# Where to move to ? So Cal or Florida?



## vegasandre (Jun 20, 2009)

I would like all suggestions and opinions on plusses and minuses of both areas in regards to possible relocation.
I am married and have 3 kids ages 6-11 

We own a successful buisness in Las Vegas but dont have to be here full time . We have been here 10 years (originally NJ) and need a change +dont want to raise kids any more here. . I own a Catalina 350 which is in San Diego.I love sailing and fishing equally. Though I love San diego and the boat is there ,which would make it a logical move- there are some things which Kind of annoy me in Cali- the traffic,some of the people, water not warm enough, limited destinations,state income tax . Being that I love warm locations - we have pretty much narrowed it down to San Diego/Orange County or South Florida for our next move. 

From what I am seeing on S Fla so far:
plusses:
more tropical climate
better sailing destinations
no state tax
could possible have a sailboat and fishing boat docked in my backyard 
great year round fishing

minuses-
bugs
humidity
more rain
hurricanes
higher property tax
higher insurance for boats and houses

As far as So Cal:
plusses-
great temperate weather
good surfing /fishing 

minuses-
property values in good school areas still too high
general Keeping up with the Joneses mentality
water cold
lack of destinations
kelp everywhere
state income tax
state may be bankrupt. 
traffic sux
may gray june gloom


We are looking for a place to raise the kids on or very close to the water. 
we need great school area. I would like great sailing destinations and fishing destinations (mainly saltwater inshore and offshore). Somewhat affordable. 
We will eventually have a mid 40's Catamaran and a 30 ft- ish sport fisherman. Also would like a good "atmosphere" for raising family. 

all suggestions /opinions /experiances are very welcome!!!!
thank you in advance for your input.


----------



## lahso (Nov 1, 2009)

I've lived in both Florida (Orlando) and Cali (Venice, Manhattan Beach) and can say that you hit the +/-s on the head. I've lived in most coastal parts of the country and can say that without a doubt, Orlando was the worst. I was never a fan of Miami either, or the keys. I spent about 7 months down in Marathon, FL and it stunk. I called it the TTP - Tropical Trailer Park (hope not to offend anyone too much). 

Yea, California traffic is bad, but it's easy to get around it if you know how to beat the system. Manhattan Beach is not cheap, but its the best schools in the area and it's like living in a resort town (kinda like Vegas, right). SoCal is great in a lot of ways... but it is a rat-race, and it does get tiresome.

When I was in FL, I was on a lake wakeboarding, so I can't speak to sailing and fishing... I'm sure that's fantastic. There's not a lot of places to sail to in SoCal (comparatively) but that doesn't mean there's not enough for a lifetime of sailing available around here. And I can't think of a better time than catching Yellowfin Tuna down in Mexico, or exploring the channel islands extensively.

I dunno, if it was me - California wins, but that's why I live here I guess.

~mt


----------



## bilgepump (Jan 10, 2010)

Florida is beautifull. I don't care for the stress associated with the coming of hurricanes. That leaves California as the logical choice for me.


----------



## n0w0rries (May 17, 2009)

Do you guys really see kelp everywhere as a minus? It's not everywhere, and it's phenomenal to dive in.

I'm a native Californian. Every time I think about leaving I hear about somebody who left coming back. We do have our share of problems though.


----------



## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

New Zealand?


----------



## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

I'm pulling out of this kettle of fish... self-censorship is the better part of valor.


----------



## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

> There's not a lot of places to sail to in SoCal (comparatively) but that doesn't mean there's not enough for a lifetime of sailing available around here. And I can't think of a better time than catching Yellowfin Tuna down in Mexico, or exploring the channel islands extensively.


That's kinda how we feel, we could spend the rest of our lifes sailing this area while avoiding most ( not all ) of the BS


----------



## vegasandre (Jun 20, 2009)

Thanks for the replys so far guys :

So far its :
So Cal 5
So Florida- Nil
New Zealand-1

A little surprised no Florida supporters yet. I am taking a Florida excursion to Ft Lauderdale in march - As I kind of like it there. Any other Florida suggestions from the Fla supporters? areas, schools, sailing,fishing


as far as the cali kelp: 

"Do you guys really see kelp everywhere as a minus? It's not everywhere, and it's phenomenal to dive in.

I'm a native Californian. Every time I think about leaving I hear about somebody who left coming back. We do have our share of problems though."

I dont mind the kelp when I am fishing - It helps the cause greatly.Funny though when you need the kelp(offshore) its hard to find. 
However seeing it plastered down every beach and in the surf makes me not want to get in the water too fast. Matter of fact except for surfing a few times there I have not went in yet ever .


----------



## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

Is sailing your goal? This including being with the kids? If sailing is your passion, and you want easy cruising grounds that are beautiful.....S.Florida!

I am from the S.F Bay Area. I sailed the bay for nearly 2 decades. I sailed to P.V. and back to S.F. I was always in a hurry to get to the South Pacific, and then I discovered the real Bahamas. The outer islands, uninhabited islands, the Exuma Park & the Exumas themselves. I have sailed San Salvador, Abacos, the Banks, Tongue of the Ocean, and it's all 1/2-4 days away from Miami. We explored for 4 seasons, and have only seen the tip of the iceberg.

Do you want solitude, hundreds of boats, small villages, etc. etc. Well the Bahamas has it all, and it's gorgeous. Don't think I have forgotten about the S.P. I am preparing to go there now, but if you want to be in the USA, and have a great cruising ground very near. S. Florida is it.

If you home school the kids you can stay away the whole school season, and enjoy the warmth the Bahamas have. Summer sailing on Biscayne Bay, and the Keys can be a treat. The bay is large, flat, good breeze, and tons of anchorages that are isolated, or populated.

Ca. has a ton to offer, and the weather is mostly ideal, but if sailing, exploring while cruising is what you seek. Then Florida is your choice, and all this from somone who misses Ca. Take a peek at my gallery. Most of it is the Bahamas ..........*i2f*


----------



## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

I'm in Florida more than anywhere else, but I do spend hurricane season in New England. Sure, Marathon, Miami, Lauderdale....are overcrowded and lacking because of their "resort" nature & Orlando isn't even on the coast. Florida has more to offer for a fulltime cruiser if you're at least 100 miles from "South Beach". Of ccourse, Imagine2frolic is right about Biscayne Bay and the Bahamas,- We just don't spend time in the big cities or the cruiser's destinations.
'take care and joy, Aythya crew


----------



## rchrdcoe (Jun 28, 2005)

*s.cal vs s.fla*

for my money, Fl is way better than So Cal. I've lived both . Los Angeles is way to crowded, the only place to go is Catalina. My favorite is southwest Fl. I currently live is West Palm Beach but the area in sw Fl from Tarpon Springs all the way to the keys and the Tortugas is the best. The East coast is also good especially Stuart where you can connect to Ft Myers on the West Fl. coast via the Okeechobee waterway. Or go the the Bahamas if that is your preference. St. Petersberg on Tampa Bay is a sailors paradise as far as I'm concerned. Marinas with sailboats in them instead of power.
Richard


----------



## CoastalEddie (Dec 15, 2009)

vegasandre said:


> I dont mind the kelp when I am fishing - It helps the cause greatly.Funny though when you need the kelp(offshore) its hard to find.
> *However seeing it plastered down every beach and in the surf makes me not want to get in the water too fast. Matter of fact except for surfing a few times there I have not went in yet ever .*


Huh?

I've never really understood why some people are afraid to swim in and around kelp. It doesn't bite. And those old myths about getting tangled in a little kelp and drowning are just that, myths.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Go to SW Florida or move north or West Palm. I do not care for Miami at all, and Fort Lauderdale is basically Miami now. On the west side of FL, there are all kinds of cruising destinations and relatively uninhabited. The negative is that he bahamas are a haul, but for weekend outings (which is what you will mostly have if your kids are in school) there are a lot of things and places to see close by.

I could live anywhere and chose to make SW FL my base. And yes, I have sailed Southern California too and have been to Cat Island. It is pretty, but not right for me. I have NOT been to Mexico or the Baja which I hear is a great destination. However, aren't those types of runs a different conversation then what you will have time for or be able to do with kids in school and limited time off for long distance runs?

Just my thoughts - SW FL.

Brian


----------



## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

I agree with CD and Imagine....

We just moved to Santa Rosa Beach, Florida, in the panhandle. We're six miles from Seaside and Watercolor. The water is spectacular, but it's hurricane country here. The schools are fantastic. Bay Elementary is one of the best schools in the southeast. Seaside is a charter school, and it's fantastic. But I'm going to be a freaking mess during storm season next summer....


----------



## smillinjack (Aug 13, 2009)

*House Bill 1423*

Florida also has House Bill 1423 that is a big minus, I'm not sure if it has passed yet.


----------



## CoastalEddie (Dec 15, 2009)

smillinjack said:


> Florida also has House Bill 1423 that is a big minus, I'm not sure if it has passed yet.


What's the big fuss?

http://www.boatus.com/gov/GA005FLAnchoring.pdf


----------



## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

sailhog said:


> I agree with CD and Imagine....
> 
> But I'm going to be a freaking mess during storm season next summer....


My first year here during hurricane season I was like a cat on a hot tin roof. By the third year I was taking it in stride. I sat on Imagine during Jane & Frances in my second year. It's kind of like living next to the railroad tracks. After awhile you just get use to it like you do earthquakes, and I was living on Twin Peaks during the 89  quake..........*i2f*


----------



## Banshi (Jul 4, 2007)

Government on the brink of bankruptcy (to "pay for it" you have to first "tax for it"), higher taxes, ridiculous government over regulation, higher unemployment rates, higher cost of living and the fact that uke Nazi Pilosi is from California........

Florida schools ranked 10th nationally last time I checked so I guess money probably isn't the answer after all. Now, having an inside track on what's actually going on, that's probably nothing to brag about.

Florida hands down, just avoid the Dade County (south eastern) area. No hable englishee............ 

Just for the record I do have family in the San Diego area and they have been there a long time so it can't all be bad..................


----------



## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

vegasandre said:


> "Do you guys really see kelp everywhere as a minus? It's not everywhere, and it's phenomenal to dive in.


Not really; we go about 2 mile SSE to get around a kelp preserve right off Point Loma, but it's no big deal


----------



## CoastalEddie (Dec 15, 2009)

Banshi said:


> "... Nazi Pilosi is from California........
> ... just avoid the Dade County (south eastern) area. No hable englishee............ "


Well, well...a racist calling others "Nazi". Why am I not surprised?


----------



## CoastalEddie (Dec 15, 2009)

And Banshi, before you say it, I know, you don't have anything against anyone, as long as they sound, and look, and act like you, right?


----------



## vegasandre (Jun 20, 2009)

Thank you for your replies.

The Florida backers have stepped up to the plate and the Tally now stands

So CAL- 5
Fla-6
New Zealand-1


As far as the Kelp its :
No Big Deal- 2
Hate Kelp -1 

I love Kelp When I am 30 miles offshore and schools of Yellowfin,Dorado and Yellowtail are under it - but at the beach or going around PT LOMA in the sailboat - I do have Kelpophobia. 
Ya know and Diving in the stuff? Not sure with seals darting in and out and Great ****** waiting for the seals on the outside .

Keep the suggestions coming. This is helping us out greatly . 

thanks again.


----------



## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

My family has been in San Francisco since the early 1800's. Having lived in California most of my life, the idea of moving to anywhere, but particularly to Florida, was all but unthinkable. Never-the-less, the business situation was such that we did move--in 1992--for what we thought would be 5 years, during which I had to commute back to our office in Santa Barbara every other week. After 5 years the question of whether to return "home" finally came up, to which the answer was a resounding "No Way, Jose!", even if I had to continue commuting.

Aside from the incredible taxes, excess regulations on virtually everything, crowding, traffic, obscene cost of virtually everything, cold water, absence of good cruising grounds, etc., etc. etc., once one gets away from the Peoples Republik of California for awhile, one realizes what a nutty place it really is, especially compared to southwest Florida. Yes, there are hurricanes, but one prepares and if one chooses one's location well, the risk is really no greater than the risks from earthquakes, wild-fires and land-slides in California.

FWIW...


----------



## CoastalEddie (Dec 15, 2009)

vegasandre said:


> Ya know and Diving in the stuff? Not sure with seals darting in and out and Great ****** waiting for the seals on the outside .


I always felt safest diving IN the kelp forest. I've never seen any big sharks actually in the kelp. Although, I have heard of sea otters getting chomped by Great Whites. so maybe the kelp isn't as safe as I always assumed.

The seals are just out to steal _their_ fish back from spear-fishers. Sea lions (particularly the "teenagers"), on the other hand, seem to get their jollies from playing "chicken" with divers. I've never had one actually bump me, but having a 300 lb sea lion swim right at you and peeling away at the last possible instant (close enough to feel its wake) is enough to make you warm up your wetsuit, if you know what I mean.


----------



## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

Well, a while back I posted a question about moving to/living aboard in Florida. I live in L.A. and after I retire, I'll be living off my interest and would like to avoid state taxes. The responses I got (you can find it here if you hunt) were that the BUGS and HUMIDITY in Florida are truly horrible. This is a day to day living issue that didn't appeal to me at all. SoCal weather is really about perfect and I haven't seen ONE mosquito since I left Ohio 30 years ago (seriously!). My new plan is to keep my boat in Marina del Rey and buy a cheap (and getting cheaper) condo in Vegas and claim residency there. I figure I can always charter in Florida for variety, but for day to day living, SoCal is really the best. Also, once you choose a neighborhood to live in, you are pretty insulated from the traffic and crowds unless you have to drive a long way to work. And like someone else mentioned, you learn the right times to be on the freeway. As for the state of the state, I think all states are in big trouble right now (only to be further burdened by the requirements of the pending national health care bill), but I think Meg Whitman will win the governorship and she seems like she might be able to stop the bleeding somewhat. Lastly, if you're considering purchasing, don't be too eager. Values have further to go before they stabilize. The coming inventory of foreclosure sales is staggering. I've been an appraiser here for 18 years, trust me.

Good Luck, and don't forget to shut out the lights when you leave Vegas. My sister lives in Henderson and she says it's pretty empty there these days.

Mike


----------



## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

You know there isn't really just one good choice. I've lived on my sailboat, cruising out of Florida, for 38 years and loved it all. I bet I could have spent all that time in California and been just as pleased. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew


----------



## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

I'm a native Californian who has lived in Florida for the last 17 years. 
I love the climate in CA. Mostly northern CA. I hate the climate in FL anywhere. I hate the traffic in CA. I love the opportunities in FL. At least for the greater part of the last 17 years. 
I would vote for FL just because the sail you would have getting here would be something you would remember for a life time. 

Having said all that, the responsible part of my mind is saying that if you have a successful business, you might want to think about keeping it. At least for the short term.


----------



## bilgepump (Jan 10, 2010)

Banshi said:


> Government on the brink of bankruptcy (to "pay for it" you have to first "tax for it"), higher taxes, ridiculous government over regulation, higher unemployment rates, higher cost of living and the fact that uke Nazi Pilosi is from California........
> 
> Florida schools ranked 10th nationally last time I checked so I guess money probably isn't the answer after all. Now, having an inside track on what's actually going on, that's probably nothing to brag about.
> 
> ...


This is what they must mean by, there goes the neighborhood. Banshi, Your a bad dog. No more bones for you. I'm glad I don't have you for my neighbor. Ignorance is not a substitute for opinion.


----------



## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

California has extremely dire financial problems. There is talk of closing the State Parks. The weather in S Cal is fantastic if close to the ocean. 

Kelp is just a plant, macro algae really. One of the most useful plants as well. Complaining about kelp on the beach is somewhat akin to complaining about seashells on the beach.

The Florida Keys are just great for vacations.

I can't imagine leaving a successful business in this economic environment unless you can retire.

I am also considering many options for re-location. Aside from the state financial problems, my only real problem with S Cal is the sky high cost of housing and cold water. I far prefer S Diego to L.A.

As for being charged by Sea Lions? I've been charged by an Atlantic White Tip while participating in a Bahamas shark feed. Truly exhilarating.

Good luck with the decision. I'm trying to decide between a mono and a cat myself.


----------



## JDLG (Feb 22, 2009)

Texas 
its cheap, great weather (to me anyway) i like the heat, good economy, great coastal and bay sailing though passages to other parts a bit far unless you have the time.


----------



## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

JDLG said:


> Texas
> its cheap, great weather (to me anyway) i like the heat, good economy, great coastal and bay sailing though passages to other parts a bit far unless you have the time.


Funny...what I was thinking as well. Corpus Christi/Padre Island have much to offer the sailor. I think.


----------



## prophecy455 (Mar 28, 2006)

I've lived in Florida most of my life. Orlando, Miami, and briefly in the Tampa Bay area. I spent most last summer in San Diego, my first time there. It has to be the most beautiful place in the US. Your points are well taken though and there is more boating here in Florida. I would live in Miami again if I could though. The bay, the keys, and the Bahamas are good enough to put up with the rude people. One thing you must do though. Spend some July August time here. It is the reason our population isn't like beautiful California.


----------



## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

Welcome to the asylum prophecy.


----------



## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

prophecy455 said:


> I've lived in Florida most of my life. Orlando, Miami, and briefly in the Tampa Bay area. I spent most last summer in San Diego, my first time there. It has to be the most beautiful place in the US. Your points are well taken though and there is more boating here in Florida. I would live in Miami again if I could though. The bay, the keys, and the Bahamas are good enough to put up with the rude people. One thing you must do though. Spend some July August time here. It is the reason our population isn't like beautiful California.


And that post was over 3.5 years in the making............


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

CoastalEddie said:


> Well, well...a racist calling others "Nazi". Why am I not surprised?


I have been away and have no clue what this business is all about, but it has no place in this thread. I am not sure it has a place anywhere on this site. Please drop it down a notch.

THanks.

Brian


----------



## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

My vote would be to live in Naples or Marco Island in Florida. I'm in Fort Lauderdale, and the earlier comments about it being Miami are not really true...I'd call it a rednecky Miami. We do have a lot of "grift" and "hustle" here, con artists, etc.

Naples and Marco are where I'd move if I could get a good job there. Its newer, very upscale (like California) has great family environment and you should be able to buy a really nice place with the depressed market. 

What does it for me are sailing opportunities/destinations in FL vs CA. For example, if you lived in S California:

CA:
Catalina Island
Mexico....????

FL if you lived in Marco:
Sanibel/Captiva
Fort Myers
Tampa...hell the entire west coast of Florida
Middle Keys
Key West/Lower Keys
Upper Keys/Biscayne Bay
BAHAMAS!!!! (literally MONTHS of cruising if not years)
Turks & Caicos
If you've got the time, the entire Caribbean is at your fingertips


----------



## CoastalEddie (Dec 15, 2009)

Cruisingdad said:


> I have been away and have no clue what this business is all about, but it has no place in this thread. I am not sure it has a place anywhere on this site. Please drop it down a notch.
> 
> THanks.
> 
> Brian


I would be glad to, barring any more racist posts. I realize that as an Admin., you have the power, and the responsibility, to moderate the tone of this discussion. On the other hand, you might want to look at the context before you do any more finger-wagging in my direction. If you really think that responding to a clearly racist comment is a greater offense than responding to such a post, I would be more than happy to go elsewhere.


----------



## vegasandre (Jun 20, 2009)

Well it seems that FLA has taken the lead , most notably with a lean towards the SW Florida coast .Thanks Night owl ! we will definately take a look at it. 

A little more about us. 

we will be keeping our buisness in Vegas. I list Bank owned homes for the banks. So buisness is basically great - except for the temporary supply manipulation shutdown- but that will change shortly. 

Mikein LA is correct though - prices still have a ways to fall especially in the high end areas. The So Cal- la Jollas, manhatten and newport beach,RSF, Coronado type areas are all basically toast(of course they all think they are immune to it)The low end and mid end not as much. The same can be said for the 1-5 mill $ Florida mcMansions with waterfront property(like the las olas, rio vista areas,Jupiter, cocunut creek etc. and their ridiculous 40-60k per yr property tax bills) they will plummet massively like the low end did the past 2 years. For that reason we will rent. You can rent a high end home(1 mill plus value) on both coasts for 40% of the same cost to own the same house. Owning does not make sense in this situation. 

as far as the boat. we are definately going to get a cat -especially if FLa is our destination. Family likes the room and less heal aspect - with kids this is a big issue. i love my Catalina 2008 350 mk11 but it has regular fin keel with a 6' 8" draft so I would not be taking it to FLA -if that is our destination(if I had a wing keel I would consider transporting it via land)

Anyway that is that. Some more items of importance are year round baseball for the boys ,Wife must be happy,possible buisness opportunity,Fishing , great schools and great atmosphere to raise the kids( seems like sw fla is winning in that catagory as well) . 

thanks 

Andre


----------



## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

This is why SW Florida wins for me....look at ALL the anchorages  And this is JUST MARCO ISLAND AND THE SURROUNDING AREA!!!!! (thank you ActiveCaptain)

So many places to explore here.










SE Florida isn't nearly as nice sailing. Its all ocean. Between WPB and Biscayne, the anchorages are about 10...and now many have mooring fields that charge you $ to use.


----------



## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

BTW - if you're looking to keep your boat behind your house in Marco Island, I think Isle of Capri is where you want to be...thats where I was looking when homes were in the $600-$800k range. I think they're 1/2 that now for a wet lot which is 5 minutes from the Marco Island inlet. Watch the shallows though!


----------



## nightowle (Aug 2, 2006)

Why not consider Ventura to Central Coast/San Luis Obispo? Probably better property prices than further south, good schools and easy proximity to Las Vegas. No real overnight sailing but great day sailing almost year round and similar weather to San Diego.


----------



## CoastalEddie (Dec 15, 2009)

nightowle said:


> Why not consider Ventura to Central Coast/San Luis Obispo? Probably better property prices than further south, good schools and easy proximity to Las Vegas. *No real overnight sailing* but great day sailing almost year round and similar weather to San Diego.


Huh?

What about the northern Channel Islands from the harbors south of Pt. Conception; or Port San Luis, Morro Bay, and San Simeon if you start in either Port San Luis or Morro Bay? If one is really adventurous, the islands are a day's sail, or maybe a day and a night, from Port San Luis (you just have to get around Conception/Arguello).


----------



## smillinjack (Aug 13, 2009)

CoastalEddie said:


> What's the big fuss?
> 
> http://www.boatus.com/gov/GA005FLAnchoring.pdf


Just more government carp Eddie.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

vegasandre said:


> Well it seems that FLA has taken the lead , most notably with a lean towards the SW Florida coast .Thanks Night owl ! we will definately take a look at it.
> 
> A little more about us.
> 
> ...


In my opinion (stressing my opinion) Naples is still out of sight expensive and not real boater friendly and fewer places to go. Marinas are limited, live aboard marinas are very limited, and Marco was the center of the boat feud about anchoring that went all the way to the Florida Supreme Court (anyone please feel free to alter my facts as I am going off of memory and it has ben a while). Do not get me wrong, it is beautiful there and very exquisite - but was not my first choice and I do 'ok' financially. I know many Californians that have gotten sticker shock in Naples.

I would opt for Punta Gorda or if you like a more laid back atmosphere (but not as nice) Fort Myers Beach (FMB) where I am at. FMB is probably more of the red neck version of coastal living, so it may or may not appeal to you. It is an active community though. THe water here is not as nice as Port CHarlotte. I probably would not move north of Port Charlotte as it seems to get colder there than here and more likely to get a freeze.

Before you go and drop 1/2 million+ on a catamaran, I would sure figure out where I was going to live and start shopping the marinas for a place to put it. I love cats, but I do not own one because finding a place to moor it was very difficult. You might very well end up paying twice what a similar boat-length pays... if not more. This is assuming you can find a marina for it at all. The infrastructure does not support them well down here where marinas/slip rates are a premium. You might be better off getting a larger Catalina or if the heeling bothers you but you still want to live aboard and enjoy the lifestyle, get a good trawler like a Nordhavn, Selene or a Krogen. We almost did and I might still have going back.

Just some thoughts. WIsh you the best in your search. Please let me know if I can assist you with any questions.

All the best,

Brian


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

JDLG said:


> Texas
> its cheap, great weather (to me anyway) i like the heat, good economy, great coastal and bay sailing though passages to other parts a bit far unless you have the time.


There is absolutely no comparrison between Texas and Florida. I have done both and just moved from Texas. My opinion, but the water, islands, destinations, etc in Florida are exponentially better and more abundant. Come cruise down here a bit. You would love it. Traffic sucks though!!!

Brian


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

CoastalEddie said:


> I would be glad to, barring any more racist posts. I realize that as an Admin., you have the power, and the responsibility, to moderate the tone of this discussion. On the other hand, you might want to look at the context before you do any more finger-wagging in my direction. If you really think that responding to a clearly racist comment is a greater offense than responding to such a post, I would be more than happy to go elsewhere.


Please check your PM as we will take this offline.

Brian


----------



## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> In my opinion (stressing my opinion) Naples is still out of sight expensive and not real boater friendly and fewer places to go. Marinas are limited, live aboard marinas are very limited, and Marco was the center of the boat feud about anchoring that went all the way to the Florida Supreme Court (anyone please feel free to alter my facts as I am going off of memory and it has ben a while). Do not get me wrong, it is beautiful there and very exquisite - but was not my first choice and I do 'ok' financially. I know many Californians that have gotten sticker shock in Naples.
> 
> I would opt for Punta Gorda or if you like a more laid back atmosphere (but not as nice) Fort Myers Beach (FMB) where I am at. FMB is probably more of the red neck version of coastal living, so it may or may not appeal to you. It is an active community though. THe water here is not as nice as Port CHarlotte. I probably would not move north of Port Charlotte as it seems to get colder there than here and more likely to get a freeze.
> 
> ...


Brian -

I think you should look at Marco again...after this downturn. I'm seeing absolute capitulation in terms of waterfront home pricing. Remember, that in Souther California a 2 bedroom in any area worth living easily crosses $1MM.

For that kind of money, one can get a wet lot house in Isles of Capri.

And if you have a dock in your back yard, its a lot different living in Marco vs anchoring out there or having to find a marina to live aboard. I think the OP was planning on living on land anyway...not on the boat.

Absolutely agree...if you're living on the hook or are planning on living aboard at a marina, Naples/Marco are not too friendly. But if you OWN a home with waterfront, the place cant be beat.

I found Cape Coral and Punta Gorda to be a bit...(and I'm being candid and frank here...apologies in advance for insulting people)...a bit "country". Although I'm a bit sensitive to this as I've had lots of insults hurled at my wife and I because of ethnicity when we lived up in Jacksonville. Punta Gorda gave me the same vibe as Jacksonville.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

night0wl said:


> Brian -
> 
> I think you should look at Marco again...after this downturn. I'm seeing absolute capitulation in terms of waterfront home pricing. Remember, that in Souther California a 2 bedroom in any area worth living easily crosses $1MM.
> 
> ...


I have not been down there much since the downturn, but when I was last there, waterfront sailbaot access was 5-10 million, with the emphasis on 10. Nothing but Megayachts.

Bonita Springs might be a compromise.

Brian


----------



## vegasandre (Jun 20, 2009)

Ok this Naples/Marco Island area is becoming very interesting. 

As far as locations we kind of like upscale family type areas with a sense of community . I do not want to offend anyone here but I think more country type or areas considered red neck type locations would not be on the list for us(hey I am from the Jersey Shore originally)
Upon a quick search of Naples - sailboat type waterfront properties makes Ft Lauderdale seem low price. Marco Island seems to have a bit more wider range.However it appears a little isolated(from the google maps-never been there). We would be renting at first due to the continued crashing of the high end market. 

thanks for your help!


----------



## vegasandre (Jun 20, 2009)

CoastalEddie said:


> Huh?
> 
> What about the northern Channel Islands from the harbors south of Pt. Conception; or Port San Luis, Morro Bay, and San Simeon if you start in either Port San Luis or Morro Bay? If one is really adventurous, the islands are a day's sail, or maybe a day and a night, from Port San Luis (you just have to get around Conception/Arguello).


Thanks we do like the Santa Barbara area a lot. Its mega bucks too. 
However we definately like the slightly warmer water San Diego area more- closer to the Tuna too. Anything North of Pt Conception is too cold for me (wife might say othewise). And Sea conditions much less stable.


----------



## kelldog (Nov 12, 2009)

This is a GREAT thread! 
I live in the Huntington Beach/Long Beach area in SoCal and over the past 3 days we have seen severe weather (for us SoCal sailors) with more to come. 
I am a transplant form South Carolina and have been here almost 30 years. I think I can count the major storms like this on one hand. 98% of the time SoCal is pretty nice overall but my peeve is the water is indeed cold. Sooo being a sailor i am also looking to make a move to Florida so that I can have a much broader sailing range and WARM water! 
A topic like this lends itself to a bit of political opinion since the topic is the pluses and minuses of CA vs FL and I won't say much except to say CA is in the soup and perhaps worse is to come. Perhaps FL has issues too. 
I love Catalina! I sail there as much as I can and last Aug. I sailed my 28ft Trimaran up to the Channel Islands. A great trip but the water is COLD!  it did not keep me from jumping in but warmer is better.
So for me it will eventually be Florida and probably the Ft. Myers Area or Marathon. I want good water. At this moment I am looking to sail my Trimaran down through the canal and then over but as my plan developes I may find myself buying another Tri over in that area. 
Work will be the issue. My background is R.E and Mortgage. (No, I have no plans to be a RE agent.) I will rent. 

Anyway, did not mean to make this so long...that is my vote. Lot's of sailing venues; warm water = BIG  for me.
Fair winds,
Kelldog
28/30ft Cross Trimaran
S/V Mystic


----------



## CoastalEddie (Dec 15, 2009)

*It's been... Well, it's just been.*



Cruisingdad said:


> I have been away and have no clue what this business is all about, but it has no place in this thread. I am not sure it has a place anywhere on this site. Please drop it down a notch.
> 
> THanks.
> 
> Brian





CoastalEddie said:


> I would be glad to, barring any more racist posts. I realize that as an Admin., you have the power, and the responsibility, to moderate the tone of this discussion. On the other hand, you might want to look at the context before you do any more finger-wagging in my direction. If you really think that responding to a clearly racist comment is a greater offense than responding to such a post, I would be more than happy to go elsewhere.


The offensive part of Banshi's original missive, to which I was referring above, and to which there has yet to be a public Admin. response:



Banshi said:


> ... just avoid the Dade County (south eastern) area. No hable englishee............


From Brian's PM to me, 0828 this morning:



Cruisingdad said:


> He was not attacking anyone or getting personal, but you did and you took it on yourself to call him a racist and for the record, I do not find any of his comments racist.


I guess there's nothing left to say but "_Adios_".


----------



## SailingStNick (Dec 13, 2006)

vegasandre said:


> Ok this Naples/Marco Island area is becoming very interesting.
> 
> As far as locations we kind of like upscale family type areas with a sense of community . I do not want to offend anyone here but I think more country type or areas considered red neck type locations would not be on the list for us(hey I am from the Jersey Shore originally)
> Upon a quick search of Naples - sailboat type waterfront properties makes Ft Lauderdale seem low price. Marco Island seems to have a bit more wider range.However it appears a little isolated(from the google maps-never been there). We would be renting at first due to the continued crashing of the high end market.
> ...


I have a friend that's the Episcopal priest on Marco. We visited once. From my understanding, it's a snowbird community, so kind of empty in the summer. The population triples to 45k in the winter. Housing is definitely more reasonable (than California for sure, probably than Miami). Upscale, good schools through middle school, then they're bused to Lely High School about thirty minutes off the island. His daughter is doing fine there and has a great group of friends. They're trying to get a charter high school built on Marco.

Isolated? Maybe, but 45 minutes to Naples. Close to the Everglades, and tons of isolated islands to cruise around.

That's all I know. Definitely an outsiders opinion. I try to imagine moving somewhere warmer than the Mississippi coast. Florida is expensive, but nothing like CA!

BTW here's a great demographic tool: MelissaData


----------



## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> I have not been down there much since the downturn, but when I was last there, waterfront sailbaot access was 5-10 million, with the emphasis on 10. Nothing but Megayachts.
> 
> Bonita Springs might be a compromise.
> 
> Brian


Remember when I said capitulation? You can get open water homes for $1.5MM all day long. And homes with smaller waterfront on canals for $500k. Those would need no work.

Homes that need a lot of work can probably be had in the $350k range.

Its even worse in Fort Lauderdale. I live west of I-95...with a 55' fixed bridge. Which means generally most sailboats 38' and less and even some 40's (Island Packet 40, PSC 40, Valiant 40 at low tide) and there are now tru foreclosures selling for $280k. That same house at the peak of this bubble sold in 2005 for $718k. True story...thats the house 3 doors down from me 

What sucks is that I know I'm screwed for the next 20 years on the home we're in right now. But thank god, we dont have plans to move from here at all.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

SailingStNick said:


> I have a friend that's the Episcopal priest on Marco. We visited once. From my understanding, it's a snowbird community, so kind of empty in the summer. The population triples to 45k in the winter. Housing is definitely more reasonable (than California for sure, probably than Miami). Upscale, good schools through middle school, then they're bused to Lely High School about thirty minutes off the island. His daughter is doing fine there and has a great group of friends. They're trying to get a charter high school built on Marco.
> 
> Isolated? Maybe, but 45 minutes to Naples. Close to the Everglades, and tons of isolated islands to cruise around.
> 
> ...


Very true about the snowbirds and a great point. It pushed us out of this area many years ago. On our entire block, I think we were one of three full timers that lived in their houses.

I wonder: Is it different in Ft Lauderdale? I really do not know. I never have lived there, only visited. I wonder if Nightowl could comment?

Brian


----------



## Jasper Windvane (Mar 2, 2006)

Funny,, I've never thought of moving anywhere. I do like 
visiting. I may drive to Florida in a week or so, stay for 
a few weeks, but not actually move there. If you are sailing 
a large boat, you are a citizen of the planet earth. I suppose 
we all need a port on the stern though.


----------



## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

Jasper Windvane said:


> Funny,, I've never thought of moving anywhere. I do like
> visiting. I may drive to Florida in a week or so, stay for
> a few weeks, but not actually move there. If you are sailing
> a large boat, you are a citizen of the planet earth. I suppose
> we all need a port on the stern though.


I am torn between a new home in the Caribbean or a Cat most anywhere. So much freedom on a boat but my house is sooooo comfortable. Just have to ignore all the neo helicopters.


----------



## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Very true about the snowbirds and a great point. It pushed us out of this area many years ago. On our entire block, I think we were one of three full timers that lived in their houses.
> 
> I wonder: Is it different in Ft Lauderdale? I really do not know. I never have lived there, only visited. I wonder if Nightowl could comment?
> 
> Brian


It really depends on the neighborhood in Fort Lauderdale. My neighborhood definitely has some snowbird homes, but they're definitely in the minority. I am, however, the youngest homeowner on my street by a good 20 years....no joke (I'm about 30).

Fort Lauderdale is a bit rougher in every way. Houses are older, streets are older...its just a bit more "gritty" than Marco Island. There are definitely "bad" areas in Ft. Lauderdale that you wouldn't want to be in.

Thats the struggle we have...our neighborhood is great (because its on water). But not 2 blocks away are rough streets, drunk day laborers in the parking lot of a gas station and prostitutes.

The best areas of Fort Lauderdale "area" in my opinion would be Victoria Park or even areas like Lighthouse Point. We're talking BIG money there for waterfront....still $1.5MM in most neighborhoods 

Frankly speaking, I'm only in Fort Lauderdale because its SMACK DAB in the middle of my wife and my jobs. If I had my choice of places to live in SE FLorida, it would either be Boynton Beach or Delray Beach up north in Palm Beach County. I love the way things are still a bit undeveloped/beach shack like up there. My second choice would be Miami in the Brickell or North Miami Beach area.


----------



## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

CoastalEddie said:


> The offensive part of Banshi's original missive, to which I was referring above, and to which there has yet to be a public Admin. response:
> 
> From Brian's PM to me, 0828 this morning:
> 
> I guess there's nothing left to say but "_Adios_".


Spoken like someone who hasn't spent any time at all in Miami. I've been in Chinese restaurants where the second language was Spanish. No English at all. 
Eddie, there's not a damn thing racist about it. The truth is more people speak Spanish than English in some places in Florida. Not that there's anything wrong with that. 
You think it's racist to point it out? 
Don't pick such petty battles.


----------



## vegasandre (Jun 20, 2009)

night0wl said:


> It really depends on the neighborhood in Fort Lauderdale. My neighborhood definitely has some snowbird homes, but they're definitely in the minority. I am, however, the youngest homeowner on my street by a good 20 years....no joke (I'm about 30).
> 
> Fort Lauderdale is a bit rougher in every way. Houses are older, streets are older...its just a bit more "gritty" than Marco Island. There are definitely "bad" areas in Ft. Lauderdale that you wouldn't want to be in.
> 
> ...


Thanks Nightowl

Seems like Marco will be too isolated for the family-however we can still check out naples -since we will be renting anyway till prices bottom. As for as FTL , how do you like the las olas, rio vistas areas? We will be checking out Lighthouse pt also and some pts north. thanks


----------



## vegasandre (Jun 20, 2009)

SailingStNick said:


> I have a friend that's the Episcopal priest on Marco. We visited once. From my understanding, it's a snowbird community, so kind of empty in the summer. The population triples to 45k in the winter. Housing is definitely more reasonable (than California for sure, probably than Miami). Upscale, good schools through middle school, then they're bused to Lely High School about thirty minutes off the island. His daughter is doing fine there and has a great group of friends. They're trying to get a charter high school built on Marco.
> 
> Isolated? Maybe, but 45 minutes to Naples. Close to the Everglades, and tons of isolated islands to cruise around.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that Link - its the bomb! Man you can see what kind of town it is basically by looking at the demographics. Interesting the population make up of Naples(Its less diverse than Idaho) as compared to FtL, then you look to a place like weston and its over 50% families .


----------



## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

vegasandre said:


> Thanks Nightowl
> 
> Seems like Marco will be too isolated for the family-however we can still check out naples -since we will be renting anyway till prices bottom. As for as FTL , how do you like the las olas, rio vistas areas? We will be checking out Lighthouse pt also and some pts north. thanks


Yeah - Naples is a bit more "busy" than Marco. In Fort Lauderdale, waterfront on Las Olas, Rio Vista and Lighthouse Point are some of the most expensive properties you can find. Great location, lots of nightlife...but difficult to get to from highways/lots of traffic (for work its tough)

East of I-95, you have to take the large boulevards to get east....Commercial, Sunrise, Oakland Park, Broward (the one you'd use to get to Las Olas), Davie. They all back up during peak rush hour periods. Especially bad in Lighthouse Point because I-95 goes a bit west so the drive off the highway becomes longer. Funny thing is, during non-peak hours...the drive is 5 minutes.

But if you can afford it and dont mind inner city issues like congestion, higher casualty insurance due to petty thefts, etc...those places are great.


----------



## bilgepump (Jan 10, 2010)

JDLG said:


> Texas
> its cheap, great weather (to me anyway) i like the heat, good economy, great coastal and bay sailing though passages to other parts a bit far unless you have the time.


I totally disagree. The heat is oppressive with the humidity. The bay water is just wrong unless you're around Corpus or south of. Off shore is like sailing in a washing machine most of the time. There's wayyy to many people and they cant drive ! On a positive note, the economy is strong. You get alot of house for the money. Good Tex-Mex food. Property taxes and utilities are astronomical. For sailing, Texas is low on my list.


----------



## seafrontiersman (Mar 2, 2009)

knothead said:


> Spoken like someone who hasn't spent any time at all in Miami. I've been in Chinese restaurants where the second language was Spanish. No English at all.
> Eddie, there's not a damn thing racist about it. The truth is more people speak Spanish than English in some places in Florida. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
> You think it's racist to point it out?
> Don't pick such petty battles.


I plan to move to the Miami area as soon as my wife finishes her BS and I know the area pretty will so I'm learning Spanish; if you want to live there, it only makes sense and if you're planning to cruise to Spanish speaking countries, it's just good manners!


----------



## Dirtboy (Jul 13, 2009)

Can't believe there hasn't been more mention of Tampa Bay. There's a reason many major boat builders are based here; it's yachting central. I much perfer the west coast of Florida. The panhandle is pretty and the water is beautiful but they're in a whole different weather pattern and seem to get every storm that enters the Gulf. The east coast is just too hectic for me ................. I kinda like the laid back suncoast.

You can hardly go wrong from Tarpon Springs to Marco Island but there are some great deals on waterfront housing right now. We're on a 400' wide canal, 13' deep, very protected, about 5 miles to Gulf access, no draw bridges .... what could be better?

Don't like ********, just avoid Florida all together. I've actually grown fond of 'em and they can provide lots of entertainment, on and off the water.

I've only visited California a few times. First time was when we rode our motorcycles from Vegas. As we're riding into LA I thought I was getting sick ....... my eyes were burning and throat was feeling raw. I even pulled over on the freeway. My wife, who had lived in Cal. pulled up next to me and explained it was just the air quality and not me!  Monteray, on the other hand, was fantastic, just a tad expensive!!!

DB


----------



## JLBJR (Sep 16, 2006)

I am with you dirtboy, Tampa Bay is the place for me. We moved to South Tampa five years ago from the tri-state area and I never looked back. Take a trip here, spend time in South Tampa (I'm not too big on gated communities in the suburbs) and spend some time in St. Pete. Check out Snell Island and the downtown area. Before we moved we took several trips and stayed in short term corporate condos as a base, rented a car and searched from Tarpon Springs, to Naples. We chose So. Tampa for it's diversity, family owned restaurants (not racist, just don't like chains, sorry) and proximity to Hillsborough and Tampa Bay. When we got here we discovered the best part, the people!


----------



## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

I'm not a huge fan of Tampa. Its kind of caught in the middle. Big city but not the biggest. Smaller town, but too congested to be really small. So one could say its got the worst of each category. Its actually kind of like Fort Lauderdale to that extent...which again, while I live there, I'm not the hugest fan for.

That being said, in a better economy than we have now, Tampa has good, non-service/non-tourist jobs...which Marco/Naples dont really offer much of.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

I just want to point out very qickly that there are some very exclusive and very nice places in Fort Myers. GO look at Gulf Harbor. I suspect that is where our boat will be in a few days. Very, very nice. Reminds me more of Bahia Mar and West Palm. Gated entrance, etc. Tarpon Point is another - but I have not been there since the bottom fell out.

Just some thoughts.

Brian


----------



## Dulcitea (Jan 15, 2010)

I've lived both. Despite its budget woes, California has a better school system. (Disclaimer: I didn't have kids when I lived in Florida. What I've heard of the schools is hearsay.) Of course, as with anywhere, you have to pick your community wisely. I am blessed to live in Coronado. It is a fantastic place to grow up. (Thank God for the Navy. They keep it real.) Another plus is that my college age kids are getting a great (and affordable---more money for the boat!) education in the University of California system. I love the tropical feel of Florida, its relative affordability and proximity to some great sailing destinations, but the kids come first for now, and suprise, suprise: sailing is not my teenagers top priority.


----------



## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

ok kali and fla are similar in many ways despite the fact the natives of each will speak otherwise lol--i reside in kali so far and sailed a lot in fla---neither place has moorage or slippage available for newcomer boaters..is a wait list...LOL..in san diego is 120 yrs for many marinas and 3 yrs for moorings lol...texas might not be as cool as fla or kali but is a new area to consider as proximity to vegas and sailing are both to be considered---usually in san diego in winter there are big winds--this year gusts have been to 90 mph...more coming and better lol.......fla has its storms as well--same kind only add lightning lol.....there is traffic everywhere and there is congestion everywhere---i am trying to figger out where to relocate myself and formosa--lol----teejass or louseyanny / mississippi so far....or just go to caribbean and play in the warmer water......i like that idea.....LOL..very tired of storms and wind at the moment --and in the middle of both !!!! LOL.....only 30 kts wind at present lol....like no where else has storms lol.--are always a factor in figgering out places to stay /hide ...LOL....as far as schools for kids---none of the school systems is worth anything anymore---there are islands and oases in th edesert of dummyoing up of amerika, but , on t hewhole, school systems in kali sukk--my son was essentially denied education in kali school systems lol.....farther away from east coast--worse the schools...go figger...


----------



## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

zeehag said:


> ok kali and fla are similar in many ways despite the fact the natives of each will speak otherwise lol--i reside in kali so far and sailed a lot in fla---neither place has moorage or slippage available for newcomer boaters..is a wait list...LOL..in san diego is 120 yrs..........


There is no wait list for fulltime, transient or live-aboard slips in NE Florida and Jacksonville's Stanton HS has been rated as one of the top five academic high schools in the nation for the last ten years. Reality trumps perception. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew


----------



## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

CaptainForce said:


> There is no wait list for fulltime, transient or live-aboard slips in NE Florida and Jacksonville's Stanton HS has been rated as one of the top five academic high schools in the nation for the last ten years. Reality trumps perception. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew


Jacksonville gets cold in the winter. Not for a long time, but enough to make for several weeks of misery.


----------



## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

CaptainForce said:


> There is no wait list for fulltime, transient or live-aboard slips in NE Florida and Jacksonville's Stanton HS has been rated as one of the top five academic high schools in the nation for the last ten years. Reality trumps perception. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew


I can tell you that the Harborage marina in Saint Pete is at about 50% or less capacity as of yesterday when I walked the docks. This is a pretty nice marina with floating docks and a swimming pool. I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of slips available in the Tampa Bay area.

A couple of years ago, there was a lot of talk about marinas closing and condos being built. Slips were scarce.

I guess there are some positive results from the economic crisis.


----------



## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

night0wl said:


> Jacksonville gets cold in the winter. Not for a long time, but enough to make for several weeks of misery.


I suspect that the boards Canadians suspect that _you might be a wimp_.


----------



## vegasandre (Jun 20, 2009)

Dulcitea said:


> I've lived both. Despite its budget woes, California has a better school system. (Disclaimer: I didn't have kids when I lived in Florida. What I've heard of the schools is hearsay.) Of course, as with anywhere, you have to pick your community wisely. I am blessed to live in Coronado. It is a fantastic place to grow up. (Thank God for the Navy. They keep it real.) Another plus is that my college age kids are getting a great (and affordable---more money for the boat!) education in the University of California system. I love the tropical feel of Florida, its relative affordability and proximity to some great sailing destinations, but the kids come first for now, and suprise, suprise: sailing is not my teenagers top priority.


Yes you are lucky to live in Coronado, we love that place. prices are on crack still. still have 25-30% left to go from this point.

Well just so happens my wife goes over her moms house and her moms friend (who just moved to florida in the spring) is back in vegas for the week. She moved to Jensen beach due to a job transfer for her husband. This lady was bitchin a storm on how she hates it there. (she is also from NJ most of her life) hates the bugs ,rain,humidity blah blah blah(funny we had that in NJ too). Lucky I wasnt there. So my wife got a little off the Fla scene temporarily . But I am not .

I just dont want to end up moving real close to any of these guys below:


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

This is my first post but I feel I know a bit about both. I grew up in Palm Springs and I lived in San Diego for 7years and worked for the San Diego Teachers Association. San Diego schools are great if your in the right neighborhood, which is usually way expensive. (Beach communities, or higher up Interstate 15) Also you have to keep your boat at a marina etc.. and drive to it. I love the weather in CA. There isn't any better and we've lived all over (husband in the navy) We just bought our 4th house we own three others (Norfolk, VA Guam, Bremerton, WA) We bought in a small community on Tampa Bay Apollo Beach. It's a wealthy community that has been hit hard by the collapse of the market. We picked up a 3000 sq ft house on a canal (no dock yet but we have the option) for 300K. The property taxes with the homestead exemption are way less than CA, and no income tax. The school district here is pretty good. A bit north in the Brandon/Valrico suburbs its a bit better. We're about 25 minutes from downtown Tampa. It's slower paced we know all our neighbors and most of them have school aged children. We're far enough out to not be impacted by the city issues but close enough to go to concerts we just saw U2, go to the theater, restaurants, and museums. I walk to the local nature preserve beach every day and we kayak right behind the house in the canals on the weekend. We have a 17 foot trailer sailer we can put in at a ton of boat ramps. There are lots of canals, access to jobs in Tampa, good schools, relatively low taxes don't forget the car registration part way cheaper here. Less congestion, it reminds me of San Diego in the early 90's before the traffic started getting crazy. The big negative here is the weather in the summer. I've lived in Guam so the humidity doesn't bother me. My answer to the hurricane issue. Bite the bullet get good insurance and find a well built house. I love California my family is still there but it's just to crowded and to expensive, I'll take a few negatives to have a slower more affordable lifestyle. Hope this helps.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Natasha Luckett said:


> This is my first post but I feel I know a bit about both. I grew up in Palm Springs and I lived in San Diego for 7years and worked for the San Diego Teachers Association. San Diego schools are great if your in the right neighborhood, which is usually way expensive. (Beach communities, or higher up Interstate 15) Also you have to keep your boat at a marina etc.. and drive to it. I love the weather in CA. There isn't any better and we've lived all over (husband in the navy) We just bought our 4th house we own three others (Norfolk, VA Guam, Bremerton, WA) We bought in a small community on Tampa Bay Apollo Beach. It's a wealthy community that has been hit hard by the collapse of the market. We picked up a 3000 sq ft house on a canal (no dock yet but we have the option) for 300K. The property taxes with the homestead exemption are way less than CA, and no income tax. The school district here is pretty good. A bit north in the Brandon/Valrico suburbs its a bit better. We're about 25 minutes from downtown Tampa. It's slower paced we know all our neighbors and most of them have school aged children. We're far enough out to not be impacted by the city issues but close enough to go to concerts we just saw U2, go to the theater, restaurants, and museums. I walk to the local nature preserve beach every day and we kayak right behind the house in the canals on the weekend. We have a 17 foot trailer sailer we can put in at a ton of boat ramps. There are lots of canals, access to jobs in Tampa, good schools, relatively low taxes don't forget the car registration part way cheaper here. Less congestion, it reminds me of San Diego in the early 90's before the traffic started getting crazy. The big negative here is the weather in the summer. I've lived in Guam so the humidity doesn't bother me. My answer to the hurricane issue. Bite the bullet get good insurance and find a well built house. I love California my family is still there but it's just to crowded and to expensive, I'll take a few negatives to have a slower more affordable lifestyle. Hope this helps.


Great post - esp for a first one.

Brian


----------



## vegasandre (Jun 20, 2009)

Thanks Natasha for that great post! Thanks to everyone here we have definately(me anyway) put the SW florida up to Tampa area on our check out plans. 

as far as this thread goes its:

So Cal -9
Fla-16

If its So Cal we basically have narrowed it down to the San Diego Area and may go as far north as Dana pt. But would prefer Coronado(too expensive ) -1st , Del Mar/ Solano beach area 2nd(pretty expensive) , La Jolla (too expensive) 3rd . Carmel Valley 4th(great schools ) and Carlsbad area 5th -affordable. Pt loma would also be a possibility but schools are a issue(but my boats would be close)

We are going to really check out FLA. I am going in march (also taking a offshore class cat class with BWSS in Ft Lauderdale to Bahamas)

thanks for the input and suggestions . We love to hear what everyone is passionate about, and especially from the ones who have lived in a lot of areas.


----------



## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

I just spent some time in Lighthouse Point tonight....wow. Its still very upscale. My vote is now to hit to go to that area if you can afford it. But it seems like home on water are still $1MM+ there.


----------



## idavis1maccom (Oct 14, 2009)

*Nc*

We have lived in San Diego for the past 10 years. Originally from NJ. Last year we bought a lot on the water in River Dunes, NC. Check out the site at RiverDunes.com. We are moving for precisely the same reasons you listed. the Sailing and fishing are great. Downside is that you are a 2 1/2 hour drive from the big city of Raleigh. We view that as a plus. The environment far outweighs the distance. We are doing everything we can to build our house and move there. Greater than 50 % of the homeowners have boats that are kept at the Harbor in River Dunes.


----------



## chrisnewtimes (Feb 21, 2007)

*Where to Live in Florida, try St Augustine*

Not cheapest place but sensible prices, quaint pretty town, good hurricane history, good schooling and beaches.

Cheers Chris


----------



## dohenyboy (Aug 16, 2006)

If it does not matter where you live, think of La Paz or a couple places in the caribbean
La Paz has fantastic sailing, and as the capital has a lot going for it. You can homeschool or get a tutor for the kids, and only a couple hours from LA. And its cheap.
I used to live on Antigua. If you don't insist on a waterfront home the home prices are really reasonable. Its three hours out of Miami. Also fantastic sailing. 
If you like to stay in the US try St. John. Yes there are lots of expensive homes but older and simpler ones are less.


----------



## vegasandre (Jun 20, 2009)

idavis1maccom said:


> We have lived in San Diego for the past 10 years. Originally from NJ. Last year we bought a lot on the water in River Dunes, NC. Check out the site at RiverDunes.com. We are moving for precisely the same reasons you listed. the Sailing and fishing are great. Downside is that you are a 2 1/2 hour drive from the big city of Raleigh. We view that as a plus. The environment far outweighs the distance. We are doing everything we can to build our house and move there. Greater than 50 % of the homeowners have boats that are kept at the Harbor in River Dunes.


We do actually like the wilmington area in NC. used to vacation in hatteras when we lived in NJ. We were researching this area last year and the new developments seems great except that sales have been way slower than anticipated and in this area(wilmington and wrightsville) many of the subdivisions are having financial issues and there are already many foreclosed vacant lots that are now selling for half of what they sold for a few years ago. River dunes is a little north and I checked out the site last year and just checked it out again. looks very promising. I think water would be similar compared to San diego. Weather not as good but it was always on our list as a choice for areas for us.


----------



## vegasandre (Jun 20, 2009)

dohenyboy said:


> If it does not matter where you live, think of La Paz or a couple places in the caribbean
> La Paz has fantastic sailing, and as the capital has a lot going for it. You can homeschool or get a tutor for the kids, and only a couple hours from LA. And its cheap.
> I used to live on Antigua. If you don't insist on a waterfront home the home prices are really reasonable. Its three hours out of Miami. Also fantastic sailing.
> If you like to stay in the US try St. John. Yes there are lots of expensive homes but older and simpler ones are less.


I love St Johns. this actually would top (on my list) Fla and Cali. But I have to be practical. Have three kids. 2 play baseball a ton. St John is expensive-very expensive . Not too sure of schools there either I am sure would have to be private. Think most are on St Thomas. 
Antigua - Like the Island , its a little rougher than the Virgins which is good in some aspects but not so in others. 
LaPAz-never been there but It looks interesting -Not sure of the schooling either. sure it would have to be private and tutors etc. We like the Cabo area(at least I do for fishing). But I think we tossed out Mexico and costa rica or anything EXPAT until kids are out of school.


----------



## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

vegasandre said:


> Virgins which is good in some aspects but not so in others.


Scatch Ca off your list, thar be no virgins here


----------



## jaasun71 (May 15, 2009)

*Florida*

So many nice places to live in Florida, its hard to choose. If you want a cheap place to live with boat parking behind your house, try Palm Coast. Not many options for work but its a nice quiet community just south of Saint Augustine. New Smyrna Beach , Jupiter , Stuart , Ft. Pierce , and Palm Beach County are are very nice places also.


----------



## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

Split the difference and move to the Texas coastal area. No state income tax and lower cost of living that either FL or CA. You have an occassional hurricane, but fewer than FL and the Gulf is great sailing.


----------



## Maverick1958 (Nov 30, 2009)

johnshasteen said:


> Split the difference and move to the Texas coastal area. No state income tax and lower cost of living that either FL or CA. You have an occassional hurricane, but fewer than FL and the Gulf is great sailing.


California let me see: Every natural disaster know to man except hurricanes. The state is broke, the cost of living out of range, oh and TAXES out the wazoo!

Florida: Hurricanes, snow birds, and can't work a voting machines.

TEXAS: GOD's country!!!


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Hmmm, I have sailed those waters. So let me ask you fellows in Sea Lake: Where you spending your time anchored? How are the views from the power plant?

HEHE! This is just a joke. Texas is home, always will be. But comparing the grey/brown waters of Texas with no close anchorages or deserted islands and national parks (assuming no oil spill which I have done down on Padre... YUCK!) to the crystal blue or aqua green waters of Florida (or deep blue of California) and coral reefs (and shall I tell you that I was cold this morning at 76 degrees), is quite simply apple to oranges. Corpus and south is ok. Padre is ok. But look:

Tortugas. Huge living, abundant coral reefs and crystal clear water over 25-35' visibility.










Avalon, Catalina Island. Cold water, but pretty.










Sorry for the pic quality. If you don't like them, I can go out today and shoot some more... while I am sitting in shorts and a tank top, after my swim....

Brian


----------



## vegasandre (Jun 20, 2009)

*Dont Mess with Texas*

As far as texas is concerned- yes its has many economic benefits and such -but It is not on our short list
(sorry Texas dudes)
Of course there is not any perfect place and never will be. There is always some kind of trade off. 
that perfect Utopia is but a fantasy -especially when there are 5 people in one family involved(each with different likes and dislikes)

But of course the most important issue is being happy.

I keep telling everyone do not move because you think it will make you happier-that is a recipe for disaster. 
You must be happy with yourself and your life before you make any drastic changes. And if you follow that rule -the chances for increased success go up drastically. So that is my mantra and we are sticking to it.

Anyway we are going out to dinner tommorow night with a Couple who lgrew up in the Juno Beach area in FLA , lived in Vegas for ten years also and are moving back. We are going to get the lowdown of that area.


----------



## Yado (Jan 3, 2004)

*Puerto Rico anyone?*

I sailed into St. Johns recently and met a teacher who told me the schools were not the best, though he himself was optimistic that he could change things. Kids took the ferry to St. Thomas daily for public school. 
I've sailed from Newport to Grenada and points in between, Bermuda, Bahamas, etc., and not too long ago sailed from St. Petersburg, Florida, through the Keys to the Chesapeake.
I never thought I'd say this, but Florida could be terrific place to sail from as would be the coast of North Carolina. The choice depends on how you want to occupy your time when you're not sailing. 
Kids are adaptable (though my son never took to sailing) and I'm glad I chose to live in a place that provided a lot of choices for him to grow as well as for my wife and I. Destination vacation spots that lead to permanent residency often turn into "ports of broken dreams". I read this on sailnet a long time ago so it's not original.
Puerto Rico Anyone? I know nothing about it except that I've been in the airport at least 10 times. It's a larger island and a US territory and I can only assume that there is something positive about the place. Could be wrong but I plan on visiting soon the check out the sailing scene.
I just returned from checking out the Seattle area and 9 months of rain and fog does not seem appealing and the waterways I saw were filled with huge logs. I'm going to give it a second look in the summer.


----------



## DNile (Jan 31, 2010)

Ahoy Vegasandre,
I'm new to this forum and actually just registered a few moments ago!
i read some of the posts in this thread and wanted to share my opinion about the location where i am.
I currently live in Destin, FL. it's in the panhandle, in the middle between panama city and pensacola. i've moved up here 3 yrs ago from miami. i actually enjoyed living in miami while i was single, it's a very fun place, lots of diversity and just a fast paced place. i was not sailing at that time, but i did think it was a good place to own a boat. retrospectively, miami is well located for both gunkholing or blue water cruising. you can sail to the islands from there, key west or eastward towards the bahamas and beyond.
as far as raising a family with kids, i'm not sure miami is the best environment.
destin is a much smaller town, it's one of the best fishing spots in the gulf coast. i don't do much fishing myself, but i did enjoy it the few times i've been out with friends...the red snappers and the groupers were huge, i saw some of the biggest fish i've ever seen live!!!
as far as sailing, i think it's a decent home port. i own a small 19' shoal draft weekender and i think the area is perfect for small cruises. i also think there are a lot of places you can go to with a much bigger sailboat as well, whether it's hugging the coast or sailing accross the gulf to central/south america or the carribeans.
as far as whether is concerned, i know people freak out when they hear about hurricanes, i did too when i first moved to florida!, but you do get plenty of warning when one is coming your way...you don't get that type of warning before an earthquake! i personally lived in a country prone to earthquakes and i feel hurricanes are a lesser threat even though they might be more common.
the weather in the fl panhandle is not as tropical as in south florida, so it's not as humid, there are bugs, but not as bad as in the keys. spring and fall are just awesome, summer is hot and winter is generally mild. housing prices have come down a great deal and property taxes are lower than south florida.

cheers,


----------



## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

Nice post DNile.

I suddenly find myself in the market for investment homes in Florida. Though many parts of Florida have been devastated by the Great Recession, I feel that the resulting opportunities are very, very good.

Right now...Cape Coral and area looks alright.


----------



## smillinjack (Aug 13, 2009)

*Florida Property*

Yes I live in north Florida and My property has lost 40% of it,s value. By the time Oblamo is through with us it will only be worth 40% of it's value. It is a market down here where anybody with cash to spend will have lots of choices.But you have to ask yourself, Has it bottomed out yet. But then again why not have fun while you still can. SEE YA.


----------



## nissantwa (Sep 15, 2009)

*So. Cal or Florida*

Pay attention for I am the voice of experience. Ahem hmnn... 7 years in Palm Beach, 15 years in San Diego. Real Estate Prices, Florida. Fishing, Florida. (I'm being brief) Hurricanes vs. Earthquakes, take California. No state income tax in Fl. but real estate taxes are a bit more than CA. & if you have a bank loan, the required hurricane insurance is REAL expensive. Sailing, now there's the rub. Scandalous to say but I don't think there's any place to sail in California. I mean, the islands, such as they are, Mexico but no fun bashing back and 1,000 day sails in and out of the harbor. That's it. In East coast Florida, the Bahamas beckon & points south are only a day apart. (until you leave the Exumas for that stretch to Dominicana & the crossing to Puerto Rico) Then 30 miles or less per leg for weeks, always reach port in time for your martini. (or more politically correct diet beverage) And they're not just islands, they're countries, some more enticing than others but always an adventure. Ca. West coast harbor winds usually don't pipe up until 10 am and then fizzle around 5 pm. Florida much the same until you're off into the trades, then you can crack on all sail into the judgement day. Intercoastal is nice for power boats and dinghies when the Ocean has foul weather.i Head North on that same channel and you can fetch Chesapeake Bay. Now that I've plugged Florida, I must say If I'd my druthers, and I don't, lottery winnings would take me to San Diego because I could afford it. But for the bargain shopper who needs seagulls close by, Florida's Atlantic coast will do.


----------



## Funsail (Feb 4, 2010)

We spend six years sailing Cal and Mexico, Loved every second of it. Ran out of new places to go.
We are trying East next, Bugs be damned.
Let you know how it goes.


----------



## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

sailing in east gulf isnt bad--i like it--wanna relocate to there--just have to get my boat thru a canal....there are bugs, but that is why god made spray and screeens--heavy on the screens.lol.....persistant little sukkers.....but soo much sooo lcose--is incredible and fun...water is actually warm, also---i am in!!!!


----------



## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

Clearly Florida is the big winner for sailors. But Florida is not a small state. There are many cities on the coast. Which may beg the next question:

What cities currently offer the most attractive investments in property?

My vote would be the Cape Coral area. But thats just me. A typical home went from 150,000 to 300,000. Now it is available for about 70,000 or so. Perhaps the bottom has not been reached. The upside looks attractive however.


----------



## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

adamsaquatics said:


> Clearly Florida is the big winner for sailors. But Florida is not a small state. There are many cities on the coast. Which may beg the next question:
> 
> What cities currently offer the most attractive investments in property?
> 
> My vote would be the Coral Gables area. But thats just me. A typical home went from 150,000 to 300,000. Now it is available for about 70,000 or so. Perhaps the bottom has not been reached. The upside looks attractive however.


Coral Gables...in Miami for $70k? Are you nuts?  On the water, homes that area of Miami start with multiple millions and go up from there, even after the great recession.

Do you mean Cape Coral on the west coast of FL? Even then, I'd be hard pressed to imagine waterfront homes for $70k. Probably $300k needing work to $500k all done up....with direct waterfront access on a sheltered canal.

But, if you're seeing $70k for waterfront in Coral Gables...buy two!!!


----------



## smillinjack (Aug 13, 2009)

*Waterfront property*

I don't think that you can buy any waterfront property in Florida for $70.000 . Maybe a lot that needs work. Or you may find lake front property for that.Costa Rica maybe.


----------



## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

night0wl said:


> Coral Gables...in Miami for $70k? Are you nuts?  On the water, homes that area of Miami start with multiple millions and go up from there, even after the great recession.
> 
> Do you mean Cape Coral on the west coast of FL? Even then, I'd be hard pressed to imagine waterfront homes for $70k. Probably $300k needing work to $500k all done up....with direct waterfront access on a sheltered canal.
> 
> But, if you're seeing $70k for waterfront in Coral Gables...buy two!!!


Yes....I meant Cape Coral.

Of all the things I miss, I miss my mind the most.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

adamsaquatics said:


> Yes....I meant Cape Coral.
> 
> Of all the things I miss, I miss my mind the most.


You can get canal front stuff in the cape relatively cheap. However.... be aware that you are very restrictged by draft and height. ALl the bridges in the cape are 55's. SO if you have a stick over 55, forget it. The main canal feeding the cape east of cattle point has power lines going across at 55. Also, as you get very far in the canals, you will find the water starts getting shallow. It is great for motor boats, bad for sailboats.

I owned a house unrestricted, deep water in the cape (just off ICW) - but it is only a small area of the cape where you can do this. Homes are more expensive too (duh). If anyone generally has an interst in knowing more about it, just pm me.

Brian


----------



## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

Cruisingdad said:


> You can get canal front stuff in the cape relatively cheap. However.... be aware that you are very restrictged by draft and height. ALl the bridges in the cape are 55's. SO if you have a stick over 55, forget it. The main canal feeding the cape east of cattle point has power lines going across at 55. Also, as you get very far in the canals, you will find the water starts getting shallow. It is great for motor boats, bad for sailboats.
> 
> I owned a house unrestricted, deep water in the cape (just off ICW) - but it is only a small area of the cape where you can do this. Homes are more expensive too (duh). If anyone generally has an interst in knowing more about it, just pm me.
> 
> Brian


I'm heading down to Fort Myers/Cape Coral in a couple weeks. I want to get a home before the 8,000 tax write-off goes bye-bye. My goal is to buy an affordable investment home every 3-4 months for a year. Then maybe move there full time. Or be a snowbird.

I have to believe the real estate will eventually rebound....at least partially.

The present affordability of homes in the Fort Myers area is noteworthy.

I think there will be some Spring Break activity which is OK. I can't look at homes 24/7 and have always enjoyed a curvy bikini. I think Naples and Miami attract more Spring Breakers though.

I'm looking at a home where a corner of the large back yard is next to a canal. Wonder if a person could back a boat in.


----------



## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

Just a word of caution from someone who's family has now been through 2 separate real estate downturns. What goes down...may never come up.

My parents bought a small, modest home in Houston in the early 1980s. They paid $75,000. That area went through the oil bust in the late 80s. Economic recession/depression in the early 90s. The home is now is now listed on Zillow as worth $98,000.

My father bought the home cash, putting every cent he had saved into that home. If he had put that cash into an investment that matched inflation (govt tips, bonds, etc)...he'd have had $168,409.59 right now. If he had put it in the stock market or other balanced portfolio...who knows.

Bubbles rarely *EVER* get back to peak periods.

My advice to you would be to rent. Buy if you think of it as home, not an investment. 2005 prices for homes are at least 10-15 years away IMHO...and inflation adjusted, NEVER going to recover.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

night0wl said:


> Just a word of caution from someone who's family has now been through 2 separate real estate downturns. What goes down...may never come up.
> 
> My parents bought a small, modest home in Houston in the early 1980s. They paid $75,000. That area went through the oil bust in the late 80s. Economic recession/depression in the early 90s. The home is now is now listed on Zillow as worth $98,000.
> 
> ...


Agreed, unless there is a large shift in teh economy down here. There is no/verry little industry and certainly not enough to support many of the prices of these homes. THat was always my argument when people compared it to California and other water-areas with high real estate. Many of those areas have the jobs to support that growth. Down here in SW Florida, it is mostly second homes or snow bird homes.

Also, regarding the canals, yes, you can have your boat behind it, but be aware that there are bridge and power line restrictions to consider. The Cape bridge is 55' and the power lines for most of the cape coming in to bimini are 55. There are homes without those restrictions (I owned one), but you have to know where to look. Many of those homes with canals are not good for anything but a flats boat, and that can be pushing it sometimes in a low-low.

I personally think that the prices here could stand to fall some more. The compensations here are at or below Texas compensations and the houses are much more expensive. Plus, there are soooo many repos and houses sitting ready to go repo that any chance of getting rid of your purchase would be difficult. I think the best place to invest for a 'investment property' would be more of the Naples and Marco area where it is a tighter (and smaller) community and the typical resident is not affected by the economy. In other words, they are rich. Of course, you are going to have to write a bigger check for the property. I personally would buy in the Cape again, but only for a house I planned on living in and keeping. Many people have done that to have a place to put their boat as slippage down here is expensive and not a lot of it.

Brian

PS You also better check your insurance and taxes before investing in the properties here. That can easily exceed 10k year just for that.


----------



## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

Alright, that is a fair warning to not get too carried away.

Are there much Spring Break activities in the area?


----------



## joeleitz (Mar 1, 2010)

California is on a major fault line though, so you could argue that there is the stress of a possible seismic event happening. Also, the fact that California is broke should be a big consideration. Recently, things seem to be going from bad to worse for California. Who knows if they can ever get the state budget under control.

-------------------
[EDIT]



bilgepump said:


> Florida is beautifull. I don't care for the stress associated with the coming of hurricanes. That leaves California as the logical choice for me.


----------

