# Bareboat Charters Dumb Question Perhaps



## 82Venture22 (Dec 8, 2006)

I have a question about these bareboat charters.

I am a very novice sailor. I have been sailing for about four years mostly Macgregors (I don't want to hear wise cracks about macs please). 

I'm now in a 2006 Hunter 27 this is my first year in this boat. 

I have the water craft safety card and I just finished the CYA Basic course last summer taught on a 42 foot hunter. I took this for no other reason then to be able to charter a boat on a trip like Greece the British Virgin Islands by myself with out any staff on board. 

I go to these boat shows and I am facinated that these bareboat sailing charters seem to care nothing about my boating experience. All they seem to care about is that I have "some" sailing experience or at least the safety card. With this they will allow me to charter a boat by myself up to 50 feet?? How can that be?

I am sure that I can sail a boat in the 30ish feet area but anything bigger I worry more about docking and crashing then sailing. Is there a catch to all this ? 

Someone told me they will challenge my experience and ask for my log book after I give them a deposit. I just can't imagine sailing boats this big with very few questions asked by these charter companies. 

I would also like to know what is the reasonable budget to expect to pay for a week in Greece or the British Virgin Islands in a 30ish foot type boat. Most of these charter companies don't even seem to have boats this small they all seem to be in the 40s. 

No wise cracks please ,, serious answers only. 

Thanks 

Kevin


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

Kevin,

In many ways, a larger boat is actually easier to sail than a smaller one. They react much more slowly, giving you more time to react. Their motion is much easier as well.

In the BVI, navigation is very easy. You can see most all the dangers, the few dangerous reefs are well marked, you get a briefing from the charter company before you depart, and the sailing is in "protected" waters. Further, good anchorages are many and are near to one another, so you can sail as much or as little as you please.

While the tradewinds can blow pretty hard, you'll get good experience sailing with reduced canvass, sometimes with just the genoa or a portion of it rolled out. You'll learn that the boat is very easy to manage if you don't have too much sail up.

Finally, if you or the charter company have any lingering doubts as to your competence, you can engage a professional skipper for the first day or two until you/he feel you're ready. It's a gentle way to learn and, for most people, a very good one.

Greece is more problematic, but doable. Unless you have a pressing reason for sailing there -- perhaps you really like Ouzo???? -- I'd do the first charter in the BVI where you can be assured of both an excellent learning experience, a great time, and a soft landing.

Bill
(been sailing the Virgins since 1969)


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Kevin,
Bill's comments are right on the money - I've chartered cat's from 38 - 50 ft; started with my only experience was a summer of sailing on a buddies 22 ft catalina and a summer on my own Hunter 31 - took out a Sunsail Lagoon 42 on my first ever bareboat.
If you want, get a skipper for a halfday (costs depending on company). I'd suggest not bothering - and playing around a mooring ball to get the feel for the boat. The only time you need to dock is the first time pulling out, and the last day pulling in - and they will come out and help if needed. Most companies want you to put the boat on the 't' dock instead of in a slip anyway.

Do the BVI first. It rates a 1 in difficulty for all categories (anchoring, sailing, navigation) etc - yet a 5 out of 5 for fun .

Either way, do it - next time you'll know how easy it is.


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## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

You can read to your hearts content all of the information at Moorings dot com. Moorings is the biggest charter company in BVI/Tortola.

If you are comfortable enough with your sailing skills to sign the contract and take responsibility for any and all damages that may occur during your charter, then the charter company is probably comfortable with their insurance provider to repair the damage you caused. There was a good analogy I read previously comparing chartering to car rental. At Hertz/Avis... they don't ask a lot of questions about your driving skills, they look at a document (drivers license or in this case a CYA card) verifying you have some level of training and away you go. If you have any doubts about your ability it may be wise to hire a charter captain for a day or two to make sure you are comfortable. This would be a small additional fee of about $150/day plus food. Sort of a cheap insurance policy.


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## 82Venture22 (Dec 8, 2006)

How much should I budget for if I go with Moorings in the BVI. Thank you everyone for the help.


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## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

Did you go to the website I listed for Moorings? Prices vary widely depending on the time of year and vessel chosen. 

Do you want to use mooring balls, drop anchor or stay in marinas at night? Anchoring---free but not an option in all places
Mooring balls---$25/night 
Marina Slips ---$50 and up/night

Are you going to sail or motor? How much are you going to run your generator? Diesel is about $4.25/gallon

Airfare is another huge variable. Are you going to prepare the majority of your meals and provision accordingly or prefer to dine at the numerous beach bar/restaurants? Do you intend to eat burgers or lobster? How many people are going? How many add-ons are you going to want such as water toys etc...? Without much more information from you, budgeting is a dfficult question to answer with all of the unknown variables.


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## ReverendMike (Aug 1, 2006)

You can get quotes from the Moorings website (and look at the different options for boats) quite easily (and it's fun!). For 4 people for 6 days we spent about 500$ on food (we provisioned ourselves) and some () of that was beer (though we did need to get more beer later...). IMO the trickier parts may be the stuff that's not as directly "sailing": provisioning (if you do it yourself), picking up a mooring, figuring if you can get from A to B before dark. 

Go for it and have fun!


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Regarding charter company insurance - not all are created evenly.

example - Voyage Charters; your standard insurace only covers damage caused below the water line. Damage YOU cause to the boat above the waterline is on you.

read the fine print, understand your liability.


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## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

How do you know this Chuck? Is there more to your comment? Either way, excellent point.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

I know from reading the fine print last time I took a Voyage boat out on charter, and a very good friend of mine is their primary charter agent (Susan). My daughter also works for them in Annapolis (procurement specialist) - (my 'ties' to the marine industry are hereby exposed).

They are not alone in the industry on this - just them I'm sure of.

A friend of mine bounced off a boat in Spanish Town - and while I never got the whole story - he wound up paying the damages out of pocket (several hundred bucks). There is a deductible - often rather large.

Dinghy insurance is also optional, and let me tell you (again, heresay, not known) they will replace that old RIB and O/B you lost with a brand new one imported from the U.S. for top dollar (5k or more) if it gets 'stolen' or lost.


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## 82Venture22 (Dec 8, 2006)

Sorry guys just another question.. When is the best time to go to BVI/Moorings. Less weather issues for a novice guy like me. I am thinking July, Aug, Sept,???


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## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

I would suggest spring whenever the charter company gives a price break after "high" season. Personally, I love to sail the BVIs during the months you list because most of the anchorages/moorings are nearly empty. For someone like yourself coming down, I would suggest avoiding the months you chose because of hurricane season which officially starts June 1st and ends Nov 1st. Sept is statistically the most active month for tropical storms and or hurricanes which would ruin a charter trip.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

They usually have a price break (25%) set for after the July 4th time frame.
It will show on their webpage. 
Temps are up, but you get used to it.


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## ReverendMike (Aug 1, 2006)

The prices start dropping in mid to late April, then further in June or July until mid-Dec. (I had much the same concern and spent some time plugging various dates into the website, they have a print catalog that's soooo much faster for that sort of thing...  oh well) They have five price levels actually, though some levels are farther apart than others.

For us, that early summer price break in mid-April is sufficient for future charter plans. Since the plans need to be made somewhat long term (in order to co-ordinate with friends and family), the risk of disrupted plans due to tropical systems doesn't interest me (though I know the odds are slim of encountering such a disruption).

Sorry to be long-winded, but I wanted to give an idea of a thought process you might go through, not just a short answer.

[edit: was off a bit re the price breaks, July-Oct is lowest, with April-June and Nov-Dec 19 next lowest, Christmas through mid April has some relatively minor price variations. I still think that for those that have to travel (read: fly > 3 hours) to get there, the April/May time would be best. But then again, I only been there twice, so you mileage will most definitely vary!

re-edit: I think I goofed something up in the edit and I don't have the brochure/catalog/price list in front of me. Sorry, however a lot of the fun IS the tootling around on their website...]


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Best time to book from a price perspective is late Nov. and December. Most companies want to have their schedules filled up by mid November, and will offer discounts on unbooked weeks.

I would think that the *best* times in BVIs are March April and May...

Ed


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

For a great perspective on this check out www.usual-suspects-sailing.com

This is a GREAT website documenting the process by which a guy from Canada purchased a boat for charter in the Grenadines (I think). Be prepared to spend several hours, as this is fascinating reading.

Ed


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## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

Great info on the insurance Chuck. That should be a sticky under chartering.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

BVI Weather and Summer Prices ETC.

The sailing is fine in the BVI's during the summer months and the pricing is WAY low. It is HURRICANE SEASON!! Many of the restaurants and shops are closed for summer vacations and "low season". The beautiful green hills get burned out by the sun. The water is still lovely and the weather is not too hot with the breezes. 
We charted here once in the summer to save $$...advice...pay the price in mid season (not high season) and enjoy a whole lot more.


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## 82Venture22 (Dec 8, 2006)

Thank you everyone.


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## matthwh610 (Mar 30, 2007)

Another quick thought - some companies (like the Moorings) will provide a friendly or day skipper free of charge (give them a tip) to go out with you for the first 4 hours or day sailing. This will allow you to get comfortable with the boat under the supervision of an experienced captain.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

If you are concerned about qualifications, an alternative to chartering is a flotilla which are not all that popular with US folks. Moorings has flotillas as do many European companies. Europian companies also seem to offer smaller boats.


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## Xoxonis (Apr 19, 2008)

*Greece and novice bareboat?*

I would agree with *btrayfors* that Greece can be a bit of a handful for a novice. Notwithstanding the meltemi, which can be avoided by sailing in the Ionian sea, in the west, which is also spectacularly beautiful, mooring med style into cramped spaces could be tricky to handle.

However, you could join a flotilla or have a skipper for a few days till you get the hang of it.

Prices are more or less standardised depending on season: for July-August expect to pay around 1400 euro per week for a 15-20 year old 28'-33' (perhaps a Greek Dromor sailing boat, which sails well albeit rather slowly into the wind, but is and feels safe) or about 2000 fro a 2-5 year old Jeanneau, Benneteau, Bavaria, Elan, Hansen (bit pricier) or similar.

Make sure you examine the boat *thoroughly* before taking over and check the engine for "strange noises", etc. Normally a good charterer will also start the dinghy outboard for you and raise sails to check, particularly roller reefing that can create problems (I was struggling for hours to get the mainsail out of the mast in 35 knots Meltemi - doable but not nice).

Enjoy your holidays!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Charters*

Although it has been quit a while my bare boat charter was pretty easy.... They were willing to bend over backwards to believe I was qualified. After all the BVI in the area that most charters allow you to go is pretty easy sailing and they are close by to "rescue" you in the event of problems... I expect each charter is different... Ask questions, make your choice and do it. My dad (an old sailor) gave me a piece of advice that I really appreciated. He said to find a buoy somewhere out of site of others and practice coming to a stop in your new boat in privacy. Then when coming into a well populated harbor one avoids the embarrassment of your deck hand being dragged into the water as he hooks buoy or the possible damage to the boat as you take out the back of the dock.


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## rtbates (Jan 30, 2007)

I have no credentials, just 25 years sailing and, like you, no one has ever asked to see my "sailing school diploma". My chartering experience has been that the company told me up front that a captain will be placed on board to gauge your abilities and he will stay until he feels you can handle it. He sat in the cockpit and watched as we prepared for departure. He observed how we handled getting away from the dock. He then asked us to raise the main, ease the sheets, etc. In all cases we've been maybe 100 yards off the dock when he said, "Ok, take me back and have a nice sail". He could have chosen to remain aboard, at our expense, for the entire charter. It's pretty obvious when someone doesn't have the experience or ability to handle a vessel. 

It's also been my experience that cards and schools don't really mean much when it comes to the ability, or lack thereof, to handle a vessel. To a man, every captain I've questioned has said the same thing.


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## filup501 (Jul 25, 2006)

I'm eager to charter in the BVI as well. All together I probably have about four years of sailing experience mostly with J24s in San Franciso Bay. Recently I got Bareboat certification from OCSC in Berkeley, CA and have taken out J/105s, Catalina 32s and 36s. I feel pretty confident skippering. The challenge I would have would be with crew. If I were to charter my crew would most likely have very little sailing experience. My question is: Is going out with a crew like that being suicidal?


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

filup501,

Depends on the crew and your ability to communicate in such a way that they don't kill you. A little bit of pre-training goes a long way. It also depends on the boat of course. Most charterboats are set up well for short handing/singlehanding. 
The bottom line is it all comes down to attitude and the fact that with the sails stowed it's just a powerboat. The BVI is a good place to learn.


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## dongreerps (May 14, 2007)

*chartering*

I agree with the previous suggestions. Please remember you are chartering to have a fun time. This means decreasing the level of your stress, not proving how all knowing and powerful a sailor you are.
I would urge you to take a skipper for the first day. It will just be a lot easier getting out of a strange harbor with an experienced hand on board. That has nothing to do with ability to handle the boat. You will also find the skippers in the BVI are extremely knowledgable about the area. With several hours to discuss the area most skippers will tell you of their favorite places, which you would be unlikely to find in the guidebooks and usual skppers briefing. Additionally getting on a strange boat and learning where all the valves, switches, etc are is a lot for a relatively inexperienced sailor to absorb in the dockside "walk through". Having several hours to explore the boat with a skipper aboard makes learning the boat a lot easier. 
Practice picking up a mooing as suggested above. If that does not go well the first day, there are lots of harbors in the BVI where you can drop an anchor instead of picking up a mooring. At the end of the charter when it is time to go into the marina, get on the radio, and ask them to send a boat boy out to help you come into the marina. Handling the boat will be the least of your worries. You will have to worry about which slip, which side to put the fenders on, where to put the mooring lines, what did that lady on the marina radio actually mean when she was talking to us, what did they mean by stop at the gas dock, and where is that anyway, etc. Let one of the boat boys deal with all of that. You concentrate upon having a relaxed finish to a great charter.


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