# Coast Guard Searching for Father, 3 Kids off of Florida



## Nancyleeny

I just came across this. I pray they find them safe and sound.

Coast Guard Searching for Dad, 3 Teens Missing Off Florida Coast - ABC News


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## cdy

*family missing on sailboat off Ft Myers area*

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/rescue-cr...g-florida-155604866--abc-news-topstories.html

Something does not seem right - traveling from Sarasotas to Ft Myers on a 29th foot sailboat - you would not be too far offshore - if you got into problems you could call using your cell - he was with 3 teenagers so you know they all had cells. Lifejackets in the water , so they had them - the water is pretty warm so water temp should not have effected them too much


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## svHyLyte

More news:

Sarasota father and 3 teens missing off Englewood | HeraldTribune.com

We had some terrific squalls in the south Tampa Bay/Sarasota area on Sunday afternoon/evening with heavy rains and wind gusts in the 30's. Such conditions will kick up a pretty nasty sea near shore on the southwest coast but not something someone with a bit of experience can't handle with a 29' boat. I hope that the family is found alive but, frankly, given the time passed, it looks doubtful at this point. Let's hope eh?


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## cb32863

*Re: family missing on sailboat off Ft Myers area*

If you read the article, he called his brother and said they were in 6 foot seas. That was obviously an issue for them from his perspective as he said they were "trying to survive". Let's keep the armchair quarterbacking to a zero and just hope for a good outcome.


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## cdy

*Re: family missing on sailboat off Ft Myers area*

Not arm chair quarterbacking - just stating it is a bit odd to have a cruiser type sailboat missing close to shore . Sarasota to Ft Myers is about 60 miles - you would probably be only a couple of miles offshore, the father and teenagers aboard , so not really short handed. Usually when I see these types of headlines in Florida - it is a small fishing type boat missing that did not have enough lifejackets on board - not the case here. I have no idea what the captain did right or wrong.

The gulf is pretty shallow so it will build up short choppy seas pretty quickly. The water temps should be in the mid 80's - so if they can stay afloat - they could survive quite some time.

Hopefully someone from Sarasota can add some local knowledge.


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## krisscross

*Re: family missing on sailboat off Ft Myers area*

Looks grim. Six out of seven life jackets recovered way out offshore and both kayaks. All empty. Boat likely sunk. Hard to stay in a kayak in 6 ft seas. It's like a washing machine. That is probably why the life jackets were empty too. I'm sure they put them on once they saw the boat was in real trouble.


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## svHyLyte

*Re: family missing on sailboat off Ft Myers area*

At 2015 EDST the US Coast Guard reported that they had recovered one body, wearing a PFD, in the vicinity of the previously reported debris field. The body was reportedly "unidentifiable". (Having traversed that area on numerous occasions, I can say with assurance that, unless one is accompanied by Dolphins, one will be accompanied by Sharks, Black Tips particularly. It is not a place I'd want to be in the water.)

What I find most astonishing is that Ace (who most assuredly wasn't) Kimberly would have taken his children on such a voyage in a ill equipped boat needing repair to say nothing of without a means of communication other than a cell phone nor any emergency signaling device (an ACR PLB could have been had for less than $200.00 or simply a SPOT Locator for under $100). A Husband/Father's first and foremost duty is to the safety/security of his family. He clearly/obviously didn't know what he was doing and his children, trusting in him, have paid the price. What a useless, pointless tragedy.


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## cdy

*Re: family missing on sailboat off Ft Myers area*

I am perplexed - he was 37 miles offshore traveling from Sarasota to Ft Myers? Its only about 60 miles - why so far offshore? Only thing I can think off was a non functioning engine and some very long tacks.

Living in Florida and spending a lot of time around marinas - when I read about a 29 foot sailboat anchored out with 3 teenagers and one adult living on it - a well up-kept cruiser does not come to mind - I have no knowledge of the boater however so just a guess - but it is a real tragedy when it involves kids.


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## krisscross

*Re: family missing on sailboat off Ft Myers area*



cdy said:


> I am perplexed - he was 37 miles offshore traveling from Sarasota to Ft Myers? Its only about 60 miles - why so far offshore? Only thing I can think off was a non functioning engine and some very long tacks.


Correction: debris was found 37 miles offshore because most likely it drifted there pushed west by the wind.


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## Donna_F

Merged two threads.


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## svHyLyte

*Re: family missing on sailboat off Ft Myers area*



cdy said:


> I am perplexed - he was 37 miles offshore traveling from Sarasota to Ft Myers? Its only about 60 miles - why so far offshore? Only thing I can think off was a non functioning engine and some very long tacks.....


At 2000 hours on Sunday evening a tourist reported that while she was visiting the beach at Boca Grande with her family they observed "&#8230;an about 30' boat with white sails attempting to enter the Pass". She reported that '&#8230;it was pointed in but going backward&#8230;' At the time reported, tide was low and there was a 1.5 knt ebb running into strong winds in the Pass which can/will create closely spaced near standing waves at the Pass making it nearly impassable for small craft. She further reported that the boat '&#8230;.finally gave up and turned around toward the south&#8230;'. Off shore at the time, there were reportedly 3-6 foot waves toward the southwest with a Gulf Stream edy setting southwesterly with a 1.0 to 1.5 knt drift. Coupling set, drift and wave action, by 0800 Monday AM, the boat would have easily covered 10-12 miles to the southwest. That set and drift would have continued for the boat, or its remnants for the following days. By Wednesday, when the debris field was discovered, it was about 33 miles off Sanibel, easily understandable given the foregoing and that the coastline tends to the southeast.

Most disturbing to me was seeing that among the debris were water jugs, 6 life jackets and a Blue tarp, held together by a length of yellow polypropylene line. From that one might reasonably assume that the father attempted to assemble the makings of survival gear for himself and the kids. It was reported that the boat carried 7 life jackets which ties with the 6 found tied together and a 7th on the body recovered. Whether there might have been more, such that everyone, or at least all of the kids, had flotation gear remains unknown. If not, however, I cannot fathom the father not having had the kids all don PFD's even if her did not himself. We morn for the children...


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## Nancyleeny

This seems very confusing and such a tragedy. My heart breaks for those kids and father, and that poor mother.


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## CarbonSink62

Second body just got found.


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## JSL3

This is a pic of the boat from the US coast guard's twitter feed. Photo obviously taken before it went missing.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/746040425660751872


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## cdy

Looking at the boat - it could have been seaworthy and able to handle rough conditions near shore if it was kept up - does not look like that was the case. Also has a outboard on a bracket - I am sure it had an inboard at one time. You get into any short chop with a boat made for an inboard but using an outboard you are going to have a terrible prop cavitation, almost impossible to get into an inlet with the tide and or wind pushing against you.

There were 4 people living on the boat according to the stories, how long they had been anchored out in Sarasota - not sure. But this is the type of boat that gets the local homeowners up in arms - all sorts of stuff hanging off it, people living on it , most likely pumping the sewage overboard. I am all for anchoring rights for boaters and don't care for landowners just trying to protect their view - but overburdened boats anchoring close to your home - I can understand their annoyance. 

its a tragedy what happened to the kids and father- it seems the rescue came too late.


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## archimedes

Some friends and I were wondering; isn't it possible to get from Sarasota to Ft Meyers via the intra-coastal? If so, I wonder why they choose to go outside.

Not trying to criticize them, just wondering what options existed that might have avoided this outcome. 

Maybe the outboard wasn't working so they tried to sail?


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## JSailer

cdy said:


> There were 4 people living on the boat according to the stories, how long they had been anchored out in Sarasota - not sure. But this is the type of boat that gets the local homeowners up in arms - all sorts of stuff hanging off it, people living on it , most likely pumping the sewage overboard. I am all for anchoring rights for boaters and don't care for landowners just trying to protect their view - but overburdened boats anchoring close to your home - I can understand their annoyance.


With all due respect CDY, what you wrote is outrageous. People have died and some are still missing so I sincerely think that your speculation about them dumping sewage in front of landowners property is pathetic and outrageous.
I did not know this people but as a father who sails with three teenagers, I hurt reading these news but I am beside myself reading your comment.
Have some dignity and take those comments somewhere else.


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## svHyLyte

archimedes said:


> Some friends and I were wondering; isn't it possible to get from Sarasota to Ft Meyers via the intra-coastal?


Yes, easily.



> If so, I wonder why they choose to go outside. Not trying to criticize them, just wondering what options existed that might have avoided this outcome. Maybe the outboard wasn't working so they tried to sail?


Your guess is as good as anyone's. Let it be said, however, based on comments by some of the locals at Marina Jack's and in the anchorage, "Ace" wasn't.


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## cdy

Jsailor - take a look at the picture of the boat in question - 4 people have been living on it for a year anchored off Sarasota - as a father myself who has sailed with my kids inshore and off - I think what happened is tragic - but I think this story points out some of the problems we have in Florida - I have no idea of the captains experience - but the condition of the boat does not look like it was suitable for offshore sailing - I see this quite a bit in Florida - boats that are barely seaworthy being used as housing, which might be fine for being anchored off Dinner Key in Miami or in Sarasota - the problem arises when you head off into any weather. This is an internet forum where discussion are not always pretty - but my point is this story shows what can happen on an ill prepared boat, I don't think everyone needs to be in a Pacific Seacraft , just to have a well prepared boat.

As I have said three times earlier - this is a tragedy - loss of kids is terrible - but hopefully can be used as a learning experience for others who might attempt the same - you need to be prepared when heading out the inlet - even for a short jaunt down the coast.

As far as dumping sewage - unfortunately it happens way too much, I know numerous anchorages where boats seem to be permanently moored with people living on them - there are no pump out barges and the boats never come into the marina ( many never move) so I can guess where the head might be emptying - maybe the owner of this boat was not one of those , maybe he was diligent about waste - I was using his boat as an an example of what I see around the state.


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## Nancyleeny

So I've been looking at maps and trying to figure out where the intracoastal waterway is from Sarasota to Ft. Myers. I can't remember from my trip down that way last year? Is it in bays, or is there even a protected area there?


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## JSailer

CDY, just let it go.
We don't care about where they anchored or if they dumped sewage, whether Dinner Key has derelict boats.
My reply to you was about dignity and respecting lost lives.
People died. 
Are we so self centered that we can just be quiet for a moment and not complain about anchoring laws or sewage problem?
Come on.
People died.


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## svHyLyte

Nancyleeny said:


> So I've been looking at maps and trying to figure out where the intracoastal waterway is from Sarasota to Ft. Myers. I can't remember from my trip down that way last year? Is it in bays, or is there even a protected area there?


The GICW runs inside from Sarasota all the way to San Carlos Bay and beyond behind the barrier islands. Click over to ActiveCaptain.com, register (for free) and you can use the interactive cruising guide to view the maps/charts/aerial photos of the route. While "safer" in some respects, the ICW is a crushing bore save at bridges where traverses can be a bit exciting, especially if one is dependent on a small outboard for power. The route is also circuitous making for a longer, and at this time of the year, miserably hot trip. Offshore, provided one is equipped for the passage, is faster and more pleasant. One does, however, have to time ones passage to hit the inlets at the right state of the tide and current. We typically travel from the Sarasota area to the Ft. Myers area off shore, stopping at Venice and then heading for Boca Grande. Headed to the Keys, we usually sail direct without intermediate stops (30 hours). Having done one l-o-n-g, boring, hot trip via the ICW, I'll take the sea every time.

FWIW...


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## SVAuspicious

If finances were an issue, they may have gone outside to sail rather than pump money into the outboard inshore.


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## denverd0n

JSailer said:


> My reply to you was about dignity and respecting lost lives.


And CDY honored the dignity of the people, and showed complete respect for the dead. Just because people died, that doesn't mean there aren't lessons to be learned here. And we aren't going to learn those lessons if we don't discuss what happened while the details are still fresh. There is very definitely nothing self centered about trying to understand and learn from a tragedy.

If you want a quiet moment, fine. Take one. Of course, you are posting here, too, so obviously a quiet moment isn't all THAT important to you.


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## JSailer

Denverdon, you are absolutely right. I, and most of us, are here to try to understand and learn from a tragedy like that. We may never know what happened but yes, I read to possibly learn from it. 
My point was, when someone writes:
" There were 4 people living on the boat according to the stories, how long they had been anchored out in Sarasota - not sure. But this is the type of boat that gets the local homeowners up in arms - all sorts of stuff hanging off it, people living on it , most likely pumping the sewage overboard. I am all for anchoring rights for boaters and don't care for landowners just trying to protect their view - but overburdened boats anchoring close to your home - I can understand their annoyance. " 
I am sorry but I truly do not see where this is helping or respectful.
Maybe I am completely wrong but discussing their route, or the weather, or seamanship, etc. then yes, I say this is what's it is about, but taking this thread at this time of grief (and still search and rescue) to complain about "boats with stuf hanging out" and "why local landowners are annoyed", is completely inappropriate and out of topic. Yes, CDY expressed his sorrow and sadness, but I believe in my heart that part of his post was inappropriate and that's what I said.
Sorry. Maybe my values and beliefs are wrong but that's why I took the time to post instead of remaining silent (which WAS very important to me until reading that).
Now I am done. This is not about me or CDY, but about a tragedy and I will continue to hope that they find the last two people alive.


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## eherlihy

Nancyleeny said:


> So I've been looking at maps and trying to figure out where the intracoastal waterway is from Sarasota to Ft. Myers. I can't remember from my trip down that way last year? Is it in bays, or is there even a protected area there?


The GICW runs INSIDE along the following route from Tampa Bay; Anna Maria Sound, Sarasota Bay, Roberts Bay, Little Sarasota Bay, Blackburn Bay, Lyons Bay, Dona Bay, Roberts Bay (another one... you're now in Venice, FL), a dredged ICW channel which brings you to Alligator Cr, which empties into Mansota Bay, to Lemon Bay, to Placida Harbor, to Gasparilla Sound, to Charlotte Harbor, to Pine Island Sound, to San Carlos Bay, at which point you enter the Calosahatchee. At no time would it require that you enter the Gulf of Mexico.

I'm sure this would be interesting in a 26 foot sailboat with a *reliable *outboard and plenty of fuel.


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## groggy

wrt the minor dust up regarding respect for the dead vs speculating on the condition of the boat, it appears that someone who knew them and their boat well seems to suggest that it was not in seaworthy condition, which I think was more at the core of the speculation than the tangential issue of anchoring.

Regardless, sympathies to the family for the situation they were in before setting off, and for what is happening. Hopefully some better news may arrive soon.

Friend of family missing at sea says boat was not seaworthy | KRON4.com


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## gah964

First off i was friends with Ace i know the boat i know why he went outside the ICW .I was with him the first time he sailed a boat .

I just want to say you people on here are despicable and do not deserve my time to inform you .

You all want lessons I will give you a lesson, Be Respectful not a idiot know it all.


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## MarkofSeaLife

gah964 said:


> I just want to say you people on here are despicable and do not deserve my time to inform you .
> 
> You all want lessons I will give you a lesson, .


Then you are a wanker.

Mark


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## Hush34

When exactly did everyone get so sensitive?????

Very sorry to learn of this senseless loss. It emphasizes the power of mother ocean and the need to be prepared and properly equipped. Even then, when it's time it's time.


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## Sal Paradise

Man, do I feel terrible for those kids who's only fault was too much loyalty to their father. [email protected] [email protected] those kids deserved better!! Aaargh!!!!!!\\Jeeez!! 

The father had a choice, and according to the article he even had an offer of a radio to take with them but didnt take it. The article also said the family was extremely tight knit. So those kids, they went with their Dad. I am so sorry for them.


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## zeehag

did they find the boys yet??i know yesterday the father and daughter were found. 
as for the folks on social media who stated they saw a flare and were ¨advised it was a training event¨-- perhaps a trip to the flare woulda saved someone??? deviate until you are certain it is a training exercise as opposed to a lil family dying??? 
we count on folks responding appropriately to our sending of flares, not having a party discussing how cool it is to see them going off . flares donot send selves .
seems to me when i was sailing gom and i saw a buncha flares going off and helos with em, that was a training exercise.. one flare is not a training exercise. we are supposed to respond appropriately to flares. not sit on our asses watching the pretty show. 
r i p little family.


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## krisscross

One lesson from this terrible tragedy for me: inflatable tenders are a much better safety gear than kayaks. I have been using a double kayak as a tender all these years. I think if these folks had an inflatable tender with them, they would have been alive today.


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## RTB

krisscross said:


> One lesson from this terrible tragedy for me: inflatable tenders are a much better safety gear than kayaks. I have been using a double kayak as a tender all these years. I think if these folks had an inflatable tender with them, they would have been alive today.


That and a working VHF to call a mayday. Probably would have had SAR looking for them in 2 hours, instead of 2 days (when family reported them missing). you are never far from the coasties on either coast of Florida.

Too damn sad!

Ralph


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## mbianka

RTB said:


> That and a working VHF to call a mayday. Probably would have had SAR looking for them in 2 hours, instead of 2 days (when family reported them missing). you are never far from the coasties on either coast of Florida.
> 
> Too damn sad!
> 
> Ralph


Not so sure. I recall a search for a fellow in those same waters a year or two ago. He set off an EPIRB but it got detached from him and/or the boat. They found the EPIRB but not the boat. Despite a rigorous search and frequent calls by the Coast Guard for boaters to be on the lookout he and the boat were never found until it beached in Cuba a number of days later with him still attached by the safety tether having been dragged over 90 miles from the Gulf. Sobering lesson to me was that it can still be close to 50/50 odds even with some of the right equipment.


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## MarkofSeaLife

RTB said:


> Too damn sad!
> 
> Ralph


Yes it is too damn sad.

I get aggravated at the 'I'm not going to tell you about what happened because you are not worthy of being told' mentality.

If you look at it on another perspective these are just more people who have died. Of the many who die each year. They are nothing special. Just dead.
Yes its horrific and callous for me to say it, but its right. Many, many tragic incidents each year resulting in death.

We should learn from each death. Not so they 'will never happen again' as they will happen again. But because we can try to be better so they won't happen on our boats.

It is tough out 'there'... but it's not that tough that we can't do it pretty safely.

As far as I can see we do learn from Arm Chair Quarterbacking. We do learn from being horrible to people that have died.

But if we learn just that smidgen so we can save lives of children, our families and our crews then I think its worth it.

If these young kids have died and we can learn then it's a blessing to their memory we have done so.

Mark


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## RTB

mbianka said:


> Not so sure. I recall a search for a fellow in those same waters a year or two ago. He set off an EPIRB but it got detached from him and/or the boat. They found the EPIRB but not the boat. Despite a rigorous search and frequent calls by the Coast Guard for boaters to be on the lookout he and the boat were never found until it beached in Cuba a number of days later with him still attached by the safety tether having been dragged over 90 miles from the Gulf. Sobering lesson to me was that it can still be close to 50/50 odds even with some of the right equipment.


It seems to me that if the CG could locate a debris field and 2 bodies after receiving a missing vessel report from family on Tuesday, what different outcome would there be if they received a panpan or mayday on Sunday, when things went wrong? That is a huge amount of time.

We'll never know what happened in this case, just like with many others we've all read about. It is a vivid reminder of how bad things can happen if we let our guard down, ignore problems on our boats, and get lax with weather windows. It's kind of weird to think how quickly we can die in an automobile accident. A second or two being distracted can easily kill you at 70 mph. On a sailboat, you need hours or days to screw up and kill yourself.....

Ralph


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## Sal Paradise

I think it is safe to say a radio disrtress call on Sunday would have brought the Coasties and probably saved them. and I agree krisscross it seems like a kayak would be a horrible life raft.


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## Skabeeb

I just returned from an annual Pensacola to Key West trip across the Gulf (for the fifth time). Each time we crossed to Sarasota then outside to Boca Grande for the night. I can tell you from personal experience that the current in Boca Grande Pass can be very strong (and we were on a 38' catamaran). If they were facing an apposing wind/tide scenario it could create an almost impassable situation. Also the Gulf is like a bathtub, in rough weather you get often get confused seas with short period sharp waves coming at you from all directions (unlike the Caribbean, Atlantic or Pacific where you get rollers). This sad situation underscores the need to plan on and prepare for an emergency with a good radio, PLB, and knowledge of how to heave to in rough weather. I pray for the family left behind by this sad tragedy.


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## Nancyleeny

gah964 said:


> First off i was friends with Ace i know the boat i know why he went outside the ICW .I was with him the first time he sailed a boat .
> 
> I just want to say you people on here are despicable and do not deserve my time to inform you .
> 
> You all want lessons I will give you a lesson, Be Respectful not a idiot know it all.


Most people were very respectful - in fact, they called out one person who might not have been. If you are too distraught to be logical and not abusive, you may want to take some time before commenting again.


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## krisscross

I don't judge Ace. From what I have read about him he was w better sailor than me. 
To see your kids die when under your care has to be the absolutely worst experience, period. Worst punishment for you mistakes. I would not wish that on my worst enemy.
Looks like they were broke and living on a boat, trying to make the best of it. He tried to borrow a radio before this trip, but it was slow coming and he decided to make this trip without it. A cascade of unfortunate events and errors. The sea is unforgiving and a very cruel mistress. I don't think I will ever forget that story and it's lessons.


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## RobDahlgren

I'm trying to be sensitive here, but I can't help but feel some anger that these children were put in this situation. To take your children offshore in a derelict boat with no VHF, that is not just a mistake, it sounds like reckless behavior. It's like driving drunk with the kids in the car, I grieve for the kids but can't muster it for the father.


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## Nancyleeny

RobDahlgren said:


> I'm trying to be sensitive here, but I can't help but feel some anger that these children were put in this situation. To take your children offshore in a derelict boat with no VHF, that is not just a mistake, it sounds like reckless behavior. It's like driving drunk with the kids in the car, I grieve for the kids but can't muster it for the father.


I agree. As a mother, this breaks my heart. But we do tend to judge through our own lens, and perhaps he just couldn't get the funds together to get the equipment and had no place to keep the kids while he went alone. I thought I read they weren't in formal school, so if that's true, and he was home schooling, sometimes they even have less options to get away without the kids.


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## denverd0n

I would add that I hope we all keep this incident in mind the next time someone comes along who clearly does not have the experience for it, nor a properly equipped boat, but insists that they want to take off across an ocean, and "just go" on their adventure. Every time we see postings like that, there will be people who encourage them to not worry about it and "just go." And then there will be others who suggest maybe they should slow down, learn a bit first, and get their boat in proper order before heading out.

And guess what? You know those latter folks, who counsel some caution (and I am always one of them)? They will be accused of being nay-sayers, of trying to burst the bubbles of the dreamers, and of insisting that everyone has to have a multi-million dollar, fully-equipped yacht before they venture out of the harbor. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. When we suggest that people exercise a little caution and consider the risks before heading out into the deep blue, we are not trying to destroy their dreams. We are just trying to help prevent yet another incident like the one being discussed here from happening. Not everyone should be told to "just go."

As Mark said, people die. That's a fact. We can't stop it from happening, but we can certainly avoid contributing to it happening. If we can learn a lesson when others die, then maybe we can help ourselves and others in the future.


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## svHyLyte

It is in the nature of humans to view and judge the actions/decisions/choices of others through the lens of one’s own knowledge/experience and frankly, intellect and sometimes ask (themselves or others), “How could he/she have done such obviously stupid stuff” or “…made such a poor choice/decision.” Unfortunately, the foregoing generally precedes or accompanies comments/thoughts to the effect “He/She got what he/she deserved” together with expressions of sorrow/sympathy for the innocents that may also have suffered “needlessly”.

My first and prolonged reaction to the events of this thread was judgmental, as above, and anger with the father (“Ace”), if for no other reason than his daughter so closely resembles our own daughter at the same age and even the thought of her suffering, in any manner, brings sweat to the palms of my hands and an ache in my guts.

Upon further reflection; and, having learned more about the father from people that met him and the children, my anger with him has turned to sorrow. Evidently, although not particularly bright or educated, “Ace” was a loving father that did his best to keep his family together and happy with the limited resources he had at his disposal, both material and intellectual. Unlike many men that father children, he did not abandon them. He cared for them, kept them together and seemed to have provided for them as well as he could. And for them all, perhaps living on a boat in Florida—however small, rustic and likely uncomfortable—may have seemed romantic and adventuresome in a Robinson Crusoe/Smith Family Robinson sense. In a way, it was also resourceful in that it was a place to live, however rudimentary, for very little cost, and might merely have been intended as a waystop while the father got himself situated and able to afford better.

We do not and cannot know what led the father to elect an off-shore passage to Ft. Myers. Perhaps because of the time needed for an inside passage and the associated discomfort; perhaps because his outboard was unreliable and difficult to manage making an inside passage all the more difficult, particularly managing bridge openings. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps…We cannot know. We, or those of us living in the area for any time, know how predictably unpredictable the weather is. Being relatively new to the area, he might not have realized that, or even if so, not realized how violent, vicious and deadly “little” squalls can be. (E. g.. last Friday a nasty little ***** of a fast moving squall blew through Pt. Charlotte/Punta Gorda with 60 knot gusts and quarter sized hail. It ripped off roofs and shattered building and car windows but was then gone in 40 minutes, leaving wreckage and stunned victims in its wake. Ten miles away, north or south, it was an unremarkable sunny, hot, muggy day.)

Having learned how closely he guarded and cared for his children I don’t think the father would have made the choice he did if he had realized the danger and the great likelihood that they would—not could—encounter one of more squalls, or worse, on a 60 miles jaunt in the Gulf at this time of year. I don’t believe it was arrogance, negligence, hubris or whatever. Merely simple ignorance of the “..seemed like a good idea at the time” kind. (I agree with Don, If nothing else, the events are a cautionary tale for the “Just Do It” crowd as to “newbe” sailors/cruisers. Just doing it may be the last thing they ever do.)

Hence, we mourn them all--father and particularly children.


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## scubadoo

I wish I could write something intelligent and motivating to the sailors of this forum, but this is the best I could do….

I was so excited after receiving a call two weeks ago saying that my name was finally at the top of the long waiting list for a mooring at the Coconut Grove Sailing Club near Dinner Key in Miami. I shared the news with family and friends and we talked about it continuously up until last Wednesday. Tons of excitement building every day.

I had planned to move my sailboat from Singer Island down to Dinner Key this weekend.

After learning of this tragedy I took a really hard, critical look at the condition of my motor, muffler, rudder, lifelines and a few other questionable items in need of repair. I made a very difficult decision to postpone the trip until I could haul her out and make ALL of the necessary repairs.

I’m back at the bottom of the waiting list and my significant other is a little disappointed, but we are both alive to try it again another day, after the repairs have been made.

I’d like to think that my overzealous foolishness was sobered by this family’s tragedy. So very, very sad.


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## MedSailor

RTB said:


> It seems to me that if the CG could locate a debris field and 2 bodies after receiving a missing vessel report from family on Tuesday, what different outcome would there be if they received a panpan or mayday on Sunday, when things went wrong? That is a huge amount of time.
> 
> We'll never know what happened in this case, just like with many others we've all read about. It is a vivid reminder of how bad things can happen if we let our guard down, ignore problems on our boats, and get lax with weather windows. *It's kind of weird to think how quickly we can die in an automobile accident. A second or two being distracted can easily kill you at 70 mph. On a sailboat, you need hours or days to screw up and kill yourself.....*
> 
> Ralph


Generally true, with the possible exception of falling overboard. Doubly so if single handing.


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## Rocky Mountain Breeze

There was a family killed in a car/train collision in southern Colorado yesterday. The parent driving made a bad decision and only one child survived. Sailing is not unique to tragedy so there is no sense to flog the defenseless just because they were on a boat. Each person has to make his own judgement as to what defines a prudent risk and the rest of us have no control over that decision. My wife and I enjoy riding a motorcycle. In 2004 we participated in a 15 day motorcycle tour of central Europe, starting and ending in London, England. One of the many cultural surprises we discovered was that most of the European couples with kids would not ride on the same motorcycle nor fly together without the kids in case there was a wreck and both would be killed and leave their children orphans. We choose to not view traveling together as being a risk to our children (or grandchildren today) so I thought they were being overcautious. To each his own.


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## RobDahlgren

Rocky Mountain Breeze said:


> Sailing is not unique to tragedy so there is no sense to flog the defenseless just because they were on a boat.


I agree with you to a degree, but my problem with Ace's actions aren't just because "he was on a boat".

Granted, he didn't go out there expecting to get caught in rough weather, but going out without a radio seems pretty crazy to me.

How do you feel when you see parents letting their kids stand up in the back seat of a car? Will you give your kids a ride on a motorcycle with no helmet?

There is risk in every adventure and we all have to weigh those risks. But the bar has to be set a little higher when the kids are involved.

The whole thing just seems so d*mn-- preventable.


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## svHyLyte

RobDahlgren said:


> ...my problem with Ace's actions aren't just because "he was on a boat".
> 
> Granted, he didn't go out there expecting to get caught in rough weather, but going out without a radio seems pretty crazy to me.


Rob,

It may come as something of a surprise to you but radio's being ubiquitous on boats is rather a new development and actually didn't become commonplace until the early 1980's and since--and mostly then as a consequence of race committee requirements and, since, their greater affordability. We did not carry a radio transmitter on our first boats until the late 1970's and they were rarely seen on ocean voyaging yachts before that. Even world girdling sailors such as the Hiscock's went without a transmitter until their last yacht Wanderer V in the mid-1970's Most everyone made do with receivers, if that, with the Zenith Transoceanic 7000 being the unit most lusted after.

While the father's judgement may have been poor I have addressed my sentiments on that in my earlier comment, that he may not have been wise enough, experienced enough; or simply intelligent enough to assess the risk he was undertaking. Frankly, I strongly suspect it was the latter as there seems to be genetic corroboration in that his brother, having received a call that his brother and children were in trouble, didn't have enough sense to contact the authorities for more than 36 hours! Now that's an exhibition of deadly stupidity in my view.

Here Homer Nods...


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## okawbow

Anyone who has ever taken their kids in their car and has been distracted even for a moment, is just as likely to kill them as Ace was by going outside in his sailboat. 

Bad judgement and lack of planning can afflict anyone and everyone at some time. The consequences can be fatal instantly or over a period of days. 

We have all been saved or hurt because of a quirk of fate. "Judge not lest you be judged" applies to everyone, not just the bible thumpers.


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## jwing

scubadoo said:


> ...I made a very difficult decision to postpone the trip until I could haul her out and make ALL of the necessary repairs.
> 
> I'm back at the bottom of the waiting list and my significant other is a little disappointed, but we are both alive to try it again another day, after the repairs have been made...


River runners have a saying: 'Tis better to walk around a rapid and wish you had run it than to run a rapid and wish you had walked it.

Sailors should have a similar adage.


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## Nancyleeny

okawbow said:


> Anyone who has ever taken their kids in their car and has been distracted even for a moment, is just as likely to kill them as Ace was by going outside in his sailboat.
> 
> Bad judgement and lack of planning can afflict anyone and everyone at some time. The consequences can be fatal instantly or over a period of days.
> 
> We have all been saved or hurt because of a quirk of fate. "Judge not lest you be judged" applies to everyone, not just the bible thumpers.


This is so true - every day, I see mothers texting while driving with kids in the car.


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## gah964

Nancyleeny said:


> Most people were very respectful - in fact, they called out one person who might not have been. If you are too distraught to be logical and not abusive, you may want to take some time before commenting again.


Thats exactly what i am talking about ,

I was rescued off KY hit by a Waterspout and people on here called me a lair . even the mods.
So I had to remove my thread. most people on here are rude and have nothing but insults to contribute.

People were in the position to help but did nothing.
I gave him a gps a better sailboat a Bristol that he left behind, 
and i welded his helm on the doomed boat.
i gave him a anchor and a main sail.list goes on.
And the kids were not in school or taking class of any kind ,police knew this and did nothing.


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## Sal Paradise

gah964 said:


> Thats exactly what i am talking about ,
> 
> People were in the position to help but did nothing.
> I gave him a gps a better sailboat a Bristol that he left behind,
> and i welded his helm on the doomed boat.
> i gave him a anchor and a main sail.list goes on.
> And the kids were not in school or taking class of any kind ,police knew this and did nothing.


Hey - no judgement here - trying to understand what you are saying. You actually knew the father? Any info you can share - positive or otherwise I think helps everyone.


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## Donna_F

gah964 said:


> Thats exactly what i am talking about ,
> 
> I was rescued off KY hit by a Waterspout and people on here called me a lair . even the mods.
> So I had to remove my thread. most people on here are rude and have nothing but insults to contribute.
> 
> People were in the position to help but did nothing.
> I gave him a gps a better sailboat a Bristol that he left behind,
> and i welded his helm on the doomed boat.
> i gave him a anchor and a main sail.list goes on.
> And the kids were not in school or taking class of any kind ,police knew this and did nothing.


Huh?!


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## midwesterner

gah964 said:


> Thats exactly what i am talking about ,
> 
> I was rescued off KY hit by a Waterspout and people on here called me a lair . even the mods.
> So I had to remove my thread. most people on here are rude and have nothing but insults to contribute.
> 
> People were in the position to help but did nothing.
> I gave him a gps a better sailboat a Bristol that he left behind,
> and i welded his helm on the doomed boat.
> i gave him a anchor and a main sail.list goes on.
> And the kids were not in school or taking class of any kind ,police knew this and did nothing.


Yes, I was confused by this as well. It sounds like two different stories? You were once rescued off the coast of Kentucky? What coast of Kentucky?

Then you say people were in a position to help but didn't. Help who? You when you were in a water spout? Or the father in this Florida tragedy?

Then you jump to a story about loaning someone a GPS and another boat. Who did you loan a GPS and a boat to? I understand that the man in the Florida tragedy was trying to move his boat to a boatyard to get repairs? He had to take his boat to be able to get the repairs done on it. I don't understand your post.


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## gah964

midwesterner said:


> Yes, I was confused by this as well. It sounds like two different stories? You were once rescued off the coast of Kentucky? What coast of Kentucky?
> 
> Then you say people were in a position to help but didn't. Help who? You when you were in a water spout? Or the father in this Florida tragedy?
> 
> Then you jump to a story about loaning someone a GPS and another boat. Who did you loan a GPS and a boat to? I understand that the man in the Florida tragedy was trying to move his boat to a boatyard to get repairs? He had to take his boat to be able to get the repairs done on it. I don't understand your post.


i needed rescued off KW '"post is in my profile "and people called me a liar,,, yes you too Donna.

yes i was friends with Ace and helped him and fixed his gear and gave him a gps, main sail and other items.

No one else in the area seemed to care about helping the Kimberly family or their living conditions.

then i read how people on this site would have gave him anything he needed yeah BS.

This site has treated me horribly when trying to help give info and help people learn from my mistakes.

I wanted to see what people posted about this and thats why i stopped by.

i read how he **** in the water and a argument going back 2 pages. it pissed me off .


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## groggy

Ah, 'KW' == Key West , FL., and 'KY' is maybe a mis-typing of 'KW'?

'KW' should be more obvious, but to folks reading this from further away, it might not be. 

I dont think people intend you (GAH) any insult, it's just hard to understand what you are writing. If anything, I think people reading this are very curious to hear what you have to say, as you have a lot of personal knowledge about the situation and the people involved.


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