# totally new to this



## New2this (Jan 23, 2012)

greetings, my name is Cory. I was born and raised in Florida, always near the water, and currently I am in Miami, on Biscayne Bay. I have always been comfortable with the water, I love to surf, dive, snorkel, fish etc, anything to do with the ocean and I am there. Recently I came to the decision to live on a sailboat, and I guess I am looking for some advice for living on board.

for example, would this boat be acceptable for living aboard ?

21' Santana Sailboat

(I realize I need to learn to actually sail a boat. Right now I am looking more for information on rules and regulations regarding where I can anchor and, stuff like that.)

Its good to be here, I am very excited about learning to sail and living on a boat!


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Are you planning on staying at a marina or hooking up to a mooring ball? if you're not going to stay at a marina, how do you plan to cook, store cold food, go to the bathroom or shower? yes you can do all those things on a 21 footer for a short time, kinda like camping, but long term? That's a rough lifestyle. Speaking for myself, I wouldn't go with anything less than 25-26 feet and there is a huge difference in interior space between 21 and 25 feet.


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## New2this (Jan 23, 2012)

I do not plan on staying at a marina, I have friends that will let me shower and store things with. I am a not really concerned about the space issue. I was more interested in knowing if the boat is seaworthy, and capable of traveling some long voyages. 

as for refrigeration. what is the electrical situation for a small boat? Is is possible to have batteries and solar/wind to run small appliances? if not I guess ice?


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

When you say long voyages, just what do you have in mind?
Yes, you can load up on batteries to run electrical appliances , but again, just what do you have in mind? A computer or small TV or do you want to run a electric hot plate or air conditioner?
We need a lot more details.
how do you plan on going to the bathroom? You going to have to take a port-o-potti to shore every couple of days to empty it.


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## VK540 (May 6, 2011)

Release the hounds! Just kidding. Not sure of your budget but Chuck has some very good advise! A 26 footer shouldn't set you back too much, could be ready to sail and wayyyy more comfy if you do some shopping. They seem to be very reasonably priced and lots of them around. At the end of the day it's your choice but do some serious window shopping and kick some tires. Start with Yachtworld.com and use the advanced search engine. You might be surprised what you find.


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## New2this (Jan 23, 2012)

well I'd like to go up and down the east coast, they keys, maybe the bahamas, maybe further? I know im getting way ahead of myself. 

as for appliances, nothing heavy. a laptop, small light, fans, maybe a small fridge/hotplate if thats feesable 

I would use the bathroom on shore, at least for #2. I have no problem peeing in a gallon bottle and dumping it on shore. 

thank you for the help


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Going up and down the east coast...if you stay in the ICW, sure. Don't think I'd want to take that boat off shore.
As far as battery power, unless you put a lot of battery power on that boat, a hot plate is out of the question. A very small fridge, maybe if you have some large solar panels. lights and a very small TV, yes.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Have you actually looked at this boat or only seen the ad?
Doesn't mention having a motor...you're going to need one.


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## deow (Dec 25, 2011)

New2this said:


> for example, would this boat be acceptable for living aboard ?
> 
> 21' Santana Sailboat


That's very small. I sure wouldn't even consider living on that. 28' would be the minimum that I'd like to try.


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## New2this (Jan 23, 2012)

no I have not looked at it. how big an engine would I need? 

The small size appeals to me because I imagine it would be easy to sail..

can one person easily operate a 25 foot vessel? how about 30?


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## VK540 (May 6, 2011)

New2this said:


> no I have not looked at it. how big an engine would I need?
> 
> The small size appeals to me because I imagine it would be easy to sail..
> 
> can one person easily operate a 25 foot vessel? how about 30?


I have no problem single handing my 38 foot. Just depends on how the boat is set up.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Some years ago, my brother's first boat was a 22' Santana. if I recall, he had a 3 HP motor on it and it did fine. I'm sure some here will tell you to have at least 5.
As far as the size of a boat goes, I could single hand my 34. it all depends on how it is equipped. Some will say larger boats are easier to handle than small ones, but you do need to learn how to sail first.
My first boat was a 30' Catalina and I had very little sailing experience before buying it.


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## deow (Dec 25, 2011)

New2this said:


> The small size appeals to me because I imagine it would be easy to sail..
> 
> can one person easily operate a 25 foot vessel? how about 30?


Some other considerations: how tall are you? You won't get headroom on a small boat. Or a head. Or a galley. You have to decide what you can live with.

I'm only researching possiblities myself, but I think that one can single-hand a 30' to 40' boat well enough if it's rigged for it.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

deow said:


> Some other considerations: how tall are you? You won't get headroom on a small boat. Or a head. Or a galley. You have to decide what you can live with.


Or rather, what can you live without. A 21 footer won't offer much as far as amenities go. Again, it won't be much different than camping.

My 30' Catalina was a nice boat, but my 34' Catalina offers a lot more. A gas stove/oven as opposed to an alcohol stove. A refrigerated ice box. A water heater. More battery power. More fresh water storage.
And actually, my 34' is much better equipped to single hand than my 30' was. Of course it is a newer model and came from the factory with more options than the 30 did.


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## New2this (Jan 23, 2012)

I will look at it tomorrow, to get a sense of the size. I understand it will not be luxurious, im not too concerned about it. Im a young guy in college, I can rough it at this juncture in my life. 

How far could this boat safely travel away from shore? Is it just a matter of proper navigation and watching the weather?

I may very well get a little bit larger boat, based on what you guys are saying. I do appreciate the input!


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

That's not an offshore boat. If it were mine, it would never leave the sight of land. 
Not to say it's not a decent boat, in fact, it may serve you well for a year or two while you get your sailing legs. But I sure as heck would not plan on sailing the Caribbean in it.
For that, you need a boat set up for long distance, open water cruising and the size of the boat is only one consideration.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Something to think about. the Santana 21 has a 550 lbs. swing keel. that's great to have if you are trailering your boat a lot or sailing in some real skinny water. Not so great when a strong gust of wind hits you unexpectedly and knocks the boat over.
The Santana 22 my brother used to have has a 1200 lbs. fixed keel. That keel will greatly lower the center of gravity on the boat and make it much less susceptible to a knock over.
That's just one reason the 21 is really made to be used in protected waters, not the open sea.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

So New, we're anxious to hear about the boat. Is it doable? Inquiring minds want to know. Details...we want details.


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## Lflowers230 (Jan 7, 2012)

I consider my sailing experince level as to be a newbie. I have only sailed Lasers and Hobie 16's and that was ten years ago. So whatever I say can be taken with a grain of salt or an honest analysis.

I am currently waiting to buy my first sailboat too but I'm quite concerned on what I can do with a 24 foot sloop. When learning to sail back at the age of 27, and that being on a Laser, I almost said "the hell with it". I was being taught by people that had a lifetime of experience of sailing and cruising but the sharks and the current that swept through the atoll and the sheer sensitivity of that little boat almost got the best of me. The required us to learn on the laser before we were allowed to get the hobie. As far as I was concerned the hobie was like flying a kite and the laser was like jumping in to a rocket ship without any flight training. Anyways, I eventually got the hang of it and miss sailing those little rocket ships. I was told by those that taught me that if I could sail a laser I could sail anything. We'll see, as I often wonder if learning to sail a laser is as hard for everyone as it was for me. My point being, it's one thing to camp on a small boat at the dock, but sailing in in the ocean is a whole nother ballgame. Not that it can't be done though.

The boat that I am purchasing tomorrow is a 24ft S2 sloop. Now, I will be mostly contained to an inland lake but I know myself and know that I will do everything I can to broaden my sailing area. At 24 ft. I think for me would be about the smallest I could stand. Being alone would leave plenty of room for supplies and a little comfort but I have a wife so sailing alone isn't an option for me. We could probably handle some gulf coast cruising but that'd be our limit. But that's just us and what I think my experience could handle.

The bottom line is learn to sail first. You will find that the experience will put things in to perspective. That being what you can do, won't do, or shouldn't do. You will also find that the ocean or large expanses of water can be quite daunting. I've been out in the Pacific on "nice" days that had 30 foot swells. Yeah, it was kinda fun but I wasn't out their alone. We were on a fishing boat with the land in sight but I decided then ad there that it was not something to take lightly. 

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## New2this (Jan 23, 2012)

I have had some experience with high seas, always on powerboats granted, but I know enough not to mess with mother nature. I would never attempt something that was outside of my ability. I have been watching some videos on sailing, I think I understand the basic principles. Its sort of becomes intuitive once you get the hang of it?

looked at the Santana, was just too small, I could not even sit up inside it

im going to look at this next classic sailboat 28"

where is the best place to find a used boat? someoene mentioned yachtworld..

I will keep you guys posted, I am definitely doing this though, and soon


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## Lflowers230 (Jan 7, 2012)

Try these:

27' Catalina sailboat

http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/boa/2798883723.html

http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/boa/2803090596.html


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Yes,
yachtworld.com
boattraderonline.com
sailboatlistings.com
continue to look on craigslist.

As I said earlier, I don't think you want anything less than 25-26' and closer to 30 would be better.

What is your budget? I'm guessing, not too big which means whatever you find is not going to be a open water boat. Coastal and protected waters only, which isn't bad as you get to live aboard and learn to sail.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

New2this,
I sent you an email.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

new2, 
Look around for your local "power squadron" boating safety class. May not be until spring at this point, but in order to operate a motor vessel in Florida you will need a boating safety certificate, and that's about $45 for a Saturday course. It will be taught by local boaters (sailors, not just power boaters) and give you a good fast education--and an introduction to local folks who can probably take you out on the water and answer your questions.
Many states are requiring the same certification these days, and the one you get will be good for all of them.

As to boat size, engines...boy is that a wider topic.


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## New2this (Jan 23, 2012)

My budget is about 5000, give or take. 

Chuck after reading your email, and looking at how small the 21 was inside, I think im gonna go for a 30'+

I was trying to get one within the week, so as to avoid paying another months rent where I am staying, but I can see I need to slow things down and make an informed decision. Im going to look into a sailing class as well.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

OK, a 30 footer will be doable on $5000, but most likely it's going to be pretty old and in rough shape. Take a look at some Catalina 27's. Even dropping down to a C-27, it's going to be hard to find anything halfway decent on $5000. 
I think you will be pleasanty surprised as to how much room a C-27 has - Way, way more room than the 21 you looked at. Full standing room and a compleately enclosed head, probably with a shower. Enough room that you can have 2-3 people comfortably spend a few days with you.
Yes, take your time, look at a number of boats, take pictures and note the plusses and minuses of each.

As far as classes go, as mentioned, you will most likely need, at least, a boating safety class. After that, both the US Power - Sail Squadron and the Coast Guard Aux. offer seamanship classes and more advanced boating classes. Yes, a hand's on sailing class will be good, but it's going to take a big bite out of your budget..

When you do find a boat that looks like the one to buy, make sure you find a good, marine surveyor to do a full survey on the boat. A survey is going to run you anywhere from $15-25 per foot depending on the skill and experience of the surveyor. Part of the survey will have the boat hauled to check out the bottom of the boat. That's going to cost you another couple hundred dollars. If you think you can pass on the survey, don't. Surveyors often find problems that could cost big bucks to fix. Also, if you plan on insuring the boat, no insurance company will touch it without a survey report.

When you find a boat that looks interesting, don't hesitate to post it here and let other members give you their 5 cents opinion on them.
A few months ago, another newbie came on here looking for advice to buy a boat to liveaboard and do some traveling just like you. We exchanged a number of posts and emails and ended up, I actually found the boat that he ended up buying. The guy is happy as a clam.

You say you don't want to live at a marina, but instead, want to anchor or hang onto a moring ball. If you do that, have you looked into getting some kind of a dinghy to get to and from shore with?


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## New2this (Jan 23, 2012)

I looked at a 28 foot today. It was MUCH bigger than the 21, I could definitely see myself living on it. The guy was not willing to come down enough on the price, but it gave me a better idea of the size aspect 

And yes I do want to stay out on the water, so as far as a dinghy gos. What would be ideal? A zodiac that I can wench out of the water? Is there a way, if I was to buy a decent outboard motor, that I could use it on both the dinghy AND the large boat? 

I will not forgo the survey, I dont know anything about the structural integrity of a boat, its not something I want to worry about on a stormy night at sea. I highly doubt I will get insurance however


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

A couple of things, when you get into larger boats, most of them will come with inboards, which is the way to go. You will still see a few with the old Atomic 4 gas engine, but most will be diesel. Even if you find a boat with an outboard, you will soon find switching the motor from one boat to another will be a major PIA. We have a close friend you used to have a 26' with an outboard. He hated it and is very glad to now have an inboard.

I'd rethink your feelings on insurance. Not a good idea to forgo that.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

New2this said:


> Is there a way, if I was to buy a decent outboard motor, that I could use it on both the dinghy AND the large boat?


An outboard for a sailboat would ideally have a long shaft, too long for use on a dinghy. If you try to use a short shaft outboard on most sailboats, your prop will be out of the water more than in, especially in chop. Our first boat had a short shaft and after replacing it with a long shaft I wondered how we put up with the other for so long.


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