# Sharing a boat



## ekhar (Jun 6, 2001)

Anyone can advise on problems that may arrise in co-owning a boat? (Aside from agreeing on sailing schedule) Anyone has lived thru it?


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## Lahr (Jun 4, 2001)

I''ve owned five sailboats over 30 years with a co-owner. It can work extremely well but you need a co-owner that is every bit as responsible and flexible as you with comparable experience and sailing interests. Among the zillion subtle point are the notion that green eyeshade accounting is not productive, that "rounding off" is the byword whereby major expenses are shared and minor ones less an issue. You''ll use the boat 80% of the time you want for %50 of the cost.Always leave the boat in "charter quality" condition for your co-owner and vice versa. A terrific situation with the right person. Jack


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I owned my current boat with a partner. He lost his job after the first season, just as his wife became pregnant with thier second child. ALL of the work and expense associated with owning a boat became mine. I could never have expected help from him in any way due to his circumstances. He eventually "gave" us his share of the boat in exchange I paid his note after the second season. He NEVER used the boat. It worked out well for me but obviously was a disaster for him.Things happen that are hard to anticipate which can be very adverse to the partnership. Try to spell as much out in a written agreement as possible including circumstances as above.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I have a minor partner in my current boat but we have not had it long enough to really tell yet how it will work in the long run. I have known my partner for close to 10 years and been in a variety of deals with him. I have looked at the deal as one in which I will be using the boat more than my partner and plan to do most of the work on the boat. It is somewhat understood that at some point I will probably end up buying my partner out and that he will use the boat on a fairly limited basis. On the other hand he has reasonably liberal use of the boat for about the annual price of a week long charter of a 38 footer on the Chesapeake Bay. 

Jeff


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## halyardz (Sep 2, 2000)

Jeff,I wish you luck on that partnership. But few I''ve heard of actually run smoothly. I knew my former business partner for years before we joined forces. It wasn''t the 100 times the partnership worked smoothly that caused us to part ways, it was the three times it didn''t.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I thought pretty hard about doing this partnership. I decided a few things were required to make it work. First of all, from being in several previous partnerships, I know that the only way that a partnership works is if you have two people who really don't care whether they or their partners are getting more than or giving less than their fair share. 

The second piece of this is that from my perspective, as the significantly majority owner and planning to own the boat for a long time, I fully planned to upgrade and restore the boat over time in a way that makes sense for my long term plans. I discussed this with my partner before hand and it was agreed that I can proceed with these improvements and my percentage of equity would increase in proportion to each of my capital expenditures in the boat. 

We also came up a simple formula to address operating expenses and as part of our agreement and accounted for in this formula for dividing operating expenses, I am doing the labor for all normal maintenance that I have the ability to normally perform, which does not bother me since the boat is stored at my house and I would have wanted to do the maintenance on the boat if I owned the boat outright anyway.

Lastly, we have a clear agreement that covers pretty much any conceivable contingency including a fair ''buy/sell'' clause. 

Another component of this decision is that I am also restoring a house on the water and so really can't use the boat as much as I would like in the next couple years. Having a partner has greatly reduced my loan costs. 

I am quite optimistic. We shall see. 

Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

If the boat is anything substantial, I would spend the money and hire an attorney to specify almost every financial/legal nuance. I would think such a document would have the effect of reinforcing the seriousness of each parties responsibilities. 
I briefly considered a couple of partnership offers, but a handshake doesn''t do it for me. People change real quick when the checkbook comes out! Especially friends and family!

Art


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## Lahr (Jun 4, 2001)

All things being equal, a newer boat raises fewer unexpected maintenance/expense problems than an older boat, so this may be an attractive issue for the prospective partners to consider.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

That is very good advice about a clear and well defined agreement. I started out with an agreement that had been written by a lawyer who was also in a boat partnership. After editting it, I had a friend who is a lawyer and who I had helped find a boat take a look at it as a favor to me. He had caught some boneheaded language that would have been very confusing if we had to actually rely on it.

Jeff

Jeff


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## Lahr (Jun 4, 2001)

Jeff--could you post your agreement, duly edited? Potential partnerships might benefit. As you can tell from my postings, I''m a True Believer in such partnerships but the partners have to the the Right Temperment,Similiar Experience, Goals, Sense of Responsibility, and as you suggested, "not overly concerned" about precise measurement of this 50-50 relationship. In my partnerships, I primarily dealt with all the maintenance, but that was no problem because I enjoyed it. Jack


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

The partnership agreement would make a very long post (even for me). If you want a copy, email me and I would be glad to send an blanked out copy. 

Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Jeff_H and Others,

My wife brought up a very good point about partnerships, one which hadn''t given much thought. A PARTNER(S) SHOULD CASH ONLY, NO BOAT LOAN. 

If a partner needs to borrow money to participate, they can get a second mortgage, personal loan, etc.. That way the boat title is clean, no lien holders. If a partner falls on hard times (marriage, divorce, ENRON stock holder, etc) the other partner(s) aren''t left holding the bag on his payment. The boat expenses after his point of insolvency could be deducted from his buyout share or boat sale proceeds.

Any thoughts?


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

As much as that sounds like common sense, I think that the reality is that most people need a loan to buy a boat even with a partnership. The partnership contract should address that issue but my best advice is if you have to worry about the partner making his loan payment then you probablyhave the wrong partner or you are the wrong partner because can''t afford the risk. 

Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Most people do need a loan to buy a boat... my suggestion is to borrow the money elsewhere, and not encumber the boat.

Art


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I''ve been in a boat partnership for the past five years and overall it has worked well. A few bits of advice for anyone considering one:

1) Take the time to write out a partnership agreement. It ensures that everybody is on board with regard to expectations and responsibilities. What one of the previous respondents said about leaving the boat in bristol condition is important to the partnership working well.

2) If you don''t have crew or don''t like sailing alone your partners can be good sailing buddies - so compatibility is important.

3) Make sure your desired uses are compatible, if one partner wants to take the boat cruising for six months and the others see it as a weekender, you''ve got problems. Talk about these issues before you join the partnership.

4) Make sure your partners are financially solid. In our partnership we agreed that we would all put up cash and that no one could put up their share of the boat as security on a loan. 

Barry


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*The partnership agreement*



Jeff_H said:


> The partnership agreement would make a very long post (even for me). If you want a copy, email me and I would be glad to send an blanked out copy.
> 
> Jeff


Does Jeff or anybody else have such partnership agreement that you don't mind to share with me?

Thanks a lot

Dan


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*The partnership agreement*



Jeff_H said:


> The partnership agreement would make a very long post (even for me). If you want a copy, email me and I would be glad to send an blanked out copy.
> 
> Jeff


Does Jeff or anybody else have such partnership agreement that you don't mind to share with me?

Thanks a lot

Dan email:[email protected]


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

amthesailor—

Since you're new to Sailnet, I'd highly recommend that you read the post that is linked to in my signature. 

Also, check dates on posts, as this thread is over 8 years old, and was dead until you revived it. 

Finally, if you want a copy of the partnership agreement, I would highly recommend you PM Jeff_H directly. However, you will need 10 posts to PM him.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sailingdog,

Thanks for your reminding. I was fortunate to find Jeff, who was kindly enough to have sent me a copy of the said agreement. Isn't that amazing? 8 years, this posting was 8 years old, I did not even realize it until you told me so. I hope all the folks here at this website all have had a great time sailing in that 8 years including you sailingdog.

take care, folks! Have a great sailing time!


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## lancer63 (May 9, 2010)

great discussion; very helpful for someone just entering a new partnership


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## BigEasy1 (Oct 9, 2002)

Do most recommend forming an LLC for the boat partnership?
Also, is there difficulty obtaing insurance for the partnership?

David


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## BigEasy1 (Oct 9, 2002)

What kind of scheduling arrangements do you use to to ensure that all partners have equitable sailing time? Are there any online services that are availble to facilitate scheduling?


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## Shipislandpirate (May 25, 2009)

AHOY.....Jeff....Could you please email me a copy of the Generic Partnership Agreement..It would be greatly appreciated....

Fair Winds....

John


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## trailblazer1229 (May 27, 2009)

BigEasy1 said:


> What kind of scheduling arrangements do you use to to ensure that all partners have equitable sailing time? Are there any online services that are availble to facilitate scheduling?


Google calendar. Make it public and you and your parnter can see what each other is planning.


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## Qben (Oct 18, 2009)

I'm going to second the Google calendar suggestion. I have loaded a perpetual shift calender for both myself and my partner, so we always know when the other is working. This is incredibly useful because he is a police officer and I'm a firefighter, so we both have schedules that change every week (thought it repeats about every 2 months). There is a seperate overlay (calendar) for "boat time" and we just fill it in on a first come/first served basis, with a spirit of cooperation of course, and trying to work around each other's work schedules and vacation plans as much as possible.

Changes to the calendar can be made by either party and are immediatly viewable from any internet connected computer.

On the partnership subject, I couldn't be more happy with it. It's all about finding the right partner and I place a considerably higher value (both satisfaction and monetarily) on the partnership than I do on the boat. I doubt I will ever own a boat by myself unless it's after I retire and I want to be gone for months at a time.

Qben


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## klcmass (Jul 19, 2010)

Jeff or amthesailor - Would you please send me the agreement as well? As this is my first post I can't send private messages or insert an email. Ugh! klcmass is the email and it is at yahoo.com  Thanks!


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## BenBo (Apr 15, 2011)

*Partnership Agreement*



Jeff_H said:


> The partnership agreement would make a very long post (even for me). If you want a copy, email me and I would be glad to send an blanked out copy.
> 
> Jeff


Jeff,
Can you send your Partnership Agreement that you refer to in you comment above. I recently put a deposit on a 1984 Ericson 30 Plus and have a partner in mind who has helped me for 7 years with cleaning, waxing, maintenance and installing improvements on my current boat, a Cal 25. I'd like to see how you have addressed the various situations that can arise with joint boat ownership.

Ben Bo


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## OutnAboat (Nov 20, 2008)

*looking for Partner*










We are both looking for a partner for our Lagoon 440 catamaran and wondering how to make our short list? How do you know in advance if you are all going to get along during a stressful time, when you can't tell this about someone until its too late and you're in a stressful moment - you can't trun around and say "OK" its time to review our choice... Ha Ha ist too late.

Anyway happy to see these discussions here as we go thru the partnership search.

Thanks Riitta + Connor


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Is this a record. A thread brought back to life twice? 

Well, since it's back and won't go away, I'm in with some comments.

A partnership is always the first ship to sink. The relevant language is how you get out, not in. More importantly, only accept a partner that you are confident has the financial means to take you out. Never take a partner because you couldn't afford the boat on your own or if you are not able and willing to sell it at a discount to dissolve the partnership. That is the risk of having a partner. Only take a partner because the risk of it going badly, is compensated for you possibly being able to sail at half cost. They aren't bad, just be a Boy Scout and Be Prepared.


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## MSISLANDER32 (Jun 9, 2010)

I am currently in a partnership and it works great. We deposit 250 each into a checking account in our name solely for boat expenses and slip fees. All repair fees and parts required come out of that account for a 50/50 share. It does not matter who broke it or who it stopped working for we pay for it. We also call on each other when there is good sailing weather.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

My wife and I were in a partnership with my brother and his wife when we got our boat 4 years ago--first time for all of us. We bought them out last year, and it was probably a year too late. At the beginning, the only principles we stated were: 2-year commitment, and we split all expenses.

Scheduling was never our problem. What we ran into was diverging levels of interest as we all learned what it meant to own a 20-yr-old boat. I was most involved and did virtually all the work, happily for the most part, but that meant I had the best idea of what needed to be done, which wasn't always so obvious to the others. This was magnified after the 1st year when the other party sailed only twice in a season.

I definitely agree about having a buy-sell agreement in your setup. This isn't a pessimistic thing, but merely a recognition that people change, interests change, understanding changes. One person may fall in love with the boat, the other might think it's just a boat.  

Keep the communication lines open, have regular "state of the union" meetings. Recognize that the feelings of ownership might be unbalanced--especially in a case like the poster who already owns the Lagoon. Will the partner feel like a partner or a visitor?


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## tsmith409 (Feb 28, 2002)

I have an Acadia 25 (diesel trawler) in Newport RI. I would love to sell a 50% share
I live Colorado and can't use her very often
If any one's interested check out the boat at Acadia.com
And lets talk


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## bviKetch (Mar 28, 2011)

*Shared Boats*

I have two very different experiences with shared boats. Both have worked well, but they are entirely different.

- I am one of several owners of a classic Dickerson 41' ketch that we keep year round in the British Virgin Islands. It is professionally maintained and kept in excellent condition. We have a formal agreement and I act as the business manager, billing the co-owners for their proportionate share of expenses. We are in the process of restructuring to add additional owners and expect to convert to an LLC (if this sounds interesting, check our website at BviKetch.blogspot.com).

- I share an old Catalina 22 with a friend that we keep at mooring near his summer cottage on Cayuga Lake. We shared the modest upfront investment, do maintenance together, and split whatever costs we incur. There is no written agreement and if there were a problem we would sell it or I would walk away.


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## Litehart (Nov 26, 2010)

*Copy of agreement*

At the risk of overloading the request for a copy of the co-ownership agreement mentioned within this thread, could a copy be sent to me? If so, thank you in advance.

Treasure Island FL
Boatless except for a Grady White 209
jkwright60 @ g maildotcom

P.S. We live on the water just South of Clearwater FL. Should you find yourself passing by and need a slip to use as you pass by (with 30amp, filtered water, and safe harbor), get in touch. We have found it a great way to meet new friends.


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## oceanconcepts (Nov 16, 2006)

I'm half of a casual, very informal partnership with our neighbors that has gone on successfully for ten years. It's a little different from what most are referring to, though. Our motivation was mainly in that being two very busy families with professions, businesses, and kids, we had limited time for using a boat- but we live almost on the water. A partnership was a way to have a boat available, without feeling that it would own us. Our boat is an older 33' Scandinavian racing design and is used mostly as a day-sailer. It doesn't represent a very large financial commitment for either of us, so the pressure is minimal. We refer to it as our "neighborhood boat", and it gets used as well now by our somewhat grown kids. We frequently sail together, my partner owns the slip (a financial commitment), I do probably more maintenance and repairs. 
A relaxed attitude helps, and as someone said, valuing the partnership more than the boat. Our motivation wasn't financial, but specifically that sharing the boat increased its value for us.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

oceanconcepts said:


> .....A relaxed attitude helps, and as someone said, valuing the partnership more than the boat.......


This is excellent advice.

Unfortunately, most just can't pull it off. People also change their opinions of others over time. One couple gets divorced (on average that's more likely to happen than not) and suddenly you can't get along. Financial circumstances can change outside one partner's control as well.

Best to be positive but prepared.


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## Litehart (Nov 26, 2010)

*Excellent Yacht Partnership Book*

Back in 1981 Dexter and Paula Odin wrote a short book entitled Yachtsman's Legal Guide To Co-Ownership. Odin is a practicing attorney in the Maryland area (at least he was practicing when I hunted him down about two years ago). The book is well written with a thorough explanation of the many clauses within the co-ownership agreement. While the book is now over 25 years old (and lacks some more recent legal structures such as an LLC), it is nevertheless a great source for structuring a group ownership with a focus on boating. The ISBN is 0-8286-0087-0 and possibly could be found by doing a Google search. The slant of the book is one of "comradship" but guided by a well-structured legal document.

Here is an example of the document with paragraph 1 under PURPOSE: _"With implicit trust in each other, a common appreciation of the sea, and a desire to unite in the ownership of a pleasure yacht, we enter into this Agreement to provide a better understanding of our mutual expectations and a greater awareness of our fiducial obligations to one another."_


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## falconxp (Jan 6, 2011)

Taught sailing at USC and shared my 8 boats with 200 students.
Key was if you broke it you fixed it within 48 hrs or I arranged for repain and the student paid for it.
I expeced the other to do nothing and the students normally met my expectations so I provied a service at 1/3 the commercial rate and was happy.
students were vere very honest and greatful. I promised a little and they took a lot and all was well. Capt Bob


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## nickpapa (Sep 1, 2009)

*Partners agreement*

You can find a UK version of the agreement as well as good advice in the yours2share fractional ownership, boat share, horse share, car club, landshare site. They use a Royal Yacht Association drafted agreement to start with. The point about not having any lien on the boat is very important because it avoids surprises to the remaining partner(s).


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Litehart said:


> Back in 1981 Dexter and Paula Odin wrote a short book entitled Yachtsman's Legal Guide To Co-Ownership. .....[/I]


18 available used on Amazon from $1.89 when I typed it in. How could one not read it.

Amazon.com: Yachtsman's Legal Guide to Co-Ownership (9780828600873): Paula Odin, Dexter Odin: Books


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## bviKetch (Mar 28, 2011)

Thanks for the info. I just purchased a used copy for $5.86 including shipping.


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## romanovs (May 16, 2011)

*Boat Partnership Agreement*

Hello Amthesailor!
Will you be so kind and email me also a copy of the partnership agreement? I hope it all worked well for you!
THANK YOU very much for your time and efforts! I appreciate it a lot!
Warm wishes,
Lucia



amthesailor said:


> Sailingdog,
> 
> Thanks for your reminding. I was fortunate to find Jeff, who was kindly enough to have sent me a copy of the said agreement. Isn't that amazing? 8 years, this posting was 8 years old, I did not even realize it until you told me so. I hope all the folks here at this website all have had a great time sailing in that 8 years including you sailingdog.
> 
> take care, folks! Have a great sailing time!


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## romanovs (May 16, 2011)

*Boat Partnership Agreement*

klcmass,
Did you get a copy of the partnerhsip agreement?
If "yes" would you be so kind and email me also at luciaromanov (at gmail.com).
THANK YOU VERY MUCH for your time and efforts!
I appreciate it!



klcmass said:


> Jeff or amthesailor - Would you please send me the agreement as well? As this is my first post I can't send private messages or insert an email. Ugh! klcmass is the email and it is at yahoo.com  Thanks!


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