# considering a ferro cement boat



## Agri (Dec 5, 2011)

I've been eyeballing this boat for a few months now. I know nothing about cement boats which makes me really really hesitant. They just recently dropped the price by a considerable amount though. If I go and look at it what are some questions I should ask, or things to lookout for.

Also kind of hoping there are other west coast sailors on here, who might know something about this vessel. From What I've been able to find out she's been around for awhile.

32' Ferro Cement sailboat SUNRISE North Saanich & Sidney , Victoria


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## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

Forget it, choose one made of paper mache instead. There's a reason, insurance companies will not cover Ferro boats. Concrete is inherently weak under compressive load and is porous requiring a metal stiffener ie rebar, and a waterproof sealant covering the hull. It's not about the concrete, it's about the prevention of catastrophic failure after the rebar turns to mush.


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## saillife (Jun 25, 2006)

I'm not a fan of cement boats. Biggest problem I can think of is fixing any kind of 'ding' in the hull. It's not easy to fix cement. They were big in the late 60's early 70's. I am sure there has to be a reason you don't see them much anymore.


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

Well built ferro boats last a long time, and are often low priced. Try looking for a ferrocement boat forum or blog, almost everyone here has fg. Those with experience can tell you what to look for.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Ferro is easy to fix. Minor dings with epoxy + filler. I helped out on a big repair where a an area byy the rudder pintle had crumpled on impact with the bottom.

Hammered out the old cement squared up the armature and welded in some extra reinforcement. Plastered it up on day two and painted a week later. 

The first ferro boat ever built is still afloat as are WW2 barges. 

32 is small for a ferro boat so she is likely to be heavy compared to a grp hull. 

Shed load of character though.

If everything works at 5 to 7.5 k that is a lot of boat for the money.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Biggest issue with fero is you will have a hard time selling it. I imagine that is why it was donated to this charity, likely could not sell it. 

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

saillife said:


> I'm not a fan of cement boats. Biggest problem I can think of is fixing any kind of 'ding' in the hull. It's not easy to fix cement. They were big in the late 60's early 70's. I am sure there has to be a reason you don't see them much anymore.


That is 100% incorrect - ferro is probably the easiest medium to repair - chip out the fractured mortar, straighten out the mesh, epoxy coat the edges and re-mortar the "hole".

A *properly built* ferro boat rarely needs any repairs either - they can take a phenomenal amount of abuse.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Agri said:


> I've been eyeballing this boat for a few months now. I know nothing about cement boats which makes me really really hesitant. They just recently dropped the price by a considerable amount though. If I go and look at it what are some questions I should ask, or things to lookout for.
> 
> Also kind of hoping there are other west coast sailors on here, who might know something about this vessel. From What I've been able to find out she's been around for awhile.
> 
> 32' Ferro Cement sailboat SUNRISE North Saanich & Sidney , Victoria


For that price you pretty well can't lose - you could part it out for more than that. Look at the price of the Fisher 30's for sale - 10 X as much for a quite similar boat in fiberglass.

If its condition is similar to the pics and you expect it to be a keeper, go for it - just don't expect to easily sell it or to make any money based on improvements.


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## Bob142 (May 27, 2012)

Approach with caution... the counter says that 205 people have looked at it and not taken it...But I agree with SloopJonB it looks like the price could be in the jewelery and rigging...


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Hmmmm....... 

Gut instinct says RUN AWAY. 

But..... I bought a sinking wooden boat that was for sale after she was donated to a charity and sailed her and lived on her for 8 great years. 



Here are my thoughts. If you have the money to buy fiberglass then by God buy fiberglass! I speak from experience here. If, on the other hand, you are really short of coin and this is the only way you can get into the minimum size boat you need, then it might be a good prospect. Consider all funds spent to be a "sunk cost" (oh yes that pun was intended) and you may have to donate her to get rid of her when she's done. Since you know nothing about ferro boats you must assume the worst and be prepared for the consequences. I bought a wooden boat and knew nothing of them and suffered some consequences myself. 


What do you want her for? Are there any glass boats in your price range that can do what you want? If your choice is between a 27ft Catalina that will fit the bill, or this boat which seems like "more boat for the money" then go with the Catalina. If this is the only way you'll get a liveaboard/cruiser for your funds then maybe its a good idea.

Buy glass if you can. If you can't, then proceed with caution.... 

MedSailor (Recovering wooden boat owner)


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

So 

... compared to GRP she will be slow. Like steel at that size. 

... difficult to insure.

... you pay $5000 for her don't expect to make a profit not matter what you do to her.

but .... she is as much motor sailor as anything else and could be a seriously comfortable old lump of a thing, perfect for the PNW. Provided of course she is not about to sink, (pics indicate good condition but when where they taken ?) is mechanically OK and she has a nicely laid out interior that only needs a bit of spit and polish. Anything else is just maintenance which you'll pay on a hundred grander anyway.

Use the old girl for a few years then if you are very very lucky indeed and have spent way to much money on her you might just re-sell her for $5000. 

Or not.

Seriously, there is a couple in our neck of the woods with an absolutely lovely old floating footpath that from a boat length away you would not recognise as concrete. Beautiful boat, worth bugger all, they've had her for years and love her.

Andrew B


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

If you really want it, wait another month and see what happens to the price.


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

Ferro cement gets a lot of flack from many who know little about it. Just like any boat they need maintenance. 

Truth is we won a World War with cement ships. Look up the Palo Alto. It was intentionally sunk in 1929 and considering it has been sitting unmaintained ever since it is still recognizable as a ship.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

IronSpinnaker said:


> Ferro cement gets a lot of flack from many who know little about it. Just like any boat they need maintenance.
> 
> Truth is we won a World War with cement ships. Look up the Palo Alto. It was intentionally sunk in 1929 and considering it has been sitting unmaintained ever since it is still recognizable as a ship.


Not saying you are wrong on this, but if no one is willing to open their wallet to buy one, then it basically has no value.


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

Finding somebody willing to open their wallet and buy any used boat can be a challenge regardless of what it is made from.

It will be a much lighter boat then a steel hull or even aluminum.

A cubic foot of steel weighs about 420 lbs.
Aluminum is about 170 lbs
Cement is 140 lbs.

The year this one was built it would have been re-enforced with wire mesh, now days they use mono fiber to reinforce.

Cement gains strength with age. The older it gets the stronger it becomes.

The only reason(s) they are not built this way commercially is because ferro cement is labor intensive. They can't slap one after another out of a mold like they can with fiberglass. The mold is a permanent part of the boat which has to be re-constructed with every vessel.


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## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

IronSpinnaker:899985 said:


> Cement gains strength with age. The older it gets the stronger it becomes.
> 
> The only reason(s) they are not built this way commercially is because ferro cement is labor intensive. They can't slap one after another out of a mold like they can with fiberglass. The mold is a permanent part of the boat which has to be re-constructed with every vessel.


Wow, engineers. While somewhat true, concrete gets harder with age, it also gets more brittle. This is why it must be reinforced. There's a reason why infrastructures fail as concrete is leached out by rainwater, frost and ice. Concrete is permiable. Like all masonary it reacts to water. I've seen many Ferro boats that look like they were faired with a shovel and broom, when in fact it's the rebar swelling from inside the concrete, pushing outwards. The effect increases over time allowing for more water intrusion and ultimately catastrophic failure.

Labour costs have little to do with building boats from concrete. When any other boat is built other than fiberglass, the "mould" goes with the boat. Boats built from concrete in war times we designed to cheap and expendable just as it was used during the 60's to build cheap boats. Ferro in all ways is a failure as a boat construction materiel. There's a reason there are fewer and fewer remaining as most have become unidentifiable reefs sitting on the bottom of the Atlantic and Pacific.


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## anthony1 (Nov 24, 2009)

Hello All
My 2 cents worth.
On the hard at the marina we use there is a ferro cement boat and for sale I might add and has been for quite some time (5years+). Reason, its got a crack and it leaks the worst of it is that the owner cannot find the crack. He knows it is below the water line and thats all. Like one the other comments the money is in the jewelry and rigging.
My vote is NO. We have a 1975 Macgregor 25 that we sail and she is a great boat for her age. Bought for a few thousand and we did not regret buying her.
Anthony


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

IronSpinnaker said:


> It will be a much lighter boat then a steel hull or even aluminum.
> 
> A cubic foot of steel weighs about 420 lbs.
> Aluminum is about 170 lbs
> ...


Sorry but this is not the case.

A steel boat of this size will be 3/16 thick.

An Ali boat 1/4 thick

Ferro at least an inch thick. So the hull will be about 50% heavier than steel and 100% heavier than Ali.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

IronSpinnaker said:


> Finding somebody willing to open their wallet and buy any used boat can be a challenge regardless of what it is made from.


True but presumably it's a temporary economic situation with glass boats - it's permanent with ferro. You have to assume it has and will have virtually no value.



> It will be a much lighter boat then a steel hull or even aluminum.
> 
> A cubic foot of steel weighs about 420 lbs.
> Aluminum is about 170 lbs
> Cement is 140 lbs.


There's a lot more to it than raw material density - a ferro boat will be the heaviest in nearly all cases. 12 Lbs per square foot of skin is about the minimum that can be obtained. It is very difficult to get a skin thickness of 3/4" - most are over an inch. The old rule of thumb in ferro's heyday was that once past 50ish feet things evened out re: weight but boats have gotten a LOT lighter since then. My Columbia 43 (1970) weighs 22K Lbs and was considered dangerously light in its day - a similar sized ferro boat would be twice that in most cases. A current glass boat that size would be in the teens in most cases.



> Cement gains strength with age. The older it gets the stronger it becomes.


That was one of John Samson's favourite promotional bits. Mostly an old wives tale - while technically true in the strictest theoretical sense, it is a meaningless effect that is offset and then some by external stresses on the boat. Ferro IS a very strong but very heavy medium. I can't imagine why anyone would build one nowadays but there are some extreme bargains out there in the existing fleet - you have to search through a lot of coal to find the odd uncut diamond though.



> The only reason(s) they are not built this way commercially is because ferro cement is labor intensive. They can't slap one after another out of a mold like they can with fiberglass. The mold is a permanent part of the boat which has to be re-constructed with every vessel.


Not true - one of the methods of construction was the use of a wooden male mold covered in sheet plastic - it was removed after rolling the hull and could be re-used. Samson had set up for series production of a 32' near the end of ferro's bubble in the 70's. One of those hulls still exists in the boatyard where I keep my boat.


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## SVTatia (May 7, 2007)

Nice looking boat.
If you decide to buy check with insurance companies in your area.
Most marinas require insurance and a Ferro boat is very difficult to insure.


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

Displacement is going to very based on design;

But item 105 here: The World Of Ferro-cement Boats is a 50 ft FC boat and displaces 18 tons.

And here is a 50 ft steel hull: 1968 Columbia 50 sailboat for sale in Washington
only 2 ton difference.

I looked into the boat in question. It is a 1 owner boat. he built it and sailed it up to 2006. He is now 90 and can't sail it so he donated it to a maritime museum which is selling it as they have no other use for it.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

IronSpinnaker said:


> Look up the Palo Alto. It was intentionally sunk in 1929 and considering it has been sitting unmaintained ever since it is still recognizable as a ship.


Also look up the floating breakwater in Powell River B.C. Those old hulls are a century old and still floating. Some of them look like 19th century lumber schooner hulls, with raised fo'csles and poop decks.

The fact that Lambot's ferro dinghy is still floating in France is a testament to the mediums longevity. I sure wouldn't want to try and get it on deck though. 

The fact is that a heavy displacement design, *properly built* in ferro can be a perfectly good boat. Mainly due to Samson being based here, there are quite a few around the Salish Sea - a few of them are very nice boats, some are functional in a workboat kind of way and the majority are junk built by underfunded dreamers who "knew a better way". If you learn the truth about the material and search carefully you can get a decent boat for next to nothing but it will have no "investment" value (as if any boat does.)

Since glass boats are so cheap these days though, I question whether ferro , even a good one, is worth it.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

IronSpinnaker said:


> Displacement is going to very based on design;
> 
> But item 105 here: The World Of Ferro-cement Boats is a 50 ft FC boat and displaces 18 tons.
> 
> ...


The Columbia 50 is glass, as is noted in the ad. It is a 60's design and would be a very heavy 50' today. A 50' ferro boat that weighed only 36K Lbs would be a rarity - 50K would be more typical of a ferro boat that size.

The fact is that to get a halfway decent amount of ballast, a ferro design HAS to be a heavy displacement design - the minimum hull skin thickness mandates that. The Samson SM 32 I referenced earlier had a displacement of around 14K with a fin keel of about 2K.

Those numbers improve as the boats size goes up since the skin thickness stays the same so it becomes relatively lighter. A 72' pavement princess named Helsal won the Sydney Hobart in the early 70's - she was actually LIGHTER than some of her similar sized competitors IIRC.


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## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

SloopJonB:900086 said:


> IronSpinnaker said:
> 
> 
> > Look up the Palo Alto. It was intentionally sunk in 1929 and considering it has been sitting unmaintained ever since it is still recognizable as a ship.
> ...


Yet, who'd go to sea in a concrete dingy or a concrete barge? You can find anything on the internet from boats made from garbage, paper to one of glued together beer cans. There's a significant difference between floating and seaworthy. It is what it is.


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

I searched steel, oh well.

48 ft 1981 DE VRIES LENTSCH MOTORSAILER SEAGOING sailboat for sale in Outside United States 15 ton

50 ft 2006 Van de Stadt Cutter 50 sailboat for sale in Outside United States 17.5 ton

50 ft 1989 Phinn Yacht Schooner sailboat for sale in Florida 16 ton

45 ft: SPRAY 45 STEEL KITS, boat plans, boat building, boatbuilding, steel boat kits, boat kits 20 ton


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## trevorN (Jul 22, 2012)

Probably a great hull material if you plan on sailing around the horn of Africa where pirates are a problem because it is bulletproof. It seems like I read an article about some guy in an old ferro cement sailboat who was attacked by pirates and he fired up the engine and rammed and sank the pirate boat.

A 42' ferro cement sailboat broke loose at a local marina during hurricane Ernnesto and it basicly destroyed the marina and sank most of the other boat moored near it. The only damage it suffered was some scratched paint.


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## Agri (Dec 5, 2011)

Thanks for all the responses so far. I emailed the seller and got a bit more info. She displaces about 10 tons which seems heavyish to me.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

If it costs you $7K and you live aboard it for 7 months, saving 7K in rent ,the boat is free. Then the rigging and gear are all freebees. You quickly reach the point where it owes you nothing. Plus, you had a lot more fun than paying rent to live in an apartment.
Most were sprayfoamed, the best insulation you can get. They are far more comfortable to live aboard , light years more comfortable than most fibreglass boats. 
I've never heard of any cement boat having any structural problems whatever, at sea, even in hurricanes.It is high in compression strength ( 15,000 PSI) and low in tensile strength(1,500 psi , same as wood.).
They dont survive collisons with rocks so well. I lost my first boat in Fiji ,a cement boat, on a coral reef , in conditions my steel boat would have had absolutely no problems with. It will be slow , but not much slower than most boats with several years living aboard ballast ( junk) .
Keep her off the rocks and you will get your moneys worth of enjoyment out of her. Stay away from Catalinas. Those would be like living in an ice cube.


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## Agri (Dec 5, 2011)

Sorry hit post by accident. Her beam is 11 feet and she draws 5'2". The rigging is galvanized steel. The mesh used during construction was galvanized as well. The sails are about 20 years old, apparently lightly used. They also sent a link to a PDF that has photos of her at various stages of construction. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/59756107/SUNRISE%2C%20Peter%20Waldrin%27s%20Cutter.pdf

The heavy displacement concerns me especially in light winds. Just to give you an idea of what I'd be using her for, I'm taking the next year or more off and plan on cruising around van isle, the inside passage and hadai gwai. Most of the time I'll be single handed. Other then this boat I've mainly been considering vessels under 30 feet, with a tendency towards albin vegas. A bigger boat would mean I have more room for my tools which could increase my chances of finding the odd job along the coast.

Resale is not an issue. I was going to post a link to the survey, didn't know if that would be ethical though.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Agri,
Just looking at the pics and knowing she is ferro tells me she will be slow given her size. Its the problem with ferro and steel boats under forty odd feet. There is a lot of weight in the hull itself and in order to keep the displacement down this weight tends to come out of the keel.
As an example, our old girl was a Van de Stadt 34, steel multi chine. A good mate of ours has one in cold moulded ply. Standard specs for a VDS34 in steel is Disp 5.4t, timber 4.5t. At the same time the steel boat carries only 1.8t of ballast against the timbers 2.0t. Now we did a lot of miles in that old girl and she was a marvelous boat but quick (especially in light air) she was not. 
So if you want to sail, and you know a lot of that will be in light airs then my guess is that this boat is not for you. Otoh, as a warm cozy motor sailor for the PNW she just might fit the bill.


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## scratchee (Mar 2, 2012)

I think you'd be OK, but I have no concrete evidence.

Look, I got nothin', OK?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"It will be a much lighter boat then a steel hull or even aluminum.
A cubic foot of "

Right, and a ferrocement hull will be the same 1/4" thick as metal plate, will it? More likely, two inches thick to keep the rebar buried, so the typical ferro hull will always be HEAVIER than a metal hull. 

This is the problem with ferrocement, often built improperly, maintained improperly, enough of both so that's there's been no commercial market for it. IF someone is willing to study it, learn it, choose a boat with a professionally built hull, maintain it properly...it may be the right choice. For the casual and uneducated buyer?

It is usually a disaster with no resale value.


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

Agri: Thanks for linking the dropbox. Neat information to look at.

Hello: A ferro hull averages 0.5 inches in thickness usually. We have already established in this thread that in the 50 ft range they are the same weight as steel and over that they become lighter than steel counterparts.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

IronSpinnaker said:


> Hello: A ferro hull averages 0.5 inches in thickness usually.


I think you'll have a GREAT deal of difficulty finding a 1/2 inch ferro hull. Maybe a dinghy somewhere. 1/2 inch rod was the norm for the structural reinforcing so the hull has to be a lot thicker than that, even with properly interleaved square mesh.

That vast majority of ferro cruising boat hulls are well over an inch. The best ones, built with the best materials and methods sometimes get down to 3/4 inch but it would be unusual.


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

The 0.5 inch re-bar isn't in the hull skin it's self, only in the gunwale, keel, bulk heads etc...usually welded and/or twisted wire is re-enforcing the hull it's self and 0.5 inches is plenty to cover. They are thick in all the same places that any boat of any construction material is also thick. 

I have seen some that were so thin you could see the rusty outline of the mesh on the hull.

My point is that they are not 2 inches (as hello suggested) thick in any case unless very poorly built and plastered heavy.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

IronSpinnaker said:


> The 0.5 inch re-bar isn't in the hull skin it's self, only in the gunwale, keel, bulk heads etc...usually welded and/or twisted wire is re-enforcing the hull it's self and 0.5 inches is plenty to cover. They are thick in all the same places that any boat of any construction material is also thick.
> 
> I have seen some that were so thin you could see the rusty outline of the mesh on the hull.
> 
> My point is that they are not 2 inches (as hello suggested) thick in any case unless very poorly built and plastered heavy.


With all due respect, I think you might want to read up a bit on this process - there is a complex armature of rods that defines the entire hull and gives it shape and strength. The mesh basically just fills in the gaps between rods and holds the mortar. In a sense it's a little like C-Flex fiberglass. A hull that only had an "outline" of rods would have virtually no tensile strength. The only hull that could be built the way you describe would be a VERY small one - a dinghy.

The boats that show mesh on the outside were simply badly plastered, not thin.

Agreed that a 2 inch hull represents poor work but 1/2 inch on a big boat ain't gonna happen no matter how skilled the builder.

Take a look at the ferro site link that's listed in an earlier post - lots of pics of hulls under construction.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"The 0.5 inch re-bar isn't in the hull skin it's self, only in the "
Gee, the pictures I've seen must have all been lies?
Maybe "modern" fc hulls are being built lighter, but the ones I've been on, and seen construction shots of, have always been WAY thicker than 1/2" and have had rebar all though the structure. And when you have two pieces of rebar crossing at right angles--that's an inch thick, before the plaster is applied.

Bottom line, ferrocement has not conquered the world, it has pretty much been relegated to "go sit in the corner and pout" and that's not for lack of trying, or lack of advocates. The vast majority of shipyards, insurers, boaters, don't want to deal with it.

Ever seen a ferrocement cruise ship? Warship? Supertanker? America's Cup entry? Ferry? Rescue lifeboat? Construction in experiments and wartime material shortages doesn't count. Utility barges that were replaced with new steel ones fifty year ago don't count. let's talk here, now, on the market. Ferrocement just can't get a seat at the table, there's got to be some reason for that.


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## Agri (Dec 5, 2011)

I've been doing some digging into the design of this boat, apparently it's based off a Westsail 32. WESTSAIL 32 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com Here is a quick comparison of the numbers weight wise. Westsail displaces 19500lbs carries 6600lbs of ballast. The boat in question weighs 24000lbs and apparently has over three tons of ballast. So she's 4500lbs heavier and carries approximately the same amount of ballast. Other then that she is 2 inches wider and has 2 inches deeper draft then the boat she is based off.

Another thread on here regarding ferro boats indicates there would be more weight carried topside, which makes sense. How big of a problem might this be if the weight was still proportionally the same every where else?

Other then that, this boat was used for charters and so was insured as of 2007. Seeing as it's 40 years old still floating, recently insured, and after seeing acll the pictures of her under construction I am inclined to think she was built properly.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Agri said:


> I've been doing some digging into the design of this boat, apparently it's based off a Westsail 32. WESTSAIL 32 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com Here is a quick comparison of the numbers weight wise. Westsail displaces 19500lbs carries 6600lbs of ballast. The boat in question weighs 24000lbs and apparently has over three tons of ballast. So she's 4500lbs heavier and carries approximately the same amount of ballast. Other then that she is 2 inches wider and has 2 inches deeper draft then the boat she is based off.
> 
> Another thread on here regarding ferro boats indicates there would be more weight carried topside, which makes sense. How big of a problem might this be if the weight was still proportionally the same every where else?
> 
> Other then that, this boat was used for charters and so was insured as of 2007. Seeing as it's 40 years old still floating, recently insured, and after seeing acll the pictures of her under construction I am inclined to think she was built properly.


That boat was not based on the Westie, it was based on the same design the Westie was based on - the Atkins "Eric" I believe. Samson had it in his stock plans before the Westie phenomenon struck. The Fisher style pilothouse gives it a very different character.

A couple of points about the weight of ferro boats; the extra weight of hull below the waterline can be regarded in a sense as "spread out ballast" so the ballast weight differential isn't as great as the numbers would lead you to think. Granted, more centralized ballast is better but all deep weight, be it ballast, tankage, batteries etc. adds to the righting moment and stability of the boat. I remember reading Hiscock wherein he said he would have preferred Wanderer III to have had more spread out ballast - he felt it would have given her an easier motion. In a ferro boat, that spread out weight is inbuilt.

Next, boats with integral ferro decks are to be avoided because that adds a LOT of weight up high. The best way is to have a ferro shelf, integral to the hull, that supports deck beams and a conventional glass over ply deck and house.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

IronSpinnaker said:


> I searched steel, oh well.
> 
> 48 ft 1981 DE VRIES LENTSCH MOTORSAILER SEAGOING sailboat for sale in Outside United States 15 ton


Uh, that's 30,000 *KILOS* or 66,000 Lbs/33 tons


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## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

There's a reason they're so inexpensive. Most things, as they become more rare, increase in value. Not true of concrete boats.


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

SloopJonB said:


> Uh, that's 30,000 *KILOS* or 66,000 Lbs/33 tons


So the weight point is mute... This steel is twice as heavy as the FC counterpart I linked earlier... And two foot shorter.


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

sww914 said:


> There's a reason they're so inexpensive. Most things, as they become more rare, increase in value. Not true of concrete boats.


I encourage you to search these listings: The World Of Ferro-cement Boats

You will find many 30-40 year old ferro boats with asking prices in the 30-50K range. Try finding a 30 year old fiberglass boat worth buying.


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## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

IronSpinnaker:900934 said:


> sww914 said:
> 
> 
> > There's a reason they're so inexpensive. Most things, as they become more rare, increase in value. Not true of concrete boats.
> ...


POPpYCOCK


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

IronSpinnaker said:


> I encourage you to search these listings: The World Of Ferro-cement Boats
> 
> You will find many 30-40 year old ferro boats with asking prices in the 30-50K range. Try finding a 30 year old fiberglass boat worth buying.


OH PLEASE.......Did you mean to say what you did or as it one big typo:laugher
I can see nothing wrong with a well founded ferro boat but, pull your head in and look around you, there are a lot more glass boats in that 30-40 age that are well cared for and worth much more than a comparable ferro.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Uh, you're comparing a 32' boat to a 48' boat, and saying that proves ferro is superior because the boat which is less than half the volume, is lighter?

I've never heard anyone, including the few yards thatprofessionally built ferro, claim it had any weight advantage. Except you, and your "numbers" just seem to prove the opposite, even without construction specifics.


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## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

IronSpinnaker said:


> I encourage you to search these listings: The World Of Ferro-cement Boats
> 
> You will find many 30-40 year old ferro boats with asking prices in the 30-50K range. Try finding a 30 year old fiberglass boat worth buying.


Are you a comedian? That's a good one.:laugher:laugher:laugher


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

hellosailor said:


> Uh, you're comparing a 32' boat to a 48' boat,


Please see post # 21 again. I am comparing item #105 under for sale which is a 50 ft FC hull and half the weight of the steel hull listed above which is 48 ft.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

IronSpinnaker said:


> I encourage you to search these listings: The World Of Ferro-cement Boats
> 
> You will find many 30-40 year old ferro boats with asking prices in the 30-50K range. Try finding a 30 year old fiberglass boat worth buying.


That is just a silly statement and the asking price of a boat is hardly relevant in this economy. I am sitting on a 30 year old FG boat that would retail for something like $140K and is the midst of a circumnavigation. With proper upkeep I don't see why the boat won't be just as capable in another 30 years. Have a look at the prices of Bermuda 40s some of which are close to 50 years old.

There are 130+ boats sitting here in Darwin, Australia leaving for Indonesia in the morning. They range from 32 to 60'. Not a ferro-cement boat to be seen and this is the kind of use that this material was promoted for. We have sailed more than 20K miles in the last few years and I can only think of one ferro boat that we have seen out of several hundred extended cruisers


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

killarney_sailor said:


> That is just a silly statement and the asking price of a boat is hardly relevant in this economy. I am sitting on a 30 year old FG boat that would retail for something like $140K and is the midst of a circumnavigation. With proper upkeep I don't see why the boat won't be just as capable in another 30 years. Have a look at the prices of Bermuda 40s some of which are close to 50 years old.
> 
> There are 130+ boats sitting here in Darwin, Australia leaving for Indonesia in the morning. They range from 32 to 60'. Not a ferro-cement boat to be seen and this is the kind of use that this material was promoted for. We have sailed more than 20K miles in the last few years and I can only think of one ferro boat that we have seen out of several hundred extended cruisers


I am in the Eastern Caribbean and while I don't see many ferrocement boats I can remember seeing at least 6 or 7 in the last few months and am anchored next to one in Grenada just now.


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

killarney_sailor said:


> There are 130+ boats sitting here in Darwin, Australia leaving for Indonesia in the morning. They range from 32 to 60'. Not a ferro-cement boat to be seen


Look on sailboatlistings.com. there are always 50-100 FC hulls on there at any given time. FC is pretty popular in areas around Mediterranean.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"Look on sailboatlistings.com. "
he's talking about zero FC boats in a cruising fleet, you're proving your point by saying...all the FC boats are listed on soe web site, where thelistings sometimes are one and two and three years old? Yes, I've seen some very old listings on that site. No, I'm not even going to count the FC ones.
As galileo said, nevertheless it turns. FC boats? How many FC sailors are out here? Do you own and sail one?


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

IronSpinnaker said:


> Look on sailboatlistings.com. there are always 50-100 FC hulls on there at any given time. FC is pretty popular in areas around Mediterranean.


Out of how many thousands?


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## Agri (Dec 5, 2011)

SloopJonB said:


> That boat was not based on the Westie, it was based on the same design the Westie was based on - the Atkins "Eric" I believe. Sampson had it in his stock plans before the Westie phenomenon struck. The Fisher style pilothouse gives it a very different character.


Thanks for setting me staight on that. Looked up the "Eric" it only displaced 19000lbs so this boat is 5000lbs heavier then that. I think that the pilot house was added to the design by the owner, pictures I've found of other c-mists don't have it.

Cruising around the web I've found a couple of good discussions on this topic.
Ferro Cement Hulls ? - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
ferro-cement - Boat Design Forums

From everything I've read sounds like the best way to test the strength of one of these hulls is to simply take it out of the water to see if it collapses or not.

I've also just realized that my grandpas fishing boat is most likely a FC boat. At last years family reunion when he hit something going into salt lagoon on porcher island he patched her with a bag of cement. I'm hoping to get should of him to find out but he doesn't have a phone or the internet. If it is though that would be a huge check in the plus column. He's ran her aground a few times and she still floats.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Agri said:


> Thanks for setting me staight on that. Looked up the "Eric" it only displaced 19000lbs so this boat is 5000lbs heavier then that. I think that the pilot house was added to the design by the owner, pictures I've found of other c-mists don't have it.
> 
> Cruising around the web I've found a couple of good discussions on this topic.
> Ferro Cement Hulls ? - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
> ...


Try to find an old copy of Bruce Bingham's book - Ferro-Cement - it was the best book on the subject IMO. It explains the different construction techniques. Even if you decide against a ferro boat, there's a lot of stuff in it on the other aspects of boat construction - laminating beams, making handrails, fitting hardware etc. I've seen copies of it in consignment shops, used bookstores and so forth.


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## rackham the red (Jun 24, 2012)

Please put this out of your mind. There are still boats around that were built in the 60's but that doesn't mean they are still seaworthy unless your put a lot of maintenance hours.

Cement of that age has lost significant strength and the rebar has to have oxidized.

Run fast Run far


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## rackham the red (Jun 24, 2012)

Just another thought. If you want to buy this boat and it is the one you can afford
contact me via private chat and I will give you some new cement epoxies that have excellent strength characteristics. You can use my engineering discount and maybe buy enough to skin the whole boat if necessary

Rochelle


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## Sailmon (Sep 30, 2009)

Run. Run fast.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

42 year old FG seems fine ?


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

tommays said:


> 42 year old FG seems fine ?


LOL... Yeah Refit


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Ferro boats get painted ?


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

tommays said:


> Ferro boats get painted ?


Frequently - sometimes with a bucket and mop.  I remember a C-Mist (like the subject boat) that was extremely well built & fair but they had steel troweled it to such a smooth, almost glossy finish that paint wouldn't stick for more than a few months before it started flaking off in big patches.


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## Agri (Dec 5, 2011)

I was looking over the pictures of the sea fever refit, there seemed to be an excessive amount of blistering/pocmarks in the hull. Is that a common problem in ferro boats?


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Mine has never had blisters the one in the link looked like a lot of gouges ?

Seafever is a common name 

SO i gotta think its gonna depend on the boat yore looking at


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## IronSpinnaker (Mar 28, 2011)

Agri said:


> I was looking over the pictures of the sea fever refit, there seemed to be an excessive amount of blistering/pocmarks in the hull. Is that a common problem in ferro boats?


Nope... That is a fiberglass boat.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

OK, here's the skinny on ferro boats.
Properly built (mostly yard built, though a few home built) ferro boats cannot be beat for toughness & ease of maintenance. If the rebar was properly coated against rust before the ferro went on, then there should be little or no interior rust. Also a professional plasterer (again, back to the yard built or meticulous private builder) was a must to insure that the cement thoroughly impregnated the wire mesh and rebar. If you see bulges anywhere in the hull or cracks in the ferro, I would take that to mean there is rust underneath. If you really like this boat & really want it, then dig a small hole in a bulge or if no bulges, somewhere under the waterline at a bend in the hull (keel/hull, rudder/prop area) & inspect the rebar. If all's well you will learn to repair your new boat or you'll have to pay to get it fixed for the owner, but you've saved 5 g's.
I have personally seen a ferro boat very similar to that one lay on a reef in Hawaii for five days digging a huge depression in the reef and only putting a 2x3 foot hole in the hull AFTER she was on the reef for 4 days. I've seen others fall apart in the slip.
Sampson is not a great designer; most of his designs are VERY uncomfortable sea boats, but I honestly am not familiar with the design you are looking at.
Good luck; it looks like it would be a nice cruiser if it is sound.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

capta said:


> Sampson is not a great designer; most of his designs are VERY uncomfortable sea boats, but I honestly am not familiar with the design you are looking at. Good luck; it looks like it would be a nice cruiser if it is sound.


Samson was not a designer, he was a promoter and a good one, if a bit (actually a lot) eccentric. Most of his boats were designed by Cec Norris but some were designed by others - Tom Timmerman for one.

Don't forget, most of those boats were designed in the 60's and few of them were "current" even then because of the displacement requirement of the medium.


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## Agri (Dec 5, 2011)

Is there a website or preferably a book that I could look at to read about his designs?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Agri said:


> Is there a website or preferably a book that I could look at to read about his designs?


Try this ...

https://sites.google.com/site/johnsamsonmemorium/Home/samson-marine-and-cruising

and this ...

Amazon.com: How to build a ferro-cement boat: John Samson: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@515IkDdbxaL


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## Agri (Dec 5, 2011)

SloopJonB said:


> A couple of points about the weight of ferro boats; the extra weight of hull below the waterline can be regarded in a sense as "spread out ballast" so the ballast weight differential isn't as great as the numbers would lead you to think. Granted, more centralized ballast is better but all deep weight, be it ballast, tankage, batteries etc. adds to the righting moment and stability of the boat. I remember reading Hiscock wherein he said he would have preferred Wanderer III to have had more spread out ballast - he felt it would have given her an easier motion.


Why would the motion be easier if the ballast was spread out rather then at the bottom of the keel? I've been trying to figure this out, but I'm drawing a blank.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Agri said:


> Why would the motion be easier if the ballast was spread out rather then at the bottom of the keel? I've been trying to figure this out, but I'm drawing a blank.


I dunno - it was Hiscocks' idea, not mine. It would give the boat a higher polar moment of inertia so it would tend to hobby horse more I'd think. I'd also think the rolling & pitching would tend to have a somewhat slower interval but carry on longer than a boat with centralized weight.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

SloopJonB said:


> I dunno - it was Hiscocks' idea, not mine. It would give the boat a higher polar moment of inertia so it would tend to hobby horse more I'd think. I'd also think the rolling & pitching would tend to have a somewhat slower interval but carry on longer than a boat with centralized weight.


SJB, you're on the right track.. factor in increased buoyancy as the ends go down (which varies by hull shape of course) damping out the "slower interval" rolling & pitching and you have the reason why it works.

With no keel to speak of below and no sails aloft, you'll find many old box-shaped powerboats and barges have widely distributed ballast to stop them rolling like pigs.. but it's a bit of a black art working out the right location to spread it.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Hartley18 said:


> but it's a bit of a black art working out the right location to spread it.


Sounds like most aspects of boat design.  In all the books I have read on boat design there always seems to be a disclaimer of some sort after an arcane formula, to the effect that "this is only an approximation" or that a mast needs Lead between "12% and 20%, depending" or something similar.

Methinks that's why great boat designers are so rare.


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## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

One thing is a given, the memory and mystery of Ferro boats permeating this thread endures more than the boats themselves. It's to bad we couldn't build a boat from strings of nonsense and layers of hot air.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

sea_hunter said:


> One thing is a given, the memory and mystery of Ferro boats permeating this thread endures more than the boats themselves. It's to bad we couldn't build a boat from strings of nonsense and layers of hot air.


Can I presume from your comment that you have a lot of personal experience with them?


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## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

SloopJonB:909852 said:


> sea_hunter said:
> 
> 
> > One thing is a given, the memory and mystery of Ferro boats permeating this thread endures more than the boats themselves. It's to bad we couldn't build a boat from strings of nonsense and layers of hot air.
> ...


You can presume anything you like; I know and have enough experience to recognize a colossal waste of time and space when I see it , yes.


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## Agri (Dec 5, 2011)

It does however have a certain charm to it.


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## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

Agri said:


> It does however have a certain charm to it.


Heh, heh there's a concrete story that goes with it too.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Agri said:


> It does however have a certain charm to it.


Funny.. that's the kids play-house isn't it?? :laugher


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## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

So it turns out this boat was built in the late 50's on some backwater on the Connecticut River by an over anal pot smoker who sometimes followed the mixing directions and sometimes not. After completion of the hull and furniture with no rigging or engine, the boat was on a mooring ball somewhere near Chester when hurricane Esther hit New England in 1961. The boat broke her moorings in the resulting flood, capsized on a sandbar about 10 miles south and sank. She stayed there for about 5 years, when an intrepid salvager decided he was going to resurrect her. So in the late 60's she was filled with Styrofoam, airbags, pumped out, refloated and brought to Portland CT. After shoveling out all the mud and silt, she was refitted with basically new (used) everything and brought back to life. She then sailed New England Sound and adjacent waters for nearly 20 years filling her history with memories, smiles and joy to all who sailed with her. She was a year round home for her savior who was kind of a legend in the area. In the late 80's with the owners health failing and age catching up on both of them, she was hauled out at Portland and moved to a piece of property about a 1/2 mile from the river the owner bought just for the purpose and has been sitting there on the hard since. The owner passed a few years ago, his son figures it'll cost 25000+ to crush and get rid of her. But I can tell he's reticent. Here she sits, full of water, mosquitoes and god knows what, all that she was eroding away year by year, but there she still sits, the _Endurance_.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

sea_hunter said:


> So it turns out this boat was built in the late 50's on some backwater on the Connecticut River by an over anal pot smoker who sometimes followed the mixing directions and sometimes not. After completion of the hull and furniture with no rigging or engine, the boat was on a mooring ball somewhere near Chester when hurricane Esther hit New England in 1961. The boat broke her moorings in the resulting flood, capsized on a sandbar about 10 miles south and sank. She stayed there for about 5 years, when an intrepid salvager decided he was going to resurrect her. So in the late 60's she was filled with Styrofoam, airbags, pumped out, refloated and brought to Portland CT. After shoveling out all the mud and silt, she was refitted with basically new (used) everything and brought back to life. She then sailed New England Sound and adjacent waters for nearly 20 years filling her history with memories, smiles and joy to all who sailed with her. She was a year round home for her savior who was kind of a legend in the area. In the late 80's with the owners health failing and age catching up on both of them, she was hauled out at Portland and moved to a piece of property about a 1/2 mile from the river the owner bought just for the purpose and has been sitting there on the hard since. The owner passed a few years ago, his son figures it'll cost 25000+ to crush and get rid of her. But I can tell he's reticent. Here she sits, full of water, mosquitoes and god knows what, all that she was eroding away year by year, but there she still sits, the _Endurance_.


Nice story, sea_hunter.

If he bored a few holes in her to let the water out and made it generally safe inside (perhaps a pressure wash for starters), added a bit of a bowsprit and a fake mast, surely she'd make a great play house for the local school kids, dreaming of pirates and villans and adventures on the high seas... A project far cheaper than 25k that might benefit the local community.

Can't think of a better use for a ferro boat myself.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

sea_hunter said:


> an intrepid salvager decided he was going to resurrect her. So in the late 60's she was filled with Styrofoam, airbags, pumped out, refloated and brought to Portland CT. After shoveling out all the mud and silt, she was refitted with basically new (used) everything and brought back to life. She then sailed New England Sound and adjacent waters for nearly 20 years filling her history with memories, smiles and joy to all who sailed with her. She was a year round home for her savior who was kind of a legend in the area.


Sounds like a lot more than "A colossal waste of space".


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## Agri (Dec 5, 2011)

That story sounds like a checkmark in the pro ferro column to me.


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## Woodvet (May 5, 2012)

I know this design. They are a wide beamed double ender with plenty of room, good stability. They tend to pitch a bit more and chafe at the dock but are great on the hook. This one has not followed the design which is basically modified from an Atkins for production for Samson and likely built by them or a contractor that spun off. 
It was modified more with that pilot house which is likely for the inside passage or Northern colder climates. 
These are not entirely cement. They are steel in the primary structure of the hull, roughed in cement and faired with epoxy. Her deck is wood bolted through the clamp by 3/8 galvanized but sometimes up graded to stainless. If galvanized check for replacement it's due. 
The prop angle was placed too shallow and often cavitates, her hull speed under engine might reach 5 knots without playing with her trim. The rig was designed to be a gaff cutter. Her water tanks are likely glassed into the hull but an inspection of the diesel is due for replacement. 
I have seen the deck soft near the chain plates from fresh water rot. 
Most people are afraid of a ferro cement hull but like anything prone to problems (like steel, wood or plastic hulls) it takes research. One person mentioned the rust factor but that was half cocked. If imbeded steel has been exposed to galvanic corrosion from not changing out zincs or salt and moisture intrusion it will be revealed by the need for steel to expand times it's size. It will exhibit serious cracks long before failure of the hull is reached. 
The greater concern is whether or not the builder was up to the task of founding her. Unless the paint is in horrible condition it is advisable to leave it be. To remove it is very touchy and might expose metal and involve too much time to fair out again. 
A 60 to 80 grit surface must be achieved in order for the new paint to adhere.
Disadvantages: Finding insurance. Some real crazy people in the 60s and 70's built these hulls. The insurance companies are further made nervous by the fact boat wrights have no qualification. Them and the dog trainer are the last hold outs to need certification. When it comes to inspecting a ferro cement boat it's far too easy to happen on an idiot who out of professional courtesy would OK another idiot's work. 
Re sale value though that is not a factor if the price in question is already cheap. Striking a reef or rock hard enough to breach the hull. 
Advantages: Not paying for insurance, Not spending a bunch on her because it will never increase in value. Great live aboard if not planning to travel. The hull material makes for a quiet passage and rarely if ever leaks in any salt water. They are heavy and seaworthy in heavy weather but can pitch. If you find one that is for sale you can get it cheap and sell it where you end up for the same before flying home. 
No sane person thinks nothing can happen to them on the ocean because they have a sound boat. Steel is hot and sweats like an SOB, in the tropics it can burn your feet if not painted bright white. Wood always leaks or has ambient moisture. It stretches and contracts and has rot and galvanic issues. 
Many plastic hulls have wood in them to stiffen it and without brine. There is hull blisters, delamination and bad product choices because GRP in it's self is highly technical. 
So you can't find a care free hull but a new one in most cases better advised. They all have a different set of problems before considering the design or what it's intended purpose. 
A ferro cement can be a good choice just don't hit a solid object because they sink faster than other materials so you need to consider that but most who have them have bragging rights to a bargain. My favorite is wood and bronze but while cold mold is not mentioned, I wouldn't scoff at it either.


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## paulatcrag (May 30, 2013)

*tom timmerman*

Hello all I realize this is a old post but on a long shot I was hoping for more info on tom timmerman. I have a 34' aluminum cutter hull designed by him and built by trinity marine in west van I belive. Any information wpund be appreciated. Sloopjonb? I met the man once when I first bought the boat but now want to sell it and was hoping to pass along as much information as possible. Thanks in advance. Paul


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: tom timmerman*



paulatcrag said:


> Hello all I realize this is a old post but on a long shot I was hoping for more info on tom timmerman. I have a 34' aluminum cutter hull designed by him and built by trinity marine in west van I belive. Any information wpund be appreciated. Sloopjonb? I met the man once when I first bought the boat but now want to sell it and was hoping to pass along as much information as possible. Thanks in advance. Paul


I'm afraid I can't help - I only know about him as a local designer back in the day. He did some designs for Samson as well as at least one aluminium design other than yours - a 26' I think. I tried to find him a few years ago to ask a couple of questions but to no avail.

P.S. IIRC your boat was built in Squamish, not West Van.


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## paulatcrag (May 30, 2013)

I met him in the 90s and he was at least 80 something then. He was living in Abbottsfod or Mission I cant quite remember. Thanks for that and sorry about the double post I am new here. Paul


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

That boat has been around here for a long time. If there was anything major wrong with her, it would have shown long before now. How much use do you have to get out of her, at that price, to get your moneys worth out of her? You can't go wrong. She even has a Yanmar not the useless Volvo, common back in those days . Go for it, and enjoy. After a few months, she will owe you nothing. You will have got more than your moneys worth out of her. The gear is worth far more than the asking price.


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## rickrick (Feb 2, 2014)

hi l just bay a 53fot ferrocement sailingbaut for fun l chance for a car and its emty inside and have no on the deck no rigg nothing only a siselmotor and the hull. l gone fix it up and get arounf the world and try living on it for long time. model is samson c lord and was build in usa 1981 and come over to europe and sweden where it is right now. Ll dont nothing about this bout but l gone have fun all the way good luck and follow you hart thats the point if you not have cash just relax it coming and in meantime just singing a blues it helps and take you to a good level. When l learn to uploud photos then you can follow my bout from scratch l am sorry my english l am swedish


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Your English is a lot better than my Swedish. 

The C-Lord is an enormous boat - you have a lot of work ahead of you.

It was one of the best looking of the Samson designs. You probably get enough wind up there to move it well.


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## rickrick (Feb 2, 2014)

yes but l am worry about the deck the erly owner put ferrocement on deck and its not painting yet. l like to take he up to drydock and fix underwaterline put new cement and paiting all outside. then fix the deck paiting whit some good thing and hope that is not get wet inside and start roten or get this green things hope you can follow my thinking. Then l am searching for 2 rigg in aluminium soo its gone be ketschrigg here we say mast that hold the sail. Yes alot of work but l am very intresst l have a flying tramp that been to caribien l bay from a retired capten in special sealattack diver in the navy here in sweden he go him self menny time and diving in caribien . That bout is very special and he put 2000kg more on the bout so it be steddy in sea . But l just try to get some info about this samson c lord its a mercedes 101 inside and then is emty soo l have she in the marina in the middle of the city soo its close to everything and it gone be a livingbout first l pay for electric and place whit security 300dollar for 1 year soo how can l complain. And l get it when l chance my pt-crusier 2001 to the boat and the chrysler l get it for 500 dollar soo no big deal only just like a weekend in miami in a good hotel. l am happy becourse its some space in this and l can build a nice apartment inside and when its reddy l sailing to italy and keep it down there in good temp and get some good vine cheese and girls


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

MedSailor said:


> I bought a wooden boat and knew nothing of them and suffered some consequences myself.


That sounds like an interesting story.
Would you mind starting a new thread and tell us the story?


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## rickrick (Feb 2, 2014)

ofcourse l just be a member here today and have some problem to loud some photos but l was thinking to have some line about my projekt l can put you to my contaktlist and you can add me to yours just go to my profile. l have 2 tread out fom the hull and the motor but l gone uppgrate my work all time. normaly l fixing wood sailingboat around 30fot its menny here in sweden and nobody take care this boat from 1920-1950 its pretty and its history going away. But l some time speake to the kids in school and they are intresst l little time becourse toy need alot of time and pention


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## Pakki (6 mo ago)

saillife said:


> I'm not a fan of cement boats. Biggest problem I can think of is fixing any kind of 'ding' in the hull. It's not easy to fix cement. They were big in the late 60's early 70's. I am sure there has to be a reason you don't see them much anymore.


One of the easiest hulls to fix if only a ding - epoxy glue (mixed with micro glass beads to thicken) There are quite a few of them around - especially the older ones that were built properly. If poorly built they are gone within a few years. FC hulls are a problem if water gets to the armature (steel frame) which then rusts and pops out the concrete - this can still be repaired unless too severe to be economically viable.. Other boaties don't like them because they wreck other boats in collisions or if they come adrift in a marina. Bigger holes can be repaired by professional boatyards. Main reason why they are no longer built? Technology and lighter materials. The heavier a hull is, the deeper its draught and more horsepower in motor or sails required. My 30 footer was 13 tons dry.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

Pakki said:


> One of the easiest hulls to fix if only a ding - epoxy glue (mixed with micro glass beads to thicken) There are quite a few of them around - especially the older ones that were built properly. If poorly built they are gone within a few years. FC hulls are a problem if water gets to the armature (steel frame) which then rusts and pops out the concrete - this can still be repaired unless too severe to be economically viable.. Other boaties don't like them because they wreck other boats in collisions or if they come adrift in a marina. Bigger holes can be repaired by professional boatyards. Main reason why they are no longer built? Technology and lighter materials. The heavier a hull is, the deeper its draught and more horsepower in motor or sails required. My 30 footer was 13 tons dry.


Another case of newbieitis....reviving a 10 year old thread.


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