# Skipper's Liability?



## Bryan53 (Feb 19, 2007)

I have a goal of acquiring sufficient experience and training to bareboat charter in the future, perhaps in a couple of years. I’ve a question that I haven’t seen addressed here or elsewhere regarding liability for the skipper of a charter boat with friends along to share the fun and expense. I assume the bareboat contract is between the skipper and the charter company, so if friends share in the cost of the charter, what are the liability implications for the skipper? If payment for the per-person cost of the charter is made through the skipper, does this expose him to increased liability should illness or accident occur to one of the friends/crew during the charter? How do those of you who include friends on a bareboat charter address this?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

While I don't generally charter boats, I don't see how the acting captain of a chartered boat could be held "liable" for an illness, unless it was food poisoning of some sort... 

Also, what do you mean by accident... someone tripping down the companionway because they are drunk is an accident, but so is ramming another boat or running someone over with the dinghy and chopping their leg off with the dinghy's outboard motor. 

Also, what do yo mean the per-person cost of the charter is made through the skipper? Do you mean that the skipper has paid the charter company and that each of the participants in the charter have paid him, rather than the charter company directly?? 

Also, the people I consider my friends aren't generally the kind to hold me liable, even if the accident was my fault... you seem to have a strange definition of friendship IMHO. 

You might want to think about what you're really trying to ask about and clarify the questions you ask a bit more.


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## yotphix (Aug 18, 2006)

Good answer SD. If your "friends" are likely to sue you, don't bring them to your house, don't drive them in your car, and for heaven's sake don't bring them o a boat with you! How the hell are you supposed to have any fun thinking like that?


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## Bryan53 (Feb 19, 2007)

OK. Say for example “Joe” bareboat charters a boat and invites “Sam”, his good friend, along and they agree to split the cost. Joe is the only one qualified to skipper the boat according to the charter company, so the contract to charter is between the company and Joe. During the charter trip the boat heels during a wind gust while Sam is descending the companionway steps and Sam loses his balance, falls and cracks his head open on the corner of the nav desk. Sam dies of his injury. Later, Sam’s only relative, a sister named Sue who Joe has never met, sues Joe for negligence because Joe, as skipper of the boat, allowed it to heel resulting in Sam’s untimely death. Does Joe’s status as skipper of the boat expose him to such liability?


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

I think to fully be aware of your liability in such circumstances, you'd have to have a copy of the charter agreement. I would assume, some form of liability insurance would be part of it. Of course, the best way to insure yourself, would be to have a legally binding agreement with your guests, vis-a-vis, your liability as skipper of the vessel.


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## Bryan53 (Feb 19, 2007)

Thanks for the reply PBzeer. That’s what I’m wondering- does the liability coverage of the charter company protect the skipper beyond physical damage to the boat? Or is a supplemental policy of some sort needed? I have no experience in such matters so I was wondering if this is a consideration of those with charter experience.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Bryan53-

You do realize that sailing is considered a sport with risk of physical injuries, regardless of whether it is done on a 14' Laser sailing dinghy or a 42' charter boat and that *anyone who isn't prepared to take responsibility for themselves and those risks has no damn business being on a boat. *

*"One hand for yourself and one hand for the boat"*, is a saying that has a strong reason behind it.

A liability waiver that clearly states that sailing is a dangerous sport and as such could result in injury or death is something that would cover that situation, and requires no liability insurance. IMHO, by consenting to go on the charter Sam was assuming all risks involved in doing so. Unless it could be proven that Joe intentionally did something in an attempt to harm Sam, I don't really see how Joe has any liability for Sam's own negligence.

I am getting tired of frivilous lawsuits in this overly litigious country, and feel that if people were made to pay the defendant's court costs and the plaintiff's lawyers were hit with some sort of financial penalty in cases that were found to be without merit, there would be far fewer of them.


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## Bryan53 (Feb 19, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> I am getting tired of frivilous lawsuits in this overly litigious country, and feel that if people were made to pay the defendant's court costs and the plaintiff's lawyers were hit with some sort of financial penalty in cases that were found to be without merit, there would be far fewer of them.


Amen. That's the way it should be, but it's not the current reality.


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## Sialia (Feb 14, 2006)

Hi Bryan,

I think your concerns of possible litigation are valid - despite the low likelihood of such an event. I tend to be conservative and manage risk accordingly. On my own boats, I have always carried substantial liability insurance through an umbrella policy. Check with your home insurance broker about how this would work and associated costs.

Sialia


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I just went and looked at the insurance coverage provided OR AVAILABLE by Moorings/Sunsail and it provides NO liability coverage for accident or injury to people aboard. I think Sialia's suggestion about checking up with your homeowners policy agent is a good one!


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## Bryan53 (Feb 19, 2007)

Thanks for the replies. I guess umbrella policies and waivers will need to be part of my future plans.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Bryan53 said:


> Thanks for the replies. I guess umbrella policies and waivers will need to be part of my future plans.


Sailing with less litigious people would help too...


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Sailing with less litigious people would help too


I don't think it would be the person who went sailing with you; it would be in the event of a death that the person's family would want someone held accountable. In this situation I don't think there is any umbrella policy that will cover you for the amount that the family would be suing you for. In regards to this; if you are concerned about the possibility of being sued over injury or a death it would be wise to have a standard release form that each person who crews for you signs before setting out. I know this sounds anal but if you look closely at the back of your ski lift ticket the liability release is written in fine print (among others).

Correct me if I am wrong, but another thing you might think about in terms of splitting the charter costs (which is almost always done) is the issue of skippering a vessel for hire. I realize that this is splitting hairs but in terms of "the law" if you accept any money from passengers or crew you are a charter captain and would require the appropriate license (six-pac or similar). It's possible that if each person pays the charter company directly this is a non-issue; not sure.

In any case, the skipper could be considered liable for anything that goes wrong that was within his ability to prevent. In addition both him/her (and the boat) are liable for any costs incurred by the boat or crew due to tow, salvage, search/rescue, med-evac, etc. You need to read the fine print of the charter co. paperwork to determine if you would be required to pay for any/all expenses incurred or if they are covering you under an insurance policy. I'm mentioning this (and I am not a lawyer so don't quote me) because there are many other potential sources for liability besides those who are on-board. 99% of the time it is a non-issue; but we should be aware of the potential and be prepared to deal with it if they do come up.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Bryan, a VERY good question and I suspect there is no simple answer. Liability will be determined by the laws where ever you are chartering, and, by the laws governing the vessel's flag. And, if you are all citizens of the same place, a third set of laws. 

I wouldn't even begin to guess what kind of goatfest (PG13) that could become in the various courts. Civil and criminal liabilities, maritime and international laws...and as Keelhaulin mentions, forget about your friends, because you may be dealing with vengeful estates and surviving relations.

Perhaps a liability umbrella from your homeowners or auto insurance? Or it might be worth asking a charter company if they offer some type of "skippers liability" policy as an option?

You raise a very interesting question!


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## 42ndstreet (Oct 15, 2004)

I doubt I could sue my daughter's little league coach if she hurt herself for sliding into second base on his signal. That is because softball can be dangerous and requires a "hold harmless" agreement. This is definitely the first place to start.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

KeelHaulin said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but another thing you might think about in terms of splitting the charter costs (which is almost always done) is the issue of skippering a vessel for hire. I realize that this is splitting hairs but in terms of "the law" if you accept any money from passengers or crew you are a charter captain and would require the appropriate license (six-pac or similar). It's possible that if each person pays the charter company directly this is a non-issue; not sure.
> 
> In any case, the skipper could be considered liable for anything that goes wrong that was within his ability to prevent. In addition both him/her (and the boat) are liable for any costs incurred by the boat or crew due to tow, salvage, search/rescue, med-evac, etc. You need to read the fine print of the charter co. paperwork to determine if you would be required to pay for any/all expenses incurred or if they are covering you under an insurance policy. I'm mentioning this (and I am not a lawyer so don't quote me) because there are many other potential sources for liability besides those who are on-board. 99% of the time it is a non-issue; but we should be aware of the potential and be prepared to deal with it if they do come up.


If the charter is in the US, yes, a six-pack would be the minimum required. However, if the charter is in a different country, then it would be subject to thae laws of that country, or possibly the country where the vessel is registered.


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## Bryan53 (Feb 19, 2007)

KeelHaulin said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but another thing you might think about in terms of splitting the charter costs (which is almost always done) is the issue of skippering a vessel for hire. I realize that this is splitting hairs but in terms of "the law" if you accept any money from passengers or crew you are a charter captain and would require the appropriate license (six-pac or similar). It's possible that if each person pays the charter company directly this is a non-issue; not sure.


Well, you've opened the door to the issue I only hinted at in my earlier scenario- the significance of the money trail. It seems I've read somewhere, but I can't find it now, a requirement from one of the charter companies that payment be made solely by the charterer (AKA the skipper). This would mean that others who participate would make their payments to the skipper, which opens up this whole can of worms. Does the skipper become a paid professional under such circumstances? If this payment requirement is not true for most charter companies that would, I guess, relieve some of the burden on the skipper- meaning each party makes payment directly to the charter company. Again, I'm a neophyte in this arena so I'm looking for guidance from those who've done this before.


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

I can't say on the money issue because usually it is a shared cost to rent the boat; and most always the person chartering the boat (the skipper) collects the money prior to paying for the charter. On one side you could say that the skipper did not in any way profit from the eneavour so he is not running a vessel for hire; on the other side it could be viewed as a defrayment of costs to the skipper. It would take a maritime lawyer to provide a correct interpretation. I only think it affects you as a skipper in the sense that you may not be compliant with the USCG CFR reg which you -could- be cited if they ever found out and were bothered by the issue of who paid for what. Like I said before; shared expense of rental is commonplace and I don't think the USCG is going to enforce the law against those who share the cost of a boat rental. The law is aimed at people who are operating a vessel for profit and minimal assurance of the safety of the general public who will be buying passage on the boat (boat and captain USCG approved).

On the issue of increased liability; well let's just say that the buck stops with the Skipper and the vessel, in all circumstances (bareboat, charter, private owned, etc). You are no less liable in any scenario; except that if you own the boat it is also an asset (in the eyes of a civil court)!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Bryan-
From the charter company's point of view, the reason they want payment in full from just one party is probably nothing to do with this issue. But rather, if there is any disagreement (i.e. the boat isn't ready, someone wants to cancel because there is a hurricane, someone else thinks that might be fun) the charter company wants to deal with ONE PERSON and not try to play "Solomon and the Baby" with six or eight people.
They deal with too many people every week to start multiplying that by six or eight as parties are made up. And then, if five guys ante up and the sixth bounces his check for a deposit...You may see why no charter company wants to be in the middle of that.<G>

42ndStreet-
You've apparently not met the concepts of "informed consent" versus uninformed consent versus adhesion contracts versus...a whole lot of legal briar bushes and thornpatches. What you might live with for a softball game (banned any aluminum bats lately? Or followed the lawsuits in high school football after necks and spines have broken?) could be very different from what a grieving widow would unleash against the guy "who killed my husband".

You could easily spend $50,000 by simply having to appear and defend yourself--with attorney--in two or three courts or venues as the case was moved around, right or wrong.


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## chrondi (Mar 24, 2004)

Let me doubt that any waiver clause, private agreement or official participation in the charter fee and signing of contract whatsoever will prevent a potential direct or third party liability case against you *if you are officially declared the skipper of the boat*. Hence for those minding about getting involved in any court proceedings I would advise them to *designate* officially the *guest as skipper* and thus reserve the *right to sue him/her* in case something goes wrong!


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## 42ndstreet (Oct 15, 2004)

HelloSailor, I am actually a licensed insurance agent in NY State. Yes, you are correct in stating that you may spend alot of money just defending yourself. Unfortunately that is true in any legal situation. This would also mean that the deceased family has an equal amount of money to throw away. No attorney will work for free. Especially if there is no proof that the skipper killed his friend by being purposefully neglectful. Again, I believe this situation absolutely requires a hold harmless agreement. The same agreement you would have your roofing contractor sign.
Also, I think the softball coach is safe.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

42ndSt-
So, you are saying that a "hold harmless" agreement would take priority over legislation, including the Jones Act and foreign legislation that might hold the skipper responsible?

I think the softball coaches have been fairly safe, but the school districts still have had to ante up. (Hey, team sports are _combat _emulations, participants are _supposed _to get injured.)


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