# Pearson 30 vs. Cape Dory 25D?



## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

Different boats for certain... I'm looking for a weekender for my family of four. I grew up sailiing a Cape Dory Typhoon and raced (crewed) Lightnings and O'Day Mariners when I was in high school. I've located a sweet CD 25D and probably 2 Pearson 30s (1977 and a 1978) - seeing them both today -- maybe down to one... or none after taking a look 

Full keel vs fin becomes a stability/comfort thing -- important for my young family. No plans to race -- mostly day sailing and occasional weekends. Comfort is important (I'm 6'2" -- both CD 25D and P30 have standing head room and the P30 has a vberth for my 2 young girls.) 

Thoughts on build quality? General thoughts on these two boats? 

Read some critical reviews on boatus.com by Jack Horner regarding thru-hulls on the P30. The CD 25D gets kudos in John Vigor's "25 Boats...."

Comments/thoughts welcomed. The P30 is a bigger boat... does greater length = greater comfort? (loaded question - not always).

Thanks in advance. New on this board and have read a lot of good insight into other inquiries.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

Your sailing area would be helpful info in choosing a boat. Also, when you say weekender, do you mean on the hook or at the dock? Are you looking at these two models because of availablity, or is it what you've found that you like? And lastly, what are you looking to spend (possibly germaine to the previous question?)?

From what you've posted, I would lean toward the Pearson. Though it would seem you have an affinity for the Cape Dory. 5 feet is a whole lot more room on a boat, especially with children, as it can give a sense of privacy/seperation over a weekend. Regarding the Pearson, if there was a problem with the thru-hulls, it has quite likely been taken care of by now. There are though, a number of other makes that might suit as well, if not better.

Regards,


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

The Cape Dory is a much smaller boat than a P30, I would assume about 50% of the interior space. It should have a better fit/finish as the high cost has to reflect something...however the fit and finish of a P30 are OK. If you pursue the Cape Dory, be sure to spend 30 mintues down below with the entire family, I would think that would eliminate the CD, the V bearth is usually the getaway spot. Do you want to spend the weekend four people in a pup tent, or in a four person tent? ....the real issue for me relative to the CD 25 is the weak sailing performance, the P30 has a PHRF of 174 versus 252 for the Cape Dory. You will spend less time sailing with a CD, more powering...If you want the pleasures of a classical mini-yacht, the CD seems a good choice.
For what you want to do, I would recommend you also look at the Catalina 30 which is a great family boat. The Tartan 30 and C&C 30 are perfoance classical of that period and highly recomended - here's what I think is an wonderful example of such 
http://web.mac.com/bicgreen1/iWeb/Site/Home.html


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## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

Sailing area would be the LI Sound. I'm thinking most overnights on the hook vs a marina (marinas, for me, are too much like cramped, commercial campgrounds -- fun for some, but I much prefer the quiet sound of water against the hull vs listening to someone else's cd player). 

I agree that 5ft is a huge difference and the lack of a vberth is a potential issue. My kids (7 and 11) already have it figured out that it's their space, so if I end up with a CD....


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## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

sailingfool said:


> The Cape Dory is a much smaller boat than a P30, I would assume about 50% of the interior space. It should have a better fit/finish as the high cost has to reflect something...however the fit and finish of a P30 are OK. If you pursue the Cape Dory, be sure to spend 30 mintues down below with the entire family, I would think that would eliminate the CD, the V bearth is usually the getaway spot. Do you want to spend the weekend four people in a pup tent, or in a four person tent? ....the real issue for me relative to the CD 25 is the weak sailing performance, the P30 has a PHRF of 174 versus 252 for the Cape Dory. You will spend less time sailing with a CD, more powering...If you want the pleasures of a classical mini-yacht, the CD seems a good choice.
> For what you want to do, I would recommend you also look at the Catalina 30 which is a great family boat. The Tartan 30 and C&C 30 are perfoance classical of that period and highly recomended - here's what I think is an wonderful example of such
> http://web.mac.com/bicgreen1/iWeb/Site/Home.html


Great thoughts. I'll be certain to check out the Tartan and C&C. I've always equated Tartans with being more performance oriented (at least in the case of the Tartan 10). Of course, I've never sailed one either.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

I might also recommend that you go to yachtworld.com. You can place in the parameters you want (price, length, etc.) and come up with a broad spectrum of boats so that you can do some comparison shopping, so to speak.

Also, you might want to just "walk the docks", and get an idea of what others are sailing in the area.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

*performance - yes*



CLucas said:


> Great thoughts. I'll be certain to check out the Tartan and C&C. I've always equated Tartans with being more performance oriented (at least in the case of the Tartan 10). Of course, I've never sailed one either.


CLucas,
You are correct that Tartan (and C&C) are more performance oriented - but you don't really give up any cruising comforts for the performance, plus as these boats age, the price premiums of a Tartan or C&C largely dissapear into the differences related to condition/equipment.

I guess what I just don't get, relative to discussions about various sailboats, is why the ability to sail to windward in a breeze, like a freight train, with a smile on your face and a light hand on the helm, isn't the first consideration in selecting a boat...i guess to each their own


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Also, IIRC, the Pearson 30 is a fin keel, the CD 25D is a full-keel. Totally different types of boats... I think it is more important that you figure out what kind of sailing you want to do, and then look at boats that are suitable for it... rather than looking at boats blindly.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

For Long Island sound the Pearson is the far better family boat. In addition to the other boats suggested, I'd also look at the Hunters of the same era as they were decently built and roomy like the Catalina.


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## rtbates (Jan 30, 2007)

Apples and oranges. The 25D is a perfect TWO person boat, bullet proof, has bronze and glass opening ports, full keel , bronze seacocks and it's drop dead gorgeous. It can be trailered to CA and sailed across the Pacific. The Pearson has more room, it ain't bullet proof, has alum & plastic ports, most don't open, a fin keel, and and it's looks are Ok. 

Randy Cape Dory 25D Seraph,


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Of course, Randy might be a bit biased IMHO...  

I'm going to throw another possibility out there... the Alberg 30... it is about the same size interior wise as the Pearson, but is a full-keel, very stable design, much like the Cape Dory 25D, by the same designer—Carl Alberg. Another possible choice is the Cape Dory 30... also, an Alberg designed boat IIRC.  I prefer the Alberg 30 over the CD30 for one reason...tiller steering. The CD30 has wheel steering..


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## rtbates (Jan 30, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Of course, Randy might be a bit biased IMHO...
> 
> I'm going to throw another possibility out there... the Alberg 30... it is about the same size interior wise as the Pearson, but is a full-keel, very stable design, much like the Cape Dory 25D, by the same designer-Carl Alberg. Another possible choice is the Cape Dory 30... also, an Alberg designed boat IIRC.


You better know I'm biased toward Cape Dory. Having had my 25D out in 45kts and seeing how she handled it, I was sold on the full keel, narrow hull. That day when it was still only blowing 25-30 I beat both a Benatua sp? 32 and a Hunter 30 to windward by quite a bit. And here's the shocker, they were both using their main and headsail, while I only had my 130 headsail out. And it gets better, they were heading in (too much wind coming they said later). I headed back out and had a heyday. All in my little 25D. And they were both fully crewed, I was singlehanding!

All of Carl Alberg's designs are boats I'd own. He knew how to draw a very seakindly hull.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

rtbates said:


> .....only blowing 25-30 I beat both a Benatua sp? 32 and a Hunter 30 to windward by quite a bit. And here's the shocker, they were both using their main and headsail, while I only had my 130 headsail out. .......All of Carl Alberg's designs are boats I'd own. He knew how to draw a very seakindly hull.


I guess every dog has its day, or moment anyway.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

rtbates said:


> The 25D is a perfect TWO person boat


While not to dispute the qualities of the CD, they did say a Family of Four, for weekending.


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## mgiguere (May 22, 2004)

*Windy Days*

As I recall, LI sound has many more light air days than breezy days. CD is an ocean going vessel...and you're not really in the open ocean. P30 is a real good Chevy...but I would take the rest of winter and check out S&S boats like the Tartan 30 or the C&C 30 (I know not an S&S, but great boat nonetheless). This would put you in the "Buick" level.

Moe


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## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

*So if a P30 is a "real good Chevy"...*



mgiguere said:


> As I recall, LI sound has many more light air days than breezy days. CD is an ocean going vessel...and you're not really in the open ocean. P30 is a real good Chevy...but I would take the rest of winter and check out S&S boats like the Tartan 30 or the C&C 30 (I know not an S&S, but great boat nonetheless). This would put you in the "Buick" level.
> 
> Moe


..what is a Catalina... or a Hunter? Not looking for an answer, but go ahead if you feel like chiming in . Good advice and comments all -- I'm probably a bit biased myself towards CD's since that was what I grew up sailing. Stiff as a church but definitely not breaking any speed records. Checked out a squeaky clean CD 25D last weekend -- way too tight for my wife and two young girls. A clean CD 30 is out of my budget.

Looking at 2 comparable P30s - same vintage, *similarly* but not identically equipped -- one with tiller steering and one w/wheel for starters. Of the two, the one with tiller steering has an issue that I believe is resolvable (found someone on this board who went thru this issue - see http://list.sailnet.net/read/messages?id=247108)... Deck around the mast step is slightly depressed (not cracked) - probably a little more than a 1/4", if that. Below, the head liner above the compression post is cracked, as is the hull liner near where the compression post is glassed into the keel (the latter is a 3" vertical crack in the hull liner on the small step going into the head). The base of the compression post (oak), where it is glassed into the keel, is damp and a bit soft (maybe the bottom 3/4"). The boat is wet-stored, and otherwise is bone dry. While I would get it repaired right away, I'm not seeing it as a reason to walk (or run..) away, but instead view as something that I'll factor into my offer should I decide to move ahead. (Ultimately, I'll defer to my surveyor.)

Thoughts?


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

CLucas said:


> ......Looking at 2 comparable P30s ....Deck around the mast step is slightly depressed (not cracked) - probably a little more than a 1/4", if that. Below, the head liner above the compression post is cracked, as is the hull liner near where the compression post is glassed into the keel (the latter is a 3" vertical crack in the hull liner on the small step going into the head). The base of the compression post (oak), where it is glassed into the keel, is damp and a bit soft (maybe the bottom 3/4"). The boat is wet-stored, and otherwise is bone dry. While I would get it repaired right away, I'm not seeing it as a reason to walk (or run..) away, but instead view as something that I'll factor into my offer should I decide to move ahead. (Ultimately, I'll defer to my surveyor.)
> 
> Thoughts?


Not a good sign to have the bottom of the compression post wet and rotting. My advice would be to get a written repair estimate from a qualified firm (or get the estimates that seller probably already has...) so that if its too large you don't have to walk away from the cost of the survey. My bet would be that the seller is hoping somebody will take this problem off his/her hands...The surveyor is not likely to estimate the cost of a repair.


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## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

sailingfool said:


> Not a good sign to have the bottom of the compression post wet and rotting. My advice would be to get a written repair estimate from a qualified firm (or get the estimates that seller probably already has...) so that if its too large you don't have to walk away from the cost of the survey. My bet would be that the seller is hoping somebody will take this problem off his/her hands...The surveyor is not likely to estimate the cost of a repair.


The broker is also the dock master where the boat currently resides -- his facility is 100% sail and he claims to have a guy who can do the work there (I haven't checked him out and wouldn't go that route until I saw some of his work or got references). Other work I would have done before taking ownership includes replacing some of the thru-hulls (it's a 1977 hull and some have gate valves which were standard on some Pearsons -- at least one is corroded) and hoses coming off the thru-hulls. Good idea to get a few estimates before making an offer and paying for a survey. If the broker's guy is any good, I could also make my offer conditional on those items being fully repaired.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

CLucas said:


> The broker is also the dock master.... If the broker's guy is any good, I could also make my offer conditional on those items being fully repaired.


You of couerse need to be sensitive to the fact that the broker has a vested interest in seeing that no obstacles arise relative to the sale of the vessel. You might be wise to bring in an outsider, say from another area yard where you could have the work done, to estimates the repairs. I think any actual repair of a boat structure routinely exceeds the best of estimates (double it is my guideline), but if the yard has its own interest in it, watch out.

If the estimates don't send you elsewhere, then the surveyor can advise on whether the estimates cover the approach he/she recommends.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

In their used boat buying guide, Practical Sailor suggests that the Pearson 30 is a good light-air boat. If you plan on weekending in LIS in the summer, that is what you will need. The additional length will also extend your range and so be able to get you to more places. Hitting the same ports every time because the others are "too far" gets old very quickly. If you have growing childen, this is particularly true. The Pearson's cockpit is also big enough to be comfortable, especially if you can lift the tiller up at anchor. CD's have a reputation for solidity, which is great if you've got 25 knot breezes to deal with. That doesn't happen much on LIS, and motoring is getting more expensive all the time.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The Cape Dory 25d is a nice little boat for those who want a traditional style. It's very well set up,considering how small it is, for a couple to cruise. I don't know how you could make it work for 4, even if 2 are children. The P30 will sail circles around a Cape Dory, however, while it's very responsive, its also a very tender boat and may not be a good choice for relaxed family cruising. I would think that for a family of 4 you would want at least a 28 foot boat. in addition to some of the other boats mentioned, the Sabre 28 is a very well made boat with enough room for two adults and two children, relatively stiff comfotable sailboat. Jim L


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## sidney777 (Jul 14, 2001)

The pearson 30 has a 25 ft waterline and the Cape Dory is SLOW, Slow, and very,very narrow down below. The Head area on Pearson large-- from one side of boat to other(comfortable)-head on Cape dory; well you know!
I love Cape Dories, but only if i could afford to buy a 30ft or larger, or Typhoon for day sailing.
I bet your wife & kids will love the Pearson & you too.


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## rtbates (Jan 30, 2007)

PBzeer said:


> While not to dispute the qualities of the CD, they did say a Family of Four, for weekending.


Exactly why I said it was a boat for TWO.


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## Dileo (Mar 12, 2007)

Dear CLucas,

I think I can truly understand your situation and what kind of a boat you are looking for. I have a 9 yr. old daughter and safety is a BIG concern for me and my family. AND, I own a 1977 Pearson 30. I sail off of LA and Long Beach Harbor in California where the Westerly winds in the summer are routinely 15-20kts. I've also experience a 45 kt. Santa Ana "Wind Event" that came out of nowhere. I've sailed to Catalina twice (about 25 miles of open water) in 20-25kts of wind with 5-7 foot swells. The Pearson 30 is a VERY good boat. It will handle a lot more than we would ever care to. It's more than a 1/4" of hand laid glass on the hull. It's got a fairly deep keel and good amount of ballast for her size that will keep you tracking just fine, even in a breeze. She is a VERY nimble boat and will do exactly what you want it to do. She points better than ANY boat I have been on (Catalina, Columbia, Hunter, Oday) and will beat the pants off of a lot of other boats her size. Just last Saturday in 15 kts apparent I was going to weather with 7 kts of true boat speed WITH A 95% JIB!! 

She IS tippy and will heel on you, but this boat also has the LEAST amount of weather helm than any boat I've ever experienced. If the heel is too much for your family, you can always reef or even dump the main (is happy on just headsail alone) and you'll be more than comfortable. I replaced all through hulls on mine with ball valve sea cocks and backing plates. I did this just because they had never been replaced. Depending on what year you look at (the later P30's didn't have this problem) but there was a problem with their aluminum rudder bearings on the earlier models. Otherwise, whatever the surveyor says (which I STRONGLY recommend doing). Don't let one badly kept up P30, turn you off from this WONDERFUL boat.

If you do decide on the P30 (the interior room of which will be FINE for your family) you will love the way she sails and will be very proud to own her. Even when I sail on these sllek, modern boats, as nice as they are, I still love my Pearson 30. I've put a LOT into mine, just because I don't feel like having any other boat. 

Good Luck!


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