# 14d Greece charter :Athens - as far as possible - Athens???



## aaidonnow (Mar 16, 2005)

Hi, 

we are willing to rent a 36,2 Sun Odyssey for the last week of July + first week of August. We would start and end in Athens.
5 Of us can sail (although not sailed in a Yacht before), and we would like to sail as much as possible, so really go for the sailing itself. Of course we would do the cyclades, but is it possible to go to Crete? 

And, how many Nautical Miles can we on average get every day, when we start early and stop late?

Is it possible/allowed to sail at night, for example when we''re doing the trip to Crete?

Do we have to reach the harbors before a certain hour, or can we arrive there whenever we want?


A lot of questions, I know, but if You sailors have some spare time to help me/us out ... .


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

step one: go to this website and read through it, especially the suggested itineraries..http://www.sailingissues.com/

Setp two: use the link on that website to contact Diederik and tell him what you are planning and ask him for advice, especially the night sailing questions. He is hooked into most of the reputable Charter companies and can answer most questions you may have. 

He has been extremely helpful to myself and many other sailors.

I would also try to find a copy of "The Greek Waters Pilot" by Rod Heikell

Those two resources are about the best you can do as far as sailing...now, if you have questions regarding food and wines in the area, just post another message under "general discussion" and you will get people arguing over where to find the best crepes (Mykonos), wines (Santorini), saganaki (fried cheese to die for in Athens), olives (any where from the Peloponnisos to Delphi)...vendors have tables set up where you can buy literally 50 different kinds of olives and most of them are good.

The time frame is the same as when I did it and the weather was perfect!


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## chrondi (Mar 24, 2004)

Dear aaidonnow,
It is obvious that without any yacht experience you will not be able to sail on any boat and/or have fun close to what you have read or imagined. Let me give you some tips:
1. At least one of the sailing party has to possess a day skipper or higher qualification certificate.
2. Do not plan for more than a 300 M route to sail during a two-week time. A leisure pace means up to 30 M daily. In practical terms, don''t try to go beyond Ios. Forget about going as far as Crete: you will be exhausted and you don''t have enough time to come back. On the other hand, Crete is not interesting from a sailing point of view.
3. More probable than not you will encounter at some degree the dreadful meltemi wind. To play it safe and get to know your boat, at the beginning keep to the Saronic gulf islands (Aegina, Poros and Hydra). You can then cross over to the western Cyclades (Kythnos, Serifos, Sifnos). Avoid beating to the NW direction when sailing in the Agean. Return to your base marina by using the E-W axis while reaching, from Sifnos or Serifos to the southern tip of Hydra (a 45 M leg).
4. Get inspiration and ideas from the log of an experienced sailor at the following website: http://www.sy-thetis.org/
5. I suggest you consider roughly the following sailing route: Marina Kalamaki - Aegina - Poros - Apokrisi Kythnos - Livadi Serifos - Vathy Sifnos - Despotiko Antiparos - Schinoussa - Ios and back through Hydra (according to above point 3).
5. If you had more experience and knew local conditions in advance, you would arrange an exhilarating one-way trip from Athens to Rhodes. Never mind, maybe next time!
Ask for specific questions and I''m ready to provide you with answers, because I have already visited nearly all the islands in the region. Furthermore, I have no financial or commercial interest in the yacht chartering or tourist business!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Chrondi is right. You do have time to get bareboat certified though. Call a sailing school and get started soon!


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## aaidonnow (Mar 16, 2005)

Hmmmm, well ... the boat isn''t chartered yet, but we were planning to do this in the next week(s). So the one-way trip to Rhodes is still possible. We would like to charter with Fyly. Anyone knows whether they charge an extra fee for a one-way trip?

And ... are you really sure we need a bareboat charter certificate? ´cause on their website you ''only'' have to prove you can sail and control this boat. So maybe buying a book to know the rules on the sea, and for the practical thing relying on our sailing experience(catamaran(hobie cat, nacra), 420, Vaurien, Caravelle, Cigogne) will do the trick?

I really hope this won''t give us any trouble, ''cause none of us has time to get this certificate until the end of June.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

This is a perfect example of why people get hurt and cause such mayhem and disaster in our harbors during the summer season.
Greek brokers letting these yahoos take a yacht out into some of the most unfriendly waters in the Aegean.
Lets see: they have:-
NO SAILING QUALIFICATIONS, NO LICENSE, NO LOWER CREW LICENSE...ETC
NO V.H.F LICENSE AND MOST LIKELY HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO OPERATE A GDMSS VHF SYSTEM.
NO FIRST AID CERTIFICATE, SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ONE OF THEM GETS HIT ON THE HEAD WITH THE BOOM OR CATCHES HIS HAND IN A WINCH???

In order for A professional Captain to take out a bare boat with guests he must have all of the above.
But when you just want to rent a bareboat and do not want a Professional Captain, its OK to just have ''SAILING EXPERIENCE''.....
Come on this is total bullshit!!


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## chrondi (Mar 24, 2004)

I''m afraid you don''t realize the dangers and risks. In the Agean, winds blow by gusts well above force 6 and certainly the sailing area is not suitable for sailors without ANY EXPERIENCE on how to handle a boat in different situations, including berthing. Let me state that this shows a total lack of the sense of responsibility!
Are you joking my friend or what?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

And chartering from Fyly, Geez those guys will charter a yacht to any one, as long as you can cloud a mirror and prove you are a live you can charter a yacht, regardless of your sailing experience....Oh yeah they are responsible Greek Brokers!!... they are the biggest culprits letting all sized yachts go out on a ''Sailing Experinece Form'', and oh yeah they have great 24 hr service, so when you crack up the yacht or hit some one in these crowded harbors they can come and rescue your ass!!


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## fyly (Jul 25, 2003)

We at FYLY yachting regard ourselves as a responsible company which follows the Greek law and not the requirements of any "Sailmaster". For the 2005 season the Greek law regarding chartering is that the skipper of the yacht must have their original license with them or an authorized letter from their sailing club (this is for the countries that do not issue sailing licenses). To inform all the readers on this site, the port authorities have the final word not any company! Two years ago, the Greek port authorities accepted the "Sailing Experience form". This was published on our site which has been removed once the Greek law changed. It is also clearly stated on our website in the FAQ section what the requirements are to charter a bareboat, and is the first question which is addressed.

In addition, there is not one insurance company which would cover any damages by the skipper if they are not licensed. Which company would allow their yachts’ on charter with the risk of loosing thousand of Euros worth of damages during the season?

The fact that someone has requested to charter a yacht and does not fulfill the requirements stated by the Greek authorities does not mean that we accept this.

FYLY TEAM

P.S. The characterization made by Sailmaster reveals his ethics and quality of person which he is!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well my first reaction to Fyly would be to have them post a list of countries that do not issue Recreational sailing licenses. To my knowledge certainly all the EU Countries do and certainly the North American countries, Perhaps Upper Volta in Africa does not? So there is no excuse for not having an orginal saling license. 
As to a letter from a sailing club, well I guess we all have one of those, from MS Word Sailing Club. Unfortunately Fyly is gulity of exploiting the system. If they where going to be honest about this then they would also explain that it is a requirement that when clients who shows up and say they can handle a yacht are put though a test prior to departure to indicate to the charter company that they can indeed handle the yacht.
Normally this would involve leaving the marina berth with proceeding outside in to the bay hoisting the sails, tacking the boat, running the boat, reefing the boat, anchoring the yacht and performing a MOB. then return the yacht to the marina berth. The reality is they do not do this despite it being a requirement with most insurance companies and I beleive the Port police. Definately a requirement form the private owners they lease the yachts from. Fyly''s comment about what insurance companies would let all this go on is some waht pathetic, the insurance companies in this country are in absolute uproar about all the damage that does go on, just drive around the boat yard and take a look 98%of damage in the yard is as a result of bareboat damage. We pay the highest rates in europe because of this. Would the insurance companies like a bigger say in things ? Of course but the greek beauocracy prevents that from happening, letting the whole thing falling on a self policing system and Don''t get the impression that FYly owns thousands of yacht they do''nt!! So they are not paying the incredible high insurance costs boat owners do .
Perhaps they own one or two but the rest they lease/borrow from other owners/charter companies, so quite hoestly what the hell do they care? As long as they get there 30% commission then they are happy... after all its all about the commission right!!charter the yacht for what you can, take your commission 30% and what ever is left goes to the owner, sometimes the amount is pathetic. Hence the pressure to let these yachts work as much as possible with what ever client shows up!!
So why do they not run a Yacht Handling test on bare boaters like they do in the Carribean, or other charter areas, when the client shows up with a letter from his yacht club?
Well quite simply it would take too long, and on your check in day you do not get on the yacht until sometimes after 1pm or later. By the time you do all this, get a run down on the yacht and do the last minute paper work any chance of leaving the marina in day light has gone. Oh did''nt they mention that little contract hicup! No Bare boat charter yacht can be in transit after hours of dusk , ie dark! So bang goes your first day of charter still tied to the dock in Athens.

So they skip the captains test and out go the charter clients in too the Greek islands and harbors. Watching the newbie bare boat charters trying to anchor stern too in Poros or any other harbor is endless entertainment.It''s obivous that they have no clue how to safely anchor the yacht, stern to the quay. The most common damage is transom crunch, where the yacht bangs the quay when passing ferries create a swell...or they just don''nt lay out enough anchor and hit the dock...

What Fyly also did not mention is that now along with a valid recreational sailing license, the skipper will also have to have a vaild VHF operators license, (new 2005), Ok it is going to be fazed in , in typical greek style, but the fact remains you should have one, so how will you get around that one ?

Will we see a Fyly form saying that the client can operate a VHF and knows what to do in time of emergency?..... Pull the GDMSS switch and shout for help, or just dial 1-800-Fyly on your cell phone and ask to speak to the 24 hr crisis center.....as you sink below the beautiful blue sea!!


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## chrondi (Mar 24, 2004)

I''m afraid that this thread degenerates again into a fight about good chartering practices and possible frauds committed and negligence shown by some Greek chartering companies. Enough is said and written about this subject and certainly our novice friend aaidonnow is not helped by the year 2005 rehearsal of the same old play. The question of safety at sea is not to be taken lightheartedly because it can have dire consequences with liabilities for third parties. The universal drill described by “sailmaster” is part of the “International Certificate of Competence” test which to my knowledge is applied and enforced in Europe only by SPAIN for chartering purposes. Nevertheless, dangerous at sea can be not only unexperienced charterers but also (and more so because they think that damage is only at their own expense) unexperienced boat owners, particularly, to my personal experience, MOTOR BOAT skippers, certainly not because of lack of appropriate certificates but mere reckless behaviour! So now welcome back to the main point: whoever thinks that having sailed (even extensively) on dingies is able to handle a 36 ft. yacht in unpredictable, gusty, well above force 6 and ever changing wind direction conditions is qualified, to my view, as reckless. The Aegean is not for novice yacht or book-learning sailors and inexperienced night navigators. Every yacht chartering company will confirm that sailing is not for “mathitevomenous magous” (apprenti sorcier in french) and you don''t need a law to replace COMMON SENSE.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

interesting how things never change in greece ? its still the best place to charter a yacht, the cheapest, has the best sailing and requires the least qualifications....
so what is every one complaining about?
Try doing all that in england....


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## ionian (Mar 31, 2005)

spot on sailmaster! would the non experienced
charterer let a pure novice car driver borrow
his car for two weeks!!!
I `m fed up with idiots who cant even put a mooring rope on damaging ours and other yachts.
get some training first and then charter.A good halway house for learners is to sail on a flotilla in more sheltered waters like the
Ionian.


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