# CS30 for Solo Nonstop Circumnavigation via Cape Horn?



## zAr (Feb 22, 2009)

I've already asked this on the owners list and got some pretty good responses but thought I'd also put the question here and see what happens.

I have a CS30 which I recently bought with the intention of sailing Lake Ontario.

Now I'm looking at it and wondering...with considerable upgrading can it be used for a *solo* circumnavigation? 300+ days *nonstop*, *singlehanded*, avoiding Panama and Suez, via the Southern Ocean, rounding Capes Horn and Good Hope? What are your thoughts? Do you know of any specific weaknesses?

Someone shared a story where the hull/deck joint separated and the mast pumped in heavy weather. Others thought the hull shape and fin keel may not be ideal. That's the kind of useful info I'd be interested in.

Also, bearing in mind that my search range would be limited to the great lakes area and budget would be $50k CAD, which boat would you vote as a more likely candidate?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The major weakness of the CS30 for a voyage like that is stowage. I don't think you can store 300+ days worth of food aboard, and if you're not stopping, you're probably going to starve.

While a CS30 might be suitable, properly upgraded, for a circumnavigation, it probably is a lousy choice for a NON-STOP circumnavigation attempt. If you do a non-stop circumnavigation that passes through the antipodal points, then you're looking at a minimum of 24,000 NM of travel.

If you figure, on a good day, the CS30, which has a hull speed of about 6.7 knots...and would be lucky to do 5 knots on average.... you're looking at about 100 nm a day or 240 days of sailing. Figure a half-gallon of water a day, and you're looking at a minimum of 150 gallons of water alone, adding 25% for safety margin. That's 1300 lbs or so of water. Now, food-if you figure on three meals a day with some snacks, you're looking at about two-to-three pounds of food a day, unless you're talking about extremely concentrated high-calorie foods like emergency rations. Call it 2.5 lbs x 240 days x 1.5 for spoilage and emergencies.... that's 900 lbs. of food.

*That's over 2000 lbs. for food and water on a boat that displaces only 8000 according to its specifications.* That doesn't count the tools, clothing, gear, emergency spares, fuel or personal items that you would probably want/need along for a non-stop voyage.

Now, you might think that you can get a watermaker and use that... but prudent sailors would still carry enough water to finish their voyage without relying on the watermaker, cause if it dies on you, and you don't have enough water along, you're DEAD. Besides, watermakers are complicated, failure-prone beasties, especially on a smaller boat that doesn't have the stowage to carry spare parts.


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## zAr (Feb 22, 2009)

SailingDog, you aren't kidding. I would be tossing the engine, holding tank and fuel tank, replacing them with freshwater tanks. The boat is currently about an inch below the waterline with full tanks and the engine, I guesstimate I would have room for about 900 lbs of supplies before I displace to the waterline and can probably push to an inch above it on the assumption the boat will get lighter as I go. I find I can live on 32 gallons of fresh water a month, less if I supplement seawater for dishes, etc., but the watermaker will likely be a super critical component anyway.

But yes, I don't know exactly how much square footage dehydrated meal packs would take up, especially for 240-300 days. I'll have to build storage space but yes, there's the issue of tools, replacement parts, etc. I'd probably end up measuring and weighing every little nut and bolt.

I could really use the experience of anyone who has done the same sort of trip.


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## Michael K (Feb 27, 2006)

Why not simply revise your circumnavigation a bit. Sir Francis Chichester stopped once in Sydney Australia which, I'm certain, would make your plans much more plausible. Given he was underway for a total of 226 days and Gypsy Moth IV is 54' LOA, you should feel no shame in such a modification.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I'm not going to say never, as anything with proper planning is possible.

With that in mind, while it is in French, I keep thinking in the past I have seen an english conversion, a blog about a french man that did what you are toying with in a Jeanneau Sun Rise 34. This boat was built between 1984 and 1989.

Alain Maignan fait son tour du monde - page 7 | alainmaignan.sportblog.fr

Some food for thought to add to the nay sayers, with a yeah vote/possibility

Marty


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The problem with dehydrated foods is that if you are limited on water, they're useless. Canned foods, especially pre-cooked ones like beef stew or canned pasta mixes, can often be eaten cold...dehydrated foods can't really be eaten without reconstituting them.


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

You should read Jesse Martin's book _"Lionheart"_ -- he did a non-stop solo circumnavigation on an S&S 34 (at the time the youngest to do it).

Robin Knox Johnston's boat _Suhaili_ was 32' (he was the first to do it).

Of course, more telling than length would be displacement.

FWIW, you don't need to carry a year's worth of fresh water with you from the beginning -- you can make fresh water along the way (if you have enough fuel), or more realistically capture rainfall to refill your supplies.

Maybe not non-stop circumnavigations, but there have been a lot of other very impressive voyages in even smaller boats (e.g. _"My Old Man and the Sea"_ by David and Daniel Hays).

edit: another book to read -"Tinkerbelle" by Robert N. Manry

So yeah, I think it could be in the realm of possibility. Obviously it would require a lot of thought and careful planning.

If you get serious about something like this, you should definitely talk to Bruce Schwab and others who've done it, like Tony Gooch.

Good Luck!


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## zAr (Feb 22, 2009)

Michael K: Unfortunately it wouldn't be much of a record if I did stop. 

Blt2ski and Catamount: Good tips and links, thanks, I'll follow up on those.

SailingDog: Good point, I hadn't thought of that. See, that's the kind of thinking I'm looking for. I'll have to rejig my calculations to take that into consideration, see if it's doable...


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Not to wander too far from the OP's original point, but I think diet will be the hardest part of the journey. All those dry pasta meals look great on paper, but try eating them for a few days in a row, that is about how long it takes for all the salt in them to make it feel like your skin is trying to crawl off of you. I think it would take quite a lot of changes for most people to be able to cook well enough to survive for a year at sea without stopping for supplies. No matter how much you think you like Bush's baked beans, at some point you're not going to be able to stand the thought of eating another can of them.


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## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

Here's a nice example from a very experienced cruiser with 2 1/2 circumnavigations under his belt. It's a list of what they provision for two, for a 12-week cruise. So, for you that'd work out to about 24 weeks. Half again should cover it. They cruise on a nicely modified 29ft Pearson Triton. Click on the "Boat Projects" link to see the integral water tanks that were added.
Atom Voyages | Recipes and Provisioning for Cruising Sailboats


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

*


zAr said:



Michael K: Unfortunately it wouldn't be much of a record if I did stop. 

Click to expand...

*


zAr said:


> If this is your goal? Then most likely you are already too late to set any kind of a record. You will need to do it for self gratification alone. Nothing wrong with your idea, and you get my BEST WISHES in making it successful. I am not familiar with this vessel you have bought, but already it seems a wiser choice could be made .........*i2f*


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## zAr (Feb 22, 2009)

imagine2frolic said:


> If this is your goal? Then most likely you are already too late to set any kind of a record. You will need to do it for self gratification alone.


Sorry, I mean going on record as with the World Sailing Speed Record Council for the solo, non-stop, unassisted category for my length of boat. You're right, it wouldn't set any speed or duration records, but I'm hoping to set a record for another kind of first which I probably shouldn't get into at the moment as this is all still in the theoretical/planning stages.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I2F's point about it being too late to set any records is a pretty good one. It isn't likely that you'd be able to beat the existing speed records for a solo-circumnavigation, given your choice of boats. You probably don't qualify for either the youngest or oldest to circumnavigate non-stop solo either.

Personally, I don't see much point in doing a NON-STOP solo circumnavigation unless you're attempting to break or set a record of some sort. *IMHO, by doing a non-stop circumnavigation, you are essentially depriving yourself of one of the great pleasures and advantages of travelling by sailboat-the chance to mix with the local cultures in many parts of the world and to see it from a perspective that is not possible by most modern forms of transportation.* In many cases, there would be places you could stop that are not accessible by other forms of modern transportation in any reasonable form.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

I consider the CS 30 a very nice racer/cruiser and think it a great boat for how you currently use it.

But it would seem a woefully poor choice for the purpose you describe. Other posts have mentioned some of trhe reasons that is true, additionally it is not a particularly tough boat, and even if you threw a lot of money at one, you can't make it into something the designer and builder didn't intend it to be. Just because it's a CS, doesn't mean it has the qualities of a boat like the CS 36T, a boat far more suitable for such purpose.

I recall a CS 30 was abandoned a few years ago during one of the Bermuda races...while facing conditions not a fraction of what you might face...there must be something to learn from their experience.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

seabreeze_97 said:


> Here's a nice example from a very experienced cruiser with 2 1/2 circumnavigations under his belt. It's a list of what they provision for two, for a 12-week cruise. So, for you that'd work out to about 24 weeks. Half again should cover it. They cruise on a nicely modified 29ft Pearson Triton. Click on the "Boat Projects" link to see the integral water tanks that were added.
> Atom Voyages | Recipes and Provisioning for Cruising Sailboats


Good suggestions on the Atom page, but they also resupplied often with perishable foods such as fresh fruit, vegetables, etc, and rarely made passages that lasted for more than a week or few. They even kept ice on board when they were able to. Still, the page has some good suggestions like sprouting seeds and using TVP, etc.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

If you are tossing the engine, how do you propose to generate electricity - wind, solar? At a bare minimum you want nav lights. A VHF radio would be beneficial. Radar would be out of the question. Take at look at Lin and Larry Pardey's videos and books to see how to live without an engine.

Another good read - First Lady by Kat Cottee. She has a provision list you might find useful. She also documents the trials and tribulations of her 189 day voyage.


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## zAr (Feb 22, 2009)

SailingDog: I agree with you that I'd be depriving myself of that pleasure, I plan to do the more leisurely sailing a bit later. I'd like to do the circumnav while I'm still young and strong.

Sailingfool: Yup, that boat was the one that had the mast pumping and hull/deck separation. After the crew abandoned ship the boat wound up sailing itself all the way to Nova Scotia or Newfoundland before finally sinking.
Not to worry, I'm not locked into any one boat yet. It probably isn't worth the expense to strengthen the CS30 when the cost of doing so could buy a real bluewater boat that's more up to the task. 

JackDale: Yes, I'd be using solar and wind. One of the decisions I face is whether to go on my own budget and go low tech a la the Pardey's or to seek sponsorship and load the boat with all the latest gadgets and doodads.

Wind_Magic: What I like about the Atom pages is they tend towards vegetarianism (apart from eating fish), so their diet would closely resemble my own (minus the fish). I have to say James Baldwin's stories have really inspired me.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

It wouldn't be much of a record if you succeeded as you would only be smaller by 2 feet, unless someone has done this in a smaller boat already. I don't think a CS30 would survive the Southern Ocean legs.

If you really want a record do it in a 25 foot boat.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

mitiempo said:


> I don't think a CS30 would survive the Southern Ocean legs.


I concur









Strong winds of the Southern Ocean generate some of the largest seas on the planet
Photo: Wayne Papps


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

A sailor from my marina, Paul Lim, is off the horn right about now in his Spencer 35. He is well prepared including an aluminum dodger - not frame but the whole dodger. He left Puerto Montt on December 8th bound for South Georgia. He fully expects to have a rough time of it in a boat much better suited for this than a CS30. The Spencer 35 is the boat the late Hal Roth made famous. I own a CS27 and they are well built boats, but the CS30 is a fairly flat bottomed boat and is in my opinion not the design for that trip.

ps Paul is sailing from 50 south to 50 south as he considers going through the channels as "daysailing".


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## zAr (Feb 22, 2009)

jacktempo: I'm aware of what awaits me down there, otherwise I wouldn't be wanting to do it. Beautiful pic by the way.  

mitiempo: Thanks for the tip re: the Spencer 35. I've just loaded it up on yachtworld and I like what I see, there are a few out in BC and they don't seem too badly priced. I should probably also seek out Paul Lim when he returns, I'm sure he'll have a lot of advice.

By the way, the record I would be seeking wouldn't have anything to do with speed, duration or boat length. Sorry, I can't get into it now - too early.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

You're not less than 14 years of age are you?


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## zAr (Feb 22, 2009)

mitiempo said:


> You're not less than 14 years of age are you?


LOL, no, I'm not. :laugher


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## nansmith (Mar 29, 2011)

*Paul Lim*

Hey Brian, I found you because I was looking for something on Paul Lim, whom you seem to know. It worries me that you don't think Paul's boat is suitable for this trip. He left Cape Town 6 days ago, heading South to catch the Westerlies in the Southern Ocean. I know very little about sailing, but am keen to learn stuff, probably because I am always anxious when the people I love expose themselves to danger. Paul seems to be competent and he is absolutely not a fool, so I have to assume that he will be okay. can you fill me in on the dangers of being in the southern ocean in a boat like his at this time of the year. he is planning to sail to victoria non-stop, going north through the Tasman sea up to Hawaii then home. Nobody will tell me how long this could take - if I even knew roughly it would help. regards nan bowley-smith


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

um......nansmith,

You had better reread Brians post again, he mentiones the boat Paul has as a MUCH better boat than the OP wants to use. Good to know Paul is doing well on his trip, not sure what or how the OP is doing........

Marty


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

A fool and his life are soon parted.....


Or have I got that wrong? Its was a fool and somethin anyways... 

I concur with the concurers above.

Its not to say that 300 days in the southern ocean would kill you, but the chances of it happening, considering it must take in a portion of autumn or winter, would be so high as you fall into the ding-a-ling category of extreme adventurers like the French jerk who tried to walk across the Australian desert with a pound of cheese and a litre of water. (The plastic of the water bottle would have survived)

Remember the teeny-boppit American girl who tried in a specially set up, not costs spared 40 footer and she sank the thing. The Aussie teeny-weenie was in a pretty good boat even though it was only a 34 footer it was an ocean racing thoroughbred (I did some long offshore races on a sister vessel)

I don't really know what a CS30 is but as you mentioned you are on a forum of owners they may be able to tell you about its abilities.

What is possible is to do a cricumnavigation STOPPING and dayhopping (ie weather windows) via the Straits of Magellin or the Begal Canal (I've forgotten which one is the better to do); then the tropial pacific; north of Australia; Madagascar; South Africa dayhopping the Cape of Good Hope, all dopne in the correct seasons.


Remember your death really wrecks a long life time of enjoyment 




Mark


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

nansmith said:


> He left Cape Town 6 days ago, heading South to catch the Westerlies in the Southern Ocean.


The guy is mad. Going into the Southern ocean in Autumn.
Have a look at the percentage days of Gales down there. And remember, you have to go a fair way south to get the Westerlies, otherwise its variable and gales from every direction. He needs to be under 40deg S for the westerlies. The pilot is for April.


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## nansmith (Mar 29, 2011)

*paul lim in the southern ocean*

surely an experienced sailor would know about conditions in the southern ocean at this time of the year and not risk his life for some quest to circumnavigate the earth. has anyone sailed the southern ocean at this time of the year before? How long will it take him to reach the comparative safety of the Tasman sea?
Where can I go to check weather conditions in the southern ocean?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Nan

I specifically said Paul Lim's Spencer 35 IS a suitable boat for the trip - but a CS 30, a much lighter boat is not. Paul is heading south of Australia and New Zealand and then up the Pacific, possibly stopping in Hawaii according to his email. As far as gale percentages, he may be a bit late but the gale percentages in the southern summer are high as well. 

Mark

I don't think Paul is mad and he is well prepared. He has already sailed from Victoria B.C. to South Africa, rounding the Horn along the way. I hope he has a fast safe trip.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

nansmith said:


> Where can I go to check weather conditions in the southern ocean?


PassageWeather - Sailing Weather - Marine Weather Forecasts for Sailors and Adventurers

Click on the world map and that takes you to a closer up map. Click on the lowest one down and that gives you right the way down to the antartic coast.

Push Animate for the weeks worth of fun.

There is only one rough patch this week. Check Fridays weather. I just cut an pasted it below

mitiempo: I dunno if the guy is mad or not and I am not taking a shot at him seriously. I just have a very set rule: _Never be in the wrong area in the wrong season_! I learned the hard way by sneaking into a Cyclone area during the cyclone season "Huricane Holes" they said.... fine till a Cat 5 came a visitin!

Mark
PS that purple bit in the chart below is more than 50 knots. Not 50 knots, _MOR_E than 50 knots...


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Just thought I might do a weather update.

Remember the great circle route from the Cape to Tasmania goes south of the black blob in the lower middle of this weather chart. Most cruisers do go north of the blob, the Kerguelen Islands, but not all that far north.

So anyone still wanna go down there now?


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## nansmith (Mar 29, 2011)

*southern ocean friday 1st april*

Hey Mark - you will have to talk me through some of this. I figure the notches on the sticks are wind speed. Does the wind come from the direction of the other end - in other words the end without the notches on.
Paul Lim should be 900 miles into his voyage (if he has managed 100 miles a day). I dont think he would be anywhere near the Kerguelen islands now.
So if he sailed south to get into the westerlies as fast as possible, would he be in the danger zone today?
I am trying to figure this stuff out with no teacher and absolutely no sailing knowledge so forgive my idiocy.
nan


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Nan,
The wind direction points towards the end with no 'sticks' attached to it. Think of it as 'half of an arrow'. The sticks at the other end do indicate speed. A full stick is 10 knots, half stick 5 knots so \\\\______ is 40 knots pointed to the right. They use a filled in triangle for 50 knots /\______ etc.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Nan

Here is a map you can compare with the weather map.


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## nansmith (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks for the map Brian. It looks terrifying.
nan


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

mitiempo said:


> You're not less than 14 years of age are you?


Well if you are you are going to break some record otherwise why do you want to do it? Not the circumnavigation, but the non stop?

If you are lucky it will be possible. Some years back a Frenchman had done that in a 34ft 20 year's old light jeanneau:

Alain Maignan fait son tour du monde | alainmaignan.sportblog.fr

And last year an Italian has done the same in a ultra light 22ft boat, so unless you pick a really small boat you are not breaking any records either.

So why the non-stop? Are you in a hurry? Do you have a tight schedule?

Regards

Paulo


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

If you don't stop you will miss the best parts of a circumnavigation.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

My boat, Oh Joy, went around the horn from East to West but she's listed as a 35 footer, long keeled and specially equipped. She's also 50 years old. There are boats out there to do this on. The CS30 ain't one of them...

Edit: No, I wasn't aboard her when she did it. I wouldn't mind trying the other direction though.


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## lizmcarthur (Aug 2, 2011)

*Paul Lim rescued off coast of Oz*

I'm a reporter at CFAX 1070 in Victoria. We have a story regarding Paul Lim's rescue off the coast of Western Australia today. Looking for someone who might know Paul, how to reach him, or a bit about his journey.

Thanks,

Liz McArthur

newsroom: 250.381.6397 
[email protected]


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I've started a new thread with 2 news stories from Australia about the rescue here http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...aul-lim-rescued-off-australia.html#post757538


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## LarissaTimesColonist (Aug 2, 2011)

Hi,
I'm a reporter with the Times Colonist. If anyone knows Paul, please message me at ljohnston @ timescolonist.com'
Thanks,
Larissa Johnston


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