# Lazy Jacks, anyone?



## JohnChristopherBalch (Jan 7, 2012)

A project I am planning for next spring is the installation of a lazy jack system on my Tanzer 22. 

I am wondering if there are other, similar boat owners, who have experience with lazy jacks out there? I would love to get/listen to/hear advice- errors to avoid, and general opinions in advance. 

Thank you!


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Here's a longish thread on the subject.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/sailnet-com-polls/51229-lazy-jacks-lovem-leaveem.html

IMO they are worthwhile to have if: you have lexan or other dodger windows that you want to prevent scratches/damage to, and if you can arrange a system or method such that they are unlikely to interfere with the hoist. We stow ours off the rig between douses, they are half line/half shock cord and the system works well for us.

Others terminate the upper ends some distance outboard on the spreaders to widen the distance between sides to make the hoist a little easier.

As you'll see in the thread linked above there are combination sail cover/lazyjack arrangements available.. on of the reason we stow ours off the rig is to enable a plain, simple sail cover to still be used - rather than the segmented zipper/velcro cover needed to cleanly go over/around lazyjacks permanently fixed to the boom.

There are other commercial systems that contrive to stow the jacks out of the way as well.


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## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

My boat came rigged from the factory with lazy jacks. They get stowed by loosening them and pulling them around a couple of hooks on the mast near the boom attachment, so they lay alongside the boom and the mast, and the regular sail cover works just fine. They don't work as well as I would like because there are only two lines on either side, and the sail falls out between them easily. I have the mast down and intend to redo them using lighter weight line and a third leg. Instead of the pulleys on the end of the lines that go up to the mast I am going to try just nylon thimbles spliced into the ends of the lines. I think they'll slide easily enough to pull the lines up. You don't actually deploy them under load. I think low stretch line is a good idea so they don't bulge too much when the sail drops.

Gary H. Lucas


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

i am also interest in adding the required parts to my mast while it is down, so i can also add lazyjack system at some point. i have been reading different posts and different opinions for sure. Can anyone post pics of how you have them set up? thanks. i hope this does not hyjack op idea of thread


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## JohnChristopherBalch (Jan 7, 2012)

*No conflict!*

I'd love to see some pix/more links of systems.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

I have them and I don't really like them. I would not install them on a boat if you plant to sail solo - they make it too difficult to hoist the main, interfering with the battens, and offer very little in the way of benefits.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

We have e-z-jax with three legs. To help solve the problem of batten interference when raising the sail, shock-cord with carabiners clipped to the top e-z-jax ring and the shroud on each side has been quite effective. The only problem is that down-wind in light air, the shock cord tends to hold back the boom.

Lazy Jack System - EZ-JAX


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## celenoglu (Dec 13, 2008)

Lazy jacks are not that lazy. ıf you want to raise the sail, you should collect them to the mast and raise the sail. They are only good for lowerng the main.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

*EZ Jax System*

Several manufactures exist that make a lazy jack type system, many make them up themselves, no matter which you choose, be sure they can be retracted and pulled to the mast so they don't interfere with raising the main. I went with EZ Jack; Lazy Jack System - EZ-JAX


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

We had an EZ-Jax system on our (former) Cal 2-29 for several years and found it a very good and very inexpensive system. See Lazy Jack System - EZ-JAX


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## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

I have crewed on a boat with he EZJax system for about 20 years. Well thought out, and it works well in practice.
I like the way the lines can be easily stored along side the mast.

L


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Whiskeyjack has lazyjacks installed. It is a permanently hung system, not designed to be strung to the mast once the sail is up (and, really, if you have your lines led aft, and you're winching your main up from the cockpit, having to go forward to reef the lazyjacks kinda defeats the purpose of leading your lines aft.) However, the feet of jacks are strung with few extra feet longer than the static dimensions, led to cleats on both sides of the aft end of the boom, where the jacks terminate. Once the sail is raised, it is a simple matter to slack off the jacks allowing the sail to fill fully, without chafe.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

celenoglu said:


> Lazy jacks are not that lazy. ....They are only good for lowering the main.


Agreed... for us it's an 'extra chore' in preparation for dousing the main. At all other times they are held off the mast, bungeed to the cabintop handrail. However they do protect our Lexan dodger windows from the rather bad scoring and scratching that happens if the main falls down onto them.

deployed:










Here you can see the lower sections gathered and hooked to another shock cord on the handrail (just inside the lower shrouds)


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

They came with our boat and I hated them. I took them off by the end of the first year that we had the boat. Too many lines flopping all over the place and you still should furl the sail properly anyway. It also seems counter productive to have to go back up to the mast to move the lines forward or to release them. All to keep the sail off the deck when it's lowered? To me, it's not nearly worth the cost or effort. We've taken strides to simplify the boat.. a lot of stuff has been removed.

Just my contrarian $0.02.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

*There is a cockpit control option*

Good point Sabreman...theyre not for everyone.

BTW, there is a cockpit control option with EZ Jax

How does the cockpit control option work?

•The cockpit control option includes control lines long enough to extend to cockpit and a pair of retracting lines that when pulled will retract the system along the boom. We can also provide instructions for modifying your existing keeper kit to allow and automatic release when the free end is tugged from cockpit. http://www.ezjax.com/pdfs/special_instructions_for_cockpit_deployment.pdf

We installed the mast blocks about 6" from the mast on the spreaders to reduce/eliminate the noise of them slapping against the mast. No sail cover modifications are needed either.

This pic shows them stored against the boom. (we do not have the cockpit deploy option, the main halyard is still at the mast)









Deployed:


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## nickmerc (Nov 2, 2008)

I love mine especially for single handing. I made my own and they are very simple. It took my a day to fabricate and install them. If I had help it would have gone alot faster. They are stowabale. I want to add cockpit deployment/retraction to the system, but have other things more pressing to worry about.

The big advantage for me is I can get the sail down quickly when solo and keep it under control. They allow me to tend to other things before having to flake the main sail.

They are so simple and inexpensive that you can just remove them if you do not like them and you won't be out that much money or time.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

Another benefit of lazy jacks that I don't think has been mentioned is controlling the excess mainsail when reefed without needing to trice-up the sail from the reefing points.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

> I would not install them on a boat if you plant to sail solo -


I am thinking about adding a lazy jack system. I thought that was a reason to have them. Would help drop sail quickly when alone. If I am going to perfect my no-handed, motorless pin landing, I will need all the help I can get.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

jameswilson29 said:


> I would not install them on a boat if you plant to sail solo - they make it too difficult to hoist the main, interfering with the battens, and offer very little in the way of benefits.


can you please elaborate on your statement?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I saw T37Chefs boat through binoculars one day when he was lowering his main with the E-Z-Jacks and said.......I gotta git one of then

We have the EZ jack system...easy..great when single handing, dont go back up to the mast to pull them back till we are either at the dock or at anchor.

Dave


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

My complaint is the need to motor directly into the wind to raise the main, or my battens get stuck under the lazy jack lines. The mainsail is small enough on the P28 that I could easily dump the main without it falling overboard or getting in the way without the lazy jack system.

After reading this thread, I looked more closely at this system and noticed that I can fully ease the lazy jack lines to allow more play. I will try this in the Spring and see if it makes usage easier.


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## JohnChristopherBalch (Jan 7, 2012)

My original reason for considering Lazy Jacks goes back to a trip I took in Maine. It was late in the day and the winds had kicked up to somewhere around 25kts. I was singlehanding, ducked behind an island to drop sail, and as I emerged from behind the island under power, my sail blew all over the cockpit.

I got it back under control just as I entered a dense lobster-pot field, where I had to maneuver very carefully to avoid fouling my outboard on a pot warp. 

I was almost clear of the field when an errant gust of wind picked up the sail and tossed it over my head, completely obstructing my vision. 

I scrambled and clawed my way free, dodged a last couple of pots, then turned my eyes skyward and asked; "REALLY?"

I swear I heard heavenly laughter.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

JohnChristopherBalch said:


> My original reason for considering Lazy Jacks goes back to a trip I took in Maine. ......


Perhaps what you need as much as (or more) than actual lazy jacks themselves is a quick and efficient way to secure the sail once it's down.

We used to have a shock cord assembly that stretched tack to clew on the boom and had sections attached across the main cord with hooks to act as sail ties.. always in place and ready to use.

A variation is Sailrite's Sail jockey.. two stretched runs of shock cord running the length of the boom, joined here and there with hooks in between, the advantage is you don't have the hanging ends of the 'centipede' style.

Some decent images here: They could easily be made DIY

sail ties


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Thane is a gaff ketch and has double topping lifts with lazy jacks on both booms.Round up quick.Sails drop as good as furled into the jacks as the halyards slide thru my hands.Then take in the slack sheets as I fall away. If it's blowing over 30 I get a gasket over the gaff pronto. I do this twice a day at the harbour entrance and is less effort than I see on the other boats.Lazy jacks have my vote! for easy safe single handing.


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## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

I just made one up, just 3 lines, adjustable, and just using knots. Worked brilliantly saving a lot of hassle. Not as pretty as some but thats ok.
Also made up two lines of shock cord with those plastic balls on 1 fitting into knotted loops using the surgeons knot v alpine. Simple and quick.


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

If you're making your own two thoughts.\:
Mount the upper part on the spreaders a little way out from the mast. Maybe six inches or so.. might want to experiment, helps ease the sail going up and down.
when splicing and eye for them to run thru use a sailmaker's thimble. That's a circiular one rather than the teardrop shaped ones. Less chance of a sharp edge damaging the sail.


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## Boise137 (Nov 19, 2011)

So is it normal for your sail to rest against the lazy jack lines? To me this looks inefficient. I'm new to the sailing world and this doesn't look right to me. Do I need to loosen the lines up?


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Mine holds up lazy bags, a huge improvement. I used the pvc saturated 3 oz dacron, called "Samson" for my lazy bags. A local sailmaker said it holds up to UV far better than Sunbrella, and is far cheaper. Crossing the Pacific, it became my water catchment . With the area of the mainsail, it gave me more water than I could possibly use. Any time I drop my main, it is covered, which is why they are so popular with charter boats.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

We went with a Mack Pack (lazy jacks with integrated sail cover) from Mack Sails and are very happy with it. Yes occasionally a batten will get caught but really is that much of a big deal? You just lower the halyard a few inches and try again. To me its more than an even trade off for the ability to drop the main in a hurry and have it remain on the boom clear of the deck if I need it down now. The task of flaking the main tying it down and covering it used to take both the wife and I working together 10 minutes or so. Now I can douse the main, dress it out in the bag and stow it by myself in less than 1/2 the time. 

I really recommend the Mack Pack solution.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

I regularly sail a variety of boats during the summer, some with lazy jacks, some without, and I have to say my next personal boat will have lazy jacks . Combined with a full batten main, they make dropping the main with a crowd on board, or by yourself, a complete non-event. I like the idea of the EZJACK as a solution to the occasional hitches raising the main, but will want to install it with a small diameter white line that, maybe even filament, that twill be unobtrusive.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Boise137 said:


> So is it normal for your sail to rest against the lazy jack lines? To me this looks inefficient. I'm new to the sailing world and this doesn't look right to me. Do I need to loosen the lines up?


Yes, the lazy jacks are too tight. They may touch the sail at times, but should never change the shape in any way. Lengthen them if need be.

You might also change the way they are rigged so you can disconnect them at the boom and move them up to the mast while sailing. I don't think this is necessary, but that's JMHO.


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## Boise137 (Nov 19, 2011)

In all honesty I'd like to dump them.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

jameswilson29 said:


> I have them and I don't really like them. I would not install them on a boat if you plant to sail solo - they make it too difficult to hoist the main, interfering with the battens, and offer very little in the way of benefits.


I find they make it easier to sail solo. But then we have a Doyle stack pack, so after a solo sail I just lower the sail and zip the stack pack closed. When raising the main, I sometimes loosen the LJs and pull them up toward the mast.

Regards,
Brad


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Boise137 said:


> So is it normal for your sail to rest against the lazy jack lines? To me this looks inefficient. I'm new to the sailing world and this doesn't look right to me. Do I need to loosen the lines up?


Your lines look a little too tight for that sail as set, but it looks a bit too baggy, even for the light air you appear to be working in. That's a lot of wrinkles.

Another thing to consider might be to make one section of the lazy jacks out of shock cord.. they'll have a bit of give then.


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## Stu Jackson (Jul 28, 2001)

This may have been in the link offered in an earlier reply:

Lazy Jacks Trick

Many folks complain about full battens getting caught up when raising the mainsail. They then spend a lot of time moving BOTH sides of the lazy jacks to the mast.

We developed an easier way with our lazy jacks.

We have a small cleat on the forward starboard side of the boom. When we put the halyard on the headboard, we move ONLY the starboard side of the lazy jacks forward and snug them under the forward side of the horn of this cleat.

Then, when we raise the mainsail, instead of going exactly head to wind, we bear off a tad to starboard so the wind is coming from the port side of the bow.

We then raise the mainsail and it doesn't get hooked on the lazy jacks even though the port side jacks are still there.

Been working for 13 years.

Yes, we have to go forward again to unhook the starboard lazy jack for dousing the sail, but there's never any hurry.

So, for those of you with lazy jacks, consider doing only one side.

Your boat, your choice.


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## Fiasco1 (Dec 4, 2010)

Not so sure on a 22 foot boat you need them, Over 30 sure i can understand that. Keep it simple and fun couple of elastic sail ties and your done even in a breeze.


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## montenido (May 14, 2008)

Check out "Jiffy Jax". I installed them on my C30, which I single-handed all the time. Easy to install, and they came with the ability to be pulled out of the way for raising the sail or installing the sailcover. They were the best thing that I added to my boat.
On my current boat, a C36, I have the "Dutchman" system, which came with the boat. I know some people really love it, but I will probably go back to lazy jacks with an integral sail cover.

BTW, I have no financial interest in Jiffy Jax, just love the product.

Cheers, Bill


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Look at the EZ Jacks also. We installed them this year and can actually deploy them from the cockpit if we needed to. When heading out the pull to the mast very easily and are never in the way of our full battens. No chafing the sail either.



Dave


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

I recently converted my fixed lazy jacks to adjustable and retractable. Perhaps this post will be of use to someone.

Sail Delmarva: Adjustable Lazy Jacks--Done the Lazy Way

Mine were non-adjustable for years, and to be quite honestly, they worked well enough. Above I have reported what I saw to be the pluses and minuses.


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## Boise137 (Nov 19, 2011)

Faster said:


> Your lines look a little too tight for that sail as set, but it looks a bit too baggy, even for the light air you appear to be working in. That's a lot of wrinkles.
> 
> Another thing to consider might be to make one section of the lazy jacks out of shock cord.. they'll have a bit of give then.


So how do I loosen those lines up? The lazy jacks are the only thing holding the boom up. I have tried adjusting them where the cleat is in the middle of the boom, but then the boom seems to sag quite a bit. Again I'm new to sailing and am still figuring things out.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Boise137 said:


> So how do I loosen those lines up? The lazy jacks are the only thing holding the boom up. I have tried adjusting them where the cleat is in the middle of the boom, but then the boom seems to sag quite a bit. Again I'm new to sailing and am still figuring things out.


The sail itself should 'hold the boom up'.. when the sail is fully hoisted the lazy jacks ought to slacken off, if they don't then you ease that central line to create slack. If they are tight while you're sailing they will interfere with your mainsheet setting. Keep an eye on that, if you sheet the main in harder (say to go upwind) your may find your jacks tightening up again.. they'll need to be eased then too.

So, based on your picture, your halyard is too soft, ie the main is not fully hoisted. Depending on the boat's/sail size you may need a winch to get that done. Head to wind, you should have a vertical wrinkle in the sail parallel to and along the mast once it's all the way up (rough guide). In heavier breeze this should be tighter, in lighter, looser, but that variation is most often dealt with by a cunningham adjustment which you don't have.. You may have a black band around the mast 6 inches to a foot below the top.. if you do that's where the top of the sail is meant to end up.

The other adjustment that looks too loose is your 'outhaul'.. it's the line that stretches the foot of the sail along the boom. All those wrinkles there shoud be taken out. Again, tighter for heavier air and looser for light, but not as loose as it looks now. There will be an adjustment for that, it may be internal to the boom and exit somewhere forward on the boom or at the gooseneck (or may be run aft to the cockpit) btw.. what boat is it? Offset companionway, I see, but I don't recognize it in that pic - 30 ish feet??

Finally your reef clew lines may need adjustment once the sail is properly set, they should be slack enough not to interfere with the leech curve of the sail.

Also, you do have a vang and that's good.. when the wind pipes up the sail will tend to lift the boom further, esp with the sheet eased.. the vang will let you bring it back down and retension the leech as appropriate..

If some of these terms are confusing you, get yourself a beginner's book and try to learn some of the terminology - it's part of this game and will allow you to properly digest whatever help you get from members here..

Good luck!


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## rugosa (Aug 30, 2011)

There should be a topping lift (1/16" or 3/32" 1 x 7 stainless steel wire fastened at masthead with tackle at bottom connecting to outboard end of boom) allowing you to support boom while not in use. Alternative would be a boom crutch supporting boom above cockpit sole. Third choice a solid vang but likely overkill for a 22.


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## Boise137 (Nov 19, 2011)

Faster said:


> The sail itself should 'hold the boom up'.. when the sail is fully hoisted the lazy jacks ought to slacken off, if they don't then you ease that central line to create slack. If they are tight while you're sailing they will interfere with your mainsheet setting. Keep an eye on that, if you sheet the main in harder (say to go upwind) your may find your jacks tightening up again.. they'll need to be eased then too.
> 
> So, based on your picture, your halyard is too soft, ie the main is not fully hoisted. Depending on the boat's/sail size you may need a winch to get that done. Head to wind, you should have a vertical wrinkle in the sail parallel to and along the mast once it's all the way up (rough guide). In heavier breeze this should be tighter, in lighter, looser, but that variation is most often dealt with by a cunningham adjustment which you don't have.. You may have a black band around the mast 6 inches to a foot below the top.. if you do that's where the top of the sail is meant to end up.
> 
> ...


Great thanks for you help! It answers a lot of questions that I have. My boat is a 35 Yorktown full keel. It's a heavy boat but handles the water great.....it feels like its on rails when docking it. Really easy.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

I've found zero need for the top block. It can chafe the sail on a long passage.


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