# Looking for a boat of live aboard



## Hanmo Gao (Jun 23, 2015)

I am currently living in Berkeley California. I am thinking about buying a boat to live aborard. I am checking a Santana 28 for about $6000. What is the thing I need to check before I buy a boat.
Thanks


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I think the first thing to check is the availability of a dock in a marina that allows liveaboards in the area where you live. This can be a real problem in some areas since many marinas do not allow liveaboards and some that do have long waiting lists. Once you have secured dockage (you know the size of dock you need and a boat around 30 feet can be accommodated on most docks), you can start the serious boat shopping. I can't comment on the boat you mention but there are lots of suitable boats to choose from. A good starting place would be a Catalina 30 or 27 depending on your budget.


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## Hanmo Gao (Jun 23, 2015)

Thanks Killarney
I think the dock issue had been solved. The real question is I dont know what to check when it comes to a boat? When people say it need a bottom job, how much it usually cost? Something like that. What should I do before I buy a boat? hire a hull diver to check it out or sth?
Thanks


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## azul (Feb 22, 2000)

There are many things you must check on the boat. Mast step, is it solid, chain plate attachments - are they leaking and are the tangs solid to the attachment point. Are the bulkheads still attached to the hull with the fiberglass tabbing - What motor does it have and is it serviceable. Basically all systems on the boat including water, electrical.... you get the point. Santana made nice boats in its day and were noted for there sailing performance. They sailed well. Not really intended for live aboard but that is a personal choice. Bottom job is just what is the condition of the bottom and the best way to check that is to have the boat hauled out for inspection. Check the keel attachment to the boat. Check for delamination of the fiberglass layers. 
There are a lot of Catalina 30s out there and would be a much better choice for life aboard. Lots of room in 30 feet, decent sailing. Again you must check all the above on any boat you are considering. If you can find someone that knows boat to come with you as you look that would be good
Good luck
I have lived aboard a Bristol 29 and last my C&C 36, love the life


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## Hanmo Gao (Jun 23, 2015)

Hi Azul
The only way I am looking for a boat is through craiglist. Do you know anyplace other than craiglist I can look for a decent boat? or people can help you do the survey before you buy the boat?
Thanks
P.S I love this community
Hanmo


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## Hanmo Gao (Jun 23, 2015)

Moreover, I think the main sail cannt be fully up. Is that a quick fix or lot of money fix?


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## Hanmo Gao (Jun 23, 2015)

Here goes the bigger picture


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Read the Stickey on Boat Inspection Tips in the Boat Purchase and Review Forum.


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## oldfurr (Dec 25, 2012)

Hanmo Gao said:


> The only way I am looking for a boat is through craiglist. Do you know anyplace other than craiglist I can look for a decent boat?
> 
> Hanmo


 As you seem to have internet access here are a few examples of the many types of places you might look online for boats in your area:
Boats for Sale - New and Used Boats and Yachts - YachtWorld.com
Sailboats | eBay
sailboats for sale
California sailboats for sale by owner.
Boats for Sale - Buy Boats, Sell Boats, Boating Resources, Boat Dealers, Parts and Accessories - BoatTrader.com
Berkeley Marina Lien Sales - City of Berkeley, CA
Google AND OTHER search engine used with search terms related to what you want will reveal many others. Don't forget the classified advertisement sections of local newspapers, even if you can not track them down to purchase at a newsstand and they are not available online the papers themselves can be examined at any major library in the bay area.

I think the best thing you can do if you have the time & transportation available is to walk the docks in your area's marinas and talk to the marina residents, users, lay-abouts and operators.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Don't forget yachtworld.com. WHile most of their listings are higher $, there are some in your ballpark.
Find a decent surveyor to check the boat out for you. It won't be cheap, but it could save you thousands in repairs. Look at NAMS or SAMS for surveyors in your area. Those are the 2 main certification organizations for marine surveyors.

Agree with above...Look at Catalina 27's and 30's.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Have the boat surveyed by a professional - this can save you a lot of grief!

Gary


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

You might want to check with the dock master of your marina to see what the minimum allowable boat lengths are for full time LB's, my marina has a minimum of 36' but this varies among locations.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

There are books, and web sites, on how to do your own boat surveying and how to look for problems in old boats and how to fix them.

This is like buying a very cheap, very old, very used car from some guy you've never met before. Expect that if you don't know anything about boats, you may get lucky, or you may spend 2x to 4x the purchase price in having things fixed. For instance, if the boat springs a leak and sinks? You now have to pay to have it refloated and removed, pay for environmental cleanup, and pay for repair or more likely, disposal. 

Not to be a pessimist, but you REALLY want to make sure of what you are getting into, before you buy one.


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## Hanmo Gao (Jun 23, 2015)

Thanks Sailor!
Almost got the Santana 28, but the owner sold it to other after I asked for permission for a survey. So it might be a good thing. Thanks community! Super helpful.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Hanmo Gao said:


> Thanks Sailor!
> Almost got the Santana 28, but the owner sold it to other after I asked for permission for a survey. So it might be a good thing. Thanks community! Super helpful.


Thing with a survey is they are going to be close to a grand(about $20 a foot + sea trial and possibly mileage multiple times to get there). So on a boat like a Santana 28 it might be overkill depending on price. For some inexpensive boats you almost have to take your chances. It really depends on your personal level of risk. If you can take the financial loss you might not want to have it done. But on the other hand just the mention of a survey can weed out some offers. The issue is your ability to look at what might be wrong with the boat, you might want to find a friend who knows SAIL boats (they have very different issues from power boats) to help look it over if you are not going to have it surveyed. Another thing is if you plan on having full coverage insurance they may require it anyway so you might as well have the survey done. So it is a complicated issue.

There are lots of other boats out there, so don't worry. Remember it is far cheaper to buy a boat in good shape than to fix one up that needs lots of work. (in general)


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Paul, the survey of my Morgan 33 was just $495 and very, very extensive, comprehensive and accurate. I saved a lot of money on the asking price by having it done. Granted, I still spent a fair amount on the repairs, but that money was an investment in the boat's safety and longevity.

Gary


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

travlineasy said:


> Paul, the survey of my Morgan 33 was just $495 and very, very extensive, comprehensive and accurate. I saved a lot of money on the asking price by having it done. Granted, I still spent a fair amount on the repairs, but that money was an investment in the boat's safety and longevity.
> 
> Gary


Yes, but the only Santana 28 I found is listed for $2,000 so even at $495 you are talking 25% of the listing price (and likely 50% of the sale price) of the boat. On a more complicated and bigger boat I completely agree. But for a simple small boat likely with an outboard I think having someone you know help go over it would be sufficient. Heck re-powering will cost $2500. For me anything under $7-10,000 is going to likely be self survey as i am going to only have liability insurance anyway. Get over $10 grand or so, or a complicated boat that I know will need some big projects to help get an idea of total cost of the boat sure.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

If the boat has an outboard, it might be okay not to have a survey, but only if the person that looks it over for your is VERY knowledgeable. If there's water penetration in the deck, do you know how to fix it? If the mast step is bad, and your friend missed it, will they fix it for you? 

Even a free boat can be a money pit. You'd be wise to have any boat that's big enough for you to live on it, surveyed. You're hearing this over and over from us because WE KNOW....oops I'm shouting. 

Not only should you have it surveyed, you should take great care in choosing the best surveyor you can find, and if possible, be there for the survey. 

Example: You asked about a bottom job. My 28' boat costs me about $150.00 each year to paint it myself. But the bottom on my boat is in excellent condition and very smooth. What if the boat you buy has 16 layers of mystery paint on it, is rough, and needs to be taken down to gelcoat. Or worse. Do you scrape it, remove it chemically (assuming the marina will allow you to use either of these methods yourself), or do you hire someone to soda blast the bottom at considerable expense. And who knows if they'll find something nasty after they get it down to bare glass. 

There's a good chance you'll spend the bucks for a good survey, and you'll reject the boat because demons are found. Yes, you'll be out the money for the survey, which is painful. However, you'll be saved the much greater pain of buying a boat that could eat you alive.


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## Hanmo Gao (Jun 23, 2015)

Siamese, Thanks for shouting! I really need that. I just started to learn about boat, so I need voice to avoid me fall into a money pit! Still looking for a boat around bayarea. I will keep every updated


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Of course, if the boat is IN the water, it has to be hauled for the survey. Either hauled and allowed to hang for a fast "lunch" survey, or hauled and allowed to hang overnight and dropped back in first thing in the morning.

Or, hauled, stored on jackstands (rented or bought) and then relaunched, in order to do a survey and have it out and dry while you're doing the bottom paint. Assuming the yard, county, state, allow you to do that since bottom sanding or scraping is a hazmat regulated activity. $150 worth of bottom paint can be nothing, when there's a $500 haul-block-store-launch job attached to it.

And if the yard doesn't allow DIY work...you'll pay for the bottom painting too.

Surprises for newcomers to boating.


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

Some surveyors will do a "walk through". That costs around $150-$250 and the surveyor will basically just tell you what needs to be replaced and whether it is worth the asking price. No paperwork, no sea trial, just an hour of his/her time.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

If you buy a boat, most marinas will require (as well as it being a good idea) that your boat be insured. Most insurance companies will require a survey before they issue a policy. A quickie walk thru doesn't qualify.


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

One great book that I found very helpful is "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" by Don Casey. It will help you sort through the lemons before landing on one that you'd like to survey. 

It will also help you ask the right questions while observing the survey.

Best,
doo


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## KelevraS (Jun 28, 2015)

Example mate from personal experience, if hauled out to look at the keel, rudder, hull, etc. You might see things even the owner doesn't know, especially in saltwater. For example in extreme cases, if you decide to buy, the fiberglass repair, blister repairs, fairing afterwards, sanding, and painting could potentially bring a bill of about $50/ft. I've done these since February this year and am still getting customers. 
Not only would hiring someone to do this be expensive, but then you have to look at the paints you want to use. I own a Lindenberg 30, and after some slight chemical analysis, I mixed proper portions of racing bronze (epoxy coat) with Trinidad black for my bottom, and the paint alone was about $500... depends on the size and the issues. Leaks are easy to fix, for the most part, gotta check for soft spots in deck, teak repair/ replacing, and if the electrical system is messed up and you don't know how to fix it could run you a decent bit of cash to replace all wiring, panels, circuits, appliances, etc.


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## Hanmo Gao (Jun 23, 2015)

Hello everyone.
Could anyone give some advice on this boat?
Thanks!!!
1974 Cal 29 sailboat for sale in California


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

I think the price is high for a 41 year old boat. My main concern is why all the recent work? If the owner is just one of those anal types that always wants his boat looking good, then you may have found a nice, older boat. On the other hand, if all the recent work is repairing a broken boat, you need to find out what happened to it.


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## Hanmo Gao (Jun 23, 2015)

Got it. The owner got the boat 3 years ago. I assume he had been into a divorce etc lately. What is a normal price range for a 41 years boat?
Thanks Chuck


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

You have to factor in everything. Age, condition, engine (age/hours), how well it has been maintained, lots of electronic goodies and are they up to date or old and obsolete. Sounds like his price is what he paid for it 3 years ago and how much he has spent in repairs, upgrades. Logical in his mind but not in real world. When it comes to boats, you never get back what you put in. Not even close.
From the 3 pictures shown, the boat looks good for its age, but I don't see anything that tells me it should sell for top dollar.
Sailing purists like having all those sails, but most prefer 1 head sail on a roller furling. What is the age and condition of all those sails?

Do your homework and look at other boats that are similar to evaluate the price. Don't be in a rush. Surf the net, walk the docks and boat yards and get a feel for what is out there.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

As Chuck says above that is a lot of money for a 74 boat. 

For about the same you can find a younger Catalina 30 which is a better liveaboard. Look for one with a roller furling jib if you plan to singlehand.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

TQA said:


> As Chuck says above that is a lot of money for a 74 boat.
> 
> For about the same you can find a younger Catalina 30 which is a better liveaboard. Look for one with a roller furling jib if you plan to singlehand.


Totally agree. As a former C30 owner, if you plan on living aboard, it will be hard to find a boat in that size range with the living space of a C30. I think you will be surprised how much more space you will have with a C30 compared to a Cal 29.
Also agree with roller furling.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

In this part of the world, that boat would go for about $7,500 tops. Also, it's way too small to live aboard, even by yourself.

All the best,

Gary


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## Markwesti (Jan 1, 2013)

Yes , but that C29 has a fire burning heater and chimney . One plus on the C 29 is the engine . One bummer for me on it would be the lack of canvas . Like a dodger, weather cloth for the cockpit . A friend of mine lives on his C 29 he is about 6'4" . He says there is to much room on it and he longs for his Columbia 26 that he lost down in La Paz . Of coarse he is a bit eccentric . Mr . easy is right not enough room . But on the other hand only you know what is enough room . I'm interested to know ( and I ask this with respect ) what do you intend to do with your live aboard boat ? I assume you are fairly new to sail boats .


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## Hanmo Gao (Jun 23, 2015)

Yes, just sleep. rarely cooking even. Use my laptop sometimes. Still looking for one. One Pearson 28 for 7k is, one C30 for 10k ish. Both of them are nice


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## Hanmo Gao (Jun 23, 2015)

Also trying to start learning sail with my "condo" in the 8-10 months.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Hanmo Gao said:


> Yes, just sleep. rarely cooking even. Use my laptop sometimes. Still looking for one. One Pearson 28 for 7k is, one C30 for 10k ish. Both of them are nice


Have you actually been on board these 2 boats or just find them on the internet?


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## Hanmo Gao (Jun 23, 2015)

Checked both of the boats. Both are nice. But Do found them on craigslist.


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## Hanmo Gao (Jun 23, 2015)

Too me they are all dry, solid boat. Hauled out recently.


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## rnixon (May 7, 2013)

Hanmo Gao said:


> I am currently living in Berkeley California. I am thinking about buying a boat to live aborard. I am checking a Santana 28 for about $6000. What is the thing I need to check before I buy a boat.


You sound not to have a lot of experience of boats. As this is to be your home, I would certainly pay for a survey. You may need to have a budget for repairs that should be made before living aboard.


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## Tripper 17 (Jul 2, 2015)

I don't know if you can or want to add some part-time work to your current routine. If you get a little work scraping, painting, polishing, etc, it can lead to relationships and opportunities in which you learn a lot about life dockside and aboard, how to sail, how to maintain your boat, real costs, etc. Putting up a notice in the marina where you want to live would be a good start, and also walking the docks and letting people know first-hand that you're available. You could first feel out whether it's really for you, then already be a part of the community before even moving in. Everything above is good advice. Walk the docks, find a boat, _*Get A Survey*_.


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## Tripper 17 (Jul 2, 2015)

Two more thoughts: Take your state's safe boating course or do whatever's required to get your license to operate your boat, which will be regarded as a power boat when run under your auxiliary motor. Also, take a dinghy sailing class so you can really learn how to manage a sailboat in wind and current. A lot of sailors think that most of us learn fastest and best with tiny boats that respond almost instantly to however we handle them. Again, this experience will help you wisely choose a vessel in which to live.


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## FireBird1976 (Oct 9, 2015)

I like to go down to look at boats right after a good rain and check for damp areas. Can't say enough about having a dry boat to live in, not to mention the slow long term damage done by small amounts of water.


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