# Got a new Sail Boat trying to Identify it



## nerys (May 2, 2010)

Last year I scored a really nice find on craigslist. I got a 27ft sail boat with trailer for $150

I took it out of the water myself so I know it floats  this past week I just scored a 9.9 outboard for it so I am hoping to get it wet this summer.

I am still trying to find the title (its around here somewhere) but I know it was no help in identifying it. This monday I hope to pull it out a bit so I can access the rear and see if it has a Hull Number of some sort on the back.

hoping maybe you folks can help identify it.

Here is a picture of it as well as a link to more pictures. My first order of business is to free up the keel 

My Sailboat


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

I don't have any idea what kind of boat that is, but if you have a title for that trailer I would buy it. Near Seattle?


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

luger tradwinds? Looks close to what you have Chris! distintive raised sides of cabin and coamings.

1972 Luger Tradwinds sailboat for sale in Arkansas


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Damn Denise, you are good! 
Sure looks like the Luger Tradewinds as the port lights match exactly. 

Nerys,
You really need to get that center board working as it will really help your boat sail upwind. 
I have a center board model 27' Tartan sailboat from 1967 so I know a thing or two about older boats. Some things you should check on are the chain plates, your standing rigging wires and soft spots on the decks if it was cored with wood or plywood. If all of these things are fine then you got a sail boat for a good price. Having a trailer is a nice feature if you have the vehicle to pull it.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd also recommend you read the *Boat Inspection Trip Tips* thread I started, as it will help you determine what areas of the boat need work.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Thank you Caleb! gotta love the internet!

Oh My Gawd! Chris your gonna love this! 










Hull Type: Swing Keel Rig Type: Fractional Sloop
LOA: 26.92 LWL: 23.25 Beam: 8.00
Draft (max.) 6.75 Draft (min.) 2.25 Listed SA: 235
Displacement: 2800 Ballast: 800


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

You GO girl! Rock, roll, yaw, pitch and howl!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Nicely done Denise.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

thank you SD! Looks like some kinda pop top to. That could be one sweet boat when it's fixed up. shallow draft to with the keel up.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Shallow draft with the board up means she can go gunkholing pretty well.


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## nerys (May 2, 2010)

yeah it really did sit pretty shallow in the water has to be less than 4ft maybe 3ft

Thats amazing you found so much so fast! is there a higher res copy of that line drawing? that looks very cool! and it DOES look like my boat!

its weird that picture looks way smaller than my boat but the interior looks bigger than my boat. Freaky must be a perspective thing.

The line drawing at first glance appears to be a dead ringer!

as far as I can tell its 100% fiberglass except for the keel (metal) and the tiller rudder and front whatever it is? Name is on the tip of my tongue. Otherwise everything appears to be fiberglass.

Clearly I assume whatever interior it use to have was wood. It no longer exists. But thats ok Don't need one to sail 

as soon as that keel moves the motor is mounted and the lights are install this thing is getting wet.

2800 pounds seems about right. I was thinking around 3k plus the trailer.

If I can make an interior that looks HALF that nice I am going to be very very happy 

tager. Why in the world would I sell the trailer that I am "USING" for my boat? how would I move it? Plus I am literally clear across the entire continent from you  I am 45 minutes from the atlantic ocean you are ON the pacific ocean or damned close to it


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## nerys (May 2, 2010)

another bonus of getting the keel of if that works out is I won't have any issues climbing into it on the trailer. The keep is more than twice as heavy as I am. If it can hold the boat and keel it sure as frack can hold the boat and me minus the keel 

that does infuse a new sense of respect though. 800 pounds. Nothing to laugh at to remove or install. Gonna have to figure out how the heck I am going to LOWER something that heavy and more importantly how will I PUT IT BACK once its ready to reinstall. Gonna have to think about that real good 

makes me want to try and get it to move before I attempt to remove it.


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## Bump (Aug 23, 2004)

The wood referred to in CalebD's post referred to the usual practice to "sandwich" end grain balsa or plywood between layers of fiberglass on the deck. This method created streghth and saved weight. Trouble is if water gets in their it rots and creates soft spots or even large aresa of softness in the deck. This can be very problematic esp around things like chainplates, stantions, cleats or other deck hardware. You do not want a chainplate to ley go in 15 knot winds while on a lee shore. Tapping around these areas with a plastic hammer or screwdriver can help detect these spots, they will sound like a thud rather than a ping.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Lugers were sold as kit boats. They were sold in a variety of levels of completion, and with a whole range of component packages and options. Build quality from the factory was pretty dodgy. Some Lugers were finished very nicely, while others were cobbled together in pretty scary ways. 

I have sailed on some of the Lugers but I do not specifically recall sailing on the 26. In a general sense, Luger was trying to produce boats that were really cheap to buy and were aimed at the backyard boat builder. My impression when I have been around these boats is that there were a lot of compromises and as a result Lugers did not sail as well as many trailersailers of that era (and trailer-sailers generally do not sail as well as boats with fixed keels and whose hullforms, keels, and rigs are not compromised to make trailering easier.) 

I would suggest that no matter what you do with the boat, its value will be limited. People are often tempted to 'restore' and 'upgrade' a new-to-them boat. It is often tempting to spend a bunch constructing an interior and adding all kind of amenities, If you feel that you must do this kind of thing, I suggest you try to limit your expenditures. 

Still and all boats like these have their purpose, and if you can get the swing keel to operate properly and reliably, and the rig is intact and can be used safely, you have bought a lot of boat for the money.

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## tomandchris (Nov 11, 2009)

With some elbow grease and money you have a nice boat there. The trailer, even if Tager does want it, is a little iffy as rigged. It would be fine if you are leaving it in a lot close to the water, but if you are going to move it anywhere on a highway, look at some trailers meant for the work and do some adapting.

A quick stop, or heaven forbid running into anything, and your boat will become a torpedo. Having seen the aftermath of that type of accident I am real careful about how things are tied down on my trailers. 3000 lbs. can do some serious damage to the back of your head!


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## nerys (May 2, 2010)

oh yeah. I plan to make hull forms to cradle the boat better. Full Nose gear to for the boat to prevent it ever sliding forward. (torpedo'ing was a definite CONCERN of mine when trailering it home) I was AMAZED it did not move.

I also plan nose gear for the keel as a secondary stop point (will also making "loading" it onto the trailer easier as it will self align better as I bring it out of the water)

I am broke poor peniless so spending tons of money is never going to happen. BUT I am real good at getting stuff free on Craigslist or very very cheap)

Already got some hard wood "flooring" I am eyeing for the floor and interior of the boat  I will build it all myself on the cheap. Besides critical stuff all the cosmetic stuff likely won't cost me more than what I paid for the boat. ie couple hundred bucks tops. I could not afford more anyway.

I am not worried about how efficiently it sails or anything like that as long as it DOES sail. so what if I get there a few knots slower than a better boat. I want to sail to relax. Not to race  hehe

I do plan to splurge a tiny bit and paint the hull blue. Just LOVE the look of blue sailboats.

I see my DREAM boats on CL for around $8000

32-37 foot trailerable live aboard style ocean going disel engine boats.

thats what I want down the road. THIS boat will sate my desires as I save up for the "real" boat 

One of my goals? in 5 years time I would like to accomplish this.

We went to cancun. BEST Vacation we EVER had. Period. No contest.

Well we WILL be going back again in 3-5 years time if finances allow and stay for 2 weeks minimum (1 week was NOT enough)

I plan to SAIL down to Cancun with my brother and meet everyone else their.

What a trip that would be! I plan to have my FPV rig ready for my Glider so as I pass interesting places along the coast I can launch my radian and get High Def Arial video ! Oh yeah. Sailing and Gliding best of everything. Gliding is basically sky sailing 

3 minute burn on the motor and I can keep my radian up their 45-60 minutes without too much effort.

check out nerys71 for some of my videos on youtube.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Just for the record, there is no such thing as a 32-37 foot, trailerable, live aboard style, ocean going, diesel engine sailboat. You will have to give up some of those things because to one extent or another they somewhat mutually exclusive. 

Jeff


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Jeff,

Not that the OP can afford the boat, but I recall Bob Perry designing that funky container boat, 37' long, 7.5' wide, if it will fit in an ocean going container, it can be legally trailered. Not sure if it is ocean going etc.............But, IIRC it is $250K or there abouts, maybe $500K for one, probably out of the OP's price range.......

Then again, I have also seen J105's on trailers on an angle making them less than 8.5' wide so easily legal trailer width, or boats up to 9.5-10' with simple to get permits can be trailered too. Assuming you have the correct tow rig.

marty


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## nerys (May 2, 2010)

I just saw a 37foot sail boat with deisel engine and triple axle trailer that was ocean worthy and at 37foot MORE than large enough to be live aboard sleeping 6 comfortably for $6500

If I had $6500 ...... Oh man if only.

Seems to meet 100% of my dream requirements 

37 ft sail boat with trailor

and for right now even THAT FREAKING CHEAP thats all it is a Dream 

maybe in a few years - maybe.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Nerys, from the trailer sailers i've seen. there are bunks for the hull and the swing keel is as low as possible, I've seen a vee like part actually cut in the axle so the boat sits even lower. this requires welding of course. and it's easy to add another axle with wheels to improve the trailer. 
the inside can be done over time. Plywood is still very afforadable. even teak veneer plywood is not too expensive. Gotta warn you though Chris. sailing can be costly.


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## nerys (May 2, 2010)

Am I safe to use pretty much any wood I want on the interior so long as I keep it relatively dry? My neighbor has some nice 4" wide reddish colored hard wood flooring that might look very nice in the cabin. I also have some nice OAK flooring but its 2" but might be nice for a counter top or something Might even have enough to make a counter and table for the boat depending on how much I use on my Metro hatch cover and trailer.

I am definetly going to be able to lower it 6-7 inches without any trouble. I will avoid cutting the trailer if I can. I might also add a third axle and go smaller tires like 12" trailer tires. that will lower me another 3-4 inches. At that point I should be able to launch from any decent ramp.

Lowering it the 6-7" and beefing up the trailer bunks will only cost me about $60 in wood and hardware (already priced it)

Tires would only come next IF it proved difficult to launch. What I am hoping is that PARKING a boat at a marina is a lot cheaper than a slip  if its only a few hundred a season I will do that. This way I can step the mast and LEAVE it up for the season. Then I can launch and retrieve it mast up and then lower the mast for the winter if needed if I have to move it back to my permanent storage.

I imagine its not the launching and retriving of the sail boat that is annoying so much as the setting up the mast 

I launch my 20ft power boat all the time and its not the slightest bit annoying to me and the sail boat "felt" no more or less annoying or time consuming to me than the 20ft power boat IF I remove the time and annoyance of getting the mast down.

I am going to run out and take more pictures if there is any light left. BRB


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## nerys (May 2, 2010)

I swear I am one of the luckiest people on earth. I hitched up the boat and pulled it forward enough to allow me access to the rear. This was the beginning of my miniature hell tonight.

I found out I DO have that swivel transom mount on the back! yeah! I can mount my motor right up!

No hull number though. I could not find any markings at all on the back of the boat.

I went back to the front to take more pictures. I unhitched figuring why risk moving it (the 2 front tires went flat on me as soon as I moved it) Leave it where it was.

Mistake number one was moving it.

Here was mistake #2 I raised the front like I always to do the maximum the jack would allow as it my habit with all my boats.

I took some more pictures and suddenly I was falling over. I checked myself err odd I was not falling over but it still felt like I was falling over.

Then it hit me and I threw myself over top of the trailer neck.

Too little too late and I was too far back. The trailer was tipping back!!!!!!!

I layed my full considerable mass onto the arm and let it lift me into the air a little. I already had the geometry figured it I would be no more than 10-12 inches off the ground at peak.

It worked. I slowed it down enough to not SMASH the back end of the boat into the ground. I was unable to stop it but I prevented serious damage.

Once it was touching the ground I jumped back fast in case the super structure collapsed and 2800 pounds of boat and X pounds of what was clearly WATER crushed me.

Sat there for a few minutes hearing the creaking in the trailer PRAYING it would hold PRAYING the boat would not slide on the bunks rendering it impossible to easily right the boat.

everything held. I carefully gave a tug on the nose of the trailer coupler. No way.

Went to the back. the ENTIRE stern cavity was FULL to to the top of water. at least 1200-1500 pounds of water easy.

I spent the next HOUR bailing water praying the boat would not slide and squish me. MY arms are hurting so bad it hurts to type this message 

It started to feel light so I had rick hold onto the back corner ready to bail it things went wicky.

I grapped the coupler and pulled down. It started to come I had him counter me just in case the water RUSHED to the front. Did not want it to slam down and break something.

Got it to touch and left it there me lying on it till I was sure water had made it to the front then little my little lowers the jack till it had mass on the wheel and no inclination to lift. stayed sitting on it for a few more minutes and gave it a test "lift" it was solid.

No more creaking. Nothing appears the worse. Extremely lucky! Hugely massively lucky. It could have killed me. what the hell was I thinking jumping on the neck to slow it down. But it worked. probably saved the boat.

I guess this trailer is a hell of a lot tougher than I think. I had to have bailed at least a hundred to hundred twenty gallons of water at least probably a lot more. I should have taken more pictures but I was too worried about getting it level again to stop and take a picture.

I did get a picture of it tilted. I insisted on not going near it a full 10 minutes to make sure it was stable and the super structure was not going to give on me. I will post them when I get home.

Someone (now that I think of it probable the massive winds we had in november) ripped my tarp off allowing water to gain ingress into the cabin space. The tarp is completely gone.

I am getting a dirty water pump tomorrow and will drain the rest of the water and check it weekly to make sure no more water is in their.

There is some sort of a "drain" on the bottom. looks like a normal boat drain but nothing came out. I shoved a rod up their over a foot and hit a dead stop and whatever is on the other end is not moving easily and I could not feel anything from inside the cavity (which does not look like its supposed to be their I might add looks like PO cut that hole their)

Wow am I tired. will be 2300 when I get home so I might wait till tomorrow to put the pics up see how I feel when I get home.

At least it survived 

My guesstimate on what happened? when I pulled it forward I set up a standing wave motion in the water inside the boat.

I unhitched too soon (mistake #2) and then raised the boat all the way (mistake #3 your out)

this allowed the already in motion water to push to the rear just enough to tip the balance. Over it went.

Won't make that mistake again.


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## nerys (May 2, 2010)

Here is a pic of the oops. Thankfully I THINK I got out of it unscathed. ITs level again 3/4 of the water is removed (getting a dirty water pump for the rest and "from now on)

Got lucky.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Nerys

That ad is mislabled. The boat in the picture is a Hunter 27 (itr actually appears to be a Hunter 25) but it definitely is not a Hunter 37. It does not have a diesel (you can see the outboard motor bracket on its transom).

But also no one would describe a Hunter 25 or even 27 as a live aboard style, ocean going sailboat. These are coastal cruisers at best.

The Perry designed container vessel is a pretty neat design exercise, but I would not call it a "live aboard style", ocean going sailboat. At best it is a very nice coastal cruiser. I would also question calling it a trailerable. My 38 footer was hauled down here from Maine on a big hydraulic trailer, but I would not call it a trailerable.

Jeff



nerys said:


> I just saw a 37foot sail boat with deisel engine and triple axle trailer that was ocean worthy and at 37foot MORE than large enough to be live aboard sleeping 6 comfortably for $6500
> 
> If I had $6500 ...... Oh man if only.
> 
> ...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

This is known as the free surface effect, when a large amount of liquid is allowed to move freely about a boat's interior, it can radically change the center of gravity and such. This is why large fuel, water and waste tanks are generally required to be baffled. 

Am a bit curious, but why did you move this boat with all the water in it? Checking the boat and making sure the bilges are as dry as possible is generally a really, really good idea on any trailerable boat.



nerys said:


> I swear I am one of the luckiest people on earth. I hitched up the boat and pulled it forward enough to allow me access to the rear. This was the beginning of my miniature hell tonight.
> 
> I found out I DO have that swivel transom mount on the back! yeah! I can mount my motor right up!
> 
> ...


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

OK, maybe I'm off base here, but I don't think the boat in question is a Luger Tradewinds. At least it's not the same boat that Denise posted a pic of. The OP's boat in the top image has no side deck while the Luger Tradewinds in the bottom pic clearly does.


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## nerys (May 2, 2010)

ahh and the windows are different the rear is larger the cabin further forward than on my boat as well. Very similar though.

Why did I move it? cause I needed to get pics of the rear. It was late I was rushing and UNAWARE that it has so much water inside. I had sealed the hatch and covered the opening. My hatch is GONE and the tarp is also GONE (my guess is wind tore them off gonna have to hope the cover is still around and relatively undamaged. Its surrounded by tree's

ALSO I do not recall the giant OPENING in the stern!! I sat right there I would have noticed big enough for me to climb into and I am a big fellow!

My guess is there was some sort of cover on it and this blew off. again allowing rain to enter the hull.

a few little mistakes all came together and oops. Thankfully I get to say oops since nothing got broken. VERY lucky.

like I said. Won't make that mistake again.


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## nerys (May 2, 2010)

Found a VERY similar boat. This is a luger tradewinds 26 1982

its similar but there are differences

P6100001 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

The windows are different - the tail light is in a different location (mine is "inside" the railing his is "outside" the railing.) and the keel is different.

but man its scary similar


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## RXBOT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Capital Yachts*

Models Newport 27-1 (EARLY 70's)

Newport 27S- (LATE 70's)

These look close, keep in mind sometimes number of portlights change year to year.


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## nerys (May 2, 2010)

hmm would have to say negative on the newport 27 at least all the images I have found show it to have a fixed keel not the separate swing keel I have and the top is "different" (I like the newport better btw  looks like it has more head room.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Lugers were kit boats and so varied very widely from one boat to the next. Its a Luger...

Jeff


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## nerys (May 2, 2010)

I am also leaning toward that. The one I found on flickr is so similar as to be not something to dismiss. I guess the slight differences are from the builder since its a kit.

wow a 27foot kit  did the hull come like that or did the builder have to lay it up? If the hull came like it is why kit it? why not finish it?

Never heard of kits this large. Would explain why the title says homebuilt though


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## tomwatt (Dec 11, 2009)

Kits were an attempt to get into the low-budget, backyard handyman market rather than someone interested in buying a finished boat.
Given the number of kit-and-plan arrangements floating around out there (no pun intended), I'd have to guess that there is still some kind of market for them.
I'd cheerfully tackle a dinghy. Don't think I'd tackle something over 20' though. To each his/her own.


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## nerys (May 2, 2010)

Some updates. I got a bilge pump. Will take longer but at least this way I will also have the pump I need when using the boat.

I got a ryobi angle grinder so later this week now that census work is slower I hope to tackle the keel.

I also finally got the Outboard for it. Got to find a tank now (I see them all over the place should not take me long mine is cracked and I don't mess with gasoline so won't try to repair it)

Tomorrow night I will have a Blue top optima marine battery! $60 score on craigslist.

I also found the title!! yeah! so this week I plan to get it all legally sorted out so I can get it wet.

Hopefully monday I will get 2 new tires installed up front and will likely replace the rear tires as well just in case. Having 4000 pounds go whicky on me on the highway would not be fun 

I will also start getting the wood to reinforce the super structure holding the boat up. It has proven itself insanely strong (tow home me tipping it over etc..) and has not so much as moaned at me. Very impressed. Still don't trust it going to reinforce it anyway.

Gonna get some glass and marine grade epoxy to start laying up to repair the wheel fenders. I am going to "patch" them first so I can remove them and have them retain their shape. Then I will use them as a quasi mold to make a set of new all glass fenders.

I also want to add a "wheelie" bar to the back of the trailer to make sure it can NEVER tip backwards on me every again. My mechanic can weld maybe I will get some lessons in the process. Maybe even just add a third axle.


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## nerys (May 2, 2010)

One other question for you guys. Is there a downside to going with lower profile tires on the trailer? I want to get the lowest profile tires within financial reason I can to lower the trailer even more. If I can knock 2 inches off the tires and lower it 7 or 8 inches (super structure) thats almost 10 inches lower. that much easier to launch!


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## merc2dogs (Jun 5, 2004)

Low profile tires would work for that, as would simply dropping a size on the tire. (Going from a 15 to a 14 say) Issue there is to make sure there is enough room for brakes if equipped. 
If you go with a fairly a large change, you would want to go with a hitch that sits lower too, a lower hitch also makes launching a LOT easier by keeping the trailer closer to level.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

fenders are cheap, why make em? Also you need to make sure the trailer brakes work. New surge brake controller = save your life and boat. Northern tool is once source.










Trailers + Trailer Parts | Northern Tool + Equipment


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## nerys (May 2, 2010)

Oh I am 100% certain the brakes no longer work. this is not ULTRA critical as my vehicle is rated to tow 10,000 pounds 7000 pounds unassisted so this 3800 or so pounds really is nothing to it. I will repair the brakes anyway though since I want it to stop if it were to break away or something equally horrid 

For now my "tow" to the water is maybe 10 miles and never over 35mph so thats a low priority right now.

I will look into buying fenders. I do a lot of glassing so its not really a lot of work to me but if they are cheap enough then yeah I will just buy them.

I will have to see how big the drums are to see if I can goto 14's either way I want to try and go as small as I can to get everything lower.

Not too worried about hitch height. I tow a large variety of trailers so I have 6 draw bars of differing heights. One of them will work 

they sure look like ford standard rims. I will have to check when I get a chance to pull one. I don't dare try to "jack up" this trailer on dirt so I need to find a controlled way of tipping it slightly so I can remove the front 2 tires and get them replaced. Once I pull it onto pavement then I can jack it up and replace the rear 2 tires. I bet all 4 are 20 years old 

I noticed when I "accidentally" tipped it back the front tires were free and clear.


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## nerys (May 2, 2010)

wow fenders are $50 to $60 a pop plus shipping. Ouch. unless I find them for half that I will try making my own first  I figure I can make them for $10 to $12 a pop in materials.

brake actuators are not too bad. $130. I can rebuild the drum brakes for under $20 so I will definitely get one of those before I attempt to tow any real distance if Mine is not serviceable.


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