# WiFi - Onboard Internet & Networking Your Boat



## jandy (Mar 19, 2009)

This post is for discussion purposes only. I am not selling anything or advertising anything for sale. This post is for those who are interested in learning about high quality. high power, long range vessel WiFi systems, networking your boat, etc and wish to learn more about wireless Internet services in general and to share the information with others.

As far as WiFi service and internet in general, most people don't really seem to know what is going on in the industry because they (the industry) don't tell us ahead of time what is coming, well not the lay persons anyway. It's a real job just to find things out and i have found out a bunch over the years and my journeys through cyber space and equipment Hell, so here's some knowledge to share.

There are so many wierd choices out there, strange boxes, low power-high claims, cell units, "booster's", "extenders", etc. I have an Apple iPhone which is great and offers better internet capability than any other cell phone out there, but still, it's nothing compared to a laptop connected to good, strong WiFi signal access. Especially important for sending and receiving attachments, downloading pdf's, watching videos, free SKYPE calling (VoIP Phone) and what not. Satellite is WAY too expensive and "little plug-in cards" are just that, keyword "little" - because that's what you get!! Don't get me wrong though, SAT internet is great and needed for sure for bluewater crossings IF you must send and receive text only email on the way or in remote places. Still to slow for attachments and large VoIP Internet telephones, etc. Higher speed SAT dishes do a real good job but you are looking in to 10's of thousands of dollars to buy and a small fortune to use on a continuing basis.

For WiFi, Don't be fooled. There is no need to spend $1,000. $1,500, $2,000 or more on a system, and even those, are low power compared to the new PORTSIDE802 WiFi unit I have. I have blown a lot of money on bad equipment, funky cards, antennas and the such. Glad THAT'S over.

After extensive, exhausting research, I was lucky enough to come in contact with the manufacturer of these new high power WiFi transmitter/receivers through a friend of a relative and ended up a beta tester in return to offering my review and results and I can say, the search is OVER. IT'S FANTASTIC!! I used to see maybe 5 or 10 available signals with my SENAO/ENGENIOUS and now I see 50 to 100 and the SPEED is GREAT!! (depending where I am) The range is rated at 7 miles. I think these will be the new standard for many, many years to come. By the way, WiFi is here to stay for a very long time and WiFi units are as easy to install as a VHF or a GPS and the antennas are marine grade white fiberglass so they look pretty good on the boat too. These units aren't on the market yet, but they say by mid May or June 1 to start shipping. I feel the day has finally come for affordable, powerful WiFi solutions, at last, so an investment in this type of gear will work great for many, many years to come.

The bottom line is the really expensive units either don't deliver the power for the money, have strange housings, weird power needs (48VDC) 110VAC, etc. And the little built-in antenna units don't do much at all unless you go sit next to the base on shore.

ALL worldwide WiFi operates on the 802.11 b & g, 2.4Ghz carrier wave standard. THE MAX legal power for Public IP (internet protocol) WiFi transmission is 30dBm or 1,000mW; FCC (USA/CAN)/CE (Europe)/TELEC (JAPAN) IEEE 802.11 b/g standard. 802 "N" is coming in about 2 years, and will offer slightly greater distance/signal range and use the 5gHz carrier wave frequency. This will also use different boxes and antennas rated for the platform use at 5Ghz standard.

"N" will be backwards compatible to G as G is to B and N to B ,etc. All these standards are here for a very long time to come. N equipment is a ways off though. The USA is just catching on with free WiFi, (internet in general actually compared to the rest of the world) but the rest of the world has free WiFi pretty much every where you go. AND Systems in place now (worldwide), are being upgraded to higher power from 200mW to 500mW units, up to 800mW and 1000mW units as the demands of the net's ability & systems and users, dictate the need for more powerful signals and data rates (speed).

Maybe a little less confusing . . .I hope, Anyway, feel free to ask questions about signals, antennas, power ratings, brands, AP (access points), connection speeds, Hot Spot locations, etc., I have become very familiar with pretty much everything out there now and it CAN be a confusing subject. I would be happy to discuss my passed experiences and things to steer clear of. My onboard system is a long range Wifi unit (12V box) connected with Low Loss LMR400 equivalent RF cable to a 12dBi antenna (47" - stern rail mount) in to a LinkSys WG54, to 4, laptops (wireless), a portable HP printer (with the wireless option), and an iPhone - works pretty good. A note to remember, when buying gear, look at mW for dollar ratio and power supply. Long range WiFi gear and vessel network WiFi HUBs should be 12V capable. Don't worry about amps, they draw very little anyway. With a good LinkSys WG54xx, you get both wireless to the whole boat for all devices, laptops, VoIP phones, Wifi enabled cell phones, printers, etc., you also get 4 or more ethernet channels for other stuff and your onboard NAV gear.

That's it for now, Safe sail all . . . . . . . . . . hail with Q's on systems and networking if you like.

JANDY clear


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## bardia (Mar 22, 2009)

Thanks for the post Jandy. I'm looking to set myself up for a pacific cruise and would like to be able to update a website, send photos etc... I could probably do this at established ports, and not sure if WiFi would be readily available. Could I get a list of places with WiFi?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

While amplified antennas are useful and all, they're really not the best solution on a boat, since the gain from the antenna is usually eaten up by the length of the coax cable. A much better solution for boats is usually an high-gain antenna with an integrated WiFi to ethernet bridge, which has very little signal loss between the antenna and the WiFi transceiver. The better units will use POE to carry both power and data to the unit, like the Ubiqiti NanoStation, and only require a single cable for wiring.

A good primer on WiFi security and what a lot of the terms are is located *here*.

As for free WiFi hotspots, there is a good database of them at jiwire.com

BTW, the unit mentioned in the first post is not a great unit, given the price. You can get a NanoStation 2 and a Linksys WRT 54G together for under $200, where the new Portside unit is $500.


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## jandy (Mar 19, 2009)

*More WiFi gab - for serious power and reception*

I agree with sailingdog but only to a certain degree. The Ubiquiti 5 has less power than the PASSPORT802.ULTRA, and costs more. Also keep in mind, little devices are for close in and are not for Internet users with "serious needs" such as full, normal Internet speeds for needs like such things as large file needs, VoIP telephones (free voice over Internet telephone), WiFi telephones, SKYPE calling free worldwide and/or SKYPE FTP (direct point to point file transfer protocol - files from you to them or visa versa without email and servers in the way), Video streaming, streaming audio, gaming, etc. As far as the LinkSys WG54 at $40 to$50 with both 4 ethernet channels and WiFi networking on the boat (mine is 12V rigged too), I feel it is both fairly priced and very functional. And since their acquisition by CISCO, the quality is very good, works great for me, but there are a lot of HUB brands out there to choose from that are all very good and fairly priced.

At 500mW burst rate, for a small USB unit, the PASSPORT802.ULTRA is best thing I have seen out there - BUT - I am in need of "serious" high power, long range and high data rate to provide serious on-line connection and sometimes, at considerable distance. These little ones are OK and you can get in to a system for about $150 or so, depending on the antenna you choose (which is critical). And work OK when in the marina near the AP.

As far as antenna "boosters" They are "snake oil" This does nothing for increased dBi to enable greater reception for inbound signal. antenna element configurations are fixed, so you can add boosting to outbound, but your sensitivity is not increased, nor can it be at all. Another thing is there are different antennas out there at varied pricing. A friend of mine has been making antennas since 1970 and although they are not making digital acquisition antennas, they are a wealth of information and make REALLY good antennas, you may of heard of them, MORAD - SEATTLE

The price issue is due to mainly one thing regardless of dBi/dBm rating. That is, the cheaper ones are stainless steel elements/exciters and the more expensive ones are pure copper. Both are fiberglass or poly encased.* You can guess which is better.

"IN MY OPINION": The BEST way to go is a 12V DC powered, high power transmitter/receiver unit with a real good antenna, 12dbi is real good at 47" -* the 15dBi is a little higher gain and is 62", I have the 47" and it is GREAT. These units are not necessarily "line of sight" required, because they are very powerful transmitters and very sensitive antennas. Both of which are key ingredients to real "nice" Internet WiFi.

Signals EVERYWHERE! Anywhere in Puget Sound, and many places through the inside passage, and South East Alaska, even going up and down the Pacific Coast. Needless to say, marinas everywhere, and cities (waterfront), worldwide. Some are for pay, some are for free. In the rest of the world, it's all free. In the USA, it's hit and miss but getting better all the time. Free WiFi in the USA is coming, it's just taking a longer time than out in the rest of the world. Most people here still believe the USA is ahead of the rest of the world in everything - nothing further from the truth, especially in high tech.

These boxes run about $600 or so (depending on the antenna) to set up and are as easy to install as a VHF and you DO NOT need to go to the top of the mast. They are best on the stern rail or radar bridge. The box goes below, anywhere - 9.5" by 10.5" by 3" or so. (outdoor marine grade too)

These units use your browser application to go in to the internal computer inside the device and configure it as "Client" Mode.* You LOG IN to the box and set it up YOUR WAY.* This enables you to search for signals, or set it to be dedicated to a specific service, search enabled is best to find any signal/provider. So, you have control of the unit, no software upgrades ever, and they are as powerful as FCC, CE, TELEC IEEE 802.11 b/g allows and work worldwide.

The bottom line is, search them all. COMPARE WHAT YOU GET. Power and sensitivity for the dollar. These real powerful (overpriced) units are mostly found at over $1,000 and to many thousands, period. You will never see a signal when coastal and see seriously low data rates with the smaller "little" units. they have there place and are inexpensive, but if you want and need real power and longevity in an on-board WiFi solution, the little ones will not suffice.

Additionally, the air-dielectric foam, double-braid, hollow core copper, LOW LOSS - LMR400DB is the best interface available in the world - period. Although RG213 is OK, nothing compares to LMR - this also applies to your VHF and SSB to Tuner interface, pre-GTO. The little units are on ly RG59U or 56 or equivalent and are unable to pass the same level of data the better RF cable interfaces carry. Just is not going to happen

SERIOUS UNIT EXAMPLE: The SYXXXXS $649.00 box is 200mW, (and is huge), (the 500 is $1400 I think, not sure, I don't bother looking any more), the PORTSIDE802 is 1,000mW burst with 800mW constant minimum outbound transmission, 12V DC, PoE Injected CAT5 interface. These are rated at; 29.8 dBm (outbound) --* 30dBm is the MAX FCC (USA-CAN)/CE- EU)/TELEC(JAPAN) legal to market and use.

THE PLATFORM: The 802.11 b/g platform is here to stay. And, just as VHF Public Marine Band power is limited to 25 Watts, the FCC standard on the 802.11 b/g WiFi, is basically carved in stone, so that's what we get and that's that, for a LONG time to come.

There are NO "little" USB units, "Booster Things" or other magical solutions for cheap that will provide this long range ability-period. In physics we say - RF is RF, digital or analog, I/O power and sensitivity - is King.

You make a decision on a unit, based your need and your budget. I only post this because I have seen so much high priced junk (and purchased a lot of it) and false claims gear out there. (or no information stuff - just "buy us")

Good luck on your hunt . . . . I'll be on-line,

JANDY clear


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

JANDY—

You're beginning to sound like an advertisement for the 802 marine products, which are overpriced junk IMHO. I'm also beginning to think you don't know what you're talking about, since Ubiqiti doesn't have a product called the Ubiqiti 5 AFAIK. 

A Ubiqiti PicoStation 2HP has more power and a simpler installation than the Passport 802.Ultra. The configuration is a bit more complicated, but that isn't a big deal, given the additional flexibility the device provides. A POE device, like the PicoStation 2HP is a much better idea for a boat, since it can be hoisted further aloft without issue than can any USB based device. To get the USB based device further than 15' off the deck, you'd need an amplified USB cable, where a POE device is good for at least 50' in most cases.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

jandy said:


> This post is for discussion purposes only. I am not selling anything or advertising anything for sale. This post is for those who are interested in learning about high quality. high power, long range vessel WiFi systems, networking your boat, etc and wish to learn more about wireless Internet services in general and to share the information with others.
> 
> As far as WiFi service and internet in general, most people don't really seem to know what is going on in the industry because they (the industry) don't tell us ahead of time what is coming, well not the lay persons anyway. It's a real job just to find things out and i have found out a bunch over the years and my journeys through cyber space and equipment Hell, so here's some knowledge to share.
> 
> ...


Jandy,

You are new here and we don't know much about you. The majority of your few posts have concerned the product you discuss above.

So I need to ask: Do you have any commercial interest in or connection to these 802Marine products?


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

JRP
From jandys first poste here: "I was lucky enough to come in contact with the manufacturer of these new high power WiFi transmitter/receivers through a friend of a relative and ended up a beta tester in return to offering my review and results and I can say, the search is OVER"

So does he have a commercial connection? Yes, sort of.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Chances are someone saying they were a beta-tester is being a bit less than open about what they're relationship to the company really is. That's just the cynic in me though.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

sd-
While I take serious disagreement with some of what jandy says (four ethernet CHANNELS?? No, four PORTS.) there are indeed web sites advertising a ubiquiti 5. Dunno if it exists, but I have seen web ads for it.
But...confusion is rampant, why try to buck the tide?

Like the 802.11n standard, which has been just six months away, for the last three years.


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## jandy (Mar 19, 2009)

*WiFi from the clueless aka "Yeah Right, There's Broadband in Water"*

OR?? Cheapest is BEST - Right?? Oh crap, wrong Forum . . . . . I though this was for RV's . . . . . . . . .lol

TO QOUTE; "You're beginning to sound like an advertisement for the 802 marine products, which are overpriced junk IMHO. I'm also beginning to think you don't know what you're talking about, since Ubiqiti doesn't have a product called the Ubiqiti 5 AFAIK"

For sailing dog edification and everyone else's entertainment:

Sorry sailingdog, these commercial units are not on the market yet. But YOU know they are junk right? Is this true colors times??

You say "junk" Oh what's that inside?? The chip sets for both manufacturers, come from the same OEM. That would be, Atheros and the solder ball work for the mother boards, are the same OEM too. Hmmmmmm. Oh, that.

But I don't know what I am doing, just relying on stats on-line and experts words.

As "YOU" mentioned, the Ubiquiti Networks NanoStation I assumed you meant the 5, their best one not the 2) in your previous note, So, I took a look to see it on their site - and there it IS!!, little PoE thing, $79.00 Oh - and there's the 5 that does not exist and so it doesn't cost $89.00 (both available at hundreds of sites including XXXXX dot com)

And as you say only needs "one wire" and doesn't need the required 2 CAT5 ethernet cables, a PoE injector and a power supply they state in their specs. And although it does not exist, it is rated at 26dbM which is great, nice little unit. (IF it existed, as seen at their site under NaoStations)

the PASSPORT802.ULTRA's are $59.00 MSRP Which has no installation, USB plug and play. Completely different animal. Take it out of your pocket and plug it in, turn on your computer and go. 10 foot USB ext, no problem. It is not the same device or cost but does offers the ability to add an antenna via RP SMA for a little greater signal strength. These are FCC Certified; 28dBm

Maybe my math is different here but it seems that 59 is 30 less than 89.

PASSPORT802 is a 200mW is $39.99 USB plug and play, super compact, really convenient too - there are several out there like these. These are rated at FCC Certified; 23dBm

Also no set up, plug and play, USB and go anywhere IS NOT 2 ethernet cables and a PoE injector and an external power supply.

Now let's see $39.00 - $79.00, $39.00 - $79.00, $39.00 - $79.00 hmmmmm, oh well, I'll have to get back to this later - I need a calculator.

Different devices completely. So . . oh well.

I am sure these are all real good, but I have not seen anything that cheap with that power rating or convenience - thus I just thought I would talk about them. (but I don't have clue anyway)

And of course there's that Ubiquiti Networks SR71-USB WLAN !!! - at only $113.00

Let's see, I guess that's 5 times as much as the PASPORT802 ?? (lol, Sorry had to do it, just trying to imitate geo bush)

And how about that BBX gear folks?? THE GOOD STUFF!!

BBX - 500mW Client/ WLAN Bridge, ONLY $899.00, CAT5 ethernet PoE injector and the perverbial antenna extra required. 110V AC of course (now that's covenient) PoE CAT 5 cables, power supply, etc. INCLUDED!! (just a buck)

AND THE HIGH PRICE AWARD WINNER IS:

The BBX - 100mW USB unit for $89.00 !! A USB plug and play unit, nice and compact too, but really spendy for the what you get. ($40 all over the net and eBay too)

The "PORTSIDE802" I believe is marketed as a lesser cost commercial grade solution to the really expensive commercial duty boxes, not the little ones for in close in use and certainly not "hoist it up the mast" types And they have a built in router option and are AP configurable as servers. I think that's the PASSPORT units - little USB devices you should have been comparing to sailingdog. I don't see many Ubiquiti NanoStations or PicoStations pinned up on Marina roofs serving signals to hundreds of vessels or mounted on ClearWire, AT&T and SPRINT towers.

And for those who are interested, the engineers tell me the jumps between 500mW, 600mW up to 1,000mW are huge steps that require completely different chip sets for each of the incremental steps up. But what do they know. Engineers, phooey, what do they know. By the way, when I asked them about the chip sets, they said Ubiquiti products are real good stuff, just a different market and application focus and a little more expensive - but good stuff for their market. Am I promoting 802Marine stuff ?? I guess I am and let me ADD !!! FURUNO, MAXSEA, MAPTECH, ICOM, GPSNavX, XAXERO, GLOBAL MARINE NETWORKS, DIGITAL ANTENNA, MORAD, IRIDIUM, ANCOR, LINKSYS, HP, CARL ZEISS, NIKON and SONY-no bologna) !!! GOOD STUFF AND EXPENSIVE TOO. Oh yeah, PORT TOWNSEND SAILS TOO!!! THAT'S WHAT I HAVE ON MY BOAT. THAT'S WHAT I USE. I DO NOT USE GARMIN or SNOOGYLOOGY OR . . . .

BUT now, I hear mentioned a NEW previously UNMENTIONED device in the last post, the Ubiquiti PicoStation 2HP. And you just hoist it up the stick.

Now that's what I call convenient (lol)

Maybe you need to read a little closer, I did not compare or endorse or wish to "advertise" the PASSPORT802.ULTRA (but at the price, it's a great little device) BUT is not the same as the Ubiquiti 2 or 5 - as stated, different animal, different application.

I'll put it in my son's word's after he read this thread: "dude, 2 completely different products and applications . . . . . . " I will leave out the rest. Well, he's only 35 and a little wet behind the ears - but you otta see him type, pretty damn fast!

So since I don't know what I am talking about, I suggest people go to the Ubiquiti site and check out all of the products they make (that don't exist of course - good stuff for the market as far as I am told and as i can see)

As i said before: It's confusing and you need to look CLOSELY at the specs, and the prices. USB ?/ CAT 5 PoE?? external antenna, long range box or pocket take it with you when you go. Who are you and what do you need?? "I stay in the Marina", "I go out now and then", i am going coastal and inland", "I am blue water rigged, world traveling" Check em all out and config for budget and application..

As far as your (sailingdog's) weird statement "I do not know what I am talking about" i think what you mean is the manufacturers and engineers I talk to "don't know what THEY are talking about" I am just a consumer, and do not claim to an expert, just a hard core shopper with a with a boat and a high tech background in other completely unrelated passive audio electronics fields. Just a Note: I DO know this, you will find that I do not post a reply to every thread on every subject in every Forum category on the sailnet site.

Forums are cool and everything, but i am trying hard to have a life.

Oh well, I am happy, my PORTSIDE802 box works great and I have one single nice LMR400DB cable going out to the antenna just like my VHF and my DSLREPORTS DOT COM data throughput tests results are "rockin"!!! and i get signals everywhere i go up and down the greater Puget Sound region and up and down the Pacific Coast.

Safe sail all . . . .


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Jandy, you must type really fast because you're awfully long winded on a product that isn't on the market yet.



> For sailing dog edification and everyone else's entertainment:
> 
> Sorry sailingdog, these commercial units are not on the market yet. But YOU know they are junk right? Is this true colors times??


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## JimHawkins (Aug 25, 2006)

JohnRPollard said:


> Jandy,
> 
> You are new here and we don't know much about you. The majority of your few posts have concerned the product you discuss above.
> 
> So I need to ask: Do you have any commercial interest in or connection to these 802Marine products?


I knew the Pollard would be on this one. Go get 'em John! Fair warning Jandy. The sailnet gurus will get you. And if he isn't banned for lying about his relationship to the product, he should be banned for being rude.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

jandy said:


> OR?? Cheapest is BEST - Right?? Oh crap, wrong Forum . . . . . I though this was for RV's . . . . . . . . .lol
> 
> TO QOUTE; "You're beginning to sound like an advertisement for the 802 marine products, which are overpriced junk IMHO. I'm also beginning to think you don't know what you're talking about, since Ubiqiti doesn't have a product called the Ubiqiti 5 AFAIK"
> 
> ...


The product is called the NanoStation 5, not the Ubiqiti 5, which is what you said. If you're not typing the full name, I don't see how any one is supposed to understand you.

I'd also point out that 5 GHz is preferred for outdoor solutions, as 5 GHz technology generally is far more easily attenuated by atmospheric conditions and is generally far shorter ranged than the 2.4 GHz equipment.



> And as you say only needs "one wire" and doesn't need the required 2 CAT5 ethernet cables, a PoE injector and a power supply they state in their specs. And although it does not exist, it is rated at 26dbM which is great, nice little unit. (IF it existed, as seen at their site under NaoStations)
> 
> the PASSPORT802.ULTRA's are $59.00 MSRP Which has no installation, USB plug and play. Completely different animal. Take it out of your pocket and plug it in, turn on your computer and go. 10 foot USB ext, no problem. It is not the same device or cost but does offers the ability to add an antenna via RP SMA for a little greater signal strength. These are FCC Certified; 28dBm
> 
> ...


Yes, it is USB, but if you want to use it more than 16' from the computer, you need an amplfiied USB cable. You're basically ignoring what I wrote. I'd also point out that most of the driver issues that crop up are with the USB-based network equipment, and I doubt that these guys can avoid those same problems since no one else has. The Nanostation 2, which is the only product I've recommended, use an ethernet connection and installs NO DRIVERS... so it is even simpler in many ways.



> Now let's see $39.00 - $79.00, $39.00 - $79.00, $39.00 - $79.00 hmmmmm, oh well, I'll have to get back to this later - I need a calculator.
> 
> Different devices completely. So . . oh well.
> 
> ...


Again, you're comparing apples to oranges. Yes, the NanoStation2 is more expensive, but it does more... and works better.



> And how about that BBX gear folks?? THE GOOD STUFF!!
> 
> BBX - 500mW Client/ WLAN Bridge, ONLY $899.00, CAT5 ethernet PoE injector and the perverbial antenna extra required. 110V AC of course (now that's covenient) PoE CAT 5 cables, power supply, etc. INCLUDED!! (just a buck)
> 
> ...


I didn't recommend the BBX, so you're pulling stuff out of your backside, just for the sake of argument.



> The "PORTSIDE802" I believe is marketed as a lesser cost commercial grade solution to the really expensive commercial duty boxes, not the little ones for in close in use and certainly not "hoist it up the mast" types And they have a built in router option and are AP configurable as servers. I think that's the PASSPORT units - little USB devices you should have been comparing to sailingdog. I don't see many Ubiquiti NanoStations or PicoStations pinned up on Marina roofs serving signals to hundreds of vessels or mounted on ClearWire, AT&T and SPRINT towers.
> 
> And for those who are interested, the engineers tell me the jumps between 500mW, 600mW up to 1,000mW are huge steps that require completely different chip sets for each of the incremental steps up. But what do they know. Engineers, phooey, what do they know. By the way, when I asked them about the chip sets, they said Ubiquiti products are real good stuff, just a different market and application focus and a little more expensive - but good stuff for their market. Am I promoting 802Marine stuff ?? I guess I am and let me ADD !!! FURUNO, MAXSEA, MAPTECH, ICOM, GPSNavX, XAXERO, GLOBAL MARINE NETWORKS, DIGITAL ANTENNA, MORAD, IRIDIUM, ANCOR, LINKSYS, HP, CARL ZEISS, NIKON and SONY-no bologna) !!! GOOD STUFF AND EXPENSIVE TOO. Oh yeah, PORT TOWNSEND SAILS TOO!!! THAT'S WHAT I HAVE ON MY BOAT. THAT'S WHAT I USE. I DO NOT USE GARMIN or SNOOGYLOOGY OR . . . .
> 
> ...


From your rabid defense of the products that aren't even on the market, I'm guessing that you have some involvement greater than that of a beta tester. My background is in network engineering and I've been using the wireless equipment since Lucent first came out with their 900 MHz stuff, prior to the "WiFi" standard being ratified.

A Nanostation 2 and a Linksys WRT54G combined is about $120 or so, while the PORTSIDE802 you mention appears to retail for $500, according to the only website that actually mentions the product by name.

I also noticed that someone with the same user name has been posting about the PORTSIDE802 on Cruiser's Forum, which I doubt is a coincidence.

I'd also point out that the industry press generally hears about products that are worthwhile a few months in advance of their release and generally reviews them before they come out. Oddly, there have been no articles or reviews on any of the crap you're posting about-probably because it either doesn't exist or is actually someone else's hardware that is being re-marketed to the marine market at a significant price markup.


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## jandy (Mar 19, 2009)

*Yep, you got me . .. .*

Well I give up

Sorry, but I was given a box to use, but not money to use it. Just real happy with the results I achieved and thought I would share it and sorry again for "Channels" of course they are PORTS but I was not being as focused as i should have been.

I would love to rep these WiFi products though, nut they are a small company and have no room for an old man. i would not think of telling them to look at this thread though, they would not understand not being able to speak openly about products. everyone I know are live-aboard's and depend on the wireless platform, so, we all talk about what we find out and pass it on, in any subjects sailing and boating related.

The guys I met doing the marine products were wireless engineers for AT&T, ClearWire and SPRINT network stuff. The units they make are "commercial grade" Just wanted to talk about WiFi - sorry for sounding "commercial" I an expert at buying bad gear for high dollars. Guess there's a bunch of better gear than I could find, in my years of searching. I do wish they did paid me, but they did give me a box, so I guess that iI got paid.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Jandy,

You typed quite a bit last night, but I can't find where you directly answered my question concerning your commercial connection to this product.

We need to hear back from you on that.



JohnRPollard said:


> Jandy,
> 
> You are new here and we don't know much about you. The majority of your few posts have concerned the product you discuss above.
> 
> So I need to ask: Do you have any commercial interest in or connection to these 802Marine products?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

JRP—

I think he's in denial about his connection to the product. He says it isn't commercially available yet, yet still manages to defend it like the Knights Templar and Jerusalem.  He's also not using any logical or rational argument to counter my points about his "hardware".


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## JimHawkins (Aug 25, 2006)

John,
I think you should broaden your question to:

"Do you, your friends, or your relatives have any commercial interest..."


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

It's difficult to make a decision to ban someone for misleading behaviour without a smoking gun but in a case like this I wonder whether he needs banning.

Let's face it SD has, in his own ubiquitous fashion , flayed the poor bugger within an inch of his life. 

Or at least I think he has cos I don't really understand what either of them are talking about but I've found that in matters computer technical there is little to be gained from disagreeing with the Dog. It's a bit like arguing politics with Sway. 

So have at him Dog. Thats if there is anything left to have.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Hi Fuzzy...


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## pschoonveld (Sep 9, 2005)

Hey sailingdog,

Ubiquity's site wasn't terribly helpful, but I saw mention elsewhere that the NanoStation could run as a bridge or a repeater. Why would you need the LinkSys if it can run as a bridge.

I've been thinking about something like this for a bit and it looks like Ubiquity has a ton of options.


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## OsmundL (Nov 11, 2008)

Jandy, I cannot leave this alone. The more I read, more the fog thickens.
Confessions first: I started, own and act as Chairman of an ISP delivering broadband via wireless, many years ago using 802/b, now WiMax, and we install home networks all over the place. I have put WiFi on my boat.

Your solution is way expensive and unnecessary. To establish WiFi onboard and receive/transmit, you need an AP (Access Point) or Bridge from almost any major manufacturer. Cost $100 or less. End of story, until you want stronger signals.

For stronger signals, buy a bigger, passive antenna and run coax to the AP. I went overboard and got a 21dB round beam, which should theoretically receive _and_ transmit a couple of miles with the above AP. You can do with less.

The AP point already has (cabled) Ethernet out, so to hook up PCs and the like you really need no more. For pure luxury, I added an Airport Express to run an indoor wireless net, but on a small boat, is that needed?

Apart from the very large antennas, all this is standard home equipment, and inexpensive. To me, the attempt to sell "marine" systems is profiteering on some innocent sailor's belief that radio waves must be different at sea. Bunkum all the way. Some might say "what about voltages?" but most of us already have converter solutions, and in any case if you're smart, eliminate the AP's supplied external power supply and go directly from the batteries - just match the DC volts needed. Some might say "IPX standards? What about waterproofing?" and my answer is "Why? The box is so cheap I'd keep it till it dies rather than pay twice for waterproofing; your onboard PC is likely of the same IPX class, but do you worry?"

Smear jelly over the coax fittings, and the antenna is waterproof. If cabling indoors for Ethernet, use the black outdoors Cat6 cable.

I won't go into a number of factual errors, but quickly: the 802 "n" standard has been with us for a long time. It may lack final official "standard" status, but all vendors from Apple to Linksys, Zyxel and TrendNet have had it in their boxes for at least a year. As for max allowed strength of antennas, 30dB is _not_ a global standard. In my country the limit is 21dB, in others it varies.

For those interested in futures, look out for LTE and WiMax. Apart from Tonga and such, these nets mostly emanating from mobile phone telcos will soon match and supercede WiFi for most of us.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The Linksys would be only necessary if you wanted to: 1) provide an on-board wifi network for multiple laptops to use...2) connect multiple devices with hardwired-Ethernet to the WiFi network.

A good use of the first one is to provide other boats without a long-range WiFi antenna setup access to the WiFi network you're bridging.

A lot of newer nav hardware, like Garmin's higher end chartplotters, radar, etc., are ethernet equipped and need to be networked.


pschoonveld said:


> Hey sailingdog,
> 
> Ubiquity's site wasn't terribly helpful, but I saw mention elsewhere that the NanoStation could run as a bridge or a repeater. Why would you need the LinkSys if it can run as a bridge.
> 
> I've been thinking about something like this for a bit and it looks like Ubiquity has a ton of options.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The one point I'd make is that long runs of coax tend to defeat the purpose of using an amplified antenna. You're much better off using something that has the antenna close to the active electronics to minimize the losses of signal strength. This is why I recommend the Ubiquiti NanoStation 2. It has the WiFi receiver built into the antenna housing, leaving little coax signal loss. The USB devices do much the same, but a POE device like the NanoStation can be positioned further away from the computer and power supply without having to resort to a signal amplifying cable, as is required for USB. While you can't get 100 meters out of a POE setup, you can get 30-40' up the mast pretty typically.



OsmundL said:


> Jandy, I cannot leave this alone. The more I read, more the fog thickens.
> Confessions first: I started, own and act as Chairman of an ISP delivering broadband via wireless, many years ago using 802/b, now WiMax, and we install home networks all over the place. I have put WiFi on my boat.
> 
> Your solution is way expensive and unnecessary. To establish WiFi onboard and receive/transmit, you need an AP (Access Point) or Bridge from almost any major manufacturer. Cost $100 or less. End of story, until you want stronger signals.
> ...


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## OsmundL (Nov 11, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> The one point I'd make is that long runs of coax tend to defeat the purpose of using an amplified antenna.


Absolutely. I keep it simple: the antenna lives in a fishing rod holder on the rail when in harbor, with a short run coax of less than 20ft. No need for amplification, and these antennas do not need to sit high up.

Instead of amplifying, use thicker coax. The issue is parallel to that of VHF, where many have RG58 running up the mast. When the mast is 50ft and more, you'll do better with RG213. For reference: at least in my country, commercial vessels will not have their VHF approved if the cable is RG58 and cable length exceeds 65ft.
I use way thicker again to my WiFi.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

xort said:


> JRP
> From jandys first poste here: "I was lucky enough to come in contact with the manufacturer of these new high power WiFi transmitter/receivers through a friend of a relative and ended up a beta tester in return to offering my review and results and I can say, the search is OVER"
> 
> So does he have a commercial connection? Yes, sort of.


Xort,

Yes, I saw that. But something about it didn't sound right to me. And then Jandy went on to say (redacted for brevity, emphasis added):



jandy said:


> ....
> Sorry sailingdog, these commercial units are not on the market yet. But YOU know they are junk right? Is this true colors times??
> 
> ....
> ...


Which he followed with this post (emphasis added):



jandy said:


> Well I give up
> 
> *Sorry, but I was given a box to use, but not money to use it. Just real happy with the results I achieved and thought I would share it *and sorry again for "Channels" of course they are PORTS but I was not being as focused as i should have been.
> 
> ...


While Jandy did not respond to my direct inquirey about his commercial interest in this product, he has more than intimated in the above quoted material that he does not have one.

However, we went back a bit and reviewed one of his first posts to SailNet. You can see the post here:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/51333-wifi-3.html#post464621

We had to edit that post to remove commercial content. Here's how it originally read (emphasis added):



jandy said:


> *Marine WiFi -The Good, The Bad and The Un-reasonably Priced*
> 
> I am a blue water sailor/owner gearing up my 50' Sparkman Stephens sloop for world travel. I have an extensive background in computers, servers, electronics, optical fibre networks, broadcasting, manufacturing and the such. Becoming very unhappy with the SAD STATE of the whole marine WiFi hardware and services situation; poor config's, HIGH priced-low quality gear, seeing confusing and BAD information from individuals all over the net that have no idea what they are talking about, extremely expensive SAT systems and well, you know the rest, etc. *I decided to design and build my own system. Well, low and behold, one thing lead to another and i ended up working with several OEM's around the world and locally for mother boards and power supplies. marine ABS housings and component manufacturing and have become a manufacturer, without originally intending to do so. Long story short, the product line is called 802Marine™* NOT $2,500 or $2,000 or $1,500 - High power units are now being manufactured which will be $499.00 MSRP and sell for under that - They connect to a 12dBi or 15dBi 2.4 ghz antenna with LMR400DB White or ANCOR RG213 and work great - 7+ mile range - (We've seen signals at far greater distance too) Some of these things I read out there stating 4 or 6 watt systems - this is false information. The maximum allowed FCC (USA/Canada), CE (Europe) and TELEC (Japan) ISO's, under IEEE 802.11 b/g standards is; 1000mW. So don't be fooled. There is no need to spend THOUSANDS of dollars for real nice, super powerful WiFi system and connect it to your hub and wireless outfit your whole boat, other comps, printers, etc. Free WiFi is all over the world and coming soon to the USA, Canada and Caribbean - (if they like it not - free WiFi is sweeping the planet) Anyway, I am open to straight talk/answer any questions from anyone interested in what I am making or just talk on-board WiFi stuff in general. I can't post the site which is under final construction because I am new to sailnet but if you contact me through "Private Message" I will send pdf's and info on all of this stuff and more on what I am doing. Marine WiFi is now as important as your VHF and SSB (well, almost, you know what I mean) More later and we'll see you on the net/sea VERY soon. Oh yeah, nice little 500mW portable for going ashore - too!!!


So it appears we have our next Hall of Shame entry.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Would that not indicate that he has some connection to the company??? I would think that the person who designed and built the product line would be a part of the company??? Thanks for hunting the lying sack of S*** down... 

BTW, I have no financial or corporate relationship with the Ubiquiti products that I endorse, aside from having used them for about six months.  Have two more NS2's on order at the moment. 



> *I decided to design and build my own system. Well, low and behold, one thing lead to another and i ended up working with several OEM's around the world and locally for mother boards and power supplies. marine ABS housings and component manufacturing and have become a manufacturer, without originally intending to do so. Long story short, the product line is called 802Marine™*


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## AlbertaClipper (Apr 15, 2009)

To answer pschoonfeld's question, the Ubiqiti PicoStation2 can act as a wireless repeater in WDS (wireless distribution system) mode. However, this only works with another compatible WDS device configured specifically to talk WDS with your device. In short, it won't work with the shore Access Point you are connecting to.

Instead, you generally have to have your boat's high-powered WiFi station connect to a shore access point, and bridge or route the traffic to the hard-wire Ethernet port. Then, if you want to distribute wirelessly onboard, you need a second WiFi unit, for which many use a Linksys WiFi router.

The alternative to this is to use a WiFi unit with dual radios (in think Engenius makes one) or something like the Engenius EOC-2610, which has a feature called Universal Wireless Repeater that uses a single radio for both the shore connetion and it's own access point. 

I have an Engenius EOC-2610 configured this way. The only thing I don't like with it so far is that it needs 48Vdc.

Instead, I am trying out a Ubiquiti PicoStation2, even though it doesn't have a Universal Wireless Repeater feature, as I think it will run on the boat's 12Vdc system. Does anybody know where I can buy a Power-Over-Ethernet injector that will wire directly into the boat's 12Vdc system?


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## bareboatskipper (Dec 15, 2006)

Sailingdog, could you let a newbie know if his understanding is correct? 

I get a poor signal from the marina wifi to get my email and such. I want more bars, so I buy a Nanostation 2 for $79 from an appropriate vendor. I attach it to a rail or haul it up the stick using my courtesy flag halyard, depending on where I need it to get a good signal. I also need to get an ethernet cable of the appropriate length that runs down to my salon. "POE Supply and Injector Included" I take to mean that there is some power cord that I plug into 12V or 110V attached to a box that I plug the ethernet cable into to allow power to run to the Nanostation. I now plug an ethernet cable into the "injector" box to my laptop and am up and running? Or, I plug the ethernet cable into a Linksys WRT54G, and set up my laptop internal card to receive that network, is that right? Thanks in advance!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

bareboatskipper said:


> Sailingdog, could you let a newbie know if his understanding is correct?
> 
> I get a poor signal from the marina wifi to get my email and such. I want more bars, so I buy a Nanostation 2 for $79 from an appropriate vendor. I attach it to a rail or haul it up the stick using my courtesy flag halyard, depending on where I need it to get a good signal. I also need to get an ethernet cable of the appropriate length that runs down to my salon. "POE Supply and Injector Included" I take to mean that there is some power cord that I plug into 12V or 110V attached to a box that I plug the ethernet cable into to allow power to run to the Nanostation. I now plug an ethernet cable into the "injector" box to my laptop and am up and running? Or, I plug the ethernet cable into a Linksys WRT54G, and set up my laptop internal card to receive that network, is that right? Thanks in advance!


Pretty much spot on.  Any questions, let me know.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Spot on "but". Mainly "but" the POE cable may require a 48 volt power supply (!) which is usually a wall wart that needs 110/120VAC. The actual device may only require 12VDC or less, so it may be possible to replace the POE power wart with a simple nominal 12VDC (ships power) connection instead. Key words "may be" and you'd want to check that out.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

HS-

The power input for the NS2 is 12VDC @ 1A. Several friends of mine have theirs wired directly into the boat.  See the *NS2 Datasheet.*

I wouldn't be recommending the product if it couldn't operate on 12 VDC.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Formal POE wants 48V... but 12V works fine...!!!! current consumption is the big deal then... there are good, generic POE stuff sold on Ebay - if you want to look around... Just to let you know.....

There are some great comments from Sailingdog and OsmundL. 

I don't like running WiFi coax. bad idea.... if you can avoid it... POE is such a good, simple solution... 

FYI.... I don't run ISPs... But I **DO** design these type of products... :>

--jerry


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## Mandeville (Aug 25, 2012)

I am seeking advice about WI FI antennas on the waterways of Europe. Namely: Netherlands, Begium, France, the Med. & south coast of UK.

Thanks for any advice.

Regards, Mandeville


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## joeblack (Feb 1, 2017)

I managed to sort out my internet issues with few IT tricks over LTE and 3G. I have tested it in UK, Italy, Croatia and Greece and it works great with unlimited data not matter where I am and for free, even during crossing Adriatic didn't loose internet at any moment. I would never go for satellite internet because it's really to expensive for what is offering just to use it for crossings it's complete waste of money.
Also I managed to get IPTV to watch all channels from UK and rest of the world, so when it's raining I feel like at home inside the boat and my wife can watch Eastenders.
All together cost me around £150 for equipment and firmware I have rewriten by myself. So if anybody needs help how to do it contact me on [email protected] and I will be glad to help. I don't want to post it here in case of misuse.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

joeblack said:


> I managed to sort out my internet issues with few IT tricks over LTE and 3G. I have tested it in UK, Italy, Croatia and Greece and it works great with unlimited data not matter where I am and for free, even during crossing Adriatic didn't loose internet at any moment. I would never go for satellite internet because it's really to expensive for what is offering just to use it for crossings it's complete waste of money.
> Also I managed to get IPTV to watch all channels from UK and rest of the world, so when it's raining I feel like at home inside the boat and my wife can watch Eastenders.
> All together cost me around £150 for equipment and firmware I have rewriten by myself. So if anybody needs help how to do it contact me on [email protected] and I will be glad to help. I don't want to post it here in case of misuse.


Well, Joe, nice to be careful and all that.....just post it right up.
Internet service doesn't yet rank up there with holes in the hull...but it's getting closer...


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## joeblack (Feb 1, 2017)

RegisteredUser said:


> Well, Joe, nice to be careful and all that.....just post it right up.
> Internet service doesn't yet rank up there with holes in the hull...but it's getting closer...


I can explain how to do it over chat if you promise not to post it on internet.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

this info is very oudated. What are the current technologies.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

midwesterner said:


> this info is very oudated. What are the current technologies.


I have posted on this extensively elsewhere.

The big three WiFi range extension solutions are the Ubiquiti Bullet with a WiFi router inside the boat, the RedPort Halo and Optimizer, and the Microtik Groove with a WiFi router inside the boat. All are amenable to DIY installation for around $400. White the Bullet is the 800# gorilla in this area all three are equivalent in terms of performance. There are other brand names but many are relabeled Bullets with custom firmware; I'm not a fan of that approach as when you have to do a factory reset someday (and you will) you'll end up with the original Ubiquiti firmware and have a new learning curve.

For DIY you'll need a rudimentary understanding of computer networking or buy your kit from someone with good customer service. I sell the Halo and Optimizer. Bob Stewart at IslandTimePC.com sells the Groove. Both of us are cruisers who well understand boats. Bob's reputation for customer service is second to none. He is truly outstanding. My own approach is to set up all your equipment in my lab and ship it already configured.

There is a USB product from Alfa that works nicely for one computer (not for phones or tablets) that is a nice and very inexpensive adjunct. I use one when traveling for yards of range extension (as opposed to miles with the Bullet/Halo/Groove).

There is an all-in-one product called the Wirie which I do not recommend for technical performance reasons. I can elaborate if need be. Alternatively you can take my "WiFi Aboard" webinar at Seven Seas U.


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## Stu Jackson (Jul 28, 2001)

Active Captain did a writeup a year or so ago on using routers on board, check their posts.


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## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

At this marina they have a ban policy concerning such WiFi extenders ... according to the marina it disrupts their network... Yes we have WiFi police here..


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

aa3jy said:


> At this marina they have a ban policy concerning such WiFi extenders ... according to the marina it disrupts their network... Yes we have WiFi police here..


If a marina has a good WiFi network (which is rare) and signal strength is good and consistent throughout (which is rare) then WiFi range extenders should have their power turned way down to avoid disruption.

Some marinas that charge per device, regardless of how poor their coverage is, get cranky if you use a range extender to support a number of devices on a single account.


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