# Lightnings vs Scots vs Snark vs Sunfish



## HollieMac (Apr 17, 2011)

Hey All, I realize most of you sail much bigger boats than these, but.. what small, say under 18', single person boat will go fastest on a small reservoir with fickle 15mph or less winds? Opinions and experiences welcome.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

They are quite different boats. The Lighting and Flying Scot are racing boats, the Sunfish and especially the Snark are more of a "have fun" type of dinghy.

The Lightning is somewhere between a keel boat and dinghy with a heavy weighted keel. It weighs about 700lbs and would be harder to trailer. I've sailed them and they are a lot of fun, though in most conditions they are more of a two person boat.

The Flying Scot has 191 sqft of sail area, which is a lot to manage on a dinghy when single handing. I haven't sailed one, but I think it's probably better as a two person boat too. Based on it's 850lb weight it must also be a weighted centerboard.

The Sunfish is the first boat that I ever sailed on, but worlds simpler than the Scot or Lightning. It's fun, but I think there are boats that you'll grow more into than this one.

The Snark is basically a styrofoam Sunfish and should be close to free.

I think you'd probably be better served with a Laser (maybe with a radial rig) than any of these. You might also look for two handed dinghies aimed at the juniors market, they can often be sailed well single handed. Flying junior and 420 are two examples.

This is a heavily biased (towards the 505) list of dinghy classes, but I find it useful even to see what it says about other boats. You can learn a lot by reading between the lines:
http://int505.org/old_site/compare.htm

The 505 is a high performance two person dinghy with tons of sail area, so I don't think that is what you are looking for either.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I should add that I don't have a lot of experience with boats this size, I've just done a lot of reading. I've sailed on a few of them and teach sailing on a small keelboat called the Blanchard Junior. I just (two days ago) bought a 505 for racing, but haven't actually sailed it yet.


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## unimacs (Sep 6, 2013)

HollieMac said:


> Hey All, I realize most of you sail much bigger boats than these, but.. what small, say under 18', single person boat will go fastest on a small reservoir with fickle 15mph or less winds? Opinions and experiences welcome.


*Fastest:* Moth or similar. If you want something fast but more stable, a cat of some sort.

*Traditional Monohull:* Laser, or perhaps a lake scow like an MC.

I sailed Lasers when I was a kid and spent a lot of time in MCs this past summer. MCs are bigger, heavier, and faster under light to moderate conditions. They don't like big waves or big wind. You can sail them with a crew, but I wouldn't say they are spacious.

Lasers are a true single handed boat. It's not that you can't get two adults on them but they are meant for one. They are simple to rig and a blast to sail in just about any weather but I think it's fair to say that you should be prepared to be fairly active while sailing them. Body position is important. They are very easy to right if they capsize.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

it has more to do with your launching and storage requirements then how the boat sails. will you launch single handed? will you use a trailer or car top? do you need power to get home if the wind stops. do you want to stay dry or wear a wetsuit? if you want fast and wet then a Catamaran. if you are asking this question then not a 505. Laser is a good starter and you will be able to buy cheap and will sell for the same.


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## RedHorizon (May 13, 2012)

I'd vote for the laser or an MC Scow. Both are fast and should be available for pretty resonable prices for a good starter boat. A Hobie 16 is also a great bet if your looking for speed. I've sailed all three before, and all of these boats are a blast to sail. There is a video online somewhere of Buddy Melges pulling a skier behind an MC Scow.


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## HollieMac (Apr 17, 2011)

Thank you Alex, and All responders, your comments greatly appreciated.
There is a great buy on a Lightning very near me, so I was interested again in sailing my local reservoir, but I bought a Siren years ago and it sat in my barn for 15 yrs because I couldn't raise the mast alone. The buyer of my boat said that was actually doable but he was near to driving away with it at the time. I absolutely need to be able to raise the mast alone. Launching and trailering are no issues. I trailer and launch power boats alone. 

While I was windsurfing at a different reservoir last week a couple of great sailors put me in the cockpit of a Windrider and the afternoon just blew by.
So that got me thinking again about what I could get on the water with locally (our local puddle does not allow you to be in the water, so a cat is a bit more risky there) Yes I would love to have tons of sail area, but I have to be able to single hand it. So I wondered how closely a 90 pound boat with a 120 pound person could go as fast as a 400 pound boat with 4 times the sail area. You've given me a couple of other options to look at and I Thank You All.


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## TJC45 (Jul 10, 2013)

You risk being in the water with any small boat including every boat on your list. it would take a jerk LEO to cite you for being in the water to right a boat. 

That said, the fastest small boat you can buy would be a cat. The Hobie 14 is a single handed boat. The Hobie 14 turbo adds a jib and is still a single handed boat. Both versions can handle extra crew members.


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## micksbuddy (Aug 11, 2006)

While a Scot is really meant to be doublehanded, I singlehand mine regularly. And it's okay with that up to about 15 knots, after that it becomes a bit overpowered, at least with my moderate skill level. They are quite difficult to capsize, you pretty much have to try or have something go very wrong. I trailer sail mine and raise the mast myself, but it's pretty heavy and not that easy. I suspect that although they are considerably easier to capsize, that a Laser might be better suited to what you're looking for. My .02.


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

If you want a boat easy to single hand, go with the sunfish.

Lightnings and the scots are fun but above 12 kts of wind will be a handful singlehanded.

That said, if it were me, I'd learn how to singlehand the lightening and make a sailing friend for those days that I'd like to try setting my hair on fire. 

Getting a dinghy planing is a fantabulous adventure.


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## Foxy (Sep 14, 2013)

We have a fleet of Flying Scott's owned by the sailing center I belong to. Mostly they are used for sailing lessons and recreational sailing by the members. They are very forgiving boats and very rugged. If you want a boat that you can take friends out in, its a good choice. 
If you want to sail alone all the time, the Sunfish is a good choice. Easy to set up and fun to sail in a breeze. We have a fleet of those too, along with Opti's, Lasers, 420's, Hobie Waves & Getaways, kayaks, paddle boards and wind surfers.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Here's a listing of Portsmouth rating system for inshore centerboarders which will define the relative 'speed' potential of currently raced (and formerly raced) 'small' boats: Centerboard Classes
& (inactive) Centerboard Classes-Inactive

For 'speed' and versatility, ... and for sailing in relatively 'flat' water, Id consider an MC Scow, an M16 scow, or a 'bendy mast'/tunnel hulled M20 scow (with ~35 'control lines' - a 'handful' for a single hander but can be done); however, with 'scows' they need to be 'heeled well over' and thus the need for some wind to be able to 'fly'. Ive occasionally pulled a water skier with my M20s !!!!! .... also: Thistle, 420, Flying Dutchman, 505, GP14, etc.

With the current continued demise of small sail boat racing, if you look hard, you might find an unused one of these 'pocket rockets' sitting in a driveway, etc. and that may 'go for a song'. My first M16 scow with which I won a 'lot of pewter' was a 'find' from a 'junk pile'.


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## HollieMac (Apr 17, 2011)

Thank You Rich for your great response, especially the links to the Portsmouth ratings. 

Everything in sailing is relative to your conditions, and so all of the threads on which boat to buy for a "starter" didn't cover what I was looking for. 

Since I would choose windsurfing over anything else on a good wind day, I am looking for a small boat to stay dry on for off-season sailing, which is when the wind is better inland. You would know all about that, being in PA.
And I've seen a couple of interesting offerings nearby so I get curious about these odd little bits of boat for sale. They all look like good fun to me.

I would LOVE to see a pic of your skiers behind your boat.
What an amazing ride that would be, without the sound of an engine. It takes less speed to wakeboard, so I'm sure you could get someone to be photographed in your wake. Looking forward to those pics! Thanks!


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

Putting up a Lightning mast singlehanded can be done, but you'll want to try it with some helpers around the first few times. Missing the partners with the butt of the mast could be an expensive event. You might take some of the excitement out of the equation by attaching the backstay and perhaps the shrouds on one side to keep the mast from falling over in the opposite direction. Rigging and unrigging a Lightning can take a while, too, so you might be hard pressed to go out for short afternoon sails if you have to launch & rig each time you go out. The Flying Scot might be easier to rig. The mast is shorter and there are fewer controls to tweak, so setup might be quicker too. That said, the Lightning is probably the most comfortable of the boats you mentioned. It's a bit heavier and more stable than the others because of its deep steel centerboard. Its large sail area keeps it moving in light air, and can get it up on a plane when it blows. The Flying Scott will plane more easily, but can be a real tub in light air. The best thing to do might be to try sailing the different boats and see which would work best for you.


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## HollieMac (Apr 17, 2011)

Thank you Paul for your excellent summary. The local (very small) club sails Lightnings and I was on one after having my Siren for a year and thought, my, what an uncomfortable boat this is! Duck! Duck!

I have noticed that not one of these old sailors ever goes out except on regular race day. Curious, why one would not take advantage of a good wind day to go out just for fun. So, I could fit in with the locals if I bought the Lightning, but I have a hunch it would give me more work than sailing. Your reply expressed that in realistic terms.

I don't want to race. But I don't want to just float around in a tub either. So your impression of both of those boats was quite apt.

There is an excellent buy on a very nicely kept Lightning nearby but there is also a 16 foot boat that looks similar, but is made by a much lesser known company, and is advertised as easily singlehanded with a mast that is easy to step by one, as well. I posted a query about it but got no replies.

Maybe you would be willing to take a peek at their website and let me know if you think it is a good choice. C&L Boatworks under products you'll see the 16' This one is a well used boat with only the mainsail, no jib or cover, for $1000, on a trailer, so I can get it home,though almost 3 hrs each way for me. I could order the jib and anything else needed for it. Or I could start looking for a cat. I seem to resist that in preference to a nice old fashioned boat. Thank you much!


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## Foxy (Sep 14, 2013)

Hope that you don't mind that I brought this from PM to the main thread. When I tried to respond, I got a message that I didn't have enough posts to send private messages. Go figure!

The sailing center that I refer to is the US Sailing Center, Martin County in Jenson Beach. It is on the east coast of FL where Marco is on the west coast.

I had never heard of a CL, but the pictures look similar to several other one designs out there. Unless the boat takes off and develops a fleet in your area, resale value will be low, just like the other hundreds of orphan one designs that never quite made it. OTOH, boats are, and never were, a good monetary investment. It is enjoyment you are buying and if you like the boat and it suits you, go for it.



HollieMac said:


> Thanks for your reply Foxy, I missed it earlier.
> Maybe a Sunfish is worth looking into.Thre is a 16' CL that I'm looking at-I don't think they are commone enough for anyone to know. I posted an inquiry and got no responses, and that's a pretty wide audience.
> It's a small boat that looks like it would sail well, but I know so little that I was hoping for advice. Thank you for your input, I appreciate it.
> 
> ...


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## HollieMac (Apr 17, 2011)

Thank you for your response Foxy, but at only $1000 I don't care what the resale value will be. I can anchor it on the pond for ornamentation if that's all the more use it gets. I want to sail the South Pacific eventually so I'm looking for a single-hander to become skilled on. And hauling it down to FL to use for the winter would be great as well. The Caxambas Pass is very accessible to me, but has many shoals and shallows, with very strong tides,and I need to be cautious about what I get out there on. So I need to know more about the how well the boat sails than what it's worth in dollars.
And it looks like the only way I'm going to find that out is to go get it.


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