# Best Route: LIS to Chesapeake



## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

If someone had a boat around City Island New York and wanted to sail it to the Chesapeake, would the best route be to take it South through the East River, through Throgs Neck, around Rikers, under all the bridges, to join up with the Hudson and follow the Great Loop from there? Or would it be better to skip the traffic and congestion to sail Northeast up the Long Island Sound and go outside and South? All of the bridge clearances through the East River route look fine but there is all of the congestion and controlled areas around Roosevelt and Governor's Islands and around Hell Gate.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

As usual it depends... on the winds. There's a fair bit of traffic in LIS and getting through the gut and around Montauk is not without peril... timing the current is everything running down the Sound.. well almost.

It's not as if you are not maintaining watch... 

I would take the inside route timing the passage through Hells Gate and hopefully sail after you pass under the Throggs Neck Bridge. If the SW has been blowing... the sea will be calmer in the "lee" of the Jersey shore.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

The trip through the East River is not a big deal, you just have to time the currents. Especially at Hell Gate. From there it's a trip along the New Jersey shore, then up the Delaware to the C&D canal and through to the Chessie. Watch the weather for the Jersey shore leg and plan on which inlets you might jump into. Some are OK and others are dangerous in bad weather.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Done it both ways. Coming out of Montauk was a long trip for myself alone. I think I left Fishers island about midnight, sailed all day and night and arrived about 5:00pm in Cape May. It’s about 200 miles. For me NY Harbor is a zoo. I prefer off shore, but that’s just me.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

East River - Planning Your Passage for a Fair Current or Slack Water

As JimsCal says the East River is not that bad if you time it right, and your engine is reliable!

You can cut between the Brother Islands, there are channel markers. Keep to the right of Roosevelt Island. When you get near the Hudson river and the Battery and Brooklyn Bridge you can take Buttermilk channel ( behind Governor's Island ) ( a left turn after the Brooklyn Bridge). Unless you desire a closeup of the Statue of Liberty. Buttermilk Channel will exit toward the Bay Ridge Flats, there's plenty of water in there and it keeps you out of the main channel. It's an anchorage area for barges etc. The big boats and Ferries use Buttermilk too so keep an eye out for traffic. I try to stay to port as I approach lower Manhattan to avoid the ferries pulling in and out, but sometimes it's not possible. If you're riding the full current down the east river, you shouldn't see to much commercial traffic coming up, as they usually wait for slack or fair current.

Depending on the wind and current, you may see some chop under the Verrazano Bridge as wind against current can churn it up. just plow through. There's good water to port fairly close to shore.

If you need to wait for a weather window to head offshore you can Hang out in the Atlantic Highlands for a bit. The Yacht Club has moorings with Launch Service for $50. Or you can anchor behind the breakwater and get launch service for $25? I believe. Or you can anchor off Sandy Hook in Horseshoe cove.

The overnight passage to Cape May is Roughly 24 hours. However, you could make it to Atlantic City in a Long day if you leave Dawn or pre-dawn. Otherwise there's Manasquan and Barnegat Inlets, which I wouldn't recommend on your first trip.

If you time the east river for Slack before ebb expect to see commercial traffic doing the same.

Listen to channel 13 and 16

*** Note, Before planning your passage make sure you check the current Local Notice to Mariners to make sure there are no closures or restrictions in place! There are often, races, events, U.N activities, construction, etc. that you'll want to be mindful of.

I wouldn't shy away from the East River and go out around Montauk, The prevailing winds are SW ( on the nose) and there's no good places to duck into. So timing that trip would be critical too. Waiting for a something with a northerly component.

Good Luck! I listened to all the horror stories...at the end of the day.. it ain't so bad, it's very cool.


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## peterlsmith (Sep 26, 2017)

midwesterner said:


> If someone had a boat around City Island New York and wanted to sail it to the Chesapeake, would the best route be to take it South through the East River, through Throgs Neck, around Rikers, under all the bridges, to join up with the Hudson and follow the Great Loop from there? Or would it be better to skip the traffic and congestion to sail Northeast up the Long Island Sound and go outside and South? All of the bridge clearances through the East River route look fine but there is all of the congestion and controlled areas around Roosevelt and Governor's Islands and around Hell Gate.


How many crew members, where to in the Chesapeake, and is there schedule?

My experience with the East River was amazing - leaving City Island at dawn to catch the tide we scooted through very quickly. The views of New York city were great and there was minimal traffic - just a couple of other sailboats, a float plane that landed a few hundred yards behind us, but no other obvious obstacles. The Upper Bay can get congested, but it is mostly ferries and moored barges and there is plenty of room to maneuver. From there we carried straight on down the New Jersey coast overnight, reaching Cape May around dawn, continuing up the Delaware and through the C&O canal to stop in Chesapeake City that evening (so around 36 hours non-stop, with a crew of four). From there is was a relatively short day down to Annapolis.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

peterlsmith said:


> How many crew members, where to in the Chesapeake, and is there schedule?


Crew would probably be three of us. No schedule. I'd probably take a week. Don't like being in a hurry. I've not decided on a home port yet. I'd be looking to get farther south to a cheaper area. Some place where I could get in and out through an airport, with a plan to eventually, make a series of similar moves to be south of the snow belt before winter but to schedule it to miss the hurricane season.

I have family near Selby, south of Annapolis, and near New Bern North Carolina. I'm guessing that City Island is more pricey for storage and service.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Annapolis area is every bit as pricy as City Island

We’ve done the trip over 50 times. Both ways. Waste of time heading out the Sound from City Island. 

Ride the outgoing ebb current down the East River through Hell Gate and continue through NY Harbor and out to the Ocean. Don’t wait for slack or you’ll be keeping company with three -barge barge trains

Good advice on NJ inlets. Only Atlantic City and Cape May are fine. Manesquan is ok but no place to anchor. Barnegat excellent anchorage treacherous inlet first time or with and Eastern wind component against outgoing current. 

Delaware River to Chessie is leaving Cape MY 1 hr before CURRENT changes and you’ll ride it up and through the C&D Canal provided you motor. 

If you need help planning contact me.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

i95... 
if you trailer.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Why do I feel like the OP is a first-time author planning to write a book?

Long Island is pretty much a hundred miles long. City Island is pretty much at the west end of it, so you can either go south and out NY Harbor, or make a hundred mile detour to get east of Long Island and then come that same hundred miles back west again. Two hundred extra miles in a small boat. Hmmmm.

Buy a copy of "Eldridge", any year will do. You'll have details for landmarks and distances and courses for the entire trip in it.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

hellosailor said:


> Why do I feel like the OP is a first-time author planning to write a book?
> 
> Long Island is pretty much a hundred miles long. City Island is pretty much at the west end of it,.... Two hundred extra miles in a small boat. Hmmmm.


Ha, you're wrong. I asked the question because I have been on this site long enough to know that there would be plenty of varied (and even conflicting) opinions. You have proven that old adage that compares opinions to butts.

I knew that there would probably be people saying, "Oh my, the East River? Ferries and barges and closings along Roosevelt. Currents and tides and old pilings, oh my! No, going the long way up the Long Island Sound is worth the extra time it takes."

Then I knew there would be people who would say, "Nah, no worries, go south, it's an adventure."

I don't know if you have read the posts in this discussion, but two people said that they have gone the northern route, up the sound. Presumably they did so because the longer distance seemed preferable to navigating the traffic along the river route. One person actually said he prefers the longer route. I asked, because I've never traveled through there, and I wanted to know what to expect. That seems unreasonable to you?

And, then there were people who gave me great information on exactly how to make the passage and what I can expect. Your response was actually the only one that didn't offer much helpful information at all. I guess you haven't noticed that I've been a member on here for over two and a half years and have been actively involved in sailing discussions. And, when I write my book, it will be based on things I've actually done.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

midwesterner said:


> Ha, you're wrong. I asked the question because I have been on this site long enough to know that there would be plenty of varied (and even conflicting) opinions. You have proven that old adage that compares opinions to butts.
> 
> I knew that there would probably be people saying, "Oh my, the East River? Ferries and barges and closings along Roosevelt. Currents and tides and old pilings, oh my! No, going the long way up the Long Island Sound is worth the extra time it takes."
> 
> ...


Translation = y'all been trolled!


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

deniseO30 said:


> Translation = y'all been trolled!


Huh, how do you figure that?


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## peterlsmith (Sep 26, 2017)

midwesterner said:


> Crew would probably be three of us. No schedule. I'd probably take a week. Don't like being in a hurry. ...


In my opinion the East River is worth doing at least once in your life, but I prefer being further from land so if I felt the boat and crew were up to it, time was not an issue, and a good weather window was available, I'd take a couple of days to head up the Sound. Stop one night in Morris Cove (New Haven) and a second in the Great Salt Pond (Block Island). Then go offshore from there down to Cape May for a rest stop before heading up the Delaware.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

peterlsmith said:


> In my opinion the East River is worth doing at least once in your life, but I prefer being further from land so if I felt the boat and crew were up to it, time was not an issue, and a good weather window was available, I'd take a couple of days to head up the Sound. Stop one night in Morris Cove (New Haven) and a second in the Great Salt Pond (Block Island). Then go offshore from there down to Cape May for a rest stop before heading up the Delaware.


You can only sail 6hrs or so with a fair tide going east or west down the Sound. If you have to tack or gybe and that's likely it will take you longer than 2 days to reach BI from City Island with one stop over. Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? No


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

Thank you, Tempest, PeterlSmith and Chef2Sail, your responses were the most helpful. If I end up doing this trip, I will be consulting you. I've walked along or driven along most of this route by land, at various times. It's hard to tell from shore. I've jogged around Roosevelt Island and watched boats in the river and it looks a little intimidating from shore. It's good to hear from people who have made the trip. It's the kind of experience I was looking to hear from.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

FYI, I've always tried to find an early weekend morning to transit the East River if the schedule allows. I find that I encounter fewer recreational power boats and jet skis, and fewer ferries.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

midwesterner said:


> Thank you, Tempest, PeterlSmith and Chef2Sail, your responses were the most helpful. If I end up doing this trip, I will be consulting you. I've walked along or driven along most of this route by land, at various times. It's hard to tell from shore. I've jogged around Roosevelt Island and watched boats in the river and it looks a little intimidating from shore. It's good to hear from people who have made the trip. It's the kind of experience I was looking to hear from.


I've done it and done it both inbound and outbound. Down the East River at the right time is the preferable route... unless you want to sail a few hundred extra miles.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

It really is no biggie. Just don’t fight the current
We’ve hit 13.5 on the Chartplotter SOG on one trip when we got sucked in from the Atlantic by the Statue of Liberty And rocketed through 
Hell Gate

The worst traffic is from the Verrazano to the State Island Fery Terminal. We just hang along the eastern side. Listen to the VHF chatter , laugh, and taken in all the cool landmarks and bridges. Stay out of the main shipping channels in lower NY Bay and if you need to cross them, don’t dilly dalley. 

The more dangerous part of the trip would be trying to come in any of the treacherous NJ Inlets other than Manesquan, Atlantic City, Cape May and possibly Barnegat with coaching and good weatherconditions.

Heading south usually in summer means beating into prevailing S/SW u til 1 or so then the SE onshore afternoon ocean breeze.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

midwesterner said:


> I knew that there would probably be people saying, "Oh my, the East River? Ferries and barges and closings along Roosevelt. Currents and tides and old pilings, oh my! No, going the long way up the Long Island Sound is worth the extra time it takes."
> 
> Then I knew there would be people who would say, "Nah, no worries, go south, it's an adventure."


Totally get the varied answer thing. That is why I like Sailnet too.

But to be clear I seriously doubt that you will find anyone that would advise you to travel an extra 200 miles to avoid the east river.

The folks that talked about leaving from Montauk were probably just relaying their experiences with that direction and not actually suggesting that the East River was so bad.

You may have other reasons to go east like wanting to stop and visit me for example on your way to Annapolis.

I have done it both ways myself. I've done it outside when leaving from Mystic and inside when leaving from Branford.

To summarize if you are trying to get to Annapolis from CI 99% of skippers would go west unless they had a good reason to add a few days to their trip or unless Putin was at the UN and the river was closed.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Just went through the East River 2 days ago. I don’t really understand all the fear of doing it. It’s easy to time the current and boat traffic is nothing compared to a regular popular weekend boater bay/cove.


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## justified (Jun 14, 2007)

I have done it both ways and coming or going around Montauk is nice, but IMHO there is nothing like seeing NYC from the water and Lady Liberty.( about 6 times) I get chills every time and think about the millions who past through there to come to America. Sorry I digressed. 
If you time the trip with favorable current to carry you down the East river it will be a nice ride. I would not recommend doing it at night the light pollution is very difficult to tell what is a boat or onshore. The first time I did the trip our engine cut out due to slug, around the Brothers and we drifted the entire way, finally got her started as we entered the upper bay. Sorry I digressed again. 
However you decide fair winds to you and crew and if nothing else ENJOY!

Peter


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I have also travelled the East River both ways several times and agree with the prevailing sentiment: busy but fun. 

Besides Atlantic Highlands in Raritan Bay there is an anchorage in Brooklyn just to the south of the Verrazano bridge in Gravesend Bay near the (now closed) large Toys R' Us building. This anchorage was useful to us when coming north to NY from the Chesapeake but could be used as a place to rest before undertaking the long leg south to Cape May (24+ hours). Anchoring at 3 am was preferable to motoring further to Liberty Landing marina in a foul current and opposing winds. I do not recommend sailing/motoring at night in NY Harbor for the reasons previously stated (light pollution makes it difficult to discern what you are seeing). Sailing south off the NJ coast at night is much preferable to NY Harbor.

Enjoy the ride.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Time the East River currents and skip the weekend crowd. Once you get through the River and into the harbor slow down and see the sights.

How many times in your life will you get to sail by the Statue of Liberty? I was headed from Annapolis to Block Island so I could have gone either way. My answer to that question made my decision for me.


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## April Fools Northport (Jul 13, 2018)

hellosailor said:


> Why do I feel like the OP is a first-time author planning to write a book?
> 
> Long Island is pretty much a hundred miles long. City Island is pretty much at the west end of it, so you can either go south and out NY Harbor, or make a hundred mile detour to get east of Long Island and then come that same hundred miles back west again. Two hundred extra miles in a small boat. Hmmmm.
> 
> Buy a copy of "Eldridge", any year will do. You'll have details for landmarks and distances and courses for the entire trip in it.


I've done that trip from Northport west under the bridges, down the river and out under the Verrazano in a 35' Morgan and I'm thinking why would anyone want to sail east 100 miles and then west even further just to avoid the East River and NY Harbor? Going east adds 2 days to the trip and a pretty long ocean haul west along Long Island's south shore. And, Plum Gut and The Race can be just as dangerous if not more so for a small boat with an inexperienced captain in it than the East River can be. I've done both and my vote is NY Harbor. And, you can't beat looking at NYC at sunrise with a view only a boater can get.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Don0190 said:


> Just went through the East River 2 days ago. I don't really understand all the fear of doing it. It's easy to time the current and boat traffic is nothing compared to a regular popular weekend boater bay/cove.


Years ago when really he trash transfer station was operation it was normally only full of tugs and barge trains,

NYC trash was loaded on barge trains 3 deep right there. Then taken out NY Harbor to be dumped offshore. The waters of the East River were full of dead animals, telephone poles, picnic tables and all sorts of dangerous floating stuff .

We've been through with the current running at 7+ knots in the spring after storms and runoff. In heavy winds against current it can get pretty spun up for that 1 mile stretch from the Harlem River to the end of the JFK runway.

Also barges have come loose through there wiping out boats as you can't maneiuver with that kind of current.

Maybe that will explain its reputation.

You came through on a very benign day obviously as most are. We've also done the same transiting it many many times and have excercised appropriate caution as we would in any inlet with huge current. To me following the recommendation to come through at slack puts you in the middle of the gigs and barge trains as that's when they run. WE try and avoid that.

Good to hear you've been through easily. Perfect time to be on the Sound

Not sure if you've visited Port Washington. Free moorings for three days and a great grocery store. Northport...one of my most favorite LI towns, 
Port Jefferson.. a great eclectic town. We anchor in all of them.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

chef2sail said:


> Not sure if you've visited Port Washington. Free moorings for three days and a great grocery store. Northport...one of my most favorite LI towns,
> Port Jefferson.. a great eclectic town. We anchor in all of them.


Was on a mooring in Port Washington for 4 days and no one ever came by to say there was a time limit. Port washington is among the top 3 cruisers stops on the east coast in my opinion about going down and back up the coast.
What did you like about Port Jefferson? I stopped 2 years ago and it just seemed a standard tourist town.
Haven't been to Northport, whats there to do/see?

I started 2 years ago from Salem, MA so have seen many places already. But we look for more than just another quaint shore town for stops. One thing about the NE though is that unlike the Chesapeake quaint towns, the town will be open :devil


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Don0190 said:


> Was on a mooring in Port Washington for 4 days and no one ever came by to say there was a time limit. Port washington is among the top 3 cruisers stops on the east coast in my opinion about going down and back up the coast.
> What did you like about Port Jefferson? I stopped 2 years ago and it just seemed a standard tourist town.
> Haven't been to Northport, whats there to do/see?
> 
> I started 2 years ago from Salem, MA so have seen many places already. But we look for more than just another quaint shore town for stops. One thing about the NE though is that unlike the Chesapeake quaint towns, the town will be open :devil


You are aware that a harbor can be an enormous attraction to tourist as people enjoy being by the shore as well as on the beach. Towns will zone and encourage commercial development because it generates tax revenues which are used to support services of the town. Commercial development of the shore side is a double edged sword. You may get what you want but you loose what you had.

Of course not all harbors are created equal and the development will reflect this as well as the interests of the community planning board.

What is the ideal harbor? Depends on who you ask.

Newport has it all... except peace and quiet. Tourist attractions, history, world class marine facilities, docks, marinas, moorings, anchorage, public launch, bathrooms and showers, yacht clubs, multiple fuel docks, ferries,. tourist rides, many restaurants, trendy boutiques, parks, B&Bs hotels, public transport, tennis museum... etc. It's in a class by itself. Good sailing location for cruising

Northport by contrast has development but clearly on a smaller scale than Newport. It does not have the history, the historic buildings, nor a developed maritime community. It has a selection of restaurants, but none literally on the water. It has a beautiful park on the water buffering the town from the harbor where it hosts all manner of cultural events. This a huge tourist attraction in itself. The rest of the harbor is lined with some private homes a couple of yacht clubs,a town marina and a small private one. The anchorage is filled with moored boats.. with anchoring well off to the north. Town pier is free and first come first served. It's good 1/2hr or more to get out to LIS. It's well off the main east-west auto routes. If you didn't know NPT was there you'd never find it. It has one the top rated restaurants in NY State. Northport is definitely on the quiet peaceful side. Moderate area for cruising

West Harbor, Fishers Island is VERY quiet and has only a single fuel dock, no restaurants except one which is a 20 minute walk from the harbor. It has a single yacht club, no transient moorings, a handful of private moorings, a large anchorage with good holding. No tourists... private island more or less. Good area for cruising


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

We liked the eclectic restaurants as well my wife liked some of the shops in Port Jefferson. We have used that as a jumping off town when we want to do the Sound in one day and not cross over to the Connecticut side We also stop sometimes in Mattituck, no an entrance for the faint of heart. 

One of the thing I like about the LI towns is that they are so different from the condominium overbuilt towns in Florida along the coast. 

Many of the small towns along the Chessie are closed or rather sleepy. That’s true. Often times what is not visible to a cruiser close to the boat is the historical aspects of the Chessie towns. America in the beginning was settled and developed through the Chesapeake. Not only the war battles, but also the trade and relationships with England, France etc. to Donna and I visiting these towns are not what is open or not but the role they played in the fabric of America. The Chessie is on the bird North American flyway and there are many varieties to be seen in its anchorages. It’s the first stop not frozen going south so many of these birds can winter safely. You see that in fall. 

Another part of the Chessie which is unique to many other places we have sailed is the many creeks , rivers anchorages available to explore. As a cruiser that may not be apparent, but to those of us who keep our boats there it is unique for Gunkholing. 

We love the LI Sound and it’s the reason we go up there so often. Different from the Chessie many creeks and anchorable Rivers , the Sound has more specific inlets to come in . 

Northport is a sleepy town with a small midwestern feel. The mooring field is huge. Other LI places we like to visit include the “forks” of LI. Greenport and Orriental on the western and Sag Harbor, 3 Mile, and Montouk on the eastern. Stay a few days in Mountauk and you see the huge variety of cold water fish ( the best seafood) from tuna, swordfish, wahoo, and great whites displayed hanging at the docks. Nice sandy Atlantic beaches. 

Both sailing capitals of the east ( Newport and Annapolis) and the surrounding areas are located in these two areas. The fishing fleets are huge. 

On the Connecticut / RI side try Stonington - scallop capital of the east. And of course the museum in Mystic. There are many other quaint towns on that side like Saybrooke, Essex, Greenwhich, Branford, to name a small few. 

I am not sure in the eyes of a cruiser that any of these interest you. Cruisers don’t spend enough time in any one spot to really get a true flavor of an area, but that’s the nature of traveling and that sailing lifestyle I’ve begun to realize. It’s can of hard to really get the flavor when you only spend a day or two anywhere. Visiting an area cannot be achieved from just spending the time in a 5 miles radius from the water. 

Some like to travel that way.....we’d rather immerse ourselves in places we travel to. Even when we travel north we generally pick one area to concentrate on. 

We tend to look for the enjoyable aspects of what areas tend to offer. Even in crowded cities . Even in sleepy or closed cities. Many of the posters in the Chessie and LI Sound communities have visited each other’s areas. THere are so many oppertunities for sailing trips and weeks vacations in both areas. 
The community of sailors who keep their boats in both areas generally love sailing them....just ask. 

I think many have made suggestions for places we enjoy visiting in our areas that we find fun. So far it appears you don’t see them that way. To many bugs, too hot, too cold, too expensive, too sleepy, towns closed . Maybe that reflects the differences between what a cruiser looks for as opposed to what a person who settles permanently looks for.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Chef.. very well stated... Annapolis to Maine is a robust cruising ground with something for everyone... Unfortunately it's also rather crowded... on the water and on the roads and in the restaurants and so on.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

One major attraction in Northport is the Engeman Theatre which is just a short walk up Main Street from the docks. They do Broadway caliber musicals and plays. Musical Newsies is currently running.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

JimsCAL said:


> One major attraction in Northport is the Engeman Theatre which is just a short walk up Main Street from the docks. They do Broadway caliber musicals and plays. Musical Newsies is currently running.


And the Vanderbilt's Eagle's Nest is on the Centerport side.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

chef2sail said:


> I think many have made suggestions for places we enjoy visiting in our areas that we find fun. So far it appears you don't see them that way. To many bugs, too hot, too cold, too expensive, too sleepy, towns closed . Maybe that reflects the differences between what a cruiser looks for as opposed to what a person who settles permanently looks for.


Not true at all that I don't "like" places. The real difference is that a cruiser who is on the water all the time sees places different than someone who sails out and back from their home port on weekends and every once in a while goes further for a few days. Back in my weekender days a quiet cove or a stop in a shoreside town with 1.25 resturants was fun. But I've now seen 100s of those all from maine to the bahamas and the Keys and can find them everywhere.

I've been to at least 90% of the places people have recommended pluses places no weekender is ever going to see.

BTW - I'm glad you sound like you enjoy the bugs, too hot, too cold, too expensive, too sleepy, towns closed places. I don't feel insulted at all that I don't if that was your goal.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Don0190 said:


> Not true at all that I don't "like" places. The real difference is that a cruiser who is on the water all the time sees places different than someone who sails out and back from their home port on weekends and every once in a while goes further for a few days. Back in my weekender days a quiet cove or a stop in a shoreside town with 1.25 resturants was fun. But I've now seen 100s of those all from maine to the bahamas and the Keys and can find them everywhere.
> 
> I've been to at least 90% of the places people have recommended pluses places no weekender is ever going to see.
> 
> BTW I'm glad you sound like you enjoy the bugs, too hot, too cold, too expensive, too sleepy, towns closed places. I don't feel insulted at all that I don't if that was your goal.


See you missed the point. 
Let me try again

When you only stay a couple of days in one place you focus on the aberrations as you do. As I pointed out we look at our trips. Every place has bugs, heat etc. m

You made a quip in another post not understanding why He'll Gate was such a talked about area. That because you came through in begnin conditions with no history of the area.

Judgements made on things with one or limited experience are often not a true indication of what lies there.

Just because you are a cruiser also doesn't mean you necessarily do more sailing 
or live some fuller greater view of the water as you seem to think you do.

We generally charter a couple weeks a year in different venues, something most cruisers wouldn't do.

I don't foresee us ever becoming cruisers even when we retire in a couple of years. Too many other things to do and see that you can't from the confines of a 40 foot boat. I don't want to get in the point where I chase a brewpub . We try and keep our life more rounded and varied and enjoy other parts of our lives than just sitting in a boat and moving it around.

We also like the feeling of being connected to a community ', In our case that means visiting museums, volunteering to help others in our area less fortunate, and having a group of friends we see frequently. When you are a nomad that can't take place.

One thing also as we age we don't want to be confined to a boat. I wouldn't want to have to recuperate from an illness or injury in 40 ft of space. I enjoy see flowers, animals and mountains as much as I do the water.

Understand I have a huge respect for those who chose the cruising lifestyle. I have a number of friends who choose that. It makes up a certain minority of the sailing community . just like the racers. I don't want to give the impression that I am against that lifestyle. Everyone has to choose what's best for them as well as there position in life.

My friends who are cruisers have great stories and positive statements about the areas they have visited and pick out the positive aspects of where ever they go. Most are very measured about making negative judgements of the areas they visit as they recognize they viewca limited picture. Some of my cruising friends however stay long periods of time places and are not constantly on the move.

We look forward to retiring and utilizing our boat more. We look forward to staying here on the Chesapeake taking longer than a weekend. To satisfy our itch of sailing in different places we will continue to charter in the Carribean, San Juan's and So Cal. I'd like to even do the Med at some point.

I hope your continued cruise north brings you smooth seas and fair winds. If you should stop back through the Chessie 
I'll buy the first beer/ wine . ( as long as I talk its not whine) ??????


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I've done Hells Gate much more than once (and a couple of other "hells gate" around in other States). It was no big deal any of those times because I PLANNED it that way!!! I don't normally feel bad for people who don't plan correctly for things they can control. Just like I don't feel bad for myself about how I took more than one beating going into a river during max ebb when the wind was blowing into it, before I learned it was better to float offshore and wait!


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