# Goofy, fun additions? (plus questions on flag etiquette, ratlines)



## wkwray (Aug 24, 2008)

Hello,

Just this summer I got a 25' Tanzer. I don't plan on racing it (its rating would be through the roof), so I plan on making it as fun of a cruising vessel for college kids like myself as possible. I get my racing fix on a J34 - I'm willing to sacrifice speed and beauty for fun on my boat.

I want to add ratlines for no purpose other than to make it look more like a pirate ship, and perhaps get a bosun's chair or harness just for fun. I'm working off a college kid's budget, so I was curious as to whether any of you had suggestions for a very cheap way to install ratlines.

I was also curious as to whether painting the hull all black would be a bad idea for any reason other than reducing resale value. 

Where would I fly a pirate flag if I wanted to do so with proper flag etiquette? My guess is that I should do it on the backstay below an American flag. If I wanted it to be bigger and more of an eyesore, though, couldn't I fly it off the port shrouds or spreaders or something?

Please let me know if you have any suggestions for interesting, creative additions that don't require electricity. It's ok if they're an eyesore or are impractical for blue-water cruising. What would you do if you were a 20 year old who didn't worry about his boat being an eyesore?


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

wkwray said:


> I want to add ratlines for no purpose other than to make it look more like a pirate ship, and perhaps get a bosun's chair or harness just for fun. I'm working off a college kid's budget, so I was curious as to whether any of you had suggestions for a very cheap way to install ratlines.


I don't think there is an expensive way to put up rat lines . If you want some "shippy" ideas for your boat, drop $12 on a book called "The Marlinspike Sailor". It gives instruction on how to make ratlines, rope mats, rope fenders, and other old school sailing fun. Then, all you have to do is get your hands on some three strand and start ratlining the hell out of your shrouds.

The Marlinspike Sailor at Amazon

Another cool looking and actually functional idea would be baggy wrinkles. They are fluffed up old rope pieces that go around the shrouds in areas where the sail material touches. They look cool and protect the sail from chaffing the shrouds. The Marlinspike Sailor teaches you how to make baggy wrinkles. See..... baggy wrinkles:


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"Where would I fly a pirate flag if I wanted to do so with proper flag etiquette?"

You wouldn't. Any member of a civilized society would have opened fire on a pirate ship and sunk it on sight.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

If it were me Id find me a rigger and see if he will give you some old standing rigging off something else hes got lying around and run an extra set for the ratlines leaving your standing rigging unaffected and cobbled on. Cheap cable clamps and oak boards from free pallets will do the rest. Attaching it all is going to be the hard part.
FWIW your adding a lot of weight aloft and it will make your boat noticeably more tender me thinks....

But we only get to be kids once even though we may wear dippers twice..


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## mwrohde (Dec 1, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> "Where would I fly a pirate flag if I wanted to do so with proper flag etiquette?"
> 
> You wouldn't. Any member of a civilized society would have opened fire on a pirate ship and sunk it on sight.


*rolls eyes*

He's doing it for fun. He's not /really/ a pirate, nor would anyone today likely confuse him for one. This is something that's pretty common place, and can be done without harm.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

As mentioned there is no proper flag etiquette for flying a flag signifying you are an outlaw, might I suggest a first navy jack or other American historical flag ? As you may have guessed, many sailors REALLY dislike piracy and don't see the fun in flying their flag.


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## RichNH (Aug 5, 2008)

wkwray said:


> Where would I fly a pirate flag if I wanted to do so with proper flag etiquette?


I was always under the impression that pirates didn't pay much attention to etiquette of any sort...


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## jjablonowski (Aug 13, 2007)

*Carbide cannon*

Add one (or several) of these:  
Maybe paint on some gun ports.


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## marinegirl405 (Jun 7, 2007)

> Where would I fly a pirate flag if I wanted to do so with proper flag etiquette?


"Proper" Flag etiquette has no place for a pirate flag / Jolly Roger. So your question is not possible to answer. (but that never stopped me before)

Flying such a flag is technically illegal, at least in some countries (e.g. the UK. However the US - where I presume you live and sail - does not seem to have any real flag "rules"). Wherever you are it still upsets some people. However if you are going to fly one, most people seem to fly high from the shrouds. If you fly it on the back, certainly NOT above the country flag. Note - you do not need to fly a country flag unless you leave your national waters, and you probably would NOT want to fly it in international waters - so you could simply fly it instead of the country flag.

As for a black Hull, no real problem with that... although if you sail in especially hot climates it will be a heat sink and may be unbearable to sleep in. Of course if you are sailing in more northerly waters that would be a benefit to soak up extra heat  I used to have a dark green Hull - dark hulls (well kept) look way better than white ones.

Whatever you do - have fun!


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

SapperWhites suggestion on the book is a good one, we have one onboard and have made some cool stuff with this book as a referance, like a old school rope boarding ladder

Ratlines can be a simple as wooden (teak ) stock between the lower shrouds up to the speader, see these all the time,check out some other boats around to see how the secure them to the shrouds

As far as the pirate flag, don't pay any attention to the stuff shirts, fly it off your spreaders, fly it off your stern, it's a novality for christ sakes, doesn't make you a criminal


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## rrh (Jun 4, 2008)

You might want to Google Gasparilla images. Lots of pirate theme there, including pictures of the pirate ship that invades Tampa, FL every year.


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## jjablonowski (Aug 13, 2007)

*Walk the Plank!*

But ya gotta add one, first.

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/rwahlfel/www/HobiePiratePlank.htm


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## jbondy (Mar 28, 2001)

Ditto the advice about the stuffed shirts. There's no proper way to be a non-conformist!

If you're going to be having anyone walk a plank, be tossed into the briny or be keel-hauled, make sure you've got an easy way to get back on the boat. Preferably something rigid, a rope ladder over the side can be pretty tough to climb.

Have fun!


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Hey maybe a big old pirates flag at anchor in Guatemala is all you need for security...Pirates were always knowen to be armed and dangerous...


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## tonybinTX (Feb 22, 2008)

how about carving your own figurehead?


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

add some belay pins, which come in handy, again they're pretty simple to do and can be added just below the first step of your ratlins


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## J36ZT (May 18, 2008)

Arrrr! Don't ye be pay'in no attention ta' the landlubbers. Ye can hoist a Jolly Roger anywhere ye likes. But, don't ye be a fly'in it aft nor above me Old Glory! Old Glory 'tis flown from 0800 'til dark. Ye don't need ta' be fly'in her if ye likes, 'cept ye be respect'in her...or I'd be runnin' ye through. I've seen many a noble soul lost to the causes She's flyin' fer.

Now, ye need ta' be askin' 'round fer help ta' be a savin' yer pieces o' eight. Me thinks yer local Coast Guard errr Yacht Club might be a willin' ta help so as they can use ye craft fer boat parades, or pluderin'...whichever ye likes. They may be a tellin' ye where ta' get ye rope cheap, 'sides a chanderly or hardware store.

As fer ye black decks...could be a damagin' yer Gelcoat, 'specially if'in ye be in lower lattitudes. Ye can fix it by covering ye decks wit' ye tarp when not engagin' in ye plunderous business. An', anythin' aloft 'tis sure ta' change the way she sails.

Take care o' Brethern o' the Coast, an' Fair winds wit' Followin' seas ta' ye also.

Pirate Skipper, J/36 "Zero Tolerance"


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

You are Free to fly any novelty flag you wish, when I play pirates I prefer being one of the "good guys".


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Coincidentally, its coming up on National Talk Like a Pirate Day. The "organizers" have a website and have written a number of books on the Pirate Way. Maybe they have some suggestions for you.

The Official site for International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19


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## jgeissinger (Feb 25, 2002)

*Pirate flag*

I was at the Isthmus (Catalina) a couple of weeks ago when some under 30 ft. Cal or Columbia pulled in with a 6 ft. pirate flag flying from a halyard. My teenage son said, "Here come the drunks". He was right of course. The boat was a pile, the people on board were plastered before noon, and they generally acted like morons. Nobody else was intimidated, and certainly not impressed with their self-proclaimed "saltiness". They just viewed them like the jerks they were. However, the entertainment value was great, especially when they left the next morning with their 4 hp outboard pushing them out of the harbor with their hook-on boarding ladder dragging in the water on the side of their boat held on by just one skinny piece of line. Now, this is just one person's opinion, of course, and "I'm just sayin"", but if you want to look like you're salty, learn to care for and handle your boat; if you want to look like a drunk hillbilly, get a pirate flag.

You may now attack.


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

no one is going to attack

But I find it funny when the Judge Smails of the sailing world try to stereotype those who sport a pirate flag as hillbillies

You don't have to go to Cat Island to see drunken morons, and their boat doesn't have to be a little ol' POS, I see more drunken morons on their new ( fill in the blank ) proudly flying the red white and blue slam the dock then anyone else................or try to leave with the dock lines tied or shore power still attached, but hey, they looked dapper and didn't spill their wine


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Wheeew!...I thought he was going to say Sea Ray's for a minute.....


Any takers ??? No takers................ah shoot.....Might have to make a flower pot out of the bloody thing.


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## jgeissinger (Feb 25, 2002)

*Morons*

I really have to agree with poopdeckpappy on this one. You make a very good point. I was just ranting.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

poopdeckpappy said:


> You don't have to go to Cat Island to see drunken morons, and their boat doesn't have to be a little ol' POS, I see more drunken morons on their new ( fill in the blank ) proudly flying the red white and blue slam the dock then anyone else................or try to leave with the dock lines tied or shore power still attached, but hey, they looked dapper and didn't spill their wine


These types don't even know they are A-holes, whereas "drunken hillbillies" know it and wear it like a badge of honor. Also, wouldn't drunken hillbillies run up a Confederate Flag before a Jolly Roger (or am I just stereotyping)?


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

We have a lighted palm tree (three trunks, about 100 little bulbs) that we put on our bow for fun. We put monkeys up in the fronds and cover the base with towels and such.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Monkeys I can see. Pirates I can't, past the age of eight or ten. Kinda like when Prince Harry made the tabloids by wearing an ersatz Nazi uniform to a costume party, some folks just think it is tacky to be celebrating radically asocial behavior. 

18 USC Sec. 1651. Piracy under law of nations
Whoever, on the high seas, commits the crime of piracy as defined
by the law of nations, and is afterwards brought into or found in
the United States, shall be imprisoned for life.

Glorifying rape, robbery, plundering, and murder, just lacks any real humor for some of us. The judges don't even get a sentencing choice, just "Yes? No?" and it's over. Of course, keelhauling, tar and feathering, and riding a rail were also popular forms of the death penalty.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

hellosailor said:


> Glorifying rape, robbery, plundering, and murder, just lacks any real humor for some of us. The judges don't even get a sentencing choice, just "Yes? No?" and it's over. Of course, keelhauling, tar and feathering, and riding a rail were also popular forms of the death penalty.


That's why the only 'pirate' flag I fly says 'Show me the Booty'

We ain't talking gold here. Jewels, yes, treasure, sure, but it's all voluntary.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

chucklesR said:


> That's why the only 'pirate' flag I fly says 'Show me the Booty'
> 
> We ain't talking gold here. Jewels, yes, treasure, sure, but it's all voluntary.


Ah Chuckles,
Its usually "Surrender the Booty"


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## ronspiker (Jun 27, 2001)

Of course "Real" pirates aren't going to be stupid enough to fly a pirate flag to give you warning that they are about to cause you trouble. So anyone that thinks someone flying a pirate flag actually is one is probably not to bright anyway. 

Fly yer flag and enjoy.


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> Glorifying rape, robbery, plundering, and murder,


I really don't get the association between a novalty flag and glorifying rape, robbery, plundering, and murder, but hell, everyone is entitled to their own level of humor I guess, but ya gotta keep it in prespective.

Priates that have been dead for over 200yrs didn't corner the market on rape, robbery, plundering, and murder, if they did, I can think of a few 1st world countries who can add copy right infrigment to their list of evil doings


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Pappy, is it a novelty flag? Simply because the folks who flew it died out and their living brethren no longer fly it?

I don't get how anyone could not get the association. You fly a flag--any flag--and you endorse what that flag stands for. That's where the phrase "showing the flag" somes from. That's what flags are, after all, all about.

If you're not proud of what it stands for, you don't fly a flag. Pirate flag? Like I said, ok for kiddies who think it was all about swashbuckling. Get a little older and unbribled stealing and taking from the weak to feed the "ME ME ME" isn't funny. Oh, wait, that's right...This is the ME ME ME generation that celebrates Enron and junk mortgages with all the brokers profiting as the economy tanks.

I wonder if anyone has ever profiled the kids who wanted to play Robber instead of Cop, to find out how many of them wound up being corporate profiteers? Ergh, megasuccesses, excuse me.

But the original quedstion was about etiquette and the pirate flag, and proper etiquette for a pirate is "Whatever I damned well want it to be!"

Isn't it?


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> But the original quedstion was about etiquette and the pirate flag, and proper etiquette for a pirate is "Whatever I damned well want it to be!"
> 
> Isn't it?


Absolutely and that's it in a nut shell, it is your personal POV

My POV is some what different in that I think some, and I might even go as far as say few, take it all that seriously.

We have Sailing Clubs & Sailing Associations and Maritime Museums all putting on festivals all the time with Pirates themes; The Festival of Sails just ended here in SD, had some 20 Tall ships from all over the place here for 5 days, the theme of the Festival was ??? Pirates, a few of them will go to DP, then over to cat Island, the theme ??? priates

I quarantee ya, they and the 10's of thousands that participated in the festival are not out to glorify rape, plumder & murder, they are out to have fun and enjoy the sailing with their friends and family

So to the question of flying a pirate flag , fly it where ever you choose, to the question of etiquette, don't fly it above the Stars & Stripes when on the same staff or halyard

That's from another point of veiw of course


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

ronspiker said:


> Of course "Real" pirates aren't going to be stupid enough to fly a pirate flag to give you warning that they are about to cause you trouble. So anyone that thinks someone flying a pirate flag actually is one is probably not to bright anyway.
> 
> Fly yer flag and enjoy.


OR ARE THEY!?!?

Maybe those drunken hillbillies really are pirates and they've lulled you into complacency by flying the Jolly Roger all over the place. Now they are just waiting for the right time to strike!


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Sapperwhite said:


> OR ARE THEY!?!?
> 
> Maybe those drunken hillbillies really are pirates and they've lulled you into complacency by flying the Jolly Roger all over the place. Now they are just waiting for the right time to strike!


Don't worry until you hear the dueling banjos......then run like hell


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## mwrohde (Dec 1, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> I don't get how anyone could not get the association. You fly a flag--any flag--and you endorse what that flag stands for. That's where the phrase "showing the flag" somes from. That's what flags are, after all, all about.


Do you /really/ think that the skull and cross bones still stands for "rape, robbery, plundering, and murder"? Really? Still today? Or, maybe, does it stand for something else today than it did a few hundred years ago?


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

poopdeckpappy said:


> Don't worry until you hear the dueling banjos......then run like hell


You sure do got a purdy mouth boy!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

" Or, maybe, does it stand for something else today"
Sometimes, it just means "I have goofy nine year olds on board who need to play!"

So what flag do you fly when you moon a toll booth attendant or a bridge keeper?


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## wkwray (Aug 24, 2008)

*re*

Haha. wow. Good thing I found out that flying a jolly roger off the shrouds of my 25' Tanzer would cement me as a supporter of not only rape, murder, and theft, but also junk bonds and felonious corporate accounting! Thanks. I assumed that the fact that several US military units past and present (four squadrons of the 90th Bombardment Group of the Fifth Air Force in WWII, several USN Fighter Squadrons, including the current VFA-103, the VF-84, the VF-17, etc.) as well as the entire Royal Navy Submarine Service have adopted as their emblem would have made it apparent that the jolly roger no longer stands explicitly for rape and murder but rather for bravado tinged with lawlessness. Somebody better write all those jet pilots and perhaps the Queen of England and let them know exactly what they're getting themselves into.

I would argue that the historical connotations of the flag have been overruled by more recent usage in military and popular culture. Connotations change. The swastika was a Hindu symbol for prosperity, welfare, and luck. If you were to fly it today, people would associate it with the more recent, popularly understood use of the symbol (The Third Reich) rather than the meaning assigned to it centuries beforehand.

As to the hypothetical aspersions on my character and the assertions that I'd be seen as a 'drunk hillbilly' (by the way, you might want to double-check your epithets - hillbillies live in rural and mountainous areas and have not been spotted in boats larger than 8'), I can probably live with the occasional disapproving glance from hypersensitive yachtsmen. You'll forgive me if I don't deem it necessary to defend my reputation to you. I hope the Coast Guard and any naval vessels I encounter will hold their fire, choosing to capture rather than kill the four or five teenagers aboard the 25' bermuda rigged sloop.

Thanks for the input on black hulls/other fun accoutrement. The plank definitely seems do-able and within my limited carpentry skills. My boat is in RI so it sounds like the black hull might be ok. I might go with a dark blue or green just in case. Cannons look like fun but I might stop short of exploding munitions and stick to a mounted water balloon launcher of some sort. Thanks to whomever suggested getting another set of standing rigging - I was a little worried about messing up mine. Special credit to whoever took the painstaking time to type up 3 paragraphs in pirate speech.

Cheers. And to all of you naysayers - beware, there's a water balloon with your name on it.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Nay, I'm not the stuffed shirt type -- I have, and occasionally fly, a Jolly Roger. But out of respect for my country, I never fly it with the Stars and Stripes. Not above, not below, not abaft, not on the same vessel! I am proud of my country and it's flag, unlike certain misguided politicians and their wives. So I say, have fun, fly your Jolly Roger, walk your plank, climb your ratlines, paint your hull black! Just don't paint your deck black if you go barefoot! We need to figure out how to launch a water balloon with an authentic looking cannon!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

wkwray said:


> Haha. wow. Good thing I found out that flying a jolly roger off the shrouds of my 25' Tanzer would cement me as a supporter of not only rape, murder, and theft, but also junk bonds and felonious corporate accounting! Thanks. I assumed that the fact that several US military units past and present (four squadrons of the 90th Bombardment Group of the Fifth Air Force in WWII, several USN Fighter Squadrons, including the current VFA-103, the VF-84, the VF-17, etc.) as well as the entire Royal Navy Submarine Service have adopted as their emblem would have made it apparent that the jolly roger no longer stands explicitly for rape and murder but rather for bravado tinged with lawlessness. Somebody better write all those jet pilots and perhaps the Queen of England and let them know exactly what they're getting themselves into.
> 
> I would argue that the historical connotations of the flag have been overruled by more recent usage in military and popular culture. Connotations change. The swastika was a Hindu symbol for prosperity, welfare, and luck. If you were to fly it today, people would associate it with the more recent, popularly understood use of the symbol (The Third Reich) rather than the meaning assigned to it centuries beforehand.


good point.



> As to the hypothetical aspersions on my character and the assertions that I'd be seen as a 'drunk hillbilly' (by the way, you might want to double-check your epithets - hillbillies live in rural and mountainous areas and have not been spotted in boats larger than 8'), I can probably live with the occasional disapproving glance from hypersensitive yachtsmen. You'll forgive me if I don't deem it necessary to defend my reputation to you. I hope the Coast Guard and any naval vessels I encounter will hold their fire, choosing to capture rather than kill the four or five teenagers aboard the 25' bermuda rigged sloop.


You never met Cam... he's got a boat a bit bigger than 8' and is often described as a drunk hillbillie...   



> Thanks for the input on black hulls/other fun accoutrement. The plank definitely seems do-able and within my limited carpentry skills. My boat is in RI so it sounds like the black hull might be ok. I might go with a dark blue or green just in case. Cannons look like fun but I might stop short of exploding munitions and stick to a mounted water balloon launcher of some sort. Thanks to whomever suggested getting another set of standing rigging - I was a little worried about messing up mine. Special credit to whoever took the painstaking time to type up 3 paragraphs in pirate speech.
> 
> Cheers. And to all of you naysayers - beware, there's a water balloon with your name on it.


I like the water balloon slingshots...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

poopdeckpappy said:


> I really don't get the association between a novalty flag and glorifying rape, robbery, plundering, and murder, but hell, everyone is entitled to their own level of humor I guess, but ya gotta keep it in prespective.
> 
> Priates that have been dead for over 200yrs didn't corner the market on rape, robbery, plundering, and murder, if they did, I can think of a few 1st world countries who can add copy right infrigment to their list of evil doings


 Exactly! Have any of you ever even read history books? More than half of the pirates were privateers hired with letters of marque from various nations. murdering, sinking and taking of other nations vessels and goods.... you better take down every national flag you have.. All guilty. The uptight suits on here can fly their yacht club burgees.. i'm sure none of the members or members buisness interests would be involved in anything illegal or immoral.


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