# Old boat fun means old boat work!



## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

As I've mentioned in my intro, we bought a fixer upper Tartan 27. She's seen better days but then again, so have I. We're the same age.










(That little bit of a boat you can see on the right is a free USYacht. I think it's a 24 or 25 footer. So, if anyone wants a free boat, there you go!)

We had a lot of initial cleaning up/tossing out to do. This is looking down at the port settee area. That cushion went into the dumpster. Pee-yewwww! The box holding those lines disintegrated when touched. Despite labels to the contrary, the engine is NOT in that small white container! 










That's ice in the bilge at the bottom of the picture. It had melted when we went back for our first clean up. We tried assaulting the dirty water with our wet vac. The wet vac did not like the process so we made a note to buy a hand pump and try again later.

I was able to persuade the husband to start removing teak doors and other things since the inside of the boat is, well, desperately in need of paint. You can see that here somewhat. Imagine paint chips all over and you get the idea.










(Anyone know what that slot might be for? Looks like something outta fit in there, but I don't see a matching slot on the other end, nor anything to slide in there. )

Pretty much anything inside the boat was thrown out or taken home to be cleaned up. I managed to ruin the sleeping bag in my attempt to wash it. Still the lines came out well. My couch is now covered in them, freshly laundered, untangled and sorted.

There were two sails (a main and a 140 genoa). They look to have been made circa 1984. They were mostly white  with a couple rusty colored stains. The sailbags were also stained and rather smelly so I washed them.

Twice.

Finally the house stopped smelling bilge-y. It should; I was washing things for almost a week. I've grown a bit of a tolerance for touching greasy yuk.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Round 2*

Armed with a relatively inexpensive hand pump, we went back for our next visit. I had two major tasks I wanted to accomplish:

1. Get the water out of the bilge
2. Tap into the glassed in chain plate knees to see if the plywood in there had rotted

I forgot to bring the camera to document progress (and to show off how much better things looked with just all the crap cleared out of there!).

A plan to siphon the bilge water out via garden hose and pump didn't work (hose didn't really fit) so we did it via bucket. Not sure how long that water had been there or where it had come from (no watermarks above the cabin sole that I ever saw though), but at the bottom were a lot of paint chips, various soggy paper debris, two rubber squares of uncertain function, and a bilge cover from a smaller section up in the V-berth. At last we could see the bottom of the bilge and the keel bolts and what not. The wet vac that had been so disgruntled last week cheerfully slurped the last of the water and paint ships out of the three compartment we drained. I immediately poured in some Simple Green and some fresh water and am letting it sit there to contemplate the error of its greasy ways.

I'd seen this on the deck:










Sure enough, when husband drilled into the fiberglassed in knees below, the plywood came out looking like compost. Water leaked out of the hole to boot. Not surprised, really but now we have three chainplates that need fixin'.

Which means we have to get stuff out of the way. Like the head:










The chain plate is hanging out behind the shelves there, in a perfectly rotten place to do any work on it. The opposite deal is in the hanging locker, equally lousy for working on.

I wouldn't mind taking the whole hanging locker out anyway. It's all very cramped in the head/locker/galley area and getting rid of some of it would open things up.

Something that looked like a good idea was to fabricate the new knees out of fiberglass board rather than plywood. Like so:










Or even to just glass in the knee and leave the chainplate on the outside, like this:










It's a bit intimidating of a procedure for us newbies, but so many people have done it, there's a lot of references out there to study.

Next Friday is the insurance survey. Should be interesting to see what he has to say. We'll work on getting those shelves out and dismantling the rest of the trim/doors and what not to get the interior as cleaned out as we can for working around in there.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Hey Kim—

That boat looks like she has good bones. Have you read "The Coast of Summer" by Anthony Bailey yet? If not, you really should. It's a good book and features a Tartan 27 sailing the waters from Long Island Sound through Buzzards Bay and the Islands.


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## marianclaire (Feb 4, 2010)

We changed the hanging locker into shelf storage on the MC. Much better use of space. The shelves have edges and the vented baskets help with dampness. A few hooks around the cabin work for hanging wet items. Dan S/V Marian Claire


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Looking good guys!


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## Joesaila (May 19, 2007)

*Worth it!*

No doubt when finished you'll feel pride and you will know the boat inside and out. Keep us in the loop!


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## tomwatt (Dec 11, 2009)

Congratulations on a great start neighbor! Can't say I'm not kicking myself from time to time for not going for the Tartan you got, but that's okay.
Ah, the smell of bilgewater. Mine was the same way. Haven't done the full cleanup yet, as I was in a hurry to get the water out of the bilge before it all froze.
I'm sure we'll all be anxious to see how you're coming along on your boat!


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Great job Daydreamer! I'm glad you're saving that boat. You've inspired me to really clean up my Coronado.


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## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

Nice job, I LOVE seeing threads like this! Keep up the good work!


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## MARC2012 (Mar 17, 2008)

Keep them comming,looking good.marc


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## slowpoke (Jan 25, 2010)

*love that boat*

great job, you will have one of the best boats going in my opinion, i hate to see them die.


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

The slot you identifed should have another one at the end of the bunk/seat. A back board fits in it so when you sit on the seat you will have a back rest the board is femoved to give you a wider bunk when sleeping.......I think!


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Great write up, keep us posted with progress. There has got to be a special place in heaven for people that resurrect neglected boats. Good job!


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

SimonV said:


> The slot you identifed should have another one at the end of the bunk/seat. A back board fits in it so when you sit on the seat you will have a back rest the board is removed to give you a wider bunk when sleeping.......I think!


You know, that's what I thought too, otherwise you'd sort of be leaning awkwardly against the shelf behind the seat.
But I didn't find a matching slot anywhere.

And there was no board on the boat. No table either, for that matter. But that's ok, the table takes up too much room anyway.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*How do we remove trim?*

Since Friday is our "remove more stuff, get things out of the way" day, I am wondering how we remove trim that has no obvious screws. Like the thin trim in this photo. I don't really know that we MUST take it off, but if we want to, I have no idea how to go about it without snapping the wood.

Does one just pry it loose?

And how about bits like this?










I can see circular wooden "plugs" flush with the wood on the front of the rail but other than the metal strip at the top, I don't see any screws holding the whole hatch rail-thingie on.

(BTW, that out of focus compass is, by far, the shiniest thing on the boat. It looks brand spankin' new.)


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## MARC2012 (Mar 17, 2008)

If there are plugs there are screws under the plug.Plugs will not usually come out w/o being broken,gently chip out with knife.Can be made with plug bit & drill press(preferable) or bought.West has them aprox .40 a piece.When replacing little glue & line up grain best.Good luck,looking good.marc


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Be careful taking out the plugs, since if they were glued or varnished in place, they may try and take a bit of the wood around them with them. 

The top is probably fastened by the screws holding the aluminum piece down. The front is most likely the screws under the bungs/plugs.


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## drobarge (Mar 3, 2009)

sailingdog said:


> Be careful taking out the plugs, since if they were glued or varnished in place, they may try and take a bit of the wood around them with them.
> 
> The top is probably fastened by the screws holding the aluminum piece down. The front is most likely the screws under the bungs/plugs.


With plugs, I would get the new ones ready first. Try a test hole to ensure a good fit on scrap a sharp forstner bit is a good choice. Then to remove the old ones start with a center punch in the old plug, then drill carefully and with LIGHT pressure into the old plug to bring it below the surface, finish with some small picks and stuff. If you find the screws are stainless, not bronze or other soft metal, drill a little deeper until the bit just touches the screw (be careful) with a forstner bit the bradpoint should hit the screw first not dulling the bit and reducing chance of damage to screws.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Working on Round 3*



drobarge said:


> With plugs, I would get the new ones ready first.


So people make their own plugs then?

-------------------------

Anyway, the New Old Boat Owner experience marches on.

Today I mulled a lot about distance.

One thing going against us with regards to boat work is that we can only manage one day a week really; this is due to where the boat is relative to where we are. It's a 120 mile/2 hour drive one way. My husband works third shift and often pulls overtime which is hard to say no to and its been challenging to fit a long drive into a schedule that lets him sleep at some point in the day.

To that end, I am considering moving Tigress up to where we live. That's yet more money that I don't have at the moment. Also, I live in a townhouse, so don't have private property to put a boat onto. Finding a *close* place that has storage costs we can afford *and* let us work on it is... challenging. We're also a good hour inland from the ocean or other significant boating body of water, so its' not like there are boatyards around.

There is one marine shop, pretty much dealing in powerboats on trailers that I assume people then haul off to one of the various lakes up north, but he wanted 100/month + 25.00/mo in utilities. That's steep. (to me)

Oh well. Storage at the current yard is paid until end of June. I have until then to sort things out.

We went to Home Depot today, got a couple inexpensive items to help us continue our demolition. An angle drill thingie to get at things in places jabbing in your basic drill won't fit and an adorable screwdriver set to help take out -- you guessed it! -- screws.

Yes, I said it was adorable.

We also purchased a Black and Decker Mouse sander. We have our eye on a larger variable speed one, but expenses being as they are, we're starting small since we have small things to sand too. This has a finger attachment thing to get into narrow nooks. I know from looking already there are narrow nooks.

A multi-tool would probably make some of the work ahead easier. Fein seems to be THE ONE TO GET, but that's a bit out of our price range.

I'm also wondering that with the plethora of people who have replaced their Tartan 27s chain plate knees, if there isn't a template for the plywood knee available. I don't think we're gonna get a solid piece of anything out of this one, it looked like soil on the end of the bit. We'll see when we cut it open though.

Also am chasing down fun things like insurance (gotta have liability for the yard and what not), and documenting. I was gonna see if Boat US could help us with the documentation, but it seems they slap a pretty hefty fee on the top of the normal USCG fees. I don't see that the paperwork is $175.00 hard to be honest.

And other thing -- why does one have to measure their boat if it's a standard make/model? Shouldn't the USCG have at least one Tartan 27 already documented by now? I'd think in the age of computers and databases, someone could just tap in "Tartan 27" "1964" and see if it meets the size requirements.

Anyway, that's all this the stuff between Round 2 and round 3 coming up.

I'll remember to bring the camera Friday. Supposed to be quite nice of a day!


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

daydreamer92 said:


> So people make their own plugs then?
> 
> A multi-tool would probably make some of the work ahead easier. Fein seems to be THE ONE TO GET, but that's a bit out of our price range.


Unless you have lots of extra teak just laying around that you bought in bulk (like I do) buying the plugs is just as cost and time effective.

I just bought the $40 Harbor Freight version of the $400 Fein muti-tool and if it breaks I'll buy another. It's a slick little tool that I've already used to do some cutting off of a teak fiddle that would have been a real pain to do without it.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Daydreamer-

That commute is going to kill you. Time _is_ money. I'd either move the boat closer, or stay in a cheap hotel for the weekend so your husband can get sleep while working on the boat.

Once you get the boat cleaned up to a point, you may be able to sleep on it overnight on weekends while you're fixing it up, saving more money.

If you can't stay with the boat for the weekend due to household duties, then yeah, moving it closer is probably the real solution. The money and time you're blowing in commute costs is no worse than the $1200/year the powerboat place wants.

In fact, ask if you can get a lower rate from them if you promise to rent the space for longer period of time.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

daydreamer92 said:


> So people make their own plugs then?
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> ...


That makes it really difficult to get bigger projects done, since chopping them up into short periods of time can often make it harder to get a lot of progress done, since a larger percentage of time is spent cleaning and prepping.



> There is one marine shop, pretty much dealing in powerboats on trailers that I assume people then haul off to one of the various lakes up north, but he wanted 100/month + 25.00/mo in utilities. That's steep. (to me)
> 
> Oh well. Storage at the current yard is paid until end of June. I have until then to sort things out.


$100 per month is relatively cheap for marine storage prices... and the $25 for utilities isn't bad if it gives you access to running water and electricity as you need it.



> We went to Home Depot today, got a couple inexpensive items to help us continue our demolition. An angle drill thingie to get at things in places jabbing in your basic drill won't fit and an adorable screwdriver set to help take out -- you guessed it! -- screws.
> 
> Yes, I said it was adorable.
> 
> ...


There are some less expensive models that will do the job... but the Fein is awfully nice to have. Rockwell makes a pretty decent one.



> I'm also wondering that with the plethora of people who have replaced their Tartan 27s chain plate knees, if there isn't a template for the plywood knee available. I don't think we're gonna get a solid piece of anything out of this one, it looked like soil on the end of the bit. We'll see when we cut it open though.


Getting a template would be nice, but not necessary in many case.



> Also am chasing down fun things like insurance (gotta have liability for the yard and what not), and documenting. I was gonna see if Boat US could help us with the documentation, but it seems they slap a pretty hefty fee on the top of the normal USCG fees. I don't see that the paperwork is $175.00 hard to be honest.
> 
> And other thing -- why does one have to measure their boat if it's a standard make/model? Shouldn't the USCG have at least one Tartan 27 already documented by now? I'd think in the age of computers and databases, someone could just tap in "Tartan 27" "1964" and see if it meets the size requirements.
> 
> ...


Depends on what your time is worth? BoatUS can really simplify things, especially if the boat has not be documented before, since that requires a bit more work.


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

sailingdog said:


> That makes it really difficult to get bigger projects done, since chopping them up into short periods of time can often make it harder to get a lot of progress done, since a larger percentage of time is spent cleaning and prepping.


 Echo that..... I live 100 miles from my boat and by the time I get there, load the tools etc.... from the car to the boat, I just want to kick back and have a beer  Then its measure, take pictures, bring it all back home, make templates, next week try the templates that came out wrong after a few hundred more miles of driving....... and on and on...... all winter


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

BubbleheadMd said:


> Daydreamer-
> That commute is going to kill you. Time _is_ money. I'd either move the boat closer, or stay in a cheap hotel for the weekend so your husband can get sleep while working on the boat.


That would be nice, but we have dogs at home. We can't just leave them in their crates overlong; they gotta pee and poo and eat and what not. Silly animals and their necessary bodily functions!

Regarding time vs. money, I really do agree with those of you who say time *is* money. Without trying to sound impoverished, its the hauling costs that's hard to swing.

(Unless one of you nice people knows someone with a truck and a trailer who will haul for beer, pizza, gas money, and/or general good will.) 

We shall see. It's something to work towards, like anything else. At least I don't HAVE to move it right this instant. That's one positive.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Yeah, that's rough. I have a dog too. I've learned that a sailboat is a real commitment. I'm very fortunate to have my boat within walking distance from the house so that neither the boat nor the household duties are neglected.

It's good that you have time to come up with a plan and I wish you luck!


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

daydreamer: The Tartan 27 is one of those boats that just makes me smile when I see one. Thanks for letting us vicariously enjoy your restoration work. Please, keep the thread going.


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

Best of luck. Hope you resolve the time/distance issue. $100 a month is pretty cheap, plus $25. Go for it.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

daydreamer92 said:


> Today I mulled a lot about distance.
> 
> One thing going against us with regards to boat work is that we can only manage one day a week really; this is due to where the boat is relative to where we are. It's a 120 mile/2 hour drive one way. My husband works third shift and often pulls overtime which is hard to say no to and its been challenging to fit a long drive into a schedule that lets him sleep at some point in the day.
> 
> There is one marine shop, pretty much dealing in powerboats on trailers that I assume people then haul off to one of the various lakes up north, but he wanted 100/month + 25.00/mo in utilities. That's steep. (to me)


Do the math: When you add up your total transportation costs, you are already spending much more than $125/mo just getting to the boat, and getting a lot less done. Besides, sooner or later, as your projects get more complex, there will be one time that you get allll the way to the boat, and realize you forgot a tool, or a part, or something, and what should be fun becomes an exercise in frustration. The sooner you get it moved the better and cheaper your life is going to be, and the more you will get accomplished.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Storage: Check.*

Funny how $125 sounds so cheap to everyone but me. 

Tis a super gorgeous late winter/early spring day today. Wish I were at the boat.

Oh yeah, we were talking about storage.

There is a storage facility -- you know, buildings with doors that lock and open spaces for RVs, etc. -- just around the corner from us. Maybe five minutes away.

They have a couple spaces available. They are willing to let us work on the boat and even to use the electricity. If the electricity runs high, they'll add on a charge, but the space (35 x 14 or so, out of doors of course) is only $78/month at the internet rate.

We took a look and went ahead and reserved the spot. So storage space is achieved. Now to get it up here...

Anyone used uShip for moving quotes? If you did, find that satisfactory?

(p.s. I got This Old Boat today, the Don Casey book. Stuff to read!)


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

If you think the $125/mo storage is expensive, wait until you price teak and bottom paint and GOOD sandpaper and a good buffer and rigging and SS screws and....


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## cspaniel (Jan 12, 2010)

Daydreamer, I have used Uship several times, to move a Catalina 25 one of those times, about 125miles. All my experiences have been great. I never went with the cheapest, but with the one with the best reviews and the one that provided the most info and details. Even in that case the prices were excellent.
Good luck!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Since you're in New England...call Brownell, in Mattapoisett. They move boats all the time.

BTW, you'll find that having the boat closer to work on and being able to devote longer workdays to it will make projects go by much faster...



daydreamer92 said:


> Funny how $125 sounds so cheap to everyone but me.
> 
> Tis a super gorgeous late winter/early spring day today. Wish I were at the boat.
> 
> ...


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## tomwatt (Dec 11, 2009)

Brownell also will sell you the stands for the boat... you're going to need a set unless you can talk David out of the set it's sitting on. I'm looking to move my little boat up near me... a garage down the hill from me has a lot of empty yard space, and I'm working with the owner to arrange a deal.
Good luck on your Tartan, she's going to be a beauty when you're done!


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm ahead of you. 

Already asked him if we could buy the ones they are on. He doesn't want to part with 'em. He did mention having some bent ones, but I have no idea how to fix bent boat stands, and am not sure if that's even a good idea. 

Brownell sells 'em for $99.00 each (new, they don't have any used) which is... I know I know...not expensive to anyone else, but our pocketbook is shallow so we look for used when we can. Still shopping around.

I'll be very interested to see how your Bristol shapes up too. Please do post or make a blog! People seem to love watching progress, I know I do. 

Most old boats are like homeless animals to me, want to scoop them all up and treat them right. (esp. that cute little Tanzer down a couple boats, waiting for a home. And even that big wooden powerboat with the beautiful wooden stern and the flaking red bottom paint that rubs off on my butt when I bump against it going up the ladder could be something nice again)


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Craigslist is a good source for boatstands...


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## tomwatt (Dec 11, 2009)

daydreamer92 said:


> I'm ahead of you.
> 
> Already asked him if we could buy the ones they are on. He doesn't want to part with 'em. He did mention having some bent ones, but I have no idea how to fix bent boat stands, and am not sure if that's even a good idea.
> 
> ...


Yes I know, you guys are killing me.  It's not enough that I waffled between the Corsair and the Tartan and went for the Corsair (only to have doubts over and over again). I just today made a mental breakthrough, as I worked out some plans for refurbing that seem to solve almost all the space and facility problems I was wrestling with.
You can have the powerboats... I'm snagging all the kayaks (have two currently).
Make certain you guys arrange for all the proper goodies - boat stands, safety chain, and wooden blocking for the keel - when you go to move it. You don't want to cut corners and have your new baby boat go over on its side (and maybe smack a Hinckley in the process)!
I'll trade you rubbing red bottom paint for the stinky dead barnacles on that dock platform that nestled up against my boat!
You all have a lot more teak (or whatever) interior than I do. My interior is so spartan that it doesn't resemble the later, fancier Bristol Corsairs I've found pictured. That's okay, it's an invitation to spend more cash I don't have on mahogany.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

tomwatt said:


> Yes I know, you guys are killing me.  It's not enough that I waffled between the Corsair and the Tartan and went for the Corsair (only to have doubts over and over again).


Well, I'm glad you did waffle and choose the Bristol -- at least I *think* I'm glad. We'll find out once we see who gets in the water first and who is still fixing and rehabbing.



> You can have the powerboats... I'm snagging all the kayaks (have two currently).


I think I only pity this particular one 'cause it's wood and it looks sad.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Round 3: Boatyard Serendipity pt. 1*

Ever have one of those great days where everything just falls into place?

Me neither. But today came really close.

First off, the weather was GORGEOUS. ::flails arms about to emphasize:: It had to be in the 70s, clear, a little bit of a breeze. It was a great day to drive down to the yard and hang out on the boat. It could have only been better if we were on the water. It's still winter and I have the beginnings of a tan.

Today was survey day. I've got what I think seems a reasonable quote from BoatUS and the form said "need to have survey done". I'd asked on here and a couple folks had recommended Peter Hunt.

I'll say it now, he was great. A pleasure to work with, super friendly, happy to have us follow him around the boat like curious children and ask all sorts of questions. Well mostly I asked; the husband likes to practice the stoic Swede thing whereas I like things like, oh, communication. 

Even before Peter showed up, the day started out with a dose of good fortune. As we arrived in the yard, I saw a truck parked nearby with a business name and description on the back windows.

Me: "Hm, boat hauling? I shall stalk this person and ask him some questions and maybe get a quote!"

Turns out I didn't have to stalk very far; he and his wife were right there, clambering about a really adorable little full keel boat.

I pointed out the Tartan to them and conveyed the usual hauling quote stuff. Friendly Boat Hauling Guy said that indeed he could accommodate my needs and gave me a price about half of what uShip thinks I should be expecting and a bit under what other vendor gave. Whoo hoo! Score!

After that, we made boating small talk. I pointed around at the yard owned boats explaining how I came across my Tartan. When I pointed out the free USYacht, he and his wife went over to investigate it ("For parts!"), then asked me who they'd contact for it. I gave 'em the info and off they went. Later that day, they showed up again, having apparently followed through. Looks like the yard is gonna have at least one open space for the summer.

The USYacht







Perhaps I have a future in cheap boat brokering. I could work my way up from Free.

Husband and I then enjoyed the sunny late morning with a late breakfast donut (him) and croissant (me) and bottled water up in the cockpit of Tigress. Om nom nom nom.

*Behold! Queen of all I survey! *








_(the really cute little full keel boat is the uncovered one to the left of the green-tarped boat in the middle of the photo. Not sure it shows up well. A Pearson Ariel, maybe?)_


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Daydreamer, if you are not a writer of books and such, you have truly missed your calling.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Round 3: Water, water, everywhere and not a drop you'd drink.*

After our snack, we rolled up our sleeves (okay, they were already short) and prepared to do some work.

Here is a shot of our "professional grade Going to the Boat" tool kit.










The Home Depot bags add that extra touch of class.

Our first task was to clean out the bilge. We'd dumped 15 or so gallons of water back in after the first cleaning, along with some Simple Green and left it to steep over the week.

I was on bucket emptying/photo documentation duty. Husband was not. Pump like you mean it, Swede boy.










After about 20 gallons, I opined that this sure seemed like a lot more that *we* had put in. We think it (mostly) leaked in via the leaky cockpit ice box locker, wasn't handled via the little scuppers and managed to flow out into the cabin via the now-doorless opening there.










Said icebox, viewed as if you were looking into it via the cockpit. Gasket is hard and chipped. That's a heater to the right that we found in there the first day. It was in an inch of water for who knows how long. There was also a little single burner stove soaking there, too.

After several empty buckets later, the bilge was clean. Ok. It was *empty*.

_Look, Ma! I kin see the keel bolts!_





















As small/shallow as these might appear, I swear they held enough water to stock a dolphin tank at Sea World. And this is AFTER some Simple Green treatment. Think what they looked like when they were full of paint chips and Items of Uncertain Origin!

Future plans are to *really* clean them, along with their narrower friends fore and aft, and slap some BilgeKoat down.


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## tomwatt (Dec 11, 2009)

To quote the guy from *dirty jobs* - "I can smell it now!"

Bilge water is *so* delightful! And I'm kind of afraid to look in mine, as I think it seems to let water in someplace, too.

If you don't write a book, you ought to at least start a blog with your writing and boat buildup. I bet you'd get a following, maybe even end up in broadcast!


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

tomwatt said:


> To quote the guy from *dirty jobs* - "I can smell it now!"
> 
> Bilge water is *so* delightful! And I'm kind of afraid to look in mine, as I think it seems to let water in someplace, too.


I like that show! He's easy on the eyes to boot.

We did relate our "how the hell did we get 2x as much water in here as we left it" tale to Peter the Surveyor and he laughed and made a joke how it had never been rainy this week. In essence, he didn't seem surprised or concerned that the bilge had so much water in it; "It finds a way." He related that a boat he'd surveyed earlier this morning had a whole lotta water in it from the rain and it was only eight years old, not 45.

So I took that to heart. I still think it probably mostly leaked in through the closed icebox lid, got past the baffle and waterfalled onto the port side quarter berth.

I dunno if you have anything like that on your gal, but I put a folded up tarp over that part of the cockpit and set a bucket full of water on it to hold it down. Hopefully if/when it rains hard again, it'll deter some of the leakage.


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## tomwatt (Dec 11, 2009)

daydreamer92 said:


> We did relate our "how the hell did we get 2x as much water in here as we left it" tale to Peter the Surveyor and he laughed and made a joke how it had never been rainy this week. In essence, he didn't seem surprised or concerned that the bilge had so much water in it; "It finds a way." He related that a boat he'd surveyed earlier this morning had a whole lotta water in it from the rain and it was only eight years old, not 45.
> 
> So I took that to heart. I still think it probably mostly leaked in through the closed icebox lid, got past the baffle and waterfalled onto the port side quarter berth.
> 
> I dunno if you have anything like that on your gal, but I put a folded up tarp over that part of the cockpit and set a bucket full of water on it to hold it down. Hopefully if/when it rains hard again, it'll deter some of the leakage.


My lil' honey has a plain-jane cockpit, no lockers just a stern lazerette. Biggest issue I think I've got is the lack of weather deck, water pours over the low step into the cabin. However, that will be the second project, after the hull gets cleaned and repainted.
Water in a boat? Who'dda thought that? Even the cleanest boat I've been in had a faint musty smell. I think it's the norm.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Building a bridgedeck is pretty easy. I added one to my boat a while back to solve this same problem. If you need advice, let me know.


tomwatt said:


> My lil' honey has a plain-jane cockpit, no lockers just a stern lazerette. Biggest issue I think I've got is the lack of weather deck, water pours over the low step into the cabin. However, that will be the second project, after the hull gets cleaned and repainted.
> Water in a boat? Who'dda thought that? Even the cleanest boat I've been in had a faint musty smell. I think it's the norm.


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## tomwatt (Dec 11, 2009)

sailingdog said:


> Building a bridgedeck is pretty easy. I added one to my boat a while back to solve this same problem. If you need advice, let me know.


Thanks SD. Actually I snagged several layout ideas from plastic classic and sailfar so I should be all set... before I'm all done, I'm going to be an expert at strip-plank/fiberglass/epoxy constructions, as variants on that conform to the shapes I want to use to modify the interior of my boat.


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## Baywind (Dec 7, 2008)

*Cleaning the hull*

I have a 1979 that was in about the same shape as yours. I finally go to the hull this year after spending most of last summer getting the rigging fixed. Sailed from August until October. This year I am working on more of the aesthetics.

My hull was dull. Maine Sail has a great thread about how to restore the gelcoat, but I just wanted to get it clean. I bought "Bar Keepers Friend" at Walmart for $1.75 (next to the Comet). I used it on a wet rag almost as a paste. I can't believe how well the boat looks. It was like a compound, but with the whitening of bleach. It seems like a good place to start with an old boat.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Round 3, cont.: THE SURVEY (da-DUMMM)*



Baywind said:


> My hull was dull. Maine Sail has a great thread about how to restore the gelcoat, but I just wanted to get it clean. I bought "Bar Keepers Friend" at Walmart for $1.75 (next to the Comet). I used it on a wet rag almost as a paste. I can't believe how well the boat looks.


Thanks! Our gelcoat is nice and dull and chalky. I want to paint it, but that's a "want" more than a "need" so your suggestion might well be put to good use!

-----------------------------------------

Peter the Surveyor shows up just when he said he would and we welcome him to our Good Old Boat. Peter is dressed in khaki/tan shirt and pants and has hair long enough to wear a tidy braid. If it weren't for the boatshoes he were wearing (and the fact I know he is a marine surveyor), he'd look like one of those really cool wildlife experts that show up at your school with an eagle or two on his arm and tell you all sorts of neat stuff like how owls eat mice whole and barf all the hair and bones up later.

He later on tells me that he is a musician (I believe he said he plays the violin and his cell phone tweets a catchy Vivaldi tune when it rings), so scratch the eagle and owl barf and add in a Stradivarius or two and Mozart stories instead.

At any rate, he asks us for our story; what's our plans for the boat, how did we come by this boat, why this boat, all that. We gave him our story, newbie owners, husband has 14 years of sailing experience, mostly dinghies but sometimes larger, and I know enough to be dangerous.

I asked if we could follow him around and watch what he was doing, he said sure. He went and got his two bags of Surveyor Things along with a clipboard and notepad, said he'd start with the hull, we clustered at the bow and on we went.

To sum up, it was the best $270 bucks I ever spent. It went like a really great class. He explained everything he was doing as he went along, knocking, scratching, prying, poking, looking, measuring, etc. What he was looking for, what he found, how we might fix it if it was something that needed to be fixed, and so on, all while answering questions.

He started sounding pleased during the whole banging on the hull and topsides part of the survey and it went well from there. It turns out she's had some upgrades and that those upgrades were "done right"; it gave me good vibes to hear things like "This is nice!" or "That's a/an [insert upgrade here]." My personal guess is that the previous owner was replacing some hardware and what not before he fell ill.

I was also happy to find that with Sailingdog's list and other bullet points I'd found in doing a bit of Googling before we went boat shopping, we'd done a lot of things right we conducted our newbie "pre-buy survey". Kudos to SDs list!


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Round 3, cont.: Survey outcome and Boatyard Serendipity part 2.*

After all the poking and prodding, here are the positives and negatives as I can remember them (I don't have the actual survey yet).
*
Positives:*

- Hull is sound (he really liked the noise it made). 
- Hull/deck joint is good
- Compass, forward hatch, traveler, mainsheet blocks, genoa track have all been upgraded
-Wiring looks recent and was "done right"
- Electrical panel is new and also "done right"
- Head is practically new
- He really liked the teak dorade boxes 
- Mast/boom look in good shape. Boom has been converted from the old fashioned roller reefing thing. 
- he liked the propeller a lot; said it was and upgrade and very efficient
- mast step looks solid and someone has put a backer so that stainless and aluminum don't touch.
- standing rigging is recent
- thru hulls (eight of them) looked good to him

*
Negatives:*

- we weren't able to get the Centerboard to move, probably cause of marine growth in the slot. 
- at one time, water was over the cabin sole and A4 sat in water. It is kaput. Must be replaced or rebuilt 
- exhaust to muffler needs same
- gas tank has no O-ring at the filler cap, has water in it, and gunk. On the plus side, he thought it was great that it was marelon.
- lifelines need replacing
- need to replace the hose draining the cockpit to the thru hull
- should replace a head hose 'cause the one that is there can let the stink out
- chainplate knees need fixing
- the decks and cabintop are wet
- need to rebed the rudder heel

Of all these, the must fixes were: the lifelines, the chain plates, the engine/exhaust, the drain hose and the gas tank.

Nicely, none of these were surprises. We were all pretty sure the decks were going to be wet after 45 years, but his rapping test sounded pretty solid except for in one spot.

What were surprised were some of the positives listed above. And to boot, it turns out the engine had been converted to freshwater cooling and a waterlift muffler. Also, the cabin sole is teak on top of plywood. I love me some teak.

We sat in the cockpit and went over things. In a nutshell, he said he was expecting a lot worse and was pleasantly surprised and "a bit envious".  He thought she had a lot of potential and not that much work to get her sailworthy.

So that was it! I was happy, husband was happy, surveyor was happy, hopefully the insurance company will be happy. I was so happy I forgot to take the pictures I'm supposed to send in with the insurance app. Oops.

The serendipitous part came just before he left; there's an old wooden Palmer Scott launch sitting next to Tigress, one of the other old boats in the yard probably looking for a new home. Peter said he was a fan of wooden boats and this lead to me saying that a boat that I really want is a (preferably wooden) Friendship Sloop.

Well! It turns out his friend bought one that had been up for sale recently, and they are running it as a charter out of Boston Harbor. I even knew which one they'd acquired. Small world!

After all this good stuff, husband and I went back up to the boat to do some more work. We pulled off some more trim and shelves, then cleaned up and called it a (longer than expected by that time) day.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

Here's some photos.

First, the very non-working Atomic 4.










A cleaned out interior. You can see the high water mark. Also, pretty, pretty red compass. So shiny.

















The propeller the surveyor liked so much:










And evil chain plate knee that must be fixed. Now with less shelving to block it in.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Great news! Post more pics, i'm getting pumped for our homecoming and summer of work on ours!


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Round 4: Tiller, teak and the BucketMaster, pt. 1*

Proving that not all Old Boat work has to be done *at* the boat, I sat down with a brand new Mighty Mouse finishing sander, a pile of non-mouse shaped sandpaper of varying grits, and the tiller and teak bilge covers.

The tiller had been varnished, but some of that varnish had come off. There were gray spots here and there. The cabin sole of Tigress, it turns out, is teak laid over the boring plywood. The larger sections were somewhat oily and dulled, while a small cover from the V-berth had spent Who Knows How Long sitting IN the bilge, soaking in general yuk. It was "hold it with two fingers and make a face" slimy when we fished it out. I'd since given it a good washing with some generic dish soap I had and let everything dry out. It looked less slimy, but still quite dark.

I tackled the tiller first. It's not teak but some light colored wood (I don't know my woods, but poplar maybe?). After some hand sanding with 60 grit, I slapped on one of those circular velc-- ooops, "hook and loop" --sanding discs to the non circular mouse sander and went at it. (Much less expensive than buying the little mouse-shaped paper). After coating the dining room in a fine powdery dust, the tiller looked like this.

Before, mostly:










Afterish:










(no, I don't live in a Batman villain's hideout, why do you ask? 

Still a lot of gray spots.

The next day, I dragged the workbench out of the garage into the driveway and spent some hours sanding the teak so that it didn't look so damned "blah". Then, deciding to try something I'd seen posted on here, I slathered some Soft Scrub on the wood and let it all sit.

This is the once black and slimy little cover. It's still dark even after sanding. That oil had a long time to soak in.










Half sanded bilge cover, forgot to take a picture before I started.










Post sanding-being covered in Soft Scrub.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Round 4: Tiller, teak and the BucketMaster Pt.2*

While the Soft Scrubbed wood sat, I took on the less glamorous stuff like the quarter berth locker covers, some screens for the companionway, and a drawer that was all peeling paint.

Drawer looks better, though I think I'm gonna do something about that splintered area there.










While sanding, I found that the plywood wasn't your basic boring pine-colored plywood I associated with the word "plywood". Dunno what it is, but it's kinda purty.










The Locker Cover Gang, post-sanding. I wasn't trying to strip paint so much as get all the loose stuff off. We're gonna paint 'em white again anyway.










These look pretty nice nice just sanded with no finish!









With that done, it was time to check on the Soft Scrub kids.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Round 4: Tiller, teak and the BucketMax Pt.3*

I gave them a good sponging off and let them sit and dry. It was kinda cold; 40s with the wind blowing, but they dried fairly fast.

Here they are in different stages of still wet. You can see the small square cover is still pretty dark by comparison.










The little skinny bit of teak I only sanded and did not Soft Scrub.

And here's what the teak looked once it dried. The oily, black cover looked like wood again. A bit bleached out, but I am hoping the finish will resolve that.



















The tiller still had some gray spots, but the Soft Scrub did lighten them up somewhat.

Now for the best part. Clean up! Why? This!

5 Gal. Bucket







+ Max








= BUCKETMAX!!







Whee! Handiest little shop vac ever, so very portable and you can use one bucket for wet vac and the other for dry and not have gooey wet stuff in your dry stuff.

Downside is that Max's hose is, well, short, but I tell him it's how we use it that counts.

Also, I did some boat paperwork, namely getting insurance coverage. Just got the survey .pdf file yesterday - thought it was a good read! -- and sent that in to BoatUS. They said coverage would start tomorrow, even though the signed app is still in the mail. So now the only paperwork to deal with is documentation, but I'm not in a terrible hurry for that.

We're unlikely to make it to the boat this weekend, so I'll probably work more on the tiller to get the rest of those gray spots out.

Are any of the Usual Suspects of teak finishing/varnishing best for a cabin sole? I like shiny but I don't want to feel like I'm walking onto a bowling lane.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Daydreamer-

For the cabin sole, I would recommend Ultimate Sole. It was discontinued, but has since been reintroduced. It is the best treatment for a cabin sole and one of the few products that most sailors agree on.



> - we weren't able to get the Centerboard to move, probably cause of marine growth in the slot.


Growth in the slot is one issue, but you do need to check the centerboard pendants and the pivot pin as well


> - at one time, water was over the cabin sole and A4 sat in water. It is kaput. Must be replaced or rebuilt


Depending on how bad the damage from immersion is will determine whether it needs replacing or not. Have you been able to manually turn the engine over? 


> - exhaust to muffler needs same


Not too bad a project usually, but that depends a lot on access


> - gas tank has no O-ring at the filler cap, has water in it, and gunk. On the plus side, he thought it was great that it was marelon.


Is the tank plastic, fiberglass, aluminum or steel?? The o-ring isn't a big deal, water sitting in a metal tank usually is. Hopefully it is fiberglass. Be aware that some of the fiberglass tanks have an issue with ethanol blend gasoline as the gasoline attacks the fiberglass resin that was used. 


> - lifelines need replacing


Drop them off at rigging only and they can make up a new set for you in relatively little time for a reasonable price. I would recommend getting uncoated lifelines. 


> - need to replace the hose draining the cockpit to the thru hull


Use AWAB or ABA non-perforated stainless steel hose clamps on all your hoses. Double clamp lines below the waterline. 


> - should replace a head hose 'cause the one that is there can let the stink out


Trident 101/102 for the 1-1/2 lines and trident 148 for the intake lines. Don't forget to add vented loops between the head and holding tank and the seacock and the water intake on the head.


> - chainplate knees need fixing


A Fein Multimaster or similar tool is one of the better ways to get the old knee out. Making new ones out of fiberglass is probably your best bet.


> - the decks and cabintop are wet


Recoring some areas may be necessary. Properly sealing and re-bedding all the hardware cuts and holes is key to fixing this. 


> - need to rebed the rudder heel


Are you talking about the rudder shoe at the base of the rudder???


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Daydreamer:

You're doing anything but dreaming, you're working your arse off. You were wondering what some of the wood was, that isn't "basic boring pine". It might be mahogany. Back in the 60's, not everything was made with pressed sawdust laminated crap. All of my cabinetry and much of my trim is mahogany. I found that out by reading some of the original Coronado Yachts corporate propoganda.

The Tartans are very popular. I'm sure you can find some old sales brochures online that will give you all kinds of tidbits about your boat.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

BubbleheadMd said:


> Daydreamer:
> 
> You're doing anything but dreaming, you're working your arse off. You were wondering what some of the wood was, that isn't "basic boring pine". It might be mahogany. Back in the 60's, not everything was made with pressed sawdust laminated crap. All of my cabinetry and much of my trim is mahogany. I found that out by reading some of the original Coronado Yachts corporate propaganda.
> 
> The Tartans are very popular. I'm sure you can find some old sales brochures online that will give you all kinds of tidbits about your boat.


I've read the brochures, but I don't remember them describing anything specific about what interior wood they used for the basic structures. Everything is/was painted white, except for the sole. I am pretty sure the teak sole is someone's upgrade. I'm happy for it; what if they had put down some carpet? It would have been ultradisgusto by now.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

Hi Dog,



sailingdog said:


> Depending on how bad the damage from immersion is will determine whether it needs replacing or not. Have you been able to manually turn the engine over?


Nope, haven't got to that yet. I am certain we will just have to take it apart at the very least. We'll go from there.



> Is the tank plastic, fiberglass, aluminum or steel??


Monel. I think I'm going to drain it, then pull it when the engine is out and take it to a radiator shop to be cleaned out.



> A Fein Multimaster or similar tool is one of the better ways to get the old knee out. Making new ones out of fiberglass is probably your best bet.


We can't afford a Fein unless it appears on my doorstep in a basket with a note pleading for us to take good care of it. 

I'll probably just get a Harbor Tools cheapie for the job.



> Recoring some areas may be necessary. Properly sealing and re-bedding all the hardware cuts and holes is key to fixing this.


It's not a priority; despite being wet, the deck was solid, except for the lower cabin top and the surveyor felt it would be OK for now. Everything will indeed have to be done sometime; I'm going to hold off on painting the deck until we do it, suffering the pale blue color in the meantime.



> Are you talking about the rudder shoe at the base of the rudder???


I thought he called it a heel. It's weeping water and as the surveyor put it, if it's weeping water out, it'll take water in when submerged. The rudder isn't in danger of falling off, rebedding is just to fix the weeping.

The crucial fixes (per the survey) were the chain plate knees, the engine/fuel system, some hoses/hose clamps, fully inspecting the CB, and safety items we don't yet have. It really was a pretty good outcome, I thought.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Forgot to post this pic last night.*

Here is my supervisor standing among the paint chips.








​


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

daydreamer, I look forward to each of your posts, not just to see the progress but for some great writing. Keep it up. BTW, to save money on sandpaper, buy it at autobody supply houses, or an industrial supplier like grainger or mcmaster. You can buy hook and loop in sheets, in reams of 50, and you can cut to fit your mouse sander. Mucho savings.


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## Hudsonian (Apr 3, 2008)

Great work! Although I'm loathe to suggest how others spend their money, I'd recommend purchasing a hand finshing scraper to remove old finishes.
Stanley Hand Tools : 28-035 - 3" Refinishing Hand Scraper
A finishing scraper works much faster than sandpaper, saves sand paper expenditures, gives you a smoother surface than sandpaper, and produces less dust. To use a finishing scraper hold it like sandwich in both hands, press hard with your finger tips and thumbs to slightly bow the scraper, place the edge of the scraper on the object to be scraped, hold the scraper almost perpendicular to the surface, and pull it towards you. With a little practice you'll be amazed to see the old varnish to flying off. You'll need to keep the tool sharp.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

daydreamer92 said:


> Nope, haven't got to that yet. I am certain we will just have to take it apart at the very least. We'll go from there.


Excellent, keep us posted. 


> Monel. I think I'm going to drain it, then pull it when the engine is out and take it to a radiator shop to be cleaned out.


Sounds like a good plan, is it easy to remove? Some fuel tanks are a PITA since the boat was essentially assembled around them. 


> We can't afford a Fein unless it appears on my doorstep in a basket with a note pleading for us to take good care of it.
> 
> I'll probably just get a Harbor Tools cheapie for the job.


I'd recommend going with the Rockwell or Dremel, which is about $100, rather than the HF one, which is $39, as they're probably going to be more reliable and more consistent. Of course, if you really need to use a Fein, I do have one. 


> It's not a priority; despite being wet, the deck was solid, except for the lower cabin top and the surveyor felt it would be OK for now. Everything will indeed have to be done sometime; I'm going to hold off on painting the deck until we do it, I think, suffering the pale blue color.


At least make sure you pot all the fastener holes and hardware cutouts.... as well as re-bed the hardware. Butyl tape is your friend... and probably the sealant you'll want to use for most of the deck hardware. 


> I thought he called it a heel. It's weeping water and as the surveyor put it, if it's weeping water out, it'll take water in when submerged. The rudder isn't in danger of falling off, rebedding is just to fix the weeping.


Heel or shoe...in either case, make sure it is well secured and bedded.


> The crucial fixes (per the survey) were the chain plate knees, the engine/fuel system, some hoses/hose clamps, fully inspecting the CB, and safety items we don't yet have. It really was a pretty good outcome, I thought.


I'd recommend getting AWAB/ABA non-perforated stainless steel hose clamps. Grainger or McMaster Carr both sell them IIRC, and you should buy enough to deal with all the hoses and have at least three spares in each size you need.  Don't forget to double clamp the hoses that are below the waterline.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> Sounds like a good plan, is it easy to remove? Some fuel tanks are a PITA since the boat was essentially assembled around them.


It's under the cockpit behind the engine from what I can tell, strapped in. It certain would be impossible to remove it without pulling the engine, but it doesn't look difficult once the A4 is out of the way.



> I'd recommend going with the Rockwell or Dremel, which is about $100, rather than the HF one, which is $39, as they're probably going to be more reliable and more consistent. Of course, if you really need to use a Fein, I do have one.


Well, we don't HAVE to use a Fein, which was why I was gonna go with the Chinese Cheepie -- figured it would be good enough for what we need to do with it. However, if you should show up with it, I certainly won't turn it down.

"I don't know what happened. He showed up with a multi-tool, cut out the chain plates and then, just like that..." ::makes Keyzer Soze poof gesture:: "...he was gone."

Gonna be down there next weekend?


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I'll second the Dremel as a handy tool to have on a boat. Especially for a boat with a wooden cap/toe rail, coamings, handrails etc. etc. Most of the finished wood on your boat would have originally been teak or teak veneered plywood in the cabin. Have you had a chance yet to become acquainted with 'teak oil'? I just love the effect it has on freshly sanded teak and I bet you will too. You can apply a finish over teak oiled wood if you just wipe your work down with Acetone first.
We removed the hand or grab rails from our cabin top a while back. I spent a few hours with a heat gun getting all the old clear epoxy and varnish off. Once lightly sanded and coated in teak oil they look nearly new. 
I was on the hunt for some teak to replace a bunch of pieces of our cap/toe rail yesterday. The going rate for teak at ML Condon in White Plains, NY is $20/board foot (1"x12"x12") so I was prepared to spend some money. I found that they had a bin of 'rippings', really strips from larger boards that they were selling for $5/board foot. I only needed strips of about 2" wide so I ended up getting 7 board feet of teak for $35 - saved $105!
Fuel tank is monel if original and is suitable for gas or diesel if in good shape. I am not sure if it is secured at the fill plate in the cockpit but it is strapped in as you suggest.
Congrats on your survey, she sounds to be in good shape despite her age and was once well cared for. The pic that shows the chain plate knee wall does not look so bad but since it is enclosed in glass it is hard to tell what is going on inside there. Is there any weeping from the knee walls? Have you drilled a small hole in each knee wall to test for moisture? If you are lucky it is completely dry but this design has proven vulnerable to water intrusion.
My A4 doesn't look much better then yours and still runs. Don't give up on the A4 just yet. Get a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil and put a cup of it in each cylinder and let it sit. MMO has anti-rust additives in it and smells great.
Keep posting your entertaining updates.
"Odalisque"
1967 Tartan 27'


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

> I think, suffering the pale blue color.


Have the same problem, myself.

Keep up the good work. I 'm really enjoying the read and I'm learning too.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Probably will be....


daydreamer92 said:


> It's under the cockpit behind the engine from what I can tell, strapped in. It certain would be impossible to remove it without pulling the engine, but it doesn't look difficult once the A4 is out of the way.
> 
> Well, we don't HAVE to use a Fein, which was why I was gonna go with the Chinese Cheepie -- figured it would be good enough for what we need to do with it. However, if you should show up with it, I certainly won't turn it down.
> 
> ...


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

CalebD said:


> Have you had a chance yet to become acquainted with 'teak oil'? I just love the effect it has on freshly sanded teak and I bet you will too. You can apply a finish over teak oiled wood if you just wipe your work down with Acetone first.


Nope, not yet. I think I'm going to use Te-Ka and the cabin sole stuff SailingDog recommended.

Today I finish sanded the teak and went again after the gray spots on the tiller with some sanding that didn't do too much and some more Soft Scrub. We'll see how it looks after this coating. The teak looks all right, though I noticed little ring patterns from the sander on some of the wood. Tiny little ones, makes me think a grain of something protruded a bit and made tiny little circles. It's not so noticeable I'm going to worry about it though.



> We removed the hand or grab rails from our cabin top a while back. I spent a few hours with a heat gun getting all the old clear epoxy and varnish off. Once lightly sanded and coated in teak oil they look nearly new.


The grab rails I have not done, interior or otherwise. I haven't done any of the exterior teak at all. The cockpit coamings are something I'd like to replace sometime, as they have been worn somewhat thin. Which segues nicely onto this:



> I was on the hunt for some teak to replace a bunch of pieces of our cap/toe rail yesterday. The going rate for teak at ML Condon in White Plains, NY is $20/board foot (1"x12"x12") so I was prepared to spend some money. I found that they had a bin of 'rippings', really strips from larger boards that they were selling for $5/board foot. I only needed strips of about 2" wide so I ended up getting 7 board feet of teak for $35 - saved $105!


Wow. We could use that. Husband asked about toe rails (of all things, oddly. It's the least noticeable teak on the boat  ) so it's on the cosmetic To Do list. Nice teak toe rails make a boat extra pretty. I have this mental image of what I want the boat to look like painted and it does include nice shiny toe rails.



> The pic that shows the chain plate knee wall does not look so bad but since it is enclosed in glass it is hard to tell what is going on inside there. Is there any weeping from the knee walls?


If you peek again you'll see the hole we drilled into it. There was quite a bit of weeping, indeed, though it had wept out by the time we snapped the photo. (Does one snap on digital SLRs? I guess not.)

The head side of the boat had even more water come out. I think we're the first one to venture a look from the results of our explorations.



> My A4 doesn't look much better then yours and still runs. Don't give up on the A4 just yet.


Oh, I haven't given up. Hopefully we can salvage it and get it running again. I'm actually fairly optimistic, perhaps because I haven't met with failure yet. 

I have my MMO ready to go and some PB blaster for frozen up nuts and bolts. If nothing else, I'm gonna take it apart just as a learning exercise. How hard can it be! 

Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad people are enjoying this. I used to write a lot in past years, it's good to loosen up the fingers, even if this is more a stream of consciousness report than real writing!


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Plot, suspense, crises leading to climax... yeah, this is real writing.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Te-Ka TE-KA Teak Wood Cleaner
is a 2 part teak cleaner and should work well on your most stained or dark areas. The grain will rise up a bit after this acid bath requiring just some fine sanding. Once your wood is cleaned up try some Teak Oil on it. I swear by the Spaghetti Monster you will be amazed.
Unfortunately the discount teak rippings are not wide enough to replace the coaming boards but are perfect for the toe rail. At $20/board ft. that will be expen$ive but will also look great once done.

Keep us entertained.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Wanted: Mennen for Tillers*

So Soft Scrub attack number one on the tiller didn't quite get rid of the gray spots.










Yesterday, I stood out there in the cold (36F and windy!) and fine sanded the teak and tried to sand off the gray spots as well. After a period of time in which my fingers went numb, I decided that a) maybe I didn't care about those spots or b) maybe I'd just try wood bleach, that Ox-something-acid people have mentioned.

Choice A wasn't true and B would require buying something. Hm.

Fortunately for my checking account, our local hardware store didn't have any ox-something-acid and I decided that you know, I'd just try more Soft Scrub. I slathered another liberal paint of Soft Scrub and set the tiller aside to dry while I fussed around with the teak. When the Soft Scrub dried, I slathered on MORE and then let it sit overnight in the kitchen sink, keeping gentle watch over the dishes drying on the counter.

Come morning, I rinsed the tiller down. Nothing had changed: big honkin' gray spots. Mildly disgruntled, I set it aside and went out on some errands I'll talk about in another post.

When we came back home in the evening, I reinspected the now completely dry tiller and became undisgruntled (gruntled?)!










Hm. It looks good now, but once there's varnish on it? Well, we'll fuss more about that later, but that's still a lot less gray than before. We're getting somewhere.

Here's the whole thing.

From picture-taking distance it doesn't look too bad.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Hell, it looks great! 
If this was the only project you had, on an otherwise Bristol high-value yacht, and you had unlimited funds and unlimited time to get absolutely every detail absolutely correct, then I would suggest investing the time and money and effort to eradicating the last of the almost utterly unnoticeable discolouration.
However, instead i sauggest that you get on with the rest of the long, long list you have ahead of you, and make the rest of the boat the envy of all who see her. 
If you find that you have a few odd bucks and a few odd hours of time after the rest of the work si done, then get crzy about the finish. or learn to do fancywork and wow us with a great knotted grip on the tiller!


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Nix Mennen. Grab some rope.*



bljones said:


> Hell, it looks great!
> However, instead i sauggest that you get on with the rest of the long, long list you have ahead of you, and make the rest of the boat the envy of all who see her.


I should clarify; I'm not doing all this INSTEAD of working on the Important Boat Things. The boat is 120 miles away right now and we can't make it down this weekend. So I do Other Boat Related things that can be done in the gentle, loving embrace of my home. Such as fighting with gray spots. I do the same with my hair, though I must admit I do not use Soft Scrub on my head.



> or learn to do fancywork and wow us with a great knotted grip on the tiller!


Now THAT is a great idea. You have, in one fell swoop, made handle gray spots moot!








Fallout avatar guy says: *YOU ROCK!*


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

damn, I get a gentle rebuttal and a kudo, all in one post. yay me!!
whistle, click-click.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*About that picture...*

Why is that fox peeing on the bookcase?



(c'mon, you know that's what it looks like. With a cheeky look back over his shoulder to boot)


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

You caught me. I was rendering all of the insipid Stephanie Meyer books in our house unreadable, in an effort to focus attention on Larsons's Lisbeth Salander trilogy.
(I mean, if you really need to read vamp fiction, read something good, like Kelley Armstrong or Charlaine Harris.)


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Nice job on the tiller... Love the fallout avatar... one of my favorite game series I might add, except for Fallout Tactics... UGH.



daydreamer92 said:


> I should clarify; I'm not doing all this INSTEAD of working on the Important Boat Things. The boat is 120 miles away right now and we can't make it down this weekend. So I do Other Boat Related things that can be done in the gentle, loving embrace of my home. Such as fighting with gray spots. I do the same with my hair, though I must admit I do not use Soft Scrub on my head.
> 
> Now THAT is a great idea. You have, in one fell swoop, made handle gray spots moot!
> 
> ...


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Mwf Seeks Hot Deall--$1 (ne)*

My weekend hasn't been all about gray spots, nay. Today was all about craigslist.

I've only recently discovered craigslist (I know, I know, welcome to like 2002, dude) and now that I've joined the rest of you in the present day, I surf it often.

Why? Well...

a) it's like window shopping. Only the windows is rather small and made of text, often without any image of what you're supposed to be buying and that text is sometimes so fraught with typos and terrible grammar that "lol whut u mad?" looks like Jane Austen wrote it

b) there's some neat stuff for sale!

c) some of that stuff might be useful

d) some of the useful stuff might be cheap.

It all comes back to the money, baby, all back to the green. Yo.

Anyway, during one of my surf sessions, I spotted a dinghy for sale in a nearby community for the interesting price of less than I paid for my boat. Believe me, not a lot of dinghies cost that little. The ad stated that it needed repair but I'm not adverse to repair, I'm all over repair, just show me a repair and I'm ready for it.

I put it on the "hmmm" shelf and went on browsing. Another ad, this time for bottom paint. ::read read:: In brown? Ugh.

The same guy also posts that he's getting rid of some Teak Oil, Teak brightener and Teak Other stuff for a reasonable low price. Since it so happens I'm in the market for Teak oil and what not, I'm all over that like a gnat in freshly rolled Interlux; off goes the email.

The next day dawns, and I poke around the computer. I notice that the dinghy is now one hundred bucks less than I saw it yesterday. Cool. So I call the guy. (note: the day dawning for me means like after 11am, so I'm not waking anyone up) The fellow is cheerful enough and lets me know that not only does he have the one dinghy, he has a lot.

May I come down and take a look at them?

Yes, please do!

I roust even-later-sleeping husband out of bed and tell him it's too nice of a day to stay inside, let's go drive around.

Dinghy Man lives down a realllllllly long dirt road in a part of the state that's a bit "expensive nice country estate"-ish. His estate is not particularly posh but lived in and homey. He does live by a large pond, though, which means that as soon as his property comes available, someone will buy it, tear down any existing structures and promptly cram a house way too big for the lot in its place.

Anyway, he's an older fellow with a salty sailor thing going, a widower, and quite talkative, in a good way. I like him immediately. His lot has a modest brown house, a three car size garage/workshop building, and a very large Rotty-Newfoundland mix that lumbers up slowly to check us out. The dog is so big that *my* dog, sitting in the car, doesn't even woof at it; maybe he thought it was a particularly ambulatory rock. I dunno.

The garage/workshop is just brimming with a lifetime of stuff, including many, many cast iron wood stoves of all kinds. Indeed, if one wants a cast iron wood stove and can't find one, I can tell you were they went. 

_"Yeah, I'm a stove guy..."_

He's also a boat guy. There's a Contessa 26 on a freshly built new spiffy trailer (his "new" boat he's downsized to) and a Vineyard Vixen over yonder and some big covered power thingie he called a trawler. _"I was gonna give up sail when my wife got sick..." _

Awww.

And there are dinghies. Big dinghies, small dinghies, bass/duck boat dinghy, blue plastic West Marine type dinghie, wood dinghies, fiberglass dinghies. (_"Got too many dinghies!"_)

There's a Joel White 12 foot "one of a kind" that was his wife's boat (Awwww again), a Fatty Knees, a wooden canoe-shaped one painted in pastel green and pink (_"Guy who built it was from Italy so..."_ Hee.), some flat as a pancake Laser-like thing, and so on.

I was peppered with friendly questions that I don't have answers to yet, like moorings.

_"Rye? I got a mooring in Rye. You won't live long enough to get a mooring in Rye."_ (referring to the very long waiting list for a rather small harbor)

He tells me that the dinghy I came to look at needs fixing and that we don't want to get into that (to which my brain went "Oh? I don't want to fix things? Hah hah! I accept your challenge! We shall duel at dawn!"  ) and it would not make a great tender, being too heavy. He also asks me how much I want to spend; he's got dinghies from $200 to much more. I told him I don't want to spend more on a dinghy than I spent on my boat. Like the Guess Your Weight Guy at a fair, he then tells me what we spent on the boat (_"Hmmm. Six thousand."_)

I tell him what we paid for it ($500). I get the usual grilling about what's wrong with it, and so on. I give that information, we chat about that for a bit and then it's back to dinghies, now in the price range I'm looking for.

(Note: lest you think my husband roams around with a muzzle, I should explain that he is the more silent, internal type of fellow. If he has a question, he'll pipe in, but I'm always the one leading the verbal charge. So it's not like he's being made to sit in the car or something; he's following us around during all this, muzzle-free.)

We disregard the plastic thing and the metal duck boat. I'd have to wear camo and have a trolling motor to feel right in that. That leaves three sailing dinghies and the $150 dollar dinghy that I saw in the ad.

I want to mull the choices over and tell him so. In the meantime, I point over to something that caught my eye the minute we pulled in, something tucked away against the side of the house behind the Vineyard Vixen, something I've been waiting to ask him about.

What is it? Why it's...

BOAT STANDS! LOTS AND LOTS OF BOAT STANDS! Squee!

_"Oh, you need boat stands?"_

Even Husband said "yes!" for that question. 

He'd sell us five for a total price of $150.

Yay! I do so like this "stumbling onto a good thing" we seem to have going lately.

On the way out, I did stop and check over the dinghy he said I didn't want, esp. since he dropped the price $50 while we were there.

It's listed as a 1960 Beverly Dinghy. Here's what one blurb had to say about it:

This roomy, well-balanced dinghy was designed to meet the requirements of the Beverly Yacht Club. They required a light, smart sailboat with simple rig, ample flotation to ensure safety in a boat to be used not only as a one-design racer, but also as yacht tender.​
It is pretty heavy, and it was in rough shape. It has no rudder, no rig, no nuthin'. Of course I liked it. Of course I want it. Next payday.... *plot plot plan plan*

After this, we ended up driving up NH's whopping 12 miles of coastline, then connected with Teak Oil guy and picked that up.

All in all, a productive boat-but-not-at-the-boat day.


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

you think craigslist is fun wait till you figure out crazedlist, it a search engine for craigslist, you can search many craigslist areas at once.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Daydreamer—

I would recommend getting SEVEN boatstands, not five. YOu really should have one for every 10' of boat length... that's not an industry standard, but something I recommend. The seventh one makes moving stands around when bottom painting and such a lot easier.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Great back story and Jane Austin reference. You paint wonderfully with your words and likely have a background in literature.
That was a great deal on the boat stands (jack stands). If you buy them new they are over $100 a piece: Boat Stands, Jack Stands, and Blocks
So now you only need to acquire 1 or 2 more as I think that 3 sets of boat stands is the minimum you should use and SD advocates a 7th.
The next time you visit dinghy/stove guy on his estate you should ask him if he has any teak lumber or scraps that he is willing to part with. If he has any it was likely purchased well before the startlingly high price of teak today. You will be wanting some teak at some point; even 2" wide strips can be used on the toe rail.
Most of us who hang around boats and boat yards can easily recognize your dinghy guy as the affable old salt widower. Perhaps you made a new friend today? I guess that 'teak oil guy' was not nearly as remarkable?
You gotta' love craigslist!


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## sailguy26 (Dec 24, 2005)

Love the thread, I was up til after midnite reading it. Not much "expert" contributions.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Thanks for the kudos though!*



CalebD said:


> Great back story and Jane Austin reference. You paint wonderfully with your words and likely have a background in literature.


I do not have a background in literature. That would require me to read it.

And a lot of it is boring.

(GASP!!! says all the well-read people out there)

Ok, I've read *some* literature, enough to know that if/when I went to college I didn't want to major in it. At the risk of trotting out ye olde "these kids today" all I can say about appearing literary is that I started reading at a young age. Since reading is a key to knowledge, I eventually learned about people like Jane Austen.

Lest you think I'm a totally uneducated dork, I do now finally have a college degree, obtained only a couple years ago after I lost my job. And nope, nothing at all to do with Literature or English or writing or anything like that. 



> The next time you visit dinghy/stove guy on his estate you should ask him if he has any teak lumber or scraps that he is willing to part with.


I did not see teak, though I saw little squares of wood that looked like pine in big stacks. I'll try to remember to ask him though, a good idea. His basement under the house was also full of just... a lot of things. We went into it looking for mast _("It's in here somewhere...")_.



> Most of us who hang around boats and boat yards can easily recognize your dinghy guy as the affable old salt widower. ... I guess that 'teak oil guy' was not nearly as remarkable?


I like "salt widower" as a description, fits perfectly.

As for Teak Oil guy, he was a rather handsome man with a long Greek last name. I was a little bemused when he gave driving instructions for the way back home to my husband. I was the one driving the car. No way for him to know that if he didn't see us pull up, but still. Hee.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Absolutely everybody...*

Has this video been posted here yet? I couldn't find it with a search.

Watching this not only makes me wanna go sailing, I wanna become a billionaire and go buy some fancy pants trimaran and just zoom around for the hell of it.

Zoooommmmm......!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I think I've linked that one at least once. Brossard is one of my favorite boats... But, I'm a trimaran person... so my opinion is a bit biased in their favor.



daydreamer92 said:


> Has this video been posted here yet? I couldn't find it with a search.
> 
> Watching this not only makes me wanna go sailing, I wanna become a billionaire and go buy some fancy pants trimaran and just zoom around for the hell of it.
> 
> Zoooommmmm......!


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Jury Duty and Boat Related content*

I spent Monday morning in my last dutiful day to the Superior Court of Hillsborough County (for at least another three years). Unlike the other two times that I attended this month, I did not get selected for a jury. Twice that guy pulled my name out of the barrel and I was seated. Twice! I never get my name pulled out of a barrel for a brand new car, or even a pretty little goody basket, but plant me in a jury selection pool and suddenly my name keeps coming up like bad seafood. The second time though, one of the attorneys yoinked me in that thing they can do a few times once people are picked. A fellowed yoinkee was a little offended to have been yoinked ("Why didn't they like me!"); I could only tell her that they tell you not to take it personally.

This time, my half of the room didn't even leave the jury corral; we sat around for about three hours. It is kinda bemusing to watch grown adults get all impatient like kids told to sit still in church.

During this time, though, learned a lot about a crabby aunt a schoolteacher had made a promise to her mom to take care of. Like boaters, jury pool people seem to bond quickly and will tell you just about anything. I'm glad I don't have to take care of a crabby aunt.

Finally, we were sprung. Whee! I had to celebrate by whipping out the craigslist teak oil and gussying up my bits o' teak. Actually I ate a donut first and THEN I did the teak.

Yesterday, I used Teak Cleaner and Teak Brightener to, well, clean and brighten said pieces of teak.

This is what they looked right after that.










I let them dry and now I had this:










Looks more or less like they did without cleaning, but oh well.

Then I used Amazon's Golden Teak Oil and oiled them. I actually did the first three coats yesterday. Three more coats today. I've read you should oil 'em until they don't want anymore oil, else the oil won't last that long. It's easy enough to do.

So here they are, all oiled.










I don't have a lot of experience with teak, so I assume that's a decent color. Beats the bilge oil gray they were before. I think they'd lighten up a bit in the sun, but these are bilge covers so they won't be seeing a lot of that.

I am pretty tempted to just go the oil only route and not worry about a sealer.

As for the tiller, it's still naked. I think it might be ash rather than poplar. I don't know. I also don't know what I want to do with it as in finishing. Minwax with spar varnish? Can I make it look like teak? A light tiller among darker wood strikes me as odd.

Ah well, time to ponder that before the weekend.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Daydreamer—

If you really want to finish the tiller and protect it, it might be worth putting a layer of clear epoxy over it first then varnishing it. The epoxy will penetrate the wood and help protect it from water intrusion and greatly reduce the risk of it delaminating. The varnish will protect the epoxy from UV damage.


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## tip (Feb 15, 2010)

daydreamer92 said:


> Yesterday, I used Teak Cleaner and Teak Brightener to, well, clean and brighten said pieces of teak.
> 
> This is what they looked right after that.
> 
> ...


What brand cleaner and brightener did you use on the teak?


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

West Marine. Both bottles were pretty old, so I dunno how effective they really were, but they came with the teak oil I bought from someone who didn't need it anymore.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Round 5: Baby Steps*

Sometimes it feels like we aren't moving "fast enough" given our limited time to actually go to the boat. I have to remind myself it's only April, and we've only been there four times and only having maybe 4-5 hours work while we are there. Baby steps, right?

Right.

No pictures from today's journey; there really isn't anything new and interesting to show.

I tried HoneyDew donuts for the first time; I have to say I prefer their plain cake donut over Dunkin's. It's hard to screw up a cake donut, granted, but the edge goes to HoneyDew.

The heavy rains from earlier this week only partly filled the bilge. We stopped at West Marine and bought 10' of bilge hose to attach to our handpump. This made flushing out the water much easier than doing "fill bucket and pour" method. The water isn't exactly potable, but it sure looks much better than the last time we flushed water out and it's been 2 weeks since we've been there.

Was a perfectly lovely day, sunny and probably 70s. I keep forgetting its Friday to the rest of the world when we are there, but still a couple folks showed up. A father and son or older brother and younger brother took a look at one of the brokered yachts a couple boats away, a something or other that looks pretty shiny compared to the collection of neglected boats around it. It looks about oh, 27-30' long. It's white with a blue bottom, which is about 65% of all the boats there, and has a bit of a pinched stern. I'm sure it's of newer vintage, say... 80s?

Newer to some anyway.

Some other men showed up to poke around and measure a trailer holding a small powerboat on it, and another guy showed up and worked about as long as we did to unshrinkwrap and dismantle the frame on his big honkin' powerboat. Another sailboat had the cover off and the PVC frame still up, so little by little, boats are starting to blossom like the leaf buds beginning to come out. I saw a forsythia already in bloom. Even the flowers have cabin fever.

We took out the remainder of the trim and shelves that would get in the way of painting or fixing, along with the head door. The boat isn't exactly an empty hull, but it's stripped down, at least to the companionway steps. The engine is still in there and so is the gas tank; those are the last two things we really need to take out.

I was brave and stomped around on the foredeck to untie a tarp so we could have some light inside the work (the tarp was over some ports and a hatch). A "hey!" from the husband inside signified a discovery that if I sat on the lower cabin roof, I squeeze out some of the water from the wet core to dribble into the boat through the opening for the mast. And onto his back, he claimed. Heh. My butt as a rainmaker, of sorts.

That cabin top will be the first section replaced when we go after wet core.

I fiddled around with exterior teak while husband removed shelves. My thoughts were that it seemed easier to work on the coaming off the boat, but it looks like a pain in the ass to unscrew everything from below, so that stays to be worked on there. We removed a couple teak cockpit covers and brought them home for some attention. A couple of the screws were angry about being asked to come out and snapped in half.

I also played around a bit with scraping and sanding inside. It looks like the first coat of interior paint was a fairly cheerful (but light) yellow, and then someone had painted white over it. Standing there looking at how much needs to be taken off still and how dirty the inside of the boat overall is a little daunting, now that one can see it all. The palm sander did ok with taking off some paint and smoothing things down, but I think the best tactic is to attack the chips with a good scraper first.

And so many nooks and crannies! I did say it looked a bit daunting, right? Right. It's only April, it's only April....

That's about it. I took at look at the hole the boatyard folks had made to drain the bilge. Poking a stick into the hole (monkey use tools!), I banged up against something solid, and peering around inside we didn't see any hole, so I'm wondering if there's just a hole in the fiberglass and something wooden blocking the actual way in, like a stringer or well, something. The hole is almost where the V-berth begins, and is really too far forward to drain where the water collects. I am inclined to put in a garboard drain/plug, it will save us some time and not have water just sitting there waiting for us to come deal with it.

Next visit, I want to take out and replace the head hoses and get rid of the "poop bag" (collapsible holding tank). Fixing the companionway hatch slider rail thing and removing the rudder heel is also on the list, as well as finally cutting out those chain plate knees now that we can get to them. Plus lots of scraping. Note to self: get goggles you can wear your glasses under.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Kon-Teak-y II*

Yesterday, I took advantage of being home alone (husband was off doing 2nd shift OT) to tackle some of the boat bits we'd brought home Friday. A lot of plywood shelves just got a light sanding to smooth down rough edges and what not. The shelves had been painted white somewhat recently it seemed, given that they weren't really peeling much. The edges of them were somewhat uneven, making me think they were replacement shelves. That, or Tartan shelving was indifferently made. They were all still in decent shape, just needed some cleaning.

The teak consisted of the outside grab rails, two cockpit hatch covers/seats and a section of the cabin sole from the V-berth area. That part of the floor lifted right out; if the right of the sole does that, it hasn't given any indication as such.

I decided to skip the Soft Scrub teak treatment and see how just some West Marine Teak Cleaner and Brightener would do by comparison as I had some on hand. The cabin sole wasn't in bad shape really, not nearly as oily as the bilge covers had been, but the exterior teak was dry and very weathered. If there ever had been varnish on any of it, it was long since gone. The grab rails reminded me of really old deer antlers you might see hanging long forgotten in your grandparent's old barn.

Here's a before picture:










Here's a locker cover during the Cleaning phase. I've soaked it, let it sit and have given it a bit of an "agitation", as the instructions call a light scrubbing. You can see a sheen of oil.










Now rinsed and with Brightener on it:










Compared to an uncleaned buddy:










Cleaned, brightened and in various degrees of drying:










I'll put some oil on tomorrow. I think varnish would be better for outside stuff, but I just... don't want to get into the 2900 layers of varnish thing right now. I'd like to see how long the oil will last.


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## pontiakos (Jun 1, 2007)

This is a great thread...your righting style is excellent..can't wait for the next installment


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

pontiakos said:


> This is a great thread...your righting style is excellent..can't wait for the next installment


Agreed. Especially as I am doing some of the same stuff to my T27 right now. 
We had our 'antlers' or grab rails off the boat and in dire need of refinishing as well. I have been down the "Varnish Road" with my exterior teak and I am done with that as I don't have the energy to always keep it up, so to speak. I have moved on to Cetol Natural Teak for our exterior teak but all cabin teak on our boat IS varnished and will stay that way 'cause it looks great inside and requires only minimal maintenance. For exterior wood Cetol is much less maintenance at about 1 coat per season while a varnish finish is a JOB (part time yes, but all season long). After about 5 seasons of pretending with varnish I am done (screw Rebecca Whitman even if her work is immaculate and beautiful in her books).
We are now in our 7th year with our T27 and Cetol IS good. For the 'antlers' this time around I am trying Bristol Finish which is a urathane slime that is supposed to last uncountable years in the elements; it is also difficult to use and smells like nail polish. I am still learning as I go. Photos of finished 'antlers' are promised when done. 
One of the things I have learned from working on all the teak on my boat is that 'teak oil' makes cleaned up teak look really good, just like your treated pieces. Don't forget to wipe/rub them down with acetone right before you put the finish of your choice on them.
Sorry to hear about the soft spot in your deck (the decks on T27s are cored with Balsa or marine plywood). We have a small soft spot that will need attention very soon as well. 
We are in the same boat, so to speak.
Great posts.
Keep 'em coming.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*thanks again for kudos, glad you like my rambling accounts*



CalebD said:


> I have been down the "Varnish Road" with my exterior teak and I am done with that as I don't have the energy to always keep it up, so to speak. I have moved on to Cetol Natural Teak for our exterior teak but all cabin teak on our boat IS varnished and will stay that way 'cause it looks great inside and requires only minimal maintenance.


I am a bit tempted to try to the Cetol on the exterior stuff. I still have time to think about it. I already put oil on the sole.

Only the sole is teak; the rest of the interior is varnished mahogany. Most of it still looks nice though some pieces here and there have either wear or some mild water damage.

Did you pull up the rest of your cabin sole, Caleb? Does it come right out? Or did you take care of it just there on the boat? Do you have the teak-over-plywood thing going on?



> Photos of finished 'antlers' are promised when done. One of the things I have learned from working on all the teak on my boat is that 'teak oil' makes cleaned up teak look really good, just like your treated pieces. Don't forget to wipe/rub them down with acetone right before you put the finish of your choice on them.


Yay on photos! And yeah, I oiled the teak I had photos of in the other post and it looks good. A bit dark, but it's just the floor anyway.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Our T27 came with a piece of carpet cut to fit the cabin sole. Underneath the carpet is a floor covering of fairly thin cork that I believe to be original as it is well worn. One of the previous caretakers of your boat (PO) must have upgraded your cabin sole.
Somewhere way down on my 'honey-do' list for the boat is to re-do the cabin sole. I found a place that sells 4' x 8' sheets of teak and holly veneered plywood (ML Condon, White Plains, NY). The cork sheeting does provide pretty good traction and feels nice under foot though. Hmm.


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## messer999 (Aug 3, 2009)

Your story-telling is superb and your humor is great. If your "cleaning the teak phase" is this good, I can only imagine the wonderful stories you will write once you start sailing!

Got a sister?


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Gentlemen, we have wood.*



messer999 said:


> Your story-telling is superb and your humor is great. If your "cleaning the teak phase" is this good, I can only imagine the wonderful stories you will write once you start sailing!
> 
> Got a sister?


Heh. Nope, just a slightly younger brother. Thanks for the compliments. I really am surprised some people find this a good read. ::sheepish::

I oiled the teak today. Being a great waffler -- not the tasty breakfast food kind, the indecisive kind -- I unwaffled and decided to just oil the teak like I'd done to the pieces before. I have oil on hand, and while varnish or Cetol or the like isn't outrageously expensive, that's still money I will surely be needing to spend somewhere else.

The usual before shots. They've been sanded and dusted/vacuumed off.
























And after. The antlers have turned back to wood!










The piece underneath is the trapezoidal V-berth cabin sole.
The other one is a cockpit locker cover.










I was surprised to see how golden the lid was to compared to the sole. Both lids came out the same way, too. I wondered if they (sole and lid) were the same kind of wood after all.

Then I turned the cockpit locker lids over and behold, reddish wood, just like all the other pieces I've done.

Here's the two covers together, one turned bottom side out to show the difference in colors.










Interesting, huh?

The only difference between the top and bottom of the lids are that I did not use teak cleaner or brightener on the bottom. I *did* use teak cleaner and brightener on the sole and the grab rails though and they both have that red-dark look, not the golden yellow. The other difference was that the top of the lid was very weathered and silver-gray before cleaning/sanding, and the bottom was not. However, both grab rails were quite gray too and they didn't come out golden colored.

No big deal, maybe that's just teak for you -- I'm no wood expert. I just thought it was interesting.

I also sorted out the last of the lines we'd brought home. Two jib sheets and something that untangled into a mysterious collection of line and pulleys along with a single cleat. It was obvious that one pulley was meant to be hanged (Hung? someone told me only men are hung, everything else was hanged, but it looks weird. Anyway, you know what I mean!) onto something and the other had a tab to be stuck onto something. The mystery was settled as soon as I held them up the right way:

*poink* <-- that's my thought bubble turning from ?? to !!

Oooooh, it's a boom vang. I'm glad I didn't really ask someone other than the husband (and I answered myself before he did, so HAH!)

Duh, right?

Hey well, I've never seen one off a boom before. 

Other than that, I got the insurance thingie from BoatUS. Some people call them a policy, but thingie works too. I have to send something back saying when I'd finish up the surveyor's recommendations. I put "end of June". I dunno about resolving the engine issues before then, to be honest, but I think we can do everything else by then. It's only April... it's only April....


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Bunny Day in Witch Town*

On Easter Sunday, it was too nice to stay inside. We took a drive into Salem, MA to look around since it seems a likely place to call boat home. It's about 60 minutes away as the crow files or Google Maps claims, but closer to 90 minutes as the car drives.

It's a nice little city heavy on the whole Salem Witch trial thing; a friendly woman who had a Herreshoff 12 1/2' that she was working on said that Halloween is worse than summer for traffic. Which is good 'cause there seems to be only one real way into town, and it was a bit of a meander off the highway.

Every other shop was a witch shop. Some were crunchy granola modern Wiccan witch stuff, and some were pointy hat and broom witch stuff, with many being an interesting mix of the two.

Most of the sites to see were closed due to the holiday, but few people made for easy parking. In Salem, parking seems to mean "in a parking garage". Fortunately, the harbor is a very walkable distance away and, except on Halloween, weekend parking in the garage is free.

I found my next boat there. You don't think this is too big of a step up from the Tartan, do you?










An impulsive "zomg, it's spring in New England FINALLY!" photo:










I don't know what kind of trees these are but those flowers smell really good.

While a large Easter Brunch crowd enjoyed the nearby restaurant, we gawked over a railing at how our betters live at the Pickering Wharf Marina.

"I like that boat and that one and ooooh, that one..."

Didn't see any Tartan 27s. Awww.

Here's a photo I took of nothing in particular. It seemed like a good idea at the time. See those tiiiiiiiiny white dots on the water? One of those could be ours soon! Whoo!










The husband was particularly impressed by the Large White Boat in the photo below.










Anyone know what this is? I'm afraid that unless it's really distinctive, or has the manufacturer's name written on it somewhere, my Name That Boat knowledge is pretty poor.

All in all, a nice way to spend a few hours and size up our (probable?) port of call.

Oh wait. One last photo! I saw this address tag on a house we walked past. Made me laugh. I think it's really that house's address too.

Hee.


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## CaptGriffiths (Apr 7, 2010)

Good for you Tigress. None of my wives would have done what you are doing!


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Kim,
Spring is evident here in NY as well.
Teak can be interesting stuff and depending on what part of the tree trunk planks are cut from the color can and does vary considerably.
I believe that those Lazarette covers (seat locker covers) were originally made of a teak veneered ply (as mine seem to be). Our aft hatch cover is fashioned from pieces of solid teak and looks a bit different then the lazarette plywood covers when oiled. It looks to me as though your PO may have made a new lazarette cover out of solid wood instead of veneered plywood which would help to explain the different hues.
I am a sucker for the way teak oil makes teak look but I have to warn you that the oiled look will not hold up much longer then a few weeks in the elements without a harder finish on it. You might find yourself oiling your exterior wood on a monthly basis - which may not sound all that bad until you try it. On the plus side, if you initially go for the oiled look you can always lock the color in under some Cetol Natural Teak at a later date.


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## mk11blue (Apr 8, 2010)

*how do i make a post*

i would like to post a thread. how would i do that? can u help?


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*How much teak could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck teak?*

To the previous poster: Go to the appropriate subforum and there ought to be a "Start New Thread" button. Press it. Write what you need to write, give it a meaningful title, and submit. Ta da! You've posted 

To Caleb:

You know, looking at the locker covers, I did wonder if the gold on top/red on bottom was due to two different plys. But it looks like a solid piece of wood to me. I could be wrong of course, but I didn't see a sandwiched material sort of thing going on. I'll check again to be sure.

The surveyor was the one who said the cabin sole is teak, the interior trim is mahogany and the exterior is teak. I was also told teak is golden while mahogany is red (I knew the latter). Some of the varnished interior trim is sort of a pretty golden color, some is more red, sometimes in the same line of trim, like along the sink cabinet.

So at this point I am not sure what I have other than "Wood of Some Kind That Looks Nice Oiled".

Since the first coat, the wood has darkened up. I'm using something that is probably linseed oil and I think that does darken the wood. Next time I will look for something with tung oil.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I was under the impression that most of the cabinetry in our cabin was teak but would not be at all surprised to find some mahogany. They are both attractive and nautical looking.
You probably all ready know this but while the T27 while designed by the venerable S&S (Sparkman & Stevens) they were actually built by Douglass McLeod and a few hulls were made by the W.D. Schock. To complicate matters further there were some significant changes to the way the boats were made from year to year. The icing on the cake is how previous owners may have customized their own boats. The result: no two Tartan 27s are exactly alike, which is probably true for most 'production' boats. 
I am pretty sure you are 100% correct about Linseed oil darkening the wood. Tung oil would be a good choice instead as it darkens less.
Tung oil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I've never seen a Tung tree which is no surprise since it grows in SE Asia.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Oh God, not another post about wood!*

Yeah, it is. But it's short.

I learned something today, so am sharing for any other wood noobs here.

I noticed that those locker covers (isn't the lazarette the cover on the stern/transom? Anyhoo...) that were a nice golden color on the top had darkened. A lot. I expected some darkening, but some parts are now almost black.

Curious. So I did a little bit of researching. I found that the black areas are likely caused by moisture hiding within the wood. When I oiled it, the spots darkened right up.

I don't think this is a big deal 'cause the oil won't last a long time anyway and I can start anew. For now I will just set them in the sun and let nature do as it will. But now I know that any moisture in the wood will thwart beautifying plans. So next time, I'll have to make extra extra sure it's dry. Amazon's (the teak people) have a product they say will draw any residual moisture out so you don't get those spots. I'm sure there must be other products that do that. As would lying in the sun and air for longer than I let them, I guess.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

As promised a few photos of our 'antlers' or grab rails undergoing treatment with Bristol Finish.
Having previously used varnish and Cetol this was my first attempt to use a 2 part urathane finish on my exterior wood. I will say that both varnish and Cetol are easier to work with.
Once I had cleaned off the old finish satisfactorily I opted to try the 'wet on wet' method to build up a bunch of coats quickly as the label suggests 6 or more coats in order to get the best longevity out of this product. The 'wet on wet' method allows you to put on a coat, let it dry a few hours and re-coat it without sanding between coats. 
I mixed up about 4 ounces of BF at the 8:1 ratio suggested and began. It smells like nail polish. I used a clean cottage cheese container for the BF and sealed the lid between coats. By the time I had 4 coats on it the finish began to develop 'zits'; whether this was from using partially cured product or the result of lots of pollen in the air I don't know. I let the pieces cure for a day and sanded it with #220 grit paper. This stuff seemed more the consistency of partially dried snot and clumped into little pills or boogers after sanding. Wiping them off with a rag with denatured alcohol seemed to get them smooth enough for re-coating after sanding (see pics).
It is easy to get runs and irregularities with this finish and it probably did not help that these pieces are not in the least bit flat. 
After the last coat I applied in these pics I re-installed the grab rails back on the cabin top as we launched the boat yesterday. I will have to put another coat or two of this stuff on with the grab rails on the boat which I was hoping to avoid.
My boat now has a mix of exterior wood finishes that will include Bristol Finish and Cetol and will be a living experiment to see how these finishes stack up against each other. Time will tell.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Caleb, I wonder if your zit problem might not be the finish material, but air trapped in the brush that transferred to the finish. Bristol finish does NOT like to sand until it is fully cured. Were you periodically cleaning your brush? i keep a dip cup of turpentine/ laquer thinner handy, and after every fourth finish stroke i clean my brush.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

blj,
I suspect that you are correct. I used the same brush for my first 4 coats, keeping it wrapped in a plastic bag between bouts. I also used my original batch of BF for each subsequent coating which probably did not help as the stuff slowly cured in the pot and perhaps got a bit lumpy. I should have mixed up separate (smaller) batches of the snotty goo and cleaned my brush thoroughly between coats.
Good advice.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

*Looks like you had better luck than I did...*

...with the hand rails. I broke one in three pieces getting it off 

The boat was 35 years old at the time and the rails had been sanded pretty thin over the years. I had to make new ones.

Over the twenty years I have owned her (The first 17 in Hawaii's tropical sun) I have learned to love Cetol Marine.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

Hm. I was intrigued by the Bristol stuff, until words like "snot" and "little boogers" appeared in the review. I think I'll stick to teak oil! 

Thanks for the photos, Caleb; did the Bristol impart any color to the teak, or just shine up what was already there? 

re: the Cetol-d wood on your boat. Was that a recent application? Got any pics of that? I'm curious to see what Cetol treated wood looks like.

I only fiddled around with the tiller this weekend so I have no rambling stories to tell. Stained it with some MinWax Ipswich Pine stain (Home Depot claims this is no longer available, so hey! I have a bunch of 'rare' Ipswich Pine stain. Whoo!), then applied some spar varnish via a spray can. Yeah, a spray can. I wanted to see how it would come out.

With no more available boat projects (not entirely true, but I have to save something for next week) at home, I attacked my dining room and kitchen walls, stripping wallpaper, washing, spackling, sanding, pulling off baseboards, and painting both some test colors and a "for real" color. I dunno why I waited 9 years to do this, this is easier than boat wood stuff.


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## tomwatt (Dec 11, 2009)

Everything is easier than boat stuff to do...
I suspect my weatherboards (which you admire so much) are probably Cetol.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Daydreamer92,
The Bristol Finish only imparts the slightest coloration to the handrails - as if you wet the surface with water or spit. The real color comes from the teak oil which soaks in. Before finishing any oiled wood I always wipe it down with Acetone to remove any surface oils.

I don't think these are really great photos of my 'Lazaret' covers and aft hatch but they were covered in 3 coats of Cetol Natural Teak. I took these photos to show the modification we made for our old traveler set up not intending to show how good (or bad) our brightwork looked. While Bristol Finish is clear, Cetol Natural Teak does impart an amber hue to the wood. I guess that is one reason why folks say to use 3 coats of the Natural Teak followed by 2 coats of the Clear Gloss as too many coats of Natural Teak can obscure the wood grain.

Our tiller is varnished as well (Schooner) and has held up fairly well. The more coats of varnish the better (6 +).

I will highly recommend that you apply whatever finish you have chosen while you have your wood already off your boat and in a 'shop' environment. While it is easy enough to apply your finishes with the wood still attached to the boat (in situ) I am always amazed at how much dust lingers on my boat even on a mooring. Beyond the dust we get a fair compliment of 'ships spiders' who take up residence once on the mooring. It is a bit of a mystery how they get there but they do and I am pretty sure they do not know the difference between Cetol and water.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Still here!*

I like the color of those teak covers, Caleb. I waffled all over with treating the teak, but now I'm leaning back towards Cetol Natural Teak stuff.

Anyway, lest any of you think "Oh, she got bored/scared f the work and stopped working on the boat", tis not true. There was a lull of a few weeks where weather (rain) or work (husband overtime) got in the way of any Old Boat Work 

Instead I painted my kitchen and most of my dining room. Like the Tartan, the house is in a state of "this will look better when we're done, RIGHT?"

I also have gone from almost fours years of unemployed and indecisive ("What do I want to do? What CAN I do?") to going into business for myself and working as a freelance writer. A lot of the last month has been me trying to make that happen. Seems to be working, actually, I've got five jobs in the last two weeks. We're not talking big money zomg-gonna-go-buy-a-new-boat or anything, or even zomg-gonna-buy-a-used-canoe, but it beats zero.

We've had a couple weekends down at the yard, including this just past Saturday. Progress is slowly being made. We're not anywhere near to be able to move or launch her (sigh if only money would fall out of the sky) but we're moving forward. Slowly. A whole slew of boats are no longer in the yard and no doubt bobbing happily in the harbor and my poor Tartan sits. Someone bought or got rid of the Hunter a couple boats to the left of me (it was a super cheapie) and now there's an enclosed launch of some kind next to the "gosh I wish someone would buy and restore this" wooden launch instead.

Anyway I have some pictures to post about the ongoing chainplate knee saga (and a lesson about why husbands should always listen to their wives: WE ARE RIGHT) and other Tigress working adventures such as cleaning the interior and hull stuff. Of course as we did this, something else had to break. Hee. But nothing major.

Rambling stories to come soon, though not so many pictures as I'd have liked. Forgot the bring camera Saturday. Pity 'cause we finally got one chainplate knee out. Woot.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Hey daydreamer—

Did you move the boat or is it still in Mattapoisett. Right now, I'm stuck down in St. Aug waiting for a weather window to hop further north.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Thanks for the update, daydreamer. i was wondering what happened to you, and was about to pull the trigger on pinging you when your post popped up.
Congrats on the freelance scrawling gigs. Build the book, and more business will come your way. Been there done that, still negotiating for payment upon acceptance, not publication.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> Hey daydreamer-
> 
> Did you move the boat or is it still in Mattapoisett. Right now, I'm stuck down in St. Aug waiting for a weather window to hop further north.


No, it's still down there. I have until end of June to get it out; that's the logistical thing (blocker is pretty much the greenback availability thing, I think I have the rest in hand  I am figuring out.

Whee.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Scrawling? Is that an every day sort of word for a writer? Or is that better used on holidays?

Congrats on the writing gigs Daydreamer. I wish you luck. 
Perhaps to motivate you I will tell you about going nowhere on my Tartan 27' this beautiful, sunny afternoon.
I hitched a ride to our mooring on the Hudson from another member in a small open motor boat. The purpose of my visit was to put another coat of Cetol on our teak toe/cap rails, eyebrows, lazarette covers, aft hatch and companionway. All of the materials I needed were on the boat so away I went with my cup of tea in hand.
It is so different being on a boat when it is on land then when it is on the water. A boat takes on it's own personality when there is both wind and water current present. A boat can become an animate being when wind and water are involved. I watched the afternoon winds and waves build from the south as I attached myself to the boat and slapped a coat of Cetol on all of the wooden parts I had in mind. As the boat moved so I had to move in order to be able to place my brush accurately. I always have a rag handy and can of thinner for holidays and drops that seem to happen.
My cup of black tea ran out as I finished my Cetol work so I tried to boil some water on our Homestrand Alcohol stove which had not been working in spite of my replacing the pressure pump assembly. I got it to work and it boiled me some water which was lovely. I think that the boat wanted me to have the cup of tea I wanted so much after all the hard work I had done to make her look good and finally the stove worked well enough to boil water.
The sunlight dances about the main cabin from the port lights as the boat moves to the waves and the current. There is only the sounds of water passing by the hull from small waves and what noise comes in the companionway hatch and the radio. 
Getting a ride back was a matter of shutting up the boat and using my body in the low light as a semaphore for 'hitch hiking' back to shore: thumbs up. I drifted quickly back into my land ways.


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## hudgensinternational (May 22, 2010)

not to hijack this, but penny for any thoughts on purchasing a salvaged boat or where to purchase a salvaged or otherwise cheep boat requiring lots of sweat equity. 30+ ft, fixed keel brand is less important. There are limited resources here in Missouri any direction would be helpful. thanks


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## MikeClements (Jun 1, 2010)

*Great Thread*

Daydreamer it is a testament to your writing style that I just spent the last hour reading every entry of this thread. Great stuff!! I too bought a neglected mid '60's sailboat for 500$. Reading thread definitely inspires me to get out there and work on her. Thanks and keep it up.


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## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

*Wood*

Daydreamer I just enjoyed reading all posts under this heading and wish you luck in getting the boat on course.

I'm an old Dutchman whom lived in the tropics where at a young age I was taught sailing by my Dad. at 6 years of age I was sailing in regattas at the local YC in one-design dinghies. With age stepping up to faster and more competitive ones (Cadet, Vaurien, 420, 470, Flying Dutchman, Tornado etc.) and later on to sailing and crewing on boats up to 50' i.e I'm a sailor but always had a soft spot for older wooden boats.

After I moved to the States we found a nice old 1960 27' Chris-Craft open Sea Skiff which my wife and I restored and put over 2200 "man" hours into, we then bought a 1963 31' Chris Craft cabin cruiser and did the same in the meantime restoring and or newly building wooden dinghies to pull with the bigger boats and some other woodies in between.

My motor woodie thing went luff and with gasoline being so expensive I talked the admiral into letting me have a "plastic" sailboat although my boat is 10 years younger than yours I must do a lot of the same, but currently we're to busy sailing her. Mechanically and safety wise she's up to par but she's not pretty.

I picked up a lot of experience in the 50 years of working with wood, my Dad, and building wooden boats especially in the last 20 years here in the States and also as an active member of the Chris-Craft Antique Boat Club.

Here are a couple of statements regarding your "boat" wood;
The reason your tiller looks different (I'm 99% sure) is because it is ASH a much blonder wood than teak.
Teak and Mahogany are both cedar type of woods great for marine applications. Depending on where the wood came from each teak or mahogany can have completely different hues. Hence some teak looking blonder, it will only look the same if from the same tree.
Generally teak is blonder than mahogany, teak has more yellow and mahogany more red overtone. Both are soft open grain type woods that need sealing to keep them from oxidizing (getting gray or black if moisture).
Both look great when varnished or oiled, both methods are just personal preferences by whomever is doing it. 
Personally I recommend sealing the outside teak with CPES, Cetol, or Varnish or a combination of those. The exception being decking, for that you could use any of the recommendations made by brands offered for that purpose (starbrite, te-ke, amazon, etc).
Also I do not recommend a two part (harder & resin) epoxy type of coating as these generally cure to hard and wood expands and contracts to much in the harsh, wet, weather and sun conditions of marine life causing it to come loose from the wood and eventually break off. It will still have a shine to it at that point though.
Old fashioned varnish with modern UV protection still makes wood look the best but it requires diligent up-keep (light sanding and a coat or two a year)
Just my opinion you can take with a drop of water (not a grain of salt as I sail the Great Lakes)
Keep up the great work of saving these old boats from a certain death.


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## wegman (Jul 11, 2001)

nice job.


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## RickBarr (Aug 12, 2009)

Hi, glad we found this thread. Am about to purchase an Ericson 39' with hopes to restore her. Yes I do enjoy frustration and sore arms. Right now I'm frustrated with the seller. We placed an offer that he accepted subject to Survey but refuses to let me haul the boat out to inspect the keel and check for blisters with the Surveyor. Now I know the red flag is up. I'm getting the boat for a decent (not good) price. But we wanted some other seasoned sailors advice. This boats been sitting on fresh water for 20 years and by the sound of it he probably last re coated her bottom in the 80's. If I cant view the boat hauled out what could I expect to be damaged.


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## RickBarr (Aug 12, 2009)

*1971 Ericson 39' Old boat restoration*

Hi, glad we found this thread. Am about to purchase an Ericson 39' with hopes to restore her. Yes I do enjoy frustration and sore arms. Right now I'm frustrated with the seller. We placed an offer that he accepted subject to Survey but refuses to let me haul the boat out to inspect the keel and check for blisters with the Surveyor. Now I know the red flag is up. I'm getting the boat for a decent (not good) price. But we wanted some other seasoned sailors advice. This boats been sitting on fresh water for 20 years and by the sound of it he probably last re coated her bottom in the 80's. If I cant view the boat hauled out what could I expect to be damaged.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I would not buy a boat that you could not haul to inspect the bottom, rudder and keel. Fresh water is more likely to produce blisters than salt water and Ericson had some resin issues back in the 1970's. Ericson experimented with a laminating technique where they did not use a finishing resin for the last lamination, hoping instead that the interior paint would cause a final curing of the resin. It did not work and some of these boat experienced some very strange crazing and delamination issues. 

Jeff


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

RickBarr said:


> Hi, glad we found this thread. Am about to purchase an Ericson 39' with hopes to restore her. Yes I do enjoy frustration and sore arms. Right now I'm frustrated with the seller. We placed an offer that he accepted subject to Survey but refuses to let me haul the boat out to inspect the keel and check for blisters with the Surveyor. Now I know the red flag is up. I'm getting the boat for a decent (not good) price. But we wanted some other seasoned sailors advice. This boats been sitting on fresh water for 20 years and by the sound of it he probably last re coated her bottom in the 80's. If I cant view the boat hauled out what could I expect to be damaged.


No survey? NO SALE! You cannot properly survey a boat unless you can inspect the bottom out of the water. If it were me, I would probably offer half the asking price (Or less) if he won't agree to a full survey or just walk away.


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## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

*Get A Survey*

I agree with Jeff and Vega.
To me an out of the water survey is much more important than an in the water.
If she's on the hard with her mast up you can basically check everything except the thru-hull points and engine operation.
These latter can be easily spelled out when making an offer, as contingents on no leaks and engine in operating condition.

Are you saying he doesn't want the boat out of the water or that he doesn't want to pay for hauling it out?

Skipper E-J
s/v "SAILMATES" 1972 IRWIN 32 Classic.


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## RickBarr (Aug 12, 2009)

No, I have offered to pay for the Haul, The Survey, the lot. I already know what needs to be done topsides. Chain-plates,Bulkheads, Core damage,deck has had some brutal repairs done to it that I'm going to redo probably a new rig though the owner swears she's sound. Was very interested in the fact that Ericson was experimenting with the lam finishes in the 70's thats news to me. I knew some were prone to blistering I was prepared to for that. Ahhh!!! Your all right though. Why the hell this guy isn't letting me haul her is a bit odd. According to the Broker I've placed the best offer yet on the boat so far. The owner is a bit sore about an offer of $5000 (he's asking 39,000) received a few months ago and is being difficult with the broker ever sine. I did not want to offend the guy so we offered him a decent price.The only thing left working on the boat is the Westerbeke in fairness that's the least of my worries. Could it be that the boat is not insured or something.. I did tell the broker firmly that if the keel was rusted or there was bad delam I out and out wouldn't buy it. Maybe thats why he doesn't want her out of the water. 
He's accepted my offer though, it's just not adding up.


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## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

*Fishy*

If you pay and he says NO. Walk away from this one. This sounds "Fishy" dead fish and smells rotten. There are many other good boats out there. The items you already mentioned you need to work on or replace do not make this boat a good buy.
I can't believe he started @ $39K, but if you are willing to put $10K or more into her $5K might not be a bad price.
Look for another boat unless you really want this Ericsson.
Good luck.

Skipper E-J
s/v "SAILMATES" 1972 IRWIN 32 Classic


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

RickBarr said:


> ... I already know what needs to be done topsides. Chain-plates,Bulkheads, Core damage,deck has had some brutal repairs done to it that I'm going to redo probably a new rig though the owner swears she's sound. ..I did not want to offend the guy so we offered him a decent price.T...


jesssh. You should absolutely offend him, sounds like he's trashed a nice boat.
How did you figure out a decent price for a battered boat like this? Have you estimated the costs of properly repairing these problems to the right number of zeros? Will a professional yard do the work, or are you going to work up the skills of a capable shipwright? major deck repairs are particularly difficult, especiallly as they are usually right under the eyes, all the time.

My take is the $5000 might have been a decent price. Boats should not be sold in this condition...they are just given away to the next dreamer.


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

EJO said:


> If you pay and he says NO. Walk away from this one. This sounds "Fishy" dead fish and smells rotten. There are many other good boats out there. The items you already mentioned you need to work on or replace do not make this boat a good buy.
> I can't believe he started @ $39K, but if you are willing to put $10K or more into her $5K might not be a bad price.
> Look for another boat unless you really want this Ericsson.
> Good luck.
> ...


Probably hiding the Bondo applied below the waterline- Take a pass.


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## sailorthom (Jul 13, 2010)

Save the planet,recycle an old boat. Good for you,Thom


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## MARC2012 (Mar 17, 2008)

If a westerbeke is the best thing on the boat you are screwed.marc


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## RickBarr (Aug 12, 2009)

Ok were back, I offended him !! Were getting the boat hauled.. Told the broker the boat didn't belong on the Market it belonged in a Salvage Yard if it couldn't be hauled. I later learned the seller is an old Salty who has some health problems hence the boats non maintenance. Just holding onto the dream, I can sympathize . Seems he just wasn't up for moving it. Funny EJO mentions 5 grand that's what was offered before I made my offer and the owner flat out refused it. I offered 16 grand with a view to drop her to 10 with the Survey's punch list. Hope it works out... The bulkheads I don't mind doing in fact anything I can get done without her being on the hard I don't mind doing actually we were going to ask for some advice on good scarfing cuts that offer resistance to loadsl. Portland is bloody expensive all the do it your self yards must have beer flowing through their pressure washers and little elves that run round fixing things while your out sourcing materials, for the prices their charging I have to get that boat down river before we can work on the hull. It'll be worth it, the E 39 is often forgotten about when in the shadows of the great old IOR's but she's a contender if any of you ever sailed one you'll know what I'm on about. Not to mention flush decks are just more fun.. Thanks for all your support and advice.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

RickBarr said:


> Ok were back, I offended him !! Were getting the boat hauled.. Told the broker the boat didn't belong on the Market it belonged in a Salvage Yard if it couldn't be hauled. I later learned the seller is an old Salty who has some health problems hence the boats non maintenance. Just holding onto the dream, I can sympathize . Seems he just wasn't up for moving it. Funny EJO mentions 5 grand that's what was offered before I made my offer and the owner flat out refused it. I offered 16 grand with a view to drop her to 10 with the Survey's punch list. Hope it works out... The bulkheads I don't mind doing in fact anything I can get done without her being on the hard I don't mind doing actually we were going to ask for some advice on good scarfing cuts that offer resistance to loadsl. Portland is bloody expensive all the do it your self yards must have beer flowing through their pressure washers and little elves that run round fixing things while your out sourcing materials, for the prices their charging I have to get that boat down river before we can work on the hull. It'll be worth it, the E 39 is often forgotten about when in the shadows of the great old IOR's but she's a contender if any of you ever sailed one you'll know what I'm on about. Not to mention flush decks are just more fun.. Thanks for all your support and advice.


Myt bet is that if you have a good surveyor, the value will drop to a lot less than $10,000...unless the offer recognizes the existing known faults, in which case you can't negotiate them when the surveyor tells what the repairs will really cost...plus more.

My bet...if you get a survey...you will never buy this boat.


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## RickBarr (Aug 12, 2009)

*Re Ericson*

You may be right, I slept on it and it might just be a waste of time having her surveyed. I guess we were being a bit over - optimistic blinded as such... I have lost out two Ericson 39's as the offers on them allways exceeded my limits. The decent ones that were on the market for `25,000 or so were allways snapped up before I could even place a bid. I just found out theres no tank for the head. I'm going to pass on this boat. Back to the search I suppose... why do people let there boats go to Sh** I'll never know. The owner lives less than two miles away from the slip. He payed month after month to keep her in the water and watched her rot. Is it so hard to get a boat on the hard and canvass her ? Ahh am getting emotional :hothead


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## RickBarr (Aug 12, 2009)

By the way, "Sailing fool" we noticed your certified by the ASA to teach. I'm coming up on 4 years logged. We were thinking of going for the cert ourselves to start teaching here in Barbados. There has been a renewed intrest in getting the Sea Scouts Established again I want to be apart of that. A certified teacher on the Island would be a great step forward. The BSA certs aren't really recognised internationally. I hear the written test is quite the challenge. Any advice ?


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

Yay, I've inspired others to save old boats. 

I thought I'd stick my nose in again. Summer has been no end of "do this do that" with remarkably little time to write about anything fun. Instead I'm trying to make money at it. Whee. 

Quickie update on Tigress (as quick as my verbose self can be):

Her chainplate knees are all out. They were as wet, stinky and gross as you might imagine a piece of plywood would be after 45 years bathing in a fiberglass-encased wet area (the wet no doubt coming from the chainplate/deck juncture). The chainplate themselves were merely a bit weathered, whereas the chainplate bolts were so rusted as to look like a tree where a beaver has chewed through. 

I've scraped most of the cabin and some of the Vberth. Husband fixed the rudder foot thingie. My experiment with just oiling shows me the teak still looks better than it did, but not particularly interesting. 

The last couple of weeks, we've been getting the boat ready to move, finally. She's going to go from Mattapoisett to Newburyport to a DIY boatyard. She's due to move Friday. Kinda exciting.

In the meantime, wanting to sail, dammit, I surfed Craigslist for a small (trailerable) boat we could pull behind the Escape for weekend splashes. I found a few great deals, but other people snapped them up before I got there. Took at a look at a nicely kept Day Sailer I in Mattapoisett but the price was more than I really wanted to pay, though it was sorely tempting. 

Found a 1962 O'Day Ospray (yes, "Ospray", not "Osprey") in Maine for $400 with mast, sails, trailer and a little outboard. That whole saga is worth a post of its own; suffice to say that now I have two old boats that need work  

Anyway, this coming week is moving day for Tigress, so I'm expecting we'll have a lot more time to work on her and no worries about doing so since it's a DIY yard. It's not exactly close, but it's closer than Mattapoisett. A pity, since I find it really like it down there.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Our smaller hole in the water*

We named her "Trouble" before we had managed to get out of Maine with her, so you just know what kind of day we'd had. ::grin::



















We found the mast had been bent almost to the point of being in two pieces. However, a previous owner had applied this expert repair:










Hee.

More later!


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## MarioG (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm finding it tough to work on 2 boats at the same time. Working on the C-26 means only as it needs it, because we are sailing it. With very littile wind this last time we did get alot of little things done.

With the boat tools and supplies on the C-26, the heat and the family of wasp that moved into the C-22, even with it in the drive its not getting the attention it needs. If I sell it I'm sure I will replace it with a much smaller sailing dingy.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

In our case, the smaller boat needs much less work (at least that's our current assessment) to go anywhere. It's also much more simplified than the "big boat". For example: we went out and got a new mast. So the mast thing is taken care of. Most of the gear from the old mast was usable, except for three tangs, a turnbuckle, and a cleat.

Technically, the cleat was ok, but one of the ends was rough and I thought why not replace it. I found out that West Marine doesn't carry tangs (hmph!) so I'll order that. The rigging is otherwise usable -- no frays on the wires, etc. They had been using one of those yellow nylon ropes for sheets but we have a lot of lines from the Tartan we can put into service. The boom is in fine shape, as was the rudder. The tiller needs a quick sanding and some varnish. The sails are pretty worn out, but we don't have to replace them to go sailing.

So other than three tangs, and some paint, the Ospray should be ready to go in a week or so, while the Tartan is going to take much longer.

Here's another pic of the Ospray. If folks aren't familiar with 'em, they were made between 1959 and 1969. Looks like a smaller Day Sailer really. This is not the same boat as the similar-sized Osprey of the UK.

She wasn't too dirty inside, but definitely needs paint. One of the coamings has a section missing, but the mahogany cockpit floor boards you can see leaning against the garage in the previous post belongs to the Ospray. With some paint, she's gonna look rather nice.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

So we've got some paint on order, mast tangs supposed to arrive tomorrow. This means that we should be able to measure, drill and fit the old fittings to the new mast.

We'll probably have to cut down the new mast a bit too; they cut it long. Not a big deal; we can take it from the top and plunks the masthead back in. It's just a few inches.

The Tartan gets moved this Friday. I'm a little anxious -- not because I think the boat will fall off the back of the truck or something -- but just to see her in a new home. This yard is arranged so there is never anything in front of you and even has a little private storage shed. No more lugging things back and forth! Whee!


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Because 2 boats isn't enough...*

Saw this sight while driving by to the yard to pay deposit on storage for the Tartan 27.










Came back for more nosing around.










(cell phone pics don't come out that good, but it was an "oh! I'll stop and look" moment.)

Peeking in over the transom. Skinny! Can't see too much, too short.










All wood, beat up, neglected.

Of course I want it. (I know I know, wooden boats, nothing but trouble, expensive, may not be restorable. Do not try cloud my wants with logic!)

Did find out she is a 1951 Geiger design, brought up from VA when she was found sinking at a dock (awww). Nice current owner, super friendly! He has a 50 foot wooden one he's working on, two was too much.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Mast here, fittings going on*

Husband worked on new mast for the Ospray yesterday. Today he got a root canal. I bet he liked the mast stuff better.

We bought a turnbuckle to repair the "repair" a Previous-Previous Owner had done for the headstay, which was tie a bunch of knots to secure a short length of rope between the broken end of the turnbuckle and the ... ah poop, blanked on the name, the u-shaped thingie that you put a clevis pin in the end of to secure a stay to it. Husband isn't sure how to put the new one on, but I bet Don Casey will tell him how via one of our books. ::clings to This Old Boat and the other big blue one::

We also needed three tangs for the mast since the iron splint repair had put bolts through two of them and the third looked rusty. I looked at West Marine and the cheapest was about 12 bucks each, but would require us to drill holes through 'em. ("Need a drill press!" was the dubious opinion of West Marine desk guy, perhaps thinking, as a girl, I could not muster such a tool. "Mmhmm," I said, knowing husband has a drill press at work.)

But you have to order these things rather than have them at the store, and hell, I can do that and probably find cheaper stuff.

So I did. D and R Marine, which stocks a lot of Pearson and O'Day bits and pieces, had tangs for a Javelin which looked exactly on target, for like $5.50 each. They came in yesterday. All the rest of the fittings looked good enough to reuse.

Husband also sawed off the extra four or five inches of extruuuuuusion (I like that word) aka "mast without anything on it" and riveted on the mast head with a rivet tool I'd bought.

He kept grilling me about the tool. "You sure you got a rivet tool?" "Yes." "Was it like this one?" "Yes." "You sure?" "Yes, husband, I am sure."

Hmph. I think he just wanted to spend more money at Harbor Freight. BTW, if you think the lure of the catalog is tempting, don't go into the store. We went into it with an empty basket "Just here for a socket set!!" and came out $130 later. I got a $9.99 palm sander out of the deal. I also heard an older guy totally fail at the "quietly passing gas in a store" deal in the aisle next to me and had to keep my adult "I hear nothing!" face on while the 5 year-old in me was giggling up a storm. Hee. Anyway.

Where was I? Mast. Anyway, we got halfway up to turning our 24' extruuuuuuuusion into a proper mast when the drill decided it had enough. I think it heard my husband talking about another drill he wanted, a corded one that didn't randomly drop the bits out.

Drill: "Oh, suddenly I'm not good enough? Well F--- you!" ::quits::

Or maybe it just needed to be recharged.

So. That's where we stand with the Ospray. Tomorrow, paint is supposed arrive and then I can practice on a small boat what we'll need to do on the BIG boat.

Pictures when we get done with the mast. It really just looks like a big aluminum pole right now.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

You and the husband are going to love the 1962 Ospray I predict. There is that adage that says that a boat is used in inverse proportions to it's length. The Ospray has a trailer and can be stored in your yard while the T27 requires a monthly stipend to keep it going. Of course, spending the night on the Ospray will not be as luxurious as the T27 when she is ready for you. 
Smaller boats are great. Unfortunately I had to give away a perfectly good 19' Lightning I had from 1969 this year. That has given me more time to devote to our T27 and we hauled her out of the Hudson today and scraped the barnacles off her hull paint and power washed her; no sailing involved.
Last Thursday I saw a Sturgeon broach the water's surface in the Hudson. 
It is good to have a boat (or two) to get out on the water with.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Daydreamer:

Q: how much do I enjoy your updates?
A: a lot. Keep 'em coming. I am anxious to see what comes of your Tartan, a boat I really like. And I know what you mean about Harbor Freight. We have a place like that: Tool Warehouse. I went in for a palm sander, and came out with not only that, but also one of those 90 degree angle things for a drill, and some other goodies too. Very tempting.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

CalebD said:


> You and the husband are going to love the 1962 Ospray I predict. There is that adage that says that a boat is used in inverse proportions to it's length. The Ospray has a trailer and can be stored in your yard while the T27 requires a monthly stipend to keep it going.


Yard? What yard? You see that photo of the boat in the driveway? That's all the "yard" I have, sir! We live in a townhouse. Technically it's against association rules to have it there, but that was only for two days. 

At present, it's living inside of a storage locker down the street. I rationalize the enclosed locker because in theory (and there is room) we can move other crap, er, stuff in there that we don't want to keep in the house. Also, it's one less boat out in the rain and snow.

So, let's see. (uses calculator in side bar)

The little boat costs $158 a month.

The big boat costs $157.50.

HAH. Tartan wins! Plus someone shrink wraps it in the winter, puts the mast on a mast rack, launches it and rigs it.

In all seriousness, it's probably a good thing I don't have a yard, or I'd have a lot more boats by now. I really do want the probable lost cause of a wooden thing (dragged the husband to see it and he was like "lolz, lost cause" but he's not a woodworker so I'm pretending he can't possibly be right because that's too pretty of a wooden boat to lose to the elements...). If I had a yard, it'd probably be there.

So probably a good thing. Next year though? House with yard.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

*At least a garage maybe?*



daydreamer92 said:


> Yard? What yard? You see that photo of the boat in the driveway? That's all the "yard" I have, sir! We live in a townhouse. Technically it's against association rules to have it there, but that was only for two days.
> ...SNIP...
> Next year though? House with yard.


I live in an apartment in NYC and my yard is the sidewalk so I understand where you are coming from. 
I was relying on the generosity of suburban relatives to keep the 19' Lightning on her trailer but that generosity has dried up (must be my cologne) which is why I gave that boat away. 
Trailer sailors are great IF you have the space to store them they are cheaper then keel sail boats.
The upside of the Tartan 27' is that you can sleep on it in the rain, cook some kind of meals and make coffee or tea. The upside of many trailer sailors is that they can be beached or anchored not far off. The T27 is no dinghy sailboat but it is a great sailing platform. 
Have you been soaking the cylinders of the Atomic 4 engine in Marvel Mystery Oil yet? I still have high hopes that the A4 beast can be revived. 
My best however you proceed.
CalebD
T27 #328 'Odalisque'


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Tartan isn't going anywhere (Picture intensive!)*

Well, I mean in the sense of "Hey this Ospray is so much fun, bye big boat!"

If anything, the Ospray will go somewhere else once the big boat is in the water. I bought it with the thought that a little cheap boat we can play around with in the next two months of nice sailing weather would be more fun that not sailing at all. But don't worry, Tigress has a home.

Today was Moving Day for her, in fact, and thought I called the yard and told the answering machine to please give me a call when our boat arrived, they didn't. After a while, I called the hauler and he was home, so I told him since he was there, I assumed the boat had arrived ok! (all good naturedly mind you) He said it did, everything went perfectly smoothly. I kinda wish I'd seen her cruising the highway myself.

If one is prone to attributing human thoughts to inanimate objects (and I am) I bet she enjoyed the change of scenery after.. nine? ten? dunno ... years in the same spot. The view is a bit more scenic, at least behind the boat -- there's a marshy spot full of cattails and rushes and what not. Everywhere else is Newburyport so it's either industrial or houses or a curious mix of both until you get further east and north of where we were. Then it's Typical NE harbor town that's kinda touristy and so very boat-y. Boats on the river everywhere. This is where the Merrimack River dumps out to the Atlantic. Interestingly enough, here I am at home and the Merrimack River is flowing (albeit at low levels due to lack of rain) about oh, a football field away to my left or so. Maybe a bit more.

I was told that the tidal currents can be pretty tricky there and that, plus mooring/slips cost is why my longer range plan is not to call that our "home" when not on the hard. We'll see though I guess. That Wooden Wreck I'm in love with is owned by the Salisbury Harbormaster who seemes like a great guy -- Salisbury is across the river from Newburyport. Small world.

Anyyyyy hoooo, here is a photo of Tigress in her new "home". In the old yard she didn't look that small compared to the boats around her. In this yard, she looks stubby!




Husband stomps about on boat. The shrinkwrapped neighbor there has the very same "unpaint" job as we do. Hee.




There are several sail boats laid up here, many who look to be, ah, older and more or less left alone. Relatively few powerboats except for "trailer sailer" row on the opposite side of the yard. Those little sheds you see are rentable for storage of stuff. You get 1/2 for the season.

I like the layout of this yard. It's a DIY yard and not nearly as far inland as it looks: the docks are half a mile away. Here's looking to the back of the yard and at the GIANT WIND TURBINE that makes a great landmark. GIANT WIND TURBINE was only spinning very slowlyy today and by the time we left, had quit entirely. Guess it wasn't windy.




And to the front of the yard.




That shiny big blue boat has been at the yard long enough long that the laid back mechanic and the nice lady who works part time there were joking that the owner (who is constantly working on it, I guess) was the yard mascot.

Best thing about the yard is that it is half the drive of the old yard, which saves us about 2 hours of driving.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Chainplate removal, starboard*

The absence in posting about what we were doing on the T27 did not mean we didn't do anything on twhile she was still down in the original yard.

As you may recall from early pictures, she was dirty dirty dirty inside. She had flooded at some point up past the berths while made engine oil go everywhere. She was full of "stuff" and stinky oily cusions with covers, soggy box full of line, smelly sails in sailbags, etc.

We cleaned her out, as in threw away/removed all the stuff.

Then we brought our own stuff in!










It looks so tidy here, but believe me, we added to it later. You may notice I had painted the locker lids. More on that later.

The main obvious repair to make in any T27 is to replace the chainplate knees unless they have been done already. For whatever reason, Tartan opted to seal the knees and the chainplate in fiberglass and place them in just about the least accessible locations they could.

Husband removed all the shelves from the hanging locker and the head and hoses from the head (we were prepared for the stank, but I think the hoses, toilet and poop bag (holding tank) are new, just dirty in the "I've been sitting for years" way.)

We bought a Rockwell multitool and while I played house (aka, cleaned half the cabin with soap and water), husband attacked the hanging locker chainplate knee.

Husband assaulting the hanging locker/starboard knee. The camoflauge allows him to sneak up on the fiberglass undetected.










That's some of the more intact pieces of the knee lying in the sink there. The rest looked like compost.

The target:










The hole is from us drilling into it expecting water. We got a stream of it. So, with the precision (hah!) of an open-heart surgeon, husband cut the knee down the middle, then around the right side, and in half. He used a crowbar to pry it open to see the tasty goodness inside.

















There's supposed to be a thick triangle of plywood in there that that two plates fasten onto. Maybe 45 years ago there had been.










That's with most of the compost--er wood scraped out.

The fiberglass layer was THICK, which is probably why the chainplates never tore out


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Chainplate knee removal, port*

When it came time to actually get the chainplates out as in disconnected and free, there was a lot of grumbling going on about how one couldn't get 'em off what's left of the wood 'cause there aren't any nuts or bolts left AND no clearance to get to those things if there were. I offered the suggestion of "Why you don't go on the deck and just whack 'em down with a mallet until they come through?"

It's not as if we were gonna rehab the things so smacking them with a hard object wasn't gonna hurt.

That won't work, I was told, but he went off to try it.

WHACK! WHACK!

::Chainplates are pushed through deck::

Oh, silly Husbands, when will you learn...

The port knee, located in the head, was a lot easier to cut out in the sense of having bought a much better blade to slice through that fiberglass with. We didn't take a lot of pics of that side 'cause it the whole dissembly looked like the other side, only with a toilet bowl in front of it.

This knee was in even worse shape, somehow. More water came rushing out when Husband made the center cut and the black mess that used to be wood stank. Like Pee-yew! stink.

Here's some stinky what-used-to-be-wood.










Here's with everything cut out, both sides.

















And here's our collection of what happens when you mix plywood and stainless, seal it into fiberglass then trickle water into it over 45 years.










"This is your chainplate.

This is rust.

This is your chainplate on rust. Any questions?"










(Am I the only one who thinks that picture above looks like the bad robot in "The Black Hole" (the 80s version), if he'd been made of in rust?

Anyone? ::crickets chirp:: Awww.)


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Rudder thingie fixed*

Way back when I posted this pic:










Peter the Surveyor opined that since this was dribbling water -- this being that rudder thingie (heel? I'm blanking again on the name) -- it was probably also an access point for water. He had told us to remove it, clean everything up and then slap some 5200 on it.

So another of the projects we tackled in May-June was that.

Here it is off:










I forget the significance of the bolts and why they were in the picture, but I don't think those were the originals. Husband had to drill the old ones out, I thought.

This is what happens when you write about what you did a couple months after you did it...

Anyway, this is where it was, in varying stages of being cleaned up.

















For some reason, I don't have a picture of it when he'd put it back on and slathered liberally with 5200. I offer this random image in my photo collection instead.










(No, I don't usually take pictures of oxen. It was at the fair!)

The fixed heel looks like it's got a case of rabies, what with the 5200 ooze factor, but it hasn't dribbled since.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Whistle while you work...*

While the Husband did all the sawing and what not, I busied myself in the "wow, you know, 27' doesn't mean all that much room below, does it?" space by trying to clean off a few years of grime and also scraping paint. I think boats like this were advertised as "spacious". Spacious if you aren't two fat people trying to clean/work on a boat at the same time!

Anyway, the paint was doing a good job of coming off on its own. Here's a few random shots of how things looked "Before".

Peely. Most of the ceiling (is it a ceiling in a cabin when it's over your head?) looks and/or looked like the top of this nook.










Unscraped starboard side. I had to choose a side since all the tools and general 'stuff' were sitting on the unused berth. You can see the high watermark in the first photo (this is looking back to the stern, engine is to the right).

















Scraped, but dirty port side. I think those little plastic lights are ugly and want to replace them. They are probably brand new, but I just don't like how they look in a boat.

















The lack of paint on this wood is more from just falling off when than me having to scrape it. I'd like to cut the top off of this to be able to really get at the lockers underneath and to dry out where the drawer goes (under right part of the photo). Now that I have all fall winter and spring to do stuff, maybe we will. Will be a pain to fix the drawer slides otherwise.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*...doo dee doo doo doo doo doo (that's the whistle part of the song)*

Here is it cleaned with a mix of TSP and water. Getting the watermark out of the locker improved things a lot. Most of the stuff on the wall was just grime and came right off along with more paint. The watermark was grime + oil residue.

































All of my work was not without peril. We'd put the bilge covers back in after I'd oiled them (sure looked nicer than the rest of the floor) but the supports to one of them had rotted out and gave way while I was stepping on it. Thumb nail met edge of hanging locker just perfectly to bend it back and-- gah, gives me creeps to remember it.

Suffice to say, ow.










Doesn't look like much, but hurt like hell at the time. Stupid bilge cover locker support thing! Bad boat!

Also, boy, do I have a very ungirly thumb. Thing looks like it belongs to a lumberjack.

After I washed the fiberglass, I hosed everything down, and went over it with a rag soaked in acetone and used a mouse sander to, well, sand. Then I went over it again with the rag to get any dust and wax off and masked off any trim still left.

Then I applied some paint. It's tinted a pale yellow (Yellow is a happy color).

Here's some not great pictures of the result:


























While I took the photo crooked, I like this last picture 'cause the tarp looks like those Nazgull from Lord of the Rings and it and the boat hook look like the mop from that Swiffer commercial trying to woo their way back into the the house. No entry for you, Mr. Tarp and Hook!

Anyway, while I like the color a lot (it cheers up the cabin) I am not happy with my efforts to not spend a fortune on cabin paint. I'd read elsewhere that Porch and Floor paint would be a good alternative to paint that has a boat on the label (therefore costing more) and while it worked per se, I just didn't care for the overall end result. The texture is too rough, even with a foam roller and I rather liked the smooth texture of the paint that used to be there (like on the bulkhead where it wasn't peeling off yet). I think my overall dislike is because the paint is latex and while that makes clean up both easy and fun (who doesn't like to peel a sheet of colorful rubber out of a paint tray when it's dried?), it's just too... texture-ish.

Or something. I'll probably try an alternative when I get back to painting.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Where we're at now*

So with the chainplates out and half the cabin cleaned, we didn't do much more before we had the boat moved. We totally cleaned everything out (except for ever present paint chips) and an inch of persistent bilge water, and siphoned/pumped out 15 gallons of gasoline that actually wasn't nearly at watery or gunky as the surveyor had thought -- we used a separator and very little didn't go into the gas can. Then we filled the car with it and the car seemed perfectly happy. Saved us 40 bucks or so on gas!

At the moment, Tigress is still empty except for a manual bilge pump from West Marine (those aren't the best pumps, btw, they squirt a lot of water back out from where the hose doesn't really screw well into the pump). We spent yesterday post-move crawling around and wiggling hoses because we want to replace the manual pump and we were trying to figure out what hose went where. There's at least one mystery hose we haven't sorted out yet. I also found that the boat is sloped back on the stands because water in the cockpit doesn't run forward into the scuppers anymore. That's going to be a little annoying I think, 'cause nobody wants to stand in collected water. Ah well.

The hauler had tied the mast really well to the boat and I made an inquiry to the yard mechanic about who's job it was to take it off.

Me: "Do I need to schedule it being taken off?"

"That's up to you. If I take it off, I'm going to use the crane and it will cost you."

My unspoken thought was that I wasn't sure what the options could otherwise be, us being crane-less and all. The Tartan's mast is not like the Ospray mast where I can pick it up and walk around with it. 

I told him to go ahead and do it, even if it will cost something. Not having to do the limbo to duck under the mast and/or the various lines holding the mast to the deck will make working on the boat easier.

That's everything through yesterday; now I'm caught up with our Tartan 27 adventures.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Rainy Day Sunday*

Today it was overcast and started to drizzle the moment we went to do something "outdoors", so we weren't able to do some of the stuff we wanted.

However, we managed to do a few things to the Ospray and one thing for the Tartan 27.

We fetched the Ospray from the storage place down the street and toted it home. With a wheel jack on the tongue of the trailer, it's pretty easy to roll it into our driveway. I trust the condo association will be OK with us having it there for a day or two.

I got the hose and started to rinse it off for the third or so time; trying to get what was left in the cockpit out through the drain hole. Paint chips, tiny bits of styrofoam from the old mast, pine needles, etc. This is when some very light rain started, so I probably looked dumb "washing" my boat in the rain and making this minor eco-disaster.










I also mixed up some TSP and water and gave the hull, deck and seats (can't reach the rest without being in the boat) a wash. It wasn't filthy but there was dirty. A bit scrubbing got some of the black spots off the no-skid and I bet some Ajax or something would have worked better. We are, I think, going to sand and paint that, so I didn't fuss too much.

The gelcoat on the hull has various dings and scratches, not atypical for a boat that's probably not been treated with kid gloves and has banged up against rocks, docks, and whatever. Nothing too bad, though some go through to the glass.

We took off the coamings. A couple screws had to be coerced out, but mostly things came off all right. Armed with a narrow scraper, a rubber mallet and a bored expression, I worked and whacked my way around the cockpick to separate the silicon caulk holding the wood against the fiberglass from the wood so we could gently pry what I think is mahogany off.

It doesn't look that bad without the wood.Better with it, of course, but not that bad without.










You see how worn the cockpit paint is. Floor board inserts go over much of that, but there looks to be two layers of paint that have come up.

Here's another shot towards the stern.










Here's the coaming pieces.










A couple ends of the transom piece were "torn" and soggy/wet. We're thinking of rounding the corners to get rid of the bad wood.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*I suppose we do need the rain...*

The weather is supposed to be rainy at least through Wednesday, which is a bummer. So sunny through the summer and now it rains when I have a boat in my driveway I wanted to scrape and paint. Ah well. If it's crappy tomorrow, we'll plop it back in storage for a bit. It's a five minute drive.

There are a couple things on the Ospray we're puzzled by in the "what's this for" sense. Maybe someone out there knows.

This little piece of wood has been affixed to the centerboard trunk between the cam cleats. No idea what it does it did or might do.










The other thing are a group of fixtures forward of the mast hole (that we need to widen since our new mast won't fit)

I have documentation on how to rig, etc, but I don't see any mention of these things. I'm guessing maybe (??) some kind of small anchor holder?










(Husband's expression here is an odd mix of concern and confusion thought I don't know why. I had taken this picture to capture the "clean" side vs the "not cleaned" side -- when it's small they both look really shiny and clean (they aren't), but now it's a "WTF is this?" picture.)

Meanwhile, the Tartan's onboard manual bilge pump was kaput, so we bought a new Guzzler. We've also tried 2 of the West Marine manual pumps, the kind that look like old school tire pumps, only with corrugated plastic hose. No matter what we do, about half of what we pump squirts from where the hose goes into the pump, so husband came up with a temp solution using the Guzzler, at least until we figure out where the current manual bilge pump hoses are going.

He tacked the Guzzler to a board so one can brace it with foot or hand, and we bought a sump pump hose (24' for 10 bucks, which is a lot less than the white hose that looks just like it, but is on a roll). We had to get an adapter to bring the size down from 1 1/2" to 1 1/4" and then the hose didn't quite fit.

We (independently) came up with the idea of heating the hose with my hair dryer until it could be manipulated over the barb end. Husband did stand there for about two minutes wondering why the dryer wasn't heating until he realized you have to push the "hot" button. Guess who doesn't use a hair dryer. 

That worked. So we ended up with this:










The "in" hose isn't attached yet.

I'm still not quite sure why we don't just put the pump in permanently but in the short term, I think this will do a better job than the crappy pumps we got from the store. Just in time for rain, too, falling through gasketless lockers... Whee!


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I'd be with you that those fittings forward and stbd. of the mast on your OsprAy are for holding down a smallish Danforth style anchor or lunch hook.

Regards the Tartan and bilge pumps here is an idea: If you have a through hull depth or speedometer sending unit they can be removed and will allow any water to leak out of the hull which would limit the amount of flooding you endure in your cabin. Of course this idea does not work so well when your boat is actually in the water so good for you for replacing the manual bilge pump. I get to use the leaky WM type of pump you described over the winter to drain out the deep part of our bilge as our boats on board manual pump is as old as the boat (1967) and barely functional, at best.
For electronic bilge pumps I'd suggest you look at the centrifugal Rule bilge pumps, either automatic (w/float switch) or not. They are about 1/5 the price of the stupid Jabsco diaphragm pumps ($250) that seem to malfunction when you look at them. For the price of one Jabsco diaphragm pump i can buy 5 Rule pumps and just replace them as they fail. So far 2 years of success with a non-automatic Rule pump (800 gph or so) jammed down into the lowest sump in the bilge near the center board trunk near the engine. I like the non-automatic pump because I like to know when water is getting in and I don't like automatic pumps draining my batteries. If we did not visit our boat nearly every week it might be different and the automatic pump might be used instead. It has also been a pretty dry summer till now. Automatic bilge pumps have a way of re-cycling that will drain a battery bank pretty fast.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Pump up the jam*

Thanks for the advice on the pumps. I've been wondering what to do about that. Right now, the boat will take on some water just sitting on the stands -- I'm pretty sure some/a lot come in through the icebox since it has no gasket or door. I've yet to come back to the boat in any weather and NOT find water in the bilge, so I know its' getting in. Also, at the moment we do have a bunch of little holes where the teak grab rails were, so that'll let something dribble in.

We also don't have any sort of battery in the boat, so unless the pump is automatic in the it-has-its-own-battery sense, it's not going to run anything down.

Speaking of bilge pumps, the manual pump (the installed one, not the "bike" bumps) has a clearly defined "in" hose, and an outhose that goes to the same scupper as the deck one. That all makes perfect sense. Little air vent loop on the way out and all.

But if you can imagine an upside down U, with the right side being the way out of the boat, there is a T fitting about halfway "out" that a hose is connected to. The other end of the hose appears to go down into the bilge.

We couldn't figure that one out. Wouldn't this mean that some of the water you're pumping out hang a right at the T and end up back in the bilge?

I'll have to snap a picture next time.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Tiller, redux*

At least it's a different tiller.

Rainy, rainy day, so grabbed the Ospray's tiller to sand down and prep for some stain and what not.

It's heavier and more substantial than the Tartan's tiller for some reason, and I don't think it's made out of ash.

It had moss growing on it when I got it.

Here's it before:










And after sanding through 220 grit and a Soft Scrub bleaching.










Sunday we also shop-vac'd a bit more inside the cuddy cabin. I think "cuddy" means "there's no way a human can fit in here". Put the cockpit floorboards (sole boards?) back in to hide the worn paint, deciding we could wait to tackle that Some Other Time. At the very front of the cuddy, there's a little shelf where the mast had rested and vomited much of the flotation styrofoam bits out onto said shelf. Shop Vac took care of that so hopefully boat is styrofoam free. As we all know, those peanuts multiply.

I think, if it's not raining tomorrow, we'll go to the yard and relieve the Tartan of a bounty of bilge water. I'm wondering how hard it would be to take the head off since I can't really ever paint in there with it in the way.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Big boat work*

Went to the yard today to work on the "big boat". We tried out husband's Guzzler pump set up, worked great to flush out the bilge. Other than the bilge and the cabin sole, most of the boat seems drier than I've seen it ever, which is great after a week of mostly rain. Even the icebox was dry, which is a first.

I thought I saw a tiny drip of water out of the repaired rudder heel, so I think he might have to look at that again just to make sure it's sealed up right.

Inside, we didn't do a lot we hadn't done before:

More scraping. A drier boat means that more paint is happy to fall off and fall of it did. Since we have a whole six or seven or eight or whatever months to work on this girl now, I dispatched husband to take out some things off the hull that we hadn't before, shelving support mostly.

And since I hate the original sink and counter, we're starting to dissemble that.

After a lot of paint and what not, I used BucketMax to vacuum up a lot of chips. I feel like my arms have been soaking in fiberglass though, not sure why. Maybe particles in the air from the multitool chewing through tabbing. Just vague left over itchy feeling.

I'd post a picture but nothing looks any different to anybody who wasn't there. My current (short/immediate version) To Do list looks like this:

1) finish removing shelves/supports/sink
2) remove head 
3) remove top of quarter and V berths for access to things we need access to

(these are all things that will help us in the overall clean/paint more easily)

4) scrape scrape scrape
5) start engine removal process

If we get totally tired of being IN the boat, we can go outside and prep the bottom for eventual paint.

I'm loving the shorter drive. It really helps!


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Comments from a fellow Tartan 27' owner.

The ice box can be a PITA for water entry if the hull is not stored level. We had problems with this last winter when our hull was canted up at the stern which allowed the water to pile up and puddle into the cabin (away from the drain hole in the ice box). Duct taping the outside access hatch in the cockpit temporarily can help keep some moisture out. Ultimately though, removing the ice box is probably a good idea as I'm sure you have coolers etc.

I am curious how you make out with removing the shelves in the main salon of the cabin. I haven't quite figured out how they are hung onto the hull and we have a small soft deck spot on the Stbd side near the aft end of the Dog House or cabin top that I would like to try to repair from underneath. I think I have a lifeline stanchion there that must have leaked into the plywood/balsa core.

My alcohol stove and sink could stand to be replaced too. Hopefully this will be easy to do.

If your 'head' is original it should be a Wilcox-Crittendon (WC) unit which is superior to any cheap Jabsco replacement model. I believe that I have the original WC (water closet?) head on my T27 as it still functions after 8 years of owning the boat and perhaps 43 years in total lifetime. It might be worth investigating to see if you can still find any 'W/C' branding on it. If so you might consider just getting the repair or service kit for it: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|806|315199|315203&id=223879
The cheaper Jabsco heads have a reputation for failing after only a few or no years.
While you are at this you might want to look at the holding tank itself (should be under the port seat cover (lazarette?) in the cockpit). If the sniff test fails it might be worth replacing that too; we did about 7 years ago. The hoses themselves can also absorb (believe it or not) stink so they could be candidates for replacing as well. The test for the hoses involves using a damp rag that you wipe on the hose and then sniff the rag for nastyness.
I'm pretty sure you can figure out how to remove the head (bolts around the base) and hoses (hose clamps) etc. as you seem pretty capable. Having some bleach around while you do this may help if there is any nasty liquid still in the mechanism (I'll bet you had this figured out as well).

Engine removal process.
I've never removed the A4 from our boat but I have read a lot at the Moyer Marine forums and done some carb and water pump work on ours. One bit of advice that I read and used makes a lot of sense: take a lot of pictures of how everything is set up before you start taking it apart. Another tip is to remove as much of the adjunct parts (carb, water pump, manifold, starter motor, alternator, flywheel and cover) before trying to hoist this 300+ # engine out of your boat. I don't know how much weight taking all this stuff off your engine amounts to but it adds up to something fairly significant - like I said, I haven't had to remove my A4 from my boat, yet.
I've referred you to the MMI forums before so I won't belabor the point but there is a guy up in ME who is trying to overhaul his engine as well that has been given a boat load of good advice (over a few months) about the process. It is long winded but worth skimming through for some details that you may encounter with your own engine: Atomic Four Rebuild?? - Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community
Everything regarding the engine is important: the electrical wiring, the nuts and bolts that hold each component to the block, the cooling water hoses, engine alignment and supports/engine mounts, fuel delivery system, ignition and the lubricating oil. I forgot the exhaust system as well as battery power. If one component is not right it can make for an unhappy day so it is best to proceed slowly and carefully.

I enjoy your your posts so keep 'em coming. Please.


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## SwedeBoy (Apr 8, 2010)

daydreamer92 said:


> Speaking of bilge pumps, the manual pump (the installed one, not the "bike" bumps) has a clearly defined "in" hose, and an outhose that goes to the same scupper as the deck one. That all makes perfect sense. Little air vent loop on the way out and all.
> 
> But if you can imagine an upside down U, with the right side being the way out of the boat, there is a T fitting about halfway "out" that a hose is connected to. The other end of the hose appears to go down into the bilge.
> 
> ...


It _*could*_ be that the second hose going back down int the bilge is meant for a connection to an automated and/or battery powered pump and the T(or Y) connector is simply to let them expel their water through the same through-hull into the ocean/lake/what have you. Just a theory I had.


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## daydreamer92 (Feb 16, 2010)

CalebD said:


> Comments from a fellow Tartan 27' owner.
> 
> The ice box can be a PITA for water entry if the hull is not stored level. We had problems with this last winter when our hull was canted up at the stern which allowed the water to pile up and puddle into the cabin (away from the drain hole in the ice box). Duct taping the outside access hatch in the cockpit temporarily can help keep some moisture out. Ultimately though, removing the ice box is probably a good idea as I'm sure you have coolers etc.


I've waffled back and forth on whether I want it out or in. And you're right, now that the boat is tipped further back (though not quite enough for the water in deck to drain out of holes in the taffrail), the water isn't puddling inside the fridge and coming out inside like it did when the boat was tipped forward like at the other yard.

That said, I sort of *like* the icebox idea and with the door on it, I think it looks spiffy. If we can insulate it properly and seal the cockpit lid well with a proper gasket (the current is totally shot), maybe it'll work. Else we'll take it out like everybody else does.



> I am curious how you make out with removing the shelves in the main salon of the cabin. I haven't quite figured out how they are hung onto the hull...


The ones in the main cabin, we just unscrewed from the supports and they came out. The ones in the Vberth were tabbed in from underneath (and painted white), but the nice varnished shelves were just screwed in.



> My alcohol stove and sink could stand to be replaced too. Hopefully this will be easy to do.


No stove here, just a "raised" sink and a "low" counter. It's really ugly and the counter seems too low to be comfortable to use.



> If your 'head' is original it should be a Wilcox-Crittendon (WC) unit which is superior to any cheap Jabsco replacement model.


Indeed the original seems to have been a W-C since that's what the "how to use the head" plaque on the bulkhead references. That original head has been replaced with a Raritan that doesn't look to have ever been used. The hoses and "poop bag" style holding tank also appear new, though the head and hoses are quite grimy like the rest of the interior.

Truly, from the looks of many things, including the previous interior paint job, the hoses, wiring, some deck hardware, compass, lewmar hatches and small opening ports, etc -- I am pretty sure the PO was investing some significant cash in updating Tigress before he became ill. It likely deteriorated once he was too sick to continue and passed away. I think rainwater intrusion and being flooded for while destroyed the inside paint job (and the engine) and left dried mold and a lot of grime everywhere. If it hadn't flooded, it would have looked in much better shape.

The only reason I want to take out the head is because it will facilitate cleaning it and the head... room?... area? locker? -- the place the head is in.



> Engine removal process...
> 
> I've referred you to the MMI forums before so I won't belabor the point but there is a guy up in ME who is trying to overhaul his engine as well that has been given a boat load of good advice (over a few months) about the process. It is long winded but worth skimming through for some details that you may encounter with your own engine: Atomic Four Rebuild?? - Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community


I've read the MM forums and also have his A4 book as well. We need to take the engine out to hopefully repair it and put it back in, as well as to access Stuff Behind the Engine. Crane time for this yard seems to be about $125/hr so we'll ask 'em to pull it out when it's ready and then see if we can't take it all apart and put it back together so it's chugging along again. I don't have any particular desire to replace it entirely unless I have to.

I appreciate your contributions to this thread too -- it's always good to hear from another active T27 owner!


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## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

Daydreamer, it is good to read about your progress. As for the A4 you already know where to go. From what you have done to the boat already it sounds like both of you know how to use tools. it is for that reason that I would say pull the engine yourselves. You're sailors so you know how to use block and tackle and that engine is not tthat heavy. Using a home build frame (A-frame) you should be able to pull it and then taking the engine apart is pretty straight forward, saving you a lot of money. Start by pouring in some MMO (Marvin Mystery Oil) to losen everything up on the inside and PB-blaster/WD-40 on all the nuts and bolts. 
The Moyer sight will help you through the process and with parts.
Good luck.
E-J
proud owner of an old 1972 Irwin 32' Classic


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## mylynne (Aug 4, 2010)

daydreamer92 said:


> As I've mentioned in my intro, we bought a fixer upper Tartan 27. She's seen better days but then again, so have I. We're the same age.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The slot your asking about is for a padded back rest. The settee was to be an easy convertible. My Dad had hull #28. They are good boats, watch your decks they are very prone to soft spots.


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## drcov (Feb 26, 2000)

*Back rest*

Where did the back rest connect on the other end.


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## thomasc (Jan 2, 2011)

hey daydreamer,
awsome job on your boat and your writing.I just spent the last hour+ thouroghly enjoying your thread. I hauled your boat for you.


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## Padeen2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Nice work! Keep your courage up; there's an end somewhere out there.


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