# What happened to Chris & Cate?



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I haven't seen a post by them in the past couple months, just wondered if they've got their boat in the water and how their restoration project is coming. I tried sending them an email to their Comcast address, but it bounced back to me as undeliverable. 

Just wondering if anyone else has heard from them,

Gary


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

Nice timing Gary, just got some internet today after a moderately long spell without any. I posted in a thread here earlier, first post in awhile. Our old email at Comcast is over and out, I'll pm you a new one. Thanks for noticing and wondering about us! 

We're in the water, the boats done (well...), and here we are (for over a month now).

I haven't updated the blog but I should, it's been a real adjustment these last few weeks. I don't know where to even start, so all I will say is that we seem to have lost our sailing mojo. Coming down from doing the rebuild and adjusting to our lives not revolving around the refit is proving hard. For over a year our daily lives were nothing but boat refit 24/7, and now that that's gone we are kind of lost. Actually, we are totally lost. We currently have nothing to build and we don't know what to do it appears. Just "living" seems to be harder than we thought.

Being on the boat after all that we did, nothing looks the same anymore for some reason. The bay seems about as big as a bathtub, and the wonder of it all seems to have left us for the time being (hopefully for the time being anyway). To be honest, I (we're) trying to figure out what the problem is. Maybe we're just really good builders of stuff, rather than "livers of life" like we thought we were. Maybe it'll just pass and everything will be fine, I really don't know.

One nice thing are the daily fawning compliments we get on the boat. People go totally nuts over her, it's really something. We're right in the heart of downtown, so a lot of people see her which is cool. I'm really glad I strived for the perfection that I did on her finishes and fit, otherwise I'd have cut my ear off already. I can see the scrutiny from people as they examine her, and hear them comment when they congregate on the dock not knowing anyone is inside (usually when I'm trying to nap).

Oh, and we hate the composting head. Totally hate it. Everything else seems to be alright, except for filthy marina heads which we hate almost as much as the composting head. I can't wait to re install a head and illegally pump out overboard each and every time I go to the bathroom. What a joy _that'll_ be..

So yup, we're still around and we made it. Now what...


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Chris 

Can you give an assessment of the composting head? Strengths? Weaknesses? Opportunities? Threats?


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

jackdale said:


> Chris
> 
> Can you give an assessment of the composting head? Strengths? Weaknesses? Opportunities? Threats?


My opinion is that they are moderately unsanitary but probably doable on a medium to large boat with hot water on tap - gross and way too "up close" on a small boat with no hot water on tap.

The hot water is easy to live without, a composting head 1.5 feet from where you sleep and lay your head is .. bad. Keep in mind we are on a SMALL small boat, an A 30 isn't like a Catalina 30, it's _real_ personal and up close in here.

Example: I am sleeping in the V, and suppose the Admiral has to pee (or god forbid, pinch a coil) - well, she's _right there_, hi! Some things are just things you need to do more than three feet from another human. And the coffee filters... oh the coffee filters..

We have a small boat.

EDIT: I should note the difference in space that the Natures Head takes up as compared to her old traditional head. The N/H is tall, very tall and it makes a huge difference in our small head area. It takes up a lot of area and it's way high. It makes a difference. The old head enabled the bathroom area to be closed off and private when in use, the N/H does not allow this on our boat due to the logistics of the thing from the perspective of the V berth. It still closes off from the salon, just not the V.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Chris

Thanks for that.

I have never had to deal with one.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

No prob, see my edit. 

I think they might be ok to good on a bigger boat, a small boat not so much. I guess the truth about heads is nothing can compare to a house toilet. I have yet to encounter a marine head I find acceptable. You either hold it all in a gross smelly holding tank, or you try to ferment it in a composting head, or you pump overboard illegally for the least amount of fuss and hope you don't get caught.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

I like to good old-fashioned salt water head with a holding tank and options. Remember in Canada I can dump. I just pick my spots carefully. Offshore it is directly overboard.

I have had a couple of problems - worn out valve seat, blocked holding tank discharge, stuck Y valve. I do not like fresh water electric heads. I did use a Raritan ElectroSan system once, it was interesting.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Gary Chris has been around recently in fact .... hey .... look here he is right now ...


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Chris,
A properly set up holding tank does not smell but even so for mine a head that is not fully enclosed is not on my list of acceptable options and to be honest is one of the reasons we ended up going to +40'. The head is a goodly size, has separate shower and is at the other end of the boat from our cabin so even if it does pong up a bit its far enough away from sleeping quarters to be a problem. 

I do hope you can settle down and get your juices flowing again but it is very true that there is many a boat builder who on completion sells up and starts all over again. Maybe that is who you are but really if that is what gives you the buzz then why fight it ?


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Chris n who?!?!?!?! never eard of them! Maybe try one of them other forums!?!?!?!?!

Now to figure out whom fuzzy is trying to harass with his formidable writing wit!.........

Marty


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## Jgbrown (Mar 26, 2012)

chrisncate said:


> Nice timing Gary, just got some internet today after a moderately long spell without any. I posted in a thread here earlier, first post in awhile. Our old email at Comcast is over and out, I'll pm you a new one. Thanks for noticing and wondering about us!
> 
> We're in the water, the boats done (well...), and here we are (for over a month now).
> 
> ...


FWIW I spent a long time building up my motorbike, when I was done I got the same feeling about being on the road. Lasted until I got myself off the boring interstate, and back into trouble. . I almost turned home for Canada I was so bored. 6 months later I was in Panama, wishing I could keep going but out of money. That burnout after huge effort is totally normal.

Gotta put her through her paces somewhere challenging to bring back the excitement? I'm sure there's a corollary for married people, but I guess that's not sailnet postable. 

EDIT: I was really thinking about a composting head, but I have to say you've put me off a little bit. Bad enough already when someone's dropping the kids off at the pool next to my bed! Nevermind if there wasn't water there. 
She sure is a looker!


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

jackdale said:


> I like to good old-fashioned salt water head with a holding tank and options. Remember in Canada I can dump. I just pick my spots carefully. Offshore it is directly overboard.
> 
> I have had a couple of problems - worn out valve seat, blocked holding tank discharge, stuck Y valve. I do not like fresh water electric heads. I did use a Raritan ElectroSan system once, it was interesting.


I'm with you on the salt water head with the ornamental holding tank option. I have never used the electric heads myself, and I think right now I'm a salt water head kind of guy (with a wife who feels the same way).


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## a8clark (Apr 4, 2012)

Yeah really, sounds like you better find yourselves another project. Nothing wrong with being a "builder of stuff", it's your way of living life and that's great. Better than being a consummate consumer. 
Cheers,
Allen


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

tdw said:


> Chris,
> A properly set up holding tank does not smell but even so for mine a head that is not fully enclosed is not on my list of acceptable options and to be honest is one of the reasons we ended up going to +40'. The head is a goodly size, has separate shower and is at the other end of the boat from our cabin so even if it does pong up a bit its far enough away from sleeping quarters to be a problem.
> 
> I do hope you can settle down and get your juices flowing again but it is very true that there is many a boat builder who on completion sells up and starts all over again. Maybe that is who you are but really if that is what gives you the buzz then why fight it ?


I typed ten different responses so far and none were right, so let me just acknowledge your post.

Post acknowledged.

I'm all over the effing map right now.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

CNC,

Sorry to hear that you're temporarily out of mojo. I had something happen last summer that may be simillar. We went out sailing and instead of exploring far and wide in a tight schedule to new uncharted territory we decided to stay IN our local island group (the San Juans) and be much more lazy.

What happened is that we both got so bored we came home a week early from our much anticipated 5 week trip. We both found the inconveniences of being at anchor were magnified and the excitement and fun of previous trips was really lacking.

Honestly it bothered me so much I was afraid to even talk about it for a while. I was worried that I didn't like cruising any more. If that were true, than my big dream of sailing off for 5 years suddenly looked like it might be bust!

What we figured out once we both started talking about it is that what we were doing was too familiar and too easy. Just like pitching a tent in your back yard isn't as much fun as Yosemite. There was no challenge and no new stimuli. I'm even hardedned to seeing dolphins as they're common around here. The giant jellyfish of Canada though, now they're novel!

I think what you need is to get out of town! Sail somewhere you've never been and after that, sail to another place you've never been. The challenges of navigating and sailing in a new area, the excitements of discovering new places are what it's all about.

MedSailor

PS Sorry to hear that the Nature's head isn't working for you. We still love ours 3 years later. What's with the coffee filters? We just open the trap door and drop the steamer then shut the door again.

This link might be just the toilet set-up that you're looking for. More typical head with ornamental holding tank. On the other hand it might be tall like your Nature's head. If you do build your own set up I have 2 pieces of advice: 1. Use rigid PVC wherever possible. PVC to hose hosebarbs exist. 2. Buy the $10/ft odorsafe hose for the parts where you NEED hose. 1.5" white "sanitation hose" for $2/ft can permanently ruin a boat by smell.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/814355-post285.html


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

chrisncate said:


> I'm with you on the salt water head with the ornamental holding tank option. I have never used the electric heads myself, and I think right now I'm a salt water head kind of guy (with a wife who feels the same way).


The Womboat has saltwater electric head not fresh. Raven had a manual Lavac. Best manual head I've ever used but diameter of seat is a bit small.

Other than noise in the middle of the night (more inside the boat than out) I would be unimpressed going back to manual. You simply get used to the convenience I guess.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

An electric head will use a bit more battery but oh so convenient A token holding tank in the system if the guilt gets you. I can switch from fresh to salt if needs to ,but really prefer fresh for clean and low odor. Takes a lot more refilling tho. Still better than a bucket in the cockpit. You must be aware that projects are exponential. ( third power} Start a boat twice as big and enjoy eight times the refit. Good luck.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> CNC,
> 
> Sorry to hear that you're temporarily out of mojo. I had something happen last summer that may be simillar. We went out sailing and instead of exploring far and wide in a tight schedule to new uncharted territory we decided to stay IN our local island group (the San Juans) and be much more lazy.
> 
> ...


Good advice all around, maybe we just need to force ourselves into a sail somewhere outside our area for a change of pace or something. Maybe we just need some time to acclimate, maybe both. It's only been a little while, and we're just keeping it loose and seeing how the day to day goes I guess.

The coffee filter thing...

for some reason that I can't _quite_ identify - I feel like dogs look when pooping in public. You know, that sad, shameful look around, the loss of dignity... oh the humanity..


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

a8clark said:


> Yeah really, sounds like you better find yourselves another project. Nothing wrong with being a "builder of stuff", it's your way of living life and that's great. Better than being a consummate consumer.
> Cheers,
> Allen


Thanks Allen, first post, sheesh


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Re-focus. You spent all that time on working on the boat, how much time have you spent on working the boat? That's as much a part of the process as the re-fit.


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## dacap06 (Feb 2, 2008)

Chris n Cate,

Advice is free - take it for whatever it is worth. I say to trust your feelings, but keep your perspective. 

There is a natural rhythm to human endeavor. There must be a time of rest and recuperation after a protracted effort. Spend some time doing something else that doesn't involve the boat, something that interests you. Visit relatives you haven't seen in a while. Go to an amusement park. Visit museums (Washington D.C. has a few you'll enjoy). Those are things I would do -- you'll have to come up with your own list.

When it is time to go back to the boat, you'll know. You'll feel that yearning, a build-up of energy, and you'll be ready for the next big push. The bay feels about as big as a bathtub, you say? I think seeds of your next phase are in place. When you are ready, it will be time to leave the tub, see new places, meet new people, and restore your connection to some of the greatest and kindest people in the world -- those who go to sea in boats!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I've never had a salt water head smell, if used routinely. Its the stagnant water in the lines that will decay over several days that is awful. Further, a holding tank doesn't have to smell either. The number one trick is to flush a ton of water. Most don't. A minimum of a full bowl of clean water, after you move the waste out. This keeps the lines clear, where most odor comes from. Second is to keep plenty of aeration in the tank, so aerobic bacteria (which have zero odor) will thrive and break waste down. Anaerobic bacteria are what stink and can't live in well ventilated places. Lastly, is to keep everything, and I mean everything, other than waste and toilet paper out of the tank. No oil, food, soap, cleaners, nothing. They can kill the aerobic bacteria outright or, in the case of oil, create a film on the top that prevents the exchange of air for that good bacteria. 

If composting heads were as good as suggested by their proponents, they would be standard equipment on all new boats by now. Pump outs are a pain that everyone would like to avoid, if the solution were better. People just have different standards. I know some minimalists that could live with a 5 gallon bucket. I assure you the Queen of England is not leaving her DNA in a bucket of peat moss in Buckingham Palace.


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

I understand a bit what your going through....my only advice is to Go Sailing!!!Get out there and enjoy that hard work. Start planning trips, even if its just around the Ches. You had mention something in the past about a ham setup, you could work on that...

Good Luck!!! Look forward to an updated blog


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## sneuman (Jan 28, 2003)

chrisncate said:


> I'm with you on the salt water head with the ornamental holding tank option. I have never used the electric heads myself, and I think right now I'm a salt water head kind of guy (with a wife who feels the same way).


Chris, four years of near constant live-aboard use/abuse and I have been very good things to say about the Raritan PHII. I replaced a couple of o-rings this year, which cost $30 and took all of 20 minutes - but otherwise, it's been one of the more reliable systems on the boat.


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## misfits (Dec 9, 2011)

Very good post on many fronts.

I've seriously considered a composting head on our boat that's under renovation. Mainly because I don't want to deal with dockside pump outs. (Having power boats most of my life, a 3 mile trip to dump the tank was a 5 minute ride.) I also want to utilize the space where the holding tank was for another fresh water tank.

One of the things that has me concerned about composting heads is the height. They are 5"-6" higher than a conventional marine toilet. Add that to the platform the base of the head is secured to, makes me wonder if I'll need wood blocks under my feet to sit on the thing. I will also have to give up the door to the V-berth if I install a composter.

CNC, is it the privacy thing about the head, the odor or height that you dislike? I thought there was very little odor with the composters.

Based upon my own experiences, some of us are just wired so that it is the destination that gives us purpose & keeps us motivated in life. When we meet our goals we begin looking for that next "project". Be patient, you'll figure it out.

Bob


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Wow! No MOJO? That stinks guys! I have the perfect cure, go hang out in a huge mall for 3 days... That always makes me see things clearly!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

misfits said:


> .....I thought there was very little odor with the composters.....


What's "very little" and is that acceptable to most? Personally, once you air out the head from a visit, I expect zero notable odor.

Most of the proponents of these systems want to like them for environmental reasons and tolerate it, IMHO. Good for them. Not for me.


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## sneuman (Jan 28, 2003)

Chris (and Cate):
From what I can see, you've done a fantastic job on the boat. Maybe if nothing else, you've found a new profession ...?


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

Misfits, there is ZERO odor with a composting toilet (unless you've screwed something up). The height is something you have to think about as most boats have a platform for the head. I installed mine on the platform and I think it's a little too high. Later I plan on cutting out the platform and glassing a new, lower floor. The footprint is the same or less than a regular saltwater head so I can't understand why you'd have to leave the door off. It looks bigger, but a composting head is not really any bigger than a normal head, just higher and has more "volume". With the C&C case, that makes 3 cases that have come to my attention of people not satisfied with their composting head. The vast majority seem to think they're great, myself included). 

C&C, what didn't you like about the composting toilet or was it the fact that you didn't have any privacy while using it? I must admit that there is a brief learning/getting used to period with a composting toilet, but it's just like learning to use any other marine head. No question that the home flushing toilet is the easiest!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Copa... I would like to seriously know more about how there can be zero odor. I understand that bacteria will eventually break down the waste. But let's say someone just used the head for solid waste and I go in about 15 minutes or even an hour later and pull the top up. How can there be literally no odor? Even mixed with peat moss or other media, zero odor doesn't seem possible until it breaks down.


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## misfits (Dec 9, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> What's "very little" and is that acceptable to most? Personally, once you air out the head from a visit, I expect zero notable odor.
> 
> Most of the proponents of these systems want to like them for environmental reasons and tolerate it, IMHO. Good for them. Not for me.


Minnewaska,

My understanding of the units is the fact that the head is a "sealed" until you open the trap door to make a deposit. It has an outside air intake & an exhaust that terminates on the deck. I was curious if there was a little odor on the deck from the exhaust termination.

For me it's got nothing to do w/ the environment, it's got to do with not wanting to be tied to dockside pumpouts & wanting the space for another water tank.

Thanks Capo for the info!

Peace


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

misfits said:


> Minnewaska,
> 
> My understanding of the units is the fact that the head is a "sealed" until you open the trap door to make a deposit. It has an outside air intake & an exhaust that terminates on the deck. I was curious if there was a little odor on the deck from the exhaust termination.
> 
> ...


I'm willing to learn more, however, I don't think most want to smell anything when they lift the lid either. Do you? Does your wife or husband want to know you will smell their evidence, let alone them having to smell yours?

I understand the attraction of avoiding the pumpout process, it's a pure nuisance for all. Worse, its all too common that the pump out facilities don't actually get your tank empty, but you think it is...... Bad things then happen.

I meant so say that I believe most proponents tolerate the issues with composting heads, not that there aren't other motivations than the environment and I shouldn't have offered that as my sole point. In the end, they are a trade off, as best I can tell. Not too many that want to walk up the dock to the dumpster with a bag of composted manure. My kids actually refer to the morning ritual of everyone taking off, one by one, to the shore toilets as "the walk of shame". Funny though.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

CnC
Okay, here's the plan:
Go out to Tyson's Corner and spend the day at the mall.
Then on Memorial Day Weekend go to the Air and Space Museum.
Eat out every day.
Are you ready yet?
Head out for Maine for the rest of the summer.
Compare wax jobs with MainSail.
Have dinner on a beach with all the trimmings.
Experience really cold water.
Enjoy the peace and quiet of an idyllic anchorage.
Don't run into any rocks or ledges.
Navigate in fog....
Dang, how can you be let down? You've only scratched the surface of having a really nice sailboat. 
Autumn in the Chessapeake is awesome. 
John
ps. I would fix the toilet thing along the way thereby feeding your need to build things.
and if that doesn't work, I have this old Pearson 28 that needs some sprucing up!


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Chis, your next hobby should be collecting some wonderful barley wines and sour beers that you can cellar in the bilge. That'll keep you busy!


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

CnC,

I'm sorry to hear of your burnout, but it doesn't sound uncommon, or impossible to get over. I know you've been given a lot of advice, so I hope you won't mind a little more:

1. I grew up on submarines, with ZERO privacy and salt water flushing heads. Living in that kind of intimacy takes getting used to, even with a loved one, much less 114 other guys from all different backgrounds, with different social values and norms. You will get used to your wife "pinching a coil" mere inches from you.

2. Take a moment to put all of this in perspective:

You and your wife have completed a monumental undertaking. You (I thought) had jobs that support a cruising lifestyle. You're not tied to a desk. You are standing at the gateway of the incredible adventure of being your own bosses, writing your own stories, travelling to cool places and no one can stop you!

The Chesapeake is beautiful and can take a lifetime to explore, but it is a microcosm. Do you know what would whet your appetite? A long cruise to Maine.

The planning and plotting aspect of this would fill your need to "work" and the cruise itself will take you to a beautiful location that you've never been to, that is rich in sailing history, with a lot of awesome stops a long the way. Summer in Maine could be really nice.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Chris, on second thought, I think you should sell the boat to me. Problem solved...

PS - I will want a thorough survey, especially on the engine!


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

Minnewaska, I understand your scepticism! It does sound too good to be true. I’ve been using a composting head for about a year or so without any problems or odors. When you sit down to use the composter there is the normal odor you’d expect. Once it has dropped into the chamber below, you close the trap door and there is no odor. A few turns on the mixing handle and the “deposit” is coated with coconut fibre and mostly buried. You can open the trap door and put your nose inside and you will only pick up a damp, musty smell like the underside of a log in the woods. No “manure” smell at all. The chamber is vented on deck and has a small fan to create negative pressure. Again, there is no smell on deck. You might perhaps detect that slight musty smell if you put your nose right up to the vent outlet on deck, otherwise, nothing... (not even when it’s in use). That said, composting toilets are not for every boat. I’ve noticed that with a big gang on board for many days the chamber doesn’t have enough time to dry the solids and the humidity in the chamber goes up. You’ll know when this is happening because the crank handle will become harder to turn. There is still no smell, but you will either have to give the composter a few days to dry things out or change the coconut fibre more often. Some people just add more coconut fibre to dry things out, which is fine for the occasional long weekend when you have more guests aboard. I think that for long-term cruising the head is good for 2 people, maybe 3. Others will chime in and perhaps contradict this, but this has been my experience. Dumping the contents is a non-issue. Jut put a garbage bag over the chamber and turn it over, tie the bag and you’re set to go. I dump mine out at sea or under a tree in the woods (off the path, of course). Then there’s the pee jug.... This is perhaps the biggest turn off for users. The jug has to be emptied every day with 4 people (my case). I always dump it before I go to bed. Some people go a few days before dumping, but you have to keep an eye on the level to prevent overflows. The jug is an inconvenience if you insist on carrying it to a public toilet to dump. Everyone I know regularly pees off the rail, so why not just dump it over the side? I would say the jug is the only drawback to the system. What are the benefits? No through hulls, no hoses and valves, no smell, ULTRA SIMPLE unit that can’t break or fail, you gain a ton of space in the head when you remove the holding tank and other stuff. Drawbacks are price (around 1 boat buck) and the strange looks you get from guests when you explain how it works. My wife HATED our saltwater Wilcox Crit. head. It stank, dribbled, regurgitated the macerated solids around the bowl and took dozens of pumps to flush. I know, I know, there was something wrong with the head, but I just couldn’t bring myself to properly fix or replace a system that I knew I would chuck eventually. My wife loves the composting head (I do the dumping to keep her happy). If you’re cool with the pee jug, I’d say go for it. You shouldn’t have any regrets. A final note- the absolute worst thing that can happen with a composting toilet is urine getting into the solids chamber and turning it into a soupy mess. If this happens (it did once) you just dump everything and start again. No big deal. Now think of the disasters you can have with a holding tank...
Whoops, I see that I have rambled on quite a bit. Sorry for the hijack. Now back to our regular programming....


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Wow! Didn't anticipate 4 pages of posts. Chris, glad to hear you're OK, and with luck maybe we'll meet up again when I head to your area in early June for the MDYC Sailnet get-together. I'm taking off for a 10-day sail down the bay and back, probably end up at Point Lookout before heading home, of course that's if the weather cooperates.

As for the head, I have a 20-gallon, welded-aluminum holding tank--absolutely no odor. All my hoses are heavy-gauge, wire-ribbed, white plastic that's about 1/8-inch thick--no odor seeps through them either. I also use a chemical deodorant that I purchased from West Marine that does a great job of keeping the head smelling fresh and clean. That, in combination with a solar vent in the head makes life a lot easier for both myself and the admiral.

Keep in touch,

Gary


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Copa..... Thanks for the composting head recap. It sounds like some are not having such a benign experience.

Others....... As far as encouragement to sail to Maine, one should be careful how well that fits with the OP's experience level. A step at a time makes more sense. Heading directly offshore with little experience, particularly motorless, would be poor advice.

In the end, rebuilding and sailing are two entirely different passions. One does not lead you to the other.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> Heading directly offshore with little experience, particularly motorless, would be poor advice.


But would induce a huge amount of MOJO quickly!


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## scratchee (Mar 2, 2012)

Chris, I was also wondering what was up with you.

As for the mojo, how about painting? How about painting other people's boats (as in, portraits of their boats?)

I'm sure you'll get out of this lull.


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Chris,

Many years ago I helped my Dad build boats and houses, both big, time consuming jobs. I think there are people that like to build, or re-fit and people that like to sail. I always liked to sail better, hated long term projects. I don't know what your sailing experience is, but maybe you like to build more than sail? My wife and kids and I used to travel in a cab-over camper a lot, very "cozy". Our sailing experience was day trips then back to the comforts of home. Hope you find your stride.

Paul T


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## WildJasmine (Sep 10, 2011)

Was wondering what happened myself as a follower of your blog. I understand your feelings, they are normal. My wife and I are going through it ourselves to an extent after quitting our jobs, selling/giving away everything and moving down here onto a 26 footer to travel on. We have projects and things to do before we leave for wherever in July but not a burning desire to get them done though they are getting done slowly.

Many times the excitement and anticipation of an upcoming event (you finishing your boat) is the motivation and the fire. Once the event/vacation/project completion is here there is a feeling of something missing.

But another something will come along soon that reignites the fire of whatever that may be. Wish you guys luck.


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

dabnis said:


> Chris,
> 
> Many years ago I helped my Dad build boats and houses, both big, time consuming jobs. I think there are people that like to build, or re-fit and people that like to sail. I always liked to sail better, hated long term projects. I don't know what your sailing experience is, but maybe you like to build more than sail? My wife and kids and I used to travel in a cab-over camper a lot, very "cozy". Our sailing experience was day trips then back to the comforts of home. Hope you find your stride.
> 
> Paul T


Chris,

Forgot this, when we were forced to take out our old "regular" marine head on our Coronado 25 we replaced it with a bolt down Porta-Potti. When used with a deoderant chemical it didn't smell. The removable receiver tank can be dumped at the marina toilet or any other appropriate place. I would think that if you had one or two extra receiver tanks, which don't leak or smell, you could go a long time between having to empty them. Had the same setup in our camper, worked fine. A benefit is no through hulls are necessary.

Paul T


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

CnC,
I'm sure you will have no problem selling your lightly used composting head... Time to move on with that. 

Seems to me that the Chessy is a pretty big bath tub. What kind of actual sailing of your A30 have you done since moving aboard? I'm quite certain that there are just a few places left that you have not explored by boat. Smith and Tangier Islands come to mind not to mention some of the pristine and beautiful creeks on the eastern shore.

Have you hauled up a spinnaker yet on your boat? Now is a great time to get out on the Bay before the summer crowds start plowing around and the shake and bake season begins. So pack up your dried lentils, 5 kinds of rice and tofu an head out to explore what is arguably one of the east coast's premier sailing areas. 

I hope to be down in 'Naptown in early June and if I find your boat still tied up to the dock I'm a gonna kick a you azz!

There, I said it. See you then.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> I'm willing to learn more, however, I don't think most want to smell anything when they lift the lid either. Do you? Does your wife or husband want to know you will smell their evidence, let alone them having to smell yours?
> 
> I understand the attraction of avoiding the pumpout process, it's a pure nuisance for all. Worse, its all too common that the pump out facilities don't actually get your tank empty, but you think it is...... Bad things then happen.
> 
> I meant so say that I believe most proponents tolerate the issues with composting heads, not that there aren't other motivations than the environment and I shouldn't have offered that as my sole point. In the end, they are a trade off, as best I can tell. Not too many that want to walk up the dock to the dumpster with a bag of composted manure. My kids actually refer to the morning ritual of everyone taking off, one by one, to the shore toilets as "the walk of shame". Funny though.


Mini,

They do work. Try and keep an open mind. I've been happy with mine for 3 years (2 of them full time living aboard). I don't give a rats about the "environmental" aspect of the composting either. Heck I'm a confessed pump over the side guy so I must be an environmental terrorist. If you're in the area I'll invite you over for a whiff test, and I don't do that for everybody. 

Why do they work without odor? I'm not sure. The main function of these units is that they dehydrate the poo. Composting really has little to do with their function. A dog coil only smells when it's fresh and slippery. After a few hours in the open air you have to get REALLY close to smell a dog coil that's been out in sun. I'm guessing a similar process is at work here. The moss or coconut coir rapidly dehydrates your donation and thus once it stops steaming it stops smelling. They also breed aerobic bacteria in the "composting" process. There might also be an odor absorbing quality to the media.

Also they ARE a sealed unit with negative pressure created by a fan constantly drawing air from the inside of the unit to the outside. They don't stink when you open the lid because there's a further trap door keeping the poo/media mix and you separate. The trap door is only opened when your butt creates a seal around the seat so very little air ever escapes into the boat.

Having said all that about the vent though we've run ours for months without the fan it it still didn't smell. Why does it work? Can't honestly tell you I know for sure. I just know that once we figured out how to run it, it doesn't smell at all. Of course, I kept my marine toilets running well too and built by own piping and holding tank systems and they never smelled ether. I have a sensitive nose and lived aboard so I was/am very picky about the smell issue.

MedSailor

I think C&C's main objection is that they were dropping steamers in close quarters! Don't worry though, it's good for your relationship!!


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

Well, thanks to all who posted - I can't respond to everyone but I really do appreciate the insight, advice and general helpfulness. Thanks guys!

Regarding the head, I think composting heads probably work just fine in a larger environment. Our main problem with ours is what I said - too big and too close for the space, we can't separate it from the V in a realistic manner because it's just too high up. If I get the will at some point maybe I'll post a picture of what I mean. We modified the V berth to be a large, solid platform (no removable middle part that's "walkable" - its all lift up storage now) for ultimate comfort and a huge bed (which works great I will add, no regrets there - good comfortable roomy sleep is paramount to sanity imo). In our case, without a removable middle part you really have to struggle to even get around the door to the salon when closing the door. If the head was the original small unit, it'd be no problem at all.

And I will admit that we both just don't like the waterless aspect of doing our business. It's not bad per say, but it just doesn't seem to suit us personally. We're the types of people who like to brush our teeth 5 times a day. We're clean like cats and always have been. The biggest hurdles to date haven't been a lack of furler, a 2hp motor, or all the manual systems - everything but the head has worked out great actually - the composting head is really the only regret regarding the vision for the boat. No, the hardest part has been the hygiene related stuff - the composting head, and the filthy communal marina heads. I could row her all day long, hank and bag sails under the worst conditions - but the filth factor is enough to reduce me (us) to quivering messes. It's hard to accept.

For example, our marina is a condo marina - the slips are privately owned, there is an HOA, etc. I have experience with this sort of marina (owned a slip in one once), and you expect that the management cleans stuff. Well, here they don't. And I don't mean they do a bad job, I mean they have no staff and the poop stains that were on the toilets when we moved in are still there. No cleaning, and the livaboards leave all there personal care items all over the heads. It's so odd, there is a girl living on a ...well, lets just say on a boat - and she leaves her personal towel in the head, 24/7. I have no problem with the concept, I say fine - but any idiot could wipe whatever on her personal towel (and they prolly do). How does one accept this? It's gross, no?

I dunno, maybe I am just a priss when it comes to acceptable public practices regarding shared showers, but I wouldn't leave anything out for anyone to possible contaminate. Call me crazy. I wear flip flops in the showers and my feet never hit the floor, not even once. I carry everything in bags and a I have a full set up that enables my stuff not to touch the gross surfaces that never get clean. This aspect of the life really sucks I have to say. If we were in a foreign land, I'd overlook these things I think - but here? Come on..

Our last condo marina was clean, these issues didn't exist like this. It was still communal heads (and all the possibilities that go with that), but they were cleaned every day. We've been to three marinas since that place, and I have learned they were the exception. Filth or run down is the rule it appears. And this is a "nice" marina too, not some out of the way dump hole. The condo's overlooking the place average 800k, it's not exactly the hood.

The rest, well - I don't want to make it sound worse than it is. Were just in some sort of limbo I guess, and as much as I'd like to be as perfect and content with all aspects of this lifestyle like Windtraveler or any of the countless other blogging positive Pete's out there (the ones where every day is just so _awesome_), I guess we're not and never will be. I am a malcontent weirdo on land, and I am the same malcontent weirdo on the water. Such is life..

I'm sure the interest in sailing will reappear, and if it doesn't.. well, then we'll just do something else. Meh


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

C&C,

I really appreciate your candor. I agree that most blog or tell the story leaving out the hard bits. It make it harder for real people to deal with, well, reality, when the stories we've been told are all 1950s happiness all the time.

I also really appreciate your opinions on the composting head. It seem that, until now, there were only 2 opinions avalible: Those who are suspect of the concept and have never used (or even seen) one, and those (like me) who have and love one. It's nice to have the voice of someone who has one and _doesn't _ like it to add to the mix.

Now un-pitch the tent from the back yard and go sail that stunningly beatuiful boat somewhere interesting damnit! That's an order! 

MedSailro


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

LandLocked66c said:


> Chris, on second thought, I think you should sell the boat to me. Problem solved...
> 
> PS - I will want a thorough survey, especially on the engine!


I think the post office has a flat rate box, the motor weighs 27 pounds so I can ship it to you for your inspection...


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> C&C,
> 
> I really appreciate your candor. I agree that most blog or tell the story leaving out the hard bits. It make it harder for real people to deal with, well, reality, when the stories we've been told are all 1950s happiness all the time.
> 
> ...


Lol, I might need to cut and paste these posts to the blog - I kind of left it hanging, I do better expressing myself on this forum it seems.. maybe it's the interaction with others as compared to the one way presentation that a blog is.. anyway, I'm glad to be of help. I hear you on the "two options" re: composting heads.

We really don't hate it, we just hate it on our boat and for us personally. I'd still recommend it to people who have the room and understand the plusses and minuses. I will note that the smells are no worse and actually better than a typical marine head (ones that I have experienced anyway). If a traditional head was as high up as the N/H, we'd have the same issues with it I think. What needs to be noted about the N/H is the cleaning part and the coffee filter thing. What it's really like I mean. Those are the real drawbacks imo. You need to keep a spray bottle filled with 93% alcohol mixed with vinegar to spritz the bowl after a deposit, and a sealable disposable baggy to hold excess T/P that you might use or use to to wipe it down. These things are too much for us, but again - on a bigger boat with hot water on tap, prolly alright.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

sneuman said:


> Chris (and Cate):
> From what I can see, you've done a fantastic job on the boat. Maybe if nothing else, you've found a new profession ...?


Thanks Scott, I appreciate the words. The thought has crossed my mind, and I do enjoy the work. I'd easily do everything all over again, minus the bottom paint down to gelcoat removal by hand of course uke... it was a blast refitting her. Best time ever.


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## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

I live aboard and I use composting head. I like the thing. Just don't use the coffee filters. Deposit the "stuff" directly into open compartment. I mean open the trap door and sh*t right in. It is a lot cleaner and less smelly.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Okay, I've learned a thing or two about composting heads and believe they can work. As I've heard from others, they can also not work. The pee bottle thing, water not cleaning the bowl out and putting used tp in a bag isn't going to work for most, that's for sure. Those make it clear to me why they aren't standard equip, but I'm happy for those that are finding them useful. 

My daughter is having 6 of her closest 18 year old girlfriends aboard for a weekend this summer. Annual ritual. Could you imagine them all using a composting head? They would never come back. And trust me, the dock hands desperately want them to come back. (the friends are all fodder for keeping them distracted from my daughter)

By the way, I personally have no problem dumping urine overboard, however, it is just as against the law as solids in no discharge areas. Just don't do it in the marina.

Since I have to install a new tank monitor in my holding tank this weekend, I'll let you know how I feel about it all on Monday.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

chrisncate said:


> I dunno, maybe I am just a priss when it comes to acceptable public practices regarding shared showers, but I wouldn't leave anything out for anyone to possible contaminate. Call me crazy. I wear flip flops in the showers and my feet never hit the floor, not even once. I carry everything in bags and a I have a full set up that enables my stuff not to touch the gross surfaces that never get clean. This aspect of the life really sucks I have to say. If we were in a foreign land, I'd overlook these things I think - but here? Come on..
> 
> Our last condo marina was clean, these issues didn't exist like this. It was still communal heads (and all the possibilities that go with that), but they were cleaned every day. We've been to three marinas since that place, and I have learned they were the exception. Filth or run down is the rule it appears. And this is a "nice" marina too, not some out of the way dump hole. The condo's overlooking the place average 800k, it's not exactly the hood.


My home marina keeps up pretty well, but I, too, have seen some filthy facilities along the Bay.

We just returned from the BVI. What struck me the most was how well the marinas that we visited kept the facilities cleaned. They looked almost like someone swept through multiple times during the day to make sure the heads were near spotless, basins wiped down, towels replenished, etc. I read somewhere that the BVI decided to focus on the charter industry/recreational boaters rather than the cruise industry as a way of keeping a handle on maintaining their way of life and not having the islands trashed and it certainly seems like they cater to the small boaters down to keeping the marina bathrooms clean.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Part of the problem is finding an American that is willing to take a job cleaning toilets. Seriously, its a problem.

Our marina tries to get the dock hands to do it, but they are all college students who are being raised to be white collar executives, or whatever. This year, they are outsourcing to a cleaning company and I'm willing to bet they send immigrants.


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

Minnewaska, just a final observation. Your composting head shouldn't be "dirty" if you're using it properly. The solids never touch the bowl. They drop straight into the chamber below through the trap door. The urine runs into a jug in the front. After you use the toilet, all you have to do is spray a bit of vinegar and water solution to cleanse the urine channel. You can put toilet paper in the composter, but it fills it up a little faster. I have always had a small garbage can w/lid lined with an airtight plastic bag (the kind that you buy in a roll). All the paper goes there. The pee bottle is a bit like a "holding tank". You can dump it as per state regulations or just dump it over the side. If you're worried about complying with no dumping regulations you could create a special, bigger tank just for urine. Anyhow, if you scour the net for information you'll find that people who have installed compostig toilets are generally extremely happy with them. I only know of 3 cases of people un-installing theirs and going back to a wet head. I've lost count of the number of threads about leaking, smelly wet toilets and holding tank nightmares. Composting toilets are not yet "mainstream" in the marine world as there is a lot of misinformation and negative perceptions about them still. Perhaps the best thing to do before you decide one way or another is visit a boat with a composting toilet, talk to the owner and see how it really works.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Copa, I will keep an open mind, but I'm not in the market for one. I'm perfectly happy with my electric maceratingflush heads and 77 gallon holding tank. No smells unless someone doesn't flush properly, just as it's clear that improper use of the composter would be a problem as well. 

I have a laminated card in each head so guests remember how to do it. Press the Flush button (which simultaneously fills and drains) for three seconds until bowl is clear. Then press Fill button until full to the rim with water, then Drain button until empty. Easy peasy and makes all feel pretty close to a home toilet. Before emptying the holding tank, I always flush a couple more clean gallons down each head.

We have a bowl brush and Raritan CP (Clean Potties, which won't kill good bacteria) next to each bowl if it needs to be cleaned, just like at home. No guest wants to leave evidence behind, visual or otherwise.

When I swap these out, I'm going to VacuFlush, as the water usage is about 16th of what this requires, which will dramatically expand capacity. Fresh water will be nice too, not because the salt water itself is a problem at all in the tank. Salt water has organisms that die when trapped in the intake line while stagnant for days, making that first flush rather smelly. But its not sewage smell, its low tide smell. If you flush even once per day, this never happens. We run fresh water down the head before we leave, so that the waste lines don't have any stagnant salt water in them, but can't fix the intake.


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

I think the VacuFlush with fresh water sounds great and most resembles a "home" toilet. I just wanted to keep things simple on my boat as I hate fixing stuff (and if I'm fixing the loo I'm not fixing something else!). This weekend I have 3 boat guests who are not boat people (first time sailing). I'm sure the composting toilet is going to cause them some grief and getting used to ...


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## Flybyknight (Nov 5, 2005)

With respect to hot water, it seems to me that the marina should provide you with 110; and given that, a cheap, simple 1 gal. electric hot water heater would be perfect for basic washing. I have one and it works great for us.
Dick


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## snider (Jun 26, 2006)

I'm always a little skeptical when I read a sailing blog or book where everything is happy all of the time. I think there is this perception that if you are out sailing or living aboard that it must be great and most people tend to try to portray that it their writing. I've read several accounts of people who have sailed across the Pacific, only to get there and feel disappointed. However they felt too guilty to express their feelings to others. So again, thanks for the candor. I stumbled on your post so I'm not familiar with your refit or blog. I need to look at it. I've been the same way over the last few years, I'll find a deal on a boat, buy it refit it then for some reason sell it and repeat the process. It's getting a little old at this point though, I'm ready to go sailing. Having a baby kind of slowed the refit process down and now I have a boat that isn't quite ready but the weather is perfect here. Nothing like a little perspective. Do you have a link to your blog? Just from what you've said it sounds like you've taken a simple approach to outfitting, after my own heart, lol.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Hey guys, thanks for the heads-up on the composting head. Was considering going that way but will now make sure I don't remove the seacock


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

Just curious in a "no discharge zone" would it be illegal to jump in the water, do you business, then get back on the boat? Just like what whales and dolphins do. Not that I would do this, but just curious.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

casey1999 said:


> Just curious in a "no discharge zone" would it be illegal to jump in the water, do you business, then get back on the boat? Just like what whales and dolphins do. Not that I would do this, but just curious.


NDZs cover discharge from a vessel.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

casey1999 said:


> Just curious in a "no discharge zone" would it be illegal to jump in the water, do you business, then get back on the boat? Just like what whales and dolphins do. Not that I would do this, but just curious.


It is my understanding that it is technically illegal to do so, however, I also think that is ridiculous.

However, I might be banned from the tree hugger meetings, because I don't believe that recreational boat discharge makes any difference whatsoever, OUTSIDE coves. I would not permit any discharge in marinas, but every single boat in Naragansett Bay couldn't discharge as much as one treatment plant currently does. It's ridiculous. The Eco system can and does handle some waste. It just can't be overloaded. No way on earth that recreational boats could overload it in any open water.


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## -OvO- (Dec 31, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Part of the problem is finding an American that is willing to take a job cleaning toilets. ... I'm willing to bet they send immigrants.


Who says America doesn't have a caste system? (sorry, off-topic.)

And you know what? Giving 18 year-old girls a pass on stupid silly squeamishness about "gross" stuff is just delaying their maturation. They should have got over "ewwwww, grossss!" by the time they were 14. Make 'em bag their TP and you'll be doing them a favor, along with anyone they ever have to be in a relationship with. (sorry, off-topic again)

Back on topic: Chris, any chance you could get Cate to pop in here? I'm curious (not that I have any real right to the satisfaction of the curiosity) about *her* take on things - straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.


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## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> ... every single boat in Naragansett Bay couldn't discharge as much as one treatment plant currently does. It's ridiculous....


Yep....same thing with volcanos and man's greenhouse gasses......

BTW - No intention of starting an eco war....just a comment.....

So, I'll also say....I have a marine head system with zero odors. I use the good old Thetford blue stuff and keep the head clean...males must sit to pee....everyone sits to do whatever. Use at least 3 good pulls to flush and add plenty of water to the tank with every solid deposit. I learned from 4 years of RV experience and trying so many "eco-friendly" options. Nothing beats good old Thetford blue. Period.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

smurphny said:


> Hey guys, thanks for the heads-up on the composting head. Was considering going that way but will now make sure I don't remove the seacock


This is a good idea. We kept our toilet installed and put the composter in the shower (we were at a marina and could use theirs) and used the composter for 3 months before we were sure enough to pull out the regular head.

MedSailor


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

Chris - I 'm disappointed, I thought your interest was to sail - sans motor into the sunset !! 
I've been visiting you blog and expecting to get reports of your journey to where ever.
I apparently mis-judged you. This is a big crush to my personal rebel nature and I feel somewhat betrayed. Had I paid admission , I would be interested in a full refund.
And since you brought it up, what's with the premadonna attitude with the cleanliness infatuation , life is a dirty situation . 
Of course I'm shocked (ok not really) that those folks in them 800k condo's even emit any soil at all , certainly it's eminating from those low down dirty blow boaters. 

Ok solution, come to the boatyard I'm currently at and do all the repairs and refit stuff on my craft I could easiliy and cheerfully do without and I'll gladly keep the hot water flowing and the marina bath house **** and span for you and the wife until your done w/ all my repairs, what do you say ?
And to the poster that is perpetuating the falacy of americans too good to do a janitors job. I want to thank you for giving me a great idea on how to egratiate myself into new marine facilities I visit (while anchored near by). I now will add to my resume' that I am not too good to clean the bathrooms in exchange for monitary compensation or barter. 

I'm of course jesting on a few points here, or am I ?

sail safe,have fun, or what's the point.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

joethecobbler said:


> Chris - I 'm disappointed, I thought your interest was to sail - sans motor into the sunset !!
> I've been visiting you blog and expecting to get reports of your journey to where ever.
> I apparently mis-judged you. This is a big crush to my personal rebel nature and I feel somewhat betrayed. Had I paid admission , I would be interested in a full refund.
> And since you brought it up, what's with the premadonna attitude with the cleanliness infatuation , life is a dirty situation .
> ...


Ouch, but fair enough points - I don't deny the let down. For you and us both.

If you have read my blog, or posts here you should know one thing - if nothing I am honest. I could have just lied and made like all is roses (like I suspect many blogs/posters do regarding the reality of certain things), but I didn't and I won't. You can't possibly think I spent the last year and a half of my life building our dreamboat only to lose my grasp on the dream at what was supposed to be the gravy time. I didn't plan for this malaise, and I certainly didn't/don't want it. It's just what's going on right now, what do you want me to say? What _can_ I say other than to be honest?

Regarding the cleanliness thing, it's true and I (we) can't help it, it's just who we are apparently. I never really gave a whole lot of consideration to this sort of thing being important to us, but apparently it is - much more so than any "motor" debate or furler ideology. Who knew.. I certainly didn't. Hardiness and simplicity is fine and still desirable - filth and feeling like crap is not. You aren't living my reality, and you don't know (and I can't convey) every last little detail about it. You're just going to have to trust me that right now some $hit is crossing the line regarding these things, and I suspect you and everyone else would feel the same in my shoes. Maybe not, but I think you would.

Honestly, I have been trying to figure out what the hell my problem is and why I can't (and never seem to be able to) just enjoy all the good things my own two hands have wrought for us, in the moment when I am supposed to. It's me I suspect (know), as who in their right mind would do all the work we have done then lose interest/get all melancholy at the point where you're supposed to kick back and actually enjoy the fruits of your labor? I planned on doing just what you expected, sail off motorless (ok, 2 horsepowered, but nevertheless..) into the sunset.

It's not a forgone conclusion that we won't or aren't, this is just where we are at this moment. It's been an experience and a nutty existence for this last year and a half, and maybe all this is just the "come down" before the next "high". I just don't know (and I am not going to claim that I do when I don't). Anything can happen right now, and I wouldn't bet either way at this point. We're in new territory in our lives, we're taking things as they come.

If you want me to help you with projects or even paint your boat, I will. I have nothing else (other than work, non boat related) to do right now, and honestly I'd like to do some of that stuff again. Pay me what you think it's worth, or don't pay me at all, I don't care. I'll help you out if your close by, PM me.

Lastly, re this:



> I apparently mis-judged you. This is a big crush to my personal rebel nature and I feel somewhat betrayed. Had I paid admission , I would be interested in a full refund.


I'd like to note that the truest rebel nature is the one where you are totally honest with yourself and everyone else, and you don't get let down by others because you aren't living vicariously through them - because you do your own thing. Consequences be damned.

You had expectations and so did I, does it make me a bad guy that things are where they are? Is this my fault (am I not doing something right)? You tell me... I'm all ears and I'd welcome any answers.


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

thanks for the response, I'm in your corner man. 
I hope you know I'm mostly just picking on you, as I know how it is. Most of the "great" ideas I've had in my life seem often anticlimactic as well. I'm sure you'll get it right.
As for the offer of boat assistence/repair , I wish I were closer to ya ,but currently we're in upstate NY fingerlakes region. Wont be down your way until the fall . Hopefully on the way to the Keys (my dream-hope I'm not disappointed) .
based on the photo's of your craft you've definately got a knack for boat work. Myself , I only do-it out of necessity or for compensation ! 
As per the bath-house situation, it is amazing how some folks live. My crew and I can definately relate. I find it has more to do w/ the management (or lack of) of the facilities and less to do with the location or the per foot rate of dockage. I am suprised though that it's the way it is where your at.
Also it reinforces the lack of value issue of a slip vs. anchoring/mooring and makes me more resolute to become/remain autonomous while cruising/adventuring. in this way I never have to wonder about the clleanliness aspect of the facility I'm paying for.
I'd say its time to untie the dock lines and get a little wind therapy, always works for me.


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## sneuman (Jan 28, 2003)

Maybe the solution is to come back to that (not-so-mythical) 'clean' marina on the Magothy River.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

joethecobbler said:


> thanks for the response, I'm in your corner man.
> I hope you know I'm mostly just picking on you, as I know how it is. Most of the "great" ideas I've had in my life seem often anticlimactic as well. I'm sure you'll get it right.
> As for the offer of boat assistence/repair , I wish I were closer to ya ,but currently we're in upstate NY fingerlakes region. Wont be down your way until the fall . Hopefully on the way to the Keys (my dream-hope I'm not disappointed) .
> based on the photo's of your craft you've definately got a knack for boat work. Myself , I only do-it out of necessity or for compensation !
> ...


Nice, thanks 

We'll be fine, I think I make it sound worse than it is. We're just continue to shake out what works and what doesn't, and see how things go over the summer and fall. Fall looks like I'll be installing a traditional head at the very least.

It's all good, I think the advice to untie and head out locally is good advice - right now we're low on money so I am mostly just working (maybe that's part of the problem...) and refilling the bank.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

How would you feel about a joint sail to somewhere local?


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

sneuman said:


> Maybe the solution is to come back to that (not-so-mythical) 'clean' marina on the Magothy River.


We tried, I talked to Vic via text and she was going to get back to me about slip availability/cost but never did. I kinda figured that was a hint, as I think I may have offended her by asking about specifics regarding pricing of l/a fees and slip costs and whatnot. We don't have the kind of money we used to have once upon a time, and I had to ask so I knew exactly what we'd be looking at - I think it may have turned her off (or maybe it was just me personally... I do have that effect occasionally..)


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

BubbleheadMd said:


> a joint sail


Is that like a booze cruise for the 420 set?


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

BubbleheadMd said:


> How would you feel about a joint sail to somewhere local?


You suppling the joints? If so I'd feel great about it 

(yea though, we should hook up for a sail sometime - it'd be fun. I still have to replace the front stay first before I can drive her hard - but yea, lets maybe plan for a meetup on the water sometime soon)


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

bljones said:


> Is that like a booze cruise for the 420 set?


Ha, perhaps I should have said "collaberative"? I mean, a cruise where we each take our own boat.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Chris, how are you guys going to cope with the sanitation issues of other countries? Even in the Bahamas the water is borderline gross and stinky - at least the places i've been too. Sounds like your cruising may be limited to Sandals resorts and the like?  Not trying to be a jerk - you know that - but it is a reality.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

LandLocked66c said:


> Chris, how are you guys going to cope with the sanitation issues of other countries? Even in the Bahamas the water is borderline gross and stinky - at least the places i've been too. Sounds like your cruising may be limited to Sandals resorts and the like?  Not trying to be a jerk - you know that - but it is a reality.


I think we'd do fine under those circumstances honestly. The boat (by that point) would have a head that's not configured like ours is currently, and in foreign places one may expect a certain level of sanitation.

Keep in mind we had to sign a six month lease (so we live here). It is hardly the same as visiting a place and knowing your time is limited (and putting up with whatever). We're not that bad about the whole thing, I am making our toilet standards sound worse than they are. It just boils down to our head not working for us coupled with a way dirty marina head. It's not the end of the world or anything.

This whole thing is a big change (duh), and these are just the growing pains. I should be more positive here on the forums..


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

chrisncate said:


> I think we'd do fine under those circumstances honestly. The boat (by that point) would have a head that's not configured like ours is currently, and in foreign places one may expect a certain level of sanitation.
> 
> Keep in mind we had to sign a six month lease (so we live here). It is hardly the same as visiting a place and knowing your time is limited (and putting up with whatever). We're not that bad about the whole thing, I am making our toilet standards sound worse than they are. It just boils down to our head not working for us coupled with a way dirty marina head. It's not the end of the world or anything.
> 
> This whole thing is a big change (duh), and these are just the growing pains. I should be more positive here on the forums..


Kewl, that's what I thought you meant about the whole situation - most the time it's difficult to judge through type only.


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## JoeDiver (Feb 2, 2011)

This will pass.....burnout is normal in anything you do where you focus your attention so thoroughly. Take a break and do something else for a while. Maybe just go out for a quick evening sail/cruise to watch the sunset.

Even on days when I'm "on the fence" about going sailing....I push myself and just go....because, and it never fails, once I'm out on the boat and under sail, I'm SO HAPPY I went sailing! Never fails.....


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

JoeDiver said:


> This will pass.....burnout is normal in anything you do where you focus your attention so thoroughly. Take a break and do something else for a while. Maybe just go out for a quick evening sail/cruise to watch the sunset.
> 
> Even on days when I'm "on the fence" about going sailing....I push myself and just go....because, and it never fails, once I'm out on the boat and under sail, I'm SO HAPPY I went sailing! Never fails.....


Good advice. My 7 year old boy is like that. At the house I say let's go to the beach. He says I don't like the beach. I drag him to the beach anyway. It is now nearly sunset and I cannot get him to leave the beach.

Chris:
Untie those dock lines and do some local sailing. Then do what you got to do to make you boat perfectly safe (think you have mentioned you need to replace the standing rigging) and start planning your longer trip. And thanks for being honest about what is going on. Hang in there.


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