# Hunter Build Quality?



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

I'm kind of confused on this issue. IIRC, I've seen three different opinions expressed: 1. "Early Hunters were well-built. Later ones not so well-built." 2. "Late 70's, early 80's were well-built." (Presumably meaning anything earlier or later is not so great? Or is "late 70's/early 80's" the same as "early Hunters?") 3. Only the later Hunters are good boats.

Since my wife likes the lines of the Hunters we've seen (on line and in RL), and, I found out last night, _doesn't_ like Pearsons (!), I must resign myself to qualifying the period in which I might expect to find the best build quality for Hunter sailing craft. (I must admit: Some of the cabin layouts and accommodations I've seen in some of the Hunters we've looked at on-line sure look nice.)

(To me: Competent engineering and high build quality trumps everything but my ability to pay, regardless of the product.)

Btw: We're looking at 28-30' racer/cruiser or performance cruiser boats. (I think. Seems to be quite a gray area.)

TIA,
Jim


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Which Hunters does she like the lines of? You aren't quite clear on that point.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

PBzeer said:


> Which Hunters does she like the lines of? You aren't quite clear on that point.


We've looked at so many boats on-line in the last two-or-three weeks, I really couldn't say, except for "the 28-30' Hunters we've seen." Sorry.


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

In the late 70's to around 1982 a lot of hunters were designed by a well highly respected designer named John Cherubini. BTW Cherubini designs are very recognizable. 1981 Cherubini 33
These boats were well made.

In the mid 80's and well into the 90's Hunter as well as many other builders (Hunter specifically) suffered through high interest rates, High costs for petroleum products so they felt that they could stay solvent by producing more boats cheaply. Essentially through economies of scale. This turned out not so good. It's not that all the Hunters produced during this time frame were bad boats but they had a good percentage of them that were not so good. You also have to keep in mind that Hunter has been the one of the highest volume builders in the world and still is. Because of this you will hear more negative things simply because there are more of them. You also must remember that any used boat is only as good as the PO maintained it and Hunter, through aggressive pricing sold a lot of boats to people who didn't know squat about boating and maintaining systems. That didn't help the brand either.
In the late 90's Hunter began to design boats under Glenn Henderson and build to the same certification standard that all the other builders meet and lately, even to CE standards.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Thanks for the detailed comments, Dave. I think that's just what I was seeking.

So if I'm seeking a good used boat on a relatively tight budget, I'm looking for a "late 70's" (would that be '78 & 79', then?) thru '82 Hunter, it seems. (No earlier than '77 and no later than '83, at the outside?)

Jim


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

By the age of boats you are looking for, initial build quality matters much less (unless manufacturer did something extremely different, either bad or good). So, don't worry about build quality much. Worry about particular condition of a particular boat. They are all different and all have different problems. Anything build in that timeframe will definitely have a whole laundry list.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

SEMIJim said:


> ......Since my wife likes the lines of the Hunters we've seen (on line and in RL), and, I found out last night, _doesn't_ like Pearsons (!), I must resign myself to qualifying the period in which I might expect to find the best build quality for Hunter sailing craft. .....
> 
> (To me: Competent engineering and high build quality trumps everything but my ability to pay, regardless of the product.)
> ....
> ...


The Hunter subject has produced the largest number of flame wars on this board, as some (por many) participants like me have a very dim view of Hunter. Regardless of probable outbursts, I'll again say my thing...I believe Hunter has consistently made lousy boats, some models not as lousy as others.

Now everyone has a right to their opinion, some people think more of Hunters than I, some apparently like them, but I don't think you'd find a general consensus that "competent engineering and high build quality" is a consistent or even common charachteristic of that builder. The review at Boat Review by David Pascoe - Hunter 28 provides some insight.


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

The early and mid-80s Hunter 31s have some problems. A friend of mine nearly bought one, only to find out the steering quandrant was all f---ed up, and the draft was something incredible -- over 6' if I remember right. The decks had huge soft spots... the list of things went on and on...


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

All I can say is, I have a 07 45CC and so far so good, although it  IS only intended for coastal cruising; We are however looking at a Tayana 37 now and if that works out the Hunter will go..............we shall see


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I have a 1987 Hunter and it is just fine. I would not cross an ocean in it, but sure have a lot of fun on it. It is not a Tartan or a Sabre. Get a survey, if it is fine and you like it and it sails well, get it. Quality problems will show up by now in the survey or be fixed.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailingfool said:


> The review at Boat Review by David Pascoe - Hunter 28 provides some insight.


Ai yi yi!  That's incredible!

No offense to the many Hunter owners out there: But I would really have a hard time giving my custom to a boat builder that would allow something like that out the door with their name on it. Things like that tell me either they have no respect for themselves, they have no respect for their customers, or both.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

I'm keepin my mouth shut... No really!


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

brak said:


> By the age of boats you are looking for, initial build quality matters much less (unless manufacturer did something extremely different, either bad or good). So, don't worry about build quality much. Worry about particular condition of a particular boat. They are all different and all have different problems. Anything build in that timeframe will definitely have a whole laundry list.


I'm aware of this. (Thanks for pointing it out, anyway.) _But_: All else being equal, ISTM the better-engineered, better-built boat would be the better boat, no? And that's what we have to assume for the sake of a discussion like this: All else (e.g.: maintenance/condition) being equal.


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

SEMIJim said:


> Thanks for the detailed comments, Dave. I think that's just what I was seeking.
> 
> So if I'm seeking a good used boat on a relatively tight budget, I'm looking for a "late 70's" (would that be '78 & 79', then?) thru '82 Hunter, it seems. (No earlier than '77 and no later than '83, at the outside?)
> 
> Jim


I like the Cherb's between 80 and 82. I don't much like anything else that Hunter put out before or after. Until you get to the later/larger models.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailh34 said:


> It is not a Tartan or a Sabre.


I gather, by that, your opinion is that both Tartan and Sabre are _generally_, or more consistently of better quality. I'm thinking that maybe I best stay with them, then.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

And btw: I sincerely apologize for potentially reviving an apparently long-standing flame-war subject . I should've searched on the subject, first. It's not like I'm a 'net n00b and don't know any better.

Anybody that wants to comment but would prefer to avoid entangling themselves in a food fight: Feel free to PM me with your comments, if you're so-inclined.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Quality and Price*

Yes, I don't think anyone would disagree that Tartans and Sabres of the same vintage of any Hunter is of higher quality. You will, however, pay for that quality. Those boats of the same vintage will likely cost twice that of the Hunter. It is what you want to pay for and what you want to use the boat for that is important. If that is what you want and/or need, go with the more expensive boat.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I agree with Dave's assessment of Cherubini vs. later Hunters. I disagree about things changing when henderson arrived in 1997. He MAY be making a difference NOW on a few NEW models (time will tell) but I see no evidence of improvement in any of their previous designs OR build quality right up to about 2004. 
I've seen enough comments about changes in the 3 newest models to believe that there may be some much better boats NOW...but with 20+ years of cutting corners...pardon me if I wait a couple of more to see how the new ones hold up. 
If all you're gonna do is bay sailing...anything will do but I would personally rather have a similar sized Catalina or Beneteau (certain models only!) if I were buying a used production boat unless you are looking at Cherubini's.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

I agree with Cam. If you are looking at those numbers, look at a Bene or Catalina. Seriuosly!

- CD


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Cruisingdad said:


> I agree with Cam. If you are looking at those numbers, look at a Bene or Catalina. Seriuosly!
> 
> - CD


We were looking at mid-70's Catalina 27's, but found their cabin amenities unsuitable. So we've upped the budget and have been looking at 28-30' boats. Really like the Sabre 28. But, while there seem to be plenty of those in good-to-excellent condition elsewhere in the country, there seems to be a dearth of them in the S.E. Michigan area--even the Great Lakes area, in total . Looked at a couple Bene's on-line and they were priced well outside our budget ($15k). I think if we just wait for what we want, we should be able to find something we'll love in a Sabre, Tartan or Pearson. (Those are three for which I've seen high praise for quality, pretty-much consistently, along with C&C.) I've seen some likely-looking Pearson candidates, but my wife doesn't like 'em, for some reason . So the search continues.

We've only been at it for about three weeks or so. Looks like this is going to take a lot of patience.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Regardless of whether or not its a Hunter, it seems like this may be the first largish boat that you are buying. If this is so, a case can be made for you to find the least expensive boat that still floats and can still do what you need it to do, and then make all your mistakes on it. Beat it up, bang into the jetty, learn the hard way what does and doesn't work, and then sell it and get something a little better.

Perhaps I'm a little too sentimental, but sometimes I worry when a newbie buys a beautiful piece of floating history, and proceeds to (quite unintentionally) trash it through lack of experience.

Please don't think that I am being condescending here, and if my assessment is off the mark, I apologise in advance... but if you (and the wife) are quite new to this whole thing, then consider a "trainer" for a while. You may get a bit of a shock when you find out what it can cost to keep an older boat in tip-top shape...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

One boat you should really look hard at is the Aloha 28... well-built, roomy and sail faster than they look...
YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

*More Boats*

Hello,

With a budget of 15K you should also look at Newport 28 (and 30)
O'day 28, 30, older Catalina 30, Pearson, etc.

I just sold a 1986 Newport 28 for $14,500. It had brand new sails,
excellent diesel inboard, wheel steering w/autopilot, very nice 
interior with hot and cold pressure water, excellent cushions,
many new parts, etc. etc.

Like you, I originally looked at a Catalina 27 but found it too small.
It seems silly, but the Newport 28 was big enough.

Good luck,
Barry


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

I just have to say that the idea of not worrying about build quality in an older boat seems like a mistake to me. As boats age the differences in build quality get more significant not less. You should look strongly at the upkeep and general condition of the boat. However, as repairs have been done over the years you have no guarantee that they have been done correctly. (look at the thread about how to change a lightbulb) A boat from a higher quality builder is likely to hold its condition longer and been subjected to less bailin' wire and bubble gum repairs.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I am going to be the lone voice of dissent... For what it sounds like you will be using the boat for, the Hunters will be just fine. A lot of the Hunters from that era sail pretty well and are fast boats. They are a great value regardless of what anyone here would have you believe. Also, I would rather have a 20 year old well cared for Hunter than a neglected 20 year old higher initial quality boat any day (especially for the price I would pay). The survey should tell you what you need to know.

There are a ton of happy hunter owners out there - they are the largest manufacturer in the US and have a lot of repeat business (Catalina is probably close to same size as well).

You would be well served to ask the same question on the hunterowners forum - Hunter Owners.com for owners sailing production sailboats. You may get an answer there from actual owners of those particular boats which may help in your decision making process.


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## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

Some of the posters here have really nailed it. You must make an *educated* buying decision based on your own needs and realistic sailing goals. Lots of people do this, and that's the real reason that "HuntaCataBenalinas" sell so well. Heck, I used to wonder if people were ill-advised to buy all these Bayliners-With-A-Mast, but after seeing friends do this very thing over the decades came to understand that 98% of the owners are getting *just* what they need. 

They want a roomy boat for "gracious dockside living" and occasional anchoring out. They sometimes want to sail, albeit with a limited amount of allowed discomfort in winds of 10 to 16 kts, in small seas. They want high freeboard and a cockpit clear of "ropes" and sailing clutter, expecially when not actually proceeding somewhere under sail. And, finally, they truly do *not* value an interior designed for spending any significant time under way, and will almost never make an overnight passage. 

Boats, very much like airplanes, all have "performance envelopes" -- I chose a model with real offshore credentials, and we plan to eventually make a significant passage. 
Not meaning to sound too pretentious, and admittedly our future is unwritten... and plans can change... 

And then we might someday wish we had spent 20K less and bought a cheapie boat.. 
but not this year and not this week. (!)

After owning a "high end" good quality sailboat for 13 years, there is no way we would have wanted to try and maintain a cheap-built boat. It's just not worth the time, money, and hassle.

Opinions rendered cheerfully, YMMV.


LB


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

We should all remember what SEMIJim's criteria was:
"(To me: Competent engineering and high build quality trumps everything but my ability to pay, regardless of the product.)" and offer advice accordingly.

Maybe he doesn't really mean it...but you should keep it in mind in offerring your opinions.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Good point - if high quality trumps, then a smaller boat from a higher end manufacturer would best serve his interests. You are correct on that one - the Hunter would not be the best boat for that set of criteria - my bad.

I guess I just jump to the defense of Hunters blindly sometimes.

------------------------

OK, I have to comment on those other remarks... I can't resist (sorry to hijack the tread).



> Heck, I used to wonder if people were ill-advised to buy all these Bayliners-With-A-Mast


LMFAO - that description is a little harsh. Some would say they wonder why some folks would want a cramped bomb shelter with an undersized mast that needs 30 knts of breeze to sail for a boat for coastal sailing as well... Not to say this about anyone specific, but just in general terms like that Bayliner remark...



> They want a roomy boat for "gracious dockside living" and occasional anchoring out.


99% of the time "gracious dockside living" = gracious anchoring out living.



> They sometimes want to sail, albeit with a limited amount of allowed discomfort in winds of 10 to 16 kts, in small seas. They want high freeboard and a cockpit clear of "ropes" and sailing clutter, expecially when not actually proceeding somewhere under sail.


16 knts - discomfort? I am having a ton of fun, maybe having to put in the first reef, and some of those full keel beasts are finally getting to turn to engine off to get more that 2 knts of boat speed. Guarantee you where I sail (Chespeake Bay), the Hunters have the motors on less than the IP's, Cape Dories, etc. Especially if they are actually going anywhere. We call 'em "ropes" huh?

My comments are all in good fun too... I just had to respond.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hunter....racer....performance, I am just having hard time reading those words in the same sentence. But then I am a Pearson Boy. I know you said your wife doesn't like the lines of a Pearson, check this out:
YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale

The Pearson 10m is a hearty wellbuilt boat and a big on performance for it's size. Points well and does fine cutting through waves. A little bigger than the 28 feet you mentioned, but check it out.


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## jorgenl (Aug 14, 2006)

IMHO - it all depends on what you want to do. Sail a lot or spend your time fixing the boat. As a rookie I prefer to sail a lot and learn from doing.

Buy a well maintained boat that is clean and ready to go sailing! If that happens to be a Hunter - fine.

I bought a Hunter 30 about a year ago. I looked at a lot of boats in the same price range and most were dirty and not well maintained.
The boat I bought had had 2 owners, the last owned it for 11 years. He maintained it meticiously (sp?), always serviced engine, replaced the standing rigging a couple of years ago, relatively news sails, everything in good order and super clean.

That means that I could spend a lot of time sailing and learning. I use my boat a lot, every weekend either for longer day sails or cruises. Most weeks I also get out at least one week night.

Of course, I coulda bought an older so called "higher quality" boat for the same $$$ and spent the last year fixing it up instead.

I guess what I am saying here is that this is your first boat, buy a boat that is well maintained and ready to go sailing! Use the time when the weather sucks to improve and maintain it. Maximize time on water, that is the fun part.

There is a lot of Hunter bashing going on, I am not defending Hunter, I am not that knowledgabe (yet) but to me my 15 year old boat seems perfectly fine with no quality problems. OK the joinery etc is not Passport, IP or Nauto r standard but in good nick and it works.

I live next to the Marina and everyday I see those expensive high quality passagemakers nicely docked and hardly ever out on the big dangerous Chesapeake.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Lots of good comments on this subject, and a few prejudiced comments as well. Sort of reminds me of the Ford truck guy who says Chevy's suck and he'd rather be caught dead before owning one... Or my former brother-in-law who only drank Coors Light and thought Bud tasted like "piss-water". OK, I'm a beer snob and they both taste the same to me. And a significant enough difference between Ford and Chevy? To that degree? C'mon!...

Do I even have a point, here? I forgot. Sorry. Anyway, I agree with Barry on the Newport 28. That was my first boat, and I had compared it to similar priced/sized Catalinas, Hunters, Benes, etc. Though it was built to compete with those other production boats, ie. built to a price, the Capital Yachts products (Newports and Gulf models) ended up at the top of my list.

No matter. Should you end up buying a Hunter that meets your price/size and use requirements, and it passes the survey well enough, guess what? You'll more than likely be a very happy Hunter owner. And isn't that the bottom line?


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Just to let y'all know: I _am_ reading (and enjoying, and appreciating) all of your comments. I'll address the points and recommendations you've made a bit later. A bit pressed for time at the moment.

Thanks _very_ much for your help--all of you!

Jim


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Okay, dead tired, but your comments deserve a reply, so here goes...

Sailormann,

This is not only the first large-ish boat we're buying, it's the first boat we're buying period. However, I crewed on a 28' Pearson for two seasons or so (mostly casual sailing, some racing) and my wife owned a 10 meter keeless centerboard boat with a brother many years ago. Yes, it's occurred to us maybe we're jumping-in a bit too far, right off. We'll see...

Aloha is on the list for consideration. (Actually, I'd already been looking at some on-line.) Thanks.

BarryL,

Newport added to the "long list." Thanks!

T34C,

Your comments, re: build quality, mirror my thinking.

olson34,

We want a *sail*boat--a boat for sailing, but one that we can also live in for short periods w/o being unnecessarily cramped or uncomfortable. Thus we desire a racer/cruiser or performance cruiser we can *sail*. (Maybe even race, later on?) We plan, ultimately, to cruise the Great Lakes and stay in the boat while doing so. (In addition to day sailing.) That's the plan at this time, anyway .

And no: We don't regard "ropes" as a nuisance. A balky iron genny is a nuisance. A balky head is a nuisance. Many things on a sailboat can be nuisances, but "sailing clutter" is rather necessary. 

sailingfool,

Yes, I really meant it when I said good engineering and build quality trumps everything but my ability to pay. The money I pay for things represents time out of my life. I don't care to spend it on shoddy products. I appreciate the quality, "feel" and operation of well-designed, well-built things. Such things are a joy to use.

sailh34,

Your candor is much appreciated. And I agree: 16 kts: "discomfort?" Isn't 16 kts about perfect? 

gregus,

She doesn't care for the lines (I don't get it) and she prefers the cabin layouts of some other boats we've looked at on-line. (I think she just needs to see a couple Pearsons in RL, honestly.)

Yeah, I noticed the Pearson 10M. A bit larger than we were considering at this time (as I noted to Sailormann: We feel we're pushing it a bit going for a 20-30' boat right out of the gate, as it is). But it does look good  Thanks for the suggestion.

jorgenl,

We're only considering boats that are in good-to-excellent condition and we will have any prospective purchase surveyed--all for the reasons you mentioned. Yeah, it's going to cost us a bit (?) more, but we feel it will be worth it in the long run. In particular: We wouldn't want to be faced with major maintenance right off the bat, if we can avoid it.

And yes, we realize there _will_ be maintenance. And upgrades we'll want to do. We're not afraid to get our hands dirty. (I do wonder if my wife will be able to winch me up the mast in a boson's chair, tho, should it become necessary. And I wonder what it'd be like hangin' from a halyard, hugging an aluminum stick, 30-40' in the air, waving back-and-forth, back-and-forth, back-and... Sounds... *cough*... interesting.)

Thanks again, everybody, for your thoughts. Very much appreciated.

Jim


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## tommyt (Sep 21, 2002)

Although not a big Hunter fan I have sailed on some very nicely cared for and great sailing older Hunters. There is a Hunter, I think a 88, just two slips away from me. Boat looks like new!

Moonfish, I give you(and Fred) the post of the day award. Your last sentence says it all as far as I am concerned. Great post. 

Wait a minute, I like Bud! And Sagris! And most other beers.Smithwicks tops my list I think, but still comparing. Getting thirsty now.


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## Morgan3820 (Dec 21, 2006)

hunter sure makes an ugly 'boat'


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

SEMIJim,

As for your comment "I do wonder if my wife will be able to winch me up the mast in a boson's chair ...," you might want to take a look at the ATN Topclimber.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

greggus said:


> Hunter....racer....performance, I am just having hard time reading those words in the same sentence. But then I am a Pearson Boy. I know you said your wife doesn't like the lines of a Pearson, check this out:
> YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale
> 
> The Pearson 10m is a hearty wellbuilt boat and a big on performance for it's size. Points well and does fine cutting through waves. A little bigger than the 28 feet you mentioned, but check it out.


So we checked it out (on line). Holy smokes: What a boat! We both love it. Unfortunately, it's nearly double our budget .


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

> Cal 25
> Four sails; main, jib, genoa & spinnaker. Honda four-stroke. Pedestal wheel steering. Pop-top w/canvas and all screens. Cradle. Large cockpit. Fast boat. Price includes complete AMF Alcort Sunfush.
> CDN $5,900
> (905) 426-0035 anytime
> Web: www.myspace.com/1961lee


Here ya go ! ....


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Sailormann said:


> Here ya go ! ....


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thought it was a link to the boat... This newfangled technology stuff just doesn't go well with beer on Saturay night


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## rperret (Apr 11, 2003)

Try looking at an S2 - I've got an 1985 S2 27 - it is well built, has quality materials, and can be had for under $15k. Other S2's to consider would be the 8.5 or 8.0. 

Good luck.

Rick


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Sailormann said:


> Thought it was a link to the boat... This newfangled technology stuff just doesn't go well with beer on Saturay night


We've actually been looking at 28-30', suitable for cruising. But we're haven't seen a whole lot, locally, that we both like _and_ is more-or-less w/in our budget. (Even when I expand the search to "less than $20k" - which I find both surprising and, occasionally, discouraging.) So we may just give up on such a boat at this time and scale-down to a day-sailer for a season. We can always sell that later, and upgrade. And it'd probably be better (easier?) for us to (re-)learn on the smaller boat.

Then again: We've only been searching for about three weeks, we've only closely examined three (two the same), and we've only sailed on one of them so far. Took me nearly a year to find just the house I wanted. And, in a way, the search and research are fun.

We've got a strong prospect we looked at today. If somebody doesn't buy her out from under us before then, we hope to sail her next weekend, to see if we like how she sails. We'll make an offer, if so. (We were supposed to sail her this weekend, but that's another story .)


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

rperret said:


> Try looking at an S2 - I've got an 1985 S2 27 - it is well built, has quality materials, and can be had for under $15k. Other S2's to consider would be the 8.5 or 8.0.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Rick


Ok, Rick. Thanks for the recommendation. I'll take a look. (I think your's has been the first S2 recommendation.)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

> We've got a strong prospect we looked at today. If somebody doesn't buy her out from under us before then, we hope to sail her next weekend,


 Hope it works out for you. And don't discount the idea of a smaller boat to start with. I certainly enjoyed my smaller boats at least as much as the larger ones, and I'll NEVER buy anything bigger than 30 feet, (unless I am forced to move onto one permanently for some reason).


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Sailormann said:


> Hope it works out for you.


Thanks. We've our fingers crossed. I'll call the owner later this week to see if she's still available.

I'm kind of kicking myself atm. When we were talking about taking her our for a trial sail, he remarked "Sure, if you guys are serious." And, my mind on something else at that moment, I heard it, but didn't process it. Had I been in the moment, instead of somewhere else, I'd have replied "If we sailed her now and liked the way she handled, we're prepared to make an offer immediately."



Sailormann said:


> And don't discount the idea of a smaller boat to start with. I certainly enjoyed my smaller boats at least as much as the larger ones,


How much doing that would would make sense, for us, would depend entirely on how long it took us to get up to speed and start tiring of Lake St. Clair. That _could_ happen relatively quickly.



Sailormann said:


> and I'll NEVER buy anything bigger than 30 feet, (unless I am forced to move onto one permanently for some reason).


Yeah, that was kind of what I was thinking--until I saw the Pearson 10M


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Lots of good adivice has been incuded here, but I thought I'd chime in with my two cents and I promise it will be worth what you paid for it.

First, I don't think 30 some odd feet is too big for a first boat. Last year my wife and I bought a 32 as our first for sailing on the Chesapeake Bay. The bay is somewhat "protected", but it is BIG. The only time our boat seems too big is within 5 feet of the dock and the more practice you get at docking the easier that gets. The feeling of the boat being "big" diminishes in direct proportion to distance from land, wave size and wind speed. Our 32 can feel really small sometimes. That said, I think your budget limits you to a slightly smaller boat if you want something other than a "project".

Second, I don't think I've seen anyone suggest a Sabre 28. I checked YW and they do fall in your price range. I did a lot of research when we were looking and this boat was among the best built, best sailing in our price range (similar to yours). Unfortunately, in the end we decided it was just too snug for our situation since our boat is a several hour drive from our home and we spend every weekend on the boat. The larger Sabres 38 or 40 are among the boats I dream of moving up to one day.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Chesapeake boat size*

I agree that for the Chesapeake, a slightly larger boat may serve you better. We started off with a 25 footer and found that if going on longer trips on the Bay, it was a little small. Granted, the boat was fine and would get us there, but when the weather kicks up, the bigger boat feels much better - the middle of the bay can be a wet bashing ride when the wind picks up. Also, if you plan to cruise the Chespeake (weekend and week long type trips) and do not want to feel like you are camping, I would try to get something that feels comforatable to spend the weekend on when it is pouring down rain and you are spending the day below. Slip fees are cheap (relative) on the Bay, and even though maintenance will be a little more, I think the recurring costs on a larger boat are not as bad out here as you would see out on the left coast or Florida or some other areas.

Honestly, bigger boats, to me, are easier to sail than the smaller ones. Some would argue then you are not learning anything by sailing the larger boat (can't feel it), but that is probably up for debate. If you plan on daysailing the majority of the time with occasional anchoring out, a smaller boat would be great though.

We know some folks with a Sabre 28 - really good boat though may require some work since they are a little older. We have three Sabre friends and I have been really impressed with their boats. Those little buggers are quick little boats.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

midlifesailor and sailh34,

Thanks for your comments. We're currently looking at 28-30' boats, but if we found, say, a Pearson 10M that was w/in, or even close to, our budget, well...  (We _really_ like those, from what we've seen on-line.)

Regarding the Sabre 28: Yes, we know. (Tho thanks for the suggestion.) That's what we looked at yesterday. Unfortunately, most of them we've seen that are in the condition we want and w/in our budget are far away (CT, MD, etc.) and likely have been in salt water. (I don't have a handle on the implications of that, yet.) I think there may be one up in MN.

We're staring to entertain "options." A different boat. A bigger boat. A much smaller boat for this season. A long-distance purchase. Going crazy.

Wait... I guess we've already done that last option... 

Jim


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

There was a pearson 10m at Jordan Lake outside of Raleigh that has been a freshwater boat most of it's life from what I was told. I think the guy has been trying to sell it for awhile and the price may be right. I can see if I can find his info if you want. Don't know what transport to your area might be from Raleigh?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I found it, it is not at Jordan Lake but Kerr Lake which is on the NC/VA line. I talked to someone who had looked at the boat a while back and he said it was in pretty good shape but other than that I don't know anything about the boat.

PEARSON 10M (33') SAILBOAT - REDUCED


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

JustMeUC said:


> I found it, it is not at Jordan Lake but Kerr Lake which is on the NC/VA line. I talked to someone who had looked at the boat a while back and he said it was in pretty good shape but other than that I don't know anything about the boat.
> 
> PEARSON 10M (33') SAILBOAT - REDUCED


Thanks, JustMeUC. That price may actually be doable... depending...

I have to wonder why it's been wanting a new owner? That's a desireable boat in a rather expensive neighbourhood (Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill). The "as is" comment right at the top of his advert is setting off low-level alarm bells.

Nonetheless, I think I'll shoot the seller an email, just to satisfy my curiousity.

I wonder how much shipping from NC to S.E. MI. would be? 

MapQuest says that'd be about a 12-1/2 drive. Wonder if I'm still up for a drive that long, all in one go...? (I absolutely _detest_ commercial air travel anymore. %!#$#@! flying cattle cars .)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

For some reason I thought you were in the MD/VA area.

There are so many boats for sale "already on the coast" of NC that one may not be able to sale a boat on the lake as well here in Raleigh. Moving it to the ocean is not going to be cheap and I just can't imagine many people wanting a sailboat of that size on a lake here with the ocean only 2 hours away. Everyone I have met here has their boat in the ocean.

I would gladly go look at it for you, but being a complete newbie myself I wouldn't have a clue what I am looking at except if it is kept cosmetically clean!! Wouldn't tell you much about the real condition of the boat I am afraid.....


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

JustMeUC said:


> For some reason I thought you were in the MD/VA area.


Nope. Southeast Michigan.



JustMeUC said:


> There are so many boats for sale "already on the coast" of NC that one may not be able to sale a boat on the lake as well here in Raleigh. Moving it to the ocean is not going to be cheap and I just can't imagine many people wanting a sailboat of that size on a lake here with the ocean only 2 hours away. Everyone I have met here has their boat in the ocean.


I suppose that might explain it. Or at least part of it. We MapQuest'd that location. It's kind of out in the middle of nowhere, isn't it? Looks that way, anyway.



JustMeUC said:


> I would gladly go look at it for you, but being a complete newbie myself I wouldn't have a clue what I am looking at except if it is kept cosmetically clean!! Wouldn't tell you much about the real condition of the boat I am afraid.....


I appreciate the offer! Probably not much point, tho. Part of the problem is that lake is apparently some kind of military/government restricted area. There's no haul-out facilities. To haul a boat out, they have to have somebody come in from Oriental (wherever that is) with a special rig. Plus, I imagine an area like that isn't exactly crawling with well-qualified surveyors. So, by the time we paid for a haul-out survey, probably with travel time for the surveyor, and engine inspection, travel costs for us to inspect her and for sea trails, plus transportation for the boat, we'd be way, _way_ over-budget.

The Pearson 10M is the only boat I've seen on-line so far that tugs my heart strings, but I think that, even as aggressive as the price on this one is, I'm going to have to let somebody else have her .

Thanks again for the lead and the offer.

Jim


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Oriental is where all the folks in Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill keep their boats!!! LOL

Good Luck in your search!


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Try looking for the 28' S2 listed at Great Lakes Yachts??? in Sturgeon Bay, WI. I'm not home on my computer right now or I'd find the link. I know the guy selling it and can tell you the it is in perfect condition. (They should of bought one of those Catalina Condo's instead.)


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Larger vs. Smaller: 

If your desire is cruising then I suggest you buy the largest boat you can find that suits your purpose and your budget. 
Most full time cruisers today have boats in the 40-45 ft. range so 30' or so is considered QUITE small among cruisers. 

For beginning sailors there are 2 reasons I think that people go small...
1. Money...most of us start small and work our way up for this reason. 
2. Fear...that a large boat is more difficult to learn on and handle and be safe on. 

I can't help on #1 but I CAN say that LARGER boats are easier to learn on, safer and come with things like self tailing winches and wheels that make sailing easier. For cruising...the space and ameneties are obvious and diesels are way better than outboards. The ONLY thing more difficult in a big boat is coming into the dock which you will HAVE to learn someday anyway and it only takes a few tries to get decent at it!! Under sail...the larger boats generally are less tippy and scary to newbies...have a kinder motion and anre safer as the wind pipes up. 25 knots is downright scary sometimes in a 25 footer...and nice sailing weather in a 40 footer. 
Buying and selling several boats to finally get up enough nerve to buy the size you really need for your dreams is expensive and no fun since you are almost guaranteed to lose money on each transaction. 
So...if $$ is NOT the issue...then bigger is better no matter what level of experience you have.


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## LaPlaya (Jun 12, 2007)

SemiJim
I don't know if this one is still available or not. 
Location: Sault Ste. Marie 
Date Listed: 28-May-07 




1973 Pearson 30 foot Sail Boat Cruiser-Racer
Price $11,500.00
Pearson 30 sailboat. Rigged with a Profurl genoa, an asymmetrical racing spinnaker with spinnaker pole and a main sail. The Atomic 4 has been perfectly reliable. She is squeaky clean throughout. Based at Traverse City for cruising Lake Huron and Georgian Bay. Owner has been transferred to BC and so will sell a good boat very cheap. E[email protected] 

AL


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

The Pearson 30 is an excellent "starter" boat and a perfectly reasonable weekender/coastal/Great Lakes cruiser. She'll even acquit herself on the racecourse. Eleven large is just about right if she passes survey. A couple could have a lot of fun on such a length of classic plastic.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

T34C said:


> Try looking for the 28' S2 listed at Great Lakes Yachts??? in Sturgeon Bay, WI. I'm not home on my computer right now or I'd find the link. I know the guy selling it and can tell you the it is in perfect condition. (They should of bought one of those Catalina Condo's instead.)


I found it: 28' S2 8.6 Nice boat. Looks pristine. Would prefer a head with a holding tank (tho after what I've been reading, God only knows why) and I'd be wanting a roller furler for the jib, ultimately, but those wouldn't be show-stoppers. What _is_ a show-stopper is the price. Probably well worth it, esp. considering her condition, but she's $5500 over our purchase budget. Thanks for the lead, tho.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

LaPlaya said:


> SemiJim
> I don't know if this one is still available or not.
> Location: Sault Ste. Marie
> Date Listed: 28-May-07
> ...


I'll try to find her. Thanks for the pointer.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

SEMIJim,
If you klike on the Great Lakes, you are far better off just looking at local boats than messing with something distant that's been in salt water. Boats in fresh water age much more slowly than boats in salt, I'd say 75% less, i.e. a 5 year old salt boat, all elese being equal, looks as worn as a 20 year old fresh water boat. Regardless of what the differential is, it exists and you should only look at fresh water boats, since you have that choice.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Valiente said:


> The Pearson 30 is an excellent "starter" boat and a perfectly reasonable weekender/coastal/Great Lakes cruiser. She'll even acquit herself on the racecourse.


Funny thing about that: I've wanted to consider 28' - 30' Pearsons all along. It's my understanding they're well-built, have decent below-decks accommodations, and are relatively fast. But my wife said she didn't like them. Then greggus posted that link to a Pearson 10M. We looked at that and both of us fell head-over-heels in love with it. Unfortunately, even the most aggressively-priced of them are well outside our budget. But there has been one happy side-effect: Now my wife seems interested in considering Pearsons.



Valiente said:


> Eleven large is just about right if she passes survey.


Perhaps--depending on condition, maintenance (updates/refits), etc. There are other 28' - 30' Pearsons in the Great Lakes area, some closer to us than that and 2-4 years newer, for similar prices.



Valiente said:


> A couple could have a lot of fun on such a length of classic plastic.


There are a number of boats we're finding we like. We'd still like to find a Sabre 28 in Really Good Condition, in our neighbourhood, but we've seen some Pearsons and Tartans that look interesting. There's also an Albin 8.5 Cumulus, up north of us, we haven't called on yet... I've got seven boats I passed links to my wife for. Lessee... An Ericson, an Irwin (dunno how those two are, quality wise, tho), a Tartan (I understand those are in the same class as Pearson and Sabre, quality-wise?), a Morgan (interesting cabin layout) and an S2 8.5.

Looks like we're going to be taking some Great Lakes road trips 

Jim


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailingfool said:


> Regardless of what the differential is, it exists and you should only look at fresh water boats, since you have that choice.


Thanks for the pointer, sailingfool. Yeah, that's what we've decided to do. I've found that, by widening the search region to include the entire Great Lakes region, we're finding lots of likely prospects. May not have found The One, yet, but the odds are much better we will. With a little luck, we'll even find her so close she can be sailed home


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

This is not a bad source: boat for sale

Also, once you have found a listing that you like - on Yachtworld, or another site - but it is a bit out of your range, watch it and see how long it sits on the market. Boats will start to get cheaper towards the middle/end of July. The prices that are posted will not change, but the vendors will become more flexible as it starts looking like they' be paying for haulout and storage for another season.

And don't be afraid to call someone up and tell them you have a budget of a certain amount... even if they are asking double, they may be willing to come down if the boat has been on the market for a long time...

Keep checking listings and tracking how long the boats have been for sale.


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## 737sail (Apr 29, 2007)

*No pride, and proud of it! Got a Hunter!*

"I am going to be the lone voice of dissent... For what it sounds like you will be using the boat for, the Hunters will be just fine. A lot of the Hunters from that era sail pretty well and are fast boats. They are a great value regardless of what anyone here would have you believe. Also, I would rather have a 20 year old well cared for Hunter than a neglected 20 year old higher initial quality boat any day (especially for the price I would pay). The survey should tell you what you need to know.

There are a ton of happy hunter owners out there - they are the largest manufacturer in the US and have a lot of repeat business (Catalina is probably close to same size as well)."

Yes, we are happy, and had a Hunter in the past and were happy....which is why we got another one...we bought a Hunter 380 recently, after looking at many other boats that we salivated over....yeah, yeah, yeah, I would LOVE a Sabre, or an IP, and have no problem admitting it....I get green when I see some, and many other boats, but had to live in the reality of my life...

Reality is: that I am not, at this point in my life, going to "strap myself" cash-wise (I like to sleep well at night), we are "part time sailors" with full time jobs, part time jobs "on demand" (fix up rental properties), children in elementary school, a home to maintain, we do lots of "land -traveling", too, we have to think of retirement, college, and a future large Sabre to save for, and we have over an hour drive to the Marina, which at times conflicts with soccer and other such things....we also won't go sailing if the weather is poor, and when we overnight it's in a protected cove/creek that is about a 20 minute powerboat ride away from our friends at another marina or, alternatively, near the dock of a friend or relative.

As said, I like to sleep well at night, in our reality. Our Hunter is really comfy (so it's nice to sleep on) and fairly easy to sail (38 ft) and, truly, I hope, the integrity of the Hunter will be just fine for mild days on Chesapeake Bay and the many day trips it offers.

Overnight passages? Probably not....at least not until we really learn the ropes and have the time and money and boat for such....(yes, I can say Sabre)

In short, and due to the acceptance of the Reality, we bought a Hunter for a coastal cruiser with creature comforts and anticipated "easy", short sailing, really learning the ropes, and an affordable price tag.

So, not being proud, I know what a Hunter is, embrace it for just that, don't expect more than what it is, and appreciate the heck out of the great "RV" amenities and fun and learning it has to offer. We have already had tons of fun and family time and I budgeted time and a money for "Hunter" issues....which, please don't shoot me, I am guessing other "better boats" may, on a very rare occasion, experience.

As a side, there are tons and tons of Hunters at the (large) Marina (as well as IPs, Pearsons, Sabres, Catalinas, Beneteaus, etc) and I see many, many of these Hunters leave the dock for 2, 3, 4 days at a time and, no lie, they have always made it back, looking no worse for the wear and with the owners smiling and chatting and planning their next "few days out" on the Bay.

I have to say, it appears that the Hunters "go out" more often than the "others" but that could just be because: 1) there are so many of them that they create an optical illusion that all the boats in the channel are Hunters....or it could be because 2) Hunter owners truly are an "ignorant is bliss" bunch and just don't know that they really shouldn't be out sailing their bathtub toy and so they do it often and regardless or 3) the owner's of the "others" have to work all the time to afford the "other" and so they have no time to sail (just kidding, no offense and no I'm not green......though I have to say, some of the boats at the Marina are GORGEOUS blue-water boats that I just want to TOUCH every time I walk by them....maybe one day....).

RE: the "which boat" question to get: The answer to your question should be easy, really, if you admit and accept the answers to 1) "what's your reality at this point in your life?" and 2) "How proud are you?"

If the answer to the latter question is "not very", and the Hunter REALLY (just admit it) meets the bill for the former question, then the Hunter should stay on the list of options.


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