# qualifying to " view " boat for sale



## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

Today I made inquiry on a vessel for sale of a broker & was questioned about my qualifications sailing before making an appointment for an associate of mine to view the boat before I traveled 2000 miles for the same purpose . Having observed the moronic , I felt compelled to point out the obvious & informed the broker that my critical mass qualification for our purposes was that I was a prospective buyer & that he & the owner should realize that when you put a boat on the market....people will want to view it . Has anyone else here experienced this sort of screening from a broker ????


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## RichP (Jul 20, 2008)

IMHO its non of the brokers business!


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

He will drive away many prospective buyers with that sort of talk.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I had a couple that totally ignored me when I called or wrote once they found I was on the East Coast and wanted to see vessels that were on the West coast. End result, I found a different broker that had no such concerns, I flew out, viewed the boat and bought it. The broker that ignored me had to split the commission.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Kjango, 

Please tell me the broker's name! He sounds like my kind of person!

Having put up with the following:

1. A guy so old he had to be helped onto the boat.
2. A guy who had never owned a sailboat.
3. A guy who didn't know 'you could make yer own 'lectricity on a boat
4. A couple who 'had sailed Sunfish a couple of times'
5. A quartet of Frenchmen who spoke not one word of English, and no translator with them
6. A couple who poked into every cabinet, then got me distracted to inspect the engine room for a few minutes...when they left, I noticed our hand-held GPS was missing...
7. A couple from Kansas who wanted me to take them out so they could find out how the boat rode in Biscayne Bay--for free! No agreement to buy, no earnest money, no nothing. (BTW, I told them I'd be happy to take them out on Biscayne Bay for four hours, $125.00 per person, minimum four people, BYOB. That cooled their jets in a hurry.)
8. To be crude: a couple who were both as big around as they were tall, and who couldn't even sit at the main salon table

I would be tickled pink if the broker at least got some kind of idea what kind of boat someone really wants/needs. I'm so sick of getting the boat ready to show and then the people who show up, look at the 71 foot mast and spend the next five minutes catching flies with their mouths, I could scream!

The problem is, as I've said elsewhere, that a broker is a salesman. Neither the buyer's broker or the seller's broker have the boat owner's best interests in mind. At least it sounds like this guy is trying to screen people. That's a d*** sight better than our group. Maybe you feel insulted. I wouldn't. He's just trying to spare everyone from wasted time, money and effort.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'm going to have to side with Gary1 on this... while it may not be the broker's right to ask certain types of questions, it would be a good idea to qualify the buyer in certain respects.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Though I see both sides, the reality here (and we are talking reality) is that you cannot qualify someone over the phone without pulling SS numbers and a credit check, etc with a bank account and 2 years tax returns... etc.

I could really care less if they have ever sailed before. That is their problem. They are adults (hopefully). If they want to go drop a large sum of money into a boat purchase without a lot of credentials - let them. My parents bought their boat without EVER owning any boat of any kind and their sailing experience was limited to an ASA 101 and many weekends with me and the family. Their first purcahse: A Tayana Vancouver 42. In essense, it does happen.

Now, I think the other broker (Buyers broker) should go through the steps of simple pre-qualifying to make sure they can afford the boat. That might be nice, eh? 

- CD


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## RichP (Jul 20, 2008)

Since when did qualifications and good sailor become necessarily related? Some of the best sailors i know don't have a single qualification! If he'd asked about previous sailing experience or knowledge...


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Gary1 said:


> Kjango,
> 
> Please tell me the broker's name! He sounds like my kind of person!
> 
> ...


Ask the broker who sold me my boat about this. I had never owned a boat before, just like you and everyone else in the world unless you are born with your boat attached to you. I went to look at the boat, bought the survey from a month earlier from a guy who passed on it, took it for a spin, and handed him a check two days later. My buying process took all of five days from first sight. Those are my "qualifications".

I hope this broker said, "let me ask you a few things about what kind of boat you are looking for" or maybe, "what kind of sailing do you plan on doing". If he comes right out of the box and say "what are your qualifications to be a prospective buyer of this boat?", you bet bet your ass I'd close my check book and go look at another boat without a second thought.

The boat may be "the one", but I'm not giving my money to someone I don't want to do business with. I've excercised my market power like that a few times. Do you think I'm going to part with 100K (or whatever your boat costs)and deal with your smug personality.....no way.

BTW, you aren't looking to purchase Maltese Falcon are you? You may need to present some "qualifications" for that one.

Maltese Falcon


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## joeybkcmo (Feb 28, 2006)

Questions about what kind of boat you are looking for, even on how/where you intend to use the boat I can see. But why would they care about your sailing qualifications


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## T37SOLARE (Feb 1, 2008)

For what it's worth: 

When I was looking at boats that were far away from me, I would contact a local surveyor and ask what they would charge to contact the broker and arrange for a quick walk through (with digital camera in hand). This kept me anonymous and quickly let me know if it was a boat I should even consider. At least 75% of the boats I had someone look over were disqualified and saved me the travel expense & hassle. 

Another option is to contact a different broker in the area, and have them do the same, telling them you will use then as a buyers broker.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Ask the broker who sold me my boat about this. I had never owned a boat before, just like you and everyone else in the world unless you are born with your boat attached to you. I went to look at the boat, bought the survey from a month earlier from a guy who passed on it, took it for a spin, and handed him a check two days later. My buying process took all of five days from first sight. Those are my "qualifications".

I hope this broker said, "let me ask you a few things about what kind of boat you are looking for" or maybe, "what kind of sailing do you plan on doing". If he comes right out of the box and say "what are your qualifications to be a prospective buyer of this boat?", you bet bet your ass I'd close my check book and go look at another boat without a second thought.

The boat may be "the one", but I'm not giving my money to someone I don't want to do business with. I've excercised my market power like that a few times. Do you think I'm going to part with 100K (or whatever your boat costs)and deal with your smug personality.....no way.

------------------------------
I agree with Sapper:
If you wouldn't do business with that style of broker, move on to someone who is more personable. They owe aligiance to only the seller anyway. Always remember : it is YOUR money you are spending. If you wouldn't trust that broker with your dog, don't hand over any money in commission. 

Gary1 :
If you don't like people bothering you to see your boat, don't sell it yourself - use a broker like the OP describes. I assume you didn't want to sell it very quickly, did you? 
There are numerous sailboats on the market from brokers who have more class than others. 

Sail on ...


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I am kind of in the middle on this one. First...the prospective BUYER was not the one going to inspect the boat. It was an associate. 
Brokers get lots of inquiries that come to nothing especially since the advent of yachtworld and other internet services. They often have to travel some distance to show a boat. They have a right to "qualify" the seriousness of intent of prospective buyer. As a seller, I don't want everyone who walks down the dock and likes my boats looks to get a tour. I expect my broker to screen prospective buyers somewhat and I expect they have to manage their time efficiently and not waste it on "lookie-loo's". 
That said...I don't want serious folks screened out or turned off by insulting or stupid questions. If someone from California called and told my broker they wanted to send a friend to look at my boat...and my boat was an hour away from the broker...I would not be upset if my broker told them that he only shows to actual clients, or their surveyors but that their friend was welcome to go view the boat and take exterior photos. 
On the other hand...that is why my boat is AT my broker's place...so that it is no big deal to show it. 
So...I think pre-qualifying is just fine as long as it is done in a customer friendly manner and that the benefit of any doubt goes to the customer.


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## SailKing1 (Feb 20, 2002)

Well, reading the comments here most everyone has valid points on both sides. The problem isn't the prequalifing of the customer. The more expensive the toy the more qualifying your going to find. The owner and broker do not want everyone who wants a look trapezing through their boat. I say "their boat" because the broker bares some responsibility when they take the listing. The broker has a time value cost associated also. The broker probably has more than one boat they have to show located in various places.

The prospective buyer on the other hand doesn't want to be interrogated or have their credibility challenged. Unfortunately there are some people who have way to much time on their hands and like to waste that of others creating frustration leading to this type of treatment.

The problem becomes the quality of the broker and their professionalism and sales ability. There are tactful ways to gather the necessary information that a good broker can use to sell the prospective buyer. 

The broker in question if proceeded as the OP writes, was not vary professional and paid for it in the end.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> As a seller, I don't want everyone who walks down the dock and likes my boats looks to get a tour. I expect my broker to screen prospective buyers somewhat and I expect they have to manage their time efficiently and not waste it on "lookie-loo's".


Speaking of which, I was down at Crusader, right next to Rogue Wave, not too long ago. I put on a blazer, captains hat, and grabbed a snifter of brandy and a pipe. I went into Rogue Wave and put on my best English accent, they let onto Cam completely unsupervised. I took a mean poo and didn't flush  . I returned to the office and proclaimed the vessel didn't meet my rigorous standards. Suckers!!!

(just kidding about the poo, but you do have some barnacles on the prop)


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Sapp...hah...does she look ok other than the prop? Haven't seen her for a while!


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> Sapp...hah...does she look ok other than the prop? Haven't seen her for a while!


Looks clean, a few barnacles aside. I did take pics of the prop just to mess around with you about it, but I must have deleted them for some stupid reason. I didn't go aboard, but they do have her out by the front fence for max exposure (as much as you could expect from that small road). She's surrounded by all the other "serious cruising boats". I love walking that yard when i go down that way.


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

Cam - did you put her on the hard? I must have missed that...

Btw, regarding the thread topic, I agree with the others... qualifications have nothing to do with it, but intentions have everything to do with it. I did get varying responses, however, when we were looking for a 40 footer and moving up from a 23 footer. I was surprised at the reactions, but people thought the leap was too big. I don't get it. A bigger boat is easier to sail, slower to respond and only slightly tougher to get into a slip than a smaller boat.


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

thank you all for your input . To elaborate a bit . I did communicate before hand very specific info as to parameters of vessel I was seeking & intended use . I also in writing made even more specific inquiries about the boat that were never responded to . I also explained to broker that in the past month & a half I had made 3 trips to view boats described variously as expertly cared for , lovingly cared for , & impeccably cared for . Each trip was over a thousand miles . Each boat was a basket case . To be honest , looking at boats under 40K so not expecting like new , but was surprised to visit a boat described as expertly cared for with the cabin separated from the deck & the hull needing re-fastening . To this particular broker's credit , he did respond positively to my critique & assured me my associate would be treated in a courteous & civil manner .


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I guess I should have said a little more. Island Breeze is a 56' cutter, and is on the market for $350,000. She has a 71' from the waterline mast and weighs 26 tons empty. That, patently, is not a boat for a beginner. She's a big, powerful boat with racehorse in her blood. (She won the 1993 Cape Town to Rio race, 1st overall and first in class.) 

As to big boats being slower and easier, there is some truth to that, but when you think about an uncontrolled gybe in a boat this size, you're talking about a boom that won't hurt you--it will stone-cold kill you. 

To that point I added my comment about sending me someone with no experience. This ain't the boat for a beginner. If a non-sailor is looking for a floating condominium, it ain't the boat. She's beautiful below, but it is a boat that was designed to be sailed. The main salon is not 'wide and open'. It's designed for someone to move through the boat when she's heeled over without getting yourself killed in the process. 

As to power, she's running 5/8 T-900 jib sheets, and they sound like high 'E' guitar strings when you're heading upwind in 20 knots of wind. The winches are Lewmar 66 electrics, and when you're going to weather, they drop into low speed frequently. Is this the place for a beginner, or for someone who has 'sailed a Sunfish a couple of times'? No. 

If I were selling my own old Morgan T-36, I'd put up with tire-kickers. Because it's conceivable that someone with no experience or dinghy experience might want to make that kind of a leap. But from nothing to a 56' racer/cruiser? Not!

I've been sailing since I was 19 years old, and boating since I was 14--I'm 60 now, and when I took over as her captain about 5 years ago, moving from 36 feet to 56 feet was a huge move. As someone mentioned, everything moves slower. That's all of the time. Which meant the learning curve for getting her docked made for several occasions where I left my fingerprints embedded in the stainless steel wheel. I had captained large boats before, but most of them were power yachts with twin screws. Getting Breeze backed into her slip was a whole different brand of excitement. It was easily a year and dozens of trips in and out before I felt 100% comfortable with coming and going. 

Anyway, Breeze isn't a boat that would sell fast anyway. She's in an odd market. She isn't the boat for someone on a shoestring budget. She's not new. I'm sure if she were an Oyster, Swan or Hylas, and only a couple of years old, she'd probably have sold by now, but she's from South Africa. Most people are gun-shy of boats that don't have name recognition like a Hinckley. Breeze will sell to a real sailor who wants reasonable comfort as a bonus, but real sailing performance up front. She'll sell to someone who, like me, would rather go from point 'a' to point 'b' fast, and maybe in a little less comfort than a SeaSlug 56 that weighs 50 tons, has a long keel, and moseys along at 6 knots on a good day--provided you're going downwind. Breeze will point 38 degrees and in 20 knots will charge along at 8.5 knots in 5-6 foot seas. 

So that's why I think the brokers should at least have a clue if someone is worth sending to look at the boat. Sending tire kickers and lookie-loos is wasting everyone's time.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

For that boat, I would agree Gary. She sounds sweet. Any pics or links so us dreamers can eyeball her?


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## speciald (Mar 27, 2007)

I've experenced "pre-qualification" at the Annapolis Boat Show. I can understand that particularly on weekends brokers can be over-whelmed by "looky-lews" who are only at the shows because they needed something to do with their kids. And I'll also admit that I look a bit like a boat bum but brokers should be careful who they ignore or insult. I rulled out purchase of a Hylas 54 primarily because of the attitude of the father and son who produce the boats. I wasn't going to put ~1M in a boat when I didn't like the sellers. If their attitude was as it was for a potential customer, how would they treat me after the sale?


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

To me it is all about professionalism. Yes, part of a broker's job is to rule out the lookie-loo's. No, you don't want to disqualify legitimate buyers just because they don't meet your profile. A good, professional broker can walk that fine line without offending the legitimate buyer. If you are offended by the brokers demeanor or questions then you are right to walk away.


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

This may or may not be real relevant , but a great little story anyway . Has to do with a guy named Don Gohagan . As a young man you'd see old Don around the marina looking like a homeless guy that just crawled out from under a bridge & doing anything around the place . Seeing him scraping a bottom , dipping out bait , fueling boats at the dock , cutting the grass & even repairing the mower were all common place . Imaging how surprised I was to find out " Ole Don " wasn't the lowest paid hourly employee at the marina......In fact he was the owner of the marina......the owner of a chain of restaurants through Louisiana , Mississippi , & Alabama , & the owner of the beautiful 85' schooner Jo Jack that was the envy of everyone in the marina with an IQ over 30 . In the 2 years I knew Mr. Gohagan I never ever once saw him ask anyone to do anything except every once in a while he would ask me to go sailing . Looked like a bum.......was a prince among men .


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## GrahamCownie (Jul 24, 2008)

This is a subject that's very dear to my heart. 

I recently phoned a UK broker to enquire about an Elan Impression 434 on offer for £146k (US$300k). As it turned out the boat had already sold. But the broker mentioned that they hoped to have another on the market this August. I asked him to ring me as soon as they had it in. His reply: "oh just keep checking our brokerage listing". I was so shocked I just said OK. But as soon as I put the phone down I e-mailed to say I was interested and would really like to be informed as soon as the boat came on the market. I signed the e-mail with my business signature (CEO of my own sucessful business) to signal that I'm serious. Unbelievably I got the same response. 

What an *****. If I walked into a Rolls Royce garage looking to spend the same amount I'm pretty sure that I would receive an appropriate level of selling effort. I appreciate that brokers may have to deal with dreamers but - you know - that's part of the job. You shouldn't charge mega dollars for your selling services if you can't be bothered to send e-mails to prospective clients.

So, if you are that UK chap with a 434 Impression for sale and are thinking of using Premier Yachts in Swanwick - do youself a favour and think again. Better still contact me directly!

Sorry if this sounds like a bit of a rant but I just can't stand poor service -especially when it's about selling premium luxury products during a recession!

Graham


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

GrahamCownie said:


> ....... I asked him to ring me as soon as they had it in. His reply: "oh just keep checking our brokerage listing".
> 
> ....... If I walked into a Rolls Royce garage looking to spend the same amount I'm pretty sure that I would receive an appropriate level of selling effort.
> 
> Graham


Exactly. When I buy anything over a few thousand dollars (cars, watches, camera gear, boat) I expect to be treated as though I'm a valuable customer. Sell "it" to me, don't make me do the foot work. If I have to do the foot work, I'd instead use that time to find what I want or need elsewhere.

"Just keep checking our listings" isn't acceptable. You can be alerted by just about any retailer when a product you are interested in becomes available. It's not that hard to do.

I think this type of attitude is common in "luxury item" sales though, particularly boats. There is a "yachtie" mentality that affects every level of boating culture, from the guy with the fastest bass boat (i'm better than you) to the Hinkley salesman(person?) who won't answer your questions because you're wearing old shorts and a t shirt with a hole in it (you aren't worthy).


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## LakeEscape (Jul 18, 2007)

GrahamCownie said:


> This is a subject that's very dear to my heart.
> 
> I recently phoned a UK broker to enquire about an Elan Impression 434 on offer for £146k (US$300k). As it turned out the boat had already sold. But the broker mentioned that they hoped to have another on the market this August. I asked him to ring me as soon as they had it in. His reply: "oh just keep checking our brokerage listing". I was so shocked I just said OK. But as soon as I put the phone down I e-mailed to say I was interested and would really like to be informed as soon as the boat came on the market. I signed the e-mail with my business signature (CEO of my own sucessful business) to signal that I'm serious. Unbelievably I got the same response.
> 
> ...


Excuse me but, I don't care if it's $1M yachts or $10 shirts. A sales person is in business to earn money and they are entrely dependant on customers buying from them. Drive away a customer and you don't get paid. A professional sales person keeps a book that contains profiles of all thier clients. An amatuer sales person sits and waits. To not add you to the book denotes a rank green sales person. We call them brokers, but they are no different then car salesmen or realtors or habbedashers. There are some good brokers out there, the kind that do follow up and drop a note to keep themselves up to date, but they are few and far between.

I do like the idea of sending a local surveyor. It puts the remote inquire on a local and perhaps personal level.

This would get more interesting if we were taking about horse traders, the next level down.

Fair Winds,

LakeEscape
Charlotte, NC


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## dongreerps (May 14, 2007)

My family buys and sells Arabians. Horse traders long ago learned to treat everyone as a potential goldmine. Too many guys in blown out jeans and run down boots with lots of loose change. 

I am reminded of the story about Joe Lewis. The day after he won his first championship, Joe went into the Cadillac dealer in Detroit and was treated like a beat up bum. Joe really wanted the car, and so he persisted, got a quote, and pulled out the cash. He then asked to speak to the owner, and said he would buy the car for the price on the contract, but only if all of the commission was given to the guy running the wash rack.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Its kinda' amazing to me to hear stories about buying a high end new boat that mimic my experience buying an older boat. Even though we bought an older boat it is the third most expensive thing we've ever purchased after our house and our airplane.

In our year long search for our boat, I was amazed and appalled at how hard it was to extract info from many of the brokers we spoke to. As others have alluded to, even a used boat costs as much or more than a high end new car where you'd likely be well treated. I don't understand why so many boat brokers think there is no need to try to earn their commission. A sailboat new or used is a major luxury item purchase and brokers really ought to have the skill to qualify a potential buyer without alienating them and to provide a high level of service once they have.


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## cnc33voodoo (May 15, 2008)

i would agree that asking for sailing experience is pertinent to a sale.
other good questions are; budget,plans for the boat,what other boats is the buyer considering,when does he want the boat if he buys it and has the buyer sold his boat yet if he owns one.
if i were selling these are things i would want the broker to relay back to me before i let anyone on my boat.
i could care less about a tempermental buyer bieng scared off by being asked questions.if they are serious they will realise the salesman is not the owner and is doing his job(doing it well is another story).
if someone is serious about the boat they will buy it because of what it is,not who's representing it.
btw, the seller pays the broker, not the buyer.
last thing i want on my boat is some deadbeat,thief or guy who doenst know what he wants and missed the boatshow.


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## 1stMate49 (Aug 10, 2008)

So what's wrong with 'Lookie-Lous'? Weren't you all Lookie-Lous at some point? 
We are 3 yrs into a 6 year plan to quit the jobs, sell all and sail away, and we live in the heart of the mid-west....not a lot of boat viewing opportunities here. Because of this our vacation plans each year, by purpose, include contacting boat brokers in the location we will be visiting to arrange to view sailboats in their area in our projected price range. How else are we going to know what type of boats we should be looking for? Do you all buy a car/house by looking at pictures online alone? No, you go view them. And we do the same with sailboats. Yes, we do make the brokers aware of our timeline for purchasing a boat, and we know that this may put us at the bottom of the list to be shown....and that's OK. But we have met a couple of exceptional brokers this way. One in particular, when we were first starting to look, took a lot of time to show us several examples of different boats in our price range and took the time to explain a lot of thing that, as newbies, we didn't even know to look for or ask about. (When the time comes, if we find a boat anywhere in the state of Florida, we will ask him to be our buyer's broker!) On the other hand, I would be very hesitant to ask a private seller to take the time to show his boat knowing full well we would not be buying now. (Us Lookie-Lous are not all heartless!)
So I ask again: what's wrong with Lookie-Lous? We may not buy your boat today ( but if we run across the right boat, we just might!), but because of our 'research' we will buy one of your boats in the not too distant future! Hope you can take the time to show it to us?!


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## therapy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

1stMate49 said:


> So what's wrong with 'Lookie-Lous'? Weren't you all Lookie-Lous at some point?


Cam said "lookie-loo's".

You guys are OK.

There is a difference between Lou's and Loo's.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

1st mate...I confess...as Therapy said...I'm the anti-lookie loo guy!! Not really...but not all boat *owners* want just anyone shown their boat. We want serious shoppers with the sailing experience and financial capability to buy only. Just as anyone can ask to look...any owner can choose to limit the access. Same deal goes for homes. Real estate folks won't show just anyone a particular home. 
BTW...I guess I would define looki-loo's as those people who are curious about your boat but have no intention, hope or possibility of buying it while it is on the market.


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## Melbournian (May 8, 2008)

We live in Melbourne,Australia and we bought our boat from Florida.
We saw Mizan , Catalina 36MK11 via the internet. We saw loads of pics, contacted the broker. He was really helpful. Gave us names of a few surveyors. Got it surveyed and closed the deal. We were really lucky as the previous owner is a really nice guy. We rented his slip whilst waiting for Mizan to get shipped to Australia. Broker was really helpful in answering all our questions. We finally saw Mizan when we flew over for summer break ...a month before she got shipped out.
We were very lucky. Mizan is fantastic and we have done really well 
Amy


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## Melbournian (May 8, 2008)

PS, it was our first sailboat and we had some sailing experience. But we knew what we wanted.

Amy


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## cnc33voodoo (May 15, 2008)

there is a place for looky-lous.
its called the boat show.
all you can dream for $20.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"So what's wrong with 'Lookie-Lous'?"
What's wrong with them, is that BY DEFINITION they are never going to buy anything. Never. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever. If you didn't know that, you've never worked as or with a salesman of high-dollar goods.

When you earn your income strictly from SALES, the dreamers who come around and take up hours of your time without contributing anything to your income are, very simply, something that you must weed out and get rid of, if you want to take a paycheck home.

There's a difference between someone who looks like a bum or an unlikely customer, and a real looky-loo who's going to be a guaranteed waste of your time and money subtracted from your paycheck.

Part of being a real ace salesman (or broker) is being able to figure ou the difference and be right more often than wrong (because you'll never be 100% right) so you can maximize your sales and profits. Among salesmen there are many sayings about this, like "If you just want to take the kids out, go to a museum."

Do some "bums" pull out a bag of cash and buy big ticket items anyway? Sure. Some few of them--mainly not. Man walks in wearing a ten dollar "Rovex", man walks in wearing a $18,000 solid gold genuine Rolex. Which one of them do you KNOW has probably accumulated $18,000 in capital at some point in time? That's the way the world, and salesmen, works.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Gary1 said:


> So that's why I think the brokers should at least have a clue if someone is worth sending to look at the boat. Sending tire kickers and lookie-loos is wasting everyone's time.


So Gary...When can I come down and kick the tires......

I have two power boats for sale...I won't advertise on craigslist anymore as lookie loos wanting them for 10 cents on the dollar is all i get...And I started getting really snippy with people..to the point of aggressively screening them and I didnt care if I blew them away or not...I still have them for sale..One is now with a broker because I couldn't deal with it any more...the other i dont really care if it sells or not ...Its my salmon fishing boat and I like it.


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## Northbeach (Jan 1, 2007)

*Respect & courtesy.*

This question comes down to respect and courtesy. That's what I enjoy the most about Sailnet. I as a relatively inexperienced sailor I have the privilege of communicating with those who have already become proficient in things I long to do in a sailboat. At Sailnet I have received valuable guidance/insights from the exchanges, and I am treated well in the process. The other side of this is I check with the Sailnet store before I purchase anything, and I buy from the vendors that are recommended by those who have taken the time to give me advice.
I deal with the public all the time and most of them are just wonderful human beings, however a small percentage are not, and a fraction of those are potentially dangerous. The broker who kjango experienced unnecessarily lost a sale. A expert broker at the top of her/his profession would have been able to give kjango the information he/she was looking for while "qualifying" kjango's ability to make the purchase without kjango ever being offended in the process. Obviously this broker lost a valuable customer, failed to meet his seller's needs, and did not collect his commission. We have an unsatisfied buyer, seller, and broker without his commission&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. This sounds like a problem needing to be remedied.
Kjango - given that you are in the market for a quality high end vessel- have you looked at Camaraderie's 52' Tayana ketch that is available? Here is the link Tayana 52.
I'm not broker, do not work in the industry, and have no financial tie to the sale. I would love to see this boat and could spend a full day just asking questions, but I am not qualified to buy. Consequently out of respect and courtesy I wouldn't even consider taking any of Camaraderie's or his broker's time. You, on the other hand, are qualified; perhaps it is a win - win transaction.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

1stMate49 said:


> So what's wrong with 'Lookie-Lous'?


What's wrong with lookie-loo's is when you spend a lot of time and effort getting the boat ready, meeting them on the appointed day, showing them around, and it turns out you were just wasting your time. I think it is downright rude of a lookie-loo to waste someone else's time in that way.

Now, you said you make them aware of your timeline. Fine. That's fair and that means you are NOT one of the rude lookie-loo's. That means they know the score going in, and have the option to say "sorry, but I don't have time to show you any boats that day." They also have the option to tell the owner, "no need to dress up the boat, 'cause these folks are just lookie-loo's."

A lot of the lookie-loo's are not that considerate. To be blunt, they lie. They say (or at least imply) that they are ready to buy very soon, even though they aren't. They make the owner and the broker go to a lot of effort for nothing.

Sure, I've been a lookie-loo before, but then I made a point of looking in places and at times when I wasn't wantonly wasting someone else's time. Boat shows, for instance, are great for lookie-loo's. The boats are already there. The salesmen are already there. They're showing people through the boats all day long and you really aren't wasting anyone else's time by stepping up and going through. They KNOW that most of the people coming through are just lookie-loo's and that's perfectly fine with them.

Wandering through a marina, see a boat with a "for sale" sign on it and someone is already on-board, ask "not really planning on buying right away, but mind if I take a look?" You might waste a couple of minutes of their time, but nothing significant. I don't see a big problem with that.

The real difference, I guess, is the liars. The ones who waste people's time by tricking them into thinking they are a potential buyer. If you don't do that then no problem. If you do then I think that is extremely rude.


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## 1stMate49 (Aug 10, 2008)

WOW! OK, I get the point that you all reeeeeally don't like Lookie-Lous, even us honest up front ones! And I do understand your point of views. 
So then, help us out here....how do we know what make and model of boat we are looking for without actually viewing them? Yes, we have narrowed the field down considerably based on the kind of sailing we want to do, and the locations we want to sail in. And we have put in the time with Yachtworld looking at what is available within our budget range. But the first few boats we looked at were way too small for our needs......looked great online, but a whole other story in person. Then we looked at quite a bit larger boats, and felt they were more than we could comfortably handle. This is when we decided we had to actually view the boat in person to really know if it is a candidate.
The boat show suggestion is great if you are looking for a new boat....that is not in our budget. (And boat shows around here consist of bass boats, pontoons, and ski boats!) We are looking for a 20-30 year old blue water boat that we can spend some time fitting out while learning the boat. 
So, in all sincerity, how do we find 'the' boat without viewing, in person, the options? Like I said before, we are always up front about 'just looking at this time' so there is no confusion. 
Thank you all for your input! We are on a steep learning curve here, and value your thoughts and suggestions!


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## cnc33voodoo (May 15, 2008)

1stMate49 said:


> WOW! OK, I get the point that you all reeeeeally don't like Lookie-Lous, even us honest up front ones! And I do understand your point of views.
> So then, help us out here....how do we know what make and model of boat we are looking for without actually viewing them? Yes, we have narrowed the field down considerably based on the kind of sailing we want to do, and the locations we want to sail in. And we have put in the time with Yachtworld looking at what is available within our budget range. But the first few boats we looked at were way too small for our needs......looked great online, but a whole other story in person. Then we looked at quite a bit larger boats, and felt they were more than we could comfortably handle. This is when we decided we had to actually view the boat in person to really know if it is a candidate.
> The boat show suggestion is great if you are looking for a new boat....that is not in our budget. (And boat shows around here consist of bass boats, pontoons, and ski boats!) We are looking for a 20-30 year old blue water boat that we can spend some time fitting out while learning the boat.
> So, in all sincerity, how do we find 'the' boat without viewing, in person, the options? Like I said before, we are always up front about 'just looking at this time' so there is no confusion.
> Thank you all for your input! We are on a steep learning curve here, and value your thoughts and suggestions!


the best way to learn about sailboats is to get involved.
join a yacht club as a social member and try to get into weeknight racing events as crew.
there is always someone looking for crew.
you will get to sail on other peoples boats and see what you do or do not like about them.
you will also get some solid first hand sailing knowledge and a chance to build relationships with sailors who will most likely be able to point you in the right direction as far as the pros and cons of what you had in mind.
it might even put you in the loop of a good deal comming up.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

1stMate49 said:


> WOW! OK, I get the point that you all reeeeeally don't like Lookie-Lous, even us honest up front ones!


No, you're wrong. The lookie-loo's that people don't like are the dishonest ones. If you are completely honest and upfront about your intentions then no one has any room to complain about anything. Of course, that also means that you don't have any room to complain if someone says "I don't really want to spend my time showing you around the boat if you are not interested in buying."

As for research, there are lots of books. There are sailing clubs. There are a thousand websites out there. There are plenty of people who will be glad to show you around their boat. Most people are very proud of their boat. Wander the marinas. I have had people invite me to take a look below just because I was admiring their boat. There are lots and lots of ways to learn about different kinds of boats without lying to people, and that's the main thing. Like I said before, if you are honest then no problem. If you are not...


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## OZBOATIE (Aug 13, 2002)

Sapperwhit has hit it on the head
the broker should act in the best interest of the seller to ensure a sale not drive off prospective purchasers after all if they dont like that boat they may like another .

While on the subject why is it that many brokers exaggerate the condition of the boats they are selling?? Rubbish is rubbish after all even if it someones pride and joy


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## sctpc (Jun 23, 2008)

sounds like a world wide upper class brokers, That don't need to sell boats to anyone. its the same problem in Australia. Ive been try to get info out off them for months as there 2000 to 9000ks away I am making the mistake off asking questions and it takes over a week to get any response. today I rang a broker that I have been emailing for over a month He had no idea who I where, I was off the phone in 15 seconds why when I asked about the boat he said "i`m busy ring me later " this is at 10am on a normal work day if it was not for liking this particular boat I wouldn't keep trying to find out about it.


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## nightowle (Aug 2, 2006)

By reading this, boat brokers are starting to sound worse than real estate brokers (none of which I've had good experiences with). I bet the broker in question here will be on the bread line real soon with an attitude like his. oh wait.....the boat business is screaming right now! not.....


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## primerate84 (Jun 14, 2006)

When I was looking for a boat three and a half years ago, I called a broker who had a listing for a boat I wanted to see. He basically blew me off after I started asking some pointed questions. I ended up with another broker that I happened to meet at a boat show and made an off-hand comment that I may be interested in buying a boat in the future. (No definite commitment.) To my surprise, he called me two weeks later and told me he had a boat he wanted me to see and would make all the necessary arrangements. I went to see it and ended up buying the boat. He didn't need to do what he did but it did result in a sale. I have since found out he is very successful salesman at his brokerage and gets a lot of repeat business. He gets it.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Hopefully this thread isn't too old to revive.
I run a website development company and sometimes we have some slack time between jobs. 
The Internet has a bunch of websites for crewing, lots for buying and selling, cruising and more.
This thread made me wonder if maybe a website devoted to matching lookie lou's and proud owners would be a service folks would use. I think that sailboat owners are a generous, helpful lot in general and usually go out of their way to introduce new people to our sport.
I know I wouldn't mind showing the Catalina 27 and 30 to a lookie lou from the Midwest. 
I'm not thinking of a commercially viable site just something fun to do.
What do you think?
In fact a lookie lou would probably find out more valuable information from an owner of a boat that was not for sale than from someone with a boat for sale.
Lots of interesting pieces of information:

What boat we had before?
Why this boat.
How the shopping process unfolded
How much it cost
How much we spent afterwords
What we like, and don't like
What we would do different if we had to do it again
In short an in person sailnet.com conversation.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

It sounds like you would just be setting up yet another brokerage site, but with a different form for the seller/buyer to fill out and get matched by. Might work, dating services do.

But can you make that all clear and specific and sum it up in a 100-word business plan that shows how who'll profit, protect both sides, and generate income differerntly from any other broker doing interviews? Remember, lots of folks use brokers because they don't WANT to say anything to the buyer.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

HS...he is not looking to do a commercial site...just put one up as a service and something interesting to do. 

David...I'm not sure about the idea as I would think boaters in many areas would get innundated with requests for a viewing....but lets see how others feel.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Hellosailor. Cam is correct the idea is that the boats are not for sale. But the fact that you missed my intent shows I need to explain it better.
Your idea of a business plan is a good one even though it is not a business.
How about this?

www.SailboatMentor.com
<O
*Are you proud of your sailboat and love sailing and would like to participate in a "pay it forward" experiment? <O*
You love your sport and would like to share what you know.
Sign up on our website and meet interesting people who just want to see what a boat like yours really looks like. 
It is safe and fun you are in complete control. You can message the prospective visitor either privately or on our public forum and offer an invitation when and if you are ready. This invitation can be a short as a fifteen minute tour or if you really hit it off a longer visit. You choose. Since this is not a buyer or seller arrangement there is no pressure and no expectations. Maybe you will convince a new convert to sailing that your boat is the best. It's fun and you get to share with like-minded people.
<O></O>
<O></O>
*Looking to get a sailboat someday or maybe move up or down from your current boat.* 
Not ready to buy but have a thirst for knowledge. Our generous sailboat mentors are pleased to show you around. Pick a boat and captain and ask for a tour. Our sailboat mentors will show you around. Ask a lot of questions. Why this boat? What does it cost? What would they do differently? Come prepared, this is your chance to learn from a real caption who is not selling you something. 
Please treat our captains with respect, be respectful of property and time. They are mentoring you free of charge.

Not sure I like the website name, any better ideas?
Maybe the whole idea is dumb.
Here is the real question?
If I build this site how many of you will sign up a mentors?
It boils down to will it add to the enjoyment of your pastime to share it with, very possibly, clueless newbies or just be a hassle or risk you don't want to take?

It looks like I did an unintentional hi-jack, sorry about that.
I moved this question to: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...ted/49177-how-can-i-give-back.html#post406761


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## Jonesee (Nov 17, 2007)

Same story as some of you have had. About 6-8 months ago I was looking for a new boat. Found one that fitted what I wanted so I dropped an e-mail to the broker to get further specs and details. No one took the time to reply. So I dropped it and moved on. About 3 weeks ago I received a note from the broker asking for a bid on the boat and explaining the owner was willing to finance. 

Too little, too late. If the broker couldn't take the 5 minutes to respond to me 6 months agao, I don't want to do business with him now.

It may the deal of the year, but it just irked me the way he handled it and I am sure the owner would strangle him if he knew it.


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## WheresTheBrakes (Sep 29, 2008)

having close ties to a couple of brokers, i have to say that they have not had to do too much (since the early 90's) to close a deal.. 
Unfortunately (for them) the buyer now has an upper hand as fewer boats are being sold.. 
The few, like my friends that realize this, are more than willing to sit down and talk with buyers, and give them a look around.. 
There are too many guys at boat shows standing on a boat, waiting for 10%


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## badsanta (Oct 16, 2006)

I worked with this guy for awhile and he asked a few of us to look at a used truck with him. We en mass checked it out, seemed OK. He told the salesman he wanted to buy it. He was asked how he wanted to finance it, Buyer pulled out his check book, started writing and handed a check to him. Seller,I have to call the bank before I can take this, Buyer, OK. Seller now with crossed eyes and blank look, Buyer, well what did the bank say? Seller, He said that if you want to buy my business, that check was good also! LOL


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## therapy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

badsanta said:


> I worked with this guy for awhile and he asked a few of us to look at a used truck with him. We en mass checked it out, seemed OK. He told the salesman he wanted to buy it. He was asked how he wanted to finance it, Buyer pulled out his check book, started writing and handed a check to him. Seller,I have to call the bank before I can take this, Buyer, OK. Seller now with crossed eyes and blank look, Buyer, well what did the bank say? Seller, He said that if you want to buy my business, that check was good also! LOL


LOL
.......


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

We had one week sailing experience when we started shopping for our boat. bought a 42'er. doing fine sailing...docking is another matter!

Brokers are people too. some are great, some are ******. buyers are people too. some are great some are ******.
We talked to about 20 brokers. Most were pleasant enough but there were a few jerks that gave us the bums rush. Especially one well known guy in annapolis.


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

Todays tyre kickers are tomorrows boat owners.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

I have bought 3 NEW boats and a few used in the last 30 years so i guess i am not a tire kicker  

But last fall and this spring before i went used again when i tryed to sit down with the dealer were the NEW boat would have been stored in the winter and go over a REAL cost of keeping the boat there and they would not do anything beyond give me a rate sheet  


It seemed to be to much trouble to go over a real cost of keeping the boat there SO it was to much trouble to buy from them :laugher


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## OutThere (Jan 25, 2008)

Cap. Can I talk to you about that Morgan T-36 you used to own. I'm looking at 1975 version now. I've heard they tracked badly before they improved with a swept back fin keel. Any input would be appreciated. Can't PM you since I don't have enough posts yet.


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