# Why don't boats have headlights?



## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I've been night sailing some, and I plan to do more. Why don't sailboats have a headlight? Like a super powerful led light? Like something like this?

http://www.lightandmotion.com/the-perfect-light/on-water/night-sailing

It's supposed to be about as powerful as a motorcycle headlight, it's USB rechargeable and you could take it in your dinghy?

This thread probably should be in gear.


----------



## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Some boats did have headlights: Pacemaker comes to mind. You can still get the hull inset housings. I had to replace one in a friend's boat a couple of years ago.


----------



## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Some boats do have "headlights" but they are docking lights, and best used only for that.
If you would go on deck one night and shine a "super powerful led light" at the water off your bow, watch it for a few seconds and then look around you, I think it will quickly become apparent why boats do not have headlights. Unlike cars on a road, boats can come at you from any angle, not just ahead, behind or at intersections, never mind the need to see navigation marks, etc..


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Back in the 1960s and 70s, there loads of powerboats with headlights. They worked great. I know of a dozen charter fishing captains that have them and would not leave the dock without them. Contrary to popular belief, they actually do act just like car headlights, and they're far superior to a spot light because they were mounted below the bow and did not reflect on any portion of the boat - just the objects in front of the boat. They were wonderful for navigating in tight quarters with lots of unlit buoys and day markers, as well as locations where there are lots of anchored boats that choose not to turn on their anchor lights because it runs the battery down. 

Many of the powerboats that had them were high-speed boats that zipped along at speeds in excess of 40 knots. When I had my store, I custom installed them on some Chaparral, Donzi, Pro-Line, Boston Whaler, Mako and Starcraft boats. Back then, a pair ran about $400, one for each side of the bow. And you had to cut a hole in the bow to insert the light fixture into. They would sure make life a lot easier when navigating through a maze of crab and lobster pot markers at night in New England and Chesapeake Bay. I wish I would have had them on my boat the night I nearly slammed into a massive stake net more than a mile off Tilghman Island. I can still hear my wife screaming "we're gonna die."

Gary


----------



## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

capta said:


> Some boats do have "headlights" but they are docking lights, and best used only for that.
> If you would go on deck one night and shine a "super powerful led light" at the water off your bow, watch it for a few seconds and then look around you, I think it will quickly become apparent why boats do not have headlights. Unlike cars on a road, boats can come at you from any angle, not just ahead, behind or at intersections, never mind the need to see navigation marks, etc..


I'm not thinking of it to watch for boats coming at me from different directions, but only to illuminate the area in front of me, or since the example I posted is a handheld flashlight, if you were entering an anchorage or rocky area, you could detach it and hold it to look around. Or flash it around to look for those navigation markers. My trickiest time sailing at night was in the rain. Night vision or no, it was hard to see a big rock until I was closer than I wanted to be. Had I a light, I could have illuminated the rock.

I agree not to shine it in the water and hope for good night vision afterwards, and it would only be used in certain circumstances, not like vehicles these days with daytime running lights, or you automatically turn it on whenever sailing at night, but only when needed. And not shone down at the water, but more straight and up. This flashlight I saw online also has different heads you can put on, like spot, wide angle, night, or red.


----------



## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

NOB

What would you use them for?

Night sailing is fun and peaceful largely because of the lack of light. 

I have several of the lower powered personal headlamps for working hands free. Started using them in the 70's for winter camping/climbing They're great. For the boat I have a red lens that flips down to help prevent night blindness. 

It sounds like what you're talking about is much brighter, more like a searchlight. I have those too, (handheld) but avoid using them around other boaters. Typically, they get used to help locate an unlit can, nun or a day mark on a black night. 

For me it's usually in the same spot on the Miles River route into St Michael's. Md. It gets very black back in there and there are a few unlit marks. 

I wouldn't want something that bright on my head on the boat. 
Certainly not in any vessel traffic as you're always looking around. That's a sure way to get shot at...lol Like the last man on a match in a foxhole

Most of the time I find that there's enough light on a clear night to locate most unlit Atons If you know where to look, especially if there's a moon out. 
Lobster buoys and crab pots show up pretty well too.


----------



## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

travlineasy said:


> Back in the 1960s and 70s, there loads of powerboats with headlights. They worked great. I know of a dozen charter fishing captains that have them and would not leave the dock without them. Contrary to popular belief, they actually do act just like car headlights, and they're far superior to a spot light because they were mounted below the bow and did not reflect on any portion of the boat - just the objects in front of the boat. They were wonderful for navigating in tight quarters with lots of unlit buoys and day markers, as well as locations where there are lots of anchored boats that choose not to turn on their anchor lights because it runs the battery down.
> 
> Many of the powerboats that had them were high-speed boats that zipped along at speeds in excess of 40 knots. When I had my store, I custom installed them on some Chaparral, Donzi, Pro-Line, Boston Whaler, Mako and Starcraft boats. Back then, a pair ran about $400, one for each side of the bow. And you had to cut a hole in the bow to insert the light fixture into. They would sure make life a lot easier when navigating through a maze of crab and lobster pot markers at night in New England and Chesapeake Bay. I wish I would have had them on my boat the night I nearly slammed into a massive stake net more than a mile off Tilghman Island. I can still hear my wife screaming "we're gonna die."
> 
> Gary


Do you honestly think any pair of headlights would be of any value at 40 knots? They would have to be incredibly far reaching lights. Even holding a big Q-Bean light, I'm not comfortable going even 10 in my dink, with 25 knots available, and that darned thing leaves me totally blind outside it's light, no matter how much I shield it. On no sport fish boat I've run, that had docking lights, could they be used safely as operating lights, at anything more than idle, maybe 5 knots. When others are operating with their docking lights as headlights, they totally blind everybody else on the water and are extremely dangerous, often overpowering and obscuring their running own lights.


----------



## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

So, I clearly mis-read headlight for headlamp. Many boats, mostly power, have search lights mounted, many remote controlled but they're not kept on while underway. 

Basically, they're not approved navigation lights.


----------



## Mechsmith (Jun 7, 2009)

I set one up but the fog off the water made it worse than none at all. That was on the Calusahatchee River wanting to see daymarks into channel. Maybe a different color or polarizing would help but white light was worse than usless.


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

The searchlights are usually mounted on top of cabins and T-tops, but unfortunately, search lights tend to illuminate the entire boat unless they're shielded, which most are not. These lights are not meant to replace navigational lights and not advertised as such.

Are they as effective as a car headlight, yep, and you see about the same distance. So does this mean you would be afraid to drive your car more than 10 MPH with your headlights turned on because they didn't illuminate things well enough in front of you? The low beams of a standard automotive light illuminate to a distance of about 60 feet on average, while the high beams nearly double that distance. So traveling at 40 knots in a boat is no different than driving the same speed in your car at night. So if your boat, or car is moving at 46 MPH at night, and you have your high beams on, and something unexpected shows up 120 feet away, at that speed, do you think you can respond quickly enough to either turn the boat or stop it? I would hope so.

Gary


----------



## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

travlineasy said:


> The low beams of a standard automotive light illuminate to a distance of about 60 feet on average


Dude, replace your headlights now! If they only shine 60' that's not even close to safe.


----------



## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

travlineasy said:


> So traveling at 40 knots in a boat is no different than driving the same speed in your car at night.


Uh, seriously?

Roads, brakes, street lights, traffic signals....


----------



## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

See: radar. 

Better would be either 'starlight vision' or infrared. Away from traffic/civilization, go [starlight/ambient light/night] vision, goggles or scope. In a location where starlights would be swamped, go to infrared.

Not cheap, but better than blinding yourself & everyone around.

Maritime Thermal Night Vision | FLIR Thermal Vision

#include{std-disclaimer}


----------



## fryewe (Dec 4, 2004)

travlineasy said:


> The low beams of a standard automotive light illuminate to a distance of about 60 feet on average, while the high beams nearly double that distance.


I think Minne's right, Gary. You might want to check those figures.

One way to think about this is that 60mph is 88fps. With only a 60 foot lit pathway you would cover it in about three-quarters of a second. My experience is that I have around 200 feet on low beam and about 300 on high beam.

Bright lights kill night vision which can kill you at sea. You can't see dim features in unlit areas.

A question I have is...if you run with bright lights topside (even if they don't make your navigation lights hard to see) and you have an incident, couldn't a case be made that your lookout(s) were ineffective due to the lights...making a ruling against you in court more likely?


----------



## DJR351 (Mar 3, 2010)

caberg said:


> Uh, seriously?
> 
> Roads, brakes, street lights, traffic signals....


----------



## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

travlineasy said:


> The searchlights are usually mounted on top of cabins and T-tops, but unfortunately, search lights tend to illuminate the entire boat unless they're shielded, which most are not. These lights are not meant to replace navigational lights and not advertised as such.
> 
> Are they as effective as a car headlight, yep, and you see about the same distance. So does this mean you would be afraid to drive your car more than 10 MPH with your headlights turned on because they didn't illuminate things well enough in front of you? The low beams of a standard automotive light illuminate to a distance of about 60 feet on average, while the high beams nearly double that distance. So traveling at 40 knots in a boat is no different than driving the same speed in your car at night. So if your boat, or car is moving at 46 MPH at night, and you have your high beams on, and something unexpected shows up 120 feet away, at that speed, do you think you can respond quickly enough to either turn the boat or stop it? I would hope so.
> 
> Gary


I'm sorry, but they are not nearly as effective as the headlights on a car. On a road there are certain things which you expect to see, and everything is illuminated on a ribbon of pavement. On the water, it takes much longer to identify what you are seeing and then react properly, never mind looking around and refocusing on the light ahead afterwards. 
If you travel at 40 knots in onshore waters at night, you should NOT expect to arrive at your destination safely, headlights or not. And, in case you haven't noticed, boats do not normally have brakes, so unlike a vehicle ashore, slowing down is not quite as easily or swiftly accomplished.
I sincerely believe nothing is better than a good set of eyes at night on a boat with a prudent mariner operating the vessel.


----------



## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

DJR351 said:


>


And that was my closest experience with death. You can't see a black steer on the highway at night even with high beams. How much harder is it to see a sand bar or rock ledge?
Nothing says stink pot more than headlights on a boat. Their use is surely distressful to other sailors and creates problems for the user that makes him unsafe. 
If you are in a narrow channel picking you way from unlit navaid to unlit navaid, I sure hope you are jot doing 40 kts, even 5 or 10, but just maintaining steerage while using a low powered spot/flash lite to pick up the next mark.
If you are in open water, you really need your night vision for 360 degree watch keeping for others navlights.
John


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

My bad on the range, should have said meters - not feet. There is a huge difference. I have been aboard several large boats with headlights installed -they were great.

As for stopping distance, anyone with powerboat experience knows how fast they come to a stop when the throttle is pulled back to neutral. The boat squats and stops. Granted, there are no street lights on Chesapeake bay, but there are not many on I-95 either.

Gary


----------



## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

travlineasy said:


> My bad on the range, should have said meters - not feet. There is a huge difference. I have been aboard several large boats with headlights installed -they were great.
> 
> As for stopping distance, anyone with powerboat experience knows how fast they come to a stop when the throttle is pulled back to neutral. The boat squats and stops. Granted, there are no street lights on Chesapeake bay, but there are not many on I-95 either.
> 
> Gary


Fine Gary. You go for it buddy. Anyone below on your motor boat when you pull the throttles into neutral from 40 knots, will certainly thank you from their hospital bed, but hell, you've won this discussion. You go on speeding down the waterways with your headlights blazing and I'll do my best to stay out of your well lit way, just in case. It seems a prudent mariner you are not.


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

I think this thread is hillarious...


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Me too, Christian! I don't speed anywhere - I own a sailboat. Yep, ripping right along at 5 to 7 mph on the better days.  Hey, I did get er up to 10 a couple times. Man, the wind was screamin that day. 

Capta, 55 years on the water, never had a single injury on any boat I've owned - not one. Guess I must be doin something right, even if it doesn't meet your personal standards. I don't want to get into a pissing contest here - the OP asked "Why boats don't have headlights." Well sunshine, they have in the past and some still do. And, to my personal knowledge, which I realize is not as expansive as yours, I've never heard or read of a single accident directly related to those lights - not one. Never heard or read of a boat being stopped by the USCG because the lights obliterated the running lights. Now, if you know something I don't about this, I would sure like to see a link to the information.

Have a fun day sunshine,


----------



## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

christian.hess said:


> I think this thread is hillarious...


Won't be long before someone mentions 'high beams' - then the thread will really bust out....


----------



## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

If you want them, put them on. I've been thinking about putting a light on the lower spreader, shining forward, and shielded so no light goes splashing down onto the deck.


That test easily proved the value of forward lighting when coming into harbor. They tend to be a bit pricey though. Has anyone use one of those LED spotlights and liked them? Which brand did you get? I see them on eBay but don't want to buy one and find out it's not that good.

Regards,
Brad


----------



## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Bene505 said:


> If you want them, put them on. I've been thinking about putting a light on the lower spreader, shining forward, and shielded so no light goes splashing down onto the deck.
> 
> That test easily proved the value of forward lighting when coming into harbor. They tend to be a bit pricey though. Has anyone use one of those LED spotlights and liked them? Which brand did you get? I see them on eBay but don't want to buy one and find out it's not that good.
> 
> ...


What he said, or this is the device I saw online which I was referring to...

GoBe+ 700 Wide

It's really a high powered flashlight. I called the title headlights, but I wasn't meaning two beams permanently mounted on the bow, but more a removable device like this high powered flashlight, to use only on occasion. I was thinking of the time in the rain and dark and rocks, it would be handy to have a light like this. It would, in effect be a headlight. A headlight meaning a light whose purpose is to illuminate the way forward. But I'm saying in practice it wouldn't be at all like a cars headlights. More really a spotlight to turn on when necessary.

As the spew site notes, there are different heads you can put on, wide, spot, night. It could be a nice gadget to have aboard. And like I said earlier you could use it in your dinghy. It has different settings, low, lasting for hours, and high being about like a single motorcycle headlight. I've never used one...

I could just see a lot of sailing uses for it. Some of you have dogs, you're in a quiet anchorage. Maybe it's just you in there. It's dark, the dog has to go ashore, you grab this light, get I'm the dinghy and pick your was to a safe beach landing amongst the rocks.

You could use it for anchoring. I often arrive really late, like at 8-9. Sometimes it's getting dark. Use the light to see how far you are from the rocks, see how much scope to let out.


----------



## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

northoceanbeach said:


> What he said, or this is the device I saw online which I was referring to...
> 
> GoBe+ 700 Wide
> 
> It's really a high powered flashlight. I called the title headlights, but I wasn't meaning two beams permanently mounted on the bow, but more a removable device like this high powered flashlight, to use only on occasion. I was thinking of the time in the rain and dark and rocks, it would be handy to have a light like this. It would, in effect be a headlight. A headlight meaning a light whose purpose is to illuminate the way forward. But I'm saying in practice it wouldn't be at all like a cars headlights. More really a spotlight to turn on when necessary.


Why not just get a handheld searchlight, then?

This is about the best I've found, good bang for the buck... Pretty impressive, I don't know why anyone who ever sails at night doesn't have something similar, many of the boats I deliver it's pathetic what they might have aboard that passes for a searchlight...

BRINKMANN Blue Max Marine 2 Million Candlepower Rechargeable Spotlight | West Marine


----------



## dylanwinter1 (Jan 15, 2010)

this one had headlights


----------



## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIQTa343NfMfoQc9xx6PIa3Wh9hzVFX2OqmWENzu5wOXgnC988


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Bene505 said:


> If you want them, put them on. I've been thinking about putting a light on the lower spreader, shining forward, and shielded so no light goes splashing down onto the deck.


I object.

The biggest problem with fixed spotlights and the "headlights" that are often sold as docking lights is the impact on the night vision of those you share the water with.

I do have and sometimes use a portable spotlight for finding unlit daymarks. The number one priority in use is to avoid flashing the helm of other boats.

Work lights on tugs and barges, aimed at their decks, are bad enough. Moving around the water with bright white lights shining out toward others is not leaving a clean wake.

People will do as they like but that doesn't mean what they do is right or even polite.


----------



## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

SVAuspicious said:


> I object.
> 
> The biggest problem with fixed spotlights and the "headlights" that are often sold as docking lights is the impact on the night vision of those you share the water with.
> 
> ...


Agree completely... This seems a particular problem along the ICW in Florida, where morons running the channel at night in powerboats have their searchlights on continuously. One of the better uses of the sort of searchlight I pictured above - although it's not kosher - is to give them a taste of their own medicine, until they get the hint...

The large tugs one can encounter on the Ditch have some of the most powerful searchlights out there, and through certain stretches they need to rely on them heavily when running at night... When you meet up with them, however, they are invariably courteous in using them, taking care not to shine them directly at oncoming traffic, they understand how blinding the effect can be...

Mounting a fixed light on the rig seems essentially worthless, anyway. Why would you want to limit its ability to light only straight ahead, or have to change course to point the entire boat at what you're attempting to see? Quite often, when running a channel like the ICW, you might want to check on your relation to a daymark astern of you, and the beauty of a handheld, is that it can be directed in any direction _intstanly_ - unless you're trying to do so from inside a full cockpit enclosure, that is... 

I've used a lot of remote control searchlights on powerboats usually mounted overhead, some of them are pretty slick, but still not as practical nor easy to use as a simple handheld. The best ones are quite expensive, and could present a considerable amount of weight and windage aloft. This Cabo Rico I've run has a Guest remote mounted on the pulpit, the thing is so lame it's essentially worthless. Running the boat south last December, when I knew I'd be likely to be running a fair amount after dark, I brought my own light along for the trip, rather than having to rely on that POS...












smurphny said:


> https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIQTa343NfMfoQc9xx6PIa3Wh9hzVFX2OqmWENzu5wOXgnC988


Ahhh, the old "Morse Docking Lights"...

Pretty useless for anything other than docking...


----------



## sugarbird (Dec 23, 2013)

Okay, I'll bite. IMHO there are limited, specific circumstances where fixed lights would be/are helpful, and many, many commercial vessels are so equipped. 

BUT, there are huge difference in the challenges facing operators of vessels at night and motor vehicle operators - for one (unlike a vehicle), you can "wander off the road" and not even know it! So you (again, much different than a car going down the highway) must look around for lights, unlit marks, landmarks, and other traffic (some of which may be bearing down on you, unlit or poorly lit). Your night vision is adversely affected by staring into the lit "cone" of the headlights, so you're not going to be able to look around and see these or gauge relative position, and you likely won't be able to see dimly lit marks off to the side, or even those lit marks dead ahead beyond the reach of your lights.

Depending on the type of boating you do, a smokin' powerful handheld spotlight, used judiciously, can be a great tool, because you can shine it where you expect/hope to see something in 360 degrees, AND confirm there aren't any unlit surprises close at hand. Reminds me of night scuba diving where the other guy has the only working divelight - everything is hunky dory until you want to see what's behind you (cue theme music from "Jaws"), but your buddy keeps shining the light the other way


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

JonEisberg said:


> This Cabo Rico I've run has a Guest remote mounted on the pulpit, the thing is so lame it's essentially worthless.


I've run some boats with bow-mounted remote-controlled spotlights that automatically "park" pointed aft, presumably to protect the lens. Unfortunately you have to turn them on to spin them around forward, which means shining the light in your own eyes. Just not smart.


----------



## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Shining any kind of bright light at night is something I try to avoid. As everyone has noted, the affect on night vision is tremendous. It takes a LONG time for eyes to readjust after a spotlight is turned on for any amount of time. I have a couple of zillion candlepower handheld spots. They almost never get used. If it is inky black and some unlit markers have to be seen, I will briefly flick a spot on and off very quickly just to get a quick snapshot so eyes do not really have time to lose the night vision. Except for those very dark, inky type nights when it's almost vertigo time, using a spotlight is not necessary. A light not only screws up night vision but it somehow distorts depth perception. One of the most annoying situations is coming through an inlet while some stinkpotter is shining a continuous beam all over the place and in your face! One reason to not use a spot is because you're messing up everyone's night vision. That would be one huge reason to rethink any idea of "headlights."


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

northoceanbeach said:


> What he said, or this is the device I saw online which I was referring to...
> 
> GoBe+ 700 Wide
> 
> ...


HAVING POWERFULL DECKLIGHTS though was a godsend many many times while cruising...when something got stuck or we needed an amergency light to go up the mast or see somthing clearly on deck hell yeah light it up

however as mentioned we did this briefy and used it as little as possible the reason being it would take SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long to get your eyes back to normal and doing this say in a reefy area or rocky area or close to shore at night would mean you are navigating blind for 2, 3 4 minutes after shutting the lights off

but headlights especially on sailboats really not needed...

we had a very powerfull flashlight...maybe like this one...dunno...that we used a couple of times in anchorages like you say but not for anything else


----------



## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

Here's quite a good article on the eye and night vision. The Eye and Night Vision

This article has been adapted from the excellent USAF Special Report, AL-SR-1992-0002, "Night Vision Manual for the Flight Surgeon", written by Robert E. Miller II, Col, USAF, (RET) and Thomas J. Tredici, Col, USAF, (RET))


----------



## TerryBradley (Feb 28, 2006)

Hey! You guys have just given me a brilliant idea. I think I'll mount a couple of aircraft landing lights on my spreaders. I bet I can see and be seen more than a mile away!


----------



## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

Another good use for the pirate one eye patch....protect your night vision


----------



## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Here in the PNW/BC/Alaska running at night you are liable to run into a 2' diameter X 40' log if you don't have a light so we avoid it whenever possible in the sailboat. We have a powerful remote controlled light on the power boat and use it when it's really dark (if I ever encounter another boat I turn it off). It's also invaluable for entering harbors with rock jetties and finding the slip in dark marinas. On the sailboat we carry a very powerful (and very small) flashlight (much brighter than any of the handheld spotlights I've owned) that lights up the world when needed. Got it from a site called Four Sevens, I think it was this one:
https://www.foursevens.com/products/flashlights/Maelstrom


----------



## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

I just put one of the new LED spotlights on my bow pulpit. Wunnerful!


----------



## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I win the debate! Sweet. This summer I expect us all to have flashlights...I'm placing my order now.


----------



## capt vimes (Dec 2, 2013)

just imagine - you zip along the water with your flood lights ablaze and all clear in the small pathway in front of you, when you decide to turn...
uups - there is an unlit rock now visible because the headlights are now upon it!
enjoy the pleasure of hearing GRP getting torn apart... 

how are you supposed to make out some flashlights, leading lights and even lit hazard markers when you blind yourself?
it is difficult enough with all the background lights from streets, cars, villages end so on...
honestly - this headlights for sailing boats is the stupidest thing i heard in a long time...


----------



## blutoyz (Oct 28, 2012)

I actually thought that this was going to be a joke thread. 

Headlights on a boat:laugher:laugher

Docking lights...ok

Headlights on a boat:laugher


----------



## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

capt vimes said:


> honestly - this headlights for sailing boats is the stupidest thing i heard in a long time...


Yup, I've got to agree with you, there... 

What baffles me most, is why anyone would choose a _FIXED MOUNT_ light, facing forward, over a hand held - or at least a swiveling remote control - searchlight... Of what use would such a 'headlight' have in a MOB situation at night, for example? It would not come _remotely_ close to having the utility of a powerful handheld searchlight, having to 'aim' the entire boat - instead of just the light held in your hand - is just _way_ beyond stoopid 

Every cruising boat should have a powerful searchlight with the portability of a cordless handheld aboard, in my opinion. Even if one is not anticipating running at night, is it really that difficult to imagine the uses it can be put to as a safety/security/signalling device even at anchor? Has no one else ever been in a situation where someone's tender came untethered in an anchorage at night, for example, and realized how nice it would be to have a 2 million candlepower handheld light to toss in your dinghy, and help with the search for it? In any situation at night with a person or piece of gear in the water, such a light could be one of the most essential tools at your disposal...


----------



## SailingJackson (Jan 1, 2011)

christian.hess said:


> I think this thread is hillarious...


I'm with you. I think the concept is clueless.

I remember one beautiful night, rowing to shore from the mooring. It was a great summer night with a full moon. You could read a newspaper it was so bright. Some moron with a power boat and a gizzion CP searchlight was scanning the water with his beacon and nailed me. He kept the light on me as he motored toward the same dock I was going to, just to make sure he knew where I was. I was shocked at the amount of night vision I lost. Even after he turned off his light I was blinded and started bouncing into buoys and boats. I couldn't row for about 5 minutes when my vision started to recover.

I suspect few of the people motoring with headlights or spotlights realize how much they could see if they dimmed all cabin lights, flashlights, etc, and allowed their eyes to adjust before heading into harbor.

GTJ


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

searchlights shouldnt even be árt of this discussion as they are for emergency use only

my only suggestion was the use of decklights for sailboats in again emergency uses....most guys I have sailed with think the same

powerboaters and the mentality of 95 percent of them is mainstream landlubber thought processes and its part of the reason why you see so much gadgetry, car like features and land features on powerboats and not on sailboats(unfortunately sailboats are going down that path too)

to me the question is ridiculous and should be shotdown...but for the sake of objectiveness and ideas I participated

once you go out sailing and cruising a bit I can think of only a couple of times maybe where I needed a spotlight or search light...

we always carried one but man headlights

whats next wipers for the running lights?


----------



## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

christian.hess said:


> searchlights shouldnt even be árt of this discussion as they are for emergency use only


Well, this thread is a classic example of a poorly worded subject line on the part of the OP...

Re-reading the first post, and following his link, seems like some form of flashlight of searchlight is precisely what he was asking about... 



northoceanbeach said:


> I've been night sailing some, and I plan to do more. Why don't sailboats have a headlight? Like a super powerful led light? Like something like this?
> 
> Sailing
> 
> ...


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

its also a classic example of people going on off tangents! jajaja

wink wink


----------



## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

The only times I've sailed at night we sailed through the night and didn't dock or get near anything we could hit till daylight, so I don't have anything to add about lights during actual sailing.

However I do have a flashlight to recommend for taking the dinghy to shore or whatnot. I take my bicycle headlight with me. It's completely waterproof, crazy bright, extremely rugged, and recharges from a USB cable. 
NiteRider Lumina 700


----------



## Ferretchaser (Jan 14, 2011)




----------



## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

In the long winters here in BC, I do most of my sailing at night. I think the reason so many don't get it is because they rarely go out at night. All workboats here have powerful headlights, and use them a lot. Due to logs, most plastic boaters try to make port before nightfall, and live in fear of getting caught out at night, so avoid it like the plague.
Thus most have zero experience with a headlight on the bow, and very little if any night sailing experience.
A spotlight lights up so much deck that the reflected light blinds you, so that you cant see much else. Tried that, doesn't work. 
A spotlight on my bow pulpit, clear of any deck hardware to reflect it back, lights up only the water ahead of me , where I am going, and thus what matters. In open water it is hard to tell if it is on, as there is nothing to reflect it back. Only when something looms ahead, do you realize how bright it is.Coming and going at night, my LED spotlight on my bow pulpit has been a huge improvement, especially when motoring thru crowded anchorages at night. 
Go for it ! It's only logical! Ignore the jeering amateurs!


----------



## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Brent Swain said:


> Coming and going at night, my LED spotlight on my bow pulpit has been a huge improvement, especially when motoring thru crowded anchorages at night.
> 
> Go for it ! It's only logical! Ignore the jeering amateurs!


Whatever it takes, I suppose...

But, even the jeering amateurs don't crash into things with the frequency that you do:



Brent Swain said:


> My boat will be 30 years old on May 12th, *I have hit a lot of rocks, some at hull speed...*


----------



## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Sadly ,headlights don't show rocks. Sadly , plastic boaters have to worry a lot more about hitting rocks , often a non issue for metal boaters, so plastic boaters don't go out at night if they can avoid it, and sail with greater caution and paranoia when they do. I prefer not having to worry so much.
Bump, who cares?


----------



## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

JonEisberg said:


> Yup, I've got to agree with you, there...
> 
> What baffles me most, is why anyone would choose a _FIXED MOUNT_ light, facing forward, over a hand held - or at least a swiveling remote control - searchlight... Of what use would such a 'headlight' have in a MOB situation at night, for example? It would not come _remotely_ close to having the utility of a powerful handheld searchlight, having to 'aim' the entire boat - instead of just the light held in your hand - is just _way_ beyond stoopid
> 
> Every cruising boat should have a powerful searchlight with the portability of a cordless handheld aboard, in my opinion. Even if one is not anticipating running at night, is it really that difficult to imagine the uses it can be put to as a safety/security/signalling device even at anchor? Has no one else ever been in a situation where someone's tender came untethered in an anchorage at night, for example, and realized how nice it would be to have a 2 million candlepower handheld light to toss in your dinghy, and help with the search for it? In any situation at night with a person or piece of gear in the water, such a light could be one of the most essential tools at your disposal...


I bought another 3 handheld spotlights today. They make great gifts to friends with boats. (I've given the other ones away already and they are very appreciated.)

Regards,
Brad


----------



## MUSIC40 (Jan 29, 2009)

Not gona read all this and I'm gona guess that this has been mentioned?

One of my two boats is a 80's searay 24 power boat with a spotlight on the bow-it helps out and I wish my sailboat had one!


----------



## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Human eye is a remarkable thing. Cones( color) need high light intensity but rods( black/ white) don't. Takes >30m to fully acclimate and just a second or two to lose it. Light off of sails is enough to lose it. Use only highly focused dive lights as rarely as possible and only red light on boat. Works just fine. Trick of turning head slightly side to side improves ability to pick up shapes. See no reason for color vision at night. See no reason for head lights although do carry a spot light which is still in its original box.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

outbound said:


> See no reason for head lights although do carry a spot light which is still in its original box.


Head lights are awful -- when you turn to look at someone you blind them. Not a good thing at all.

My crew gets one "freebie" then I confiscate.


----------



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Wow! I'm really surprised at the emotion and rancor raised by headlights of all things.... Really? Ok.

I get the argument that you can ruin your night vision, but beyond that the backers of the "conventional wisdom" here are loosing me. Why on earth would someone want lights facing forward? Ummm.... that's the direction the boat is going. Sailing backwards is hard to do. Sure, cars (hopefully) stick to their lanes and boats can come from any direction but these boats are carrying lights of their own, (red and green). Also, running with headlights (actually most of us are going more of a walking pace than really "running"  ) lights you up like a lighthouse. 

I have always had a bazillion candlepower spotlight aboard and a couple of times it has really saved my bacon. Coming into anchorages, harbors or locks a little too late in the day come to mind. While I wouldn't suggest that forward-only facing lights should be a substitute for handheld daylight (like for a MOB situation) it is MUCH easier to accidentally shine the handheld one on part of the boat, thus ruining the precious night vision. It's best if someone else can be up at the bow with the spotlight, but I can imagine wanting headlights that are fixed if I am single handing. You only have so many hands. 

I also wonder if it's area dependent. The pacific northwest is FULL of logs, debris, and crab pots. For my trip I have been contemplating from San Francisco bay to the PNW, I want to run at night, but I can't imagine doing it without lots of forward facing light. 3-5 knots and lots of forward light is how I imagine it could be done. I don't think night vision alone, unless there is a lot of moon, would be enough to keep your prop free of crab pots and logs.

Up in my neck of the woods all the fishing boats have huge amounts of fixed light and run at night turning the immediate area around them into daytime. Are they blind beyond their sphere? Likely. Are they impossible to miss from the deck of any other vessel? You bet! 

Med

PS The most clever, low buck headlights I ever found were on a commercial fishing boat. They had a mast with spreaders for their fishing gear and on the spreaders they had mounted 6 of the cheap 12V spotlights with the cigarette plugs. They had cut the wires and hard wired them in. 6million candle power for about $60.


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

you cant compare fishing boats to sailboats man...sorry but they light up all sorts of things like the decks, equipment,towers, etc...so they can see what they are working on

i dont see that as an objective comparison at all

of course in the pnw dealing with logs and stuff in currents I can see the benefit but of course not in a headlight sense but in an articulating and portable sense


----------



## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

outbound said:


> Human eye is a remarkable thing. Cones( color) need high light intensity but rods( black/ white) don't. Takes >30m to fully acclimate and just a second or two to lose it. Light off of sails is enough to lose it. Use only highly focused dive lights as rarely as possible and only red light on boat. Works just fine. Trick of turning head slightly side to side improves ability to pick up shapes. See no reason for color vision at night. See no reason for head lights although do carry a spot light which is still in its original box.


A fixed light on your bow pulpit never hits your sails, unlike a handheld.


----------



## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

MedSailor said:


> Wow! I'm really surprised at the emotion and rancor raised by headlights of all things.... Really? Ok.
> 
> I get the argument that you can ruin your night vision, but beyond that the backers of the "conventional wisdom" here are loosing me. Why on earth would someone want lights facing forward? Ummm.... that's the direction the boat is going. Sailing backwards is hard to do. Sure, cars (hopefully) stick to their lanes and boats can come from any direction but these boats are carrying lights of their own, (red and green). Also, running with headlights (actually most of us are going more of a walking pace than really "running"  ) lights you up like a lighthouse.
> 
> ...


WELL SAID! Pretty much sums it up!


----------



## SoOkay (Nov 27, 2004)

northoceanbeach said:


> My trickiest time sailing at night was in the rain. Night vision or no, it was hard to see a big rock until I was closer than I wanted to be. Had I a light, I could have illuminated the rock.


I think all you would have done is illuminate the rain and destroy your night vision. Same way that illuminating fog makes it harder, not easier to see (that's why foglights in cars are low to the ground, illuminate under the fog)

There are two main types of night vision systems right, image intensification and thermal ones. We use an image intensification monocle at night, I feel they have advantages over thermal ones in an average boating enviroment, including in the rain. And using amonocle, you can keep one eye adjusted to darkness.

Also, If I'm near shore, at night, in the rain I rather be in an area I know well, otherwise I'd recommend pointing out to sea and coming back at dawn.


----------



## fryewe (Dec 4, 2004)

Squidd said:


> Another good use for the pirate one eye patch....protect your night vision


"WHITE LIGHT!...WATCH YOUR EYES!!!" used to echo around the control room of every submarine when the smoking lamp was lit and the room was rigged for red while on the surface or within thirty minutes of going to periscope depth. Smokers would bellow it out before striking their match or lighter. "CLEAR!" would signal the light was out.

When running deep with white lights bright the Officer of the Deck and one other watch stander wore red goggles or an eye patch. Studies in the seventies showed that the eye patch was inferior to red goggles...the brain is used to the eyes working in tandem...and though the eye patch was effective it was not as effective as red goggles.

So the eye patches were discarded...

...or passed to those who drank rum and raced in the Wednesday pm beer can races.../jk


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Brent Swain said:


> A fixed light on your bow pulpit never hits your sails, unlike a handheld.


How about the fellow coming the other way?


----------



## blutoyz (Oct 28, 2012)

fryewe said:


> "WHITE LIGHT!...WATCH YOUR EYES!!!" used to echo around the control room of every submarine when the smoking lamp was lit and the room was rigged for red while on the surface or within thirty minutes of going to periscope depth. Smokers would bellow it out before striking their match or lighter. "CLEAR!" would signal the light was out.
> 
> When running deep with white lights bright the Officer of the Deck and one other watch stander wore red goggles or an eye patch. Studies in the seventies showed that the eye patch was inferior to red goggles...the brain is used to the eyes working in tandem...and though the eye patch was effective it was not as effective as red goggles.
> 
> ...


I don't recall red goggles or eye patches...Is that a fast boat thing?

I was a DOOW on a boomers


----------



## MUSIC40 (Jan 29, 2009)

MedSailor said:


> Wow! I'm really surprised at the emotion and rancor raised by headlights of all things.... Really? Ok.
> 
> I get the argument that you can ruin your night vision, but beyond that the backers of the "conventional wisdom" here are loosing me. Why on earth would someone want lights facing forward? Ummm.... that's the direction the boat is going. Sailing backwards is hard to do. Sure, cars (hopefully) stick to their lanes and boats can come from any direction but these boats are carrying lights of their own, (red and green). Also, running with headlights (actually most of us are going more of a walking pace than really "running"  ) lights you up like a lighthouse.
> 
> ...


Like I said I have not read much of this thread but I read your post now and a few others.

My goal in sailing is in part to go to places where there is no one to blind as in its dark if I arrive at night and since I'm not a bat I need help.

Please assume if I arrive at night (at a social)I will take precautions to protect the rods and cones of my fellow sailer?


----------



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

SVAuspicious said:


> How about the fellow coming the other way?


Perhaps our cruising grounds are fundamentally different. I've never been down the ICW, but headlights could perhaps blind oncoming boats on a waterway like this. Where I cruise, there is usually a good bit of separation between boats. Also, where I cruise, there aren't many folks sailing at night.

If I were to install forward facing lights (which would be a supplement to a handheld or fixed searchlight) my goal would be to light up the water 100yards or so in front of the boat. At 7 knots, that would give me 25 seconds or so of vision in front of the boat. The lights would be aimed down at the water, and not up and out into the distance. Of course, I don't think I'd want to run at 7 knots, so it would be even more time. Oncoming ships and boats would be spotted by their running lights, their headlights if they have them , radar, AIS etc.

Another thing to consider is the degradation of night vision with age. How many of you grey hair types, who have spent a lifetime in the sun developing cataracts, still have adequate night vision? I was boating with a friend who, in his 70s couldn't see the cliff wall in front of us with his night vision, but I could in my 20s. Perhaps all this talk of preserving the precious night vision is somewhat age dependent?

MedSailor


----------



## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Brent Swain said:


> Sadly ,headlights don't show rocks. Sadly , plastic boaters have to worry a lot more about hitting rocks , often a non issue for metal boaters, so plastic boaters don't go out at night if they can avoid it, and sail with greater caution and paranoia when they do. I prefer not having to worry so much.
> Bump, who cares?


So, then, why the need for a spotlight mounted on your bow?

Seems rather odd, that a guy who intentionally drives his into log booms at hull speed, and repeatedly hits rocks without a care in the world, would be so concerned with hitting something floating on the water's surface...

And, anyone who can't find their way through a "crowded anchorage" after dark without the aid of a "headlight" mounted on their bow, should probably re-think that whole 'sailing at night' thing to begin with...


----------



## Dirtyfloats (Apr 21, 2014)

Once again,
It's just another tool to help you get the boat where your going safely, and in some degree of comfort.

Yes, Lights can wreak havoc on your night vision,
Yes Lights can blind other boaters

But really, Like any tool, used wisely lights can be of amazing value.
Seems like a no brainer to me....


----------



## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> If I were to install forward facing lights (which would be a supplement to a handheld or fixed searchlight) my goal would be to light up the water 100yards or so in front of the boat. At 7 knots, that would give me 25 seconds or so of vision in front of the boat. The lights would be aimed down at the water, and not up and out into the distance. Of course, I don't think I'd want to run at 7 knots, so it would be even more time. Oncoming ships and boats would be spotted by their running lights, their headlights if they have them , radar, AIS etc.


Here's the main problem I see with that... On most sailboats, a bow-mounted searchlight will be placed in very close proximity to your bow navigation lights, rendering them all but invisible to other vessels off you bow. Not good, you are under an obligation to make your running lights as visible as possible, and one of the greatest frustrations of dealing with fishing vessels or cruise ships lit up like Christmas trees at night, can be the impossibility of distinguishing their running lights...

I think some are greatly overestimating the effectiveness of such lighting in open water... I've used a wide variety of permanent searchlights over the years, this model from ACR is perhaps the most popular one out there today on the sort of boats I've run... About $1,100, weighs about 50 pounds, and I don't even want to think about what the amperage draw would be if left on continuously on a boat under sail...










However, their rated candlepower is a mere 200,000 CP... Hell, that's only _ONE TENTH_ of the power of a $50 handheld from Brinkmann or similar... These types of lights are not really that powerful, at all...

Perhaps it's just me, but I just don't see this sort of permanent illumination being all that effective... For me, detecting objects floating in the water at night is all about the subtle ability to distinguish the odd shape against the ambient background of the water, there is almost always sufficient light from the sky to provide some contrast... Whenever I've tried running to a searchlight due to concerns about floating debris or whatever - on a waterway like the Erie Canal, for instance - I invariably quickly realize that my vision is greatly improved by doing without it...

Others' mileage may vary, of course, but this stuff doesn't work for me...


----------



## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

As usual have to agree with Jon. Find often can pick up objects in water by their effect on wave train or surrounding water. Find this most often occurs as I scan surrounds. Believe head lights would increase tendency to stare ahead and not scan so be counterproductive .


----------



## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

I have hundreds of hours running patrol boats at night under all sorts of conditions. When conditions are good, artificial lighting is a nuisance. Change the conditions, they're another tool to make navigation more safe. I have a Rigid Industries D2 driving light that I can mount on my bow pulpit when I need it. 20,000,000 candle power, 2.5 amps. It's superior IMO than a handheld spot light from the cockpit, as you don't get any reflection back from the deck or other parts of the boat. Just pure light out in front of you. I don't anticipate using it all the time, just when I need it.

Rigid Industries LED Lighting | Leader in Off road LED light bars, truck LED lights, Marine LEDs, and Industrial LEDs


----------



## Brewgyver (Dec 31, 2011)

travlineasy said:


> My bad on the range, should have said meters - not feet. There is a huge difference. I have been aboard several large boats with headlights installed -they were great.
> 
> As for stopping distance, anyone with powerboat experience knows how fast they come to a stop when the throttle is pulled back to neutral. The boat squats and stops. Granted, there are no street lights on Chesapeake bay, but there are not many on I-95 either.
> 
> Gary


I-95 also isn't even rippling... Traveling at 40 kts in a boat at night is outrageously stupid. If the rest of us are really lucky, any idiot doing 40 tks at night ONLY kills himself, and doesn't do too much property damage on his way off the planet.

As to stopping distance, that is of course dependent on several variables, most importantly hull type, but also weight and water conditions. Any low drag hull will continue to plane for quite some distance on flat water. Witness how many PWC riders kill themselves and/or each other in head-ons every year, because they panic and back off the throttle, instead of maintaining power and steering to avoid.


----------



## Brewgyver (Dec 31, 2011)

JonEisberg said:


> (snippage) Even if one is not anticipating running at night, is it really that difficult to imagine the uses it can be put to as a safety/security/signalling device even at anchor?


Could be useful getting the attention of the operator of that much bigger boat that "didn't see" your boat until it ran through it.


----------



## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Best sailing I ever had was at night with a gentle breeze off the starboard quarter. Full moon and beautiful. One of my kids was down below sleeping on a 90nm journey. It was getting late, but I didn't turn on the engine to make port at a resonable hour beccause -- well it was sooo good that you didn't mind what time you arrived.

Then again, there's sailing into our home port. Fishing boats everywhere. One boat at the end of a T dock shines it's stadium-worthy lights right down the inlet, so your night vision is destroyed before you even get close to the place. If they ever turned their light off while I was between the jettoes, we'd be toast. I always have a handheld spot light ready, but a spreader light facing forward would be perfect in a place like this.

After storms we sometimes have big floating logs. I saw one right outside that same inlet, right were the power boats come flying through. Yes, I reported it to the Coast Guard. Would probably have taken it in tow but was sailing solo. If it was night, I'd want to see it in time to avoid it. That's not going to happen in a place where shore lights turn your rods and cones into jelly.

I love sailing at night with just the nav lights on (actually, would probably like them at the mast top), but there are some times that forward facing lights would help. Tricky entrances, coastal after storms, and even when trying to make sure you are seen. Spreader mounts seem the best to not interfere with nav lights, to face downward a bit, and to avoid a backsplash of light.

It's another tool in the box, to use considerately when needed. 

Regards,
Brad


----------



## Brewgyver (Dec 31, 2011)

erps said:


> (snippage 20,000,000 candle power, 2.5 amps. Rigid Industries LED Lighting | Leader in Off road LED light bars, truck LED lights, Marine LEDs, and Industrial LEDs


20 million for 34 watts seemed a bit much, so I clicked on the link. Rigid lists that light at 20,612 candela, or just over 21,000 candlepower. That would make 20 million a slight exaggeration.


----------



## MUSIC40 (Jan 29, 2009)

Brewgyver said:


> 20 million for 34 watts seemed a bit much, so I clicked on the link. Rigid lists that light at 20,612 candela, or just over 21,000 candlepower. That would make 20 million a slight exaggeration.


Hey that's a good point and on that note its time for a brew!


----------

