# Developing Courage - Managing Fear



## SlyMcFly

I need to hear from women on this one.

My sweet partner and I have been sailing 3 years now including some significant coastal cruising. Now we are preparing to depart for an open ended cruise to South America and beyond on a new-to-us boat.

I always give this speech to crew members "Courage is not having no fear. If courage was no fear, courage would not be valued. Courage is doing what has to be done in spite of your fears. Not get up there and get that jib down! (or what needs doing).

I am highly encouraging to her, she's not afraid of sailing, she's not afraid of the boat tipping over, she's not afraid of being out of sight of land, and she's looking forward to the adventure. She's afraid of (1) screwing up, and (2) something happening to me.

I do all the sail handling and anchoring. She's learned to control the boat. When sailing she can dump the main without thinking, sheet in jib and main, and do a reasonable job at the helm. On our recent summer voyage she took her first extended watch on deck with me below sleeping.

Yesterday we were in the harbor with no boats around and miles of room, engine running, in about 20 knots of wind, and I had to go get the main down. Really, it was nothing to me, yes it was windy, yes some wakes came, we had plenty of room, on a nice warm day, with warm water. No, I was not wearing a life jacket nor clipped in.

Her job is to make sure the traveler is centered and locked on both sides, sheet in the main when the halyard is slacked, and keep the boat going upwind about 1 knot. Also call out any wakes so I can hold the boom.

She did fine nothing happened although she tacked a few times and completely lost track of where the wind is blowing from (she forgot to use the instruments, forgot to look at the windex, forgot to simply point the boat into the whitecaps, forgot to watch the main and keep it from filling). She's been sailing 3 years now going every weekend plus some long trips.

She's so afraid during this sail change she can barely handle herself and forgets all her training plus she simply can't take her eyes off me.

Afterward we were talking about her fears. I told her to simply do her job and let me do mine. I reminded her how the instruments work, I pointed out the whitecaps and the wind on her face.

Her idea was that she would prefer it if I'd let her get the main down. She would rather face that fear. She's tiny and can barely reach above the boom. I will let her learn to do it, that's a good idea. But if it's windy she is just not going to be able to do it. She often gets the jib down (on our boat a fractional rig the jib is quite small). She can handle going to the foredeck.

I think courage/managing your fear comes from self confidence and from training. In a stressful situation you fall back on your training. However her fear is that something will happen to me. She's frozen watching me. I'm a lifelong sailor she knows I am not afraid of getting the main down on a breezy day.

Please help me ladies.


----------



## overbored

white caps and you are not wearing a PFD? you are not helping the situation. she is not wondering how or if it will happen but when it will happen if she is worried about you, you should show her that you are taking all the safety steps you can to make it safe sail so she can focus on her job. you are not doing your job properly. practice doing it the same way you would off shore.


----------



## DayDreamer41

I tend to agree, in order to take care of her primary fear, you going overboard wear a vest and tie yourself off with a proper lanyard. Once this is done I think that you can then focus on refining her abilities, sounds like she is very close to being fully capable.


----------



## deniseO30

It's always entertaining how an alpha male uses words like "let, give, allow, preach", to set oneself Above the less able.

From another thread I quote you.
* Re: Long Island NY to Marina del Rey CA
Hey UCLA there is lots of sailboat racing and crew is always needed. Get on a team and start sailing. If you come to San Diego I will be happy to take you out and get started, I've taught 100s to sail by racing with me. I am no longer racing but we enjoy social company. Lets to sail around the Coronado islands (about 20 miles out and back, into MX waters) and then we'll see if you like sailing. *
This troubles me. I don't think racers know how to sail recreationally. To the racer's mind, everyone "fails"

This could be the cause or root of the problems you the couple are having.

Suggestions:
Drop the superior rhetoric.
Drop the fear mongering to keep her (and others) in the pecking order. 
You are the best & greatest, and why you should not be her teacher.

The boat was selected for you and her as the 2nd thought?

No mention of reefing? 
"Heave to" 
"depower"
"when in doubt let out"

Sail handling, dropping, raising, flaking, problems are easy to solve, lazy jacks, downhaul/s stack pack etc.

If the main is hard to get down something is not right. (not everyone knows "head to wind" to drop the main and will muscle it down)

Really, why does she not have more time at the helm? Because you don't "allow" it?

Someone can teach her about mechanical advantage vs muscle. She need not go to the boom if the set up is right. then after it's down and things are calm. you and her can tidy up (flake the sail)

Did you show her how to use the 2nd gear on the primary winches? and that it is not necessary to make full 360 cranks?

Encourage, (not let) her find her way with other teaching types. You slept below once.

What size boat?

how is it set up?

Do you know what single handing really means?

The boat is not ready for this extended voyage but I'm only guessing.


----------



## Sal Paradise

You asked for it, McFly


----------



## capta

I believe that you should explain to her that the better she does her job, the safer you will be up there on deck.
Of course she will want to keep an eye on you, but even an experienced helmsperson cannot do both that and steer well.
I don't think that a PFD or a harness will solve your problem. It's about her concentrating on her job so you can do yours safely.
We were once in a horrific gale in the Med and I'd waited way too long to get the genoa down, wishing to let the crew catch up on their sleep. When Dawn (5'2"/99#s) came up on deck she was a bit fearful when I asked her and David to go forward and wrestle down the big, heavy genoa. The decks were completely awash and it was very, very dark, windy and rainy.
"Why do I have to go up there and do that? Why can't I stay in the cockpit and steer?" she asked. 
"If you think you can steer as well as I and keep this boat under control, you are welcome to stay here and steer."
Mind you we were racing along on the very edge of control and it was taking all my strength to keep the boat from broaching, which might have been catastrophic in those conditions.
She looked around and without another word she went forward and the two of them got the sail down without incident.
We each do the job we are best at when we sail as a team. Sex plays not one tiny bit into it. After all, the word crew has no gender.


----------



## gamayun

Where are you located? The Women's Sailing Convention (see link below) is coming up in SoCal in February. Your wife may want to check it out. I recently offered to instruct at a similar seminar in Alameda and one woman on my boat just needed to sail under the Bay Bridge because her and her boyfriend had such a traumatic situation there, that she had developed an irrational fear of ever being able to do it. Your wife needs to develop her own confidence over the whole boat, by herself, not by you making sure she does her one job well. If she's forgetting everything in moments of stress, then she's also close to a panic response, and that's a traumatic situation just waiting to happen. If she doesn't start to manage it better or you figure out how to help her, she's not going to be any good to either of you if (when) something significant happens.

Women's Sailing Convention in California | Cruising World


----------



## RobGallagher

Yup, the problem is not her, it's you. If you can take that in, exhale and then figure out how to move forward, then there are many ways to improve your situation. If you take what others here are telling you and go on the defensive, things won't improve all that quickly, if ever.

She needs to go learn to sail from someone else. Then she needs to sail on her own (not necessarily alone, just not with you).

Some people are never as good as some others at one particular task, but excel in in different areas. Get used to it and learn to get the right people in the right positions so your 'team' can excel.

Wear your effing PFD/tether if your wife is nervous about you falling overboard.


----------



## krisscross

You need to tech her how to keep the boat under control no matter what happens to you, including dropping all sail and motoring home. You take too much risk and she knows it better than you do. She freezes because she knows she can't handle the boat by herself. And she is smart to see that. It has nothing to do with her being a woman and everything to do with being a crew without sufficient experience. Take it easy and take it slow along the way so she gets comfortable. What is the hurry?


----------



## Seagull

Personally, I think she's on the right track, she needs to learn to do it. Fear eases when a person understands completely how things work. Not only that, but both of you should be capable of single handing the boat. 

My husband has been sailing all his life, and I've been sailing (cruising, living aboard, running charters) for the last 5 years. My very first time sailing, we were headed from Newport, RI to the USVI via Bermuda. I was too green/inexperienced to be very nervous, but after that trip I had enough just enough knowledge to know my ignorance - this made me uneasy. Since then, I've endeavored to learn all things sailing and boat systems related. I find that knowledge and hands on experience makes me confident. It also gives me a more complete understanding of another persons job (my husbands) and how integral my job (whatever we're doing) is to make everything go smoothly. 

So give her the tools she needs to be confident in her abilities and the tasks at hand. If she can't reach the boom and take down the sail herself, then why SHOULDN'T she be absolutely terrified of losing you? Of making a mistake? My suggestion would be to make adjustments to the boat, so it not only fits you, but her as well.


----------



## MarkofSeaLife

Jeeezus! 13 replies and I do not agree with any, except Seagull.

You answered the question in your own first post! And its the only rational answer:

Let her go do what she asked!
Let her do the sail work for a change.

when she is up on deck she can decide if the life jacket is needed, depending on her inherent fear perception. She can then feel more comfortable with what's acceptable for you both.

All jobs on board should be shared or taken in turns. No pink, no blue jobs.

You are a team. But sometimes people need to be forced to be teamy 


Mark


----------



## Sal Paradise

I have to agree with your wife and Mark. Let her take the sail down. I don't think its an issue of courage at all - its an issue of teamwork and strategy. Stop thinking about captain courageous and start thinking husband and wife team. 

Also, you have to just shut up and give her time to learn how to do that particular job - her own way to do it, in light wind at first. Its all good - learn how. 


I have seen many women sailors, particularly racers who are uber competent and run a sailboat like clockwork with hardly a word so it is not a gender thing. Its a training and teamwork thing. In that light - you might want to get her into a sailing school to bring up her boat handling skills before you set out.

Team.


----------



## Donna_F

She should learn how to anchor. She should learn how to handle the sails. Until that happens, no, she has not learned how to control the boat. If something happens to you and it's more prudent to stay put and allow the rescuer to come to you, she needs to know how to stay in one spot and not drift. If sail handling and anchoring are not on her list of things to learn, you need to learn how to singlehand. I'm not saying she has to do it all the time, but she should learn how to do them if she's called on to do it, either to help you or in an emergency. 

I agree with much of what has been said above. When we decided to buy another boat one thing on my list was to not buy one too large for either of us to handle on our own should something happen to the other. I hope you both took that into consideration, too. 

We all screw up. Sometimes the screw up hurts physically. Sometimes it just hurts the pride. Talk about it (not yell), figure out what can be done differently the next time. Move on, but remember what you talked about. 

Part of me being prepared to sail across an ocean is mentally preparing for something to happen to my partner. If it could be guaranteed that all would be well, I'd be a happy camper. But my personal training includes figuring out ahead of time what I would and could do in different scenarios if he goes down just as I'm trying to work through different scenarios of boat trouble. It sounds grim, but it's working for me. Some of us take CPR and first aid courses throughout our lives "just in case." Why should that be different on a boat?

"Her job is..." Ugh. I'm trying hard not to read anything into that.

Finally, get over your ego and clip in if that is what will help her concentrate on learning more skills to perhaps save you both some day and definitely have a more relaxed sail. Seriously, how much will that hurt?

I give you props for coming in here and asking.


----------



## caberg

SlyMcFly said:


> She's been sailing 3 years now going every weekend plus some long trips.


Maybe that says something about your teaching abilities.

You need to take it down a notch. I can feel your intensity coming through the computer and am pretty sure based on the one post that I wouldn't want to crew for you.


----------



## capecodda

To quote the OP "She's afraid of (1) screwing up, and (2) something happening to me."

OK, simple...how do we fix both fears:

1. Screwing up: I suspect that this fear is the easy one to fix. Make it OK to screw up. I've been sailing over 30 years and hardly a day goes by on the boat where I don't do something wrong. 99% of screw ups are not life threatening. Yea, you might break a piece of equipment or put a scratch in it. You might tear a sail. So what. I found that when I was afraid of screw ups my crew was afraid of screw ups. Lead by example. Screw up then fix it and don't get upset.

2. Something Happening to You: Go the extra mile. Harness, inflatable vest, whatever. Don't be a hero, be a wimp. Then, let her do every job she wants to do on the boat. Every one. Encourage her to do jobs she is not comfortable with, and when she fails, smile, laugh and have her try again while telling a tail about how you screwed that job up first time you tried it to. Because you did but maybe it was so long ago you forgot.

Leadership is not doing things yourself, it's getting other people motivated and trained to do those things effectively. I don't know you so please don't take this personally, but I know many leaders who fail by leaving no room for failure. The only failure is not trying. It's not brain surgery or rocket science, its just sailing and it isn't that hard or even important. Make it fun.

It's of course more delicate in a relationship than employee/employer setting; however, a team is a team. Many, many years ago my then future wife and I got through some interesting weather and difficulties on a boat together working as a team. Those experiences were significant to us, and had a big impact on our decision to spend our lives together. 

I think it might be a good idea to legislate a pre-marital test where couples need to spend time together living on a sailboat. If they survive a few weeks and still like each other, we would issue marriage certificates. There would be a much lower divorce rate  

Good luck and may both of you find adventure, fun and happiness.


----------



## SlyMcFly

first of all, we are now sailing my race boat, a Pearson Flyer 30 feet. We have not yet selected our cruising boat. I feel that this is an excellent training boat for her, although it is very overpowered, with an SA/D of 22.5, tiller, and outboard. Selection of our cruising boat will be done by the both of us. I am not doing any kind of extensive mods to the current boat. We don't have lazy jacks.

We talked about this last night, she is pleased I started this thread. We came up with some ideas, such as me switching the instruments from a bank of numbers (which I prefer) to the old style analog gage with an arrow pointing where the wind is, which will help her, with my instruments this can be done by simply pushing a button. She is visual, not number oriented.

Her fear is that I will fall over and she won't be able to turn the boat and get the sails down and get me. She wants to know how I get the main down on a windy day single handed. I set the autopilot and go to it. So we discussed setting the autopilot and getting it down together. She would be more comfortable if we were both wearing life jackets. She can't really swim.

None of this was much of an issue until recently, she may have been holding it in, but we are looking at new boats and our departure is getting closer so I'm sure its on her mind.

I came her asking for suggestions so keep them coming. Although its a race boat and I'm a retired racer, she is never treated like race crew although sometimes I do yell. We have come up with a series of hand signals when anchoring that help greatly in that regard. She knows how to use the 2 speed winches. She is small, weak, and girly with fancy nails and so on I think there is no way on Earth she could get the anchor up on the current vessel (no windlass). She wears sailing gloves, she has a very good automatic life vest. We sailed this summer 3 weeks from San Diego to Santa Barbara Island and circumnavigated Catalina living about a week at anchor in Cat Harbor and had a great time.

There is a Catalina 27 2 slips down from us owned and sailed by a woman, usually sailed by women, it would be nice to try to get her on that boat for an outing without me.


----------



## zeehag

as she gains experience sh e will gain confidence.. it is only a fool who feels no nervousness when going to sea. the butterflies never go away i promise. let them be the abreojos needed to be alert and capable. 
i would not really call it fear, but all souls going to sea feel a bit uncertain as to their fate as they leave--this is a good thing. learning an d survival are spawned by this slight fear we all keep close to us. 
if something happens to you>> the more experience she gains in all areas of boat, the better equipped she will be to get your dying or injured self to help and safety safely. stuff happens--we all have a backup plan. let her make her own for this contingency. too many ladies sailing have no clue as to how to get back to safety with an ill or injured spouse or partner. practice and experience help with both these situations./ 
when you go forward, use a tether. as you both learn, you will both enjoy the lifestyle more.
happy sailing. 
oh yeah--i prefer analog also-- for time, and for wind and for much of everything--but i am old and slow to adjust.
my wind was both with a pointer and with digital numbers-- hybrid. loved it until it died on me--i think a helper uninstalled mine...my battery condition is analog..with a lovely needle pointing and colors to guide the eye for condition green yellow or red. 
would it be difficult to maintain a second set of gauges for her to use ?? install the analog next to the digital and see how tha thelps.... buena suerte!


----------



## Sal Paradise

Zee - same feeling for motorcycle trips. 


Is it possible we all missed an important point? Maybe she just needed more throttle. You said that you hit some wakes and the boat fell off the wind. Maybe she lost steerage, or lost enough that the boat would not point well. A simple throttle adjustment may be all that was needed.


----------



## Donna_F

SlyMcFly said:


> ...
> 
> None of this was much of an issue until recently, she may have been holding it in, but we are looking at new boats and our departure is getting closer so I'm sure its on her mind.
> ...


This struck me as curious. You have a departure date set but you don't yet have the boat?


----------



## zeehag

Sal Paradise said:


> Zee - same feeling for motorcycle trips.
> 
> Is it possible we all missed an important point? Maybe she just needed more throttle. You said that you hit some wakes and the boat fell off the wind. Maybe she lost steerage, or lost enough that the boat would not point well. A simple throttle adjustment may be all that was needed.


this is all part of the learning.. she will be awesome


----------



## SlyMcFly

Yes, we sail our Pearson Flyer nearly every weekend. She knew she had to throttle it up to get it back into the wind when I was dousing the main. She did fine, it was later when we were home she started talking about her fears. She asked me how to manage those fears and act in spite of them. I told her fear keeps you safe. I think the impending voyage, which we talk about constantly and dream of every day and every night is amplifying her feelings as she thinks about handling a boat much bigger and 4 times the displacement. Of course we will have lots of things like a wheel, cockpit enclosure, windlass, roller furling, engine controls not hanging off the stern, and lazy jacks that are going to multiply her (and my) muscle power.

Our plan is to sell the current boat, buy a 40 foot something in the spring, spend most of next summer outfitting plus sailing locally and plan to leave for Central/South America next fall hopefully in the Ha Ha. We are retiring in March. We've been married 3 years. We live now in a very small apartment in northern Baja and sail out of San Diego. She is a MX national, bilingual, very petite, she is very excited to go. Of course I am asking her to drop everything and sail away from friends, family and her world. She is very excited and proud to be doing that. This is nothing new, we've been planning it for 4 years, its getting close now that our boat is up for sale.

We love each other and get along fine, we talk about everything, including this thread. She has some other fears such as she highly avoids the sun and is very afraid of social situations especially with gringos even though her English is fine (she is qualified as a MX English teacher in MX high school). She did not know how to drive when I met her, I taught her to drive, now she drives all over even across the border to the marina, in an old Ford Explorer I gave her. Try doing that and stay married. I also taught her to swim in the marina pool. She is highly adaptable, a great cook, used to tight spaces, and willing to use a portipotty (on the current boat). She came up with the idea for our current boat shower (a small inflatable pool we blow up an put on the salon floor, followed by a bucket shower (we call it good clean fun). She never gets seasick. She loves to read and could sail to hell as long as a movie was playing down below. She's highly curious and wants to know how everything works.


----------



## deniseO30

Sounds like you are talking about a puppy. She can't speak for herself? Hey girl sound off!! Yeah, that bothers me, (and probably no one else.) An alpha male speaking for his lady what is wrong with that? EVERYTHING!


----------



## Donna_F

deniseO30 said:


> she can't speak for herself? Hey girl sound off!!


I think it was smart to throw the husband to the wolves first. If he returned with no blood and bruises, everything's OK. 

If Mrs. McFly is on Facebook, there is a VERY active and supportive Women Who Sail group she may be interested in.


----------



## SVAuspicious

SlyMcFly said:


> We talked about this last night, she is pleased I started this thread.


You asked for women to respond and have gotten a lot of male input. Sailors are not well behaved.

I'll be no better. *grin*

In my opinion, however you got there, you have accomplished a lot be fostering communication with your wife. That is good. She knows you have noticed and you care. That will make it easier for her to more clearly share her feelings and concerns so you can address them together.

I have one suggestion for you. Charter a boat more like what you anticipate somewhere really beautiful. Give both of you a chance to understand the differences. Wheel steering, autopilot, furling headsail, possibly furling main and certainly a sail cover. Spend a little more and get a generator. Your goals are to give your wife a solid reference point and lay a foundation for discussions about priorities.


----------



## deniseO30

Good read here 
Disappearing Women: Women Who Get Lost in Relationships -
it may not really pertain to sailing But it is a Womyn's forum Here y'all decide.

And yeah the guy's love strutting round on hersailnet ( mental pic of foghorn Leghorn)


----------



## zeehag

so, auspicious, me n denise n donna are what, chopped liver??h ah aha ha ha ha ha


----------



## gamayun

You know, part of this could be cultural in which the woman takes her cues from the man and accepts/goes along with their lead. While the OP states that she is adventurous and learning new things (kudos to her), it might also be that she implicitly trusts him when she's doing these things, but she's also just one step away from falling apart if he is not there to give her her strength/confidence/support/etc. If the OP truly wants to have an equal sailing partner, he needs to figure out how to let her take the lead and she will gain this confidence as she learns to handle the boat. This might mean that she and her family/friends/experienced others/etc., take the boat out without him so she can truly own it and not be told what to do. Courage is created by building confidence through independent thinking....


----------



## tempest

I agree with Denise, 20 knots of wind, no traffic around, want your wife to be comfortable; just heave-to, stop the boat, ease the main and lower it. everything calms down, boat stays flat, stays put, and no one has to steer. Drama is often self-inflicted. 

Under more moderate conditions, which probably isn't 20 knots of wind, you can then practice together the steps to reef while underway and switch off roles. Just practice it when the winds are 5-10 untll it becomes routine. My 2 cents fwiw


----------



## Donna_F

Sounds like there may be cultural differences that might lead to challenges with asking a general population forum for advice.


----------



## killarney_sailor

I think you have received some incredibly good advice here. This seems like one of the best threads on SN in a very long time. My wife came into sailing late in life and is also not very big (she is Chinese) but quite athletic. I have been sailing for more than 40 years. She is not someone who tends to stay in the background and defer to me. Right from the start she wanted to know how everything worked and I encouraged her in this. She is a technical person by training (PhD in engineering physics) and quickly was asking questions about the engine and other systems that I did not know the answer to so we worked things out and did research together. She can and has sailed the boat (40,000 lbs) by herself (once for several days going from Easter Island to Pitcairn) when I was out of it with staph infections on my legs and taking antibiotics and pain killers) but it is set up for it with reliable furlers for genoa and main. We also have big winches (primaries are Lewmar 65) so she brings in the rather large genoa we use without a problem. Think about this when you are looking for a big boat. Many have inadequate winches and the damn things are ridiculously expensive if you have to replace what comes on the boat. Over time we have developed job specializations. I drive the boat when we dock and she jumps off with lines. This works best because she is more agile than I am. When we anchor she does the dropping while I drive; when we lift the anchor it is the reverse since sometimes the windlass needs some help to get the anchor turned and stowed and it is heavy and I am stronger. I do the navigation and most of the weather planning just because it is easier for me (university trained in geography). She is just as comfortable going up the mast as I am. You work these things out, but it must be an equal partnership and not something you are doing with her help.


----------



## caberg

SlyMcFly said:


> .. plan to leave for Central/South America next fall hopefully in the Ha Ha. ...
> 
> She has some other fears such as she highly avoids the sun ...


That's sort of odd. It's one thing to cover up, wear a hat, use sunscreen, and seek shade when possible while sailing in tropic climates, but to actually fear and avoid the sun? That will be difficult if not impossible when living and cruising on a sailboat in the tropics -- and for many people the sunshine is partly why they go to the tropics.


----------



## Sal Paradise

Yeah....You start with simply having trouble getting the main down, and you get to...a situation far too complex and unclear to really understand via this thread. And you never know how a couple will work through all these things and there are just so many sub texts.


----------



## SlyMcFly

Well we had a long talk about this last night. She is interested in reading and replying to the thread but you have to understand as a MX woman she is very shy and unlikely to expose her actual inner thoughts and fears especially around gringos. 

Even though we have sailed for 3 years now her understanding of the boat is very minimal. She can sheet in the jib, get it up and down, and trim to the telltales, she can sheet the main and "dump" it as we have to do very often on our Pearson to keep it on it's feet. But she does these by rote without really understanding. Her true fear is handling or driving the boat, afraid she'll do it wrong, and I'll yell or she'll break something. Our Pearson is so simply there really is nothing to break. I set us up to get the main down in San Diego Bay a mile from all other boats and well off the lee shore headed up wind with the motor running and warmed up. There was nothing to hit. This was not right in the middle of the fairway with 100 other boats. She understands that. I told her the next few weekends of sailing we are going to practice a few things: (1) she has to learn to stop the boat, under sail, and (2) use the radio to talk and to call for help (with the position from the GPS). We have practiced these things many times but she doesn't remember how. Numbers, maps, angles, coordinates, machines are not her thing. Languages, literature, cooking, and art are very much her thing! 

I told her we have to practice until she can do it, over and over again. The whole conversation made her quiver and shake with fear, she hid under the blankets. I told her the alternative is she sits inside the boat while I take us to South America. She doesn't want that. I reminder her I was asking her to start by learning 2 skills, stop the boat, and call for help. Not anchor, set the spin, gybe, tack, navigate, dock, etc. Just start with 2 things, stop the boat, and call for help. She agreed she can learn that. Later we will add start the motor, engage autopilot, and get the jib down.

As to the sun, she thinks it gives her brown spots. She covers everything - hat, long sleeves, long pants, sun screen sun screen sun screen. On shore she carries an umbrella. I want her to wear one of those face masks fishermen use (after all its just us on the boat far offshore who cares). Its a real problem I hope fades as we get away and she gets tan and no one cares, being brown is a real issue for classy professional MX women. I understand and we do everything possible for shade.


----------



## tempest

Sly, just a friendly suggestion. If you want to help your wife manage her fears, the best thing you can do is stop "yelling" at her. She really doesn't "have" to do anything. She will decide, in time, what she can do and wants to do. I'm guessing that, that desire will increase when the fear of recrimination subsides. 

I would hold off on the "call the coast guard" stuff for the moment. While necessary, it doesn't inspire confidence at this stage of learning. If you tell her she has to learn it now, quite possibly, she hears that you will fall overboard and she'll be onboard by herself having to rescue both of you. Just write out the instructions on a card and post it near the radio (Boat US, has a sticker for this) Save the lessons for a time when they'll be better received. And don't fall off the boat ;-) 

What's the hurry? It sounds like you have a "schedule" that you're driving to. What happens if you toss the schedule, take the pressure off, and go when the "both" of you are ready. In the meantime, sailing is supposed to be "fun". Put the "fun" back in to it. 

Good Luck


----------



## SlyMcFly

She herself came up with the idea of the card by the radio. I just want her to learn to turn it on and talk to me on my handheld. I explained we can't make practice mayday calls.

As to schedule I'm too old to be sitting around much longer. I turn 60 next year. My window is closing. I'll be retired from years of Government service in 5 months. She'll be leaving her MX government job, she's much younger. A MX woman does not grow up in an environment like most Sailnet readers are used to. She has been told her entire life she's not good enough, not pretty enough, not smart enough, not worthy, so don't even try. We've overcome a lot of that but she is HIGHLY sensitive to criticism or yelling.

We also watched videos of the Pacific Puddle Jump last night, she's not afraid of that at all. Crossing the Pacific, 30 days at sea doesn't really phase her. As long as we have a bigger boat and more shade. In fact she's talking about why don't we just take our Pearson? (WAY to small and light).


----------



## midwesterner

capta said:


> .
> I don't think that a PFD or a harness will solve your problem. It's about her concentrating on her job so you can do yours safely.


It absolutely would! She's so afraid of her husband falling over board and whether or not she will be able to perform a solo MOB procedure or be responsible for losing her husband at sea.

He asked for the women's perspective. He's acting like a bone headed man: "It's ok Honey, it'll be alright, I'm not going to fall overboard. I promise" Those are words worthy of being etched on a man's tombstone.

I imagine the women saying, "Just put on the damn PFD and clip on a tether so I don't have to worry about losing you."


----------



## Donna_F

I'm afraid I don't quite know anymore how best to respond. I see issues with both of your approaches to sailing.

And this is an odd statement:

"Our Pearson is so simply there really is nothing to break. "


----------



## killarney_sailor

Fear of sun in Mexican women seems not unlike what exists in China - home of the facekini.










I think it is the idea that having darker skin (including a tan) is the sign of a peasant working in the fields. Modern urban women do not want to look like this - it is a way to show socio-economic status in a society that has changed enormously in only a generation or so.


----------



## zeehag

good ponies learn one trick at a time. try that--too much input freaks out even einstein. 
works for cats as well. and kids. 
cover is important-- even morenas use umbrellas in hot sun, as shade is hard to find until deeper into tropics, where all cities and small towns have overhangs over sidewalks, which are for restaurant use--folks walk in streets with brollies .
make a bimini for sailing. it is important. 
sun does make brown spots, more than freckles, appear. so does age. she may not be imagining that, so give her a break. 
shade is also good for you.


----------



## Donna_F

I understand perfectly the sun thing.


----------



## gamayun

Donna_F said:


> I'm afraid I don't quite know anymore how best to respond. I see issues with both of your approaches to sailing


Yep, both seem to be locked into their own traditional customs and societal mores. She probably needs to go through a sailing class or find someone who can loan her a small sailing dinghy.

Does she even understand the points of sail?

He seems to be pushing boundaries because he's 60 and retired and wants to go now.

This might be more than just a fear issue....


----------



## SlyMcFly

OK here's what we are going to try thank you everyone

(1) We already have bimini and sun shade and she's very careful with sun exposure and I take it serious and never tease her about it in fact I remind her to put the sunscreen.

(2) I'll wear my harness/lifejacket and tether when getting the main down and I'll let her do it on days not so windy (as she already drops the main sometimes.) I'll continue letting her down the jib, and we will both wear life jackets and harness/tether even on nice days as training and to get used to it for the day we'll need them.

(3) We'll talk to each other on the VHF from time to time so she gets used to it

(4) Continuing with the hand signals, I'll try REALLY hard to never yell or criticize.

(5) I'm going to teach her to stop the boat under sail and heave to, she can already sail a basic course once I have set things up. Take baby steps, I'd like her to learn to sail a circle and figure 8 but we'll get to that. Our boat sails really well without a jib and main only makes that much easier.

(6) The boarding ladder is stored away down below and if I got it on deck at least she could hang it if we needed it.

(7) I'll talk to my friend with a Catalina 36 and see if we can get out someday on a bigger boat with a wheel and inboard diesel

(8) She used to be really afraid of the dinghy and after this summer spending 3 weeks in it she's over that fear so I'm hoping some of this fades with use, her main fear is the upcoming voyage, not me getting the main down on the Pearson in 20 knots.

(9) I'll see if she'll go sailing with the women-owned and crewed Catalina 27, 2 slips down from us.

I'll continue listening to her and trying to understand and help. She sees me a big strong man, confident, nearly my whole live on the water with no fear and highly competent, yet she has heard some sea stories about nights and big storms during races and she wants to understand how I put my fear behind me when I have to. It's hard to explain what being a captain in a race with a bunch of guys who depend on you with their lives means and how a man responds to that. 

I've seen deep courage in this woman and I have all the confidence in the world in her even if she doesn't have that for herself, yet. I can see inside her is a core of strength and power, and despite years of people telling her she can't do it, she put herself through college and became a teacher. And yet she's willing to leave that for me. Deep down, really deep down, she knows she's better than what they all said and deserves better and now she has it. Those of us who have cruised have heard this, none of her coworkers believe she's actually going to leave, but I know better, she's already filed her papers to leave work, as have I.

Our fifth date 3 years ago was sailing from Ensenada around the Islas de los Todos Santos 15 miles out and back - her FIRST time on a boat and she did great and we've never looked back.


----------



## OldEagle

You started this thread by asking about how to manage fear. Forty three posts later, you've gotten cultural advice, marital counseling, some sailing advice, invitations to self-criticism, psychological assessments, and some advice about fear. Some of it has been pretty good. I'll just stick to fear.

Fear is not "rational"--it's primal. It may or may not be rationally related to the circumstances at hand. I've experienced, and directly observed in others, both absence of fear in overtly hazardous (immediately life-threatening) situations, and severe fear in situations that were clearly (and known to be) not particularly dangerous. You can't reason your way, or her way, in or out of it.

So, first question--who wants to manage your wife's fear? You obviously want her to manage it but that is not enough. Does she want to manage fear or does she really want simply to not be afraid? There is a big difference. I wouldn't assume that she really wants to manage her fear just because she says so. You need to look at what she does, not what she says. If what she wants is to avoid fear, not manage it, that's what she'll try to do, and you cannot successfully force the issue. She, herself, needs to want to manage it if she is to succeed at managing it. 

Second question, if she wants to manage fear, how does she do it? You already know part of the answer, because you included it in your first post: "In a stressful situation you fall back on your training." That's one half. The other piece is desensitization, or graduated habituation--starting with relevant situations that produce small, manageable amounts of anxiety, mastering those, then gradually working up in bite-sized pieces. And as for training--it's not just training--it's actually drill, i.e., repetition, to the level that behavior becomes automatic or reflexive. That way, when the fear-inducing stimulus occurs, the response doesn't require much (or any) analysis or judgment--just a "go"--and in the flow, enough calm usually comes that perception and judgment can kick back in


----------



## Wilmslow

I can understand where your wife is coming from, I sail with my husband and i do most of the deck work. Not because I don’t or can’t do the helming or engine, but because I just like it. Although I do draw the line at hauling up the anchor and 30 meters of chain 3 times in 45 mins because he’s not happy about the way we are lying.


----------



## hpeer

There is a very good reason GOOD marriage counselors make good money. It’s damn hard work, takes a tremendous amount of skill and emotional fortitude and sucks.


----------



## Luisa Hilburn

Fortunately, the habit of courage can be learned as any other habit is learned through repetition.
We must continually face and overcome our fears to build the kind of courage that will allow us to face the inevitable "ups and downs of life" without fear.
The starting point for overcoming your apprehensions and developing your courage is to examine the factors that predispose you to be afraid. The root of most fears is conditioning in childhood, most often associated with destructive criticism.
This leads us to develop two major types of fears. These are the fear of failure, which leads us to think:
******"I can not, I can not, I can not," and the fear of rejection, which leads us to think:
******"I must, I must, I must. "
Your fears can paralyze you, prevent you from taking constructive steps in the direction of our dreams and goals.


----------



## SanderO

Not every person can learn to sail... run a boat and some don't really want to... but they are fine with being aboard and traveling by sail.

If you have tons of experience and a boat... you need to sail it single handed with no help whatsoever. You should never NEED crew to operate your boat. PERIOD.

If your wife/partner wants to help she will learn and be motivated to learn. She may not be physically capable of doing everything that needs to be done on your boat... but she can do some things and that is VALUABLE help.

My wife is a land lubber, doesn't even drive a car... and has no aptitude with mechanics. She doesn't trim... doesn't want to learn.... doesn't care. When we anchor her concern is that I do it correctly and we don't drag or swing into another boat. She can watch and alert me to "something" I need to see in order to deal with it. I single hand and welcome the help she provides.

She cooks, cleans, know how to "organize things", takes the sail down, deal with sail cover etc.,picks up the mooring... and tells me when she is uncomfortable... "make this boat stop tipping so much!" She used to get seasick all the time... now she never does. She is wonderful company and if she is not happy and comfortable aboard... neither am I. I have sailed enough that I don't NEED to sail... and only sail ... venture out if there a lovely weather or we have to go some place... like get home.

She's a grand mother and does not want to sail off leaving her grand kids... who are more important to her than cruising. She enjoys the boat... being aboard... being away from work... 

Any guy who expects or wants or worse... needs their wife to help them operate a boat.... shouldn't have a boat or a wife.


----------



## outbound

You can fix or replace a boat. Doing that with a spouse tends to be way more traumatic and expensive.

There’s another thread about tourism on this site. My wife likes that aspect. I get a pure simple joy from the act of sailing. She doesn’t. She done enough ocean passages to be a OCC member (1500 mile uninterrupted open ocean passage). She’s been in squalls, groundings, t storms and has done 10,000 miles of coastal. But she still doesn’t know how to sail. I think she does as she can hand, reef, strike and raise. She can read a chart, understand a screen, monitor the AIS and radar. But according to her she doesn’t know how to sail.

Therefore, I single the boat as we go island to island or harbor to harbor. I fix the boat. She helps with maintenance but only as a second pair of hands. However I need her to operate the the boat. I need her to take the helm if something goes wrong. I need her if I need a head break or time down below. I need her to dock and handle lines. I need her on the VHF as I’m running the boat as we approach a fuel dock or slip. . I need her to keep sane and happy. I know a fair number of men alone on their boats. Some are quite large-over 50’. I wouldn’t like that life. I’m happy with my wife. More importantly she’s happy with me. I would be most unhappy without my wife. I would be unhappy without my boat.
I still think I should have a wife (and so does she). I still think I’m a good captain and shepherd for my boat and should have her as well. 
Respectfully disagree with this S. He’s written some very thoughtful and excellent posts but on this think he’s plain wrong. There’s nothing wrong with being human. Needing to sleep so needing another at the helm, needing to take care of the other biologically obligate behaviors. Needing companionship and love. Needing help from another.


----------



## SanderO

outbound said:


> ....
> Respectfully disagree with this S. He's written some very thoughtful and excellent posts but on this think he's plain wrong. There's nothing wrong with being human. Needing to sleep so needing another at the helm, needing to take care of the other biologically obligate behaviors. Needing companionship and love. Needing help from another.


I am not sure what you are disagreeing with me about here. Love and companionship are certainly valued and should be cherished... actually in all things we do in life... kinda.

You shouldn't need a companion to drive your car somewhere.... And analogously your should need a companion to take your boat somewhere. Obviously big complicated boats can exceed the capability of one person. And we see that many who cruise seek a big comfortable fast boat and the line where it is too big to single hand is clearly fuzzy... as are the condition under which one can single hand.

If you decide you need a big complex boat then it's likely you need crew to operate it. Then the discussion is what is short handed sailing??? Many sail as couples and for all practical purposes... they are mostly single handed with a occasional assist as Out mentions from a wife, or crew. And these occasional assists make the difference between sailing or not.

I won't even get into the emotional needs that companionship offers.

++++

Back OT, anything which takes you out of a comfort zone requires confidence and perhaps courage. Wiki says:

Courage (also called bravery or valour) is the choice and willingness to confront agony, pain, danger, uncertainty, or intimidation. Physical courage is bravery in the face of physical pain, hardship, death or threat of death, while moral courage is the ability to act rightly in the face of popular opposition, shame, scandal, discouragement, or personal loss.

Sailing may require courage... but it usually does not. It does require competence and confidence in your skills.


----------



## mbianka

Luisa Hilburn said:


> Fortunately, the habit of courage can be learned as any other habit is learned through repetition.
> We must continually face and overcome our fears to build the kind of courage that will allow us to face the inevitable "ups and downs of life" without fear.
> The starting point for overcoming your apprehensions and developing your courage is to examine the factors that predispose you to be afraid. The root of most fears is conditioning in childhood, most often associated with destructive criticism.
> This leads us to develop two major types of fears. These are the fear of failure, which leads us to think:
> ******"I can not, I can not, I can not," and the fear of rejection, which leads us to think:
> ******"I must, I must, I must. "
> Your fears can paralyze you, prevent you from taking constructive steps in the direction of our dreams and goals.


Indeed fear is part of sailing. When you get right down to it it is part of life. It can creep up on you when you least expect it. I know it has on me. Exhibit A: https://biankablog.blogspot.com/2011/03/lesson-learned-fear-and-panic-in-east.html
Though when it creeps up it I find it is best to do a quick analysis of the situation and run through the possibilities of what is going wrong. Often it is not as bad as you first "feared" and the solution is simple. I think Hunter Thompson said it best:

*"I understand that fear is my friend, but not always. Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed."-Hunter S.Thompson

*


----------



## outbound

Anxiety has been defined as the anticipation of fear. Anxiety is total counterproductive. I think anxiety not fear is what holds people back from much of the joys of sailing.
I went halvies on several boats with another doc. It made sense as with our call schedules the boat sat otherwise and of course expenses were halved as well. He loved sailing in weather. I thought he was nuts. However, when neither of us were on all off we go together. Usually a fresh breeze or strong breeze but occasionally a gale. I got use to it and actually started to enjoy the power and majesty of an angry ocean. Never sort it out like him but did lose the anxiety associated with weather within reason. 
My (at the time) 10 year old and I were out cruising for the weekend. We needed to get back by Monday for school and work. We got caught out in a constant 30 kts. Needing to free a line gave her the helm. Got back as quick as I could and found her smiling. Surfing the boat with great skill and control. Anticipating the 10-12’ ers better than most helmsmen I know. Giggling time to time as the spray hit her. She had lots of prior experience helming with me by her side but this was fairly new. She knew not to broach or gybe. Thing is she had no preconceived ideas so no anxiety. She had the skills from prior experience and was able to apply them flawlessly. I left left her at helm with instructions to turn it over to me when she wanted and stayed by her side. When she had to pee I got the helm again.


----------



## SanderO

Many people, especially children don't understand their own limitations. This may get them into trouble. Prudence may be knowing that you don't know and need to protect yourself from your ignorance and short comings. Maybe


----------



## outbound

That’s why they come with parents most of the time.😁


----------



## deniseO30

Going to toss a log on the fire here since it's been burning... what? three years?

This really isn't about the women being afraid it's about the men being afraid to leave the helm! Face it guys you don't wanna give it up!! (This is meant to be humorous!  if you haven't figured that out so don't get all crazy on me)


----------

