# Roller Furlers..



## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

I did a search of the forum and can't find info on this..

Can you list the best roller furler systems and the worst ones?

I am thinking of buying one and I need to know what to aim for and what to stay away from.

Also maybe, desired features...

Thanks!
groundhog


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Are you talking for mainsails or for headsails? It would also help if you said what kind of boat it is, since some furlers aren't made small enough or large enough for certain boats.


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## Joel73 (Apr 23, 2007)

The _Harken MKIV Unit 0_ has worked great for us. It's a little pricey compared to some but i've never had a single problem with it.

See: http://shop.sailnet.com/product_info.php/products_id/33839?search=1&keywords=Harken%20MKIV


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

Sorry..
Headsail. 27' Albin Vega.
gh


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## Joel73 (Apr 23, 2007)

groundhog said:


> Sorry..
> Headsail. 27' Albin Vega.
> gh


Our Harken is on the headsail of our Pearson 27... so if you went this route you would want the Unit 0 as well. Never had a jam... smooth. Now i've probably jinxed us!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

In my experience quality of the furler has far less to do with its success than quality and arrangement of the installation. 
For a 27' cruiser you might check out the CDI or Alado types that have integral halyard. These usually cost less, and avoid the struggle with the halyard swivel.

Another way to look at things: warranty

*Harken:* seven (7) years from date of purchase. This warranty covers defects in materials or workmanship.
*
Schaefer: *free from factory defects in material and workmanship for a period of five (5) years from the date of purchase

*CDI:* six years from date of purchase. covers unseamanlike use, winching against obstructions, and rough and abusive yard handling.

*Alado* Lifetime warranty to the original purchaser.

*Profurl:* covered by a 5 year worldwide warranty.

Of course terms and conditions muddy the waters a lot. I think having a warranty like CDI (they will replace it if you run it over with a car, or winch it to pieces) is a huge plus, vs those that only cover material defects.
_Disclaimer: some of this info was from second hand sites so check it out for yourself. _


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

I had a Harken (Mk III) on previous boat. Worked fairly well, but for a few jams when line would override inside drum. On my current boat I went with Profurl after much research and cost analysis. Very high quality has performed well in all conditions, and was easy to install.

I would agree that installation issues like the feed angle of the line have a lot to do with how well a unit works.


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## Joel73 (Apr 23, 2007)

T34C said:


> .......
> I would agree that installation issues like the feed angle of the line have a lot to do with how well a unit works.


Same here. The 90 degree angle is crucial.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I have a Furlex 200 unit on a telstar 28... and it's a solid unit. You'd probably want to go down a size, but I'm not 100% sure of that, as it depends on the sail measurements IIRC.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Let's see*

Wow I've owned a lot of boats and had a lot of furlers;

Here's the list and my take on the ones I've owned.

*Hood -* Served me well, always worked, but had minor corrosion issues. (this was not the single line model)
*Furlex 200S-* Served me well, and always worked, but had some small plastic pieces that broke like the lower bearing cover for the swivel.
*Schaefer 2100-* Served me well, always worked, zero problems.
*CDI -* Numerous problems upgraded to the Furlex listed above.
*Hyde-* Worked, but of questionable quality, esoteric, and now defunct.
*Pro-Furl #32-* Served me well, always worked, zero problems but company tough to deal with (parts).
*Harken MK-IV -* Installed last spring and working flawlessly but the line that comes with it sucks!

So in short I'd recommend a Harken, Furlex or Schaefer. I personally feel the Schaefer is the most robustly built but it's also the most expensive unit of the three. That being said the Harken MK-IV, I feel, currently offers the most bang for the buck and I like the "over turnbuckle" design. A Unit 0 would work well for your boat..

If you're doing it yourself the Harken was the easiest to assemble. Not that any of them are hard though..








The drum will slide right up the extrusion for access to a head stay turnbuckle..


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I have had my CDI for 6 years with no problems. It installed easily and has internal haylard wich gives you the original haylard as an extra. I would go for the optional ball bearings. CDI's site says "Lifetime" warrenty.


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

Which ones don't jamb?

Which ones are the best buy for the money?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

CDI is probably the cheapest. Here is the site.
http://www.cruisingdirect.com/cd/CD_catalog.taf?_function=list&category=26&subcategory=43


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Improperly used, any furler will jam... halyard wraps and improperly tensioned halyards are a problem. Also, unfurling the sail without leaving the furling line under tension is another big source of jamming.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailingdog said:


> Improperly used, any furler will jam... halyard wraps and improperly tensioned halyards are a problem. Also, unfurling the sail without leaving the furling line under tension is another big source of jamming.


This is true but with the internal haylard of the CDI, the haylard problem is not there but the furling line tension is. But I have seen somwhere (not sure what it is called) a line tensioner, basically a line guide to mount on a stantion that puts tension on the line. I would really like to try it since I single hand.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes, but the intergral jib halyard models trade off one set of problems for another. The integral halyards are difficult to tension under sail IIRC. As for tensioning the furling line, run it through a ratchet block. 



Catalina274me said:


> This is true but with the internal haylard of the CDI, the haylard problem is not there but the furling line tension is. But I have seen somwhere (not sure what it is called) a line tensioner, basically a line guide to mount on a stantion that puts tension on the line. I would really like to try it since I single hand.


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

Is there a furler system where it's easy to change sails?

Like if you get in a blow and you know it's comming, can you easily change furler sails to a smaller one? Is this even an effective plan or does the storm foresail need to be nearer the mast?

gh


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Most of the major players support doing such that from what I found trying to determine if roller furling was doable. Determined on the brand - it is easier or harder or the same if you didn't have the furler...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

or..


Removable inner stay works well for storm jib..

To be honest I have yet to meet a cruiser who changes their headsail on any regular basis. I've even met a couple that circumnavigated with ONLY their main and furling headsail.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Another choice for a storm sail is the ATN GaleSail. It is designed to go up over the furled headsail. However, an inner solent stay is probably a better choice, since the center of effort will be further aft, but installing one is probably more expensive than the GaleSail.


groundhog said:


> Is there a furler system where it's easy to change sails?
> 
> Like if you get in a blow and you know it's comming, can you easily change furler sails to a smaller one? Is this even an effective plan or does the storm foresail need to be nearer the mast?
> 
> gh


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

Somebody earlier mentioned this brand in passing..
Anybody have any experience with them or knowledge?
Believe they are cheap... like $500.

http://www.alado.com/


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## Joel73 (Apr 23, 2007)

This is a little embarrassing but... what is the function of this piece of equipment?


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

Check out Facnor furlers I have had one my boat for 10 years and no problems at all.


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## kbyte (Jun 6, 2007)

Installed an Alado furler about a year ago. Did it myself with the help of a friend in about two hours.

I got the next size up ($700) version for my Cal 227. Probably not necessary, but I got some spare extrusions out of the deal.

It's worked flawlessly. I highly recommend it.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

It's a prefeeder Joel. It is to align the luff tape with the slot in the extrusion so it won't bind and tear. It helps a great deal but isn't totally fool proof. Enjoy!
Regards,
Red


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Some furlers, like the Furlex I have, have one built into the drum. The way they work is you put the wire luff of the sail into the gap between the two rollers, and the idea is that it will help keep the wire luff feeding into the groove on the foil properly, without having to handle the headsail's luff manually.



Joel73 said:


> This is a little embarrassing but... what is the function of this piece of equipment?


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

I'm hearing mostly about reliability and quality.

But what about features? Design differences? 

What can your furler do that no other furlers can do?

Or are they all basically the same?


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

On the gale sail, why wouldn't you just pull out the fully furled sail a little bit? Doesn't that give you the same sail profile as hanking the gale sail on?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

groundhog said:


> On the gale sail, why wouldn't you just pull out the fully furled sail a little bit? Doesn't that give you the same sail profile as hanking the gale sail on?


Partially unfurled sails really don't set all that well, esp for "purists". But more importantly the typical 130-150% genoa on your furler is not nearly heavy enough material for serious breezes.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Faster said:


> Partially unfurled sails really don't set all that well, esp for "purists". But more importantly the typical 130-150% genoa on your furler is not nearly heavy enough material for serious breezes.


There have been stated guidelines for how much you can reef (all my books are on the boat). Generally I think 10-15% Anymore you get a HUGE pocket, the exposed area moves higher and higher up.. It stops being a sail.. you might as well have a load of laundry hanging from the fore stay. I think you will find most furling sails around the 135% mark.. Any less and you won't be going anywhere on a normal day.. With a 150 you are going to start to loose ability to sail to windward the further it is reefed. As with everything, its a compromise. You could do what ocean racers do and have several head sails for every wind range on separate furlers. I think thats as close to as ideal as you are going to get. Everyones doin it 








This guy is ready for anything!


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

I understand that, but if you look at the pic of the gale sail in one of the above posts (pg 2 I think), it looks like you end up with the same thing as if you just pulled out your furled sail a bit.

With the gale sail, you hank on this very small sail, over the totally furled headsail, using the existing forestay.


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

On post number 30.. The one with the picture of the boat with the two furlers and the storm sail...

If you add the two extra forestays to an existing rig that doesn't have them originally, will you be adding extra pressure points that may make the mast fail?

My boat just has the one forestay. If I wish to add another forestay, do I need to make other mods to the rig too?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

GH

That (ridiculously) modified Mac26 has had significant mods made to the mast too... extra spreaders, jumpers, the sprit and bobstay... to try to deal with the issues that you bring up. So it wasn't all "just added". But it was done by someone with too many ideas, a little too much money and (dare I say it?) too little sense.

Re the Gale Sail vs a hankerchief unfurled... I think you missed my point about the sail cloth being too lightweight on an average genoa for truly heavy conditions.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

> ...it looks like you end up with the same thing as if you just pulled out your furled sail a bit.


No.....

you don't










It will look more like that. But you are free to try!



> ....I began to feel that that the worse was over. Just as we were eating supper about 1930 hr a squall of over 40 kts hit the boat, but we were a little tardy getting on deck as there was nowhere to safely put down our plates in the violent motion we were experiencing. When we did climb through the hatch we saw the jib had torn above the clew from the leach horizontally for several feet. We furled the sail and in order to give some drive forward of the mast I decided to hand the spitfire and set the staysail. I....
> ....More disturbing was the sight of the furled jib. The Dacron above the tear had not fully rolled up when we furled the sail and now the strong wind worried and tugged at the piece of cloth so that slowly the tear lengthened and the upper part of the sail began to unwrap.


http://www.yachtfiona.com/stormwithfionaname.html


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

(you know how when you don't totally understand everything, but you understand enough to know there might be something really bad in there somewhere...? 
You just get kind of scared.)

So let's see Sailboy. If I am in a big storm. And you pull out your furled sail just a bit. It is possible that the wind can yank the whole thing out and rip it up like in the picture above. Is that correct?

And the gail sail device prevents this from happening while also presenting the desired smaller sail area up front. Is this correct Faster?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

groundhog;250930...So let's see Sailboy. If I am in a big storm. And you pull out your furled sail just a bit. It is possible that the wind can yank the whole thing out and rip it up like in the picture above. Is that correct?
And the gail sail device prevents this from happening while also presenting the desired smaller sail area up front. Is this correct Faster?[/quote said:


> With regard to the rolled sail pulling out on you in a blow, it can happen. Whoever is manning the furling line really has to have it under control and be able to secure it well before it fully unfurls.
> 
> The gale sail idea should present the correct sail area, sufficiently strong material, and a better shape for the conditions (with less risk of damage to your genoa).


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Exactly! I gather from the story I posted that the damage was in 40 knot winds, which is quite a bit less than worst case scenario for those who venture offshore. It can happen at the dock too. In Charleston S.C., I was living aboard when a front rolled in with some 45mph gusts. On two boats, there was significant damage, shreds of sails flopping about. One older gentleman had arrived a day earlier in a large 44' center cockpit sloop. His jib somehow unfurled with such force that it bent the foil, and prevented furling it back in OR LOWERING IT WITHOUT CUTTING IT FREE. I came out to help. We eventually managed to get a free halyard around it, but the jib was badly damaged, as was the furler. Imagine trying to contend with 300 sqft of uncontrollable sailcloth. Then imagine it at sea... There is a reason a lot of very experienced sailors don't have furling gear. 
Just a fair warning. Furling makes life a lot more pleasurable for messing about.. but it primarily a sail storage system, with the added benefit of being able to take a few turns and _slightly_ extend the wind range for your genoa.


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

So in a storm, you'll have to go forward anyway. Even if you have a roller furler.

If you are using hank-ons, you go forward and put up a smaller sail.

If you are using a furler, you wind it all the way up and either put up a gale-sail, or you put up the baby forestay and a small storm foresail.

Or you just use your reefed main and no foresail. Just roll it all the way up.

Is this correct?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

You got it. When its really blowing like stink your boat won't sail well with just a reefed main alone. You need that storm jib to hold the bow down. Are you planning on offshore sailing? I bet if you surveyed every sailboat at a random dock about their heavy weather sail inventory, you _might_ find 1 or 2 boats fully equipped, or none, they don't know, there is a bag in a locker that has a sail in it the PO told them about they have never seen etc...

BTW: "gale sail" is not the only option. You can have a jib set on a wire luff, hoisted free from a spare halyard. I have used these, and found them to be difficult and somewhat dangerous. You have to get a lot of halyard tension or else they flop around like a halibut, and they don't go to weather well.. but that is an option too.

This is a good read and addresses about all the issues brought up here: http://www.sailjazz.com/editorial/read/159


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BTW, if you want an inner forestay that doesn't require you to modify your rigging too much, setup a solent stay. This attaches to the mast at about the same location as the normal forestay, so it generally doesn't require running backstays to support it. The bottom end of the solent stay is usually setup using a highfield lever or some other device that allows you to connect and quickly tension the stay. The plate the highfield lever connects to needs to be tied into the hull and deck very securely though.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

I personally liked the Profurl due to its ability to be installed over existing forestay (without modification), size and strength of components, sealed bearings, halyard wrap preventer included, ability to mount flush to deck or on long link plates above deck level right all included, price.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

I've got a Furlex 200 on my head sail, and a Schaefer on my Screacher, with a Schaffer traverler on my main. I'm truly impressed by the customer support of the Shaefer products.
I've never had a problem but some of the folks on the Gemini user group were, after being contacted by one user a representative of Schaefer joined our user group and posted solutions (operation and installation, not design or defects), contacts at the company, etc.. for the group.
Since then he has also assisted with conversion kit information etc..tracked shipping, and generally been all the help you could ask for.


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## millerman (Nov 1, 2005)

I've been thinking of putting a roller furling headsail on my boat, 77 San Juan 23ft. Are these items hard to install?


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## bsfree (Oct 25, 2001)

I was very happy with the Reefurl I installed on my last boat, and will be installing another on my present boat. As a previous poster said, maintaining tension on the line when unfurling the sail is very important to prevent snags on the drum. Here's the link http://www.furlings.com/index.php


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

FYI..
Here is a link to another very interesting discussion on roller furlers and hanked sails.

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=240&page=4


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I'm late to this discussion and perhaps am somewhat unusual in that I didn't have furling until 2006. I have a Profurl unit on my new steel boat, but just on the forestay/yankee jib. The staysail is hank on and will stay that way as my deck configuration (an anchor well and plenty of protection forward) means I can easily reef it down and maintain its shape.

Profurl is working out for me: dissembling it for service convinced me that it's a strongly built unit. My other friends with large, gale-friendly boats also favour Schaefer furlers. 

My personal choice would be hank-ons, but this gets to be impractical after 35 feet in terms not only of stowage of eight to 12 sail bags, but in terms of handling the inevitably massive No. 1s.

I do find that I tend to avoid reefing the jib: if it gets too strong to have it all out, I tend to roll it up tightly and then to raise the full staysail, after which I start reefing down the main.

But I'm still learning.


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## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

I will not pretend to know a lot about furlers, since like you, I am also shopping. I have done a fair amount of internet research on furlers for the boat length you speak of - 27' - mine is 26' LOA and solicited a fair amount of opinions. The CDI has a great price and is most popular among trailer sailors. What I don't like about it is the internal halyard and limited luff tensioning, not to mention the hassle involved with changing headsails. Beyond the CDI they start to get expensive, next up was the Schaefer Snapfurl CF700, I found a number of happy sailors using them. It is easily installed, allows for easy changing of headsails and uses your existing halyard for luff control, not to mention it is flexible for trailering. Since it is less expensive than the Harken, Profurl and other higher end ones and yet meets my needs I am sold on it. As much as I like my hank-ons and they will require conversion to #6 luff tape, health issues are influencing me to find ways of remaining in the cockpit. Going forward for headsail management is becomming risky so I have decided to get a furler. I found one (Snapfurl CF700) for just over $700.00 so I will likely spring for it. As long as I can easily choose and hoist which headsail to uses (at the slip) and then remove it once back at my slip I am satisfied. My research has shown that Schaefer adresses my needs the best at the best price.


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

*Along these lines*

Our new San Juan 21 came with a CDI FF2 and genoa. Working jib was stolen. Finally raised the mast two days ago and unfurled the genny. Said "No way!" for two reasons: first, it's too darn big and will kill us; second, the 'J' on this boat is too short to pull a genoa snug before hitting the shrouds and spreaders -- might cost us 5-10 degrees pointing ability, lousy gap control.

Should we:
a) Cut down the genoa into a saner, albeit pootchie 100%, keep the furler.
b) Replace the genoa with a working jib but keep the furler.
c) Ditch the genoa and furler, replace with hank-on 100% and maybe a storm jib. Rig a downhaul for singlehanding or sudden blows.

I confess, I grew up with hanked-on headsails. They make sense to me. While the furler on the Buccaneer18 is handy, that's a boat where "all or nothing" is what you want in a jib. I think the SJ21 can handle and would benefit from a more balanced sailplan, but this is a deep genoa and looks baggy when roller reefed. Advice welcome.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Hmmmmmmmmm

b


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

We recently added a furler to our boat, having had either hanked or luff tape sails on two of our recent boats. While I enjoyed the idea of having the "right sail at the right time" with hank-ons, we were envious of our cruising friends when they could just "zip" out a sail if a breeze came up, and easily stow it when it died.

The other issue when cruising is the Vberth or Qberth full of extra sailbags.

We do not intend to use it as a "reefer". One of our previous race boats had a furled headsail but it was simply a way to put the sail away, not intended to be reefed. We are going to try the same with this boat. The sail is a recut J105 jib that will likely be too small for the summer light airs, so we will be looking for a 130-140% sail as well. But I will be changing the sail to suit the conditions rather than routinely reef by rolling.

There is no UV protection strip on the sail either, so for now it gets put away at the dock.

Time will tell how that works out.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

A friend at the marina had a 135 which need cleaning, UV protection, and a wire installed as a luff tape before he could use roller furling. Sailcare (in PA) did the modifications on the sail and sold him the roller furler. Since they did it all, they gave him a nice discount. I don't remember the brand furler they sell (I think it was Schaeffer,) but I helped him install it 2 years ago. It was very easy to install, works very well, and has caused no problems for him. Since they are one of the few suppliers who can do it all (and provide a discount) it would seem to me worth checking out!


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Faster said:


> There is no UV protection strip on the sail either, so for now it gets put away at the dock.


BTW- UV resistant dacron can be added to the sail very easily to help protect it when furled. Going this route, instead of using something like sunbrella material, adds very little weight to the sail and thus has minimal preformance affect.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

T34C said:


> BTW- UV resistant dacron can be added to the sail very easily to help protect it when furled. Going this route, instead of using something like sunbrella material, adds very little weight to the sail and thus has minimal preformance affect.


Thanks, T34C, that's true and we knew that... for the time being I am planning to stow the sail below between trips anyway, so will not worry about it for now. But we would definitely avoid the sunbrella type for various reasons.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Faster said:


> Thanks, T34C, that's true and we knew that... for the time being I am planning to stow the sail below between trips anyway, so will not worry about it for now. But we would definitely avoid the sunbrella type for various reasons.


I figured you knew that already, but thought I'd throw it out there just in case.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

groundhog said:


> Can you list the best roller furler systems and the worst ones?


Hog,

Could I suggest going to the next boat show you can find (The Baltimore Show starts tomorrow, January 23rd through the weekend, with a small sail section http://www.baltimoreboatshow.com/attendees/directory/exhibitorslist.aspx ) and look at the different units for yourself.

I think I mentioned to you in a reply to your PM why I selected the Harken Unit 2, and am very pleased with it, with the exception of the line that comes with it. I sent a inquiry to Harken about this "grip" and got a reasonable and prompt response from them, an example of good customer service IMO.


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## Aloha27 (Oct 5, 2004)

We installed Furlex 100S on our Aloha 27 ten years ago. Never regretted buying it for a minute. (Kinda spendy though...)

Good Luck


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

The best roller furler, is a thing called "Code Zero", its a continuous loop, no drum, no jam, no tangle, no hassle...

Made by Facnor...don't believe me??

Opens in gales, closes in gales, just be carefull don't hold the runing line when opening...it will give you a slightly hot finger...ehehehe





































The furler is called a Code Zero, and for my boat it was custom built. Here is the manufacturer FACNOR. Once opened clock in Custom and then code zero.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Hey, Alex, is it cold enough for you in Nebraska? heh heh heh...

That furler was nice, even though we never needed to furl it until the end of the day.


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## Gene Smith (May 10, 2006)

*Don't buy furler until you see ReefRite from New Zealand!!!!*

Three years now we have been using the REEF RITE. Not only does it have bullet-proof New Zealand construction and materials, it's unique features are head and shoulders above _anything_ else I've seen. It has a built in ratcheting lock which keeps the sail from unfurling unless the included trip line that runs neatly next to furling line is activated. This is reassuring when the boat is unattended in a big blow but also takes the load off the furling line when the sail is partially furled. This prevents the drum and foil from spinning back and forth under loads from puffs and chafing the sail from constant furling and unfurling a couple inches. With other furlers the furling line is the only thing you have between a furled sail and disaster (if/when the furling line parts). Another unique feature is the Kiwi slide and furler foil with twin track and gate similar to what's on a mast track. With the Kiwi slides instead of a luff tape the sail glides up the foil so easily that there is no feeder (or the screaming and swearing) necessary to hoist the foresail. The design of the foil and gate keep the lowered sail safely contained on the foredeck in the 2 feet of foil below the gate. This is fantastic when changing down headsails at sea! You will need a pennant at the top of the smaller headsails to insure the head swivel reaches the top of the hoist to insure the sail will furl without the halyard wrapping around the foil. Our ReefRite hasn't skipped a beat 3 years now and we quickly and easily change headsails at the dock and at sea. Here's the safety of multiple hank-on sails combined with the convenience of a furling headsail! I love it!!! Furler price includes new forestay with special long swage (that's another great feature!)

Google ReefRite!

It's worth a look! I had trouble with the US rep, hopefully they have a new one- the unit is superb!


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

T37Chef said:


> I sent a inquiry to Harken about this "grip" and got a reasonable and prompt response from them, an example of good customer service IMO.


Sooo? What was the outcome? This Harken line STINKS and customers should not be expected to spend another $100.00 on furler line that's actually usable when they already spent the money to buy a new furler that was supposed to come with line & not water ski tow rope..

P.S. I'll ask this question again. Does anyone know where to buy the line that comes with the Furlex line of furlers???


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

G- Nice furler, but did you have to mount it on such an ugly boat??


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

But Giu, Facnor is French!!!!


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

My ship has the Shaeffer.
It's a good unit and has served me well.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> But Giu, Facnor is French!!!!


You know how he LOVES the French.


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## fendertweed (Apr 4, 2003)

I've had a Furlex (Selden) 100S on my Pearson 26 for 5 yrs. now, no complaints at all, it's great. I did it when redoing standing rigging and the rigger did a nice installation, it's easy and reliable.


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## RickQuann (May 27, 2005)

Profurl; easy installation, competitively priced and extremely reliable.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

*We'll see...*



halekai36 said:


> Sooo? What was the outcome?


No real outcome, yet...but I have received several responses from Harken reps. Although I wasn't really satisfied with the explanation for choosing the line they did, a senior engineer has prompted a meeting with Yale Cordage (in which I was CC'd on) to review the issue raised, apparently by about 20 customers.

Not often do I see such a swift and thorough response from a company. I'll post updates as I receive them.

I forgot to add that I have been impressed with how well the sail performs when reefed. A good design by Harken and the sail loft. I have had my old storm sail and working jib fitted with a luff tape, but it is nice to see the performance from a reefed sail for short trips on the Chesapeake.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

T37Chef said:


> I have had my old storm sail and working jib fitted with a luff tape, but it is nice to see the performance from a reefed sail for short trips on the Chesapeake.


Storm sail? Any chance to use it yet? Ocean racers have to lash their storm sails to the foil _just in case._ Do you have provisions to do that? I can picture what a flogging storm jib in 55knots would do to a foil  bet it sounds ugly too..


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

Yes, I am planning to go to that boat show in Baltimore in the next couple of days. I've heard that you can somehow get winter and boat show discounts.... ?

Someone posted that they got new sails for close to the price of used ones.
We'll see.

The problem is, with this spirited debate going on here.. and no real definitive answer.. I still have yet to decide which way to go.

THINGS THAT FAVOR HANKED SAILS:
I am the type of person that likes to get max performance and fiddle with things. I am still learning and need to learn more about sail trim. I am still young enough to run around on the boat. I think I will be iritated if I can't point my boat into the wind. Sounds like you have to go forward to put on a storm sail in a gale anyway if you have a roller furler. Your furled sails will stretch out quicker if you reef them to varying wind conditions. 

THINGS THAT FAVOR A ROLLER FURLER:
I will be singlehanding quite a bit. Less sail bags laying around. Less time on the foredeck in bad conditions. People that have roller furlers go sailing more due to convenience. Although I have the physical ability to go forward and change hanked sails, statistically speaking, the less times you are forward, the less chances you have to get thrown off. 

Have I missed anything?
groundhog


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

groundhog said:


> ..


Nope that covers it from my perspective (but I wear 4 inch bug eye glasses)...

One of the things to consider though is that there are furler systems that try to bridge the two practices... I have 7 sails myself... granted I use maybe one or two... but if I was to have a furler system - I would want the ability to easily shank up an alternative as easily as it can be done normally...reefing from that perspective is a no no for me anyways - I prefer to reef the main... and drop the others...

The right selection eliminates the need to go forward or store immediately another sail - however a huge consideration is the UV and mold issues... I can't tell you the number of people with furlers that I have sailed with that it looked like literally it was a green / black neo design of a sail because the mold of all kinds just took home of it...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

artbyjody said:


> reefing from that perspective is a no no for me anyways - I prefer to reef the main... and drop the others...


there ya go.. reef! 
I forgot all about reef-able jibs. I actually have one. Its 90% and goes down to just above storm jib size. Problem is I usually don't fly it since every time I needed the storm jib I was caught with the old zipper down, so to say... But hey, the Pardeys do it. Ask you sail maker about reef-able working jibs.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*furler*



sailingdog said:


> Are you talking for mainsails or for headsails? It would also help if you said what kind of boat it is, since some furlers aren't made small enough or large enough for certain boats.


i am not the person how asked the question but i am very interested by the answer
your are asking witch sail

the head sail and my boat is a macgregor 26X 1995

thak you


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

After all the discussion, two roller furlers seem different to me. The Facnor and the ReefRite systems. (Please correct me if I am missing anything..)

Seems like the ReefRite that was mentioned earlier has some nice features. Like the gate that allows very easy sail changes. You don't have to remove a drum. Then with the optional kiwi-slides (same as the little plastic cars on the main mast slot) you have a captive sail when taking down the sail and seems to minimise the chance of bolt rope jams. Also, a big plus is the winch like feature that is built into the drum and takes the load off of the reefing line.

Giulietta mentioned that the Facnor has a clutch built in (or is it external?). Is the clutch only on the continuous line series? Also, if you look at the pics of the continous line Facnor series on their website, the foot of the unfurled sail is right on the deck! How can this be? I thought you needed the clew to be high so the sail wraps correctly...

Oh, I think I know. The sail in the pic is a racing sail and has no UV strips.
Is that right?

How hard is changing sails on the Facnor? What is the procedure? Don't seem to see that on the website. Or anything about the clutch.

The ReefRite is about $2300 US. Anybody know how much the Facnor systems are?

thanks,
groundhog


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Groundhog-

I don't know of any roller furling system that requires you to remove a drum to change headsails. That really isn't a feature advantage on the ReefRite, since none of the brands are "missing" that feature. One reason most use a wire-luff head sail is that the sail shape is generally better than it would be with hanks or slugs. 

The UV strip is sewn over the leech edge of the sail and doesn't affect the height or cut of the sail. Chances are very likely that the sail in the photo is using a UV-blocking laminate film, like Tedlar, rather than having a sacrificial UV cover. 

The Facnor uses two line clutches to control the line, one for each direction IIRC.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

groundhog said:


> Giulietta mentioned that the Facnor has a clutch built in (or is it external?). Is the clutch only on the continuous line series? Also, if you look at the pics of the continous line Facnor series on their website, the foot of the unfurled sail is right on the deck! How can this be? I thought you needed the clew to be high so the sail wraps correctly...
> 
> Oh, I think I know. The sail in the pic is a racing sail and has no UV strips.
> Is that right?
> ...


GH,

This furler is as easy to hank on as a system without a furler. The track is the same, and we use a removable feeder to align the sail with the track, just like a fruler less system.

These types of roller furlers were created (because of the Withbread, now Volvo racers need to roll code zero spis and high performance genoas), to allow for a little extra performace by eliminating the space occupied by bulky drums at the head sail. Meaning that now you can have a low cut genoa that furls.

If you look carefully, the "thin" roller, you see in the photos is so low that it allows the clew of the sail to be as low to the deck as possible, like a race sail needs to be. These furlers are used in racing boats that need to furl the headsails and still provide same performance by maintaining sail area as a sail in a hank on system would allow.

At the same time, these roller furlers have a regular track that allows you to use your sails in the hank on mode.

Simply these allow a completely normal hank on racing sail to be used if needed, because in my case they have battens and can't be furled, but when racing we have crew to do it, as well as it allows as a same area performance cruising headsail to be used by a single hander without having to leave the cockpit. Additionally I can have a Code Zero sail there also or a furling Gennaker.

Its the best choice if you race alone, or in really bad weather, because you can still get performance without exposing yourself going forward. And in this case you must use batten less genoas, and to be furled its best to be dacron. that is why you only see my furler with dacron sails on.

the sail you see there in the photo is one of my dacron cruiser performance sails. It does have a UV strip, like SD well says, but its a little different from what you normally see. These sails were made and cut for performance, and ride quite low in the deck because the roller alows it, anf the UV fil is a thin plastic layer. It does not interfer with rolling the sail.

The system is simply a wheel, that has a teflon ring inside. It is controlled by a continuous loop line that allows the drum to be rotated either way, and the loop is secured via 2 jaw cleats in the cockpit. However, only works if tension on both lines of the loop is eased. If one of the lines is cleated, the inside ring has tension and doesn't allow the roller to rotate.

On the top, you have the halyard thru a feeder, into the roller, that is simply a bearing bush that slides along the track, thus never ever allowing it to jam.

The sails need to be cut so that the tack end is slightly higher, as opposed to a hank on racing sail whose tack is at deck level, to keep the roller feature.

This is where my roller continous loop cleats are



















This system is a little bit more expensive, an in my case back in 2005 when I ordered it, they didn't make them as a stock item as they do now, so it was custom built by Sparcraft/Facnor, as part of the deal I made with them form my mast, boom and spreaders.

Back then, and bear in mind in Europe we over pay for marine material, because of 40% taxes (that include the 21% sales tax), the system cost me around 4500 Euros, which is around $6000 now.

However, I believe in the US its much much cheaper, sold thru Charleston Spars IIRC, which is Sparcraft with an American name, as Sparcraft is French.

Because these systems are unique, there is still some customisation.

Now the good thing is they don't jam, are simple, light, provide excellent performance, furl and unfurl a genoa in 3 seconds, independent of the wind, meaning you can still reel the sail in in 60 knots winds, because of the added friction less leverage.

I personally like it, I have it since June 2006, and so far only cjecked if the bolts are fastenend and wash it regularly as the torlon bearings are exposed and easy to wash. Its pretty much a maintenance feee system, really.

Did I mention its light?? and damn sexy too.

Here some examples of the same system in a record breaking cat.


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

Ok, 

So the Facnor system still has large tensions on the furling line?

When you buy a furler sail, you can get one that has a low clew and still sweeps the deck (but above the drum at the tack)? You just get a thinner UV strip on the foot of the sail? When you say thinner UV strip, you mean in thickness or in height? If you have a low sweeping sail, does the foot furl onto itself while the luff wraps its way up the forestay?

The Facnor can furl both ways, while it sounds like the ReefRite can only furl one way.

The Facnor has a lower drum than the ReefRite.

The Facnor is more expensive.

They both seem easy to change sails..

Hows that? Am I straightened out?

gh


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

Oh, forgot something..

The Facnor is the super-model.. sexy!

The ReefRite is like that chubby-belly lady at the bar drinking tequila shots and looking at you hard.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

groundhog said:


> Ok,
> 
> So the Facnor system still has large tensions on the furling line?
> 
> ...


My comments in blue above!


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

groundhog said:


> Oh, forgot something..
> 
> The ReefRite is like that chubby-belly lady at the bar drinking tequila shots and looking at you hard.


Just like all fat ladies...they are built for confort, not for speed


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

Uh oh Giulietta, you just upset the chubby-belly lady that's at the bar looking at me...

She says, and I don't know what it means...
"KALUDA TO BOTH OF YOU!"

She's also apparently drinking Cristal and Constantino, not tequila.

And, now, I got no shot at either the super model or the chubby-belly lady.

gh


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Giu-

I think you mean the clew is above the tack in your previous post... the clew has to be above the tack, since the sail has to roll around the foil, above the drum... if the tack is lower than the clew, you're gonna have a problem.

Tack is at the roller drum... clew is at the end with the sheets attached.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

groundhog said:


> Uh oh Giulietta, you just upset the chubby-belly lady that's at the bar looking at me...
> 
> She says, and I don't know what it means...
> "KALUDA TO BOTH OF YOU!"
> ...


The comment was actually a compliment, this being a predominantely cruiser site, that don't give a rats but for speed, anyway.

Caluda means " SHUT UP", but in a less polite way.

Cristal and Constantino, huh?? Lady with taste!! 

Some man are very attracted to un-skinny ladies...tell her she's ok....

I can see her from here and she looks fine....


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Giu-
> 
> I think you mean the clew is above the tack in your previous post... the clew has to be above the tack, since the sail has to roll around the foil, above the drum... if the tack is lower than the clew, you're gonna have a problem.
> 
> Tack is at the roller drum... clew is at the end with the sheets attached.


Yes sorry I mispalced the words...English you know..

Sorry


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

Thanks Giulietta, think she feels better now.

I did reverse the clew/tack when reading Giuliettas post. thanks.

gh


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## apogee04 (Jan 28, 2008)

I have an old Harken Mk 1 still going strongish ..


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## RXBOT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Spam*

The last post was spam I believe.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

CHSSPAR-

Did you even bother to read the terms of services agreement?? or are you illiterate and didn't know what the words meant and just clicked the "I agree" box???


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