fixated on any one boat at this point.. keep an open eye and open mind.

If the boat is exceptional and really pulls at the heartstrings I'd consider learning to live with the tiller rather than start cutting and drilling.


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

Yep, your looking at the wrong boat..

There will be enough to fix, repair, upgrade with any 30K boat.... you don't need to start out with a major remodel project before you even "like" it...


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I gotta say.. I do love having wheel steering.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

deniseO30 said:


> I gotta say.. I do love having wheel steering.


I know what you mean and for cruising I agree.. I think for longish legs the wheel offers more variety of helming positions, and usually a bit of mechanical advantage though a well balanced boat shouldn't need too much of that.

For racing, though, I prefer a tiller. We owned a 40 footer with a wheel and a 24 foot day racer that was tiller steered for 12 years, so got quite used to going back and forth...


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

I'm so dyslexic I have to face the tiller when I use a stern...

er..
face the stern when I use a tiller?


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Im gunna say it will cost close to $10,000
Its not a thing you can DIY sucessfully, unless you have vast, VAST experience.
I doubt a shipwright could do it well, either, i think its the type of thing thats best done by the factory during manufacture.

A wheel looks simple enough, and nothing looks at all advanced. But i thnk its one of those things thats probably belying a deep dark history of mechanical marvels.

Of all the things to screw around with this is one not to touch with a pitch fork.

Can someone who has actually done this tell me I am wrong?

I doubt its been done enough for you to find someone to do it thats installed enough for you to be confident with.

Mark


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Seems it would be much easier and cheaper to convince her of the advantages of a tiller over a wheel. Cheaper ,far less prone to breakdown, you get a feel for the boat, it is much easier to go forward past a tiller than having to climb around a wheel, easier docking, as you always know which way the rudder is pointing, and you can reverse it's direction instantly.
Switching from a tiller to a wheel would be a big mistake, from a practical point of view.

If pretentiousness is the motivation for the change, then a divorce would be a much better solution, possibly inevitable in the long run, anyway.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

Brent Swain said:


> Seems it would be much easier and cheaper to convince her of the advantages of a tiller over a wheel. Cheaper ,far less prone to breakdown, you get a feel for the boat, it is much easier to go forward past a tiller than having to climb around a wheel, easier docking, as you always know which way the rudder is pointing, and you can reverse it's direction instantly.
> Switching from a tiller to a wheel would be a big mistake, from a practical point of view.


I agree. IMO, the only reason to go to a wheel is if you are constantly overpowered with a tiller, which is why larger boats need them. Isn't that a light race boat? If so, you definitely don't want to lose the feedback the tiller gives the Helmsman. When I use a wheel, I have to be very careful that I don't over steer, because I'm use to the direct feel of the rudder, and what it tells me. The tiller also allows me to single hand my boat much more effectively than I could with a wheel. 
I recently read a thread* here about a boat that was converted, search for it. I think you will see it's a PITA project, especially if the boat doesn't need a wheel! If you live in the SF Bay Area contact me. I'll take you and your wife sailing and show her why she doesn't want a wheel (unless the boat requires it).
Edit: *Denise030 links the thread later in this thread. Read it and weep! Why, why, why? (IMHO!)


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## groggy (Aug 18, 2011)

Im a bit of a noob, but having sailed a few club boats from 15' to 41', I have a strong preference for the tiller where available. 

Like others have said, better feedback, better intuitive sense of exactly where the rudder is, and i personally find sitting on the high side steering with the tiller extension to give better view of the headsail telltales.


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

Brent Swain said:


> Seems it would be much easier and cheaper to convince her of the advantages of a tiller over a wheel. Cheaper ,far less prone to breakdown, you get a feel for the boat, it is much easier to go forward past a tiller than having to climb around a wheel, easier docking, as you always know which way the rudder is pointing, and you can reverse it's direction instantly.
> Switching from a tiller to a wheel would be a big mistake, from a practical point of view.
> 
> If pretentiousness is the motivation for the change, then a divorce would be a much better solution, possibly inevitable in the long run, anyway.


You're not married are you? This is possibly the worst advice I have seen on sailnet and totally insensitive.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

CooksWithGas is actually doing the conversion on his boat. here's the link to the thread;
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/94123-retrofitting-tiller-wheel-steering.html


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

ebs001 said:


> You're not married are you? This is possibly the worst advice I have seen on sailnet and totally insensitive.


Friends who have decades of experience with catering to pretentiousness tell me it is advice they wish they had listened to years earlier.
Then there are those who haven't caught on; yet.


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## mr_f (Oct 29, 2011)

Based on the cost of replacing some broken parts on a 1980s edson pedestal this year, and extrapolating based on weight to the cost of a complete steering system, I would estimate it will cost you approximately $1.4 billion.


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

Brent Swain said:


> If pretentiousness is the motivation for the change, then a divorce would be a much better solution, possibly inevitable in the long run, anyway.


Sigh, perhaps, but we had a wheel steering pre-nup.....


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

ebs001 said:


> You're not married are you? This is possibly the worst advice I have seen on sailnet and totally insensitive.


I thought it was kinda funny


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

Perhaps a larger tiller?


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

*Until tiller do us part!*



ebs001 said:


> You're not married are you? This is possibly the worst advice I have seen on sailnet and totally insensitive.


Without turning this into a Dr. Phil thread, I thought it was rather sage advice! Brent wasn't saying that was the case, but it is certainly a possibility. 
Many think that "real boats" have wheels. I have to admit that I felt that way prior to falling in love with my current boat, which unfortunately happened to have a tiller. I thought: "Well... if thats the worst thing about her, I can learn to live with it". The irony is, she soon showed me how pretentious and ignorant I was!


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

Brent Swain said:


> Friends who have decades of experience with catering to pretentiousness tell me it is advice they wish they had listened to years earlier.
> Then there are those who haven't caught on; yet.


Based on your friends failed marriages you are now a relationship expert.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm trying to imagine the agony of having a new boat and not sailing it because its being sawn into pieces for this upgrade, followed by the constant return trips to the yard because they didn't do it correctly the first time.

I would find a boat with a wheel. From VT, don't leave the Hudson, St, Lawerence, Lake Ontario or the Finger Lakes out of your radar sweep.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

If you havent bought a boat yet then you would be cracked in the scone to buy one which you need to make a major modification. There are zillions of boats that fit your neds and budget in the USA so it would only be laziness neglecting to find the one that better suits.

On to the tiller vs wheel for cruising. I much prefer a wheel than a tiller and would not have a tiller on a cruising boat. Its not really a technical thing, its a thing thing... It gives the feel of a boat of substance where a tiller gives the feel of smallness. Sure that may just be a kinesthetic thing, but its why we make many decisions... Its got to feel right. (Its one of the reasons why cars that resemble rice grains on wheels dont sell as well as "proper"cars..... till the fuel price is so high we are forced).
If your boat is to be your home you need to love it.

The internet image search shows most Tartan 34c's to have wheeels, so you cant be looking hard enough. But i do note, as others have, that theres no cockpit room with the wheel. Even with the tiller there is stuff all cockpit room!
See the attached photo. To get throm aft the wheel to the rest of the cockpit you can not step around the wheel you gotta step up onto the seat then back down. The Fun Police would shoot that after a while. If you have young kids it could become a safety thing at sea.

Maybe you are looking at the totally wrong sort of boat? Is a narrow boat going to be the thing with a couple? Where do you go to have a meter or two of space? 
I know that Tartan is meant to be a real yachtnand none others exist, but have you let the fairer half of your relationship have a look at more modern design boats? 50 year old design is not 50 years young, its 50 years old. It would be the only appliance, mechanical, electrical, moving, fixed etc you have ever owned to be so old.
It sails on its ear, into the wind it sails on a 30 degree+ heal in light weather which might be fine for guys, but girls? Modern boats do it at 15 degrees unless v heavy weather. 

The good feeling you want from your new boat is many, many things. The looking and the buying is both fun and frustrating. But one thing I know: Your perfect boat is out there. You just need to ensure you find the real one. 


Mark


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

That is a good point that Mark is making. My A35 is the same way. These old, narrow hulls are very tender. I like the feeling of cutting through waves, boat heeled over with the gunwale in the water but some people get majorly freaked out and uncomfortable when they have to function with everything atilt.


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

Right, it was in amazing condition though
tartan 34 sailboat in Sailboats | eBay Motors

I think I will follow the collective wisdom and keep looking!


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

And what the hell is this boat, I can't even find that floor plan!
1985 Gib Sea 3 cabins 9.6 sailboat for sale in Outside United States


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

vtsailguy said:


> And what the hell is this boat, I can't even find that floor plan!
> 1985 Gib Sea 3 cabins 9.6 sailboat for sale in Outside United States


These boats are typical French built (Builders were Gilbert, later under Dufour(?)) and I think a pretty decent build quality. Nicely finished as you can see. Tough to see from this pics but can't tell if this is an aft head boat or not, but it looks like twin aft doubles.

At 31 feet or so the layout may feel a bit tight, as many of the Euro boats of that era did, esp cramming so many 'cabins' into them. Layouts that worked well at 36+ were often stuffed into 30 and 32 footers with limited success. This is definitely a boat you'd have to visit in person to 'try on' for size, esp the berth lengths.

The other aspect for you to consider is that as a French built boat, importing it to the US will ding you another 9.5% duty on top of any taxes due. Perhaps not a deal killer but something you need to be aware of.

Probably a comfy cockpit with ramped coamings (nice for sitting to weather on a beat) One thing that jumped out at me from the pics is the sloped floor immediately in front of the galley stove.. sometimes that can be a problem for the galley slave depending on how far it extends from the stove front.

Pretty boat, though, and I expect it sails well enough. Not sure if these models came with iron keels or lead.. many French builders liked to use iron. (again, not necessarily a deal breaker, for some anyway...)

Canada's a nice place to visit this time of year....


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

It does seem amazing that they stuffed three cabins into 31'!!


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

ebs001 said:


> Based on your friends failed marriages you are now a relationship expert.


It's much easier to learn from the experiences of others ,than repeat them under cloud of self delusion and wishful thinking.


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## Gypsea (Nov 10, 2012)

I have everything you would need: pedestal, wheel, linkage etc. i was going to do the same but changed my mind. Not because of the difficulty but, I've just grown too used to a tiller. I really don't think it would be that difficult at all. I would let everything go for 500 bucks plus shipping. Email me if you're interested.

Jeff of Gypsea


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Hey dont let the naysayers in here talk you out of a good boat. The 34 Tartans are good boats. Moderate displacement, not as tender as those who posted would have you beleive, Much better quality than similar year production boats in general. Having a wheel has been discussed. If you are going to do any type of sailng/ cruising its easier and less tiring. Also get the traveler out of the cockpit if you want room there. The 80s Tartans have much more room back where the wheel and tiler is and are T shaped cockpits vs the 70 benches.

Cost of replacing tiller with wheel will not run more than $1500 for materials if you go used and with the huge number of Sandy boats finding parts should be easy. $10,000 is ridiculous as a yard can do this in 8 hours.This is not a very hard project. I have done it twice on older boats. NOt hard to adjust. Involves a couple pulleys,quadrant, pedetal base which will come almost pre done. 

Advice to get a boat which has no majopr projects in your price and footage needs will be tough. Find the boat you like in good condition and thern make the improvments and upgrades.

If you need further info feel free to PM me.

Dave


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

Brent, when some, whom you do not know, asks how much something will cost you don't tell them to get a divorce.


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

Gypsea said:


> I have everything you would need: pedestal, wheel, linkage etc. i was going to do the same but changed my mind. Not because of the difficulty but, I've just grown too used to a tiller. I really don't think it would be that difficult at all. I would let everything go for 500 bucks plus shipping. Email me if you're interested.
> 
> Jeff of Gypsea


PM'ed you


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## Gypsea (Nov 10, 2012)

I tried to pm you but, apparently, I'm not allowed yet as I don't have enough post? Everything I have was removed from a Morgan 33 out island. That's the same boat I have. The only issue I can see is the diameter of the rudder post. I'm not exactly sure what size this setup is for? I can measure it. But, it's Christmas so, let's enjoy and deal with this after Christmas.

Merry Christmas

Jeff of Gypsea


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

barrie[at] compassdesigns
dot
net


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

Just looked at the ad for the Tartan. Nice boat, and IMO a wheel would be a crime. However, I love the note in BIG RED FONT the seller posted saying he didn't want to entertain dreams of arm chair sailors who could only afford a dingy. And that he had invested almost the asking price (27+k) in the boat. A 40 year old, 34 foot boat with an A4, in this market? I think he might be confused about who is dreaming, and may be in for a lesson on "investing" in boats!
BTW: Not the newer light weight racing boat I imagined it was in an earlier post!


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

A4?


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

vtsailguy said:


> Right, it was in amazing condition though
> tartan 34 sailboat in Sailboats | eBay Motors


I would probably pass just because the guy sounds like a total douche from the listing. Not someone I'd want to do a transaction with.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

vtsailguy said:


> A4?


Atomic 4.


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## vtsailguy (Aug 4, 2010)

caberg said:


> Atomic 4.


Duh... right


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## blutoyz (Oct 28, 2012)

You didn't miss out on anything. You will find a boat with a wheel and a diesel within your budget easily.


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## sneuman (Jan 28, 2003)

What's wrong with a tiller? It's really the simplest and best system. If it works for your boat, I'd keep it.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

sneuman said:


> What's wrong with a tiller? It's really the simplest and best system. If it works for your boat, I'd keep it.


New to the thread?:laugher Though I agree with you, look at earlier posts for several answers to your question!


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## Plumbean (Dec 17, 2009)

I much prefer having a tiller and would certainly not bother converting a T34C from a tiller to a wheel. There are plenty of them out there that already have a wheel and you will have plenty of other projects to deal with, so why create one?

For what it is worth, I have an S&S designed 34 footer from the same era. A wheel would take up a lot of space in the cockpit permanently. With the tiller, it takes up space while sailing but folds out of the way nicely when at anchor. I haven't sailed a T34C, but suspect that like most S&S designed boats they are well balanced, so the use of a tiller would not be an issue.

While I can see how one might feel differently about this for an offshore passage, if that is your plan on a regular basis I would expect that a wind vane and/or autopilot would be in use for much of the time. Incidentally, the same goes for a wheel too. Hand steering for days at a time would be tiring either way.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

For gosh sakes.  Whenever a thread comes up where someone inquires about a project like this, the "Tiller People" rise up like so many zombies and, ignoring much of what the OP has said, state that _they_ like tillers, tillers are _good_, why don't _you _want a tiller? as if they and their tillers have been somehow threatened by someone wanting a wheel. Great, you tiller folks like your tillers--have an annual meeting about it. Bring your tillers  Meanwhile, some like the wheel. Or in this case, the OP's wife wants a wheel. A perfectly fine reason to get a boat with a wheel. Conversion on that boat? Maybe not.


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