# Synthetic Standing Rigging



## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

With the use of UHMWPE products like pre-strectched Dynex Dux, it is now possible to rig a sailboat completely without the use of steel wire. Synthetic rigging is rigged up using deadeyes and lanyards, like a traditional tall ship. I am a big fan of this, and when it comes time to re-rig, I will be doing it in synthetic. 

UPSIDES: 
Cheaper than SS rigging
Low mass, far away from boats CG = faster boat
Easy to replace at sea
DIY 
Easy to adjust 
Corrosion free
Stronger than steel 

DOWNSIDES: 
UV protection becomes issue 
New, not time-tested (in use in commercial fishing for about 6 years)
of course people say this about fiberglass...
Investment in new system (deadeyes are expensive) 


I have also heard of Vectran being used as standing rigging, because it creeps less. 

Who has done this or knows about this? It seems to be a newish idea. 
Also, instead of investing in the precourt deadeyes, can you make your own? What kind of hardwood did old ships use for deadeyes?


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## Quickstep192 (Jan 6, 2001)

Old ships used lignum vitae to make deadeyes. It's dense, hard (and hard to machine) and last time I checked, pretty expensive.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Colligo Synthetic Systems | Colligo Marine

These titanium products and the recommended cordage are the route I'm going when I replkace my standing rigging soon.


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## nk235 (Apr 8, 2007)

I am real interested in hearing what everyone has to say about this as well. I was planning on replacing the standing rigging soon but am not looking forward to it because of the price and having to haul the boat and drop the mast for a period of time.


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## rigamarole (Apr 25, 2008)

I was on a Hylas 70 today at the Miami show and their carbon fiber stays where shipped 14" short. the rep said the rig cost the boat owner $270k. 
It looks weird to see rope holding up a 80' mast.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

All of my standing rigging, except the shrouds (10mm steel cable) is Dyneema.

It's safe, no stretch, light and easy to replace...

Flexible, and easy to carry spares


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## jason3317 (Dec 20, 2007)

Giulietta said:


> All of my standing rigging, except the shrouds (10mm steel cable) is Dyneema.
> 
> It's safe, no stretch, light and easy to replace...
> 
> Flexible, and easy to carry spares


So...this would leave Forestay, Backstay, Runners (if applicable...can't remember if you have these rigged)

I guess the obvious question is what prevented you from choosing Dyneema for the shrouds?

What are the chances of the dyneema blowing up vs steel cable? I suppose if the Dyneema lets go, it's the same as when a rod lets go.

I am trying to find ways, outside of a carbon mast, to save weight aloft...so I'll hope this thread doesn't die quickly.


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## SVCarolena (Oct 5, 2007)

I see how the rigging attaches to the chainplates, but what about attachment to the mast? Our boat has t-ball fittings which swage to the wire. I haven't seen any such fittings for synthetic. Also, it seems like one would have to keep wire for the forestay if using roller furling. Is that correct?

This is a very intersting and timely topic. Although it has has been addresed here several times in the past, just in the last year it seems like there have been additional advancements and more people actually making the switch.

I've heard that Brian Toss has said he plans to go to synthetic on his own boat (may have already done so). So where is Knothead to chime in on this?


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

I heard Bruce Schwab say a few years ago that there really was no reason you couldn't use the new synthetic ropes as standing rigging. I guess that is becoming more common now. I used to race on a couple of Capri 30s a and it felt weird when we replaced the backstays with rope on those boats.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

There really going to have to ZERO in on the UV lifetime for example the PBO guys are pushing it at 3 years 


There is know way its cheeper when you look at the TOTAL cost and shorter life cycle 


As far as easy to replace if it fails i have not seen to many masts live through and upper shroud failure without and act of massive good luck


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

I agree about the UV thing, and lifetime cost, that's why I was considering machining my own deadeyes, they are the part that tips the scales on cost. Considering most people have existing turnbuckles. I still think it would be friendlier for emergency fixes, though. If you lose your mast, or almost lose your mast, it seems that rope would be easier to set up a jury rig with in an emergency. Steel cable is a little less friendly when it comes to working with it. 

Dyneema Rope: Knife, tape, beeswax, fid. 

Steel Wire Rope: Wire Cutters, Swaging tool or swageless fittings, storage space for ungainly coils of wire, and other foreseeable tools. 

Rope just seems more serviceable.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

I guess we won't know the UV life expectancy until there is a definitive test. Or time shows what happens.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

SVCarolena said:


> I see how the rigging attaches to the chainplates, but what about attachment to the mast? Our boat has t-ball fittings which swage to the wire. I haven't seen any such fittings for synthetic. Also, it seems like one would have to keep wire for the forestay if using roller furling. Is that correct?
> 
> This is a very intersting and timely topic. Although it has has been addresed here several times in the past, just in the last year it seems like there have been additional advancements and more people actually making the switch.
> 
> I've heard that Brian Toss has said he plans to go to synthetic on his own boat (may have already done so). So where is Knothead to chime in on this?


Right here follow link

Brackets | Colligo Synthetic Systems | Colligo Marine


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## SVCarolena (Oct 5, 2007)

mangomadness said:


> Right here follow link
> 
> Brackets | Colligo Synthetic Systems | Colligo Marine


I've seen that option, but I hate the idea of drilling new holes in the mast. I'd be much more inclined to consider the switch if I could go with the current attachment. Seems like it wouldn't be too difficult for someone to develop t-ball or cup attachments with deadeyes on the ends.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

UV issues turned us off using new synthetic materials to replace our 28 year-old (afaik) rod shrouds and stays. Chafe also rears its ugly head with synthetic fiber standing rigging, as it does in using it for lifelines. When the marketing people are TOUTING the fact that it can last as much as three years, it gives me pause. For me, going traditional should not have to include tarring the rigging to protect it from UV rays and possible sudden, unannounced failure. For an emergency short-term repair line makes some sense. As mentioned by various people in this thread, terminals can become a problem however. It's all a balancing act between what you need, what you want, and what works.


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## patrickrea (Aug 20, 2007)

I didn't see anything on the Colligo site for anything that will provide tensioning. Having to use a winch to provide tension on a halyard would be a real pain in terms of balancing my 3 shrouds per side.


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## jfranta (Aug 19, 2002)

tommays said:


> There really going to have to ZERO in on the UV lifetime for example the PBO guys are pushing it at 3 years
> 
> There is know way its cheeper when you look at the TOTAL cost and shorter life cycle
> 
> As far as easy to replace if it fails i have not seen to many masts live through and upper shroud failure without and act of massive good luck


Dynex Dux is made form Dyneema SK-75 material, which is widely known as the best synthetic for UV resistance. Now, quantitatively, we are saying 3-5 years minimum, uncovered, in the sun and it will probably be more than 5 years. Cover it and it will last much longer. At the same time, our researh vessel in the Sea of Cortez, has shrouds on it that we are removing and pull testing every year to develop a characteristic of UV damage (April 09 will be 2 years). This will begin to be published in May or June on the Website. A study of SK-75 (base material of Dynex Dux) was completed by the Univ of Aukland that basically showed the material experiences some UV damage and then becomes relatively opaque to UV and the rate of damage diminishes.

Costs: We have found that initial costs are within about 10% of the cost of 1x19 wire mostly because costly turnbuckles do not have to be replaced when using lashings. Over time it becomes even cheaper because you do not have to replace the hardware, only the line.

We strongly believe Dynex Dux and the other coming heat stretched 12 strand Dyneema alternatives are the value leader in Synthetic standing rigging. Size it for stretch and creep and it will be so overdeisgned for strength, it ussually is more than twice the strength of the wire it replaces. This type of standing rigging is very conducive to the Do it yourselfer and really deserves a look.

We have now rigged boats from Beach cats to 55 foot schooners and catamarans.

Please let me know if you have any other questions

John Franta, Colligo Marine


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

my question on this is how does it work as a forestay with furler. will the fuller cause too much chafe when it turns?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

jfranta said:


> Dynex Dux is made form Dyneema SK-75 material, which is widely known as the best synthetic for UV resistance. Now, quantitatively, we are saying 3-5 years minimum, uncovered, in the sun and it will probably be more than 5 years. Cover it and it will last much longer. At the same time, our researh vessel in the Sea of Cortez, has shrouds on it that we are removing and pull testing every year to develop a characteristic of UV damage (April 09 will be 2 years). This will begin to be published in May or June on the Website. A study of SK-75 (base material of Dynex Dux) was completed by the Univ of Aukland that basically showed the material experiences some UV damage and then becomes relatively opaque to UV and the rate of damage diminishes.
> 
> Costs: We have found that initial costs are within about 10% of the cost of 1x19 wire mostly because costly turnbuckles do not have to be replaced when using lashings. Over time it becomes even cheaper because you do not have to replace the hardware, only the line.
> 
> ...


1. Can you explain how to safely tension in a little more in detail?

2. Also, a drawing or description of what is necessary for a full shroud replacement identifying part numbers and prices would be an excellent addition. To clarify, A picture showing the distributor, terminal end fittings, brackets and sizes for a particular line size. It would make it easier to order the correct parts and give a fast estimate of total cost.


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## funsailthekeys (May 15, 2008)

I do rigging often and usually the only part that is not recycled is the actual wire. We reuse the Sta-loks and turnbuckles. The average life span of a recreational sailboats rigging is 20 years. I fail to see where there is any significant savings. I do see however a larger probibility of failure due to chaff and UV damage, both which are absent with wire rigging.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

funsailthekeys said:


> I do rigging often and usually the only part that is not recycled is the actual wire. We reuse the Sta-loks and turnbuckles. The average life span of a recreational sailboats rigging is 20 years. I fail to see where there is any significant savings. I do see however a larger probibility of failure due to chaff and UV damage, both which are absent with wire rigging.


I wasn't switching for the savings. 
- Less weight aloft
- Easier to inspect and replace if weary.
- Coolness factor

I don't see UV degrading the cordage that quickly, even if unprotected.

I don't see anything chaffing the rigging save maybe a albatross with razor talons.

I'm excited to see the test results from the long term test boats.


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## jfranta (Aug 19, 2002)

*Tensioning lashings*



mangomadness said:


> 1. Can you explain how to safely tension in a little more in detail?
> 
> 2. Also, a drawing or description of what is necessary for a full shroud replacement identifying part numbers and prices would be an excellent addition. To clarify, A picture showing the distributor, terminal end fittings, brackets and sizes for a particular line size. It would make it easier to order the correct parts and give a fast estimate of total cost.


1. Tensioning lashings is easy and can be accomplished in a couple of different ways.

a. The lashing is started with a splice into the line terminator and thus ends heading up from the chainplate distributor. This means that you can bring a halyard down and tie it to the lashing line, then run the halyard back to a winch. Put some tension on the halyard then equalize the lashing by pulling on each subsequent lashing line from the beginning splice to the end at the halyard. Untie the halyard while holding the lashing tight. You can actually use a clamp or a pair of vise grips to grip the lashing together while untieing the halyard. Then tie off the lashing with a series of half hitches as shown on the website. Even the Amsteel lashing line is very tough and chafe resistant. If you have our terminator cleats you just close the cam once the tenison is worked thru the lashing- very easy.

b. You can also tighten the lashings on the leeward side while sailing. This is the method I use most often. Really easy to do just keep an eye on the mast to keep it in column.

You can use a line gauge (loos, etc) for relative loads side to side. No quantitave numbers here but relative works for most cruisers.

2. The line terminators need to be sized for your line and the line needs to be sized for Stretch and Creep based on dynamic and static loads, respectivley. The distirbutors need to be sized for your chainplate sizes and loads. I will be putting some more descriptive pics here soon. Thanks for the tips.

Paradigm shifts are needed here from using easy to understand turnbuckles, (righty tighty, lefty loosey). We have developed our terminator cleat to make things easier but I can tell you this: When showing most of the sailors in Paris our Terminator Cleat, their response was overwhelmingly, "Why do you need that you just tie it off!" I have been using lashings on my own boat Fixed Rig, 55 ft mast, for about 2 years now and really see no problems. One of the lashings haven't been touched for over a year and is still tight.


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## jfranta (Aug 19, 2002)

funsailthekeys said:


> I do rigging often and usually the only part that is not recycled is the actual wire. We reuse the Sta-loks and turnbuckles. The average life span of a recreational sailboats rigging is 20 years. I fail to see where there is any significant savings. I do see however a larger probibility of failure due to chaff and UV damage, both which are absent with wire rigging.


I don't know of any stainless manufacturers that reccomend using their products for more than 8 years. Turnbuckles and Staylocks should at least be x-rayed or magnafluxed if being reused for longer than the manufacturers recomendations. Stainless has a big stress corrosion cracking problem.

Dyneema Sk-75 is used to make butchers gloves, loggers drag logs thru the woods with it. While not steel, Dynex Dux is the most chafe resistant synthetic line available. I did read a story about a guy in Beirut that had schrapnel problems in his marina so I wouldn't recomend it there.

Jfranta, Colligo Marine


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## captain jack (May 5, 2013)

it's been a few years, since the last post. is there any updated information about this?


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## Puddin'_Tain (Feb 14, 2014)

My boat partner and I looked into getting Dux rigging for our Ericson 27 a few years ago. We looked really long and hard at it in fact, for all the reasons stated in this thread (the DIY aspect was both appealing and kinda scary). In the end we decided to stay with stainless, primarily because we would have had to replace just about everything (including the mast tangs) to make it work on our rig. That made it too just expensive, and awfully complicated for a DIY project, to justify the "experiment". Now that we're getting the boat ready for sale, we're just glad we don't have to sell any potential buyers on the "weird" standing rigging -- "plain vanilla" always sells better than "new and exotic", even in sailboats.


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## tnevaneb (Aug 17, 2012)

I have rigged my boat using synthetic standing rigging and it was pretty straight forward. I used New England Ropes STS-HSR and regular stainless steel thimbles. I didn't have to buy any exotic fittings, so that helped to keep costs down.

On my website Rigging Doctor, you can find instructions on how to do it yourself and the materials I used. If you have any questions, you can also send me an email.

Herb Benavent


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

tnevaneb said:


> I have rigged my boat using synthetic standing rigging and it was pretty straight forward. I used New England Ropes STS-HSR and regular stainless steel thimbles. I didn't have to buy any exotic fittings, so that helped to keep costs down.
> 
> On my website Rigging Doctor, you can find instructions on how to do it yourself and the materials I used. If you have any questions, you can also send me an email. Herb Benavent


Are you saying you would recommend that someone on a 50+ foot boat use a standard open s/s thimble with rope rigging, heck any rigging for a stay or shroud? I can see that on a topping lift, or flag halyard, but on your rig?


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## tnevaneb (Aug 17, 2012)

Yes actually. Everything depends on the level of care you give it. Open thimbles will close under the tensions of the stays and must be retentioned as this happens. As they close, you need to make sure that they close into each other. When they make contact, they will then hold their shape but the sharp edges need to be covered to protect sails and rigging. I used soft nylon cord and wrapped everything to protect the other components. 
If you are not willing to go to these lengths, then I would not recommend them to you but instead use the closed sail maker thimbles. They have no sharp edges and are not going to change shape as drastically. 
I used 3/4" open thimbles for the headstay and cap shrouds. I used 5/8" for the lowers and backstay on my 45 foot cutter.
The cost difference was significant: $3 for open ss thimbles, $12 for closed ss thimbles, $100+ for titanium fittings. When you have 11 stays to do and each one needs 4 fittings, I chose to go with open thimbles on my boat because I'm willing to inspect my rigging very often and prevent problems. 
If you are not willing to inspect it very often, then closed thimbles would be a better fit for you. 
If you feel the need to spend lots of money, the titanium fittings look gorgeous! 
Each boat and boat owner have different needs and expectations. Therefore, my suggestion for the fittings would be tailored to each situation. 
Remember, the thimble simply guides the rope and reduces friction as they move past each other, the dyneema is what is doing all the work!

Herb from www.RiggingDoctor.com


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