# Icw



## njsail (Oct 1, 2012)

I'm somewhat new to the forum but not sailing. I imagine this question has come up many times but the more i look into it the more different answers i get.

I have a 45 foot 6 ft draft sailboat and want to travel from NY to Fl mostly on the ICW in the fall. We are willing to pop in and out for fun or to bypass obstacles the make the trip doable, but only for day trips we want to be safely anchored at night out inside. I have read, or heard so many conflicting accounts that it is hard to get a handle on this.....Magazines like Sail sound like you need to be careful about traversing some shoals but you'll make it......some sailors say many parts are as little as 3ft deep and you will have to be towed frequently or it just can't be done with a 6ft draft.

Any knowledgeable hep, or advice would be greatly appreciated

Also we have a 63' ft air draft so i think we are ok there...willing to go slow wait for tides or weather as needed....we just want to do it and get there safely with as little stress as possible.


Thanks Much


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Definitely check ahead for abnormally high water as to clearance on your air draft. Current runs very fast under some of the bridges and could create a situation where it's too late to change your mind. It's probably best to time some of the bridge passages at slack low water or near it. If you pay close attention to your position in the channel, you should have no problem at all with 6' draft. Check for any problem spots ahead of time AC, Skipper Bob, and such. Many of the scary reported shallow reports, I believe are mistaken and are the result of people being out of the channel and not knowing it. There are spots where you need to keep to one side or the other but these are well reported and available. *Trust the buoys* because they often get moved by the USCG in iffy spots and may not coincide exactly with charts.


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## catlady (Oct 27, 2011)

There are a few spots that have less than 6 feet of depth at low tide, but most of these spots have a large tidal range, so time your transits for mid-tide rising. Have a great trip...happy cruising!
Mike
s/v Cat Lady
Mike Ahart, News Editor, Waterway Guide


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## njsail (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks very much...i felt like your advice seemed right...


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

catlady said:


> There are a few spots that have less than 6 feet of depth at low tide, but most of these spots have a large tidal range, so time your transits for mid-tide rising. Have a great trip...happy cruising!


As you would expect, Mike is spot on. 63' air draft and 6' draft is fine all the way down. Use the Waterway Guide, the Mark and Diana Doyle's Guides, or Kettlewell for guidance. As noted, trust the marks you see over the paper or chartplotter.

I recommend you sit down each night after dinner and plan the next day. Look for shallow areas that may require timing the tide. Check for bridges and the timing those may require (63' is fine - it's the openings you have to time).

If you are just dawdling along it is all really easy. If you want to get South, or make particular events, get everything together for breakfast and lunch before you go to bed. Anchor up and move at first light and eat underway. An extra two or three hours each day adds up. Plan fuel consumption - if you have a small fuel capacity carry extra fuel in jugs. Stopping for fuel really hurts progress. Try for fuel stops every three days - it's going to cost you between one and three hours for each stop. That is a big deal.

Have a great time.


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

I would add checking Cruisersnet.net as one of your guides. Good info and updates on conditions there. Sounds like a fun trip you're planning - hope you post pics and stories along the way.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

SVAuspicious said:


> As you would expect, Mike is spot on. 63' air draft and 6' draft is fine all the way down. Use the Waterway Guide, the Mark and Diana Doyle's Guides, or Kettlewell for guidance. As noted, trust the marks you see over the paper or chartplotter.
> 
> I recommend you sit down each night after dinner and plan the next day. Look for shallow areas that may require timing the tide. Check for bridges and the timing those may require (63' is fine - it's the openings you have to time).
> 
> ...


Good post. 
However, there are indeed places where the daymarks remain clearly in error as the natural channels have moved away from the daymarks. You can find these areas listed in 'Active Captain' even that many of the 'reports' are from those who clearly were 'out of the channel'. 
Air gap and deep draft issues can be solved by careful daily planning coincident with the tides (and currents), be aware of 'wind tides' anywhere near the (non-tidal) Albemarle and Pamlico Sounds in NC. 
Current 'problem areas' on the ICW are and have been for some time: near Isle of Palms SC, Amelia River FL, Cumberland River (R60 etc.) GA, Jekyll Creek GA, McClellanville SC., Fields Cut SC, Elliot Cut SC (timing of current), HellGate, SC.. .... and of course the ICW channels near and across many of the secondary 'inlets' from the ocean although recent dredging has improved these constant problem areas, especially in NC.

For a first time transit of the ICW, Id strongly recommend that you obtain "unlimited towing insurance", _just in case_.

One of the best 'guides' Ive found for the ICW is a spiral bound book of paper strip-charts (published by the 'Waterway Guide' ???).

Suggestion - take your time, dont rush, carefully plan to 'ride the high tide' across the problem areas especially, watch for the fantastic wildlife along the banks, ..... do take the time to enjoy and meet with the wonderful and genuinely friendly 'down home' folks who live along the waterway in VA/NC/SC/GA.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Beaufort Inlet to Masonboro Inlet - a long day, but it keeps you out of Bogue Sound where it's easy to go aground. Might want to anchor at Cape Lookout.

St Simons Sound to St Andrews Sound - avoid Jekyll Island. Depending on the time you go out, could make St Marys Inlet.

Mostly from Charleston south to St Augustine, there's a number of places to go outside for the day and come back in. Then from Fort Pierce south.

Do get unlimited tow insurance. Use it once and it's paid for itself, usually for the next few years.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

RichH said:


> Good post.


Thanks.

You are correct about daymarks. Both ActiveCaptain and SSECN (cruisersnet.net) provide good current local information. Strongly agree. I use both as part of my after dinner planning for the next day.



RichH said:


> Air gap and deep draft issues can be solved by careful daily planning coincident with the tides (and currents), be aware of 'wind tides' anywhere near the (non-tidal) Albemarle and Pamlico Sounds in NC.


Agreed. Currents are an issue also and reverse often near inlets - watch for current at marks and flotsam.

Mark and Diana Doyle show measured depth information on their website from their travels, correct for MLW (MLLW? don't remember). Very helpful around trouble spots.



RichH said:


> For a first time transit of the ICW, Id strongly recommend that you obtain "unlimited towing insurance", _just in case_.


The best deal on the water. Get unlimited tow insurance.



RichH said:


> One of the best 'guides' Ive found for the ICW is a spiral bound book of paper strip-charts (published by the 'Waterway Guide' ???).


I think the strip charts are Kettlewell's guide. Kettlewell, Doyle, and Waterway are all good. A lot depends on which looks best to you and is easiest for you to use. Horses for courses.


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## njsail (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks, everyone....i have most of those guides already, tow insurance, active captain, and believed that being smart, careful, and slow and willing to wait for tides, weather and generally not be in a rush was supposed to work....i have recently had motor boaters telling me they ran aground in 3ft and it was not doable in my boat


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

SVAuspicious said:


> As you would expect, Mike is spot on. 63' air draft and 6' draft is fine all the way down. Use the Waterway Guide, the Mark and Diana Doyle's Guides, or Kettlewell for guidance. As noted, trust the marks you see over the paper or chartplotter.
> 
> I recommend you sit down each night after dinner and plan the next day. Look for shallow areas that may require timing the tide. Check for bridges and the timing those may require (63' is fine - it's the openings you have to time).
> 
> ...


No problem with 63' until you hit the Julia Tuttle Causeway in Miami.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

njsail said:


> Thanks, everyone....i have most of those guides already, tow insurance, active captain, and believed that being smart, careful, and slow and willing to wait for tides, weather and generally not be in a rush was supposed to work....i have recently had motor boaters telling me they ran aground in 3ft and it was not doable in my boat


If they were in 3' of water, they weren't in the channel. I've been in the ditch the last two years and the shallowest water I found was around 7.5 ft. The depth seems to average around 11'. You'll hit some 8-9 ft spots but really not many. I find that the trick is to watch the depth sounder carefully and move back and forth to judge where the centerline is. It's hard to judge if you're centered by just eyeballing the markers. Sometimes the line with the deepest water is quite narrow. In some sections the pilings seem to be offset from the deepest water much more than in others. Binoculars are a big help in keeping track of the markers. I record time and current conditions on a printed chart periodically for future reference as well. There does not seem to be any printed current info. so knowing what the current was doing at a specific point in time can be of help on the next time through. Stretches that wind around inlets like Matanzas are really difficult to predict current.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

njsail said:


> i have recently had motor boaters telling me they ran aground in 3ft and it was not doable in my boat


Well, as always, consider the source... 

Your draft won't pose much of a problem. Sure, there might be some spots you might have to wait (just N of the Ben Sawyer Bridge above Charleston will be impassable at anything less than half tide right now, for example) But in general, the real trouble spots all lie in areas I'd suggest doing outside anyway, if the weather cooperates...

I find a close air draft far more nerve-wracking. Are you absolutely sure of your mast height to above your instruments? Most Windexes are slightly higher than your tricolor and masthead wind instruments, if yours is not, I'd recommend fitting it with a bird spike, to serve as a 'feeler gauge'... Then, if you feel you're gonna be close, approach the bridge _backwards_, ready to bug out of there if the Windex makes contact. They're far cheaper to replace than the other stuff up there, of course 










The lowest 65' bridge is generally acknowledged to be the one at Wilkerson Creek at the W end of the Alligator-Pungo canal. No real tide in there, so the level is difficult to predict, you just have to show up and take your chances, or be in communication with boats ahead of you. If the water is high, you can get around it by going the Pamlico Sound route, though you'll be dealing with some skinny water N of Manteo, but you'll make it thru... Otherwise, the greatest likelihood of clearance issues will be anywhere thru Florida, during the course of a strong onshore blow, the water levels can really rise and stay there for days in the event of a good northeaster, maybe coupled with a spring tide...

If you're not willing to do any overnights, your options for jumping outside will be somewhat limited. As PBzeer mentioned, the hop from Beaufort Inlet down to Masonboro can be a beautiful sail, but difficult to complete in daylight hours in the fall without leaving Beaufort before sunrise. Leaving from Morehead City in the dark is an easier proposition, if you're leaving from Beaufort instead, I'd suggest scouting out the channel in daylight beforehand...

If you're gonna enjoy running the Ditch in a slow boat, one of the most important things to learn is how to be passed by faster boats... Not everyone will do so politely, but you really make it far easier and quicker for both parties if you slow to idle speed while being passed... You'll sort it out quickly enough, but folks who insist on plowing along at hull speed when being overtaken are only gonna make life miserable for themselves in the long run...

If you're thinking about making some outside runs, I highly recommend Steve Dodge's guide to the major East coast inlets:










Here's a piece that ran in CW years ago, with the focus being on attempting to maximize the amount of sailing to be done on the trip... Some of it is now outdated - forget about the suggestion of doing Oregon Inlet, for example...

Sailing the Intracoastal Waterway | Cruising World

There have also been scores of threads here on the ICW, might be worth some time seeing if you can find them...

Enjoy, it's a wonderful trip, but don't feel like you have to do every bit of it inside...


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Something else to add, once south of Fort Pierce, most of the opening bridges run on a schedule. (One of the reasons I generally overnight from Fort Pierce to Miami)

Also, once you get to Charleston, you don't have to go far out to go offshore.

Dismal Swamp Route is more scenic, and less powerboats than the Virginia Cut, but it does have 2 locks rather than the one lock on the Cut. And an opening bridge at Elizabeth City that is closed during rush hour. 

The cut over to the Cape Fear River can be tricky, so be sure to check Active Captain or cruisers.net (or both) the night before. Also, the popular anchorage north of Myrtle Beach might not suit you, especially if more than half full.

Osprey Marina, south of Myrtle Beach is a tight fit for a large sailboat.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

I know a 63 foot airdraft will get you in trouble from Atlantic City to Cape May. I do not know about the other bridges.. but the Atlantic City expressway bridge only has 35 feet of clearance and the 34th street Bridge behind Ocean City is about the same... but generally you want to avoid that section of the ICW anyway.. it's pretty treacherous. best to pop out at Absecon Inlet and come back in at Cold Spring (cape may)


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

mad_machine said:


> I know a 63 foot airdraft will get you in trouble from Atlantic City to Cape May. I do not know about the other bridges.. but the Atlantic City expressway bridge only has 35 feet of clearance and the 34th street Bridge behind Ocean City is about the same... but generally you want to avoid that section of the ICW anyway.. it's pretty treacherous. best to pop out at Absecon Inlet and come back in at Cold Spring (cape may)


63' air draft will get you into trouble between Manasquan and Atlantic City, as well... I'm pretty sure the OP is not thinking about the NJ ICW...


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Bypass NJ and GA and you shouldn't have any trouble at all. That photo of John Eisberg's boat is one that I remember well. I got through that area, but I only draw 4 feet. There were three boats aground in the middle of the channel, one of which was a motor yacht, and I churned a a lot of mud in that area. John was just 30 minutes behind me on that trip.

Gary


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

PBzeer said:


> Dismal Swamp Route is more scenic, and less powerboats than the Virginia Cut, but it does have 2 locks rather than the one lock on the Cut..


as pretty as Dismal Swamp is.. I think the canal is only 6 feet deep.. and their are logs on the bottom at that depth?


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## saillife (Jun 25, 2006)

Georgia was the worst by far when we did the trip two years ago. Tides there are extreme, 5'+ and there are places where you'll need to go through on rising tide. Going outside in Florida to avoid the draw bridges is not a bad idea and most of it can be done as day trips. The first skinny water that I recall was just north of Charleston SC the last mile or so to Ben Sawyer bridge.

If / when we do the trip again I'll be outside as much as possible around Georgia and Florida.


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

45' boat? and u want to run the ditch.
Why lord, WHY?
somebody end my torment.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

saillife said:


> If / when we do the trip again I'll be outside as much as possible around Georgia and Florida.


Well on that note, it's about five days outside from Norfolk to Ft Lauderdale. If Florida is just a waypoint to the Bahamas Norfolk to Marsh Harbour is even faster.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

There's much good advice above and I have little to add. 

I will point out that there are two locations on the ICW where I consider it prudent to make a securitee call in order to inquire about any head on meeting of large commercial traffic. 

It is not possible to see all the way around the approaches of the short Elliott Cut south of Charleston and if you're running with the strong current, you will be lacking some maneuverability. I make a securitee call just south of the Whapoo Creek Bridge when southbound and while I'm still in the Stono River when northbound. I simply state my position and that I am concerned about any (northbound,- southbound) commercial traffic,- asking any approaching tug/barge traffic to respond on ch 16.

The other spot is at "The Rockpile" at North Myrtle Beach where dangerous rocks are just outside the center channel and often just inches below the water. Here again, I make a securitee call inquiring about any large commercial traffic. I would much rather wait for them to pass before entering the narrow section that spans about two miles.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Another good source of local knowledge is a call to the closest US Boat tow boat crew. They gladly offer advice on spots to watch out for in their watch area. Going outside is my choice of options, even at 5.5' draft. An offshore run from Beaufort to Charleston and then Charleston to St. Mary's is the way I go, weather permitting.


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## riburton (Mar 2, 2000)

I'm read the posts here and what these guys are saying is all true, theoretically. Sure you plan everything the night before, have it all laid out, mark the trouble spots, plan the tides, study Active Captain. The one most important point they made: Get unlimited tow insurance, you'll need it. No matter how much you plan, if you have not done this before and learned first hand there will be spots where you will get confused. The water is running fast on an outgoing tide, a day mark does not look right or a buoy seems out of place, sometimes you can't see a green because it is a long way away and blends in with the background trees. You might have a barge coming toward you obstructing your view, a huge power boat is overtaking you throwing a huge wake, sometimes they slow down, sometimes they don't. You're in a area that seems safe with lots of water on either side, according to your chart and plotter so you get on the magenta line. All of a sudden where it says it is 12' your shallow water alarm goes off. Which way do you go? So yes you can make it but you will have a lot of experience with the unforeseen. Just be prepared and make sure your insurance is up to date One last point. If you have only used your boat for daysails and you have only run your engine for short periods at low rpms while getting away from the dock and getting out to the sailing area, be prepared for breakdowns. Your going to be running that engine for 8 to 10 hours a day and sometimes very hard. If you run aground (not saying you will if you do everything right) you will really push it before you give up and call TowBoat or SeaTow. Have lots of spare parts, all your tools and a good savings account. But you can make it.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

CaptainForce said:


> There's much good advice above and I have little to add.
> 
> I will point out that there are two locations on the ICW where I consider it prudent to make a securitee call in order to inquire about any head on meeting of large commercial traffic.
> 
> ...


One should also consider to make a sécurité call at the south end of Fields Cut where the ICW crosses the Savannah River. This 'intersection' is notorious for having most ALL of the water sucked out of the south end of Fields Cut due to the suction wake of the large container ships coming and going to Savannah, GA. Quite a few ICW boats every year are momentarily left high and dry and over on their sides only to be 'washed' by the return stern wake. The typical 'suck out' is 3-4ft (and the east side of the ICW channel there is only 6 ft anyway). When crossing this area or in the 'south end of the cut' be sure to dual monitor Channels 13/16 for the sécurité calls from the large commercials; and, do consider to issue one yourself and/or reply to their sécurité calls ... they will slow down to 'dead slow' if they hear YOUR secruite call.


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## CapnBones (Sep 20, 2010)

I have to agree with what has been said so far. A couple things to add:

1. A good plan that I adopted on my boat for shallow water is to set the alarm, a foot or two above where you are aground. Whenever it goes off kill the throttle and drop the boat in to neutral. This way if you do run aground you are not going full bore and usually can back right off (it works). I have unlimited towing, but the less I have to use it, the better.

2. Local knowledge is awesome as has been stated. Call the local TowBoatUS or SeaTow and ask about inlets, especially smaller ones that tend to shift more.

3. I like to avoid Georgia. We left out of Charleston SC and went into the St. John River in Florida the next morning. It was much quicker and less stressful than going through Georgia. I am sure you could break it up to two day trips if you planned well.

4. Make the most of your time, be up before the sun and moving if you can. You are coming in to your anchorage in daylight so make a mental note or GPS course so you can maybe leave the next morning in the dark before sunrise and make the most of your sailing time. Note what bridges you need to make it to and their scheduled openings, plan around that.

5. Just don't be in a hurry and have fun! There are some really nice towns along the way, stop and enjoy them and meet new people. We made friends in Great Bridge Virginia with a couple other boats and we would meet up every few days in another town and all have dinner. The guy that crewed for me that trip has sailed with them a bunch of times since.


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

Had to stop in and mention this, For basic traffic information and calls you just need to make a normal call of your name, location, intentions, and a request for all nearby concerned traffic. It's not a security call in any way, different reason for using security. Just so everyone reading this knows, that radio designation is for safe of navigation and important weather warnings. For instance, you have a diver down in the water and/or you are unable to motor, you would make a security call. Coming up to an intersection or safety separation scheme, you would NOT make a security call but instead make a regular traffic call. 

From a professional mariner, just don't want anyone 1 sending out confusing radio calls and 2 sounding like a yuppie who hasn't read up on marine radio communications. 

Other than that, I'm learning a lot of the East Coast ICW, sounds squirrelly! 

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## okawbow (Feb 15, 2007)

Having done some of the ICW and most of the east coast outside; I much prefer the outside. Even in our 31' Cheoy Lee ketch; going outside was easy and enjoyable with the right weather windows. Planning and preparation is the key. You can always duck in and wait out dangerous weather conditions. 

Take on some experienced crew and go for it!


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

There is some great info in this thread. There is no doubt that sailing the ICW is very interesting although it does take a lot of planning and can be stressful at times. Going offshore, of course, eliminates sightseeing although having Dolphins playing in your wake for miles with sails full of wind has its merits. There are even many stretches of the ICW to actually sail. 
Various cruising guides all have unique information and it's good to have as many as possible during the planning and within arm's reach when you're underway.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

My preference is to have the towing insurance and I've used it. Once I was towed about five miles after an oil cooler failure. Fortunately it was the water side that opened and not the oil side. Another time my Raycor was slowly sucking air and left me suddenly without power in a narrow stretch with rock nearby. I have been aground many times over the more than fifty years that I've been boating, but I've never had a tow from a grounding and I would not accept a tow from a grounding unless my boat was in danger from rock, coral or pounding in waves. All my groundings have been in sand or mud and my choice is always to wait for the tide if I can not increase my heel, use the wind or kedge off. I woud rather sit aground for a few hours than stress my vessel by pulling it over a shoal. We've set at an angle in some exotic places. Sometimes it's best to take a swim, read a book, scrub the waterline ot take a hike ashore.


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## NautiG (Apr 23, 2007)

I had been thinking about starting my own icw thread, but saw this one. We are relocating from VA to FL and I'll be taking the boat down the icw this fall. I did the icw about 7 years ago. My question is what has changed since then? 

I've heard there are now mooring fields in Beaufort SC and St Aug.

Last time I relied heavily on my laptop with a verizon aircard for internet. This time, I think I'll mainly be using my phone and perhaps a tablet computer. This should help to cut down on my already minimal power needs. I don't know that I'll even need to run an inverter on this trip.

I used the cruiser's net website for planning last time. I'll probably rely on them again, although I hear a lot of people use active captain too.

Any other changes you think I'll experience from the trip 7 years ago? I'll probably do the VA cut, then outside as much as possible south of Beaufort NC.

Thanks, Scott
Gemini Catamaran Split Decision


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## courish (Sep 16, 2010)

I brought my boat from Charleston, SC to Halifax, NS two weeks ago. Went outside up to Beaufort and then inside and up through the Virginia Cut and out at Norfolk. My boat draws 5'. Had no problems at all. Depth was fine providing you pay attention as mentioned earlier.


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## CapnChuck (Apr 4, 2013)

We've done 20+ transits of the ICW most with a 6 foot draft, and looking through this thread, you probably have all the information you will need. The Dismal Swamp depths on our last trip were 8 feet and unless there is a major shortage of rain, which hasn't happened, that should still be the depths. In case there might be something that will help, here is a blog posting we did on transiting the ICW, The Trawler Beach House: Navigating The Atlantic Intracoastal Waterway , and another we did on the Georgia section of the ICW that might help with any concerns, The Trawler Beach House: Should You Avoid The Georgia ICW? . Many of our transits are posted and accessed by clicking on the Intracoastal Waterway Category on the left column. I would be happy to answer any specific questions. Chuck


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

NautiG said:


> I had been thinking about starting my own icw thread, but saw this one. We are relocating from VA to FL and I'll be taking the boat down the icw this fall. I did the icw about 7 years ago. My question is what has changed since then?


Very little of real significance has changed, seems to me...

Other than the increasingly widespread belief that it's impossible to make the trip without a hermetically-sealed cockpit enclosure, that is... 










Most folks still doing the Forced March Under Power, even when given opportunities where they could be sailing... They've made a reservation at the next marina, gotta keep up the pace... 

Understandable, of course, given how greatly whatever sailing performance most boats running the Ditch might have previously possessed, has been degraded by the piling on of all the crap deemed 'essential' for kroozing today...












NautiG said:


> Any other changes you think I'll experience from the trip 7 years ago? I'll probably do the VA cut, then outside as much as possible south of Beaufort NC.
> 
> Thanks, Scott
> Gemini Catamaran Split Decision


A couple of changes to entrances/inlets worthy of note.

The course of the ship channel into the Cape Fear River has been altered considerably south of Bald Head Island... You can still head straight out like in the old days, but it will place you in some shallower water than you might be expecting...

The entrance at St Augustine now has a significant dogleg favoring the N side. For years, that channel was a pretty straight shot in, but no more. You definitely want to make sure you pick up the next buoy before proceeding, and in my opinion this inlet has degraded a bit... Still OK in settled weather, but with any sort of sea running on the ebb, it can turn into a real mess, a bit more quickly than in the past...


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## mgmhead (Jan 14, 2007)

JonEisberg said:


> Very little of real significance has changed, seems to me...
> 
> Other than the increasingly widespread belief that it's impossible to make the trip without a hermetically-sealed cockpit enclosure, that is...
> 
> ...


Good info on the inlets, also note that Shallotte Inlet and Lockwoods Folley Inlet have been dredged as of April 2014. BTW, that's my hermetically sealed cockpit and I assure you I've made the trip south with and without the surround. Ha, I'd much rather be in my t-shirt that foulies.

Safe travels all.


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## NautiG (Apr 23, 2007)

I wasn't too impressed with the St. Aug inlet 7 years ago, but it did teach me to check the tides and weather conditions carefully before running an unknown inlet. I am going to try some of the outside hops that PBeez mentions. I'll most likely be single handing and trying to make short hops outside between fronts.

Are there still a lot of derelict boats clogging up anchorages down south? I remember Beaufort NC and Salt Run in St Aug being particularly bad.

Scott 
Gemini Catamaran Split Decision


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

NautiG said:


> ......................
> Are there still a lot of derelict boats clogging up anchorages down south? I remember Beaufort NC and Salt Run in St Aug being particularly bad.
> 
> Scott
> Gemini Catamaran Split Decision


I haven't stopped in Beaufort, NC in a few years, but the mooring field in St. Augustine has resulted in clearing out all the derelicts that made the place so crowded and a risky mess in the past.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

mgmhead said:


> Good info on the inlets, also note that Shallotte Inlet and Lockwoods Folley Inlet have been dredged as of April 2014. BTW, that's my hermetically sealed cockpit and I assure you I've made the trip south with and without the surround. Ha, I'd much rather be in my t-shirt that foulies.
> 
> Safe travels all.


Well, I can't imagine what would possess anyone to choose to run either Shallotte or Lockwoods Folly in a cruising sailboat... Or, do you just mean the ICW channel that passes behind them?

I figured it would just be a matter of time before the owner of that Catalina surfaced  Hope you enjoyed your stay in McClellanville, and made it up to TW Graham's for dinner?

To each his own, that's what makes the world go 'round... I suppose if ever there was a winter where a cockpit enclosure might have come in handy even down south, this was the one... 

Sorry, I know most folks love their enclosures... I've just yet to find one on an aft cockpit boat that I could tolerate, particularly for sailing or running at night... Probably just me... 

Funny you should mention Lockwoods Folly, and t-shirts vs foulies... The pic below was taken off Lockwoods Folly the day day before I saw your boat in McClellanville...

The owner huddled behind the dodger was with me on this trip, a strong cold front had passed thru the night before. We'd awakened that morning in Wrightsville to a deck coated with snow and freezing rain, pretty unusual for that time of November. But there are few finer sails along the coast than the one between Southport and Little River, behind the passage of a front... It was just a spectacular 35 miles of sailing, close reaching in flat water, with one foot on the beach...

But the owner is a restauranteur from Vail, CO (no stranger to cool weather, fortunately), so we were stopping every night for fine dinners ashore, so we went back in at Little River, and that night we wound up at Ruth's Chris in Myrtle Beach... Truth be told, I think the meal at Graham's in McClellanville was the better one


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

John, I absolutely love my hermetically sealed cockpit enclosure. When it was just 42 degrees outside near the mouth of Chesapeake Bay last spring, it was 75 degrees inside my bubble. I was sailing along in shirt sleeves, sipping a cold Margaretta and watching the other guys wearing foulies and shivering out there battling the elements. It only takes about three minutes to put it in place, and if it gets too hot I can remove a single panel and sail in comfort. I sailed from Norfolk to Windmill Point that day, never got cold, or even uncomfortable. That evening, I dropped anchor in the Rappahannock River, spent a quiet night, and the next day, the temperature never made it to 45 degrees. The wind was woofing along at about 20 MPH, and I managed to make Smith Creek near the mouth of the Potomac, again in complete comfort. The only time the engine was fired up on that leg was when I motored to Smith Creek Marina and gassed up for the final leg to Perryville.

Hope to meet up with you during next fall's trip south.

All the best,

Gary


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Just for reference, here's a list of the overnight hops I take.

Little River to Charleston. (Day trip outside to Port Royal Sound)
Port Royal (north end of Hilton Head Island) to St Augustine.
St Augustine to Fort Pierce.
Fort Pierce to Miami (come in at Cape Florida)

I do these all between the Gulf Stream and shore, usually only a mile or two out.

To me, Little River to Charleston inside has the prettiest and ugliest stretches of the ICW, so it's a tossup whether I go outside or inside.


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## mgmhead (Jan 14, 2007)

JonEisberg, of course you're correct... I meant the ICW at those inlets have been dredged. While I'll do selected inlets I certainly don't do most, including Lockwood Folley and Shallotte. 

Agreed to each his own, if the Vail restaurateur is accustomed to wet and cold he's welcome to it. Just count me in the travelineasy group.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

travlineasy said:


> John, I absolutely love my hermetically sealed cockpit enclosure. When it was just 42 degrees outside near the mouth of Chesapeake Bay last spring, it was 75 degrees inside my bubble. I was sailing along in shirt sleeves, sipping a cold Margaretta and watching the other guys wearing foulies and shivering out there battling the elements.


I'm sure you do, Gary, as does most everyone who has them... There's no 'winning' any argument against them, of course, they're just not for me. I'm hopelessly Old School, I simply prefer to be able to see where I'm going  Not being able to see over the top of, or around a dodger with ease, or being able to maintain the 360 degree visibility/situational awareness that an enclosure can so easily impede, that's a deal-breaker, for me...

I do a fair amount of running at night, and am almost always underway when well before sunrise. When I passed the anchorage at the bottom of the Alligator River on the morning pictured below, the Alligator-Pungo Canal was still gonna be pretty thick with ground fog for another couple of hours until the sun burned it off... Unless this guy had someone swiping the forward panels of his enclosure with a squeegee continuously, he probably wasn't going anywhere for awhile...


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

I love the Waccamaw and the Pasquotank! We've other things happening that are keeping us in Florida this summer, but we usually take 10 weeks cruising from Florida to Maine.


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## shananchie (Jan 29, 2014)

I can only speak for Florida, but I can't imagine why anyone would want to motor the ICW with a cruising sailboat. I count 80 -- 80 -- Atlantic ICW bridges in the state. If you want to spend your time listening to the diesel rumble while motoring in circles, waiting for the bridges to open, go for it.

You have to go outside at Fort Lauderdale in any event and sail the last 30 miles or so to Miami because the Tuttle Causeway Bridge is 55 feet.

With a six-foot draft, you also can't venture south on the ICW through the Keys. Lots of five-foot readings around Islamorada and at various other points. 

I do have to say, as a longtime South Florida sailor, that it always baffles me to see all of these tricked-out bluewater cruisers motoring the ICW on picture-perfect days while I'm heading out to sail in my 30-footer. 

I always think, why didn't you buy a trawler and save yourself the hassle with bridges?

Also, the ICW in Florida is dull. Multimillion-dollar mansions start to look alike after a while. And the 80-dollar-a-night marinas aren't worth e-mailing home about. But the ocean on the other side of the barrier islands ... that's beautiful. 

There's some fine sailing out there for those who are into sailing.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

The thing with the ICW is it's more a question of what you want from your trip. For while there are some "wrong" ways to run it, there isn't any one "right" way. It's your trip, your boat, your choices. 

For many, it's their first trip to unfamiliar waters. After a few days though, you start to develop a rhythm, a sense of what you're comfortable with. And more to the point, just what this journey is. All our advice won't get you to that point, it's one you come to on your own.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I was pretty fortunate going through south Florida - I got behind a couple barges and followed them through most of the bridges and never slowed down.

John, I discovered a neat trick about keeping the fog and mist off the enclosure - Lemon Pledge Furniture Polish - worked like a charm. Not only did it make the mist form into larger beads, but it also allowed them to quickly wash down the window and kept things perfectly clear. My entire closure and dodger are clear, so I can see all the way around the boat. And, I have it set up so I can sit or stand with an unobstructed view at all times.

Additionally, I had my jib cut in such a manner so it rides well above my field of view - Keep in mind I'm an old school powerboater and spent a lot of time offshore in the wee hours of darkness headed for distant canyons to catch marlin, tuna, mahi, wahoo, and an occasional swordfish. I was one of the idiots that ran the boat from the top of the tuna tower. Damned it was cold and rough up there.  Now I ride in a lot more comfort. 

One of my biggest fears offshore was running into one of those unlit artificial reef buoys. Yeah, there were all on the charts, but I still worried about hitting one. That's why 3G radar will be on the boat for the next night trip.

Cheers,

Gary


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

travlineasy said:


> I was pretty fortunate going through south Florida - I got behind a couple barges and followed them through most of the bridges and never slowed down.
> 
> John, I discovered a neat trick about keeping the fog and mist off the enclosure - Lemon Pledge Furniture Polish - worked like a charm. Not only did it make the mist form into larger beads, but it also allowed them to quickly wash down the window and kept things perfectly clear. My entire closure and dodger are clear, so I can see all the way around the boat. And, I have it set up so I can sit or stand with an unobstructed view at all times.
> 
> ...


Ain't that the truth! On those inky, moonless nights, those damned things are invisible. Some electronic charts also do not show them on all layers. Radar even has a hard time picking them out because they are fairly small but it does pick them out.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

shananchie said:


> ...
> I do have to say, as a longtime South Florida sailor, that it always baffles me to see all of these tricked-out bluewater cruisers motoring the ICW on picture-perfect days while I'm heading out to sail in my 30-footer.
> 
> I always think, why didn't you buy a trawler and save yourself the hassle with bridges?...


I think it's sort of like the answer to the question some people ask about why other sailboats motor during perfectly good sailing conditions. Why does anyone else care?

It could be comfort level, working up the nerve to go on the outside, it could be people getting used to a new to them boat, could be people with mechanical issues, could be people who just want to see what's back there (on the ICW), could be someone who keeps their sailboat at a slip on the ICW who is heading out to the nearest inlet.

Who am I to judge why they're doing what they're doing? I just enjoyed the experience of the stretch I was on, watched the wildlife and changing scenery, waved to the people who passed us and kept on moving. We did a combination of in and out but the ICW portion isn't boring unless you don't care to look beyond your own boat.


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

travlineasy;1915906John said:


> sorry to hijack, but don't do that. It kills the Strataglass. I learned that in a canvas shop.
> 
> You don't have to take my word for it. From Strataglass:
> http://www.strataglass.com/strataglass-care-and-maintenance


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## shananchie (Jan 29, 2014)

Quote: 

"I think it's sort of like the answer to the question some people ask about why other sailboats motor during perfectly good sailing conditions. Why does anyone else care?"

Well, one reason to care is that needlessly using the ICW inconveniences many, many people and doesn't cast sailboaters in a good light.

Every one of those 80 bridge openings a cruiser causes in Florida results in a 10- to 15-minute traffic jam, catching somewhere between 50 and 150 cars at a time.

So let's say there's an average of 100 people delayed by each bridge opening. That would be as many as 8,000 people inconvenienced by a cruising boat that didn't want to travel in the ocean.

And, as a Floridian, I think it's fair to say that many of those people waiting in the cars are smart enough to know that a big ocean boat has no business using the ICW on a nice day. What they say about you, you would be offended by.

The ICW is a wonderful alternative when bad weather sets in and you don't want to challenge the Gulfstream or a tricky inlet. You can still tick off 40 miles a day while waiting for the ocean to settle down.

If you use it all of the time, though, and rarely unfurl your sails, it's time to go over to the dark side and buy a powerboat that doesn't open drawbridges.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Ironically, a lot of the draw bridges along the ICW are too low for trawlers as well. They were in the same position as the sailboats most of the time, circling slowly and awaiting the bridge openings.  

Gary


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

Multihullgirl said:


> sorry to hijack, but don't do that. It kills the Strataglass. I learned that in a canvas shop.
> 
> You don't have to take my word for it. From Strataglass:
> Strataglass Maintenance & Care | The Vinyl Sheet Alternative


Well then, my clear choice would be not to buy the Strataglass. Why would I want a product that is sensitive to damage by all the things they list and then requires only their special cleaners? I'll remain with my choice of a generic vinyl and use the lemon Pledge wax/cleaner, like Travlineasy, that I've used without harm for many years.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

shananchie said:


> Quote:
> 
> "I think it's sort of like the answer to the question some people ask about why other sailboats motor during perfectly good sailing conditions. Why does anyone else care?"
> 
> ...


Your numbers seem to be a bit off...

Off the top of my head, over the 250 statute miles of ICW between the FL-GA line, and Ft Pierce, I can only think of 9 bascule bridges...

Between Jupiter and Miami, of course, whole different story... Still, there are nowhere near 80 bridges that require opening along the East coast of Florida...


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

"Every one of those 80 bridge openings a cruiser causes in Florida results in a 10- to 15-minute traffic jam, catching somewhere between 50 and 150 cars at a time." 

What am I missing here, as most of these bridges near 'populated areas' most typically only open on a schedule - hourly or on the half hour and with many totally shut down during 'rush hours'? If one 'times it correctly' and keeps up the proper boat speed, such really isnt too much of a bother since such practice will result in the least delay for all.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

shananchie said:


> Quote:
> 
> "I think it's sort of like the answer to the question some people ask about why other sailboats motor during perfectly good sailing conditions. Why does anyone else care?"
> 
> ...


I don't know. I lived in Miami for three years(and in Sunny Isles, east of the ICW, for a year of that time). It never bothered me a bit for the bridges to open and I don't remember ever hearing anybody complain about it. It's just a fact of life down there.

Just the opposite. Usually, I would watch the boat go by thinking, "I wish that was me."


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

There are 46 bridges that regularly need opening for most sailboats on the ICW from the Georgia-Florida state line to Biscayne Bay. 36 of these bridges are between the St. Lucie Inlet south of Fort Pierce and Key Biscayne at Miami.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Which is one of the reasons I go out at Fort Pierce!

My first time going north, I had to go in at Port Everglades (weather) on Memorial Day weekend. Since I knew someone at Pompano Beach, I grabbed a slip and stayed until Tuesday. Stayed inside up to Fort Pierce and now, avoid that stretch like the plague.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

I know some people are very troubled by bridges. I like to be able to time them right, but it never troubles me to wait if the time is reasonable. I did once wait for three days behind a bridge that had a mechanical problem!


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## l_lym (Aug 15, 2004)

Good thread as we prepare to join the parade for the first time this fall. For us it's not only that this is a first trip well beyond our home waters but also first post retirement, more than a week or two cruise - got the time to poke along and visit lots of new places so why not leisurely work our way south and see what's there. 

Keep up with the great comments and suggestions.


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## shananchie (Jan 29, 2014)

OK, I count 47 out of 80 that need opening on offshoreblue.com. I hadn't realized so many North Florida bridges had been converted to the newer 65-foot standard. Still ... 47 is a lot. Maybe 4,700 people stuck in traffic instead of 8,000?

I've lived in Florida for 37 years. No one is ever happy to catch a bridge opening, except maybe a daydreaming sailor. You're late for appointments, late getting home, wasting gas, while some guy floats slowly by you with a smile on his face. Not a recipe for a contented driver.

The thing is, many bridges are scheduled to open every 30 minutes. No boat, no opening. So unnecessary ICW motoring trips add a hell of a lot of openings. 

And back to my original point: Why exactly do people buy that Cape Horner 45 with radar, SSB, DSC, AIS, satellite phone, a 12-person liferaft, chart plotter, wind vane, etc., if they plan to spend their time dodging kayakers and stand-up paddleboarders on the ICW?

Sailing out of Hillsboro Inlet, I guess I would see five big cruising boats lumbering down the ICW for every cruising boat I would see out on the ocean. 

Doesn't make any sense to me. Sure, you need to stay away from the smaller inlets if you don't know how to run them. 

But you can sail/motorsail from big port to big port on the ocean and make great time, even if you want to stop and see the sights. One 24-hour run equals three days on the ICW.

Really, it isn't that rough. The average seas are 2 to 5 feet. Kids sail Lasers out there.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

shananchie said:


> ...
> 
> Really, it isn't that rough. The average seas are 2 to 5 feet. Kids sail Lasers out there.


Right. Got it.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

shananchie said:


> And back to my original point: Why exactly do people buy that Cape Horner 45 with radar, SSB, DSC, AIS, satellite phone, a 12-person liferaft, chart plotter, wind vane, etc., if they plan to spend their time dodging kayakers and stand-up paddleboarders on the ICW?
> 
> Sailing out of Hillsboro Inlet, I guess I would see five big cruising boats lumbering down the ICW for every cruising boat I would see out on the ocean.
> 
> ...


Perhaps the most perfect ride I've ever had down the FL East coast occurred about a dozen or so years ago, delivering a Trintella 47 in November, at pretty much the height of the fall migration, to Key West... I happened to depart Fernandina early on a Saturday, and arrived in Lauderdale as darkness fell on Sunday night... The sailing could not possibly have been more glorious, 15-18 knots out of the NE to E, not a cloud in the sky for 2 days, and a spectacular Perseid meteor shower on Saturday night off Canaveral thrown in for good measure... One of my all-time easiest and most perfect overnights, the sort of sail where there's no need to touch a sheet for hours, the only stress involved in dodging a Disney ship or 2 returning to Port Canaveral. No problems at all staying awake, I was hardly tired at all by the time I arrived in Lauderdale...

However, aside from the hordes of sportfishing boats out on that perfect Sunday between St Lucie and Port Everglades, I was pretty much alone out there... For, during the course of that entire trip, I saw not ONE SINGLE other boat under sail during those 2 days...

Sailing is just not a very high priority among the majority of East coast snowbirds, it's as simple as that...


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

> And back to my original point: Why exactly do people buy that Cape Horner 45 with radar, SSB, DSC, AIS, satellite phone, a 12-person liferaft, chart plotter, wind vane, etc., if they plan to spend their time dodging kayakers and stand-up paddleboarders on the ICW?


Their boat, their trip, their choice. It's no more complicated than that.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

On my last trip from the Mississippi gulf coast to the Florida Keys, I took the ICW as much as I could, all the way down, anchoring some nights and staying in marinas some nights, just poking along, seeing things and exploring. But, when it came time to come back, I just sailed straight home right across the Gulf. Both trips were fun, just different fun.


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

shananchie said:


> OK, I count 47 out of 80 that need opening on offshoreblue.com. I hadn't realized so many North Florida bridges had been converted to the newer 65-foot standard. Still ... 47 is a lot. Maybe 4,700 people stuck in traffic instead of 8,000?
> 
> I've lived in Florida for 37 years. No one is ever happy to catch a bridge opening, except maybe a daydreaming sailor. You're late for appointments, late getting home, wasting gas, while some guy floats slowly by you with a smile on his face. Not a recipe for a contented driver.
> 
> The thing is, many bridges are scheduled to open every 30 minutes. No boat, no opening. So unnecessary ICW motoring trips add a hell of a lot of openings.


Unnecessary bridges are not a recipe for a contented Sailor...

Well if that was the case, we should let the tugs and barges and other commercial traffic that bring goods to coastal ports know that they are becoming an inconvenience to the local road drivers. Would hate for them to have to accept a way of life that they chose... (;

It could be worse, the old rigolets draw bridge used to break down some times...... Open. Which would require a 1.5 hr detour around to the twin span. Was a risk and way of life. Deal with it or move to Kansas to be blunt.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

As far as going outside vs the ICW, many of the "snowbirds" are loaded up to the hilt with 4 months of provisions, clothes, and everything under the sun. They're not in an "offshore" condition. The big enclosure tents impede getting to those unimportant things like sheets (not bed and winches. Deciding to go offshore means making the boat ready to deal with ocean conditions. Many of these folks have kids and non-sailors aboard for a trip south for the winter. Nothing wrong with that idea. They're having fun. That's what counts. It's just not 100% sailing but more like having an RV.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

smurphny said:


> As far as going outside vs the ICW, many of the "snowbirds" are loaded up to the hilt with 4 months of provisions, clothes, and everything under the sun. They're not in an "offshore" condition. The big enclosure tents impede getting to those unimportant things like sheets (not bed and winches. Deciding to go offshore means making the boat ready to deal with ocean conditions. Many of these folks have kids and non-sailors aboard for a trip south for the winter. Nothing wrong with that idea. They're having fun. That's what counts. It's just not 100% sailing but more like having an RV.


Sorry, I'm not buying that one...

Last time I checked, it was still possible to re-provision in Florida, for example 

Are you seriously suggesting that Snowbirds headed for the Keys or Bahamas for the winter really need to be carrying that much more crap than, say, a family headed out across the Pacific?


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## shananchie (Jan 29, 2014)

Coastal sailing in Florida is not exactly offshore conditions. From 1979 to 1984, I took numerous trips along the South Florida coast and through the Upper Keys in an 800-pound Compac 16. Never took the ICW unless it was storming. Just saying ...


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

The coast of Maine is nice,- no ICW.... "Inside"/"outside"? It's hard to distinguish and I never seem to meet anyone who cares. Both sides of Long Island & Delmarva are nice. I'd motor through the "Rockpile" at North Myrtle Beach in order to languish in the Waccamaw for a few days. People should be totally free from this silly debate and crusie where they please. No one needs a lesson about time , distance & speed or to be told that there is a best way to cruise. There is no more honorable choice regardless of how your boat is outfitted or how many bridges you raise.


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## njsail (Oct 1, 2012)

I started this post looking for help to plan my trip in the fall.....I'm very grateful for all the knowledge many have shared, and now feel more confident that my wife and I can do the trip at a slow, smart, and safe pace........as far as some notion of why people with a 45 ft boat would go inside the whole e
Would go inside, that was never the plan for us.....what we want is to enjoy the trip sail outside as much as possible but be safely anchored at night and enjoy the many stops along the way


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

JonEisberg said:


> Sorry, I'm not buying that one...
> 
> Last time I checked, it was still possible to re-provision in Florida, for example
> 
> Are you seriously suggesting that Snowbirds headed for the Keys or Bahamas for the winter really need to be carrying that much more crap than, say, a family headed out across the Pacific?


I've noticed quite a few boats headed south with all sorts of things lashed up on deck, enclosures that inhibit basic sailing equipment, waterlines buried, untrimmed. It would take some effort to get the boat ready to set out in the ocean for a couple of days. Sailing with the big cockpit enclosures is beyond me but some of that canvas must have to be stowed? I think the plan is to get south. Sailing is secondary. The ICW can be transited in any weather so it's not necessary to wait for windows. There don't seem to be many boats outside even in good stretches of weather.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

Some people just want to have the most fun they can have, and for them, going down the ICW is more fun than going offshore.


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

njsail said:


> I'm somewhat new to the forum but not sailing. I imagine this question has come up many times but the more i look into it the more different answers i get.
> 
> I have a 45 foot 6 ft draft sailboat and want to travel from NY to Fl mostly on the ICW in the fall. We are willing to pop in and out for fun or to bypass obstacles the make the trip doable, but only for day trips we want to be safely anchored at night out inside. I have read, or heard so many conflicting accounts that it is hard to get a handle on this.....Magazines like Sail sound like you need to be careful about traversing some shoals but you'll make it......some sailors say many parts are as little as 3ft deep and you will have to be towed frequently or it just can't be done with a 6ft draft.
> 
> ...


S/V Union Pacific : Departure day
We did this trip last fall. check it out.



Group9 said:


> Some people just want to have the most fun they can have, and for them, going down the ICW is more fun than going offshore.


Maybe if your 70 years old. Otherwise there is not much to see or do.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

UnionPacific said:


> S/V Union Pacific : Departure day
> We did this trip last fall. check it out.
> 
> Maybe if your 70 years old. Otherwise there is not much to see or do.


This:









versus 
This:










I don't know about 70 year olds. But, sometimes, I like seeing a little booty when I'm cruising.


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

thats one spot. Lets see the booty in coinjock...?

here, have some booty.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

UnionPacific said:


> Maybe if your 70 years old. Otherwise there is not much to see or do.


Hmmm, one can only assume you didn't look very hard...

I think we're beginning to understand why you might feel the need for a big-screen TV up in the Northwest Passage...


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Ditto!


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## Shinook (Jul 13, 2012)

Group9 said:


>


That's a small percentage of the ditch, the rest is a narrow and shallow mudhole filled with bugs.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Shinook said:


> That's a small percentage of the ditch, the rest is a narrow and shallow mudhole filled with bugs.


It all depends upon the time of year you decide to make the trip. Sure, it's narrow and shallow in many spots, but there are other places where you can do some real sailing, and I didn't encounter bugs at all in mid October and throughout March.

Gary


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

One of the things about running the ditch is all the people I've met. Sailneters and folks from other forums, people I've read about, and just plain 'ol fellow cruisers. I can't even remember all the times someone has offered me a ride for supplies, or a meal, or arranged a dock, or helped me in some other way. As well as places that I've been, that I'd never have gone to otherwise.

So even though, as a singlehander, it's easier for me outside, inside does have it's pluses also.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

smurphny said:


> > Originally Posted by JonEisberg
> > Sorry, I'm not buying that one...
> >
> > Last time I checked, it was still possible to re-provision in Florida, for example
> ...


Seems to me we're in agreement, I just thought your post read as somewhat 'excusing' many Snowbirds as being Flat Water Capable Only due to the amount of crap they needed to be carrying, compared to others out on an extended cruise...

If anything, heading down the East coast/ICW should theoretically enable Snowbirds to 'travel lighter' than those on extended cruises elsewhere, whether it be those making passages, or exploring more remote destinations. And yet, quite the opposite often appears to be the case. I'm always perplexed,, for instance, by the number of boats running the Ditch carrying jerry jugs of fuel on deck. Hell, there are practically as many fuel stops on the ICW as there are gas stations on I-95, for chrissake... 

But there is one aspect above all else, that has always surprised me about the relatively small percentage of Snowbirds who elect to run portions of the trip outside... Namely, the simple fact that - given favorable conditions and all things being equal - it is generally far _EASIER, AND FAR LESS STRESSFUL_ to run in the open waters outside, than in the typically tight confines of the ICW... _FAR_ less to go 'wrong' when you're outside, the helm doesn't require constant attention, no worries about going aground, no jousting with powerboat wakes, no begging with bridge tenders to hold their hourly opening a few extra minutes as you're churning along with your diesel under full load... 

One stretch I'm always desperate to run outside, is the bit between Morehead City and Wrightsville... That section can be an incredible PITA, every inch of it a narrow channel with little margin for error, the Camp LeJeune firing range, the 4 restricted bridges, the paucity of good anchorages, the slim chance of being able to do any real sailing thru there, and so on...

On the other hand, that leg outside can often be one of the nicest of the entire trip... Good, easy inlets at each end, beautiful water with generally a slew of dolphins, and in prevailing conditions, quite often just perfect sailing...

So, even on a windless, flat calm day when one is gonna be motoring in either case, why do so many still choose to subject themselves to the myriad hassles and frustrations of running that section of the Ditch, when it could be so much easier and far more relaxing, to head out Beaufort Inlet, and plug in the waypoint off the jetties at Masonboro a mere 65 miles distant? The number of times I've done that leg on picture-perfect days, while overhearing the endless whining over the VHF about powerboat wakes and bridge schedules from those who've stayed inside, I'll just never get it...

Oh, well... perhaps it's just me...


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

I think it comes down to this crazy, but true, fact:

Not everybody is the same.


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## argalax (Dec 17, 2012)

Very informative thread.
We also plan to go South ICW this fall (we're 60' tall, 6' deep). It's going to be our first... and we are not familiar with various sections of the ICW.

If we aim to have approximately 2/3 inside and 1/3 sail outside, which sections would that be? What are your favorites - on both sides?

We are looking to experience good parts of the ICW (easy, scenic, free anchorages, cultural, noteworthy stops) and skip others (stressful, tricky, dangerous) by getting out for a day or overnight.

Also, what is the best time to start moving South from Annapolis MD area? Beginning of September?

Thanks.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

argalax said:


> Also, what is the best time to start moving South from Annapolis MD area? Beginning of September?


Do you have insurance limits to worry about?


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## argalax (Dec 17, 2012)

SVAuspicious said:


> Do you have insurance limits to worry about?


Good point to consider (first timers  ). We are planning to have an insurance.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

To me, anything south of Port Royal Sound (North end of Hilton Head Island) is outside. Beaufort to Wrightsville Beach I prefer outside as well.

I usually do overnight hops south from Port Royal (or Charleston).


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Speaking of jumping outside, has anyone run St. Lucie Inlet lately in a sailboat?


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## shananchie (Jan 29, 2014)

Hurricane season is generally active through October, so leaving any earlier than that opens you to the possibility of getting caught by a storm. Being in the Intracoastal doesn't afford you any protection. You takes your chances ...

Your insurance policy may have something to say about when you will be covered in the hurricane zone and what that zone is.

When you get to Florida, decide where to you want to visit on land. Enter and leave the ocean at major ports; The smaller inlets can be treacherous if you don't know how to run them, and sometimes even when you do know how to run them. Some of them are shoaled.

Even if you have to motor due to a south wind, it's much faster and easier to get on the ocean. You can set the autopilot and relax instead of dodging shoals and hunting for channel markers. You'll have a choice of running overnight and racking up the miles or ducking in to anchor.

Stay relatively close to shore in South Florida -- maybe 40 feet of water if it's not rough -- to avoid the northbound Gulfstream current and sometimes pick up a southbound countercurrent. 

You must go outside at Fort Lauderdale because of the 55-foot Tuttle Causeway bridge in Miami. To get into Biscayne Bay, you can take the port (south) channel at the Port of Miami to be safe. Or you can cut in just south of Key Biscayne to get to No Name Harbor. These channels are shallower, but should be able to handle your draft. Check the latest charts to be sure.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Even October can be a bit iffy when it comes to hurricanes - Last October I met up with Sandy at Myrtle Beach, ducked into the Osprey Marina and played a 4 day Hurricane Party. Fortunately, Sandy never got closer than 150 miles offshore, the winds never got above 50 before she headed north and devastated New Jersey. Osprey Marina was probably the best hurricane hole in the area, totally protected from winds in all directions, and quite deep. Additionally, the marina had a deal with an Italian Restaurant in town that offered a free shuttle to the restaurant, plus they allowed you to go grocery shopping at the super market next door and brought you and your groceries back to the marina at no charge if you dined in the restaurant. The restaurant was famous for it's meat balls, which tipped the scales at a pound apiece. 

Cheers,

Gary


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