# Docking Grappling Hook Thingy...



## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

I am looking for a docking - grappling - hook thingy that I saw being used last summer.

It's about a foot long, and has an unusual bent shape. The folks that were using it tossed it on the dock and pulled on it so that it snagged on a cleat. They then ran the line to an amidships cleat on the boat and brought the boat nicely to a halt, using it as a spring line.

I asked them about it and inspected the hook. As I remember, it was vinyl coated, had some other type of padding, and was a commercial product.

I thought it was a great idea, and would like one of my own. Foolishly, I did not write down the brand name of the device, assuming it would be easy to find on the web. I have had no luck.

I imagine I could make one, but it was obviously a carefully engineered shape, and worked real well.

Has anyone seen one of these, and if so, do you know how I might get one? 

If you've tried one, what do you think?

I appreciate your help!

Thanks,

David

P.S. This is my first new thread! I figure I was about due!


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## BreakingWind2 (Jan 3, 2008)

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.dockhooker.com/dockhooker/index.html


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

BreakingWind2 said:


> Is this what you are looking for?
> 
> http://www.dockhooker.com/dockhooker/index.html


Thanks.. That's really close, and very similar, and probably works well... But the one I saw was a slightly different shape, and vinyl coated, which I liked better...

Any others?

Thanks again!


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

djodenda said:


> Thanks.. That's really close, and very similar, and probably works well... But the one I saw was a slightly different shape, and vinyl coated, which I liked better...
> 
> Any others?
> 
> Thanks again!


You could always apply a couple of layers of heat-shrink tubing over a metal hook.....


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Faster said:


> You could always apply a couple of layers of heat-shrink tubing over a metal hook.....


Yeah.. I thought about that... I'd probably just dip it in that vinyl coating stuff.. I remember that back in the 1970s there was some green plastic stuff called "Whip End Dip" that was used for stopping the ends of natural rope from fraying.

(I preferred back splices and was pretty good at it)

Thanks, Faster, and I hope to see you up north this summer!

David


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## kms (Mar 25, 2001)

*dock hook*

This is what you are looking for.

E Z Docker

www.e-zdocker.com They are in La Conner

kms


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Hell, I can make something like that in about 15 minutes. Thanks for the idea!


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

I just can't help but think how popular your going to be when that thing you throw bounces twice on the dock and hits the side of the boat in next slip.


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

Ah, wouldnt work here. No docks I have seen have that toe-rail thingy.

Any of you guys ever use a "Happy Hooker"?


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

BreakingWind2 said:


> http://www.dockhooker.com/dockhooker/index.html


for ~$30

VS



KMS; said:


> http://www.e-zdocker.com


for ~$130

That's a no-brainer


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

dj, - don't mean to be disrespectful of your desire for easier docking, but that has got to be one of the most ridiculous devices I've seen as a crutch to docking. Why do I think that way you ask - where do I begin?


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> dj, - don't mean to be disrespectful of your desire for easier docking, but that has got to be one of the most ridiculous devices I've seen as a crutch to docking. Why do I think that way you ask - where do I begin?


No offense taken.

I frequently sail short-handed and don't have anyone willing/able to step off the boat and attach a line to a cleat. The idea of being able to stop and hold the boat with a midships spring line is attractive to me.

Other suggestions are welcome.

Teach me, Obi-Wan


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

kms said:


> This is what you are looking for.
> 
> E Z Docker
> 
> ...


kms... Thanks, that was it... For that kind of money though, it's do-it yourself time! Perhaps the $30 version with a vinyl dip is the way to go....


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

> The idea of being able to stop and hold the boat with a midships springline is attractive to me.


Approach the dock to starboard _slowly_ at a slight angle, reverse the engine and apply the paddlewheel effect to kick to stern alongside the dock, boat stops, you or your crew calmly steps off and secures the springline.

But, if none of this makes sense, then - Klaatu comes in pieces.


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## AboardIndigo (Aug 23, 2007)

In the interest of personal safety rather than being a downer, another thing I'd worry about would be...

...what happens when you come in a little hot, toss the hook, it hooks just enough to take the load, and then slips and springs back to whomever is holding the other end of the line?

Could end up being a funniest home video entry.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Am I the only one that keeps the dock lines attached to the dock?
They are kept with in easy reach and make docking a lot easier.

This is the set up we use on our HOME slip, of course out cruising and on a transient slip, its a different story.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

> Am I the only one that keeps the docklines attached to the dock?


tj,
Aside from not being able to practice docking at your own slip whenever approaching strange docks, the problem I see with that arrangement when single-handing is, the skipper is stepping off the boat with nothing in hand. Essentially, the boat is now susceptible to shifts in current, wind and alignment misjudgements.

Now what?


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I can definitely see the use for one of these.

I am always fearful that someone is going over the side while trying to help tie up, regardless of the speed. There's a video on YouTube of people screwing this up that, while funny, sends shivers down my spine every time I see it. Whenever someone new comes aboard and helps me tend the lines, I have a rule that I make them repeat: NO JUMPING FROM THE BOAT (unless you're going swimming, or are _sure_ that the torpedo will hit us). I still get anxious when I am approaching a dock, or pier, that they'll forget, especially if the wind or currents are not favorable.

If I give them this hook device, and show them how to use it, I can see this becomming a "challenge." that will keep them on the boat.

Ed


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Blue,
I don't step off the boat. I guess we are not in the norm, Our finger slip is above deck level. I can easily grab our dock lines with out stepping off the boat.


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## max-on (Mar 30, 2004)

Use The Force TB, use The Force . . .    

I could not imagine using that thing to dock the boat.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Thanks for all of your input. It's kind of fun starting a new thread/argument!

Bubb2: Yep, I'd hate to hit the next boat, but I think this is mostly a drop, instead of a toss.


True Blue: Yes, I agree that using propwalk to kick the stern alongside the dock and gracefully and calmly stepping off with the line in hand works (This is how I try to to this, but usually without grace and calm).., however, my primary application here is when I am cruising and docking on the "wrong" side, in wind and current conditions that make the boat drift a bit much to allow me to be comfortable leaving the boat unmanned while I step off. What I would like to be able to do is attach the springline while still aboard the boat, leave the engine idling in forward, and use that force to hold the boat against the dock while I attach docklines.

AboardIndigo: Ouch!.. Good point.

sailorjK1: At my home marina, I am fortunate enough to have the last uncovered slip before the covered ones. This way I can hang my lines on the structure, and easily reach over and grab them. As you said, transient slips are a different story, and that is my interest.

eherlihy: I like the distraction idea... Maybe a ball and cup toy would be better!

max-on.. What Force? THE Force? The hook thingy, or Gort's powers?

The typical docking arrangement up here, are "bull rails" which are 4X4s mounted above the edge of the dock. I do not care for them. For me it's harder to get a line around them quickly, unlike snagging the horn of a cleat.


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## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

*really?*

I am severely disappointed in all of you! When I saw the following quote, I was sure following pages would be adolescent remarks and tall tales that would entertain me during my lunch. But instead, crickets...

What has happened here?



2Gringos said:


> Any of you guys ever use a "Happy Hooker"?


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Things were going so well.....


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

*They beat us to the punch*



lbdavis said:


> I am severely disappointed in all of you! When I saw the following quote, I was sure following pages would be adolescent remarks and tall tales that would entertain me during my lunch. But instead, crickets...
> 
> What has happened here?


From _their _website:



> Many boaters let us know how they feel about their HOOKER:
> 
> Dennis says: "I've never been so satisfied with a HOOKER before."
> His wife says: "Your performance has improved since you've had your HOOKER."
> ...


I believe that says it all...


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

I can see practical usages in some scenarios - but personally I prefer using boat hooks to snag the cleat. It would seem one would have to practice a heck of a lot to get that swing just right. and if you are that close to just get it to it then the boat was probably was close enough to step off and control the boat anyways.

I kinda like this one instead as it seems a bit more practical if using a boat hook is not ones forte:










Line Shark

or










Bosco 1000


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Sure, Jody, but what if there aren't cleats, and just those *#@)(&*%# bull rails.

Now I know why you looked so sad when you asked for a boat hook and I didn't give you one... I am sorry I disappointed you!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

And here I thought all you needed to snag a cleat, was a length of docking line. Throw line, snag cleat, pull taught. Only place it doesn't work is up in British Columbia, where they seem to have an allergy to horn cleats and use nameless lumber rails instead.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

We have bollards, and the only reason I might like this is because my wife has to jump off amidships when I'm in the pilothouse, and I have to dock more or less blindly because I lose sight of the dock (or the proximity of my port side rail to it) pretty early. She literally has to jump two feet down and up to three feet out onto a two-foot wide dock with a 3/4" spring line. If we are getting blown off (a common issue), getting at least this thing on would allow me to haul us in closer until she could jump off, get the dock breast line on, and then hand me the dock lines.

We are at the end of a dock, and so we have some advantages and disadvantages to docking...a disadvantage being that you can, with the aid of fenders, use the neighbouring boat to help you skootch into your slip "manually". We have to either get it right in one, or circle around and try again, all while avoiding the stern of the Bayfield 37 aft of us, which means a hard turn to starboard at the last second.

But I can see this being less useful in our situation and more in "strange slip situations". Imagine securing this hook and line to the end of a single loop of painter's tape, just to hold it on the hook. You could reach out seven or eight feet, drop the hook behind the dock cleat, give the line a snap and the boat hook is free...and then just draw in the hook and dock line. It might be better than picking up a mooring pennant with a boat hook as well, if you've still got way on.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

You can't imagine how much amusement people will get from watching someone grapple the dock. Look, someone is just trying to make a buck from feeding on the "fear of docking". I've taught a few people how to handle their boat under power, about 45 minutes of instruction and a few hours practice is usually all thats required to banish that fear. If you watch the attached videos on pivot turns it should be apparent why most of us would consider such a device outlandish and lubberly in the extreme. How many people does it take to park a car ? and why would more than one be required to park a boat ?
No offense intended to anyone, please don't take all my rep points again.
Forward Spring Line Video


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Captain Jack Klang's dvd *Singlehanded Docking and Sail Trim* is a pretty good tutorial on the matter.

For those of you interested in the fullest levels of preperation for all eventualities and for those with an old set of breeches buoys just dieing for some exercise, I offer the following: Line Throwing Apparatus (Rocket) - Security International


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Perfect sailaway21, you could grapple a passing pick-up truck and let them pull you up to the dock with that thing.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

I wonder if it would be legal to grapple an Orca and have it pull me around?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Valiente-
"We have bollards," A BIG target like that, and she can't throw a line three feet out and over it? I dunno...Maybe if you got a couple of hundred of those magnetic Algea-X fuel gizmos and glued 'em up inside the hull, they could just pull you over to the bollard? [g]


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

THE most ridiculous device I think I've ever seen is at the attached link:
BowCatcher by NBM Designs :: Docking Made Easy


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

tb, I was thinking about that _other,_ ridiculous device when I posted in response to the lubber-"docking-grappling-hook-thingy", but couldn't recall the name.

I wholeheartedly agree.


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

lbdavis said:


> I am severely disappointed in all of you! When I saw the following quote, I was sure following pages would be adolescent remarks and tall tales that would entertain me during my lunch. But instead, crickets...
> 
> What has happened here?


I know....I gave em that great straight line....and they just kept on warbling about rubber coated hooks...

Whats the problem with docking a proper sailboat anyhow? You just use the two engines, one in each hull....


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

2Gringos said:


> Whats the problem with docking *a proper sailboat* anyhow? You just use the *two engines, one in each hull*....


Speaking of a ridiculous device . . . those two descriptions used to describe a single object, constitute a prime example of an oxymoron. 

But of course, we've grown to tolerate that POV from powerboaters.


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

If you have an internal combustion engine on your boat for the express purpose of propelling that boat through the water....it's a powerboat.

You can hang all the rags in the rigging you want, if it's got a propellor......well...

( Note: I am not going to use the obvious line about needing help to get hooked up.)


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Granted, but it's certainly more of a powerboat with TWO engines. Not knocking motorsailers, since I owned one, but 2 engines would be a deal-breaker.

Sorry for the hi-jack.


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

Hmm....so a Leopard 42, for example, is more of a powerboat than my single outboard panga....


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

A L42 is more of a powerboat than a "Proper" mono hull 42' SAILBOAT. Let's keep the analogies analogous at least.


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

I did. You said two motors was more of a powerboat than one motor. You call me a power boater. I only have one motor on my power boat. I don't have a motor on my sailboat.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I implied two engines on a s/v are closer to being a powerboat, than a single engine on a s/v. Add another hull and it's further removed from a "proper sailboat", hence the oxymoron" statement.


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

You have 1 motor between 2 boats. do the math. Thats makes you 1/2 a boater. (g)


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

I think I still own a Johnson 4 hp somewhere in New England...
But I ain't gonna worry about being called a half a boater when I am reading posts here by people who refer to themselves as sailors while talking about getting pickup trucks to tow their boats...


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

djodenda said:


> Thanks for all of your input. It's kind of fun starting a new thread/argument!
> 
> Bubb2: Yep, I'd hate to hit the next boat, but I think this is mostly a drop, instead of a toss.


I would be my thought, if you are close enough that can drop this hook and catch the opposite edge of the dock with it. Then you are close enough to step off the boat with a dock line in hand.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Blue, it was your "one of the most ridiculous" comment that reminded me of the Cowcatcher, er Bowcatcher device, I had to search the archives cause I couldn't remember what it was either.

I thought the powerboat/sailboat question was decided by the horsepower/ boatlength formula which is stated: HP>BL = powerboat, HP< BL = sailboat.
<BL ="Sailboat</p">Thus, a 45 ft. mono with a 40 hp engine is a sailboat, a 45 ft. Cat with a 50 hp. Honda outboard is a powerboat. ( you know I'm just teasing right, some of my best friends have Cats )


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

LOL... I think that learning and using proper docking technique, even singlehanding, would be a far better idea than using a crutch like the dock grapnel. Lassoing a cleat or piling isn't that difficult. Stepping off the boat without a dockline in hand is generally a bad idea, especially if singlehanding.


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## merttan (Oct 14, 2007)

*High dock yikes!*



sailortjk1 said:


> Blue,
> I don't step off the boat. I guess we are not in the norm, Our finger slip is above deck level. I can easily grab our dock lines with out stepping off the boat.


I've seen so many power and sail boats getting swamped by getting stuck beneath a high dock... Be careful on those...


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

merttan said:


> I've seen so many power and sail boats getting swamped by getting stuck beneath a high dock... Be careful on those...


We have very nice and very well protected wood pillings. Not a concern unless I really screw up!

Edit: Not to hijack the thread, but maybe some pics will help.
Seems like you guys all think I'm a flamming idiot and I need some evidence to vindicate myself.
Yes the deck is bellow the dock, there are pillings to keep the boat from going under the dock, I keep the dock lines attached to the dock, the pilling are protected by a foam product by Taloymade.
It is a very nice arrangement if you ask me.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Where's the pictures of the dock, tjk?


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

sailaway21 said:


> Where's the pictures of the dock, tjk?


Hi sway,
I hope you get to meet my daughter soon.
She is a great kid going through the typical stresses of an 18 year old.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Is that a THREAT?


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

LOL!
She does know how to push my buttons.

Loooking forward to getting in some more yard work this weekend. hope to be finished.

Should be launching soon now.
You ready to hit the water?

Let me know when I can pay you back for the help you gave us.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

heck! I'm comin' over to steal that dink out of your marina store! You 'splainin' to the cops'll be payback enuf!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

No argument from anyone on this point I notice. 


> Seems like you guys all think I'm a flamming idiot and I need some evidence to vindicate myself.


Looks like fenderboards are a good idea at your marina.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Back to the original point, I don't think the grappling hook thingy would be a bad thing to have although I'd think I'd just bend one up out of a piece of rod myself. There's probably a multitude of things one could put it to use on. I'd think it might be just about ideal for snagging the plastic packing strap on a six-pack. I am leary of the idea of using it as a spring line as the spring line should generally be your strongest line available given that you're going to be working against it with the full displacement of the vessel.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Thanks for all of your input. Really.

I'm going to buy the $30 hook thingy. I think it will help me get a line to the dock, especially our "cleat-challenged" docks in the Pacific Northwest.

I promise to be careful not to bounce the hook into any of your boats, and try not to get anyone conked on the head if the hook lets go.

I understand that some of you feel that this is "lubberly", but that's OK.. You can always avert your eyes. No offense taken. I'll leave my BBQ proudly mounted on my rail as well.

I'll let you know how things work out.

You know, the power of the Sailnet community is pretty amazing. This was my first new thread, and in only a day, I received over 1,000 reads, and over 50 replies. 

Again, I appreciate ALL of your input and am excited about the beginning of this cruising season.

David


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

David,

Didn't Jody like boat hooks, he did not ask for one last week on my boat docking at shilshoal!

Also, Don;t worry about hitting Mr Wilsons boat next to you. Read the sept 06 letter to editor from 48north about Mr Wilson online! You will get a good laugh about doing "Wilson" rumour has it, Mr Wilson has not seen this letter to editor!

Marty


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Couldn't find the letter....


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

blt2ski said:


> David,
> 
> Didn't Jody like boat hooks, he did not ask for one last week on my boat docking at shilshoal!
> 
> Marty


Yeah but you know how to dock as evident by no marring on your hull... I noted you didn't let me dock it lol


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Jody, after you spinnaker snafu, do you "REALLY" think I would let you dock the boat, at the "GAS dock no less?!?!?!?!?!

Dave,

I was off a month, oct 06
48° North - Letters
About half way down, "what is a wilson?"

Have you ever had a friend or have known someone that seemed to always have a little cloud following them when ever they headed out boating? I have such a friend. Life with Mr. Wilson is always an adventure. He recently headed out of Edmonds, WA. on his 28' sailboat, let's call it Mary, for this years "big" vacation. I started thinking about last years outing where he had to stay zipped up in his boat in the San Juan's for a solid week, due to absolutely torrential rains. Poor Mr. Wilson, his wife and friends had to delay joining up with him. But finally, the sun came out. Finally his wife and friends could join him and they could go crabbing and feast on the tasty delicacy. In anticipation, he carefully filled the bait box of his shiny new crab pot with a tempting piece of chicken, went to "the best" crabbing spot in the San Juan's, and threw his crab pot overboard, feeding out the line as the pot sank towards the bottom. Close to the end of the line Mr. Wilson tossed the float over and then watched as floated on top of the water- for a second - and then it kept on sinking, down and down and down, until the float slowly disappeared from view. In disbelief he stared after it, nothing to see now but darkness. Poor Mr. Wilson&#8230;

Pondering these memories, I decided I had better check in with Mr. Wilson to see how this year's trip was going.

Poor Mr. Wilson. He had barely left Edmonds when the impeller broke and the engine overheated. He limped into Kingston, and called "Vessel Assist" for help. Vessel Assist said if he could sail to Everett, they could work on his engine. So, he sailed to Everett with his jib. When he got there, the roller furling wouldn't work and the wind had picked up to 20 knots. The sail was flogging back and forth and caught on a piling and tore. He had to take the sail off and have it repaired.

The next day, engine repairs complete and the furler "kind of working"', he made it to Spencer's Spit in the San Juan Islands, where he proceeded to hit a rock ledge, dead on, at 5 knots. After a couple of days, and with the repairs completed at a marina on Lopez Island, Mr. Wilson, and his brave wife, headed out for a ride in the dinghy and to find some oysters. Somehow, the shear pin was snapped right off of his dinghy motor, (Might it have been that cable he clipped?). Luckily, a friendly passing boater, braving the high winds, slowly towed them back to their boat, (Was it really 2 miles away?). That was the first week.

Poor Mr. Wilson.

They are planning on staying out boating for another week together, and then Mr. Wilson will stay "boating" another 2 weeks alone. Scary huh? After ending my phone call, still shaking my head and chuckling about his tale, I received a phone call from ?Mr. Wilson's longtime friend and fellow boater, Tony.

"Doug, you won't believe this", he said. "I just did a "Wilson"! We both laughed.

Back to work with jack hammer to remove a septic tank.

Marty


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Poor "Mary" is just being used as a crabbing boat now! Of course, Wilson spent last summer in Europe, so I don't feel too sorry for him!


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## jjablonowski (Aug 13, 2007)

*DockHooker Out of Business*



BreakingWind2 said:


> Is this what you are looking for?
> 
> _(URL Link to Marine Product Group, Port Angeles, Washington.)_ The Original Dock Hooker[/url]


After sending a check with a downloaded order form, today's mail returned my check with a short note that saying, *Sorry, this company is no longer in business*.

The Web URL is still active, so I called the phone number listed, and the lady who answered said that, it's true, the firm no longer exists.
Did she know that the Web site is still active? Yes.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Reaffirms my faith in capitalism.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Oh, No! How will I continue in my lubberly ways?


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

djodenda said:


> Oh, No! How will I continue in my lubberly ways?


Replace whatever with Vaseline and you can continue to be as luberly as you like


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## jjablonowski (Aug 13, 2007)

*$1.88 Rafter Hanger*

After seeing the original post here, and after checking out the EZ Docker video ( The EZ Docker - Great for Boats Almost Any Size! ), I decided something like this would be handy to have available. I like the idea of not having to step off the boat until at least one line is fast to the dock.

But after deeming the $117.99 EZ Docker a little pricey for my (occasional) use, and after discovering that the $29.99 Dockhooker (The Original Dock Hooker) no longer is sold by its designer, I decided to go the DIY route.

Home Depot sells the *Everbilt Heavy Duty Rafter Hanger for $1.88 *(in the fasteners aisle). It's designed to hang from two-by dimensional lumber and to tuck planks, etc., up into your garage/attic ceiling. It's 3/8-in. dia steel, shaped like a squarish "S" and 8 in. long overall. It's also covered (halfway) with PVC.

After 5 minutes with a benchtop vise and some large wrenches for leverage, the smaller top of the "S" is now closed into a loop to which I fastened a poly heaving line. Okay, it's not stainless, and it's rated for a safe working load of a mere 50 lb. (about the limit that I want to haul in by hand, anyway). But it...

Works Great!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

What, no photos.... if you're jury-rigging stuff... you gotta post photos...


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## jjablonowski (Aug 13, 2007)

Camera not avail. Looks just like the Dockhooker (URL above) but instead of a circular eye it has a triangular one.


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## jjablonowski (Aug 13, 2007)

*Jury rigged dock grapnel*

Here's the pic. Bent from rafter hook from Home Depot, mentioned above.


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