# Cleating off Furling line?



## rbyham (Dec 25, 2012)

I am looking for advice on how to rig my furling line. At present it runs smoothly down port side via several stanchion mounted fairleads. 

The part I am unhappy with is where it terminates in the cockpit. As you can see in the picture I am simply creating it off to a dockline cleat. This setup works poorly in that the cleat falls behind me when sitting at helm making for uncomfortable and low leverage twisting to get it locked down. I am thinking some sort of clam cleat arrangement but unsure exactly which one and how to attach. Can anyone make a suggestion that does not involve me sending harken $150?  hopefully the picture sufficiently zooms.


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## hotdogs (Mar 5, 2008)

I'm having difficulty seeing the line in your picture, but couldn't you just remove and re-mount the existing cleat in a more appropriate spot? This would take some work, but costs should be relatively minor.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

rbyham said:


> I am looking for advice on how to rig my furling line. At present it runs smoothly down port side via several stanchion mounted fairleads.
> 
> The part I am unhappy with is where it terminates in the cockpit. As you can see in the picture I am simply creating it off to a dockline cleat. This setup works poorly in that the cleat falls behind me when sitting at helm making for uncomfortable and low leverage twisting to get it locked down. I am thinking some sort of clam cleat arrangement but unsure exactly which one and how to attach. Can anyone make a suggestion that does not involve me sending harken $150?  hopefully the picture sufficiently zooms.


In my opinion, you really want to lead your furling line thru a ratchet turning block aft, then back into the cockpit...

I run mine thru rope clutches situated before the ratchet... The yellow line is actually my boom brake, my genoa furling is on the opposite side of the boat, but hopefully this pic gives you the general idea... This setup works very well for me, I have multiple clutches that handle genoa and staysail furlers, foreguy/afterguy/preventers, boom brake and asymetrical tack line...


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Shouldn't necessarily cost $150 but methinks you're going to have to buy a more efficient cleat - I'd avoid 'clam cleats' and use a regular cam cleat, and there are several swivel cam cleats available but they edge up over $100 in a hurry.

Installing another horned cleat like you're using now in a better location (maybe on the outside of your wood coamings?) would be a less expensive solution - as would a track-mounted cleat on your rail or the very aft end of a genoa track.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

I gave up a long time ago running the furling line along the stanchions. There was too much friction in the arrangement and it loaded the stanchions too much. I just run the line directly now and cleat it off somewhere convenient.


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## rbyham (Dec 25, 2012)

Faster said:


> Shouldn't necessarily cost $150 but methinks you're going to have to buy a more efficient cleat - I'd avoid 'clam cleats' and use a regular cam cleat, and there are several swivel cam cleats available but they edge up over $100 in a hurry.
> 
> Installing another horned cleat like you're using now in a better location (maybe on the outside of your wood coamings?) would be a less expensive solution - as would a track-mounted cleat on your rail or the very aft end of a genoa track.


Ha! Stupid spell-checker. I am aware the proper term is cam cleat... I am considering a cam cleat mounted on top a teak block affixed to the coaming to get it sitting up and better aligned.


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## azguy (Jul 17, 2012)

simple horn cleat on the outside of the cockpit, you can see it in this picture but just barely...


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## rbyham (Dec 25, 2012)

Does this pic help? The furling line comes off the forward stanchion base and is a small white line that runs back to cleat at bottom of horseshoe ring. That cleat also holds the stern dockline which explains both the pile of line there and the reason for my wishing for a better setup.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

rbyham said:


> Ha! Stupid spell-checker. I am aware the proper term is cam cleat... I am considering a cam cleat mounted on top a teak block affixed to the coaming to get it sitting up and better aligned.


No.. there ARE 'clam cleats'



and 'cam cleats'..



So I was recommending the latter over the former.

Incidentally, regarding leading the furling line along deck.. don't know why more builders don't do this - but our furling line (and our spi pole downhaul) are run through our open-ended SS handrails...


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

Used a horned cleat at one time, but it tended to snag other lines at the wrong time. A cam-cleat might not be secure enough. A properly placed clutch is expensive but would work well, and is secure. Presently I just put a stopper slipknot in the line that rests against the ratchet block. Cheap, secure, no snags. 

I didn't like the leading blocks on each stanchion either so now I have a few little blocks simply fastened to the aluminum toerail. Simpler, cheaper, lighter.

When you leave the boat or weather gets boisterous you don't want that furling line coming undone no matter what.


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## trantor12020 (Mar 11, 2006)

Can't you just tie the line around itself on the furling block nearest cockpit? No need for cam or horn cleat.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Not sure exactly what size line and load you require, but Defender has a sale on rope clutches right now. I saw a few I bet would work, for $68 - $75.

Marine Rope Clutches on Sale


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Use a Harken 'hexaratchet' (with swivel and becket), mount it on or near the stern of the boat. Easy to control a loaded up line when it 'unfurls'; cleat the line off ... the hexaratchet does most of the 'holding'. 
Harken


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Whatever you do, make sure it hold the line securely and will not shake loose in a squall when you are not on the boat. If it does, and the sail unwinds, your sail will be destroyed. I would never use a clam cleat. Cam cleat or clutch is better if properly sized. I prefer a standard cleat as it the most secure. It is not something you are regularly adjusting like a traveler, so why not go with the cheapest and most secure option?


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## rbyham (Dec 25, 2012)

It sounds like a combo of cam and horned cleat would work best giving the advantage of control and security. Placement then is the challenge as I don't want to add to crowding of deck on port side of cockpit. Possibly some sort of teak base tied into coaming... Still thinking and appreciate the input here...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Horn cleats are probably the most secure, but can't you resort to the deck cleat when necessary? 

When fully unfurled, there is little concern. When fully furled, there is little load, so a clutch is perfectly sound. You could always back it with an intermediary stop knot. Reefing a furling headsail does require the clutch to take a load, although that's where you could back it with the existing cleat.

Just some further thinking, as I picture more horn cleats around the cockpit to be tangling magnets.


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## Jaramaz (Aug 9, 2013)

RichH said:


> Use a Harken 'hexaratchet' (with swivel and becket), mount it on or near the stern of the boat. Easy to control a loaded up line when it 'unfurls'; cleat the line off ... the hexaratchet does most of the 'holding'.
> Harken


Exactly what I am doing. Works fine. Load on furling line is low. PO of course installed two different cleats for the furling line - both in wrong places.

Keep it simple .... a simple knot is all what is needed.

J


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Yup, just a big slip-knot ciose to the hexaratchet is all that it takes ... back-up to a horned cleat, for safety.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

I think Jon Eisberg has the best solution. It doesn't have to be that expensive. The important bit is that really expensive failures are likely to be precluded by using the right bits.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

What do you use that eye, near the horseshow, on the toerail for?

Perhaps attach a hexaratchet block there and then leading the line back to a horn clean mounted on the side of the teak combing near the winch will put it more in reach to the cockpit ?


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## single2coil (Apr 12, 2014)

Great Thread,, I have Harken 'hexaratchet' 45mm, called Harken said use 5/16" Sta-X line. Seems too slippery , the ratchet does not grab the line. Any suggestions.
Going to add a clutch, but here we go adding too much friction.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

I used to use spinlok stantion mounted blocks, but got rid of them and now use the stantion base supports as fair leads all the way back to one at the cockpit where I mounted a strap on horn cleat. This arrangement give me a simple, low friction furling line positioned for a good pulling angle, that cleats securely and allows me to coil the furling line and hang it from the lifeline just aft of the stantion. Very simple, very neat. I also made the line just long enough for the sail to unfurl and the furling line stopper knot lay right at the base of the stantion with the cleat.
John


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## rbyham (Dec 25, 2012)

Ok one more pic... Hopefully this reveals the positioning challenge. I am very satisfied with stanchion mounted blocks and fairleads bringing the line from bow. I feel almost zero friction. My challenge is how to terminate line so that it is slightly in front of helm position. I guess a horn cleat attached to outside of coaming would be cheapest/easiest... Just thought someone here would have more exotic idea. Then again exotic usually = expensive which is not me either. The gator pic is a bonus. Saw him while sailing today...


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I think as suggested a small ratchet block on that aft most stanchion base, and use a slipknot in the line just behind it. Easier access than the outside of the coamings.

Remember you WANT some friction during unfurling so the line doesn't override itself on the drum.. the ratchet block will provide some of that for you.


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## foamy (Nov 26, 2012)

I have had two 38 foot sailboats for over 15 years, with fairleads attached to the station bases and led aft to a cam cleat on the coming in an appropriate location. I sail in an area of 12-18 knots of wind on average, and no problems with the cam cleat. Just use a cleat that is designed for the shear loads and line size. BTW I use this setup with a 155 in lighter winds and a 130 in the bigger stuff. Single handing much of the time.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

single2coil said:


> Great Thread,, I have Harken 'hexaratchet' 45mm, called Harken said use 5/16" Sta-X line. Seems too slippery , the ratchet does not grab the line. Any suggestions.
> Going to add a clutch, but here we go adding too much friction.


For a Hexaratchet to 'work' you need at least ~30-50% of its sheave circumference to be engaged with rope; you'll get that much if the furling drum control line is 'behind you' and attached to a stern rail, etc. Less than that you will get slip. 
I dont have problems with Hexs and slippery ropes, although a 'soft hand' rope will have better grip/friction on those beveled and faceted sheaves.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

an additional thought could be to purchase a cleat that attaches to your genoa track near the end of the track.

Schaefer Stainless Steel Cleat/Chock

It could also serve as a cleat for a spring line or a breast line if needed. Then you wouldn't have to attach anything to your combing or to the deck. No holes required.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

PreviousBoat: simple, effective- furling line runs aft outboard through harken stanchion blocks, then through a fairlead to cleat on coaming:








NextBoat: simple, effective- furling line runs inboard through fairleads to cleat on house:


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## rbyham (Dec 25, 2012)

I think at this point I am leaning towards a hexarachet fixed to base of stanchion just aft of helm seat. No need for holes plus the angle of pull feels right. 

However I am unsure exactly how the hexarachet works and also how to size one for my furler line. I suppose someone will ask what size my furler line. Wish I knew for sure. I can say it is yacht braid and I think about 3/8. Can anyone help point me to right size and cost effective source for the block? Thanks.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Here's a link to the Harken furler installation guide. Check page 25 for details on the furling line installation. Note the use of the ratcheting block to prevent overrides in the furling drum when letting the sail out. It maintains some tension on the line during unfurling. Not intended to replace a cleat for securing the furling line. Note the Harken guide shows a standard cleat.

http://www.harken.com/uploadedfiles/Product_Support/PDF/4417.pdf


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## sailordave (Jun 26, 2001)

aloof said:


> When you leave the boat or weather gets boisterous you don't want that furling line coming undone no matter what.


Check to see if your furling drum has holes in it so you can "Pin" the drum in place. My old style HARKEN does and when I leave the boat I almost always lock it in place. Don't have to worry as much about the sail unfurling.


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

sailordave said:


> Check to see if your furling drum has holes in it so you can "Pin" the drum in place. My old style HARKEN does and when I leave the boat I almost always lock it in place. Don't have to worry as much about the sail unfurling.


I generally bag the headsail shortly after arriving at the destination. Which seems to be a rare practice among cruisers. A cruiser friend says he has *never* taken his headsail off in 7 years. Yikes! But then I also stow most all the running rigging too.

A locking pin in the drum would be nice. I have not found it if it is there.


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## sailordave (Jun 26, 2001)

See the hole on top of the drum? That is what you want to look for. Mine is an older style furler, but you can put a 1/2" pin (I think) through and then a cotter pin to secure it in place. It locks the housing to the inner drum and the sail can not unfurl.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

sailordave said:


> See the hole on top of the drum? That is what you want to look for. Mine is an older style furler, but you can put a 1/2" pin (I think) through and then a cotter pin to secure it in place. It locks the housing to the inner drum and the sail can not unfurl.


Just about any furler drum can be modified in some way to be locked...

On my Profurls, I've simply drilled a small hole in the outer part of the drum, and a twist shackle through the vertical bar of the cage locks it... A spectra lashing could easily accomplish the same thing...


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

aloof said:


> I generally bag the headsail shortly after arriving at the destination. Which seems to be a rare practice among cruisers. A cruiser friend says he has *never* taken his headsail off in 7 years. Yikes! But then I also stow most all the running rigging too.
> 
> A locking pin in the drum would be nice. I have not found it if it is there.


Just curious, how long do you generally plan on staying at "a destination" in order to remove your headsail from the furler?


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

My setup is simple, Garhauer blocks at the base of the port side stanchions leading back to a simple horn cleat. Excess furling line is coiled and hung from the stern rail (I think this is the standard setup on Catalinas). 

When the jib is furled I snug two bungees around the jib 2-3 feet apart to make sure it can't unfurl in a storm. The jib sheets get coiled and tied off on the bow pulpit. 

The jib is safe and the decks are clear of trip hazards when climbing on and off from the finger pier.


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

JonEisberg said:


> Just curious, how long do you generally plan on staying at "a destination" in order to remove your headsail from the furler?


If I think I'm going to be there a couple of weeks. Or is there are tropical depressions in the area, or gales expected. Always if I'm away for longer than a good weather forecast, say 3 days.

It's no big deal although the sails are big. 50 or 60 feet on the luff. Takes maybe 20 minutes up or down. I think it is the sailorly thing to do. I check for loose threads and wear. Don't need that troublesome and costly UV cover.

The main stays on the boom unless I'm away for a few days. Weather dependent. Same idea. I'm away now and I bagged the main during which I discovered a disintegrating batten car and a nasty crack in the gooseneck bracket. So there's a big payoff as losing the gooseneck would be a small disaster.

Also I either sky the halyards with their tails in a dry bag, or pull them out entirely if I think they might get swiped.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

JimMcGee said:


> When the jib is furled I snug two bungees around the jib 2-3 feet apart to make sure it can't unfurl in a storm. The jib sheets get coiled and tied off on the bow pulpit.
> 
> The jib is safe and the decks are clear of trip hazards when climbing on and off from the finger pier.


It sounds like you dock bow in. If you back in jib sheets aren't an interference and generally shore power is easier to route.

Bungees around a furled headsail won't stop the wind from getting under the rolls and loosening the whole thing. I've seen lots of nasty failures that way. You are better served with a line that keeps good tension on the furled sail back to the mast or some other strong point.


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## single2coil (Apr 12, 2014)

Hello rbyham, I shopped all over web, found best price was Defender. 
Thanks to JimsCal for finding the PDF from Harken.

Adding the rachet blocks helped a lot over what I had. Seems to be less friction, much easier.


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## cthoops (Apr 30, 2012)

Is this something that everyone does? We just finished our second season with our Bristol 24 and we've never cleated off the furling line at the end of the day. We furl the jib with a few extra turns so that the jib sheet wraps around once or twice, then tuck everything into the space which is normally filled with our VHF, winch handle, water bottle, etc. when we're sailing (not sure what it's called). 

Are we supposed to be cleating it off, or is this primarily for larger boats?


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

cthoops said:


> Are we supposed to be cleating it off, or is this primarily for larger boats?


Yikes! Yes, you must cleat off the furling line. Or, better, bag the sail.

Is there any line at all that is *not* cleated off or otherwise secured when one leaves a boat? I cannot think of one.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I can't seem to find any Youtube video of an accidental unfurl in a storm.. surprising, that.

Anyhow if you've ever seen that happen you'll be sure to secure your furling line.

One extreme example happened in our marina..so here's a cautionary tale: 

A fellow had been sailing in a good blow and (fortunately) noticed that his leeward cap shroud had fallen out of the spreader tip.. He doused sail and motored back to the marina, with headsail rolled up. His normal docking situation but the failed shroud to windward, but with no sail up he thought it would be OK. It was... until the squall peaked and pulled his (uncleated) headsail out.. the mast promptly snapped at the spreaders right at the dock.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

SVAuspicious said:


> It sounds like you dock bow in. If you back in jib sheets aren't an interference and generally shore power is easier to route.


Yep, the wife feels there's more privacy when we're bow in. Shore power and dockside water hoses are long enough to reach the stern connections. Not that big of a deal. She feels better and I like the view over the water if we're sitting in the cockpit.



SVAuspicious said:


> Bungees around a furled headsail won't stop the wind from getting under the rolls and loosening the whole thing. I've seen lots of nasty failures that way. You are better served with a line that keeps good tension on the furled sail back to the mast or some other strong point.


When I roll in the jib I usually get about three turns of the jib sheets around the jib. The furling line is cleated off and the jib sheets are tied off to the bow pulpit. The bungees are snugged down and are really just an extra precaution (belt and suspenders).

I've weathered more than a few nor'easters this way and never had it loosen up.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

One advantage of a jammer is that they function as a ratchet when 1/2 open; you can stop and rest without loosing what you have gained. This is important is a breeze.

Do it right.


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## rbyham (Dec 25, 2012)

Tempest said:


> What do you use that eye, near the horseshow, on the toerail for?
> 
> Perhaps attach a hexaratchet block there and then leading the line back to a horn clean mounted on the side of the teak combing near the winch will put it more in reach to the cockpit ?


I have never been clear on the purpose of those eyes on each side. I use it to route stern lines. I actually thought that would be a good place to for something... Maybe the hexaratchet...


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## rbyham (Dec 25, 2012)

I ran by 2 WMs today hoping to see a hexaratchet. No dice. I wanted to see just how they work in terms of grabbing and releasing line.


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## knuterikt (Aug 7, 2006)

rbyham said:


> I ran by 2 WMs today hoping to see a hexaratchet. No dice. I wanted to see just how they work in terms of grabbing and releasing line.


Google / youtube is you friend
https://www.google.no/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=ratchet+block&tbm=vid


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Add me to the list of two wraps around the furled jib (I totally judge boats, evertime is see them furled with a clew tab hanging off  ) and both the jib sheets and furling line firmly secured.

In ordinary conditions, the jib sheets are just in the self tailer and the furling line clutch is closed. In a real blow, I further secure both with clove hitches around winch.


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## rbyham (Dec 25, 2012)

Thanks for the YouTube... I had actually Google it but must have missed this... Thanks.


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

Sort of on topic but a friend (really it wasn't me) was at anchor with the halyard still on the hank on Jib, not tied up at all really, still hanked on, sheets on the winches like he was still sailing and a squall came up. Well it took two full knock downs and the third one pulled the chain plate clear out of the deck leaving a pretty big hole. When everything settled down he gathered everything up and >only< had to fix the chain plate. Funny how I learned some of the things I learned but the old adage of other peoples mistakes is real.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

rbyham said:


> I ran by 2 WMs today hoping to see a hexaratchet. No dice. I wanted to see just how they work in terms of grabbing and releasing line.


Hexaratchet = $85
Horn cleat = a couple of bucks

Sometimes simple is good...


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## cthoops (Apr 30, 2012)

Well I'm glad I read this thread. We'll cleat off the line from now on. 

Thanks.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

JimMcGee said:


> Hexaratchet = $85
> Horn cleat = a couple of bucks
> 
> Sometimes simple is good...


No doubt less expensive. Whether it's good is variable. Our PO put these little horn cleats on each side of the mast. For what, I'm still not sure. Too small for any of the sail halyards and too big for the spreader flag halyard. Anyway, I did manage to jam a jib sheet into one side of one of those cleats, when tacking in a good blow. I've since removed them.

Horn cleats, depending on where they are placed, can become entanglement trouble for other lines in the vicinity too. I do wonder what other lines, such as the jib sheets, may be flogging around the location of a cleat for the OP's furling line.

Doesn't make it a bad idea. More expensive, just may be appropriately better.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

aloof said:


> If I think I'm going to be there a couple of weeks. Or is there are tropical depressions in the area, or gales expected. Always if I'm away for longer than a good weather forecast, say 3 days.
> 
> It's no big deal although the sails are big. 50 or 60 feet on the luff. Takes maybe 20 minutes up or down. I think it is the sailorly thing to do. I check for loose threads and wear. Don't need that troublesome and costly UV cover.
> 
> ...


Well, you're right, that's not something most cruisers typically do... 

I'll generally only remove my headsails when I know I won't be sailing for a month or so, or whenever I'm traveling for an extended period and the boat might be subject to heavier weather... One thing I am pretty religious about, is always trying to unfurl the sails to air-dry them after a rain, in an effort to ward off mildew, especially with laminate sails...

But, except in anticipation of a big blow, I can't imagine routinely removing my headsails while out cruising, especially at anchor... You never know when you might need them, after all... 

What's most problematic about that procedure, is that you may not always have favorable conditions to bend them on again when it's time to move... Several years ago I was headed south with my own boat late in December, and had the headsails removed. It blew like hell for the week prior to my departure, and I was forced to begin the trip without the use of the genoa... Sailed all the way to Norfolk with just the main and staysail alone, before things moderated enough to get the genoa back on... So, now whenever it's removed, it goes back on the first available calm day in anticipation of another sail or trip, I won't make that mistake again...

The other major downside to removing sails while out cruising, at least on a boat as small as mine, is that you instantly sacrifice a considerable amount of interior living space that will be occupied by the stowed sails, at a time and place where you least want to do so... And, it I were to try to stow my full-battened main inside my boat, it renders it virtually un-liveable...

nope, a mainsail cover, and UV covers on the furlers work fine for me... )


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Minnewaska said:


> Horn cleats, depending on where they are placed, can become entanglement trouble for other lines in the vicinity too. I do wonder what other lines, such as the jib sheets, may be flogging around the location of a cleat for the OP's furling line.
> 
> Doesn't make it a bad idea. More expensive, just may be appropriately better.


Minne, my post was a bit tongue in cheek. Too often we get caught up in expensive and/or complicated solutions when a simple solution may work as well (or even better).

I'd assume anyone would check for for things like "will this foul another line", but maybe I'm too optimistic.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

SVAuspicious said:


> Bungees around a furled headsail won't stop the wind from getting under the rolls and loosening the whole thing. I've seen lots of nasty failures that way. You are better served with a line that keeps good tension on the furled sail back to the mast or some other strong point.


Hell, bungee cords have no place on 'A Proper Yacht' to begin with, at least not anywhere on deck... There are probably few things that UV rots more quickly than freakin' bungee cords... 

Whenever I get aboard a boat to be moved, and find one of those big clear plastic jars of bungee cords from Harbor Freight aboard, I know I might be in for a Bad Trip...

)

Re getting a nice tight and secure furl in anticipation of a potential blow, most folks forget about the geometry of the sheeting of furling headsails, and how the angle of the sheet changes as the sail is furled if the cars are not moved forward as you go... Furling jibs _ALWAYS_ start to unravel _ABOVE_ the clew, and this is partly due to the fact that the luff of the sail is typically wrapped much more loosely than the foot... In order to assure a tight wrap of the upper portion as well, one needs to - while maintaining good pressure on the sheets - do the equivalent of moving the jib cars forward as the sail is furled. Either by having a crewmember exert sufficient downward pressure on the sheet to maintain uniformity of tension between the foot and luff, or by creating a barber haul setup or simply moving the sheeting cars forward if you're alone... If this sort of adjustment of the sheeting angle is not done while furling, as the sail is furled the foot will only be under increasing tension, while the luff/entire upper portion of the sail will become wrapped looser and looser as it is being furled... If anything, you definitely want to err on the side of getting a tighter furl above the clew, as even a loose wrap of the foot below the clew will never begin to unravel...


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

Just an FYI, Sailors exchange just got a full case of swiveling cam cleats in. 
Think they were asking 65 each?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

JonEisberg said:


> .....Furling jibs _ALWAYS_ start to unravel _ABOVE_ the clew, and this is partly due to the fact that the luff of the sail is typically wrapped much more loosely than the foot...
> 
> .....as the sail is furled the foot will only be under increasing tension, while the luff/entire upper portion of the sail will become wrapped looser and looser as it is being furled....


Interesting point that I had not really considered. As a general rule, we apply a reasonable amount of tension to the jib sheets, every time we furl for what we believe will be an extended period. A very tight furl keeps some water out too, is our theory beyond being prepared for a gale. I'm not sure, but I did have a sail loft guy come by once, for another reason, and comment that he liked how tightly we furled the headsail. (probably hopes we stretch and tear it apart and have to buy new sooner.  )

I'll have to examine how tightly the upper portion really gets. It's rare that our jib cars are extremely forward, unless we are sailing reefed. Otherwise, somewhere between half and fully aft is typical.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

I put one of these ratchet blocks in a few years ago :

Harken

The main benefit is that it makes it much easier to unfurl the jib in a controlled manner in a blow. It used to be hard to unfurl the jib to a specific percentage (have coloured tapes on the jib for 90,80,70% and so on) as you were fighting the tension on the furling line and trying to cleat it at the same time.

The second benefit is that tension is maintained on the line, which avoids wraps on the furler.

The rail mounted version in the link is very handy. I mounted it to the stern pulpit, the line does a 180 degree turn, then forward to the cleat. After reading this thread, I'm thinking about putting a cam cleat there as well as the cleat.

This block, together with a Harken halyard restrainer at the top, turned the furler from a cranky nightmare into a 100% dependable device.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

JonEisberg said:


> Re getting a nice tight and secure furl in anticipation of a potential blow, most folks forget about the geometry of the sheeting of furling headsails, and how the angle of the sheet changes as the sail is furled if the cars are not moved forward as you go... Furling jibs _ALWAYS_ start to unravel _ABOVE_ the clew, and this is partly due to the fact that the luff of the sail is typically wrapped much more loosely than the foot... In order to assure a tight wrap of the upper portion as well, one needs to - while maintaining good pressure on the sheets - do the equivalent of moving the jib cars forward as the sail is furled. Either by having a crewmember exert sufficient downward pressure on the sheet to maintain uniformity of tension between the foot and luff, or by creating a barber haul setup or simply moving the sheeting cars forward if you're alone... If this sort of adjustment of the sheeting angle is not done while furling, as the sail is furled the foot will only be under increasing tension, while the luff/entire upper portion of the sail will become wrapped looser and looser as it is being furled... If anything, you definitely want to err on the side of getting a tighter furl above the clew, as even a loose wrap of the foot below the clew will never begin to unravel...


Th clew on my Genoa is cut fairly high to give me good visibility forward with the side benefit that it wraps up equally tight above and below. Nonetheless, when ever I'm planning to be out of town or big winds are predicted, I take a short piece of 1/4 inch line and tie it around the jib as high as possible above the clew. Two wraps and a square knot in hopes the wind won't pick at it until it takes hold and shreds the jib. Seems to work.
John


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

You have lost me ... how is a ratchet block anything like a horned cleat? The ratchet block is for unfurling. The cleat is to keep the sail furled. A ratchet block, properly installed, is very handy for the shorthanded sailor with a frictionless fuller setup: it helps the furling line wind up neatly on the drum. I don't think a cleat of any type can accomplish that.


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## Jaramaz (Aug 9, 2013)

Now, let's see how complicated we can do this with cleating off a furling line ... it sounds simple, but just let me ... some extra equipment is always good to have, a good reminder for the toes. 

KISS principle ... not here. no thanks, there are other things in life. 

Me, I like the sailing. Can also enjoy some of the work connected. When arriving in harbour it is nice to put the boat to rest; but there are limits. Mainsail goes in the lazy bag - that is nice. Headsail ... UV protected, so if just for the night that is good. Maybe a thin rope around it. If longer, also a cover. That's it. Do not overdo things. 

Sail. 

/J


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## Ward H (Jun 23, 2012)

MarkSF said:


> I put one of these ratchet blocks in a few years ago :
> 
> Harken
> 
> ...


My experience also. And the furling line is always firmly tied off to a horn cleat.
Same with jib sheets. I do at least three wraps on the tightly furled sail, then lock the sheets in the STs, then lock the stopper knot on the bitter end into the horn cleats made obsolete by the STs.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

I have a cleat mounted to my pushpit.. Cheap, easy, simple. The end of the furling line sits on top of my Lifesling when I am docked.

I use the cleat:
Barton Marine 52 100 Stanchion Cleat

when I have the sail furled. If it is reefed, I use one of my mooring cleats, which is more up to the task.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

I used to have a cheap horn cleat that I mounted to the side of the coaming for my furling line. But I thought the line was in the way, and it was inconvenient to get to in a hurry. 

A couple of years ago, I decided to use a swivel cam cleat that I had lying around in the basement; the cam cleat had been a gift that was meant to be an upgrade for my Sunfish. I never installed it, and I later sold the Sunfish, so the cleat was just sitting there.

My original plan was to mount the swivel on the deck, but I later thought it would be better to affix it to a stanchion. So I mounted the swivel cam on a piece of plywood, and bracketed the thing to a stanchion. Here is a picture that I took right after I installed the unit.

I posted about the installation here, and got some good feedback. Since then, I rounded the corners of the unit and recoated it with 5 or 6 coats of polyurethane. Even so, after two years in the sun, the plys are starting to fail. I plan to replace the wood with Starboard this spring.

As for functionality, it beats the horn cleat hands down. I can belay or release the line with one hand very quickly. And the line is now out of the way, yet easily accessible.


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## rbyham (Dec 25, 2012)

mstern said:


> I used to have a cheap horn cleat that I mounted to the side of the coaming for my furling line. But I thought the line was in the way, and it was inconvenient to get to in a hurry.
> 
> A couple of years ago, I decided to use a swivel cam cleat that I had lying around in the basement; the cam cleat had been a gift that was meant to be an upgrade for my Sunfish. I never installed it, and I later sold the Sunfish, so the cleat was just sitting there.
> 
> ...


I can see how alignment would work with your setup. But are you saying you do need cleat off aft of the cam cleat? I am not sure I would trust a cam cleat hold if away from the boat.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

rbyham said:


> I can see how alignment would work with your setup. But are you saying you do need cleat off aft of the cam cleat? I am not sure I would trust a cam cleat hold if away from the boat.


Normally, I do not cleat off the line aft of the swivel cam. However, if there is weather approaching or if I know I won't be on the boat for awhile, I do cleat off the furling line on one of the jib sheet cleats. Here is another view of the swivel cleat set up. It's a pretty robust piece of hardware.


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## Seaduction (Oct 24, 2011)




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