# Pogo 50 with in-boom furling.



## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

I wonder if any of the more design minded types on this forum could advise me of the merits in having an in boom furling system rather than a free rigged mast on the Pogo 50.

I appreciate it would of course add weight to a design that is very weight concious and may undermine the original mission statement a little but in cruise mode I would have thought it may be more tactical to be able to reef easily, thus providing the ability to maintain optimum sail area for longer and not be parking the rig all the time "just in case" or when short handed.

The Schaefer system seems to me to be a good solution as the mechanics are at the end of the boom and it would seem not to have too much impact on the mast when trying to adapt it. It would also of course provide for a fully battened square sail that having no back stay on the pogo seems to provide for.

I would love this boat but could imagine myself forever being worried about the amount of sail running and would get fed up very fast with having to constantly reef for optimum running. I know I would be lazy and safety minded and always end up running a reef when not needed which defeats the object somewhat.

I would much rather drop a K or two from the top end potential and be able to run close to the optimum most of the time simply and easily.

Would welcome feed back please. Is my thinking correct?










Boom Furlers - Schaefer Marine


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Agree the Schaffer seems better engineered than the leisurefurl and slightly less need to be directly into the wind to furl. Still would exam closely how you will cruise
Think about 
If halyard chafes through the whole sail will dump on deck or over the side 
If mandril or bearings go you have no mainsail 
You lose ability to shape sail to a meaningful degree 
Boom angle has to,be just right. The smallest bit off sail will creep forward or aft as it rolls.

Sister ship has in boom. When mainsail wears out he is junking it and going back to simple slab reefing. KISS


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Agree with OutB... and also with the negatives you post yourself.

If managing the main is such a concern, for similar money you could optimize your systems (electric halyard winch; smooth, effective reefing systems) and optimize your practices (reef early, reef often etc). Seems to me as shorthanded cruisers you'd be tending to the short side of sailpower often anyhow. (Friends who doublehand cruise the Eastern Caribbean chain on a much more sedate Bene 36.7 sail most often with double reef and jib)


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

The Schaefer system has a fail safe so you can always spin out the sail(so I am told) and rely there after on makeshift slab reefing. Also the Pogo's traveller is at the very end so setting the correct boom angle for ideal furl operation(I think this is the main issue with furl booms) may be easier. Just seems to me that in this instance at least the Pogo lends itself very well to in boom furling.

I like speed but I like to press buttons also.. I sent a letter to pogo structures so If they reply I will let you know their take on the matter.

The rear looks just a little too open to me to be stumbling around in a blow frigging with the rigging as a not so experienced sailor.

Looks like it could be a bit scary if I am honest.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

Just sailed on a Bene with the system and it works perfect did not see any negatives except for the foot of the sail is on roller and can not shape the foot of the sail. Sail maker is talking about making it a true loose foot by using some webbing straps connecting the sail foot and the roller. the straps would be loose while sailing and start the winding when you roll it up. the boom just hangs on the sail and the angle during rolling seen to just take care of itself


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

paulanthony said:


> The rear looks just a little too open to me to be stumbling around in a blow frigging with the rigging as a not so experienced sailor.
> 
> Looks like it could be a bit scary if I am honest.


No offence, but it seems to me that:

"Not so experienced sailor:ogo50"
is kinda like
"Driver with learners license::Indy race car"

.. but I've been plenty wrong before. I'd suggest racking up some experience on OPBBs (other peoples' big boats) to get a better idea of what you're in for, although there's likely not much commonality between a Pogo 50 and a Beneteau 50 or any other 'production cruiser'...

Clearly you're not short of cash, so good luck! (in a good way) FWIW I've been sailing for several decades, boats up to 40 feet, and would find the Pogo exciting AND intimidating, I'm sure...


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

Your point is taken "faster" and you are probably right which is why I was wondering if their was a technology driven way to tame the beast.

From a purchase point of view there is not much out there that combines Pogo's level of performance and liveability proposition. In fact I know of no other in this size bracket with this kind of hull except the advanced 44 I think it is but it compromises a lot with respect to liveability. The alternative really is a performance based cat for probably a lot more money.

It hits a sweet spot(I am not sure if it is an enduring one though) which is maybe why it has a very long lead time for a new build. If I am honest sub ten knot conservatism will more than likely win the day for me but it's fun to examine the options, options, opt's... 

I do like it though.. A lot!


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

I don't get your logic. You buy a go fast boat then think of doing some thing that will hamper its performance. Its a sweet boat let it sing.
You buy a boat that is capable of long distance travels then put something on it which dramatically increases complexity, degrades safety and does not measurably decrease labor/inconvenience of reefing.
With modern blocks, line organizers, no stretch lines and a modicum of thought simple slab reefing is easy, reliable and foolproof ( I know because the wife thinks I'm a fool to be sailing). 
With a powered winch to raise the mainsail my 100lb. wife easily raises, reefs and strikes the mainsail. We rarely wake anyone for these evolutions other then to have them watch the horizon. Rarely touch the AP except when on a run. Never need to turn on the engine to reef. It increases safety when you are single.All are done in the safety of the cockpit. With modern systems your only concern is to periodically take the twist out of the lines so they run smooth. I even am so gun shy of screw ups that a have a Dutchman. That way there is no chance the main can hang up on a batten as you can have with lazyjacks if you don't routinely bring them forward. Coastal leave third reef out. Less string on the sail and spaghetti in the cockpit.
Once again - buddy boat with a sistership. He is slower. He needs to fiddle with his in boom over and over again. He has had the rigger and sail maker back to his boat several times. It takes him longer to reef then me. He has to head up more then me to reef. 
Note with the schaffer you are at the extreme upper limit of SA for their system. I was in the same position. It did not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. I'm glad I didn't spec it. In retrospect might even have spec'd just two reefs. First half way between my current one and two. Second just a bit deeper than my third to match the storm jib better.


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

I do agree "outbound" that you are going to lose some top end speed and I have really no idea what that would be and it may make the idea of boom furling some what academic if the loss in speed was too great. However, this is the work flow for reefing listed on the Shaefer site. I know not all is applicable but that Pogo has a wide platform at the back with out much mass and high initial stability making it quite a nervous and bouncy craft so imagine doing this in a sudden blow with some choppy sea's. I read that the Shaefer system can reef on any point. 

I watched the Pogo 12.5 doing 25 Knots. I don't need 25.. 20 is enough for me if I could be more safe.

If I had no fast recourse to reef I would always run with a reef unless dead calm because I would be as nervous as the boat due to its performance capability. 

Have a read and tell me if don't agree.

Bring boat into the wind
Ease mainsheet.
Ease vang.
Tighten topping lift (a winch operation on larger boats.)
Release tension on main halyard.
Lower mainsail (requires leaving the cockpit.)
Attach tack grommet to the tack horn (requires leaving the cockpit)
Re-tension main halyard (a winch operation on larger boats.)
Trim clew reef line (a winch operation on larger boats.)


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Requirements to leave the cockpit during reefing are easily removed with a good system and the required lines effectively run aft to the cockpit. Outbound has already stated he can do it all from there. For a lot less outlay the Pogo can be rigged for this - compared to the costs ( on all levels) of trying to add a furling main to that rig - that rigging setup may even be standard, but you could certainly specify it.

Also if you're already contemplating "being reefed" most of the time its even more important to be able to achieve good sailshape when reefed.. Another pointer towards a good traditional slab reefing arrangement.


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

I know what you mean "faster" but I would like rid of the bits of string if I could. I want buttons. Actually just two. Sail up and sail down 


The following text is an excerpt re the pogo 40. Ok - its a race boat but the 50 is not much removed from this. Incidentally the 40 requires that you release one of the back stays every time you tack because of the square top.
Ouch! 

The Rig

Clearly a race boat rig. Everywhere you look the rig is optimized for fast sailing at the expense of making the crew work more. All the systems are very simple but effective. For example there is neither a topping lift nor a kicker. When the main goes down the boom is held (dangerously low) by the lazy jacks until you clip the main halyard to its end and use that as a topping lift. The vang is merely a strong line attached to the front and aft of the boom. To pull it down you clip another line into it, feed it through a block at the toe rail and winch it down. So much simpler than the traditional cruising system, and much more effective because it actually pulls down instead of forward to the mast.

The boom extends all the way to the transom, which is where the sheet is attached and goes down to a traveler that spans the entire width of the boat. This way you get a lot more leverage than if it was installed on the cabin top like on other boats.

The mast is made from carbon fiber but still needs a back stay. As we have a square top main make that two stays, which have to be alternated with every tack or gybe, otherwise the main’s head would get caught in them. As soon as you put in at least one reef you can leave the stays though, as the head is able to slip under them.

Our boat (very creatively named Pogo 1 by the way) had a total of four reefs. It has a two line system, i.e. a cunningham at the mast that has to be rerigged for every reef, and fixed reef lines at the leech.


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## jimrafford (Jan 7, 2011)

I don't see a lot of feed back from owners that actually have in boom furling. 
Our current boat came w/ it and I will never look back. 
I've had a dutchman, lazy jacks and plain slab flaking on previous boats. No comparison. I've been sailing for almost 6 decades.
This isn't about boat speed, that conversation and in boom furling is a load of crap personally, it's about short handed sail handling. 
Once you understand the system the boom angle is really easy.
My wife and I take in and shake out reefs often, in less than a minute and never change our heading. Never leave the helm or cockpit. That never happened before. Reefing points are infinate.
We do have to head up to take the main down, who doesn't. Our fully battened main is gone and stowed in seconds.
At the end of a long day or before a thunder storm to not have to deal w/ a bunch of canvas blocking your forward vision is priceless.
Well worth the investment.
Jim


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

What manufacturer supplied the rig jimrafford? and how do you mark the correct boom angle when reefing?

I am glad to hear it works for you. Do you have problems with the battens shifting at all?


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

paulanthony said:


> The Schaefer system has a fail safe so you can always spin out the sail(so I am told) and rely there after on makeshift slab reefing. Also the Pogo's traveller is at the very end so setting the correct boom angle for ideal furl operation(I think this is the main issue with furl booms) may be easier. Just seems to me that in this instance at least the Pogo lends itself very well to in boom furling.


End boom sheeting has nothing to do with maintaining the precise boom angle required of in-boom furling... That's usually done with a rigid vang, typically hydraulic... I've also seen a topping lift used, but that's generally less precise, and can lead to problems... And, a topping lift is out of the question with a square-topped main, nor do I even see a vang in any of the drawings or pics of the Pogo...

However, I don't see how it would be possible on that rig, raked aft as it is, and the boom end raised as much as it appears in all of the pics I've seen of the boat. I have no experience with the Schaefer system, but Leisure-Furl requires a very precise angle between the boom and the mast - usually 88-89 degrees if memory serves - depending on how the sailmaker has built the sail... No way you could accomplish that with this rig...


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

jimrafford said:


> ...Reefing points are infinate...


You may want to check with whoever built your mainsail on that... 

That may very well be the case with a boat of your size, which is typically on the smaller end of the spectrum of boats fitted with in boom furlers... But on the boats I've sailed with larger mains, it was still recommended that only 'reef points' just below each batten be used. The sails had been built with some extra reinforcement at those spots, as the rest of the leech of the sail was not necessarily considered to be of sufficient strength to carry some of the loads it might see...

Probably more of a general precaution than anything else, but on any boom furled main that has been built up in the vicinity of the battens, I'd want to adhere to it...


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## jimrafford (Jan 7, 2011)

The sail is a north. We use the battens as our reef points for both the reinforcements and as reference points. The system is a Sailtainer. It uses a spring loaded rigid vang. The angle has to be as you stated for the sail to furl properly which on our system is preset. In the event of a vang failure we have a topping lift connected to the boom.
Jim


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## knuterikt (Aug 7, 2006)

JonEisberg said:


> End boom sheeting has nothing to do with maintaining the precise boom angle required of in-boom furling... That's usually done with a rigid vang, typically hydraulic... I've also seen a topping lift used, but that's generally less precise, and can lead to problems... And, a topping lift is out of the question with a square-topped main, nor do I even see a vang in any of the drawings or pics of the Pogo...
> 
> However, I don't see how it would be possible on that rig, raked aft as it is, and the boom end raised as much as it appears in all of the pics I've seen of the boat. I have no experience with the Schaefer system, but Leisure-Furl requires a very precise angle between the boom and the mast - usually 88-89 degrees if memory serves - depending on how the sailmaker has built the sail... No way you could accomplish that with this rig...


Another small problem..
The in boom roller furling requires the battens to be parallel to the boom
How would you do that on fathead main.
The top batten is almost 45 degrees angle to the mast to lift the sail (not so visible in the artists drawing above.

But have a look here (last page) http://www.pogostructures.com/uploads/doc-pogo50-en.pdf


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

knuterikt said:


> Another small problem..
> The in boom roller furling requires the battens to be parallel to the boom
> How would you do that on fathead main.
> The top batten is almost 45 degrees angle to the mast to lift the sail (not so visible in the artists drawing above.
> ...


Hmmm, good eye, I hadn't thought of that...

Also, the diagram I posted shows only ONE reef in the main... Yikes, especially for a boat designed to be sailed flat... 

I'd want a couple more on a boat like that one, or at least a _REALLY_ deep second...

Moot point, anyway, she's not really my type of boat, not to mention being within my means, either...


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Seems to me that this discussion is more about the appropriateness of in-boom furling for this boat in particular, vs the general furling main debate issues. And as noted, the fathead top batten is a non starter anyhow.

This boat is going to appeal and make sense to a certain type of sailor... and I don't think that type of sailor would opt for a bulky furling boom on such a boat - even perhaps for aesthetic reasons alone...


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

Yeh, I also wondered about the rake of the boom. It is quite severe on the Pogo.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Faster said:


> This boat is going to appeal and make sense to a certain type of sailor... and I don't think that type of sailor would opt for a bulky furling boom on such a boat - even perhaps for aesthetic reasons alone...


Well, you never know about aesthetics... I've seen a Leisure-Furl boom slapped onto a Bristol Channel Cutter...

Sorry, but that's just plain _WRONG_...


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## Shockwave (Feb 4, 2014)

With racks and lazy jacks the main should stay on the boom and not droop over the sides when reefed. Our main is slightly larger and we have used those systems for years with good effect and if the reefing is set up correctly you can reef from the cockpit.

Just watched the video, they have racks.........


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

This got me thinking... how does one drop and flake a fathead main and actually get a sail cover on it?

Good old google got me the answer.. pretty simple elegant solution...


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

So only a little bit poking out of the in boom furler then. That's ok


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

paulanthony said:


> So only a little bit poking out of the in boom furler then. That's ok


AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!NOOOOOOO.... Don't do it


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

Faster said:


> This got me thinking... how does one drop and flake a fathead main and actually get a sail cover on it?
> 
> Good old google got me the answer.. pretty simple elegant solution...


I am looking at this for my flattop main but what happens to the halyard? how do you keep it tight when not in use. Now I remove the halyard and clip to end of the boom and unhook the headboard to stow in the stackpak


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

overbored said:


> I am looking at this for my flattop main but what happens to the halyard? how do you keep it tight when not in use. Now I remove the halyard and clip to end of the boom and unhook the headboard to stow in the stackpak


Yeah.. looks like the halyard might be spliced/pinned on that headboard. Maybe pull the standing part all the way back to the end of the boom and tie it there, cover it all with the cover? Need a longer tail, of course...


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

Faster said:


> Yeah.. looks like the halyard might be spliced/pinned on that headboard. Maybe pull the standing part all the way back to the end of the boom and tie it there, cover it all with the cover? Need a longer tail, of course...


that would work. I was thinking of a way to tie it to the top of the stackpak a few feet back from the mast or where the lazyjack attaches to the top of the pack. it would be good not to have to connect and disconnect it every time while standing on the mast steps.


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## knuterikt (Aug 7, 2006)

JonEisberg said:


> Hmmm, good eye, I hadn't thought of that...
> 
> Also, the diagram I posted shows only ONE reef in the main... Yikes, especially for a boat designed to be sailed flat...
> 
> ...


If you look at the pdf I linked- there are three reefs.


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

Would it be the case that in boom furling would be good for a masthead rig? In this instance you would have two sails to de-power nearly simultaneously. Although I have only ever sailed a fractional rig so would not know really but this is what I have been told. That must surely be a pain in backside.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

paulanthony said:


> Would it be the case that in boom furling would be good for a masthead rig? In this instance you would have two sails to de-power nearly simultaneously. Although I have only ever sailed a fractional rig so would not know really but this is what I have been told. That must surely be a pain in backside.


Masthead or Fractional makes no difference.. headsail on a furler, main on a furler you 'could' have a two button sail area control scenario.

If you mean a double headed rig vs a single headed rig, they are often on furlers as well, so now 'three buttons'... 

With respect, the questions you're asking tell me this is too much boat for you right now (the Pogo, that is, no matter what size)


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Faster said:


> Masthead or Fractional makes no difference.. headsail on a furler, main on a furler you 'could' have a two button sail area control scenario.
> 
> If you mean a double headed rig vs a single headed rig, they are often on furlers as well, so now 'three buttons'...


I wonder whether Reckmann will ever make an in-boom furler?

In my somewhat limited experience with fingertip furling, that is the only manufacturer whose button has never failed to get the job done..



There would seem to be good reason why they are the choice of so many of the big boys...


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Had opportunity to watch the big boys race as they wandered around doing the bucket. Sailboats in the 170-200' range. Went out at start (pursuit) and finish. Got to watch them raise and strike sail.
There are multiple reasons you nearly never see them sailing except in such an event. Both raising and striking sail are high stress events. Both evolutions require much attention to do just right and not injure sails,boat or crew. I was told it costs more money to sail these boats then power point to point. And there is a risk of ripping a sail that costs more then 90% of the boats out there. Hydraulics are wonderful but like with electric winches there is no feel and great opportunity to break things. ( don't ask how I know). My biggest fear now with new crew is how they use the "button(s)".


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

outbound said:


> Had opportunity to watch the big boys race as they wandered around doing the bucket. Sailboats in the 170-200' range. Went out at start (pursuit) and finish. Got to watch them raise and strike sail.
> There are multiple reasons you nearly never see them sailing except in such an event. Both raising and striking sail are high stress events. Both evolutions require much attention to do just right and not injure sails,boat or crew. I was told it costs more money to sail these boats then power point to point. And there is a risk of ripping a sail that costs more then 90% of the boats out there. Hydraulics are wonderful but like with electric winches there is no feel and great opportunity to break things. ( don't ask how I know). My biggest fear now with new crew is how they use the "button(s)".


Without a doubt, there is no easier way to break stuff on many of today's boats, than with the simple push of a button... I friend of mine who works as a rigger for a big outfit in FL jokes that it's 'buttons on boats' that keep them in business...

The trends are a bit spooky... One of the worst, IMHO, is the increasing number who apparently feel comfortable operating their anchor windlass with a toggle switch at the helm... Good way to do some _serious_ damage...


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

outbound said:


> Had opportunity to watch the big boys race as they wandered around doing the bucket. Sailboats in the 170-200' range. Went out at start (pursuit) and finish. Got to watch them raise and strike sail.
> There are multiple reasons you nearly never see them sailing except in such an event. Both raising and striking sail are high stress events. Both evolutions require much attention to do just right and not injure sails,boat or crew. I was told it costs more money to sail these boats then power point to point. And there is a risk of ripping a sail that costs more then 90% of the boats out there. Hydraulics are wonderful but like with electric winches there is no feel and great opportunity to break things. ( don't ask how I know). My biggest fear now with new crew is how they use the "button(s)".


hehe.. Buttons are goood "Outbound".. Not bacon sandwich good but good. )


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

You just have to go with the technology and add more technology like torque sensors on your windless. We use technology in cars to make life easy and we constantly push the limits so we can drive safely whilst pretending to be an f1 driver. We should be able to do similar with sail boats. I don't need to know about wishbone suspensions or shifting C of G when driving a fast car because I have traction control and other things to aid me and it should be the same with boats. I really don't want to have to be bothered with vangs, topping lifts, outhauls, reefing lines, sail covers, dutchman lines or lazy lines that snag. What's left? I just wana turn off from the wind and sip a beer.. I want up and down and near auto perfect sail shaping (traction control - why not?). I don't want green fancy crap that industry keeps trying to sell me. I want amps amps and more amps provided by a carbon emitting diesel so I can have max automation in a sail boat and relax and not bust a gut running around like a monkey.

In my humble opinion (and it is humble because I have not crossed and ocean or anything like that) the sail boat and rigging design industry needs a severe kicking because it is still designed for sailors and not people.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

You'll be first in line for that car that will 'drive itself' too, I suppose.. 

I 'get' the need/desire for things to ease the effort of hoisting sails, esp when the boats get beyond 40 or so feet, so in that regard an electric halyard winch makes some sense. Powered furling will always need a careful eye on what's going on (if you need to 'winch' a manual furling setup something's wrong with the gear or your technique)

Such amenities for hoisting/unfurling sails do not negate the need for vangs or sailtrim settings.

I'm in the Industrial Automation business and I understand the need and advantages of automating many things. But to me the joy of sailing is feeling the wind, the motion, making those infinitesimal adjustments to try to get the last tenth of a knot out of the boat for the conditions at play. On our midsized boat the effort of hoisting sails and dousing sails and putting on covers is good exercise, good practice, and yet another integral part of what sailing your own boat is all about.

I think you're setting yourself up for a diminished experience...


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

paulanthony said:


> You just have to go with the technology and add more technology like torque sensors on your windless. We use technology in cars to make life easy and we constantly push the limits so we can drive safely whilst pretending to be an f1 driver. We should be able to do similar with sail boats. I don't need to know about wishbone suspensions or shifting C of G when driving a fast car because I have traction control and other things to aid me and it should be the same with boats. I really don't want to have to be bothered with vangs, topping lifts, outhauls, reefing lines, sail covers, dutchman lines or lazy lines that snag. What's left? I just wana turn off from the wind and sip a beer.. I want up and down and near auto perfect sail shaping (traction control - why not?). I don't want green fancy crap that industry keeps trying to sell me. I want amps amps and more amps provided by a carbon emitting diesel so I can have max automation in a sail boat and relax and not bust a gut running around like a monkey.
> 
> In my humble opinion (and it is humble because I have not crossed and ocean or anything like that) the sail boat and rigging design industry needs a severe kicking because it is still designed for sailors and not people.


Does Pogo make a powerboat yet?

'Cause it sounds like that's what you really want...


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Faster said:


> I think you're setting yourself up for a diminished experience...


Or worse...

We've already heard how well all those automatic sensors built into the Gunboat 55 to dump the sheets when the loads get too high work, right?


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

Yeh... Now we are talking )))


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

Yeh.. Maybe some diminished brain cells to.  

It is this that I am making reference to really faster. "Such amenities for hoisting/unfurling sails do not negate the need for vangs or sailtrim settings." 

We should be seeing these systems automated but we are not. I accept many people like to fiddle but in reality how many times have you ever sat in a car and turned driver assist off. I think I turned mine off once to try an get the rear end out. It was a bit messy so I just switched it back on.

I am sure that if you were on a boat that had a self adjusting rig giving you best efficiencies you would not turn it off. Well I wouldn't


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## paulanthony (Feb 9, 2015)

JonEisberg said:


> Does Pogo make a powerboat yet?
> 
> 'Cause it sounds like that's what you really want...


I had a power boat once JonEisberg and there was not enough to do to keep you busy  Joking aside who can afford to run a power boat these days. Not me. Not in UK at least anyway.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

paulanthony said:


> I am sure that if you were on a boat that had a self adjusting rig giving you best efficiencies you would not turn it off. Well I wouldn't


Don't be so sure.. I'm quite sure I don't need/want that to the extent you're proposing.

I do appreciate the autohelm on calm, wet windless days.. I don't use it if there's enough breeze to sail (we do a better job of steering, and enjoy it)


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

paulanthony said:


> We should be seeing these systems automated but we are not. I accept many people like to fiddle but in reality how many times have you ever sat in a car and turned driver assist off. I think I turned mine off once to try an get the rear end out. It was a bit messy so I just switched it back on.
> 
> I am sure that if you were on a boat that had a self adjusting rig giving you best efficiencies you would not turn it off. Well I wouldn't


Why, that would be as silly as turning off, or disregarding, a chartplotter... 

Now up to SIX - and counting - the number of boats lost so far this year in the San Blas Islands... Some no doubt like this one, with a healthy assist from today's techno-marvels...

https://sanctuarycruising.wordpress.com/2015/04/06/the-last-voyage-of-firefly/


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Paul
With all due respect you need to take captain Ron to heart and think long and hard on:
Having a boat bigger then you can single hand with no powered mechanical aid. 
Buying a boat you don't understand how to keep functional unless you can afford a full time captain to run it for you.
Going to sea without experienced off shore crew until you have gained that experience.
The quote is:
" if it's going to happen- it will happen out there".
Best wishes but signing off until this thread becomes more reality based.
Putting in boom into Pogo 50 and then cruising offshore- bah humbug 
Hubris kills more recreational sailors and flyers then having the garmin screw up.


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