# I hate weather mark



## JoCoSailor (Dec 7, 2015)

This is my third season of racing my Buccaneer. My boat is the fastest boat in the fleet. So in real time (no HC applied), I’ve been doing pretty well until the last couple of races. I’m having all kind of problems getting around the weather mark. I swear there’s a wind shift every time I get within a boat length or two. In talking to one of the other racers. He suggests I’m “aiming” too much for the mark and getting to irons when I reach the mark. I bet he’s right. Google search returned lots of “advanced tips” about when to tack, getting on an SB tack. Does anyone have thoughts or a resource about just having the right line or approach to the weather mark?

TIA
Lew


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Could be the perfect time to scout around for an Olympic racer and drag him out on your boat.
I think Sailing 101 instruction is BS but it sounds like you could do with a real pro looking over your shoulder just for 1 race. 

There's places where races are lost, the start by those who are not at hull speed when the gun goes... And the windward mark. The crew concentrating on the spinnaker hoist and all of a sudden your doing rings around the mark.

If you can find someone to help, get out an hour early and practice. 🙂


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I picked up this book about a year and a half ago. I found it really helped me with my strategy.

https://books.google.ca/books/about/Winning_Isn_t_Luck.html?id=6TUgDAAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y&hl=en

You could also watch the guy thats beating you and see what hes doing different.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Arcb said:


> You could also watch the guy thats beating you and see what hes doing different.


Lol that's his problem. He's scratch boat. He can't cheat by watching the guy in front! :grin


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

I would try to be a little high of the mark on my last tack. Stay up as you approach the mark and 'put some money in the bank' in case there is a late shift. Don't try to get to the mark and whip the boat round it. Make a nice smooth turn around the mark and keep the speed up.

Good luck,
Barry


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Maybe you need a sighting mark on your boat so when you look you know when you've achieved the correct tacking angle. 

Tie a bit of wool or string on the life line, sit in a standard helming position. Tack. If u miss the mark move the string fore or aft a bit.
Repeat. 
When it's set for both tacks replace the string with a bit of electrical tape. 

Then in different currents you can aim off a bit. 


:svoilier:


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

OK that idea won't work on your boat. Lol.

I just googled Buccaneer 18.

Still the same idea... But put a line electrical tape at your side. So when u are about to tack look down and see if you can use that line to aim.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

One thing you can do is keep your last tack till you are much closer to the mark. If you are less than 50 yards or so it's easy to as BarryL say's "put money in the bank." If you make the last tack 100+ yards out you risk two things putting too much "money in the bank" making you sail too far or not putting enough money in the bank and either pinching (sailing slow) or needing to crash tack twice at the mark to make it.

Being the scratch boat, you should be the first around the mark, at worst case you might only have one or two boats to contend with at the weather mark lay line. Keep your port tack run to the lay line in just as close as needed to prep for spinnaker if you fly one, if not just far enough to get boat speed up for accelerating and rounding the mark. The closer you are to the lay line on you last tack the less likely a wind shift will cause you to need to pinch or to double tack.


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## jeremiahblatz3 (Jul 3, 2018)

I race on the Hudson in NYC, so I feel your pain. We've got currents up to 4 knots and it's shifty like a lake. Three things:

* You need to know your tacking angles. Not you're boat's ideal tacking angles, but your angles with your skill, your crew, your sails, your bottom, and your wind strength.
* You need to know what the wind is doing on your way to the mark. 
* Since you're not going to know the first two, leave yourself a little leeway.

Remember that you only *really* need to be on the layline when you get to the 3 boat length circle, so if you know that you tend to be a little short, try to overstand a bit and then adjust as you approach.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

No one has suggested sight-lines drawn on deck yet. A piece of tape or a wax pencil or Sharpie can be used to mark a line at 90º (abeam) of the boat on both sides of the cockpit. A couple of shorter lines angled fore & aft 45º might help too, to give you perspective on crossing situations. Don't tack until the mark lines up abeam. (Of course adjust for any current- tack a little later if it's pushing you down, tack a little sooner if it's pushing you up.) Hope it helps.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

paulk said:


> No one has suggested sight-lines drawn on deck yet.


Oi! I did!

Much better idea than giving more room. :wink


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## Hudsonian (Apr 3, 2008)

Approach the weather mark on port tack 200' from the port layline, overstand the starboard layline by two boat lengths, tack onto starboard.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Oi! I did!
> 
> Much better idea than giving more room. :wink


 Re-reading, I see that you did mention it, but it got lost with the talk about wool on the lifelines. How to lay out a line, rather than simply a mark, wasn't made clear for a neophyte.


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## JoCoSailor (Dec 7, 2015)

THANKS for all the replies. Some lights have come on in my mind. No racing here this weekend. So I hope to put some lines on my boat & get out and practice.

Lew


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## JoCoSailor (Dec 7, 2015)

So such is life....winds this weekend very light and shifting. RC was not able to set a true weather mark. I did make every mark so I'll that as a win. Sucked that I lost the lead to a laser and a force 5 every time wind dropped to almost nothing...any tips to help with that???


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

JoCoSailor said:


> So such is life....winds this weekend very light and shifting. RC was not able to set a true weather mark. I did make every mark so that was a win all take. Sucked that I lost the lead to a laser and a force 5 every time wind dropped to almost nothing...any tips to help with that???


Get a laser or a force 5 for light wind days.


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## JoCoSailor (Dec 7, 2015)

While I'm asking questions about rounding marks. At the mark in the diagram below, I'm the Bucc and the guy in Laser starts letting me know he is close to having overlap and that as soon as I turn he'll hell have it. My thought was so what? At the time I had more boat speed than him and was around the mark before he got to within 2 boat lengths of me...not mention if he had caught me I so wide around the mark he had room. Am I missing something???

Lew


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

Sorry about the light winds. There is very little you can do to complete against those boats in the light stuff.

Regarding the mark rounding, as long as you are prepared to give him room you don't need to do anything else.

Barry


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

BarryL said:


> Regarding the mark rounding, as long as you are prepared to give him room you don't need to do anything else.
> 
> Barry


Yep as long as you give him room you are good to go. Another factor although it does not really go with the Corinthian Spirit, is there is a game of bluffing involved in sailboat racing. As a more aggressive sailor approaches a mark he may yell, "overlap," "I need room," or "rule 42." It is up to you determine if he has an overlap or is owed room or if there is a rule 42, if not stand your ground.


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

I think the further away from the mark you are, the more room for error you have to leave. If you are banging the corners you leave more chance for shifts and drift. I may be a conservative racer, but I see many races lost by those trying to tack right to the mark. If you don't put enough "in the bank" you are at the mercy of wind shifts and even if you are spot on, there is often a lot of traffic right at the mark, including boats that may not have the right of way. Sure you may win the protest if fouled by a port tacker, but other boats will pass you as you fight with the transgressor or try to get around him. I will take a clean rounding over a spot on rounding any day. But that's just me.


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## JoCoSailor (Dec 7, 2015)

Weekly update (Last). Good winds this week. Thanks to all the tips from you guys, I was not even close to missing/hitting a mark. Lead the first race wire-to-wire. A bad start in the 2nd, but had the lead by the second mark. Now if I could just the Portsmouth handicaps revised.....

BTW was coaching MOB drills on Saturday in my boat. The lines on the deck worked well then too!

Lew


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

So, I am not a racer... 

Regarding pointing directly at the mark: Boats have leeway. They crab a bit through the water. You need to point higher than the path you intend to follow. If you do not, you will gradually need to point higher, and higher as you approach the mark.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

*Currents, heading, Course Over Ground (COG)*



Barquito said:


> So, I am not a racer...
> 
> Regarding pointing directly at the mark: Boats have leeway. They crab a bit through the water. You need to point higher than the path you intend to follow. If you do not, you will gradually need to point higher, and higher as you approach the mark.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It depends on currents and your heading.

The Long Island Sound has currents. Where I sail the current can easily be over 1 kt. The flood tide runs to the west, the ebb to the east. If you are sailing south, and the current is flooding, you will be heading more west than you would think.

If the wind is from the south, and the race mark is towards the south, sailing on a SE course would seem like you were lifted as the tide will help set you to the west. On the other tack it would feel like you were being headed or being set down. To sail the best course you need this information so you don't overstand on one tack or have to make extra tacks on the other tack.

You should always compare your compass HEADING to your GPS COG (assuming you have a GPS). The difference can be significant. Where the boat is aimed may NOT be where the boat is going.

My B&G Vulcan plotter is supposed to account for predicted currents when calculating and displaying laylines. Sometimes I feel like I'm cheating when I use it, but I will take any (legal) advantage I can get!

Barry


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