# Frers 38



## JDAM (Mar 31, 2003)

Does anyone have any experence with, or opinion of this boat.

Thanks in advance


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I have no hands on knowledge of this boat, nice loooking though. However on the PHRFNE site, there are several modifications done to the keel, suggesting that they are under ballasted in its original configuration


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*2 Time Frers 38 Owner*

Hello,

I can tell you a lot about the Carroll Marine Frers 38. I currently own "Vanishing Point" and previously owned "Dragon", both Frers 38s. The first was a 1989 version with a medium length keel, and the forward placed mast. This version had two design flaws, first, the mast was moved 6 inches forward of design specifications, by Carroll, in order to get it to fit inside the head. Additionally, the 1989 was ordered with the 6' 9" keel. That boat also had the traditional fiberglass hull, a complete forward and aft stateroom, with closing doors and additional wood trim. She was essentially a cruiser.

The new Frers (the 1991) has an "S"-glass / kevlar hull and deck, special ordered for weight savings and additional stiffness. She also has a 7' 6" fin keel. This boat also has an aft bunkroom with no door, and the forward section is for sail storage (no forward cabin). This boat is a lot faster, points like no boat I have ever sailed, and is so stiff, you really don't need a lot of crew to keep her relatively flat in nearly any wind.

The Frers is a very comfortable cruise and occasional racer. They seem to have trouble being competitive in PHRF. The boat has a very low rating, and generally the serious sailors are all sailing the newer technology boats. I single hand the boat frequently, and she's really a pleasure to sail. Everything is led back to the cockpit, and the loads on the sheets are relatively light. My boats both had way oversized winches, so that could be part of it. I motor out of the harbor, put on the autopilot, set the main, shut off the engine, and then I let go of the roller furling line and pull in on the job sheet and I am sailing.

They are relatively light boats, with a good design, and a very sea kindly ride. They can take heavy seas well, with a very dry ride, and they can also sail in light wind without seeming like they are drifting. I do race the boat, but we are not serious racers, so we have not had a tremendous track record. When we are doing things well, we are passing larger boats, left and right, but we always seem to mess up something, and end up finishing in the middle of the pack.

I would suggest, of you are buying one, that you think about 1) the location of the mast; 2) the keel configuration and 3) the interior layout (depending on whether you are cruising or racing). For keels, the 7' and 7'6" fin keels are the best fit, and you want one with the mast in the main salon.

Other than that, they are all very similar. There are some good deals out there, but don't pay too much.

I am available to talk more about the boat at 617 557 0060.

Good luck!


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Cpez....

The original poster hasn't posted since 2005 and that post was 4 years old... doubtful he's still around.

You might want to put your comments in the Boat review section on this board.


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## cmartine97 (Nov 27, 2006)

Hi,

I am looking at a 1990 Frers 38 with Tiller.

I am concerned that it does not have an HIN on the hull?

Do you know if Carroll Marine use to put HIN on hulls for Custom boats?
Any idea if the Hull number could be in another place ?

Thanks,
Carlos


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Enjoyed reading your Frers 38 information. Just purchased a 1982 Frers 38*



cpeznola said:


> Hello,
> 
> I can tell you a lot about the Carroll Marine Frers 38. I currently own "Vanishing Point" and previously owned "Dragon", both Frers 38s. The first was a 1989 version with a medium length keel, and the forward placed mast. This version had two design flaws, first, the mast was moved 6 inches forward of design specifications, by Carroll, in order to get it to fit inside the head. Additionally, the 1989 was ordered with the 6' 9" keel. That boat also had the traditional fiberglass hull, a complete forward and aft stateroom, with closing doors and additional wood trim. She was essentially a cruiser.
> 
> ...


Hello,
Sounds like you would be a wealth of informaion on the Frers 38, enjoyed reading your tread. I purchased a Frers 38, been a racer most of it's life, but I'm looking into refitting the boat more as Racer/Cruiser. In process of having boat trucked up North to PA for refit. The boat had many wins in the Fla Tampa area and I became good friends with it's previous owner who raced her for 5 yrs. He provide me with the original articles advertising the boat back in '82'. It has kevlar grid work, hull mainly S & E glass solid core construction. Very light weight for it's size, 60ft mast raced well in light air.

Would be great to have the opportunity to speak to you some more on the 38 Frers. Getting close to retirement and plan to work on the boat to get her refit, so info from an experinced 38 owner would be great to formulate some ideas. Thx!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*refit frers 38*

I bought a Frers 38 last November and have put a ton of work and $ into it so I can now race and cruise it. you can call me Mon-Wed am at 978-283-9732
The only thing I wouldn't attept on your own is the rigging work..my suggestion have a pro do it.
Fred


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## dandonegan (Oct 2, 2009)

I am currently looking at a 1990 Frears 38. I was wondering if you would mind if I called you to talk about the boat design?

The one I'm looking at need some work and was wondering if you were familiar with the laminate schedule in the keel area?

I'd also love to get your general impressions of the boat.

Thanks
Dan Donegan
802-881-9297


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## cksailor (May 29, 2017)

JDAM said:


> Does anyone have any experence with, or opinion of this boat.
> 
> Thanks in advance


I purchased Hull #14 in August of 1989, after they moved the mast and made a keel bulb optional (900 additional pounds dropping the draft to about 8', and stiffening up the boat wonderfully). I owned her for 23 years, and did Transpac in '97. The boat was a joy, and pointed incredibly high when sailed right (the result of a combination of narrow sheeting angles that the triple spreader rig allows, and the deep elliptical keel and large rudder). It takes waves beautifully, with a sharp entry that reduces hobby horsing, and is capable of sustained periods of stable running in heavy winds with the bow submerged. 
I was initially given a PHRF Northwest rating of 82 or 84, but our small club in Alaska dropped it down to 62 after we began dominating the fleet. After I sold her to a couple in Tacoma, they somehow managed to get a 93 rating--I don't know if they've ever lost a race--at least on corrected time.
It's a great boat, but quality control at Carroll Marine was problematic (not just from my personal experience, but from multiple reports of others). My problems included rudder bearing and rudder stock wear that resulted from an epoxy pour for the top (deck) bearing that was too hot, resulting in shrinkage that allowed the rudder to shimmer (imperceptibly at first). This caused the aluminum stock to wear at the neck bearing, which caused major problems for our Transpac race. Another problem surfaced when open wood on the side of the (chainplate load bearing) bulkhead allowed water and resulting rot and detachment of the bulkhead to the hull. 
Check out your boat carefully, but don't hesitate to get one of these gems. I loved my "Silvergirl."


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Note you are replying to an 8 year old thread. I doubt he is still trying to make a decision about the boat.


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## Love Shack (Dec 21, 2017)

*Re: refit frers 38*

Wonder if you still have your Frers 38? I just purchased Total Eclipse from Marblehead and would love to compare notes at some point. Doing quite a bit of refit, deck work and bulkhead repair now for the coming season as it appears others have had to do as well.

Would be happy to hear from anyone else who has one as well.

Jim S.
Portland ME


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## Colby (Sep 4, 2018)

I found a derlect Carrol Myers, Frers 38... 1991. It’s afloat in a boat yard, been in the water for years. I’m a newb here going to try to get pics up. Tell me to run or typical major problems to look for when I pull it (complete refit). 

Can’t find a way to upload pics so I’ll give my perspective. Has no mast/rigging or sales. hole was not covered rain water has collected but not leaking does not have a bilge. No deck plates the water just covers the runners. All teak is intact, no leaking hatches.
I believe the rudder has seized I jumped into the locker helm wasn’t connected tried a few man tugs. No movement. 

If someone could direct where I can share pics I will.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Run. Even for free, it would cost more to put this boat into decent usable condition than it would to buy one already there.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

Here are some photos of the Frers 38 that Colby is looking at.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

That's not a refit, that's a major reconstruction. Unless you have a barn and a couple of years to spare, leave it alone.

A new rig and sails alone will be 10'$ of thou$and$.

The lead in the keel is the only value there.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

That thing looks like it had been sunk and refloated.

But at least the topside and engine are in great shape.:eek


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## tschmidty (Sep 25, 2008)

Oof, yeah run away. And to be fair there are probably a few other savageable bits on there but that's about it.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

Colby, that boat looks like it would be a junker. The water damage to the wood looks to be significant. I imagine that it would require a complete gut and rebuild. There are videos on Youtube, and lots of stories elsewhere, of people who have completed such projects, but they become an arduous labor of love, and many never get completed. I've been dream shopping for boats for about 5-6 years, to educate myself, and I've seen a number of ads where people list a boat by saying, "Project boat for sale. Work is 3/4 of the way done. It has been on the hard for 9 years and I must sell because of health problems which are preventing me from completing the job".

Check out the vlog of MJSailing.com. Matt and Jessica embarked on a plan to gut and rebuild a Trisalu 37 for a year, that turned into 2 1/2 years. They lived on it, while it sat on stands and they worked on it from sun up to sundown, seven days a week, with only a couple of vacation or hurricane breaks. They did it because they were set on owning a boat with an aluminum hull. Concerning the cost of such a rebuild, they developed a following on Youtube and got support and endorsements to help pay for their project. 

I would think that a project boat like the Frers would have to be one that someone does because they like remodeling projects more than they like sailing.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

How much are they paying Colby to take that boat? 

RUN FORREST RUN AWAY NOW!


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## Chesapeake Mark (Oct 28, 2020)

Love Shack said:


> *Re: refit frers 38*
> 
> Wonder if you still have your Frers 38? I just purchased Total Eclipse from Marblehead and would love to compare notes at some point. Doing quite a bit of refit, deck work and bulkhead repair now for the coming season as it appears others have had to do as well.
> 
> ...


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## Chesapeake Mark (Oct 28, 2020)

Love Shack said:


> *Re: refit frers 38*
> 
> Wonder if you still have your Frers 38? I just purchased Total Eclipse from Marblehead and would love to compare notes at some point. Doing quite a bit of refit, deck work and bulkhead repair now for the coming season as it appears others have had to do as well.
> 
> ...


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## Chesapeake Mark (Oct 28, 2020)

Hey Jim, we met a while back when you were in Maryland. Do you still have your F38? If so how has the boat been?


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## Love Shack (Dec 21, 2017)

Chesapeake Mark said:


> Hey Jim, we met a while back when you were in Maryland. Do you still have your F38? If so how has the boat been?


Mark,

I am actually just now seeing your post and thought I might still update you and the group on progress with F38 Hull #5 now called Sanctuary (x Total Eclipse). We have done a TON of work over the last five years since we bought her and saw you and your boat. I have to say she is now finally complete (of course there are always boat projects to do!) and in great shape. Last winter we redid the rudder bearings which were quite loose and clunked back and forth on a run. That was quite a project which required designing and manufacturing three new bearings (which I now have a design for if anyone is looking for them). Here are a few pictures of our baby for you and the group. I have thought of your boat often, referred to the photos we took that day and have been returning to Annapolis the last few years but usually don't have a vehicle to get up to see you. Anyhow, the boat sails beautifully and when we look at new boats we often think we have the best layout of any equivalent sized boat, old or new. NOW, everyone has different wants/needs and ours is for daysailing and up to a week on the water with another couple. She is perfect for that. Oh yah and she is usually the first boat to get somewhere in a cruising group and as you know is no slouch on the race course. We have not done any racing on her yet but hope to get a steady enough crew for Wednesday nights this coming season. I continue to race on other boats to keep my hand in it. As far as daysailing her, we often sail the two of us with just the 135% genoa and find that she still points quite well, stays fairly balanced, handles a lot of wind and is super easy for the two of us to sail that way especially if we have friends aboard who are newbies or just want to relax. We sheet it to the aft-most self-tailer we have and the lines are out of the way and can be trimmed by the skipper. It is super easy to single hand her this way if needed. 

We have reconditioned and replaced so many items that she is mostly a new boat and the previous three owners always treated her with love so it was more a case of just needing replacement after thirty years of use. I can say without hesitancy that people who say these boats are not well made have never owned a boat and/or didn't keep it up. Obviously you could make a heavier boat which was "more sturdy" if you didn't care about winning any races but there have to be trade-offs and I think Frers and Carroll Marine did a pretty good job with this model. If you keep the water out of the hull and interior, she will last forever. We found that almost all of the original fittings on the deck were allowing water through their sealant and we lifted and resealed them the first year and have been dry ever since. 

Hope you enjoy these photos of Maine. Come and see us whenever you are up this way. We would be happy to show her to you and wonder how your boat is doing?

Regards,
Jim


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