# barefoot vs sailing shoe alternative



## drgamble (Oct 28, 2008)

So except in instances of cold weather sailing, I have always been a barefoot sailor and I know debate varies of barefoot versus shoe'd sailing. Well after nailing a toe a few weeks back and watching it, and half my foot, swell and turn purple, I started to look for an alternative that would give me the freedom, grip and flexibility of barefooting while offering some more protection. I splurged and purchased a pair of Vibram Fivefingers KSO's.

For the record I have zero affiliation with the company. At first glance these things are flat out goofy looking (think "Big Foot") but after reading more about them they really started to make sense as an innovative alternative to going shoeless...










I used them for the first time this last weekend on the boat and thus far it is nothing but 100% praise. You can wiggle your toes in these things meaning they flex as you step around the boat and help contour and grip uneven surfaces. They breathe well and after getting them wet, drain and dry well too. I took a swim with them on and they were barely noticeable. The soles are non-marking. At the end of the day you hardly realize you have any shoes on at all yet you're offering your feet greater protection from the many obstacles on a sailboat. I intend to make these my full time kayaking shoe also.

I can't speak to their longevity - so hopefully some others out there have used FiveFingers and speak to that but otherwise 2 thumbs up and thought I'd share.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

There's an extensive thread on sailing footwear over on SA and a couple people mentioned these, too. Comments were similar to your's: The look goofy, but work well.

Personally, I'm planning on trying Harken's shoes, with over-the-calf SealSkinz underneath in cold weather/water.

Jim


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## RhodesSwiftsure (Aug 5, 2007)

*The Limit of Absurdity*

Clear your decks and learn to walk around cleats. Alternatively, wear shoes. The notion of spending money on a 10-character sock puppet is so ridiculous as to approach the sublime.


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## US27inKS (Feb 6, 2005)

RhodesSwiftsure said:


> Clear your decks and learn to walk around cleats. Alternatively, wear shoes. The notion of spending money on a 10-character sock puppet is so ridiculous as to approach the sublime.


I have to agree with drgamble. I normally sail barefoot because I feel more secure walking around on a heeling boat's foredeck without shoes than I do with. Sometimes I stub my toe, and would love some sort of protection without giving up the grip.


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## DrB (Mar 29, 2007)

*Hate to burst your bubble guys...*

But those 10 toe booties won't protect you from stubbing your toe, only possibly improving your grip a little and allow you to walk on hot decks. I've stubbed my toes through boat shoe loafers. Not as bad as a direct hit, but they can be painful for a few hours.

If you stub your toe often use a full front shoe, not a pair of ape feet shoes. If you have a desire to get shoes and spend money to "avoid" toe stub, at least spend it on something that will offer protection.

DrB


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

A guy on SA said he's free climbed a mast w/ those and a pair of atlas type gloves. They don't give you great protection, but they're better than sailing barefoot. Sailing with out any type of shoe may be comfortable, but imho, stupid. Look at the deck of ANY sailboat, all that hardware just waiting to break toes and cut your feet. Whinch handles, spinnaker poles, hell a cooler down below, etc. Take care of your hands, and take care of your feet. I only take my shoes off at anchor, and to go swimming. They're safety equipment.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Well, this thread was certain to change direction. i will simply make a couple of comments.

I typically go barefoot. My barefoot typically grips better than most shoes (with some exceptions). And I do not care how careful you are, one good swell you weren't prepared for and you can jam your foot into a cleat or something that does not give. 

But I have a real issue with shoes too. Most people buy a $100 pair of Harken shoes, which work as good or better than barefoot out of the box, then proceed to wear thema all around town or through the boat yard. THat's about all it takes is one good trip through a parkinglot and you put an oil-sheen on the bottom of those shoes and they pretty much become worthless. I popped my knee out of its socket (I have no ACL in rt knee) stepping off wearing one of those shoes. I learned my lesson after that. I have shoes for boat and shoes for getting off the boat. 

My point in all this is that there are worse things that stubing a toe - like slipping off and going overboard or ripping out an acl. Very, very few people I have known have a 2-shoe principle and stick to it. As such, I generally favor the barefoot approach. But then again, I also sail in warm climates. I cannot imagine the pain of stubbing a cold toe.

My opinions.

- CD


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## drgamble (Oct 28, 2008)

Geesh - a lot of sensitivity here to these shoes. I'll admit, I was a critic and had zero expectations when I got them so frankly I'm not sure knocking them without trying them would do anyone any good on a gear review post. Maybe we can start a forum where people can rip apart items they don't have or haven't tried - brilliant! 

Another side note, I do have full protective Sebago deck shoes with full toe protection. Simply put these Vibram's grip ten times better and they really do offer protection, albeit obviously not as great as a full shoe, or steel boot for that matter. The rubber is firm yet flexible and wraps over the upper part of the toe. Another positive over a shoe - a flatter style sole has a tendency to slip or be unbalanced when stepping on lines. This shoe actually contours around such an obstacle.



RhodesSwiftsure said:


> Clear your decks and learn to walk around cleats. Alternatively, wear shoes. The notion of spending money on a 10-character sock puppet is so ridiculous as to approach the sublime.


And this one really cracked me up. Rhodes - I'm torn here with your advice... I can work my way towards really cleaning my decks - I mean really get rid of everything - no cleats, no lines, no clutches, no grab rails - then again, maybe I could drop a cool $30M on a Wally 80 with pure flush decks free of obstacles. On the other hand - I could really just get as sloppy as can be but continue to purchase crazy "sock puppet" items like this as technology evolves that would fully protect my body - I'm thinking maybe a suit like Batman's - or maybe Iron Man. Just think - I would no longer have to worry about the boom! :laugher :laugher :laugher

As others have pointed out - it appears quite a few racers swear by these things. Anyone that has ever had experience with a Vibram sole can attest that they make quality products. In doing my research I discovered that these shoes, aka sock puppets, were named a "Best Invention" by Time magazine in 2007 and there are current studies being conducted on marathon runners that are using said sock puppets. Another benefit touted, and one that makes sense, is that with shoes we truly don't utilize all the muscles in our feet and lower legs, whereas the FiveFingers free up the foot and toes to get full range of motion to those muscles. The thing that finally pushed me over the edge to get a pair was reading from those that have purchased and used these shoes and how much praise they put out there on the shoe - so from a skeptic to a believer there you have it.


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## merc2dogs (Jun 5, 2004)

I think DrB has it right, most of the protection that you get with shoes is because a blow from stubbing your toe or dropping something is spread out over the rest of the toe by the shoe material, so with each toe individually wrapped, the protection level will drop. If the five finger material was thick enough to provide serious protection, you'd lose any advantage of flexability.

To me they are just expensive moccasins, which I used to wear all the time. During the summer now, pretty much all I wear are water shoes or nothing. I wear them on bicycle rides, working in the garage, and for pretty much everything else. It's actualy pretty common for me to have lost my regular shoes/boots when I need them in the fall. 
I think I would like to try a pair though, because I do most climbing barefoot for the grip.

Ken.


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## RealityCheck (Jun 2, 2007)

Cruisingdad said:


> I have shoes for boat and shoes for getting off the boat. ......
> 
> As such, I generally favor the barefoot approach. But then again, I also sail in warm climates. I cannot imagine the pain of stubbing a cold toe.
> 
> - CD


I actually have a similar approach. I'm NOT into racing just kicked back cruising and attempt to avoid bad weather/ conditions when possible. I also favor the barefoot approach. On some occasions I need to alter this due to deck temps, or when it is obvious I'm probably going to have to do some faster maneuvering on deck than I normally do. That is time for shoes. I also always use shoes when coming into or out of a slip but not normally when I take a mooring or set anchor which is the majority of the time. I have "shoes" I toss into the dink when I'm going ashore. I have a set of hiking shoes for when I taking an extended hike which is usually on a volcanic island and bare-feet and light weight flip flops are a non starter.

Avoiding stubbing your toes is always the "best" way to go but as stated it is just something that too frequently happens. Keep decks clear as possible and be prepared to may changes to your footing in advance of the real need. Like in the Boy Scouts "Be Prepared" or "Be Repaired??? :laugher

I RealllllLYly can Not see me in those monkey feet!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Cute, but what's going to protect my Achille's tendon when I get suddenly backed into a cleat or winch drum?

No thanks.


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## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

Although I haven't tried the Vibram sock thingies....I have, and love, my Keens! They offer fantastic toe protection and are ergonomic to boot. They are non-marking!









I have no affiliation with keen, but I have multiple pairs of their shoe and sandals and love 'em


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## Michael K (Feb 27, 2006)

Okay, I'll chime in. I am enjoying this thread, if only for the nomenclature! Just think how useful the "monkey feet" will be come Halloween! 

Having said that, I think most would pefer not to wear shoes. But toe stubbing, pain, and possible infection are all enough for me to want to wear shoes while underway. As for the choices available, I guess the FiveFinger KSO approach is as valid as any. My choice: either the TredSafe brand found at WalMart (very good non-skid, durable and cheap) or a pair of water mocs (if I foresee getting wet).


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Here's the SA thread on a similar subject: Best Deck Shoes? - Sailing Anarchy Forums

Some interesting feedback there, from men and women who primarily race (I assume), and, therefore, are probably more demanding of their equipment than the average sailor.

Jim


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## WhatTheFoley (Mar 30, 2009)

*Barefoot*

I go barefoot most days in the summer/early fall. Like most things in sailing thinking ahead and being careful are part of the game. Accidents happen and they can hurt.. but if you can anticipate things a little and react quickly you can avoid the worst of it... Just my .02$


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## SecondWindNC (Dec 29, 2008)

ehmanta said:


> Although I haven't tried the Vibram sock thingies....I have, and love, my Keens! They offer fantastic toe protection and are ergonomic to boot. They are non-marking!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have a pair of these but had no idea that they're non-marking! Thanks for the info, I'll have to see how they do on deck.


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## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

For the record (if anybody cares!) I usually wear my Keens while I am sailing and go barefoot while at anchor. I have stubbed my toes too many times while sailing not to wear anything.
Another alternative: buy a 95' crewed sailboat and let the crew stub their toes while I sit back and sip a gin and tonic while barefoot


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

Look.... It's very simple.... Vibram Soles are made at Quaboag Rubber Co. which is in the center of my tiny little town of North Brookfield - They Have to be Good    
Joking and home town industry plugs aside.... Vibram *IS* one of the best gripping soles ever made by man. As for walking around on a moving sailboat barefoot - I think it's nuts. I go with an earlier post - Protective footware is Safety Equipment.


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## SecondWindNC (Dec 29, 2008)

As a general rule, I think it's best to wear shoes when underway. I love going barefoot on the boat and do so at anchor, but I always bear in mind what a wise man told me: "Boats are not soft places."


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

I too have stubbed my toes too many times to willingly sail barefoot. I have a pair of Sperry boat mocs that I keep exclusively for the boat; I found out the hard way that wearing them around town wears away the necessary stickiness from the soles. I have had to improvise though; I have forgetten to bring the Sperrys on occasion and wound up sailing in my sneakers, my sandals or even barefoot.


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## EO32 (Jan 7, 2008)

Sperry Billfish. I wear them all the time. Excellent traction.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

mstern said:


> I have had to improvise though; I have forgetten to bring the Sperrys on occasion and wound up sailing in my sneakers, my sandals or even barefoot.


That's what sea bags are for . I keep everything in mine: Boat shoes (currently sandals, actually), PFD, foulies, change of clothes, bathing suit, towel, hand-bearing compass, etc. It gets kind of heavy, and I get ribbed about it, but I'm never without whatever I need--either on our boat or another .

Jim


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## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

I would be curious if anyone has tried to revive the "stickiness" on the soles of those shoes worn around town......????
I wonder if something like lacquer thinner would clean off and revive the soles? How about something like Goof-Off? Curious


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## SVlagniappe (Jun 22, 2008)

Finally, people who wear crocs have someone to make fun of!


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I luv my Keen sandles. Now as far a non marking........I will say yes and no. On my 85 Jeanneau, no issues. On a friends C&C 115 I crewed on during the Seattle NOOD's a year ago, I marked up the deck some. It was easy to clean off vs some black marks, but for me any how, VERY embarrassing as I was also under the impression they were non marking, and did not have issues on my boat with the Keens, thought I would be ok on that boat......... My forwarning to you all with Keens! 

I also have a pair of tight fitting Sperry deck shoes, do not remember the model, but they work well. Along with a pair of Sperry boats that are so so. 

I do not generally go bare foot, as I find I can get better grip with the above shoes. Then again, I do race, so positive footing and grip is a must! No need to worry about stubbing, stepping on something and hurting yourself etc, or missing a line/tack or equal as you say OUCH and grab your foot instead of the sheet and you get knocked over etc.

Not sure about the shoes the OP mentioned, but I would not knock them until I tried or looked at a pair to see how they would do etc.

Marty


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

SEMIJim said:


> That's what sea bags are for . I keep everything in mine: Boat shoes (currently sandals, actually), PFD, foulies, change of clothes, bathing suit, towel, hand-bearing compass, etc. It gets kind of heavy, and I get ribbed about it, but I'm never without whatever I need--either on our boat or another .
> 
> Jim


Oh, I've got the boat bag that I keep in the back of my car. I keep the keys, knives, the gps, handheld VHF, water, snack, etc. in the bag. The shoes, however don't always make it back into the bag. If I come from work, I've changed from my work shoes into the boat shoes at the marina, and I don't put the work shoes back on when I leave the boat; I just drive home in the boat shoes. Sometimes I forget and just wear the boat shoes into the house, and from there, its only a hop, skip and a jump 'till I forget to put the shoes back in the car.


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## doubleeboy (Jul 21, 2008)

blt2ski said:


> I luv my Keen sandles. Now as far a non marking........I will say yes and no. On my 85 Jeanneau, no issues. On a friends C&C 115 I crewed on during the Seattle NOOD's a year ago, I marked up the deck some. It was easy to clean off vs some black marks, but for me any how, VERY embarrassing as I was also under the impression they were non marking, and did not have issues on my boat with the Keens, thought I would be ok on that boat......... My forwarning to you all with Keens!
> Marty


Marty and All,

Interesting observation about non marking on some boats, but on yours the shoes mark. We have the same situation on our 2001 Dehler 39. Shoes that won't mark other boats mark ours, not horribly, but damn, I don't want to look at marks nor have to lose my wax rubbing the marks out. People are dumbfounded and embarrassed when I tell them their non marking shoes are making a mess of our boat. It has gotten to the point that I now warn people, if your shoes aren't white bottom tennis sneakers, or Sperry boat shoes, don't come sailing with us. Why Dehler, and Jeanneau gelcoat marks so easy is beyond me, but it does apparently. My wife spent a week on a Hunter, leaving no marks with her Keens, yet they leave marks on our boat if the side of the sole rubs the deck.

The worst are the heavy lug black soles on crosstrainer shoes. The guests assure me they are non marking, so I have them drag a sole on a high wear spot near the companionway, yup more black

BTW, it turns out Sperry Gold Cup series shoes, the hi dollar boat shoes which are definitely non marking, don't stay that way for ever. On our sea trial the boat broker's shoes made a mess. We all surmised that they had worn down thru the no mark part of the sole. Luckily the boat was still yet to be detailed by the seller as per listing agreement.

michael


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Micheal,

The Keens seem to like smooth white surfaces, such as your Dehler, and the C&C 115 I was on last spring and summer a bit. My off white, almost tan, mostly non skid decks on my Jeanneau, are fine, I wear them all the time. But the C&C the owner had to ask me to not wear them. She could not figure out at first where the marks came from. Needless to say, I was terribly embarased! 

I do wish Keen had a different color bottom option, ie a tan or equal, such that one did not have to worry about marking if on a smooth white surface. My sperry's do not mark up the C&C, nor do I have issues with my boat. Not sure if the age of boat also might have something to do with it, in that your dehler and the C&C are 2-3 yrs old.......

I wear my Keens anywhere and every where! with and with out socks, in the snow/rain/sun..........in fact I need a new pair, I am almost thru the soles! I have not nonskid sipes left......and black is showing thru the yellow middle part of the sole......

So the warning at least on here is up, Keens are an either/or as far as marking. Test a non conspicuous area before having at it while wearing on deck!

Marty


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