# Flying Scot



## Mr. E (Jan 13, 2018)

Howdy folks. I'm a total noob to sailing and I'm considering buying an older Flying Scot. How bad of an idea is this? :grin Here's my back story:

I have quite a bit of experience on various power boats in the TVA lakes in Tennessee. Never been on a sailboat, though. Not many sailboats there because the lakes aren't very big and there is very little wind. But I've always enjoyed being on a boat, and the older I get the less appealing a fast gas guzzling power boat seems. Sailing sounds more interesting and relaxing and (potentially) cheaper.

For several years now, I've had the idea that I would like to learn to sail. Not sure where I got the idea, but I think I would enjoy it. I've recently moved up near Sandusky Ohio because of work, and it has occurred to me that I could learn to sail here. The local sailing club has an adult sailing class. Once they make out the schedule for this year I plan to sign up. But I'm thinking in the meantime I could fix up this Flying Scot and familiarize myself with all the parts and contraptions and terminology. I think I'm a decent judge of the condition of a boat. I have quite a bit of experience with old rotten fiberglass powerboats. Is there anything specific to the Flying Scot that I should look for? Should I consider some other type of boat? Should I forget about buying a boat for the time being? Any advice is welcome.


----------



## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

If the sailing club has reasonable fees, I would stick with that for the first year. The Flying Scott would be great boat to have for a first boat, and a second boat.  However, if you are going to be sailing primarily by yourself, you may want to start with a cat rigged boat. I don't know the market, but, you may pay a little premium for a Flying Scott because it is a class racing boat. Although, if you think you may someday be interested in racing that may be a good thing aim toward.


----------



## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

For sure, buying a Flying Scot is a reasonable way to go in my opinion. Just be aware, they are pretty powerful boats, they can easily get away from a beginner. Use less sail and be careful with how much wind you go out in.

You can grow with the boat. There are very experienced sailors sailing that sail Flying Scots, its a boat you may never grow out of, but might be a bit of a handful at first, especially single handed.


----------



## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

Amazing boats. Used to club race on these when I was a kid. As others have pointed out, be careful and plan on getting wet.


----------



## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

Mr. E said:


> Howdy folks. I'm a total noob to sailing and I'm considering buying an older Flying Scot. How bad of an idea is this? :grin Here's my back story:
> 
> I have quite a bit of experience on various power boats in the TVA lakes in Tennessee. Never been on a sailboat, though. Not many sailboats there because the lakes aren't very big and there is very little wind. But I've always enjoyed being on a boat, and the older I get the less appealing a fast gas guzzling power boat seems. Sailing sounds more interesting and relaxing and (potentially) cheaper.
> 
> For several years now, I've had the idea that I would like to learn to sail. Not sure where I got the idea, but I think I would enjoy it. I've recently moved up near Sandusky Ohio because of work, and it has occurred to me that I could learn to sail here. The local sailing club has an adult sailing class. Once they make out the schedule for this year I plan to sign up. But I'm thinking in the meantime I could fix up this Flying Scot and familiarize myself with all the parts and contraptions and terminology. I think I'm a decent judge of the condition of a boat. I have quite a bit of experience with old rotten fiberglass powerboats. Is there anything specific to the Flying Scot that I should look for? Should I consider some other type of boat? Should I forget about buying a boat for the time being? Any advice is welcome.


I used to sail FS with another club on Lake Arthur in PA ...

I do wonder how it'll be on lake Erie proper. Should be tons of fun in Sandusky bay, but I've been out on Lake Erie and had the waves coming over the bow of my Tartan 37. I would think a Flying Scott would be kinda small for that.


----------



## Mr. E (Jan 13, 2018)

Thanks for the advice, guys. I definitely don't want to take something like a flying scot out of the bay any time soon, if ever. I just want something fairly cheap and simple to learn with, but not so cheap and simple that it will bore me. I've seen people on this forum and others say that it's best to learn in a dinghy before you get a heavier keel boat. That makes sense to me, plus dinghies seem easier and cheaper. I like the fact that it's easy to step the mast on this size of boat and I can tow it home to store it or to do maintenance and repairs.

I've also found what looks like a good deal on a buccaneer. What do you guys think of those? Do you all think an outboard motor is necessary on boats like this, or can I get by ok with sails and a paddle? The Flying Scot I'm going to look at next week comes with a very old Sears outboard. As long as it isn't locked up I can probably make it run. The Buccaneer does not come with a motor.


----------



## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

MR. E. we are into some pretty subjective territory here. I am going to say what i think, but if the next guy says the exact opposite, i would get it.

I would sail a Scot on open Lake Erie. My first boat was a Fireball out of Goderich. 

However, if I was sailing a Scott on Lake Erie, it would definitely not have an engine. With an engine the boat will be easier to flip, harder to right and much more expensive to flip. No wind, no big deal, just take your time. Lots of wind- bad time to have an engine on a dinghy imo. This is just my opinion


----------



## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

I agree with Arcb regarding the outboard on a smaller boat. I clamped a 3 hp on our 15 foot albacore, it changed the sailing characteristics drastically...and not for the good. The experiment lasted until we were caught in a good wind.


----------



## Hudsonian (Apr 3, 2008)

+1 on Archb comments. Having sailed both I think the Flying Scot would be a better choice for a neophyte. 86 the engine.


----------



## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

While I understand the points against a motor on a boat that small ... man, you could end up with a LONG way to row if the wind decided to utterly fail on you. And a Scott is a pretty heavy boat to row.

I wouldn't want to go too far, even in Sandusky bay, without a motor in case the wind died or something went wrong with the sails. I know next to zero about outboards, but I've seen people with electric trolling motors mounted on a Scott. Not too much horsepower, but will get you back if things get uncooperative. I know the high end electric outboards (like the Torqeedo) are IP68 ... not sure if a trolling motor will survive being submersed.

My 16' Lugar Leeward didn't have a motor, and I once had to row the length of Lake Arthur to get back to the dock. Lake Arthur is a pretty small lake, but it convinced me that a motor is worth it.


----------



## Mr. E (Jan 13, 2018)

If I do get the Flying Scot with the old Sears outboard, I will definitely try to get it running. The seller said it ran about a decade ago. As a former (thank god) mechanic, I can't help myself. But I could experiment with sailing with or without the motor and see how big the difference is. It's pretty small, so maybe it wouldn't be a big deal to just tie it down in the boat to use if I have to. I have an old 7 1/2 horse Evinrude Fleetwin stored back in TN, and it would be kind of heavy to install on the water. But that little Sears looks half its size.


----------



## Sanduskysailor (Aug 1, 2008)

Mr E. Pass on the the Flying Scot for now. Take the sailing lessons, hang around SSC on Wednesday nights for crew opportunities. A FS is o'k for the bay but you would probably want another crew. Getting out to the lake will be a challenge on weekends and probably only prudent when the weather is right. You don't need an engine with the FS and 7-1/2 hp would be too heavy. I have sailed out of Sandusky for the last 25 years in all sorts of weather and I am a member of SSC. Learn to Sail - Adult


----------



## JoCoSailor (Dec 7, 2015)

Mr. E said:


> <cilp>...
> I've also found what looks like a good deal on a buccaneer. What do you guys think of those? Do you all think an outboard motor is necessary on boats like this, or can I get by ok with sails and a paddle? The Flying Scot I'm going to look at next week comes with a very old Sears outboard. As long as it isn't locked up I can probably make it run. The Buccaneer does not come with a motor.


IMO Take the Bucc!! Then I'm more than just a little prejudice. I love my Bucc and would not trade it for 2 FS. But, they are not for everybody. What year is it? Over the years there have been several different builders and many improvements. Unless the work has already been done any Bucc built before 1979 will be a project boat. If you're serious about the Bucc I can fill you in on tons of details.

Also, are you going to trailer this boat or will you be able to leave it with the mast standing?

Lew


----------



## Mr. E (Jan 13, 2018)

JoCoSailor said:


> IMO Take the Bucc!! Then I'm more than just a little prejudice. I love my Bucc and would not trade it for 2 FS. But, they are not for everybody. What year is it? Over the years there have been several different builders and many improvements. Unless the work has already been done any Bucc built before 1979 will be a project boat. If you're serious about the Bucc I can fill you in on tons of details.
> 
> Also, are you going to trailer this boat or will you be able to leave it with the mast standing?
> 
> Lew


The ad doesn't say what year it is, but I'm sure it's an older one. I'm starting to think I should heed some advice above and just wait a while. There's really no need to get in a hurry to buy a boat. I'm also starting to think I should get something a little more modern that is self-rescuing. Seems like that would be a really nice feature. Have you capsized or otherwise flooded your bucc? If so, how did you recover it?


----------



## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

I have posted all over the board in the past... I think the FS was a great design around the end of WWII when it was new. Today there are much better boats available everywhere for the same price. The FS is the sailing equivalent of a 1954 F-150... It may be awesome as a restored collector car, but it would make an absolutely awful daily driver.


----------



## JoCoSailor (Dec 7, 2015)

Mr. E said:


> The ad doesn't say what year it is, but I'm sure it's an older one. I'm starting to think I should heed some advice above and just wait a while. There's really no need to get in a hurry to buy a boat. I'm also starting to think I should get something a little more modern that is self-rescuing. Seems like that would be a really nice feature. Have you capsized or otherwise flooded your bucc? If so, how did you recover it?


I too think waiting is a good idea. Choosing a boat is a really personal thing and you won't know what you like until sailed on different boats.

Knock on wood. I have not capsized my. I've had it on its ear with the rails in the water and water coming in. Mines an older Bucc and bailers don't suck water out. I'm going to replace with bailers that do. I've been in new bucc's that have them and they work pretty well. As far recover again depends on the year. 79 (I think) and newer are sealed under the deck and not hard to cover. PM me and I send to a word doc with pix of it being done. Older can be sealed up too.


----------



## Mr. E (Jan 13, 2018)

JoCoSailor said:


> I too think waiting is a good idea. Choosing a boat is a really personal thing and you won't know what you like until sailed on different boats.
> 
> Knock on wood. I have not capsized my. I've had it on its ear with the rails in the water and water coming in. Mines an older Bucc and bailers don't suck water out. I'm going to replace with bailers that do. I've been in new bucc's that have them and they work pretty well. As far recover again depends on the year. 79 (I think) and newer are sealed under the deck and not hard to cover. PM me and I send to a word doc with pix of it being done. Older can be sealed up too.


I would like to see that word doc, but I can't PM yet because I don't have enough posts. If a bucc can be made to be recoverable by one person, it might fit the bill. I should read up on them some more. Do you single hand yours? I do remember reading that they have a relatively large sail/displacement ratio, which makes them "challenging" for a noob like me, and also better in light air. I might be ok with that. Once I learn to use it, I might trailer it back to Tennessee when I visit and use it on Norris Lake. It's rare to see anything more than light winds there during warm weather. I don't think any of my friends back home have ever sailed, so that could be fun.

But I don't know how to sail yet, or how suitable a bucc would be for Sandusky Bay, or what kind of access to boats I would have through the sailing club, or a million other things. I'll wait until I know a little more before I buy something.


----------



## JoCoSailor (Dec 7, 2015)

Mr. E said:


> I would like to see that word doc, but I can't PM yet because I don't have enough posts. If a bucc can be made to be recoverable by one person, it might fit the bill. I should read up on them some more. Do you single hand yours? I do remember reading that they have a relatively large sail/displacement ratio, which makes them "challenging" for a noob like me, and also better in light air. I might be ok with that. Once I learn to use it, I might trailer it back to Tennessee when I visit and use it on Norris Lake. It's rare to see anything more than light winds there during warm weather. I don't think any of my friends back home have ever sailed, so that could be fun.
> 
> But I don't know how to sail yet, or how suitable a bucc would be for Sandusky Bay, or what kind of access to boats I would have through the sailing club, or a million other things. I'll wait until I know a little more before I buy something.


There are some great resources on the net for Bucc's (links below) they darn near made me an expert ;-). Yes, they do have large sail/displacement ratio (44.51/1), a planing hull, and spinnaker. Makes them fast and fun to sail. I'll admit I'm just learning about flying spinnaker, but really glad my boat has one.

I bought mine after only sailing one summer. The only time I've been uncomfortable was first time sailing downwind in 12+ winds (you'll learn about the danger of that and accidental jibes). I know don't about Sandusky Bay. I did crew on Bucc in the Patuxent River at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay without any problems.

Single handing: For day sailing no problem. If it gets too hard. I can always furl the jib (put away the front sail) by pulling one string. I've done it racing, but I'm much slower ;(. To me the big issue with single handing. Is not sailing the boat on the water. It's stepping (rasing) the mast and lunching it the water. And then getting it back on the trailer unstepping the mast and putting every way when I'm tired. Note bucc's 80's and newer have much better setup (high step) for stepping the mast which makes doing it snap. (again I plan to upgrade mine (a low step) to that same setup. Are you seeing a theme here? I've already done 5 or 6 upgrades to my boat and have about that many to go. Good news most are just for racing though).

Here's the bucc class ass'n site Buccaneer 18 The Sailing Experience

Here's list of the fleets Fleet Page

Mutineers are Bucc little brother and many parts are the same. Their site has great info about both boats http://www.mutineer15.org/

The best resource for buccs the Yahoo group https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Bucc18/info The file archive there has about all you'd ever need to know buying maintain and upgrading a bucc. You have to request to join the group to get access to them. anything you don't find there the guys on the list answer.

Here a video showing how to step a low step mast 



 Jimmy the guy doing it makes it really easy and has been accused using ticks to edit it  but it will give some idea how it's done.

I agree don't buy a boat now. Check youtube for other videos, pick up a used book or two on Amazon. Think about the wind every time you step out side. Which direction is coming from. how strong is it? is gusting? is shifting? Go the lake and just watch the water while feeling the wind, you'll soon learn how to "see" the wind.

Best of luck,
Lew


----------



## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

I think sailing dinghies should be self-rescuing, and keel boats should survive a knockdown without sinking. The idea is that in the dinghy you should not worry too much about capsizing because you can get the boat back up. In keel boats you shouldn't worry about capsizing because it would be really unlikely and, the boat should pop back up by herself. Capsizing and righting dinghies is part of most beginning sailing school classes. It can actually be a lot of fun.


----------

