# Getting help sailing new boat without losing face



## glimmerglasspeg (Aug 6, 2009)

Hi, I've just jointed sailnet. I need help, and this seems to be the place to go!

I have limited, very old, sailing experience (2 summers at a sailing camp on the Cape in the 60's (anyone remember Quanset?), plus limited lake sailing in upstate NY.).

I am very lucky - significant other has a place on the water in Maine, and has just acquired a boat. 30 years ago his parents also had a boat in front of his place, and they took significant overnight sails on theirs. Now we have a 29' Catalina, it is finally moored out front, but frankly, he needs some training, more than the books he reads, and his old, limited experience. He picks things up pretty quickly, but really needs a very good mentor.

I have had enough to know that we do not have sufficient experience to sail this boat ourselves, especially along the coast of Maine. It also was acquired without first having a survey, and problems have shown up with the boat's engine, lights, plumbing, you name it. There is no way this boat could be used for any overnights - so far just for sailing around the bay. The problems are getting addressed slowly, but first and foremost, even the day sailing we've done shows us we could get into trouble.

Significant other has resisted my suggestions to get training. A friend of the previous owner "helped" us sail the boat to our current location, but it's obvious he also has limited experience, is frankly more of a liability than a help, and just using the opportunity for some free sailing. We are right next to a yacht club, but it has been suggested it will take another year to get through the waiting list.

I see forum listings for crew. I'd love to find someone familiar with our boat to help guide the way, do occasional daysails. How do I do this without causing significant other to lose face? Also, does one pay crew?

This is supposed to be a new beginning to another part of a great relationship, but so far it has only alienated us.

Thanks for getting us on the right track! I hope I haven't said or asked anything offensive. That is exactly what I'm trying to avoid, while staying safe.

Peg


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## doubleeboy (Jul 21, 2008)

Peg,

You might try heading down to the local Sail Loft, North, or other, and ask them if they know of anyone who could help you. Most employees in sail lofts are avid sailors and pretty well hooked into the local sailing community. Like wise, if there is a marine supply store, like West Marine, the manager might know of some people who do sailing instruction. You could also try the Coast Guard Auxiliary, or local community college, or Power Squadron.

Its quite possible that someone here could help you out. There is nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about in needing guidance and instruction. I would offer to help but am on wrong coast.

michael


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## rikhall (Feb 7, 2008)

*there is help around*

Peg

There are lots of people around who can probably help.

Yes, you can "pay" for help, but getting involved with a local club, Power Squadron (USPS) or others is very good. Offering to take a beginners boat course together - both of you going might be a good start.

He might "rationalize" that he already knows it but is going along to be with you. Hey - whatever works, right?

Linda has taken every Power Squadron course I have taken (about ten by now - taken together) and in addition to having learned a whole bunch - we have met some fantastic people.

Best of luck.

Where in Maine is the boat?

Rik


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Reluctant to ask for local help?
Understandable. That happened to us.

So we went way far away to a sailing school. Had a great time, learned a whole lot, and came back ready to sail our boat.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

*Try some racing*

Hi Peg you are very wise to seek help in re-learning to sail. Based on the problems you already have maintenance wise with the new boat, you can tell owning and captaining a 29' boat is different than crewing four your parents or sailing a dingy at camp.

A couple of suggestions to improve your sailing skills

Try Racing OPB (other peoples boats)
This is how I got most of my sailing experience. You will see and participate with some impressive boat handling skills not possessed by your average cruiser, which you can take to your own boat. There will also be a lot of sailors around after the race in the yacht club where you will likely meet someone willing to go out with you on your boat. You can post something at the marina, yacht clubs or yacht clubs website saying you are willing to crew. On a windy night boats will pick up extra crew just to sit on the rail. Just walking the dock an hour or so before the race and ask if boats need crew will get you onboard a boat usually.

Post a sign "Need experienced crew" at Yacht Clubs, Sail Lofts, Web sites. The average racing boat has a crew of 3-8 and only a few of the participants have their own boat, so there are a lot of very experienced sailors looking for any opportunity to get out on a boat. If you provide lunch and beer you might get a lot of repeat offers of help sailing. It would be good to have some able bodied crew for your boat while re-learning how to sail.

Power Squadron, USCG, and ASA courses would also be a good start.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

In San Francisco we have several on line crew lists (i.e., Latitude 38), and I assume Maine must as well. I used the lists to go sailing before I had a boat. When I bought the boat, I used the list to get experienced crew to help me. My title was " Bought a boat, need someone to show me how to sail it! In fact, I had a pretty good knowledge of sailing, having been an avid windsurfer and kayaker and sailing via the crew list, but was apprehensive about motoring a 5 ton boat in close quarters. I posted that the crew could bring some guests, but someone in the group had to have significant experience. Met some great people and learned a lot (though, I found out I knew more than I realized). I would encourage you to have the boat inspected by a knowledgeable person. If the boat isn't sound mechanically, any amount of experience may not be enough to help you if you get in a bad situation.


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## glimmerglasspeg (Aug 6, 2009)

*Great ideas*

Hi, all,

Thanks so much for these ideas. I lost my way back to this forum, and finally after a half hour search last night, found you all again.

We were also tied up with other summer plans, and at the same time, our boat suffered some storm damage, which may/may not have been avoided with some more experience/common sense.

Unfortunately one of the issues we're also dealing with is someone who "crews" occasionally and is a new "friend", and knows all the techno goodies, even teaches a course on navigating. However, his knowledge seems very limited as well he is dead weight on the boat, he can't respond to questions, and is being relied on too heavily by sig other.

I thought the damage sustained by the boat was very unfortunate, but hopefully a good lesson learned. After another row about this last night, it's apparent it wasn't and I plan on implementing any or all of your above suggestions. We were looking into courses, but I also thought having someone on our boat with knowledge of her kind, or being on another similar boat would be a great example of how to do it right. I'm tired of being blamed for being too "scared" to do this. I'm capable novice crew, have no problem with someone in charge who has a handle on this, but not looking forward to sailing up the coast on multi-day cruises with the status quo. You've all given me something to move foward with. Thanks!


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## fendertweed (Apr 4, 2003)

remember the real problem is not knowing what you don't know ... that could be part of the hurdle w/ the sig other and the reluctance to seek help/ thinking you're "afraid" (?) ... 

in my experience moving up from day sailing 16-19 foot sloops to owning/single handing a Pearson 26, key elements are : 1) there are no stupid questions; 2) as you noted you have to kind of suss out the reliability of your "advisors" or "teachers", to know who knows what they're talking about; 3) the extra margin of safety is always worth the occasional disappointment when you take the conservative approach and then see that you didn't need to (come in early, fix this thing, do that, etc.); 4) a lot of the learning is just trial and error and a few bumps (as when I said to my friend the PO of Catalyst "how the heck do you get this thing (5,600 lbs. worth) in & out of the slip on your own?" (w/ wind & tide, etc.) -- and the answer was "trial & error: we haven't broken anything yet."

Good luck!
Jon


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## PCP777 (Apr 7, 2009)

First off, don't worry about saving face. It's sailing and at one time we were all just getting going.

The others here have some terrific advice.

I too took over a twenty year break from sailing ( I used to race 420's and lasers at tabor Academy and had some keel boat experience as a kid sailing with my dad in LI. ) and before I bought my Catalina 25 I bought a little 12' Escape Captiva and sailed it for a season in the bay to get my chops back. I found it was much like riding a bicycle, it's amazing how it all comes back. I did this for a year and then this year bought the C-25. Honestly, the toughest part of keel boat sailing for me was getting in and out of the marina and slip with the motor. If you're boat is moored then the greatest part of the battle doesn't even need to be fought IMHO.

If your bay is big enough stay in it, use less sail area than you need and keep it simple. The biggest dangers are weather, hitting other boats or running aground. remember, she can only sink once.  Keep your sailing plan simple. If you venture out of the bay, stay well within sight of land and stay on top of weather. On a light wind day, like 5 to 10 knts, it's pretty hard to get in trouble on a sailboat and you have the chance to learn from your mistakes. If everything goes wrong, fire up the motor and then pull the sails down.

Another thing I've done is I've been crewing every Wednesday in the beer can races which has provided a wealth of information.

Have a real guest skipper on board, find someone who *has* a C 30 or something comparable and let them show you the ropes, not someone who "thinks" they know how to sail. Probably all you'd need to do is buy the beer, I know I'd go for that. I've had a couple guest skippers on my boat when I tried to race her and when we first flew the spinnaker.

Honestly, I'm completely comfortable sailing my boat and I just bought her in March. Once the sails are up and you're underway, there's not much to it.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Peg don't feel bad.. there are people that pay 3-400K $ for boats but won't spring the few hundred for lessons! It's a guy thing. only a guy could explain I guess! A c29 should be pretty easy to sail but if it's not set up right it will difficult even with crew. 
If your new using computers, and want to get back here quick you will find a button near the top left of the screen. "favorites (or bookmarks) " click on that and at the top of that window is "add to favorites" click on it and it will save any web page you happen to have open. 

good luck.. Maine is a wonderful place to be.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

If you feel uncomfortable? Why don't you take lessons without him? Most of the time when someone is uncomfortable on a boat. It's because they feel as if they have no control. Take it upon yourself to get lessons. Maybe once he sees you have signed up. He will join too, but take the lessons seperately!......*i2f*


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## mikeshepard (Dec 29, 2002)

Hi Peg. All good advice. Get over 'losing face'...counseling or whatever it takes. Yep, it is a 'man' thing but 'face' and big male egos abound in the sailing community and can move from stupid to dangerous if things take a sudden swing for the worse...weather etc.

Get the motor, lights etc in top working shape and start using the boat as a power boat only at first. Practice all the simple stuff like line tossing to hang a dock cleat, knots, docking and undocking and do it all SLOWLY. Learn the power of neutral. A very slowly drifting boat can 'hit' the dock without any damage. Practice picking up moorings til you are so good at it that you look forward to it. You drive the boat and make ego-man pick up the mooring. Same with the docking. When you develop these simple skills to a 'T' you will be better than most boaters and have self confidence to move on up to whatever level you choose.

Good luck and happy motoring/sailing.

mike in Islamorada, FL Keys


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## glimmerglasspeg (Aug 6, 2009)

*Moving forward*

Again, thanks for everyone's input.

Since I'm so new, I couldn't PM, and wanted to ask Selkirk the following, but will post it here to all of you...

"We are still struggling with what we can do, and about learning without losing face, but at least agree that a sailing school is a great idea.

We're looking to fly down to Key West or other possibles in Florida within the next couple of months - where did you go? Can you recommend any places?

Thanks for your help again"

Thanks to everyone.

Peggy


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

(do two more posts and you will be able to use the PM system...just say thanks twice).

I teach the full curiclum at a New England school and would be willing to do a few days on your own boat...see your PM...or email me.


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## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

When I went for lessons, and they asked what I already knew, I said, "I know my name." Much better to make mistakes in lessons. Take them if he won't. Then, when the wind gusts and he's hiding in the cabin cryin' for momma, you can step in and save the day.


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## jstroup (Sep 11, 2007)

Peg,

Lots of good suggestions.

I'm a big fan of taking classes, at least at the start to learn the correct, efficient, safe and occasionally easy way to do things. I also think having successful sails builds confidence. 

I think its clear that both of you are in over your heads and I think you both should take lessons at the same school but hopefully in different classes/sessions. Being in separate classes gives you the opportunity to take command and/or make mistakes without him getting in the way.

I know that sailing season is winding down in Maine so maybe you want to consider taking a class during the winter in some warmer climate. Make a vacation of it and learn to sail at the same time.

judie


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## seadaddler (Dec 23, 2006)

*Lessons*

Lessons is a great idea and can't hurt just help make you a better sailor.
I had been sailing sunfish and Hobie's for alot of years but when we bought
our first 29 keel boat my wife made me promise to take a week of sailing lesson's on our new boat.
It was a great idea because we learned how every thing worked on our new Hunter 290 and my wife how to sail and enjoy sailing so much more,we now have a 36 which I single hand all the time it is new and easy to sail but thinking of sending the wife for sailing lesson's again to refresh her sailing skills.
Have fun and lesson's are only the beginning of learning to handling your boat,you need more time out sailing your boat to really get good at it for cruising which is more learning,have fun and enjoy.


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## dongreerps (May 14, 2007)

The idea of sailing school is excellent. There are lots to choose from. At least consider the school on North Sound in the BVI. There are also regularly scheduled classes for ladies only. Some real advantages for you in yur situation. A further thought is to consider taking a week-10 day bare boat charter in the Virgin Islands with an instructor/captain. 
Even though your neighboring yacht club has a waiting list, I would encourage you to find out when they schedule races, and on those days just show up, asking if anyone needs help or crew. This is a real win/win situation. They need crew, and you need sailing experience.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Peg, we made a mini-vacation out of sailing school, so I think your idea of a school in Florida is a good one.

That said, I assume you're getting ready to pull the boat for the winter by now (if you haven't already). Wait and schedule your sailing school close to when you plan to put her back in the water in the spring. The sooner you're on the boat and putting the lessons into practice, the less you'll have forgotten and the more comfortable you'll be.

I'm sure there are a lot of good sailing schools in Florida. I've heard good things about the Offshore Sailing School though I haven't taken classes with them. Their web site is Sailing Schools | Colgate Offshore Sailing School and they offer beginners courses.

Best of Luck,
Jim


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd point out that couples should generally take sailing lessons separately rather than jointly. They tend to learn more that way.


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## elfLogos (Jan 24, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> I'd point out that couples should generally take sailing lessons separately rather than jointly. They tend to learn more that way.


 I don't know...my DH and I took all our sailing classes together, and it worked out great for us, because the instructor rotated the roles around, so everyone on the boat was just a student, not a spouse. It also helped in that we could study together and discuss things from the books, the sail we took that day, quiz each other, etc. When we took our liveaboard classes, it was nice to be able to share a cabin too!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

While that may have worked for you, it is pretty common that it doesn't work that well for most couples. Besides, IMHO, you and your partner will have plenty of time to discuss things as you sail together... making sure that each of you has a sufficient foundation to work with is more important than spending the few days the classes will take together.



elfLogos said:


> I don't know...my DH and I took all our sailing classes together, and it worked out great for us, because the instructor rotated the roles around, so everyone on the boat was just a student, not a spouse. It also helped in that we could study together and discuss things from the books, the sail we took that day, quiz each other, etc. When we took our liveaboard classes, it was nice to be able to share a cabin too!


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## elfLogos (Jan 24, 2010)

The other thing, though, is that in all cases our sailing classes were pretty far from home. We live in NC, and went to schools in Florida and Charleston. These provided vacation opportunities for the two of us in addition to school. We wouldn't travel that far from home without each other, and it would have been more expensive to arrange classes separately.

Everyone is different, but I know a lot of couples who plan to sail and/or cruise together, as we do, do fine taking classes at the same time -- every couple is different. Having one spouse teach the other to sail is another matter _entirely_, but in our case, we were both equally newbies to the whole sailing thing, so classes together were the most efficient way to go.


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