# Scuba Diving -A Necessary Perquisite?



## RocketScience (Sep 8, 2008)

_(a search of "scuba" both here and in the GD forum resulted in "0" matches, so forgive me in advance if the question/topic has already been discussed)_

I would assume in the case of offshore passage making scuba skills would be a plus, but is it necessary?

Your thoughts?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

A plus, yes, necessary, no. If the boat is well founded, you should be able to snorkel and get to do most of what you need done. Scuba would be a plus, and make some things easier, like scraping the hull or cutting a line off the propshaft...but not a necessity.


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## Ilenart (Jul 23, 2007)

Agree with the dog. I'm planning on getting my scuba ticket next year as it would be handy. However last year I scored a rope around the prop and was able to dive 4-5 times with a snorkel and eventually cut it off. So scuba is not necessary.

Next year I may change the annual haulout to bi-annually and then scuba will come in very handy for changing anodes, scraping the bottom etc. Could all be done with a snorkel, however 45ft is pretty big to do whilst hold your breath.

I may also check out a Hooka, however their pretty pricey down here.

ilenart


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

A hookah system might be worth it in the long run, as you would have essentially unlimited time rather than just the capacity of the tanks, and you wouldn't have to worry about getting the tanks re-charged.


Ilenart said:


> Agree with the dog. I'm planning on getting my scuba ticket next year as it would be handy. However last year I scored a rope around the prop and was able to dive 4-5 times with a snorkel and eventually cut it off. So scuba is not necessary.
> 
> Next year I may change the annual haulout to bi-annually and then scuba will come in very handy for changing anodes, scraping the bottom etc. Could all be done with a snorkel, however 45ft is pretty big to do whilst hold your breath.
> 
> ...


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## RocketScience (Sep 8, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> A hookah system might be worth it in the long run ...


Didn't even cross my mind.....a great idea guys.

Found this nice little compact unit here at a reasonable price.

PowerDive's DeckSnorkel


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

We have three "tickets" to get prior to leaving for our circ:

Diving tickets, as it would be silly to sail over or around the world's reefs without having a good look at 'em.

Diesel/electric repair to at least the intermediate level, i.e. "this can wait, and this requires a pro".

Basic steel welding. (it's a steel boat).

I just finished a good book on the history of diving called "Neutral Buoyancy" and it convinced me I should do this for the fun as well as for the practicality of getting at the boat's bottom.


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## mccary (Feb 24, 2002)

*One thing that has always bothered me with Hooka*

When you dive, even shallow depths, you are breathing compressed air. That means that anything in the air you breathe is in higher quantities. I have always wondered about the the engine exhaust being sucked into a hooks and hence you would be breathing higher quantities of CO. These things have been around for a long time and I have never heard of problems, but when I took my original Dive Cert course they discussed how tanks were filled and how critical it is to not get any CO in the mix. With the Hookah your air intake is close by to the engine exhaust.

My brother just went on a cruise (big lux ship) and one of the excursions was a device that was basically a Hookah without the engine, instead there was a tank and the long hoses etc. It was called "SNUBA", a combination of Snorkel and Scuba. There was no need for certification because the tank limits your time and the hose limits the depth. You just have to keep breathing to prevent lungs from exploding.


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

I got my scuba cert and still use just a snorkel first to see if that will work to e.g. get lines off the prop. Getting all the scuba equipment on takes a while and is a pain - so snorkelling will always be the first thing to do and usually it is enough. On the other hand, there are times when snorkelling just isnt enough and for sure you arent going to clean your bottom without scuba equipment.

As for looking at fish and reefs - scuba has ruined snorkelling for me. It is still fun, floating around looking at the strange fishes and creatures. But that is nothing compared to actually being down there WITH them swimming around IN their world instead of just spectating from ABOVE it.


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## Perithead (Nov 16, 2007)

I agree with scuba being a plus but it isn't required.

I was certified a few years ago, but when I go out on my sailboat I really dont want to worry about lugging the tanks/bc/weights/wetsuits and such along. Although its really not that big of a deal the major reason is I don't have but one tank and thats one dive. You can rent them but just for a day without high costs. Then you have to have them refilled. Although they do have special compressors that you can have installed on your boat to fill tanks, but its expesive and takes alot ot maintain.

So, what I have taken up is freediving. Its pretty much the same thing as snorkeling except that you practice your breathe holding skills. Back in the summer I was practicing regularly and could do a static(relaxed) breathe hold of almost 3 minutes. The longest dive I have done is nearly 2 minutes.

The gear is a bit different also. I have a pair of freediving fins, they are the Cressi Gara 2000 HF fins. They are very long and really help you swim underwater. They give you more propulsion through the water with less kicks than smaller snorkeling fins.









Not sure if the image will work but they are the fins.

I pretty much have a normal mask and snorkel, a wetsuit and a weight belt.

I enjoy freediving a bit more than scuba diving because its so easy, relaxing and not that difficult.


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## tomaz_423 (Feb 5, 2006)

I am certified SCUBA diver (PADI advance open water) and so is my wife.
I was "sure" I want to take SCUBA gear with a compressor and everything when I go sailing.
Then I started to look at the costs and the troubles involved.
One tank is one dive. If you do not have your own compressor you need to stay close to filling stations. Then it is easy and cheaper to rent the whole gear there.
So forget to carry your gear without compressor. It is probably better to carry bikes - about same trouble and much less weight.
If you want to have your own compressor be prepared to invest a lot:
1) cost of compressor
2) cost of consumables (special filters and stuff...)
3) cost of a lot of energy consumption (either a very large generator or a dedicated engine to run the compressor. In either case this is another engine on your boat.
4) weight and space for dive compressor, el. generator, dive bottles - probably at least 4, BCDs (buoyancy), weights, regulators, dive computers, .... 
5) A lot of water needed to rinse the equipment after dive 
6) Be prepared to tolerate noise after each dive - dive compressor is loud and it takes a lot of time to fill the bottles.
7) there are countries which restrict not only usage but even carrying SCUBA equipment on board without special permits, duties paid, ...
I am still undecided for now, but bear in mind that we already own most of the gear except compressor - and I am still not sure I want to take it with me.
Diving gear need good maintenance or it does not last. 
If you keep it salty then salt crystals will ruin the valves and do more damage elsewhere
If you rinse it, but store wet you have all sorts of problems from mildew to algae, bacteria growth, ...
It is a lot of heavy, complex equipment - and one crack of the hose can make it unusable. Do you want to carry spare for everything (more costs and weight) ?
So, very tempting, but not easy to achieve.
Of course it is possible - there are sailors with SCUBA gear on board.


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## RocketScience (Sep 8, 2008)

mccary said:


> ...I have always wondered about the the engine exhaust being sucked into a hooks and hence you would be breathing higher quantities of CO....


Me too, and this is why the hookah system I linked above interests me the most -it's 12V, light and compact.

I tried Scuba once (buddy is an avid diver and gave me a "Come on, just see if you like it" lesson in about four feet of water), but I didn't care for it. My intentions with this are purely repair emergencies beyond snorkel, that's it.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

engine exhaust stays low to the water so run the intake hose up high enough to avoid the exhaust. I plan on taking a simple 110v hooka for working on the hull. if I need to run the genset I can get the intake at least 6' above and 20' away from the exhaust port at the stern; maybe further.

i would think we'd hear about problems as there are a lot of these units out there


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## NauticalFishwife (Dec 12, 2007)

SCUBA diving is one of the most relaxing sports I've ever participated in. We have wetsuits, weight belts, knives, BC's, regulators but no tanks. I like having my own BC-I feel comfortable with it and know it well. I have my equipment serviced on a regular basis just to make sure all is ok. It doesn't add that much weight on the boat or space. We keep it in mesh bags. However-heat isn't great for the hoses so be careful where you stow it. It's easy and inexpensive in the Caribbean to rent a couple of tanks and weights for the day. And you can usually dive from your dink. Neither of us are air suckers-so even a small tank gives us plenty of time. It's easy if your sailing alone to forget your basic safety rules though-don't dive alone. So if there are two of you-you need two tanks-just as easy to find a local dive shop and rent them. Get your certification-it's a lot of fun!


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

I have been a certified scuba diver since 1974 and have a rescue diver certification from PADI .But for pure fun it is hard to beat snorkling or free diving. But for serious work underwater you need an air supply. I have snorkled to scrub my hull (32') but it took several hours and I was tired . With a scuba tank it takes about 30 minutes and is much less tiring.


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## RocketScience (Sep 8, 2008)

MoonSailer said:


> ...I have snorkled to scrub my hull (32') but it took several hours and I was tired . With a scuba tank it takes about 30 minutes and is much less tiring.


30 minutes?.....wow. Can I fly you to Seattle? 

Our local marina charges $225 for a haulout and bottom cleaning -not too bad, IMO.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

RocketScience said:


> 30 minutes?.....wow. Can I fly you to Seattle?
> 
> Our local marina charges $225 for a haulout and bottom cleaning -not too bad, IMO.


There are lots of hull cleaners in the Seattle area who will clean everything below the waterline and replace zincs as necessary for much less than you are paying for a haulout. Plus, you don't have to take the boat anywhere or even be aboard, for Pete's sake.

Let me know if you want contact info.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

I have been certified (NAUI-BOW: PADI-Advanced, Rescue, Nitrox) for a long time (since '77) and wanted to combine the two sports (sailing & diving)
I am new to sailing so for the last couple of years it has definitely been the priority.
Last year I did install a dive ladder to make reboarding the boat easier.
A couple of comments: it takes a lot longer to get to the dive sites - but, if you are already there the diving is the same.
It's pretty hard to get back aboard a sailboat with a high freeboard - especially when wearing a dry suit with additional weight (moreso in salt water).
I have a locker in my cockpit that is dedicated to dive gear. I installed a backplate with eye hooks and a bungy to hold my tanks (I can store three tanks standing upright). The locker is big enough to hold my gear bag with masks, snorkels, fins (3 pairs), BCD (wing with 6# backplate), 2 reg sets plus fishing gear etc. I usually dive in a 3mm wetsuit once the water has warmed up enough.
With regards to air consumption: if you stay shallow i.e. cleaning/inspecting your hull, an 80 cu ft aluminum tank should last about 2 hours. If you stay above 30 ft you should be good for about 90 minutes. Last year I did 4 dives (from 12 - 30 feet) with one tank (each dive was 30 - 40 minutes).
I tried to inspect my hull on a snorkel, but the visibility (and temperature) are not always conducive to that (think 'brail dive').
I guess the ability to fill your tanks will be a deciding factor, but, I believe that having scuba aboard would be not only very useful but also a lot of fun.
The only salt-water scuba/sailing experience that I have was diving off Vancouver island from a friends sail boat. (did the Saskatchewan & Cape Breton and a couple of sites around Gabriolla Island). He didn't have a dive ladder so we had to take our gear off in the water, climb into the dinghy, then pull our gear up behind us and lift it over the gunwales.
I think having a walk-through transom would make life a lot easier for diving.
Hope this helps.

Just re-read Tomaz's post. He makes an excellent point about the importance of rinsing gear in fresh water after each dive. As I sail and dive in fresh water this is not an issue. You would need to have access to large quantity of fresh water to keep your gear functioning.

Getting ready to dive off my boat:










Jumping in:


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> A hookah system might be worth it in the long run, as you would have essentially unlimited time rather than just the capacity of the tanks, and you wouldn't have to worry about getting the tanks re-charged.


Just a minor correction. While the hookah is not limited as to capacity like a tank is you still must observe your bottom times as you would with a tank.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Yes, the diving history book I mentioned was very clear on the necessity of "staged ascents".


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

True, but unlike tanks, you wouldn't need to keep getting them re-filled.  So if a project stretches out past however long you estimated it would, it won't be as much of a problem. * If you've only got two tanks aboard and the job ends up requiring three tanks to complete... you've got a problem. *


sailaway21 said:


> Just a minor correction. While the hookah is not limited as to capacity like a tank is you still must observe your bottom times as you would with a tank.


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

If you are only as deep as you need to be to e.g. scrub on your hull then you are going to spend all of your time at max depth of 6 feet (probably) and most of it even shallower than that. There really isnt going to be much of an issue with bottom time under those parameters.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

sck5 said:


> If you are only as deep as you need to be to e.g. scrub on your hull then you are going to spend all of your time at max depth of 6 feet (probably) and most of it even shallower than that. There really isnt going to be much of an issue with bottom time under those parameters.


I think the point is; whether you're using a bottle or a hookah, the issues of breathing compressed air underwater remain the same.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

A rare area of agreement between Faster and I. sck5...what I was trying to convey is that the prospective hookah owner should not purchase one in the belief that he can ignore the disparity in the partial pressures between oxygen and nitrogen. He needs the same knowledge as the scuba diver to dive safely. We know from experience that what starts out as a device used to just pop down for half an hour or so to clean the hull may well become one that is used later for taking a look at that reef at thirty feet.

I offered no more information because it would be a disservice to the reader, and beyond the purview of sailnet, to offer any information that would make the novice think they were operating safely at any depth on any dive gear using compressed air. I'd recommend anyone to get certified; it's easy enough to do.


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

You really don't need to worry about bottom time if you don't go below 40'. http://www.elk.itu.edu.tr/~batman/interests/scuba/divetables/divetable1.jpg note that you can stay at 40' for 200 minutes. That is a long time!!!!

One thing I do when diving off a sailboat. I tie my tank and BC to a line and drop them overboard. Putting them on in the water is a lot easier . Then I take them off in the water and haul them up with a line. Again much easier than climbing over my transom with a tank and weights.


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## travler37 (Mar 30, 2007)

Valiente said:


> We have three "tickets" to get prior to leaving for our circ:
> 
> Diving tickets, as it would be silly to sail over or around the world's reefs without having a good look at 'em.
> 
> ...


 Steel boat?
First you need to know what kind of "steel".

Second for the price of a few dinners and you buying the rod...or wire...Most welders will give you the basics.Rest is just hood down time.Hint..Spend the money on a quick change hood..

Am across the bridge if your buying dinner.... 
Mark

sorry for the highjack


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

MoonSailer said:


> You really don't need to worry about bottom time if you don't go below 40'. http://www.elk.itu.edu.tr/~batman/interests/scuba/divetables/divetable1.jpg note that you can stay at 40' for 200 minutes. That is a long time!!!!
> 
> One thing I do when diving off a sailboat. I tie my tank and BC to a line and drop them overboard. Putting them on in the water is a lot easier . Then I take them off in the water and haul them up with a line. Again much easier than climbing over my transom with a tank and weights.


I think it would be safer to use 33' as your benchmark - regardless of what Wikipedea says - as it is at that depth that pressure has doubled. I don't disagree that bottom time is not really an issue at the shallower depths. A much bigger concern is the risk of embolism caused by poor breathing techniques (breath-holding etc.) and poor buoyancy control (rapid ascents) etc. Having proper training through a recognized SCUBA training agency would definitely make the use of huka and snuba systems much safer.


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

"You really don't need to worry about bottom time if you don't go below 40'."

Somebody can correct me if I am wrong, but this might be true with scuba where the tank will run out of air before you have to worry about decompression but not necessarily with a hookah because you can stay down as long as you like. So Sway is actually correct (!!!) that EVERYONE who goes underwater needs to learn about pressure, nitrogen, time, etc. and the best way is to just go get the cert. It isnt that hard. In fact, it is fun. Besides, the time to learn what to do when something goes wrong is BEFORE you go down, not when you are already down there.


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## sail975 (Apr 25, 2003)

We keep an 80 ft^3 tank on our boat with a regulator attached to 100 ft of low pressure hose. It is perfect for maintenance / cleaning / emergency. Simply turn on the tank, grab the regulator and go- the tank lives in the bottom of one of our cockpit lockers and with that much hose we never have to move it. Without it, trying to even find the prop in zero visibility while the boat is pitching in waves is exhausting. Trying to free a line from the prop is MUCH more difficult than you would think. With the setup it takes a fraction of the time and is much less tiring. An added advantage of our setup is that you won't be banging the tank against the hull constantly in waves. I HIGHLY recommend it...


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

sck5 said:


> "You really don't need to worry about bottom time if you don't go below 40'."
> 
> Somebody can correct me if I am wrong, but this might be true with scuba where the tank will run out of air before you have to worry about decompression


Ok your wrong. I dive a HP120 (High Pressure steel tank with a 120 cubic foot capacity) and one of the wreaks I dive is at 40-45'.
I dive allot so my gas usage is pretty good. I can do a bit over an hour on that wreak and then have an deco stop obligation. I tend not to do that to much because after an hour on the wreak, the dive gets pretty boring. On an al 80 you may be right but that falls into the category of the diver and not the tank. I guess my point is with diving every person is unique and every dive is equally unique. Assumptions get you bent.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

sck5 said:


> "You really don't need to worry about bottom time if you don't go below 40'."
> 
> Somebody can correct me if I am wrong, but this might be true with scuba where the tank will run out of air before you have to worry about decompression but not necessarily with a hookah because you can stay down as long as you like. So Sway is actually correct (!!!) that EVERYONE who goes underwater needs to learn about pressure, nitrogen, time, etc. and the best way is to just go get the cert. It isnt that hard. In fact, it is fun. Besides, the time to learn what to do when something goes wrong is BEFORE you go down, not when you are already down there.


I think the risk of hypothermia is far, far greater than the risk of DCI (decompression illness) when staying down too long on a huka system.
Although there have been very few cases of people getting bent at depths shallower than 33', all of the ones I've heard about have resulted from 'bounce' diving (generally instructors that are descending and ascending frequently in a short period of time).

Barotrauma (injury caused by pressure) would be a big concern - mask squeeze, ear drum ruptures due to improper equalization, and pneumothorax (burst lung). All of these things are most likely to occur above 33' as this is where the biggest pressure change happens. That's why a SCUBA course would be recommended - if you didn't take a course (or read these posts on Sailnet) you would not be aware of these very serious concerns.


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

flyingwelshman said:


> Barotrauma (injury caused by pressure) would be a big concern - mask squeeze, ear drum ruptures due to improper equalization, and pneumothorax (burst lung). All of these things are most likely to occur above 33' as this is where the biggest pressure change happens. That's why a SCUBA course would be recommended - if you didn't take a course (or read these posts on Sailnet) you would not be aware of these very serious concerns.


This is sure to promote diving!


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

Brezzin said:


> Ok your wrong. I dive a HP120 (High Pressure steel tank with a 120 cubic foot capacity) and one of the wreaks I dive is at 40-45'.
> I dive allot so my gas usage is pretty good. I can do a bit over an hour on that wreak and then have an deco stop obligation. I tend not to do that to much because after an hour on the wreak, the dive gets pretty boring. On an al 80 you may be right but that falls into the category of the diver and not the tank. I guess my point is with diving every person is unique and every dive is equally unique. Assumptions get you bent.


Man your computer is conservative!

I just looked at the PADI tables.

At 50' you get 100 minutes no deco limit.

On a computer (that doesn't do 'square profiles') you should get more than that. Unless we're talking repetative dives.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

Brezzin said:


> This is sure to promote diving!


Just trying to keep the crowds down!


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

flyingwelshman said:


> Man your computer is conservative!
> 
> I just looked at the PADI tables.
> 
> ...


It is repetitive. a deep dive around 100 to 120 foot for a first dive and/or second dive then the shallow dive. My big gripe about diving recreationally is the time commitment over the day so I pack allot in.


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

I used 40' AS THE NON DECOMPRESSION LIMIT IS 200 MINUTES. That is over 3 hours!!!! It is a rare person that wants to stay under over three hours on a hooka attached to their boat. Unless the water is really warm most people would get cold in three hours. 
I agree about taking a course or at least reading a book. You can die while diving. Rule number one. Always breath out while ascending rapidly!!!! If you remember this and don't go deeper than 40' it is pretty safe. Especially if you are comfortable in the water and are good at snorkling.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

MoonSailer said:


> I used 40' AS THE NON DECOMPRESSION LIMIT IS 200 MINUTES. That is over 3 hours!!!! It is a rare person that wants to stay under over three hours on a hooka attached to their boat. Unless the water is really warm most people would get cold in three hours.
> I agree about taking a course or at least reading a book. You can die while diving. Rule number one. Always breath out while ascending rapidly!!!! If you remember this and don't go deeper than 40' it is pretty safe. Especially if you are comfortable in the water and are good at snorkling.


That's great, Moon! Why don't you continue? Perhaps you could explain more about the practice of scuba diving so that no one reading this will feel it necessary to take an instructional course. Of course, every diver is the same, drinking all night before diving, and various other minor details should have no effect at all on some one just doing that forty foot dive for less than 200 minutes. It's exactly this type of half truthed response I was hoping that my gentle hint would avoid being posted.

You do not, and cannot, know whom will read your "little learn to dive in thirty seconds" post and take your advise. I believe that to be pretty irresponsible on your part. The most common injury to novice divers is an air embolism, which has nothing to do with bottom time. The brain is a particularly sensitive area for embolisms and brain tissue does not regenerate. "At least read a book" will be of tremendous use to someone unfamiliar with either buoyancy control or ascent speed. I'd reconsider posting such glib and dangerous "how-to" advise, were I you.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

Some statistics I found show that in Canada and America there have been an average of 83 SCUBA related deaths per year with 60% of those being drownings. In the United States, 3-9 deaths per 100,000 dives annually occur. The most common cause of dive-related death is drowning (60%), followed by pulmonary-related illnesses.

341 people drown a year in their bath tub.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

MoonSailer said:


> I used 40' AS THE NON DECOMPRESSION LIMIT IS 200 MINUTES. That is over 3 hours!!!! It is a rare person that wants to stay under over three hours on a hooka attached to their boat. Unless the water is really warm most people would get cold in three hours.
> I agree about taking a course or at least reading a book. You can die while diving. Rule number one. Always breath out while ascending rapidly!!!! If you remember this and don't go deeper than 40' it is pretty safe. Especially if you are comfortable in the water and are good at snorkling.


I'm not trying to nit-pic, but: "Always breath out while ascending rapidly!!!!" is a dangerous suggestion. "Breathe normally while ascending at a rate of 30ft/minute (above 33')" is the safe practice. Rapid ascents are never recommended - particularly in shallow water where the pressure differential between 4' depth increments can be enough to cause serious damage (burst alveoli for example). Ascending rapidly while exhaling is an emergency procedure for out-of-air situations. But make sure there is a chamber and an O2 tank waiting for you on the surface.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

*Again, statistics without context are USELESS and MEANINGLESS.* If only 1,000 people scuba dive and 83 die per year, that's 8.3% fatality rate... if 100,000,000 people take baths and 341 drown in the tub, that is only a 0.000341% fatality rate... making using a bathtub far safer than the near 341:83 ratio suggested by the raw numbers.

And I bet a lot more people use bathtubs, and more often than there are people scuba diving. Most people use a bath tub four-to-seven times a week I'd guess. I doubt many people scuba dive four-to-seven times a week. So, the actual number of incidents versus actual number of uses, of drowning in a bath tub is probably even than the number of people using them would suggest.



erps said:


> Some statistics I found show that in Canada and America there have been an average of 83 SCUBA related deaths per year with 60% of those being drownings. In the United States, 3-9 deaths per 100,000 dives annually occur. The most common cause of dive-related death is drowning (60%), followed by pulmonary-related illnesses.
> 
> 341 people drown a year in their bath tub.


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

Life is not idiot proof!!!!! Even with extensive training an idiot is dangerous to themselves and others. Without training a rational intelligent person can do a lot with little instruction. I started snorkeling when I was 5 years old and I am very comfortable in the water. That is the most important thing. A person must be comfortable in the water. If you are comfortable wearing a snorkle and going under you boat then adding an air supply is a very small step. PANIC is usually what kills a person while diving. But if you are comfortable in the water getting a fishing line or even a hook wrapped around you or embedded in your arm is no big deal. You calmly free yourself. If your air supply is cut off you don't panic and make a mad rush to the surface you just simply swim to the surface while exhaling. I agree wholeheartedly that someone with no experience in the water who is uncomfortable while snorkling under their boat should not buy a hooka and jump overboard. But I stand by the ideal that a competent snorkler who is comfortable in the water can use a hooka rig without great risk to life and limb. We are talking about a hooka being used to clean the bottom of our boats!!!!! Investigating a shipwreck that is 90' deep is a totally different matter. Skills underwater develope over time. Things that I do like going into downed trees to spear catfish are totallly unsafe for a novice. My wife gets freaked out night diving while I love night diving. I enjoy going into wrecks!!!! But a novice should never enter a wreck. The great thing about being a novice is that as you gain experience you are no longer a novice.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

> Again, statistics without context are USELESS and MEANINGLESS. If only 1,000 people scuba dive and 83 die per year, that's 8.3% fatality rate... if 100,000,000 people take baths and 341 drown in the tub, that is only a 0.000341% fatality rate... making using a bathtub far safer than the near 341:83 ratio suggested by the raw numbers.


I know, I know. I was just checking to see if you were awake. But still, it would probably be a good idea to wear a life jacket in the tub.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

MoonSailer said:


> Life is not idiot proof!!!!! Even with extensive training an idiot is dangerous to themselves and others. Without training a rational intelligent person can do a lot with little instruction. I started snorkeling when I was 5 years old and I am very comfortable in the water. That is the most important thing. A person must be comfortable in the water. If you are comfortable wearing a snorkle and going under you boat then adding an air supply is a very small step. PANIC is usually what kills a person while diving. But if you are comfortable in the water getting a fishing line or even a hook wrapped around you or embedded in your arm is no big deal. You calmly free yourself. If your air supply is cut off you don't panic and make a mad rush to the surface you just simply swim to the surface while exhaling. I agree wholeheartedly that someone with no experience in the water who is uncomfortable while snorkling under their boat should not buy a hooka and jump overboard. But I stand by the ideal that a competent snorkler who is comfortable in the water can use a hooka rig without great risk to life and limb. We are talking about a hooka being used to clean the bottom of our boats!!!!! Investigating a shipwreck that is 90' deep is a totally different matter. Skills underwater develope over time. Things that I do like going into downed trees to spear catfish are totallly unsafe for a novice. My wife gets freaked out night diving while I love night diving. I enjoy going into wrecks!!!! But a novice should never enter a wreck. The great thing about being a novice is that as you gain experience you are no longer a novice.


While I agree that comfort in the water is a big part of safe diving, it is very misleading - and extremely dangerous - to claim that breathing compressed air underwater, and using a snorkel have equal risks and require the same minimal training. I'm not talking about 90' wrecks either. I'm talking about the fact that once you have taken a hit off a regulator underwater, the whole equation changes. The pressure increases by 18% (14.7 - 17.37 psi) between 0 and 6 feet. Which means that the volume of gas in your body cavities increases by 18% as you ascend within the top 6 feet of depth. Down at 90 feet, a six foot depth change only results in a 5% pressure change. If you add gas to the system (by breathing off a tank or hookah) the gas volume will exceed it's original level. Try filling a balloon at depth (in a pool at 8'), tie it off and bring it to the surface. See what happens.
When you breath of a snorkel, the gas is in a closed system, so it will not exceed its original volume. Try filling a balloon at the surface and tie it off. Take it down to the bottom of the pool and bring it back up. See what happens.
I am really not trying to hijack this thread, but, having lost a buddy in a scuba accident, I really want to know that people understand the inherent risks, and get the training required to mitigate them.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

erps said:


> I know, I know. I was just checking to see if you were awake. But still, it would probably be a good idea to wear a life jacket in the tub.


And a helmet. Oh, and run jacklines with a tether and harness.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

> My wife gets freaked out night diving while I love night diving.


We did a night dive at Hawaii this fall with the manta rays. That was cool.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

erps said:


> We did a night dive at Hawaii this fall with the manta rays. That was cool.


Very cool!

I have to say I prefer night dives. Especially on reefs - all the predators are more active.

A few years ago I did the kelp beds off la Jolla at night. I thought my number was up when a large, grey shape raced through my light. I thought for sure it was a great white. I continued my dive, waiting to get chomped. The thing came back. That's when I saw that it was a seal. It stayed with me for a while then buggered off. As a post script - a short time after I did that dive, a spearo was attacked by a mako in the same spot. IIRC he fought it off with his spear.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

MoonSailer said:


> Life is not idiot proof!!!!! Even with extensive training an idiot is dangerous to themselves and others. Without training a rational intelligent person can do a lot with little instruction. I started snorkeling when I was 5 years old and I am very comfortable in the water. That is the most important thing. A person must be comfortable in the water. If you are comfortable wearing a snorkle and going under you boat then adding an air supply is a very small step. PANIC is usually what kills a person while diving. But if you are comfortable in the water getting a fishing line or even a hook wrapped around you or embedded in your arm is no big deal. You calmly free yourself. If your air supply is cut off you don't panic and make a mad rush to the surface you just simply swim to the surface while exhaling. I agree wholeheartedly that someone with no experience in the water who is uncomfortable while snorkling under their boat should not buy a hooka and jump overboard. But I stand by the ideal that a competent snorkler who is comfortable in the water can use a hooka rig without great risk to life and limb. We are talking about a hooka being used to clean the bottom of our boats!!!!! Investigating a shipwreck that is 90' deep is a totally different matter. Skills underwater develope over time. Things that I do like going into downed trees to spear catfish are totallly unsafe for a novice. My wife gets freaked out night diving while I love night diving. I enjoy going into wrecks!!!! But a novice should never enter a wreck. The great thing about being a novice is that as you gain experience you are no longer a novice.


I'm not going to argue the point that confidence while in the water is an immeasurable aid in acquiring scuba skills. And I enjoy diving and others diving stories. What I am going to object to, again, is not only the implied advise but the actual advise offered in how you can dive safely at any depth using compressed air, via tank or hookah, with minimal risk. I would suggest the responsible advise is to suggest seeking training and instruction and that we dispense with the details of "how to" and "how I did it" or, worse, "you can do this" so as not to needlessly endanger persons unknown. There are numerous risks to diving, not all in the water, and not all that involve diving to depth. Can we leave matters at that?


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

Love those Mantas. My brother ,nephew and I went night diving with the mantas off Kona several years ago and had a great time. We did several dives a day for 4 days . The mantas were the high point of the trip though diving the lava tubes at night was fun too. 
Unfortunately most of my night dives have been in freshwater lakes. Not much more than big catfish and walleyes. One night I did have to fetch the anchor as it had become wrapped around a tree. Talking about freaked. My brother in law was horrified that I was going to do a 80' night dive to fetch the anchor. He offered to buy me a new anchor. As usual it was a routine dive. I dropped off of the boat followed the anchor line to where it was tangled. Untangled the line and then surfaced. I can see how someone inexperienced with diving would freak at someone disappearing into the balck water but it really isn't a big deal. I knew the area as I had dove there several times during th eday.


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## RocketScience (Sep 8, 2008)

Fstbttms said:


> There are lots of hull cleaners in the Seattle area who will clean everything below the waterline and replace zincs as necessary for much less than you are paying for a haulout...


Of course, and no offense, but for the extra $120+- I get to inspect the bottom side *myself*. And there is no price tag IMO on 'piece of mind'.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

RocketScience said:


> Of course, and no offense, but for the extra $120+- I get to inspect the bottom side *myself*. And there is no price tag IMO on 'piece of mind'.


Hey, it's your dime.


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## RocketScience (Sep 8, 2008)

Fstbttms said:


> Hey, it's your dime.


1,200 of them to be exact.


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## tomaz_423 (Feb 5, 2006)

MoonSailer, I agree with Flyingwelshman.
Your advice is dangerous. 
It is like saying: If you can drive a car and feel comfortable, then you can fly an aeroplane. No problem, almost the same.
In both cases the last few feet are the most important and in both cases going too fast can be fatal.
Free diving is a lot different from SCUBA (or any other way of taking air under the water).
As a free diver one is used to keep the breath - and this is exactly what can kill you in you take one single breath under the water and surface.

Diving is safe and a lot of fun if you take it with some responsibility.
- take a course, memorize and use the knowledge you have learned
- always dive with a buddy
- always check each other's equipment
- do not push the limits and obey your dive computer
- if you do not feel well, do not dive.


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## tomaz_423 (Feb 5, 2006)

And to illustrate - this happened to me several years ago in the Maldives.
I was snorkeling a lot and got better and better every day. I was doing down to explore a wreck and say two divers there. 
As I had no instrument I wanted to know the depth, so I asked the diver (by signs), who showed me his gauge. It was 17 m (56 feet). 
I have pretty much used all my air at this "conversation" and used the "share air" sign with the diver, asking him if I can take one breath.
He was smart enough to clearly showed NO.
I then surfaced (I was about time).
At that time I was not a certified SCUBA diver and most likely I would quickly inhale once or twice, then probably (keeping the air in my lugs) stay down few more moments and then surface.
I had no weights, so decent is usually very fast. I was on 56 feet and I had no knowledge that I must go up very slowly and that I must exhale. . . 
The diver probably saved my life not giving me air down there.
So, please everybody: take a course before you try to breath under the water.


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

Tomaz only an idiot would think that driving a car is the same as flying a plane. As only an idiot would breath at 56' and then hold their breath as they ascended. Since you have taken a scuba class you know that most of the course is getting people comfortable under water. I have seen people choke themselves using s snorkle and panic in the shallow end of a swimming pool. BUT if someone is comfortable underwater scuba is soooooo easy. I let my 7 year old son use my scuba tank in a friends pool. His training was don't hold your breath when you surface...blow out. He had a blast swimming circles around the pool for an hour at a time. No problems as he was good at snorkling and very comfortable in the water. ALSO he was in a very controlled environment. The same contect in this discussion. We are talking about a boat owner who snorkles to scrub his boat's bottom and is thinking of using a hooka. For anyone who is not an idiot it is a very simple transition. Also someone who has taken a basic scuba course should not be an idiot!!!! Basic certification means that you can dive in a controled environment. Competence only comes with practice and being comfortable under water. Taking a dive course is a great ideal and a great way to learn to dive. But for a simple hooka rig to scrub your bottom it is not mandatory.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

One does not have to be an idiot to not know what the implications are of ingesting compressed air at depth and then ascending while not exhaling. One merely needs to have read something on the internet that says no big deal if you just listen to me for my fifteen second diving instruction.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

MoonSailer-

The problem is if someone hasn't taken a SCUBA course...* they may not understand the risks/problems that taking even a single breath of compressed air at depth can present-and may not realize the dangers of ascending without exhaling.* Saying that only an idiot would make this mistake is rather stupid, and IMHO makes you sound like an idiot. 

Please realize that there are a lot of people who have no idea what barotrauma is, or how dangerous breathing compressed air at depth can be. The fact that you have SCUBA diving experience and knowledge is blinding you to the fact that most non-SCUBA divers have no real conception of the level of danger, and instinctively, exhaling while underwater is something people generally avoid doing, since you have to inhale eventually...



MoonSailer said:


> Tomaz only an idiot would think that driving a car is the same as flying a plane. As only an idiot would breath at 56' and then hold their breath as they ascended. Since you have taken a scuba class you know that most of the course is getting people comfortable under water. I have seen people choke themselves using s snorkle and panic in the shallow end of a swimming pool. BUT if someone is comfortable underwater scuba is soooooo easy. I let my 7 year old son use my scuba tank in a friends pool. His training was don't hold your breath when you surface...blow out. He had a blast swimming circles around the pool for an hour at a time. No problems as he was good at snorkling and very comfortable in the water. ALSO he was in a very controlled environment. The same contect in this discussion. We are talking about a boat owner who snorkles to scrub his boat's bottom and is thinking of using a hooka. For anyone who is not an idiot it is a very simple transition. Also someone who has taken a basic scuba course should not be an idiot!!!! Basic certification means that you can dive in a controled environment. Competence only comes with practice and being comfortable under water. Taking a dive course is a great ideal and a great way to learn to dive. But for a simple hooka rig to scrub your bottom it is not mandatory.


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

OK OK I surrender!!!! People have no common sense!!!! Pouring piss out of a boot without getting it on their feet is beyond most people's ability. But one might think that someone with enough ability to swim under their boat with a snorkle might some how some way been exposed to basic physical science. I mean I taught my high school freshmen the basic gas laws!!!! But it is possible to manage to remain ignorant. I just can't imagine anyone without any experience or knowledge putting on a hooka rig and heading for the bottom. IMHO not blowing out while ascending is the least of possible problems. We did have an incident here at the University of Alabama where a diving student(Zacchary Moore) held his breath in a pool and died from air embolism!!!! The scuba instructor Allison Gibson was charged with criminally negligent homicide. The student was practicing emergency out of air. The student was instructed to jump into the pool swim to the bottom and remove his gear and then to slowly ascend to the surface exhaling all the way. Apparently he missed the part about exhaling. Another student testified that the instructor had told the students to exhale. So even with instruction and knowledge some people (idiots) are not safe in the water. Way back when I was getting my open water certification we had to do a free ascent from 
80'. No idiots in my class all ascended with no problems. On my check-out dive we had a diver panic and come thrashing to the surface tearing off his mask with his regulator out of his mouth. Pure luck that he didn't die that day. Diving is dangerous!!!!!! BUT IMHO free diving(snorkling) is more dangerous especially when you push the limits. Cleaning my hull underwater IMHO is much safer using scuba(hooka) than snorkling. My problem is that I want to scrub a little bit more on one breath and then stay too long and then make a rushed ascent to breath. Becoming entangled would be a real problem. With a hooka no problem. Just breath and scrub and then go to the surface when finished.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Moonsailer-

Unfortunately the widespread lack of common sense is very common.


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## MtnMike (Mar 5, 2007)

Hey here's my .02 cents worth.

To the original post, as stated before, not nessasary but would really enhance any cruising in the tropics. If you like snorkleing, you'll love diving. 

And to the rest of the conversation.... GET TRAINED if your going underwater with more than a snorkle. All would be well ,like MoonSailor stated, if you just cleaned the bottom of your boat or cut a line out of your prop. The problem is can you resist going down to that coral reef in champane clear water, or going down to see what that thingy is laying there on the bottom? I couldn't and suspect a lot of folks can't. Once you get down there and you loose air for any number of reasons, do you know what to do. If your with a buddy, as you should always be, and you have tanks you can buddy breathe to the surface. If you have a hooka, even with a buddy along, you will probably both loose air at the same time. If you don't have training and know how to do emergency accents, instict will probably kick in. You'll hold your breath and shoot to the top. End of story!! Bottom line is.....BE SAFE!


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

> As I had no instrument I wanted to know the depth, so I asked the diver (by signs), who showed me his gauge. It was 17 m (56 feet).


Hey Tomaz, do you use a special low volume mask when free diving that deep? I start running out of enough air to equalize my mask when I get down to 50 feet. I've wondered how these folks who go down to 100' and more are able to do it.


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

Blow a little air into your mask through your nose!!!! Free diving at depth can be dangerous!!!! Shallow water blackout is responsible for many "drownings". It is Physics again. As you go deeper the air in your lungs is compressed and the partial pressure of oxygen increases pushing more air into your body as hemoglobin reacts to the partial pressure of a gas. So after a while you ascend and the partial pressure of oxygen in your lungs decreases and can even get so low as to pull oxygen out of your blood!!!! With low oxygen levels you black out suddenly without warning. The effect is most dangerous for experienced divers who can hold their breath the longest. Beginners usually head for the surface long before they REALLY need to breath. I have stayed under for 3 minutes before and at the end of 3 minutes I really need to breath.Shallow Water Blackout


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

Geez, three minutes. I'm burning pretty bad at one minute and that's about all I'm good for without training more. I know how to equalize my mask, but what I've experienced is that it feels like there is no more volume left in my lungs to blow into my mask. It might be just low lung capacity, but I thought perhaps free divers were wearing a smaller volume mask.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

MtnMike said:


> Hey here's my .02 cents worth.
> 
> To the original post, as stated before, not nessasary but would really enhance any cruising in the tropics. If you like snorkleing, you'll love diving.
> 
> And to the rest of the conversation.... GET TRAINED if your going underwater with more than a snorkle. All would be well ,like MoonSailor stated, if you just cleaned the bottom of your boat or cut a line out of your prop. The problem is can you resist going down to that coral reef in champane clear water, or going down to see what that thingy is laying there on the bottom? I couldn't and suspect a lot of folks can't. Once you get down there and you loose air for any number of reasons, do you know what to do. If your with a buddy, as you should always be, and you have tanks you can buddy breathe to the surface. If you have a hooka, even with a buddy along, you will probably both loose air at the same time. If you don't have training and know how to do emergency accents, instict will probably kick in. You'll hold your breath and shoot to the top. End of story!! Bottom line is.....BE SAFE!


This is really the crux of my concern: "All would be well ,like MoonSailor stated, if you just cleaned the bottom of your boat or cut a line out of your prop."
The general assumption is that diving is most hazardous at great depths. The reality is that there are many serious risks in water as shallow as cleaning your hull or clearing a fouled prop. Without adequate training you would not be aware of these risks. Once you breathe compressed air under water, whether it be through SCUBA or surface fed via a hookah or similar device, you face potentially serious injury. The concepts are simple and the training isn't arduous, but without being told not to hold your breath, human instinct is to hold your breath underwater. It has nothing to do with common sense. It has to do with the physical properties of gases and human physiology. Without the explicit knowledge of these subjects,as they relate to breathing air under water, one would instinctively do the opposite of what is good for them.

There now I think it is official -


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## LittleMissMagic (Oct 13, 2006)

Alright, since this thread is about diving I guess I'll need to put my two cents in too! I wholeheartedly agree with Sway. There is no replacement for the basic training you receive when taking a SCUBA class. If you are a person that has lived your life in the water as Moon seems to have, 90% of a basic class will seem like BS. But if you are going to leave the surface and breathe ANY sort of compressed air, you need to understand the physics and physiology involved. 

As far as going under to free a fouled propeller, this should not be taked lightly either. Nylon rope especially tends to fray badly when you start cutting it underwater. It will quickly entangle itself around regulators and equipment if you're not careful. And God forbid you ever have to unfoul a commercial fishing net. I have spent hours in the water before with this nightmare.

GET THE PROPER TRAINING!


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Some input:

My background:
I am a certified scuba diver (NAUI and PADI)

I used to clean the bottom of my Catalina 27 using snorkle only

After acquiring scuba gear, (part of a package deal along with The Admiral), I cleaned the bottom of my boat using SCUBA

I used to SCUBA dive off my Catalina 27 in Southern California.

So, here's what I have experienced:

1) Cleaning the bottom of the boat with SCUBA was not a huge improvement than using a snorkle because:
A) At least on my boat, most of the hull was within an arm's reach with the top of the snorkle clearing the water. So, you can just hang there and get most of the bottom without diving
B) The growth always seemed to be worse at the waterline, and it only took a few dives to clean off the parts of the boat that was unreachable at the surface.
C) SCUBA diving off a 27 foot sailboat is difficult logistically, since the storage of equipment is a problem, no refills immediately available, and climbing in and out of the water is difficult. We always used our inflatable dinghy as a platform for diving, and this helped a great deal.

Here's my opinion:

Getting a SCUBA certification isn't that difficult or expensive. It's pretty fun really, and it will go a great ways toward keeping you safe, even if just using a hookah apparatus. It will also help you develop your snorkeling skills. If you are going to cruise, than SCUBA diving is a wonderful thing to do, and as a plus, you'll have those skills available for more convenient underwater repairs/maintenance.

Unless I wind up with a REALLY big boat on an extended cruise, I don't think I'd keep a full set of gear onboard. I'd snorkle when possible, and save the dives for locations where gear and air refills are available.

My father regretted never getting his SCUBA certification prior to his circumnavigation, and missed out on some wonderful opportunities.

I'd keep a small backup SCUBA system with me on the boat Submersible Systems - Spare Air SCUBA Diver secondary air supply for use in emergency/difficult situations, like a fouled propeller or stuck anchor, again, being sure that I had the certifications to make sure I could use it safely.

The bottom line is that there should be no doubt that SCUBA training will make you safer in the water, and that it would be a great opportunity to better appreciate the areas you cruise.

David


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

No matter how you do it clearing a fouled prop while at sea is dangerous. I cleared my prop several times in the Keys when fouled on a lobster bouy line. Two fears. 1. lose the boat!!!! this makes a long swim. 2. Getting knocked out when hit on the head by the boat. Once I had to cut the line and this added another danger. A knife can do a lot of damage to the human body!!!! Fortunately most of the time all that was required was a strong kick on the bouy to knock it free. They lodged between the prop and the rudder strut!!!! The one I had to cut had wrapped around the prop several times as we were motoring and the bouy had been pulled under the surface by the current. Since snorkling is more dangerous than scuba some training is advisable before snorkling. Some people try to breath while the snorkle top is underwater!!!! Drownings in Hawaii, 1993-1997 This data from Hawaii recorded more drownings while snorkleling than while using scuba. Look at figure number five.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I just happened across this thread, and thought I could direct you to an entry in my Cruiser's Dictionary on a homemade hookah that my husband made and that we used extensively for cleaning the bottom of our boat and for other shallow dive work on the boat, including clearing the prop. 

The Cruiser's Dictionary is part of the Cruising WIKI, and is free to all to use and read. Since I'm new here, I can't post a link to the wiki, but I think you'll find it easily enough with a Google search for: World Cruising and Sailing Wiki . The Cruiser's Dictionary entry is under "Hookah".

I hope it is of some help to you.

Jeanne


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Welcome to Sailnet JeanneP
If you want to run your post count up to 10 real quick drop by the 'song chain' thread in off topic. Just avert your eyes to everything else over there!!!


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## AlanBrown (Dec 20, 2007)

Tomaz raises many important points in his post and there is little I can add. 

As a PADI Instructor and frequent live aboard since 1999, I have only used the two scuba tanks I keep aboard, twice; first time to replace some missing zincs, second time to dive a great reef. I prefer to snorkel, but have the piece of mind knowing that if I ever have a boat issue that requires an air supply, I'm covered. I always keep my dive bag aboard so that I can go out with the local dive shop to visit sights I normally wouldn't get to see with a snorkel.

One thing Bahamas cruisers have to take into account is that if you are found with lobster (conch also?) in your possession, and you have scuba tanks aboard, it is possible you could be fined heavily. Evidently the assumption is that you caught the lobster illegally using scuba.

Scuba is nice, but if I wasn't already a diver, I wouldn't miss it all that much.


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## brc608 (Nov 23, 2008)

As a PADI/NAUI/TDI instructor, I will give you all this lesson for free..NEVER hold your breath, DONT come up faster than your bubbles, but really, I cannot recall anytime I wish I had brought gear with me on my boat..(Mask and snorkel aside !!)..


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## BunyipDreaming (Dec 2, 2008)

I've been looking into this also and find the Hooka gear hear in West Aus very pricey. But the local dive shop have a 'hull cleaning rig' consisting of 1st and 2nd stages and 15 metres of hose at A$275. A secondhand tank will cost between A$150-A$250. So all up $4-500.

That's less than the 'SNUBA' or other small bottle systems and you get 2-3 times the air between fills.

Anyway that's the way I'm going. I run out of puff quickly with repeated duck dives to clean off the leg and prop and a 'hull-cleaning' system would not require any licencing (apparently).

Regards
TonyM


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

Most dive shops will not fill your scuba tank unless you are certified!!! Make sure before you buy the equipment. Of course you can find a diver to get your tanks filled. It is a racket. There is no legal requirements for certification of which I am aware. If you buy a used tank check the date of the last hydrostat which should be stamped on the tank. A hydrostat is good for 5 years and will cost $10-40 dollars. I get my tanks hydrostated at a commercial outfit that mostly tests fire exstinguishers they are certified by the DOT. Dive shops usually tack on about 100% for the test. BUT it might be worth the extra cost just to avoid the trouble of taking your tank to get it tested. Air guns - Pyramyd Air Report: Scuba tank testing - hydrostatic and visual inspection


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## SallyH (Apr 19, 2007)

JeanneP said:


> I just happened across this thread, and thought I could direct you to an entry in my Cruiser's Dictionary on a homemade hookah that my husband made and that we used extensively for cleaning the bottom of our boat and for other shallow dive work on the boat, including clearing the prop.
> 
> The Cruiser's Dictionary is part of the Cruising WIKI, and is free to all to use and read. Since I'm new here, I can't post a link to the wiki, but I think you'll find it easily enough with a Google search for: World Cruising and Sailing Wiki . The Cruiser's Dictionary entry is under "Hookah".
> 
> ...


I think that the "Homemade Hooka" (in JeanneP's Dictionary HERE ) will be a good route to go - the price would be fantastic and from the piccy it looks easy enough to make. It looks really good - thanks Jeanne!
.


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