# Avaricious parasites, Riviera Beach Marina



## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

Riviera Beach Marina Charged our Credit Card $2816.51 for Five Nights !

April 20, 2018. On our way home to Ontario from the Bahamas we sustained significant damage as we were dangerously waked in the Lake Worth inlet by a 60’ sportfisher. We limped our way to anchor and called Riviera Beach Marina to try and get a slip as we desperately needed help with repairs. They told us we could have a slip in about four days and asked for a credit card to secure it. We stayed at anchor for four days til’ we could get a slip and begin the search for help and parts.

We informed the marina that we did not know how long we’d need the slip as we didn’t know how long repairs would take but that we’d book for a month and adjust later. They immediately billed our credit card for $2,568US and the following day another $248.51 ! This is four days before we even got there !

JAS Marine helped us get parts and repairs in an amazing 5 days. We checked out of Riviera Beach after only 5 nights and asked them to adjust our bill to the credit back the months payment and charge us the daily rate for the five days and return our $1,284 US security deposit. They responded that we’ll get our security deposit back in 2-3 weeks and told us there would be no credit for the month they charged us for. We obviously complained and were told by Harbour Master “Lee”, “that’s the way it is”.

These avaricious people take advantage of people in distress.
They charged our credit card $1,532.51 US for a five night stay and we still don’t have our $1,284 security deposit back.

Give these people a credit card at your own peril.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Wow, hearing this story, at first thought I guessed you were screwed by a Mexican marina. Being a US based company you might have ways to redress this.

Call the credit card company and contest the charges.

Post a review on Active Captain, Google Reviews and anywhere else you can to spread the word.

If you lived nearby you could take the Lee to small claims court. It is likely not worth their time to show up to court and you would automatically win if they don't.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Dang... you was robbed! I would contest the charges with your cc company. There is no cost or risk in that for you.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

How disappointing. Sounds like highway robbery BP.

I've always found most boaters and marine service operators to be kind and generous, especially in your kind of situations. I've had two marinas give me slips for free (both for nearly a week) while I was dealing with engine problems. This one sounds more like extortion.

It looks like there's a lot of competition in the area, so hopefully if the word gets out about how they treat transients in trouble, they'll be forced to change their ways. You should post a review on Active Captain and Waterway Guide.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

I'll second calling your credit card company and disputing the charges. 

Did you post in another thread what happened with the boat wake and what damages you sustained?


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I also would be calling my credit card company.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

Sorry guys. Error in my first post says "April 20th" Should read "March 20th"


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## Jammer Six (Apr 2, 2015)

Sounds to me like you rented a slip for a month, regardless of what you intended to do.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

As an American Citizen I apologize for the bad manners of my countrymen on both accounts. I have experienced being badly waked by arrogant “sport” fishermen. I’ve been lucky enough to not sustain damage or personal injury. 

Perhaps a second approach to redress, if you could identify the culprit, would be to put an insurance claim against the bugger who wakes you. Although he is probably a lawyer himself.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

ActiveCaptain has 63 reviews of Riviera Beach City Marina 3 out of 5 stars. The most recent review reads:



> Four Stars - great docks, helpful dock hands, 2018-02-05
> Captain: Capt. Steve And Lynne, St. Augustine FL (1220)
> 
> Well appointed docks with friendly, knowledgeable staff to get you into your slip. Nice fuel dock. Great restaurant on site. We ate there twice this visit and twice on our last stay. Only 4 stars because the laundry, showers and bathrooms need a facelift. Some of each were out of order too.
> ...


Regarding the wake that caused your damage; Any damage that can be attributed to the 60-foot sportfisher is _their _responsibility. You did file a report with the coast guard - right? It seems that you have a case against the operator of that vessel.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Boatpoker

sorry this happened to you. What they did may be legal, I don't know - but it's not nice. Forewarned.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I've only stopped there once to get fuel. They didn't impress me at all and I got the feeling that they were the "screw you" type of marina if you weren't a 100' boat type.

Unless you signed an agreement that the marina can produce your credit card company is going to take your side if you dispute it.


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

Don0190 said:


> Unless you signed an agreement that the marina can produce your credit card company is going to take your side if you dispute it.


I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think this is true. My experience with disputing credit card charges is they will only determine whether you authorized the charge, which the original poster did. They will not get involved in any disputes, refunds or return issues.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Slayer said:


> I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think this is true. My experience with disputing credit card charges is they will only determine whether you authorized the charge, which the original poster did. They will not get involved in any disputes, refunds or return issues.


Yes if they can prove that. But if you didn't sign anything it's just their word aganist yours and you are their customer. I've only ever challenged a couple of credit card charges, but "won" all of them.


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## flee27 (Jan 16, 2018)

I know it is off topic but like JimMcGee I am also interested in the damage caused by being waked. Must have been very violent. Glad it wasn't worse and their was no personal injuries.

Foster


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## lillia28 (Aug 12, 2011)

The security deposit should never have been billed. The deposit is in "escrow" in case you don't pay, or in the event you do damage to the property. Since you did pay, and I am assuming did not damage the property, that part at least should be returned. Definitely contact your credit card company. The first question they will ask is if you have contacted the "seller'. You should call and ask for a detailed explanation, for your self and the credit card company. Keep notes. It is possible it is a simple billing mistake, or the security deposit credit hasn't posted yet. I said possible. 

I have not had to call a credit card company many times in my life, but they have been very helpful over the years. Sometimes, just the fact that they receive notice from the credit company will change their attitude. I would not despair yet, approach as a simple business misunderstanding and be firm about getting an explanation. If they are not business like, or cannot/willnot give a rational explanation, that will hold weight with the credit card company. My experience is that most people in the sailing community are pleasant to deal with. I realize this is a marina, but give them the benefit of the doubt, until there is no doubt. I am hoping this will resolve in a way that is fair to you.
Lou


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

boatpoker said:


> We informed the marina that we did not know how long we'd need the slip as we didn't know how long repairs would take but that *we'd book for a month* and adjust later.


As most people know, there are often two sides to every story, and while I definitely don't dispute that this sounds like a frustrating and upsetting situation, it would be interesting to hear the marina's version of events.

I'm guessing that the above fact would be central to the telling of their side of the story.

But all the same, this sucks for Boatpoker because clearly it was an unintended and unexpected outcome.


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

If there was an agreement to adjust later then it implies that the stay may be less than a month and I would guess that this is the major discrepancy in the dispute. There is no question that the deposit will be refunded but the timing in which that occurs is an entirely different matter. It is certainly worth talking to both the marina as well as the credit card company to come to an amicable resolution.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

boatpoker said:


> We checked out of Riviera Beach after only 5 nights and asked them to adjust our bill to the credit back the months payment and charge us the daily rate for the five days and return our $1,284 US security deposit. They responded that we'll get our security deposit back in 2-3 weeks and told us there would be no credit for the month they charged us for. We obviously complained and were told by Harbour Master "Lee", "that's the way it is".





hpeer said:


> Perhaps a second approach to redress, if you could identify the culprit, would be to put an insurance claim against the bugger who wakes you. Although he is probably a lawyer himself.


Maybe it was Lee the Harbour Master driving the big power boat.:wink

It would be interesting to see how a settlement against the sport fisher would work. Without video of the incident and proof the boat was damaged by this incident, it might be hard to win a case. Just in case call an attorney, visit his chiropractor and start wearing a neck brace.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

It was just within within the last year or two that some Florida “professional” drove some kind of “go fast fishing boat” into a restaurant, about 4 tables back from the water.

Arrogance of the monied. Like the guy who blew past me in Fort Worth I let with FOUR 300 HP motors on the stern. AH.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

When we were on Forked River in NJ we were having issues with a boat throwing some BIG wakes. 

The Coast Guard said we needed to file a complaint with the local LEO's for any damages. Thankfully all we had were a few things knocked off the galley counter. A couple of weeks later, same guy throwing a big wake, and a couple of sailboats got their masts tangled up. The way I heard the story he was liable for the damages and fined. It supposedly affected his drivers license but I was hearing things third hand.

The point is the local police department may be where you'd go to file a complaint, and I wouldn't be surprised if they already know about him.

Sorry to hear all this happened to you, but the good news is no one was hurt.


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## danvon (Dec 10, 2012)

JimMcGee said:


> When we were on Forked River in NJ we were having issues with a boat throwing some BIG wakes.
> 
> The Coast Guard said we needed to file a complaint with the local LEO's for any damages. Thankfully all we had were a few things knocked off the galley counter. A couple of weeks later, same guy throwing a big wake, and a couple of sailboats got their masts tangled up. The way I heard the story he was liable for the damages and fined. It supposedly affected his drivers license but I was hearing things third hand.


Is there an operator's license requirement for a boat in NJ now? Or do you mean his auto driver's license?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Pursuing the credit card company is worth a shot here. Insuring they are aware of your effort to tell your story on social media is powerful too. Don't just tell it, let them know you're going to tell it. I hate to see sailors in distress, not getting some leeway from marinas. In my experience, marinas are usually pretty accommodating to breakdowns and issues like this. 

However, I assume the marina is taking the position that a month was requested and reserved, so they are entitled. I fear they probably are. Did they agree to the "adjust later" concept, or was that wishful thinking? If you had to wait four days to get a slip, I presume it's fairly popular or has limited space. If they penciled the slip out for a month, it stands to reason they could have turned down other requests in the meantime. 

I presume the marina is going to make the argument that you simply wanted the cheaper rate, whatever the outcome. If they charged the daily rate and the stay exceeded the cost of the monthly fee, even if it was only a couple of weeks, would you have insisted on the lower monthly rate? It seems the daily rate turned out to be lower than monthly, but have to admit that I don't know of any marinas that will allow the transient to pick the lower of the outcomes, after the fact. 

Still, I wish they had more sympathy for the distress and am sorry to hear of all the trouble. Yes, find that sport fisher who is ultimately responsible for this. What actually broke?


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Minnewaska said:


> However, I assume the marina is taking the position that a month was requested and reserved, so they are entitled. I fear they probably are. Did they agree to the "adjust later" concept, or was that wishful thinking? If you had to wait four days to get a slip, I presume it's fairly popular or has limited space. If they penciled the slip out for a month, it stands to reason they could have turned down other requests in the meantime.


I think this would apply only if there is signed contract for a month long lease. Otherwise this marina can take random reservations over the phone, take the credit card and then charge whatever they can get away with.

Besides the letter of the law there is "simply doing the right thing." According to the story they are so booked up that they can't find room at their dock for a boat in distress for 4 days. It stands to reason they are at capacity every night and the slips never go unoccupied. They want to keep Boat Pokers money and then rent the slip out for the remainder of the month. I would expect this kind of corruption in Mexico, not the U.S..

If I were BP, I would go over Lee the dockmaster's head, it may he is just lazy or corrupt, or this corruption could be company policy. Start communicating with someone in the main office.

I would write a convincing argument on why you should only pay a reasonable rate for just the days you were there. How the current situation looks like the company took advantage of a passing boat in distress. How their overcharging and keeping a deposit long after is reasonable has created hardships to your cruising budget. Make sure your arguments and fact are all truthful, but write your argument to make them look bad in the eyes of a potential future customer.

If you don't get help from someone higher up go over their heads to the corporate office or media/marketing department with a copy of the reviews you will be posting on social media.


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

Lee has been with them for about 3 years, he was a dock master in St Thomas prior to that. I've always been treated fairly, but new management, hired by the City, took over about a year ago just after they completed the new facilities, club and restaurant. Since that time prices have gone up and customer service has gone down. It's tough to get a slip or even haul your boat out this time of year in South FL. Sorry to hear about the damage caused by sport fish vessel, that inlet can get pretty gnarly on the weekends, most boaters are fairly considerate, but there are a few large sport fish captains that should have their license suspended.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

JimMcGee said:


> It supposedly affected his drivers license but I was hearing things third hand.





danvon said:


> Is there an operator's license requirement for a boat in NJ now? Or do you mean his auto driver's license?


If true, it would have gone against his driver's license. Same as a BUI is treated as a DUI in NJ.

Other states may be different.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Boatpoker.

Any follow up on this story? I am hoping you got this worked out.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

Finally got my $1,284 security deposit back but it still cost me $1284 (monthly rate) for five nights.
Not me best memory of this trip.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Glad you got the security deposit back. That was outrageous that it seemed to take so long. 

I assume they are maintaining the position that you asked for a monthly rate, so that's what you were charged? Did you try to dispute this with the credit card company? I'm not sure it would work, but may be worth a try. Maybe they'll at least split the difference or something similar.

I still think that a marina should (and typically do) show a mariner in distress a bit more slack, but most marinas I visit will expect to keep the fee for what is booked, regardless of whether one even shows up. The fact that they get paid twice for re-renting a vacant slip is part of the business. I remember when I first learned of the practice decades ago. I was offended, but it's clearly how it works.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Although I agree that that place sounds pretty sleazy I also have to ask a question;

How many rich marina owners do you know?

I only know of one - the previous owner of the marina I use - the best one in B.C.

Most of the rest seem to be fairly hand to mouth.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Minnewaska said:


> The fact that they get paid twice for re-renting a vacant slip is part of the business. I remember when I first learned of the practice decades ago. I was offended, but it's clearly how it works.


Since it took him a few days to even get a slip when in distress, I am going assume they were able to fill the slip the day BP left. In this case they got paid 3 times for the same slip, unless they charge everyone in distress for a month and refuse to refund the difference.

I wonder what would happen if you came back a day or a week later and asked to be put back in "your" slip?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

dan-
"Is there an operator's license requirement for a boat in NJ now? Or do you mean his auto driver's license?"
Not quite. But all persons driving motor propelled vessels in the state of NJ (over a certain size/hp limit IIRC) are required to have a certificate of competency, either from a national authority (i.e. the online boater courses) or from their native state.
It doesn't matter if you just wandered halfway across the Hudson from NY, if you are in NJ waters you are required to be certified.
And if you commit certain types of violations in several states, they go against your driver's license as a means of making sure you pay attention. The same way that you lose your driver's license if you don't pay child support.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"The fact that they get paid twice for re-renting a vacant slip is part of the business. "
Same thing the airlines do. Your ticket is non-transferable, non-refundable, and if you aren't at the gate at departure time? TFB, it goes to standby sales. Which used to be CHEAP since it filled unsold seats, but now you pay extra to even get put on the standby list.

As Lily Tomlin said "Because we're the telephone company and we don't have to give a damn."


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

hellosailor said:


> Same thing the airlines do. Your ticket is non-transferable, non-refundable, and if you aren't at the gate at departure time? TFB, it goes to standby sales.


Airlines go a step beyond that. Now they oversell seats, knowing some people won't show. If they need to bump someone they find out who paid the least and drag them out, so the staff can fly.


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## flyingriki (Sep 27, 2012)

And they put some airline puke in charge of Amtrak now so trains will pull the same stunts. Already announced it....
I argued with a marina once over prorating my slip fee on a boat I sold when I found out they charged the new owner the whole month. Their answer - move him to another empty slip nearby. Disgusting practice.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

jephotog said:


> Since it took him a few days to even get a slip when in distress, I am going assume they were able to fill the slip the day BP left. In this case they got paid 3 times for the same slip, unless they charge everyone in distress for a month and refuse to refund the difference.
> 
> I wonder what would happen if you came back a day or a week later and asked to be put back in "your" slip?


Good question on what would happen, if he came back.

You may be right about the multiple charging, but it didn't read like the marina required a month to be paid. I read that the OP could have chosen to pay by the day, but asked for the discounted monthly rate, in case it took longer, then left early and wanted the old daily rate deal back.

I think they should have given it to him, as a sailor in distress. I think most would. However, for standard booking practice, none I know would refund a partial period, whether you arrived late or left early.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Many marinas I've stayed at in Fla certainly are in the business of gouging their transient customers. The worst case I've run across was Pier 66. Unknown to me, on this holiday weekend, they raised their transient rate from about $3.00 a foot to $10.00! I was expecting a bill in the neighborhood of $300.00 (certainly expensive enough), but it cost me a bit over grand for 3 days for a 33' boat! 
In another incident as a professional yachtmaster, after paying a large, well known Dania boatyard our $250,00.00 bill, instead of a "thank you for your business", the manager said, "When can you move the boat? We need the space." Man, did that piss me off and I've never taken a boat back there.
With the increasing pressure to collect their "cruising" tax on transient boats, the decreasing availability of places to anchor, the difficulty of finding competent and honest repair people and the general rudeness and revenue seeking practices of the local LEO's, I made the decision many years ago that Fla was off my itinerary and haven't been back since.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Maybe the lesson is; reserve a short stay and then extend if needed instead of doing the other way. I've only stopped in the marina in question once for fuel and they made me feel pretty small in only needing 40 gal of diesel. I bet most of the marinas down in the rich south florida couldn't give a crap about a sailboater in general.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Don0190 said:


> Maybe the lesson is; reserve a short stay and then extend if needed instead of doing the other way. I've only stopped in the marina in question once for fuel and they made me feel pretty small in only needing 40 gal of diesel. I bet most of the marinas down in the rich south florida couldn't give a crap about a sailboater in general.


In general, a place like that will have the slip booked at the end of your "short stay" and you would have to move out. I don't think the OP could take that chance w/his problems.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

If you are broken down then you are broken down. They can say move, but ...


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Don0190 said:


> If you are broken down then you are broken down. They can say move, but ...


Sorry, but it just isn't like that. If they want a boat removed from their marina, all they have to do is call a commercial tow boat and quick as a bunny you are off to wherever the tow boat operator wishes, even if it's an unsafe anchorage. The boat owner has some input, but not much, even though he is responsible for the bill. No laws here protecting the slip renter, as there are for those renting a dwelling ashore.
It could go to court, after the fact, but the deck is stacked against those with the shallowest pockets. Marinas and boat yards have some very powerful laws on their side. Just try to get your boat launched before you pay the bill, even if there are debatable charges on it, and you will see that.


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