# Price of Fuel & Water in The Cyclades, Greece



## 140Lbs (Apr 6, 2010)

I’m skippering a 40Ft Catamaran out of Paros, Greece this June for just over a week. We brokered the boat through Fancy Sailing/picking it up from Island Sailing dot gr based in Paros. Last time I skippered this bunch in the BVI, I got stuck with a bill for about $40 for fuel at the end and never really recouped, so I want to build estimated fuel and water charges into their initial payment for the trip. Any one have any idea what we should budget for this in the Cyclades? The yacht holds 560 Litres of water and 250 Litres of fuel. Thanks for reading. Any other information about the sailing area and things to consider (places to visit, things to watch out for, nice anchorages, good food, etc. etc.) would be appreciated as well.


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Hi,

Can't help with the fuel or water prices -- it's been about two decades since I sailed those waters so my info wouldn't be current.

We do however have a few threads around here where we've discussed the Cyclades and Dodecanes as cruising destinations. Might be worth a search of the archives. One place I might suggest you avoid is Thira (Santorini). If the Meltemi is blowing it will be an easy sail downwind but quite a slog back. Plus it tends to be crowded with limited anchoring possibilities (although in one recent thread, I believe someone mentioned a new marina under construction.)

Also, not sure if you will be staying exclusively at marinas, but if not, you should familiar yourself with the procedures of "Med Mooring" (if you haven't already). That Med Mooring thread starts off on a bit of a tangent about trip lines, but if you stick with it you should find some helpful info.


----------



## 140Lbs (Apr 6, 2010)

Hey thanks for the info John! I chose mid June to hopefully avoid the nutzo crowds in July/August and the Meltemi business I’ve heard so much about (but I’ve read it can creep up at any time).

The med mooring thing: yeah, I have to school myself seriously about that for the next two months. I know we’ll provide entertainment for quite a few people our first few days out. But that does lead me to another question about cruising in the Cyclades: when, and when don’t you, have to pay to overnight? I’m sure like anywhere, anchoring is free and dockage at marinas costs $$ but when you’re med mooring…is that free? Is that why it’s so crowded? And am I right in saying there aren’t any mooring balls in the Cyclades (like in the Virgin Islands for example, where they’re everywhere)? It seems the terminology is a bit different over there so I’m trying to figure it all out.

I know we’ll have to get up pretty early to get to our next destinations b/c our beam is so wide and we’ll require the space of two monohulls. I’m not looking forward to that but I can’t think of a better place to be up early. 

I’ve been reading here about Meltemi and med-mooring a bit and will dive in more deeply over the next two months. I’d love some videos. The ones on you tube don’t look scary enough (no smashed transoms or ferry wake or laughing crowds on the wharf). I’ll also be reading a lot on sailingissues.com and getting a copy of the Greek Waters Pilot shortly.

About Thira/Santorini: I’d love more current news about this new marina, but being a bit of risk taker, I’m inclined to leave really early one morning at the beginning of our charter and head down there knowing there’s a 10% chance we might have to head back up to Ios the same day if we can’t find a spot. Is that stupid/unrealistic? But I’ve read that people have found spots w/out too much trouble recently. I’ll study more about Santorini and if need be, tell the crew to take the ferry down there after/before the charter if I decide to cut it out of our itinerary.

Some other questions I have on my brain are:
-where, if anywhere, can we build a campfire on the beach over there?
-the boat comes w/no snorkel gear/no bbq! What to do?
-where to provision/get fuel & water (planning to hit Ios/Mykonos/Serifos/Santorini/Delos/Naxos - give or take a few)

But today I’m just really curious about the fuel/water prices over there.

Thanks!


----------



## blackkevlar (Mar 22, 2010)

Hello 140
You know what they say about Med mooring.....practice practice practice... and try avoid doing it in a cross wind with a big ass tennis court cat !! 

Quite honestly you will likely be amongst the most unpopular yachts in the harbour with your chartered cat... you take up too much room for the small harbours and will eventually loose control, of the thing when coming in to med moor and wipe out someones pushpit. Aside from that they really do not sail that well here and you will find that you will burn alot of fuel getting to your next port in a hurry so that you can find somewhere to park the thing so the ladies can go shore...
to answer the question on fuel.. diesel is currently 1.35euro at the pump but add another 20% when the broker sells it to you at check in time on the return... after all he has to make the phone call to get the truck to the yacht and fill you up!!

As for the Meltemi you should be safe in June at least from any strong winds... In the Cyclades in JUne it can be a mixed bag the last of the southerlys in the begining of the month and quite often no wind in the middle of the month with increasing trends to the north in the end of the month... the Meltemi proper really does not start until July.... and you DO NOT WANT TO BE IN A CAT when it blows or get caught out it in in one...
Last summer we had 2 cats flip one down by Milos a 'lagoon 38' and the second was just south of Ikiara, and older Nautich 42.... both as the result of bad handling and stupidity in big seas and big winds..

Avoid the marina at thira, 1. its still not finished. 2. there is are reef in fron of it and local knowledge is required to get in . 3. there are breaking seas with any kind of north wind . 4. its about 40 minutes outside of town with a taxi and of course there is no bus etc to get you there.. basically a waste of time building the thing where they did !!:laugher 
and good luck anchoring in the caldera... how much chain do you have ? if you are lucky you may hit bottom in some places at 0ne to one, if you have 100 meters chain... but most cats only have 60-80 meters .. wieght you know they do not like all that weight up front...sinks the bows in a sea way !

as for you questions.....
1. it is illegal to build fires on beaches in Greece... we have enough trouble with fires on the mainland with out happy sailors building fires on beaches and burning down our islands :hothead 
2. No snorkel gear... no BBQ on board.... what was that term 'BARE BOAT'.. pretty much sums it up huh!  
3. Provisioning now thats a whole lot of fun when you have no idea where to go or what to buy... all ports have some sort of grocery store/supermarket, prices etc will reflect where you go and what island you are on... ie:- most expensive ...Mykonos, Santorini, Ios..
more resonable Serifos, Siphonos.... Delos is a national park and there is no overnight anchorage allowed. and Naxos is a beautiful island with excellent harbor facilities and even an American style marina where you can tie alongside... yeh no med moor!!  

One final piece of advice read your charter contract WELL as 90% of charter companies prohibit yachts from going to Santorini . If you go and get damaged as a result or someone sees you and calls the company... well as they say... your "goose is cooked" and say goodbye to any security deposit...

These are not the BVI's nor the Carribean Islands, as a first timer I would have recommended taking an expereinced captain with you or better still contact one of the private 'Captained yacht charter companies' and use there services first time off... when you know the ropes come back and do it your self.... I fear you are in for a very stressful sailing vacation... good luck though..


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

blackkevlar,

Your post brings back many memories. Maybe things haven't changes as much as I thought.

I'm glad to hear the meltemi will be less strong in June. We worked our way across the Cyclades and Dodecanes in July and August, when it was blowing SOLID. We saw one flipped cruising catamaran along the way. 

We took the ferry down to Thira from Ios, rather than sailing. We were glad we did. With only a week, I would suggest 140lbs come up with a modest itinerary so he isn't trying to rush from one island to the next. Maybe tack Thira/Santorini on at the end via ferry. We spent 10 weeks working our way through those islands and even still had to pass over a lot of interesting places.

I was also thinking how tricky it could be to med moor a catamaran. But if it has twin screws, it actually might not be too hard to back it in providing there is space.


----------



## 140Lbs (Apr 6, 2010)

Thanks guys!

But please explain: These cats that flip(ed)…are they under sail? or motor? when they flip(ed)? Are you saying basically Meltemi comes in w/no warning and flips cats? We’ll be monitoring the weather somehow….but I mean…should I have the crew prepare their wills before this trip or what?

Blackkevlar you wouldn’t happen to be a captain for hire would you? I’m freaked now! And I’ll try not to burn any of your islands or destroy any pushpits while there. We plan to practice med-mooring the first day. And, I know the Aegean sea is no BVI. That’s why I did the BVIs many many times before building up the courage to sail in the Aegean and that’s why we’re not going during the Meltemi/busy season and that’s why I’m going w/my much trusted 1st Mate.

And can’t we fuel up on another island (Naxos) besides the one we’re checking the boat back in to say, the night before, to cut down on this extra 20% backshish? Or do we need to build in the 20% no matter where we are?

The contract is silent about Thira/Santorini. It’s also silent about refueling at the end.

Thanks John: I’m sure there’s pros and cons to cats in the Aegean. There’s tons of them there. Must be a reason. I sailed cats as a kid and when I started chartering 10 years ago I favored cats but when I was skippering w/inexperienced crew once, I switched to mono b/c of the easier handling. But the folks I’m taking are into a cat ….and I’m up for it again since I have more experienced crew this time. It’s nice that cooks can have a view and breeze while underway….and the distances in the Aegean are a lot greater than BVI I’m gathering.

Our itinerary will be modest. I mentioned a lot of islands just to give folks a general idea of where we’re going, but I don’t expect to hit them all. I do not want ANY stress on my vacation.

I’d still love to hear about mooring balls or pricing options to overnight.


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Nah, you'll be fine. You'll figure something out on the med moor, or you'll just anchor out. Don't get too wound up about it -- think of it as part of the adventure.

Meltemi is an interesting wind. It blows strong, but usually with bright clear skies. So it can be a bit deceptive in that respect -- you don't have the sense of stormy weather that you do with a low-pressure system. You know what you're doing with that catamaran - make sure you reef for the gusts, not the prevailing wind as you'd do in a monohull. 

We found passing under the leeward side of the islands dropped the wind and seas down quite a bit. In any case, it sounds like you'll be out ahead of the strong Meltemi anyway.

I think you'll have a nice time if you don't get too ambitious with the itinerary. It's a great place to sail and the Greeks are very friendly folks. And the food is extraordinary -- order up some of that calamari for me!!


----------



## Greeksailor1 (Apr 9, 2010)

Oh boy here comes another tennis court to the Cyclades... Our Greek Brokers just love these things... expensive to charter.. means $ in there commission pockets... other than that they have absolutlely no use in Greece... and when they get to a lagoon 50... god what a waste of money.. actually they issue oxygen to the skipper becasue he is so far of the water he is bummping heads with incoming jets!! who steers a yacht from a fly bridge ??... a little swordfish spotting old sport !!

No we do not have mooring bouys in greece... this is not the carribean... we also do not have 'boat boys', coming to the yachts... nor do we have a man in a boston whaler coming around in the morning selling pastries and singing italian opera in the anchorages....

As far as rates for overnight dockage... figure this ... double becasue you are in a cat...if they charge it's becasue they have faciliteis at the island dock... if they do'nt charge it's becasue they have NOTHING TO OFFER... in both case be prepared to match you and your papers up to the port police office in each port and under go the spanish inquestion, ie:- they go though your boats papers looking for mistakes and expired certificates... if they find one ..which they sometimes do.. then be prepared for a lot of hassle... so check your papers before you leave... so how long is that check list now ??

Blackkevlar was right you should have found a company that does captained charter, otherwise you are likely to have a stressful vacation.. check in here check out there, find a parking spot for the tennis court, watch the weather, provision the boat, pay for fuel, water and dockage..keep yu eye on the clock as you are still thinking all day abolut parking the tennis court... leave it too late and not find a place or just say F$#^ it and do waht all BARE BOAT charters do jam the thing in a hole you think it may fit..
Have fun!!


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

blackkevlar said:


> Hello 140
> You know what they say about Med mooring.....practice practice practice... and try avoid doing it in a cross wind with a big ass tennis court cat !!
> 
> Quite honestly you will likely be amongst the most unpopular yachts in the harbour with your chartered cat... you take up too much room for the small harbours and will eventually loose control, of the thing when coming in to med moor and wipe out someones pushpit. Aside from that they really do not sail that well here and you will find that you will burn alot of fuel getting to your next port in a hurry so that you can find somewhere to park the thing so the ladies can go shore...
> ...





Greeksailor1 said:


> Oh boy here comes another tennis court to the Cyclades... Our Greek Brokers just love these things... expensive to charter.. means $ in there commission pockets... other than that they have absolutlely no use in Greece... and when they get to a lagoon 50... god what a waste of money.. actually they issue oxygen to the skipper becasue he is so far of the water he is bummping heads with incoming jets!! who steers a yacht from a fly bridge ??... a little swordfish spotting old sport !!
> 
> No we do not have mooring bouys in greece... this is not the carribean... we also do not have 'boat boys', coming to the yachts... nor do we have a man in a boston whaler coming around in the morning selling pastries and singing italian opera in the anchorages....
> 
> ...


Greeksailor,

Sailnet has rules about disclosing affiliation with any marine related companies. This includes charter companies, sailing schools, etc.

We also have strict rules against using multiple accounts. What is your connection with Blackkevlar?


----------



## 140Lbs (Apr 6, 2010)

Thanks John. Yeah it really seems like blackkevlar and Greeksailor1 don't want us to come to the Cyclades. Maybe we should cancel our trip and take our group's hard earned money to the Caribbean instead. Regardless, the warnings and information are appreciated. The rudeness...not so much.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd point out that a modern cruising catamaran takes a lot to flip... and in most cases human stupidity is a primary contributing factor. 

As JRD said, you really have to know what you're doing as multihulls have to be sailed and handled differently than do monohulls. Reefing on a multihull is done for peak wind speeds rather than the average wind speeds since a multihull can not heel to bleed off the excess wind force in a gust. Likewise, you really have to keep your mind on the amount of sail you have up....since the difference in apparent wind going downwind to going upwind can be far more drastic.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

No, it just sounds like they want more of your group's money, since they don't think your group can handle a bareboat charter properly.... 


140Lbs said:


> Thanks John. Yeah it really seems like blackkevlar and Greeksailor1 don't want us to come to the Cyclades. Maybe we should cancel our trip and take our group's hard earned money to the Caribbean instead. Regardless, the warnings and information are appreciated. The rudeness...not so much.


----------



## 140Lbs (Apr 6, 2010)

Yeah I know. I'm not really worried about anything. I know people don't like cat loving charterers.

Anyway, it sounds like you guys are saying cats never flip while motoring and when they do flip it's b/c there's too much sail up for the wind conditions. I've skippered two large cats (once during a hurricane) and never flipped.

Helpful info.

Thanks everyone.

Keep it coming. I need more stuff to freak out about.

I think I'm going to start a summer t-shirt business over there with shirts that say "Got Meltemi?". Don't steal my idea.


----------



## AKscooter (Jan 18, 2009)

*140lbs*.............Do not let eurotrash like *greeksailor1* lecture you on your seamanship skills. Every place has a challenge and most locals are happy to share their knowledge without the mordita. Perhaps next, *greeksailor1* will lecture you about how he successfully runs the Greek economy.


----------



## 140Lbs (Apr 6, 2010)

Thanks for the vote of confidence AK. I have a lot to learn about sailing but I'll be fine. One thing I always remember is what a sailing instructor once told me: If you're going to get into trouble, get into trouble slowly. I probably sail like a granny.

I’ve noted: 1) keep the sails reefed for any gusts and 2) downwind apparent wind is more drastic than upwind apparent wind. Understand 1. Trying to get my head around 2…it’ll come to me. Hard to think about it in a cubicle.

I actually like the lectures. They divulge a lot of info. I'm expecting riots straight off the plane, Meltemi lurking around every point, and flipped catamarans left and right to navigate around. Hopefully they'll still be on the Euro. But I think I still have some Drachma laying around from my last time there. I probably wasn't too popular when I was sleeping on the beach for 3 weeks back then either.


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

140Lbs said:


> Thanks for the vote of confidence AK. I have a lot to learn about sailing but I'll be fine. One thing I always remember is what a sailing instructor once told me: If you're going to get into trouble, get into trouble slowly. I probably sail like a granny.
> 
> I've noted: 1) keep the sails reefed for any gusts and 2) downwind apparent wind is more drastic than upwind apparent wind. Understand 1. Trying to get my head around 2&#8230;it'll come to me. Hard to think about it in a cubicle.
> 
> I actually like the lectures. They divulge a lot of info. I'm expecting riots straight off the plane, Meltemi lurking around every point, and flipped catamarans left and right to navigate around. Hopefully they'll still be on the Euro. But I think I still have some Drachma laying around from my last time there. I probably wasn't too popular when I was sleeping on the beach for 3 weeks back then either.


You'll have a great time. Don't worry about it.

If you need some drachma, I've still got a few thousand or so laying around.


----------



## 140Lbs (Apr 6, 2010)

Thanks everyone! Yeah I can't wait!


----------



## AKscooter (Jan 18, 2009)

I got an idea....we will take up a collection and send Smackdaddy with ya. 

He has your back!!!!


----------



## Greeksailor1 (Apr 9, 2010)

It would seem that 140lbs has had all his questions answered from the orginal thread..
fuel price... currently about 1.36euro and goig up... do'nt forget to add the brokers 20%kickback... topping off before you return is a good idea, however the broker will give you some BS about the islands fuel being contaminated and you shuld only use 'his services... a huh..

Mooring bouys... none in the greek islands that I know off.

winds... no meltemi in june but possible local weather systems

provisions.. just about anywhere

dockage... depends on where you are... but generally yes

Port Police...= Spanish inquistion... becareful and polite

Santorini.... a fools destination in a yacht

Cats in the greek islands... a mistake brought on us by greedy greek brokers, that the greek sailing public now has to live with..

The current greek eonomy.... 'Can you spare a dime mate ? Please ..."

Blackkevlar... no idea who he is, but seems to have a fiar picture of the situation in the greek islands

otherwise 140lbs have fun here, and watch out for the russian bareboaters, there much worse then any ragging you may have gotten here.. good luck


----------



## chrondi (Mar 24, 2004)

I think there are still questions needing meaningful answers:
Considering conditions at Ios, Mykonos, Serifos, Santorini, Delos and Naxos, pls. take out Delos because I doubt whether you will be allowed access there with your big cat. All the other islands have confortable ports, including Vlychada in Santorini. Harbour fees in Santorini should be around €40/day and you are not charged for the water taken. At Ios, Mykonos and Serifos where it is possible that you will not be required to pay for your stay, you should expect a bill of €5 for filling your water tanks (one-off payment, I calculate consumption based on 25 lt. per day and person). Naxos harbour will charge you €20/day (catamarans normally pay double the price of a monohull). Fuel delivery is by truck on the dock (you have to order in advance), price just over €1/lt. Last summer in Santorini we rented a minivan from the marina and it cost €60/day. You need one full day to visit the island and it's fully worth both the time and the money spent. Click on the following YouTube links to watch two video clips from my Cyclades cruise last year:


----------



## 140Lbs (Apr 6, 2010)

Hey Chrondi, that's great info! Thx!!! I have actually seen your videos before! And thanks for not squashing this thread to an end&#8230;.the more info the better, and safer (and nicer) it is for everyone in the Cyclades.

So Santorini is NOT a fools destination eh? You are the second person (the other being sailingissues.com &#8230;oh and not to mention the Greek Waters Pilot I just got in the mail) to tell me it's a viable option to include in ones itinerary on a bareboat charter in the Cyclades, i.e., a sail to the harbor at Vlychada isn't going to end up w/sunken charter yachts and tales of doom and gloom etc. I think we could navigate the channel into Vlychada harbor safely by checking it out with a dinghy first while the cat waits in deeper water. And it could possibly be less of an issue given the cats short draft. We'll probably skip Santorini b/c of our short time though. And the inevitable beating to windward fun to get back closer to base afterwards.uke

Chrondi, just to clarify for my purposes though: you're saying that estimated harbor fees for my big fat ugly tennis court catamaran in Vlychada would be €40/day? or €80/day? &#8230;and there's plenty of easily accessed fresh water there to top off my water tanks? &#8230;for FREE!? Kinda sounds like I'd be a fool not to go there&#8230;and have a couple mopeds delivered to my yacht. But it's probably better to end your charter on Thira and take a ferry back.

And the harbor fees for my big fat ugly tennis court catamaran in Naxos Harbor would be €40/day?

We're going to base our itinerary around islands w/easy access to water and I estimate we'll only "dock" in harbors/marinas (i.e., ones that charge money and have fuel/showers etc.) 2 or 3 times during our 1 week charter (hopefully only once). Other nights we'll most likely be looking for secluded bays to spoil by anchoring our monster yacht and sipping retsina while quietly watching sun sets. We'll probably only visit 4-5 Islands this time around given our short time.

Delos: there's no place we can anchor and quietly/respectfully dingy over to shore for a day of humble exploration?

Ok, keep making videos friend! It's nice to see the ladies at the helm.


----------



## chrondi (Mar 24, 2004)

Delos is a protected site and I would not test the friendliness of Greek Coast Guard in a place equivalent to the ... White House. You DON'T anchor there with your cat, period.
All this talk about precautions when approaching Vlychada marina at Santorini with your shallow draft boat is pure NONSENSE. Last July that I visited the place there was even a yellow buoy fixed a couple of hundred meters off the coast to safely mark the entrance.
Prices I gave you about harbour fees in Santorini and Naxos are the double of what I paid last year for a 44i Jeanneau monohull. The assistants at both places will be happy to suggest their friends for renting motorbikes or cars and CERTAINLY they will not rob you. On the other hand you can argue that you were told that multihulls just pay double the price of monohulls. In Naxos you can even threaten that you will take your boat just next to the harbour, on the lee of the "PORTARA" temple, where it is free of charge and communicate with the shore shuttling on the dinghy.
The only real risk you need consider is the gusty meltemi wind and ensuing short breaking waves, especially in the area between Paros and Naxos, south of Mykonos, and I'm sure the salty taste from the sea spray will stay for days after in your mouth ...


----------



## vegasandre (Jun 20, 2009)

*In 10-20 years there will be more cats than monos in Greece*

Greeksailor1- better get used to that. its the way of the future stop living in 1970.


----------



## sailtimeci (Dec 10, 2006)

Just an FYI - we paid $1.55 EU per litre for fuel in Italy last month...and $60-150 EU for berthing. i dont know if this correlates to Greece. But after 3 med charters now it is safe to say that med chartering is not for those who have a hard time parting with money


----------

