# New Sailer Looking for Sage Advice



## joebow (Mar 17, 2013)

Salutations! I am new to sailing and looking to get a lot of advice here. My first major sailing trip I will be doing is to sail down the ohio river to the ocean and back. Everything I do will be focused on making that happen. I look forward to hearing you all!


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Welcome to SailNet, Joe. That's an interesting trip. There is an endless supply of advice in this forum. Go check out the Learning to Sail section and spend some time reading the other forums. Guaranteed you'll have plenty of questions after just a few hours.

Best of luck with your journey.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Not trying to squash your dreams, but narrow, winding rivers like the Ohio really aren't good sailing rivers, not that it can't be done. Most likely, you will find yourself motoring a lot more than sailing.
What kind, size boat are you planning to make this trip with?


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## campuscab (Mar 1, 2013)

Motoring down the Erie Canal sounds fun. It is on my bucket list. The Mississippi sounds like more work. The Canal seems to be a bit tamer, shorter, and cool towns along the way.


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## Silvio (Nov 10, 2010)

Welcome aboard.
Plenty of advice around here, don't if any of it will be sage!
Stick around, ask questions, have a good time.


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## joebow (Mar 17, 2013)

I don't have any specific boat in mind at the moment. I do know so far that I want at least two mains, two jibs, a motor and a place to sleep. That's as specific as my requirements are at the moment.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Two mains and two jibs are an unusual requirement. Usually means an older classic boat and typically on the bigger size.
Any specific reason or do you just like the look.
The reason the older boats had that configuration was because before dacron sails and modern cordage they tried to keep the sails smaller because the larger ones would not hold their shape.
Also everything was heavier and winches were not yet standard.
Modern materials makes more efficient sail plans standard and half as complicated and fewer parts makes them less expensive.
The old schooner and ketches/yawls are sure pretty though.

Some of us are willing to have a boat that is harder to sail, more expensive to maintain and doesn't sail as well to have the old time look.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Travelling 1200 miles down the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers, two of the waterways with the heaviest vessel traffic in the world and the most difficult inland navigation, in a two masted sailboat sounds like a reasonable first goal for a novice sailor to me!

It would be even more fun in a wooden boat!


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

In the OP's defense, I read that to mean a back-up main and a back-up jib (or something like a 100 and a 130). If I'm wrong and he's talking about a schooner or ketch, then I'm with you James.


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## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

Hmmm????

Sounds like a candidate for a _Sea Pearl_ to me


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

jameswilson29 said:


> Travelling 1200 miles down the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers, two of the waterways with the heaviest vessel traffic in the world and the most difficult inland navigation, ...


Regardless of the type of boat, won't the lowered water level from the drought make it even more congested as more barges and powerboats have less space in which to maneuver?

A few years ago I had a 17-YO young lady take my boating course as her dream was to build a raft and travel the length of the Mississippi with a few of her friends. Her dad supported her and took the class, too. I think I heard that she did it. You might consider a raft.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

DRFerron said:


> A few years ago I had a 17-YO young lady take my boating course as her dream was to build a raft and travel the length of the Mississippi with a few of her friends. Her dad supported her and took the class, too. I think I heard that she did it. You might consider a raft.


Were her friends named Tom Sawyer, Huckleberry Finn and Big Jim?


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

joebow said:


> I don't have any specific boat in mind at the moment. I do know so far that I want at least two mains, two jibs, a motor and a place to sleep. That's as specific as my requirements are at the moment.


Joe,
You have to help us out here. When you say 2 mains, do you mean 2 masts or 2 separate main sails for 1 mast?
A place to sleep is good, but I assume you need to cook, have refrigeration to keep food and a place to go to the bathroom. Do you want to be able to stand up in the boat or can you live in a stooped position? Tell us the amenities you need.

Most of us have one main sail that can be reefed (shortened) when wind is high and again, most of us have 1 jib on roller furling that again, can be shortened when wind is high.

Motor - inboard (diesel or gas) or outboard? Again, on narrow winding rivers, you're going to be doing a lot more motoring than sailing. I suggest an inboard diesel.

When do you plan to make this trip and how much time are you going to give it?

One other thing to keep in mind. Going down river is no problem. You can do that on a raft as the current will carry you. Going back up river is going to be the problem. You're going to need a decent engine that can fight the current.


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## joebow (Mar 17, 2013)

My first thought was a main per mast, a place to sleep, eat and use the restroom. I'm not sure how long it will take nor am I really sold on those specs for the boat. I just needed a logical place to start. As for the motor it will be inside but I'm not sure of the pros and cons of gas vs des at the moment. Date of the trip is not been picked yet as I am going to do several other shorter runs first, many of which will consist of working with locks simply because those are the biggest issues I face in my mind at the moment. I am sure it will be difficult but to me that is even better reason to do it.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Well, you will be looking at no less than 25'. I don't know of any boat smaller than that with an inboard and even then, they are few and far between. Most inboards are 27' and up. Most sailboats these days have diesels but some older boats may still have the old Atomic 4 gas engine. I've never had one but I understand they were fairly reliable and easy to work on. Still, diesels are they way to go.
I'm obviously partial to Catalinas, and a good place to start would be a Catalina 25, if you can find any with inboards or the Catalina 27. You'll find quite a few 27's with inboards.
They are very good boats, very popular and thousands of each were made.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

joebow said:


> My first thought was a main per mast, a place to sleep, eat and use the restroom... As for the motor it will be inside but I'm not sure of the pros and cons of gas vs des at the moment.


The Chesapeake workboats have a cool, gritty look with the engine on top of the open cockpit floor, covered by a removable box, so you might want to re-think the engine inside preference.

I have also wondered why one doesn't just install the restroom outside, like a green Don's John bolted to the cockpit floor of a large boat. Get's the odor out of the cabin and promotes circulation in the restroom.

I think we may be looking at a custom 2-masted boat here!


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

*suggestion*

Joe,

Rather than dictating things you're a little beyond yourself on (I had a ketch; we kept the main on the mainmast, and the mizzen on the mizzen. A second main wouldn't have fit well on the mizzen. In some 20 years of two mast obsession I've seen exactly one schooner with equal masts, and it didn't even have two mainsails!) you might consider seeing what's out there for cheap on craigslist.

A few thousand $ could find you the boat that might fulfil your dreams. Come back here with candidates and the nice folks will help you evaluate. Your initial criteria are pretty good: a head, a galley, a berth. Rules out some tiny pocket cruisers and daysailors. Might add standing headroom, and figure out draft limitations. 5' will do you on the canal systems in Ontario I believe, but I think Mark Twain's riverboats drew less than 2'.

Sorry, not many double masters made in the last 50 years under 35' or so - no need to split the rig. I had one, but it wasn't a comfortable cruising boat


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

chuck53 said:


> I'm obviously partial to Catalinas, and a good place to start would be a Catalina 25, if you can find any with inboards or the Catalina 27. You'll find quite a few 27's with inboards.
> They are very good boats, very popular and thousands of each were made.


I think I'm wrong about the C-25 being available with an inboard engine. Looks like the smallest Catalina with inboard would be the C-27.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Chuck, you aren't wrong, but C25s with inboards are rare.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

jimgo said:


> Chuck, you aren't wrong, but C25s with inboards are rare.


Thanks Jim for the verification. I thought I had seen a C25 some years ago with an inboard but I did some digging on the internet and couldn't find anything to support my memory.
Anyway, there are plenty of 27's with inboards.

It would be nice to hear back from joebow on this.


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## joebow (Mar 17, 2013)

Ultimately no sail boat, at this point, is out of the realm of possibilities so long as it can support an extended stay and won't accompany me to the bottom of the river.  I've been cruising Craigslist for a few days just seeing whats out there and can get, what appears to be, some good deals. Like I said, at this point in time i'm all about getting some book knowledge; following that i'll be taking a basic and intermediary course on sailing at the local club. Charter a few sail boats to get a better feel for the various options and then work on some creative financing options.


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## tparoxtar (Jun 6, 2013)

My advice? Look out for debris! That river is littered with trees, logs and other fun stuff to crack your hull.


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## Windclimber (Jun 8, 2013)

Get a copy of River-Horse by William Least Heat Moon (who wrote the bestseller Blue Highways years ago.) When he's not going off on tangents he tells the story of crossing the country by small boat, east to west, portaging by trailer when he has to.

The Mississippi delta is not just a few divergent branches and then a pop into the sea - take a good look at some charts and Google maps! And there's some serious commercial shipping there, so MAKE SURE you can get out of the way!

Also, if you're planning to go "to the ocean and back" but not out on the ocean, a sailboat is probably not your best choice for the river, especially coming back up! These days it's amazing how much powerboat you can get for a few thousand, and on the return trip, going against the current for 1200 miles, you're going to need a little power. I'm a sailboat-er, for sure, but on the river, since you're not going to be doing any appreciable sailing anyway, a powerboat would have much more living space and be more comfortable.
PS - Originally I come from Pittsburgh, up the Allegheny from the Ohio, so I've been on that water. There aren't nearly as many barges traveling there as I remember (is "Rocket" still rolling?), but damn, I'd really, really hate trying to both keep my keel out of the slurpy muddy banks and keep my "sailboats have right of way" with a barge!

Good luck, and remember, an adventure is never, ever what one expects: that's the rule!


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Guys, the OP hasn't posted in 2-1/2 months. I doubt he's even on SN anymore.


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