# full time cruising insurance ??



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi all,

Please can you advise what you personally do re insurance for full time live-aboard cruising ?. (2 adults)

I want the flexibility to go anywhere.. are we gonna have to bite the bullet and do without ??.. can you get ''third party only'' ??

J & J


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Could prob go without unless you have a boat real expensive. I hate insurance, like life insurance, people take out life insurance when there young, i think its a waste of money, just throw me in the woods, ocean, trash i dont care, i will be dead.


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## Augustan (Sep 11, 2003)

Jeffamc,

From all your other posts it seems you hate everything!!

I suppose you don''t like insurance because it is a product of facsist, faceless multinational corporations..........or some such rantings like that!!

I actually like the idea of at least being able to insure my boat for damage it may do to other boats. At the moment I have full insurance as I''m still tied to my home waters (job, mortgage and other such responsibilities)

It''s better than just saying to the other boat owner "Oh well sorry mate, I don''t have any money to pay for the damage I did to your lovely boat.......you''ll just have to sue me for money I don''t have anyway!!"

Do you plan driving a car without so much as third party insurance? I''m sure glad I live 12,000 miles away from you!!

I do however agree with you on one point.....they can do what they want with me when I''m dead. No point wasting good money on fancy caskets and ceremony etc.

One more thing.....it''s "The System" that does actually allow people to go do things such as cruising. Think about this and how you can use this to your advantage without, of course, bludging off others.

Darren
S/V Augustan
Sydney, Australia


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## kokopelli9 (Aug 16, 2002)

Is anyone else tired of this kid hijacking the board to whine and gripe about how miserable life is for him? He has problems and is not wise enough to know it yet or how to correct them. I think he is lonely and wants to be heard, but I am really tired of the content.
Maybe if we quit feeding his distorted ego by responding, he will grow tired and move onto another board for his rantings. If he wishes to better himself he will read Stede''s post to him and take heed.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Insurance:

Life, Health or Boat?

Life: Actually a term GE policy for $250,000 each (cost: $72 a quarter, each)and a whole life policy from CU for $250,000 each (cost: $80 a month, each). Health, a PHCP type for $400 a month (family of 4) with a low deductible. Boat, Allstate at $500 a year for a $65,000 hull value. 

Jeff: Doesn''t know anything yet. My CU policy at this point (10 years into it) pays for it''s own, everything else is earning 5% (small, but considering the past few years, out-earned many of my other investments). 

Insurance isn''t needed if you don''t value your boat, health or life. Jeff doesn''t, yet. He doesn''t have a boat, he''s young and hasn''t sailed beyond the horizon (if at all). I have kids, if something happens to me, at LEAST at $500,000 will get them through college (Yes jeffy, these 11 and 12 year olds already know they''re college bound and they want to have jobs that help others). 

Insurance, my young friend, is playing the odds. If I live, then they get ME, and I pay for all that stuff. If something happens to me, the STILL get through school and then some, my way of giving if I''m not around. Either way, they are taken care of. I''m not some old fart Jeff, I''m 40. 

Same with the boat. A nice little hurricane is coming down on us right now. It''s track is currently RIGHT ON US. Do I care? Nope, I''ll just head inland with my crew (family). Screw the boat, it''s just a boat. It''s insured.

How can I shell out this money for insurance? I WENT TO COLLEGE AND DON''T HAVE TO WORK THAT HARD ANYMORE. Jeff, pay your dues and THEN goof off, like me. Otherwise you''ll spend your whole life explaining to people how you live your life the way you want to, while washing dishes and scrubbing grout. I have washed dishes and scrubbed grout (in high school) so I know of what I speak.

But for all his bravado, Jeff is just like us at his age (he won''t admit it, I''m sure) a scared kid trying to figure out what is next. By pretending to be ABOVE it, he thinks he won''t have to stoop to the depths of actually working for a living and building something (and being accepted!!! being able to do it!!!).

Jeff, we''ve all been there. Finish school, you''ll be fine. If your half as smart as you pretend to be, then you''ll find it''s actually a cake-walk and you won''t have to hide from it. 

G''luck.

(p.s. i know jeff is from a generation that just likes to type on BBs and get responses, but that''s OK, it''s his way to generate feedback. it''s OUR generation that invented it, he''s just living in that world now. the question is, will he get his kicks from typing and pretending, or will he buy a boat and go SAIL!. Then he''ll know that feeling when the wind pops the main and the boat surges forward.)


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## tsenator (Nov 6, 2000)

Jeffamc -- have a young child that depends on you and you''d feel different about life insurance. If you''re single and nobody depends on you, then I agree.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

About health insurance, well most desease can actually be prevented. If you look at the causes of health problems-
Cancer- Tobacco and eating unhealthy are the most common causes.
Heart problems- eating unhealthy, no excersise are most common.
Diabites- alcohol, eating unhealthy are most common. ect,ect,ect
well that Howard Dean supposenly promises if he gets ellected as president to provide free health care for all Americans.
Life insurance- like someone eles said, if you dont have children it dont matter much. Sharks need to eat just as much as the bugs do...
I noticed someone said "the system allows us to do things like cruise" but how is that? I thought people having been using boats for approx. 7000 years in Egypt is the oldest evidence archeologists could find. The "system" does make it somewhat harder to live for people because of the class system,ect people have to pay for just about everything, it takes us away from a "natural" life. On MSNBC a second ago i saw a man that got arrested for living in a national forest for more then 14 days(he was in a cave drinking rain water for 11 years). They just seem to make everything harder, and you need money for food, or anything. You can just wander around with no money or you will die, in the Amazon Rain forest i guess you could live with native americans, but even that is getting smaller and smaller because poor Brazilian farmers need land.


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## eds928gt (Sep 28, 2001)

Jeff:

I''d be the first to say I was wrong if you wind up living a full and rewarding life the way you say it can be done. I know it can be done, but very few (probably less that 1%) can do it.

Insurance is a necessary evil for those of us who consider ourselves responsible for the well-being of others. Others have mentioned life insurance and boat-owner''s insurance. I will mention health insurance.

Health insurance does more than mitigate the costs of contracting a desease. It also helps reduce the costs associated with accidents, like falling off a mast or getting burned or nearly drowning. There are situations on a boat that you cannot possibly foresee that can occur to you that will put you out of action, perhaps for a long time. Not having health insurance will most likely mean you''ll be treated at a willing hospital at the expense of the local citizens. Do you really want to be a burdern on society? Wouldn''t you rather be a contributor to society instead of a burden?

As you have pointed out, you have nothing, so you have nothing to lose. Perhaps that will be your situation till you die. However, perhaps someday you''ll meet someone that you''ll want to care for, and maybe have a family. If and when that happens, I think you''ll realize that all of us old-boat foggies were right.

Here''s the best part. You are at the cross-road of finishing H.S. or not. If you decide to finish it, you can still live the life you seem to prefer, but at least you''ll have that diploma. If you decide to drop-out, you''ll have no choice except to live that lifestyle. Many years down the road, you may find you made the wrong choice, and it will be much, much harder to rectify the situation.

However, as I said once before, "The world needs ditch-diggers too." Hope you have a strong back and that your health holds up.

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

yea, so many people are going to college, the world needs ditch-diggers so i will help society out by being one. Or i guess i could be a lab rat for a scientist, i could be a sperm donor, fast food, or i guess i could just move to a third world country and work at a sweat shop for american big buisness.


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## rogerleslie (Apr 15, 2001)

Jeffamc


PLEEEEEEASE - NOT A SPERM DONOR.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

And lets get back to boat insurance for a second. Unless you have your $40,000 for your boat in cash, your bank will require you have insurance, both hull and liability. 

OK, so you''ve dug a few ditches and earned your boat money, so no loan. What do you think will happen if you drag your anchor in a storm and smash into a megayacht. The damages might cost you your boat. Period. 

Or if someone hurts themself on your boat? 

I rather enjoy cruising, I do not want to loose what I''ve worked for by some mishap. That''s one reason I have insurance.


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## Stede (Jun 13, 2002)

Jeffamc,

I’m not going to try and explain to you why you need insurance. Nor am I going to try and explain to you why you don’t want to live with the Aborigines in South America, or any of the other rhetoric you’ve posted on this board. I think you really understand these things. What I don’t think you understand, is that the people of this board will eventually tire of this charade of nonsense, and just start ignoring you. You’ve become the Foster child of the Sailnet bulletin board. Almost everyone here has taken you in at one time or another in an effort to help you. I looked up your name, and I noticed that you’re not a member here. So why do you come? Are you a sailor, or just someone that doesn’t have anything better to do than get high, and sit around typing on your computer hoping that someone will talk with you? You don’t contribute anything meaning full here. This is our world and right now you don’t even pay rent in it. Why should the good people of this board waste their time on you? Whether you want to admit it or not, you and I live in the greatest country on Earth. The opportunities are boundless here. I’ve seen the eyes light up at the mention of being from the United States to people abroad. They know it too. Yet, here you are in the land of “milk and honey” whining about how bad everything is. Rather than being a player in this world, you’ve chosen to sit on the bench writing in the sand with a stick. I learned a long time ago that you can’t help people that don’t want to be helped. From this day forward, I encourage you to come to the table as a man seeking to learn and grow, or don’t come at all.


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## Jonathan316 (Aug 5, 2003)

Is it just me, or do all questions about insurance on SailNet seem degrade this way? I have been fascinated by the appearant lack of insurance -- or even interest in it -- amongst the cruising community. When I''ve asked about insurance and its costs, I seem to get giggles and head shakes. What am I missing here folks?

Let''s see: I sell my house and primary possessions (and cancel all the insurance on them) and roll it all into a $150,000 cruiser''s dream. I head south to the Caribbean and end up at a mooring outside the BVI. Late one night a drunken wacko on a 30 footer who never even passed ASA 101 does a perfect t-bone into my hull, firmly embedding a junior bow pulpit into my galley. Or I go ashore for a relaxing day of unbridled debauchery and return to find an empty mooring... sigh... Or while I''m gone the mooring snaps and I return to -my- bow pulpit embedded in the shiny new hull of a $2.5 million pseudo-sailor''s yacht. 

No insurance?? Huh?? How can you cruise with all your worldly possessions on your back and not want to CYA? I just don''t get this part at all... Sure, the realities of a cruising budget can bite anybody in the "real world" - but this part I just do not get.

I have yet to find an ->un-financed<- cruiser who can tell me what to budget for insurance on a $125k-$150k sailboat in the less-than-decade-old category. $50 monthly? $150 monthly? $500 monthly? The return question seems to always be "How much is financed? - that will determine the insurance level required".

I do not want to finance my dream, I just want to cover my aging butt from the negligence of myself and others.

So please: after the giggles subside can anyone who might actually have empathy for that perspective tell me how much to budget or how much they pay insurance? Anyone offering a valid response involving dollar signs will be cordially invited to join the debauchery at some point in the future (grin).

Jonathan
Obsessive Cruiser in Training


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## bob-m (Oct 30, 2002)

Jonathan

Do a search for "insurance" on this BB. The subject has been covered several times and you will find some good recommendations.

Sorry that I can not give exact numers (I''ve been on the hard for 2 years) but if memory serves me correctly we paid A little under $2000 per yr. for a boat valued at $120K. 

Why do so many not carry insurance? Remember, alot of people who "drop everything and go now" are trying to escape. Reality doesn''t always enter into the equation. My wife and I cruised for 12 years and always caried medical and vessel insurance. When you get out there you will find that those who properly maintain their vessels, sail responsibly, and had their financial affairs in order before they left, usually carry insurance.
Hope this helps

bob-m


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## kokopelli9 (Aug 16, 2002)

Well said,Stede...I for one have grown very tired of having to "weed" through Jeff''s whines to get to some true sailing info of value.
As I said the other day...can we just ignore the kid and let him find another place to whine.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Having or not having insurance depends, I think, on how much risk you can tolerate. My first boat HAD to be insured because of the bank loan, my second boat wasn''t and we were mentally prepared to deal with the consequences. Also, we did not stay in marinas, many or most of which require insurance for any lengthy stay, so it was a cost we did not build into the budget.

Current boat IS insured with a policy that doesn''t limit our location because of hurricane season. We do stay at marinas a lot, and are NOT willing to "sail bare"...as someone mentioned, we are concerned about damage to other boats that we may be liable for, and want to be covered.

I guess one question to ask in making the decision is whether or not you could recover financially from either losing the boat or being liable for extensive damage to another''s vessel. If you could, maybe go bare (unless you want to stay in marinas a lot). If not, find a policy that fits your needs.

Trish
www.takehersailing.com


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Actually J, I did give you a number.

$500 a year on a $65,000 hull value.

But anyones numbers are going to be meaningless. If you want a REAL figure, call up your insurance agent. I didn''t use my agent, as I found better rates with Allstate.

Call them and ask for an estimate. It''s that simple.


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## Jonathan316 (Aug 5, 2003)

Thanks Bob. That was right on the money for me and the ''escape'' perspective explains more than just this situation that did not "tie together" for me. Does now!

Jonathan


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## mcain (Jun 13, 2003)

I think everyone is right--insurance discussions do degenerate. 
To get back to the initial question, (and there have been other postings in the past), I have found that IMIS has good rates and terms, and it looks like about 1.5% of the value of the boat is the annual premium. Or ballpark $1800 for a $120K boat. Varies depending on deductible, insurance company, geographic region covered, etc. I have checked two sources--IMIS and BoatUS (can''t get south of Turks & Caicos, however, with BoatUS), at similar premiums. For us, insurance is strictly for catastrophic loss. But any loss over $100K would put a real dent in our lifestyle...........
We are also going for high-deductible health insurance. The premiums go up as your age goes up. Same theory and same reason--for catastrophic problems.
These two expenses seem like one of the largest differences in cruising budgets. It seems to me that people who quote $1000 per month or less typically don''t have either insurance cost, and those who quote $1500 or more usually have at least one, or both. It looks to me, IMHO, that the $500 per month delta represents those two insurance costs, and perhaps life insurance as well.
In the end, it is a personal decision.


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## rogerleslie (Apr 15, 2001)

There is an article in Blue Water Sailing title: "INSURANCE FOR CRUISERS" that may be of some help. http://www.bwsailing.com/


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well this really has been quite a heated subject.

Bottom line is that there is no right and wrong. If you can afford it do it - if you can''t or don''t want to then don''t - but don''t complain when it all goes wrong. You get what you pay for which can include peace of mind on the way.

There is a significant increase in insurance once you sail over the horizon though and that is what I thought this post was initially all about. I guess it depends on how YOU assess the risks compared to the company who offers the cover. No magic there.

Insurance is also becoming increasingly expensive so that only makes the decision process harder. For most of us though who no longer hanker for that far horizon local insurance is still worthwhile.

Johnno


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

If talking about health insurance the Oct issue of Blue Water Sailing Magazine has an article about international health insurance aimed at the cruisers travelling o/s
John (Fitzy)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I''ve got a 1980 37'' Irwin sailboat and got it insured thru Allstate. For $30,000 with a $1,000 deductable and $300,000 libility, I''m paying $209.00 per year.Only problem I had is that when I took the boat from S.C. to Fl., I had to re-do everything with Allstate in Fl. Also havent been given a good answer to what I need to do about coverage if I take the boat to the Bahamas. All they could or would tell me is that''s it''s covered 100 miles off the USA coast. The Abaco is about 150 miles. Still working on that. Hope this help''s.


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## NCountry (May 25, 2006)

and Jeff......PLEASE learn some of the basics in life like SPELLING and GRAMMAR. Good Communication skills are not just for the educated.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

*Insurance*

Who needs it? Well the other threads have already said most of it but I have been in the unfortunate position to be on my own thousands of miles from home watching my boat lying on it's side in 4 metres of water with the keel lying to one sideand everything in the boat trashed. The pain that I had felt paying out lots of dinero for comprehensive boat insurance was quickly forgotten.
One bit of advice though, talk to your insurers all the time about changes in your plan.
Like changing from fully crewed to short or singlehanding.
Like changing you trip plan from the Azores to Eritrea (sic?).
You'll find lots of little gems in your small print about what they won't do if you don't do.
As far as life insurance goes, I'm not the right person to give advice, I've cancelled most of mine becuase like one of the other threads said, I'm old enough not to worry too much about what is left behind when I die. I'm one of the guys that makes life insurance better for others. I paid all my life and never claimed a thing.
Good luck.


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