# Mainsail Halyard Shackle?



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

_Abracadabra's_ mainsail halyard has no shackle. I've been using a bowline. The halyard is old and stretchy, and I've been wanting to replace it for years. The local West Marine had "spool ends" of rope at half off, so we bought a 280 foot piece of 1/2 inch Sta-Set for half off. That'll give us two halyards with rope left over. (40 foot mast. I'm figuring on about 100 feet for the halyard.)

I plan to splice a shackle on to this new halyard. The question is: Which kind: Key shackle or screw?

Do you have a preference, and why?

Thanks,
Jim


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

SEMIJim said:


> _Abracadabra's_ mainsail halyard has no shackle. I've been using a bowline. The halyard is old and stretchy, and I've been wanting to replace it for years. The local West Marine had "spool ends" of rope at half off, so we bought a 280 foot piece of 1/2 inch Sta-Set for half off. That'll give us two halyards with rope left over. (40 foot mast. I'm figuring on about 100 feet for the halyard.)
> 
> I plan to splice a shackle on to this new halyard. The question is: Which kind: Key shackle or screw?
> 
> ...


I like the screw. I suppose it's because it's what I've seen and used on all the boats I've sailed on. Also, I just like the idea of a screw being "harder" to accidentally back out. But, honestly, I doubt that a key shackle would be any worse in this regard than a snap shackle (which I use on headsails).

Oh, and the screw shackles are crazy cheap compared to the keys.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

You are not going to like what I’m going to say. For your 30 foot boat Sta-Set is way too soft and stretchy to be used as a halyard. You would be better served by using Sta-Set-X. Even at a half inch diameter, you will experience stretch and creep while you are sailing. You can partially remedy this by installing a Cunningham and use that to maintain luff tension. Sta-Set is more commonly used for sheets on cruising boats. In regards to the shackle, I like the screw type. Try to find one that has a “locking” feature. We use ones with a hole drilled in the screw tab and use a wire tie to insure it stays closed when we do multi day passages.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> Sta-Set is way too soft and stretchy to be used as a halyard. You would be better served by using Sta-Set-X.


Agreed, and I'll go a step further and say that I'd prefer VPC or Sampson XLS over Sta-Set X. I think that Sta-Set X is really hard to splice because if the parallel core. With that said, it can be done and a great splice can be achieved, but it's not an easy splice. I've done it a number of times, on each halyard (main, jib, spin) on my last 2 boats.

I agree that screw type is better. There really isn't a reason for a snap shackle on the main. Don't need one on the headsail either unless you're racing and changing sails frequently.

Additional caution: If going aloft, don't use *any* shackle to attach the halyard to the bosun chair. Only use a bowline.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Shoot !!! I'm doing it wrong again!!!! Thought this a trick question since I assumed everyone used key pin shackles. I've been using the Wichard ones since a friend retired from rigging and gave me a bucketful for my birthday.
Oh well, I like new boats and I cannot lie, A big Catalina with a beam that's wide!
(sung to the tune by Sir Mixalot) So it's your choice but I don't like screwing with a pin everytime I raise or drop the main. pun intentional but poor


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## DrB (Mar 29, 2007)

*I use the Key Type*

D with bar

You'll will not loss the key or the shackle. Splice the shackle on one side of the pin, and the headboard/head of the sail connects on the other side where the key is. The key pin can never be lost.

DrB


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I had staset on my boat, went to 7/16" xls-extra, no regrets. stronger with about 1/3 the stretch. ould probably get away with 3/8" frankly! save a bunch of wt of top. 

With that, my main has a key shackle.

marty


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Always the contrarian....

I have a shackle on my main, but since I never remove the main, I'd be lying if I said what is was. I think it's screw pin. But if I didn't have one, I'd tie a knot.
* With a knot you can end-for-end the halyard or simple cut a foot off.
* The strength loss in the knot is irrelevant, as the halyard is sized for stretch and chafe resistance; it's not the knot that will fail.
* Splices make the line fat and stiff, chafe, and can jam in the masthead pulley. Check your set-up. A knot is lower profile, allowing higher hoist.

I've used many different shackle types over 25 years. Never had a a failure. Whatever fits well.

I've had a number of halyard types over the years, and Stay-Set X is my LAST CHOICE. When you consider handling (stiff and prone to kinks) price, stretch, and wear, I consider it to be perhaps the worse value on the market. Stayset is very good--stretch doesn't matter so much for a cruiser--as is Sampson XLS and some other high mod lines, which will last a long time.

---

Go ahead and tie the Stay-Set to the headboard with a knot. Smooth sailing!


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

GeorgeB said:


> You are not going to like what I'm going to say. For your 30 foot boat Sta-Set is way too soft and stretchy to be used as a halyard.


Yeah. Brain-fart on my part. I thought Sta-Set was as the low end of acceptable rope for halyard use, but NER doesn't even recommend it as a halyard for cruising boats, much less club racers. (Tho we only race the occasional invitational, so we're not even really "club racers," per se. Still...)

I'll be taking the Sta-Set back. I don't know as that was meant to be an "all sales are final" thing, but since it was clearly sold to us for a use not recommended by the manufacturer, we should be able to return it. In any event: That store has been very, very good to us over the years.



Sabreman said:


> Agreed, and I'll go a step further and say that I'd prefer VPC or Sampson XLS over Sta-Set X.


VPC is what I'd decided I wanted, long ago. Even were we to stay with WM for it, I can get 100' of 11mm VPC for the same price as what we paid for that Sta-Set.

I can splice Sta-Set. What VPC like to splice?



DrB said:


> D with bar
> 
> You'll will not loss the key or the shackle. Splice the shackle on one side of the pin, and the headboard/head of the sail connects on the other side where the key is. The key pin can never be lost.
> 
> DrB


That is the shackle I see most often recommended, so, if I go with a shackle, that's the one I'll use, but...



pdqaltair said:


> Always the contrarian....
> 
> I have a shackle on my main, but since I never remove the main, I'd be lying if I said what is was. I think it's screw pin. But if I didn't have one, I'd tie a knot.
> * With a knot you can end-for-end the halyard or simple cut a foot off.
> ...


Y'know, in five years of sailing, tying the main halyard on with a bowline has worked very well, so maybe I'll just stick with that, after all.

I just figured on putting on a shackle because... well... it's what you see on most every boat and we were doing a new halyard, so...

Thanks for your comments, everybody.

Jim


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

Wow, I must be all fubr'd. I wonder how my boat even moves under sail...... I use a snap shackle on the main halyard with 3/8 Sta-set. I have experience some stretch but nothing that an extra crank on the halyard cant fix.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Current boat has a screw halyard shackle with two sets of threads so the pin can't fall out. Works fine. When I replaced the main halyard on my previous boat I went with a parallel core hi-tech line so had an eye splice put in. Bought a Ronstan key pin halyard shackle with a removable clevis pin to prevent it from slipping out of the eye. Also worked fine. The key pin halyard shackle is a bit easier to attach compared to the screw shackle on my current boat, but not a big deal.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Cruiser2B said:


> Wow, I must be all fubr'd. I wonder how my boat even moves under sail...... I use a snap shackle on the main halyard with 3/8 Sta-set.


Indeed! You're doing it all wrong!



Seriously: Whatever works for you. I would've stuck with the Sta-Set, except even the manufacturer does not recommend it for even a cruising halyard. (Besides: One of our jib sheet sets is Sta-Set, and I'm not particularly enamoured of the hand feel. I dunno... maybe it just needs to "age" a bit...)



Cruiser2B said:


> I have experience some stretch but nothing that an extra crank on the halyard cant fix.


The problem with stretchy rope on a halyard is puffs and lulls. Ideally you want the sail to retain the shape you set for it. The more stretchy the rope, the less the shape will be maintained on changes in air. Plus that "extra crank on the halyard," or a Cunningham, for that matter, only works when you want the luff tight. (And even then: Imperfectly.) Oft-times you want the luff less-than-bowstring taut.

As for snap shackles on the main halyard: I'll let somebody else argue that one .

Jim


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

To me, it depends on how you use the boat. If I'm raising and lowering the sail every day, and just using the boat for local day-sailing, then I prefer a simple twist-lock type of shackle. If it's a cruising boat that I am likely to take out into serious weather, and possibly leave the sail up for days at a time, then I want a screw type secured with wire.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Jim.. we tie the halyard on since going to all rope. The bowline works great, of course, but is sometimes too long and can interfere with a full hoist. The knot illustrated in the link is what we've been using on various boats for years, shorter profile than any shackle or splice, and has never let us down. Easier to tie in, and it unties easily too.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...ated/67801-low-profile-main-halyard-knot.html


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Faster said:


> Jim.. we tie the halyard on since going to all rope. The bowline works great, of course, but is sometimes too long and can interfere with a full hoist.


We've actually got quite a bit of "head space" between a full hoist and the top of the mast. And we are getting a full hoist, because there's mark up there. (Just as there is on the boom. Boat used to be raced.) So a bowline has always worked well.



Faster said:


> The knot illustrated in the link is what we've been using on various boats for years, shorter profile than any shackle or splice, and has never let us down. Easier to tie in, and it unties easily too.


Yeah, I've seen you mention that knot before. I keep forgetting about it.

Btw: It's the "unties easily, too" part that gives me pause  But you say it's never let you down, so maybe I'll give it a go. If nothing else: I'm sure it'll surprise the heck out of a local sailor or two 

Jim


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Ok, so we took the Sta-Set back and ordered 110' of 11mm NER VPC. Right now I'm thinking we'll stick with tying the main halyard on. It's worked well for us for five years. But that rope order has at least an extra 10' on it, with which I intend to practice splicing the VPC.

I _think_ my original plan was to use 10mm VPC, but now my thinking is 11mm is still slightly smaller than the 1/2" whatever that's on their now, and will be easier to grip than 10mm.

Thanks for the input, everybody!

Jim


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

SEMIJim said:


> Ok, so we took the Sta-Set back and ordered 110' of 11mm NER VPC. Right now I'm thinking we'll stick with tying the main halyard on. It's worked well for us for five years. But that rope order has at least an extra 10' on it, with which I intend to practice splicing the VPC.
> 
> I _think_ my original plan was to use 10mm VPC, but now my thinking is 11mm is still slightly smaller than the 1/2" whatever that's on their now, and will be easier to grip than 10mm.
> 
> ...


Pretty sure VPC requires a core-to-core splice, not a typical double braid splice. I suggest you have it done by a rigger if you are not familiar with this.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

JimsCAL said:


> Pretty sure VPC requires a core-to-core splice, not a typical double braid splice. I suggest you have it done by a rigger if you are not familiar with this.


It does. Thus the 10' of extra, for practice.

Jim


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Update on what's becoming "The Main Halyard Debacle" 

I must've been on drugs when I ordered that 11mm VPC, because that's _way_ too big. The 3/8 that's on the boat currently has the sheave at the top of the mast full--if not over-full. So back to WM to see if they'd do anything for us. Well, perhaps because we do a lot of shopping there, they would. They'll take the 11mm back. Wow.

So 8mm VPC is on order and I decided to let the guy there that does these things put a Wichard key pin D shackle with bar on it. Like this:










I still ordered 10' extra, to try my hand at splicing it, myself. I don't know how that rope will work out, a fellow sail club member used it for heavy air jib sheets and his crew hates it. Says it tangles easily. But the hand feels good, so, if it works out, the jib halyards are next. I'll splice my own shackles.

Oh yeah: Even had the 11mm fit the sheave, it turns out our clutches are 5/16" - 3/8", 8mm - 10mm.

That's what I get for trying to do things "from memory." I should know better.

Jim


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

After a keyed shackle let go (sail came down, halyard went up) I changed to stay set X and this shackle: Wichard Thimble Captive Pin Shackle - 5/16 in. at Mauri Pro Sailing. Works great, except for stay set x, which I hate.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

I know it sounds nuts, but switching to endurabraid (polyester cover, with dyneema core) is cheaper, stronger, and less stretchy than Sta-set. You want the core to run from your shortest hoist reef back to the cleat, and the cover from about 5' before the full hoist cleat. This allows you to buy significantly less line, and keep the strong core where you need it, but not pay for more core than you need where the line is unloaded.

I use soft shackles for everything on the boat since they are much cheaper, lighter, and at least as strong as metal shackles. You can pick them up from Colligio marine (and others), or splice some up from about $3 worth of amsteel blue line.

Instructions can be found at Soft Shackles


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