# A bluewater live-aboard for under $20k



## dogeconomics (Apr 22, 2013)

Hello all! Posted this over on cruisersforum, and thought I might cast my net a little wider.

Looking for some advice from those wiser and more experienced than I. Finishing up a masters degree and have found life demands the freedom that comes with living aboard. In between studying economics and sailing my little puffer 12' as much as possible, most of my time is spent doing research (which can be a little overwhelming). My uncle (proud owner of a Bristol '32) got me into this thing and now it's all I want. So heres where I need some advice. 

Looking for a simple, inexpensive, live-aboard, bluewater cruiser that is frequently available on the market. I am not an experienced sailor (but with time!). And just as I single-hand life, so do I need a boat that can solo. My total budget is $20k or less... so one in the 10k-15k range. While there will be no circumnavigating in the immediate future, nothing less than a solid bluewater boat that could sail about the Caribbean or hop to the Bahamas will do.

With Westsails, Morrises, and similar full-keel, double-ended beauties too expensive, the list has come down to the following. I welcome any advice; additions and rejections; and most especially tales of high-seas adventure. I am a handy individual (first career was working with electrics and carpentry), but am not looking for a major fixer-uper. Also love to cook, am 6' 3", and prefer a tiller.

So I turn to you, wise men and women that you are. 

Tartan 30'
Ranger 29'
Albin Vega 27'
Pearson 30', 31'
Allied Seawind 30'
Vineyard Vixen 30'
Cape Dory 27', 28' (but in what condition?)


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## Rezz (Oct 12, 2012)

First, welcome! SailNet is a friendly board, and the members are very knowledgeable. That said...

You might want to put on your flame suit. These threads on "x boat for x money" turn up a lot, and some people get snarky in their replies. Take it with a grain of salt - we're all pretty nice (usually)!

I'm also interested in hearing what people will say. I'm currently experiencing the learning process right now.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Welcome Dog. 

I don't have experience with those boats in particular, but I think you'll find that one in your budget won't be inexpensive in the long run. For that price you'll mostly find fixer uppers which will cost over time if getting them ready for going offshore is your goal. Or, you may get lucky. I wouldn't count on luck though.

Best of luck!

Huh.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

The Albin and the CDs are probably the meet the 'rugged' requirement, both are proven voyagers but neither may get along with your 6'3" frame.

As ever, you have some contradictory requirements - size vs budget vs capability - but most any well found boat can island hop in the Caribbean given time to pick weather windows. The tricky part is actually getting there from the East coast USA.

Ideally you'd find a suitable candidate already there when you're ready to cruise.. but that would preclude your 'getting to know her' at home first...

As Donna says, best of luck!


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

responded to you on CF, at 6' 2" your choices will be limited....Even the tall guys on an aircraft carrier walk down the pways with their heads tilted!

Good luck


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

If I were in your shoes, I'd consider a different approach. Since you're new to sailing, and especially "big boat" sailing, why not focus on a boat that's "offshore" capable (not to start another war about what that means) rather than blue water, and one that is in good shape and comfortable? Get aboard a decent boat, make sure the lifestyle is right for you, and that you're really up to the task (I mean no insult by the comments, just that it may be a bigger lifestyle change than you expect). Depending on your career, you may find that the week or more that it may take you to get to the Bahamas (each way) may be more than you can really do more than once or twise a year. At which point, you'll want to assess whehter your goal is to sail YOUR boat into the wild blue yonder, or whether its more economically efficient for you to charter something. 

As others have said, nobody is saying "don't do it"; heck there are several live-aboards and full-time cruisers here. Just trying to make sure you're making a fully informed decision before investing time and money into something that might bring you less happiness than you envision.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Ranger 29 is a very good sailing boat that looks good too. I'm pretty sure it will outsail the other boats on your list. A quick check of PHRF ratings will tell you that for sure.

2B is right though. You may need to compromise on headroom. I'm 6'3" and I have learned to stoop below and now I find myself doing it even on boats with 6'9" headroom.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

I like your list of boats. I would add the venerable Pearson 35, Alberg 35, and the Cal 2-30, 34 and 36 to your list. All are listed on Mahina Expedition's list of bluewater boats: 
Mahina Expedition - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

I would completely strike Cape Dory off my list, they have way too many deck problems and I'm sure your not looking to completely rebuild a boat. Old boats can be very expensive when it comes to upgrading rigging, sails... Living aboard is a very different lifestyle, I love it but most don't. On 30-40 year old boat you wont find the space you do on most modern boats so size is another issue. I have been living aboard for years, currently on a 22' cutter and love it. If you can find a decent Triton 28 that might be at the top of your list, but again, if it sounds like you are walking on a bag of Doritos when you are on deck, walk away. You might find an old Westsail 28-32 for 20K, there are dozens of Flicka's in that range. Rangers and Cal's will get the job done. Vega's are cheap, small and great sailing boats for under 10K. I would suggest putting the whole budget into the boat and doing upgrading and repairs over the years, assuming you have 20k in cash. If you are borrowing money you may be sealing your own fate on an old boat. FYI I just met a guy here in the harbor who sailed his 5K Ericson 27 from Wa to Mexico, out to Hawaii and back to WA with no complaints. I'm filming a video right now and one of the interesting things we are doing is cutting into hulls of boats built in the 60's and 70's for cross sections, very interesting stuff. We also took a 5 lb sledge hammer to a 1962 Columbia 24 but you will have to wait and see which one won


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## dogeconomics (Apr 22, 2013)

jimgo said:


> If I were in your shoes, I'd consider a different approach. Since you're new to sailing, and especially "big boat" sailing, why not focus on a boat that's "offshore" capable (not to start another war about what that means) rather than blue water, and one that is in good shape and comfortable? Get aboard a decent boat, make sure the lifestyle is right for you, and that you're really up to the task (I mean no insult by the comments, just that it may be a bigger lifestyle change than you expect). Depending on your career, you may find that the week or more that it may take you to get to the Bahamas (each way) may be more than you can really do more than once or twise a year. At which point, you'll want to assess whehter your goal is to sail YOUR boat into the wild blue yonder, or whether its more economically efficient for you to charter something.
> 
> As others have said, nobody is saying "don't do it"; heck there are several live-aboards and full-time cruisers here. Just trying to make sure you're making a fully informed decision before investing time and money into something that might bring you less happiness than you envision.


Words of wisdom. I guess the 'offshore' qualifier is more appropriate. One of the biggest draws for me is the freedom. I don't want to settle down, get a mortgage, a 'life.' I have sailors in the family, though the bug hadn't bitten me until recently.

Edit: Perhaps I should point out that I'm in my late 20s and have already had a major shift in careers.


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## dogeconomics (Apr 22, 2013)

barefootnavigator said:


> I would completely strike Cape Dory off my list, they have way too many deck problems and I'm sure your not looking to completely rebuild a boat. Old boats can be very expensive when it comes to upgrading rigging, sails... Living aboard is a very different lifestyle, I love it but most don't. On 30-40 year old boat you wont find the space you do on most modern boats so size is another issue. I have been living aboard for years, currently on a 22' cutter and love it. If you can find a decent Triton 28 that might be at the top of your list, but again, if it sounds like you are walking on a bag of Doritos when you are on deck, walk away. You might find an old Westsail 28-32 for 20K, there are dozens of Flicka's in that range. Rangers and Cal's will get the job done. Vega's are cheap, small and great sailing boats for under 10K. I would suggest putting the whole budget into the boat and doing upgrading and repairs over the years, assuming you have 20k in cash. If you are borrowing money you may be sealing your own fate on an old boat. FYI I just met a guy here in the harbor who sailed his 5K Ericson 27 from Wa to Mexico, out to Hawaii and back to WA with no complaints. I'm filming a video right now and one of the interesting things we are doing is cutting into hulls of boats built in the 60's and 70's for cross sections, very interesting stuff. We also took a 5 lb sledge hammer to a 1962 Columbia 24 but you will have to wait and see which one won


The simplicity of it all has a deep appeal. The money will be what I can throw together from my own savings, leftover student loans, and the light showering of 'thank God he did it' graduation (MA in Econ) gifts from a family of academics and sailors. I'm putting it all at about $20k. No doubt many of my 'requirements' are mutually exclusive.... so perhaps goal is to triangulate the best possibly boat for myself.


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST DEFINITIVE WEBSITES ON SMALL BOATS ANYWHERE.
Atom Voyages - Cruising FAQ


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

Welcome to the Forum.

There are some good boats out there. Just research what you like and go look at them. You have a better idea of what works for you. I'm 6'5" and didn't expect to find a boat that I can fully stand up while in the cabin and the boat I have won't allow me that unless I'm standing with an open companion way hatch.

If you want to stand, you can always go on deck.

I know the Albin Vega and CD27s are popular. The CD27s may cost a bit more than your budget is allowing. A CD25, maybe. Like Barefoot says, there are many Flickas and other boats out there. Since you're starting off, find something that will work for now and as your funds and your experience grows, you can then see what you really want if/when you upsize to a larger boat.

Good luck in your search.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

dogeconomics said:


> The simplicity of it all has a deep appeal. The money will be what I can throw together from my own savings, leftover student loans, and the light showering of 'thank God he did it' graduation (MA in Econ) gifts from a family of academics and sailors. I'm putting it all at about $20k. No doubt many of my 'requirements' are mutually exclusive.... so perhaps goal is to triangulate the best possibly boat for myself.


My first thought with this financing plan is that you are somewhat counting on student loan money you have left over (it has to be repaid at SOME point) and currently hypothetical money coming in in the form of gifts to buy the boat. And making your budget fit the as-yet-seen money. That implies that there may not be a lot planned into repairs and maintenance. Unless you have knowledge of mechanics and carpentry, you may want to wait until your boat fund is a little more shored up.

You'll do what you want in the end, but be aware of how it will look to be an advanced degree Econ major broke and homeless because you didn't plan your finances better when buying your boat. 

Just a thought.


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## Rhapsody-NS27 (Apr 8, 2012)

DRFerron said:


> but be aware of how it will look to be an advanced degree *Econ major broke and homeless *because you didn't plan your finances better when buying your boat.
> 
> Just a thought.


Leave it up to you to keep it real.


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## bruceket (Feb 25, 2013)

I would add the Islander 32, or 30 Bahama (flush deck), an old Allied Seabreeze 35. I would second a Pearson 30. And don't think your $20k budget is too limiting. I found my daughter a Pearson 26 (her first boat) for $1,200. We had to spend about $200 on new lines, cam cleats, etc. Just research ebay and craigslist daily and you'll be amazed at the opportunities. Whichever you choose just make sure she sails well. Good luck


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## katsailor (Jan 6, 2013)

check the classified section of this forum, i thought i saw a well found albin at a give away price there last week.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

The Ranger 29 will sail circles around the Vega. But having owned an Albin myself I know they are very durable boats.


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## dogeconomics (Apr 22, 2013)

DRFerron said:


> My first thought with this financing plan is that you are somewhat counting on student loan money you have left over (it has to be repaid at SOME point) and currently hypothetical money coming in in the form of gifts to buy the boat. And making your budget fit the as-yet-seen money. That implies that there may not be a lot planned into repairs and maintenance. Unless you have knowledge of mechanics and carpentry, you may want to wait until your boat fund is a little more shored up.
> 
> You'll do what you want in the end, but be aware of how it will look to be an advanced degree Econ major broke and homeless because you didn't plan your finances better when buying your boat.
> 
> Just a thought.


Valid points! Wasn't going to go into details on my finances.... but since that seems to be important to the discussion, here goes. I will have around $20k to spend. The rest... the gifts, loan extras will amount to a very small portion of that... A few thousand at most. What I look at as extra money for updates and mods. In fact, one of the reasons I'm just going for it with a boat is so I can dump all that rent/mortgage money on my pile of loans and make it go away ASAP.

And I am a good electrician, solid carpenter, and fairly competent mechanic. Used to teach woodworking in a high school, freelanced as a lighting technician, and always do my own engine repairs.  Plus there are sailors in the family that are exceedingly competent at such things.

I am good with budgeting. And this degree has taught me a few things about opportunity cost!


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

dogeconomics said:


> ...
> 
> I am good with budgeting. And this degree has taught me a few things about opportunity cost!


Sounds like you have it worked out. I can only respond to what you choose to share. That said, many have come through with your basic idea. I'd be interested in hearing from the ones (you maybe?) who actually make work what you'd like to do. They tend to disappear after not receiving the answers they expected. I'm sure one or two are out there.

I'm sure your sailing friends will tell you that there are always maintenance costs and you might be putting more of the rent/mortgage money on an ongoing basis into the boat than you expected. Even if you buy a boat brand new from the factory, there are ongoing costs.

Someone else said that no one is trying to discourage you and that's true, but before I owned a boat (and my first one was only 22 feet) I had NO IDEA how much it would cost to keep it floating even after we learned how to do a lot of the work ourselves.


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## Shinook (Jul 13, 2012)

You could easily find a CD27 or 28 in good shape for under $20k.

We own a CD27, I'm 6'1 but the cabintop scrapes the top of my head in the aft portions of the cabin, I can't stand up in the v-berth.

Personally, I'd lean towards the 28 if you can.



barefootnavigator said:


> I would completely strike Cape Dory off my list, they have way too many deck problems and I'm sure your not looking to completely rebuild a boat.


I've never seen a CD with deck problems that weren't attributable to idiot owners, what's your source/experience for that?

Any boat with improperly bedded deck hardware will develop core rot, our CD sat neglected for 8+ years and the deck is still solid and coring dry with no rot or structural damage. I've looked at a number of others in the same situation, none with deck problems. They have their select issues, but deck problems aren't one of them unless someone didn't bed their hardware properly (the factory did).


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## dogeconomics (Apr 22, 2013)

DRFerron said:


> Sounds like you have it worked out. I can only respond to what you choose to share. That said, many have come through with your basic idea. I'd be interested in hearing from the ones (you maybe?) who actually make work what you'd like to do. They tend to disappear after not receiving the answers they expected. I'm sure one or two are out there.
> 
> I'm sure your sailing friends will tell you that there are always maintenance costs and you might be putting more of the rent/mortgage money on an ongoing basis into the boat than you expected. Even if you buy a boat brand new from the factory, there are ongoing costs.
> 
> Someone else said that no one is trying to discourage you and that's true, but before I owned a boat (and my first one was only 22 feet) I had NO IDEA how much it would cost to keep it floating even after we learned how to do a lot of the work ourselves.


I am grateful for your input. These are serious, legitimate concerns that are no doubt frequently underestimated. And thats why I'm here talking with you lovely people! If it doesn't pan out, then it doesn't pan out. I'm a flexible person. Maybe I'll circumnavigate someday; maybe I'll end up in a Tibetan monastery. But right now the bug has bitten, and hard. So I'm going to pursue this until it becomes a part of my life or until I find its not for me. In any case, looking forward to any future discussions we might have.


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

Cape Dory deck problems. I've been working on boats for 25 years, The balsa cores are a nightmare. Yes they are beautiful great boats but the OP is on a serious budget and deck issues can be very costly.


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## Shinook (Jul 13, 2012)

barefootnavigator said:


> Cape Dory deck problems. I've been working on boats for 25 years, The balsa cores are a nightmare. Yes they are beautiful great boats but the OP is on a serious budget and deck issues can be very costly.


That's a problem with a lot of boats, not just Cape Dory. I'm pretty sure most of the boats on his list (if not all) have cored decks. If anything isn't bedded properly, then the core will get wet and rot. What makes you believe this is an issue exclusive to Cape Dory?

Just about every fiberglass boat needs it's decks checked and bottoms checked for blisters, among a number of other items. Just a part of surveying the boat well before you buy it. There are issues specific to the Cape Dory, but again I don't think I've ever seen one or heard anyone else indicate that decks were more of a problem than any other boat with cored decks. Either way, it's easy enough to check for.


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

Any older boat with a balsa core is going to be a nightmare. My thinking is his budget, he can get a CD with bad decks for 20k or a Triton with bad decks for 4K and have 16K left for outfitting, they call it yachting for a reason. Again I love CD boats, im keeping his budget in mind.


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## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

Recoring entire deck of 28 ft boat will cost $1000 in materials at most. and couple of weeks of labor. The job is not difficult and doesn't require PhD. Why do you call it nightmare?
It is a part of owning an old boat....


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## Shinook (Jul 13, 2012)

barefootnavigator said:


> Any older boat with a balsa core is going to be a nightmare. My thinking is his budget, he can get a CD with bad decks for 20k or a Triton with bad decks for 4K and have 16K left for outfitting, they call it yachting for a reason. Again I love CD boats, im keeping his budget in mind.


Understood, but I think you can get one for a lot cheaper with good decks. We paid a LOT less than 20k (a fraction of) for ours and our decks are fine. We recently removed a bunch of deck hardware, redrilled and filled some holes, everywhere we did so was dry. Our initial survey showed no moisture damage in the decks, either.

I've poked around with a few CDs that were less than 20k as well, all with good decks. There's no reason to believe that an older CD (or boat for that matter) can't have decent decks, provided owners have bedded their hardware over the years.

You should be able to get a CD27 for 14k or 15k with the original 8hp Yanmar, in good cosmetic and structural condition. It won't be pristine and in brand new shape, but she'll be structurally sound and have everything you need.

That said, I wouldn't deter anyone from getting a Triton  You might could also find an Alberg 30 in your price range.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Triton? Alberg 30? Great boats if you like antique performance.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

Can't believe anyone has yet to ask- are you a 'freshwater' or 'saltwater' economist?


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## dogeconomics (Apr 22, 2013)

ScottUK said:


> Can't believe anyone has yet to ask- are you a 'freshwater' or 'saltwater' economist?


HA! And why should I limit myself? Call me... a brackish economist. Or don't call me an economist because really I'm just studying the stuff.


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## Shinook (Jul 13, 2012)

bobperry said:


> Triton? Alberg 30? Great boats if you like antique performance.


What would you recommend in that price/size range?

(I'm legitimately curious, not being rhetorical)


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## JimPendoley (Jan 17, 2005)

You might consider a Pearson Vanguard. Great first boat. Good headroom, solid hull, ok sailor. Also, easy to singlehand conservative rig. Watch for core issues on deck, but relatively simple to repair. Dinette layout is great dockside for live aboard. 6-10K would get you a good start, probably with a diese, though parts for the A4 are abundant and a simpler engine was never designed.

I've been aboard full time for years and find her pretty comfortable. At 10 K you'd have money left over for newer sails, a reefer, upgraded electronics if desired, dodger etc.
The boat is plain inside, but think of it as a blank canvas since your a good woodworker.

One big plus is relatively shallow draft so you can poke your way down the coast. Many have voyaged far.


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## dogeconomics (Apr 22, 2013)

JimPendoley said:


> You might consider a Pearson Vanguard. Great first boat. Good headroom, solid hull, ok sailor. Also, easy to singlehand conservative rig. Watch for core issues on deck, but relatively simple to repair. Dinette layout is great dockside for live aboard. 6-10K would get you a good start, probably with a diese, though parts for the A4 are abundant and a simpler engine was never designed.
> 
> I've been aboard full time for years and find her pretty comfortable. At 10 K you'd have money left over for newer sails, a reefer, upgraded electronics if desired, dodger etc.
> The boat is plain inside, but think of it as a blank canvas since your a good woodworker.
> ...


Interesting! Initially I was very attracted to the Vanguard, Alberg 30, and other early models. Really liked the lines and heavy construction. But it seems there are more posts about how the hulls aren't built well, tons of deck problems, lack of internal framing, sailing comfort etc, etc. I certainly don't have a problem with time and maintenance, but I definitely want a sturdy boat. I had kinda given up on a boat that had the look I really wanted, with the exception of the Vineyard 30' and maybe the Seawind. Nothing against the other boats! Just like certain looks more than others.

The idea of a 'blank canvas' is very appealing... but I want to be certain the canvas is worth painting. Any other thoughts on them?


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## dvuyxx (Jun 23, 2009)

I think it was mentioned, but I would reitterate that boats that are 20-30 years old are built tough as nails, but their age warrants a solid professional survey. It is well worth it to spend $500+ on a survey now. Definitely test for moisture in balsa cores and the overall health of the major systems. A limited budget will benefit from one over the long haul. 

While people definitely sail Pearson 35's (my boat) trans-ocean, some people don't think they are optimal for blue-water because the cockpit is too large. It really boils down to exactly how "blue-water" you need. If it is more coastal/blue-water then your options are much greater.


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## dogeconomics (Apr 22, 2013)

dvuyxx said:


> It really boils down to exactly how "blue-water" you need. If it is more coastal/blue-water then your options are much greater.


I would say a coastal/blue-water would suit me just fine right now.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

First of all, I would suggest that there almost no such thing as a solid 'blue water cruiser' for less that $20,000 ready to go. At best you are looking at compromises. 

Boats like the Alberg 30 (I raced offshore on one of these), Triton (I have a lot of hours on these) and Vanguard (my family owned one of these) were mediocre boats offshore, when they were new and they are now nearing (and most cases passing) 50 years old. These are tired old boats with designs that never were very good offshore. And yes, I know that people have taken them offshore and survived. I did not say that they can't be taken offshore, I just said they never were very good for that purpose. 

Of the boats mentioned above, the Tartan 30 would certainly be my first choice. You should be able find a clean one in your price range, and would be a good choice to cruise the Bahamas and Carribean. But even if you found a really clean one around $10K there is a whole range of things that you would need to do to go cruising on one. You would want to add more water and fuel tankage, heavy air sails, good ground tackle and ground tackle handling gear, a good way to deal with the 'dinghy question', if they are not there-add self seteering gear, teathers and strong points, backing plates to heavier loaded items, and so on. Even doing your own work, you can quickly burn up $10K. 

I would set it up with hank-on 110 jib that can be reefed and with a downhaul to strike it from the cockpit. 

It may be old, and pressing your budget, but at least with the Tartan 30, you would end up with a boat that sails well. 

Very close behind the Tartan 30 is a bit of a rare bird, the 1960's era Galaxy 32 (AKA as the Metal Mast 32 and Paceship 32). These were amazingly advanced boats for their day. Well built and sailed extremely well. If they were more common, they would be number 1 on my list. 

Other favorites of mine are the the Bristol 33/34. I saw one go for around $15K last year and that would have made a great platform for some serious cruising. The Pearson 10M (33) were a nice design but not as robust as some of these. One of the least known really neat boats is the mid-1970's era, Ray Richards designed Cheoy Lee 32 sloop/cutter. All you just need to do is find one with an aluminum spar and the teak decks removed. Another design which is often overlooked is the Pearson 323. 

If you have your heart set on going 'old school' I like C&C Corvette, followed by the Bristol 29/30 (not to be mistaken for the 29.9), (1960's era) Morgan 34, the Tartan 27 and then there is the Seawind (mk1) if going painfully slow isn't too painful.

Anyway, these are a few quick suggestions but they might move you in a direction that has not been mentioned...... 

Jeff


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

When you actually get around to shopping for this dream boat, you may find that your options are a bit limited. You will only be able to shop in a certain geographic area, for a boat that is in reasonable shape, but not too expensive, etc. It will help a lot if you have a fair number of boats you would consider (and learn why some others wouldn't be such a good idea). 

Find a cheap(ish) boat. Just keep it coastal, and pick your weather windows. Save the ocean crossings for another boat.


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## katsailor (Jan 6, 2013)

Look around for a freedom yachts cat ketch or and an offshore 33 cat ketch. both have self tending sails and full keels. You're doing it wrong if you to put your beverage down to tack. The biggest issue people have with them is that they just look wrong with free standig masts and no shrouds or stays.:laugher


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## dogeconomics (Apr 22, 2013)

Jeff_H said:


> First of all, I would suggest that there almost no such thing as a solid 'blue water cruiser' for less that $20,000 ready to go. At best you are looking at compromises.
> ....
> 
> Anyway, these are a few quick suggestions but they might move you in a direction that has not been mentioned......
> ...


Jeff_H,

I've read many of your posts and am thusly grateful for your response. The Tartan 30 is on this list because of one of your previous posts... possibly comparing it to a Vanguard. And the more input I get, the more I realize the term 'bluewater' doesn't really apply to what I'm looking for.

I'll start some research on the ones you pointed out. The Cheoy Lees are definitely good looking boats. The teak decks made me a bit nervous, but I'll watch for those with them removed. Family members are BIG Bristol fans and owners, so my respect for them wars with my desire to be a rebel and sail something different. 

Again, thank you for taking the time to post here!

Chris


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## Shinook (Jul 13, 2012)

Might also check out John Vigor's book, 20 Small Sailboats <rest of title here>


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## juggleandhope (Jun 4, 2012)

dogeconomics said:


> Tartan 30


Two Tartan 30s were for sale/sail in NYC last summer for around 5K - one of them in better shape than the other but neither in bad shape. Both felt "huge" to me on the inside - made the little int'l folkboat i ended up choosing instead feel reassuringly simple.

Good luck.


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## Unkle Toad (May 11, 2013)

3 weeks how has the Search been going. any new news?


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## dogeconomics (Apr 22, 2013)

Unkle Toad said:


> 3 weeks how has the Search been going. any new news?


Going to be looking at a Tartan 30, 34, and a C&C Corvette in a couple weeks. I'm in no hurry to make a move (unless the perfect one comes along), as this degree will now take another year with how I'm writing my thesis. :/ But next summer I set cast off for the Caribbean, so help me. In the mean time, sailing my little Puffer as much as possible.



juggleandhope said:


> Two Tartan 30s were for sale/sail in NYC last summer for around 5K - one of them in better shape than the other but neither in bad shape. Both felt "huge" to me on the inside - made the little int'l folkboat i ended up choosing instead feel reassuringly simple.
> 
> Good luck.


Yeah I really like the simplicity of the Corvette. There was one in solid condition just down the road, the dealer had crazy deals to clear his lot for a repaving. Unfortunately she was gone before I could even visit.


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## sailgrlnh (May 16, 2013)

If you are interested check out the Chuck Paine designed Bahama Sandpiper. We have one of 12 made. It has an 18" draft and a centerboard, a 5000 lb skeg, cutter-rigges and my fiance solo sailed it on the coast of Maine for 20 years. Now we will be parting with it to get a family boat in the 34" range. Let us know.


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## c_witch (Sep 25, 2011)

Hi,

First what do you consider to be a bluewater boat? I'm in the camp that blue water saling is anytime you are more then 24 hours running time from shore. Blue water boats should have minimal cockpits size wise ie deffinately less then 1/4 of overall length. 

I'm looking for a coastal boat that will take me from Nova Scotia to the Caribbean by coast hopping down the eastern seaboard. Being a live aboard then having a decent galley is important to me and not one of those god forsaken things tucked into the port or starboard side of the aft cabin. I like the Irwins and Columbia's for their layout. I also like the late 60's to pre 74 years as the hulls were thick and un cored. I also am looking for a shoal keel or full keel with tiller. Important stuff structural integrity and solid spars. I expect to replace the standing and running rigging as well as the electronics. Most boats I have looked at would also require additional tankage for fuel and water and waste. Something else to consider is opening ports. Many coastals don't really have them or enough and they are expensive to replace. There will only be two of us but we are still looking in the 30 to 35 foot range with at least 6 foot 1 of head room.

So my list:
Columbia
Irwin
Bristol *
Tartan
C&C
Pearson ?
Cal ?

The largest open water passage we ever expect to make would be about 300 nm. And I'm not into racing in the least.

c_witch


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## JimPendoley (Jan 17, 2005)

If you are going to be coastal hopping and want to have a boat that can cruise longer distances on the cheap, a Vanguard that has been well maintained would be a good solution. Felicity is for sale in Falmouth Maine (no interest or relation) for $11,500 asking and looks to be in great shape with a rebuilt A4. They come in a standard or dinette layout, Felicity is a dinette. Boats are bullet proof older hulls. The dinette is great for living aboard, more galley space then the Bristol 35.5 I'm looking at.

Boat sails well for its age and type and will handle the bigger stuff easily. Three guys from St Anselms College bought one and did a three year circumnavigation as a graduation present to themselves. I spoke with the captain and he indicated the boat performed very well. I know of several in addition that have done pacific crossings and plenty of trans Atlantic crossings.

6'2" headroom, prettiest lines in the harbor, from the drawing board of Phil Rhodes.
I'm getting close to my time to cruise and if I were going solo, I'd do it on a Vanguard in a heartbeat. Would I like a bigger boat? Maybe a little bigger-for one its comfortable and for two its a squeeze, but the money I save and the simplicity of an easier to handle the design is very attractive. Its not camping, I have hot water, rerfigeration and an oven. The interior is plain, but a lot of the upgrades I have done have been mostly cosmetic and mine is becoming pretty darned yachty down below.
Guess I am biased, but seems to fit your budget-would that I had the clarity when I was your age to chuck it all and go on a journey.


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## sailortrash (Sep 1, 2012)

Welcome to sail net. Stay out of bluewater for now. Get something that can cross from ft. laud to the carib for now. 20k for a boat ready for true blue water is a lot to ask. The east coast has a lot to offer for a beginner and experienced alike. Go cheap gain exp and get a blue water for the next one. Hunter morgan columbia coronado benateau jeanneau all great names that there are plenty of for great prices. know what the book value is and what the market value is. There is a big difference in most cases.
good luck
Jared


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Another economist here. I'm going to suggest a modification to your plan. Why not start more slowly?

Your boat is going to eat your entire budget. Even if you can find a boat in your price range that will get you to the Caribbean, how are you going to eat on your trip? Pay for repairs? Budget for emergencies? 

You should also consider your job search. I assume you are looking for degree-related employment. The market for MAs in economics is very thin. Particularly with the states in a budget crisis for the foreseeable future, it may take some time to find a job. I hire new MAs, and most of my candidates haven't completed their degrees yet. You should be budgeting some time and money to find a job.

Why not offer to crew on a longer trip while working on your thesis? That will give you a taste of cruising while minimizing cost and time away from starting your search. You'll also not be single-handing all the way to the Caribbean (if I understand your plans correctly). 

The big markets for your degree are in DC and NYC. Both excellent sailing areas. Lots of people work a few years, save up a reasonable budget for a long trip, and take off. 

Good luck, whatever you decide to do,

E.


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