# Spot, DeLorme Trackers?



## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

I plan to sail south this fall. I am considering a Spot Tracker so that my wife will know my location, and get "We're Okay" messages if offshore. I don't have or want SSB or satellite phone. When inshore I can call or text. For emergencies I have an EPIRB. But I think it would be nice if she could check our progress when out of touch or outside cell coverage. Anyone use these? Like them, hate them? Prefer one over the other? Thanks.


----------



## MobiusALilBitTwisted (Jun 25, 2007)

I have a gen3 spot, got it to use on a trip to the Keys , use it on the road.(OTR driver)

I like it easy to use and was easy to set up the preset out going messages. The battery life was not a year as I was told by SPOT more like 5 months the usb power port works fine but is not water proof. 

You can set up a list of contacts , email and cell, to get out going messages no incoming.

only Cost $149 a year for service.

All in all i like the Spot, and plan on taking it to the boat when i go sailing as planned.


----------



## Scallywag2 (Feb 9, 2010)

SPOT has a few levels of service. I have the Basic. Push the on button, then the OK button. When the OK button stops blinking turn off SPOT. It can take a minimum of 20 minutes for SPOT to send the OK message. Depending on the computer server, it can take a while for your OK Message to be received by loved ones. Being forgetful to turn on SPOT, heavy cloud cover, or no satellite coverage for the area will cause loved ones to worry. Following IM2F, there were times there was not an OK message. I wondered why? To extend battery life I turn SPOT off after the OK message is sent. I usually send twice a day, once in the morning and once at night. I use SPOT on land and ocean trips.
The children enjoy seeing where we are located. We also get questions regarding, why we did not send.


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Been using an older spot for years, love it!

Good luck,

Gary


----------



## Pamlicotraveler (Aug 13, 2006)

Using the original SPOT with the mapping function that costs extra - SPOT is durable and reliable and we have tracked our progress over 20,000 miles over the last 3 years. For ours, we have to turn it on and restart every 24 hours. It sends a message every 10 minutes...sure it misses a few, but not many. Worked great in the US, med, Caribbean and all points in between. It's a no brainer.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Had a buddy take the DeLorme on a delivery from RI to the Caribbean a couple of seasons back. He thought it was great. Two way text capability offshore. I think you can get some kind of weather info now too, but not a grib file.


----------



## svzephyr44 (Jun 26, 2000)

I have friends who own and use both solutions. One just bought a DeLorme to replace his Spot. Wanted the 2 way message ability. He likes it a lot and would recommend it over the Spot.

Big downside is you need an internet connection to be on the receiving end. Thus when we are sailing in loose company and I have no internet there is not way either system will let me track where he is.


----------



## sailak (Apr 15, 2007)

I bought the Delorme tracker last Aug when I crewed on a passage across the Gulf of Alaska. I was going to get a Spot but at the store found the Spot system isn't reliably covered in Alaska. The two-way texting on the Delorme was handy. I also liked that I could "pay by the month" since sailing season here is April to September&#8230;.no sense paying for winter months if not using it.

Here is the track and comm reports for that crossing. I had it set to plot a position every 4 hours. In addition I would send an "All OK" occasionally. You can click on the position dots or the msg squares to see course, time, speed, etc.


----------



## travellerw (Mar 9, 2006)

I own an Delorme InReach... One of the best devices I have ever bought.. Two way messaging anywhere for $80/month. 

On my last trip, I accidentally left it turned on coming home. I have one point on my track somewhere over the USA at 38,000 ft! LOL

I suggest you look on Craigslist or Kijiji for a used device. People buy them for a single trip and then sell them for 1/2 or less. I picked mine up for 1/3 and it was 1 month old.


----------



## bvander66 (Sep 30, 2007)

We use a basic spot for the past 5 years to keep family infod on loc and that we are ok. Tied the 411 button to tow boat US, used that once. Great piece of kit, not expensive, and suits us fine for US and Bahamas cruising where internet is realitively accessable. Planing to head further afield in a year and will likely move to an inreach with its 2 way text capability then.


----------



## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

Thank you all, good information.


----------



## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

We used a Spot II tracker on our last cruise and it was really nice for keeping the family calmed down and not worrying about us. I would hit the locate button every evening to show them where we were anchored at or in transit at.

I've still got mine and will definitely activate it again for our next cruise starting in a couple of months.

I'm not even going to upgrade from the Spot II.


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Any one-way gizmo (even phone text messages) have to be used with knowledge that a lack of message, a lack of acknowledgement, DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING. This is why radio operators will acknowledge they have heard something, i.e. by saying "Roger."

So by all means use the SPOT or anything else, just let the wife know that "no messages" can mean you dropped it overboard, the battery is low and you're busy, all kinds of things that are not grounds for worry. Pick a time, like two hours or eight hours, and tell her not to worry until she hasn't heard from you for at least that long.

Get the gizmo a month or two in advance, and see what kind of coverage and lapses you may have, well in advance. And get her used to seeing it drop out from time to time.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Good point, hellosailor. If I'm going through the trouble of keeping someone on the home front informed of my safety, I would like to know they received the message. I don't want to worry that they are worried.


----------



## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Nice thread and another example of the usefulness of Sailnet. Just ordered the DeLorme inReach SE unit for this winter's cruising. The two-way texting feature was the clincher as well as some bad reviews of the Spot unit on other websites. I also like the fact that it uses the Iridium system and has a water resistance rating which seems to be absent on the Spot. If anyone has any additional feedback on pluses and minuses or additional things to know about this particular device, would be nice to hear it.


----------



## travellerw (Mar 9, 2006)

smurphny said:


> Nice thread and another example of the usefulness of Sailnet. Just ordered the DeLorme inReach SE unit for this winter's cruising. The two-way texting feature was the clincher as well as some bad reviews of the Spot unit on other websites. I also like the fact that it uses the Iridium system and has a water resistance rating which seems to be absent on the Spot. If anyone has any additional feedback on pluses and minuses or additional things to know about this particular device, would be nice to hear it.


I paired mine with a solar USB charger. The charger sits on top of the bimini and the Inreach is clipped underneath. A USB cable runs around the bimini and is plugged into the Inreach. This way, I never worry about charging it, it just stays charged and the solar charger has an extra USB port for another device.

I found this easier than trying to wire a USB charger to the boat electrical. It also keeps the Inreach with a clear view of the sky!


----------



## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

We used our Delorme, for short messages, all the way across the Pacific...Panama to New Zeland. 

However, the weather gribs from the Sat phone were far more valuable and the crew of a sinking boat, 1,000nm off-shore, owe their rescue to a SSB! They were 300 nm miles from us and a boat that was initially 200nm from the sinking boat rescued the crew staying in SSB contact for the 2 days it took to get to the sinking boat.

Phil & Nell who are looking for crew back to the Caribbean from New Zealand via South Africa!


----------



## travellerw (Mar 9, 2006)

Yorksailor said:


> We used our Delorme, for short messages, all the way across the Pacific...Panama to New Zeland.
> 
> However, the weather gribs from the Sat phone were far more valuable and the crew of a sinking boat, 1,000nm off-shore, owe their rescue to a SSB! They were 300 nm miles from us and a boat that was initially 200nm from the sinking boat rescued the crew staying in SSB contact for the 2 days it took to get to the sinking boat.
> 
> Phil & Nell who are looking for crew back to the Caribbean from New Zealand via South Africa!


I would love to hear the details of this. A boat sinking for 2 days and they were unable to stop the flow of water. Scary.

Is there anywhere I can read the story?


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I finally bought an In Reach this past summer for our 26hr overnight across the Gulf of Maine. It both allowed text contact with our float plan shore based friends, but also allowed family to follow our progress on a website that we set a password for, so only they could see. 

I thought it was a great tool. I bought an unlimited text plan for $75 and used it to pass the time texting about a half dozen buddies. Seemless integration with my iPhone. Highly recommend. 

If and when it allows grib downloads, it will be perfect. Although, I've read that may never happen.


----------



## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> I finally bought an In Reach this past summer for our 26hr overnight across the Gulf of Maine. It both allowed text contact with our float plan shore based friends, but also allowed family to follow our progress on a website that we set a password for, so only they could see.
> 
> I thought it was a great tool. I bought an unlimited text plan for $75 and used it to pass the time texting about a half dozen buddies. Seemless integration with my iPhone. Highly recommend.
> 
> If and when it allows grib downloads, it will be perfect. Although, I've read that may never happen.


Will be using it in the Bahamas in addition to SSB/Winlink which should provide enough in the way of communication so as to avoid needing to use Batelco which seems way overpriced for calling back to the US. The cost of DeLorme's unlimited text for just a few months seems like a good value.


----------



## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I suppose it would be kinda fun for those who wanted to follow our voyaging, but I'd feel like a chipped pet. Part of our sense of freedom comes from no one knowing exactly where we are at any given moment. Thank God my mother in law doesn't know these things exist.


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

capta, actually no one knows where a "chipped pet" is, unless someone has taken a scanner and actively queried the pet in order to find out. For most that happens about once a year, when and if they remember to ask the vet to check if the chip is still working.

Remember the trackers only display what you want, when you want. You could just as easily tell your mil to watch your tracker--and then feed her bogus position data that showed you sightseeing in Novosibirsk all night long, every night.

Or Vegas, if that would make her happier.(G)


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

You can disable the web tracking at will, from the device, and still use the DeLorme to text or as a SAR device. You can also attend to the passwords on the website, to limit access. For example, I got in the habit of establishing different passwords for different passages (which included the date in the password), so that my family and friends would not expect them to work perpetually. After I arrived and confirmed a good set via text, I disabled the tracking on the device and, when I got internet access, I disabled the password.

I don't think its SAR capabilities are as good as an EPIRB, but it still has an SOS feature. It will also serve as a GPS and give you lat/long to confirm your position on a chart.


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"I don't think its SAR capabilities are as good as an EPIRB, "
I did read an anecdotal and unverified comment somewhere that SPOT and all the personal trackers are 200mW output power, versus about 5W on the real EPIRBs. If the new generation satellite receivers are 25x more sensitive and there's no background noise...that wouldn't be terribly important. If.

But the typical EPRIB has no way to confirm it is functional. The TEST button has actually been known to lie (ACR product recall over that) and there are still few EPIRBs that actually send a text message that you can receive to confirm they are working.

So, horses for courses.

A life raft and a life vest both have uses, just not necessarily the same.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

InReach transmit to a different set of satellites (iridium network?), which claim to be 100% global coverage, but I could not identify the wattage. Not that I think it matters much, but I read that the epirb sats are less than 100% (I suspect in places I'll never be). 

I think you're right, there are pros and cons to the two SAR capabilities. EPIRBs are communicating with an international SARSAT network, while it seems InReach has their own. When an EPIRB goes off, they initiate an effort to determine whether it's a false alarm first, as your registration provides multiple shore contacts. It will be hours before they even decide whether to come look for you, but they are wired into international SAR capabilities. 

With InReach, you can reply and confirm your problem and they can contact the appropriate SAR more quickly. You could, theoretically, contact someone like the USCG directly, if you had a cell number to text to. 

I'm a sort of belt and suspenders guy anyway, so I'm glad to have both now. Although, I discontinued the monthly text plan, as it won't be used for a while now.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> I don't think its SAR capabilities are as good as an EPIRB, but it still has an SOS feature.


You don't have to think about it. Neither the SPOT nor the InReach are SAR devices. Not part of GMDSS and not a life safety device. Get past the marketing and ask the companies that make them.

Carry an EPIRB.


----------



## travellerw (Mar 9, 2006)

SVAuspicious said:


> You don't have to think about it. Neither the SPOT nor the InReach are SAR devices. Not part of GMDSS and not a life safety device. Get past the marketing and ask the companies that make them.
> 
> Carry an EPIRB.


Call me over doing it.. but.. I carry 2 EPIRBS, 1 PLB and a Delorme InReach..

Every time I hear a story about a sailor lost with no EPIRB, I just shake my head. At $300 for 10 years ($2.5/month) WHY WOULD ANYONE NOT HAVE ONE!


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> ....I'm a sort of belt and suspenders guy anyway, so I'm glad to have both now....





SVAuspicious said:


> You don't have to think about it. Neither the SPOT nor the InReach are SAR devices. Not part of GMDSS and not a life safety device. Get past the marketing and ask the companies that make them.
> 
> Carry an EPIRB.


I did one better than that. Both.

At least, with the DeLorme, you can more quickly get a message to the USCG, while they are researching false alarm filters from your EPRIB signal.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

travellerw said:


> ..Every time I hear a story about a sailor lost with no EPIRB, I just shake my head. At $300 for 10 years ($2.5/month) WHY WOULD ANYONE NOT HAVE ONE!


I agree with your point, but how do you get 10 years?


----------



## travellerw (Mar 9, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> I agree with your point, but how do you get 10 years?


Here is the EPIRB I bought. 10 year battery life, user replaceable battery, 72 hour transmit, GPS assisted.... for $232 USD.. YES REALLY.
EPIRB KTI SA1G-INTERNATIONAL GPS 406 MHz MMSI BEACON - SkippersMate

I almost crapped myself when someone suggested it to me. That EPIRB would cost $600-$700 in the USA.

Now to be totally transparent, some USA users have complained about issues registering it. I had absolutely no problem registering it in Canada, our registry knew the company.

P.S. I believe they also have automatic activation ones!


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"NO LONGER AVAILABLE FOR U.S.A. VESSELS AND BUYERS DUE TO NEW PROGRAMMING CHANGES."

Apparently the seller is no longer interested in the problems that US customers will have with these units. And while the warranty is ten years, it would need a radical new battery chemistry (or a huge pack size) to turn the normal "five years till the battery is half dead, and then it is time to replace it because at ten years there will be zero minutes of power left" into something more. Which they apparently claim to have, but somehow, this hasn't made the news anywhere else.

Just saying.


----------



## travellerw (Mar 9, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> "NO LONGER AVAILABLE FOR U.S.A. VESSELS AND BUYERS DUE TO NEW PROGRAMMING CHANGES."
> 
> Apparently the seller is no longer interested in the problems that US customers will have with these units. And while the warranty is ten years, it would need a radical new battery chemistry (or a huge pack size) to turn the normal "five years till the battery is half dead, and then it is time to replace it because at ten years there will be zero minutes of power left" into something more. Which they apparently claim to have, but somehow, this hasn't made the news anywhere else.
> 
> Just saying.


It made plenty of news and was featured in many articles in magazines. You are simply wrong that a "radical new battery chemistry" was invented. It has to do with the fact that the electronics matured and have much less standby draw. As well as Lithium batteries maturing and becoming more stable.

In fact, the competition is now playing catch-up and some have already caught up. 
EPIRB1 - Ocean Signal
GME Digital EPIRB - 406Mhz, GPS - BCF

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/596044046889406464WhiffleTech EPIRB

You can keep buying your $600 5 year EPIRB, I'll move to the newer ones, that are certified everywhere else in the world.. Just Saying!


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Obviously I missed the memo (G) but the "standby draw" of an EPIRB should actually be ZERO. If it is not on, it is NOT ON and draws zero power. The previous state-of-the-art in lithium primary batteries was that they had essentially a ten year shelf life, i.e. they lost 10% of their potential every year, so that after five years they were 50% dead, even sitting on the shelf in the original wrapper with nothing connected. And the logic that the entire industry used was "Well, if we need 48 hours of transmitter power, we'll build them with 72 hours of power, and tell folks to replace the battery at five years."

Strictly a matter of math and technology.

The "standby" power drain should still be zero, the transmission power drain will still be something like ten watts (rashly assuming 50% efficiency in the transmitter, which is typical, and a 5W rated output power), so that means either there has been a change in battery chemistry, or the battery pack size has been doubled.

Now, I have also seen two leading battery companies advertising their latest ALKALINE batteries as now having 12 and 20 year shelf lives. A nice claim, well in excess of what I've seen from SAFT and other lithium primary makers. But I've also routinely seen alkalines from those two vendors (actually from all three big names) leak well before their "use by" dates.

Until and unless I *knew* that there was a new technology or new logic that could actually assure a ten year fifty-percent battery self life?

I've got an EPIRB here that was widely acclaimed for having "user replaceable" batteries. Except, it turns out the maker potted the entire battery coimpartment in epoxy, so the user can't change the batteries. And since one of the two makers went out of business and the other one dropped the product, the user can't replace the entire potted compartment either.

Great claim, total fail on the product.

I'd really like to know *why* anyone is claiming 10 year service life on their batteries now. Allsat is showing they are using LiMnO2 batteries, and the ones I've got from SAFT still publish a FIVE year shelf life. (Five years till 50% power lost.)


----------



## travellerw (Mar 9, 2006)

I won't claim to be a expert on EPIRB technology, but I do have an EE background and can make some educated guesses. Since many of the new EPIRBs don't have a warm up time on the GPS receivers, I speculate that they are probably feeding power to some circuits. I don't design satellite circuits so I'm only going on the information I have heard. Wikipedia seems to agree with what I heard. (some circuitry must be powered for time, GPS local, ect). Of course I could be completely wrong and there is another method they use. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_to_first_fix

The other thing the manufacturer needs to factor in is the number of "self tests" the user will perform. All EPIRBs I have seen come with a recommendation on how often to test. They are rated for that number of tests, over the lifetime of the battery. I also speculate that the EPRIB will do its own tests at some interval (again using some power)

Second, there are quite a few new, and not so new lithium based technologies out. Here is a website describing many of the technologies and their advantages.
Lithium Batteries Specifications
Of course Wikipedia has more chemistry type information
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery

If you notice in the first link Lithium Anode Reserve Batteries (available in three flavours) have "undiminished power output even after storage periods over fourteen years". Although if I was a betting man, I would guess these new EPIRBs are using Lithium/carbon monofluoride. I believe Li-(CF) batteries are cheaper and more widely available. At a self discharge rate of 1%/[email protected] they would be more than adequate for task (only %10 diminished at 10 years).

Finally, as to the user serviceability of the battery in the ERPIB I posted. Yup, I can't confirm its serviceability without tearing it apart. However I can actually see how to take it apart and if the battery happens to be potted, then the entire bottom of the unit could be replaced (as its the battery).


----------



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

SVAuspicious said:


> You don't have to think about it. Neither the SPOT nor the InReach are SAR devices. Not part of GMDSS and not a life safety device. Get past the marketing and ask the companies that make them.
> 
> Carry an EPIRB.


SVA,

I believe 406Mhz devices are superior, but I worry about delayed rescue due to false alarms.

How is the SAR community dealing with this? How soon do they send the cavalry after receiving a signal?

I know the old 121.5mhz alarms would always be responded to by our local USCG station sending out a "pan pan" request for information between yawns. Not very reassuring.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


----------



## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

The GPSes are essentially unchanged over the last decade, still on "generation 4" AFAIK and they sip so little power in order to keep their internal backups alive, that they've even been used in watches for that purpose. The clock runs on something like microAmps, not even milliAmps, and rubbing a balloon on a carpet would keep it happy. The EPRIB has a fast "first fix" time now, simple because the GPSes now pretty much all do. That's gone from several minutes in the first generations to typically 10-15 seconds in the new ones, although the GPS actually needs 17 minutes to pick up periodic system data before it goes to full accuracy. Anything under 17 minutes is just a random case of "When was that last burst?" in the 17-minute window.

Not to mention, the same [sic] EPRIBs with no GPS at all, so there's no question of GPS drain, still had the same "five" year battery life. And the battery type is still the same chemistry, so claims of a new chemistry or type, don't add up. With *no* parasitic drain and no GPS at all, the batteries still broke down to 50% in 5 years. Same batteries now, they say.

There's something still very wrong with that picture. Like Volkswagen's clean diesel engines.

Med, 
Last I heard something like 99% of all SAR activations were false alarms. Nevertheless, the cold hungry underpaid thankless bastards [sic] who respond to them, still seem too prefer that we have and use them, and leave it to them to sort out the details. They figure the paper has to be pushed, any system improvements have to come from politicians, and it is easier to push paper than talk to politicians.
SAR is like the old Domino's Pizza promise: We're there in 30 minutes or less, or your money back. Right? Well...not quite.
It has still come a long way since Steve Callahan's long vacation in a raft.


----------

