# 1970 Morgan 40



## Sailmachine (Jul 29, 2009)

Can someone tell me about this boat. There is one for sale on sailboat traider for $20K. There are severial reasons it cought my eye. First I really don't know the brand names yet and was looking for what I thought was a full keel, and its easer to see when a boat is on the hard. Also I have set my purchase price to less then $40K. And as some would say heavy is better, at 20 tons this thing should be great. But the more I read I am starting to wonder about this boat or morgans in general. Also it seams I can get a lot more boat for not much more money.


----------



## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

OK, it sounds like your first boat purchase. Remember that boat maintenance goes up exponentially with size. So a 40 foot boat will cost a LOT more to maintain than a 30 and that will cost a lot more than a 20. What are your plans for the boat you want. You say you want a full keel, so I would have to think crossing oceans is important. You need to state your purpose to get any good advice. a 40 footer is a big first boat, not that it could not be done, but it is really big. 
The Morgan will be older, and will certainly need some work. It is unlikely to be set up for short handed sailing. So you will need to have a few folks with you who know what they are doing to take it out. And if you are talking about the one in Richmond Virgina

1970 Morgan In-island 40 for sale in Richmond, VA: Ketch - SailboatTraderOnline.com

Forget it! Look at that stove! I would not step on that thing it is a bomb waiting to go off! Anyone who thinks that is a propane stove that works I would doubt the rest of his "engineering" not only is that dangerous, it would make the boat un-insurable as I believe all modifications have to meet some sort of safety. He also closed off all the thru hulls? This guy does not know what he is doing. He claims "I am a trans-Atlantic solo sailor, both ways, internationally published furniture craftsman." His cabinetry work is not very high, looks like he just tore out what was there. not much improvement. There is not even a cover for the engine. A real shame as it looked to be a really nice boat once.

You will spend at least 3 times the purchase price to get it in good shape.


----------



## Sailmachine (Jul 29, 2009)

Miatapaul,

I agree with everything you have said. I am looking for my second boat. And I have just started looking. I have no intention of buying the first boat I look at. I have set the length to between 35 and 40 ft. Live aboard primary use with blue water sailing the end goal. 

My first sailboat has been a '79 Macgregor 22. I completely refinished it over the winter and have been sailing it as much as I can this summer. But its small and I am limited where i can take it. But its fun never the less. I am looking for a boat that I can spend about one year making minor repair and upgrades, and then move onto it. Live aboard and sail on weekends, with the possibility of making longer travels if time ever permits. I want to pay cash for the boat so the purchase price will need to be less then $40k. From what I have seen it should not be to hard to get a good boat in that price range.

If I had this boat, the stove would be the first to go. But like you say, the stove is a good indication of the rest of this guys handy work. I don't understand the water jugs and what looks to be a diesel tank. Should the diesel be more out of the way. I would consider this boat to be gutted and have No Interior. 

The boat itself looks to be in good condition. the question is would this boat ever be worth anything? Again I have no intention of taking this on, I am just looking at whats out there.


----------



## Sailmachine (Jul 29, 2009)

I have heard through the grape vine that this boat was struck by lightning and sank. Which explains why there is no interior. Just for my own knowledge, can anyone speculate on what damage may have been done by the lightning to cause it to take on water. Also what type of damage would come about from sinking.


----------



## Bellamar (Apr 1, 2009)

If your good a joinery, buy the boat. Morgan's are hated by all except for those of us that have been in major storms with them. We just sold Bellamar a '89 Classic in absolutely premium condition. The boat sailed to Cuba, around Cuba, down to Grenada and up and down another 5 times. We rounded capes, sailed off shore for up to 4 days, encountered tropical depressions to numerous to count and two Hurricanes (Dennis and Emily) The boat was in St. David's Grenada and never budged in 110 knots as the eye approached. 

I showered off-shore with almost unlimited water, motorsailed around Cabo Beatta when the wind was from two directions and the sea from three. Morgan's are sound boats, with great lay-outs and tankage. There is however very little stowage on deck. We loved the boat and now miss her. We have Beneteau 400, nice, easy to handle but I don't know about how she would have handle Cabo Corrientes, Beatta, Mona (3 times) and the of course Dennis and Emily.

Look for something that fits your short list. If you can cobble together a great interior in the few years that you prepare for the voyage, the Morgan will serve you well. I think however, the price of the one that you are looking at is 5K more than what I would pay, and the first thing that I would get rid of is the propane tank below. Set your criteria and follow it. If a gutted boat doesn't scare, the Morgan brand certainly shouldn't either.


----------



## fullkeel7 (Apr 16, 2008)

SM... The guy with the 1970 40' Morgan tried to sell that boat twice on Ebay...no hits. Not even a $1.00 bid...ZIP. That boat has had every ounce of engineering hacked out of it to the point it would NEVER pass any kind of CG inspection. The ONLY thing that will help that hulk is a chainsaw and a flat-bed truck to haul it off! Geez!


----------



## Bellamar (Apr 1, 2009)

Without seeing the boat of course you might be right. A lot of work, and I suppose a good high 70's or low 1980's Morgan would probably go for 60 - 75K. It would make a fitting reef somewhere.


----------



## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

If the sail are OK AND the engine runs well AND the hull is sound with no delamination then it is a sound basis for an offshore boat. Is it worth 20 K hmm maybe try 10k th begin with. SHow him dollar bills if you can. Old motor trader bottom feeder trick. Count out the money on the roof that you are prepared to offer then start putting it away. 

I would not be that bothered about the stove layout providing the bottle is well secured. Kiss principal and you could turn it off at the bottle everytime.

However do not underestimate the time required to do woodwork inside a boat. Nothing is square and you will spend a lot of time fitting and cutting. Still it is doable and with cheap plywood and household paint should not cost a fortune. You do not need a chart plotter or radar or an integrated autopilot. A windvane, handheld GPS and VHF will do nicely.


----------



## Bellamar (Apr 1, 2009)

I flew Hot Air Balloons for 10 years as a business....please do not ever coach anyone to keep a propane bottle in the cabin. We want people to stay alive to enjoy the sail and to shop at Sailnet. LOL If the pressure valve ever went, it would fill the boat with enough vapour to be a problem. I looked at the photo's again thinking that it might be natural gas but it is propane. Never in the cabin.


----------



## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I had not thought about a regulator leak. Still If you turn the bottle off the regulator is out of the picture. 

Most people have the gas piped in to the cabin using a hidden pipe with connections and leave it on all the time. If the pipe cracks or the connection leaks you still have a cabin full of gas. 

I agree it is unconventional and that any surveyor will condemm it BUT I just wonder how bad a layout it really is.


----------



## Bellamar (Apr 1, 2009)

TQA said:


> I had not thought about a regulator leak. Still If you turn the bottle off the regulator is out of the picture.


It's not the same thing. The idea behind keeping the bottle in a dedicated locker with bottom drain for fumes outside the boat is to prevent the "pressure Relief Valve" from opening and blowing vapour into the cabin. This valve is independent of the regular valve and can open without regard to it's setting. If this happens, there is nothing one can do until the pressure in the tank drops.

In your scenario, with a leak in one of the hoses, it will only leak the limited vapour that is in the hose, either from the tank valve or from wear your electronic solenoid sits.

This is a huge difference in volume. For the Morgan we purchased a sealed locker for the starbrd stern and plumbed the lines forward. All of the propane in the lines would not have caused an explosion, as the mixture has to be (I think) around 4 - 7%. If a Pressure Relief Valve blows, the amount is unlimited that can exscape because the liquid in the tank boils off to keep the pressure up and the valve open.


----------



## Sailmachine (Jul 29, 2009)

I did not want to get too caught up with the propane here. But your right, propane tanks will vent off extra pressure under normal circumstances. Maybe it was over filled or even a change in temperature. Either way you don't want that venting into the cabin.

The owner says the he ran the motor for about 20 seconds and seamed fine. But I would assume that its toast from the sinking. He also says that the sails are in usable condition. Which I would take as minimal and not adding any value. Even if the hull were solid, and most of the rigging and hardware were there, how much could a boat like this be worth.


----------



## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Sails are easy lots of used stuff around main and headsail in reasonable condition would cost less than $2k.

If the engine is toast then what are you going to do. Assuming it is a Perkins 4-108 then you are looking at $5k for a cheap rebuild or a s/h unit if you fit it yourself. $20k for a pro rebuild with gtee fitted for you. I have just researched this in Florida as one of the boats I was looking at needed and engine. 

HOWEVER the Perkins 4-108 is an old tractor engine and is a tuffy. If it has been started and run since the sinking then there is a pretty good chance there is nothing much wrong with it. Assuming it had the oil changed and was run long enough to clear any water out of the injection system. 

Ask the owner to remove the raw water impellor and start it up for you if it shows 40lbs plus oil pressure does not knock and runs with little smoke after clearing the initial start up smoke then it might well be good. Do not run it for too long though if there are rubber parts in the exhaust system!


----------



## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Well his installation does save the price of a solenoid valve.....
Seriously, the whole interior looks suspect. If you're prepared to spend time and money rebuilding the interior and systems and it passes a survey without any real issues I would offer 10k tops. And that includes an engine survey. As far as propane goes the tank MUST be in a locker sealed from the boat's interior that vents overboard and the line (flexible propane hose) to each appliance MUST be continuous with no joins or connections outside of the propane locker. I use propane daily and have on several different boats. I think it's the best fuel for a marine stove but it must be installed properly and used properly. Having seen (and heard) one propane explosion that destroyed an rv early one morning I respect this excellent fuel.
Brian


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Has anyone else noticed there aren't any bulkheads left in that boat? Does the swing keel work or did he glass that over? And all that water must be carried out in buckets? Bilge water too? There's $50k in work needed before I'd take the thing anywhere but the dump.

With the joke propane stove, I wonder if the harbor master knows what's aboard? It's hazardous to anyone even in the vicinity. It isn't a boat. It's a collection of flammable material waiting for an ignition source (also called a bomb).


----------



## Sailmachine (Jul 29, 2009)

I did some more digging on this boat. I came across the ebay listing where he tells a little more about it. ebay 270389890947. There he tells about removing the bulkheads and adding a hatch. These hull modification are what make this boat unsellable in my mind. It really is too bad because I would not mind finding a boat that was complete minus an interior. I would enjoy redoing an interior while still being able to sail. There are some more pictures in the ebay listing and the outside of the hull looks not to bad. Some over spray on the bottom but that the least of the problems. I have not seen any indication that the Morgan 40 ever had a swing keel. Do you know for sure that it did? I would bet this boat will never see water again.


----------



## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I think too that he has ruined the interior (or whole boat). Here's a comparison of 2 Morgan 40s. See next post for how it should be.


----------



## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Intact Morgan 40: Notice in addition to bulkheads and scary stove, he's installed a large tank (fuel ?) aft of the settee to port.


----------

