# Mississippi, Missouri Rivers - Cruising?



## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

Alrighty then...... here goes....

Who's done it, what have you learned?

I've been digging through the site and looking to see if anyone has ever "toured" or cruised up/down and through the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers.

I'm looking for stories, experiences, information and anything in the way of helpful information - has anyone ever done this, or considered doing it.

I noted there are a few mentions of persons taking boats down the Mississippi to the Gulf. I'd especially like to hear from them, with their experiences, including things like stops made along the way, sites seen, shopping excursions, issues with finding a place to dock and so forth.

Thanks!!

Rick


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## Jonesee (Nov 17, 2007)

Do a google search on "the great loop". The path makes a circle of the Great lakes, out to east coast, the ICW around the east coast and through the gulf and then back up north through the rivers and nav channels back to Great Lakes. Alot of trawlers do this.


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## ronspiker (Jun 27, 2001)

The problem is going to be the bridges. There are a lot of them and they don't move. The only way under is to unstep the mast.


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

Jonesee said:


> Do a google search on "the great loop". The path makes a circle of the Great lakes, out to east coast, the ICW around the east coast and through the gulf and then back up north through the rivers and nav channels back to Great Lakes. Alot of trawlers do this.


Already have. I'm asking here for personal experiences folks here have had.

It seems I can read all the books in the world and that's great, but getting someone to actually write their real experiences is soooooo much better 

I have looked at a few things about the "Great Loop" (and some call it the "Great Circle" - to me a "great circle" is a course scribed on a globe... but, ok )

I'm considering doing "the Great Loop" myself. My wife and I want to do this perhaps as one of the first things we do when we start cruising, before we start doing ocean travel of any sort. We've been in almost every state (I'm missing five of them, she's missing many of the western states) along the Mississippi, Great Lakes and up and down the East Coast.

Both of us have traveled extensively - on the highways and in planes... but, are thinking about how really neat it would be to see things from a completely different perspective.

And - others' experiences are certainly something we'd like to take into account!


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Jonesee said:


> Do a google search on "the great loop". The path makes a circle of the Great lakes, out to east coast, the ICW around the east coast and through the gulf and then back up north through the rivers and nav channels back to Great Lakes. Alot of trawlers do this.


I believe its usually done in the reverse flow.
Most head South on the Rivers; Miss, Ohio and through Kentucky Lake to the Tenn-Tom waterway. You than enter the Gulf at Mobile Bay.
The reason is that going against the currents on the Miss especially in the spring is not very fesible for long distances. I might be wrong and there is a memeber here that is located on the Miss that can corect me, but its very difficult to make miles when going against strong currents on the river.


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

sailortjk1 said:


> I believe its usually done in the reverse flow.
> Most head South on the Rivers; Miss, Ohio and through Kentucky Lake to the Tenn-Tom waterway. You than enter the Gulf at Mobile Bay.
> The reason is that going against the currents on the Miss especially in the spring is not very fesible for long distances. I might be wrong and there is a memeber here that is located on the Miss that can corect me, but its very difficult to make miles when going against strong currents on the river.


No, you're absolutely correct. The loop makes a counter-clockwise circle. Most folks are in the north in the summer, travel the Mississippi in the fall, winter in the Gulf and Florida and make the northward journey in the spring time. All seems pretty logical to me.

I lived in DC for 8 years right on the confluence of the Anacostia and Potomac Rivers. I used to canoe out there all summer long, took my kids out there when they were little. Never sailed it, but we watched boats and ships come through all the time.

I always thought back then how I'd like to travel down the Mississippi.

When I was a child a cousin and I built a raft. We worked for a few weeks on the thing in the spring time and dragged it to a creek one summer day. Threw our little bags full of food and water "aboard" and climbed on, poled off the "shore" and "set sail".

We found ourselves a bit later (couple of hours) in a river mouth which, basically SUCKED us out of the creek while we were trying to turn around. We had no paddles but I'd made a rudder so we were able to steer it and not hit anything.

Problem was, we couldn't stop.

We went down that river almost into Tennessee.

I've always wanted to do the "Huck Finn" thing ever since, but... on the real Mississippi and perhaps with a bit better luck, experience and good crew. hehehe.


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

ronspiker said:


> The problem is going to be the bridges. There are a lot of them and they don't move. The only way under is to unstep the mast.


So you've done this yourself?


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

N0NJY said:


> No, you're absolutely correct. The loop makes a counter-clockwise circle. Most folks are in the north in the summer, travel the Mississippi in the fall, winter in the Gulf and Florida and make the northward journey in the spring time. All seems pretty logical to me.
> 
> I lived in DC for 8 years right on the confluence of the Anacostia and Potomac Rivers. I used to canoe out there all summer long, took my kids out there when they were little. Never sailed it, but we watched boats and ships come through all the time.
> 
> ...


Very funny read, glad you survived and did not get run over by a paddle-wheeler. Good story. and Good luck with your future cruising!


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## joeybkcmo (Feb 28, 2006)

Not sure how current the site is, but I found it an interesting read
Spirit of Independence Sailboat Charter Service
They had a small sail shop in Independence Mo, built the boat at their "yard" 
and headed down the river. Never got to see the boat finished, but I did see when it was still sitting in the back lot. A boat that size sitting in the middle of Independence Mo is kind of hard to miss


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Nonjy, I forgot to mention it, but my latest addition of Lake Land Boating's Lake Michigan Ports-O-Call cruising guide has a section dedicated to the trip south and the Tenn - Tom. Lakeland Boating: Cruise Guide Michigan


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

I think that most sailboats stay off the Mississippi and instead go down the Illinois and the Ohio to get to the Tennessee river. Most of the Tennessee river is dammed so that the current is usually very slight. We have been up the Tenn-Tom and Tennessee river from Mobile to Guntersville. It would be interesting to hear about the Illinois river. Is the current too strong for practical motoring upstream?? With a sailboat going 7 knots max I wouldn't want to fight a current much over a knot or two.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

MoonSailer said:


> I think that most sailboats stay off the Mississippi and instead go down the Illinois and the Ohio to get to the Tennessee river. Most of the Tennessee river is dammed so that the current is usually very slight. We have been up the Tenn-Tom and Tennessee river from Mobile to Guntersville. It would be interesting to hear about the Illinois river. Is the current too strong for practical motoring upstream?? With a sailboat going 7 knots max I wouldn't want to fight a current much over a knot or two.


The only problem with that is that the Illinios and Ohio are not connected.


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

Yep sorry I wasn't trying to give precise directions. You go down the Ohio and then up the Mississippi to St Loius then get on the Illinois river. But by going the Tenn-tom route you avoid a lot of river miles on the Mississippi on the lower stretches where it is the largest and most heavily traveled. Again I don't have the charts in front of me but off hand I'd say you avoid 700 miles or so of Mississippi river traffic and current.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

I've been hanging out on the Great Loop List for about 10 years now. There are some cruisers with knowledge of the western rivers, but all trawlers. Search out a guy named Charles Culotta. He has cruised a lot of that area and has a website with a lot of info.
From my readings, I do think you are going to face 2 problems; fixed bridges and scarce facilities. The lower Mississippi is fairly hostile to pleasure craft.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Ed,
Its going to have to be a mast down trip almost the whole way.
As soon as you exit Lake Michigan your going to have to drop the stick, probably right at Crowley's Yard. 
Not sure when it is fesible to put it back up again.
Kentuckey Lake has some sailing and no bridges, but what happens when you reach the Tenn-Tomm? I don't know, I guess thats why the Op was asking for local knowkedge. Looks like some of us around here have heard and read about this, but not many have actually done it.


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## micksbuddy (Aug 11, 2006)

I did the great loop in 05-06, but on a trawler and enjoyed it very much, you get to see a lot of cool places along the way. The vast majority of boats doing that are trawlers, but I ran into a few sailboats including a Catalina 42 and a C&C 35. Almost everybody goes the Illinois-Mississippi-Ohio-Tennessee-TennTom-Tombigbee route to Mobile because the lower Mississippi isn't that friendly to pleasure boats and the other route is quite nice, also allowing side trips to Nashville and Knoxville, if you want. From what I understand, once you get past a 19' fixed bridge in Chicago you can carry 52' to Mobile, but quite a few people just ship their masts to Mobile as there isn't much opportunity to sail, except at Land between the Lakes in Tennessee perhaps. Skipper Bob Publications has good cruising guides for the entire Loop, including one for Chicago to Mobile that includes bridge clearances, fuel availability, etc.


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

From Mobile to Pickwick Lake on the Tennessee river you can take a 45' mast with no problems during normal pools. The only problem that I had was two railroad bridges. One made me wait about an hour the other made me wait about 5 hours and almost caused an accident. I was looking at the USACE web site and it seems that 19' on a bridge in chicago is the big problem. How strong is the current??? I am on the Tennessee river right now. Motoring up to Lake Michigan seems interesting. I noticed that there are some locks on the Illinois river. The TN river seems to have less than a knot of current most places most of the time. Might be a little more right below some dams where it is narrow.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

moon
motoring UP the Mississippi will be a task. There can be a pretty good current and there are few fuel stops and marinas in that stretch. Check the distances carefully and make sure you have the ability to make it from point to point during daylight hours under power


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Tim
The OP was asking about going down the Miss & Mo rivers. The lower Miss has plenty of air draft but not much in the way of marinas or anchorages. No idea about the Mo


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

nonjy
Try this website: Voyages of the Calypso Poet: Mississippi River
Powerboaters with Mississippi & Arkansas River experience may be of some help.

Full service marina, campgrounds, lodge, country store, live music "one of the few 'marinas' on the Missouri River"

City of Omaha Parks & Recreation marina in Omaha

Pop-n-docs Too - Cottonwood Marina - Blair, NE 68008 Upstream of Omaha; "Come by boat, come by car, come buy beer"

MRBC - Missouri River Boat Club the missouri river boat club

Lewis & Clark Recreation Area/Resort/Marina I saw sailboats in the front page picture!!

Snake Creek Recreation Area near Platte, South Dakota

I found all of these marinas and more by scrolling upstream with the Active Captain website.


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## micksbuddy (Aug 11, 2006)

I fogot to mention currents, in my experience, which was in October when the currents are reasonable, they can be quite a bit higher in the spring, the Mississippi runs about 2-2.5 kts from the confluence of the Missouri down to the Ohio, and the Ohio is about the same up to the Tenn. The Mississippi above the junction with the Missouri and the Illinois were about a knot.


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the input so far.

I've read several blogs and logs people have written on doing this and some have sailboats. They generally start in the Chicago area (at least the ones I have read thus far, and had time to skim) and head south, due to currents. And I do see some indication that going south in the fall is best as the currents are lesser, the river isn't as high and so forth.

Some of you made mention that the Lower Mississippi isn't "friendly" to sailboats... what do you mean by this? The RIVER itself, the number of bigger boats and barges or the people in general?


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

From what I've read, the lower Miss is not very cruising friendly. Lots of industry, few or no marinas, not many places to anchor and lots of commercial traffic 24/7.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

The Mo looks like it could be a fun trip...if you have a mast with tabernacle to lower it for the various bridges


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I live near St Louis, and keep my 37 Endeavour in a marina at Portage des Sioux, 10 miles above lock and dam 26 on the Mississippi. The river here is over 1.5 miles wide, over ten feet deep almost bank to bank. I sail in the river every weekend from April to early November, except for the spring floods. At that time, not only can the current increase from the normal 1-1.5 knots to bad flood at 6 knots, but there is also a lot of debris in the river, up to and including 60 foot trees! 5 miles above our marina is the mouth of the Illinois River, and I have spent many a pleasant weekend (and week's vacation) going up and down both rivers. The Illinois is always transited mast down above Peoria, because there are bridges in the Chicago area which don't open. There is a city park marina about ten miles north of the Chicago river where one can get a mast dropped, and for a week or so in spring and fall there is a local man who rents a crane and parks it in the turning basin right downtown. I came from Michigan 9 years ago in a 28 O'Day - he charged me 5 bucks a foot to take my mast down back then. No point in putting it up until you get to our marina, the channel in the Illinois is narrow enough you probably won't sail anyway. Crowley's yacht yard was not my choice, it is about 25 bridges up the Chicago River! With downtown city street traffic that could take a week! There are 6 locks - one at the mouth of the Chicago River downtown, and 5 in the IL. Those two rivers are connected by the Chicago ship and sanitary canal. 
15 miles below our lock is the mouth of the Missouri River. The bridges there are not the real problem. The MO has stronger current, nearer 3 knots in summer, narrow channel, and shifting bottom. Tough sledding even for the barges. Not my favorite kind of place in a sailboat! Geographically it seems a fun trip, but from a practical standpoint it needs to be a motorboat trip.
Up the Mississippi there are 25 locks between the mouth of the Illinois and Minneapolis, so the current is pretty well tamed. The Miss is not connected to the Great Lakes anywhere except Lake Michigan, thru the Chicago River, canal and Illinois River. I have had my sailboat up the Miss over 100 miles, thru several locks, and next year plan to go all the way to Minnesota. On longer trips I travel about 5 knots over ground upstream, 7 downstream, usually motoring because the wind is unreliable.
When they say the lower Mississippi is inhospitable, it not the geography or the people. Below St Louis there are no locks, so there is no legal limit on barge tow size. The upper Miss limits tows to 1000 feet, so the can break them only once in a 600 foot lock. In the lower Miss I have seen them 3 times that long, and I have heard they can get longer than an aircraft carrier. Then there is a lack of pleasure boat facilities, both marinas and fuel docks. You are much better off to go up the Ohio and thru Kentucky Lake, the Tenn-Tom canal, Tom Bigbee River and Mobile Bay. I have never made the trip, but have several friends who have, and talked to many transients in our marina. There are the "Loopers" and also many Great Lakes sailors who take their boats south in the spring north in the fall.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Nice post, thanks RAG, a couple of corrections though;



> Crowley's yacht yard was not my choice, it is about 25 bridges up the Chicago River! With downtown city street traffic that could take a week!


Crowley's has moved from that location and is now on the Calumet River (South Side of Chicago only two bridges which open on request), which also feed into the Cal-Sag Cannal which feeds the Illinios River.



> there is a local man who rents a crane and parks it in the turning basin right downtown.


this service is long gone, probaly right after you came through.

For Stepping/un-stepping, You can use Burnham Yacht Club, very close to the Chicago River, or Crowley's on the Cal River than proceed down the Cal rather than using the Chicago River. There are a couple of other options as well, I believe Belmont Harbor has a crane as does the Hammond Marina *(which recently just reopened). From Hammond and Crowley's you will stay off the Chicago River and bypass downtown Chicago.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hey, that's no fun! The high point of my trip from Michigan (when I purchased that O'Day) was going thru downtown, close enough to spit on a skyscraper! Local knowlege is a wonderful thing -- It has been too long since I had a boat on the water in Chicago -- although I will be on a boat in Chicago soon, on the hard inside Navy Pier! I have been to 9 of the last 10 Strictly Sail Chicago shows, and have my hotel reservations for Jan 29-31. I assume you will be there, since it is a day trip for you - perhaps we shall meet. Last year there was a Sailnetter rendevous set up but I missed it, because I got hit by a trailer truck on the way and got there too late. Shows my devotion that I got there at all! This year we are taking Amtrac! BTW, my wife called me at work the day after I made the reservations to tell me Amtrac's Chicago run was stalled due to an accident with a trailer truck!
I shall retire soon, planning to take Ragtime to Minnesota, to Kentucky Lake, to the North Channel (east of Sault Ste Marie) and the Apostle Islands in Lake Superior. Seperate trips, over a couple years. I was hoping that 2009 was the year to start these several odesseys, but I looked in the toilet the other day and saw my 401k in there! It was barely afloat.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Funny stuff Don.
Yes we are having the Sailnet rendezvous again this year.
There is a whole thread dedicated to it here.
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/off-topic/48180-announcement-midwest-chapter-afoc-meeting.html
We will get together on Friday evening for a few Sodas and to exchange stories. Also might be a Pizza night on Saturday followed by some more Sodas at the Coyote Ugly and finally if your interested family Brunch on Sunday morning. 
I take it we can count on seeing you there and I will add you to the "IN" list.

I too wish to do some cruising on the Channel and Georgian Bay in the near future and would love to see K.Lake soon.

See you in Chicago!


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

Well, pretty much you folks are talking me out of it.

I guess I'll just stay home now....


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## drgamble (Oct 28, 2008)

Rick - here's another option for you that I'm considering - Home of MR340 Race - it's a kayak/canoe race from KC to St Louis taking place next summer. I'm planning to hop in it this year (planned for August '09) and figure while I live in the Midwest I may as well jump into the Mark Twain experience and paddle the river...


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

non
can you unstep your mast yourself without a ginpole?


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

micksbuddy said:


> I did the great loop in 05-06, but on a trawler and enjoyed it very much, you get to see a lot of cool places along the way. The vast majority of boats doing that are trawlers, but I ran into a few sailboats including a Catalina 42 and a C&C 35. Almost everybody goes the Illinois-Mississippi-Ohio-Tennessee-TennTom-Tombigbee route to Mobile because the lower Mississippi isn't that friendly to pleasure boats and the other route is quite nice, also allowing side trips to Nashville and Knoxville, if you want. From what I understand, once you get past a 19' fixed bridge in Chicago you can carry 52' to Mobile, but quite a few people just ship their masts to Mobile as there isn't much opportunity to sail, except at Land between the Lakes in Tennessee perhaps. Skipper Bob Publications has good cruising guides for the entire Loop, including one for Chicago to Mobile that includes bridge clearances, fuel availability, etc.


Haven't had time to recheck this thread lately, so reading through some of it now.

This is the sort of information I'm looking for.

We're thinking of doing this in our current boat. Trailer it from Colorado to Missouri where we have friends who are a couple miles off of the Missouri and from there leaving things behind (like our vehicle, trailer and stuff we don't need) and taking some time to do this as one of our first scheduled cruises.

I'm still unsure about the amount of time the loop will take, but it appears about a year for many people, or slightly less. Once we start it will not be with a set schedule in mind, only to be in the right part of the country at the right part of the season.

I've set the boat up with this in mind (though it's likely at least a couple years off right now, and we might not use this boat) so I can easily step the mast. Both my wife and I can do it pretty easily alone, but it's really a two person job.

Anyway - that's the comment on the height of the mast.

As far as the particular path - that's something I don't know yet and every piece of information that someone else has is helpful, especially from someone who's done it, regardless of the type of boat they did it in.

If someone has sailed it, so much the better, but everything is helpful to us.

Thanks


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

drgamble said:


> Rick - here's another option for you that I'm considering - Home of MR340 Race - it's a kayak/canoe race from KC to St Louis taking place next summer. I'm planning to hop in it this year (planned for August '09) and figure while I live in the Midwest I may as well jump into the Mark Twain experience and paddle the river...


I've kinda already done that - in Kentucky as a young lad... I don't think I wanna do a raft again on a fast river. I spent a bit of time at one point UNDER the raft trying to get out from under it.

haha

However, I'll check out that race. I don't think I want to canoe or kayak from KC to St. Louis though. I've driven it many times... and it looks rough in spots. lol


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

xort said:


> non
> can you unstep your mast yourself without a ginpole?


It can be unstepped without a ginpole, however, I don't think I want to try it.

I can lift it pretty easily, but it's damned awkward to do so and if we're moving along I wouldn't try it at all. We'd have to stop somewhere.

Anyway, I built a ginpole set up a few weeks back to raise and lower the mast and it works like a charm. It doesn't use a winch system on the ginpole, instead I use a block and tackle system and the main halyard. I can rig it up in about 10 minutes and lower the mast from either behind or in front of the mast.

The reason for this was so if I was alone I can help to steady the mast with one hand while feeding out the line with the other and put the mast into the cradle.

I haven't completed the aft cradle yet - because we've had weather issues lately, snow, cold and too much wind to lower the mast; but I made a temp thing out of an 8 foot board with a notch cut into the top so I could set the board inside the cockpit.

Probably this weekend I'm going to finish that part of it - and replace some parts on the rudder mounts. When I get that finished I'll be able to use some pintles to drop into the rudder mounts off a cradle (probably be a simple 2X4 with a way to hold the mast steady when it comes down).

Anyway - with the planned set up, it should take me roughly 15 minutes to drop the mast, max, and about 3 to raise it back into place and reconnect the forestay, etc.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Rick
You should take a look at these folks:

Cruising America - Halcyon Days

They've been travelling for many years with boat & truck. An interesting variant.


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