# Anybody following the America's Cup Saga?



## merlin2375 (Jul 12, 2007)

I am a little bit confused as to what the issue is with the America's cup this year. So from what I understand:

1) Allinghi currently has the cup from their win in 2007, Allinghi is owned by the Société Nautique de Genève (SNG).

2) So, according to the rules of the cup someone must become the "challenger of record" in order to challenge Allinghi for the cup.

3) So, Club Náutico Español de Vela (CNEV) decides they want to be the challenger of record. So they apply and become the challenger of record.

4) But wait, BMW/Oracle (Golden Gate Yacht Club GGYC) wants to be the challenger of record. So they take SNG (owner's of Allinghi) to court in NYC for accepting CNEV has the challenger of record BECAUSE they allege that CNEV does not meet the criteria of being a legit yacht club (according to the Deed of Gift which governs the Cup).

5) BMW/Oracle (GGYC) wins and is now listed as the challenger of record.

Race is supposed to be in 2009 but the dates are being argued now? Does that mean there won't be anything in 2008? And they will be racing Cat's instead of Monos?

Here's a link to the complaint filed by GGYC if anyone wants to see it:
http://www.ggyc.org/Verified_Complaint.PDF


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

I would be happy if they just found some damn wind to sail in. The Americas Cup has turned into one of the most boring races in sailing. I think open ocean races are becoming more popular now. I hope GGYC gets their butts kicked for taking legal action.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Biased opinion of course, since I grew up with the races off Newport, RI - but, the America's Cup became boring when the Aussies took it from us in 1983.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I don't think it's quite right to say that the '87 series in Freemantle was boring... borderline conditions for the 12Ms of the day, that was probably the best spectator sailing scenes we've seen.

Unfortunately this whole AC thing is rapidly devolving into a bit of a joke. Billionaires and lawyers are the key players in what once was a true test of technology, design and sailing.

Sailing Anarchy is chronicling the sad saga as it goes, with, of course, their particular point of view which is not for everyone. But it does seem that the Alinghi crowd, led by Bertarelli, has managed to nearly tear apart this sailing icon.

But looking back historically, you may find that similar machinations (though not so public) may well have contributed to the US's 120-something year stranglehold on this same cup.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> Biased opinion of course, since I grew up with the races off Newport, RI - but, the America's Cup became boring when the Aussies took it from us in 1983.


Can't say his name, can you TB.

I missed '87, have to get a video somewhere.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Funny that it doesn't seem like 25 years ago - can vividly recall Alan Bond's beaming face while holding up his "golden spanner", which after 132 years in one spot, he planned to use in unbolting the cup from it's home.

Conner won it back 4 years later - sending it to the left coast, only to lose it again, this time to the Kiwis - both spanking the long-standing 12 meter rules. That was an end of the 12 meter legacy.


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## Robby Barlow (Apr 23, 2006)

bestfriend said:


> I would be happy if they just found some damn wind to sail in. The Americas Cup has turned into one of the most boring races in sailing.


Having been in Valencia last year I couldn't agree more!

The Cup should be about sailing - in whatever conditions, and not money.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

I think it started with that stupid catamaran! I also think it was always about money and thats what kept it in NY for so long. But with the change of the world economy and technologies available for a price, everything changed. It started slowly with the 12m and fiberglass and then just took off. Now its about money AND technology. Any resemblance to sailing history and pride of workmanship is gone. I am a dinosaur. If I had the energy, or the money, to take care of a wood boat, thats what I would have.


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## merlin2375 (Jul 12, 2007)

I know the AC is steeped in tradition of having only two competitors, the deed of gift, challenger or record, etc....but do you guys think it would be more interesting if they opened the field a bit more and had more boats in? Or is that what they do in the Louis Vutton (spelling?) Cup.

Was that ever considered in the past?


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

merlin2375 said:


> I know the AC is steeped in tradition of having only two competitors, the deed of gift, challenger or record, etc....but do you guys think it would be more interesting if they opened the field a bit more and had more boats in? Or is that what they do in the Louis Vutton (spelling?) Cup.
> 
> Was that ever considered in the past?


Yeah, the LVC is open to all that meet the IACC rules, correct me if I am wrong. Was it in the eighties that there was 13 in the LVC? Personally, I like the one on one of the AC.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

merlin2375 said:


> I know the AC is steeped in tradition of having only two competitors, the deed of gift, challenger or record, etc....but do you guys think it would be more interesting if they opened the field a bit more and had more boats in? Or is that what they do in the Louis Vutton (spelling?) Cup.
> 
> Was that ever considered in the past?


The Louis Vuitton Cup (and other challengers' trials) were always the elimination series to determine who got to challenge the holder of the cup. But it is primarily a round robin match race series too. There are fleet races among the cup boats in the early going.

Fleet racing is a very different beast than match racing and since the cup has become a match race series it would be kind of tough to change that format.

Considering that the major obstacles to participation are the costs involved I'm not sure, without a major shift in philosophy, that fleet race championship would really create more entries.


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## merlin2375 (Jul 12, 2007)

/\/\ that was one of the thing that kind of confused me. If the Louis Vuitton cup typically determines who is the challenger, how did this whole AC mess start? 

Was CNEV in the Louis Cup? Did they win?


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

I am not sure of the specifics, but I think its basically bragging rights. The Cup Race isn't run until someone challenges the Cup holder. Then the schedule is set for the elimination series and then the Cup race itself. Sometimes , the challenger ends up not being in the America's Cup race at all.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

The cup has always been about rich guys and money. Going to court in an effort to win the cup is nothing new. The NYYC was able to keep the cup for so many years because of venue selection and rule alterations. What is going on now is nothing new, just the newest version.


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## tigerregis (Nov 24, 2006)

Louis Vuitton has walked. Too embarrassing to be associated with the nonsense.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Good for them. I for one think the challenge needs to come from the East Coast, maybe the NYYC again. The West just doesn't have what it takes in dedication to sailing. Face it, the tradition is just not big enough here.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

bestfriend said:


> Good for them. I for one think the challenge needs to come from the East Coast, maybe the NYYC again. The West just doesn't have what it takes in dedication to sailing. Face it, the tradition is just not big enough here.


Ya - think? 

The New York Yacht Club's clubhouse, Harbour Court, on Newport Harbor:


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Just throwing it out there. I am not familiar with whats what on the East Coast anymore, you would have a better idea of that. But, my point is that the tradition as a whole is older, and more dedicated in the East.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

You're right bf - since it's clear that yachting in the US originated in New England.

Interestingly though, some of the boat-building industry's most cutting-edge technology is utilized in NE boatyards. Take NEB - my marina, for instance, which created boats for a few AC challengers and other world class events.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> You're right bf - since it's clear that yachting in the US originated in New England.
> 
> Interestingly though, some of the boat-building industry's most cutting-edge technology is utilized in *NE* boatyards. Take NEB - my marina, for instance, which created boats for a few AC challengers and other world class events.


OK, I give up what boats are built in Nebraska?????


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Probably Bass Boats...with the Glitter gelcoat finishes... : )


T34C said:


> OK, I give up what boats are built in Nebraska?????


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