# Floated off the stands



## AndreasNYC (Sep 6, 2010)

Hello everyone

I had Put my boat on stands a week before the hurricane.
This was at liberty landing marina in NJ.
Today I rode by to check on my boat. I was not able tO enter the yard as it was unsafe.
Apparently most Of the boats floated Off their stands during severe flooding.
The boats where not bunched Top of each other as far as I could see.
The person at the yard claimed that thE boats had been "set down gently"'as the flood receeded 

How bad do you guys think this damage is likely to be ?
I am hoping the mast did not end catching a high Point and bending or snapping. How bad is damage to the hull Or kneel likely to be?


----------



## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Regrettably, you can only speculate as to the extent or severity of the damage. If your boat is not in its stands when you arrive, then you should contact your insurance company (assuming that the boat is insured) immediately and get a surveyor on site as soon as possible. All anyone on Sailnet can do is speculate, and while entertaining for us, will do you little good. I'm sure that there will be posts regarding keel damage, and mast damage, etc, etc but rest assured that it's all speculative until a surveyor takes a good look.

Good luck to you.


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Don't stress about it until you can see it. Nothing you can do about it anyway.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Andreas,

Sorry to hear of your boat. Thank goodness you are safe. Sabreman offered good advice. Hoppefully she just floated off and rested gently. No sense in speculating the worst.

Dave


----------



## urbanhermit (Nov 15, 2010)

sorry to hear that, good luck.


----------



## AndreasNYC (Sep 6, 2010)

I already called the insurance company
I was just wondering if it is true in general that if the boat went went down slowly that it generally does not cause a lot of damage.

The insured value Of the boat is Only 18000 so I am worried the insurance company will just call it a write off...
Oh well might be time for a newer bigger boat
Thanks for the support everyone ...
Andreas


----------



## msmith10 (Feb 28, 2009)

If they total it out, it's not necessarily the end of the world. You need to have it surveyed in any case. If they survey isn't too bad and they total it out, you could potentially buy it back, pay for repairs and pocket the difference. Wait until you see the survey results.


----------



## THEFRENCHA (Jan 26, 2003)

A couple of pics from your marina are postes on annoter sailing forum
Of Lucy you might see yours Looks like minimal damages


----------



## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

That's good news. Sure hope it works out well for ya.


----------



## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

you need to look at it really closely to make sure keel and rudder and hull are still intact and functional.. 
have fun--glad you are well.


----------



## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

I was there right after the storm, already posted the pics on another thread. Remarkably few of the boats looked like they had any serious damage, other than scratches and a few tangled rigs/broken spreaders. Not sure whether there might be damage just from the weight of the hull on its side, but it looks like these boats all more or less floated gently down to their resting spots after playing a little bumper cars with each other and some trees...


----------



## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

I hope there is little damage to your boat. How were the boats that were in the slips? did they fair any better? I am considering Liberty Landing, if I start working in the city.


----------



## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

So you might have a couple hundred thousand tied up in your boat. You have 4 or 5 days warning that the hurricane of the century might be coming, and you throw you hands up and say "Oh well!? I'll bet your house is underwater ($ not H20) and that is somebody else's fault too.

My boat is the hole in the water from hell, it's been on hte hard for the past 4 years as I fix one disaster after another with it. I am barely keeping up with the normal deterioration. Plenty of days when a Sawzall and a dumpster makes more sense than working on it. I have liability insurance, but no coverage on the boat itself. In it's current state they'd total it for sure and give me a couple hundred bucks at best.

That doesn't mean I don't worry about my boat floating into your mega yacht and holing it. Nor does it mean I want to lose the hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars I've invested, even though you can't see that looking at her.

So this past Saturday my 8 year grandson tied her down properly. Four big screw anchors into the ground and 3" nylon straps over the boat. A line from the stern cleat to a post in the ground as well. It held, despite the pile of other boats stacked up against her. 

Of course they are lucky too. I don't see any damage to my boat, and I have before and after pictures. So if your boat damaged my boat because you said "Oh Well" then my lawyer is going to earn his keep even if you don't have insurance like I do.


----------



## MysticGringo (Oct 9, 2006)

GaryHLucas said:


> So you might have a couple hundred thousand tied up in your boat. You have 4 or 5 days warning that the hurricane of the century might be coming, and you throw you hands up and say "Oh well!? I'll bet your house is underwater ($ not H20) and that is somebody else's fault too.
> 
> My boat is the hole in the water from hell, it's been on hte hard for the past 4 years as I fix one disaster after another with it. I am barely keeping up with the normal deterioration. Plenty of days when a Sawzall and a dumpster makes more sense than working on it. I have liability insurance, but no coverage on the boat itself. In it's current state they'd total it for sure and give me a couple hundred bucks at best.
> 
> ...


Huh? Where is this coming from? When did he say he has a couple hundred thousand tied up in his boat... or call it a mega yacht? And you had an 8 year old putting anchor bolts into the ground and tying your boat down?

I'm confused.


----------



## AndreasNYC (Sep 6, 2010)

I was thinking about the idea of anchoring the boat, but it seems the lift generated by the boyancy would tear anything you put in the ground out very quickly. 
My next idea was stand craddles that simply float with the boat... those could more easily be anchored to not drift (they would not have to fight boyancy) 
I think it might be a niche in the market going forward...


----------



## AndreasNYC (Sep 6, 2010)

Oh and the Marina was strongly recommending putting the boat on the dry for the storm. 
I guess I could have noticed myself that the yard was all of 5 feet higher than the water line.


----------



## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

GaryHLucas said:


> So you might have a couple hundred thousand tied up in your boat. You have 4 or 5 days warning that the hurricane of the century might be coming, and you throw you hands up and say "Oh well!? I'll bet your house is underwater ($ not H20) and that is somebody else's fault too.
> 
> My boat is the hole in the water from hell, it's been on hte hard for the past 4 years as I fix one disaster after another with it. I am barely keeping up with the normal deterioration. Plenty of days when a Sawzall and a dumpster makes more sense than working on it. I have liability insurance, but no coverage on the boat itself. In it's current state they'd total it for sure and give me a couple hundred bucks at best.
> 
> ...


Just what do you do when the water climbs higher than your tie downs allow...

either the anchors pull or the boat stays under...either way you are no better off than the OP...

Just luckier


----------



## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

MysticGringo said:


> Huh? Where is this coming from? When did he say he has a couple hundred thousand tied up in his boat... or call it a mega yacht? And you had an 8 year old putting anchor bolts into the ground and tying your boat down?
> 
> I'm confused.


Reread the post. That is not what he said.


----------



## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

I was in NOLA rebuilding after Katrian came through. We had many pieces of equipment that float and then sat down. Damage depended on what they landed on from zero to severe. A near by marina had a lot of boats floated. Again, it just depended on where they came to rest. Some were simply placed back on stands. But the weight alone? If that did anything serious to the hull it strikes me as rather thin.


----------



## MysticGringo (Oct 9, 2006)

pdqaltair said:


> Reread the post. That is not what he said.


Yes he did:



GaryHLucas said:


> So you might have a couple hundred thousand tied up in your boat. You have 4 or 5 days warning that the hurricane of the century might be coming, and you throw you hands up and say "Oh well!?
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


The OP said his boat was worth $18,000... not $180,000. He's also the only one who said the words "oh well" up to that point.

I'm sure the "8 year grandson was a typo"... but I just don't think it's fair to jump on the OP with that aggressive of an attitude especially when prior to the storm everyone was advising and being advised to put the boats on the hard. And I doubt you're going to be able to argue with the marina about how high they jack up your boat when they are trying to put as many as they can on the hard. And then offer the solutions of a tied down that works under a narrow set of conditions that just happened to be reached by the surge in his area.

In truth, I like the idea. Hell, given similar conditions I'd adopt a similar idea... with some changes. Instead of tying down tight, I'd have the tie downs act more as anchors... give me 5 or 10 feet of movement do the boat can lift. Then use a cradle I can secure to the boat so it rides with her as she rises, and acts as a foot. In leu of a cradle, I'd probably try something ridiculous like glueing the stands to my hull, using ridged material clamped to the stands in order to form a home made cradle. Sure... it might not work, but my years of construction and architecture make me think I could give it a hell of a shot.


----------



## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

GaryHLucas said:


> So you might have a couple hundred thousand tied up in your boat. You have 4 or 5 days warning that the hurricane of the century might be coming, and you throw you hands up and say "Oh well!? I'll bet your house is underwater ($ not H20) and that is somebody else's fault too.
> 
> My boat is the hole in the water from hell, it's been on hte hard for the past 4 years as I fix one disaster after another with it. I am barely keeping up with the normal deterioration. Plenty of days when a Sawzall and a dumpster makes more sense than working on it. I have liability insurance, but no coverage on the boat itself. In it's current state they'd total it for sure and give me a couple hundred bucks at best.
> 
> ...


The OP is worried about his boat. You should try a little kindness.
You got lucky.


----------



## AndreasNYC (Sep 6, 2010)

Oh I get it now
he was taking a dig at me. 

Just for the record I DID exactly what the people at my yard said was the safest thing to do, which was haul the boat out. 

The boat was in fact already hauled out over a week before the storm because that was my plan for the season. 

So I am really not sure what I did wrong there. 

In the end you can only make the best preparation you can think of and hope for the best. 

Oh well, does not indicate I don't care, it just indicates it is best to take a calm approach to circumstances you can not change... 

the internet, its full of mean people

Andreas


----------



## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

AndreasNYC said:


> Oh I get it now
> he was taking a dig at me.
> 
> Just for the record I DID exactly what the people at my yard said was the safest thing to do, which was haul the boat out.
> ...


Andreas,

you did the best you could, given the circumstances. the idea that you can build a cradle, attach it to the boat, and that it would not affect the buoyancy of the boat is internet madness at it's finest.....even if there were some miraculous material to build it from, how do you control where and when the boat sits back down.

I have seen moored boats break their mooring anchor and settle in the mud, whilst a slipped boat, not a mile away settled back down directly atop a piling with a 20" diameter 12" tall copper point on it, one was undamaged (mooring) the other constructive loss, as there was simply no way to remove it from the impaling without destroying the dock.

You do the best you can to prepare, you did; you have adequate insurance in case; and you take your self back to safe a place as you can find.

best of luck


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Someone would have had to do as they do in the Caribbean islands. they haul out, have some sort of place to ut the boats on the hard, and secure them via on land or in the ground, such that they will not float away. i also believe since they get hit a lot, they have land that is high enough to do this, so storm surges do not worry them. 

Reality is, the OP did the best he could, marina as well. If they were hit by monthly storms like this, they would ALL have a different setup to handle these monthly issues during the season. 

We will all hope that the boat is in repairable decent shape after what happened back there. 

Marty


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> the internet, its full of mean people
> 
> Andreas


Yes, and some of the ones here excercise their rights quite frequently with abandon

Sorry to hear what happened to you., You did all you could, bu mother nature sometimes wins out over the best laid plans. Hopefully you will recover easily and the damage is not too bad. Good luck and godspeed.

Dave


----------



## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Andreus,
You did everything that a reasonable person would have done. All you can do now is wait and see how it works out and hope for the best outcome.

I will say that I watched the storm surge on the Hudson roll in 2 blocks from the river. It came in very silently and smoothly, like the movie "The Blob". The flood waters also receded quickly but gently. The unprecedented storm surge knocked parts of NYC back to the dark ages for several days. Electricity and internet are back today after 5 days of candle light dinners.

I had also considered hauling my boat out, 30 miles north of Liberty Landing. I'm glad I did not as the same thing happened in Stony Point where many boats were knocked over that had been hauled out.  About two thirds (2/3) of the moored boats in Nyack slipped their moorings. We were part of the lucky one third that survived with mooring tackle in tact. 

It is going to take Liberty Landing some time to untangle the mess.

We are just lucky to not have called Breezy Point or the Rockaways (or Jersey shore) home.


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Andreas, you followed the conventional wisdom and usually that would have been right. In fact, it still is right except someone forgot to ask "How high will the storm surge be?" and if you are parked 5'ASL with a 10-11' storm surge coming...that's useless.

This is not the only "oops" from this storm nor is it the biggest one, so don't kick yourself too hard.

The best way to ride out something with that big a surge, IMO, would be either tied to screw anchors in sheltered water, or tied alongside a floating dock which had enough pylon height to ensure the dock wouldn't float off the pylons. And you'd have a good time trying to find a dock that could float up an EXTRA dozen feet without breaking free of them. Likewise, a snowball's chance in hell of finding a good sheltered spot to anchor/moor the boat just for the storm.

So floating off the jackstands, playing bumper cars and then coming aground again, might have been the least risky way to go with a bad situation.

Unless the boatyard has been formally condemned and placed off limits by a government agency, you should be able to ask the operators when and how you can arrange to enter with an escort, if needed, to assess the damage. And gently remind them that if you are not allowed to assess and MITIGATE damage, that you will have to hold them responsible for any FURTHER damage that occurs. That just might motivate them a bit. Hardhat, work boots, safety gear, idiot repellant...Yeah, sure. Proper attire is always appropriate but telling folks they can't come in at all? Nuh-uh. 

There's already been way too much CYA and politicking and pretending going on by powers on high. All the pretending is just endangering people, while proper aid is not being brought in on the scope it needs to be.


----------



## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

I see I mis-typed. Left out "and I" after grandson.

My reference to couple of hundred thousand was not about the OPs boat, it was about the pile of boats around mine, some that certainly cost that much.

My straps and anchors were sized to hold the boat down even if the water reached the cockpit and flooded her. If it got that deep and she floated and left town it would have been a total loss. Tied down this way might have gotten the boat flooded, but that would be quick to drain out.

Tall cradles along with anchors and tie down straps are a great idea. My boat is under repair with the keel off, so some options were not available at the time.

There is nothing you can do that will absolutely guarantee that your boat won't be damaged. Look at the pictures from the storm. How many boats can you count that would not be damaged if they had simply been tied down? You can't, because there are just too many to count! How many didn't move and were smashed to bits? I'd bet that is just a handful. So for the $200 I spent on anchors and straps we could have saved maybe 98% of the boats in the photos?

Gary H. Lucas


----------



## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

AndreasNYC said:


> Oh I get it now
> he was taking a dig at me.
> 
> Just for the record I DID exactly what the people at my yard said was the safest thing to do, which was haul the boat out.
> ...


Andreas,
I see you thought I was aiming a dig at you. I assure that was not my intent. You'll notice I use my real name, and if you google me you'll find that I've been on the Internet a very long time, and don't ever attack people, or engage in flaming people. I always try to help, not hurt.

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Gary H. Lucas


----------



## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

II'm in the hudson. The thing that strikes me is - if an owner knew the surge was going to b 10'-12' and the marina elevation is less than that, then isn't it a huge mistake to haul out We hauled out to much higher elevation, so no worries there, then came back and found the boats on the dock and moorings did fine.


----------



## lillia28 (Aug 12, 2011)

I want to believe that unless the boat was subject to flooding or pounding surf, damage will be slight. There are numerous boats which have broken free and been deposited on lawns etc. For the most part they dont seem to badly damaged. Sailboats seem to fare slightly better than powerboats. My boat is in Sea Bright, the National Guard is preventing anyone from entering the town. I know Atlantic Highlands marina will not let anyone in. There are a couple of marinas you can see from the Garden State Parkway, some boats are scattered, but a relatively small proportion. Most of the masts seem to be standing straight. Of course that's driving by at 70 MPH. I'm guessing it will be worse than you hoped, better than you feared. There are a lot of us sweating it out. I would have preferrred to keep the boat moored, but the club I am at closed for the season and ordered me off. I winter at the same Marina every year, and they have always been good to me. Given the storm surge it would have been dicey either way. 
My family and house are safe, although we are still without power. Seeing what some folks have suffered, I am too grateful for what has survived to get crazy over what May not have. In a less than perfect world you make less than perfect decisions. Good luck and don't loose hope.
L


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

We alkways stay at the moorings behind the breakwater at Atlantic Highlands and have reciprocity with the YC there. Very nice club. Hope your boat and the club sustained minimal damage as you are right in the worst area of devastation.

Dave


----------



## lillia28 (Aug 12, 2011)

Thanks Dave. There are 15 families living in our church because they lost their homes. In one sense I feel foolish even worrying about it when that is going on. A good friend has his boat at AHMH. Neither of us could get in, but the rumors are not good. I am lucky that I have a house to worry in. 
Sorta glad I don't have a generator. Somehow it is easier to be angry at JCPL than to be worried about running out of gas for the generator. 
Some scary pictures on the web!
Lou


----------



## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

GaryHLucas said:


> So you might have a couple hundred thousand tied up in your boat. You have 4 or 5 days warning that the hurricane of the century might be coming, and you throw you hands up and say "Oh well!? I'll bet your house is underwater ($ not H20) and that is somebody else's fault too.
> 
> My boat is the hole in the water from hell, it's been on hte hard for the past 4 years as I fix one disaster after another with it. I am barely keeping up with the normal deterioration. Plenty of days when a Sawzall and a dumpster makes more sense than working on it. I have liability insurance, but no coverage on the boat itself. In it's current state they'd total it for sure and give me a couple hundred bucks at best.
> 
> ...





GaryHLucas said:


> I see I mis-typed. Left out "and I" after grandson.
> 
> My reference to couple of hundred thousand was not about the OPs boat, it was about the pile of boats around mine, some that certainly cost that much.
> 
> ...





GaryHLucas said:


> Andreas,
> I see you thought I was aiming a dig at you. I assure that was not my intent. You'll notice I use my real name, and if you google me you'll find that I've been on the Internet a very long time, and don't ever attack people, or engage in flaming people. I always try to help, not hurt.
> 
> I apologize for the misunderstanding.
> ...


I think the bottom line is that you should have started your own thread. Any comments in a thread should be related to either the OP or comments in the thread. It can be miss construed when you post unrelated things in a post. Even worse when it is obviously a rant as it appears to be aimed at the OP without clear description otherwise.

Good to see your boat survived with what can be seen as little damage. I know they normally strap down boats in the islands, and sometimes even dig holes for the keel (kind of like how your keel was removed) to reduce the free board that is exposed to the wind. I have always thought the stands look precarious in good weather conditions, and boy standing on the deck of a fairly deep draft boat can sure look high when looking down!

I find it interesting that it is almost universal that insurance companies are recommending hulling out, but seems that it is not really the best way to reduce damage.


----------



## lillia28 (Aug 12, 2011)

Just found a couple of pics of my boat on Flicker from post storm!! She is on stands and doesn't look too bad. Can only see the port side, but I am a happy guy right now! She may have toppled and been reset, but at least in one piece! Keep the faith!
Lou


----------



## AndreasNYC (Sep 6, 2010)

Gary H. Lucas
Ok I understand, thanks for explaining.


----------



## azguy (Jul 17, 2012)

any update OP ??


----------



## AndreasNYC (Sep 6, 2010)

I got some pics of the Boat today
looks like there are some significant scratches on the side where it rested. 
There is no indication on the interior so far but I imagine its a bit of a mess. 
I have the pics but I don't know how to put them on here... sorry. 
I will probably be able to look at the boat by Friday and see how bad the interior is. 
If the interior was flooded it could still be quite bad. 
more as I get it
A


----------



## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

Hoping for the best for you.


----------



## 2d Wind (Jun 30, 2011)

lillia28 said:


> Just found a couple of pics of my boat on Flicker from post storm!! She is on stands and doesn't look too bad. Can only see the port side, but I am a happy guy right now! She may have toppled and been reset, but at least in one piece! Keep the faith!
> Lou


Hi,

Would you mind posting a link to the photos you found? Our boat is in Sea Bright too and best guess is that it floated off stands. We think we located it near the Waterways town homes, but have been scouring internet for more information.

Thanks!


----------



## AndreasNYC (Sep 6, 2010)

I would love to post the images but I am not familar with the process of getting my images hosted... How do I do that ?


----------



## AndreasNYC (Sep 6, 2010)

Images removed - possibly security risk

did that work ?


----------



## johnnyandjebus (Sep 15, 2009)

Andreas

One way is to get an account at a photo hosting site like photobuckt.com. Load the pics to your account, once loaded the site will provide you with a url that you can use to "link" the pics here(or anywhere else on the net) Basically copy the image's url from photobucket, click on the insert image icon here and paste in the url.

Good to here the boat survived more or less, lets hope the damage remains superficial.

John


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Yes...looks like the boat has a surface rash...that can be fixed. All in all on first glance you got away well all things considering. Glad you pulled through


----------



## 2d Wind (Jun 30, 2011)

All in all, doesn't look too bad, will keep fingers crossed that's the case


----------



## HeartsContent (Sep 14, 2010)

Looked at a boat that was knocked off its stands in Wilma. There was structural damage and clear water damage. The structural damage was repaired, the water damage was evident on the interior wood.

I am having a hard time envisioning the concept of a "soft" landing as the water would have been churning leading to slamming on the hard. Not good.

With an 11' surge, I can't image how tie downs would hold but am sure interested in hearing if they did. Even anchored, once floated it would seem the stands would get washed out.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Looks repairable. How did the interior fare?

If I can see correctly, there only looks to be 5 stands? Pretty light, particularly with the nor'easter coming.


----------



## lillia28 (Aug 12, 2011)

RedBankGreen » POST-SANDY, A BRIGHTER SEA BRIGHT

is the link to the post storm pics. Also some video on ahnj.com and ahyc.net.
Hard to tell from the pics. That might buff out. I can imagine a "soft" landing, but floating debris and other boats banging around can make the landing the easy part. A pic of my friends boat at AHMH shows a picnic table and a dink under the boat which is on its side, the stb stands under the boat. I also worry about the second high tide and water intrusion.
There's is a sea bright video on Youtube. Houses and buildings were blown over. I've been without power for 8 days, so I can't see the actuals, by Wx cahnnel was calling for 15-20 foot storm surge and 21 foot wave heights. I would have felt better at a mooring, but it was not an option.
lou


----------



## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

lillia28 said:


> RedBankGreen » POST-SANDY, A BRIGHTER SEA BRIGHT
> 
> is the link to the post storm pics. Also some video on ahnj.com and ahyc.net.
> Hard to tell from the pics. That might buff out. I can imagine a "soft" landing, but floating debris and other boats banging around can make the landing the easy part. A pic of my friends boat at AHMH shows a picnic table and a dink under the boat which is on its side, the stb stands under the boat. I also worry about the second high tide and water intrusion.
> ...


What is stunning about the photos of the damaged buildings is the undercutting of the foundations which, in most cases, seem to have been spread footings in sand only a shallow depth below the surface. How anyone could have expected such construction to endure any flooding event escapes me.


----------



## azguy (Jul 17, 2012)

Looks like it could have been worse....have you been on the boat yet to do a real appraisal of the damage ?


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Frightening just frightening. Looks like the stone and concrete seawall offered some protection if only for a while.


----------



## 2d Wind (Jun 30, 2011)

Thanks for the info. 

Keeping fingers crossed for all that will be safe and dry during this new storm, and that it doesn't make situation worse.


----------



## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

HeartsContent said:


> Looked at a boat that was knocked off its stands in Wilma. There was structural damage and clear water damage. The structural damage was repaired, the water damage was evident on the interior wood.
> 
> I am having a hard time envisioning the concept of a "soft" landing as the water would have been churning leading to slamming on the hard. Not good.
> 
> With an 11' surge, I can't image how tie downs would hold but am sure interested in hearing if they did. Even anchored, once floated it would seem the stands would get washed out.


A lot of areas seemed to have a relatively smooth surge, if that is possible. I think it was because they were somewhat protected by sea walls and the like from the waves and the water kind of just flowed in more like an extra high tide rather than a 11 foot wall of water.


----------



## lillia28 (Aug 12, 2011)

Don't mean to hijack Andreas' thread.
Andreas, looking at the pics, I'm pretty sure that will rub out, but your arm will be really tired!  That is a beautiful boat. Hopefully we can raft up next season.
Sea Bright is traditionally a beach community, so summer cottages and beach clubs, not Hurricane proof fortresses. In the last 150 years, Sandy Hook has been an island more than once, with the Navesink opening to the ocean pretty much through Sea Bright. They are electronic "newspaper" photos, and I'm guesing buildings NOT damaged are not dramatic. So no pics of your house or boat is a good thing! The Sea Wall was breached, at least according to rumor. But every town on the water got creamed, IMHO from surf more than wind.
Lou


----------



## AndreasNYC (Sep 6, 2010)

She's Dead Jim...

Unfortunately the insurance adjuster took one look at the fact that my engine got wet and called the boat an entire write off. 

On an emotional level it is very sad as I was attached to this boat. 

On a practical level its actually helpful because I was already in the process of buying a bigger boat and was trying to decide what to do with this one. 

I am putting the salvage boat up for sale, it would cost around $2000. 

I put a listing in the sales section of the Sailnet. 

The inspector made no effort to see if the engine still runs and there is no surface corrosion. I have no idea what that means. 

thanks for the support everyone

Andreas


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Andreas, what is the boat, an Aloa something? What was the appraised or insured valued beforehand?

From your first pictures I can see one problem, a complete hull repaint would be needed, a fast $5-10,000. Now if the engine was submerged, another fast $3000? to repair it or $10,000 to replace it. Plus replacing all electricals in the boat if the engine indicates water was in the boat.

A little fast math, versus insured value, and if the company totals at 50% or even 75% ? Sometimes the math is wrong but given the cost of any kind of hull painting plus any kind of total engine overhaul, I can see it, without even trying to itemize other problems.

No surface corrosion would just mean no obvious signs of rust on the outside of the engine.

Once an engine has been submerged AND allowed to dry out slowly, it has to be totally torn down to be rebuilt. There will be rust and salt crystals all through it. 

Sometimes, it is feasible to buy the salvage rights and fix the boat. Someone out there may very well decide that for two grand, they can live with a DIY paint job on the hull and swapping out the engine themselves, and for that the boat could be a bargain. Although, there may be a glut of storm-damaged boats on the market right now.


----------



## AndreasNYC (Sep 6, 2010)

The boat is a 1973 Aloa 34. 
If there is someone out there who is interested in doing his own work it might well be worth it. 
Shrug. 
I had already decided to buy a new larger boat so on a financial level its a win, on an emotional level its very sad.


----------



## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Bummer.

Simple question - if it's a write off, why are YOU selling it instead of them?


----------



## AndreasNYC (Sep 6, 2010)

Well they are going to tell me the salvage value. 
I can then decide to just take that money from them, in which case they keep the boat. 
Or I can try to find someone to might be willing to pay the same amount or more. 
I have a couple of days to do this. At that point the insurance company will need a decision. I am really just doing it on the off chance the boat won't get trashed. Cause you know that all the insurance company will do with it. 

HelloSailor: what would happen if you just try to start the engine now? assuming it has a clean fuel supply? What do the salt crystals do?


----------



## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Your engine has become a mooring block, one big hunk of rusting steel. At the most you have hours in the low hundreds if not less before it is locked up and dead. That's best case.

If you have a lot, and I mean a LOT of upgraded stuff like winches and other high price items it might make sense to salvage, or a buyer lined up of course. Otherwise you are paying storage, then possibly cut up and haul away fees. 

Consider your choices carefully, from the wallet, not the heart.


----------



## lillia28 (Aug 12, 2011)

Sorry to hear that! They've opened Sea Bright and I am going down this morning to see how the Mariner did. Given the number of boats damaged, almost all of them, I suspect the insurance companies will be quick to "total" a lot of boats, especially older boats. Write a check and be done or be on the hook for months or years and involved in complicated repairs on boats with limited resale because they are too old to get financing? Seems like a no brainer to me. There will be thousands of salvaged boats from NY and NJ. Andreas, glad you have another boat in the works!
Lou


----------



## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Andreus,
I am so sorry to hear about your Aloa 34'. There are many low lying boat yards that were overcome by the storm surge where boats got knocked over so you are by no means in this alone. 
I know that you worked hard to get the old Farymann diesel sorted out by having a new exhaust manifold fabricated. The problem with Farymann engines is getting replacement parts as you found out. When you look for your next boat I'd urge you to avoid boats with Farymann engines in them. I'd avoid Volvos too; while there are parts available they are very expensive. 
My boat was "totaled" by insurance once but I could not live with the idea that I'd killed my boat, so I bought it back from them and took the remaining insurance money and fixed her up again.


----------



## lillia28 (Aug 12, 2011)

Well back from the marina. The boat was floated into a pile with 32 other boats.
The bow pulpit, and all the lifeline stanchions on the starboard side are bent to 90 degrees, the starboard teak handrail is gone, there is a deep hole between the windows and much of the teak trim is broken, the starboard stern pushpit is bent to 45 degrees. More importantly, the rudder looks bent to the right, and it looks like the outboard was flooded. I didn't place a high insurance $ value on the boat, so I am afraid they will total it. Plus there is a salvage claim against it. I swore I wouldn't let it bother me, but it does.
Lou


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Very sorry to hear about your boat.

I assume water entered the interior, when she began to layover and water came over the gunnel due to the extreme heel angle? 

Makes me wonder if that is commonly the case with all the beached boats we've seen over the years. I'm glad to think I don't know.


----------



## lillia28 (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm not sure exactly what happened. The cabin remained pretty dry. Seems more like a boat landed on the starboard side, all the stanchions are bent forward. seems like most collision damage. The engine looks flooded, no battery power at the moment, and the bottom of the rudder is about 2 inches further to the right than the top. The flooding was about 6 feet above ground level, and apparently 32 boats got swept into a big pile between buildings. I can't really tell if the mast is straight. 
Re flooding: in this case once the storm surge went down, it did not come up nearly as high again. On a "normal" grounding I tend to agree with you, but happily have no direct experience. There are boats high and dry all over the area, in places that seem to be well above sea level. A lot of floating docks went over the tops of pilings, which are 15 feet high?
Lou


----------



## bruceyp (Aug 4, 2006)

I am reviving this thread because I too had a boat in Sea Bright, NJ and she also floated off her stands. I'll say right off that my wife and I (not to mention my granddaughter) love this boat. 
As luck would have it, when we hauled 3 weeks before the storm, I decided to take the mast down to check the rigging the furler etc. When the storm surge floated her off her stands the Hannah Lee looks to have floated in a circle bumped into a building and was then surrounded by 3 other boats. I was able to get to her a few weeks ago and found her scratched moderately but generally in good condition. The worst wear was under her bow where she must have been chafing on another boat, but even this is pretty cosmetic. There was no evidence of any water inside. The rudder turns stop to stop without a hitch. The keel has it's same old C&C smile but no other damage. The prop and shaft are intact and run true. I have started and winterized the engine with no problem. The mast on the other hand was under water and the head stay looks un-wound on the top near the fitting that is swaged on. The furler also was under water.
I thought that this was really good news until yesterday when the surveyor called and hinted that the repaint job alone could exceed their value for the boat. He hasn't finished the paperwork so the exact numbers aren't available yet.
So here are my questions:
If they "total " the boat, is their "buy back" price negotiable? Are there ways to mitigate the approximately $300/ foot repaint costs? (Tip and Brush it myself? Ugh.) What would I need to do to the mast to minimize the effects of the salt water bath? Is it possible to get a slightly used Furler? Are they difficult to install seeing that the mast is down? Would I have any trouble re-surveying the boat after the repairs so I could get the boat re-insured? What other issues am I likely to run up against?
Thanks for your input.
BruceyP


----------



## azguy (Jul 17, 2012)

Boy, that awful, but it makes me think...what is a sailboat really worth today...after reading many of these storm threads both on this site and others I have heard of nobody that actaully had the insurance company OK repairs on their boat. It's almost always a total....

BTW, are you saying the quote was $300 a ft to repaint what was damaged...?


----------



## lillia28 (Aug 12, 2011)

I had an agreed value, so the price was not negotiated. If you did not have agreed value, I think you can negotiate, but no first hand experience.
Be careful, I understand that in NJ the title MUST be marked "salvaged". You will have a tough time selling later on. I'd ask the ins co. Aboutresurveying.
I read an article that 90% of furler problems are caused by improper installation. I would call Dave at 
Eggers in So Amboy. He can give you better advice. He does great work, and prices are reasonable. 
Where in sea bright were you?
Lou


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Brucey-
"If they "total " the boat, is their "buy back" price negotiable? "
Everything is negotiable. But be aware that if they total the boat out, whether they transfer it to a salvage title or not (check your state laws) the boat will be a total and you may not be able to get anything more than liability insurance on it afterwards. Check with your insurer and your state about local rules and process.

"Are there ways to mitigate the approximately $300/ foot repaint costs?" Sure, you get bids. Odds are any shop with an environmentally controlled paint booth will charge the same thing. Might be able to fit you in next spring. Guys who work out of a trailer illegally in a field will be cheaper, and some are even good at keeping the gnats out of the paint. Mitigate? Not really, but you can shop around for price and quality. Sometimes you can sail or haul to a shop 200 miles away and simply get a better price.

"What would I need to do to the mast to minimize the effects of the salt water bath?"
Wash in fresh water ASAP. What's done is done and AFAIK there's no "neutralizing", you just wash it to stop any further salt damage.

" Is it possible to get a slightly used Furler? Are they difficult to install seeing that the mast is down?" There are consignment shops that carry used gear, somewhere on the forums I'm sure there's a list. Hard to install? Nuts and bolts and instructions. Is it hard to build a swing set, tricycle or bbq?

"Would I have any trouble re-surveying the boat after the repairs so I could get the boat re-insured? " Yeah, from the top. Once totalled, some insurers won't touch it. You need to start with your state insurance commission to find out the laws, then ask your insurer, because sometimes they also lie. One of the things they lie about is the value of your boat, again, ask your state insurance commission who or if they are allowed to determine that value, and make sure they have followed the rules. With a car, I've seen an insurer with a top name literally cheat, break the rules, and finally raise their offer nearly 400%.

Think of this as a high-stakes poker game. They may be smiling at you, that doesn't mean they won't take you for everything if they can. If they treat you well and follow the rules--then come back to praise them afterwards. The few good guys deserve that.


----------



## lillia28 (Aug 12, 2011)

Acording to Don Casey, rolling and tipping is EASY! 
I'd be happy to give you a hand. I have discovered with no boat to work on, I have no life! Nothing to do but rake leaves! 

IMHO, they'd rather close the file. Only boats I heard being repaired were very expensive, so a big gap between cost of repair and value of boat. Progressive had 1800 claims in NJ. I 
Started pricing parts, pulpits etc. Every one. said they'd like to sell me parts, but they advised 
Letting the boat go. Even diy gets very expensive very quickly.
Lou


----------



## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

I heard a story of a power boat owner on Long Beach Island,NJ that is being billed for 8,000 dollars by a salvage company plus another 800 dollars from the marina just to move a boat, that floated off it's jack stands, valued at around 2300 dollars...


----------



## bruceyp (Aug 4, 2006)

Thanks for the input all of you.
Lillia,
Lou, our boat is still at Carriage House Marina. I have read here and other places about hand painting. I get the theory but the actual results may not be what I had in mind, Don Casey, not withstanding. As for help, I'll keep you in mind. Where was your boat?
AZguy,
That price $300/ foot was for a total repaint of the hull.
Lillia, HelloSailor,
The title being marked Salvage and future insurance limitations I find to be a real problem. No matter how well I did the repairs, a Salvage title would make any resale value next to nothing. I will be checking up on the NJ insurance issues.
aa3jy,
Yeah, I already got the bill for the recovery and sent it to the insurance company. It was almost $5K. And our boat didn't go 50 feet. Makes me wonder if they are deducting that $5k from the stated value, leaving me with even less $.
I'll wait until I get the real info from the Insurance Company.I could make myself crazy (or crazier).
But I sure hate to lose the Hannah Lee.
B


----------



## lillia28 (Aug 12, 2011)

Brucey,
I was at. Carriage House also. I understand they had to rent a large crane for 10 days or so. My boat was in a pile of 32 boats. Cost of Salvage does factor in their decision to total. I had Progressive, their Cat team agent told me it was NJ law about marking the title, but definatly double check. They were useing $120.00 hour labor rate. That adds up fast.
Two part polyurethane top side paint is expensive, but we could strip off the first coat and do it over for a lot less than $300/ foot!
I am in Fair Haven, and I'm serious about helping. Been looking for a new boat. PM me if u start to look. I might be able to save you a trip or two. I am looking in the 28-30 ft range. Several project boats advertized as perfect condition.
Lou


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

$300 per foot for reprint is about standard. If you shop around, you may get it down to $250ish and be sure to have them throw in the haul and launch and perhaps unstepping/restepping the rig (doubt they will tune it for free). The way to negotiate is to get them to do the things that actually cost them virtually nothing on a marginal basis, but save you real money. But, be sure they are good painters, not some overspray wizard that always wanted to paint a boat.

There are guys around here that speak of a yard in Maine that is supposed to be very good and they talk of acquaintances that take their last sail of the season up there and leave her on the hard to be painted over the winter. They speak of it costing half, between paint and winter storage. I would have to track them down for the name.


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Custom Fiberglass 1-781-740-1067
Richie Doyle; Hingham, MA

Onceuponatime, these guys also had a top reputation for combining glass work with winter storage. I don't know what their rates are these days but if they are still around it could pay to call, they're the kind of shop that gets on the short list for kudos.


----------

