# Securing floorboards



## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

Has anyone used velcro to do this? I'm thinking of routing out small portions of the underside of the floorboards to use heavy duty velcro to keep the floorboards secured (the routing is necessary to keep the boards flush and prevent them from sitting proud). The design is not intended to keep anything that's stowed under the floorboards in place (that stuff all is secured already, such as batteries, etc.), it's just meant to keep the floorboards themselves from becoming missiles, so presumably the velcro should be able to work for that purpose. Some new boats are coming with the boards secured that way, and the velcro is surprisingly strong; you actually have to use some force to get the boards up. 

Anyone have first hand experience with this?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Should work pretty well. I've used it to hold temporary wall panels up in a photo studio.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I would be more inclined to use a pair of brass or stainless friction catches for securing floor panels. The two units can be rotated to 90 degrees, eliminating the need for morticing.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The PYI panel fasteners are good too..but a bit pricey.


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

I'm guessing that you are even considering this because of the problem loose floorboards would create in a roll over. Sure the velcro may hold the floor boards in place for the roll but if you ship any water they will float right off and your cabin sole would be a minefield of holes to make your way across. The battening down of floorboards serves two purposes: The won't come out in a roll over and they won't float off in a flood.


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## Sasha_V (Feb 28, 2004)

On the other hand, lets be honest. If he gets more then floorboard deep water, he is not going to just sit back and listen to the little electric bilge pump going brrrrr. He is going to PULL UP A SECTION OF FLOORING and get a bucket in there as well.

i think velcro soudns liek areasonable solution. Concerns about it are Contamination with sand, dust and crud which makes the velcro deteriorate very quickly and lose most of its grip. Movement, mnost floors flex hither and yon just abit and this si fine given that boats bend just atouch so that some ribs are more in contact on som occassions then others. Do you a) want the sound of velcro every time you tack or b) want the sound of velcro when you walk across the boards given they are likely cut just a little bit too small to allow for boat flex?

Just some thoughts to ponder.

Sasha


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## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

The PYI fasteners are great, but they truly are pricey. I have 12 floorboards, and using them would add about $1500 to teh cost just for the hardware.

By the way, in response to a commment or two from others, the velcro I'm talking about is seriously heavy duty stuff. It's not like what you would get from your average hardware store. We're actually going to have to give a yank to get the boards up when we want to. The boards aren't just going to float away if the velcro gets wet (but by that point I'm in much bigger trouble anyway).


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Velcro might work well. It may keep the board from sitting flush with the rest of the cabin sole though. There are some nice fitting made for this though. ABI Marine makes really nice fittings, and the have a "turning lock lift handle" that looks like it would work well. *It will cost a lot more than velcro, but it will be a permanent solution.* Check this out, ABI Turning Lock Lift Handle


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Dan, The only reason I mentioned that style friction catch is, all cabinet doors, drawers and selected sole hatches on my recent Nauticat have that style - hold really well and are easy to install.

Although the cabinet / locker doors and drawer latches have an added lever, requiring a bored hole for finger release (like child-guard latches), horizontal panels did not.

Upon a closer search, I found *these* in solid brass and actually closer to what I had . . . at only 1.99 ea and available from Ace hardware. One pair per panel should hold. That's 48.00 total. I assume the panels already have flush finger pulls.


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## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

Not sure there's an easy way to install these and keep the floorboards flush.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Measure twice, screw once. The male section should first be surface mounted to the panel's bottom face. Then the female part (with SS spring and ball assembly) is secured to the vertical face of the perimeter jamb stop, on the floor opening - at 90 degrees to the male. 

I think you will find that there is ample tolerance with the assembly of both parts - allowing some room for error. Simple - yes?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

TB-

Those would work quite well I'd imagine, but are a lot more work to install than the velcro is.

BTW, on the most recent fastener, the piece mount parallel to each other, not perpendicular. 










Plumper-

If he's using the two-inch wide velcro, the boards aren't going to have enough floatation to lift themselves free... it just ain't gonna happen... unless they're floating in mercury. If they're floating in mercury, he's got other much more serious issues.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

sailingdog said:


> TB-
> 
> Those would work quite well I'd imagine, but are a lot more work to install than the velcro is.
> 
> BTW, on the most recent fastener, the piece mount parallel to each other, not perpendicular.


Dog - they're mounted parallel, but at 90 degrees to each other.

Dan, Considering you're installing at least 24 of these, I would make a pilothole drilling jig out of a small block of wood. That way you just measure the fit once - mark and drill the holes on a block of wood and use that as a guide for all 96 screw holes. Use a power driver bit as well.

Additionally - the Ace hardware is exactly the same as the "marine-grade" - same vendor (China most likely) just repackaged to sell at 4 times the money.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Dan,

My preference would be for real hardware such as what TB or Sapper posted. 

I don't especially like the velcro idea -- but it might work fine.

I understand you are getting the boat ready for a trip to Bermuda this summer. You probably have a long list of preparations you are working through. So that you can check this one off and move on to the next requirement, I'll just mention that many off-shore sailors simply drill holes for screws and screw the floorboards down in 2-4 places. That is a cheap, quick, simple way to do it. Keep an inexpensive electric screw-driver handy for speedy extraction of the screws.

When you return to primarily coastal sailing, you can remove the screws if you find them inconvenient.


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## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

Screwing the boards down was a thought, and that actually was the first recommendation I received from the guys at my yard. I hate that idea though because I check our bilges regularly while underway, whether coastal or offshore. Plus, the thought that in an emergency, or even just to close/open a through hull, I'll need to pull out a screwdriver first just doesn't sit well with me. Lastly, there's the aesthic -- having a bunch of screw heads visible throughout the cabin is not the best (that's certainly not the first consideration, but it ain't nothin' either).


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Another option to consider is using small magnets...if you have the finger cutout hole for the boards that get used , or use a suction cup with a handle to lift them.....coating the magnets with fingernail polish will keep corrosion down to a minimum and will last awhile...


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Mine are screwed in, my bilges are only about 4 inches deep and there is no bilge pump on either hull - I have 250gph pump used to drain the shower that has a hose for use in 'cleaning up'.
My boat is seriously impacted by the weight that a single hull full of 4 inches of water would entail. In theory it's not sinkable even if both hulls flood but I'm not up to theorizing while treading water. Gemini's have been holed, and those that have did not sink.

I've been thinking for a while now about installing real pumps, and replacing the screws with an alternative. I'm not worried about a roll over - I've got bigger problems than lose floorboards if I go over 
Thanks to all for the ideas.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

This doesn't work on a full keeler, because that is where we keep our stuff! 

When I do this job, I'll need positive locking that will keep stowed gear IN PLACE should the boat roll. It would be bad enough to capsize, but to have hatches and tinned goods and spare chain and dissembled anchors flying about is suicide.


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## tomaz_423 (Feb 5, 2006)

Dan, 
You basically have to decide if you want a positive locking or not.
If not then the solution TB suggested is by far the simplest, quickest to install and perhaps the cheapest option. Just "routing out small portions of the underside of the floorboards" you wanted to do is perhaps more work then TB's solution. You can use 2 fasteners for small boards and four for larger boards.
But there is a reason to use positive lock: if there is some amount of water in your bilge this water can run around and in a near knock down can push the leeway board from below with some reasonable force. That can lift the board. Just imagine what one bucket of water can do hitting the board from below. 
It is not floating (statically) - any Velcro or TB's solution can work there. It is dynamic force of the running water hitting the floor board which can lift them.
I checked the http://www.pyiinc.com/images/pdf/panel/PYI_Floor_Anchor.pdf
and the price is high, but it is not that as you wrote.
You only need 2 per board, so if you buy a starter pack (for the tool) and two 12 packs the price is 468$. 
Or you can compromise: positive lock on larger boards and TB's option on smaller ones.


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## kerry (Dec 31, 2007)

*sole*

What are the reasons to secure the floor boards? I just completed replacing 25 sections in my boat with T & H plywood and all but 4 are not secured. The prior floor was the same and I did not find a problem with them in that regard. Needed in a roll over or floating off because of excess water seem to be at the extremes which to me is not a valid reason to secure them. If either of these happens, you have more concerns than the floor coming up.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

kerry said:


> What are the reasons to secure the floor boards?


If you are in a knockdown, broach, rollover, pitchpole, or worst of all the dreaded knockroach D ) anything that isn't secured will fly. All those books on the shelf, the ice box lid and everything in the ice box, the floor boards and everything stored in the bilge, everything just sitting on top of the hanging locker, the galley stove, everything not secured will fly.

I remember reading about the female half of a cruising couple getting severely injured when they got knocked down and the stove hit her, she was almost killed. It could have been "just" a knockdown that would have been easily recoverable, but it turned into a desperate emergency that ended the cruise. I made sure my stove gimbals locking tabs had the stove firmly locked in after reading that one.


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## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

Kerry:

On some level I agree with your assessment; however, for the reasons mentioned by Sapperwhite, it's a good idea to do it. Moreover, just about all offshore events require the floorboards to be secured. I'm running one of those, so I figure I can't ask others to do what I haven't done myself.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

tomaz,
That's a great link with some very high quality solutions - I've earmarked it for future use.

Don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, but there's a nice quality hardware product line I use from Phelps, Inc., for custom windows and doors. I have the full line catalogs at my office, but an online catalog can be viewed HERE Click on Screen Hardware for the page containing the *Model SCF64 *cam fastener, in solid brass. Here's an image from that page:









​
These would be easy to install, by drilling holes through each panel and adjoining slots in adjacent wood jambs.​


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## TradewindSailing (Aug 19, 2006)

In the search for floor anchors I also found the following:

Aircraft Heavy Duty C-Lock fasteners from CAMLOC® 4002 40S5 STUDS GROMMETS | QUICK RELEASE FASTENERS FOR AVIATION AND RACING QUICK LOCK AIRCRAFT FASTENER PANEL









DZUS studs
DZUS Studs from Aircraft Spruce

Other aircraft camlock fasteners
Fasteners from Aircraft Spruce

haven't decided yet, would like to hear feedback


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

Sapperwhite said:


> If you are in a knockdown, broach, rollover, pitchpole, or worst of all the dreaded knockroach D ) anything that isn't secured will fly. All those books on the shelf, the ice box lid and everything in the ice box, the floor boards and everything stored in the bilge, everything just sitting on top of the hanging locker, the galley stove, everything not secured will fly.
> 
> I remember reading about the female half of a cruising couple getting severely injured when they got knocked down and the stove hit her, she was almost killed. It could have been "just" a knockdown that would have been easily recoverable, but it turned into a desperate emergency that ended the cruise. I made sure my stove gimbals locking tabs had the stove firmly locked in after reading that one.


That is why I would not try to hold the floor boards on my boat in place with velcro. I think a positive locking system is much better, unless your floorboards are 1/8 inch ply or something. As I said earlier, I would also be concerned about the floor boards floating up in a case of major flooding. Velcro would not hold my boards down and the fall into the bilge if the boards weren't in place is a couple feet at least. Using velcro, magnets or spring loaded clips is just paying lip service to the idea of securing floorboards. Consider something in the bilge coming loose and hitting the bottom of the floorboards (a battery, tool bag, stores or anything), That would pop the velcro, magnet or spring catch off in a heart beat.


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## kerry (Dec 31, 2007)

*Ok, I think I see the point*

I was only looking at from my perspective, which so far keeps me out of situations that could cause a rollover. But, down the line, I can see that if I do some extended trips to far away places where you could encounter weather or sea conditions that could roll the boat, it could be useful. I am still somewhat of a newbie next to a lot of you guys.


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## merttan (Oct 14, 2007)

6 inch galvenized nails from homedepot... Make sure they go all the way through the hull...   Just kidding (in case if someone takes it seriously)

Industrial velcro (the plastic ones) should be OK... Afterall, boards are going to be stacked side by side to avoid sliding, all you need is a little attachment to keep them down...


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## BigNige (May 28, 2007)

Why not use 3M Dual Lock? Much better than Velcro.


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

Don't know if this would work on all boats, but on BR there is a small 'kick space' at floor level under benches and other bits of cabinetry. I've cut small blocks of pine to fit between the sole and the underside of these 'kick spaces' which wedges the floor in place in these areas. In other areas, e.g. passage ways, I have cut pieces of 1x2 pine to fit athwartship to secure the floors. All of these pieces are capable of being tightly wedged in place. I've labled all the pieces indicating where they go and where mulitiple pieces of wood are used together in one place I've used a cable tie to keep them together. They all are stored beneath the sole in one cabin ready for use should we have to rig for heavy weather. 



It may not be a perfect sollution, but the construction of the floors and the structure beneath them made it impossible to use the screw-latch like things pictured above. The big advantage of the wedge system was cost and it also eliminated the need for drilling holes in the soles.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Hey, it works at the partners and the mast step, so it can't be too wrong!


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

On the topic of Velcro and similar systems:

There are a great many offshore racing yachts using "hook-and-loop" to hold, not so much floorboards, but certainly ceiling/lining panels on - mainly to save weight of nails! 

So long as there is nothing heavy behind, they'll stay there forever - even in the event of a knockdown. The biggest drawback with using velcro for floorboards is that crap from the bilges will reduce adhesion to nothing in fairly short order.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I think we are talking at cross-purposes then, because even on flat-bottomed racers, I've kept some things under the floorboards (like wrenches, screwdriver sets and hoses, some of them sealed in bags but all of them unattractive when airborne). Currently I stow jugs of oil, chain and eventually provisions in my bilges, which are customarily dry. I need lock-down floorboards...if I had nothing down there, I suppose velcro _might _secure the fairly substantial weight of the hatches..._maybe_...


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## bwindrope (Feb 25, 2007)

This has been timely and interesting to follow. I am outfitting Aeolus for a potential offshore trip from Puget Sound down south on the West Coast. One of my many current projects is to secure everything that can "fly". I just did my floorboards. Gulf 32's have three big, heavy, "please god don't hit me" floorboards right above the diesel. 

I had not thought of velcro, but these floorboards weigh like 15-20 lbs each and by personality I hedge on the overkill side of safety. What I've ended up doing, that is likely a Gulf 32 specific solution, is to actually install some pretty little ABI brass pad eyes, beefy little things, at four strategic points around the cabin sole area. Strung between them in time of need, is a piece of webbing with hooks on each end and an adjustable backpack style fastener in the middle for tightening. One strap on one side of the boards, and one on the other. On the one side, I run the webbing through the open hole finger pulls, so there is no way these boards are getting loose. When tightened up, the webbing lies right against the boards, is not a trip hazard as it is flat and on the sides out of the way, and despite all my efforts to budge them, these boards will not be going anywhere. 

I really like this solution on Aeolus because it was dirt cheap, totally 100% secure, took 30 minutes to install, and removable. My two cent experience.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

I can't imagine anyone contemplating going offshore not having the floorboards mechanically locked down. Planning on never getting knocked down is kind of like planning on never getting into an accident in your car; largely out of your control. Considering all the other equipment you will buy/install, floorboard locks are a small item that could prevent a dangerous event from being a tragic or fatal one. Imagine having one of your flooboards dropped on you from 6' above you, then decide how you want them secured. Same for anything else heavy, including what's under the floorboards (canned goods, spare parts, batteries, etc.). Just my opinion.

John


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

First of all, the OP said that everything under the cabin sole is already fastened down, and the velcro is just going to be used to hold the floorboards themselves in place. Industrial strength velcro should be able to do this, especially if he isn't planning on crossing oceans in his boat. Nothing in his post led me to believe he is doing this as preparation for crossing an ocean. 

If it were my boat, and I were planning on crossing an ocean, I would use mechanical fasteners for mainly one reason. The floorboards would act as a secondary restraint for anything in the bilges that might have been knocked free in a knockdown or rollover situation. Having redundancy in restraining things like batteries from bouncing around the cabin is a good idea in my book. 

For daysailing, coastal cruising and weekending... I think the velcro is probably sufficient.


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## arrghigotaboat (Jun 1, 2006)

Just to weigh in with my opinion (heh heh), I used industrial strength Velcro to hold the carpet down in my office. It is working great at holding down a berber style wall-to-wall carpet. It's strong enough that I was able to use a carpet stretcher to take out the wrinkles in the carpet. Although it can be pulled up vertically, it is virtually impossible to make it come loose with a shear pull along the floor. I tried the grey rough surface stuff and it didn't work worth a darn, but the 2" black industrial stuff from Wal-Mart at about 10 bucks a roll has my vote. You can easily cut it with a pair of scissors and it's self stick to boot. I've been planning to use this stuff on my boat for similar purposes. Also should note that besides dirt and crud, sunlight isn't too kind to hook and loop type fasteners.


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## luv4sailin (Jul 3, 2006)

Will the Velcro hold in a knock down when hit with the water from a half full bilge? And I don't think this will pass muster for off shore racing inspections. But it sure is better than nothing!


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

luv4sailin said:


> Will the Velcro hold in a knock down when hit with the water from a half full bilge? And I don't think this will pass muster for off shore racing inspections. But it sure is better than nothing!


Depends how much Velcro, the brand and method of fixing I suppose, but I doubt many offshore racers would use it to hold the floor-boards down if only becasue it will weaken with crap and water in it.

Linings, yes, floors, no.


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## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

*I think it does*



luv4sailin said:


> Will the Velcro hold in a knock down when hit with the water from a half full bilge? And I don't think this will pass muster for off shore racing inspections. But it sure is better than nothing!


I'm not 100% certain because I haven't gone through an offshore race inspection with it, but the new J Boats, including the bigger ones that definitely race offshore, are coming from the factory with the floorboards secured with this stuff. That's how I come to know about it (my yard is a J dealership, and they commission many a J Boat).


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

Remember David Letterman jumping up on to a wall in a velcro suit and it held him up? Use enough and you can tow your car.
pigslo


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## seanseamour (Feb 22, 2007)

*First hand experience*

After going through a 360° last May and loosing my vessel I would only install hinges plus turninglock lift to secure floorboards. Not all my boards were secured but even those with hinges plus lift latch exploded. Let me add one item often forgotten and that caused at least half my ten broken ribs - the salon tables are never secured relative to their mass and weight and need to be reinforced. recommend reading my lessons learned - don't leave port without them (google artseaprovence) to which I would like to add an 11th learned from the crew of the C-130 that spotted us : for all the glamor of sailing gear there is only one color to retain - yellow - of the three of us one of my crew was wearing red, it took the C-130 over an hour to confirm there were three in the shredded coverless liferaft as they could not see Ben in his red suit.
Fair winds to all
seanseamour


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## seanseamour (Feb 22, 2007)

*Floorboards*

After going through a 360° last May and loosing my vessel I would only install hinges plus turninglock lift to secure floorboards. Not all my boards were secured but even those with hinges plus lift latch exploded. Let me add one item often forgotten and that caused at least half my ten broken ribs - the salon tables are never secured relative to their mass and weight and need to be reinforced. recommend reading my lessons learned - don't leave port without them (google artseaprovence) to which I would like to add an 11th learned from the crew of the C-130 that spotted us : for all the glamor of sailing gear there is only one color to retain - yellow - of the three of us one of my crew was wearing red, it took the C-130 over an hour to confirm there were three in the shredded coverless liferaft as they could not see Ben in his red suit.
Fair winds to all
seanseamour


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Seanseamour,

Thanks for your post. I found your website to be very informative and helpful. I hope you won't mind if I post a direct link to your log book, which makes for highly instructive reading to anyone interested in how bad conditions can get while sailing off-shore:

Art and Sea in Provence :: s/v Sean Seamour II - the final log entry

Also, there is another on-going thread in the "SeaManship" forum concerning storm tactics, which you may be interested in contributing to. I may post the above link in that thread as well.


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## stuartbell (Nov 14, 2004)

I used Velcro on my cat - was in place for several years before she sold. Used small strips of Velcro with foam tape of a similar thickness covering most of the edge - to keep the thickness even and avoid rattle.

But, my cat would be unlikely to roll over, and if she did, I don't think sole boards would be my biggest concern.  /Stu


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