# Catalina 22's and trailer sailing generally



## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

I have been thinking lately about ditching the slip and "downgrading" to a trailer sailor. I had a blast sailing from New York Harbor to Block Island and Newport a few weeks ago, but it was time consuming and I can see how much time is really needed to actually sail places. I saw a public boat ramp at Newport, and was thinking how cool it would be to launch there on a Thursday night, sail to BI or wherever else, then come home Sunday night. That sort of thing. Maybe take weekend trips to other places like the Chesapeake, Maine, Annapolis, etc. I don't have much time, so this would open up new places and sailing locations to me.

I could use my father's boat for the occasional after work "quickie" sail, now that he has a boat himself. It would save me some money too...

My question is, for those who have a cat 22 or similar, how does she sail? Is the 550# swing keel enough to stand her up in the heavier coastal conditions of li sound, bi sound etc (assuming reasonable weather of course)? Has anyone broached one of these boats, and what happened? How about comfort for a couple on a long weekend? Are these boats true dogs, I mean I hit 6 knots regularly in my phrf 234 hunter 25, will a properly sailed cat 22 be able to get anywhere near that with its phrf 270 rating?

I know one should check the towing capacities of a vehicle, but realistically can a typical 4 cylinder mini suv (my GF has a Nissan Rogue) trailer/launch one of these boats? Are there other small, easily trailerable boats out there that are worth looking into?

Thanks for your advice/opinions, and any pics of your boat are welcomed!


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I had the UK clone a Jaguar 22 with the swing keel. However I was a cruiser so anytime the knot meter was reading over 5 I was reefing. It was also my first real boat with a lid so maybe I was a bit conservative. Never broached mine even with the spi but like I said I was conservative.

Sailed mine across the English channel, around the West coast of Scotland [ a VERY special cruising area ] and down the Adriatic to Albania. Towed it across Europe behind a Citroen CX 2.0

Mostly singlehanded but with a friend from time to time. Bit short on water but generaly doable.

Taught me a lot.


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## WesAllen (Oct 13, 2005)

You might try www dot catalina22 dot org and check with their forum. There is a lot of knowledge that you could use from these members.


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

TQA said:


> I had the UK clone a Jaguar 22 with the swing keel. However I was a cruiser so anytime the knot meter was reading over 5 I was reefing. It was also my first real boat with a lid so maybe I was a bit conservative. Never broached mine even with the spi but like I said I was conservative.
> 
> Sailed mine across the English channel, around the West coast of Scotland [ a VERY special cruising area ] and down the Adriatic to Albania. Towed it across Europe behind a Citroen CX 2.0
> 
> ...


West Scotland and the English channel, impressive! Was the 2.0 meaning a 2 liter engine? Got any pics from these cruises?


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hello,

My first boat was a Catalina 22 that I trailer sailed for a season, then put on mooring for another season (but only sailed the C22 for half the season because I bought a Newport 28 and sold the C22).

Anyway, I did not enjoy trailer sailing. Even with a lot of practice it took 1 hour to get the boat from the trailer into the water and another hour to get it from the water and back onto the trailer and ready to roll.

The boat sailed fine. I was a raw rookie when I sailed that boat, so it's hard for me to remember specifics, but the LI Sound is full of C22's so that must mean something. Two people could spend a weekend on board, but you better be real good friends because there is not a lot of room. The pop top will help a lot when you're at anchor / mooring / slip. The 'head' is just a porta potty in the corner of the v berth, the 'galley' is also real spartan. 

I towed it with a Honda Odyssey minivan and driving at 60 was fine.

I don't know if trailer sailing will work for your or not, but it was not for me. Part of the problem was my kids were very young at the time (2, 5, 8) and having them sit around for an hour while my wife and I got the boat ready wasn't fun. Even worse was at the end of the sail, when everyone was tired.

Good luck,
Barry


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## CatMan22 (Apr 16, 2012)

I moved up to a Catalina 22 from a Gale Force 20 this year the Gale Force had a cuddy cabin, it was built by Rinker and was a nice little trailer sailor although space was very limited. My Catalina has been a joy, although there has been a learning curve to her. Stepping the mast is more difficult and time consuming as this is usually a solo venture, although lake where I sail does have two manual cranes at docks. The cabin is snug, but is not a hardship for two when overnighting or weekending. The amenities though simple still are nice to have, the sink, pop top, dodger and screen, porta potty all come in handy as does the two burner propane stove I use in her. I use a two wheel drive half ton pick up to haul her due to tongue weight of trailer.


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## chip (Oct 23, 2008)

There are very dedicated trailer sailors who devise systems of gin poles and things to step and unstep their masts quickly, and they really enjoy the freedom of being able to trailer all over the place and sail in lots of different waters. I love the idea, but I'm personally not one of them. I find stepping and unstepping the mast to be relatively annoying, especially if I don't have at least one other guy to help. I would sail 1/10th the amount that I do now if I had to raise and lower the mast each time. I leave my boat at a marina, rigged, on the trailer.

I don't know anything about the Nissan Rogue off the top of my head, but this says it's rated to tow 1000 lbs, and I wouldn't do it. The boat weighs like 2400 lbs empty. The trailer plus all the junk that boats accumulate probably puts it closer to 4000+ in total. A car (or truck-shaped car) would pull it on flat ground, but I'm not sure that it would stop it or drag it up a steep ramp. My truck is rated for 5000 lbs, and I wouldn't personally trust anything less.

That said, I love my C22. I think it's a great boat to learn on--very forgiving, cheap to maintain, and still big enough for weekending. I've hit 6.3kts on the GPS without current, but it's certainly not a fast boat. It's definitely a displacement hull, and it only has 19' of waterline, so there's only so much to work with. The keel is light and she'll sail faster on her feet so you've got to reef early, but she'll take a lot more weather than her crew will.

I log all of my sailing activities here if you want to know what she'll do: Sailing Fortuitous


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## DonScribner (Jan 9, 2011)

Pete,

We trailer sail every weekend possible. It takes about 35 minutes to step and launch after you get used to doing it and it does give you the power to sail DUW at 70 knots. Ours is a Lancer 25 and is big enough for week long excursions for two. She is a bit heavier than you're suggesting though. Boat, gear and trailer are in the 5500 lbs range so we use our F150 to haul her. If you went with a water ballasted boat, you'd loose about 1000 lbs. If you're serious about this, pick up a copy of The Complete Trailer Sailor by Brian Gilbert. He has lots of great info on trailering and sailoring. In the back, he provides quite a list of boats with sketches, photos, specs, pros and cons on them. It was suggest to me by James L Nelson, friend, sailing guru, swiller of fine brews and cheap beer . . . oh, and noted novelist with many books available at fine bookstores everywhere! Ask for him by name! (Shameless plug for you, Jim) Actually, Jim is a childhood friend, a real character and a good man.

Anyway . . . cheap advice and shameless canvasing aside, good luck with the new boat! 

Don,

Biddeford, ME


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Trailer sailing is a perfectly viable way forward, inexpensively. I don't know I'd want to tow a cat 22 with such a small vehicle, but I suspect it COULD.

Setup on the Cat 22 is not horrible, with the swing keel it sits low on the trailer making it easier to get onto while still on the trailer.

I agree that checking out the cat22 association is a good idea if this is what you are considering. catalina22.org

As far as "not being a dog," these boats are reasonable to sail, except in very light winds where they are harder to keep going. Hull speed is the deciding factor in overall speed for a boat, and that's mostly dictated by waterline, so obviously the shorter the boat, the slower the top hull speed (please no discussions of surfing or planing, that's a whole different ball game)... That being said, it's gonna feel pretty fast on such a small vessel.

I can't answer how well it'd do in a broach or sailing bigger waters, but I can tell you tons of people do it, who are very familiar with the boats (I am assuming some upgrades to rigging are in order).

Either way, the Cat 22 is a great boat, and worth a consideration. I respectfully submit the Precision 21, and precision 18 as other worthy boats. If you want heavier, and easier in heavy wind/water, try the Com-pac 19. Ton's of other boats to consider in older vintages too numerous to mention.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

peterchech said:


> West Scotland and the English channel, impressive! Was the 2.0 meaning a 2 liter engine? Got any pics from these cruises?


Yup 2 litre engine. Which is a BIG engine by UK standards but I realise that it barely makes it of the bottom of the scale in the US. It did the job. I was careful to use a rope between car and trailer, keeping the car on the level.


From Hoot Mon


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

One thing to check before venturing into less protected waters is the condition of the keel pivot bushing.

A surprising number of people cruise these boats. We loved ours, but stepped up to a 30 for the live aboard room.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

I have a Cat22 that I tow with a Ford Freestar Minivan with a 4 liter V6 engine. My van handles it easily. 

I have trailer launched boats for 20 years. I have my Catalina in a slip because its just such an ordeal to get it set up each time. 

I think its a pretty stable boat and I trust it in reasonable conditions. 15 knots wind and above with some whitecaps we put a reef in and leave one hatch board in, sail conservatively and she is fine. My boat is old, I have gone over the rigging but when its gets really rough and the lee shrouds are slack and the keel clunks. I worry a bit, just due to the age. But the hull always feels solid and dry and not tender. My point is you will really want to check it completely so you feel confident when she heels over.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

> My question is, for those who have a cat 22 or similar, how does she sail?


My first boat was a C22. In light winds it sails like any other keel boat. It relys a bit on hull form stability, so, in heavy air it starts sailing more like a dinghy. It is possible to capsize a C22 if you get supprised by a big gust. Normally it will just round-up rather than go over, but, if it does go over you can get significant down flooding from lockers, the main hatch, and the gas locker vents (if a port knockdown). I sold my C22 to a guy who did just that. Got knocked down, and sank the boat. In higher wind or gusty conditions, I would keep the main sheet uncleated, and sheet in hand. You can also take the precaution of putting hatch boards in, latching cockpit lockers, and maybe even stuffing a sock in vents.


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

TQA said:


> Yup 2 litre engine. Which is a BIG engine by UK standards but I realise that it barely makes it of the bottom of the scale in the US. It did the job. I was careful to use a rope between car and trailer, keeping the car on the level.
> 
> 
> From Hoot Mon


I have a 2.1 litre on my chevy malibu. Did you have a transmission cooler added?

I guess you used a rope/wire to winch it into the water and back, instead of driving it down the ramp as you would with t truck?

I have seen alot of boats being towed by small cars in europe, I guess you make due with what you got sometimes, though it can't be good on a car...


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

DonScribner said:


> Pete,
> 
> We trailer sail every weekend possible. It takes about 35 minutes to step and launch after you get used to doing it and it does give you the power to sail DUW at 70 knots. Ours is a Lancer 25 and is big enough for week long excursions for two. She is a bit heavier than you're suggesting though. Boat, gear and trailer are in the 5500 lbs range so we use our F150 to haul her. If you went with a water ballasted boat, you'd loose about 1000 lbs. If you're serious about this, pick up a copy of The Complete Trailer Sailor by Brian Gilbert. He has lots of great info on trailering and sailoring. In the back, he provides quite a list of boats with sketches, photos, specs, pros and cons on them. It was suggest to me by James L Nelson, friend, sailing guru, swiller of fine brews and cheap beer . . . oh, and noted novelist with many books available at fine bookstores everywhere! Ask for him by name! (Shameless plug for you, Jim) Actually, Jim is a childhood friend, a real character and a good man.
> 
> ...


Just got the book for my kindle app thanks!


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

_ In light winds it sails like any other keel boat. It relys a bit on hull form stability, so, in heavy air it starts sailing more like a dinghy. - Barquito_

I think that is an interesting comment and probably true of the Cat 22 and of many other 2000 lb sailboats. Also a great comment about closing the boat up. It does have a 500 lb keel and it draws 5'. The keel on your boat looks massive though.

I sailed my Cat 22 in 20 knots today with just a reefed main and it was docile and poked along great. Its easy to handle with a reefed main. My wife was freaked out by the whitecaps which were rolling the boat sideways a bit, but it was nothing really. After a while it just got normal. I think 20 knots wind and 2 foot waves are our limit at this time with this boat.


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## chip (Oct 23, 2008)

It's a solid little boat. A lot of things would have to go wrong to sink one. Letting the main out pops it right back up, and the positioning of the main sheet makes it easy to leave it uncleated to ride the gusts accordingly in frisky weather. I've only put the crib boards in on my boat once, and that was in 30 kts (motoring on bare poles).










I would feel much, much safer sailing my boat in 25kts than towing it with a vehicle that's not rated for its weight.


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

gfh said:


> It's a solid little boat. A lot of things would have to go wrong to sink one. Letting the main out pops it right back up, and the positioning of the main sheet makes it easy to leave it uncleated to ride the gusts accordingly in frisky weather. I've only put the crib boards in on my boat once, and that was in 30 kts (motoring on bare poles).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice pic!

Thanks for the info.


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