# What is the lightest wind I can sail in?



## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

*Scott's running questions thread.*

I've been looking at the wind for the last couple day and right now it's 2. I just bought a boat in Washington and it often had light wind. The only other sailing I've done was in Hawaii and there was always wind if at least 10. 365 days.

So I have a 150, and my boat ha a load of ballast. What is the lightest wind I should o out in and make old headway?


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## Philzy3985 (Oct 20, 2012)

your profile says you have a ranger 23. In case anyone else is wondering.

Probably wouldn't be interesting without at least consistent 6k winds or higher. At least with steady 6k winds you could patiently trim your sails and still move in a direction.

keep the engine ready to fire up if you sail in a tight area. Otherwise prepare to feel like you're "waiting" for things to change.


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## IslanderGuy (Apr 26, 2008)

Also, there are lots of currents in the PNW. Assuming your in the Puget Sound somewhere? If you get a 2 - 4 knot wind on the beam while sailing with a 2 knot current, it can feel like your getting somewhere... slowly... but can be relaxing. Turn against the current (or have it turn against you) and you aren't going anywhere (but maybe backwards)


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

This is a friend's blog post about sailing from Shilshole to Poulsbo in close to zero winds using the currents:
Bob Hall's Blog: Sailing to Poulsbo

His 30' boat is motorless and much heavier (10,000lbs vs 3,400lbs) than yours, to give you context.

I find that we could get the Catalina 25 moving at about just under half the speed of the wind pretty easily (so 1.5 to 2 knots in 4 knots of wind). We've sailed it in 2mph winds and the boat moves along, but it's not too exciting. There are tricks to learn for light air sailing, such as sitting on the leeward side to put shape into the sails when the wind won't do it for you. Also try using the topping lift to lift the boom if your main sail is too flat. Learn how to adjust the jib cars for the same purpose. The Catalina has a new main sail, which helps, but a very heavy genoa, which hurts.

My Pearson doesn't move quite as easily in light airs, but we can get her moving too. Mostly it's harder to force shape into the sails by moving body weight around since the boat weighs 7000lbs instead of 4000lbs.

If you need to get somewhere sometimes you'll just need to motor. Last year I sailed in one direction across the Strait with 15-20knot sustained winds and made great time. In the other direction we had pure glass water and mostly motored.

I'm going sailing on Lake Union this afternoon in very light air, and really looking forward to it. It's not as fun as sailing in 15 knot winds, but it's still a lot of fun. I have a greater sense of accomplishment in making a boat move nicely in light air than I do in sailing the boat in 10kt winds (when everything is easy).

If you have nothing better to do then get out on the water and enjoy it. People pay lots of money to sit outside in the sun on a private island. You can do it anytime you want.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

It really depends on how patient you are, and how well prepared your boat is. My area gets a lot of light wind, so as a racer I became a bit of a light air specialist. I am anal about making sure my bottom is smooth and clean, and my foils are fair. I have a folding prop, and make sure it works properly. For me, it is rare that there is not enough wind to sail. If there is a ripple on the water, then there is plenty of wind. Of course that is in an area where there is little or no chop when there is no wind. If there are waves, then you need a bit more breeze.

The one thing about sailing in light air is that you will almost certainly become a better sailor because every little thing you do in terms of sail and boat trim will have a significant impact on your boatspeed. You learn to pay attention to every detail on the boat, as well as on the waters around you. 

My cousin was visiting from out of town, and he really wanted to get out on the water with his son. We went out even though the waters were glassy calm. Even then there was enough breeze aloft ti keep us moving at a couple of knots. We had a wonderful time enjoying the wildlife, and conversation while I tweaked and adjusted the boat from puff to puff. The only negative thing was all the power boats that cfelt the need to cut close across our bow to show us how fast they are, killing all of our hard earned boatspeed with their wake.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Well

IF you have a steady 2 knot wind you can go UPWIND fairly well as the apparent wind will build to the 4+ knot range

However if you have to go back downwind 2 knots of true wind will pretty much become ZERO apparent wind 

We try and avoid days like that BUT if we are out i will just beam reach back and forth in the same area as it tends to be freaking hot around here on days like that


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

It's all about how fast you want to sail. My little C&C will waft along quite happily at 2-3 knots in 3-4 knots of wind. Fine if you aren't fighting a current (rare), or have somewhere to get to. Downwind, well, you'll be drifting at a knot, maybe 2 at best.
You'll probably find that your 150 is too heavy for really light air, I would go with a smaller or lighter sail.
I generally find that the stinkpotters ruin any really light air days here, it's no fun just getting her moving to then get turned around by some douche in a Bayliner cutting across your bow.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

tommays said:


> Well
> 
> IF you have a steady 2 knot wind you can go UPWIND fairly well as the apparent wind will build to the 4+ knot range
> 
> ...


The thing about light wind, is that there is no such thing as running. If you want to get down wind you have to reach, and use your apparent wind and puffs to go deeper when you can. Once you start to get soft, you have to heat back up to keep the boat moving. It definitely helps if you don't care which direction you sail in, because then you just go wherever the wind takes you.

As far as sail inventory goes, if the 150 is too heavy it might not fly very well when it is REALLY light. I have an extremely light staysail we call the "windseeker" AKA the "drifter" that will fly and maintain shape in the softest zephyrs, and allow you to find the wind and get the boat moving, although these days if it is that soft and I'm not racing I don't bother with it! If the sail is to heavy to fly it helps to heel the boat quite a bit to leeward so that the sails will at least hang in a foil shape until you get moving faster and build your apparent.

Racing in light air takes a great deal of concentration. I have come off the water after a light race feeling just as mentally exhausted as if it were blowing 20!


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I've come off of light day races way more mentally tired than heavy air. THe heavy air races will make my more physically tired tho!

I would also agree with schock, in that if you truly want to sail in calm winds per say, ie under 3-5 knots, a really light sailcloth jib helps. Ihave a 130 that is made of 3oz nylon spin cloth. THis sail gets me moving when my 150 string will not! If I can not get going with a string styl 155, I could not imagine what would happen with a basic dacron sail in thos conditions........

If out having fun, no big, if racing or trying to get somewhere. better to have another light sail when racing in your bag of goodies per say, or the iron genny if trying to get somewhere, especially if here in the salish sea area.

Marty


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

The forecast for our after work sailing on Lake Union was 3mph. We had a few gusts that were higher (maybe up to 6mph) and a lot of time when it wasn't even 3mph. We still did a couple laps of the lake, I taught the boat's owner the best way that we've figured out to do spinnaker launches, and had a great time with the other 5 or 6 boats that were out there.

As for currents, the best trick is to use them, not to try and sail against them. You live in a great place to practice this. Play with deepzoom.com and look at what the currents are doing near you, then figure out a day trip that lets you take the best advantage of them. You can probably do a lap of Marrowstone Island even in almost still air just by leaving at the right time on Friday.

When you do go north you want to catch the ebb leaving Port Townsend, time it so that slack occurs as you are about midway, and then ride max flood into Cattle Pass. That gives you a 3 knot boost into the San Juans without any extra work. I don't care if the wind is heavy or light, you need to pay attention to the currents.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

Useful: Incense sticks, very light shroud tell tales, and keeping a really close out on the water for puffs, and on the rig to see if the wind aloft is any different than near the surface.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

We were becalmed for 7 days in the Indian Ocean.

So take the boat out in any level of light conditions and learn to sail in them and enjoy them.

Same thing racing.... You can't pick the weather so if you can't sail light airs you lose!


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I've got that Washburn/current tables book combo for help with currents too. 

I didn't know the big sail would be too heavy. My 130 is way lighter. The 150 is for light air but not really light air? And the 130 being a lighter sail is for super light and then again for medium air?

Yesterday turned out well. Most of the time it was at least 4-6, sometimes 8. I was moving really well 

Alternately, what is the highest wind I should intentionally sail in? At what point is it tok dangerous or hard on the boat to not e worth it if I'm not caught in it or have to get somewhere?

Today there is a small craft advisory or the next two days. It's rainy, and yet the end is very light. Forecast is for 15-25. I want to sail, I bee to get my foul weather ear on an play I. The light rain, but don't want to get caught in anything bad. I could stay in the protected bay, or just not go. In Hawaii it was often 15-25 with pounding waves an I went, but it was familiar and a stable trade wind, I'm not sure about here. If its just going to be windy and I should look forward to these days, or if this means a storm is coming and to stay at dock. 

Surprisingly this harbor is pretty dead. So there's not a lot I people I can ask. On the sunny days there were a few people, but really there are not many people doing stuff, walking I and fro, going out the harbor entrance. Not a busy harbor at least not yet. There is dry dock work being done, but not many boats going out day to day. Very surprising. I thought there would be more bustle.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Wait for a race day, there should be a lot of traffic in the marina. Shilshole is pretty quiet until there is a race, then everyone is out.

How much is too much depends on your comfort and the boats rigging. 15-25 should be more than fine, just reef and use a small headsail. Above 25 knots sustained is where I begin to have less fun. 20 knots sustained is lots of fun.

Stay close so you can easily duck back into the marina. Stay south instead of north and you'll generally be a lot more protected (obviously not true in a rare NE wind).

Do you know about this webpage:
Washington State Ferry Weather

It will show you recently measured wind speeds from the area ferries.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

What is the working load and breaking load of the block I should use for the front reef on my main? The system they had doubled with the Cunningham and I am makin them separate.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I used these on the Catalina 25 (Harken 40mm carbo blocks). I'm using the 57s on my Pearson:
Harken

Harken also has calculators to help you figure out likely loads.

I don't understand how someone combined the cunningham and front reef. Does your boom have a reefing hook?


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I just set refit it but different. It's like this. 

The main has two holes. A downhaul and a reef. 

A line is tied to the mast step and run up to a block that has a reef hook. To either hook to the downhaul or reef. 

Then that is run down from the sail to a block at the mast step and then back over the deck to the cockpit for single handing. 

I guess it makes sense now that I have reset it. But before it ran through a very ok and poor 4:1 system. Now I put new blocks, but its a 2:1


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Your front reef/cunningham sounds like what I have. Then I have single lines only thru the boom to tie the leech end of the sail down to the boom. This can be a good way, but also a hassle vs trying to single line the whole thing. 

Yeah it was light up in PT, at least when I was there in the 1-2 range. Is your boat yellow? A-B dock? I saw a yellow R23 on the water side of the first dock bow in.

In the bay itself, higher winds should not be too big a deal as far as waves go. But if you go east towards whidbey, the waves will get bigger. I was in some 3-5 foot steeper swells a few yrs ago, 14' ebb against a mid 20 knot wind out of the north. THe wind was kicking up the waves, then the current against it.....yee haw! yeah right! Took an hour to go about 2 miles motoring with the waves, against the current, and that was with water speeds into the low 7's surfing the waves per say! It can get interesting up that way! Especially if you see 4+ knot currents at Bush point as it was that day! I made it to Fishermans bay on Lopez in 6 hrs from Edmonds 4 days before WITH the current no wind, almost 9-10 hrs home to do 60 miles! The current can kill you around here!

marty


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Not mine. I'm closer to the breakwall. Grey boat. Ill have k go take a look at te other boat and compare.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Cool. I haven't seen a setup like that which allows you to move it from the cunningham to the reef cringle, but it sounds like it would work. It's a little weird to have to go to the mast to move the hook between the two positions while the rest of the reefing is setup in the cockpit, but I guess you can try to plan ahead.

How is the clew side of the reefing configured?


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

The clew goes through the back of the boom and cleats off. 

Actually. I've been working on it and thinking about it a lot and I changed it back to a 4:1. I think I'll need it when it gets strong. 

And. If I think I may have to reef that day, instead of using the cunningham I can put the reef hook through the reef cringe when I leave and then If I need to reef I can do it all from the cockpit. 

Maybe at some point I will make a dedicated cunny/reef. But I think that the time I will have I reef will be so few and far eternal with summer coming that it should rarely be an issue. 

Glad I didn't go out today by the way. 

Also I saw the yellow ranger and that is a kent ranger 24


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

You could also put a reefing hook on the front of the boom. Then all of the reefing is at the mast (with the clew line on the boom) and it's very straightforward. You can have a dedicated cunningham setup. Reefing hooks are only about $5. That would be this type of slab reefing:
http://www.classicboat.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Sail-corner.jpg

We had a 2:1 mechanical advantage for reefing on the Catalina 25, and it wasn't an issue. You are luffed up when reefing, so there isn't much load on the sail.

Sometimes you need reefing in the summer too. This was taken in August:









That photo was taken about an hour north of you and we're reefed, with the working jib, rail almost in the water. Looks like we could have used more jib halyard tension. Later on that afternoon we did 9 knots through Cattle Pass by hitting the max flood with good wind.

Do you have the tall mast or standard?


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Standard mast. Nice photo.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Oops,
Thought the 24 was the 23 style. So you have the one with the more typical cabin look, and what was the true 1/4 ton version. A neaghbor had one of those styles growing up on Lk Wa. 

I'll have to look around some if I make it up that way next week.

A single line/reef hook in the front works well overall. I let the halyard down, you can mark it once set with a whip or a sharpie marking pen. Then pull the reef hook, then clew tight, then tighten the halyard up. I also take my boom lift, and pull the boom up some, this allows me to get the clew pretty tight tothe boom end. Otherwise, if you donot pull the boom up some, one cannot always tighten the clew enough. THisis my experienc, yours and others may vary.

Marty


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

You can come say hi and check out my boat and give me pointers if you have the time. What do you do for a living?

If you have a loose footed main should the reef point tie around the sail or the sail and boom? Are sail ties good or reef points? I had heard they were or I can always get some line. They are currently empty.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Shi it. I've got the strongest wind in the sound right now according to the ferry page. 26 with stronger puffs. Peaceful sleeping though. I like sleeping on a rocking boat.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Reef points should only go around the sail. They aren't reinforced, so if your reefing line suddenly gave way and they were tied around the boom you would tear your sail at all of those holes. You just want light line in there (any 3/16" or 1/4" scrap is fine). It's optional too, it makes everything tidier but isn't necessary.

Marty: He has a Gary Mull Ranger, not a Kent, WA Ranger. I think it's a much cooler boat.


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## SailingJackson (Jan 1, 2011)

*Re: Scott's running questions thread.*



northoceanbeach said:


> I've been looking at the wind for the last couple day and right now it's 2. I just bought a boat in Washington and it often had light wind. The only other sailing I've done was in Hawaii and there was always wind if at least 10. 365 days.
> 
> So I have a 150, and my boat ha a load of ballast. What is the lightest wind I should o out in and make old headway?


I think the key to having fun in light wind is different sails. A flat cut asymmetrical like Doyle APC or a code 0 made all the difference on my boat. Other people would be headed home under motor while we were going back and forth on a beam reach.

Light air sailing is actually pretty instructive. If you do anything wrong or even rock the boat, everything seems to come to a stop. Get it tuned just right and you'll see boat speed climbing very slowly. If your sails are blown and out of shape, forget it.

GJ


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## ajoliver (Feb 23, 2007)

For light air lots of folks also use very light genoa sheets - big fat strong ones weigh enough to adversely affect sail shape. Same goes for spin sheets. 
It's fun and challenging to sail and race in very light air. We often get dying breezes on Sandusky Bay and wind up racing in 1 kt of wind or even less. Sometimes we can only go a boat length (26') per minute. We have to watch the bubbles in the water to see if we are moving at all. And if you find an adverse current - fuggetaboutit. 
But boats that keep moving can make big gains, and sometimes beat (boat-for-boat) much larger lower rated (ie., faster) racers. That is fun. 
And yes, it does take a lot of concentration. Once the boat stops, it's hard as hell to get it moving again.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I do have big heavy jib sheets. I took the 130 in light air today and even in almost nothing it still held its shape nicely.

I think I will forego installing lines in the points. I have lazy jacks and the sail practically flakes itself. Lazy jacks are the best thing ever. When I practiced reefing today the sail laid so nicely against the boom. 

Any advice on if I should move the jib cars(?) fore or aft for lighter wind?


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Jib cars in light days want to be a bit forward, heavy days more aft. Centered per say is usually the halfway point on the luff, with a line drawn thru the clew. I literally have black sharpie lines that are about 2-3' long at this line, so we can easily see if the carrs are correct, what is forward vs aft in any given wind condition.

Marty


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

On really light days (like 3mph of wind) we'll move the jib cars aft again. The sail will sit flat enough under it's own weight and moving them aft keeps the leech open. It's the equivalent of moving the traveller up wind in really light days to avoid over flattening the leech on the main.


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