# wood mast



## kennyarmes (Dec 9, 2006)

can anyone tell me the difference between a wooden mast and an alluminum in mast? which is better what is the pros and cons to wood versus a aluminum mast? I am thinking of buying another sailboat and it has a wooden mast.the boat would be used for off shore any advice would be appreciated


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Well, for starters, you can't varnish aluminium..


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Wooden masts require a lot of maintenance and there are only a handful of people who are really qualified to inspect them. Wether they are suitable really depends on the boat, and the requirements of the owner. 

Frankly I wouldn't consider a wood mast, not because they can't work, but because I don't want to have to do all the maintenance required to own one. Constant varnishing of the wood gets tiresome while hanging in a bosun's chair, and painting a wooden mast is poor practice because it can hide rot.


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## kennyarmes (Dec 9, 2006)

Thanks for the wise advice what about replacing the wooden mast with an aluminium mast would it be cost efficient


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

what size boat. any where from 15K to 30K for a new mast, is the boat worth that much. and I love the term cost efficient when talking about boats. and then I just used them in the same sentence.


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## unimacs (Sep 6, 2013)

I'm thinking if the boat has a wooden mast it's either a very old boat or wood was a very deliberate choice. Not that you couldn't replace it with aluminum but that might significantly detract from the character of the boat.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Making a swap is a pretty expensive job. None of the fittings are the same, so you have to buy the new mast, all the standing rigging, and possibly new chainplates. For many older boats a broken mast means the boat is totaled because the cost of replacing it is more than the value of the boat. 

Before I did anything I would talk to a local rigger about replacement costs, and if a used mast can be locally sourced.


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## Jaramaz (Aug 9, 2013)

Stumble said:


> Wooden masts require a lot of maintenance and there are only a handful of people who are really qualified to inspect them. Wether they are suitable really depends on the boat, and the requirements of the owner.
> 
> Frankly I wouldn't consider a wood mast, not because they can't work, but because I don't want to have to do all the maintenance required to own one. Constant varnishing of the wood gets tiresome while hanging in a bosun's chair, and painting a wooden mast is poor practice because it can hide rot.


No, no, that is not how it is done.

Mast is annualy un-stepped. Strip off all loose things. 
In spring, sand, and varnish. Piece of cake.

Been sailing with wooden mast for many years. No problems.

This about qualified to inspect. Hmpf! You use your eyes. Simple. Wooden masts have been used for thousands of years, Alu masts for some decades.

The advantage with a Alu mast is the lack of maintenance, just clean it now and then. Som put on some wax or similar, which is disputable. Alu mast can take higher loads as well, but then loads are to be taken by the wires.

If you like the boat, wooden or alu mast doesn't matter.

/J


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Had a wooden mast and boom on a tayana 37 years ago. Agree with above you cannot do a decent job of maintenance without unstepping the mast. Real issue for me was finding good days weather wise to work on the mast/boom when I wasn't working. Agree it's not rocket science. I used epiphanies and once you have the thing up to snuff then annual maintenance was not hard. Make sure the yard will either allow you space inside or at least space outside out of the wind to work on it. Other issue for me was mast was rectangular in cross section so I needed help rotating it when working on it. Finally found after wood was finished using butyl tape tightly trimmed under fittings made a world of difference. Wood will expand/contract/work under load whereas the fitting won't. My mast was an empty box inside but fortunately was finished inside when constructed. I never had to do anything to the inside. It was made of very long strips of wood well overlapped over quite a distance so truly looked like it was one piece. It survived multiple Bermuda trips so if your is well made you should have no strength concerns. If you let it go for even one season its a total bear to get back in shape. If there is any rot it can be "Dutchman"ed back into shape but it not a job most amateurs can do. Hope that helps your decision.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

good trick I found is given I wasn't going for the perfect, bristol fashion varnish job I never sanded much. rather just used a really sharp scraper and compressed air between coats.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

if you listen to the Pardey's. stuffing a wooden mast full of crinkled up aluminium foil makes it into a -very- nice radar reflector


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

I loved my spruce herreshof masts...wooden boats are living beings someone told me once...jaja

depends on what boat the mast is on, but wooden masts do have some benefits, for one they are able to tolerate more "felxiness" they tell you when they hurt(kidding) and look beatiful when maintained

loosey goosey on standing rigging on most wooden masts for sure

I forget what design herreshoff began with wooden masts but I beleive its was a boxed spliced frame method of construction where basically the mast is scarfed in 2 or 3 or 4 places and also tapered...

I epoxied and varnished my masts before setting on a long cruise and had to do NOTHING to them for 5 years...the reason they lasted so much was cause I stripped them and fixed everything that needed attention which included scarfing in new wood at some places and completely epoxing the masts in west systems like 5 times before applying 10 coats or so of heavy uv protected varnish....for a while there was a trend of modern glass hulls and light wooden masts on some boats...

cheoy lees did it for a looooong time...

cheers


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

mad_machine said:


> if you listen to the Pardey's. stuffing a wooden mast full of crinkled up aluminium foil makes it into a -very- nice radar reflector


I should of done that!


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

christian.hess said:


> I epoxied and varnished my masts before setting on a long cruise and had to do NOTHING to them for 5 years...the reason they lasted so much was cause I stripped them and fixed everything that needed attention which included scarfing in new wood at some places and completely epoxing the masts in west systems like 5 times before applying 10 coats or so of heavy uv protected varnish....for a while there was a trend of modern glass hulls and light wooden masts on some boats...


Wooden masts certainly look nicer varnished, but, as advocated by Hiscocks during their multiple world tours and something I can attest to, there's absolutely nothing wrong with painting the mast (white) instead of varnishing it. This pushes the "annual" maintenance out to 3-5 years by reducing solar heating of the timber and glues underneath.

Of course this only works for Bermudan-rigged boats.. if you have a gaffer you're kinda stuck with either a hard-wearing spar varnish or an oil - for the working part of the mast anyways.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

well I had a lovely h28 being young and romantic varnish was the only way to go...and I paid for it with my sweaty labor jeje

I thought about pianting the tips like some schooners and east coast boats do but hey...you only live once right? jajaja

very true about the paint I loved cream colored masts they looked very nice too


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

My Dad had several wooden sailboats. The one pictured is virtually identical to the last one he had. IIRC, it had a solid wood mast about 8" in diameter at the base. He also built an International Star Class boat with a boxed mast of Spruce, a piece of wooden artwork.

The thing I remember most about wooden boats is sand, varnish, & paint. Our last boat had an aluminum mast & glass hull. We spent way more time sailing it than polishing it. Aluminum doesn't rot. 

Paul T


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

kennyarmes said:


> can anyone tell me the difference between a wooden mast and an alluminum in mast? which is better what is the pros and cons to wood versus a aluminum mast? I am thinking of buying another sailboat and it has a wooden mast.the boat would be used for off shore any advice would be appreciated


Wooden spars take more maintenance than aluminum. How much work that is, depends on how experienced you are with those requirements. I don't find the maintenance of 2 spruce spars and booms that daunting but I'm familiar with the process.

Unless you want to get involved in learning the systems required, wood(boats, spars) isn't a good choice. I'd pass on that boat on the spars alone, if I were you. There's a lot out there for sale.

If you have a professional yard service and maintain a good sized spruce spar and boom(say around 50'), you should allow at least a couple-three hundred dollars into the yearly costs averaged over 10 years.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

dabnis said:


> The thing I remember most about wooden boats is sand, varnish, & paint. Our last boat had an aluminum mast & glass hull. We spent way more time sailing it than polishing it. Aluminum doesn't rot.


True enough..

..but as you said yourself, it's not a piece of artwork either.


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Classic30 said:


> True enough..
> 
> ..but as you said yourself, it's not a piece of artwork either.


How true, I remember my Dads Star boat deck, 1" laminated alternate dark & light strips, stem to stern, curved to match the gunwale profile, absolutely beautiful.

I suppose if one has/wants an "original" classic wooden boat, it has to have a wooden mast. 

Cant get pics to upload:

Paul Thomas's (ptnt11085)'s Library | Photobucket

Boat picture is of a virtually identical boat we had when I was about 10 years old, on San Francisco bay, about 1945

Paul T


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

If you have a wooden mast it should not be painted, but should be varnished. Paint hides any problem areas - wet wood or rot. Paint hides it until it is too late. There is really no such thing as a no maintenance wooden mast. They deserve close inspection annually.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

What you could do is paint the mast to look like wood. The maintenance of aluminum with the look of wood - best of both worlds.

mast_zps07ea761e.jpg Photo by mitiempo1 | Photobucket

The mast in this link is actually a work of art in carbon fibre but the same applies to aluminum.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

mitiempo said:


> If you have a wooden mast it should not be painted, but should be varnished. Paint hides any problem areas - wet wood or rot. Paint hides it until it is too late. There is really no such thing as a no maintenance wooden mast. They deserve close inspection annually.


Brian, as a perfectly satisfied Painted Wooden Mast (PWM) owner, I respectfully disagree... as does Eric Hiscock (of "Cruising Under Sail" and "Voyaging Under Sail" fame) and, IIRC, Donald Street and countless other wooden boat owners of all types and varieties - just look for the white mast cap and ask aboard. ..but then maybe you don't live under an ozone hole as some of us do. 

Sure, you should check it occasionally and get onto any issues promptly, just as you should a mast of any manufacture, however, built properly the first time around, there is no reason a wooden mast shouldn't be 'low maintenance' at least. Heck, my mast has been in my boat longer than most people on this forum have been alive.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Classic30 said:


> ..but then maybe you don't live under an ozone hole as some of us do.
> 
> Sure, you should check it occasionally....


Actually I live in B.C., Canada's wet coast, often under a rain cloud.

What I posted is advice I have read often. My mast is made of that newfangled material called aluminum as well as all my previous boat's masts.

I think many would agree that varnish allows easier inspection. And if epoxy treated before varnish that has good uv protection it would require less maintenance than varnish by itself.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Here's the pic of the painted mast I tried to upload earlier:



A faux painted mast, whether carbon fibre or aluminum can look pretty good I think.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

mitiempo said:


> Actually I live in B.C., Canada's wet coast, often under a rain cloud.
> 
> What I posted is advice I have read often. My mast is made of that newfangled material called aluminum as well as all my previous boat's masts.


It would appear, then, that what you have read doesn't stack up in practice.. for those of us not living under rot-inducing rain clouds.

Aluminium is good.. but, unlike wood, it does have a nasty habit of corroding around rivets of dissimilar metals (according to Murphy's Law, usually in places that aren't easy to get at) thus necessitating inspection at least bi-annually - or so I've read. 



mitiempo said:


> I think many would agree that varnish allows easier inspection. And if epoxy treated before varnish that has good uv protection it would require less maintenance than varnish by itself.


I'd agree with that 100%. Epoxy-treated and varnished looks stunning also.. but since it still suffers from the effects of solar heating as I mentioned previously, I think I'll stick to boring old Painted Wood.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

mitiempo said:


> A faux painted mast, whether carbon fibre or aluminum can look pretty good I think.


You think so?? I imagine that would be an absolute b**ch to repair if it got dinged or otherwise mis-handled. I can only guess what damage crusty old crane slings would do to that gleaming faux finish the first time it was lowered into the boat.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Classic30 said:


> You think so?? I imagine that would be an absolute b**ch to repair if it got dinged or otherwise mis-handled. I can only guess what damage crusty old crane slings would do to that gleaming faux finish the first time it was lowered into the boat.


I don't think they use "crusty old crane slings" to place anything on the boat that received the carbon fibre mast pictured below. It is the 100' schooner Summerwind, designed by John Alden and built in 1929. The carbon main mast is an inch under 97' tall and weighs 1837 lbs. The foremast is 84' 7" tall and weighs 1473 lbs. Total of the two is 3310 lbs. The previous wooden masts weighed a total of 7100 lbs. The new masts lowered her center of gravity 4 feet. They were built by GMT Composites.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Classic30 said:


> You think so?? I imagine that would be an absolute b**ch to repair if it got dinged or otherwise mis-handled. I can only guess what damage crusty old crane slings would do to that gleaming faux finish the first time it was lowered into the boat.


I don't think they use "crusty old crane slings" to place anything on the boat that received the carbon fibre mast pictured below. It is the 100' schooner Summerwind, designed by John Alden and built in 1929. The carbon main mast is an inch under 97' tall and weighs 1837 lbs. The foremast is 84' 7" tall and weighs 1473 lbs. Total of the two is 3310 lbs. The previous wooden masts weighed a total of 7100 lbs. The new masts lowered her center of gravity 4 feet. They were built by GMT Composites.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Here is Summerwind racing before the new masts were installed.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Nice!!! 

..but probably wayyy too much varnish for some.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Classic30 said:


> Nice!!!
> 
> ..but probably wayyy too much varnish for some.


Boy, I agree with that. I love my stainless handrails.

Sure nice to look at though.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

mitiempo said:


> Boy, I agree with that. I love my stainless handrails.
> 
> Sure nice to look at though.


That reminds me of Colin Mudie's famous quote (to which I wholeheartedly subscribe):

_"One day I shall have two boats exactly the same. I shall sail in one and look back at the other to extract the last ounce of pleasure from my labour. And if it happens that I cannot have two lovely boats and become bitter, I shall sail around in the ugliest of boats I can find, looking at everyone else's nice boat, whilst they have to avert their gaze from mine." _

..and as a naval architect, he should know. :laugher :laugher


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Are you saying my boat is ugly?

I have to admit this Mudie design is prettier than mine by a bit.

Used Colin Mudie, 53' Yacht, for Sale | Yachts For Sale | Yachthub



It's Sina, built by Noel Barrett for himself. I originally read about her in Steve Dashew's Cruising Encyclopedia. Worth looking at the listing - asking $600,000NZ
The bronze floors which most never see are a work of art as is the rest.



She is 19 years old and has seen a lot of miles - but it doesn't show!


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## Ishtime Sailor (Nov 19, 2013)

I'd take wooden spars over teak decks anyday. My last boat had both. Wooden mast are no big deal. Every year I had to get new registration stickers, I would strip off the hardware, lightly sand, and put on a couple of coats of Schooners varnish. The previous post is right, Epiphanes is a better varnish but it will break you. You'd be surprised at how much varnish a mast can take and either one will look good from 40 feet below anyway. Save the top shelf varnish for the details like cap rails, hand rails, coamings, and such. One thing I can say about wooden mast though, the SOBs are heavy. Real heavy.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Ishtime Sailor said:


> .......One thing I can say about wooden mast though, the SOBs are heavy. Real heavy.


Rubbish. Absolute bollocks.

The old-time masts might have been true telephone poles and has heavy as you describe, but a modern properly designed and constructed hollow timber mast constructed from first-quality spruce or Oregon need not weigh any more than its aluminium counterpart.

By way of example: My 40' long 1957-vintage mast can be carried quite easily by two people and is a true work of art in timber (although you'd probably need to be an engineer to appreciate that).


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

yes that is not a true statement for ALL wood masts, some are indeed heavy but its mostly the hardware that makes them extremely heavy not the wood itself

my ketch rigged h28 had all bornze hardware, tangs and really heft and strong hardware by merriman I beleive or h28 particular stuff...when stripped the masts were maybe a bit heavier than a comparable aluminum one...in fact on some types of boats and dinghies especially people have used light wood to save some weight over aluminum not on bigger boats but again depending on what exact boat we are talking about its the actuall standing rigging and hardware that make the masts heavier than normal...

when I had my h28(15 years ago) I could carry the mizzen mast by myself, it was the balancing that I needed help with...jejeje

cheers


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

Our spar, 50' long, is pretty heavy despite being hollow. As mentioned, a large portion of that weight is in the fittings. I've wooded this spar and was amazed how much weight I took off. The spruce boom doubles in weight when I replace the fittings.

One thing not mentioned is, my spars were built in 1960, and are all in near perfect condition. In fact, they look like new. That's 53 years of use. Not too many materials can say that.

I don't remove any major fittings to varnish the main mast. Resting it on the sail track on two horses, I can lightly sand and brush on a maintenance coat in 2-3 hours, a task I do once a year in the spring. I also don't tape anything, varnish is a decent sealer and is lapped over the edges of large fittings and goes right over small ones.

After wooding this spar myself, several years ago, I expect to get 15 years easily before it requires wooding again. It's a wonderful piece of workmanship that's worth preserving. Besides, here in Maine, wooden spars and their care are quite common.

It was a family ritual in the spring that my family of four would roll the spar from it's outside storage area to our launch site. A couple years ago I started splurging on inside storage for the spar. I still store the boat outside, but having the yard put it away for the winter is a real treat, and not that costly.

I do miss the family springtime ritual of "driving the spar" to the hoist.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Righto.. Having pointed out all the good bits, all I can say that's *bad * about a wooden mast is that I, personally, would not ever want to have to buy a new one.

Given (a) that a hollow mast is very often a true work of art in design and (b) that both the timber quality and the workmanship required to put the whole thing together is extremely scarce these days, I imagine I could buy at least ten factory-formed, ordinary, boring aluminium masts, fully fitted out, for the price of the one wooden one I have!


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