# C&C 33, 35 and 38



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Looking at these boats why is the 38 the cheapest of the three? All the same years but the 38 seems to be the boat that has not held it's value.

CLiff


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Cliff-

There are two versions of the C&C 38. The regular C&C 38 and the C&C 38 Landfall, which was more cruising oriented.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I know about the Landfall series I am not talking about the the Landfall. I am talking about the 38-1

Cliff


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Just checking...


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## TIKI TIME (Mar 22, 2006)

*C&C owners website*

Have you tried posting this question on the C&C owners web site. They may be able to help. 
Here is the link- C&C Yachts - C&C Photo Album & Resource Center

Terry


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

FWIW both the 33 and the 38 as sold didn't have much for amenities or interior space, due to the sloping forward deck, very race-oriented whereas the 35 mark II was a much more wll rounded design, very good performance but more head room and comforts down below. I'd rather spend a week on a 35 than a 38...and i think that affects value.

Not to say tha the 38 isn't a delightful sailing boat, just that it is more rich as a racer than as a cruiser. Racing boats jsut don;'t hold valu the way a good general purpose boat does.


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

I think the 38 would make a fine cruiser; as to why the 33/35 have held better value I can't say for sure. It might be differences in how the current boats are equipped or maintained/upgraded; larger older boats tend to fall into disrepair due to the cost of maintenance whereas a smaller boat might be more affordable for an owner with a tight budget. So the 33/35's currently available -might- be in better condition and therefore have held better overall value. If you buy a larger boat for less; be prepared to spend more making it into a cruise-ready boat because you initially paid less money per foot of boat. That's not to say that you would not be getting a good value for the less expensive 38' boat; but just be ready to spend what it takes in money and time to bring it up to par with a smaller yet better equipped ~33/35' boat.

Check out this guy's Landfall 38 and the _complete_ refit he has done. It will also give you some ideas about what things to look for in a used boat; he fully admits that this boat was a basket case when he bought it.

C&C Landfall 38 - Stella Blue


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Keelhaulin,

That is what I thought coming from a J 29 we want a boat that is fast and has the racey feel and the sail controls where they should be. We wanted low free board, traveler in the cockpit and a niced sized v berth plus we like the sleek look of the 38. On Lake Erie the taller rig will help on the lite air days and the cost from a 35 to a 38 on hauling and storage is minimal. 

Cliff


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## sailstoo (Aug 4, 2008)

*Thoughts on the C&C 38*

I race crew on a friends C&C 38. It's about 30 years old but still in nice shape; well equipped and maintained OK. Tough...make that impossible to sail to its rating in light air, especially against more contemporary designs, and the overhangs and skinny ends put a hurt on interior volume for cruising...but that was the IOR. They also lack ventilation with those fixed windows and minimal hatches. Having said all that, I'm looking for a 32 or 34 as a cruiser because they sail well and are great values. Gotta watch out for wet core though.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

The C&C 38 is a big, heavy boat that takes a full crew to handle unless it's set up with pricey gear which... can break. Having to find crew makes boats lose price points compared to others. Having to buy 3/4" sheets instead of 1/2" sheets makes boats lose price points compared to others. Having to buy $80 snatch blocks instead of $50 snatch blocks adds up after a while, too, and makes boats lose price points compared to others. It goes on and on. The 38 is also pretty deep, which limits cruising grounds. Below, the cabin offers a pretty huge space for crew and gear to get thrown about in, since there are few handholds and (in keeping with the goal of racing) little space for secure stowage as originally built. The 35 is much "tighter" in terms of stowage and area below, and therefore safer in a seaway. To compare performance, the 38 rates 114 PHRF on Lake Erie and the 35 (Mk I) rates 129. Neither one looks to be fantastic in light air (see testimonial from sailstoo above) though the bigger boat might be able to snag more breeze with its taller mast. The 33 is a pretty boat that sails well upwind (rating 150) and is obvously easier to sail shorthanded than the 38 would be. The tiny main is ridiculous, however in terms of any drive, and forces having a huge jib to get the boat to move. The 33 can also be quite squirrelly downwind when the pinched transom and IOR "bustle" come into play. I believe Practical Sailor has good input on these boats in their "Practical Boat Buying" books, which may be available in your local library if you don't want to buy them.


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

Uh... We doublehand my C&C (Newport) 41 in everything from light wind to 35kts; which BTW is the blueprint boat for the 38. I don't find it squirrly or a "broach coach"; it sails fine when correctly canvased and is a thrill to sail in heavy air. There was a C&C 38 recently listed for sale on Latitude 38 that had reportedly circumnavigated twice; so it can be converted and sailed as a cruiser to just about anywhere you want to go.

These boats (the N-41 and the C&C 38) have hull forms that go back to the very first C&C racing hulls (Red Jacket; and the Redline 41). They were *NOT* IOR warhorses; but tail-end CCA era boats that were adapted to IOR by reducing mainsail area and keeping the large-J masthead rig. The Redline 41 had an 18' boom while my boat only has a 13.5 foot boom on essentially the same hull. That is why it is not so great in light wind unless you are flying a kite; it needs more mainsail area. Not a problem for us on SF Bay; it's easier to sail the smaller mainsail and then reef the jib if needed to balance out the sailplan.

Also; I can't say for sure if the C&C 38 MK-I was a cored hull or not. The Landfall 38 is; but the earlier design of the N-41 is solid FRP so the best place to find out about the MK-I might be to ask over on the C&C forums.
JMHO...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

C&C 38 -1 does have a cored hull and the C&C forums don't seem too be visited too often. I also don't believe I will need a full crew to sail the boat and most of the time Lake Erie is a light air lake. I just have not found a better boat so far that meet my want's. Almost every boat I have looked at is more than I want to spend or has the traveler on the cabin top. 


Cliff


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

Cliff-

Go to this website:

C&C Yachts - C&C Photo Album & Resource Center

Then click on the link titled "forum" (not the "C&C groups" tab). Everyone that was formerly on the sailnet e-mail group has migrated over to that website.

Oh; I see you did post there; good. Hopefully some replies will come back soon...


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## rolla (Jan 7, 2009)

Cliff, did you end up buying the c&c 38? I am looking at one in Seattle so was curious. Also, where on Lake Erie do you sail? My folks have a powerboat at Catawba and I get there from time to time.


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

CliffR said:


> C&C 38 -1 does have a cored hull and the C&C forums don't seem too be visited too often. I also don't believe I will need a full crew to sail the boat and most of the time Lake Erie is a light air lake. I just have not found a better boat so far that meet my want's. Almost every boat I have looked at is more than I want to spend or has the traveler on the cabin top.
> 
> Cliff


I had a C&C 36 and do not agree that it took a lot of people to sail it. I would singlehand it when I couldn't get any company. And it felt positively light compared to my present boat.


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## doubleeboy (Jul 21, 2008)

rolla said:


> Cliff, did you end up buying the c&c 38? I am looking at one in Seattle so was curious. Also, where on Lake Erie do you sail? My folks have a powerboat at Catawba and I get there from time to time.


Rolla,

Back in November we looked at several C&C 38s in the Seattle area, which one are you interested in?

michael


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## rolla (Jan 7, 2009)

Hey Michael,

Sailnet won't allow me to paste in the link exactly so you'll have to reconstruct. It's this one: 

yachtworld /core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1949301&checked_boats=1949301&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=74939&url=

I haven't seen any other 38s in the area unless you count the new 115s....


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## doubleeboy (Jul 21, 2008)

As far as I know there is a 77 at Gig Harbor Yacht sales and a 87 at Mahina.

If the one Mahina has was in good shape I would of been all over it. The 77 is nice but old, no self tailing winches, lots of goodies though, auto helm,radar, life raft, nice batteries, etc. I suspect the sails(lots of em) on the Gig Harbor boat are older, at least the main looked a bit tired when I peaked under the cover.

Rumor has it on the 77, that owner wants offers, The head hoses stinks on that boat, job #1 for new owner in my opinion. All in all I think the 77 is a well maintained boat, lots of custom features, grab rails, ports, inverter. Does have some cracking in the gel coat in places, but nothing horrendous if I recall right.

michael


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## rolla (Jan 7, 2009)

thanks for the additional info. somehow i had missed the newer one at mahina. you say the '87 is in poor shape?


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## doubleeboy (Jul 21, 2008)

Rolla, I don't think its necessarily in real bad shape, but neglected. Looks like it hasn't been out in a while, scum something fierce at the water line, inside of boat was damp, lines were beat, lots of crazing in the gel coat, looked older than a lot of 1980s boats I have seen. As I recall, nice big ST winches, just seemed very overpriced. A dealer owns it, my dealer at the time showed it to me. Listing dealer was so cheap he wouldn't pay a commission on sale to my broker if we bought it, said he would pay my broker $1000 for a finders fee. What really peed me off , was it was represented as being in excellent condition and it clearly wasn't. We wasted an afternoon taking ferry over there, etc. I got the feeling that the boat had been raced hard and often in a previous life. Also had corrosion on life lines, rigging. I would bet no one has rubbed out or waxed that boat in years.

It is a Mark 3 deep keel, so the boat is fast maybe 20 points faster than the Gig Harbor one, but to me if you ask top dollar boat needs to be top shelf, I kind of feel (probably wrongly) that people who fib about condition and ask top dollar aren't going to deal and its best to look elsewhere. Just my way of seeing things though. 

If you don't need the speed of the Mark 3, I think the 1977 is a better boat, certainly someone loved that boat, it shows. As I said it needs the head done, probably a sail or two, and for those of us who grew on ST winches it needs em or at least those blue rubber suedo self tailor gizmos.

Hope my rambling helps
michael


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Having owned a 1985 C&C35 MKIII k/c for the last 15 years I would not characterize it as a slow boat. On the contrary it has a 129 rating and we do very well in club races and Wed night races against larger production boats and usually blow away other in our footage range. She points quite well with the jib tracks well inside near the coach roof. Does well in light air and medium up to 18 knots. Usually tender if not reefed at the 22 knot mark, but is well balanced when done. She gets her real legs in the 8-15 knot range. She has many ammenities the 33 doesnt as well as a larger head area which is important when there is no seperate shower stall. Great headroom at 6'2 which is lacking in both the 38 and 33 with the radically sloped coachroof. The only two comporable like boats I would have considered were the 37 Tartan and 38 Sabre in terms of speed and cruising comfort.

The price difference you see is the amenities as well as condition of the boats you are looking at I beleive.

C&C are good quality boats in the years 71-90. They have slipped mighti;y in recent years and do not reflect their strong heritage of years past.

Dave


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## rolla (Jan 7, 2009)

thanks for the beta! and saving me a trip to bremerton


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