# Frers F&C 44



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Frers F&C 44*

I am trying to find more informatin on the Frers & Cybils 44. These were made in Argintina around 1980. I would appreciate any information or feedback.
Regards, James


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

*F&c 44*

Hallo James,
if I am correct, your question about F&C 44 is very old and still without answer. I joint the sailnet community yesterday and found your post.
If your still interested in Information concerning this wonderfull boat,
please send me a new post. I am owner of Hull-Nr. K-16 since 1990.
Regards, K. Holthoefer


----------



## YECAD (Apr 29, 2009)

Hello K. Holthoefer
I am always interested in meeting another F&C 44 owner. My boat "ARIA II" is Hull K-21. She is in Halifax Nova Scotia, Canada.

Please tell me about your boat K-16. Thanks.

Regards,

Ken Dacey


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

*F&c 44*

Hallo Ken Dacey,

nice to hear from you. Internet information about our rare boats is hardly 
to find. I was always interested to find other owners to chare the
experience in refit effort.
My boat "Marlin" was build in 1979/80 an shipped on deck to England.
I bought the boat in 1990 at the "Costa del Sol" of Spain and brought it
to the Baltic Sea . As usual the hard sun and very salty water of the 
mediterranean sea caused a poor condition.
Over the years I changed nearly everything including teak-decks and 
engine ( I changed even the position from owners cabin to main companionway). Today the boat looks fine, like about 5 years old.
Hoping that you will tell me about "Aria" as well.
Best regards
Klaus Holthoefer


----------



## YECAD (Apr 29, 2009)

Klaus: send me an e-mail & I can send you pictures & information on ARIA II.

Regards,

Ken Dacey
[email protected]


----------



## Leee (Apr 19, 2006)

Hi Klaus and Ken,
I am looking at a 1982 Frers 44 F.and C. built ketch at the moment and would like to know as much about them as possible. Longevity (assuming decent care), sailing abilities, etc. Email is renovate it 85 @ hot mail . com ( Just eliminate all the spaces shown here.)
Regards, Lee


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

*F&c 44*

Hallo Lee,
as I am owner of a 1980 build example since nearly 20 years, there is some
experience to share. I will not be able to tell you all about my time with this beauty in this Mail.
Like every loving owner I will go into raptures bout her sailing abilities in rough see. On the other hand she is not a racer and not as quick as modern 
"cruiser racers". Best is the range between 40 and 150° apparent wind direction. The hull is very strong and yet I did not hear about osmosis problems. On the other hand a nearly 30 years old boat needs for shure 
a lot of refit work. On such a beautifull classic you might have the chance to get some of the money back in the end but I would never count on it.
Best is to send me a list of concrete questions.
I look forward to hear from you

regards Klaus


----------



## Leee (Apr 19, 2006)

Hi Klaus,
I've replied to your email today and hope to hear back soon.
Leee


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*F&c 44*

Hello All,

I'll second the opinions off Klaus and Ken, the F&C 44 is a beautiful boat and gets admiring comments everywhere she goes. I have owned ONYX, hull #23 since 2007 and have found the maintenance issues no worse and perhaps less than any other 30 year old boat, due in large part to the excellent maintenance from the PO. The biggest project so far was rewiring the shore power and replacing the DC panel with modern circuit breakers, not unusual in a boat of this age. The teak decks and varnished woodwork do take time to maintain but the results are worth it. 
Klaus, I would like to hear from you on what was involved in moving the engine from the owners cabin to under the main companionway. I know later F&C 44's were built that way but it must be a tight fit.

Regards,
Steve H


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

*F&c 44*

Hallo Steve,

first of all nice to hear from you and your positive experience.
Moving the engine was necessary to get rid of the nasty hydraulic
power connection to the prop. The pressure tube broke three times 
during the first 12 years of my ownership and always in difficult situations.
When the connection breaks there is all of a sudden no stearing control.
That happened two times in the Northern to Baltic sea canal with a lot 
of big ship traffic. Moreover you will find some liters of oil in the bilge too.
I bought a new Perkins Sabre 65 which fit perfectly underneath the companionway. Space is quite narrow around, but the modern engines are fortunately smaller. The new position is better for weight balance. More important is the much more direct power after switching the gear. It makes turning in small harbours much easier.
Greatings
Klaus


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hello Klaus,

Could you please tell me which pressure tube broke? Was it the same all three times, was it the hose itself or one of the fittings? I will be repowering this spring and have ordered a new Beta Marine 43 to replace the original Perkins 4-108 along with a new hydraulic pump, motor and hoses. So far after three seasons I have found the hydraulic system reliable but your experience has me concerned.

Steve H


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

*F&c 44*

Hello Steve,

because of a leakage in the hydraulic system, which I realised after the purchase, I decided for a new installation in 1991. The exchange concerned all tubes including fittings and the pump at the prop (shaft). It was a quite expensive decision.
As I already told, the tube broke three times and as far as I remember always near the new pump (at the prop shaft).
And near the fitting where the tube came out in a bow.
2002 the whole installation was replaced and I never had any problem with the engine again.
Regards 
Klaus


----------



## Rasy2k (Dec 5, 2009)

*F&C 44 Dodger*

I'm looking to have a cockpit dodger installed on my recently purchased F&C 44 1981 Hull #33. Any owners have this and if so who was the builder?


----------



## Rasy2k (Dec 5, 2009)

Steve H / Onyx,
Steve I'm from NY, LIS area and wondering if you keep ONYX near Huntinton as there is a dodger manufactuer there that I'm considering using. At present my boat, Amandolin, will be in the Chesapeake through June and I'll be heading Down East early July and will only be passing through the LIS for a brief time. Thought if He could look at your boat he might be able to rake measurements. I can be reached at (bsmithy2k -- aol --- com) 
Bob Smith
S/V Amandolin


----------



## echoffmanjr (May 20, 2010)

*F&C Dodger*



Rasy2k said:


> I'm looking to have a cockpit dodger installed on my recently purchased F&C 44 1981 Hull #33. Any owners have this and if so who was the builder?


Hi, I own #19, SKYE, and sail out of Rye, NY.  Hathaway & Reiser in Stamford replaced my dodger canvas for me. I'm sure they could build one from scratch as well.

EC


----------



## ceciliaysaga (Oct 1, 2010)

Does any have an estimate about how much does the change of place and new engine costs?


----------



## ceciliaysaga (Oct 1, 2010)

I have many questions:
What diameter of propeller do they have and how many blades?
Do you have a retractable propeller? What kind?


----------



## tackorjibe (Mar 8, 2011)

*F&c 44 #12*

I have just heard about this thread.
I own 1979 Hull #12, I love this beautiful boat, but just like any other love affair, it is not perfect.
I did have a hydraulic hose burst at the worst possible time in a very tight anchorage, going against a fast moving tide all forward momentum was lost. Best recommendation always carry a sharp knife to cut the anchor loose fast. 
I am currently having problems with the original 4-108 and would be very interested in engine replacement recommendations, particularly if it could included the elimination of the hydraulic transmission. I am not quite clear how there is room to place the engine forward without major carpentry.
Also I did have a full dodger installed which I felt was badly needed.
Kiskedee originally from the East Coast now lives in Morro Bay California. I am not sure if there are any other F&C 44's located on the West Coast since Roy Disney's Shamrock was sold.
Peter B.
Morro Bay, California


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

*Hydraulik*

Dear Peter B., I had this problem 3 times till I changed the system.
Later hulls have the engine below the main companionway. I bought a new
Perkins Sabre M65 and had it installed in this position. But I have to admit 
it was a big deal. Calculate the cost of a new engine at least twice for the complete installation.


----------



## echoffmanjr (May 20, 2010)

*Repowering the F&C44*

Hello Tackorjibe, #19 here, Rye, NY sorry not near you! 
We're in process of repowering. Staying with the hydraulics, far less wear and tear on the shaft and bearing, and couldn't imagine the cost of moving the inards of the boat around although sounds like a good solution if you don't like the hydraulics. Looks like we'll install a Yanmar53hp. 
Last thread is correct, double the price of the engine.

SKYE #19
EC Hoffman


----------



## tackorjibe (Mar 8, 2011)

EC, 
Thank you for the information, yes I would hate to think about the cost involved with a cabin reconfiguration.
Do have any cost estimates on repowering?
Thanks, 
Peter
Kiskedee #12


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

Peter/Kiskedee,
my experience concerning costs might not be representative for the US, but maybe this is an interesting relation/comparison:
when I bought #K16 in 1990 I realized an oil leakage. I had one hydraulik pump and all the tubes renewed. Replacing of the whole hydraulik installation was round about the price for a new Perkins.
After this repair I faced the delight of three (3) times burst, when all of a sudden there was no stearing control at all.
2002 The new Perkins Sabre M 65 came into the new position below the companionway. The price was 2,5 X the engine. It was worth every single Euro.
Especially manoevering in narrow harbours is much more fun.
So don't waste your money for a half repair.
Regards Klaus/hull#k16, Baltic Sea


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

Peter/Kiskedee,
my experience concerning costs might not be representative for the US, but maybe this is an interesting relation/comparison:
when I bought #K16 in 1990 I realized an oil leakage. I had one hydraulik pump and all the tubes renewed. Replacing of the whole hydraulik installation was round about the price for a new Perkins.
After this repair I faced the delight of three (3) times burst, when all of a sudden there was no stearing control at all.
2002 The new Perkins Sabre M 65 came into the new position below the companionway. The price was 2,5 X the engine. It was worth every single Euro.
Especially manoevering in narrow harbours is much more fun.
So don't waste your money for a half repair. Get a fixed cost estimate.
Regards Klaus/hull#k16, Baltic Sea


----------



## tackorjibe (Mar 8, 2011)

Klaus,
Thank you for your insights. 
I don't know the space required for a new modern engine but I’m still not clear how it could fit under the companion way, did you have to modify the forward ladder or the aft head bulkhead? I do not know if it is possible but some photos would be great.
Peter
Kiskedee, K-12


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

Peter,
yes you have to modify the ladder and the bulkhead in the lower area below the mirror. The sliding door has to be shortened (if there is one).
All this modifications were realized on later hulls at least from 1983.
I could send photos if you give me your e-mail address.
The tanks have to be moved into the position of the old engine underneath the cockpit. Even the stern tube has to be moved a little bit.
Regards Klaus.


----------



## tackorjibe (Mar 8, 2011)

Klaus,
Does not sound good.
My email is: [email protected]
Thanks for all the information,
Peter


----------



## paulfoulkes (Jun 2, 2011)

*Information on F & C 44*

Hello,

I am currently looking at a 1985 F&C 44.

Does anybody have information regarding problems areas?

I can only find one other F&C for sale here in Europe.

Any advice & information would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Paul


----------



## echoffmanjr (May 20, 2010)

*F&c 44*

biggest problem area is the chainplates. The original carbon steel (not stainless) chainplates were glassed to the inside of the hull with a less than perfect glass job left air pockets that fill with water that seeps in through the deck opening. The old tired toe rails are not teak and could have rotted out and allowed water in as well. I own #19 and have repaired the hull and plates where necessary. Second boat done by Great Island Boat Yard, Harpswell Maine. If the repair is done properly, the hull is virtually brand new and ready for another thirty years and more.


----------



## echoffmanjr (May 20, 2010)

Peter, Kiskedee #12, the estimate for a repower was $22, double the engine which we found to be conventional wisdom from many sources. With new hydraulics close to $30
EC 
SKYE #19

EC, 
Thank you for the information, yes I would hate to think about the cost involved with a cabin reconfiguration.
Do have any cost estimates on repowering?
Thanks, 
Peter
Kiskedee #12[/QUOTE]


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

Hello echoffmanjr,
I read your last post about chainplates and was alarmed. I never realized such problem on my boat (#16). What were the symptoms of this problem?
Did you have to repair all 4 areas? Was reconstruction done from outside or inside? I estimate it was horrible expensive , ones again.
Regards K. Holthoefer, #K16, Baltic Sea


----------



## echoffmanjr (May 20, 2010)

Symptoms were disconfigured hull, looked like the fibrglass was bulging. Water meter showed varying degrees of intrusion. Years of rusting delaminated the fibreglass. reconstruction was largely done from the outside with some work done inside. Horrible is correct but a second home costs alot more, and this one moves.
[email protected] for more


----------



## BobScribner (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

I am looking for Stability information for the F & C 44.
Need a copy of naval architects original information on this to satisfy a race committee.
Can you help?


----------



## tackorjibe (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Hydraulic Transmission?

I have F&C 44 #12, and am having issues with the hydraulic transmission, apparently the directional control valve is bad and needs replacement or repair does anyone have any insight into this issue.

I know that moving the engine
And going to a direct drive system is the best solution, but that is not an option at this time.

Thanks,
Peter


----------



## fiberglass jim (Jan 13, 2013)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

To people interested in the F & C 44. I have restored 2 of these boats for major hull damage. The hull was blistering and bulging from delaminating fiberglass Most of this damage was caused by the toe rail leaking into the hull causing mst of the damage. My biggest concern was the chain plates that were comepletely rotted due to the water damage that i was amazed they didn't rip out of the side of the boat. I had to make new chain plates to install, i also had to peel the hull, and reglass the whole hull and fair it then I gave it a awlgrip paint job. This is just an abridge essay on all the work that went into this job. Feel free to contact me with any detailed questions concerning this boat since I spent 2 years of my life working on these. Jim


----------



## evangeline44 (Jan 28, 2013)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

We must be mad!!
Just brought Evangeline K11 total rebuild coming up!

Does anyone know accurately how many were built in total?
How many owners on this site?


----------



## evangeline44 (Jan 28, 2013)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

I would be interested to know where the rail leaks were worst - and how you repaired /replaced them.


----------



## EvelynL (Dec 17, 2012)

*F & c 44' ketch*

Do you have any specifications or designs on this boat?? I have a contract out on one and would like to know more about this boat, and it's design... And issues...

Thanks...

Thomas
([email protected] icloud . com)


----------



## slowgoose (Nov 28, 2011)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

F&C 44 - I own K-20 here in Stamford CT - does anyone know where I can get construction drawings? Specifically I am considering whether to repair or replace the rudder - for no other reason than it's 30+ years old. Does anyone know if the armatures in the rudder were built of stainless or mild steel?
Any knowledge would be appreciated. Many thanks, 
Will Robinson


----------



## evangeline44 (Jan 28, 2013)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

I emailed the Frers office about 2 years ago and they confirmed that the original drawings are with them on file-a copy would cost $100 PER SHEET!

I declined their offer.

The shaft is obviously SS so one would presume that the armature is too.
BUT you never can be too sure so how about drilling a couple of holes you could also check how wet the core is at the same time and not too much hassle to fill and fair - would be interested to hear what you discover.


----------



## slowgoose (Nov 28, 2011)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Thank you - opening it up may well be the way to go - the more I can find out about the construction before opening her up, the less I may need to open up - I am waiting to hear back from Frers I'll be happy to share what I find out.
Thanks again.


----------



## echoffmanjr (May 20, 2010)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Hello, I own #19 SKYE Rye, NY for the last 8 years now in Great Island Boat Yard Harpswell Maine. To all above comments we suffered a srtructural crack in the topsides which upon investigation led to removing all chain plates as the water sitting inside the hull had delaminated the entire area around the plates. The point of water entry as has been referenced was the toe rail. We replaced that, repaired and rebuilt the plates, peeled the hull and reglassed using an infusion technique that should have eliminated the air pockets surrounding the original chain plate construction. new boat! The toe rail and the chain plate tang are the culprits. The steel chainplates and I suspect the rest of the steel used 30 years ago in Argentina was not high quality stainless steel, just plain carbon steel and hence more easily rustable. I dropped my rudder years ago because it was "wobbly", the pintal and gudgeon were refabricated and it's been fine since.

Happy to discuss further. ECH


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Hallo, I own # K16, Baltic See, since 23 years. I had the toe rail and teak deck replaced in 2003. Yet no structural work on chain plates and rudder.
Quantification of water insite the laminate is difficult above steal, so I do not 
trust in the measurement. I only hope for the following years.

I am very much interested in other experience/comments.


----------



## EvelynL (Dec 17, 2012)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

I have some original Drawlings in JPG format for the K-22 Hull we own... Happy to share if interested... Have Ariel View + Rudder Chain Plate Design and Specs (in Spanish of course). 
Most F&C owners know us on here already, however, I have not met another owner with a K-22 HULL... I assumed there is more than just one of us out here? Or is the numbering sequence unique since they only made 50 of these in Argentina?


----------



## slowgoose (Nov 28, 2011)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Thanks so much. We're practically neighbors! - I have seen the pics on the internet of the repairs to your boat, and she certainly looks like a new boat. I too have the "wobble", the rudder is off now and it looks like at the very least I will be replacing the bearing that it sits in. Did you have any moisture in the rudder - did you have any concerns for the integrity of the steel armatures for offshore work? Thanks again.
Will Robinson.


----------



## EvelynL (Dec 17, 2012)

*Re: F&C 44 Dodger*

Would love to see photos of the Dodger photos if you finally had a dodger made? Sent you a Private Message...


----------



## slowgoose (Nov 28, 2011)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Hi Evelyn,

Didn't get your private message - oh and I don't have a custom dodger - think that was another owner. Thanks


----------



## slowgoose (Nov 28, 2011)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

RUDDER:

FYI to fellow owners - I have just had a new rudder for K-20 made by Foss Foam - not fitted yet so I'll update at that point. 
When the old one was pulled apart Foss Foam reported that it was actually in good condition and both the core and stock were in good shape. Making me wonder why I erred so far in the direction of caution in the first place! 
However in removing the stainless heel of the old rudder the yard reported that the bolts through the skeg that held the heel ( or gudgeon) onto the skeg were heavily corroded. It may be worth taking a look if you're heading offshore any time soon. The bushing that the stock sits in in the gudgeon was also worn, in a similar manner to an earlier post, causing a little bit of play ( especially when overpowered in a stiff breeze) and a new one is fabricated.


----------



## evangeline44 (Jan 28, 2013)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Thanks for the update


----------



## EvelynL (Dec 17, 2012)

*Frers F&C 44*

EC,

Owner of 'Explorar Conmigo' K-22 Hull. I would love some photos of your rudder work, and specifications on the parts you either purchased and or had fabricated for the pintal and or gudgeon? I noticed some serious rusty water exiting my Rudder one afternoon after haul out-- the long stream of rusty water concerns me for what lies inside the rudder and it's integrity-- and how long I have until something happens.
Thanks,
Thomas 
(Galveston, TX)


----------



## EvelynL (Dec 17, 2012)

*Frers F&C 44*

Thanks for the update slowgoose! Would also like to see any photos that you have documented of this refit of the rudder...


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Hello,
I have a new question to the community of F&C44 owners.
On Hull Nr.:K16 I realized a leckage at one opening window/hatch in the superstructure. The windows had been installed from inside. The outside coverage is not fixed in the window frame. The fixation of the frame from inside seems to be bolt and skrew nut. The problem is the access to the skrew nut.
I wonder whether I have to remove the hole wodden panel before I can refix it.
Does anyone understand the system.
Regards
Klaus


----------



## evangeline44 (Jan 28, 2013)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

my windows/portlights now all out for re-finishing.
Inner frames all screwed through inner wooden lining through the intervening gap and inter the coachroof moulding. No Nuts.
Outer trim ring just screwed into coach roof.
Lots of old Goop seemed not to have solved the problem for the PO
Will be putting West epoxy into all the old holes, re drilling and rebedding.

If you need pics of the now removed empty holes message me.


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Thank you very much for your answer.
Still I ask myself why they used such a thread on the bolts. They are definitely
not made for fixation in wood or grp.
Maybe they glued female-skrew-nuts into the coachroof from inside?
nevertheless I now know that I can risk to remove it.
I would be grateful for getting a picture of the installation/hole.
Thank you in advance.
Regards


----------



## EvelynL (Dec 17, 2012)

K-22 here... I removed the plexiglass ports, and replaced them with tempered glass, and rebed each Port with high quality Butyl Tape-- not a leak again in two years running I have owned her. 
It is the 5-Part seal that is critical... (Yes I am including the outter chrome plated brass 'flange')


----------



## JBJ (Oct 1, 2015)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

I have been interested in buying an F&C44 for some time and wish to get an opportunity to sail with an experienced owner to appreciate the boat at sea and check if it is what I am looking for. I never owned a boat of this size and was puzzled with a short trial I did once recently. Meanwhile I remain very attracted by the boat and wish to learn more about her.
Could one of the current owners invite me onboard? I am based in the Netherlands and can travel a reasonable distance. 
JB ([email protected])


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Reading your post, I realized having exactly the same problem that you discribed. The chain plates on my F&C44 hull K16 are rotten.
The craftsmen on the yard are puzzled about the whole construction. Having only two of these boats in Gemany means the yards have no experience in this kind of reconstruction. So I would be glad if you could give me information about the
step by step progress of the repair. Especially photographs from imside/outside that show the approach and complexity would be very 
helpful.
I thank you in advance for assistance
Regards
Klaus
[email protected]


----------



## evangeline44 (Jan 28, 2013)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Hi Klaus
We have not touched Evangelines Chainplates YET!

A previous post on this thread refered to a re-fit carried out by Great Island Boatworks in Maine on a sistership.
I looked at their website a couple of years ago and sure enough there was a good selection of pics showing the peeling of the topsides, removal of the old chainplates, fabrication and redesign of new replacement and fitting and fairing.
The work looked to be of a fantastic quality.

UNFORTUNATELY I have just checked on the up-dated website and these pics are no longer there!
In fact their site has been totally up-dated and only more recent re-fits are featured.

I can only suggest that you email them via their link, and ask very nicely if they could send you a link to the previous website or picture attachments.

Let me know how you get on.

Good luck and kind regards

Neil & Sue


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Hello Neil and Sue,
thank you very much for your answer and assistance. 
I already mailed to Great Island Boatworks and got no reply yet. A costumer from Europe will surely not pass the ocean for a refit.
The problem concerns mainly the older models with three chain plates for the main-mast on both sides, on which the material in the hull
is not really waterresistant and rust with the time.
Thank you once more for your help.
Kiind regards Klaus


----------



## evangeline44 (Jan 28, 2013)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Hi Klaus,
Evangeline is K11 so about the oldest I've come across on various Fora. Do you know of any earlier ones?
She was launched in August 1979. So like yours she has the chainplates bonded into the hull - a serious design flaw.

Quite agree about not crossing the Atlantic for the work but if they (GIBW) would let you see the pictures I just thought they would be very useful to yourself and certainly useful to another repair yard in Europe.

I monitor the slight bulges where the chain plates are on a regular basis but as Evangeline has been out for our re-fit for 3 years ( West system decks, new betamarine engine and hydraulics, new rig, electrics, plumbing etc. etc...........)
Until we get her sailing again this summer we can only pray that there is still plenty of strength there , as we cannot afford the costs required or the interior damage that would result in order to get access from the inside.

WHEN we have to replace them I would think seriously about mounting external 'strap' type traditional chainplates through-bolted to internal pads. I think that done properly with a horizontal spreader to space them out from the topsides and toerail and to counteract the tumblehome in the topsides would look OK and in-keeping with the now 'traditional' look of the F&C so the old chainplates could stay in and just be cut off flush with the deck.
The above may be a bit difficult to understand but I could knock up a quick sketch if that would help you.

The downside would be the loss of sheeting angle for overlapping foresails.
But not racing anyway and gentlemen never go to windward!!??

Regards
N&S


----------



## Holthoefer (Feb 14, 2009)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Hello Neil & Sue, As far as I have heard "Fjord VIII" from 1978 is the oldest grp one and was former owned by the Frers family.
You can find the boat on the internet because it is offered by the Broker Jose Frers.
Like you, I had already replaced nearly everything on the boat including teak deck and toerail in former years.
I am not shure about the necessity of a chain plate reconstruction. Bulges can only be seen up high out of water and did not change over the years. Two holes through the laminate to the steal structure revealed rust in the upper region , not in the lower.
In the end I prefer a perfect reconstruction with rigg change to the later models. That means only one chain plate for the main mast at each side and an additional forestay. Very important is a change of the passing through the deck. The old system is never leakproof.
I wish you good luck with your idea, but the delamination would not be solved.
Regards Klaus


----------



## evangeline44 (Jan 28, 2013)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Good Evening Klaus
From your last post, do I infer that some previous boats had been built in Wood? That's news to me, you obviously have greater knowledge of the marque. Do you know what 'K' number the boat you mentioned has?
Do you think that it would be a good idea to set up a small stand- alone website for all F&C 44 owners? I certainly do.
It would be nice to have a map with pins to show how widespread our beloved boats are, And what a forum to share our joint knowledge on!

We were at one time in touch with Thomas in Texas via email but lost all data regarding this .
you can contact us directly on [email protected]
 any other owners still watching this thread please feel free to contact. But no time wasters please as we have a re-fit going on!
Regards
N&S


----------



## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*



Holthoefer said:


> Reading your post, I realized having exactly the same problem that you discribed. The chain plates on my F&C44 hull K16 are rotten.
> The craftsmen on the yard are puzzled about the whole construction. Having only two of these boats in Gemany means the yards have no experience in this kind of reconstruction. So I would be glad if you could give me information about the
> step by step progress of the repair. Especially photographs from imside/outside that show the approach and complexity would be very
> helpful.
> ...





evangeline44 said:


> Hi Klaus,
> Evangeline is K11 so about the oldest I've come across on various Fora. Do you know of any earlier ones?
> She was launched in August 1979. So like yours she has the chainplates bonded into the hull - a serious design flaw.
> 
> ...


Not sure why the yard is puzzled by this construction method, it is quite common. Island Packet still uses it to this day. Irwin and lots of others in the 70's used it. They theory is that it makes the hull to chainplate attachment as strong as the hull, but in reality it is a cost savings measure, and does promote corrosion of the stainless steel. If I replaced with titanium chain plates (now not that much more than quality Stainless) I would consider just bonding them in again as you would not worry about oxygen deprived corrosion. But bets practice is to design some sort of attachment method that is not embedded, like installing knees. But you will want to run it by a navel architect. Exterior is a possibility as well.


----------



## CEC45 (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Hello everyone. I have owned # 44 TARITA. Chainplates work has been successfully carried out under German Frers (h) supervision at the Yacht Club Argentino, at F & C44 Samarkanda. At this moment a new teka is being installed on the whole deck.

Greetings from Argentina.
Carlos Enrique Canay Bao


----------



## bennettyachting (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Hi there F&C 44 owners. Does anyone have knowledge of the boat for sale in Maramis Turkey? She is in rough shape, needs to have the teak deck removed, and a bunch of other repairs. I am a boatbuilder and looking to restore and go Blue water to NZL. Gathering info from the broker now but would love to hear from any of you about your experiences.

Kind regards. Brian Bennett


----------



## CEC45 (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

I was checking for the ship in Marmaris and I was informed that I would have to remove the teak and make it again, or with another wood. There are some 44 who have taken the medera but for me the boat is no longer the traditional one. It is true that it is a very expensive job.
When the teka is not given due care, the leaks begin and that is where the problem of the chain plates comes up. ALWAYS around the same ones you have to remove sealing products and redo the work. Saludos. Carlos


----------



## thedude101 (Jun 22, 2017)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*



bennettyachting said:


> Hi there F&C 44 owners. Does anyone have knowledge of the boat for sale in Maramis Turkey? She is in rough shape, needs to have the teak deck removed, and a bunch of other repairs. I am a boatbuilder and looking to restore and go Blue water to NZL. Gathering info from the broker now but would love to hear from any of you about your experiences.
> 
> Kind regards. Brian Bennett


Met the owner & family(west Londoners) about 3 years ago in Turkey when he was on route to Marmaris,
he must be ill or died because he was well into this boat and talked to me about how he bought her in S.America and sailed her across Atlantic with his family. They were finished Cruising & he asked me if i knew a broker i advised peter in Marmaris.She is currently at yacht marina uncovered leaking water through decks that have penetrated wood panelling and made stains.
I don't know if she will go through another rainy Marmaris winter/spring well.
the asking price has been reduced to £35k but with leaky deck work,chain plates, interior woodwork etc its not looking a viable project.


----------



## guggech (May 1, 2015)

*Re: Frers F&C 44*

Hi Jim,
I read your post on Sailnet about chain plates replacement on the F&C44 I am considering purchasing a F&C 44 that need chain plate replacement. What is the cost involved? I am pretty good at fiberglassing and wondering how much work is involved.
Thanks,
Charles Guggenheim
831-238-5393


----------



## SVCHARDONNAY (Nov 25, 2020)

I have been tasked with moving a F&C 44; beautiful boat but the drive train isn't working. Engine starts, I can feel her going in gear, but the hydraulic pump (oil level full) isn't doing anything (motor isn't turning shaft). Does anyone have documentation on this drive train we can start with? We're doing "blind" troubleshooting right now. Thanks in advance, [email protected]


----------



## Smith71 (8 mo ago)

Holthoefer said:


> *F&c 44*
> 
> Hallo James,
> if I am correct, your question about F&C 44 is very old and still without answer. I joint the sailnet community yesterday and found your post.
> ...


Hello - I Thea Hull-Nr 57 - I’d like to know more of the F&C 44 Atlantic crossings and other long distance voyages if there’s anyone out there that has the stories?


----------



## Evelyn L (3 mo ago)

SVCHARDONNAY said:


> I have been tasked with moving a F&C 44; beautiful boat but the drive train isn't working. Engine starts, I can feel her going in gear, but the hydraulic pump (oil level full) isn't doing anything (motor isn't turning shaft). Does anyone have documentation on this drive train we can start with? We're doing "blind" troubleshooting right now. Thanks in advance, [email protected]


Hello... F&C 44' Owner in Jacksonville, FL-- preparing for Pacific crossing in near future... We have a MeWe group for boat owners... Scott-- I'd like to know how you resolved this pump issue. Sounds like the shift controller might be worn out from the sounds of it-- as I had issues with mine once upon a time....

Cheers,

Skipper T
Hull# 
K-22


----------

