# Can't get husband on board with cruising



## notacoolkid

Good morning,
I don't seem to be thick skinned enough to be in the online community (been burned before on CF among other places just for asking what I thought was a simple question), but after reading the generally civil discourse here on Sailnet, I am going to give it one more--maybe one _last attempt.
I am a 42 year old female, exceedingly happy married, with two wonderful children. We are currently looking for a boat in the 32 to 36 foot range to weekend on in the Chesapeake Bay. We have some experience but are excited to learn more, and to share a lifelong dream with the kids.
Now, the issue at hand is this: "lifelong dream" seems to have different definitions in our household. I guess I'm just impulsive, but when I read sentences like "Just go!" and "Life is too short!" it really resonates with me. We have savings. I have the kind of job where I could leave to go cruising--for a year, for maybe 5, maybe more--and find employment fairly easily in the US if needed. My wonderful, practical, over-thinking, supersmart, financially conservative husband, on the other hand...well, I only half-kiddingly call him my Dream Crusher. He doesn't have a problem with weekending, maybe taking a week here or there for a more extended trip. I can't get him to see things from my angle. It's like we're trapped by our security in this suburban life, and I don't want to just stay here and work til I die. He shows me spreadsheets, and talks about all the financial freedom we'll have in 10 years or so when our youngest graduates from high school. But that's TEN YEARS. Not only do I not want to wait, but I want to get out there with our kids!
I know I'm not the only one in this situation. How do you come to terms with it? Sorry this post is kind of convoluted; I get a little spun up when I'm thinking about this. Thanks for any advice or commiseration._


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## Ninefingers

You say you're looking to buy. Does this mean you haven't owned a boat before? If so, that's a tough one, he may not be able to envision it all until it's actually happening. Especially if he is a linear thinker. Which is sort of a pickle isn't it?

Have you chartered together?


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## SVAuspicious

Welcome to SailNet.

We don't know much about you and you're asking for opinions so what we suggest may not work for you.

You say you have some experience. Great. Keep sailing - other people's boats and charters. A charter in the BVI for the whole family will certainly be fun and provide some insight into getting along on a boat.

There is a great deal to be said for a bunch of weekend and week-long sailing as part of preparing to go cruising.

Depending on what your professions are many people can stay engaged while cruising. Communications is key.

You might start now doing research on home-schooling. How old are you kids?

The SSCA Annapolis Gam is coming up https://ssca.org/dashboard/#/annapolisgam/ . You might want to come.

dave


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## caberg

This isn't really about sailing. You could substitute "sailing" with just about anything. You two have different life goals. So I think the obvious answer is you need to find a compromise. Or don't, and go on your own, but it doesn't sound like that's part of the dream.


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## krisscross

Take it one step at a time, Nota. Get a boat, start sailing, start doing overnight trips, gradually spending more time on the boat. Maybe your husband gets to like it. If not, at least you tried. There is no way to force anybody to radically change their lifestyle. You would not want it done to you either. But if you guys have a great time on the boat, chances are he will change his mind about long term cruising. If not, I'm available.


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## Turnin Turtle

Some people like eggplant... others don't.
it does no good to keep on telling the person who doesn't like eggplant : "But its sooooo yummy!" They'll just look at you like you're nuts. (because you are for trying to force your likes/dislikes on them.

He doesn't want the cramped cruising life. He wants a nice roomy house that doesn't bounce around when the speedboats ignore the no wake zone signs.


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## Arcb

First of all, I wouldn't worry about getting burned here, CF is ultra elitist, these folks seem much much nicer. I find over there if you don't rub elbows with the Pardeys or Harald V they intentionally make it uncomfortable for you. It really should be called YF- for Yachting Forum. Here you get differences of opinion yes, but not nasty just for kicks.

I don't think you are at all alone in your situation, it's quite common, I have had many of the same issues as you.

I don't have a solution for you, but maybe a couple of ideas to try? You could take him on a nice sailing charter vacation to Antigua or somewhere. After spending a week floating around English Harbour he might be a little more excited about the idea.

You could try buying a boat and living aboard during the summer months, it is very likely to grow on him, it's a pretty enjoyable life style.

Get him to watch Captain Ron if he hasn't already, I bet that movie has inspired more people to go cruising then any other piece of modern art.


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## notacoolkid

Many thanks for the thoughtful replies. I know I didn't tell you too much about our situation, I was just trying to get my feelings down and posted.
Yes, we have experience, we've owned a boat before--lived on it and sailed on the Left Coast, taken ASA101-103. Having experience and being experienced are two different things, of course, but we're no dummies and we're excited to learn. We are in between boats, but looking.
It really seems to be a matter of degree. I am more "all in," he's more "crawl before you walk." He loves sailing as much as I do, and has the chops to be a great fixer of electrical/mechanical systems on any boat we get. It's just that we have talked so exhaustively over the years about cruising, read books, even came very close to making a big move and living aboard again...only to come to an abrupt halt when faced with the financial realities. I have a great job, make good money, excellent security...which is why it's a trap! In a backwards way, if we had less, we'd have less to give up.
I think the reason I am asking all this is because I suspect that more often than not, the roles are reversed, and the sailing wives are the tough sells on the cruising life. I don't hear too much about the husband being reluctant to embrace the uncertainty of such a big change.


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## zeehag

welcome to the other group of rowdies... nicer rowdies and fewer bullies than cf, btw....
as for your issues with hubby-- as far as i can see-- get a good weekender boat, mebbe an ericson 35, and sail the hell out of it. have fun. do weekends and short lil adventures. let the pure enjoyment of sailing happen. often as possible.
as kids grow so do long term plans. donot say much--just do htis and see how hubby dearest develops. there are many places to spend a couple of days with good sailing and adventuring.. make fun and enjoyment.
learn how to repair diesels and do electrical work so he is not burdened by the needs of the boat, and enjoy it. be happy.
happiness is contagious.


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## capta

We see more and more "commuter cruisers" out here every year. These folks still have the house, the white picket fence and the minivan, though most are beyond the soccer mom stage. More like the grand parents stage. They come down and sail X number of months a year then go back to their 'real' lives the rest of the time.
I agree with those above who suggest you begin with some charters and progress from there. If you do buy a boat now, buy a newer one in good very condition and well maintained. The quickest way to turn off someone on the edge of boating is the constant hassle and expense of repairs, and often older boats have more of those.
Good luck.


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## mstern

First, welcome. There are no stupid questions, but unfortunately, there are a**holes who feel obligated to argue about that point. Hopefully, none will show up here.

It seems that this issue comes up frequently, although it usually presents itself the other way around (he wants to cruise, she doesn't). No matter, the problem is the same, and IMHO, it has little to do with sailing. You could substitute any two conflicting, big picture goals (kids, no kids; city or country; party, non-party) and have the same problems and potential solutions.

I started to type up what I hoped to be a thoughtful answer, and it started sounding a bit too "Dear Abby" for my taste. So I'll just stick with my experience for what it's worth.

We have the opposite issue in my family: I want to sail; not full time cruising, but I'd like to spend a week or so on the boat at a time and cruise to local spots. No one else in my family ever shared this goal. I hoped they would take to it more once we bought a boat. But my kids never really took to sailing. They were early grade school when I bought my boat, but my son grew to be at best neutral about it. My daughter used to like it, but now she'll go for an afternoon, but just to make me happy. Both are out of the house now.

My wife likes fair weather outings, but for no more than a few hours at a time. She has zero (one might say negative) interest in overnight cruises, let alone spending a week on a boat. When the weather is the slightest bit rough, we have to turn around and come back in. She would be happy if I had sailing buddies to take these trips with, but I have come to accept that she and I will never cruise into the sunset. We have talked about how disappointed I am that I will never have my dream (that I've had by the way since I was a kid).

Fundamentally, she cannot participate in this dream of mine without great fear/pain/effort. And it's not like she hasn't tried sailing; we've had the boat for over 15 years, and we have done an overnight. To me, it seems rather selfish to demand more of her or to punish her for not trying "harder". So she feels guilty and I feel disappointed. But we live with it because we've decided that the most important thing is that we are together.

I don't think there's much more I can say without pretending to be a psychologist or marriage counselor. Have either of you read any of the multitude of "I didn't want to go cruising and my spouse sort of forced me into it, and it turned out to be [fantastic][awful]" books that are out there? They may offer some insights for you too.

Best of luck in figuring this out.


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## Ajax_MD

The "suburban, financial security" you speak of is often referred to as "the golden handcuffs."

Caberg is right, this doesn't have much to do with sailing. This is a marital issue best worked out between you and your husband without the intervention of strangers on the internet.
The least intrusive advice I could give, is for you to agree on a boat and start weekending, and hope that once he actually gets out there sailing, that your respective points of view come into closer alignment.

Meaning, either you begin to see things more his way, or he begins to see things more your way.

You might go sailing for a week or two, and decide that you hate longer trips, that your husband was right and that weekending is the right mix. He might go sailing and decide that you were right, and let's ditch suburbia for a Halberg-Rassey 53 and a world cruise.


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## denverd0n

"Just go" can be scary. Especially to someone who has a reason for valuing financial security (past problems, family issues, whatever).

You probably just have to go slow. That's kind of a contradiction. "Just go" and "let's take our time" don't really go together. Still, you are going to have to work your husband into a position where he feels comfortable stepping away from whatever financial safety-net it is that he is holding onto. That is not going to happen overnight. It is going to take some time. To at least some extent, I think you need to resign yourself to that.

Of course, some people will say, if he won't go with you then just go by yourself. Heck with him! Leave him behind (your kids, too, I guess) and get on with your life... That's an option, of course, but it doesn't sound to me like that is an option you are willing to take. So maybe you can compromise where you go sooner than he would like, but later than you would like. Neither gets EVERYTHING that they want, but both get SOME of what they want.

Good luck.


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## alctel

Can't you get a boat, put it in a marina near where you live and move onto it? You'd probably end up saving some money over having a separate boat/house, get liveaboard experience while still keeping your job for a few years.

It'd also give you time to really tear down and refit the systems before you are in the middle of nowhere.


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## jephotog

I am in a similar boat, pun intended, trying to convince my wife that we need to just go now. 
My wife enjoys sailing for an afternoon and really had a great time on the 3 days we spent in Catalina, but it is not an all consuming life long goal like for me.

Unfortunately we have had two major life turning over events in our life this year. The side effect of these changes being we are not clinging onto the status quo of careers and suburban living. I doubt this would have happened without a total life upheaval. I keep showing her images of places we could sail, sharing stories about what it's like to travel the world by boat. Last month I started showing her potential cruising boats. She is a Chef and sits in the U-shaped galleys and says, "I could live on this boat." The other night she brought up ways to rearrange our life to get "this" going forward. I feel my wife and I are a lot closer to go now than you and it would probably take 2+ years to make it happen.

Our future plans are to spend a week onboard an Olson 34 at Catalina next month. The couple we planned to sail with may be backing out and I am trying to convince her she knows more about sailing than she thinks, she certainly knows more about sailing than the majority of my boat partners. She convinced me to spend X-mas with her brother in Seattle. I agreed with the stipulation that we can go boat shopping while up there. She is excited for both.

For you, I like Zeehag's idea about baby steps and even the Ericson 35. I own an Ericson 32 in a partnership where I have done a lot of work on the boat. This allows me to learn about maintenance and the scope of work involved in boat ownership. It has allowed my wife to spend more time on board and realize how much fun a weekend at the marina is. I would not recommend my steps in turning around a spouse's opinion on casting off, but I think making sailing more and more a part of your life will start getting you closer.


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## wrwakefield

Nota,

As others have mentioned, and as I suspect you already know, this isn't about sailing...

My observation has been the golden handcuffs are difficult for those with low risk tolerance to shed... and many [most?] are quite suited to them for their entire lifetime.

Looking at this simplistically, ask yourself how can you achieve and share your goals without exceeding his risk threshold? [Whether it be financial security, fear of failure, peer displacement, image of self worth, etc.]

Sometimes you can modify goals to stay within another's risk tolerance and achieve a win-win. [Sensibly managing each other's tolerances...] But only you two can figure that out.

So I'm no help so far, but can offer a couple of other sources that may provide you with additional frames of reference:

If you haven't already, consider joining the closed Facebook group _Women Who Sail_ [the Admiral's favorite forum...] and propose this same topic.

Another would be to watch this excellent Ted Talk about the merits of risk [try to look past the focus on children to capture the salient points...] by Christopher Barnes.






Wishing you the best with your endeavors.

Cheers! Bill


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## Landwalker

notacoolkid said:


> It's like we're trapped by our security in this suburban life, and I don't want to just stay here and work til I die. He shows me spreadsheets, and talks about all the financial freedom we'll have in 10 years or so when our youngest graduates from high school. But that's TEN YEARS. Not only do I not want to wait, but I want to get out there _with_ our kids!


So, I feel like I need to preface this by saying "I am not an experienced sailor, and only just started learning this year, so what follows is _*not*_ the advice of a sailor on how to get a spouse on board with cruising [Side-note: My long-term goal is also to convince my wife to go cruising]."

So with that disclaimer out of the way:

I can completely sympathize with your husband. I recently went through what basically amounted to a mid-life existential crisis over our own financial situation, and yes, spreadsheets were involved and calculations to determine years-to-financial-independence and all of that. It was a... sobering experience. And I can see how incredibly easy it would be for someone who is spreadsheet-inclined to get hung up on "sticking to the plan," especially when any deviation from the plan can be reflected on the spreadsheet and you see your time-to-freedom slowly inching further into the future.

If you want to try to win over your husband to the idea of going cruising for a year _now_, my first word of advice would be "take the advice of people with more life experience than me, who have all already posted." But, being someone who has the same dream, I'll offer some alternative advice anyway: Engage your husband on his own "battlefield," so to speak. If your husband falls back to the spreadsheets and the financial freedom in ten years, have spreadsheets of your own. Come up with a budget for cruising, so you can say "This is how much it will probably cost us to do this" (and be realistic about it). Show him (and yourself) what effect a year of cruising will have on "the plan." See if there is a way to fit "the dream" into "the plan" without wrecking the end-goal of financial freedom. Maybe you can spend a year cruising, and that pushes your financial freedom goal back by two years-is that worth it to you and, more importantly, is that a modification to "the plan" that he can accept?

The short version is this: In war, you want to choose the battlefield, but in matters of persuasion, you can't win unless you look at the situation on the other person's terms. Think about cruising the way your husband thinks about cruising, and look for a way to fit the pro-cruising argument into the spreadsheet-laden lens of "the plan."

...

And if _that_ doesn't work, long weekend trips are always there as a bridge.


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## 4arch

I would have almost thought you were my wife except for a few details being different! 

We got farther down the road toward fulfilling the dream – we were about 8 weeks away from casting off when we pulled the plug. Full time cruising was my wife’s dream and I was happy enough weekending on the bay. When we took a breath from our preparations we realized there were a lot of factors we hadn’t fully thought through. 

For me it really came down to feeling that we could have more fun with the time and money we would have spent to cruise for a year or two by spreading it among a wider diversity of experiences. The luster of the dream started to wear off when I realized almost all my spare time and money were going to the boat and the cruising kitty. We like to travel places that aren’t accessible by boat and we do have hobbies outside of boating and found it was just not fun to be increasingly sacrificing other interests in pursuit of a singular dream. I admire the cruisers who can pour themselves completely into the cruising lifestyle, and they may be the ones who are best suited to go far on a small budget, but pouring myself in so fully just wasn’t working. 

My wife’s doubts had a lot to do with our daughter. While we’re all for adventuring together as a family and nudging kids outside the comforts of suburbia – and have done a good bit of both, our daughter’s probably not the type of kid who’s ever going to thrive being homeschooled or being pulled away from her community of friends, grandparents, extended family, etc. for an indefinite period. 

We’re both at peace with not going, at least for now, but we’ll probably try again either when our daughter is around 10-12 or once we have an empty nest. When we try again, we’ll have the perspective of not being so swept up in the dream, and being more clear-eyed about how to balance cruising with our other dreams and goals. 

As a final note, until I either hit the lotto or retirement age, one thing that would allay much of my anxiety about the financial side of things would be to either arrange our lives to work part of the year and cruise the rest and/or to have some sort of income stream while cruising. No matter how much money is in the bank, to me it’s very nerve racking to be drawing down on savings when we haven’t yet earned enough to retire forever. 

Don’t know if you husband has similar concerns, but thought this might help from someone who’s been down a similar path.


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## SlyMcFly

I took a year long cruise at 40 years old with my wife and 2 daughters, then 9 and 11. That is the proper age range for a sabbatical cruise. I believe you want them to have a normal land style high school. My wife did not want to chuck everything and sail to Tahiti and never come back so we came up with a compromise - we sailed from Milwaukee across the Great Lakes, Trent Severn canal, Erie canal, and Atlantic ICW to Miami then 3 months in the Bahamas. Jobs were put on hold for a year. This trip cost on average $110/day or about $35K. Boat was sold at the end of the trip. IT WAS A GREAT YEAR for EVERYONE and we will never forget. Cruising can be a lot of things. Look for a compromise trip like we did. Mother in law lived in the house while we were gone. Cars put in storage. We came back to the old jobs. It can be done.

Now, 20 years later, I am preparing to go again. Children are grown and on their own. My parents have passed. New wife. Full retirement income I am now financially independent.


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## tempest

Interesting dilemma, with no easy answers. In some ways, having options, or choices in life, which are often considered positives, can frequently be paralizing. leaving the comfort of the known for the unknown. A "Risk vs Reward" evaluation, as discussed in the Ted video above is a reasonable approach to evaluate some of the choices. The timeline also seems to me to be an important factor to consider. 

I also have rhetorical questions that I'd ask. No need to respond or reveal personal info, but you talk about your career flexibilty, but not your husbands. Perhaps he really enjoys his work/career and wants to pursue that further. Perhaps it's not as easy to jump in and out of as yours is, should that time come? 

On the financial security side, how much is enough? Can that financial plan be accelerated to shorten the time to departure. Why does financial freedom become greater after high school? Often, college expenses are the toughest to accumulate, should college be in the plan. 

I see the merits of going now, while the kids are young, since it could become even more difficult as they grow older, engage in their own pastimes and activities, that may not include sailing away from their friends and activities with their parents. What are their thoughts on the matter, do they have a voice? It seems to me that everyone has to buy-in. Kids are often more fearless, and adaptible at an early age. 

That said, The Chesapeake is large enough that you could spend the next 20 years sailing and not see everything there is to see and do. To get the buy-in, you might have to, as others have said, take it in steps. Get the boat, go for day sails, weekend sails and take weeklong vacations aboard. Get everyone hooked, or not. Work on the spreadsheets, see what you can do to shorten the horizon. More financial Sacrifices now to build up the kitty faster? If you're the driver of this plan, it would seem that having the solutions to all the objections will fall on you. Which means having a plan that for the most part satisfies or alleviates, to some degree, the major fears. 

This, from a guy who's still trying to figure out how to take the next leap and untie the land lines. Good luck!


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## eherlihy

Welcome to SailNet!

It is great that you have both started out with 101 (how to sail) and 103 (how to dock and anchor). I believe that if you can get him to go along for ASA 104 (overnight), and ASA 106 (a week long cruise with night sailing) you will be well on your way to converting him.

Ten years ago I discovered that sailing was a way for me to get away from the stress that I encountered in my day job. I found that once I started sailing at night, I was totally hooked on sailing. After over 25 years in white collar jobs (engineering/support/sales/training), four years ago I was laid off from a job where I wasn't appreciated, by a vice president that I didn't respect. That did it for me, and I put myself into sailing full time. Since then I have earned my OUPV, ASA Instructor certifications, and been certified by ABYC in Marine Electrical.

Currently I teach sailing in summer, and work on client's boats. When I perform mechanical or electrical repair/installation work, I _prefer_ if the client is there, so that I can teach them, and so that they have an appreciation of the work involved. I don't earn a quarter of what I used to, but I am a lot happier with what I do!

Perhaps your husband will find a similar path.


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## robert sailor

Marriage sure has its compromises from time to time. I've know several couples we met cruising that ended up with a "water soluble " relationship so it doesn't make any sense to push a partner in a direction they don't want to go. We only get one chance to live our lives and to be able to follow some or all of our dreams. You may just have to figure out a way to go cruising yourself if it's important enough. I know many men who have done this and their wives fly in to spend a few weeks before returning to the rat race. Maybe you sail your boat to a great sailing area and fly out for a few months at a time to enjoy the lifestyle. Key here is to realize that their is nothing wrong with your hubby deciding he wants to do what he wants to do and conversely it is the same for you. I know there are family issues as well but you can take the kids on some long holidays onboard. Better to find a way to realize your dreams so that you don't carry a grudge towards your husband in the future. These types of situations are not easy peasy but with two loving open minded people most things can be worked out. By the way, welcome to Sailnet


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## SanderO

I can't tell you and your husband what to do. I can tell you what I did when I was 44 and owned the boat I still have at 69... I took what amounted to a sailing sabbatical which lasted 4 years. When I got Shiva... an interesting story in itself... I wanted to sail on my own.. or in my own boat... with my own skills (to be acquired at the time) to some land across the ocean blue. I got a great boat... which I had to "trick out" for the envisioned task... I had to learn LOTS and feel comfortable with sailing off shore... and this took me 5 years... with the last test being the 91 Marion Bermuda race. After that I felt I could leave. It took me several months to close my architecture practice, give away my worldly possessions and depart on a stiff north west breeze one fall morning with my bow pointed south toward the Caribbean.

I would be more than pleased and even honored to speak with you and your husband about the experience(s).

After 4 years I had spent my savings for the adventure and returned with a new idea for a new business which I worked at for a year before returning to my former profession as a self unemployed architect with a my fabulous boat which has sailed tens of thousands miles... I am now reverted to a weekend sailor... married to a landlubber who I got to love being on the boat and all is good. I can't sail enough for many reasons... but I do when I can... I mess about when I can and a sailor will always be what I am. I feel blessed and honored to have discovered the incredible universe of cruising and sailing. I am still learning and loving it!

You CAN ease into this and you CAN return, not "defeated" but with a wealth of experience and a new perspective and carry on.. hopefully still sailing... kinda as I did... but you'll do it all in your own way.

If there is anything I can do to help, please... contact me. I am only an expert on my experience...but I am willing to share it with you.

ps I know many people who cruised with kids... one whose daughter Faraday is now a world class sailor and is:

http://www.allatsea.net/faraday-rosenberg-is-a-bright-spark-on-the-sailing-scene-in-2010/

I have her drawing done as a 6 year old hanging in my study... This is an incredible experience for youngsters!


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## pdqaltair

Welcome!

First, don't expect to always hear what you want to hear on a forum. And don't take it as rough handling; you asked the question.

In the first chapter of the Wind in the Willows the water rat proudly proclaims that there is nothing so fine as messing about in boats. That is the line we all hear, and the line that calls you to sea. Only it is taken completely out of context. He was talking about a row boat near home.

In chapter nine the same rat is charmed by a seafaring rat with big stories. He goes home prepares to leave, goes into fits and even seizures, and then in his own words, recovers his sanity.

Most people don't want to leave everything and go to sea, and it is not nice to pressure them. I would say no.

And no, 10 years is no a long time. That may be the compromise it takes. And he may feel that he will not be able to reenter the job market; it's not always as easy as you think.

So why not just take some long cruises? Go around the Delmarva and take 2 weeks. See how it goes.


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## Minnewaska

I'm certainly not qualified to give marital advice, as so many others have admitted. 

It sounds like you have the resources to buy a boat and get on it with the family, for some local cruising. If you were further able to go full-time cruising by your early 50s, you would be more fortunate that 99% of the planet. Try to stay positive, most people will never be able to have what you dream of, regardless of how long they wait.


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## SanderO

Fear of the unknown.... that is can we return and "start again" after a long hiatus?.. re enter the job market at a level to support the lifestyle we left behind? Definitely something no one can answer.

Careers develop based on experience and skill set and perhaps who you know... especially when you want to slot yourself into the corporate world. It's like a conveyor belt in a sense and you can't expect to hop on where you want to be. 

Free lance work is somewhat different, YOU create the demand for your work or you find the demand and deliver. People with cushy jobs, and expensive cushy lifestyles may also lament being trapped in a rut...on a treadmill sort of thing.

Sailor's have managed to toss off most of this for a simpler more self reliant lifestyle. And although one needs less money to do it... you do need the investment to purchase and equip a boat and the time to acquire the skills to use it...sort of "capital expenses" of cruising. The of course you need the operating capital or cash flow to run the "(ad)(venture. So what you have is people doing one of several things for the operating capital/cash flow.

a) sail off with a large amount of cash to last the expected period of the venture... and enough to start up something new 
b) investment that throws off a annuity which supports the lifestyle as long as the expenses don't exceed the annuity.
c) work along the way to support your (ad)venture
d) lower your need for expensive things... cars, motorcycles, vacations, college educations etc.

and of course a combination of the above if possible.

Many think they can use their "retirement" savings, pension, etc to run the operating costs of the (ad)venture. And that would depend on the financial needs. This has some problems... Older people face physical limitations and it doesn't get better. They need an "exit strategy" unless they plan to simply sail off the end of the earth.

Seems to me... a non expert... that the best time to "do it" is in mid life... when you are strong and healthy, have hopefully made a stash and connections in some industry along with reputation and expertise and set off for a limited (ad)venture with the notion that you will return or change and not sailing for the rest of your life. Few attempt this and fewer succeed at it...

And finally.... there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a year or two or three for the (adventure) with the goal of returning.. with the experience, the boat, and enjoy the best that a land based life offers. No need to cut oneself off from sailing. Scratch the itch...


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## Sal Paradise

I think the money could be worked out but kids in high school are the big factor. I have some bad news; college is much worse. 

The only thing that might be a possible salvation is some type of freelance thing. 


Looks like you are lucky to weekend it for now; welcome. You sound like a great family.


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## notacoolkid

Thank you all for such thoughtful and helpful replies. You've definitely given me a lot to think about, and I greatly appreciate your taking the time to answer.

I can't write PM's yet (not enough posts) so I will address the person who sent me a PM re: the Omega 36. Sorry to be public about it.
I looked at the other Omega 36's listed on yachtworld.com, neither of which seem to be the one to which you refer. I have sailed boats that have the traveler directly forward of the helm, essentially in the middle of the cockpit, and for our family, I'm afraid it would be too much in the way. I do like the cabin layout of the Omega, though--looks like everyone would get their own little space. Thank you for thinking of us.


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## Sal Paradise

hey notacoolkid
The more you try to be a great sailor, and especially help with planning and budgeting stuff, the more he will look at sailing away with you as a great plan. 

So, you have that bit of control over the equation.


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## SanderO

notacoolkid said:


> Thank you all for such thoughtful and helpful replies. You've definitely given me a lot to think about, and I greatly appreciate your taking the time to answer.
> 
> I can't write PM's yet (not enough posts) so I will address the person who sent me a PM re: the Omega 36. Sorry to be public about it.
> I looked at the other Omega 36's listed on yachtworld.com, neither of which seem to be the one to which you refer. I have sailed boats that have the traveler directly forward of the helm, essentially in the middle of the cockpit, and for our family, I'm afraid it would be too much in the way. I do like the cabin layout of the Omega, though--looks like everyone would get their own little space. Thank you for thinking of us.


This is a valid criticism.... My 36 has the traveler at the aft edge of the bridgedeck. Take a look. I have sailed with this configuration for about 50,000nm over 31 years and it has advantages AND disadvantages with a "full" cockpit.

I mostly single and short hand. And my wife usually understands how I work the boat and positions herself on the real estate aft of the helm and to the lee side. We don't use the helm much except for motoring and the sails are not an issue. When the cockpit is crowded with people who do not "help" such as trim or tack or gype... they CAN and often DO get in the way... especially when they want to be in the "protection" offered by the dodger... and that puts them where the engine instruments, AP controls are and where the main sheet is. I am not one to be constantly tweaking the traveler position. I am not racing and trying to squeeze the last 0.1knot from the rig and I don't think most cruisers do either. But if you do and you are on a long tack you have more than enough time to fiddle with the sail control lines. Of course if the cockpit is large... as Shiva's is... you can get a lot of people comfortable and "out of the way" so the skipper can "single hand".

The advantages to the mainsheet location on Shiva is that it makes for a great "hand hold" getting up into the cockpit and even moving about... especailly when moored/anchored. And of course you can upclip the mainsheet and clip out of the way on the toe rail.... at anchor, when moored or in a slip.

Long and short... this is not dangerous or an inconvenience and it puts the main where the SAILOR needs it. I have an 8:1 and 4:1 mainsheet.

As I wrote above... I am only an expert on MY experience on MY boat with relatively little time ... less than 5,000 miles on other boats.

My advice is to not let this be a deal breaker on a boat where everything else seem right.

PS... this boat was owned and fitted out by one of the best most thoughtful, prudent sailors I know who has done several offshore passages with me. He would not own a boat which was a problem for his family. he bought this boat when he had a tween and 2 teens... and they loved to sail it. This is a very good boat with lots of value... I have no skin in the game... I am trying to be as honest and objective as I can. It DOES have teak decks and many people hate them... they are very attractive as we know... and excellent non skid.

Life is a series of trade offs. You may get what you want... but lose what you had.
here's the link:

www.omega36.us


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## jwing

My two cents: despite what earlier posters claim, your husband's issue _may_ be _all_ about sailing and _nothing_ about marital issues.

Sailing can be a pain in the butt. Unless the conditions are just right, I don't know if it's worth the hassle to me. What I have found, not only in sailing, is that as my knowledge and skills deepen and widen, all aspects of an activity become less painful, more graceful and easy, more fun.

I'm surmising that you and your husband have experienced, but not graduated from, the "Sailing can be a pain in the butt" phase. And that he is not interested in giving up the benefits of your life the way it is now for a full time pain in the butt. If this is accurate, then it leads back to Sal Paradise's post #29. Buy another boat, and put the time in so that you can gracefully manage the boat and do week-long cruises that are high in the sexy-bliss-on-the-water, and very minimally painful or arduous. You may have to acquire the wide and deep sailing and boat management skills without your husband being there every step of the way.

Allow him to take the leadership role in financial security while you take the leadership of the boating journey.


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## Lockjaw

As other posters have already said, a happy marriage is all about compromise.

Do your best to focus on the positives. Of note, your husband:


enjoys sailing and living on boats, and is open to week-long trips. That's huge! At least you can have fun chartering together, which will provide you with the occasional 'fix' and keep the dream alive;
has not said "no", he has said "not yet". I know that we live in an age of instant gratification, but trust me, ten years is not a long time (he's not suggesting that you "just stay here and work 'til (you) die").

If ten years just seems too long to wait, perhaps you can negotiate a temporary sabbatical (e.g. six months, one year) rather than trying to persuade your husband to chuck it all and adopt cruising as a permanent lifestyle. It doesn't necessarily have to be 'all or nothing', unless it would be difficult/impossible for you both to return to your current jobs or new ones of equivalent pay and status (and SanderO is definitely correct that often it is very difficult to get back on where you got off. While you've said that you could find equivalent employment "fairly easily", is that true of your husband? If not, are you both quite comfortable with the possibility that you may wind up as the sole breadwinner?). Relevant reading:


Kay Burke, _Managing Your Escape: taking care of personal business so you can get away_ (1984);
Dlugozima, Scott and Sharp, _Six Months Off: how to plan, negotiate and take the break you need without burning bridge or going broke_ (1996);
Lynda Cronin, _Midlife Runaway: a grown up's guide to taking a year off_ (2000).

Speaking of books, while I know you've already done some reading about cruising, here are three titles that you might have missed:


Fiona McCall, _All in the Same Boat_ (1988);
Diane Stuemer, The Voyage of the Northern Magic: a family odyssey (2002);
Ann Vanderhoof, _An Embarrassment of Mangoes_ (2003).

I hope at least some of this may be useful to you.

P.S. I'm unsure from your previous posts exactly how much real experience you have (ASA 101-103 is pretty basic, and owning/living on a boat is not the same as extensively cruising it). While selling up and sailing away sounds attractive, many people who do so find that they are uncomfortable with the mundane reality.

There is much to be said for your husband's "crawl before you walk" approach. If you don't currently have much real experience of long-distance voyaging, perhaps you might want to 'try before you buy', i.e. do a transatlantic crossing on someone else's boat. Or do one of Rubicon3's sailing expeditions: you'll have fun and learn a lot!


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## caberg

jwing said:


> My two cents: despite what earlier posters claim, your husband's issue _may_ be _all_ about sailing and _nothing_ about marital issues.


I'd say that's a much worse marital problem because in that case basic communication is not working.


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## MarkofSeaLife

My accountant got together with my financial planner and my broker ad they designed a foolproof way for me to become TOTALLY AND UTTERLY FINANCIALLY SECURE 1 day after I die.

I am so looking forward to it! I can sit behind my desk dreaming of death while I eat the cheapest sandwich. Every time I visit the bank to Deposit money I laugh at all the idiots withdrawing money. If they save they will be as rich as me after I die.

Chicks will dig me when I'm dead  I will be able to afford to buy them drinks, smelly perfume and frilly undies.

I am working so hard to my financial security nirvana! 




Mark


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## ccriders

It seems incrementalism is the most common advice given here and is probably the most appropriate approach for you and your family at this time. I would add, that if down the road you still have that itch which must be scratched, then go, by yourself if necessary. A year tour punctuated with family rendevous in different locals just might be the ticket.
Remember, military families live through these events all the time. I experienced two one-year unaccompanied deployments to fun and interesting places and lived to tell about it. Today many military women do the same and return home to husbands and children and every day work lives. While parting is such sweet sorrow, reunions are glorious love feasts. 
Somehow, I think you will figure it out.
Oh, and remember that great line in "The Fantastics" - please God, don't let me be normal.


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## pdqaltair

Remember that after a year or 2, all of you consulting and freelance customers will have been forced to find other consultants and freelancers.

Another thing that may happen is you may suddenly loose your job at some point due to merger (me). Then the opportunity will stare you in the face and you will be more free to take it! I dreamed about cruising in my 40s, and now in my 50s I have the time, and I am NOT going back to the rat race. And yet I still stay close to home... because I can. There is peace and freedom here, it isn't something I need to run to. And I've already visited everywhere I really wanted to go, mostly.


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## 4arch

A few posters have offered the suggestion of going alone but I think as long as there are minor children at home this is the kind of thing that could put a lot of undue stress on even the strongest of marriages, particularly if the other spouse isn't afforded an equivalent period of freedom. A military deployment is a very different kettle of fish and is not, IMO, a valid comparison to a personal sabbatical.


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## MikeOReilly

It's possible your hubby has enough experience to know he doesn't like the idea. In that case you gotta decide whether your dream is more important than your relationship. If it is as you describe in the opening post, then I hope your answer is that your relationship is more important. In the end (and as all the research shows), it's not what you do in your life, it's who you do it with.

Brings to mind the wonderful Eileen Quinn song,

"Don't Ask Your Love to Choose" 
_Verse:_
Life is a compromise, love's not a test,
Don't ask your love to choose what he loves best.

Maybe you should figure out what it is that draws you to the cruising lifestyle, and then see if there are other ways to achieve this ... some way that is more attractive to your husband.

BTW, I'm totally with you about the idea of going now. Ten years IS a long time to wait, and given the stated hesitations of your husband, I am doubtful that 10 years and more security (money/pensions/kids off, etc) will make him change his mind. So maybe there is something else you can both pursue that will achieve your needs.


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## Donna_F

Arcb said:


> ...
> 
> Get him to watch Captain Ron if he hasn't already, I bet that movie has inspired more people to go cruising then any other piece of modern art.


Oh boy.


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## Caribbeachbum

Please join the _Women Who Sail _Facebook group and post your conundrum there. This place is great, but women give women the best advice (mostly). I don't envy you. Exceedingly happily married, desperately dreaming of the cruising life and with the kids, and a spouse motivated more by fear of not following his financial plan than desire to really _live_ ... no way to happily go and no way to happily stay. I have no idea how, or even if, I could handle that.


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## notacoolkid

Me, my husband--and the kids, too--are definitely a team, so I can't see myself heading off on my own. We've talked about a sabbatical before. The kids' college funds are growing daily, and there's always the military. 
I actually am already the sole breadwinner in our family; he's the family accountant/chef/electrician/general handyman/splinter-remover. But since I'm fortunate enough to be a pharmacist, I'm optimistic there will always be a job for me somewhere even if it's at CVS (shudder). I am exploring some job opportunities in Florida, playing around with the idea of living aboard down there. Virginia is lovely, and will provide some great sailing to be sure, but I'm not too keen on living on board for a winter here.
Oh, and there's the cats. Forgot to mention the three cats. They're along for the ride, too.
One of my kids' favorites lines? "You want a beer, you get your own beer."
Thanks again. This is a much better fit than CF. Much.


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## SanderO

I had two kittens on board... I taught them to use a large plastic bin sort of thing with nylon fishing line woven into a grid... no kitty litter... easy to clean. Start them with kitty litter... switch to sand and then nothing. Throw them overboard with a towel tied to a stanchion and they will climb right up! You can do cats! The meow type!


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## Lockjaw

*Different strokes for different folks*



Caribbeachbum said:


> a spouse motivated more by fear of not following his financial plan than desire to really _live_ ....


That's awfully black and white.

Longterm cruising is great for some people, but certainly not all. And those who prefer to stay land-based may well lead very fulfilling lives, on their own terms.


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## Caribbeachbum

*Re: Different strokes for different folks*



Lockjaw said:


> That's awfully black and white.
> 
> Longterm cruising is great for some people, but certainly not all. And those who prefer to stay land-based may well lead very fulfilling lives, on their own terms.


I did not mean it in a pejorative manner. Though in retrospect, the "really live" phrasing does come off as a bit judgmental. Please allow me to retract that phrasing, since it was the opposing passions that I was really cringing over.


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## 3/4 Time

I haven't read ALL replies, but in case nobody has mentioned...Ed Robinsons books are great reads.


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## Donna_F

I sent the OP a PM with more details, but what is working for me and a SO who didn't have sailing even remotely on his radar before meeting me (let alone sailing off the edge of the world) is planning together, keeping him in the loop with my research, meeting new friends who are out there doing it (and not glossing over the negative bits) so de-mystifying the lifestyle. We also attend workshops and trainings together that will hopefully reduce some of the risk-induced stress. I also decided that I don't want to sell our house and push off. We're going to be at home for the warm months and on a boat for the cold months. 

So far it's working and we're slowly marching forward.


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## SanderO

One has to embrace all the "benefits" one receives from living aboard and probably largely off the grid as it were. For most people despite the "pleasures" of sailing, the addiction to the wasteful consumption lifestyle on dirt with all the things and experiences "civilization" has to offer is hard to ween oneself off of.

I was able to get off the more possession conveyor belt without too much problem. It is not easy but it is doable. It was not easy to remove myself from "art" for lack of a better work that civilization offers when living on dirt... I refer to music, theater, dance all manner of live performances, museums and so forth. As magnificent nature is... I felt I missed "culture" being afloat in "paradise".

Our friend Mark manages to balance this by escaping the nasty hurricane season and taking is boat and parking it in the middle of a metropolis such as NYC where he can suck up all the culture he missed done in paradise. I think this is one good option... but not the one taken for those who keep moving to new places the sea touches. And of course more "cruisers" are headed away from civilization not towards it.

++++

I am a strong advocate for the sort of "cleansing" of the mind and soul and purging or possession and conspicuous consumption that living aboard and "cruising off the grid" represents. But I also think that once one has the lessons embedded in their "being" they can return to dirt with a much refreshed and less wasteful perspective. I would guess that few sail off for X years and then return and get right back into the rat race and climb aboard the conveyor of conspicuous consumption. The new perspective of "I need less" and "I need to be self reliant" changes your interface to society for as long as you live.... and for the better I would suggest.


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## SVAuspicious

SanderO said:


> Careers develop based on experience and skill set and perhaps who you know... especially when you want to slot yourself into the corporate world. It's like a conveyor belt in a sense and you can't expect to hop on where you want to be.


Some people cruise and stay active in their career fields. That makes reintegration after a cruise easier. Some fields are easier than others.

I don't know anything about pharmaceutical sciences so I'm just waving my arms here. Perhaps writing SOPs for a chain like CVS (they can certainly use some help) as an employee or freelancer, someone has to write the technical information for drug companies that go in the box, there are surely opportunities to present training (webinar or fly in), and certainly others.

What I can say with assurance is that a lot of people are working from their boats. If you can find a position that lets you work from home you can work from your boat.

Communications are key. I've sold and installed a number of systems for boat offices. The key is accepting and understanding multiple connection mechanisms so that something works: WiFi, cellular, perhaps satellite and/or HF/SSB all for voice and data. When cruising with kids the connections support home-schooling as well. While not free, the costs are not much different than many people already pay for voice and data at home if you include cable.


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## chuck5499

notacoolkid said:


> It really seems to be a matter of degree. I am more "all in," he's more "crawl before you walk." He loves sailing as much as I do, and has the chops to be a great fixer of electrical/mechanical systems on any boat we get. It's just that we have talked so exhaustively over the years about cruising, read books, even came very close to making a big move and living aboard again
> 
> Let me tell you a story and it is true - but first a caveat - almost daily it seems someone will post on here that they can't sail but are looking for a boat to sail around the world or something similar - kinda like a guy looking at Mt Everest and starts buying climbing gear and never climbed before -
> the story now - a bunch of years ago we had sold our house and moved aboard our Jeanneau DS40 and I singled handed up the east coast and back and then the admiral joined me and we made the huge jump from Miami to the Bahamas and sailed 1/2 of them then back to the east coast and up to Maine - while in Maine we met a couple on a beautiful Caliber LRC that was new and they were making lists and had everything they needed for a circum nav and wanted us to join them - we declined as we said we were not prepared nor did we really think that far ahead - we left them and went back to Miami and then did all the Bahamas and back to the Cheaspeake Bay for upgrades that we thought we needed - we left Miami again for the Bay Islands of Honduras and eventually made it and our plan was to turn back to Miami - when we got to the Bay Islands the couple on the Caliber was still there 2 years later - we talked with them on the ssb and tried to arrange a meet but they said they were leaving in a couple of days back to the USA to sell the boat and buy an RV which they did - and took a beating on the price as we watched it sell via the internet - Cruising was not what they expected for them or for us
> 
> Our goal when we started was to sail to the Bahamas and back without sinking the boat - as above we made it a couple of times and down to they Bay Islands when we met some South Africans who said hey come to Panama with us so we did and then we went on to Colombia - long story short we took baby steps and the admiral was leery of each step but we took them one at a time - no big goals just let's see and enjoy - in 2013 we did a 2 handed crossing of the Atlantic and 2 years in the Med when we decided to tread when few go and sail the Black Sea which we are doing now - as I write we are in Varna Bulgaria -
> We do one small step at a time and watch our budget (we post it on CF) but it is always one small step -
> Maybe your goals are the moon and his are getting up the elevator to the top of the moon rocket that will take you there -
> just work on a bit at a time and see what transpires and you may find first he will gradually come around or you may not like it out here at all - sometimes this is not a friendly place and all those roses have plenty of thorns -
> just our thoughts


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## SanderO

SanderO said:


> One has to embrace all the "benefits" one receives from living aboard and probably largely off the grid as it were. For most people despite the "pleasures" of sailing, the addiction to the wasteful consumption lifestyle on dirt with all the things and experiences "civilization" has to offer is hard to ween oneself off of.
> 
> I was able to get off the more possession conveyor belt without too much problem. It is not easy but it is doable. It was not easy to remove myself from "art" for lack of a better work that civilization offers when living on dirt... I refer to music, theater, dance all manner of live performances, museums and so forth. As magnificent nature is... I felt I missed "culture" being afloat in "paradise".
> 
> Our friend Mark manages to balance this by escaping the nasty hurricane season and taking is boat and parking it in the middle of a metropolis such as NYC where he can suck up all the culture he missed done in paradise. I think this is one good option... but not the one taken for those who keep moving to new places the sea touches. And of course more "cruisers" are headed away from civilization not towards it.
> 
> ++++
> 
> I am a strong advocate for the sort of "cleansing" of the mind and soul and purging or possession and conspicuous consumption that living aboard and "cruising off the grid" represents. But I also think that once one has the lessons embedded in their "being" they can return to dirt with a much refreshed and less wasteful perspective. I would guess that few sail off for X years and then return and get right back into the rat race and climb aboard the conveyor of conspicuous consumption. The new perspective of "I need less" and "I need to be self reliant" changes your interface to society for as long as you live.... and for the better I would suggest.


I can produce work from my boat... but I can't separate myself from the dirt based projects, meetings and so on... rare as they are.... without them I can't work from the boat in my profession.. architecture.


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## MikeOReilly

SanderO said:


> ... I also think that once one has the lessons embedded in their "being" they can return to dirt with a much refreshed and less wasteful perspective. I would guess that few sail off for X years and then return and get right back into the rat race and climb aboard the conveyor of conspicuous consumption. The new perspective of "I need less" and "I need to be self reliant" changes your interface to society for as long as you live.... and for the better I would suggest.


This is kinda what I was hinting at with my previous post. If the OP is like me (and my spouse), sailing and cruising is simply a means to an end, and that "end" includes notions of freedom, adventure and stepping away from our culture of insatiable wants. We discovered cruising as a way of achieving many of these goals, but it's certainly not the only way. And who knows ... when this sailing life stops being fun (or we run out of money) we'll do something else.

If it's not solely or largely about sailing, then perhaps the OP and her family can find a different way to achieve their goals together.


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## notacoolkid

Hello all,
I don't think I have enough posts to send personal messages, so I wanted to send a [late] thank you to everyone who took the time to reply. I greatly appreciate the thoughtful anecdotes and stories that definitely keep my hope alive but also realistic.
On a happy note, I have been too busy to check out this website because we've been busy...buying a boat! A Catalina 34 is ours as of today. This weekend we are getting out on the bay, so we are all excited...supposed to be 81 degrees on Sunday and gorgeous. Wish us luck!
Thanks again everyone.


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## mstern

Congratulations and good luck!


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## chuck53

As a fellow owner of a C-34, I congratulate you on your excellent choice for a boat. Not sure where you are on the bay, but we are berthed in the lower Potomac, within sight of the bay.
I strongly suggest you check out the C-34 owners forum, C34.org I can't tell you how helpful those guys are and it is a very active forum. I got lots of help there both before and after buying my boat.
Enjoy your new boat. How about some details of the boat and where are you keeping it.


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## chuck53

notacoolkid...
I sent you a PM.


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## Donna_F

chuck53 said:


> notacoolkid...
> I sent you a PM.


I'm not sure she has enough posts to receive a PM. If you want me to forward it to her, you can send it to me. She can receive mod and admin PMs.


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## chuck53

Thanks Donna. I was just letting her know if she ever had any questions about the boat to not hesitate to get in touch with me. After 7 years, I've learned a few things along the way.


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## notacoolkid

Thanks Chuck! We're in Yorktown but the boat is in Norfolk for the time being. The kids haven't wanted to look at the pictures because they "want to be surprised". We think it will be a very pleasant surprise. She's a gorgeous boat, if I do say so myself My wonderful husband is out this afternoon gathering up some of the bits and bobs that we're going to need to be CG compliant. We spend tomorrow night at the marina and maybe we'll practice anchoring on Sunday. 
Have I mentioned...we are REALLY excited!


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## chuck53

Ok, after the kids see it, you need to post a couple pics here. Did you find it the Norfolk area or somewhere else on the bay?


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## miatapaul

Yea, show the kids reactions! I like the Catalina 34 a lot. I missed out on a deal on one, and still regret it. I think doing it slow will work. Once everyone feels confident with sailing if it is in the cards it will happen. I am living on a C&C 33 and had an old college girlfriend visit, she loved it! I don't even have a shower on board and use the marina facilities, she still liked it. All my local sailing friends are like "yup she is a keeper!" But even if it is not full time you can reach your dream. Read the books by Linus Wilson (Slow Boat to the Bahamas) about his slow trip to the Bahamas and now on a circumnavigation. Lots of folks do the world cruise part time. Leave the boat in a safe place come home for work and school, then go back out again in six months. You can make it work. Heck send him back to work for 6 months while you and the kids hang on the boat!


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## Jeff_H

There is a nautical term, "proceed with deliberate haste". It sounds like you are doing that. Congratulations


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## albrazzi

Cool Kid, where is your Boat, there was one for sale on my dock. Might be you, we are at Rebel.


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## SVAuspicious

Jeff_H said:


> There is a nautical term, "proceed with deliberate haste". It sounds like you are doing that. Congratulations


Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast.


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