# Caribbean, What works and doesn't



## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

We are in our 5th year of cruising on Moondance (Catalina 445) in the Caribbean. I thought I would update the readers on what works, lesson learn and what we have seen in this international community. 
The first thing I want to chat about is weather. It dictates everything; anchoring, where to anchor, dockage, travel days, non- travel days, sailing/ motor-sailing, good days and bad days. We get weather twice a day from a variety of sources, SSB (Chris Parker, Waterway Net, NOAA grid files), email from Chris Parker, computer apps, Predict Wind and WindGru. Best app by far is Predict Wind. For us, wave height and spacing is our major go/no-go decision along with major fronts. We started at less than 3', 6 secs, now 8' is our max comfort. We have sailed in 10'; not much fun. Wind speed can be a factor because it drives wave heights, especially steepness of the face. We learned to read clouds and east coast thunderstorms. It is an art form. Down in the islands, wind speed and direction can vary depending on the mountains in some countries like Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico. Chris Parker has a good book on this. Remember there are only 3 kinds of wind; on the bow, to little or too much. 
Equipment:
Rock Stars - Honda generator, Spectra Watermaker Cape Horn Extreme (12 volts), Solar panels, Ronca with 3/8 G4 chain, Icom 802 with modem, Solar lights.,12Vdc Bora Fans in all the rooms, Raymarine Lighthhouse chartplotter with radar, anchor washdown system for the ICW and Fridgeboat keel cooler freezer. Also custom Mack Sails (main, jib and Code0). 
Good Boys - Lifeline AGM batteries, battery monitor system, LED anchor light. 
Bad boys - Rule pumps and float switches by far my biggest issues. Underwater light. 
What I have seen from the sailing community. 
It is a very close community. All of society is represented here, as well as most of the social issues that one sees on land base community. I will say the "$5,000 boat on a $500 budget are by far the most needy. The Caribbean (south of Turks and Caicos) one needs a good solid boat that has good rigging and sails. The Europeans rock this. The winds blows constantly here over 20 kts, and wave heights are always at least 5 feet. To make matters worse one is always beating into the wind base on direction of travel and weather patterns. I have seen more rigging failures than I can count, plus tons of torn sails.. I get my rigging and sails check every year. They really do take a beating down here. I have not sail without a reef in the main in over a 1.5 years. 
What I don't like that I have seen. International rules not followed; night light system not use/don't have. This is especially true for anchor lights. Rules of the road/right of way. Anchoring etiquette or the lack thereof. French are the worst. Anchoring to close, cross anchoring, not setting the anchor (not knowing how to anchor at all), not knowing how to pick up a mooring ball. It is definitely my favorite entertainment in an anchorage. The credit card captains (charter boats) are by far the worst and I try to avoid them at all cost. Large wakes in anchorage by dinghies and ferries. 
Spare parts - Number one rock star by far is my hardware of nuts, bolts, washers, cotter pins collection in 3 fishing bins. All SS and from Fastenal hardware (https://www.fastenal.com). Second is 18Vdc cordless multifunction drill/LED light. Electrical supplies to include complete connectors, crimpers, multimeter and spare wires. I have 4 tools boxes; 2 with hand tools , electrical and plumbing spares. I have 6 small containers and 2 large containers with spare parts for most things on this boat. I am in the boxes daily. 
I could write a book and might one day if this journey ever ends. 
Fair Winds :2 boat:
Melissa
Currently in Bequia , Grenadines St Vincent.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Nice critique but, does not necessarily apply only to the Caribbean. Only thing I would change is Caframo 747 fans in each cabin and add my Thoosa 9000 Electric Propulsion system.


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

On the subject of Navigation : We carry 3 different chart topography's on Moondance; Navioncs on the Raymarine ( can put most any chart programs now on Lighthouse 2 or 3), IPad with Aqua Map, Garmin BlueCharts and Navionics and paper charts. I am old fashion, I carry paper charts. I know crazy. With 3 different topography charts when coming into a place I figure out which one is best and accurate for the application at hand. Almost never are they the same in any one anchorage. Eye Balls and Depth gauge readings rule mostly for us when figuring out what charts are accurate. 

Melissa


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I appreciate Melissa Renee's write up... some good real world information there. I do find it hard to believe that they never get wind behind the beam and can sail with a full hoist main. 5 years of beating! WOW.. My experience down there was the winds were ENE or there abouts so sailing south from Antigua to Trinidad was a beam between and in the lee of the islands.

Anchoring by experience sailors is a complete different thing than the pay to play community. Yea the French are a trip on the water... but they cook good ;-)


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

Lets talk about dinghies especially dinghy davits system. Big strong dinghy davits systems rule down here in the Caribbean. By strong I mean big towers like from Atlantic Towers in Florida or other custom heavy duty SS tubing and transom reinforcement systems that can cost over 10K. 6-10K in the Caribbean. 

The small Kato, Garhauer and other cheaper systems do not. Dinghies weigh on average over 100 lbs for a good dink. Engines weigh another 80-100 lbs. Boats move a lot while sailing and sailing in open water E=MC square comes to mind. Two hundred pounds of dinghy moving on your stern will break the small systems. This plus the push pulpit seats, and other accessories on the transom puts a lot of weight back there. Even just raising your dinghy at night still puts a lot of stress on the system. We broke our system twice already. Once my bad for carry it on the transom in big seas vs hauled out on the fore-peak and one not our fault. The welders in Grenada have a 6 month minimum wait list for fixing broken transoms systems or building a heavy duty system. 

Dinks - We have seen all kinds. It is your car. Like cars back home everyone has one that suits their budget and needs. What we find is important is a dry ride, dry floor and plane ability. Your motor needs to be reliable and be able to push your dinghy with a full load in 15-20 knots of wind and moderate chop. Otherwise you rely on your neighbor to get you to shore. Need to know how to rebuild your carburetor and service the engine. Otherwise very $$$ to get someone to fix it. 

Lock it, alarm it or lose it. It is not just the islanders that want your dink it is also other cruisers. There is talk now in the anchorages that cruisers might be more responsible for theft vs the islanders. Number one reason Bolt cutters. Very hard to come by in the islands from what I am told. Most cruisers have some form of cutting the rigging down in case of demasting (BTW 3 this week alone here, bad wx and seas this season). My vote is still pending on this discussion. 

Fair winds
Melissa


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

You're in your 5th year down here and you still find value in paying Chris Parker for weather information? With everything available online and with 5 years of experience, I find that a bit odd.


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

SanderO said:


> I appreciate Melissa Renee's write up... some good real world information there. I do find it hard to believe that they never get wind behind the beam and can sail with a full hoist main. 5 years of beating! WOW.. My experience down there was the winds were ENE or there abouts so sailing south from Antigua to Trinidad was a beam between and in the lee of the islands.
> 
> Anchoring by experience sailors is a complete different thing than the pay to play community. Yea the French are a trip on the water... but they cook good ;-)


It is the East direction that kills you. ENE winds are good for heading south but once in Grenada heading NE for the season until Guadalupe not so good during the winter ENE winds. The winds switch around late April early May heading back south to ESE winds when heading back to Grenada or Trinidad for hurricane season. When one adds the 18 degrees of magnetic variation to the wind forecast it can get interesting very fast here plus fighting the Equatorial current and tidal current between the islands. :cut_out_animated_em
Melissa


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Davits are not necessary if you can tow. I've towed for 33 yrs except in ocean where the dink is stowed. Motor is on the rail. I found a 6hp was fine, now with a RIB I am at 8hp. If you go fast in an anchorage you kick up a wake and that's not something you want to do.


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

capta said:


> You're in your 5th year down here and you still find value in paying Chris Parker for weather information? With everything available online and with 5 years of experience, I find that a bit odd.


Yes I do.Talking to a real human being is invaluable. I get more out of him that the other wx apps don't give me, like weather routing, island weather patterns especially around DR and PR, current strength, wave patterns (confuses seas come to mind). Mona passage, Anegada passage (OhMYGoda) routings (like Gulf Stream crossing), daily rain patterns for example. When I see conflicting reports I can ask a question which happens a lot.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I've given your post a lot of thought because I didn't want the reply to be snarky.
It seems to me your problem is in an overload of information, at least in the winter. We use one source, Passage Weather, and generally for wind only. It is fairly accurate for 3 days and becomes less so as the time goes on, but with 24/7 internet, that is no longer a problem. Personally, I don't waste my time with rain or cloud forecasts, as we are in the islands and there's no amount of forecasting that will accurately predict the squalls, and I've got a good set of foulies if I can't miss one.
But you can't take what you see on the screen at face value. Interpolation is the key. A light blue 10-15 from the east day is not going to be that if you are sailing along. Your forward speed will affect both the apparent wind speed and direction. That will turn your lovely 10-15 on the beam into possibly 18 to 22 somewhat forward of the beam, especially if you have a boat that will foot along at 7 to 8 knots. So, *ALWAYS* add around five knots or a bit more to the forecast. Then you must consider the lees and gusts created behind the islands and you could easily find yourself rail under in over 40 knots that came screaming down some valley. This is why we often choose to go windward side of some of the islands, turning a Deux Pitons to Bequia into a daylight run, for instance. 
There are a goodly number of anchorages in the eastern Caribbean where the conditions inside give little indication of what you'll get out there. Some, like Admiralty Bay, will exaggerate the wind and others will do the opposite, but a quick look at how fast the clouds are moving over the hills surrounding the anchorage will give you an excellent idea of what wind direction and speed to expect out there. You can't get that from a forecaster either.
Now waves. The Caribbean isn't like sailing the Pacific. You can literally do half your sail in 100 feet of water and the other half in thousands. Water depth, current and the proximity to land do more to affect the waves in the EC than the thousands of miles of tradewinds that blew them there. The shape of the waves will show you the direction of the current a lot more accurately than any forecast.
When we leave Canouan for Bequia, as we approach the north end of the island the winds can easily rise to 25-30 knots as they curve around the end of the island and the seas to 6 meters or so. I've known folks to turn around and wait for the next day. And the next, etc. But it's a short (½ hour to an hour) local phenomenon that is easily motorsailed through and very common on many of the islands, both on the north and south ends. 
My point being, you can sail through waves from 3-5 feet and waves of 5 meters plus on the 16 nm trip from Canouan to West Cay Bequia, and no amount of internet or personal talk will have any worthwhile contributions on these sorts of local weather situations.
Anyone preparing to cross the Mona Passage should have been told a dozen times or more that they're gonna get their a$$ kicked. You can wait months for a 'weather window', but you will still probably get your a$$ kicked.
Same with the Anegada Passage from Virgin Gorda to St Maarten; 80 miles of hell, except in the dead of summer, then it's a fun run from Stt to Cheeseburger in Paradise on St Barth's and back for lunch in a 38-foot cigarette.
Relax and enjoy. The Windwards and Leewards are some of the easiest and most pleasant places to sail on this planet. There are good days and tough days, but rarely, IMO, bad days.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Nice opening post.
Would give thumbs down to the Honda and a big up to Northern Lights.
Have learned to approach the next island a mile or three up wind from rhumline and fall off for the last 3-5 miles of the approach. That way you have wind and waves behind the beam. 
Have learned once you get past St. Bart’s it’s a totally different world. I haven’t even seen the first reef let alone a full main. Using only the solent /reefed main with at least two pumps on the backstay.
The $250/year for Cris is worth it. Other than that use passage weather, local radio station if I understand the language and that’s it.
C/w leewards it isn’t about the sailing. You pick the best window. Prepare like you’re going on passage as otherwise things go flying and go. In the lee of the islands it goes from dense wind shadow or mid twenties so not worth doing anything but main and varying amount of solent or motoring. 
However the islands are fascinating. BVIs St.barts and Fort de France are Miami Beach knockoffs but the rest is magnificent. 
Our hassle has been internet. Orange sucks, digicell isn’t much better and Flow is useless. Other hassle is noise. Anywhere there’s coastal bars they play obnoxious “music” late into the night. Carnival is just starting so the noise is constant.
Surprisingly in the French islands see more French Al than French grp.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

On the topic of weather I use Windguru to plan my passage but on the morning of departure pull up the weather radar from meteo France or Barbados and have a look. Then as a final check on what is ACTUALLY happening not what is FORECAST to happen I have a hard look at clouds on the mountains tops for an idea of speed and direction. 

On passage I am always looking upwind for hints that something might be changing for the worse. Any hint that it might be will see me shortening sail. 

Re davits mine get used for security at night and never on interisland passages For those the OB is on the rail and the dink on the foredeck. 

Something I didn't see mentioned but I regard as essential is a pair of polarised lens sunglasses. These help you read the water on reef navigation. Much safer than relying on some electrons.

As for which is better Honda or Northern lights why not have sufficient solar ot do with out either. I HATE the sound of a generator whether it be on my boat or someone upwind polluting the air.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

I like the way windfinder presents info.
All these weather predict apps get their info from same/similar sources. Some gather from more sources than others.

Good subject post


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Mel, do you (or anyone else) ever use a bridle to pull the dinghy half way up the topside, via a mast halyard? Seems a common anti-theft approach. 

I've never done it, rather I pull it up the davits, when I'm concerned. However, it is more of an exercise than I'd like and wonder if a bridle and halyard is quicker/easier.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Minni, I saw this when I lived down in the Caribe. It was mostly done by big sailing yachts with very large tenders and heavy OBs... I think they were crewed charter boats. That size yachts don't have davits. They may have a stern dinghy garage. It's not a bad idea to get the dink out of the water if you are going to not be using it for some time... But most people at anchor are using their dink from early AM to late in the evening after a night at a local watering hole.


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

I agree about a good discussion. I try to provide one when I post. I or anyone here offering advise is doing that, "Offering Advice". Nothing is in concrete or the exact way of doing things. Everyone out here sails their boat differently. My only goal is to offer a BUFFET of ideas that readers can pick and choose from to see what works for them, their boat and their crew. Keep it up boys and girls. I always learn from others. I am just an average sailor that is bless to be able to do what I do. 

On the subject of my Rock Star Honda.. I know there is a current thread out there on this subject but here is my one penny worth.. When I built this boat 5 years ago a diesel generator was going to cost between 15-20k depending on which model I choose. I love Northern Lights.. but expensive. I had this Honda generator on my previous boat and it worked great. I paid $850 for it new in 2008. I can buy about 18 new Honda's for the price on one diesel generator. So I used that money I would have spent on other needier items to go cruising. I use the Honda only at anchor and usually when we are here for more than a few days. My solar panels amperage is about 40 amp hours short in a 24 hour period while at anchor. If sailing we are about 120 amp hours short. That is on a good sunny day. So best I can do is about 2.5 days on just solar before I need to charge the batteries. However on this boat we are princess. We love coffee and toast in the morning, hot croissants and hot shower in the evening. We also use it for the microwave and rare occasion air conditioning during dinner time. So when I get up I start the Honda to make coffee and toast and charge the batteries for about an hour or two depending on our needs. I need to make hot water every other day and that takes about 20 mins. Now lets talk about our other Rock Star the 9/18gal an hour watermaker.. It runs off of 12Vdc. I run that every third day or so. I can run it off the solar, engine or Honda. Dealers choice depending on what we are doing that day. Furthermore every now and than I need to break out a power tool and the Honda works great here too. 
Managing power can be an art form on a boat. I would rather run the Honda any day vs running the engine to just charge the batteries or make hot water. The Honda does that well enough. I do have a small inverted (600 watts) to power/charge small devices and TV at night if we want. Most important it powers my guitar amp so I can jam and terrorize the anchorage. It also keeps the boats from anchoring too close to me. Trust me,, nails on a chalkboard sounds better than how I play. 
I am not sure if I am going to upgrade my solar panels or put a wind generator on. My cruising days are getting numbered due to health concerns. So might not be worth it especially if this is my last season. Time will tell. 
On the subject of dinghy carriage.. I was not clear on that. I almost always carry it on the foredeck when ocean sailing. I use the back dinghy davits to lift it out of the water at night. The one time I didn't I sheered a transom bolt. My bad. The other time, I got severely wake (rolled the boat almost rail to rail in the water) by a tourist boat and Bertram fishing boat in a anchorage with dinghy and motor on. Bent a support bar. Probably also weakened said transom bolt. 
Weather - Wind Gods hate me.. I know that is a cliche but I have proven that true over 35 years plus sailing. They are just plain are mean (bastards). I have tried everything to appease the Wind Gods; rum, good rum whiskey,great whiskey, bourbon, beer, champagne, Bahama Mamma craved out of dead wood, Evil eyes, and even hired a witch doctor in DR. Nothing has worked so far. I have many choice words for the little sh.... ts. 

Keep sailing 
Keep posting
and always chase sunsets and sunrises. God does amazing stuff with just one light bulb in the sky.


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

Minnewaska said:


> Mel, do you (or anyone else) ever use a bridle to pull the dinghy half way up the topside, via a mast halyard? Seems a common anti-theft approach.
> 
> I've never done it, rather I pull it up the davits, when I'm concerned. However, it is more of an exercise than I'd like and wonder if a bridle and halyard is quicker/easier.


Yes, it is very common to see that here. Canoe stern boats and boats without swim platforms are were I see it the most often. However, any boat can do that. Hoist bridle are also used to hoist the dinghy on the foredeck as well. I believe a good thing to make up and have. I went to West Marine to make up my bridle system out of SS cable.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

capta said:


> You're in your 5th year down here and you still find value in paying Chris Parker for weather information? With everything available online and with 5 years of experience, I find that a bit odd.


When we sailed the Carib we used Chris for my gosh for 6+ years and when we return we will use him again. Why? We met Chris and had a long talk and he said hey you need to do your own forecast and then call me to verify. We did and became a quite good at it. And having your forecast in hand before talking to Chris gives you some confidence in your ability or something to discuss with Chris on why yours varies from his.

When we were ready to cross the pond we were sitting Antigua and talked to Chris daily along with our own forecast. There was a front coming across the USA and the question was how far south it was going. If it did not go to far south it would be a great sail to Horta if it went south it would not be a good day - We watched daily and it was 50-50 right up to departure day and we sat. 2 boats left. We waited and the front came south - we left behind it and on the way over we had 2 boat alerts for both boats that left - never heard from again.

Chis is a great tool but only a tool to be used with others. Everyone has their favorities ours are Windyty, WIndfinder, Windguru, Passage Weather and gribs from our ssb. YEA we use all of them when we prepare for a passage of more than a few hours - if only a few hours we use gribs, Windyty, windfinder and passage weather. What we are looking for is not only current and potential weather but what is causing the weather - where are the hi and lo pressure sytems and how are they moving -

just what works for us


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

Minnewaska said:


> Mel, do you (or anyone else) ever use a bridle to pull the dinghy half way up the topside, via a mast halyard? Seems a common anti-theft approach.
> 
> I've never done it, rather I pull it up the davits, when I'm concerned. However, it is more of an exercise than I'd like and wonder if a bridle and halyard is quicker/easier.


We sailed most of the Caribbean - east and west - and do not have davits - we carry our dink on the foredeck for ALL passages period and the motor on the rail. We have had a few times when the prevailing wisdom was get the dink out of the water and we made a bridle and used a mast halyard- same one to put the dink on the deck to raise it way out of the water.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

We do not have a gen set nor see the need for one. We run 550w of solar and it meets all our needs with the 6 house batteries we have. There may be an occasion that we need to run the engine but with a 150amp alternator we do not have to run it long. 

We did look at wind but the cost of the wind gen is so high and a cost benefit analysis of wind vs diesel is way in favor of diesel and running the engine. 

so far it has worked well for us but then we are not someone else -


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SanderO said:


> Minni, I saw this when I lived down in the Caribe. It was mostly done by big sailing yachts with very large tenders and heavy OBs... I think they were crewed charter boats. That size yachts don't have davits. They may have a stern dinghy garage. It's not a bad idea to get the dink out of the water if you are going to not be using it for some time... But most people at anchor are using their dink from early AM to late in the evening after a night at a local watering hole.


Interesting thought about larger vessels. I suppose, if your topsides are close to the water, a rolley anchorage could knock the dink around. I've not measured, but will guesstimate that our topsides are 4-5 ft a mid-ship. Not sure if high enough. Generally would be.

I'm thinking of the practice as to whether it's easier than the davits to haul up overnight and launch in the morning. When I haul on the davits, it's a bit of a pain to clear our sugar scoop transom. Then, you can't just haul it clear of the water, I need to haul it to the top and attach the securing straps or it will swing back and forth mercilessly.

However, ever since I ditched the center console dinghy, in favor of an aluminum hull and tiller (much lighter and more interior room) I can easily do it myself. It's just time consuming. The mast halyard and bridle method would require two people, plus some method to keep from marring the topsides. One person on the winch and one on the side deck. I do pull it up this way, when storing the dink on the foredeck. However, it has no motor in those cases and I just pull it up by the bow.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Interesting thought about larger vessels. I suppose, if your topsides are close to the water, a rolley anchorage could knock the dink around. I've not measured, but will guesstimate that our topsides are 4-5 ft a mid-ship. Not sure if high enough. Generally would be.
> 
> I'm thinking of the practice as to whether it's easier than the davits to haul up overnight and launch in the morning. When I haul on the davits, it's a bit of a pain to clear our sugar scoop transom. Then, you can't just haul it clear of the water, I need to haul it to the top and attach the securing straps or it will swing back and forth mercilessly.
> 
> However, ever since I ditched the center console dinghy, in favor of an aluminum hull and tiller (much lighter and more interior room) I can easily do it myself. It's just time consuming. The mast halyard and bridle method would require two people, plus some method to keep from marring the topsides. One person on the winch and one on the side deck. I do pull it up this way, when storing the dink on the foredeck. However, it has no motor in those cases and I just pull it up by the bow.


For typical sized cruising yachts hoisting the RIB... it has to have attachment points for the hoisting bridle is not all that difficult. The halyward can be stored low enough to reach from the dink... the bridle stowed in the dink. You bring the dink to the stern where the halyard is waiting...shackle it to the bridle and climb our of the dink taking the dink pennant with you to the deck. The pull the dink to the beam... and use a mast winch hopefully with a Milwaukee and winch bit and up it goes to however high you want it. Tie off the pennant. You should have a stainless steel chain also shacked to the dink's transom.... Lock the chain to the tow rail or stanchion base. Chain and pennant secure the dink fore and aft and your done.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Obviously if you want a comfortable reach you may have to change your plans. If the trades are blowing too far north of east and you are down in Trinidad and want to go iup island... maybe you sail to St Martin. If the wind is south of east then sailing down Island is going to be wet. Sail to Venezula.. and the work your way up Island. When you to go a specific place... you truly are at the mercy of the wind gods.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> The mast halyard and bridle method would require two people, plus some method to keep from marring the topsides. One person on the winch and one on the side deck. I do pull it up this way, when storing the dink on the foredeck. However, it has no motor in those cases and I just pull it up by the bow.


Ever try using the windlass instead of a winch. It still requires two people, but it's a lot faster and safer.


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

chuck5499 said:


> We do not have a gen set nor see the need for one. We run 550w of solar and it meets all our needs with the 6 house batteries we have. There may be an occasion that we need to run the engine but with a 150amp alternator we do not have to run it long.
> 
> We did look at wind but the cost of the wind gen is so high and a cost benefit analysis of wind vs diesel is way in favor of diesel and running the engine.
> 
> so far it has worked well for us but then we are not someone else -


Shalom Chuck and Patti -(my hero and mentor). Love the dribble, keep them coming. Love you all.
I agree on the 550 w of solar. I only have 350. If I had another 220w it would be a game changer here on Moondance. We also have a 150 amp alternator.. ( I told you , you are my mentor). Chris Parker we also agree on. Thanks for your input. 
:2 boat:


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Melrna said:


> Melissa
> Currently in Bequia , Grenadines St Vincent.


Hi, there I was a CC captain in Bequia just a few months ago.

A picture of your toolbox and parts bin would be cool to see.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

capta said:


> Ever try using the windlass instead of a winch. It still requires two people, but it's a lot faster and safer.


All of our halyards (main, jib, spin and staysail) all route behind the dodger to the cockpit cabin top, where there is an electric winch. I just need someone there to push the button, while another guides her up the side. The davits are a one person operation. A buddy just bought a boat with electric davit winches. I'll have to see how cool that is this season. However, the manual effort is not an issue at all, for our light rib. It's just a clunky time consuming process.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Put in the 8kw Northern Lights as got an exceptionally good deal for it. 9k including installation. Ran the boat back and forth without a genset for a couple of years. Not an issue in Carib as solar and wind sufficed but not adequate wind in NE USA. 
Wind generates 24/7. Solar only during the day. Actually get more watts out of solar when up north given the longer summer days.
A C isn’t necessary in the tropics due to the wind but it’s sure nice to escape the humidity and dry out the boat on occasion. 
Genset goes on with ac, Watermaker, vacuum cleaner and water heater. It goes on when we want one of those and in order to get a load on it so does the other stuff.
I’m a big fan of the two D400s I have. No maintenance. Charge during the night. Finishes the last few % to get the lifelines to 100% and keep sulfanation away. 
Inspite of having Ssb,gribs, chris and passage weather still a big fan of my Meteoman. Recording barometers tells you wants going on where you are immediately. Gribs can be quite misleading. Even the 500mb can be more accurate. 
People forget they are the product of a computer program. When looking good to get two ways the numbers are crunched. Nam/gfs/wrk whatever. All too often have been in 30s when there’s one vane on the arrow. 
For folks doing their first major excursion also remember compression zones and it’s the waves that kill you not the wind. So 20-30 for a day is less troublesome than high teens for a week. 
Going to Rodney bay on Wednesday to buddy boat with a friend has he’s having boat troubles.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Should mention like the low band width gribs on passage weather. Can get weather downloaded in a tenth of the time then with all the pretty colors and other unnecessary junk on the other sites. Helpful when WiFi is limited or you’re stuck using sat phone or SSB.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Stainless steel chain, separate lock on engine (that’s what they want) and raise it. Keep the dinghy. No T/T on dinghy decreases risk of break in to main vessel. We even removed our ols state numbers as well.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Welcome back Melissa!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

outbound said:


> Stainless steel chain, separate lock on engine (that's what they want) and raise it. Keep the dinghy. No T/T on dinghy decreases risk of break in to main vessel. We even removed our ols state numbers as well.


I have a SS sheathed wire cable, but rarely ever use it. Only a few times have I locked up the dink on a bareboat, to the transom overnight. The cable can clunk around all night, in sportier conditions. I have used mine on the rarest occasion in New England, but only at relatively abandon dinghy docks in bigger cities.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Melrna said:


> .....My cruising days are getting numbered due to health concerns. So might not be worth it especially if this is my last season. Time will tell.......


I'm very sorry to hear this. It's all of our biggest concern. 5 years is simply not enough. Hope the issues are manageable.

I keep telling myself that I can be happy just hopping around New England in good weather windows, when the longer distance cruising days are over. I'd prefer to be that exception that can stay out longer.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

outbound said:


> Stainless steel chain, separate lock on engine (that's what they want) and raise it. Keep the dinghy. No T/T on dinghy decreases risk of break in to main vessel. We even removed our ols state numbers as well.


If someone wants your dink and it isn't on davits or aboard, then they will take it in just a few seconds with a set of bolt cutters, SS chain or not! I've found a better option is rigging wire (1X19), which is much harder to cut quickly (if at all) with bolt cutters. It is bulky and a pain, but it will do the job.
But most of the dinghy theft down here is for the motor, not the dinghy. Quite often the dink is found motorless rather quickly. If the whole thing goes missing, I'd be checking the outbound sailing boats, not the locals, and that's where having some prominent form of ID on the dink will be theft prevention.
However, I'm fairly convinced that a goodly number of the dinghies reported stolen were poorly tied to the boat and not stolen at all, especially among those who close the pub night after night.
I think, as painful as it might be to believe, there is a lot more boater on boater theft than local on boater than most suspect.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

This is a great discussion and I am *glad to see that Melrna is back*!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I’m pretty sure there is hardened chain that is nearly impossible to cut with bolt cutters. Bet most chain is easily cut, however. I understand that cable is harder to cut, because it tends to spread out and distribute the force. That’s what we use. I still think the determined can get through it. However, slowing them down or making it difficult is generally all it takes, especially if they’re messing around, with you sleeping aboard.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Security chain is formed so that cutters dont get an easy bite...is too much bite for them. The rockwell is greater than the cutters
Cable needs special shears to be cut cleanly


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

outbound said:


> Should mention like the low band width gribs on passage weather. Can get weather downloaded in a tenth of the time then with all the pretty colors and other unnecessary junk on the other sites. Helpful when WiFi is limited or you're stuck using sat phone or SSB.


We have been using our ssb for that for a long time. Just had to renew my 10yr ham license. And it works almost everywhere if you can find a station. in the Carib we had no trouble and when we crossed we used a couple of stations in Canada and one in Fla all the way to Horta except for the last day. We downloaded twice a day. When we did the Black Sea we had a 3 day from Russia to Odessa and had a major front coming at us so we again downloaded twice a day just in case the front came in early and we had run and hide. We used stations in Germany and Switzerland (yea be beat it by 18 hours - it came in with 50+ winds) - When we leave Egypt we will use it for a Med crossing as we head north.

The question is if we cross back this year will we get a sat phone in Gib or just rely on our ssb. we'll see. As a winlink operator we love it but sometimes finding a station on our long distance is an issue but can be overcome with work and patience - love our ssb

There is one thing we do - we record the next 5-7 days in a notebook-- we record wind, wind direction and pressure - we then watch to see if there are changes and prepare according - does 5-7 out really mean anything - well I would not take it to Vegas but it is an indication but what is important are the changes over time and by recording we can see if we got something coming and how we can avoid it


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

outbound said:


> Should mention like the low band width gribs on passage weather..


I never realized they had this feature. Just went to their site to see how it worked. Pretty cool. Thanks.

On related note, I find the WeatherTracker app on my iphone/ipad to be fairly low bandwidth and able to download a file with the most marginal cell or wifi coverage. The kind of coverage that won't allow full webpages to download.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Chuck wrote:



> . There is one thing we do - we record the next 5-7 days in a notebook-- we record wind, wind direction and pressure - we then watch to see if there are changes and prepare according - does 5-7 out really mean anything - well I would not take it to Vegas but it is an indication but what is important are the changes over time and by recording we can see if we got something coming and how we can avoid it


That's why I like Weathetrack application among other reasons. Personally I like to watch the TREND the weather is following. Is it getting consistently stronger, weaker? With windfinder the tribe are saved until you ditch them. Then I can go back and see what the forecast was a cullenif days ago.

It also has this "metro tram" function where when you pick a point it gives you a 10 day run of all parameters for that point. Including CAPE and wave height. It is missing wave period, which I get from bouy weather. Bouy weather now has 2 models. GDS and LOLA, but I've no idea what that is. It generally shows significantly more wind and wave than GFS. I find it is shows, rough average, slightly more wind than we actually get. But the GFS wave forecast is more realistic. If all I looked at was Bouyweather LOLA I would never go out!


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

I (almost) always use 2 feathers to the dink. Towing or when tied to the mothership. The ONE time I didn’t, I had just reattached the main painter to the short bridle, which I had just replaced, which I use on the Porta-Boat. I forgot the secondary tether. The bridle knot worked loose over night and the dink floated off. I got a call in the morning a couple of local St Eustis fishermen found out dink a mile or 2 off and brought it back to us. I got some well deserved ribbing in the harbor that afternoon. 

What a lucky guy I am!!


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

hpeer said:


> I (almost) always use 2 feathers to the dink. Towing or when tied to the mothership. The ONE time I didn't, I had just reattached the main painter to the short bridle, which I had just replaced, which I use on the Porta-Boat. I forgot the secondary tether. The bridle knot worked loose over night and the dink floated off. I got a call in the morning a couple of local St Eustis fishermen found out dink a mile or 2 off and brought it back to us. I got some well deserved ribbing in the harbor that afternoon.
> 
> What a lucky guy I am!!


Our dink has a line to the bow eye, It's quite long. When we tow we use a Davis towing bridle with a float. It uses webbing and is shackled to the 2 towing rings. This bridle is then attached to a 50' braid on braid line with a large shackle knotted to its center. For towing one end is tied to a stbd stern cleat the other to a port stern cleat. The line from the bow eye is a security line with no tension on it tied to a cleat or the pushpit. The towing lines can be use to *trim* the dink to tow it in the optimal position... for wave train. The tow is about 20-30' and set to NOT be on the back (aft) side of the wave. When anchoring or coming along side the lines are pulled in so the tow is short...a few feet from the stern.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

chuck5499 said:


> Everyone has their favorities ours are Windyty, WIndfinder, Windguru, Passage Weather and gribs from our ssb.


I'm always amused at the discussions and debates around which are the best weather apps. Most don't seem to understand that they are ALL using the same forecast models, and are ALL identical, except for how they present those data graphically.

The only one I'm aware of that uses proprietary models is Passage Weather, and I have yet to see their proprietary models have any relationship to reality. Their GFS and ECW models, however, are exactly the same as every other app, program, and website uses.

They are also the same models Chris Parker uses for his forecasts. What you are getting with Parker is a few additional pieces of data one might not have bandwidth for like synoptic charts, radar and satellite data, a much wider weather view and historic trends, etc - but more importantly, a trained weather forecaster's interpretation of all these data.

Like Chuck, we make our own forecasts, and then compare with Chris's. Over the years, this training has made us pretty competent at weather forecasting, and has been well worth the price.

Mark


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

capta said:


> I've found a better option is rigging wire (1X19), which is much harder to cut quickly (if at all) with bolt cutters. It is bulky and a pain, but it will do the job.


1x19 is very stiff. How do you terminate it since it can't be easily formed into an eye? How do you store it in the dinghy or elsewhere, since it doesn't coil very tightly?



capta said:


> I'm fairly convinced that a goodly number of the dinghies reported stolen were poorly tied to the boat and not stolen at all, especially among those who close the pub night after night.
> I think, as painful as it might be to believe, there is a lot more boater on boater theft than local on boater than most suspect.


Agreed. I have slowly come to the opinion over the past 10yrs of missing dink reports that most have gone walkabout due to incompetence, and the rest have been stolen by other cruisers. I've seen other cruisers stealing stuff - and think it is a much bigger problem than acknowledged. Too easy to blame locals, and cruising thieves are counting on that. Personally, I guesstimate only 10-15% are local thefts, and that is highly dependent on cruising grounds - 0% in the Bahamas outside of Nassau, but maybe 30% in some other places like Portobello and Puerto Lindo Panama.

Mark


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

For us, the single best thing we ever put on the boat for cruising was lithium batteries. An absolute game-changer in many more ways than obvious, or than we expected. The ripple effect is great - get rid of the generator, switch to a 30-40gph AC-powered watermaker, power the water heater through the inverter, etc. A modest amount of solar keeps them going, and engine run times (if needed) are shortened to a fraction of before.

The second best thing we added was the 30gph watermaker. A watermaker of any type is a game-changer, and a high output one steps that up considerably - allowing for regular and frequent washing down the boat and its equipment, washing the anchor chain with fresh water as it goes into the locker, laundry any time and any size loads, regular washing of all the cockpit cushions and canvas, washing the dinghy down after each use, regular flushing of the outboard, frequent showers after swimming or just when hot. Most of all, as a catamaran, we drop 500lbs of dead water weight, because we can just push a button and refill the bottom half of the tank quickly.

The third best thing we added was full shades for the cockpit and cabin top. The cockpit is always cool and dark with a nice breeze blowing through, and the shades over the cabin top cut the heat below by 20F.

On the boat setup, I can't praise high enough running all lines to an electric winch in the cockpit. We raise/lower sails, reef, and trim without leaving the helm seat. One person is all that is needed to fully operate all aspects of sailing the boat - the off watch person gets to sleep.

Mark


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

colemj said:


> I'm always amused at the discussions and debates around which are the best weather apps. Most don't seem to understand that they are ALL using the same forecast models, and are ALL identical, except for how they present those data graphically.
> 
> The only one I'm aware of that uses proprietary models is Passage Weather, and I have yet to see their proprietary models have any relationship to reality. Their GFS and ECW models, however, are exactly the same as every other app, program, and website uses.
> 
> ...


YEP - you hit the nail on the head - what we like is the presentations - we want to see the pressure gradients and where they are and how they are moving - some of the models are good at it and some are not -

When we have internet we do look at radar and you would be surprised how many countries have great wx radar -


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

colemj said:


> 1x19 is very stiff. How do you terminate it since it can't be easily formed into an eye? How do you store it in the dinghy or elsewhere, since it doesn't coil very tightly?
> 
> Agreed. I have slowly come to the opinion over the past 10yrs of missing dink reports that most have gone walkabout due to incompetence, and the rest have been stolen by other cruisers. I've seen other cruisers stealing stuff - and think it is a much bigger problem than acknowledged. Too easy to blame locals, and cruising thieves are counting on that. Personally, I guesstimate only 10-15% are local thefts, and that is highly dependent on cruising grounds - 0% in the Bahamas outside of Nassau, but maybe 30% in some other places like Portobello and Puerto Lindo Panama.
> 
> Mark


Shiva has 10mm 1x19 rigging. YES it is very stiff. We have some coiled and it's about 30Ø. We use Norsemen for replacement not swaged.

+++

We had a RIB with a new 4 stoke 8 Honda go walkabout. In new Greenwich RI. I don't know if it was poorly tied and floated away while we were asleep or if someone came by at stole it... which seems unlikely. We were anchored. However the dink had a name, address phone number plaque on the transom and no one reported a lost dink found. We called around as well. No luck. So if it wasn't stolen... it was found and kept and not reported or it was another alien abduction. We use a stainless steel chain to lock the dink and always remove the kill key when paranoia is in the air. But anyone who wants to steel a dink can pretty easily do it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SO. Were you anchored off the beach on Goddard State Park in East Greenwich perhaps? Lot's of kids goof around in that area. It's actually one anchorage that I always fully lock up, when I head to town. If that's it, my bet is a local, I'm afraid.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Northeast of Long Point in Greenwich Bay... Mischief seems likely.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Going back to the OPs request.
What works is 2 strokes. What doesn’t is 4 strokes.
If you put a inline filter on your gas line and run the carb dry if your not going to use the engine for a couple of days then a 2 stroke is nearly bulletproof. 4 strokes seem to have a lot more issues. The 2 stroke is such a simple thing it’s more tolerant. Given the dinghy is your link to land it’s a big deal when it doesn’t work. The Yamaha seems to be the preferred machine but we’ve been happy with our cheaper tohatsu.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

I'd disagree about the 2/4 stroke difference. We've been cruising full time around the entire Caribbean Sea for over 10yrs now with a 4 stroke and it has been brilliant. Two of them, actually, a Honda 15 and a Suzuki 20. The Honda died of old age, and was abused relentlessly with no problems.

Our new boat has a 2yr old Tohatsu 18hp 2-stroke and I can't wait to get rid of it. It uses at least 60% more fuel than our Suzuki 20hp, smokes and smells, rattles and growls, and I have to mix the gas. And being carbureted, it requires a secret combination of throttle position and choke position, for a secret amount of time to start - then floods if it isn't done correctly. The 4-strokes are so quiet and smooth that you don't even know they are running at idle. When you are cruising outside of fuel availability, it is nice to be able to go months on 10 gallons of gas while using the dink to go miles/day fishing and exploring. This Tohatsu takes 3gal of fuel just to go to a fuel stop and back. If you have a Honda generator, it is nice to not have to partition fuel into mixed and non-mixed. 

Our experiences with other cruisers is that they deeply believe in their 2-strokes, particularly the Yamaha 15, but are also almost constantly working on them. And looking for more gasoline. The people with 4 strokes are not having problems, except for those with Yamaha 20hp - for some reason that particular engine is troublesome. Another exception are the very small carbureted 4-strokes below 6-8hp - those have continual carburetor issues, but I think it is the same for the 2-strokes of the same size.

Excellent advice on a good in-line filter. Make sure it is also a water separator. This one easy inexpensive thing is the most important part of keeping any outboard trouble-free - and the one thing few people actually do.

Mark


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

The newish 4 stroke carbed are not very tolerant. FI very reliable.
My 4hp 2 stroke does one thing better than my 6hp 4 stroke...
Always always always starts and runs

But drinks at least double the fuel.
Mixing 100/1 doesnt bother me


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

Update: Single handed the boat overnight from Bequia to St Lucia (80nm). It was the full Monty of weather phenomenon, calm winds to roaring winds 25 kts between St Vincent and St Lucia, rain showers, calm seas to large seas. Wind on the bow to beam reach. Water over the bow and got hit with some beam seas. Boat is cover in salt water. My dink that was strapped down on the foredeck got moved by the green water coming over. Got sandwiched between cruise ships and freighters. Actually made the cruise ship turn course so as not to hit me because I had no place to go. He was nice about it. Overall an interesting experience. Main was reefed all night and jib was out, in, out, reefed, in, out ,in.. I was busy. Current was 1.5 kts starting behind me but as night progress moved to abeam. I ended up tacking back into Rodney Bay 10 NM out. What I planned was 5.5 kts and what I got was average 7.7 kts. So I ended up laying up for a few hours outside of Rodney Bay until sunrise ( I don't go into any anchorage at night). Heave too works, calmed the boat down, made coffee and had a nice breakfast. Of course all the cruise ships (4) and freighters started to show up all at the same time. So lots of radio chatter. They obviously had a pecking order to enter the main port here. They too waited until sunrise to enter. I have a lot of pictures of this to show but I still cannot figure out how to post here. Maybe Donna will bail me out again. 
On the subject of dink outboard motors. 2 strokes rule out here. Not to say there isn't any 4 strokes but from my observation only Americans and Canadians carry those. Europeans like the smaller engines under 4 and our side of the world are either 9.9 or 18-20 hp. 2 strokes weigh less which can be a factor for a lot of people, myself included. My brand new Nissan is in the shop,, won't start. But I think it is a case of bad gas. I saw a rash of motors that wouldn't start in Bequia beside mine. Mine is under warranty so that is one less boat project I have to worry about for now. FYI - I believe there is only 3 manufactures of outboards. Yamaha and Honda are solo and the rest are made by Tohatsu/Mercury . Someone correct me on this please. Also Honda motors are hard to get parts and fixed outside the USA from what I understand too. I walked over to Island World store (West Marine Caribbean)(here in Rodney Bay) where I bought it from (Grenada) and within 30 mins a guy came to take it to the shop to fix it. Pretty cool. I should have it back tomorrow. I agree with Mark about a water separator. I have one but haven't installed it yet. I need to get new fittings for the new motor.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Nice post! I haven't been down that way for more than 20 years, but I recall the outer Rodney Bay was a pretty wide open easy to enter anchorage. I don't have access to charts so this is a bit of a fog. There was a channel and a small anchorage near the marina. I need to get down there again. This sort of post is a motivation.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Tohatsu makes small OB's for Mercury, Suzuki, and I think Evinrude. Once above ~15hp (maybe 10hp), engine manufacturers make their own. These include Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Tohatsu, Evinrude, and Mercury. I guess you could include Lehr too.

Nissan was bought by Tohatsu recently, so I left them out of the above. They were always rebranded Tohatsu anyway.

The weight differences are no longer that great, and mostly in small OB's. Once at 15hp, the weight differentials between 2/4 strokes is inconsequential. For example, our Suzuki 20hp 4-stroke is only 4lbs heavier than our Tohatsu 18hp 2-stroke, and the same for the Yamaha 15hp Enduro 2-stroke.

This weight indifference is something nobody wants to believe, so it keeps getting perpetrated. A look at actual data sheets will show the truth.

The argument about local parts availability is hollow to me. I've never needed anything besides routine consumable parts for any of our 4-strokes, and many areas do not stock many parts even for those OB's that are heavily sold there. For example in Panama, where Yamaha and Tohatsu 2-strokes are heavily sold, parts needed to be ordered in for almost anything. It isn't cost-effective anymore to keep large stores of parts. Even things like carburetors and jets. It is almost always quicker (and sometimes cheaper) to just order parts from the US or UK. After all, this is what many of the local shops do.

The difference in fuel consumption is tremendous. The new fuel-injected 4-strokes use 3-4x less gas than the popular 2-strokes. Really. We carry so much less gasoline around than our 2-stroke friends. Cruising out in the boonies where fuel isn't available at any cost, this becomes important. At $5-6/gal, helps the wallet also.

It may just be US and Canadians that are using 4-strokes, but I'm seeing many more of these OB's now than 10yrs ago. Suzuki has jumped into the Western Caribe market in a big way, and local fisherman in many areas are switching for the fuel consumption alone.

But it is an old cruising meme that one should get a Yamaha 15hp 2-stroke. Like one should have a double-ender, or full keel, or ketch rig, or hank on sails. I think like those, time will eventually lead to re-examination.

Mark


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

The Yamaha 15 meme is likely because if there are so many of them... every plays... then getting repairs becomes less a mystery, easier to find competent labor and parts. You have what is deemed an uncommon engine... people expect to have to wait for parts and have the mechanic bollocks up the repair. They may be more unreliable that other OBs by stats... but maybe easier to get repaired???? 

For my needs they are too big / heavy in any case.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SanderO said:


> Northeast of Long Point in Greenwich Bay... Mischief seems likely.


Yup, that's it. Goddard Park Beach. Pretty spot. Just one where I feel the need to be much more careful.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

SanderO said:


> The Yamaha 15 meme is likely because if there are so many of them... every plays... then getting repairs becomes less a mystery, easier to find competent labor and parts. You have what is deemed an uncommon engine... people expect to have to wait for parts and have the mechanic bollocks up the repair. They may be more unreliable that other OBs by stats... but maybe easier to get repaired????
> 
> For my needs they are too big / heavy in any case.


It would be a poor mechanic who could only work on one brand of small outboard. Regardless of type or brand, these are fundamentally the same engineering and mechanics. Yes, definitely differences between 2 and 4 stroke, but if anyone has ever worked on an automobile, they immediately understand 4 strokes.

Parts is the main thing that people misunderstand. Not many places actually have real parts. Maybe a carb kit or oil plug or impeller, but one should be carrying those anyway. Any real parts that are needed will almost surely need to be ordered from overseas. It doesn't make economic sense to keep large stocks of parts around - those are kept in centralize distribution centers and ordered in as needed.

One more thing about weight. If one needs to regularly lift their engine on and off by hand, then there is no real difference between a 86lb 15hp 2-stroke and a 91lb 15hp 4-stroke. One should not have an engine this size regardless of type or brand. For smaller engines 2-6hp, the 2-strokes are lighter.

Mark


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

colemj said:


> It would be a poor mechanic who could only work on one brand of small outboard. Regardless of type or brand, these are fundamentally the same engineering and mechanics. Yes, definitely differences between 2 and 4 stroke, but if anyone has ever worked on an automobile, they immediately understand 4 strokes.
> 
> Parts is the main thing that people misunderstand. Not many places actually have real parts. Maybe a carb kit or oil plug or impeller, but one should be carrying those anyway. Any real parts that are needed will almost surely need to be ordered from overseas. It doesn't make economic sense to keep large stocks of parts around - those are kept in centralize distribution centers and ordered in as needed.
> 
> ...


I am referring to perception and a herd mentality. It's like the cool thing to do...

I decided long ago to use a demountable crane for getting the OB from the RIB to the rail. It's easy peasy for 2 and totally doable by one old salt. I use an 4 stroke 8 which can plane my RIB with a clean bottom and 2 adults. I don't have the need or the opportunity to plane however 99% of the time. I am thrilled not to be mixing oil into fuel.


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## Pilot2 (Jan 16, 2018)

Melrna said:


> ....and hot shower in the evening.


For us less-initiated, please explain the equipment you use to accomplish your hot shower.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Pilot2 said:


> For us less-initiated, please explain the equipment you use to accomplish your hot shower.


Boat has a 6 gal hot water heater which uses engine heat to heat the water.

We typically use the engine a few hours a day... which both makes hot water and drives the compressor and cools the fridge.


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## Pilot2 (Jan 16, 2018)

SanderO said:


> Boat has a 6 gal hot water heater which uses engine heat to heat the water.
> 
> We typically use the engine a few hours a day... which both makes hot water and drives the compressor and cools the fridge.


Thanks. Mllrna had mentioned a hot shower in the wake of speaking of a generator...thus I wondered if the generator was somehow utilized to heat water for a shower. I was wondering how big a generator it would take to power a small on-demand hot water heater.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Pilot2 said:


> Thanks. Mllrna had mentioned a hot shower in the wake of speaking of a generator...thus I wondered if the generator was somehow utilized to heat water for a shower. I was wondering how big a generator it would take to power a small on-demand hot water heater.


When you are burning fuel... you are making heat as a by product.

Your engine or a generator can:

make hot water
drive a compressor
generate electricity
make noise and smoke


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Pilot2 said:


> ...thus I wondered if the generator was somehow utilized to heat water for a shower. ....


Boats often have the same kind of small electric hot water heater found in small apartments. Ours is a 10 gallon hot water heater, whose 110v heating element is powered by the generator or shore power. It also has a recirculating circuit, like SO indicated, which pulls heat off a running engine. I actually find the recirculator makes it too hot, when underway.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Boats often have the same kind of small electric hot water heater found in small apartments. Ours is a 10 gallon hot water heater, whose 110v heating element is powered by the generator or shore power. It also has a recirculating circuit, like SO indicated, which pulls heat off a running engine. I actually find the recirculator makes it too hot, when underway.


It is extremely hot... but you have to mix it with cold water with you faucet mixing valves.  Our Raritan has a 110v heating element but we are not using it because we are not hooked up to shore power and don't use a genset and the heating element draws too many amps for our inverter. All our 110v loads are small and the inverter can handle them... with one exception... the heat gun. We don't run out of hot water unless a land lubber is aboard and showers. ;-)


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SanderO said:


> It is extremely hot... but you have to mix it with cold water with you faucet mixing valves.  ....


We have a dedicated shower, as opposed to a wet head. I have a feeling there is some sort of odd mixing arrangement buried behind the faucet. One faucet is for temp, the other is for on/off. I like the set up, as you theoretically get the temp right set and should not screw it up, turning it on and off. I'm guessing it is preset to assume one would never want strictly cold water in the shower. Even set to it's coldest setting, it's uncomfortably hot (not scalding), if one showers immediately upon a long diesel running arrival. With just the electric element, at the slip, it requires a setting closer to 80% hot to be right.

It calms down pretty quickly, when too hot, as cold water backfills the hot water tank and the electric element doesn't maintain it. Of course, with the good heat soaking of that recirculator, the electric element can keep up much more efficiently than when we turn on the genset and try to warm up the water from stone cold.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Why not use s solar heater,

I like to have simple things on my boat, so no complex fuel eating noise making generator or main engine feeding heat to a pressurised tank, instead I have a bag with a clear side and a black side with a hose.

Leave in the sun and free hot water.

WARNING 3 hours at mid day can get the water too hot to use for a shower.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Solar showers are great. I've used them. Not the same as running hot water in a real shower. Ours will also keep up with 6 or 8 guests aboard (not an uncommon thing) with only a short recovery period between. 

When the genset comes on, it always multi-tasks. House bank charging, device charging, ice making, laundry, occasional air conditioning, the dreaded hair dryer. I actually insist it do more than just make hot water.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

TQA said:


> Why not use s solar heater,
> 
> I like to have simple things on my boat, so no complex fuel eating noise making generator or main engine feeding heat to a pressurised tank, instead I have a bag with a clear side and a black side with a hose.
> 
> ...


Every sailboat owner hates using their diesel. But the reality is that they have to... getting in and out of the marina... motoring in a channel... getting to and from the mooring. I found that on a typical day we sail... we always use the engine a few hours.

Why waste the heat? A heat with a heat exchanger USES the heat created by the engine when it is used for OTHER purposes. We don't run the diesel to make hot water. We make hot water when the diesel runs.

Our shower is a hand shower which doubles as the sink faucet. We can mix the temp to please and the handle has a shut off valve. Showers don't use much water or electricity... we don't have to mess with a plastic bag with a hose thru the hatch.

Solar showers are clearly not as good for many reasons as the one we have. Our head IS the shower and so when we are done we wipe down the walls and we have cleaned the head too.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Not all sailboat owners hate to burn diesel. I was aboard a 70 ft boat last year, with her full time Captain. He told me the generator runs 24/7, when the owner is aboard, which was really a comment on how reliable he found it. All home style systems available all the time for mommy and daddy. 

Sounded ridiculous to me, although, this is quite common in the very large boat crowd. This sailboat carried 700 gallons of diesel!!

p.s. I asked around and learned the owner doesn't even know how to sail. His Captain was very loyal and didn't give him up.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Can get hot water from:
Engine or generator waste heat
Webasto furnace (used up north)
Heating element using AC electricity 
Down here people also use those black solar heated bags to avoid the need to turn on a generator.
Our tanks are integral to the hull and at water inside eventually reaches ocean temp so is luke warm out of the cold faucet.
It’s surprising how long hot water lasts if you’re only using it to shower. Usually get 6 showers out of it. As it starts out so hot as mentioned above. 
Often take cool showers to beat the heat for awhile.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

It terms of what works it’s the spectra z ion system watermaker. No chemicals, no genset most times, cheap filters readily available in most places.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Melrna said:


> Update: Single handed the boat overnight from Bequia to St Lucia (80nm). It was the full Monty of weather phenomenon, calm winds to roaring winds 25 kts between St Vincent and St Lucia, rain showers, calm seas to large seas. Wind on the bow to beam reach. Water over the bow and got hit with some beam seas. Boat is cover in salt water. My dink that was strapped down on the foredeck got moved by the green water coming over. Got sandwiched between cruise ships and freighters. Actually made the cruise ship turn course so as not to hit me because I had no place to go. He was nice about it. Overall an interesting experience. Main was reefed all night and jib was out, in, out, reefed, in, out ,in.. I was busy. Current was 1.5 kts starting behind me but as night progress moved to abeam. I ended up tacking back into Rodney Bay 10 NM out. What I planned was 5.5 kts and what I got was average 7.7 kts. So I ended up laying up for a few hours outside of Rodney Bay until sunrise ( I don't go into any anchorage at night). Heave too works, calmed the boat down, made coffee and had a nice breakfast. Of course all the cruise ships (4) and freighters started to show up all at the same time. So lots of radio chatter. They obviously had a pecking order to enter the main port here. They too waited until sunrise to enter. I have a lot of pictures of this to show but I still cannot figure out how to post here. Maybe Donna will bail me out again.
> On the subject of dink outboard motors. 2 strokes rule out here. Not to say there isn't any 4 strokes but from my observation only Americans and Canadians carry those. Europeans like the smaller engines under 4 and our side of the world are either 9.9 or 18-20 hp. 2 strokes weigh less which can be a factor for a lot of people, myself included. My brand new Nissan is in the shop,, won't start. But I think it is a case of bad gas. I saw a rash of motors that wouldn't start in Bequia beside mine. Mine is under warranty so that is one less boat project I have to worry about for now. FYI - I believe there is only 3 manufactures of outboards. Yamaha and Honda are solo and the rest are made by Tohatsu/Mercury . Someone correct me on this please. Also Honda motors are hard to get parts and fixed outside the USA from what I understand too. I walked over to Island World store (West Marine Caribbean)(here in Rodney Bay) where I bought it from (Grenada) and within 30 mins a guy came to take it to the shop to fix it. Pretty cool. I should have it back tomorrow. I agree with Mark about a water separator. I have one but haven't installed it yet. I need to get new fittings for the new motor.


Not to be dismissive, this is only my second season here, but that seems fairly normal conditions to me. We had a passage a few weeks ago where in a dry squall we had solid 35 knots indicated and I saw a bump to 39. We always tie our anchors down to prevent them slamming when we get a face full.

Surely not pleasant, but many of our inter-island runs are preeminently over 20 and some predominantly over 25, and I think we are kinda careful.

Also I don't understand about getting squeezed between shipping.

While our boats are both 44' and single masted, they are there after radically different. 20 tons vs 12, full keel vs fin with a bulb, cutter vs sloop. Perhaps therein lies our different experiences.

Also, are you single handing?


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

hpeer said:


> Not to be dismissive, this is only my second season here, but that seems fairly normal conditions to me. We had a passage a few weeks ago where in a dry squall we had solid 35 knots indicated and I saw a bump to 39. We always tie our anchors down to prevent them slamming when we get a face full.
> 
> Surely not pleasant, but many of our inter-island runs are preeminently over 20 and some predominantly over 25, and I think we are kinda careful.
> 
> ...


Yes you are correct in that these are normal conditions down here. That is what I trying to point out to those that don't sail down here. 
The cruise ship and freighter squeeze is hard to explain without a photo. ( I have it but can never figure out how to post photos here). Basically the cruise ship was on my forward port beam heading on an intercept course, the freighter was just behind me 1/2 mile away on my starboard side. I had already turned 60 degrees to port to avoid him when the cruise ship 20 mins later became a problem. Wind was 50 degrees off my starboard. It was either lay-up or have the cruise ship turn 10 degrees to pass off my stern, which he did. That cruise ship was also a problem for the said freighter because I heard them chat also. When the other 3 cruise ship came over the horizon and 2 more freighters also showed up it became quite the show. They were mostly talking on channel 9 and 14.

Heavy displacement vs modern construction boats ride and sail differently. No question about it. Pick you poison. Having said that , you did say not pleasant either. So maybe not so different.

On this leg of the journey , yes I sailed alone. Spouse is in the US dealing with a family emergency. But than, I am the captain and owner of this ship.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Mel, the ColRegs don't do a good job of resolving multiple conflicts, that's for sure. What relative direction was the boat to your starboard heading? You were stand on with respect to the cruise ship off your port, I assume. If this turn would not conflict with the starboard traffic, I probably would have made a very large (90 deg) turn to port to take the cruise ships stern, but the other traffic may be prevented and I can't picture it. 

The other undefined issue in the ColRegs is when risk of collision actually exists. Prior to that point, there are no stand on and give way vessels, and any ship can make any turn it chooses. Although, they should be made in a very obvious manner.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Does anyone here use pilot charts? Are they periodically updated? Have the trade winds changed in magnitude and direction over time? After reading posts which report about winds in the Caribbean on this site over the past few years my impression having been down there for 4 years back in the early 90s is that winds are not stronger and with more gusts. I write this because I used to sail full hoist virtually all the time yet some write they are usually setting one reef down there lately .


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I was just down there for two weeks. Full hoist every day. Most we saw was 16kts. It was much less than I'm accustom to over the winter, but not unheard of. Virtually no one sails every day, so all of our experiences are in fairly limited windows. Overall change like this needs a much bigger statistical look. 

I just went to weather underground to see if I could get historical data at STT. They have it, but I haven't figured out how to get multiple years of it at once. 

March has seen daily max wind range from 16 to 22 kts at the STT airport. Min daily from 0 to 8 kts. 

I looked at January too. Max daily was between 14 and 24 kts. Min daily ranged from 0-7.


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

SanderO said:


> Does anyone here use pilot charts? Are they periodically updated? Have the trade winds changed in magnitude and direction over time? After reading posts which report about winds in the Caribbean on this site over the past few years my impression having been down there for 4 years back in the early 90s is that winds are not stronger and with more gusts. I write this because I used to sail full hoist virtually all the time yet some write they are usually setting one reef down there lately .


I have been told by old salts that the winds in the Windward Islands have been stronger over the last several years. The cold fronts coming off the USA don't get down here to much to lesson the trade winds. If they do only about 5 knots from what we have seen. The cold fronts do penetrate in the Leeward Islands like the BVI area. They get more relaxing wind relief than the Windward Islands. 
Now for a broader discussion, I would think heavy full displacement keel boat say 40-55,000 lbs or more of the 70,80,90's vintage take a lot more wind to move than the modern production boats like mine that weigh 25,000 lbs fully loaded. Furthermore, since we are sailing the "HOUSE" vs a charter boat , we sail to keep the boat upright hence conservatively (reef sails). It is just our style, might not be yours.

The Colregs did work in my instance because I was the stand on vessel and the cruise ship did turn. Not only did he turned for me but also for the freighter. However, other parts of the regs worked against me like mass tonnage and ability to turn. But again the cruise ship did have the sea room to maneuver out of the way. Still, I am not a fan of looking at the bow wave of a BAB (Big Ass Boat) heading my way. I could turn 90 to port and lay up. That was plan B. He would have missed me by 1000 feet according to AIS. I was only 5 miles off the coast of St Lucia when all this happen near the port of Castries. Since Moondance is a magnet for cruise ships I have more encounters than I care for. I am getting actually good at talking them. In all cases they have turned to pass off my stern. They have been most kind. The two things I don't like is I/we the cruising community are fair game to entertain their passengers with. They seem to like to get real close than turn to avoid. Not for the faint heart. The second thing I hate is they get so close, I always ask for a meal to to be dropped over the side. This time I asked for a hot fudge sundae. They have never replied with any of my request. :captain:


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Melrna said:


> I have been told by old salts that the winds in the Windward Islands have been stronger over the last several years. The cold fronts coming off the USA don't get down here to much to lesson the trade winds. If they do only about 5 knots from what we have seen. The cold fronts do penetrate in the Leeward Islands like the BVI area. They get more relaxing wind relief than the Windward Islands.
> Now for a broader discussion, I would think heavy full displacement keel boat say 40-55,000 lbs or more of the 70,80,90's vintage take a lot more wind to move than the modern production boats like mine that weigh 25,000 lbs fully loaded. Furthermore, since we are sailing the "HOUSE" vs a charter boat , we sail to keep the boat upright hence conservatively (reef sails). It is just our style, might not be yours.
> 
> The Colregs did work in my instance because I was the stand on vessel and the cruise ship did turn. Not only did he turned for me but also for the freighter. However, other parts of the regs worked against me like mass tonnage and ability to turn. But again the cruise ship did have the sea room to maneuver out of the way. Still, I am not a fan of looking at the bow wave of a BAB (Big Ass Boat) heading my way. I could turn 90 to port and lay up. That was plan B. He would have missed me by 1000 feet according to AIS. I was only 5 miles off the coast of St Lucia when all this happen near the port of Castries. Since Moondance is a magnet for cruise ships I have more encounters than I care for. I am getting actually good at talking them. In all cases they have turned to pass off my stern. They have been most kind. The two things I don't like is I/we the cruising community are fair game to entertain their passengers with. They seem to like to get real close than turn to avoid. Not for the faint heart. The second thing I hate is they get so close, I always ask for a meal to to be dropped over the side. This time I asked for a hot fudge sundae. They have never replied with any of my request. :captain:


Thanks for this post. As I haven't sailed down there for several decades it sounds as if there has been a lot of changes. I don't even recall cruise ships in the Windwards except in Philipsberg, St Maarten, but I am sure there had to be more than what I saw. The french has sailing cruise ships.

I keep the boat heeled no more than 15°.. 20° I am making too much leeway. Lots of heeling get uncomfortable if truth be told. Definitely sounds windier!


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

Melrna said:


> The cruise ship and freighter squeeze is hard to explain without a photo. ( I have it but can never figure out how to post photos here). Basically the cruise ship was on my forward port beam heading on an intercept course, the freighter was just behind me 1/2 mile away on my starboard side. I had already turned 60 degrees to port to avoid him when the cruise ship 20 mins later became a problem. Wind was 50 degrees off my starboard. It was either lay-up or have the cruise ship turn 10 degrees to pass off my stern, which he did. That cruise ship was also a problem for the said freighter because I heard them chat also. When the other 3 cruise ship came over the horizon and 2 more freighters also showed up it became quite the show. They were mostly talking on channel 9 and 14.
> 
> .


We have run across this multiple times crossing or in TSS in the Carib and Med and Black Sea. We always pick up the radio and call and we work it out. We all want to be safe and I could care less what ColReg says that I am the stand on vessel he is bigger and I am vulnerable - therefore we call - Only one time did the bid guy say sorry I can't move because he had issues too. At times have had worked our way though 3-4 vessels coming at us from various direction and we talk with all and everyone works it out. And when we are close to the wind we tell them we can move X deg but then will have to start our engine and they understand and worked with us. 
Communications is the key - In fact funny story we were crossing the end of the Mona and had just come out of a rain storm and another on the horizon and cruise ship was coming at us and we were reefed down and I called the ship and said we are undersail at 50deg on the wind but could move if he wanted us to. He said yes I see you and said maintain course and position and he turned and we passed starboard to starboard and just before the pass he asked us a lot of info like where we came from - going to - we guessed he was giving his passengers a briefing so we gave him a complete run down - SoulMates got a lot of pics of her taken that day - OH and we apologized for not having full sails up as we were headed to the next rain storm - he laughed and said he understood --
All the big guys we deal with have been great an understand and work with us. COMMUNICATIONS is the key


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

I mentioned the pilots earlier and yes it seems more windy. Seems in the windwards there’s more south to the usual easteries. Usual is E or ENE. Having any south means a beat for us. 
I’m struck how different the sailing is in the windwards compared with the leewards like st Martin or st Thomas. Much windier and a lot more seas between islands. Repetitive run into to very large cruise ships that are square rigged and several pure motor cruise ships as well. Have taken to dropping sails short after getting in the lee of an island when there’s any cruise ships around and going so that harbor approaches are a 90 degree turn. 
Usually leave triple reefed. Then drop back to double reefed if conditions permit. Have had only a few hours of single reefed and that was in the lee of Dominica. Have yet to fly the Genoa nor seen a full main. Downwind sails are never going to be used. To dangerous as wind gusts are dramatic. Agree with M much better to accept being underpowered and do 6s or low 7s. Find unlike my old prior full keeled tayana do need enough sail to stay above 6 as then the ride improves significantly. 
Talking with other cruisers with more years down here it’s gotten windier. We’re in Rodney Bay at present. Both Moorings and Sunsail have a presence on our dock. Previously was in Jolly and there were charter boats there as well. Seems those folks quickly learn to sail conservatively as well and also will see them with bare poles or just a steady sail amount up and powering going either north or south. That tactic may make sense on a new to them boat.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

outbound said:


> I mentioned the pilots earlier and yes it seems more windy. Seems in the windwards there's more south to the usual easteries. Usual is E or ENE. Having any south means a beat for us.
> I'm struck how different the sailing is in the windwards compared with the leewards like st Martin or st Thomas. Much windier and a lot more seas between islands. Repetitive run into to very large cruise ships that are square rigged and several pure motor cruise ships as well. Have taken to dropping sails short after getting in the lee of an island when there's any cruise ships around and going so that harbor approaches are a 90 degree turn.
> Usually leave triple reefed. Then drop back to double reefed if conditions permit. Have had only a few hours of single reefed and that was in the lee of Dominica. Have yet to fly the Genoa nor seen a full main. Downwind sails are never going to be used. To dangerous as wind gusts are dramatic. Agree with M much better to accept being underpowered and do 6s or low 7s. Find unlike my old prior full keeled tayana do need enough sail to stay above 6 as then the ride improves significantly.
> Talking with other cruisers with more years down here it's gotten windier. We're in Rodney Bay at present. Both Moorings and Sunsail have a presence on our dock. Previously was in Jolly and there were charter boats there as well. Seems those folks quickly learn to sail conservatively as well and also will see them with bare poles or just a steady sail amount up and powering going either north or south. That tactic may make sense on a new to them boat.


Very interesting report and confirms what Melissa reported and that conditions are quite different from they were in the 90s at least. Have any "weather people" weighed on on this and the likely cause of the change in weather pattern that has apparently settled in?

Thanks for this post!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Interesting observations. Truth is, up to about 30 kts downwind, I'd prefer more to less wind. More options. Not a big fan of over 20 upwind, but can handle it.

I randomly pulled January's wind data off weather underground for the airport at Dominica. Roughly half way down the windwards?

Max daily high for the month was 34 kts, but it was only for one day. The next highest daily max was 21 kts. There were 17 days where the daily max did not exceed 10 kts. Their Dec, nor Feb had a single wind day max over 20kts.

Open water could very well be and often is different. I'm not aware of whether this is a protected airport. Still, I would love to figure out how to get a download of a massive amount of this data, so we could analyze the trend.

I'm truly interested in the data, I'm not trying to disprove the premise.

https://www.wunderground.com/history/monthly/dm/check-hall/TDCF/date/2019-1


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

There are areas between tall islands where there is a wind acceleration phenomena. I noticed this in the Canriies. And it was hard to NOT notice it because the wind jumped to 30 and above. In the lee of the islands the sailing was much calmer... wind and seas. I don't see why this would not happen in the Caribbean. Sure as you sail out from the wind shadow of an island/land mass you would expect to see higher winds.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm sure they would be higher away from land, although, I expect somewhat proportional to wind at these airports over time. I looked further into the Dominica airport which is on the northeast coast and I would think could be fully exposed to prevailings. Did not check topography. The question I'm intrigued over is whether there is any weather data to support the notable increase we're reading about.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

SanderO said:


> Does anyone here use pilot charts? Are they periodically updated? Have the trade winds changed in magnitude and direction over time? After reading posts which report about winds in the Caribbean on this site over the past few years my impression having been down there for 4 years back in the early 90s is that winds are not stronger and with more gusts. I write this because I used to sail full hoist virtually all the time yet some write they are usually setting one reef down there lately .


This is all I could find,



> The information used to compile these averages was obtained from oceanographic and meteorologic observations over many decades during the late 18th and 19th centuries.


https://msi.nga.mil/NGAPortal/MSI.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=msi_portal_page_62&pubCode=0003

Cornell and son have developed new charts based on sat data.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Doyle talks about sailing in a Windward lee of some island, forget which. Anyway he says the tall mountains create a Windward shadow because the winds are trying to get up over the mountains. I’ve not experienced it myself.

As to acceleration effect, that I have experienced. Andnits part of why I keep a reef even in light air. Last year we were ghosting along some island and all of a sudden got hit with 35 or so knots, knocked the boat over hard and she turned into he wind. Bugger if a few minutes. It was like an instant walk of wind. And I didn’t see it in the water beforehand. A catamaran sailed a few hundred yards inside of us and they were all standing on the rail wondering what we were doing. Apparently they had much less wind.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

One recent development on the cruise ship front is there appearance in small ports and anchorages. 

We had a Windjammer and small regular cruise ship anchored out at Deshaies in Guadeloupe. 

3 anchored out in Bequia is not unusual.

This of course totally overwhelms the supply of taxis and tour buses


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Open water is different. Wind speeds are higher. Compression effect is seen at both ends of the islands. Commonly more severe at north end. Have taken to putting in an additional reef before approaching or leaving the end of an island. 
Seas are a whole different thing. There’s reflection and bending effects at the ends of the islands making for an occasion much bigger sea and more confused seas. Still the major effect is between the islands is the fetch given a sea can start off Southern Europe and North Africa and get to you. 2-3 meters is quite common irrespective of wind strength but of course with steady trades it’s on the higher side. The other effect is moon phase as it drives the current down here. In general one tries to avoid wind against wave so avoid when current is running with any west to it. 
The usual wind pattern is more south (ESE) in the spring and more E to ENE in the fall. I’m told this pattern is more mixed in recent years. I note we’ve had days with some south to the wind. 
In our other cruising ground in the past Mass Bay would be nothing but light air during the late summer. Again in recent years this pattern hasn’t been apparent.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

We can do half wind speed or better down wind. Our hull speed is 8.4. Higher wind speeds means higher wind waves and wind waves not aligned with the swell is unpleasant. Have no interest in seeing anything ever past 20kts. Fixing things or replacing them do to wear is expensive and difficult. Quality is variable. Unfortunately, >20kts is very common to the point it’s nearly the norm to see it at least part of a day daily.
Upwind similar thinking holds. Especially given the higher apparent wind. So most pleased to see under 15 it’s. Haven’t had a day yet when it’s been less than 15kts.
Thinking is different. Runs are fairly short (under 70m). Much better off doing mid 6s, not breaking anything and having a reasonable ride.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I sure understand the relative impact of waves and wind (wave period too), but I'm curious to start with the premise that wind has increased and by how much. That's been hard enough to objectively quantify. Again, I'm not trying to disprove, I'm trying to quantify and see if there are new patterns one would need to or could account for. 

I've found a number of French weather stations in the windwards, but they're all offline. I'll keep looking, but not right now. 

As far as RI sound, the Bays, Islands, etc, I still see dominantly light winds in late summer. I would say that I see more occasional good wind days than in the past. Again, this is based upon the narrow weather windows I'm actually sailing within. I still find myself ghosting on the Bay in late summer, as I don't feel like motoring offshore.

I've developed a sensitivity to not wanting to land my slip in north winds at 20 kts or more. It used to be a challenge, but I'm more risk adverse as I age. I generally won't go now, or will stay out long, if I need to come back in those conditions. I've actually noticed fewer of them each summer. Again, I think this is anecdotal. On the other hand, it seems to be that the weather patterns have not been as routinely repetitive as they were a decade ago. A cold front passing from west to east periodically was the norm, unless blocked offshore. They seem to be mixed, stationary and occluded more often now. I'm interested in the data. I think these patterns are more to the point than actual wind speed, but I really don't know how to quantify them.

I think it was last Spring that I was on a run from Block Island back to the Bay, downwind at 30 kts. Following seas too, est 7ish feet, comfortable enough period. Nothing but a heavily reefed jib. The sail was glorious. The third week of July, I crossed the Gulf of Maine in 25kts, with very tight 7ft seas more up on the beam and it was miserable.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

FWIW and IMHO its way to early to feel significant effects of climate change in our likely sailing grounds. Now as you go further and further North then you may find some. My summertime grounds are around 50N, but things are so variable year to year it’s impossible for me to say. Decade to decade the changes are more visible. But you really need to look over a couple of decades to be clear.

2 years ago I had to delay launching because I had an iceberg grounded on my mooring spot. Last summer we often could not sit on the porch in the afternoon, too hot. Thermometer said 104 but I don’t believe it. Variability is change.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The one thing we need to be very scientifically careful of is confirmation bias. Doesn't matter what one's belief or suspicion or hypothesis may be, the appearance of anything that confirms it will carry more weight in the mind than normal. It's human. Need data. 

The other bias I have is that we all get more risk adverse as we age. Some would say that's how we got away with aging. There is a silly saying in the pilot community. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but there are no old and bold pilots. 

I recall the first time I flew an aircraft that was certified to fly in ice. I intentionally chose an altitude (11,000 ft - I recall this flight to this day, even though it was a long, long time ago), in the clouds and in the dark. I had plenty of outs, as it was ice free above and below. I wanted to see these magic systems work. I wouldn't make that choice today if you paid me. Ice is to be avoided and quickly transited, not tempted.


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

Melrna said:


> The Colregs did work in my instance because I was the stand on vessel and the cruise ship did turn. Not only did he turned for me but also for the freighter. However, other parts of the regs worked against me like mass tonnage and ability to turn. But again the cruise ship did have the sea room to maneuver out of the way. Still, I am not a fan of looking at the bow wave of a BAB (Big Ass Boat) heading my way. I could turn 90 to port and lay up. That was plan B. He would have missed me by 1000 feet according to AIS. I was only 5 miles off the coast of St Lucia when all this happen near the port of Castries. Since Moondance is a magnet for cruise ships I have more encounters than I care for. I am getting actually good at talking them. In all cases they have turned to pass off my stern. They have been most kind. The two things I don't like is I/we the cruising community are fair game to entertain their passengers with. They seem to like to get real close than turn to avoid. Not for the faint heart. The second thing I hate is they get so close, I always ask for a meal to to be dropped over the side. This time I asked for a hot fudge sundae. They have never replied with any of my request. :captain:


On Page 8 of my post is a screenshot of the conflict (Thanks Donna). The cruise ship has already turned 10 degrees to starboard. I am about 4 miles off the coast of St Lucia near the port of Castries (where all the cruise ships and freighters dock). You can see a pink "V" on the chartplotter where the entrance lies. If one looks at my track I turned to port to avoid the freighter. Also one can see the X-track error of my rhumb line due to current pushing me out to sea. (The rhumb line is the black line next to the freighter near the coast). I am 7.5 NM from Rodney Bay my destination.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

The issue of confirmation bias is quite relevant as is sampling bias. As is error from the mean and scatter. A series of anecdotal reports isn’t proof and I accept that. However, the anecdotes are in line with the major reports on climate change. 
Another anecdote. My freezer used to shut off periodically when set at 12f while in the tropics. Now needs to be at 18f to shut off. Makes me think the water is warmer. I used to snorkel all day in comfort. Now need a water shirt. Meaningless reports scientifically. Meaningful as a quality of life measure.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

outbound said:


> ....However, the anecdotes are in line with the major reports on climate change.....


If you could point me to one that claims the Caribbean will get windier in the winter, I would be truly interested. I have plans to be there most winters for the next 15 or so years.

Most I've read have made generic predictions of changing global weather patterns, but have not suggested these would be notable everywhere, in the present time period. Last I recall, there has been very little sea temp change in the tropics and little anticipated. Even globally, one could not perceive the 1 degree average change, just by running their freezer. You know there is more to that one. 

I also note pattern changes, but I also read these reports, therefore, expect to see them. Kinda my point.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

The trades in the leewards are modulated by what comes off US coast but this effect does next to nothing to the trades in the windwards. The trades are part of the North Atlantic gyre system being driven by temperature ( therefore pressure) differences on this quadrant of the earth. Local water temperature is not the major significant driver to my limited understanding. With more energy in the entire system more wind and more weather events throughout the system


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

Minnewaska said:


> If you could point me to one that claims the Caribbean will get windier in the winter, I would be truly interested. I have plans to be there most winters for the next 15 or so years.
> 
> Most I've read have made generic predictions of changing global weather patterns, but have not suggested these would be notable everywhere, in the present time period. Last I recall, there has been very little sea temp change in the tropics and little anticipated. Even globally, one could not perceive the 1 degree average change, just by running their freezer. You know there is more to that one.
> 
> I also note pattern changes, but I also read these reports, therefore, expect to see them. Kinda my point.


All one has to do is google, sea temp raise to see that sea temperatures are raising hence more violent Hurricanes in the past 10 years down here. Unless you don't believe in science which there are plenty that do not. 
https://eos.org/research-spotlights/sea-surface-temperatures-on-the-rise-in-the-caribbean Just one such article. With sea temperature raise comes climate change. It is what I believe, your mileage may vary.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

https://eos.org/research-spotlights/sea-surface-temperatures-on-the-rise-in-the-caribbean

Mark


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Curious about main sail handling systems. In Rodney for a few days. Cat next to me has been spending several days sorting out his in boom system. It’s the Australian version of leisure furl. Boat three down in the other direction spending the same amount of time sorting out his in mast. Think it’s a Selden. 
One of the shocks in my sparcraft boom vang failed so chatted up the rigging shop. He likes in boom and in mast but that may be to the work generated. Still, a lot of 50’ and up boats in here being sailed by mom and pop. Those systems must surely help handling those large main sails. 
Wonder if in other windy places (SF, bay of Biscay etc.) furling systems take more of a beating or it has to do with mandrills or getting the tensions right on two different lines simultaneously.
Only experience i’ve had has been negative but they continue to be quite appealing as reefing and unstriking reefs quickly by yourself would be great. At present go to a reach and pull string but it takes me a few minutes. although I have powered winches have learned to do it by hand due to less risk of screwing up.
Reason I ask about this is to determine if cruisers in the Caribbean should avoid these conveniences.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Thanks for the articles. Other than the headline, it wasn't very informative.. It just makes a claim and doesn't even say by how much. I've found the citation, which is a brutal read, but I'm on my second pass. It says 15 thousandths of a degree per year and it makes correlation to precipitation rates. It also seems the Caribbean is somewhat unique from general equitorial experience, which is exactly what I was asking. It may even be warming fast than global averages.

I certainly understand the inter-dynamics of these variables. Ironically, I read the 'if you believe in science' retort as a preloaded argument, if anyone even appears not to be at the alter by asking questions. I'm no denier. I'm trying to understand, because I assume we're doomed. I just hope to pull off my retirement plan first.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

I think you are “safe” in that you will die of something else first. Now what that something else might be and how closely it’s lurking are interesting questions! My bet is our life expenfancey here is better than it was there.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Melrna said:


> All one has to do is google, sea temp raise to see that sea temperatures are raising hence more violent Hurricanes in the past 10 years down here. Unless you don't believe in science which there are plenty that do not.
> https://eos.org/research-spotlights/sea-surface-temperatures-on-the-rise-in-the-caribbean Just one such article. With sea temperature raise comes climate change. It is what I believe, your mileage may vary.


Oops, I didn't see your post when I linked to the same article. Sorry.

Mark


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Well based on purely empirical data the sea is a little warmer and the winter winds are a little less ferocious 

The 'Christmas winds' were not as long or as strong as they have been in the past.

Life in the Caribbean is good.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Where are you?
It’s interesting that some would say both kite season and Xmas winds have disappeared just like the shoulder seasons have gotten all mixed up on the east coast.
With more weather coming off the east coast there are more opportunities for the trades to be blocked. 
I’ve thought Xmas winds were a manifestation of settled weather on the east coast so nothing was blocking the trades. Therefore the leewards saw the same wind strengths as the windwards during those times. Would appreciate a more knowledgeable explanation from someone with more expertise.
I did use the Genoa up there but it hasn’t been unrolled yet down here given it hasn’t been necessary.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Where am I ? currently in Guadeloupe having just completed a circumnavigation [of Guadeloupe].

I spend my time wandering from Trinidad to St Marten.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

For those cruising the windwards all winter (or year for that matter), what works with respect to Customs and Immigration? I've never had to clear more than 2 countries on any given trip. I'm trying to imagine what it's like to have to clear at almost every island one hops to. I'm curious about fees, but more curious about the hassle. I was just watching a vlog of a boat that left one island, got 100 miles away on another and realized they needed to go back fro something. The vlog didn't mention clearing out from where they were and back into where they had just left, then out again. I wonder how many flaunt the rules, which is not my style.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Sailclear and eclear have made things easier. The French islands are a breeze as you go to a computer (usually in a chandlery) and fill out a form. Save your print out and copy it for the next one so you don’t have to deal with the weird French to English translations. You are clearing into France with those. Found windwards much easier than leewards. Worst was BVIs. Went back and forth from USVI and St. Martin. Every time we reentered BVI cost was different. 
Cost isn’t a concern in the windwards. Trivial c/w leewards. Will have to “import” boat to St.Lucia for $30 US as we’ll be off the boat for a few weeks. 
Have learned to clear out the day before wherever you are. It’s good for 24h so allows you to leave at the time of day you want. Usually leave at dawn or earlier so don’t want to wait for offices to open. Sometimes leave at dusk in order to make landfall at dawn or mid day. Then clear morning of leaving. 
Would suggest buying all your curtesy flags at once. Would suggest being spot on about using your Q flag. Have heard horror stories concerning those who tried to game out of clearing.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> For those cruising the windwards all winter (or year for that matter), what works with respect to Customs and Immigration? I've never had to clear more than 2 countries on any given trip. I'm trying to imagine what it's like to have to clear at almost every island one hops to. I'm curious about fees, but more curious about the hassle. I was just watching a vlog of a boat that left one island, got 100 miles away on another and realized they needed to go back fro something. The vlog didn't mention clearing out from where they were and back into where they had just left, then out again. I wonder how many flaunt the rules, which is not my style.


I presume things have changed. When I was floating about done there in the 90s I would clear in and stay for a spell. But I often did not clear in if I had recently and was doing an overnight before heading on to another island... island hopping. Probably illegal but that is what I did. I spent a lot of time in English Harbor but was away for months at a time and so I did clear back in when I returned. If I sailed to Deshais for the weekend I didn't clear out or back in.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

outbound said:


> ....Worst was BVIs. Went back and forth from USVI and St. Martin. Every time we reentered BVI cost was different......


Thanks for the run down. All good to hear.

You are spot on with the BVIs. Not only a different price each time, but the regression line it clearly pointing upward. I cleared in this winter, with a crew of 4 on a 51ft boat. $465. Two years ago, I recall something in the $200 range.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SanderO said:


> .....If I sailed to Deshais for the weekend I didn't clear out or back in.


I get the sense that some still practice this, but it sounds like a huge risk.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Deshais has the best clear in - you go to a bar, get a drink, and spend 5min on their computer. I can't imagine any reason to skip that.

Mark


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

The French coastiess make periodic visits to the anchorages and they have an uptodate list of boats that have cleared in.

They take a very dim view of any boat 'yellow flagging' through the islands.

One boat that was caught recently had a big fine 5,000 euros I think and a fairly unpleasant time.

Antigua is another island that polices arrivals sternly and woe betide a crew that goes to the bar before the skipper gets the paperwork done.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TQA said:


> ...They take a very dim view of any boat 'yellow flagging' through the islands.


I hadn't heard the term, but I assume you mean some will just drop anchor, fly the Q flag, but depart prior to ever checking in. That does make me wonder how one technically manages day hopping. You pull in the anchorage, after C&I closes, but plan to depart before it reopens. If one never departs their vessel, is this a violation to fly the Q flag, but never check in? I think it still is. You've arrived and are obligated to check in the moment your anchor touches bottom.



> ...and woe betide a crew that goes to the bar before the skipper gets the paperwork done.


The kids we all went to grade school with, that never thought the rules applied to them, grow up and still don't. I've had crew that wanted to do this, thinking it was no more than cutting a line at an amusement park. Thankfully, they listened.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I suppose the authorities arriving in the evening in a harbor and seeing a yellow flag can interview those on board and direct them to clear in when the office opens and noting the boat's name, captain and so on to forward to C&I. If the don't clear in and they are never seen again not much one can do... nor actually much harm unless they are partying at a bar after the coasties leave.

Obviously authorities can't be everywhere at once and who would want that anyway? Obviously there needs to be some sort of honor system and most will respect the laws.

Take a hypothetical situation. Boat is on its way down island an is very low on fuel and water and wants to stop just to top off their tanks. It seems crazy to have to clear in and out and pay hefty fees just to top off fuel and water. So if said boat comes into ties up with yellow flag tops up and the coasties are docked say near by thinking they are going to immediately clear in and they simply sail off... what would they do? They observed the vessel arrive, top off and depart. Technically a violation... but would they cite the boat? or give them some sort of warning on that they should have topped off at their last port?

I think stopping to sleep and moving on, no landing anyone ashore while technically unlawful should not be punished.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SO, I'm not so sure. Would it be okay for a foreign vessel to pop into a dock in NYC just to top up fuel and water, then leave and pop into Philly, do the same and leave, etc, etc, all the way down the coast, without ever checking in?


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

If you are flying the “Q” my understanding is:
You have 24 hours to clear. 
No one leaves the boat or has interaction with land until after you go into clear first. In order to get duty free fuel you usually need to show your clearing out paperwork. Islands vary in whether they will allow more than the captain to get off the boat to do so. Rules change so check. We both go in but (for once) wife stays quiet and only I go to the counter. So far never had an issue except in BVI Road Town but not in the other BVI ports of entry. 

Given this understanding I believe it is OK to anchor, catch a few hours of sleep, then move on. As long as you’ve had NO interaction with land. It isn’t ok to pick up fuel, water, or food within that 24 hours. People do this nap time quickie to bypass St.Vincent.

I had occasion to enter BVI coming from Marigot. I needed to be on a slip to get a outboard engine. I wasn’t allowed to tie up to the slip until I went back out, anchored, and cleared. BVI is a PIA.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Should note if you are getting duty free fuel discount is 15% or better so clearing in/out is usually cheaper for average cruising boat carrying 150-250g. 
Customs is usually near where fuel is. As is water. Provisioning is a whole different beast and varies greatly.
Customs and immigration does look or ask for your last port of call and when you left. If you left BVI and entered Trinidad with no clearances in between or something similar pretty sure it would raise eyebrows.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I've tied to Fuel dock at the Antigua shipyard rather than anchor... and dinked over to customs to clear in. Not a problem. We were taking on fuel an water while I cleared in. I have slept over without going to land with the Q flag an a number of occasions. Never had a problem. Times may have changed.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

A charter boat arrived in Jolly Harbour Antigua after customs and immigration office hours. The bars and restaurants were open and a stones throw away and everyone went ashore. When the skipper went to clear in next morning he faced a grilling, had to go to see the head of immigration in St Johns and was fined $2000 US. This was about three years ago. The boat was also held but not immobilised for 2 days. 

Some years back a Dutchman with a recent good looking Bene was asked for his papers in Trinidad. He had arrived with his dog in Antigua and had sailed South from there with his dog stopping at each island but never clearing in or out. He was arrested his dog put into quarantine and I believe eventually deported back to Holland but I am not certain this was the outcome. The cruising community was more concerned with the dog's future than the skipper. 

Another skipper has just spent 6 months in a Trini jail for having firearms on board, one was a miniature cannon and the other a black powder muzzle loader. 

Think how you would be treated in the USA if you were found sailing in their waters and carrying firearms without having cleared in.


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## FloridaBoy (May 4, 2014)

Good reading. Havent been, yet. Here is a good link for PILOT CHARTS> 
Pilot charts
Kevin


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

A few weeks ago I arrived in Dehais late, could find no reasonable anchorage, so I anchored a couple of miles South at Ferry Point beach. Police boat came by and checked on us. I told him my stor and said I would clear in in the am. OK.

In St Eustis (sp?) we were boarded by the Dutch CG who asked for all our papers and did a safety inspection. Gave us a warning for out of date flares and fire extinguishers.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

FloridaBoy said:


> Good reading. Havent been, yet. Here is a good link for PILOT CHARTS>
> Pilot charts
> Kevin


Kevin -WOW -- THANKS and yea I am yelling -- we were looking for something like this and you made our search easy - we are leaving Egypt some time in late May headed north and a lot of the folks say no no go east via Greece then Corinth Canal instead of sailing into the wind -

With you help we just saw we got 30% north winds and then some westerlies so as long as we don't leave on a north wind we got a great shot at a 800nm sail without the wind on our nose -

Let's hear it for data over maybeees .

Thanks


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Have a question.
Boats going to be hauled at Clarke’s Court In Grenada on May 31th. My USCG documentation expires May 31 th.
Between then and now I’ll be in the states for 2 weeks. Leaving the boat in St. Lucia.
I go to the web and it says.
You can renew your documentation for multiple years.
If you renew earlier then 60 days they will move up the date for renewals to match the month you requested renewal.
We have a US mailing address but no way to get the actual physical paper when in the Caribbean.
When you attempt to renew on the internet the only option is one year although the instructions say you can do multiple years. The pay.gov doesn’t allow it.
The government site says you can get expedited renewal but gives no way to do it via web.
Has anyone run into this problem?
How did you handle it.
Phone calls direct you to the website. No live human voice.
Argggg....


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Can't you have the certificate/renewal send to your address in the States and have someone forward it to you at a Caribbean Address c/o boat yard. broker etc.? What is the issue... someone asks for the current certificate and you have to tell them it was renewed and you are waiting for it in the mail? Reproduce the order / and payment and show it to the official.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Out, I just renewed my USCG documentation. It also expires in May, but I renewed in March. I did not notice, until your post made me look, but the new Doc now says it expires in April. That sucks. 

For what it's worth, it took 6 days for my new doc to arrive in the mail, with no expedited request. 

There is no clear option for multiple years, but in another thread (I can't find it right now), someone indicated how to request multiple years for your Doc. Something like putting it in the comment section or just paying too much and they know what to do. Weird. My hesitancy for doing so is some language that says they are not refundable. I couldn't tell if that meant you sell your boat and lose the remainder. May be worth it, in your situation. 

If you're hauling before it expires, what's the big deal anyway? Just bring the new one back down with you. Sad to hear you won't have a boat up north this summer.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

When you leave a boat in a yard or marina they want to see
Insurance 
Documentation 
Most wont accept anything but originals not photo copies.
Most want to see they are valid for the period the vessel is on their premises.
Some islands require you temporarily “import” the boat for the period of time you aren’t physically on the boat. I did this yesterday in St.Lucia in preparation for leaving for just a couple of weeks.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Just check into Grenada before May 31. Once in, and hauled out, the CG documentation is meaningless until checking out again, or checking into a new country.

So you have lots of time to renew your documentation before you return to the boat.

Mark


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

outbound said:


> ....Most want to see they are valid for the period the vessel is on their premises.......


That seems like an odd rule, when some boats down there stay on the hard for years, while being sold. If you're in a jam, you have plenty of time to get the boat renewed. You don't need the renewal notice, just go online to the NVDC and have at it. Perhaps there is someone at home who can fedex it down to a local post office or the marina, if you trust them.

edit: Is there a FedEx office on the island? That may be a good place to ship it for pickup.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

outbound said:


> When you attempt to renew on the internet the only option is one year although the instructions say you can do multiple years. The pay.gov doesn't allow it.


I saw the same thing last week when I renewed mine. I figure they just have not gotten the site updated to allow the multi year renewal. I read some other thread that you have to mail it in to do the multi year.

I figured they will have corrected next year and just went ahead and did my annual renewal online.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Can you have it mailed to your yard? That’s what we do at Grenada Marine. Unless you don’t have anyone to forward it.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

A bit off topic. I’ve been noticing that I keep running past the same boats in every anchorage. It got me thinking, just how many American/Canadian boats are actively cruising down here? I think it’s less than it seems. We come into a new harbor and see a bunch of boats and think “Wow, lots of folks cruising.” But a lot are locals/charters/Europeans. And then we keep seeing the same boats over and over again. 

I’m starting to think there are no more than maybe 300 in all the Eastern Caribbean, if you limit it to North Americans. 

Am I about right or way off?


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## Ritchard (Aug 15, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Mel, do you (or anyone else) ever use a bridle to pull the dinghy half way up the topside, via a mast halyard? Seems a common anti-theft approach.
> 
> I've never done it, rather I pull it up the davits, when I'm concerned. However, it is more of an exercise than I'd like and wonder if a bridle and halyard is quicker/easier.


I don't have davits. When I want to get the boat out of the water at night time I have the spin halyard preset at about 4 feet above decks, and I have an old mainsheet pulley system hooked to that that I use to haul the dinghy out. 6 good pulls on the mainsheet has the boat up level with the rail.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

hpeer said:


> A bit off topic. I've been noticing that I keep running past the same boats in every anchorage. It got me thinking, just how many American/Canadian boats are actively cruising down here? I think it's less than it seems. We come into a new harbor and see a bunch of boats and think "Wow, lots of folks cruising." But a lot are locals/charters/Europeans. And then we keep seeing the same boats over and over again.
> 
> I'm starting to think there are no more than maybe 300 in all the Eastern Caribbean, if you limit it to North Americans.
> 
> Am I about right or way off?


Yes, youre probably pretty right.

The Bahamas are very different, but south from there its not as many boats as we perceive.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Think it’s more than 300. Think there’s three populations.
Those going back and forth to North America or Europe.
Those going up and down from Grenada/Trinidad.
Those passaging through on the way to/from Panama or following the North Atlantic gyre.
Think each group may vary their travels by a week or two but basically travel as a herd. Think this is due to weather windows but also by the need to be out of the zone or on the hard by hurricane season or cross oceans in season. 
Agree I definitely saw the same boats over and over again in the leewards. And now the same in the windwards. Suspect it would be the same in the Bahamas of which I have limited experience. But also believe it’s three different clusters with a fourth cluster for true transients just passing through.
Hence, even not counting charters think it’s a lot more than 300. Hell, I have a whole draw committed to boat cards and I’m pretty antisocial.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Would say I’m struck by how few Americans there are given our numbers and proximity. Although there are much fewer Canadians then Americans Canadians seem to be in the Caribbean in equal numbers. Although Europe means crossing the Atlantic they seem to exceed the number of Americans. In short us Americans seem to be either wimps or caught up by other demands or not interested. Wonder what’s up with that. It’s not uncommon to see a young non American couple out cruising but an American young couple or family is rare.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Oh, and remember that boats completing a circumnavigation during any year are thought to be less than 100 total of all nationalities.


From speaking to Americans I do get the idea they prefer countries where everyone speaks English. Canadians often have a bit of French and are not so worried about going to Europe, but there is definitely fewer (outright) Canadian flags than US.

There is always some Scandinavian boat, often small boats with young couples on board, or the Halberg Rassy brigade.

Aussies are everywhere because we are drunk and looking for cheap beer.

French only go to places that speak French, but that includes a lot of the Caribbean and the Pacific.

But by the time any boat has done 2 full oceans (No, "crossing the Atlantic" is NOT Florida to Nassau!!) it doesn't matter what nationality they have, they're all cruisers and are likely to be good company in any anchorage and helpful to any boat with the slightest problem. 

Oh, and, ummmmm, yes, Americans still have the biggest flags. By far.



irateraft:


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Mark would you agree the French are the lease likely to mingle or to be helpful. This seems to strike me as true even when on a Spanish speaking island. Have found the Germans, Italians and even the Russians to be more engaging. So far the Aussies and kiwis are the friendliest. The Brits stiff but with a little effort become most pleasant when they realize you don’t want anything from them.
Gross exaggerations with many exceptions but feel the French are currently the “ugly Americans “.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

outbound said:


> Mark would you agree the French are the lease likely to mingle or to be helpful.


Yes. They are the most compartmentalised. They appear to have great fear of speaking English though they all learn it at school. They also believe the stuff about 'all French are arrogant' so they try desperately not to be arrogant by not interacting as much lol.

And there's a litany of theft stories in the Caribbean supposedly by French cruisers.

So yeah they're a bit behind the 8 ball compared to most countries.

In France they are the microcosm of their surrounding countries not to speak English fluently without fear.

But I like them a lot once the ice is broken. :grin


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

outbound said:


> Mark would you agree the French are the lease likely to mingle or to be helpful. This seems to strike me as true even when on a Spanish speaking island. Have found the Germans, Italians and even the Russians to be more engaging. So far the Aussies and kiwis are the friendliest. The Brits stiff but with a little effort become most pleasant when they realize you don't want anything from them.
> Gross exaggerations with many exceptions but feel the French are currently the "ugly Americans ".


I'm presently in Martinique. Been here 10 days.. Not seen one french cruiser be friendly.. Canadian yes, German yes, Swedish yes. American boats in over a 1000 boats here, only seen 3 with USA flagged. But that is just a quick look around as I dinghy past boats. Granted most boats here are charter boats. I think I found out why Lagoon and FP are making a killing. Dang there is ton of catamarans here.. I think the entire production line is here including the big boats over 65'.. 
La Marin has the biggest ship technical shops I have ever since to include Annapolis and Newport. These boys not only fix anything but know their craft.. Very impressive. Getting a lot of work done here to include new dinghy davit tower made. Total cost for a new Tower to include solar panel mounting and antenna array.... $3500...Will probably sell my old dinghy davits for about $500 so maybe total cost 3 boat bucks. 
Dinghy will get repair as well as my autopilot serviced. They fix things here not buy new and replace. 
Bad thing about the French islands,, French wine, French cooking, French Bread, French cheese- my waistline is not happy with me. I am becoming an addict. 
The town is very friendly vs the cruisers it seems. We try to speak French with a translator but everyone helps us. We like it here and St Anne.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Yup the French supermarkets are killer let alone the restaurants. Still compared to Italians, Cubans or islanders they remain clueless on how to make coffee. Found the same in Europe with the best coffee surprisingly in Greece and Denmark.


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