# Sailing Canoe



## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I am looking for inspiration. 

I just bought myself a canoe hull, plan is to make a sailing canoe.

I paid a few hundred dollars and got myself a 1973 Grumman 17 canoe. 

My goal is to make her in to a camp cruiser. I am thinking one -2 weeks at a time with me, my wife, my two kids and my Basset Hound. 

Want to keep paddling to a minimum. So. How do I make this boat go? All ideas welcome.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Maybe look at adding an outrigger.
Those canoes last forever
Theyre also considered 'loud'....tinny


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Why? 

I went canoeing during graduation senior week in college. Had to leave on a bus at 6am to get to some god forsaken river, to paddle through some light rapids all day, just to come home. I did not want to go and had barely gotten to sleep at 1am the night before, from other graduation festivities. My girlfriend at the time insisted.

I think we made it about 30 minutes down the river, capsized and lost all the beer we brought with us. I never went back. I ended up marrying that girlfriend. The marriage capsized too. 

Nothing good comes with a canoe.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I can answer why; car topping. My patience for trailering is getting a bit thin, but we really like taking our winter vacation in south Florida and our summer vacation in Nova Scotia. Throw the boat on the roof, camping gear in the back of the van, good to go. "CRUISERS" 

Any way, aside from scouring the interweb for used sail rigs (Grumman Canoes actually sold a factory sail rig with rudder and sunfish style rig for this model), I am focused on a couple of off the shelf sail rigs.

One is the Balogh Sail Designs batwing sail rig. Crazy expensive, but I have seen them perform and they certainly get the job done. BSD Rigs for Canoes - Product list. they are pricey, but ever since I sold my keel boat, I figure I am saving about $5k a year on moorage, so...

The other option I am looking at is a sail rig out of Britain by Solway Dory. I like this option for its simplicity and they seem seem to be big canoe sailors in the UK, it's where the whole thing started back in the mid 19th century. Here is the "Expedition Bermuda Rig". The Expedition Bermudan Rig

Shipping rates from UK to Canada aren't that far off from US to Canada, so not really a concern.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I used to sail my solo canoe when tripping on occasion. I'd lash a paddle to near the bow, and string my tarp back to the stern. Then lash the spare paddle at midships down into the water to act as a dagger board. It was a great downwind rig. Could make time on a beam. Never went to wind.

My best canoe sailing was when we lashed two boats together to create a catamaran. We did this on our way down the Missinaibi River. Prevailing winds were behind us most of the way, so we sailed for more than a week in this rig. 

Given the large number of CI-CII rapids on the route, we also learned how to run raps as a catamaran. Now THAT was challenging.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Arcb said:


> One is the Balogh Sail Designs batwing sail rig. Crazy expensive, but I have seen them perform and they certainly get the job done. BSD Rigs for Canoes - Product list. they are pricey, but ever since I sold my keel boat, I figure I am saving about $5k a year on moorage, so...


They may be expensive but likely worth it. Since paddling and sailing are your thing. Used kayaks and canoes are available for really cheap (I spent $100 combined for my last two boats) and you can move a good sailing rig from boat to boat.

Other options would be sailboatstogo.com 





https://www.sailboatstogo.com/content/Canoe_Sailing

CLC also has a sailing rig.

https://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/wooden-sailboat-kits/clc-sailrig-kayak-canoe-sailing-rig.html


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

One thing to consider with kayak sailing is in order to get anything other than downwind performance, you will need a lot of extra gear, outriggers, leeboards and rudder. Not a problem when the winds are in your favor but if the winds are too strong or two light you have the awkward gear to store and also the extra weight.

An easy simple option is to get two wind paddles for your crew and you can be in the back as stern rudder.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

It's too bad I can't get to my sailboat in Newfoundland right now. I have a lateen rig for my portabote dinghy. I've used it a few times, but it's kinda a pita to use. I was thinking of getting rid of it. You could probably use it on a canoe.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I have seen a few companies marketing those latine rigs as canoe rigs, but can you reef them? I can't imagine sailing a canoe without an easy reefing system.

Jeptohog, the first kayak I ever sailed had a wind paddle, it was actually pretty good for running down wind. 

I have been playing quite a bit with down wind kayak sail rigs, I am thinking something with a bit more horsepower with some upwind capability. 

Here is a pic from my first wind paddle sail.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Arcb said:


> I have seen a few companies marketing those latine rigs as canoe rigs, but can you reef them? I can't imagine sailing a canoe without an easy reefing system.


Haven't tried with mine. Probably not easily. I suppose you could install reef ties in the sail. When you want to reef, lower the halyard and tie off the excess sail onto the boom as you would a Marconi-type sail ... maybe?


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

You could weld a weighted keel onto the bottom and not have to worry about capsizing, outriggers & other paraphenalia. 25kg about 80 cm down would keep her well on her feet. Use a NACA profile for the best foil.


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## pilott (Aug 18, 2016)

I fitted a trolling motor to my 16ft cedar strip/epoxy canoe, with a truck battery under the rear seat. It went like a dream!
Range was about 2 hrs


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

This is another possible route:






Friends with foilers (Wazps, Wetas) swear that they're really stable once you're up until they're not. Not sure exactly what they mean by that.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Lol. Foiling a 1973 Grumman canoe sounds a little unhinged. I like it!


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Okay, had the share this. Somebody on one of my Kayak sailing groups shared this. It looks pretty cool. Polytarp international. Sells sail making kits and finished sails made from polytarp. Kits start at $90, finished sails start at $130.

Seems like something Bolger would have highly approved of.

So, one could buy an old wind surfer mast for $30, poly tarp sail for $90, and be off to the races.

Okay, probably wouldn't be racing with that set up, but you could be having a whole lot of fun and laughs.

https://polysail.com/index.php/products/polysail-kits/


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

What about an Optimist rig? Sail area is about right, low aspect. 

I see there is a free Ootimist in my local classifieds, hull is shot, guy wants it off his property.


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

I recall Grumman had a sailing kit. Included a lateen sail, leeboards and a rudder.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Waltthesalt said:


> I recall Grumman had a sailing kit. Included a lateen sail, leeboards and a rudder.


Yes, Grumman had at various times both a latine and a gunter rig. Would love to get my hands on the Gunter. Both are big sail area rigs on 75 pound boats.

Very cool.

Here is a vid I found of the latine. Looks like white knuckle sailing.

Too much fun.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

That guy is definitely paying attention. F 5 is plenty of wind with that size sail. The leeboards seem to work pretty well. He’s not slipping too much to leeward, though it also looks like he’s not trying to head up too much -- there’s a lot going on between the puffs, the sheet, the tiller lines, keeping his weight in the right place, and the edge of the lake coming up fast. Less wind would be more relaxing, but that’s obviously not ARCB’s style.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Decided to go with a Sprit Rig. Lumber yards and chandlerys are closed now, so I had to use a bit of ingenuity. 

Made a prototype sprit sail from polytarp. Once I had a prototype sail, I could work on rig dimensions.

Used an old sabbot rig somebody had discarded but cut about 4 ft off the end with my chain saw.

Didn't have any suitable lumber for a sprit yard so I fashioned one from a staight piece of alder using my ax. Sail is about 40 sq feet, in line with optis, sabbots, Walker Bays, etc. 

My next task will be to build a sailing thwart so I can mount the rig to the boat.

Not a bad looking rig for poly tarp and an afternoon with an ax and chainsaw.


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## Ninefingers (Oct 15, 2009)

Fantastic! It would be so rewarding to build a sailboat from scratch and make it actually sail. If it went upwind I would be ecstatic. I'm not talking about 100000 hours of work with white oak and dacron, but what you are doing. Fashioning a boat with basically found objects and no sewing machine is just amazingly cool. 

Like, I said, I'm sure I could get one to go downwind, but being able to point even 1 degree upwind would be so rewarding because then you are just over the threshold of being able to harness/control the wind for travel.

Can you hot glue some thin strips of wood to the poly to act as battens/stiffeners?


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Interesting idea re the sail stiffeners.

My plan is to use the polytarp sail to test the rig. I patterned the rig directly off an opti rig, so if I am happy with the performance, I may just buy a dacron Optimist rig from intensity sails ($89).

Today I designed the mast partner and mast step. My shopping list is; 2x6x12 hemlock board, 4 x bolts, nuts and washers. And either West System Gflex 650 or 3M 5200 to glue the mast step into the bilge.

Any thoughts on 5200 vs Gflex 650 for adhesion to aluminum? Force on the mast step will be minimal, mostly just compression as the mast partner (bolted to the gunwale) takes most of the sailing loads. 

By the way, mast sep and partner material cost will be $35-40, bringing total material cost to ~$57. I figure if I spend another $40 on leeboards, I will be sailing for $100. Not bad. If I go with a dacron Opti Sail, I am still under $250.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Progress continues. 

I was able to dry fit mast partner and mast step today. Both still need finished with varnish and some aesthetic contouring but I wanted to test their fit before getting into that. 

Both came from a 2 x 8 x 12 piece of rough lumber. 

Mast partner was first cut to a manageable length with my chain saw, then trimmed to a snug fit using first band saw then electric hand plane. The square hole was hollowed out using drill and sabre saw.

Mast step was cut on band saw then hollowed out to a depth of approximately 1" using tip of chainsaw and chisel.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

What is the weight of the mast

One concern would be what these different will do when the canoe is dumped...forces...how they will want to move


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Mast is prety light. Guessing 12 or 13 pounds. Nicely tapered too so most weight is down low. Even mast head sheave is wood. Mast should provide some buoyancy in a capsize, maybe inhibit turtling. Won't know until I try


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

Nice work Arcb. About 60 years ago my brother made a canvas on wood rib 40'' x 16' canoe... the plans came from a Popular Mechanics magazine. After paddling around on the Detroit River several times (we grew up in Windsor) he decided that a sail would be a good idea. He fashioned the spars from odd lumber and the sail cloth came from the stage curtain at the church that we cleaned for spending money, the curtain had been replaced with a new one. Lee boards were added. It really did sail quite well as far as I can remember and he never did dump it...a bit surprising maybe as the Detroit River could be challenging with the boat and freighter traffic. I'm not being very helpful but your project brought back fond memories.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Masthead pool noodle.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Mast float is a neat idea. Problem with open sailing canoes is they swamp when they dump.

I have been advised the best way to avoid a swamping in a dump is inflatable side air bags.

They are about half way down this page. These ones come from the UK £70 for a set.

Accessories


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

A couple of pics. Just about ready for sea trials. Not bad for a week of evenings with a chain saw, scrap lumber, a tarp and a 5 year old assistant ship wright.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

You probably already have various sizes of dry bags
Thats a lot of flotation


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Arcb said:


> A couple of pics. Just about ready for sea trials. Not bad for a week of evenings with a chain saw, scrap lumber, a tarp and a 5 year old assistant ship wright.


Looks good. Love to see it in action.

You probably already covered this, but what are you using for a dagger board?


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Good question mike, and I haven't covered it yet. 

I haven't decided. I think I will go with a single lee board.

The lee board itself should be fairly straightforward. I have a Michael Storer design for the board itself which I will likely go with. Michael Storer is a well respected australian wooden boat designer with succesful designs including the Goat Island Skiff and the Voila Sailing Canoe. So, I am confident the board will do what I want it to do.

The tricky part is the leeboard bracket. I am thinking a wood block of Canadian maple bolted down to the mast partner. Drill a hole through the mast partner and use a large suze carraige bolt with big washers to allow the board to rotate? Not sure, have to design it and build it to see if it will work.

Simple drawing.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I have heard sailing canoes refferred to as organic boats because of their tendency towards evolution.

I have redesigned my mainsail after having difficulty getting the sail to set properly. I chopped 18 inches off the peak, built a pocket luff and a pocket for the sprit boom. I have gone to a shorter lighter mast and gone to a loose footed sail. I have "sailed" the boat in my yard in this configuration and I am satisfied I can sail her. 

I also added a kayak sail as a head sail. The result being a cat schooner rig of approximately 37 sq ft.

I hope to test her out this week end. Down wind only as I have yet to design a lee board.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Iirc, the windrider 16 mainsail has a sleeve for the mast and is loose foot
Very simple


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## cptcaveman (May 14, 2020)

In last picture, your canoe looks great! Hope your test goes well! I am curious for the test.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I think I will go with outriggers. I am reviewing the commercially available options and weighing the pros and cons of buying vs building. Might go with inflatable amas with an aluminum cross bar. The cross bar can double as a convenient mounting point for a pivoting lee board.


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## Ninefingers (Oct 15, 2009)

Arcb said:


> I think I will go with outriggers. I am reviewing the commercially available options and weighing the pros and cons of buying vs building. Might go with inflatable amas with an aluminum cross bar. The cross bar can double as a convenient mounting point for a pivoting lee board.


Having owned a Hobie Island, I definitely encourage amas. The Island's were retractable, doubt you want to go that far, but you never know do you? Also, I wonder if a small fin/dagger would be a nice feature in them. Controlling lee drift was always a battle with the Island. It would "point" up wind, but wouldn't actually go in that direction if you know what I mean.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Some 6 or 8 inch pvc pipe with a heat gun and some patience might yield something interesting


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

RegisteredUser said:


> Some 6 or 8 inch pvc pipe with a heat gun and some patience might yield something interesting


What are your thoughts here? Use the heat gun to mold the pvc pipe into a streamlined shape? I wonder how I would seal the ends? Just heat it and kind of pinch/fold the ends over?


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

I would try shaping the front
Soften, pinch at some angle, glue it
A large vise would be the trick but could just clamp it

The length might be shaped in some kinda hinged boards thingy...heating inside the pipe...squeeze it down v shaped as able


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

My linking shillz left the room....

Guy uses boat fenders

'Canoe sail lake murray'

Utube


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Quite the lashing, but it works.

These inflatable amas are a bit of a racket I think. I have been researching them on amazon etc.

Cheapest pair I found provide <30 lbs of buoyancy come with no hardware and cost $60 usd. That seems kinda pricey to me.

The most expensive I found come with a full set of hardware but cost $800 usd.

Mid range with hardware run in the $400 neigbourhood. 

Crazy. The boat only cost me $450. Sail was maybe $20. I can buy an off the shelf canoe sail for £160 or have one custom made to my own design at a local loft for maybe $400 cdn. 

Why are inflatable amas so expensive?


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Maybe kerp eyes peeled for a hobie island...that somebody ran over with a car


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Maybe foam flutter boards from Cdn Tire. Do a plywood backing plate. Might work okay.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

What about...

2 flutter boards. One offset in front of the other. Contoured with a knife then glassed in? Maybe 25 pounds of buoyancy each, but planing surfaces so as speed increases, so to does lift?


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

RegisteredUser said:


> Iirc, the windrider 16 mainsail has a sleeve for the mast and is loose foot
> Very simple


I rented a Windrider 16. The trip away from the dock was a blast, I was laughing hooting and hollering all the way downwind. Trying to get back up the bay to the rental place was another story. I think I was tacking 95 degrees to the wind. I really wish I had a paddle for that leg.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

How are your woodworking skills?

https://www.clcboats.com/shop/kit_options/clc-sailrig-kayak-canoe-sailing-rig/259.html


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

jephotog said:


> How are your woodworking skills?
> 
> https://www.clcboats.com/shop/kit_options/clc-sailrig-kayak-canoe-sailing-rig/259.html


So so to be honest.

I have my grampas old tools in my garage.

Band saw, electric plane, jig saw, circular saw, sabre saw, lots of clamps. It's all old equipment though (70's)?


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

I don't think this would be a too complicated project. A table saw and bandsaw or a jigsaw, a block plane or belt sander should be all it should take to make these amas.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Arcb said:


> It's all old equipment though (70's)?


My nicest piece of equipment is a 70s era tablesaw it is the center of my workshop.

One thing I like about your current setup is it looks streamlined, meaning not to built up. If you were to build the CLC amas I suggested you loose that, you would be stuck with a big solid float you would have to deal with when it is not needed.

The Sailboatogo setup would be nice because it would give you a deflation option to get it out of the way when needed.

https://www.sailboatstogo.com/catalog/kayak_rig/1013


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Nice find. That's a better price than I have been seeing on Amazon. I might actually go with that.


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## Ninefingers (Oct 15, 2009)

I have a large inflatable seat that came with my AVON, It's 3 foot long x 1 foot hotdog. I'm sure it has a good 100lbs of flotation, but that sort of thing would drag a lot, or maybe not if it's pumped hard. In any event, my experience with my old Hobie Island was that the amas didn't provide any planing help, they would just bury in the water at about 15knots wind. The heeling forces on a narrow hull are pretty large. I think any ama is going to add drag, but the real benefit is stability.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Well. This was a disaster.

Went for test sail with wife and kid, didn't work out to well.

Son, 5 explains to me in very simple terms. Our sharpie has a roof, pillows to lay down on, a galley to make hot chocolate.

Simply put, he told me to get my head out of my arse because our sailboat was in nearly every way a superior boat.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Arcb said:


> Well. This was a disaster. ...
> 
> Simply put, [my son] told me to get my head out of my arse because our sailboat was in nearly every way a superior boat.


Well, we all knew that .


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Why?
> 
> I went canoeing during graduation senior week in college. Had to leave on a bus at 6am to get to some god forsaken river, to paddle through some light rapids all day, just to come home. I did not want to go and had barely gotten to sleep at 1am the night before, from other graduation festivities. My girlfriend at the time insisted.
> 
> ...


Not everything comes in 50 ft sizes with big price tags and Uber maintainence , that's why.

Different levels of commitment to get out into nature and on the water. There are times I long for the simpler Hobie 16 I once sailed.

It was what I could afford both financially and time wise as well as was loads of fun, challenging and was quick and easy to use.

Different levels for different people as long as they have fun, get out on the water, in this case as a family, and can do it in their own financial space.

Personally I used a canoe a lot when I was in scouts and I was a teenager and MOST of my experiences were positive

Questioning somebody who has aspirations like this should be met with positive thoughts vs negative ones.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I got an unexpected opportunity to do a multi day solo trip coming up, so I decided to double down on this project. I could have taken my trailer sailer but really didn't want to be restricted by a gas engine.

I have made quite a few changes including lightening the rig, adding a pivoting leeboard of my own design and adding 86 pounds of positive side buoyancy. 

Decided to go with a loose footed sail- I have several sail rigs in my garage both dacron and polytarp but wanted to go with a loose footed sprit. 

Because it's a solo set up, I need to sit in the middle to trim out the boat. Went with a sawed off lawn chair, rather than adding another fixed bench seat. Figure if sailing got lively, would fold up the lawn chair and use the aft thwart as a seat. 

I believe this set up is Superior to my last attempt.

A friend and fellow canoe sailor suggested that I name this boat "Hold My Beer".


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

If you're going to call it that, you need to add drink holders. One for the beer and another for the bug spray.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Had some really pretty nice sailing today. My leeboard placement is causing quite a bit of weather helm, but it's been manageable will repack the boat tomorrow with more weight aft. Should help some. Covered maybe 20 miles today in light winds. Half sailing, half paddling.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Is that a vestibule tent you dont have rigged


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

No. It's a Walmart Ozark 4. Our Marmot bit the dust in Fort Desoto in February. This was all that was available at the time. $35. Not a bad little tent, but no vestibule.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

The dog and I are weathering a pretty good thunderstorm in it right now. Its holding up pretty well. Just had to put our bags on the windward side to keep the corners from folding in.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

That tent could double as a spinnaker if you put in a backstay. Where are the kids?


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Complicated socially distant visit with grandparents.

Not sure I could swing a backstay with a home made poly tarp sprit rig. 
The sprit rig is surprisingly effective on the canoe. I went with almost a square shape to get the CE down as low as possible.

Didn't run a GPS today, so don't know what speed I hit, but the Grumman was throwing a substantial wake, so I am guessing over hull speed, in some pretty light winds too. Don't expect much performance to weather though.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Arcb said:


> Not sure I could swing a backstay with a home made poly tarp sprit rig.


Did you make that sail yourself? Any link to instructions on how to cut and glue a tarp to the shape you want?


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Yes, made the sail myself in about 2 hours using the good parts of an old winter cover and 2 sided carpet tape. Cost was maybe around $10. It works pretty well too.

There are quite a few online resources and books that cover polytarp sails, but Duckworks has a pretty good over view here. Making a Polytarp Sail

First time sail makers can get kits from a company called Polysail International with instructions and materials, price is a little over $100. I haven't used them myself, but I have heard good things.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Arcb said:


> Yes, made the sail myself in about 2 hours using the good parts of an old winter cover and 2 sided carpet tape. Cost was maybe around $10. It works pretty well too.


Thanks Arcb,

I have more sails and tarps than I know what to do with. My last boat purchase came with a larger sail inventory than I believe my last 4 boats combined had. I also have 3 different canoe/kayak sails.

I have been doing a lot of camping and creating custom tarps for boat covers and camping shelters would be awesome.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Update. She is starting to look more like a boat and less like a collection of lumber and parts.

- I have increased sail area from 27 to 49 square feet and switched from polytarp to dacron.
-I have moved the mast step forward to the original Grumman factory position which allows for through bolted mast step and mast partner. I found during test sails, glued (5200) mast steps were unreliable.
-added the cheap inflatable amas on an 8 ft 1.25 inch aluminum aka, which gives me an estimated +160 pounds of righting moment. 
-Also used the aka to.mount the pivoting lee board on. I did have the leeboard mounted on the partner, but that put my CLR too far forward and the boat wouldn't balance right.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Life is an unending sieries of prototypes


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Got out testing this new and improved rig today. About 10 knots of wind or so.

She was fast. Acceleration was almost beach cat like. Boat only weighs 75 pounds and has a 16 foot water line.

But she was also really squirlley to sail. One minute rounding up hard, the next uncontrollably bearing off. This made what could otherwise have been reasonable progress to weather, more like just holding my own.

I attribute this squirlley behaviour, at least in part, to not having a rudder and trying to steer with paddle.








Looks like I am going to need to add a rudder. No big surprise there, but not really sure about engineering a rudder for such an awkward stern shape.


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## paradoxbox (Oct 6, 2006)

Polynesians used steering oars lashed to the sides of their canoe. Some had two oars, one at each end, others just moved the oar to the other end of the boat when they shunted.

I'd suggest looking at making a good lashing / loop attached to the seats of the canoe and use a steering oar inserted into the loop. If you're able to, you can fix the lashings to the actual bow or stern instead which will make steering easier.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Maybe an ' oarlock'. Think Thai longtail


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Here is my setup.

The twin rudders on it are mounted on a cross bar much like you did for the amas. There is like Capt Len described an oarlock on the tiller and a pin hole in the cross arm. You need leverage to pry against.


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## paradoxbox (Oct 6, 2006)

woops wrong thread


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

That looks like a "sailboats to go" set up?

I was looking at some of their steering and leeboard solutions. It seems like pretty good bang for the buck. Do you find the steering arrangement pretty good?


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Arcb said:


> That looks like a "sailboats to go" set up?
> 
> I was looking at some of their steering and leeboard solutions. It seems like pretty good bang for the buck. Do you find the steering arrangement pretty good?


I would not know. It was the first time using it. it worked fine in the driveway.

I bought the whole setup 2 years ago and use the duckey regularly but never set up the sail rig till that day. The day I was going to try it out was uncharacteristically low wind. Hopefully, I will get to try it out this week.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Well these are cool. Canoe gudgeons. $18 for a set including hardware. I have an old sabbot rudder and tiller in my garage that should work nicely.





__





Hardware - Sailboat Hardware - Rudder & Tiller - Gudgeons - Duckworks Boat Builders Supply







www.duckworks.com


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Had a lot of fun with my sailing canoe this year. Think I will upgrade from scraps, spend a bit of money and get a proper rig.

I have done a bunch of research and narrowed my rig selection down to two off the shelf rig by established canoe rig manufacturers. Both are 36 square feet (don't laugh, it's a canoe with a 36 inch beam).

The leading contender is a reasonably modern high aspect rig by Solway Dory, UK. Reefing is accomplished by wrapping the sail around the mast. Pros and cons to this, loses efficiency the more it's reefed, but is super easy and lets me reef to very small. Loose footed with controllable outhaul, boomvang and mid boom sheeting.  The Expedition Bermudan Rig

Close runner up is the BSD Batwing 36. This is a batwing sail, more or less based on a junk rig. Lower aspect than option a, but not as low as a gaff, lug or sprit. Probably the biggest pros are relatively low centre of effort and no real loss in performance due to reefing, due to being a kind of junk. BSD Rigs for Canoes - Product list

Either sail will need to be imported and shipping costs as well as purchase costs are a wash after currency conversion. So, if you have opinions on which way I should go, lemme know 

Will also be fabricating a new leeboard, will be swapping out my old flat, short sabbot daggerboard for something made from hard wood, about 4.5 feet long that pivots. Will make this on my band saw at home. Have a Michael Storer design, figure he knows about as much about canoe sailing as just about any one, so no need to reinvent the wheel.


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## UtahGuy (Jul 28, 2021)

New guy here. I'm plotting on a sail and outrigger for my 14' Scanoe and this thread has been helpful, thanks!

I have sailed exactly once (coincidentally in a 17' Grumman). It was an ad hoc affair at a campground with lashed logs for a mast and outrigger and a duct taped polytarp sail and we couldn't go anywhere but downwind because we didn't know about leeboards (although we did learn the importance of being able to rapidly depower the sail). I hope this round goes better.


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