# Beneteau vs. Yanmar – Green vs. Red Cooling Fluid



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

OK so here we go… I have a 2008 Beneteau 40. I had a simple engine warranty problem (hard start). The Yanmar service center that performed the repair found that the dealer had forgotten to register the warranty. Due to this a re-commissioning had to be performed prior to fixing the hard start problem in order to get the engine properly into warranty. 

One of the (many) things found during the re-com was an issue with the cooling fluid. If anyone has information about this I’d be thankful. Beneteau has filled up green cooling fluid in pretty much all of their Yanmar engines. I have in writing from Yanmar that this voids any and all warranties for the cooling system of the engine since the green cooling fluid allegedly corrodes the aluminum parts. Needless to say the green and the by Yanmar recommended red fluid don’t mix so the system needs to be properly flushed. This was something I had to do in order to get the engine warranty registered during the re-commissioning. Has anyone heard about this before? Will Beneteau use their size against (quite sizeable) Yanmar when (if Yanmar is correct) the engines start to corrode in all those boats that haven’t changed cooling fluid? Beneteau states the green is fine. Yanmar states that you are out of warranty if using green… Anyone that has more information?

And of course… don’t necessary trust that your engine is registered with Yanmar just because you have a document from your dealer stating so. My dealership remembered to give me the document but forgot to register the engine… And without registration the warranty is invalid.. If the engine is registered you can punch in the serial on Yanmar’s site and check the warranty status.


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## mrwuffles (Sep 9, 2008)

Use the red, if you ever overheat with the green it will ruin your engine.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

mrwuffles said:


> Use the red, if you ever overheat with the green it will ruin your engine.


Thanks. That was news to me. As it has been explained to me previously it has been all about corrosion. This makes it even stranger that Beneteau uses the green cooling fluid (never mind voiding the warranty)


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

My Beneteau came with RED! I think you have a dealer problem not a Beneteau problem.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

bubb2 said:


> My Beneteau came with RED! I think you have a dealer problem not a Beneteau problem.


Bubb2,
Yes indeed I have a dealer problem. You can say that again. That is the reason I took the boat out of the dealer yard and into a certified Yanmar center for this work. But the Beneteau dealer claims that the engine came filled with green from Beneteau. I have spoken to Beneteau and they claim green is fine (but not explicitly that they filled up with green). Do you happen to know if your dealer or Beneteau filled up the cooling fluid? How old is your boat? I would be thankful for as much information as possible. It has certainly been expensive for me to get the engine into warranty. This on a new boat.


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

I don't know who filled it, but mine is a 2gm20f model Yanmar. When the boat was delivered to us (new) it had red/pink antifreeze. I hope this helps.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Can you..*



mrwuffles said:


> Use the red, if you ever overheat with the green it will ruin your engine.


Can you please quote us some sources for this statement??

After just having been though the Dex-Cool (AKA Death Cool) fiasco on my own engine I have switched back to green but this is VERY labor intensive. I would welcome any source you have for your statement above that green antifreeze will ruin your engine in an over heat.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

bubb2 said:


> I don't know who filled it, but mine is a 2gm20f model Yanmar. When the boat was delivered to us (new) it had red/pink antifreeze. I hope this helps.


Thanks -But just to be clear, it's not the antifreeze in the cooling system you are using pretty much every winter (raw water intake) that I'm referring to but rather the cooling fluid within the engine. 
You shouldn't really have to replace the cooling fluid but just top it up probably every second year or so.

If your answer was regarding the cooling fluid rather than the antifreeze in the raw water circuit then it helped. But in any case I thank you for taking the time to read. Please let me know which it is.


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

Yes we are talking the same thing. The cooling system, The stuff in the (little plastic bottle with the fill line) in the reserve bottle. Not the winter stuff you pour down the drains.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

bubb2 said:


> Yes we are talking the same thing. The cooling system, The stuff in the (little plastic bottle with the fill line) in the reserve bottle. Not the winter stuff you pour down the drains.


Beautiful. Perfect. Thank you. What year was your Benne delivered? Dare I ask what dealership you are using?


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

2000, when we bought the boat. We bought the boat from Great Hudson sailing. They have a rigger/mechanic/know every thing guy on staff. His name is Bill and we have been happy all of our dealings with them.

I am posting a link to another sailing board that has the same discussion going on. Please read post #3.
Red / Green cooling liquid - Anything Sailing Forums


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

bubb2 said:


> 2000, when we bought the boat. We bought the boat from Great Hudson sailing. They have a rigger/mechanic/know every thing guy on staff. His name is Bill and we have been happy all of our dealings with them.
> 
> I am posting a link to another sailing board that has the same discussion going on. Please read post #3.
> Red / Green cooling liquid - Anything Sailing Forums


Bubb2,
Great link. Post 3 is good. Someone that isn't as junior here as I may dare to do some copy and paste. However; the link doesn't speak so much to if green is bad for the engine. Just that Red and (now orange  ) is quite good if you have aluminum within the block. I'd still like more undisputable evidence about what to use with a Yanmar engine. Does green make it corrode?


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

I am no mechanic I done what I could. I would say that the owner"s manual would be last word on the subject.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

bubb2 said:


> I am no mechanic I done what I could. I would say that the owner"s manual would be last word on the subject.


Yes and I thank you. The problem I have is that the manual (Yanmar) states red. The boat was filled up with green. The information I currently have from Beneteau suggests that green is OK. Combine this with the fact that the warranty is void according to Yanmar if you are using green and you see my dilemma.


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

I see the dilemma, but Beneteau is not going to warrant the engine and Beneteau did not build the engine. Who are they to tell you what is OK to use in the engine. If Yanmar is not going to warrant the engine do to the actions (get it in writing) of Beneteau, then I would ask Beneteau to put in a Engine That Yanmar will warrant. Have you spoken to Beneteau USA I mean the factory and just not the dealer?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

bubb2 said:


> I see the dilemma, but Beneteau is not going to warrant the engine and Beneteau did not build the engine. Who are they to tell you what is OK to use in the engine. If Yanmar is not going to warrant the engine do to the actions (get it in writing) of Beneteau, then I would ask Beneteau to put in a Engine That Yanmar will warrant. Have you spoken to Beneteau USA I mean the factory and just not the dealer?


Well we are getting close to the core of the problem. First off I need to know if it is my dealership that have used a cooling fluid that voids the Yanmar warranty or if it is Beneteau. In the former case the only potential dispute is btw me and the dealership about payments for the flush and change to red cooling fluid.
In the latter case however, If Beneteau have decided that it's worth it for them to fill up green in all their engines and then step in and negotiate with Yanmar should there be warranty issues it's a different matter. After all Beneteau is a big boat builder. In this case I'm probably on my own in terms of the cost for getting my engine back into "proper" warranty with red cooling fluid.
I have a verbal statement from Beneteau US that Green is fine. I have a so far unanswered email into Beneteau US about the issue. I have a written statement from Yanmar that green voids the warranty. I hope to have more information after Easter.
So; It would obviously be great for me to learn if there are other Bennes out there with green cooling fluid.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

If you google Dex-Cool, you'll see that Dex-Cool has a series of class action lawsuits against them or involving them and a host of serious problems that are allegedly caused by the coolant. 

IIRC, Maine Sail is flushing his engine's cooling system and switching back to regular coolant as part of the well-documented engine re-build he has posted about on the various sailing forums.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Relying on anti-freeze colour alone to determine it's properties is tricky. READ THE LABELS. OAT "long-life" anti-freeze (Dex-cool, for example) reacts with green anti-freeze, and depending upon which source you believe, will either cause a sludging effect or simply shorten the longevity (the manufacturers' opinion).

Here's a good chart with a breakdown of what is in what:

http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/Coolants_matrix.pdf


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

I heard Muti-hull guys use green in the starboard engine and red in port engine.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*More information, Please.*



bljones said:


> Relying on anti-freeze colour alone to determine it's properties is tricky. READ THE LABELS. OAT "long-life" anti-freeze (Dex-cool, for example) reacts with green anti-freeze, and depending upon which source you believe, will either cause a sludging effect or simply shorten the longevity (the manufacturers' opinion).
> 
> Here's a good chart with a breakdown of what is in what:
> 
> http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/Coolants_matrix.pdf


As BLjones stated - and he is dead-on - color doesn't tell us anything anymore. We need to know what the underlying chemistry is. A spec sheet will give clues. An MSDS will give clues. I make a part of my living developing engine coolant formulation - have for the past 15 years. Most are fine and seldom is the coolant the real cause. Really serious problems generally have their roots in 1 of 3 places:
* Electrolysis. A wire somewhere it shouldn't be, a loose ground. Standard boat stuff. Remember, coolant is an electrolyte, and when circulating it loves to set up a current, just like a moving wire.
* Exhaust leak. If exhaust is getting into the cooling passages, no coolant can handle the oxygen load. All will start rusting violently.
* Old-school high pH coolant where there is aluminum. Bad. Often old truck AFs fell in this area.

Sailingdog is correct about Dex-cool. Actually, it was a good formulation, as far as their testing went, but it is quite incompatible with even small amounts of dirt or other coolants... which makes it a poor formulation of course. They should have tested these scenarios, but they relied on pure lab data and "clean" test fleets. No real-word testing. I remember an experience with dirt early in the "long-life" development process in my lab; we had a new ingredient that was just great in every way and cheap too. On one set of trials I used some old dirty test coupons, just to see how it worked on existing surfaces rather than perfect lab samples. Total failure. The additive treated the dirt and the metal got holes. You have to test in the real world.

It is not just about Yanmar specs either; the whole design, including heat exchanger and pump, are critical. But often the boat installers are not savvy in this area. They just don't know.

The best bet these days, unless you are sure it has always had one type of factory fill, is one of the "hybrid" types that claim to mix with anything. I do not intend to name names, but the larger brands have tested many combination by now, and they are formulated to be flexible.

The real exception to this generality is a large heavy-duty diesel with wet-sleave liners (not Yanmar - truck engines and the like). These engines have special needs and are well served by heavy duty NOAT products by Penray, Fleet Guard and others.


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## Noelex (Jan 23, 2008)

I recently fitted a new Yanmar engine.
The handbook strongly recommended 2 specific red coolants, and stated the warranty was invalid IN AMERICA ONLY if any other antifreeze was used. I had lot of difficulty sourcing the correct coolant in Greece (which I eventually located). All Yanmar dealers assured me all they ever used was green. I have seen a number of newish Yanmar engines all with green coolant (one was a new Jeanneau)


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## SailMass (Apr 11, 2009)

I used to work for a Beneteau and Jenneau dealer. All the boats came with green antifreeze. But since moving on, I have realized that green will void the warranty of the engine. 
Im not an engine mechanic, but I know the basics. All other builders, ex. Island Packet, Catalina, Sabre etc, that have come from the factory have come with the red antifreeze


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## mrwuffles (Sep 9, 2008)

Maine Sail said:


> Can you please quote us some sources for this statement??
> 
> After just having been though the Dex-Cool (AKA Death Cool) fiasco on my own engine I have switched back to green but this is VERY labor intensive. I would welcome any source you have for your statement above that green antifreeze will ruin your engine in an over heat.


I do not have the book right in front of me but at the Mack boring diesel class we were specifically told Do Not use green only red or pink because if it is overheated the antifreeze will break down and one of the chemicals will build up within your engine.


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## SailMass (Apr 11, 2009)

I can get you the email from Yanmar, but green does void the warranty on the engine, the green breaks down the metal in the motor, and builds up slime in the heat exchanger


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

OK..I have a question, please..for the coolant experts.

I have a Yanmar 3jh4E on my boat. The coolant that came with the engine in separate boxes, (the engine obviously was shipped dry), is Havoline, in a black bottle, I believe its that DEx Cool thing.

Mine is orange in color..I am confused now, but my friend (who happens to be the Yanmar dealer), said that he could put any coolant I want if that is what I wanted..

I gathered my coolant is the bad one?

What coolant do you guys recommend?? 

Thank you

Alex


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*It is important to note that the Mack class was not talking about Dexcool.*



mrwuffles said:


> I do not have the book right in front of me but at the Mack boring diesel class we were specifically told Do Not use green only red or pink because if it is overheated the antifreeze will break down and one of the chemicals will build up within your engine.


Dexcool is a light-duty auto formula and would never be specified for a heavy duty truck - cylinder liner and injector seal problems would follow. They were most likely referring to either Fleet Guard, Penray 2798N, or Old World Final Charge, although there are some others too.

At the same time these products might not be the best choice for some light duty applications - one size does not fit all.

I believe this is the spec sheet for the red Yanmar coolant in question:http://www.yanmar.com/file.asp?F=03...DB3CB.pdf&N=YG30+Spec+Sheet.pdf&C=store_items
It appears to be a relatively ordinary light-duty (not truck) long-life formula that should be compatible with all of the new "universal" coolants. Like all of the new generation, it is based on carboxylic acid chemistry and contains no phosphoric acid. Of course, phosphate-containing formulations are scarce as hen's teeth in the US, anyway. The tests are all common automotive tests and the results are in the ordinary range for this class of product.

This IS NOT Dex-cool. The specifications are quite different in the details. Whether a specific dealer used Dex-cool? Who can say.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

There are a number of different "red" or "orange" ethylene glycol based antifreeze products on the market, DexCool being just one. Each is a different formulation but basically similar in content.
If you are that concerned about which is preferable, go with the traditional green glycol. It really doesn't matter - neither will destroy a PROPERLY maintained engine which has not been overheated.
If you routinely change the antifreeze, any off-the-shelf brand, REGARDLESS OF COLOR, will not destroy an engine - I get sick of some people blowing some complaint into much more than it really is and scaring people about something which is not a problem unless you are careless about the engine in the first place.

Any Class Action suit is just a series of allegations and if you more thoroughly researched the case, one would logically conclude there is sufficient evidence that many of these complainants overheated or otherwise mis-treated their engines such that definitive linking of engine problems to any specific antifreeze is dubious. 

If an engine mfg claims they will not honor a warranty unless you use a certain antifreeze, it is a no-brainer what you should use.

If your mfg makes no such stipulation, just make sure you thoroughly flush the old before replacing it with a different colored antifreeze as some do not mix well.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

k1vsk said:


> If an engine mfg claims they will not honor a warranty unless you use a certain antifreeze, it is a no-brainer what you should use.


Needless to say I agree with you. It's a no brainer. You want the warranty. But as you saw in my original post I'm baffled about the fact that plenty of production boats come from the factory with a coolant that voids the warranty and that I had to flush and replace in order to get the engine into warranty on a new boat. My intention when starting the thread was to gain some knowledge around that as well as about the fluids. But the new-boat-warranty-issue was maybe lost in some sort of red/orange/green soup.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

Swesail said:


> Needless to say I agree with you. It's a no brainer. You want the warranty. But as you saw in my original post I'm baffled about the fact that plenty of production boats come from the factory with a coolant that voids the warranty and that I had to flush and replace in order to get the engine into warranty on a new boat. My intention when starting the thread was to gain some knowledge around that as well as about the fluids. But the new-boat-warranty-issue was maybe lost in some sort of red/orange/green soup.


Many mfgs send their boats for commissioning dry in which case the yard you choose to do the work is responsible for such decisions and you, in turn, are responsible for the choice of yard. If the boat was in fact shipped dry for commissioning, you should reasonably expect the yard to make the proper decision(s) and have a cause for action against them if not.


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## jason3317 (Dec 20, 2007)

MainSail wrote: when and if you do convert away from Death-Cool you MUST do a complete system flush, with a product like Rydlime, followed by a neutralizer, then a flush with distilled water then the new antifreeze.

OOOPS. I changed my coolant this fall as part of fall decommissioning. I drained the existing (red) coolant, flushed with water, ran a 'Zerex Flush' product through the system and then flushed again 2x with water.

I then used Zerex 50/50 predilluted ethelyne glycol coolant (green).

Did I totally screw this up. I didn't know about the flush with Rydlyme + Neutralizer step?


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## endeavour33 (Jan 5, 2008)

All diesel engines should use DIESEL ANTIFREEZE (which is pink NOT TO BEE CONFUSED with plumbing antifreeze, which is also pink)
any auto supply which carries diesel supplies will have it , it is about chemical compatiblilty , aluminum parts and corrosion !
P.S. it is only a buck or two more at any automotive outlet, be sure that is is designed for diesels


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## US27inKS (Feb 6, 2005)

Giulietta said:


> OK..I have a question, please..for the coolant experts.
> 
> I have a Yanmar 3jh4E on my boat. The coolant that came with the engine in separate boxes, (the engine obviously was shipped dry), is Havoline, in a black bottle, I believe its that DEx Cool thing.
> 
> ...


Since my boat has an outboard, my marine experience with coolant is zero. I do own an auto shop though, so I know a little about coolant. The orange dex-cool antifreeze is a problem in many engines. Engines that were designed before dex-cool was introduced seem to have the most problems. Most problems seem to be with rubber parts; the water pump seals, intake manifold gaskets etc. Cooling system sludge is another big problem for some vehicles. You don't have to mix other types of antifreeze into dex-cool for it to sludge your radiator.

I would recommend that anyone with dex-cool change it for green.

Red antifreeze is another story. Toyota has used red for years, and it's a very good antifreeze. Don't mix anything with it. For those of you looking for red, check the MSDS on Toyota antifreeze and whatever brand you're trying to duplicate to make sure it's a match.

Pink antifreeze can generally be found in Volkswagen and Audi vehicles. Good stuff as well.

There's also gold, blue and purple but I haven't seen those mentioned yet.


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## Skipaway (Jun 2, 2008)

*Claims?*

I have a jug of "Prestone Extended Life" which claims: All Makes, All Models
Mix with ANY color antifreeze; compatible with ANY coolant ... in ANY.. automobile or light duty truck...

There is no mention of phosphates or silica on the label or ingredients list. I haven't opened it yet so I don't know what color it is.

Should we believe the claims?

(Should I go ahead and use it? I have a Yanmar 2GM20F diesel.)


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

Let's start at the beginning: What the heck dooes this mean?!?!?!?



Swesail said:


> Thanks -But just to be clear, it's not the antifreeze in the cooling system you are using pretty much every winter (raw water intake) that I'm referring to but rather the cooling fluid within the engine.


Not the antifreeze in the (raw water) cooling system but the cooling fluid within the engine??? This is gobbledegook. What are you people talking about?



Swesail said:


> If your answer was regarding the cooling fluid rather than the antifreeze in the raw water circuit then it helped. But in any case I thank you for taking the time to read. Please let me know which it is.


Huh?? You use anti-freeze in your raw water? You must go through quite a bit. How do we end up debating six different chemical make-ups and ten different colours of anti-freeze based on statements like this.

I find myself mildly disappointed that someone never tried to answer the last request.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Omatako said:


> Huh?? You use anti-freeze in your raw water? You must go through quite a bit. How do we end up debating six different chemical make-ups and ten different colours of anti-freeze based on statements like this.
> 
> I find myself mildly disappointed that someone never tried to answer the last request.


Believe he's talking about the pink non-toxic antifreeze used for winterizing a boat's raw water cooling system.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

jason3317 said:


> MainSail wrote: when and if you do convert away from Death-Cool you MUST do a complete system flush, with a product like Rydlime, followed by a neutralizer, then a flush with distilled water then the new antifreeze.
> 
> OOOPS. I changed my coolant this fall as part of fall decommissioning. I drained the existing (red) coolant, flushed with water, ran a 'Zerex Flush' product through the system and then flushed again 2x with water.
> 
> ...


You don't need to be that anal about it - as long as you thoroughly flushed the entire system observing the color of the final flush water and it is clear, you will be fine. Some chemicals used for flushing also remove mineral deposits which is all well and good, Rydlime being one, but let's not overly complicate a simple task as removing incompatible antifreeze with removing deposits.


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## lancelot9898 (Dec 30, 2008)

*Heavy Duty Antifreeze*



endeavour33 said:


> All diesel engines should use DIESEL ANTIFREEZE (which is pink NOT TO BEE CONFUSED with plumbing antifreeze, which is also pink)
> any auto supply which carries diesel supplies will have it , it is about chemical compatiblilty , aluminum parts and corrosion !
> P.S. it is only a buck or two more at any automotive outlet, be sure that is is designed for diesels


I agree. For over 20 years I've used the Prestone green antifreeze in my Perkins 4-108. I've routinely changed out the antifreeze and cleaned the heat exchanger over time without any problems. However this winter when talking to a diesel mechanic, he stated that diesels should be using a heavy duty antifreeze vs the type I'ld been using. If I remember right it had to do with cylinder liners and potential problems. I ended up switching to the Prestone Heavy duty( not extended life) after a good flushing of the coolant system. After reading some more about the Perkins 4-108, I decided that the Perkin's cylinder liners in the 4-108 were not subject to the problem(can't remember why), but was happy that I changed out to the heavy duty coolant anyway.


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## US27inKS (Feb 6, 2005)

Skipaway said:


> I have a jug of "Prestone Extended Life" which claims: All Makes, All Models
> Mix with ANY color antifreeze; compatible with ANY coolant ... in ANY.. automobile or light duty truck...
> 
> There is no mention of phosphates or silica on the label or ingredients list. I haven't opened it yet so I don't know what color it is.
> ...


I use the universal stuff on occasion, but generally I stick with the formula (and color) it's supposed to have, with the exception of orange dex-cool. I get rid of dex-cool on most vehicles.


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