# Choosing a wind generator



## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

On our last sailboat we purchased the Air Marine manufactured by Southwest Windpower from West Marine. The company seemed to stand behind the product and make continual improvements over the years. Now I notice that West Marine is offering in its place a wind generator from Sunforce (SunForce Products Inc. - Wind Turbines - 600 Watt Marine Wind Turbine. Can anyone provide pros and cons between these two competitive products? Thanks
Pete


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

We try and avoid anchoring near Air Marines because they are NOISY!

Have you looked at a Kiss.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

TQA said:


> We try and avoid anchoring near Air Marines because they are NOISY!
> 
> Have you looked at a Kiss.


Thanks. My understanding is that through the years they have made significant improvements which included noise reduction. I don't think one can lump them all together. Of course, the new ones are no longer called Air Marines. We have looked at the one called Air Breeze.

I was also looking at the Sunforce 600Watt unit. Their website makes the statement:


> Quietest Wind generator in existense


Also, if I read it correctly, the blade diameter is only 26" compared to 46" for the Air Breeze and a whopping 58" for the KISS.
Pete


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

I still avoid anchoring next to any Air-X Marine and have actually re-anchored due to noise from one of them. I have a D400 which is heavy and expensive - but almost silent and produces (a bit) of power in almost no wind. When I bought my unit about 2 years ago I felt like the odd windgen out, but looking at the cruising boats in the past month in the Leewards and Windwards I see quite a few of them, one cat even had a dual setup.
The KISS is also popular but my subjective feeling is that I don't see many new Air-X ones anymore.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

Zanshin said:


> I still avoid anchoring next to any Air-X Marine and have actually re-anchored due to noise from one of them. I have a D400 which is heavy and expensive - but almost silent and produces (a bit) of power in almost no wind. When I bought my unit about 2 years ago I felt like the odd windgen out, but looking at the cruising boats in the past month in the Leewards and Windwards I see quite a few of them, one cat even had a dual setup.
> The KISS is also popular but my subjective feeling is that I don't see many new Air-X ones anymore.


Thanks for the feedback. I've been googling and surprisingly can't find any up to date comparisons between marine wind generators. Also, interestingly I found several references that stated Southwest Windpower builds the wind generators for Sunforce. Wonder what that's all about? I would sure appreciate a link to a good review of these machines.
Pete


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

prroots said:


> Also, if I read it correctly, the blade diameter is only 26" compared to 46" for the Air Breeze and a whopping 58" for the KISS.
> Pete


Simple physics dictates that a bigger blade = more output..

Practical Sailor Tested them in the June & July 2007 issues & the Superwind 350 was the overall winner... They additionally tested the updated Air Breeze in May 2009 and still declared the Superwind 350 the winner.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

Maine Sail said:


> Simple physics dictates that a bigger blade = more output..
> 
> Practical Sailor Tested them in the June & July 2007 issues & the Superwind 350 was the overall winner... They additionally tested the updated Air Breeze in May 2009 and still declared the Superwind 350 the winner.


Thanks. If I had to spend that kind of money for a wind generator, I'd definitely go with solar For comparison, West Marine sells the Sunforce 600W for $799 and the Superwind 350 for $2299; a pretty remarkable difference. Is it justified?
Pete


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

This looks interesting. Wonder if they will make a smaller version.

Energy Ball V100


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Cheap = noisy. Having installed a Superwind 350 I can attest to its lack of noise and vibration. You get what you pay for. Remember, the units that bother others will bother you more.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

mitiempo said:


> Cheap = noisy. Having installed a Superwind 350 I can attest to its lack of noise and vibration. You get what you pay for. Remember, the units that bother others will bother you more.


I guess I'm an optimist. What about this statement concerning the Sunforce 600Watt unit sold by West Marine. Sunforce's website makes the statement:



> Quietest Wind generator in existense


Sounds pretty good to me. I'd sure like to hear from anyone who's tried one.
Pete


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Not sure about the Sunforce but I have heard a lot of noisy ones. Also the mount has to be solid or any vibration is transferred to the boat - you will notice that.
The Superwind is not audible unless you are close enough to hear the blades hitting the air and because of its mount - 9' of 2" heavy wall stainless pipe (not tube) - nothing shakes.


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## bbarnewolt (Jul 16, 2001)

Practical Sailor has posted a recent YouTube update from the Miami Boat Show on the Superwind and some updates that have taken place since their review in 2007. Unfortunately, the video does not show the wind turbine in use. I'll post the link in a follow up.

Brien


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## bbarnewolt (Jul 16, 2001)

Here is the Practical Sailor YouTube Link:

YouTube - SuperWind Wind Generator

Brien


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

bbarnewolt said:


> Here is the Practical Sailor YouTube Link:
> 
> YouTube - SuperWind Wind Generator
> 
> Brien


Nice video, but the cost blows me away. Why would anyone pay $2800-3000 for wind energy? Guess it doesn't compute for me. Of course if money is no object!
Pete


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Depends how long they have listened to a noisy one.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

prroots said:


> Nice video, but the cost blows me away. Why would anyone pay $2800-3000 for wind energy? Guess it doesn't compute for me. Of course if money is no object!
> Pete


My quick math says that would repay itself compared to diesel generated battery recharging in about 200-300 days. Pretty good for a full time cruiser, obviously not great for a weekend warrior that just plugs in at home.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

Finally, I found an actual review at:
http://www.naviclub.com/Test_comparatif_eoliennes_marine.pdf

It concludes that among the 3 bladed, high output generators, the Superwind 350 placed first with a prototype of the Air Breeze a close second. This is great news (for cost conscious cruisers) given that the Air Breeze is about 1/3 the cost. Here is a quote from the report:


> Air Breeze prototype include high output (second overall), light weight (lightest overall), quiet operation, easy installation, excellent construction, and a low price. The unit will soon be available at West Marine for $915, according to the manufacturer. Testers also liked the charge LED display on the bottom of the unit, which gives a visual indication of unit output and can be used as a troubleshooting aid.


and


> The Air Breeze prototype looks very promising and might even have been the Best Choice, except that we have not tested the actual unit that will be for sale.


Here's one for $799:
Southwest Wind Power Air Breeze Wind Turbine Marine 200W 12V - Air Breeze Electric Wind Turbines @ AltE

I'm still hoping to hear some feedback on the SunForce 600W which, near as I can tell, is also manufactured by Southwest Windpower and listed in the West Marine catalog.
Pete


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

The Air X is noisy, very very noisy the Air breeze is not. I have the Air breeze wind driven Generator and yes it is marginally noisier than the D400. This weekend I was on my boat and my mate has the D400 on his. They both have a whoosh sound but the air breeze was putting out 2Amps in 15 knots of wind more than the D400 and at less than a third the cost. I have an aft cockpit and directly under the Gen, the sound does not seem to encroach on conversation and is not unpleasant. My mates is a centre cockpit and you can hear the D400 running when sitting there. From his boat I could not hear my Gen and the same when sitting in my cockpit for his.
Here is an extract from the manual for the Air Breeze:
Regulation: As Air Breeze produces power and the battery voltage rises
to the regulation set point voltage, Air Breeze will go into “regulation.” At
that point it stops producing power and the blade rpm will lower dramatically
(almost stopping). Air Breeze will remain in regulation until the battery
voltage drops slightly below the regulation set point – this is often referred
to as the cut-in voltage. When the cut-in voltage is reached, the blades
will resume spinning in response to the available wind. Regulation mode is
indicated by the Air Breeze LED blinking at a rate of approximately twice
a second.
Stall Mode: Stall mode is marked by a dramatic reduction in turbine
speed to approximately 500 – 700 rpm. Air Breeze will enter stall mode
when a wind speed of 35 mph (15.6 m/s) is sensed, and it will remain in
stall mode until the speed drops to 32 mph (14 m/s). If a wind speed of
50 mph (22 m/s) is detected, the turbine will completely shut down for 5
minutes.
When in stall mode the Air Breeze LED will blink quickly – approximately
10 times per second.
Braking Mode: Air Breeze may be placed in braking mode by directly
shorting the turbine positive and negative wires together or by the use of
a stop switch. The stop switch first disconnects the turbine from the battery
and then shorts the positive and negative wires. In very strong winds
the blades may rotate slowly even with the switch activated.
No Load Operation /Open Circuit /Free Spinning: Air Breeze will
spin freely if disconnected from an electrical load. This results in a cycle
of rapid blade speed followed by rapid braking – this mode of operation
may accelerate wear of the turbine and is also non-productive. To turn Air
Breeze off for short periods of time Southwest Windpower recommends
using a properly installed switch. If your Air Breeze will be shut down for
an extended period of time Southwest Windpower recommends lowering
the turbine completely or securing the blades to prevent rotation.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

SimonV said:


> The Air X is noisy, very very noisy the Air breeze is not. I have the Air breeze wind driven Generator and yes it is marginally noisier than the D400. This weekend I was on my boat and my mate has the D400 on his. They both have a whoosh sound but the air breeze was putting out 2Amps in 15 knots of wind more than the D400 and at less than a third the cost.


Wow, thanks for the very interesting testimony. The Air Breeze will definitely be on my short list
Pete


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## SAMUELBURNS (Jan 1, 2010)

*TARGET.com carries wind generator online*

For under $600 when I bought mine last year.....


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

SAMUELBURNS said:


> For under $600 when I bought mine last year.....


What make/model are you referring to? I found nothing, but a book on wind turbines at Target.com
Pete


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

Anyone tried out the Sunforce 600W? Still hoping to get some real life feedback.
Pete


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## trlrtrsh (Jan 24, 2011)

I'm interested in hearing the different comparisons. I am updating my Electrical wants/needs. I have recieved a 120 amp alternator, but the idea of running the deisel everyday is not too apealing to me. The price is a considerable decision with me. I think that solar is going down as more solar technology breaks thru. (I have in my shed 3 150 watt @ 12V solar panals) so mounting and connecting them will supply 450 watts of electricity. Sounds simple, and my electrician (Marine type) say's my boat is all ready to hook them up. My problem is I am not an electrician so I have to rely on others for suggestions then I mull them over to try to come up with the most do-able system. I currently have a total of 6 deep cycle 12V batteries, 4 in 1 bank, 1 for the dedicated starting, and one up forward in the V-berth for the 2 anchor wenches. Solar is quiet, no moving parts, etc. 
I agree that right now, solar will give you more "Bang for the Buck". The only advantage I can see with the wind generator is it's still working at night (if there's wind).


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

trlrtrsh said:


> I'm interested in hearing the different comparisons. I am updating my Electrical wants/needs. I have recieved a 120 amp alternator, but the idea of running the deisel everyday is not too apealing to me. The price is a considerable decision with me. I think that solar is going down as more solar technology breaks thru. (I have in my shed 3 150 watt @ 12V solar panals) so mounting and connecting them will supply 450 watts of electricity. Sounds simple, and my electrician (Marine type) say's my boat is all ready to hook them up. My problem is I am not an electrician so I have to rely on others for suggestions then I mull them over to try to come up with the most do-able system. I currently have a total of 6 deep cycle 12V batteries, 4 in 1 bank, 1 for the dedicated starting, and one up forward in the V-berth for the 2 anchor wenches. Solar is quiet, no moving parts, etc.
> I agree that right now, solar will give you more "Bang for the Buck". The only advantage I can see with the wind generator is it's still working at night (if there's wind).


Yes, lots of decision to make. All my calculations suggest that wind is a much better bang for the buck. If cost were no object and I had to decide between wind or solar, I wouldn't hesitate a moment going solar. For most the big expense is providing the mounting of wind vs solar. A proper arch costs $7-8K on our boat. An off-the-shelf- pole mount kit for a wind generator is $500-600. Of course, the optimum is wind and solar. On our last boat, we had a custom arch built with 3 85 watt solar panels mounted on top. The same arch supported a pole on the side with an Air Marine wind generator. The combination supplied virtually all of our electrical needs (110 Ah/day). This time around we'll be spending more time at dock than at sea and cannot justify the expense as easily.

BTW, I'm creating a spreadsheet comparing wind generators. If interested send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you a copy for what it's worth. The info for the Sunforce 600W is very sparse; it's almost as if it doesn't exist! That's why I'm so anxious to receive some real world reports.
Pete


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

Here in St. Lucia there are some boats in the marina with aftermarket blades for their air x wind gens. They are very quiet, and you would never re-anchor not to be near one. I am not sure where to buy them but they are dark blue and apparently redesigned so as to make them pretty nearly as quiet as a KISS with a minimal loss of power. Worth looking into I think.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

prroots said:


> BTW, I'm creating a spreadsheet comparing wind generators. If interested send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you a copy for what it's worth. The info for the Sunforce 600W is very sparse; it's almost as if it doesn't exist! That's why I'm so anxious to receive some real world reports.
> Pete


When I get around to it I'll upload some photos of an "inexpensive" unit I tore down just yesterday that already needed the bearings replaced. The paint might as well have been Crayola Crayons, though I suspect that would have held up better and the corrosion was out of control. The saying, "you get what you pay for" rings true.....


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## Ventura1922 (Mar 6, 2011)

*wind turbine and west vs southwest*

I have two Airrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr wind turbines going, one on a houseboat, one on a sailboat, and am very pleased with the performances. I purchased both from Southwest, two years apart, based on the very prompt email response to service questions, and a repair. Excellent job on both points. West Marine has a great "no questions asked" policy on returns. However, the quality of their own brands, when duplicating other products, I have found is pretty much consistent with "you get what you pay for." The quality of hardware fittings of West vs. say, Wilcox, is low quality stainless coating over potmetal, vs. solid stainless. This is a fairly narrow generalization, but I think reflects the corporate approach West has taken. I am a commercial operator and use Port Supply, part of the West Marine network, and am pleased with the service. However, in this case, I would go with Southwest, mainly because the high quality of the turbine, and the important job it does. Patrick Harris, s/v Ventura, Welcome to Atlantic Sail Charter![/url] PS If you are looking for used turbines, be aware the black blades failed due to UV impact; Southwest provided me with new white blades as a replacement, at no charge.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

Maine Sail said:


> When I get around to it I'll upload some photos of an "inexpensive" unit I tore down just yesterday that already needed the bearings replaced. The paint might as well have been Crayola Crayons, though I suspect that would have held up better and the corrosion was out of control. The saying, "you get what you pay for" rings true.....


Thanks. What make and model are you describing?

With respect to the Sunforce 600W I did chase down some interesting info. First, I called Sunforce which is a Canadian company. They told me that Sunforce had developed the product and it was being manufactured in Taiwan. I asked them how their rotor diameter could be only 26" while producing as much if not more power than their competitors with twice the diameter. On the first call, they said it must be true since they don't do misprints! On the second call, someone else admitted that it was indeed a mistake and the 26" referred to the radius, not diameter. I then called the West Marine buyer at their corporate office (referred to me by their product adviser) who now carries this product and asked him why they dropped the products from Southwest Windpower (eg, Air X). They said that they were receiving hate mail concerning the noise emitted by the Air X. They also told me that they weren't claiming the Sunforce to be the best product in the market, but rather a good value for the money. They especially liked the fact that it braked to a stop in high winds and thus made no noise under these conditions. I asked if they had tested the machine and he replied that they had done some casual testing and were impressed. The Sunforce is very new for West Marine; their warehouse received their first shipment a few weeks ago. They were not able to tell me how many, if any, have been sold so far. This explains why no feedback has been received from actual users.

I am very tempted to give the Sunforce a try although as a rule I hate to play guinea pig At this point, my second choice would be the reportedly very quiet Air Breeze. The problem with the Air Breeze is that it starts up at higher wind speeds (5.2 vs 3.9 knots) and produces only about half the current (1.8 vs 3.2 Amps) at 10 knots. As someone pointed out the power generated at 10 knots is all important since this might represent the wind speed in the typical sheltered anchorage.
Pete


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## Ventura1922 (Mar 6, 2011)

*wind turbine and west vs southwest*

A correction on my last post: Southwest provided dark blue/black replacement blades, at no cost, to replace the original white blades which deteriorated due to UV. My bad. But excellent unit and service. In the central Bahamas two 12 vdc batts and the turbine provided 100% of all my power needs from mid November through today!


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

Ventura1922 said:


> A correction on my last post: Southwest provided dark blue/black replacement blades, at no cost, to replace the original white blades which deteriorated due to UV. My bad. But excellent unit and service. In the central Bahamas two 12 vdc batts and the turbine provided 100% of all my power needs from mid November through today!


Thanks. I called Southwest Windpower about the blade issues. They stated that this issue related to the Air Breeze and not the Air X. The initial white blade material was subject to deterioration from UV. They then remade the same size and shape blade in the same black material used on Air X. The only change to the Air Breeze was a change in blade material; nothing else changed. 
Pete


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

We've come up with a strategy for purchasing a wind generator. As background, we've learned that the Air Breeze and Sunforce 600W take the exact same mounting pole (no accident I suspect). We plan to purchase the Sunforce 600W from West Marine which offers a liberal return policy. We will evaluate it for upwards of 30 days. If dissatisfied with it in any way we will return it for a refund and purchase the Air Breeze from one of several dealers here in Florida. As mentioned, the Sunforce is brand-new on the market and normally we don't like to play guinea pig, but the price and specs are just too enticing Our fallback will be the Air Breeze which is well proven and reported to be very quiet, but with the downside of lower output.
Pete


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

prroots said:


> We've come up with a strategy for purchasing a wind generator. As background, we've learned that the Air Breeze and Sunforce 600W take the exact same mounting pole (no accident I suspect). We plan to purchase the Sunforce 600W from West Marine which offers a liberal return policy. We will evaluate it for upwards of 30 days. If dissatisfied with it in any way we will return it for a refund and purchase the Air Breeze from one of several dealers here in Florida. As mentioned, the Sunforce is brand-new on the market and normally we don't like to play guinea pig, but the price and specs are just too enticing Our fallback will be the Air Breeze which is well proven and reported to be very quiet, but with the downside of lower output.
> Pete


I've found this thread very informative and appreciate the research you've done. I hope you'll post your findings when you've done your evaluation.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

midlifesailor said:


> I've found this thread very informative and appreciate the research you've done. I hope you'll post your findings when you've done your evaluation.


Will do. I've learned a lot on this site and whenever I have a chance to give something back, I'll gladly do it. By the way, we just did purchase the pole and associated hardware for the wind generator. eMarine (Welcome to eMarine Systems) out of Fort Lauderdale offers, what they claim, to be a superior pole to what Southwest Windpower sells. It's anodized aluminum with the inside coated with a sound deadening material. They claim that the powder coated paint offered by Southwest Windpower chips easily. They also did a side-by-side demo of poles with and without sound deadening added. It works 

As an interesting aside, eMarine has plans to test the Sunforce 600W since they would like to offer a 600 Watt wind generator down the road.
Pete


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

We've started the installation of pole mast purchased from eMarine. What a bear trying to get to the back of through bolts. We're mounting the mast base and one of the 1" SS stays to the transom. The other 1" SS stay runs forward and will be anchored just aft of the genoa winch (making sure it doesn't interfere). The instructions are very specific with regards to distance of stays from mast base at lower end and distance from top of mast on upper end. The quality looks good. By the way, the poles are from eMarine, but the hardware is from Southwest Windpower.

As an aside we're using butyl tape purchased from Maine Sail for the first time. In accordance with his instructions the holes have been beveled. We're certain that there will never be leaks at these points 
Pete


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

Just completed installation of mast and wind generator. Everything went well except the manual is terrible. Fortunately, there were just a few parts to assemble for wind generator and it was pretty obvious how it must go together. The wind, so far, has been light and variable. When the generator is running we definitely hear it down below, but doubt if it's loud enough to bother neighbors here at our slip.

Question: we have a BMV-600 battery monitor on house bank and an ammeter on output of wind generator. Not sure how to track output of wind generator?
Pete


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

I have a similar monitoring setup and one can only indirectly measure the windgen output, i.e. turning off all loads and looking at the amps shown on the monitor. I have thought about putting a separate shunt and ammeter in just so I could see how much output the windgen generates but realized that it was too much monitoring.


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

Zanshin said:


> I have a similar monitoring setup and one can only indirectly measure the windgen output, i.e. turning off all loads and looking at the amps shown on the monitor. I have thought about putting a separate shunt and ammeter in just so I could see how much output the windgen generates but realized that it was too much monitoring.


Thanks. Yes, I thought about that and I'll plan on doing that. My BMV-600 battery monitor will accurately measure the instantaneous Amps output once all loads are switched off. At least that way I can monitor performance if not accumulated amp-hours
Pete


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## chuck711 (Dec 25, 2002)

*Self Regulating Air Breeze*

In choosing a Wind Generator carefully look at the Air Breeze Self Regulating
feature. I own a Marine Service Business in Eastern North Carolina. Power and Sail Boat Repair. I find that many owners of the non self regulating type
( Kiss for an example ) find their battery banks compromised due to over charging. To set up a diversion bank of resistor loads or water heater diversion can be a problem. Resistor loads generate heat ( danger ) and ventilated space on a sail boat is hard to com by. As well as the cost.
Sometimes 10% -15 % more for a well engineered system is cheaper in the long run.

Chuck Courtney


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

chuck711 said:


> In choosing a Wind Generator carefully look at the Air Breeze Self Regulating
> feature. I own a Marine Service Business in Eastern North Carolina. Power and Sail Boat Repair. I find that many owners of the non self regulating type
> ( Kiss for an example ) find their battery banks compromised due to over charging. To set up a diversion bank of resistor loads or water heater diversion can be a problem. Resistor loads generate heat ( danger ) and ventilated space on a sail boat is hard to com by. As well as the cost.
> Sometimes 10% -15 % more for a well engineered system is cheaper in the long run.
> ...


Thanks for the feedback. I purchased the Sunforce marine 600W unit which comes with a very heavy charge controller. The specs state that it performs 3 stage regulation and prevents undercharge or overcharge. Since it's so new perhaps you haven't had a chance to review? On the surface, it certainly seems to address the issue you raise. I intend to report back my experience with it especially since no one else seems to have one 
Pete


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

My recently installed Sunforce marine 600W wind generator comes with a charge controller and analog ammeter. I've decided I'd rather have a digital ammeter and I don't want to spend much money. Can anyone suggest one? Thanks
Pete


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

We installed the Sunforce 600W marine wind generator and tested it for about 1 week. During that period, we never saw more than 0.7 amps at 12 Volts Wind speeds estimated at 0-15 knots during the test period. We called Sunforce tech support and they indicated that we were doing everything correctly. Their suggestion was to return it to West Marine for another one. 

As per plan indicated above, we returned it for a full refund and purchased the Air Breeze. The Air Breeze is now working. Our anemometer is not calibrated, but as near as we can tell it's working as advertised. Today we saw 15 Amps as a squall passed through our marina. Of course, it's a disappointment that we had to step down from 600W to 200W. At least now we have a working wind generator.
Pete


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## MacGyverRI (Nov 14, 2007)

I have a $110 cheapie 125 Watt/9.6 amp wind generator from EBay (seller; otter5555) and it doesn't make as much noise as an AirX. That and my Harbor Freight 45 Watt solar panel kit ($149.00 on sale) combined only cost $259 total keep my 4D battery charged well. It's a cheaper way out for those of us w/o big budgets 

Make sure you use Blocking Diodes or Rectifier Diodes (work same way) on ea. piece (1 for each of the 3 panels, 1 for the gen.) to avoid discharging the batteries no matter which systems you use. 

added, Most Diodes can be wired in parallel if you can't find one that has the power flow. 
i.e. "3" 1.5 Amp Diodes can be wired together and used for 4.5 Amp, "3" 10 Amp for 30 Amp etc..

Too large of a Diode power rating (i.e. 50 Diode on a 20 Amp system) can cause you to lose Amperage.


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## jimrafford (Jan 7, 2011)

Anyone have any experiance w/ the Rutland units. I'm considering the 914. Recorces here in the states are limited.
Jim


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

jimrafford said:


> Anyone have any experiance w/ the Rutland units. I'm considering the 914. Recorces here in the states are limited.
> Jim


I purchased my Air Breeze from eMarine (http://www.emarineinc.com/). The owner, Paul, told me that they have been testing the 914 and seemed pleased with it. The cost was considerably higher than the Air Breeze and power output did not justify the additional expense for me. You might call them and get additional details. As an aside, I had a technical question on the operation of my Air Breeze. I called both Southwest Windpower, the manufacturer, and eMarine. The answer received from Southwest Windpower was useless while the one from eMarine made sense and proved correct  
Pete
PS I am not affiliated with eMarine; just a satisfied customer


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

prroots said:


> I purchased my Air Breeze from eMarine (http://www.emarineinc.com/). The owner, Paul, told me that they have been testing the 914 and seemed pleased with it. The cost was considerably higher than the Air Breeze and power output did not justify the additional expense for me. You might call them and get additional details. As an aside, I had a technical question on the operation of my Air Breeze. I called both Southwest Windpower, the manufacturer, and eMarine. The answer received from Southwest Windpower was useless while the one from eMarine made sense and proved correct
> Pete
> PS I am not affiliated with eMarine; just a satisfied customer


How's the sound level with the Air Breeze? Since you also had the Sunforce, (at least for a short time) could you offer a comparative opinion?


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

midlifesailor said:


> How's the sound level with the Air Breeze? Since you also had the Sunforce, (at least for a short time) could you offer a comparative opinion?


I'd say the noise from the Sunforce was a bit less, but then again it never output more than 0.7 Amps so not sure if observations are relevant. Having said that, I would say the noise of Air Breeze is acceptable. We've now had it running up to near rated load with about 15 Amps output.
Pete


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

This is a great discussion of the wind generator research, installation, and experiences. Prroots, thanks for letting us all follow along. Sorry about the disappointment you had with the Sunforce. It's always a bummer when a a purchase and installation doesn't work out like we hoped.



Minnewaska said:


> This looks interesting. Wonder if they will make a smaller version.
> 
> Energy Ball V100


Speaking of other approaches.... Has anybody studied this new concept from Honeywell? It's too big and costly for most sailboats at this point, but a smaller version would be very interesting. Seems to have some advantages (turbine, with no gear case) that would be beneficial in the marine environment. Anyway, I just thought I'd toss it out as something to watch in the coming years:

Honeywell Wind Turbine Info

Honeywell Wind Turbine Price


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## prroots (Nov 13, 2010)

I've now been testing the Air Breeze for about a week and I'd say it's working pretty much as advertised. One thing that surprises me is the variability in instantaneous current output during operation. This may be caused by so-called dirty air here at the marina. eMarine used the term dirty air to describe air that is very turbulent such as caused by other obstructions in the vicinity.
Pete


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## MacGyverRI (Nov 14, 2007)

prroots said:


> This may be caused by so-called dirty air here at the marina. eMarine used the term dirty air to describe air that is very turbulent such as caused by other obstructions in the vicinity.
> Pete


I mounted mine on top of a 10' piece of 1" EMT tubing that's clamped to the Lifeline rail to get clean wind (13' off water). It made a difference w/ the fly bridges that are around me.

My simple setup survived sustained 50-60 MPH winds last month in R.I. along w/ max power output.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

JohnRPollard said:


> Speaking of other approaches.... Has anybody studied this new concept from Honeywell? It's too big and costly for most sailboats at this point, but a smaller version would be very interesting. Seems to have some advantages (turbine, with no gear case) that would be beneficial in the marine environment.


Hey, that is very interesting John! I wonder if that scales down well? A wind generator that can start producing power in a breeze of .5 mph would open it up to areas where they just weren't practical before.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

arf145 said:


> A wind generator that can start producing power in a breeze of .5 mph would open it up to areas where they just weren't practical before.


Their cut-in speed is quoted at 2 metres per second. That's a fraction under 4kn (4.4 mph) not a half an mph. A Rutland 913 has about the same cut in (they claim 5kn). And for just $850.

It's a bit difficult to compare outputs given that this is a mains device. At 230 volts it's putting out just a little over 2 amps. One wonders what it would do at 13.7 volts.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Omatako said:


> Their cut-in speed is quoted at 2 metres per second. That's a fraction under 4kn (4.4 mph) not a half an mph. A Rutland 913 has about the same cut in (they claim 5kn). And for just $850.


I believe the lit said not 2m but 0.2m.

Tom


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

arf145 said:


> Hey, that is very interesting John! I wonder if that scales down well?


That's what I was wondering, too.

I'm not holding my breath that we'll find out anytime soon, though -- it seems like Honeywell is targeting the shoreside market with this package.

Still, it might inspire a new approach from some of the companies now serving the marine market.

I've also wondered if it might scale "up", and we might see a new kind of wind turbine in the wind farms?


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

JohnRPollard said:


> I've also wondered if it might scale "up", and we might see a new kind of wind turbine in the wind farms?


Man, those things are big. I recently worked on the importing of a crane and transport arrangements to transport components from Auckland port to a new wind farm in the area. Some facts about the turbines:

"Each turbine, once fully assembled, is 130.5 metres high and weighs 318 tonnes. Each turbine consists of three main parts - the base tower, the nacelle and the blades. Each base tower is 80 metres high and weighs approximately 169 tonnes. The turbine blades are each *49 metres* long and weigh *10.9 *tonnes. Each nacelle is 3.5 metres in circumference and weighs 81 tonnes. Each of the 28 wind turbines has a maximum generation capacity of 2.3 megawatts. Turbines will generate electricity in wind speeds of between 14km and 90km per hour."

The crane we assisted with importing has a 600t capacity and was used in concunction with another 300t and a further 200t unit during the assembly.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread.


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## davimack (Sep 10, 2000)

*Wind Generators*

Interesting discussion. I have a Rutland 913 which I am going to sell, as it is OK in law winds, putting out 90 Watts at 19 knots, which of course is only about 7.5 amps. I need more power and have been trying to decide on a new machine. I looked long and hard at the Air Breeze, and many people have, someone mentioned, changed the blades to the blue ones, both on the Air X and the Air Breeze. Those blue blades are made by Spreco in Germany and are much quieter, and also more efficient than the original ones. That has led me to consider the *Silentwind* wind generator, which puts out about 14 amps at 20 knots. 
It has now come down to a choice between the Silentwind and the Superwind 350. They both have about the same output, but the Silentwind is quieter and less money.
Any comments..............??


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I recently helped install a Superwind 350 on a Westsail 32. I can`t imagine a quieter wind gen. If you are close enough all you hear is the blades in the wind. And you have to be very close to hear that. There is no vibration evident on the boat. When you place a hand on the stainless pole it is mounted on (9 feet tall) there is not a hint of vibration. 

How much quieter is the Silentwind supposed to be.


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

I started in 1990 with a Windbugger, not the original 2 blade but a 3 blade. A bit noisy, good output but expensive parts and lots of brushes. Bugger Bob used to grind the identification marks off the generator so you always had to go to him for parts. The thrust bearing needed a lot of attention

In 2004 I got a KISS. Excellent unit, good output and fairly quiet. Parts easy to get and they used to tell you where you could get them, usually an auto parts store. Main knock on this was that it used to cut out at 25 knots due to the thermal switches to prevent overheating. To get around this I used to tie it slightly off the wind when it honked. Excellent unit and the noise at 25 knots was my anchor alarm. Time to get up and check the anchor. A simple high output unit. Used it for ten years without a hitch, although towards the end I think the bearings might have needed to be replaced.

Last January I tried to get another KISS but John at Hotwire could not deliver for a month or two and I couldn't wait. I ended up with a D400. Being a hater of anything electrical coming out of England I was pleasantly surprised. The unit is the best of the bunch. Quiet, too quiet as I can longer rely on the noise being my anchor alarm and a good output curve.

I leave it running even when I'm off the boat. The KISS was unregulated and I usually tied it off when not on the boat. The only knock on the D400 is the price.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

MacGyverRI said:


> Make sure you use Blocking Diodes or Rectifier Diodes...
> 
> ...Too large of a Diode power rating (i.e. 50 Diode on a 20 Amp system) can cause you to lose Amperage.


Not sure that's correct. Diodes have a simple lowering of voltage. A bigger diode is simply like more diodes in parallel. It won't mean lower amperage.

There are different types of diode chemistries that will mean a lower voltage drop (0.3 V versus 0.5 V) but that's a different discussion.

Regards,
Brad


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Unless you are in a cloudy and windy place, I don't understand why you'd want a wind generator over solar panels, unless it's pure short-term cost. I've had both and now have 540 watts of solar and loving it.

I also found that the published average wind speeds for locations are very misleading. They are more like the average peak wind speed. In my home waters, what was published as a 7 knot average in July was more like a 7 knot average daily peak wind speed. I thought I'd have a lot of power, but instead had just small amount of power on some afternoons. Then when the wind picked up, you had to feather it out of the wind to get any sleep.

Of course, our large-bladed wind generator eliminated tacking at anchor, which was nice. Until my wife needed it feathered to get some sleep, that is.

Regards,
Brad


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

I am just about to buy a wind generator to help the solar panels at night. I have just upped the solar from 240 watts with an extra 70 in the mornings to 380 watts. But the freezer at night draws too much to freeze so I want add a few overnight amps from wind.

So I am going to buy a Sunforce 600 which is $900 here, ($800 in the usa). Its got a few bad reviews on the internet but I dont know if thats from people who expect too much. I am in the trade winds and even in bays get a good 12 knots steady wind on average.... And a few months of much higher!

After that I will increase the battery bank from 320 amp hours to 480 amp hours.


Mark


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I carry both, and like the mix. My SilentWind performs pretty much to advertised spec; gets going at around 8-10 knots, starts generating 2 amps around 12 knots. By 15 knots it's pumping out ~4 amps, by 20 knots it's up over 8 amps, and by 25 knots it really ramps up. I've seen 

I'm installing 150 watts in addition to my existing 100 this season. I expect with the wind generator I will be energy self-sufficient most of the time.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> I am just about to buy a wind generator to help the solar panels at night. I have just upped the solar from 240 watts with an extra 70 in the mornings to 380 watts. But the freezer at night draws too much to freeze so I want add a few overnight amps from wind.
> 
> So I am going to buy a Sunforce 600 which is $900 here, ($800 in the usa). Its got a few bad reviews on the internet but I dont know if thats from people who expect too much. I am in the trade winds and even in bays get a good 12 knots steady wind on average.... And a few months of much higher!
> 
> ...


Mark,

I built a circuit that turns the compressor on full blast when the batteries are mostly charged. It works great. By lowering the box temperature during the day, the compressor doesn't have to run at night, at least until the early morning. It probably saves 75% of the battery usage.

Since I have 1 compressor for both boxes, I put fresh water containers at the bottom of the fridge to freeze first before any of the fridge food, absorb any extra cooling, and provide cold through the night.

The circuit actually monitors the fridge temp to make sure the fridge doesn't get too cold. Not too much of an issue in the summer really.

Anyway, that's another idea instead of adding wind & more batteries.

Went the summer on just one 4D wet cell, with no problems.

Regards,
Brad


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Great idea!

Give me yours? 

:laugher don't worry. 

That would take much more knowldege than I have.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

+1 for d400s. Have two on poles at extreme aft. Find need some real wind(>15) to get decent production. But at night with >20knots they will charge 1020a house bank to 100% keep up with frig/freezer, radar,electronics and the AP. Think wind lousy at anchor and in most places marginal coastal but worth every penny near or offshore as genset noise is way worse than wind noise. Also diesel much more expensive way to,get watts Wind has no oil changes involved.
Also make sure your diversion banks are well placed and screened. They do get hot.
If I had unlimited bucks the hydro generators the ocean racers use seem awesome.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Great idea!
> 
> Give me yours?
> 
> ...


I ought to make a few for other people. I spent a lot of money frying circuits until I got it right.

Regards,
Brad


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Was an article Fatty wrote talking about wind v. solar when he went to Scotland. If I recall he stressed need for around 20kt for wind to keep a boat fully charged given all the crap we put on boats. Also relatively poor output from solar c/w published data in the winter. Even in caribbean or fla.
Carry both as well but clearly get more bang for the buck with solar.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Bene505 said:


> *Unless you are in a cloudy and windy place, I don't understand why you'd want a wind generator over solar panels*, unless it's pure short-term cost. I've had both and now have 540 watts of solar and loving it.
> 
> I also found that the published average wind speeds for locations are very misleading. They are more like the average peak wind speed. In my home waters, what was published as a 7 knot average in July was more like a 7 knot average daily peak wind speed. I thought I'd have a lot of power, but instead had just small amount of power on some afternoons. Then when the wind picked up, you had to feather it out of the wind to get any sleep.
> 
> Of course, our large-bladed wind generator eliminated tacking at anchor, which was nice. Until my wife needed it feathered to get some sleep, that is.


As usual, it depends where you're sailing... Not to mention, what you're sailing... Good luck figuring out where to put your 540 watts of solar panels on a boat as small as mine... 

I think if you make it down to a place like the Bahamas, you might find a wind generator can be pretty nice to have...


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

If you want to be unpopular in an anchorage, a mooring field or your marina, then go ahead, buy a cheap 3 blade windgen. We hear them every da*n day and night and they suck! Often heard by owners of noisy windgens, "well, I always know the wind speed." Of course they do, because the awful things make even MORE noise when the wind picks up a bit.
I don't know of a decent windgen under 2k and its really false economy to buy an $800 unit because you'll spend more replacing the trashed cheapo than operating the quality unit for a much longer time.
There is absolutely no justification for the noise pollution of the cheap windgens, in a lovely Caribbean anchorage.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

outbound said:


> If I had unlimited bucks the hydro generators the ocean racers use seem awesome.


I think "unlimited bucks" might be the operative phrase, there... 

Stanley Paris busted 2 more of those pricey French hydrogenerators this summer while sailing KIWI SPIRIT the 1200 miles between New England and St Augustine...

Hydro is a great way to go, however. My towed generator is one of my favorite pieces of gear, and a very dependable and impressive source of power generation offshore...


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

JonEisberg said:


> Hydro is a great way to go, however. My towed generator is one of my favorite pieces of gear, and a very dependable and impressive source of power generation offshore...


I don't know which one you use, but two quick questions, please.
1) doesn't it slow you considerably?A few I've talked to say they do effect performance.
2) does it interfere with fishing?
Thanks.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

capta said:


> I don't know which one you use, but two quick questions, please.
> 1) doesn't it slow you considerably?A few I've talked to say they do effect performance.
> 2) does it interfere with fishing?
> Thanks.


Mine is the unit from Ferris, can be converted from wind to hydro... That's a bit of a pain, but still a good solution on a small boat like mine, and for someone like me who doesn't care for the look of a permanently mounted wind gen, particularly on a small boat...

Obviously it creates some drag, but I haven't noticed a "considerable" effect... If I had to guess, I'd say maybe 0.2 knot, at most... It's not worth using it unless I'm doing 5 knots or so sustained, and the closer I get to hull speed on my boat, whatever drag it creates is probably minimal compared to approaching 'The Wall' imposed by a particular boat's hull speed...

Yeah, you definitely wouldn't want to try fishing while dragging the spinner, that would be asking for trouble, bigtime...

)


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Remember the (Walker)taffrail log? Same thing. gotta remember to pull it in before entering the harbour. I know this because I dove on the prop in San Fran


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## windnrock (May 27, 2012)

I can not recommend the SilentWind generator. The first ran for about a year before developing bearing issues. The unit was repacked and sent to eMarine where I purchased it. I received what I believed to be a new unit in about three weeks and was pleased to have the problem resolved. Unfortunately, about a year later, the same problem returned. eMarine, after months of trying to get an answer from SilentWind, sent me a new set of bearings. I disassembled the generator and found that, while the bearings had lost a large amount of grease (they are sealed) the major issue was the housing. The bearings all but fell out into my hands when I removed the internal C clip that held them. The surfaces on the housing as well as the bearings were scored and worn. I remounted the bearings and found the excessive play was NOT in them, but rather between the bearings and the housing. The design, similar to others, has both bearings forward of the rotor with a small spacer in between. Unfortunately, the soft aluminum housing does not seem to be able to hold them. I suspect I was given the original unit after a bearing replacement. I have been trying to get this resolved for months. SilentWind has indeed been silent and eMarine (their distributor) has had difficulty contacting them. I will continue to try to get some answers as well as replacement and post back what eventually happens. Considering the expense of the unit I may redesign and machine the housing myself if they can or do not respond.

I have gotten a good response from the Product Manager at SilentWind and will update what transpires.


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

Bene505 said:


> I also found that the published average wind speeds for locations are very misleading. They are more like the average peak wind speed. In my home waters, what was published as a 7 knot average in July was more like a 7 knot average daily peak wind speed. I thought I'd have a lot of power, but instead had just small amount of power on some afternoons. Then when the wind picked up, you had to feather it out of the wind to get any sleep.


Bene: This disparity is well known in the wind power world and is a result of a statistical quirk called a Rayleigh (or Weibull) Distribution. Essentially, the mean, median and modal wind velocities are enuf different to skew the classic bell curve. The curve is squished to the left, with a long right-hand tail. The wind spends most of its time (mode) below average (mean) wind speed, but when it's over the the mean, it's WAY over mean speed -- enuf to distort the average. So a 12mph 'average' location will see 9mph much of the time, with perhaps 1-2% of hours honking at 35.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

I prefer the KISS ... only downside is that you need more than about 8kts. of wind to start it turning.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Friday I bought my new wind generator, a Sunforce 600.
Put it up yesterday and wired it up today.

Theres not much wind today so its difficult to see if its working.
I saw 8 amps for a few seconds in a gust of about 15 knots, but generally 1 or 2 amps cos I am in a protected bay.

The noise made by the blades is fine, but I am getting a low pitch moan thats clearly audable in the aft cabin. So I will call customer support tomorrow to see if thats normal. (Ummmm, there is no one in the aft cabin...)

And tonight I hope theres a few gusts to see what its doing without all the solar pannel interference.


As for the comments about buying an expensive one, I am not spending $2,000 one something I only need to dig out 4 amps at night in trade winds. $900 was enough.

For CaptA. I promise not to park next to you.:batter Is 50 meters far enough away? :laugher


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## timor-bound (Jun 15, 2013)

We have the earliest version of the AiR Breeze and like it a lot. Make sure you have your voltage set correctly. We had it too low and weren't getting everything out of it that we could for a while. Also, make sure that you use a really big gauge wire to connect it to your batteries if it is a long run. You really lose a lot of capability with undersized cable. We live on the hook, and don't have the luxury of shore power, so I really like our windgen. Its nice to wake up with full batteries first thing in the morning. Makes sleeping in a bumpy anchorage worth it.


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## prior (May 3, 2008)

I was just in Key West. Saw and heard many wind generators working in 10kts. The Rutlands were silent. So silent I was checking out an arch and did not even notice the wind generator. What I was really impressed with was what I believe was an Air X with blue blades. Not as quiet as the Rutlands but very close. I am looking for one now.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I do wonder whether wind generators are worth the bother. I admit I am rubbish when it comes to electrical gear but I've long wondered just how effective a wind genny is. 

Recently we had our solar die. Still havn't sorted that out but this is not the place to discuss that issue except that until we get it fixed we rely on our Air X to keep batteries topped up. With no solar I can at last get an idea as to how effective the Air X is. Yesterday we had 10 - 15 knots of wind and the input from the Air X varied between 2 - 3 amps. That seems a bit piss poor given the noise and physical size of the equipment or am I being overly critical ?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

prior said:


> I was just in Key West. Saw and heard many wind generators working in 10kts. The Rutlands were silent. So silent I was checking out an arch and did not even notice the wind generator. What I was really impressed with was what I believe was an Air X with blue blades. Not as quiet as the Rutlands but very close. I am looking for one now.


Prior .... if I'm correct the blue blades are not original equipment. The SilentWind people sell the blue blades with an adaptor to fit onto an Air X. Their claim is that this makes for a quieter Air X (I think that is true) though not as quiet as an actual Silent Wind.

http://www.silentwindgenerator.com/en


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

tdw said:


> Yesterday we had 10 - 15 knots of wind and the input from the Air X varied between 2 - 3 amps. That seems a bit piss poor given the noise and physical size of the equipment or am I being overly critical ?


Perhaps you Air X is suffering from a case of broken wind?

sorry..... long day...


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## prior (May 3, 2008)

That's interesting. I had a very old Windbugger, heavy (40 lbs) and dangerous but it was quiet and at 15 kts put out as I recall a measured 10 amps at least. I am installing 400 watts of solar and am considering wind back up but 3 amps in 10kts it would hardly be worth it?


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