# Month 3 Expenses & Costs of Cruising



## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

We slowed down and this past month only traveled from Beaufort SC to St Augustine Fl and then back up to Green Cove Springs Fl. We traveled all the routes outside instead of the ICW, which resulted in some backtracking. During this time spent 3 nights at slip in Brunswick GA, a week on a mooring at St Augustine FL, and we are doing a month on a mooring here in Green Cove Springs FL to be with family during Christmas. 

One thung we noted is that the mooring in GCS is real cheap ($165/mo that will be in next months numbers) it does not mean it is cheap to stop here. Because this place is 2 miles walk to even the basic gas station store we got a rental car for the month (cost will be in next month expensive when we pay it). If you add the car to the cost of the month's mooring it would have been less to stay at slip in a nice marina that was in walking distance to shopping etc. But no one had a month rate slip so this is where we ended up.

Nothing broke on the boat so all we had were the normal little maintenance and repair items and the largest boat item was a spare propane bottle because I got tired of being half way through cooking dinner and having it go empty, so that was $200 of boat costs for the month.

We ate out a fair number of times still and I think we did so every night in St Augustine. But we also didn't do any expensive meals out (I count McDonald's etc as eating out) and we have done more lunches lately. As such we got more groceries and stuff at the store and since we aren't rice and beans people that combination of groceries + eating out are about the same.

So the costs:
Gifts (it's Christmas but most are in next month's costs) - $184.34
Food, soda, beer, sundries, clothes, etc - $1071.96
Boat maintenance, repairs, upgrades -$478.56
Diesel - $64.72
Marina - $342.04
Entertainment - $91.98 (got to find more things to do)
Transportation - $69.24
Communication & storage - $271.12
Health insurance - $22.27
Eating out - $532.34

That's $3,041.58, pretty close to our target of $3k/mo. But is spending too much as the number has no savings for big ticket items in the future.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

You're doing it WRONG!

Ooops, I haven't read your post yet.




.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

That's fine.

Nice pick up, apré the event, that there's false economies. Cheap marinas that require renting a car is a good one.

McDonals being cheap is an utter fallacy. Its quite expensive both as a drop in. However, as I climb slowly atop a soap box, American & Australian culture is to stuff face as soon as you go put. Going to the Cinema? Get there and stuff face. Going to the mall? They there and pig out. Going to the Art Show? Find a trough and dive in.

But with a BIG home cooked breakfast on the boat I am fine till dinner time. Or, if one is still refusing to cut carbs, take a cut lunch from the boat and eat in a park watching some romantic view.
I save dinners at resturants until I can afford a good one. I find its less healthy to eat in a cheap restaurant than I can on the boat. 

So you are "Much Improved" over last month. Go up a grade in Cruisers Budget School.


BTW, I couldn't find this in NYC but maybe u can... Here in the Caribbean i can get bulk meat at a Food Service Wholesalers. I pay $7.95 per pound for US Rib eye steak when bought as a whole rib etc about 15 pounds. Its fresh, I have to cut, pack and freeze it. But in the shops its $20 to $40 per pound.

The freezer and eating as many meals at home as possible really keeps a lid on my budget whilst letting me enjoy more expensive restaurants.

Food for thought.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Your budget numbers got me thinking. For less than $3,000 you could rent a two bedroom two bath ocean front condo in St Augustine for a month. Easier to provision plus two pools (one heated). No repair worries, no diesel fuel, unlimited water (including hot), wifi, dishwasher, bathtub, washer and dryer. You could invite friends/family down and have them take you out to dinner and/or buy groceries. All this and you don't have to buy and maintain a boat. Now I'm beginning to wonder why would people cruise on a boat at 3K/month?  What am I missing here?


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

mbianka said:


> Your budget numbers got me thinking. For less than $3,000 you could rent a two bedroom two bath ocean front condo in St Augustine for a month


You're missing food, restaurants and entertainment. You are just talking about rent . And rent tbats in one non-adventurous place.

St Augustine has a pirate weekend every year. Don can go be a pirate the whole year.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Mark-
"BTW, I couldn't find this in NYC but maybe u can..."
Last time I checked there was a "Western Beef" that sold meat by the whole or half animal, located off Northern Blvd. in Queens about 1 mile east of the Queensborough Bridge. In Manhattan itself? (In case that's what you are calling NYC, because only us natives are allowed to call Manhattan "The City") I don't think so, unless something has opened way north or someplace. Manhattan kitchen appliances, like freezers, are either big SubZero's that come with big budgets in fancy places, or smaller rental apartment appliances that won't hold half of a cow, let alone a goat.


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## Waterrat (Sep 8, 2007)

Hey Don I have been reading your last three months of spending. Let me just help everyone out here. You may think you are spending the money you earned how you and your partner would like to spend it but you are both all wrong. You should just buy Christmas ornaments, eat baloney and swing on your halyards naked. What are you thinking? If you buy Old Milwaukee by the case you can save some cash too. Don't forget the sunscreen while swinging. Swinging on the halyard you pervs. If you wait till December 26 you can save a ton on xmas ornaments. Keep enjoying the ride. Let me know if you want any more advice of how you are wrong and I know better how to spend your money. 

Amazing the crazy stuff folks have said on your threads.


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## Rocky Mountain Breeze (Mar 30, 2015)

Don, I also would like to thank you for posting the personal information concerning your experiences cruising. Some folks already know it all but a lot of us are interested in the reality of a cruising lifestyle.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Rocky Mountain Breeze said:


> Don, I also would like to thank you for posting the personal information concerning your experiences cruising. Some folks already know it all but a lot of us are interested in the reality of a cruising lifestyle.


Yes, I agree.
Thank you Don.
The first year is the most difficult.

In our first year we had a currency fluctuation that wiped out out cruising kitty. At the beginning of the month I drew cash and put it into separate envelopes labeled what it was for. When any envelope was empty that was it.
It was a very, very difficult year. :|

As I look back on it now from the comfort of some luxury marina where I've booked for a month it was harder than any cruising dream could be. But we made it through.

To new people pondering costs, no matter what your budget, be very frugal in year 1. You need to be. But have faith that it will come OK in the end.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

mbianka said:


> Your budget numbers got me thinking. For less than $3,000 you could rent a two bedroom two bath ocean front condo in St Augustine for a month. Easier to provision plus two pools (one heated). No repair worries, no diesel fuel, unlimited water (including hot), wifi, dishwasher, bathtub, washer and dryer. You could invite friends/family down and have them take you out to dinner and/or buy groceries. All this and you don't have to buy and maintain a boat. Now I'm beginning to wonder why would people cruise on a boat at 3K/month?  What am I missing here?


You're missing not wanting to share a wall with your neighbor. I think this falls under the category, if I have to explain it you would not understand.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I know how I can save a ton of money. All I have to do is get on anchor or even a cheap mooring without internet access, then sink my dinghy! Nothing saves money the way just being on the boat does.

But that's only fun for a short while and not the reason I'm cruising.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

hellosailor said:


> Mark-
> "BTW, I couldn't find this in NYC but maybe u can..."
> Last time I checked there was a "Western Beef" that sold meat by the whole or half animal, located off Northern Blvd. in Queens about 1 mile east of the Queensborough Bridge. In Manhattan itself? (In case that's what you are calling NYC, because only us natives are allowed to call Manhattan "The City") I don't think so, unless something has opened way north or someplace. Manhattan kitchen appliances, like freezers, are either big SubZero's that come with big budgets in fancy places, or smaller rental apartment appliances that won't hold half of a cow, let alone a goat.


When I was living a board at the Chelsea Piers on the West side of Manhattan there was a Western Beef in the Chelsea area. That was back in in 2001. Not sure if it is still there.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Yes, I agree.
> Thank you Don.
> The first year is the most difficult.
> 
> ...


Pretty much all of our money is invested in the stock market. Our first year out (2008), the great crash happened and we found ourselves poorer (on paper) by >50%! We were in the far Southern Bahamas without internet so didn't even realize it was happening until we returned 6 months later.

Luckily, there was absolutely no place or possibility of spending any money where we cruised for those 6 months, so that helped. After getting over the shock, and letting the urge pass to beg for our old jobs back, we just kept our heads down and kept going - being frugal like MarkJ describes for a year.

Well, everything eventually passes, and this did too. We now could stay in the comfort of a luxury marina next to MarkJ, but anyone who would have him gives us pause&#8230;

Mark


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

jephotog said:


> You're missing not wanting to share a wall with your neighbor. I think this falls under the category, if I have to explain it you would not understand.


Easy now. I certainly understand that but, being at a marina has even less privacy. Personally, I get on the boat to get away from such situations. Going to shore is more of an imposition and something I try to avoid for as long as possible. I'd rather hang out on the hook far away from the temptations of waterfront bars, marinas, restaurants etc... While doing this I doubt my expenses ever approached $1K much less $3K. Best food I had was always in the cockpit and so was the view. I say stay away from land (unless it's a deserted beach you are anchored off of) nothing but, trouble and $$$ in the town.


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

Don--

Thank you for your reporting efforts and information. I am glad this thread has not (yet?) devolved into useless acrimony as it has on that other sailing site as I'm sure your information is very helpful to many.

For what its worth, we have found that being aboard is always less costly than an equal time period ashore/land based. Among other reasons, simply not buying gas for two cars at least once a week or, sometimes, more. While we have to buy fuel for the yacht and the dinghy, we do so far less frequently. We do spend more on food stores but far, far, less on prepared foods and/or dining out and so eating/food costs prove to be much less. Moreover, working together to prepare meals is an enjoyable, sometimes humorous, social time as is sharing the meals and dawdling over coffee or a glass of wine afterward. We find we are also healthier/stronger as getting around often involves simply walking when, in or shore-side life, we might simply get in a car and drive a mile to a market. Walking to market also has the side benefit of limiting impulse buying as having to lug stores back to the boat in a ruck makes one very aware of throwing in unneeded items which saves money.

We have been tracking our expenses nearly to the penny since 1995 using the "Quicken" accounting program which allows us to keep close tabs on our money/spending. With a few keystrokes we can see what we've spent on the yacht: routine maintenance, supplies, repairs, spares, replacements, etc. etc. etc. We can also see/graph general living expenses which are notably less when aboard the boat for a few weeks. (Quicken is easier to use than some of the spreadsheet programs and useful for reports and budgeting.)

N'any case...Thank you for sharing your experience and budgeting. It is very useful information. And, Good Luck for your continued travels! 

Cheers!

s/v HyLyte!


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

It's nice to sit out on anchor in a quiet spot where there is no one else, ...................................... once in awhile for a few days.


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## Waterrat (Sep 8, 2007)

Don I think part of this thread wants to evolve into how cruisers have chosen to budget their money over the long haul. What worked for them. Just as what is working for you. Over your various threads on this topic some posters are poorly phrase with accusing manner, some are jealous, some are funny. There are well meaning folks sharing their experience for you and others to mine for what works for their style. 

It will be interesting if shared long term the consistency and themes over time. Not your food budget or but typical maintenance, geographic etc etc. 

It is quite fascinating to hear folks response to severe economic destruction at the beginning of retirement and beginning of a dream. It is commendable to have persevered. I am sure there were many who did not. Perseverance seems a useful trait for long term cursing to accept the challenges beyond your control and start the steps to the next goal. It is not an adventure with out some unseen challenge to your goal.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

We've had a tough few months. A new refer compressor @ us$800.00 with over us$600.00 air freight, a new outboard @ ec$4,000, a new Zodiac Mk1 Classic @ us$3,500.00 with sea freight and Grenada's 2.5% not tax, tax. A quickie bottom job w/paint ran a couple of grand, but that was normal bi-annual prep for the charter season. 
Of course, we're hoping for at least 10 years on the compressor, a few years on the OB and 10 years on the Zodiac. At least none of it came out of our monthly income, only charter income. Had we not been chartering, we could have saved the air freight and waited for a better deal on an outboard, done a considerably cheaper haul/paint in Trini, but we couldn't have gotten a better price on the Zodiac had we purchased it direct from Zodiac, France (eu$3,200.00 plus freight). Got lucky there!
With all that out of the way (including the new main earlier in the year), there's only a few big ticket items (like painting the masts) left to deal with over the next few years and then we can relax again for some time and just deal with maintenance issues. I love it when looking forward to hundreds to being spent on the boat, instead of thousands.
Ain't yachting fun?


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Waterrat said:


> Don I think part of this thread wants to evolve into how cruisers have chosen to budget their money over the long haul.


My purpose on these threads is just to put out real numbers. The only reason I'm a member here is that before I got into boating I wanted to understand the costs. What happens after that on the thread is beyond me.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

It is commendable to have persevered.[/QUOTE]

Consider the alternative&#8230; :eek

Mark


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Still on passage food except for parmalat and bread. ~$30
$2200 for a tohatsu 9.8hp 2 stroke. Just got sick and tired of cleaning the mercury carb. Will sell it when I get home.
$300 for a Balmar digital duo charge plus 15% import plus $60 FedEx.
$20 for dinghy gas.
$200 for kicks and giggles. Happy hour, hog heaven, save rock.
$206 import fee
$400 Xmas 
>4K this month and that's not going anywhere just chilling waiting for the bride with no mooring/slip fees
Hills and valleys. Last 30d was a hill.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

About rice and beans, or gallo pinto or dal bhat or whatever you want to call it. It seems to be a cause for humor, which is good, I guess, it gives every one a chance to have a good laugh.

*Broken Stowage*
Rice and dry beans are actually a very practical expedition food, not just from a cost efficiency perspective, but from a practical scientific perspective as well. There is a concept known in provisioning as "broken stowage". Broken stowage is essentially an inefficiency in space that results from the air or void gaps between stowed items. If you think of the gaps and voids around cans or even potatoes in a bag or locker, that is broken stowage. From a space efficiency perspective, bags of dried beans and rice have very little broken stowage meaning you can carry a lot of it in a small space, efficiently.

*Weight*
For expedition provisioning weight would also be a factor some people might consider. Rice and beans are both naturally dehydrated foods, they absorb water from other sources (your water maker? a natural spring on an island?) and expand, therefor becoming a greater volume and weight of food than you left with.

*Spoilage*
Dried rice and beans will last a pretty long time without refrigeration, which means you need to dedicate fewer boat systems to refrigeration. You say, but "I'm not roughing it, I have refrigeration". Unless you have walk in freezers, at some point, you are going to need to supplement your refrigerated food with non refrigerated food. In addition to freezer capacity being a potential issue, freezer reliability is a potential issue. If you are out of range of Piggly Wiggly and part of your refrigeration system fails, whether it be the cold plate, the compressor, your generator or a fuel problem, you are going to need to eat something until you are able to get your repairs done. Canned food works, but it's full of salt and tastes like canned food.

*Waste*
Reusable bags of rice and dried beans generate no waste. Regardless of your philosophy on waste disposal, I think no waste is better than waste.

*Nutrition*
Lentils are pretty darn good for you, high in vitamins, very high in fibre and very high in folic acid.

*Easy and tasty to prepare*
My dal bhat recipe is simple and easy to prepare. Dice an onion, dice some garlic, grate some fresh ginger, table spoon of tumeric into a pan of hot oil. None of these items require refrigeration or salt to preserve them. Add two cups of lentils, 6 cups of water, simmer 25 minutes, or pre soak and use a pressure cooker for 5 minutes to conserve fuel and you have an entire weeks worth of healthy, nutritious, high fiber, salt free lunches.

So seriously, if you want to poke fun at certain posts, cool, but if you are any kind of expedition sailor, what ever hat or label you want to put on to your sailing, it's pretty hard to criticize rice and beans.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I have a Puerto Rican sister in law that would do bodily harm to anyone that bases rice and beans.  

Personally, I like them best when mixed with some grilled kielbasa sliced thin and cooked with the rice and beans. OH YEAH!

Gary


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

I love rice and beans of all sorts. One of my favorite go-to foods. If Michele is away, I'm usually living on rice and beans and pasta.

But they are the standard meme for asceticism.

Mark


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

svHyLyte said:


> Don--
> 
> We do spend more on food stores but far, far, less on prepared foods and/or dining out and so eating/food costs prove to be much less. Moreover, working together to prepare meals is an enjoyable, sometimes humorous, social time as is sharing the meals and dawdling over coffee or a glass of wine afterward.
> s/v HyLyte!


There are other benefits to eating on board. I got off the boat in the beginning of October and had an annual physical in November. My doctor said my ACL numbers were much higher than in the past. What changed? When I ended the season in October and moved back on land. I got lazy about cooking and started to eat out several times a week. I wasn't eating fast food but, the blood work numbers showed it was not as healthy as when I was on board. Dining out shore side is convenient but, may not be as healthy and certainly eats into the budget pretty quickly if done too often.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

You all realize that "rice and beans" is mostly a term right?


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

First priority - spend wisely.
Second priority - do so in the most enjoyable manner possible.
Third priority - don't be afraid to splurge (reasonably) once in awhile.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Don0190 said:


> You all realize that "rice and beans" is mostly a term right?


It's a term for food that turns into sugar that gives you diabetes that causes premature death

Yep. It's a big term.

That being said, I think many folks these days are better educated on diet than just 5 years ago when we all believed our governments dietry advice.
No matter what Coke says we know drinking it is akin to smoking.

Eating on the boat is better with _all_ diets for many reasons: we select what we eat and how to cook it. 
Few of us have a deep fryer on the boat and if we did we wouldn't use to cheap industrial oils the restaurants use, even the expensive restaurant's fry you fries in junk. But on the boat we would use olive oil, butter, coconut oil and Avacado oil (if your trés trendy).

Better freezers on boat mean we are likely to take good meat out for dinner not some can of Spam or Beef with TVP.

If you do eat the rice & beans diet most would know now that you really don't want to have much fat with it. Maybe alternate you diet week on, week off so your body has time to recover from the 'other' diet.

Diet, budget and boats are a unique combination that needs to be thought about by intelligent people. Non-thinking purchases of frozen burgers for a passage is neither budget conscious, health conscious or indeed 'broken space' conscious. The word that joins them is conscious... our brains actually kicked into gear

Last night dinner on the boat with *hot* chick was best quality food & wine for 1/3 of restaurant price... and the view for her was great: she could look at me.

irateraft:


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

All bad food can be neutralized with the proper application of alcohol !!!!!!!

so take that you food Nazis :spam


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Agree with above but still carry
Jamaican ginger beer, coke and snickers bars. Find in when it's truly bumpy and no one wants to cook let alone eat caffeine, sugar, water and ginger keeps folks going. 
When that stuff is broken out you know it's miserable out.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Don0190 said:


> You all realize that "rice and beans" is mostly a term right?


Yeah but, I still love to make some Gallos Pintos with two fried eggs on top for breakfast not because it's a cheap meal but, because it tastes so good.
As Shel here explains:


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

As any Viet Cong could tell you, one sack of rice equals one month of food for one active combat soldier. Great bargain.

But in the last 5-10 years, it has become less favored because rice (white being the worst but brown not being much better) is the kind of carbohydrate that pushes up blood sugar and leads to the massive epidemic of diabetes that we have seen with high sugar consumption. There's no "sugar" per se in rice, but all the grains are carbs and the body turs them into sugars and exacerbates the blood sugar problems, which are believe to cause stroke and heart disease, not just diabetes.

The medical research in the last ten years is indicating that while this may be great stuff to pack in your life boat, just like tinned sea biscuits, it isn't something you should be eating lots of if you can get real food instead.

Black rice, btw, isn't really a rice, it is not lumped in with them nutritionally either.

FWIW.

Now, keeping fresh greens aboard, without refrigeration or even with it, that's quite a bit harder. And sprouts don't really count as "greens".(G)


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Don, Rice and beans is NOT just a term - it's a staple in many Latin American nations that I have visited. You will find several great recipes on the internet, including this one: Red Beans and Rice Recipe : Robert Irvine : Food Network

In my case, I use Emperor's Forbidden Rice, which is coal black and very nutty tasting in my rice and beans recipe. And, as stated above, some slices of char-grilled kielbasa are stirred in with about 1/2-cup Yoshida Gourmet Sauce, which is a ginger teriyaki glaze. Oh my does that taste good!

Gary


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

We drift far on the boating forum

I think studies really suggest that it matters little what you eat. What matter more is how much you eat and whether you are overweight. Not many people living at the minimum on a rice diet are having issues with becoming diabetic.

Meanwhile you have convinced me that rice and beans are going to kill me. Next month expect to see a new line item for BEEF!


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

Don0190 said:


> Next month expect to see a new line item for BEEF!


My local publix has standing rib roast (which I cut into ribeye steaks) for $6.99/lb. and tenderloin for $10.99/lb this week. I left the store $600 lighter yesterday and will go back for more today. 

I have a big chest freezer at home and will on the boat as well.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> It's a term for food that turns into sugar that gives you diabetes that causes premature death


Last night's dinner - a big bowl of chirashi, which is a bowl of sushi rice with raw fish (grey snapper in this case) and pickled carrots and egg on top. Deathly soy sauce too, and I'm sure someone can come up with a reason wasabi is a death wish. We all know that an egg robs a year or two from you.

I'm looking forward to more of these meals giving me diabetes and causing my premature death (no doubt many others are looking forward to that too&#8230.

I think I spent more calories finding and spearing the snappers than I got back from them.

Oh, BTW, in keeping with this thread, the meal cost ~$1 in rice, carrots, egg, soy sauce and wasabi. For two.

Mark


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Don0190 said:


> I think studies really suggest that it matters little what you eat. What matter more is how much you eat and whether you are overweight. Not many people living at the minimum on a rice diet are having issues with becoming diabetic.


DING! DING! DING! Winner, winner chicken dinner!

On the other hand, studies with mice do suggest that if you completely starve yourself by living on the barest paucity of calories necessary just to keep the most basic metabolic processes active, you can gain a few years in life over average.

What a way to live!

Mark


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Yoshida's is tasty stuff. But the #2 ingredient is sugar, and the #3 ingredient is high fructose corn sugar. Making it pretty much more toxic than bottom paint, if you are trying to watch your blood sugar.

I think I'd rather do my sugar splurges on something else.


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## gonecrusin (Aug 23, 2016)

Happy to hear this month went better for you, hope they keep going that way. 

Me? I love rice and beans with chicken. Good hearty food that doesn't break the bank.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

mbianka said:


> Yeah but, I still love to make some Gallos Pintos with two fried eggs on top for breakfast not because it's a cheap meal but, because it tastes so good.
> As Shel here explains:


os

Huevos Rancheros a staple for me. Found some good chorizo in Phuket..mana from heaven..sneak a few cans of the green chilis in my bag each time back to the states.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

colemj said:


> Last night's dinner - a big bowl of chirashi, which is a bowl of sushi rice with raw fish (grey snapper in this case) and pickled carrots and egg on top. Deathly soy sauce too, and I'm sure someone can come up with a reason wasabi is a death wish. We all know that an egg robs a year or two from you.
> 
> I'm looking forward to more of these meals giving me diabetes and causing my premature death (no doubt many others are looking forward to that too&#8230.
> 
> ...


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## Waterrat (Sep 8, 2007)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> It's a term for food that turns into sugar that gives you diabetes that causes premature death
> 
> Yep. It's a big term.
> 
> ...


Did you mean to say the view for you was great and the view for her was why you live on a boat with million dollar views and serve good wine and food.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Don0190 said:


> We drift far on the boating forum
> 
> I think studies really suggest that it matters little what you eat. What matter more is how much you eat and whether you are overweight. Not many people living at the minimum on a rice diet are having issues with becoming diabetic.
> 
> Meanwhile you have convinced me that rice and beans are going to kill me. Next month expect to see a new line item for BEEF!


Careful, the further you cruise away from the mainland the more expensive beef gets. :eek There is always chicken but, in the Bahamas personally I could eat Conch three times a day.  So 17.5% of your monthly expense went to eating out. Was this in line with your projections? Hard to compare with your food category since you have included other items in there like clothes etc.... Under Food I break my budget into Groceries and Dining Out. Dining out includes everything from a quick Hot Dog to a Ruth's Chris Steak and bar drinks. Groceries includes all provisions I bring back to the boat including wine and other beverages.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

aeventyr60 said:


> I marinated a big hunk of pork butt in a can of rootbeer all afternoon, added some bbq sauce, into the pressure cooker for a half hour, pulled pork served on fresh bakery buns, cole slaw and some baked beans. Funny thing the buns cost more then the pork. Ok, so we spent about 3 bucks..


Last night's dinner was pork country ribs cooked in a pressure cooker with a mustard vinegar sauce, with carrots and pickles on the side. Didn't have fresh bread though, so saved some money there, but it was an expensive meal with pork ribs costing $2/lb or so.

Yesterday's lunch was fresh conch salad, which contained <$1 of chopped onions, tomato and peppers, but I had to dive under the boat to get the conch and the fresh water shower probably cost another $0.05 in operating the watermaker.

It's blowing stink right now, but I was just informed I'm to go out and catch something for tonight's dinner anyway. I'll probably just wimp out and get a couple of easy lobsters...

Mark


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## Waterrat (Sep 8, 2007)

colemj said:


> Last night's dinner was pork country ribs cooked in a pressure cooker with a mustard vinegar sauce, with carrots and pickles on the side. Didn't have fresh bread though, so saved some money there, but it was an expensive meal with pork ribs costing $2/lb or so.
> 
> Yesterday's lunch was fresh conch salad, which contained <$1 of chopped onions, tomato and peppers, but I had to dive under the boat to get the conch and the fresh water shower probably cost another $0.05 in operating the watermaker.
> 
> ...


The stress of catching your food ever day must be killing you. What a tough life.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I went to the store and went down an isle real quiet like and caught this fried chicken! It was one of the wild range ones that live in a box.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> The stress of catching your food ever day must be killing you. What a tough life.


It would if you had to.

:nerd


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Don0190 said:


> I went to the store and went down an isle real quiet like and caught this fried chicken! It was one of the wild range ones that live in a box.


Those are OK health-wise, but the the ones that live in the plastic disc containers are not good for you. The ones that live in the paper bags are the best.

Don't touch any of the fried chicken that live outside grocery stores, though - especially the ones that live in red and white buckets.

Mark


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

aeventyr60 said:


> os
> 
> Huevos Rancheros a staple for me. Found some good chorizo in Phuket..mana from heaven..sneak a few cans of the green chilis in my bag each time back to the states.


Chorizo can make cardboard taste good.
When traveling in Mex with friends and having breakfasts...they usually gave me their refries, as I call 'em.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

A note regarding the wild chickens....

In some places you can buy a whole cooked/asada chicken for the price of a frozen bird.
It's easy to strip it, bag to size and use when needed. Stores well.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"an egg robs a year or two from you."
Well, last year the FDA said they had been mistaken, eggs are no longer restricted in any way because the cholesterol you ingest, has nothing to do with the cholesterol in your blood. Which also may not have anything to do with arterial problems, for years now research has been saying "it may just be the stuff that accumulates under the rug", i.e. a effect, not a cause, of problems. 
There have been a lot of nutrition/dietary upsets in the last ten years, some not well known at all. 

Arcb-
SodaStream was built on the example of Gillette and Eveready. Give away the razor and sell the blades. Give away the flashlight and sell the batteries. Sell what is basically a soda syphon (used to be $20-25 in any houseware department) and then charge a bloody fortune for the gas. The same gas that costs you $20 in their fancy cylinder? Can be bought for $3 as a paintball cartridge refill. Exact same quality, exact same source, exact same food grade gas. Plenty of online sources to either build or buy an adapter to fill them, and even cheaper if you are staying in one area and rent a larger CO2 bottle from a local brewing or welding supply.

The soda syphons fell out of popularity as the 8 gram CO2 cartridges (used in bb guns) somehow went from 10c each to $1.50+ almost overnight, vaguely back in the early 80's.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

I must have blinked - where were SodaStreams discussed?

Mark


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I wonder what next month's expensive thread topics will be? I hope it's about rum!


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

Cigars!


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## Rocky Mountain Breeze (Mar 30, 2015)

I want to know if people who live their life following all the right directions will either die or enjoy life......


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Rocky Mountain Breeze said:


> I want to know if people who live their life following all the right directions will either die or enjoy life......


Both. You WILL die.

Sorry if you haven't realised it.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

hellosailor said:


> "
> Arcb-
> SodaStream was built on the example of Gillette and Eveready. Give away the razor and sell the blades. Give away the flashlight and sell the batteries. Sell what is basically a soda syphon (used to be $20-25 in any houseware department) and then charge a bloody fortune for the gas. The same gas that costs you $20 in their fancy cylinder? Can be bought for $3 as a paintball cartridge refill. Exact same quality, exact same source, exact same food grade gas. Plenty of online sources to either build or buy an adapter to fill them, and even cheaper if you are staying in one area and rent a larger CO2 bottle from a local brewing or welding supply.
> 
> The soda syphons fell out of popularity as the 8 gram CO2 cartridges (used in bb guns) somehow went from 10c each to $1.50+ almost overnight, vaguely back in the early 80's.


I just wait for 12 pack cans of Seltzer to go on sale and stock up. Often three 12 pack cartons for six bucks. Throw in a couple of flavored ones to use for a nice light Sundown Rum spritzer. Delightful! Just cycle them into the Engel as needed.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Having spent a significant part of my younger life working in Cardio-pulmonary medicine, I can assure you that animal fats and cholesterol will not plug up your arteries, and there are some very large studies that conclusively show this is the case. However, studies also revealed that the old American Heart Association Diet was dead wrong, and that consuming lots of carbs will do you in a lot faster. In fact, the reverse is true. Those people on the planet that have the highest cholesterol by far have the lowest incidence of coronary artery disease, and those that tend to consume relatively high levels of animal fats also enjoy lower incidences of coronary artery disease. This was revealed by a massive, worldwide study done by the World Health Organization. Ironically, with all the data available to the contrary, US physicians continue to push the use of statins, which have horrible side effects, some of which are deadly.

Now, lets talk about catching supper with a hook and line. Most of the died in the wool sailors I've come across in my travels have little or no fishing skills or expertise. They don't know how to tie good knots in monofilament or braided fishing line, they don't know how to read the water and find fish holding structure and the vast majority depend upon dumb luck to catch anything other than a cold. There is a lot more in learning how to fish than there is in learning how to sail. I never had a problem catching dinner while cruising, however, the vast majority of the fish I caught were at various anchorages - not while trolling. Sure, I caught fish while trolling, mostly mahi and mackerel, an occasional bluefish or striper, and on rare occasions, tuna. Now, I have been fishing since age 5, and I have fished all over the globe. Therefore, for those that have little or no fishing experience, I would suggest picking up or downloading some books on the subject, particularly books that pinpoint locations in areas where you sail, and many will pinpoint specific locations and productive methods and baits.

Good Luck,

Gary


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

The fat thing is of some interest.
You make all the cholesterol in your body. Substrate can be dietary fat, or even cholesterol. Then it's broken down and rebuilt. I've seen kids of strict vegans or health nuts have neurological impairment ( cognitive and neuropathies) from diets that are overly restrictive in the effort to be "healthy ". 
To date no dietary supplements are of any known benefit in the absence of documented deficiencies. Yes if you lack intrinsic factor getting supplemental B12 is of great value but beyond that kind of thing is no evidence that supplements help. 
Vitamins are more complex then usually thought by the general public. Some like E are really a family. In general a good balanced diet is the best way to receive vitamins and needed trace elements. Your biology is constructed to receive them in this fashion and you get the full spectrum. Too much is as bad as too little. Returning to vit E as an example.There was a study that too much actually increased incidence of lung cancer in smokers. I've seen cases of heavy metal induced neuropathy where my suspicion was it was due to "heart healthy" supplements. 
Look at your teeth. They are those of an omnivore. However your antecedents had very rare opportunity to eat meat or simple sugars. Hence you inherited a desire for both. There is evidence cooked meat and especially processed meat is carcinogenic. However, no convincing evidence modest rare intake shortens life. 
There is evidence to suggest modest increased weight( overweight not obese by current guidelines) has no impact on general health or life expectancy. There is evidence to suggest aptosis ( programmed cell death) is slowed by caloric restriction with increased life expectancy by ~1/3. Pragmatically this is hard to achieve.
All evidence points to the benefit of exercise to any degree except extreme. Average full time cruisers l've seen tend to not be morbidly obese and fairly fit.
Sailing is good for you although bad for the wallet.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Gary you may want to increase your reading. Physicians now understand the benefits of statins have much to do with things unrelated to cholesterol. Read some on platelets and endothelial effects as well as A host of others. 
Bet you I've seen more statin induced myopathy in any given year of practice then you in your lifetime. Agree they are probably overprescribed and not enough attention is paid to the differences between them. Still, would note there is some good science here. Enough that I take one.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

And Gary when at autopsy you dissect and analyze plaque between the intima and media you find cholesterol. There's a big difference in thinking here between you and me. No serious student of this subject thinks diet has no influence. Discussion revolves around which substrates are most important and in what settings.
You make the cholesterol in your body. Atherogenesis is a very complex process. Diet has an influence as does genetics, lifestyle,inflammatory state and intercurrent disease. There is a lot of science showing a high meat, high calorie, high starch, high sugar diet in combination with little exercise ain't a good thing. To argue otherwise is like denying evolution, climate change and to believe in a flat earth.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

outbound said:


> Average full time cruisers l've seen tend to not be morbidly obese and fairly fit.
> Sailing is good for you although bad for the wallet.


So, we should all become morbidly obese so we can die before the money runs out???


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Too funny. Sounds like a plan. Hassle is when I get above budget don't have the money for restaurants, booze, and sweets. Oh wel.....


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## Rocky Mountain Breeze (Mar 30, 2015)

It is not good when things are presented in an either/or format. I eat meat, pork, beef, and chicken, fried, grilled, smoked, and roasted. We also eat fresh vegetables like peas, carrots, broccoli, potatoes, tomatoes, and lettuce with the mentioned meats. We eat modest to small portions compared to the modern restaurant offerings and my work is very physically demanding. At 62+ years of age I take no medication other than a daily multivitamin and quit having my cholesterol checked years ago. My blood pressure runs from what they consider normal to just above normal depending on the day. I believe moderation is the key to a long happy healthy life and not drugs or a strict diet of nuts and berries. I love nuts and berries, especially on ice cream...... 

Just because someone does not believe that eating a bacon and egg sandwich for breakfast will kill them early it does not mean that they do not practice a healthy lifestyle. Live your life the way you want but save your advice until you are asked. Do not make the mistake of thinking that your choices or the current popular medical advice is the only way to live healthy. I grew up around too many healthy 70+ year old farmers who ate a meat, vegetable, and egg diet (that they produced themselves) to believe the hysteria surrounding the medical advice passed around the last 50 years....

I will agree that if you are an active sailor you are probably in better health than most barflies or vegans.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

So we said no the galley last night. 4 750 Ml Singa Beers and 8 different Thai dishes set us back a whopping 18 bucks...Merry Christmas in de Islands Mon..


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Now, I'm a real serious student of cardiovascular disease, I spent 15 years in the OR with my hands in someone's chest, and trained at NIH. One of the very first things I noticed was that more than half my patients had low or normal cholesterol levels, yet they had loads of plaque inside their coronary arteries. I knew there had to be some other determining factors that were not being looked at. I spent many years going through the various studies that were either inconclusive, or didn't reveal what the drug companies were claiming. Turns out that the only nation of physicians that makes the great cholesterol claims is the US. Gee, I wonder why that is? 

In the last few years I worked in cardio-vascular medicine, I worked with some of the top thoracic surgeons in the nation, most of which whom were also researchers as well. Most of what we worked on back then were improvements in surgical techniques, but there were a few studies that involved Atherogenesis as well and from the initial findings it appeared that the likely culprit was a combination of factors, the most dominant being some type of viral activity that attacked the artery's inner wall, causing massive inflammation. And, in most instances, it was not limited to the coronary arteries, but also included the carotid and femoral arteries, particularly near bifurcations.

Outbound, the one thing I do agree with you on is the high sugar, high carb dietary, no exercise exstremes that we see here in the US are largely responsible for most cardiovascular and orthopedic problems in the US. I see it in my grandson, who spends much of his waking hours with a touch screen in his face and wearing headphones, all the while sitting in a chair.

I also noticed that the younger generation does not cook. In fact, I seriously doubt that most of them know how to turn on the stove, let alone prepare a meal of any kind. For the vast majority of the me now generation is appears that if their food did not come through a drive-thru window they would starve to death. 

Gary


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

travlin-easy said:


> I also noticed that the younger generation does not cook. In fact, I seriously doubt that most of them know how to turn on the stove, let alone prepare a meal of any kind. For the vast majority of the me now generation is appears that if their food did not come through a drive-thru window they would starve to death.
> 
> Gary


I don't think this has been any different over the preceding many decades - it is just a fact of youth. Cooking for me in college consisted of the microwave and hot dogs/raman at best, and usually a drive-through or take out.

Things changed quickly after that for most - and I don't expect it to be different for this younger generation.

Mark


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Gary
I was the coordinator for the stroke guidelines for Massachusetts Hospital Association. I will say again your statements are simplistic not even accounting for subdivisions in cholesterol nor lipid profiles. The issue is plaque formation and atherogenesis. This is a very complex subject and this is the wrong forum to discuss it. I'm sure you wish your HDL was a bit higher and I'm sure your happy your anticardiolipins, Leiden factor V don't place you at risk. Hope you have not inherited any genetic causes for hyperlipidemia. 
Let's return to the subject at hand. It's interesting to this audience. We can review the literature in another setting and discuss inflammation, plt. and endothelial function and such elsewhere. 

Would note cold cereal sales are way down and have been for some time. It's not just turning on the stove that's falling. BTW my kids ( in their 30s now) love to cook.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Mark, I guess youth is somewhat relative, especially considering that when I first joined the US Navy in 1957, drive-ins didn't exist. Hamburgers came from places like the White Tower, where they were about 12 for $1, they were the size of a silver dollar, and pretty darned tasty if I recall correctly. In my part of the world, drive-ins arrived sometimes in the early 1960s, and we had young girls that brought your order in a tray while on roller skates. 

When I attended college, I lived just 20 minutes from the university, therefore, I was able drive home, wolf down a quick lunch, and still make it to the next class on time. Things went downhill after that, though. When I was working at the University of Maryland Hospital, the hours were horrendous, I usually only got to eat once or twice a day, and it was always something quick, and nasty tasting from a vending machine. Same held true when I went to work at The Johns Hopkins Hospital. When I walked away from a relatively long career in medicine, my weight was down to 145 pounds and although I was very active, I always felt tired. Of course, sleep depredation may have had some bearing on this. 

The younger generation I was referring to is the 25 to 35-year olds. Most of the folks my age, 76, learned to cook from our mothers and grandmothers when we were just 10 to 12 years of age. My kids were taught by my wife and mother and both of them are excellent cooks. My son would not eat at a fast food restaurant if you paid him to do so, and my daughter only grabs the salad at Mc Donalds when she's running late for an event or appointment. My grandson, though, thinks Panera Bread is a 5-star restaurant. Go figure.

Ironically, Mark, the Ramin Noodles were likely worse for your health than the hotdogs. 

All the best,

Gary


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

travlin-easy said:


> Mark, I guess youth is somewhat relative, especially considering that when I first joined the US Navy in 1957, drive-ins didn't exist. Hamburgers came from places like the White Tower, where they were about 12 for $1, they were the size of a silver dollar, and pretty darned tasty if I recall correctly. In my part of the world, drive-ins arrived sometimes in the early 1960s, and we had young girls that brought your order in a tray while on roller skates.


Well, I did say many decades - not many epochs&#8230; 

Mark


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Yeah, I freely admit it - I'M AN OLD FART! 

All the best,

Gary


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Personally I fart dust but that's ok as long as we can sail.
Merry Christmas to one and all


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

outbound said:


> Personally I fart dust but that's ok as long as we can sail.
> Merry Christmas to one and all


Damn that sounds bad and makes me sorry for you (except the sailing big part)!


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Don, will you hurry up with month 4 so we can take it to a fresher off-topic? We are getting bored with month 3's off-topic already. 

Try to do better next month so that the off-topics last the whole month without going stale...

Mark


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

colemj said:


> Don, will you hurry up with month 4 so we can take it to a fresher off-topic? We are getting bored with month 3's off-topic already.
> 
> Try to do better next month so that the off-topics last the whole month without going stale...
> 
> Mark


I'll try, hope to be in Bahamas next month.

Meanwhile I've been eating out at fast food places that aren't up in the Northeast, aren't I adventous?


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