# Sailing lesson BVI vs USVI



## luvoceanlife

Hello,

After many years of liveaboard dreaming our family of three is ready to jump in and learn to sail! We are looking at either the BVI or USVI but wanted to see if anyone would advise which is better to choose for our seven day liveaboard sailing lessons. COVID wise there is a four day quarantine in the BVI and none for the USVI (we are coming from Maine and will be vaccinated, thankfully). So clearly for that reason BVI would be safest but more expensive upfront, though the cost is not as much of a concern to us.

The other question is about gratuity. The sites that I saw state that gratuity for your captain is 8-12% of the overall cost. At 9-12k for an 6-8 day sailing package (ASA 101, 103, 104, & 114) this would $900-1200. Is that right or am I missing something? 

Thanks in advance!


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## emcentar

I can't answer for normal times, but I do have an American friend who has been sailing in the Caribbean since right before Covid hit, and the USVI does seem to be the best place there right now both in terms of stability of restrictions and available amenities for U.S. citizens.


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## sailingfool

Far more important the quality of the instructors than the location of the sailing. Having had the opportunity to work with these folks, I can highly recommend their program as exceptionally good, as is demonstrated by the long list of "outstanding" ASA school and instructor awards. If they have any open seats in their USVI schedule, you will not be disappointed. 








US Virgin Island Sailing Classes - St Thomas | BRSS


Learn to sail in the Caribbean Sea or enjoy a weeklong private charter with a lesson or excursion from Black Rock Sailing School's St. Thomas location.




 blackrocksailingschool.com


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## Telesail

I would suggest St Thomas is a no brainer - at a minimum, you could sail for the extra days rather than sitting in quarantine and in any case the logistics of getting to the BVI are simply less convenient. There are several options for lessons (Sailingfool’s recommendation is good but also suggest reaching out to Black Rock Sailing School in Rhode Island as they do some stuff in St Thomas and are equally well regarded).

Hope it all goes well You will love it.


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## sailingfool

Telesail said:


> .... There are several options for lessons (Sailingfool's recommendation is good but also suggest reaching out to Black Rock Sailing School in Rhode Island as they do some stuff in St Thomas and are equally well regarded).
> ....


Same people, the staff from the Boston and Warwick RI locations, relocate to USVI for their winter work),,,


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## Telesail

Sorry. Having a senior moment. I clicked on an advert link rather than the one you posted and thought you were taking about the mob at Red Hook 🙂. We are in agreement - Brenton and his folks are first rate.


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## luvoceanlife

The Black Rock Sailing School spoke to the fast track courses being less than optimal. They made it seems like this was a watered down version that doesn't really prepare their students (my interpretation). There is something appealing about leaving with four certifications/knowledge though but I don't want to miss steps. Again, new to sailing and wondered what you all thought.


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## Minnewaska

Certainly, getting from the mainland US to the USVI would seem the path of least resistance right now and I've heard of many good liveaboard programs. My wife experienced the Offshore Sailing School's, week long fast track to cruising program. (I tagged along to the BVI) I was impressed with how she went from knowing zero about sailing to reasonably competent fair weather sailing in that short week. Of course, she immediately began to use those skills on our own boat. 

I fully agree, it's about the instructor. She had two, one was a former America's Cup crew member. He was competent, but full of himself. I sat in the classroom with her. The other was down to earth and she took to him very well. 

The other major variable is the student's aptitude. My wife is pretty athletic and takes up things like this pretty well. Everyone is different. Most can get to the same place, it's just a question of how much effort it takes. Some need more time, more structure, others get it and need to move quickly to stay engaged. Another variable is whether one has any boating experience. Some already understand things like the rule of the road or navigation and only need to learn how to physically sail.


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## Telesail

It depends what your goal is. I would be inclined to go with the Black Rock approach. If you want to learn, then just go as far as you can in the time. If you want the qualifications to be able to charter then the shorter course makes sense but it may leave gaps that you would wish you had filled.
Either way, you can’t lose because you will be sailing in the sunshine...


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## luvoceanlife

I just spoke to Brenton. Sounds really solid and we will probably book with them for March. Thanks for the recommendation!


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## sailingfool

luvoceanlife said:


> The Black Rock Sailing School spoke to the fast track courses being less than optimal. They made it seems like this was a watered down version that doesn't really prepare their students (my interpretation). There is something appealing about leaving with four certifications/knowledge though but I don't want to miss steps. Again, new to sailing and wondered what you all thought.


You can find a number of SN posts regarding this subject, just search "fast track". Here are a few








Too Much, Too Soon?


Hello everyone, I haven’t set foot on a sailboat in quite a while, and never acted as crew on one before, but I generally love the feel of being on the water in most any boat. Assuming that I truly enjoy sailing as much as I remember, I was wondering if any of you have encountered or heard...




www.sailnet.com












Need Help picking a sailing school.


Hello, I am new to this forum. Thanks for all the great information here. I am looking for recommendations for a Sailing School. My wife would like to take part of this journey and learn to sail with me. I had a little experience in the past as crew. ( 5 or 6 two hour sails) My wife has no...




www.sailnet.com












Sailing schools/clases. Help!


Hello. I know this has probably been asked several times, and I will go do a search, but in the meantime I will ask the question. I will tell you right up front I know near nothing about sailing. I want to learn though and eventually in the not so distant future, be able to comfortably sail...




www.sailnet.com





As someone who has taught ASA classes for twelve years, I am 100% with BlackRock in panning the fast track concept. For example, you might be able to find an on-line school that allows you to get an MBA in two weekends- but dont expect much other than a piece of paper. It unfortunate for the ASA programs that ASA has no requirements for class size or length...


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## SailorManX1

I wonder what choice you made. I thought I should start from the quality of the study and the curriculum, but I'm just starting to choose which study plan I need. I was also interested in how much safety is ensured when studying on the islands. When I studied immigrant essay examples find out more I found information that some routes are used for illegal immigration or smuggling and are regularly raided by the police. I don't want to have any problems while learning.


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## SanderO

Does this mean you need to have accommodations down there... or do you stay aboard the teaching boat?


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## sailingfool

sailingfool said:


> You can find a number of SN posts regarding this subject, just search "fast track". ...
> 
> As someone who has taught ASA classes for twelve years, I am 100% with BlackRock in panning the fast track concept. For example, you might be able to find an on-line school that allows you to get an MBA in two weekends- but dont expect much other than a piece of paper. It unfortunate for the ASA programs that ASA has no requirements for class size or length...


FWIW, the ASA just published an affiliate newsletter with the following advice:
****


ASA 101, 103, 104 Class Lengths​



​




In the September Bearings, we wrote about the reports that ASA receives from students who are concerned that they may not have been properly certified at some of our Affiliate schools because their ASA courses were conducted on boats that were not appropriate for the class, like ASA 101 on a catamaran, or ASA 103 on a boat without a cabin and inboard engine. We also receive reports from students about ASA 101 and 103 being conducted for, say, twelve to fifteen hours of time over only two days. This is not what those students were expecting to happen and after they receive their Logbooks, they question why all the Knowledge and Skills Elements were not covered in their classes.

Affiliates, it’s important that you instruct your students on boats that are appropriate for the ASA Certification or Endorsement that you offer, and it’s just as important that you hold your ASA classes over a sufficient period of time, both in the classroom and underway, to cover all of the Knowledge and Skills Elements listed in the ASA Logbook for each ASA Certification or Endorsement Standard. For beginners, ASA 101 Keelboat Sailing should be instructed aboard a sloop-rigged keelboat 22 to 27 feet in length. It is better to teach ASA 101 as a stand-alone class of about 24 hours in duration. In a normal class with three or four students aboard, this could be done over two consecutive weekends for six hours each day or over a long three-day weekend for eight hours each day. This amount of time is required to cover the 52 Knowledge and Skill Elements of the ASA 101 Standard, providing each student in your class a sufficient amount of attention, practice time at the tiller, and a written examination on the last day, reviewed by the Instructor.

Another 52 Knowledge and Skill Elements are required in ASA 103 Coastal Cruising. For beginning students, it’s better to day sail the ASA recommended minimum of 24 hours before undertaking ASA 103 which must be taught on a sloop-rigged keelboat 25 to 35 feet in length over the same sufficient period of time as ASA 101 described above.

Another 56 Knowledge and Skill Elements are required in ASA 104 Bareboat Cruising. For students who attained ASA 101 and 103 recently, it is best to sail the ASA recommended minimum of 80 hours before undertaking ASA 104. For most students, this course is a milestone in that it is the first time they will reach a new port by sunset. ASA 104 must be instructed aboard a sloop-rigged keelboat 30 to 45 feet in length, typically over a three-day period of about 60 hours, e.g. from 9am Friday to 6pm Sunday.

For experienced sailors who now just want ASA Certification, an ASA 101, 103, 104 bundle could be conducted over nine contiguous days with one hour of Knowledge and Skills discussion and four hours of Skills Training per day in a typical class with four students. Each class would also require an extra hour or two for written examination and review with the Instructor. Longer days or fewer students could change the class schedule. Adding an ASA 114 class for four students would add one more day. For experienced monohull sailors, an ASA 104, 114 bundle could be sailed entirely aboard a cruising catamaran. Please note again that these bundles should be for experienced sailors only, as beginning sailors need the ASA-recommended hours of sailing skills experience before undertaking ASA 103 and 104 aboard appropriate keelboats on widely separated days for safety and skills retention.

Finally, ASA Knowledge and Skills Elements that are only discussed, not actually performed, or skipped entirely, will lead to the dilution of the American Sailing brand and a diminished regard for your school. Recall how it was to sail in the beginning and how important it was to reinforce skills over many days of sufficient time on appropriate vessels.​


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## capta

St Thomas has very few good sailing options unless you head to the Spanish Virgins, but you'll have to beat your way back to St.T.
Sailing up Sir Francis Drake channel can be a miserable beat, but the run back from Virgin Gorda is a blast. If I were you, I'd be looking to sail between St. Vincent or Bequia to Carriacou (roughly north and south), as it is more across the E wind. There are far more interesting and less expensive night spots down that way, and the Tobago Cays is a "must visit, even if only for a lunch stop. However, the meals served by the islander on the beach there are a bit dear, but a meal to remember. Say hi to Romeo, if you go.


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