# Will USCG fly over Cuba airspace?



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Just wondering if USCG can be able fly over the Cuba airspace for a S&R mission on the other side island in Caribbean sea ???


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## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

Not sure about USCG..but we (AA Airlines)flew over Cuba coming back from Cancun last year..


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

dawg, I believe that would be called an "unauthorized military incursion" aka "an act of war" unless the USCG called ahead and asked permission on humanitarian grounds.

Commercial air traffic flying over at 35,000 feet? Very different from helos within stone-throwing distance.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Yeah, that sucks. Cuba is a big island, flying around takes a long time. 

It is about time that U.S. should change its policy towards Cuba. I heard lot of good things from those who have visited there. I want to sail over there. Last year, I was just less than 1.5 nm from Cabo San Antonio, very quiet and desolate.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Commercial flights go over Cuba all the time.
Fly to Grand Cayman from Miami and you go right over the island. Pretty amazing view from up there. The spine of the island is a mountainous jungle.
Not certain about CG helos but I'm sure CG aircraft can transit the airspace. Why would Cuba object to US hurricane hunter aircraft?

As for "unauthorized military incursion" what about Guantanamo Bay???
Our military flies there all the time.


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## paradiselostparrot (Apr 16, 2013)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_International_Civil_Aviation

Convention on International Civil Aviation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Commercial Air routes are controlled by treaty.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

There are Coasties based at Guantanamo, but I doubt they are rescue.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

rockDAWG said:


> Yeah, that sucks. Cuba is a big island, flying around takes a long time.
> 
> It is about time that U.S. should change its policy towards Cuba. I heard lot of good things from those who have visited there. I want to sail over there. Last year, I was just less than 1.5 nm from Cabo San Antonio, very quiet and desolate.


Yes, Cuba is a marvelous place, well worth seeing... However, while there are numerous compelling reasons why our long-standing policy deserves to be consigned to the trash bin, I'm not sure that better enabling the USCG to rescue yachties to the south of the island deserves to be anywhere near the top of the list... (grin)

Little reason you can't sail to Cuba today, just find yourself some Canadian crew, or anyone holding a non-US passport, to 'host' your trip...

Or, barring that, you could always ask Beyonce & Jay-Z if they'd like to go back... (grin)


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

What a beautiful place. Would love to visit the island.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

JonEisberg said:


>


Beautiful shot Jon!!!

Yes, I am waiting for an opportunity to sail to Cuba. Every time when I am down in Florida or Caribbean, I see more Canadian boats than Americans'. I think my chance is good. It is good thing that Cuba government does not stamp our US passport, so as long as stop by another country before head back to U.S.

Both my grandfather (in the 30's) and Uncle (in the 70's) died in Havana. It would be cool if I can find their tombs.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I was there in 1958, just before everything was shut down. Havana was a jumpin' town to say the least. From what I've heard from Canadian friends that have been there in the past couple years Havana is essentially a ghost town in comparison to back then.

When I was in Guantanamo Bay the following year, no one was allowed to leave the Naval Base and go to Havana. Diving at Officer's Beach, which was on the base, was awesome. Underwater visibility back then was well in excess of 100 feet, spearfishing for monster grouper and yellowtail snapper was beyond your wildest dreams, and the local beer was called "Hatuey." It sold for .15 cents a bottle back then, and it was really strong. Today it sells for $8 for a six-pack and is brewed somewhere in the U.S..










Gary


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Gitmo is LEASED to the US under treaty, so access to it cannot be compared to access to any part of Cuba. Gitmo is US sovereign soil, the same as the land under any US international embassy, it is not part of Cuba.

As to why anyone would not want US hurricane hunters flying in their sovereign airspace...does the name Gary Powers mean anything to you? The US has admitted to more than 50 illegal uncursions into Soviet airspace, illegal by all standards including our own, during the Cold War years. Including Powers, which Kennedy publicly swore was a weather observation flight, all the way until Krushchev showed the crash remains to the world. (The U2 was supposed to be blown to smithereens, the smithereen-making-equipment supposedly failed.)

Besides, the Haitians and Dominicans can respond faster down there. (What, who's laughing?)

I think we also really insulted Fidel when we refused his generous offer of medical aid to New Orleans after Katrina.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

rockDAWG said:


> Beautiful shot Jon!!!
> 
> Yes, I am waiting for an opportunity to sail to Cuba. Every time when I am down in Florida or Caribbean, I see more Canadian boats than Americans'. I think my chance is good. It is good thing that Cuba government does not stamp our US passport, so as long as stop by another country before head back to U.S.
> 
> Both my grandfather (in the 30's) and Uncle (in the 70's) died in Havana. It would be cool if I can find their tombs.


Wow, Rockdawg. 
For a self professed ******* it is interesting to hear that you have roots in Cuba, at least on one side. 
If I am not mistaken the US does allow resident US family members to visit Cuba. You do have to apply to the powers that be though.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The misinformation on who and how one can travel to Cuba is always remarkable. Some propagate it intentionally, others are outdated, others spread rumor. Here are the official answers, some of which changed over the last couple of years. Travel information is in the middle of the page.

Cuba Sanctions

The most common cause for confusion are stories about people that get away with it, rather than actually comply with the law. It has eased up a little bit, but it's still very difficult. If what you're doing smells like a scam, it is.

If you don't like the law, vote for people that will change it.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> The misinformation on who and how one can travel to Cuba is always remarkable. Some propagate it intentionally, others are outdated, others spread rumor. Here are the official answers, some of which changed over the last couple of years. Travel information is in the middle of the page.
> 
> Cuba Sanctions
> 
> ...


Some of that information appears to be somewhat outdated... The prohibition on prepaid package tours, for example, is dated from 12 years ago...

Bottom line is, ANY AMERICAN citizen can legally visit Cuba today...

It's simply a matter of how much, and to whom, you're willing to pay for the 'privilege':



> Overview
> 
> Travel to Cuba with *Smithsonian Journeys* in 2013 and take part in an immersive People-to-People experience. During our specially designed nine-day program, you'll learn about this enigmatic island nation's fascinating culture through firsthand contact with Cuban artists, musicians, students, teachers, environmentalists, and others who are eager to exchange views with you on Cuban contemporary life. Explore the World Heritage site of Old Havana, where you'll learn about the ongoing preservation of the city's architecture. Meet artists and writers and experience Ernest Hemingway's legacy as well as authentic Cuban rumba rhythms. You'll meet with Afro-Cuban spiritual leaders, park rangers at a bio-reserve, and traditional farmers.* This People-to-People Cultural Exchange is permitted by a license from the U.S. Department of the Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control.
> 
> ...


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## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

JonEisberg said:


> Some of that information appears to be somewhat outdated... The prohibition on prepaid package tours, for example, is dated from 12 years ago...
> 
> Bottom line is, ANY AMERICAN citizen can legally visit Cuba today...
> 
> It's simply a matter of how much, and to whom, you're willing to pay for the 'privilege':


Agreed..almost went on this trip with my wife..but at the time there where no motorcycles with sidecars available yet..at least reliable ones.

Cuba Motorcycle Tours - MotoDiscovery


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

dawg, oddly enough the DOS OFAC guide says that you don't need specific permission to visit a close relative (3 generations) who is a Cuban national. Doesn't say a word about dead or alive so "I'm going to visit my grandfather, I've never met him" might actually be all you need to say.

Could be worth looking into, because visiting family gravesites isn't on the slim list of allowed reasons, but the rules don't say anything about the relatives having to be living.


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## ShoalFinder (May 18, 2012)

When I was stationed at Guantanamo Bay in the 90's, we had a bad plane crash where the surviving member of the flight crew (civilian flight - it was mail if i recall) had to be flown immediately to the burn unit in Miami. At that time, Wash DC had to request permission from Cuba to allow the medical airlift to fly over Cuba in a direct route to Miami. Those kinds of things happened from time to time, and each time a request had to be made.

I don't know how it goes today, but at that time all flights to / from Gitmo had to fly around with the exception of the emergency requests I mentioned. The Coasties there were not allowed to violate Cuban airspace, either.

That was twenty years ago. I have no idea what the regs are these days.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

CalebD said:


> Wow, Rockdawg.
> For a self professed ******* it is interesting to hear that you have roots in Cuba


Haha..... I have been wearing a tie and suit for all my adult life from Monday to Friday. I just wanted to be a red neck for a change in the weekend. :laugher


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

CalebD said:


> Commercial flights go over Cuba all the time.
> Fly to Grand Cayman from Miami and you go right over the island. Pretty amazing view from up there. The spine of the island is a mountainous jungle.
> Not certain about CG helos but I'm sure CG aircraft can transit the airspace. Why would Cuba object to US hurricane hunter aircraft?
> 
> ...


I've flown into Guantanamo on several occassions. There is a narrow corridor that we fly in to get to the base. They will intercept US Government aircraft that approach Cuba that are not in that corridor.

I've never been on a flight that has been intercepted by Cuban fighters, but I know people who have been.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Cuba is one of the best places to visit in the Caribbean, with absolutely the best coral reefs in the area. It is a shame that US continues it's failed policies of isolating Cuba from American people.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> dawg, oddly enough the DOS OFAC guide says that you don't need specific permission to visit a close relative (3 generations) who is a Cuban national. Doesn't say a word about dead or alive so "I'm going to visit my grandfather, I've never met him" might actually be all you need to say.
> 
> Could be worth looking into, because visiting family gravesites isn't on the slim list of allowed reasons, but the rules don't say anything about the relatives having to be living.


It is a good idea, but I don't know if I have any proof of my claim. My Grandfather left for Cuba shortly after my father was born the 20'a. He went back home five years later and took my oldest uncle with him for Cuba again. He died in Havana when my father was 11 yo. My family lost contact with my uncle during the war. My father reestablished communication in the 70's. During the massive exodus of Cubans to America in the 70's, my uncle refused to move to America. I was told that he might have a "wife" in Havana. :laugher.

So I may be meeting with my cousins in Havana


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

JonEisberg said:


> Bottom line is, ANY AMERICAN citizen can legally visit Cuba today...
> 
> It's simply a matter of how much, and to whom, you're willing to pay for the 'privilege':


If you lay low and go about a quiet way to and from Cuba indirectly via another foreign country, I doubt the U.S government will prosecute you even if they know.

Has anyone know of someone goes to jail as an American tourist visit to Cuba? I met a few American Cruisers in DR that have visited Cuba, they all encouraged me to go there.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

JonEisberg said:


> Some of that information appears to be somewhat outdated... The prohibition on prepaid package tours, for example, is dated from 12 years ago...
> 
> Bottom line is, ANY AMERICAN citizen can legally visit Cuba today...
> 
> It's simply a matter of how much, and to whom, you're willing to pay for the 'privilege':


They are trying to say that prepaying a tour company outside of Cuba and then saying you didn't spend any money in Cuba doesn't count as legal. Never has and still doesn't.

I know its ridiculous, but they are allowing "cultural" tours, specifically and individually sanctioned by the Treasury dept to go and anyone can do this, if they have the money. However, getting one of those tours sanctioned is not easy, not frequent and it takes much more than a mom and pop travel agency to do it. i.e. The Smithsonian you referenced.


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## HeartsContent (Sep 14, 2010)

I was a navigator on a Coast Guard C130 and Cuba is very protective of their airspace. Violating it will be a MIG photo op! 

The way the runways in Guantanamo were setup required a really tight turn in order to stay on the US side. It was amazing to see the Airforce Galaxy make this turn and quickly land. Even on a C130, it was entertaining at times.

One of our pilots suffered an eye injury from a Cuban laser when landing. Ended his career.

Cuba is beautiful, the government is bad and the people suffer terribly - it's sad. Not that this bothers anyone outside the US that takes advantage of cheap vacations to be had. BTW, the money skips over the "regular" Cubans and is directed to the Communist Party elitists. Even in poor countries there are wealthy people. The wealthy are picked by the elite ruling class in Cuba, you can't earn your wealth.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

I agree that if our goal is to bring capitalism and freedom to Cuba, we are going about it in a very strange way.

I can't think of any better way to show Cubans how poor a form of government that communism is, than to flood them with tons of middle class American tourists who will spend more in one week than most Cubans make in one year.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Group9 said:


> I agree that if our goal is to bring capitalism and freedom to Cuba, we are going about it in a very strange way.


Pretty sure that's not the first goal there. We are on friendly terms with all sorts of Monarchies, Constitutional Monarchies and the sort.



> I can't think of any better way to show Cubans how poor a form of government that communism is, than to flood them with tons of middle class American tourists who will spend more in one week than most Cubans make in one year.


Ironically, the places that I've felt the most resentment in the world are where locals are poor or repressed.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> Pretty sure that's not the first goal there. We are on friendly terms with all sorts of Monarchies, Constitutional Monarchies and the sort.
> 
> Ironically, the places that I've felt the most resentment in the world are where locals are poor or repressed.


There is no reason for Cuba to be poor. The same way there was no reason for citizens of the former USSR to be poor.

Back before the fall of the USSR, my brothers took a cruise on a Russian cruise ship after graduating from high school. It was ridiculously cheap, something like $250 for a week, (which both had saved from their after school jobs) . When my brother was talking to some of the crewmembers, he found they had all been told that only the very wealthiest Americans could take such a cruise and that the vast majority of Americans lived in poverty.

One of the places they went back then on that cruise was Cuba. One brother still goes to Cuba often on humanitarian missions. The poverty of the average Cuban citizen is much worse than anything we can imagine here. But, they are starting to realize it and more and more of them realize it is simply their system of government and the selfishness of Castro and his brother that is the cause.

There is a reason people are still risking their lives to leave Cuba. And, it is not because it is such a wonderful place to live. I don't think Americans visiting Cuba and interacting with the people there, can have anything but postive results, even though it is a little unsettling that the cheap prices American enjoy there, are born on the backs of the unfortunate.


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## rikhall (Feb 7, 2008)

For what it is worth ...

We just spent great two weeks in Cuba and loved it. ( We do not live in the country that most of your live in so there were no legal issues.)

Super people, great SCUBA, did some fun sailing. And yes - we are going back for sure.

At the place we stayed for four days in Havana, a group of six "twenty something folks" arrived and stayed one night while we were there. They were from the country that most of you live. I asked them how they got there, there answer was "Through Toronto"

'nough said, I guess.

Our trip to Cuba


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

I truly wish that Minne would stop declaiming on Cuba, it gets tiresome having to constantly correct him. Example:


> I know its ridiculous, but they are allowing "cultural" tours, specifically and individually sanctioned by the Treasury dept to go and anyone can do this, if they have the money. However, getting one of those tours sanctioned is not easy, not frequent and it takes much more than a mom and pop travel agency to do it. i.e. The Smithsonian you referenced.


Completely and entirely wrong. I am currently working with two American women (i.e. a very small business) who did specialized Cuban tours licensed by the OFAC under the general license provisions (cultural, religious, sports, journalism, etc.). They recently received a 'person to person' license to conduct tours. Granted, it wasn't easy, but numerous travel agencies are now licensed to conduct these tours in Cuba. Any American wishing to pay the freight can go, just keep in mind these are not 'bar and beach' tours - you will have an itinerary and it will be a busy one. That's mandatory for these tours.
Anyhow, we hope to be able to offer sailing charters in Cuba, available to any American wishing to join us. The charter itinerary will offer a couple of days sailing out of Cienfuego, plus time in Havana, Marina Hemingway, Trinidad and/or Santiago doing the person to person thing. We also hope to be able to hook up with some Cuban dinghy sailors in Matanzas and perhaps have a small regatta with them there. Plans are far from final, but anyone interested can pm me.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Here's another bogey -


> Cuba is beautiful, the government is bad and the people suffer terribly - it's sad. Not that this bothers anyone outside the US that takes advantage of cheap vacations to be had. BTW, the money skips over the "regular" Cubans and is directed to the Communist Party elitists. Even in poor countries there are wealthy people. The wealthy are picked by the elite ruling class in Cuba, you can't earn your wealth.


The Cuban people are, by and large, poor. However, to say they suffer terribly isn't entirely accurate. They are a very happy people, they are fed and housed by the state, and their health care, although not great, is also paid for.
As for wealth in Cuba - Raoul Castro has opened up opportunities for Cubans to start their own small businesses - in home restaurants, driving one of the ancient American cars as a cab, etc. These people are starting to realize that they can get ahead. Also, Cubans working in tourism do well from tips, etc., and many highly educated Cubans - lawyers, teachers, etc., opt to work in tourism for that reason.
Finally, Cubans with American family often receive money and goods from their families, allowing them to live better than the average Cuban. While these three groups do not approach the wealth of the Castro brothers - who live in immense estates just a short distance from Marina Hemingway - in my opinion, the changes in levels of wealth amongst average Cubans will, in the long run, be the death of the Communist system there. 
Will that change Cuba in other ways? Not necessarily - take a look at China, which has opted for capitalism while continuing rigid state control of everything else. That seems to be the way Raoul is taking Cuba. Time will tell.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

canucksailorguy said:


> I truly wish that Minne would stop declaiming on Cuba, it gets tiresome having to constantly correct him.


That's certainly the pot calling the kettle black. You were once encouraging the fake foriegn sponsorship scam in an early contribution here. I'm glad you've changed your approach and are applying for a license. I posted the actual link to the US rules on Cuba.



> I am currently working with two American women (i.e. a very small business) who did specialized Cuban tours licensed by the OFAC under the general license provisions (cultural, religious, sports, journalism, etc.). They recently received a 'person to person' license to conduct tours.


I'll stand corrected that it takes a large organization.



> Granted, it wasn't easy.......


Although, this was actually my point, not the specificity of the organization.

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You certainly know by now, as we've crossed swords on this many time, that I'm entirely fine with legal visits to Cuba, for those inclined. What ticks me off are those that encourage the foreign port of departure or sponsorship scams.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

> You were once encouraging the fake foriegn sponsorship scam


I've never encouraged it. I've noted that people do use it, and that it has drawbacks, such as convincing the OFAC that it's legit.
As for the rules, even the CBP doesn't enforce them, or enforces them haphazardly and without proper knowledge. I've seen this happen more than once, and with people from various countries as well as myself. There is NO coherent policy vis a vis cruisers going to or coming from, Cuba.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

rockDAWG said:


> If you lay low and go about a quiet way to and from Cuba indirectly via another foreign country, I doubt the U.S government will prosecute you even if they know.
> 
> Has anyone know of someone goes to jail as an American tourist visit to Cuba? I met a few American Cruisers in DR that have visited Cuba, they all encouraged me to go there.


If you really want to go, by far the best way would be as a crew on someone else's boat - preferably Canadian, or other non-US registry... Have the owner pay any and all expenses involved, have him "host" you in exchange for your help as crew or whatever, and settle up with him afterwards, if need be... There is no prohibition on non-licensed Americans _traveling_ to Cuba, but only upon _spending money_ while there, and such a strategy legitimately gets you around that... It would seem to me that the likelihood of the State Department/OFAC coming after you in such a situation would have to be miniscule, to virtually non-existent, today...

Everything changes for an American taking their own boat, of course... Then, it's a given you have to spend $ for visas and clearance/departure fees, etc. Again, one can attempt to circumvent that by having a foreign national 'guest' aboard who can pay all expenses, but that could be considerably harder to prove to OFAC if they had an inclination to come after you...

Most importantly, be under no illusion that one might escape the prying eyes of our government by coming or leaving though a 3rd country... It's very naive to think that by returning to the States via the Bahamas, for example, that you'll avoid 'detection'... Trust me, any American who takes their boat to Cuba, our government WILL know about it... However, if you were simply a crew on someone else's boat, it would seem that there would be a decent probability that our State Department might never learn of it... Still, that might be hopelessly naive, and I certainly don't want anyone to take anything I've written on the subject to be construed as any sort of _advice_, or recommendation...

Whether they actually CARE, of course, is the $64K question... All indications over recent years is that they don't, for there have been a LOT of American boats visiting Cuba, far more than most here would probably imagine...

In previous threads, I've written a fair amount about my own 3 separate trips to Cuba with my boat, 10 years ago... This one is probably the most comprehensive...

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/682605-post43.html


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

canucksailorguy said:


> Here's another bogey -
> The Cuban people are, by and large, poor. However, to say they suffer terribly isn't entirely accurate. They are a very happy people, they are fed and housed by the state, and their health care, although not great, is also paid for.
> As for wealth in Cuba - Raoul Castro has opened up opportunities for Cubans to start their own small businesses - in home restaurants, driving one of the ancient American cars as a cab, etc. These people are starting to realize that they can get ahead. Also, Cubans working in tourism do well from tips, etc., and many highly educated Cubans - lawyers, teachers, etc., opt to work in tourism for that reason.
> Finally, Cubans with American family often receive money and goods from their families, allowing them to live better than the average Cuban. While these three groups do not approach the wealth of the Castro brothers - who live in immense estates just a short distance from Marina Hemingway - in my opinion, the changes in levels of wealth amongst average Cubans will, in the long run, be the death of the Communist system there.
> Will that change Cuba in other ways? Not necessarily - take a look at China, which has opted for capitalism while continuing rigid state control of everything else. That seems to be the way Raoul is taking Cuba. Time will tell.


Quoted from the old Pravda?

"they are fed and housed by the state"

The last trip my brother took down there, he stayed in the house of one of the Cubans. There were no windows in the house, and they only had electricity for a few hours a day. But, they couldn't use it because all of their outlets were burned out and they couldn't get any more. For a bus to take kids to church, they were using an old dump truck that the kids would ride in. It didn't even have working headlights. Almost no one had a working car. The whole yard was fenced to raise pigs to eat and he said the smell was unbelievable most of the time.

The last night he was there, he stayed in a hotel, that although run down, was much nicer than where he had been staying. There, he met dozens of foreigners, who were staying there and going to the beaches, who were sure they were seeing the real Cuba.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

> Quoted from the old Pravda?


I didn't say it was a paradise, and how you see something depends largely on one's attitude. The Cubans don't necessarily see how they live as suffering. That's not to say they wouldn't want better than they have - of course they do, but since everyone they know is in the same circumstance, it's not as bad as it might be.
Things like non working headlights, burned out outlets, etc. are only suffering for those who have know better, i.e. those in first world countries.
You make the common mistake of applying your personal sensibilities to a situation in which they do not apply.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

canuck, if Americans on a legitimate cultural (etc) visit have such busy agendas set up that they have to comply with, how are you going to justify sailing charters, which are in essence a day booked full of idle time, on the same basis?

And I note that your plans are still pending, not approved, so there is no guarantee that the US will agree with you and approve them at all. You also speak of the two women you're working with as having had trips, in the past tense, which begs to ask why they stopped or were stopped.

Cuba may be a people's paradise, but somehow, someone keeps generating enough desparation that they keep launching rafts hoping to reach America. Or perhaps you think the Marielista exodus was also just Fidel throwing out the trash, and that America got totally conned on that one too? 

Would the Cubans let you sponsor tours of America? What would you charge, two pigs and a chicken?


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

bit of passive aggressive there, hellosailor? Ok - to answer you. 
There will be a marine biologist on board the boat, plus we have the interactions at the docks, and with fishermen. We expect that to fulfill the cultural aspect on the sailing days, but yes, it has to be approved yet.
The women still operate trips - no past tense about it. The new person to person license is a new development for them. No need to attempt to infer anything out of line there, which the tone of your question implies.
I won't trouble to answer the questions in your last two paragraphs. You're simply looking for an argument based on your ideological preferences and this isn't the forum for that, is it?
As I noted before, for those who are interested in sailing in Cuba - this will be an entirely legal way to do it, and to discover for yourself the truths about this fascinating country.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

JonEisberg said:


> If you really want to go,................
> 
> In previous threads, I've written a fair amount about my own 3 separate trips to Cuba with my boat, 10 years ago... This one is probably the most comprehensive...
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/682605-post43.html


Coool !!! Good advice and make sense. 

Thanks for the link. Good read.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

canuck, you are the one who said your hope was to offer "sailing charters" in Cuba. Now you are saying there will be a marine biologist aboard the boat. So, what? you're turning a sailing charter into a marine research expedition? Making it into an educational experience? That's a different pitch. (Or the Doc Ford cover story.) Whether it works or not, it is not the simple "sailing charter" you proposed. Are nature tours or nature hikes in the forest approved as a legitimate educational trip for Americans? 

You may not think politics or history are relevant here, but politics is the only reason there's any question about whether US military aircraft, or civilians, can enter Cuban territory. That's what it all comes back to.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Hellosailor, now you've gone from passive aggressive to damn near obnoxious. If you had the LEAST understanding of how the person to person trips work, you'd understand that they require a full time, call it 'cultural', component - i.e. meeting with, Cubans, in some fashion in which you are learning about the country, its people and its culture and history, and so on. I thought that had been made clear, but if not, perhaps now you understand.
The only way for these trips to work is to introduce that component - it's how the Smithsonian does it, it's how the motorcycle tours work, and it's how this program will work. In fact, it's how EVERY single person to person tour operates - them are the rules.
I'm well aware of the relevance of politics to this issue btw. You might try to google some of the articles I've written on the topic, in SAIL Magazine for example. 
Jon Eisberg's articles are, indeed, well done and worth reading.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I must get the abridged version of SAIL, I didn't see any articles by canucksailorguy, so I have no idea what you may have written. [Later: Oh, you must be Captain Wally? Last article, not video, in 2010?]

Meeting a fisherman when you dock and cast off, that's not quite a "cultural" component of a trip. Going to his daughter's wedding or his son's softball game, that'd be cultural exchange.

You can call me all the names you please, but I'm just taking the words I know you've written--here--at their face value. If you're running a cultural exchange, don't say you're running sailing charters.

Feel free to game the system, but that's _your _own rope you're hanging from. Maybe I just don't understand what a simple "sailing charter" is.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

No one is gaming the system, and no one is hanging from any rope - it's how the program works. You set up an itinerary that meets the requirements, seek approval for it, and then promote and sell it to those interested. 
The way this is set up, just 'meeting' people is a part of the cultural exchange portion - and, if you think of it, it makes sense. Meeting fishermen out at anchorage, trading for lobster or fish with them, talking back and forth about what our lives are about - that's a cultural exchange. When 'Joe', in Cayo Levisa, spent an afternoon repairing my outboard, and I got to see the challenges they labour under to accomplish what was not a particularly complex job due to the difficulties Cuba faces from the embargo - that's a cultural exchange. And, fyi, it's neither realistic nor possible to 'schedule' a kid's baseball game or a local's wedding into a tour - for that, you have to meet the people and then wing it. Opportunities like that happen everywhere, including on docks. 
You clearly have NO idea what life in Cuba is about, or how very different it is from life in the US, or from your notion of what life in Cuba actually is based on your earlier remarks. 
One of the goals of the person to person program is to facilitate understanding of the culture - and culture, ipso facto, comprises every facet of life. For example, I learned a great deal about the difficulties Cuba and Cubans face just watching Joe repair my outboard. That includes the difficulties of repairing an American made item due to the embargo, to the fact that Cuban stores don't sell dog food - because that's how Joe wanted to be paid, in kibble from my pup's stores, for his wife's dog. He also asked if I could bring him a stroller (can't buy them in Cuba) for his soon to be first born child on my next trip (I arranged for a boat I knew going that way some months later to bring him one). I also learned that the things we cast away - half empty tubes of glue, old worn out alternators, elderly and worn tools - all have value in Cuba, and I learned why. All of it was fascinating, and yet it would have been impossible to put any of it on an itinerary, which is why the casual meetings with Cubans can sometimes be the most rewarding, in terms of understanding their culture and society.
I'm making a very strong effort to present this to you so you can see why and how this program is important, and how it can be beneficial to all, Cubans and Americans. Hopefully, I'm making it clear to you. 
The sailing part of this charter is meant to attract a particular market, just as the motorcycle trip charter mentioned in another post attracts that crowd, or the museum sponsored charters attract that particular interest group. It's fascinating to indulge in your passion as a way and a means to discover another culture and it leads to discoveries and understandings that are relevant to what is important in your own life.
Because it's Cuba, it cannot possibly be 'just a simple charter', at least, not yet. And even if it were, sailors charter in new places in part to discover what those places are all about. At least I and others I know do - perhaps you're different?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"You clearly have NO idea what life in Cuba is about,"
Why, because I think they have softball games and weddings? You mean, Fidel lied to me, and they don't have these things?
And why do you think I don't know the value of repairing and re-using broken things? Does Cuba differ from Appalachia or anyplace else in the world that way? You don't see me buying pint bottles of brand-named waters, do you? Your assumptions are totally unfounded, and Cuba has no unique claims to poverty.
I didn't say chartering wasn't about exploring, but we both know that when you are charting, you are in the splendid isolation of the boat for perhaps ten hours every day. If you are starting a "cultural" exchange by blocking off most of your day in isolation, you're not on a cultural exchange. That's very much like the professional "continuing education" conferences that used to book holiday resorts or golf courses, where the trip was being taken as a business expense or for the ed credits, except, folks were just out to sun and play golf. Our IRS hasn't been that dumb in years, I can't see the State Department being that dumb these days either. You might get it by them, but let's be honest, that's still gaming the system. 
If I wanted a cultural exchange I could go work on a kibbutz. And you could set up guest programs working in the cane fields, or on fishing boats. Chartering? Ah, no, the hours don't add up. Now, mixed racing in one-design boats and learning Cuban maritime traditions, that might be cultural exchange. Waving bah-bye and going sailing for the day?
Gonna be real inconvenient for you, if you tweak the tiger one too many times and they stop allowing you to enter US waters, isn't it? They tend to get PO'd when you play them for fools too openly.


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## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

Can you guys take this crap to OT / Politics?


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

@ blowinstink - I've tried really really hard to keep this on sailing, and the potential of chartering in Cuba. Sorry about what's happened here, since it seems some people want a fight.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

@ hello sailor - I've tried really really hard to be respectful, to you and to the other members of this site by not responding to you as you have shown us you deserve. People who know me know I don't put up with much crap, and I've put up with a substantial amount of it from you today.
You seem determined to misconstrue, misunderstand and misinterpret whatever I say (EDIT - personal attack removed - Faster)
End of discussion. I'll respond and answer questions to anyone who wants to conduct a civil discussion on the subject. My apologies for what has gone on.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

canucksailorguy said:


> @ hello sailor - I've tried really really hard to be respectful, to you and to the other members of this site by not responding to you as you have shown us you deserve. People who know me know I don't put up with much crap, and I've put up with a substantial amount of it from you today.
> You seem determined to misconstrue, misunderstand and misinterpret whatever I say.
> End of discussion. I'll respond and answer questions to anyone who wants to conduct a civil discussion on the subject. My apologies for what has gone on.


Interesting way of apologizing .

I have no dog in this fight, however and apology after a lambasting personal attack is very disingenuous.

You have taken this to a completely different unecessary level. Personal attacks aren't acceptable

please post with a little more respect if you wish people to read. Don't expect your posts to be accepted as gospel either. Take you anger elsewhere

Thanks for anticipated cooperation


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## Stella's crew (Sep 3, 2012)

Wow Politics/emotions aside, a large reason for our boat is to see this wonderful island before capitalization. Reading others stories increases our longing. canucksailorguy we are with you.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

From chef2sail's comments, I realize that my remarks may have been misconstrued. I was not being disingenuous in my remarks, I was apologizing to the readers of this thread 
I was not, in any way, apologizing to Hellosailor.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Stella, check out both my facebook page and website, the photos and videos there will give you an idea of what you have to look forward to in Cuba.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Stella's crew said:


> Wow Politics/emotions aside, a large reason for our boat is to see this wonderful island before capitalization. Reading others stories increases our longing. canucksailorguy we are with you.


Don't mean to discourage you in any way, Cuba is a fascinating place, and a truly wonderful cruising destination...

However, brace yourself for dealing with a level of officialdom, and restriction of your movements, that most of us are unaccustomed to. Perhaps things have lightened up somewhat in the decade since I was there, but I found it to be pretty oppressive, and tired of it quickly...

Pretty much every time you move the boat, it's likely you'll have to be dealing with the Guarda, and reams of paperwork. they simply don't understand how cruisers tend to move about, and the need for the occasional early departure, etc... I managed to find a couple of isolated/remote anchorages where I was left alone, but I was also once forced to vacate one late in the day, and move to a much less desirable spot under the watchful eye of the Guarda... In all but the most remote places, any sort of exploration by dinghy is likely to be essentially prohibited...

Again, canucksailor will know better, perhaps things have changed... But I found one of the better ways to really explore the country, was to base myself in a place like Puerto Vita for awhile, and rent a car...

One suggestion, while I happen to think of it... Once away from a marina like Marina Hemingway, you might often have to resort to jerry-jugging diesel fuel to the boat. You definitely want to have a fuel filter funnel similar to this, the quality of the fuel I once bought from a gas station in Varadero was pretty appalling ...










To give one an idea of the number of American boats visiting Cuba these days, I just came across this from Jimmy Cornell's WORLD VOYAGE PLANNER yesterday:



> The total number of boats that spend the winter in the Caribbean has remained stable in recent years, but one country that has seen a significant increase is Cuba...
> 
> According to Commodore Jose Estrich of the Hemingway YC, "what is remarkable is the year-by-year increase of vessels from the USA with a total of 135 American yachts arriving at Cuban marinas in 2010 in spite of the interdiction of sailing to Cuba still being in force".


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Jon, things haven't changed...much. The officialdom is still there, but only the initial visit is lengthy. The subsequent clearings are generally one or two Guarda who take a quick look in the boat, take your despacho (known as a zarpe in other countries), and leave you to your own. You still cannot leave your boat at anchor and dinghy about at will, at least on the north coast. Also, you can only go ashore at designated marinas - on the north coast, that's Puerto de Vita, Guillermo, Varadero, Marina Hemingway, Cayo Levisa and Cabo San Antonio - six marinas over a total of 742 miles. 
Your suggestion about parking the boat at a marina and using that as a base is what I also recommend. I also suggest that cruisers bring their bikes onto a bus, travel to the cities and towns that interest them, and stay at a casa particulara (analogous to our b & bs). That way, they meet locals and get a much more intimate view of the country.
For those with security concerns, Cuba is an extremely safe country. You can wander at will, anytime of the day or night, and not be concerned.
Unlike you, I never found fuel problems, nor found anyone else with them. That problem seems to be past.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

canucksailorguy said:


> I didn't say it was a paradise, and how you see something depends largely on one's attitude. The Cubans don't necessarily see how they live as suffering. That's not to say they wouldn't want better than they have - of course they do, but since everyone they know is in the same circumstance, it's not as bad as it might be.
> Things like non working headlights, burned out outlets, etc. are only suffering for those who have know better, i.e. those in first world countries.
> *You make the common mistake of applying your personal sensibilities to a situation in which they do not appl*y.


Are you sure that's not the pot calling the kettle black? You like going to Cuba, and you really like the prices, but, you don't like thinking too much about why that is, so you try and convince yourself that the Cubans really are better off the way they are made to live, than the way they would like to live.

Whatever it takes to make you feel good about going there, I guess.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Canuck loves Cuba. Nothing wrong with that. However, he is actively trying to establish a business of taking paying Americans to Cuba, so one must take that into consideration. Any pushback is usually met with an attack on one's political beliefs, even if none were expressed. 

The bottom line is, do it legally and enjoy. Do it illegally and you have no right to object to any broken law where you come up on the losing end.

I wonder what would happen, if you have an accident in Cuba and unintentionally damage property or injure someone and were not there legally. It happens. I bet you don't get the same wink and nod that you get when they fail to stamp your passport.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Some of you people need to take a reading comprehension course from what I can see here. Did I say anything about prices in Cuba? No - and did I say I was trying, did I even infer that I was trying to convince myself


> that the Cubans really are better off the way they are made to live


No. So learn to read for comprehension, not to support your own uninformed biases.
Some of you, rather than note that this is in a sailing thread, INSIST on dragging politics into the discussion. Do me and the rest of us a favour - take your whining and pewling about Cuba - a country most of you have never been to and know far less about than you seem to like to think you do - and deal with it in the OT forum.
The people of Cuba know that life isn't what it could be, but they make the best of what they have, and they do it with remarkable cheer and goodwill and personal kindness to one another.
Try and learn from them. They may be poor, they may be living in a dictatorship, life may be hard but nonetheless and despite all of that, I can see how a few of you would benefit from the lesson.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

> I wonder what would happen, if you have an accident in Cuba


A Canadian got into a car accident, I believe someone was injured, and it became quite a complex situation despite the young man being there legally. I believe at one point he might have been jailed and he WAS held in the country until a determination was made. That sort of hassle is an inherent problem in most third world countries, not just Cuba. 
Keep in mind, an American in Cuba is NOT breaking their laws by being there and, unless he/she spends money there, is not breaking American law. So the situation is substantially more complex than what you have posited.
I imagine that getting consular support in that situation might be an issue. Seems to me someone here on SN was in Cuba in a consular type position. If he's reading this, he could probably answer that question.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

> Any pushback is usually met with an attack on one's political beliefs, even if none were expressed.


My understanding is that the OT forum is tasked with this - so TAKE IT THERE! I want to talk sailing.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

canucksailorguy said:


> Some of you people need to take a reading comprehension course from what I can see here. Did I say anything about prices in Cuba? No - and did I say I was trying, did I even infer that I was trying to convince myself
> No. So learn to read for comprehension, not to support your own uninformed biases.
> Some of you, rather than note that this is in a sailing thread, INSIST on dragging politics into the discussion. Do me and the rest of us a favour - take your whining and pewling about Cuba - a country most of you have never been to and know far less about than you seem to like to think you do - and deal with it in the OT forum.
> The people of Cuba know that life isn't what it could be, but they make the best of what they have, and they do it with remarkable cheer and goodwill and personal kindness to one another.
> Try and learn from them. They may be poor, they may be living in a dictatorship, life may be hard but nonetheless and despite all of that, I can see how a few of you would benefit from the lesson.


So, you really think, that you can talk about sailing to a country, where the people who live there, undera dictatorship, and are killed or imprisoned when they try and leave, or have an opinion contray to that allowed by the rulers, and you can just leave that completely out of the conversation?

I guess that would be more fun. Sorry to spoil your Cuba party.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Hi everyone,

This is me being a moderator here.

We need to keep it sailing related and not political, if possible. If this becomes too political, I drop it into OT and then some good info is lost. If you want to have a political discussion on this, take it to OT. However, no one can get personal... not even there.

I would also like to remind everyone that the topic of cruising to Cuba is a very political and hot subject on Sailnet... and really anywhere. Because of that, these threads often do not last long in the general discussion and open forums outside of OT. Let's see if we can keep this one out of the gutter... at least a while longer.

Brian


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Thank you Brian.

EDIT BY CD: I think just thank you will suffice (smile).


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> I wonder what would happen, if you have an accident in Cuba and unintentionally damage property or injure someone ...


Well, based upon my experience, I would say that renting a car in Western Australia entails a far greater risk...

No kangaroos dropping out of the sky in Cuba, as far as I could tell... (grin)


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Back to the original programming 

If USCG asks Cuba nicely, I wonder if Cuba will grant CG a fly over to aid a distressed vessel. ???


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## rikhall (Feb 7, 2008)

Group9 said:


> Quoted from the old Pravda?
> 
> The last trip my brother took down there, he stayed in the house of one of the Cubans. There were no windows in the house, and they only had electricity for a few hours a day. But, they couldn't use it because all of their outlets were burned out and they couldn't get any more. For a bus to take kids to church, they were using an old dump truck that the kids would ride in. It didn't even have working headlights. Almost no one had a working car. The whole yard was fenced to raise pigs to eat and he said the smell was unbelievable most of the time.


Well - I have no idea how long ago your brother went, but the houses we visited and stayed in were very nice. Cubans can now buy and sell their houses, can fix them up as they like and our "Casa particular" (B&B) was very nice.

Rik


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

> our "Casa particular" (B&B) was very nice.


The casas have to be licensed by the government, and they are eligible for better food rations since they serve tourists. I've never heard of one that didn't live up to decent standards, and I'm wondering if his brother ended up in an unlicensed 'casa' - not impossible, since they exist, or in one meant solely for Cubans. Or, was not in a casa p at all, but somehow managed to stay in someone's home - which happens to be prohibido.


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## wannabsailor (Jul 9, 2012)

Hopefully Cuba will open soon. Someone needs to tell Washington the cold war is over, those nim-ka-poops would probably be surprised to learn we won! Several of my flying buddies use to go on the “Cayman Caravan” in their small single aircraft, they flew right over the center of Cuba, some as low as 3000 ft., all pre-arranged of course. I have met several people from Cuba at the University I work at. If the U.S. would normalize relations with Havana I would move up my sail boating plans by at least 3 years. Great pictures feel free to post more? Every Cuban I have ever talked with said that the Cuban people understand that the problem is between the governments, not the people.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

dawg, the Cubans are big on humanitarian aid but relations with the US go tit-for-tat based on daily events. Like earlier this month when they returned the two parents (who kidnapped their own children) to Florida. Or, versus the assorted other folks they have granted asylum to.

So it would very much depend on which side of the bed who woke up on.

A typical USCG rescue helo launched from Key West might be able to spend two hours in the waters south of Cuba, in perfect weather, before they had to make for land, in any direction, so I would guess there are also practical limits for that kind of operation.


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## wannabsailor (Jul 9, 2012)

In the words of our illustrious moderator, the Cruisingdad, who said: let’s keep it about sailing if we can,…etc. didn’t I read on here one time that there used to be yacht races from Tampa to Cuba? Has any sail-netters participated in these? I would be curious about how long it took, what one could expect as an average speed; was there a better way of doing it other than “go south – turn left a bit?” Largest boats, smallest? Weather issues? Gulf issues?
Just Curious


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

wannabsailor said:


> In the words of our illustrious moderator, the Cruisingdad, who said: let's keep it about sailing if we can,&#8230;etc. didn't I read on here one time that there used to be yacht races from Tampa to Cuba? Has any sail-netters participated in these? I would be curious about how long it took, what one could expect as an average speed; was there a better way of doing it other than "go south - turn left a bit?" Largest boats, smallest? Weather issues? Gulf issues?
> Just Curious


That race got shut down. Though there are many interested parties, it still has not opened back up.

Anyone done that race?

Brian


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

I met someone in Nyack NY who had done the race, and met Fidel at the supper afterwards. The story was fascinating, but I can't recall it well enough to tell it here. Sarasota Yacht Club has tried for several years to restart the race, the OFAC simply wouldn't ok it, no matter how hard they tried and how many hoops they jumped through.
The course would be Sarasota - Key West, Havana. You run not quite at right angles to the current then, and since the winds are usually out of the east with an east setting current, it can get lively. Mind you, I've seen it completely flat on one crossing. Very odd that was.
Calder recommends crossing after a norther and riding in on the NW winds. The trick there is not to get to Hemingway's entrance channel before the waves subside - it can be VERY difficult if the conditions are rough. For those who want to see what a fairly mild day looks like, go to SAIL, Cruising Cuba: Paso Malo | Sail Magazine, and take a look at my video of Varadero's Paso Malo (Bad Pass). It's not much different from the Hemingway entrance - a washing machine or worse given the right conditions.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

canucksailorguy said:


> Sarasota Yacht Club has tried for several years to restart the race, the OFAC simply wouldn't ok it, no matter how hard they tried and how many hoops they jumped through.


I was involved a couple of years ago. The Sarasota Yacht Club folks had no interest in counsel from people with experience at State, Commerce, and Treasury. The National Sailing Hall of Fame has not been nearly so parochial and is making progress.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

> The Sarasota Yacht Club folks had no interest in counsel from people with experience at State, Commerce, and Treasury. The National Sailing Hall of Fame has not been nearly so parochial and is making progress.


That was my impression of the SYC Dave, but I wasn't willing to state that here since I was only observing, not involved. Glad to hear someone is taking up the challenge. Can you give us more info on it?


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## rikhall (Feb 7, 2008)

wannabsailor said:


> In the words of our illustrious moderator, the Cruisingdad, who said: let's keep it about sailing if we can,&#8230;etc.


Best I can do - me at the stern of Hemingway's Pilar, in Cuba










Rik


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

...that's pretty darn good, Rik! I've not gotten there yet, what's the site like? When were you there?


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

canucksailorguy said:


> SVAuspicious said:
> 
> 
> > I was involved a couple of years ago. The Sarasota Yacht Club folks had no interest in counsel from people with experience at State, Commerce, and Treasury. The National Sailing Hall of Fame has not been nearly so parochial and is making progress.
> ...


I got involved in the Sarasota effort when a delivery client got excited about the potential for legally going to Cuba. I managed to get some insight into SYC plans, offered some comments, my Rolodex, and some time to pound the halls at various government agencies in DC (I'm not that far away). They said they had it under control and shipped what might be described as a self-important request that was summarily dismissed.

I don't yet have a lot of insight into the National Sailing Hall of Fame effort. I know it exists and is ongoing and is being shepherded by people who seem to know what they are doing. I stumbled across that in coordinating another, nascent effort for a rally to Cuba.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Interesting - please keep me up to date on anything new if you would. In particular, my editors would be interested.


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## rikhall (Feb 7, 2008)

canucksailorguy said:


> ...that's pretty darn good, Rik! I've not gotten there yet, what's the site like? When were you there?


The site was interesting and I am glad we went to see it in March of this year - cost $5.00, but then most things cost something. We also enjoyed "seeing" Hemingway at El Floridita, in Old Havana, purported to be one of the seven most famous bars in the world. At least that's what it said on the sign outside!










The one on the right is Hemingway. My wife (WriterHall.com) is the author on the left.



Rik


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Hey! It's Cuba. You can believe that sign! 
I'll have to check out Hemingway's place on my next trip.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

hellosailor said:


> dawg, the Cubans are big on humanitarian aid but relations with the US go tit-for-tat based on daily events. Like earlier this month when they returned the two parents (who kidnapped their own children) to Florida. Or, versus the assorted other folks they have granted asylum to.
> 
> So it would very much depend on which side of the bed who woke up on.
> 
> A typical USCG rescue helo launched from Key West might be able to spend two hours in the waters south of Cuba, in perfect weather, before they had to make for land, in any direction, so I would guess there are also practical limits for that kind of operation.


The CG wouldn't launch helos from Key West for a rescue south of Cuba. They would launch an HH-60 from the base at Great Inagua or an HH-65 from a nearby cutter.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Thanks, 9. The USCG doesn't even list that base as existing in most places, perhaps because it is a joint drug operation with DEA, perhaps because they've just finished rebuilding it, apparently their hangar blew away in Hurricane Ike. Maybe this is "Area 52".

Doesn't sound as genteel as NAS Bermuda was though. (G)


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

hellosailor said:


> Thanks, 9. The USCG doesn't even list that base as existing in most places, perhaps because it is a joint drug operation with DEA, perhaps because they've just finished rebuilding it, apparently their hangar blew away in Hurricane Ike. Maybe this is "Area 52".
> 
> Doesn't sound as genteel as NAS Bermuda was though. (G)


It has never shown up on Google Earth, either.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Coast Guard opens new OPBAT hangar in Great Inagua, Bahamas | Coast Guard News

Since they were celebrating having "a hangar" it is probably at the airport, which GE does show, just not in a lot of detail. Not surprising for an out of the way island, from Google's point of view. Of course from there it should be fairly easy to stay off the Cuban coast and simply skirt south of the island entirely.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

hellosailor said:


> Coast Guard opens new OPBAT hangar in Great Inagua, Bahamas | Coast Guard News
> 
> Since they were celebrating having "a hangar" it is probably at the airport, which GE does show, just not in a lot of detail. Not surprising for an out of the way island, from Google's point of view. Of course from there it should be fairly easy to stay off the Cuban coast and simply skirt south of the island entirely.


I haven't checked GE in a while. I do know when I was working out of GI back in the early 2000's, the base had the standard "covered in clouds" look that GE would put in at the request of the USG.

I never understood why as it is mentioned in the Explorer Chart Books, and every Bahamian on GI certainly knows it is there. 










How it looked back then.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"During the ceremony for the opening of the OPBAT Aircraft Hangar at the Inagua International Airport, " [Bahamasweekly]
No clouds, no mystery, just fussy pictures that don't show any aircraft on the ground in GE.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

hellosailor said:


> "During the ceremony for the opening of the OPBAT Aircraft Hangar at the Inagua International Airport, " [Bahamasweekly]
> No clouds, no mystery, just fussy pictures that don't show any aircraft on the ground in GE.


Does it show any donkeys? I always wondered if they survived. Mean SOBs that would chase you and try and bite you. Landing at night, and wondering if there were any still standing on the runway after the shooing away run, was always exciting.


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