# One of my team members gave me notice



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

This is sort of off topic, because the guy in question isn't a boater, but it's another story I thought I would pass on for some in similar situations...

A guy who works for me is single and in his mid 40s. He had a plan to retire in his 50s and was saving toward that goal. Recently his sister married a guy who is well off, and my coworker has spent a fair amount of time with them. His new brother in law challenged his plan, pointing out that for the kind of life my coworker enjoys (he vacations in exotic locales, but likes to live among the people and one benefit of that is low cost of living) he is pretty much set right now. His BIL told him if he really was going to do it, he would do it now, otherwise he was just blowing smoke - having fantasies he would likely never fulfill. My coworker thought long and hard and decided his BIL was right. Yesterday he gave me notice. I sort of saw it coming; the house was sold a couple of months ago along with most of his possessions and he has been in a short term furnished rental.

My guess is a few people reading the cruising group are in similar circumstances to my coworker. Maybe you just need a little kick...



















PS - I think my wife lost sleep over it when I told her. She thinks I am ready to bail out, but the kids are too young and rooted right now. It will probably be close to 10 years before I can make that choice without affecting others too much. I am not encouraging people with dependents to abandon them!


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

*Do your own analysis*

Along these same lines, an article in the Wash. Post yesterday about some financial planners overstating how much people need for retirement. People need to educate themselves and do their own analysis of their situation, etc.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

for a moment I thought you got fired....and the animation helped....


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

You mean for spending too much time on SailNet? Maybe I better get back to work...


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

lol, you mind me asking what he did to retire in his 40's? I've accepted the fact that working until I die is inevitable.


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## Pamlicotraveler (Aug 13, 2006)

zz4gta said:


> lol, you mind me asking what he did to retire in his 40's? I've accepted the fact that working until I die is inevitable.


He answered that email from the Nigerian widow and got rich!
Most of us are just too cynical.

The letter read--->>>DUE TO THIS SITUATION WE DECIDED TO CHANGED MOST OF MY HUSBAND'S BILLIONS OF DOLLARS DEPOSITED IN SWISS BANK AND OTHER COUNTRIES INTO OTHER FORMS OF MONEY CODED FOR SAFE PURPOSE ...I HAVE DEPOSITED THE SUM OF EIHGTEEN MLLION UNITED STATE DOLLARS(US$18,000,000,00.),,,WHAT I WANT YOU TO DO IS TO INDICATE YOUR INTEREST THAT YOU WILL ASSIST US BY RECEIVING THE MONEY ON OUR BEHALF<<<


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

We are software developers, which pays decent money. But he specifically lived below his means for a while; lived in a starter home in an older neighborhood that needed to some work, which he did. He is single; no dependents - and he saved and invested all that he could. He took vacations, but as I mentioned earlier, he really didn't spend all that much. Then a little over 2 years ago when rates were at rock bottom, he stepped up to a much bigger new place in a new neighborhood right at the fringe of growth. He bought early when they offer the best deals to get some of the houses occupied. He did a good job landscaping and after 2 years (significant for tax reasons) with the neighborhood thriving and desirable he sold for a significant profit (the downturn really hasn't hit here yet). He did it the old fashioned boring way. He has missed out on having a wife and family (he said it just never happened; it wasn't part of the plan but just worked out that way). I am not sure he is truly retiring and neither is he. Part of the thinking is that after a year or two he will know if he needs to worry about creating some income and he will be using real numbers.

I think that last bit is what really changed in his thinking. Many financial planners seem to think the way to gauge success is if you die with money. He decided he wanted to live wth some of it first.


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## byrondv (Jan 6, 2007)

arbarnhart said:


> Many financial planners seem to think the way to gauge success is if you die with money. He decided he wanted to live wth some of it first.


Great way to put it.


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

*retire now*

Were it not for the cost of health insurance, this 50+ sailor would follow. It is easy to do, even with a wife and a kid in college, if you model after this young man's plan. Live below your means, save, work hard as a student so you get good scholarships.

I had a good UNIX training gig going several times a year that would more than pay the boat bills, but that $1250 a month for health insurance pushed me back to full time employment.

More power to the young man for being able and to actually do it.

Fire your planner, and save yourself 7-10% on your money yearly...

dave


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## FrankLanger (Dec 27, 2005)

Part of the challenge for those of us considering early retirement (in our mid-fifties) is the need to plan ahead reasonably for a lifetime that could last to 85 or 90. Making assumptions about inflation, interest rates, potential stock market gains, and the cost of a retirement lifestyle is not easy.

In our case, our four kids have all left home and while not fully established, are doing fairly well. We still see the need to be prepared for periodic financial support to help out in an unforeseen crisis, or for weddings and other events to come.

While I will have a decent pension from my job, my wife has been self-employed and will have no retirement income other than Canada Pension (about $5,000 when she turns 60 in 8 years) and Old Age Security (another $5,000 at age 65). We have been saving/investing for the last ten years, and when we downsize our house, that will add to our retirement fund.

After drafting many budgets and revising the spreadsheets, I'm reasonably confident that we can retire next summer with a modest but comfortable lifestyle--sailing our 30 foot sailboat, living in a condo on Vancouver Island, and periodic international travel.

But I continue to be tempted to work just a few months longer to increase the pension "just in case", and have that nagging concern that my assumptions may not be quite accurate over the many years ahead and we may be left short. My wife reassures me that we can always cut back a bit on the budget or earn some extra money--and I agree on good days when the boat beckons.

But I must say, it's one of the toughest decisions I've faced in a long time. I guess we'll figure it out....or just take the plunge when we decide the timing is right.

Frank.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

We are doing this ourselves...not so much retiring as taking our retirement in sabbatical form for five to seven years in mid-life. My parents both died in the last five years, and our kid is now in grade school. We have our health and our strength, and our boat (which was designed as a "sail into retirement" cruiser) has gone through two owners, neither of whom used her to her intended purpose due to age and/or family considerations.

Realistically, by which I mean demographically, it is foolish to expect a government pension...there are too many boomers ahead of me and too few tax-paying younger people behind me. If we are to go, we should go now, when my kid can still see a coral reef outside of a "marine nature reserve", and while certain delightful atolls are still above water.

I can plan for the future, but I've decided to act in the near term. Certainly the universe has been dropping enough hints that this is the way to go (sailors I know, younger than me, dropping dead...friends trapped in the rat race, etc.).

Besides, I'd rather have a store of unique memories than an extra hundred grand in my retirement fund.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

A little more for those into the "how can someone do this" details...

COBRA (health insurance) will be around $250/month and he is getting "ex-pat" insurance for traveling abroad at $2/day. So his health insurance is a little over $300/month. First stop is Thailand with a 6 month visa. He is selling his car for $15K (or will accept $13K from CarMax right before he leaves) to finance his first 6 months and hopes it will last longer (possibly the entire first year, but he will live a little large at first). That is his first acid test. Then he still has his equity from doing well on the two houses over the last 10 years or so, which I think is over $200K (cash, tax already paid), to try to bridge about 10 years before he can start hitting the tax deferred income without a hit (living abroad and pulling it out slow enough, he might never pay taxes again). He said the interim period (with the retirement money sitting in investments) has to have some increases for it to work. So he is not filthy rich; he is just taking the chance that he can just barely make it work instead of spending more of his best years making sure.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Pamlicotraveler said:


> He answered that email from the Nigerian widow and got rich!
> Most of us are just too cynical.
> 
> The letter read--->>>DUE TO THIS SITUATION WE DECIDED TO CHANGED MOST OF MY HUSBAND'S BILLIONS OF DOLLARS .......OUR BEHALF<<<


lmao! I knew it! I should've replied to that email...haha

But seriously, I'll be 26 next month and feel the same way many of my friends do. Social Security will be nothing more than a memory when (IF) I retire. I don't make much, but do contribute to a 401k and IRA. I have also bought a condo at the begining of '07 for a little help on taxes. But is there anything else I can do? Meet with a financial planner?

Sorry for highjacking your thread, I'm just worried (even at this age) that I'll never be able to get more than 2 weeks vacation for the rest of my life.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

arbarnhart said:


> A little more for those into the "how can someone do this" details...
> 
> COBRA (health insurance) will be around $250/month and he is getting "ex-pat" insurance for traveling abroad at $2/day. So his health insurance is a little over $300/month. First stop is Thailand with a 6 month visa. He is selling his car for $15K (or will accept $13K from CarMax right before he leaves) to finance his first 6 months and hopes it will last longer (possibly the entire first year, but he will live a little large at first). That is his first acid test. Then he still has his equity from doing well on the two houses over the last 10 years or so, which I think is over $200K (cash, tax already paid), to try to bridge about 10 years before he can start hitting the tax deferred income without a hit (living abroad and pulling it out slow enough, he might never pay taxes again). He said the interim period (with the retirement money sitting in investments) has to have some increases for it to work. So he is not filthy rich; he is just taking the chance that he can just barely make it work instead of spending more of his best years making sure.


BTW, thanks for this info, greatly appreciated.


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

zz

ditch the planner meeting...just start saving - pay yourself first, start with 5% of your gross and as you get comfortable, then bump it up until you are setting aside 15-20%. Pay off and ditch all your credit cards, except one. Drive an older/used car. Then open an account on Scottrade (or other discount brokerage) and buy American Funds mutual funds, some stock in a product that you believe in and use every day. Don't touch it. BY the time you are my age you will easily be able to retire.

Read Motley Fool, financial advice or Suzie Orman's books ....but unless you have some really weird financial situation and want to give away 7-10% of your investment every year - stay away from planners/brokers and the like.

email me if you have other questions, I used to be a broker.

dave


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Oh yeah, besides the BIL's influence, he also told me I partially responsible by suggesting he get the book *Your Money or Your Life*_ by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin_. It is part money sense, part philosophy and part self improvement. It is about how to have a fulfilling life free of money worries, not about acquiring great wealth. It does help you make a concrete plan; it isn't all new age happy talk (but there is some of that in there).


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I agree with Valiente completely. 

I have lived my whole life that way. When I was 25 a coworker told me "You've already seen and done more than I will ever do". He was about 28. If he only knows how much I have seen and done since then.

A sailing trip, whether circumnavigation or not, is my next great adventure. Hopefully not my last as I'm only 41. We'll actually the current adventure is 4 kids under 6, but we aren't waiting till they move out, they go with us everywhere. We didn't have them to place them with a sitter and visit them at our house. They already have many, many adventures under their belts. Here's one:

We went to Seaworld a couple of years ago and went to the dolphin touching pool. Basically you stand at a wall around the pool and wait for a dolphin to come up to you. We were there for about 3-4 minutes and I was holding our 2yo daughter when a dolphin came right up to us. My daughter pulled back, but I got to touch it. A couple of minutes later my wife got to touch one. Our 3yo son wanted to touch one real bad so I was holding him (they were short and the concrete wall is such that you can kind of lean over the pool). A couple more minutes passed by and a dolphin came right up in front of us again and my son got to touch it. We were ecstatic within 10 minutes all of us touched or could have touched a dolphin around a pool with more than 100 people there. Our daughter is still a little sad that she didn't touch it, but what would you do at 2yo when a never seen before creature of that size comes right up in front of you. I keep telling her she is the dolphin's favorite because it came up to her first. The guy standing beside us said "You know some people stand here for hours and never get to touch one?"

At the same job as the coworker above there was an older lady. She and her husband were in their early 60's. He was already retired and told her she could retire when "Her wages over her life time exceeded her net worth". They put off their enjoyment of life till retirement. They never went anywhere, even had a motorhome rotting away in the drive. When I threw my time cards on my bosses desk (yes threw) and left she was almost ready to retire. But the medical problems for the both of them were starting to kick in. They waited too late and I feel sorry for them. That is no way to spend retirement sitting around the house waiting for the next doctor visit and wishing you went on some great adventures when you were young. I don't know what happened after I left most likely they never spent their money and they had lots. Only daughter probably got to retire in her 30's.

There's a whole wide world out there. If you want to see it go now for tomorrow may never come. And all the money in the world can't buy youth or happiness.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Best thing I ever did was stay in the Navy Reserves after I left active duty. At 60 I will have a decent pension, and more importantly (much more) full health care including perscriptions for me and my wife. That plus pre-paid tuition for the kids (a great invention if ever there was one) gives me a level of confidence in the future that may allow for a get-away in the next few years.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Andy-
"COBRA (health insurance) will be around $250/month" That's good for 18 months IIRC. And then it will typically double, and go up another 20%+ per year after that. I guess it covers you if you are "on sabbatical" but wonder, how would prospective employers look at "split and took off to see the world" when he comes back, as an older member of the work force trying to get back in?


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## tenuki (Feb 11, 2007)

arbarnhart said:


> Many financial planners seem to think the way to gauge success is if you die with money.


Many parents and grandparents think this way too...


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

> "COBRA (health insurance) will be around $250/month" That's good for 18 months IIRC.


If that is all that his cobra is, he is lucky...mine (just ended 18months) was over a $1K for me and my wife...and no prospect of continuing after the ending...I would have to go on the state's high risk pool....and it would have tripled for high option, high deductible...

For you youngsters, this is going to be THE problem going forward. This stopped me dead in my tracks from continuing to be independently employed.

All the best, and ZZ go for it.....

dave


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

hellosailor said:


> Andy-
> "COBRA (health insurance) will be around $250/month" That's good for 18 months IIRC. And then it will typically double, and go up another 20%+ per year after that. I guess it covers you if you are "on sabbatical" but wonder, how would prospective employers look at "split and took off to see the world" when he comes back, as an older member of the work force trying to get back in?


He is single with no dependants and our insurance is not the best, so the low rate is partly a result of that. He is ex-military, which is what I think entitles him to what he refers to as "ex-pat" insurance for a couple of dollars a day. I am not sure why he even mentioned both; it seems like he would get that instead of COBRA (though for the few days after he is done with work until he actually leaves, if something comes up he would need to make the COBRA payment). I don't think he is ever coming back to the regular US work force, so that isn't anything factored into his plans.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Being ex-military he's probably got some coverage provided free for life by the VA, and that changes everything. "Ex-pat" or "overseas traveler" policies are available from many sources. They are, from what I've been told, simply medical insurnace that will only be honored if you spend more than 6 months of the year outside the US--and get your care where the event happens, OUTside the US in whatever medical system you may find yourself in.

The US has no monopoly on good or bad medical care but all things being equal...I'd like to know that anyone responsible for me living/dying is at least a Native Ynglitch speaker like myself.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Ex-military doesn't qualify him for squat unless he retires from the military. He qualifies for Cobra (or Tri-care) after he separates, for some period. But thats it. The lifetime benefits only come with a career retirement, active or reserve. Wish it was otherwise.


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## RealityCheck (Jun 2, 2007)

I have been looking at several ex-pat insurance policies and they typically run well under half what a similar US policy runs. You do have to be out of the US for 6mo+1 day during the coverage year. Most I see will cover cost while in the US during the 6 month -1 day time frame. I'll try to find the links I stored away for final review I have planned for 08/ 09. Note that if your in the 62ish group you do have other alternatives. Think my links are on the lap top.... in another state! LoL well guess it is back to Ask.com. It was a Duch Ins company as I recall.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

OK, I have more info from another chat with him...

Mr. Bush Sr took away his military health benefits because he didn't retire from the military and has been making good money in the private sector. The "ex pat" is insurance anyone can get. The less expensive policy he got is catastrophic care and/or transport. When they transport, that means they get him back to the US and dump him here, which is why he still needs COBRA. COBRA will run out and then the law (HIPAA) says he has to be offered continuing coverage but it doesn't say it has to be cheap.
He has enough savings to earn $500 a month in interest and he is planning to roll his 401K into a Roth for reasons I don't quite understand; he says he can get some benefit that way and set up a SEPP to bleed off about $700 a month that is pure interest (I don't know what his principle or assumed interest rate is).
It sounds like to me it could get dicey when he converts from COBRA to HIPAA.

*EDIT* - Just an FYI; yesterday (9/25/2007) was his last day working here; he is on his way...


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## ceberon (Jun 23, 2006)

There's another forum I frequent at: 
http://early-retirement.org/forums/

That forum has a huge amount of information on how to retire early


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