# Honda 2hp ??



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Anyone have any experience with the Honda 2HP with centrifagul clutch? Looking at a new outboard and weight is primary concern. Had a dealer say stay away from the Honda because clutch engages when starting?? Any real life experience??


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Not yet, but its 29 lb. dry weight and air-cooled attributes are putting it on my short list. Practical Sailor reviewed a number of sub 5 HP 4-strokes in recent months, and Honda, despite the $1,000 price tag, did quite well.


----------



## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

I've had one for a couple years, it can lurch a little if you've got the throttle open a little more than required when starting cold. When starting warm doesn't require any thottle and it's not a problem. The clutch takes some time getting used to, but I really like it.


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

In so far as the $1000 price tag, I did some shopping around for the honda and found many local marina's offering it for under $800.00. Also with the boat shows all coming up, a deal can be had.


----------



## trantor12020 (Mar 11, 2006)

I use a Suzuki 2.5HP 4-stroke. Comes with gear shift for Forward and Neutral. Great little obm. Had used a Yamaha 3.3hp 2-stroke with clutch. Didn't like it as runs a risk of jack rabbit start and close quarters control without neutral gear.


----------



## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

When I bought the Honda it was the only 2 HP available new in Calif., best price I found was Oceanside Marine Center $869. Dockmate recently got the Suzuki and I believe he said he was able to get it for $680. Besides gearing, I think the Suzuki may be water cooled, Honda is air cooled. I find it impractical to "rinse in fresh water after each use", I wouldn't be any better about a water cooled engine, but I feel less guilt. The centrifugal clutch works okay on an inflatable after you got it wired, might be a handfull on a hard dink.


----------



## tomaz_423 (Feb 5, 2006)

Hi, 
I just returned from sailing yesterday (a group of friends asked me to be a skipper for the boat they chartered) and we had a Honda 2HP 4 stroke engine on the little inflatable.
1) It really is light - very nice.
2) starting: first time users used either too little throttle to start or too much (gear engaged), several pulls were needed - more than I am used to with 2-stroke Tohatsu (4 to 10 HP models) for example.
3) running: It died almost every time when opening throttle when cold, but when started again it usually managed to engage clutch without killing the engine. Perhaps we should a) use (more) chock or b) wait a minute to warm up just a little 
4) landing: with more throttle you hit the sailboat (or pier) fast, with less the clutch disengage and you stop before you get to your destination. 
We were first time users of that motor and after a few try-and-error attempts we got it. 
I did miss the manual gear: when landing to a sailboat on the anchor I often left the motor in gear with min. throttle - so dinghy is gently pushed against the boat allowing me to tie it.
With centrifugal clutch it is either too fast or not engaged. 
4) fuel consumption: I do not know. We got it almost empty and after 4 days it was almost empty. So perhaps it does not use any 

Conclusion: For charter use (first time users, complete novice to outboards, ...) I prefer manual clutch and more power.
Ability to run it in gear at very low RPM was missing a little. 
When we learned how to use it we appreciated how light it was.


----------



## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

tomaz_423 said:


> 4) landing: with more throttle you hit the sailboat (or pier) fast, with less the clutch disengage and you stop before you get to your destination.


That's what I disliked about it. Even after a few years it seems impossible to find that 'magic spot' where you are creeping at a high idle but not low enough to have the clutch dis-engage.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Freesail99 said:


> In so far as the $1000 price tag, I did some shopping around for the honda and found many local marina's offering it for under $800.00. Also with the boat shows all coming up, a deal can be had.


Trust me, with the Canadian dollar at par and the fact I want a Honda 2HP and a Honda EU2000, if I don't get a great deal in January at the Toronto boat show, I'll simply order online from the States having negotiated a decent deal on the phone. The shipping won't matter much.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

tsingtao said:


> Anyone have any experience with the Honda 2HP with centrifagul clutch? Looking at a new outboard and weight is primary concern. Had a dealer say stay away from the Honda because clutch engages when starting?? Any real life experience??


Not with the Honda, but with a Nissan I think it was. It was ok, but when you are at the shore, you will often have to start that motor while in the water (so you can keep your nose into the breakers before you get in). Are you ok with that? Also, that little engine is going to have to push hard to get through any breakers at the shore.

When going back to the boat, you will get used to just killing it and coming in at a slow ramming speed. Better grab the ladder first time.

I honestly am a fan of a GOOD, properly sized outboard. It is one of the most used pieces of equipment on our boat. In a very controlled atmosphere, the small outboards are fine. However, if you are planning on cruising or will be using it on the coast wheere you might beach the dink, I think you will not be happy.

Just my real life experiences.

- CD


----------



## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

I have a 2HP Yamaha 2-stroke. Only weighs 22 lbs! Really easy to get on and off the inflatable. The new ones are 4-stroke and still under 30 lbs. Worth a look.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks for all the input. Really want the light weight but sounds like the Honda is not all I thought it would be. Hard to beat Honda but sounds like the clutch could be a problem. Willing to live with the "starting" issue but never thought about the low speed potential problems. Thanks again, will keep looking.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Is there any other air-cooled outboard out there in the sub-5 HP range? It's the air-cooling I like, along with the low weight in a 4-stroke.

I can live with the absence of a neutral, although if I could find an air-cooled OB with a neutral under 40 lbs....that would be ideal.


----------



## TohatsuGuru (Oct 3, 2007)

Actually the air cooled engines are not really the way to go. The Honda 2 hp was a great little engine when it was watercooled. Then Honda redesigned it around seven years ago as an air cooled model and gave it the centrifugal clutch. It was a step backwards in my opinon. In fact its really the only marginal engine that Honda offers. It's only advantage is that it is light. If that's more important(and in some situations it is) than engine life than it may be your best choice. There isn't a bad brand out there so Suzuki, Yamaha, etc would all be a good choice.


----------



## kmclarke (Aug 19, 2006)

I am also considering a 2 or 3 hp OBM , in addition to a 15 hp for our 10' RIB. I want the small OBM for my boys so they can get around anchorages and explore . Are the small motors reasonably easy to start and control? My boys are athletic but not overly powerful 9 and 10 year olds. 
kevin


----------



## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

I have a great wife......last christmas a very large present was under the tree in the morning and as it turned out, it was the new Yamaha 2.5 four stroke I was lusting after We really like it, it has a neutral/fwd gear, not heavy, starts easily and is relatively quiet. This one replaces an older Evinrude 2 hp that was always temperamental to start when cold.
I like the light weight because I always take it off the dink and mount on the stern rail, plus I have a hard dink that doesn't require a lot of horses to push her along. 
One thing about an air cooled engine is that it's a lot louder than a water cooled. I also have a couple of old Tanaka air cooled engines(LOUD) that are reliable, but not too robust. My two cents....


----------



## MichaelGrant (Mar 14, 2007)

tsingtao said:


> Anyone have any experience with the Honda 2HP with centrifagul clutch? Looking at a new outboard and weight is primary concern. Had a dealer say stay away from the Honda because clutch engages when starting?? Any real life experience??


I purchased a new 2 hp Honda the first of this summer and just love it. As to the clutch. During start up of the Honda the clutch will engage if the throttle setting is too high. This has happened to me several times. However, if anticipated it can be prevented. I do not find this a problem. I have had four persons in my tender and the honda pushes us along without difficulty. The honda runs quietly at lower speeds but has the speed increases so does the engine noise. Also, the fuel tank, so far, seals well to where I have not had leaks or fuel smell.

I hope this helps.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

TohatsuGuru said:


> Actually the air cooled engines are not really the way to go. The Honda 2 hp was a great little engine when it was watercooled. Then Honda redesigned it around seven years ago as an air cooled model and gave it the centrifugal clutch. It was a step backwards in my opinon. In fact its really the only marginal engine that Honda offers. It's only advantage is that it is light. If that's more important(and in some situations it is) than engine life than it may be your best choice. There isn't a bad brand out there so Suzuki, Yamaha, etc would all be a good choice.


The old Volkswagen Beetle engines were air-cooled. Are you saying there is something intrinsically wrong with air-cooling on an outboard, as opposed to the added weight, complexity and need to flush a seawater cooling circuit?

I can accept that Honda's made a poorly designed air-cooled outboard with a wonky clutch. I have trouble accepting that the entire premise is bogus for engines in the "mini" size range.

Having crew who are themselves fairly compact, I am interested in all options. As I'll be pushing either a 10-foot "hard" rowing tender or a Portabote, 4 HP is my UPPER limit, so things like weight, ease of stowage and mechanical reliability become paramount.

If I thought I was bringing my 11 foot RIB long-term cruising, I'd just stick with either the 80 lb 9.9 two-stroke or 110 pound 9.9 four-stroke I already own...but both are too big to be buggering around with in three feet of sea, even with cranes. I want something I can haul up with the boat or have manually passed to me on deck. That means 40 lbs. or less...a "luggable" outboard.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

MichaelGrant said:


> I purchased a new 2 hp Honda the first of this summer and just love it. As to the clutch. During start up of the Honda the clutch will engage if the throttle setting is too high. This has happened to me several times. However, if anticipated it can be prevented. I do not find this a problem. I have had four persons in my tender and the honda pushes us along without difficulty. The honda runs quietly at lower speeds but has the speed increases so does the engine noise. Also, the fuel tank, so far, seals well to where I have not had leaks or fuel smell.
> 
> I hope this helps.


It does, thank you. I'm not slaved to the idea of a Honda. The Yamaha mentioned (the 2.5) is just eight pounds heavier and is therefore under 40 lbs., my semi-flexible limit. I just don't know if the upside of water cooling and a "neutral" is worth the downside of the flushing and the extra mass.


----------



## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

Valiente said:


> I'd just stick with either the 80 lb 9.9 two-stroke or 110 pound 9.9 four-stroke I already own...but both are too big to be buggering around with in three feet of sea, even with cranes. I want something I can haul up with the boat or have manually passed to me on deck. That means 40 lbs. or less...a "luggable" outboard.


I second your notion of the easy handling. Just anchored in NGBay last summer I had to leave my 110lb 15 hp Yamaha attached to my dingy in the water because I didn't want the boat or me to get severly dinged up trying to get back on the mother ship. Using the mizzen halyard with a block on my dingy davits I have a perfect crane system but when un-even 2 or 3 ft PB waves move the dingy at one cycle and the 18,000 lb boat at a differnt cycle with me in between the hull and a swinging 110 lbs of in some places jagged metal  This summer my 15hp was in the shop and I used my good old Honda 2hp. It is such a joy to just climb down the ladder with the little Honda in one hand waves or not and just step into or out of the dingy.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

christyliegh and valiente,
I think you are both on target with my thinking. I have a larger outboard now, went with "get the biggest ya can" advise. Also have a crane, but, even with that it's quite a balancing act, other than at the dock, getting 100lbs on and off the boat. I take it you are satisfied with the Honda?? Any starting/relieability problems??
Jerry
Tsing Tao


----------



## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

I'm not a heavy outboard/dingy user but since my Honda still runs good after my lack of use and poor maintenence habits I guess that's an endorsement. I used it a few times this year because the 15 hp that came with the NC/Caribe dingy package was down. The year before that it sat in my garage improperly winterized because with the new boat, new enging, etc... I didn't know what I was going to do with it. Sometimes I don't treat my old machinery well. It's a Honda - It Runs.


----------



## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

We have one, it runs well and is light enough to move it around easily. The only thing I don't like is that it is very loud when running more than half throttle.


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

I have a walker bay "hard" dink. Walker bay recomends a 2 hp engine, I am not sure if that is because of weight of the motor or power.


----------



## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Dealer showed me the trick for starting the Honda, slowly pull till you feel resistance which indicates start of compression stroke. Let it rewind and then give it the starting pull. When cold, it coughs with full choke on first pull, reduce to half choke, it starts on second pull. When warm it starts first pull everytime this way.
They are susceptible to oil leakage if laid down the wrong way. I wouldn't call the clutch wonky or whatever, just gotta get used to it. You learn exactly how far your dink will fetch in all kinds of conditions.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Good information. My '85 Honda BF100 (a 9.9 HP 4-stroke) starts the same way: pull until tension...release...full choke, then cut back in a couple of seconds to half-choke.

Come to think of it, my Atomic 4 likes five seconds of full choke, and then ease it back until it picks up speed, then lean her out completely. I rarely need choke when running, unless the engine is near freezing.


----------



## TohatsuGuru (Oct 3, 2007)

Air cooled engines just never seem to hold up to the salt water environment. Combine that with the burn up factor on the clutch and the Honda just does not leave me or anyone I know feeling warm and fuzzy about it. I used to sell Honda's and I think they have a product line as good anyone else. But, that 2 is not robust and the number one thing I look for is reliability in an outboard. The five and up I would trust with my life. But, I would let my ex-wife use the Honda 2, actually I would recommend one for her anytime


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I'm still not getting a straight answer from you, 'Guru. What fundamental aspect of air-cooled engines is a negative in salt water when compared with seawater cooling (that needs freshwater flushing?)

And from where is your contention that the clutch "burns up"? I wish to learn, if you can tell me, why my intention to buy an air-cooled Honda 2 is misguided, despite a number of endorsements from individuals and tests run by Practical Sailor.

I haven't bought anything yet, but I wish to understand why a more standard engine (neutral, water-cooled, heavier) in the same HP range is superior to this particular featherweight Honda.


----------



## TohatsuGuru (Oct 3, 2007)

Air cooled engines are more susceptible to internal corrosion and overheating than water cooled engines. That's why you never see any air cooled engines that still work after ten years of use. Once this model get's its tenth year birthday it will have been around long enough to see if it beats the air cooled curve. The clutch is prone to burning up when the engine pushes anything other than a light load. IE, the heavier the load the more likely that you will have a failure. Back before Honda ruined the 2 I sold many of them with great confidence. After the modification we began seeing a significant amount of clutch failures when the engine was used to push loads greater than 600lbs. I remember it as having 4 of them with clutch failures out of some 30 sold between 2002 and 2003 at the company location at which I worked. That's versus no failures from any other brand. It's also a little louder than the previous 2. 

If you want to buy one do so. You probably will get years of flawless use out it since you are in a cold water climate. But, my contention is that virtually any other engine in that 2-2.5 range is more reliable than the Honda. This is based on my personal past experience as a dealer for Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Tohatsu/Nissan and Mercury. I don't have an axe to grind with Honda. They make outboards as reliable as any other brand. But, that 2 was/is/will be a step away from their usual rock solid reputation.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

TohatsuGuru said:


> But, that 2 was/is/will be a step away from their usual rock solid reputation.


Thanks for the specifics. I am in southern Canada, where the water is 20-24 C for much of the summer...not tropical but not cool, either. This would be for a tropical application, so I thank you for the explanation.

Durability is also important to me, but I needed to see a more specific argument against the Honda 2. You've provided that, particularly as we would row or sail the tender with light loads, and merely use the OB to push...at a slow speed...a laden Portabote for cargo or three people and light gear in the sailing tender.

If I move into the 2-3.5 HP water-cooled range, then what would you recommend is the best compromise between durability, low weight and torque-y pushing power? The recent PS article indicated some negative attributes, but if you sell a variety of models and understand my parameters for "10-12 foot Portabote and/or nesting sailing dinghy used to convey groceries needing the lightest practical engine that is 4-stroke and can be hauled up a ladder by a fit 115-lb. woman in her 30s", then I'd welcome your suggestions.


----------



## TohatsuGuru (Oct 3, 2007)

Any brand that she can lift. I would go with the largest that she can carry keeping in mind that engines are light in the cool of the morning and seem to double in weight on a hot July afternoon. All brands of 4-stoke in the same hp have the same power output at the same RPM range so there is little or no difference in useable power at the prop. On a side note; Torque is a measurement at the engines crankshaft and is only one factor in determing hp at the prop which is where outboard hp is measured. The Feds stepped in back in 1987 and required all manufacturers as of 1988 to quote their hp as prop shaft rated at a given max RPM so that consumers would be able to have a valid way of comparing an outboards useable power. It's not a perfect system as it does not take into account prop slippage, but it will give you a fairly good idea of what an engine is capable of. 

If you want a criteria for determing what is best for you I would think in the following terms:

Relaibility (All brands in this size range with Honda being iffy)

Is the dealer a jerk or a gem. ( Any easy way to find out is to call them and say you bought an engine from another dealer a year ago and are having a problem with it suddenly stopping. If they are helpful then they will be helpful if you buy one from them. If they tell you to take it back where you bought it, well you have just learned that they have no character.)

Intial price shouldn't be an issue as all brands are priced based on local market conditions and the "thief" factor of the local dealer.

Dealer availability. Some people think this is the most important factor. I don't agree, but I wouldn't by a brand of outboard if you have to take it to a dealer over 25 miles away. 

The following brands start up on the first or second pull out of the box: Yamaha, Honda andTohatsu/Nissan/Mercury

The Suzuki 2-6 usually needs to be adjusted out of the box before it will stay running. Once it gets that intial adjustment it's fine. That size range of Suzuki is not Japanese made and for whatever reason seems to lack that last bit of QC


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I'm leaning toward the Yamaha because they are so ubiquitous where we are heading, which is likely to be some distance beyond 25 miles from a dealer.

I guess I'll have to get used to FW rinsing, because the usage pattern will be occasional (a few times a week in port, not at all in a lagoon).

Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Some random thoughts from a de-clutched mind.

Oil, in all engines, does the majority of engine cooling. An air cooled engine simplifies the engine, it's maintenance, and operation. It also can allow the engine to run hotter than desired under unanticipated loads (like the time I did 90 mph for four hours in my VW-motor was never the same and soon died thereafter!) and oil changing becomes much more critical. Water cooling prevents those hot-spots from developing that any deficiency in oil or oil circulation will cause. This does not make me against air-cooled, I'm just thinking that there might come a time when I'd like to know that I could tow my boat a short distance without risking lunching my motor.

In the case of the Honda I might be willing to risk the load issue for the convenience of air-cooling. Not having to circulate water to run it is a real convenience in so many situations. The centrifugal clutch though worries me. My experience with such conveniences is that they are not reliable or easily repaired. And the prospect of no neutral or effective way to putt along (untended?) would make the centrifugal clutch a deal breaker for me.

Having said all that, it sounds like it might be a nice little unit for zipping back and forth from the marina to the mooring. I doubt I'd want to take it away from home for use in unfamiliar conditions.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

More thought is required. This engine will be taken long-term cruising in out of the way places, but may not be used every single day (it's not strong enough to fight rough stuff in a harbour, for instance). I'm glad there's a debate, at least, as it gives me a chance to understand more deeply the pros and cons.


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I don't think a 2 HP is going to keep a hard dinghy moving forward into short adverse chop under certain conditions...there are times when you have to either bring the main boat to the shore or hitch on something bigger.


----------



## 7tiger7 (May 30, 2006)

Any suggestions of a good online place where I can do comparison searches of these small outboards?


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

What kind of comparisons are you talking about? Price? Specifications? Size? Quality? BTW, most of the major on-line marine chandleries will have some sort of comparison tool on their website.


7tiger7 said:


> Any suggestions of a good online place where I can do comparison searches of these small outboards?


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

RickBowman said:


> Got it. Yeah if you don't feel that a 2hp is adequate then go stronger, larger, more thrust, and heavier. Three years ago I used this 2 hp to tow one 250 pound man aboard a 16 foot pontoon boat towing it backwards that had a 1500 concrete pound mooring weight in the center of the pontoon with another 100 pounds of chain with misc shackles and a mooring ball a distance of a 1/4 of a mile through open bay water that was not calm to place the mooring weight. I was inside the 10 foot dink and my weight is under 200 pounds. But I can still see how this motor may be undersized depending on the load that it needs to push.


Well, there's my manly testicles to consider. Some sailors use an anchor. I just go forward and unzip.

Seriously, 2 HP is probably enough, but I am switching from a Zodiac 310 with 9.9 HP to both a Portabote and a dinghy, both of which have a 4 and a 3 HP limit, respectively. So I simply don't know if it will suffice better than a motivated rower with seven foot sweeps or a reefed lug sail when it comes to getting into shore in distant places.


----------



## mobinakhtar (May 28, 2013)

*My personal experience with BF2D*

I read this string prior to purchasing my 2007 BF2D to be used in Galveston TX, West bay saltwater on a 2005 10ft Portabote. I bought it for its lightweight, air cooling, and being 4-stroke.

Afetr reading initial reviews, I saw some comments that are not consistant with the behavior of this motor once you have owned it for a while - so here si my 2c after owning it for several months.

1. Centrifugal clutch is NOT a problem. When you start, you have to loosen the throttle friction knob so as soon as cold engine starts, you can let go of the throttle, and it returns to lowest idle settign automatically.

2. I have to cover almost quarter mile in a canal idling out to the bay so I take it to "start" position and use the friction nut to hold throttle there - at that point, all I have to do is steer.

3. One adult = excellent push but no plane , 2 adults = fast troll, one adult plus two kids = fast troll. 2 heavy adults = slow.

4. Engine clearly struggles to puch the portabote in mild wind or chop. It seems like you are inching away, not even trolling away.

5. I keep mine stored for montha time between uses, still starts easy. I usually start it and let it warm up b4 putting it on my porta bote. since its aircooled, its easy to do that.

6. has no reserve or fuel warning - just cuts off when fuel is consumed. wish it had a very small reserve to make it back to safety.

7. The fuel consumption is very good but still without any gauge, you must carry additional fuel just in case as the onboard tank is tiny.

8. Its extremely light - my wife easily hands it to me (I am 185 lbs 5-8') and I can put it on to transom with one hand.

9. The oil window is about worthless. I can never tell if there is oil in it, enough, or none. I have to shake it to see if there is liquid in there.

10. contrary to other reviews, its NOT loud. it does not sound like a weed wacker either. its very decent - specially at WOT, its like any other small outboard.

Overall, I am very happy with it. It starts quicka nd soemhow, I trust it to work everytime. wish I could say the same about my 2003 75 Merc.


----------



## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

sorry, but the Honda air cooled moto vs. my tohatsu 9.8 water cooled is no comparision, you can barely hear the water cooled at idle.


----------



## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

At idle the Tohatsu 9.8 is quieter, but at mid-throttle I find them to be similarly loud. It's a different noise, but they are both there.

I have an older Honda 2hp, the BF2A (no clutch, it is always in forward).


----------



## mobinakhtar (May 28, 2013)

I have to agree - the air-cooled engines are not the quietest. My Merc 75 is so quiet at idle (in the water) that I can barely hear it. outside its like a harley.

The honda has same noise level inside or outside the water pretty much. but then again, its not as loud as a weedwacker either.

In y opinion, the noise is adequate for such engine. I once heard the briggs and strattton aircooled engine and boy oh boy, you definitely needed ear protection for that one. 

Honda at full throttle is hardly louder than a weed wacker idling.


----------



## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

You might want to check out the Suzuki 2.5. It's not much heavier, costs about the same, has a bit more power, is water cooled, and has a forward/neutral lever.


----------

