# Alcohol Stove "Smells"



## alofns (Feb 28, 2010)

I have a big cut out in my galley countertop where a stove used to be and was planning to fill it with a stove. I have an old colman (white gas) pressurized stove, and 2 primus multi flue packable stoves I use in my sea kayaks. 

I'm not real keen to use any of the camping stoves based on comments I've read on here in previous posts and so I was thinking about buying a new 2 burner alcohol stove. Someone cautioned me that they smell bad? is this true?


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## mitchbrown (Jan 21, 2009)

We have a Heat Pal heater/cooker that uses denatured alcohol, The smell is minimal as far as im concerned but i do know that they bother some people more then others. It would be nice for you if you could find someone who has one and be around it for awhile and see how you like it. I personaly think non pressurised alcohol stoves are very safe and a good way to go.

Mitch


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## fordo (Jul 3, 2006)

I have an Origo 4000 that came with the boat and I'm very happy with it. It's much faster than I expected. I thought I'd try to put in propane but the Origo was completely satisfactory, so I saved a lot of money.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Alcohol has a particular smell, which varies a bit with the exact fuel. You may or may not like it.

But it is also the coldest flame and produces the most moisture in the process, leaving condensation problems in colder climates.

Personally I'd rather eat cold food than use an alky burner. And that's not mentioning the dangers of the invisible blue flame and fuel spills.


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

hellosailor said:


> Alcohol has a particular smell, which varies a bit with the exact fuel. You may or may not like it.
> 
> But it is also the coldest flame and produces the most moisture in the process, leaving condensation problems in colder climates.
> 
> Personally I'd rather eat cold food than use an alky burner. And that's not mentioning the dangers of the invisible blue flame and fuel spills.


You must be talking about a pressurized alcohol stove. A non-Pressurized alcohol stove has no explosion risk, as propane or a pressurized stove does and a alcohol flame can be put out with water.

When my wife and I order our new Beneteau 10 years ago we had the propane stove deleted in favor of a Origo 4000. We have been happy ever since. There is nothing we can't cook and the the safest way to go.


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## mitchbrown (Jan 21, 2009)

It's my opinion that the least safe fuel that is carried on a boat is gasoline the next least safe is propane, alcohol is probably the safest. My boat is equipped with a 3 burner and oven stove which uses Compressed Natural Gas this is pretty safe since it is lighter then air and so won't accumulate in the bilge ( it just floats out the companion way hatch ). However I do most of my cooking on the heat pal alcohol burner that I have because it's cheap and easy.

Mitch


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

i like alky, heck i have deep fried on my non pressure one


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

White gas is far more dangerous than alcohol on a boat. The Origo non-pressurized stoves work well, are safe, and have little or no smell when operating.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Everyone has their own preferences, but I use my non-pressurized alcohol stove daily while onboard. It is dead-nuts simple, easy to light, easy to extinguish, and it is SILENT, which is nice when you are brewing your pre-dawn coffee and do not want to wake up the rest of the crew. I find a gallon jug of alcohol will last more than a month, and it is easy to stow.
In fact I use our alcohol stove more often than I use my rail mounted propane bbq.


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## justified (Jun 14, 2007)

Last year I replaced an old pressurized alcohol stove with a new non-pressurized cookmate stove. what a difference, quite,easy to lite and no smells what so ever. My youngest daughter always complained about the smeel of the old one, it never bothered me -but it did stink. Should have done it sooner.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BUBB—

Water, at least sources you'd find on a boat, are not considered "safe" methods of extinguishing alcohol fires if you look at the MSDS for the various forms used as stove fuel. The reason is simple, you need a heavy spray of water to safely extinguish an alcohol fire. If you simply pour water over the fire, it can cause the fire to flow off and end up burning in places you don't have as good access to. This can lead to a fire burning without you being aware of it. BoatUS has a book, Seaworthy, based on 20 years of their insurance records and this is clearly documented in it. 

The other problem is that flames from an alcohol fire can be nearly invisible, especially in sunlight. This means that your only realize it after it is too late. 

Mitch—

Diesel is far safer than alcohol, but more of a pain to cook with. 

Alofns—

If you do decide to get the stove, remember to let the "cans" cool down completely before trying to re-fill them. Not doing this is a common mistake made and that leads to injuries and fires.


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## mitchbrown (Jan 21, 2009)

Saildog

Yes I agree that diesel is a safe fuel for cooking, I didn't mention it because it is not really used anymore in sailboat or atleast it is not at all common

Mitch


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

sailingdog said:


> BUBB-
> 
> Water, at least sources you'd find on a boat, are not considered "safe" methods of extinguishing alcohol fires if you look at the MSDS for the various forms used as stove fuel. The reason is simple, you need a heavy spray of water to safely extinguish an alcohol fire. If you simply pour water over the fire, it can cause the fire to flow off and end up burning in places you don't have as good access to. This can lead to a fire burning without you being aware of it. BoatUS has a book, Seaworthy, based on 20 years of their insurance records and this is clearly documented in it.
> 
> ...


Dog, Diesel is a pressurized fuel. 2 to 3 psi. It is fed to the stove though a metering valve. If that valve fails, Then you have a stream of fuel feeding your fire. You could conceivably have have diesel running across the cabin sole on fire. There is no way that diesel is safer, than non-pressurized alcohol.

I am sure that us boat does not recommend to use water to put out a alcohol fire. But I telling you, a sauce pan of water will put out the flame on a Origo 4000. However, this would not work on any pressurized fuel. But then again you can not get a flair up with a non-pressurized stove. The only way I know of to get into trouble with an non-pressurized stove is to over fill the cans, filling hot cans or spilling alcohol when refueling. All of which are inherent of operator error and can not caused by a mechanical malfunction of the stove.

If a person can catch his boat on fire using non-pressurized alcohol then I would suggest to you it is just as well the person not be trusted with propane or diesel. Screwing up a Origo 4000 is like screwing up corn flakes. I am sure it can be done, but you got to make an effort.


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

i would never used a pressurized liquid fuel stove on a boat. i have many camping stoves and they all flair up at some point, not often but they do. 

in my book propane, non pressure alky, and NG are fine. propane being the worst of those.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Thank you, sd.

Bubb, why bother with a non-pressurized alcohol burner (it isn't a STOVE unless there's an OVEN in there) when you can just buy tins of Sterno?

I'd still rather eat cold food. And that's never stopped me from finding a way to make hot coffee, either.<G>


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

hellosailor said:


> Thank you, sd.
> 
> Bubb, why bother with a non-pressurized alcohol burner (it isn't a STOVE unless there's an OVEN in there) when you can just buy tins of Sterno?
> 
> I'd still rather eat cold food. And that's never stopped me from finding a way to make hot coffee, either.<G>


Have it your way!


​Alcohol Range (Stove and Oven) 
ORIGO 6000 Range​


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## eMKay (Aug 18, 2007)

The alcohol the PO used on my boat smells like candy, it's stronger than the diesel small so I'm happy with it so far


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## Keldee (Jun 23, 2008)

Just to add another voice to praise the ORIGO non pressured alchohol cooking device. It is quiet efficient non messy and unless you are an absolute idiot( e.g.no curtains above the stove) also very safe.


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

hellosailor said:


> when you can just buy tins of Sterno?


I was messing around the Internet and found out some things.

The burner of a Dickerson propane stove puts out 8,200 btu's.

A Origo 4000 burner puts out 7,000 btu's.

A can of Sterno puts out a 1,000 to 2,500 btu's.

I thought the penalty for using non-pressurized alcohol was greater then 1,200 btu's. But then again, I never thought they cooked all that much slower in my experience.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

The only time my pressurised alcohol stove makes obnoxious choke inducing fumes is if it is REALLY over primed. Here is a post I did on the subject:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/49671-priming-pressurized-alcohol-stoves.html


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

I am not surprised at the small BTU difference between Origo and propane. I have propane at home and an Origo 6000 on the boat and make coffee every morning in exactly the same way on both. It might take a little longer on the Origo but not so much it is really noticeable. I have used propane stoves on all the charter boats I was ever on and wouldnt replace my Origo even if you gave me a propane stove for free.

Alcohol flames really arent "invisible". Maybe in some light that is true, but in my boat I can see the flames.

Alcohol, unlike propane, is lighter than air and evaporates when spilled rather than collecting in the bilge to blow up. Propane does this every now and then. Blowing up your boat is a major bummer.

Origo stoves are extremely simple devices. There really isnt anything on them to break and nothing is under pressure.

I get the feeling that most of the negative opinions about alcohol stoves are from people who have had bad experienced with pressurized alcohol and never used an Origo.


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## Keldee (Jun 23, 2008)

Another good point about Origo stoves : there is no "installation" no finding a safe place to put a propane tank.Just buy the darn thing and put it in place and remember to check whether it needs filling before you use it or the "wick" will get burnt. I used to keep a record of when I filled them to keep track of how often they need filling.


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

A few years ago I found a cast iron griddle that fits the top of my Origo 4000. With both burners going at breakfast, I am a pancake, egg, and bacon cooking machine.

One side of the griddle is flat and the other side has ridges for grilling steaks or chicken which I only do inside when it's raining. Otherwise, We are cooking on the BBQ on the rail.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

sck5 said:


> I am not surprised at the small BTU difference between Origo and propane. I have propane at home and an Origo 6000 on the boat and make coffee every morning in exactly the same way on both. It might take a little longer on the Origo but not so much it is really noticeable. I have used propane stoves on all the charter boats I was ever on and wouldnt replace my Origo even if you gave me a propane stove for free.
> 
> Alcohol flames really arent "invisible". Maybe in some light that is true, but in my boat I can see the flames.


Depends on the fuel, but some alcohol flames are basically all but invisible, especially in sunlight.



> Alcohol, unlike propane, is lighter than air and evaporates when spilled rather than collecting in the bilge to blow up. Propane does this every now and then. Blowing up your boat is a major bummer.


Might want to check your facts. All alcohol fumes are DENSER THAN AIR. Alcohol has a higher molecular weight than Nitrogen gas, the primary component of air... It will gather in your bilges and can lead to an explosion. However, the LEL limits of most forms of alcohol are high enough that the explosion risk is pretty insignificant.



> Origo stoves are extremely simple devices. There really isnt anything on them to break and nothing is under pressure.
> 
> I get the feeling that most of the negative opinions about alcohol stoves are from people who have had bad experienced with pressurized alcohol and never used an Origo.


I've used Origo alcohol "can" stoves. They're basically a giant alcohol lamp with a really wide wick... big deal. They work. They're slow. They have some issues, mainly to do with alcohol as a fuel. They can be a serious risk if you try filling the cans before they've cooled off completely.


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## Keldee (Jun 23, 2008)

Why would anyone try filling them before they have cooled.I am sorry Sailingdog but Origo is not THAT slow I have happily cooked with it for 2 years 24/7. When we were stuck at Chub Key for 2 weeks along with many other boats due to adverse winds the people with propane stoves were running out with no means of filling up but those with alcohol could buy some at the local hardware store.Maybe an Origo tucked away as a back up would be a good idea.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Hate to break it to you Keldee, but there are people who have done this and the insurance companies have the records to prove it. _Stupidity is not preventable._

It usually occurs when someone is cooking and forgot to fill the can before starting the meal...now the meal is half cooked and they need to fill the cans to finish cooking it...but don't want to wait because the meal will get cold and it will take too long....etc... and so they try filling the cans before they're cool enough to be re-filled safely.

If you want to read about some of the cases, go and buy the BoatUS book, Seaworthy...



Keldee said:


> Why would anyone try filling them before they have cooled.I am sorry Sailingdog but Origo is not THAT slow I have happily cooked with it for 2 years 24/7. When we were stuck


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

sailingdog said:


> They can be a serious risk if you try filling the cans before they've cooled off completely.


And those would be the same people who turn on a propane burner and listen to it hiss for 30 or 45 min. before they strike a match to lite the burner. You can engineer in safety, but you can't engineer out stupid.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Amen to that bubb...


bubb2 said:


> *You can engineer in safety, but you can't engineer out stupid.*


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## Keldee (Jun 23, 2008)

What bubb2 said was what I was trying to say only he did it better.
Good lad


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## preservedkillick (Feb 7, 2008)

Plus one for the Orego stove. I like mine quite a bit. I've got propane at home, and I'm sure it boils water faster, but not my much. Besides, if it takes an extra 45 seconds to boil water for coffee will it kill you? We're on sailboats. Who's in that much of a rush?

I've got a buddy with an orego 2 burner on his boat, and he's lost the little rubber covers for the fuel canisters. I definitely notice an acrid smell after he fills his canisters. I keep the rubber covers on mine to avoid that smell.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

Re: smells, we just bought our Origo 4100, and it works really well. We are ditching out Force 10 propane set up for the Origo, and it looks like so far it's going to work out really well. So far I can't say enough good things about it, it's so simple. We love it.

When we first got it, we filled one "can" element wit high quality denatured stove alcohol, we even bought the expensive "green" stuff (still toxic, more on that in a minute).

It worked pretty well flame wise, but definitely had the "smell". So much so we were a little worried about our bird and using the stove. I did a little research on what denatured alcohol actually is, and from what I can tell it's just grain alcohol, "poisoned" (made "not natural" = denatured) to be sold in a different industry, with no liquor license or consumable regulation needed.

So... I bought some grain alcohol, 190 proof ...



And put it in the other can element, and it made the stove work really really well. Very hot stable visible flame, absolutely zero smell, and it's 100% natural. Were not burning any poisons this way. It's expensive, but for the reasons we want to go with non pressurized alcohol, it's worth it to us. There are liquor stores throughout most of the world I would imagine...


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Looks like a terrible waste of good alcohol.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Mitiempo-

I think his boat imploded:










Look at all them parts...


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

chris, are you planning to sail across any international borders?

Because many of them ask "Do you have any alcohol or firearms?" and if your "stove fuel" exceeds their limit on drinking alcohol--which may be as little as one liter--the nice man is going to confiscate your grain alcohol. If he doesn't fine you, that just means he plans to disappear it for his own personal use.

So you might want to check the liquor regs, or perhaps...a rogue and scoundrel might accumulate some shatterproof empty stove fuel tins and repackage it that way. (I never said that!)


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

If you put it in stove fuel tins make sure you clean them out thoroughly in case the cook wants a sip.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

hellosailor said:


> chris, are you planning to sail across any international borders?
> 
> Because many of them ask "Do you have any alcohol or firearms?" and if your "stove fuel" exceeds their limit on drinking alcohol--which may be as little as one liter--the nice man is going to confiscate your grain alcohol. If he doesn't fine you, that just means he plans to disappear it for his own personal use.
> 
> So you might want to check the liquor regs, or perhaps...a rogue and scoundrel might accumulate some shatterproof empty stove fuel tins and repackage it that way. (I never said that!)


Very interesting! Thanks for the perspective. I will definitely make sure to put my cooking alcohol in some sort of fuel tank or storage system that does not betray what it is.

And I will include a straw for nips...:laugher

Seriously though, thanks for the insight.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> Mitiempo-
> 
> I think his boat imploded:
> 
> ...


Oh, it's a scene man...

There is no better feeling than watching your house empty and your boat fill..

She's getting built and the day looms... I am in the process of getting my chainplates made this week... bronze...


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