# First Boat-31' Southern Cross or 27' Hunter



## gentryd (Mar 16, 2007)

I'm new to sailing and have my eye on two boats that I can get next to nothing. A 31' Southern Cross, Hull #89 which will take quite abit of work to restore or a 1984 27' Hunter that can be ready to sail with minor cleaning and repair. There's alot of info on Hunter's, some people love them, others hate them. I'm really looking for advise on the SC, doesn't seem to be many out there. Good boats? Ok for starting sailor? Are they manufactured hulls or kits? etc. Any and all info on SC and/ or advice-opinion of the Hunter vs. SC for 1st boat is most appreciated.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

The main point is you're talking two different kinds of boats.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Do you want to sail or do you want to work on a boat?

Forget (for a little while) about the differences between the two boats (and there are lots!). If you want to start sailing now, buy the Hunter, do what you have to do, and START SAILING. 

If you decide to buy the SC, make a list of what needs to be done to make it ready for sailing, double the cost, triple the time, and go for it!

After you have sailed for a year or so you will have a much better idea of what kind of boat you want. Maybe the Hunter will be it, maybe not. Either way, since you can get the boat for next to nothing it won't cost much.

Good luck,
Barry


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## gentryd (Mar 16, 2007)

*Expand response*

Could you elaborate? As I'm new to sailing I'm not sure what you mean. Two diffent boats as in difficulty in sailing, quality, maintenance
, etc.?


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

as different as a chevy nova and a dodge one ton pickup.

when you say "next to nothing" theres a reason why. typically the cost to make them seaworthy exceeds the marketable value, (even if you do ALL of the work yourself) 

if you could, rip off a sheet with what the obvious issues are, we'll be sure to shoot down your dreams... 
just kidding, there isn't a one of us here that doesn't want other people to share our joy and passion. Leave the cuban out of this (inside joke)


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Differences between Southern Cross and Hunter 27.

Here are some ripped off remarks on the Southern Cross:

The Southern Cross 31 is a double ended full keel cutter capable of extended offshore passages. Designed by Thomas Gillmer & built & factory finished with options in Rhode Island by C.E. Ryder. This model is well known for quality construction, outstanding offshore capabilities. She is the perfect choice for a cruising couple on a budget searching for a blue water yacht that can take them anywhere.....

The Hunter is a 'coastal cruiser' meaning that it designed for day sails, weekend trips, or longer, but not more than a fwe hours from safe harbor. The Hunter will be easier to sail and more responsive due to being a sloop (one head sail) instead of a cutter (two head sails) and having a fin keel instead of a full keel.

As previously written, think of the Hunter as the Chevy Nova - good for basic transportation. Nothing fancy, good for running to the grocery store. Not real strong. The SC is the heavy duty pick up. Capable, strong, powerful, but not so good for short trips.

Good luck,
Barry


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

If you want to dink around the coast, go for the Hunter. I wouldn't, because there are better coastal boats for quality and seaworthiness in my mind. But if it's a matter of getting off the dock and learning to sail, it's adequate. 

If you want a boat you can grow into, however, pick the Southern Cross. It won't go as fast as the Hunter in club racing, but after club racing gets boring, you could transit the Atlantic in it. A light-air champ it isn't, admittedly, but if you ever ride in a Hunter in a squall and ride in an SC, you'll appreciate the difference.



I suspect that if you get the Hunter as a first boat, you'll go to a Catalina and then to a Beneteau. If you got the SC, you might go to a Pacific Seacraft and then, if you got rich, to a nice big J/Boat. It's a sort of philosophy of sailing idea, I guess.

The last thing is that a beat-up SC is probably worth fixing up, because it will always find a buyer (unless survey says it's truly, deeply compromised as opposed to merely neglected/dirty/crusty), whereas a Hunter 27 is a "throwaway" to anyone beyond the weekend inshore daysailer...and it's a little small for even that these days.


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## rtbates (Jan 30, 2007)

I say get the ocean boat, the SC. Then when you're coastal sailing and a storm hits, you have the option of heading offshore, away from the dangers of land. With the Hunter you have only one choice, head for shelter and hope the harbor entrance isn't too dangerous by the time you arrive , or it's pitch black.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

*Cheap boats are expensive...*



gentryd said:


> I'm new to sailing and have my eye on two boats that I can get next to nothing. A 31' Southern Cross, Hull #89 which will take quite abit of work to restore or a 1984 27' Hunter that can be ready to sail with minor cleaning and repair. There's alot of info on Hunter's, some people love them, others hate them. I'm really looking for advise on the SC, doesn't seem to be many out there. Good boats? Ok for starting sailor? Are they manufactured hulls or kits? etc. Any and all info on SC and/ or advice-opinion of the Hunter vs. SC for 1st boat is most appreciated.


GentryD,
Many if not most Southern Cross's were sold as kits, where the quality of the result varies enormously. Most people would call the SC an "offshore" design where the boat's slowness is justified by its ability to handle tough conditions, a premise that gets some arguement. Nonetheless, the 31 rates 222 in PHRF which is quite slow for the size. You'd be much better off with a classic fin keel like a Pearson or Catalina 30 unless you feel the "offshore" design (or at least the pretension of such) is important to you.

I would think it a bad idea to buy a fix-me-upper (FMU)for a first boat, as you will be amazed at the cost and time involved in doing boat work - I believe many FMU buyers (myself included) end up upside financially - putting far more money into the boat than the resulting market value. A cheap boat can end up being very expensive...The cheapest boat to buy, is to pay a fair market price for a well-equipped, well maintained, needs-nothing boat - typically the guy selling it is taking a hosing (me for example).

Hunters in general, and old Hunters in particular, have a spotty reputation, the source of a good deal of discusssion/dispute on this board. See http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/hunter28.htm to get a feel for the reasons for the reputation. You would be better off to pay a bit more and get a Catalina.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The SC series of boats have proven themselves capable of circumnavigations. Donna Lange is in the process of completing one in her SC 28. The two boats are very different, as the other posters have said here, and I think you really need to figure out what you want to get the boat for. 

The Southern Cross 31 is a full-keel bluewater boat. It is going to be far heavier than the Hunter, and probably far slower, given the same conditions. However, in rough seas, the Southern Cross will likely be far more forgiving. 

I wouldn't recommend getting a Southern Cross 31 as your first boat. Especially not one that isn't is ready-to-sail-away shape. Many new boat owners get a "fixer-upper" and get discouraged at all the work, since the boat isn't often sailable. 

You also don't say what you intentions are for the boat, or what your budget is. If you don't have at least $7-10,000 set aside to fix up the Southern Cross 31, then don't even bother looking at it. 

Don Casey says in his book This Old Boat, that many boat buyers generally pick the wrong boat as their first boat, and the lessons they learn from buying their first boat often mean that their second boat is one that they end up keeping for years, since they have learned what they are really looking for in a boat by then. 

Older Hunters, with some exceptions, can be questionable in quality. It would help more if you said what vintage 27' Hunter you were looking at. 

One other point on the Southern Cross... most of their boats had cored hulls, and if not properly maintained, run the risk of core breakdown and delamination.

If your goal is to learn more about sailing, and to have a boat you can daysail, and coastal cruise in for upto about a week at a time, then, I'd say get the Hunter. If you want to sail around the world or across an ocean, and are looking to get a boat that you can make into the perfect boat for doing so for yourself, and are willing to spend the next year or more modifying it and restoring it...then get the Southern Cross 31. 

As a general rule, with used boats, it is often far more economical to buy one that is in sailable shape than to buy a comparable boat that is not and refurbish it. The price difference is often just a small fraction of what the refitting or repairing would cost.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

A 31 foot sailboat in good condition costs a minimum of $50,000.00 You can pay it several ways..all upfront when you buy a boat in decent condition, half and half buying something that is okay but needs work, or nothing at the front end and spending the other $47,500.00 over the following twelve months. But sooner or later - you are going to spend it. So if you don't have 50K to spend over the next twelve months, you can't afford the Southern Cross.

Also, I am honestly not trying to offend you, but if you are at a level of experience where you are not aware of the differences between the Hunter anad the Southern Cross, then you are not ready for one.

There is a lavyer of balsa between the inner and outer fibreglass skins of the boat. If it is cheap, it is likely that there is a problem there, and unless you've beeen working on boats for a while, you don't have the expertise to repair it properly.

Get the Hunter - have a great time, learn to sail and run aground a few times. If you maintain it and even upgrade it a little you will always be able to sell it for what you paid for it.


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## gentryd (Mar 16, 2007)

The Hunter is 1984, cabin, deck and hull pretty good shape but does need bottom job. Also needs front hatch. Has running Renault 8 Hp deisel and comes with 3 sails. Can pick up for $1500.00, can probably pick up SC around same price but you're right, alot of time and money.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The SC31 must be in really rotten shape. Ones in good condition list for about $30,000, and sell for probably about $22-26,000, depending on their condition and what equipment is on them. 

A mid-1980s Hunter is probably a boat I'd want to avoid. That was the time period that had gained Hunter much of its reputation for making really flimsy and shoddy boats. Getting a keelboat that is longer than 26' for less than $10,000 is generally going to be a boat in pretty bad shape, that either needs a lot of work or has serious structural issues.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Getting a keelboat that is longer than 26' for less than $10,000 is generally going to be a boat in pretty bad shape, that either needs a lot of work or has serious structural issues.


A friend of mine got a late '70s Pearson 30 in good shape for $10K last season and shipped it from Conn. to Toronto. He's got fresh sails and a few odds and ends, put in a new head (the wife was squeamish) and spent about $3000 in total getting it right.

So it *can* be done...but you've got to be really picky. As his last boat was a late '60s 24 foot Shark, he's over the moon with all that wide open space and 5' 10" headroom


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Valiente said:


> A friend of mine got a late '70s Pearson 30 in good shape for $10K last season and shipped it from Conn. to Toronto. He's got fresh sails and a few odds and ends, put in a new head (the wife was squeamish) and spent about $3000 in total getting it right.
> 
> So it *can* be done...but you've got to be really picky. As his last boat was a late '60s 24 foot Shark, he's over the moon with all that wide open space and 5' 10" headroom


It happens, but not too commonly...and this guy is looking at *$1500* if I read his post right... when was the last time you saw a 27'+ boat that was in decent shape for less than $10,000???


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## gentryd (Mar 16, 2007)

$1500.00 is read right, basically paying past due slip fees, guy just wants out of it. My inquiry was on SC boats as there's not alot out there, Said I was new to sailing, not to boating. Been on saltwater boats all my life and have totally redone 2 fiberglass boats. Don't know sailboats, but do know boats. Thought I'd square that up as some responses lead to the perception that I'm ignorant to boating altogether. I do appreciate all the responses, they have been most helpful


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Ahhhh - so if you're not a boating newbie then we don't have to be qute so nice to you  We try to be on our best behaviour with total landlubbers    

...anyway...a Southern Cross has a cored hull, which is a bad, bad thing in a neglected boat. They were sold (mostly as unfinished shells) to people who wanted Valiants but couldn't afford them.

Because they were owner-finished inside, you are almost guaranteed that there are holes through the skin and into the core, and that the core is wet - hence rotten in places. Besides, they are fat, slow and ugly and sometimes the kindest thing to do to a boat is just let it sink as nature intended...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Sailormann-

The coring in the hull of the Southern Cross boats isn't balsa, IIRC, it is cored with Airex, which was IIRC a PVC-based foam. I believe the decks were cored with end-grain balsa, rather than the Airex material. 

Also, many of the Southern Crosses may have been owner finished, but some were factory finished. 

They may be slow, but they're very solid boats, if they were properly maintained, and are reasonably priced for a bluewater capable boat. Pat Henry circumnavigated in her SC31, and Donna Lange is about to finish a circumnavigation in an SC28. Not too many other boats can compete for the price, size and value. 

One major advantage the Southern Cross has as a cruising boat is that the cabin temperature tends to be a bit easier to control thanks to the cored hull and deck. Also, it tends not to have the condensation problems in cooler weather than a solid fiberglass boat will have. 

The Elizabethan 31 and the Hallberg-Rassy Monsun are two others that are about the same size and value, and with about the same capabilities.


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## gentryd (Mar 16, 2007)

Does anybody know if there's a way to find out if the hull was factory finished or kit by the hull #. I'm really thinking now I should get them both. Dry dock the SC for a couple of years and take my time with her, and learn the sailing ropes on the Hunter until I finish the SC


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## jackytdunaway (Sep 11, 2006)

I''m sort of a newbie but for the money if you can't make up your mind and have the room get them both. Sail the Hunter while you spet the next few years tinkering with the SC. Just don't try to make them both bristol. spend the money and time on the SC and wear what liitle there is of the hunter out while you sail it. But like i said i am a newbie

P-27


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## jackytdunaway (Sep 11, 2006)

While i was typing you where reading my mind. Get out of there. I know where it's been and you don't want to go there


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Good idea - get both !


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Wow, thats a lot of brain power, you guys ok? No, really, good idea if you can afford it and the SC is not a total waste.


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## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

Don't waste your time with the hunter IF you want to end up with the SC....I'm still trying to sell my Pearson 26 after buying it only 10months ago, after deliberating over the same process. There is no comparison between the 2 boats. The SC feels like a big ship compared to the Pearson. The difference in size is huge between the 2 boats. The SC has 6'3 headroom, I can't even stand up in the Pearson. I just cut the cabintop off of the SC to re-core it. Don't listen to anyone who tells you you can't do it on your own..and the materials are pretty cheap! Have the hull thoroughly checked for delamination though! I would really sit down and check out the 2 boats....you'll see the difference.


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## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

Old hunters can be alot of work too! So you might be buying 2 projects, not a sail now boat and a project boat. If you work hard it should't take more than a year (maybe less) to finish the SC...just sail with buddies until then!


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Damn, I'm so confused and its not even my thread! Everyone has good points. 
Personally, I would buy the SC and fix it. You can buy a dinghy in perfect condition with a trailer for $1500 and sail the heck out of it until the SC is ready. In the end you will be much happier with the SC. Its just a better boat, plain and simple.


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## gentryd (Mar 16, 2007)

Yeah I'm considering that also. The Hunter is in good shape from what I can see. Don't know actual hull condition until I could get her lifted up and look at it, could end up with more work than I really want and certainly 1 project is enough


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

gentryd said:


> Does anybody know if there's a way to find out if the hull was factory finished or kit by the hull #. I'm really thinking now I should get them both. Dry dock the SC for a couple of years and take my time with her, and learn the sailing ropes on the Hunter until I finish the SC


You know if they are that cheap and you have the three grand, hell, yes. I had my old cruiser and my newer motorsailer at the same time last season and we've never had so many days sailing...because we had two very different boats and no excuses not to go!


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## gentryd (Mar 16, 2007)

Well I guess I have decisions to make. At least I know what I suspected when I started this that the SC is a much better boat, or could be depending on actual condition(i've only been able to view the outside so far). Also better suited for my long term sailing visions, virgin Islands, carribean and such. Just wish I could find out if it is factory or privately finished. It does have a plaque in the cockpit that says SC Ryder Bristol 89. Don't know if that means anything in regard to factory finish


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Another question for the mix. Is there a way to find out the owner history? You can go to the DMV and ask for a title search for a car, wonder if you can do that for a boat. Maybe you could find the original owner.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The one thing that everyone seems to be ignoring is the costs of storing and maintaining two boats. Unless you have the space to store the SC31 while you're working on it for relatively cheap... getting both boats is going to be an expensive proposition. You still have to pay taxes and registration fees on both boats as well. 

If the hull and standing rigging on the SC31 are in good shape... no delaminated areas, no water intrusion into the core, no broken shrouds or stays—then the SC31 would be a bargain as a project boat. 

Keep in mind that it will be a very time-consuming and expensive project to refit a Southern Cross that isn't in great shape to begin with... but as long as the hull and rigging are in fairly good shape, the rest can be done fairly easily by you, given time, materials and patience.

You could contact the Southern Cross Owners Association, as they may have some idea of the history of the boat.


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## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

Funny you should say SD,,,it's 5am on a Saturday and i'm wide awake stressing over how i am going to come up with 2 moring fees this summer....i just paid 2k to store them both this winter. Now there are 2 other Pearsons for sale on Lake Champlain, so if mine doesn't sell this summer i'm stuck paying storage next winter too!!!! Maybe i should have stuck with the Hobie cats....


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## gentryd (Mar 16, 2007)

I live on TX gulf coast. The Marina where I'll be putting a boat is only 70.00/mo for slip irregardless of boat size. Wouldn't be overly costly for 2 but if I end up with SC I'll plan on binging it to my house to work on. I'm sur there's a pretty good cost associated with moving it as I don't have a trailer to accomodate a 31' boat and will probably need a crane to lift it off the trailer and shore it up once at my place. A question on surveys, can a survey be done with the boat in the water? Hull lamination and water intrusion of the core have come up several times in this forum, seems like something I should have checked before I decide to dive head first into the SC.


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## gentryd (Mar 16, 2007)

Back to finding out SC history, I tried contacting SCOA, they referred me here. I have actually met the owner of the SC or been in it yet. I've been on it and viewed inside through port holes, that's where I get impression that interior cabin needs alot of work. Deck and rigging look to be in pretty good shape. The deal is working through the marina owner who know's the boat owner and says he can get the boat for next to nothing and maybe even nothing. So for now all I have to go on is the SC Ryder Bristol 89 identification.


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## gentryd (Mar 16, 2007)

"I have not actually met the owner". (I needed to correct that


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## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

Try southerncross-boats.org for the SCOA website. There is a part on factory specs under site info....they show they factory layout and brochure. My boat even had the same fabric on the setees...nasty  The factory interior had 2 basic layouts. One with a quarter birth behind the nav table....one with storage behind. There should be a full v-berth forward, enclosed head to starboard, fold down table with large setees on either side. The galley's are pretty small but came with a nice gimballed stove. 
The hulls are cored with air-ex so they will not rot. You should have the boat hauled to have a good survey done. They need to tap out the hull and go over it with a moisture gauge to find any issues. I have not heard of too many issues...its just something you want to be sure doesn't exist. The big problems with these boats are the plywood core used under the mast step. They get wet because there was no crown built into the skin, so water puddles up on it. On mine the area under the step was actually compressed slightly so the problem was even worse (puddle) . I suspect most of the water got in where the wiring for the mast comes through the deck on my boat. I could squeeze the core between my fingers and water just oosed out. It was actually boiling out of my cut through the skin, from the heat of the saw blade! 
It sounds like you don't mind fiberglass work...so youv'e got that covered. If you really want to have a solid seaworthy boat...go for it. I wouldn't even sail my Pearson 26 in the ocean...the lake is about all it can handle! I couldn't even imagine a future in sailing if i had to stick with the Pearson.


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## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

I would go with Bestfriend's advice and buy a sailing dinghy....that way when the SC is finished you don't have to sell the hunter and you already have a good dinghy that you are familiar with. If you really can get the SC for 1,500 and the hull is in good shape, your'e getting a deal....just look at the prices on yachtworld (also photos of factory interior).


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

A survey, especially of a cored hull boat, needs to be done both in the water and on the hard, as there are some things that can not be done in the water and others that can't be done on the hard. Ideally, it would be best to let the hull sit for a while so you can get accurate moisture readings of it.. but a good surveyor can learn alot even without that. _The real worry is that one of the PO did something stupid and drilled through the cored area of the hull (starts about 2' from the keel, the keel and very bottom isn't cored IIRC) without potting the hole properly._

If you do decide to buy the SC31, you'll also need to buy or make a storage cradle for it, so that it can be kept safely on land. I would also recommend taking the rig down, if you're going to keep it on the hard for an extended period of time. The mast and rigging add a fair bit of windage, and hurricanes and other storms love to use that windage to turn the boat into a domino.

The best way to move the SC31 would probably be a hydraulic trailer, like the ones used by Brownell Systems.

I'd also agree that BF's idea of getting a small sailing dinghy, especially one that you can use as a tender to the SC31 might be a better idea than getting the Hunter.  Might be a bit more expensive in the short run, but will probably be cheaper to do in the long run.

Check the tabbing on the interior bulkheads, if you get a chance to inspect the interior of the boat. Chances are likely that the tabbing will be a good way to tell if it is a factory-interior or a owner installed interior. Most owner installed interiors aren't tabbed in properly from what I've heard and seen.

Damn, I wish the slips were that cheap up here... storage for both of your boats for the years is less than what mine costs me...


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Slip cost here ( low end ) are $70.00 a foot for the April to October season. Wow, $70.00 a month....


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Hi Gentryd, In September i had a choice between a 1980 Irwin 30 foot that needed all bulkheads refiberglassed and deck cores repaired, or a O'day302 at double the price needing bottom paint and minor maintenance but sea worthy. I went with the O'day as this is my first boat and wanted to spend my time sailing not working on a boat.

Good luck and have fu sailing. Dennis


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Gentry...It sounds like you are comfortable doing a lot of boat work yourself AND that you really want a boat that can take you to the islands in safety and comfort. 
To me..this means you should focus on the Southern Cross. The real question is whether at $1500 it is a bargain or a sink-hole. Given the $30K price for one of these in PRISTINE condition and the amount of time and effort that will be put into the boat you are looking at....you might make out OK if you ONLY had to put $20K into her to make her pristine. So...you need a good survey to identify what will need to be done. 
An engine rebuilding will set you back $5k...deck delamination, new rigging, new sails, new electronics all can add up so ultimately it is a matter of knowing what is wrong...how much time/effort and money it will take to fix it and whether it makes sense in light of the marketplace. It is NOT simply a $1500 "throwaway" investment as it will likely cost you much more to discover that it doesn't make sense. So...spend the money on a good survey and know what you are getting into. 
As far as learning to sail...the boat may not be ideal for that but that is only a matter of degree of ease. You can also learn on a sailing dinghy while you work on "the boat". 
Good luck with the decision making.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

One point about getting a good survey of the boat is that you don't want to buy it and then find out that it has serious, irreparable problems, because then it is your responsibility to dispose of the boat...and that can get pretty expensive.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

*Why so cheap...*



gentryd said:


> $1500.00 is read right, basically paying past due slip fees, guy just wants out of it.....


Given that these boats are listing for the area 0f $30k, and taking for granted that this example has some DIY interior probably of dubious value, I'd say the seller would ask this price only if he/she knows of $10-20,000 of essential repairs needed to get the boat into normal operating mode, thus giving the boat a zrero if not negative value.

As I've often said, the MOST you can hope in buying a boat is to get what you pay for...


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## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

In my opinion boatyard repair prices are ridiculously high and are only paid by people who make lots of money and don't need to worry. Replacing the core in my cabintop will cost about 800-1000 at most....and that is for a completely finished job and fully rebedded deck hardware. People who work on their own boats buy cheap ones because thay can't afford more. For this reason they will probably keep the boat for a long time and work hard on it. They don't care as much about re-sale value because they aren't spending 100k on the boat. There is no way i can make my non-skid look factory...there will be evidence of my repair, but i don't care...it will just remind me of all the hard work (along with the blood stains on the deck). I'm doing all of the thru-hulls, stuffing box, replacing the head, standing and running rigging (chainplates are fine which suprised me!), redoing all of the woodwork in and out, all of the plumming and a bunch of wiring. I am paying the yard 500 to media blast the hull, then barrier coating and painting it myself. All of this will cost several thousand...but the boats cost 65-75k new in 1978! So for 15-16k total i will have a boat that i am totally confident with and know all of the systems well. I'd really like to get a fully battened Doyle stackpack main and a monitor windvane someday...someday way off in the future . This is the only way I could afford a boat that i feel safe in on the ocean....otherwise i would not be able to do the sailing i want. I guess what i'm saying is that it's not really as expensive to do as everyone makes it out to be, just lots and lots of work...if your in the right boatyard!


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## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

With my boat came the factory owners directory. Hull #89 was originally sold to David Marsh of 2476 Highwood Drive in Dallas, Texas. It doesn't say if it was factory finished or not though. It came with ivory decks and hull.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I guess the OP could always try to give David Marsh a call.


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## gentryd (Mar 16, 2007)

Thanks Southerncross31, does it happen to mention what year it was sold to Mr. Marsh? Got some info from Ryder Yachts, hull ID on stern with CERSC31 is factory, CERG31 is kit. Guess I need to go back and look to see if I can find. Think we'll be talking alot if I get the SC. I've also totally rebuilt 3 houses in my time and a couple of engines so pretty handy with woodworking, electrical, plumbing, etc. as well as fiberglass.


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## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

Clarke Ryder built the boat and he's back in the marine business. I don't know how much information he has on the boats he built in the past but it might be worth dropping him a line if you're interested in the boat.

[email protected]

Nice guy and he's easy to talk to. He did the fiberglass molding on one of my Sea Sprites and Sea Sprite in Wickford RI put the boat together for my first trans-Atlantic trip. He bought the molds for the Sea Sprite after I sailed that one to England and started building boats.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Good to know Robert.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I've spoken to both George Cuthbertson (the living C in C&C Yachts) and to Phil Friedman, who designed my first and current boats, respectively. Talking to the designer (which morality is making increasingly tough) is a wonderful thing to have, as most of these guys, not unexpectedly, love talking about boats. I even sent my dimensional numbers to Ted Brewer for his opinion (as the new boat reflects some of his ideas indirectly) and he was kind enough to reply. Mr. Friedman sent me photostats of his original drawings...and this was for a custom job I hadn't commissioned (I'm the third owner).

Definitely talk to the designer if possible. Olin Stephens is still happy to discuss boats, for all I know, and he's nearly 100.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I've spoken with the designer of my boat and have enjoyed the discussins I've had with him about the good and bad points of his design. What is very refreshing is that he is open about the design issues that the boat went through, like an early problem with the rudder design during the development phase of the boat.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

George Cuthbertson is like that. The guy drew some of the most popular designs ever for about 20 years, but he's quite open about some of the (relatively few) shortcomings or not-so-hot designs he helped to create.

And he knows about the lifespan of balsa-cored decks...


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