# Inheriting two sailing vessels



## DJORALEM (Mar 13, 2014)

My brother-in-law passed away three weeks ago in southern Chile. He left behind two large sailboats, which he used to take scientists to remote areas around the tip of South America - climatologists, geologists, etc. The larger of the boats is 70 feet long and has a specially designed hull for the rough waters of Patagonia - it is said to be able to sleep 15 people. The attached picture is of this boat.
We are not sailors and have no idea about how to find people who might be interested in such specialized boats. Any advice would be very much appreciated!
Donald


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Assuming your only interest is in selling the fleet?

If you can get information on the boats (year, make/model, length, engine hours, photos) someone might be able to advise on a value... the remote location is obviously going to be a big factor.. probably your best bet would be to find a local who wants to get into that business. Not easy to do from afar..

Best of luck.

Option B.. take up sailing and do it yourself!


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## DJORALEM (Mar 13, 2014)

There are 2500 people in the "town" where the boats are located - which is the last stop before Antarctica - so I don't expect to find many interested parties. Is it hard to find a way to have boats sailed by competent crews to less remote locations? How? Many thanks for any recommendations.

I do have some information on the larger boat and expect to have more after an up-coming trip there. I believe it was built in Germany and is one of only two of its type.

If/when I take up sailing, I suspect it won't be to explore the treacherous waters of Patagonia! I'm thinking the Caribbean might be better suited to my disposition!!


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Contact Skip Novak down there - he runs charters to Antarctica from southern Chile. He's about as experienced a sailor as it's possible to be.

You should be able to find him on the web.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

DJ, if you can find out any of the clients from past charters, some of them might have ideas as to who would be interested in buying the boats.

If there is no one maintaining them, you might want to look into that as well, with someone at the marina or in the town. Boats that are left alone tend to have problems and devalue very quickly, no matter where they are.

I'd also suggest looking for the closest major port, wherever that may be, and trying to contact boat brokers there.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

I have to say, if it was me, I'd think about paying a delivery crew to have it brought all the way home, to the nearest port to me. I would just find the sale much easier to handle if the boat is local, and you have a far greater pool of buyers.

Whereabouts are you?


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

No advice, but beautiful location! If I were in a position to do it, and near by I would consider it myself. 

Good luck, and sorry for your loss.


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## findrichard (Jan 16, 2014)

Your brother in law most likely had a crew to assist him with the sailing and maintenance of his fleet. I am sure the marina knows who these folks are and can assist you with locating them. They will be able to provide you with pictures and much information specific of your new boats. They would most likely be the best candidates to hire to help maintain the boats until you can sell them.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

DJORALEM said:


> My brother-in-law passed away three weeks ago in southern Chile. He left behind two large sailboats...


Habla con un abogado in Chile...

What legal right do you have to deal with the property? Why is this your problem? Why are you raising this issue on a sailing forum?

Brother-in-law died testate or intestate? Who are his heirs under Chilean law? Who is the personal representative of the estate? Is there a right of survivorship on the title documents?

This doesn't pass the smell test...


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## findrichard (Jan 16, 2014)

Brother in law along with the word we sounds perfectly normal to me.


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## DJORALEM (Mar 13, 2014)

Thanks to all for the advice. I have sent a message to Skip Novak. There are people in town who are taking care of the boats, but I don't think anyone has the skill necessary to captain the boats or the resources to buy them. We will find out more when we visit there next week. I have searched, to no avail, for nearby brokers - the closest seems to be in Valparaiso, which is a very long way north, almost all the way to Santiago. I still wonder how one contacts a potential crew - or is that something a broker would handle?
As for the "smell test," my brother-in-law had no spouse, no children and no will, which is why my wife has been legally appointed as executor for his estate. She and I are fluent Spanish speakers. We now have a Chilean lawyer, who will be advising us on that country's inheritance laws. I posted this question to a sailing forum precisely because I have no relevant experience and hoped that people on this site could help. I'm sorry if any of the readers feel that this was inappropriate, but hope that you all might have some sympathy for the difficult position my family faces.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Not inappropriate, Djoralem. Your situation is unusual for this forum, and sometimes unusual, and unreal, stories are posted by those just looking to watch the Sailnetters scramble. I think James' nose has gotten a little too sensitive.

Sorry about your brother in law -- it sounds like you're making progress on the boats.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Best of luck in finding a solution.. If the boats are truly well found and worth something it may well be worth your while to hire delivery captains to bring the boats to a viable market. Otherwise I think you run the risk of ending up 'giving them away'.. if indeed you can unload them at all.

Having to do all this at such a remote remove sure doesn't make it easier or less expensive as a process.....


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## findrichard (Jan 16, 2014)

To bring those boats to the US will cost $100+ per day, per boat plus any provisioning and refitting costs determined necessary by the delivery crew as well as the costs of any associated with any necessary repairs needed along the way. I would recommend you get a few an itemized quotes from delivery companies and list them here for scrutiny. 

I would then find a broker in the US and get his recommended listing and selling price for a quick sale. I would also get his costs to store the boats out of the water. I would then weigh all those costs against the cost of discounting the price of the boats to a point that would entice someone like me to spend money to go look at them in Chile.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

While you may well be better off in a market like Brazil vs Chile (not sure) I'm not sure it would be necessary to bring the boats all the way to North America.

These are special purpose vessels, not all that common worldwide (again, if in good condition and of good pedigree) and a specialized buyer would not be shy about some travel to investigate a purchase. However southern Chile is a LOOONG way away....


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## DJORALEM (Mar 13, 2014)

Very helpful re. delivery crew!
We are finding a bit more about the larger boat, including that it was built in 1992 by a German firm called WF Aluminium Yachtbau GmbH. It is 65.7 feet long, has a reinforced hull and added pilot house. I'll certainly have a clearer idea after our upcoming trip - I only wish it weren't the start of really bad weather in that part of the world!
Thanks to all who have responded!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

DJ, do take plenty of good photos of the boats, inside and out. But first, make sure they are cleaned up. Assuming you will use the photos to sell the boat, boats do sell for more when the photos show an uncluttered, cleaned up boat. Usually the best way to do that is to secure any valuables, then just hire help to clean & scrub for the day.

If you can go over with the crew, find out what is "special" about the boats. Ask the builder the same question, what was custom contracted for them. You may find that the "custom" part consists solely of a heavier hull or bow construction, for working near ice. Or extra insulation, which can be useful anywhere in the world, and a heating system, again, useful in many places. Depending on how much of what is "custom" the boat may have a better market value elsewhere. Also, if the boat is Chilean flagged (titled) there may be paperwork issues and some buyer reluctance in other nations. The papers which should be secure on the boat someplace will tell you that, among other things.

If you were to bring it north to sell, obviously the voyage up to either California or Florida is a long one. Between the price of flying a US crew down, or sending a Chilean (etc) crew home, and daily rates for the travel, it wouldn't be cheap to bring the boat up.

You might also want to consider which US coast (I'd suspect the Miami market is larger) and contact a big-name broker stateside to ask if they'd be interested in the brokerage sale. They might be capable, and willing, to assist in the delivery home as part and parcel of the deal, which could save you from having to pay out the delivery expenses up front as well. Or, at least to refer you to someone.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

It might be possible to have a delivery skipper and crew bring the yacht up the Chilean or Argentinean coast to a large port where the boat could be put on a ship for further transport -- that might be less expensive and less wear and tear than having the delivery crew get it all the way to you or to a major market. You might also check out the specialized yacht delivery ships and which South American ports they might visit.
Edit: Dockwise Transport's site doesn't show a regular pick-up/delivery location closer than Golfito, Costa Rica, so that option doesn't look useful to you.


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## DJORALEM (Mar 13, 2014)

It will be a challenge to get the boats "uncluttered," since they are currently moored off-shore and the weather is really terrible - high winds and rain all day! Also, my brother-in-law was a bit of a pack rat, so I suspect there will be lots of stuff in the way of a good photograph. We'll do our level best!
Does anyone have any suggestions regarding an organization called "Ocean Cruising Club"? A family member has a friend in that group and we have received some contact information for a port officer in Ushuaia, which is the nearest sizable community (although in Argentina, not Chile). The idea is that scientific expeditions set off from that city for trips to Antarctica and there may be charter companies interested in a properly outfitted boat for that purpose.

I want to thank everyone who has responded to my inquiry. We really did feel as though we were "sailing blind"!


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Boats like that require constant upkeep. When neglected, their value can quickly go down to next to nothing. And taking them up north where they can be sold will be a costly undertaking. So don't wait too long.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Sorry for your loss. If one dies without a will, by definition, there can't really be an executor. However, Chili may, like most US states, appoint someone to administer the estate. That appointment would commonly get back to a sibling in the US, if there were no surviving spouse or children.

One big issue I would have your wife check immediately is whether there are any liens on the boats. If so, you'll need to deal with them to sell it and, of course, want to be sure they are being serviced in the meantime. 

Sounds like you'll have little choice but to find a good broker. You'll have no way to negotiate a sale of the boats, if you have no experience in the process. 

Good luck. 

p.s. this is a good time for a Captain Ron reference......... (an early 1990s movie starring Kurt Russel and Martin Short, where they are faced with your problem. I like their solution. Watch it!)


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Hhhmmmmm.... Captain Ron rounds Cape Horn with an inexperienced crew.

I'd buy the DVD.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

No reason to round the Cape. Even if they wanted to go "east" to Florida, it would be way shorter to sail up the west side, the Chilean side they are already on, and cut through the Panama Canal. Probably something like 5000nm to Miami, versus 7500 if they took the "shorter" route around the eastern bulge of Brazil.

DJ, maybe you could find a business broker, either here or there, who could sell the existing business, not just the boats?


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I'm sorry for your loss.
Before you go, go online and browse the many ads for boats for sale on there. This will give you a good idea of the information you will need to bring back on each boat, the sort of pictures you should take and which brokers handle your sort of boats.
I would make sure the boats are in capable hands immediately, so they are not stripped and/or vandalized. Next, contact a reputable international yacht broker and have them advise you about moving the boats. Perhaps they are worth more there, as a business; you need to know these things, before you make a mistake.
Get professional advice, even if it costs money; there's way too much at stake here to wing it. Your broker will arrange for moving the boats to another location, if needed; it shouldn't be anything you will need to involve yourself in, other than paying the bills.
Most important; make sure you have clear title to both boats. If you are not a citizen of the country they are registered in, be sure you contact that country and find out any applicable regulations (for instance, only Americans can own US documented vessels). All your paperwork must be in order before these boats move internationally.
If I were 20 years younger, I'd be your guy on this one, just for the adventure. Good luck.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

One thing to keep in mind that many listings out there have "dream" prices that are not realistic at all. If you have no interest in sailing the boats you will want to put a reasonably low price because there is not a big market and to get top dollar could take years to find the right buyer. It will take tens of thousands of maintain them for that time. If they fall into disrepair they will loose any value they might have had and could cost you a lot of money to get rid of. 

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

If you are considering delivering those boats to the US (Fla would probably be best) you are going to need deep pockets. At current delivery rates, your crew would run in excess of $300.00 per boat plus food, fuel, repairs and misc. expenses. The Panama Canal is not cheap, either. Weather and repairs can delay deliveries and turn them in financial nightmares on vessels ill equipped for long distance voyaging.
I would therefor seriously consider listing them for a reasonably low price for quick sale. Again, you are going to need a real, international broker to help you (not that I like or respect most brokers, but they do have their place in the business). Even if they don't have a local office they do have networks that span the globe.
If you wish, PM me and I'll help as I can.


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## captain44 (Mar 6, 2014)

$300 per day for a delivery is much more in line with prevailing rates than the suggestion of only $100 per day which is starvation wages and less than minimum wage. It may even be higher than $300 per day. I would suggest that you contact a marine surveyor who can assess the condition and possible value of the boat before you do anything. Are the boats insured? You may be throwing good money after bad OR....you may have inherited something very valuable. Before you invest too much time or money, find out if the boat can sail on her own up north. Winter is coming to southern Chile. A delivery will cost many thousands of dollars if not tens of thousands once you add up airfare, travel time for the crew to the boat, repairs, maintenance, fuel, food
etc etc.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Considering that a delivery to Florida, via Chile and the Panama Canal, would be about 5000 nm and given any port time for gear problems, or delays for weather, and a delay waiting for the Canal...that's about 50 days at 100nm per day of "direct" progress. If the larger boat does well and 150nm per day, still more than a month. And although insurers might only require a crew of 3, four is more practical. Conventional delivery back to the US wouldn't be cheap no matter how it was done. Although I'm sure any number of us would be glad to bring the boat back for the cost of the airfare down and whatever prep the boat needed. Via Hawaii, Easter Island, the Galapagos, and a few other detours en route. (VBG)


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## captain44 (Mar 6, 2014)

Please don't be so quick to suggest that there are all kinds of people out there ready and willing and capable to do a long distance delivery without pay. Stops at Hawaii? Seriously? Thousands of miles out of the way? There are many reasons why paid professionals are preferable to unpaid pleasure seekers or joy riders and if there is to be a viable labor market of qualified professionals to deliver boats to serve the needs of boat owners, they must be treated as professionals and paid as such. A boat delivery is not a joy ride or a pleasure cruise since unlike a pleasure cruise, the goal is efficient movement of the boat at a steady or fast pace without compromising safety by those who are dependent upon efficient movement to earn their livelihood. Plenty of people like to drive, but that does not mean a free driver is the best way to take a tractor trailer across the country. If the going gets tough and you are getting paid, you keep going. If the going gets tough and you are not getting paid you may see the entire trip in a different light.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Lighten up, 44. I think the OP and everyone else knows that was tongue in cheek, and yes, a couple or six months and thousands more miles of detour might be the price for a "free" delivery crew.

Hell, the _OP _might even be interested in doing that. You never know.

On fair wages...the debate in the US is that minimum wage should be $10.10 now, and that's for a 40-hour week before overtime. I suppose a captain is "management" and exempt from overtime, unlike the crew at McBurger. Still, that should put the least experienced Captain at $240+ perdiem and the crew at $120 per day, gee, plus an awful lot of overtime. Let's see, 12 hours, seven days, 44 hours at $10.10 ($404) plus 40 more at time and a half $15.15 ($606) So let's call it $1010 per crew per week just paying them the same base rate as a floor sweeper or cashier. Damn, that means you're going to have to pay the captain at least $1200 or he's going to protest as well. Add some food...and you can figure five grand a week for that professional crew, right?

Sure, highly paid professionals. I'm all for it. You'd better give yourself a raise though, because what you're asking for is less than the guys at McD's will get paid, and they don't have to supply their own foulies.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I've only had a few jobs where I got paid by the hour on boats (the best!) and one was as a subcontractor for the military. Now THAT'S how one gets rich driving boats!
Even a decent paying captain's position on something less than a megayacht is going to come out at a pretty measly hourly rate, if it's a full time, liveaboard position. There aren't very many of us in THIS business for the money.
As for this delivery, I can only go by what I would charge. Being that these two boats are a bit of a distance from my home base and I have no idea of their seaworthiness, it would be a conditional contract. I would fly to the boats alone and assess the vessels, before bringing crew down. If the boats could make the proposed voyage (after repairs, if necessary) I would take care of any work that needed doing with local labor and bring the crews in a few days before departure. If I felt both boats could not safely make the voyage, then I'd be on a plane back asap, not wasting time or the owner's money. Keeping in mind that I've taken vessels to sea which most of you wouldn't even step aboard, they would have to be pretty bad for me to fly, when I could sail.
So, if it's a go, then we'd need another captain and 4 more paid crew. I would have no problem of a nucleus crew of three paid and any free crew who might want to work for their grub, grog and passage. Three crew; one on watch for 4 hours, 8 hours off, on each boat.
So that's two captains at us$225.00 a day, every day, from their home to port of destination. Crew would get us$100.00 per day on contract. Should their vessel need lengthy repairs along the way, they could be repatriated until repairs are completed, or repatriated and replaced. Pay is after all expenses, repeat ALL expenses, for captain and crew, as well as the vessel. I do not front an owner operating money for HIS vessel. You can't believe how many very rich boat owners expect a captain to run the boat on his nickle and be repaid at the end of the month.
In exchange, the owner could expect the vessels delivered in a timely fashion, with no damage beyond anything which comes under the "acts of God" clause in the contract. Any damage caused by the crew would be the responsibility of the captain and not the owner or the owner's insurance company.
The vessels would arrive without incurring leans or hidden costs and all expenses for the voyage would be detailed in a manner consistent with good book keeping practices.
I will often charge a lower daily rate (the us$225.00 instead of us$250.00+) for a significantly longer delivery, if I want the job. I'd rather be working than not. However, if you work it, out that's not even us$10.00 an hour, as mentioned above. But those who are chasing the almighty dollar are not going to have near as much fun, heartache or the great waterfront views, from their cubicle.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

I know an accomplished sailor who is crew on the cruise ship that goes to Antarctica. He spends the northern summer up here in the states. I'll send him an email. (Sometimes it takes awhile to get it touch with him.)

Regards,
Brad


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## captain44 (Mar 6, 2014)

Hellosailor tells me to "Lighten up, 44. I think the OP and everyone else knows that was tongue in cheek, and yes, a couple or six months and thousands more miles of detour might be the price for a "free" delivery crew." and then goes on to write about minimum wage. He seems to have a bone to pick with me and I really don't get his point but telling a poster here who is trying to be helpful to "lighten up" is just...well, it's puzzling to put it politely. It would be nice to know what the OP has decided and what he is doing with his boats now. Winter is coming to The Southern Cone.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

captain44 said:


> It would be nice to know what the OP has decided and what he is doing with his boats now. Winter is coming to The Southern Cone.


Lots of newby OPs disappear never to be heard from again. Plenty of posters seem to have no existence in real life. Some of the posts are so incredibly stupid as to be beyond belief and/or normal experience (not this one necessarily).

It would be nice to know what percentage of the newby posts are legitimate, and which are people starting new conversations for the sake of generating posts, simply having fun, trying to sell something, trying to scam someone, spreading a virus/worm link (click on this link/photo because I am conducting a research survey), pretending to be someone, etc. I am guessing maybe 75% legit -25% fake.

It would be great to create a system requiring verification of a real live individual behind each poster to eliminate the scammers, sock puppets, undisclosed commercial interests, etc.

I know, I know, I know, the administrators check to make sure each member has a unique IP address - that doesn't really do anything.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

44, I've got no bone to pick with you and if you feel picked upon...did I mention, lighten up?

You missed the point about cheap labor and then you endorse "professional" delivery. Well, professional delivery is still cheap labor, one way or another, if you can afford it at those rates. Find a plumber, an accountant, a "professional" of some type (as defined by the IRS or state rules for professional licensing) who'll work an 80-hour week for the same wages as delivery captains. If you really want a PROFESSIONAL, I'm suggesting you might not be able to find or afford one, that's all. Seaman were never considered "professional" even if they were full time mariners. Even oil platform grease monkeys get paid far better, two weeks on, two weeks off. 
Money, wages, prices, are in many ways the least part of getting a safe two month long delivery. 
And did I mention, lighten up? (G)


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## captain44 (Mar 6, 2014)

Yes you did mention lighten up...thrice in fact. You may think that "Money, wages, prices, are in many ways the least part of getting a safe two month long delivery" and I absolutely agree. And yes you did mention lighten up-thrice in fact. It is silly how many people with a boat or about to purchase one put price as their first question and their deciding factor when seeking crew--yet ironically they want a labor market because they cannot do it despite purchasing a boat. So, perhaps we do agree, but it's hard to tell from your rather ironic and sardonic responses. And yes, you did mention lighten up--thrice in fact.
I very much appreciate what James Wilson has to say and wish there were a way to somehow self-police or regulate such forums to ensure legitimacy as I have come to believe that perhaps a quarter of all OP's are not "fer real." Am I being too serious or do I need to lighten up? Which ballast do you suggest I toss first?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

If you've never read or seen the old New Yorker cartoon, let me remind you:
"We're all dogs on the internet."

If you feel the need to vet real identities, I'd suggest you open a new forum of your own, because that is not the standard on most web forums, including this one. You could always ask the owners, via the moderators, to start conducting ID verifications, but I think you'd have better luck starting your own "verified" forum.

The OP, like all forum members, determines their own threshold for credibility. You want credibility? Hire someone, buy a consultation. The advice you get in the internet is widely known to be worth about what you've paid for it.


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## captain44 (Mar 6, 2014)

Aww come on Hello Sailor....Lighten up--everyone knows that my comment about id verification was tongue in cheek. Right??? Besides, the only people who really fear using their real identities online are those with something to hide or those that are just...fearful. And since you think so little of the advice given on the internet, I'll keep that in mind...thanks for that free advice--it is worth a lot to me. Have I lightened up enough for your taste?


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Nope - lighter please.


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## captain44 (Mar 6, 2014)

Sloop Jon B.....arrrr matey..glad we got ya on a "good day"....


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## Gunga Din (Jul 24, 2012)

The chilean are the most serious people I know. It's a good and a bad thing. You won't find a maze of paperwork and corrupt officials to solve things up. But you won't get ANY shortcut either. 
On the other hand, I wouldn't get these boats thru Brazil unless their papers are totally ok.


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## DJORALEM (Mar 13, 2014)

Apologies for the long absence. The trip to Patagonia went well, but the return was complicated by my wife getting the measles - yes, the measles - along the way. Days in the hospital and we are slowly getting back to real life!
We now know more about the larger boat, the Ocean Tramp, and we learned that a local person in Puerto Williams is interested in the smaller - good thing, because it is in bad shape. The OT has been well maintained and was just about to go out on an expedition when my brother in law died. She is 20 meters long, with a beam of 6 meters and draft of 2.1 meters. She was built in Germany in 1997 at Euro Aluship - one of just two designed for sail training in the North Atlantic. Her hull is aluminum, double thick, and she weighs 45 tons. The engine, a 230 HP Perkins diesel with 32 inch prop, is supported by a fuel capacity of 4,000 liters, meaning she has a range of 4,000 nautical miles. She is described as a Cutter Rig Ketch with an additional pilot house. The water capacity is 5,000 liters. She can sleep 15 and has 5 heads. There are 4 sails: main, mizzen, roller furling jib and genoa. She has 14 tons of lead in the keel and is very stable. Lots of extra equipment on board, including 3 radars, 2 echo sounders, 3 gps units, 3 zodiacs with 15 HP outboards.
As for sea worthiness, my brother in law sailed her from the Falklands to a tiny island, Tristan de Cuna, in the far south Atlantic and directly back to Uruguay. Very hard seas and troublesome winds/currents on the return. The total trip was about 5,000 nautical miles, all in the name of geological science!
Now we just have to figure out what is a reasonable price and where she can be taken for a full inspection - we're thinking nearby Ushuaia.
Once again, my thanks to all who offered such concrete advice. You helped us sort through some of the possibilities.
DJ


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## findrichard (Jan 16, 2014)

Glad to here you are back safe and sound. Sounds like an awesome boat - way to awesome for my blood unfortunately. It would be a quite an adventure to bring her back.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

Ocean Tramp sounds like a very impressive boat.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Pics?


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Yeah, we need pictures - she sounds like a really cool boat! She'll be well outside my budget, but it's always fun to see something like OT.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

That thing sounds like a ship, not a boat - just the thing for sailing to Antarctica.

Shackleton could have used it by the sound of it.


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