# Stern Radar Poles



## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

OK guys..I need your help again, because you guys know all these things, please.

I need help in locating GOOD radar post manufacturers in the US (or elsewhere). I will be in the US in January and can aquire one there to bring home. I am looking for more options, as right now my boat's builder is also quoting me one, in CF, as originally planned. (either way, it will be him installing it, and our electrical engineer at the marina conecting it).

The dome is a Raymarine, and my idea would be to have a hinged one, or other similar system that would allow me to remove it.

But..I assume with a hinged one, it will need those bars or legs, at 60deg, to reinforce support, which means more holes on my boat... 

The other option is another type of post, not hinged, but without the need for extra supports.

When my boat was built, stiffners for the radar pole were installed at several locations at the stern, so she is ready to reveive it. I can attach it to the vertical stern panel..or on the small horizontal step I have at the stern.

I am open to ideas, but generally my needs are:

1st option
Carbon Fiber or alluminium (or any other lightweight solution)
Hinged for removal
Removable
no extra supports
tall and simple
gimballed support for the dome

2nd option
Stainless or Alluminium
not hinged
tall and simple
gimballed support for the dome

I thank you already for you input on this...please.

Thanks

Alex


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## GeorgeDuBose (Jan 28, 2007)

*radar post*

Dave Johnson at www(dot)newjsi(dot)com built a dual purpose radar/wind generator post for me in quick time and for a reasonable price. I wanted heavy walled stainless, but they build in aluminum as well.

djohnson(at)newjsi.com

get a quote from him.

George DuBose
S/V Skylark


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## capn_dave (Feb 17, 2000)

*Try Garhauer*

These guys are great. They are located in Washington state. 
Here is a link to the radar mount Garhauer Marine Hardware -8097956

Fair Winds Alex

Dave


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I second Capt Dave with the Garhauer mount. I am installing one this year abd they are very customer service oriented plus the product is excellent. Will allow me to place all my antennae, (gps and vhf in one area and also has a detachable arm which can be used as a motor hoist for the dingy.

I bought their davits last year and everyone in my sailing group has decided that they will go with htme from now on if they ever replace theirs.

Dave


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

If you can afford it, go with the carbon fiber. It will probably be the lightest of the solutions. However, it would probably be the most difficult to make hinged or removable IMHO, and would probably be best as a fixed mount. 

Garhauer is a good choice if you're going with stainless steel. 

I wouldn't go with aluminum for a few reasons. First, the pole would have to be much larger than a stainless steel one of the same strength, wiping out much of the weight savings due to the material.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

G- I've got two words that will solve ALL of your problems....MIZZEN MAST. Adding a mizzen would provide a perfect attachment point for your new radar as well as do a nice job of sprucing up your boat and making it look more like a real sailboat.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Giu,

If it's not unaffordable, I think your sleek boat deserves a nice carbon fiber unit. As you know, besides the weight and strength, one of the beauties of carbon is it can be sculpted almost anyway you need it to be -- whereas aluminum and stainless can only bend so much. Somehow, I see the metal poles looking a bit clunky on _Giulietta_.

Or, you could get a nice huge ARCH like Cruising Dad's!! Think of the barbecuing possibilities!


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Mzzen Mast!!


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## KindOfBlue (Nov 22, 2005)

What about a backstay mount?  I have a stainless pole and a backstay mount is on the upgrade list.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

What's wrong with mounting it on that over-engineered mast of yours? (g) It'll work better and, I dare say, it'll look better too!


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

some solutions are starting to show up sent by some friends here by PM..

Please keep them coming, ok?

right now I have decided it has to be:

1)at least 14 feet long
2) Carbon or alluminium ( I was directed to a company that makes wound fiber epoxy tubes) sorry no steel..
3) Gimballed radome
4) extra arm for GPS
5) Swivel base mounted on horizontal step
6) Bracktes attached to push pit

please send more links


Thanks


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## Paul_L (Sep 16, 2004)

Check the PYI Seaview poles. Their fittings are very flexible and they do offer CF.

Language Selection | Seaview Global
PYI Inc. Max-Prop PSS Shaft Seal Seaview Radar Mounts R&D

Paul L


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Paul_L said:


> Check the PYI Seaview poles. Their fittings are very flexible and they do offer CF.
> 
> Language Selection | Seaview Global
> PYI Inc. Max-Prop PSS Shaft Seal Seaview Radar Mounts R&D
> ...


Thanks Paul

I am waiting on a quote from them for an aluminium pole. I admit I like the withe anodized pole...loos sexy


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

OK..one more question, please.

If I was to get the pole myself, (made elsewhere), and just wanted to buy the gymbal and the pole base hinge, does any one know companies that sell just the gymbal and the base hinge?

Then I would get a pole made for those.

Thanks


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Well if you do put up a Radar pole, insure that it is strong enough to handle a Lateen or lug sail from it for additional sail area. You may need a bobkin to lead the tack sheet to also. 
Now with the above rigged you can now lenghten your bowsprit and fly another jib from it also. 
Wow I think you have increased your sail area by about a third.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Alex:

PYI is located on the way to my boat from work. If you want me to look at something "live", or assist in any way, I stand ready to help.

(This also goes for any other Sailnetters)

David


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

David, YES PLEASE!!!!I would appreciate your help.

If you can go there, look at the pole top gymbal (where the radome attaches), and the pole swivel hinge (at the base of the pole) parts they make, I believe in aluminium, and see if you can find out for what internal diameter pole they are made for..this in case I decide to get the pole elsewhere..I need to spec it out. Their pole is aluminium, and I may use their accessories with a custom CF pole

Thanks

Alex


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Sure.. PM sent.


David


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Oh... and by the way.. in the airplane business, we never put carbon in direct contact with aluminum. An electrochemical reaction occurs and corrodes the aluminum.

I don't know how big of a problem this would be in your application, but it's a definite no-no for airplanes.

David


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## Paul_L (Sep 16, 2004)

Giulietta said:


> David, YES PLEASE!!!!I would appreciate your help.
> 
> ..... Their pole is aluminium, and I may use their accessories with a custom CF pole....


They also offer CF poles - at more cost of course. I have a 4in AL pole from them.








Paul L


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Boasun said:


> Well if you do put up a Radar pole, insure that it is strong enough to handle a Lateen or lug sail from it for additional sail area. You may need a bobkin to lead the tack sheet to also.
> Now with the above rigged you can now lenghten your bowsprit and fly another jib from it also.
> Wow I think you have increased your sail area by about a third.


That's what I've been saying:

*MIZZEN MAST!*


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## Sequitur (Feb 13, 2007)

Giulietta said:


> OK..one more question, please.
> 
> If I was to get the pole myself, (made elsewhere), and just wanted to buy the gymbal and the pole base hinge, does any one know companies that sell just the gymbal and the base hinge?
> 
> ...


Here is the swivel mount I used on Sequitur
Waltz Manufacturing


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

GUU—

Just FYI, the fasteners you use for the foot rests are from PYI...They make good quality stuff.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Giulietta said:


> some solutions are starting to show up sent by some friends here by PM..
> 
> Please keep them coming, ok?
> 
> ...


My 10" alu pole has served me well, with a stern mounted basepad and rail bracket, the pole has no play at all.

We have wanted to make the pole length above the rail bracket detachable, by cutting the pole and installing an inner sleeve to the top section. When installed, the top section would be locked in place via a through bolt secured by a split ring. This approach should retain the strength/regidity of the original pole. I would not want a hinge in something with the length/ load of a 10' (or 14') pole. Note you will need to install a quick disconnect plug in the cord.


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Scanstrut - products


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I'm not sure I'd mount that GPS antenna on the pole with the radar unless it's significantly above or below the scanner.

What's wrong with putting it on the mast, weight during racing season?


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Does the gps antenna need such consistent tracking skyward? I would think it could be mounted anywhere.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

I have my GPS unit mounted on the deck by the mast - they really are not as unreliable as they used to be. I have yet to lose GPS doing so, and probably more accurate as it is not as effected by rools and angle the boat is pushing through the water as it would be aft... - my Sirius weather is still usable below decks... concentrate on the radar and limit it to that is my opinion...


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

That's what I was thinking, the GPS antenna can pretty much take care of itself. Maybe with Giu heeling 45 degrees, leaning back against the cockpit floor while relaxing, it makes a difference. But once those things get a good lock onto the GPS birds, I would think they are good to go. No fancy/high-up monting required.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Guys..my current GPS antenna (Garmin), is flush mounted in the deck, to avoid snags etc...and works perfect..

I just don't want to open more holes on my boat so I will mount the secondary GPS antenna in the pole.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

djodenda said:


> Oh... and by the way.. in the airplane business, we never put carbon in direct contact with aluminum. An electrochemical reaction occurs and corrodes the aluminum.
> 
> I don't know how big of a problem this would be in your application, but it's a definite no-no for airplanes.
> 
> David


OK.. I just talked to and engineer who knows quite a bit about this. He's also a sailor. I'm going paraphrase his comments:

1) Yes, it is a big deal. You do not want to put aluminum in direct contact with carbon (CFRP). You can expect a reaction to set up within 15 minutes of the junction getting wet. You could expect complete failure within 12 to 18 months.

2) The manufacturers who mix CFRP and Aluminum use isolators to keep them from disintegrating.

3) Do you really want to have CFRP at eye level? When it breaks, it can explode into hundreds of needle-sharp fragments that can cause serious injuries. This is less of a problem with CFRP masts, as they usually break higher up, and the sails contain some of the particles

4) Aluminum or Stainless would be a better choice. If you wanted to get really cool and money was no object, you could go with .040" thick 6A-4V titanium

David


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

David, normally the CF areas that are in contact with alluminium have that are isolated with fiberglass and the aluminuim is normally anodized and powerd coated. My boom has several fiberglass sections inside for that purpose.

As far as the explosion I've seen it happen on the boom, remeber? It's a risk, but it's not like a hand grenade shrapnel...won't kill you..

Besides the CF stuff normally is painted with either a colour or clear paint, as if left raw it goes ugly pretty fast..my stuff is all painted too.

I am also considering an all aluminium pole.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

GUU-

Go titanium...  It's light....it's really strong... it's perfect for your boat... and doesn't explode like CF or corrode like aluminum. 

(it's really expensive..)


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

why not stainless for the pole? Would be thinner than aluminum of the same strength


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> As far as the explosion I've seen it happen on the boom, remember?


Yes, I do.. I was looking for a damage picture, but can't find it... Can you point me to it?

Thanks,

David


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)




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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

OK..the pole seems to be almost in..

I got a quote for a Carbon Fiber one for $1300.00, and just received a quote for a Titanium tube for $500.00..

Titanium is sexy...I may just like it.

I received a quote from Waltz for the gimbal for $650.00. 


I sopke with Seaview PYI guys and asked for a quote, but they never replied..maybe they don't need money..

right now all I need is to find is another gimbal for comparison and a hinged base...

looking good


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

*Field Trip to PYI*

I took my field trip to PYI, the builders of the Max-Prop, Seaview radar masts, PSS shaft seals, R&D marine flexible couplings, and other products yesterday.

I've meant to drop by there for some time, as I knew it was close, but didn't realize that I had been driving past it twice a day for the past 4 years.

It's located between my work and home, and conveniently located across the street from the local "Bikini Barista" coffee stand.

It's in a non-descript manufacturing building with a steel yard in back and a lobby up front.

But, boy, is there cool stuff inside!

I learned several things. First, the information for Alex, since he asked first:

On the Seaview radar poles, the lower hinge fits INSIDE the tube, and the gimbaled radar mount fits OUTSIDE the tube.

The tubes they use for this have the following tolerances:

Outside Diameter: 3" +0/-.030"
Wall thickness: .125" +0/-.013"

They did not have a gimbaled mount to show me as they have yet to manufacture one. They expect to have them sometime in mid-January.

The hinge, as well as everything I saw there seemed well engineered and of high quality. I was very impressed.

I saw my first Max-Prop... Cool. Seems like a simple, elegant, reliable design. It's not in my budget range, but I did learn that they stock and sell used ones. They run approximately 2/3 of new price.

I also had a conversation with them about the PSS dripless shaft seal. I'd seen these on boats before, but never up close. Again, another simple, elegant design. They are recommending on all sailboat installations now that the installation includes a connection between the coupling and a vent line above the waterline.

I don't know how I feel about this, as I'm concerned of the risk of a hose/fitting failure. The purpose of the vent hose is to keep an air bubble from forming in the coupling after boat haulout or very rough seas.

They also sell some very nice cabinet fasteners.

Again, overall, this was a fun visit. I was very impressed with what I saw.

Alex: I will send you more of the information you requested via P.M.

David


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Nice report David. Thanks!


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> I received a quote from Waltz for the gimbal for $650.00.


Waltz is the only gimbal maker that I've heard people remember. That doesn't make it the best (it has to be a small market!), but they seem to be a favourite.


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