# Crew Etiquette



## Teleskier (Jul 25, 2011)

Looking for some feedback...

This past weekend I was scheduled to crew on sunday at a large regatta, having arrived a day earlier I inquired @ the registration table as to any boats looking for crew. They directed me to a 40.7 (nice boat, my first time on one) that was missing most of their regulars. I was assigned to trimming the headsail and in a race lost a winch handle overboard (in my defense it was during a last second ducking of a starboard where I had to scramble down from the high side rail ).

My question is what would be considered the proper etiquette in this situation?
Should I be expected to replace it...Should I offer with the expectation that the offer be accepted...offer with the expectation it be declined...should the skipper/owner release me from the liability by for example saying don't worry about it these things happen???

Feedback would be appreciated as I'm fairly new to the racing scene.

I've found who I'm pretty sure to be the owner on line and would like
to move expeditiously.

Thanks


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Offer to replace it (and be ready to). However, the owner will probably decline. 
I had a crew drop 2 handles overboard in the same race. After the second one I told him to replace it. 2 in one day is not cool, it's careless. I'm not careless with my crew's lives or equipment they bring, no sense to go throwing my stuff over the side. 

I still race with him, and he's a good guy, and I certainly appreciated him replacing the handle. I also like having him on board. It's a case by case thing. Since you were a stand-in crew, I'd at least offer. You were the one that dropped it!


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

Apologize and offer to replace with the expectation that the skipper will accept.

Things happen quickly in racing and you have to be prepared. Dropping the handle was your fault and you should take responsibility for it.


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## bobbylockes (Dec 20, 2010)

you are a substitute crew member, you were doing him a favour by being on the boat and you didn't cause the emergency ducking situation. you were doing your best to be part of the solution. I don't think you should feel obliged to replace it BUT then again it depends how much you value your reputation and whether you want to sail on his yacht or anybody elses yacht again! If you are after a permanent position on a boat then you need a good reputation, so don't make a fuss, offer to replace the handle. If he's a decent skipper he will refuse your offer - his lack of foresight caused that emergency ducking under another yacht that led to panic stations and the handle falling over board.

handles are very expensive. maybe the owner is insured.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

bobbylockes said:


> you are a substitute crew member, you were doing him a favour by being on the boat and you didn't cause the emergency ducking situation. you were doing your best to be part of the solution. I don't think you should feel obliged to replace it BUT then again it depends how much you value your reputation and whether you want to sail on his yacht or anybody elses yacht again! If you are after a permanent position on a boat then you need a good reputation, so don't make a fuss, offer to replace the handle. If he's a decent skipper he will refuse your offer - his lack of foresight caused that emergency ducking under another yacht that led to panic stations and the handle falling over board.


Right answer, wrong reason. Don't pretend to be someone you are not by artificially boosting your reputation. If you were out for a daysail that would be different but you were racing. Replace the handle because you know it is the right thing to do.

And I have been in plenty of emergency ducking situations that were not caused by lack of foresight. You are moving fast in close quarters and some people do not always play by the rules requiring quick maneuvers.

I have broken things on other folks boats and I always offer to replace. I broke it, I take responsibility. Period.

If he is a nice guy he may refuse or offer to split.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Do the right thing. Find the boat owner and send him a check. Crossing and ducking is all part of racing. Just because the helmsman dose a crash tack, doesn’t mean everybody is excused from hanging onto handles. Out here in Cali, “he who drops it, buys it”. I’m surprised no one mentioned it when you were helping put the boat away. Look at it from the perspective if you were the boat owner, Someone deep six’s a winch handle on your boat – wouldn’t you want him to pay for it?


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

I would buy the owner a drink at the first opportunity, apologize for the loss, and ask him what kind of handle he wanted. If he has any class at all he will accept the drink and decline the handle. If he accepts the offer of the handle you buy it for him.

I've paid for much more expensive losses on my boat than a winch handle.


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## bobbylockes (Dec 20, 2010)

I'm sailing in a regatta this weekend. My friend has a classic yacht and one hand-made bronze handle with the name of the yacht engraved in it. 
He said only yesterday he doesn't use it himself for risk of losing it. I'll be pulling in the jib sheet with my hands before the wind fills the sail. I wont be using the handle. I can't afford too!!!


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

SVAuspicious said:


> I would buy the owner a drink at the first opportunity, apologize for the loss, and ask him what kind of handle he wanted. If he has any class at all he will accept the drink and decline the handle. If he accepts the offer of the handle you buy it for him.
> 
> I've paid for much more expensive losses on my boat than a winch handle.


If I were the captain/owner, my crew breaks or drops something, I would never ask him to pay for it. It is an accident, sh*t happens. An apology is good enough for me.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

If I dropped the handle on someone else's boat, I would happily and quickly buy a replacement. Only discussion with the skipper would be about if he wanted an identical handle, or something equivalent.

If my crew dropped a handle on my boat, I would politely decline, but appreciate the offer. I would do my best to put the crew at ease that it was OK, and that mistakes happen. I would observe carefully to see if the crew was satisfied with that response, if not, and they insist, I would reluctantly allow them to compensate in some way up to the value of the handle.

Easy, really. Only hard part is being a careful observer.


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## Teleskier (Jul 25, 2011)

Thanks all for your input, my intention when I posted was to make contact and offer to replace/pay for new handle, I did apologize after we finished putting the boat away and
should have offered then. I guess I was feeling a bit miffed at being put in that situation,as he is a very seasoned racer and we were on that tack for quite a while and feel he could have warned his new trimmer a bit earlier and I would have been at the ready with the handle in place ready to retrim instead of having to scramble for it while he's screaming for me to "get that jib trimmed"...even if we could have crossed having me low for an extra minute wouldn't have hurt that much (seeing I'm just a waif of a man @ 185lbs :-] ). Still wouldn't feel right if I didn't offer, that $100 isn't in the budget if he accepts but ahhh well. Thanks all Fairwinds


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Teleskier – we’ve all been there. I have bought winch handles for other boats and I’ve had crew members buy them for me. All part of the circle of life. Other than the winch handle, how did you like the 40.7? A trio of them used to give us headaches going to the windward mark when I raced on an Aerodyne. They always looked good and have been on my personal “short list” of forty footers.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

Funny, on a larger boat I crew and do headsail/spin trim on, I bring a short throw handle from our boat. The ergonomics just work better when we trade spin trim/grinding on the cabin top secondaries. 

Teleskier, one thing about racing is, the larger the boats get, the more 'type A' the skipper is likely to be. The only thing that quiets a boat down is practice. Were you invited back? If so, then things aren't as bad in the skipper's eyes as you might think. Things happen quickly at times on race boats. It's just part of the show. One either gets used to it/get's a rush from it, or you quit. Some teleyer's like hucking and threading cliff bands, other's like groomers... same deal.


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

rockDAWG said:


> If I were the captain/owner, my crew breaks or drops something, I would never ask him to pay for it. It is an accident, sh*t happens. An apology is good enough for me.


I am with you on this. As Captain, I would never expect the crew to replace it. But if I were the crew, I would offer to replace it. Actions defined the man.


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## captainrizzo (Feb 24, 2008)

True story...When I lived in Michigan, I owned an Irwin 31 but crewed on a J/100 for racing. On a particularly rough night on Lake Michigan we were headed back to port after a race with following seas. I am the type to tidy up the boat best I can prior to getting back to the dock in order to hit the yacht club for dinner and drinks without a lot of fuss or delay. Between the following seas and a large power boat wake that we took on the beam, the only way I was able to keep my balance was to throw the winch handle overboard. Seriously! I am pretty nimble on my feet but this one instance, I had no choice! I immediatly turned to the J/100 owner and said "Alun, I just threw your winch handle in the drink!" He just looked at me, paused, and said "that happens!" I couldn't believe his calm response. Once we were tied up and the crew exited, we were walking down the dock together and I told him that I have every intention of replacing it. He said "not a chance."


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## Teleskier (Jul 25, 2011)

Hey puddinlegs...give me steep and deep and you can't slap the smile off this face  as for hucking cliffs well afraid I'm gettin a little old for that, a few decades ago different story. Not too long in the tooth to huck a good handle though.

I can see where your idea would work well as a 10" speedgrip seems a bit overkill for the task.

Your premise about personality type is well taken and understood. Even still if I, or anyone else for that matter, am already performing a task to the best of my ability one would think even a Type-A would learn over time that additional high decibel input at that moment isn't going to noticeably improve results.
In more cases than not, as in this one, it tends to have the reverse effect. That being said of course from the perspective of some one who owns an old ODay 30 as opposed to a newer B 40.7.

As for being invited back, it was known that I was already committed for the
following day and being we reside in different countries, the skips perspective will be a bit more difficult to ascertain. He was however quite gracious in his response to my offer to replace/reimburse in which he declined.

GeorgeB, with regards to the 40.7 it really sailed well and was surprisingly less complicated to lend a hand on then I was expecting. Everything was laid out well and most tasks could be accomplished with relative ease even for a newbie. Below decks was very nice for a "racer".

Any way thanks all for the feedback, it was an interesting exercise as the responses both in this forum as well as here locally seemed to be split right down the middle.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

You are all obviously good people.

Makes me happy.

Thanks.


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## mikehoyt (Nov 27, 2000)

I am feeling a bit contrary today for some reason ...

I am glad to hear that both offered to replace it and that the skipper declined to accept your offer. If he did otherwise I would think very badly of him. I guess the best advice is to address this immediately after the race so you know that it is done. I am certain the skipper was very appreciative of your offer even though he declined.

We have lost several winch handles overboard during races and most of them were the floating ones. You never go back for them. We have also broken winch handles and other gear.

Never have I ever asked any crew to replace something lost or broken during a race. I would think that to be rude. It is very bizarre but it seems that when things break / get lost during a race most owners/skippers are extremely calm and just assess how to get along without the missing / broken equipment. The next week when going to the chandlery is a bit less pleasant but we all love buying things for our boats.

You did the right thing.

The skipper did the right thing.

Glad to hear you enjoyed the 40.7 - pretty boats.


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## CalypsoP35 (Jul 24, 2006)

GeorgeB said:


> Look at it from the perspective if you were the boat owner, Someone deep six's a winch handle on your boat - wouldn't you want him to pay for it?


Absolutely not! I am a boat owner, race with crew, one time a crew lost a winch handle overboard, as soon as it happened I told him don't worry about it, sh*t happens, things break, go overboard. It's part of the risk of owning the boat. If it happened a second time, I might get a little pissed and tell him he is paying if a third one goes overboard. The captain is responsible for the actions of his crew.

You should have shown remorse for your action when it occurred and the captain should have put you at ease by telling you not to worry about it.


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## justified (Jun 14, 2007)

Teleskier
Well It sounds as thou things worked out, you offered and the skipper/captain declined. Which IMHO is what he should have done any way. Racing is a risky sport (even wed night beer can races) that the owner/captain has to except when he does it. Things break and sh*t happens. The boat I race on we the crew could not afford to be crew if we had to replace everything that broke or got lost over the yrs, not to say we do all chip in to the boat whenever we can and what we can afford and the owner is very grateful.
I had a similar situation on a fishing trip once... long story short I broke a rod, offered to replace when we got back owner refused. When I got back home I went out and found a similar rod and had is shipped. You could do the same maybe not the exact handle but similar or even just a *nice* bottle of Merlot. If you don't have an address send it to the boat threw the marina they will get it to the owner/skipper.
Sounds like you had some great days of sailing. Fair winds. Peter


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