# Oops!!!



## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

This is Canoe Cove Marina's travel lift yesterday. Not sure what exactly happened yet, but it did have a boat in the slings at the time. Apparently no one was hurt.


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## justflie (Apr 10, 2012)

Ouch. Maybe it tried to pick up something just a little too heavy.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

justflie said:


> Ouch. Maybe it tried to pick up something just a little too heavy.


I don't know what it was trying to lift, but my wife and I have spent many an hour sitting in the cafe next door watching this operator run this crane, he gets pretty cocky with it sometimes.


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

That should buff right out..


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Looks like he drove off the tracks. Not hard to do if you don't have someone helping you.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

zz4gta said:


> Looks like he drove off the tracks. Not hard to do if you don't have someone helping you.


That's what I think he did too. That, or the crane itself folded up.
This guy just goes a little bit too fast for my likeing sometimes. When he does water a boat he kind of gives it a little swing in the slings and shoots the boat out of the end of the piers slip. They are very busy down at Canoe Cove right now so he would have been in a hurry.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Sucks for him, for the marina, and all the folks who need their boats lifted. Safety is rule #1 and gremlins love people who are in a hurry.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

I've been an operating engineer for 33 years, safety and patience is priority #1.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Oh dear, a friend has his boat out for work there at the moment, he must have been due back in about now, hopefully that wasn't his boat in the slings at the time, although knowing his luck at the moment, probably was.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

Think of all the free "on the hard" storage he will get. Haha


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

True, it's probably safer out of the water too, less rocks to hit. (If you read this Jens,  )


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

I've always wondered why travel lifts don't have more such mishaps. Even if everyone is trying to be careful and attentive, it only takes a momentary distraction ......


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## Jd1 (Aug 16, 2011)

PaulinVictoria said:


> True, it's probably safer out of the water too, less rocks to hit. (If you read this Jens,  )


Yup, it's a lot safer where it is 
The story as of this morning is that they are not sure what happened but one wheel of the lift mounted the guard at the edge and drove over it into the drink (a large drop!). Apparently they have had occasional issues with steering. Basically at this time they do not know if it was operator failure or mechanical failure. They had a large power boat (50 ft?) in the slings and were attempting to splash it. Apparently it was already in the water (so it didn't fall) and they were trying to give it a push out. It is now at a nearby marina after having received substantial damage.
It is unknown at this time if the lift can be salvaged - lots of broken bits and twisting. The boat yard is up the creek without a lift (or paddle) and may have to bring in a mobile crane to launch boats that are currently in the yard. It is too early for any decisions. My boat wasn't supposed to be splashed until sometime next week. I am not sure if I will be trapped beyond the time needed for the repairs


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

SlowButSteady said:


> I've always wondered why travel lifts don't have more such mishaps. Even if everyone is trying to be careful and attentive, it only takes a momentary distraction ......


There is a pre-stressed piling manufacturer where I live that has several of them and use them to move hundreds of huge concrete pilings a day. They have had several fatal accidents, mainly from trying to do things too fast.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

We just got back from Canoe Cove and the hoist looks pretty bent up. Even if they are able to use it again it will need a serious going over and some obvious heavy repairs. The main cross beam is twisted and bent. 
You can see the tire marks on the guard rail where it went over the edge.
Too bad for the marina, I really like the guys down at Canoe Cove. Really easy to deal with.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

I worked in a yard for a short time and have spent a LOT of time in them. The only really safe way to handle a straddle carrier is with 3 people - one driving and two spotting.

I've seen people running them alone and it's just ASKING for trouble. If they didn't have side guides *at least* as high as the sidewall of the tires they were just waiting for this one - especially if they have a cowboy driver.

Those things are dangerous heavy equipment - nothing to get casual with. It's very lucky no-one was killed.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

One of the yards at Marina Del Rey has a travel lift with a remote control. It allows the operator to get a much better look at things as the TL moves around, AND it should keep the operator much safer.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

when I was much younger, the local yard had a lift, the son of the owner used to run it. To this day I do not know how he managed -not- to splash the lift


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## Jd1 (Aug 16, 2011)

SlowButSteady said:


> One of the yards at Marina Del Rey has a travel lift with a remote control. It allows the operator to get a much better look at things as the TL moves around, AND it should keep the operator much safer.


Canoe Cove and Westbay Marine both use travel lifts with remote control. The operator can go wherever he wants to get the best viewing position.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

Jd1 said:


> Canoe Cove and Westbay Marine both use travel lifts with remote control. The operator can go wherever he wants to get the best viewing position.


Was the TL in the pic remotely controlled?


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

SlowButSteady said:


> Was the TL in the pic remotely controlled?


Yes it is. er was


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

Dog Ship said:


> Yes it is. er was


Well, nothing is fool-proof.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Everytime you make something fool-proof, a new breed of fools comes along and pushes the envelope


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## Clearlyme (May 8, 2013)

Just wanted to shed some light on what ACTUALLY happened and clarify ALL of your wrong assumptions. 

All proper steps and procedures had been followed by the operator at the time of the accident. Nobody was rushing, cutting corners or doing anything dangerous or out of the ordinary. Safety has and always is number 1. There was mechanical failure beyond the operators control causing the machine to veer off its proper path during a routine launch. Nobody was hurt. The 50 + ft powerboat being launched was already floating at the time of the accident. It was easily moved free of the lifting area and taken to a neighbouring marina to be lifted for assessment, where only minor cosmetic damage was found. The lift spent the night in that position and was lifted by two large cranes today. There is no twist in its frame. It is designed with an articulating coupling/bushing to minimize damage in case of such an event. It will be thoroughly examined by a rep from its producer and several other companies that do routine evaluations and inspections. I feel the comment about the operator being a hot dog is unfair and unjustified. Probably stated by someone that has no experience or clue about machinery operation. But everybody has an opinion right? Furthermore, accidents happen. Thousands of accident free lifts occur annually at Canoe Cove. I'm sure that the pleasant experiences far outweigh the bad ones. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Hope it answers all your questions.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Clearlyme said:


> ....There was mechanical failure beyond the operators control causing the machine to veer off its proper path.....


What failure occurred and why was the operator not able to stop the lift before it got too far off.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

Clearlyme said:


> I feel the comment about the operator being a hot dog is unfair and unjustified. Probably stated by someone that has no experience or clue about machinery operation. .


This comment was made based on my knowledge as an operating engineer with over 60,000 hours/33 years of heavy equipment operation experience. 
I have also witnessed this crane being operated by one person most if not all the time.
And yah, if the crane malfuctioned, why didn't the operator stop, Oh right he was busy and going too fast.
Most, if not all equipment accidents are caused by the operator not paying attention. That is a simple fact. Very, very few accidents are caused by the equipment failing, it does happen but it is extremely unusual.
After the crane was recovered it was sitting on fairly level ground and appeared to be bent. Even Brent from Blackline agreed that it looked bent. If you have since taken all of the required measurement to determine that it is not bent then sorry for "that" miss information.
Oh by the way. It is designed with that coupler so it can travel over uneven ground without lifting a wheel.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Clearlyme said:


> Just wanted to shed some light on what ACTUALLY happened and clarify ALL of your wrong assumptions.
> 
> All proper steps and procedures had been followed by the operator at the time of the accident. Nobody was rushing, cutting corners or doing anything dangerous or out of the ordinary. Safety has and always is number 1. There was mechanical failure beyond the operators control causing the machine to veer off its proper path during a routine launch. Nobody was hurt. The 50 + ft powerboat being launched was already floating at the time of the accident. It was easily moved free of the lifting area and taken to a neighbouring marina to be lifted for assessment, where only minor cosmetic damage was found. The lift spent the night in that position and was lifted by two large cranes today. There is no twist in its frame. It is designed with an articulating coupling/bushing to minimize damage in case of such an event. It will be thoroughly examined by a rep from its producer and several other companies that do routine evaluations and inspections. I feel the comment about the operator being a hot dog is unfair and unjustified. Probably stated by someone that has no experience or clue about machinery operation. But everybody has an opinion right? Furthermore, accidents happen. Thousands of accident free lifts occur annually at Canoe Cove. I'm sure that the pleasant experiences far outweigh the bad ones. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Hope it answers all your questions.


Good to know. I assume from your wording that you are connected with Canoe Cove in some way?

Glad to hear the lift is not as badly damaged as it appears in the pic. This would be the worst possible time of year for the yard to have the hoist down for an extended period.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I have never seen the Canoe Cove travel lift operated in anything but a safe cautious manner. Last year they hauled a boat I worked on after it was on the hard - a Grand Banks 58. Canoe cove said it was their heaviest lift up to that time. Their tarvel lift has a 50 metric ton load limit. The Grand Banks was almost at max load and if the tanks had been full it would have been too heavy. It is always used with a remote as far as I know. I heard that the remote malfunctioned and one wheel did a 90 degree turn and over the track onto the wood walkway beside the track, which it fell through.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

mitiempo said:


> ....I heard that the remote malfunctioned and one wheel did a 90 degree turn and over the track onto the wood walkway beside the track, which it fell through.


Having witnessed a few thousand lifts over a lifetime, I'm having a hard time visualizing this. First, how does only one wheel allow for this? If the other side of the lift didn't turn, they would have been fighting each other. Also, I usually see lifts move so slowly that a Stop button should have done the trick before it got off the track.

I'm not condemning the marina, I've never heard of them. But, the story just sounds off, if the operator wasn't able to notice a wheel turn 90 degs in time to stop everything.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

mitiempo said:


> I have never seen the Canoe Cove travel lift operated in anything but a safe cautious manner.


For the most part yah, it is operated in a safe manner. But I saw what I saw. Both my wife and I have watched, what I assume is the same operator, pendulum swing power boats out the end of the finger piers many times.
The operator will lower the boat into the water until it floats, then he will lift it slightly and run the lift along the finger piers with the boat suspended in the slings. He then abrutly stops the lift allowing the boat to swing forward at the same time he will drop the slings so the boats gear will clear the slings and the boat floats out the end of the finger piers.
Now if anything went wrong while doing this, ie; the operator's timing was off or the machine didn't respond as predicted, the boats gear could hook a sling and pull the crane over. 30-40 tons of boat doing 1-2 knots is a lot of energy.
I'm not saying that this is what happened but that's unsafe.


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## 34crealock (Dec 30, 2012)

I remember an accident caused when the travel lift went off the end of the pier and the wheels with the brakes were in the lead so there was no way to stop the carnage.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

34crealock said:


> I remember an accident caused when the travel lift went off the end of the pier and the wheels with the brakes were in the lead so there was no way to stop the carnage.


At least a story like that would make more sense, if they were saying they couldn't stop it. The 90 deg wheel turn is hard to understand.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

I don't buy the 90 degree argument either. 
There is a rubber mark on the guard rail about 6-8 feet long and then the wheel went over the edge. 
So what, the wheel turned 90 degrees and then was dragged down the side of the rail and then fell in the water.
Doesn't make sense. 
What was dragging the crane with it's wheel turned 90 degrees for 6-8 feet? 
Was a sling hooked on a boats gear?
It looks like the tires sidewall was rubbing the rail and then it mounted it and fell over the other side.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

time for clearlyme to threaten a lawsuit and get this thread pulled!!!


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

What kind of remote control does it use? Is it wired or wireless? Either way, any time you are remote controlling something like that you are relying on maintaining a connection to the machine, and if you lose that connection, how can you stop it? Presumably they would have some fail-safes to prevent it going out of control, but things still go wrong.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

First off, nobody will be getting sued. At least nobody here on this website.
As far as I know it is still legal to voice ones' opinion and ask questions.
This lift was radio controlled and so are many other pieces of heavy equipment.
I have run self propelled rock crushers, hogs and soil screening plants, all radio controlled and if I ever had a problem with a radio, usually it would either work or not.
If I were to have a radio that was not working properly it would simply not be used because it would be far too dangerous. 
All radio controlled heavy equipment I have run have manual override controls and numerous panic stop buttons placed around the machine in various locations and so did this lift. If the machine were to loose contact with the radio the machine would either continue to do what it was last told to do or it would simply shut down, depends on the vintage. It would not start to do wierd stuff all by itself because of a lost radio signal.
If there have been issues with this machine in the past the operator can refuse to run until it has been properly fixed. 
If the owner has said to run it anyway well thats a whole different story.
My biggest problem with all of this is the area in which this happened is an area that the boat owners are required to be during launch. This is not an employee only area. If they were running a faulty machine in a public area that's a concern.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Dog Ship said:


> ...Both my wife and I have watched, what I assume is the same operator, pendulum swing power boats out the end of the finger piers many times.
> The operator will lower the boat into the water until it floats, then he will lift it slightly and run the lift along the finger piers with the boat suspended in the slings. He then abrutly stops the lift allowing the boat to swing forward at the same time he will drop the slings so the boats gear will clear the slings and the boat floats out the end of the finger piers.
> Now if anything went wrong while doing this, ie; the operator's timing was off or the machine didn't respond as predicted, the boats gear could hook a sling and pull the crane over. 30-40 tons of boat doing 1-2 knots is a lot of energy.
> I'm not saying that this is what happened but that's unsafe.


I am puzzled by this pendulum swing maneuver. It sounds like it's asking for trouble. Is this a common procedure at other boat yards around the country/world? I've never seen it before, and don't understand why a boat can't be allowed to leave under its own power, or be towed by a tender if needed? Why slingshot it out of there?

At my boat club they just lower the slings and have you power out. If you have a deep keel, rudder, or prop, they will detach one end of the slings and let them fall to the bottom before you motor out. All this happens while wind and current are potentially moving your boat, so there are helpers who hold lines to keep the boat centered if needed.

So maybe Clearlyme can explain this maneuver and the reason why their operator(s) do it.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

I've never seen it done in 40 years of hanging around and working in boatyards.

In fact I've never even heard of it until now.

Definitely qualifies as "Cowboy".


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

I've been around boat yards my whole life and no, I have never seen anyone else do this pendulum manouver either. That's why we were so surpized when we saw the guy do it.
I don't know if that's what he was doing when this happened but the lift is bent up pretty bad. They are disassembling it for repair.
It is sitting toe in about 18" and at least three of the bolting flanges have been pulled and distorted out of shape. One of the flanges even popped a bolt off. 
It landed on it's engine and stuffed the entire engine compartment and it's contents up into the frame.
In the mean time they do have a stationary crane set up, but the Travellift will be down foe a while.


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## Ferretchaser (Jan 14, 2011)

I think its one of them new fancy quick launch lifts.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

Brings a whole new meaning to "No cash, No splash".


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## Jgbrown (Mar 26, 2012)

Not sure if what happened has been posted accurately:

My understanding is it was a combination of issues, the main one being an issue with the remote control system. 

Unfortunately, while one of the benefits of the remote control is allowing the operator to operate the machine without standing on it, one of the downsides is that the control is no longer directly manual, and computer errors can have serious outcomes. 

In this case, the lift was rolled out and the boat lowered.
While the operator was doing his final checks, the machine independently rotated one of its wheels to the wrong direction, on the opposite side of the lift from the operator after he'd checked that side.
When the operator moved the travel lift forward to push the boat out, the wheel that was facing perpendicular to the desired direction rode up over the edge and down went the lift.

It's not so much a pendulum type move(swinging the boat around) as using the forward sling to give the boat a gentle nudge out of the bay. It's SOP here as well, the boat is totally floating, the forward sling is just touching the hull is used to move it in the right direction. I had no idea the lifts here did it either until the operator explained it to me.

It seems like it didn't really matter what they did, if they'd reversed the machine towards land, or rolled forward to push the boat out, one wheel being 90 degrees out would have sent it over the edge either way.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

If the boat was already floating then why did they not pull it away by hand?
If they had pulled the boat away from the lift by hand the operator would more than likely had noticed that the wheel was not sitting correct and would have been able to take the appropriate actions and stopped the machine long before it fell in the water.
If he was not swinging the boat out with the lift this would never have happened.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

Jgbrown said:


> It seems like it didn't really matter what they did, if they'd reversed the machine towards land, or rolled forward to push the boat out, one wheel being 90 degrees out would have sent it over the edge either way.


While that may be true. If they had pulled the boat out manually, they hopefully would have noticed the one wheel turned once the slings were free


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

One thing that should be noted here is how unusual this sort of accident is. I've never seen or heard of a lift going in the drink in this area before and there are lots of them in operation.

A few years ago I had to get a basic forklift ticket for work. I figured "what a waste of time - what could be easier with a little common sense".

WRONG!

I couldn't believe how restricted your vision is when you have a load in front of you - it's a lot more difficult than it looks.

A strad hoist is a couple of orders of magnitude more difficult. A 40' yacht blocks a whole lot more than a couple of pallets of paper does. A boat is moving around too - swinging in every direction if you are just a hair too quick with your movements.

I'm surprised these incidents don't happen more frequently.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

SloopJonB said:


> I couldn't believe how restricted your vision is when you have a load in front of you - it's a lot more difficult than it looks.
> 
> A strad hoist is a couple of orders of magnitude more difficult. A 40' yacht blocks a whole lot more than a couple of pallets of paper does. A boat is moving around too - swinging in every direction if you are just a hair too quick with your movements.
> 
> I'm surprised these incidents don't happen more frequently.


Hence the wireless remote.


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## MarioG (Sep 6, 2009)

I talked to someone that was directly involved after the fact, as was told it was the operators fault. The operator was tring to use one of the slings to move the boat.
The lift was badly damaged but was fixed well enough to move under its own power.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

MarioG said:


> I talked to someone that was directly involved after the fact, as was told it was the operators fault...


Pretty much what everyone here was saying from the observations that we had available to us.


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## tjvanginkel (Sep 26, 2006)

We also have spoken with many people involved in the incident as our boat was being worked on at the time, one of the masts in the background of the photo on page 1 is ours, and every one of them has said it was a problem with a solenoid not the operator.
Whatever the reason it is a terrible blow to all the businesses that rely on that travel lift.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

Over my 30 odd year career as an operating engineer I have been involved with a few heavy equipment incedent reports and the first question that gets asked is always, "What was the operator doing with the machine at the time of the incident".
If the operator was useing the machine in an unintended fashion, then the operator has already made the decision to operate the machine beyond it's designed parameters and it is the operator who is at fault.
The decision to operate the machine in a unintended fashion was made before the machine malfuctioned and therefore it is the operator who is at fault, not the machine.
Blameing a machine for your poor judgement is no excuse.
Let alone the repair costs of the travelift I am going to guess the lost revenue due to his incedent will be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
It's a very sad time for Canoe Cove and I would like to encourage people to still use there services as much as possible during this time as they are really a great bunch of guys to deal with.


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

I love that sailnet now has ads you cannot close in the middle of the page obscuring posts that I may or may not want to read .


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## KeelOver (May 17, 2013)

There is a brief statement about the incident on the Blackline Marine website. Blackline is one of the companies that operates out of Canoe Cove. blacklinemarine.com is their website.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

kjango said:


> I love that sailnet now has ads you cannot close in the middle of the page obscuring posts that I may or may not want to read .


Popup blocker required!


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Latest I have heard, from Brent Jacoby at Blackline, is that the new 75 ton travel lift will be operational by August 31.

Meantime another travel lift collapsed - with a boat (tug actually) in the slings. This was at Shelter Island yesterday. I was emailed the pic below and I assume it is Shelter Island B.C. I can't find any other information about this incident yet.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

mitiempo said:


> ....Meantime another travel lift collapsed - with a boat (tug actually) in the slings. This was at Shelter Island yesterday. I was emailed the pic below and I assume it is Shelter Island B.C. I can't find any other information about this incident yet.


Yes, Shelter Island.. I was out at Thunderbird Marina last week and got splashed yesterday.. the lift operator mentioned it just has he was picking up our boat... In this case it looks like an overweight lift..


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## Jgbrown (Mar 26, 2012)

mad_machine said:


> While that may be true. If they had pulled the boat out manually, they hopefully would have noticed the one wheel turned once the slings were free


 Larger boats are more often nudged with the slings I think, as it is not always simple to move them by hand, at least without scratching them. 
Generally the guys hooking the boat and moving it out manually are not checking the lift wheels.

When pulling a boat out with boat hooks, they leave running the lift for the lift operator who remains up on land. So if the wheels were visible from their level(often not the case), and they checked them and commented to the lift operator while pulling the boat out, but before the operator moved the lift again then yes it is possible it may have been avoided. Hindsight is always 20/20 of course in terms of where the issue started.

More likely based on what I've seen of lifts, the only difference would have been to the boat, unless it was in the path of where the lift fell of course.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Faster said:


> Yes, Shelter Island.. I was out at Thunderbird Marina last week and got splashed yesterday.. the lift operator mentioned it just has he was picking up our boat... In this case it looks like an overweight lift..


That Shelter Island hoist was a monster - over 100 tons I think - it was an 8 wheeler.

Strange year for local yards.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

160 tons actually - their other lift is 75 tons I believe. 

I wonder what this year will do to insurance rates for yards?


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## KeelOver (May 17, 2013)

Dog Ship said:


> If the operator was useing the machine in an unintended fashion, then the operator has already made the decision to operate the machine beyond it's designed parameters and it is the operator who is at fault.
> The decision to operate the machine in a unintended fashion was made before the machine malfuctioned and therefore it is the operator who is at fault, not the machine.
> Blameing a machine for your poor judgement is no excuse.


I love the "Dog Ship" lynch mob. BURN THE OPERATOR!

I do like your leap from "If the operator was using the machine in an unintended fashion" to "The decision to operate the machine in an unintended fashion". Using a true statement followed by an untrue or unproven one is a good way to make it sound believeable.

I read this whole thread and I don't see anywhere where the operator is said to have used the machine for anything other than hauling, launching and moving boats. I am not trained in the use of Travel Lifts and have not found any documentation saying that giving boats a nudge out of the travel lift hole with the lift is a use for which Travel Lifts weren't designed. Perhaps that is the case, but before we string up the "cowboy" operator with the rope that Dog Ship is giving us we should first find out whether or not he was using the lift in an unintended fashion.

Either way lets look at facts, and not rely on my opinion, or that of Dog Ship, when I admittedly, and he clearly, doesn't have a clue.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

mitiempo said:


> Latest I have heard, from Brent Jacoby at Blackline, is that the new 75 ton travel lift will be operational by August 31.
> 
> Meantime another travel lift collapsed - with a boat (tug actually) in the slings. This was at Shelter Island yesterday. I was emailed the pic below and I assume it is Shelter Island B.C. I can't find any other information about this incident yet.


oh that looks painful


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