# Honda eu2000i and air conditioning



## gershel

*Honda eu2000i and Air Conditioning*

Just heard about a new product from Dometic. It's called a SmartStart controller. It reduces the amount of amps needed to start an air conditioner by 65%. I spoke to a tech from Dometic, who seemed to think, that a Honda 2000 could run a 16,000 btu Cruisair a/c. The cost for this unit is about $360. Sounds interesting. Sure would keep my wife "happy". Has anyone heard anything about this. It's only been available a few months.
Marc


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## chrisj13

I ran a small trailer a/c unit on just one honda 2000 w/o the comtroller. The honda's have the eco switch, which made a big difference. I have a second honda generator w/the link cord, but haven't had a need for it yet. Interested to hear more about the smart controller though, in case I want to run a larger a/c in the future.


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## gershel

Dometic Marine releases the SmartStart™ control - Dometic


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## PalmettoSailor

Yeah, I'll be keeping an eye on this product. If the reviews start rolling in positive, I might be getting a Honda genset.


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## hellosailor

Marc, I would guess it is a large capacitor with some brains added to it. If you charge the capacitor up, then allow both it and the generator to supply starting power to the load at the same time...presto-chango, you've doubled or tripled (etc) the amount of power being fed into the start-up process.

$360 sounds like a steep price to do that but I suppose with a small market and multiple mark-ups...


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## gershel

It's definitly cheaper than getting a larger generator.


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## 2Gringos

I have been talking to a potential boat seller ( I am in the market to buy right now) who has a mermaid 16,500 BTU air conditioner that he runs with the EU2000. He told me that it works fine, but he disconnected the blower for the air conditioner and wired a seperate socket for a second extension cord. He says the little Honda will start the compressor without the load of the fan. After a few seconds when the Honda gets through the surge, he plugs in the cord powering the blower.

I was thinking, if this worked, why not just wire in a switch between the blower and the ac power ?


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## gershel

2Gringos said:


> I have been talking to a potential boat seller ( I am in the market to buy right now) who has a mermaid 16,500 BTU air conditioner that he runs with the EU2000. He told me that it works fine, but he disconnected the blower for the air conditioner and wired a seperate socket for a second extension cord. He says the little Honda will start the compressor without the load of the fan. After a few seconds when the Honda gets through the surge, he plugs in the cord powering the blower.
> 
> I was thinking, if this worked, why not just wire in a switch between the blower and the ac power ?


Hmmm. Sounds interesting. What would happen when the A/C reaches the temp. and the compressor shuts off. Would you have to manually turn the switch off, and then on, to start the cooling cycle again?


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## 2Gringos

Good question. I'll ask him.


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## 2Gringos

and I did, and Paul says:

"disconected the Thermostat. 

We use the cabin fans for circulation and begin by closing off the cabins untill the main salon is comfortable and then open up the cabins one by one to keep it comfortable. At night we sleep under a blanket.

The compressor does not recycle."

I can think of times when a few bucks worth of gasoline would be a great trade for a night like that if the Honda doesn't care.


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## gershel

Sounds like it's worth a try. Thanks.
Marc


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## bb32

Here's another method from the Gemini 105 forum:

"I solved the problem.

How do you use a Honda EU2000i Generator to run a 16,500 btu Mermaid AC on econo-mode?

Answer: Run the AC saltwater cooling pump and AC air blower from an inverter and at the same time run the Battery Charger.

The generator has power to spare in running the compressor and battery charger.

My Mermaid AC freezes me out at 58 degrees in the cabin so I will still use the 5200 btu window AC after the Mermaid AC cools and dehumidifys the cabin. This takes about 20 minutes. 
I have photo's posted in the Quiet Place 766 Album.



paul cobb 766 Quiet Place"


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## negrini

bb32, it sounds very unlikely to happen as the power need will just increase with additional charger-batt-inverter lose, unless you take more from batts than you replace it. I run my Vector Turbo 12,000btu from my 2000eu for one year now, and I'm ready to dispose it on a garbage. The Honda is really good charging batteries and running our freezer, but when we run the AC, it scream so loud I use it just when absolutely alone on anchorage, and unity siting on dingy at least 10' away. Charging batt plus freezer, runs 14 hours on a gallon, but AC last 3,5 hours on each tank. Since it gasp and sometimes goes dead, we set temperature the lowest possible as not to cycle on/of. I'm looking for a more powerful generator for my needs and now considering Onan, Kohler or NortherLights.


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## bb32

The Gemini catamaran has a propane refrigerator, so that load is not factored in. Might be too much for a Honda 2000 with both AC and 12V fridge going at once.
Running the circulator and fan off the inverter allows the Honda to absorb the compressor startup load without popping the breaker. Yes the inverter will reduce the efficiency somewhat, but it will be way more efficient than running two Hondas as some owners have done or going to a much larger and heavier
diesel genset ($10,000+?)
Others use the Yamaha 3500 but it is larger and bulkier to stow.


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## Architeuthis

Using an inverter to power the fan and other AC loads will likely work. As pointed out the Generator can handle the run load without problem. 

I've used this method at work but had the ability to limit charger current. I do not think it would work with my charger because it draws so much and I cannot easily limit the current. 

I would try this and just leave the charger off and run the batteries down, and charge them later, or get a small charger, maybe a 10amp and use that one. 

Or just remember to shut off the charger when the AC starts.


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## GaryHLucas

We install soft starts on all our pumps over 25 HP. They are solid state controllers that reduce voltage to the motor during start, then a very heavy set of tiny contactors close under no load, and the electronics then go off line. What I think is unique about the Dometic device is that it supplies full power to the air conditioner all the time, and probably drops the voltage for a short time when it senses the high starting inrush. A pretty clever idea.

Gary H. Lucas


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## negrini

Guys, its simple math. If Gen is capable to run pump, fan and compressor, just plug it directly as mostly AC unities can switch them on in phases to not overload the system at start-up. If not, using your inverter will drain the missing power from batt and these will deplet if you don't charge at same rate, without limit. Add more by using the inverter loss. I agree you can run it for a while then charge the used amps later, but you are simply taking the missing power form your batts; an idea used by Martervolt to create the power combi.


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## bb32

The even simpler math is I can't afford the price, weight and space required for a diesel generator or a Mastervolt Combi so this workaround is good enough for me.
This accomplishes exactly what the Combi does at 1/100 of the cost. 
I was well aware of the the Combi when I posted this and just as aware that I (and many others) can't have one.


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## gershel

GaryHLucas said:


> We install soft starts on all our pumps over 25 HP. They are solid state controllers that reduce voltage to the motor during start, then a very heavy set of tiny contactors close under no load, and the electronics then go off line. What I think is unique about the Dometic device is that it supplies full power to the air conditioner all the time, and probably drops the voltage for a short time when it senses the high starting inrush. A pretty clever idea.
> 
> Gary H. Lucas


A new thread to Honda Owners claims that a $15 hard start capacitor will do the same thing as a Dometic SmartStart device.
Is this true? If so, how is it done?
Marc


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## billangiep

RV Air Conditioner Hard Start Capacitor | ModMyRV


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## k1vsk

gershel said:


> A new thread to Honda Owners claims that a $15 hard start capacitor will do the same thing as a Dometic SmartStart device.
> Is this true? If so, how is it done?
> Marc


Because they are essentially the same thing and work the same way. The only significant distinction is the behavior one company displays in setting their price.


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## DometicMarine

*Understanding the Dometic SmartStart*

Hello from Dometic Marine - Makers of Cruisair and Marine Air Systems Brand Air Conditioning and Refrigeration Systems.

We've been monitoring this thread and decided to join the forum to lend some expertise and to help everyone out. We have reviewed the forum rules and regulations regarding commercial interests, and we hope that this post in no way offends or violates anything. All we want is for everyone to have the facts. The new SmartStart is a revolutionary new product that is unlike any other soft starter or hard start add-on in the industry. It is very important to understand how it differs so you can make the right choices for your individual situations.

*Important information about the dangers of Portable Gasoline Generators*
Before we begin, it is important to clearly state that Dometic does not condone the use of portable gasoline generators for any marine application since both the US Coast Guard and the ABYC strongly caution against it. Portable gasoline generators are not properly marinized and they present life-threatening risks and dangers, including carbon monoxide poisoning and risk of explosion since they are typically not ignition protected. For more information, please refer to the USCG bulletins on this topic available online at http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/pdf/recalls/bscscan68a.pdf and http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/pdf/recalls/BSC74.pdf. Also, please refer to the ABYC document TH-22 (http://www.abycinc.org/th-22.pdf) where they discuss the use of portable generators on boats.

*Test Setup and Equipment*
In order to provide you with the most accurate information, Dometic obtained a Honda EU2000i generator and a Supco SPP6E Super Boost for side-by-side testing with the new Dometic SmartStart. Both the Honda and Supco products are very good, and by no means was this study conducted in order to put down either one. This study is meant to help everyone better understand how the SmartStart is different and where and why it can solve the problems discussed in this thread where other products cannot.

The current surge caused when an air conditioner compressor starts up is very short in duration, typically 150-300 milliseconds. Hand-held clamp-on current meters typically cannot measure this surge accurately because they typically display an averaged reading about once per second. As a result, the reading obtained with a clamp-on meter is always much lower than what has actually occurred. For our SmartStart development which started over one year ago, we at Dometic developed a custom and very specialized piece of test equipment to accurately capture and measure the start surge accurately. This specialized equipment along with an oscilloscope was to carry out the following study. Below is a photo of the test setup which conducted outdoors so we could run the Honda generator. We used a Cruisair model STQ16-R410A Turbo self-contained 16,000 BTU air conditioner for most of the testing.









*Outdoor Test Lab Setup*​
*Technical Differences between the Dometic SmartStart and the Supco SPP6E (Class E Super Boost) *
The Supco SPP6E Super Boost device consists of a 88-106MFD start capacitor connected in series with an electronically-controlled, solid-state potential relay. Using voltage sensing, it connects the start capacitor in parallel to the air conditioners run capacitor during the start up. As the voltage across the run capacitor (Run winding to Start winding) increases during the start, the device switches out the start capacitor at a preset level or after a timeout period expires. This sequence partially mimics the behavior of a full hard-start kit (start cap with a mechanical start relay) but not exactly. A true potential start relay has its coil connected across the compressor Common and the Start winding. The voltage behavior between these two compressor terminals is a little more predicable during a start-up. As a result, a true start relay can accomplish a more reliable disengagement of the start capacitor. Nevertheless, the Supco Super Boost does provide a good portion of the benefit of a true hard-start kit and reduced cost. Based on our measurements (shown below), the Super Boost provided a startup current surge reduction of about 20-25%.

The new Dometic SmartStart is completely different. The SmartStart uses a microprocessor to provide real-time control of the applied voltage and current to the Start winding and Run winding independently. The voltage applied to the start winding is also shifted in phase by an internal start capacitor. The application of voltage is so precise that each half alternation of the applied AC power is individually handled by the microprocessor. Then, using back EMF detection, the SmartStart determines when the motor's rotor actually begins to rotate. The SmartStart then accelerates the rotor until it has achieved full speed. Then, at a very precise moment when the current waveform passes through zero, the SmartStart seamlessly bypasses its internal control devices with relays to connect the Run winding directly with L2 and disconnecting from the Start winding.

The SmartStart's intelligence then even goes beyond this. Using the information it gathers from each start, it actually "learns" from what happened during one startup to determine what to use on its next startup. So, immediately after installing and using it on for the very first time, the SmartStart may take up to 10 startups for it to optimize itself to the absolute lowest possible starting current. After that, it continues to fine tune its startup behavior from start to start, up or down, depending on age of the compressor, environmental conditions, and voltage.

The result of this microprocessor-controlled automation and recursive learning is the absolutely lowest possible startup current required for each individual compressor and SmartStart combination. For all models of the SmartStart, the average start-up current reduction achieved is 65%.

*Test Results*
Two sets of tests were run: One on utility power and one on generator power. The Honda EU2000i has an "ECO" switch that allows for economy mode operation. This economy mode of course results in the generator running at a lower throttle setting to save fuel. However, there is a trade-off. When ECO mode is turned ON, the generator cannot respond quite as quickly to rapid changes in load current. Under certain test conditions, the compressor start surge on generator power caused the generator's output voltage to drop drastically and to become erratic when the compressor start faltered, and also caused the generator's maximum output current to be clamped. So, in order to accurately quantify what each hardware configuration would do, accurate start current data was captured using utility power. Later in the generator tests, instantaneous voltage fluctuation was also measured. In the end, both current surge and voltage drop do matter since voltage drop can dramatically and sometimes detrimentally affect other equipment that may be operating on the same generator.








*Analysis*
The Honda EU2000i is quite a potent little device. Regardless of the start component configuration, it was able to start the 16000 BTU system reliably when the ECO mode was turned off. When the ECO mode was turned on, however, the generator had trouble with the standard configuration and with the Supco SPP6E installed. The Supco Super Boost did help, but the resulting voltage drop to around 67V (46%) was problematic in that it did sometimes reset the digital controls. Other equipment running off the same generator would have also been affected.

The SmartStart made a dramatic difference. With the ECO switch turned on, the generator was able to tolerate the 18 amp start surge with only about a 20% drop in voltage. With the ECO switch turned off, the generator didn't even flinch (i.e. no measurable voltage drop).

*Summary*
As was cited elsewhere in this thread, the Honda EU2000i can support a 16,000 BTU air conditioner without any added hardware. But as our testing showed, this would only work if the ECO mode was turned off. Adding the Supco SPP6E provides a marginal improvement, but for our specific test with the 16000 BTU system, it could not guarantee a reliable start-up if the generator was operating in ECO mode. Beyond this, if other equipment is already loading the generator (e.g. sea water pump), that will further reduce the available amperage for the compressor start-up. Adding the Dometic SmartStart provides a dramatic improvement, provides a reliable start under almost all conditions, and will allow the generator to be run in ECO mode, which will certainly reduce fuel consumption.

Dometic is very happy to contribute to this forum; however, we cannot guarantee that someone will always have the opportunity to monitor it at all times. We will do our best to return to this thread in the coming days to answer any follow-up questions. In the future, others from Dometic may use this user ID to answer other questions on this forum.

Thank you for your continued interest and support.

Thank you.
M. Giovanetti
Director of Technology
Dometic Marine Corporation


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## Cruisingdad

DometicMarine said:


> Hello from Dometic Marine - Makers of Cruisair and Marine Air Systems Brand Air Conditioning and Refrigeration Systems.
> 
> We've been monitoring this thread and decided to join the forum to lend some expertise and to help everyone out. We have reviewed the forum rules and regulations regarding commercial interests, and we hope that this post in no way offends or violates anything. All we want is for everyone to have the facts. The new SmartStart is a revolutionary new product that is unlike any other soft starter or hard start add-on in the industry. It is very important to understand how it differs so you can make the right choices for your individual situations.
> 
> *Important information about the dangers of Portable Gasoline Generators*
> Before we begin, it is important to clearly state that Dometic does not condone the use of portable gasoline generators for any marine application since both the US Coast Guard and the ABYC strongly caution against it. Portable gasoline generators are not properly marinized and they present life-threatening risks and dangers, including carbon monoxide poisoning and risk of explosion since they are typically not ignition protected. For more information, please refer to the USCG bulletins on this topic available online at http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/pdf/recalls/bscscan68a.pdf and http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/pdf/recalls/BSC74.pdf. Also, please refer to the ABYC document TH-22 (http://www.abycinc.org/th-22.pdf) where they discuss the use of portable generators on boats.
> 
> *Test Setup and Equipment*
> In order to provide you with the most accurate information, Dometic obtained a Honda EU2000i generator and a Supco SPP6E Super Boost for side-by-side testing with the new Dometic SmartStart. Both the Honda and Supco products are very good, and by no means was this study conducted in order to put down either one. This study is meant to help everyone better understand how the SmartStart is different and where and why it can solve the problems discussed in this thread where other products cannot.
> 
> The current surge caused when an air conditioner compressor starts up is very short in duration, typically 150-300 milliseconds. Hand-held clamp-on current meters typically cannot measure this surge accurately because they typically display an averaged reading about once per second. As a result, the reading obtained with a clamp-on meter is always much lower than what has actually occurred. For our SmartStart development which started over one year ago, we at Dometic developed a custom and very specialized piece of test equipment to accurately capture and measure the start surge accurately. This specialized equipment along with an oscilloscope was to carry out the following study. Below is a photo of the test setup which conducted outdoors so we could run the Honda generator. We used a Cruisair model STQ16-R410A Turbo self-contained 16,000 BTU air conditioner for most of the testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Outdoor Test Lab Setup*​
> *Technical Differences between the Dometic SmartStart and the Supco SPP6E (Class E Super Boost) *
> The Supco SPP6E Super Boost device consists of a 88-106MFD start capacitor connected in series with an electronically-controlled, solid-state potential relay. Using voltage sensing, it connects the start capacitor in parallel to the air conditioners run capacitor during the start up. As the voltage across the run capacitor (Run winding to Start winding) increases during the start, the device switches out the start capacitor at a preset level or after a timeout period expires. This sequence partially mimics the behavior of a full hard-start kit (start cap with a mechanical start relay) but not exactly. A true potential start relay has its coil connected across the compressor Common and the Start winding. The voltage behavior between these two compressor terminals is a little more predicable during a start-up. As a result, a true start relay can accomplish a more reliable disengagement of the start capacitor. Nevertheless, the Supco Super Boost does provide a good portion of the benefit of a true hard-start kit and reduced cost. Based on our measurements (shown below), the Super Boost provided a startup current surge reduction of about 20-25%.
> 
> The new Dometic SmartStart is completely different. The SmartStart uses a microprocessor to provide real-time control of the applied voltage and current to the Start winding and Run winding independently. The voltage applied to the start winding is also shifted in phase by an internal start capacitor. The application of voltage is so precise that each half alternation of the applied AC power is individually handled by the microprocessor. Then, using back EMF detection, the SmartStart determines when the motor's rotor actually begins to rotate. The SmartStart then accelerates the rotor until it has achieved full speed. Then, at a very precise moment when the current waveform passes through zero, the SmartStart seamlessly bypasses its internal control devices with relays to connect the Run winding directly with L2 and disconnecting from the Start winding.
> 
> The SmartStart's intelligence then even goes beyond this. Using the information it gathers from each start, it actually "learns" from what happened during one startup to determine what to use on its next startup. So, immediately after installing and using it on for the very first time, the SmartStart may take up to 10 startups for it to optimize itself to the absolute lowest possible starting current. After that, it continues to fine tune its startup behavior from start to start, up or down, depending on age of the compressor, environmental conditions, and voltage.
> 
> The result of this microprocessor-controlled automation and recursive learning is the absolutely lowest possible startup current required for each individual compressor and SmartStart combination. For all models of the SmartStart, the average start-up current reduction achieved is 65%.
> 
> *Test Results*
> Two sets of tests were run: One on utility power and one on generator power. The Honda EU2000i has an "ECO" switch that allows for economy mode operation. This economy mode of course results in the generator running at a lower throttle setting to save fuel. However, there is a trade-off. When ECO mode is turned ON, the generator cannot respond quite as quickly to rapid changes in load current. Under certain test conditions, the compressor start surge on generator power caused the generator's output voltage to drop drastically and to become erratic when the compressor start faltered, and also caused the generator's maximum output current to be clamped. So, in order to accurately quantify what each hardware configuration would do, accurate start current data was captured using utility power. Later in the generator tests, instantaneous voltage fluctuation was also measured. In the end, both current surge and voltage drop do matter since voltage drop can dramatically and sometimes detrimentally affect other equipment that may be operating on the same generator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Analysis*
> The Honda EU2000i is quite a potent little device. Regardless of the start component configuration, it was able to start the 16000 BTU system reliably when the ECO mode was turned off. When the ECO mode was turned on, however, the generator had trouble with the standard configuration and with the Supco SPP6E installed. The Supco Super Boost did help, but the resulting voltage drop to around 67V (46%) was problematic in that it did sometimes reset the digital controls. Other equipment running off the same generator would have also been affected.
> 
> The SmartStart made a dramatic difference. With the ECO switch turned on, the generator was able to tolerate the 18 amp start surge with only about a 20% drop in voltage. With the ECO switch turned off, the generator didn't even flinch (i.e. no measurable voltage drop).
> 
> *Summary*
> As was cited elsewhere in this thread, the Honda EU2000i can support a 16,000 BTU air conditioner without any added hardware. But as our testing showed, this would only work if the ECO mode was turned off. Adding the Supco SPP6E provides a marginal improvement, but for our specific test with the 16000 BTU system, it could not guarantee a reliable start-up if the generator was operating in ECO mode. Beyond this, if other equipment is already loading the generator (e.g. sea water pump), that will further reduce the available amperage for the compressor start-up. Adding the Dometic SmartStart provides a dramatic improvement, provides a reliable start under almost all conditions, and will allow the generator to be run in ECO mode, which will certainly reduce fuel consumption.
> 
> Dometic is very happy to contribute to this forum; however, we cannot guarantee that someone will always have the opportunity to monitor it at all times. We will do our best to return to this thread in the coming days to answer any follow-up questions. In the future, others from Dometic may use this user ID to answer other questions on this forum.
> 
> Thank you for your continued interest and support.
> 
> Thank you.
> M. Giovanetti
> Director of Technology
> Dometic Marine Corporation


That was a nice writeup. As long as you do not "push" your products here, I have no problem with you participating.

Brian


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## sailingdog

Thanks for the information Dometic. I'd point out that most users of the small gasoline powered generators are at little risk for explosion, since most use them on deck or on the swim platform, not inside the cabin. The carbon monoxide is a risk, but that is true of all ICE equipment.


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## night0wl

Was the 16,000 BTU used in this test a Cruise-Air?


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## DometicMarine

night0wl said:


> Was the 16,000 BTU used in this test a Cruise-Air?


Yes. It was a new Cruisair Model STQ16-R410A Turbo unit. It's normal operating current specifications are shown in the data table in my original posting.

Thank you.

M. Giovanetti
Director of Technology
Dometic Marine Corporation


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## negrini

Giovanetti, it's indeed a nice write-up, and clever product idea. I'm a natural prospect for its use, and will be even more delighted if works on my EU2000i plus your VTD12K I have on my boat. It's supposedely even less power hungry than the STQ series.


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## gershel

Has anyone installed one of these units, and if so, how has it performed with the Honda 2000?
Marc


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## chris31519

The Smart-Start is not really new, similar systems have been around for RVs for a while, but it sounds like the dometic unit is a lot more sophisticated. 

Having said that I doubt you need one. I've heard of lots of people running 16,000 BTU a/c from the Honda 2000 and I run my 7,000 BTU unit from an EU1000i with no problem - no smartstart and in eco mode

Go for the Honda and get the Smart-Start if you need it (they do work).


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## ArmyChief

No one yet?
no REAL live feedback?


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## tdw

ArmyChief said:


> No one yet?
> no REAL live feedback?


Don't look at me, we don't even have an aircon at home....

but but but...doesn't all this machinery make an awful lot of noise ?


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## deniseO30

ck this out.. no gasoline required!  
"the things you find on Ebay "

Honda EU2000i Inverter Generator w/ Triple-Fuel System - eBay (item 390246345344 end time Oct-06-10 10:50:34 PDT)


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## galynd

Anything new with the smartstart? anyone install it yet? My honda EB3000c has a hard time starting my 16,000 unit. It usually takes a few tries. Is it for use only with Dometic air? I know, it's a little cold right now but it gets miserably hot during the summer in se texas.


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## JimMcGee

Giovanetti, can the SmartStart be used with AC units from other manufacturers?

Thanks for an informative write-up,
Jim


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## bfharris

*It Works!*

After reading lots of info on the SmartStart, but finding no real life consumer results, I was skeptical about spending the money on the device.

We had a Marine Airrr 16k BTU a/c and was not able to get the Honda to run it with eco on or off, so we used a 9,000 btu portable unit while on the hook in 100 degree temps. The Honda would run the portable unit, but only with eco off.

I tried the Supco device on the boat unit and measured a 5 amp reduction in start surge, but that was not enough to get the Honda to start the a/c.

We replaced our boat unit with a Mermaid 16,5000 btu unit and took the plunge purchasing a SmartStart, which I am here to tell you was the best investment I've probably ever made for my boat. The SmartStart reliably starts my a/c every single try with ECO on!! It is amazing!

My dad now has a SmartStart on order to repeat my success.

Here's a blog post on the subject if anyone wants to read.

New Temps in the Air; cabin air that is&#8230; « s/v Monomoy's blog


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## galynd

*dometic smartstart*

any new info on the smartstart? havent heard any new information lately. I sent email to dometic to ask if it works with ocean breeze ac's but no reply. anyone know? how could I get wiring schematic?


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## DometicMarine

galynd said:


> any new info on the smartstart? havent heard any new information lately. I sent email to dometic to ask if it works with ocean breeze ac's but no reply. anyone know? how could I get wiring schematic?





JimMcGee said:


> Giovanetti, can the SmartStart be used with AC units from other manufacturers


_(Please accept our apologies for not responding until now. We apparently missed the e-mail alert for this thread back in February.)_​
The SmartStart will work with A/Cs from other manufacturers. There are some exceptions, however, even with some Dometic Marine equipment from before 2000 (older Cruisair and Marine Air Systems units).

First, you must remember to choose the right SmartStart model. There are 3 different ones, depending on the voltage of your compressor and its BTU capacity.

Second, the SmartStart will work with pretty much any rotary or scroll compressor that is a permanent split capacitor motor (i.e. has a run cap).

Third, SmartStarts work with most reciprocating compressors, but there are some older models of these compressors (pre-2000) on which the SmartStart will not work optimally. It has to do with how the compressor motor windings were designed and the target start capacitor for these motors. Many of these older compressors require start capacitors that are much smaller than the run capacitors. Modern compressors require start capacitor values that are closer to and often exceed the size of the run capacitors. SmartStarts were designed to work with the present-day compressors, as best as could be done, given the thousands of compressor models that are out there.

So, whether or not a SmartStart will work on your non-Dometic/Cruisair/Marine Air A/C system will be a function your system's compressor model.

If you have a question, post your system's compressor manufacturer and model # here or send me a private message, and I can research it for you. (Note, the compressor manufacturer and its model # should be visible on a label on the side of the actual compressor, providing that the A/C system manufacturer didn't paint over it; the manufacturer of the entire A/C system and its model # are not required.) Admittedly, there are some wiring modifications that can be done to resolve the start-to-run capacitor size ratio issue that some older reciprocating compressors have. I can advise on those depending on what you have. There are no guarantees that all compressors can be made to work with the SmartStart, however, so please be understanding of that for your particular case.

A basic wiring diagram is available on the second page of the SmartStart's spec sheet, available online at: http://dometic.com/cbcde79f-6594-4d01-b60c-2ab7e153c982.fodoc

Thank you for your continued interest and support.

Thank you.
M. Giovanetti
Director of Technology
Dometic Marine Corporation


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## galynd

Thank you for your quick reply. I will pm you or post the compressor model after I go to the boat this weekend. The unit is an Ocean Breeze, model OB16CH. 16,700 BTU, draws 11.25 amps, QU288 thermostat. I believe it is a 2007 model.


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## galynd

PM with compressor Mgf. and model # sent as requested. 
thx.


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## VIKINGBEAR

*It does NOT work*

Dometic
I have read your report which states that the Cruisair 16000 btu with Smart Start installed, will run on a Honda 2000 generator.
My new Cruisair 16000 btu (split unit) was installed on my 31' sailboat June 2010 and as the salesman/installer also said that if I installed a Smart Start I would be able to run the A/C on a 2000 Honda generator, I did install the Smart Start ($500).
I also then purchased a Honda 2000 ($1100) 
I have tried many times but have not been able to start the Cruisair. I have tried with the fan and water pump already running (pump on a different circuit) but to no avail. After reading your glowing report I tried again last week. Still unable to start the Cruisair, but blew the thermostat in the process. 
I wasted $ 1,600.-

If I want the Cruisair to operate when at anchor, it appears I must buy another Honda 2000 companion for another $1,100.- and run both generators. 
With two Honda's operating I would not have needed the Smart Start. 
You need to rewrite your report so other people do not make the same mistake I did. 
I am located in Key Largo.


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## bfharris

*I question the validity of VikingBear.*

I personally have installed the SmartStart on three different boats and my father has installed one on his. Three of the boats are running the Mermaid 16,500 BTU unit and one is running a CruiseAir 16,000. All four can run the air conditioner off of the Honda eu2000i with no problem. The Honda can't run anything else (battery chargers, etc) while the A/C is running, but it will run the A/C if that is the only load. If the Honda is cold, then Eco will have to be off in order for it to handle the startup, but once the Honda has warmed up, then it will cycle the air on and off with no problem on Eco.

This is my personal experience and I have no connection with any of the companies involved other than being a customer.

I question VikingBear, because he has one post and that is to complain about the setup. He also mentions he paid $500 for the SmartStart, which means he didn't do a bit of research, because it can easily be found for $350. He also said he paid $1,100 for the Honda, which is also nuts, because it can easily be found shipped to your door for under $900.

If VikingBear truly did install the SmartStart and hasn't had success, then I believe the wiring should be double checked to make sure the SmartStart was properly installed in order for it to do its job. There are only four wires on the SmartStart, but it is still possible to have incorrectly wired it.

I'm not attempting to get into any shouting match and what not. I simply wanted to respond with my personal opinion, which is not to be construed as advice and can be taken in any fashion the reader wishes.


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## VIKINGBEAR

*It does NOT work*

bfharris.
Not sure why you question my VALIDITY?
That one can possibly now buy a Smart Start for $350.- and a Honda for less than $900 is not of interest at this stage. 
I paid - in June last year- $ 500.- for the Smart Start. 
The Honda was on sale at Northern Tool for $999.- With sales tax that would be about $ 1,070.- which is pretty darn close to $1,100.-
Please do not question my validity.
My set up does not work, as I described earlier. If it did I would not have posted.
I have also contacted Dometic directly. Maybe they can explain why it does not work and post it in this forum for other people as well. 
I am not complaing about the Cruiseair A/C, it runs fine on shorepower, but at the report from Dometic which indicates that if you install a Smart Start you can run the A/C off a Honda 2000 if you have the right type of compressor.
The Honda 2000 watts (16.7 A) of Honda Inverter 120V AC Power 
In the test run By Dometic and mposted in this forum, the start ur surge on the 16000 btu Cruisair using Smart Start was reduced from 57 to 18 A. Impressive result but -if I understand this right - still more than the Honda can deliver. Wish I had looked into this more earlier.
Validity, puh!
Happy Thyanksgiving to all.


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## Mabruteam

*Smart start Dometic*

Yes the smart start is doing a good job not only on lowering the start surge but also saving the compressor and the generator windings. We already installed close to 40 units, our webasto FCF unit 16000 BTu is now able to run on a 15A outlet... Bat charger on and 3 indelB 12V portable refrigerators!!! Available on ebay for just $350
We did several chillers, a Lagoon sail 38 with 4 units on a 6kw kohler (16k 9k and two 5k), also a 2950 proline with a 5k btu on a 1000 honda eu gen set, this is good for small and large boats, i recommend this product.


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## Sailinstuff

Please email me!!!!!

I want to know where to get an eu2000i delivered to my door in one of the 48 contiguous states for less than $900!!!!!! I'm in the market but I haven't found that price!

I'm interested in this thread for both boat and rv use. I already own one eu200i. If I buy another (which is not too awfully far above the cost of the dometic appliance) I have a backup and a very flexible setup. I'd like to buy the dometic product but I really don't see how people are buying it when they can spend a little more and get the whole 2nd generator.

Anyway, bfharris please email to me the vendor who sells the eu2000i delivered for less than $900. I want that deal. My email is my name here at yahoo. (Of course with a dotcom.) And thanks!!!


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## Mabruteam

*Honda generaor eu 2000*

We have them here in Miami florida available at northerntools.com
Honda EU2000IAN1 Companion | Honda | Northern Tool + Equipment


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## Sailinstuff

I'm a pretty good shopper. I've already checked Northern Tool. But I followed up on that anyway and called them again. EU2000i delivered to my door costs $1123 as per Northern Tool this morning.  That's a far cry from "less than $900". *And* it is right in line with what Vikingbear said he paid. *And* Vikingbear got his whole setup installed so there must be some cost/value with that.

I say again - I want that deal! Somebody please tell me where I can get an eu2000i delivered to my door for less than $900!

*And* I will add that after thinking about it, Marbruteam, you said you installed a dometic thing on a boat with an eu1000i. But if you were taking care of your customer, why didn't you recommend them buying an eu2000i instead of their 1000? If they were buying new, they could have bought a 2000 (and paid the difference) for less than the cost of the dometic thing and had a better generator and a simpler system! If they already had the 1000 they could ebay it and buy a 2000 and have a *new* and better generator for the same money they spent on the dometic thing.

That's *if* the dometic thing works.

I don't think you're steering your customers right.

And if they want a bigger gennie, sized just right, with a twist lock 3-prong outlet (to match a shore cord) then google a Champion 4000/3500. It's reputed to be a Honda knockoff. It's quiet. (I just happened to hear one running on an rv in a parking lot just 2 days ago. There is not an appreciable difference between it and an honda 2000.) Cabella's has them on sale for $309 *including shipping*. My issue with it is that I don't want a 100 pound gennie. I want portable. Two 2000's fit that bill. I thought about buying a Champion for the rv. But the same question comes to my mind that I posed before: Why don't I just spend a little more and get another 2000 and have a honda, have a backup generator, and have the ultimate in flexibility and portability? I have to choose to buy another honda. It makes sense.

And that's the same issue with the dometic appliance. It needs to cost about $100. Maybe $150. If it's $350, then it just makes sense to just spend a little more and get a second eu2000i. Did you point that out to your customers? Did you point out that the dometic appliance is not portable? That it "learns" the system where it is installed? So they can't take it to another boat or to an rv? Did you point out that if their genny goes down, they're just stuck, but if they have a backup genny they're still in business?

Somebody please tell me where I can get an eu200i delivered to my door for less than $900. I want to buy that deal.


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## Sailinstuff

And dometic, if you're reading this, cut your price to $125 and sell a buncha units. You'll make more money. *Plus* - read above. Several people have questioned the pricing. Do yourself a favor. Instead of trying to justify and over sell something your constituency feels is over priced, get your pricing in line with your market's expectations and create an appreciative customer base. You will make more money in the long run!!!!!


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## Sailinstuff

PPS to dometic: Cut it to $125 and I'll probably buy one for the boat and one for the rv. Keep the pricing as is and I won't buy it at all. I'll buy a 2nd eu2000i. Your choice. Let me know before I buy my second genny 'cause at that point, with the honda service record, I likely won't need your product for many, many years.


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## Sailinstuff

PPPS: Even at a generator cost of $1100 it makes sense. If the genny cost is less than 900 (I still haven't seen that deal) it's a no-brainer.


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## Sailinstuff

PPPPS: An appliance to make a genny work (the dometic thing) that costs more than a genny that does the job (the Champion) is just clearly out of line on pricing. It's just obvious.


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## night0wl

Bought mine from wisesales and it was ~$900 delivered. 

Also look at hard start capacitors. Save some bucks vs buying something prepackaged


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## Sailinstuff

Thanks! Wise is where I bought the one I have. I was saving them for last to check. I called and they say $899 delivered which is I think 100 less than I paid for my first one. I'll probably order one from them in a week or two. (After I'm done looking for that *less than* $900 unicorn.)


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## rwy36

Based on their Web site (which requires registration to see the pricing), a Honda Eu2000i can be had from Mayberry's for $899 with free shipping. For another $100 more, there is a model of the Eu2000i with a 30A twist-lock connector also. Visit http://www.mayberrys.com for the details (no affiliation, just passing along the local knowledge).

Good luck,

Bill


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## robertsapp

Mayberrys has the EU2000i for $899 and the companion unit for $999. They're advertising free shipping for orders over $199. You might check them out at www.mayberrys.com.


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## ov10mech

Just curious why the SPP6E was chosen for the test vs. SPP6. I called Supco Tech Support about this and they mentioned they would not recommend the E model in a generator config .. Something about keeping the start charge in the cap too long or something. Thoughts?


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## deniseO30

The supco hard start kits heat up. PTC I *think* they are called (getting old and forgetful here) lol A traditional relay and start cap would work but really is not necessary.

Many if not all compressors in window type units use rotary compressors. Marine and central may use a scroll type compressors. All are very very low amperage starting.

Remember name plate rating are not actual it's a guide. To get real amperage draw you need a clamp on type meter. You will be surprised how little amps they draw even though the name plate suggests much more.

Hard-Start Devices: Insurance For The Compressor


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## spcharby

gershel said:


> *Honda eu2000i and Air Conditioning*
> 
> Just heard about a new product from Dometic. It's called a SmartStart controller. It reduces the amount of amps needed to start an air conditioner by 65%. I spoke to a tech from Dometic, who seemed to think, that a Honda 2000 could run a 16,000 btu Cruisair a/c. The cost for this unit is about $360. Sounds interesting. Sure would keep my wife "happy". Has anyone heard anything about this. It's only been available a few months.
> Marc


I, just this week, finished a year long saga with the Honda 2000 and a 16K BTU air conditioner. This is what I learned:


The Smart Start is specifically designed to work with a Dometic AC unit; however, it works perfectly well with non Dometic units.
The Smart Start will allow a Honda 2000 to power only certain Dometic 16K AC units - they must have the 410 coolant.
I installed a Smart Start on a non Dometic unit and managed to get the ramp up amperage down to 29 amps. The Honda 2000 just couldn't do it consistently. Sometimes it could, mostly it couldn't.
I installed a Victron Energy Multiplus inverter charger that has a power assist mode and all works well now. This was not an inexpensive install; however, it greatly upgrades my electrical system and it needed it anyway. The alternative was a genset and that would have been even more expensive and, I would have still had to upgrade the electrics.

Do your home work with the Smart Start- Dometic is very specific on which AC units will be able to accept it and be powered by a Honda 2000.

Good Luck.


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## last mango

odd ball question = where is everyone storing these when underway - lazarettes, strapped to the decks/ One of our big problems to figure out
thanks


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## trantor12020

Under nav table.


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## negrini

Lazarette. Be careful with the hot exhaust.


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## travlin-easy

I talked with the manufacturer of my 14,500 BTU AC unit and they said that the Honda 2000i would run the unit with no problems, plus it could handle the starting surge and never blink.

Gary


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## gershel

Gary, what manuf. is that? Did it work with the Honda 2000?
Marc


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## ealterman

Hate to bring up an old topic - but in a new way.

I've had conflicting comments on running a Dometic 6Kbtu A/C unit with the Smart Start kit via a Honda EU1000i (not the EU2000i). The Smart Start kit is supposed to reduce the max start up draw and, thus allow the EU1000i to actually run the unit.

Does anyone have any experience (and recommendations) with this combination of equipment?

Thanks


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## capta

I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned, but all marine A/C units I am familiar with use something like a March water circulation pump which also uses some power (1/8 to 1/2 hp pump). The rated 16 amps on a 16,000 btu marine A.C unit does not include this pump.
I believe these units are rated to operate on 115 v ac, as is the pump, so loading the 2kw gene to near capacity may reduce voltage, raising the amperage. 
It seems that if a 2kw gene is in fact running a 16 amp unit, plus the pump, it is doing so by the skin of it's teeth. Why not step up to 2.5 kw or larger and ease the burden?


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## georgemci102a2

I dont know about all this fancy talk(smart start?)just stop by the hvac parts supplier and tell them,give me one of them there hard start kits.....About 70 bucks,hook it up to the start cap and your done.also its nice to keep one around if and when a compressor starts to get old and (is hard to start) and pulls to many amps....George.


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## aloof

gershel said:


> Sure would keep my wife "happy"


Huh? I don't get it. Skip the generator, the A/C, and get a happy girl that likes it hot and sweaty. Highly recommended. That's what I did. Works great. No problem getting anything started. Heh.


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## dwoodford

M Giovanetti I have read your post about the soft start you offer, first of all thank you for taking the time to provide the info to us. I understand that it may not be as useful in a pre 2000 model but I thought I would get your feed back anyway. The plate on my compressor reads Pn c141a001 Ser # cj03u487598. I run a Honda eu2000i and a Honda eu2000 companion in parallel but have to run the eco in the off position to be able to start the compressor. I would at least like to be able to run the gens with the eco in the on position will your soft start be able to help achieve this? Thank you Doug


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## travlin-easy

I talked with the tech rep at Mermaid about my AC unit, which is a 14,000 BTU unit, and he said the 2000i would run it just fine. Now sure if it will handle the start load of a 16,000 BTU unit, though.

That said, I was walking through Harbor Freight Tools a couple weeks ago, and they had a generator that looked a lot like the 2000i, but it was 8 pounds heavier, 3 db louder, but put out 2,500-watts peak, 2,200 running, has all the bells and whistles that the 2000i had and was less than half the price. Inverter Generator - 4.7HP, 2500W Inverter Generator

Something to consider,

Gary


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## dwoodford

travlineasy said:


> I talked with the tech rep at Mermaid about my AC unit, which is a 14,000 BTU unit, and he said the 2000i would run it just fine. Now sure if it will handle the start load of a 16,000 BTU unit, though.
> 
> That said, I was walking through Harbor Freight Tools a couple weeks ago, and they had a generator that looked a lot like the 2000i, but it was 8 pounds heavier, 3 db louder, but put out 2,500-watts peak, 2,200 running, has all the bells and whistles that the 2000i had and was less than half the price. Inverter Generator - 4.7HP, 2500W Inverter Generator
> 
> Something to consider,
> I just want to pass on some info I have learned about the off brand generators. 1-They claim to have a higher output then what there higher priced competitors do it turns out they fudge the numbers in their favor and in cases have less output. 2 If you ever have to have one worked on or get parts for it in some cases good luck.
> After buying 3 of the better off brands that claim to have the output needed to do the job and then not being able to do so I went to the Hondas hands down so far the best I've tried.


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## miatapaul

travlineasy said:


> I talked with the tech rep at Mermaid about my AC unit, which is a 14,000 BTU unit, and he said the 2000i would run it just fine. Now sure if it will handle the start load of a 16,000 BTU unit, though.
> 
> That said, I was walking through Harbor Freight Tools a couple weeks ago, and they had a generator that looked a lot like the 2000i, but it was 8 pounds heavier, 3 db louder, but put out 2,500-watts peak, 2,200 running, has all the bells and whistles that the 2000i had and was less than half the price. Inverter Generator - 4.7HP, 2500W Inverter Generator
> 
> Something to consider,
> 
> Gary


You actually saw one? I asked the manager at my local store and he kind of laughed and said they have had a few on there standing order since released but have yet to see one. He suggested ordering it online but suggested I not expect delivery any time soon, and that I might not ever see one. Perhaps they have actually been able to find someone to supply them.


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## travlin-easy

gershel said:


> Gary, what manuf. is that? Did it work with the Honda 2000?
> Marc


It's a Mermaid, but I'll have to go to the boat to get the model number for you. And, yes, it did work, but when it first came on it was struggling a bit, which had me worried. Fortunately, I only borrowed the Honda 2000i from a friend and gave it back to him the following day, so no out of pocket money there. My son is using the one from Harbor Freight Tools and his AC unit is 16,000 BTU - no problems at all.

Gary


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## Maine Sail

gershel said:


> *Honda eu2000i and Air Conditioning*
> 
> Just heard about a new product from Dometic. It's called a SmartStart controller. It reduces the amount of amps needed to start an air conditioner by 65%. I spoke to a tech from Dometic, who seemed to think, that a Honda 2000 could run a 16,000 btu Cruisair a/c. The cost for this unit is about $360. Sounds interesting. Sure would keep my wife "happy". Has anyone heard anything about this. It's only been available a few months.
> Marc


FWIW I have measured the start up / in-rush load of a Cruise Air 16k at 59.2A and the running current at 116V at 13.7A (Fluke 376)..... A Honda 2K is likely going to tap out on this. It may run for a short time but I know ours will tap out at 12.2A continuous and Honda USA says this is "Well within spec".


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## Don L

Maine Sail said:


> FWIW I have measured the start up / in-rush load of a Cruise Air 16k at 59.2A and the running current at 116V at 13.7A (Fluke 376)..... A Honda 2K is likely going to tap out on this. It may run for a short time but I know ours will tap out at 12.2A continuous and Honda USA says this is "Well within spec".


And yet many many many people have posted here and on that "other" site than they run their 16k unit just fine on the Honda.


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## Maine Sail

Don0190 said:


> And yet many many many people have posted here and on that "other" site than they run their 16k unit just fine on the Honda.


My customers EU2000 was not capable of running his Cruise Air 16K BTU for more than a few minutes and this was after a soft start cap had been installed. In his case the total draw of the isolated AC only circuit could not be handled by his EU2000 for long periods. I have no doubt 16K BTU AC's can run on an EU2000, I have some that can, and based on Cruise Air specs it should have, but some may not.

My own EU2000 is only capable of about 12.2A continuous in 80Fand will not meet Honda's specs. This owner had read on the Internet that an EU2000 could run his AC and in his case it could not. All my Fluke did is to confirm why it could not.


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## Melrna

My Honda 2000 runs my Pompanette 16000 BTU AC just fine. Will run about 3 hours per internal tank. Eco switch must be off. Not a real big fan of Dometic products. Bad customer service, bad AC units and won't' honor their warranty. Catalina manufacturing won't have anything do with any Dometic products either.


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## travlin-easy

I just checked out the make and model of my AC/heat pump. It's a Mermaid 12CHP-L, which is 12,000 BTU cooling, 14,000 BTU heating. Because it's an older model, the surge current when it starts is quite high, especially on the heat mode. I think that's why the Honda 2000i was struggling a bit. In the heat mode, the heat coils come on first, then the compressor kicks in, which is a real kick to the current draw. 

Today, I checked the cooling time when the cabin temperature was 82 degrees inside. On average it took about 4 minutes per degree to cool the cabin to 70 degrees. I can live with that.

All the best,

Gary


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## alanr77

I've been looking around at gen set combos along with marine ac and other A/C appliances. After reading this thread, the first thing that comes to mind is reserve capacity. When you set up a system, is it wise to run that system up to 90-95% of it's rated capacity continuously and expect flawless service over time? Question not a statement. My "this might not be the best idea indicator" goes off in my head when I see this. I too am looking at 16000 to 18000 BTU systems. I can't seem to make the numbers work with the Honda 2000i and have a comfortable reserve capacity regarding output.


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## Minnewaska

Nothing beats an installed diesel genset, if you have the room for one.


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## Don L

Minnewaska said:


> Nothing beats an installed diesel genset, if you have the room for one.


and the $$$$$$$$


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## Minnewaska

Don0190 said:


> and the $$$$$$$$


That too, when compared to a Honda 2kw.

However, we are talking about marrying it up with a 16k air conditioner and surge controller, so the OP isn't trying to cruise on pennies either. Still, it's thousands more, for sure. Maybe a used genset to save a few boat bucks.

Since the reported purpose is to make his wife happy, there is an awful lot more to having an onboard generator that will help. Suddenly, all 110v appliances are fair game. Not to mention, it's safer to use the onboard diesel supply, rather than carrying supplemental gasoline and worrying out exhaust fumes from a portable running on deck. Quieter for your neighbors too.


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## travlin-easy

After more than a half century of being married, I'm thoroughly convinced that the only way I could make my wife happy aboard a boat is if I purchased her a small cruise ship.  She refuses to go on an over-nighter anymore, says she's too old and it's too hard for her to get around on the Morgan. i stopped asking her to go with me on day sails, too.

As for the diesel genset, they are very expensive, and if you have ever anchored downwind of one, the smell of diesel fumes makes me want to puke. Personally, I'm not at all in favor of diesel, but maybe that's because I've been spoiled for so many years with my A4s, both of which have never failed me. They're quiet, do not smell, and pretty economical to run.

Yesterday, I met up with my son and his fiance at Fairlee Creek, located in the Chesapeake's upper reaches. She had cooked a great tasting pot roast at home, refrigerated it and needed to heat it up. She used my microwave oven, a 750-watt appliance that is connected to my 4-T105 house battery system via a 1,500-Watt inverter. She heated three dishes separately, a total of 9 minutes. WOW! They came out piping hot, but it sure did suck down a lot of battery. I was amazed at how long it took to recharge them while motor sailing home yesterday evening.

The main reason I installed the inverter was for my wife's C-pap machine and the flat screen TV - the microwave oven was an afterthought. I wouldn't even consider using an inverter to run an AC unit, but it can be done. My solution for the AC was to construct a swamp cooler using a 72 mm computer fan and a cooler chest filled with ice. Works great, but a bit on the damp side at times. That 72 mm computer fan only draws .04 amps when running full blast and moving lots of air. Plus, it has four tiny, blue LED lights that serve as night lights in the cabin.










For those of you that take along TV dinners, which many of us do for convenience sake, I developed an easy, relatively fast way of preparing them without a microwave. Merely place about an inch of water in the bottom of either a frying pan or larger sauce pan, or better yet, a pressure cooker, remove the film, fire up the stove, place the dinner in the bottom of the pan, put on the lid and in 10 minutes or less you have a steaming hot TV dinner. I even made a TV dinner lifter from a length of brazing wire so you don't burn your hands in the process of removing dinner from the pot.










All the best,

Gary


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## Minnewaska

travlineasy said:


> After more than a half century of being married, I'm thoroughly convinced that the only way I could make my wife happy aboard a boat is if I purchased her a small cruise ship.


That's too bad, Gary. Was she really into it before? May or may not be a good comparison for the OP.



> As for the diesel genset, they are very expensive, and if you have ever anchored downwind of one, the smell of diesel fumes makes me want to puke. Personally, I'm not at all in favor of diesel, but maybe that's because I've been spoiled for so many years with my A4s, both of which have never failed me. They're quiet, do not smell, and pretty economical to run.


Most people are disgusted by the smell of diesel exhaust, although, I can't say I've ever notice it from a genset running on another boat in the anchorage. That's a new one to me. Noise complaints are more common. Ironically, the exhaust from a gasoline engine is entirely more toxic. In fact, the levels of carbon monoxide in diesel would be difficult to reach lethal concentrations, while we all know of that serious risk in gasoline exhaust.

Still, inboard gensets are pricey. In my case, I know there are some creature comforts that my wife would start drifting away from boating, if we gave back. Oddly enough, she would push back in the shoulder seasons, without heat, more than she does in summer air conditioning. Having hot water in 20 mins from the electric heater is pretty important, especially when at anchorage.


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## travlin-easy

She always enjoyed most of the 18 boats I've owned during our 52 year marriage, but since she retired 6 years ago, her level of physical activity went pretty much down to zero, thus her overall health has severely suffered. Most of the time I sail by myself, at least for the past two years, because she has a great deal of difficulty getting on and off the boat, and going down the 4-step ladder to the cabin. And, she equates living aboard to camping out in a tent, mainly because I don't have a genset on the boat to run the AC when it gets hot, or the heat pump when it gets cold.

The boat has all the comforts of home - AC/heat pump, swamp cooler AC, 2 burner gas stove, gas oven, refrigerator/freezer, hot and cold running water, big galley (I do all the cooking, though), big stainless galley sink, flat screen TV, head with shower (she says the head is too small), huge Vee berth, big quarter berth, dinette turns into queen size bed with air mattress and memory foam topper, lots and lots of storage, AM/FM/CD stereo system, AC power to 1,500-watts throughout the boat, big spacious cockpit with full cushions and full enclosure for when it's cold, and screened enclosure when it's buggy, 7-foot ceiling height throughout, great interior lighting, fans at three locations, AND, the boat sails like a dream, does not heel more than 7 degrees on 20 MPH wind while on a beam reach, handles well in a following sea, very dry in all sea conditions, doesn't rock all over the place at most anchorages and a very, very comfortable helm seat. Oh, and it's paid for - no payments other than slip rent, which is relatively low where I'm at - Just $1,600 a year. I told her that I would put in an electric lift for the cabin ladder, but she said I would be wasting my money. Not much more that I can do other than install a genset, but I don't think that will make any difference. Guess I'm on my own.

Yesterday, while motor sailing up Chesapeake Bay (the wind had nearly died), I was sitting in the helm seat, a frosty, cold Margaretta in my right hand, my feet propped up on the gunwale and watching the world go by, I said to myself, this, damn-it, is the way I want to spend the rest of my days. Therefore, when October 1st rolls around, I am going to fully retire. I've been working for 65 years, non stop, with only a 5-month pause when I was paralyzed from the waist down due to herniated disks in my lower spine. Since then, when I was faced with the prospect of never being able walk again, I decided to enjoy life to the fullest, doing a job I really enjoyed doing, and for the most part, that's exactly what I have done. Now, my entire spine is shot from peripheral neuropathy, which is the result of Lymne's Disease and a deficiency of B-12. My music career skyrocketed, I perform 5 to 7 days a week, but every day that I'm not working I'm on that old tub of a Morgan, headed somewhere over the horizon. As the Zack Brown song goes "Life is good today, life is good today."

All the best,

Gary


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## Merrydolphin

Thanks for the informative letter Dometc. As an HVAC tech. Yes 18A sounds great and should enable the honda 2000 and the A C unit to run more dependably and longer. 
And yes, I agree when common sense is applied. The Honda 2000 is quite safe. Yes you must allow for safe storage of gas and unit above decks. And exhaust gasses must be addressed. On my last boat, (I ran the unit on the aft deck of a center cockpit boat). I used a Honda 2000 every day for batteries and 110 cold plate fridge. Every day 1.5-2hrs for 8 years! with no problem. 
I recently purchased a tartan 37 and will seriously consider this combo. (Although I agree primary use for AC is in port. Amongst the few times I really wished for AC at anchor is when it's still, hot , humid, and the bugs are in FULL FORCE! Especially in areas with Zika, Dengue, and Chikungunya. When it was just Dengue ( which is bad enough) I was a lot more cavalier about mosquitos.


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## stans2000

*Re: Understanding the Dometic SmartStart*

DometicMarine

How do you test the compressor for the VTD6k-HV without the boat in the water? 2 weeks ago while anchored we were running the A/C off of our Honda eu2000i and everything seemed to be working fine, but the A/C wasn't cooling. Water was flowing through the system and the fan was running. There were no Fault codes.

Stan



DometicMarine said:


> Hello from Dometic Marine - Makers of Cruisair and Marine Air Systems Brand Air Conditioning and Refrigeration Systems.
> 
> We've been monitoring this thread and decided to join the forum to lend some expertise and to help everyone out. We have reviewed the forum rules and regulations regarding commercial interests, and we hope that this post in no way offends or violates anything. All we want is for everyone to have the facts. The new SmartStart is a revolutionary new product that is unlike any other soft starter or hard start add-on in the industry. It is very important to understand how it differs so you can make the right choices for your individual situations.
> 
> *Summary*
> As was cited elsewhere in this thread, the Honda EU2000i can support a 16,000 BTU air conditioner without any added hardware. But as our testing showed, this would only work if the ECO mode was turned off. Adding the Supco SPP6E provides a marginal improvement, but for our specific test with the 16000 BTU system, it could not guarantee a reliable start-up if the generator was operating in ECO mode. Beyond this, if other equipment is already loading the generator (e.g. sea water pump), that will further reduce the available amperage for the compressor start-up. Adding the Dometic SmartStart provides a dramatic improvement, provides a reliable start under almost all conditions, and will allow the generator to be run in ECO mode, which will certainly reduce fuel consumption.
> 
> Dometic is very happy to contribute to this forum; however, we cannot guarantee that someone will always have the opportunity to monitor it at all times. We will do our best to return to this thread in the coming days to answer any follow-up questions. In the future, others from Dometic may use this user ID to answer other questions on this forum.
> 
> Thank you for your continued interest and support.
> 
> Thank you.
> M. Giovanetti
> Director of Technology
> Dometic Marine Corporation


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## stans2000

We bought 2 Honda eu2000i in 2009 for $899 each w/ free shipping from Mayberry Sales and Service in Port Murray, NJ *Near Philadelphia, Scranton, Allentown, PA and New York, NY - Offering New & Used Generators, Power Equipment, Lawn Mowers, Water Pumps, Boats and More for Sale


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