# Tsunami Headed For Hawaii!!!



## SailorNate (Sep 19, 2009)

http://www.weather.gov/ptwc/

The news is reporting it has passed Guam with no causalities.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Looks like most of the West Coast is under a T-warning. Loosen your spring lines and run out some more anchor rode!


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

i just talked to someone in the philippines,apparently it has already reached there too but no major damage.btw i've heard that if your in a boat offshore the effects are barely noticible


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## SailorNate (Sep 19, 2009)

Hawaii is reporting this as a non-event so far. Nothing reported above shoreline on the south shore of Oahu. The reef at Diamond Head has been exposed a half-dozen times now on Oahu. Haleiwa Harbor has had some flooding, reports of fish washed up in the parking lot.

Japan, however, has been hit hard by the quakes and tsunamis. Terrible destruction and loss of life in Japan. Reactor leak and ongoing aftershocks.


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

bljones said:


> Looks like most of the West Coast is under a T-warning. Loosen your spring lines and run out some more anchor rode!


I think it would be wiser to get one's boat to sea and in deep water if at all possible. The surge could be pretty spectacular if the news reports are to be believed.

FWIW...


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Depending upon view of things, not sure 6' waves are non events. certainly not like what happened in Japan, but still some waves. 2-3' waves are predicted for the west coast of Wa, Or and Ca right now. Ay one below 50' elevation in Or is recomended you go to higher ground per another person I know. got into his MH as he is at 45 or so feet. Figured it was better too, than not to evacuate. I also know some one that lives in the channels South of Ventura.......Could be interesting over the next couple of hours. I doubt the surge will get into puget sound where I am.


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## SailorNate (Sep 19, 2009)

"Non-event" and "failnami" are quotes from KHON2 news. Reports are Kahului and Haleiwa have significant harbor damage. Still waiting on surise to asses damages.


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

CNN is reporting 3 waves of it to hit west coast in 6-8 hours now .. 8' waves of 30 min duration thay say stay a mile away from shore for it ...

Boaters get out to sea and it should roll under your keel 

Good luck Westies !


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

The pictures are heartbreaking for Japan. A lot of people died or are dying. My thoughts go out to all of them.

Brian


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

If anyone wants to keep track on the scene via webcam, here's the link for the entrance to King Harbor. Maybe a couple of moderate-sized waves will flush out all the dead fish  .


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

+1 on that CD , it isnt looking good for Japan


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

And just when we think we rule the world, mother nature shows us who is really in charge.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

The number of victims in Japan are amazingly low. This is one of the biggest earthquakes ever. On the Portuguese television they were in direct with a Brazilian that was talking about the effects when his little girl come home. All the kids were sent home. the little girl come in with a little funny helmet on his head. Apparently they have helmets in the school for all the children. Impressive.

The number of victims had increased a lot. An entire train is missing supposedly taken away by a giant wave 

They are afraid of more replicas. 

My soul is with them.

Paulo


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## svHornblower (Dec 11, 2010)

The pictures of some of the devastation in Japan are quite impressive. My heart goes out to those affected.


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## rmeador (Jan 16, 2010)

Japan is indeed quite a mess, and I feel for the people affected. But the "tsunami" that hit hawaii was way over hyped. CNN is reporting (with video) 7' waves. I believe that place is known for surfing, which generally has larger waves than that. But according to the media reports, 7' waves are HUGE!


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

rmeador said:


> Japan is indeed quite a mess, and I feel for the people affected. But the "tsunami" that hit hawaii was way over hyped. CNN is reporting (with video) 7' waves. I believe that place is known for surfing, which generally has larger waves than that. But according to the media reports, 7' waves are HUGE!


The difference between a seven foot wave and a seven foot tsunami is like walking up the knoll behind your home and climbing Everest.

There is generally not much to smile about when tsunami comes ashore.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

rmeador said:


> Japan is indeed quite a mess, and I feel for the people affected. But the "tsunami" that hit hawaii was way over hyped. CNN is reporting (with video) 7' waves. I believe that place is known for surfing, which generally has larger waves than that. But according to the media reports, 7' waves are HUGE!


Tsunamis are not like regular (wind) waves. A 7 ft tsunami, particularly one hitting at high tide, could cause quite a mess in low-lying coastal areas.


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## rmeador (Jan 16, 2010)

Perhaps you can explain to me how these 7' waves can be more dangerous than any other 7' waves? If it was 7' on the open ocean, then yeah that would be a big problem, but if it's 7' after it has compressed in shallow water, it shouldn't be any worse than any other 7' wave. The tsunami waves they're showing on the news look no different than normal waves (obviously I'm talking about the ones in hawaii. the video from japan is showing a much bigger, more destructive wave).


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

A friend in S cal on he water front is seeing a surge beginning, about 1' a minute, hopefully not too big, altho the tide is down 6', another 18" to the house............


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## paradoxbox (Oct 6, 2006)

hello all, i'm living in tokyo japan. today was the scariest day of my life. but i can say i survived one of the most powerful earthquakes in history which is neato. i was sure i was going to die and i'm no coward, i've felt big quakes before but this was something else and i was just waiting for the intensity to increase and destroy my building.


anyway, the difference between a 7 foot swell that surfers ride and a 7 foot tsunami is that a tsunami rushes in and continues to rise, anything that is under that 7 feet will be submerged. the tsunami will travel inland for miles as long as the ground is under 7 feet above normal sea level.

in sendai, the area hit hardest by the quake and tsunami they were hit by a 32 foot tsunami.

don't be fooled by the images. there are hundreds or thousands of dead so far. but it's the middle of the night and we are still experiencing tsunamis from the aftershocks which have been incessant since 3pm when the big one hit.

i have friends up in sendai and aomori, i hope they are ok but can't reach them.

my building is still shaking as i type this from the aftershocks.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

paradoxbox said:


> hello all, i'm living in tokyo japan. today was the scariest day of my life. but i can say i survived one of the most powerful earthquakes in history which is neato. i was sure i was going to die and i'm no coward, i've felt big quakes before but this was something else and i was just waiting for the intensity to increase and destroy my building.
> 
> anyway, the difference between a 7 foot swell that surfers ride and a 7 foot tsunami is that a tsunami rushes in and continues to rise, anything that is under that 7 feet will be submerged. the tsunami will travel inland for miles as long as the ground is under 7 feet above normal sea level.
> 
> ...


Good luck and all our wishes to you and everyone else that is going through this.

I agree about the loss of life. It will be terrible.

Brian


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

Santa Cruz Ca. has seen some bummper car ACTION. A number of boats sunk, and running loose in the harbor..........*i2f*


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

sawingknots said:


> i just talked to someone in the philippines,apparently it has already reached there too but no major damage.btw i've heard that if your in a boat offshore the effects are barely noticible


Right they are extremely long wavelength waves. I know a guy who was anchored in the indonesia during their big tsunami. He said when the water started receding from the harbor they all pulled anchor and headed to open water. Once they got out into deep water it was just a slight rise of a few meters , few hundred meters wide.

The danger isn't the height of the tsunami, it is the volume of water that is moving. In deep water the wavelength may be the depth the earthquake occured, (maybe a mile), as it reaches shallow water its velocity, (hundreds of meters per second), coupled by the change in depth as it reaches the continental shelf, that causes the damage. Think of a 6 foot tide added onto a 6 foot tide that occures in less than a minute. Like sloshing water in a large shallow bowl, compared to sloshing water in a bucket with steep sides.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Folks, we really appreciate the updates. However can you let us know where you found out whatever you're telling us? We are all concerned and want to make sure we're getting the best information.

Furthermore, can somebody clarify the link in the original post? If you click on one of the icons or the "report" links in the list, you get a list of times, locations, heights, and periods. However, the times don't have a date attached, and they're in UTC. For example, 1654 UTC, is that 0854 today or tomorrow on the west coast?


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

I was watching it on local tv as I was typing. It was rather chaotic. The left & right hands not knowing the other exists. People standing there scratching their heads, and these seemed to be employees?.......*i2f*


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Adam- they were predicted to hit our area today between 0700-1200. The coast of WA got about 1' and I haven't heard anything new. I think the concern here is past. We haven't seen anything here in the SJ's.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Interesting... I wonder if it's more due to panic than wave action.

I'm getting conflicting reports. NOAA says Langara Island (northern BC) saw 0.52 meters (http://wcatwc.arh.noaa.gov/obs/obs.php), but the CBC reports that Emergency Management BC said there were no measurable changes (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/03/11/tsunami-warnings-bc.html).

Parts of California are seeing almost 7 feet. Note that this is wave amplitude, not wave height, so in terms boaters are familiar with, that's almost 14 feet. Apparently Crescent City was hit pretty hard (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...ent-city-california-20110311,0,3043382.story).

You hear stories about tsunamis traveling up inlets. Does anybody know about the danger to protected areas like the Straight of Georgia and Puget Sound, San Francisco Bay, or the Columbia River?

edit: "hit hard" may have been an overstatement.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

This is a real disaster for those in Japan - the images coming out now are mind-boggling. What a tragedy.

Adam, there's no warning for the inside waters (Juan de Fuca and Georgia Strait) but there's no doubt that to an open channel like the Alberni Inlet the amplified effects of a tidal wave can be considerable. Back in the '60s there was a big quake in Alaska and the resulting tsunami rolled into Port Alberni putting fishboats in the trees.

I've seen an old archival photo somewhere but can't track it down now.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

rmeador said:


> Perhaps you can explain to me how these 7' waves can be more dangerous than any other 7' waves? If it was 7' on the open ocean, then yeah that would be a big problem, but if it's 7' after it has compressed in shallow water, it shouldn't be any worse than any other 7' wave. The tsunami waves they're showing on the news look no different than normal waves (obviously I'm talking about the ones in hawaii. the video from japan is showing a much bigger, more destructive wave).


The difference is primarily in the wavelength. Wind waves and ground swell, which are just wind waves that were generated a long distance away, have wavelengths on the order of tens or hundreds of meters. In contrast, tsunamis generate waves with wavelengths that are tens of kilometers. That means two things: first, tsunamis travel extremely fast (hundreds of km/hr); and, second, there is a tremendous volume of water in each tsunami wave. Volume times velocity results in total wave energy.

When a wind wave (or groundswell) hits the beach the volume of water that gets thrown up onto the shore is fairly small and washes back into the ocean right away. When a tsunami hits the beach the volume of water keeps flowing landward for quite some time. Often, the land hasn't completely drained before the next wave in the sequence hit shore, compounding the effect. If subsequent waves in a tsunami sequence hit the water receding from previous waves, and/or of the topography is just "right", the waves will start to break, generating crests (and water velocities) much larger than the initial waves.

Fortunately, unlike wind-generated waves, tsunamis (because to their tremendous wavelengths) interact with the sea floor all the way across the ocean. This makes it possible for sensors to detect them long before they reach the coast, AND it means that they lose much more energy as they travel.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

rmeador said:


> Perhaps you can explain to me how these 7' waves can be more dangerous than any other 7' waves? If it was 7' on the open ocean, then yeah that would be a big problem, but if it's 7' after it has compressed in shallow water, it shouldn't be any worse than any other 7' wave. The tsunami waves they're showing on the news look no different than normal waves (obviously I'm talking about the ones in hawaii. the video from japan is showing a much bigger, more destructive wave).


I am no expert, but I will explain it as I understand it... happily corrected by anyone that knows better.

I think the term "wave height" is a misnomer. I think calling it a very rapid water rise would be a better term (much like a powerful hurricane, but instantaneous). So instead of a narrow wave that strikes and is gone, imagine the entire ocean rising X-feet and on top of that you get your wave action. Complicating it further is that the massive, rapid rise also creates its own waves.

So if you are in deep ocean water, a rapid water rise will not feel like anything and may not be noticeable. However, where the water becomes shallow, the energy will dispurse itself and on top of the water rise, you get your waves, etc. In areas where the energy can be spread out (a wide shoreline), the energy can be dispursed more evenly, like putting your hand flat on the sand when a wave passes by. However, if you cup your hand into a "V" into an approaching wave, the force, height, and speed increases exponentially. That is why some areas will see very little effect and others will see a large effect.

That is how I have looked at it. ANyone is free to correct me.

Brian


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## dnf777 (Jun 23, 2007)

Ditto what cruisingDad said.
This is when America needs to step up and make use of our resourses and wealth and get HELP to those people. Most of us can't even begin to imagine the terror and suffering they're experiencing. I especially feel for the small children.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

I heard that Sendai only had 5 minutes warning... and a million people. I don't know if that is true, but if so, the death toll could be terrible. And cudos to the Japanese government for the preparation they had already put in place. I believe the lives saved are directly related to that.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

They have just had two fresh, new earthquakes (not aftershocks, earthquakes). One was a 6.1 in mainland and only .6 (yes, 6 tenths) of a mile deep!!!

I also looked and just off the coast of oregon, we had several 5ish earthquakes. 

I wonder if this is some kind of new, major techtonic shift in the plates that has not been seen before? Is that possible? What would the effects be, I wonder? THey often cause volcanic activity (Fuji and Mt St Helens being two very good examples).

Brian


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

Cruisingdad said:


> I am no expert, but I will explain it as I understand it... happily corrected by anyone that knows better.
> 
> I think the term "wave height" is a misnomer. I think calling it a very rapid water rise would be a better term (much like a powerful hurricane, but instantaneous). So instead of a narrow wave that strikes and is gone, imagine the entire ocean rising X-feet and on top of that you get your wave action. Complicating it further is that the massive, rapid rise also creates its own waves.


That is essentially correct. A couple of points, however: first, tsunamis, like wind-generated waves, often travel in "wave-trains" or a series of waves separated from the next series by time/distance. Also, tsunamis can reflect off of headlands, et cetera, to make the local wave pattern even more complicated. If the distances match up just right, these reflected waves can form "constructive interference" patterns with one another (and with subsequent waves in the series) to make for even larger waves in certain locales. As I recall, this was part of the problem in Hilo, HI during the 1946 and 1960 tsunamis.



Cruisingdad said:


> So if you are in deep ocean water, a rapid water rise will not feel like anything and may not be noticeable. However, where the water becomes shallow, the energy will dispurse itself and on top of the water rise, you get your waves, etc. In areas where the energy can be spread out (a wide shoreline), the energy can be dispursed more evenly, like putting your hand flat on the sand when a wave passes by. However, if you cup your hand into a "V" into an approaching wave, the force, height, and speed increases exponentially. That is why some areas will see very little effect and others will see a large effect.


In the open ocean, a tsunami can have very little wave height (less than a meter) because the water is so deep. As it approaches shore, and the water begins to shallow, the wave is forced to slow as it interacts more strongly with the bottom (much like ground swell). This results in the larger wave heights we see along the coast. If the transition from deep water (a.k.a., abyssal plain) to continental shelf/coastline is sudden enough, the tsunami loses very little energy and a larger tsunami can result. This is also part of the problem with places like Crescent City, CA, and Hilo, HI.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Man, what a freakin' disaster. Unbelievable.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

Cruisingdad said:


> I also looked and just off the coast of oregon, we had several 5ish earthquakes.
> 
> Brian


That part of the coast is very seismically active. There is an area known as the Mendocino triple junction, where three major faults meet, off of Cape Mendocino. Quakes in the 4 to 5 range happen there all the time. Fortunately, most of the bigger quakes there are on the transverse strike-slip faults, so they don't produce tsunamis. And the quakes on the subduction faults tend to be really deep within the crust.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

CD has it. From Wiki:

Tsunamis have a small amplitude (wave height) offshore, and a very long wavelength (often hundreds of kilometers long), which is why they generally pass unnoticed at sea, forming only a slight swell usually about 300 millimetres (12 in) above the normal sea surface. They grow in height when they reach shallower water, in a wave shoaling process described below. A tsunami can occur in any tidal state and even at low tide can still inundate coastal areas.

The tsunami that left Indonesia in 2004 (was it?) hit the coast of Africa and killed people in Kenya the next morning. It was recorded as traveling at 800kms an hour. A little different to a surfer's wave.

Another interesting fact that I heard co-incidentally a few days ago (before the quake) is that all the people in all the buildings in Tokyo amount to 18 people per square meter of surface area in the city outside of the buildings. What does that mean? Well, there is no possible evacuation plan because there isn't enough space in the streets for all the people to leave the buildings at the same time. That's quite scary.

RMEADOR - just watch the videos on TV of water wiping out cities - that's pretty much all the explanation one needs.


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## rmeador (Jan 16, 2010)

I've been watching the videos. Japan is indeed in the midst of a terrible disaster. The videos of cities being wiped out are from Japan. I've never doubted this. All I was commenting on is the media hyping the threat of the tsunami landfall in Hawaii, which turned out to be a barely noteworthy event. From USA Today: "limited damage and no injuries", "it is rapidly becoming business as usual across the state".


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## paradoxbox (Oct 6, 2006)

it's a real s**t situation here

snow is falling in sendai and it's hampering things.

it's just starting to get light out now, i hope this helps rescue efforts. 

we're still shaking hard here, constant and huge aftershocks. nobody can sleep.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

rmeador said:


> I've been watching the videos. Japan is indeed in the midst of a terrible disaster. The videos of cities being wiped out are from Japan. I've never doubted this. All I was commenting on is the media hyping the threat of the tsunami landfall in Hawaii, which turned out to be a barely noteworthy event. From USA Today: "limited damage and no injuries", "it is rapidly becoming business as usual across the state".


Unfortunately, it is difficult to predict with much certainty just how bad a tsunami will be. It's a little like tornado warnings: it's much better to sound a warning giving everyone the chance to get to safety, and then say, "Oh well, better safe than sorry," _a thousand times over_, than _*not*_ warning folks about just one devastating event.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

Having grown up in the Kansai and lost a number of close friends in the great Kansai quake in 95 this is a very shocking and worrisome event; my hopes go out to those in Japan and those affected by the tsunami!


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

+1 CD...The pictures are heartbreaking and brought tears to my eyes. Mother nature is always in charge and dont forget it.

Did anyone see the pictures of the whirlpool in one of the cities harbor...unbeleivable.Looked like the Andromedea Galaxy

Dave


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Southern California (San Pedro area) - no damage at all. Tides went in and out within 30 minutes or so, and were lower than normal by about three feet. 

We took our boat our into the harbor so that we would be in deeper water just in case. We did pull up to a dock where I normally had six feet below my keel, but within a few minutes you could see the current start to flow out again and before I knew it, I only had a foot between us and the bottom. We threw off the lines and went back out.

Regarding how a tsunami appears in open water; if you all may recall, during the 2004 tsunami that wiped out 200k people, there were fishermen and divers a few miles out that did not even know what had happened.


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

dnf777 said:


> Ditto what cruisingDad said.
> This is when America needs to step up and make use of our resourses and wealth and get HELP to those people. Most of us can't even begin to imagine the terror and suffering they're experiencing. I especially feel for the small children.


It would be nice huh , and the right thing to do .....But let me tell yall it doesn't work that way !

During Katrina we ( my bro in law and myself) loaded up the bobcat on the trailer hooked it to our dumptruck loaded up all the water we could carry . had 4-50 gal drums of diesel also .... headed to the big eazy to offer our help free of course just being plain ole Americans and wanted just to help,,,,,,,,needless to say we allmost got arrested !

The Man doesn't want anyone "helping" anyone for free unless The Man can slush fund money from it and line thier pockets !

Of course we gave the water to everyone we ran into and left it all there ..

That cost us 3 months of sprigging money we earned that year for giveing away water ( dumptrucks use a lot of diesel )..

Rant over ....

Hope the ppl affected by this Tsunami all recover , heart felt for those who suffer.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

chef2sail said:


> +1 CD...The pictures are heartbreaking and brought tears to my eyes. Mother nature is always in charge and dont forget it.
> 
> Did anyone see the pictures of the whirlpool in one of the cities harbor...unbeleivable.Looked like the Andromedea Galaxy
> 
> Dave


I saw that whirpool... unreal. The boat circling it was bigger than mine and looked like a play toy.

I shutter to think of the death count on this thing. It is certainly the worst disaster Japan has felt since WWII, and argueably worse in many cases (not counting Hiroshima, etc).

Speaking of Hiroshima... they have radiation levels 1000 times normal in their control room and 8 times normal at the front gate at one plant and they just declared a national nuclear ermergency at another. Thye moved in Radiatoin APCs and moved the evacuation circle to over 6 miles. I read that they have a leak and are having to vent outside. More worrisome is that they are having problems containing it as it may be getting worse. Without the nuclear plant issues, Japan will suffer for years on this. With it... good Lord help them. I also read GE was evacuating their nuclear people. Hopefully I am reading too much into it and it is just the typical news agencies overblowing things. But in my business, actions speak louder than words and their actions are pretty scary, no matter what words they are using that all is ok.

Scary business, that.

Brian


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I have heard the same about the reactors. A friend of mine...actuallyy owns a 37 Tartan was retired and was called in by the govt today and is flying there on a military plane as we speak. Hihs area of expertise is that of a nuclear engineer. He helped verify the Russian decomissioning of the nuke missles and was also called to Chernobyl when that reactor melted down.

This looks grim.

I did see that boat circling the whirlpool and it looked like the tidy bowl man...but I know it was a vessel over 40-50 feet. Unreal.

dave


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## SailingStNick (Dec 13, 2006)

If you had come to Mississippi we would have taken care of you! We also would find a place for you to use your equipment for good. New Orleans people didn't want help, just a handout. Mississippi pulled itself up by its bootstraps and went to work.

off topic rant over



HDChopper said:


> It would be nice huh , and the right thing to do .....But let me tell yall it doesn't work that way !
> 
> During Katrina we ( my bro in law and myself) loaded up the bobcat on the trailer hooked it to our dumptruck loaded up all the water we could carry . had 4-50 gal drums of diesel also .... headed to the big eazy to offer our help free of course just being plain ole Americans and wanted just to help,,,,,,,,needless to say we allmost got arrested !
> 
> ...


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## dnf777 (Jun 23, 2007)

SailingStNick said:


> If you had come to Mississippi we would have taken care of you! We also would find a place for you to use your equipment for good. New Orleans people didn't want help, just a handout. Mississippi pulled itself up by its bootstraps and went to work.
> 
> off topic rant over


I think you paint with a little too broad of a brush. Sure, there was scam and abuse, but there were lots of good folks who needed help, and were very appreciative of it. There's always bad apples, but in times like that, I really try to focus on the good in people. I hope you made a full recovery. I have nothing but admiration for those who rebuilt and moved on.

I spent a year in NOLA from Katrina forward. What a story.

dave


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

What caused the whirlpool?


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

Sublime said:


> What caused the whirlpool?


Someone pulled the plug.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

The images out now are truly gut-wrenching. 100 foot vessels being tossed around like bathtub toys, walls of debris laden water inundating huge areas, passenger-carrying ships and trains unaccounted for, and still the shaking continues.

Even the surge in some of the California marinas, though piddling by comparison, was impressive given the distance traveled..

This is a disaster that will take time to know the real toll...


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Agreeing with Faster. Gut wrenching scenes coming out of Japan.
Ecological disaster for them right at home even if they get the nuke plants under control. Perhaps they will forget about whale blubber for a while while they rebuild. Greeenpeace/Sea Shepherd will still be waiting for them if they want more whale meat.
Devastation at the hand of mother earth is very compelling. I'm in a hotel near Norfolk, VA right now after driving down the DelMarVa peninsula and wonder what an event like this would cause here. It would be truly CATASTROPHIC (if you have a cat you will know what I mean).
Horribly compelling news.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

The images out of Japan last night were simply horrifying to watch. One can only feel utter sadness for the people effected, that they now have at least one nuclear reactor possibly going feral is utterly apalling.

That the death toll thus far is so low compared to the one that hit Indonesia a year or so back is amazing but one guesses it is going to get a lot worse.

Nothing much more I can say really. Horrid stuff.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

CalebD said:


> Agreeing with Faster. Gut wrenching scenes coming out of Japan.
> Ecological disaster for them right at home even if they get the nuke plants under control. Perhaps they will forget about whale blubber for a while while they rebuild. Greeenpeace/Sea Shepherd will still be waiting for them if they want more whale meat.
> Devastation at the hand of mother earth is very compelling. I'm in a hotel near Norfolk, VA right now after driving down the DelMarVa peninsula and wonder what an event like this would cause here. It would be truly CATASTROPHIC (if you have a cat you will know what I mean).
> Horribly compelling news.


Caleb, Sorry but your comments are inappropriate. Given how many innocents are dead or dying in Japan right now whale blubber seems a fairly insignificant issue.

My two cents...


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

SlowButSteady said:


> Someone pulled the plug.


It must have been Godzilla. And the boat was his bath toy.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

THe randomly chose three people out of 90 and confirmed radiation poisoning. THe walls outside one of the reactors collapsed after explosoin, exposing the main reactor casing. They are certain that they have had some meltdown due to the presense in the air. 

Now they are saying it is cooling down after the explosion and pressure id dropping? I wonder why? Is that a good thing? Could it be because it is no longer a closed system and it is exchanging heat with the atmosphere? How could they not know that flooding it with water would produce hydrogen that would react with teh air and cause an explosion? And if it was not the reactor, as they say, and just the cooling system that exploded... isn't that almost as bad as that will now prevent cooling? Just curious, but scary stuff.

Brian


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

Cruisingdad said:


> THe randomly chose three people out of 90 and confirmed radiation poisoning. THe walls outside one of the reactors collapsed after explosoin, exposing the main reactor casing. They are certain that they have had some meltdown due to the presense in the air.
> 
> Now they are saying it is cooling down after the explosion and pressure id dropping? I wonder why? Is that a good thing? Could it be because it is no longer a closed system and it is exchanging heat with the atmosphere? How could they not know that flooding it with water would produce hydrogen that would react with teh air and cause an explosion? And if it was not the reactor, as they say, and just the cooling system that exploded... isn't that almost as bad as that will now prevent cooling? Just curious, but scary stuff.
> 
> Brian


This is why nuclear power is _*not*_ a "clean" technology in any way, shape, or form.


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Faster said:


> Even the surge in some of the California marinas, though piddling by comparison, was impressive given the distance traveled..


We are still ( today ) having some pretty good surges though nothing like yesterday; Also, I just heard they are having issues with a second reactor at the same site.

Horrific is a understatement, they say that some of the farmland may never recede


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## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

SlowButSteady said:


> This is why nuclear power is _*not*_ a "clean" technology in any way, shape, or form.


You're right it probably isn't a good choice in California where you are as it isn't/wasn't in Sendai because you can't build for 8.5 and up earthquakes and you know they will hit in Japan, California, Indonesia, therefore those areas should not have those type of power-plants but anywhere else they are "clean" and a good solution to us power hungry people.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

EJO said:


> You're right it probably isn't a good choice in California where you are as it isn't/wasn't in Sendai because you can't build for 8.5 and up earthquakes and you know they will hit in Japan, California, Indonesia, therefore those areas should not have those type of power-plants but anywhere else they are "clean" and a good solution to us power hungry people.


NOTHING that has the possibility of poisoning the environment with radioisotopes is "clean", period. Was the Three Mile Island facility clean? Was Fermi 1 clean? Was Chernobyl clean? If nuclear power is so damned "clean" and "safe" why do US nuke plants need to have their insurance underwritten by the the federal government?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Good people,
Any discussion re the rights and/or wrongs of whales or nuclear energy is really not appropriate to this thread. By all means start a couple of new ones and go for it but lets keep this one for messages re the plight of the Japanese people or other suffering from the after effects of the Quake and Tsunami.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

tdw said:


> Good people,
> Any discussion re the rights and/or wrongs of whales or nuclear energy is really not appropriate to this thread. By all means start a couple of new ones and go for it but lets keep this one for messages re the plight of the Japanese people or other suffering from the after effects of the Quake and Tsunami.


Sorry, Fuzzy. But one of those effects appears to be a partial (at least) meltdown at one (at least) of their nuclear plants.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I agree this is not the place for the "nuclear discussion" start a different thread

TDW you were the one first to unleash this in the thread.



> TDW-The images out of Japan last night were simply horrifying to watch. One can only feel utter sadness for the people effected, that they now have at least one nuclear reactor possibly going feral is utterly apalling.


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## lickingcardboard (Oct 21, 2010)

you are right SlowbutSteady NOTHING(yeah yelling make the point better)is 100%, as long as the safeguards are the best you can make them then That is what should be done, If you going to go with he 100% argument please let me know when your going to apply this to your daily life, or please become the one to design the 100% Safe power plant that will have a 0% impact on the Environment,. i do not yet know of anyone that has a 100% safeguard on anything. Will you now stop driving your car, sailing your Boat walking to work, living.... and wait for the 100% safeguard on all of these things before you go on living? Nothing is 100% safe, but I am sure you will keep on living with you less then 100% Life. and debating the issue of clean safe Nuclear might go over better in another thread.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

I have no problem with anyone or everyone discussing nuclear plants and whether they are appropriate. I will even get into the debate. But I agree with TDW - move it to another thread and Off Topic. Right here in this thread, my heart is breaking for the Japanese people and this is the place to discuss that and the current events unfolding there. I'm scared to death that WWII may be pale compared to this (in Japanese mainland terms).


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

lickingcardboard said:


> you are right SlowbutSteady NOTHING(yeah yelling make the point better)is 100%, as long as the safeguards are the best you can make them then That is what should be done, If you going to go with he 100% argument please let me know when your going to apply this to your daily life, or please become the one to design the 100% Safe power plant that will have a 0% impact on the Environment,. i do not yet know of anyone that has a 100% safeguard on anything. Will you now stop driving your car, sailing your Boat walking to work, living.... and wait for the 100% safeguard on all of these things before you go on living? Nothing is 100% safe, but I am sure you will keep on living with you less then 100% Life. and debating the issue of clean safe Nuclear might go over better in another thread.


If the core of one of these reactors has a significant meltdown (which appears to have already happened) and its containment vessel fails (which may also have happened) the fall-out that will be (or perhaps are currently being) released will take BILLIONS OF YEARS (yes, I'm yelling; and, no, that's not an exaggeration) to decay. Please point us to anything else with such consequences.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

Cruisingdad said:


> I have no problem with anyone or everyone discussing nuclear plants and whether they are appropriate. I will even get into the debate. But I agree with TDW - move it to another thread and Off Topic. Right here in this thread, my heart is breaking for the Japanese people and this is the place to discuss that and the current events unfolding there. I'm scared to death that WWII may be pale compared to this (in Japanese mainland terms).


Yes, this is bad; horrific even. But, Japan had something on the order of half a million or more civilian deaths during WW2. The Tokyo firestorms alone killed about 100,000. As bad as this is, there's no way it's going to get that bad. In fact, there probably won't be nearly the number of deaths as were the result of the 1923 Tokyo quake (~100,000).

If any country can handle this sort of disaster, it's Japan. I have no doubt that their response will make our own government's response to recent disasters look even more wanting than it already does.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

chef2sail said:


> I agree this is not the place for the "nuclear discussion" start a different thread
> 
> TDW you were the one first to unleash this in the thread.


Chef , I think thats somewhat unfair. I mentioned only that the reactors were 'going feral'. I made no comment on the good or bad, the rights or wrongs, the wisdom or stupidity of Nuclear. That the reactors are 'going feral' is part of the tragedy and is applicable to this thread. A discussion on the pros and cons of Nuclear is not. (or whaling for that matter)


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

tdw said:


> Good people,
> Any discussion re the rights and/or wrongs of whales or nuclear energy is really not appropriate to this thread. By all means start a couple of new ones and go for it but lets keep this one for messages re the plight of the Japanese people or other suffering from the after effects of the Quake and Tsunami.


 +1

...


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