# Really, $1000.00 for foulies?



## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

And just the jacket at that! Please, educate me. What does a $1000.00 jacket do that my $65.00 jacket (purchased in 1978) doesn't, other than look A LOT cooler? My jacket Guy Cotten is still perfect except for the sleeve elastic; not one tear or water leak (never replaced the velcro or zipper).
I'm just astounded at the thought of spending that kind of money on foulies.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I bought a very expensive set of Henri Lloyd fouiies (not the most expensive they were over $2000) on sail and the damn things did not last. Had to replace them in South Africa and certainly did not spend much in spite of the high prices in SA. Interesting sidelight, my pension plan has purchased Helle Hansen and each year we get a code for buying at 40% off. Have ordered a set of waterproof tops and bottom, more for hiking than sailing. Will have to see how they do.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

for me, it keeps me warm and dry because I don't have your 1978 jacket. but you spent $65 dollars on just a jacket in 1978?, how could someone spend that much on a jacket in 1978 and why? that would be like a $1000 dollars in 2014


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

I spent 35 USD in Australia in 88 for a good drover also known as oil skins in the old days still keeps me bone dry just a little mink oil on the seams when they start to leak here's a similar one to mine Outback Trading Company Long Unlined Drover : Cabela's


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

overbored said:


> for me, it keeps me warm and dry because I don't have your 1978 jacket. but you spent $65 dollars on just a jacket in 1978?, how could someone spend that much on a jacket in 1978 and why? that would be like a $1000 dollars in 2014


Actually, if you'd bothered to use an inflation calculator instead of your imagination, $65.00 in 1978 is $236.36 in today's money, a reasonable (ball park) amount to spend IMO.
But hey, thanks for your opinion.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

I got my HH Offshore pants for 1/3 of retail. The regular price was about $750. 

I have sailed in all months in PNW staying warm. On my two past deliveries of a Vic-Maui boat back to the PNW, I wore my pants anytime I was on deck. They kept me dry without being warm and they kept me warm while breathing. The best investment I have made in sailing clothing.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I confess I've only ever bought foulies on sale and will continue to do so. 

Of course if we intend sailing offshore (or even just coastal) in inclement conditions we need the right stuff but for me finding good lightweight breathable gear for warm wet weather has been the hardest ask.


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## StormBay (Sep 30, 2010)

I bought in to the hype 6 years back and bought a Musto MPX jacket. Mostly I liked the collar design, and if something is truly quality I don't mind spending a little extra up front. My Musto jacket unfortunately is not what I would consider quality though. The construction is poor, with stitching that is crooked and wavy, and the cool collar that was the selling point for me is impractical in real life. On top of that, they no longer stay dry. If I had to do it over again I would have spent my money elsewhere, most likely on something marketed to commercial fisherman rather than yachties. You live and you learn..


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## misfits (Dec 9, 2011)

overbored said:


> how could someone spend that much on a jacket in 1978 and why?


Because it was leather 
Sorry couldn't help myself...


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

tdw said:


> I confess I've only ever bought foulies on sale and will continue to do so.
> 
> Of course if we intend sailing offshore (or even just coastal) in inclement conditions we need the right stuff but for me finding good lightweight breathable gear for warm wet weather has been the hardest ask.


"good lightweight breathable gear for warm wet weather" is what got me to this post. I was seeking the same thing when I came across the astronomically priced foulies. I'm one for quality equipment, especially for professional use, but this seems totally out of hand. And apparently no one can tell me what the $1000.00 jacket does better than my $236.00 (in today's money) jacket, not even last nearly as long!


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

The NIKE gore-tex jacket/tights set in this 2014 picture which was in fact made in the USA and cost 400 something well over 20 years ago

Having just hiked 70K in the poring rain on a 37 degree windy day i by another set 

For a NON-MARINE compare price out SIMMS fishing as it easy to go 500 for a jacket


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

StormBay said:


> I bought in to the hype 6 years back and bought a Musto MPX jacket. Mostly I liked the collar design, and if something is truly quality I don't mind spending a little extra up front. My Musto jacket unfortunately is not what I would consider quality though. The construction is poor, with stitching that is crooked and wavy, and the cool collar that was the selling point for me is impractical in real life. On top of that, they no longer stay dry. If I had to do it over again I would have spent my money elsewhere, most likely on something marketed to commercial fisherman rather than yachties. You live and you learn..


Not really what I want to hear, as I have a set on the way to me now. But of course I did not pay anything I got it from a Cruising World give away, I suppose I owe it to them to get a subscription don't I.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

capta said:


> And just the jacket at that! Please, educate me. What does a $1000.00 jacket do that my $65.00 jacket (purchased in 1978) doesn't, other than look A LOT cooler? My jacket Guy Cotten is still perfect except for the sleeve elastic; not one tear or water leak (never replaced the velcro or zipper).
> I'm just astounded at the thought of spending that kind of money on foulies.


It looks better with your $200 sunglasses. Afterall it a tiny pair of sunglasses can be worth $200 a $1000 jacket sounds pretty cheap!


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

StormBay said:


> I bought in to the hype 6 years back and bought a Musto MPX jacket. Mostly I liked the collar design, and if something is truly quality I don't mind spending a little extra up front. My Musto jacket unfortunately is not what I would consider quality though. The construction is poor, with stitching that is crooked and wavy, and the cool collar that was the selling point for me is impractical in real life. On top of that, they no longer stay dry. If I had to do it over again I would have spent my money elsewhere, most likely on something marketed to commercial fisherman rather than yachties. You live and you learn..


I'm a bit surprised to hear that... Pretty much all of my gear is from Musto, and I've always considered it to be money well spent... Although, I've never bought anything that was not on sale, got a fantastic deal years ago on some HPX that West Marine was discontinuing... And, scored a drysuit on eBay a couple of years ago for $550, that's roughly $1K below retail...

)

If you feel your stuff has lost its water repellant quality, have you tried treating it with ReviveX? Follow the directions carefully, but it should help...

Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: McNett ReviveX Wash-in Water Repellent, 12oz


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

I've had MUSTO MPX stuff for years and have been impressed with its durability. My first jacket must have been 10 years, or close to it, old before it lost its water repellence. Just on the tops of the shoulders, it was weird.

I didn't have any luck getting anything to bring back the water-repellence, so I replaced the jacket. I like my new jacket even better 

I also find that I can find very, very good deals on MUSTO on eBay.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

capta said:


> "good lightweight breathable gear for warm wet weather" is what got me to this post. I was seeking the same thing when I came across the astronomically priced foulies. I'm one for quality equipment, especially for professional use, but this seems totally out of hand. And apparently no one can tell me what the $1000.00 jacket does better than my $236.00 (in today's money) jacket, not even last nearly as long!


Its amusing that last years model (insert brand of your choice) was according to the adverts back then, the perfect foul weather gear. Strangely enough that no longer applies and only 2014 model is appropriate.

Nonetheless, to directly answer your question ..... what does the $1000 jacket do ? Puts Christmas cheer in the boardroom for one.  Oh yes and someone has to pay for all those jackets seemingly handed out with gay abandon to the crews of Wild Oats and the like.


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## StormBay (Sep 30, 2010)

JonEisberg said:


> I'm a bit surprised to hear that... Pretty much all of my gear is from Musto, and I've always considered it to be money well spent... Although, I've never bought anything that was not on sale, got a fantastic deal years ago on some HPX that West Marine was discontinuing... And, scored a drysuit on eBay a couple of years ago for $550, that's roughly $1K below retail...
> 
> )
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip, i'll give the ReviveX a try.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

misfits said:


> Because it was leather
> Sorry couldn't help myself...


Or made of panda skin :laugher


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Have to say, one of the better rain coats if you will, is a WM branded coat I bought a couple of years ago. Better than the Spider, Marker, Hard Core and a few other long since gone brands of ski coats I have had.........I paid less than $100 for it! Use Tec-Wax on my breathable coats once every fall before ski season, most hang on pretty good thru the season of wet here in the NW, along with skiing in the perverbial "Cascade WET/BIG Flake" weather we have around here!

marty


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

Foul weather gear is a bit strange for me. On one hand, being mostly a day sail and fair weather sailor I don't need it very often. On the other hand, when you do need it, it makes a huge difference in your comfort.

A number of years ago I bought my first set of foulies. West Marine was having a big sale on their stuff, so I bought a decent jacket and matching bib type pants. I wore them every so often and they were OK. 

This year I did the Around Long Island Regatta and we had close to 12 hours of rain. The pants worked well but the jacket leaked. By the end of the race I was cold, wet, and unhappy. I decided to upgrade my jacket and bought a nice Henri Lloyd jacket on sale for about $150. In the fall I did the Whitebread race on the east end. The race started in the rain, it rained all race, and rained even harder after the race, when we had to move the boat back to a marina over an hour away. I wore the rain gear for close to 8 hours. At the end of the race I was still warm and dry.

So, I don't know what a $1000 jacket will do, but I do know that having good gear is important enough to me that I will spend enough money to have good gear.

Barry


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## harmonic (Sep 10, 2013)

I bought a heavy duty waterproof jacket from a store which supplys fishing boats with there wet weather gear my jacket with heavy duty welded seams cost about 100 bucks,Keeps me 100 percent dry will buy the pants next.Keep out of fancy yachting shops they are only there to get rich off us.


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

I got my jacket on sale at west, 6 years ago.
I did just have to re-do the waterproofing....
My dream is to buy the matching pants 
$80 each.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I just saw $400 sunglasses in a sailing mag, that $1000 jacket is looking like a better and better value buy all the time.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

harmonic said:


> I bought a heavy duty waterproof jacket from a store which supplys fishing boats with there wet weather gear my jacket with heavy duty welded seams cost about 100 bucks,Keeps me 100 percent dry will buy the pants next.Keep out of fancy yachting shops they are only there to get rich off us.


bingo...here in the states we are spoiled too many options, however use what those guys use(fishermen) and youre golden same goes foor boots

:laugher

ps. I use some middle of the line westmarine coastal foulies that I got on sale for like $250 and they work fine for me even in the cold...the key as usual is layering under that...forget what model they are

I also used them for riding motorcycles down in el salvador for the torrential rains we have during the rainy season


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Having bought three sets of admittedly cheap foul weather none of which kept me warm and dry I bought a set of Henri Lloyd Ocean Racers. This was in 1987 and they cost a little over £700 which was a lot of money in those days. Even more than my M/C leathers. 

They have kept me warm and dry since then. At £26 a year I regard that as one of my better buys.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

tqa this is just my being cynical I bet the stuff was better made back then...as in labor wise, CRAFTMANSHIP

material wise stuff today is technologically better, but craftmanship no way I have a feeling your henri lloyd stuff has lasted simply because it was MADE better

for example my dad inhereted me his old whool sweater from spain that fishermen used back then(he used it to sail offshore)

it was naturally waterproof

however it stank was greasy(naturally) and weighed about 20lbs dry! I have pics of him in the 70s using a beanie, wool sweater and yellow foulie bottoms

racing swans and such in the med and atlantic...

jajja


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

tdw said:


> Its amusing that last years model (insert brand of your choice) was according to the adverts back then, the perfect foul weather gear. Strangely enough that no longer applies and only 2014 model is appropriate.
> 
> Nonetheless, to directly answer your question ..... what does the $1000 jacket do ? Puts Christmas cheer in the boardroom for one.  Oh yes and someone has to pay for all those jackets seemingly handed out with gay abandon to the crews of Wild Oats and the like.


Well you see last years jacket was designed to survive the El Nino, but see this year we are experiencing a Polar Vortex, so you can see it is obvious that your old stuff while optimized to the old system, is completely obsolete. See get your checkbook out! Oh and you should be glad to pay.


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## SVTatia (May 7, 2007)

capta said:


> And just the jacket at that! Please, educate me. What does a $1000.00 jacket do that my $65.00 jacket (purchased in 1978) doesn't, other than look A LOT cooler? ....





killarney_sailor said:


> ... Interesting sidelight, my pension plan has purchased Helle Hansen and each year we get a code for buying at 40% off....


Consumers need to fund pension plans and discounts so that other people can go cruising...


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

miatapaul said:


> Well you see last years jacket was designed to survive the El Nino, but see this year we are experiencing a Polar Vortex, so you can see it is obvious that your old stuff while optimized to the old system, is completely obsolete. See get your checkbook out! Oh and you should be glad to pay.


Damn .... I hadn't thought about that ... how about if I bring the year before last's gear out of storage ?

Regarding the fisherman's gear .... Harmonic's post .... I've tried that but found it to be overly bulky and not as comfortable as the yachting stuff. That does hark back to my previous comment re inshore v coastal and off shore.


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

what about Gill Offshore Jackets? is their quality not good? seem reasonably priced at $325 or so.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

It really depends on what you need it for. If your crusing the Carribean and even a bad storm just leaves you wet and warm who cares. If you are sitting in a pilot house for hours and may need to quickly run to the bow for something, then it doesn't matter much. But when you are the bowman on an offshore race boat and planning on spending days taking green water in the face then I want the driest thing I can find. 

This is a picture of a very similar boat to what I used to race on. That guy in the front, that was where I sat, ate, hung out, read, whatever, for ocean racing (we were allowed to go below and sleep in shifts). Four or five days sitting there taking waves in the face and I very much appreciated that while my butt was numb it was also dry. 

Would cheap fishing gear work? Well I own some, and no it doesn't. It isn't bad when you can retire inside and dry off every now and then. But it's uncomfortable to wear, holds sweat, and won't keep you as dry.


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## svzephyr44 (Jun 26, 2000)

The coat is cheap compared to the "mate" in it!


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Stumble said:


> It really depends on what you need it for. If your crusing the Carribean and even a bad storm just leaves you wet and warm who cares. If you are sitting in a pilot house for hours and may need to quickly run to the bow for something, then it doesn't matter much. But when you are the bowman on an offshore race boat and planning on spending days taking green water in the face then I want the driest thing I can find.
> 
> This is a picture of a very similar boat to what I used to race on. That guy in the front, that was where I sat, ate, hung out, read, whatever, for ocean racing (we were allowed to go below and sleep in shifts). Four or five days sitting there taking waves in the face and I very much appreciated that while my butt was numb it was also dry.
> 
> Would cheap fishing gear work? Well I own some, and no it doesn't. It isn't bad when you can retire inside and dry off every now and then. But it's uncomfortable to wear, holds sweat, and won't keep you as dry.


I never understood why people cant differentiate between racing and normal putzing around when questions like these are asked

why is racing even considered here?

when one races for the most part there is a budget, a racing budget...$$$$ the more the better

better sails better equipment to get that extra .1 knot

the same applies to foulies, gloves, racing gear etc...

if you are racing you need the best, to feel comfortable, the best is needed..for sure

its obvious that pic is up there

why do poeple(sailors) always want to imitate the racers when 95 percent never do or need the same equpiment?

its just so weird to me...

in any case Id love some henri lloyd foulies maybe some older ones that LAST but when I go out cruising, especially in tropical routes and trades I only used a light jacket over my harness never once saying man I wish I had some $1000 foulies!

of course this all depends on where you sail and white type of sailing you do but it never ceazes to amaze me how into the buying game people get in regards to such simple things boat related

foulies in this case


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## WoobaGooba (Oct 16, 2012)

capta said:


> And just the jacket at that! Please, educate me. What does a $1000.00 jacket do that my $65.00 jacket (purchased in 1978) doesn't, other than look A LOT cooler? My jacket Guy Cotten is still perfect except for the sleeve elastic; not one tear or water leak (never replaced the velcro or zipper).
> I'm just astounded at the thought of spending that kind of money on foulies.


Remember what Fernando taught us ....

"Its better to look good than to feel good"


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Wet and cold is just no way to go though life


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

if its wet and cold out there!

jajaja


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

Stumble said:


> It really depends on what you need it for. If your crusing the Carribean and even a bad storm just leaves you wet and warm who cares. If you are sitting in a pilot house for hours and may need to quickly run to the bow for something, then it doesn't matter much. But when you are the bowman on an offshore race boat and planning on spending days taking green water in the face then I want the driest thing I can find.
> 
> This is a picture of a very similar boat to what I used to race on. That guy in the front, that was where I sat, ate, hung out, read, whatever, for ocean racing (we were allowed to go below and sleep in shifts). Four or five days sitting there taking waves in the face and I very much appreciated that while my butt was numb it was also dry.
> 
> Would cheap fishing gear work? Well I own some, and no it doesn't. It isn't bad when you can retire inside and dry off every now and then. But it's uncomfortable to wear, holds sweat, and won't keep you as dry.


I actually appreciate this comparison and have made similar comparisons in other things I do in life, when folks ask if they need all the gear I have for one activity or another.

In this case I can say without reservation...........that guy in the front there, yeah that aint me. LOL That type of sailing doesn't hold much allure for me. I mean if you could be the guy at the helm it might be fun. Just hanging around as "rail meat" and getting beat to death, just isn't my idea of a good time. I enjoy watching now and than when I can though.

more a recreational thing for me at this time. Still hoping at some point to get much more serious about sailing and spending a lot more time on boats.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

i have cruised 5 years now and never had foulies of more than thrift store quality. in gom i had a london fog jacket i found for under 5 usd, and it was a lil fail in the hardest rains, but, when walls of water are pouring down on you in amost incredibly fresh breeze(over 40 kts), all will fail. ....
here is a lot more pleasant in rainy times, as one is not out sailing. we have no heavy weather in high season, when it is perfect for tourists to arrive and thrive. no rain,no humidity, no bad weather. awesome. at night use a set of fleece wear and all is good. 
foulies?? 5 bucks at sally ann's awesome huge international boutique, err, thrift store... or at goodies.. they rock also.
the fishermen's oilskins are the best anti wetness wear i have found. 
down here, keep water out of the cockpit and you are fine. ..... 
or soap up and enjoy the rinse.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

nothing like mid ocean joy(the soap) showers

again depends where and what you sail


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

avenger79 said:


> I actually appreciate this comparison and have made similar comparisons in other things I do in life, when folks ask if they need all the gear I have for one activity or another.
> 
> In this case I can say without reservation...........that guy in the front there, yeah that aint me. LOL That type of sailing doesn't hold much allure for me. I mean if you could be the guy at the helm it might be fun. Just hanging around as "rail meat" and getting beat to death, just isn't my idea of a good time. I enjoy watching now and than when I can though.
> 
> more a recreational thing for me at this time. Still hoping at some point to get much more serious about sailing and spending a lot more time on boats.


You also get to do stuff like this...

But keep in mind most of these ocean racers are not designed to go upwind. The fun happens when you bear off the wind, the sails fill, and the boat starts to do what it was designed for... Massively fun fast reaching, with the wind screaming by, the creaks all stop, and all you hear is the sound of water rushing past the hull and the rigging humming. There is nothing more fun than blast reaching on a 70' turbo sled at 25kn.

It also gets pretty dry at that point since you outrun the spray. And the boat flattens out and lifts up on her lines. It really is a fun way to spend a few days.


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

Stumble said:


> You also get to do stuff like this...
> 
> But keep in mind most of these ocean racers are not designed to go upwind. The fun happens when you bear off the wind, the sails fill, and the boat starts to do what it was designed for... Massively fun fast reaching, with the wind screaming by, the creaks all stop, and all you hear is the sound of water rushing past the hull and the rigging humming. There is nothing more fun than blast reaching on a 70' turbo sled at 25kn.
> 
> It also gets pretty dry at that point since you outrun the spray. And the boat flattens out and lifts up on her lines. It really is a fun way to spend a few days.


very nice pic.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure I would enjoy that ride. Just not sure if I would want to do it all the time.

riding on a 70' boat in general would be fantastic, I'm sure.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Started sailing in a really affordable [read: cheap] set of foulies in the assumption that I didn't plan to be out in the rain much, haha.

Sat at a table with a friend for a late lunch after a really nasty downpour, watching the lake around us grow as we dripped dry, having thoroughly done our laundry, and I vowed to get real foulies. And luckily caught HL at the end of the season model clearance. "This year's style" wasn't on my priority list. On clearance, they're not out of line with any other specialty clothing. And back then, there were fewer companies making the same quality of garment.

Thousand dollars? That's for "I need it now!" when you really value a dry butt on a long trip offshore.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

capta said:


> I'm just astounded at the thought of spending that kind of money on foulies.


Hell, spending that kind of scratch sounds like a bargain, compared to what you might have to cough up for a new Top Flight Ride these days... )

SAIL Magazine has just announced their Best Boats of 2015... Congrats to the winners, of the 7 boats selected in all the various categories Over 30 Feet, I reckon their _AVERAGE PRICE_ comes in right around $1.1 million...

It's a Brave New World out there now, pal... Of course, with something like a Gunboat 55, why in the world would you ever need foul weather gear, anyway?

)










Raymarine Congratulates SAIL's 2015 Best Boats Winners! | Sail Magazine


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

hellosailor said:


> Thousand dollars? That's for "I need it now!" when you really value a dry butt on a long trip offshore.


But that's my point. My $65.00/ $236.00 jacket still keeps me perfectly dry. It wouldn't matter if I was working the foredeck, hugging a rail or steering in the cockpit; it does the job just fine. The question was, what does the $1000.00 jacket do that mine doesn't?


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## StormBay (Sep 30, 2010)

capta said:


> The question was, what does the $1000.00 jacket do that mine doesn't?


A more efficient job of lightening your wallet so your not bogged down by its crushing weight.


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## Waterrat (Sep 8, 2007)

Not sure who said it first. "No such thing as bad weather just bad gear."I totally agree. 

Most people don't need to spend a 1000 on foul weather gear unless one expects long exposure in horrible weather and feel you need the neatest, coolest, most trendy brand new full retail set of 1000 rain gear. Sure if you are racing rail meat or high latitude sailing or some other extreme it might be nice to have the best of the best gear. For the rest of us there is gear a little heavier, less pretty, less bells and whistles but more then adequate. For clothes it is all about the right layers depending on exposure and climate. 

I have been looking at the Helly Hansen Pants: Impertech II bib. $66 They look like they would be durable, effective and reasonably priced. Anyone have any experience with this type of fabric?


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

I bought my HL set on sale in 1988 for $500. Night and day over the WM stuff I had bee wearing although I imagine WM has come a long way since then.

How about sailing boots? There is a product you can spend some money on.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

As Billy Crystal once said, "it's better to look good than to feel good". Spend whatever it takes.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

Having a good set of foulies allows us to use our boat more.
Where we live we get 50-100" of rain a year. That's one to two inches a week on average. Some places get even more than that.
We decided to purchase Gill. They are breathable, fairly waterproof and stylish. Two full sets of foulies, on sale, were a little over $2,000. 
It has made the difference between using our boat or staying tied up.


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

JonEisberg said:


> Hell, spending that kind of scratch sounds like a bargain, compared to what you might have to cough up for a new Top Flight Ride these days... )
> 
> SAIL Magazine has just announced their Best Boats of 2015... Congrats to the winners, of the 7 boats selected in all the various categories Over 30 Feet, I reckon their _AVERAGE PRICE_ comes in right around $1.1 million...
> 
> ...


WHAT? How about a spoiler alert? LOL

Hadn't gotten to that article yet. Just opened it up this morning. I do love looking at the boats they write about. I doubt I'll ever have anything near that nice but sure fun to dream.


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

avenger79 said:


> what about Gill Offshore Jackets? is their quality not good? seem reasonably priced at $325 or so.


I just replaced a 10 year old set of Gill OS I think it was called with OS2 $475 for the set, I just walked in and asked for 20% off and they gave it too me. Odly enough I sail other peoples boats more than mine as I work in the industry but I'm on the water almost daily. I only really need my foulies about 5% of the time as compared to just something water proof but when you need them you need them. Mine were beat to crap and only just started to fail since my 2003 purchase. I don't have a lot of experience to compare against the 1k brand but I will happily stick with what I know. I guess the real question is why go out and drop a 100K on a boat and then be stuck at the dock because your too cheap to buy foulies.  go sailing!


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

barefootnavigator said:


> I just replaced a 10 year old set of Gill OS I think it was called with OS2 $475 for the set, I just walked in and asked for 20% off and they gave it too me. Odly enough I sail other peoples boats more than mine as I work in the industry but I'm on the water almost daily. I only really need my foulies about 5% of the time as compared to just something water proof but when you need them you need them. Mine were beat to crap and only just started to fail since my 2003 purchase. I don't have a lot of experience to compare against the 1k brand but I will happily stick with what I know. I guess the real question is why go out and drop a 100K on a boat and then be stuck at the dock because your too cheap to buy foulies.  go sailing!


Whoa, hold on a moment there big feller. Aren't you the guy who posted and advocates "Voyaging on $500 per month"? And now you are telling us you spent "$475 for the set"? Doesn't that sorta break the bank for this month?
Or have you been salting away $47.50 for the last 10 months in expectation of this expenditure? That must be pretty painful, cutting your already meager budget by almost 10%. You must be a genius at financial management.


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

capta said:


> Whoa, hold on a moment there big feller. Aren't you the guy who posted and advocates "Voyaging on $500 per month"? And now you are telling us you spent "$475 for the set"? Doesn't that sorta break the bank for this month?
> Or have you been salting away $47.50 for the last 10 months in expectation of this expenditure? That must be pretty painful, cutting your already meager budget by almost 10%. You must be a genius at financial management.


Nope that was then this is now, won the state lottery bought a 46 HR and am living off about 9k a month what can I say


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

capta said:


> Whoa, hold on a moment there big feller. Aren't you the guy who posted and advocates "Voyaging on $500 per month"? And now you are telling us you spent "$475 for the set"? Doesn't that sorta break the bank for this month?
> Or have you been salting away $47.50 for the last 10 months in expectation of this expenditure? That must be pretty painful, cutting your already meager budget by almost 10%. You must be a genius at financial management.


and for those that know how to budget, that means you cut back on expenses either before or after said purchase

the $25 left from the 500 can be used to stock up on booze or whatever for those more frugal than $500 a month, MONTHS that dont blow the "budget"

jajajaja:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher


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## Shockwave (Feb 4, 2014)

I think it depends on where you sail and what you do. If you're taking the dog for a walk on rainy summer day Wal-Mart has just the jacket for you. If it's 50 degrees, raining and you're standing watch for hours then good gear is a must. I've progressed through Line Seven and it's ilk to Gore-Tex gear. I like heavy well lined gear and currently use a set from Boat US, that was made by HL, private label. It's been very good for 10 years, my wife use Musto OS1's. We like the breathable gear and don't mind spending the money for it assuming it will last multiple years. YMMV


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Foulies?

Invest in a good hard top. You still need something to duck out on deck, but something very light will do.

About the only time I wear rain gear is in town and anchoring/docking.


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

pdqaltair said:


> Foulies?
> 
> Invest in a good hard top. You still need something to duck out on deck, but something very light will do.
> 
> About the only time I wear rain gear is in town and anchoring/docking.


Building my own this year from starboard.
Going to use hinged hard windows too, no more PVC for us in the front.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

christian.hess said:


> ...never once saying man I wish I had some $1000 foulies!


Perfect, I love it.
John


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Capta-
I've got some outerwear that's nothing near the $1000 price that still outperforms the HL's that I bought many years ago. In most cases.

If you're working up a sweat and it is hot and humid out, the Gore-Tex keeps your drier inside than the non-breathable stuff, regardless of price. But if it is a chilly day and I'm mainly trying to keep occasional spray from soaking me? Then I'd prefer the HL (which, back then, was probably $400 for the set on clearance, $750ish if not). Among other things, the collar on the HL jacket covers my cheeks and neck, really breaks the wind without inhibiting my vision. And the hood keeps rain from dripping in my eyes, without the need for a hat under it, or blocking the side vision. Then there are some little things, like the float liner that was built in, the integral (but removable) chest harness, and the tabs to lock in a full PFD. Oh, and the beavertail, which many folks never realize is there.

Would that justify the price difference? Maybe part of it. But paying full pop for foul weather gear is either called "I need it NOW" or "I can afford it." The stuff is still pricey even on clearance and the "technical outerwear" market has caught up with a lot of things, while the sailing market has dropped a few in order to increase profit and appeal to the masses, the same way that North Face dropped the climbing market to go after inner cities. Go figure.

If you're satisfied with what a $65 jacket does, that's all there is to it. If it has elastic wrists with an outer overwrap, so you can lift your arms up in a deluge and still not have water shooting down them? Great, it matches the high priced foulies. And if you don't need that, again, great.

I was looking at an underappreciated, fast, expensive car at a dealership while waiting for service on something way more mundane, and the thought struck me. Sure, I could afford the $100,000 car. After all, inside of the first month of driving it the way it was meant to be driven, I'd be in jail and wouldn't have to worry about the payments anyway. Right? (G)

So my mundane-mobile is a far better performer, for me. At a fraction of the price.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

I sail in the rain and cold a lot. I also hike and hunt in it. I can't see why the marine jackets are so expensive. I have gear I bought from hiking and hunting stores (Gore-Tex) on sale and it works great for me many years later.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

MedSailor said:


> I can't see why the marine jackets are so expensive.


Because they have the word marine in the name. That always triples the price


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

JimMcGee said:


> Because they have the word marine in the name. That always triples the price


Ya, it doesnt have anything to do with the price of high end sports wear regardless of what's on the label. Like high end hiking jackets that top out over $750. Or pretty much any other out door sports gear.

Small markets, highly technical gear, where durability is mandatory equals expensive regardless of the market.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

yeah except they are overpriced...anyone who argues that doesnt get it...this stuff has been around a looooooooooooooong time goretex is so what 1999? seriously stuff is new the year it comes out then it becomes mainstream

all sports suffer from this...ever buy the newest running shoes? or the newest mavic wheel sets for your new road tour de france bike that cost 10k?

after a year they cost 2k

issue I have with many marine gear is prices stay high unless you really shop around for deals or black friday type deals or bargain blowouts...sometimes you get there in time sometimes you dont

in any case I wouldnt consider the marine industry a small market as it encompasses FISHING, KAYAKING, BOATING IN GENERAL SAILING, SKIING ETC...

sailing is just a part of the whole business...so when you see sailing gear that is the exact same thing but made for fishing or kayaking or whatever without the "OFFSHORE TYPE 3" volvo ocean logo on it just get it.

now Im not arguing good foulies no foulies here Im arguing that you dont need to pay such an extravagant price on foulies to get good and damn good protection!

now as always this is dependant on where you sail

I wouldnt be as frugal or LENIENT if I was a delivery skipper in the north sea...right?

just like Im not a volvo ocean racer so I dont need whatever frank cammas is wearing right?

the answer is as always maybe...if you want to look and feel like him and have the $$ go for it

nobody is stopping you!

thats freedom.

those who are lucky to do so are blessed

peace, im out


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

JimMcGee said:


> Because they have the word marine in the name. That always triples the price


not always but most of the time...


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Christian,

Go look at top quality kayacking gear. It also runs well over a thousand dollars. Even once you exclude dry suits. 

It's just the price of poker. If you want to stay dry in adverse conditions you have to pay. Rarely does the word 'marine' by itself cost more. The slow turn over, specialized materials, specialized engineering, and small market are what you are paying for.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

I had goretex in the early 1980's and liked it but still didn't do as good as they say it does sorry just my own experience I have had all kinds of foul weather gear in my life from the top to the bottom and none have done as good as my oilskins in all the varied conditions I have been in from Arctic to tropics blizzards to typhoons and hurricanes and well under 300 bucks but that's just me others have what works best for them I prefer to stay out of the weather when I can hard dodgers are so great.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

I think Gore-tex is in its fourth generation. I bought my first set in 1978, a marine outfit, then in 1984 bought a cycling out fit with "the new gore-tex". My current jacket is about a 2004 North Face pack light with zip in polar fleece liner. I just reconditioned it with Nickwax rain repellent (a wash in process) but haven't been in the rain with it yet.
West Marine has their Third Reef jacket and bibs on Black Friday sale for $200 the set. Seems like a screaming good deal for fair weather bay sailors, no? What is your experience with 3rd reef gear?
John
ps. I've always said when it counts, don't use Velcro and when it's really wet and cold don't use gore-tex. Hope things have improved.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

capta said:


> The question was, what does the $1000.00 jacket do that mine doesn't?


Don't you sail in the Caribbean? nuff said...


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

90% or more of sailors never need anything more than light weight pants or a jacket with a hood that is semi water repellant. 

The only thing I think of that is $1k is either HL's offshore ocean pro jacket or Musto's HPX line. Both are so far above and beyond what average people need it's ridiculous. The VOR guys are using HPX stuff and the last edition ADOR was using HL's ocean pro gear. Both are for the most extreme conditions in ocean sailing. Why on earth would you spend that kind of money is beyond me if you're not racing, have roller reefing sails, only sail 5 months out of the year, or just sail in a bay or lake. This gear is not for you so stop complaining about the price.

You guys are comparing a Honda civic to a Ferrari. Two completely different markets. And to anyone claiming their $50 jacket has worked for them for the past 10 years, let's go ahead and add that you have a dodger, bimini, and sail in tropical locations. Of course you don't need $1k jacket, it's 75-90* all day everyday. Just be glad that you're not stuck on the rail or doing a headsail change in 40 kts for the next 20+ hours. 

Last weekend I was on the bow of a J120 doing a headsail change in 40 degree weather with cold water over the bow and my head. I never once thought to myself, "boy I could've saved so much on foul weather gear..."

On day 4-5 of Annapolis to Newport when it was blowing 30-35 in fog at 0300 I never thought to myself, "if I only had lighter weight foulies, I'd be more comfortable". 

When doing 23+ kts of boat speed in 30+ kts of wind right before we dropped the rig on the trimaran, I never thought "Should've just bought the lightweight version of this and saved some coin". 

Point being, buy what's appropriate for your type of sailing. No more, no less, and you'll be very happy.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

That's the problem I'm in Washington state the only place in the northern hemesphers with a rain forest that's why goretex ain't so good and my 35 dollar jacket is well over 20 years old and still keeps me warm and dry in the worst I get into t a dry cruiser so little solid water on deck


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Stumble said:


> Christian,
> 
> Go look at top quality kayacking gear. It also runs well over a thousand dollars. Even once you exclude dry suits.
> 
> It's just the price of poker. If you want to stay dry in adverse conditions you have to pay. Rarely does the word 'marine' by itself cost more. The slow turn over, specialized materials, specialized engineering, and small market are what you are paying for.


I KNOW STUMBLE Im not arguing prices as much as Im arguing USES.

and we do disagree on the marine, its not rarely its mostly...a nut and bolt labeled for marine use will fetch more than the same bolt at ace...some may argue quality but that has to do woth provinence not store or intended use.

beleive me I know what good feels like and what cheap and crappy feels like ive been both

when I started racing dinghies in high school and my dad didnt have the money to get me good gear I was the dufus out there in yellow 1970s foulies and a panache guatemalan jacket...when everybody else had the latest gill boots and suits and whatnot...yet my partner and I still made top 5s and 10s all the time in fjs.

what Im arguing is the need for a middle of the run cruiser in trade weather to want 1000 foulies

my previous posts have expressed this

cases like racing the southern ocean, or climbing everest nobody is saying that a wool jacket is going to cut it...at least in comfort. compared to whats available today.

Im not arguing that, Im not arguing the quality of GOOD manufacturers but seriously foulies at westmarine or similar ARE marked up, ARE not that good quality when compared to buying direct and only when they are heavily discounted are they considered at least to me and many cruisers I know "GOOD VALUE"

thats how I bought mine which I consider a great deal at $250 for tops and bottoms....they are a million times better than what I had when I started out cruising.

the bottom line is we are talkimg apples and oranges here

volvo ocean race no **** you want to survive and race and be efficient, IN COMFORT dry as a bone

is joe blow cruising around the world or coastal going to need a suit and goggles for 50 plus knot bow surf spray?

hell no

we should all undertsand that


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

newhaul said:


> That's the problem I'm in Washington state the only place in the northern hemesphers with a rain forest that's why goretex ain't so good and my 35 dollar jacket is well over 20 years old and still keeps me warm and dry in the worst I get into t a dry cruiser so little solid water on deck


even today this stands...the trick to being comfortable in adverse conditions is layers...

variety of layers...

one thing does not do all...anybody who thinks this in for a whooping....


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

christian.hess said:


> even today this stands...the trick to being comfortable in adverse conditions is layers...
> 
> variety of layers...
> 
> one thing does not do all...anybody who thinks this in for a whooping....


I agree with you my cold weather base is belly Hansen silk long handles from the old days rarely need them but when I do I'm glad I still have them then I use UA coldtec compression pullover then my oilskins


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

christian.hess said:


> even today this stands...the trick to being comfortable in adverse conditions is layers...
> 
> variety of layers...
> 
> one thing does not do all...anybody who thinks this in for a whooping....


My layers:


Polypropylene underwear

Quick dry hiking pants

Fleece

Foulies (HH pants / Gill jacket)

I usually wear a wind shirt

My special treat - Bubarry Ultimas.

 Gloves - rubber work gloves with HH liners ( I have 2 sets of liners)


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

thanks for that! 

I have to update my layers LIST if I do cold sailing around here in the states


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

christian.hess said:


> thanks for that!
> 
> I have to update my layers LIST if I do cold sailing around here in the states


The layers list isn't just for sailing you will have to relearn that it is an everyday thing here in the northern lattitudes compared to your last cave. :laugher


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

I just started using fleeces again after a 10 year hiatus! yikes! jajaja


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Fleece is good, but usually highly flammable unless it has been treated with flame retardants. Which get into the human body.

OTOH there's wool and silk and other good things, and just like fleece they stay warm when wet.


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## the_abuse (Jan 12, 2014)

Binical has Henri lloyd offshore jacket on sale for half off.

HENRI LLOYD FREEDOM GORE-TEX JACKET Binnacle.com

im trying to decide between the gill os1 and the henri lloyd freedom


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

the_abuse said:


> Binical has Henri lloyd offshore jacket on sale for half off.
> 
> HENRI LLOYD FREEDOM GORE-TEX JACKET Binnacle.com
> 
> im trying to decide between the gill os1 and the henri lloyd freedom


well see that "aint bad" make it a nice christmas present!

I would if I could at that price


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

hellosailor said:


> Fleece is good, but usually highly flammable unless it has been treated with flame retardants. Which get into the human body.
> 
> OTOH there's wool and silk and other good things, and just like fleece they stay warm when wet.


was talking for being outside...running errands and stuff...jajaja not sailing

read back a few pages I was mentioning my dads old spanish wool sailing sweater

I hear ya bud


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## the_abuse (Jan 12, 2014)

christian.hess said:


> well see that "aint bad" make it a nice christmas present!
> 
> I would if I could at that price


What do you mean that's Canadian dollars it will be less for you Americans and they have free shipping to the states so it's a super deal for americans


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

its a super deal for those in the states!

again if I had the $$ thats a case where I wouldnt mind splurging


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

The best for keeping warm when its wet is a good old fashioned us navy peacoat got two issued to me


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## the_abuse (Jan 12, 2014)

I actually decided on getting the Gill oc1


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## StormBay (Sep 30, 2010)

the_abuse said:


> Binical has Henri lloyd offshore jacket on sale for half off.
> 
> HENRI LLOYD FREEDOM GORE-TEX JACKET Binnacle.com


Yah but they are only available in either small or xxl...


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