# Hunter 45ds vs Moody 45 ac



## Alfalotus44 (Jan 10, 2012)

My wife and I are planning to sail the world, leaving in about 4 years for about 4 years. Like many of you, new in the sailing world, we went to visit a few boatshows and talked to different sailors. I found out that there is no such thing as a perfect sailboat and that compromise is the key to choose a sailboat. My wife want a secure boat and a galley in a L shape. That eliminate a lot of sailboat. (And its a good thing because I won't have to buy the new Oyster 625). Am looking for new or lightly use confortable sailboat, strong, easy to sail with in mast furling, dual wheel, electric... and without a mainsheet anchor point on the floor. (That eliminate a lot of cruiser racer). But I want a boat that moves well. For 2011 model, for around 300K, we have lower the list to 2 sailboats; The Hunter 45 DS and the Moody 45 AC. 

At that price I will have to buy the Moody in Europe, without much option and it comes with 220v.
For the same price I could buy the Hunter from a broker not far from home, with lots of equipment, Air con, bow truster, freezer etc
Does anyone have any knowledge of these sailboats? Please share.
Andre


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Alfalotus44 said:


> .... and without a mainsheet anchor point on the floor. (That eliminate a lot of cruiser racer). But I want a boat that moves well. For 2011 model, for around 300K, we have lower the list to 2 sailboats; The Hunter 45 DS and the Moody 45 AC.
> 
> At that price I will have to buy the Moody in Europe, without much option and it comes with 220v.
> For the same price I could buy the Hunter from a broker not far from home, with lots of equipment, Air con, bow truster, freezer etc
> ...


Regarding the mainsheet anchor point on the floor you have just to ask to be moved to over the cabin. Everybody will be happy to do that for you just to sell you the boat

Regarding the two boats you mention, asside from taste (the 45ds looks ugly to me) there are some diferences between the boats:

The Hunter 45ds weights 10 404Kg has a Ballast of 3 283Kg (B/D 0,315) a beam of 4.40m and has a sail area of 98,37m2

The Moody 45 AC weights 12 200 kg has a Ballast of 3 350kg (B/D 0,275) a beam of 4.20m and has a sail area of 112m2.

The Moddy is considerably heavier and that will make it a more stable boat. It has less B/D but that is probably not meaningful since the boat has more draft and a modern steel/lead keel to lower the CG. The Moody has a more modern hull, less beam, is more elegant and I will bet it will be faster. The boat has also less considerable windage than the 45DS.

The Moody is more on the Tartan class than in the Hunter class.

If you will consider a Hunter why not a Catalina 445 that seems a more modern boat to me?

Regards

Paulo


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Yes, at that budget I'd definitely give the Catalina a good look (in comparison to your 'short list') but of the three I'd speculate that only the Moody would be instinctively judged worthy of world cruising by most.

That said, as has been discussed at length repeatedly, it's as much about the crew and the luck of the draw weather-wise sometimes.....

I'd concentrate on honing your skills and adding to your experience (which you haven't shared other than to say you're 'new to the world of sailing'...) Four years will be gone in a flash....


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

For those funds, ie 300K or so, there is a std cockpit Jeanneau SO49p ready to continue sailing the world as it did for the current owner from a trip in the NW US to Oz and back! Jeanneau and Beneteau also make DS models with in the budget you are looking at, altho not positive the galley is "L" shaped as you are wanting. 
I was on a Waquiez(sp?) Centurion 40s over the weekend, nice boat, very fast, it had an L shaped galley too. Not sure it is made any more, but I am sure used would not be hard to find. I would also add, very stiff for the winds we were in, probably due to it having the deeper 7+' keel too! We finished 2nd in a major local race against many other all out racers/racer cruiser style boats with equal ratings.

Marty


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

For that sort of money you can get an AMEL super / Maramu/ Mango which is a much more seaworthy and much more practical boat. 

A true blue water boat tried and tested in multiple circumnavigations.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Or a Mason 44 which is a stout boat

Dave


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Alfalotus44 said:


> Like many of you, new in the sailing world, we went to visit a few boatshows and talked to different [sailors] *SALESMEN*. I found out that there is no such thing as a perfect sailboat and that compromise is the key to choose a sailboat.


There, I corrected your post for you.

You have a particular purpose in mind so compromise is not the key to choose your boat. You need a bluewater cruiser. It is clear from your post that you do not know enough about sailing and sailboats to choose a boat at this point. A boatshow should not be your primary source of information, as boat salesmen are notoriously full of sh!t and the boats on display are typically high production models. You have a lot of reading to do. You might start here about selecting a boat for offshore cruising: Mahina Expedition - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising

It's good that you are seeking advice on this forum so you do not make an expensive mistake due to inexperience and bad advice.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

blt2ski said:


> ...
> I was on a Waquiez(sp?) Centurion 40s over the weekend, nice boat, very fast, it had an L shaped galley too. Not sure it is made any more, but I am sure used would not be hard to find. I would also add, very stiff for the winds we were in, probably due to it having the deeper 7+' keel too! We finished 2nd in a major local race against many other all out racers/racer cruiser style boats with equal ratings.
> 
> Marty


I have been saying on this forum that is a very good sailboat one of the best you can find on the used market. Glade you could confirm that by sailing the boat

Yes, they still make the boat, now with a two wheel setup and an open transom. They used to make also a Centurion 45 but they have stopped production some years back.

Has Faster say, there are some boats that are better than others for offshore work but any modern 45ft can do it, it is more to the way the boat is equipped and to the skipper experience than anything else.

However, in the range of Moody 45 price, I would prefer to all those boats a Dehler 45. Yes it is one of those that come standard with a back traveler but that can have an over the cockpit traveler. It is a boat with a huge stability, a soft wave passage and is way faster than any of the other boats the OP has considered. It has also a great interior. It comes standard with a low tankage but I am sure that it has space for a lot more.

Dehler Yachts






Regards

Paulo


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Dehler ????

They want a world cruising yacht. There is nothing more redundant on a cruiser than two wheels. [ OK maybe a wheel barrow ]

have a look where Mr Amel puts the wheel and if you don't see why you have never made a serious passage.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

TQA said:


> Dehler ????
> 
> They want a world cruising yacht. There is nothing more redundant on a cruiser than two wheels. [ OK maybe a wheel barrow ]
> 
> have a look where Mr Amel puts the wheel and if you don't see why you have never made a serious passage.


I am not going to discuss here the advantages of a dual wheel setup in a modern boat (with a large transom) above 38ft. They are many and I have already discussed them elsewhere.

Regarding the wheel position they are in the same position as in the Moody 45 (also a two wheel set-up) and the Hunter 45Ds. They are also on the same position where are the wheels of most sailboats, including bluewater boats like the Malo, Najad or Morris. Do you think they have not thought about the pros and cons of having it on any other side?

Amel is a very particular boat, yes a good voyage boat but certainly not the only way to look at a voyage boat. They are certainly not fast boats (even the Hunter is faster) and a 45ft Amel is something that does not exist at least for 20 years: Their line starts at 55ft and they are very expensive boats.

The last 45ft was the Amel Maramu, a boat designed in 1976:

Amel Maramu 46 Review: Elegant World Cruiser - Waves « Jordan Yacht Brokerage

The boat that followed, the Super Maramu is a 52ft boat and even a boat with 20 years cost about 300000K and it will need probably 30 or 40% more to put it in condition to world travel.

Amel maramu Boats For Sale

I understood that the OP wanted : *looking for new or lightly use confortable sailboat, strong, easy to sail with in mast furling, dual wheel, ... But I want a boat that moves well. For 2011 model, for around 300K..*

Not a 20 year old used sailboat.

Regards

Paulo


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## Alfalotus44 (Jan 10, 2012)

Thank you all for your response.
I didn't want to create a debate, but that's what forums are for, I guess.

I love the interior of the Hunter 45DS, Classic look and rear master bedroom.
I hate the exterior. And really not sure of its bluewater capacities.
I was glad to find the Moody, classic look and modern enginneering. (But am affraid that 300K won't be enough).
Amel, Mason or Centurion are too old for my taste.
I new, Paulo would offer the Dehler 45 as a choice. Since he already offer me the Dehler 41 in another post. But I really don't want a boat with IKEA office look interior. So, no Jeanneaus, Beneteaus etc...
The Catalina 445, good choice, one of the rare model who taught of a small workroom ( don't you need a space to fix things?)
Am not a sailor, and you are right, I have talk to more salesman than sailors. But I did read a lot. Tomorrow night I am attending a conference from a coupple that just finished their world tour. And this summer we are already invited from different sailboat owners on the lake Champlain. I plan to saill as much as I can for the next two years, than buy my boat, practice in the Saint Laurence river , sail down to the bahamas, and than sell the house and ciao bello! I forgot to mention that we have 5 kids. ( Don't worry they won't comes with us), but they will brobably from time to time join us somewhere on our trip. And you are right 4 years is quick to come. And my 4 years world tour is just a suggestion.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Alfalotus44 said:


> ...
> I was glad to find the Moody, classic look and modern enginneering. (But am affraid that 300K won't be enough).
> ....
> I new, Paulo would offer the Dehler 45 as a choice. Since he already offer me the Dehler 41 in another post. But I really don't want a boat with IKEA office look interior. So, no Jeanneaus, Beneteaus etc...
> ...


Interesting So you think this is Ikea Style?

Go to 360º picture on the link below)

Dehler Yachts

Well the last time (2 years ago) I was inside a Dehler 45 the interior looked pretty god to me, considering that is a 400000k boat.

Now Dehler is made by Hanse (like the Moody) and even if they tried to make it cheap on the 41, trying to bring prices down I don't believe they do the same on the 45 that is pointed to another segment, one that wants more than a good and fast boat but also that demands a first rate interior.

The quality of sailboat interiors is directly related with price. You can like more on style than another, but you pay what you get.

You are right about prices, the Moody will cost around 400000K and for the 300000K you will be limited to Bavaria, Hanse, Jeanneau or Hunter. Probably even the Catalina is more expensive. Don't forget that if you want a boat to sail to far places the boat can cost 40% more in extras.

That idea of practicing in the river before heading to the Ocean is plain crazy.

If you can, take some courses of sailing, charter some boats and have more courses of advancing sailing, the kind they will take you in winter with bad weather in a sailboat. When you reach this point you will understand better the priorities in what regards the choice of a sailboat, at least in what the sea is concerned.

A good plan will be also to book for next year a trip to the Dusseldorf boat show, the place were you can see more sailboats and compare the interiors.

Regards

Paulo


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## scottbr (Aug 14, 2007)

Alfalotus44 said:


> Thank you all for your response.
> I didn't want to create a debate, but that's what forums are for, I guess.
> 
> I love the interior of the Hunter 45DS, Classic look and rear master bedroom.
> ...


Ask Michael on Sequitur Hunter 49 if he thinks the Hunters are ocean capable.

He just finished 8 days with up to 45 knot winds and 8 metre seas from the Falklands to Uruguay. He posts links to his blog on here whenever he manages to get internet connections.


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## Alfalotus44 (Jan 10, 2012)

I guess I touched a sensible point, Ikea style was more for the Benes and Jeanneau. I could had said more like :modern office furniture. The Dehler 45 is a nice boat, no discussion, but like you said, while adding some equipment I will get close to half a million.Moody seems to be quite unknom. I love english desing, (no wonder I race a Lotus). I taugh it was more like a Aston Martin built by Ford. ( Built with style, with tipical british issue.)The Dehler is a true Porsche, sharp, fast and bullet proof. But I drive the Aston.
Take a look at this Moody:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=75788&url=

About the river: The St Lawrence is one of the biggest river, more than 3000kl long, up to 300kl large and is salty from Quebec city all the way to the ocean with hi tide. The current is very strong and whale encounter are not rare. Some says that: if you can sail this river, you can sail anywhere.

By the way: I already book some sailing courses.
And yes, I will be at the Dusseldorf show next year, january 19th to the 27th.

Funny, it took me about three weeks to buy my house, around the same for a car, but a sailboat... Am anxious to see what I will end up with!


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Alfalotus44 said:


> I guess I touched a sensible point, Ikea style was more for the Benes and Jeanneau. I could had said more like :modern office furniture. The Dehler 45 is a nice boat, no discussion, but like you said, while adding some equipment I will get close to half a million.Moody seems to be quite unknom. I love english desing, (no wonder I race a Lotus). I taugh it was more like a Aston Martin built by Ford. ( Built with style, with tipical british issue.)The Dehler is a true Porsche, sharp, fast and bullet proof. But I drive the Aston.
> Take a look at this Moody:
> http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=75788&url=
> 
> ...


Yes, I understand exactly what you mean. I have passed the last 10 years learning about boats and sailing to be able to choose the right boat for me

I also understand what you mean about the Moody and the Dehler but even if I find the Moody a great boat and for what I have read surprisingly fast, it is not a match for the Dehler, or putting in another way they are not the same type of boat: Like a Porsche Panamera, the Dehler, the Moody is not like an Aston, more like a Ford Mondeo with an Aston interior

Regards

Paulo


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## Alfalotus44 (Jan 10, 2012)

By the way Paulo, did you know that the engine in the Aston Martin DB7 and up are from 2-V6 of Ford Mondeo. What a coincidence! (unless you knew)

I will consider the Dehler 45 and the Catalina 445, I will keep the Moody in mind and probably forget about the Hunter.
Now if the ice can melt, I will go sailing and let you know my thoughts.
I will then probably arrive with other models to consider, like the new Hallberg-Rassy 412, but that's another story.

Thank you

Andre


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

if you do a bunch of internet "research" all you are going to do is end up believing that the Hunter is a piece of crap. I know that is what I "learned" 4 years ago when I got my first boat. In the end all that research did was cost me $20k in selling the first boat and getting the boat I wanted to start with.

As an owner of a 2001 Hunter 410 I can say in the 40'+ boats that Hunter makes are good a boat of anyone unless you are/can spend 3 times as much (better than the higher end boat I got the first time). What you lose is some interior fit out (not finish) so have less lockers. I would take my Hunter anywhere I would take a non-metal boat!

And if you get the Hunter your budget will allow for more "stuff and toys" that provide enjoyment to you 99% of the time instead of wishing you have that stuff 99% of the time. And all you give up is the 0.01% chance that you are going to get caught in the perfect storm because you were stupid enough to chose to go out in that weather.

Cruising is a LOT more than sailing. Get a boat that is going to be comfortable/enjoyable for the 99% of the time you will be using it instead of the 1% fear!


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## jimrafford (Jan 7, 2011)

Earth to dreamer. $300k might get you half of that Hallberg Rassey. I would suggest getting a lot more time aboard on some long charters somewhere other than Lake Champlain to make sure you and your wife won't kill each other after a month before you pull up stakes and sell the farm. 
Jim


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## scottbr (Aug 14, 2007)

Alfalotus44 said:


> and probably forget about the Hunter.
> Andre


Why? Hunter at least stacks up against Catalina.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

You mentioned that you liked the aft cabin with the island queen a la Hunter.

I have been offshore in two boats with this layout. The aft island queen is useless underway with any amount of heel. You would need to replace the mattress with twin mattresses, and put a lee cloth down the middle of the berth. You might also put lee clothes along each edge. I know that that will work.

Also any boat with a pullman berth requires a lee cloth as well. So do the saloon berths.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Some other features to consider.

The floor boards and all storage locker lids needs to be secured. On one offshore excursion a floor board came loose and nearly hit the skipper who was sleeping on the passageway sole. (His aft queen was useless.)

How safe is the galley underway? Does the stove gimbal properly? Do the pot holders actually hold pots on the cooking surface? Do the oven racks have lips to prevent the contents of the oven from spilling out. Does the oven door cause the stove to tip when opened. Is there a grab handle in front of the stove? Can a galley harness be fitted? Is the galley sink along the centreline so that it will drain on either tack. If the fridge is front loading, can it be opened on either tack?

Is the head usable underway? Is it narrow enough to brace yourself? If there are two heads, are they on opposite sides of the boat.

Are the bulkheads structural or simply riding in slots?

Are there sufficient grab handles to to able to walk safely around the saloon?


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## Alfalotus44 (Jan 10, 2012)

Thank you Jackdale, I take note. And thanks Scottbr, Hunter should release a new Hunter 41DS soon, ( I hope ) looking forward for that model too.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

On a related note, my wife and I plan to hike across the U.S. and are having trouble deciding on our footwear.

I want a steel toe and my wife insists on heels. We have narrowed our search down to construction boots and cowboy boots. Which do you think is better?

I have to admit that I love the fancy stitching on the cowboy boots and my wife will admit that she likes the color of the construction boot.

Please don't tell me that no one has ever walked across the U.S. in cowboy boots or construction boots, or that they will not be the most comfortable footwear for the trip!


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## Alfalotus44 (Jan 10, 2012)

You're right, Just do it!


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Alfalotus44 said:


> My wife and I are planning to sail the world, leaving in about 4 years for about 4 years. Like many of you, new in the sailing world, we went to visit a few boatshows and talked to different sailors. I found out that there is no such thing as a perfect sailboat and that compromise is the key to choose a sailboat. My wife want a secure boat and a galley in a L shape. That eliminate a lot of sailboat. (And its a good thing because I won't have to buy the new Oyster 625). Am looking for new or lightly use confortable sailboat, strong, easy to sail with in mast furling, dual wheel, electric... and without a mainsheet anchor point on the floor. (That eliminate a lot of cruiser racer). But I want a boat that moves well. For 2011 model, for around 300K, we have lower the list to 2 sailboats; The Hunter 45 DS and the Moody 45 AC.
> 
> At that price I will have to buy the Moody in Europe, without much option and it comes with 220v.
> For the same price I could buy the Hunter from a broker not far from home, with lots of equipment, Air con, bow truster, freezer etc
> ...


I think you need to do an offshore passage of at least 7 days with some beating to windward involved. I am dead serious here you have NO IDEA what spending days at sea with only two people onboard involves.

1 you will not be helming, the autopilot or windvane will be doing that. The only time you might need to helm is if conditions are so bad 'george' can not cope then and trust me on this you will not want to be standing back there exposed to the elements, you will want to be tucked up under the dodger. What good are two wheels!

2 you will not be sleeping together in that nice centreline queen on passage except in the rarest of benign conditions, you will need a single 1/4 berth or single berth with a lee cloth.

3 you need to think about cooking with your galley at 30 degrees and jumping up and down every minute or so. How could you warm up a can of stew and make a hot drink without the risk of being scalded. This has happened to a fair number of cruisers some of which were very experienced.

4 electricity you are worried about the Moody being 220 volts ?? worry more about how you are going to generate electricity on passage solar? wind? towed? main engine driven alternator? seperate generator?

5 Air Con ??? think about hatches and dorades, what could you open at sea to keep some air moving through the boat without the risk of water coming on board.

6 looks ?? worry about handholds both above deck and below deck.

7 moves well by this I guess you want some speed ?? hmm be nice but I would ALSO want to be sure that it will heave too easily cos believe me at some point you will need to do that in a circumnavigation even on the milk run route.

I realise this may come across as harsh and as a bit of a rant but some of the advice you are getting seems to come from people who have not made a long passage with only two people on board.

Time for a reality check from one who is in his 10th year as FT liveaboard and who has crossed oceans.


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## Alfalotus44 (Jan 10, 2012)

Wow, thanks TQA. This is exactly what I need. I guess like anything else, things can go easy but can also get dramatic. I'm a fast learner and every feedback from experience people is good. 
Let me hit a few balls, and I,ll get back yo you guys.

Andre


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Another consideration

Some of the boats you are considering have a lot of freeboard; they are not easy to dock in high winds. Nor is it easy to get from the deck to dock in any case.


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## Eric Harris (Apr 23, 2012)

Thank you for yourinsights as i too was interested in the Moody 45 and classic. Both the Hunter and Moody are easy on the eyes, but after attending the Strictly Sail Pacific Boat Show, am now very interested in the Tartan 4000 as a new boat or a used Island Packet 46-Any thoughts on those two options? Please advise and thank you for helping a newbie


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Hum! you have to define what you want and i don't mean only the interior. Those are pretty different boats.

Regards

Paulo


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## Eric Harris (Apr 23, 2012)

y are right, i had a sloppy post and than k you for the clarification. We want to circumnavigate once and then spend lots of time in the inn the South Pacific to new Zealand. I have owned a very nice and comfortable Hunter 40 Legend and am thinking it better to buy an older used boat that is sturdier from thee start than try to retrofit any other boat that starts out ffrom a less sturdy platform. She like the kitchens and Galleys, I like the rigging and center cockpit options wiht lots of storage and of course grreat sailing hulls. The tartan seems sturrdy at our intial review , but is not as "deep" with blue water features as is the Island Packet. I think we both prefer the IP, but need to go to a 110 ear old boat, whereas we could get a new Tartan and get eht one owner boat whle still being sturdy, capable and appeal to her. How does that logic fair to all reading?


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