# Loose Foot Main sail vs Foot Bolt Rope in boom Track



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I have the choice for my new main. Have always had the traditional bolt rope foot on my main going into the boom track,

What do you have?

Advantages? Disadvantages?

Dave


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## capngregg (Feb 8, 2007)

*Mainsail choices*

My little SC 22 had a bolt rope main when I first got it and it sailed okay. At that time my only method of reefing the main was the original roller reefing boom. This always felt very cumbersome to me and is definitely not recommended when the wind is way ahead of you reefing, especially if you're singlehanding.
When I purchased my new main I had double reef points put in and I went "loose footed". I also installed a boom vang and a topping lift. The boat seems to point better (not that this is any kind of a high performance ride) and I can obtain superior sail shape on any point of sail.
I much prefer the loose footed sail over the bolt rope but I don't really think there is too much difference that can be realized on a small boat. On your boat it may make a large difference though. I used to crew on several high performance race boats and we always used loose footed mains.

Gregg


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

I am in the same situation as you. I've always had the foot attached. I am ordering a new main within the next few weeks and narrowing my choice to manufacturers and cut (cross-cut vs. North Radian or Quantum Fusion). But one choice is clear. I will definitely go with loose footed. To put it in perspective, the vast majority of jibs are loose footed. The reason why we still use a boom is because it is impractical to sheet a main without it.

Pros:
1. Better sail shape control because there is no foot
2. No flattening reef needed 
3. Easier construction because a shelf does not have to be made & slides do not have to be fitted = reduced cost.
4. Easier control because you don't have to fight sail slugs on the boom
5. Easier furling and reefing because the foot is free.

Cons:
1. A tendency for foot flutter. Corrected with a foot line.


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## DrB (Mar 29, 2007)

*What he says*



Sabreman said:


> I am in the same situation as you. I've always had the foot attached. I am ordering a new main within the next few weeks and narrowing my choice to manufacturers and cut (cross-cut vs. North Radian or Quantum Fusion). But one choice is clear. I will definitely go with loose footed. To put it in perspective, the vast majority of jibs are loose footed. The reason why we still use a boom is because it is impractical to sheet a main without it.
> 
> Pros:
> 1. Better sail shape control because there is no foot
> ...


Loose foot it.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

We've gone with a loose foot for the last two mains, though originally we did have a boltroped foot that was attached to the boom. The pros mentioned above are all true. We've had no trouble with "foot flutter".


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

There have been a few discussions prior.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/seamanship-articles/35266-loose-foot-vs-attached-whats-best.html


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## jaschrumpf (Jun 22, 2002)

What does a loose foot main sail look like on the boom? Does the boom even come into play any more?

Every boat I've ever been on has had the bolt rope in it; I'm envisioning the old-style wooden ships setup where the sail is attached to rings that slide along the boom. Does anyone have a good photo showing the differences?


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## Liquorice (Nov 28, 2007)

I've got a C&C 26.
Originally the boat had a bolt rope on the foot.
I bought a new set of sails 3 seasons ago with a loose footed main.
I much prefer the loose foot.
- seems to set better.
- easier to see the results when trimming, or maybe it's psychological.
- I don't get any foot flutter!
The foot shelf is supposed to help prevent boundary layer crossover under the boom, thus improving lift, but the increase in effectiveness of the new sails, makes this loss (if there truly is one at 6 knots) unnoticeable!


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## Liquorice (Nov 28, 2007)

Jaschrumpf,
The foot has one large (long) slug at the clew.
(Some racers replace this with a webbing loop velcroed in place)


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

jaschrumpf said:


> What does a loose foot main sail look like on the boom? Does the boom even come into play any more?
> 
> Every boat I've ever been on has had the bolt rope in it; I'm envisioning the old-style wooden ships setup where the sail is attached to rings that slide along the boom. Does anyone have a good photo showing the differences?


Here's what it looks like:








The boom provides both an attachment for the mainsheet and a means to flatten the sail (by pulling on the outhaul) and/or the vang.

A loose-footed sail usually droops below the boom (like this one does) to provide better air-flow across the lower part of the sail... but it doesn't have to:










Note: The boat the pic is taken from in the top pic has a slug to hold the clew on - the one in the bottom pic uses a webbing strap. The blue line is the reefing line.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> Does the boom even come into play any more?


Absolutely. Without it, the boat's deck would have to be inordinately long in order to run the mainsheet from the clew to a "main car" (similar to a genoa car) and then forward to a winch. Also, since most mains end somewhere near the helmsman's head, the sheet would constantly threaten to decapitate the driver.

You might ask "What about jibs? They're loose footed". True, but jibs are a compromise too. May jibs are boomed, but the rig inherently limits the size of the sail. So we loose foot it and run the sail aft of the shrouds. But that limits the sheeting angle to how wide the shrouds are.

So mains have a boom for practical reasons - a) to easily control the sail back where the people are and b) because rigging it like a jib just won't work because there isn't enough room.


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## paul323 (Mar 13, 2010)

Go loose. I love the my footed main (Pearson 323). Better sail shape in all wind conditions; more control. No foot flutter. Only thing I would say is make sure the foot can be pulled tight on the outhaul - mine is a little bit too small, so when the outhaul is fully tightened the sail is barely flat - another couple of inches would have given my a better "stretch flat" on the foot.

My daughter's laser is loose-footed too.....


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Running your reefing lines is also simpler with a loosefooted mainsail, as you don't have to have the sailmaker include slits or grommets for the reefing line to pass through when you're tying it around the boom. 

Also, you can tie the reefing nettles around just the sail, which is a bit more forgiving than if you tie them around the sail and boom, when you forget to release them and try shaking out the reef--you're less likely to tear the sail and cause a very expensive repair.


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## jaschrumpf (Jun 22, 2002)

This all sounds very interesting and appealing -- does anyone have a photo of what a loose foot main looks like on the boom? Can a bolt rope main be converted into a loose foot?


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

PhotoBoatGallery.com Photography by Allen Clark
There are some other photos in that same gallery. 
In heavier air it just flattens out nicely like the pic in the next link
PhotoBoatGallery.com Photography by Allen Clark

Yes, any sailmaker can conver an attached foot to loose foot on basically any sail. Cost should be less than $100. Possible in the $50-75 depending on the relationship you have w/ the sailmaker.


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## klem (Oct 16, 2009)

There is no question that the boat will perform better with a loose footed main. However, you need to make sure that the loads you place on the boom are not increases the stress above acceptable levels. When there is a bolt rope in the sail running in a track on the boom, the loads are spread out along the boom and it is better from a structural standpoint to have mid-boom sheeting. However, on a loose footed sail, all of the loads are concentrated at the end of the boom. With mid-boom sheeting you end up with a large bending moment which is really bad. With end of boom sheeting, you don't have a bending moment but you need to make sure that your hardware can handle the loads.


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## centaursailor (Nov 7, 2010)

zz4gta said:


> PhotoBoatGallery.com Photography by Allen Clark
> There are some other photos in that same gallery.
> In heavier air it just flattens out nicely like the pic in the next link
> PhotoBoatGallery.com Photography by Allen Clark
> ...


Like the sound of the loose footed set up, having read a few articles on its benifits. 
Is it a matter of a strong slider at the clew and leave the bolt rope out of the boom grove? Alternativly I could remove most of the bolt rope, say up to 6 inches behind the clew and 6 inches from the mast allowing the most of the foot to clear the grove. Current system is roller boom reefing and its not great for reefing in heavy weather. Sail shape is a ***** when more than a couple of rolls are needed  
Safe sailmakeing.
Ps Found the needle, and the palm.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I don't know if this would be strong enough, since a bolt rope foot sail depends on the bolt rope for a good part of the foot's strength, and doing this would more than likely cause the sail to tear more readily.


centaursailor said:


> Like the sound of the loose footed set up, having read a few articles on its benifits.
> Is it a matter of a strong slider at the clew and leave the bolt rope out of the boom grove? *Alternativly I could remove most of the bolt rope, say up to 6 inches behind the clew and 6 inches from the mast allowing the most of the foot to clear the grove.* Current system is roller boom reefing and its not great for reefing in heavy weather. Sail shape is a ***** when more than a couple of rolls are needed
> Safe sailmakeing.
> Ps Found the needle, and the palm.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

A couple of thoughts to consider

1. Simply removing the slides does not make a loose footed sail. Sail made with foot slugs has a shelf built incorporated into the bottom of the sail that transitions the main's foil to a straight edge. Removing the slugs might make the sail look loose footed, but it's not the same beast. 

2. On any sail, including a main, the loads are concentrated in the corners. Thus, the load is not spread along the boom. This is why many sailors do not tie reefing lines when reefed (we rarely do) and why reef points are not reinforced; they are not under much load. I can't really think of any concrete examples why any boat with a footed sail can not transition to loose footed without modification.

zz4gta - I know the boat in the photos. The skipper is bowman with us for Gov Cup.


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## centaursailor (Nov 7, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> I don't know if this would be strong enough, since a bolt rope foot sail depends on the bolt rope for a good part of the foot's strength, and doing this would more than likely cause the sail to tear more readily.


Missed the obvious, Could the ropeless foot section be strengthened with webbing, getting some anyway for those replacment life lines?
Safer reefing


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> I don't know if this would be strong enough, since a bolt rope foot sail depends on the bolt rope for a good part of the foot's strength, and doing this would more than likely cause the sail to tear more readily.


Have a look at the boom ends in both of the photos I posted. Both of these mains have been converted from a bolt-rope in the track to (a) slug and (b) webbing via a reinforced clew. You can clearly see that the bolt-rope is still there..


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Running your reefing lines is also simpler with a loosefooted mainsail, as you don't have to have the sailmaker include slits or grommets for the reefing line to pass through when you're tying it around the boom.


Could you explain? Are you saying the reef lines on a loose-footed main don't pass through grommets in the sail? I have a non-loose-footed main and I have grommets at the leech and luff that act as the clew and tack of the reefed-down sail. I have two-line reefing, so I don't tie anything to the boom.... are you talking about the smaller grommets that run across the body of the sail? Wouldn't you need those with a loose-footed main, if you wanted to tie up the slab of hanging sailcloth?


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

Great thread ! & Great ppl sharing exp & info freely !!

Feels good to learn something good every day


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

One other thing to consider with a loose footed main is the possible need to rework your outhaul to take advantage of the greater ability to shape the lower section of the main using the out haul. If you already have your outhaul led back to a winch then you're good to go, but if not you'll probably want to consider doing so, or perhaps increasing the purchase on the existing system. 

On my boat, I increased the purchase on the in the boom outhaul system but did not lead the line aft. I only adjust the outhaul if I'm getting overpowered and need to flatten the sail so I don't mind going to the mast to make the adjustment. If racing, you might find it more convenient to lead the outhaul aft so you can tweak for minor changes.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Good point Mid. My outhaul is led to the cockpit so I will be able to use on the my smalller cabintop winches. We have 5 winches...three on the cabin top (one 2sp-43) for the main, one on the port side where the main halyard, centerboard, and outhaul are located, and one on the starboard where the spinaker halyard, outhaul, spare halyard and vang sheet are located.

SD, thanks as always for the tip.

Dave

We are putting a tides strong track system in for the main also when replace it as with four full battens we want to make sure it is more easily managed. I am getting the sail from Quantum. 8 zo high modulus Challenge, 2 reefs triple stitched.

It seems that there are advantages to this loose foot sail idea. I guess I will have to give up my old ways of freaking out when I see light between my boom and sail foot.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Hartley18 said:


> Have a look at the boom ends in both of the photos I posted. Both of these mains have been converted from a bolt-rope in the track to (a) slug and (b) webbing via a reinforced clew. You can clearly see that the bolt-rope is still there..


If you read the post I was replying to, the poster said:



> *Alternativly I could remove most of the bolt rope*, say up to 6 inches behind the clew and 6 inches from the mast allowing the most of the foot to clear the grove.


*He was going to remove the bolt rope from most of the foot and use the bolt rope remnants instead of adding slugs,* which is why I replied the way I did.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

chef2sail said:


> Good point Mid. My outhaul is led to the cockpit so I will be able to use on the my smalller cabintop winches. We have 5 winches...three on the cabin top (one 2sp-43) for the main, one on the port side where the main halyard, centerboard, and outhaul are located, and one on the starboard where the spinaker halyard, outhaul, spare halyard and vang sheet are located.
> 
> SD, thanks as always for the tip.


Happy to help.



> Dave
> 
> We are putting a tides strong track system in for the main also when replace it as with four full battens we want to make sure it is more easily managed. I am getting the sail from Quantum. 8 zo high modulus Challenge, 2 reefs triple stitched.
> 
> It seems that there are advantages to this loose foot sail idea. I guess I will have to give up my old ways of freaking out when I see light between my boom and sail foot.


A friend installed the Tides Strong Track system and has been really happy with it. The one thing to watch is the main drops pretty fast with it....almost as fast as with a batt-car system. It really helps with raising, lowering and reefing the main, especially if you're not directly head to wind, since the pressure the full battens add makes it a bit more difficult to raise and lower otherwise.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The terminal end of the reefing clew and tack lines are usually attached to the boom by tying a bowline around the standing part of the line after looping it around the boom. On a bolt-rope-footed sail, you have to pass the reefing line through a grommet or slit along the foot of the sail to do this, which requires the sailmaker to provide these openings. With a loose-footed sail, you don't have to do this. And if the sailmaker puts the grommets or slits in the wrong place, when you reef the sail, you may damage the sail. You can see what I mean by looking at the boom in the foreground of this photo:









See the turquoise line...that's the terminal end of a reefing line tied around the boom.

As for the nettles, which are between the tack and clew reefing lines, are used to tie up the bunt of the sail when it is reefed. On a loose footed you can tie up just the bunt of the sail, rather than having to tie the bunt of the sail around the boom, which is the case on a bolt-rope footed main sail. If you try shaking out the reef and haven't untied the nettles-you stand a much greater chance of tearing the sail if the nettles are tied around the boom, since the boom doesn't have any give.


AdamLein said:


> Could you explain? Are you saying the reef lines on a loose-footed main don't pass through grommets in the sail? I have a non-loose-footed main and I have grommets at the leech and luff that act as the clew and tack of the reefed-down sail. I have two-line reefing, so I don't tie anything to the boom.... are you talking about the smaller grommets that run across the body of the sail? Wouldn't you need those with a loose-footed main, if you wanted to tie up the slab of hanging sailcloth?


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Sabreman said:


> A couple of thoughts to consider
> zz4gta - I know the boat in the photos. The skipper is bowman with us for Gov Cup.


Hey Sabre, yeah he drove my boat while I did pit for SBRW last year. I'll have to see if he's interested in doing it again this year. You doing DTB? I'm signing up for Gov Cup as well.

To the OP, the foot of the sail isn't heavily loaded. 








Not the best pic, but you get the idea. Should be pretty easy to convert to loose foot, but as SD said, don't just leave 6" of rope luff at either end. It'll screw up the shape and may even try to pull out of the track.

And Chef, if you're getting a new main, make sure its loose foot. You'll never go back. The only real benefit from a shelf foot is having a rain water collection device in the ocean, and DDW the 'cup' shape of the shelf foot may give a slight speed benefit. I'm willing to bet its less than a 0.05 knot, if it's measurable at all. I have a main with a shelf foot, and it's not horrible, it's just that the loose foot is so much better. No reason to get a new sail w/o a loose foot.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> You doing DTB? I'm signing up for Gov Cup as well.


Well, he *was* bowman... he couldn't make it last year.. not sure about this year. Pic below is from 2009
2009 MD Governorâ€™s Cup (31 July - 01 August 2009)

DTB is the plan. I think that work will finally cooperate and I'll be on this side of the country in May for the first time in 3 years. I'm glad to hear that you're doing Gov Cup; it may be your last chance. It looks like work will cooperate with that one too - I'm in Hawaii for 4 wks just before and in NJ for 2 weeks just after the race. A squeaker.  Gonna have 2 new sails for these races; I'm about to pull the trigger on the main (loose foot, of course!).

Sorry to hijack the thread.. now returning to our originally scheduled debate.......


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

zz4gta said:


> And Chef, if you're getting a new main, make sure its loose foot. You'll never go back. The only real benefit from a shelf foot is having a rain water collection device in the ocean, and DDW the 'cup' shape of the shelf foot may give a slight speed benefit. I'm willing to bet its less than a 0.05 knot, if it's measurable at all. I have a main with a shelf foot, and it's not horrible, it's just that the loose foot is so much better. No reason to get a new sail w/o a loose foot.


..and if you're thinking that loose-footing a main is a relatively new invention, bear in mind that the gaffer in the picture Doggie posted (posted by me first earlier in this thread - sometimes I wonder why I bother) was launched 100 years ago and is a regular entrant in our Classic races.. 

The boat the photo was taken from is this one.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Sabre, I'm hoping that the scare about "the last gove cup" will bring out more racers this year. It's a challenging race. In 09 I was on Scot Free, a J 35, we did really well, but I think he may have sold the boat, anyway, I'll keep an eye out for ya this year, I got a great tactician. 

DTB should be fun, it can't suck anymore than last year with a no wind start, then 20 kts on the nose for 120nm. And rain for 7 hours.


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## jaschrumpf (Jun 22, 2002)

It almost seems that I could just take my bolt rope main out of the groove in the boom and use the existing hook at the gooseneck and the slug I have now at the clew to make it a loose foot.

Are there any problems with this approach? Should I have the grommet at the clew reinforced in some way? Is it really necessary to have the bolt rope removed?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

jaschrumpf said:


> It almost seems that I could just take my bolt rope main out of the groove in the boom and use the existing hook at the gooseneck and the slug I have now at the clew to make it a loose foot.
> 
> Are there any problems with this approach? Should I have the grommet at the clew reinforced in some way? Is it really necessary to have the bolt rope removed?


No, you shouldn't remove the bolt rope. You'd want to use a longer slug that is more heavily attached than your current one, since the current one was installed expecting most of the loading to be on the boltrope.


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## cruisingdream (Feb 7, 2007)

My old sail was a shelf foot I got a new loose foot sail last year and wouldn't go back , the loose foot is so much easier to adjust the outhaul & get the sail shape you want.


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## Liquorice (Nov 28, 2007)

Taking the bolt rope out of the boom and attaching at tack and clew isn't going to make you a loose footed main.
The foot of the sail is still shaped in 3 dimensions to make the shelf, and that's still there, so the shape will be wrong.
When you convert a sail to loose foot you have to reshape, recut the lower panels to remove the fullness at mid boom where the sail turns sharply back toward the boom. This involves removing the rope; recutting or replacing 1 or more panels and altering the broad seaming to flatten the sail verically. Then strengthening the foot with a new folded hem. If you don't do this you'll have a funny looking cupped shape at the bottom of the sail. It may involve messing with the lower part of luff and leech too!
That's why sailmakers always charge more than you think they should - there's more going into the work than you can see once it' s completed.
There - I feel better now!


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> The terminal end of the reefing clew and tack lines are usually attached to the boom by tying a bowline around the standing part of the line after looping it around the boom.


Aha... that's pretty clear. Now I see why I was confused: on my boom (attached foot), there's hardware bolted onto the boom that the terminal end of the leech reefing lines are tied to with bowlines. On the one hand, it eliminates the need for the extra grommets you're talking about; on the other hand, it's a source of frequent snags and a modicum of chafe.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

AdamLein said:


> Aha... that's pretty clear. Now I see why I was confused: on my boom (attached foot), there's hardware bolted onto the boom that the terminal end of the leech reefing lines are tied to with bowlines. On the one hand, it eliminates the need for the extra grommets you're talking about; on the other hand, it's a source of frequent snags and a modicum of chafe.


One advantage of the line around the boom is that the line doesn't tend to torque the boom and twist it out of vertical like a hardware attachment point can.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> One advantage of the line around the boom is that the line doesn't tend to torque the boom and twist it out of vertical like a hardware attachment point can.


Well, there's a cheek block on the other side of the boom that redirects the reefline toward the gooseneck, and eventually back to the cockpit. So wouldn't that balance it out? I haven't noticed torquing the boom while reefing, but maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention. Certainly if you were to pull straight down on the reefing line from the cringle on the side further from the terminal end, I could see the torque issue coming up.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

This is normally more of an issue if your reefing lines run internally in the boom..since those are basically on centerline.



AdamLein said:


> Well, there's a cheek block on the other side of the boom that redirects the reefline toward the gooseneck, and eventually back to the cockpit. So wouldn't that balance it out? I haven't noticed torquing the boom while reefing, but maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention. Certainly if you were to pull straight down on the reefing line from the cringle on the side further from the terminal end, I could see the torque issue coming up.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Ah, makes sense.


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## centaursailor (Nov 7, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> If you read the post I was replying to, the poster said:
> 
> *He was going to remove the bolt rope from most of the foot and use the bolt rope remnants instead of adding slugs,* which is why I replied the way I did.


Jez, look what happens when you go to sleep. He being me was looking at options.
Always best to theorize before getting the tools out. Bolt rope still secure.
All good stuff tho.
Happy reefing, eventually.


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## genieskip (Jan 1, 2008)

Another huge advantage, for me anyway, to going loose footed is that when I pulled the bolt rope out of the boom I had a place to for a bolt rope for the stack pack that I made for the sail. Sailrite's plan for the stack pack is to bolt or rivet two channels on the boom, one on either side, to hold the bottom edge of the stack pack. By using the slot previously occupied by the foot of the sail I had a very solid anchor point for the bottom of the stack pack. And the sail sets and reefs better as a bonus. Win - win all around.


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