# Cheoy Lee Clipper Ketch 33



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Anyone have any experience with the 1980 vintage Cheoy Lee Ketch. A broker just sent me some info on one and I would like opinions on their handling and construction. Particularly any known issues.

Thanks


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

You have a unique ability to find poorly built, poor sailing, swashbuckling looking vessels; long on notalgia, short on being a good boat. You need a broker who will aim you at decent boats.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks Jeff,

I do love the looks, admitted. Same with vintage cheys. If I were entirely sane I probably wouldn't be looking for a boat at all, eh? Case closed.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

This boat deserves a good home ...

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...tid=0&ps=30&man=bounty&slim=quick&searchtype=


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Jeff_H said:


> You have a unique ability to find poorly built, poor sailing, swashbuckling looking vessels; long on notalgia, short on being a good boat. You need a broker who will aim you at decent boats.


This may seem harsh words today, but you'll buy this man a virtual beer one day for his wise words. While not uniformly bad (the Tayana 37 was OK if lumpy), a lot of the 1970s-80s Asian-built boats would have been better used as teak lawn furniture.

If you really like old school "character" boats, go for a Camper-Nicholson or a Morgan Out Island 41. They aren't terrible. If you want something woody, probably beat-up, sluggish but near indestructible, may I recommend the Westsail 32 or the Contessa 26.

Strangely, I was talking to a surveyour today, and we both agreed that Westsail 42s and Contessa 32s are better boats with worse reputations. Boating is a fickle pursuit.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

They're well-deserving as well, of their _Cheoy Leaky_ moniker.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks all, this is why I ask the questions. I see no Cheoy Lee defenders out there. 

To date my largest boat has been a San Juan 21. Not classic I know, but a lovely boat and served us well. So, I'm a novice at keel boats. Also appreciate the lead but Mystic Ct is a bit off my geography. Try not to have to transport too farandI'm in Florida. She is truely lovely though.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Nothing wrong with a SJ 21, and nothing wrong with smaller boats. But I would suggest crewing on boats you like (if they race or if an older couple needs a hand on a weekend cruise). Make it clear that while you don't want their boat necessarily, you are learning about boats of certain types because otherwise you'll get swayed by a salty looking teak deck on some floating money pit. Tell 'em Sailnet sent ya.


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## TSteele65 (Oct 19, 2006)

Sailormann said:


> This boat deserves a good home ...
> 
> http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...tid=0&ps=30&man=bounty&slim=quick&searchtype=


Beautiful boat, but the formica bulkheads really take it down a peg.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

That cockpit does not look like a '58 design.


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## TSteele65 (Oct 19, 2006)

Bardo said:


> That cockpit does not look like a '58 design.


I found a few photos of her sister ships, and the design seems consistent. The only thing missing from Maia's cockpit seems to be some teak cap rails.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

That may be whats throwing me off.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

TSteele65 said:


> Beautiful boat, but the formica bulkheads really take it down a peg.


It's possible the same will be said of some of the trend-setting boats of today. I certainly like the appointments and the vastness of the saloons in a lot of cruisers I see, until I think of going into more than a two-foot chop with them. But I'm probably not the target market anyway.

I wonder why that "classic plastic" _Maia _is as cheap as it is if it's been that extensively redone. Like most 40 footers of that type, it probably has the interior volume of a Catalina 30 at best, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't make an excellent daysailer you could keep on a mooring to avoid dock length costs. It could be the fairly obvious use of massive water ballasting or the Atomic 4 (sure hope it's FWC!), but I've seen far worse "character" boats. This looks on deck like an Alberg 30 crossed with an eight metre with glassed over coamings.


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## TSteele65 (Oct 19, 2006)

Valiente said:


> It's possible the same will be said of some of the trend-setting boats of today. I certainly like the appointments and the vastness of the saloons in a lot of cruisers I see, until I think of going into more than a two-foot chop with them. But I'm probably not the target market anyway.
> 
> I wonder why that "classic plastic" _Maia _is as cheap as it is if it's been that extensively redone. Like most 40 footers of that type, it probably has the interior volume of a Catalina 30 at best, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't make an excellent daysailer you could keep on a mooring to avoid dock length costs. It could be the fairly obvious use of massive water ballasting or the Atomic 4 (sure hope it's FWC!), but I've seen far worse "character" boats. This looks on deck like an Alberg 30 crossed with an eight metre with glassed over coamings.


Apparently, the owner was originally asking $90K for _Maia_. Something isn't adding up there.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I have a 33 ft Cheoy Lee Offshore. I have been very pleased with her. There is a lot of work, but I still get to choose whether to spend a day on her sailing or working. There are a few leaks from the windows but I am in the process of replacing the large fixed windows with smaller oval portlights. The original teak deck had been removed, but there are no soft spots on the deck or in her hull. Her bilge stays dry. Her teak garners alot of attention from me and compliments from others. Maybe the reason I got her as cheaply as I did is in part due to all this negative publicity that Cheoy Lees receive.

I will race her in a 150 mile offshore race at the end of this month and she is taking my brother to Panama next June. My opinion is that you buy the boat for your own reasons then you have only yourself to thank or blame as the situation demands.

mike


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

TSteele65 said:


> Apparently, the owner was originally asking $90K for _Maia_. Something isn't adding up there.


Oh, probably. Caveat emptor and all that. But occasionally it has been known that some old guy with hermit tendencies works on a boat for years to a high degree of fit and finish, and then gets sick and/or dies, leaving the "project" to non-sailing kin. Were this to happen when the old guy originally decided to sell, and continued when the heirs were calling the shots, I can easily see the price falling like a stone just to avoid paying the coming winter's yard fees.

Or it's a piece of crap.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

doctom said:


> I will race her in a 150 mile offshore race at the end of this month and she is taking my brother to Panama next June. My opinion is that you buy the boat for your own reasons then you have only yourself to thank or blame as the situation demands.


I agree entirely with you. The fellow next to me at the club a couple of years ago had a 33 foot ChrisCraft sloop from '65 (yes, they made sailboats for a few years). The boat was seven inches shorter than my '73 racer/cruiser and TEN THOUSAND POUNDS heavier, but he had equal parts of work and fun, even if the thing sailed like a UPS van with two flats.

If you had the skills and expectations usual to having owned a couple of boats previously, there's no reason why an old Cheoy Lee with a minimum of defects wouldn't be a fine choice. But I would hesitate to argue it would make a good first boat for someone who didn't have the skill set or the time to keep it in good order.


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## rogern (May 13, 2000)

*Beg to differ*

Has anyone posting replies to this ever actually owned a Cheoy Lee Clipper, or crewed extensively on one, or even spent an overnight aboard? Or are you just parroting rumors and derogatory comments you've heard from others?

We bought our '72 Clipper 42 schooner Izurde in June of '06, and have taken her from St. Petersburg, FL, offshore to the Chesapeake (where she spent a year at Herrington Harbour Marina in Deale, MD) and from there, offshore again, to southern Massachusetts and then to Down East Maine, where she's wintering on the hard at the Hinkley yard in Southwest Harbor. In addition, I've delivered a '74 Clipper 42 ketch from Miami to Norfolk, also offshore.

Believe me, I'll take Izurde over a Morgan (??) any day, or over any modern condo-on-a-keel. She is well built, (heavily overbuilt in her lay-up above and below the waterline, by modern standards), excellently finished in beautiful wood below decks, and well equipped. Bill Luders did an excellent job in designing the Clipper series, just as Bob Perry and Phillip Rhodes did with the yachts they designed for CL. She is a real CCA-style yacht, with a contained, manageable interior that won't leave you rattling around in a blow, lots of manageable stowage, and a high "survivability factor." Most yachts of her vintage have been extensively re-fit, be they Morgans, Pearsons, Cheoy Lees or Hinkleys, and so will not suffer from any original weaknesses in metallurgy or construction. NO 30 year old teak deck that hasn't been repaired replaced or removed is likely to be leak free, but at least on Izurde the deck was cored with solid mahogany, so that where she did leak, the water penetration was contained and the damage limited. What do you think Morgan cored their decks with?

While the comments about potential problems with rigging, decks and wiring have weight, not all of these problems were experienced in all boats of this ilk, i.e. Asian built boats from the '60s and '70s. The Cheoy Lee shipyard has been in operation for almost a hundred years, and builds both commercial and pleasure craft to hundreds of feet in length. Their expertise and competence is widely acknowledged even today, when companies like Morgan Yachts have ceased to exist or are merely brands of other builders.

Here are a couple of thoughts cribbed from Practical Sailor: "Back in the late 1960s and 1970s, Cheoy Lee enjoyed an enviable reputation for classic design and superior workmanship, even if some of the boats suffered from a few problems endemic to Asia, such as inappropriate use of plywood and poor electrical wiring practices." "Like most boats of this vintage, the Clipper 36 and 42 have a solid fiberglass hull. According to company literature, its thickness ranges from about 7/16" at the sheer to 1" at the keel. This is hefty." And finally, "There's no denying that the 'classic' look of the Cheoy Lee Clipper series is enough to make your heart flutter: 'That's what a boat is supposed to look like!' Indeed, some well-known personalities such as singer Jimmy Buffet have succumbed to the Clipper's Siren song." "Construction certainly was above average, with heavily laid hulls and fairly sound joinerwork. Prices for early models represent a good value in today's market..." "You don't buy a Cheoy Lee Clipper for performance or ease of maintenance. The 36 and 42 appeal to certain types of sailors, and you know who you are. Go in with your eyes open, ready to work (or pay), and you'll have a boat to be proud of for many years to come."

To those of you who think you know better, I say, come sail with me on my boat before you claim to know she's "inferior".

See you on the water,
Roger Noble
"Amazing Grace" Catalina 30 #3725
Lake Travis, Austin, Texas
"Izurde" Cheoy Lee Clipper 42
Seal Cove, Maine


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## tenuki (Feb 11, 2007)

Ishmael said:


> To date my largest boat has been a San Juan 21. Not classic I know, but a lovely boat and served us well.


 Hey, that's a nice little boat.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

I was under the impression that the Cheoy Lee Luders 36 was a respected and affordable boat worthy of offshore work for the budget-minded. Granted, I have no experience on Cheoy Lee's, so correct me if I'm wrong.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Ishmael , If your looking for a salty boat , full of teak and character . A nice full keel to sit you steady in the water . Something your not going to get in trouble with when shes blowin snot . A boat that stands out in a crowd . If your not looking for speed or trying to go hard to weather , but want the quintessential sailboat with all the charm that the Cheoy Lee offers . I say go for it . However be sure you know whare your going to , and what you want to do with it before you shell out your greenbacks . Is a full keel suitable for the anchorage at your destinations ? Do you have to fight currents and typical wind patterns to get whare you want to be ? If the answers to these considerations can be overcome with a full keel that wont go to weather well . Then again I say go for it . You must love your boat otherwise its just a hole in the water draining your pockets , elbow grease and time . If you know that the modern performance cruiser is not going to blow your skirt up after the initial thrill is gone dont let someone else steer you from your dream . I'm sort of in the decision process myself trying to pro and con what is best for our next cruising episode . We are stuck somewhare between the practicality and performance of Tartan and the nostalgia of Tayana , Formosa and Island Trader . I have even thought about a Com-pac trailerable cruiser for the time being till the kids are a little older and the admiral and I can figure out what we want to do ? In the end they are all great boats , however what will I be happy with 5 years from now ? Thats my two cents


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## Lion35 (Sep 28, 2007)

Writing this from my 1959 Cheoy Lee Lion and I have to say the comments above about Cheoy Lee build quality don't sit well with my experience. Does my boat demand a lot of work, h__l yes. Do I think she's extremely well made and designed, yes (Author Robb). Was the, thankfully minimum, plywood used in her construction junk, yes, the glue, not the teak plys. Did all of the electrical need replacing, yes; will your boat need new wiring when she's 40 years old? probably yes. Where will most production boats be when their 48 years old, you tell me?


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## sahara (Dec 15, 2006)

We had a Cheoy Lee Offshore 41 in the late 70's, early 80's, Ray Richards design. It was a truly gorgeous boat with some nagging problems.

The toerail and port lights leaked from almost day 1. All of the deck hardware and winches were made by CL, and were decidedly undersized and inferior. I pulled a turning block out of the toerail going upwind in moderate conditions. We ended up replacing the winches, blocks, traveler, etc. with domestic.

Also - the mast was deck-stepped and, to accomodate the enormous circular saloon table, there was no bulkhead in way of the chainplates. Because of this, the hull flexed a lot underway, and there was no way to keep the rigging tight. When underway, a lot of the cabinetry would shift around because it was not tabbed to the hull. Etc., etc. 

Something that was not really an issue then, but might be today, was that the engine was under the cabin sole, actually down in the keel sump, without a pan, so any leaks would go straight to the bilge water.

That said, I think a lot of boats built in the late 70's were not as good as boats that came earlier or later, and I think a lot of the earlier CL's deserve their reputation for better quality than what we saw. The later 70's were just not a great time for lots of things - remember AMC Pacer's and Gremlins? 

Again, these comments are specific to this boat, not to the earlier Rhodes Reliant and Robb designs, which are well regarded. If I was looking at a late 70's Cheoy Lee, I would hire a skeptical surveyor and listen to him.

Part of our issue was that we dicided to do some PHRF racing in the cruising canvas classes, and so may have subjected the rig and hardware to stresses CL didn't anticipate, but still, when we went looking for a replacement, CL was not on the list.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

i love my cheoy lee. In fact, i dare anyone to show me a thicker hull on a similar sized yacht. my wooden spars about about 75% stronger than comparable aluminum, my rigging is over-sized from the factory, put me oan a course and i'll hold it until something shoves me off, my hull is bullet (coral) proof, my shape is similar to an 18 year old cheerleader, and with a new paint job i am the envy of everyone who likes to sail in the marina. I admit to a leaky deck, but only until i removed the teak. find any dry teak deck after 30 years and you have found a prize! i could have more ballast, but i can add more ballast. 
far more people talk than know. 

Hugh (sitting pretty aboard the Cheoy Lee kethc "Chinquapin")


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