# Offshore in a 24'



## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

I have decided that I want to sail my Islander Bahama 24 from Seattle to Hawaii. In 2 years. I plan to bring an old, blown out mainsail as a backup, and a newer main. As well as 3 headsails, Genoa and 2 jibs. What do you folks think should be on the list of improvements for the trip? 

Currently the list is this: 

Seal, reinforce, dog all hatches securely. 

Design and install a better servo-pendulum vane.

New rudder bushings... (Currently I can simply lift my tiller, and my keel-hung rudder will lift out of the bushing at the bottom of the keel, any ideas on fixing this?) 

Install, test, and stow an emergency rudder.

Spectra inner forestay and running backs so that if any one fitting fails, the stick stays up. 

Extra stays and shrouds on hand.

Lots of trailing warps. 

A sea Anchor.

Double up ports with clear exterior plastic. 

EPIRB. 

Spare Parts

Solar Panel 

Extra Bulkheads??? 

Conversion of V-Berth to Storage? ?/ 

Anyway, if anyone who has done this before has any advice it would be greatly appreciated. I am not planning on buying a bigger boat in which to do this, either.


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

I think there is a classic work on upgrading to cruise, maybe by Richard Henderson?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Read "Trekka Around the World" by John Guzzwell. His first leg was Victoria to Hawaii. Trekka is now at the Victoria Maritime Museum. When I moved to Victoria in 1987 it was my first stop. Also John Neal's first book about cruising the Pacific in his first boat, a 27' Vega. He also sailed from the Pacific Northwest, but to San Francisco. There is an appendix in this book about outfitting a small boat for offshore sailing. I think if the boat is in good shape it's do-able. A small boat is in some ways easier to make ready for offshore than a large one in my opinion. As far as an emergency rudder, you also need a vane so get one that incorporates an emergency rudder. Make sure the companionway only opens down to seat height, not all the way to the cockpit sole. Make the cockpit smaller if possible by installing a storage locker at the forward end maybe to reduce its size. Put hinges and catches on all locker lids so if (when) you get knocked down the contents don't go flying around. To save trips forward rig a solent stay, a forestay just inside the forestay and parallel to it. You won't need runners as it attaches close to the masthead. Keep a storm jib on this stay and rig to raise from the cockpit. Rig a downhaul on your jib and lead this and halyards aft.
Brian 
Brian


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

John Vigor has a book on seaworthy sailboats.
Amazon.com: Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat: A Guide to Essential Features, Handling, and Gear (0639785801757): John Vigor: Books


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

Thanks mitiempo! That is some really good advice. I especially like the idea of storage lockers in the cockpit. Perhaps this would be a good place to keep sails. The cockpit on my boat is too large, and definitely needs another drain. I am sort of in limbo about outfitting this boat to go offshore, or selling it and buying something with standing headroom. I live aboard, so standing headroom would be a big plus.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

tager
Here's a picture of a cockpit that was reduced in size for offshore use. And the website it came from. This guy has sailed to 70 north in a Coribee and to the Azores and back (from UK). Well worth a look. But you don't need an inch of insulation to the whole hull and cabin if you go south!
Brian
Introduction to the junk-rigged Corribee Mingming


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## closehauled14 (Oct 26, 2009)

Positive flotation foam everywhere you can get it will help, also, larger scuppers in the cockpit in case you do get swamped. A well thought out ditch bag could go a long way if things go bad. I hope you never need it, but the piece of mind is invaluable.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

It's generally not practical to put enough foam on board for positive flotation.
Brian


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

You should read a copy of _Dove_, see:
Amazon.com: Dove (9780060920470): Robin L. Graham: Books


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

Ballast is encased lead 1700lbs and design displacement is 4200. 
Without bothering to do a whole lot of specific gravity calculations, I am going to assume that there will be 3000lbs of downforce if the boat sank as it is today. 

3000/64= ~46.88

46.88 cubic feet of foam is quite a bit. 
It would be roughly the equivalent of filling the interior with foam up to the waterline. I think that it would be better to use watertight bulkheads. A watertight door at the main bulkhead, another at the aft end of the cabin, and another at the motor well would split the boat into 4 watertight sections. 
Along with top-opening lockers above the waterline, this would buy some time in the event of a holing. 

However, I have decided that something with standing headroom would be superior, so I am looking to buy something like a Cheoy Lee offshore 27, or a Haida 26 with standing headroom, or anything else in the 25'-27' range with 5'11" headroom. Until then, it is sailing around Puget sound.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

tager
If the boat displaces (weighs) 4200 lbs you'd better have enough foam for 4200. Not 4199.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

The story of _MingMing_ is very exciting! That and _Carina_ and me. 
There was also another sailor sailing about the south pacific in a small boat, something like a Pearson 22. I guess when you are on a boat that small, the chance of death becomes quite a bit greater. I would definitely have to make some of the changes seen on MingMing, I particularly like the hatch instead of drop boards. I guess it is entirely possible to sail away in a 24'. It's just that something one could stand up in would be so much nicer.

Changing clothes, cooking, and cold weather are all things that are much more difficult in a boat with 4'9" headroom.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Unless you're 4'8'' tall.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)




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## marujosortudo (Oct 21, 2009)

You can certainly outfit a small boat for off shore travel. Plenty of folks have been across the ocean in 25 footers; although, often of greater displacement. The Pardey's Seraffyn displaces about 10,000#, for example. I will also second the recommendation of the John Vigor book. It even has an appendix where he itemizes outfitting a Catalina 27 for offshore cruising. I wouldn't say small boats are less safe for crossing oceans, perhaps just less comfortable . You do need a properly outfitted boat, of course. Heck, folks have taken row boats across oceans....

I would carefully look at other small boats that are on the market that might have already been outfitted partially for such work. Still, you'll probably have to do a good bit to get any boat ready. Personally, I'd be careful not to sacrifice seaworthiness for headroom. In this size vessel, it can be a real trade-off. In the meanwhile, try to get shorter


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

Okay I will take off my hat and shave my head, as well as go barefoot, does that sound good?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

tager
Get a copy of Sopranino, probably from the library or used book store as I think it's out of print now. It's about 2 young Englishmen who built a 19' boat, raced ity locally and across channel to France and then sailed from the Uk to the Canaries and across to the Caribbean - Barbados I think. Sopranino started what came to be called JOG racing, Junior Offshore Group. Before this everybody thought boats this size were unseaworthy (where have we heard this before? ) It ws quite a light boat. Their names were Patrick Ellam and Colin Mudie (who is currently a respected designer). Well worth reading. Also Vertue 35, story of Humphrey Barton, who worked for Laurent Giles in the UK, taking a Vertue (25' Giles design, although heavy disp) across the Atlantic. Also probably out of print. These will give you a good idea of small boats offshore.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Barefoot in this weather? Are you cold enough tager?


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## Garffin (Oct 22, 2009)

Big dreams of a small boat! Tager you should go for it. Keep it small and simple! I also have big dreams for my 24’. I am lucky in the fact that I can stand up in my boat. What about extending the cabin to shorten the cockpit. Also check out building your own wind gen. There are some really good sites out there for making a wind gen. the benefit is that you can easly keep/get spare parts and they work really well from what I have seen so far. I think mitiempo is right on. I am thinking on the same lines. I wish you all the luck and keep us updated. I am thinking this through also. I feel like for under 10k I should have myself a good ole boat. Man there is a lot of good info and leads on here. Thanks Dan


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

Neale's Offshore sailing companion has lots of great info for outfitting.

Here's some things I did for a Bermuda Run:

tapered Plugs for through hulls, attached to the seacock

A positive method for dogging the companionway hatches in place.

A good lee board for a sea berth to keep you in your bunk.

Dog down any loose floor boards...I used clips and bungy cord material

A beefed up First Aid kit, I'd want to be able to stitch a wound, ease the pain, splint a break etc. I got my doc to write a script for antibiotics and pain killers.. for me on one trip. 

A good pair of bolt cutters should be aboard, should you ever need to cut away the rig. 

Storm jib, tri-sail ( practice deploying) 

A properly mounted eye ring in the cockpit to hook your harness to before coming on deck.

continuous jack stays fore and aft ..flat aircraft type strapping material works best. ( they sell them now already sized)

a heavy gage tarp. (If you put a hole in the hull)

Emergency VHF antenna, not too helpful unless someone is within range.

Just a couple of things that come to mind.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Garffin
Are you 4'8'' tall? 
You're right about floorboards. All small boats and many larger ones have seat lockers with loose tops. The best idea is to put hinges and positive catches on all lockers - just buy ss piano hinge and cut to size. Imagine your boat upside down and what can fly around, hurting both itself and you. Bungee cord will not work if there are heavy items in the locker. Tapered plugs are good but also make sure the seacock is durable - no gate valves and if it looks flimsy and you can't afford to change it make sure nothing heavy enough to break it is nearby if loose in a seaway.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Twilight Zone's trip to Hawaii

A 25 footer that made the trip. Lots of mods detailed in the text. Set up for racing, but a lot should still apply.


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## Garffin (Oct 22, 2009)

Mitiempo! I am when I do this


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

It may be offshore in a 26 now!

Keet


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

tager
I looked at your blog, but there's not much about your boat. How's it coming along?


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

If you do go with a cockpit locker? I would move it forward to the companionway. It may make it more uncomfortable getting up, and down. It will keep water that enters the cockpit from entering the boat..........*i2f*


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Rather than a sea anchor, I'd suggest a Jordan Series Drogue. You can read about the JSD on my *blog*.

I would recommend build a proper bridgedeck at the front of the cockpit on your boat if it doesn't have one. I did this on my boat, and you can read about it *here*.

You should have some sort of retaining collar on the rudder stock to prevent it from lifting out of the bushing.

You should make heavy acrylic storm covers for the ports on your boat and carry a couple of pieces of 3/8" or 1/2" plywood large enough to cover a port in the case one breaks.

A decent set of tools, including what you need to maintain your rigging, engine, plumbing and electrical systems as well as emergency tools, like a small axe, a set of bolt or rigging cutters, a small (3-5 lb.) sledge with drift punch for punching out clevis pins, etc.

Making the forward bulkhead of your boat a water-tight bulkhead in case of collision is probably a good idea. I haven't done this, but my boat has multiple hulls and each is separated into multiple water-tight compartments-and it doesn't have a heavy keel to pull it under.

Making sure that all the stowage compartments, especially ones that contain heavy items like the anchor, batteries, etc. can be dogged shut is a good idea. IIRC, Ken Barnes aborted his circumnavigation in good part due to the 14 batteries he had aboard not being properly secured, and in a knockdown, they bounced around the cabin and broke a hatch and a few other things.

*As John Vigor would say-THINK INVERTED... what would happen if the boat was upside down and where would things end up. *

Having properly sized wooden bungs _*(softwood, with a hole drilled through the fat end, with a lanyard through the hole and stored in a sealed plastic bag)*_ next to each through-hull is a good idea. Having a collision mat and some thin plywood and underwater setting repair epoxy are also a good idea.

Jacklines, harness and tether, as well as some decent hardpoints in the cockpit, on the foredeck and at the mast, for you to clip into are a good idea. *When singlehanding-you have to stay on the boat*.

A good ditch bag with emergency water, a solar still, e-rations, a handheld VHF with extra batteries, signaling flares, mirror, etc., is a good idea.

Adding a proper first aid kit, with strong pain medication, silver-based burn creme, and other advanced medical gear and learning how to use it all is a very good idea.

I hope this helps.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> Rather than a sea anchor, I'd suggest a Jordan Series Drogue. You can read about the JSD on my *blog*. *I have never used a JSD but I think they make sense. Essentially they are similar to trailing warps, which may be near as effective.*
> 
> I would recommend build a proper bridgedeck at the front of the cockpit on your boat if it doesn't have one. I did this on my boat, and you can read about it *here*.
> 
> ...


That was a very helpful list and I will work on getting those before the time comes to sail to Mexico! I am not sure what to do about a liferaft, I like the portland pudgy. I may make one of my dinghies unsinkable, add a ditch bag, epirb, canopy, drogue, and maybe even sail rig, so that in case KEET goes bubble bubble I will have somewhere to go. I still can't figure out why an inflatable liferaft is preferred over an unsinkable dinghy. If similarly equipped, the dink seems to win on most counts.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

The biggest problem with liferafts is they aren't mobile - you sit and wait. The Pardeys make a good case for an unsinkable sailing dinghy and show how they did it. Not sure which book it is in.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

If the liferaft is needed on a nice day because a whale hit you than most anything would be fine (it did just happen) and they sank FAST

BUT if you need it becasue the Sea did in the boat than you need the things and offshore liferaft has


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Yes, but no reason not to have the same items available or even in the modified dinghy before an offshore leg starts.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Glad to help. The Portland Pudgy is a good choice IMHO, especially if you get the shelter and sail kits for it.



tager said:


> That was a very helpful list and I will work on getting those before the time comes to sail to Mexico! I am not sure what to do about a liferaft, I like the portland pudgy. I may make one of my dinghies unsinkable, add a ditch bag, epirb, canopy, drogue, and maybe even sail rig, so that in case KEET goes bubble bubble I will have somewhere to go. I still can't figure out why an inflatable liferaft is preferred over an unsinkable dinghy. If similarly equipped, the dink seems to win on most counts.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

The only problem tager is the Portland Pudgy costs about twice what you paid for your boat I think.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I never said it was affordable.... 



mitiempo said:


> The only problem tager is the Portland Pudgy costs about twice what you paid for your boat I think.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Here's an interesting link to a liferaft review that includes the Tinker. 1994 Life Raft Test
There is also the Tinker inflatable designed to be a dinghy and a liferaft. traveller boats from henshaw Ltd


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Mitiempo—

You'll probably want to use Tinyurl.com to convert the link you posted so that the Sailnet autolinking engine doesn't shred it.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Sounds kinda exciting Tager!

Your plans so far make sense to me....
Another book you may want to read is called
'Ocean Cruising on a Budget' by Anne Hammick.

It specifically details ocean cruising on less than 30ft....
It's out of print, but still around. I have a copy and would happily send it on to you if you. If you want it PM me.

Secondly how is your offshore experience?? If you haven't already might be cool to go along on a trip or two on someone else's boat, and learning what you can. If you've done this already, or beyond this then ignore me. 

Thirdly, please when you do it pictures...pictures.

Fourthly, best of luck man, hope you have a ball.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

I got a real dinghy btw. Incidentally the design is exactly the same as what I carved that chunk of foam into about 7 months ago. Too bad my landlord decided to impound my 5'6" oars and refuses to return them!


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

Reverse the action that caused them to be impounded. Otherwise he stole them, and you can call the police!..........*i2f*


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