# Family daysailing in Long Island and Block Island Sound



## DCM

Hello
I am looking to buy my first sailboat. The use would be for daysailing with as much family aboard as reasonable (we have 7 kids ranging from 2 to 17 years old) and in Long Island and block island sound. There is a boatyard with mooring in my town so I am looking into a trailer option vs using the boatyard.

I am looking at options like Catalina 22, 25, 27, 30, and Colgate 26. I have remote and sporadic sailing experience and plan to get back o to it via local sailing school with the ASA courses. I’ve heard this area can be choppy and with unpredictable weather so that the C22 may not be sufficient even though I’m most interested in that one as a starter.

thanks for any advice!


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## Jeff_H

That is a big family for any sailboat. Unless you plan to leave portions of your family ashore,, minimally you will need a boat a very big cockpit (Minimally 10-12 feet of seats on each side of cockpit). The boat will need to be easy to single-hand (since at least one adult will be tied up with the younger kids.) Also with the younger kids, you will want a boat with a decent sized cabin with a decent head and galley, and places to take a nap. 

I suggest that doesn't exist in a boat you can trailer easily enough that foregoing the boat yard is an option. I am not sure it exists in a boat less than 30 or so feet, and I can't even think of a 30 footer with a big enough cockpit and minimal but sufficient interior to make that work .

Jeff


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## SanderO

My Contest 36s has a very large cockpit and more than 6 would be crowded and not comfortable. Can I get more squeezed in? Yes.

I suggest you take only half as many on board at a time. That may not be feasible. LI Sound can be anything from dead calm to nasty 4-6 foot waves. You'll need to choose your weather accordingly.


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## DCM

Thanks 
I’m not sure we’d all go out at once and am hearing that’s not feasible anyway. Maybe 3 to 6 people is a more comfortable option?

the other part of the question is the weather mentioned. Basically in a 22, be careful to watch the weather, closer to 30 would tolerate a bit more?

As of now the teenagers are saying they want to learn and crew because they enjoyed charters we’ve done but who knows of that actually happens.


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## mstern

The only boat you mentioned that can handle that size crowd is the Colgate 26. The cockpit can hold 8 easily. The cabin is tiny; just enough room for a couple of people to lie down and for one to sit on the portapottie. Six people can crowd into the cockpit on a C30 and 27, but no more. And it’s tough to actively sail with that many there because someone is always in the way of the winches. Forget about getting more than 4 in a C22. you can fit more, but you wont be able to sail that way.


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## DCM

@mstern i think you're right. I'm closing in on that as the best option.


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## JimsCAL

For what your propose doing, a boat with a small cuddy and and a huge cockpit is the way to go. The Colgate 26 is really not designed for trailering with its over 4 foot keel. Might work for just taking it home to avoid winter storage, but not sure you can easily get it on a trailer at a ramp. Having a yard lift it an put it on a tralier is going to take away a lot of any potential savings.


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## DCM

Thanks @JimsCAL 
I've come to the conclusion that a slip and winter storage is going to the best way to do this
Paying for convenience and ease of use would make it more likely to be enjoyed 
Prices aren't too bad here but there is a lottery - will probably enter in the fall and see if it works out


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## 22catcapri

This is out of the box, but I would buy two Catalina 22s. It would be easier to get more to the helm, could have family competitions, mixing crews...


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## JimsCAL

Other boats with big cockpits -Sonar, Ensign, Rhodes 19.


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## DCM

@JimsCAL all of those look nice
I was also looking at the Pearson 26
Sad that company isn't building anymore, their boats look nicely done

@22catcapri not a bad idea, might still be cheaper than the Colgate even keeping both at the marina!


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## SanderO

Expecting to find a large enough boat with a trailer is a steep hill to climb... not to mention the PITA in launching it. hpw do you trailer launch a keel boat? ... a long trailer and a steep ramp?

Get a mooring... use a launch or a dinghy.... and a decent size boat. And then you have the parking and where to store the dink (and OB) when not being used.


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## DCM

@SanderO I'm there except I think I prefer a slip to not worry about getting out to the boat
The only nominal benefit of a trailer in that case is $35 per foot winter storage at marina instead of $48 per foot without a trailer


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## Minnewaska

Unless a boat has a usable head, it can’t be a day sailor . More like a couple hour sailor. Not just a “men over 50” issue, but kids notoriously need to go 5 mins off the dock.


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## Arcb

Catalina 275 Sport wing keel might check all the boxes?


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## DCM

@Arcb definitely but too expensive I imagine
@Minnewaska you think Colgate head no good?


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## DCM

never mind @Minnewaska , I assume you were referring to the sonar idea


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## Minnewaska

DCM said:


> @Minnewaska you think Colgate head no good?


Thats up to you. It would be insufficient for some people, not others. I do not believe the Colgate has an enclosed head, in the cutty cabin.


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## Jeff_H

If you are only planning on sailing with 3 maybe 4 people at a time and the boat is only being used literally as a daysailer, then the Colgate isn't a bad choice. Off the top of my head, I would add a few more boats to JimsCAL's list as follows:
Grampian Classic 22,, Paceship Bluejacket 23, O'Day Tempest 23 (not the former Olympic class), Pearson Weekender, Freedom-Catalina Independence 20, Bristol 26 weekender, and in the almost free category) the Rainbow 24. 

While not all of these even have a head in a cutty cabin, I basically agree with Minnewaska that a convenient head and maybe a place to heat some water.

Jeff


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## DCM

@Jeff_H I love the Pearson and bristol
The rainbow 24 looks nice actually too
Pearson 26 weekend seems like the cheapest tool for the job
Colgate my favorite but expensive relatively (I'm seeing $25K used)
The Catalina 22 Capri seems like it could work too


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## DCM

Step one is to apply for a slip and let fate decide
Of no slip, we’ll put a beetle cat in the barn and go from there


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## mstern

Smart move on the slip. Keeping the boat on a mooring might be a bit of an issue for you if there's no launch service. If you're sailing with that size crew, you would need at least two trips in the dinghy to get everyone aboard. I know that when I was considering the slip v. mooring question, I went for the slip, mostly because I knew that my wife and kids would be far more likely to come aboard from a dock than having to wrangle the dinghy. It's also MUCH easier to work on the boat when water and power are easily available.

Some other good ideas there for boats, but I fear that finding any of those will be difficult. Those are old models with small production runs. There just wasn't a big market for boats with big cockpits at the expense of berths below. And without beating the dead horse, you will need a head, even for just a daysailer. IMHO, the only boat that you are likely to find that will be able to sail with 8 or 9 people aboard is the Colgate. Drop the crew to 6, and I'd consider the Ensign to be a good choice too: available and generally affordable, even if it's not as good a sailer as the Colgate.


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## DCM

@mstern thanks that supports my thoughts on a slip

I am not sure about holding to a goal of fitting the whole family to start
If it is convenient to use it will likely usually be a few at a time and big group more rarely
I like Colgate best but not the price, might be better as an upgrade later especially while adjusting to the year round marina cost at first 
I keep coming back to Catalina 22 as a starter
Two have mentioned an ensign - I really like the Pearson version of that (and Pearson in general)


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## Jeff_H

mstern said:


> Smart move on the slip. Keeping the boat on a mooring might be a bit of an issue for you if there's no launch service. If you're sailing with that size crew, you would need at least two trips in the dinghy to get everyone aboard. I know that when I was considering the slip v. mooring question, I went for the slip, mostly because I knew that my wife and kids would be far more likely to come aboard from a dock than having to wrangle the dinghy. It's also MUCH easier to work on the boat when water and power are easily available.
> 
> Some other good ideas there for boats, but I fear that finding any of those will be difficult. Those are old models with small production runs. There just wasn't a big market for boats with big cockpits at the expense of berths below. And without beating the dead horse, you will need a head, even for just a daysailer. IMHO, the only boat that you are likely to find that will be able to sail with 8 or 9 people aboard is the Colgate. Drop the crew to 6, and I'd consider the Ensign to be a good choice too: available and generally affordable, even if it's not as good a sailer as the Colgate.


I don't mean to nitpick, but you may be able to seat 8-9 people in the cockpit of a Colgate while at the dock, but you can't safely sail one that way, even if (or especially if) a few are young children. .









Similarly, while you might seat 6 in the cockpit of an Ensign at the dock, you can't safely sail one with more than 4 agile people. (Don't ask how I know that or how long it takes to bail an Ensign after a knock down) 
















Jeff


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## mstern

DCM said:


> @mstern thanks that supports my thoughts on a slip
> 
> I am not sure about holding to a goal of fitting the whole family to start
> If it is convenient to use it will likely usually be a few at a time and big group more rarely
> I like Colgate best but not the price, might be better as an upgrade later especially while adjusting to the year round marina cost at first
> I keep coming back to Catalina 22 as a starter
> Two have mentioned an ensign - I really like the Pearson version of that (and Pearson in general)


I like the C22: there are about a jillion available so the prices tend to be low, it is generally a forgiving platform to learn on, and it has a head. If you are going to skip the trailering, I'd recommend looking for a fin keel model. They are not nearly as common as the swing keel, but they are more stable, can sail closer to the wind, and I found them stiffer than the swing keel version. When the wind really piped up, the C22 swing keel version would heel over pretty far and get a lot of weather helm. It took a lot of strength on the tiller to keep the boat from rounding up. I'm not sure it was designed to be this way, but I found that the rudder would lose its bite on the water at those heel angles and she would round up before the rail would go under the water. Safety feature? Learning tool? Design flaw? Who knows. Good boat. Made to a price point, so watch out for spongy decks, lights that don't work and leaky portholes. But if you take care of it, you should be able to sell it for what you paid.


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## DCM

@Jeff_H my thought on the Colgate is that it is fun and easy to sail in a variety of situations with a two or a few people
On a calm night it would probably be fine with 8+ people for an hour in the cove outlet to the river

But yes I am realizing these bug jumps in capacity like 4 adults is a lot for a Catalina 22 and it takes some significant jump in boat size before that number becomes 6 adults etc

Should I be looking at a Catalina 30?


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## mstern

Jeff_H said:


> I don't mean to nitpick, but you may be able to seat 8-9 people in the cockpit of a Colgate while at the dock, but you can't safely sail one that way, even if (or especially if) a few are young children. .
> View attachment 139776


A good point Jeff. Not a nit pick. The last time I sailed in a Colgate, we had three adults and two small children, and I my recollection is that there was lots and lots of room to spare. Four more people? Maybe not. But your photo reminds me of one other feature of the Colgate that I forgot to mention as a plus for a family: the stainless side deck rails, not life lines.


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## DCM

Other plus of Colgate is it seems like low maintenance
It looks like using a marina year round here will be $2 to $4K per year
My guess is that more traditional boats like a C30 or Pearson 26 would have another layer of ongoing cost despite the initial low purchase cost
Basically I don’t feel like paying to support a boat designed around a nice cabin I’m not interested in using much


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## DCM

There is a clean looking Catalina Capri 16 here but I assume that’s best for 2 people


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## Jeff_H

DCM said:


> There is a clean looking Catalina Capri 16 here but I assume that's best for 2 people


Yes


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## Arcb

DCM said:


> There is a clean looking Catalina Capri 16 here but I assume that's best for 2 people


If small boats turn your crank, check out a Hobie Getaway. Designed for 1000 pound capacity, so 5 adults or so. No boom to hit the kids heads, no traveller to jam the kids fingers and will smoke a lot of small keel boats on speed.

Down sides, no head and they aren't especially cheap. Well within your $25k budget. About $13k-14k new, but I saw one used recently for $4k. It was gone before I could write the guy a message though...


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## DCM

@Arcb thanks I think The smaller options won't work with my desire to get out to the sound
The catamaran looks cool though and does seem to be a good option for "topside" space


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## Arcb

DCM said:


> @Arcb thanks I think The smaller options won't work with my desire to get out to the sound
> The catamaran looks cool though and does seem to be a good option for "topside" space


Getaways are well designed boats. Catalina 22s were revolutionary boats when they were designed in the 1960s, but they are an over 50 year old design...

I wouldn't hesitate to take a Getaway out on a large Bay. Eye to the weather of course, but I would have an eye to the weather on a C22 too.


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## mstern

DCM said:


> @Jeff_H my thought on the Colgate is that it is fun and easy to sail in a variety of situations with a two or a few people
> On a calm night it would probably be fine with 8+ people for an hour in the cove outlet to the river
> 
> But yes I am realizing these bug jumps in capacity like 4 adults is a lot for a Catalina 22 and it takes some significant jump in boat size before that number becomes 6 adults etc
> 
> Should I be looking at a Catalina 30?


Four adults in the C22 works fine, so long as everyone realizes they will have to move or help. The issue is that someone is always sitting in front of the jib winches, and they will have to handle the lines during a tack or get out of the way. You can fit six adults in the cockpit of a C30 (or a C27 for that matter), but it's still the same issue. The cockpit on a C30 isn't so much bigger that someone can sit and just look pretty. Again, cabin comforts sell boats, not cockpit space. There are very few boats where cockpit space is the primary design criteria.


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## DCM

@mstern that makes sense

It keeps coming back to the Colgate
Just like I ended up realizing with the slip issue
If we are going to do it, best to set up in a way where it is convenient and easy to make part of a day
So it ends up being maybe $25K for the used boat and maybe $3.5 per year in slip, winter storage, marina, maintenance 
It seems like a lot but maybe not so bad if disciplined in other areas

thanks to everyone for the advice - very helpful


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## Minnewaska

DCM said:


> It keeps coming back to the Colgate


I'd be willing to bet, if family sailing didn't work out as planned, with a small discount to your purchase price, you could move it off to a sailing school fairly quickly. Liquidity has value.


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## gdr

+1 for the Colgate. They are great boats, and have a large cockpit for the size. As Minne suggested, if you don't like it, you should be able to flip it for most of what you pay. It's not likely to lose a lot of value in the short term if you take care of it. IMO - most of your lost capital will go to the slip and insurance and maintenance. If you can afford it, go with the better boat.


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## DCM

Getting rid of my motorcycle and it’s associated costs will cover a bit of the expenses 
A good pivot to a new hobby at 45 years old and one that everyone can participate in


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## gdr

DCM said:


> A good pivot to a new hobby at 45 years old and one that everyone can participate in


That's about the age that I started sailing, and I have never regretted it for even a micro-second. It's fun. It's engaging on a physical and intellectual level. It's a great way to spend time with family and friends. It's a fabulous way to vacation in interesting places all over the globe. You're gonna love it.


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## Arcb

gdr said:


> That's about the age that I started sailing, and I have never regretted it for even a micro-second. It's fun. It's engaging on a physical and intellectual level. It's a great way to spend time with family and friends. It's a fabulous way to vacation in interesting places all over the globe. You're gonna love it.


I have always sailed, but I ramped it way up when I had kids in my late 30s. It's just such a safe family freindly sport. Can't even think of another sport that is as family freindly.

I do strongly prefer trailerable sailboats though because they allow you to sail so many more areas, unless you are retired and have the time to go 1200 miles at 5 mph.


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## emcentar

Arcb said:


> If small boats turn your crank, check out a Hobie Getaway. Designed for 1000 pound capacity, so 5 adults or so. No boom to hit the kids heads, no traveller to jam the kids fingers and will smoke a lot of small keel boats on speed.


I'm going to second this recommendation. Beach cats are a ton of fun to sail, fast, and move even in light winds. The older kids are more likely to be interested in taking it out because beach cats are cool. It's trailerable and you can put it on a mooring ball for the season. I have an inflatable cat (a Minicat 420) that I take with me on vacations up north, and given a choice between taking a day sail on it or on the 'big boat' it's the Minicat hands down. I only keep the big boat because I love gunkholing on the Eastern Shore, not a real option on a trampoline


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## DCM

@Arcb @emcentar if I go with a small trailerable it will be a beetle cat - those boats just get me


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## Rich225

DCM said:


> Hello
> I am looking to buy my first sailboat. The use would be for daysailing with as much family aboard as reasonable (we have 7 kids ranging from 2 to 17 years old) and in Long Island and block island sound. There is a boatyard with mooring in my town so I am looking into a trailer option vs using the boatyard.
> 
> I am looking at options like Catalina 22, 25, 27, 30, and Colgate 26. I have remote and sporadic sailing experience and plan to get back o to it via local sailing school with the ASA courses. I've heard this area can be choppy and with unpredictable weather so that the C22 may not be sufficient even though I'm most interested in that one as a starter.
> 
> thanks for any advice!


Think Fog, Fog Fog in that area. Have a chart plotter and radar and know how to use both.


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## Aline

22catcapri said:


> This is out of the box, but I would buy two Catalina 22s. It would be easier to get more to the helm, could have family competitions, mixing crews...


Cool idea but Marina costs would be an expensive.


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## Calmwater

DCM said:


> Hello
> I am looking to buy my first sailboat. The use would be for daysailing with as much family aboard as reasonable (we have 7 kids ranging from 2 to 17 years old) and in Long Island and block island sound. There is a boatyard with mooring in my town so I am looking into a trailer option vs using the boatyard.
> 
> I am looking at options like Catalina 22, 25, 27, 30, and Colgate 26. I have remote and sporadic sailing experience and plan to get back o to it via local sailing school with the ASA courses. I've heard this area can be choppy and with unpredictable weather so that the C22 may not be sufficient even though I'm most interested in that one as a starter.
> 
> thanks for any advice!


I would first recommend taking the ASA courses you've mentioned plus seamanship courses - any possible course should be taken plus sea time. This is true especially with the plans to sail with a large family. That's before even thinking of any boat purchase.
And when the time comes - probably in a year or two, you'll find out the minimum boat size you can think of is a good keel boat (not a trailer sailer) of st least 30'. Catalina of late 90's onwards is one good brand to look at for this purpose. - but again, my recommendation is to do not purchase anything at this point.


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## Aline

Rich225 said:


> Think Fog, Fog Fog in that area. Have a chart plotter and radar and know how to use both.


I have 8 children so I get it. Although most of my children were grown before I got my Pearson 26 I've gone out with my Daughter, Son-in-Law and four grandchildren. We did just fine! Like all big families we are used to sharing space. With that precious cargo onboard, safely must be a priority above all else, with all on board don't venture too far. I like my Pearson because it's built like a tank and very stable and decent capsize ratio. What ever boat you get; Check and double check your weather window including wind and wave height, every sail, don't take any chances and check your emergency supplies. Install life line netting! Bring more food and water than you think you will need. Teach the kiddies proper use of your head, lol. Invest in good life jackets. Bring along a couple of toys for the little ones, practice getting in the boat from the water, before you all jump in for a swim, (Don't ask me) Of course bigger is better but if you play it safe and you should manage fine on a 26 to 30 footer. Happy sailing!


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## DCM

@Calmwater thanks, makes sense

@Aline I love hearing you have a Pearson 26 with that group - I keep looking at those, especially with the weekender cockpit
"Built like a tank" reminds me of the Volvo 240 of sailboats


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## Arcb

I don't think there is any need to go to a keel boat designed for a couple or small family.

What you need is a boat with a lot of space, which as often as not are open boats and multi hulls. If this wasn't a sailing site, I would recomend a 21 ft pontoon boat...

But as an example of a trailerable sailboat that I suspect could easily fit 9, checkout this Seine Dory (near the bottom of the page). Boat weight, 890 pounds, payload; 5400 pounds... - my brother is looking at having the smaller "Trawl built for cruising the Northumberland Straight with his family. Any way, this is just an example of an open trailerable boat with a big cockpit and huge payload, because I don't know what's locally available in your area.





__





Dories - The Dory Shop







doryshop.com


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## DCM

@Arcb that checks with what I've been thinking
I'd buy a Catalina 30 shortly because they are so available and affordable except it doesn't seem to have a lot more space of the type I'm looking for

that seine dory will be really cool

I just looked at a Marshall 15 sandpiper catboat partly because it may come with slip at our local marina - I bet would peak at 3-4 people max safely but still a really nice boat


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## JimsCAL

DCM said:


> @Calmwater thanks, makes sense
> 
> @Aline I love hearing you have a Pearson 26 with that group - I keep looking at those, especially with the weekender cockpit
> "Built like a tank" reminds me of the Volvo 240 of sailboats


I had a Pearson 26 in the 1980s. Not the biggest cockpit for a boat that size. Weekender version is a bit better. Not sure I would call the P26 "built like a tank", but it was maybe a bit better than some of the other boats of that era. Issues were the rudder bearings and the compression post base. But they are cheap today.


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## DCM

@JimsCAL funny you mention the mast base
I had a great uncle who had a P26 that dismasted at sea


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## rudolphs

I sail in the area. I keep a Catalina 30 in a slip in Noank. So this experience is regarding the Fishers Island Sound part of LI Sound.

The currents can be strong at either end of Fishers Island Sound, at Wicopesset Passage or the Race. The Catalina 30 just has enough sail power to handle the current there, that is do a seamanlike tack in a foul current when the current is full flood or ebb, near either end of Fishers Island Sound. I’ve watched a number of 30-40 footers run into significant trouble at Wicopesset Passage when the current was against what they wanted to do. Watch Hill Passage is a good bit tamer.

I leave Fishers Island Sound and take the Catalina 30 on a circumnavigation of Fishers Island every couple/few weeks. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a sailboat smaller than 30 feet on the Atlantic-exposed south side of Fisher’s Island, although I’m sure it’s done. I’ve been out to Block Island numerous times with the Catalina 30 and the same thing applies, I rarely see much of anything below 30 feet on that passage, although I know some very experienced friends who have gone to Block in a 27 footer.

How this seems to shake out is that on a good sailing-weather weekend you’ll see 40 or 50 sails having a blast inside on Fishers Island Sound, and only a couple/few sails outside of Fishers Island Sound where you’re more exposed. Sailors know what they’ll be getting into if they leave FI Sound, so they don’t.

I suspect that if you get a 27-footer or less you’ll find that Block Island Sound and Block Island is too much for her, especially with a big group aboard. But there’s tons and tons of fun and challenge to be had in the slightly more sheltered waters of Long/Fishers Island Sounds. Against my better wisdom, once I had 10 people in the cockpit of the Catalina 30 for a two-hour 15 knot sail. Nobody moved, experienced hands at each winch/station, would think hard before doing that again. Five people is just right, six is a crowd.


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## DCM

@rudolphs I'll probably be sailing out of Hamburg cove. I don't have a sense of what the sailing is like on the ct river or how long it would take to be out on the sound from there. If a lot of time is needed just for that I assume it would be rare for me to get up to the fishers island area.
I figure big group sail would be rare and in sheltered waters, while a few of us are interested in getting out further for more exciting sailing.
I've been leaning heavily to the Colgate 26 which I think would handle this spectrum the best but you've got me looking at the Catalina's again especially the 30s.


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## DCM

^^ is a "Capri 22" the same as a Catalina Capri 22?
Is this a reasonable advertisement that it takes 8 people comfortably?
Usually it seems the rental places are conservative in their capacity limits.


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## rudolphs

DCM said:


> View attachment 139810
> 
> ^^ is a "Capri 22" the same as a Catalina Capri 22?
> Is this a reasonable advertisement that it takes 8 people comfortably?
> Usually it seems the rental places are conservative in their capacity limits.


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## rudolphs

If you end up with something trailerable, we had huge family fun, five kids but not all at once, launching our Catalina Capri 14.2 in Little Narraganset Bay in Stonington from the St of CT boat launch at Barn Island. Salt water "ocean" sailing, fairly sheltered, sail over to Napatree Point or Sandy Point, can be busy. Great way to get in the sound but stay safe. Three people in the Catalina Capri 14.2 was just right, other family members followed along in kayaks.


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## DCM

@rudolphs even if we get a trailerable daysailer, I'll keep it at Hamburg cove at least during the sailing season for ease of use - it's a nice location and close to us
They have a Marshall 15 sandpiper for sale there now


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## sailingfool

DCM said:


> View attachment 139810
> 
> ^^ is a "Capri 22" the same as a Catalina Capri 22?
> Is this a reasonable advertisement that it takes 8 people comfortably?
> Usually it seems the rental places are conservative in their capacity limits.


The Capri 22 and Catalina 22 have nothing in common other than being made by Catalina. I guess 8 adults can fit in a Capri cockpit, I am not too sure about the comfortable comment. I'd say that is a stretch especially if the adults are the new American size (note how inspected launches have recently reduced their people capacity by 20% or so...)


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## DCM

@sailingfool the Capri 22 is tempting because I've seen used ones for $12k ish and the marina costs would be cheaper since the charge is per foot. We would usually have only a few aboard but it's be nice to have the option for more in the right circumstances and my family are all pretty light. Means Capri 22 could be a good starter if I can't find a good Colgate option.


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## JimsCAL

It's a LONG haul from Hamburg Cove to the Sound. Don't think I'd want to do that round trip every time I went for a sail. With a smaller boat sailing on the river is an option.


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## DCM

@JimsCAL any thoughts on the best way to take advantage of the cove? Maybe lean more toward a 22 or catboat?

If 22 still have option to take a long daysail to sound here and there I guess


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## mstern

JimsCAL said:


> It's a LONG haul from Hamburg Cove to the Sound. Don't think I'd want to do that round trip every time I went for a sail. With a smaller boat sailing on the river is an option.


I never understood the popularity of the Cove and Essex with larger sailboats; downtown Essex is really cool and the marina is very nice, but what a haul to the Sound from there. I figured it had to be at least an hour under power to get to the mouth of the river from Essex. I agree that you can sail on the river, especially with a smaller boat; but that seems to me to be a very limiting option.


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## DCM

@mstern the proximity of Hamburg cove to my house is what got me thinking along the lines of buying a sailboat.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to take advantage. Assuming 1.5 hours pilot to the sound from the cove, I wonder if a smaller boat most frequently used in the river with 2-3 people but capable of a day out to the sound rarely is best = Capri or Catalina 22 with decent outboard


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## 22catcapri

DCM said:


> View attachment 139810
> 
> ^^ is a "Capri 22" the same as a Catalina Capri 22?
> Is this a reasonable advertisement that it takes 8 people comfortably?
> Usually it seems the rental places are conservative in their capacity limits.


The claim is reasonable. You could seat 8 reasonably-sized adults aboard. The issue could be the "choreography" of folks when you tack, to get the heel angle you're comfortable with.


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## mstern

DCM said:


> @mstern the proximity of Hamburg cove to my house is what got me thinking along the lines of buying a sailboat.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out the best way to take advantage. Assuming 1.5 hours pilot to the sound from the cove, I wonder if a smaller boat most frequently used in the river with 2-3 people but capable of a day out to the sound rarely is best = Capri or Catalina 22 with decent outboard


If you want to sail, IMHO you would be much better off keeping your boat near the mouth of the river. Sailing in the river is kind of constricted, and you have to deal with all of the yahoos in powerboats in that narrow area. And getting downriver in a small boat with an outboard will be quite the to-do. Sailing in the Sound is quite beautiful, and you have so many destinations relatively close at hand. The river; not so much.


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## Minnewaska

mstern said:


> getting downriver in a small boat with an outboard will be quite the to-do.


Fully agree. Isn't it only a 15 min or so drive to the coast from there? I would not pin myself down.


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## DCM

@mstern @Minnewaska it looks like old Saybrook may be an option (and have more slip availability)
Hamburg cove is a really awesome place but yeah maybe it's not the best option to be slipped at


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## Arcb

Compac Horizon Day Cat. Cockpit is over 10 ft 10ng with more than an 8 ft beam. Highly trailerable and still has a head below and Ice box.





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The Horizon Day Cat from Com-Pac Yachts


The Horizon Day Cat is a classic daysailer with room for you and your friends - a real Cape Cod cat with a shallow fin keel for added stability and windward performance.




www.com-pacyachts.com


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## DCM

@Arcb that looks awesome
I've been looking more along those lines
The Herreshoff 12 1/2 looks great (although less passenger capacity)
There is an Arey pond 18' open cockpit daysailer
It's too expensive but it's cool seeing it with the electric inboard fitted


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## DCM

The com pac legacy sport sloop also looks really nice




__





Com-Pac Legacy Sport from Com-Pac Yachts


The Com-Pac Legacy Sport offers all the fun of the Com-Pac Legacy but with a larger cockpit to make room for more friends.




www.com-pacyachts.com


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## mstern

DCM said:


> The com pac legacy sport sloop also looks really nice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Com-Pac Legacy Sport from Com-Pac Yachts
> 
> 
> The Com-Pac Legacy Sport offers all the fun of the Com-Pac Legacy but with a larger cockpit to make room for more friends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.com-pacyachts.com


That's a nice looking boat with a big cockpit. I do suggest you sail a Compac before you buy one. Well made and easy to trailer to be sure, but those stub keels have some disadvantages. The only Compac I sailed on was years ago, but I remember the boat was somewhat tender. And to put it charitably, it was not a close-winded boat. We made lots of leeway, and I was glad that we weren't trying to get anywhere in particular upwind. The boat just couldn't point well. Like I said, it was many years ago, but I remember my disappointment as I loved the looks and quality of the boat. Just wasn't impressed with the sailability.


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## Arcb

Compacs Cat boats are centreboard + stub keel. Horizon Cat has a 5 ft draft board down. In my experience Cat boats make up some for their wider tacking angles when short tacking with their ease of sailing, especially with passengers on board- just push the tiller over, no messing around with the jib, no jib winches in the way.


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## mstern

Arcb said:


> Compacs Cat boats are centreboard + stub keel. Horizon Cat has a 5 ft draft board down. In my experience Cat boats make up some for their wider tacking angles when short tacking with their ease of sailing, especially with passengers on board- just push the tiller over, no messing around with the jib, no jib winches in the way.


Thanks for the info. I didn't see that this boat had a centerboard. That ought to make things better. The Compac I was on (a 23?) many years ago certainly didn't have one; it sure could have used it.


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## DCM

Does anyone have any thoughts on a Nonsuch 26C or 30?

So far I’ve found mooring closer to LIS in Old Lyme but it still looks like a good deal of piloting to get out there.


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## Arcb

Nice, spacious, user freindly boats. They tend to be expensive. But they are good boats for a lot of people. We have a buddy with a 26 in Eastern Lake Ontario and the 1000 islands and the boat does well sailing around there.


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## Arcb

You could also look for a Naiad 18. Big open keelboat day sailers with the same wishbone style Cat Rig as nonsuch's. Would probably be more practical as a day sailor, and trailerable. Maybe big enough for your whole family.









Naiad 18 - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org


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## DCM

@Arcb thanks
There is a nice 26C locally for about $20K and a 30 for a little more

That Naiad looks cool too - I'm going to look into it


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## DCM

Hi everyone,
Thanks again for the comments. I am getting close to making a purchase and have narrowed it down to a 1988 Catalina 30 and a Bristol 29.9 both in good condition.

My plan is to begin with a slip in Westbrook so that I can get a couple sails in over the winter and then probably move it up to Hamburg cove at the end of next summer to keep close to home from then on. That will allow easy evenings on the boat close to home, mooring in the outer cove for swims and local motorsailing to see the swallows or go in the river for foliage. This means a low draft boat like a catboat or island packet would make the most sense but I ultimately a most excited for a keelboat sloop to take in LIS even if a majority of the time is inland coastal. Talking to local owners, it appears that a 5 foot draft isn't an issue except at the lowest of tides. Longer term, I'd like to plan some trips beginning with Mystic and Block Island, then maybe Hyannis, then maybe ultimately Maine and NYC if all that goes well.

The Catalina 30 was incredibly spacious when we went aboard. It seems like it would handle our family without issue and be a practical boat for us. I love the traditional build and wood work of the Bristol. I would also enjoy winter projects like making a couple butterfly hatches to replace the existing hatches with. The Bristol also has the advantage of a foot less draft. All together, I am leaning to the C30 because I think it may work out the best to live with in family life.

Thanks again for any input!


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## SanderO

I moored one season at Old Lyme Marina. My thoughts:
It was easy to get to by car. (a bit far however to drive from Westchester)
No parking or dink storage problem
Close to shopping for provisioning
too much noise from traffic going to and from I95 - trucks and motorcycles
too many mosquitoes
current was annoying (to me) boat would lie to current not to wind
Mooring was more difficult in river currents than in a bay
access to "the Sound" was a bit long - required a bridge opening
docking for fuel was also more a hassle because of currents


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## DCM

@SanderO i spoke with them - owner and son were great. It’s a bit further down the road from us and doesn’t have some of the activities available at Hamburg cove.

It may be that being in Westbrook ends up permanent because of being on the ocean (and boat can stay in the water year round) but I’m thinking Hamburg will be nice for all the added lifestyle and proximity benefits. And for LIS, I think I’d rather pilot for 1.5 hours than drive 45 minutes but that may change once I experience what we end up really doing once having the boat.


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## SanderO

DCM said:


> @SanderO i spoke with them - owner and son were great. It’s a bit further down the road from us and doesn’t have some of the activities available at Hamburg cove.
> 
> It may be that being in Westbrook ends up permanent because of being on the ocean (and boat can stay in the water year round) but I’m thinking Hamburg will be nice for all the added lifestyle and proximity benefits. And for LIS, I think I’d rather pilot for 1.5 hours than drive 45 minutes but that may change once I experience what we end up really doing once having the boat.


Everyone will do what works for them.
I do like to get out "saling" without a having to follow a long "path". I had a mooring in Dering Harbor, Stirling Harbor and Sag Harbor and all of these spot I could be in Gardiner's Bay in "no time"... lots of harbors to fit there and access to CT, RI was great. Great sailing in the "east end".
We definitely prefer a mooring to a slip because we often will just hang out for a weekend or more on the boat because the location was so pleasant... Weather (as for sailing) is not an issue. 
I do winter in water in a marina which is close to home... I can visit the boat with less hassle and work projects are easier to do. Occasionally I winter store on the hard. The main pain for me has been the end of season moving the boat and then getting the car which is left behind. 
Another concern is a dinghy slip and parking...


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## DCM

@SanderO that is an aspect of mooring at Hamburg that I think would work well - the dinghy dock that comes with mooring. I was thinking of getting a fatty knees or similar so that the dinghy could not only be the way out to the boat but also something to enjoy in the cove on its own right. 

Similar to what you said it seems a lot of families here go out to their boat on the mooring for grill and swimming because it is a nice spot.


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## GaryLott

DCM said:


> Hello
> I am looking to buy my first sailboat. The use would be for daysailing with as much family aboard as reasonable (we have 7 kids ranging from 2 to 17 years old) and in Long Island and block island sound. There is a boatyard with mooring in my town so I am looking into a trailer option vs using the boatyard.
> 
> I am looking at options like Catalina 22, 25, 27, 30, and Colgate 26. I have remote and sporadic sailing experience and plan to get back o to it via local sailing school with the ASA courses. I’ve heard this area can be choppy and with unpredictable weather so that the C22 may not be sufficient even though I’m most interested in that one as a starter.
> 
> thanks for any advice!


I have a 26ft MacGregor 1996. If you are interested reach out I think you will like the sale price.


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## DCM

@GaryLott thanks. As of yesterday I am in the process of buying a 1994 C30.


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## DCM




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