# Fuel/Water Separator Maintenance?



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Our new-to-us Pearson P30, with A4 engine, had a fuel/water separator installed by the PO. I'm wondering if there's some kind of regular maintenance I need perform on this unit, other than occasionally (how often?) changing its filter cartridge? I guess the question is: Assuming there's actually any water to be filtered out, where does it go? It must go _somewhere_, right? I imagine it's trapped in the body of the filter and must be occasionally drained?

The docs included with the boat include a document entitled "CCS-1136 - Fram Fuel and Water Separator Cartridge." All _it_ talks about is cartridge care & handling, how to replace it, how to disassemble/reassemble the unit for cartridge replacement (assuming it's the Fram unit they're talking about), and an air bleeding procedure. (The last of these not to be performed if the unit is used in a "primary or suction side application." I dunno what "primary" means, but I'm _guessing_ "suction side" means if the filter is on the supply [tank] side of the fuel pump.)

Anybody have any clues for me?

TIA,
Jim


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

SEMIJim-

The fuel/water separator, if it is in the fuel line supplying the engine is in the primary or suction side of the fuel system. It also probably acts as the primary fuel filter. The water gets trapped in the clear housing, and the fuel goes in through the filter, and into the engine. If you look at the bowl and there is no layer of water at the bottom, you're basically okay to leave it alone. If there is a visible layer of water, you need to remove the water, usually through a bleeder valve at the bottom of the clear bowl.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I change annually on my new-to-me diesel, although I'm going from a single Fram filter to a double FilterBoss Racor set-up. On my A4, I just have a spin on Mercury filter element, and before that an AquaPower (I think...blue writing on a white body). I changed that every two years, because it's a busy year if I put 25 hours on the Atomic 4.

One thing, however: if you winterize, drain the fuel system completely by emptying the A4 "sediment cup" (clean the little screen and lube the O-ring), and drain the carb and spray it to avoid corrosion. Remove or drain the fuel/water filter, shut off the fuel line (you have a stopcock prior to the fuel/water filter, right?) and winterize the gas, topping it right up. Keep the filter element in a dry place, inverted and with a greased o-ring.

When it's time to fire up in the spring, reassemble, tighten all clamps and use the primer lever to draw gas down to the carb. It should start, if you've done the usual other winterizing stuff, right up.


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> SEMIJim-
> 
> The fuel/water separator, if it is in the fuel line supplying the engine is in the primary or suction side of the fuel system. It also probably acts as the primary fuel filter.


Very well.



sailingdog said:


> The water gets trapped in the clear housing, ... If you look at the bowl and there is no layer of water at the bottom,


Would that it were that easy. Here's what it looks like:










Btw: I note that the appearance of this filter matches not at _all_ with that depicted in the instructions for changing the filter that are in the boats documentation folder. Which leads me to believe that filter part number is quite possibly incorrect for my filter. Grrr...



sailingdog said:


> If there is a visible layer of water, you need to remove the water, usually through a bleeder valve at the bottom of the clear bowl.


I _think_ there's a bleeder valve at the bottom. I can feel something under there.

Valiente: Yes, there's a shutoff between the filter and gas tank.

Jim


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Wow...that's a new one. I assume that some sort of a CAV filter, but it's a tad mysterious...

While the flared copper fittings are probably still good, you might want to check the ABYC code on fuel lines, in which case you may just want to go to a spin-on element.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

SEMIJim-

Either that is the filthiest filter bowl I've ever seen or you got what looks like a water filter housing... UGH... I'd go and get a Racor with a clear bowl, since it'll make doing visual inspections a lot easier.


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Valiente, SD,

Yeah, I already informed The Admiral that I was pretty sure that device was going to have to be replaced. Recommendations?

Jim


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

SEMIJim-

Depends on the budget... Personally, I'd go for the two fuel filters in parallel with two diverter valves. This makes cleaning the fuel filters and bleeding the fuel system much easier. Again, I'd recommend going with a large RACOR, preferably with a water bleeder valve at the bottom of a clear bowl. However, IIRC, the clear bowls maybe only for diesel use...so you may not have a choice, since you're running an Atomic4.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

The Racor 320R is what you need. I don't think you need the redundancy and EXPENSE of a dual filter system for gasoline.


----------



## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Jim,
Moyer Marine sells a particular Racor for $80 or $90, which they say is best for the A4. I think it's the one Cam has pictured there; anyway, you don't save any money buying them anywhere else. The elements are something like $10 or $12. If you don't have one already, you might want to install an in-line filter between the fuel pump and the carb.


----------



## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

That Racor looks a good unit, and that really is not a bad price I have an earlier model, but it leaks a wee bit.


----------



## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

I have a pressurised fuel system, perhaps 5 psi. I trust a new Racor would cope OK?


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> The Racor 320R is what you need. I don't think you need the redundancy and EXPENSE of a dual filter system for gasoline.


True, since they don't have the bleeding issues that you have with diesel.


----------



## Pamlicotraveler (Aug 13, 2006)

SEMIJim said:


> Would that it were that easy. Here's what it looks like:


WOW! Interesting filter. Is it possible that someone used a water filter for gasoline? If so, he was either brave or knew enough to try it. I haven't seen that on a boat before - in fact it looks a lot like a water filter I have in my house.

But yes, get a racor (not expensive).


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Allll righty then. That's two people who have suggested that filter is actually a re-purposed water filter. That thing's gotta go.

Thanks, everybody, for your feedback.

(Here's hopin' I don't have to do a bunch of fuel line re-engineering, too.)

Jim


----------



## mwrohde (Dec 1, 2006)

I've got the exact same filter on my boat. It is a fuel/water separator and the primary fuel filter.

My mechanic doesn't like it too much and suggested I change it at some point, but wasn't in a huge hurry to have me do it. He doesn't like that you can't see through it.

The replacement cartridge isn't too expense - I think I paid about $8 for the last one. When you do change it you need to dig the rubber seal out of the bottom of the orange cap because it won't come with the black filter body. There's a replacement for that in the box with the new cartridge. Also, if you are very careful and keep that body upright when you remove it you'll have much less priming to do after you put it back together.

There are two "nuts" on the bottom of that filter body. The big black one is welded to the body and used to put a wrench on there to thread the body off of the cap. In the center of that one is a smaller one. It is a bleed screw.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> The Racor 320R is what you need. I don't think you need the redundancy and EXPENSE of a dual filter system for gasoline.
> 
> I agree. I have one of those expensive units (or is it two?) but it's cheap insurance against a world of crappy diesel in distant ports. I NEED that redundancy. I can repeat that if you wish...
> 
> Gas in North America is usually safe. Just go for something that will take the condensation out of the gas that you invariably suck in via the vent. It's light duty in most situations, and is a function of "sun on the gas tank side in the morning, and on the quarterberth in the evening".


----------



## gc1111 (May 13, 2004)

All you guys suggesting it is a "repurposed" water filter are just too young to recognize it. That is a Fram filter and those were the most common filters installed on boats in the '70s and '80s. I have a diesel in a boat from 1972. The original owner had installed a string of three of these casings. The first was a water coalessor (sp?) and the second a water separator. The third was similar to this unit and is a combined coalessor and separator (and general filter). I just replaced the first two in the line. Not their fault, I dropped the bleed screw when changing a filter and could not find it. The units are so old that a replacement could not be found. So I replaced them with a Racor. But this Racor is an all metal unit. The CG will not approve the plastic bowls if used in an engine compartment. Now I have the Racor feeding the Fram which then feeds the on-engine fuel pump.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Val...oh I absolutely agree on redundancy for a DIESEL filter system. I have dual Racor500's myself. 
It is unnecessary for gas since generally don't get much suspended solids or algae blloms AND you don't have bleeding/airlock issues and draining the filter bowl or swapping filters is easy for anyone.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

GC...you are right about the USCG and the plastic bowls. The same filter is available in metal and the plastic is supposed to be used for "outdoor" use only....But...ya can't see the water in the metal one so a lot of folks use the plastic see through indoors as well even though it is a supposed safety issue. Personally I think it is more of a safety issue when your engine quits in close quarter situations cause you couldn't see the water in the filter but you are right to bring up the issue.


----------



## gc1111 (May 13, 2004)

And getting back to the OP's original question. If you have a non transparent bowl you should get in the habit of cracking the drain plug on a regular basis and checking what comes out. The original owner of my boat had a beautiful copper catch basin fabricated and placed under the filters. This makes this check a lot easier. I guess with a gas engine you have to be a lot more careful with the fuel coming out.
The CG approval is concerned with "inspected" boats, which are generally bigger engines and more likely to have an electric pump in from of the filters, so the filters have positive pressure. They are concerned that excessive heat (or an engine room fire) could melt the plastic and suddenly add lots of extra fuel to the fire. For a pleasure boat with the electric pump (if any) turned off, melting the plastic will most likely just shut down the engine - especially on a diesel. So in that case the danger is much less, but still there.


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

gc1111 said:


> I guess with a gas engine you have to be a lot more careful with the fuel coming out.


Yeah.



gc1111 said:


> For a pleasure boat with the electric pump (if any) turned off, melting the plastic will most likely just shut down the engine - especially on a diesel. So in that case the danger is much less, but still there.


I have an A4. Unless the PO replaced it (didn't mention he did), it still has a mechanical fuel pump. Tho I hardly see where that makes much difference.

So the up-shot is I can either stay with my current filter/separator, where I can't see what's going on inside, or I can replace it with a new Racor, where I won't be able to see what's going on inside. (Dear Racor: How about a metal body with a _glass_ bowl on the bottom?) As long as replacement cartridges are available for this old Fram I have, I guess I'll just stick with it.

mwrohde or gc1111,

Either one of you wouldn't happen to have any notes or documentation around on the part number for the replacement filter cartridge, would you?

Thanks,
Jim


----------



## gc1111 (May 13, 2004)

About the fuel pump, it is not a question of electrical vs mechanical, but whether the filter is upstream or downstream of the pump. With a mechanical pump and an external filter, the filter will be under suction, so a hole it it will simply suck in air. With an electrical external pump it is typically upstream of the filter, so the filter has positive pressure and fuel will pour out of any hole.
I will check the replacement filter number next time I am at the boat, but your CCS-1136 sounds familiar (I am sure it is a CCS-???) My earlier coalescer was a CC-1133PL and the separator was CS-1133PL. And the combined filter was a CCS-something. Get the pattern? One caveat, I don't know if there are different parts for gas and for diesel, mine is a diesel.
Glass bowl filters used to be made, I don't know if they still are. But they have to have heavy duty protection to keep things like wrench handles away.
Mine had the replacement filter number printed on the side of the holder, try looking carefully at it (including the back side).


----------



## mwrohde (Dec 1, 2006)

SEMIJim said:


> . . .
> 
> Either one of you wouldn't happen to have any notes or documentation around on the part number for the replacement filter cartridge, would you?
> 
> . . .


It is a Fram CCS1136. Mine is a diesel, as well.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

semi...here's what looks to be your filter system. It appears to have the water drain nut on the bottom and as mw says it uses the ccs1136 element
http://www.shipstore.com/SS/HTML/FRA/FRAFCS1136M.html


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I have the Fram CP119 filter element, but it has the clear bowl and drain plug beneath it. I seem to recall that there may be a "code" issue with gasoline and clear bowls that isn't present with diesel.


----------



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Update.

The PO called me earlier today, in response to an emailed inquiry last night, and confirmed that the instruction sheet in the boats documentation is indeed for the filter element for the fuel/water separator/filter on our boat. He said to check for water, just stick a small bowl underneith and drain some out via the drain plug in the bottom. He said he'd never experienced a problem with water accumulation in our boat. (He owned it seven years.) He said he changed the filter element last season.

So all is well, and I could've saved us all some time by just asking the PO in the first place 

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions, everybody. Appreciate it.

Jim


----------



## Wayne25 (Jul 26, 2006)

I have that same filter/water separator. It has a small brass plug on the bottom to check for any water accumulation. Its built like a tank and has a hugh resovoir to catch water if you buy a bad load of gas. West Marine carries the new replacement como filters that go inside as described earlier. IMHO, a much better built filter than a racor. That bowl is 1/8" thick. If tou replace the copper tubing going to and from the filter with the properly rated rubber hose, it's easier to unclamp the hoses, unscrew the four top bolts from the bracket and remove the whole assembly for filter replacement and fuel inspection.


----------

