# Courtesy Flags?



## hayesemily (Jan 24, 2003)

We are going to be cruising in Canada, the Caribbean, and South and Central America starting this summer. This may be a silly question, but I''ve heard different opinions - how important is it to have courtesy flags for each country we visit? If it is recommended strongly, then has anyone ever tried making some of these flags vs. buying factory made ones?
(Planning our first sailing voyage abroad,)
Emily


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## tsenator (Nov 6, 2000)

You can go here 

http://usflags.com/browsestore.asp?CategoryID=6

and get some flags for a decent price.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

You MUST have courtesy flags - some countries will fine you if you don''t. It can be very insulting not to fly their flag and you won''t make any points with the port captain. 

During our last cruise, we made all of our flags. Unless you''re going to stay a long time, they don''t have to be bullet-proof (remember, they are 20 feet up the mast and don''t have to be perfect). We used cheap fabric and fabric markers for designs (like Mexico). There is a book, I think put out by Sailrite that was reviewed in Good Old Boat last year - it''s pretty good. Has all designs and scales. You''ll need a sewing machine, unless you like hand sewing, but you can use a home machine. 

Often other cruisers will sell their flags or even make them for sale. We liked to keep ours for the memories (look at the shredded Guatemala flag - remember that gale ?)



You might consider a better quality "Q" flag since you will hoist it alot.


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## jack_patricia (May 20, 2001)

Emily, yours is a normal question and you should assume that any ''absolute'' answer you get will be somewhat inaccurate as local practice varies immensely on the subject of courtesy flags.

Some locals have learned that they can approach a new yachtie, tell them they ''must'' fly a courtesy flag and maybe end up selling them one. The yachtie later notices in the anchorage that half the boats aren''t flying one. In other places (perhaps even the same country), officials can take it seriously and compliance is appropriate. At one port, you''ll be remote from the officials at all times and there''s not even anyone with whom you are complying.

I''d suggest you look at the question a little differently. You''re about to embark on a big adventure - what would add the most to it? Assume for the moment this is more ''custom'' than ''law'' - what''s going to provide fun and interest to the cruise? Some get a kick out of being crafty and doing the bare minimum re: govt. regs. Others find flags to be part of the ''experience''. What fits your boat?

My suggestion: Prepare in advance where possible, invent on the spot when you must, buy what the kitty will allow but make what you can when the money is better spent elsewhere. My wife (with a little help from me) makes most of our flags, but OTOH she chooses not to make some because they are so intricate. Her preference is that whatever flag we fly, it looks good, is reasonably representative, and will last a while - because that''s what we like, because it will be a momento of the cruise, and because we might want to reuse it (and we have, in some cases). But this is our set of preferences; your pleasure is that you begin to invent yours!

Oh, and don''t forget a good flag book (good ones reflect the several main types of flags used by a country, not just the national colors) and markers, scraps, glue, etc.

Jack


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## hayesemily (Jan 24, 2003)

Thanks for all of your suggestions. WHOOSH- can you recommend a good flag book? And fourknots- do you know the title of that book put out by Sailrite? I''d like to look into both of those ideas. Thanks again.
Emily


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## Nereus32 (Jun 23, 2002)

Check out Boating Etiquette (Chapman''s Nautical Guides) by Queene Hooper Foster. I''ve seen it around at both Barnes & Nobles and Borders. Also available cheap on Amazon.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Here''s the info, Emily

Make Your Own Courtesy and Signal Flags: Instructions, Patterns, and Flag
Facts for 28 Caribbean Courtesy Flags and 40 International Signal Flags by
Bonnie Ladell and Matthew M. Grant (Sailrite Enterprises, Inc.
1-800-348-2769; © 2001; 64 pages; $19.95)


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## jack_patricia (May 20, 2001)

Emily, we''ve been looking for quite a while now to find a replacement for our dated flag book, and so far have been disappointed. Sorry I can''t be more helpful.

You''ll find lots of alternatives (e.g. world almanacs, Reeds, flag books in the travel section of a good book store) and, for your cruising grounds, most of them will probably be fine (mainly because so few island nations in the Caribbean really care about flags altogether, let alone which of the several choices you are using).

Jack


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

http://www.photius.com/flags/alphabetic_list.html


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## marinegirl405 (Jun 7, 2007)

I purchased an Australian produced flag book "Sew Many Flags" which I recommend, but beware, I think in some countries the courtesy flag is not necessarily the same as the nation flag (just to confuse matters).


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Marinegirl-

Are you aware that you're responding to posts over five years old? Please check the dates before reviving a dead thread.  I believe the courtesy flags are usually the national flag, but the ensigns that yachts fly isn't always the national flag. In the UK, they fly the Red Ensign IIRC, and in the US, some boats fly the US Ensign.

The British Red Ensign










The US Yacht Ensign


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"the ensigns that yachts fly isn't always the national flag." 
Correct. There are various marine ensigns, like the two you show, which are for "flagged" vessels only. In the US that would be USCG Documented vessels only.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

One other point... it isn't appropriate for a US-flagged USCG documented vessel to fly the Yacht ensign when in foreign waters. It is for domestic use only IIRC. In foreign waters, the ensign a USCG documented vessel would fly would be the stars & stripes with the 50 stars...


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## hphoen (Apr 3, 2003)

In many cases, the courtesy flag and the national flag are the same, but not always--the British Virgin Islands, for example. The national flag has a blue field, the courtesy flag has a red field.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

And it is a blonde on the courtesy flag, and a brunette on the national flag. Damned brits.


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

In the Bahamas the courtesy flag is the ensign; not the national flag.


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## mrdarklight (Apr 6, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> Marinegirl-
> 
> Are you aware that you're responding to posts over five years old? Please check the dates before reviving a dead thread.


I don't really understand why people say this. The thread may be five years old, but the information is clearly still relevant, as evidenced by the fact that someone responded to it, and you yourself responded with information.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

It's only a dead thread to the people that were responding to it at that time. Now it's a current thread again. And it is interesting SD, that whilst you berated the poster, you continued to respond and keep the thread alive?

Mr Dark, I agree with you but it is often necessary to be aware that the people who asked the questions may be dead already so answering them may be moot.


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## bobwebster (Jan 25, 2005)

According to international rules the courtesy flags optional on smaller vessels, but some countries require them. One flag that is NOT optional in most countries is the yellow quarantine flag. I was threatened with a $10,000 fine once at Grand Cayman when I forgot to put one up, even though I was already with Customs. They let it slide, and next time I'll remember.


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

I havent been there yet but am told that you can get away with the British red ensign for a courtesy flag in pretty much all Brit possessions.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

It seems to me that the term 'courtesy flag' gives away its intent i.e. 'courtesy'. To me that means demonstrating respect for the nation visited.

I mean pasting together the symbol of a country out of odds and ends (as it will be so far up the flag halyard that no-one will notice anyway) seems a bit discourteous to me.

I guess I could cobble together a reasonable facsimile of the stars and stripes using fruit roll-ups and Honeycomb cereal, but it might attract the ire of US sailors - not to mention attracting $h17hawks and other flying vermin.

IMO if you fly a courtesy flag, show courtesy to your host and use the real McCoy.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I'm not complaining about reviving old threads, I think it is a good idea to do that when the subject is the same subject you want to talk about, but I did laugh about the comment in 2008 in this thread that was complaining about this thread being revived after being idle for 5 years.  That makes this thread like 7 years old or something.

On the topic of flags, I would like to sew my own, but at the same time my sewing isn't so great and I think there is a fine line there between (1) having the respect for another country that you would put your own hands to work making a courtesy flag and (2) just making a lame flag that isn't respectful at all. I think the difference is materials, skill, and intention to make a good flag. I don't like the idea of those "magic marker flags" some people make where they just scribble a flag on material and fly it.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Bear in mind that Martha Washington "scribbled" together the first Stars & Stripes.

Whether you are making a flag yourself or cobbling scraps, depends on your skill level. Every 'real" US flag is to some extent cobbled together, the stars have to be SEWN on the real thing. Hand or machine, still the same.

And of course a "Q" flag...I doubt you could tell the home-made one from a factory made one.<G>

Get over it guys. Your ship's carpenter and ship's tailor should be able to cobble together most anything you need, except spare dilithium crystals. Somehow, those always ssem to be a problem. 

What, you're on some little cheap-ass boat that doesn't have carpentry and tailor crews onboard?! Whoever launders your uniforms??


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

hellosailor said:


> Get over it guys. Your ship's carpenter and ship's tailor should be able to cobble together most anything you need, except spare dilithium crystals. Somehow, those always ssem to be a problem.


What sometimes happens is that a 'guest' of the captain would have jewelery made out of the required dilithium crystals.

Maybe a 'guest' would donate their apparel to be used as a courtesy flag?


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> Bear in mind that Martha Washington "scribbled" together the first Stars & Stripes.


No hellosailor, I don't mean figuratively, I mean some cruisers actually get some white material and magic markers and color the white material to make a flag. I think that's disrespectful, that's just plain old not trying very hard.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

Ok, I googled "cheap country flags" and I can get anything for under five bucks...'take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## ditch (Mar 21, 2009)

The issue of whether to fly or not to fly courtesy flags has come to mind from time to time. So I was happy to come across this thread. 
My question is: 
*Have any of you had first hand (or have heard secondhand) negative experiences from not flying the courtesy flag? 
*
I have read and heard many "you must, it will probably, and you should because&#8230;" but I'd appreciate some first hand experience from _*not *_flying them.


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## Tabris (Mar 19, 2002)

I know of many Canadians who see it as a personal insult and let it be known when US boats (usually powerboats) fly a huge American flags with no courtesy flag while in Canadian waters. When I lived in Barbados they routinely fined offenders,
A Retired US coastguard member told me not flying the flag of the guest country is a challenge to that countries _sovereignty .
_


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## RonRelyea (Nov 18, 2009)

"Bear in mind that Martha Washington "scribbled" together the first Stars & Stripes. "

ummmm .... Betsy Ross ???


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Dang it, Ron, I musta gotten one of them cheap "made in china" history books!


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## ditch (Mar 21, 2009)

Tabris thanks for the info.

What year did you live in Barbados?
About how much was the fine?


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## Tabris (Mar 19, 2002)

I believe the fine was $400bbd. I lived in a house on Carlisle bay a couple houses toward Bridgetown from the yacht club next to the Nautilus.


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## ditch (Mar 21, 2009)

Ok， so that converts to about *200USD*. Thanks


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## remetau (Jan 27, 2009)

Tabris said:


> I know of many Canadians who see it as a personal insult and let it be known when US boats (usually powerboats) fly a huge American flags with no courtesy flag while in Canadian waters. When I lived in Barbados they routinely fined offenders,
> A Retired US coastguard member told me not flying the flag of the guest country is a challenge to that countries _sovereignty .
> _


That's funny. There are a lot of Canadians who come down to Marathon and fly a large Canadian flag from their stern, but no courtesy flag. We also had a French boat that flew the courtesy flag, but also flew a very large French flag from their back stay about 20 feet above the courtesy flag.

I had friend who got really upset when "guests" didn't fly the courtesy flag and would mention so on the morning net. Me personally, I could care less since it is supposed to just be a "courtesy".


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

in some places in isnt just a courtesy. it is the law. that is why they fine you if you dont do it.


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## Architeuthis (Mar 3, 2008)

remetau said:


> That's funny. There are a lot of Canadians who come down to Marathon and fly a large Canadian flag from their stern, but no courtesy flag. ...".


I spent more than a year in FL and AL and saw no, or few, such violations though most sailing was off season. All fellow Canadians I talked to would given the chance have said something and it was a topic of discussion as there are some descrepencies.

In Canada the national flag flown at the flagstaff should be one inch on the fly for each foot of overall length of the vessel. So a 36' boat should have a flag that is at least 3' fly or 1.5' x 3'.

It can sometimes be difficult to get a proper 1.5' x 3' flag as often the ratio incorrectly used is 3:5 which results in a 1.8' x 3' or 2.4' x 4' which looks very large indeed. 10:19 is fine but 3:5 (1.8' x 3') or 2:3 (2' x 3') which is also available, may make the flag larger than it should be.

Then there is the difficulty in finding a suitable 1.5' x 3' flag. I could not when I last bought a flag. The most common size appeared to be 2'x 4' and was the only choice for someone who had to buy at a local store or go without.

A 2' x 4' can look like a large flag on a small boat, but meets the reguirements, is commonly available and is likely the size you are seeing on small Canadian vessels trying to meet requirements.

It also allows for a larger USA flag to be flown (1/2 size is standard). I could only find a decent 18" US flag when I was shopping but will order another 1'x2' when I get a new Canadian flag. My starboard spreader halyard is poorly installed for a 1'x2' as that size can hit the shroud so will often fly the smaller courtesy.

The result is a large looking 2 foot by 4 foot national flag and a small 9" x 18" courtesy.

No comment or offense is meant.

Neither is any meant when I fly a flag at night, which I often do when on the boat though I understand I should not do so in marinas or when leaving the boat for any extended time. Sometimes I forget. At anchor or visiting for a short time it is not a mistake, it is the only way I can be sure it will be up by 0800hrs as I am often not.


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## remetau (Jan 27, 2009)

I don't mean to offend anybody, but just speaking to what I see, and I do see a lot of Canadians down here that don't fly a courstey flag, but hey, I don't really care wether you do or not. I was just making an observation. We like it when you come down here, we just wish you tipped our wait staff bettter


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## Architeuthis (Mar 3, 2008)

remetau said:


> I don't mean to offend anybody, but just speaking to what I see, and I do see a lot of Canadians down here that don't fly a courstey flag, but hey, I don't really care wether you do or not. I was just making an observation. We like it when you come down here, we just wish you tipped our wait staff bettter


Understood.

:laugher I'm already over the 20% tip level, add in the cleavage allowance, smile allowance, and extra service allowance and 50% is not unheard of. Which may be why a certain American catamaran crew has me pay the bill and they cover the tip. They didn't want the staff to get used to my tips. :laugher

Though I recently went to leave a $5cdn tip for a less than $20 meal (less than 10 miles from the border) and got a comment about Canadian money being useless, so I left an American $1 tip (all I had in US $). I'm sure he would agree with the stereotype.


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## ditch (Mar 21, 2009)

Ok, so if in some countries courtesy flags are not only courtesy, but the law, does anybody know of a place where there is a list of the countries that it is the law?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Noonsite.com is probably a good resource for that.


ditch said:


> Ok, so if in some countries courtesy flags are not only courtesy, but the law, does anybody know of a place where there is a list of the countries that it is the law?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Arch-
If your US flag is 1'x2' and doesn't have embroidered stars on it...We'll have to call in an air strike.

https://assist.daps.dla.mil/quicksearch/basic_profile.cfm?ident_number=52554

Check out Revision F for the current military specifications for a "correct" US flag. And remember, if you leave it up during the night...they have night vision, they'll still get you.<G>


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Can we send in a sniper instead...if he has a nice boat???


hellosailor said:


> Arch-
> If your US flag is 1'x2' and doesn't have embroidered stars on it...We'll have to call in an air strike.
> 
> https://assist.daps.dla.mil/quicksearch/basic_profile.cfm?ident_number=52554
> ...


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## Architeuthis (Mar 3, 2008)

Check that, mil spec flag....I guess I should get a reverse flag as well for running downwind, I like to be in compliance! 

I think the air strike missed. One night on the Gulf of Mexico the sonic booms were deafening and multiple. First thing we did was confirm position, well that was the second, first was hands over ears!! LOL

PS: defer snipers, engine may have coolant leak, repairs begin tomorrow.


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## ditch (Mar 21, 2009)

Flag Advisor

Flag Advisor


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## Yofy (Aug 15, 2007)

I have a question. Why NOT fly a courtesy flag?

I just don't see what the big deal is? We go cruising in order to visit different countries and cultures. Aquiring (or making) courtesy flags is just one part of the adventure. One of our favourite rites of passage is changing the courtesy flag.



Manny and Robyn


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

sd-
I don't think a sniper would work, unless he had a damned big gun. Remember, that offending "not a flag" has to be burned or buried to get rid of it properly. 

"Uniformed paramilitary youth group burns flags in state park!"
"Boy Scouts conduct free public flag disposal."

All relative, isn't it?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I guess a napalm strike or an FAE is in order... or we could just use a small tactical nuke.. 



hellosailor said:


> sd-
> I don't think a sniper would work, unless he had a damned big gun. Remember, that offending "not a flag" has to be burned or buried to get rid of it properly.
> 
> "Uniformed paramilitary youth group burns flags in state park!"
> ...


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## hamburking (Mar 13, 2010)

Here in Canada, on the border of the states, courtesy flags are appropriate. However, for smaller boats, say under 26 feet, they are not expected by the local authorities. Bigger boats are expected to fly the correct bunting, both aloft and on the stern. 

A bigger concern here is markings on the dinghy. If you have a motor on your dinghy, it had better have a name or numbers on it. All vessels with power must be identified and I have heard first hand accounts of fines in small US harbours for taking a dinghy for a row, motor up, with no id.

BTW, we are sewing our own courtesy flags. Once you get started it's really easy and fun.

Good luck on your trip!


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