# ATN Topclimber



## sv1794 (Mar 28, 2005)

Does anyone have any first hand experience with the ATN TopClimber? I need a way to get to the top of my mast unassisted. Any other suggestions? Before anyone goes on and on about how I should not do this, please don''t waste the time. I have to be able to get to the top by myself, cause that''s the way I sail. Mark Bryant SV Mystic


----------



## eds928gt (Sep 28, 2001)

I''ve used it a few times. As with most thing, it gets easier with practice. I found the climbing easiest with the line angled 20 degrees from vertical, and made taunt. This way, you''ll have enough clearance for your hands as you reach the top of the mast. If you plan to work on the spreaders, you''ll need to keep the line tied off loosely, so that you can swing from one side to the other.

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~


----------



## sidney777 (Jul 14, 2001)

How heavy are you? It looks easy on the video, but I could not do it. A suggestion, look at all of your options, mast mate and others on the internet. If you cannot use ATN I think you can send it back. I did.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Even if you can physically use the Topclimber, you may have trouble. I had no problem ascending to the top of the mast several times, but found that my knees could not take the deep knee bends and would be in real pain for a couple of weeks after the experience. I went through a whole bottle of Ibuprofen, then sold the Topclimber on ebay.


----------



## geohan (Mar 8, 2000)

FWIW We hoist a four part tackle to the truck with the halyard, attach the bosun''s chair and haul away with a five to one mechanical advantage which seems adequate....George


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

For many years, long before the topclimber was ever invented, I have been using mountain climbing gear to go aloft. I haul a single block to the truck, one end of the line attached to a good climbing harness, and the other brought through an ascender which is also attached to my harness through a short lanyard of about thirty inches. In this way, I can easily haul myself up with a 2 to 1 purchase and let go of the line at any time because the ascender holds it. I use a figure 8 device to rappel off from the masthead. 

All the mountain climbing gear is available through ''Snow Leopard'' and is prety cheap. I also use a couple of little tricks to bring me waist high to the masthead for drilling and tapping up there.

Recently, I have bought another block to increase the purchase to 3 to 1. I''m almost 60, after all, and it gets harder to just crank up. I have been using this method now since about 1985.


----------



## Thermal (Aug 21, 2002)

I have also use mountain climbing gear to go up but with a different method: Attach one ascender to your climbing harness, use another ascender with about a 4ft loop of tubular webbing above that one. Step into the loop to lift yourself up some and slide the ascender on the harness up. Slide up the ascender with the loop and repeat - kind of like a moving stair. I used this method for about a year, then got tired of it and just installed some mast steps.


----------



## maxim_rfeld (Jul 4, 2001)

Check this one out. It explains how and why you should use climbing gear on the boat.

http://www.bwsailing.com/PDFs/Aloft_bws0499.pdf

Max.


----------



## jmcornelis (Oct 29, 2004)

FalconEddie:

Can you give more detail? Sketch or photographs? 

Unless one is familiar with this sort of gear it is hard to visualize.

Jake


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I have found through experience that you have to have either a bosuns chair, or a very good harness to prevent your legs from going to sleep. I use an excellent climbing harness with the widest legbands I could find.

I have two climbing ropes. One is about 200'' by 10 MM and the other is 165'' by 12 MM. I went to West Marine and got sail handling blocks by Harken, Lightweight, new style, with ball bearings.

From Snowleopard, I got about ten standard type carabiners, two ascenders, and a figure-eight rappelling device.

I attach one end of the climbing rope to the loop on the front of the climbing harness, then feed it through a sail block, which I connect to the main halyard and hoist to the masthead. I DOUBLE cleat the main halyard and make sure no deck-dancing bozos can accidently trip it free and send me plummeting to the deck.

Then, I attach one of the ascenders to a thirty inch lanyard (I use 5/16 or 3/8 dacron doublebraid with bowlines at each end - it allows me to adjust the length easily) and attach the other end to the same lifting loop on the harness.

From there, all I have to do is grab the line below the ascender with one hand, and the ascender handle with the other, and pull down. It''s a two to one ratio, so I''m only lifting 1/2 my weight. I hold the line down with one hand and quickly slide the ascender up the line with the other. Any time during this, you can let go with both hands and not be able to fall.

If you find the weight too much work to deal with, do what I do now and add another block, making it a three to one lift. It takes a bit longer, but it''s a lot easier.

I leave the other ascender hanging from the lift loop, and clip it on for safety while working. Also, if I need to get all the way to the top of the masthead, I feed the line through the lower ascender and (it''s a little harder, but it works) pull myself up the rest of the way until the blocks are almost together and I can see the top of the mast.

When preparing to come down, you have to keep your wits about you and be careful. I back off a little until I have plenty of line above me and am back on the upper ascender. I then attach the figure eight rappeller below the ascender and clip it into the lift loop. Then I haul myself up a bit and take tension on the figure eight so I can disconnect both ascenders from the line. Rap off and you''re standing on the deck in about five to ten seconds, shaking some bloodflow back into your legs if you''ve been up there for a while.

I always use a bucket, up to a five gallon pail, attached to a hauling line tied to my harness, to haul tools and equipment up. I can tie the bucket off up there and do whatever I have to, even bringing electric drills, dremels, sealer, taps and easy-outs, mastehead lights, Windex''s, or annenometrs. On some jobs, You have to secure the mast with a jib halyard and disconnect the forestay (scary, but easily do-able) and haul up a new on for a new roller furling system and attach it. All in a days work.


----------



## jmcornelis (Oct 29, 2004)

Thanks, FalconEddie. I think I could reconstruct it now - maybe with the help of a climbing gear supply store employee.

Regards, Jake


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Yesterday I had to climb up my mast to free a line in my lower spreader. My neighbor in the next slip had a Top Climber and offered to loan it to me. At first, it was kind of confusing but once I figured it out it worked like a champ and up I went. I''m 61 years old and not what you would call an athelete. Once you get past initially figuring it out, this thing is easy to use and perfect for the guy who has to go it alone.


----------



## Trescool (Jul 7, 2007)

I'm very new to bosun chairs but have the guts to do it. I think the TopClimber looks the best, especially if I have to work on the spreaders.

I'm still confused as to how I get the line to the top of the mast. Do I have to swap a line? Which one? HELP!

Thanks!


----------



## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

*How about MastMate?*

I just picked up a MastMate to address an issue at my masthead. MastMate is a folding mast ladder made from heavy nylon webbing. You haul it up the mast using a halyard and sail slides keep it secure alongside the mast. Super easy and went to the top solo the very first time. Check it out here. A little cheaper than the ATN System and very straightforward operation. Worth a look.


----------



## wumhenry (Mar 29, 2006)

CLucas said:


> I just picked up a MastMate to address an issue at my masthead. MastMate is a folding mast ladder made from heavy nylon webbing. You haul it up the mast using a halyard and sail slides keep it secure alongside the mast. Super easy and went to the top solo the very first time. Check it out here. A little cheaper than the ATN System and very straightforward operation. Worth a look.


Do you happen to know what the max. weight rating is?


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

The problem with mast mate is that you need the sail track available. If the sail gets hung up...you have no way to go up and fix it.


----------



## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

wumhenry said:


> Do you happen to know what the max. weight rating is?


Per the website, the tensile strength of the sewn webbing is 3000 pounds. The webbing is *very* heavy duty and is double thickness under the steps. I am impressed by the quality and have no reservations in trusting it to support me. The manufacturer also recommends their work belt -- similar to a lineman's belt with an integral tool bag. The connection to the sail track keeps it very stable (the sail slides are in no way intended to support your weight, only to keep it stable).


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Trescool said:


> I'm still confused as to how I get the line to the top of the mast. Do I have to swap a line? Which one? HELP!


Haul it up there with a halyard, perhaps? 

Only don't use the halyard's shackle. Shackles _can_ fail! Tie the two lines together. Make sure you know your knots.

Jim


----------



## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> The problem with mast mate is that you need the sail track available. If the sail gets hung up...you have no way to go up and fix it.


Yeah, a potential problem that some have suggested can be dealt with by tying it off at regular intervals to the mast while you are ascending, and untying when descending -- a bit awkward, admittedly. This issue and lots of others are addressed on their website. I can say that this product worked great for me and I was impressed by the quality of workmanship, the ATN Topclimber was another alternative that I looked at, but this looked more stable in that the ladder was stabilzed by being secured the mast. For the record, I'm not affiliated with MastMate... blah, blah, blah...

My two cents.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Actually, you don't need to have it attached to the mainsail track. IT does work better if it is attached to the track, as it sways a lot less, but rock climbers have been using something similar for many years without the need for a mast track.  If you do have to use it without a track, it would be wise to secure the bottom end of the mastmate to prevent it from swinging/swaying.


camaraderie said:


> The problem with mast mate is that you need the sail track available. If the sail gets hung up...you have no way to go up and fix it.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Clucas...I bought my ATN based on the mast mate issue of needing the sail track and my belief that it would be extremely difficult to use the foot loops "freestyle"...but I have NO actual experience with the mast-mate. Have YOU ever gone up the mast without the slides in place with yours? Would be interesting to hear how you made out.


----------



## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> Clucas...I bought my ATN based on the mast mate issue of needing the sail track and my belief that it would be extremely difficult to use the foot loops "freestyle"...but I have NO actual experience with the mast-mate. Have YOU ever gone up the mast without the slides in place with yours? Would be interesting to hear how you made out.


I have not gone up without the slides in the tracks and will say that the stability of having it integral with the mast (via the slides) was a strong selling point for me. It is suggested by the manufacturer (and my first hand experience confirms this) that when ascending, you hold onto the mast and not the MastMate steps above you. If you don't have a sail track available, it makes a lot of sense (conceptually anyway...) to a) rig a downhaul and b) tie loops of line around the mast say, every other steps when ascending to secure it to the mast. When descending, just cut/unfasten the loops as you pass them on the way down. Again, *seems* logical, but no direct experience with that approach. Not certain how comfortable I'd be with only a downhaul but don't see how different that would be from the ATN system ?? As taut as you can make the ATN line, it's still going to flex under my weight (fwiw, I weigh 178lbs).

I liked the straight-forwardedness of the MastMate approach -- while the ATN Topclimber has lots of fans and is very well regarded, it requires a secure taut line on which to ascend and something of a learning curve (according to some) to feel comfortable with. The MastMate is like climbing a ladder -- pure and simple. Only possible drawbacks are a) instances where you might have to work around your sail track; and b) the fact that the steps are quite 'tall' (note that they will make custom ladders with shorter steps). My experiences with Mastmate are also my first experiences going aloft so I have no direct hands-on comparison with ATN TopClimber just a lot of research.


----------



## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

I've used my MastMate a couple of times, and it's been great. I've used the sail track, so I can't comment on that, but if I didn't have access to it, I'm glad to hear of the idea of tying off in a few places to stabilize.

BTW, I did get the work belt which I hook around the mast as a guard against falling backward--but I don't depend on it, so standing can get a little tiring up top.


----------



## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

For those that used mastmate - a question: it looks like the mastmate is sold without actual track slides. Aside from having to buy them separately, how are slides connected to the mastmate? How much work is it to put them on?


----------



## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

brak said:


> For those that used mastmate - a question: it looks like the mastmate is sold without actual track slides. Aside from having to buy them separately, how are slides connected to the mastmate? How much work is it to put them on?


Mastmate is sold without the sail slides but is supplied with U-shaped nylon connectors for the purpose of attaching sail slides to the grommets in the Mastmate. The u-shaped connectors have a single screw (see bottom pic). My 35ft Mastmate has 25 slides and the whole process took under a half hour.

Here are some pics that show the MastMate and the nylon fittings.


----------



## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Trescool said:


> I'm still confused as to how I get the line to the top of the mast. Do I have to swap a line? Which one? HELP!
> 
> Thanks!


I have a new 1/2" main halyard with what they call a thimbled headboard shackle eyespliced to it, to that I bowline a 7/16th static line, that static line goes to a block either on the deck or a block attached low on a 
stanchion depending on where I going, then the static lineruns to a wench were it is wenched taught.

I use the climber quit a bit and I double check everything each time I use it


----------



## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

Cool. Well, ascenders go back to the store and I just ordered a mastmate. I think psychologically ladder would work better for me - it is more "normal". I guess I'll have to measure for sail slides and buy some next week.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I'll weigh in on this as I have experience with both the Mast Mate and the Top Climber.

Mast Mate - I own the MM and have used it twice - once for the video we made, and the second time for replacing the anchor light bulb. It was neither or difficult or super easy to use. It takes time to set up if you need to remove the main and use the track/slides. The climb itself takes getting used to. Again, it's not difficult, but being 5'6" it seemed like the steps were spaced a wee bit further apart than I would have liked. It does work as advertised, and is good when the boat is at rest. However, if the main got stuck at sea and I needed to go up, I would be somewhat uneasy about going up the MM without having it secured in the mainsail track every foot or so...

ATN - It's actually very easy to use - once you get the "rythym". I've used it at the boat show after watching Etienne use it hundreds of times. I used a friends once on his boat at the dock because he had a bad back at the time. Someone earlier made a good observation that it would help to secure the lower end of the halyard about 20 degrees off the base of the mast. Then you won't be "kicking" the mast on the way up with every push.

Bottom line is the both are good for going up when there is no one around to assist with a traditional bosuns chair - which is still my preferred way to go aloft. However, I plan on getting a Top Climber or constructing one from mountain climbing gear in the future. I'll keep the Mast Mate, but probably as a backup.

If you want to see both of them in action, we have video demos of them on our Latitudes & Attitudes TV site. Just go to Latitudes and Attitudes Television and select the "Product Demos" tab. Once you select either video, click on "Play Part 1" in the lower right.


----------



## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

Moonfish said:


> However, if the main got stuck at sea and I needed to go up, I would be somewhat uneasy about going up the MM without having it secured in the mainsail track every foot or so...


IMHO 

I would be "uneasy" going up the mast at sea, period. If main got stuck - it gets to stay there until it shreds to little pieces, if I can't pull it down. The heck I am going up the swaying stick with flapping sail near me when it's blowing out there and the boat is dancing around.

For my purposes there is no such thing as going up the mast underway. I like sailing but I am not that suicidal just yet (may be a few more years of kids would change my mind, I don't know).


----------



## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

It's great when you've got someone like Moonfish with experience with both. But just to follow up on Moonfish's point on needing to remove the main with the MM: I didn't have to remove my main. I think this depends on your mast setup. Our mast track has an "entry point" cutout for the slugs (working from somewhat hazy memory here), so that all but a few of the main slugs are below the entry point when the main is dropped. All I had to do was drop the main and slide out the top few main slugs to give me room to slide the MM slugs in.


----------



## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

arf145 said:


> It's great when you've got someone like Moonfish with experience with both. But just to follow up on Moonfish's point on needing to remove the main with the MM: I didn't have to remove my main. I think this depends on your mast setup. Our mast track has an "entry point" cutout for the slugs (working from somewhat hazy memory here), so that all but a few of the main slugs are below the entry point when the main is dropped. All I had to do was drop the main and slide out the top few main slugs to give me room to slide the MM slugs in.


I didn't have to remove mine either -- just removed the top few mainsail slugs from the track so that my first step in the MM wasn't going to mash to the top of my sail with my weight on on it.


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

The slugs on our main are all below the loading gate when it's flaked, so that wouldn't be an issue for us. And, like brak, I can't really see myself going up the mast, at sea, with the main up . (Tho you never know, I guess.) No, to me the bigger issue is "flexibility." With the TopClimber I can get to my spreader ends. I don't see how one could safely do that with the Mast Mate.

Jim


----------

