# Freedom or a Big Mistake?



## sailforlife (Sep 14, 2016)

How many of you have sold your home and all possessions to buy and live on a boat? Are you glad you did? 

:2 boat::2 boat::captain::captain:


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

A mistake is selling the home and possessions before knowing for certain you'll enjoy living on a boat.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

sailforlife said:


> How many of you have sold your home and all possessions to buy and live on a boat? Are you glad you did?


Yes &#8230; this is what we've done. Haven't had a land house for over three years now. It's part of what has given us the freedom to live the life we currently have.

A house is a very expensive thing to have, both financial and emotionally. Not having one has certainly given us more freedom. But other people find more freedom in renting their house out. No one right answer.

But I agree with 4arch; don't do it till you have actually lived on your boat for quite some time. We spent over a decade doing extended (multiple months) cruising before saying goodbye to the house.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Sold my first house and most of my furniture in 2011 and moved onto my boat until 2015, then sold the boat and used the money to buy another house and a smaller boat. Kept a bunch of stuff I didnt sell in a 10x15 storage locker.

It was awesome. Lots of fun. I really enjoyed living on the boat. Now, I really enjoy living in a house in the country and sailing my little boat (s).

I lost very little money on the house boat house thing because I owned a boat that had already done most of its devaluating. I kept working, self employed/freelance while I lived on the boat, so I didnt really go too far, but I still really enjoyed it.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

We are actually in the process of building a house (currently renting). Our reality is live on the boat for 8 m then on land for 4 with Xmas on land. We are of an age where we will need to swallow the anchor in the foreseeable future. Wife is of the opinion she will live the cruising life as long as she has a home to return to. We both have many things we’ve collected or inherited that we don’t want to sell. The house we are building is geothermal and solar so costs in our absence are low. It’s designed to serve us for the rest of our lives. 
I’ve been a landlord. It’s a total PIA and another worry to enslave you. Storage is also a worry and not cheap. In the market we live housing costs will just go up so not much money is saved by not building now even with the space underutilized. 
There’s no right to this decision except it must be a truly mutual decision.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Every year we meet maybe half a dozen couples who went all in and sold the house, etc but found that cruising just wasn't right for them. We meet a few dozen who did it and enjoy the cruising and a whole bunch of 'commuter cruisers' who have it both ways, spending summers at "home" and winters sailing.
From what we understand, it can be pretty financially devastating to sell all, buy and outfit a boat, then try to recoup that expenditure 6 months to a year later to go back to their former lives. With that in mind, we offered a charter called 'the cruising experience' but found that absolutely no one seemed interested in trying cruising before leaping in, so after 3 years, we dropped it.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

capta said:


> Every year we meet maybe half a dozen couples who went all in and sold the house, etc but found that cruising just wasn't right for them. We meet a few dozen who did it and enjoy the cruising and a whole bunch of 'commuter cruisers' who have it both ways, spending summers at "home" and winters sailing.
> From what we understand, it can be pretty financially devastating to sell all, buy and outfit a boat, then try to recoup that expenditure 6 months to a year later to go back to their former lives. With that in mind, we offered a charter called 'the cruising experience' but found that absolutely no one seemed interested in trying cruising before leaping in, so after 3 years, we dropped it.


I think your idea/program is a good one. 
Prob needs some publicity and support.
Just makes sense...hard education with a true life vacay


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

I thought we wanted to, spent 13 weeks aboard one summer, about week 11 I was ready to get off. Glad we ran the experiment.

I have other friends that have lived aboard for 13 years and more. 

Definitely do the experiment before you do something that's hard to reverse. There's no right answer, just a right answer for you.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

Did it in 1994. Only one regret ...... should have done it sooner


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

After owning my boat and upgrading her over 6 years I decided to take a sabbatical at least... and gave up my loft and gave away most of the contents and my clothing and possessions. I stored some valuables with my brother. I figured I always had the option to "start again"... but with more experience than when I first started. A house is usually a much more involved commitment than a loft... which I acquired for little and on return was unable to afford it. But I did return after 4 great years, and did start over again a wiser man with a boat and no desire to on property and possessions... or a few of the latter as possible. Acquiring store is a common American affliction.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

No doubt you can be owned by your processions. Still, I’d be curious as to the actual perecentages. Commuter cruisers, long term live aboards, long term cruisers, and those on a defined sabbatical. They are really very different lifestyles. 
Initially I wanted to sell the whole ball of wax, jump on the boat and go RTW. (Long term cruising) Then reality set in. After 2 years realized I was quite happy with wintering in the Caribbean and summer in New England. (Commuter cruising) which allows a land sabbatical to pursue other interests. After the last house is built intend to do the 2 year tour of Europe via the northern route. Full time sailing sabbatical (defined sabbatical). Fortunately past the point we stuck in one locale or to a daily grind due to work so haven’t been long term live aboards but have friends for whom the calculus is such this is a great lifestyle aimed at full time cruising in their future. 
Point being is that freedom is an internal state of mind. You have external limitations, and obligations. But with the internal mindset that you are free to make decisions that hopefully will meet your obligations but also actuate your dreams you muddle along. Mistakes I see are due to being driven by other people’s preconceptions or by a list of goals etched in stone with no flexibility to deal with your changing realities.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

The internet seems to have strong perceptions about what living on a boat is supposed to mean, which I havent encountered in real life. As mentioned above, you just do what suits your preferences, no need to sell everything and do a circumnavigation if thats not what you want, if it isnt your goal, or if it isnt acheivable. Or if it is, then go for it, but keep in mind, even circumnavigations come to an end for most.

When I moved onto my boat in 2011, my goal was to move onto my boat. I had no desire to escape my family, freinds or climate. I was only going to stay on board for the summer at first, but enjoyed it so much, ended up staying on board for several years until something else came up and it was no longer practical. 

I am on a 1 year sabatical right now, started in July. There is no doubt I am going back to work, at my old position with my old co workers at my old job (which I quite enjoy). 

However, I havent sold the house and I am not on the boat full time. We have completed several multi week trips in different locations, trailer sailer so we can do that pretty easily. All in Canada, cant honestly think of anywhere I would rather be during the warmer months. Currently on a tour of Eastern Canada; Saguanay, Gaspe, Northumberland Straight and maybe be Bras D'Ors Lake Nova Scotia.

Still havent decided what we are doing for the winter, been back and forth between renting a beach house on Bastimentos Panama and trailering our boat down to the Keys again. Again, our choice of boats gives us that flexibility to decide.

In between our trips, we go home to our house to visit and engage in other hobbies.

My point is, there are no rules, nothing needs to be a one way trip. Just do whatever you want/can manage and dont worry about the perceptions, especially of strangers.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I think it's feasible to sell and go try, if you keep the principal from your house well protected to return to shore. Of course, if you need to replace a mortgage and a job to quality for it, that's another risk. Often, I see the folks use the equity from their home to fund their cruising, which burns the bridge. I frequently wonder what their plan is for their golden years, when expenses can get very high and there is little way to replace significant income. 

While there are exceptions for folks who were lucky enough to time it right, a house is rarely a great investment. The math is usually done on the increased value of the home and ignores taxes and maintenance. Worse, when in a house, you are going to spend more on large screen TVs, new decor, etc, etc, that I've never seen anyone factor into their return. The net impact of home ownership is an economic driver, not a good savings/investment vehicle. For that matter, I could store everything I own in a climate controlled facility for less than my real estate taxes. 

My real plan is to significantly downsize, then cruise for as much of the year or as long as I desire. Thankfully, I've moved so many times (my record is 4 times in 3 years) that I don't have an overly strong emotion bond to my current home. A condo, preferrably a 55+ community, with limited maintenance is plan A. Honestly, I could see an apartment, in the right community being even better, especially in an urban area, where everything was within walking distance.


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## dwedeking (Jan 28, 2007)

Moved onto the boat in 2016. Had to move back on land for a couple months when I sold the old boat last year (trawler crashed into it) and hadn't moved the "new-to-me" boat up here yet. Living on land sucks, no gentle waves to rock you to sleep, no dolphins swimming through your backyard, and too many people.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

Don't think you're going to get a representative sample of responses that say, "We did it and it was a big mistake."

You can see from posting here and elsewhere that there are a lot of folks who decide to do this with very little planning, and very little experience living on a boat. They just go out and do it.

Sometimes that works out well. Good for them. The times when it doesn't, though, I strongly suspect that they simply return to life on land and leave the sailing life completely behind. Meaning that they aren't going to be participating on a forum like this one. The few exceptions would be those who realize the mistake early enough to reverse it, but still continue to enjoy sailing without living aboard full-time.

So, you're never going to get a response from that great, unknown number of folks who tried it, hated it, turned their back on it, and aren't interested in going to sea again.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

denverd0n said:


> Don't think you're going to get a representative sample of responses that say, "We did it and it was a big mistake."...So, you're never going to get a response from that great, unknown number of folks who tried it, hated it, turned their back on it, and aren't interested in going to sea again.


I think this is very true. Folks like me who have done the no-house thing, and are still here, are going to be happy. If I fail (and that is always a possibility), or transition to something else (which is likely) then I will likely disappear from these forums.

But I like the general theme here that is emerging from all the posters: there is no one right answer for everyone. Only YOU can learn what is right for you. Which is why the best advice here is to do some serious cruising BEFORE you make any big decisions.

Only you can know what's right for you.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

4arch said:


> A mistake is selling the home and possessions before knowing for certain you'll enjoy living on a boat.


If one's house location and type was driven by circumstances (job, kids, business, etc), and continuing to live there isn't ideal after those circumstances no longer apply, then there is really no downside to selling and taking a flyer at doing something else like moving onto a boat and trying out cruising. Many possessions fall under this also, and most possessions are easily regained - often better than the ones sold (new TV, furniture, etc).



capta said:


> With that in mind, we offered a charter called 'the cruising experience' but found that absolutely no one seemed interested in trying cruising before leaping in, so after 3 years, we dropped it.


That doesn't surprise me for several reasons, but I don't think people in general would have found this type of charter successful in truly understanding what "cruising" is about. The reason is that "cruising" means so many different things, places, and experiences to different people. For those that want to know what cruising is like in the Eastern Caribe, then maybe your idea would have been helpful. But I bet it wouldn't have shed any light for Mike or Arcb, for example. Also, the meaning and experience of "cruising" changes significantly as time goes by in a cruising adventure - speaking for us, the first 2yrs were completely different than our time after that.



outbound said:


> Still, I'd be curious as to the actual perecentages. Commuter cruisers, long term live aboards, long term cruisers, and those on a defined sabbatical.


Just taking a wild guestimate from only my personal experiences with people we have met out cruising over the past 10yrs, I would break it down as: Long Term Cruising = 30%, Defined Sabbatical = 20%, Commuter Cruising = 50%.



Minnewaska said:


> Often, I see the folks use the equity from their home to fund their cruising, which burns the bridge. I frequently wonder what their plan is for their golden years, when expenses can get very high and there is little way to replace significant income.


Many people use the equity from their home to fund their cruising, and their plan for their golden years is retirement savings and programs like 401K, pension, medicare, and social security (in the US). Non-US cruisers have similar safety nets for retirement, like pensions and free healthcare.

Mark


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

colemj said:


> If one's house location and type was driven by circumstances (job, kids, business, etc), and continuing to live there isn't ideal after those circumstances no longer apply, then there is really no downside to selling and taking a flyer at doing something else like moving onto a boat and trying out cruising.


That may work for some but for many people the stress and emotional upheaval of selling a house, disposing of its contents, leaving a community, shopping for a boat, buying a boat, prepping the boat for cruising, planning the cruise, moving aboard, and finally casting off the docklines all in rapid fire would be so draining as to potentially jeopardize their adjustment to and enjoyment of life aboard.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

first of all, a boat is not your magical escape from your internal reality, which is what most expect it to become. 
as i was never able to afford a house to own, i found renting a slip for my own home, a boat, was much more financially feasable. okay... 1990 i bought and moved into my first boat. thankfully i didnot have the alleged dream that most find is the reason for their failure. hoping one can escape from internal issues is no reason for purchase of a boat or anything else. 
so my transition, in 1990, was not into a dream world made up of wishes and hopes, but on the reality that residing in a marina on a boat is much less pricey than living in a 1000 usd monthly 2 bedroom apartment, which in 1990 was a lot of dough for rent. has only risen since then. i worked within my career while residing on board and progressed through many changes in boats i owned until i came err stumbled upon this formosa, all the while, working at my career, intensive care and emergency and pacu rn. .... there were no how to books or other sillinesses to follow..one needed to do it on ones own. funny how that works. 

if you are not into this lifestyle , you wont know it until you have sold all and run away from self only to find you aint found that magic you counted on being in front of you like a carrot for a mule. 
guess what.... we are all self made. we all have our inner issues which will not dissipate with a material object. you need to know self better in this lifestyle than on land in alleged normal circumstances. this is not a situation conducive to running away from your inner issues. that is a recipe for failure. 
as i didnot run away from, but went into with eyes wide open having sailed since age 7, i found a successful and pleasant lifestyle i enjoy complete with the hard work requirement and isolation.
freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.....


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I like reading the posts on the Inteview with a Cruiser website. I think it's creator posts here, but I can't put a name to it. Over time, my recollection is the the vast majority eventually return to land, after a handful of years. Not necessarily disillusioned, just done. I think most will need an escape route.

https://interviewwithacruiser.blogspot.com


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

First few years slept on the boat maybe 70-80% of the time. Sailed back and forth so not really a commuter. Then took a winter off with the boat on the hard. Found I really missed the boat but have enjoyed fresh water fly fishing and rowing on ponds. Now figuring to do windwards over the winter but leave the boat in Grenada for hurricane season and not do the passage. Every year has been a totally different experience. Think that’s good. That’s how you stay engaged in life and grow. Others may find that too chaotic and stressful. View money, boats, cars, bikes, houses as just vehicles to create opportunities for different experiences. None define who I am or what I do. Similarly find even among the cruising community the same thing. Those who don’t care a rodents behind what boat you’re on or what you did but rather in the existential sense are living an authentic life. And the folks who are posing. What the construct is varies-macho, ego, escape, whatever.
Think whatever you do if it’s to achieve an authentic life it’s freedom. If not ultimately it’s a big mistake.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

sailforlife said:


> How many of you have sold your home and all possessions to buy and live on a boat? Are you glad you did?
> 
> :2 boat::2 boat::captain::captain:


I did. Its been 2 years and was an excellent decision.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

4arch said:


> A mistake is selling the home and possessions before knowing for certain you'll enjoy living on a boat.


why? if you are wrong you can get new "stuff"


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

4arch said:


> That may work for some but for many people the stress and emotional upheaval of selling a house, disposing of its contents, leaving a community, shopping for a boat, buying a boat, prepping the boat for cruising, planning the cruise, moving aboard, and finally casting off the docklines all in rapid fire would be so draining as to potentially jeopardize their adjustment to and enjoyment of life aboard.


Done in the order you suggest, I agree. Done slightly differently makes a world of difference.

I haven't met anyone yet who sold everything, bought a boat, prepped it for cruising, and then took off without having some sort of managed plan beforehand.

I have met several who, after their plan was implemented, decided the life wasn't for them in a short time and moved onto other types of adventure. None of them were financially ruined or returned to a lower standard of living than they planned.

I guess it is possible to jump in without any prior thought or planning and get damaged in the process - it is just that I haven't met anyone yet who has done so. I suspect that anyone fitting this description would suffer regardless of what they choose to do with their life after retirement - including staying in their existing home.

Mark


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Don0190 said:


> I did. Its been 2 years and was an excellent decision.


I agree. Your decision has provided us with much fodder here...

Excellent decision. :grin

Mark


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Minnewaska said:


> I like reading the posts on the Inteview with a Cruiser website. I think it's creator posts here, but I can't put a name to it. Over time, my recollection is the the vast majority eventually return to land, after a handful of years. Not necessarily disillusioned, just done. I think most will need an escape route.
> 
> https://interviewwithacruiser.blogspot.com


Almost as certain as death and taxes is the fact that almost everyone cruising will need to return to land at some point. Almost everyone I know does so before they are forced to - and some inadvertently become "defined sabbaticals" (using outbound's definitions) in their choice.

Many, many, are just done with it after a time, like you point out. Not disillusioned, but ready to do something else.

However, I don't think an escape route is necessarily needed. When the time comes, one can simply determine what else they would rather do, and go do it instead of cruising. Within reason, of course, and more in line with the same decision one would make if they were just sitting in their home and became done with that.

I am speaking about people who approached retirement and chose to go cruising (which is what I think is the thesis of this thread). My assumption is that they made financial and economic plans in choosing to retire and cruise, and fulfilling these did not close shut all other avenues in life. There are, of course, places around the world full of people who are living hand to mouth on a boat without many opportunities to do differently. I view that these people would probably be in a similar situation on or off a boat, so the boat isn't significant to this.

Mark


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Another maybe obsolete thought in this throw away age. I have inherited various things from my parents and sib. I also have things my wife and I collected together. I have antique tools, watches, clocks, books, fishing equipment, furniture, art and sundry others things which are precious to my wife and I. I want to pass these things along to our descendants but enjoy their history and beauty when I’m on land so keep them for now. I don’t need the money now but they also represent a financial reserve if ultimately necessary. I sit writing this with a 200 year old tall clock facing me sitting on a 100 year old chair at a 80 year old desk. My youngest is starting to understand the beauty of these objects. My oldest has no interest but may in the future. Heated, secure storage is expensive. Currently paying ~$200/m to store less valuable objects. 
Whether it’s monetary, emotional or memory value once you sell it it’s gone. 
We had a home we restored and made ours. Both money, time and sweat went in to it. Selling it was hard. I don’t mean just the logistics of downsizing and moving. Rather it was like when a loved dog dies. Something that was always there in the background is now gone. My kids have been married for awhile and are now having kids. But they tell me it hurt when I sold “their” house.
This may all sound trivial and too sentimental. I don’t miss chasing the maintenance of that house for a second but I do miss that house.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

colemj said:


> I agree. Your decision has provided us with much fodder here...
> 
> Excellent decision. :grin
> 
> Mark


I'm acturally surprised at how little you guys are able to raise to the challenge. :ship-captain:


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

outbound said:


> Another maybe obsolete thought in this throw away age. I have inherited various things from my parents and sib. I also have things my wife and I collected together. I have antique tools, watches, clocks, books, fishing equipment, furniture, art and sundry others things which are precious to my wife and I. I want to pass these things along to our descendants but enjoy their history and beauty when I'm on land so keep them for now. ...


Things, possessions, items &#8230; I find that the older I get, the less attached I become to anything that doesn't have a function. It's not that I don't appreciate the aesthetic or beauty of meaningful items - they just don't have much hold on me.

I want to make it clear that I'm not, in any way, saying my way is better than yours. Not at all. It just shows the range of cruisers, and that it's all very personal


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

outbound said:


> Another maybe obsolete thought in this throw away age. I have inherited various things from my parents and sib. I also have things my wife and I collected together. I have antique tools, watches, clocks, books, fishing equipment, furniture, art and sundry others things which are precious to my wife and I. I want to pass these things along to our descendants but enjoy their history and beauty when I'm on land so keep them for now. I don't need the money now but they also represent a financial reserve if ultimately necessary. I sit writing this with a 200 year old tall clock facing me sitting on a 100 year old chair at a 80 year old desk. My youngest is starting to understand the beauty of these objects. My oldest has no interest but may in the future. Heated, secure storage is expensive. Currently paying ~$200/m to store less valuable objects.
> Whether it's monetary, emotional or memory value once you sell it it's gone.
> We had a home we restored and made ours. Both money, time and sweat went in to it. Selling it was hard. I don't mean just the logistics of downsizing and moving. Rather it was like when a loved dog dies. Something that was always there in the background is now gone. My kids have been married for awhile and are now having kids. But they tell me it hurt when I sold "their" house.
> This may all sound trivial and too sentimental. I don't miss chasing the maintenance of that house for a second but I do miss that house.


I have just been put into the unfortunate, but inevitable, position of having an estate dumped into my lap to unravel. Advice I can give so far in this experience, as it relates to your post above, is:
1. You won't be taking it with you.
2. If you are not actively using something, get rid of it before it becomes someone's albatross - even if it is sentimental to you, but unusable.
3. If it is something you plan to give to heirs, give it to them now. If they don't want it, get rid of it.
4. Expensive things are not worth the money you think they are, nor do the markets exist for them that you think do.
5. Sentimentality looks down-right silly and counter-productive from a distance or once-removed.
6. Your entire "life" in terms of possessions and sentimentals will be disposed of in an instance leaving little trace of you in them.

If you actively enjoy your old furniture and stuff in life, then that is good - keep it now just for that. Don't project your love or appreciation of any possession onto anyone else - let them come to that as/if they will. If you have stuff in storage, get rid of it regardless. Or call your children in and have them take anything they want before you throw it away. You aren't using/enjoying it, and it will become someone else's burden.

Mark


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Don0190 said:


> I'm acturally surprised at how little you guys are able to raise to the challenge. :ship-captain:


There are a few reasons for that: we are sensitive to how fragile you are; it is so easy that we wait for the more challenging shots; it takes us so much time to work through your grammar and spelling... :wink

Mark


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

That was uncalled for. What a ********* you are. There was no reason to hurt my feelings uke


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Gave you a reason to drink tonight... 

Mark


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## petemcewen (May 30, 2018)

It's a very attractive idea. However,one must plan for old age. When I bought my house in Sheffield UK I had to factor in such things as health care-thank God for the NHS. Similarly with living on a boat. You have to be able to shop. There will come a point when you may no longer be able to drive.Then there's your partner to consider. My partner is being treated for cancer-so the treatment facilities have to be close at hand.
We go sailing as often as we can-and that is threapy in itself.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Mark
Auctioned off my dads clock collection (except for a few pieces I wanted to keep). It bought my boat. He kept meticulous records. Purchase price, restoration costs if any and we generated selling price minus costs of auctioneering and transport was much better than market performance. 

Auctioned off most of my sisters and parents collections of antiques and art. It will cover 1/2 of the cost of building our new house.

They & I have generated more return on investment on our collections than in the market. I have standing offers for the objects still in my possession. They are still accruing value. 

My and their experience is contrary to your supposition.
That’s reality not belief.

We sold our prior house. Including improvements ROI was ~10%. Cost of ownership was a fraction of an equivalent rent or hotel costs for the periods of time we were “home”. That’s including carrying costs for the house. With solar we received quarterly checks for our srecs. Utilities gave us money. No utility costs. Yes, did pay taxes, and maintenance costs in our absence (plowing, security etc.) but still well below total nut if we didn’t own the house.

New house is entirely self sufficient. Geothermal and solar means no utility costs and sufficient ROI due to decreased electric bill in our absence that tax bill is significantly decreased. Cost of ownership quite low and my children’s family get use in a lovely vacation spot regardless if we’re there or not. 

Mark it’s a bit presumptuous to judge others decisions in the absence of knowing their particular situation. The devil is in the details. Everyone’s details are different. So everyone needs to figure it out for themselves. Generic statements don’t apply. They can be viewed as disrespectful and unhelpful.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The biggest financial threat at old age in the US, isn't health care itself. The US has universal health care for those over 65 (although it isn't entirely free). It's the potential need for constant care, home care or similar. You could be institutionalized in a state facility at no cost, once you've run out of all money, but they ain't great.

The graduated care facility that my mother-in-law went to cost about $300k to buy in, which you lose, and then roughly $3k per month in expenses. These numbers will obviously inflate over time. She checked in at 82 and lived to 97. It was not a top of the line facility, but above average and much better than a state sponsored place.

Morbidly, some are fortunate enough to suddenly die in their sleep before needing expensive care like this. On the bright side, if you consider it so, you are much more likely to need care, than you are to just die. For that matter, you are multiple times more likely to become disabled than you are to die. Disability is the biggest financial problem and, tragically, the most likely event. You need acute care, but only until rehabilitated, then you no longer qualify for a long term state facility. If it eats every penny you have, now what....... welfare, food stamps and low income housing. The state will provide, but I suspect one's standard of living plummets.

Maybe folks who check out young have saved enough for this event, as well as their cruising. It's just doesn't always read that way to me. Many speak of how long they can cruise, by spending everything they have: home equity, retirement savings, etc.

Some suggest spending their golden years in a country with better social benefits. I'll leave out discussing the ethics of taking advantage of a benefit from a country in which one never paid significant income, real estate or VAT taxes that fund those benefits. The real issue is how many are willing to live that far away from family and friends. I often wonder if RTW cruisers have much home country family.

Finally, what standard of living do you want at 80 years old. Do you want to be able to hop on a plane and visit family at will, or do you want to be counting one's last penny to buy groceries. 30 years of inflation can destroy the purchasing power of savings.

The truth is, one is not going to be left on the street, if they are indigent in their old age. However, the level of care and standard of living is not going to be the same as those that saved to pay for it and the odds are, the majority of us will be faced with this reality.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

outbound said:


> .....my children's family get use in a lovely vacation spot regardless if we're there or not. .......


It's funny you mention this. It's come up as a rationalization for us to buy our retirement condo now and hold it until we need it. I say rationalization, because it certainly isn't a lower cost idea. I'm sure you're not renting it to family and neither would I. I absolutely do not want a house in retirement or while cruising for months at a time. I don't want to deal with snow plowing, exterior issues, or anything for that matter. I want to turn the lock, walk away and send a monthly HOA check.

Unfortunately, the market it up so high right now, I easily talk myself out of it. Buy during the correction. That's my next move........


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I am curious to hear from the OP, got the impression he was somewhat younger than typical retirement age. I cant find them, but I think thete were a couple of threads on making money while cruising and generating a charter income.

Dont know the answer to making money while long term cruising, unless you do something like Capta.

Making money while simply living aboard is pretty straight forward. I just ran a small business and used my boat as home office, beleive a couple other posters have done the same. Or, alternatively, you could work for an employer in a coastal area.

Sabbatical, you can either save for or take a defined leave of absence if you work in certain industries.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

I'm not sure exactly what it was I wrote that so offended you, but that wasn't the intention. Perhaps you do plan to take your stuff with you when you leave this earth? 

I didn't address your housing situation at all, so don't understand your focus on that, nor what it means in regard to this thread. 

You seemed to skip my perspective that if you are actually enjoying objects, then definitely keep them around just for that reason alone. Enjoyment in life is valid enough regardless of the dry logic or reason otherwise.

Investment-grade art, etc is a different thing than what I was addressing as "expensive things". I was addressing those things that most people possess that they value as having some intrinsic worth more than they paid for it. These are not things that are specifically insured, protected, or treated as investments - think most good jewelry, good art, etc. The reality is that these more common types of stuff do not have the value, nor markets, that people think they do. Or at least are not as liquid as one thinks. If you don't believe me, go get a good piece of jewelry appraised, then try to quickly sell it at that price. To get much worth out of these types of things, people need to spend a lot of time and effort finding the right buyers in a small market. When one dies, the people handling one's estate simply can't or won't spend that time and effort, and the items will go for fire sale prices just to get rid of them, or they will pay other people a great percentage of the value as commissions to work the markets for them. 

An example is one I am living right now - valuable art and jewelry (not Van Gogh's and Hope Diamonds, but significant money still) that has a small market, but a difficult one to extract full value from. To keep from spending a year or more slowly working the markets, a dealer is taking that job on at a high commission rate. It will take them over a year to move the items. If these were mine originally, and I was using them as investments, I would take the time to sell them as needed. However, I wouldn't expect the heirs of my estate to do anything differently than what I am doing now.

Storage lockers full of stuff that hasn't been interacted with for years will get dumped onto somebody eventually. I merely suggested that it was a good idea to get those somebodies together and see if they actually want any of it. If so, then have them take care of it. If not, why keep it around?

I'm sorry you found something I wrote offensive. I was trying to provide a helpful perspective from personal experience handling a stage of someone's life you haven't reached yet. I don't care what you actually do, so feel free to ignore or take offense at what you wish - I'm done with this now.

Mark


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Minnewaska said:


> The US has universal health care for those over 65 (although it isn't entirely free).


This statement is true in general, but not universally. There are many, many common and expensive healthcare issues that aren't covered by medicare, and send some people toward the poor house just staying alive with a decent quality of life.



Minnewaska said:


> Morbidly, some are fortunate enough to suddenly die in their sleep before needing expensive care like this.


It's not morbid - dying with one's mental and physical attributes reasonably intact is the greatest blessing one can hope for. Something to celebrate when it happens.



Minnewaska said:


> Maybe folks who check out young have saved enough for this event, as well as their cruising. It's just doesn't always read that way to me. Many speak of how long they can cruise, by spending everything they have: home equity, retirement savings, etc.
> .......
> Finally, what standard of living do you want at 80 years old. Do you want to be able to hop on a plane and visit family at will, or do you want to be counting one's last penny to buy groceries. 30 years of inflation can destroy the purchasing power of savings.
> ........
> The truth is, one is not going to be left on the street, if they are indigent in their old age. However, the level of care and standard of living is not going to be the same as those that saved to pay for it and the odds are, the majority of us will be faced with this reality.


We struggle with answering this question all the time in our financial planning (we checked out young). The tricky part is that it is just such a wide-open variable with many unknowns. Without gross over-planning and over-saving, it is difficult to get within even an order of magnitude - even when using actuarial estimates.

Having some experience with it, you have greatly understated the level of care and standard of living available facing those that are indigent in old age. It is a disgrace. I would rather die. I know you intentionally phrased it your way to be generous, but I wanted to let people know who may not realize what this is like.

Inflation should not destroy purchasing power unless poor investment planning is involved. People shouldn't be just stuffing their money in their mattresses. It is pretty easy to keep even with inflation.

Mark


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

colemj said:


> Gave you a reason to drink tonight...
> 
> Mark


NOT even close! I can drink a cup of water and forget you just like that! :wink


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## hellsop (Jun 3, 2014)

capta said:


> From what we understand, it can be pretty financially devastating to sell all, buy and outfit a boat, then try to recoup that expenditure 6 months to a year later to go back to their former lives. With that in mind, we offered a charter called 'the cruising experience' but found that absolutely no one seemed interested in trying cruising before leaping in, so after 3 years, we dropped it.


Can never recoup that refit cost, because at least some of it is just going to need to be redone when someone else buys it from you. The number of people that have bought a boat and it just needed provisions to sail off to wherever? Infinitesimal. There's always a refit to some level, and that is part of the "buying" figure, but not the "selling" one.


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## hellsop (Jun 3, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> It's funny you mention this. It's come up as a rationalization for us to buy our retirement condo now and hold it until we need it. I say rationalization, because it certainly isn't a lower cost idea.


To hear the real estate agents talk, it's ALWAYS cheaper to buy now and sell later and that sheer ownership cost always come back out at sale time.. That's why real estate isn't boats.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Never considered selling the house and just moving on to the boat. But, I have lived in both. Enjoy them both too. In years past I thought of Atlantic crossings as I got older those urges passed. Decided I really did not want to be that uncomfortable as I got older. I also had an idea of taking my boat down to the Virgin Islands Bahamas and Keys for the winter. But, my gal and I did a number of charters in all those locations and I no longer need to fill that itch. Likewise the urge to sail to the Dry Tortugas was fulfilled by chartering a Catamaran to take me there from Key West. No need to spend weeks taking my boat there. 
I now enjoy putting the boat to bed for a few months and looking forward to spring outfitting and also working on projects and plans over the winter as weather permits. My gal has dragged me off to the Maldives on a charters in January for several years now. Which is something I would never be able to do with my boat easily without many months/years of sailing. With a local Muslim crew we have seen things and places that make it hard for places like the BVI to compete with. 
I enjoy the summer in my local waters living on board for most of it. But, still can follow the Kurt Vonnegut quote: "“Unexpected travel suggestions are dancing lessons from God” Like last year when on a whim I left the boat on the mooring jumped on a train to South Carolina to experience the total eclipse. Certainly an awesome memory. Doubt I would have done it had been on my boat in some tropical location. i guess what it all means is sometimes ones dreams change. Certainly mine have but, IMO it is important to embrace the change and not have any regrets. I certainly don't.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

So lived aboard and made a good living (3hoursai for many years; at 68 i was coming down the forestay hand or' hand to the amazement of belles on deck. At 70 I'm dead in a train station in Bangkok on my way to charter a vessel in North Vietnam. Sh#t happens. Glad I had a duplex and a triplex to fall back to. Not like I'd planned for this but nice to be able to pick my tomatoes as the fall rains set in. BC'n ya.!


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## overthehorizon (Apr 7, 2018)

With world communications so easy these days, emails, IridiumGo, skype, it is easy to manage a rental house from half way around the world. Of course spending the time and resources to get qualified tenants is most important to keeping a rental house while you go off sailing. I certainly like the idea of a tenant waking up to an alarm clock going off to work so they can make all the house payments, tax bills etc., while the owner cruises to far off lands and has a perpetual vacation.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Rented my prior office condo and then sold it. All done while in leewards. Also had residential properties for potential lease. It was extremely difficult to do and safely manage. Need US certified notiary. Need secure communications. Fax,scan,phone and email. VPNs not adequate substitute. .Have put Inmarsat system on the boat last month so it’s available before leaving. It’s expensive. Unless you are willing to totally trust your surrogates somewhat stressful. Perhaps over’s experience is different. Pershaps if you’ve been doing this for awhile before leaving so have long term relationships and know all the ins and outs you’ll be up to speed even if out cruising but found it enough of a hassle gave up on our rental properties and remote real estate deals. Now have fi much simplified life as accountant/ financial and other advisors are integrated into our lifestyle. Don’t think this occurs without prior work. When you are physically present things happen and any mistakes are your own. When you are not things are much more difficult 
If you are moving and haven’t thought this through you need to reestablish secure communications at each new country or have reliable satellite communications with surrogates at the other end. Local banks will not allow you to open bank accounts. Due to laws aimed at preventing drug money from moving around basically forced to deal through surrogates in your home country for major transactions.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

overthehorizon said:


> With world communications so easy these days, emails, IridiumGo, skype, it is easy to manage a rental house from half way around the world.


If that is the case, then I certainly have not discovered your secret over the past 8 years that we've owned a residential rental property, and mine is 2 miles away from my home. We are selling with a closing this week and it will be a great day for us to get out from under the constant stress and headache of being landlords. We've had great tenants, never had 1 who missed a rent payment or caused any damage (very lucky in that regard). But it is still a huge pain in the a$$ to oversee all the different people you need to keep the property maintained and in good condition for your tenants.

I would think that owning a newer condo with a monthly condo fee and most maintenance taken care of within the condo fee, would be much easier. But you're also not going to make much money on that investment, at least not in my area. We will have done very will with about $100k of appreciation in our property over 8 years, plus 8 years of the mortgage being paid down by the rents, and for that we're very happy. But we won't be rushing back into a real estate investment like this any time soon.


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## dmdelorme (Jun 18, 2016)

My plan is to keep the house and buy a retirement boat and use the rent to pad the sailing/ retirement budget.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Although there were some teething problems about renting houses things did stabilize and not sorry property values have nearly tripled while my tennants paid the costs plus. Starting to consider major downsize and reap the benifits of their much appreciated labour. To drift even further, I'd like to trade a 20,000 sq' ? flag lot in Royal Haw Estate for a nice F250 D . I'd intended to build but found Thailand. Land is raw and untouched by lava. Just sayin !


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Well here's another young couple saying Buh Bye to the boat life and are heading back to land. Some interesting observations as they head back home in a car in 16 hours . A trip that took them over a month on the boat:


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Minnewaska said:


> It's funny you mention this. It's come up as a rationalization for us to buy our retirement condo now and hold it until we need it. I say rationalization, because it certainly isn't a lower cost idea. I'm sure you're not renting it to family and neither would I. I absolutely do not want a house in retirement or while cruising for months at a time. I don't want to deal with snow plowing, exterior issues, or anything for that matter. I want to turn the lock, walk away and send a monthly HOA check.
> 
> Unfortunately, the market it up so high right now, I easily talk myself out of it. Buy during the correction. That's my next move........


I think its an interesting thought.But where? That's the question. I knew a guy who had a condo on Lake George that he had been renting for 15 years and by retirement it was almost paid off from the resort renting it out for him. Seemed like a good idea then, and now.

I'd want to have something here in NY, or possible Ct or RI...thought of basing a boat in the south during the winter. Antigua is the fantasy winter base. Charleston more like reality.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Sal why a fantasy? Having priced out both money is about the same. Difference is insurance and how many flights you and yours take. Cost of living for many things is less in the islands. Many high priced things less especially boat yard work. Admittedly given you actually sail the boat more service cycle for maintenance is shorter but isn’t sailing the point of it all.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

If I were to buy a retirement condo that could be used now, by the family, it would be in New England. RI is the most likely target. My family all hails from the Northeast, even through spread throughout it. Travel to the islands always gets immediate enthusiasm, but when push comes to shove, booking airlines, taking extended time, etc, it's so much harder than driving a few hours at the last minute. 

My interest is in just having them around. I'm not sure this is where I want one in the long run, but it's definitely in the hunt.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Minnie are in your footprints. Building house in Plymouth. One kid in NH other MA. Set up up to take care of it self. Have had condos. Not for me. A small house will serve us better.
Friends did an apt.in providence. One kid Boston other NYC.


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## SVGonzo (Jan 19, 2018)

I sold it all. House in the burbs, all the furnishings and junk. Bought a 50 footer and have enjoyed every day since. My wife and kids feel almost the same, haha! Low stress, fun times, sleep like a baby and I always have something to keep me busy. We feel free from the BS. That’s just us. Good luck mate.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

We sold everything and have been 50/50 living in our office and the boat. We are closing our office June 2019 and sailing the Pacific for retirement. Since we started this we have never had any doubts and never looked back.


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## hasher (Aug 12, 2011)

I sold my house and bought a condo. Having a little over a year until retirement, I am joining a sailing club on a local lake. After $1000 initial fee, I can sail unlimited days for less than $200 a month.

I have been weighing buying the cruising boat but I decided a 45 minute ride to the lake will provide more sailing than the 5 hour ride to the ocean or gulf. I am in Atlanta. 

Whether I cruise for a month, a year or a decade, I like the security of my condo downtown to come back to at least initially. I expect this is going to even feel spacious after living on a boat for awhile!


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## Sleddriver (Nov 15, 2015)

I think that those who have figured to have made a mistake are probably not interested in joining ANY sailing forum. So, expect to get only positive feedback.


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## Garamond (Oct 2, 2018)

I think your idea/program is a good one.


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## overthehorizon (Apr 7, 2018)

Looking at the unrealistic makeup on the face of the "Shaggy Seas" girl, it is obvious why she could not make it more than a short spell and a few thousand miles on a sailboat. She is straight out of Gilligan's Island. Minnewasaka...I don't know of any place more fun than the Newport, RI area for the summer months. All the outdoor festivals and events not only in RI but neighboring Massachusetts and up into Providence. I used to have a list of all the summer events then check the internet to see which ones were a must attend. Unfortunately they seem to no longer have the summer concerts at the Spring House on Block Island and the economic downturn ended the annual Fall River Celebrates America....if those events have not returned in my absence, hopefully one day they will. June, July, August, certainly the best months in New England and to explore Narragansett Bay....but then comes fall. I was back in RI last October to check up on rental property and do a boat delivery to St. Maarten. I was happy to leave that cold gloomy place.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I completely agree, Over, New England has absolutely limitless opportunities in season. Still much going on in the offseason too. I got a chuckle at the October gloomy thought. That's still in-season to me! We haul beginning of November. I love when the days are sunny in the 60s, and the night are chilled. While I can see us taking a seriously extended cruise one day (years), for the most part I will be drawn back to New England in the summer. In fact, I consider what I would do in my twilight, when cruising offshore become challenging and I would hope I would remain comfortable to sail in the Bay for many more years after that and maybe limit the ventures outside the Bay to the perfect conditions. We'll see.

I didn't watch the Shaggy vid until now. It says they took off, in part, to learn to sail. That's a pretty serious wildcard. Good on them for doing what they wanted and having the experience. From the way they described their experience, it was obvious the lifestyle wasn't really for them. I enjoy overcoming some of the challenges they tired of. No one likes bug bites. However, I have no idea why they stayed in that place when the whole idea is to be able to move on. Anyway, it was a good example for this thread, you just don't know until you give it a try.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

overthehorizon said:


> Looking at the unrealistic makeup on the face of the "Shaggy Seas" girl, it is obvious why she could not make it more than a short spell and a few thousand miles on a sailboat. She is straight out of Gilligan's Island.


Haaa, what a hoot that you focused on her make-up. Are you saying that she is a Ginger or a Mary Ann? There is a difference.

It's probably not that unrealistic. She probably did that when she taped the epilogue for each video once they arrived somewhere. Besides, most women have no problem doing makeup in the rearview mirror while stopped at a stoplight.

The thing that I have wonder about most with a lot of these young couples is what happens when they decide that maybe they want children. I ended a lot of my travel adventures when I decided I was ready to do the whole family man/soccer dad/suburban family thing. I wanted to provide a place where my kids could play in the backyard and graduate with friends they've known since kindergarten. I achieved that adventure and now it's time for me to start a new chapter.


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## overthehorizon (Apr 7, 2018)

Minnewasaka, One winter I left my 25' powerboat, with a cuddy cabin, in the water at the dock. Because of work, it got so little use over the summer I thought I'd see what Narragansett bay was like in the cold of winter. Certainly, other than a few quahogers, you have the bay to yourself....but the wild life is amazing. Hundreds of harbor seals and thousands of flocking birds and other amazing sights. Well worth it.


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