# Best 30' PHRF Boats



## Smithsm

I am limited to a 30' boat and plan to do club PHRF racing. Can anyone suggest good 30' boats that sail well to their PHRF in a variety of conditions?


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## petmac

Smithsm said:


> I am limited to a 30' boat and plan to do club PHRF racing. Can anyone suggest good 30' boats that sail well to their PHRF in a variety of conditions?


How about a C&C 30 Mark II ?


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## Jeff_H

The best PHRF boats are boats that sail really well in a wide range of conditions and which have well established ratings because a lot of them are raced. While you can occasionally get a gift rating for a boat that is not well known or which is mostly a cruiser, boats like these take a whole lot of skill to make competative across the wide range of windspeeds that are likely during any season of racing. In many ways a faster boat at the high and low end of the wind range for its length, although penalized by its rating, can make big gains by being able to sail a longer course in order to gain a strategic advantage. This is especially true in light air or in surfing conditions.

The second characteristic to look for, beyond the speed across a wide range of winds and sea states is a boat that does well in predominant winds for your area. i would try to find out whether there are particular models that dominate locally in the size range that you are considering. 

If I had to make a fgew suggestions (in no particular order) I would suggest one of the following J-29 (masthead version), J-30, Laser 28, S2 9.1, Kirby 30 (ideally one modified to a masthead rig), Capri 30, Santana Wavelength 30, or Olsen 911.

I would not recommend a boat like the C&C 30. While they can be raced PHRF old doges like that take a whole lot of talent and expense to optimize and skill to sail one well enough to do well in PHRF with one. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## Smithsm

why do people recomend the J29 in masthead vs. fractional ?


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## t22cayuga

Smithsm said:


> why do people recomend the J29 in masthead vs. fractional ?


Fractional J/29's and J/30's (also fractional) are pretty slow downwind in light air because of the small spinnaker. There may be other reasons too.

As to your first question, what kind of boats are sailed in PHRF in your area? Getting something that is similar in both design and rating band to the rest of your fleet will make things a lot more fun. For example, Tartan 30's rate about the same as J/24's (~170) but they're so dissimilar that the racing isn't very close. In our area we have a couple Laser 28's, J/30's, J/29's, and a Pearson Flyer that make for pretty close racing (PHRF ~129-150). There are also 30' boats that are much faster (e.g. Henderson 30, PHRF ~45) but they usually end up racing against much bigger fast boats and tend to get waterlined. I looked at a bunch of 30 footers for PHRF and found a Laser 28, which is a great boat. The Pearson Flyer in our fleet does really, really well. These can be usually be found cheap, at least on the East Coast.


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## tri413

I used to race on a Santana 30 that did quite well in Chesapeak PHRF. Great all around boat and reasonalbly priced.


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## Smithsm

excuse the ignorance - but what does "waterlined" mean?


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## Jeff_H

You need to be cvery areful when you recommend a Santana 30 as a PHRF boat. Schock/Santana built a number of 30 footers. Several of them are good to great PHRF boats (like the Shockwave 30 and Santana 30/30) but some make really poor choices to race PHRF (like the seventies era Santana 30) or for any other purpose for that matter.

Jeff


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## t22cayuga

Smithsm said:


> excuse the ignorance - but what does "waterlined" mean?


Bigger boats with longer waterlines go faster, especially in non-planing reaching conditions.


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## DrB

*Go Up 3' and get a Pearson 10M*

Great Club Racer/PHRF boat.

DrB


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## blt2ski

Not that this is everyones cup of tea, but IF you do have a fractional rig, some folks will set a mast head spin for down wind, and take the penalty, and still do well. There is a Hotfoot 32 and Farr 1020 in my local, ie puget sound are that have done this, then have as they call cheater chutes, ie fractional set for windy days, where they are still able to set a chute, those of use with MH rigs are down to a 155 and main for down wind, and we get smoked! 

Some unknown but a few exist, Jeanneau Arcadia's as I have are in the low 160 range, and do well when prepped correctly too. There are not many around vs the ones mentioned. Catalina 30's get race frequently too, but not the fastest. Some of the older beneteau First 28 and 30's should do well among others too.

But as mentioned, figure out whom is around you, and shoot for a boat within that rating. For me locally, 190-220 is the most common boat with in my club for beer can racing, so boats like the Cal T2, Cat30, my arcadia on the fast end, Cal 29/30, T-Birds...all make for fun races, as we are all pretty close. If you have a bunch of Laser 28's, J30's around, then that would be the better 30'ish foot boats to look at and for. Do not over rate or under rate yourself in speed, or you may not do as well, or have as much fun.

marty


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## Gary3675

S2 9.1 or Pearson Flyer....
Best thing to do is check race results.....see what boats win


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## paulk

How about a Pearson Flyer? Quick in light air, not too expensive to purchase, and simple to operate.


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## TSOJOURNER

CS30 - quick AND comfy


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## Jeff_H

Sailormann said:


> CS30 - quick AND comfy


But not much of a PHRF boat...


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## GreatWhite

Putting a masthead spinnaker on a boat that is designed for a fractional setup might require a rigging update, possibly requiring an updated back-stay setup.

Regarding the PHRF boat, I would strongly recommend getting something that works well with the fleet locally. Do you want a cruisy boat or a pure racer?. A friend bought a C&C 27 a does well against a San Juan 28. I have an SJ 30 and enjoy racing the C&C and SJ28. These boats all have a good cruising setup... I know Jeff doesn't particularily like IOR styles boats but I LOVE mine and have fun racing it even though we have a lot of variable winds. You would think a rig with larger head sails like those seen with the IOR style boats would require a lot of sail changes ...but I don't find it too bad. I don't run the spinnaker in high winds either and use a down haul on the pole. 

A Capri 30 is a fast boat but would NOT be very good for cruising. 

Again, I would put a lot of weighting on what you have locally. Every Wednesday we have a little fleet that is competitive and FUN. We have a few boats that race close together which is awesome.


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## Sanduskysailor

There have been some great and some not so great replies. As a chief handicapper for one of the larger PHRF areas for 14 years I have a pretty good idea which boats are successful. To recommend a good 30 footer one needs to know the typical fleet make up you will be racing in and the prevailing wind/wave conditions.

Typically good PHRF boats- tricked out Pearson 30, S2 9.1, J-29, Olson 911
A Catalina 30 can be a weapon with an older (pre 1980) version std rig, deep keel with a small diesel, tiller, beefed up standing rigging, and a 170 Headsail
As mentioned before a lot depends where you sail and where the boats falls into the class split. Also you budget for sails and equipment is a consideration. For a 30 footer a a good dacron main works along with a quality aramid laminate #1 and #3. 2 spinnakers are a must, flat AP and a runner.

If you are race against boats rated less than 100, check out a Pinnacle 29 or Andrews 30 along with other late 80s MORC Maxi boats.


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## jarcher

Get a Scampi 30! I have no idea if its a "good" PHRF boat but I'm having fun with mine


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## Jeff_H

Scampi 30, nice boat but not that great of a PHRF boat....at least on the US east coast.

Jeff


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## mikehoyt

An interesting article can be found here Sailing World - 16 PHRF Racers to Fit a Budget

Mike


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## jarcher

Jeff_H said:


> Scampi 30, nice boat but not that great of a PHRF boat....at least on the US east coast.


Why not on the east coast specifically?


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## gimmellsdad

I hope not to hijack this thread too much and if I do, my apologies in advance.

I'm looking for an accurate PHRF (No Spinnaker) rating for an Herreshoff H28 Ketch sailing on Lake Ontario.

She's had a few modifications from the original design (Deck Stepped instead of Keel but no change to the mast height, She has a raised doghouse and an enlarged cockpit) I'm told that modifications from the original design will change the rating.

We're not looking to race her competitively, just maybe take her out and see how she does. As I put it "She's pretty but not that fast"

Thanks,
Bobby
Seahorse


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## mikehoyt

*H28 ketch*

Send me a message via sailnet and I can give you contact info for a friend that has an H28 in Nova Scotia

Mike


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## Jeff_H

The only PHRF rating that I could find for a H-28 is in New England and it is 264, in the slower than slow category for a 28 footer. A wooden H-28 built to the original design wasn't all that slow and probably could sail to that rating pretty easily, but the glass ones typically were slower across the board. 

Jeff


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## mikehoyt

The one I know is Ardea - a wooden version. It races in Northumberland Strait Yachting Association at 282 and is owned by Mike Jenkins.

It is a very pretty boat.

Mike


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## GeorgeB

A Herreshoff 28 rates a 255 here in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com







<ST1San Francisco</st1:City>. A bit lower than the East Coast, but the rating is based on our somewhat higher wind speed average which lowers the rating for the lower aspect rigs a little bit. To put things into perspective, a Catalina 22 will rate anywhere between 260 and 274 here (depending upon configuration). The Herreshoff is beautiful (sailed on a friend's for years) but it took nothing less than a gale to get her moving. Do you have a wooden boat association out there? We have an organization called the "Master Mariners" and they hold several wooden boat regattas each year. Racing your own kind is a lot more fulfilling than perennially finishing DFL when racing the modern Tupperware boats.
<O</O<O
Now for boat porn (where is smackdaddy?). I nominate the Antrim 27. It is one of those "fast is fun" boats from <ST1Northern California</ST1. NORCAL PHRF rates them 78 and they are highly competitive. They even race to <st1:State w:st="on"><ST1Hawaii </ST1</st1:State>(came close to buying E.T. last year). Might not be too many on the East Coast which would make them a ratings sleeper. This photo is from last weekend's race. Winds were in the low-mid twenties blowing with the current direction making for fast conditions. I'd imagine these boys are scooting along in the low teens. (love that planning design!). The ol' Cal 40 warhorse I was on topped out at 9.5 kts that day.









<O</O


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## lporcano

seeyahttp://35knots.com


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## hutch5151

You might want to look at a J-33. There are a number for sale at a reasonable price. They make a great racer. A new set of racing sails and running rigging and they are competetive.


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## roline

I raced MORA on a Cal 2-30 and we won the 1978 season against other 30 to 33 ft'rs. Location was just outside Bonita Point light house, to Drakes bay and down to Half Moon Bay. Our main competition was a Newport 30 "Harry" and a Morgan 33. I chose a Cal 9.2 over the CAl 2-30 due to lighter air and smoother water conditions. The 9.2 has a wider beam but the 2-30 has more usable space in the transom area and better engine access.


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## aferlazzo

t22cayuga said:


> As to your first question, what kind of boats are sailed in PHRF in your area? Getting something that is similar in both design and rating band to the rest of your fleet will make things a lot more fun. *For example, Tartan 30's rate about the same as J/24's (~170) but they're so dissimilar that the racing isn't very close.* In our area we have a couple Laser 28's, J/30's, J/29's, and a Pearson Flyer that make for pretty close racing (PHRF ~129-150). There are also 30' boats that are much faster (e.g. Henderson 30, PHRF ~45) but they usually end up racing against much bigger fast boats and tend to get waterlined. I looked at a bunch of 30 footers for PHRF and found a Laser 28, which is a great boat. The Pearson Flyer in our fleet does really, really well. These can be usually be found cheap, at least on the East Coast.


Hi, could you expand on this comment please? I know both the J24 and the T30, with a lot of experience racing my J24. I'm pretty much done with racing and I am now looking for a good 30 footer (plus or minus a few feet) that I can coastal cruise singlehanded (from Maine to the Chesapeake, mostly), with room for an occasional guest or three. But the boat has to sail well... racing spoiled me in that regard.

So I'm looking at the Tartan, Pearson and Catalina 30's. I can get a fix up Catalina 30 very cheap, but it has a shoal keel (fin) and I suspect it will not sail well especially upwind.

I like the Tartans and Pearsons a lot.

How do people feel about these three 30's for my purposes?


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## puddinlegs

Olson 911s or se. Schumaker design, like a small version of the express 34 or 37. At 30', much less to run than either of the latter...


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## pikesbayone

Consider the Olson-built Olson 911 or the Ericson-built Ericson Olson 911se. The se is heavier and slower but has better keel and rudder design. PHRF should give you enough credit for the heavier boat and smaller rig on the se to stay competitive. If you can find one and want a true racer, try the Capo 30. It was the original Carl Schumacher design from which the two 911's evolved. The Capo is stripped out below, has rod rigging, dyncell cored hull, bigger sail plan.


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## Scotty C-M

I would look into buying a boat that is common in your club. There will be lots of opportunities for one design racing, there is a built in resource for knowledge about your new boat and in the PHRF races, you will have boats to go one-on-one against. 

For example, where I live there are a bunch of Santa Cruz 27s. Yeah, I live in Santa Cruz, so it sort of makes sense. At any rate, they are a bunch of great guys and gals. They race hard and party hardy together. What a great group to join! If you join that group, your sailing options would be way cool!! Are there any similar groups in your area?


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## paulk

Gee guys, the OP put it out there in 2009. Think he has a boat yet? Has he been back looking at this thread lately? Please start a new thread instead of dredging up stuff that seems to have been resolved five years ago.


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## pikesbayone

Try to find an an Ericson Olson 911se. They were based on a Schumacher MORC design and are good all around boats. 

The Olson 30 (not to be confused with the Ericson Olson boat) is a lightweight race winner, but sparse accommodations and must be sailed very well to win because of its rating. Not a good first boat for racing.


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## simpsoned

Take a look at which boats are popular in your club...that being said, Newport 30 II and III tall rig (Gary Mull deisgned) are quite popular in PHRF circles, particularly where you have heavier winds, like SF Bay and San Diego...I have on on Lake Pend Oreille in NOrth Idaho and it performs just fine...the problem on my boat is the skipper, not the boat...
Ed Simpson
N30 II Das Dawg Haus


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## SJ34

San Diego is on the opposite end of the wind spectrum from SFO.
BTW, an old friend owns a N33 out of MDR named Dog House.


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## SHNOOL

Dredge alert... The OP posted this 5 years ago.

As much as it pains me... Jeff's advice back then was spot on, and still is valid today.

What Jeff misses is there are people who want to race to better their sailing skills... Then there are people who think they can take an old 4ktsb, throw on $10,000 in sails, and sail better than the cruiser rating they have, to beat out the "Master Sailors" with their fully decked out J boats, by winning from behind.

Jeff, rightfully suggests that "local knowledge" will generally point to boats that are best in your own particular venue. examples? If your area is predominately light winds, and flat seas, a Capri 30 will likely beat out the Laser 28, as the Capri 30 is a better flat sea and light air boat. As it pipes up and the chop comes on, the boat stops dead upwind, where the Laser would plow through better. Also a J29 Masthead outboard, dead downwind, with 15-20knots breeze will surf, and delightfully and comfortably exceed it's hull speed, which is a blast if you have a W/L course and you are up against J80s who have to sail hot angles to make the lower mark, even though they too will surf, and even plane.

But again, I think the OP found a boat and/or moved on.


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