# Old Member New boat Steel Folkes 33?



## willdadd

I've been a member of the site for quite a few years now, and have gone from an old beat up wooden boat to having a son and a wife now, and finally having a decent boat come my way.

I'm looking for advice and information from those experienced with folkes boats, and steek hulls in general.

Today I purchased my new boat, it is registered with these specs

Gross Tonnage (t)14.00
Net Tonnage (t)13.30
Construction TypeCARVEL/FLUSH
Construction MaterialSTEEL
Vessel Length (m)10.36
Vessel Breadth (m)3.51
Vessel Depth (m)1.83

So at 10.36m that works out to just over 33ft, however I cant find anything about a folkes 33.

From what I know so far the hull was manufactured in 1998, and she was worked on for about 7 years and registered and launched in 2005, she then sat in the shipyard on the hard for some time, and in the water for a couple years, and finally in the ship yard for the past 4-5 years. 

Naturally the hull paint is rough, but not terrible, there is some water damage to the interior due to condensation and lack of dehumidifier and heat.

However she has only ever travelled about 55 nautical miles since completion, the yanmar diesel has less than 10 hrs, the eletrical is all brand new and modern, the sails are like new. she has in mast furling , all brand new winches and the list goes on.

I got her for a pretty decent price and am wondering about others experiences with folkes boats and if anyone else has any additional information.

Thanks!


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## Faster

Congrats, sounds like you have a bit of a project yet, though...

Where is she? Shelter Island?


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## willdadd

On the hard mid island for now.

Yes it will be a bit of a project, and a little backwards for my liking as I'm a mechanically, electrically talented guy but that stuff is all good. its the headliner, and cabinetry that needs work, Im hoping I can salvage most of whats there, I have to get some heat and dehumidifier inside her and dry her out a bit and then go nuts with a shop vac. then I'll have a clearer picture of what needs doing.

first projects will be doing a service on the yanmar as it hasnt been rolled over in a few years, getting her back to running condition.
dryout and clean out an assess the damage.
drag out sails and assess condition, they were made 5 years ago, and though they've been furled, they've been exposed to alot of UV in that time and may have to be replaced.
Pressure wash the entire hull and get all the leaves and debris off of it
and if we get a few mild days I'd like to get some new bottom paint on her, new zincs, etc.


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## Brent Swain

Is it a double ender or canoe stern?
The biggest problem with Foukes was absolutely zero paint inside , under the foam. Drag your fingernails over the foam and listen for hollow spots. That is where you should dig it out and have a look to see what is protecting the steel. The foam is nowhere near enough protection.
Every inch of the inside of any steel boat should be heavily coated with thick coats of epoxy. 
Another problem with them was plastic thru hulls. They should all be replaced with stainless type 316 sch 40 pipe nipples, welded in, and stainless ball valves..
Furled sails should have no problem with UV damage, as only the first 6 inches are exposed, and usually that is under a cover. You can take that off the leech and foot, and still have good material remaining for the rest.


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## SloopJonB

Since you're mid-island, I'd get hold of Brent Swain and hire him to assess the boat and make recommendations - he knows steel boats and lives up there - Comox-Courtenay or environs.

P.S. Pics or it didn't happen.


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## willdadd

Thanks for the info Brent, this is the kind of info I've been looking for, do you know if the lack of paint inside the hull was an issue even as recently as 1998 FOLKES MANUFACTURING LTD?

I spotted the plastic thru hulls, they will be one of the first things to go.

Ran the sails out this morning they appear to be ok, got some heat and dehumidification inside, and vacuumed up the rat mess.

Lots to do, hopefully that doesnt include having to gut the interior sandblast and paint.

I would hope either the manufacture or the original owner, who gutted the partial interior and started from scratch would have done this.

Also not a double ender, but I wouldn't say its a canoe stern either? perhaps my limited knowledge is going to prove wrong but it looks more like a modern reverse kinda sorta... Will post a pic when I can manage to access her a little better, shes jammed in pretty tight at the shipyard.



Brent Swain said:


> Is it a double ender or canoe stern?
> The biggest problem with Foukes was absolutely zero paint inside , under the foam. Drag your fingernails over the foam and listen for hollow spots. That is where you should dig it out and have a look to see what is protecting the steel. The foam is nowhere near enough protection.
> Every inch of the inside of any steel boat should be heavily coated with thick coats of epoxy.
> Another problem with them was plastic thru hulls. They should all be replaced with stainless type 316 sch 40 pipe nipples, welded in, and stainless ball valves..
> Furled sails should have no problem with UV damage, as only the first 6 inches are exposed, and usually that is under a cover. You can take that off the leech and foot, and still have good material remaining for the rest.


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## Brent Swain

willdadd said:


> Thanks for the info Brent, this is the kind of info I've been looking for, do you know if the lack of paint inside the hull was an issue even as recently as 1998 FOLKES MANUFACTURING LTD?
> 
> I spotted the plastic thru hulls, they will be one of the first things to go.
> 
> Ran the sails out this morning they appear to be ok, got some heat and dehumidification inside, and vacuumed up the rat mess.
> 
> Lots to do, hopefully that doesnt include having to gut the interior sandblast and paint.
> 
> I would hope either the manufacture or the original owner, who gutted the partial interior and started from scratch would have done this.
> 
> Also not a double ender, but I wouldn't say its a canoe stern either? perhaps my limited knowledge is going to prove wrong but it looks more like a modern reverse kinda sorta... Will post a pic when I can manage to access her a little better, shes jammed in pretty tight at the shipyard.


If someone other than Foulkes ripped out the interior, and rebuilt it ,then the odds are better that it was painted at the time, but no guarantee. Scraping out the foam in a few places and having a look will give you a definitive answer. What shape are the bilges in? are they heavily epoxied? I have seen Foulkes boats with zero paint of any kind in the bilges.
I'd be happy to check her out sometime this winter, on the island.


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## willdadd

Brent Swain said:


> If someone other than Foulkes ripped out the interior, and rebuilt it ,then the odds are better that it was painted at the time, but no guarantee. Scraping out the foam in a few places and having a look will give you a definitive answer. What shape are the bilges in? are they heavily epoxied? I have seen Foulkes boats with zero paint of any kind in the bilges.
> I'd be happy to check her out sometime this winter, on the island.


I've only had a quick look at the bilges, but if memory serves I believe they're painted. Will peel some foam and get an idea whats below it.

She's on the hard in Ladysmith, if your in the area at some point give me a shout. I'll PM you my number.

On the bright side, I inspected the rigging today and found the build plates.. 2010. That made me real happy, sails are re-cuts but in great shape, winches all in surprising condition for not being covered for 5 years. and I think most of the lines will be ok.

I connected shore power, and the inverter/charger came right up and started charging batteries, (I topped them up) Guess we'll see if they recover to any usable level or not.

The galvanic isolation system appears to be functioning, propane system works, stove works, all vessel lights are working,.

Ice in the water strainer, but pressure water appears to work.

Just lots of cleaning and a bit of wood work to be done.

That and the paint is a bit rough not too sure what to do about it as I have no idea what system would have been used on the boat, and Im not to keen on the idea of having to remove all the rigging and portlights etc to sandblast.


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## SloopJonB

You can mask for sandblasting by wrapping things with soft foam rubber - like a couple of layers of carpet underlay. I knew a guy who created street number plates by masking ceramic tiles that way, leaving the numbers unmasked. He would sandblast the numbers 3/16" deep and when he unmasked they had razor sharp edges. The abrasive bounces off the foam rather than abrading it.


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## willdadd

One more question for the Canadians, I spoke with Transport Canada with regards to transferring ownership and registration. I was told that seller needs to provide a form 6 marine bill of sale, and I need to provide a form 3 statement of qualification. There is no spot on either for a price? is this standard?


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## Brent Swain

The nice thing about ss pipe niples for thru hulls is they don't have to be perpendicular to the hull plate. You can put them in paralell to the bulkheads, saving a lot of space.
Rounding off the plate edges in the hull plating reduces the tendency to chip paint off them. A thick coat of zinc primer on the freshly sandblasted steel gives you some time for touch up when the paint chips . It doesn't chip right down to bare steel, and the primer holds the fort for a while. Below the waterline ,welded on zincs give you all the protection you need.
Painting over existing paint, try a test spot, to see if the epoxy or urethane lifts the existing paint. Old paint is tough as hell in this regard, not more recent paint.


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## zedboy

willdadd said:


> One more question for the Canadians, I spoke with Transport Canada with regards to transferring ownership and registration. I was told that seller needs to provide a form 6 marine bill of sale, and I need to provide a form 3 statement of qualification. There is no spot on either for a price? is this standard?


It's been a few years since I transferred a license with Transport Canada, but I don't remember if they care about price - I think sales tax on used boats is a provincial issue.

I had the previous owner write me a letter stating they were selling me the boat, and we sent in a copy of the old license (all we had, it was licensed in like '62 and I bought it in ~'10) and they sent me the new papers right back.


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## SloopJonB

I did it online. If you are licensing and not registering it's a very simple process.


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## willdadd

Brent Swain said:


> The nice thing about ss pipe niples for thru hulls is they don't have to be perpendicular to the hull plate. You can put them in paralell to the bulkheads, saving a lot of space.
> Rounding off the plate edges in the hull plating reduces the tendency to chip paint off them. A thick coat of zinc primer on the freshly sandblasted steel gives you some time for touch up when the paint chips . It doesn't chip right down to bare steel, and the primer holds the fort for a while. Below the waterline ,welded on zincs give you all the protection you need.
> Painting over existing paint, try a test spot, to see if the epoxy or urethane lifts the existing paint. Old paint is tough as hell in this regard, not more recent paint.


Hi Brent, I went and took a better look at the bilge, its painted for sure looks to be fairly thick too. I also cut out a couple small pieces of foam and the inside of the hull is painted in all of my test spots, not sure if its epoxy or not but comforting to see and take a chip of the paint off and see nice bare blasted steel underneath.

Point of interest the keel is welded both sides, as I've heard this was an issue too.

I'm noticing alot of condensation is occuring on the hatches as they are both un insulated and they drip pretty bad. any suggestions for this? as they are both steel, I will be cutting the centers out in the spring to replace with something that allows more light in.


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## Brent Swain

Sounds good.
Being welded both sides is something Folkes rarely, if ever ,did. Sounds like someone else may have finished her , properly.
I glue back packers foam to the underside of the hatches to eliminate condensation. Rebuilding your hatch covers out of 1/8th inch aluminium makes them feel as light as cardboard. Doesnt cost all that much, especially of you find your aluminium in a scrapyard. ABC scrap at the junction of #3 road and Bridgeport in Richmond used to have lots of it.
Check out metalboatsociety.org , and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats
for tons of metal boat information.


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## willdadd

Brent one more for you, what are the chances of the LOA being wrong in the TC registry? I havent had a chance to get a tape out yet, but its listed in the registry as 10.36M however it looks bigger, and I was just looking at a folkes 39, and Im next to positive thats the exact same hull design?

Ok finally found a reference, registries must list the LWL, not LOA


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## willdadd

One more for anyone on the island, looking for a recommendation on a good interior guy? some wood repairs and changes.


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## Faster

There's a guy on Saltspring Is , Paul Bryant who does good work, but he's just moved over there and may be in the middle of building a house.. I might have an email for him, will check and PM if I find it.


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## willdadd

Faster said:


> There's a guy on Saltspring Is , Paul Bryant who does good work, but he's just moved over there and may be in the middle of building a house.. I might have an email for him, will check and PM if I find it.


Thanks I'd appreciate it.


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## Brent Swain

willdadd said:


> One more for anyone on the island, looking for a recommendation on a good interior guy? some wood repairs and changes.


Tony Lyons in Cumberland has done great work on some of my boats. He has a lot of offshore cruising experience , works fast, for not much money ,and does excellent work.


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## Brent Swain

willdadd said:


> Brent one more for you, what are the chances of the LOA being wrong in the TC registry? I havent had a chance to get a tape out yet, but its listed in the registry as 10.36M however it looks bigger, and I was just looking at a folkes 39, and Im next to positive thats the exact same hull design?
> 
> Ok finally found a reference, registries must list the LWL, not LOA


Take out he tape. If you are on land ,a plumb bob at the bow and stern gives you a good measurement between them ,for both overall length and waterline length.


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## Brent Swain

I have welded thru hulls in spray foamed hulls . I scrape out the foam for about three inches around the thru hull, then cover the foam with wet rags to stop it from catching fire. Painting the foam with cheap latex paint also makes a good fire retardant. It is also good to have someone standing by with a hose when you weld.
You can put the foam back with a spray can of foam, after you have replaced the burned epoxy . Some foams are more closed cell than others. I have been told that Tytan , sold at Lowes is excellent. "Great Stuff" is open celled, and absorbs water like a sponge.


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## willdadd

Thanks again Brent, one more for you, can you recommend a half decent carpenter to do some interior repairs? not a lot maybe a weeks work, installing new headliner, some trim and replacing the bulkhead at the companionway as it has rotted out, Im fine with mechanics, electrical and welding, but I draw the line at woodwork.. I keep trying but just cant get it to weld..

Also looking for a recommendation on a reasonably priced rigger to come take give the rigging a once over.

Thanks


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## Brent Swain

willdadd said:


> Thanks again Brent, one more for you, can you recommend a half decent carpenter to do some interior repairs? not a lot maybe a weeks work, installing new headliner, some trim and replacing the bulkhead at the companionway as it has rotted out, Im fine with mechanics, electrical and welding, but I draw the line at woodwork.. I keep trying but just cant get it to weld..
> 
> Also looking for a recommendation on a reasonably priced rigger to come take give the rigging a once over.
> 
> Thanks


Tony Lyons in Cumberland does good boat woodwork. He has put interiors in a lot of mine.


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## willdadd

Brent Swain said:


> Tony Lyons in Cumberland does good boat woodwork. He has put interiors in a lot of mine.


I can't find his number or contact information anywhere, online, phonebook etc. Any chance you have a way to reach him?

Thanks


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## Brent Swain

willdadd said:


> I can't find his number or contact information anywhere, online, phonebook etc. Any chance you have a way to reach him?
> 
> Thanks


I'll try get his number thru a friend of his tonite .


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## Brent Swain

willdadd said:


> I can't find his number or contact information anywhere, online, phonebook etc. Any chance you have a way to reach him?
> 
> Thanks


tonilyon AT gmail.com
is the email I have been given for him.


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## willdadd

So life circumstances have changed pretty drastically in the past few days, and I will be listing the boat for sale.. Can anyone recommend a good site?
I did get her surveyed and have a carpenter in the process of replacing water damaged bulkhead and headliner.


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## Brent Swain

willdadd said:


> So life circumstances have changed pretty drastically in the past few days, and I will be listing the boat for sale.. Can anyone recommend a good site?
> I did get her surveyed and have a carpenter in the process of replacing water damaged bulkhead and headliner.


You could try metalboatsociety.org
or the origamiboat site


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## Bleemus

willdadd said:


> So life circumstances have changed pretty drastically in the past few days, and I will be listing the boat for sale.. Can anyone recommend a good site?
> 
> I did get her surveyed and have a carpenter in the process of replacing water damaged bulkhead and headliner.


Sailboatlistings.com

Sorry to hear you have to sell it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SloopJonB

Bleemus - is this your boat?

39' Steel Cutter, liveaboard Bluewater cruiser, go anywhere Victoria City, Victoria


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## Bleemus

Jon,

Not my boat. Willdad is the OP and he is selling his but I haven't seen photos of it. 


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## Bleemus

Willdad. Saw your boat at sailboatlistings.com. You should add a lot more photos. People love photos. Helps them decide if they want to go look at it. 


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## willdadd

Yeah I'm just waiting for carpenter to finish up inside, bit of a cluster right now, and for the yard to move her to her new premium spot, it will be much easier to get some decent pics.
I've dropped price to 35k which is 10k less than the mast boom and rigging cost so I don't thing she'll sit around long.

Cheers


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## willdadd

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157661539554253


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## Faster

Surprised nobody jumped all over you for rolling out the sails on the hard!

Some nice gear, and rigging, there. However I fear it's not going to be an easy sell. It's still quite a bit of a project to get to completion and it's quite unrealistic to expect to get any serious percentage of the cost of the equipment (like engines/mast/boom) that has been renewed or is new. These are things that are 'expected to be there'.

I wish you luck, and hope you find a buyer with the required drive and mind set soon. Very sorry, btw, to hear that you've had to change your plans so drastically.


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## SloopJonB

The reality of new gear on a boat, especially an incomplete one, is the "10 cent rule". That is the brutal fact of the sailboat market these days.

An incomplete boat and a fully restored boat are both worth considerably less than the sum of their parts.


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## willdadd

Generally I wouldn't have dreamed of rolling out the sails, however the yard is well sheltered, and there wasn't a lick of wind all morning..

For the amount of actual work thats there, I think it would take the average semi skilled person a couple of weeks, and a few grand in paint, supplies etc.
I'm actually working away at it as shes listed, so once the weather gets nicer shes going to look a whole lot different real quick.

cheers


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## panthablue

I have a steel hull yacht. She was built in 1980, and still going strong. The secret to looking after a steel hull, to my mind, is to have the inside of the hull sprayed with polyurethane foam. This is a closed cell substance which is used as the core for surfboards. It's about one inch thick and covers the whole of the inside above the bilges.

It does three things. 1. Stops the boat from rusting inside. 2. Acts as a thermal insulator. 3. It's a good sound insulator.

I had this put in when the boat was new, so i appreciate it's more difficult for an older boat, but you may be able to put some in above the headlining, etc..

We had ours done by professionals, but you can buy the stuff in cans. Sometimes called "Flexible expanding Foam"


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