# Ether and Diesel engines.



## Gulfislander (Aug 10, 2006)

I have a 2 year old Yanmar 2GM20F diesel engine in my boat. This engine does not come with glowplugs. I have been having trouble starting the engine in cold weather. I have been told to use a little ether to help start the engine. I remember as a kid my father starting his truck in the winter with a spray of ether. Is there a problem with using ether on marine diesels or are there other options????


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

I would not use ether on a diesel engine. Ether explodes and diesel burns.I have the same engine and was told to use wd40, have not tried it. It starts on the third try after the head warms up a bit. Try heating the head a little but don't use ether


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

In Australia we have a product called "Start Ya Bastard" . It contains 24% ether.


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## okawbow (Feb 15, 2007)

*ether*

A little ether helps start my YSE8 when it's cold. I crank the engine for a few seconds, and then spray a short shot of ether into the intake. the engine then usually starts the same as it normally does. Too much ether will cause the engine to over-rev for a few seconds.

Don't spray ether into an engine with glow plugs.

Ether is available with lubricant added, and also in a less volitale mixture.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Just remember, if you're cranking a diesel inboard with a water lift muffler for any extended period of time, shut the raw water intake to the exhaust so you don't hydrolock the engine. Hydrolocking the engine is a bad thing and can lead to some really expensive repairs.  

BTW, don't forget to open said water intake once the engine starts... 

I've used WD40, and would suggest that it would make more sense than ether does... ether is far more volatile.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

As my dad says, Ether bad karma for diesel. 

Ive got no clue what that means but my dad is a diesel nut and knows any and everything about them. I will admit that i used a shot of ether on Lola's 1GM10 to get it fired off after setting for 3 years. I tryed WD40, but the motor just wouldn't start with it. I know about ether drying out the cylinder walls, but i give a good shot of WD first. 

Ether is crack for my 3hp Johnson, want more speed? Give it a shot.


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## mhfowle (Sep 13, 2006)

Use a hairdryer to heat the intake air if posible, this usually works. WD40 won't harm the engine. Ether will, but if you do use ether, spray a small amount on a paper towel and put the paper towel near the air intake while you crank the engine. If too much ether is used it'll crak a piston


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

DON'T USE ETHER!! It should be a last resort; and if you ever have the need to use it; don't use the high percentage ether. There is a low-percentage type that you can use in a pinch but you really should not need it. Ether can cause piston/ring damage resulting in poor compression and more difficulty starting than you already have.

On your Yanmar; I believe there should be a series of levers (one on each cylinder) that can be opened to bypass the compression on each. If you open 2 of them up (assuming there is 4) the engine should turn over much more quickly and help get enough compression on the two cylinders that are operating so it will fire. In addition set your safety main to "all" so you get the most CCA available. Once the engine starts you can close the compression bypass levers (you might need to shut down to do this; not sure).

Otherwise; some diesel engines have a pre-heat (a glow plug per-se) that will heat the intake air as it goes through the intake manifold. If your boat is not equipped with one you should ask your local Yanmar dealer if it is available for your engine.

Another possibility is boosting the Cetane of your diesel fuel by adding a diesel additive like Diesel Kleen (w/ cetane booster). I use this additive to bump the cetane up while using bio-diesel (bio-diesel has a slightly lower cetane).

Where are you located and how cold does it get?


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

SimonV said:


> In Australia we have a product called "Start Ya Bastard" . It contains 24% ether.


Ether mixed with a lubricant like this mix is probable a good thing but staight ether is not.


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## dafrogtoad (Oct 11, 2000)

Keelhaulin does the same thing I do w/my 2QM20. I open one of the decompressions levers and WD40.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I've used ether to start diesel engines and I've used it to seat backhoe tires on their rims. Neither are good practises to get into. If you have a compression release I'd investigate that first as the problem with a cold diesel usually involves the inability to crank it fast enough. If you're able to keep a block heater on it (even a light bulb at the sump) or install a block heater you'll find that she'll start quite easily. High compression engines and cold motor oil do not make for an easy starting engine. If you must use ether, just a pssst is all you need. That big old rattling sound you hear when she starts up is an indication of too much ether and is preignition taking place in your cylinders. That is not a good thing and can end up being a very expensive thing. Keep your engine warm and avoid all of this. If it's cold enough that your starter has trouble cranking the engine over, don't even think of using the ether. In that case you absolutely must get the block and oil warmed up.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

sailingdog said:


> I've used WD40, and would suggest that it would make more sense than ether does... ether is far more volatile.


SD - I would venture to suggest that the WD40 is not what was helping your engine start, it's the propellant that gets the WD40 into the engine that did it  .

BTW, I've never had a climate so cold that I had problems starting engines but what we did use on our refrigerated trucks to stop drain pipes from freezing (even in warm climates) is what we called heater tapes. It's essentially a light-weight heater element built into a textile tape and runs on 12V. We wrapped it around the drains inside the freezer compartments to stop the condensate from freezing and blocking the drains.

You might want to try some of this around the inlet manifold? It gets pretty warm and may do the trick.

I must confess, I don't know what sort of current it will draw. On the trucks that was never an issue. Don't blame me for flat batteries 

Andre


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Omatako-

IIRC, you can actually start and run a diesel on the canned fogging oil. The propellant helps, but so does the lubricant itself, which will ignite under the compression of a diesel engine.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

From what I understand from friends that have them, the small Yanmars will start much more easily if you give them full throttle while attempting to start, especially when it's getting colder.

Using a small heat source (light bulb, e.g.) in the engine space can keep the block and oil warm and that too will greatly add winter starting.


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## Gulfislander (Aug 10, 2006)

Thanks Everyone,

I am in the Pacific Northwest so it doen't get that cold. However, I found that even with the engine cover off and a heater in the cabin I was having trouble starting this winter. I will try opening one or two of the decompression valves first and then try the WD40 if that doesn't work. On the dock I'm not so concened as I can temporarily point the heater right at the engine. Its when I'm on the hook with limited power available. Thanks again for the advice.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

This is usually when it is a problem.  Just remember to not crank the engine for extended periods of time or you'll end up hydrolocking it... that is bad.



Gulfislander said:


> Its when I'm on the hook with limited power available. Thanks again for the advice.


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## gc1111 (May 13, 2004)

Ether is perfectly reasonable, I have had a professional from a diesel shop use it to get an engine started. The problem is when you overdo it. Overdoing it comes in two or three flavors:
1) Using pure ether rather than one of the commercial spray can starting sprays. And using too much, just takes a short spray.
2) If you have to do this regularly, it is indicative of another problem. Fix that rather than keeping using the spray - sooner or later the other problem will cause serious trouble.
3) you have a problem that is keeping the engine from starting and you keep trying too long. The engine should kick off on the first or second try with ether. If not, back off and look for the real problem.


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## j34035 (Nov 10, 2006)

I have a 35 year-old garden tiller that is an ether addict! wont start without it for anything. On topic, our local diesel mechanic has used ether to help me get a stubborn diesel started before, but warned me to be really careful, you can do far more damage than good if you get too free with the amount used. Only a very small shot, only enough to get the fire started but not run the engine. SD has good advice on hydrolocking also, that can do tons of expensive damage.
DD


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## Gulfislander (Aug 10, 2006)

*Hydrolocking??*

Can you explain exactly what hydrolocking is and how long is too long for cranking the engine??


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Hydrolock occurs because when you crank your engine for a period of time the raw water pump moves water through the system. Since the engine didn't start, the water does not get "blown" out of the waterlift muffler. If cranking is continued without firing, RW flow continues and water backs up the exhasut system and then flows into the cylinder when an exhaust valve opens. Eventually the cylinder(s) gets enough incompressible liquid in it and it stalls on the compression stroke (It doesn't take much water to do this) .

If you crank for more than say 30 seconds and no start, I'd close the RWC throughhull until it actually starts. If you expect difficulties close it first.

But don't forget to open it once the engine fires and runs


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## Strangeflow (Sep 28, 2007)

I would only ever use ether in a gas engine and then as a last resort, always wd-40 for diesels.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

faster's got a great description of the problem, and the solution...  As I said... Hydrolocking the engine is BAD.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I stick a ceramic space heater in the engine compartment the night before, or even a couple hours. Amazing how easy the diesel starts when it is freezing out.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

SimonV said:


> In Australia we have a product called "Start Ya Bastard" . It contains 24% ether.


There is a certain forthrightness in the Australian character from which we could all learn, I think. I look forward to visiting Australia.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

I can verify what Faster said about a full throttle start. I have a 2GM20F and after cold nights it was taking enough crank sessions for me to shut off the water intake to avoid the dreaded hydrolock. But the Yanmar manual mentioned somewhere to put the throttle on full for a cold start, so I tried it and it worked. And it's worked like a charm the several times since then that we've started in the cold.

Tom


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

You know this makes sense for all diesels (opening the throttle). The fuel delivery is somewhat independent of the air on a diesel; opening the throttle will allow the engine to pull more air in on the intake stroke when starting from dead cold. This will give a bit higher compression while trying to start and aid in getting the diesel vapor to combust.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Common semantics and usage aside. Diesel engines do not have a throttle. They have a governor, which controls (very precisely) only the flow of fuel. So at "full throttle" while cranking the amount of air inducted is exactly the same for the same RPM. My engine manual (also no glowplugs) directs the operator to put the "throttle" to full, pull the kill switch, push it in and crank. Not sure exactly why, and it only works half the time.. maybe more fuel on the cylinder heads/wall will increase the probability that it will ignite somewhere.

One thing I notice while cold cranking, after several tries the fuel starts to burn. Oily thick smoke starts sputtering out but. I guess the is the diesels way of saying "almost there." When that happens I throttle down and she usually fires up after one or two more tries. Don't know if it has been stated yet, but the starter motor has a very short duty cycle. Constant, or continuing cranking for more than a few seconds at a time will destroy it.


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

Yep you are right sailboy; I keep forgetting that diesels don't have a throttle body! Maybe the increased fuel helps the rings seal a bit better, and increase compression a bit.


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## haffiman37 (Jun 4, 2004)

Some diesels in fact do have a 'throtle body', but mainly bigger normally aspirated ones.
As for coldstart 'devices, there are quite a few, depending mainly on pump types and set-up.
The BMW (Hatz) diesels had the most dangerous one. With engine stopped, the pumps went to 'full' open, and not only that,but to cold-start modus adding even more. As the engine started, the governor would retract the rod to th pumps (2-3 seperate), the cold start would be blocked by a cylinder operated by oil-presure to reduce the link-travel between pumps and governor. The danger with this system was that IF water in fuel and the pump elements seized, the govenor and link would not be able to reduce injected amount, and the fun started. Normally the push-rods jumped off at about 4-5000RPM, but quite some boatowners experincing this simply jumped the ship!
The small old Volvos had a similar cold-start system, but atleast You had to give full throtle to make it start. As oil-pressure got up a small pin blocked the travel of the throtle link, but the engine could not run out as on BMW as it 'rested' at idle when not running.
The reason for pulling the stop as menyioned above, is probably to activate a cold-start device similar to that of Volvo/BMW. To give possibility for the pumps to encrease injected fuel amount.
The best advise is to read the manual on the specific engine, as systems might vary.
However what allway gives me a laugh is when I see people pumping the handle before starting!


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