# Could someone point me in the right direction...



## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

If you didn't catch my first post, I'm VERY SERIOUSLY considering jumping both feet first into the sailing/liveaboard lifestyle. It's been a dream of mine for 25 years and I now have the chance to make it happen. That being said, I have no idea what kind of boat to start looking for.

I want a blue water boat b/c I DO intend on taking some extended trips to travel the world (eventually). I want a boat that I can handle ALONE and I want at least a 40' boat. I have no idea where to start with my search. There are so many different kinds of sailboats and I'm as green as it gets.

Would you folks be kind enough to make some recommendations on particular boats to take a look at??? Again, I'd like something between 40'-50' in length, comfortable/spacious (b/c I intend on living on her for the next few years), can be handled alone, is an ocean crossing vessel...a true blue water boat. To be honest, I'm not really sure where to even begin. I'm on information overload here. I've been doing a lot of reading on this site and there's a TON of information...but putting all the pieces of the puzzle together has not been all that easy.

Call me crazy, but my plan is to research the heck out of what kind of boat to buy, while studying up on sailing as much as I can in the process, then buy a boat and start my new adventure...learning as I go...hands on.

All that being said...I have to start somewhere...and for me, that's trying to learn what kind of boat I'm going to need. I would greatly appreciate any help I can get. Thank you!!!


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

Budget ?


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

boatpoker said:


> Budget ?


I'm hoping to get into something that is ready to sail under $100k. I might be able to go $150k but I prefer to stay under $100k...and that means the boat is ready to go to sea at that price. Thank you!!!

...and if I find something that meets this criteria at $60k, that's even better! I am NOT wealthy. I'm retired and on a fixed income but I'm determined to make it work.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Boat poker nailed it. Budget is your first priority.

Next is where you plan to keep it as a live aboard. Single handing a blue water boat single handed can be a hell of a lot easier than backing it into or out of a four pylon berth.

You don't want a boat that you can't simply go for a sail on, that is after all, the point of owning a sailboat.

After budget, plan on buying the boat you will use in the near future. And yes, most well equipped and maintained coastal cruisers can make carefully planned passages.


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

Have you ever sailed a boat before?


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

Bleemus said:


> Have you ever sailed a boat before?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Not a sailboat...but I learn best by learning hands on and just doing it. I'm 99.9% sure I can buy a boat and learn as I go. I'd like to learn on the boat I plan to sail/live on.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

AAAC said:


> Not a sailboat...but I learn best by learning hands on and just doing it. I'm 99.9% sure I can buy a boat and learn as I go. I'd like to learn on the boat I plan to sail/live on.


Would you learn to drive with an 18-wheeler? A bad and silly plan... but it has been done. But that does not make it the best or smartest way.

Start with a small dagger board sloop. It is a MUCH faster way to learn some important things:
* How the wind affects a boat.
* How a boat reacts to big waves and winds (a good breeze is a dingy gale).
* Whether you like being wind-dependent.

and more.

Sail Delmarva: The Merits of Learning to Sail on a Small Boat

50 feet for one person is likely to be more anoying to sail than you think. Doable, but more work.


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

pdqaltair said:


> Would you learn to drive with an 18-wheeler? A bad and silly plan... but it has been done. But that does not make it the best or smartest way.
> 
> Start with a small dagger board sloop. It is a MUCH faster way to learn some important things:
> * How the wind affects a boat.
> ...


I get that...I understand that might be the best way to go but I have some time constraints...and a window to do this. I am looking to cut some time off the learning curve and jump straight into what I will spend the next few years on.

So...not to be disrespectful, but back to my original question...do you have any suggestions about what type of boats to start looking at (considering my criteria)??? I know this probably isn't the "best" way to go but it's how I plan to do it. Thank you...I really appreciate it!


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

pdqaltair said:


> 50 feet for one person is likely to be more anoying to sail than you think. Doable, but more work.


Maybe I need to stick closer to a 40'er...


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

AAAC said:


> Not a sailboat...but I learn best by learning hands on and just doing it. I'm 99.9% sure I can buy a boat and learn as I go. I'd like to learn on the boat I plan to sail/live on.


Well good luck with it. Until you have sailed a boat of the size you desire you will have no idea but I don't fault anyone for choosing to do whatever they want. That being said make sure you are up to the task of single handing it because if you have no idea what your doing and think it will be romantic to take friends then you are putting their lives at risk.

Go take a fifty footer out by yourself in 35 knots of breeze. Tack it once and gybe it once then let me know what kind of boat your looking for after that. I have a feeling you plans will change.

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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

Bleemus said:


> Well good luck with it. Until you have sailed a boat of the size you desire you will have no idea but I don't fault anyone for choosing to do whatever they want. That being said make sure you are up to the task of single handing it because if you have no idea what your doing and think it will be romantic to take friends then you are putting their lives at risk.
> 
> Go take a fifty footer out by yourself in 35 knots of breeze. Tack it once and gybe it once then let me know what kind of boat your looking for after that. I have a feeling you plans will change.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I sincerely appreciate your feedback. That being said, I want to clarify...this has NOTHING to do with a "romantic interest of taking friends out"...this is about me sailing alone with my dogs and God...spending a few years doing something I've always wanted to do. This is about fulfilling a lifelong dream...but doing it my way...the way I know works best for me.

I FULLY understand that might not be the best/easiest way to do it, but I know me...and I know what works for me. Peace...hope to see you out there one day! :smile


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## Erindipity (Nov 29, 2014)

"I'm 99.9% sure I can buy a boat and learn as I go..."
"This is about fulfilling a lifelong dream...but doing it my way...the way I know works best for me. "

This guy isn't looking for Advise, he's looking for Affirmation.
The Coast Guard has a Technical term for People like these: "Floaters".
Not willing to take Instruction or a Class, plans on Singlehanding, with dogs no less... I do hope that he at least would have the Courtesy to let others know when he's out on the water, so the rest of us can stay far, far, away.

Yes, this may seem rude, but better here and now instead of in Court on charges of Manslaughter.
So some Instruction. Pay attention, whether you like it or not. Over centuries, the Rules Of the Road have been codified and translated into many Languages. (Dad worked on the 1972 English version.) These Rules are called COLREGS- In short, "Collision Regulations":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Regulations_for_Preventing_Collisions_at_Sea
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/International_Regulations_for_Preventing_Collisions_at_Sea

You won't be able to wing it on your own, as you go. These are Rules, and you have to learn them and follow them, just as there are Rules for driving a car on public roads.

Next, although you may not like it, you must spend some time on the water with at least a competent Sailor. Ask questions, but do as they say. Until you are off their Boat, you are their Responsibility. Which brings us to Insurance. Marine Insurance is a specialized, and fairly Ethical field. _Don't_ take a Boat out on your own until you have acquired some. (BTW, taking Classes often qualifies for a discount.)
California, and some other States, are moving towards Mandatory Licensing for Boaters, unfortunate, but now necessary because of all the Duffers:
California moves toward testing boaters for operator?s card - SFGate

Yes, this is aimed largely at Powerboats, which a Sailboat is, while under power.

Bob Perry is an excellent source here, and elsewhere, on the type of Boat that you are currently interested in, but read...oh... a couple of hundred of his Posts before asking for advice. BTW, he's a Naval Architect, and Professional level Advice often comes with a Bill.

¬Erindipity


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

Erindipity said:


> "I'm 99.9% sure I can buy a boat and learn as I go..."
> "This is about fulfilling a lifelong dream...but doing it my way...the way I know works best for me. "
> 
> This guy isn't looking for Advise, he's looking for Affirmation.
> ...


Let me ask you one simple question. Did you see in any of my posts where I may have implied I did not intend on learning what I need to learn before taking the next step.?.?.? If so, could you please point me to that post so I might be able to better understand where it is you are coming from???

I fully understand that I DON'T KNOW what I'm doing yet. That being said, I FULLY intend on learning what I need to learn. Now, how about getting down off your high horse and answering the simple question I posed. Just b/c you did something a certain way doesn't mean that's the ONLY way to get where you are at today. There may be a "best" way to do things...that works for most, and there might be a better way that works for some. You know you; I know me. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for me...and vice-versa.

I am listening to EVERYTHING that is being said here. That being said, I'm taking that information and using it to shape how I go forward...knowing who I am in the process. This forum seems to be made up of some certain folks who think the only way is the traditional method they went through to get where they are today. I hate to burst your bubbles but that's not the way it works in the real world. Everyone is different. Most folks don't know who they truly are or what they are made of. I do. I have the credentials to back it up. I MAY get in over my head but that's highly doubtful (b/c I won't move ahead of my own curve) but if I do, I'm OK with that.

Now, if we can get back to my original question...I was asking a simple question to see if the good folks on this forum might be able to point me in the right direction to start some research. * Please stay on topic folks.* I know you all have your own experiences and preconceived notions about how everything MUST be done...but if you are lucky, one of these days you just might come to the realization that your way wasn't the only way. PEACE!

This was a simple inquiry folks...just trying to get some direction on what type of boat to start looking at. Geeze.


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

Here's a boat to consider:

1988 Freedom Yachts 38 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

A tad smaller than your original spec, but if you are cruising by yourself a boat this size will, in my opinion, give you enough room to live comfortably and not be too big to manage by yourself. The rig on this one is as simple as they get and perfect for single-handed sailing.


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## Erindipity (Nov 29, 2014)

"Let me ask you one simple question. Did you see in any of my posts where I may have implied I did not intend on learning what I need to learn before taking the next step.?.?.?"
Yes, several times. You are dismissive of what others tell you that you need to learn. And note that there was no Learning Straitjacket- there were a lot of different suggestions, from different perspectives.

"Have you ever sailed a boat before?"
"Not a sailboat...but I learn best by learning hands on and just doing it. I'm 99.9% sure I can buy a boat and learn as I go. I'd like to learn on the boat I plan to sail/live on."
You've admitted that you've never sailed, and that you plan on buying a large boat first. If you had asked on a Car Forum about what Exotic Car to get, and then mentioned that you had never even been in a car, and you were going to teach yourself how to drive once you got it, on Public roads, while living in the front seat... 

" I am looking to cut some time off the learning curve and jump straight into what I will spend the next few years on."
A Learning Curve is just that. Knowledge is built on knowledge, and Shortcuts are a bad idea. You have yet to respond to any other suggestions, not just the ones I gave. You just keep on repeating what you are planning to do, here and on your other thread, and that you are somehow... Special.

"Now, how about getting down off your high horse and answering the simple question I posed."
I did that very thing. Again, check out Robert Perry's posts. A lot of them. He's an expert, and has more patience than I do at this point. There, I answered your question. Again.

"I MAY get in over my head but that's highly doubtful (b/c I won't move ahead of my own curve) but if I do, I'm OK with that."
Very well, you're OK with that. But that's why I think that you are something of a danger to the rest of us. It's not a snobbery thing, it's a safety thing, and you just don't sound very safe to me. Will we be reading in a few months of yet another expensive Coast Guard rescue?

"This was a simple inquiry folks...just trying to get some direction on what type of boat to start looking at. Geeze."
You just might pause and think about that for a bit. If you are not getting a satisfactory answer, from many respondents, you are probably not asking the right question. Lurk for a couple of months, and come back once you know the difference between a Winch and a Wench, and ask again.
By then you should have maybe half a dozen candidates, and the merits and demerits of each can be discussed.

¬Erindipity


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

If you never have sailed, how do you know you will like it before spending all this money etc.?


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

I wish you luck. Just remember that neither the dogs or God can hold a fender while you are trying to dock you boat alone. 


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## goat (Feb 23, 2014)

Mahina Expedition - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising

You're welcome.

goat


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

Don0190 said:


> If you never have sailed, how do you know you will like it before spending all this money etc.?


That's a very good question. I'm taking a chance based upon what I know about me, past experiences, the fact that I do like being out on the ocean and I think it's something I would like. I'm pretty sure it'll be an adventure, if nothing else.


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

Bleemus said:


> I wish you luck. Just remember that neither the dogs or God can hold a fender while you are trying to dock you boat alone.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I appreciate the feedback. That's one of those things I'm going to have to figure out how to do by myself. I know many folks sail single handed...so there's got to be techniques for it...and I hope to learn them.


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

Erindipity said:


> "Let me ask you one simple question. Did you see in any of my posts where I may have implied I did not intend on learning what I need to learn before taking the next step.?.?.?"
> Yes, several times. You are dismissive of what others tell you that you need to learn. And note that there was no Learning Straitjacket- there were a lot of different suggestions, from different perspectives.
> 
> "Have you ever sailed a boat before?"
> ...


The *SOLE* purpose of this thread was to learn what type of boats someone in my position should be looking at. That's it. This thread wasn't started for any other purpose. Like I said, I'm on information overload and I'm unsure where to begin with regards to what type of boats to be looking at. I'm just trying to narrow down my search so I can start studying up on the kind of boat I'm going to need. That's it.

This thread wasn't intended for discussing the merits of learning how to sail, how long it should take, etc, etc, etc. I plan to do all that as I go through this process.

The ONLY purpose of this thread was for folks to point me in the right direction with what kind of boats to be looking at. I don't want to waste my time reading and studying up on boats that aren't going to be what I'm looking for.

I'm not being "dismissive". I'm just looking for specific information and these threads are getting side tracked. Thank you for the suggestion to look up Robert Perry's posts. I will do so.


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## cshrimpt (Jun 8, 2015)

AAAC said:


> If you didn't catch my first post, I'm VERY SERIOUSLY considering jumping both feet first into the sailing/liveaboard lifestyle. It's been a dream of mine for 25 years and I now have the chance to make it happen. That being said, I have no idea what kind of boat to start looking for.


First thing you need to do is determine what type of boat you want. The most basic choice is monohull vs. multihull.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both. That discussion would fill a book, so do your own research and don't listen to the mono vs. multi bigots.

You say you want to liveaboard as well. There are two kinds of liveaboards, liveaboards who voyage and those who use their boats as a floating condo. Note that many blue water type boats have small cockpits and interiors making long term living aboard difficult.

My boat, a PSC 34, is a capable blue water monohull, but it's tiny inside. It has the interior space of a 31 footer making living aboard a challenge. I'm going to attempt it next summer. Hopefully I won't go bonkers on it.

Once you've made the multi vs mono decision, you need to look for a boat. There is no one perfect blue water cruiser. There are however, characteristics that a blue water boat should have. Decide what attributes are important to you based on where and when you are going and compare them to the boat at hand.

A good resource is John Vigor's "The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat." It can help you decide what's right for you.

Also, keep in mind, passage making can be very boring. Even the day drip from Boston to Provincetown can be mind numbing for some.

Finally, as far as experience goes, you can learn to "drive" a sailboat in a couple of weeks. It's the seamanship skills that can take years to develop. Knowing what can and will kill you is very helpful.

That said, many inexperienced sailors have gotten the bug, bought a boat and just took off. It's doable and most have come back to tell the tale. You are more likely to wreck your boat in your local harbor than in the North Atlantic.

Good luck, good sailing,

Craig


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

AAAC said:


> The ONLY purpose of this thread was for folks to point me in the right direction with what kind of boats to be looking at. I don't want to waste my time reading and studying up on boats that aren't going to be what I'm looking for.


Ones that float and sail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Until you do you have no idea what features are part of a boat you're "looking for". The odds of a first boat being the boat you are "looking for" is slim. Only you can answer your question.

That's why I'm telling you to stop wasting time on studying boats and instead to go out and get sail time.

This is from my experience, but feel free to do whatever you want.

BTW - there are soooooooo many dreamer threads of "what boat should I get" here that you could consider reading


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## cshrimpt (Jun 8, 2015)

Erindipity said:


> Yes, this may seem rude, but better here and now instead of in Court on charges of Manslaughter.
> So some Instruction. Pay attention, whether you like it or not. Over centuries, the Rules Of the Road have been codified and translated into many Languages. (Dad worked on the 1972 English version.) These Rules are called COLREGS- In short, "Collision Regulations":


You're sailing into an unfamiliar harbor at night and all you see is a sea of red, green, white and yellow lights. All of a sudden you realize you have no idea what you are looking at.

That's the definition of fear.


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

Don0190 said:


> Ones that float and sail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Until you do you have no idea what features are part of a boat you're "looking for". The odds of a first boat being the boat you are "looking for" is slim. Only you can answer your question.
> 
> That's why I'm telling you to stop wasting time on studying boats and instead to go out and get sail time.
> 
> ...


I understand where you are coming from. Thanks for the feedback.

I hope to be a doer and not just a dreamer with regards to this endeavor. I have a window here in my life to make it happen.


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## cshrimpt (Jun 8, 2015)

AAAC said:


> Maybe I need to stick closer to a 40'er...


Also, once you get above about 38 feet, the maintenance costs start getting out of hand.

The last thing you want to do when cruising is to have to get a job waiting tables in some seedy port so you can fix some expensive system.

Craig


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

AAAC said:


> I'm hoping to get into something that is ready to sail under $100k. I might be able to go $150k but I prefer to stay under $100k...and that means the boat is ready to go to sea at that price. Thank you!!!
> 
> ...and if I find something that meets this criteria at $60k, that's even better! I am NOT wealthy. I'm retired and on a fixed income but I'm determined to make it work.


I doubt you will find a boat ready to "go to sea" at any price. One of those things you figure out over time and shopping is that buying used boat is likely one of the following: 
1. buying something someone stopped caring about.
2. buying a broken dream that never came to fruit.
3. buying something that has fulfilled a dream, and although perhaps still cared for, it's time to move on.

Yes, you might find a boat that an owner fit out, perfectly for a world cruise then up and quit the day before he left. You might also find a 1968 Superbird with 12 miles on it under a tarp in an estate sale.

My advice, if you are serious; buy a 37ish ft cruiser for 70K, plan on putting 30K into it for comfortable safe coastal cruising.

If it's reasonably well built, well maintained and well fit out vessel you can do just about anything with the proper planning.

After 40ft you cannot manhandle the boat if you need to. Something as simple as pushing a boat off a dock in a blow to adjust a fender may become impossible alone.

Now, before you decide anything. You have dogs. Are you willing to get rid of them if they cannot adapt to life underway? Not all dogs do well. If you start with a puppy you probably have a better chance, but older dogs who have never been at sea for weeks at a time? I doubt it's going to work.

Have you considered how they will like being locked below for 2 - 3 days, or longer at at time offshore, in horrible weather?

Now start looking at your first foreign port of call and how/if you can walk your dogs without getting arrested or them quarantined, possibly put down.

Don't tell us you are going to invest 100K and then have to choose between dog and boat.

I've been day sailing, by choice, with a freshly cracked rib. I can't imagine it happening alone offshore with two dogs to tend to.

My advice, again, is to pick a jump off point and just start sailing. Live aboard with your dogs, enjoy the lifestyle. Do some coastal cruising and day sailing. Forget the offshore passage - world cruising stuff. You can get to that later if you choose. Until then, there is a world of things to see just from NYC to Maine.

You are dreaming. Sometimes making dreams come true starts with baby steps.

You want a boat to start - Catalina 36 with a walk through transom so you can load/unload your dogs.


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

RobGallagher said:


> I doubt you will find a boat ready to "go to sea" at any price. One of those things you figure out over time and shopping is that buying used boat is likely one of the following:
> 1. buying something someone stopped caring about.
> 2. buying a broken dream that never came to fruit.
> 3. buying something that has fulfilled a dream, and although perhaps still cared for, it's time to move on.
> ...


*You just explained what I want to do to a "T". This is my plan. *

I appreciate the well thought out post. I *think* my dogs will do well. That being said, I still have a lot of research to do about where I can take them and where I can't.

I was thinking about starting in the Pacific...but I'm not locked into that.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I can't say what is right for you, so I'm trying to think what boat I would get. Still not sure. There was a Hinkley Bermuda 40 in our marina last year. Couldn't stop staring. She practically only fits one.  plus, being alone, you have tons of time for the bright work. 

p.s. Dogs aboard are tough. Hair in the bilge, needing to go ashore, even when howling out, and they can get as seasick as humans.


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## SeaDubya (Sep 5, 2015)

AAAC said:


> do you have any suggestions about what type of boats to start looking at (considering my criteria)??? I know this probably isn't the "best" way to go but it's how I plan to do it. Thank you...I really appreciate it!


First off...buy the boat you want. Period. Don't listen to a random person on the internet telling you what kind of boat you want. I did the same thing you want to do. My first boat was 35' long and fully loaded. It was on the dirt for years and not ready to go like you are asking for, but I did that on purpose. I had to go through every system and get everything going again. That way I know how every inch of this boat works if anything breaks at sea and I'm without help. I learned to sail MY boat, just as anyone will have to do when they get a new boat because no two behave the same.

Second, the TYPE of boat you want is an offshore boat. Don't go look for a brand, or model, or builder. That is ridiculous. The boats come off the line bare bones and untested. You want to look for FEATURES that a 40-ish foot boat has that you need and go from there. I would recommend reading John Vigor's _Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat: A Guide to Essential Features, Handling, and Gear_. It's available on Amazon and will help you chose the right boat for what you want to do. It will also help you if you find a boat that maybe doesn't have what you need, but can easily be improved. Some improvements are easier than others.

Finally, (and this is important), if you want to do it the way I did and buy the boat you WANT regardless of the size of it or your skills, be prepared to lose every single cent you spend on it. So when you go and look at a $100k boat. Ask yourself, if I mess up (being a noob and all) and this thing sinks to the bottom of the ocean, can I walk away from that unscathed? If not, choose another hobby or maybe get a boat that isn't 100% ready to go and save the dough. I spent what I was willing to lose and after a year the boat was still floating and no one got hurt. My sailing skills grew exponentially. So after that we had no problem sinking $$$ into her. If you can accept throwing $100k into a boat that may sink the day you take her out...have fun and don't look back.

Do what makes you happy and whatever you are comfortable with. Otherwise you won't enjoy the boat.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

You've received a lot of advice about sailing as many different types of boats as possible before buying, but are clearly not going to do that. That's fine. You want to jump in with both feet; that's great. 

If you want advice on what boats to concentrate on, here's my two cents:

40-50 feet is wrong. Just wrong. For a solo sailor, 40-50 feet is difficult but doable with a new design and all the latest doohickeys (electric winches, autopilot, electric windlass, etc.); for a solo sailor on a budget who can't afford the latest labor saving devices, it would be very, very difficult. For a solo sailor on a budget who doesn't know how to sail, it's just out of the question. Borderline stupid. You want room to live in some comfort, especially with dogs aboard. I get it. You just can't/shouldn't do it. And if 100K is your budget, you can't afford it anyway. Not to mention that its not a good thing to learn to sail on a boat that big. You really need to start on a much smaller boat where you can feel the effects of the changes in sail trim and rudder angles immediately.

Rob's advice above is good. If you want a later model boat, you will get the most bang for your buck with a mass market boat (Catalina, Beneteau, Jenneau, Hunter). Something in the mid 30's range (35-38 feet) sounds like your sweet spot. Lots and lots of boats that size available. If you have a week to spare, check out the "Production boats and their limits" thread on this site. Much chaff, but some wheat there about whether you can or should be taking such a boat "blue water" cruising. I think I can distill the many pages of vitriol there: the answer is a qualified "yes".

There are older boats out there too from now defunct manufacturers that are even more affordable: Cape Dory, Pearson, Columbia, Morgan. They look "salty" and seaworthy, and many are. Some of them are around 50 years old, and there are numerous threads on this and other sites that will list their pros and cons for you. In brief: they are designed more with an eye to voyaging than more modern designs (more storage space below, less living room below and in the cockpit), but they don't sail as fast or as close to the wind as modern designs. 

In short, everything is a trade-off: if you want more storage space below, the livable space suffers. If you want a bigger cabin, the cockpit is smaller. If you want the boat to sail faster, you give up some comfort when the weather kicks up. This is the main reason why you have received so much advice to figure out what you want to do with your boat before you buy one. If you sink all of your money in a world voyager with a small cockpit and cabin (but lots of storage and tankage for long voyages), you won't be as happy daysailing and overnighting. And if you buy a Catalina 36 (Rob's suggestion as a place to start, and a good one if you ask me), you won't be taking that boat across the Pacific (not without some modifications anyway).

But it's your money and your show. And for what it's worth, I think it's great that you are jumping in and buying a boat to learn to sail. Best of luck.


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## Summmitfun (Nov 3, 2013)

Your question has been asked many times before! Check previous posts & you will see many of the same replys that you have received. I would suggest:
Go to Annapolis (Jabin's yard); that is a place where you can look at MANY boats in 1 place. Then you can get a fel of what size would work for you. The San Diego area is also a area to look at.
Take a week of lessons living aboard a boat. That way you will get a feel for what you want to do, along with some experience.
Good luck,
Mike


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

Minnewaska said:


> I can't say what is right for you, so I'm trying to think what boat I would get. Still not sure. There was a Hinkley Bermuda 40 in our marina last year. Couldn't stop staring. She practically only fits one.  plus, being alone, you have tons of time for the bright work.
> 
> p.s. Dogs aboard are tough. Hair in the bilge, needing to go ashore, even when howling out, and they can get as seasick as humans.


Bummer...this might throw a wrench in things...unless they take to the boat life. I wasn't thinking about hair being an issue but it is now so why wouldn't it be on a boat. Good points.


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

mstern said:


> You've received a lot of advice about sailing as many different types of boats as possible before buying, but are clearly not going to do that. That's fine. You want to jump in with both feet; that's great.
> 
> If you want advice on what boats to concentrate on, here's my two cents:
> 
> ...


That's excellent information and the kind of feedback I need to start narrowing things down. Thank you!


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I really wonder how old and how fit you are, honestly.
There was a time when I would suggest to folks that they take a power squadron course on basic piloting and the Colregs and set sail for Hawaii from California and learn as they go. That's a trip an old lady can do in a bathtub. With the jets flying overhead every twenty minutes or so, you could check your navigation and even a complete novice couldn't miss the islands.
That was back when there really weren't any choices in what kind of boat you could purchase for the sail. Long keel, heavy displacement, slow, ponderous boats that could take almost anything mother nature could throw at them. Not so today. There are hundreds of different style boats built for a huge variety of purposes.
So bottom line, if you are heading west from the left coast, buy an old style long keel brick sh*thouse that will forgive you all your mistakes. Slow, safe and seaworthy. Doesn't point too well but it'll get you there.
If you are headed south from the right coast, the same kind of boat would do the job, but there isn't any water you'd be sailing in that that old lady in a bathtub could survive. You'll most likely be getting your butt kicked within a few days and your dogs (and you?) are going to be so seasick that they are not going to thank you.
On your first offshore passage you'll learn about reefing and steering for hours on end if your autopilot breaks, heaving to when you are so tired that you just can not go on. Just managing a decent meal in lousy weather can be one of the most challenging things a sailor has to deal with. But you'll probably survive. Whether you will want to continue sailing is another story. There are a lot of good boats for sale in the Caribbean because a bunch of folks found offshore sailing to be a far cry from what they dreamed it was.
Near shore sailing is even more difficult, because it's rocks that sink most vessels. Buoys, marks, tides, currents and other vessels all add to the difficulty of moving a boat in close proximity to land.
It's all doable without much experience, but it doesn't start getting fun until you can relax and enjoy it and not worry yourself through a couple of bottles of Rolaids a week.
Good luck.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

OP, clearly you're hellbent, but ask yourself - you're going to get this one chance to piss away some money on a boat. Are you 100% sure you want to waste the opportunity by being rash about the whole thing? 

Would it be so horrible to actually take a year and learn some stuff? Sail small boats, get some water time without the big investment etc? Also ask yourself - are you even in the right mindset for what you think you want? You're all "hurry up! Right now! Go go go!". What, you're going to transition away from this as soon as you "get out there"? 

You won't, and I 1000% promise you this. It ain't the boat, or the dream, it's you. You can't escape you. 

Anyway, clearly you're not looking for anything but validation and what you think is specific boat buying advice. So with that said, here is my purchase advice - get the most modern and well appointed Bene you can find. You'll be able to resell that the easiest. Remember this post to you three years from now. 

Godspeed little buddy.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

The OP should get a copy of the book "Breaking Seas: an overweight middle-aged computer nerd buys his first sailboat, quits his job, and sails off to adventure."

Hopefully this real life story will help the OP go about his quest a little more wisely. But I doubt it...


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Is this not the same thread, by the same OP? http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/230825-where-begin.html


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

eherlihy said:


> Is this not the same thread, by the same OP? http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/230825-where-begin.html


Maybe the OP will do as many threads as it takes to get the exact answer he desires? Maybe we are all playing "guess what boat the OP has already decided to buy" and don't realize it yet?


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

It's pretty apparent that he, as someone said, is simply looking for affirmation.

The "floaters" comment said it best. With a higher budget he could be the guy that recently got lifted off the disabled Hinckley off the Carolinas.


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

chrisncate said:


> Maybe the OP will do as many threads as it takes to get the exact answer he desires? Maybe we are all playing "guess what boat the OP has already decided to buy" and don't realize it yet?


No, I got some good info from this thread, and a little from the first one...from folks who actually answered the question I was asking. It was enough information to get me pointed in the right direction, so that I could start some more specific research. Folks (who actually contributed to the discussion) brought up a lot of good information I had not even considered...and THAT is the kind of information I was looking for.

Thank you for your feedback to date. Here's a HUGE thanks to those who contributed in a constructive way. I've got a ton of reading/research to do. This is just the beginning of this endeavor...I have a LONG ways to go and I'm looking forward to the journey.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

AAAC said:


> No, I got some good info from this thread, and a little from the first one...from folks who actually answered the question I was asking. It was enough information to get me pointed in the right direction, so that I could start some more specific research. Folks (who actually contributed to the discussion) brought up a lot of good information I had not even considered...and THAT is the kind of information I was looking for.
> 
> Thank you for your feedback to date. Here's a HUGE thanks to those who contributed in a constructive way. I've got a ton of reading/research to do. This is just the beginning of this endeavor...I have a LONG ways to go and I'm looking forward to the journey.


I hear you. Sorry I couldn't simply answer the exact question you're asking, as asked.

To me, it'd be like someone asking me "Hey, what's the best and most efficient way to beat my wife?". My natural response would be "Hey, don't beat your wife at all", only to get back in response "I got some good info from this thread, and a little from the first one...from folks who actually answered the question I was asking. It was enough information to get me pointed in the right direction, so that I could start some more specific research. Folks (who actually contributed to the discussion) brought up a lot of good information I had not even considered...and THAT is the kind of information I was looking for".

Anyway, with that said, I'd still recommend a nice Bene even if it all works out for you. They are nice boats and will take you anywhere you could possibly sail.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I'm wondering if the OP isn't underestimating the challenge of voyaging with dogs. On the long term (20-30 days or more) confinement aspect, nor on the difficulties of clearing into new countries with dogs.. there are some very restrictive rules in some countries, including outright bans and confiscations.

Spend some time on Noonsite.com.


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## ElkHunter (Dec 26, 2015)

I would suggest taking some ASA certified courses as a starting point. 101, 103 and 104 will give the basic knowledge to build on. 
I bought a 21' Macgregor with zero sailing experience and sailed for about 20 years in Idaho before getting any formal instruction. My wife and I got certified in the Florida Keys on a 41' ketch three years ago. We got our 101, 103 and 104 certifications plus logged some off shore sailing and 9 hours nighttime sailing. This past September we chartered a 34' Island Packet and spent a week on our own sailing the coast of Maine. The cost is nominal when thinking about buying a boat and sailing the world and the knowledge base will be valuable to build your sailing skillset.


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## ElkHunter (Dec 26, 2015)

I would get basic instruction first. I bought a 21' Macgregor with zero sailing experience and learned on my own over 20 years. My wife and I got ASA certifications 101, 103 and 104 three years ago. We trained in the 
Florida Keys. We had good basic knowledge learning on our own but the formal instruction has been invaluable. This September we chartered a 34' Island Packet and spent a week sailing the coast of Maine. I would highly recommend you looking into an ASA certified instruction program to help you gain some knowledge. Also, check out the sailing community in Idaho via Southern Idaho Sailing Association.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

AAAC said:


> No, I got some good info from this thread, and a little from the first one...from folks who actually answered the question I was asking. It was enough information to get me pointed in the right direction, so that I could start some more specific research. Folks (who actually contributed to the discussion) brought up a lot of good information I had not even considered...and THAT is the kind of information I was looking for.
> 
> Thank you for your feedback to date. Here's a HUGE thanks to those who contributed in a constructive way. I've got a ton of reading/research to do. This is just the beginning of this endeavor...I have a LONG ways to go and I'm looking forward to the journey.


I would suggest you pick up a copy of Royce's Sailing Illustrated. It is crammed with a great deal of information, from the bare bones basics to spinnaker handling and heavy weather sailing, presented in an interesting and fun format. No boring college lectures there!


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

capta said:


> I would suggest you pick up a copy of Royce's Sailing Illustrated. It is crammed with a great deal of information, from the bare bones basics to spinnaker handling and heavy weather sailing, presented in an interesting and fun format. No boring college lectures there!


Which Edition???

I just ordered "The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat", "Twenty Desirable Sailboats to take you anywhere" and "Desireable and Undesirable Characteristics of offshore yachts". I will add your recommendation to the list! Thanks!


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Second the Royce's suggestion.. not sure how many editions there are, but any copy will have the basics, ours is 30+ years old. Great for starting out, kinda like 'books for dummies' before they existed..


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

AAAC said:


> Which Edition???
> 
> I just ordered "The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat", "Twenty Desirable Sailboats to take you anywhere" and "Desireable and Undesirable Characteristics of offshore yachts". I will add your recommendation to the list! Thanks!


Sailing illustrated: The sailor's Bible since '56 Paperback


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## Munchi MIke (Dec 26, 2015)

Boy,
I don't know where to start. Jumping in head first...okay. Completely GREEN??!! Okay.
$100k?? Okay. Single handed GREEN!!!! NOT OKAY!!

The Coast Guard can shut you down pal if they get wind of a completely inexperienced sailor hauling ass around the harbor in a gale single handed on a forty five footer; and if negligence is at play they may charge you and confiscate your vessel. THIS IS NOT A GAME!!!
I sure as hell don't want to be anywhere near you!!
You Sir have NO idea what a flapping main can do to you in 50 knots as you try to furl it!!! (even with someone holding the helm into the weather)
Or a jib on a bouncing foredeck with a 5' sharp chop behind 60 knots on a short fetch with a lee shore and a running tide.

Do us ALL a favor and go out in a gale on someone else's boat first, then see if you can find someone who will rent you a boat; any boat and try to not drown. Then go buy a golf cart and change hobbies.

People like you come along the docks kicking fenders and trying to be all salty and sh#t and bragging about 'your boat' around the cocktails, but like 99% of boats; never leave the berth, so if you;'re just a windbag looking for camo, a nice gale oughta do you, if you're serious about learning then take classes and get a six pack license or something before EVER attempting solo sailing on ANY boat.
You endanger lives other than your own, and whatever HURRY you're in won't count for squat in a death aboard situation. You waste tax payers dollars by needing CG to rescue you and risk all their lives in the process of your self discovery.
Why the hell do you think you can just get a big boat and go out?????? Where the hell do you ever get that silly notion.??????????

On the other hand you could get your boat, live on it and make friends who will teach you and take you out on your own boat sometimes to help you learn it slowly and gradually using local knowledge and experienced prudence. You would have time to develop your skills and intuition, sailing knowledge and problem solving capabilities. You could take time and not hurry, you could survive the learning curve without killing anyone or incurring exhorbident fees fro Search and Rescue.

Some boats are rigged especially for your needs but you'll have to search for single sailor set ups. My advise; look for a boat very beamy and cozy and use it sometimes to sail in with friends.


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## Uricanejack (Nov 17, 2012)

It never ceases to amaze me how many just post negative tripe when some one asks for advice.


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## Munchi MIke (Dec 26, 2015)

It never ceases to amaze me how many 'sailors' are out there without a clue. If you're talking to me have the courage to address me personally instead of hiding behind a sideways remark.
Negative tripe is what every idiot calls knowledge. Serious and sincere concern and stern informed warnings are NOT TRIPE. Your age shows me you have yet to learn the truth about life and your place in the Cosmos so I'll hand feed you this.
DO NOT GO AGAINST THE GRAIN.

I don't mean public opinion, I mean wisdom. Experienced and knowledgable seamen have responded to this thread with very similar if not exact statements as mine above but you knee jerk types just whip out your smart mouth when it looks right not when it's appropriate and flap your tongues around like pennants in gale.

Maybe we should send this guy up to YOUR harbor and let you play dodgeball with him.
This gentleman asked for advise then he argued with it, repeatedly as I find, having gone back to read the whole thread. I myself have been sailing since 1959 and don't have time to hold anyones hand or argue inane whining.

[edited]


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Jack's comment reminds me of the Flyin' Hawaiian thread on SA - he also knew better than all the Negative Nellies and their tripe who warned him for literally years that he was building a dangerous POS.

Look where it got him - from Sausalito almost as far as Monterey IIRC before it broke up and they had to be rescued.

Learning to recognize and take good advice is one of the principal signs of maturity - all too many people never get there.

Many of them become contestants, even finalists in the Darwin Awards.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Maybe, but there are as many threads of people buying a boat and taking off with not a problem at all. They for some reason never come back to forums for some mystery reason. :wink

Sailing is easy, but some believe they are so skillful that they can not accept this.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Don0190 said:


> They for some reason never come back to forums for some mystery reason. :wink


Absolutely right - witness the aforementioned Hot Rod and the FH - he's never been heard from since.


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## Uricanejack (Nov 17, 2012)

Mr Mike
I never put your name on my post or refered to you in particular.
It was a general comment directed to all the negative posters, If you recognised your self as a poster of negative tripe, Fine and Dandy. Who am I to dissagree.
For the rest who would tell the OP, There be seamonsters out there and you will fall off the edge if you go to far. Try being possative encourage him to follow his dream with helpful advice.
Apparently, I might be younger than mike. In my brief few years upon the plannet I have found Sailing, is safe, easy, and fun.

I hope he follows his dream and he will be welcome in my Habour, I would even help him to learn to sail.

I would sugest gaining a bit of expierience idealy a sailing course before picking a boat.

PS My dog loves sailing.


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## Munchi MIke (Dec 26, 2015)

Oh Good Jack,
deny it.
You post a wise ass remark in response to my posting now you're denying it??!!
Why the hell are you just throwing comments out there if they aren't continuation of a thread??
What good does your comment add to this thread??

Instead of starting sheet with me pal why don't you keep to the topic and do what you say;
Offer him helpful advise.

[edited]

Safe Easy and FUN; yes sailing is that in a millpond or a bathtub or your little backyard pool, but after that sailing is an all consuming, demanding and potentially lethal pastime. Too many poor souls are lost at sea annually who have miriads of experience, skill and equipment but still have met their maker by accident. I would never presume to imply it is a safe easy sport that everyone can do; all they have to do is spend $100k on a 50; boat and have at it. I'm not saying it can't be done or that it hasn't ever been done; I'm doing my best to talk some sense into this guy when all he has to do is use some common sense and learn respect for the sea as well as coddling his dream with ignorance.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Doesn't appear some new member is going the take the make friends route


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

He does seem to be a bit of an angry young man but for what it's worth, the Munchkin lives on the Oregon coast - he will regularly see just about the worst the ocean can dish out.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Enough with the attacks. It _is_ possible to offer opposing opinions respectfully.


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

Munchi MIke said:


> Boy,
> I don't know where to start. Jumping in head first...okay. Completely GREEN??!! Okay.
> $100k?? Okay. Single handed GREEN!!!! NOT OKAY!!
> 
> ...


Uhhh....that's kind of the plan. I don't know why everyone wants to assume the opposite/worse. I never indicated as much. I plan to learn by doing...that's all.


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## Markwesti (Jan 1, 2013)

Hi there AAAC , my wife and I retired about 6yrs. ago and we love the semi live aboard life (just waitin' for summer to kick in) . So if I may ask , what type boats interest you ? Ms. westi and I are more the traditional types . We like lots of wood , bowsprits , boomkins , gallows , oil lamps , cutterrigs , long keels , barn door rudder hung on the stern . That type of thing... And we don't care how long it takes to get there . Anyhow if the more trad. type boat interests you , have a look at this one . They made 2 of these models , the 42 is the center cockpit the 43 is aft , both were built on the same hull . TWENDA - Westsail 42
If you like the trad type boat I think you should might consider this type , I know it's only a 32 . http://www.westsail.com/forsale/seafari.htm
Just a question , what type dogs do you have ?


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

Markwesti said:


> Hi there AAAC , my wife and I retired about 6yrs. ago and we love the semi live aboard life (just waitin' for summer to kick in) . So if I may ask , what type boats interest you ? Ms. westi and I are more the traditional types . We like lots of wood , bowsprits , boomkins , gallows , oil lamps , cutterrigs , long keels , barn door rudder hung on the stern . That type of thing... And we don't care how long it takes to get there . Anyhow if the more trad. type boat interests you , have a look at this one . They made 2 of these models , the 42 is the center cockpit the 43 is aft , both were built on the same hull . TWENDA - Westsail 42
> If you like the trad type boat I think you should might consider this type , I know it's only a 32 . SEAFARI - W32
> Just a question , what type dogs do you have ?


I honestly don't know yet. That's the purpose of these posts...to start learning what I need to look for in a boat that will do what I want to do. I'm doing tons of reading...so I hope to narrow things down some in the near future. I also might take a trip out to Seattle in a couple weeks to visit a few marinas. I appreciate your input and feedback.

Oh, my dogs are GSD's. Thanks again!


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## Munchi MIke (Dec 26, 2015)

AAC.
You are likely getting a better idea of what my fellow yachtsmen are saying to you, some vehemently, some casually; but I daresay all are sincere and concerned.
In my 45+ years as a maritime professional I have bought, sold, fixed, designed, educated, restored, commissioned, and salvaged all kinds of boats and have worked for all kinds of boat owners beginning in Australia in 1968, and continuing from '76 around San Francisco Bay for the remaining 40 years until very recently. In that time I have come across every kind of 'sailor' and boat owner in the book, and witnessed or seen the damage of a million fool hardy weekend warriors; including our illustrious Coast Guard, colliding, dismasting, holing, grounding, torching, sinking and generally creating mahem on the water.
Then there's the guy in bobby socks who strolls down the dock with his new Topsiders and his $100k convinced that he can become a sailor just by buying a yacht. Back in the '70's the Iranians would come down to the Sausalito Yacht brokers with suitcases full of $100 bills demanding to be treated like Kings, and buying boats that (thankfully) never left the dock, or if they did they ended up being rescued one way or another including enlisting someone nearby to come on board to get the beast back into it's berth; all the while waving there bad attitudes around like trophies and repulsing any and everyone in ear shot. If that was all it wouldn't matter but unfortunately every time a novice gets in deeper than he should be someone else has to save his bacon. IF THERE"S some one there to it.
I've had to rescue windsurfers that were being sucked out the Gate by a heavy ebb and heading for the Farallones, I've had to pull sailboats off the sandbar outside Zacks, I've had to tow.........never mind.
There are bona fide yachtsmen and then there are wannabees. A guy who takes his boat out once a week may become a sailor but a guy who goes out everyday will become a Yachtsman. The difference is whether it's a hobby (ego trip), or a life style. The Unites States has turned yachting into a competitive money sport and washed away a lot of the heritage and tradition in the process; leaving it wide open to misinterpretation and disrespect because the meaning and causes of maritime tradition are wrought in the blood and lives of hundreds of thousands of lost sailors who crossed oceans to discover new lands..
The gentlemen who have responded with protest to you are the yachtsmen, myself included. The people who think that we're (I'm hostile) are the armchair sailors who talk more than they act. The people who are the most shocked by your post are the people who will have to be there when you start sinking because the weekend warriors will have gone home to their time clock and their mortgage. THAT is why you have had comparisons to 18 wheelers as a driving faux pas for a learner for instance, because you haven't seemed to have appreciated the import or seriousness of the attitude you brandish; namely; that you want a 50'+ blue water yacht to solo sail and live on for $100k with ZERO experience. It sounds like more money than brains that's all.
I suggest you stop looking online for boat experience and get out onto the water. You mention Seattle. Good God, you said "down to Seattle?!" \You want to live aboard north of Seattle?? and learn to sail ......in the Gulf of Alaska??????
Whew. Get a Givens and a survival suit. Man I dunno. Take a look at Port Townsend if you have time to see what traditional boats are and talk to men there for the skinny on being a REAL sailor. Look at some wooden boats and get a nice cozy classic with soul and spirit and non toxic interior. If you go buy a piece of sheet plastic fantastic jerk off dreamboat you'll only EVER qualify as a weekend warrior even IF you live aboard (YUCK, I despise GRP) Why not fly to Panama and buy a really awesome boat there for peanuts and pick up a skipper and a crew and do something about your green garboard. Oh and get a Chapmans and give up your erroneous idea of shortcuts. Life is as long as it takes; and your seatime accrues from this moment on; there ARE no short cuts to experience; that's why you're a beginner and I'm experienced; because I have been at it as a life since '64 when I had to go to school by boat or since '59 when I sailed from Cadiz to Mallorca/Barcelona, but having a greenie come along and decide that he doesn't have 'time' to get experience and is going to take a short cut is an invalidation of those of us who have put in decades of time and energy, so don't be too casual about everyone else's decades of seatime when you ask us for help. time. information or salvation. No one HAS to save you ya know.
Peace Out


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## Munchi MIke (Dec 26, 2015)

Yea Sharkbait,
I don't think any one is against him doing this; ONLY that he do it right;
and instead of becoming a sad statistic,
he will come back here and rave over his successes.


ps I'm sure he appreciates you patting his hand for him.


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

Munchi MIke said:


> Yea Sharkbait,
> I don't think any one is against him doing this; ONLY that he do it right;
> and instead of becoming a sad statistic,
> he will come back here and rave over his successes.
> ...


You know what I'm tired of Munchi Mike...arrogant folks like yourself who ASSUME things and then go off on tirades based completely on their assumptions....which are TOTALLY OFF BASE to begin with.

You and many others have hijacked this thread and turned it into something it's not, never has been and never was intended to be. You assume the worse and give no one the benefit of the doubt. I've tried to ignore your condescending posts to date but felt it important that you understand you are sadly mistaken about where I'm coming from.

If you are remotely interested in the facts, you can go a few posts back and see where I highlighted the approach I'm trying to take with this endeavor out of one of your posts. I respect your experience and your knowledge but I don't respect your attitude. There's no reason to tear someone else apart simply b/c you already know everything they don't...but are trying to learn.

Do us both a favor...and don't assume anything about my posts in the future. My 7th grade science teacher taught me a valuable lesson about ASS U ME [ing]. To do so is to make an ass out of u and me.

Peace out.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

One can't just jump aboard and sail around the world, but the OP has never suggested doing so. One's aptitude is a huge part of how long that learning curve will be. I had a college friend who picked up a golf club for the first time and played better than most I know, who've now been playing a lifetime. He was an incredible athlete. Sailing is no different. Some will never really get it, others will do so fairly fast. Learning by trial and error has some advantages, but is by definition inefficient and time consuming, because have to wait until you experience that you're wrong to know. When those with aptitude take professional training, the sky's the limit.

When I read cautious responses, I think they're quite fair. Who's to know the OP's aptitude. When I read angry responses, that volunteer a lifetime of experience, without having been asked, and warnings of imminent doom, I think they're trying to make their accomplishments sound a bit harder than they were. Unless, of course, they had little aptitude.

Good luck to the OP.


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## goat (Feb 23, 2014)

goat said:


> Mahina Expedition - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
> goat





Munchi MIke said:


> It never ceases to amaze me how many 'sailors' are out there without a clue. If you're talking to me have the courage to address me personally instead of hiding behind a sideways remark.
> Negative tripe is what every idiot calls knowledge. Serious and sincere concern and stern informed warnings are NOT TRIPE. Your age shows me you have yet to learn the truth about life and your place in the Cosmos so I'll hand feed you this.
> DO NOT GO AGAINST THE GRAIN.
> 
> ...


You certainly _seem_ to have enough time to argue.
Not sure what pisses you off about my only addition to this thread. Perhaps John Neal just doesn't measure up to your stated sailing prowess?

goat


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## AAAC (Dec 21, 2015)

goat said:


> You certainly _seem_ to have enough time to argue.
> Not sure what pisses you off about my only addition to this thread. Perhaps John Neal just doesn't measure up to your stated sailing prowess?
> 
> goat


Goat, I found your post one of the most educational and informative on here. I greatly appreciate the link. That one post taught me FAR more than I knew and helped point me in the right direction. Thank you once again!


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

QUOTE Munchi MIke;3236585Boy,



> I don't know where to start. Jumping in head first...okay. Completely GREEN??!! Okay.
> $100k?? Okay. Single handed GREEN!!!! NOT OKAY!!
> 
> The Coast Guard can shut you down pal if they get wind of a completely inexperienced sailor hauling ass around the harbor in a gale single handed on a forty five footer; and if negligence is at play they may charge you and confiscate your vessel. THIS IS NOT A GAME!!!


Well the US Coastguard let the famous Flying Hawaiian leave despite being well informed of the vessels shortcomings.

Rarely has there been anything so clearly unseaworthy and certain to breakup in any sort of sea. Yet it was not stopped.

Yes it did break up about 50 miles off shore and yes the US coasties did rescue all on board.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

AAAC said:


> Not a sailboat...but I learn best by learning hands on and just doing it. I'm 99.9% sure I can buy a boat and learn as I go. I'd like to learn on the boat I plan to sail/live on.


I just love these posts. There's a never-ending stream of them.


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## clip68 (Jun 26, 2014)

Munchi MIke,

*Note I'm addressing you directly... 

If this is the way you offer advice, we'd rather you just leave. The folks here are *mostly* nice and helpful even though they may not agree with someone. They offer up recommendations, suggestions and the occasional diatribe when they feel very passionate about something. On the other hand, you as a new member come out screaming and frothing at the mouth at someone you don't know. You are bursting a blood vessel over some text on a screen. My polite advice is to seek out professional help and then come back later.

-CLiP


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

I was thinking we could steer him towards BS. That could be a *lot* of fun.


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## clip68 (Jun 26, 2014)

SloopJonB said:


> I was thinking we could steer him towards BS. That could be a *lot* of fun.


Oh good idea!!! I'll bring the popcorn.


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## glymroff (Apr 2, 2009)

wow...

Here comes 2cents: I agree with others that you should get on as many boats up to 45ft you can, and get lessons where/when possible. 
That said...
By all means go straight to a 40-45ft boat. I've sailed with at least 3 different couples who had very little experience and one couple that had NONE before setting out with us on a trip from the keys to st Thomas one season. All of them were on 40 plus boats. Yes they banged up a couple of docks. Yes they took a while to learn sail trim. Yes they ran aground. Yes they broke ruunning and standing rigging. But, they (we) always learned, listened to experienced people out there with us (read not here online), and carried on.

I would recommend the blue water sticky list that's probably still hanging around here somewhere. Narrow your own list to about 5 different types. Then ask this esteemed bunch about that short list.

After that I would list what you think are minimum equipment requirements and have the list add/edit that. Etc.

For what it's worth our next boat is going to be a 42-45ft. Tayana, Valiant, Bristol, Tartan and Cheoy Lee are a few we would like.


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## Munchi MIke (Dec 26, 2015)

To all of you ..... how I hope you had the most pleasant of holidays and that the new year brings you blessings in abundance. To all you newbies out there, live and learn but get out and enjoy every moment on the water you possible can. I for one will be waving gayly as you pass by. Peace love and harmony to you all.

(certain parts of this post have been edited by tdw .... who will leave it up to you all to guess which is mine and which is Sr Mike's original.)


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Munchi MIke said:


> To all of you armchair sailors, phonies, yuppies, wannabees and blog trolls.
> [edit of previously edited quote]


wow, just wow

Just why are you still here and posting? Is it to spread your joy and sunny outlook around


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## cshrimpt (Jun 8, 2015)

sharkbait said:


> You should give this place a try, it may be a good fit for you
> Sailing Anarchy Forums


LOL, if you want to give and get abuse, that's the place to go!

-C


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

My apologies if any of you find my interjection/edit to be out of order but having spent the last couple of days having to deal with the spambombers who have been infesting the site my normally placid demeanour (cough splutter) is not what it might be.

Lets face it, the OPs idea is not the most practical plan he could have but with advice and hopefully some encouragement he might well end up on the right track. Lets hope so anyway.

Everyone needs to remember that neophytes invariably ask some silly questions in the beginning. It is the way of the world but simply hurling abuse at them is not the way to go. You should save that for crusty old duffers like e.g. me. <grin> Ah me if only Jon E was here. His words of advice were invariably pearls of the first order.


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## clip68 (Jun 26, 2014)

tdw said:


> My apologies if any of you find my interjection/edit to be out of order but having spent the last couple of days having to deal with the spambombers who have been infesting the site my normally placid demeanour (cough splutter) is not what it might be.
> 
> Lets face it, the OPs idea is not the most practical plan he could have but with advice and hopefully some encouragement he might well end up on the right track. Lets hope so anyway.
> 
> Everyone needs to remember that neophytes invariably ask some silly questions in the beginning. It is the way of the world but simply hurling abuse at them is not the way to go. You should save that for crusty old duffers like e.g. me. <grin> Ah me if only Jon E was here. His words of advice were invariably pearls of the first order.


Well put tdw!


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

Thanks, Fuzzy. Good to see you around again.


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## sneuman (Jan 28, 2003)

AAAC said:


> I'm hoping to get into something that is ready to sail under $100k. I might be able to go $150k but I prefer to stay under $100k...and that means the boat is ready to go to sea at that price. Thank you!!!
> 
> ...and if I find something that meets this criteria at $60k, that's even better! I am NOT wealthy. I'm retired and on a fixed income but I'm determined to make it work.


You're too big for your budget.


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