# How long do you expect to keep your boat/how long will it last?



## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Two separate, but perhaps related questions, with my answers:

1. How long do you expect to keep your current boat? Why?

2. Can you anticipate how long your boat might last? Perhaps based on when would the cost of maintenance/upgrading be more than the boat is worth - or maybe the boat just starts to fall apart. 

For my Bristol 45.5
1. Probably be looking to sell when we complete our circumnavigation. We intend to return to Lake Ontario and the boat is just too large for most of the little harbors we would be visiting. We have terrific reciprocal visiting privileges between yacht clubs, but most don't have docks for a 45'. This assumes we can get a decent price for the boat which may be a big assumption for a few years.

2. I think she will be going strong for many decades - the quality and strength of construction is so good that boat value is high enough to justify major upgrades like a new engine (not that is needed any time soon). I assume we will need new #2 and main on our return since we will likely be 40,000+ miles on genoa and more on the main.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

The only issues the Cal 29 has had were self imposed wood core and chain plate leaks from a compleat lack of owner care 

After the original systems lasted from 1970 until the 2011 refit was finished I cant really see the boat wearing out in my lifetime 

The real issue I foresee is insurance company's getting pissy about the age regardless of how well it surveys


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

1) A long time, because finances don't let me get something bigger.
2) Hopefully at least as long as intend owning her for


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

1. I'm figuring on ten - fifteen years. She is likely to be my last big sail boat though if I am still up to it I'll likely go for a stinker for my dotage. 

2. As to how long she will last, I suspect well beyond my lifetime.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Nearly 30 years old and still looks like 10, she'll likely outlast us unless something untoward occurs..

How long for us? As long as we can afford her, I suppose (got a nasty moorage increase notice this week....) but she's the right size for the two of us as long as we're fit. Unlikely we'll upgrade - we're on our way down from 40 feet - unless some long lost relative leaves us something unexpected...

As to the stinkpot.... maybe one day but not something fast, that's for sure. I'd prefer to think not, but on the water somehow would be better than not.


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## mgmhead (Jan 14, 2007)

tdw said:


> 1. I'm figuring on ten - fifteen years. She is likely to be my last big sail boat though if I am still up to it I'll likely go for a stinker for my dotage.
> 
> 2. As to how long she will last, I suspect well beyond my lifetime.


Ditto...


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

If someone would just build an assisted-living marina, we'd be able to stay on our CSY 33 forever.  As is, we've lived aboard for 10 years now and replaced just about every system on the boat. I expect she'll outlast us ...


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Faster said:


> snip
> 
> As to the stinkpot.... maybe one day but not something fast, that's for sure. I'd prefer to think not, but on the water somehow would be better than not.


Fast,
If i did go stinker it would be something slow that is for sure. No way I am paying the bills to go 20 knots. I'd reckon probably something like a Grand Banks or if i had the money maybe something like BP's 48' motor sailor without the masts, though I'm not sure Sr Perry would approve.


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## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

Gee: I intend to take her with me ,my true love! As to when;" I have only begon to fight!"==Dale


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Just sold my '72 C&C 30 after 11 years of ownership.

Could have kept her another 10 years, but, I was looking for more creature comforts.

Could have spent 10K upgrading, but no amount of reasonable investment would have given me more head, bunk and shower room.

Otherwise I would still have the boat. Great all around sailboat, but a bit too much like camping for a 6'2" person.

I don't have 4, 3, 2, or even 1 footitis, just headroomitis.

I would like to keep my next boat for at least ten years, hopefully fifteen. Then I will be close to retirement and can start looking for a comfy live aboard cruiser.

The hunt continues....


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## KIVALO (Nov 2, 2011)

When and if I am able to upgrade to a 34-38ft boat, at that time I will sell mine then upgrade. Otherwise I am keeping it for at least 20 years before I think about replacing it.

EDIT: I forgot, it's a 2003 Hunter 260.

Brad
s/v KIVALO


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## addict (Apr 5, 2010)

I'm planning on keeping my sunstar for another 10 years. She's got plenty of room and sails great. Built very well too... If and when I grow out of this boat I'll most likely move to a tayana 37....


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Until I swallow the anchor.

She's still young at 34, in the right hands maybe a 100 years.


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## lilslippery (Nov 12, 2010)

I hope to up grade in the next five years. Longer and more comforts
As for how long my 1971 islander will last I do not know? I think with proper care it will go for ever.


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## CorvetteGuy (Jun 4, 2011)

We've owned Mystry 1972 C&C Corvette for bout 20 years and will keep it for antother 20 until all the kids are gone then think about a liveaboard . This boat was built in the era where more glass the better very solid boat and well maintained it should last another 40++ years.


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## H and E (Sep 11, 2011)

Our boat is a good size for us (Catalina 25 w/408 hrs on diesel engine)). We will keep it until I am physically not able to care for it and sail it. The other reason to sell it is if the finical part of keeping it causes a problem. I suspect it will out last us given proper care. It is 23 years old now and in very good condition.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Unless I hit the lottery or something I expected to have my current boat at 25 years. That will make the boat 35 and me 75.

I expect as long as I maintain the boat it never will be so old that refit is more than replacement.


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## obelisk (May 23, 2008)

At this point, no plans to ever get rid of her.

As for how long she'll last, I have such a special attachment to her that I do not mind spending the money to upgrade her systems instead of putting that dough towards a newer model. I have not had to upgrade (involuntarily) any integral parts and she has very few small gelcoat blisters. Plus i'm happy to nearly always have a project.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Our boat is fairly new, so we expect her to be all we need for many years to come. We are particularly happy when we walk the boat shows, poke around the Oysters, Hylas, Swans, etc and come home and really like our boat better. We bought her because she was the perfect balance of sailing ability and accommodations for what we do 90% of the time. She was built as the flagship of the Jeanneau fleet at the time and is notably higher quality than the later vintage. In fact, most are very surprised to learn she is a Jeanneau when I'm asked.

I would like to think that she would do for the remainder of our days, but we truly hope (lord willing) to be on the water for another 20 to 30 years. Thats a long time. Realistically, a time will come (many many years down the road) where systems failures become a real hassle and one is faced with a serious retrofit or moving on. For the moment, that is so far over the horizon that I look forward to the journey and do not fear arriving at all.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

tdw said:


> 1. I'm figuring on ten - fifteen years. She is likely to be my last big sail boat though if I am still up to it I'll likely go for a stinker for my dotage.
> 
> ...


Shame on you

You never heard about those sailboats that sail alone and you just have to push some buttons? Some are a lot cheaper than your boat

Regards

Paulo


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Our current boat is *the* boat, so I don't expect to be selling her until the dream dies, or we do. At nearly 35 years old, our Rafiki 37 is in great shape. With reasonable maintenance she will long outlast me .


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

When I bought my last boat in 2002 (Bavaria 36) I thought that it would be my last sailboat and could well have been. I sold it in 2009 because I had the money for a better boat and because the boat was approaching the time where I would have to spend some serious money in maintenance: New sails, new standing rigging, new running rigging, new epoxy barrier, new batteries, new spraywood, new bimini and in not much time, new electronic and a overall on the engine. 

All that money would be wasted unless I stayed with a boat otherwise it would add little value to the boat (I learned that the hard way).

The boat still sails exactly as I have sold it, with the same sails and all, but the Italian I have sold it to don't use it like I used to do, I mean with long range cruising.

With proper maintenance a boat like that can be around for more than 30 years and that means that would have lasted all my life.

I preferred not to waste any money on the Bavaria maintenance and add that money to the value of the used boat to buy a new boat that will be maintenance free for the first 10 years or so.

The new boat will not be much bigger (2ft bigger), but more modern, faster more seaworthy and nicer and it certainly will outlast me

A last comment regarding cultural differences: I have noticed that many Americans talk about new boats as if they should last 50 years or more, and see defects in building techniques and details that instead of lasting 50 years will only last 30 or 25.

Nothing wrong with that but the funny thing is that while on Europe we tend to look at the boats as timed limited objects (maybe with the exception of the British), like cars, we tend to look at houses as hereditary objects, I mean, many houses are own by the same families for centuries and they pass from father to children. As result the traditional European house is built to outlast its owner and the generations to come while the American traditional house (I am talking about single houses) is built in a much less solid way and has a limited duration.

Of course it makes some sense to build a house to a limited duration, like boats, it will be a lot less expensive, but if you try that here nobody will want it even if the house will clearly outlive the owners time frame. I guess that the same happens in America regarding boats. 

Regards

Paulo


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Bought my last boat this summer. I expect the Rapture to last for the rest of my life. She could be considered my last hurrah. She is a wonderful live.....Er Cruising vessel. 
And with plenty of room for guests and I will still have my privacy. The aft cabin is the Captain's cabin_ (thats Me!!)_


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## msogin (Jun 20, 2006)

*longer next time*

After 14 years of ownership, we traded a Beneteau 411 for a new Sabre 426. The Beneteau was in good condition but we anticipated a number of refits - some of which will be necessary but others more difficult to predict. After weighing potential costs and desired upgrades, we elected to move to a more robust boat with improved performance and electric primaries that might allow us to sail for another couple of decades.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

My can sell the boat three days after I'm dead! 

Gary


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

I _think_ I made all of my buying mistakes with my Coronado 25. I'm very, very happy with my Pearson 30, and I can't see far enough into the future when I'd get rid of her.

I don't want to have to singlehand more boat than a 30 footer.
I don't want to pay more for dockage than I do for a 30 footer.
I don't think I could afford to properly maintain more than a 30 footer.
I have standing headroom through 80% of the boat.
There is plenty of living space for one or two, and guests would be very rare.
The boat sails well in the light air of the Chesapeake, and is fast enough for me.
The boat is in very solid condition.

As long as those criteria continue to be met, I can't envision selling it. I keep running through the criteria in my head, hoping that I've made the right choice. It sure feels right.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

I have had my Union Polaris 36 for 19 years, and I would not part with that ship.
That one I keep.
If you get your ship looking and performing the way you want, keep it.
.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Interesting responses and pretty much what I anticipated. I think that in 20 (or more years) most of the quality boats of today (that may already be 30+ years old) will be around and probably in good condition since they have doting owners. My understanding of the used boat market today is that there are relatively few used boats less than 10 years old (not a surprise since the number of new boats being sold 10 years ago was not high) and lots of boats from the 1970s to 1980s, that are proving to be hard to sell. In 2030, there could be a lot of boats for sale that are 50 to 60 years old and still going strong - and still not many relatively new boats because a quality boat today is so costly. The nearest comparitor to my boat that I could find in new market (and it is not perfect, but both cruising boats of similar displacement) was the Island Packet 46 (or thereabouts) and it was something over $700,000. 

Combine this with Paulo's European perspective and it is quite interesting.


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## cougar189 (Jul 8, 2011)

Been sailing about a year and lookin for my third. Fiberglass will outlast us all but I want a bigger boat!!


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

*Good for you*



cougar189 said:


> Been sailing about a year and lookin for my third. Fiberglass will outlast us all but I want a bigger boat!!


A personal economic stimulus package. 

i imagine you will slow down after about 5 years and 17 boats.


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## cougar189 (Jul 8, 2011)

Newby mistake bought a 25 poptop (not cool)..... moved upto a nice 27' but ready to liveaboard a 34 to ? found a 38' I LOVE just need $45000.00 can you spare it?


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

killarney_sailor said:


> Interesting responses and pretty much what I anticipated. I think that in 20 (or more years) most of the quality boats of today (that may already be 30+ years old) will be around and probably in good condition since they have doting owners. My understanding of the used boat market today is that there are relatively few used boats less than 10 years old (not a surprise since the number of new boats being sold 10 years ago was not high) and lots of boats from the 1970s to 1980s, that are proving to be hard to sell. In 2030, there could be a lot of boats for sale that are 50 to 60 years old and still going strong - and still not many relatively new boats because a quality boat today is so costly. The nearest comparitor to my boat that I could find in new market (and it is not perfect, but both cruising boats of similar displacement) was the Island Packet 46 (or thereabouts) and it was something over $700,000.
> 
> Combine this with Paulo's European perspective and it is quite interesting.


Another comment regarding European Market:

The importance Europeans give to more modern boats has nothing to do with the one given by Americans. The difference is so big that many Americans consider that a 20 year's old designed boat can be better than a modern designed boat. This kind of thought would be unthinkable to an European that values all the improvements racing has brought to sailboats and not only racing but interior design.

If an European is wealthy enough it will trade its boat when it is 4 to 6 years old, if it is not that wealthy but has the money for a new boat, each 6 to 10 years and only a very small minority among those who can buy a new boat, will maintain his boat more than 10 years.

Basically this shows several things:

That people want to benefice from the latest improvements in boat: hull rig and interior design (the one that race the boats are among the ones that keep their boats less time).

That the ones that can has no desire in losing time doing boat maintenance.

That an old boat gives no status

That's why you find so many European 10 year old boats on the Market.

Well, things are changing, crisis and all, but if the development model that brought us to the point we are today (consumerism/capitalism model) went on as on the last 20 years I think that in some years you would not have here a market for 30 or 40 year's old boats. Nobody would want them because the price of their maintenance and marina costs would be so high that would not compensate the trouble and the inconveniences of having an old boat with a very outdated design and less efficient design.

Of course, some exceptions will apply, like very special and expensive boats that we can consider classics an that will reward its owners with status and prestige. It would not be different with the market car: Who wants to own a 30 year's old car (and pay it's expensive maintenance) if he can have a new model? Only if that old car is a prestige Jaguar, Rools-Royce or something like that. Those will retain value if not the same comfort of a new model from the same segment and will not be used every-day but only on special occasions.

A final comment between European and American market: On Europe sailboat market is a main market in what regards sailboats, meaning that the ones that have money to buy them new want them. On the United States it is a very secondary market meaning that the ones that have money to buy them would buy a motor boat instead.

This explains why on the Europe there is a large percentage of boats with less than 10 years while on the US they are quite few. Someone has pointed out on another thread that it seems to be changing on the US, I mean with prestige advertisements with sailboats as scenery. Well, that would give me a big satisfaction. That would not also boost the boat market as the global interest in sailing that is much higher in Europe than in states and that means more sponsors for racing and boat development.

Regards

Paulo


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

My observations visiting relatives in Holland back that all up, Paulo.... no one drives old cars, no one would be caught dead buying used furniture..there's a great deal of weight given to one's appearance of status in all things.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Hey Andrews,

Regarding selling your boat to have a motorboat, you can always have a Bavaria instead

They are putting this system on their boats (0.45s):

4 systèmes innovants pour un accastillage plus performant

As I have told you, just push the button

Regards

Paulo


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## jennsea (Dec 8, 2011)

Just bought our 39 year old ferro, she's yard built and solid.
I intend to live on her for at least 30 years, and suspect that if I maintain her that she will go on for at least 60 years!
Ferros last beyond a lifetime if you get a good one!


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## RNC725 (Aug 19, 2010)

*we'll bend with the wind....*

for us it will probably depend on the future and possible/probable grandkids. Our Cal-30 is fine for us but I suspect could get a bit crowded down the way but who knows? We are keeping our 5 kayaks so maybe THEY can paddle, WE can sail, they can tarp/hammock out on an island, we'll take the spacious v-berth.
We'll need to replace some sails in a couple of years but the original A4 is still running fine. We are truly blessed to have a 1967 boat still in good shape.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

Just a comment.
Here in the US with the environmental regulations and permit requirements it seems that not many more boat moorings/ slips/ docks can be built (could be wrong on this). So what will happen. You have all these old boats taking up all the available dock space and new yacht builders wanting to sell new boats, but no place for owners to put them. I would think the same thing would be going on in Europe. Many boats it seems could last 100 years given some decent maintenance. So what gives? Seems a major hold up in selling new boats would be where is someone going to keep it. How is the mooring availability on the mainland us (here in hawaii about the only moorings available are at state harbors and they have a 5 year waiting list) and what is availability like in Europe?

BTW boat is a 1978 S&S 34, plan to keep her as long as I can sail her then give her to my kids (if they are interested). She should last as long as fiberglass hull lasts- say maybe 100 years. She is pretty simple to maintain as she is so basic.

Regards


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I think Hawaii may be a different situation than many areas. Certainly most marinas and yacht clubs on Lake Ontario have space - just waiting for a new (or old) boat to appear. I think the problem with new boats is that they just cost too much for the average person. We could not have considered going cruising if we had to buy a new(ish) boat to do it.


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## Ocarina II (Nov 21, 2011)

I love my boat and would never replace her. New designs leave me cold.
With epoxy a boat will last forever to say nothing of the teak and bronze.
I don't think modern boats can become heirlooms due to their lightness of build.
If I get to old to sail I'll get an electric launch. I have a torqeedo powered skiff that is the next best thing to sailing.


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## genieskip (Jan 1, 2008)

My current boat will certainly outlast me and my ability to sail her. Foredecks are not good for walkers!


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

casey1999 said:


> Just a comment.
> Here in the US with the environmental regulations and permit requirements it seems that not many more boat moorings/ slips/ docks can be built (could be wrong on this). So what will happen. You have all these old boats taking up all the available dock space and new yacht builders wanting to sell new boats, but no place for owners to put them. I would think the same thing would be going on in Europe. Many boats it seems could last 100 years given some decent maintenance. So what gives? Seems a major hold up in selling new boats would be where is someone going to keep it. How is the mooring availability on the mainland us (here in hawaii about the only moorings available are at state harbors and they have a 5 year waiting list) and what is availability like in Europe?
> 
> BTW boat is a 1978 S&S 34, plan to keep her as long as I can sail her then give her to my kids (if they are interested). She should last as long as fiberglass hull lasts- say maybe 100 years. She is pretty simple to maintain as she is so basic.
> ...


Yes you are right in what regards to Europe and the situation seems similar to Hawaii. Long waiting lists on many countries and very expensive marinas. France and England have big problems. The costs are so high that if you have money for them you have also money to have a fairly recent boat, so old boats has you say will start to be a problem since nobody will want them.

Typically for a 40ft boat you pay on insurance and marina about $8500 a year, not counting with maintenance that will cost about $3000 if the boat has less than 5 years and more if it is older.

Disposal of fiberglass boats is complicated, costly and raises ecological problems. I bet that soon we will have to pay for each boat a tax equivalent to the cost of its disposal.

Regards

Paulo


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## dhays (Jul 9, 2010)

I'll have my boat for as long as my wife and I find we are enjoying her. I have no idea how long that may be. My folks used their Catalina 36 extensively year round with my father having a fatal stroke while they were anchored out in BC at the age of 74.

Right now, a sailboat works for us. Who knows in 10-20 years? If we are still sailing in 20 years, I think it likely that we will still be sailing our C400. It is only 6 years old and was built well. How long it lasts will be entirely up to my being diligent with maintenance. We certainly won't go larger.

As others have mentioned, it certainly is possible that as we age, we may opt to move to a stinker, something comfortable with a displacement hull. For now however, we are happy with our boat (we are very fortunate) and our only complaint is not enough time to enjoy it more.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Australia in recent years has most certainly caught the "it must be new" disease. Second hand car prices have most certainly plumetted, new boats depreciate faster than they once did. 

I confess I am old fashioned in this respect. Sure I owned new cars but quite frankly I doubt I will ever buy another. Both our cars were a few years old when we bought them and have still given us long faithful service at a considerable price advantage to the same model bought new. 

To some extent boats are a bit different cos systems on older boats are difficult to repair or to have repaired but even so I am content to go with a ten year old model from a builder of good repute though I can understand why the racers among us like to have the latest go fast bits and pieces.

I'd also be very interested to see to what extent what is rapidly becoming a European economic meltdown will alter the European mindset.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

tdw said:


> ...
> 
> I'd also be very interested to see to what extent what is rapidly becoming a European economic meltdown will alter the European mindset.


I would not be that interested because if things go really bad on Europe you will have a world crisis far worse than the last one and chances are that some big economies that are very connected like the American and Japanese will suffer heavily and I will not know till what point because the factors that are behind the European crisis are common to Japan and to the United States. They are there waiting to explode and may well explode.

Why do you think that Australia, Japan and United States are buying European debt even if it is a risky affair? Well, the answer is obvious, nobody will do a bad business if it has a possibility of not doing it

Regards

Paulo


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## JedNeck (Sep 22, 2011)

I bought my Cal21 over the summer as a stepping stone boat, with the full intent to sell her next year after learning to sail her...but she just fits our needs so well with her swing keel for the thin water in front of our dock and the ability to trailer anywhere we like. Add to that the ability to sleep 4, low maintenance and no moorage on our dock or in our driveway and she is near perfect, for now. 

We plan to keep her now for at least 5 years when living aboard becomes a viable option because the kidos are out of the house.


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## sailjunkie (Nov 4, 2009)

PaulinVictoria said:


> 1) A long time, because finances don't let me get something bigger.
> 2) Hopefully at least as long as intend owning her for


Well said, Paul.

I would also add that for the 2 of us, 30' meets our needs. Further, going bigger means more boat systems to learn and more $'s needed for improvements. 

Instead of buying a different boat, I can see spending money on additional improvemens that increase our enjoyment. However, I doubt if those improvements will significantly affect the boat's re-sale value.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

tdw said:


> Australia in recent years has most certainly caught the "it must be new" disease. Second hand car prices have most certainly plumetted, new boats depreciate faster than they once did.


From what I understand the economy in Australia is booming, unlike the United States.


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## fryewe (Dec 4, 2004)

I have owned my NS27 since '83. Figgered she would be the only boat I ever owned. She was a bit precious considering my income at that time, and I didn't think I could afford to buy another boat later. I was smitten by her. She is paid off (you'd expect after 28 years). I gave her my Mom's name so now I can't get rid of her. She will outlive me, and I will pass her on to my granddaughter.


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## patrscoe (May 9, 2011)

Maybe 10 yrs or so. I am in my mid/low 40's and hoping to do more extensive cruises when our kids are in college, which is another 9 to 10 yrs. Perhaps purchasing a larger and more of a offshore design. That's the plan but money, children's college, health, etc... will play a factor into this.

Our current sailboat will outlast our plans.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Peoples,
I've started a new thread on Off Topic to discuss the economic questions raised here. Some posts have been copied (not moved, just copied) to that thread.


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## flagorio (May 24, 2010)

*1963 Rawson Ketch ... Forever*

I feel for you wood core guys, my 1963 Rawson ketch is solid fiberglass. It is a bullet proof 5 kph. It is heavy, 12,000 pounds in a full keel 30 foot ketch, but I am in no hurry. It stores everything I need and then some. The surveyor said it would outlast me! 
For the wife and I, we live aboard summers while we cruise. So I will keep her for the duration. Plus I can't get over the compliments that I get for having an plastic classic in Bristol condition.


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