# Small affordable sailboats with ample storage? (planning to live aboard)



## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

Hi everybody!

I've decided that I will be living aboard a small sailboat during the 2014 season in Chicago. I've found my marina of choice, and worked out a budget of 3000 max for the cost of a boat. I know this will be a small boat, so please don't feel the need to warn me about that, i'm prepared for it.

That said, I'm looking for boats that will ideally have the following qualities:
1. Trailerable (or already in Chicago)
2. At least 23'
3. Some kind of head (not picky)
4. Lockers that I can hang clothing in, as I wear suits to work and need to maintain a reasonably neat wardrobe

Any suggestions as to what models to look for/at is greatly appreciated!


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Do you want a boat that sails or do you just want a boat?
Do you mean an enclosed head?


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

I'd like to be able to do some coastal cruising, no more than a day or two away from the slip a month though. And the head being enclosed would be a plus, but isn't imperative.


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

Are you big on standing up?

Are you under 5'6"?

...

Are you much affected by cold?


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

Cold won't be much of an issue, as i will only be in the slip from may thru october. And height is something to consider, but not crucial, as i'm a fairly short fella


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## Markwesti (Jan 1, 2013)

O'Day 23 if you can find one . That was may first boat . It has everything you are requesting . Good luck !


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

And oday 23s have a pop top, too! Perfect. Anybody else have any ideas?


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

I don't think I'd want a pop-top O'Day in May or October in Chi-town.

I don't think I'd want to live on a 23 footer if it wasn't a Georgian 23.

Where's Jonesy? He's got one. They're the biggest small boat you'll find. And they made them on Lake Ontario so you could probably either find one or bring one. Probably don't come with trailers but the draft isn't so bad, a little hefty - you got a big truck?

Could happen in your price range.

If you're trailering that much already you could maybe find a Grampian 26 with a swing keel (they made a few), same designer, and a lot of boat for 26'.


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## Markwesti (Jan 1, 2013)

My O'Day 23 did not have a pop top . Plus the only reason we got rid of it, is we couldn't stand up in it . And you might want to check if your marina lets people live on a boat that size . I know mine doesn't . My suggestion is to go a little bigger . In my area 27-30 footers can be had for $3000. or even less . But you have to be in the right place at the wrong time . Take your time .


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

Catalina 22 with a pop is similar to the oday, but I always liked the accommodations slightly better...


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## oceangirl (Sep 17, 2008)

If standing headroom is not an issue, look at the Pacific Seacraft 25. I lived aboard one for a couple years. Good storage, big vberth, head is "contained" but not fully closed off. You just have to get used to putting your pants on while standing in the hatchway . Hard to find one at 3000, but maybe 6-8+.

Have you thought about storing the boat rather than trailering it? This would open a list of vessels that might work better for you. If so, the Pearsons, Bristols, Columbias, Islanders are some boats to consider.


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

Storage might be an option, but the cost of transport seems like it might be prohibitive. I'm also anticipating having to do some work to the boat before the start of the season which would be difficult with a boat on a cradle in a yard or warehouse.


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

So watch craigslist, but more importantly, go walk the docks at your local cheapie marinas. You are at the right time of year to buy, and prices for a 27' boat that will be a lot roomier may not be significantly different than a 23' trailerable.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Catalina 25 has a pop top (though you can't really stand in front of the stove, which is the most important area for me to stand), private enclosed head (often with a holding tank), sails pretty well, and you can probably get one in rough but not terrible shape for $3000.

The models made with a head but no sink for the head have a tiny hanging locker. It would also be easy to convert the V-berth into a hanging locker plus storage and still sleep (I'm assuming you are single) in the wide but not tall quarterberth.

O'Day 25 is quite similar with a couple of inches more standing height but no pop-top.

Erickson 25+ is quite a nice boat with more storage area (due to being 9' wide vs 8') but is unlikely to be $3000.


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## MarkCK (Jan 4, 2009)

A Rhodes 22 has a head, not exactly enclosed though. Some Compac 23's have a marine head. 3k and 23 foot is not much to work with. If you could step up to a Catalina 27 you could get cheap and a lot more room.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Looking at CL in your area, if it was me I would try and buy THIS;








28' Sailboat for Sale price reduced to

Heck, the fella that designed it, Bob Perry, was the first person that replied to your post. How cool is that?

It is a bit over your budget, but sails great, looks great, has a head, you can stand up in it and it would go just about anywhere should the desire hit you. 3K for a live aboard is really tight. I would LOVE it if I could shop in your neck of the woods vs Alaska.


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## Chas H (Sep 6, 2013)

Check Crowley's Yacht Yard and Larsen Marine in your neighborhood. They have some boats that might be coaxed down to your price range this time of year.
-CH


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

zedboy said:


> I don't think I'd want a pop-top O'Day in May or October in Chi-town.
> 
> I don't think I'd want to live on a 23 footer if it wasn't a Georgian 23.
> 
> ...


Zed has hit the mark. Georgian 23, bayfield 25, Challenger 24, Grampian 26 all have full headroom, enclosed heads, shoal draft for ease of trailering, hanging lockers, and all are sub $5K for a solid, if basic, boat.

We bought our Georgian 23 six season ago with the intention of sailing her for a season, to see if we enjoyed sailing, then getting something slightly bigger. 
We are still sailing her, simply because we can't find a boat with a diesel inboard, dodger, bimini, furling jib, autopilot, masthead rig, shoal draft, full headroom, etc., 26 feet or under, without starting to spend serious cash.


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

Bayfield 25 that Brian mentioned is another good rec. Were a pile of them in our marina. Couple next to me had one, and some bums squatted in it and burned it to the ground over the winter on the hard (!). They went right out and bought another one.

Arguably the only other "real" livable 23-footer (25 is a misnomer - it's only because of the bowsprit). Looses against the Georgian because they will charge you for 25', wins because it's not ugly  the Georgian on our dock vertically dwarfed all the other boats on our dock - like twice the height to the top of the coach roof...


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## scottie55 (Sep 25, 2013)

Westerly Centaur


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## asdf38 (Jul 7, 2010)

Every single foot makes a huge difference from 22-28' and cost doesn't go up significantly. At 23' it's hard to find an enclosed head and headroom is going to be pretty bad. By 26' almost every boat will have an enclosed head and plenty have 6' headroom or close to it, and many have quarter berths (good for storage at least). By 28' you'll have standing headroom and quarter berths or aft cabins in most boats.

Between 22' and 26' cost barely goes up at all. Good pearson 26's go for <$5k for example. I'd at least extend your search up to ~26'.


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

I certainly won't rule out any boat that I can afford, the bigger the better! As long as I can keep it somewhere to work on it and get it into lake michigan at the beginning of the season next year, I will consider any and all sailboats. 23 is just the absolute minimum. Anyone ever live aboard one of the older MacGregor/Venture 25 footers? No hanging locker from what I can tell, but it seems to fit pretty much every other requirement and I'm trippin over ads for them it seems like.


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

Everyone probably thinks this boat is uuuuugggglllyyyy, but Its right up my alley. I can't seem to find much out there about these reinell sailboats though. Anyone have any insights?
Clean Dry 26' sailboat w/trailer & slip @ Pioneer Marina


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## oceangirl (Sep 17, 2008)

No, she looks like a sweet boat, it's fiberglass right?


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## oceangirl (Sep 17, 2008)

REINELL 26 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Reinell Boat Works
1928-1980

First founded as Adams & Reinell, Inc., in Marysville, Washington, USA.
The company specialized in lapstrake and carvel-planked boats in the 10- to 18-foot range, but they advertised their ability to design and build pleasure cruisers or yachts up to 110 feet in their spacious plant.
In the early 1930's C.B. Adams dropped out and the company became known as Reinell Boat Works. The plant was expanded several times and new models were added to the line, making Reinell a well known and successful west coast US builder of outboard runabouts, at least into the 1960's, when fiberglass contruction was introduced.
After an initial resistance to the new technology, the company began building small fiberglass runabouts in 1957, which were not well received. 
Reinell entered into a short lived venture of building sailboats when they purchased some molds from the recently defunct American Mariner Industries.
After a number of changes in ownership and management, the company closed it's doors in 1980. Most of companies assetts were purchased by Beechcraft Marine, which in turn went under a few years later.
See American Mariner Industries.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I want a rocketship and I want one with Faster Than Light engines and I've worked out a budget, I can afford ten grand for it.

Doesn't mean I'm going to find one, does it? Not in working order.


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

hellosailor said:


> I want a rocketship and I want one with Faster Than Light engines and I've worked out a budget, I can afford ten grand for it.
> 
> Doesn't mean I'm going to find one, does it? Not in working order.


Why so sore?
There's plenty of boats in my price range that fit my criteria. I didn't say I wanted a giant yacht with 5 berths. I'm just looking for a bed, a toilet, and a hanging locker. Seems pretty simple to me.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

There's a Pearson 10m near you on eBay for wicked cheap. Not trailerable , but would give you much more room for severe bargain price.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Not sore at all, just somewhat amused by the idea of a 23-foot boat with a head and hanging locker. A head of some kind probably puts you into 26 feet, but if you want a hanging locker big enough to hold one week's worth of business suits (or jackets and pants) you'll have to upsize again. Although for three grand you might find that boat, I'd be surprised if it was dry enough to keep those clothes free of mildew. And if you're wintering in Chicago, you'll also need heat. More space and money.

On the three grand budget, and "cheap boats" have been discussed quite often here and elsewhere, you'll be probably buying a boat with an outboard engine, in need of deck repairs, with blown out sails or other problems. it may not be impossible, but a warm dry boat that allows you to live aboard, and still can be sailed or function as a BOAT, is going to be a hard find for three grand.

I know there are "apartments" in Tokyo that are smaller than a 26' boat, but they don't have hanging lockers either, and the head is down the hall, communal style. You will doubtless think it is a waste of good money, but hire a surveyor before you buy the boat, so you have some expectation of how much more it will cost to fix the inevitable problems in a $3000 boat.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Hello.
We summer aboard a 23' boat with a hanging locker and full headroom.

















if we had the option, we might consider wintering aboard her as well, but it admittedly gets tight wiht two people and two dogs.

So... what's your point? You apparently missed the post a page back where several examples suiting the OPs needs were suggested, all of which you apparently didn't realize existed, then you give the OP a reality check that he can't find what he wants for what he wants?

A good point is brought up, however- measuring the suitability of a boat by LOA is a bit of a fool's errand. Displacement might be a better measure. A Flicka, for example is more comfortable and livable than a tanzer 22, although the tanzer is longer, and a dana 24 is a much more luxurious boat than a Mac 26.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

bl- 
As you said: 'Georgian 23, bayfield 25, Challenger 24, Grampian 26 all have full headroom, enclosed heads, shoal draft for ease of trailering, hanging lockers_, and all are sub $5K for a solid, if basic, boat."_
I don't say that they don't exist, just that finding one will not be easy, and finding one at 3K will be even more difficult. "sub 5K" is still quite a stretch from 3K. I've been on the Grampian a long time ago, don't recall how much "hanging locker" it had, but I'd be hard pressed to keep two weeks worth of business attire in less than two feet of hanging locker. Not just a rod--but a locker, which could keep them dry and unchafed while sailing. I suppose three jackets and daily trips to the dry cleaner to rotate them might work, but then again, I never enjoyed _daily _stops at the cleaners much anyway.


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

Hellosailor, 3 jackets, 6 pair pants and 5 shirts should fit in a hanging locker less than 12", as that's the space i keep them in now. And i don't expect to get a turnkey boat for 3k, which you might have picked up on had you read the earlier posts before reacting. Also, you might have picked up on the "2014 season" aspect, or the clear statement of May through October. I appreciate that you took the time to add your input, but please try to be constructive.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Alaska:
Common sense scares them. Nice try though.

Clothes crammed into a 12" wide hanging locker will not have the ventilation to dry and fresh. You need space between the clothing. Carve this in stone. Or not and smell like you live aboard.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Sorry if I misread you, Turbo, but three suits wouldn't get me through a standard business week. Maybe if they were a "corporate" blazer where you could wear what looked like the same thing every day, but on the east coast, you're expected to have a little more rotation in the attire. And you'd better have a fast dry cleaner to make that happen. 

I could certainly pack that much stuff on a 12" bar but my (mythological) tailor would throttle me with his measuring tape if I did. They'd be all jammed up with the collars and shoulders rubbing, and that's simply not good for the clothing.Heck, hanging five shirts in the same six inches counts as incest in most states. 

But as long as you know it works for you, however you do it, that's all that need count. And here I thought my post was constructive: Warning you that you'll need more boat to make that work smoothly!


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## Markwesti (Jan 1, 2013)

Hey Turbo , congrats on your post here. You are getting a lot of hits . But I have to say I got 75 hits on a post I made. ( it was a test post I made to get the 15 posts so I could PM, I pleaded ignore. ) Any how the reason for my post here is to tell you about a book . It is called The Sailor's Sketch Book , by Bruce Bingham . N/A For the Pacific Seacraft Flicka 20 . Ok I know the Flicka is not what you are asking about . But the book is . I love this book .


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## asdf38 (Jul 7, 2010)

TuurboSpaggetti said:


> Hellosailor, 3 jackets, 6 pair pants and 5 shirts should fit in a hanging locker less than 12", as that's the space i keep them in now. And i don't expect to get a turnkey boat for 3k, which you might have picked up on had you read the earlier posts before reacting. Also, you might have picked up on the "2014 season" aspect, or the clear statement of May through October. I appreciate that you took the time to add your input, but please try to be constructive.


I think some of the comments have been a bit harsh as well but one thing to remember is that this sailing forum gets quite a few posts that read like this:

"Hey I'm 23 and I've never seen the ocean before and I have $4200 total and I want to sail around the world starting in 3 months. What 30' "blue water" boat should I buy"

I don't think your post fit this mold but when you think someone is being unrealistic it's not necessarily a bad thing to try and set them straight quickly.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

I lived aboard a Catalina 22 for a winter in Seattle. That was pretty uncomfortable, but doable.

I lived aboard a Catalina 27 for three years in L.A. That was much more comfortable. Catalina 27s have a huge amount of room down below, and sail well. They are also cheap and plentiful.

Go have a look at one.


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## oceangirl (Sep 17, 2008)

Had neighbors who worked for NASA, they had to wear a suit everyday. Rented a storage unit that was on the route to work. Changed clothes at the storage unit. No need to stink up the boat with cubicle smell .

Also, the Pearson triton is tiny but has good headroom, and can be found cheap.


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## SawWhet (Mar 1, 2008)

Tanzer 22


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## SawWhet (Mar 1, 2008)

Tanzer 22 had one years ago fantastic boat


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

So, I'm having a debate in my mind as to whether I should look for an inboard or outboard motor, but I'm leaning towards outboard because I feel like it would allow for more living space on the inside of the vessel. Am I overlooking some distinct advantage of having an inboard motor?

Also, plans have been pushed to summer 2015 and budget has been increased to $4500 if anyone cares.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

In that size and price range, you are way more likely to get a boat with an outboard engine with boat the boat and engine in better condition. And it should be good enough--for a boat that was designed to be used with an outboard, assuming it is a proper long shaft outboard designed for the boat, and for hopping up and down the shore or taking longer trips in reasonably good weather.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Inboard does take up slightly more space down below. The reality is that it is often space that is difficult to utilize, difficult to access, open to the bilge.
An inboard allows for improved 12 volt charging, no cavitation and in some cases much lower fuel consumption. The single cylinder yanmar diesel on our Georgian 23 burns 1 litre of fuel per hour at hull speed.
Turbo, you are correct, it is hard to find a decent small boat with an inboard and standing headroom and decent storage for under $4500..... I know of one for sale, though...


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

The only thing I can say is that when it's rough, those little egg beaters come out of the water and that can rattle you. An inboard stays in the water and that diesel sound is reassuring.

On the trailer issue - if that's important and you don't have a one ton truck, then you are going outboard. My Catalina 22 weighs around 2500 lbs. You can tow it with a big car or small SUV


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

Bljones, I hadn't considered the 12v charging situation! Thanks for pointing that out. I need some kind of complicated solution to charge batteries with an outboard at all, don't I? I don't plan on being away from the slip for more than 5-7 days tops, but would charging with shore power keep the batteries up for more than a day or two? I do love my gadgets, so power is important to me. I'm sure there are solar solutions, but I'd rather be able to start a motor and be sure the batteries were getting consistent juice.

Also, where can I find info about this boat you speak of? Do you have a for sale thread or CL ad somewhere?


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Its always hard to predict what boats will be available when any one person is looking ain any specific area of the world. If I were in your shoes, (looking for a $3,000 boat, in Illinois, to live on and weekend cruise), I would put together a list of boats which were a good mix of spaciousness and sailing ability. I would not worry as much about being trailerable or whether it had an outboard. My list would include boats like the Morgan 24/25, C&C 24 or 25, Cal 25, C&C Redline 25, Viking 25, Dolphin 24, Beneteau 25 SK, Pearson Lark 24, Paceship (AKA PSY or AMC) 23 or 26, and maybe a Grampian 26, Whitby 25 (AKA Continental 25/ Walton 25) or Lindenberg 26. 

Any of these in decent shape and in your price range would be good boats for your purpose. 

Jeff


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## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

T S;

In my experience; allow one-third of your budget for thepurchase, another for refit/repairs and the last for first season expenses.
I used a Venn diagram of sorts to winnow the list to manageable, then went on to find boats that fit within those parameters and budget. Patience will pay off . Buying the biggest you think you'll need (for a while ) and can handle (at first) might avoid a case of "foot-itis: 
It's out there!
Best of luck


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## Tallswede (Jul 18, 2012)

A Watkins 27' would make a nice little liveaboard. It's beamy and comfy and might be in your budget depending on condition. A little big for trailering though. I'll second the nomination for the Catalina 27' also.

Kevin


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

There are trailerable boats and then there are liveaboard boats. There aren't many trailerable liveaboard boats.


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## TuurboSpaggetti (Mar 16, 2013)

Sal, it doesn't HAVE to be both trailerable and liveaboard-able. I'm fairly confident that I can find a boat either already in lake MI or close enough that shipping costs would be reasonable.

And Deltaten, the numbers I've posted here are strictly my budget to purchase and potentially ship a boat. I have an entirely separate budget allocated for repairs and maintenance, as well as a budget for a slip.


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