# VHF license??



## Crunch (Jul 11, 2008)

I can not find a clear answer if a VHF license is required for a boat under 65' and cruising gulf and carribean countries\islands... 
any input????


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## HerbDB (Sep 30, 2000)

I reasearched this last year before we went down to the Bahamas and concluded it was required. I went ahead and applied for the station license for our boat. During our travels, no one seemed to care one way or the other and while I did not do a scientific survey, I don't think many boats had the license.


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## gtod25 (Aug 5, 2000)

*The legal answer is YES....*

if you plan to leave US waters. The reality is that I have never been asked for one in the Caribbean. Put it on the "nice to do" list and delegate it to someone else.

The Incredible Hull


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

*IF the boat is a US-boat, either state registered or USCG Documented, a Ship's Station License and a Restricted Radio Operator's License are both required if the boat is communicating with foreign stations-either boats or shore stations. * Cruising to the Caribbean, Mexico or Central America will REQUIRE licensing, since they are foreign stations.



Crunch said:


> I can not find a clear answer if a VHF license is required for a boat under 65' and cruising gulf and carribean countries\islands...
> any input????


BTW, a google search for *"Vhf use FCC" *brought up this webpage, which says:



> *Federal Communications Commission (FCC) Radio License Information
> 
> * An FCC ship station radio license is no longer required for any vessel travelling in U.S. waters which uses a VHF marine radio, radar or EPIRB, and which is not required to carry radio equipment.* A license is necessary however for any vessel required to carry a marine radio, on an international voyage, or carrying an HF single sideband radiotelephone or marine satellite terminal. *FCC license forms, including applications for ship and land station radio licenses, can now be downloaded from the FCC website.


Exactly, how is that not clear, given your plans??? IMHO, you must not have searched very hard.


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## badsanta (Oct 16, 2006)

I know you can get it yourself, but I paid an online company to do it for me. I had tried to do the government online form and could not figure it out. This guy did it for me and I received the ship station, operators the mmsi number and received it in 2 days. I was planning a Canadian trip.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Here, I'll make it easy, you need to fill out and submit form FCC form #605, here's the link:

FCC Form 605

You will need a restricted license for yourself and a ships license for the boat.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BTW, the RRO is lifetime... the Ships Station license is good for ten years. Prices are $65 and $160 IIRC.


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## windward54 (Apr 12, 2000)

It is easy to do and can be done on line now. You don't even need to download a form, just have a little patience and a credit card. The system will actually walk you through it. And remember to check that you need a new DSC number. I was also advised that I might as well check everything that I was planning on installing as it saves going back later and modifying the license. So if you are going to install a SSB, go ahead and check it off. And like Kevin said, don't forget to get both the restricted radio operator's license and the ship license. Just need to get your FCC Registration Number (FRN) and you are in.


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## Tropiccafe (Sep 11, 2006)

A radio license you may get away with for many years but there is always the chance when returning you are stopped for a safety check. Also there are times when a boat is inspected upon re-entry....No license might mean a heavy fine or worse. I like to play it safe especially at a time when homeland security makes things just a little bit different.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

A minor detail: If your vessel is required to have a license and is found without one, it is a mire $10,000 fine from Uncle Charlie (FCC). So think carefully about whether you will be wanting to skip getting one or not.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

A US recreational vessel is not required to have a VHF license. Neither the FCC nor the USCG will be checking for one when you enter US waters. Neither would--or could--penalize you for not having one.

More of concern, is that if you are operating a VHF overseas and THAT country requires a license for touristas....You can be in a whoile world of pain. US radio policies are liberal and generous compared to most of the world. For instance, in China, unauthorized radio operations OR simple possession of unauthorized transmitters, is grounds for espionage charges.

A simple call to the FCC's toll-free licensing bureau will get you all the information you need, direct from the source.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I believe you're wrong, since the FCC requires a US-registry recreational vessel to have a Ship's Station License and one person aboard with a Restricted Radio Operator's License at a minimum if you are communicating with FOREIGN stations. So if you contact a Mexican, Canadian or Caribbean radio operator, you may be required to have an RRO Permit and SS License.

If US Customs has you checking in and the USCG has you as checking in, they very well could ask to see your FCC licenses and would have the right to nail you for not having the required ones.

From the FCC website:



> *Who Needs a Ship Station License*
> 
> You do not need a license to operate a marine VHF radio, radar, or EPIRBs aboard voluntary ships operating domestically. The term "voluntary ships" refers to ships that are not required by law to carry a radio. Generally, this term applies to recreation or pleasure craft. The term "voluntary ships" does not apply to the following:
> Cargo ships over 300 gross tons navigating in the open sea;
> ...





hellosailor said:


> A US recreational vessel is not required to have a VHF license. Neither the FCC nor the USCG will be checking for one when you enter US waters. Neither would--or could--penalize you for not having one.
> 
> More of concern, is that if you are operating a VHF overseas and THAT country requires a license for touristas....You can be in a whoile world of pain. US radio policies are liberal and generous compared to most of the world. For instance, in China, unauthorized radio operations OR simple possession of unauthorized transmitters, is grounds for espionage charges.
> 
> A simple call to the FCC's toll-free licensing bureau will get you all the information you need, direct from the source.


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## skyellab (Aug 7, 2006)

If you have any questions contact us at (877) 480-3201.

Thank You!

Summary : How do I file online?
Description : How do I file online?
Solution Description : 
In accordance with the provisions of the Telecommunications Act of 1996, the FCC eliminated the individual radio station licensing requirement for certain ships operating domestically. See website FCC: Wireless Services: Ship Radio Stations: About.

Ships operating domestically that are not required by law or treaty to carry a radio on the vessel, do not travel to foreign ports (i.e. Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, and British Virgin Islands), and do not use marine radio equipment on board the vessel other than Marine VHF radios EPIRBs (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon) or radar, are not required to renew their current license.

To determine if you require an FCC Ship Radio Station License, answer the following questions:

Are you required by law or treaty to carry a radio on your vessel? 
Does your vessel travel to foreign ports? 
Do you have marine radio equipment on board your vessel other than marine VHF radios, EPIRBs (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon), or radar?

If you answered "Yes" to any of these questions, you must apply for a FCC Ship Radio Station License. If you answered "No" to all of these questions, then you do not require a license. If you are required to obtain the ship license you will also need to obtain a restricted operators permit (RR). See website FCC - Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit (RP) for more information on the requirements for the permit.

Electronic filers need to utilize the following website: FCC Universal Licensing System (ULS): ULS Home. If you do not have a FCC Registration Number (FRN), click "Register" under the New User tab. Continue through the steps until you receive a FRN then proceed to Online Filing.

"Log In", under the Online Filing heading, with your FRN and password. If you do not have your password and you have previously set a Personal Security Question (PSQ) go to web site FCC: Wireless Telecommunications Bureau select Reset Password. Enter your FRN and answer the PSQ which will allow you to reset your password. If you have not set the PSQ go to web site FCC Support and submit a reset password form or call (877) 480-3201 for assistance. 
On the "My Licenses" screen, click the link Apply for a New License. 
Select Radio Service SA or SB-Ship License. 
Answer the questions on the following screens. Navigate through each screen by clicking on the Continue button. 
Review the certification statements and sign your application by typing your name in the appropriate boxes. Then, click submit button. We recommend that you print a copy of the "Application confirmation" page which includes the application file number. 
If any application fees are due, ULS will calculate those fees. Fees for online filing MUST be received within 10 calendar days of the filing. Click "Continue For Payment Options" button to make selection of "Pay By Credit Card" or "View Form 159". FCC highly recommends online electronic payment, by credit card, using our secure website. If you are paying manually using FCC Form 159 (Remittance Advice), send the application package to: Federal Communications Commission, P.O. Box 979097, St. Louis, MO 63197-9000. Hand or courier delivery only to: U.S. Bank, Attn: FCC Government Lockbox #979097, SL-MO-C2-GL, 1005 Convention Plaza, St. Louis, MO 63101. 
For a manual filing use the FCC 605 Main Form ?Quick-Form Application for Authorization in the Ship, Aircraft, Amateur, Restricted and Commercial Operator, and General Mobile Radio Services?, 605 Schedule B? Additional Data for the Ship Radio Service (Part 80)?and Form 159 ?Remittance Advice Form? are required. If you currently do not have an FCC Registration Number (FRN), Form 160 CORES Registration would also be needed for a manual filing. These forms can be obtained via web site: Federal Communications Commission Forms Available via Internet. The entire application package should be sent to: Federal Communications Commission, P. O. Box 979097, St. Louis, MO 63197-9000.

Should you have any further questions, or need additional information, please submit a request through FCC Support or call the ULS Customer Support Hotline at 1-877-480-3201 and select option 2 at the main menu recording.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

SD-
You prove both points:
"if you are communicating with FOREIGN stations. "
That's an option, not a given.

"From the FCC website:
...Quote:
Who Needs a Ship Station License
...You do not need a license to operate a marine VHF radio, radar, or EPIRBs aboard voluntary ships operating domestically."

And that's the trump card. Rec vessels don't need one for domestic operation, and NEVER need one simply for possession and installation. Nor is one needed to communicate with foreign flagged vessels if you are inside US waters, from what I understand or misunderstand of it.


In addition, an EPIRB may be registered as a PLB and assigned to a person, rather than a vessel. This is to allow delivery crews to carry their own legally registered gear, without a vessel being permanently attached to it, the same way that my last VHF license was issued as a "portable" license that is attached to me--and not a vessel.

I've also asked both FCC and USCG sources about the infamous scary "The USCG is going to check your licenses" and both parties have replied that unless someone is reporting you for iillegal actions--they have neither the time nor budget to bother with that. Turn it off, pull the fuse, unplug it, or unplug the microphone and according to all FCC regulations it is no longer a transmitter and no longer requires any license, at all, any time. (That's also how they expect a "control operator" to assert secure control over their radio/station, by physically disabling it. At that point it is no longer capable of transmitting, so it becomes a receiver that needs no license.)

Bottom line, unless you are planning to use it OUTSIDE the US, no rec vessel needs a VHF license. (And, fwiw, the FCC has neither the time nor interest to enforce US regulations on vessels outside US waters--unless someone makes a complaint about them. They routinely ignore US vessels using VHF's in Canada, as do the Canadians.)


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

HS-

First of all, I did say:



> So if you contact a Mexican, Canadian or Caribbean radio operator, you may be required to have an RRO Permit and SS License.
> 
> If US Customs has you checking in and the USCG has you as checking in, they very well could ask to see your FCC licenses and would have the right to nail you for not having the required ones.


Which you seem to be ignoring.



> I've also asked both FCC and USCG sources about the infamous scary "The USCG is going to check your licenses" and both parties have replied that unless someone is reporting you for iillegal actions--they have neither the time nor budget to bother with that. Turn it off, pull the fuse, unplug it, or unplug the microphone and according to all FCC regulations it is no longer a transmitter and no longer requires any license, at all, any time. (That's also how they expect a "control operator" to assert secure control over their radio/station, by physically disabling it. At that point it is no longer capable of transmitting, so it becomes a receiver that needs no license.)


Also, many VHF units nowadays do not have a separate mike, so you can not disable the unit's ability to transmit without damaging it. Simply turning it off or removing the fuse seems to be a farce, and if you documentation on that being acceptable, I'd love to see it.


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

"...Nor is one needed to communicate with foreign flagged vessels if you are inside US waters, from what I understand or misunderstand of it."

You misunderstand. If you communicate with foreign vessels or stations -- even if you are in U.S. waters -- you MUST have both a VHF station license and at least a Restricted Marine Operator's license.

I really don't know why this is so hard to understand, nor why so many folks seem to want to skirt the requirement.

Get the licenses and, while you're at it, check all the boxes even if you don't now have the equipment. Then you're covered and meet both U.S. and international regulations.

If you are confused by the forms or don't have the time, let someone get the licenses for you. Dockside Radio, inter alia, does this for a nominal fee:
Pactor-II/III Radio Modem sales/support, FCC License filing, Marine SSB & HAM Radio Net schedules/frequencies.

Bill


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## whroeder (Aug 20, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> *IF the boat is a US-boat, either state registered or USCG Documented, a Ship's Station License and a Restricted Radio Operator's License are both required if the boat is communicating with foreign stations-either boats or shore stations. * Cruising to the Caribbean, Mexico or Central America will REQUIRE licensing, since they are foreign stations.


If your outside the US, then who cares what the US law says?


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

Jeez....

The requirement for licensing is INTERNATIONAL -- that means countries outside the U.S. Believe it or not, other countries have rules, too, and they sometimes enforce them more vigorously than we do.

The requirement for licenses when communicating with foreign entities is pursuant to agreed-upon regulations under the International Telecommunications Union.

While the U.S. sometimes doesn't honor it's international agreements these days, that doesn't negate the fact that the regulations exist and have been codified by all members of the ITU.

Radiocommunication Sector (ITU-R) - ITU-R Home


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## Allanbc (Apr 19, 2007)

I don't want to hijack this thread but this is a related license question. The admiral and I are planning an extended cruise out of the county. Do we both need to have an RRO or will it suffice if just I have one?


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## skyellab (Aug 7, 2006)

You need to have a license for the country you are in. If you are sailing in these waters you most likely will have a SSB radio and you need a license to operate anywhere. The boat needs a ships station license when you leave the us. That includes the 60 miles from me into Canada. 

I have spelled out the rules in the post I did yesterday. It is very clear and walks you through what you need. Using someone elses boat in another Country has different rules. You need to do what is needed for your situation. Sort of like getting a fishing license for a different state.


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## skyellab (Aug 7, 2006)

Allanbc said:


> I don't want to hijack this thread but this is a related license question. The admiral and I are planning an extended cruise out of the county. Do we both need to have an RRO or will it suffice if just I have one?


A person can talk on the radio in the presence of the station owner which would be you. 
Your VHF is not going to do much for you on an extended cruise. You are going to need to be a HAM or SSB operator. No ifs ands or buts. If you take the class to be this all the answers are clear. You are going to need to apply and get all these licenses anywhere in the world. If you choose to not do this you do not have a call sign, emergency number for your distress radio and no way to call for help or get weather. Just apply for your licenses and don't worry about getting around it.


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## Allanbc (Apr 19, 2007)

skyellab said:


> A person can talk on the radio in the presence of the station owner which would be you.
> Your VHF is not going to do much for you on an extended cruise. You are going to need to be a HAM or SSB operator. No ifs ands or buts. If you take the class to be this all the answers are clear. You are going to need to apply and get all these licenses anywhere in the world. If you choose to not do this you do not have a call sign, emergency number for your distress radio and no way to call for help or get weather. Just apply for your licenses and don't worry about getting around it.


Applying for licenses isn't the problem or my question. My question was do we BOTH need to get licenses?


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## skyellab (Aug 7, 2006)

One license will do, sorry.


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## windward54 (Apr 12, 2000)

Allanbc, only one person on board needs the RRO. So the answer to your question is both you and your wife do not need an RRO.


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## Allanbc (Apr 19, 2007)

windward54 said:


> Allanbc, only one person on board needs the RRO. So the answer to your question is both you and your wife do not need an RRO.


Thanks for the answer.


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## hphoen (Apr 3, 2003)

Some of the countries we've visited ask for your VHF call sign on the form you fill out when you clear in. Obviously, you had to have applied for and received your FCC Ship Station License to have a call sign.


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## Crunch (Jul 11, 2008)

ok then, a US FCC VHF license will be accepted in other countries????


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

Crunch,

Yes.

Allanbc,

Your wife doesn't need a license so long as you are aboard and are "controlling" the emissions from your radio. However, if you are not onboard, or if there is no licensed operator aboard, she may NOT use the radio.

Here's the applicable rule:

TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION

CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION (CONTINUED)

PART 80_STATIONS IN THE MARITIME SERVICES--Table of Contents

Subpart D_Operator Requirements

Sec. 80.156 Control by operator.

The operator on board ships required to have a holder of a 
commercial operator license or permit on board may, if authorized by the 
station licensee or master, permit an unlicensed person to modulate the 
transmitting apparatus for all modes of communication except Morse code 
radiotelegraphy.

[51 FR 34984, Oct. 1, 1986]

Bottom line: get the licenses. Small enough problem; no real test.

Bill


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Just got FRN and operator's license for my girlfriend. 15 minutes from a standing start. Station license wouldn't take much longer (sailing with me, and my boat as a station license already).

sail fast, dave


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Given the fact that the RRO only costs $65, and that it lasts your lifetime... it would be rather stupid and foolish not to get one for every person normally aboard your boat. As pointed out previously, if no one aboard has an RRO, then you can't legally use the radio equipment.


Allanbc said:


> I don't want to hijack this thread but this is a related license question. The admiral and I are planning an extended cruise out of the county. Do we both need to have an RRO or will it suffice if just I have one?


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