# Good Weekend Sailboat?



## BoatKid5 (Aug 28, 2009)

I am looking at buying a good weekend sailboat. I have had previous experience sailing on sunfishes and hope to get more formal sailing lessons. Both my parents know how to sail. I am looking at a good sailboat that would be good for day trips and weekend sailing trips. I would want it to have a galley and be able to sleep 4 with a little room for gear(not always sleeping 4) I have always wanted a sailboat and am now saving up for one. 

some sailboats that i am looking at are
-catalina 22
-Cal T/4
-MacGregor 25
-O'day 22

any input appreciated! 
THANKS


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Having spent a LOT of weekends on a J24 with 4 adults and wont anymore its kind of TIGHT in 22'


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Some on your list are trailerables, others not... you need to decide which you want to get the real list. If you're able to go with keelboats then the choices expand considerably..

Also by your list you're into a relatively low budget operation (certainly less than $10K??) - and of course that's another limiting factor.

In the keel boat sector, for starters I'd add

Ranger 26
C&C25
Cal 25
Coronado 25
Catalina 25


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

I would stay away from the MacGregor. Poorly built. Others on the list are far superior. IMHO


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## BoatKid5 (Aug 28, 2009)

thanks for all the replys. I really like the Pearson 26 and the Coronado 23 & 25

is a 25ft. boat to much to handle as your first sailboat? should i try to stay to like 22 and 23 foot boats instead?


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## T26Rich (Feb 7, 2009)

You might also consider:
Tanzer 22
Santana 22
Rhodes 22
Kells 23
Hunter 25
Etap 21 or 26


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

BoatKid5 said:


> thanks for all the replys. I really like the Pearson 26 and the Coronado 23 & 25
> 
> is a 25ft. boat to much to handle as your first sailboat? should i try to stay to like 22 and 23 foot boats instead?


You'll do fine with a 25/26 footer... lately it seems to me I'm running into lots of people buying 35' and up as "starters"... too much disposable income, I suppose.

Starting a little bit up the LOA scale could avoid an early case of twofootitis - if you start at 22 and really take to it, then before you know it you'll be looking for a bit more space, a little more speed, and be shopping again. For most people it's a budget limitation more than a size issue.

Don't forget to factor in storage or moorage (as the case may be) into your financial and logistical planning. Some areas are moorage-poor, in our area it's so tight it's difficult to sell a boat that doesn't have transferrable moorage. Other costs to be ready to bear include insurance, surveys, haulouts etc. A wise man on this board generally recommends keeping 20% of your budget aside for after-purchase items...


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## Hesper (May 4, 2006)

I'm someone who doesn't believe in "starter" anything. I want the right item the first time - wife, house, boat - and I've accomplished that. When I went for my first (and last) boat one criterion was that it be the largest that I felt comfortable handling alone. For me, that was 28 feet. Stretched my budget a little bit, but I've had it 9 seasons now and it's still right for me. That saves me a lot of money and hassle in the long run (saved even more getting the right wife first time out!).


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

Boat Kid,

Don't let the high numbers discourage you. If you are careful, you can find a boat in your range with annual costs that aren't too high (Certain high cost areas will increase the costs significantly). On a limited budget (it's ok, everyone starts somewhere), don't be tempted to go for the bigger boat, but instead get one that you can sail right away without having to rebuild it, even if it's smaller. 

When you have a fixed amount of money, the bigger the boat at preset price, the more likely it is to have problems that will require spending lots of money to bring it up to sailable status. No question about it, the bigger boat is generally has more room, more aminities, and can make cruising more comfortable. But bigger requires more expense in everyway, and buying a cheap boat needing lot's of work isn't likely to save money in the long run, because it's cheap because it doesn't stack up as well against one the same size that's been maintained well....it's pay me now or pay me later (with repairs and lots of time/money...and hours of work...trying to bring it up to the standards of that somewhat more expensive boat of the same size that you can use to go sailing now.

If you buy a trailerable boat (21-24 ft. for example):

You have a lower initial cost ($5000)
If you buy one that is ready to sail now without rebuilding, you don't have to spend much in the way of maintenance/upgrades.
Keep it simple, you don't need all the fancy gadgets...a simple hand held GPS vs. on with chartplotter. Get the basic things, avoid fancy, even if they are nicer.
You will save on slip fees because you can keep it at home.
You won't have to haul it out every year or two to clean/paint the bottom.
Systems are simple and you can do most of the repairs yourself. You can, to a great degree, control the amount of repairs if you take care of the boat...sailing to the extreeme in extreeme conditions tends to break things, and boat repairs/parts are horribly expensive (~3X that of similar repair on a car).
Your insurance costs will be lower (maybe $250/yr.)
Your property taxes will be lower (maybe $200/yr.)
Your maintence costs shouldn't be more than $250-500 if you don't have major replacements.
This boat is not going to be as shiney as a new one, but it'll sail just as well.
Now if you want restored and shiney as new, you are going to start pumping lots of money and work into it. Pretty comes at a price in any size.

Now go to 25-27 ft.
It's a lot more boat, more room, sails more solid, etc., but more expensive.

Initial purchase price $5,000
Repairs/upgrades to bring it up to go sailing conditions (still not shiney) (maybe $3000 to $5000)
Slip fees since you have to keep it in the water: (maybe $2,000 to $4000) depending where you are.
Haulout and repainting the bottom every two years (maybe $1,000 if yard does it)
Insurance (maybe $300-400/yr)
Property Taxes (maybe $300-$400/yr.)
Routine upkeep beyond restoring (maybe $500 - 750)
And you still have a boat with lots of dings, but it sails just like the fancy new one.

The trailer boat is a bit of a pain raising and lowering the mast and launching each time you use it, but this is what you give up to save on costs. A boat in the slip and a little bigger is nice and adds to the pleasure, but it comes at a cost.

Hope this helps. Go for it. I think you and your parents will enjoy it. Both size boats sail and get you out on the water.


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## BoatKid5 (Aug 28, 2009)

Does a 1977 Catalina 22 have a galley? and a head?
what about a pearson 23. 

can those boats handed trips in the Chesapeake bay for like 3 or 4 nights?


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## mmazour (May 23, 2000)

*S2 7.3*

Look at the S2 7.3 I had one with a saildrive. It was excellent starter boat fixed keel, 4' draft, rock solid, fairly quick, stable and fun. Sleeping 4 might be a tad tight unless your talking about 2 adults and 2 children (or short people)


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## BoatKid5 (Aug 28, 2009)

i am sort of leaning to the catalina 22 because it would cost less to own a slip. If we do end up buying a sailboat i will likely be paying for the slip


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## fullkeel7 (Apr 16, 2008)

The only C22 I've been on had a very small slide out galley w/maybe 5 gal. of water and I think the owner said it was an option. I'm not sure I'd even consider it a 'galley'.

I'd also recommend the 25 footer if you're leaning toward a Catalina. You will be surprised at the difference in cabin volume and it will make those planned 3 -4 day trips on the Chesapeake much more comfortable. Another plus is the enclosed head which is always popular with the ladies. 

BTW, if I had my druthers, I'd go with the keel version of the C25. I've read that it sails better than the swing keel and it gives a bit more headroom. Happy hunting. 

Add: Oh yeah, the 3 foot addition shouldn't be all that much more, in 'boat bucks' that is, for the slip charges. $25/35 mo.?


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## Sarguy (Mar 2, 2009)

Hesper said:


> I'm someone who doesn't believe in "starter" anything. I want the right item the first time - wife, house, boat - and I've accomplished that. When I went for my first (and last) boat one criterion was that it be the largest that I felt comfortable handling alone. For me, that was 28 feet. Stretched my budget a little bit, but I've had it 9 seasons now and it's still right for me. That saves me a lot of money and hassle in the long run (saved even more getting the right wife first time out!).


I've had my starter wife for 34 years now, and her trade in value is a lot less than she is worth to me now.    My next (first) keel boat will be my last boat, and the choice will be made by what boats are available, storage availability, and a little bit by budget. I'm comfortable handling 36 - 44 footers, but they are somewhat out of my price range.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

I know that Catalina 22 quite well. My father owned 3 Catalinas (22, 27, 30) and I worked for two dealers in the South Jersey area in the late 70's. I think that Catalina in general is a fine boat for its intended purpose (overnighting and coastal sailing). You won't go wrong owning one.

I do not think that you will be happy trying to squeeze 4 people inside the 22 for anything more than an hour. You can not come close to standing and the "galley" is a joke. It's a great day sailor or overnighter for a couple of adults on a cool night; it gets REAL stuffy REAL fast in warm weather. You would do much better to get a Catalina 25 or 27 or something similar. Go older if the price is a problem; the great thing about Catalinas is that there are lots of them and the prices are appropriately low.

As to difficulty handling a first boat; it's like anything else. Practice, ask questions, don't be afraid to mess up. EVERYONE on Sailnet has messed up (see the Bonehead Moves thread ). if you haven't messed up more than once, you haven't been on the water long.

My recommendation is to go with the 25, take some lessons on the boat, read, ask questions, don't get too uptight when you mess up (you will), seriously analyze when you mess up, and have fun. This boating stuff isn't magic though boat yards, riggers, sailmakers, engine mechanics, and assorted dock rats will lead you to believe so.

Good luck.


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## voice3 (Aug 28, 2008)

BoatKid5 said:


> I am looking at buying a good weekend sailboat. I have had previous experience sailing on sunfishes and hope to get more formal sailing lessons. Both my parents know how to sail. I am looking at a good sailboat that would be good for day trips and weekend sailing trips. I would want it to have a galley and be able to sleep 4 with a little room for gear(not always sleeping 4) I have always wanted a sailboat and am now saving up for one.
> 
> some sailboats that i am looking at are
> -catalina 22
> ...


Last year I was in the same position myself. I ended up buying an Eastward Ho 31'. It's a bit bigger than the boats you're looking at, however because it's not a popular boat you can pick them up for a good price. It's my first sailboat, but I have no problem single handing it. It's has a very comfortable motion, and although it's a traditional full keel design and a fairly heavy boat, I have no problem getting it up to hull speed in 10kt winds. It maybe a bit more suitable for sleeping four than the boats you're currently considering. I've only been sailing it for one season, but so far I'm very happy with it.


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## timebandit (Sep 18, 2002)

might wanna look here--


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## BrokeNotBroken (Feb 8, 2009)

We are looking for a smaller boat for 2 adults and 2 kids. Something easy to sail and not too expensive. I wanted the boat to be trailerable so that I didn't have to pay dock fees and so that I could take it home to work on it. With two small boys, spending my weekend at the dock fixing stuff is not a good option. Anyway, I narrowed it down to the Hunter 260 and the MacGregor 26s. I found this review from someone that owned both. I thought it was a balanced review and offered good insight.

Hunter 260 vs 1991 Macregor 26s - SailboatOwners.com

Best of luck,
-david


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## MarkCK (Jan 4, 2009)

I also think you ought to go with a catalina 25 over the other boats mentioned. Catalina builds a good boat for the money. The Catalina 22 is probably too short if you are actually going to spend time in the cabin. Hunter and Magregor both build a decent boat for their intended purpose but I have always liked Catalina's better.


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## BoatKid5 (Aug 28, 2009)

Thanks for all the replies. Lucky there is one near me that is for sale and is in good condition

it has the following sails: Mainsail, Jib, and 150 Genoa.
-is that enough to go and sail or will i have to buy more sails for it?

I am still trying to convince my parents that we should really do this. I hope we can do it. Any important things to know before buying a boat or to think about before buying a boat


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## voice3 (Aug 28, 2008)

BoatKid5 said:


> Thanks for all the replies. Lucky there is one near me that is for sale and is in good condition
> 
> it has the following sails: Mainsail, Jib, and 150 Genoa.
> -is that enough to go and sail or will i have to buy more sails for it?
> ...


Make sure you get a marine survey on any boat before you buy!


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

A main, jib, 150 Genoa is all you'll need assuming sails are in reasonably good condition. Later, after you gain experience, you can fine tune sail inventory.

Which boat did you settle on?


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## CaptainMorgan21 (Jun 19, 2009)

*weekend sailboat*

All the boats listed are good selections. If you want a great sailing boat that you can afford, try a San Juan 21. They are easy to sail and will out preform just about any boat their size. The San Juan has a completely retractable keel so it sits low on a trailer, which makes it easy to trailer and launch. You can go to this site:www.sanjuansailing.blogspot.com[/rl...21.net]Jim Hubbard's San Juan 21 Sailing Page. I love my little San Juan, it is fast and economical. It will sail circles around a Catalina 22 and is a lot easier to trailer and launch. My good friend who taught me to sail has a catalina 22, but he leaves it at home and goes with me on my San Juan 21. Good luck on whatever you choose.

Jerry


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## BoatKid5 (Aug 28, 2009)

pretty sure that i like the Catalina 25-----what is a marine survey and where can i get more information on them.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

BoatKid5 said:


> pretty sure that i like the Catalina 25-----what is a marine survey and where can i get more information on them.


It's almost always a wise move to get a boat properly 'surveyed' prior to purchase - and in many cases, esp if financing is involved the bank and/or the insurance carrier will require one. It is a thorough inspection that will detail any problems with the boat, stress the good things and provide an estimated market value.. any initial offer should be made subject to a satisfactory survey and sea trial.

It's much like a home inspection, but of course more specialized. Marine surveyors can be found in most boating areas, there are societies and organizations that they belong to, so it depends just where you are. Word of mouth is another good way of getting a good one. Generally you do not want to use a surveyor recommended by the seller or his/her broker. You need a clear unbiased independent report.

The several hundred dollars spent is a good investment even if you choose to pass on that boat - better a few hundred less in your wallet than ending up with a bad boat or one that will immediately cost you thousands in repairs.

The simpler the boat, generally the less costly the survey. On larger boats a separate rigging inspection, and a mechanical survey is also good practice.


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## captainbr (Aug 31, 2009)

Another boat you might want to consider is the C & C 26. There were not a lot produced. We owned two which we used for teaching our beginner sailing classes in a five-day live-aboard format. The boat has the same beam as the 30', 10' and has five berths over 6'. Inboard engine and a proper head. Huge amount of storage under the port pilot berth.

Your offer to purchase should normally contain the following "subject to" clauses:
Satisfactory survey covering the hull and rig, 
mechanical inspection covering the engine and sea-trial where you go for a sail and check all systems and see if you like how she handles.

Good sailing with whatever you decide.


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## BoatKid5 (Aug 28, 2009)

looked at the c&c 26 looks like a very nice boat also. However the seem to be more expensive and i dont have the biggest budget. Also none are available near me...


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## jim77 (Sep 25, 2002)

Catalina 25 would be an excellent choice. For Chesapeake Bay sailing I would recommend a shoal draft model. A sail inventory of a jib and mainsail is certainly all you need to get started. Stay away friom the McGregors. You can find a list of surveyors for your area on the BoatU.S. website BoatUS.com: BoatUS Home Page


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Kid: the Catalina 25 sounds like a great boat for you. I think it is simply the best value 25 foot coastal cruiser/weekender out there. There are usually a bunch available at any one time (tends to keep prices down!), so don't get fixated on a particular boat as another will always come along. 

There were so many of these boats built that there are various incarnations to choose from. The primary "options" are pop-top vs. fixed coach roof; tall rig vs. std; dinette vs. fold down table; fin keel vs. swing keel. My 2 cents (adjusted for inflation) on the most important choices in order of importance: pop-top, fixed keel, dinette model with tall rig. Why? If you intend to spend any time at all in the cabin, you want the pop top. It gives you standing headroom in the cabin. A nice extra is if your boat comes with the canvass side panels that "enclose" the open pop top. The fixed keel boat sails better than the swing keel, is lower maintenance and for my money, is safer (I don't want all of the boat's ballast held on by one pin). Of course, if you intend to trailer the boat, you need the swing keel; in fact, it becomes the driving factor in picking the boat. I like the dinette better than the drop table; its a personal thing. The drop table gives you more room below when it is swung up to the bulkhead, but if you intend to eat below, I like the dinette. And if you have little kids, the dinette is a perfect place for them to play. The need for the tall rig is really dependent on where you sail. Light winds? You want the tall rig. Lots of bridges? Maybe the standard is more convenient. 

If you are comparing two different choices, don't forget to take overall condition into account. The condition of the boat (and the outboard) is just as important as any of the factors listed above. In any case, the C25 is a terrific boat, and you will be very happy. Good luck and let us know what you bought.


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## BoatKid5 (Aug 28, 2009)

what is the difference from the porta-pottie and a marine toilets with MSD's and holding tanks???


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

BoatKid5 said:


> what is the difference from the porta-pottie and a marine toilets with MSD's and holding tanks???


A porta-potty is a portable toilet. It contains flush water and a sewage tank in one unit that comes off your boat (usually in two pieces). You have to put fresh flush water in the integral tank, and some chemical (cheap stuff) deoderant/biodegrader) in the holding tank. You use it, flush it, and at the end of the season or when the tank is full, you remove the tank from your boat and dump it in a toilet. The best porta-pottys are tall enough and big enough to sit on comfortably. They aren't all that expensive (about $150 for a good one), and generally need to be replaced every 5-8 years as the seals between the tanks degrade.

An MSD (marine sanitation device) is a "real" toilet. They tend to be much more complicated than a household unit as they need to draw in flush water from outside and then flush to a holding tank on board, all with one handle. The holding tank needs to be periodically emptied. This is as unpleasant as it sounds. The pump out is done usually via a deck fitting and hose. Many marinas have a service to do this for a fee. In some "no discharge areas", some states provide free or low cost pump out services.

If you are going to mostly daysail and overnight only occasionally, a porta-potty is the way to go. Dumping treated pee into a toilet is no big deal (note that you can't dump into a septic tank; the chemical will kill the good bacteria that breakdown all that nasty stuff). If however you intend to really cruise and be aboard for days at a time, you probably do need an MSD. This means the added headaches of maintaining the internal plumbing, but does free you from the need to constantly find a toilet where you can dump the porta-potty. If you want some good, gross-out fun, check out the various threads here concerning head maintenance. I would bet that it is the number two (no pun intended) most discussed topic on this site, right after "what boat should I buy?".


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## nereussailor (Nov 3, 2007)

My thoughts are a little different on boat size. I went the route that you are looking at taking and wish that I wouldn't have. My boats with cabins started with A west Wight Potter P-19. It was a fun little boat to sail, but only big enough for two comfortably. Then moved up to a Mac 26S. It was a semi comfortable boat for three, maybe four. but I'm a big guy, and the porta-potty was a pain to use and empty. The rear aft berth was great, like a king size bed. the port berth was a little short for me, but ok for someone under about 5'10". There was no headroom, and ducking and kneeling to cook or do anything wasn't fun. It sailed poorly, and you needed to reef in 15 kt winds or all you would do is round up. 
I then bought a fixer upper Hunter 30. It has great headroom and I'm 6'1'' It will hold four comfortably and has a head with a shower and MSD. The Galley is small but works. Ice box, 2 burner alcohol stove, sink, and some storage. I added a grill on the stern rail to keep the heat out of the galley and use it for almost all of the cooking. 
It sails great, isn't trailerable, but well worth the comfort. I should have bought the H30 first, but hindsight is 20/20. You can find them from the late 70's or early 80's for around $8k-15k depending on how much work you want to do to it.

Dave


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## BoatKid5 (Aug 28, 2009)

*This Sucks!*

talked to my parents..... dont think we have enough time to do it so i told them that we dont have to do so much of the things i want to do on weekends. so then they said they dont want me getting a job until at least awhile through the first quarter in school so they know if i could handle a job....

I am so bummed....


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