# Sail price and dacron type



## klubko (Feb 21, 2007)

Hello,
we are shopping for a new mainsail and we've got quotes from North Sails and UK Hasley. The price difference is quite substantial. 
Is there any comparison of the Nordac Premium, used by NS, and TNF Dacron used by UK Hasley?
Many thanks for advice
Petr


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

not much difference between cloths check prices from fx as well the most important thing to look at is waranty will they fix it if it fails at their expense.
also ask each company for tech specs on their cloth.


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## klubko (Feb 21, 2007)

newhaul, thanks. What is fx?


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## cruisingdream (Feb 7, 2007)

fx sails 
http://shop.sailnet.com/sail-loft-c-516.html?osCsid=0cc43a7d6058fd67a3431936143d765a


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Make sure you are comparing similar sails - type and weight of cloth, number of reefs, number of full length battens, etc. Generally the lofts buy their cloth from someone else (like Challenge) and then may put their own name on it. Premium dacron of the same weight will be pretty much the same.

I note you are from Hong Kong. Rolly Tasker in Thailand is a huge operation with a reputation of building very good sails for good prices. Look for a local dealer.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Note that NorDac is a proprietary cloth manufactured for North. It is a laminate and should not be compared with high aspect or any cruising dacrons from Challenge, Bainbridge, or anyone else. As a laminate it has the potential to delaminate and mildew. Personally, I would not touch NorDac or NorLam. The jib in my avatar is NorDac. It delaminated and grew acres of mold shortly after the photo was taken in August. It's been replaced with a dacron sail from another loft.

With many of the Name lofts, you pay for the name, marketing, and franchise. The reality is that many if not most cruising dacron sails are made in Hong Kong at one or two huge facilities and "designed" by computer at the remote site. Unless the sail is made locally by a small loft, the local sailmaker does very little except measure for your sail; they don't actually *make* the sail. High end racing sails area different beast; the sailmaker is much more involved.

Try Hong Kong Sailmakers (http://www.hksailmakers.com/).

If you want to see how a high end laminate is made, see the following. YouTube - How It's Made (Season 14 / Episode 4 / Part 1)


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

I'll second the recommendation of Rolly Tasker sails. I have two that I bought from National Sail in Florida. Great sails, best cloth, great price.


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## klubko (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks you all,
as for the Rolly Tasker in Thailand: I don't want to badmouth them, but we've got a bad experience with them.
We are also thinking about Lee Sails, which are based in Hong Kong and people speak nicely of them.
Our main concern is that we want extra large roach (over extending the backstay, but allowing tacking when reefed to 1st reef) and a lot of people warned us that it has to be done by someone who really knows what they are doing. That's why we also considered NS, which are however quite far away.
Sabreman: NS website describes Nordac as woven polyester, is that really the same cloth you mention?


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> NS website describes Nordac as woven polyester, is that really the same cloth you mention?


I think so. I bought the sail used and in "excellent" condition; no delam and no mold. It has a "North Sails Cruising Sails" label on it. The tag and the broker said that it was NorDac. My understanding is that NorLam is a racing cloth. I had the sail up for 2 months and mold grew rampantly. Researching the issue, I found that mold grows between the taffeta on each side of the sail and whatever the core is. Regardless, a cruising sail should not get that moldy in 2 months of Chesapeake summer. Unless I'm hard-core racing I will not go with anything except straight dacron.

Fortunately the broker (Bacon Sails), upon my suggestion, applied the price to a new sail and all is well. The new sail is built much better too.


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## klubko (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks, we definitely want Dacron that would last, can be repaired by us etc.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

NorDac and NorLam are two different cloths. The second is the laminated one.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Yup. I understand that they are different. I suspect that the sail was from the early 90's and could have been made from a NorLam and mislabeled. I'm dismayed that they would label it a cruising sail, yet it molds after 2 months on the mast. I know that North's cruising laminates need a cover other than Sunbrella, sort of like a mainsail cover over the roller furler. I've seen a few of these and they look like such a pain to use for a cruising sail.

Basically, I think that there are much better alternatives to all this confusion. I know that North uses proprietary cloth to keep their costs down, but the result is confusion in the marketplace since there is no direct comparison. This discussion is a great example of that confusion.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

All premium sail cloths are not made alike or tested alike. The major quality lofts have cloth woven to their own proprietary specifications and do their own testing. The better lofts inspect each peice separately and the rejected pices are often sold to less expensive prices to the cheaper lofts. By being able to set precise specifications for the material, the bigger better quality lofts can more precisely engineer fiber orientation, cut patterns and stress mapping to take the best advantage of thier fabric's characteristics and this results in better flying shapes and greater durability.

The key with buying any new sail is to precisely communicate your objectives for the sail in terms of;

how you sail (heavy air or light vs only moderate conditions, sail changes vs partial furling, club racing vs solely cruising vs high level racing and so) ,
how much use the sail gets (out sailing every day vs five times a year) ,
how it will be stored, and
how important performance is to you vs durability vs price.
As much as I am not a fan of North Sails, I will say that it is a mistake to say that North produces their own cloth to save on costs. I would sooner say that producing their own cloth allows them to more precisely control thier ultimate product which should be a good thing for the quality of the sail, but not for the price of the sail. My experience with Rolly Tasker, while quite a few years ago now, was not a very good one. The initial sail shape was not bad in moderate winds but the engineering and materials were not very good and the sail seemed to blow out (lose shape) much faster than expected.

Jeff


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Having been to the BIG north loft in Milford CT and seeing the looms make the cloth i think going cheep is the last thing on there mind 

And regardless of wear your north sail may get sewn its cut in Milford on the laser tables and shipped to the assembly point


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## klubko (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks all for your comments. We have also asked Neil Pryde in Hong Kong for a quote and consult.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Jeff_H said:


> As much as I am not a fan of North Sails, ...


I am curious as to why not, Jeff?

I don't believe any of Abracadabra's current sail inventory are North Sails sails, but, by luck or happenstance or whatever you want to call it, we've ended-up getting all our repairs, improvements, modifications and cleaning done at a local NS sail loft. They treat us well and, near as I can tell from talking to the other sailors in our club, charge us fairly.

I realize you wrote "not a fan of North Sails," not "not a fan of NS sail lofts," but were we in the market for a new sail, the local NS loft would be my first stop. Thus my question.

Jim


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Personally, I would not buy another dacron sail, You can get a panel laminate from Ullman "CAL" that is with in 10% of the cost of dacron, this is a GOOD qulity dacron, triple stitched etc, not the inshore equal from say an FX. Les stretch in higher winds, better speed in lighter airs, not sure why to bother with dacron frankly.

Marty


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

I don't know about the more inexpensive Dracon sails but if you are looking to quality and good design, North Sails is one of the good sailmakers on the market.

If you want the best price, China is the place, if you want better quality at a fair price, North sails is one of the places you can get it

Take a look at the movie, it's an interesting one:

YouTube - North Sails - Better by Design

Regards

Paulo


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## AlanGSYS (Aug 11, 2010)

Interesting posts. Is all dacron created equally? North indicates their 4800 is proprietary. I am in the market for a cruising main for my Sabre 34 and the more research I do the more confused I am becoming with the many different and variety of fabrics on the market.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

As with anything else, all dacrons are not the same. But the good news is that there are very few manufacturers other than the house brands. Contender, Bainbridge, and Challenger are the main manufacturers. Stay away from anything other than these and the house brands like North due to the potential for poor quality control.

As with selecting sheets for your bed, a higher thread count is one thing that you are looking for. Check out Halsey's encyclopedia Sail Cloth - UK-Halsey's Encyclopedia Of Sails

Most dacrons for non-race applications are fill oriented. That is, their strength is in the width of the panel. This is why a crosscut pattern is used so often with dacrons and why you can not normally use a dacron for a tri-radial sail. Stay away from a mitre cut. They are difficult to cut properly and are no longer needed (developed in the 60s and 70s to counteract stretch effects of dacron). North has a new Radian cloth that is dacron but can be oriented in a tri-radial fashion. But it is an expensive cloth.

Laminates are another story. But since you asked about cruising sails, I won't discuss them.


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