# Albin Ballad vs Vega?



## GTOM (Mar 7, 2017)

I am looking for a seaworthy pocket cruiser and the boats from Albin really caught me. First the Vega - which is trailerable without any special permits - then its bigger(?) sister, the Ballad.

To my knowledge, both are proven off-shore boats.

Looking at their layouts, am I missing something or is the Ballad just as small inside as the Vega?? There seem to be two additional "berths" on the sides (call them shelves with a curtain...) but nothing more. Even the waterline is almost 2' shorter than of the Vega.

What's the point then for the Ballad? Is it more stable in foul weather?


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

I owned an Albin Cirrus 7.8 for 15 years. It was a very well built boat. I would pick the Ballad over the Vega, no question Much better performance. Better looking. Better accommodations.


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## GTOM (Mar 7, 2017)

It's a difficult choice for me (which first boat purchase isn't...). I live in the middle of Europe and being able to trailer is really appealing. To give that up the accommodation/storage part must really a class better, which I don't see from the specs, even the water and fuel tanks of the Ballad are smaller than of the Vega. But I have to check the boats in person to judge.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

I would also look at Albin Scampi. SCAMPI 30-2 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
Ballad is likely the best of the 3. But these are not really trailerable boats. You would need a very sturdy trailer and a massive truck to haul them. Where do you want to sail? North Sea and Baltic?


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## GTOM (Mar 7, 2017)

North sea (Wattenmeer) at the beginning - I'll most likely buy the boat there. Then some lakes (e.g Lake Constance) and the eastern Med. Did a little research on European trailering costs and it seems I am probably over-worrying the thing if I don't move every year.


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## FreeAgent (Apr 19, 2017)

GTOM said:


> I am looking for a seaworthy pocket cruiser and the boats from Albin really caught me. First the Vega - which is trailerable without any special permits - then its bigger(?) sister, the Ballad.
> 
> To my knowledge, both are proven off-shore boats.


Happens we had several Vegas, a Ballad and two Scampis at our club here in Canada.

The owners bought their Ballad in Sweden and sailed it home to Lake Ontario. Later they sailed it to the Caribbean. So no doubt seaworthy.

I never sailed on these boats (maybe once on Vega). The Scampi raced and did well against the rest of the fleet (mostly C&C27s) All three were well thought of by their owners and other club members.

Some comments:
- The Ballad and the Scampi were designed to race under the IOR 1/2 ton rule. This rule did not encourage designs that were particularly sea kindly. Beamy in centre and narrow ends. Neither probably a good choice as a cruiser. 
- All three are by now quite old. Not really a problem except perhaps for engines, unless they have been re-powered. But definitely need full survey. Some Vegas had gasoline powered engines. I think some also had a variable pitch prop that could be adjusted while under way. Interesting but parts could be a problem.

If I had to choose from these three boats, my choice would be the Vega. Always admired their lines. It is a small boat, but may suit your intended use. You may find this review of interest:
Albin Vega 27 - A Review | VAGB - The Vega Association of Great Britain
Good Luck finding something that suits you.


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## GTOM (Mar 7, 2017)

Thank you for the valuable thoughts! A North Atlantic crossing definitely puts the boat in the reliable bunch. Yeah, neither are perfect cruising boats, supporting a family of 4 for a full week, but we don't plan that. My priority list:

#1: Should be seaworthy to reach new sailing grounds on its own keel (the Canaries from the Med or do an "easy" Ocean crossing like ARC, milk run) with a crew of 2.

#2: Should provide good daysailing for 4-5 people in coastal waters.

#3: Robust, "everlasting" construction/low maintenance.

#4: Financials: Should fit in the 30k€ budget, refit included (no chance for modern spacious boats, definitely not seaworthy ones). Land transport costs should stay on the ground = no beam >12', no weight >4t.


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## OldEagle (Nov 16, 2013)

I've owned a Vega for 3 years now, and like it a lot. I've never been on a Ballad.
bobperry, above, knows a lot more than I do, and I would give serious consideration to his advice.

That noted, a lot depends on what you will be doing. 
- Shorter length and shallower draft of Vega, may be advantages for you
- Believe me, backing the Vega under power in tight spaces, is very difficult. This would almost certainly be much less of a problem, if any problem at all, with the Ballad, which has a skeg hung rudder place far aft. This is a significant consideration if you will have your boat in slips in crowded marinas, or need to back into a wharf.
- For 1 or 2 people, the cabin size of the Vega is sufficient. If you are bringing more people, even children, the added space in the Ballad would be useful
- I've day-sailed with 5 total aboard--very crowded in the cockpit to the point of interfering with sailing the boat. Three in the cockpit is about max.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Both of these boats are very long in the tooth and potentially will need a lot of work to bring them up to a level of reliability to make a trans-oceanic passage. Of the two the Ballad is a more enjoyable boat to sail with lighter more precise steering. 

Albin generally built to a very high build quality, but there seems to be some big variations in the glasswork on the Vega seemed to vary over the Vega's production run. While I have seen Vegas which have looked very solid, and another in which the gelcoat has failed and there seemed to be delamination extending into at least the veil coat.

And while I know both of these boats have done very impressive voyages, I would suggest that these are not exactly ideal designs for your purpose. You might want to open your search to more distance cruising oriented designs. 

Jeff


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## GTOM (Mar 7, 2017)

Thanks Jeff and OldEagle. The floor is open for other designs, considering my tight budget I am looking at some venerable units: Atom Voyages - Good Old Boats List . I think I won't go any smaller than the Ballad. I don't think that I'd actually cruise longer distances, its more like delivering with a crew of 2 to the new cruising ground, then daysailing with the rest of the family.


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## Mark F. Sanderson (Aug 12, 2016)

I lived on and sailed a Ballad from the mid seventies to the early eighties. There were a couple of Vegas around. These are excellent boats, well made and designed for rough seas. I sailed a couple of times on the Vegas, and remembered it was very similar in behavior to our Ballad. If I remember correctly, the Vegas did exhibit a bit of weather helm (not much) but the Ballads were just about dead neutral on a close reach. The Ballad will point higher than a Vega, but the Vega is certainly no slouch upwind either. On winds greater than 15 knots is were these designs really shine, they are not 'light air' boats by any stretch. I remember we wouldn't start reefing main until around the 20 knot mark. Just about everyone else were dropping sails/reefing and we'd being full blast with a Genoa and full main. We LOVED the time before tropical storms would hit the gulf . . . great sailing weather! They are not roomy boats, but very much driven by IOR/MORC rules at the time. Here is a quick dis/advantage list as i see it

Support: Vega wins hands down. Many were built, and there are a number of support groups that you can find by googling. Not many Ballads were built, but there are some websites out there (mostly in Europe?) dedicated to the Ballad.

Rigging: For trailering Vega wins. Ballad is stepped to the keel, the Vega is stepped to a compression column. For strength, the Ballad. So I guess they are tied! The Ballad (our year, at least) has this weird boom roller reefing; it always worked flawlessly but I was suspicious of it in general. I've read some issues Vegas have had with their compression columns, but Ballads have had issues with the keel to mast attach points as well.

Looks: Ballad wins. I love the looks of both of them; But in my eye, the Ballad is drop dead gorgeous.

Auxiliary: Ballad Wins - We never had any major issues with our diesel auxiliary. If the battery went out, we could always start it with the crank and compression release. Folks have complained about reverse in these boats; but we could back straight out of our dock and go w/no problem. The Vegas I'm familiar with had gasoline engines - boo! 

I'd like to see some boats that are more modern or manufactured today that are similar in seaworthiness and good looks. 
Good luck in your search; I'd purchase the best of what I could find between the two.

Mark


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## GTOM (Mar 7, 2017)

Many thanks Mark! What do you think about using a Ballad with an outboard to save a little place/ease close quarters maneuvers? I know, it's not ideal in open ocean but in case I am planning to cross one, I don't plan to motor all the way to the Caribbean...

Might be departing the Albins though, added the Bene FC10 to my research. Much more space, also referred as blue-water craft. I think I'll have lot's of sleepless nights until I finally decide


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## SinkingManatee (Oct 21, 2016)

For low budget, they are solid boats. I own a vega that I bought for roughly 400 euros. She wasn't exactly in mint condition as you might imagine but with enough elbow grease it did get me afloat on a student budget. Now she resides in a relatives barn most of the time. It's fool proof enough to be used as a coastal cruiser even without electronics. But in your situation, I would not hesitate to go for the ballad. 

One fairly common problem with vegas is the deck giving out. Many flex underfoot due to the mast compression.. Ballads have keel stepped masts IIRC. And as stated before, the build quality does vary a lot. There was a cutoff year for when the quality supposedly improved, but I would have to dig it up. But the point stands - if you happen to find a really good specimen, it probably has some sort of new bracing installed, lot of stuff added and commanding a hefty price for what it is because of it's reputation. As fond as I am of them, I have seen asking prices that would probably get you a less known, better built, bigger, better sailing boat even from the Nordic boat builders. But they will be more difficult to find and would require you to come over. In the late 70's or so, boat building was a major thing in Finland and Sweden, a plethora of hidden gems still lurk around.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

GTOM said:


> Many thanks Mark! What do you think about using a Ballad with an outboard to save a little place/ease close quarters maneuvers? I know, it's not ideal in open ocean but in case I am planning to cross one, I don't plan to motor all the way to the Caribbean...
> 
> Might be departing the Albins though, added the Bene FC10 to my research. Much more space, also referred as blue-water craft. I think I'll have lot's of sleepless nights until I finally decide


A couple quick thoughts here. .. I really love FC 10's and would suggest that they are super race boats and great Weekender and daysailers, but under no circumstances are they an offshore cruiser, especially shorthanded. It would be one thing if you didn't plan to cross an ocean, but given your game plan, I would cross the Beneteau FC 10 off your list.

The Albin Ballad would be a way better choice, but not if you plan to pull out the inboard and hang an outboard on the transom. That is undermining the viability of the Ballad.

Jeff


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## GTOM (Mar 7, 2017)

Jeff_H said:


> A couple quick thoughts here. .. I really love FC 10's and would suggest that they are super race boats and great Weekender and daysailers, but under no circumstances are they an offshore cruiser, especially shorthanded. It would be one thing if you didn't plan to cross an ocean, but given your game plan, I would cross the Beneteau FC 10 off your list.
> 
> The Albin Ballad would be a way better choice, but not if you plan to pull out the inboard and hang an outboard on the transom. That is undermining the viability of the Ballad.
> 
> Jeff


Thanks Jeff! Seems I'll stay with a classic then 

SinkingManatee: I'll go for the bigger boat (Ballad, or something similar). The mast-step issue is known to me, I am prepared to get it fixed properly. in case I decide for the Ballad.


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## Mark F. Sanderson (Aug 12, 2016)

GTOM said:


> Many thanks Mark! What do you think about using a Ballad with an outboard to save a little place/ease close quarters maneuvers? I know, it's not ideal in open ocean but in case I am planning to cross one, I don't plan to motor all the way to the Caribbean...
> 
> Might be departing the Albins though, added the Bene FC10 to my research. Much more space, also referred as blue-water craft. I think I'll have lot's of sleepless nights until I finally decide


I believe someone else posed the question, but research the FC10's suitability as a blue water
boat. Look the differences in how the chainplates are fastened, the masts are stepped, port hole size an composition and how the hull is attached to the deck. The Vega and Ballad are designed for a specific environment, and if you wish to sail in that environment they are ideal. If you wish calmer seas then perhaps the FC10 might work well for you.

The sailboats that I used outboard auxiliaries were designed specifically to use them as such. Looking at the Ballads stern, there might be problems installing a proper outboard mount - not sure. As folks far more knowledgeable than have stated, the inboard auxiliaries are one of those items that are 'gotchas' on older used boats. I'd probably try and purchase one with a newer/overhauled auxiliary if I had a chance.

Mark!:captain:


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## GTOM (Mar 7, 2017)

Mark F. Sanderson said:


> I believe someone else posed the question, but research the FC10's suitability as a blue water
> boat. Look the differences in how the chainplates are fastened, the masts are stepped, port hole size an composition and how the hull is attached to the deck. The Vega and Ballad are designed for a specific environment, and if you wish to sail in that environment they are ideal. If you wish calmer seas then perhaps the FC10 might work well for you.
> 
> The sailboats that I used outboard auxiliaries were designed specifically to use them as such. Looking at the Ballads stern, there might be problems installing a proper outboard mount - not sure. As folks far more knowledgeable than have stated, the inboard auxiliaries are one of those items that are 'gotchas' on older used boats. I'd probably try and purchase one with a newer/overhauled auxiliary if I had a chance.
> ...


Dismissed the outboard idea, there isn't much space to gain anyway... I definitely don't want to limit ourselves to calm environments, because on longish deliveries there is no way to be 100% sure about the weather.


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## GTOM (Mar 7, 2017)

Added Halberg Rassy Monsoon 31 to my homework list. Looks it has more space than the Ballad, heavier though.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

The Monsun 31's are a nice boat for your purpose. Probably not as good as a coastal cruiser as the Ballad, but better suited for the transatlantic passage portion of your plan. 

I would be concerned that the early Hallberg Rassy's often had cored topsides (from deck to waterline) that were notorious for rotting. I don't know whether the Monsun 31's were built that way but that would be something to research before adding them to your list. 

Jeff


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## GTOM (Mar 7, 2017)

I've read only about fuel tank issues. Apparently the deck is cored and the hull is solid grp.


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