# Life vests for the well-endowed



## Brigala

I think the above says it all!

I'm just starting to think about outfitting our "new" sailboat with safety gear. Got a life vest for the tot already, thanks to advice from Sailnet folks. I'm not in a huge hurry since our "new" boat is in the "not sure whether to fix it or sell it for scrap to free up the trailer" category; probably I won't really be sailing until next summer and I can make do with a standard life vest until then when I'm tagging along on friends' boats.

I'm not _quite_ so much of a freak of nature that I can't wear a regular vest. But they're not terribly comfortable and before I start shopping I was wondering whether there were brands of vests I should be looking at first. I'd like something comfortable enough to wear pretty much all the time. I think I'd like a Type III and a Type II to switch out as conditions warrant. To give an idea of sizing... let's just say that when I'm sure I'm done having kids I'm going in for back-saving surgery to go several sizes _down_ to a D or DD. (Had a friend whose 'girls' grew back with her next pregnancy and don't want to risk having to do it twice).

On the other hand, maybe they'll serve just fine as floatation devices without a vest. 

Also, last time I took the tot out on a boat I found I had to remove my life vest entirely in order to nurse. Has anybody here ever had a nurseling on a boat? And did you find any life vests that you could just open and not have to totally remove? It's not a huge issue now since Tot is almost done with her nursing days, but I may have one more before my childbearing years are over.


----------



## AirborneSF

Other than a 'Mustang' auto inflatable, I don't know what else you could try.


----------



## Donna_F

Brigala said:


> On the other hand, maybe they'll serve just fine as floatation devices without a vest.


huh.

Try these instead: Mustang M.I.T. 22 Inflatable PFD

A bunch of manufacturers make them and I imagine (being childless) that you can easily push it aside without taking it off to nurse.

You may also come across flotation devices in a fanny pack looking set up but I don't really recommend them as you have to keep your wits about you to actually use them in an emergency.

Good luck!


----------



## Brigala

I definitely don't want some fanny-pack kind of thing. I'm a pretty good swimmer and if I have my wits about me well enough to use one I can probably just swim. I'm more concerned with something that will help me survive in less than ideal circumstances. 

Being able to nurse in a vest is not a high priority at this point; it's only a theoretical concern anyway. I'm a lot more interested in just something that would be comfortable.

I'd rather avoid an inflatable if I can, but it's definitely an option. Thanks for the suggestions!


----------



## Donna_F

Brigala said:


> I definitely don't want some fanny-pack kind of thing.


I don't care for them either.



Brigala said:


> I'm a pretty good swimmer and if I have my wits about me well enough to use one I can probably just swim.


In most cases, this isn't a good idea. If you find something is wrong with your boat and you end up overboard, it's easier for the rescuers to see your boat rather than a teeny head bobbing in the water so stay with it unless it's on fire (even then it'll more than likely just burn to the waterline so at least stay where you won't be in danger if there's an explosion). Also, you lose energy that your body needs to stay warm if you start swimming.

I was a water rescue instructor in a past life and learned quite quickly that unless you are an Olympic-caliber swimmer, you are NOT a "strong" swimmer, especially in adverse conditions. Now, if you do have a medal, forget I mentioned it.  Many a student had discovered the difference between what their abilities were in their minds and what they could actually accomplish given a dangerous situation.



Brigala said:


> I'd rather avoid an inflatable if I can, but it's definitely an option. Thanks for the suggestions!


Someone else may, but I don't know of any better option on the market right now.


----------



## Brigala

DRFerron said:


> In most cases, this isn't a good idea. If you find something is wrong with your boat and you end up overboard,


That's not what I meant... what I mean is that the stupid fanny pack thing seems like of very limited usefulness. I want a "real" life vest because the whole point of a flotation device is to keep you alive long enough to be rescued in the event of something going wrong. In a situation where all I need is a little extra buoyancy around my waist... well... I have plenty of natural buoyancy anyway so I don't think a mere flotation belt will improve the situation a lot.

I'm quite aware that I'm not a strong enough swimmer to save my hide (let alone help protect my kids or anybody else I'm responsible for) in case of a true emergency.


----------



## Brigala

Oh yeah, and even an olympic medalist can get a bad knock on the head or a lung full of water and drown... so if they're on my boat they get to wear life vests too.


----------



## bljones

Inflatable.
I don't know any sailors who wear a vest by choice over an inflatable. Especially on a hot day, an inflatable is the way to go.

and just because SOMEBODY has to do it...

:worthless:


----------



## Brigala

LOL!

I was afraid of that.


----------



## AirborneSF

I still think the auto inflatables would be your best bet, they are small, but float a large amount of weight. (I hope I'm NOT in trouble for saying it that way). My wife really likes the way it fits, and she isn't a little girl anymore,(except to me!).


----------



## Brigala

Ok, I'll look further into it. I get nervous about anything that might stop working if it comes near something sharp, though.

And, since bljones had the audacity to ask... and honestly a pic might not be a bad idea for giving you an idea of what kind of "accommodation" I need... and because this pic has my adorable daughter in it and I can hardly pass up an opportunity to brag on her...










Taken in Hawaii about a year ago.  Maybe next time we go we can sail there and avoid the hassle of airport security.


----------



## hellosailor

A TypeII vest is a semi-mythological creature, no one has ever seen one in real life.

A Type3 is going to be uncomfortable even if you're not, ah, chesty. For comfort people buy Type5 inflateable PFDs, preferably an auto-inflate with built in harness and crotch strap. You can wear it "slack" as long as you've take the important step of actually inflating it (by mouth is OK) in the water to make sure it will fit right when it IS inflated.

And FWIW, an inflateable shouldn't be worn unless you're willing to CHECK IT from time to time, to make sure it holds air.

Yes, every brand and model fits a bit differently, but AFAIK none of them come in "portly" or "chesty". Although, maybe that's a sales opportunity for Maidenform.


----------



## Murph

Holy ****e that was funny, Jones.....I have nothing productive to add to this thread


----------



## Stumble

Type II are close to the most uncomfortable life jackets you can buy. They are the cheap ones sold by west marine to meet the USCG carriage requirement of one for everyone aboard. Don't even think about them for general wear, they are terrible, and manufacturers have no intention of making them better since they do what they are supposed to.... Live in a bag somewhere to show off when the Coast Guard show up.

Type I is like II but actually more comfortable. Though they are full jackets intended for off shore use. Again, don't think about them for general wear, they are hot, heavy, and not really designed to be comfortable.

For always on, the only realistic option is an inflatable. I appreciate the concern about sharp objects, but the covers, and bladders on the USCG approved list are very durable. I have one that is now about 8 years old, and still passed certification this year with no maintenance done.

Take a look for type V inflatables with type II performance (type II must roll you over on your back if you are unconscious). Ideally spend the extra to get a true type II inflatable that doesn't have to be worn to meet carriage requirements, since that way you have an extra life jacket on board. 

As for manufacturer... I like the Mustang or Musto brands, but they are both heavy off shore types. For more moderate sailing, I would just go try as many on as you can. There is a lot of variation between manufacturers, and models.


----------



## eherlihy

BL - I was thinkin' the same thing...

Brigalia - +2 for having the guts to post the pic 

If you got the bucks, these are great;









And they're available in gurly colors too;









See here; Sailing


----------



## Brigala

eherlihy said:


> Brigalia - +2 for having the guts to post the pic


Hah! I thought about it for quite a while. But, you know... that's what I look like. Why should I be ashamed of it? Frustrated that I can't find clothes that fit well? Yeah. Tired of it hurting my back? Hell yeah. But I figure you all are way more mature than the kids who made fun of me in the 6th grade. 

Money's not a huge concern. I mean, it's always a factor, since my herb garden only grows basil and not money. But I'm not one to skimp on stuff that is there to save your life. You'd probably all choke if you knew how much I'd spent on car seats for my daughter in the 2 short years she's been alive...  ... and not because more expensive directly = safer, but because a safety device is only as safe as it is used consistently and correctly. Something that doesn't fit just right tempts you to get lazy and maybe not wear it or not secure it properly... the principle applies equally to car seats or life jackets as near as I can tell.

My husband is one of those people who believes he's invincible and shouldn't have to wear a life vest. I hope one of those inflatables will convince him otherwise. If it takes $300 to reduce the chance that I get to live as a widow, I'm all for it.


----------



## bljones

Brigala said:


> But I figure you all are way more mature than the kids who made fun of me in the 6th grade.
> 
> .


Oh, you poor trusting soul.
You aren't the first person to underestimate us.


----------



## Brigala

Meh. The same picture is on Facebook for all to see. And I've developed a pretty thick skin over the years.


----------



## Brigala

eherlihy said:


> If you got the bucks, these are great;


What is the difference between those ones and these ones:
MD2087 M.I.T. Membrane Inflatable Technology™ 

I can't figure out any significant difference between the Deluxe one you linked and this one (other than the available colors - and I just want something bright and visible). But this one is about $60 less.


----------



## Geoff54

Brigala said:


> What is the difference between those ones and these ones:
> MD2087 M.I.T. Membrane Inflatable Technology™
> 
> I can't figure out any significant difference between the Deluxe one you linked and this one (other than the available colors - and I just want something bright and visible). But this one is about $60 less.


At a quick glance, the major difference is that the more expensive one has a hydrostatic trigger, which uses water pressure rather than inflating when it gets wet, which reduces the chance of it inflating accidentally. I didn't look very closely but the more expensive ones tend to have extras like soft collars and inspection windows to check on the firing mechanism.

Don't worry about the color (from a visibility point of view), they open up when inflated and are then all brightly colored, usually yellow.

Shop around for the best deal you can get. Depending on your level safety consciousness and where you use it, a crotch strap and a spray hood are nice features to have (they all come with a light and whistle, right?). Also I found some more comfortable than others, although I am a slightly different shape.

BTW, I got mine in Europe because, for some reason, inflatable lifejackets are (or at least were) less expensive there. Don't know why.


----------



## Geoff54

You'll sometimes see hydrostatic mechanisms referred to as "Hammer" who make and hold the patent for arguably the best one - at least that's what they will tell you.


----------



## Argyle38

The PFD pictured doesn't have D-ring harness attachments. I would recommend getting the ones with the D-ring, that way you can attach yourself to a tether which is then attached to the boat.

Deluxe Inflatable PFD with Hydrostatic Inflator Technology (HIT) and Sailing Harness MD3184

As far as a tether goes, it is safer to get one with a snap shackle that can be released under load (in case the boat goes down or flips over) and a fail-safe snap hook. Personally, I prefer the Kong style since the snap hook is easy to operate.

Kong Single Retractable Tether

First rule - stay on the boat.


----------



## eherlihy

This is the one that I have;









But unless you need the "D" rings, and have the tether, and jack lines, you are wasing an extra $60... or so.


----------



## PorFin

eherlihy said:


> But unless you need the "D" rings, and have the tether, and jack lines, you are wasing an extra $60... or so.


OTOH, you may want to outfit your boat with tethers and jacklines in the future so the extra money today may be well spent in the long run -- just food for thought.


----------



## bljones

The d-rings could also make handy footrests for nursing infants.


----------



## Brigala

Good tips, guys, thanks!

The boat we "have" is still under discernment whether it's going to the scrap yard or getting refurbished. I can certainly add tethers to the list of things we need to install before we take it out.


----------



## Bilgewater

bljones said:


> The d-rings could also make handy footrests for nursing infants.


That's funny.:laugher :laugher


----------



## PaulinVictoria

Go below before laying out the food so to speak. Won't need a vest on then 
FWIW, my wife has the pink Mustang pictured above and she floats face up in a swimming pool.


----------



## ottos

Brigala said:


> On the other hand, maybe they'll serve just fine as floatation devices without a vest.


There's a reason some early PFD's were called Mae West's 

My wife has similar challenges, and is comfortable with her Mustang inflatable. We got the rings for tethering, it just made sense, even if we didn't need them at the moment.

Previously, when we got her a vest for the Hobie, we went to a kayak outfitter who suggested the models that would work best for her. Of course those were non-inflatable.

Good luck!

.


----------



## Melrna

I believe Practical Sailor did a piece while back ago on this subject for us gals. This is my next one when my Mustang wears out. 
Spinlock vest. 
SPINLOCK Auto-Inflating PFD Deck Vest at West Marine


----------



## blt2ski

Daughter whom is a couple of three double letter sized bigger than you reduction size mentioned, uses a 3184 mustang with out issues. Wife is about the size you mention also no issues with the 3184 or the non hydro version which we have both of. IIRC a 3084 or 308x anyhow.

Reality is, head to the local chandlery, with ALL you clothes you may wear, start trying them on. see which one is nice with the fat/wet gear on, then try it tightened down when you have on just summer clothes, ie a tshirt! When you can move around in all the varieties of clothing etc you wear, you found the right one for you!

All of our vests have the D rings. I also have the ability to tether folks in rougher conditions. Daughter does bow when racing, for her sometimes, knowing she will not fall off, allows her to relax a bit more in rougher conditions, does a better/faster job up there. Some of the others that help are the same. Not that they use the tether as a crutch per say, it does relax you to some degree that you will not go too far away from the boat if you lose it!

Marty


----------



## arknoah

blt2ski said:


> Reality is, head to the local chandlery, with ALL you clothes you may wear, start trying them on. see which one is nice with the fat/wet gear on, then try it tightened down when you have on just summer clothes, ie a tshirt! When you can move around in all the varieties of clothing etc you wear, you found the right one for you!
> 
> All of our vests have the D rings. I also have the ability to tether folks in rougher conditions. Daughter does bow when racing, for her sometimes, knowing she will not fall off, allows her to relax a bit more in rougher conditions, does a better/faster job up there. Some of the others that help are the same. Not that they use the tether as a crutch per say, it does relax you to some degree that you will not go too far away from the boat if you lose it!
> 
> Marty


Thanks to you for this simple approach and to Brigala for bringing up this topic. I will follow this advice to get a more comfortable pfd for my wife.


----------



## MarkSF

Brigala said:


> My husband is one of those people who believes he's invincible and shouldn't have to wear a life vest. I hope one of those inflatables will convince him otherwise. If it takes $300 to reduce the chance that I get to live as a widow, I'm all for it.


Tell him this (No offense to your husband, because many make the same mistake, but his view is based on a complete failure to understand the dangers)

Not sure where you sail but in cold water (like the coastal waters around here) you have 10-20 minutes where your muscles will work, then they stop working due to the cold and then you are vulnerable to drowning due to wave action. You can't wave or shout for help.

In an MOB situation you are likely to be dealing with a crew member who can't get themselves back into the boat and will need to be hoisted. This all takes time.

Actual death from hypothermia doesn't happen for an hour or so, so a life jacket extends your life expectancy from 20 minutes to an hour or more, and lets face it, that 20 to 60 minutes window is when help from USCG or whoever is likely to arrive.

I know of 3 people who fell in the water in local MARINAS in the last 18 months. One died of a heart attack. A second drowned. The third was rescued and survived but after 10 minutes in the water reported that he was too weak to shout for help.

I know of a skipper who lost a crew member overboard who was then rescued by USCG after 30 minutes. The crew member spent two weeks in hospital recovering.


----------



## hellosailor

Mark, some long time ago we were running water samples and bottom profiles in 34F water and a discussion came up about whether to wear life jackets over or under the parkas, and whether it would make any difference anyhow since the ship we were on couldn't round up and come back for you before your lungs froze up in any case.

The wise old man in charge of things said just wear the life jackets, with whatever has the highest visibility on the outside. Not because it will make any difference in how long you live, but simply as a courtesy to those poor SOBs conducting the SAR operations, so they can find your body quickly and go back home again.

The logic still works for me. Someone thinks they're invulnerable, fine, no argument here. But they'd damn well better have the courtesy to make life easier on the SAR guys.

Oddly enough, when they hear "the only difference is how quickly we can recover your body" they start to question the invulnerability aspect as well.


----------



## Mobnets

Check these out:

Stohlquist Women's Cruiser Kayak Lifejacket - The Stohlquist Cruiser lifejacket is perfect for the female sea kayaker and sit-on-top paddler. The Cruiser PFD is shaped for women, with a smaller cut, shortened torso and supportive inner cups. The back side is half flotation/half cool mesh to fit comfortably above the seat backs found in many of today's recreational and touring boats. The internal front foam is hand-sculpted for perfectly shaped fit. Neoprene padded shoulders and lower back waist band are easy on the skin when worn with a swim suit, and the Cinch harness makes for zero ride up. A wide range of adjustability makes for the perfect fit. Zippered front pockets keep small essential close at hand, and 3M reflective piping front and make increase visibility in low-light situations.
Sizing:
Size	XS/S	M/L	XXL
Bust	28 - 34"	34 - 40"	40 - 46"

They have other models anatomically designed for women. My wife has one . . . bought it at Strictly Sail four years ago. Most comfortable non-inflatable life vest she's ever worn. I have a Stohlquist men's model . . . awesome!

Mobnets
1973 Paceship Chance 32/28 "WESTWIND"


----------



## hellosailor

I would suggest that a proper "kayak" pfd, which is going to be cut higher above the waist in order to allow you to sit in a kayak, is the wrong thing to wear sailing.

In order to fit in a kayak, with a spray skirt, the pfd would have to be cut higher, the same way that a flyfishing vest is cut high to keep the bottom out of the water when you are wading.

And that's fine, but when the bouyant material is higher up on your body, you float lower in the water. For open water use, you want the bouyancy down as low as possible, so it lifts you as high as possible. Which is one reason a crotch strap should be used, to keep the bouyancy low on your body.


----------



## Brigala

MarkSF: Yeah, I've told him all that. Actually, he may be more willing to wear the vest because we'll be sailing in cold waters. He's not stupid. Just... set in his ways. And 90% of his boating experience has been in California or Hawaii where they simply don't have the icy conditions we have up here. Plus, we have a toddler now and that may change things a bit, giving him a bigger reason to stay alive longer. The inflatable vest may be enough to tip the scales also, because he should be able to wear it without it restricting his movement.


----------



## Mobnets

HELLOSAILER:
I agree, a kayak vest is not best for sailing . . . it was just the model that came up on google first with a good description of the way they approach the design of women's vests. Sorry for the confusion . . . I knew what I was thinking but didn't make myself clear. Like I said, they make lots of models. My wife has one designed for sailing. So do I! I just couldn't remember the exact name of the model and I'm 3 hours from the boat today so couldn't check. 

Mobnets
1973 Paceship Chance 32/28 "Westwind"


----------



## Brigala

It looks like most of their jackets are designed for Kayaking, though. And, from the company website:



> Women's model has built-in cups to fit sizes B to D.


... which falls several cup sizes short for me. It's a good suggestion, though, and I think maybe their multi-sport vest is less kayak-specific.


----------



## Squidd

This thread needs more pics...

I mean in the interest of safety....


----------



## Brigala

Hah! Someone else's turn to post pics.


----------



## Squidd

Hey... Peoples lives are at stake here.. 

This is relevent stuff

Important to the content and continuity of the discussion.. 

We need to be able to grasp the enormity of the situation.


----------



## MarkSF

and so it begins


----------



## Geoff54

hellosailor said:


> and a discussion came up about whether to wear life jackets over or under the parkas, and whether it would make any difference anyhow since the ship we were on couldn't round up and come back for you before your lungs froze up in any case.
> 
> The wise old man in charge of things said just wear the life jackets, with whatever has the highest visibility on the outside.


I realize that you are referring to a life jacket with permanent floatation but it raises an important point. NEVER wear anything over an inflatable life jacket - unless you like the idea of cracked ribs when it inflates, that is. The stronger and closer fitting the material, the greater the risk.

I know this is a little late - I'm just catching up.


----------



## rightbrainer

I'd check out some of the neoprene wake boarding vests for women. You might also look at kayaking vests. They're cut differently and might work.
2011 HO Womens Form Fit Vest


----------



## arknoah

Brigala,

Check this out from West Marine:

Hot Days - Hot Deals - Safety - Life Jackets - Sailing Offshore Inflatable Life Jackets at West Marine

I just got one for my wife last week (since she used mine last week ans decided she loved it) and I am sure it will be a great investment!

Good luck!


----------



## Brigala

Thank you for the tip! That looks like a pretty decent price. How does this compare to the Mustang brand ones? Is it worth the extra $$ to get a Mustang?

I think I'm going to need one for me and one for my husband. I had a nephew drown this week on the same river where we'll be sailing, and I'm not above using that as leverage to insist that my husband wear a life jacket whether he thinks "conditions warrant" or not. And I know it will be an uphill battle unless I can find him something that he doesn't feel impedes his movement and activity. So an inflatable is probably it. The Mustang ones I'm looking at are this one: HIT and this one: Deluxe Inflatable PFD (Automatic with Sailing Harness) MD3084 . But if the West Marine one is about as good, it would save a fair amount of money. Especially if we buy two. Or four (I might want some for the boys, too).


----------



## hellosailor

Brigalam
, besides the reviews you really need to try them on and compare the fit, neck chafe, etc.


----------



## arknoah

Brigala said:


> Thank you for the tip! That looks like a pretty decent price. How does this compare to the Mustang brand ones? Is it worth the extra $$ to get a Mustang?
> 
> I think I'm going to need one for me and one for my husband. I had a nephew drown this week on the same river where we'll be sailing, and I'm not above using that as leverage to insist that my husband wear a life jacket whether he thinks "conditions warrant" or not. And I know it will be an uphill battle unless I can find him something that he doesn't feel impedes his movement and activity. So an inflatable is probably it. The Mustang ones I'm looking at are this one: HIT and this one: Deluxe Inflatable PFD (Automatic with Sailing Harness) MD3084 . But if the West Marine one is about as good, it would save a fair amount of money. Especially if we buy two. Or four (I might want some for the boys, too).


I wish I was qualified to give you more specific comparisons on the items, though I am pretty comfortable with the general reputation of West Marine. And I agree with you on getting your husband to wear one of these. I honestly forget I have it on after only a few minutes. And while I agree that it is best to try them on, you could always return it if you don't like the feel of it.

(I learned that from my wife who is not only a power shopper, but also a power returner!) :laugher


----------



## dnf777

Never had that problem. All my life-vests go above the belt.


----------



## blt2ski

Brigala,

Go to the portland WM, they have a pretty good selcition of PFD's, or did the last time I was in there a week or two ago. As I said before, bring a set of warm clothes, ie tops when it is 80+F out, and something you would wear when it is 35F and attempting to snow, and blowing 30+ mph! ie fat clothes. If it fits in the store, can be adjusted etc, great. 

My daughter has the WM yellow offshore pfd made by mustang, I believe it is a 3084 equal, she is GG if that helps, and has no issues wearing this one, a 3084 I have for my wife etc.

Marty


----------



## Brigala

So the West Marine lifejackets are made by Mustang? Or some of them are?


----------



## blt2ski

"SOME" of the WM inflatables are made by mustang. AN issue with WM branded pfd's, depending upon the model, is if you blow up the air tank, etc, you may not find a replacement at any ol chandlery you have to inhabit. Where as with a mustang or other, you "may" be more inclined to find replacement parts. 

Not sure about the one you are looking at. I would be inclined to ask at the store whom the manufacture is. I am recalling one other manufacture along with the spinlock version mentioned earlier in this thread too. Sterns?!?! I have a WM I believe made by sterns, not the most comfortable vs the mustang equals. 

At the end of the day tho, if you are not wearing one, because it is uncomfortable, then that is not a good thing! especially if you drown! so the right one for the task/use at hand at the end of the day is what you want. I know inflatables are not recomended for kayaking, windsurfing etc where getting dunked is pretty common, but from a sailing powerboat use......not as common, and many like wearing them. 

Marty


----------



## Brigala

Ok, so that helps a lot. You're right, I'll visit the Portland WM store and talk to them. I totally get what you're saying about comfort being #1, because a life vest you aren't wearing doesn't do you any good. It's the same thing we tell people with car seats - the right car seat is the one that fits your child and your car and you'll use correctly _every time_. At the end of the day, a safety device has to be in use (and used correctly) in order to save your life.

How often do these things come on sale? If "end of season" is a good time to buy, that's awesome, but I'm also not in any rush since our boat is not in sailable condition yet. I'm hoping it will be ready next summer.


----------



## blt2ski

The PFD's that arknoah linked, seem to go on sale what I would call regularly, ie every other month or so. The Mustangs will/might be once or twice a year. A birdie is going off in my brain that they were on sale the first couple or last two weeks in July also. May have been a 5 day 4th of july sale too.

The WM version I got my kids a few years back were on sale around nov/dec iirc. As I got them for xmas presents. Either that or the mgr at the local store gave me a small % off for buying a number of them in Dec. This store was pretty small in comparison to portland, and since closed when the bigger super store in seattle opened. 

Some of the cost difference may also be in the types of fittings, one is SS vs a chrome bronze metal, or plastic vs SS. heavier webbing etc. For general sailing the coastal version may be fine. If offshore or in heavier weather etc, the higher cost offshore version may be prefered. The coastal may also not have an option for a crotch strap, where as offshore versions usually have this option. Then again, if out on the columbia during a spring run when the water is high and moving, a crotch strap if you go over to make sure the pfd stays on you is on may be a good thing.

Maryt


----------



## dongreerps

Brigala:
Looking ahead to the future: Please go see your Plastic Surgeon now to review your options. Many health insurance companies now are very strict on coverage for a reduction. You may be required to document efforts you have made to improve your back pain, including weight loss, PT, etc. So document you greatest weight, and the efforts you have made.
In my 30+ years of surgery reduction was the 2nd most frequent procedure done, and had the highest % of grateful patients. Redoes, even after subsequent pregnancy were rare.


----------



## Brigala

Thank you Maryt. That helps quite a bit.

Thank you also dongreerps. I'll talk to my doctor next time I go in and start leaving a paper trail. I certainly have struggled with back issues my whole life, and that's my biggest concern. Trouble finding clothes and other cosmetic concerns are certainly secondary. We are hoping to have another baby in about a year, and since I am a hippy and prefer to nurse for about two years (my almost 2 year old just self-weaned a couple of weeks ago) that puts us at least 3 years out before I would even start considering a reduction. If there's a next baby on our horizon it will be our last. I'm not getting any younger.


----------



## hellosailor

Brands: well, PS did a review of vests some years ago and models may have changed. But IIRC they mentioned the Crewfit (not USCG certified, not very actively sold on the US market, a UK brand) as being one of the few that will turn you face up in the water. If you can find that review it might be worth the time spent hunting it down.

And again regarding fit, if you use a crotch strap (which more folks are calling _necessary not optional_ every year) you can get a large pfd that is loose around your chest--and it will still stay in place because the strap holds it down.

If I had a spouse I wouldn't argue with her about wearing a PFD (at least, about wearing it solo, or shorthanded, or on cold water, heavy wx, etc.) I'd just get a two million dollar life insurance policy and tell them "sign here please". And when they say what's this all about, I'd say that since they won't wear a PFD....at least I want something back from that selfish choice. No, wait, make it three mil, you've got kids.


----------



## Brigala

My husband has a reasonable (not million though) life insurance policy that will take care of us if he falls off the boat and drowns, however I'd much rather have him around. I talked to him and he grudgingly agreed to wear a life jacket if I can find him one that is comfortable. Everyone I know who is into sailing wears life jackets, so that helps. I think he's just old school. But he does want to be around to see our kids grow up. 

I like the idea of a crotch strap, especially after watching a couple of you tube videos demonstrating the inflatable vests. It seems like a crotch strap would help a LOT in holding the vest in place so it's more likely to turn you face up.

I'm looking for a "Type II Performance" vest, and supposedly that should turn the wearer face up. The under-$100 inflatables all say they have "Type III" performance and I think if I'm going to wear a vest I might as well have one that still has a good chance of saving my life even if I'm incapable of swimming.


----------



## hellosailor

I used to sail with someone that had young children and we talked about how to get the kids to wear life vests without complaining. Well, kids want to do what the grown-ups do, so we made the point of putting on the vests before we got on the launch or dock, and keeping them on until we were on dryland again or below deck.

You might want to cue in hubby, you've got a kid who will need to be wearing a PFD in a year or two. Let them start seeing it now, let them know it is normal and expected, and you'll have a much safer child next year. I think hubby will see the logic in that.

Comfort, again, you need to try them on, each fits differently. My ancient Crewfit rubs the back of my neck (if bare) but a piece of silk and some velco took care of that. Nice and comfy now. Crewfit actually toggles into the Henry Lloyd jackets, to hold it in place. I don't know if others do. And Crewfit makes extra bouyancy models.

I think Mustang got written up for having a more contoured more comfortable neck, but you really have to weigh all these things.

And then whatever you do get? Get one or two repack kits at the same time. If your vest is used, that way you can re-arm it afterwards. If you want to splurge, jump in the waster with it and see how it inflates, get used to the idea. You'll need to do that to really adjust the straps for proper position in the water. You don't need to waste an inflator on that though, you can usually remove that and just manually inflate.


----------



## Brigala

Yeah, I was thinking that if we're all comfortable in the same brand vest, it would be best so we could keep the same re-arm kits and use them for whatever vest we have if anybody falls in. A re-arm kit seems like a good thing to just keep on the boat. Good tip to inflate the vest in order to properly adjust the straps. Do they all have a manual blow-up option?


----------



## blt2ski

Most if not all inflatables have a blow up option via your mouth. This way if the cannister does not inflate it all the way, you can, or if in the water a big, it starts to deflate say due to colder water, you can increase it. 

Having all of the same pfds is good as you say, so you only need one or two rearm kits on the boat at any given time. Especially since they run about $30-50 per kit! depending upon the type etc.

Marty


----------



## SloopJonB

I'm a big believer in the KISS principle but I think inflatables are the only way to go for one simple reason - they get WORN. 

When you lose your footing or get hit by something and go over the side, a vest in a cockpit locker won't do any good at all.


----------



## propellanttech

One thing that is not mentioned on this thread which I had an issue with was the inflation initiation difference.

Some inflatables will inflate if you are hit by a wave from the side. When the water hits you, you will be startled when the vest inflates. This does depend on where you plan to sail of course.

If your going to the open water of the gulf, Caribbean sea, or ocean, you will definitely want to consider a hydrostatic firing device like the expensive Mustang offers. It's won't fire unless you go under water. The system requires the outside pressure of the water to be high before setting off the inflation. Some thing like 8 inches under water.

After a few times of having a wave come over the bow and set off your cheaper inflatable, you will be quite aggravated, and probably order the Mustang anyway.

It was one of the first things I considered. I will be buying the Mustangs. 

This post is unfortunately irrelevant to fit.

James L


----------



## Brigala

It's still a really good consideration. I am kind of leaning toward the Mustang or something equivalent for that reason.


----------



## chucklesR

One thing I think is worthwhile adding to this thread (obviously I have no input on fit or style for Brigala) is that any vest you pick out should be put on - and then at the very first safe opportunity you should jump over the side and test it.

Recharging is a couple bucks, knowing how it works, fits and feels during the time you count on it most is priceless, and you can then recharge/reload it. 
I practice what I preach, at least once a year I put on an auto-inflate and jump in.


----------



## propellanttech

Ouch,

With a mustang it's a little more than a few bucks (about $75.00 the last time I checked).

Still a very good idea for a person to know they can rely on the equipment they are using.

Most people test them out when time to recharge. For a HIT Mustang, I think that is every 5 years.

James L


----------



## chucklesR

Cost me 16 bucks for recharge kit on my WM's - both the co2's and a salt tablet's. 
I even let kids wear them and take the leap. 

If I get enough water over the bow of my (previously) Gemini catamaran, or (now) Irwin 38 center cockpit to set it off accidently - well I supposed I deserve the surprise.


----------



## propellanttech

chucklesR said:


> Cost me 16 bucks for recharge kit on my WM's - both the co2's and a salt tablet's.
> I even let kids wear them and take the leap.
> 
> If I get enough water over the bow of my (previously) Gemini catamaran, or (now) Irwin 38 center cockpit to set it off accidently - well I supposed I deserve the surprise.


But I put the information out there for people to know. It would be the last thing I would want happening in that kind of weather.

If you a fair weather sailor and can avoid the blow, that is great. I just want to be prepared for what if. 

James L


----------



## UncleJim

hellosailor said:


> Mark, some long time ago we were running water samples and bottom profiles in 34F water and a discussion came up about whether to wear life jackets over or under the parkas, and whether it would make any difference anyhow since the ship we were on couldn't round up and come back for you before your lungs froze up in any case.
> 
> The wise old man in charge of things said just wear the life jackets, with whatever has the highest visibility on the outside. Not because it will make any difference in how long you live, but simply as a courtesy to those poor SOBs conducting the SAR operations, so they can find your body quickly and go back home again.
> 
> The logic still works for me. Someone thinks they're invulnerable, fine, no argument here. But they'd damn well better have the courtesy to make life easier on the SAR guys.
> 
> Oddly enough, when they hear "the only difference is how quickly we can recover your body" they start to question the invulnerability aspect as well.


Well and Wisly said.


----------



## chucklesR

me, I'm still hoping for more pics in this thread.


----------



## propellanttech

chucklesR said:


> me, I'm still hoping for more pics in this thread.


You just want hooter shots........but I see nothing wrong with that. My wife on the other hand......

James L


----------



## arknoah

Brigala said:


> Yeah, I was thinking that if we're all comfortable in the same brand vest, it would be best so we could keep the same re-arm kits and use them for whatever vest we have if anybody falls in.


We didn't do that, and wish we had. Oh well...


----------



## jimgo

So, Brigala, what did you wind up buying?


----------



## mark2gmtrans

You horrible guys should not pick on her, being a well endowed miniature lady who farms sheep is bad enough without you picking on her....


----------



## Yamsailor

pics please.


----------

