# Heavenly twins or Oceanic 30 catamaran?



## Liverpoold

Hi All,
I could do with some advice about buying a catamaran. I am very much a begginning sailor, booked in to do RYA DAy skipper (theory and practical). Planning to buy a Cat (have mooring), initally to stay on weekends and eventually to liveaboard and cruise about (UK and Europe).
I have a three year old daughter (single Mum).
There are two boats I am thinking about for similar prices (about 15K) one is a heavenly twins (26ft) good condition, twin diesal engines, survey from 03. THe other is an Oceanic 30, Marine ply, also pretty good condition, twin diesal engines. Planning to get a survey done before purchase.
Any thoughts/Advice?
Thanks!
Selina


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## sailingdog

The Heavenly Twins is a very good boat, and fairly seaworthy. I know two owners of them, and they've always had good things to say about the boat. I haven't heard of the Oceanic 30.


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## MileHigh

Hello Selina,

The Oceanic 30 is the boat that Rosie Swale
sailed all over the world in with her husband
and two children, both under 3 years old.
The story of their journey is the book:

"Children of Cape Horn"
by Rosie Swale

I am currently studying for my Basic
Coastal Cruising Certificate from the ASA.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Cheers,
Bill


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## gallic

*Good and bad*

Hi Selina,

Not sure if you've made your choice yet between the Heavenly Twins and the Oceanic. 
I looked into buying an Oceanic years ago when I was buying my own cat but unfortunately, had to discount it then on price.The Oceanic is one of the all-time great cats, with built in safety and stability. It was designed by Bill O'Brian back in the 60s and he sailed his around the world without a hitch, as did Rosie Swale. You don't get much better recommendation than that.

Sadly, time is probably going to be the biggest problem with the Oceanic now as the very newest ones are likely to be around 25 years old. The HTs will only be a little newer now too.

The Heavenly Twins are great, stable cats, ideal for safe cruising but are a good bit smaller than the Oceanic for lie-aboard life. They've also achieved some really amazing voyages.

Both cats have larger versions - some Oceanics were built to 33' and maybe 36' too and the HTs were modernised as the Summer Twins at 27'.

Whichever you choose, get a full survey done and have the engine(s) checked thoroughly as any repair costs will mount up.

Best regards,
David


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## TSOJOURNER

hi Selina,Ive been living on board an Oceanic 30 for 18 years. I guess that makes my views on the boat prejudiced but qualified. The vessel is safe and solid, mine is GRP, I still have the original Volvo engines and the living space has to be experienced to be appreciated. The ply originals were built for the first 14 or 15 off and were superceded by glass, I have sail No 49 built in 1970 and have never regretted the purchase. Sailing can be slowısh to windward but an engine will push it through most weather with reefed main, stsl n yankee. I have most of Bill Obriens specs for the boat and can send by snail mail if it will help you make up your mind. Ken


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## sailingdog

Cat10m-

Doubt it much matters, as Selina's post is over two years old and she hasn't been back since by the looks of it. Please check dates before replying to a DEAD THREAD. 

Also, recommend you read the POST in my signature to help you get the most out of sailnet. Welcome to the Asylum.


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## charliemagen

cat10m said:


> hi Selina,Ive been living on board an Oceanic 30 for 18 years. I guess that makes my views on the boat prejudiced but qualified. The vessel is safe and solid, mine is GRP, I still have the original Volvo engines and the living space has to be experienced to be appreciated. The ply originals were built for the first 14 or 15 off and were superceded by glass, I have sail No 49 built in 1970 and have never regretted the purchase. Sailing can be slowısh to windward but an engine will push it through most weather with reefed main, stsl n yankee. I have most of Bill Obriens specs for the boat and can send by snail mail if it will help you make up your mind. Ken


Hi Ken,
during my search for a family cat in the range of +/- 25000 EUR I found the Oceanic 30 Mk3 could fit our needs, but there are almost no informations on this boat available over here in Germany besides the book "Children of Cape Horn" - and the descriptions of two offers in the mediterranean area.
I do not want to appear obtrusive at all, but if you could send me the specs you offered above you would do me a greaeaeat favour and do a devine service to a sailing-a-cat-sick family 
Would you send me pm? Then I could give you my address - of course I will give you back the expenses!
Tanks and kind regards from Hamburg, Charlie (P.S. Sorry, I wanted to send you a pm, but I'm not allowed yet, as I'm a greenhorn in this forum


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## mrwuffles

That was his only post and he hasn't been active since, good luck on your search for specs and welcome to sailnet.


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## charliemagen

@ djeeke: Sorry, I am still a newie and cannot reply your pm as I had less than 5 postings - so on this way:



djeeke said:


> Hello Charlie,
> 
> Have you been able to get a response from Ken (cat10m) regarding the specifications of the Oceanic ?
> 
> Have you found your boat yet ?
> 
> I am also trying to get information on the Oceanic as an Italian friend of mine refurbished one and is thinking of starting an Oceanic (or Bill O'Brien) owners club (interesting to exchange information and ideas on these boats) and obviously this documentation might come in handy...
> 
> Should you have queries about this boat (or another one for that matter) I can try to provide some answers...
> 
> Kind regards,
> Djeeke.


Hi Djeeke,

what a surprise to recieve your mail after so long! - No, Ken has not answered and there was the information that was his only posting.
Meanwhile I have got some technical informations in the www but no contacts with owners besides of a kind man in Swizerland who sold his Oc. Mk3 in France, but he did not sail it once because of his health situation during refurbishing her.
Kind regards to your friend and best wishes for his project. If it runs please let me know!
I have not bought a boat yet because my family still has time space for decision - we will go to greece for a charter tour on a Catalac 9 next autumn, then the final decision will be made.
Thanks for your interest!

Kind regards, Charlie

P.S. If somebody knows people who own or have owned an Oceanic 30, I would be grateful for a contact! Thanks!!


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## TropicCat

If the Oceanic rings your bell, you should have a look at the Catalac 9M.

Catalacs were manufactured by Tom Lack who worked with O'Brien when he designed the Oceanic. Later Tony Smith (Performance Cruising) joined them, which is the reason Bobcats, Catalacs, Oceanics, and Geminis all have similar interior layouts. 

I'm pretty sure that it's still accurate to say that these three men are responsible for the majority of all cruising catamarans now sailing.

Just a thought.


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## sailingdog

The Iroquois is another of the small cruising catamarans that should be listed alongside the Heavenly Twins, Bobcats, Oceanics, Catalacs, and Geminis. All of these were/are very capable pocket cruising catamarans.


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## charliemagen

Thanks for your Ideas; to complete the list the Aristocat should be menshioned as similar to the Catalac 9.
The reason for my interest in the Oceanic 30 (MkII/III) is as the "bed-division" is more walled off (two doubles in the front bridgedeck; I'm tired from training my kids to tidyness also in vacation ) than on Catalacs and Aristocats - and of course its safeness (see Rosie Swale's "Children of Cape Horn").
Heavenly Twins let miss the dance floor astern.
And finally the Iroquois is a comparatively good performing sailor, but has very "sporty" interior and bunks.

Another solution would be a Solaris 42, if my rain of gold coins should increase one day...:laugher


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## sailingdog

If you get a rain of gold coins, I'd recommend the Chris White Atlantic series of catamarans instead. They're very sensibly designed, with the cockpit forward of the pilothouse, for good visibility and access to sail controls. Have dual helm stations, one in the pilot house and one in the cockpit, which means you can steer from a very sheltered position in bad weather.


charliemagen said:


> Thanks for your Ideas; to complete the list the Aristocat should be menshioned as similar to the Catalac 9.
> The reason for my interest in the Oceanic 30 (MkII/III) is as the "bed-division" is more walled off (two doubles in the front bridgedeck; I'm tired from training my kids to tidyness also in vacation ) than on Catalacs and Aristocats - and of course its safeness (see Rosie Swale's "Children of Cape Horn").
> Heavenly Twins let miss the dance floor astern.
> And finally the Iroquois is a comparatively good performing sailor, but has very "sporty" interior and bunks.
> 
> Another solution would be a Solaris 42, if my rain of gold coins should increase one day...:laugher


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## TropicCat

charliemagen said:


> Thanks for your Ideas; to complete the list the Aristocat should be menshioned as similar to the Catalac 9.
> The reason for my interest in the Oceanic 30 (MkII/III) is as the "bed-division" is more walled off (two doubles in the front bridgedeck; .......


The 9M has a solid wall between staterooms. Follow the link in my sig to the Catalac USA website and go to the Catalac 9M page where you'll find specs, layouts and a video.


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## TropicCat

sailingdog said:


> If you get a rain of gold coins,.....


Dog, you'd need more than a 'rain' of gold coins!! Maybe a hurricane?


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## charliemagen

Umpf, Dog, this kinda rain would suffocate me - I cant think in those pecuniary dimensions - just missing a little o in my purse...

Yes, TC, I know, but it should be a double so that the space aft is free for the record player  (see dance floor astern).


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## charliemagen

P.S. And another thing is headrom; I'm 1,90 long and my older Boy could be even more next year.
That's why several boats i.e. a Prout Quest 31 would not fit...


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## TropicCat

what's 6' 5" in cm?


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## charliemagen

Should be about 195 cm. But not the Quest 31 I have been on, If you mean that? She has less than 190. Catalac 9 and Snowgoose are high enough for me.


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## RXBOT

Sailing Dog advise you read your post #6 this thread as this thread is 6 years old.


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## TropicCat

RXBOT said:


> Sailing Dog advise you read your post #6 this thread as this thread is 6 years old.


I thing Sailingdog is doing just fine. Heck I'm answering the questions posted here too.

Since charliemagen is now asking the questions, and seems to be appreciative of the replies I would imagine it's a revived rather than a dead thread. At least I hope it is, or it means I need new glasses ...... LOL.


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## sailingdog

Might want to learn to count, as this thread was started in 2006, meaning that it is not quite FOUR years old. Also, posts are mostly on topic and relevant... which is generally not the case with people resurrecting dead threads...


RXBOT said:


> Sailing Dog advise you read your post #6 this thread as this thread is 6 years old.


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## charliemagen

sailingdog said:


> ...Also, posts are mostly on topic and relevant... which is generally not the case with people resurrecting dead threads...


??? Sorry for my irrelevant postings in this forum. RIP


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## LookingForCruiser

sailingdog said:


> The Iroquois is another of the small cruising catamarans that should be listed alongside the Heavenly Twins, Bobcats, Oceanics, Catalacs, and Geminis. All of these were/are very capable pocket cruising catamarans.


One thing I found when shopping for my own older, smaller catamaran, is that there really isn't much inventory out there (with the exception of Gemini's). For the non-Gemini cats, not a lot were made, so it's not like going out there and looking for a Catalina or Beneteau. You have to check out the inventory and select from what's there, and probably have to go a fair distance to get the boat as well. If you're looking for a particular model in a particular condition in a particular location, you will be waiting for a very very long time.


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## sailingdog

charliemagen said:


> ??? Sorry for my irrelevant postings in this forum. RIP


Wasn't referring to you.


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## bljones

sailingdog said:


> Might want to learn to count, as this thread was started in 2006, meaning that it is not quite FOUR years old. Also, posts are mostly on topic and relevant... which is generally not the case with people resurrecting dead threads...


Oh suuuuuuuuuuure, if the topic of this thread had been about a proper heeling sailboat, some tricycle riding canine would have been all over the gravedigger.


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## sailingdog

What... are you saying I'm biased in favor of multihulls??? How dare you??? You leadmine sailing swine... :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher



bljones said:


> Oh suuuuuuuuuuure, if the topic of this thread had been about a proper heeling sailboat, some tricycle riding canine would have been all over the gravedigger.


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## TropicCat

charliemagen said:


> Should be about 195 cm. But not the Quest 31 I have been on, If you mean that? She has less than 190. Catalac 9 and Snowgoose are high enough for me.


Remember, the Catalac 8M and the 9M are built on the same hulls and have the same LWL as well as bridge deck clearance (I've never had a slamming issue with my 8m). The cabin layout of the Catalac 9M is superior, yet reduces the size of the cockpit as a result of the larger cabin.


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## TropicCat

LookingForCruiser said:


> One thing I found when shopping for my own older, smaller catamaran, is that there really isn't much inventory out there (with the exception of Gemini's). For the non-Gemini cats, not a lot were made, so it's not like going out there and looking for a Catalina or Beneteau. You have to check out the inventory and select from what's there, and probably have to go a fair distance to get the boat as well. If you're looking for a particular model in a particular condition in a particular location, you will be waiting for a very very long time.


It took me a year to find my boat. Smaller Cruising Catamarans, which are in good condition, are really difficult to find as their price point puts them in range of all those monohull guys who's admirals have ordered them to 'upgrade'


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## TropicCat

sailingdog said:


> What... are you saying I'm biased in favor of multihulls??? How dare you??? You leadmine sailing swine... :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher


Awe..come on Sailingdog, isn't this 'be kind to 1/2 boat guys' week? Besides, if a mono guy is reading this thread it must mean either his admiral has ordered him to find a multihull .... or he finally figured out that most women won't stay with a guy sailing a 'leaner'.


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## bljones

or we're slumming it.


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## TropicCat

or even stepping up in class


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## sailingdog

I don't think there's any place bad enough for BLJ to be slumming it... :laugher :laugher :laugher


bljones said:


> or we're slumming it.


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## bljones

but this comes close, SD. pass me that bottle of Thunderbird, will ya?


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## TropicCat

I dunno SD, I've seen cases where long periods of time at a 15 degree angle was detrimental to the creation of new brain cells. 

I think we're just observing a classic case of multihull envy.


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## bljones

It takes two of you, with five hulls between you, to spar with me? Does that make you slower witted than a leadminer, or just unionized? Are multihull owners the Teamsters of the sailing world?

Q. How many multihull owners does it take to insult a heeler?
A. Two. Gotta problem wit dat?


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## TropicCat

This is what you call sparring? Sheesh.... you wouldn't last a day at my marina 

Let us know when you're ready to trade that lead mine in for a real boat.


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## bljones

I was being generous to the five of you. And a little condescending. That is what one does when one is slumming.


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## TropicCat

LOL ... well, maybe we can arrange a loan so you can upgrade. It appears all you mono guys who can afford a multihull, already have


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## sailingdog

You can't slum up... we're slumming just talking to ya... :laugher :laugher :laugher


bljones said:


> I was being generous to the five of you. And a little condescending. That is what one does when one is slumming.


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## bljones

if you can't slum up, sd, then by talking to me you are accomplishing the impossible. maybe you can tack a catalac without resorting to the iron genny next!


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## sailingdog

You'd have to talk to TC about that... my boat tacks just fine.


bljones said:


> if you can't slum up, sd, then by talking to me you are accomplishing the impossible. maybe you can tack a catalac without resorting to the iron genny next!


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## djeeke

LookingForCruiser said:


> One thing I found when shopping for my own older, smaller catamaran, is that there really isn't much inventory out there (with the exception of Gemini's).
> If you're looking for a particular model in a particular condition in a particular location, you will be waiting for a very very long time.


Depends where you are....
Not much Gemini's in Europe, however a fair choice of Catalacs some Iroquois, and some HT's.
Bobcat, Oceanic, Aristocat and so on, don't see many of them either...

I kinda dropped the Oceanic of my list although I know of one which seems in good condition. Unfortunately, it seems they just can't sail to windward, Catalacs seem to do a lot better in that area... (so I've been told, anybody to contradict me on this one  )

And yes, if you want a specific one, you might have to wait for a long long time..

As for me, I might be off visiting a Kelsall Suncat 30 soon, nearly impossible to find information on these boats...


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## sailingdog

*Kelsall is still in business IIRC.*


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## TropicCat

Dieter.... still looking? How about a nice Hirondelle Family 2?

Catamarans for sale

I thought you bought a boat already??? You have to be a small cruising catamaran expert by now!!


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## djeeke

sailingdog said:


> *Kelsall is still in business IIRC.*


I know, I've been in contact with both Derek and his son Liam, both very nice guys apparently...

What I meant was opinions from other than the designer, like owners or reviews... I think that the boat will sail fine, it's a light boat (sandwich - polyester construction), does not have daggerboards or centerboards but should still be able to point well...



TropicCat said:


> Dieter.... still looking? How about a nice Hirondelle Family 2?
> 
> I thought you bought a boat already??? You have to be a small cruising catamaran expert by now!!


Yes...
Still looking, I have considered and gathered some info on many boats indeed... (lots are unsuitable just because of my cruising intentions...)

The Hirondelle ! Yes, I saw that one listed for sale... And she looks neat ! 
A tid bit small as I would like to sail the boat back to Europe at some point 

I think the Hirondelle is a great little boat, but I just happen to have my requirements and a limited budget, these don't go well together so I am looking for that one specific boat that will suit my needs and fit in the budget. No way I will take a loan to buy a boat, once I get one I hope to be off when I can cruising meaning zero income and lots of expenses, no way pay back on a loan :laugher

So yes if you ever need info on an older small cat I might have some info on it or possibly point out where to get some...


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## kulokoo

I know this is an old thread, but I see there are a bunch of cats here, so I ask your multi-hull minds about the a Iroquois 30.

There's a Iroquois 30 MKII around town for sale - I know nothing about cats, really - what's your take on reasonable expectations of its use?

If you were sailing it, would you be comfortable...

Liveaboard?
Local offshore cruising?
Big offshore downwind run (e.g. SF to Hawaii)?
Tough upwind sailing?
Cruise the oceans?
Cape Horn?

I've not found a review of this sailboat for some reason, so I am curious what it can do. I should not even be thinking about this, not sure I'd be allowed back in church if they heard I had more than one hull.


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## TropicCat

An Iroquois 30 has a pivoting centerboard and goes to weather just fine. They're an older design of 1960's vintage and are very capable, but it depends what condition you find the boat. She's a little on the small side to circumnavigate, yet some have done it in decades past.


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## thesnort

Iroquois have been known to trip over themselves and assume an upside down position. On another site, you can find a candid opinion of them by the multihull designer Richard Woods. Apart from a few turning over though, they seem to have a good reputation for sailing and can go better to windward with the use of their daggerboards.
For liveaboard, they seem very cramped to me. Once you've experienced standing headroom on a cruising catamaran, it's very hard to settle for munchkin accommodations on smaller boats.
I think the Seawind 1000XL is the ultimate boat in the under 200K range. Since you're in the area, you can check out the one in Alameda. It's worth seeing for comparison's sake, at least.
As a disclaimer, I have nothing to do with the Seawind other than wanting to purchase it myself. It's just a wee bit out of my budget range, unfortunately.


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## TropicCat

The Seawind 1000XL is a very good boat which compares favorably to the Mahe 36. The Seawind is faster and the Mahe with her twin diesels a better cruiser. However, both of these boats are 10x the price of the aforementioned catamarans in this thread. It's sort of like recommending a Ferrari to a KIA inquiry. 

As to the Iroquois tripping. Yes they do, but no more than any other Cat of her size with boards in the water. You have to sail small center board or dagger board cats with an eye always on wind gusts.


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## sailingdog

It'd be nice if had a clue what you were talking about. The Iroquois have centerboards, not daggerboards. Yes, some have capsized, but it wasn't because the "tripped" over themselves. The Iroquois catamarans, like the Geminis, are a fairly narrow catamaran design. Sailed wrong, they are capable of being capsized...but that is probably true of any multihull.

While I think the Seawind 1000XL is a nice boat, it does have some serious design issues IMHO.

First, it is outboard powered. This means that you don't have the options that an inboard diesel would offer-a high-output alternator, watermaking, hot water heating, etc. It is also a bit underpowered IMHO, since it comes with dual 9.9 HP engines.

The fact that the salon is normally open to the cockpit means that any wave pooping the boat is going to cause huge problems. It also isolates the two hulls from the salon very noticeably. This means that someone cooking in the galley is pretty much unable to participate in conversation with their guests.

The helm position on the boats isn't ideal either...and having dual helms on a catamaran this small



thesnort said:


> Iroquois have been known to trip over themselves and assume an upside down position. On another site, you can find a candid opinion of them by the multihull designer Richard Woods. Apart from a few turning over though, they seem to have a good reputation for sailing and can go better to windward with the use of their daggerboards.
> For liveaboard, they seem very cramped to me. Once you've experienced standing headroom on a cruising catamaran, it's very hard to settle for munchkin accommodations on smaller boats.
> I think the Seawind 1000XL is the ultimate boat in the under 200K range. Since you're in the area, you can check out the one in Alameda. It's worth seeing for comparison's sake, at least.
> As a disclaimer, I have nothing to do with the Seawind other than wanting to purchase it myself. It's just a wee bit out of my budget range, unfortunately.


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## LookingForCruiser

kulokoo said:


> I know this is an old thread, but I see there are a bunch of cats here, so I ask your multi-hull minds about the a Iroquois 30.
> 
> There's a Iroquois 30 MKII around town for sale - I know nothing about cats, really - what's your take on reasonable expectations of its use?


Hi kulokoo,

I own an Iroquois MkII, so I'll take a stab at answering your questions:

Liveaboard? - I'd want something with standing headroom in the salon. But plenty of people liveaboard on small monohulls, so it's probably a matter of taste.

Local offshore cruising? - Sure, go for it, absolutely

Big offshore downwind run (e.g. SF to Hawaii)? - Maybe. They sailed over from England to get to the US. You need to know how to sail it correctly, they are more prone to capsize than modern behemoth catamarans. You will also want to ensure the centerboard cases are reinforced properly, they are a weak point. The tankage is very limited as well, and the outboard isn't much use in big seas.

Tough upwind sailing? - Sure, points pretty well. This stresses the centerboard cases, make sure they are reinforced

Cruise the oceans? People have done circumnavigations & extended cruising in an Iroquois. I personally wouldn't, too much like roughing it. Towards the tail end of the circumnavigations people have run into problems with the boat as well, the cabin top began to separate on one, on others the centerboard cases have failed dramatically.

Cape Horn? - No no no no no.

Don't let my warnings about the various failures after year-long circumnavigations stop you from buying one. After all, I bought one despite such stories. The boats are 40 years old at this point, and that's 40 years of stress on the hulls. I'm going through and redoing a bunch of tabbing on my bulkheads, repairing rotting bulkheads, replacing & reinforcing the windows, etc. It will end up being as strong as it was when first built.

Fiberglass doesn't last forever unmaintained, but you can get the boat back into good shape with a lot of elbow grease (and a certain amount of cash).


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## djeeke

Hi kulokoo,

I have been looking for about two years before (just now) settling on a cruising cat in my budget, the Iroquois were part of the first boats I visited...
To me they have a lot going for them but the extended cruising aspect in my future plans made me discard them as an option.

Reason? NO, not the stories on weak points or capsizing... A boat can be well prepared and a sailor can be trained... But as already mentioned the interior is on the smallish side, I can live with no standing room in the salon but there is not really a dual sized berth is this boat... Only what I would call 1.5x, that's no good if you wanna sleep in the same bed as the Mrs ;-)

Size is indeed dependent on what you want to settle with, yes they do have their weaker points but all boats do, there is an Iroquois owners group that can help on specific things.

Apart from this, yes they seem to be excellent sailers, be it that you need to be aware of the boat's limitations. The centerboards perform their function limiting leeway very well to allow sailing upwind but are also the reason for the capsizes, they allow the tripping of the boat if pushed hard or if a sudden gust suprises you... so when it gets tough, reef and raise the board(s)... (think like a multihuller, max wind speed, not medium wind speed, the boat does not heel to spill excess wind, it accelerates...) 

As for being underpowered with a single outboard engine, I've seen Iroquois with dual outboards fitted... I've seen Iroquois with dual inboards... I think a lot is possible...

Circumnavigating? Look for the 'voyage of the Alleda' story, this guy has documented his trip around the world in his Iroquois... 

Welcome to the Multihull world,


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## thesnort

My bad. I wrote daggerboard instead of centerboard. I'm clueless.


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## djeeke

thesnort said:


> I wrote daggerboard instead of centerboard.


Both perform the same function, daggerboards tend to be easier built (no pivoting points) but stick out of the deck. Some boats have centerboards completely inside a centerboard box, on the Iroquois you can see the board on deck...
It just allows for a smoother hull design (and less draft), the board being used to counteract leeway...
Forgot to mention, there are some Iroquois which have had the boards removed and some LAR keels were installed...


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## thesnort

There's a Cherokee 35 in Texas for sale that might give you what you're looking for. Like Iroquois, they were also made by SailCraft of England.


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## LookingForCruiser

djeeke said:


> The centerboards perform their function limiting leeway very well to allow sailing upwind but are also the reason for the capsizes, they allow the tripping of the boat if pushed hard or if a sudden gust suprises you... so when it gets tough, reef and raise the board(s)...


Raise the leeward board. That's the one you trip on. The windward board is OK down. You can point very well on just one board, it's not a big deal.



djeeke said:


> As for being underpowered with a single outboard engine, I've seen Iroquois with dual outboards fitted... I've seen Iroquois with dual inboards... I think a lot is possible...


You can reach hull speed with a not-very-large outboard, I think I get close with my 15hp Honda. Dual is overkill in my opinion. The problem I have had with the outboard is not power, it's that in chop, the prop comes out of the water too often. It could be a problem particular to my boat though, other boats may have their outboards mounted lower.

The MkIIa had the dual inboards, I don't know of anybody who still has them though. I think a lot of owners got rid of them due to weight issues.

There is an active Yahoo mailing list for Iroquois owners if you want more opinions, Iroquois Cats: Iroquois Catamarans That is my boat on the front page (photo was taken years before I bought it, and is reversed for some reason - the name back then was Errant, not tnarrE). I'd love to know where the bow pulpit and eyebrow on the cabin top ended up... they are long gone off my boat...

There's also the Iroquois Owners Association web site, but the IOA is UK-based and pretty much defunct, as far as I can tell. The old newsletters archived there are a great resource though. Iroquois Owner's Association



djeeke said:


> Forgot to mention, there are some Iroquois which have had the boards removed and some LAR keels were installed...


I'm not 100% certain, but I believe the people who've done the conversions have complained about loss of pointing ability.


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## sailingdog

I'd point out that the main reason to have dual outboards or engines is manueverability. However, many single engine boats have the engine steerable and that can go a long way to making up for the lack of dual engines. 

The main difference between centerboards and daggerboards are:

Centerboards are often designed to kick up in case of an impact when going forwards—daggerboards will often damage the daggerboard trunk in the case of a hard grounding.

Centerboards can be adjusted to change the CLR slightly, which can make balancing the boat easier.

Daggerboards fill the slot when fully lowered and will generally cause less drag than a centerboard, which is why most high performance multihulls have daggerboards.


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## TropicCat

djeeke said:


> Both perform the same function, daggerboards tend to be easier built (no pivoting points) but stick out of the deck. Some boats have centerboards completely inside a centerboard box, on the Iroquois you can see the board on deck...
> It just allows for a smoother hull design (and less draft), the board being used to counteract leeway...
> Forgot to mention, there are some Iroquois which have had the boards removed and some LAR keels were installed...


Djeeke is somewhat of an expert on small cats as he was vigorously pursuing a boat purchase and over 2 years has probably looked at more boats than anyone I know.

Good luck with your new Catalac 8M my friend !! And check your email!!


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## Mayl

Hi all.
I know this is an old and dead threat, but I've just arrived to the "Bill O'Brien Oceanic catamaran's world", and all the information and the forums that I've found by now are like this: dead. So I have to try...

I've just bought an Oceanic Mark III, "the number 78" (almost the last one built) and I would like to contact with another owners and share the experiences with this boat.

Thanks.


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## Belo30

cat10m said:


> hi Selina,Ive been living on board an Oceanic 30 for 18 years. I guess that makes my views on the boat prejudiced but qualified. The vessel is safe and solid, mine is GRP, I still have the original Volvo engines and the living space has to be experienced to be appreciated. The ply originals were built for the first 14 or 15 off and were superceded by glass, I have sail No 49 built in 1970 and have never regretted the purchase. Sailing can be slowısh to windward but an engine will push it through most weather with reefed main, stsl n yankee. I have most of Bill Obriens specs for the boat and can send by snail mail if it will help you make up your mind. Ken


CAT 10 do you still have the specs for Oceanic 30?


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## dave whichello

RXBOT said:


> Sailing Dog advise you read your post #6 this thread as this thread is 6 years old.


I know this is an old thread but it may still be of interest to some. There is an Oceanic which is charterable from Nidri in Lefcas Greece. The owner is a lovely chap who is selling the boat either by shares or complete. It is above my budget but may suit others. Also very cat sick. Dave


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