# Communication when going ashore



## Kristtaney (Feb 17, 2016)

We are considering uhf radios to resolve two communication issues;
1, when anchoring, used with headset to avoid rude hand gestures and obscene language.
2, when going ashore we can split up but still contact the other person.

We have been considering the Motorola MS350R as it seem to meet the requirements.
What do you use and your thoughts on the above.


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## virtualground (Jan 24, 2016)

You want to avoid rude hand gestures and obscene language? Killjoy.


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## Kristtaney (Feb 17, 2016)

I must admit I do enjoy watching as people come into an anchorage. But after 20+ years of providing the entertainment it would be nice to do it without providing the show.


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## Erindipity (Nov 29, 2014)

Read up on the GMRS licensing requirements if used in the US:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Mobile_Radio_Service

The seven channels shared with FRS don't need a license.

Note that under certain restrictions, Canada has no GMRS licensing requirement.

Range is not anywhere near what is advertised. Basically it's Line Of Sight- if you can see the other person, you can communicate. ~1 Mile, give or take. The same applies for going ashore. Being in buildings can be bothersome, depending on construction; but any added height helps. This is why antennas typically go on roofs, and not in basements.

Swearing is frowned upon, and until Emojis infest the Channels, which I'm sure they eventually will, hand gestures are pointless. You might try the old technique here- Flag Semaphore:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_semaphore#Non-maritime_use

Also a Line Of Sight technique.

¬Erindipity


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

"Un-rude" hand signals work pretty well for us. Rarely a word is spoken during anchoring other than to preplan the drop.

The inexpensive UHF radios do work, and they are quite common.

We had been cruising with friends and had agreed on a channel for off-VHF contact. We were a little late getting to the anchorage and the other couple were setting a shore tie using the radios to communicate. They got into a bit of a spat over how it was going, not realizing that we had pulled in and had our radios on their channel.. So they inadvertently 'entertained' us even with the radios.. 

But, agree that the object is to always minimize your own EQ* 

*Entertainment Quotient


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## Kristtaney (Feb 17, 2016)

Well maybe we should try the semaphore method, I'm sure we won't attract any attention. Then again it would make for a fun topic as sundowners are had. 
Hey new sundowner game signal your next drink order.


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## FSMike (Jan 15, 2010)

Kristtaney said:


> We are considering uhf radios to resolve two communication issues;
> 1, when anchoring, used with headset to avoid rude hand gestures and obscene language.
> 2, when going ashore we can split up but still contact the other person.
> -----


If you have 1 you won't have to worry about 2 lol.


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## acarter92 (Jan 17, 2012)

I don't own any UHF's personally, but I work on a 300' offshore supply vessel. We use Icom UHF's (not sure what model) to communicate with the engine room when we are doing liquid transfers. We get good reception talking to the engine room through multiple bulkheads of thick steel, insulation, tanks, and electrical equipment 2-5 stories above them depending what we are doing. The VHF's don't even have a chance. 

Honestly though, I don't know why you couldn't use VHF's for anchoring, it's pretty uncommon not to be able to easily find an unused "working channel". 

Austin


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Austin-
If your Icom's are "Part90" certified radios, they typically have a 4 watt power rating. Much stronger than an FRS radio, which is legally allowed only 500mW and neither will ever see a 35 mile terrestrial range unless on a unicorn ranch.
The range of all of them can vary from "one apartment block" to maybe a mile on open fields or water, but anything beyond that is very unlikely. It is highly dependent on the obstructions (wood frame houses? concrete block? bare trees or heavy foliage in the rain?) in between the radios.
FRS/GMRS radios shift to a higher power when used for GMRS, but that requires licensing here in the US, and still won't buy you a lot more range.

The "Part90" radios from Icom and others have to be programmed for the licensee. Anyone can buy them, but interfering with whoever is already licensed to use those channels tends to carry stiff fines. (Again, here in the US.) In Canada...rules may vary.

Pretty much *every* FRS radio will have the same range, as they are all limited to the same 500mW and that's pretty much what they all use, so spending 5x as much to get a "better" model, is a cruel joke on the buyer.


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## Erindipity (Nov 29, 2014)

Just a little more about Range.
FRS/GMRS radios are _Transceivers_, and FCC Regs pretty much only address the Transmitting bits.
There aren't any regulations regarding Reception that I know of, other than the usual _not using information gathered thereby for personal gain_ thing. A separate Scanner/Receiver on either end with a high mounted high-gain antenna is perfectly OK, and this can extend the reception range considerably.

But if one was going to go to this much trouble, they might as well just get a Ham license, jump in the neighboring 70cm band, and participate in the ultimate form of Line Of Sight communications- Moon Bounce.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth-Moon-Earth_communication

¬Erindipity


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## virtualground (Jan 24, 2016)

> But if one was going to go to this much trouble, they might as well just get a Ham license, jump in the neighboring 70cm band, and participate in the ultimate form of Line Of Sight communications- Moon Bounce.


Damn moon's never there when you need to talk to crew...

"O, swear not by the moon, the fickle moon, the inconstant moon, that monthly changes in her circle orb" (Juliet)


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Just use your VHF

They work fine anchoring and on shore


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## Erindipity (Nov 29, 2014)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Just use your VHF
> 
> They work fine anchoring and on shore


Um, no. At least not in the US:

FCC: Wireless Services: Ship Radio Stations: Operations
"You must have a special license, called a marine utility station license, to operate a hand-held marine radio from land -- a ship station license IS NOT sufficient..."

...And not in Canada:
Licensing Exemptions - Spectrum Management and Telecommunications
"...maritime radio equipment should not be operated on land or in vehicles for personal use..."

These may seem to be petty restrictions, but the Laws governing them go back a Century, and they exist for reasons.

¬Erindipity


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## ReefMagnet (May 8, 2008)

Using a hand held VHF beach side is unlikely to get you pounced upon. A common call sign around my way is "shore party".


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## Stu Jackson (Jul 28, 2001)

If, I say IF, you plan to use any comms device for anchoring, the bow person has to have duplex, because BOTH hands should be available, all the time.

Hand signals are sooooo easy.

Flat side to side: put engine in neutral
Index finger up: forward (at idle speed)
Index finger or thumb down: reverse (at idle speed)
Circular arm motion: when in gear, rev it up some more

Repeat as necessary. 

Have fun, make up your own.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

We use hand signals when anchoring, VHF from dinghy to boat, and cell phones ashore. I'm a real radio geek and even I don't see a good reason for another set of radios for this function.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

We have been using hand signals for a long time when anchoring - we both agree on about where we want to drop and I go forward and the admiral has the helm -- works great and no yelling - 

as for going ashore - we have on occasion taken 2 VHF radios with us when we split up. Legal - HUMMM I doubt it -- do we care? Nope 

as for EQ -- we do enjoy sitting in the cockpit watching other boats come in and you can immediately tell who is good at it and who is not.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Seems like unnecessary added radios...

I think Auspicious summed it up well, as did many others.

As for anchoring with hand gestures, I couldnt agree more. So easy to use them, I find it an effective form of communication for anchoring. 
Thumbs up for forward, thumb down for reverse, flat hand for neutral, thumbs up repeatedly for more forward throttle and down for more reverse throttle. Slice the neck motion to kill the engine. Works well on my boat and never any yelling. 

I think the only time a nearby boat could have heard me cussing was jamming my toes on a stantion... hit the deck, rolled over, clenching foot in hand with some rather loud expletives. A few oz of rum later and I felt better.


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## Erindipity (Nov 29, 2014)

"as for going ashore - we have on occasion taken 2 VHF radios with us when we split up. Legal - HUMMM I doubt it -- do we care? Nope "

And just at the furthest possible range there is a feeble signal "Pan...Pan...Pan", followed by a few minutes later by "Mayday...Mayday...Mayday". And they aren't heard because some people are chewing up Channel 16 tracking down the best prices for Red Snapper.
Except under specific circumstances, Land-Based operation of Marine Radio frequencies and gear is _Forbidden_. Some need a History lesson:

Marconi's testimony on the inadequacies of Radio Communication Regulations, after the sinking of the Titanic:
TIP | United States Senate Inquiry | Day 1 | Testimony of Guglielmo Marconi, cont.

"I think it does effectively minimize or hamper the useful communications, because on an occasion like this I was told - I always want confirmation from a man who was there - but, if I remember correctly, I was told last night that a great number of unknown stations called up the captain for news." 
Yes, Bucketmouths existed in 1912.

In discussing procedures, he references the 1906 "Berlin Convention" which regulated Radio Communications at Sea. It mainly dealt with such things as Rates and Intercommunications between competing Commercial Stations, (Which Marconi opposed...). It does deal with some early aspects of Emergency Communications, including the adoption of SOS as the Distress Signal:
Berlin International Wireless Telegraph Convention: November 3, 1906
It does make a clear Distinction between Land-Based, and Maritime Operations. It has _always_ been this way. And:
"The exchange of superfluous signals and words is prohibited to stations of the class referred to in Article 1 of the Convention."
We now have 110 years of these Distinctions.

Since the Titanic sinking, Marine Communications have been Internationally understood to be fundamentally _different_ from all other Services. Training, Licensing, Equipment, and Procedures are closely controlled, (To a varying degree...), between Nations; everybody remembers the utter Hellhole that 27MHz CB Radio became once the Bucketmouths took over there.

I can see the irritation of carrying both a FRS/GMRS and a Marine VHF handheld around, but hey, one doesn't have to:
https://www.uniden.com/marine/id-ATLANTIS290/ATLANTIS_290_Dual_Band_Marine_VHF_and_GMRS_Radio
https://www.cobra.com/products/handheld-max-performance/mr-hh450-dual
Welcome to StandardHorizon.com
WEST MARINE VHF95DB Dual Band Floating Handheld VHF Radio | West Marine

¬Erindipity


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

Kristtaney said:


> We are considering uhf radios to resolve two communication issues;
> 1, when anchoring, used with headset to avoid rude hand gestures and obscene language.
> 2, when going ashore we can split up but still contact the other person.
> 
> ...


If they are voice activated with a headset for hands free operation while anchoring, they would be fine.

In our case we have been using Cruising Solutions Marriage Saver headsets on the boat for about 10 years. They are useful when anchoring and when sail handling as the "ear-muffs" tend to block out noise pretty well while allowing one to speak, and hear, at normal voice levels. With voice communications, there is none of the confusion about what one means or intends or needs that I often see with those trying to use hand signals.

On shore, we use Motorola Talkabout Family Radios. Here in southwest Florida we can easily communicate up to about 3-5 miles. One can, of course, use cell phones, but the Family Radios work well and, of course, when one is somewhere where cell phone signals are weak or non-existant. The range of the radio's will vary depending upon terrain but thus far we've had no problems with the radios. We have four handsets such that we can give everyone their own if necessary. We also use the radios when making a transit as the off-watch crew can set one down with the volume turned up near one's head while resting and easily hear a call for assistance from the cockpit by the on-watch crewmate.

Note that to use the GMRS channels on the Talkabout one does need a License but those are easily obtained and one can stick to the FRS channels, with the privacy settings enabled, until one obtains the License. (Note that we haven't noticed an appreciable difference between the reach of the FRS channels and GMRS channels although some maintain that there is.)

We've been very satisfied with the foregoing.

FWIW...


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## Moatflank (Jan 24, 2016)

What fun is comm without bad language?


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I don't understand what communication is necessary between the person on the bow and the one at the helm. 
On the wheel, I indicate the depth with fingers, as in one finger, then five being held up indicates 15 feet or 4 fingers indicates 40. My wife shows the same back to me so I know she understood. Then, at the appropriate moment, I give her a thumb's down and it's anchors away. We rarely let out less than a hundred feet, but I've joined her on the bow by then, so we decide that together.
Where in that does one find it necessary to include "rude hand gestures and obscene language"?
As for communication ashore, we rarely separate, but when we do, we meet at an agreed time at an agreed place. In the rare event one of us is ashore and needs to communicate with the other on the boat, we've found cell phones are the answer. Since we have local sims for most places we visit these days, we just ask to borrow a cell phone for a quick call. I'll generally give them a 5'er (us$1.85) and since it so rarely happens it is a whole lot cheaper than buying some fancy bit of gear that old Mr. Salt will have a grand old time destroying.


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## Shockwave (Feb 4, 2014)

I feel for some of the folks picking up moorings. A lack of skill doesn't improve with yelling. Sometimes it's best to get in the dinghy and offer to hand up the mooring lines after reaving then through the mooring for them.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

On a 30 ft sloop there really is only one way to communicate.

We use Facebook status updates and likes for all anchoring communications.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

capta said:


> I don't understand what communication is necessary between the person on the bow and the one at the helm.


Mostly agree with you. In our case Janet drives the boat and I do the heavy lifting on the bow. Heck the view is better up there and I "drive" (hand signals) while Janet steers.



capta said:


> In the rare event one of us is ashore and needs to communicate with the other on the boat, we've found cell phones are the answer. Since we have local sims for most places we visit these days, we just ask to borrow a cell phone for a quick call.


That does work. We keep my AT&T phone in addition to a separate unlocked quad band GSM phone with a local SIM. If we have to reach one another we can call from one to the other even if the roaming is a bit pricey.



Shockwave said:


> I feel for some of the folks picking up moorings. A lack of skill doesn't improve with yelling. Sometimes it's best to get in the dinghy and offer to hand up the mooring lines after reaving then through the mooring for them.


One of my favorite stories is doing just that.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

SVAuspicious said:


> Mostly agree with you. In our case Janet drives the boat and I do the heavy lifting on the bow. Heck the view is better up there and I "drive" (hand signals) while Janet steers.


We anchor exactly that same way, hand signals after prep discussion in the cockpit.

(re: helping others catch moorings)


SVAuspicious said:


> One of my favorite stories is doing just that.


We've done the same too, for people, esp solo, having difficulty picking up a mooring.

Years ago our park buoys were bored through the middle, if you grabbed the ring you could pull the chain through and up to deck level as you ran your line through. The new ones have fixed rings - not easier to get onto.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

Erindipity said:


> "as for going ashore - we have on occasion taken 2 VHF radios with us when we split up. Legal - HUMMM I doubt it -- do we care? Nope "
> 
> And just at the furthest possible range there is a feeble signal "Pan...Pan...Pan", followed by a few minutes later by "Mayday...Mayday...Mayday". And they aren't heard because some people are chewing up Channel 16 tracking down the best prices for Red Snapper.
> ¬Erindipity


Gosh your radio only has 1 channel -- amazing -- simply amazing - did not know they made them


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