# Flying vs. Sailing



## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Are the two really that similar? I mean, with the obvious difference that if I fall out of my boat I have a fighting chance of survival.

But I see several posts where the introduction starts out "I used to fly, gas is too expensive, now I want to sail." I get the similarity between how the wind powers a sail and a wing, etc. but beyond that, do those who fly really find the same satisfaction from sailing? Or, are you just settling until gas prices stabilize? 

Just curious.


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## sailak (Apr 15, 2007)

For the most part, yes I get as much out of sailing as I did flying.

I had always said that once I got to old and slow to fly I would buy a sailboat....the Feds made the decision for me.

I used the airplane to go places I couldn't get by other means.... now I do that with the boat.

A smoking 8 knot reach has about the same "hair on fire" rating as rolling the airplane upside down so things work out fairly well.


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## jerryrlitton (Oct 14, 2002)

What Dale said except I still fly. sail when I can and find them very similar. 

Jerry


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## rwy36 (Mar 19, 2004)

*Air vs. sea similarities*

Although I'm currently in the "used-to-fly" category, I have both flown and sailed on and off for several years (fortunately, I'm still sailing). Here's a couple of the comparisons I've noted along the way (although not all are specific to just sailing, but also boating in general):

1) Groundspeed vs. SOG: effects of wind on planes vs. effects of wind and currents on boats are in difference magnitudes and use the same calculations
2) Landing airplanes vs. docking boats: lots of similarities, especially the "crosswind" landing/docking scenarios
3) Air turbulence vs. water turbulence: either will provide a bumpy ride for the respective voyagers
4) Air vs. sea navigation: the time/distance scales are different, but the calculations are the same (with GPS being the Great Equalizer most recently).

Although I was never rated in gliders, it would seem that case might offer a more direct comparisons to sailing in some ways.

Take care,

Bill


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

*Thank You!*

Thanks for your replies. From this forum and others, I sometimes get the impression that pilots who are no longer able (for whatever reason) to fly will "settle" for sailing as if sailing is equivalent to power walking when one can no longer do the 800M hurdles or something.

I'm glad I'm wrong.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I used to fly hang gliders pretty seriously and found high performance dinghy sailing/wind surfing to have some crossover. I flew pretty intensively in my 30s went cruising for 7 years in my 40s, flew sporadically to my mid 50s and now liveaboard in retirement in my 60s. 

I would love to have a foiler Moth to tinker with but suspect that a beach cat might be more practical. However perhaps a kite surfer..........??? 

Oh yes had I ever fallen out of my hang glider I would have found out if my chute worked.


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## MikeWhy (Apr 22, 2011)

They're not at all the same. The views enroute are considerably different. Single engine land is appropriate for exploring the continent's interior, but crossing large bodies of water is the province of blue water cruisers. They are somewhat similar in that you can reach, and spend time in out of the way places, places you might not otherwise see or experience. Mostly, I think think they're comparable only in the price of the toys.


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## sailak (Apr 15, 2007)

rwy36 said:


> 4) Air vs. sea navigation: the time/distance scales are different, but the calculations are the same (with GPS being the Great Equalizer most recently).


Nice thing is at 6 knots you don't get quite as lost as you do at 180 knots


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## jimrafford (Jan 7, 2011)

Bill is right on w/ the glider comparison. I have a lot of hours in both a glider and a hang glider and you go thru the same thought processes as sailing. Except for the standing on a platform on the edge of a cliff w/ a big wing on you back and running off it thing.
Jim


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

MikeWhy said:


> They're not at all the same. The views enroute are considerably different. Single engine land is appropriate for exploring the continent's interior, but crossing large bodies of water is the province of blue water cruisers. They are somewhat similar in that you can reach, and spend time in out of the way places, places you might not otherwise see or experience. Mostly, I think think they're comparable only in the price of the toys.


I realize that one can sail where one may not be able to fly and vice versa, what I was thinking about when I asked the question was more along the lines of whether pilots have a perception of sailing as being less of a challenge than flying.


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## acunningham (Nov 25, 2010)

DRFerron said:


> I realize that one can sail where one may not be able to fly and vice versa, what I was thinking about when I asked the question was more along the lines of whether pilots have a perception of sailing as being less of a challenge than flying.


I have about 300 hours in light aircraft and gliders (started in 2004), and about 80 hours sailing (started last October). Both are extremely rewarding, and given the choice of which to do on a Saturday afternoon I'd have to think before answering.

I'd definitely say that sailing is much easier to learn, especially academically. Flying is a surprisingly academic pursuit, and a good rule of thumb while studying for a private pilot's license is four hours of study for ever hour of flying. Since the typical person takes around 60 hours to gain a PPL, that means around 240 hours study. There are also a significant number of people who drop out of learning to fly because they find it too hard.

I don't know what the equivalent study to sailing ratio is, but I'd bet it's much lower than for flying. Perhaps 1:1? I've also never heard of anyone dropping out of sailing because they find it too hard to learn.


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## MikeWhy (Apr 22, 2011)

DRFerron said:


> I realize that one can sail where one may not be able to fly and vice versa, what I was thinking about when I asked the question was more along the lines of whether pilots have a perception of sailing as being less of a challenge than flying.


I don't know that it's a question of challenge. I find very little overlap, outside the hang glider and dinghy comparison that others made.

The time scales are completely different. Biscayne Bay is a satisfying 4 or 5 day experience by boat, but you're done circling it twice and ready for something else at the end of two hours in a light plane.

The practicalities and logistical considerations are different. What will you want to do? How will you get around, where will you live, once you get there? I haven't decided yet whether I'll fly, drive, sail, motorcycle, or rent an RV for an upcoming holiday.

The answers will be completely different for live-aboards, weekend daysailers, and dinghy racers. For me personally, they're both just holiday and weekend pastimes, equally enjoyable but in different ways. Which is why I answered earlier as I did. I once thought I would do more of both. I wanted to see Alaska by air, and I dreamt passionately of crossing oceans. Tonight, I'll be no less happy to just grab a NetFlix move, snuggle, and pop some corn kernels. (IOW: I don't think it means anything. There are likely as many airline pilots who sail as there are dentists who ride Harleys, or sail. The common theme might be simply disposable income.)


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

A day sail maybe less challenging then flying. Open ocean long distance sailing, far more challenging then flying.


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## sailguy40 (Feb 6, 2010)

I used to be a student pilot several years ago long before I got into sailing. I don't know if I can say its similar but I can say many people who like flying will also like sailing. Maybe its something about the satisfaction of the two hobbies. I been thinking about getting back into flying as well but I will say that its a more expensive hobby. Seems like sailing mostly is buying your sailboat then the rest of the cost is just maintenance and slip fees. It just costs pocket change to be out all day (and night too) with my sailboat. A Cessna 182, hundreds of dollars of fuel down the drain but boy will you get around FAST! This said, most good used Cessna 182 aircraft are well over $100k and thats about 5 years old. The 2011 model 182's are over $400k  Many beginning pilots tend to rent aircraft since they are so expensive. The 152's are much more affordable for beginning pilots, can grab one of those used for under $50k.


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## sailak (Apr 15, 2007)

acunningham said:


> I'd definitely say that sailing is much easier to learn, especially academically.


I certainly agree that it will take a bit more time to learn enough to solo an airplane, but once you get the basics down it's pitch + power = performance.

With a sailboat anyone can make the boat move, getting the maximum performance from the boat takes lots of knowledge/experience.


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## jerryrlitton (Oct 14, 2002)

I am teaching now, which I have done for almost 30 years (Airplanes and helicopters) and what I keep showing people is that flying is within their grasp. Most all can do it. But like driving a car or learning any other skill, the basics can be leaned in a few hours but the finer points take much longer. I just have the basic as far as sailing, I have a very long way to go....

Jerry


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

I come from flying both power and gliders, I raced gliders internationally in the 15m class until recently and find that there is a lot of similarity between the two sports that stems, in my opinion, from having to acknowledge that mother nature and her whims, forces and unforgiving nature is the controlling force and one must understand and work with the wind, waves, and landscape in order to succeed. One cannot just get a bigger and more powerful craft in order to power on through.


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## sailguy40 (Feb 6, 2010)

sailak said:


> I certainly agree that it will take a bit more time to learn enough to solo an airplane, but once you get the basics down it's pitch + power = performance.
> 
> With a sailboat anyone can make the boat move, getting the maximum performance from the boat takes lots of knowledge/experience.


This is what I have found out pretty quick about sailing, not to mention all the other little things like fix/repair and maintenance


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## Kiltmadoc (Nov 10, 2009)

I only had a wee bit over 100 hours before i abandoned flying for sailing. I really liked the intellectual aspect and the 3D aspect of flying. But, like other posters have stated, sailing provides similar challenges. I would also make the comparison that dinghy sailing is to 20+ foot sailing as single engine GA aircraft is to multiengine/jet craft (the latter comes from speaking with a A380 pilot who stated that commercial aircraft are way easier to fly than little ones). 

This past weekend, I used one of our club dinghys with my 4 year old, it was really fun and provided a lot more " feedback" as compared with our 32 foot boat. 

Also, the knowledge that one can make the boat go wherever they like once one masters the controls and understanding of the wind, is a very similar to the satisfaction flying gives you when you finally put all the bits about controls/wind/engine/radios together for a "perfect" flight.


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## jetdrvr393 (Sep 3, 2009)

Yes the two are very similar. A wing and a sail in concept are the same thing. Navigation is the same and weather is weather. Anyone who can sail will have an easy time learning to fly and sailing came very easy to me after 23 years flying airplanes.
Now that flying has become a job to me sailing provides the same excitement flying did when I took my first flight at age 13.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

Funny question for us.

My wife used to be a recreational pilot. She did not "love" flying for the sake of flying. She just saw it as fast transportation.

However, she loves sailing and while she loves sailing fast it is no longer about getting there fast. She enjoys the journey as much as the destination.


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## nickmerc (Nov 2, 2008)

I do both. I started sailing because flying was getting too expensive. Beyond what is already mentioned here about the similarities I have noticed that the same kind of people who fly, sail and vise-versa. For me I really enjoy, almost need, to keep my mind constantly busy. I do very well multi-tasking. When sailing I am a perpetual sail trimmer. I cannot let it go for more than a few minutes. I am always trying to keep the boat balanced, on coarse, and sailing as fast as possible.

While flying, especially without autopilot, you not only have to trim the sails(control surfaces) constantly, but you need to watch for traffic, scan for an emergency landing place you can reach, listen to tons of radio chatter, and constantly know where you are.

Disposable income is not a requirement for doing either. We all know people who sacrifice everything to do sail. The same goes for pilots. The extra money does make both pursuits much easier, but it is not a pre-requisite. When I was in college working 30-40 hours per week and in school full time I could not afford to fly, but I found a way to do it. I delivered planes for brokers. I could not charge them since I was not commercially rated, but I found a way.

Anyone can sail or fly. However, to do either well takes experience to hone the skills needed. Not everyone can sail or fly well.


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## FlyNavy (May 14, 2009)

As much as I wanted not to join this discussion, I can’t seem to help myself. The Signature says it all…”FlyNavy”.
I’ve sailed for as long as I can remember and first flew at the controls right out of college. Boats give us a sense of both mastery and freedom that isn’t shared by (or even available to) everyone else. This isn’t elitism, just fact. 
The experience is both unique and repeatable. Aircraft give us the same. Maybe it’s dopamine, maybe it’s adrenaline but it’s always rewarding. I’ve sailed the Great Lakes, the Florida Keys, the Pacific North West and now in a small Texas lake. I’ve motored through the Mediterranean, the Indian Ocean, the Atlantic and Pacific on aircraft carriers enjoyed almost every moment out on the water. I’ve also flown attack jets and large transports over those oceans and landed on six of the seven continents.
For me, it isn’t about planes vs. sailboats, it’s about man and machine teaming up to venture beyond the normal elements through which we pass and arriving safely at the other end of the journey more fulfilled and happier for the experience.


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## ccher (Jun 24, 2011)

I owned a 172 for the primary purpose of commuting from Philly to my sailboat in VA on the weekends. While I enjoyed flying I didnt do it just to punch holes in the sky and sold the plane shortly after moving to my house in VA where the boat is docked. Like a lot of things flying takes time (and money) to stay current and proficient, otherwise it becomes a dangerous activity. I wanted to spend my time on the water. To answer your question DR, I found flying challenging-you're in three dimension after all, weather planning is important to both but in a light plane you're dead if caught in a serious convective storm, in a reasonably seaworthy boat you have signifcantly better prospects. Fuel management, weight & balance, etc. is critical, sailing not so much-it probably won't kill you. 
Sailing has its own challenges but i've been doing it for 40 years and that's my passion. I've known many pilots that feel just as passionately about flying while for me it was a great tool to avoid I-95! Good question.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

FlyNavy said:


> ..., it's about man and machine teaming up to venture beyond the normal elements through which we pass and arriving safely at the other end of the journey more fulfilled and happier for the experience.


Amen. Both are man v nature. Still fly and sail.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

I have about 1200 hours TT including 300 dual given as a CFI. Many of the knowledge area's between sailing and flying are very similar and some are identical. If you can calculate a wind correction angle, you'll be able to quickly understand set and drift. If If you can do a flight plan you'll, understand the difference between heading and track and "water speed" vs. SOG. If you understand weight and balance in an aircraft, the concepts of center of effort/center of lateral resistance will be easily grasped. The concepts of navigation learned in flying are directly applicable. Ded reckoning will not be a foreign concept, though a bit different than the way the term is used in aviation since pilots attempt to correct for drift from the outset during ded reckoning navigation. Pilotage is identical in both activities. The aerodynamic concepts of aviation are also directly appliclable to to the myriad of foils on a sailboat sails, keel and rudder. These are just a few of the similarities that come to mind. 

As far as the different time scales, those aren't so different really either. Flying a 600 mile trip, I might see in a matter of hours the changes in weather that would cover the next 3 days as sailor. I still need to be able to extract the same information from a forecast.


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## Undadar (Mar 24, 2011)

Fun question. I've been flying for 25 years, am a flight instructor, and have built/flown two composite aircraft. No glider experience so cannot speak to that aspect. I am relatively new to sailing and sailboat ownership.

Both "hobbies" deserve (require) a healthy dose of care and attention. For small, general aviation flying, the skills required are certainly not super-human. I've only met one person over the years that simply could not learn to handle a small aircraft. I really like the comparison of docking and landing. It is interesting to read what others have said as I too have found quite a few parallels (weather, navigation, regulations, etc&#8230.

I have found that the maintenance of my boat provides satisfaction similar to building and maintaining aircraft. It is doubly good that this enjoyment is now combined with my (hopefully soon to be) "living quarters." No, I'm not yet a liveaboard but I am working on it. I've never really enjoyed home maintenance so this is a positive change for me. That leads to what may be a subtle difference. To some folks, sailing and flying are hobbies. To others, sailing is a lifestyle like RV'ing. I've never actually met anyone who's "lifestyle" was flying (lived in a plane) though I have heard a few stories. I would certainly love to do it but the fuel burn on such a plane would be huge.

Flying can get you real dead, real fast. Sailing seems to be equally capable at getting you real dead but appears that it can take longer (in most cases) and gives you a greater opportunity to really experience the event. I am not saying that either of them need to be dangerous or unsafe.

The biggest issue that I have faced is acclimating myself to the time tables. When flying and ten miles from your destination, you need to have everything in order and be ready for landing. When sailing, ten miles can represent many hours but I still have it in my mind that I need to get prepared - then I wait and wait and wait&#8230; 

The sweetest deal though is being able to go somewhere and not require any money (fuel) to do it.

JdFinley.com | Sailing, development, and life with JD
Finleyweb.Net > Home


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

Lol, I am obviously not inside the same circles some of you are. None of my friends have made the switch from flying personnel planes to sailing personnel boats. Lol, what a funny conversation that would be to me-- College kid eating beans and rice 4 days a week. Lol, the gas for my plane is to much, lol.. Cant get over that. All I can say is- must be nice


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## Cptken (Apr 23, 2008)

I think they are both about freedom to go and do what you want (both have similiar limitations) and interaction with a machine, making it perform or do the things you want it to. One nice difference with sailing is you can have a beer with lunch and then sail all afternoon instead of waiting 8 hours.


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## nickmerc (Nov 2, 2008)

Harborless said:


> Lol, I am obviously not inside the same circles some of you are. None of my friends have made the switch from flying personnel planes to sailing personnel boats. Lol, what a funny conversation that would be to me-- College kid eating beans and rice 4 days a week. Lol, the gas for my plane is to much, lol.. Cant get over that. All I can say is- must be nice


When I started flying I was eating rice and beans... on a good day. I was able to find ways to fly without spending my own money. Where there is a will there is a way. You don't have to be wealthy, though it does make life easier, to fly or sail. Just motivated and creative.

Of course, once you pay your dues and put the time into your career you will be able to afford to do more with your money. However, you sacrifice your freedom and have much more responsibility. Enjoy the rice and beans while you can.


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## Undadar (Mar 24, 2011)

Harborless said:


> Lol, I am obviously not inside the same circles some of you are. .... All I can say is- must be nice


Hmm, not sure what "same circles" means but am afraid it may be a "golden spoon" type of comment. I've spent thirty years working like a fool as a small business owner. I had my "bean" days - even had to drop out of college as I was so broke. Hard work, persistence, good decisions, and recognizing need from want can still get you a long ways.

Perception is funny - I know people that drive $40k cars and go to DisneyWorld every year that think I'm rich cause I fly a $10k airplane (and drive a $6k used car). My payment is less than what some of my friends spend on cigarettes and/or alcohol every month. Ya gotta decide what your priorities are and stick to them.

JdFinley.com | Sailing, development, and life with JD


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

Undadar said:


> Hmm, not sure what "same circles" means but am afraid it may be a "golden spoon" type of comment. I've spent thirty years working like a fool as a small business owner. I had my "bean" days - even had to drop out of college as I was so broke. Hard work, persistence, good decisions, and recognizing need from want can still get you a long ways.
> 
> Perception is funny - I know people that drive $40k cars and go to DisneyWorld every year that think I'm rich cause I fly a $10k airplane (and drive a $6k used car). My payment is less than what some of my friends spend on cigarettes and/or alcohol every month. Ya gotta decide what your priorities are and stick to them.
> 
> JdFinley.com | Sailing, development, and life with JD


Agree with you. I have never owned a new car and all my cars now are at least 20 years old (I have 4 so that I can maintain at least a 75% availability- do all the repairs myself). Thought about buying either a new car or a used sail boat- went for the used sail boat. All my freinds think I am rich, but they are the ones driving $35K cars which cost more than my boat. In college I helped deliver yachts at no cost just to sail and gain experience. If there is a will there is a way.


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