# Liveaboards: What do you miss?.



## sailforlife (Sep 14, 2016)

For all you liveaboard folks what do you miss about land life if you miss it and what do you hate or dislike about living aboard?

:ship-captain::ship-captain::cut_out_animated_em:2 boat::captain:


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

*Re: For all you LIVEABOARD folks....*



sailforlife said:


> For all you liveaboard folks what do you miss about land life if you miss it and what do you hate or dislike about living aboard?
> 
> :ship-captain::ship-captain::cut_out_animated_em:2 boat::captain:


Honestly ...... Nothing and .... Nothing.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

*Re: For all you LIVEABOARD folks....*

Food, especially prepared meals, delivery. There are just some nights when it would be great to get some Thai, Chinese or a pizza delivered.


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## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

*Re: For all you LIVEABOARD folks....*

I miss the space. My house was 1200 ft3, which is small compared to most homes ... but it's a huge amount of space compared to my Tartan 37. It's especially relevant right now since most of my time is taken up doing boat projects, and the tools and parts spread all over the boat means there's almost no room for me.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: For all you LIVEABOARD folks....*



capta said:


> Food, especially prepared meals, delivery. There are just some nights when it would be great to get some Thai, Chinese or a pizza delivered.


Pizza Pi boat, anchored in Christmas Cove on Little St James Island, USVI. Delivery is free, in the anchorage, if you order three pies! Although, taking one's own dinghy over to see the operation is a must. Freaking expensive, tho.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: For all you LIVEABOARD folks....*

I don't liveaboard full time, but we spend in the order of 120 nights aboard per year. More in better years.

We bought our current boat to be a second home and she's outfit as such. I have an ice maker aboard, but not at home! Our memory foam mattress aboard is hands down more comfortable (and bigger) than the one at home. We have a line of family and friends at the door to come visit on the boat. Not so much at home.

Probably the only thing I find better at home is garbage disposal, especially while cruising.

I will say, I've occasionally gone to work from the boat, which is a major buzz kill. I'd rather dress for work at home.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

*Re: For all you LIVEABOARD folks....*

No longer living aboard... but did for 4 years in Caribe, NE, and Canaries.... back in the mid 90s.

When you live aboard your immediate world shrinks to the confines of your boat. Not bad but usually much smaller than your home on dirt. You learn that you need less / fewer things... clothes and so on. It also means that to get anywhere you use your boat and where you can go is limited to harbors and place along the shore... unless you take some sort of public transport which is fairly limited when you are off the beaten path. You have less access to all things retail... from hardware to food and clothing. You entertainment... such as culture is also limited... concerts, museums, movies, performances... variety in restaurants, cafes and so forth. Of course your access to the "country side" is limited as well.

Life aboard is more "essential" basic and for the most part less cushy.

I won't go into the upside of living aboard... but the above are the sort of things I missed when I left the NYC metro area to live aboard and cruise.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

*Re: For all you LIVEABOARD folks....*

Like Minnewaska I live on board for about five or six months. Only negative thing is toward the end of the season when the sun starts setting early and evening starts to get cold. When I start to need a wear a wool Watch Cap I start thinking about lighting the fire place at home. Though taking a break over the winter gets the sailing desire going come the spring so it's all good.


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## chicory83 (Dec 21, 2009)

*Re: For all you LIVEABOARD folks....*

The only things I really miss are having a decent size cooking space and laundry at home. Some aspects of life just take a little longer, but you can minimize a lot of that with careful planning so you don't walk back and forth between the boat and shore more than necessary. If I had a different setup, not showering at home would probably get old after a while too. I never shower on board for environmental reasons, but I usually shower in the gym on the way to work or at work because it allows me to clean up after biking to work or gets me off the freeway before traffic gets too bad if I am driving. I also have storage space for clothes and food at work which reduces storage needs on the boat. How much time you spend at home will probably make a difference to how you feel about living aboard as will whether you have access to other living spaces during the day. I am at work for 12 hours most days and go out of town climbing on most weekends if I am not sailing, so I don't spend a huge amount of time at home. There is one other thing that I do miss ... paying exorbitant rent!


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

*Re: For all you LIVEABOARD folks....*

We live aboard for 6 months in Carribbean, pass through USA visiting kids, then to Newfoundland for the summer.

I can't say there is much if anything if land life I miss living on the boat. We spend a few nights at our hunting cabin, and I miss the times knocking about the woods. But the cabin is more "rustic" than the boat, so I'm not missing amenities. I can miss access to supplies, but St Martin is pretty good for that.

If anything I sometimes miss a decent internet connection because I need to communicate and stay in touch. And a decent steak, about twice a year. That's about it. But I have those same issues in Newfoundland.


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

*Re: For all you LIVEABOARD folks....*

I'm sure that the info being provided here is useful to the OP but he must realize that the sample group is very lopsided. Those who did not like living on a boat so much and have moved on are not SN members.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Thread title change.

Please make thread titles specific.
They look less like Spam and Clickbait.

:grin


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

sailforlife said:


> For all you liveaboard folks what do you miss about land life if you miss it and what do you hate or dislike about living aboard?
> 
> :ship-captain::ship-captain::cut_out_animated_em:2 boat::captain:


I miss the convenience of having a car and all the water/power I want, and that poop just disappears down a hole never to be a concern again.

I hate getting rocked by aholes driving fast through the mooring, anchor field, next to the marina. And not having the above stuff.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I miss playing live poker at a casino.

I miss unlimited water at the turn of a tap. Many Eastern Caribbean islands have outstripped their natural water supply.

Other than that nothing I can think of.

The pluses are just manifold.

Best of all is being able to go for a swim round the boat in the morning all year round.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

*Re: For all you LIVEABOARD folks....*



Minnewaska said:


> Probably the only thing I find better at home is garbage disposal, especially while cruising.


That is called a "shark" where we cruise.

Mark


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I lived aboard and cruised full time for about 4 years. There was very little not to like. I cruised the Great Lakes and Gulf of St Lawrence areas. When winter came, I got a slip and stayed aboard in the slip. I went with full service slips; mobile pump out, garbage disposal, wifi, satellite tv, laundry facilities, walking distance to restaurants. Easy, it was just like living in a down town condo. There was nothing to miss.

During the warmer months I was kind of a working cruiser- self employed: boat deliveries, marine consulting, marine emergency and rescue training, freelance skipper. However, for my business to work I had to be certain places at certain times, which was easy, drive or take the boat (free hotel). When I didn't have to be somewhere (especially in the autumn), I would go explore where ever it was I wanted to explore. 

I rarely anchored out, its not my cup of tea, I paid for marina slips, most places in the great lakes region offer weekly, monthly or seasonal rates, so stay as long as you like, its usually a better deal to stay at least a week (which naturally worked better for work too). I didn't see any sense in saving a few bucks by anchoring out, after all, I wasn't paying a mortgage or rent ashore, so why not? I would have some kind of home base for the season (a seasonal marina slip) where I kept my truck and motorcycle, if I was going to be somewhere different for a few weeks or whatever and I wanted my truck, I would take the train to get it. Even paying for a couple of slips at a time (home base and wherever I happened to be visiting) was still cheaper than paying a mortgage.

My boat was comfortable, interior finished mostly in tropical hardwood, bronze and brass. The boat had two cabins one with a double, one with a queen, both with opening hatches for ventiallation and over 6 feet of head room in each. A deep freeze and she had a proper stand up work shop with a bench vice.

The only reason we stopped (it was me, my son and my wife) was I was offered a job inland away from the water. So I sold the boat and discovered the wonderful world of trailer sailing, which is pretty awesome too.

I would say there was nothing I didn't like, I would do it again in a heart beat, however, I can't see myself wanting to live at anchor. Lots of people do though.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Being at anchor is possibly the thing i most like in this lifestyle.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

What's not to like?????

It's living on a great beach having sun dowers and sun uppers all day long, with nice calm sailing trips with beautiful women wearing "pretty" nothing clothes in between. The roughest part of the life is deciding whether to have that margarita frozen or on the rocks (using only top shelf tequila either way of course).

AND it's almost FREE at less than $500/mo for the high rollers!

Trust me on this !! :Luxury::yacht:


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I looked at my 4 yrs living aboard in tropical climates as a sabbatical from the urban life of NYC...work, clients, museums, friends, parties, performances, incredible restaurants from allover the world... languages heard from every corner of the globe, sporting events and of course local cruising, trips to the beach and the mountains and highways, traffic and cold rainy winters. I wrote this poem while out there.

Islands

I’m searching for an island 
It's just right for me
A place so special
It’s just got to be

Warm waters lapping
Calm peaceful shores
Quaint little villages
And so very much more

The island has mountain peaks 
With clouds about the top
It rains each day an hour
But then must simply stop

The rains fill the ponds,
Rivers and the lakes
You only see sailboats
Ne’er a power boat wake

This island has meadows 
Grasses of delicious green
Flowers abound in multitudes 
On the hills and by the streams

Palm lined sandy beaches 
and rocky cliffs too
Everything imaginable 
All surrounded by endless blue

I’ll set down my anchor 
Watch the sun arise
Each day will be different 
Hold some new surprise

Local folks with so much charm
A society that seems fair
A dollar's still a dollar 
But no one seems to care

I’ll befriend all the sailors
Who come and drop their hook
The good ones with flair
Have also come to look

I’ll forget the winter season
The cold and freezing rains
And not miss the deserts
nor even the endless plains

The great cities will be like
far distant dreams
Full of crowds, noise and traffic 
In never ending streams

Each island that I’ve sailed to
Meets just part of my need
I'm still searching and exploring
Not missing a good lead

But when to weigh anchor?
And when to make way?
I struggle with this question
Each and every day

The next island beckons
And summons me “sail on”
With promises of new delights
To build a life upon

Not always have I lived 
This searching life at sea
Yet there is something about sailing 
That’s forever part of me

9/26/94


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

RegisteredUser said:


> Being at anchor is possibly the thing i most like in this lifestyle.


It does bring up an interesting point for the OP to consider. I really dont like being at anchor, I never have, and for that reason cruising the Carribean has never held much appeal to me. I like docks and beaching/drying out. The dock doesn't have to be at a marina, it can be a lock wall, an old wharf or just a steep shoreline with trees to tie up at, just as long as I dont have to spend the night at anchor.

It's just personal preference. I can't explain it. I would rather keep sailing through the night than anchor somewhere.

So definitely, spend some time at anchor before selling the house lol.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Arcb said:


> It does bring up an interesting point for the OP to consider. I really dont like being at anchor, I never have, and for that reason cruising the Carribean has never held much appeal to me. I like docks and beaching/drying out. The dock doesn't have to be at a marina, it can be a lock wall, an old wharf or just a steep shoreline with trees to tie up at, just as long as I dont have to spend the night at anchor.
> 
> It's just personal preference. I can't explain it. I would rather keep sailing through the night than anchor somewhere.
> 
> So definitely, spend some time at anchor before selling the house lol.


I think this is not a common... but interesting approach. I happen to be the complete opposite. I have lived in apartments since I left for college. I like to be apart, and so marinas and docks remind me of urban living... anchoring or staying on a mooring reminds me of camping out in the woods. Condos and time shares have no appeal for me for the same reason. On the other hand in water winter storage provides me easier access to work on the interior projects of the boat.


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## chicory83 (Dec 21, 2009)

I think that one of the best things about living aboard is the neighbors. Since moving to California I lived in San Francisco, Marin and the Berkeley Hills before moving aboard. Knew few of my neighbors, and can't remember going for a beer with any of them. At the marina, the people are friendly, helpful, glad to stop and chat and I have shared a beer with quite a few of them. Having waterfront property with a view of San Francisco out of my cockpit doesn't suck either.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

I miss the two days it took to cut the lawn on 10 acres. I miss the 10 hours it took to get the snow blower hooked up to the tractor every fall. I miss the many hours spent dealing with the building inspectors and suing the municipality. I miss the many trips to the town dump ..... NOT LOL.

We sold the house "as is" furniture, paintings on the walls, four cars and three motorcyles. What a great sense of freedom as I looked in the rearview mirror on the way to the boat. Don't do the "storage" thing. Get rid of all that meaningless crap and go live the life you want.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Arcb said:


> It does bring up an interesting point for the OP to consider. I really dont like being at anchor......


I think you may have spent too much time driving those big commercial stinkpots. 

Your preference reminds me of a friend, with a 50 ft stinkpot, who I don't think has ever had the anchor off his bow. His wife would not go at all. We have a mutual friend on Marthas Vineyard and all decided, with short notice, to meet up over the summer. It was way too late to get a mooring reserved, let alone a slip. Didn't matter to us, there is a huge anchorage with excellent holding. When you arrive, you can often get a last min mooring cancellation, but we'd drop the hook otherwise. Not him, no way. He made calls for a week, offering to pay whatever it took. There aren't many slips in Edgartown to begin with. Sure enough, something in the order of a grand a night got him buried deep behind a few other boats, in an awful spot. Still, his wife was happy to be tied to shore. That's his price of admission, I guess. I just can't imagine.

I know you're quite a bit more adventurous than they are.

On the other hand, we'll have my Father along for about a week this summer. He's got quite a few miles on him now, so I do reserve a slip or two along the way, because it so much easier for him. Admittedly, it's easier for me too, when we have guests for any length of time and the anchorage has no launch service. A big family and a single car is tough.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Minnewaska said:


> I think you may have spent too much time driving those big commercial stinkpots.


Absolutely, I like to get where I am going, and when I am at anchor, I feel like I am only part way there 

There is an old French Canadian legend, the Chasse Gallerie.

Short version is there are a group of Coureurs de bois (Voyageurs) who were at an over night camp on a river returning home with a load of furs on New Years eve. However, they didnt want to be partying at a camp in the woods amongst themselves, they wanted to be at the main event, the big party in Montreal with music and girls. So rather than stay put, they made a pact with the devil to give them the strength to paddle through the night sky for 100 leagues so they could make it to port for the party.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

Counter space and a good oven.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I've been reading and thinking about how to respond. I can't think of anything I "miss," as in lament not having. Living in a small self-sufficient space does make one _appreciate_ the luxuries of infinite water, power, easy waste management, and large storage/counter spaces. But I can't say I lament not having these things.

In fact, I like the limitations of living this way forces on me. It demands that I pay attention to what it takes to live. Most urbanites have no clue what it takes to sustain their lives, or their lifestyles. I believe this is real reason we're in such environmental dire straights - people have no idea what our modern urban lives cost in the way of planetary resources.

But anywhooo&#8230; I don't really miss anything. And I most especially love being at anchor. I really dislike living at the dock. The boat doesn't feel right tied to a dock. I've spent months at a time without ever stepping foot on land - love it!


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

Mike
You have raised the 'footprint' issue in many threads in the past; and while I don't disagree per se it does raise a question that I have trouble answering. To me, sustainable living is a lifestyle that is good for the planet if everybody did it. If everybody lived on 30 or 40 foot fibreglass boats would it be a good thing? I don't know but I do have my doubts.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

ScottUK said:


> Counter space and a good oven.


A dishwasher and a hot [member of the opposite binary] to push the button.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

paulinnanaimo said:


> Mike
> You have raised the 'footprint' issue in many threads in the past; and while I don't disagree per se it does raise a question that I have trouble answering. To me, sustainable living is a lifestyle that is good for the planet if everybody did it. If everybody lived on 30 or 40 foot fibreglass boats would it be a good thing? I don't know but I do have my doubts.


I have mention it. I can't recall the last time I brought it up here, but I certainly do believe it is a way to look at the environmental issues within our control (for those of us who live in developed countries).

My perspective is not that everyone should live on a smallish sailboat. But I do think we should all live smaller - use less. Living in a small space forces that kind of efficiency. A larger space requires more resources to sustain, and encourages additional consumption.

There are lots of ways of living with less. A smallish sailboat is just one option. And obviously if everyone did it, we'd create other problems, so I don't think it's a solution for everyone.


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## chicory83 (Dec 21, 2009)

paulinnanaimo said:


> Mike
> You have raised the 'footprint' issue in many threads in the past; and while I don't disagree per se it does raise a question that I have trouble answering. To me, sustainable living is a lifestyle that is good for the planet if everybody did it. If everybody lived on 30 or 40 foot fibreglass boats would it be a good thing? I don't know but I do have my doubts.


The point you raise is a good one, but there is another aspect to the issue of sustainability. Consider the same argument applied to energy resources. Is an energy resource only sustainable if everyone can power their lives from it? The answer is clearly no. If we are to replace our current carbon based economy with one based on renewable energy resources we will have to rely on a wide variety of sources including wind, solar, geothermal, tidal, biofuels etc. There is no one size fits all approach to living with a low carbon footprint. Just because one low carbon lifestyle won't work for everyone doesn't mean that it isn't worth doing. Like Mike, I often stress how low my carbon footprint has become from living aboard. I think that showing people that living a low carbon lifestyle can be enjoyable if you can find a way that works for you can get people thinking about what low carbon lifestyle they might be happy to live with.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Long, long hot showers with body sprays.

Fly fishing walking up a,steam.

Driving the car or cruising on the bike.

Watching baseball or football in the stadium.

Not being the minority person everywhere I go.

Striper fishing off the beach.

Snow falling.

Autumn.

Being close to my kids 

A round of golf without Bermuda grass.

Not constantly fixing things.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

This low footprint thing should realize it’s not as low as one may think.
I have a new house. HVAC is geothermal. Electric is solar. I currently currently cruise the only new boat I ever had. Electricity is solar and wind. My town has multiple wind turbines.
Wind moves air from up high and brings it down and does the reverse. It causes the downwind land to be hotter. Solar requires extensive mining. Boats are Glass Reinforced PLASTIC and therefore a petroleum product as is my dinghy, sails and running rigging. Even today’s “wooden “ boats are held together with petroleum products and painted with the same. 
My friends boats were baked at a huge expenditure of energy. And of course huge energy is required to mine, smelt and weld a metal boat. Now with super efficient motor boats like the artnautica motor boats need not be worse than us rag baggers.
Sure I’m not live on a wedding cake mega yacht but I don’t think I’m that pure. 
Impact will come from reinventing the grid and transportation. I did what I did because it improves my quality of life. Not due to carbon footprint. Living without the noise, stink, and frequent maintenance of piston engines is just harmonious and nice. Not paying utilities is a blessing as is not being dependent on the grid. That’s reason enough. Especially now when when averaged over the years it’s not an additional expense.


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## chicory83 (Dec 21, 2009)

outbound said:


> This low footprint thing should realize it's not as low as one may think.
> I have a new house. HVAC is geothermal. Electric is solar. I currently currently cruise the only new boat I ever had. Electricity is solar and wind. My town has multiple wind turbines.
> Wind moves air from up high and brings it down and does the reverse. It causes the downwind land to be hotter. Solar requires extensive mining. Boats are Glass Reinforced PLASTIC and therefore a petroleum product as is my dinghy, sails and running rigging. Even today's "wooden " boats are held together with petroleum products and painted with the same.
> My friends boats were baked at a huge expenditure of energy. And of course huge energy is required to mine, smelt and weld a metal boat. Now with super efficient motor boats like the artnautica motor boats need not be worse than us rag baggers.
> ...


I have had a small army of students doing life cycle analyses of a wide variety of emerging energy technologies for the last 15 years, so I do understand both the environmental and social impacts of these technologies. Neodymium mining for wind turbine magnets has caused significant pollution and health issues in the area around Bautou China. Mining for Cobalt for Lithium Ion Batteries in the Kolowezi region of Congo has caused birth defects and heavy metal poisoning for the local population, building the Ivanpah Concentrated Solar Plant near Las Vegas damaged environment for endangered desert tortoises, the Lightning Dock Geothermal plant in the Animas Valley of New Mexico is putting the local groundwater supply at risk. It should come as no surprise that there is no such thing as a free lunch or a clean energy technology. The oil industry has done its share of damage to the environment too. Go ask the residents of the Niger Delta who can't feed their families because oil spills have killed off all the fish. There are coal miners around the world suffering from silicosis and ground water that has been contaminated by fracking fluid from oil and natural gas drilling.

A very clear eyed cost benefit analysis is needed to balance the environmental costs of these new energy technologies against the significant impact of fossil fuel production and use and the anthropomorphic climate change and ocean acidification from the resulting CO2 emissions. If you spend some time with the IPCC reports published over the past few years, it becomes fairly clear that while there are significant environmental and social costs to moving away from a carbon based economy, the benefits of reducing the damage caused by continuing to use fossil fuels far outweigh these costs. Sea level rise causing some countries to go under water and increasing salt water intrusion to coastal fresh water aquifers and increased sstorm damage to coastal infrastructure and the costs of coastal hardening, Ocean acidification leading to bleaching of coral reefs that are a major nursery of fish life and reduction of marine biodiversity. The increased costs of dealing with changes in rainfall patterns that result in more intense downpours causing flooding, erosion and a reduced ability to refill depleted aquifers because of rapid runoff. More frequent droughts and more intense droughts resulting in forest fires, forests that are more susceptible to insect attacks, agricultural losses, depletion of fossil groundwater resources. Loss of biodiversity due to changing climactic zones and pressure on niche species to move to higher altitude faster than they can manage. Spread of insect borne diseases to regions where it is no longer cold enough to kill off the vectors in the wintertime. The list goes on and on and the worst part is that the people who are least responsible for causing these problems are the ones who are the most likely to be harmed by them. There is a false equivalence between the real environmental and social impacts of emerging energy technologies and the damage that producing, let alone using fossil fuels causes. Consider the example you gave of wind turbines mixing air between different levels as a type of thermal pollution. Every power plant around the world that uses thermoelectric generation creates several orders of magnitude more thermal pollution than a wind farm of comparable output. Remember the Fukushima Nuclear power plants that were flooded in the tsunami that hit Japan a few years back? The reason why they were vulnerable is because all thermoelectric power plants need to be built next to sources of cooling water such as the ocean, so they can condense the steam produced by burning coal, burning oil, burning natural gas, nuclear fission, concentrating solar power, etc.. That massive amount of heat is then dumped back into the cooling water source. So yes, footprint is important.

Perhaps if I have time later, I will address the other false equivalence here, between the environmental impact of building and living in a house from scratch as opposed to building and living on boat, but I have ranted enough for one post!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> A dishwasher and a hot [member of the opposite binary] to push the button.


I actually have both aboard.

I never use the dishwasher, ever. The juice is just not worth the squeeze. I don't even flush out the winter anti-freeze anymore. That space is going to be repurposed into galley storage, when I feel like doing the carpentry.

As for the hot button pusher, I use her all the time. :wink


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Tossed lines yesterday and sailed off into 15 gusting 25. Before getting out of the Bay, it was gusting into the upper 30s and the Coast Guard announces a Securite to expect 40-50. We turn back to stay the night in the Bay. Dinghy ashore and have a great time! Best night sleep in a long time. Awake to a New England chilly spring morning and a hot pot of coffee. 

Absolutely nothing I can think of that I miss at the moment.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> A dishwasher and a hot [member of the opposite binary] to push the button.


I like to think my wife has all of that since I'm the one usually doing the dishes. Maybe I'm dreamin'.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

*Re: For all you LIVEABOARD folks....*



Minnewaska said:


> Pizza Pi boat, anchored in Christmas Cove on Little St James Island, USVI. Delivery is free, in the anchorage, if you order three pies! Although, taking one's own dinghy over to see the operation is a must. Freaking expensive, tho.


Somehow, I doubt they'll deliver some 380 nautical miles, and it would take a lot more than pizza delivery to get me back to the hell hole that is the VI.


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## sailforlife (Sep 14, 2016)

*Re: For all you LIVEABOARD folks....*



capta said:


> Somehow, I doubt they'll deliver some 380 nautical miles, and it would take a lot more than pizza delivery to get me back to the hell hole that is the VI.


. VI Hell hole oh please do tell .... elaborate...

:2 boat::2 boat:


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

C good post. There’s no doubt the new technologies aren’t without their faults and some very negative effects. However, they do represent a favorable evolution in our thinking about energy. I think they have evolved to the point that carbon footprint is only one of the reasons to embrace them and hope they will continue to evolve. 
You commented about the my first new boat and my building a new house for the first time .
Please note I fully expect my boat to be crossing oceans long after I’m worm poop. Similarly we intentionally spec’d the house to remain functional, aesthetically pleasing and low maintenance when my great grandchildren occupy it. There’s a marginal increase in expense to build with low maintenance and great durability in mind. The spec houses of prior recent decades are an example of how to make money for builders and developers but misserve the public as the recent storms in Texas and the south east demonstrate.


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## makobuilders (Feb 7, 2014)

COMMUNICATIONS
When I lived aboard (years ago) I didn't have internet or inexpensive cellular service, so I missed living the "normal" life that I had grown accustomed to. So in the near future when my wife and I commence prolonged cruising I will definitely install high gain antennas for 4G and wifi, to keep in touch with kids and friends. Perhaps even watch some Netflix when anchored close to civilization.

GARBAGE DISPOSAL
My boat had a dishwasher and a trash compactor. Turns out I never used (and still don't) the dishwasher. In the future will install pressure, filtered salt water. However the trash compactor was extremely helpful. Wow. The only problem was the specialized heavy duty paper bags. Storing trash (space and odors) during long ocean passages really sucks!


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## makobuilders (Feb 7, 2014)

COMMUNICATIONS
When I lived aboard I didn't have internet or inexpensive cellular service, so I missed the "normal" communications that I had grown accustomed to. So in the near future when my wife and I commence prolonged cruising I will definitely install high gain antennas for 4G and wifi, to keep in touch with kids and friends. Perhaps even watch some Netflix when anchored close to civilization.

GARBAGE DISPOSAL
My boat had a dishwasher and a trash compactor. Turns out I never used (and still don't) the dishwasher. In the future will install pressure, filtered salt water. However the trash compactor was extremely helpful. Wow. The only problem was the specialized heavy duty paper bags. Storing trash (space and odors) during long ocean passages really sucks!

STORAGE SPACE
I believe bigger is better when it comes to boats for long passages, remote cruising and independence. Can't have enough storage space since as a live aboard I didn't have a garage or offsite storage.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

What do you plan to filter out in your saltwater filter


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## riggy001 (Sep 25, 2018)

Let's reverse this for a landlubber ex-liveaboard;

I miss the sound of the wires hitting the inside of the mast when she rocked. I miss being rocked to sleep when another vessel would pass near the dock. I miss the "only $50/mo extra liveaboard fee" for all the free water and electricity I could use! I miss... ...the TV on a 14" laptop monitor at 4 feet away still looked the same as a 27" TV all the way across a living room, but folded up and stowed under a cushion. ...a 1500W space heater with fan was too much heat in the winter. ...a 5000 BTU hatchtop A/C unit was just enough. ...the yellowish soft light of the interior 1156 bulbs in the sconce fixtures. ...dock showers in the summer. ...the shudder of the rig in a high wind gust (or hurricane (stayed aboard at dock for 2--Alberto and Opal)). ...the grill being 5 feet away from the dinner table. The stove being 5 feet away from the dinner table. ...$184/mo rent (which included the $50 liveaboard fee). ...free cable. ...the 4" foam cushion on which I slept for years and never had a backache (I only last 7 hours on my current mattress and always wake up in pain). 

S/V Cajun, DO597655, 1977 Columbia 8.3 hull 101, R.I.P.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

makobuilders said:


> COMMUNICATIONS.... I will definitely install high gain antennas for 4G and wifi, to keep in touch with kids and friends. Perhaps even watch some Netflix when anchored close to civilization.


I think the free WiFi game is coming to an end. Even where it's free, you often need the password. The vendors that give it away want you in their store. When 5G cellular becomes mainstream, most won't need WiFi and I suspect the giveaway WiFi will nearly disappear.



> ........the trash compactor was extremely helpful. Wow. The only problem was the specialized heavy duty paper bags. Storing trash (space and odors) during long ocean passages really sucks!


Always wanted one. Do you recall make/model?


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Precisely the opposite reason many choose to sail away is that people like to have established roots, be part of a community, create a comfortable home and be surrounded by the familiar. I suspect that a fair number people who sail off may not realize what they had til it's gone. Not everyone re-calibrates daily expectations successfully for long term.

I wonder what the states are concerning how many people never return to dirt compared to those who do after years aboard out there.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

at the moment I miss air conditioning without having to listen/run the generator!!!


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

riggy001 said:


> Let's reverse this for a landlubber ex-liveaboard;
> 
> I miss the sound of the wires hitting the inside of the mast when she rocked. I miss being rocked to sleep when another vessel would pass near the dock. I miss the "only $50/mo extra liveaboard fee" for all the free water and electricity I could use! I miss... ...the TV on a 14" laptop monitor at 4 feet away still looked the same as a 27" TV all the way across a living room, but folded up and stowed under a cushion. ...a 1500W space heater with fan was too much heat in the winter. ...a 5000 BTU hatchtop A/C unit was just enough. ...the yellowish soft light of the interior 1156 bulbs in the sconce fixtures. ...dock showers in the summer. ...the shudder of the rig in a high wind gust (or hurricane (stayed aboard at dock for 2--Alberto and Opal)). ...the grill being 5 feet away from the dinner table. The stove being 5 feet away from the dinner table. ...$184/mo rent (which included the $50 liveaboard fee). ...free cable. ...the 4" foam cushion on which I slept for years and never had a backache (I only last 7 hours on my current mattress and always wake up in pain).


The grass is always greener or maybe the water is always bluer...

I've been looking in on this thread since it started and have been asking myself repeatedly, what did I miss about dirt life when I was living aboard? I thought I might have written something down in my journal, i had not.

I miss living aboard terribly, but I'd miss my wife even more. She's loves to sail and we spend all the time that we can on board now. Hoping when we retire in 4 years we'll be able to spend even more time on board.

I remember moving from my 30' Pearson (which had maybe 15' of living space) to a 600 square foot studio and thinking what the H am I going to do with all of this space. It was and still is a bit overwhelming. The worst part is that the studio doesn't move and we end up flying to the places that we want to visit....I don't enjoy flying.

The apartment is very stagnant...the view, the neighborhood and the neighbors are almost always the same. Some folks might find comfort in that...to me, it shares too many similarities to a long term prison sentence. It also feels very removed from nature....the sounds, the weather, the movement of the clouds and sea. Might as well be living in a bubble on the Moon. ...the grass is always greener...


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## makobuilders (Feb 7, 2014)

RegisteredUser said:


> What do you plan to filter out in your saltwater filter


A seawater strainer isn't fine enough. Why would you pump raw salt water into the galley? An inexpensive Home Depot whole house paper filter is worth the money.



Minnewaska said:


> I think the free WiFi game is coming to an end... When 5G cellular becomes mainstream, most won't need WiFi and I suspect the giveaway WiFi will nearly disappear.


 Good point. SIM cards and data are rather cheap in most countries - we always pick them up at the airport at each country we travel to.



Minnewaska said:


> Always wanted one. Do you recall make/model?


Don't remember, but it was just a normal domestic unit, 12" wide. I wonder if it is practical to install a small incinerator on a boat? Maybe just a solid wood burning fireplace can be used to burn paper/cartons, etc.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

scubadoo said:


> The apartment is very stagnant...the view, the neighborhood and the neighbors are almost always the same. Some folks might find comfort in that...to me, it shares too many similarities to a long term prison sentence. ...


13 years I've been floating about the world. 
Probably another 13 to go. Maybe 13 after that. 
There's no prison out here 

"People can say they want freedom, but offer them the keys to what chains them, a map to where they want to go,
And they'll turn it down for the cell they know"


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

makobuilders said:


> Why would you pump raw salt water into the galley?
> 
> SIM cards and data are rather cheap in most countries - we always pick them up at the airport at each country we travel to.


Raw water into the sink on a high pressure water pump (Jabsco pressure Max 4 I think) is one of the greatest lifestyle additions I have made to the boat for long range cruising.

I can lay at anchor for months on end without loading fresh water, I can sail the world's largest oceans using only 1 tank of fresh, keeping 1 tank for reserve. 
I have a spray bottle of fresh to rinse the salt off.

SIM Cards: new USA rules for foreigners applying for a new B1B2 visa is to supply *all* the SIM card phone numbers (I guess for the last 5 years) LOL I've listed 22 countries in the last 5 years, most with a local SIM card. Homeland Security can go fish for all those numbers :grin


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

We have a raw water foot pump in the galley, with dedicated faucet, which is a huge fresh water saver, when rinsing and washing dishes. Only the final rinse needs fresh. 

We chartered a bareboat several years ago, which had a separate electric raw water pump and faucet, which meant that faucet could be used like one at home. Turn it on as high as you like and let it run all you like. Even a few straight minutes of running the pump, which is a looooong time for running water aboard, was negligible power draw.

My wife asks about every other week, when we’ll install one. My answer has become, when we’re swinging on the hook in St Martin for a month. Good chandleries there you know. 🙂


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Raw salt water to the galley is indeed a game changer for those of us without watermakers, and who like to spend months at a time off the dock. 

Like others, salt water goes directly in with only minimal filtering. It’s used for all manner of bulk washing. Fresh water spritz takes care of the salt.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

We have a foot pump for fresh and a footpump for salt. Although we have pressure water and a watermaker both are frequently used. Our watermaker runs on DC. By using the footpumps we only make water once or twice a week. We use fresh for the heads and showers. That’s nice.
I’ve lived in multiple states. In houses, condos, and apartments. I’ve lived for years never really knowing my neighbors and in some places never even meeting them.
When cruising it’s different. There’s a real sense of community. People you’ve met in prior years you met again. There’s enough full time cruisers that you develop a circle of true friends you see time and again often hanging in a locale just to spend a week with them instead of moving on. I didn’t get this type of interaction coastal cruising the eastern seaboard but when you’re all foreigners (abet from different countries) there’s a us/them making all cruisers buddies until proven otherwise. 
Missing community is not on my list and suspect it’s not on many. 

Came back to the states. I have a wound on my posterior thigh that required admission to hospital and now daily VNA services. It was cared for in Grenada and botched badly. Given I was nonfunctional wife had to do chores on the boat. She fell and fractured her foot in three places. Her care was equally dismal according to the orthopedic here.
So very definitely, inspite of all the problems of US health care, one thing on my list is quality emergency health care. 

We will be out of function for at least 3 weeks now but at least receiving quality health care with every expectation both of us will return to full function. Strongly advise any full time international cruiser obtain some sort of medivac insurance if traveling in third or even second world countries.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Out, hope you and your bride recover quickly and well. Good post about foreign cheap medical care. While there is no doubt that one can get some stitches or a filling cheaper overseas, it’s clearly not always better. I’m always glad to read of cruising success stories, but condition, treatment and recovery are all highly variable.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

outbound said:


> We will be out of function for at least 3 weeks now but at least receiving quality health care with every expectation both of us will return to full function. Strongly advise any full time international cruiser obtain some sort of medivac insurance if traveling in third or even second world countries.


Sorry to hear about this. Hope you are both better soon.

BTW Diesnt Grenada have a American hospital associated with the University? 
Just a recollection, I could be wrong.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

outbound said:


> We have a foot pump for fresh and a footpump for salt. Although we have pressure water and a watermaker both are frequently used. Our watermaker runs on DC. By using the footpumps we only make water once or twice a week. We use fresh for the heads and showers. That's nice.
> I've lived in multiple states. In houses, condos, and apartments. I've lived for years never really knowing my neighbors and in some places never even meeting them.
> When cruising it's different. There's a real sense of community. People you've met in prior years you met again. There's enough full time cruisers that you develop a circle of true friends you see time and again often hanging in a locale just to spend a week with them instead of moving on. I didn't get this type of interaction coastal cruising the eastern seaboard but when you're all foreigners (abet from different countries) there's a us/them making all cruisers buddies until proven otherwise.
> Missing community is not on my list and suspect it's not on many.
> ...


Hope you both recover.

This alone is why we will never give up our land home. We have downsized from the big house and yard already, but as you age and you recognize that EVERYONE goes through physical issues,

I'd rather do that in a house/ land homw in a specific area which has good consistent medical care. I don't want to be at the mercy of which ever doctor is on duty in some third world countries medical facility.

Many of us know how important good health care is and make sure in our working lives that we are covered. I think not having this is something I would miss if I was a full time long term cruiser.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

So sorry for your struggles OB. Shows the fragility of health and life. I hope you and your wife make a speedy recovery now that you’re back home.

I guess the plus side is you’ll have more time to hang out here .


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Med school isn’t open on weekends and has no emergency clinic. They try hard in the islands and the docs aren’t stupid but have such limited resources. Example when starting an IV they had one alcohol swab and one short piece of tape to hold it in place. Here the RN opened and applied a 1/2 dozen little bits of kit. 
You needed to bring in your own linen and bed sheets. There’s no dietary service to speak of. Patients family is expect to bring in food and water. We had to buy bottled water even to get though our very brief stay. I wanted a rapid strep, stain and cultures so I could choose appropriate antibiotics. I gave them my email. Yet to hear from them.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

To be even more explicit. There I was given no pain control, no antibiotics and discharged with a script for an oral antibiotic. On appeal my wife had a broken foot got a 7 day supply of an oral antibiotic.
Here upon assessment was started on two IV antibiotics, pain management and discharged to VNA for ongoing care.
Here I will return to my baseline. There I would become septic and likely die.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

And no real possibility of sailing to Martinique? 

I didn't know Grenada was that bad.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Both of us were non ambulatory.

Get in a plane and leave. Only real option for most of the islands from BVI to Trinidad. 


Stuff like this is why being on the boat by myself scares the crap out of me. Even if not moving the boat accidents, injuries and illness can occur. I can sail the boat by myself. Doubt I could deal with any kind of such a medical issue alone. See old duffers living alone on their boats. Fortunately many have a network or at least a fellow cruiser who looks in time to time and checks on them. On the daily net one was trying to get people to donate blood so he could have lifesaving surgery. Time to time there’s fund raising. The dream of being an expat if you have limited resources both financially but more importantly socially can be quite a nightmare. 
We transferred a young Pole from St.Lucia to Bequia. It was a huge hassle getting him off the boat. Was successful when he bought a ferry ticket to Grenada so was able to get him off our crew list. Saw him in St. Luce. Broke, hungry, dirty and sleeping rough. Given he lied to us about having plans in place to transfer to another boat in Bequia had sympathy but refused any contact beyond acknowledging his predicament. Expect he remains alone and on the beach.


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## chowdan (Nov 11, 2015)

Honestly? There isn't much I miss from land. Granted I am working full time and doing a refit so I live in a marina. 

Because of the refit, I miss my clean apartments, and free time, but in general there isnt much more. 

My boat is plenty big for two of us, has all the amenities that our apartments had, just smaller versions. We dont shower aboard the boat so that would probably be my biggest thing, especially during winter having to walk to/from the showers.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

lately I miss having a car


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