# It's Not Less Expensive to Live on A Boat!



## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Next week my wife and I will have been on our boat full time for 5 years. We keep track of the costs for this and I am going to break people's fantasies here. It is NOT less expensive to live on a boat. Sure maybe if you pick and chose the lifestyle, house, marina etc. you can get it to work out. But I think that is a big maybe.

The last 5 years we have spent $24,800 on boat insurance, marinas, water and electric. But we have also owned a house in Jacksonville for 4 years of that time that we rented out to our daughter so know the costs of that. The 5 years costs of that 1200 sq ft 3BR/2BA house for payment, electric, water, insurance, taxes works out to about $52,000 over a 5 year period and that is for a pretty low cost house (way less than what a rental would have cost)

Sounds that boats are less expensive doesn't it. Boat = $24,800 and house = $52,000, right?

In 5 years the house has a new roof $8000, both bathrooms remodeled $1000, general maintenance and repair $1000, for a total of $10,000. I have owned houses for 40 years now and except for things like a roof or big remodel they don't really cost that much to maintain.

Meanwhile the last 5 years on the boat for maintenance, repair, and upgrades has cost us $50,545.

So for the house it is $62,000 and the boat it is $75,345. And this doesn't even account for the smaller space, what the boat cost, and that we have anchored or had cheap moorings most of time on the boat.

Now I am sure if you just anchored out under a bridge and let the boat fall apart it would be less than living on land in a house/apartment. But that would be more equal to living in a tent as a homeless person.


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## Davy J (Mar 25, 2017)

Come on man.........

There are two 27' Catalina's anchored at Longboat Pass, been there for more than five years, they haven't spent $1000.00 between the two of them......well, except for batteries for their camping lanterns they pass off as anchor lights...

BTW, you give up on the other forum? Haven't seen you there in a while.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

Wow! 2 bathroom re-models for $1,000 ? I'll have two please


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

The other big issue is that, at least over time, boats depreciate in value while houses appreciate. Changes the economic calculations significantly.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Last 4 years I've put about US$40,000 into my house maintenance. 

On the boat I have been in northern Europe including 3 winters in a marina in centsal London, summer in a marina in Amsterdam... Not used the anchor at all. 
So all premium marinas/areas. 

Marina costs over 4 years about US$60,000.

Boat life is only cheap at anchor in a low cost supermarket area. 


Mark


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

The area changes everything. Good thread.

Taxes on my house alone are $10,000/year (northern VA). Not big, just expensive area with small houses at $1M.
My marina is $125 per month with elelctric (45' x 18' slip, Chesapeake Bay).
If the house was in the country and the boat was in Annapolis this would be reversed.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Davy J said:


> Come on man.........
> 
> There are two 27' Catalina's anchored at Longboat Pass, been there for more than five years, they haven't spent $1000.00 between the two of them......well, except for batteries for their camping lanterns they pass off as anchor lights...
> 
> BTW, you give up on the other forum? Haven't seen you there in a while.


But that doesn't compare. For those boats you compare to living in a tent under the highway bridge.

....they dont want me there and i am tired of their power play crap


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

tempest said:


> Wow! 2 bathroom re-models for $1,000 ? I'll have two please


Well just like for my boat, I am cheap labor.


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## pcmm (Jan 31, 2014)

Don L said:


> Next week my wife and I will have been on our boat full time for 5 years. We keep track of the costs for this and I am going to break people's fantasies here. It is NOT less expensive to live on a boat. Sure maybe if you pick and chose the lifestyle, house, marina etc. you can get it to work out. But I think that is a big maybe.
> 
> The last 5 years we have spent $24,800 on boat insurance, marinas, water and electric. But we have also owned a house in Jacksonville for 4 years of that time that we rented out to our daughter so know the costs of that. The 5 years costs of that 1200 sq ft 3BR/2BA house for payment, electric, water, insurance, taxes works out to about $52,000 over a 5 year period and that is for a pretty low cost house (way less than what a rental would have cost)
> 
> ...


Your housing costs are ridiculously cheap! by comparison my 1200sqft townhouse for the same period costs me $124,000 that's mortgage, property taxes, gas, hydro and sewage. that would make livingaboard roughtly 1/2 the cost of being in a house! For me livingaboard is definitely less expensive that house life.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

We compare our cost of the boat as less expensive than owning a second home on the water in RI. Not only does the boat cost substantially less to acquire, just the taxes on a waterfront property would run $20k-$40k per year and up. The boat is, on the other hand, more expensive that our primary home, by a notable margin.

Better still, we are currently on a mooring in front a dozens of multi-million waterfront homes. We worked all morning, but were in the cockpit having lunch and ran garbage into town. We realized that we are fully engaged with where we are all the time. I bet those in the waterfront homes have a comfy chair in which they watch TV and doesn't’ really matter where it is.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Maybe I am just a frugal home buyer.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

My experience was a bit different, granted I haven't lived aboard since 2014. 

Bought my first live aboard, 1974 Grampian 30 in fair condition for $7500. Bare bones boat, but capable great lakes cruiser. Annual costs;
$5000/year for slips, nice high end Toronto Marinas (Marina 4). 
Insurance about $900/year with liveaboard premium.
Maintenance ~$1500 year, a lot of it in the Atomic 4.
$7400/year.

Prior to buying the boat was living in a 1 bedroom apartment ~$1900 per month. Rental so no insurance, property taxes or maintenance. $22800 per year.

After 3 years sold the G30 for $5000 to a freind. So lost $2500 on devaluation over 3 years.

Total housing costs on boat for 3 years ~ $24700 (slip + maintenance + insurance + devaluation).

Total cost to rent for 3 years in Tororonto $68400.

Savings over 3 years of living on the sailboat ~$43700. 

So it was definitely much cheaper for me to live on a boat in Toronto than rent. The math would be completely different where I am now.


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## Zemurray (Oct 28, 2018)

pdqaltair said:


> The area changes everything. Good thread.
> 
> Taxes on my house alone are $10,000/year (northern VA). Not big, just expensive area with small houses at $1M.
> My marina is $125 per month with elelctric (45' x 18' slip, Chesapeake Bay).
> If the house was in the country and the boat was in Annapolis this would be reversed.


$125 a month for a 45' slip? Is that the going rate up there ?


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## Zemurray (Oct 28, 2018)

Don L said:


> Maybe I am just a frugal home buyer.


Yes, sounds like you are very frugal on your home, and spare no expense on the boat. My house in the midwest in a middle income neighborhood is significantly more expensive than that. The bathroom remodel I just did was $12000, even without labor the materials were half that. Its not super fancy either. by the same token, I have about as much in my boat as you, but thats only because it was hit by hurricane Sally, without that I would be half of yours and I spare no expense on it.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Zemurray said:


> $125 a month for a 45' slip? Is that the going rate up there ?


No, I suspect it is a bargain. The slip is shallow, about 3 feet at low water. It's a bare bones marina. I've been in the marina for 27 years. But consider how much shoreline the Chesapeake has, and how many creeks suitable for docks. Nearly unlimited, with a lot of vacancies. Unless you need to be where the cool kids are, the prices are much lower off the beaten path. I've heard lower prices.

My house, on the other hand, is in a desirable place where they sell fast. No bargains, and new town houses into 7 figures. That said, the house has appreciated enough to be a respectable part of my portfolio.

Overall, the OP has a point. If you compare apples to apples (comfortable boat, comparable house), boats are not cheap. We just have a different sense of comfort on a boat.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Before I became a cruiser and had a 2BR/1.5BA house in New Hampshire I did a similar comparison. At the time I kept my boat on a marina mooring during the season and hauled it out in winter. The boats costs came out less, but not by that much really considering the boat only got used around 60 days a year.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

It's certainly less expensive for me.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

MikeOReilly said:


> It's certainly less expensive for me.


Including beer?

LOL


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

DonL;

I don’t know about the comparison, we have a rental property we lived in so that got to the point where it was cash positive.

However, if you add in the value of “the quality of life” then living aboard wins hands down.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I looked up my old live aboard marina in Toronto. This is premium Toronto real estate, not some back water anchorage. 20 minute walk to the City Centre Airport, 8 minute walk to professional baseball and football, 20 minute walk to professional Hockey, restaurants, pubs, parks, public transport, groceries immediately available. Showers and laundry at the end of the dock, mobile pump out, comes by while you're at work.

I checked their updated rates and the rates have gone up since I lived there, but it is still cheaper than renting almost any apartment. About `$8000 for a 30 foot boat or ~$10000 for a 35 ft boat for 12 months.

This is a city where the average (not downtown waterfront, just the average) condo sells for ~ $1 million (not counting utilities, property tax, maintenance fees) and the average detached house sells for $1.7 million. Just the mortgage payments on a small condo could be over $40 000 per year, 4 times the slip fees. It would be way cheaper for me to live on a sailboat in Toronto.


















My second live aboard docked at the Marina ~ January. 24000 pound boat, very comfortable live aboard.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

hpeer said:


> Including beer?
> LOL


Good beer is an essential, no matter where I live 🍺 .


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

We've never tracked costs or really cared what it cost. We can't even imagine a better life.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

hpeer said:


> Including beer?
> 
> LOL


Beer had it's own category back in old days.

I am currently in a secret marina in downtown Jacksonville next to $$$$$ townhouses. Town center is a 5 minute walk, the football, baseball, and concert centers area 10 minute. I am paying $330/mo for slip/water/electric. If I stayed in a nicer place it would be around $1000. I sold my 3br/2ba house here to my daughter and her payment is $523 plus around $150 for water/electric = $673.

Those of your living in $$$$$$$$ houses made your choice. I retired at 56 instead.

But boat life isn't cheap unless you get down closer to second and third level of boat scum living IMO.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Don L said:


> Those of your living in $$$$$$$$ houses made your choice. I retired at 56 instead.


I lived in an even cheaper house and retired at 45. Our experience with relative costs is the same as yours. However, if there was a way to accurately compare "niceness" of houses to boats, I bet they would cost the same to live in. People's differences in experience here probably reflect the difficulty in objectively comparing houses with boats.

Mark


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

When I moved onto my boat, I wasn't comparing it to a house, I didn't buy my house until I was 39, with money I had saved by living on my boat 🤣

I was comparing it to studio and one bedroom downtown apartments. It made no sense for me to have a house, I was a professional sailor, I was away working on ships 6-8 months a year and traveling for a month or two as well. The apartments I kept were bare bones, no tv, didn't usually eat at home, preferred to eat out, I was only there a few months a year, just somewhere for my mail to go, keep my motorcycle and snow board. But good neighbourhoods, because I like good restaurants.

Going from a 350 sq ft studio apartment to a 30 ft boat isn't a big adjustment to make. As with my apartments, I prioritised location over living space. We just moved back home for the kids to go to school after living in a 19 ft travel trailer for most of the last several months. I will always take outdoor space and location over comfort. Boats are good for that.

⛵⛵⛵


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

For us, there's no question we live cheaper since selling the land house and moving into the cruising lifestyle. For us it means about 1/2 the year on the boat (in normal years anyway), and 1/2 the year doing other stuff (house sitting mostly). The boat months are the least expensive part of our year.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Marinas and a land centric lifestyle...sure, a given

Mark was right on with the anchoring

You...not everyone


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## Izzy (Feb 14, 2016)

If the boat is well-equipped with an adequate watermaker, generator/solar, refrigeration and fuel stores, and is able to remain in anchorages just outside of a town with a supermarket, life on a boat (sail or power) can be much cheaper than on land. Foremost, the boat must be in very good condition to begin with and not requiring an ongoing series of delayed repairs. Adequate stocks of spare parts must also be onboard along with an owner who can accomplish necessary repairs when they arise.

The cost of food, marine labor and other boating necessities can be much cheaper in other countries such as Greece, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Southeast Asia and Central America just to name a few.

Life on a marina or shipyard dependent boat in American will be a different and much more expensive experience.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Izzy said:


> equipped with an adequate watermaker...........able to remain in anchorages


This is the part of long term living aboard that I find requires the most planning. Second is pumping out the holding tank. Running a watermaker in an anchorage is a very risky thing, as any contaminants could ruin it. Even water one may take on, from shore, could ruin the watermaker, if it contains chlorine and is used to back flush.

There is a family that lives on a mooring, in our marina (Mom, Dad and ~10 yr old). I see them shuttling over to the fuel dock frequently, for water and pump out. What a pain. The fuel dock pumpout is free. There is a boat that will pump you out, at your slip or mooring, but you pay for that convenience.

An inadequate water supply, or a holding tank whose full light just came on, can be the things that make boat life too much like camping. The solutions (paid services or bigger boats, with large tankage) get pricey for sure.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> This is the part of long term living aboard that I find requires the most planning. Second is pumping out the holding tank. Running a watermaker in an anchorage is a very risky thing, as any contaminants could ruin it. Even water one may take on, from shore, could ruin the watermaker, if it contains chlorine and is used to back flush.
> 
> There is a family that lives on a mooring, in our marina (Mom, Dad and ~10 yr old). I see them shuttling over to the fuel dock frequently, for water and pump out. What a pain. The fuel dock pumpout is free. There is a boat that will pump you out, at your slip or mooring, but you pay for that convenience.
> 
> An inadequate water supply, or a holding tank whose full light just came on, can be the things that make boat life too much like camping. The solutions (paid services or bigger boats, with large tankage) get pricey for sure.


Why is "shuttling over to the dock" a pain?

For sure it does take time.... and on land water simple comes from the tap. So keeping tanked up is part of the package when living on / using a sailboat. You do need fuel and water and you typically have to got to a dock to find it.
For one.... the time to get from where I am mooring or anchored to a "fuel dock" is about 10 -15 minutes... and the same to return to the spot in the anchorage or where I am moored. Tanking on fuel and water takes maybe the same time. I often do a quickie wash down too. I do not make a huge effort to not use water. I don't waste it either. But as water is so available because there are so many boats and selling fuel is a needed service... finding a fuel dock in not a problem. There are also docks without fuel but with water... Newport has several including Fort Adams where I often go and walk the dog at the same time. Motoring for re fuel, water top off also gives my refer cooling as I have an engine drive refer and adds back amps consumed when anchored or moored.

I don't drink tank water and only use it for cleaning.... The pain in the butt is lugging gallons of drinking water.

Tying your shoes is a pain in the butt too... I used slip ons and avoid lace ups. So I don't wear sneakers.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

The usage of a boat is an important consideration. 

I am living aboard with a tourism imperative. 
The boat is accommodation in tourist places compared to hotel or resort prices. It's not compared to my house in Sydney that's rented out. 

The galley is a cost saving eating place compared to 3 x restaurant meals per day. 

My boat gets me to a snorkling or diving spot instead of paying a local tourist company. 

My boat is not my house. It's the ability to be a tourist for life in a manner that fits my budget. 

The boat also helped with my 2 African safari trips (and future land based travel) because I can move the boat to a cheap airline country. 
For example flights from New York to Nairobi are (usually in non Covid times) us$600. But from Australia $2,000 and from Grenada $1,500.

So I can piece a year together like a jigsaw puzzle of seasons, cheap places to leave the boat, nice anchorages, sailing and airline flights. 

As a full time tourist I'm doing more in my retirement than anyone I know. But I've so much more to do. I've done 74 countries so that's still only about one third of the UN! 

Mark


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## Izzy (Feb 14, 2016)

Outside of America, holding tanks and anchorage water clarity are a non-issue. The water tends to be crystal clear outside the US unrelated to pollution issues. Generally, the sea water in anchorages in the US cannot be used for watermakers due to excessive silt, oily films or excessive organic growth. We have no concerns in the Mediterranean or in the Caribbean using our watermakers in anchorages, and black water holding tanks can be emptied on the outgoing tide daily without effecting the environment in any way.

Its much cheaper to live in anchorages on a boat outside America than it is to live on land or on a boat in America. The American marina live-aboard experience cannot be extrapolated to estimate how much life aboard a boat will cost outside of America. Outside of the US, its much cheaper with less regulation and less material and labor costs.

I will give you some examples. Today, I made 70 imperial gallons of fresh water using my watermaker while anchored in western Greece a short distance outside a large town with several supermarkets. Last week I had our two stroke outboard motor repaired by a very competent technician at a shipyard for €35 per hour. This evening, dinner for four people on our yacht cost €4 total.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Life on a boat can be inexpensive, or it can cost a lot. It depends on your lifestyle, and how well you've planned and managed ongoing costs. Staying away from large, urban areas, and most especially away from popular touristy zones, goes a long way towards keeping costs down. But also starting with a well-found, modest, simple-to-maintain boat help a lot.

It should go without saying, but staying off a dock or a paid mooring, is key. Swinging from my own anchor, cooking my own meals, and generally not paying to be entertained, are what allow me (and she) to live inexpensively.


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## SV Moondog (Jul 20, 2021)

Don L said:


> But that doesn't compare. For those boats you compare to living in a tent under the highway bridge.
> 
> ....they dont want me there and i am tired of their power play crap





Don L said:


> But that doesn't compare. For those boats you compare to living in a tent under the highway bridge.
> 
> ....they dont want me there and i am tired of their power play crap


If you are referring to CF. They seem to have had a major glitch which is why we're seeing a lot of their old members here now (myself included). They kept telling me some baloney about how my server would not accept their downloads. It's working fine now but their host clearly does not have their act together. I have a less than stellar status with a couple of their female mods, so I thought they somehow jury rigged my account - but apparently they had nothing to do with it.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

SV Moondog said:


> If you are referring to CF. They seem to have had a major glitch which is why we're seeing a lot of their old members here now (myself included).


Welcome to the sunny side ?


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

pdqaltair said:


> No, I suspect it is a bargain. The slip is shallow, about 3 feet at low water. It's a bare bones marina. I've been in the marina for 27 years. But consider how much shoreline the Chesapeake has, and how many creeks suitable for docks. Nearly unlimited, with a lot of vacancies. Unless you need to be where the cool kids are, the prices are much lower off the beaten path. I've heard lower prices.


That's definitely a bargain slip for the region. I wouldn't consider my marina 'cool' but it does have deeper draft slips in a hurricane hole and is very competently managed and conveniently located to both DC and marine services, and I pay at least twice that price for my convenience (and could easily pay much more for a larger slip or more amenities or closer to Annapolis)


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