# Sad - Boat fell off its stands



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I saw this in a neighboring boat yard the other night. I passed by today just before sunset, so I was able to snap a couple pics with my cell phone. I really hope this is not vandalism (which unfortunately has happened at this unsecured yard). Based on the fresh coat of light grey paint on the bottom and tip of the bow, I think this had been a nice restoration job in progress. The shallow keel looked OK, centerboard was sticking down slightly and is flexed and perhaps out of alignment, but probably not ruined. As you can see, rudder shaft is bent.  Also, it looks like one of the shrouds pulled off its chainplate (or the chainplate released/broke). But to my naked eye, it all looks fixable.

I immediately went to my own boat to double-check the stands and chains. 

Those of you on the east - be sure to clear the snow off if you're in the water. Last year there were lots of casualties from (power) boats that tipped over sideways because they were topheavy, or exhaust pipes that fell below the waterline from the weight.


























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## Allanbc (Apr 19, 2007)

Ouch!


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Its always a shame 


BUT in looking at the pictures i see 4 stands under a boat in the background that should have seven


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Pictures like that are just another reason I'm so glad to be on the 'afloat-year-round' West Coast!

Like you say, sure hope that was an honest accident....


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Well that sucks! It looks like the yard used concrete blocks which I thought was a big no no? I wonder if the yard cold be at fault? Um...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Concrete blocks are a bad idea...

Not chaining the stands together is a bad idea...

Not having plywood pads under the boat stands is a bad idea...

Not having the stands snugged up to the hull properly is a bad idea....

Tying a boat cover to the boat stands is a bad idea....

Having a tall boat cover design that adds too much windage is a bad idea...

There are a lot of reasons a boat can fall over... and it is never pretty.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

T37Chef said:


> Well that sucks! It looks like the yard used concrete blocks which I thought was a big no no? I wonder if the yard cold be at fault? Um...


I'm not sure how that yard operates - whether their staff is fully responsible for blocking, or they ask the owner to be present to assist with placement (like they do at my boat club). I know that they provide the stands. I almost put my boat there, but backed out at the last minute because I was concerned about security and I found a boat club that was so much cheaper I could afford to buy my own brand new stands (since the boat club does not provide them) and still break even in my first year.

I noticed the concrete blocks too, but it was not at all clear whether they were in use, or just stacked beneath the boat. However, the boat did appear to come into contact with them when it fell.

That's a good catch about the four stands on a boat that needs seven. That might call into question the quality of the yard's services. I was not willing to get close enough to the "leeward" side of the boat to see whether there were broken chains, powerboat stands instead of sailboat (a common problem that I see), or other root causes. It sure looks like there was no stand on the bow., though.

I did get close enough to the "windward" side to notice that the freshly painted bottom (and tip of the bow) had no missing spots where the pads had been, so it is likely the owner relocated the pads to facilitate painting. If true, he would likely own some of the liabililty.

It's such a shame. You can see that he had very carefully constructed a wood framework to support his tarp, and the portions of the tarp that had not pulled away were carefully cut and re-taped around the mast and shrouds. Not a high-end custom canvas by any stretch, but clearly a sign of an owner who was working to take care of his boat.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

sailingdog said:


> ...Not chaining the stands together is a bad idea...


By the way, the two stands that I could see forward of midships WERE chained together across the boat. But the starboard one had tipped over, possibly a sign that it was extended too high, and thus the stand may have been torqued by the windage, with the chain below the center of torque.

When I bought my stands, I made sure to buy the largest ones that would fit beneath the boat (and drove up to the Catalina dealer in Riverside to inspect several C250s on the hard to verify my measurements). None of my stands are extended more than 6" out of their bases.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

We have a minimum of seven stands under each boat, some with eight if they have a long bow section. The fore and aft stands are chained together and we have wood blocks under the keels. Tarps are NOT allowed to tie off to the stands.


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## Rangernewell (Oct 23, 2010)

I definetly have to agree with sailingdog ......If its not done right ...except problems


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

RhythmDoctor said:


> By the way, the two stands that I could see forward of midships WERE chained together across the boat. But the starboard one had tipped over, possibly a sign that it was extended too high, and thus the stand may have been torqued by the windage, with the chain below the center of torque.
> 
> When I bought my stands, I made sure to buy the largest ones that would fit beneath the boat (and drove up to the Catalina dealer in Riverside to inspect several C250s on the hard to verify my measurements). None of my stands are extended more than 6" out of their bases.


RD,

My compliments on your thoroughness. Driving to see a sister boat on the hard, to check measurements. Nicely done.

Regards,
Brad


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Best rule of thumb I've heard is one PAIR of boat stands PER 10' of boat length as a minimum. A 30' boat should have at least SIX STANDS.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Came across this last week. I never feel good about mast up winter storage for a myriad of reasons but the number one reason is the added windage to the vessel. On land you don't have the keel opposing the vessel from the forces of wind only the boat stands that are meant for balancing the boat. A sailboat is far more stable in the water than on land and leaving the spar up can add unnecessary windage.

This boat was roughly 28 feet & this is what I saw:

1- Three stands per side + 1 bow
2- All stands had been chained
3- Boat was on solid cement parking lot
4- Boat was on proper wood keel blocking
5- Boat had mast up and apparently a huge gust blew her over.

I don't know what else could have been done differently in this case as everything was done by the book by a very knowledgeable yard. The only difference between this boat and all the other mast up boats is that this one faced beam to the prevailing winter winds and the others faced bow or stern to..

The boat yard we store at has a full disclaimer document that says if you choose to store mast up you and your insurance company are liable for any damages caused if your boat tips over.

Something to think about.


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## primerate84 (Jun 14, 2006)

Wow, all of the pictures and discussion just turns my stomach. It's sad to see any boat damaged like these.


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## captbillc (Jul 31, 2008)

makes me happy i keep my nimble 30 on the trailer at home during the winter. the mast stays at the marina.


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

Makes me sick too. 

I'm glad I'm keeping mine in the water, however, we could have another Flood of 96. Almost lost the lot of the marinas that year. 

But, my current worry is snow accumulation.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I was back down at my boat today and I had a better camera and a little better light. So I wandered back to that other boat yard to get a closer look at the boat that fell over. I have some much better pictures, and a better idea of what happened.

The boat was definitely up on concrete cinderblocks - bad idea. You can see evidence that the mast got pushed to starboard, and the blocks fell to port due to torque on the mast. It makes me really glad I dropped the mast on my boat. I did it because I wanted to do some upgrades on the masthead over the winter, but I think I'll drop it every year now that I've built a gin pole.

And contrary to what I said before, you can see unpainted spots where the pads had been - and the new grey paint in the edges of the pads. So it's possible this guy had not moved the stands.

FYI, the registration sticker on the boat expired March 2010, so this would appear to be a restoration job.























































I had previously suggested that the stands were extended up too far. You can see by the position of the cam screw that this is not the case here.










Since I had more time to look around, I checked out some of the neighboring boats and saw lots of examples of poor practices - concrete blocks under the keels, stands too small for the height, and insufficient number of stands. I am SO GLAD that I decided to go elsewhere to store my boat:


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Unbelievable.

The last pic with the sea ray is an accident waiting to happen, 4 jack stands??? Concrete blocks??? WTF


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## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

On the bright side, perhaps there's an insurance company out there that now will complete the refit. Lemons into lemonade!


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

I noticed the cinder blocks under the keel were stacked three high, so she was really up in the air. That couldn't have helped. 

I saw this as I was heading down to check on my boat today. I was feeling pretty good that my yard did it right -- then I saw MaineSail's post...


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

It always made/makes me nervous to be in a boat on the hard...

This thread does not help me in my fear... scary stuff.

What is the correct method to make sure you never fall over (I'm looking for consensus here)?


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## TerralTheSeeker (Feb 23, 2008)

That just bites. I don't know about other people, but to me a boat evokes the same kind of emotions as, well, PEOPLE - when I see one neglected, hurt, or abused, I feel sad about it.

Sailboats are people, too.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Maine Sail said:


> ...I don't know what else could have been done differently in this case as everything was done by the book by a very knowledgeable yard. The only difference between this boat and all the other mast up boats is that this one faced beam to the prevailing winter winds and the others faced bow or stern to..


FYI, the boat that I showed fell down toward the north, i.e., was apparently blown over by a southerly gust. That seems an unusual direction, but the river is to the south, which could have provided an unobstructed fetch.

My boat happens to be pointed toward the south, with pretty high trees to not far to the west. As a result I got a lot of leaves on the boat before I covered it, but the trees probably do a good job of knocking down the westerly winds.


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