# The Great Taboo: Motoring?



## OsmundL (Nov 11, 2008)

I'd like to hear more about the great taboo: *Motoring*. We _sailors_ tend to pretend it doesn't happen - we certainly don't like to put a figure on it. Still it plays a part, and much of what is said about choosing a boat, equipping it and using it, really depends on how we use it.

For example, those profound calculations about electricity onboard - they fade in importance if you motor 50% of the time. Boat speed under sail? Yes, but what about speed under motor? Engine noise - it matters little if you mostly sail, it is a serious comfort issue if you motor frequently.

Looking back over, say, the past two years, can you put a percentage on the hours spent under motor? A bare figure needs some flesh on the bone: it is more useful if you can say _how_ you mostly sail. Is it *day sailing* or *cruising* over days and weeks? Or *racing*?

I'll kick off: Earlier when mostly day sailing, our use of the engine was minimal - and I mean truly minimal, a few minutes to cast off and then to drop anchor, the rest was sailing. Now, when cruising is the rule, motoring has a big place. In and out of harbor, but also on a schedule to the next port; when arranging rendezvous; in close quarters - channels, heavy currents, narrow straits into a headwind; sometimes in foul weather when you don't want to be on deck. Finally, when motoring today could put you in the right place for wind tomorrow, or when _not motoring_ would allow the foul weather to catch up. Then there is motor sailing, keeping the main up to steady the boat or just for show while getting most of the speed from the iron horse.

Going over the log, I think my motoring time the last 12 months fell close to the 50% mark.

Anyone?

P.S. I'm sure this has been a theme before, but it bears updating.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I'ts true we motor more than I'd prefer.. but as you said there are factors that pretty much necessitate being at a certain place at a certain time, esp in our area with its many tidal passes and narrows. Also in the winter and shoulder seasons daylight is a limiting factor.

We generally daysail/weekend except for summer season when we may spend up to 50-60 days straight cruising. If we have a planned meeting or a need to be at a provisioning spot, we'll motor if conditions require.

We generally do not motor upwind just because its upwind. We much prefer to beat than to motor into wind and chop. Its simply more comfortable. We also virtually never 'motorsail'...


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

isnt the place you have to get to upwind 90% of the time?


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Anyone that cruises has to motor some percentage of the time if you have any kind of a schedule. Racers don't motor (except to get to the start and from the finish). Unless I get stuck with the wind dying when daysailing, I barely use the engine. Last season I was on the boat about 70 days and went through about 1 tank (12 gallons) of diesel, most of it on the annual 2+ week cruise.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

We are seasonal latitude cruisers spending summers in Maine and winters in the Bahamas or Keys and we make as many as twenty ports that we enjoy northbound or southbound. We love to sail, but if we're not making five knots, then we are motoring or motor-sailing and we're not alone, There are hundreds of "snowbirds" or "hurricane birds", like us, doing this year 'round. I don't have a percentage, but we put 500 hrs. on our engine each year. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I overhauled my Atomic 4 in my racer-cruiser in 2005 and have put 81 hours in four seasons, including two cruises down Lake Ontario that included canal motoring... No wonder I made my gas tank smaller...now I cycle a tank in two seasons instead of three!

By contrast, our motorsailer went through 200 hours in two seasons, but that was a function of my insisting that the diesel, once on, stayed on, if only at 1,400 RPM or so, because I feel that the pattern of diesel usage in sailboats is generally too brief. If we were sailing for eight hours, however, and had reasonable wind, I would motorsail for 90 minutes, shut down, sail for five hours, and then motorsail the last 90 minutes, keeping me, the diesel and the batteries quite happy. When we are passagemaking in this boat, I suspect the motor usage will be three to six hours per week, primarily going from an anchorage to a good "pumpout point" outside that particular country's discharge limit.

In other words, if there's a reason to run the engine, I certainly don't mind doing so, but I tend to avoid using the boat to go point to point under power in the first place, because I would rather just sail at two knots for a few hours than use it as a means of straight transportation that's hooked to a schedule.


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

As we've cruised down the east coast of the US and then the Bahamas we've found that we've had to motor far more often than we wanted to. On the way down the east coast, I'd say we motored or motorsailed over 50% of the time. Because of the number of fronts that came through this winter we went when a window was available - sail or motor. To us it wasn't taboo - just something we did to get from point a to point b at times. We absolutely craved sailing, but we'd leave places regardless.


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## drobarge (Mar 3, 2009)

I find that if I'm making less than 3 knots my key finger gets itchy. It's not that I don't like being underway longer than necessary, but I usually have only so much time to go where I want to go. Also I sail on lake Superior and in the early spring and fall lingering in open water is not advisable. at these times of the year winds can reach 40 to 50 real fast, even when the weatherman doesn't give you a heads up. This rapidly builds very steep seas with a short length, not my prefered texture. Soooooo..... anyway if common sense tells me to fire up the mill I do it.


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## bloodhunter (May 5, 2009)

We use about 20-30 gallons of diesel fuel a year mostly getting in and out of our marina and in and out of harbors. Being in the Chesapeake, we tend to sail early or late in the summer when the heat dies down and there's a little more wind. However, when we want to get to an anchoarge and the wind has died we turn on the engine. Sure beats oars


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## ScuzzMonkey (Jun 26, 2006)

Certainly doesn't seem taboo here in the PNW. I think 50% is a conservative estimate for engine time for most sailors around here. I got curious about this last year and went through my log book, and we were closer to 70/30 (sailing/motoring) but I would say that's the exception. At that, we actually motored more than I was comfortable with, but time constraints will do that to you.

Even so, I think we are considered a bit odd by others in the area. We were heading north through a narrow pass in light winds last summer, making about a knot, but enjoying the scenery, and were passed by several other sailboats under power heading for the same moorage. When we got there, I ran into one of the gents who had passed us up at the store. He asked if that was us who had been sailing up the channel and whether there was something wrong with our engine. When I replied that, no, we just liked sailing and weren't in a hurry he chuckled, shook his head, and said, "Boy, you were really working for it, weren't you?" Didn't seem like work to me, but that's how a lot of people see it. It's about convenience, and a lot of time, the iron genny is more convenient.

On the other hand, some people get so used to it that they tend to fall back to it even when sailing might get them there faster. On the same trip, we were crawling north through another channel near a slightly larger and newer sailboat. The wind picked up and things got a little bumpy; the other boat dropped sail and started the engine up, while we reefed down a little bit and got wet. We beat them to the anchorage by almost a half hour. You also see people nearly helpless when the engine goes, despite having a perfectly serviceable rig. I think people should be free to use their boats however they like, but that speaks to me of over-reliance on motoring and not enough development of sailing skills (or recognition of the benefits that can come with them).


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## nk235 (Apr 8, 2007)

When cruising I find I actually use the motor about 80% of the time but wouldn't use it at all if I didn't have to. The trouble is that I like most people only get to cruise on the weekends except for the 1 big trip for 1 or 2 weeks every year. So a lot of the time I constrained with time, weather, and current especially if I am headed east in LI Sound where the currents can really run and it is very important to time them favorably. We try to sail at every possible chance we get but its funny how often the wind is on your nose or is so light that the sails just flap uselessly. In fact last weekend on our sail back to our home port was the first time where the wind was blowing like heck from the stern as opposed to on the nose.

If I were retired (only 25 so have a long way to go  ) I would prob sail a lot more because I could pick and choose my destinations and when I left based on the weather rather than knowing I only have an afternoon or day to get somewhere. Although using the motor sucks, those times when you do get to sail the whole way are that much more enjoyable!


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

I hate motoring. Sometimes I guess I seem obnoxious, sailing under bridges, beating up the Montlake Cut, or sailing into the lagoon around my marina... but it is a sailboat! I use my motor as little as possible, usually just to get off the dock. I do use it to get to and from the locks, though.


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## OsmundL (Nov 11, 2008)

tager said:


> I hate motoring


   
Just a reminder: A vital part of the question was _how_ you use the boat: Is it day sailing, weekend cruise, or long trips? I'd expect most day sailors to use the engine rarely, and cruisers a lot more. It would be neat to know _how_ big the difference is.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

I use a motor quite a bit. I don't mind it at all. Perhaps i am not a "true" sailor (though I am bored in a power boat). I enjoy navigation and getting from point A to point B. I enjoy sailing when sailing is enjoyable - i.e. when the wind is right (not too strong and not too light and in the direction that helps me move where I want to go). If none of this is true - I turn a key and go. My boat is in essence a motor-sailor (she has a relatively big engine) so no qualms about it. 
I think this is all about doing what you like, not what someone else thinks you should do. 
IMHO


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Well you could all be carrying Sweep Oars on your sailing vessels and be using them when there is no wind or have a strong need to go straight into that wind and tide. This was how it was done in the old days before there were engines. 
Choices: Sweep Oars, Engine? Hmmmmm!? Sore back & arms or finger tip throttle control??
Which shall it be today?


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

I have cruised about 14k miles doing island hops, and coastal. I never kept track, but I would think 50% is a common number. Someday when my stars are aligned I will cross an ocean, and sail the trades. Having 4 solar panels, and a wind generator, I am hoping to never turn the engines on except to drop, pick up the hook, and entering places tight for maneuvering......i2f


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## AE28 (Jun 20, 2008)

We're daysailers and use the engine from the slip to the lake and back - a few minutes in each direction.
We use less than three gallons of diesel per year.
Paul


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

I use to sail a 26 ft knock-about that was a pure sailing vessel_ (did not have an engine). _And after sailing it for awhile I could put it most places that power boats of the same size would have secound thoughts about. 
I believe that as your skills grow that you will find that you are using the engine less and less as time goes by. But push your sailing ability to the limit and keep learning about what your vessel can do when under sail...


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

For us it's 90% Sailing around the bay on weekends and 90% Motor Sailing on our weeks vacations to different destinations in the MA, RI, CT, and NY area.


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## GraemeInCanada (Jun 17, 2008)

I hate motoring myself because it's noisy and the vibration of the engine is irritating compared to a nice smooth sail. On that note though, if I need to get somewhere then I'll grudgingly turn the key and get going. It seems that more often than not you're going into the wind.. even if you go on a trip that spans 4 days, 2 days going down and 2 going back up, that wind will change direction 180 degrees on your second day making sure to keep the wind on your nose.. crazy but true story for me.

Either way, if I could sail all the time I would. It's time that is the issue here, like others I can't waste all my time going at 2 knots. When I retire I might do that though


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## BOLTER33 (Apr 9, 2008)

General Day Sailing 90% Sail , Cruising about 50- 50 , It's amazing how little fuel she uses when motor sailing. If It's been months since a cruise and I have only been day sailing, I might take her out for a few hours motor only to keep the engine clean.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I do want to comment on the name of this thread. I think some people think of motoring as somehow immoral. My take is a bit nuanced on this. On one hand I personally think that we all get on the water to seek enjoyment where ever we find it and so there is no universally right answer about whether motoring is right or wrong. 

By the same token I sometimes see someone motoring a great boat on a beautiful sailing day and think, "Why isn't that guy sailing? He doesn't know what he is missing." 

I also grew up with a personal ethic that values handling a boat well and voyaging by the wind. I consider my time under sail one of the greatest luxuries that there is in life. I will go to great lengths not to crank my engine, often sailing into and sometimes out of the slip. So it was a real surprise that my engine to sailing percentage was as high as it it. 

In a typical year I am under sail somewhere around 150- 200 hours and typically have 25 to 50 engine hours per year (25 being more typical than 50). Needless to say, I was really surprised by what I found when I did the arithmetic. 

To answer the other part of the question, I use my boat in a range of ways. 

I do a lot of daysailing. I can easily daysail 30 to 50 days a year (depending on the year's weather and the woman in my life). More often than not I motor out of the slip and raise sails in the Bay but sail back into the slip. (Yes, I know its easier the other way around, especially since Synergy sits in the slip bow out.) 

I used to race the boat in a single-handed/ double-handed series which has now died out. I also raced her in a beer-can series but haven't done that in years, racing on other people's boats instead.

I typically do 10-15 overnights a year some of which are three to five day hoiiday weekends, and will typcially take a long cruise (9-12 days) at some point in the season. I don't use the engine much on the overnights since I can pick where i am going in order to suit the winds and will sail on and off the anchor or in and out of anchorages. 

I typically do not use the engine to charge the batteries when I overnnight or daysail, charging the batteries with the shore power when she's in her home slip. I usually don't run the engine all that much on the long cruises for similar reasons. That said, while I normally don't use my engine to charge the batteries, on the much longer cruises I try to get an hour of engine time every 2 or 3 days to top up the batteries. This is light useage is possible since I don't have refrigeration, which works fine since I am a vegetarian. 

Jeff


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

On a crossing from USA to New Zealand we used about 700 litres in 6900 miles. That includes charging and motoring. We only really motor when it's calm and we need to move on to another weather system.

Now that we're day sailing we have used 220 litres in two years. We still motor when it's calm, to get in and out of the marina (sailing in the marina is strictly forbidden) and motor sail when the wind is light but we sail whenever it is practical. But we never charge anymore - our battery capacity is plenty to keep us going for a few days in the local islands.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

In 2008, we sailed approximately 8.54 hours per hour motored, meaning we spent about 10.5% of our time motoring (I estimated motor use fairly generously). I spent maybe $40 on gas last year. Daysailing doesn't take us far enough that we're worried about our schedule, so I'm usually willing to drift home at a couple of knots, though the wind definitely dies off on summer evenings around here and occasionally we have no choice.

The first thing that broke on our boat was the motor and so I suppose I'm biased against it. I just love that relaxing feeling when you kill the motor and the only sound left is the quiet gurgling of the water past the hull.

All that said the recent reliability of the motor and my getting more comfortable using it, especially docking, has led to a new appreciation of the iron genoa so I wouldn't be surprised to see usage go up this year.


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## ctl411 (Feb 15, 2009)

When daysailing use motor out of slip then sail not going anywhere,so speed /time not an issue. Vacation maybe 50/50 sail motorsail if the boat is moving main is up faster less rolling.


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

Just finished a cruise up to the Abrolhos Islands (around 800NM in three weeks) and we motor sailed around 70-80% of the time. In heading north the breezes were extremely light and then heading south we had mostly 20-25kts bang on the nose. Most of the fleet (around 16 yachts) were motoring sailing to make meaningful progress.

Like another poster I start motor sailing when the speed drops below 3 knots. Also my yacht does not make meaningful progress to windward without the engine. In getting south along the Western Australian coast you either need a yacht that has excellent windward abilities, or a big enough donk to make meaningful progress (my engine is a 98HP)

Ilenart


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

My question is why own a sailboat if you motor most of the time???? A trawler makes more sense if you love to motor. A big useless stick on a motorboat makes no sense at all. As a way to attract lightening??? As extra windage during a storm. The only way a sailboat makes sense is if you sail a lot of th etime.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

MoonSailer said:


> My question is why own a sailboat if you motor most of the time???? A trawler makes more sense if you love to motor. A big useless stick on a motorboat makes no sense at all. As a way to attract lightening??? As extra windage during a storm. The only way a sailboat makes sense is if you sail a lot of th etime.


Because I *can* sail occasionally when I feel like it  Can't do that in a trawler. I think what makes sense differs from one person to another


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I motor to and from shore, in and out of slips, etc. I don't motor when I am away from shore because I am too stingy to waste money on fuel.  If there isn't any wind I'd rather just sit there and wait for it.

I would and have motored if it was a safety issue (lee shore) but you try hard not to get into those situations.


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## nk235 (Apr 8, 2007)

MoonSailer said:


> My question is why own a sailboat if you motor most of the time???? A trawler makes more sense if you love to motor. A big useless stick on a motorboat makes no sense at all. As a way to attract lightening??? As extra windage during a storm. The only way a sailboat makes sense is if you sail a lot of th etime.


I don't think there was one person on here who actually said they LIKE to motor...Also I don't think I have met one person who prefers to go .5 knts for 10+ hours in 90 degree heat with the sails flapping on a day with no wind when you have plans to overnight at a certain destination. I think we can all agree FOR CRUISING if we can sail it is by far the way to go even if you get there a little slower BUT if you are trying to get somewhere and there is no wind you are going to motor whether you love to sail or not. And for some people that happens more often than not due to their boat and location. For instance on the Long Island Sound between July and August the conditions I described are typical 60% of the time.

No for day sailing when you are not trying to get anywhere it is a total different story.


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

When cruising isn't staying at anchor an option on windless days??? I have seen many sailboats motoring on perfectly good sailing days. But there is nothing wrong with anything!!!! But if you find yourself motoring a lot you might consider a trawler!!! When I finally get to go long term cruising I will try to sail with the wind aft of the mast 10-15 knots. Given the choice of staying at anchor or motoring for hours I will probably stay at anchor. But that is just me. I have considered buying a trawler. There are advantages.


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## nk235 (Apr 8, 2007)

MoonSailer said:


> When cruising isn't staying at anchor an option on windless days??? I have seen many sailboats motoring on perfectly good sailing days. But there is nothing wrong with anything!!!! But if you find yourself motoring a lot you might consider a trawler!!! When I finally get to go long term cruising I will try to sail with the wind aft of the mast 10-15 knots. Given the choice of staying at anchor or motoring for hours I will probably stay at anchor. But that is just me. I have considered buying a trawler. There are advantages.


if retired or with no job, my outlook would be 100% different as I could have no agenda and do as I please but as many people, I do work full time and don't have that luxury yet. I love to sail and do it a lot daysailing during the week and while cruising on the weekends when there is wind. I also love to visit different ports as weekend getaways often times meeting friends on their boats. If there is no wind I'm not going to just sit at anchor, I'm going to turn on my motor and get there. Would I rather be sailing, yes, but it also doesn't bother me. Also as a 25 year old all my friends my age have power boats and get there in a 1/8 the time so believe me I have considered a power boat, but in no way think I would ever be happy with one as you loose sailing all together.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

As posted earlier, I do a lot of motoring at between 6.5 & 7 knots when it pleases me. What would a trawler do for me? I still love to sail when it pleases me. Shouldn't the boat being doing best when it serves the pleasure of the captain? I see many sailboats sailing, but I've never seen a trawler trawling! 'take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

Yep been there done that!!! It sucks to have to motor all day to get back to the dock so that you can go to work!!! We all have had to motor at times. I guess my point is that a sailboat's purpose is sailing. If you want to go somewhere a sailboat is not a great option. Most of the time I want to "go sailing" and my plans are made according to wind conditions. Drifting along bird watching is fun as is screaming along with the rail buried. I find it almost as much fun sailing at 2-3 knots as at hull speed. But all is good..enjoy.


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

do you know any sailors who use modern medicines rather than herbs,roots etc,I figure if I have to put up with the disavantages of progress I may as well reap the advantages too,I motor whenever it suits my mood and circumstances


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

Yes Sawingknots the sailboat has been passed by powerboats and trains and planes and automobiles. Enjoy motoring all you desire!!!! My point is that if you find yourself enjoying motoring most of the time why not get a powerboat??? Almost any powerboat will outrun a sailboat!!!! And that stick in the middle can prevent you from going under bridges to explore new waters!!! I really don't care if every sailer keeps on their sail covers and motor 100% of the time. All is good. On rainy days I even those in powerboats all warm and dry in their pilothouses On hot windless days I envy the air conditioed pilot houses. If I didn't love sailing I'd own a trawler or a houseboat.


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

MoonSailer said:


> All is good. On rainy days I envy those in powerboats all warm and dry in their pilothouses On hot windless days I envy the air conditioned pilot houses. If I didn't love sailing I'd own a trawler or a houseboat.


Aaa....yup..... That's why I chose all of the above  I can't motor at 20kts or sail in light air like a J-Boat but it works for me. Lots of compromises ....... but lots of choices


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

This is going to sound funny, but there was a time when I would sail - no matter what. I didn't care if the boat was just sitting there still, it was a sailboat and we were going to get our nickle out of our time on it.

Times changed for us - especially when we went to live aboard. I had nothing to prove. In fact, there were many times (and still are) where the wind is great and we still motor. I remember reading All In The Same Boat by Tom Neale. He said something in there about most live aboards never sailing to weather (and always motoring). I have come to agree with that. Now in full disclosure, he was always on a motor sailor which is not exactly known for its fine sailing abilities... but I still agree. We would do the same and at times, still do.

Funny thing now is that my new boat seems to perform its best when close hauled. I enjoy putting the rail in the water sometimes and getting the thrill of zipping around. But typically, with the kids down below playing or Kris cooking something - I will fall off or crank up the engine without remorse. I could care less what anyone else thinks and I am out there to have fun and make it enjoyable FOR EVERYONE!!

Regarding trawlers...

I love many of them. In fact, one of my most favorite boats in teh world is the Nordhavn (as many people here know). We came EXTREMELY close to buying one and it is only by crazy chance we ended up in a sailboat again. At the time, we had totally decided against sailing. 

Trawlers have many benefits: They motor better than the typical sailboat, most of them can make better time, they are extremely efficient (depending on the trawler), and they have vastly more useable living space (one of our key reasons for considering them). If you have not been down inside a well founded trawler like a nordhavn or maybe a Kadey-Krogen or Cape Horn, do yourself a favor and take a look at them sometime. They are really outstanding. But all trawlers have one vital flaw that many of us have an issue getting over: you are 100% dependent on a motor. Motors fail, and they always seem to fail at the most inapprorpiate time. At least with a sailboat when 1000 miles out at sea, you can wait for the wind. And how many of us have not had to sail back into the marina? I have. It is a tough trade off to come to grips with.

So anyways, back to motoring in a sailboat, I have no taboo against it. I will do whichever one makes the most sense at the time and is the most comfortable. But I can certainly see how other's opinions may vary.

- Brian


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## fendertweed (Apr 4, 2003)

I do 90%+ day sailing on my Pearson 26 on the Potomac R. where it gets wide S. of Mt. Vernon/Mason Neck. I motor (15hp Merc 2 stroke) about 30-60 mins. to get out the channel and back. Once I'm out it's then 90% sailing.

I did a 200 NM round trip last fall to the mouth of the Potomac/Ches. Bay & back, and was motoring about 2/3 of the time due to wind, tides, etc.

I'm singlehanding 75+% of the time.


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