# Cored deck soft spot repair



## sync

Hi,
I know this has been asked here before, I did a search on this forum and many others but still have a few questions. I’m new to doing work on boats and I just recently moved into my ’76 Catalina 27. I got the boat for a pretty good price and it seemed very solid. I also did have several people in the know (as far as boats are concerned) tell me the same.

I have been noticing a few smaller soft spots on the deck lately (forgive my terminology or lack there of) near the edge of the deck on the side where the mast stays are bolted down. I have one soft spot on the port side that is about 2-3 sqft and another in the same place on the starboard that’s about 1 sqft. I’ve been doing a lot of research about how to fix this. I am a bit concerned with the location of the spots due to the fact that my rigging is bolted there, which is most likely what caused it anyway (water seeping through the bolt holes.) I did notice that it looks like some glass work has been done in that area on the port side before so maybe its possible it wasn't done right the first time. Either way, Im planning on waterproofing all my bolt holes on deck when I figure out what I’m going to do about the soft spots.

I’ve read about the “drill and fill” options where you basically pump epoxy into the core but have found very few people actually advocating this. I know that injecting epoxy into a hole full of wet (Im assuming) plywood isn’t going to solve anything, but I live aboard in a marina in the Tampa area, it rains a lot, and if I start cutting my deck apart to replace an entire section of core, I have no idea (whether being in a boat yard, or in my slip) how I’m going to keep everything dry. Im not even totally conviced I can do it myself. Im pretty handy but Im not completely sold on the idea of tearing into my deck. Is there anyone out there who has done this themselves or who has had success with the drill-and-fill method? Any thoughts at all? I am planning a haul out towards the end of the year (after the rainy seasion) so I could do the work while on the hard but it will all still be weather permitting.

Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Nick


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## CaptainForce

I would first suggest that the rigging attachments of your shrounds to the chainplates and the security of your chainplates is most important; however, the soft spots in your deck would be more of a cosmetic than a structural problem. I'm assuming your chainplates pass through this deck and are fast secured to structures beneath the deck. I have repaired several areas of my deck across the state from you, but also in rainy Florida. I far prefer the removal of the layer of fiberglass above the wet core and replacing the core. I used a rotary tool (like a Dremel) with a cutting wheel to remove the deck top layer and scraped out the sodden core. After this task, that can be completed in a couple hours, you can brush in a thin layer of epoxy to seal your work from the afternoon thunderstorm. After positioning your new core and grinding it to a level prepared for replacing your deck plate, you can again finish your morning work with a brushing of epoxy to seal for rain. Be sure to "feather" the seam at the perimeter of your repair to extend the surface area of the bond between your new deck surface and the old so that cracks won't develop outlining your repair. Take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## sync

Well, I have 3 side stays on that side, and all of them are in the area of the soft spot. They are bolted directly into the deck with a small piece of aluminum ( about 4 inches long) on the inside of the cabin as a backing plate. Ive looked at other setups of chain plates where they are built into the corner of the structure and mine are not light that. My deck is just glassed into the corner of the hull and I have a single timber support right under the mast that holds up the deck. My prime concern is that if the deck gets too soft, those stays might start to come up and then Ive got a full thickness problem. My second concern and the only reason I got this deep in thought about it, is if there is water in the core causing the delamination, its only a matter of time before it spreads across more of my deck. Am I right? I am perfectly comfortable in leaving it and writing it off as a causmetic issue if it doesn't get any worse. I just won't step there if I don't need to, but Im concerned that next year, theres going to be another square foot worth of soft and the job gets bigger. 

I appreciate that you walked me through the job, that helps a lot. Thanks, I guess I just needed to hear from someone who's actually done it out in the elements. I know I can attach the stays to the toe rail to do the job and I will definitely make improvements to my chain plate situation when the job is done. I plan on painting the entire deck shortly after I finish the job. 

You mentioned feathering out the finish to prevent cracking, but you never mentioned actually glassing over it after its done....Would you glass it or just epoxy it since Im basically just replacing the old glass back in its place? Also, as far as getting a new piece of core to fit, is there any trick to that? There is a slight curvature to the deck and I have a feeling that its not going to be the easiest thing in the world to get a brand new piece to just fit in nicely. Any thoughts on this?
Thanks a lot for all the info so far.


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## casioqv

I've had excellent luck using a "drill and fill" technique for soft decks on my 1974 Catalina 22. It's important to dry the deck core completely first- I was lucky and mine was already dried out. I've heard you can dry it out with many small holes, and displace some of the water with a solvent, like acetone.

On mine, I drilled a few holes, and glued film canisters over them with a hole drilled in the bottom- as funnels. I kept these full with unthickened west system epoxy, and pushed on the deck with my hands to "pump" the epoxy between the fiberglass and the wood core. After hardening, I removed the film canisters, chamfered the holes with a drill bit, and filled with gel-coat patch. It's been one year, and these parts of the deck feel more solid than the rest of the boat still.


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## casioqv

sync said:


> You mentioned feathering out the finish to prevent cracking, but you never mentioned actually glassing over it after its done....Would you glass it or just epoxy it since Im basically just replacing the old glass back in its place?


If your deck core isn't rotted away or wet, but just delaminated from the fiberglass skin- then just filling with epoxy will be a permanent fix, without any glassing.

If the deck core has been left flexible long enough, the flexing can fatigue crack the fiberglass under and over the core. In this case, you'll need to re-enforce these cracks with new cloth, especially from underneath. On my C22, one of the cockpit benches would flex like 1" down when stood on, and I found the fiberglass underneath the core cracked through. After epoxying it back together, and covering the crack with new cloth from underneath, it's good as new.


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## ffiill

As an alternative filler consider either chopped glassfibre or chopped carbon fibre in resin which you can buy in large amounts quite cheaply from automobile repair supply shops. I have used the carbon fibre variety as a core when filling in a cut out in a sandwiched ply and glassfibre bulkhead.


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## sync

Awesome info....Ill look into the chopped glass and resin. Im sure my core is wet, before I do the repair, I need to fix a lot of improperly installed hardware on the deck thats been leaking. (Im almost positive its the chainplates leaking most of the water.) Anyone ever used CPES? Ive been reading about it and it seems like it works really well if the deck is dried completely. Also, Im planning to hollow out and make an epoxy bed around my chainplates so this doesn't happen again.

Casioqv
how big were the soft spots you fixed? I have a pretty large but narrow area, approx. 5 ft. x 1 ft. along the portlights where the port stays are bolted into the deck. 

Im looking seriously into CPES but Im thinking it would be better, and not much more work or expense just to recore.....I just dont like the idea of cutting up my deck when Ive never worked with fiberglass before.

Thoughts anyone?


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## Wingnut247

Sync

How did your repair go? 

I have recently purchased a 1974? Catalina 27. Guess what... a soft spot around the stanchion nearest the side stays. Fortunately it is small and contained to that area immediately around the stanchion. However, the proximity to the stays does concern me. The last owner lived aboard and did not sail or maintain the boat as she should have. It looks like the stanchion should have been re-bedded or at least sealed because it appears to have been leaking for a while. The soft spot appears to only extend about an inch maybe two from the base of the stanchion.

I am curious to hear about the experience, technique and results.

Anyone else with Catalina soft spot experience is welcome to chime in. 

My previous boat (the one soon to head to craigslist) is a Catalina 22... love/d it... but I wanted a little more room inside. 

Thanks

Wingnut247 Washington State


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## travlin-easy

I have some wet spots on my 33 Morgan's deck near the mast boot. The boot is completely sealed, but nonetheless there are wet spots. I talked with a fiberglass repair guy at the marina who said he can fix the problem by drilling a few holes in the top of the cabin, then attaching a Hi-Vac to the lowest hole and over a period of a few days, draw the water from the balsa core. He then pours acetone into the highest hole while the Hi-Vac is still running and draws it through the core to finish the drying process. Next, he pours a very slow drying Epoxy into the highest hole, again while the Hi-Vac is still running. When the Epoxy resin reaches the Hi-Vac he shuts it down, waits about 4 days, then seals the fares the openings. He said the process essentially solidifies that portion of the core that was previously wet, adheres it tightly to the surrounding fiberglass, and does not add a significant amount of weight. No, it's not as good as new, but if everything goes well it should last about 20 years, which is longer than I'll probably be on Planet Earth.

Good luck, and keep us posted on how the repairs progress,

Gary


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## JKCatalina310

*A couple of steps I would take*

Congrats on the recent purchase. Good luck with her.

If it was me, here is what I would do:

1) The water coming into the deck is the first problem. This is likely leaking around penetrations for deck hardware (i.e. the bolts that hold down stanchions, cleats, jib tracks, chain plates, etc.). This is called "re-bedding" and is not uncommon; I have a 2001 Catalina 310 and I have to deal with this issue this spring. I would suggest you go to Maine Sail's site and searching these forums for details on how to do this.

2) If you core damage around the deck hardware, you should fix this before you re-bed the hardware. Again, not uncommon (I have this issue around one of my stanchions). And again I would recommend you look at Maine Sail's site and search the forums for details on how to do this. It is called "potting".

3) Then, if the deck damage is bad enough, look at the epoxy injection or core replacement.

Hope this helps.

JK


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## sailingdog

This, like most other "quick-fix" methods generally results in a pretty lousy repair. Epoxy does not adhere to wet core materials as a general rule and this type of repair doesn't really dry the core out. In most cases, the water has taken months to penetrate the balsa core, and unless the core has disintegrated almost completely, it will take a long time for it to yield up the water it has taken so long to absorb.

Letting the epoxy saturate the area in this method will make replacing the core material when you do a proper repair job much more difficult. *If you're going to fix this, please do it the right way and remove one side of the laminate, clear out the wet core material and then replace it and then glass in a new skin to replace what you removed. *



travlineasy said:


> I have some wet spots on my 33 Morgan's deck near the mast boot. The boot is completely sealed, but nonetheless there are wet spots. I talked with a fiberglass repair guy at the marina who said he can fix the problem by drilling a few holes in the top of the cabin, then attaching a Hi-Vac to the lowest hole and over a period of a few days, draw the water from the balsa core. He then pours acetone into the highest hole while the Hi-Vac is still running and draws it through the core to finish the drying process. Next, he pours a very slow drying Epoxy into the highest hole, again while the Hi-Vac is still running. When the Epoxy resin reaches the Hi-Vac he shuts it down, waits about 4 days, then seals the fares the openings. He said the process essentially solidifies that portion of the core that was previously wet, adheres it tightly to the surrounding fiberglass, and does not add a significant amount of weight. No, it's not as good as new, but if everything goes well it should last about 20 years, which is longer than I'll probably be on Planet Earth.
> 
> Good luck, and keep us posted on how the repairs progress,
> 
> Gary


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## travlin-easy

I'll let you know if it works!  I'll also let you know if it does not work. I was told that using the Hi-Vac system that 99-percent of the moisture will be removed, but it's not something that takes a few hours--it takes days of constant high-vacuum suctioning before the acetone is injected for the completion of the drying process. At today's labor prices, the cost of replacing the core and then re-doing the deck surfaces would likely be higher than the cost of the boat. Hey, if I get another 10 years out of this old tub, and I don't loose too many of my body parts in the next decade, I'll be more than happy with the repair. A decade from now both me and the boat will be ready for the scrap yard. 

Cheers,

Gary


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## Maine Sail

travlineasy said:


> I'll let you know if it works!  I'll also let you know if it does not work. I was told that using the Hi-Vac system that 99-percent of the moisture will be removed, but it's not something that takes a few hours--it takes days of constant high-vacuum suctioning before the acetone is injected for the completion of the drying process. At today's labor prices, the cost of replacing the core and then re-doing the deck surfaces would likely be higher than the cost of the boat. Hey, if I get another 10 years out of this old tub, and I don't loose too many of my body parts in the next decade, I'll be more than happy with the repair. A decade from now both me and the boat will be ready for the scrap yard.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Gary


Gary,

PLEASE keep in mind that acetone can SOFTEN and can potentially DESTROY any bonding you have left between the balsa and the glass skins. I have seen the results of both drill & fill and vacuum dried/filled decks. I can assure you it is a band-aid at best. If the boat was hand laid the resin usually just rides the kerfs but the acetone has already softened the bond so you really get...well .. a high tech solution that really solves little... You can almost always excavate and do it right in less time. You still have to fix all your drill holes anyway so paint or gelcoat are going to happen either way. I often wonder if any of these yards charging an arm & leg for these "solutions" ever have a cut away section of deck they can show a customer? I know why they don't...


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## sailingdog

And setting up this vacuum system, as well as using the acetone, over the course of days is going to be less expensive? Cutting off the old skin, scraping out the bad balsa core material, and then re-coring it is probably simpler and faster than trying to dry the existing core, and certainly more likely to result in a sound repair.



travlineasy said:


> I'll let you know if it works!  I'll also let you know if it does not work. I was told that using the Hi-Vac system that 99-percent of the moisture will be removed, but it's not something that takes a few hours--it takes days of constant high-vacuum suctioning before the acetone is injected for the completion of the drying process. At today's labor prices, the cost of replacing the core and then re-doing the deck surfaces would likely be higher than the cost of the boat. Hey, if I get another 10 years out of this old tub, and I don't loose too many of my body parts in the next decade, I'll be more than happy with the repair. A decade from now both me and the boat will be ready for the scrap yard.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Gary


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## travlin-easy

The two estimates for re-coring the wet areas were both in excess of $15,000. The Band-Aid approach will be about $1,900. Labor charges alone averaged $75 to $100 per hour. Some fiberglass guys are charging as much as $130 an hour in the upper Chesapeake Bay area. I would hate to think what the labor charges would be in Annapolis.

BTW: I have seen wet transoms in power boats dried out using the Hi-Vac technique with excellent results. Of course, in the case of a deck you are dealing with a nearly horizontal surface, while the transom is nearly vertical so drainage may be more effective with transom repairs. I know of at least one instance of transom repair that has held up for at least 12 years. It was done on a 210 Proline powered with a 150-HP Mercury outboard that is transom mounted. Obviously, I haven't seen a cutaway section of decking or transom that has been repaired using this technique so I couldn't tell you anything about the bonding. If anyone has some photos and documentation of this I would really appreciate it if they were posted.

Cheers,

Gary


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## sailingdog

TravelinEasy—

Doing a core repair like what you describe isn't rocket science and doesn't require a whole lot in the way of esoteric tools or knowledge.

Depending on the size of the area, your skill at fiberglass repair, and such, you could probably do this for less than $500 or so in materials in a weekend. Several of the boating magazines have had articles regarding this exact subject in the past five years.


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## eherlihy

West describes the procedure that Dog and Maine are strongly suggesting here.


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## johnnyandjebus

I will be dealing with this type of repair in the coming weeks so I have an interest in this thread. The repair solution SD and maine are proposing makes sense in my circumstance with one small but important problem, the cosmetic finish of the deck after the repair. I have minor water damage(as far as I can tell) around one of my stanchion bases and could "fix" the problem by drilling holes thru the non-skid, and then re-paint the non-skid(currently non-diamond finish). If I cut thru the deck to repair/replace the core as suggested I will have to re-gelcoat.
So, does anyone have any advice or can you point me to a resource that can provide info on how to apply gelcoat? I understand that I will not get a perfect colour match but I am hoping for something close.

Any thoughts?

John


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## Wingnut247

*Thank you sir... may I have another.*



JKCatalina310 said:


> Congrats on the recent purchase. Good luck with her.


Thanks



JKCatalina310 said:


> If it was me, here is what I would do:
> 
> 1) The water coming into the deck is the first problem... I would suggest you go to Maine Sail's site and searching these forums for details on how to do this.


GREAT site link. Looks like the way to go. I have rebedded a small sailboat before... while I feel like I did a good job, I see now that I could have done a little better. (Flare/counter sink) Live and learn... I will try this technique at the end of summer on the rest of the boat (that is not leaking yet) as well as the repair to the current problem spot.

Very helpful thanks.



JKCatalina310 said:


> 2) If you core damage around the deck hardware, you should fix this before you re-bed the hardware...


Yes... otherwise I'd seal in the moisture and the problem would get worse.



JKCatalina310 said:


> 3) Then, if the deck damage is bad enough, look at the epoxy injection or core replacement.


Yeah. With it being a small area (and not under the mast or vital chain plate), I think I will try the epoxy injection first (time and money being a factor). If the problem comes back... I will re-core.



JKCatalina310 said:


> Hope this helps.
> JK


Yes Thanks.

Now two new questions...

1). How fast do you think this problem will spread?

2). The weather is crappy for the next couple months. Temperature in the 30's to low 40's and rain right now. What can/should I do to prevent more damage with "quick" damage control fix?

Thanks

-Wingnut247


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## eherlihy

johnnyandjebus said:


> I will be dealing with this type of repair in the coming weeks so I have an interest in this thread. The repair solution SD and maine are proposing makes sense in my circumstance with one small but important problem, the cosmetic finish of the deck after the repair. I have minor water damage(as far as I can tell) around one of my stanchion bases and could "fix" the problem by drilling holes thru the non-skid, and then re-paint the non-skid(currently non-diamond finish). If I cut thru the deck to repair/replace the core as suggested I will have to re-gelcoat.
> So, does anyone have any advice or can you point me to a resource that can provide info on how to apply gelcoat? I understand that I will not get a perfect colour match but I am hoping for something close.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Just this:
WEST SYSTEM | Projects | Fiberglass Boat Repair and Restoration - Repair non-skid and get professional results

And MAS Epoxies sells FlexMold - which provides the manufacturer non-skid pattern.

(follow the links)


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## captflood

Greetings all, if you use a ink refill syringe small holes on 45 degree angles pump in unthickened epoxy, this will bond together and gives good results. If using from undernithe small hole lets the wet area drain and can be blocked with a match or twig. when you have drilled your holes put some tape over the same selotape or insulation tape, pierce with needle of seryinge when epoxy ouses out wipe and place heavy weight over to keep constant pressure over area when cured remove weights and tape this should leave a nice neat neary, undetecable repair. Weather is a joke from God we just make use of it so enjoy what he gives. GO SAFE


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## Sanduskysailor

Soft spot projects have a tendency to grow. These are pictures from a spot spot project last winter in my cockpit sole. The plan was to cut out plywood core around pedestal and replace it with solid glass. The boat was indoors in a heated space and had about 2 months to dry out. After cutting out suspect area we checked surrounding area with a moisture meter and found water had migrated. Ended up replacing entire cockpit sole. Plywood in aft area, solid glass in are where rudder posts and pedestal penetrated the sole and balsa in forward area of the cockpit. I ended up having it done professionally although I would have done it myself if I had the time. Cost around $2700

Things we found out. Once water saturates a core there is no good way to completely dry it out in place. Areas where there are deck penetrations should be solid glass. I probably never have to worry about this area again.


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## Sanduskysailor

*Recore pics*

Oops. Pics didn't load the 1st time.


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## sync

Hey there,

Im going to revive this thread because I just finished my recore and I figured I would share my experiences and a bunch of pictures with everyone. I really couldn't find very many people with definite answers on how these things were done and I got a lot of mixed opinions from people who had never done it. I did find a lot of good information both on and off this site, and I figured I would give a little back. I did learn that a lot of people would consider soft decks to be a reason to write off an old boat. After actually doing to work and seeing exactly how involved it is, I really think it can be very practical for someone with reasonable handyman skills to do themselves (barring situations where the entire deck needs to be done). If a 3-5 foot section of soft deck is the only major thing standing between you and the boat of your dreams, its very doable. So, with that being said, heres the story:

I had a soft deck along the starboard side between the windows and lifelines which was approx. 1 foot x 8 feet stretching all the way along the side involving the areas where the chain plates went through the deck, as well as the area where the lifelines were mounted. I figured out that my portlights, which leaked every time there was a heavy rain, were the reason the water was getting into the deck. I also suspected the chainplates so I also dealt with them, noted below. Dealing with this area was extremely complicated by the rigging and lifelines so I was forced to have the boat hauled and blocked, I also had the boat demasted. Fortunately, I already had other reasons for having the boat out and demasted so it was easy to justify spending the $$. So, after removing the chainplates, (which needed to be replaced from water damage) I took a hammer, marked the dull areas, and took my 4 inch angle grinder and carefully cut through the top laminate only and set it aside. (I was careful not to damage it because it was going to be glued back in place instead of reglassing the whole area). This was pretty easy because the area was completely delaminated and mushy. Heres what I found:









The plywood (1/2 inch plywood FYI, to the other 70's Catalina 27 owners out there) was completely soaked and had a nice dirty rot smell to it. It was quite lovely. It then took me about an hour or two with the same grinder and a very course wheel to grind all the rotten wood out down to the smooth lower laminate. Catalina, I found out, likes to skimp on the lower laminate, using one single layer of 1.5 oz matt as a lower laminate. So naturally, I ground right through it to the headliner, which only extended to within an inch or so of the deck to hull joint. Momentary panic led to an easy fix where I took 1.5 oz glass mat and extended the headliner to the hull. It can't be seen on the inside unless you lay on your back on the counter top, and even then, it looks pretty good. At this point, I had created a lower laminate of the deck that would hold water, or the laminating resin I was going to use to glue to the new wood in (important if you dont want to clean up a mess of resin seeping into the cabin.) Heres what it looked like when I was done cleaning it up:









After doing this, I realized how easy it is to accidentally grind all the way through the bottom layer. Expect it, it will happen. Just be ready with something to patch it so you can continue with the job and pretty it up later.
At this point, I had completely gutted an 8 foot section of deck in a little less than 3 hours, (not including removing all the deck hardware).

The next step would be to let dry if necessary, clean with a good degreaser and make sure you have a good surface for bonding.

For the new core, I bought a grade A-B 4x8 sheet of marine ply (1/2"), which was about $70! (Didn't see that one coming). They only sell it in 4x8 sheets so take that into consideration. I used less than half of it for the project...
I then took the top laminate pieces which I cut out earlier and, with a pencil, used them as a stencil to cut the new core to fit.

I bought all my supplies from Fiberglass Coatings Inc in St. Petersburg, FL. They are very knowledgeable and have absolutely everything you need for a fiberglass project. One of the reasons this job was successful was there are several people there that used to work for big name boat builders. It was a huge help to have those guys for advice. He had advised me to use a bonding putty for the laminates, however, after trying it, I found it too hard to work with and went to a polyester resin thickened with cavacill (Spelling??). I thickened it to a toothpaste consistancy and spread it as thick as I could on both the lower laminate and the core material, mushed it down, placed sand bags on top for weight, and sunk wood screws through the bottom laminate into the wood to draw it down. I then covered the project to protect it from the morning dew, and let it cure overnight. 









In the morning, I mixed some more thickened resin and poured it into the voids between the cracks where the new core and old core joined, and anywhere else it needed.
At this point, the new core was still square and had a bit too much thickness in some places, and had to be built up in others. This was one of the things that originally worried me about a project like this. Think about it, you have a boat with many curves, concave and convex areas. If you ask for core material at the supply store, they give you a completely flat, 4x8 sheet of ply. This is probably the hardest part of the whole job, making everything fit naturally.

I once again got out my trusty angle grinder with the course wheel and started grinding down the wood in the places where the upper laminate needed room to sink. I had the top skin set aside within reach so I could dry fit it every so often to make sure I don't grind too much in any particular area. 









After I ground down all the areas that needed to sink, I then started marking all the areas that needed to be built up. I mixed about a qt of thickened polyester resin (a little thicker than before) and spread it with a large putty knife and a paint stirrer as a squeegee, smoothing it out as much as I could. After that dried, I took the angle grinder and ground it down smooth, dry fitting the skin and grinding some more until it fit snugly. I actually had to do this step twice before I got it completely right, mixing a second batch of resin and grinding again. Heres what it looked like after that:









After all that is done, It was pretty easy. Clean the under side of the top skin, make sure the core was sanded smooth and clean, mix another batch of resin, same as before, slap on a thick layer on both sides, and mash down. Put down plastic and sandbags and let it sit overnight. 









After letting it cure, all there is to do is glass in the seams. I took the grinder and ground a 2 inch wide gutter along the entire seam of the project. This gives you room to take strips of glass mat and reinforce the seams for strength. 
















I then cut 1 inch wide strips of the 1.5oz mat and glassed in the seams with two layers, came back with the grinder to smooth it out, and followed up with a thickened epoxy and put a layer over the seams with a squeegee. This helped as a final step to smooth out the seams and fill any last minute voids. One last go over with the grinder and it was ready for paint. I used the epoxy as a last step instead of polyester because it is a lot stronger and harder and it readily bonds to just about anything, including cured polyester resin. However, I was careful to make this my last step because, once I used the epoxy, I could no longer go back and use polyester in that area. (Epoxy sticks to polyester, but polyester doesnt stick to epoxy).
So here it is:









After this picture, I spend several hours with a sander to smooth out any remaining bumps and some acetone to clean up stray drops of resin. It cleaned up much nicer but I dont have a later picture. During the project, I also found it a perfect oportunity to make epoxy beds for my chainplates. This gave me a lot of peace of mind that it wont destroy my deck again if they start leaking in the future. I would really recommend everyone do this. Over the course of the last year, I've done this to pretty much every piece of deck hardware I have. 

















This entire project cost me just $250 in supplies and 3 days. It only really took me that long because of curing times, and I could have done it maybe $30 cheaper if I new what I know now about the putty.

Also, there is a huge debate on this site about what is better or more cost/benefit effective: Drill and fill options like CPES or just recoring. After this project, I also decided to use a product called Stop Rot on another, much smaller soft spot on the other side of my deck. Ill keep you posted on the longer term results of both.

Well, this has been extremely long winded, and I'm not the greatest at explaining things, but I hope this helps everyone else thinking of taking on a project like this... Feel free to message me with any questions. I really have been wanting to put this experience down in writing because I don't think there are enough people out there speaking from experience on this topic. I really found it hard to find pictures of actual recore jobs or people who had successfully done it before. I hope this answers some questions. 
Comments anyone?


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## TQA

Proper job! 

Much better than leaving that nasty soggy rotten plywood insitu and dripping in some epoxy and hoping for the best.


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## Memopad

Whoever came up with the drill and fill method should be shot on sight. Or even better, drilled with holes and filled with something painfull, and then shot. Yes I'm bitter.

All the deck area on my boat was drilled with holes in a 2x2in grid pattern and filled with epoxy. The decks were not soft, so maybe this method does "work". However, there were large areas of rotten core, and soaking wet core. I probably pulled gallons of water out of my decks. The boat had always been stored inside heated so this wasn't an issue. I have no doubt that one winter in freezing conditions and the boat would've been FUBAR. 

So I'm doing the proper core repair, cutting the top skin off, pulling out the balsa core and replacing. Not a bad job really, but made so so soooo much worse by the idiots doing the drill and fill bs. Really fun to pull the top skin and the core out when you have an epoxy column to cut through every two inches, and a pile of nasty half rotten wood half epoxy layer on the bottom skin to grind off. Someone's previous "repair" has increased the time on my end 10x easy. 

Drill and fill should only be used in delaminated areas that have a completely dry and sound core. Otherwise you're just giving the finger to whatever poor sob comes next.


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## Ajax_MD

Damn fine job Sync. Hiya Memo! (Ajax)


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## MastUndSchotbruch

*Great job ... but I would still make some changes*

Very nice job, and thank you for sharing! I have pretty much the same job in my close future (in a month or so).

There are two things that I am thinking about doing differently than you. One is to use epoxy all the way. I know it is more expensive than poly resin but with all the labor involved, I don't care if the materials are 20 bucks more or less, I want the best material, period.

The second is, instead of using one long strip of plywood, I am considering cutting it into several smaller pieces (not sure yet how small) and basically butt-end them with thin epoxy seams between them. This is for two reasons. First, as you emphasized, the deck is not flat as the plywood sheet which required you to do quite a bit of grinding and sanding. I hope to minimize this by using smaller pieces. Second, plywood is known to transport water along its grain. If, Heaven forbid, there is another water intrusion in the future(despite the counter measures you describe and that I will also adopt), I hope that it will then stop at the boundaries between the pieces.

Comments welcome!


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## sync

I like the idea of separating the core into smaller pieces. I wish I would have thought of that. I did it in two pieces. I also cut the topskin off in two, more manageable pieces. I definitely recommend that, it made my life so much easier when I went to relaminate everything and replace the skin. Its also a good idea just to use epoxy all the way through. I didn't know enough about the difference between the two until I had already committed. I just went with what they recommended. Again, you can't very well disagree with someone who used to build boats for a living, at least I couldn't at the time. I did use almost 2 gallons of boatyard polyester by the time I was done though...its about $40 a gallon, so that would have gotten a bit pricy....But I agree, if you're going to go through all those headaches, you might as well do it right. Use epoxy, use poly, just stay away from that bonding putty.... 

As for the drill and fill option, I think it has its place in the very small and isolated areas. If it is less than 2 square feet, and hasn't spread farther than that, there isn't that much moisture there.....As long as you dry it out as much as you can, I don't see a problem with it. After doing a full recore, theres no way I would go through all that trouble for one or two isolated spots....Just my very humble opinion..... Anything bigger than the 1-2 feet, I wouldn't use it. There are plenty of people in my marina who have used that method with success. I live next to a guy who has been a naval engineer for 30+ years and has fixed his deck several years ago using Rot Stop. Its still solid as a rock.... Again, small isolated areas of course.

The area I used it on was only about 16" x 8"


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## travlin-easy

The best Non-Skid resurfacing I've seen lately is Kiwi-Grip. You can find the details at Anti-skid Boat Decks from Pachena LLC - KiwiGrip anti-slip deck coating

BTW: after reading dozens of posts pertaining to the drill & fill technique, I'm having serious, second thoughts about having a full core replacement done. At this point, though, I'm awaiting estimates from at least three sources. It's just amazing at how lackluster these folks seem to be. Two weeks and no responses to phone calls or emails. You would think they would want to make some money, but I guess not.

Good Luck,

Gary


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## casey1999

What is the story with Epoxy and Polyester? I did not think Polyester would bond to Epoxy. So say I have a fiberglass boat and I don't know if it is poly or Epoxy- do I use Epoxy to make sure it bonds?


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## tommays

Most boats were built out of poly with a bunch of secondary poly bonds and did petty good 

BUT every piece of original poly secondary bonded bulkhead or other part i have repaired came apart to easy

Any of the original layup done in one piece is brick sh## house strong 

So they will both work with the correct technique BUT i have found epoxy to have a lot more ability to be blended with different fillers and hardeners


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## jrd22

Nice job you did and good writeup. Thanks for taking so many pics and posting them, like you say not many actually do this job so first hand experience is hard to get. Goodonya!


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## eherlihy

Before Dan Pffeifer's PearsonInfo.net website went away, I copied many of the files pertaining to the Pearson 33-2. One group of files was a series of photos of the manufacture of the 33-2 including the deck that one of the original owners of a Pearson 33 had taken. I wish that I knew who had taken the photos because I would gladly credit them here.

Anyway, these pictures show how a BALSA cored deck is built. You can see that the balsa is cut into many 2" squares, and that is how Pearson was able to craft the decks into complex curves.

The deck was built upside down in the mold;








The guys in this picture are laying resin (polyester probably) into the gaps between the little squares of balsa...









The assembled deck curing; (or it was break time)









I believe that the next step would be to cover the entire structure with another, thin, coat of glass roving (or two) and wet it out.

Here is the headliner (built right side up)


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## MastUndSchotbruch

Great pics! 

Only thing I am wondering how they put the deck onto the inner liner and made sure that they have good lamination between them everywhere? There must be a trick to that. I epoxied a few square feet of a shell onto a substrate (a part of one half of a split rudder) and was concerned that I would have air inclusions. I buttered the heck out of both parts (meaning, onto both parts) and then put a lot of weight (bricks) onto the shelf but in the end I am still not 100% sure there is absolutely no cavity hidden. I can't imagine doing this with a whole DECK!


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## CuriousChris

Hi
I just finished removing the rotted core out of the cockpit of my 1975 Tanzer 22. I am completely new to the world of fiberglass boat repair but I eventually got it done. It is rock solid now. Its an area roughtly 24 x 70 inches if I remember correctly.
I expect that I will be doing this in other spots as I discover more wet core.

I've documented what I did on my web site.
Christine DeMerchant Repairs the Wet floor of her Tanzer22

Christine DeMerchant Repairs the Wet floor of her Tanzer22

I took quite a low teck approach in removing the rotted plywood because the bottom layer was very fragile. Once stripped out the job went fast and rebuild was easier than I thought it would be.

I use MAS epoxy but any good system will work I expect. I like that it does not blush.

I'm not sure I worked terribly efficiently but I'm confident that my repair is solid and sound.
Have a look, and good luck.
Christine


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## arf145

Nicely documented, Christine! Looking at the work made my back ache a little though


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## CuriousChris

arf145 said:


> Nicely documented, Christine! Looking at the work made my back ache a little though


The back took a beating but what was much worse was the prickly fiberglass. I itched solidly for 3 weeks.

My boat club friends suggested a cold shower to dislodge the fiberglass, that seemed just plain sadistic.

What do other people do about fiberglass itch?

Tanzer 22, 
hull 866


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## kenatech

*Cored deck spot repair*

Over 10 years ago I was asked to repair a trawler with loose teak decking. When I took up the first section of teak, I discovered that the glass deck underneath was very spongy. The wood core was soaked and rotten, on the bow, stern, and both sides of the cabin. I carefully cut away the top layer of glass, removed all the rotted core, which was lauan plywood. I then filled the core area with good quality marine plywood, totally bedded in West epoxy, then bedded the top layer of glass back into place with epoxy. Once it was all cured, I was able to replace the teak decking. The owner kept the boat until a couple years ago, and as far as I know the deck was still solid. Except for fairly small areas, I believe that replacing the core is the best way to assure that the problem will not recurr.

Tom Kenat 
The Ship's Carpenter
Medina, Ohio


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## CuriousChris

Thanks Tom
Looks like you're right. There are lots of people offering drill and fill solution but no one is endorsing them (except people who sell it).
I will keep in mind that I will need to gradually open and fix the wood core areas.
Christine


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## travlin-easy

Scotch, clear, Packing Tape does a great job of removing the glass slivers from your hide. Just make a loop of it around your hand, sticky side out, and roll it down your arms. You'll probably lose a few arm hairs in the process as well.

As for the drill and fill process, I'll let you know how things are progressing. I hope to get the Morgan back next week, and I'll be running a hydro-meter over the repair areas to see if they dried out or not. I'll let you know.

Gary


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## pmcguire

One method of re-coring is to remove the bottom laminate and core from the underside. This leaves the deck non-skid intact. Yes, upside down laminating is not pleasant, but can be done. 

After removing the old core from underneath, you can replace it with Balsa or any other core. Core materials are very light and with epoxy, heavily thickened with fumed silica (Cabosil/Aerosil), it is not difficult to stick the new core to the old top laminate. For large areas, you can do a square foot or several square feet at a time and prop in place, if necessary, with a thin sheet of plwood, waxed or covered with Visqueen. 

After the thickened epoxy has set up but is not fully cured, laminate over the new core with at least two layers of 1708. 1708 is a biaxial with a stitch mat(no binders). Wet out the semi-cured new core with a good amount of epoxy using a 4" or 7" roller, then apply the glass, wetting out the glass and keeping it in place till saturated. Once fully wet out it will stay in place and not come off. Just in case, keep an eye on it and be ready to catch it before it sags.

One more tip, for better wet out, heat your resin before mixing. I have successfully laminated with US Composites epoxy heated to as high as 120F. I use a cheapo digital meat thermometer, stuck into the epoxy jug.

Obviously, this type of repair only is applicable to boats with a removable headliner.


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## CuriousChris

Thanks for the tip about getting fiberglass out of my hide. Sounds like the little lint rollers I use to get cat hair off my clothe!! I'll put one in the toolbox. Thanks!!
I look forward to your posts as to the result of your repair.
Christine


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## CuriousChris

Working from underneath seems very unpleasant. 
I think it would be less time consuming than refinishing the top though.
I don't think I have a removable headliner. 
I might still be able to cut from the underside. OH that would just be so much fun. 
Thanks for taking the time to explain the process. It sounds like it would work very well and might be the way to go for a smaller repair.
Christine


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## jfdubu

Just out of coureosity, has anyone thought of or used the styrofoam insulation panels rather than plywood or balsa? My guess is it would be as strong as balsa, not so much with plywood. But it would never absorb any more water and would be much easier to form to the cavity.

I've made plug molds with it using west system epoxy so the chemicals shouldn't dissolve the panel.

John


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## JimsCAL

jfdubu said:


> Just out of coureosity, has anyone thought of or used the styrofoam insulation panels rather than plywood or balsa? My guess is it would be as strong as balsa, not so much with plywood. But it would never absorb any more water and would be much easier to form to the cavity.
> 
> I've made plug molds with it using west system epoxy so the chemicals shouldn't dissolve the panel.
> 
> John


Foam is used by some builders. While it doesn't rot, any water that gets in travels much easier and the area of delamination is much greater. The advantage to end grain balsa is that any water travels pretty slowly, confining the damage.


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## travlin-easy

There was a recent article in one of the boating magazines pertaining to the use of various core materials, with balsa listed as the best wood because of its structural integrity being higher than marine plywood. The same article talked about teak V/S some of the new composite, faux-woods such as Trex, and others currently used for decking material. The biggest problem with any of this is the change in weight distribution over what the boat was originally designed for.

A number of small boat manufacturers, such as Boston Whaler, use a dense form of foam that injected between the inner and outer hulls. The foam is very adhesive, and delamination is extremely rare. For transoms, nearly all powerboat manufacturers have switched to using a honeycomb, fiberglass core that is incredibly strong, it is tightly adhered to the inner and outer hulls and weighs next to nothing. The beauty of this approach is that when screws, through-hulls, etc.. are inserted through the hull(s) if they spring a leak it's confined to one, small chamber and does not effect the rest of the hull.

Cheers,

Gary


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## lisens2chill

*Catalina's?????*

It's disturbing that so many Catalina's seem to have this deck problem. My 42 Catalina also has a hollow spot. I first discovered it (only owned the boat a few months) when I was washing it and noticed a different tone, when the water hit the deck, in one spot. I'm going to use the technique outlined by travlineasy. wish me luck.


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## travlin-easy

It has been several months since I did the drill and fill. A couple weeks ago I had a local surveyor bring his hydro-meter to the marina and check the areas that were treated, and the adjacent areas. So far there is no indication of moisture intrusion and I hope the core remains dry. This nasty, winter weather will be the true test of time. If the core is still dry in early April, I'll be sanding the decks, removing most of the hardware and repainting everything above the hull to cabin joint. All of the fixtures will be rebedded and sealed before reattachment, then it's a summer of fun sailing before heading south to the Florida Keys in October. 

Good Luck,

Gary


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## sync

Hey all,
Its good to see this thread still alive.... I started this thread a little over a year ago asking for advice on recoring the deck of my C-27. I posted pictures of the process in page 3 of this thread, and I used both the drill and fill method as well as the full blown recore with marine ply on two different areas. Everything's still solid, still haven't fixed my dang nonskid though.... Thanks for everyone's input!


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## HDChopper

Thanks for the report back sync 

Travlineazy I'd bet there is a stellar year ahead of you & the Admiral ...


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## anthemj24

Paul Calder is dong a rehab of a Cape Dory and recoring a good part of the deck as a result. Lots of details here:

Sail Feed

Having Nigel Calder as your father is probably really useful when going into a project like this.


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## Waltthesalt

Go to the West System website. go to projects. download the Fiberglass Boat & Repair and Maintenance manual (free) . It's the bible for this kind of work. chapter 5 deals with cored deck repair. also on the home page click on repairing your fiberglass boat and there's an article in the subject from there EpoxyWorks on line magazine


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## travlin-easy

RottenBilge said:


> I always found that this helped me when fixing my deck http://howtofixstuff.blogspot.com/2012/01/how-to-build-deck.htmll


The link doesn't seem to work.

Gary


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## smurphny

I recored 80% of the decks on my old A35. The main problem with production boats is that they often did not use enough resin to saturate the balsa. Water around chain plates is common and IMO unavoidable. There IS no sure way to keep water out and once in, it stays there essentially forever, finding bare wood and promoting rot. It's why I moved my chainplates outside after doing all that work to replace the rotted core. 

A larger problem than the core, which is pretty easy to replace, is what the water may have done to the bulkheads below. I wound up replacing one large bulkhead that had turned to mush. Replacing bulkheads requires a some major surgery and a lot more skill to accomplish without doing too much damage. If anyone reading this gets into swapping a bulkhead , I have some valuable tips, just pm me.


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## Quinn99

Looking for a little reinforcement!!! Working on a 1978 Catalina 27.

After a ton of research, I decided to go for the peel the skin option. As sync mentioned, I was able to make quick work of peeling back a 6-8 ft section using a dremel to cut a nice clean line in the skin. As suspected, the wood was soaked (due to years of window leaks & improperly bedded hardware). The good news - I was able to quickly scrape out the wood and clean the whole area. The bad news - is that there is only one sheet of fiberglass underneath the wood. The inner liner is quite thick, but that stops 2" short of the hull. This means that I only have a 30+ year old layer of brittle fiberglass mat for the length of the hull where the liner ends to the hull. 

My plan was to cut away a 8ft length on the starboard & port side and let it dry out over the winter - then glass, laminate & glue the skin in the spring. I am worried about the structural integrity now if I cut away an 8ft length on each side and am thinking that I will need to do this in sections to make sure the integrity remains.

Plan A - clean out and dry out a section, add a layer or two of glass, then continue.

Plan B - try and add a layer of glass tape from underneath first, then cut away the rest. My concern with this is that I am glassing in the brittle sheet, need to glass upside down and in very tight quarters.

Plan C - Panic 

I am going to post some photos shortly as soon as I figure out how to do that.

Would love to hear from any C27 owners who have taken on this project. I feel like I have most of the skills to do this job. My plan was to cut away, clean out, re-laminate ply and hire a professional glass person to do the final top layer glassing - either by putting the skin back down or by laying new mat. I was going to paint the top with quik grip so not concerned about the tread pattern.

Thoughts???


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## Quinn99




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## boatpoker

Injecting epoxy or any other resin into a degraded and probably wet core does not accomplish much but a false sense of security. the deck may feel sound but what you really have is a free floating lump of epoxy that could not possible stick to wet degraded core.

If your deck is truly the structure to which your chain plates are backed then it must be made strong enough to take all the loads of your rigging..... bite the bullet and re-core.

Take a look at "Balsa = Compost" . If your deck is plywood the condition is worse than wet balsa.

PS. The acetone thing doesn't work. I pumped acetone into one spot for 3 years and when I finally decided to do it right and open her up she was sopping wet.


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## Quinn99

I am committed to doing a re-core. The wet wood I found in the first section confirmed that this is the only option. I just want to make sure I do a good job of it.

Thanks for the Balsa & Plywood posts!


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## Quinn99

With the skin peeled










Cleaned up










The gap where the thin mat broke away.










You can see how thin the skin is.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CalebD

Yep, deja vu all over again!
I did a similar deck re-core on my boat this past spring.
2013, May 2nd. Re-core work party. | Odalisque

What new core material are you planning on using?
I do recommend the core material I used, polypropylene honeycomb core: honeycomb at Express Composites, Inc.


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## flo617

I have just started addressing the soft spot in the back of my cockpit today. Probably water ingress from the rudder post.

I was going to do it from the top but decided to go from the bottom after I realized that my fiberglass is much thicker on the top than on the bottom. On my boat the bottom is a mere skin while the top is much thicker. I feel that cutting through that layer is much safer.

Something to consider


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## gts1544

*Gentlemen;* Just passing on a thought! Awhile ago, I was looking at a larger boat, whose owner was actually present during her construction. When I inquired about soft decks, he explained that the deck core was constructed of 3" squares of wood, separated by a small gap, which filled with epoxy prior to the fiberglass upper layer. This prevented spreading of moisture in the core due to the numerous small epoxy "dams". Only the specific piece of wood could be affected! Clever! Comments! George


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## travlin-easy

George, sounds like a good idea. However, if I were a boat builder, I think I would use the honeycomb fiberglass construction that is frequently used on the sterns of powerboats. It's extremely strong, lightweight, and you never have to worry about it absorbing moisture. The use of wood for a boat core, IMO, is archaic. When will sailboat builders get their heads out of the sands of tradition?

When I purchased my Morgan 33 O.I. it had moisture in an area of the cabin top core. I had it drilled and filled, and thus far, after three years, no moisture there. However, just this past summer, during a heavy rain, water began seeping into the cabin overhead and dripping through a hole over the quarter berth, soaking the cushion. I was able to dry the cushion OK, but thus far have not found the leak source. I found several toe rail screws that had not been sealed, and sealed them with 5200. Sometimes it can be difficult to find a leak source.

Gary


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## Brent Swain

With the option of synthetic foam which doesn't rot, why would anyone use balsa in the first place?
It's almost guaranteed to give rot problems, eventually .


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## tommays

Wet core is just like building a steel sailboat and THEN NOT SANDBLASTING and coating and then bitching steel sucks 

ALL CORES will suffer from poor initial workmanship and lack of longterm care

It really does not matter if the foam does NOT ROT when it can be delaminated from water intrusion and freeze/thaw cycling


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## smurphny

When I was doing the recore on my decks, I did a lot of research into the best core material and decided that traditional balsa was still the best material to use. As Tom has mentioned above, the common problem with balsa core is that it was never properly saturated to isolate the individual blocks. That is totally avoidable if it's done properly. I would be very hesitant to do all that work and then trust in the long-term adhesion of epoxy or polyester resin to a plastic honeycomb surface. Once balsa is sealed and saturated it forms an extremely solid surface on which to apply the fg. 
Also, remember you need a 12:1 (or close to it) ratio on bevels, easily done with a grinder with a 60 grit sandpaper disk. Lay in the largest piece of glass first. West System has a good how-to page on this.


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## eherlihy

jfdubu said:


> Just out of coureosity, has anyone thought of or used the styrofoam insulation panels rather than plywood or balsa? My guess is it would be as strong as balsa, not so much with plywood. But it would never absorb any more water and would be much easier to form to the cavity.
> 
> I've made plug molds with it using west system epoxy so the chemicals shouldn't dissolve the panel.
> 
> John


Better than balsa, plywood or styrofoam (which has little strength in compression, and would therefore be a disaster), a friend of mine runs a company that produces MacroCore. This is the core material used by the US Navy for their new destroyer. It is a lightweight, epoxy based, high strength, closed cell syntactic foam which bonds well with epoxy based resins. Because it is epoxy based, MacroCore would not be affected by moisture. I used some in a small core repair that I did around a chainplate.

To learn more, see this link; MacroCore

They are not in the market for small boat repair, but if you contact me, I will make an inquiry on your behalf.

DISCLAIMER: I have no financial interest in this company or product. Merely passing on information about a little known option.


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## Quinn99

Spring is here and it is time to lay the new core. Little nervous but I am committed now.

Leaking windows was the key culprit for the wet core and I am rebedding all of those. There was marine ply there and I wanted feedback on potentially using a spray foam to fill in the gaps and add some structure to that area. It is not a huge area and would be difficult to laminate new wood. Not impossible, but difficult.

Thoughts?


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## deltaten

I have a soft-core/delaminated foredeck. Rather than pull all the hardware. andcut the good, top lamination; I'm going to do it from the inside. The pla n iS to use the. infusion/bagged vacuum system. The way my deck is "hatboxed" and raised 6 "or so, here's . 2"+ gap between the turn from vert into the hriz deck.. A couplen layeres of 1708 biax mat tack glued to the undersside of the (cleare- from-garbage) deck, lined with 6 mil bldrsplastic with a few intake and one.vac exhaust .. A couple of gallons of laminating resin and turn on the vac!
Bingo! 

That's the plan; and I'm (ahem) stick in' to it! 
The side decks are another feat of. engineering entirely!


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## Quinn99

So, I am almost done my core project, but am torn between laying new fiberglass over the core, or gluing the skin.

So far, I have laid a sheet of glass, glued the core down and was going to lay one more layer of glass. I was then going to glue the deck laminate down.

Plan B is to lay new glass and see if I can sand smooth. I am a bit nervous about this, but feel pretty good with the way the first half has went.

Questions:
- If I glue the skin down to new glass, do you think I still need to tape the seams with new glass as well?
- If I lay new glass, how much overlap would I need to reinforce properly.


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## Quinn99

Pics

























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Quinn99

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CalebD

Quinn99,

The answer always is: "It depends."
The basic rule is to fair out from your hole/crack/seam in a 12:1 width; so for a 1" deep hole you would fair out 12" and replace with new laminate.

I did my port side deck recore last year by re-gluing the top skin down. I did my stbd side deck recore this spring and re-laid new laminate for the top skin, which I think works better leaving no seam to fill.

The cloth that made building up the new laminate easy was a biaxial cloth I got from fiberglasssite.com - but I had to buy something like 10 yards of material, which is more than I need. I think that this biaxial cloth builds up close to 1/16" per layer which is a lot.

Here are some pics of my first re-core attempt where I re-used the top skin: 2013, May 2nd. Re-core work party. | Odalisque

PS: my port deck looks a lot like your pictures. I'm moving on to painting and trying to finish up this job.


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## Quinn99

Caleb - For your port side re-core where you re-glued the skin, do you think it would have been easier to bevel before you glued the skin down, or was it easy enough to do after? 

I am still considering laminating the skin down as my port side is not even. I have leveled it as best I can, but think that a thickened epoxy with the skin would help smooth the bond and ensure it is flat and even surface. I am not confidant that I could laminate new glass and get the same result. 

My starboard side is a different story as it is level and I would attempt attempt to glass it over. May try both???


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## Memopad

Quinn99 said:


> Caleb - For your port side re-core where you re-glued the skin, do you think it would have been easier to bevel before you glued the skin down, or was it easy enough to do after?
> 
> I am still considering laminating the skin down as my port side is not even. I have leveled it as best I can, but think that a thickened epoxy with the skin would help smooth the bond and ensure it is flat and even surface. I am not confidant that I could laminate new glass and get the same result.
> 
> My starboard side is a different story as it is level and I would attempt attempt to glass it over. May try both???


Won't hurt to try either way. I couldn't reuse the top skins when I recored my decks so I had to laminate new glass on about 75% of my boat. I can't even tell where the repairs were done with my eyes at deck level, and I'm pretty picky! When I did that project it was my first time working with epoxy and fiberglass too.

Getting the laminate or old skin level is a big help, but sanding and fairing can cover up a whooooole bunch of "oops".


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## Cruiser2B

QUINN99,

Looking good, I will be attempting this same type core project on my Alberg 30 this fall. Keep up the good work


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## mbowser

I've done it both ways, and I prefer the new skin approach. I found that re-using the existing skin would have been more work than to laminate new cloth in place. 

*One of the issues that you may run into reusing the existing skin is that you now have to bevel both the existing glass on the deck and the skin you are putting back in place in order to get your goal of 12:1 bevel for tape. The problem with bevels is that to do it efficiently, you generally use an angle grinder with 24 or 36 grit. It goes fast with this setup, but grinding bevels is a horrible, messy job unless you have access to a nice dustless grinder. I looked into them and they were pricey, if you can rent one, do so. I couldn't and ended up grinding bevels on roughly 120 linear feet of deck. If I had decided to re-use the skin, that figure would have been more than double. So for that reason alone it may be worth it to laminate new glass in place.

*Second issue is that when you get to the point of installing your old skin (after beveling and sanding the bottom side), laying it down and getting it to properly adhere to the new core can be unknown just by plopping it on and weighting it down. To be absolutely sure you have good contact between new core and old skin, you'd want to drill a pattern of holes in the old skin so that when you lay it onto the new core with epoxy, you get epoxy squeezing out the holes. Otherwise you can get bubbles of air under the skin that are trapped and prevent a good layup. This makes a lot of finish work required and all but negates any benefits of re-using the old skin.

Laminating with 2-4 layers of a 1708 biaxial fabric is not difficult and you'll be sure your layup is good. It will cost a little more because you'll need additional epoxy, and you'll have to purchase cloth and a bit of fairing compound.


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## Quinn99

Well, "almost done" was a bit of a stretch?! Finally there is an end in site. Unfortunately, work, rain and a two year old have slowed the process. Here is a few pics of the final stages.









































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## Quinn99

Now, the question of the day is "thoughts on finish"? I was planning on using either a quikGrip or non slip with sand. Anyone have input on either of these. I also have one fellow encouraging me to redo the non slip pattern with a wax mould. I am open but want to get this boy sail worthy soon before the season ends! Hoping to do a two week trip in three weeks


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## Hudsonian

I've had good experience with Kiwigrip. It's ridiculously easy to apply and can be easily textured to your taste. Sailnetters have discussed Kiwigrip application several times.


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