# All my friends...



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

TO all my friends,

I signed into sailnet to tell you I am on my 2nd beer (soon to be 3rd) on my way to Ft. Lauderdale to look at (and hopefully buy) a boat for pops! 

For those at work, I am thinking about you... BARTENDER! ANOTHER BEER!!!

(Dad, slip me another $20).

HAHA! 

- CD


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

What did he decide on?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Good luck CD... and let us know what he's getting.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Mr. CD² NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

You fell in your son's tale.....don't buy that Catalina....buy a 1234's Valiant or a 1954's Passport, or even a 245's B.C. Cabo Rico...what about a nice 1565's CS???

Hey...they wer the best then....and it "chic" to own a older boat.....

Good luck Mr. CD²....keep an eye on that son of your's...he's nuts..


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## Insails (Sep 6, 2006)

If he don't buy a Catalina,hunter,bendy or Mac will he bash CD here with others???))...Will he team up with Giu if he buys a race boat without a BBQ Grill????..oh the questions this inspires


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## Joel73 (Apr 23, 2007)

Insails said:


> If he don't buy a Catalina,hunter,bendy or Mac will he bash CD here with others???))...Will he team up with Giu if he buys a race boat without a BBQ Grill????..oh the questions this inspires


Hahahaha.... TUNE IN NEXT TIME FOR ANOTHER EXCITING EPISODE OF "CD's DADS NEW BOAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

***theme music here***


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Joel73 said:


> Hahahaha.... TUNE IN NEXT TIME FOR ANOTHER EXCITING EPISODE OF "CD's DADS NEW BOAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
> 
> ***theme music here***


CHECK THIS...

this guy drags his father's ass across the US to go buy a CATALINA 389756394.2 (sorry I can't keep up with all the numbers they give them, but its a 38 footer).....

I know that because he told me....loser....

me?? I want the best for *m*y dad....wouldn't you???

Obviously this guy doesn't like his dad, and is just waiting for his dad to get tired of the boat so CD can feast and scavenge on parts for his boat...that's almost like waiting for a man to drop to steal his boots...

shame on you CD....Mr. CD2...you should have given him for adoption when you first looked at his face and it scared you the first time  

I know you didn't mean to drop him...but hey...at least he was dropped...Cam was thrown across the room


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

We want pictures and details. It should be Sailnet law that whenever anyone announces a boat purchase that the thread includes photos. Oh, and by the way, I'm on my third beer...catch up!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Good luck CD....sounds like you're having fun!


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

CD, what did Pops finally decide on?


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

I told you..Catalina 38 something...he told me, when we spoke earlier on.


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## pegasus1457 (Apr 14, 2002)

Giulietta said:


> Hey...they wer the best then....and it "chic" to own a older boat.....


How old is your _chic_ boat, Alex?


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

*IT's EXPLAINED.....

HERE THEY ARE....THEY GOT THE OLD MAN A BOAT

SEE HERE*


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

RickBowman said:


> Por Mares....Nunca Dantes Navegados
> Mais Que Permitia A Força Humana
> Em Perigos E Guerras Esforçados
> Passaram Além da Trapobana
> ...


In the 1556's a Portuguese Poet named Luis Vaz de Camões, narrated in very antique and prosaic Portuguese the feats of the Portuguese sailors.

He was like the Shakspear of Portugal, except this one narrated true stories, the other one invented them. He also went on the ships with the navigators, so he was more a chronicist. He was in several shipwrecks and was a true lover of women.

He wrote the "Os Lusíadas".

The houvre can't be correctly translated because it loses on tarnslation, and it so full of rich second meaning that it has no possible translation making a meaning.

We have to study the book in high school for 3 years. I believe Valiente read it. Here you can find a close approximation to English.....HOWEVER BE WARN ITS EXCELLENT ADDICTING READING!!!

because it honours my Country, its sailors and expresses who we are and what we were, it is to me an homour too, to use as my signature, as a Portuguese, a few of the first verses of the "Os Lusíadas".

I will translate my signature, with Camões consent:

*By seas never before sailed* (meaning the Portuguese were the first sailing there)
*More than Human force could tolerate* (the extreme conditions they did it)
*In dangers and wars "Esforçados" *(word means to make effort, to achieve with great pain)
*Went beyond the Trapobana* (means they went past Ceylon)

Man its too great, really too great...you need to read it to appreciate, and above all to be Portuguese, of which I am so proud.

Thanks for asking. I am truly touched.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Wow CD,
Only ten friends by my count. I guess you didn't need a whole thread for the topic. In fact, you didn't even need a computer; your two hands would have sufficed to count up your friends. I think you should lay off the Catalina thing for awhile, it seems to be alienating people. People you don't even know already dislike you, all over one little boating purchase mistake. If I were you I'd quit talking about it and hope they'll forget. After all, a man in your position can't have too many friends.

btw,
At the rate you're going, it's only going to be Giu and me left, very soon. And you cannot but have noticed that Giu is showing signs of alienation, if not outright jock itch, over your trawler dreams. That would leave me. And when I say Bite Me, it's gonna be too late to call for your Cam-daddy!


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

eheheheheh Cam-daddy

ehehehehe

Who's your daddy......slap....who's your daddy.....slap.......


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

CD has friends?  And how the hell would buy their father a Catalina?     

Dennis


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Giulietta said:


> In the 1556's a Portuguese Poet named Luis Vaz de Camões, narrated in very antique and prosaic Portuguese the feats of the Portuguese sailors.
> 
> He was like the Shakspear of Portugal, except this one narrated true stories, the other one invented them. He also went on the ships with the navigators, so he was more a chronicist. He was in several shipwrecks and was a true lover of women.
> 
> ...


Thanks Alex for the info.

Dennis


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I don't care what they say about you, you seam alright to me. If you still here tomorrow i buy you your first beer


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Dennis, you being Portuguese should read this....

It beats the DaVinci codes, the Clive Cusslers, the Tom Clancy's, the Titanics...man this was real journalism of the 1550's...and you learn about the history of what was once the greatest country in the World...that little spot, the size of Indiana.....then populated with only 1 million people, half spread around in colonies...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thank you Alex for the translation of The Lusiad...I was a little sad to read that this (Mickle's) translation was not in the same rhythm and of the liberties he took with the original text, but it looks like a fascinating read nonetheless....for the original, looks like I have all the more incentive to learn Portuguese!


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

DJEvans - I've always wanted to formally learn Esperanto, I've even got one of Harry Harrison's books in that language that I can _almost_ understand. I think Esperanto pronounciation is completely Portuguese and much of the grammar is as well. Unfortunately, both still sound like trying to talk with a mouthful of marbles.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Zanshin said:


> DJEvans - I've always wanted to formally learn Esperanto, I've even got one of Harry Harrison's books in that language that I can _almost_ understand. I think Esperanto pronounciation is completely Portuguese and much of the grammar is as well. Unfortunately, both still sound like trying to talk with a mouthful of marbles.


I've asked Mr DJ for the Rosetta Stone program for Christmas...first of several of them, I hope...will use it for homeschooling as well.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

DJ..try here...

Please note that camões was a poet, writting in a different sintax than Shakespeare. In Camões, the whole verse is a sentece, and the verb only comes in the end...please see if you can read some of the original poems..it chils your blood. guaranteed.

Camões

and Here


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Giulietta said:


> Dennis, you being Portuguese should read this....
> 
> It beats the DaVinci codes, the Clive Cusslers, the Tom Clancy's, the Titanics...man this was real journalism of the 1550's...and you learn about the history of what was once the greatest country in the World...that little spot, the size of Indiana.....then populated with only 1 million people, half spread around in colonies...


Alex, didn't read the Davinci codes or see the movie. Have read Clancy's books. Didn't see the Titanic movie either, but had 3 distant relative who were crew members go down with the ship. ( my last name is English, far removed) I will buy the Lusiad tomorrow.

Dennis


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Giulietta said:


> DJ..try here...
> 
> Please note that camões was a poet, writting in a different sintax than Shakespeare. In Camões, the whole verse is a sentece, and the verb only comes in the end...please see if you can read some of the original poems..it chils your blood. guaranteed.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I have yet another favorite now.

I applaud Richard Zenith's choice to sacrifice rhyme for meaning...only you can tell me though how close do his translations come versus others? The language (Portuguese) itself is beautiful, the meaning of the words I imagine only more so. Thank you so much for sharing.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Hey you guys, try to mention CD's name every once in a while. You're the only friends he has and he'll check here first on his landing. You don't have to actually talk to him, just mention his name. Example: I went to the circus today with the kids and we saw the tigers and elephants. One of the elephants had a sore on his butt. (It sort of reminded me of CD's BB-Q veal) The kids had a really good time because they didn't know that elephants come from Portugal.

See how easy that was? CD will feel really loved now. Lonely, but loved.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailaway21 said:


> Hey you guys, try to mention CD's name every once in a while. You're the only friends he has and he'll check here first on his landing. You don't have to actually talk to him, just mention his name. Example: I went to the circus today with the kids and we saw the tigers and elephants. One of the elephants had a sore on his butt. (It sort of reminded me of CD's BB-Q veal) The kids had a really good time because they didn't know that elephants come from Portugal.
> 
> See how easy that was? CD will feel really loved now. Lonely, but loved.


Does congratulating Alex on so effectively hijacking CD's thread count?


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

We are no longer referring to the Portagee as Alex, Giu, or bluebottle. Those terms of familiarity are not appropriate for his new position on sailnet as director of stupid and futile acts. He should be addressed as Capt. Blutarski. If you must convey a sentiment of affection, you may use the name Bluto in a limited fashion. We're also considering CD's resemblence to "Pinto" but have failed to find an office befitting him. Suggestions may be forwarded to AFOC HQ.


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

I hear CD's getting a 26 footer for his pops... A mac-something?


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

4 pages and only 14 friends if you count Sway, Giu and me, and we will deny it in a court of law.    


Dennis


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

CD's friends are busy with the "intervention". CD believed he was going to look at another Catalina in Florida, but his father actually was part of the plan and was helping with the effort to get him checked into Catalina rehab. Who do you think was pumping him with those beers?

This is why we haven't and won't hear from him for a while. As part of the de-tox process, the facility blocks all access to Sailnet and Yachtworld.com. 

He's in good hands. Florida has the most expertise with this condition.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

I'm glad he is finally getting help, I hope the rehab works. Are they also working on his bbq obsession? 

Dennis


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## Iflyka200s (Oct 3, 2007)

Ever since the 2000 election with the idiots in Palm Beach who couldn't tell one person from another, we who live here sometimes call it "Flori-duh" 

(I was born in Coconut Grove on the shores of Biscayne Bay and live in Fort Lauderdale) 


CD, any luck with the boat?

Tim


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Ifly....he found a Catalina called "Hanging Chad" but couldn't figure out the instruction manual.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Two more possible friends of CD checking in bringing the total to 16. 13 if you exclude Sway, Giu and Denby. CD is in Catalina rehab so he will be gone for a few days.

Dennis


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I think he did get Pops a Catalina, and that's why he's staying away, to avoid the repercussions.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

denby,
You've got some nerve to continue to count me on the CD friends list. Cease and desist or I shall forward the matter to my legal team at Nasty, Brutish, and Short.


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## SailinJay (Dec 6, 2002)

Both he and his Dad PM'd me regarding my 350 back when this first came up.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

CD,
It's not too late - get a Gemini. You know it's the right thing to do!


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## Iflyka200s (Oct 3, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> Ifly....he found a Catalina called "Hanging Chad" but couldn't figure out the instruction manual.


OUCH! (but sadly VERY FUNNY and true!)

(Now you owe me for the diet coke I spewed all over my computer when I read this!)
Bawhahahahaha!

Best,

Tim


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

denby said:


> Two more possible friends of CD checking in bringing the total to 16. [/U] 13 if you exclude Sway, Giu and Denby. CD is in Catalina rehab so he will be gone for a few days.
> 
> Dennis


Sway, would I count you as one of CD's friends? Take another look.

Dennis


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

denby said:


> 4 pages and only 14 friends if you count Sway, Giu and me, and we will deny it in a court of law.
> 
> Dennis


Sway, take a look at this one. Were does it say we are CD's friends?

Dennis


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

SailinJay, is that 350 a Catalina?

Dennis


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## SailinJay (Dec 6, 2002)

Yes, it was introduced in 2002. They've made about 500 of them to date.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I am becoming worried about CD's continued absence. While unable to reach anyone at K-Mart, 'er I mean Catalina Customer Service, I was able to reach Weber Grills weekend crisis line. They have not heard from him either and expressed concern as well, he's rarely out of contact with them for over a day at a time. I would request all sailnet members to be on the lookout at local grocery stores; if he's not spotted in the charcoal department, give a peek down the graham cracker aisle. When he becomes disoriented he usually get's a hankering for S'Mores.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

I thought he would be back by now, but then he is sailing a Catalina.   


Dennis


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Sailing? I thought he was just checking out the BBQ.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

I hope her hurries back as I wanted to ask him what is the difference between sweet relish and India relish ?


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Freesail,
I'm sure he published something on that very topic not too long ago. It's in Gear and Maintenance I think. (g)


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

He went out for smokes, he'll be right back.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> Freesail,
> I'm sure he published something on that very topic not too long ago. It's in Gear and Maintenance I think. (g)


Well it's been said that the solar panels makes a great place to put the condiments.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

They've got to be good for something! Have you noticed that none of these new "green" cars with the batteries carry solar panels? Hard to believe. CD's car has so many it looks like a VW aircraft carrier!


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

You guys are ruthless. 6th grade playground mentality. Poor CD is down in the dumps and away on a mission to hell. And what do you all do, kick him while he is down. Tisk Tisk Tisk!


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## LyleRussell (May 3, 2006)

Why does beer and boat buying seem to go together??


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Melrna said:


> You guys are ruthless. 6th grade playground mentality. Poor CD is down in the dumps and away on a mission to hell. And what do you all do, kick him while he is down. Tisk Tisk Tisk!


Hes a grown man(unlike us ), and can handle it. Why do you say "down in the dumps" and "mission to hell"? He seems, as I would be, very happy and excited to travel around and test out boats, I mean Catalinas.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Melrna said:


> You guys are ruthless. 6th grade playground mentality. Poor CD is down in the dumps and away on a mission to hell. And what do you all do, kick him while he is down. Tisk Tisk Tisk!


Well, that about descibes it.

Hello all my no-longer-friends. Just remember that I keep up and save all of these comments. When the market crashes (ie, offtopic thread) AND the world comes to an end, I (me, your one and only CD) will be the only one still making ice - powered by my beautiful solar array. THEN WE WILL SEE WHO IS STILL LAUGHING as I sit back enjoying my ice cold drink and you losers are scavenging for a 9 volt to turn your lights on (pun intended).

Back to the scheduled programing:

It was about a totally wasted trip. I will not tell you (so don't ask) what boats we were going to look at in the event that someone here owns them. All I can say is: *rode hard and put up wet*.

THe first one was told to us as being "pristine": no water damage, beautiful boat that was at a give away price. Well, I think if the issues had been properly discussed with us first we either would not have come or would have been prepared for what we saw: All the portholes (ALLLLLLLLL of them) leaked and had been leaking for some time. A simple gasket repair would have stopped them from stinking up the cushions, swelling the wood, and staining the teak. And oh yeah, by the way, the rudder had been bent and the keel had been "delaminated". How you delaminate a solid lead keel, I do not know and did not want to ask... but that was a few of the "oh yeah, by the way's...". There was a lot of teak work that needs sanding and refininshing (on the inside from the water/sun damage), but is doable. MOst of the handles/pulls were corroded shut and would have to be replaced. It was a pristing example of a good boat that has not been maintained or cared for. Honestly, if I knew someone was flying in to see my boat I would have aired it out and made sure there were no leaks. SImple things... fix the gaskets, sand and refinish the teak, replace the handles/pulls... etc. These things do not cost a lot of money but SURE make your boat show better. I won't say that the boat is definitely off the list, but I think we can do better.

THe next boat was exactly what the broker said it was: in need of attention. I praise that broker for being very honest about it. It was the least suprise of any of them. We went below and grabbed the handle to the head and it fell off in our hands. He had duct tape holding the wires of his outside speakers up. He drilled a hole for an instrument right through the coaming and filled it with putty instead of a water tight fitting. The boat had been shut up and sat still for so long that all the countertops were cracked. Get the picture? We did. We were there for almost 2 minutes before turning back around and walking off the tub.

THe third boat seemed at first to be the best one of the bunch and had some consideration. Still, all the portholes leaked and had fouled and mildewed the cushions. THe forward sink was filled up with water from the rain a few hours before (and much of it had run off on the floor). It had some water damage on the bulkhead (close to that sink, no suprise), but it was out of sight and the wood was still solid. However, we pulled the board for the bilge and it had apparently set with very high water for a long time as there was a water line just under the floorboards. All of the wiring was corroded. Then under careful inspection, we saw that some of the fiberglass was pulling away inside in the bilge. I have never seen this before on the inside of a boat. It seemed repairable. THen we were told that the boat had been in a hurricane, had fallen off its stands and destroyed all the rigging. It had all been replaced, but that started a lot of questions about how extensive the damage was after it had fallen off the stands and were there any hairline cracks in the hull, etc. Our surveyor said he would not even look at it until IR Imaging had been performed on the hull. He said that was VERY expensive and we decided to walk away.

We then looked at a new boat (or almost new) and decided against it because it did not feel as solid as we thought it should.

That is where we are at - no where. It was an experience... I will say that.

What absolutely amazes me in this process is how very poor care or neglect people have for their boats. If I was selling my boat, you can bet that it would be in pristine condition before someone set foot on her. THe ports would not leak, the hatches would all work , the brightwork would be done, the boat would smell good, etc. It seems that we have two choices: 1) buy an older boat that has been neglected and abused and spend a lot of time and money to fix it up, or (2) buy a new/newer boat that someone has not had a chance to screw up yet.

For those of you that are serious about boat shopping, let me say: Get Prepared. There is a LOT of crap out there.

Just my thoughts.

- CD


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

And most of them had Catalina on the builder's plate... 

_
Just kidding CD... 
_


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> And most of them had Catalina on the builder's plate...
> 
> _
> Just kidding CD...
> _


Yes, I know you are kidding.

You know, it is a sad reality that they are NOT all Catalinas. It will reinforce that it does not matter what the boat build is: you can abuse any boat and make it crap.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

CD - That sounds hauntingly like every Morgan Out Island I have ever looked at. That would be my guess as to what you are looking at. Too bad it was a crappy trip. Hope it goes better next time. Sent you a PM, read it.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BF- 

What boat is that in your avatar??


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

It also explains why AVERAGE boat prices are so low. We looked at a lot of turkeys before finding ours after 1.5 years of looking. Tell dad to hang in there and the right one will meander along sooner or later.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> BF-
> 
> What boat is that in your avatar??


Dog thats a CS34, my boat, well, the test boat for the article, a sistership.

Name your price on boats right now, the market is very soft. Straight from the mouth of a broker I know. Unless its almost new, or something maintained for under 10k. Great time to buy. Low ball. For everyone selling boats right now, sorry, ignore that.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

You know BF and Cam and all, here is the deal:

I am not so sure that there is a soft market (let me explain myself). I think it is softer than it has been in the past, but it is just a lot of people selling junk that is crowding up the market. 

I mean, here is the idiot's guide to trying to sell your boat:

1) Pick your crap up out of the boat. Dirty underwear sitting on the bloody berth is a bad idea.

2) Go to Walmart for God's sakes, and get some flowers or placemats or little pics or something and hang them on the boat. Make you boat look refreshing and comfortable and "homey". No one like walking into a boat that has been stripped of every article... at least i don't. We don't want to know what it can look like at its worst... we want to know what it can look like at its best.

3) Turn on the AC. Do something so that potential buyers can spend more than 2 minutes down there without dying of heat exhaustion.

4) If you boat smells like A$$, air it out and go buy some Stickups or something. GEEZ!! All three boats had been shut up forever and the ole' holding tank has a way of breding its own smells. No one wants to push the hatch back and get a rush of warm, putrid air up their nostrills. It kinda dampens the 'mood'.

5) THis is a big one... the biggest one: Do some basic maintenance on your boat. If your hatches leak... stop them. If mold is growing all over the tub, clean it. If your head has a new form of pennicillin infesting it, kill it. Sand and varnish your teak. A few bucks and a little care goes a long way. The attitude of, "Well, the next guy can just do it," is a great way to never sell your boat.

6) Don't be a lazy jerk. Get off your duff and at least spray the bird poop off the boat before the prospective buyers get there. Come on!!???

7) How about just going through your boat and cleaning it?? How about cleaning out under the stove?? How about vacuuming up the dirt and dust that is 3" thick?? DO NOT PUT STAINED COMFORTERS ON THE BOAT... quit being a cheap BAS****, go to Walmart or Goodwill and put a comforter on there from the year 2000 or better that does not have who knows what staind all over it?? (we did not ask).

When someone walks on your boat, they want it to be inviting not scarry. Dad and I kept asking ourselves, "If this is the honeymoon, what will the marriage be like??"

So, to sum it up:

OTHER THAN THAT, MRS. LINCOLN, HOW DID YOU ENJOY THE PLAY?


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## TSteele65 (Oct 19, 2006)

Amen. Most of the boats I'm looking at are late 60's/early 70's vintage, and the number of times I've opened the companionway hatch and been knocked backwards by the odor are too numerous to count.

I really get a kick out of the listings on yachtworld where the owners or broker took pics of the interior after what must have been one hell of a party.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

TSteele65 said:


> Amen. Most of the boats I'm looking at are late 60's/early 70's vintage, and the number of times I've opened the companionway hatch and been knocked backwards by the odor are too numerous to count.
> 
> I really get a kick out of the listings on yachtworld where the owners or broker took pics of the interior after what must have been one hell of a party.


Yep. Here is the thing people do not understand: When you want to drop 200,000 (or more) in a depreciating assett that you have been saving your entire life for, you do NOT want to have to use your imagination to imagine what it COULD be!!!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Good basic rules..but if you've got a bloody berth...make sure the body was well-weighted down before you put it over the side. 


Cruisingdad said:


> 1) Pick your crap up out of the boat. Dirty underwear sitting on the bloody berth is a bad idea.
> 
> 2) Go to Walmart for God's sakes, and get some flowers or placemats or little pics or something and hang them on the boat. Make you boat look refreshing and comfortable and "homey". No one like walking into a boat that has been stripped of every article... at least i don't. We don't want to know what it can look like at its worst... we want to know what it can look like at its best.
> 
> ...


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Let me know who the brokers were, so I can remember to forget them if I ever run across any of their boats.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Over the years I have found myself involved in a lot of boat searches with people who asked me to come along as they narrowed their search or who live out of town but are looking at boats in the Annapolis area. Its a fun thing to do when I have the time. 

My experience has been very close to CD's. I have been amazed at how many boats that are listed as being 'pristine' or 'good clean boats' are totally trashed. Over and over again, I went aboard boats that clearly started out as good boats but which have deteriorated dramatically in relatively a short period of time. 

Now the funny part of that is that in general I am perhaps a bit more used to looking through the dirt and grime, and distinguishing between the items that will need a lot of work and those will simply need a thorough cleaning than most folks. I have been amazed to see comparatively new boats with leaking hull to deck joints and core rot, strange electrical problems (where an owner indicated that he had abandoned dead factory wiring to portions of the boat and had a marine electrician crudely run wires through the bilge to power up circuits at the forward end of the boat), teak deck inserts that are demaminating, or non-skid that is badly crazed, and so on. These are potentially serious manufacturing defects that will be expensive to repair. So when I say a boat is trashed I don't mean simply dirty. But I have also seen the kinds of things that CD mentions where simple maintenance would have prevented serious damage. 

It is easy to blame a manufacturer or an owner but I found it interesting to jump from boat to boat, manufacturer to manufacturer over a dense period of time, and try to sense which defects are common to a manufacturer or model vs what is owner neglect driven. The trends get pretty obvious after a while. Its no surprise that the 'value' oriented brands don't hold up as well as many of the better built boats. I was initially surprised at which manufacturers held up best and which seemed to do worst and how much it was very different than the generally held opinions. 

What makes the cases of lack of owner maintenance all the more disappointing, is that the brokers that I know around here, seem to be moving the 'good clean' boats pretty much at the same rate and not all that far from the same prices that they did a year ago, maybe down 10-15% or so (I've anecdotally confirmed that by watching the boats go off the market with Sale Pending notices.) While the number of clean boats on the market seems to be declining, the inventory of clunkers does seem to have grown a bit larger larger than a few years back. 

Another other hard part of this trend is that with clunkers getting dumped in the marketplace, I can only imagine that over time the price of good clean boats will almost have to be impacted as well. I think there is a tendancy to compare the price of a good clean boat to a clunker and assume that the good clean boat is overpriced because few buyers truly understand the real costs of fixing a bad boat until they have actually complted the work. 

This just adds to the problems because having under estimated the cost of the repair a new buyer may will accept a half-assed job, a job that will further bring down the value of the boat over time. 

In any event as the market seems to become disproportionately loaded with clunkers, I fear that this trend will chase people away and in the long run be detrimental to our sport. 

CD you have my sympathies......


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Hey Jeff,

I agree with everything - even the point to production boats, but I will add a caveat. Is the issue with a "hunter" for example (and I am just using them as an example... no offense) that:

1) They are not well made and the neglect becomes even more apparent, or

2) The typical purcahser may not have much experience with boats or capital or interest (maybe all three) to maintain it.

Let me explain:

If you go on a Hylas (one of my favorite boats), it is still tighter than a Catalina of the same size. Although the woodwork is outstanding, will that boat be truly apprecaited by someone that does not have a lot of sailing experience? How many bewbies buy a Hylas? Now, how many newbies buy a Hunter?

My bet is that the bene-hunt-alinas decline is more a factor of the buyers than the boat. I am not comparing the quality of a Catalina to a Hylas... don't get me wrong. However, the typical buyer of a Valiant or a Hylas is probably a skilled sailor with considerable capital at their expense so they realize the boat ownership do's and don'ts.

See my point? Agree or dissagree?

- Brian


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

I think I will make this a poll. I think it will be interesting.

- B


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Strongly agree---people who are likely to neglect a sailboat are much more likely to purchase a cheap boat. Of course there are those who buy a low priced boat because they cannot afford a Hylas, but we are more likely to shop for a year or two looking for a well made boat which has had decent care and/or careful reconditioning. 4+1/2 years ago I bought a 1980 Endeavour 37 for less than half what it would have cost me for a new 28 Catalina, and I repair or upgrade my vessel more than I sail. In a couple more years that 28 Catalina would be worth less than my 1980 Endeavour 37. And when the day comes that I am too old and infirm to sail and am ready to sell, my brightwork will be clean and shiny, my portholes and hatches will not leak, and I will sell it myself rather than using the only sailboat broker in the St Louis area. Some of my friends have consigned their boats to that broker, and found he can trash a boat faster than simple neglect! Would neglect lose your boom? Would neglect tilt a trailer so that rain runs away from the scuppers and into the boat, causing mildew in cushions and carpets? Would neglect charge storage fees high enough that it becomes unprofitable for the broker to sell the boat? Not all the clunkers on the market are caused by previous owners.


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## soul searcher (Jun 28, 2006)

CD,
So come off of the details. What exactly is Papa looking for?
There is,from outward appearances a vey nice Pearson 34? in my marina at a good price and a tayanna 42? with a new power train that some one will get cheap. 
We could get a sailnet brokerage sevice going! Nice boats for sale in your Harbor or local area that aren't listed on yachtworld


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

bestfriend said:


> Great time to buy. Low ball. For everyone selling boats right now, sorry, ignore that.


I've been thinking about lowballing this dude on a CS34 named "MOONDANCE"


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

> If you go on a Hylas (one of my favorite boats), it is still tighter than a Catalina of the same size. Although the woodwork is outstanding, will that boat be truly apprecaited by someone that does not have a lot of sailing experience? How many bewbies buy a Hylas? Now, how many newbies buy a Hunter?


Far too many. It has reached epidemic proportions and something needs to be done about now !!! 



> My bet is that the bene-hunt-alinas decline is more a factor of the buyers than the boat. I am not comparing the quality of a Catalina to a Hylas... don't get me wrong. However, the typical buyer of a Valiant or a Hylas is probably a skilled sailor with considerable capital at their expense so they realize the boat ownership do's and don'ts.


Probably true, but there is only so much even the best maintenance can do to help along a dodgy vessel. I think that a fair number of people start with a used, inexpensive boat - thinking that they'll be able to fix it up so that it looks like a Swan/Oyster/whatever... Somewhere along the way they realise that it's way faster and just as cheap to go out and buy something that was better and prettier to begin with.

But there certainly are a substantial number of people who go out and buy a brand new Production 41 as their first boat, with no idea of the cost or time required to even make them seaworthy, let alone maintain them. I'm willing to bet that a lot of those boats are rotting because the owners plain can't afford to take care of them properly.

We are on the hard next to one of these individuals for the winter at our marina. This past weekend, while we were taking things off our boat, the owner of the big, new-looking boat mentioned that he was off to Canadian Tire (automotive/hardware store here) to buy a couple more batteries. I asked him why he doesn't get some good marine ones, and he replied that this was his third set this year and he was #@*& if he was going to spend two or three times as much for "fancy designer ones".

I didn't press the issue...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Just a thought here, but I am wondering if you might have better luck looking around the Great Lakes area ? The boats don't get used as much and there are some pretty good ones around right now.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The other advantage of a Great Lakes boat is that the lakes are fresh water.  Much less damaging to the boat overall.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

How is the "boat market" (if there is such a thing) right now ? Are boats selling for a lot less money like housing is in the United States ? Seems like there would be some deals out there while people scramble for money to pay the mortgage on that 5th flip house they bought.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Not too mention the added joy and spiritual uplift one would gain from doing business with a Canadian


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

CD, sorry you had bad luck boat searching but in spite that did you have a good weekend with dad? Don't get discouraged, the right boat will come along. I looked for almost two years, and I wasn't to fussy, 30 to 40 feet in good shape. Even looked at Catalinas. Almost bought one  


Dennis


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

uspirate said:


> I've been thinking about lowballing this dude on a CS34 named "MOONDANCE"


US, follow along with my schizophrenia. She's not for sale, again. I am on her right now, spending the night, having a little make up session. I hope she forgives me.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

soul searcher said:


> CD,
> So come off of the details. What exactly is Papa looking for?
> There is,from outward appearances a vey nice Pearson 34? in my marina at a good price and a tayanna 42? with a new power train that some one will get cheap.
> We could get a sailnet brokerage sevice going! Nice boats for sale in your Harbor or local area that aren't listed on yachtworld


Well, I won't come off with too many details on the boats we looked at because I am afraid they might be lurking here or on Mainsheet. So I will remain vague but if anyone has a detailed interest, I will discuss in a PM.

As far as the general type of boat: Mom likes the salty looking boats like tayana, baba, and Panda. She really, really liked the Panda. Dad sees too much maintenance on those and likes Catalinas. We are shopping for something in the 38-42 range. We may go look at a Hylas 44 in Ft Lauderdale area. It is easy to find on YW. I know very little about it but the broker that reps it used to work at Lavida Starships (a sailboat dealer here in Dallas) so I think I am getting the skinny from him.

Not sure I am sold on any of them yet... except the Catalinas!! Problem is that if they get a Baba type boat I will take off and leave them in almost all conditions. We do not pair up well. Our budget is probably 200ish.

Anyways... I will keep everyone informed. I am convinced we will only have 100k to spend when this is all done as we will end up dropping the other 100k in plane tickets (and beer for me... I am free for advice but require beer to operate!!).

Thanks for the many replies all... hope I did not miss anyone.

- CD


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

Should look at Passport 40's... I happen to know one that may be for sale if a certain HR53 gets bought...  Slightly more than $100k though...


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## RXBOT (Sep 7, 2007)

*$200,000*

Buy a new one


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Had a very nice trip to Florida this time. We saw a boat we were not going to even see at first and really liked it: A Tayana Vancouver 42.

I was nice to see someone else actually care for their boat as much as I care for mine. Being an anal owner is a good thing.

Anyways, sorry I have been away for a while... but boat shopping will be taking up every weekend it seems.

See ya,

- CD


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

So the weekend is when we can talk about you?

Glad you had a good trip this time.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

werebeagle said:


> So the weekend is when we can talk about you?
> 
> Glad you had a good trip this time.


Why wait until the weekend? We talk about him all the time.

Dennis


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

. . . and most of the obscene stuff, Cam deletes before he gets a chance to read it.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

TB...CD and I "discuss everything" before I hit the big red button...but CruisingPerv does not have the same ring to it!! (g)


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

No, but CP does!


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

...and I thought that stood for Cardiac Paul...oh well...same difference!! (g)


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