# Hi all this is my first time on this forum.



## pigs&poodles (Nov 13, 2021)

I am new here and I don't have a sailboat at this time and I haven't been sailing for 50yr. When I was 121 my parents bought a signet 20 and we spent that summer traveling the Chesapeake Bay in MD. We kept the boat on the Severn River just above Annapolis MD. We only had the boat that one summer since my Dad died in December of that year. When I was about 22,1974, me and two of my friends bought the plans for a Roberts 22 and proceeded to build it in my Moms carport. We expected to finish it in a by year working on it weekends and Holidays as the promotional material stated. We used sandwich F.G. construction and it only took 3 years to get the hull right. LOL. 
I am hoping that the folks on this forum will be able to help me select a good sailboat to sail the Chesapeake when I retire in June 2022, I will be 70. I am only looking for used boats. My budget is fairly open but my wife says its $10,000 to maybe $15,000. I probably have the cart before the horse since I need to make sure my wife can tolerate sailing. 
I have been considering 1983 Hunter 27 1983 Hunter 27 - boats - by owner - marine sale 
1978 Cal-34 1978 Cal-34 - boats - by owner - marine sale
and a 1977 Pearson 35 Yawl 1977 PEARSON 35 YAWL - boats - by owner - marine sale
I would to get your thoughts.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Welcome to the forum.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Welcome aboard! what you might do is go sailing with your spouse before actually buying a boat, I was a builder of small craft so you caught my attention,
26- 27 ft are usually about the max for trailer boats. The old narrow boats like the Pearson and the Cal seem a lot smaller despite their length, so you might consider a Catalina 30 there so many of them around , and they're pretty well built boats very large inside with a large cockpit to boot!


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## pigs&poodles (Nov 13, 2021)

We are planning on taking some trips this spring/summer just to make sure we both like sailing. I will start looking at the Catalina 30s. Thanks for the info.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Of the three the Cal 34 is probably the best sailing of the three (4 if you consider the Catalina 30) and has a very workable interior layout. The ad does not discuss the engine which is probably an Atomic 4 gasoline engine. Personally I don't have a problem with a well maintained Atomic 4 but you should have good mechanical skills, and it will make the boat harder to sell. 

The Hunter 27 was a nice little boat for its day and should be comparatively easy to handle. It has a nice interior layout for a boat that size. 

The Pearson 35 probably isn't the best choice mainly because it is a yawl. That just isn't a good platform to develop sailing skills. 

Catalina 30's are quite common on the Bay. They are your basic Chevy. They do nothing exceptionally well, but also do nothing terribly either. The big issue there is build quality which tended not to be very good, especially in the earlier boats. I personally don't like their motion which tends to be corky. 

Jeff


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## pigs&poodles (Nov 13, 2021)

The Cal 34 comes with a Westerbeke 4 cylinder diesel. Thanks for your advise.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

How much time do you want to spend working on it vs. sailing it? I'm talking in addition to the normal maintenance of oil changes, winterizing, battery replacement, bottom painting, refinishing wood both exterior and interior. 

With a budget of 10 to 15k, you're at the bottom end condition-wise on a sailboat of the length you're considering. In that price range there are going to be some deficiencies. I'll assume that you'll get a survey. Anything from tired sails, engine issues, delaminations and soft spots in the deck, questionable thru-hulls, faulty/dangerous wiring, leaky chainplates with questionable bulkhead attachments, etc.. The list of nasty and expensive things you'll find on a boat of that size in that price range is looooong. Very easy to find a boat that will soak up another 10 to 15k quickly. New sails and new standing rigging. Throw in new running rigging and...ouch. 

I'm not trying to darken your day. I want you and your wife to have the best possible experience. 

Also, I'm a proponent of not buying more boat than you're willing or able to maintain well. 

If I wanted to sail, and I had your budget I'd be looking in the 22 to 26 range, and I'd be happy with a good outboard. Even at that length of boat, you're not going to be looking at the cream of the crop, but you should be seeing boats that are in better condition and the necessary repairs will be much lower. 

You could change my mind if you were to tell us that you're very handy, have extensive experience with engine repair, woodworking, and some fiberglass experience would help. Oh...and 12v electrical systems. 

Otherwise, keep it simple. Your boat should be fun. And safe for you and your wife.


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## pigs&poodles (Nov 13, 2021)

I am fairly handy but I would rather spend more and get a better boat. the budget is a movable target as far as I am concerned. I just have to convince my wife so as we see different boats and see all the stuff that has to be repaired at that price point we will move up the $ amount. What would be a more reasonable budget range.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

35k to 100k. or...25k to 100k.

Opinions will vary wildly regarding the amount.


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## pigs&poodles (Nov 13, 2021)

Thanks for your input. It will be a slow process to move the needle that far for my wife but I am sure that after we look at several boats in our present budget range we can move to a more realistic level.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

I think you're right about getting your wife on the boat so she can educate herself on cost vs. benefit. I know my wife would be appalled at the condition of a $12k, 30 ft. sailboat. Especially after she smells the odor coming from the old, permeable head hoses. She'd say, 'if we're going to do this (crazy a$$) thing, I'm willing to spend what it will take to do it. 

The sooner you're able to set foot on some available boats, the better. It's a vital part of the education process. On the one hand, you don't want to inconvenience a seller, but on the other, it's knowledge you need. And, it's fun. 

Sorry I can't point you directly to one, but there are inspection checklists available. Searching this site would probably produce one. You won't necessarily perform the checklist on every boat you view, but the checklist itself will give you a better idea of the stuff that can go wrong on a sailboat. 

If you hang out on this site long enough, and read all the threads where owners are seeking help with issues on their boats, you might run off screaming in terror. But, do it anyway. 

I sold my 1996 Catalina 28 this spring. 500 hours on the engine, 5 yr. old sails, and overall immaculate with no issues (although from what I've seen, the new owner is actively engaged in destroying it). $35k. There are some good boats out there, and they don't need to be at the top of the range I suggested. 

Best of luck to you. 

P.S.
I'm ready to get blasted by some owners that are immensely satisfied with the 36ft., $13k boats. I'm not denying that they can enjoy and love their boats. My point is that at 70, coming into sailing after a long hiatus, and with a wife who may be skittish, paving the way with a clean, turnkey boat makes sense.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Welcome! And welcome back to Chesapeake Bay sailing! It's lovely cruising grounds.

As a 70 year old sailor just getting back into sailing, the best money you can spend right now is getting your wife on board. Two big reasons: you need crew, and you need company. So I would take some money out of that sailing kitty, and take your wife on a learn-to-sail course in waters of her choosing. Somewhere fun and romantic.* You are already in love with sailing. Get her to fall in love, and you'll have a much better time. 

and +1 everything Siamese said above.

Good luck and welcome aboard!

* I think a mistake many folks make at this point is assuming that the spouse will fall in love with sailing while out with you. This in my experience rarely works out - especially if you scare them with your ineptitude or shout at them to help you when conditions get stressful at the dock.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I took a quick look at that Cal34 there's something to be said about it, certainly looks somewhat decent, another thing about buying an older boats...you know somebody had to work on them to bring em up to par, or at least close to sellable. And yes there's a lot of floating junk out there even at higher prices.


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## pigs&poodles (Nov 13, 2021)

I can not thank you guys enough for all the solid advice which plan on taking. To make matters a little more complicated my wife has benign positional vertigo so I really thing a ride on a sailboat is the first thing we have to do so I am probably looking at Spring of 22 for that since the weather is getting cool out side and I want a try for great conditions for the first time out. I really would rather get a Cat like a Gemini 3400. First things first. Thanks again.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I am not a doctor and I don't even play one on TV, but I have one word of advice for you, "Stugeron" (cinnarizine), or other form of anti nausea medication. Seriously, everyone responds to anti-nausea medications differently. Your wife may need to experiment with different products. But for what it is worth, my wife is very prone to motion sickness, and finds stugeron pretty effective. You might check with a real doctor and see what they suggest given your wife's condition.

As far as the suggestions above, generally it is true that it's easier to buy a well found boat in good condition, which will be ready to go, but it will be a lot more expensive.

On the flip side, I am aware of two different boat deals this year where two separate people each bought a 33 and a 34 footer respectively. Both boats sold for around $8,500.

The 34 footer was a good design from a quality boat builder. It had new standing rigging, upholstery, a large selection of decent sails, self-steering vane, and a new engine along with a bunch of spare parts and new gear. While the boat in no way had a perfect survey, she was none the less in good solid condition, did not smell badly, and was pretty much completely usable for coastal cruising as is. I have not seen the other boat in person. But it is an excellent design from a reputable builder with a very nice interior layout.

In the end, it comes down to picking out the best option from what is available, within your budget, at the time that you decide to buy a boat. 

As far as getting you and your wife out on the water, another option is to join a boat sharing club. These are often very affordable and gives you a chance to sail with other more experienced people while you build skills. A good example of this near the middle of the Bay is the Parklawn Sailing Association Parklawn Sailing Association - We race Wednesday evening and train new members on weekend. Parklawn owns a number of boats and you can sail on these boats pretty cheaply. They also have sailing skills building sessions for new sailors and encourage volunteer member participation in maintaining the boats which helps new sailors by giving safe experience in boat maintenance as well. Think of it as training wheels but without the pejorative sense. Plus the social experience can make the time more enjoyable and reduce the stress level. (I am not associated with Parklawn, but I have lectured at Parklawn on Performance Cruising). 

Jeff


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

emcentar said:


> * I think a mistake many folks make at this point is assuming that the spouse will fall in love with sailing while out with you. This in my experience rarely works out - especially if you scare them with your ineptitude or shout at them to help you when conditions get stressful at the dock.


Agreed, you rarely get the unwilling to change their mind and bad behavior seals the deal. While it's the sign of a good skipper to dock peacefully, I also think there should be some understanding of any newbie that is completely stressed out. Just yesterday, my wife was freaking out (read as full throated yelling) over something that caught her by surprise. She had a case fall on her leg and you'd have thought she broke her leg. She completely acknowledged the scared, over reaction, when all settled down moments later. Goes both ways. When the scared newbie doesn't shake it right off and just stays abusive, that's the sin in my book. Just losing personal control for a moment is not as much. 

The other most important thing to note is that people have different desires, even when they do like to go out on the boat. Some like big passages, with challenges to overcome, others just short fair weather sails, some only want to sail when the wind is favorable to the destination. If being truthful, some really like the destination and going to dinner or sitting in the cockpit at anchor and watching the sunset. One would be wise to understand what their partner likes the most and have a healthy dose of it.



pigs&poodles said:


> my wife has benign positional vertigo


I'm of the belief that most seasickness is based on stress. Worrying about getting sick is the biggest precipitant of getting sick. Once things are no longer nerve racking, such as not getting tense when healing, the liklihood of seasickness declines by multiple factors. I worry that knowing one has vertigo will be tough the first few times out. They will need to be perfectly flat water and tame wind. All are educated to keep their eyes out of the cockpit and not fixate on the floor. It's believed to be a problem, when your inner ear can sense movement, but your eyes see a fixed floor. Watch the horizon and they agree with each other. Techniques like this would seem to be critical for someone that suffers from vertigo. 

No doubt, there will need to be a physician involved. All the best on the endevour. Where there is a will there is a way.


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## pigs&poodles (Nov 13, 2021)

Thanks for the wisdom and encouragement, My wife is very hopeful and looking forward to the trial period and beyond. She is preparing to execute some new maneuvers that will correct her condition. I am sure that she will begin her time on the water with a Dramamine patch or something similar. 
WE are planning on a big family outing on a chartered sailboat in the spring.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

I have terrible vertigo myself, and while I'll get sea sick within a few hours down below on a cruise ship I've never been sea sick while sailing the Chesapeake, including a trip I took across the Bay in 30 knt gusts and 3-4 ft waves without a GPS (which meant I had to go down below while motor sailing and calculate our position and speed, while books I'd failed to secure properly flew at my head).

The key is _sailing_. Few people get sea sick on deck with their eyes on the horizon. I once talked to a fairly new sailor whose wife got sea-sick and wasn't into it sailing - since I can get sea sick too I talked to her about it. It turns out he was always sending her below on chartering trips to cook, while he sailed the boat. "You should be sailing while he's down below cooking, not the other way around" I told her. "That's a guaranteed way to get sick if you are prone to sea-sickness". Given the way she glared at him when I told her this I got the feeling there was quite a discussion about it afterward.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

pigs&poodles said:


> she will begin her time on the water with a Dramamine patch


I'm not immune, but not terribly prone to sea sickness. Happens maybe once a decade. Depends on conditions. I took Dramamine 10 or 15 years ago, when I really thought a 4 hour open water passage home was going to be bad. We got back early afternoon, no sea sickness. Can't ever know if it was due to the pill or not. However, I had to drive a friend home and found myself so sleepy behind the wheel, it was dangerous. For the first time ever, I really thought I'd pass out tired, while driving. It was clearly grogginess from the med that I hadn't noticed until things quieted down.

Always test all sea sickness meds at home, before trying them at sea. Everyone responds differently to each. There are even some hard core prescription versions for which some hallucinate.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> Always test all sea sickness meds at home, before trying them at sea. Everyone responds differently to each. There are even some hard core prescription versions for which some hallucinate.


A thousand times this. I took Dramamine on a cruise ship for the first time not realizing one of the side effects is, ironically, nausea. After three days my 'seasickness' was so bad I went to the medic, who advised me to switch anti-nausea meds. Instead I just stopped taking them and by the time my last dose of Dramamine wore off I felt fine and enjoyed the rest of the trip. Probably bought myself an extra two days of misery with that stuff.


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## Izzy (Feb 14, 2016)

I'm not a Medical doctor but I work along side many of them every day at the hospital.

Meclizine 25mg works well for motion sickness without drowsiness and can be purchased over the counter at your local pharmacy. For nausea and vomiting, obtain a prescription from your MD for Zofran, it's a fast acting miracle drug used all the time in hospitals and aboard cruise ships.


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## Overdue (Jun 14, 2021)

If the vertigo persists, consider consulting a physical therapist trained to administer the "Epley Maneuver", or first try one of several home treatments:









Home Exercises for Vertigo


The spinning sensation and dizziness you get from vertigo can limit your activities and make you feel sick. WebMD describes some simple maneuvers you can do at home that might bring relief, depending on the cause.




www.webmd.com


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Izzy said:


> Meclizine 25mg works well for motion sickness without drowsiness


This is our stocked pill for those that feel they'll need it. Bonine is a common brand name. I'd say "substantially less drowsiness" not without.


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## pigs&poodles (Nov 13, 2021)

Thank you all for this advice, I will forever be in your debt. I'm sure my wife will appreciate it as well.


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## Annapolitan (Feb 22, 2021)

Welcome from another new member. Lots of great advice for you here. Good luck to you in your new adventure.


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