# Anyone wear a PLB?



## joyinPNW (Jan 7, 2013)

We had a sailboat race this weekend in the PNW where a boat capsized and three people went into the water. A front came in fast and hard causing them to go over. 2 were recovered. Sadly, one was not. His body was found 24 hours later. 

It's got me thinking about PLB's. While we race and cruise, I'm wondering about the response time with ACR ResQLink, or others. I've spoken with the ACR company who reports anywhere from 2 mins to 20 mins depending on location. In the PNW, every minute matters.

Ideally, the perfect device would be activated quickly (that means it should be small and located in an accessible area of the lifevest). The location accuracy is equally important. 

We don't plan to fall off our boat but I'm stunned to lose a fellow sailor and want to prevent a future loss. Any advice out there fellow sailors?


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

Our crew on watch wear personal AIS transponders. When activated they ring an alarm on the chart plotter and the plotter even 'asks' if we want the autopilot to go straight to the MOB.

We tested them and they have a range of about 3 miles. Weakness is that they are not automatic and must be manually activated.

Lifejackets and tethers are mandatory at night and anytime the skipper calls for them. One crew member wears his all the time.

We do not have personal EPIRBS.

All new crew members get 4 hours of MOB drills.

SafeLink R10


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

I looked at the personal AIS responders a couple of years ago at the boat show and thought they were a great idea. There's a device marketed to SCUBA divers even better IMO. It's called Nautilus Lifeline. It's a VHF radio with personal AIS in a small waterproof case. We have them on the work boat for dive operations. It's on the list for the wife and I on board Nikko.

https://www.divegearexpress.com/tools/lifeline.shtml?gclid=CPLgl624z8ECFQqEfgodUxQAcA


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## joyinPNW (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks for the replies- those nautilus devices look like what I have in mind. I'd like to see some reviews.

I'm surprised that there aren't more simple, clip-on, affordable tags to quickly locate someone, such as on an app onboard. I just saw an ad for a device to put on your keyring to locate your keys.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

erps said:


> I looked at the personal AIS responders a couple of years ago at the boat show and thought they were a great idea. There's a device marketed to SCUBA divers even better IMO. It's called Nautilus Lifeline. It's a VHF radio with personal AIS in a small waterproof case. We have them on the work boat for dive operations. It's on the list for the wife and I on board Nikko.
> 
> https://www.divegearexpress.com/tools/lifeline.shtml?gclid=CPLgl624z8ECFQqEfgodUxQAcA


That device appears to use DSC, not AIS. So it's a personal VHF with DSC distress calling.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

I have a PLB that I use when I am within 150 miles (GMDSS area 2).

I think the AIS system is a better choice as the boat, off of which you just fell is close by. They are more expensive.


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## MarkSailor (Oct 17, 2010)

I have an ACR ResQLink PLB that I keep on the PFD/Harness when I am sailing solo. Not much point in AIS if no one else is aboard. 

I have also thought about a handheld VHF but there's only so much stuff you can attach to a PFD without starting to feel like its always in the way. 

It would be great if someone could combine a PLB and VHF in one small product.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

The PLB is nice because satellites can tell someone at a rescue center on the east coast where you are, anywhere in the world.

Personally I'd prefer a waterproof handheld VHF with or without DSC and GPS. Especially for our local waters, the coast guard will always be able to hear you from their towers and they have a history of taking verbal "MAYDAY" calls much more seriously than DSC or PLB alerts. This is likely due to all the false alarms.

Also, you really want to be able to talk to your own rescuers and the boats nearby, which the VHF allows you to do. It's extremely difficult to locate a bobbing head in the sea, but that same bobbing head can easily locate the boat and direct the boat to them.

If I went overboard in a PNW race, I'd want a VHF with DSC, GPS and AIS. Such a thing doesn't exist, but the scuba VHF radio is about as good as you're going to get. There are also plenty of waterproof offerings from ICOM and Standard Horizon.

*Which race did this happen during??*

MedSailor


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## Cap'n Russ (Jul 15, 2013)

My wife got me the Standard Horizon HX851 handheld VHF with integrated GPS and DSC specifically for this purpose. I registered the MMSI number in my name instead of my boat's name since I also take it with me when I'm racing on other folks' boats up and down the Chesapeake.


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## joyinPNW (Jan 7, 2013)

@MedSailor- here's the link to the race:sailboat racing death

@CapnRuss-I have that handheld but it's bulky. I'd like a small device with GPS and one button emergency, and night led strobe. The criticism of the Nautilus device is that it's not usable at night.

Thanks for all the ideas--keep them coming if you have them.


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## joyinPNW (Jan 7, 2013)

Just for clarification: I'm not suggesting this device would have saved this man's life, but it's got me thinking about safety in general and for me, what I take on the water here may make a (small or big?) difference.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

joyinPNW said:


> @MedSailor- here's the link to the race:sailboat racing death
> 
> @CapnRuss-I have that handheld but it's bulky. I'd like a small device with GPS and one button emergency, and night led strobe. The criticism of the Nautilus device is that it's not usable at night.
> 
> Thanks for all the ideas--keep them coming if you have them.


Thanks for the link. So sad...

If you like small push button options with a strobe, and you do like the PLB option this one might be for you. I'd caution you though to research the antenna. Mcmurdo has another PLB that has an exposed antenna that looks like this one that apparently doesn't work when in the water. A good reminder that PLBs are not only designed for us boaters.
OceanSignal rescueME PLB w/ GPS
Ea4Vo1gISQY[/MEDIA]

MedSailor


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

After reading a post on SA from the skipper of the boat referred to by the OP here, the problem in this situation wasn't in finding the MOB, it was in getting him aboard quickly. Several boats responded to the capsize & turtling of the distressed vessel and saved two of the three aboard. According to the skipper, the crew member who was lost stuck with the boat until it sank, but was not wearing a life jacket. The cold water must have gotten to him quickly, and he drowned before he could be helped. The Coast Guard suggests having life jackets readily available. We need to put them on more.


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## joyinPNW (Jan 7, 2013)

@paul- yes, we wear and require PFD's on our boat. My question wasn't a judgement on the fatality that occurred, rather it had me consider other scenarios where locating someone might be aided by current technology which I am not [presently] familiar with. Just trying to reexamine and beef up our own safety protocol.

There have been some great suggestions made and I appreciate it!


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Any of these work for you? Man Overboard Alarms/Locators | Fisheries Supply


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## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

I've seen this system on a few boats that have come over from France but can't comment on how well it functions. Raymarine LifeTag
In the case of the boat sinking the integrated system would be of little use...


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

When I race on OPB (Other People's Boats) I wear an inflatable and carry the HX851. If the weather is bad and / or I'm off shore, I also carry my SPOT tracker too.

I figure if I can float, communicate, and broadcast my position, I'm pretty likely to make it home.

Barry



Cap'n Russ said:


> My wife got me the Standard Horizon HX851 handheld VHF with integrated GPS and DSC specifically for this purpose. I registered the MMSI number in my name instead of my boat's name since I also take it with me when I'm racing on other folks' boats up and down the Chesapeake.


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## jhastie (Oct 29, 2014)

I carry a belt attached McMurdo Fastfind Plus PLB. If I have to leave the boat for a life raft or overboard, it is always with me. A permanently attached VHF DSC will also go down with my boat if it sinks (God forbid). Also, my ditch box has my handheld ICOM M88 and spare batteries.


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## joyinPNW (Jan 7, 2013)

Great products listed! Looking at the McMurdo or ACR Aqualink. The AIS alternative that Jackdale recommended makes sense if you have a crew that can pick you up with the boat you came off of, but I'm surprised at the cost of all the equipment needed, a big deterrent for most sailors. The initial equipment comes with 2 trackers. For a crew of 6, we'd be looking at close to 3-4K. But, in the interest of being self-sufficient, it may be an expense that is justifiable. Different angles to consider.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

FarCry said:


> I've seen this system on a few boats that have come over from France but can't comment on how well it functions. Raymarine LifeTag
> In the case of the boat sinking the integrated system would be of little use...


Jacklines and tethers can be used to prevent many MOB situations, but in this case, it wouldn't have helped, and in the case of the skipper, it may have even drowned him.

Another important point was raised is the inability of rescue boats to effectively get someone aboard. Make sure you, and your friends have all the gear/training/practice to be effective rescuers yourself!

MedSailor


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

MedSailor said:


> Another important point was raised is the inability of rescue boats to effectively get someone aboard. Make sure you, and your friends have all the gear/training/practice to be effective rescuers yourself!


Agreed. My Catalina 22 is similar in size to that Harmony 22 and it is surprisingly difficult to get someone back in. It's a small boat, you'd think you could just drag someone over the side, but it's just too much.

We came up with two workable methods with a Lifesling. Using the boom-end main tackle over the stern worked the best because of the 4-1 advantage of the tackle. A halyard and winch over the beam worked OK, but a 22' boat doesn't have particularly powerful winches so this method required a bit of brute force.

Of course both these methods assume you can get the Lifesling to the victim and get a halyard or tackle clipped to it, which is a big if in a storm like they were having.

My condolences to the friends and family, what a tragedy.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

When the weather is bad it's difficult to do ANYTHING. The last race I did was the 'Whitebread' a race around Shelter Island in the Peconic Bay of Long Island. The weather was lousy: rain, SW wind from 20-30 kts. At one point we were east of Shelter Island, beating into the SW wind and dealing with 30 kts wind and large seas. If you were sitting on the rail you could not hear the helmsman over the roar of the wind. Wearing a full set of foulies, PFD, and gear, plus a boat healing at 30+degrees made it difficult to move about the boat. Performing tasks like trimming sails, adjusting the traveler, using the head, etc. all were time consuming and difficult.

I can't imaging trying to recover a MOB in those conditions. To do so you would really have to drop sails, which would take a long time, then you would have to start the engine, make sure no lines were in the water, keep the MOB in site, get a line to them, and THEN find some way of getting them back aboard.

Barry


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

We have a PLB in our ditch bag. And off-shore and/or at night we are always clipped in.

Even so, I might get another option for the boys. I like the RM Lifetag thing.


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

Smack, 

The individual AIS units we have integrate with our Raymarine plotter and also transmits to any other boat with an AIS within 3-4miles.

Very useful in race conditions or in busy commercial waters.

We train at getting them back in the boat and our methods work well when they are conscious and cooperative. Recently an inexperienced 120 lb wife recovered her 170 lb husband unassisted but an unconscious/injured MOB would be very difficult especially in bad conditions. We have a very high freeboard and the unanswered question is...would I risk putting a crew member in the water to assist an injured man...In moderate conditions we would launch the dinghy but in bad conditions???? If I did put a man overboard they would go overboard with the main halyard rigged to a very big electric winch.

People talk of using the main sheet tackle to lift a MOB but if that results in the boom being free then it will not work even in moderate conditions without first rigging preventer/control lines on the boom. We find our dinghy engine lift works as it is very robust with a winch capable of lifting over 200 lbs. It is also well forwards of the stern so a pitching stern would not be a danger.

Racers have more trouble with MOB's because they are almost always over-canvassed...we are never over-canvassed, even when running down wind, and we can therefore usually control the boat easily to get back to the MOB even in trying conditions. On average we do 20 practice MOB drills per year and every new crew member gets to do at least 5. The log shows 8 hours of practice for last year.

Our standard MOB method is to stop the boat by heaving-to, get crew and boat under control and then start the motor and approach from down wind having doused the jib to prevent injury by flailing jib sheets. While everyone practices MOB under sail only once have I 'certified' a helmsman to do an emergency MOB's under sail without me present...but then he had over 50,000 race miles!

Short handed, in trying conditions or at night I believe that the crucial step is to stop the boat by heaving-to. 



Phil


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Yorksailor said:


> Our standard MOB method is to stop the boat by heaving-to, get crew and boat under control and then start the motor and approach from down wind having doused the jib to prevent injury by flailing jib sheets. While everyone practices MOB under sail only once have I 'certified' a helmsman to do an emergency MOB's under sail without me present...but then he had over 50,000 race miles!
> 
> Short handed, in trying conditions or at night I believe that the crucial step is to stop the boat by heaving-to.
> 
> Phil


Thank Phil. Great info. We use exactly the same method - a quick heave to. It's amazingly effective and WAY better than the old figure 8.


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## Cap'n Russ (Jul 15, 2013)

I'm a big fan of the heave-to method for MOB recovery, too. After we heave-to, we adjust the drift angle with the rudder so we're headed towards the MOB then lock the helm so all hands are available for recovery.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Yorksailor said:


> People talk of using the main sheet tackle to lift a MOB but if that results in the boom being free then it will not work even in moderate conditions without first rigging preventer/control lines on the boom.


Good point. I should have noted that my boat uses a pigtail-type thing between the two backstays to support the boom, so it's easily immobilized for bringing someone over the stern.

I would imagine that every boat is a little different for what works and what doesn't. Small boats have many challenges that big boats do not.

I notice that the two boats that recovered people were bigger, one was a 26-footer and the other a 37. It says the 37' boat used a Lifesling. I'd be interested to hear how the 26' boat pulled someone out. It must have been quite a challenge in those conditions.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

smackdaddy said:


> Thank Phil. Great info. We use exactly the same method - a quick heave to. It's amazingly effective and WAY better than the old figure 8.


From close-hauled, I teach a heave-to, sail-to, heave-to method.










We do not touch the sheets.

Our downwind MOB also ends up hove-to.


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

Never tried that Jack...back at sea in 10 days and it is the first thing we will try!


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## joyinPNW (Jan 7, 2013)

@Minnesail-the crewmember who was picked up by the 26ft boat was able to pull himself up onto the boat which is a feat I cannot imagine given the waves but he is also in great physical condition and the boat got to him very quickly, before hypothermia set in.

@Jackdale-wondering about your diagram. The conditions at the time of the incident were a southern flood tide and adverse windy/gusty conditions (one report was of a 60mph gust). Which approach for the MOB might be the wisest in your opinion?

Our club sponsors a lifesling class every year and I bet it'll be full next time it's offered!


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Joy

With the MOB to leeward, they are protected somewhat from wind and waves.

The pressure of the water pushes them away from the hull - not far.

If you miss, just circle around.

This works really well with a life sling.


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## joyinPNW (Jan 7, 2013)

Jack- wondering if there are times when you would/should use the motor, rather than try to recover by sailing? I'm reading John Kretschmer's new book and he says to never even attempt to recover a MOB by sailing. Then the CSA and ASA have opposite opinions on windward/leeward MOB recovery. Are there times when the winds/currents dictate a rule of thumb?


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

The previous owner of my boat made a complete hash of an MOB recovery, by starting the engine without getting all the sheets under control. One went into the prop, and disabled the boat completely. The propshaft was forced out and jammed the rudder. Thankfully, the USCG came to the rescue.

I formed the opinion that in the case of an MOB, you should keep doing what you were doing. If sailing, carry on. If motoring, great. Unless you have plenty of time & crew, and a level head, you aren't going to have time to switch modes in a controlled manner and may make a serious mistake.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

joyinPNW said:


> Jack- wondering if there are times when you would/should use the motor, rather than try to recover by sailing? I'm reading John Kretschmer's new book and he says to never even attempt to recover a MOB by sailing. Then the CSA and ASA have opposite opinions on windward/leeward MOB recovery. Are there times when the winds/currents dictate a rule of thumb?


See Mark's comment.

The strategy on big boats is to stop, and use a tender.

Some studies (I will attempt to find them) have shown in a windward pick up the boat drifts faster than the MOB.

On a windward pickup, the sails are luffing. On a leeward hove-to pick up they are under control. As well on a leeward hove-to pickup, the boat heels toward the MOB.

Current usually affects the boat and the MOB equally.


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