# Cruising gear advise needed "LIST"



## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

We are planning to untie the lines in the fall of 2018. 
As some of you know, I have purchased a 1981 C&C 30 MK 1 sloop. She was a mess but I got her for cheep. I have done a great deal of work and some up fit work, already. I need your help. I'm not sure how to proceed.
First I will give you a list of what I have done.

New dynemma life lines.
New 2gm20f Yanmar engine
New RACOR 500FG FUEL FILTER WATER SEPARATOR
New running rigging
New Hydrostatic PFDs
New Matrix AIS/GPS (GX2200) 
New thru-hull's x 5 
New LED steamer light
New LED cabin lights
New LED running lights
New LED anchor lights.
New AM/FM Radio
New Garmin Echo50s GPS
Rebuilt the Auto-helm 4000
ST50 wind direction and speed
ST50 depth and hull speed
All bulk heads checked
Chine plates inspected
Bottom cleaned and panted.
All cushions re-covered
Hillerange 3 burner, gimballed pressure alcohol stove "REBUILT" works great.

Boat tankage now 
Starboard settee 18 water
V-birth 10 water
port holding 13 gal
Fuel 20 gal

What I am asking advise for on the following items that have not been addressed so for. Questions are what Brand, Size, Type, New, Used, Not needed ect.

Honda generator
Solar panels
wind generator
Water heater
Inverter
SSB with weather
EPIRB
Jack lines
cockpit cushions
Dodger
Dinghy
outboard motor
Monitor self-steering vane
windless anchor system
DVD player
refrigerator or build into the existing icebox a Yetti

Again what i'm looking for is advice on things that you think I need or don't need. Things you will need to know to help. 
1) "It will be my wife and I"
2)"We will be harbor hopping up and down the eastern seaboard" we will end up in the Caribbean and Bahama's
3)"She will want to see movies in the evenings.
4) She does want to keep cool food for 4 to 5 days".
5) "She wants hot water".

Here is the other thing. She has asked me if I thing its going to be big enough? Is it too small? I told her is the maintenance and overall cost is a lot better on a 30 foot boat. But I screwed up and Chartered the 36 I down in the BVI this past spring. She thinks that boat was much better in size. Well the problem is that my boat is paid for and I don't have money for another larger boat in the budget. So the other question I don't want to ruin her wanting to sail with me because the boat is too small. Should I start looking and making a plan with a larger boat? I would hate to keep up-fitting this boat if she will never be happy on it. I am around 10 grand into this boat. All the other items if put into this boat, the boat will never be recouped if sold.

P.S She is a all hank on boat.
2 main sail's
114% reefing head sail
135% gen
155% gen
170% drifter
and a Asymmetrical in a sock.
All line's led to cockpit. Still a lot of work.










Thanks again for your advise.
LT


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

ltgoshen said:


> Here is the other thing. She has asked me if I thing its going to be big enough? Is it too small? I told her is the maintenance and overall cost is a lot better on a 30 foot boat. But I screwed up and Chartered the 36 I down in the BVI this past spring. She thinks that boat was much better in size...


Well, I sail a 30-footer, but only liveaboard for the duration of each cruise... When I'm alone, she suits me fine... But when I have company, things can get very tight, very quickly... 

Only you can answer that question, of course - some couples seem to manage just fine on a boat of that size. But in my observation, they are a bit of a rarity out there today, and most more 'mature' couples are on boats considerably larger, at least closer to the mid-30's or so...

I STRONGLY suggest you try an extended shakedown aboard your present boat before making a final decision, or proceeding much further... Trust me, if the size of the boat is likely to be an issue, it won't take long for that problem to surface... 

Stuff like a Honda generator will occupy a surprising amount of your storage space on such a boat. Mock up a cardboard box the size of a Honda 2000 (which everyone seems to think is essential these days) and stick it somewhere. Sorry, but you're gonna have to ditch some of those sails. A second mainsail, and that 155 genoa, is gonna eat up much of your precious storage space, as well. That alone is one of the best arguments for headsail furling on a cruising boat of that size. Whenever I remove my sails and stow them below, the space in which to LIVE on board is reduced dramatically...

Other things on your list strike me as perhaps a bit superfluous... I'm a huge proponent of windvanes, for example - but why do you feel you'd need one for "harbor hopping" down the coast, and thru the Bahamas to the Islands? Put your money into a good AP, that alone should be more than sufficient for such a trip...

But seriously, the size issue is the one you must address first, that's likely to be the one that makes, or breaks, such an endeavor...


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## celenoglu (Dec 13, 2008)

Replace standing rigging


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Don't see mention of refrigeration.. either as 'should I' or 'I have'.. that bit of info will impact your electrical needs.

Read Jon's post over several times.. all good points.

Maybe book a week on a lake in a Catalina 22 to put your 30 footer back on the 'big' side comparison wise 

Solar, adequate batter bank, and good alternator/regulator combo should make a Honda superfluous.. and who wants to pack that gasoline around anyhow? Remember to add the volume of the jerry can to the mockup of the generator when it comes to finding storage.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

> She has asked me if I thing its going to be big enough?


That's the kind of thing you never want to hear from a woman ain't it ??


> She thinks that boat was much better in size.


Yeah, once they've gone bigger they never look back, mine likes ultra leather interiors, too.


> So the other question I don't want to ruin her wanting to sail with me because the boat is too small.


I don't think you can trick her into thinking it got bigger.


> I would hate to keep up-fitting this boat if she will never be happy on it.


I don't see her getting any happier with it


> 4) She does want to keep cool food for 4 to 5 days".
> "She wants hot water".


Me too, refrigeration and running hot water required.


> Should I start looking and making a plan with a larger boat?


I sure would, but I've kept the same wife for 40 years and gotten different boats, much cheaper than the other way round.


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

refrigerator or build into the existing icebox a Yetti ?

4) She does want to keep cool food for 4 to 5 days".

I could do like 2 more batteries for the house and charge them once in a while. We did that while we were in the BVI. We had good power while on the hook at night.

All good points


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

ltgoshen said:


> ...
> 
> Here is the other thing. She has asked me if I thing its going to be big enough? Is it too small? I told her is the maintenance and overall cost is a lot better on a 30 foot boat. But I screwed up and Chartered the 36 I down in the BVI this past spring. She thinks that boat was much better in size. Well the problem is that my boat is paid for and I don't have money for another larger boat in the budget. So the other question I don't want to ruin her wanting to sail with me because the boat is too small. Should I start looking and making a plan with a larger boat? I would hate to keep up-fitting this boat if she will never be happy on it. I am around 10 grand into this boat. All the other items if put into this boat, the boat will never be recouped if sold.
> ...


It sounds like your wife wasn't part of the restoration process? If I remember correctly, you've been at it for a while. Plenty of time to determine if the size is sufficient. If you don't have the money for a larger boat, I'm not sure what you can do other than hope she's willing to live with what you have. Also, I'd probably not count on getting what you put into the boat if you sell it. It might happen, but that's not the norm.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Nix the Honda generator and wind generator, SSB, Water heater assuming it is using the engine as the heat source..

Aluminium arch with cross bar that allows the solar panels to be tilted. 300 watts + of solar. Good MPPT controller. Solar shower. Get the heavy duty thick plastic one if you can find it, else buy two of the thinner ones

Water is going to be a problem for you. I am a liveaboard and consider 150 galls water tankage to be the minimum. You have 28 gallons 3 days average use for two people. An awning with a water catchment system will help but in the Caribbean and Bahamas weeks without rain are not uncommon.


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

DRFerron said:


> It sounds like your wife wasn't part of the restoration process? If I remember correctly, you've been at it for a while. Plenty of time to determine if the size is sufficient. If you don't have the money for a larger boat, I'm not sure what you can do other than hope she's willing to live with what you have. Also, I'd probably not count on getting what you put into the boat if you sell it. It might happen, but that's not the norm.


Your right that it will never return my money. But not right on her being there. She has helped me a great deal on the refit and in-fact we are working on this project together. "I think that is fantastic" Its great when she brings things up that we need to do or think about. She is finely on board. We may be able to squeeze out some money for a larger boat if needed? But the first year we will use this one for sure. I just don't want to sink precious sailing kitty into getting a bigger boat and refitting it again. Thanks for your incite.


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

TQA said:


> Nix the Honda generator and wind generator, SSB, Water heater assuming it is using the engine as the heat source..


Not sure I understand this?
Nix = don't do it?


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

You are going in 4 years time?

I wouldnt buy one more thing now.

Just go sailing and learn the important bit... How the boat works.

When not sailing save every dollar.




Mark


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

ltgoshen said:


> Your right that it will never return my money. But not right on her being there. She has helped me a great deal on the refit and in-fact we are working on this project together. "I think that is fantastic" Its great when she brings things up that we need to do or think about. She is finely on board. We may be able to squeeze out some money for a larger boat if needed? But the first year we will use this one for sure. I just don't want to sink precious sailing kitty into getting a bigger boat and refitting it again. Thanks for your incite.


I'm glad she's been working with you. Don't forget that after you eventually buy the bigger boat, your expenses and maintenance costs are going way up. 30 is at some kind of weird fence where once you tip over into the other side, the costs aren't in small increments. I'm gathering that 40 is the same. I'm trying to keep our next boat, on which we'll spend most of each year living on, under that 40 mark.

For us, we'd rather have a slightly smaller boat with comfortable costs than a large boat with costs that make us afraid to spend any money for fear we won't have it when something on the boat breaks. Everyone approaches it differently, however. If you and your wife are communicating well with each other, you'll figure it out together.


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

DRFerron said:


> .
> 
> For us, we'd rather have a slightly smaller boat with comfortable costs than a large boat with costs that make us afraid to spend any money for fear we won't have it when something on the boat breaks. Everyone approaches it differently, however. If you and your wife are communicating well with each other, you'll figure it out together.


Great point here. I don't want to be boat poor. I want to be able to see the sights and visit the ports without being cash poor. If we size up it may put a cramp in that style. We are both very frugal and do well gathering cash she will be doing software from time to time. I will be doing transportation training as a consultant, to help fill the gap. I will be 55 she will be 54 when we leave so when we get tired in say 5 or 6 years into it we can just come home and retire.
We do communicate well, "my wife and I" So I think it will be fine. I just wanted some feedback of the up-size, don't up-size issue and if it would make it seam more like a home to up-fit with the for mentioned items. I want her to feel safe and comfortable and not want to go home. 
I don't want to make her feel like she is on a camping trip.


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

DRFerron said:


> I'm glad she's been working with you. Don't forget that after you eventually buy the bigger boat, your expenses and maintenance costs are going way up. 30 is at some kind of weird fence where once you tip over into the other side, the costs aren't in small increments. I'm gathering that 40 is the same. I'm trying to keep our next boat, on which we'll spend most of each year living on, under that 40 mark.
> 
> For us, we'd rather have a slightly smaller boat with comfortable costs than a large boat with costs that make us afraid to spend any money for fear we won't have it when something on the boat breaks. Everyone approaches it differently, however. If you and your wife are communicating well with each other, you'll figure it out together.


So your 30 footer, does it seam too small?


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

What TQA said about solar panels and batteries and solar showers, although I'd carry at least 4 solar showers for 2 people (I Always like to have extras full on the deck and the cheap ones don't last too long). The dodger is also ESSENTIAL and a bimini and some way of fixing side curtains (it could be just an old bedsheet you tie up). When you get to the tropics you'll NEED sun protection if you're going to use your cockpit- and believe me, you will in the tropics! Otherwise, it looks good to go!


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

JonEisberg said:


> .
> 
> I STRONGLY suggest you try an extended shakedown aboard your present boat before making a final decision, or proceeding much further... Trust me, if the size of the boat is likely to be an issue, it won't take long for that problem to surface...


This is a great Idea.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

ltgoshen said:


> So your 30 footer, does it seam too small?


No. But we don't live on it and we're not on it for a week or so at a stretch without putting into a marina or anchoring. That's what the next boat is for. Our 30 footer is perfect for how and where we sail now. You may feel differently on your boat depending on your needs and lifestyle.

Also, I don't consider it camping because we choose to not live like that when on the boat. We eat well, we have what we need to keep us occupied when at anchor or after docking. After a long sail I love anchoring and watching the sunset with a glass of wine and a good meal. If I wanted to go camping I'd find the closest forest.


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

Size is a relative thing. I think if you set up your boat so you have basic needs and comforts met (a very personal choice), a small boat can be great. I cruise on a 35ft boat with my wife and 2 kids. For me, the size is great and I could go smaller if I cruised as a couple. For us, the essentials are a good bed, galley with counter space and everything to cook nice meals, fridge and comfortable seating at the salon table and in the cockpit. To this I'd also add good ventilation and sun protection in the cockpit. You could try making a list with your wife of what you both feel you really need on the boat and then see if you can modify or fit them in your current boat. I suspect if you can't meet these needs with your current boat you'll soon be looking for another. Hopefully Veja (Albin 27) and Greg and Jill (Norsea 27) will chime in with their views on living on a small boat. Both have made it work remarkably well.


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

copacabana said:


> S Hopefully Veja (Albin 27) and Greg and Jill (Norsea 27) will chime in with their views on living on a small boat. Both have made it work remarkably well.


Here is a couple I have been following for a while and their boat seams to be a great size.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Itgoshen, You and I are in the same (figurative) boat. Our schedule for Mexico is 2015 or 2016 and we are close together from the boat preparation standpoint (I really need to write down my projects list!) From a size standpoint, we are a little bigger and MrsB would love a 42 footer. But like you it is a case of go small, go now or go large and perhaps go never. I’m having to be a bit creative in making my boat “feel” bigger. You need to be a bit more creative. Jon Eisberg will do back flips, but I’m planning on jerry jugs and dinghy as “deck cargo”. I encourage you to do a lot of weekending and weekly trips to winnow out what is needed, nice to have or don’t bother. MrsB is fond of saying “the boat shrinks a foot every couple of days.” What you don’t have on your list is an upgraded electrical charging system. Hand in hand you will want to work out an energy budget as you will be surprised how many electrons you will consume each day at sea. We are forgoing the wind generator and monitor and instead doing solar and autohelm. We have refrigeration and hot water and heartily recommend both. An SSB is going to set you back a few kilo bucks and probably not needed where you’re going (MrsB insists that I remain connected so I’m going the Sailmail route.

Good food for thought! Let’s stay connected and continue to share thoughts and ideas.


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

GeorgeB said:


> Itgoshen, You and I are in the same (figurative) boat. Our schedule for Mexico is 2015 or 2016 and we are close from the boat preparation standpoint (I really need to write down my projects list!) From a size standpoint, we are a little bigger and MrsB would love a 42 footer. But like you it is a case of go small go now or go large and perhaps go never. I'm having to be a bit creative in making my boat "feel" bigger. You need to be a bit more creative. Jon Eisberg will do back flips, but I'm planning on jerry jugs and dinghy as "deck cargo". I encourage you to do a lot of weekending and weekly trips to winnow out what is needed, nice to have or don't bother. MrsB is fond of saying "the boat shrinks a foot every couple of days." What you don't have on your list is an upgraded electrical charging system. Hand in hand you will want to work out an energy budget as you will be surprised how many electrons you will consume each day at sea. We are forgoing the wind generator and monitor and instead doing solar and autohelm. We have refrigeration and hot water and heartily recommend both. An SSB is going to set you back a few kilo bucks and probably not needed where you're going (MrsB insists that I remain connected so I'm going the Sailmail route.
> 
> Good food for thought! Let's stay connected and continue to share thoughts and ideas.


Your quite right on the power thing. I don't mind invest in in 2 house battery's. I'm not sure how much is needed and how to calculate that stuff. We have a lot to learn in the area of consumption / production on electricity. I hope this fall and winter we will go away for a few days here and there to Charleston and Savannah, to get a better feel of how much power is needed to gunk hole 3 to 4 nights at a time. Thanks for your help. I have a long way to go and I have a great sense of urgency. I need to go...


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Every year, different friends of ours take off for south of the border and their last year is always consumed by massive boat projects. They often are in a mad dash to get them completed in San Diego when they ought to be sampling the last bit of ****** culture before the border. It is never too early to be prepping your boat. Your sense of urgency is really smart thinking IMHO. I have a couple of energy budget spreadsheets in excel that I can sent you. West Marine has an example as does the Pacific cup web site. I think power at anchor is simple (just keep the solar panels pointed towards the sun). The hard part is those overnight to multi day passages where in addition to your house loads (Refrigeration will “cost” you 2.5 – 4 amps per hour depending upon your insulation and ambient temperatures), you will be running a chart plotter, radio, instruments, lights, etc. It adds up in a hurry.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

ltgoshen said:


> I'm not sure how much is needed and how to calculate that stuff. We have a lot to learn in the area of consumption / production on electricity.


Look, this may sound crazy to someone not "out there" but you cant determine, and I doubt you should now.

Its only when you are aboard for months do you see, and feel, how your electrics and everything else can cope.

Things change so much. In inly a year soemthing ,ay drop, or raise, in price s much it makes last years calculations plain wrong.

Its probably best to go to sea and see. And then buy what you need when you get there, not before.

Americans are lucky because your first cruising jaunts are close to good shops to buy the kit you now realise is necessary.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Water treatment and filtration. Did birds poop on your rain catchment? Does the wife like the taste of the tank water?

The correct answer varies with your needs, but it is NOT a carbon filter from Home Depot or West Marine.

Otherwise, you're talking about a lot of bottled water and washing your plates and vegies with questionable water.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

On your to do list I would say yes to:

The dodger 
The jack-lines, not a big expense. 
The refrigeration.. add to existing ice box if properly insulated.
Solar
The dinghy and outboard.
And perhaps the windless

If she wants Hot water...you better give her hot water. 
Inverter..evaluate your needs after you travel a bit. 

Not necessary:

Custom Cockpit cushions $$ ( you can use those portable WM cushions.)
SSB is not necessary for coastal cruising. 
Same for Wind Vane
DVD players are dirt cheap..so buy one if you want. 
Epirbs you can rent...if needed when you go offshore 


I would get a roller furling..it will make life a lot easier


I wouldn't buy anything until you know that this is the boat. I would postpone as much as I could until it's closer to the time you leave, unless you'll use it immediately. 

For instance..there's no sense to having a Dinghy and a motor sitting around for 4 years unused.


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

GeorgeB said:


> . I have a couple of energy budget spreadsheets in excel that I can sent you. West Marine has an example as does the Pacific cup web site. I think power at anchor is simple (just keep the solar panels pointed towards the sun).


please send them any help I can get at this point will be great. Power consumption i need to learn how to count it. How to calculate its 
usage and replenishment.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

ltgoshen said:


> Not sure I understand this?
> Nix = don't do it?


No to the list of items I gave. You do not want them.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

No BBQ?


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

aeventyr60 said:


> No BBQ?


Yes I have the SS MAGMA but it is charcoal not gas.
Charcoal is a pain in the but with keeping it dry and needing more of it.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

If you already have a propane stove then a propane bbq is a logical choice. Charcoal IS a pita on a boat.

If you stay in areas where fuel and water is readily available, battery charging will be your biggest need, I suspect.


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

Hey Ron, I have a 
Hillerange 3 burner, gimballed pressure alcohol stove "REBUILT" works great.

I have a stainless bbq grill. "charcoal" thinking of going to a little spin on gas canisters. I will trade up.


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