# Back-up motors



## ambitiousbutrubbish (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm planning a couple week sailing trip around the Caribbean next summer in a '45 Dufour. We're island hopping and in order to maximize time at our destination I was considering adding an outboard motor both as a back up and to squeeze a few more knots out when we don't have the sails up. Has anyone attempted this, or have a suggestion for something else I could do?


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

What’s wrong with the inboard auxiliary engine? Why do you think that an outboard would make it go faster? Why would a boat owner let you mess with his/her boat. Why would you bother for a couple of weeks?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

This is a non starter... Geoff's on the money with his comments. There's no need, really.... further, island hopping in the Caribbean is rarely a 'light wind' situation. Much more likely you should be reefing and turning the engine off rather than trying to squeeze some debatable speed increase from an outboard that likely won't even have the prop in the water half the time.

The engine will likely get the boat up to hull speed.. there's no further gain to be realized with another few horsepower poorly applied.


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## flyingjib (Mar 5, 2012)

Keep the main up and motor sail if there is not much wind. Your sails are your backup!


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## asdf38 (Jul 7, 2010)

Agree with others. How many sources of propulsion do you need? You have multiple sails and an engine already. It's a 45' boat, what difference are a few extra horsepower going to make?


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

An outboard would be silly. Use oars.


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

Siamese said:


> An outboard would be silly. Use oars.


That's not very seaman like - you should skull with a single oar.


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## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

My boat will go 7.9 kts with 75 HP. With 150 HP it will go 8.2 or 8.3. With 300 HP it will go 8.9. Take a Valium and enjoy the beauty of those big white things pulling you along.


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

on my py26,when i'm cruising i always keep a little outboard mounted on a stern bracket with 5 gallons of gas,it causes no problems and i only start it occasionally,the inboard diesel is much more fuel efficiant and no extra power is needed however under any conditions or circumstance i like to know i have my a** covered!


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Does this charter boat include a dinghy? Does it have a motor? If so, problem solved.

You could either lash the dinghy alongside and lock the OB so that it does not pivot and steer from the cockpit (although you will find that the boat tends to "pull" to one side), or you could tow the 45' (or did you really mean a circa 1945?) Dufor with the dink. If you choose the latter option, someone will have to be the tow boat skipper, and that person better take a waterproof handheld VHF to stay in touch with the mothership...

Personally, I would simply use the auxiliary if the SOG drops below 3 kts. Plan your trip around your ability to make 6 kts (assuming that you meant a 45' boat), and all will be good.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

If this is a charter - ask the charter company if you can mount the dinghy motor on the stern to get a few extra tenths of boat speed.

I guarantee you will shortly be told you don't have the experience necessary to charter the boat without a paid skipper.
Displacement boats have hull speeds that can't be surpassed except for brief surfing down a wave. There is a reason they are called auxiliary sailboats - the auxiliary is the engine meaning it's the secondary source of propulsion. The engines are sized to take the boat to hull speed in reasonable sea states at 3/4 throttle. 
Ask the charter company what happens with you max the throttle out for more than a brief burst - and tell them you really need that extra tenth of a knot to get to your destination quicker. Same results will occur, make space for a charter skipper. 

Lashing the dinghy to the side for a few tenths because the sea state is such that you are only making 5.5 knots is counter indicated by the very sea state you are trying to get through. Again, ask the charter company, and empty a berth for the skipper.

Now if this is a friends boat - absolutely ask the soon to be former friend if it's okay. 

As a backup when the engine dies and you have no wind - think about it - that outboard probably has 4 - 5 gallons of fuel at most, good for 4 to 5 hours of pushing the boat at 3 knots in flat water. Maximum range is easy to calculate - in flat water. Don't even try to tow a 45 footer with a 10 foot dinghy and a 9.9 (standard charter dinghy/ob). The dinghy will saw side to side and you'll get 2 knots of SOG to your destination. 

Use the sails if you want to get there faster. It's what they are for.


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

Ambitious,

Don't take the tone of the above posts too harshly -- they mean well.

The Dufour's got a diesel engine that should be more than sufficient to serve as a stand alone propulsion source.

While Chuckle's comments are a bit sharp, their underlying points are worth noting. With respect, I seem to think that you may be a tad bit inexperienced as far as bigger sailboats go. Since you've got almost a year to prep for the trip, I'd recommend you spend a fair amount of time boning up on the details. Take a stroll through the sailing section of your local bookstore and look for a boating title that includes the terms "cruising." You'll likely find the money well spent.

Hope you have a good time on the charter.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Sorry, didn't mean to be sharp - more tongue in cheek. 

Internet doesn't show that.


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

chucklesR said:


> Sorry, didn't mean to be sharp - more tongue in cheek.
> 
> Internet doesn't show that.


No worries, Chuck  I was just a little concerned that since this was his first post, Ambitious may not know you as the cantankerous but generous guy you really are (who, BTW, has finally realized the wisdom and joy of maintaining a single hull instead of two... )


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## ambitiousbutrubbish (Sep 17, 2012)

So if a secondary motor is a loser should I consider investing in a spinnaker to take advantage of wind directions that the jib and mainsail can't?


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## ambitiousbutrubbish (Sep 17, 2012)

btw this is not a charter, we've had the boat in the Chesapeake for about 10 years but use it sparingly, it is getting driven down to Florida in the spring, going out to sea for a few weeks and then most likely being put up for sale when it returns to port in Florida.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

If you are talking buying a sail then obviously it's not a charter.

Look at a asymmetrical or a code 0 instead of a spin - much easier to handle, especially as a furler.


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## Mobnets (Apr 24, 2011)

Ambitious:
Based on your original post and some of the responses, I think we need some clarification here before continuing. Do you own this boat already or are you planning to charter it? If you own it already, where is your home port?

Mobnets
1973 Paceship Chance 32/28 "Westwind"


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## Mobnets (Apr 24, 2011)

Mobnets said:


> Ambitious:
> Based on your original post and some of the responses, I think we need some clarification here before continuing. Do you own this boat already or are you planning to charter it? If you own it already, where is your home port?
> 
> Mobnets
> 1973 Paceship Chance 32/28 "Westwind"


OK, answered while I was typing the question
Mobnets


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## ambitiousbutrubbish (Sep 17, 2012)

We own the boat, its a 1998 Dufour 45 classic, and we keep it in Deale, MD, but it is getting driven by tractor trailer down to Florida for the trip.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

BLASPHEMY!






Hire one of us to sail it down there for you. It should be cheaper, and less bad for the boat.


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

Ambitious,

A couple of thoughts:

- Trucking the boat down's not gonna be cheap; if you can't afford the time to take it down yourself, either a volunteer crew or even a delivery captain may be well worth considering. 
- Since it's been used "sparingly," a shake-down cruise of some sort is certainly in order before you take her off-shore. Things that aren't used/exercised tend to deteriorate and often fail when put to the test after an period of inactivity.
- If you do intend to invest in a new foresail, check out Bacon's in Annapolis for a decent used sail. Seems to me that buying a new sail right before you sell the boat is almost guaranteed to lose you money.
- If you do decide to truck her down, then make sure the folks recommissioning her at the Florida end know their business and do a very thorough job -- if they don't, you may find your entire vacation period next summer will be spent at or very near the dock.

BTW, we keep PorFin at HHN in Deale. Where's your boat and what's her name?


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## ambitiousbutrubbish (Sep 17, 2012)

Trucking the boat isn't a final decision, but regardless cost is not a huge issue. I was thinking a trip from Deale to Ocean City would be a good little trial run for us sometime in April of next year. I suppose if the boats already in the water at that point it seems a little silly to pull it and drive it down by truck. Do you know where I could find a reliable delivery captain? 

Quantell is currently dry docked at HHN, but she spends her summers at the Baltimore Marine Center.


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

ambitiousbutrubbish said:


> Trucking the boat isn't a final decision, but regardless cost is not a huge issue. I was thinking a trip from Deale to Ocean City would be a good little trial run for us sometime in April of next year. I suppose if the boats already in the water at that point it seems a little silly to pull it and drive it down by truck. Do you know where I could find a reliable delivery captain?


Can't say that I'm not a little envious of your finances -- but goodonya that you have fewer worries than most of us around here .

I wish I could give you a solid lead on a delivery captain, but since I've never been in a position to use one I'm kind of at a loss. There are almost certainly other folks here that can point you in the right direction.



ambitiousbutrubbish said:


> Quantell is currently dry docked at HHN, but she spends her summers at the Baltimore Marine Center.


I'll try and hunt her down later in the week next time I'm there.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

ambitiousbutrubbish said:


> btw this is not a charter, we've had the boat in the Chesapeake for about 10 years but use it sparingly, it is getting driven down to Florida in the spring, *going out to sea for a few weeks* and then most likely being put up for sale when it returns to port in Florida.


Going out to sea for a few weeks from Florida... what area are you exactly intending to 'cruise'? Seems that a 'few weeks' won't get you very far (and back) and presumably Cuba is not part of that plan...

Very different Island hopping in the Antilles, for example, vs Florida to the BVIs and back...


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## ambitiousbutrubbish (Sep 17, 2012)

Florida- bahamas- turks- dominican- jamaica- then back to florida


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## PeterSailer (Mar 20, 2010)

> Keep the main up and motor sail if there is not much wind. Your sails are your backup!


I always thought it was the other way around =D


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