# First boat for small 9 yr old girl?



## jasenj1

I'd like to get my daughter her first sailboat. She's weighs about 50# soaking wet and is just over 4 feet tall. I thought an Optimist was the obvious choice, but wow  are those things expensive. I'm thinking $500 tops, preferably less.

Am I being too cheap? What other boats should I look at?

- Jasen.


----------



## jameswilson29

Sunfish, Sunfish clones, or even cheaper - a Snark Sunflower - built like a drink cooler, styrofoam covered with plastic - unsinkable - I learned on one. After she outgrows it you can bring it out for backyard barbeques.


----------



## Alex W

Watch Craigslist. With enough time you'll find an El Toro or Opti in your price range. You could make an El Toro too.

I have a Dyer Dhow Midget that was a little more than $500 and would be good for a kid to sail in, though it won't sail as well as an El Toro or Opti. Just keep an eye for all dinghies with sail kits. I see one or two options in your price range go by Seattle Craigslist every month.


----------



## Faster

Make it a family project and build your own Sabot!

5850--How to Build Sabot


----------



## Stumble

Build an opti. While they have gotten rediculously expensive the class originally was intended for home builds, and the specs are pretty easy to get right if you follow the designs. I haven't looked, but I am sure there are tons of websites detailing opti builds.


----------



## beachmont

I had a snark for years growing up , I loved it , it was fun , light boat , they made two types ,


----------



## svHyLyte

Faster said:


> Make it a family project and build your own Sabot!
> 
> 5850--How to Build Sabot


This is a great suggestion and I found working with one's daughter a lot of fun and will give her a real sense of accomplishment when your done. Let her pick the paint colors and design the painting scheme. The Sabot is a good boat but a Sabotina in stitch and glue can be built with two sheets of 1/4" ply in one's garage or basement and can easily be ready to launch by Spring. You'll/She'll love it.

FWIW...


----------



## flandria

I assume you are a sailor yourself. Question is, can your little girl sail already or is she just starting out? My grandson started when he was 8, at a local sailing school. I think lessons, and seeing how she handles herself, will help you. Also, will she be sailing alone - in which case you will want something with a single sail - or will she have "crew"? Remember, these things don't have an engine, so she must be able to return to dock even (especially) when there are off-shore winds. The boat must be light enough so that she can right it by herself when she turtles (and she will). So, the question is as much answered by the skills she has, if not more so, than the actual boat she will sail. She will be on her own out there, no matter how close you try and track her.


----------



## mad_machine

my first boat was a Minifish with a sunfish rig.. made for a VERY fast boat. 

Even thought it was built by AMF, it near impossible to destroy, as my numerous attempts to ram a dock proved


----------



## bljones

$500 should buy you a used sabot, sunfish, a good used snark, or, as suggested earlier, make it a father/daughter project and build a boat, although i recommend building a D4 and adding a polytarp sail and rig.
Let's build a boat - Our D4 Dinghy Project


----------



## jimgo

I can't sail on a Sunfish-style boat - I wear hearing aids and they can't get wet. So, for me, I had to find something that was a little "dryer" as a dinghy/tender/small boat. I wound up with a 14' Albacore. Light weight, stable, and fast. I'm looking forward to a break in the weather so I can polish her up and do some maintenance on her before we splash this spring. She will be my boys' boat (ages 7 and 5), or at least that's what I'm telling them. Basically, she's a nice, small boat on which they can learn to sail. Best of all, I picked her up, including the trailer, for $100 on Craigslist.


----------



## campuscab

I like a snark or sunfish. I have four kids and am asking myself the same question. I was leaning toward a sailing dinghy.I could use it also. The club next to me uses Flying Scotts to teach kids only a foot smaller than my cal and more money. I want something to row sail and motor, that way the kids will use it and learn all three skills.


----------



## Alex W

campuscab: This article has pretty brief but helpful reviews on 9 hard dinghies that handle row, sail, or motor:
Tenders: Making the Hard Choice | Cruising World

I have the Dyer Midget. It's fun to sail and rows nicely. It can motor too (I've put my 2hp Honda on it), though the rudder gungeons prevent me from mounting the motor on the centerline. Since it rows so nicely I don't see much reason to motor with it.


----------



## MarkofSeaLife

Hi Jasen,

There is only one dinghy that's truly international. It's been raced in every country I have been that has water... And I believe on lakes in some countries without sea access.
That's the Optimist.

The kids on these are learning faster than other dinghys because there's constant national and international championships. This month alone kids can race from local club level right up to international events on Oman, New Zealand, Brazil, Italy and the Netherlands... And that's just this month. http://www.optiworld.org/calendar.php

Yes the boats are more expensive than you are looking for, but there must be a vibrant second hand market. Once bought the boat expenses should be low.

One kid that races here in St Martin is 10 and he flies off to meets all over the Caribbean. All he takes is his kit bag and own sail, then races the host clubs boats. And wins! His ambition is the Olympics. An Optimist is a starting point.

Have a good think about it and sus out the scene.



> . What will it cost?
> In North America add around 30% to the prices below.
> Around US$500 a year.
> It works like this (very like the secondhand automobile market):
> US$ 500 - 800 buys a good first boat (pre-owned) - and you can expect to drop $200 when you sell
> Trade up every year or so. Reckon on adding around $300 a year to your investment
> When you sell your last Optimist you have the price of a good secondhand Laser or 420 - and the path to a lifetime of sailing
> If you want to buy new, beginners' boats start around $1,600 + any sales taxes. But see the warning on the technical page
> Add a good buoyancy aid/PFD (personal flotation device) and some clothes according to your local weather
> Check out fees at your local sailing club


 from the website above


----------



## jasenj1

Thanks for all the great advice. I also found this article that reviewed seven dinghies. The Laser Bug and Open Bic look very appealing. I like the idea of a boat that can't get swamped.

At this point I'm not looking to get her into competition, just learn skills and have fun.

I'll keep my eye on Craigslist and see what pops up.

- Jasen.


----------



## mad_machine

Have you considered a nutshell pram? IT is small enough to be used as a tender aboard most 30+ foot boats, can be towed easily, and it slow enough and with a high enough freeboard that it is very "seaworthy" for a small boat.

It is also quite cute.. which a 9 year old girl might really like


----------



## SHNOOL

For the record I started sailing at age 10. My friends had each snarks... one had the snark sandpiper (4 foot wide tub with a dagger, and 2 bench seats):








The other had a snark wildflower:









Later that year I got my brother's sunfish for myself. I was WAY faster... BUT... my tiny 100lbs wasn't enough to stand it back up! The mini-fish is probably easier, but the hull is still too heavy to deal with for a kid that age.

The optimists are OK... and with a dolly, can be more manageable for a kid (it's the size more than the weight).

Honestly, the easiest boat to deal with was the Sea Snark that was mine the following year. It was 100% foam (super thick). It was light (30lbs hull, at 11 feet long!)... and rigging was stupid simple. The boat wasn't a sunfish fast, but it sailed, and was tough as nails!

Mine was so tough, that 31 years later my brother still sails it (just for kicks). He had to sew a new sail for it, but it works great!

My point is, I'd be looking for a super snark (ABS plastic over styro), or Sea Snark (100% foam). They were light, can be purchased all day long for $200, and are simple to car top.

Once she's really into it. Get her a real sailing boat, like the minifish, or a laser pico, or open bic... by the time she's 13 you'll be looking for a full out laser.

PS: My daughter is going on 10 now (next month). She's just starting to like sailing (she road out a light rainstorm with me last year that drove us in 25+ knots, a wild ride for sure and she loved it)... but has no desire to try it herself. How do you get her to want to do this herself?


----------



## manatee

Hope this obfuscation works - Gavin Atkins has a fleet of simple, cheap homebuilt boats; you can get a preview at duckworks. He has a book of plans & info, as well. Some are single-sheet, one-weekend projects, nigh unsinkable. 

duckworksbbs.com/
plans/gavin/index.htm


----------



## jasenj1

SHNOOL said:


> PS: My daughter is going on 10 now (next month). She's just starting to like sailing (she road out a light rainstorm with me last year that drove us in 25+ knots, a wild ride for sure and she loved it)... but has no desire to try it herself. How do you get her to want to do this herself?


This is a bit off the topic and strays into armchair psychiatry, but I'll take a stab at it.

Find a role model she wants to emulate. For my daughter, she really likes reading, especially about young girls. So we had her read the American Girl Caroline series (set in the War of 1812 and revolves around sailing), and now she's reading "Swallows and Amazons" (a book about four children summering on a lake and the adventures they have sailing and exploring in a dinghy).

My daughter likes to be independent. I'm hoping that sailing will give her another thing she can do herself and feel good about. She already has a little kayak and enjoys paddling it around; I'm hoping sailing will provide her another thing that is "hers".

You also might try getting her into a class. My daughter likes sharing experiences with other kids. I plan to get her in a class at some point and hope (expect) she bonds with some other sailor kids.

- Jasen.


----------



## MedSailor

I recommend a 60ft open BOC boat. That way she can smash the current pediatric circumnavigation records. You should be able to pick up and outfit one for a few hundred K. 

MedSailor


----------



## MarioG

I have just under $500 into a Walker bay dinghy with sail kit but my best deal was a Sears Fleetwood that I bought a yard sale for $10. Both are fun to sail but I agree you should build a sailing dingy with your daughter. 

I have a gaft sail rig mast and booms that you can have for $50 Plus shipping if possible from the MD area.


----------



## mad_machine

The Portland Pudgy looks interesting.. and it can double as a lifeboat and dink for your big boat

Portland Pudgy | Unsinkable Liferaft | Sailing Dinghy | Yacht Tender


----------



## MedSailor

mad_machine said:


> The Portland Pudgy looks interesting.. and it can double as a lifeboat and dink for your big boat
> 
> Portland Pudgy | Unsinkable Liferaft | Sailing Dinghy | Yacht Tender


It's interesting alright. I own and use one as my tender (and hopefully never) as my life raft. While I think they're a great liferaft and a decent tender, the joy of sailing them is modest at best. Therefore as a "sailing dinghy" to further the joy of sailing, I think you can do better.

MedSailor


----------



## Bene505

jameswilson29 said:


> Sunfish, Sunfish clones, or even cheaper - a Snark Sunflower - built like a drink cooler, styrofoam covered with plastic - unsinkable - I learned on one. After she outgrows it you can bring it out for backyard barbeques.


First reply and he nailed it...

I bought my daughter a Snark. She can easily drag it into the water, it's so light. It has a shallow rudder which makes beach launching and landing easier.

Her Snark came with the "Kool" sail. I bought a new one off eBay.

And we DID use it as a cooler at my 50th birthday party. (Up on a table, with the sail up at first, and using the shafts from two Fortress FX125 anchors to provide stability.)










Regards,
Brad


----------



## SHNOOL

Brad somewhere is a picture of my sea snark with a pair of kegs in it, doing the same thing for my college graduation party. My brother still laughs when he sails the boat, you can see the rings from the kegs in the hull! He goes it was "yet another night I can't remember."

Great little boats, perfect, and safe to learn with.


----------



## MedSailor

Bene505 said:


> Regards,
> Brad


Can I come to your next BBQ??? 

MedSailor


----------



## SHNOOL

What I like in his picture is I see a decent amount of Yuengling lager.
Yuengling | America's Oldest Brewery | Official Web Site
And coronas of course.


----------



## TomMaine

jasenj1 said:


> I like the idea of a boat that can't get swamped.
> 
> At this point I'm not looking to get her into competition, just learn skills and have fun.
> 
> I'll keep my eye on Craigslist and see what pops up.
> 
> - Jasen.


Some sailing dinghy's will go over if you blow on them. I built this Nutshell when my daughter was 2 or 3 (she helped,...). Both our kids learned to sail in it and it's never gone over in 20 years of dinghy sailing. It is very stiff, so is an Opti.

They got it pretty quickly(sailing), and would go off "where ever they wanted"(never out of our sight). Then they learned how to make it come back, that's the tough part but once you learn that, the rest of sailing is easy.

She was about 8 here sailing in very light air taking a friend on a first sail.


----------



## arknoah

TomMaine said:


> Some sailing dinghy's will go over if you blow on them. I built this Nutshell when my daughter was 2 or 3 (she helped,...). Both our kids learned to sail in it and it's never gone over in 20 years of dinghy sailing. It is very stiff, so is an Opti.
> 
> They got it pretty quickly(sailing), and would go off "where ever they wanted"(never out of our sight). Then they learned how to make it come back, that's the tough part but once you learn that, the rest of sailing is easy.
> 
> She was about 8 here sailing in very light air taking a friend on a first sail.


Wow! A definite success story....


----------



## arknoah

Having looked a little at the Snark Sunflower (website and videos), it really does look like a winner, in addition to building an Opti or a Nutshell, or purchasing a used Opti. They all seem to be great options.


----------



## jasenj1

Here's a great deal on a Snark for $80 that popped up on eBay. A little too far away for me, sadly.

- Jasen.


----------



## Bene505

jasenj1 said:


> Here's a great deal on a Snark for $80 that popped up on eBay. A little too far away for me, sadly.
> 
> - Jasen.


Yes, that's a great child's boat.

Regards,
Brad


----------



## Bene505

MedSailor said:


> Can I come to your next BBQ???
> 
> MedSailor


Of course! We had a few Sailnetters there, so you'll know people there too.

regards,
Brad


----------



## bobperry

I taught both of my boys around age 8 in an El Toro. Yes, you can swamp an El Toro but I don't recall either of my boys swamping it. I do recall some smart ass adults after watching my boys sail the El Toro jumping in and swamping it though. I would not hesitate to start my granddaughter of in an El Toro. I love her way to much to shove her off in a Pudgy. Where is the dignity in a boat that looks like a suppository? The El Toro, with a small kid as crew, can really scoot.


----------



## MedSailor

bobperry said:


> Where is the dignity in a boat that looks like a suppository?


:laugher:laugher:laugher

MedSailor


----------



## aliddell1

I started at nine years old. My dad bought an El Toro kit and we put it together...great bonding experience. She will learn how sail trimming affects the boat as they are very tender. You can sail with her to get her started..Great starter boat.


----------



## Merit25lovers

Just bought my little guy a Zuma. He's 9 years old.

He has the rigging and operation all figured out and we haven't even had it on the water yet. 

Sailing lessons this summer, then he can follow along behind us when we are cruising in our Merit!


----------



## sailingfool

Unless you are entering her in a school program that uses Optimists, skip the Optimist.

The Optimist is a training boat for kids who want to race, other kids leanring in Optimists, tend to drop out of sailing.

Get a boat big enough for your daughter AND HER BEST FRIEND (or you for that matter). Young girls want to hang with their friends, a two person boat enables them to sail and to socialize. (Young boys want to follow the girls...)

An N10 is a nice learning boat N10 Association | Serving Sailors for N10 class boats and used to be the predominate training boat in the NE. Wood versions are cheapo.

If you can use a dingy for cruising, buy something like a tech IC dingy Sailing and the Tech Dinghy. She can sail it and then you take in on vacation and use it for frostbiting...


----------



## downeast450

I was fortunate to have a small cat boat when my son was young. A 15' Marshal Sandpiper. Not inexpensive but easily re sold if and when you are done with it. Very safe and roomy. Single sail with three reefs. Gaff rigged so de-powering is quick, "Scandalize the Gaff", Barn door rudder is shallow and doesn't trip the boat in a gust. It heels and points up. With the cb up it will out run an IOD flying a chute downwind. Ha! A great island camper, too. You can run it up onto any beach, Even here in Maine there is always a space big enough to land on. Fun to play with. Fun is important! There is also a bit of varnishing. I find that helps with "Bonding". Pride enters into it.

My biggest concern was the power of the boom. Helmets required! John is still sailing it at 30. He introduced his fiancee to sailing in it and will likely do the same with his kids. I am still sailing it. too. A great boat. A good investment and I didn't appreciate the long term value when I got it. We have moved up a little but can't part with our shallow water, wind powered, patio, "Drinking Bird". In my avatar that is the bell off East Bunker's Ledge from Drinking Bird headed to Baker Island out of Seal Harbor.

A small cat boat might be a good choice. There are others. The Beetle Cat is a great boat. Kids can handle it. With assistance at first, of course, but it doesn't take long to be in need of an upgrade unless you start with something they can grow into. You would need a dock, a mooring (which we had) or trailer support to have "independent" access to one. The skills to row to a mooring safely came way before taking Drinking Bird out anyway. 

No jib is a two edged sword I suppose but it didn't take any time for any of us at every age to adjust to a sloop, too. Now we look forward to heading out with only one sail to deal with. Pointing Not So Much but 45 degrees is close enough if you plan accordingly. The shortcuts you can take with the board up make up any lost time.

Think long term if you can. I'm just making a suggestion from experience.

Good luck!

Down


----------



## rgscpat

When your daughter is just a bit older, a Bic O'Pen would be a great little boat. Much more exciting and fashionable than some of the old tubs. And, it would keep you safely away from the Opti Parent Mafia.


----------



## QuickMick

I just volunteered at a Y camp to get it ready for the kids. I rigged their sailboat fleet for them. Laser Picos. Took them out to make sure they didnt sink! lots of fun!



thats me!


----------



## chris_gee

I think it depends rather where you live and the circumstances in which she will sail.
If you live by a lake or whatever a range of boats will be ok. At least for a time you might want to have either a back up boat available or other older kids with boats.
Otherwise learning in a club fleet, seems to me the way to go, with on water back up coaching boats. That especially in the early stages is not serious racing although some progress to that. With experience she could sail elsewhere.
I would be inclined first to put her through an opti learning program to determine if *she* actually really likes it. Many clubs supply the boats.


----------



## Bene505

Worthwhile bump!

Regards,
Brad


----------



## MarkofSeaLife

Bene505 said:


> Worthwhile bump!
> 
> Regards,
> Brad


Not if you don't add more information, Brad!

So I will!

These little kids are in Argentina doing the Opti World Championships. They are from the USA and the Caribbean.

Kids from about 6 years old can sail an Optimist and sail anywhere in the world. One of the only true one class boats and they are just for kids!


----------



## chall03

Opti all the way.

Makes me wish I was a kid again


----------

