# Boston to Bermuda singlehanded in an O'Day 34. Crazy??



## woolswtr

Hi everyone,

I bought my O'Day 34 last year to use as a liveaboard and hopefully more. So far she's been everything I've hoped for. I took one direct shot trip Boston to Acadia (2 overnights at sea) with 2 crew last season with no problems. 

I'm contemplating purchasing a Monitor windvane and heading to Bermuda in June to watch the Marion to Bermuda race come in. I don't think I'll be likely to convince any crew to come with me as I'm pretty inexperienced offshore, plus the singlehand experience appeals to me.

My question is... would I be stupid to try this? The boat is in pretty good shape, and I'll go over her thoroughly before leaving, but I can't afford to do any major overhauls (not that I know of any needed). 

I'm young and in pretty good shape, so hopefully I wouldn't be the weak link.

Opinions? Encouragement? Cautions? Anyone done this sort of thing in an O'day 34/35 that can comment? 

Thank you all!

-Mike


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## Boasun

Take a couple of friends with you and only use your right hand.....LOL

Seriously, see if you can go a few days with only catnaps in place of true sleeping. such as going from Early Friday morning until late Sunday night. And if you find you can do so and with being reasonably sane and awake, then enjoy your trip.


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## Freesail99

I don't think an O'day is the boat to make THIS trip with.


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## sailingfool

*Oday 34*



woolswtr said:


> ....I'm contemplating purchasing a Monitor windvane and heading to Bermuda in June to watch the Marion to Bermuda race come in. I don't think I'll be likely to convince any crew to come with me as I'm pretty inexperienced offshore, plus the singlehand experience appeals to me.
> 
> My question is... would I be stupid to try this? The boat is in pretty good shape, and I'll go over her thoroughly before leaving, but I can't afford to do any major overhauls (not that I know of any needed).
> .....Opinions? Encouragement? Cautions? Anyone done this sort of thing in an O'day 34/35 that can comment?
> ....-Mike


Mike,
This board has had several discussion threads about what makes a boat suitable for offshore use, I wouldn't think an Oday 34 so suitable, although you might get there and back just fine. I think this question is similar to the tread as to whether a Catalina 36 is suitable for such use, both are fine coastal boats, read this story and make your own judgement: http://equipped.com/0698rescue.htm


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## camaraderie

Mike...ditto that especially single handed with no ocean experience. You are looking at a week at sea or more, crossing major shipping lanes, out of reach of a port to pull into and crossing the gulf stream. The boat is built for coastal cruising (I had an O'day 32 so I know the build quality). 
Sounds like a lot to take on all at once. 

In your favor is the time of year and your youth and presumed fitness. I can't tell you "Don't do it" but I'd fell better if you'd done some single handed shorter blue water trips first. Good luck on your decision making.


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## ReverendMike

Crazy, definitely crazy, are you taking your dogs? 

Are you trying to test my motto? (see below)


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## bestfriend

Just curious, not planning to do it, but what about in a CS34? Coastal cruising only? Thats all I bought it for.


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## sailingdog

If you're planning on going as a straight shot, bluewater only passage, I would recommend DON'T. You could go down the coast and across...but that would take considerably more time, however it would give you significant experience single handing. It could also be done as several short offshore passages down the coast and then west to Bermuda... with the passages increasing in length and difficulty as you go.


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## TSOJOURNER

I might help you out. Presently based in Rockport, MA and I am a long haul rider, 40 hours or more straight through is not a problem.

Single handed is ok but anything can happen, twist your ankle, break an arm, having a spare hand available is an alternative and having alternatives is much more comforting than not.

Bob in Rockport


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## BarryL

Hello,

I don't know if it's crazy or not.

According to O'day, the boat was designed for blue water cruising.
The brochure for the boat is available here:
http://oday.home.att.net/brochures/34b.htm

Of course the brochure is for marketing purposes.

The previous owners of my boat, a 1986 O'day 35, cruised from
the Newport RI area to the Caribbean, and lived there for two years.
I know they did at least one of the trips non stop and offshore.

The o'day is lighter than a 'typica' blue water boat, but that's an
advantage in lighter wind. Compared to many of the race boats that
will be making the trip, the O'day will be more comfortable and probably
safer than many.

Good luck with your decision.

Barry


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## sailingdog

My main concern with a straight bluewater shot is the lack of experience woolswtr has. Weather planning/routing has gotten much better, and if he had more bluewater experience, I would still be hesitant to have him do the straightshot.


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## camaraderie

Barry...you have to understand the marketing brochures. Off shore means just that...off the shore...otherwise known as coastal cruising!! 
In any event...the boat will be fine in bluewater as long as conditions are fine. 
The trouble with blue water is that when conditions are not fine and the boat is not fine you have no where to go but down. That is one of the real risks in a coastal boat. The risks in this trip are addative and none will really be important until one thing goes bad.


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## sailingdog

Generally, it isn't any one thing that really screws you over btw... it is a lot of little things going wrong that really screws you.... While people have made bluewater passages in an O'Day, it wouldn't be my choice of boat for doing so. I'd take a Flicka, Bristol Channel Cutter, Cape Dory 28, Alberg 30, or Southern Cross 31 over the O'Day for that type of work...


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## woolswtr

Thank you all for your replies, I very much appreciate the advice. 

First in response to the "go south first, then east" idea by sailingdog. I believe it's just about as far from any point on the east coast to bermuda, with Cape Hatteras still being about 550nm and Martha's Vinyard being about 570nm. 

In response to sailingfool and mention of the Catalina 36 story on equipped.com, I'd already read this and taken it to heart... but taking the problems with the boat one at a time, I'm not worried. I would bring full replacements for everything in the wheel steering assembly and an adequate tiller; my O'day has never leaked a drop; and I would have all the rigging professionally inspected and would only sail if the rigging was given a clean bill of health. 

In general, I disagree that O'days (at least those from the early 80's) are made with the quality attributed to Hunters & Catalinas. I understand that an O'day 34 once won the Marion to Bermuda race in it's class.

I wholeheartedly agree with some shorter singlehanded trips first... I would be taking a singlehanded run up to northern Maine as a shakedown cruise before Bermuda... not way off shore, but definitely out of sight of land.

While the bermuda trip would be way out away from any port, I would at any point in the trip have enough fuel on board to make it either on to bermuda or back to the east coast motoring... this gives me a lot more confidence.

Thanks for all your opinions.

-Mike


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## Brezzin

Why don't you just do the bermuda 1-2 That way you'll have the company of other boats.

http://bermuda1-2.org/

To late for this year but by the time the next one rolls around....


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## Brezzin

Doesn't the marion-bermuda act more as a rally than a race anyway? You should just do the race.


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## camaraderie

Mike..I think the SD recommendation for a down south and over trip was more to get you some offshore singlehanding experience BEFORE crossing to Bermuda than to cut down on distance. Your plan to single hand up to maine coastally is OK but you really can't sleep safely in coastal situations like that. A much better test trip would be say Block Island to Norfolk...about 3 days...major shipping lanes and much further off shore. 
Anyway....sounds like you are committed to do it and making some good prep steps. You will be either buuying or renting a raft and an EPIRB for the trip right? Also suggest you look into weather routing/gulf stream analysis for the trip as it can help make the trip go a lot faster and keep you out of trouble. What will you be using for communication? 
Keep us posted on your progress...will be interested to follow you.


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## Bill Mc

If a fellow can cross the Atlantic Ocean from England to the good ol' U.S.A and back in a West Wight Potter. I feel that with enough experience, a good weather window and a dash of good luck you can sail anything anywhere.

Look at what Shackleton accomplished ***

Edit; Take along an EPIRB..

Fair Winds,

Bill


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## JimHawkins

sailingfool said:


> Mike,
> ... read this story ...
> http://equipped.com/0698rescue.htm


It seems like an awful lot of things broke in a short period of time. Does this suggest the boat was not in seaworthy condition?


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## woolswtr

In response to those who have suggested participating in the marion to bermuda race, or the bermuda 1-2. I totally agree with the saying that the most dangerous piece of equipment on a sailboat, is a schedule. Thus I'd feel a lot safer not having to leave at a particular time or return at a particular time.


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## hellosailor

I second the thoughts that wx can be a major issue on that crossing. If you can read up on wx prediction and planning, as if you were planning for the race itself, and understand the gulf stream forecasting and observations, you'll have some idea of what is involved besides "driving the bus", so to speak.

Then, you need to be able to say to yourself "Well, I'm all psyched for this trip but if the wx looks like it won't be good...I'm going to cancel, even if that means cancelling an hour before departure time."

Also take a look at the navigation charts for approaching Bermuda. Missing it is not a problem--but there are plenty of shoals, and you will be arriving fatigued on a solo run, so you'll be a prime candidate to add to the list of wrecks.

The trip certainly is possible. A look at the ORC regulations and the race entry rules will tell you what is required of boats (in terms of size and equipment) before the experienced organizers think your boat can do it safely. But the human element, sailing solo, and arriving fatigued, is going to be the weak point.

Probably way more fun to do it with at least one other hand on the boat, too.<G>


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## Brezzin

Actually the the most dangerous piece of equipment is the skipper's bad judgment. 

The old saying is goes that good judgment is a function of experience
Experience is a function of bad judgment. Almost everyone who has responded to this thread has said the same thing. Get more experience. In New England their is really no great way to get multi-day single-handed blue water experience. Possibly Portland or Boston to Halifax but basically your looking at Bermuda. I suggested the races because you can share your part of the ocean with other boats. Regarding a weather window, The go/no go decision is always with the skipper. I certainly understand the schedule thing, but you, the skipper must make the final call regardless of when. The races provide an opportunity for commraderie with other skippers for planning and a target date to work toward.

Furthermore, If you need perfect weather for 6 days (one way) before you set off on this trip then I think you have the answer to your orignial post. I say this because there is way too much wiggle room in a six day forcast.

Dave


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## flomaster

Wow--alot of pessimism in this thread, and before I sound out, I'll preface it by saying this:

Think safety first!

Now for my humble opinion. For the past decade or so it's been my job to train Marines. Over the years I've seen some that have natural aptitudes for different types of things, and I've seen some that need a little more instruction than the others do. I've seen the same thing on the water: there are those that appear to be born at the helm (regardless of age or experience) and those who could spend a lifetime in a boat and not know stem from stern. Hang out at the local marina and you'll see the same thing. You need to take a good hard look at yourself and decide which end of this scale you fit into. Bottom line is, it's your life and your boat thats at stake here. We really aren't in a position, from behind our laptops, to tell you whether you can do this or not, or whether your boat will make it or not. Your judgment starts now...at the helm it's already too late. If you feel like you're up to the task, go for it! You'll never get anything accomplished if you first overcome every possible objection. I wish you luck.

PS: I get out in a few weeks and I'll be refitting my boat after that. Might plan a trip. Maybe I'll see you there!


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## Cruisingdad

Note to self: Be nice to Flomaster. Be nice to Flomaster. Be nice to Flomaster.

PS Thank you for what you do flomaster.

***

As far as the trip: You need to be prepared for something like that. The USCG CAN stop you if they do nto feel your boat is sea worthy, if I am correct. The issue at stake is not just what danger you place yourself in, but what danger you will place the USCG or other sailors in if they have to rescue you. You put their lives at stake too. Now, if you are properly prepared and ready to tackle it (and your boat is prepared), I feel you have a right to call them if your luck turns against you. If you go out there half cocked and knowing better, than I think you should be on your own. The problem is that the USCG does not feel that way and will have to come after you no matter what.

Is your boat capable... you will need to answer that. People live on and cruise on stuff I would not take across a lake. Seriously!! On the other hand, as Flomaster said, you are the one that is ultimately responsible for yourself and if you wait for everyone to tell you it is ok... it may be a long wait. I personally feel there are better boats made for that kind of a passage. But, my comfort level and yours may be different. If you are serious about the trip, PM me and I will try and give you some thoughts.

- CD


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## snider

*Huh Rah!*

I'll second the pessimism! We're not liable you know. It always seems that advice given is always on the conservative side. If you wait for the perfect boat, time, weather, gear, you'd never make it. I just read Alone in the roaring forties, Duhmas didn't even have a bilge pump. I think the Oday is a little better boat than it has gotten credit here. I agree you shouldn't take this lightly but a little common sense and unless you get caught in the perfect storm (then god help you)or do something stupid, you''ll be fine. In the end you have to realize the risks you are taking and the situation you're putting yourself in. Look at Tania Aebi. Although it took her twice the time to find Bermuda, she got there. Point is people have rowed across the Atlantic in open boats. It's not that hard. Go for it. Hooay! Airborne 1/38th Infantry Div, Army



flomaster said:


> Wow--alot of pessimism in this thread, and before I sound out, I'll preface it by saying this:
> 
> Think safety first!
> 
> Now for my humble opinion. For the past decade or so it's been my job to train Marines. Over the years I've seen some that have natural aptitudes for different types of things, and I've seen some that need a little more instruction than the others do. I've seen the same thing on the water: there are those that appear to be born at the helm (regardless of age or experience) and those who could spend a lifetime in a boat and not know stem from stern. Hang out at the local marina and you'll see the same thing. You need to take a good hard look at yourself and decide which end of this scale you fit into. Bottom line is, it's your life and your boat thats at stake here. We really aren't in a position, from behind our laptops, to tell you whether you can do this or not, or whether your boat will make it or not. Your judgment starts now...at the helm it's already too late. If you feel like you're up to the task, go for it! You'll never get anything accomplished if you first overcome every possible objection. I wish you luck.
> 
> PS: I get out in a few weeks and I'll be refitting my boat after that. Might plan a trip. Maybe I'll see you there!


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## rtbates

How lucky do you feel? You WILL be the weak link. Experience has no substitute.

Be sure to carry a EPIRB and a liferaft. And depending on your attitude toward cold, a dry suit in case you ditch. I ALWAYS carry a wetsuit, even coastal. I hate cold water.

Best advice I could give would be to go with an experienced skipper on his/her boat and pay attention and learn.


good luck


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## camaraderie

Snider:
*"It always seems that advice given is always on the conservative side."

*Don't agree. There's a smattering of take a chance type opinion here, but the older experienced sailors like me tend to be conservative in their preparation and passagemaking rather than bold. 
There are no older bolder sailors! (Except maybe R. Gainer and he's already been given up for dead so he doesn't count!!)


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## sailhog

As a relatively inexperienced sailor, I would champion the conservative advice. Woolswtr is properly soliciting opinions, encouragement and words of caution -- and that's what he's getting. There's no excuse not to sail down the eastern seaboard in order to put his boat through its paces, experience some heavier weather, and see how he does when he hasn't had much sleep. This isn't being pessemisitc. He can take the direct route next year.
SH


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## sailingdog

flomaster-

Given his relative inexperience, and the fact that the boat is new to him... or relatively new to him. Add into that mix a new piece of gear he has never used (the Monitor Windvane) and the difficulties that crossing the Gulf Stream can present, it doesn't make much sense to advocate a straight bluewater shot to Bermuda for him this year.

He really should get the windvane and then sail with it for a few months and learn how to use it in different conditions. He should also spend enough time on his boat that he has complete confidence in it. _Doubts and fears can be real troublemakers,_ and if he doesn't have complete confidence in his abilities and his boat's abilities... he needs to work up to that point, prior to making a long, single-handed bluewater passage.

Doing the journey as a series of progressively longer coastal hops, followed by a relatively short bluewater passage is going to give him the experience, and help him have the skills and confidence needed for the longer direct bluewater passage, while allowing him options if things start to get too hairy for him.

While I'm all for "going for it", I don't think it should be done without at least a solid foundation of preparation.

Snider-

A couple of points... I don't think that Dumas was a valid comparison. IIRC, Vito Dumas wasn't a relative novice, and he had outfitted the boat he used himself, so it wasn't really an unknown quantity to him. Granted, his equipment was a bit on the primitive side, compared to what we have today, but the boat was probably considerably overbuilt. He had also had 15-20 years of experience sailing before doing his circumnavigation in the Legh II. The Legh II was also a purposely built bluewater passage maker... not a lightly built coastal cruiser.



> In 1933, Dumas commissioned Campos, who was famous for hisdouble-ender types influenced by Colin Archer, Atkins, and local native craft which had originated in the Mediterranean, to design and build a 32-footer expressly for ocean voyaging.(8) _Legh II_ was 32 feet 2 inches overall, 10 feet 9 inches wide, and had a maximum draft of 5 feet 7 inches the ultimate refinement of its type and very nearly a perfect model. She was ketch-rigged and had 9 tons of iron ballast outside.


 *IMHO,* Tania Aebi wasn't a very good comparison in many ways either. While she was essentially a complete novice, she was on a brand new boat, that was designed as a voyaging boat, and very capable of handling bluewater passages, not a coastal cruiser, over a decade old and with some unknowns in the hardware and rigging. In bad weather conditions, the Contessa 26 is going to be far more forgiving of mistakes than an O'Day 34.

Finally, just because something has been done before, doesn't necessarily make it wise or smart to repeat it. I am willing to bet that Tania Aebi would admit that she had a lot of luck, and that it could have easily gone the other way.


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## Tartan34C

Camaraderie,
In youth there is ignorance and because of that you find arrogance. But today you wouldn’t catch me dead doing some of the things I did when I was younger.

Snider,
I went to Bermuda recently on a friend’s 44 CSY and would have preferred (I didn’t like some aspects of the rig) to make the trip in the average O’Day 34. The O’Day is a nice boat and in good condition with appropriate equipment she would do fine on this trip.

The bigger problem is the skill of the skipper. Even as a teenager I realized that I needed to learn how to sail single handed offshore before I did my first trans-Atlantic. Try some coastal sailing or even sail with someone else to get some experience before going off on your own. Until you know what to expect you can’t prepare or plan for a trip like this. It’s a good first trip but no offshore trip is suitable for on the job training unless you are very very lucky.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## sailingdog

Tartan34C said:


> Camaraderie,
> In youth there is ignorance and because of that you find arrogance. *But today you wouldn't catch me dead doing some of the things I did when I was younger.*
> 
> * The bigger problem is the skill of the skipper. *Even as a teenager I realized that I needed to learn how to sail single handed offshore before I did my first trans-Atlantic. Try some coastal sailing or even sail with someone else to get some experience before going off on your own. Until you know what to expect you can't prepare or plan for a trip like this. It's a good first trip *but no offshore trip is suitable for on the job training unless you are very very lucky.*


Well said Robert...


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## TSOJOURNER

I don't think that the issue is really the boat. It's not the strongest make out there but it's far from the worst. The concern would be with how well the skipper knows her, and the sea.

It's not likely that you are going to hop on the boat and arrive in Bermuda after six beautiful days in a row on the Atlantic. It's more likely that you'll arrive dog-tired and a little wet after eight or nine days.

So - if you want to do it - more power to ya!

BUT - check the boat over yourself. If you have to hire a rigger to tell you the boat is okay, then you don't know enough to be able to fix whatever breaks out there...and stuff will break for sure.

Then, wait for some really bad weather and go sailing near your home port. If the idea scares you, then you're really going to poop your pants when you're two hundred miles from anywhere and the waves get big and choppy.

Also - learn how to use a sextant. Batteries die and GPS is no longer available. You are responsible for staying out of the shipping lanes. The big boys are not too concerned, or even aware, if you are dead ahead.

And be prepared - Bermuda is VERY VERY expensive...


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## Valiente

With most coastal cruisers (and I haven't looked up the lines or the numbers on this particular vessel type), the problem isn't "is it strong enough to do the trip?" but rather has to do with the motion of a lighter-displacement boat designed to keep going in light airs when it hits steady 25-35 knot winds and long rollers of eight to 12 feet. 

If it's a spade rudder fin keeler, it might not heave to well at all, and while it might move smartly under the right sail set (and who's steering actively when you are taking in a reef?), it will probably want active helming to avoid broaching or going wildly off course, particularly if you are sailing close-hauled and need a bit more foresail to punch through waves.

Portlights and hatches may be an issue. The stock deadlights of many production boats WILL leak or even give out when hit the wrong way by a ton of water. The hull might survive, but if you are pooped and your plywood 1/4" companionway drop boards shatter and let a ton of water below, you and your boat might suffer the death of a thousand splashes, so to speak. And again, who bails while you steer, check for chafe, adjust lines and keep a watch?

Lastly, there are certain calculation that can give an idea of how "whippy" a boat might be at sea. Some boats and skippers do fine, even with the caveats listed above, only to fall prey to persistent sea-sickness due to the rough, "snap-rolls" some fin keelers can produce. Either that or they can get injured when a boat falls off a wave or rolls 50 degrees and they break an arm.

All this is definitely worst-case scenario, but the trip you are proposing (counter the usual Gulf Stream current and with a shoal-surrounded destination) is among the more challenging you could tackle, certainly as a first solo trip. 

I would recommend trying to do deliveries on similarly sized fin keelers. Now is the perfect time of the year, as many cruisers in the Caribbean are heading north soon. At least if you are in a crew of four, you can take a break and know you've got backup of a presumed but likely level of competence.


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## woolswtr

Thank you all very much for all the advice... I really appreciate it. It's good to hear a range of opinions and a lot of you bring up good points. I especially respect CruisingDad comments about putting USCG in possible harms way when someone does something obviously stupid and gets in trouble.

I will mull it all over... and be getting my boat ready. Regardless of Bermuda, I've got a lot of sailing to do this summer!

If I do head to Bermuda, I'll post on here how it ends up going.

Thanks,

-Mike


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## Valiente

woolswtr said:


> Thank you all very much for all the advice... I really appreciate it. It's good to hear a range of opinions and a lot of you bring up good points. I especially respect CruisingDad comments about putting USCG in possible harms way when someone does something obviously stupid and gets in trouble.
> 
> I will mull it all over... and be getting my boat ready. Regardless of Bermuda, I've got a lot of sailing to do this summer!
> 
> If I do head to Bermuda, I'll post on here how it ends up going.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Mike


Fair winds. Please do consider sailing on crewed, well-found boats first around 200 miles out, in preferably harsh weather. It's 100% of the experience at 10% of the risk of doing it alone in a boat possibly not up to the task.

In the meantime, the U.S. East Coast isn't often a lee shore, so get out there and shake some stuff loose. You have from Boston to Nova Scotia some beautiful and technically challenging (tides, lobster pots, nav hazards, fog) sailing that is also well-served with "outs" should you get in over your head...so to speak!


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## sailingdog

Valiente said:


> Fair winds. Please do consider sailing on crewed, well-found boats first around 200 miles out, in preferably harsh weather. It's 100% of the experience at 10% of the risk of doing it alone in a boat possibly not up to the task.
> 
> In the meantime, the U.S. East Coast isn't often a lee shore, so get out there and shake some stuff loose. You have from Boston to Nova Scotia some beautiful and technically challenging (tides, lobster pots, nav hazards, fog) sailing that is also well-served with "outs" should you get in over your head...so to speak!


Well said... getting actual time in on the water in heavy weather is experience that every bluewater sailor should get long before doing a bluewater passage.


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## wumhenry

sailingdog said:


> Generally, it isn't any one thing that really screws you over btw... it is a lot of little things going wrong that really screws you.... While people have made bluewater passages in an O'Day, it wouldn't be my choice of boat for doing so. I'd take a Flicka, Bristol Channel Cutter, Cape Dory 28, Alberg 30, or Southern Cross 31 over the O'Day for that type of work...


What about a Bristol 29.9?
That's what I got, can't afford a n'other 'un, and would like to drive it from Norfolk to Bermuda one of these days.


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## Tartan34C

wumhenry said:


> What about a Bristol 29.9?
> That's what I got, can't afford a n'other 'un, and would like to drive it from Norfolk to Bermuda one of these days.


Properly equipped and maintained I would take a 29.9 on that trip.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## sailingdog

The Bristol 29.9 is a very solid boat... and definitely capable of that kind of journey. If it was in good shape, the crew would probably be the limiting factor.


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## TSOJOURNER

Hi Wool,
The Bermuda crossing can be quite rough. I've only had three days when I fervently wished I had never set foot on a boat and the worst one was on the way back from Bermuda to RI. After a night of 55 - 75 knot winds the wind "dropped" to 45 and shifted 120 degrees. We were getting slammed around in the boat (an Island Packet 38) in a wicked cross-sea of 15' to 20'ers. We were all bruised and sick, but there was never a question of the boat being able to hold up. 

Best of luck, and keep on sailing! 

Jeff


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## saurav16

To what extent can a Catalina 27 make passages into the ocean? Would it be appropriate to sail from NYC to Annapolis? If so can you do this by staying about 3mi offshore? Would that be safer?


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## hellosailor

Saura, the boat is fine as long as the ocean is flat as glass. Staying three miles offshore won't matter, because in some parts that will keep you in shoal waters, where wind and current may make them very rough and make things harder to handle. And, you can't just duck in for safety since many parts of the Jersey shore, etc. don't offer you any safe entry or inlets in bad weather either.

It is as much, or more, a question of what you can comfortably handle the boat in, as what the boat can handle. And, what you will have to stay OUT in.

Other than that, your weathercasting skills and your ability to wait for a weather window will probably be paramount.


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## saurav16

So basically in that boat if you hit bad weather or moderatly rough water it could get dangerous for the Catalina 27


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## camaraderie

Saurav...I used to own a C27 and LOTS of summer weather is suitable for working your way down the Jersey coast. I would hesitate to do this with an outboard alone...but if you have an internal engine I don't think there is much danger as long as you can take your time and wait for the right weather. 
Starting at Sandy Hook which is a good harbor, you have 3 inlets you can use in good weather...Manasquan, Atlantic City and Cape May. Fortunately you can get to each of them in a long days travel making 5 knots. From Cape May it is up the Delaware, through the C&D canal and over to Annapolis. 
If you are confident of your boat handling skills and have a good engine, you can do the trip in good weather without much risk.


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## Freesail99

The Delaware Bay has some very strong currents and heavy ship trafiic. I wouldn't want to do it with a sailboat with an outbroad on it.


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## hellosailor

Well, some boats take wx better than others and I know some 28' boats that are perfectly secure in 8' seas and 40+ knot winds. Given a crew that know the boat.

But IIRC 26' is the size that "small craft warnings" are designed for, meaning, it is often uncomfortable or dangerous for boats that size or less to be out in those conditions. In the Northeast, small craft warnings are fairly common, it doesn't take much weather to get that far.

The best thing you can do is to make a habit of sailing in progressively worse weather, to build your confidence and a knowledge of the boats limits. And your own of course. Work your way up to it, and when you are ready, you will know. Or, you may chose to set a limit.


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## sailingdog

HS, I believe that the small craft length is anything less than 10 meters or 33', not 26', as I've often been told that my boat is a small craft...


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## hellosailor

Closest I could find on the web was from USCG Station Chatham, which simply says there is no legal definition of "small craft".

I'm sure a more extensive search could find disagreement.<G>


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## sailingdog

HS-

Just FYI, from the website-



> A _Small Craft Advisory_ is issued to alert operators of small craft whenever sustained winds of 20 to 33 knots inclusive, and/or seas of 7 feet or greater, are either ongoing or forecasted to develop within the next 12 hours. This criteria is uniform for all U.S. Gulf of Mexico coastal waters, but may differ along the FFCantic or Pacific coasts. There is no official definition for the term "small craft" in the National Weather Service. *However, the U.S. Coast Guard considers any vessel less than or equal to 33 feet to be a small craft. *The smallest, most weather-sensitive boats can experience problems in lower winds and seas. For this reason, the headline, "Small Craft Exercise Caution," is placed in the forecast for current or predicted winds of 15 to 20 knots and seas of 4 to 6 feet.


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## hellosailor

SD-
So, an NWS page says the USCG considers one thing, while a USCG station on the uscg.mil web site says another.

Did I mention, a little searching on the web should find some contradictory opinions?<G>


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## sailingdog

What probably happened is that the USCG changed their definition, and the NWS never updated the page to match... Government efficiency at its best. 

Saurav16-

BTW, the New Jersey coastline is a really bad one to be stuck off of in bad weather. Most, if not all, of the harbors are very treacherous to enter in heavy weather, which makes it fairly dangerous for a smaller boat that gets caught off of it in heavy weather.


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## Freesail99

sailingdog said:


> What probably happened is that the USCG changed their definition, and the NWS never updated the page to match... Government efficiency at its best.
> 
> Saurav16-
> 
> BTW, the New Jersey coastline is a really bad one to be stuck off of in bad weather. Most, if not all, of the harbors are very treacherous to enter in heavy weather, which makes it fairly dangerous for a smaller boat that gets caught off of it in heavy weather.


You forgot to also say very shallow.......


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## sailingdog

Good point Freesail... yes, much of the NJ coastline is very shallow, which is a major contributor to why it is so dangerous to enter most of the harbors there in a storm... storm surge becomes really nasty breaking waves in along a lot of it...


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## TSOJOURNER

Mike's boat will be Ok. The single handed part is not my first choice for any extended passage making, anything can happen and every option is welcome.

I may go along with Mike on this cruise but don't think I can stay long enough for the return trip. Perhaps some of the other folks might be interested in fostering the return side?

I say, Mike, go for it and have some fun, learn something new and don't get stuck wishin' you were somewhere else.

Bob in Rockport


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## saurav16

So basically for sailing around NJ you really have to watch the weather and make sure you won't get caught up in a storm even if you plan on hopping port to port, is that accurate?


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## sailingdog

saurav16 said:


> So basically for sailing around NJ you really have to watch the weather and make sure you won't get caught up in a storm even if you plan on hopping port to port, is that accurate?


Pretty much.... if the weather catches you out, and you can't make it back to a port before it gets nasty... head offshore...being close to shore off the NJ coast is generally unwise in bad weather. It gets bad really fast.

The deeper the water is under you, the less dangerous the storm surge is going to be... but you're trading that off for the possibility of larger waves due to a much longer fetch, depending on the wind direction and such.


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## hellosailor

"So basically" yes.

If you look at the charts--and you must get the charts--you'll see there are large stretches where the water is way less than 100' deep extending offshore. If the wind is blowing from offshore, and the water hits the shoals, you'll get a lot of wave action. Now, add whatever current or rain flooding is coming off the land in the opposite direction, or out of entrances to harbors. 

More chop, while the wind is trying to push you onto a lee shore, and in a 27' boat you don't have a lot of power to fight that. Some of the entrance channels are also narrow, lots of shoaling and changing conditions with rock jetties on both sides. Add a bit of fog, and you've got a recipe for disaster.

I know someone who was lost within sight of shore near Egg Harbor Inlet a couple of years ago, even the USCG could not launch out the inlets to search for him.

But, it good weather? Great places to go sailing. Basically, if the weathercast shows good weather all around you, and you know it can't close in before you get back ashore, you're OK. But on the days when the weatherman are mumbling about occluded fronts and stalled systems and the probability of whatever, you've got to be more careful.


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## TSOJOURNER

> Just curious, not planning to do it, but what about in a CS34?


As a CS owner, you are truly a member of an elite, revered sector of the yachting fraternity. Your boat is capable of going anywhere you wish. Were you to fit a watermaker and additional beer fridge, a non-stop circumnavigation is not an unreasonable idea.


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## PatchyFog

As an alternative you could take part of the trip through the Barnegat bay, entering at the Manasquan inlet you could make it down to Atlantic city leaving only a shorter hop to Cape May. Of course the bay route is restricted by what you draft, and your patience.


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## petegingras

Mike,

Sounds good to me, and in five to six weeks there’ll be 300,000 college students in the greater Boston area with nothing to do. But then again, problems with your crew can be as serious as any problem the North Atlantic can brew up. Even if you obtain crew, a bad experience on the way over will make a one-way flight home reasonably inexpensive. 

As for the vessel, if you trust it and can handle reefing, sea anchoring, and possible knock-downs, obtain and register an EPIRB, rent/purchase a satellite phone, and create a land based contact network, it’s promising.

All the best,
Pete


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## TSOJOURNER

The underlying theme in this thread is personal survival.........
I would approach the voyage from that point of view..........
The Hiscocks cruised the oceans for years and (i stand to be corrected) Eric's philosophy was "this is my responsibility, if i get in trouble, i'll get out by myself"
He never expected to get rescued if he or the boat or conditions screwed up.........

It's your life.....live it or die it ........go to Bermuda !


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## harryrezz

Wlswtr, I've been "messing about in boats", to quote Mr. Toad, since I was 9, and I'm now ... well, let's just say significantly past 9, OK?
I really have nothing new to say to you. You have received bits of encouragement, a lot of suggestions that you use he utmost caution and several people have advised you to get more experience, both on your own as well as with others, before you put yourself and your boat at risk. But once you've done all that, by all means, if you still feel your vessel and its master are up to the task, go for it. You'll gain nothing in life by emaining at the dock!
BTW, Tartan34C, as an owner of a CSY 44 "Walkoverf", I'm curious to learn what you did not like about the rig on your friend's boat.


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## TSOJOURNER

....ya gotta ask yourself...DO I FEEL LUCKY?????...well do ya..??? Although not impossible, singlehanded that far is quite risky in any size or type of boat.


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## orthomartin

*specifics to ask yourself*

Almost hate to post with so many good notes so far but I think you have to ask yourself a couple questions. I for one have sailed several times on light race boats across the stream and it can make a non believer like me believe! Sea conditions can get really really bad.
One: The Oday is not always that easy to get to lay truly hove to. Have you experimented in strong conditions sail configurations to get her hove to? Oh and if you are not sure what I am talking about don't go
Two: How fast and how many times have you reefed by yourself with absolutely no help in heavy conditions? This is a must and you have to practice this before going.
Three: Do you have and do you know how to deploy a sea anchor?
Four: Can you navigate and do you have the equipment to navigate if you lose your GPS?

Don't get me wrong here. I support the adventure but you must have some heavy weather experience. Also as a final note, how would you feel if you hurt someone else while you are sleeping and your boat is sailing into theirs? I know the ocean is big but there are more boats coming out of nowhere than you think. Personally I feel the long distance solo sailors are a bit careless with my life


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## tdw

Can't comment on the boat cos we don't see many O'days of any size down here but the suggestion to join a rally seems an odd one. 

As someone who likes the idea of single handing but acknowledges the watch keeping difficulties I can still think of nothing worse than being involved in a rally. I simply do not understand the attraction (other than the safety net) of those things. That said , I am something of an anti social old bugger. I go sailing to get away from other people not to meet them. That's why god gave us cities. 

Regarding the haul to Bermuda, as has been mentioned, sleep is the tricky bit. Boason's advice is good. I've never done an overnight single handed but the trick according to the various cruising bibles is an egg timer set to 15 minutes. However before you actually set out you need to test yourself to see if you can exist for longer than 48 hours on 15 minutes catnaps. If you can't then you are in big trouble. Even two handed a longish haul is going to be hard on the crew. I'm presuming that the east coast of the US is a pretty busy place for shipping so you will have to keep good watches, even when you 'only' have to stand watch 12 hours a day, that could be a trial, particularly for any inexperienced crew or the poor soul who suffers from "mal de mer". 

BTW it's Wombat's theory that to be truely successful the ability to catnap is indispensible.


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## hellosailor

"an egg timer set to 15 minutes."
You can soldier on through a lot of sh*t but the bottom line is that sleep deprivation kills. In the past 15 years a lot of work has been done on this, and the bottom line is that catnaps are not the same as sleep, if you aren't getting enough sleep every night, at some point your body will simply TAKE the sleep it needs. That may be 5-9 hours per night depending on the person, but it will catch up to you by the end of a week, and your body will simply go to sleep when it wants to.

There are enough rocks and wrecks on the appraoches to Bermuda, if you are going to do it solo and catnap, you may as well get sleep in 5-6 hour stretches and at least be able to function for the final haul in.


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## tdw

hellosailor said:


> "an egg timer set to 15 minutes."
> You can soldier on through a lot of sh*t but the bottom line is that sleep deprivation kills. In the past 15 years a lot of work has been done on this, and the bottom line is that catnaps are not the same as sleep, if you aren't getting enough sleep every night, at some point your body will simply TAKE the sleep it needs. That may be 5-9 hours per night depending on the person, but it will catch up to you by the end of a week, and your body will simply go to sleep when it wants to.
> 
> There are enough rocks and wrecks on the appraoches to Bermuda, if you are going to do it solo and catnap, you may as well get sleep in 5-6 hour stretches and at least be able to function for the final haul in.


Tis true , as you say , but the reality is that while at certain times a single hander needs to be keeping that 15 minute window open there are also times when it would be considered safe (within reason) to have a decent kip. Part of the passage planning really. You simply cannot say that a single hander needs to be keeping a lookout 24 hours a day cos it ain't gonna happen. Yes it goes against the letter of the law but then so do lots of things.


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## ebs001

Check this out. Atom Voyages | Voyaging Around the World on the Sailboat Atom with James and Mei


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## TSOJOURNER

> today you wouldn't catch me dead doing some of the things I did when I was younger.


I'll second that - when I look back now at what we did when young, I cringe and wonder how I could have been so stupid...no motor, no radio. Had a compass, a couple of charts and a good strong boat. Best time of my life


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## eherlihy

woolswtr said:


> Thank you all very much for all the advice... I really appreciate it. It's good to hear a range of opinions and a lot of you bring up good points. I especially respect CruisingDad comments about putting USCG in possible harms way when someone does something obviously stupid and gets in trouble.
> 
> I will mull it all over... and be getting my boat ready. Regardless of Bermuda, I've got a lot of sailing to do this summer!
> 
> If I do head to Bermuda, I'll post on here how it ends up going.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Mike


...and we never heard back from the guy... and he never posted again on Sailnet.

I wonder if he tried and didn't make it?

Perhaps he decided that we (the members of SailNet) are all AFOC... I guess we'll never know.


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## deniseO30

He traded it for a Mac 26 and did world Circumnavigation?


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## tempest

There was a guy in my Marina that was taking a Mac 65 to england...interesting vessel..I got a chance to board it. it looked like a torpedo outside and felt like a submarine inside.

After reading this old thread and others, I wonder why there's always a so much doom and gloom advice given about the coast of NJ...and it's shoal coastal water? if you stay 3 miles offshore you can be in 60 ft of water for most of the coast, double that distance and you're in 100 ft. It's +/- 24 hours to do the whole coast. If you consider AC as the best bailout point between Sandy Hook and Cape May it's even shorter between stops. I've never found it overly difficult to pick a good 24 hour weather window to do this trip. Granted, the prevailing wind if you're headed south..is often in your face, but with a decent weather west wind, or a passing low..with a northerly component you could sail.

I mean, compared to the Delmarva..( delaware and Virginia coastline) ....or North Carolina, and Hatteras......why is NJ any worse? Or is it our charming personalities people don't like..

The Long island coast..while a little closer to 100 ft of water...doesn't really have an inlet that I'd attempt to enter in anything but benign weather. So heading to block..and beyond..you're committed on that coast too.

BTW...Unless I'm mistaken...the shortest distance to Bermuda from the U.S. is from Nantucket...


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## peterchech

Doesn't the sound (north) side of LI have an abundance of barrier islands and such? From the charts I would have thought it has plenty of anchorages on the way to Block Island. The south side though...


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## hellosailor

Abundance....maybe of rockpiles but they're not barrier islands like Fire Isalnd on the Atlantic side. Weather just breaks over or around them. And good anchorages that don't have rocky bottoms, or aren't formal achorage areas requiring someone's permission, or actually have enough shelter to make them useful? Not so much. Sometimes those boulders on the bottom get in the way of keels, too.

But when someone refers to the Long Island shore, they usually mean the south shore, the Atlantic side, unless they've said "Sound". All the inlets on the Atlantic side can be outright dangerous because of tidal currents, adverse wind, and shifting shoals. Just like many of the Jersey shore inlets, even the local USCG station will sometimes tell you they can't come out because the inlet is too dangerous.

The problem with the Jersey shore is that for long stretches the bottom shoals fairly rapidly, coming in from the deeps to the shore, and that change in depth produces more wave action than many people expect. Combine the rough water with a lee shore, and a lot of folks get surprised. In contrast to the LI shore "just across the way" where the waves tend to be more of rolling ones, and the bottom shoals much more gently. Folks expect NJ to be much of the same, and get surprised.


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