# First time crewing/racing this weekend



## ropeclimber (Aug 25, 2013)

Well, a friend of mine just found me a crew position this Sunday on a boat I've never sailed before with a skipper I've never met before. First time racing, first time on a Lightning. But everyone says it's one of the best ways to improve your skills so I'm jumping in. I'm excited and nervous.

Of course, I'm googling everything about racing right now but I'm a little overwhelmed. I don't want to be dead weight; I'd like to at least contribute something to the team. If you could prioritize the top three things I should know for Sunday so that I don't come across like a complete n00b, what would they be?

Thank you!


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

As a three-crew boat, you're not going to be 'rail meat' like you might be on a larger boat for the first time...

I'd be up front about your experience (or lack of it) and express your willingness to learn and to 'do as you're told'. Expect to be told where to sit/move to at various times -observe, remember and learn as you go. Don't ask TOO many questions on the water, save them for later as a debrief over a beer or two (bring some for later)

Agility will be helpful on these boats, and a basic level of fitness will help too.

Hopefully you haven't been set up with a 'screamer' and you'll have a good experience. Ideally you'll be invited back - but if you don't have a good time don't write off racing altogether. The people/person you hook up with can make all the difference.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

With all due respect, you ARE a n00b, and I'm sure the captain knows it. Embrace it. Yes, read all you can, learn as much as you can beforehand. But the first several times you're out, it's all going to go out of your mind. Don't stress it. We all face a learning curve, and we all make mistakes. I'm sure the captain isn't expecting you to be perfect on day 1. Ask lots of questions.

Edited to add: as Ron points out, it might be wise to hold some of the "lots" of questions until after the race!


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## joyinPNW (Jan 7, 2013)

Helps to have a basic vocabulary of sailing terms
Be dressed for the occasion
Bring a healthy sense of adventure
Have fun!

The rest will come in time--racing is the best way to learn how to sail!


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

Ditto all the above - great advice! Here are some other things: Be on time; don't bring too much extra gear so you might want to ask what's best; be prepared to be wet so bring dry cloths for afterwards; listen and respond quickly and calmly, but don't ask why until you get back to the dock unless you don't understand the instructions or there's a safety issue; and keep chatter to a minimum, it's distracting. If you can, pay attention to the race flags the race committee is raising and lowering; notice how the buoys are placed and how they're being rounded; help the skipper to spot other boats; and learn the basic racing rules before you go out -- being attentive to these things will help in your future races. Small boat racing is just a dance. The choreography has to be tight or things get unbalanced quickly. This takes time to learn, so don't over-analyze it too much your first time out. Just enjoy and hope you have a competent skipper who doesn't scream. They make or break the day.


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## aelkin (Feb 3, 2013)

You've got good advice to this point - but you asked for the top 3 things you should know...so here's my list (as a racing skipper).

- understand that 'ease', 'out', 'loose', 'deep' and a half dozen other words might all mean doing the same thing to a sail - just like 'trim' 'grind' 'in' 'tight' 'sheet'....so listen, and ask before the race how the skipper will communicate with you. Learn how to trim/grind FAST and properly.
- Ask him/her what his expectations are of you. What tasks will you be responsible for on the boat? Then do all of them to the best of your ability, and ask for feedback (when the skipper appears to have the time) on whether it's done to his liking.
- Don't, under any circumstances, panic. Watch for things that look abnormal to you, or that might be helpful to him/her, and communicate them in a quiet, calm voice.

Don't worry for a single minute about strategy, tactics, or even 'racing' just yet. Try hard, listen carefully, and have a good time. Laugh at your mistakes, and admit to them. You'll be invited back to any boat you want to be on in the first place.

Cheers!

Andy


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## ropeclimber (Aug 25, 2013)

Thank you all! this is helpful.

I just spoke to the skipper. He seems very nice and understands that I'm new to this. He did not strike me as a screamer, and I don't think my friend would have recommended me to him if she knew he was. But my skin is almost as thick as my skull, so that wouldn't bother me much if he was. 

He said I would be in middle position and to wear gloves. Can I get away with a pair of weight lifting gloves with the fingers cut out? or should I invest in a pair specific to sailing?

Thank you again!


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## RedHorizon (May 13, 2012)

As someone who has raced before with a variety of skippers, here is my two cents:

1) Arrive early and prepared. Ask now for the things you'll need to bring/have with you.

2) Hopefully the skipper will get out on the course early so you can practice a bit. Make sure you get your role defined early and know what's expected of you. Be upfront and honest about your skills and understanding.

3) Have fun! Racing, whether you win or lose is a fantastic skill builder and way to meet all sorts of people who can teach you just about anything you want to know.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Sailing specific gloves honestly often suck. I like rubberized fleece lined garden gloves, they are warm and give good dexterity. I use "Ninja Ice" ones which are about $8/pair on Amazon.

My other piece of advice is to ask general questions afterwords. There is a lot to learn, but during the heat of the race the skipper needs to concentrate. Observe the skipper and other crew, try to keep track of a few questions, then ask them as you are sailing back to the dock.

Ask the skipper to go out early and do some practice spin launches, tacks and jybes so you can learn your job and get to practice each manuever at least once. On a dinghy you need to know how you are getting from one side to the other during tacks and jybes.

It should be a lot of fun, I love racing on my boats and crewing for others. Every skipper and boat is a little different, so I do it their way (instead of trying to do it my way) when I race on someone else's boat.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

You can try the weight lifting gloves but most of the time they cut off too much of the finger. Go with the rubberized loves from home depot or lowes for less than $10 pr and just cut off a little of the thumb and index finger. 

Google PVC dipped gloves. If you like the sport, start a new thread with additional gear or ask others in the fleet what they use. The lightening is a weight sensitive boat and your bodyweight placement will be important. Just search for lightening sailboat racing images on google and you'll see what I mean. Sit where they tell you too, it's actually very important.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I owned a Lightning 19' rigged for racing for a few years. 
With three crew the responsibilities of each crew is a bit different.
Forward person is responsible for the jib sheets which are routed either inside the shrouds or outside (depending on point of sail) and launching the spinnaker.
The middle position usually has about 4 or 5 control lines to control (traveler, boom vang, center board etc.). The middle may also assist with the center board, main sheet and also spinnaker sheets. The middle position can also hike out with the best mechanical advantage so be prepared for this.
The after position has the tiller and main sheet. 

Watch out for the boom when tacking. It can be set quite low on a Lightning. It is also a fast, fun ride once you get the swing of it. 

Hope you have a great time.


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## ropeclimber (Aug 25, 2013)

zz4gta said:


> Go with the rubberized loves from home depot or lowes for less than $10 pr and just cut off a little of the thumb and index finger.


Grease Monkey Gorilla Grips!

I already have a pair. They're crap for gym work because they're water resistant but I suppose on a boat that would be a good thing. It would never have occurred to me to use them for sailing. Thanks for the idea.

Alex W- your Ninja Ice look similar. I will check them out too.



CalebD said:


> The middle position usually has about 4 or 5 control lines to control (traveler, boom vang, center board etc.). The middle may also assist with the center board, main sheet and also spinnaker sheets. The middle position can also hike out with the best mechanical advantage so be prepared for this.
> The after position has the tiller and main sheet.


This is exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks!

I'm getting excited just reading these responses. Each one has been so helpful!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Definitely bring a couple of sixes of good beer. That will cover a multitude of mistakes.

JUST HAVE FUN!


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

smackdaddy said:


> Definitely bring a couple of sixes of good beer. That will cover a multitude of mistakes.
> 
> JUST HAVE FUN!


Best to leave the beer on shore until after the racing because of the weight. Let the others know it's there, though! Get in shape with sit-ups now so you won't hurt so much on Monday. Lightnings can be a blast.


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## ropeclimber (Aug 25, 2013)

paulk said:


> Get in shape with sit-ups now so you won't hurt so much on Monday.


There are many things about Sunday I'm worried about. Abdominal strength and hiking is not one of them.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

ropeclimber said:


> There are many things about Sunday I'm worried about. Abdominal strength and hiking is not one of them.


Yeah.. when I mentioned agility and fitness earlier I didn't realize who you were exactly, ropeclimber! 

That's not going to be your issue, that's clear 

However if you're going to be in the middle of the boat it sounds like there's lots to do.. so be ready to pull and ease a possibly confusing array of lines.. a half to an hour's practice before the start would be golden.


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## ropeclimber (Aug 25, 2013)

Faster said:


> However if you're going to be in the middle of the boat it sounds like there's lots to do.. so be ready to pull and ease a possibly confusing array of lines.. a half to an hour's practice before the start would be golden.


Yes... this is what I'm worried about. There seem to be a lot more lines in a Lightning than in a Flying Scot. Aaaaand I've never sailed with a spinnaker before. So that'll be new.

But I found a Crew Preparation Checklist for Lightnings online so I'm studying up. At least I'll have the theoretical knowledge if not the practical kind.


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## Milkjug (Dec 19, 2013)

Others have said hold your questions - when you're readying to round a point, be 100% clear on what your role is. I.e., if the skipper says we're raising the jib and dropping the spinnaker, be absolutely clear on what you are doing in that step. Are you jybing, hardening up out of the turn, who is stuffing the spinnaker, communication is vital - be clear with what you're doing and have others be clear with what they're doing. There's a lot of time between the windward mark and turn, make sure you use it to your advantage.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Here is a diagram of how the control lines might be run on a Lightning.

Welcome to the International Lightning Class


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## ropeclimber (Aug 25, 2013)

CalebD said:


> Here is a diagram of how the control lines might be run on a Lightning.
> 
> Welcome to the International Lightning Class


Your link suddenly made this 3D video I found a whole lot more useful:

3D LIGHTNING movie

THANKS!

PS- Video is work-safe, but plays Dixieland the whole time, so you may want to turn the volume down. Unless you like Hot jazz, in which case, enjoy.


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## aelkin (Feb 3, 2013)

Ropeclimber;
I gotta tell ya - I'm impressed as hell. 
I've got a couple of newbs on my boat this year, and they're working hard getting ready - reading books, attending crew courses, but you are over-the-top!!

You're getting great help and advice here, too.

One thing I'd like to add, further to my additional comments (thanks to Milkjug - his/her comment made me think of it).

The most difficult/complicated/stressful parts of racing are the maneuvers and transitions. windward and leeward mark roundings most of all.

Some skippers do not clearly express what they are planning, and what they want you to do - just like Milkjug said. Don't be afraid to start that conversation yourself, if it doesn't seem to be happening naturally. Maybe not the first maneuver, but if by the second, you don't feel the communication is good enough, a simple question like 'Hey Skipper - how is this rounding going to go?' might get it going. If not, follow up questions like 'Port or Starboard gybe', 'are we going to try to go inside of that guy', or 'you want me to trim the sheet, and THEN switch sides, right?' are helpful.

You seem like a pretty squared away, outgoing, confident person - so I don't think this is too much to remember. If you're overwhelmed, just remember:
1. Breathe; 2. Talk; 3. Fun; 4. Buy Beer.

Cheers!
Andy


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

ropeclimber said:


> If you could prioritize the top three things I should know for Sunday so that I don't come across like a complete n00b, what would they be?
> 
> Thank you!


1. Understand the starting sequence for the race.
2. Know the basics of the racing rules, such as who has right of way.
3. Understand the position, role and responsibilities of each crew member.

While underway, don't talk unless spoken to. Remain calm. Stay out of the way if you do not know what to do. Watch what everyone else is doing. Watch what the other boats are doing.

During the starting sequence, try to figure out the favored end of the line, and watch how the boats position themselves.

Remember your basics: in the excitement of a race, new crew will make stupid basic mistakes, like wrapping a winch in the wrong direction, or failing to release a line or sheet. Don't be that person.


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## ropeclimber (Aug 25, 2013)

aelkin said:


> Ropeclimber; I gotta tell ya - I'm impressed as hell. I've got a couple of newbs on my boat this year, and they're working hard getting ready - reading books, attending crew courses, but you are over-the-top!!


Thanks! Sailnet is awesome for learning this stuff. I haven't gotten any work done for the last two days thanks to all the browsing I've done. I'm watching the angle of attack thread closely because it's a question I had as well. Good timing!

Paulk- I did some weighted sit-ups today just in case. 

JamesWilson29- I was feeling confident and then you came along. I don't know anything about starting sequences. Is this the whole jockeying to get to the start line but not before the race begins?


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## aelkin (Feb 3, 2013)

LOL...this is exactly why I said NOT to worry about this stuff.
I skipper a 35 footer, have been racing for 7 years, on 5 different boats, and I still struggle to figure out the favoured end, tactics etc. Racing rules are a lifetime of learning!

The best advice James gave was to make sure you don't wrap the winch backwards...we've all done that, and felt stupid afterwards.

No skipper on the planet is going to expect a first-time crew to watch for wind shifts, figure out a starting strategy, or even ask for an opinion on line set.

Stick with the basics, baby!!

Andy


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

Relax...have fun. People just love to rehash the races and argue about strategy! You could try to pay attention to who was where and when, so that you can bombard them with questions afterwards. Better yet, mount a GoPro on the stern pointing toward the bow ;-)


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## aelkin (Feb 3, 2013)

Hey James;
I re-read your post, and I owe you an apology!
I jumped to a bunch of assumptions about what you were talking about, but when I took a minute to think about it, you're right - sorry!!

Climber - When James is talking about the starting sequence, he's referring to a series of flags and sounds during the countdown to the start. (at 5 minutes, 1 minute, and at the start, for example)

It can be helpful for a skipper who's trying to manoeuvre his way around the pre-start to have someone watching that sequence so he can worry about not hitting people, and getting to the line on time....

Cheers!
Andy


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## Chas H (Sep 6, 2013)

aelkin said:


> Ropeclimber;
> 
> The most difficult/complicated/stressful parts of racing are the maneuvers and transitions. windward and leeward mark roundings most of all.
> 
> ...


The ride on a lightning is exhilarating!

I echo elkin's comments. Also on the way to the racecourse ask what your job will entail on each leg of the race. Ask the same question again before each mark if you need to. Things may be more relaxed between the marks (depending on the traffic) which may afford time for more detail in the explanation. Conversing with the other crew will allow the skipper to concentrate on his job if that is his desire.
-CH


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

When on a larger vessel the noob crew should always stand on deck so as to obstruct the helmsman's view when manoeuvring or docking.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

Racing begins before the actual start.


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## ropeclimber (Aug 25, 2013)

ScottUK said:


> Racing begins before the actual start.


Understood.

Thanks to JamesWilson29 & aelkin, I found the Racing Rules of Sailing and the starting sequence for the fleet so I am now aware of those flags and sounds.

I also found diagrams of the three possible courses and learned that all of the roundings are to port, except in one course which *may* use a gate in which case you can round to port or starboard.

Thanks again, everyone. I wouldn't have thought to look for half of this stuff, and now that I've found it, I feel a lot more confident.

I'll report back on Sunday and let you all know how it went!


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Glad you liked the ILCA website. Tons of info there on racing Lightnings.

A bit more advanced is this quiz on the racing rules which get a bit more complex.
Regelspiel Uli Finckh
It is the skippers job to know the rules, not yours.

Have a great time on Sunday. I'll be working on my boat instead of sailing ;-(.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Good luck!

Your approach shows you are an intelligent, conscientious person. If you were an irresponsible idiot, I wouldn't have advised you to do anything other than show up on time with a six pack of beer. Someone will be lucky to have you as a crew member. (You also appear to be light and strong, which will help the boat be faster!)


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

How did it go?


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## ropeclimber (Aug 25, 2013)

jimgo said:


> How did it go?


It's today. Getting ready to head out soon. Just re-read everyone's advice for a last minute refresher. Thanks again! I will report back tonight.


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## ropeclimber (Aug 25, 2013)

Oh my goodness, there is so much to tell, but where to begin? I don''t know if today was typical or not, but perhaps you can shed some light on that for me.

Here's what happened: The day started out beautiful: 80 degrees, sun, and winds 5-10 knots out of the south, with gusts up to 25 knots predicted later in the day. Water temp was 58 degrees. I met the skipper (let's call him Sam. Sam the Skipper) and his crewmate, Bob, who also owns a Lightning but crews for Sam because his boat isn't ready to race yet.

*Fourth crew member* 
We were one of only three Lightnings racing today, which I understand is unusual. Apparently there is a big regatta this weekend so many boats were out of town. Because of the smaller number, there were several extra crew trying to find boats to work. One of the other Lightning took on a fourth crew, so my skipper Sam offered to take on a fourth as well, let's call her Annie. But at the last minute, the other boat's fourth bowed out, so in the end, we were the only boat with four crew.

(As an aside, I will say this- I don't know if it was a good idea to take a fourth or not, but I personally was glad Annie was onboard. She called the countdown times before the start, called out weather, kept our skipper apprised of where the marks were, knew exactly where every other boat was on the course, knew how to fly the spinnaker, and was overall just brilliant. I learned more from just watching her than I did from anybody else on that boat.)

Annie and Bob flew the spinnaker during the mile run down to the race course, and we practiced a few jibes until I felt comfortable. After a bit, we all kind of fell into our more or less permanent positions: I was working the jib, she was working the main, and Bob was doing other stuff that the Skipper was telling him to do (like adjust the cunningham, outhaul, etc.)

Even though I had been told I would be middle position, it turns out I spent most of my time forward.

*First Race*
Finally the RC gave the signal and we began maneuvering. It was a terrible start for us. I'm not sure what happened (my eyes were glued on the jib telltales) but somehow there was some confusion about where the start gate was. Apparently the RC boat was not in the same orientation that they're usually in, which threw Sam and Annie off. So we ended up crossing the line late. Our first rounding wasn't that great, either. Something got jammed as we tried to raise the jib after flying the spinnaker. We all became so engrossed in diagnosing, the skipper sailed right past the pin. If we had been in a plane, it would've been a textbook example of heads-down flying- none of us looking out the window. D'oh

So the first race was pretty bad. We came in dead last. By a lot.

*Second Race*
Second race, I am happy to say, was a lot better. We chose not to fly the spinnaker as the wind was picking up and we obviously weren't a well oiled machine yet, so we just sailed wing on wing on the downwind and did just fine like that. We still came in last, but at least we were a lot closer to the second boat.

*Third Race - DNS and Man overboard!*
Prior to the start of the third race, things got really dicey. The wind was really picking up now, big gusts knocking us over quite a bit, and me being forward, I was completely soaked (thank God I listened to Sailnet and dressed for the weather.)

The start was pretty chaotic with lots of jostling and I think we were all a bit eager to try to get a better position for this final race. The other two boats did a good job of defending against us and the skipper was calling out commands fast and furious. It seemed like there was less and less time between the "prepare to..." and the actual turn but I just figured that was because we were becoming better and better at our jobs. Well, at one point Sam called out "prepare to jibe" and Annie and I went down under the boom, but Bob didn't. I heard a loud CRACK and looked up to see Bob flying backwards over the side! 

I dropped the jib sheet and lunged across the centerboard and tried to grab his leg in a bear hug as it cartwheeled up and over, but his momentum pulled his foot clear through my arms and I was left holding his sneaker! Somehow, he managed to grab the boom on his way over the edge and hung there as the boat kept sailing. I kept waiting for the boat to turn into the wind and stop, but somehow we kept sailing, dragging poor Bob through the water. I was keenly aware of my jib luffing and mainsail not, so I wasn't sure if the skipper intended to continue the race with a crew hanging off the boom but finally (FINALLY!) the boat slowed down and a motorboat pulled up alongside to fish Bob out of the water. He had blood coming from his face and looked in shock.

After he was taken away, we started our beat back to the marina. We never even crossed the start line.

*Hindsight* On our way back to the marina, we talked about what we could have done differently. Definitely we should have stopped the boat immediately. I also feel like we should have had this conversation before starting out, just so that everybody would''ve known exactly what to do. Of course, hindsight is twenty-twenty.

We caught up with Bob later on. He's fine, but by the looks of his eye, he will have a nice shiner tomorrow. He also lost his prescription glasses in the water. Oh, we also found out later that one of the other boats lost a crew in the water as well.

As for me, I am happy that I wasn't the one who went in.  I stayed (relatively) dry, learned a lot, and have a much better idea of what to expect from now on.

So&#8230;. was this a typical racing day? Is it common to take on a fourth crew member? Have a jammed jib sheet? Lose a crew member on a jibe? Or is every day an adventure?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Oh hell yeah!!










Sounds like a typical day of racing!

Honestly, it sounds like the skipper needs to keep a little better eye on things...and/or Bob needs to pay closer attention to the skipper. These guys have been sailing together - so there's little excuse for a BOBOB. That just shouldn't happen.

Sounds like you rocked the day though...and was able to learn from the crew and stay on the boat. I'd say you did just fine.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

Oh, yes, did we forget to tell you about the "safety talk" that every skipper is supposed to go through and his plan for responding to accidents before leaving the dock....? Oopsie. My guess is that 90% of them don't. Sorry things went hairy for you. It sounded like you got a good dose of a lot of things in one afternoon. Small boat racing can go sideways pretty quickly, especially with inexperienced crew. Keep crewing with different people and you'll get a good sense of what works and what doesn't.


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## Hudsonian (Apr 3, 2008)

You did not experience a typical day. Crew overboard and black eyes are rare; scrapes and bruises are not.. Four on a Lightning is not routine. Perhaps the skip chose to go with four because of the heavy air. 

You sound like an exceptional person. Your good cheer and positive attitude is important on a small boat. The skip should be grateful for your help and thank you.

As you progress, you'll contribute by applying the knowledge and skill you develop to adjust the shape of the jib to the wind and wave conditions. You will learn to observe what's going on around you and accurately report the information to the skip so that the information can be acted upon. if you continue as forecrew, you will learn to trim the pole lift to optimize the spinnaker shape and you will learn to gybe the pole.


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## ropeclimber (Aug 25, 2013)

smackdaddy said:


>


I had to do a search to understand this. LOL Yes, if Life were one of those video games my son plays so much, I definitely earned a few EXP points yesterday. On the other hand, perhaps everything seemed more exciting to me since this was my first time racing. Hopefully in a few months I'll have even more experience against which to judge it properly.



gamayun said:


> Oh, yes, did we forget to tell you about the "safety talk" that every skipper is supposed to go through and his plan for responding to accidents before leaving the dock....?


This is a huge one for me. When I was working in aviation, all the pilots I knew did this as a matter of course. Some of them had these elaborate "I will do this... You will do that..." call and answer routines they would run through with their crew before each flight. I'm surprised it's not as emphasized in the maritime industry.



Hudsonian said:


> You sound like an exceptional person. Your good cheer and positive attitude is important on a small boat. The skip should be grateful for your help and thank you.


Thank you! The Skipper asked me back, so I guess that's a good sign.



Hudsonian said:


> As you progress, you'll contribute by applying the knowledge and skill you develop to adjust the shape of the jib to the wind and wave conditions. You will learn to observe what's going on around you and accurately report the information to the skip so that the information can be acted upon. if you continue as forecrew, you will learn to trim the pole lift to optimize the spinnaker shape and you will learn to gybe the pole.


I do feel like I could take some of that stuff on next time, now that I've seen it done a few times. I'm looking forward to it!

SO, just to close the loop on this thread, here's how _I_ would respond to myself now that I've popped my racing cherry 

*1) Dress for the weather* - A few people mentioned this and I agree. This, more than anything, made the day a success for me. The water was chilly and the winds were gusty. I took a lot of water in the face. If I hadn't been wearing a waterproof jacket and quick-drying pants with a pair of comfy boat shoes, I think I would've been absolutely miserable. This includes bringing your own PFD so you don't have to worry about borrowing an ill-fitting one.

*2) A good pair of gloves*- Weight-lifting gloves are better than nothing, but as an earlier poster said, they leave too much bare finger exposed above the knuckle. I tried the PVC-coated gloves from Home Depot, but my particular pair were too thin for my comfort. Luckily, Annie (our last minute fourth addition) loaned me a pair of her sailing gloves and they were fantastic. But even with those gloves, I still managed to lose a little skin off my left index finger. So, a good pair of gloves and a willingness to get banged up is crucial.

*3) Pre-launch briefing*- I will insist on this next time. At the very least, I would ask "What procedure should we follow if a person goes overboard?" There are a lot of scenarios to consider- person goes completely in the water vs person is hanging off the edge, or hanging off the boom, or caught up in a line or something. Also, what should the victim do? Should they TRY to haul themselves back in, or just let go and wait for a committee boat?

And finally, I would add a 4th: Think about bringing a knife. On two occasions prior to launch, I needed a knife and didn't have one handy. Also, it occurred to me after kicking my foot free for the umpteenth time that there were so many damn lines in the boat, that it would be a fairly easy thing to get caught up in one or more of them if the boat capsized. I, personally, would feel better having a knife handy to cut myself (or a crewmate) free in the off chance that happened. I noticed nobody else was wearing them on their PFDs, but I will get one for the next time; I'm paranoid like that.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

After an initiation like that it's great to see the positive attitude you're hanging on to!

Well done... I think you'll have no problem securing crew positions in any fleet.


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## RedHorizon (May 13, 2012)

The first two races sound like a typical race with an unpracticed crew! Sounds like it was fun! The last race with someone overboard and hurt was not typical...at all. Bumps, scrapes, bruises...absolutely, but the situation with a head injury and overboard could have been life threatening. Sounds like you've already been looking at the situation for lessons learned...and you said "for the next time"...those are the two things that matter!! I'll also restate the need for a crew to practice together and get communication and movement down.

I've raced in many races...it never got less exciting for me, I hope it dosen't for you.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Your first racing experience sounds like a Three Stooges episode. The boat sounds unprepared and incompetent to the point of presenting a high level of risk to the crew. You might want to shop around for a safer, better program to race on.

In retrospect, the advice I gave you was probably way too advanced for the level of this racing program. Of your 3 pieces of advice, 2 concern how to dress (pretty basic for any kind of sailing) and 1 concerns the captain's prerogative. I would not advise stepping aboard a competent racing boat and telling the captain how to do his job by requiring a briefing when you are the only new crew.

On a competitive racing boat, the helmsman and crew already have established routines and know exactly what to do at each point in the race. Once the captain and crew have mastered basic boat handling techniques (which apparently this captain and crew have not), strategy and tactics become the primary focus. People get their heads out of the boat and start paying attention to positioning with respect to the other boats, the fleet and anticipated wind and current changes.

It would be more appropriate for you to find out how you fit in the established program. Often, novices are little more than rail meat -shifting their weight during tacks and balancing the boat out downwind.

Be careful about staying with this boat. Sailboat racing can be a dangerous sport. Several people have died on the Chesapeake Bay during racing, at least one due to a head injury from an unanticipated jibe resulting in a man overboard.


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## ropeclimber (Aug 25, 2013)

jameswilson29 said:


> Your post


All good points and excellent food for thought. Thanks jameswilson29!

After reading your comments, I realize "insist" was the wrong word to use re: a safety briefing. As a new crew, though, I would simply ask the skipper what he expected of me in the case of a man overboard so that I would be in sync with the rest of the crew. (Yesterday, I tried to pull our man back into the boat whereas the skipper expected him to just let go.)


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

ropeclimber said:


> (Yesterday, I tried to pull our man back into the boat whereas the skipper expected him to just let go.)


I don't think this skipper likes Bob. Either that or he's a horrible skipper.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

...knee pads. I'm constantly bruised, but having knee pads doesn't make you hesitant when you need to land on the deck quickly. I bought a retractable device that I hook my knife into and then the body of the knife is tucked inside a piece of tubing on the waist strap. Others use a lanyard and tuck all this in a pocket. Whatever you decide, I recommend trying to find your knife with your eyes closed and with either hand. 

As to your MOB situation, this is probably less significant when you have chase boats, etc., that can help retrieve crew, but as you move up to bigger boats or offshore stuff, this is really when an articulated plan and practicing that plan come in handy. Chances are you'll never implement it, but what if...? So baring that, it never hurts to ask what the skipper is thinking, which could be a 5 min conversation before leaving the dock. Getting a MOB back on board is the hardest part. We have low freeboard Cal 20s with ladders on the back and people still have a hard time with this. But trying to finish the race with someone hanging off the boom?!? Well, that's just bad form. And generally you're DSQ'd if you don't come back with the crew you started with.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

Race 1 - typically during the start sequence you don't need to have your eyed glued to the woolies. Most of the time you are holding and defending a position and then powering up for the run to the line so looking out for other boats would liukely be of better use. It is also typical to raise the headsail before dousing the kite not after.

Race 2 - J+M can get almost as complicated as using a spinnaker when gybing and/or using a leeward pole. When the wind is near the beam and not using a pole a foot can be placed on the sheet near the clew to hold the sail further out.

Race 3 - I have raced on quite a few different boats and do not recall a single instance of a MOB brief. During the start I don't recall a single instance where a 'watch your heads' was not called out as everyone is looking at different things for information or are ducking boats during that time.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

ScottUK said:


> Race 3 - I have raced on quite a few different boats and do not recall a single instance of a MOB brief. During the start I don't recall a single instance where a 'watch your heads' was not called out as everyone is looking at different things for information or are ducking boats during that time.


Yeah, this is how most boats operate. As I understand the history, though, this is one of the reasons why the Northern California Offshore Racing Council was created. Post-accident reviews from when racers have died indicated a need for consistency in safety and training. Not everyone likes this, and I'm not saying that's what's needed in these dinghy races, but ropeclimber asked a lot of thoughtful questions, posted follow up concerns, and had a potentially dangerous situation, so this gives him some food for thought. It's also probably the wave of the future to document MOB skills -- if nothing else but to CYA as a skipper. Anyhow, it doesn't hurt to ask the question in a way that can benefit the newbie, without being challenging or critical of the skipper.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

Coincidentally and kinda pertinent for this discussion, Latitude 38 just came out online and reported the following on SF Bay this past weekend....similar outcomes may be quite different offshore or without support vessels.

The weekend's sailing conditions were summer-like in their intensity — a welcome change for many of us who've become tired of medium- to light-air sailing. Among the many races taking place in the Olympic Circle off Berkeley, there were stark reminders of what can go right and what can go wrong in heavy air.

This year the Knarrs participated in San Francisco YC’s Resin Regatta — a welcome addition to the starting line. The six-fleet, 52-boat regatta had the Melges 24s, Etchells, Express 27s, Cal 20s, Open 5.70s and Knarrs sailing on a course just east of Southampton Shoal. Weekend winds built into the low 20s with gusts as high as 26 knots on Saturday — keeping crews busy during each of the five races.

The blustery conditions led to a series of incidents that remind us just how important our safety equipment is. "The first water rescue was a young woman on a Melges 24 who rolled off as the boat jibed for the finish," says PRO Vicki Sodaro." She was wearing a PFD, put her hand up for the support boat to find her, stayed calm and was ferried back to her Melges to sail in the next race." In another instance, a skipper fell off his Cal 20 during a jibe after a finish and his inflatable didn't inflate. This, coupled with his crew being unable to retrieve him, led race officials to rescue him and take him to Richmond YC to warm-up. Race volunteers also assisted in sailing his boat back to the harbor. 

In another situation, a young woman was retrieved by her crewmates aboard the Express 27 Abigail Norton after slipping off the deck during a blustery downwind leg in Saturday's third race. Fortunately, she held onto the lifeline the entire time and merely got very wet in the process.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

> a need for consistency in safety and training


I am all for safety and training though I point out instances of MOB are hardly ever consistent due to differing circumstances. Doing the drills does make one think of alternate scenarios and possible appropriate responses.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

ScottUK said:


> I am all for safety and training though I point out instances of MOB are hardly ever consistent due to differing circumstances. Doing the drills does make one think of alternate scenarios and possible appropriate responses.


Completely agree. I can't remember what I was listening to this past weekend about a situation in which the rescuers train all the time, but in that real-life case they said it would have failed as a drill scenario because nothing worked as planned...


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