# Practical safety and security advice



## Virgincruiser (May 1, 2016)

Hi

I don't know if I am writing In the correct forum. 

I have just got my day skippers licence (ICC)

We are a family of 6. Kids aged 12, 10, 7 and 5 and we are chattering a boat for a week this summer in Mallorca. I have my day skippers licence but am concerned about a few things where I am struggling to find good resource. 

My two primary concerns are as follows:

1) early in the morning when everyone is asleep, or indeed during the night, how do I ensure that none of my kids wander up on deck? I understand that briefing them in the first instance is critical but are there any particular tricks, systems to ensure that I am alerted if one of the children tries to go up on deck while myself and my wife are asleep. Of particular concern are my 5 (particularly inquisitive) and 7 year olds. 

2) somewhat paranoid I know but if we are on a pontoon or pier by night, how best to manage the security of the boat particularly in relation to someone wandering on board, one always being conscious of the security And safety of ones children. 

I hope this is the correct place for this question!! Thank you in advance for replies


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## desert rat (Feb 14, 2013)

The only solutions that make sense to me are, a metal grate drop board with proper lock, or a panic switch (lights and horns). I can not see anything else working.


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## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Use a hotel type travel alarm like http://www.amazon.com/Belle-Hop-Travel-Alarm-Flashlight/dp/B004RJWDWI


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## Virgincruiser (May 1, 2016)

Ulladh said:


> Use a hotel type travel alarm like http://www.amazon.com/Belle-Hop-Travel-Alarm-Flashlight/dp/B004RJWDWI


Great idea. Thank you.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Portable electric fence used on farms. The 5 year old will be a good alarm.



Check with the charter company if the doors lock from the inside. Though they may not for safety to allow people out easily in an emergency.

I have not hear of an accident with your scenario, but 5 year olds waking at dawn on an exciting vacation...

Perhaps put the 5yo in a cabin close to you so you could here if anyone moves.
On a catamaran have them forward in the hull you are in. Close their door but leave yours open.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Ulladh said:


> Use a hotel type travel alarm like http://www.amazon.com/Belle-Hop-Travel-Alarm-Flashlight/dp/B004RJWDWI


Great idea!


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

We lock the main hatch every night from the inside. We do so in a way that it cannot be locked from the outside, so we cannot be locked in.
I don't know what you can do on a bareboat except bring a battery powered door/window alarm and install it with double sided tape or some of that sticky 3m VHB that holds like glue but can be taken off.
Raising my daughter circumnavigating I never once, to the best of my knowledge, had her go on deck at night unaccompanied by an adult. Some rules are unbreakable and the kids need to know how serious breaking this one could be. 
Good luck.


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## Virgincruiser (May 1, 2016)

Thank you. I don't like the idea of locking from the inside in case of emergency so it looks like the door alarm is the way to go. I also like the fact that you prevent the hatch from being locked from the outside - I hadn't thought of that - easily done I imagine. Best, MH


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

It's good that you are thinking of these things ahead of time so you can start talking about the rules with your kids in advance. Our son was 3 when we got the boat (he's now 6) and it has been drilled into him that he does not go up the companionway steps without his PFD on. It's as automatic as buckling a seatbelt when getting in the car.

For sleeping, our son has always slept with us in the v berth. I'm a light sleeper and he couldn't get out of the v berth without me noticing, but I'm also confident that he would not try. We usually sleep with the companionway open with a screen to keep airflow going, and I've really never worried that he'd wander on deck in the night but he's a bit timid when it comes to rules so I guess we're lucky in that regard.


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## Virgincruiser (May 1, 2016)

caberg said:


> It's good that you are thinking of these things ahead of time so you can start talking about the rules with your kids in advance. Our son was 3 when we got the boat (he's now 6) and it has been drilled into him that he does not go up the companionway steps without his PFD on. It's as automatic as buckling a seatbelt when getting in the car.
> 
> For sleeping, our son has always slept with us in the v berth. I'm a light sleeper and he couldn't get out of the v berth without me noticing, but I'm also confident that he would not try. We usually sleep with the companionway open with a screen to keep airflow going, and I've really never worried that he'd wander on deck in the night but he's a bit timid when it comes to rules so I guess we're lucky in that regard.


Thanks. Our youngest is MAD. Three lovely daughters and this crazy boy bringing up the rear. If he is told not to do it that's exactly what he will do so all the briefings and all the warnings will only go so far!! I too am a light sleeper but I don't want to rely on that - just in case!! I like the alarm on the hatch - that should work nicely for both escapees and intruders - I'll sleep better with that in place!!


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## tellemark32 (Aug 25, 2015)

Is there a way to rig a sensor on each side of the companionway? Sort of like a wireless "trip" laser. Activate at night when the kids go to bed. If they wander out, lights or an alarm sounds. Unobtrusive and harmless. You might rig the light or alarm just above your berth.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

tellemark32 said:


> light or alarm just above your berth.


Really? I think I'd want it to make a gawd awful noise and flashing lights everywhere.
The point IMO, is to dissuade the kids from going out, not to catch them doing something wrong.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

tellemark32 said:


> Is there a way to rig a sensor on each side of the companionway? Sort of like a wireless "trip" laser. Activate at night when the kids go to bed. If they wander out, lights or an alarm sounds. Unobtrusive and harmless. You might rig the light or alarm just above your berth.


Well, the OP posted this question over a year ago so our advice is a little late. The trip is done and over by now. I wonder how it turned out. He didn't come back to give us a report of how things went.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

I think we are taking the wrong approach.

5-year olds are taught to be safe around roads. They walk home from school. At 5 I knew enough not to play in the street. Same thing. By the time my girl was 5 I trusted her on deck. They should all be able to swim, at least a little. There should be a swim ladder down. 

I also took her rock climbing, not at the gym, but in scary places. I taught her to use sense around cliffs.

Don't tie them down. Don't yell at them around hazards. Teach them to respect hazards.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

pdqaltair said:


> I think we are taking the wrong approach.
> 
> By the time my girl was 5 I trusted her on deck. They should all be able to swim, at least a little. There should be a swim ladder down.


I don't think the original poster was wanting to tie their kids down or prevent them from being on deck he wanted to be aware of when they were. My kids knew how to swim prior to 1 year old. But I still would want to know, for me to be aware, when they're in the water or out on deck.

He said that he had one of those kids who had the type of personality where he would be tempted to try anything he was told not to do. I've known children like that, the fearless daredevils. They can be dangerous.

If your 5 year old gets up at the crack of dawn and sneaks out on deck and has a half an hour before you wake up, and are aware of it, there is a lot of room for a child that young to get into trouble. They could be snatched off the boat by a stranger walking by on the dock. They could fall in the water and be washed away by a current that's greater than their ability to swim against. A child like that may try and start the engine or try and crank a winch like they have seen daddy do and end up dropping winch handles in the water. It's not about limiting their adventures, it's about being aware when they're on the move so you can share their adventures with them.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

In my experience--limited, but I have taken many groups of kids sailing and rock climbing--is to make it clear that daredevil behavior will get you un-included from fun stuff when such behavior is a safety hazard. I make sure being un-included is an uncool experience, not one that earns rebel points or attracts attention. They will simply be ignored. I make sure the kids get positive attention for everything else. I make it clear that I sail and climb all the time and don't really care if we go home. I do NOT extend this discipline to non-safety related behaviors so that it is clear that it is NOT about me being in charge. There is only safe or not-included.

Perhaps poorly worded. But the point is to make sure the kid understands there is a clear difference between safety problems and other discipline. They need to understand that with safe behavior they get to do really fun, cool stuff, and that with unsafe behavior they cannot not be included, not because we are angry, but because it is impossible. Make safe more fun than daredevil.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

pdqaltair said:


> In my experience--limited, but I have taken many groups of kids sailing and rock climbing--is to make it clear that daredevil behavior will get you un-included from fun stuff.....


And how does this work with five-year-olds?


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## Virgincruiser (May 1, 2016)

I really should have replied to this sooner and updated all those individuals who gave me advice - so sorry!! 

I got a lot of replies saying fundamentally that you just need to simply "teach" your kids not to go up on deck but what I was looking for were "failsafes". My boy did not go up on deck but if something had happened and I had not put the requisite controls in place as an adult I would never forgive myself!! 

Firstly, the trip was an amazing success and much more relaxed than i thought it would be both quayside and at anchor. Before we set sail I bought two things: 1) A motion alarm for the companionway and cabin and 2) a portable travel door alarm for the hatch rigged internally.

I used both of them for the first few nights but I kept setting the motion sensor off myself when going up to check on movements during the night so did away with that by night three!! I did keep using the alarm on the hatch when I was inside and that was really useful actually as I felt it did the job of notifying for both entry and exit.

In any event, I slept up on deck quite a bit as I was rising so much during the night to make sure we were not drifting etc and I slept better up there - its much easier to just open an eye and raise your head than keep going up on deck was my logic (virgincruiser stuff i guess!!). 

The other thing that I did was give each of the kids a (very very important) job leaving my youngest for the last (and "most important") job. His job was the safety of the boat and everyone on board - lifejackets on, harnesses on if going forward and making sure I was awake before anyone went up on deck as well as watching for rocks when underway - that worked the best because he really took it seriously when I asked him to make sure of the safety of his sisters!! So it was his rule to enforce, not a rule being enforced upon him.

So all told it was a great success. Thanks to everyone for their great advice. Looking forward to our next trip this August!! A new post on same coming p as this time we are not joining a flotilla!! thank again. VC


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## B-to (Oct 21, 2015)

VirginCruiser,
Glad to hear you had a great trip and thanks for this post. Coincidentally I was thinking about this very same problem this morning - I have a 3 yr old and 6 yr old and we are planning our first overnighter on our boat and I was also worried about how to ensure my 3 year old doesn't wander on deck during the night/morning. Never would have thought about travel door alarms but I will definitely be getting one - great solution.


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## tellemark32 (Aug 25, 2015)

What type of alarm system did you use? Also, did you rig this as an alarm when you were away from the boat (to know if someone boarded the boat) or do you use a different alarm system that works with a smartphone?


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## Virgincruiser (May 1, 2016)

tellemark32 said:


> What type of alarm system did you use? Also, did you rig this as an alarm when you were away from the boat (to know if someone boarded the boat) or do you use a different alarm system that works with a smartphone?


I used exactly one of these http://www.amazon.com/Belle-Hop-Travel-Alarm-Flashlight/dp/B004RJWDWI

I also used a motion sensor in the cabin and on the top step of the companionway.

I didn't alarm the boat while we were not on it. I was really only concerned about some failsafes while we were on board. Everything else after all is replaceable!!


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## Virgincruiser (May 1, 2016)

B-to said:


> VirginCruiser,
> Glad to hear you had a great trip and thanks for this post. Coincidentally I was thinking about this very same problem this morning - I have a 3 yr old and 6 yr old and we are planning our first overnighter on our boat and I was also worried about how to ensure my 3 year old doesn't wander on deck during the night/morning. Never would have thought about travel door alarms but I will definitely be getting one - great solution.


Thanks. The only issue with the door alarm on the hatch is that you have to close the hatch and in Mallorca on august you want all the night breeze that you can get but I still left the top sliding part of the hatch open so that covered that off.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

Virgincruiser said:


> Thanks. The only issue with the door alarm on the hatch is that you have to close the hatch and in Mallorca on august you want all the night breeze that you can get but I still left the top sliding part of the hatch open so that covered that off.


You could use a screen or cargo netting with the alarm attached.


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## Jabudays Yacht Charters (Aug 11, 2017)

Virgincruiser said:


> Great idea. Thank you.


Thanks


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