# Tall Ship Concordia sinks



## redstripesailor

I just heard a report that the 188' Canadian tall ship Concordia sank off of Brazil today. Apparently there was no loss of life and the crew and students were in three lifeboats that were picked up by two merchant vessels. There's not really much info on the sinking yet. If y'all hear stuff, post it! 

Having worked in the Tall Ship industry for a number of years I know this boat well; she's pretty new, well built and run by a good crew. This is going to be a big blow to the industry.


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## n0w0rries

Canadian school ship sinks off Brazil; all rescued - Yahoo! News

RIO DE JANEIRO - A Canadian sailing ship filled with high school and college students sank off the coast of Brazil in strong winds, but officials said all 64 people aboard were rescued Friday after about 16 hours in rafts tossed by rough seas.

A distress signal was picked up from the three-masted SV Concordia about 5 p.m. Thursday, the Brazilian Navy said in a statement, and a Brazilian Air Force plane later spotted life rafts in about 300 miles (500 kilometers) off the coast of Rio de Janeiro.

Forty-eight students - in grades 11, 12 and university freshmen - were aboard the vessel, said Kate Knight, head of West Island College International of Lunenburg, Nova Scotia, which operates the Class Afloat program.

Edgardo Ybranez, captain of the Philippine flagged Hokuetsu Delight cargo ship, told The Associated Press via satellite phone that his ship rescued 44 of the victims in rough, dangerous seas. The remaining people were picked up by another ship.

Ybranez said the Concordia's doctor had suffered an injury before the rescue, "but he is OK now." He gave no more details.

All the rest were unhurt, Ybranez said: "You can tell their parents that everything is OK; everybody aboard my ship is fine."

The captain declined to put one of the survivors on the telephone. "They are all downstairs sleeping because they are exhausted, so I don't want to call any of them up," he said before cutting off the call to communicate with his employers.

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper issued a statement thanking the Brazilian Navy and the merchant crews "for their swift and heroic response."

"The skill and compassion demonstrated by Brazilian rescuers is a tribute to their training, spirit and seamanship," he said.

School officials said 42 of those aboard were from Canada. Knight said others hail from the United States, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, Europe and the West Indies.

"At this point we can't confirm at all what circumstances led them to abandon ship, or the status of the vessel," she said.

The Brazilian Navy, however, said the ship sank. Juan Cruz Margarita, captain of the SE Stao Knutsen that assisted in the rescue operation, told the AP via satellite phone he saw no sign of the Canadian ship by the time his vessel arrived.

Navy spokeswoman Maria Padilha said the students spent up to 16 hours on life rafts before they were rescued between 4 a.m. and 9 a.m.

She later said that some of those rescued were transferred to a Brazilian Navy ship late Friday and that the first of two ships carrying the passengers back to Rio was expected to dock around 9 a.m.

Shelley Piller, whose 17-year-old stepdaughter Elysha was on board, told the AP in a telephone interview from Kenilworth, Ontario, that she was worried despite hearing news that everyone was safe.

"That's my kid. For me I need to actually physically see her, feel her and have her in front of me to understand that she's safe," Piller said. "We're petrified, absolutely petrified."

The ship had visited Europe and Africa since leaving Canada in September, and it had just begun a five-month semester program on leaving Recife in Brazil's northeast Feb. 8. It was scheduled to dock Tuesday in Montevideo, Uruguay, then head to several islands in the Atlantic and to southern Africa and the Caribbean before returning to Canada.

The school's Web site says the 188-foot-long (57.5-meter-long) Concordia was built in 1992 and "meets all of the international requirements for safety." It carries up to 66 passengers and crew and also can operate under motor power.

The college's Web site says it gives high school and college students the chance to study while sailing the world. Tuition is listed as 42,500 Canadian dollars ($40,600) a year.


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## sailingdog

Do you have any details on what happened to the boat?


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## Architeuthis

Was it well built? I mean a ship shouldn't sink just because it was knocked down a couple times.


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## poopdeckpappy

Wow, Albatross revisited


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## redstripesailor

Not quite Albatross, nobody died here. 

Yes, the boat was well built. She was only built in 1992 and she met all the international standards required to take students to sea.


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## Allanbc

A couple of years ago, the Admiral and I talked about trying to get jobs teaching on this ship.


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## petertribo

This ship was based in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia, Canada where the onshore classes were held. It should be noted that Lunenburg is also home to the Picton Castle on which a a tragic death occurred in 2006.

Laura Gainey swept into the Atlantic : Overboard : the fifth estate : CBC News

That ship also had foreign registry like the Concordia which was registered in Barbados.
Here are two recent articles from the Halifax Chronicle Herald on the Concordia sinking:

Sailing students rescued - Nova Scotia News - TheChronicleHerald.ca
Canadian agency won't play big role in probe - Nova Scotia News - TheChronicleHerald.ca

Note this in the last story:

"Class Afloat did not respond to repeated requests for an interview Friday, but the school's website says the Concordia was inspected by the American and Canadian coast guards and Lloyd's Register of Shipping. It is believed the vessel was last inspected in August. It left Lunenburg on Sept. 7.

*The website says the Concordia conforms to the standards of the Barbados registry and "meets the highest standards for sailing school vessels.""* (My bold.)


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## bljones

A fairly good article here. Ignore the typo in the headline (rescused)

First rescued Canadians dock in Rio - The Globe and Mail


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## PCP

bljones said:


> A fairly good article here. Ignore the typo in the headline (rescused)
> 
> First rescued Canadians dock in Rio - The Globe and Mail


Do you have seen the comment on that article?

*"WHO CARES? A bunch of poor little rich kids got wet. Boo Hoo. Why aren't they in SCHOOL where they belong?"*

At least those kids were not being raised as rich spoiled kids. On the article one of the kids says:

"one student recounted earlier this month in a post to the web. "It is tiresome, stressful, difficult and unconventional, but it is fulfilling beyond belief."

I am thinking in putting my son aboard a tall ship during summer vacations, the "Sagres", that is cruising around the world. At summer time they are going to cruise US waters.

I Wonder what could have gon so wrong with that ship? I want to know.


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## tomwatt

PCP said:


> Do you have seen the comment on that article?
> 
> *"WHO CARES? A bunch of poor little rich kids got wet. Boo Hoo. Why aren't they in SCHOOL where they belong?"*
> 
> At least those kids were not being raised as rich spoiled kids.


Sometimes it really pains me how often petty jealousy seems to drive Internet comments. Now, I will admit that I do find myself jealous of many of the incredibly nice boats folks on here have, but jealous in a want-to-improve my lot way instead of wishing ill on others. It just seems like a large percentage of the average Internet posters have an axe to grind and take umbrage at anyone else who has "done well". Too bad.

Sorry to see the ship go down, if it really has. And certainly glad that the "kids" are all safe. I can understand any parent being concerned under the circumstances.

Last summer I ran into a lady who was behaving a bit oddly along the shore, while I was out photographing. It turns out that her daughter was aboard the schooner that was passing by the inlet at that point, and the girl had been at sea for some months. Mother was just watching anxiously, to reassure herself that all was well. Told me that her daughter had no idea that she was there onshore, and she wasn't going to contact her or let her know that she'd been watching. Made good sense to me.

My daughter will never know the lengths I went to having various officers in the military keep an eye on her while she was in the Army. Just a parental kind of thing I guess.


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## Architeuthis

As you can tell by the readers the Globe is a very political paper of a certian stripe. 

But none of these reports gives me the kind of details I'm looking for. I guess like the Picton Castle I'll have to wait for those.


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## n0w0rries

You'd think that everybody would want to know what happened. And yet, we don't know what happened.

I say cover up. They hit a chinese sub or something.

Get your tinfoil hat's ready!
How to Make a Tinfoil Hat | eHow.com


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## PCP

n0w0rries said:


> You'd think that everybody would want to know what happened. And yet, we don't know what happened.


It seems that the boat capsized in high seas:

"Reports from the Brazilian navy said they were told by the Concordia crew that their ship capsized in rough and high seas."

SV Concordia

SAILORS, MARINERS & WARRIORS LEAGUE: Canadian Tall Ship Sinks In The South Atlantic


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## Jim H

Possibly a bit more information:

Rescued Canadians back on dry land | World | News | Toronto Sun

Curry is the captain of the vessel:

Curry said he and the Concordia's crew had prepared a day beforehand for what they anticipated would be rough but not unusual weather. He was below deck when the ship suddenly keeled - which was normal. It was when it keeled a second time that he knew the vessel was in great danger.

The captain blamed the wreck on a "microburst," a sudden, vertical downdraft. When the vessel keeled, the entire surface area of the sails was exposed to the powerful wind, and within 15 seconds, the boat went from sailing normally, upright, to lying on its side and beginning to sink. Thirty minutes later it was completely underwater, Curry said.

"The boat started keeling a lot," Unsworth said. "It came back up, keeled again, was basically lying on its side and all the windows began to break. That's when we knew it was time to flee."​
I might also think he said heeling and not keeling?


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## n0w0rries

Ok students. POP QUIZ! You're entire grade for the year will be based on how you answer the following question:
You need to abandon ship. What do you bring with you? Please show your work.


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## PCP

Thanks Jim,

that seems to explain the accident.

There is something that we should credit to the Capitan: in a capsized boat with 
heavy seas, all men were rescued...and it was a lot of people.

I am impressed!

Listen to what Ruth O'Kelly-Lynch says about it:

"The year I spent aboard was the most important year of my life and shaped who I am now. While we do not yet know what happened aboard I think it is important for people realise the fact that 64 people survived a capsized ship and 18 hours in a life raft is a testament to the programme's safety precautions.

While aboard I sailed around cape horn the worst sailing route in the world. "We went through so many drills that I still remember my jobs and where I was expected to go nine years latter. The fact that everyone is unharmed today illustrates that the Concordia still holds safety first as paramount."

SAILORS, MARINERS & WARRIORS LEAGUE: Canadian Tall Ship Sinks In The South Atlantic


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## bljones

The Toronto Sun article prompts more questions than it answers. How much sail did she have rigged? Were there no radios in the lifeboats?


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## tomwatt

ABC just covered this in nightly news... emergency beacons in lifeboat/rafts guided the rescue effort to the site (doesn't say how long it took). Typical network coverage was how the survivors "felt" instead of what happened. At least there is coverage.


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## rikhall

Ahoy

I think it is a pretty good indication of the training the students had for them to have the ship knocked down, have them get into survival suits, deploy life rafts, board life rafts and stick together in big enough seas, and for all to be safely rescued. All within 30 minutes!

Well done all.

(I know recreational sailors pay big bucks to learn ocean resuce and to be dumped into cold water in their PFDs and survival suits)

Kudos to the Brazilian navy and rescue personnel as well. I know our Canadian Coast Guard is good stuff, as is your USCG. We forget that others also live in countries that boarder oceans and also have been rescuing mariners for centuries.

Rik


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## Architeuthis

Jim H said:


> Curry said he and the Concordia's crew had prepared a day beforehand for what they anticipated would be rough but not unusual weather. He was below deck when the ship suddenly keeled - which was normal. It was when it keeled a second time that he knew the vessel was in great danger.
> 
> The captain blamed the wreck on a "microburst," a sudden, vertical downdraft. When the vessel keeled, the entire surface area of the sails was exposed to the powerful wind, and within 15 seconds, the boat went from sailing normally, upright, to lying on its side and beginning to sink. Thirty minutes later it was completely underwater, Curry said.
> 
> "The boat started keeling a lot," Unsworth said. "It came back up, keeled again, was basically lying on its side and all the windows began to break. That's when we knew it was time to flee."​
> I might also think he said heeling and not keeling?


That suggests our tax money was not well spent (I'm thinking or maybe just feeling tax money was part of this boat). I've been knocked down in similar situation and if the boat had broke yeah we would have sunk.

Shouldn't all sail boats be built to handle a simple knock down?


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## TSOJOURNER

*Not all are rich kids*

Class Afloat accepted my daugter on scholarship. She's a great student, an excellent mariner, and from a single parent lower income family. Many of her classmates/crewmates are from very modest income families who gave their all to help their kids have this amazing experience at sea.

The school taught safety and my daughter continues to speak about safety harnesses, drills, and immersion suits.

After graduating, my daughter had traveled nearly 25000 nautical miles, went on to study marine architecture and naval engineering, and she became a USCG licensed captain at the ripe old age of 21. She was hired on to captain a 100 passenger ferry boat off the coast of North Carolina.

Concordia was about work and training and making responsible mariners.


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## nemier

Without the benefit of more information, I personally think Cudo's go to the Concordia's Captain and onshore management. All souls saved. What more testimony towards seamanship and professionalism can you ask for?
Until we hear the final report, Well done to the Condordia captain, crew and onshore management.


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## redstripesailor

I agree with nemier's post above. Microbursts are scary stuff. Just about every tall ship to sink within the past 40 years has done so as a result of similar weather phenomenon. Heck, just three years ago Pride II, Gorch Fock and half the tall ship fleet suffered a knock down in a microburst during a race in New England. They all recovered because the burst was short and the seas were calm, but still several people were injured and some of the boats suffered some damage.


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## PCP

Architeuthis said:


> I've been knocked down in similar situation and if the boat had broke yeah we would have sunk.
> 
> Shouldn't all sail boats be built to handle a simple knock down?


Small sailingboats normally have a bigger AVS because the risk of capsizing is greater.

Tallships, at least traditional old ones, will have an AVS that will not permit them to recover from a full capsize. The risk is not so big because the force needed to capsize such a boat is a huge one.

Remember "Pride of Baltimore".

Agency Reports Gust of Wind Caused Clipper Ship to Sink - NYTimes.com

Regards

Paulo


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## Architeuthis

PCP said:


> Tallships, at least traditional old ones, will have an AVS that will not permit them to recover from a full capsize. The risk is not so big because the force needed to capsize such a boat is a huge one.[/URL]


Interesting and proof that larger vessels are not always safer.

Clearly risk is not the deciding factor, it is cost. or the gamble that money saved will not result in all money lost. The industry appears to accept the fact that larger sailing vessels will just be lost, with or without crew, if they run into unexpected high winds or if too much sail is carried in a storm or if a large wave lands on deck. It makes sense because large boats need large windows and those would be very expensive if they had to handle the same forces a smaller window can. Not sure I like that though.

On a smaller boat we do not accept such things because they happen more often and we, some of us, are willing to pay to survive such things. So we have portlights and hatches that can be submerged without breaking even leaking (no windows leaked when we were knocked down).

Which is comforting when the boat is lying on its side, the cockit is full of water, and you are half swimming while all hell breaks loose. So comforting that I think I'll just stick with small boats (like I could afford a large one, LOL).


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## TSOJOURNER

*Concordia Sinking and Rescue Timeline*

Timeline of the rescue of passengers aboard tall ship Concordia
Calgary HeraldFebruary 21, 2010

Wednesday, Feb. 17

2:30 p.m.

A distress signal goes out from the Concordia

9 p.m.

Brazilian navy receives alert.

Navy officials spend 18 hours confirming what ship sent the signal, whose flag it was under. Confirms location, attempts radio contact with the Concordia. Contacts the school -- is informed the last contact with the ship did not indicate any problem.

Thursday, Feb. 18

2:30 p.m.

Brazilian navy asks air force to do a flyover of the area and alerts merchant ships in the region. Stormy seas prevail.

5 p.m. Brazilian air force spots lifeboats.

9 p.m.

Merchant ships Crystal Pioneer and Hokuetsu Delight told to go to location. Stormy seas, bad weather continue.

Frida y, Feb. 19

4 a.m.

Crystal Pioneer spots lifeboats -- due to darkness and high seas, waits to pluck the survivors to safety.

7 a.m. The relieved passengers start boarding the Crystal Pioneer and Hokuetsu Delight.

9 a.M.

Last lifeboat located, passengers transferred to Hokuetsu Delight.

Sat . Feb. 20

All 64 students, teachers and crew arrive safely in Rio de Janeiro

Sources: Nigel McCarthy and The Brazilian Navy

*What I want to know is why it took 6 1/2 hours for the signal to get to the authorities. Also, I read one newspaper report that a crew member spotted the EPIRB and jumped out of the life raft, retreived and activated it. I want to know more about this "signal" and that lag in time.

ALso, the captain had to cut the life boats out of their entanglement in the ships lines. Some of the lifeboat canisters were underwater and it sounds like they didn't deploy. *


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## WanderingStar

This event should be different than the loss of the Pride of Baltimore. She (Pride) was an attempt at an historically accurate replica. The Concordia was a modern vessel that should have had sufficient watertight integrity and bouyancy to remain afloat on her side. Either the hatches weren't secure or something (windows?) failed allowing progressive flooding.


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## petertribo

From the NYT story on the sinking of the Pride Of Baltimore:

*"It also faulted the vessel's designer for failing to build modern safety design features that would have made the ship more resistant to sinking."*

The Concordia, registered in Barbados but based in Canada, was a modern vessel purpose built for a sailing school. So, microbursts should have been included as a design consideration.

Among the reports in newspaper articles so far:

1. "windows" breaking.
2. Known weather disturbance, yet sail is up. (Presumably, microburst hazard is also known.)
3. Radio communication knocked out by water intrusion. Poor design. Where is backup? This also may indicate bilge pumps (assuming multiples) and all electrics knocked out.

Going from the above reports alone: windows break, electrics knocked out, no pumps, ballgame over.

The question then becomes, like it was with the Picton Castle (registered in Cook Islands), will the Foreign Registrar of this vessel do a rigorous and thorough investigation? Here is what happened with the Picton Castle investigation:

"An investigation was undertaken by the Cook Islands, where the ship is registered. [6] [7] [8] [9]

A recent investigation titled "Overboard" by the CBC program the fifth estate claims to have uncovered serious safety problems with the ship. [10] On November 18, 2007 the Transportation Safety Board of Canada decided to undertake an independent investigation of the event. The completed report, M06F0024 Crew Member Lost Overboard, Sail Training Vessel Picton Castle, 376 nm SSE of Lunenburg, Nova Scotia is available on the TSB website."

Picton Castle (ship) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, in 2006 and in 2010, two Tall Ships sailing out of Canada are involved in tragedies. The investigation of the Picton Castle was inadequate. Will the same be true for the Concordia?


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## Architeuthis

petertribo said:


> So, in 2006 and in 2010, two Tall Ships sailing out of Canada are involved in tragedies. The investigation of the Picton Castle was inadequate. Will the same be true for the Concordia?


Likely.

I do not know but this boat has the smell of my money all over it and as such it is not in the interest of the government to draw too much attention to it.

In fact I bet most everyone connected with this boat would prefer it not be looked at too closely.

Which is fine but as I pointed out one of those parties are responsible for the investigation. A wee bit of a conflict there.

It should be investigated, the money spent should be explained....then again if this is a private boat with not a dime of tax money then I'm OK with them building it almost anyway they want, provided of course minimums were met.


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## petertribo

This story from the Globe and Mail questions the microburst theory of the Concordia sinking (my bold):

"Why did Concordia, a modern, recently-inspected vessel, sink? Worse, why did it sink so fast that a ship equipped with the most modern communications equipment, including satellite telephones, failed to radio a distress call?

Modern, steel-hulled, recently inspected ships - even tall ships that evoke an earlier era - aren't supposed to fall over and sink in bad (but not very bad) weather.

*Maritime disaster investigators from Barbados - the tiny Caribbean country where the sailing vessel, like thousands of others are registered to avoid the big expenses and tougher rules of countries like Canada - will lead the probe into the sinking.*

The questions will be as complicated as evaluating the Concordia's stability, or as simple as why a satellite telephone wasn't in one of the life rafts.

*That everyone on board survived still leaves questions unanswered, including why the captain and crew failed to send distress signals; whether the 60-metre-long vessel was properly secured for sailing into a storm and whether it was really struck - as the captain suggested - by a "microburst," an exceedingly rare blast of wind usually lasting only seconds.

Roger Long, a naval architect and expert on stability in large sailing ships, says microbursts have been blamed before - and wrongly - for design flaws in sailing vessels and suggested that investigators take a careful look at Concordia's stability.
*
Mr. Long was retained as an expert in the inquiries following the sinking of the British sailing school ship Marques in 1984. From a crew of 28, 19 were lost in that disaster, most of them young trainees.

Survivor accounts remain fragmentary, and accident investigators warn it may take months to piece together the sequence that sank the Concordia, apparently in less than 30 minutes.

*However, the scenario that a microburst, a powerful blast of wind radiating outward like an upside-down mushroom cloud, knocked the ship down, flat on its side with its masts lying on the sea surface, already seems at odds with some accounts."*

More at:

Unanswered questions about the sinking - The Globe and Mail

Also this story at:
Survivors of capsized school back in province - Nova Scotia News - TheChronicleHerald.ca
indicates that the vessel was fully insured and that 
"... lights went out and the emergency lights came on. An alarm eventually sounded when the engine started flooding with water."

Reports indicate that the vessel, after the microburst, lay on its side and did not right itself. Was this caused by ballast shifting?


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## TSOJOURNER

*Albotross alright like 48 years later*



poopdeckpappy said:


> Wow, Albatross revisited


Lucky no one was harmed.. Concordia was a good ship, I read a report saying it was keeled over more than usual even before the microburst. The girl from England explained that is when she heard the sail rip. I'm just wondering in such extreme weather with gail force winds, why the captian was in his quarters. most of those kids just started there semester.


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## bljones

Interesting article from the Globe. 
BTW, you might be interested to see what Roger Long REALLY said. Check post #86 here:

Training ship Concordia sinks off Brazil - Page 2 - The WoodenBoat Forum


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## TSOJOURNER

*Picton Castle*

This Picton Castle ship is understanable in the situation that occured last year. On this ship it is hard to determine where everyone is. not only each captains rules are different. On this perticular ship you do not know who is on deck and below deck. you only know who is on watch so if someone falls overboard you do not know because you think they may be below. I have been on all these ships and others as well years ago and I know of a ship that when your on watch , those who are ondeck and going below say there last name and on deck or last name and below so that the watch knows where most ppl are. Especially during foggy periods or bad weather So On the Picton Castle however this girl could have been over board and no one would have known otherwise. They dont have harnesses for in the rigging meaning it is not mandatory. It is difficult to know when you are not on board these ships to see first hand....All I can say is I understand how no one could have noticed this girl over board.. But if you think that becuase both ships come from the same place that it makes the ships regulations not proper than its wrong and that though incidents occur these ships are great ships well built and taken care of. I have been on a ship where i was not on watch and I just happened to look down now it common sense but those on watch were new and I said to myself sand we are not suppost to see sand. I got the captain and he ran fast below. and then there are days yes u have your radar but really how close is that ship that blowing it fog horn through so thick of fog you cant see ur hand in front of you. There are many weather conditions and many stories ppl can explain, that you just cant believe taking place I have many myself and I am sure others do to but no one really knows what will take a ship down , wrong design , wrong move by a person , wrong shift in the sails. 
However if you ever have on opertunity to be on any of them. You have just experienced the best part of your life. *Picton Castle, Concordia, Fair Jeanne , Black Jack....Each with there own movement through the winds and each with there own feel. just know that standing on the yards 90 ft up in full sail with wind in your face nothing but sea, then try and say that these ships are wrong these ships have faults*... *IMPOSIBLE*.... The Concordia willl be sadly missed to all those who sailed her, to each sailor who wittnessed her in full sail, the experiences she brought forth as the wind swept her main sails and nipped at her jibs , she was shear beauty at her best ...always remembered... to all those who sailed her.


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## petertribo

Nigel McCarthy is the President and CEO of Class Afloat. In this article in the Halifax Chronicle Herald today, he indicated this private school might be seeking public support and money. I found this statement very surpising:

*"The Concordia was insured, but McCarthy said he is unsure whether the school has business interruption insurance."*

Class Afloat ponders the future - Nova Scotia News - TheChronicleHerald.ca

For the CEO to not know the status of the school's insurance is pretty amazing, particularly business interruption insurance.


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## carl762

Yes, that sounds very sketchy.

Very said story. Big loss.


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## lkline

petertribo said:


> This story from the Globe and Mail questions the microburst theory of the Concordia sinking (my bold): "Why did Concordia, a modern, recently-inspected vessel, sink? Worse, why did it sink so fast that a ship equipped with the most modern communications equipment, including satellite telephones, failed to radio a distress call? Modern, steel-hulled, recently inspected ships - even tall ships that evoke an earlier era - aren't supposed to fall over and sink in bad (but not very bad) weather. *Maritime disaster investigators from Barbados - the tiny Caribbean country where the sailing vessel, like thousands of others are registered to avoid the big expenses and tougher rules of countries like Canada - will lead the probe into the sinking.* The questions will be as complicated as evaluating the Concordia's stability, or as simple as why a satellite telephone wasn't in one of the life rafts. *That everyone on board survived still leaves questions unanswered, including why the captain and crew failed to send distress signals; whether the 60-metre-long vessel was properly secured for sailing into a storm and whether it was really struck - as the captain suggested - by a "microburst," an exceedingly rare blast of wind usually lasting only seconds. Roger Long, a naval architect and expert on stability in large sailing ships, says microbursts have been blamed before - and wrongly - for design flaws in sailing vessels and suggested that investigators take a careful look at Concordia's stability.* Mr. Long was retained as an expert in the inquiries following the sinking of the British sailing school ship Marques in 1984. From a crew of 28, 19 were lost in that disaster, most of them young trainees. Survivor accounts remain fragmentary, and accident investigators warn it may take months to piece together the sequence that sank the Concordia, apparently in less than 30 minutes. *However, the scenario that a microburst, a powerful blast of wind radiating outward like an upside-down mushroom cloud, knocked the ship down, flat on its side with its masts lying on the sea surface, already seems at odds with some accounts."* More at: Unanswered questions about the sinking - The Globe and Mail Also this story at: Survivors of capsized school back in province - Nova Scotia News - TheChronicleHerald.ca indicates that the vessel was fully insured and that "... lights went out and the emergency lights came on. An alarm eventually sounded when the engine started flooding with water." Reports indicate that the vessel, after the microburst, lay on its side and did not right itself. Was this caused by ballast shifting?


 Since I'm 12 years late in finding these forums, I have a feeling no one here will see this. But as someone who survived that ship sinking and am reminiscing, looking through all the most inaccurate articles and discussions about the subject, this one really gets me. You truly never know unless you were there. All you have is speculation. This was my second consecutive year aboard Concordia. I was having a very normal day in history class in the main superstructure while a storm approached. It was nothing unusual. I was actually jealous I wasn't out on deck with my crewmates maneuvering sails around to prep for it. When I got the first indication something was wrong it happened so suddenly. and within seconds following it felt like we were hit again by another massive gust and kept going down. It was seconds which leaves you no time to make a distress call. And when we abandoned ship and drifted away from what had been my home and refuge, I watched her sit on her side all night. It did not just sink like a rock a mile down. When the sun came up I couldn't see her anymore. I assume the vessel gradually went down over the night but we were also drifting quickly. Everyone's support for how we made it off in such unlikely conditions, thank you. We went through man-over-board and abandon ship drills religiously, practiced putting on immersion suits, waxing the zippers so you can get them on quickly, organizing your watches to get immediate head count and where specifically to locate each other. Where every single life raft was, because we had more than enough. They prepared us and trained us every single day but the funny thing is that you can't run through drills with the ship sideways. Suddenly you have half the resources. So that was the one nuance to our situation and I think we did great. I trusted Concordia, I trust Capt. Curry. I said it when I stepped foot on land in Rio De Janeiro as the media came to us for a harrowing story, I told them if we had another ship ready to go I'd get right back on. What happened was so sudden and crazy and not the fault of our ship or crew. I think the conspiracies of cover up and what not are sad and ridiculous. For any news you consume it's best to check in and remind yourself that yes you are getting a fragmented story, you weren't there and not everyone is up to no good. fair winds, Lily


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## lkline

Architeuthis said:


> That suggests our tax money was not well spent (I'm thinking or maybe just feeling tax money was part of this boat). I've been knocked down in similar situation and if the boat had broke yeah we would have sunk.
> 
> Shouldn't all sail boats be built to handle a simple knock down?





Architeuthis said:


> That suggests our tax money was not well spent (I'm thinking or maybe just feeling tax money was part of this boat). I've been knocked down in similar situation and if the boat had broke yeah we would have sunk.
> 
> Shouldn't all sail boats be built to handle a simple knock down?


tax dollars spent on what? the ship was built in poland anyway. tax dollars for education maybe? when the ship was knocked down all the sails that were up had become filled with water. hard to right itself from there.


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## nolatom

Why, instead of taxing memories from over a decade ago, don't those interested take a look at the Investigation report?

Wind gusts probably didn't exceed 50 knots, but she didn't bear off enough to get the apparent wind aft of abeam in time, and too many lee side openings at deck or cabin level, were left open, so she heeled and flooded progressively to port and capsized.






Marine Investigation Report M10F0003 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada


Knockdown and capsizing, Sail training yacht Concordia, 300 miles SSE off Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, 17 February 2010




www.tsb.gc.ca





But once capsized, the fact that all souls made it out and were saved, is a testament to the crew and all aboard. And to the merchant ships who, as they always do when notified of a distress call, broke passage and rescued all they could.


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## GlanRock

lkline said:


> Since I'm 12 years late in finding these forums, I have a feeling no one here will see this. But as someone who survived that ship sinking and am reminiscing, looking through all the most inaccurate articles and discussions about the subject, this one really gets me. You truly never know unless you were there. All you have is speculation. This was my second consecutive year aboard Concordia. I was having a very normal day... For any news you consume it's best to check in and remind yourself that yes you are getting a fragmented story, you weren't there and not everyone is up to no good. fair winds, Lily


Glad you are here to tell your story Lily. That had to be a terribly frightening event. I thought when I saw this (never saw this post before today) that someone was once again reviving a long dead post once again for no good reason, and I was going to ask why. You revived it for a great reason and no one who was not there has an opinion that matters even a little bit. Again, sorry you had to go through that harrowing event.


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## lkline

GlanRock said:


> Glad you are here to tell your story Lily. That had to be a terribly frightening event. I thought when I saw this (never saw this post before today) that someone was once again reviving a long dead post once again for no good reason, and I was going to ask why. You revived it for a great reason and no one who was not there has an opinion that matters even a little bit. Again, sorry you had to go through that harrowing event.


 Thank you for the kind words ! It feels silly to comment on because this is many years later but it is neat that there is community around this stuff and to see that people were tuning in. I did not know other people were watching. Glad to be here !


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## MarkofSeaLife

Hi Lily, 

Welcome to SailNet. 😊 

Unfortunately there are many tragedies at sea. 
We try to learn from each one so in the future fewer people are killed and fewer vessels are lost. 
We do this, in part, by reporting on, and reading investigations, media reports, witness accounts, and whatever we can lay our fingertips on. With the paucity of facts immediately after an incident we often discuss hypertheticals that may later be discounted. 
Our discussions are not to be construed as anything except trying to learn how to avoid incidents in the future. 

Indeed we have a special sub-forum for it: Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger with over 10,000 posts dissecting virtually every death at sea on sailing boats. 
Our discussions are not necessarily to be supportive of captain, crew, or the reputation of any inanimate object such as a ship or boat. Our discussions are about safety. 
Some may well argue we should never discuss a tragedy until some official investigation is complete and an official report handed down. However this maybe years after the event and that time wasted may lead to the loss of further lives. 

As an example, my memory of the Concordia disaster (and I have not re-read the thread / I maybe confusing it with another) is that there was an excessive time taken for a Search and Rescue response after the EPIRB was activated. Something along the lines that Brazil did not activate a response until 18 hours after the event and only then because the USA forced them to act. 
The long term result was that the whole world's response mechanism to disasters at sea has been changed so when an EPIRB is activated the coastguard of the country with SAR responsabilité is informed and _at the same time_ the country the EPIRB is registered. This paradigm shift has saved countless lives. 

So, facts as seen by crew of any disaster may be quite different in the future effect brought by the disaster. 

No one here, 12 years ago, nor now in the continuing litinay of tragedies is trying to insult the crew by discussing any incident. We just do so to gain knowledge to save future lives. 😊

Thanks for coming on-board SailNet and giving your first hand account. It makes for a lovely epilogue to the thread after so many years. 

I hope you are still leading an adventurous life 😊

Mark


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## GlanRock

lkline said:


> Thank you for the kind words ! It feels silly to comment on because this is many years later but it is neat that there is community around this stuff and to see that people were tuning in. I did not know other people were watching. Glad to be here !


You are welcome! And your experience and feelings are valid and it is not silly at all to read through posts about something you were involved in and have varied levels of reaction to people's opinions. Some of the folks on forums take their thoughts a little far and its understandable that it might invoke strong reactions. Mostly everyone is great here and I hope you join in on the conversations, new thoughts are always good.


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## requiem

I recall hearing of this case, and it sent me off for more reading on stability information.

And, when speaking of historical cases, it's always nice when someone can unexpectedly pop in with their own "_I was there, Gandalf. I was there 3000 years ago..._" story.


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