# First sailboat with Kids - need advice



## pgreenx

I'm sure this post has been done before but I looked and could not find it so here goes:
Im looking for my first sailboat 24-28 foot range. Will be used with a nervous wife and 9 year old son strictly for day sails mostly on Hudson river but may move to western long island sound. My criteria is as follows:
- can single hand easily
- stable and safe boat
- ok in light winds
- good and safe in stiffer winds
- comfortable cockpit (I only need a cabin to store stuff)
- good resale value/as easy to sell as possible when ready to move up
- want to use an outboard but handy with engines and would take a diesel
I do not plan on racing. Have looked at Colgate 26, J24 and J28 so far. Would appreciate some advice. My budget is open (as high a say 25k for right boat; the right boat is more important 
Thanks


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## jwing

When I was about 10 or eleven, I started sailing Sunfish and I loved it. On the other hand, I thought sitting in my parents' friends' big sailing yacht was like sitting in a prison cell. My recommendation is, try to get your son stoked on sailing by buying a boat that he can sail, capsize, goof around on, sail with his buddies, or race with other kids. This probably means much smaller than 28 feet. Alternatively, join a sail club that owns some sailing dinghies and has a kid-friendly vibe.

As for your nervous wife, she will need a boat much bigger than 28 feet and maybe even then she won't be comfortable. I hate to say this and I hope I'm wrong in your case, but knowing what I know about people, I'll guess that the nervous wife is not going to be an enthusiastic sailor. Therefore, you may want to consider sailing as a father/son activity and tailor your early sailing experiences and purchases toward your son's abilities and interest. When he is older, you can get the 28-footer and hang out with him on the boat. 

Alternatively, you can join a sail club that not only has a kid-friendly vibe, but is also socially congenial enough that your wife can meet and sail with women who are not nervous on a sailboat. That usually make a huge difference.

Bottom line: Give your son access to a small, simple boat; even better if there are some kids his own age that are sailing similar boats. Don't buy a larger boat until you have determined the level of interest your son and your wife will actually have (rather than what they have in your daydreams).


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## Donna_F

I didn't get the impression the boat was strictly for the son, but I may have miss-read. Sounds like he wants something the family can sail on but with a young son and jittery wife, the OP might be singlehanding even with them on board.

I don't know much about the Colgate but aren't J-boats marketed to racers, which the OP said he isn't interested in doing?


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## Scotty C-M

Pgreenx, sailing is a great family experience. I agree that a small dinghy for the son is a great idea, but that dosen't mean that there is not a place in your plans for your wife and all of you together. There are a lot of smaller, stable sailing yachts that can work for you. My idea: Get a smaller keel boat. An example from my family (way back when) was a Columbia 26 MKI. It was inexpensive but very stable. We wanted a cabin - so that's what we got. Get your wife involved in this decision. If she dosen't like it, well, you can see where that leads. Look around at what's available in your area. It's always nice to get a class (type) that has others in that area. Nothing like meeting other sailors who have the same boat!! By all means look into sailing clubs that both you and your wife might enjoy. There are many diffent ways to enjoy sailing. Find the activities, like daysailing, anchoring, cruising, etc., that your wife enjoys and you'll be way ahead. Have you taken any boating classes together? I've found that listening to my wife ends up making my boating mo' bettah. Best wishes to you.


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## Faster

If your wife is already nervous, I think your first few trips should be without your child.. If you're lucky and get good conditions she may come to appreciate the possibilities without worrying about the new sensations AND her child. Also, as an introduction if your son sees his mother is frightened he'll likely feed off of that.

Perhaps, too, take a daysail with only the son once you feel competent to get his personal take, without worrying about or feeding off his mother's reaction. Take things in steps and then go for the whole show.

It's a bit cliche, but a boat like a Catalina 25/27 would be a lower cost entry into sailing, easily resold if things go south. Fixed keel better than centerboard, and if you want to go to the full outlay earlier then a Catalina 30 would be a good one. Hard to find a more stable boat than that, but it's also far more boat than you'd need for simple daysailing. There will be similar examples in other mainstream brands in your area.. Sabre, Cal, Ranger to name a few. 

As Donna alluded to above, for nervous sailors avoid race-oriented boats that rely to a degree on crew weight and agility for stability and righting moment. The J28 is a cruisier boat but maybe hard to find at your budget point.. the J24 would not be one I'd recommend though it's a great daysailer if you have an adequate competent crew.


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## abudoggie

I embarked on the same journey last year. Only small boat lake sailing experience when I was young. We now live close enough to the Chesapeake that I got an itch to get a keelboat for day sail with our kids (10 & 12) and/or my wife and/or dog. Didn't have quite a big of a budget as you. With some patience I found an old Pearson 28 in very good shape at about a fifth of your budget. Had it hauled and surveyed (a must-do imho). Has been a great experience so far. My 12 year old daughter in particular has taken great interest in actually learning to sail (unlike my dog who just goes along for the ride and been mostly worthless at helping dock/undock). My son is maturing and showing greater interest this season (unlike my dog). Its big enough that I feel it is a great platform should I want to trade up (32-34 would be perfect). Small enough to single-hand easily. At your budget you should be able to find something much newer than I did but don't rule out an older well-maintained boat. Mine has a gas A4, I would have preferred a diesel but the motor was a new rebuild in great shape so I compromised. One concern is that it sounds like you are already going into it knowing you are going to trade up so maybe think lower dollar for now and save money for the trade up.

Be patient and find something in good shape (motor, sails, deck core, hull, rigging, etc.). There is a good prepurchase survey checklist on the forums here somewhere. When you narrow it down and make an offer, get a real survey done (which your insurance company will probably require anyhow). My surveyor also helped prioritize what needed attention and establish a overall spending limit on add-ons (ie, on resale you will never recover anything above $X that you put into this boat). I'm actually pretty happy with the boat as she sits. While I might like to trade up, I don't feel a pressing need to do so as the '28 meets our day sail needs just fine. Good luck and stay safe whatever you decide to do.


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## overbored

You did not say how much experience you have, since it will be your first boat you may want to sail it with an experienced sailor or instructor until you are good enough to not scare the wife. even if you know how to sail there will be a learning curve with any new boat. Consider having an instructor with you on your wives first time on the boat. not for you but for her. instructors know how to not scare a beginner. 
when buying a used in your price range remember to have another 20% in reserve for the things you did not know you were going to need.


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## engineer_sailor

We sail a Catalina 27 on the Chesapeake with our now 5 and 3 year old sons. Great family boat that also sails well. Ours is on the later end of the production run and has a very nice well kept interior which was key for the family.

Josh

Josh


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## Stumble

I keep coming back to something like on Olson 29/30 or a J-27. Extremely good light air boats, and if you stay with a smaller headsail very easy to sail. 

A Seascape 18 would be great too... A used Melgus 24, 

I tend towards the performance end of things, particularly in a light air venue, so keep that in mind.


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## caberg

pgreenx said:


> - comfortable cockpit (I only need a cabin to store stuff)


You may want to re-think the importance of a cabin to you. For the kids, it can be a reprieve from the sun, or the rain, and a place to sit and eat at a table, or play a game, or even watch a movie or take a nap (our 6 year old has been doing all those things in the cabin since he was 3). For the nervous sailor, it's usually a lot less scary in the cabin when the wind kicks up.

Really, there is no right answer and tons of boats out there that will work for you. The heavier the boat, typically the more stable. From what you have written you are not looking for a light air performance boat. The J boats are not for you. Look at something like a Cape Dory 25. CAPE DORY 25 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


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## AdamLein

I'll put in a good word for the C27 as well, our first boat. We had plenty to choose from and you probably will too. They are typically armed with 10 or 15hp outboards, leaving plenty of storage space below the cockpit. It will take three very comfortably in any season; you'll have space for friends as well. They can be had for as little as $5K in decent condition, and most have hit the depreciation plateau by now. They're safe, stable, dry, and pretty tough.

Look for the "traditional" layout, not the "dinette", which we have, and which creates traffic jams down below.


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## titustiger27

as a single guy who isn't much of a sailor...

I think you take the advice offered, which appears to be really good, and really think about your situation

1) is your wife nervous or does she really not want to sail??
2) your budget is open, but are the costs open?
3) in five years, if things go as you plan, how do you see your sailing family?

If your wife doesn't want to say, and I know this might seem rude, maybe you leave her at home. Unless you want to live on a sailboat in 10 years and cruise the pacific, maybe she can go hang gliding while you are sailing. Or, it would be a shame to try to accommodate your wife's thoughts about saying, when her general thought is: "I don't want to sail" and ends up hardly going out.

The right boat for $25K might mean you have to spend a lot of time repairing, painting... paying for a slip... you know the joke, a boat is a whole that you invest a (good) part of your life.

I agree a cabin is very important if you are out for a while, but if all you have for time is two hours a couple times a month... maybe you and your son have a catamaran to get wet on and exercise.

I am a book guy and I read a book (think it is out of print) that really made me think about purchase over / use. "How to Buy the Best Sailboat: An Updated Edition of the Leading Consumer Guide With a New Chapter on Selling a Boat," by Charles Gustafson (it's out of print, but there are others, or you can buy a used one at half.com). Look at your life and how you want to sail, and that will be important. In the appendix he looks at what you value as important and walks you through analyzing that.

____

After three years of sailing (with dwindling interest) when I was 22, I decided to rent a boat slip for my LoneStar 13. Before the slip: the first year I sailed once a week on the Maumee River. Second year, twice every three weeks. the the third year I sailed every other week. The fourth year I got the slip, to save rigging time, which I thought was the reason I had reduced sailing time..

Well it turns out, in my life I only had three hours or so to sail, I could rig, un rig and sail in three hours. The key for me was: 1) thinking and 2) life. once I put the boat in a slip and it wasn't in my back yard, I didn't think about sailing... or the boat. so that slip year I sailed about four times all summer, but ended up making a trip to the boat two other times to bail it out after it rained. And the big problem was the boat was the same time in commuting time as it was in rigging. I could have driven to the boat in (round trip) two hours, the year before it took me one hour (round trip) to drive to the boat and one to rig/un-rig, but I didn't think about sailing because the boat wasn't in my driveway anymore. and of course you can't plan that.

In the end what do you... your family want. There is nothing wrong with a boat with a large cockpit that you spend a lot of time entertaining friends in (hardly leaving the dock), if that is what you like to do.


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## bvander66

Our first family keel boat was a Catalina 27 with an A4.
We had many a great summer aboard her on the Hudson, Raritan Bay and later the western LIS. Bought her for $5k, sold her 5 years later for $6k.


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## MarkofSeaLife

Its easy getting the wife enthusiastic about the boat. Every time she doesn't want to go out take an ex-girlfriend instead.

You cannot wait for everyone else in this life, otherwise you will never do it and die having done nothing.

I wait for no one else. Ever.


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## SHNOOL

pgreenx said:


> I'm sure this post has been done before but I looked and could not find it so here goes:
> Im looking for my first sailboat 24-28 foot range. Will be used with a nervous wife and 9 year old son strictly for day sails mostly on Hudson river but may move to western long island sound. My criteria is as follows:
> - can single hand easily
> - stable and safe boat
> - ok in light winds
> - good and safe in stiffer winds
> - comfortable cockpit (I only need a cabin to store stuff)
> - good resale value/as easy to sell as possible when ready to move up
> - want to use an outboard but handy with engines and would take a diesel
> I do not plan on racing. Have looked at Colgate 26, J24 and J28 so far. Would appreciate some advice. My budget is open (as high a say 25k for right boat; the right boat is more important
> Thanks


OK... so lemme look at this list... cause you are looking for a family daysailer...

Colgate 26 = raceboat (but highly stable) good ones will run $6k to $20k depending on how new, and shape, that's with a trailer.
J24 = raceboat, less stable, but easily raced... has been classified as some as "tender." Buy them all day long under $8k with a trailer
J28 = performance cruiser (yes, not cruiser/racer). The J28 is a HUGE boat (for 28 footer, and comparing to above), lots of cabin space, and can be single handed. Nice boat, but nothing like the other 2. Good luck getting one at $25k

Others have given you other options, and all good suggestions (why I love this place). They all have their merit.

Here's why... Your kid may or may not like sailing. You can feed off the independence is KING angle and get the kid into sailing a pram, or other small dinghy... and it COULD work.

Also your wife might come around, and might not... your ability to sway that is dependent only partially on you, 25% might be a high number on that. Putting a person (male or female, young or old) who does not like the feeling of heeling (is uneasy), on a tender/sportier boat, will likely shut them down almost immediately. Small trailerable boats, say under 25 feet (even rock stable boats like the Compac 23, or Catalina 25), will be too tender for them initially, and could lead them to a life on land.

I don't have a good solution for you except to say this... YOUR competency, goes a long way toward those around you enjoying themselves. When I first started sailing my keelboat, I went out in conditions to test my skills, and unfortunately took along others that weren't sailors to begin with. They had left with the belief that its all an uncontrolled train wreck (which it can be until you learn the limits of yourself and your boat). A couple years later I took the same people with me (somehow, don't ask me how), and was out in much worse conditions on my infinitely more tender boat (Upgraded my Capri 22 to Capri 25), and they were wholly relaxed and enjoyed themselves... Difference? I knew my boat inside and out by then, and had logged countless hours sailing it myself.

So if you do this, be confident yourself in your skills, get the time in yourself, be ready for all kinds of weather, be over-cautious with sail area especially taking the wife out (again not because of being the fairer sex, but because of the aforementioned uneasy feeling with boat motion)... I'd take kids and wife out on different trips, let them each acclimate themselves on their own terms rather than feeding on each other (for good or bad). Finally know that no matter how good a day you have, or how positive a light you put on it, some will just NEVER grow to like it.

Kids like to swim (usually)... if you sail to, anchor, lunch, swim, sail back... sometimes the deal works for kids.

Other times its about the competition, (older boys/girls - to teens) sometimes enjoy the competition aspect, and racing is the deal.. in which case your choices might be quite good, especially the colgate 26 (an easy performer with all the right tools, and still pretty stable).

For wife - Sometimes its about overnighting... and go to the boat, sunset cruise, wine and cheese, anchor, sleep aboard, breakfast and a motor-sail back in light air, in which case the J28 would be ideal (or the Pearson 28, or Catalina 27)...

Pick your poison, develop what you think works in the above scenarios, and try it out. But remember its OK for YOU to have a hobby that no one else in the family enjoys (that's one of those things MANY people don't get)... by the way, that's right where I am (my daughter just kind of tolerates it, 12, because swimming might be involved at times - and she's not the slightest bit afraid of ANY of it, has been with me during 10 knot spinnaker runs).

One last word, and maybe this is the key for you (just trying to throw it ALL at you and let you sort it out now)...
I HAD NO CHOICE but to sail with my father when I was 10. My mother hated being the deck ape (Dad was always just the driver)... She hated it was "all work," and my sisters/brother were all 4-10 years older than me an into their own teenage self-absorbed nature that is common for many at that age... So I was "Dad's crew." I wasn't a fan of sailing from 5yo to 9yo. At 10 I had 2 friends at the sail club, that had boats (both 11 yos, so I wanted to be them)... anyway they got me liking small boats... then I started to get racing (as we raced wildflowers and sandpipers, both snark boats)... then I got a snark of my own (loved it). But I also REALLY started to like sailing. I loved swimming too. Anchoring, lunches, racing, and eventually I understood how to sail, no really really sail! We even started getting great starts (we sailed the slowest boat in the club, in a summer mostly no wind series, so we lost a lot)... It helped though... eventually I was able to do it all. By the time I was 16 Dad moved down to a trailer sailer, and it was just him and I launching it (he had no slip), to sail.. and it was a TON of work to launch the 23 footer, sail for a long weekend, and tear back down. I learned even more. By this time I STILL felt obligated to Dad to help (even though I preferred fishing at the time). Years later, many years later, probably late 20s, I felt like I had given up on sailing, when I shouldn't have. My point. Being forced to go, pushed me into loving sailing. Because lets face it, it can be a tremendous amount of work to sail. So maybe force the kids to go... find a way for the wife to like it... and THAT's the way to start... if the kid shows a glimmer of interest, buy them a pram, opti, snark, sunfish, or best laser pico. You'll have crew for life.


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## ralba1998

I never sailed much as a kid or even as an adult but, my dad always had a passion about sports and the sea. I used to hate cycling as a kid but, my dad made us ride bikes all the time, I eventually raced and love it still (40 some odd years later), I used to hate winter but, my dad made us ski to the point where we loved skiing (still do).. I wish I could say I had the same experience with sailing as a kid but, we didn't have the resources for a boat or knew many friends that had one but , what I can safely say is that if we did have access to a boat, my dad would make us be on it til we loved it. So, I agree with the above.

We are sort of of in the same boat (get the pun), with the only difference that our kids are into it. Even my daughter so far and she is 6 .They have not been in rough seas yet but, like anything in time they will experience it and either hate sailing or still love it. We are novices for the most part but, are making the time and investments (on other peoples boats) so that this becomes a family thing. 

My wife wants to jump in and get a boat (which is great) and I am not sure what kind would work as we have similar likes but, different comforts. I am trying to convince her first, let's get good enough first then get a boat!

So, I think the advice about 1) getting your kids to do it works 2) make it fun for them but, give them an area to take a break being good (so a small cabin) 3) having a skipper with you with more experience while you are learning the boat and 4) maybe bring an ex with you will help your wife come around (just kidding - that is WAY bad advice  ).

There are so many boats that we like - one is the Farr40 but, that would be way over my head and I would need a crew of 10 to help me with that... So, don't get that boat...


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