# Sail selection for family cruising ????



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

My wife and I bought a Sabre 28 this winter and we plan to cruise the Maine Coast. My wife is convinced that in order to minimize healing and to sail "safely" we should only sail with the headsail (135% genoa). She has made this a family boating "rule". Well without the main, sailing to windward is a bear. Is it better to sail under main only or genoa only when using only one sail. I am not so concerned with turn of speed as I am with windward ability and ease of sailing. My kids are only 4 and 2 !


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

This should have been prefaced by saying I raised the main under light air conditions this weekend only to have the wind blow up to 15-20 knots in a matter of minutes. It put the boat quickly over to 30 degrees and my wife and kids didn't "appreicate" getting tossed around the cabin.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Sounds like both you and your wife need to take some courses on sailing, that teach the basics of sailing theory and science.

That said, few boats will sail safely under just a 135% Genoa, particularly upwind. Using this sail will often put the center of effort (COE) forward of the center of lateral resistance (CLR-usually near the keel's center). This makes it very difficult to tack the boat through the wind, with out the help of the main sail to balance the boat. This will also generally leave the boat with serious lee helm, which makes the boat difficult to sail upwind, and is fairly dangerous-*if you lose control of the boat, it will head down, and if you're sailing close-hauled and not able to release the sheets in time, will come through a beam reach and seriously risk getting knocked down. *A slight amount of weather helm is preferable to any amount of lee helm.

Some boats do sail well under just the main alone, but in many cases, this puts the COE behind the CLR, and may cause serious weather helm... making the boat harder to keep under control.

Ideally, the boat should be almost balanced with the COE almost directly above the CLR. As a boat heels, the COE moves outboard, and the hull's water profile becomes asymetrical, which both will tend to cause the boat to head down, if you're sailing upwind. Under just the Genoa, this is amplified.

If your wife is insistent on sailing on just a single sail at a time, which I don't recommend, I would say that you will probably want to sail upwind on just the main and downwind on just the genoa. At least doing this will put the COE in the proper location with respect to the CLR and help keep the boat going in the direction you want.

If your wife is so concerned with minimizing heeling _(not healing, which is what you need when you get thrown across the boat and hurt)_ and believes that the only way to sail a boat is to sail it level, *you would have been much better off getting a trimaran or catamaran.*


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I have personally been sailing for twenty years on dinghies, small cats, and windsurfers, not so much on larger boats. I am actually quite well versed on sailing theory. Sorry for typing healing instead of heeling. You probably got the point right ? My wife however is very green when it comes to sailing. The healing issue has to do mostly with my small children. 4 and 2 ! I appreciate your comments. Of course they make sense. I guess I am soliciting responses to best explain the whole situation to my wife. Center of effort and center of lateral resistance isn't going to cut it. Thanks.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I typed healing again. Sorry ! HEELing.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

What's needed here is some education, and some time to get used to the idea that the boat isn't going to fall over and stay there. Also, why are your wife and kids in the cabin?? Getting your family involved in sailing is best done in the cockpit. Even 4 year olds can be involved in some minor way, "helping" dad steer, "helping" tail the sheets.
The analogy I use for newbies re: ballast and heeling is to talk about those old punching clowns, you know, the inflatable clowns that had sandbags at the base that you could hit, they'd fall over and immediately stand up again? That visual usually helps them get used to the idea that the boat will return upright in the end.
Sailing is what it is, and heeling is part of the game and should not be something that, in itself, is feared. It's simply the physics of how things work.
I'm a lucky guy in that my wife would prefer to bash to weather at 25 degrees in 25 knots than sail downwind in 15 knots... go figure!

And Sailingdog is correct in saying there is a danger in sailing with the sailplan all forward.


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## FrankLanger (Dec 27, 2005)

I agree with the others that sailing with only one or the other sail is not the best (though many boats do sail well with only the headsail!!). Have you considered sailing with both sails somewhat underpowered, so that even in a puff/gust, the boat won't heel much--I am thinking a 100% headsail and perhaps a reefed mainsail, even in relatively lighter airs, so your wife/kids can see that the boat can be stable and safe. When they get bored with the slow speed, and more comfortable with "boat motion", they may then ask you to shake out the reef, and eventually sail with a proper sized headsail. If you take baby steps til they get comfortable, they may become good crew for you.
Good luck!
Frank.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

Newbies are frightened when a sailboat heels because they don't have confidence that the boat won't fall over and dump them in the water, and because they don't have confidence that the skipper is actually in control of the boat. The only way you can overcome those fears is to prove the contrary. That means when the wife and kids are on the boat, you have to reduce sail area so that the boat is underpowered, and, if the wind pipes up, you have to reduce sail area further, so that the boat never heels to such an extent that it alarms them. After they gain confidence in the boat and in your ability to control it, they'll start to enjoy the exhilaratioin of the heeling, instead of being frightened by it, and then you can sail the boat with more sail area. You have to be patient with them at this point, or they'll all come to hate the boat. Give them time, and they'll come around.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hey Jack: 

I cruised New England and Maine with my wife (a novice sailor) and our daughter (2 at the time) for 3-4 months and had a wonderful time. But I heard to same requests from my wife. She simply did not want our daughter doing a header in the cabin. Quite understandable. 

I would offer this suggestion: Try putting one or even two reefs in the mainsail and then reducing the area of the jib by unfurling only a small portion. This will reduce heeling significantly. You can also spill air from the main by letting out the traveler. But you really need both sails to maintain balance and power. Unfortunately, these measures will reduce heeling and with it speed. But if you are not in a hurry your wife will be grateful. I seem to remember motoring an awful lot in Maine anyway so perhaps your problems will solve themself!

Slightly off topic but perhaps helpful: We put in jacklines and netting on the lifelines. We anchored her to the lifeline through the back of her life jacket with a sail tie or nylon leash. She absolutely loved the freedom and became quite agile at moving around the decks! We were actually able to relax a bit at anchor while she occupied herself without worrying about her getting wet. 
We also found that we could get her to wear the ski jacket type PDF for much longer than the traditional bulky type you see for kids. It's a trade-off not having the head floatation. But we felt that just getting her to wear it without fussing was a victory. 
The "leash" as we called it also came in handy on the docks and in the dinghy. We simply hooked it around our wrists and let her walk or climb to the front of the dinghy.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Great e-mails. I think the reefed main and a small jib makes a lot of sense. My wife and kids really enjoy being on the water. It is mostly the fact that my wife can't handle 2 kids in a tilted cockpit. Any competant, fun loving adults who want to sail and mind a two year old, please feel free to call. We sail out of Falmouth, Maine.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I would emphasize to your wife, the risks of a knockdown if you are attempting to sail upwind on the Genoa alone. 

Sailing with vastly reduced sails, and making sure the kids are wearing PFDs, harnesses and tethers are both probably prudent measures. Adding lifeline netting is also probably a very good idea. 

I hope your boat has fairly high coamings around the cockpit as well. Some boats have an almost completely open aft end to the cockpit, which I think would be very disturbing to your wife. 

A good automatic inflatable PFD is probably the way to go for your wife, as they are far more comfortable than the bulkier foam-filled PFDs. 

It also might still be a good idea to have your wife take a sailing course that discusses sailing theory a bit. Then she will have a better understanding of how the boats work, and why... that should make it a bit easier for her to accept that heeling is a natural part of sailing a monohull.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Sabre 28s have a relatively low cockpit with good coamings and lifelines. Our dockmate has one and it sure seems much easier to adjust to for newbies compared to our Nauticat, which has a 5'-6" aft-helm freeboard, due to a full height aft cabin.

My wife was a new sailor last season and became very anxious when heeling under full sail. Our tall masted ketch rig carries a lot of sail for a 33 ft motorsailer and actually sails very well on sail only. The motion is amplified however, due to the higher aft helm/cockpit. I have learned to ease out the main sheet & traveler on both main & mizzen, resulting in less heeling but acceptable speeds (for my wife anyway). 

As was said, in time, she and the kids will become comfortable with heeling - once confidence in the boat's physics and their captain increases. My wife was hysterical in winds over 15 knots during the first season, but now loves to sail any chance we get.


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## chrondi (Mar 24, 2004)

*Afraid of heeling?*

Heeling is as natural for a sailing boat as wind forces acting on the sails to keep the vessel going. Then, how on earth can you expect to obtain balance if you deny the boat a natural tendency at all costs? While the mainsail makes the boat luff up, the headsail cause it to bear away and thus some balance is achieved. When the yacht carries too much canvas and it appears overwhelmed, *you just have to reef*. Moreover, you let the mainsail sheet car go a liittle to leeward or you avoid a direction much to windward. In any case, you don't disturb balance. Under light wind force conditions you are allowed to sail with either of your two sails without much effect on your boat behaviour, but with force 5+ winds you better observe well established practices!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Jack?
"My wife is convinced that in order to minimize healing and to sail "safely" we should only sail with the headsail (135% genoa). " 
Meaning no offense, but your wife obviously knows nothing about boats or sailing and just as obviously is terrified of sailing. There's nothing wrong with that, we all started by knowing nothing and she's just concerned about the safety of her family.
So I would suggest that the first thing you need to do, is to send HER (or both of you<G>) off to something like Womenship, a women-only sailing school in Annapolis, or a similar "ladies it is just us" class.
The Sabre28 is a good boat. Matter of fact, Sabre might recommend something closer to you, they're outstanding folks. But your wife is operating out of FEAR not FACT and that's something that needs to be corrected immediately. Both for safety and for harmony.

Many boats in that size range will be able to carry a 150 and mainsail, both full, up to around 14-15 knots without reefing. If you trim wrong, sure, you may be heeling way more than you should. But then again, on a small boat it is NORMAL to walk on the walls, so to speak, and if that's what is bugging your wife, she needs a chance to come to grips with it. (She may simply not have faith in your sailing skills or experience, or she may simply have seen Poseidon Adventure once too often<G>)
If you ring up the folks at Sabre I *know* they will be glad to speak with you. They can tell you exactly how soon you should be reefing, and how much sail to carry in what winds. Typically around 15 knots you can be reefing down one reef line in the main and rolling the furler up to 130 and you'll flatten out the boat without losing any speed. And by 20 knots you'll need to have one reef line, maybe two, in the main and roll the genny down to 100%. But the exact speeds will vary with the boat, and I don't know yours. The folks at Sabre certainly do. If there's any way you can take your wife there for a VISIT...that might be the best way to get started of all.

Mesh lifelines are a "must have" if the kids will be on deck, as are comfortable PFDs for everyone. I've made a habit of keeping mine ashore, so it comes out of the car with me and I set the example that it gets put on BEFORE getting in the launch, and stays on until we're back. Kids complain less when they are just imitating what the big folks do, and the comfort level (mental and physical) is a big thing to work on. For the wife and kids to be comfortable about going in the water, for their PFDs to be comfortable too.
The big thing is, don't let it snowball into a fight, go for the confidence and the facts and the rest will smooth out. (And if she's really just terrified of the water...welll...sometimes that happens too.)


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

One other thing... in stronger winds, you should be doing everything you can to depower the sails, before you start reefing—backstay tension, more tension on the cunningham, halyard, outhaul, adjusting sheeting fairleads for the genoa—will all help to depower the sails and reduce the amount of heel.

Giving your wife a solid education and foundation in sailing theory and technique should allow her to understand why the boat acts the way it does, and accept that the behavior of the boat is normal and safe. It is also a good idea to have her learn at least the fundamentals of sailing, just in case you four are out and anything should happen to you. 

Last year there was a sailor lost while sailing with his son. His son did not have the knowledge of how to use the VHF or to do a man-overboard recovery, and the sailor and his boat were lost. The son was eventually rescued by the USCG IIRC.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

JackRent said:


> I guess I am soliciting responses to best explain the whole situation to my wife.


Don't explain. Get her to run the boat herself in light airs and then progressively stronger stuff. She'll get a sense of the difference between "eager" and "dangerously over-canvassed". Also, nothing beats spilling the main to get a boat upright again.

Practice leads to mastery, and both trump fear.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Ignorance causes the fear... education and experience can cure it... 

All your wife sees is the boat tipping over...without the knowledge of why it is tipping, and why the tipping is normal and safe—all she can do is panic. 

I highly recommend that she get some foundation in sailing–not from you, but from an accredited sailing school. Given her current beliefs, it is unlikely that you'll be able to explain this in a way she can accept and believe. This is not an insult, but a statement of the way things probably are.


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## KAYAKDAN (Jun 21, 2005)

I would strongly agree that a class like ASA 101(Basic Keelboat) would be an asset. If your wife understands how sailing works,she may have a higher comfort level,and can be a valuable asset if things go wrong.
As to being comfortable heeling,my wife(she took ASA 101,and I did it with her)was really nervous the first few times the boat really heeled. I gave her control of the mainsheet,and told her to haul in to her comfort level. She controlled the heeling and got very easy with it in no time. We were out recently in Greenwich Bay with the wind blowing hard,boat heeled to 25-30,and she's sitting on the windward,feet braced,totally relaxed!


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## capn_dave (Feb 17, 2000)

*Me thinks ya got it all wrong!!!!*

Sailindog did not say his wife was afraid of healing. She was concerned when in the cabin with 2 little children and a strong puff comes the boat suddenly heals without warning, and they being the wife and children go flying across the aformentioned cabin.

When people are below they cannot see what is happening, I tell them we gotta puff and they know that the boat will suddenly heal. It's a little prewarning. Another thing I do is dump the main out at the same time.

It also helps to do this if someone happens to be in the galley making somthing to eat. When I find a galley slave I like to keep em.

Fair Winds

Cap'n Dave


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Well, sailing under the genoa alone is a good way to end up in trouble. It will tend to leave the boat with lee helm and could make things very dangerous. Have a boat that is difficult to control because you don't have the right sails up, is probably a greater danger than having the boat heel a bit. 

The children should be someplace with some degree of safety...wandering around the main cabin is probably not such a good idea, at least until they are old enough to take a little responsibility for themselves. 

I agree that shouting out a warning to the galley slave and others below is a good idea... but a two-year-old is not going to be able to react intelligently, and being a two-year-old, needs to have some precautions taken to protect them. That's why most of my friends with little ones have padding on the furniture that is at "skull level" for their little ones. 

A little common sense, and a little education will go a long way to making sure that the two and four year olds get to be three and five.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sailing Dog: You know I love you and I really respect your opinions. But on this one ya got it all wrong. Have you sailed with kids? Getting them to sit still or be in a safe plan works great on paper not in the real world. They are squirrels for God's sakes! lol.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I never really expected them to sit still—even I am not that unrealistic, having two nephews (3 & 5)...but they are perfectly capable of following basic rules to help keep them safe. A lot of it depends on the design and layout of the boat.

One of my friends used a portable playpen to keep their two year old in a safe place on their sailboat.


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