# Advice on hailing port for USCG Documentation



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I know that it is permissible to select any town in the US or territories. I am thinking of putting my town of residence, which is landlocked. Even though this is allowed, are there any considerations that might make it preferable to pick an actual waterfront location?


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

I've always wondered why a hailing port that is obviously impossible to sail from be lettered on a boat. Must get tired of the "did you really sail from ___?" question. But maybe it's a good way to meet new people.

I left the previous hailing port letters on my previous sailboat after purchase. During USCG safety inspection they didn't seem to notice or care. It was a good conversation starter as for years people would walk or dinghy to the boat and ask for the previous owner. Great way to meet old friends 

Maybe on my next boat I'll put Dodge City, Kansas on the back.


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## cshrimpt (Jun 8, 2015)

The name of a documented boat is a combination of the boat's name and its hailing port. The hailing port can be anywhere in the US or territories so long as it's a real place. If you want to name your boat "Sea Spray" with "Boston, MA" as the hailing port, but there is already a Sea Spray from Boston, then you have to pick a different name or hailing port.

This is why the CG insists the name and hailing port be visible together on the hull. Technically, they should be physically together, but as long as both name and port can be seen at the same time, they will not complain.

Shrimp


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

TakeFive said:


> Even though this is allowed, are there any considerations that might make it preferable to pick an actual waterfront location?


Only consideration might be, as mentioned, if you want to avoid questions like, "Are you really from Podunk, Nebraska?"

I have also heard some people say that if you pick a town in California, then the California taxing authorities might try to get some money out of you. If you didn't buy the boat there, and don't keep it there, they are not entitled to a penny, but it might be an annoyance you want to avoid.

Other than that, though, nope. There are no pros or cons, either way, to picking any place at all that you might like.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

denverd0n said:


> Only consideration might be, as mentioned, if you want to avoid questions like, "Are you really from Podunk, Nebraska?"
> 
> I have also heard some people say that if you pick a town in California, then the California taxing authorities might try to get some money out of you. If you didn't buy the boat there, and don't keep it there, they are not entitled to a penny, but it might be an annoyance you want to avoid.
> 
> Other than that, though, nope. There are no pros or cons, either way, to picking any place at all that you might like.


The one exception to this is if you are trying to force your own residency to another state, say Texas or the USVI where there is no income tax, having the boat registered in that state allows you to claim any time on the boat as time spent 'in' that jurisdiction. I know a number of people who have used the location of the boats registration as additional evidence of a change in domicile for tax reasons.

But generally no, it has zero effect on anything.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I chose Due West SC because it looked good on the boat, nothing more. Never been there and the boat couldn't get there.
denverd0n is spot on on the tax thing, but I think every state will try that one on if they have excise tax on boats. I know Cal did with me, hassling me for years over a classic with lovely name boards saying San Francisco, Ca that hadn't been in the state since I'd owned it. Charleston city asks for their pound of flesh every year, but being an expat resident, after an email exchange, they desist.
USCG reports documented boats to their state of registry each year and the tax guys walk the docks making lists and checking them twice! I've never heard anything about having only one boat registered under a name in each place.


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## capt jgwinks (Sep 24, 2013)

I think the restriction on duplicate names/ports is for commercial vessels only. There are too many pleasure craft to worry about it. I have heard the UK does limit it though.
There's got to be a dozen boats named "Passing Wind" here in Muskegon, I've got to assume a few of them are documented.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

capta said:


> USCG reports documented boats to their state of registry each year and the tax guys walk the docks making lists and checking them twice! I've never heard anything about having only one boat registered under a name in each place.


 Do they also report the state of residency of the owner? I would think that they would do that also, but no facts to back it up. What is the purpose of their reporting this?


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

That residency issue is interesting, Stumble. One would check with a lawyer about that as it is an exceedingly complex tax issue.

I would choose a major classy seaport: San Francisco, Nantucket, Mystic...there are a few others  I suppose if one is only sailing locally then a local name will do.

I can tell you it makes no difference whatsoever to the tax authorities in California, and likely elsewhere as well. None. My yacht's previous owners thought they would be clever and put Raleigh, NC on the boat and use a mail drop there. Very clever and a very big tax fight, fine and charge in California. I, on the other hand, being a much smarter and law abiding citizen, put a famous California port name on the same boat, filed the required paperwork with the tax authorities, and paid zero tax.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

You can apply for ANY 'hailing port' you desire for the exterior of a documented boat - home town, commercial port, etc. etc. etc., in the USA, and this includes 'fictitious' hailing ports (that are acceptable to the documentation office). The hailing port (shown on the boat's exterior) differentiates, in detail, the ID of the owner and his/her contact info, etc. of the boat from other boats with the exact same name. However, there will never be two boats with the exact same name and exact same hailing port; just like there will never be the same in any licensing situation for state or federal, etc., as the name plus hailing port is the specific singular and unique IDENTIFICATION of the boat.

That additional ID of 'hailing port' will equate to owner ID, owner mailing address, net tonnage, dimensions, builder location, etc. etc., ...... so that in case of dire national emergency the USCG, or another federal authority that has need of the boat, can quickly locate it - through the 'documentation registry'. A documented boat is always on a 'standby list' for available usage by the federal government in dire national emergencies. 
Coast Guard Vessel Search


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

TakeFive said:


> Do they also report the state of residency of the owner? I would think that they would do that also, but no facts to back it up. What is the purpose of their reporting this?


It must be some sort of agreement between the feds and the states/municipalities for tax purposes. From what the tax folks in Charleston said, the CG reports to the port of registration with boat info, owner's name and contact info. I guess that's where the documentation fees go.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

RichH said:


> documented boat is always on a 'standby list' for available usage by the federal government in dire national emergencies.
> Coast Guard Vessel Search


Certainly this was true in the past, and there were some huge benefits, but I believe this is no longer the case. If I remember right I actually had to sign a form attesting to that fact and understood, back when this was the case.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

RichH said:


> You can apply for ANY 'hailing port' you desire for the exterior of a documented boat - home town, commercial port, etc. etc. etc., in the USA, and this includes 'fictitious' hailing ports (that are acceptable to the documentation office). The hailing port (shown on the boat's exterior) differentiates, in detail, the ID of the owner and his/her contact info, etc. of the boat from other boats with the exact same name. However, there will never be two boats with the exact same name and exact same hailing port; just like there will never be the same in any licensing situation for state or federal, etc., as the name plus hailing port is the specific singular and unique IDENTIFICATION of the boat.
> 
> That additional ID of 'hailing port' will equate to owner ID, owner mailing address, net tonnage, dimensions, builder location, etc. etc., ...... so that in case of dire national emergency the USCG, or another federal authority that has need of the boat, can quickly locate it - through the 'documentation registry'. A documented boat is always on a 'standby list' for available usage by the federal government in dire national emergencies.
> Coast Guard Vessel Search


Not sure I understand this there are 4 boats named Aurora listed as the hailing port of New York.


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## Stu Jackson (Jul 28, 2001)

A bigger question I would ask is: Why bother to document the boat at all?

If you're going to the Bahamas, state registration is all you need.

Sure, if you're going further afield, maybe you'd desire/need it. I simply don't know if this is in your plans.

But every single state these days wants their pound of flesh, so, why both with the extra fee for documentation, which is a yearly cost?

I always wonder about Joe Blow who never leaves his dock with a docK-umented boat. 

Certainly not you, though, I know you from the C25 forum.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

Not all states require state registration and required if you cross a border


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Is letting the documentation expire enough to "undocument a boat?" I know the documentation of the boat I bought expired before I bought it so I was not going to do anything about it but the daughter of the the former owner seemed quite concerned (likely that they might be responsible for any damage I might do to the boat) that I did not "own the boat."


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

capta said:


> ....USCG reports documented boats to their state of registry each year and the tax guys walk the docks making lists and checking them twice!...


I believe the States simply ask for a list of documented boats, under the Freedom of Information Act. Then they simply sort for mailing addresses in their State, under the assumption that you live at the mailing address and would have the boat nearby as well. That's not always the case, but there are enough cheats that don't cheat well that I'm sure they find some this way.

Technically, there is no State of Registry, as it's federal registration. There is a hailport, but I think it's the mailing address that typically triggers the departments of revenue.

I am aware of some states that walk the docks too. It's big dollar tax, that requires minimal effort.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Stumble said:


> ...having the boat registered in that state allows you to claim any time on the boat as time spent 'in' that jurisdiction......


This does not work. When the boat is moored, within three miles of a State's shore, you are in their state. The only exception is when you are passing through, as interstate commerce laws prevent the state from taxing someone for just passing through.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

aloof said:


> ...I would choose a major classy seaport: San Francisco, Nantucket, Mystic...there are a few others :.....


I don't know. I see Newport used as the hailport on dozens of vessels in every harbor in RI. It always makes my eyes roll.


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

cshrimpt said:


> The name of a documented boat is a combination of the boat's name and its hailing port. The hailing port can be anywhere in the US or territories so long as it's a real place. *If you want to name your boat "Sea Spray" with "Boston, MA" as the hailing port, but there is already a Sea Spray from Boston, then you have to pick a different name or hailing port.*
> 
> This is why the CG insists the name and hailing port be visible together on the hull. Technically, they should be physically together, but as long as both name and port can be seen at the same time, they will not complain.
> 
> Shrimp


Do you have a source for this information?

I did a USCG search for Second Wind and, as you can see, there are duplicates in at least NY.

Vessel Documentation Query by Name


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Technically, there is no State of Registry, as it's federal registration. There is a hailport, but I think it's the mailing address that typically triggers the departments of revenue..


State of registry, as in the state on the stern of the boat.


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## ps23435 (Jul 13, 2011)

Hailing port for US documentation will have no direct impact on state taxation. Generally, those states that impose boat taxes will tax boats that are used in that state for a set period of time (for example 90 days) or boats that are located in the state at a fixed point in time (for example January 1st). This will be regardless of what location is on the stern of the boat. Sales and use tax can be more complicated, but again, it is generally related to either where the boat is purchased or where it will be located (or a combination). Documentation also will not prevent a state (or locality) from requiring a registration "fee" if the boat is housed there.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Minnewaska said:


> This does not work. When the boat is moored, within three miles of a State's shore, you are in their state. The only exception is when you are passing through, as interstate commerce laws prevent the state from taxing someone for just passing through.


But it does work when the boat is in a foreign country. In the particular case the boat actually never entered the US, though it was briefly in the USVI.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Stu Jackson said:


> A bigger question I would ask is: Why bother to document the boat at all?


Stu, the simple answer is that I have decided to finance the boat, and the lender requires that I document it. I usually pay cash for everything, but the rate was good (less than my investments are earning) and there aren't many opportunities for tax-deductible interest these days.

The more complicated answer: Even if I was paying cash I'd probably document because the vessel is already documented. A broker friend told me that switching a vessel back and forth between documenting and titling can complicate searches for existing or past liens, and therefore could scare off lenders in the future, affecting potential resale.

Regarding my question that led to starting this thread, I decided to make Rock Hall, MD my hailing port. The reason is entirely pragmatic - I want to place hailing port at the bottom of the sugar scoop under the swim platform, and there is limited space there. Rock Hall is shorter, especially if I use lower case in the name. Swarthmore will not fit at an acceptable height. After seeing some of the discussion, it also seemed to potentially reduce taxaction questions using the same state where I am buying, docking, and using the vessel, even thought that's not the state where I live.


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

That is a pretty good reason. But consider ACCIDENT, BORING, CRAPPO or SAVAGE ... all Maryland places. All pretty funny with "MD" appended, too.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> ... it also seemed to potentially reduce taxaction questions using the same state where I am buying, docking, and using the vessel, even thought that's not the state where I live.


Your home state is still likely to send you a letter requiring that you prove the vessel was not in their waters, and/or that you've paid sales tax to a reciprocal state. That letter often comes in the form of an intimidating bill, based on blue book value. Just keep copies of all your seasonal and winter storage contracts. BTDT.

If you've paid tax elsewhere and your home state considers that an offset to what you would owe them (reciprocal), this really doesn't matter. Just keep proof of having paid too. Although, if your boat is never in your home state, they can't tax it. The one catch to be careful of, is most states have a grace period before tax is due, often around 90 days. This is to allow for free transient passage. However, states typically assess tax instantly on their own residents.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

If you're looking for a short name, there's Ai, GA. I think that might be the shortest. There are a whole bunch of towns with three-letter names:
Job, WV
Non, OK
Zap, ND
Not, MO
and the list goes on...

(I probably should have added a smilie. :smile)


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Thanks for the advice.

I'm really not interested in choosing a hailing port that I have no connection to. I'm looking to reduce confusion, not increase it.

I already told the finance/documentation person to use Rock Hall, MD. That's the boat's true hailing port, so I think it makes some sense.

I'm paying 5% excise tax to Maryland. I'll use the boat there and rarely, if ever, leave the state. PA charges 6%, so they may ask me for the remaining 1%, but since I'll not use their waters I will resist. My current boat is in PA, where I paid the sales tax. Our marina in PA has lots of boats registered in other states (not sure about USCG documentation, though), and I've never heard of PA coming after anyone for sales tax. They might send letters, but they apparently don't have the "binocular corps" that Maryland does.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Minnewaska said:


> This does not work. When the boat is moored, within three miles of a State's shore, you are in their state.


Nope! If the boat, even with a hailing port that lists the state demanding revenue, never physically enters that state .... then its up to the state to prove that such boat actually entered that state; and, if the state can't clearly & incontrovertibly prove otherwise, then 'nada'. 
In such situations, once you declare a boat to 'in principal usage' in another state by paying the 'required' boat taxes to that other state, the hailing port state has NO claims, unless the boat does enter the hailing port state and over-stays that home state's 'grace period'. The same would apply to any other real property that you own and exclusively use .... in another state.

Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.


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## NarwhalChaser (Apr 11, 2007)

If you use CA for a hailing port California will come looking for tax dollars; even if the boat has never been in the state or Pacific for that matter. To prove the vessel's location I had to send a series of receipts (gas, moorage, haul out, etc.) that included my documentation number & transaction date to the state so they would quit pestering me for payment.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

In CA sales/ use tax is charged by the state when you buy the boat. the property tax is charged by counties every year. the Counties do a search for any way it could be in there county. A friend who lives in 
NV.has a boat that has been in Ensenada for 20 years and named California Dream and every year he gets a form to fill out stating the boat was not in their county in CA on January 1


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Stumble said:


> The one exception to this is if you are trying to force your own residency to another state, say Texas or the USVI where there is no income tax, having the boat registered in that state allows you to claim any time on the boat as time spent 'in' that jurisdiction. I know a number of people who have used the location of the boats registration as additional evidence of a change in domicile for tax reasons.
> 
> But generally no, it has zero effect on anything.





RichH said:


> Nope! If the boat, even with a hailing port that lists the state demanding revenue, never physically enters that state .... then its up to the state to prove that such boat actually entered that state; and, if the state can't clearly & incontrovertibly prove otherwise, then 'nada'.
> In such situations, once you declare a boat to 'in principal usage' in another state by paying the 'required' boat taxes to that other state, the hailing port state has NO claims, unless the boat does enter the hailing port state and over-stays that home state's 'grace period'. The same would apply to any other real property that you own and exclusively use .... in another state.
> 
> Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.


Rich, I agree, but you must have misunderstood the point I was making in the post you cited. I was referring to the above post by Stumble (which I quoted), which seems to suggest that your boat is the sovereign territory of whatever state you use as a hailport. Therefore, I believe stumble argued, if you are aboard, it is like you are within the state of your hailport.

You and I both agree, that is not the case. Nor will the State you are actually within consider you otherwise.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> ....I'm paying 5% excise tax to Maryland. I'll use the boat there and rarely, if ever, leave the state. PA charges 6%, so they may ask me for the remaining 1%, but since I'll not use their waters I will resist......


If you never bring the boat to PA, they can't assess the tax. Not that they won't try, when they see you bought a new boat and don't find you in their tax receipts. All you have to do is document where she has been for the entire time you've owned her.

Don't ever volunteer to pay taxes you don't owe. If you're so inclined, send the extra money to you favorite charity, so that it's not wasted and more of it does good.

As for the additional 1% concept, that will only apply if PA gives credit for MD excise tax. Most states do, but some do not.


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## cerwin (Mar 19, 2011)

Are you able to cite us to those who do not? I cannot find any that do not acknowledge credit for the sales or use tax paid to a sister state.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

cerwin said:


> Are you able to cite us to those who do not? I cannot find any that do not acknowledge credit for the sales or use tax paid to a sister state.


Geesh, how hard is it to look them up? I figured I might as well check on the OP's actual example. Turns out that PA does not provide reciprocity for the vehicle excise tax paid in MD, because MD does not provide reciprocity either. PA doesn't provide it to DC, NM, OK, or WV either. They do with the rest of the states. Similar complicated matrices with all the states. Look up what is relevant to you.

http://www.revenue.pa.gov/FormsandP...usinesses/Documents/Sales-Use Tax/rev-227.pdf


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## cerwin (Mar 19, 2011)

The table you refer to shows that Pennsylvania gives credit for sales / use tax paid to any and all sister states. The exceptions you cite apply exclusively to motor vehicles - not boats.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Guys, this thread has drifted into topics that have been thoroughly discussed before. In fact, I checked these things out in 2010 when I bought my current boat, and was considering moving from one state to the other. So I was very concerned about reciprocity between PA and MD. The entire thread covered many issues, but I personally called DNR in MD as well as the Fish and Boat Commission in PA and talked with real people who were working there. This is what I posted at the time:



TakeFive said:


> I have gotten clarification from both PA and MD's boat registration offices, and I have their assurance that I will have no problem moving a boat from one state to the other (either direction). I will pay sales tax to whichever state I choose to moor my boat for the first year, then be able to move it to the other state with no payment (if the taxes are the same) or only pay the difference if moving to a more expensive state.
> 
> They insisted that the horror stories I have heard all involve boat owners who had attempted to evade paying any taxes to any state, and were therefore hit with penalty and interest many years later.


This was the reason for my statement in this thread:


TakeFive said:


> ...I'm paying 5% excise tax to Maryland. I'll use the boat there and rarely, if ever, leave the state. PA charges 6%, so they may ask me for the remaining 1%, but since I'll not use their waters I will resist...


I may actually consider keeping the new boat on the hard in PA during the winter months. If so, I would need to plan to pay PA the 1% difference, and verify that this is all I would owe ahead of time before locking in to a winter storage contract. Although 1% of purchase price is a hit, my savings in keeping the boat at my local boat club would exceed the one-time tax, thus making it something worth considering.


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## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Rick

You fortunate Delaware County PA folks pay 6% sales tax, I am one of the less fortunate Philadelphia County PA residents who pay 8% sales tax based on zip code of residence not location of sale unless I pay cash, but I do have lower property taxes.


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## cshrimpt (Jun 8, 2015)

sailpower said:


> Do you have a source for this information?
> 
> I did a USCG search for Second Wind and, as you can see, there are duplicates in at least NY.
> 
> Vessel Documentation Query by Name


I see that. Apparently duplicates are allowed with hailing ports being "helpful" for telling boats apart. This is from the CG:

WHAT ARE THE VESSEL NAME AND HAILING PORT MARKING REQUIREMENTS?

Documented vessels do not display their official numbers on the outside of the hull, but are identified by the name and hailing port. The application for documentation must include a name for the vessel composed of letters of the Latin alphabet or Arabic or Roman numerals and may not exceed 33 characters. The name may not be identical, actually or phonetically, to any word or words used to solicit assistance at sea; may not contain or be phonetically identical to obscene, indecent, or profane language, or to racial or ethnic epithets. Once established, a vessel's name may not be changed without application, fees, and the consent of the Director, National Vessel Documentation Center. There is no rule against duplication of names for documented vessels, so hailing ports are helpful in identifying vessels.

Sorry for the misinformation,

Shrimp


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## Southron Spirit (Dec 3, 2011)

i bought a sailboat in catawba county,nc i kept it at the marina there for awhile while i did some work on it and arranged to move out out of the lake . i never filed any paper work in nc , as far as they know i dont own the boat.
6 months after i get it to louisiana i get a letter from catawba county asking for info so they can send me a tax bill . 
turns out they have the marina send them a list of everyone who has rented a slip . 
after i sent them all the details they decided not to tax me after all .


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## bletso (Oct 17, 2013)

Some states and local jurisdictions are getting very good at data mining looking for possible missing revenue streams. Some are very aggressive at trying to get their due. With the complexities in all the taxing authorities in the US, it can be hard to not transgress, especially when crossing jurisdictions.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Southron Spirit said:


> .....turns out they have the marina send them a list of everyone who has rented a slip.


This is a fairly common practice. Since RI has no sales/use tax on boats, residents of neighboring states are motivated to keep their boats in RI (and spend money here). However, some try to use a RI hail port, maybe rent a slip for a month, but really have their boat in their home state much of the time. Our current Sec of State, John Kerry, was caught cheating like this a few years back. Mass (his home state) also has a marina reporting program. I think it's for all transients that stay more than two weeks, but don't quote me on the timeframe.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Part of the excise/vs/sales tax issue is because folks here are talking about them as if they were the same thing. They are not. So issuing a "credit" for sales tax that was paid in one state, to be set against the excise tax paid in another state, would be mixing apples and oranges.

An excise tax, like the federal gasoline tax, is a fixed amount charged on each sale. In the case of gasoline, it is a flat amount per gallon of gasoline. And that amount is the same, regardless of whether the gasoline sells for 25c per gallon, or $5 per gallon. The tax is a fixed couple of cents, regardless of the sales price.

With a sales tax, that's based on the sales price of a transaction, and if the tax is five percent, that's a nickel on every dollar. A nickel on a $1 boat sale, but $50 on a thousand dollar boat sale. And, it is generally applied to ALL SALES not just to one object, like "gasoline" or "tires".

So while it certainly would be possible to grant a credit for "any taxes or fees arising from a transaction transferring ownership of a titled motor vehicle" I'm sure that could also turn into a legal mess.

Bottom line, if you want to play with multiple sovereigns, you'll have to beg indulgence from multiple masters. No reason to expect them to pay courtesies to each other, they each want it ALL.


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