# anchorage etiquette



## ellenwhite2 (May 27, 2008)

Being fairly new liveaboards (2yrs) and having hopped from secluded anchorages to marinas, we now find ourselves in a very crowded anchorage. I'm wondering what is proper generator running etiquette? Time guidelines? Perhaps this has been discussed in another thread, but my "search" isn't functioning correctly. Thanks!


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Noise is noise Ellen. Don't run Genny's before 8am or after 10pm, live and let live. 

Folks that complain if you run a genny's in that time frame should be invited to drop off charged batteries at your convenience, or exit the anchorage.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

8am to 10 pm is pretty typical, most of our parks have similar noise restrictions. 

However the issue is more than the noise.. There are few things worse than trying to enjoy a meal at the cockpit table engulfed in someone's diesel exhaust fumes. I always appreciate it if a nearby boater talks to us about it first ( "sorry, an hour or so should do it") and I really don't appreciate it when someone starts a genset ( esp a noisy on-deck set) and then goes ashore while it runs because its too noisy for them.

Power boats are most problematic because they often need to run AC appliances at mealtimes, not to mention the often-present animosity between camps.

It can be a difficult issue from both sides...


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Don't run it while the sun is setiing either.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Hard to say the precise hours that will not offend. Well after sunrise, I suppose. 10pm sounds late to me.

If I'm unsure if I will bother anyone, I usually look around to see if I'm the only one that will be running one. Herd mentality, I guess.

If the wind is howling and fetch is slapping, no one is going to hear it.


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## FSMike (Jan 15, 2010)

I am more forgiving of generators if they are downwind of me.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

We try not to anchor in the middle of the anchorage, but down wind as much as practical. However, when we are there first and someone anchors astern of us (or any vessel with two exhausts), then they can expect some fumes and noise, though I doubt anyone more than 30' away can hear our Onan. On the other hand we really don't appreciate it when a boat squeezes in up wind of us, then runs their gene all night long, but hey what you gonna do? Also the little, noisy gas generators running on deck make an anchorage most unpleasant.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

capta said:


> We try not to anchor in the middle of the anchorage, but down wind as much as practical. However, when we are there first and someone anchors astern of us (or any vessel with two exhausts), then they can expect some fumes and noise, though I doubt anyone more than 30' away can hear our Onan. On the other hand we really don't appreciate it when a boat squeezes in up wind of us, then runs their gene all night long, but hey what you gonna do? Also the little, noisy gas generators running on deck make an anchorage most unpleasant.


This is the proper phoilosphy.
In regards to " Hey what you gonna do". There have been times, and it's happened plenty, that some one would anchor 2 boat lengths in front of me and fill my cabin with their exhaust. Most times I move with a mean stare in thieir direction. As I have to sail off the hook and don't have a generator or engine my self I had could hardly return the gesture. There are however more creative way's of dealing with these people. I learned many techniques cruising with Grandad as a boy. 
I remember several all night gen. runners waking to their halyards on deck. ( my grandpa was A D-day jump'n 82nd airborn Original Bad A$$ with a low Horse Sh!t tollerance) 
My fav. was the power boater in Eluthra back in '83, who woke up to find his Colmen deck gen. ( after many other display's of rude) missing completely. They did however find it tied to their anchor when they raised it to leave.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Up here in Maine 9 am - 4 pm are pretty much the acceptable hours of use....


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## blutoyz (Oct 28, 2012)

Capt.aaron said:


> This is the proper phoilosphy.
> In regards to " Hey what you gonna do". There have been times, and it's happened plenty, that some one would anchor 2 boat lengths in front of me and fill my cabin with their exhaust. Most times I move with a mean stare in thieir direction. As I have to sail off the hook and don't have a generator or engine my self I had could hardly return the gesture. There are however more creative way's of dealing with these people. I learned many techniques cruising with Grandad as a boy.
> I remember several all night gen. runners waking to their halyards on deck. ( my grandpa was A D-day jump'n 82nd airborn Original Bad A$$ with a low Horse Sh!t tollerance)
> My fav. was the power boater in Eluthra back in '83, who woke up to find his Colmen deck gen. ( after many other display's of rude) missing completely. They did however find it tied to their anchor when they raised it to leave.


Don't mess with the greatest generation...after what they went through little things like tossing equipment overboard won't even phase them.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Capt.aaron said:


> My fav. was the power boater in Eluthra back in '83, who woke up to find his Colmen deck gen. ( after many other display's of rude) missing completely. *They did however find it tied to their anchor when they raised it to leave.*


Good place for it....


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Someone needs to teach the Chesapeake boats etiquette then.

Power Boaters and sailboaters alike think nothing of running their generators all night in an anchorage to run their air conditioners to stay cool. Ive chastized a few of my friends who have the Honda 2000 ( I have one also) about anchoring upwind of others and then running it all night spewing fumes. They are very aware of fumes comming into their own cabins, but sometimes unwittingly dont think of those downwind. Mmost people are good manered, but it justs take one to ruin the party and ambiance,

I think because it is so brutally hot and humid. here in the Chessie in July and August people run them all night more frequently

Dave


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

10pm is after Cruisers Midnight of 9pm so I would turn it off by then.

I hate those red Honda petrol generators because people run them on deck and they are loud!

Reinforce earlier comments about people who turn generator on then go to shore. How ignorant!

Can we change this to a gun thread so we can discuss how to shoot out a generator sitting on deck? :laugher. 50 Cal should do it.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

My wife had a little Honda " suitcase" gen. When on eco throtlle, and placed in the foot well of the cockpit of her Ranger 26, you could not hear it when sitting next to the boat in a dinghy. We would watch movies at night out on the anchorage off key west. I would Kayak over to visit her from my boat, which was generally anchored down wind of her, and would'nt know she had the thing on untill I popped my head up over her rail to climb a board.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

lol mark---i still love ye....
i got here first, way back in december--am anchored in zihuatenejo right in the middle of the playa madera/playa principal anchorage. 
i was nice n quiet until my mechanic arrived--now we use a daylight only generator--used to be a red honda now is a plain wrap--err unwrapped honda 2000.
because i use the genny i now have a beautiful bit of independence--my electric windlass works perfectly well...as does my manual one.(manny and ellie on my bow)
now when we finish alignment and motor mounts i can sail as a buddy boat with my mechanic --and not have to concern myself with finding crew..
but i wanna shoot souls who donot have a clue as to how the anchors are set in a south facing bay with 360 circling daily...
.some folks seem to think pulling up someone else's anchor is a fun thing to do--and do not take responsibility for their actions .....


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Capt.aaron said:


> My wife had a little Honda " suitcase" gen. When on eco throtlle, and placed in the foot well of the cockpit of her Ranger 26, you could not hear it when sitting next to the boat in a dinghy. We would watch movies at night out on the anchorage off key west. I would Kayak over to visit her from my boat, which was generally anchored down wind of her, and would'nt know she had the thing on untill I popped my head up over her rail to climb a board.


They are unbeleiveably quiet...especially in the eco mode.....I have one. Whe people use the to power their air cons its full throttle and its not so much the noise.....its the fumes downwind which get me. When I go below I hear nothing of them.

Dave


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

Maine Sail said:


> Up here in Maine 9 am - 4 pm are pretty much the acceptable hours of use....


Acceptable,...do you think we're there yet?

Personally, I hope not. It's bound to happen in some harbors. I spent an hour or so between a sailboat running their engine on my port side and a powerboat off my bow running a belowdecks gen set. There were both completely audible even though the owners probably didn't think so. You just have to endure it or go ashore. I wouldn't do it myself.

For the most part though, it's still rare in the places we anchor which is the majority of time for us.

Keep up the good work Mainesail promoting big battery banks.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

9AM is way too early for some of us. If we have the courtesy NOT to keep you up till 3AM, you shouldn't wake me up until after 11AM.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Faster said:


> I really don't appreciate it when someone starts a genset ( esp a noisy on-deck set) and then goes ashore while it runs because its too noisy for them.


One of my biggest frustration are people with the Honda suitcase generators who insist they are quiet. Those things have the irritating whine of a mosquito circling your head.


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## okawbow (Feb 15, 2007)

I have a cannon for my little schooner now. If someone wants to run their generator all night, they shouldn't mind me firing off my cannon at dawn...


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

I've never understood the need for an AC at anchor. In a windless Marina at a cement dock in the summer time, o.k. but why these tenderfooted, soft pawed, landlubber, suburbanites, need to anchor right up on me with the their gadget boat full of ammenities for the dandy cruiser, when there is a whole frik'n ocean out there baffles me to no end.........and sailing gloves, really?


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

TomMaine said:


> Acceptable,...do you think we're there yet?
> 
> Personally, I hope not. It's bound to happen in some harbors. I spent an hour or so between a sailboat running their engine on my port side and a powerboat off my bow running a belowdecks gen set. There were both completely audible even though the owners probably didn't think so. You just have to endure it or go ashore. I wouldn't do it myself.
> 
> ...


Quite frankly any generator use in our idyllic anchorages I personally find rude, but people do it. Many seem to now "accept" sun up and before cocktail and after breakfast hours are ok. I don't personally but that's just me..

With the majority of boats on this coast sub 40' I find little justification for generators use. DC systems and battery management can easily be manged on boats of this size without a generator.

When our anchorages get to glass calm, as they do many an evening, even the "quiet" Honda's can be heard for a LOOOOOOOONG distance...

I actually just left a boat after installing a custom alternator, regulator, battery monitor and re-wiring the charging system. He is also getting solar.

I just took measurements and am now at a coffee shop ordering a custom battery box for some industrial L-16 Trojan batteries. The owner wants to be 100% self sufficient and is adamant that he will NEVER use a generator. He is paying me good money so he is NOT rude to others and this whole upgrade was caused and set into motion by a RUDE boater. Kudo's to him!

Maine is a little different than most places but I like the peace & quiet. Sadly more schmucks buy Honda's and gensets every year and they are slowly ruining how idyllic Maine once was to cruise. Honda generators are NOT quiet !!!!!

Hell we watched a 50'+ power boat come into an anchorage, the owner dropped anchor from his enclosed flybridge then went down into the cabin and fired up what had to be a 50" TV and proceeded to plop in front of it while his genset ran 24/7.. The guy never stepped out of the cabin in the 7 hours we endured his exhaust before upping anchor and moving. May his props find some good solid Maine granite...


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

That's exactly how I feel. I'm glad that someone else chimed in on this thread who is anti-generator. So far with my limited cruising in the PNW most anchorages have been quiet. We did have to move once at Stuart Island when a large boat moved in next door to us and prompted turned on the gen-set. Such a nuisance when you've gone a long way to find quietness.

With modern LED lights and lower power consumption tablet computers I just don't see where all of the power is going, at least in places like the PNW where air conditioning isn't useful.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I have to say that we don't run into overly offensive generators very often, and it's most likely to happen in popular anchorages and marinas than your typical 'one or two boat' coves that we tend to favour. However it does happen, and there's no need for it with today's DC technology.

What boggles my mind is why would anyone design a galley on any boat that runs on AC and requires a generator running to even make a pot of coffee? And this is not just on the large yachts either..


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Maine Sail said:


> Quite frankly any generator use in our idyllic anchorages I personally find rude, but people do it. Many seem to now "accept" sun up and before cocktail and after breakfast hours are ok. I don't personally but that's just me..
> 
> With the majority of boats on this coast sub 40' I find little justification for generators use. DC systems and battery management can easily be manged on boats of this size without a generator.
> 
> ...


I'm bett'n his anchor and chain were too small as well. It's in moments like that, I call on the spirit of my fore mentioned Grandpa, and find a creative and slightly less harmfull, yet sporty way of dealing a card of justice. Sometimes we need to teach these dudes "what's what" out there. First a polite request, and then the good 'ol "I tried to tell ya!" I've lived on the hook since I was 8 years old. 33 years later, I've come to realize that there are those that are and those that are'nt. Sometimes a little push towards curtousy will make the world a better place for everyone these dip sh!ts encounter later on.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

We did a "visit to the dark side" last month at the Atlantic City Boat show and checked out some power boats. What shocked me was so many of them had electric ranges 

That means firing up a generator just to cook dinner.

I just can't understand why anyone would design a boat that way?????


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Funny, I have never used my HOnda 2000 on the boat yet and dont carry it. It sits at home for the many outages us in MD have I have used it twice in 4 years. Once we were without power for 4 days ( Irene) and last year for 6 days after the Deracho. The first time it power my refrigerator and the fan on our pellet stove so we had heat. The second time the refrigerator. It paid for itself in food not lost already. 

I primarily bought it for that thinking I might also take it on our next cruising boat


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## three-quartertime (Nov 5, 2012)

This is a timely topic for me. For the past week, the Admiral and I have discussed whether or not to install a diesel generator. Yesterday we decided against it. Besides the noise factor, it just adds complexity to the boat. We like to keep things simple. 

By the way, I think the anti-generator sailors are a very large majority. A few years ago on a beautiful summer eveing we were anchored in a crowded anchorage. Shortly after dusk one boat fired up a loud generator. After a while, someone yelled repeatedly "Turn the generator off." Several of the rest of us quickly chimed in. Eventually the guy got the message and turned the thing off.. . and everyone in the anchorage applauded. It was a beautiful moment.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

Capt.aaron said:


> I've never understood the need for an AC at anchor. In a windless Marina at a cement dock in the summer time, o.k. but why these tenderfooted, soft pawed, landlubber, suburbanites, need to anchor right up on me with the their gadget boat full of ammenities for the dandy cruiser, when there is a whole frik'n ocean out there baffles me to no end.........and sailing gloves, really?


These are probably the same people that always park next to my car... which I always park at the edges of a parking lot away from everyone else. Whenever I come out.. there is always one car parked right next to mine (if not two) while there are probably 50 more spaces all around sitting empty


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## misfits (Dec 9, 2011)

When it comes to generators, you guys are brutal. 

Drop the hook, fire up the 10000 watt home depot generator, turn on the ac & go down below. The hell with everyone :laugher


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

I have the Honda 2000 genny and never used it but my neighbor next door turns on his diesel engine to run the generator for his batteries for hours on end... talk about noise and smell... trust me the Honda genny is feeble in noise and generation of fumes... anything downwind isn't good in my book!


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

after the Derecho and hurrican sandy.. my neighbor across the street ran his 24/7 until power came back... it's near impossible to sleep with that thing droning on and on and on when you are in a house. I could not imagine being on a boat


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

JimMcGee said:


> We did a "visit to the dark side" last month at the Atlantic City Boat show and checked out some power boats. What shocked me was so many of them had electric ranges
> 
> That means firing up a generator just to cook dinner.
> 
> I just can't understand why anyone would design a boat that way?????


Met a couple on a 48 ft SAILBOAT who had an electric range and barbie.

Mind you they sat below at nights buttoned up with the ac on.

The good news was their genny was realy quiet.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Anyone that runs their generator overnight, while they are sleeping, is going to win the Darwin award eventually.

There must not be much wind around all these sensitive anchorages. Way more often than not, we will have too much wind noise to know if someone's generator is running at the next mooring. Personally, I do not recall seeing a Honda Gen on the deck, so I'll reserve anchorage judgement, until I hear one for myself. I have one at home.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

TQA said:


> Met a couple on a 48 ft SAILBOAT who had an electric range and barbie.
> 
> Mind you they sat below at nights buttoned up with the ac on.
> 
> The good news was their genny was realy quiet.


TQA, I just can't fathom the logic of either the designer or the buyer. Haven't these people ever heard of propane? 

And why would you want to run a noisy generator every time you cook a meal? 

I just don't get it...


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## olddog60 (Oct 20, 2011)

Not all genny's are noisy. I have 3-4 inches of insulation around the engine room plus the genny has it own insulation on top of that. That said, you cannot hear my genny 20 ft away. The fumes are altogether a different story. Like someone else said must be no wind for it to bother anyone. But most I know do not run genny's at nite unless it miserable hot.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Exhaust pipes are what large Idaho potatoes are for.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Capt Len said:


> Exhaust pipes are what large Idaho potatoes are for.


And garden hoses.............


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Anyone that runs their generator overnight, while they are sleeping, is going to win the Darwin award eventually.
> 
> There must not be much wind around all these sensitive anchorages. Way more often than not, we will have too much wind noise to know if someone's generator is running at the next mooring. Personally, I do not recall seeing a Honda Gen on the deck, so I'll reserve anchorage judgement, until I hear one for myself. I have one at home.


Often you can't hear it , but if downwind you can smell the fumes.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

three-quartertime said:


> This is a timely topic for me. For the past week, the Admiral and I have discussed whether or not to install a diesel generator. Yesterday we decided against it. Besides the noise factor, it just adds complexity to the boat. We like to keep things simple.


Complexity is definitely true.

In addition to multiple layers of noise insulation there are water separators that route the cooled exhaust gas out the side of the boat and the water out a thru-hull below the waterline. It's amazingly effective and very quiet.


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## flandria (Jul 31, 2012)

A lot of comments here, some good. I do not have a generator but must run the engine to top off the batteries, starting the second day away from dock. The main culprit is the fridge, and, while underway, all the instruments and the autopilot (no air conditioning). Even though the engine runs quietly, at idle speed (a no-no for a diesel, but...), I resent it. I will probably install sufficient solar panels to reduce the reliance on diesel-generated power to an absolute minimum (up here, you can not rely on wind when in a well protected anchorage). An alternative that my spouse will not consider is to reduce or eliminate the use of the fridge, even though we are often away for short trips of only 3 or 4 nights. "Back to basics" goes only so far for her, and for many others...


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Forgive me brothers & sisters, for I have sinned . We've had a Yamaha 1000 portable gas generator for years now. It's our electrical safety blanket. But up until last season, we'd used it twice in 8 years while on the hook, and both those were when we were alone. 

Last season we got three days into our six-week meander around Lake Superior and discovered our wind generator had packed it in. Our electrical needs are modest, but we motor very little while cruising, so we eventually had to choose between running the big diesel at anchor, or running the little generator. The choice became obvious...

I abhor noise at anchor, so I visited all the boats in our anchorages, and chagrinly requested their approval. Everyone was great, and assured us it would be no problem. After running the generator for a while I polled the boats, and no one said the noise was a problem, however our anchorages are rarely busy, and the gaps between boats can be relatively large. Although none of our neighbours said they found it annoying, and most said they couldn't even hear it -- I FOUND IT ANNOYING! Quite frankly, I think my fellow anchorage neighbours were just being nice .

My little experiment proved to me that while those little generators are not as annoying as a big genset, nor as loud or wasteful as running the ship's diesel, they are certainly not quiet, even in "eco" mode. I shall not sin again ... We are installing a new wing generator (one of those "silent" ones), and new solar panels for the coming season.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

MikeOReilly said:


> most said they couldn't even hear it -- I FOUND IT ANNOYING! Quite frankly, I think my fellow anchorage neighbours were just being nice .


It's human behavior to not complain but then go seethe. It's nice of you to have gone around and asked. It gave them all the opportunity to express their real thoughts.

I recently had the reverse experience talking to a guy on a Hunter with his lil red Honda on the swim platform. He was saying how they couldn't hear it at all. The rest of the anchorage could because it was pointing at us!

It's nice that you are understanding of the noise. 

Of course we must expect there to be odd situations, especially when outside the tropics where solar is abundant... If someone gets back to their boat late at night and sees the batteries are accidentally way down and they have a choice of loosing their frozen food, or damaging their batteries then they must charge immediately, and should feel free to do so.
We all make mistakes, and we all need to be understanding of it.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

honestly.. I have no problems with people starting up a generator to charge batteries (or even cook as these new boats seem too dependant on electricity) but it is when people leave them running for hours on end...


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

ellenwhite2 said:


> Being fairly new liveaboards (2yrs) and having hopped from secluded anchorages to marinas, we now find ourselves in a very crowded anchorage. I'm wondering what is proper generator running etiquette? Time guidelines? Perhaps this has been discussed in another thread, but my "search" isn't functioning correctly. Thanks!


I say we ban Ellen for starting such a controversial thread!! (She and I are friends, btw... see you in a couple of weeks or less!)

On topic: After sunrise and before sunset. Interesting timing here Ellen, because we all anchored out for one last hoorah at Longboat this last weekend, and someone had a generator going that night and the police stopped by the next morning and told all the boaters, "No generators after 1000 pm." For those that do not know, Longboat is a VERY tight anchorage with boats generally anchored within a few boat lengths or less. In fact, we saw a nice, high speed collision this weekend.

Off Topic:

This thread seems to have taken a "don't take or use a generator" bent to it. All of you that are arguing against generators, or their use, do you cruise fulltime?

I get the weekend warriors that can somehow make their battery banks last a few days. Of course, many of you are the same ones that leave the dock with two coolers full of ice (also called Cruiser's Gold)!! But after a few days (even with a large solar bank), your batteries are not getting fully charged and you will be surprised how quickly you will lose your power.

I personally have 780 watts (6-Kyocera 130 watt panels) on my boat and I still have issues when the sun does not participate. Now my example is a bit extreme because all four of us (the kids included) require computers and have to use them during the day (the kids are home schooled). However, 150 ah/day is not unreasonable for a cruiser with a fridge. I understand that there are some who can do without refrigeration, and Capt Aaron has my immense respect, but most cruisers I know who have tried to go minimalist do not last very long. And that is just for batteries!! We have not even disccused a windless night where the lows are in the mid 80s. We have not discussed hot water which goes very fast in cool/cold weather. We have not diuscussed making water, the microwave, toaster, coffee pot, etc. Sure, you can go without a lot of that stuff, but other than the fact it always makes the boat feel like you are camping out (compared to a home), now you are eating up propane. Diesel and gas are easy to get, but propane is a right PITA to get as a F/T cruiser. Sorry... just reality. If you do not run your generator, you will need some other way to charge your batteries. You can plug into a marina every other night, you can run your main (not much quieter with the spalsh-splash, incidentally), or you can put in a very expensive electrical charging system (solar, wind, large battery bank, etc).

Personally, I periodically use a Mastervolt Diesel generator. It is very hard to hear unless you are in the cockpit. You can hear the splashing though. It burns about a pint/hour of diesel. I can tell you that if you are a few boat legths away, you will not hear it. It does produce some fumes, but they are minimal. Its cost? Well, I guess installed around $15,000. How many of you want to go dump $15,000 in a quiet diesel generator so you do not upset the anchorage? I wouldn't. Solar? Well, you will likely need in the neighborhood or 4 130 watt panels to stay off the grid if you are conservative. Let's see... $2400 for the panels, $500 for the controller, $4000 (aluminum)-$10,000 (Stainless) for the arch (mine was $4), few hundred dollars for the wiring and connectors... and for the grand total of $7500-$13,500 (assuming you do the entire install yourself) you can be quiet... assuming the sun participates. You will still run low on power eventually and have to recharge as it is unlikely that you will always (sometimes never) get your batteries back to a full SOC. Oh, and that does not get you hot water.

So, if faced with putting off cruising for a while, or getting a little red Honda, which would you choose? If the choice was staying out cruising longer, using less money (boat dollars) or dumping $8-10,000 to be quiet, which would you choose? I mean, many people on Sailnet do not even have a $10,000 boat!!! $10,000 might be the total costs for cruising for a year.

All I am saying is have pity on those who run the generators. Many abuse it. I get that. But many more are doing what they are doing because they have to and took the least expensive option they could. And if I could do it all over, that little red thing would look awfully tempting versus the rediculous money I have spent to do without it.

My opinions,

Brian

PS Ellen - Kick Bob for me, ok?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Cruisingdad said:


> I say we ban Ellen for starting such a controversial thread!! (She and I are friends, btw... see you in a couple of weeks or less!)
> 
> On topic: After sunrise and before sunset. Interesting timing here Ellen, because we all anchored out for one last hoorah at Longboat this last weekend, and someone had a generator going that night and the police stopped by the next morning and told all the boaters, "No generators after 1000 pm." For those that do not know, Longboat is a VERY tight anchorage with boats generally anchored within a few boat lengths or less. In fact, we saw a nice, high speed collision this weekend.
> 
> ...


Agreed. For the most part

The OP posted on the etiquette of it. Personnally I dont care if you run your generator or not. Most of us are not cruisers and are "weekend warriors" as you determined it. There are not a lot of cruisers on the Chesapeake so most running generators for air conditioning or minor battery charging I assume. I have one of those Honda 2000 myself. It is not my concern how or why you have to recharge your batteries or run your air conditioner, nor is it my right to tell you not to do it, unless you have come into an anchorage after me and pulled upwind and I and others are choking on your fumes. My wife has a super sensitivity to fumes and smoke, and it can give her a potential asthma attack.

In actuallity I am not concerned about the noise as much as I am about the fumes coming off any of the generators. Most generators inboard and the HOndas are quite quiet when below for sure. However one wants to smell or be sickened by a generator of a boat who positions himself windward of you.

I think the proper etiquette is for those of you who anchor and need to run a generator to anchor on the peirphery of the anchorage areas if they are crowded, if possible so very few people if any are downwind of you. It IMHO is improper etiquette and downright rude if you know you will be using a generator, to pull into a crowded anchorage or any anchorage and purposely place other boats in your " fume shadow" and act like it is ok to ruin their anchoring experience. Doesnt make any difference if you are a cruiser, weekend warrior or day tripper, no one is less than. Its about being courteous.

I also beleive it is the responsibilty of boats who arrive after you to recognize you are running your generator and anchor themselves accordingly not down wind of you and not to blame you or expect you to shut your generator down.

Etiquette in this case is really courtesy and respecting others rights to breathe clean air.


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## alanporter (Jul 7, 2000)

I was a guest on a friend's boat in a quiet anchorage, when another boat came in, anchored nearby, then proceeded to rev up a portable generator, put it into his dinghy, and push it away from his boat. The painter and the electrical cable were long enough for the dinghy to drift very close to our boat, making it noisy for us but quiet for our neighbour. My friend, without saying a word either to them or to me, quietly slipped overboard, swam underneath the dinghy and punched out the drain plug. We then sat back and watched the results. The folk on the other boat didn't appear to suspect what had actually happened.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

chef2sail said:


> Agreed. For the most part
> 
> The OP posted on the etiquette of it. Personnally I dont care if you run your generator or not. Most of us are not cruisers and are "weekend warriors" as you determined it. There are not a lot of cruisers on the Chesapeake so most running generators for air conditioning or minor battery charging I assume. I have one of those Honda 2000 myself. It is not my concern how or why you have to recharge your batteries or run your air conditioner, nor is it my right to tell you not to do it, unless you have come into an anchorage after me and pulled upwind and I and others are choking on your fumes. My wife has a super sensitivity to fumes and smoke, and it can give her a potential asthma attack.
> 
> ...


I have not cruised the Chessy (yet!!), but am curious how this is done? Here, your boat will often turn against the wind depending on the current. So you might anchor downwind, but when the tide shifts, you are now upwind. Also, many of the anchorages here are tight to very tight. Your choice of spots is limited to say the least.

I think the key is just doing it after sunrise and before sunset. And I don't know if it is just me, but the Honda generators dont even come close to comparing to the noise of many wind generators! MMMmmmmmmZZZZZzzzzz!!!!! So, should we suggest that those with wind generators shut theirs down at the same hours as a gas generator? Hmmm....

Brian


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

alanporter said:


> I was a guest on a friend's boat in a quiet anchorage, when another boat came in, anchored nearby, then proceeded to rev up a portable generator, put it into his dinghy, and push it away from his boat. The painter and the electrical cable were long enough for the dinghy to drift very close to our boat, making it noisy for us but quiet for our neighbour. My friend, without saying a word either to them or to me, quietly slipped overboard, swam underneath the dinghy and punched out the drain plug. We then sat back and watched the results. The folk on the other boat didn't appear to suspect what had actually happened.


Funny, but wow. I would hope any neighbors near me would simply come and ask. I would be scared of the retribution had he found out.

Brian


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## ftldiver (Sep 9, 2002)

what a bunch of thin skin sailors! LOL.

you don't know noise until you anchor at elliot key on a holiday weekend. Generators are the least of your problems! 

there is nothing like an all night Latin party with subwoofers, and mega watt amps.

Oh man, how I wished for the steady drone of a generator's white noise... 


Those 1000wt honda's are fine. run them all night.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

Cruisingdad said:


> All I am saying is have pity on those who run the generators. Many abuse it. I get that. But many more are doing what they are doing because they have to and took the least expensive option they could. And if I could do it all over, that little red thing would look awfully tempting versus the rediculous money I have spent to do without it.
> 
> My opinions,
> 
> ...


Don't be offended, some of us are sailing in areas where a liveaboard boat with a family onboard, is very, very rare. You can see the difference in boats in New England, they're more lightly equipped than liveaboard boats. I've sailed down south and recognize snowbirds or full time southern liveaboards, they're living off the grid so to speak.

To keep a family happily powered at anchor, my hat is off to you! 

The little bit of generator/engine abuse that I find irritating in some of the more pristine anchorages, are 40 foot boats that are fossil fuel powered life support systems for a little refrigerated box below.

Most pace themselves knowing they'll run their engines the next day traveling, maybe buy a block of ice or two(they're only 2 bucks and plentiful on the Maine coast).

It's not a problem here, but I hear a few complaints, and understand them.

Very few visiting boats that come here would be happy if generators rang regularly through our anchorages.

We're a sailing destination for just the opposite sounds.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Cruisingdad said:


> I have not cruised the Chessy (yet!!), but am curious how this is done? Here, your boat will often turn against the wind depending on the current. So you might anchor downwind, but when the tide shifts, you are now upwind. Also, many of the anchorages here are tight to very tight. Your choice of spots is limited to say the least.
> 
> I think the key is just doing it after sunrise and before sunset. And I don't know if it is just me, but the Honda generators dont even come close to comparing to the noise of many wind generators! MMMmmmmmmZZZZZzzzzz!!!!! So, should we suggest that those with wind generators shut theirs down at the same hours as a gas generator? Hmmm....
> 
> Brian


Grill man good to see you back Hows the hand?

Chessie has very little tide or current.

As my post indicated noise is not the issue, its the fumes. Noise wont make you sick or isnt bad for your health. Fumes are. In our society today people are very concerned as am I about breathing cigeratte smoke, gas fumes etc.

My post stated about the courtesy of not anchoring in front of someone and then running a genrator when you have the oppertunity not to. I hope that makes some sense. I try and practice responsibilty and courtesy to others when boating. In most instances it never has been a problem.

If someone for no reason ( I can think of only one occasion where this happened) happens to anchor windward of us when they had other options and then proceed to run a generator, I have polietly told them their fumes have bothered us. On all occasions they understood and either moved or turned their generator off as we were there first anchored. Only once in 25 years of boating has someone actually gotten belligerent and given us the finger and told them we didnt own the water.

I pulled anchor and reanchored windward to him. He was so argumentative he continued to yell from his hailer that I anchored to close. We just ignored him. Eventually after a couple of hours he he came along side in his dinghy and launched into a tirade and demanded i move. I laughed turned my engine on, and sat anchored for a few hours engine exhaust floating through his cabin air conditioning.

To me its about the fumes and breathing clean air. You have the right to do what you want as long as it doesnt infringe my right to breathe clean air.

Clean air laws are everywhere now,mostlky to protect the rights of others from second hand cigarette smoke. Most people are very respectful and aware. Some of my friends smoke and are very respectfull not to bother others with it. They are very aware. Thats what we need here also. Not the noise my friend....the fumes. They can sicken you or hurt you.


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## ellenwhite2 (May 27, 2008)

Guilty. We have a little red Honda AND a noisy wind generator! Brian, we're saving you a mooring ball downwind of us. Tho, in self defense, I will tell you we installed more solar while (permanently) moored here and are finally getting a handle on our power needs. 
BTW, what's a microwave?


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

We try to conserve power and enjoy the anchorage. We can live without a microwave, AC and TV. We have amazing views and we read books when the views aren't there or just socialize. We have solar and a wind generator. I will not pull in close to anyone and use the wind gen but if I am the first one there, I will leave it running to ward off those who think anchoring as close as possible to another boat is socially acceptable. We welcome you to come visit in your dinghy(bearing gifts of course) but feel free to anchor on the other side of the cove if possible.

We love cruising Maine and the only sounds we want to hear are the waves, the wind and the laughter.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I think the answer is as everyone has stated: be kind and courteous to others around you. Just like you wouldn't blare your music late at night (ftldiver, you have my sympathy), neither should you be running generators or your main diesel. If you gotta charge, so be it. But do it during daytime hours. And if you've gotta run a generator through the night, anchor away from others. 

BTW, same goes for windmills. You can turn them off at night if the wind is makin' them howl (as some of the older models do).


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

I'm not anti gen. I'm looking at one for my trip down south this spring. It's about the etiquette. And I move my boat if someone bothers me, ask if I can't move, and only at sunset. I don't even care if you start up after th sun set, just not during. I own a 40 foot dive boat with 450 hp turbo deisel and a 75 kw kubota - northern lights gen set. A big noisy stink box. I do over night dive trips that turn into back country boom box party's out in the middle of no where. I use etiquette when I'm running my sh!t. simple. I say please and thank you, and try not to bother my neighbors. As I prepare my little sloop for a sail to Guanaja, Honduras, in order to make life easier, my wife and I have rented a studio apt. 2 blocks off Duval st. in Key West. We are moving everything to our property in Guanaja to make a go of it down there mostly full time. I know it's noisy 2 blocks from Duval so I don't complain about the noise 
( or the smell) I always tell people, if drunks, roosters and the din of club music bother you, why the @#!*% did you move 2 blocks from Duval! Now the dude who lets his gen drift off the back in a dinghy so he's not botherd and it's right up on me, he got what he deserved and the dude who pulled the plug ought to get a gold star!


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## misfits (Dec 9, 2011)

alanporter said:


> My friend, without saying a word either to them or to me, quietly slipped overboard, swam underneath the dinghy and punched out the drain plug. We then sat back and watched the results. The folk on the other boat didn't appear to suspect what had actually happened.


That is just evil in it's purist form & makes me want to uke


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

misfits said:


> That is just evil in it's purist form & makes me want to uke


It's evil to hang a gen off the back of a boat so it's closer to your neighbor in order not to bother you. If some dude let's his dog sh!t in my lawn so it's not in his, I am apt to rub his nose in it to teach him where he should'nt let his dog take a sh!t. If more people would put up with less horse sh!t, than there would be less horse sh!t to deal with.


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## misfits (Dec 9, 2011)

Capt.aaron said:


> It's evil to hang a gen off the back of a boat so it's closer to your neighbor in order not to bother you. If some dude let's his dog sh!t in my lawn so it's not in his, I am apt to rub his nose in it to teach him where he should'nt let his dog take a sh!t. If more people would put up with less horse sh!t, than there would be less horse sh!t to deal with.


How you can advocate & more importantly justify doing the Devils work by destroying someones property is pretty sad.

It's very comforting to know that someone like you will be representing the American people when in Honduras


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

If I put my gen in your yard so I did'nt have to hear it and smell it, I would be destroying it myself. One could only assume the effected party would take some action towards the device. If I Plowed my drive way and piled it up at the end of yours, I would expect retaliation.
I personaly, as I stated earlier, alway's ask politely for the offending party to stop what they are doing first, but blatent disrespect is quite rightly often met with action, and yes I aplaud it. 
As for Central America.
I spent 6 months, after surviving Huricane Mitch myself, carrying medicine and food on my back up over land slides to effected areas cut off from the world, high up in the Guatemalan highlands, and digging body's out of river banks with the Red Cross and C.A.R.E.
I spent 4 years studying the natural disaster of Huricane Gilbert on the reef off the Yucatan coast. I volunteerd for 3 months changing diapers in an orphanage. I sponsored a base ball team of under privilaged kids in Isla Mujeres when I owned a night club there. And I am currently raising funds for a clinic in Guanaja because we have nothing of the sort on the east end of the Island as well as promoting and Island clean up because the trash is out of control. I worked with the first lady of Guatemala and her girls scout troop puting together emergancy drop bags for family's cut off from supply's due to swolen rivers. I worked clearing mine fields in Columbia with the dep. director of the U.N. with a thing that looks like an over sized lawn mower. When you find one it detinates under a dome that you are holding with a 6 foot handle. My father in law and I set up a free veteranarian clinic to nueter animals in Honduras. And I sent two smart and under privilaged Venezualan Kids to college via a scholarship I connected them with so ya, you can rest assured I'll do you proud.


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## Bob142 (May 27, 2012)

Aaron...You might want to tell the locals that you are an american...they might not recognize you as one...


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Bob142 said:


> Aaron...You might want to tell the locals that you are an american...they might not recognize you as one...


My family has owned this house down there for 20 plus years, we all know each other well and some of us have even married in to the local population. When I was 18 years old, I signed on to a sailing research vessel and the rest is history. One thing has led to another and here we are. I was raised by a mean old man on a little sailboat who did'nt put up with peoples crap


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## Bob142 (May 27, 2012)

Vida a la deriva...


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## GMFL (Jun 9, 2010)

Capt.aaron said:


> As for Central America.
> I spent 6 months, after surviving Huricane Mitch myself, carrying medicine and food on my back up over land slides to effected areas cut off from the world, high up in the Guatemalan highlands, and digging body's out of river banks with the Red Cross and C.A.R.E.
> I spent 4 years studying the natural disaster of Huricane Gilbert on the reef off the Yucatan coast. I volunteerd for 3 months changing diapers in an orphanage. I sponsored a base ball team of under privilaged kids in Isla Mujeres when I owned a night club there. And I am currently raising funds for a clinic in Guanaja because we have nothing of the sort on the east end of the Island as well as promoting and Island clean up because the trash is out of control. I worked with the first lady of Guatemala and her girls scout troop puting together emergancy drop bags for family's cut off from supply's due to swolen rivers. I worked clearing mine fields in Columbia with the dep. director of the U.N. with a thing that looks like an over sized lawn mower. When you find one it detinates under a dome that you are holding with a 6 foot handle. My father in law and I set up a free veteranarian clinic to nueter animals in Honduras. And I sent two smart and under privilaged Venezualan Kids to college via a scholarship I connected them with so ya, you can rest assured I'll do you proud.


Mother F'n OUCH! I donated blood last month and thought I was doin' something. Guess I need to step it up...AWESOME.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Bob142 said:


> Aaron...You might want to tell the locals that you are an american...they might not recognize you as one...


Really? How ridiculous.

New report ranks most generous countries | World Vision News

Kudos to Aaron. I would bring my kids, when they were young, on volunteer medical flights to show them the value of helping others. I know many who are timid to step in and need a mentor to get started, but no one that wishes they hadn't once encouraged. Still the US is always in the top 10 most generous nations in the world.

Back to our regular programming. No matter how you might try to justify it, someone making noise can not be enough reason to destroy their property. Sorry.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I think it all just depends on the situation.

I don't mind the generators at all unless it is very still and quiet and you can hear them from a long distance, but that isn't usually the case, usually there is some wind and I don't think they are a problem at all, really. I'm surprised anyone would complain about the Honda's, I find those among the more tolerable, the ones I don't like are the ones that have a more metallic sound instead of the Honda's quiet purr. I also differ in opinion from some others here, if I had my choice of when someone else would run their generator I'd rather they run it from about midnight to 6am and leave it off during the day. Late at night the generators are just random noise that helps to drown out people yelling and stuff, and usually you're below deck where you can't hear it anyway. Even if it was close enough to hear a lot of us run fans if it is hot and they make the same kind of noise that generators make and I find that noise makes it easier to sleep.

Even with solar and wind power I think there comes a time when everyone would like to have a small generator to run for a while. You get enough cloudy windless days and eventually the bank is going to run down.



GMFL said:


> I donated blood last month:


Thank you for giving blood.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Like I said. I've alway's asked politely if they would'nt mind killi'n it for sun set. If the fumes Bother me, I move, if I can't move, I ask them to kill it, or move. Unfortunatly, there are some self centerd [email protected]#K nuts out there, especially people who look at my little sloop and feel an overwhelming sense of entitlement, sitt'n there on their "YACHT" who basically say "[email protected]#K you"
In these situations it's game on. Some lessons come hard.


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

Capt.aaron said:


> Like I said. I've alway's asked politely if they would'nt mind killi'n it for sun set. If the fumes Bother me, I move, if I can't move, I ask them to kill it, or move. Unfortunatly, there are some self centerd [email protected]#K nuts out there, especially people who look at my little sloop and feel an overwhelming sense of entitlement, sitt'n there on their "YACHT" who basically say "[email protected]#K you"
> In these situations it's game on. Some lessons come hard.


Yea, take it to those millionaires on their Oysters. I get ripped for not wanting liability on my 3K sailboat.
Maybe one of those nauticat captains could pony up the 1200$ needed. Thats probably the fuel costs for their dinghy for a week anyway.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Ya, and if the fore mentioned dude who hung his gen off the stern so it was closer to his neighbor was so worried about his property he would of taken better care to keep it safe. Some dudes are just asking for it.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Not wanting to sound like an environmental Nazi, or greenie Eco-moron but shouldn't we really have moved on from using petrol, gas, diesel to do our daily power generation?

I am no lover of wind generators, but between them and solar we really have all the worlds sailing areas covered.

Mark


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

i dont care about the stink freeking noisey generators, but do not anchor over my anchor..or so close i can smell your stinky cigarettes in 0300doubleohdarkthirty when i am sleeping...lol


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Harborless said:


> Yea, take it to those millionaires on their Oysters. I get ripped for not wanting liability on my 3K sailboat.
> Maybe one of those nauticat captains could pony up the 1200$ needed. Thats probably the fuel costs for their dinghy for a week anyway.


Wonder why your insurance is almost twice mine. Is it because its a hurricane area?


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

while cruising here i have yet to see an oyster in an anchorage. 2 amel super maru ketches, but no oysters. one nauticat--no oysters..i did see an oyster in mazatlan marina.....but no one was attending to it.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Spec'd two D400s and solar on top of hard bimini on new boat. Spec'd plumbing for generator but no generator. Have high output alternator. HATE, HATE generators. Another engine to maintain. Another arteficial noise and smell. Can't agree with Mark more. On prior boats used coastally brought a couple blocks of ice ( less money than the fuel for a generator). No excuse for a generator except in unusual circumstances. Have ac in saloon. Will run it to get humidity down and that's it. Interesting review of electrical sources in I think SAIL a few months back. Guy was cruising in scotland. Seems generator was most expensive way to get juice. Would expect given wind and sun density you would do better with wind/solar generation than generator anywhere in US for less money.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

there are some things i prefer to use genny for ---power tools and vacuum cleaners go on generator. the est i keep quiet. neighbors too close--i will get my 2 stroke genny running. c-ya....


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Not wanting to sound like an environmental Nazi, or greenie Eco-moron but shouldn't we really have moved on from using petrol, gas, diesel to do our daily power generation?
> 
> I am no lover of wind generators, but between them and solar we really have all the worlds sailing areas covered.
> 
> Mark


That makes sense to me. There are real exceptions, a few posted here. But for the most part, none of us want to put up with anymore noise and pollution on the water than is necessary.

A couple seasons ago, we took a float in tiny Camden Harbor Maine. It's really nice in there for an overnight. 30 feet off our starboard decks, a Hinckley B40 started his engine, and I could see, he was going to charge, right there(B40 on the left).

The irony was, that with the light prevailing southerly, his exhaust was going directly,...into another Hinckley B40, just a few yards downwind. He charged for over an hour, the typical needs of his dorm room sized refrigerator below.

From watching him, I sensed he was a nice guy, chatting and waving to people going by. Simply, with all the hubbub in that popular little harbor, he was oblivious to the fact this might bother someone.

The guy downwind, did come up a few times, and fan his nose, looking back. But he wasn't bothered enough to say anything. It was a beautiful day. You can buy blocks of ice, 10 and 50 pounds, on both sides of this harbor.

I didn't say anything either. It was a beautiful day, and I realized he was a charterer when his dinghy drifted under his counter and caught the exhaust outflow for a half hour. Live and learn.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

TomMaine said:


> That makes sense to me. There are real exceptions, a few posted here. But for the most part, none of us want to put up with anymore noise and pollution on the water than is necessary.
> 
> A couple seasons ago, we took a float in tiny Camden Harbor Maine. It's really nice in there for an overnight. 30 feet off our starboard decks, a Hinckley B40 started his engine, and I could see, he was going to charge, right there(B40 on the left).
> 
> ...


that bludi mess so looks like a marina to me...we at least anchor 100 or more ft away from each other....makes life nicer.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

I have two solar panels of 140w each and a small wind gen that runs quiet and doesn't disturb the neighbors. But on my boat my average daily consumption is about 230Ah and the passive systems above even on a good day do not always recover that. Unless I want my boat to look like a science experiment, these systems are not charging Nirvana

So if I want to replace what I use a genset is the only way to do it (or reduce life back to primitive). So I have built my own diesel genset that will run quiet enough that all one will hear outside the boat is the splashing of the exhausted coolant. It is not installed in the boat yet but I can run it in my garage and my family can't hear it in the room next door.

The fumes are something else - can't stop them but I allow my batteries to go down to a point where I have to charge then I will run the genset which puts out constant 200A at 12V so it will only run for short while to put back that which the passive systems can't. I can live with that and I believe all my neighbors in the anchorage will also.

But as has been said many times on this thread, live and let live. If anyone complains then the genset goes off.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

Our 260w solar keeps our ice cream frozen and our beer cold. No need for genset or ice blocks.

Zee, that is just the inner harbor and not much bigger than what you see in that photo. Some people love it here but my wife and I do not. Good provisioning stop but that is all. Mostly a big tourist trap. Mooring field outside of this area is much more private as you are interspersed with seasonal moorings. Fun to watch the schooners come and go.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

pretty place, but looks too cold to have that much traffic....


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

zeehag said:


> pretty place, but looks too cold to have that much traffic....


It is pretty, and cold right now. Like Tim says, it's two habors, inner and outer. It's a buzz in season.

We have a soft spot for it, we lived in the inner harbor for a summer while I built us some digs to live in over an old fish market on the harbor(a long story).

Our kids would swim right off the boat(when the harbormaster wasn't looking). We like to grab an inner float now and then. It's a fun little town and harbor, to sit and watch it all go by. We like it all.

We moved though, to a quieter town(and harbor), right next door.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Gorgeous shot, Tom.. beautiful country too. I think you downeasters and we BCers have a lot in common.. I'd love an opportunity to spend some time cruising Maine one day, cold or not, busy or not....


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

Thanks, Faster. I can't take credit for that shot but it's a typical one from nearby Mt Battie. You only see half of the inner harbor and a third of the outer in this photo. 

I feel the same, I'd love to explore your area by sailboat. I have friends and relatives that live there. They don't ever speak of leaving, only how much they love it. 

I know it's a beautiful place. There are too many for us to sail.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Someone mentioned the wind gens and I have to say that I've been annoyed by a squeaky wind gen about ten times more often than hearing a generator. Maybe 100 times.

If you are bothered, I admire someone who is willing to dinghy over and politely ask their neighbor to stop. If they won't stop, they are clearly a jerk. However, if they are not breaking any laws and you either accost them or damage their property, you should be arrested. Their is zero justification for breaking the law, just to get your way, in a civilized society.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Just wanna say sorry to the poor fellow whom had to consume the black smoke from my old tired W50 during his breakfast time! I swear that his anchoring so close to us well after us in his huge 50' Sea Ray and running his genset all night to power his equally huge flat screen TV had nothing to do with warming up our engine prior to departure for 10 minutes


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Someone mentioned the wind gens and I have to say that I've been annoyed by a squeaky wind gen about ten times more often than hearing a generator. Maybe 100 times.
> 
> If you are bothered, I admire someone who is willing to dinghy over and politely ask their neighbor to stop. If they won't stop, they are clearly a jerk. However, if they are not breaking any laws and you either accost them or damage their property, you should be arrested. Their is zero justification for breaking the law, just to get your way, in a civilized society.


Maybe. There is also the law of "2 Dudes" which has alway's trumped the law of the county. The Law of 2 dudes is an unspoken, law, known by all us "Dudes ". You can get smacked out here in the world, it may be against the "law " of the town you are in, but it's a very real law which regardless of your veiws, you are subject to.
There is an unspoken undersatnding amongst all of us, that if you act a ceratin way or say certain things there is a good chance you'll get smacked in one way or another by some dude who does'nt put up with crap. It's like jumping off the bridge above hidden creek in the Key's is illegal, but we've alway's jumped off it, and once you've jumped, you can't escape the law of gravity.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I would have more respect for someone trying to take a swing at me than sneaking over and damaging my things like a coward. I'm good with the two Dude rule and I'm very familiar with the less civilized world.

It's never going to come to that over my genset or anything else anyone would politely suggest was bothering them anyway. I'm a pretty good neighbor.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

saw a interesting listing for a V50 still in the shed at manufactor. Guy put a bunch of extra AGMs in the place where the genset would go. Figured that would carry him through when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow. Like the idea of two house banks. Just saying.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

outbound said:


> saw a interesting listing for a V50 still in the shed at manufactor. Guy put a bunch of extra AGMs in the place where the genset would go. Figured that would carry him through when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow. Like the idea of two house banks. Just saying.


The only works to a certain extent. You still have to charge them. Maybe good for a weekend where he returns to a slip for recharging.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I agree that deliberate property damage is not defensible, but neither is such utter ignorance/arrogance as to be that disrespectful as others.

I don't condone that fellow sinking the dinghy with the generator (if it's not simply a non-urban legend), but by G I understand the temptation!..


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

"Law of two dudes"... lol.. never heard that one... this sounds more like two dudes picking a fight on a less defensive dude (reminds me of servicemen coming into port and picking fights)... either way the law has written statutes for such offenses. 

I think trespassing onto others property (boat) to remove, destroy, sink, such items as noisy generators have its own consequences and I think if it were my generator I'd be pretty upset. Etiquette aside we can't be breaking laws because we don't like the noise or fumes... either contact the appropriate authorities, dockmaster, environmental officials, etc. but taking the law into your own hands is a bit much... law of dudes aside. :laugher


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

looked like he was planning to go off the grid. from the other spec's. but agree won't work if your swinging on the hook waiting out days of no wind with torrents of rain you can get down south. Then the smell and noise of a genset won't bother anyone. Oh well........


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

it seems that here in pair a dice good folks appreciate a generator in use as most of us came in here with problems......so we hang about 100-150 ft from each opther and use what we need to keep our stuff running as best we can as we actively cruise this part of mexico on our way to elsewhere and other ports.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

chef2sail said:


> Grill man good to see you back Hows the hand?
> 
> Chessie has very little tide or current.
> 
> ...


Life is good dave. Weather has been a bit bouncy lately, but making my way south. Be in fort myers beach tomorrow. Then keys next weekend... We hope.

Arm is good. Only complaint is i blew out my flip flop.

Brian


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## Silvio (Nov 10, 2010)

Cruisingdad said:


> ...Only complaint is i blew out my flip flop.
> 
> Brian


Step on a pop top? Cut your heel had to cruise on back home?

Sorry, couldn't help myself


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Little to add at this point, but that won't prevent me from trying... (grin)

The on-deck Hondas are definitely a "not minding the smell of your own farts" sort of deal, but anyone who insists they are "virtually silent" might want to get their hearing checked... However, I'm resigned to the fact that they're here to stay, and if they bother you that much, you just have to work harder to seek out secluded anchorages, I suppose... Still, they seem particularly out of place in Maine, especially since many cruisers have likely spent most of their day underway motoring/charging their batteries, anyway... They're all over the Bahamas now, more every year it seems, and it certainly does spoil the ambiance of a remote spot like Samana Cay, to have another boat arrive late in the day, and fire one of those things up...










Funny, however - one never seems to see them on European boats down there... I wonder why that is? (grin)

As for inconsiderate behavior, however, I rate those who allow one of those infernal early-model Air Marine Screaming Banshee wind generators to run _while berthed in a marina_ to be right at the top... Spent a couple of windy nights in Port Annapolis a few weeks ago within earshot of one of those pieces of crap, and really wished I'd had a large ball of monofilament fishing line handy... Would have stopped short of the actual "willful destruction of another's property", but would have silenced the damn thing, at least...

Regarding powerboats and generators, one really has to spend some time aboard some modern powerboats to fully appreciate how dependent they have become on AC power, and climate control... Many of the motor yachts and sportfishermen I run, there is virtually _no provision for natural ventilation whatsoever_, the lack of opening windows/ports/hatches is astonishing... They are simply not set up to live away from the dock, or absent the use of a generator... A few years ago, I was running a 56' Neptunus Fornicatorium like this one south during the summer when the AC unit failed. I had to sleep in the cockpit each night, the interior of the boat was totally uninhabitable, no way to make it so without AC...










Sadly, many modern sailboats are following this same trend, natural means of ventilation such as dorade vents are becoming extinct... The Trintella 50 I ran for years, sailing that boat offshore in warm weather, running the AC was pretty much a necessity, the lack of natural ventilation was appalling... Fortunately, the exhaust discharge for the generator on that boat was below the waterline, and would have been exceedingly quiet had the boat ever been in the midst of a peaceful anchorage, MUCH less obtrusive than an on-deck generator, "virtually silent", in fact... (grin)

Go to a place like Newfoundland, and trust me, you won't have to deal with this sort of annoyance... And those with generators, will be free to run them to your heart's content...


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## Rick486 (Sep 14, 2010)

There are generators, then there are generators. And they are not all the same. The worst case is a power boat with a portable generator. Never anchor or moor close by. Why? Because they must run the generator, which can be heard 100's of yards away, to make coffee in the morning and cook food at the dinner hour, having AC appliances only. Most below decks generators with wet exhausts can be heard maybe 100 ft away if one happens to be on the same side as the exhaust, and the sound is typically soft splashing of exhaust water and no diesel exhaust sounds at all. Actually less noise than a sailboat running their main engine to charge batts or heat water in the early morning or evening. I have also witnessed what seems to be "generator envy or resentment" where boat owners will be complaining about generator sounds which are barely audible or not at all. I have a generator aboard below decks which we typically run around 0800 for charge and hot water for showers, and around 1700 for same. The exhaust is midship on the starboard side and the exhaust is wet with a water lift type muffler. It is not audible in the quietest anchorages from anywhere on the port side, or forward and aft of the boat. Soft splashing can be heard from maybe 100 ft on the starboard side. Very much different from the portable gasoline generators which are audible for great distances in any direction. One of the posts above mentioned wind generators. To me these are more disturbing in a breeze than any but the loudest portable generators because most people run the damned things all night. "...whop whop whop....." at 0200. Arrgghhh.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Rick486 said:


> There are generators, then there are generators. And they are not all the same.
> 
> One of the posts above mentioned wind generators. To me these are more disturbing in a breeze than any but the loudest portable generators because most people run the damned things all night. "...whop whop whop....." at 0200. Arrgghhh.


And, there are wind generators, and then there are wind generators... And they are not all the same...

Some - most notably the D 400 - are so quiet, as to be almost spooky... If there is sufficient breeze to be spinning one, there is no way some brands will be heard from a neighboring boat, anchored at a reasonable distance...


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

Rick486 said:


> I have also witnessed what seems to be "generator envy or resentment" where boat owners will be complaining about generator sounds which are barely audible or not at all.


"Generator envy", that's a new one, Rick.  It gives me the notion of a back packer reaching a summit, then envying a guy in a Hummer that drove up.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Hmmm: Evidence that wind generators are totally noiseless?

Wind turbine sickness 'all in the mind': study


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## Rick486 (Sep 14, 2010)

TomMaine said:


> "Generator envy", that's a new one, Rick.  It gives me the notion of a back packer reaching a summit, then envying a guy in a Hummer that drove up.


Good analogy Tom. Of course, there's also "...ice cream..." envy I've also witnessed which sometimes accompanies "..generator resentment...".


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

i have wind generator envy--but only because i want to be able to , in windy , wet times, be able to hold these incredible conversations with my imaginary (cyber) friends......

i only get ice cube envy on 110+ days with high humidity.....i have not owned nor used a cooling device for foods since 1990......


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

While I am sensitive to not wanting to bother neighbors, this is probably why I don't fully understand the venom over a quiet Honda gen. My son and I have camped at this fly in (OshKosh) for many many years. Its the largest general aviation fly-in in the world and all those planes near the runways are camping under their wings. Approx 10,000 planes all come together for one week. Generators run in about half the camp sites, and airplanes scream over head every few minutes.

Some people are just noise wussies........


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## misfits (Dec 9, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> While I am sensitive to not wanting to bother neighbors, this is probably why I don't fully understand the venom over a quiet Honda gen. My son and I have camped at this fly in (OshKosh) for many many years. Its the largest general aviation fly-in in the world and all those planes near the runways are camping under their wings. Approx 10,000 planes all come together for one week. Generators run in about half the camp sites, and airplanes scream over head every few minutes.
> 
> Some people are just noise wussies........


Pretty impressive!


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> I don't fully understand the venom over a quiet Honda gen. ]


I think they probably are quiet when first purchased. But they become louder with use. Like my new portable freezer. I could never hear it in a silent anchorage at night now when it's the other end of the boat it can wake me immediately.

Do engines get louder with use?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> ....Do engines get louder with use?


Mufflers certainly wear out.


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## ftldiver (Sep 9, 2002)

I guess my honda 2000 still new. I don't think its loud at all. 

and the fly-in is kinda like the race track. noise is expected. nobody thinks twice about running a gen-set.

smell and fumes are one thing, but a constant drone of a genny doesn't bother me. loud music, and slapping halyards drive me nuts... 


-and don't even think about doing real damage to a generator in Fla. you'll get shot...


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## benesailor (Dec 27, 2012)

I completely understand the use of generators to charge up. Not opposed or in favor of per se. I understand the fumes. 
On the other hand; when those wind generators are going non stop it's a different story. Some models have a definite thump to them. 

Then again; i'm an early riser and for some reason i always get comments when i'm cooking loads of bacon at 6 am. I think the older folks are envious!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

ftldiver said:


> ......and the fly-in is kinda like the race track. noise is expected. nobody thinks twice about running a gen-set.
> 
> smell and fumes are one thing, but a constant drone of a genny doesn't bother me. loud music, and slapping halyards drive me nuts.....


You're right about the anticipated noise. I went and looked up the hours of operation during the show, which are 6am to 8pm. It is probably more to avoid night operations, with tens of thousands of people camped within a hundred yards of the runway, than for noise. Gensets keep running and it is easy to sleep through. Maybe its relative. I still think pilots are just a heartier and more adaptable bunch. 

You are so right about slapping halyards and music. Add those to squeaky wind gens and you are really onto the most common annoyances.


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## olddog60 (Oct 20, 2011)

U can anchor up wind of me anytime. Bacon , coffee at the same time. I 'll be right over.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

My Biggest issue with fumes... I have crohnes disease and Diesel fumes tend to cramp me up and send me scurrying to the head. It's gotten better over the years.. but prolonged exposure can really do a number on me


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

It's interesting to hear people say they NEED a generator to run all the things they NEED.
Before spending $1500 on a generator to run an air conditioner, why not spend $300 on high CFM fans, LED lighting and a windscoop and then sleep naked on top of the sheets?

Yeah, i know, I know, there's all that sticky humidity and still air and... your grandparents didn't have air conditioning- are you saying they really were right, they were tougher than you whippersnappers?

BTW, I am surprised this thread hasn't ended up in off-topic yet.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

honestly.. I never use airconditioning. Not at home, and not in the car.. and I have seen 100 degrees in the house


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

bljones said:


> ...Yeah, i know, I know, there's all that sticky humidity and still air and... your grandparents didn't have air conditioning- are you saying they really were right, they were tougher than you whippersnappers?


They didn't have polio vaccine either, but would have taken it in a heartbeat had it existed. Just like air conditioning.



> BTW, I am surprised this thread hasn't ended up in off-topic yet.


I haven't seen it wander off the OP much at all. Etiquette of generators in crowded places. Discussing whether one needs one at all seems fair game.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

Honestly, you're body can acclimate to the heat, just as it does to the chill of winter (maybe not freezing weather.. but after a few weeks, does well in colder temps) you just need to be around and in it all the time.

I will admit, that being 6 foot and 170 pounds is a big help too


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

Wishful thinking:


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

my maine **** mix does not acclimate to humid heat well. he melts. 
i use marina and air conditioning for the hot season for him. 
this summer i want to find a colorful multi-use kitty pool for him....he doesnt mind water as long as it has a purpose.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

flyingwelshman said:


> Wishful thinking:


1. I've never heard one that loud in my lifetime. If that's what everyone is talking about, I get it.

2. Be careful who you fire upon. Just read any "gun thread" here. Some of us can unload a hell storm in return.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> Some of us can unload a hell storm in return.


Only if you can hear the first salvo over your generator, and/or manage to drag your ass away from the tv and out of your air conditioned cabin.

Yeah, I like the odds.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> 1. I've never heard one that loud in my lifetime.


Poetic license.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

bljones said:


> Only if you can hear the first salvo over your generator, and/or manage to drag your ass away from the tv and out of your air conditioned cabin.
> 
> Yeah, I like the odds.


No TV or air conditioning at anchor. Beware. I'm charging batts.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

everyone is is aware risk of freezing to death and turns up the heat but less sensitivity to equal health risks of overheating. Have AC in saloon. Will only run it to get rid of humidity. Sweating doesn't work to cool you when it gets really humid and I haven't figured out how to safely sleep in the water. Think current crop of wind generators a lot less noisy than gensets even in a sound box. Have ac in the house as well goes on 1 or 2 days a year.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

outbound said:


> everyone is is aware risk of freezing to death and turns up the heat but less sensitivity to equal health risks of overheating. Have AC in saloon. Will only run it to get rid of humidity. Sweating doesn't work to cool you when it gets really humid and I haven't figured out how to safely sleep in the water. Think current crop of wind generators a lot less noisy than gensets even in a sound box. Have ac in the house as well goes on 1 or 2 days a year.


Sweating does help to cool you. People that dont sweat are the ones I worry about. I worked in hot kitchens (110 degrees in front of ovens and stoves at the beginning of my carrer and you do aclimate and do sweat. Even though its less effective in higher humidity as was mentioned it will still work to cool you unless the relative hudity is 100%. People who live in areas like Maine who are not accilmative to hot temperatures usually have a difficult probelm with hot weather initiially, be eventually their body adjusts. To running a dehumidifer would actually have more effect and be better for you than an air conditioner. It is also a well know fact the older you become the less effective your body is in terms of regulating heat. A fan blowing across you will in fact help with surface evaoporation which is what cools you.

Using a generator to use an air conditioner to maintain a 75 degree cabin is a personal choice, I have no problem with it and may have done it, but I would try to never endanger the health of the people down wind of me by spewing fumes from a generator and would practice courtesy as was mentioned all throughout the thread.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

bljones said:


> and... your grandparents didn't have air conditioning-


My (and probably your) grandparents never had internet or forums like this either. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be here.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Omatako said:


> My (and probably your) grandparents never had internet or forums like this either. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be here.


We WANT to be here, we don't NEED to be here.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Agree with H. Run AC for 1/2h before dusk on rare occasion and attend to others around you. You can jump in the water during the day.

Have plumbing for genset. Didn't put it in. Hope to get by without it.Wonder if some smart engineer will come up with a micro-diesel turbine or something. Hopefully more efficient ( gensets are fuel hogs when viewed in terms of energy produced) and quieter with less need for maintenance.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

outbound said:


> ......Wonder if some smart engineer will come up with a micro-diesel turbine or something. Hopefully more efficient ( gensets are fuel hogs when viewed in terms of energy produced) and quieter with less need for maintenance.


Seems possible:

Volvo Plans Hydrogen Generators for Boats Kiss Diesel and Gas | BoatTEST.com


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

WOW- Thanks Minnie. ?are these on the market yet. Sounds to good to be true


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

outbound said:


> WOW- Thanks Minnie. ?are these on the market yet. Sounds to good to be true


I believe they are. Fuel is expensive and must be shipped to you.


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## olddog60 (Oct 20, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Seems possible:
> 
> Volvo Plans Hydrogen Generators for Boats Kiss Diesel and Gas | BoatTEST.com





Minnewaska said:


> I believe they are. Fuel is expensive and must be shipped to you.


That article was dated 2009. You would think some one would be pushing this technology if it were available.


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