# Annapolis Sailboat Show Observations & Notes



## engineer_sailor (Aug 27, 2011)

The wife and I had a chance to go to the sailboat show on Friday. The weather was on and off rainy. Most boat vendors let you leave your shoes on. The Keens were perfect for on/off rain and easy on/off.

A few observations from the show:

1. The Gunboat 60 looks awesome. Didn't get a chance to go in but what a great looking catamaran.

2. The Blue Jacket 40 was really interesting and the craftsmanship was phenomenal. Three cabins in a 40 foot boat is rare. The tradeoff was only one head. The quoted price tag of $450k for a 40ft sailboat is way steep however.

3. The new Catalina 275 Sport is a confusing boat. I am biased as I have an 1985 Cat 27 but I can't imagine a cruising couple starting out in it and its not really a racing boat (like a J Boat) either. I am only 5'8" and I couldn't stand up completely down below. The $80k price tag seems like a steep entry price. Didn't see any really viable family boats below 30 feet. Sub-30 feet seems to be focused on racing. 

4. The new Hunter 37 is totally different than the other Hunter boats. Sleeker, straighter lines, and the overall craftmanship (interior and exterior) seems to have stepped up a notch or two. Very clean and uncluttered deck.

5. Catalina looked like they were using solid teak in their interiors. Beneteau in contrast appeared to be using vaneer all over the place. I would be worried about how well vaneer holds up over time.

6. Many boats now have HUGE port holes some of them halfway down the hull on both port and starboard. Seems like a large water ingress point if the port hole fails (even if unlikely)

Favorite Boats: Catalina 355, Hylas 49, Hylas 56, Passport 47, and Blue Jacket 40

Should be fun to hear other thoughts on the show and boats.

Josh


----------



## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

I went on Friday as well - it was my first show. I spent most of my time climbing on the Alerions and the Tartans and was thrilled to see a West Wright Potter for the first time. I didn't realize they were still in production. My impression was a lot of very big boats, quite a few small daysailers, and almost nothing in between (25-40 feet).

Talking to the Tartan dealer, he said that the show was bigger and that more sales were happening than last year. 

Quite a few deals around. Henri Lloyd in particular had a great sale, with many nice items selling for 50% of sticker price or less.


----------



## Rezz (Oct 12, 2012)

I thought the show had a good variation of boats. I actually liked the Beneteau First 25S.

Despite its sheer size, I wasn't impressed with the Swan 80 that was there. Sure, it's pretty, but that's about it. Thanks to the new owner, though, for bringing it along.

This was my first time seeing Seawards. I think they're much nicer inperson than photos led me to believe. The designer, Mr. Hake, was a nice gentleman too. I wouldn't mind getting one of those boats.

There were more swing keels in general this year. I'm glad it's more than just Seaward and Southerly making boats that can be dried out - pretty neat.

The crowds were very light on Friday, so I was glad I went on a rainy day instead of on the weekend. Sorry I missed all the SN people


----------



## benesailor (Dec 27, 2012)

Went both thursday and friday.


> Despite its sheer size, I wasn't impressed with the Swan 80 that was there. Sure, it's pretty, but that's about it. Thanks to the new owner, though, for bringing it along.


i concur. Oh but the technology! Carbon, titanium.....super light! FAST
The owners section was SMALL.

My favorite of the production boats was the Dufour 41. Well built and great layout with ONE head. I thinks it's a waste to have two heads on a 40 foot boat. Especially for a couple. It had great storage above and below. Good rigging, solid. No wood in deck. The Bene 41 had a small v-berth and bad layout. The Bene 38 was interesting. My fave; the Outbound 46 and Antares 44 (not new this year)

I met an older couple that owned a 22' powerboat and was looking for a Catamaran to cruise the world on; no sail experience! That's mind blowing.

That Gunboat looked amazing.


----------



## RedHorizon (May 13, 2012)

My wife and I went Friday and Saturday. We typically look at the 30-40 foot boats as those are the ones we may be able to buy one day.

The use of veneer in the Beneteau line dosent look like it will hold up well, I agree...and the huge windows in the side of the hulls definitely look like trouble in a few years.

Hunter has a hit with their 33...very nice boat and I agree they definitely look like they have stepped up their build quality. It was our hands down favorite of the production boats.

The Seawards do look decently made and a nice value for a trailerable 32 foot boat. We liked they actually had a rub rail down the side of the hull. We'd seen them before and liked them.

The blue jacket was a well built and a nice looking 40. You could see some of the Tartan design elements. Even with the single head...it looks to be a great boat with a nice layout.

We had never seen a Rustler 36 before and it was our favorite boat of the show. Craftsmanship was outstanding and is exactly what we want...small issue on the $340k price tag.

On most boats, the anchor lockers and latches continued to be a source of amusement for us...the boats were clearly not designed for anchor handling. A few boats even had an opening hatch right underneath where you be handling chain...I'm sure that will stand up well over time.

The use of flush hatches wasn't a welcome sight as I think it looks cheap...plus they all had large No Step signs on them. The Gunboat 60 had two of its flush hatches sealed with duck tape...to stop leaks.

The Beneteau, Dufour, and Catalina cabin soles looked cheap...with exposed screw heads and poor joinery and gaps that would collect debris...add that to the flexing under my weight (220 lbs), and we weren't impressed.

Vendors had great pricing...I purchased a new Garhauer MT 1 traveller for $250!


----------



## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

I'd be curious to hear what some of the other deals on products and gear people were finding?


----------



## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

Sat visit for me.

I mainly went to see vendor booths. Got there well before they opened and left around 4:30pm. By the time I went through the booths, I walked the docks for boats. The only one I stepped foot on was a Lagoon 450 out of curiosity. Nice layout. Beautiful but it didn't have the right "feel" for me. The wood finished looked cheap like something you'd get at Ikea. Much lighter in color than I like too. Just the exteriors of many boats didn't appeal to me either. I tend to like the lines on much older boats. I walked past an Orion catamaran. That thing is HUGE!

The main thing I did buy was a Galvanized 25lb Mantus anchor for $184, normally $230. They didn't have any more available so put in an order and no cost for shipping either. Good thing I saw in person. I was considering a 35lb but looking at the physical size, I thought it wouldn't fit on the bowsprit and went with 25lb. Even that size might be bigger than what I have now.

There was plenty of other things I could have bought but they can wait. I really did enjoy myself. This was my first time at the Annapolis show. There were a couple products I was looking at getting where I was considering one model but seeing in person, feel a different model would be a better fit. Example of this is a composting head. I've been looking at the Natures Head but after seeing that and the Airhead, I'm now leaning toward the Airhead because it is a little smaller and better for the space I have in my head.

Still, it was good to walk around and see what was out there. I may go again. Especially once I start doing refit work on my boat.


----------



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

As one who works on boats every day I tend to look beyond the superfluous skin deep spit shine.

I saw some excellent craftsmanship and some stuff I just shake my head at.




* 7 figure boats with free floating cabin sole boards?

* Looking in every common sense quick location for seacocks and still not finding them...

* More than half the boats still not meeting the new ELCI AC main breaker standards

* 7 figure boats that would require a step ladder at the helm just to see where you are sailing.

* Stepping into galleys / cabins with zero hand holds

* 7 figure boats with water puddling issues on deck, one of them right over the fuel fill.

* 6 & 7 figure boats with deck leaks (one had a puddle under the v- berth mattress)

* Mid six figure 48+ foot boats with less holding, fuel and water tankage than our 36 footer.... 

* Bow chocks on mid six & seven figure boats angled only for dock ties.. Guess anchoring is an after thought....

* Vessels with flooded batteries improperly installed

* Inverter chargers installed in locations that will only serve to ensure they fail early to to lack of ventilation.

* A 12V windless wired with approx 60' round trip if 2GA wire..

* Batteries installed in engine compartments

* Half million dollar boats with a single $40.00 bilge pump.

* 7 figure boats with bare copper wire and open terminal crimps.

* boats still lacking proper over-current protection at the batteries.

* bilges full of water

* engine and generator access only suitable for a small toddler




I did see lots of beautiful craftsmanship.. My favs..

Alerion 41
Rustler 36
Atlantic 47 / Chris White Cat..(actually sailed to the show from So. Chile in the roaring 40's....)
Gunboat - amazing construction technology
Outbound 46
Blue Jacket 40 - No exterior teak..


----------



## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Bought traveler and jib sheet controllers from garhauer.
Bought blue blades for our Air Breeze wind gen.
Bought some shock cord.
Bought some tea tree oil.
Bought CP from Raritan.
Bought a boatload of Painkillers at Pussers Fri.
Bought more Painkillers at Pussers Sat.
Had a great time so far.
Thanks Jeff H for the hospitality.


----------



## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Seems that rain at an outdoor/floating boat show is a good thing!... hard to believe that so many boats had leakage/pooling issues 'brand new'..


----------



## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

Faster said:


> Seems that rain at an outdoor/floating boat show is a good thing!... hard to believe that so many boats had leakage/pooling issues 'brand new'..


Great info here. I agree a rainy sailboat show is a good thing when concerned about water tightness. I will have to look at the gunboat all you making it seem like the best thing out there even if I am not a fan of cats.


----------



## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

I don't know 1/100 th of what Mainesail knows about boats but the Alerion 41 was my favorite boat at the show as well (I didn't climb on the ores on his list). Hopefully it sells well and then there will be a few on the used market when I'm ready to upgrade to the 'retirement boat'.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Just got back from the show, followed by dinner with a high school friend on her Mason 41 in Galesville.

I had been planning to blow off the show and go sailing today, but by 11 am it was clear that the weather was nastier than predicted, so we hopped in the car and drove 2 hours down to Annapolis. The shuttle bus dropped us off around 2 pm, so we had a short day.

The Outbound 46 is an incredible boat. Alerion 41 was very impressive looking, though excessive use of high gloss exterior wood will be real tough to maintain.

We're not planning any ocean passages, so a coastal cruiser for the bay is more our speed. In this regard, Hunter 37 was a very pleasant surprise. They certainly don't compare to the high-end bluewater boats, but as far as production boats go, they appear to have upped their game. David Marlow came up and introduced himself to me, and it is clear he has a lot of pride in this new boat and is determined to upgrade their materials of construction. The boat made a lot of use of real wood veneers on bulkheads (not the melamine fake woodgrain that Bene, Jenn, Hylas, etc. use), so in this respect they're keeping up with Catalina in interior quality. I was very impressed with the amount of storage space down below (2 hanging lockers in each berth area), and the head design was very nice. Cockpit storage seemed to be more limited due to full-width athwartships berth down below, but I did not get a chance to open the lockers by the perch seats, so maybe it was a little better than I realized. My wife really liked the galley storage, though it's not sufficient to provision for offshore. But for a coastal cruiser that re-provisions every several days, they pack a lot of interior space into 37'.

Out of time for now...


----------



## wavedancer38 (Sep 11, 2009)

We love boats with teak, so the Tartan was one of our favorites. We like a more traditional boat with a lot of solid wood, no veneers. If I hopped on the decl of the Beneteau, I could feel it give. yikes.


----------



## Quickstep192 (Jan 6, 2001)

I love boats with teak too, but where I used to see beauty I now only see work. I visited the J-95 (again) which seems to be the perfect boat for me. Wheel, inboard, huge cockpit, nice lines, light air performance; all the things I want in a boat, except for maybe the price......


The show seemed smaller than in past years. I went to the powerboat show last week; it seemed smaller too.


----------



## Missingyou (Aug 16, 2013)

Really didn't spend too much time browsing boats I could not afford. Why feed buyers remorse. Spent most time in the tents. A mixed bag with the vendors. 

Simrad- helpful tips on how to recover my radar after a software upgrade, as well as a few other tidbits. Also learned that my NMEA Triducer is only capable of simple depth reading and cannot work for Echo Sounding. It would be nice to visualize depth contours when skirting some of the shallow shoals here on the Chesapeake, and I do like to fish also. I have some rod holders on order. ;-)

Dometic. Not too helpful. Had a dispute over why my AC controller had a hot glue repair holding the back on. They blamed it on the boat builder. Lame since it's clearly a poor design on the retention clips. I did glean some insight from another AC installer as to why my salon unit doesn't hold temp, I need to check the sensor location. It's probably laying against a freon tube. 

Pro furl and Facnor have merged. They are pushing the Pro furl Top Down Furler over the Facnor. 

Got a decent deal on a Gill OS2, and some Helly Hanson life vests for my nieces. 

I really like the new Selden Double Fairleads for the continuos furling lines. The double cam cleat also looks interesting but wish I could try it first. 

Didn't get nearly enough time to play with all of the different snatch blocks to make a decision should I decide to buy some. 

There was a gentleman doing teak work but I seemed to have lost his card already. I have cockpit table envy. Suddenly my plastic fold down leafs look cheesy. 

I met a nice couple who charter out of the Bahamas. They are moving their operation from Nassau (crime) to an island I know well, Eleuthera. I hope to meet them again. 

The Neil Pryde guys were helpful in improving my understanding as to why my US Spar Mast is having issues when furling. There might not be anything in the mast to retain the lower most section of luff tape. They gave me a countermeasure. 

The tide was really really high today. ;-)

I got a pretty good education on folding/feathering/variable pitch props. I like the concept of the Autoprop, but for strictly a feathering prop the Autosense seems like a potentially better product versus the Maxprop. 

I was introduced to the Coast Guard 'Small Vessel Sea Service Form' for logging. 

And sales people will always be sales people when it comes to trying to convince you of why their product is better, even if they don't completely understand their product.


----------



## brokesailor (Jan 12, 2008)

I scoped out the Mantus Anchors. Light weight they determined I needed a 40 lb anchor. This anchor is huge!! I can't imagine putting that monstrosity on the bow.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Mason 44/43 on our short list. I wasn't aware Mason made a 41.



TakeFive said:


> Just got back from the show, followed by dinner with a high school friend on her Mason 41 in Galesville.
> 
> I had been planning to blow off the show and go sailing today, but by 11 am it was clear that the weather was nastier than predicted, so we hopped in the car and drove 2 hours down to Annapolis. The shuttle bus dropped us off around 2 pm, so we had a short day.
> 
> ...


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I am with you about the teak. Especially in the cabin where it is really not high maintainence at all.



wavedancer38 said:


> We love boats with teak, so the Tartan was one of our favorites. We like a more traditional boat with a lot of solid wood, no veneers. If I hopped on the decl of the Beneteau, I could feel it give. yikes.


----------



## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

This year’s show definitely felt scaled down, especially the number of boats displayed in water. The mid-level European production builders seemed to have maintained or increased their presence while the premium production builders’ presence was diminished or non-existent. 

The trade show also seemed to have more non-boating related vendors than ever and some of “usual suspects” must have either sat this one out or gone out of business. I didn't find a lot of great show specials this year and I learned that the “show special” price for one product I considered purchasing was actually higher than average retail. This is the first time we didn't buy a single thing at the show.

I'll also add that now that we're potentially in the market for an upgrade in boats and we let that fact slip to a few brokers it was amazing to see the salesmanship at work as far as trying to convince us to buy their boat, to get us to list ours sooner rather than later, and having an answer for every concern or issue we might have - even if that answer completely glossed over the original concern.


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

I liked the Aileron as well. I've also had an appreciation for the Tartan 4300. I'm not such a fan of the T4000, as it carries the beam all the way aft, twin helm stations and all that jazz.

I really liked the Seaward line of boats. They have some clever tricks, seem very well built, and are attainably priced for the "everyman". It seems that I'll have to retract some of my comments about new boats being priced totally out of reality.

The Seaward line of boats has a very traditional, non-sporty look. I doubt they're very fast, but they look like they would have decent upwind performance. The RK26 anchors the chainplates on top of the cabin, with very strong underpinnings inside the cabin. This gives a very tight sheeting angle. Combined with the modern keel, it should sail upwind nicely. Not sure what the SA to DISP ratio is though.

These boats seem tailor-made for the Chesapeake. The keel is a fully retractable bulb, that is electrically powered. You can dial the keel and rudder in at any depth, from 6 inches to 6.6 feet.

The 26 had an enclosed head and shower, and the cockpit was very roomy considering that it was wheel equipped. I think if I bought one, I'd ask for a tiller though.

I bought some boat-bits-

Garhauer vang, cabin lighting LED's, a Clamptite tool, name graphics for the stern, and I scored $380 worth of instruments for $145 at the Weems & Plath tent sale. I'm getting a tiller pilot, but at a better discount than anything the boatshow could provide.


----------



## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Garhauer Davits, lots of 2x blocks to re-lead my continuous furling line through, a IR camera and a bathtub full of pain killers.

Didn't step on a single boat.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

chef2sail said:


> Mason 44/43 on our short list. I wasn't aware Mason made a 41.


It might be a 43 or 44. I tried to look it up on the USCG Doc registry, but it's a victim of the govt shutdown right now.


----------



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

We went with our boys, and we were almost the exact opposite of Chuck - we were aboard 15-20 boats, and barely saw any of the vendor tents. I went with a specific shopping list, but only got 1 of the things on the list (refill for Kanberra). I'll have to order everything else online.

I was struck by a few things:
* How many boats require that you stand while steering. High foredecks/doghouses made it really tough for my wife to see forward unless she was standing.
* How nice center cockpit boats are, both because of the cabin layout and the visibility.
* How nice it would be to have a dedicated shower.
* How much bigger I'd have to go to get a dedicated shower.
* Build quality issues and leaks on even brand-new boats.
* Seaward's 46RK would be a great boat for us if we hit the lottery, in part because they address many of the issues above, though sometimes from a very different perspective. The pilot's station inside the cabin is a neat idea; the boat is like a cross between a conventional aft-cabin and a pilothouse. I really liked it a lot.

In the end, the thing that made me happiest was that I didn't see a boat there that was a better fit for our needs than our current boat. Yes, the 46RK would be great, but it's more boat than we need for 3-4 hour sails on the bay.


----------



## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

jimgo said:


> * How nice it would be to have a dedicated shower.
> * How much bigger I'd have to go to get a dedicated shower.


Pearson 365/7 from 1976-1983 has a great dedicated shower.


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Uh, the 26RK also had a dedicated shower.


----------



## TJC45 (Jul 10, 2013)

I didn't make this year's show. Still, some thoughts based on many years of attending this show:

I concur! Pussers is usally one of the best stops to make! 

For those who thought the show seemed scaled down - possible! The industry is still in recession. Exibitors have to make a financial cost/benefit decision. For those past exibitors, not getting on the right side of that equation over the past few years could have been a deal breaker. 

New boats that leak, squeak and have parts falling off - generally, wouldn't go too tough here. yes there is no excuse, but then again most complicated products have a similar quality level. Stuff happens! More so when that stuff has to be transported hundreds or even thousands of miles for display. 

Designs that aren't very salt worthy. Sail boat design took a turn years ago that put creature comfort ahead of the prime directive - sailing ability. Wide wider and wider still boats. The new new thing is big windows. Big windows and big waves don't play nice together. And, the corrosive environment these boats are used in probably is not going to play well with the materials or adhesives used for installation. it's one thing when you've got a minor window leak on the coach, it's another when it's your hull that's leaking. 

To those who went glad you had a good time! Classic plastic looking beter and better!


----------



## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

We're gonna try and go to this show next year. Stictly Sail Chicago is our annual show, but doesn't have the same appeal because of its smaller size, mid-winter Midwest winters, and no in-the-water boats. 

Sounds like the rainy weather for this year's Annapolis show provided some good test conditions for folks like MaineSail to spot leaks, puddles, etc.


----------



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

BubbleheadMd said:


> Uh, the 26RK also had a dedicated shower.


We didn't go on the 26. In looking at the pictures on their site, though, I'm not sure I'd quite call that a "dedicated" shower. It's right in the entryway! You'd still have to wipe down the floor.

That's not a knock on them, by any stretch. I understand the space issues, and the 26's solution isn't bad. But, much like the head in the aft cabin of the 46, it's just not quite what I'd like if the boat was something I'd be spending a LOT of time aboard.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> It might be a 43 or 44. I tried to look it up on the USCG Doc registry, but it's a victim of the govt shutdown right now.


was the companionway in the middle (44) or off to the side (43). 43 is my favorite boat. It wasnt a dark green one named Tortuga was it?


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

chucklesR said:


> Garhauer Davits, lots of 2x blocks to re-lead my continuous furling line through, a IR camera and a bathtub full of pain killers.
> 
> Didn't step on a single boat.


We have the 1"1/4" Garhauer Davits and love them


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

chef2sail said:


> was the companionway in the middle (44) or off to the side (43). 43 is my favorite boat. It wasnt a dark green one named Tortuga was it?


Companionway on the starboard side. The hull is white or maybe cream. The boat was recently renamed Firefly, docked at Pirates Cove.


----------



## sailvayu (Feb 3, 2013)

I spent 3 days at the show and here are some of my initial thoughts:
The boats seemed to come in 3 classes
Catamarans
Signal hulled catamarans
Traditional monos

The cats were all interesting but I just do not like the light weight construction. The floors creaked and I am not a fan of the Euro styling myself but it may work for others. I just do not like the hard cold feel to the interiors. I understand the reasons for this construction and in some cases the engineering is impressive but just not my style. The room and layouts were nice though. I like the trend to the forward cockpit I think this will be the coming thing with the cats in the future. 

Some of the builders are taking the cat interiors and doing the same thing to a wide hard chine mono. I really do not like this look and I think these boats will be uncomfortable at sea due to the flat sections. That said I have not sailed one yet so this is just an opinion. Nice to have all that room but I really question how these boats will be at sea. These and the cats seem to be primarily designed for the charter trade and for that they look great. They look like they would do well for day island hoping and nighttime partying. Large cockpits and good interior volume make for a good charter boat.

The traditional boats were nice. Almost all the boats had the teak replaced with cherry which is a good replacement. Some of the Euro built boats had African mahogany or teak. Prices were high but quality seemed good for the most part. Once again many lacked good sea cabins of sea berths. I saw some that had under counter refrigerators that opened only on the side port and starboard making them useless on one tack. Most had no berths that could be used at sea and few had good galleys for underway use. There were exceptions though and in general I really liked the Tartans. Of course the really high end like the Hylas were very nice. 

Interesting to see the transoms with fold down swim platforms and steps. A nice transition from the scoop transom. These will greatly improve boarding from a dinghy. 

The newer helms were nice as well allowing clean installations for chart plotters and such. 

Not a lot new in gear but I did not look much at electronics in general. Some interesting new safety gear though. 

I was put off by the number of salesmen and brokers that seemed more interested in their cell phones than the shopper. Many would not even look up as people came on the boats or into their booth. Some were downright rude when I asked questions. I have seen this at other shows but it seemed really bad this year. I hope sales are that good that they can treat shoppers with such distain. There were however many that were a pleasure to talk to so it is not all bad just surprised me how many acted like they really did not want to be there or could not be bothered.


----------



## jeremiahblatz (Sep 23, 2013)

I've only been sailing for a year, and didn't want ot buy anything, but I went down for a laugh. For engineer_sailor, the gunboat 60 is very nice inside, spacious cabins, teak with carbon fiber accents. Very euro and light feeling.

There weren't a lot of smaler boats there, but I really liked the look of the Tartan Fantail. Of course I just looked up the price >.<


----------



## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

I went to buy some Garhauer gear and talk to the Harken and RayMarine reps. Harken still has parts for my 30 year old traveler car! 
Went on boats in Miami in February, so I did not go aboard this time. Loved the Hylas 46. Thought the Benes were really cheap looking inside. The Catalinas had the best cockpit. The Jenneaus cut too many corners and I'm a single head kind of guy. Tartans were nice, but pricey, and the cockpit table was ugly. All in all, I felt good about spending a few bucks to have my boat compounded and waxed!


----------



## jppp (Jul 13, 2008)

Boy was I excited when I handed over the deposit check for the Blue Jacket. We seemed to spend hours going over option after option.....then I woke up on my cousin's couch and went to Chick & Ruth's for breakfast.


----------



## jppp (Jul 13, 2008)

I did get to look at a boat I was interested in. But it was down the road in a yard on the hard. Needs the rudder post and bearings reworked and cutlass bearing should have been changed 2 years ago. Water seeping out from bottom of mast and obvious signs of leakage around chain plates. Gotta love this forum. Without it I would have looked at this boat with ignorant bliss.


----------



## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

sailvayu said:


> I was put off by the number of salesmen and brokers that seemed more interested in their cell phones than the shopper. Many would not even look up as people came on the boats or into their booth. Some were downright rude when I asked questions. I have seen this at other shows but it seemed really bad this year. I hope sales are that good that they can treat shoppers with such distain. There were however many that were a pleasure to talk to so it is not all bad just surprised me how many acted like they really did not want to be there or could not be bothered.


Agreed.

We finally bought a *Sailrite *sewing machine, bout time! Met the owner and had some great conversation, we even discussed reopening a shop in Annapolis. We managed to get only 5 samples of *Kanberra *and one sample spray (Score ), I also purchased our annual 22 oz refil at the bargain price of $88  (Its great stuff, but damn $$). Spoke to the folks at *Sail Care* about how they mucked up my batten pockets again, they offered to fix it but I declined. Decided the *Sea Frost* BDX is the refer we'll be purchasing and installing sometime this off season, looking forward to not having to schlep ice around! Stopped by *Beta Engines* and thanked Stanley for the tickets to the show and chatted with the mechanic who assisted me with the engine install.

We didn't board many boats nor did we really inspect them in any great detail but did observe many short comings, often on some very pricey boats.

I find the *Seaward* 46 an odd but interesting design. The interior is just weird, cant exactly put my finger on what I like and dislike. I noted the sole has so many different levels that moving around that boat at sea would seem very dangerous? The cabinetry seems so much like an afterthought with the way they're installed, it doesn't flow and has a chopped up look.

The *Tartans* showed well this year, I believe that's because they seem to be one of the few there that incorporate innovation with that classic look/feel. The solid wood interiors were attractive after seeing so much veneers. I had never been aboard the 4100, nice yacht

After reading this thread I wish I had gone on the Blue Jacket, Alerion, and Outbound. Was *Hallberg Rassy* there?

Overall there was really nothing I would be willing to pay the money they want for these boats, even if I had it. Without a detailed knowledge of the boat itself, I would say the *Catalina 440 *is the best buy at the show for my taste and likes, but dollar for dollar I am still buying a older design of better quality...a refit Bristol, Mason, Hans Christian, HR, Malo, etc...

The best part of the show for me, getting the opportunity to meet *Maine Sail* and thank him personally for all he has contributed to this and other forums, and all he has so generously helped me with time and time again.  RC, great being able to chat and talk more than just boats, cheers.

BTW...not only did we get in with complimentary tickets, but I scored a free parking spot within 5 minute walk


----------



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

T37Chef said:


> The best part of the show for me, getting the opportunity to meet *Maine Sail* and thank him personally for all he has contributed to this and other forums, and all he has so generously helped me with time and time again.  RC, great being able to chat and talk more than just boats, cheers.
> 
> BTW...not only did we get in with complimentary tickets, but I scored a free parking spot within 5 minute walk


Chef,

Actually the pleasure was mine, after all you and your wife were buying...

Seriously, we need to get together again we think a lot alike.. There are great folks on these forums and they'e not just "cyber dudes" but real people who are really nice....


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

chef2sail said:


> Mason 44/43 on our short list. I wasn't aware Mason made a 41.


I found it on sailboatdata.com. Her boat is a Mason 44, mid '90s vintage, with the companionway on the starboard side.


----------



## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Agree with jimgo about helms. 
One 50' boat labeled "cruiser" had the big drop down transom and twin wheels. No place to sit at the helm except on the 6" wide edge of the transom. Fine for racing maybe but cruising? Similar setup on quite a few boats.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

xort said:


> Agree with jimgo about helms.
> One 50' boat labeled "cruiser" had the big drop down transom and twin wheels. No place to sit at the helm except on the 6" wide edge of the transom. Fine for racing maybe but cruising? Similar setup on quite a few boats.


Are you sure this boat didn't have a bench insert that goes in front of the drop down transom? Seems hard to believe that they wouldn't have that stowed away somewhere.


----------



## Dog8It (Jan 2, 2007)

Just out of curiosity visited a number of boats: Bavaria Vision 42, Catalina 385, Beneteau Oceanis 41, Jeanneau 409, Contest 42CS, Tartan 4000. I also admired from afar Amel, Oyster, Swan, Outbound, Hylas (no need to board any of those until I win the lottery). Surprisingly, the only one that really looked appealing to me (that is if I was in the market for a decent coastal / close to shore boat) was Catalina. I liked the cockpit layout, good access from the dinghy / water, decent access to winches if single-handing, throttle lever that can be reached while standing & steering.

One observation of interest was a proliferation of modern (usually European boats) with folding down transoms that usually are at least 1-2 feet above water when they are lowered. How does one got on the boat from the dinghy ? Or are the boats made primarily for the marina living and boarding from dinghy is not usually an area of concern ? (Not to mention lifelines that are usually a foot or two high and do not appear to serve any purpose).

Overall, any time I get to walk around a bunch of new boats is a good day in my book. If nothing else, makes me feel so much better about my boat and how lucky I am to have something that gets me out on the water.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Dog8It said:


> ...One observation of interest was a proliferation of modern (usually European boats) with folding down transoms that usually are at least 1-2 feet above water when they are lowered. How does one got on the boat from the dinghy ?


I chartered a Jenneau with drop-down transom last January in BVI. The height was even with the top of the inflatable dinghy. It wasn't too difficult to get in/out, as long as you didn't have too many painkillers before returning to the boat. uke


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

T37Chef said:


> Agreed.
> 
> We finally bought a *Sailrite *sewing machine, bout time!
> 
> ...


SailRite machine: Damn you. 

Seaward:
I also wasn't a fan of the RK46 but the smaller models were nice.

Yes, Hallberg-Rassy was there, with a 40' center cockpit. I liked it because it didn't look like a wedding cake. No matter what modern innovations have been incorporated, a teak deck is still a LOT of maintenance. The word that pops into my brain when I was on the HR40 was "confidence". Those things are built to withstand a direct, nuclear strike.:laugher


----------



## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

Maine Sail said:


> As one who works on boats every day I tend to look beyond the superfluous skin deep spit shine.
> 
> I saw some excellent craftsmanship and some stuff I just shake my head at.
> 
> ...


Never considered the advantage of attending a boat show when it's raining...


----------



## Missingyou (Aug 16, 2013)

T37Chef said:


> We finally bought a *Sailrite *sewing machine, bout time! Met the owner and had some great conversation, we even discussed reopening a shop in Annapolis.


I've been considering purchasing one as a winter project. I need a cover for my cockpit table and then want to tackle a full boat cover. They had a DVD. I'm curious as to how many others have ventured into this.


----------



## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Sent you a PM Missingyou


----------



## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

Missingyou said:


> There was a gentleman doing teak work but I seemed to have lost his card already. I have cockpit table envy. Suddenly my plastic fold down leafs look cheesy.


If it was an older fellow from Connecticut, he was probably from Teakflex Products, Teakflex,teak,wood,tables,cockpit,pedestal .

I talked to him as well about my cabin sole project. Looked like good stuff and his teak strips were about 1/8" thick, which is not bad these days.

-Argyle


----------



## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

Spent Saturday and Sunday at the show. First time doing the show proper. 

Had a busy schedule with vendors so we didn't get much of a chance to go aboard a lot of boats. Niether me nor my wife are particular fans of modern Euro-styled boats so we didn't bother too much there. I did want her to take a look at some modern cruisers so we boarded the HR that was there. Clearly a well built boat but Mrs. Argyle wasn't too impressed with the interior. She loved the Gozzards however. They seem to be well built boats as well and the way they lay it out so your V-berth is you sitting area at anchor makes a lot of sense. It also had the largest galley we'd ever seen on a ~40' boat. 


Also checked the Tartan 101, which happened to be owned by a guy I used to race against back in Cleveland. Small world. Looks like a great boat for racing. 

Otherwise, I spent most of the time tracking down various vendors and seeing what deals they had. 

I put a deposit down on some sails form Neil Pryde. The office is in Milford and the sail designer races in my club so I already had the boat measured and an initial quote in hand. Got 25% off by putting down the deposit during the show! Really looking forward to new sails. Still have the original canvas on my 1975 Downeaster.

Bought a new anchor. A Manson Boss 45 to replace my CQR 45. It's one of the few new style anchors that will fit on my bowsprit. Was told by the Mantus guy how my Manson boss was going to promptly kill me by dragging me into the rocks...  (never ends does it...) 

Bought a new Icom SSB from "the GPS store". The had a great deal on the unit. Wasn't sure I was going to buy that but couldn't pass up the deal. The mast is coming down this year and the backstay is getting replaced, so now is a good time as any I guess. 

Got a great deal on a Henry Lloyd jacket, less of a great deal (but still not bad) on a new set of Musto foulies. Always wanted a set of those and my old Gill stuff is falling apart now.

It was great meeting some Sailnetters there as well. MainSail, Chuckles, Chef, had a great time chatting with you guys at Pussers. Chris and Ed from S/V Freedom, don't remember if you are on SN or not, but if you are... Go Buckeyes!!!


----------



## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

Missingyou said:


> I've been considering purchasing one as a winter project. I need a cover for my cockpit table and then want to tackle a full boat cover. They had a DVD. I'm curious as to how many others have ventured into this.


I stopped by the Sailrite booth too to look at the items hanging on the back wall. I was asked if I had any questions and I just mentioned I already bought a machine, just haven't used it yet. I was told about the videos on YouTube which I was already subscribed to and have some ideas from there.

I did get 3/8" basting tape.


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Argyle38 said:


> Spent Saturday and Sunday at the show. First time doing the show proper. (Snip)
> 
> Bought a new anchor. A Manson Boss 45 to replace my CQR 45. It's one of the few new style anchors that will fit on my bowsprit. *Was told by the Mantus guy how my Manson boss was going to promptly kill me by dragging me into the rocks... * (never ends does it...)
> 
> (Snip)


You have got to be kidding. I know competition is fierce in business, but that's really an outrageous claim.

I've been jonesing for a new anchor as well, and the Boss was recommended to me by a well known world cruiser. I like the anchor, but I was stunned by it's huge size compared to the Supreme model of the same weight. I love the wide surface area of the Boss, which I consider an asset when anchoring in soup.

I simply do not have the room to stow a Boss anchor, so I guess it's the Manson Supreme for me.


----------



## Missingyou (Aug 16, 2013)

Argyle38 said:


> If it was an older fellow from Connecticut, he was probably from Teakflex Products, Teakflex,teak,wood,tables,cockpit,pedestal .
> 
> I talked to him as well about my cabin sole project. Looked like good stuff and his teak strips were about 1/8" thick, which is not bad these days.
> 
> -Argyle


Thankss!! Sounds like the same fellow.


----------



## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Argyle38 said:


> Was told by the Mantus guy how my Manson boss was going to promptly kill me by dragging me into the rocks...  (never ends does it...)


This is why I barely considered a Mantus anchor when shopping. The owner of Mantus makes pretty silly claims on forums like this one as well.

I like my Manson Supreme. Just don't be fooled into using the rock slot for anything but a secondary retrieval line and float. That slot is dangerous when used with the primary rode.


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Alex W said:


> This is why I barely considered a Mantus anchor when shopping. The owner of Mantus makes pretty silly claims on forums like this one as well.
> 
> I like my Manson Supreme. Just don't be fooled into using the rock slot for anything but a secondary retrieval line and float. *That slot is dangerous when used with the primary rode*.


Why?


----------



## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

BubbleheadMd said:


> You have got to be kidding. I know competition is fierce in business, but that's really an outrageous claim.
> 
> I've been jonesing for a new anchor as well, and the Boss was recommended to me by a well known world cruiser. I like the anchor, but I was stunned by it's huge size compared to the Supreme model of the same weight. I love the wide surface area of the Boss, which I consider an asset when anchoring in soup.
> 
> I simply do not have the room to stow a Boss anchor, so I guess it's the Manson Supreme for me.


I'm being a bit facetious but that was the gist of it. They basically had some videos up showing how the boss would never set (of course their models all set quickly). Then he had a mantus and a manson boss sitting next to each other on a table and was trying to demonstrate how the mantus would not flip over on it's back (even without the roll bar) while the manson did. Until he tapped the side of the mantus and it rolled over on to it's back.

I did buy one of those chain hooks that mantus sells, they look like a good design.

The reason that the slot is dangerous when used with the primary rode is if the wind or current shift and you ride up over to the other side of the anchor from where you initially set, the rode will now slide up to the point on the anchor designed remove the anchor from the ground below. This feature is only good for a short term anchoring in know-to-be foul areas or in areas with very consistent wind and/or currents, and also foul bottoms. I might end up drilling out a new hole in the shank, directly below the slot for my chain shackle, if the slot becomes a problem.


----------



## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

We went Saturday and Sunday. The show is definitely smaller the past few years. The good thing about the rain is most of the stroller crowd stayed home.

I picked up a new solar fan and some misc parts from Defender, Froli kits for our v-berth and aft-berth, some nautical jewelry for the wife, some discounted boat shoes, grab rails for the dodger and some odds and ends. 

The Garmin guys gave me a fix for an intermittent NMEA 2000 glitch.

I spent a fair bit of time with the parts folks from Catalina and the guys in the Selden booth. Catalina is selling a kit with a retractable sprit, and removable Doyle APS gennaker and furler. After I got all my questions answered the wife looked at me and said "we're getting it", so I think I just added another winter project to the list. I'll take measurements this weekend. I get to do the install and she gets to pick the colors for the sail :laugher

We did look at some boats with the idea that we're eventually going to something in the 38-42 range; but the more we upgrade our boat the further down the road that seems.

A conclusion we've come to is that we like aft cockpit boats over center cockpits. The center cockpits offer more space below, but living on a boat for days at a time it's amazing how many times you're up and down that damn ladder - especially when sailing and you're making snacks, sandwiches, grabbing drinks from the fridge...

For me the aft cockpit just seems to work better.


----------



## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Me said:


> That slot is dangerous when used with the primary rode





BubbleheadMd said:


> Why?


If there is a wind or current shift you will drag the anchor backwards instead of having it reset. The anchor is not at all effective when used backwards.

We learned this the hard way soon after getting the anchor. My first and second anchor drag experiences were with it, after setting the anchor well. I hadn't really thought of how that slot worked until that experience.

It might be okay for very short stays, but I don't trust it one bit.


----------



## mstern (May 26, 2002)

I've been to the Miami and Newport shows many times, but never the Annapolis show. Whenever I've mentioned it to the Admiral, she sort of scoffs as she has no intention of driving five hours to a boat show.

Anyway, my son now attends the University of Maryland, and this past weekend was Family Weekend. So my wife went down on Friday, and I followed on Saturday. When I spoke with her from the train on my way down, she said that she and my son had driven over to Annapolis from College Park to go to the big mall there. "Annapolis!", I practically shout, "the Boat Show is going on now!" "I can't believe you went to Annapolis during Boat Show without me!" Anyway, you can guess the rest of the story; we of course never made it to the show for the rest of the weekend. Sigh. And I am especially jealous because I couldn't make my annual trip to Newport this year because of a family wedding that weekend. I'm not complaining (really, I'm not; I'd rather see my son or watch my niece get married than go to a boat show), but I do really want to get to the Annapolis show at some point.


----------



## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Argyle
Do you need directions to Columbus, again?
X


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

mstern said:


> I've been to the Miami and Newport shows many times, but never the Annapolis show. Whenever I've mentioned it to the Admiral, she sort of scoffs as she has no intention of driving five hours to a boat show.
> 
> Anyway, my son now attends the University of Maryland, and this past weekend was Family Weekend. So my wife went down on Friday, and I followed on Saturday. When I spoke with her from the train on my way down, she said that she and my son had driven over to Annapolis from College Park to go to the big mall there. "Annapolis!", I practically shout, "the Boat Show is going on now!" "I can't believe you went to Annapolis during Boat Show without me!" Anyway, you can guess the rest of the story; we of course never made it to the show for the rest of the weekend. Sigh. And I am especially jealous because I couldn't make my annual trip to Newport this year because of a family wedding that weekend. I'm not complaining (really, I'm not; I'd rather see my son or watch my niece get married than go to a boat show), but I do really want to get to the Annapolis show at some point.


I guess you have to grab every opportunity you can to go to the_ shopping mall_. uke. My condolences.


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

How about Chris White Designed baby....
Atlantc 47 , she was there too!


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Thank you all who dropped by the booth at the show


----------



## mstern (May 26, 2002)

TakeFive said:


> I guess you have to grab every opportunity you can to go to the_ shopping mall_. uke. My condolences.


I didn't have to go to the mall; they went there while I was on the train making my way south. They came back to College Park to meet me. My son is like me: he doesn't care much for shopping, but he realizes that the weather is getting colder and he needs more than shorts and flip flops. Smart boy that he is, he takes the opportunity to have Mom pay for his clothes.


----------



## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

I’m not as down on the mid-level production monohulls, European or otherwise, as many of the posters on this thread. Apparently neither is most of the boat buying public considering their presence at the show and some recent changes in the dealer landscape. The longtime Island Packet dealer in Rock Hall is gone and the Pacific Seacraft dealer in Annapolis recently picked up Hanse/Dehler and brought four of those to the show this year in lieu of any PS. While a lot of the criticisms of mid-level production boats are accurate and fair, much of the negativity seems to be based on expectations these boats do not and were not ever intended to live up to. In truth, these boats meet the needs of 90%+ of the big boat sailors out there and are actually quite good for doing a much wider range of cruising than many people give them credit for. Yes, they have their idiosyncrasies but they represent reasonable compromises for a lot of people.

To the issue of woods, veneers, and laminates - in a world where teak and other hardwoods are easily $20-30 per board foot it’s not surprising to see a lack of solid woods on boats not in the upper end of the price and quality spectrum. Maybe at one time mid-level buyers valued finish level more, but that was also a time when it wasn't expected that the average boat would come with refrigeration, electronics, canvas, huge battery banks, shore power, electric windlasses, etc. Something has to give. Personally, as much as I love looking at boats with lots of beautifully crafted solid hardwoods inside and out, I have less than zero interest in maintaining exterior teak and have major concerns over the sustainability of tropical hardwood harvesting. Veneers and laminates are certainly not ideal but they can significantly reduce a boat’s cost and environmental footprint and, when properly designed and engineered, will look reasonably attractive and hold up reasonably well. Compromises!

As for the Sailrite machine, I don’t have one myself but have access to a friend’s machine and used it last winter to make a new bimini skin. Before doing that I started with smaller pieces. The bimini project was frustrating at times but I took things slowly and wasn't afraid to backtrack from mistakes. It turned out better than I expected though there are a few things I might change if I could do it over again and that I might alter as time goes on. One of the most challenging aspects was managing large amounts of fabric under the arm of the machine while keeping stitching straight. I wasn't up to the challenge of making a dodger from scratch though might consider it if replicating an existing dodger skin. For me the one caveat about the whole thing is that although I was able to do a good job, as an amateur I'll probably never know and master all the tips and tricks of the people who do canvas work day in day out.


----------



## BCC1 (Dec 18, 2011)

We sail the Chesapeake and a big trip is to the LIS. We look at boats we could conceivably afford that are designed for our purpose. We stay off the Gozzards, Oysters et al.

I actually am impressed with many of the production boats we looked at. Beneteau 41, 45, 48 & Jeanneau 469 were favorites. Well designed coastal cruisers and I thought the fit and finish was excellent for the price point.

OK, I went on the Seward 46RK. Twice. If I could, I would. Yep. Pushed my buttons.


----------



## Missingyou (Aug 16, 2013)

4arch said:


> I'm not as down on the mid-level production monohulls, European or otherwise, as many of the posters on this thread. Apparently neither is most of the boat buying public considering their presence at the show and some recent changes in the dealer landscape. The longtime Island Packet dealer in Rock Hall is gone and the Pacific Seacraft dealer in Annapolis recently picked up Hanse/Dehler and brought four of those to the show this year in lieu of any PS. While a lot of the criticisms of mid-level production boats are accurate and fair, much of the negativity seems to be based on expectations these boats do not and were not ever intended to live up to. In truth, these boats meet the needs of 90%+ of the big boat sailors out there and are actually quite good for doing a much wider range of cruising than many people give them credit for. Yes, they have their idiosyncrasies but they represent reasonable compromises for a lot of people.
> 
> To the issue of woods, veneers, and laminates - in a world where teak and other hardwoods are easily $20-30 per board foot it's not surprising to see a lack of solid woods on boats not in the upper end of the price and quality spectrum. Maybe at one time mid-level buyers valued finish level more, but that was also a time when it wasn't expected that the average boat would come with refrigeration, electronics, canvas, huge battery banks, shore power, electric windlasses, etc. Something has to give. Personally, as much as I love looking at boats with lots of beautifully crafted solid hardwoods inside and out, I have less than zero interest in maintaining exterior teak and have major concerns over the sustainability of tropical hardwood harvesting. Veneers and laminates are certainly not ideal but they can significantly reduce a boat's cost and environmental footprint and, when properly designed and engineered, will look reasonably attractive and hold up reasonably well. Compromises!


Agreed. It's like going to a car show and drooling over the wood and leather in a Bentley or the engineering in the new 7 Series Beemer, but most of us walk back to the parking lot and climb into our mass produced Toyotas and Hondas. It's what we can afford, complete with their fake wood trim and mouse fur headliners. I wish my Beneteau had at least real wood veneer or that there were not exposed screws in the sole, but the value proposition is just too compelling. I don't think it's going to get any better either.


----------



## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

I boarded an Oyster 50'er. The cabinetry was mostly trimmed with wood veneer tape!


----------



## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

xort said:


> Argyle
> Do you need directions to Columbus, again?
> X


I'll just follow the smell of victory. 

I bookmarked your blog. Pretty cool, and nice boat. Are you still in Annapolis?


----------



## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

4arch said:


> ...
> To the issue of woods, veneers, and laminates - in a world where teak and other hardwoods are easily $20-30 per board foot it's not surprising to see a lack of solid woods on boats not in the upper end of the price and quality spectrum. Maybe at one time mid-level buyers valued finish level more, but that was also a time when it wasn't expected that the average boat would come with refrigeration, electronics, canvas, huge battery banks, shore power, electric windlasses, etc. Something has to give. Personally, as much as I love looking at boats with lots of beautifully crafted solid hardwoods inside and out, I have less than zero interest in maintaining exterior teak and have major concerns over the sustainability of tropical hardwood harvesting. Veneers and laminates are certainly not ideal but they can significantly reduce a boat's cost and environmental footprint and, when properly designed and engineered, will look reasonably attractive and hold up reasonably well. Compromises!
> ....


Modern boats are also lighter and generally sail better than older boats. Keeping the weight down is today a major concern of any designer or shipyard. Those beautiful solid craft hardwood weight many times more than a top quality synthetic material. It is not only a question of money, top European brands that make very expensive cruisers don't use solid wood for money reasons but for weight reasons.

I found funny that while the Americans are not much on the teak decks but are still much in the hardwood solid wood interior, many Europeans like teak decks while a solid hood interior has become out of fashion.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

The veneers/laminates make sense for many reasons, I get that. Problem is they often look cheap, repair/refinishing is not possible or expensive. Also, how are those veneers going to look in 30 years? The Tartans for example, their solid hardwoods add a note of luxury IMO, mostly made of cherry if I am not mistaken.

I am not a fan of the Clorox bottle look, or no exterior wood or contrast at all. The Catalina 440 I mentioned earlier is bla looking. Do they offer some wood accents? They should if the buyer wanted to add it. White hull and white decks, some contrast would go a long way.


----------



## wavedancer38 (Sep 11, 2009)

PCP said:


> Keeping the weight down is today a major concern of any designer or shipyard. Those beautiful solid craft hardwood weight many times more than a top quality synthetic material. It is not only a question of money, top European brands that make very expensive cruisers don't use solid wood for money reasons but for weight reasons.
> 
> I found funny that while the Americans are not much on the teak decks but are still much in the hardwood solid wood interior, many Europeans like teak decks while a solid hood interior has become out of fashion.
> 
> ...


The heavier the boat,with more ballast, the harder it is to move in rough seas. Lighter boats will get tossed around like a feather. So you might go faster in lighter seas, but a heavier boat with a larger keel is more comfortable in heavy seas. Choose your poison.


----------



## wavedancer38 (Sep 11, 2009)

Overall, we felt there were so many more catamarans this year, than other years. Especially with the Vacation Basin. I would like to see some non production boats nots be weeded out by the Beneteaus and such. We need to make sure the smaller boat manufacturers are not pushed out.


----------



## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Argyle38 said:


> I'll just follow the smell of victory.
> 
> I bookmarked your blog. Pretty cool, and nice boat. Are you still in Annapolis?


I love the smell of napalm in the morning. Smells like...victory. Hail to; ah, never mind.

Thanks, got underweigh south this am


----------



## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

I have lots of friends with modern prod boats. They always admire the solid feel of our boat underweigh and stuff like solid stanchions. We can do 6+ knots in 9 knots, 60d true. That is a livaboard stuffed to the gills, 135 and a furling main. If you're a speed freak,, strip it all out. But for cruising? Will that 1/3 knot make that much difference?


----------



## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

wavedancer38 said:


> The heavier the boat,with more ballast, the harder it is to move in rough seas. Lighter boats will get tossed around like a feather. So you might go faster in lighter seas, but a heavier boat with a larger keel is more comfortable in heavy seas. Choose your poison.


A light fast modern boat well designed with an adequate ballast on a torpedo keel on the end of a foil with a considerable draft will not be tossed around in bad weather in big waves and big winds. It has all to do with power. The fast boat will be a much more powerful boat and will be able to put that power on the water. That will give it a powerful drive, exactly the opposite of being tossed around.

In what regards comfort I agree with you, for each its poison, on a slow heavy boat, a lot of motion but a slow one, on a fast boat less ample motion but faster and more violent (due to the speed).































Regards

Paulo


----------



## engineer_sailor (Aug 27, 2011)

*Annapolis Sailboat Show Observations & Notes*

I recall someone asking if Hallberg Rassey was at the show. HR had a single boat tucked away and not a big presence. It was an HR40 that was being sold by a broker. Unlike any other boat I saw, they had the engine access open. HR clearly thinks about repair underway. No need to remove the companionway stairs and you could climb in and around the engine and reach other critical fittings. All the equipment looked top notch down to the solid bronze through hulls. They were pushing/selling their aft cockpit 41.

Teak decks were nice but the thought of thousands of screw holes and/or glue killed some of the joy of walking on the teak deck barefoot in the rain.

Josh


----------



## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

*Re: Annapolis Sailboat Show Observations & Notes*



engineer_sailor said:


> Teak decks were nice but the thought of thousands of screw holes and/or glue killed some of the joy of walking on the teak deck barefoot in the rain.
> 
> Josh


No need to worry about screw holes, I don't think any builders fasten their teak decks mechanically any more...


----------



## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

I think it all boils down to a few items:

1) What type of sailing are you going to do (i.e., Racing, Coastal Cruising, Blue Water, Day Sailing)?

2) How much free time do you have on hand (i.e., Size of Boat, Wood Work, Maintenance)?

3) How much money do you have?

The Tartan interiors are gorgeous, but can you afford it?

Does one need a big heavy boat when coastal cruising?

The production boats do have a Chlorox bottle look--so what? What is the alternative if one has a limited budget? Would you prefer people to not sail or be involved with the lifestyle because they can't afford a Tartan, Sabre or some other high end boat?


----------



## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Yamsailor said:


> The production boats do have a Chlorox bottle look--so what? What is the alternative if one has a limited budget? Would you prefer people to not sail or be involved with the lifestyle because they can't afford a Tartan, Sabre or some other high end boat?


Not at all what I was saying. After what I saw at the show, this year and recently, I would be more inclined to spend my $$ on an older used "Tartan, Sabre or some other high end boat" of equivalent cost then a new Clorox bottle.


----------



## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

T37Chef said:


> Not at all what I was saying. After what I saw at the show, this year and recently, I would be more inclined to spend my $$ on an older used "Tartan, Sabre or some other high end boat" of equivalent cost then a new Clorox bottle.


If one is in an all cash position then I tend to agree with you. However if one has to finance, it is a lot easier to get financing for new or newer boat than something that is more than 10 years old.

More often than not, people need to finance the boats.


----------



## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Yamsailor said:


> I think it all boils down to a few items:
> 
> 1) What type of sailing are you going to do (i.e., Racing, Coastal Cruising, Blue Water, Day Sailing)?
> 
> ...


I think you should start wit this one

*3) How much money do you have?*

The rest is depending on it. Any boat is better than no boat

Regards

Paulo


----------



## ImASonOfaSailor (Jun 26, 2007)

I think there needs to be more boats that people like me can afford! Dont get me wrong i love to see the Massive catamrans and i know i can sail the Hell out of them! But really i cant afford that now and probally ever! the one i loved was the Outremer 5X it was accross from the Gun Boat! Other then that there were alot of cats, i do believe i didnt see all boats! Had to go vender shopping!


----------



## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

T37Chef said:


> Not at all what I was saying. After what I saw at the show, this year and recently, I would be more inclined to spend my $$ on an older used "Tartan, Sabre or some other high end boat" of equivalent cost then a new Clorox bottle.


I don't disagree with you in principle but in our shopping we're finding the older the boat, the more likely it is to have age and deferred maintenance related issues no matter what the initial build quality and we're not looking for a project. A lot of the component parts like sails, deck hardware, canvas, wiring, tanks, hoses, and engines are from the same vendors across many brands and their life expectancy is likewise the same whether installed on a Hinckley or a Hunter. We're becoming less focused on buying a particular brand than we are on buying a previous owner who stayed on top of maintenance and upgrades. We're willing to accept a boat that has bleach bottle characteristics if it gets us the gear and maintenance levels we want at a price that fits our budget. I think that's the trade off a lot of buyers weigh out and ultimately there's no right or wrong answer.


----------



## bjung (Apr 8, 2009)

We were happy to see some very new and interesting boats.
The XP 44 was very impressive (besides the typical X yachts quality, I really liked the clean, bright interior, with foam cored fiberglass cabinets ). It was nice to see the all new Contest 42CS, allthough ventilation is seriously lacking, the Allures 45 with solid build and smart solutions for cruising and the Dehler 38. I had a chance to sail the Dehler 38 after the show, which propably made it my favorite. Wow ! What a sweet sailing boat. In 6 to 8 kts, she would go upwind at around 6 kts, downwind around 8 with an asymmetrical. Nice deck layout for singlehanding also. I would have liked to see more wind and a nasty chessie chop, but her light wind performance was impressive. Down below, quality is above average and features some nice solutions.
We were really looking forward to seeing the new Bene 38, but were not as impressed as we had hoped. The freeboard was massive and about the same as the 50 footer next to it, which gave it a clumsy, boxy look. We liked the open interior, but found the usual Beneteau finish flimsier than we would like.
The Hanse 415 was one of the upsides this year. The interior quality, that we found completely lacking last year had been nicely improved, and had a more solid feel.
As usual, a fun show to visit...


----------



## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

xort said:


> Argyle
> Do you need directions to Columbus, again?
> X


Funny Ed, no one goes TO Columbus, the ask for directions around or FROM Columbus (or anywhere in ohio).


----------



## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

bjung;1107945... said:


> I had a chance to sail the Dehler 38 after the show, which propably made it my favorite. Wow ! What a sweet sailing boat. In 6 to 8 kts, she would go upwind at around 6 kts, downwind around 8 with an asymmetrical. Nice deck layout for singlehanding also. I would have liked to see more wind and a nasty chessie chop, but her light wind performance was impressive. Down below, quality is above average and features some nice solutions.
> ....


You were not the only one impressed. Recently the readers and testers of Voile magazine made it the Magazine boat of the year. For French to select a German boat, it has to be very good. The Oceanis 38 was one of the boats tested. All the boats were tested at the same time, with the same wind and conditions. Another boat that impressed was the cheap Varianta 37 that was faster than the Oceanis 38 and the Bavaria 37.

Regards

Paulo


----------

