# Cruising With Children



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

ALL SAILNET MEMBERS WHO ARE INTERESTED:​
I have had MANY conversations over the last year with many of you regarding cruising with kidos. The conversations have ranged from what it is like, to the right boat, to the right gear.

I am currently in the process of putting together an Article on this. I have discussed the basic points of it with Sailnet and expect a lot of participation both from the outside and inside. I am currently enlisting other families that have cruised with children to give a lot of different view points, including Melanie Neale (and likely her sister), the daughters of Tom Neale whom I am sure many of you know from his coutless articles in Cruising World and his book: All in the Same Boat.

I want it to be informative, fun, and helpful to those that are cruising with their kids. You do not have to be a f/t cruiser appreciate this. Many of the things covered will be applicable to those that are just charterers, weekenders and those that plan to cruise with their families in the future.

*What I would like are any thoughts or questions that you have.* If you are a newbie, this is the time to come out of the closet and post. If you are experienced cruising with children and would like to help, please reply here or PM me and I will try and include you.

So.... WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW!!!! Put your thoughts and questions here and let's see if we can get this rolling. I will let it sit for a week or two and will try and keep it at the top so we can get as many responses as possible.

Thanks for your help and thoughts.

- CD


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

By the way, here is the fam:​


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## Sialia (Feb 14, 2006)

Cruisingdad,

This is a great idea and one that will be helpful to all of those thinking about cruising with their kids. 

When my wife and I decided to cruise with our two sons and two dogs, we spent a lot of time planning every aspect of the trip - maybe a book would be better! When we first broached the topic of cruising with kids, years before we actually left, we talked about everything from where we planned to sail to medical issues and insurance. There was so much to think about that we split up the responsibilities so that we could get through it all. Here's my first stab at some of the things we considered. I will add to this over the next week.

Sailing with kids had a big impact on: the layout of the boat and where we were willing to sail - my risk tolerances when singlehanding are very different when sailing with kids.

Health and Medical insurance. My wife did all the research on issues related to health including: what to include with the medical bag - don't forget the dogs' issues; medical evacuation in case of a serious emergency; how to take care of wounds; good providers of health insurance; etc.

Kids love dogs and there was no way we were leaving ours home. We ended up getting "British Passports" for our dogs and were allowed into all islands in the Caribbean. This was a lengthy and expensive process but one that proved very helpful to us.

Transportation: the dinghy is the way around the harbor and we did not have the right one. I have thoughts on this and I am sure others do as well. Depending on the age of the kids, this may be a huge issue for debate.

Homeschooling concerns: what courses are best and how to get the most out of time with the kids in school. What impact does living on a boat vs. growing up in a traditional environment have - this is a big one for us.

Boredom - whether living on board or cruising for the week, kids need activity. One of the favorites of my kids was when I would read to them at night. I am no actor, but I did my best at different voices and they seemed to like it. We swam a lot and played constantly. 

I will add more tomorrow - hope this is what you're looking for.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

CD I'll participate in this.

We had a baby in March 2006, Little Luis. Now 15 months, and we have Fred, soon to be 10 YO, and a good sailor.










Every year we cruise for about 2 months, or better, we live aboard for 2 months and cruise the Southern coast of Portugal and Spain. I modify my boat for that purpose in June, so cruising is more confortable for the kids and wife, I even have a Lazy Bag and an ugly dodger, to provide shadow for the kids, and shelter for my wife against the wind. (other than that its useless, ugly and heavy).

Can't beat the hapiness in the kids eyes when they go inside the dodger, or "the tent" as they call it. (I admit taking a nap there every now and then).










So I think, before going inside the cabin, and describe what is best for us, or what works best for us, a good decent size (ugly) dodger is a key item. A Bimini is also important. I don't have one (thank God) because my rig does not allow me to have one. Besides, I think it would fly off, anyway..BUT, when we're not sailing I rig a canvas under the boom, covering the whole boat from the mast all the way back top the back stay. If we go sailing, its easly removed. We're all happy with it.

I also rig a Brasilian Net bed (don't know the name in English Hammock???) for the kids to use at the end of the day as a play thing. If adults are using it, I rig it on my spinnaker pole.










Last year, we spent August and September at sea with both kids. The baby was the "chalenge" which in the end was not a chalege.

He was 5 months when we started, and later 7 months old when we finished. it. He must have loved it too!! He's my son!!

First thing was a life vest, those with a thing behind his neck, to keep the head out of the water, otherwise with the diaper floating he turns around and drowns. Must have a handle to pick the bugger up should he go overbord.
Later a friend, a very good friend, but a poor sailor,and very uggly too, gave my son a Mustang life preserver that he now uses.










Second SUN BLOCK, lots of it factor 1.000.000.000 gazzilion, because even with cold air they get sunburn. We used factor 60 in summer. All good, but apply at least every 2 hours, because Luis would eat it of his skin.

We also got one of those cloth chairs, (see in photo, in front of the port wheel), so that he could be outside while we were sailing. It was attached to the floor so when heeling he would be confortable, and not moving around. The chair was moved inside for feedings, and when we needed him still while we were doing something else. Sometimes he felt asleep on it and it was ok, so don't go cheap on his chair. However, remeber, it must be securely attached to the boat, BUT easy to remove should you need to abandon ship.










Get a lot of kids toys and hang them where he will be most of the time. Luis loved the end of my ropes and kept them moist for me most of the time!!!










For his bath we got an inflatable tub!! We have hot water in the heads so if you don't have hot water, get a heater.










We got him several pillows and he used to sleep first in his cot, and because he was 24 lbs then!!!, he was too big, so we covered one of the aft cabins with pillows and sheets, so he could move around. In case of bad weather, my other son would go down with him and keep him company, but he allways felt asleep in bad weather!! Pulls after his mum.

Remember, when alone they move, so cover everything where he might hit his head, with pillows, lots of them.










That was last year. this year he has his own bed room in the boat, I covered the floor with pillows and his bed with all kinds of toys. When he is sleeping I rig a net from West marine so he does not fall from his bed. He learnt how to get out of his bed, but so far only while he is awake. When sleeping he stays inside!! 

We got a nice beach tent for him and a sun umbrella, and we only go to the beach after 4 pm, when the risks of the Sun are less.










We used to carry gallons and gallons of water for his bottles, and I allways kept them bellow his bed to keep the water cool. My wife got a blender, and used to make his soups at the marina because it is 220V, then keep them in the refirgerator in small flasks. This year I bought a 12V blender in the USA. So that is also done.

Get him a spare hat, they fly off really easy. And insect repellent.
Sometimes we would cry, and my wife used to get him on a marsupial bag, see photo. This one actually floated!!. She could then seat confortably with him, while we sailed.










My son was too small to move around, but for my other one, when he was small I covered my boat with nets on the railing.

He never stopped us from going anywhere, so do that to yours or you'll regret it later.

Sometimes we would give him RUM, but he would allways fall asleep at the wheel, when it was time for him to take the boat, so he got fired.










And occasionally he was allowed a girlfriend or two so we had a litle boat filled with water to cool them off!!!










remember this. Its a family trip or holiday, not just yours, don't be selfish and want to sail or do only "your" things.

Everyone on the boat is entiteled to do his/hers thing...many days the wind was perfect for a sailing day, but..the kids wanted to play or swim or anything else. Living on a boat is almost 100% of give and take, if its only take take take...you end up alone.

Keep the kids happy, do fun things for them, like this...










Let them drive...










Use the life vests...










and let the wife rest whenever she can....your holidays will go by like a charm...










Visit desert islands and bury treasures...do treasure hunts like I do with my kids...(of course you need to go bury the treasures at midnight, while they're sleeping,) but in the next day, I would leave an old map of the treasure in a bottle, and pretend it was attached to my rudder....they love it.....I would let them find the bottle, and retriev the map...Thre treasure?? Candy, (remove the wrapers, they're not stupid, and crappy stuff I bought in fairs...










I let my kids use the dinghy, after they proved they can row and know how to get by with the engine. Safety first. Fred is at ease in the water, so he drives the dinghy...its his job.

You can't imagine the joy of a child when he finds a treasure and it contains a whistle!!! (thanks Val!!!)


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I think I've solved the mystery behind why Giu actually broke his boom... he tried to do this,










but being much larger, the boom couldn't handle it.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Giulietta said:


> and let the wife rest whenever she can....your holidays will go by like a charm...


Classical!! ..........


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Giu & Sialia,

GREAT! THis is what we are looking for!!

I will also try and add a bunch to the equation! I also urge anyone who is interested in cruising with kids to post with any questions and thoughts and concerns.

On a side note, of interest to me and many others, will be what happens when you come back and how do you integrate back into society? This would be a great one for the Neale's. 

Thanks for all the thoughts. Keep posting. I will try and keep this thing going for a while to get as many views or questions as possible.

See ya.

- CD


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

CD,
My daughters are 6 and 8, and as I think I've mentioned on this forum, we're looking to take a six-month cruise in a couple of years. Being school-age, I'd like to get the gist of home schooling aboard. I'm sure it's not terribly different from home schooling at home around the kitchen table, but I'd think it would only be enhanced while afloat. Any info in that arena would definitely get my attention. By the way, excellent idea, and lots of luck. It's going to be a fantastic piece of work...


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Thanks SH. We will add that to the equation.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

I was standing around the docks here at Manteo the other day, watching all the kids, and found myself thinking how much I would have liked to be a cruiser growing up. The learning experience, to me, would be well worth the seperation from land based activities.

Good idea CD. Looking forward to watching you flesh it out.

_Currently at 35 54 33 N 75 40 06 W_


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Thanks PB.


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## winddancer88 (Oct 2, 2006)

Giu,

Where did you find the 12v blender? Been looking for one for years!


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Just thought of a potential chapter topic: How to have a knock-down-drag-out fight with the wife without waking the kids.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

SH,

It is funny, but I will probably brush on that a bit. Not the fighting part, but the reality that a bunch of people in a confined space raises tensions, and the thing swe do to try and reduce them.

- CD


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Windancer:

Sailnet sells them: Sailnet.com - community, sailing resources, shopping, sail, blogs

About $15 less than West.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I posted this on the cruising forum, but here it is again....

My husband and I have an 8 month old right now, and are planning to start a 2-3 year cruise in 5 years. We are wondering a few things and hope those of you out there with kids can help us out.

First, anyone sailing with just 1 child? What's that like? Are they missing peers or does it seem okay? (At this point, it's hard to tell exactly what our son's personality will be, so general advice would be great)

Second, our son will be almost 6 when we take off. This seems like an ideal age, but what is your experience?

At this point, we're still not sure if we are going to go for #2, or if we do what the spacing will be. For many reasons, 1 child makes sense to us, but we are worried about isolating him too much when we take off on our journey. Since we plan to spend lots of time anchored and with other cruisers, I imagine that there will be plenty of other children for him to play with....

I suppose this is just the beginning of lots of questions...BUT we all have to begin somewhere!


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## dakuehn (Aug 21, 2006)

CD--I will likely never cruise, but will be doing some sailing on Grapevine with the family as soon as the water receeds. I have 3 year and 8 mo. old boys and would be very interested in your advice on child-profing the boat--your advice about netting around the lifelines and stanchions to catch toys comes to mind.


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## welshwind (Feb 27, 2005)

*Learn the tolerances of your family*

We don't cruise as in go away for months at a time. However, we do a week at a time and the most important thing I have learned is how to handle the boat in such a way that it pushes but doesn't cross the line of comfortableness (I made that word up). What do I mean by this?

I have the admiral and three daughters. Two of my daughters and I like it heeled over, blowing hard and going for the gusto. The admiral and my other daughter really get scared under those conditions. I have learned where their tolerance level is and how to control the boat in such a way to make the sail as enjoyable as possible for all. In return, they understand that there are simply times, no matter how much careful thought and preparation were given to weather reports and the like, when the winds and waves do something unpredictable and have learned to hang on and not blame the captain for the situation. This peace and harmony is very important to happiness on the boat and, equally important, when your destination is reached. Nothing worse than being in a beautiful port with the admiral angry about the manner of sail to get there.


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## winddancer88 (Oct 2, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Windancer:
> 
> Sailnet sells them: Sailnet.com - community, sailing resources, shopping, sail, blogs
> 
> About $15 less than West.


Thanks, CD. I'll check it out. IIRC, Coleman used to have a battery powered version. . .

edit: Found it!: Joe's - Coleman Portable Blender


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

*Sailollie*,

We will cover it. Put as many questions and thoughts as you can here. Again, this is only the question session. I will put together an article to cover it all (though as Sialia said, it will likely be the size of a book).

Again, put some thoughts together on questions so we do not miss anything.

*Dakuehn*,

We will try and cover that too.

*Welshwind*,

Thanks for the thoughts.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Here are the things I have put down to cover. They are in no particulair order. Please send me more:

1) Boat selection.
2) What it is like.
3) Setting up the boat.
4) Activities aboard and off.
5) Gear.
6) Provisioning.
7) Education
8) Safety and rules.
9) Medicines and first aid afloat.
10) The Return to land life and how kids re-integrate into society.
11) (Per Melanie Neale) What Happens to Cruising Kids when they Grow up.
12) Peer influence/social influence
13) Ideal age
14) Surviving together in 30-40 feet.
15) Health and medical insurance
16) Explaining to family members and friends why you are going and the cruising life in general.

What else?

- CD

PS I am putting these together in an ever expanding list. I am taking the input from Sialia and Giu and the many others that have responded here and have asked questions in the past. THere will be topics here that I CANNOT answer. That will be the fun of it. It will be kind of a group project.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

CD,

More to the point for me, how do I make Mom happy while cruising? I believe that I can make the kids happy most of the time, using the great advice given so far among other tactics. What worries me is my wife, who is on board with the concept of cruising with the kids, but is subject to boredom and doesn't sit still that well. Having a decent boat would help (I'm working on that part!), and going interesting places that are fairly short in distance, at least to start. Any other thoughts about the marriage and Mom's well being while cruising would be great.

Thanks,
Freeman


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

From what I can see from a scan of the posts is that they are geared toward young children. We first took our daughter on the boat at 3 mos and she's been on the water ever since. In our experience, young kids are relatively easy to have since they're so self contained. Just take their toys, crayons, pencils, a stack of paper, a bucket, a kite, a movie or 2, and they're happy anywhere. 

The problem is that they grow up! We've been VERY liberal with bringing our daughter's friends along with us and we've found that they entertain each other. A day that could/would have been spent with a sour attitude was brightened and more fun for everyone on board. Our daughter is now 13 and I can see a day when she'll not want to come on a two week trip unless a boy is involved (No way! says Dad). I kind of recall a time when I was that age and I balked at sailing, but have apparently gotten over it.

Does anyone have experience sailing with teens? Especially girls? She really isn't interested in the boat's operation (maybe it's just a guy thing). But is competent when asked to tie a line, fend off, etc.... so I guess that she's learned a thing or two.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Bardo/Freeman,

I will try and include some thoughts to that under surviving in 30-40 feet!!!!

- CD


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

I just thought of another: Punishment afloat/effective lashing techniques.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

SH,

That is called standing watch.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

I think I really have to say something its bugging me for a while, (sorry guys) I think it is absolutely *cruelty* to go out and sail for years in a row with a kid of 4, 5 6 or 7 years old, or even 2 or three. I see sometimes the people that go around the world with a young kid onbord, as they stop here, it makes me so sad...sorry...I can't understand how can those parents be so selfish to the point of sacrificing the childhood of their kids, just to satisfy their personal selfish whims of freedom and World curiosity....the kids grow up to be starngers to the things of life...good made man and girls, but I don't know....

I see the kids....the ones in the crusing boats that stop here...they look like sad kids to me, Have'nt seen one that "looks normal" or happy. Sometimes my son Fred goes out and tries to play with them at the marina...THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY, PEOPLE!!!!! Its not one or two or three, its at least 4 boats a month that stop here....the kids look like strangers, they lack contact with other kids..its so sad. Please note I know the contact with Mum and dad all day long is important, BUT ITS NOT BALANCED, no matter how you try...its not enough, we are not humans to be brought up like that....

Those years are so important for the making and building of the life character and personality of a child, the comunication with other kids their age, the human interaction besides the Mum and Dad. I know the mum and Dad being there is important, but the Grandma, the school plays, the soccer team, the little play friend, the movies, Barney....the other things that are not available to the kid because the parents decided to go around the world...( I am not talking about those that live on a boat, but in one place and kids get to go to school like it is normal...I'm talking about the sea gypsies....

I don't know, no matter how much I like sailing, I would never impose living on a boat *and sail around *(unless I had no other option) to my kids, that would be presuming on a friendship...I don't do that...my kids are worth more than my desires to sail to Madagascar....

Want to cruise around the world with kids?? do it during the school holidays, send the kids to school as its normal, let them live their life, give them that chance...sometimes I am away from my kids, maybe I cherish them more because of that then the dad that sees his kids every day...maybe....

Want to cruise all in one go??? GO ALONE...OR DON'T HAVE KIDS!!!!!

Its cruel.....very cruel...

Sorry I spoke my mind, and I know I will get tortured here...I don't care....I am the one that sees the kids around here...the poor litlle bastards to whom a World cruise is imposed to satisfy the selfish whims of their parents....and nothing was asked...

I see their eyes, folks...I see their eyes......


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

my son is 9, his so called "room" is a quarter berth. i guess he's at a stage where he needs his privacy so he requested we fabricate a curtain to isolate him from the rest of the boat. i installed 12v lighting, a 12v power jack and CD/DVD, video game wooden storage crates secured to the hull with locktight powergrab...ahhhh, peace at last.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Giu,

You bring up another thing to be discussed, which I think should be touched on here. I have heard that many, many, many times.

That is why, in my opinion, you cruise - _for the kids too_. We have no aspirations of circling the globe. But cruising boats with kids find one another and hang out together. That ended up being the case for us. Some of our best friends in the world were on a stink-pot behind us. They have 2 girls, both the same ages as Glen and Chase, and would do anything for us and we would do anything for them. 1300 miles away, they are still our closest friends.

Maybe what you see are the parents that are going to sail around the world, come hell or high water? Maybe to them it is the trip that is important, not the inbetween? To those children, they would have the same look no matter if by boat or RV or minivan on its way to the soccer game.

I will tell you that Melanie Neale LOVED it and when I spoke to her last week she said that she wants her children to do it. I have heard that from many other people that cruised and have grown up now. That is what I strive for.

I am not some anti-socialite, Giu. You know me. In fact, my wife calls me the mayor because everytime I get into a new harbor, I get all the cruisers to gether for drinks or a cookout! I enjoy people and some aspects of society.

*However*, I do not buy the goverments and societies views on how we should raise our children or what they think is normal. Shopping malls, play stations, and television is not normal. It is something that could be good in moderation, but we have molested and corrupted our perceptions into believing it is normal.

The kids I see here, especailly in the cities, are not happy. Mom and dad work just to make ends meet. Dad gets home late if at all. Weekends are a rush to finish the chores. THe lawn is mowed by immigrants. THe house is cleaned by immigrants. Restaurants cook more meals than the stove at home. Salad comes from a bag, home cooked meals from a can. And the education is a racial, political abomination of government standards for medicoricy.

There was a thread a while back that said the days of Leave it to Beaver are gone and forgotten. They are not for me. My kids are close (but fight, that is normal). Me and the kids roll around in the floor and wrestle. We read books together. We go sailing together. We watch sunsets together. I plan on making the most of those years when they are close to mom and dad. The day will come, I am afraid, that they will want to distance themselves from us and find members of the opposite sex on their road to adulthood. If they want to cruise then, we will cruise. If not, we will not and will re-integrate into "society".

Until then, I hope to take them back out to see the world together. Do you realize how very, very lucky we are to get the chance to do this? Do you realize how very, very rare it is? We will seek out other cruising boats with kids and we will travel with my parents who are going cruising with us. In that way, I guess we are different than the boats you mentioned above. However, I want my children to see the world and experience different cultures and different places. I want them to enjoy it and look back on it as the best years of their lives. The only thing less acceptable than the "kids that don't look normal" is not to try at all.

In all things in life, whether the slums, the cities, the country or the sailboat, it is the parents that make the difference. Children will seek influences at these ages and what they experience and learn here will mold them into the men or women that they will become. I want that influence to be mine, and not a shopping mall or a television. I want it to be nature and the beautiful things the world holds outside of miles of concrete where no life can exist.

You have to understand my Friend, what I see, repeatedly, are the parents that dump their kids off at T-Ball, or soccer games, or the mall, or the movies. They don't do it because it makes their kids normal, they do it because they don't care: free baby sitting. Is it because they do not love their children? Is it because they are worn out from the week before and need a break? Is it because the perceive it as normal? Who cares? The child does not. The end result is the same - we become a race (not just Americans) that have forgotten the importance of family. Such has our society become. And we wonder why children have the problems they do when they grow up.

Where I go and how I plan to do it is not "normal". But is that truly a bad thing? My children, my family, are my life. I have a true passion for cruising, and nature, and the ocean. I will share that passion with them. And should they become complacent or tired of it, then we will follow whatever trail makes them the most happy. If it is by boat, it is by boat. If it is by RV, it is by RV. If it is a house in the suburbs, it is a house in the suburbs.

But to the sea we will go. I truly hope to do it right.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks CD for that heartfelt response. 

It constantly amazes me how parents don't question the "normal" practices and just consume parenting like everything else. I think one of the hardest things we can do as parents is to be conscious parents; if that means parenting on the sea or suburbia, that's grand. Just make sure you choose, don't follow the lead put forth by your neighbors.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Interesting....

A couple of thoughts on kids and the water. As I indicated earlier, our daughter has been on the water since she was 3 mos old. In the 13 years since, she's seen osprey, sea turtles, dolphin, crabs, rays, sea snakes, etc, She's caught her lunch, seen the stars, bad water and a whole bunch of other stuff that most kids only read about. Sure, our love of the water was pushed on her but we think that she's benefited from it. We spend time together as a family, laugh, watch movies together on the laptop, and talk. At home we don't have cable - only a DVD player and TV. She cuts the grass and is expected to make good grades. She's not perfect, but no one is. Maybe she's more perceptive and self contained. Maybe she'd be that way anyway, but at least she has (mostly good) memories.

It's all part of a philosophy of charting our own course (pun intended) instead of following the crowd. BTW, we buy salad in a bag because it's smaller and doesn't go bad as fast. 

Sorry for the pontfication... I expect that these replies will be as personal as the parents involved...


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

CD, thanks for the write up, somehow you saw my "I feel sad about the kids that are forced around by their selfish parents in a boat", as aimed at you, if not, excuse my not understanding that..I know you're not the one doing that...I have spoken with you, remember??

I also agree that the Mall education is not a solution either...all in life needs balance.....balance is the word here...

I am not saying its bad to go around the world and show it to the kids..I do that everytime I travel, and if I can I take the whole family along, thanks to my trips to the US, Fred speaks english almost fluentely, knows the NY Museum of natural History, and Luis had a Dunkin Donut....and such...I agree with you on that...that is not what I meant....and somehow it veered off to "the other alternative" being mall education...I could not understand how it veered towards that, but I will try and read it again...basically you're saying well yes you're right, but its either sail with the kids for 2 years or get them to the mall...the mall is also wrong, but not everyone sends them to the mall, do they??

Your cruising, and what you plan on doing is OK, its not a 3 year project...you're not retrieving the kids from their habitat even if you sail for 1 year, as you said, you ralte to other and with other people..its those that don't, they are wrong, as are the mall mothers...but the solution to bad education (not school education, but home/ parent education) is not to get the kids on a boat and go to the Philipines...

I am talking about "the other" ones...those that decide to go one day, load the boat with food and school books and sail days and days and days across oceans to go see their stuff...These are the ones I am talking about..

I met a couple in Malta in 1995. The guy was a helicopter pilot from Australia, that was married and had 2 daughters...one day, he crashed and almost died...he woke up in the Hospital, sold the house, dragged (literaly) the family and they were on their second year at sea, because the guy saw the "movie in slow motion", just as he was getting his butt thru his head before he impacted the ground, and said, life's too short...we're getting a boat and we're going around the world....

The girls had no life....they looked two poor animals, deprived from life...just like the dog in the boat thing...there they were..two little girls, 12 and 10, if I remember...never had a boy friend, or a girlfriend, haven't been in a movie in 2 years, they could order taco's in Swailly, or get chewing gum in Lebanon, but didn't know what to say to other people, they were looking at a young boy, like he was an ET!!!! they would spend weeks and months at sea, their lifes were destroyed...(I found out later, they departed 3 days after they had forseen, because the oldest girl creid she didn't want to go back on the boat, and ran away!!!!)...that was in my mind as if it was yesterday..I felt so sorry...this moron decided to drag is whole family to pursue his dream, and in the process shot his 2 girls and his wife's dreams and lifes...

His rights in my book, stop right were they inflict in the rights of others....

Our family relationships, and family social problems in my little country are so small compared to thos in the USA, I know I have seen it..

We still enjoy the family toghether thing, the traditional education of the kids, as our parents are less stressed out by their jobs as they are in the US...my reference in parenting is spoiled by the size of my county, its customs and ways of doing things...

In the US case...your points are valid, you know the defficient parentiong thing...here not so much...yet.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Sabreman said:


> Interesting....
> 
> A couple of thoughts on kids and the water. As I indicated earlier, our daughter has been on the water since she was 3 mos old. In the 13 years since, she's seen osprey, sea turtles, dolphin, crabs, rays, sea snakes, etc, She's caught her lunch, seen the stars, bad water and a whole bunch of other stuff that most kids only read about. Sure, our love of the water was pushed on her but we think that she's benefited from it. We spend time together as a family, laugh, watch movies together on the laptop, and talk. At home we don't have cable - only a DVD player and TV. She cuts the grass and is expected to make good grades. She's not perfect, but no one is. Maybe she's more perceptive and self contained. Maybe she'd be that way anyway, but at least she has (mostly good) memories.
> 
> ...


Sabreman, I agree 100% with what you say, I am now crusing for almost 2 months with the family, (only during school holidays), and we also do all that. It enriches their life and I wil do it till they rebel and don't want to do it...then I'll just sell the racer and buy a Nauticat and go with the wife, and my arthritis...

But, coming september, Fred goes to school to become a man, Luis too, my boat returns to our city, where he "lives", and I sail around my work and the kids free time.

I will never take my kids away from their normal life, to go around the world for 2 years...that is what I meant in my post.....


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

CD and Giu,
That exchange is fascinating. After I read Giu's post, it made me wonder if my plans for a six-month cruise was more about me than them. My girls love sailing, but they also crave the company of their friends. It seems to me that Giu makes a very good case for a book-length primer on the subject, which CD will eventually get around to writing. As he mentions in his post, kids these days will mostly be missing an overdose of pop culture and all the horrible **** that comes with it. I can't think of a better way to grow up than on a sailboat, surrounded by other families, for short periods of time. Anyway, that was a great exchange of views. I'll stay tuned.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Excellent discussion! CD...you may want to have a section discussing how to deal with relatives concerns about taking kids away from safety, away from "proper" socialization and away from them! 

My own feelings on cruising with kids can be summarized as follows:
1. A year or two or three of cruising can be a wonderfull experience for kids of a certain age (6-13 is my view). Yes they will miss out on a bit of land based stuff but they will benefit in many other ways as amply detailed above and on other threads. 

2. Parents have no right to drag kids out to sea if they are not totally competent sailors. There is a risk in everything we do in life but learning as you go is for Bumfuzzlers...not for parents.

3. Your dream may not be your kids dream. When you brought them into this world you made a choice that has responsibilities beyond putting food on he table and clothes on their backs. If they dream of "bending it like Beckham" you need to support that. Once they hit the teenage years they need to be on land to be with their peers, stretch their boundaries beyond 40 feet, and learn in a more rigorous school environment that will prep them for their own futures. Under 5 years old...they are essentially helpless and gain nothing from cruising...but you better be able to single hand as one adults responsibility in tough conditions will always be the baby. 

From what I've seen..the choice is not total isolation & social misfits or shopping mall rats. Lots of kids have grown up just fine after some sea miles....just as lots of kids who have only seen corn fields do well in life. 
I think the important thing is to be good parents by teaching kids your values by example and doing all you can to make sure they are given the best opportunity you can provide to pursue their own interests and talents.


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Just thought of another topic: How to comply with the terms of your parole while cruising.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

sailhog said:


> Just thought of another topic: How to comply with the terms of your parole while cruising.


Having been a single Dad, I laughed out loud when I read that.....


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I think CD has a chapter on that in his book... all from personal experience.


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

the 16 year old boy wouldn't have a problem taking off for 3-6 months at a time. 

the 14 year old girl, whole 'nother story... you know how most kids sleep with a teddy bear? this one has her cell phone in her hand, and the ipod stuffed in her ears. She goes piss-wacky when the cell phone loses service on the lake.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Alex/CD:

My wife and I are in fact proposing to do a circ during the five-year stretch (2009-14) when our boy will be between the ages of 8 to 13. If we find it detrimental to his development...or even if we just don't like it...we would stop, but whatever the outcome, we plan to be quite sociable with other cruising families, and in fact will seek them out. We also intend to stop once or twice for school terms in foreign countries so that our son can retain a sense of what a typical schoolroom is like.

Even though our boy is just short of six, he is very aware of environmental issues, and we have discussed fairly frankly, if by necessity in a simple way, our desire to show him the world before it changes, which we believe will happen in our lifetime, and his. He is aware that we are going *as a family*, not that he is going on Mum and Dad's adventure as spare crew.

Yes, he will not have a "typical" North American upbringing. Neither my wife and I had a particularly typical childhood, and we have some strong criticisms of how our society elects to raise kids, particularly children coming from the upper middle class to which we belong. We hope that being able to dive on a still-living reef, being able to fish and cook his own dinner, being able to speak other languages, being able to see how other peoples live and being self-reliant enough to help his folks run a small voyaging boat will compensate, if only in a small way, not knowing the latest Nintendo games, not getting driven in an SUV to soccer practice, not getting barraged by commercials on TV and not rotting of boredom in a classroom where the aim is not to convey knowledge, or to even learn how to think critically, but to "feel good about oneself" and to "cherish diversity". Meanwhile, we keep our children infantilized with crap merchandise and crap ideas, until puberty, at which point we bombard them with sexual imagery. Either way, I think this is a culture that hates its youth a little bit, and that this hate is expressed through marketing-driven morality.

We are stupid and literal: We think the best way to learn about "diversity" is to expose him to diverse things, places and people. We think the best way to teach him to think critically is to get him to make the wind and the waves and the boat his mentors in judging when to reef and when to run off. We think the best way to learn of the world is to travel it, and we are working extremely hard to achieve that goal as a family.

I am purchasing a sailing dinghy that a nine-year old will be able to assemble and sail. I am doing this in part because I suspect that by the age of nine or ten, my son will be responsible and mature enough to visit other boats by himself, and to stand a half-watch in the daytime. By 13, assuming we haven't killed him and ourselves through our horrible and abusive parenting, we may have a decent, self-reliant and confident young man, who can make a case for leaving the boat, or for continuing with his tedious and foolish parents. We'll just have to see, I suppose, if we can wring a few minutes of actual fun from this Voyage of the Damned we have planned.

My kid is learning to swim and to speak Spanish (Alex, he would prefer Portuguese, because a lot of the kids at his school speak it!). Next summer, he'll take Beginners' Sailing in a fleet of Optis. He already is "personalizing" his sea berth and is showing a great deal of interest in helming.

Whether he'll survive his parents' neglect is another matter, I guess.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Damn good plan Val!


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Thanks. It's only a plan, of course, so far.

On the other hand, I'm meeting a fellow tomorrow to discuss about $10,000 worth of welding modification I wish to make to our vessel, so if wallet-reaming is a marker of intent, we are pretty intent.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Hey Giu,

My comments were not aimed at you. Though some of the comments are directed to answer your questions, what you read was one American's view on the deteriorating conditions of our society - in his opinion. It will also help answer WHY I to do what I do and plan to go where I go.

There are countless great people in this country (and others) that raise their children perfectly fine without heading out to the sunset on a boat. But I have been fortunate enough to get a chance to take them places and show them things fe people on this planet will ever see - at any age. 

And you know what.... my kids LOVE the boat! THat makes a big difference.

- CD

Cam,

Yes, that is a very good topic to bring up - dealing with the families and friends that cannot understand a cruising life. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I will not be the right person to answer that (other than what was written above) because I have never recieved anything but support. In fact, as many of you know, my parents are actually going with us this time!! 

Still, it is an issue I will add.

- CD


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## ikrieger (Sep 11, 2006)

My daughter Madeline was born last week and we watched fireworks from the boat for 4th of july. She seemed to like sitting at the dock and the gentle rocking of the boat. I have yet to take her sailing, as my girlfriend is still recovering and can't move around the boat yet, but i'm planning on going asap.

Sialia, great post! I definitely got some good stuff out of it. Great pictures, reminds me of sailing with my dad. I hope Madeline likes sailing as much as I did. 

-Irwin


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

CD,
Another potential topic: Finding other cruising families. How do you go about seeking them out? How do you arrange a play date at sea, or in a strange port? Just a thought.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Cruiser SSB nets, shoreside markets, rowing toward the sound of children complaining: "Daaaaddd...there's nothing to do....."

Ironically, considering that sailing is supposed to be a solitary and somewhat isolating activity suitable for misanthropes, I expect to meet and socialize with a far greater number of complete strangers while anchored than I do walking down my neighbourhood streets.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Some interesting opinions about raising children. How about some more.

First let me say if this post is a little scatterbrained, it is because I have our 4 kids (1, 3, 4, and 5yo) till saturday afternoon. So the whole time I type I am saying to our 22 month old "stop, get down, exactly how did you get up there?, put it back, we don't throw things in the house, are you thirsty, what's that smell?

My wife has gone after our first boat. It's a pb with a cuddy to use on the lakes we have nearby. I have always been a pb'er and always wanted a large motorboat, the fuel prices have changed that. Later this fall we will purchase our first sailboat somewhere in the 26' range and trailerable and we will start lessons. In a couple of years we will move up to 36'-40'. Something bluewater capable. I was thinking that we could move one to the lake where my in-laws have a house and keep it there for a couple of years before taking it back to the ocean. The lake is only about 100 miles inland from Savannah, Ga., but that discussion is for another post.

I think children can be happy and well socialized no matter where they are. Cruising or not. Those children that come into port and don't know to interact with other children, its because the parents aren't making sure the kids have time of their life. Can you imagine the life on those boats? 

For us it's all about the kids. I would love them to see the world and know other cultures. I got to spend 3 weeks with 400 kids from about 180 different countries in 2000. I was one of the lucky 100 counselors at the Olympic Youth Camp in Sydney. I want our kids to have an experience like that and think beyond the confines of our everyday life. Cruising is one way to do it. Whether it is a little at a time or all at once they will have the time of their life. When they stop having fun it's time to change course. They need to be in on choosing destinations and activities as young as possible. If you generate enough interest your kids will even think the "Big Ball of Yarn" is cool. 

Dragging kids from one place to another is not my idea of fun. Taking kids to exciting places and making sure they have fun is. 

I think a section on what other parents do to keep their kids entertained while cruising.

I like the treasure hunt idea. Not many parents would go to shore at midnight hide some treasure and make a map just for their kids to have fun. good job Giu

Maybe a section on kids destinations as well.


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## knotaloud (Jul 6, 2007)

My family, mom, dad, brother 12 and me 17, have been on a number of long sailing journeys together and generally have it pretty much figured out. This year my parents and brother are sailing south by themselves and I am flying to San Diego to get on for the trip to Huatulco, Mexico. When we were younger, the only important things were time ashore and being in a marina, rather than on the hook; but now, as least for me, it's more important to have a life outside of cruising, (ie, friends). My brother and I are both home schooled, so we already miss out on some normal stuff, but then when you are 5000 miles from home it can get pretty old. I guess if you are cruising with little kids it's a lot easier than with older ones, but the same basics still apply: Private time, real food, internet, equal distribution of chores and most importantly, a dingy with a motor!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Some of this discussion reminds me of a conversation I had with some other parents, one of whom home schooled his kids. Another parent asked him if had considered how his kids were going to learn to socialize and he explained that there were outing organized with other home schooler and added "besides that, what passes for socialization in middle school would get you fired from most jobs". By the time I am able to do an extended cruise, my kids will be old enough to decide whether they want to go or not and their decision would affect where I would go and for how long. I doubt I will ever cruise more than the Carribean.


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## Jotun (May 4, 2006)

I think what I would be interested in most are activities for the kids and innovative/creative ideas to make like easier. I have to say our two most important kid items aboard are the portable DVD player and the pack-and-play (a play pen).


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

knotaloud said:


> I guess if you are cruising with little kids it's a lot easier than with older ones, but the same basics still apply: Private time, real food, internet, equal distribution of chores and most importantly, a dingy with a motor!


Thanks for your "real life" comments, K. We are taking our boy from ages 8 to 13 precisely because not only will he likely want the shore at 13, but he'll have already experienced a lot of sailing and will be entitled to a choice.

I'm typing this from the cockpit...sorry if there's typos! The wind is kicking up from the east after a day of come-and-go storms and the water's a bit nervous.

Good point about the outboard. We are getting as one of two tenders a sailing dinghy (nesting) that can take an air-cooled 4-stroke light enough for a strong kid to haul...the motor AND the dinghy. I hope at 17 you have an inkling as to why parents need a bit of "private time" as well.


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## knotaloud (Jul 6, 2007)

Valiente said:


> I hope at 17 you have an inkling as to why parents need a bit of "private time" as well.


Ah...yes....I've lived on a boat with my parents my whole life....I got the inkling a while ago. My little brother, not so much... he still doesn't understand why they insist we stay aboard, as they row ashore with a blanket and a bottle of wine.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hey Giuli, take your "cruelty" comment and shove it up you a**


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

svrenovatio said:


> Hey Giuli, take your "cruelty" comment and shove it up you a**


You might want to re-think what you wrote. *The context of what Giulietta wrote was directed towards a specific situation and does not necessarily apply to you. *

* Your child is going to be three according to your other post... taking him on a five-year cruise is altogether a different thing than doing it to a nine or ten-year-old child, who has existing relationships, school and societal connections that are rent asunder by taking them cruising without any warning.* A three-year-old child does not have those to the degree an older child does, and is not as dependent on those relationships, and the experiences he/she will gain from being abroad at such a young age can more than make up for the lack of the normal social fabric. *Tearing a child that is nine or ten away from her friends and a land-based life, to go cruising, without warning or preparation is definitely a cruel action.* It disrupts the norms of interaction and relationships that the child has become accustomed to and puts them in effective isolation at an age where isolation is really not a good thing, and changes can be difficult at that age. A three-year-old child is much more adaptable in many ways, being far less independent than a nine-year-old.

Don't be a [email protected] If you're being so defensive about your plans to take your child on a five-year cruise, then you might want to re-think why you're doing it.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

sailingdog said:


> ...
> *Tearing a child that is nine or ten away from her friends and a land-based life, to go cruising, without warning or preparation is definitely a cruel action.*
> ...


My kids are in elementary and middle school and we have discussed the possibility of moving locally to another house and just mentioning that we could get into another school district is a major powderkeg. One of my oldest daughter's best friends just got redistricted and it is ahuge deal to them (major cry fest over it) even though she will still be less than 5 miles away from us and there can be plenty of sleepovers and whatnot. I know lots of people move with their jobs and kids deal with it okay eventually. But IMO there is a big difference between being transplanted and uprooted. I agree that establishing cruising as the norm early would probably be far easier on parents and children.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

"I think it is absolutely cruelty to go out and sail for years in a row with a kid of 4, 5 6 or 7 years old, or even 2 or three"

Read the post before you respond SD. Again, I think he's the ass for making the mindless blanket statement.

I did not achieve what I have in life listening to people like him make thoughtless statements like this. Hell, some of what he says I agree with but to call what some choose to do that is VERY thought out and planed CRUEL does reach ass**** status in my book.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

arbarnhart said:


> But IMO there is a big difference between being transplanted and uprooted. I agree that establishing cruising as the norm early would probably be far easier on parents and children.


As I've stated elsewhere, my kid is currently a couple of months shy of six years old and we hope to begin voyaging in two years. He first "stepped" on a boat at five days of age and has many friends on other boats in the club. I don't see that the transition to an entirely boat-based life will be particularly wrenching, especially as we will be changing the scenery on a regular basis.

We are currently aboard for a few days simply because it is stinking hot in the city and at our house, and it is much cooler on the water. My son was asking for some toy on the boat last night and I said "Well, I guess you left it at home." His reply? "We ARE at home, Daddy, and I can't find it stowed _anywhere_."

So far, so good.

A personal request: Threads like this are very informative to me. Please keep things civil, or take it to the crazy Nazi choral groups full of crap in "Off Topic".


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I think what it comes down to is what kids are prepared for and/or used to. My kids would likely mutiny because we have lived in one house all their lives and they don't want or expect things to change. But that's not always the case. I have a coworker who lived in one place for much of his childhood until his parents divorced and then his mother married a telephone technician who worked for the state department. For obvious reasons, they don't use local people to work on the telephones at embassies, so his job sent him all over the world to install or upgrade phone systems and the jobs took long enough that his family went with him. My coworker thought this was one of the best things that ever could have happened to him. His wife, who he met overseas, agrees. It sounds like Val is setting expectations appropriately so that his son won't be uprooted because he will already be growing hydroponically.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Thank you everyone for the many excellent replies and discussion. I am going to try and keep editing the post on the ITEMS TO TALK ABOUT with the additional thoughts that have come up.

*svrenovatio*,

I have to defend Giu here. Please don't take his comments personal. I think it was a very, VERY valid post. Each of us that embarks on this lifestyle with kids should be able to answer it - in his/her own words. Otherwise, how can you take your kids?

Let's face it folks (parents): THis is not like taking off a year to go explore Europe by land where the biggest danger you have is not finding a nice hotel to stay at (sarcastic). This is serious. We all search out other children-boats, but in general, they are rare. Everyone should know that up front. Don't believe me? Go to your local marina and look at Cruise-capable boats and see how many of them are owned by people with children (young children at that). Now, take that number and reduce it 99%, because that is the number of people that actually have the desire and the funds to walk away from the life we have been presented as "normal". After you do that little exercise, you may have trouble even finding ONE sailboat/trawler in any marina in your area.

And let's not forget: It has some level of danger - more so than living in the suburbs or driving around a RV or going on a European Tour. SOme of the factors contributing to the danger are within your control. Some are not. We should discuss this too, and how to minimize those dangers.

REALITY! THis is REALITY, not a picture-book magazine article.

And speaking of reality, I would like to try and make a promise to those that read this thread and the following article(s): IT WILL BE REALITY. I will try and keep it realistic - both the goods and the bads. THere are a lot of bads, too. It is not all sunsets and margaritas. There is nothing you are going to read that will truly prepare you for life aboard with kids, but the perception that many parents may have (going into this) that it is a giant vacation WILL NOT BE CRUISING FOR LONG. Most likely your boat will be sitting for sale on some distant island while you and your family rent an apartment back in your country of origin - demoralized, angry, and broke.

REALITY. EDUCATIONAL. FUN. That is what I want this thread to be... and the article to follow. Help me make it possible. Pretend your kids are reading this. Mine may.

Thanks for the continued thoughts.

- CD


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

CD-

That's a very good point...anyone who thinks that long-term cruising is a vacation of sorts is in for a real rude awakening. Long-distance cruising requires that you do at least as much normal maintenance work on your boat as keeping it in a marina and daysailing it—probably twice as much maintenance... and often without good access to spare parts and supplies.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

CD - very interesting thread. My fiancee and I are expecting our first child in 5 months and are discussing a 6 month cruise in about two years. Looking forward to learning from the experiences of everyone else who has done it.

Can I also say, with all due respect to the posters here, that in the short time I have been a member of this invaluable source of sailing knowledge and experience, this is not the first time a new member has incurred the wrath of the SailNet oligarchy. Let me explain...

While I agree with Giu's opinion in principle, I think we can reasonably agree that it was phrased in a way which could be understandably antagonistic to anyone engaged in long-term cruising with children. So it is no surprise that it elicited the pithy, acerbic response it did from svrenovatio. But svrenovatio is as entitled to his response as Giu was to the original posit. Is it necessary to "caution" him because his opinion contravenes that of a member of the ruling party? And to do so in such an incredibly condescending and pedantic way?

While there is a lot that I learn from the people on this board - and like I said, I'm looking forward in particular to this section that CD is spearheading - I have more than once considered deleting the bookmark to this site because of the closed-minded responses to newbies who dare disagree with those who have invested thousands of posts into SailNet. A little patience and forbearance might go a long way to ensuring that SailNet has a fresh and growing membership base for years to come.


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## knotaloud (Jul 6, 2007)

Hyperion,

I've sort of gotten the same vibe from a few post, but in this case, the condescending tone was justified. I've been that gypsy kid, and Giu is right, it's cruel. My parents used to be like svrenatio, and would get very defensive, fortunately they've changed and we are no longer gitanos. Everyone is allowed to have their opinion, but if they're wrong, then you gotta call 'em on it...


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Hyperion,

Well, this is the 4th time I have written this as my connection to the internet keeps cutting out (an issue on my end, not sailnet). Anyways, in general what I wrote (smile) was that I want don't want to irritate anyone - just trying to keep it all civil. THat is it. I also hope svrenovatio will participate in this thread with thoughts on things that have worked for them.

I am not trying to stop anyone on either side from posting. That is what it is all about, right?? (smile).

- CD


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Cruisingdad said:


> Hyperion,
> 
> Well, this is the 4th time I have written this as my connection to the internet keeps cutting out (an issue on my end, not sailnet). Anyways, in general what I wrote (smile) was that I want don't want to irritate anyone - just trying to keep it all civil. THat is it. I also hope svrenovatio will participate in this thread with thoughts on things that have worked for them.
> 
> ...


Exactly. And differing opinions are healthy and constructive.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

knotaloud said:


> Hyperion,
> 
> I've sort of gotten the same vibe from a few post, but in this case, the condescending tone was justified. I've been that gypsy kid, and Giu is right, it's cruel. My parents used to be like svrenatio, and would get very defensive, fortunately they've changed and we are no longer gitanos. Everyone is allowed to have their opinion, but if they're wrong, then you gotta call 'em on it...


I can't speak to your particular experience, K., but can you tell those of us contemplating subjecting our children to the cruising lifestyle whether you feel more deprived or privileged for having spent part of your childhood aboard a boat? What was your situation? Did you move around much? See any shoreside schooling? Have a "bunk of one's own"?

I think most parents think they are giving their kids a real opportunity for growth through travel. Others dislike certain aspects of the societies in which they live, and wish to educate their kids by contrasts, or by just removing them from certain influences. Of course, other parents could see their children as mere accessories to their fabulous Margaritaville Forever plans, but for the sake of argument, let's discount those parents as the selfish bastards they are.

I would very much appreciate your perspective on this, as we want to go precisely because of our son's age, and because we think if we don't go soon, some charming island nations will be wave-chewed coral heads.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I am a "newbie" and have 2 children, ages 6 and 9. Our goal is to purchase a live aboard Cat in the next year and start cruising. We already homeschool so this is not an issue. Would love to hear advise, stories, lies, warnings that you might share with a life long dreamer wanting to make it happen.

Thanks all!


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## GySgt (Jun 11, 2007)

Very cool thread. I too would like to spend about 6 months out with my family in about 2 years. So if your book had some home school info in it that would be cool. Even the conflict makes for some healthy topics with the proper respect given


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## knotaloud (Jul 6, 2007)

Valiente said:


> I can't speak to your particular experience, K., but can you tell those of us contemplating subjecting our children to the cruising lifestyle whether you feel more deprived or privileged for having spent part of your childhood aboard a boat? What was your situation? Did you move around much? See any shoreside schooling? Have a "bunk of one's own"?
> 
> I think most parents think they are giving their kids a real opportunity for growth through travel. Others dislike certain aspects of the societies in which they live, and wish to educate their kids by contrasts, or by just removing them from certain influences. Of course, other parents could see their children as mere accessories to their fabulous Margaritaville Forever plans, but for the sake of argument, let's discount those parents as the selfish bastards they are.
> 
> I would very much appreciate your perspective on this, as we want to go precisely because of our son's age, and because we think if we don't go soon, some charming island nations will be wave-chewed coral heads.


First off, my parents were never cruel, although it's a good word, it doesn't really fit my situation as much as I'd like.

I was born in Barcelona, and went directly from the hospital to a brand new Taswell 49. The first 5 years we traveled extensively throughout the Med, the southern coast of France, northwest Italy, Corsica, etc. I don't remember a whole lot. I was 5 when my brother was born in France. When he was about one and from the time I was 6 until I was 12, we sailed to nearly every place on earth; From Australia, to Africa, from Cape Horn to Cape Hope. Sometimes we would spend a few months in port so my father could fly home and "make some more money", but generally we kept moving. About 5 years ago the Taswell got rolled in storm and was a total loss. We then spent 6 months in Spain, in a really great hotel, (odd how that hotel left such a lasting memory) while our new boat, a Bavaria 50 was being completed. Which is nicer, and a lot faster, but I lost my private aft cabin, which had been my bedroom for 12 years, to a quarter birth, 3" from my brother. At 14 we docked in Sitka Alaska, and except for a trip to Hawaii, we almost called it home. After 18 months, we moved to Seattle and have not cruised anywhere for almost a year. Next month my parents and brother are heading to Mexico, with the hope of being back by Christmas (but I really doubt it). I am flying to San Diego in September for the trip down the coast, but my duration is open ended.

Good, bad or indifferent? I love sailing, I sail everyday on a little Santana 2023r (which also now serves as my bedroom). I am fluent in three languages and can communicate in dozens. I've read just about every book ever written (or so it seems), I can fix anything. I've dove to 500 ft. I've swam with whales and dolphins and turtles.

But.....I've never been in a classroom, I've never had a real teacher (sorry mom), I've never participated in team sports, (although I'm good at them), and until recently, I'd never had a girl friend, nor a best friend, nor dog. I have all three now,

Am I a better person because of cruising? I don't think so, I still get afraid in traffic, I can't sit through a movie, I hate television, I won't eat frozen food and most of my friends, think I'm odd.

My little brother just turned 12, he is still forced to live the life of a gitano (gypsy), but I have been released, and the option is mine. My brother doesn't want to go on the next adventure, he wants to stay in Seattle with me and his friends; but the choice is not his, nor is it mine. Is that cruel? Maybe. Should I quite my job, leave my girlfriend and join my family on the next adventure, so my brother has a friend? Maybe.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Knotaloud,

That is a truly fascinating account of your life, and an interesting, almost unique perspective that you share. It's funny in a way, becuase I imagine most folks reading your post are envious of your vast life experience at such a young age - I know I am. For my part, I didn't have any chance to sail until I was in college, when I had the opportunity to crew aboard a sloop in the Med during summer breaks. From that point forward for many years I would give up most of the things you missed out on -- girlfriends, movies, TV (no loss - never watched anyway), etc -- for any opportunity to sail and cruise. I guess the grass is always greener.

But from a broader perspective, I'm not sure your experience is exactly germaine to the typical family considering a sailing sabbatical. Most folks are hoping to get away for six months or a year or two, temporarily - not permanently - pulling their kids out of school and land-based society. I think the key difference is the balance -- not choosing one way to the complete exclusion of another for the entire duration of childhood. I am not faulting your parents -- their choice is their prerogative -- merely emphasizing the difference between how you grew up and the typical family sailing sabbatical.

Mr. Giu raised some valid points about best ages to cruise. But so much depends on the temperment of the kids involved that it's difficult to generalize. By his own account, his summer sailing vacations will in the aggregate surpass the duration of most sailing sabbaticals (assuming he takes those vacations for years on end). Very few North Americans have these kind of extended holidays available to them (educators the only ready exception). So for those of us on this side of the atlantic, a sabbatical is the only option if we want to go out for an extended sojourn on our boats. That's an important cultural difference.

As far as suggestions for CruisingDad's article, my only comment is to avoid being dogmatic. I can't begin to count the number of times I've read how you "have to have this" or "must have that" for the kids. In most such instances, we have sailed happily with our kids for more than a decade (admittedly coastal vacationing - not long term cruising) without the recommended gadget (most often the motorized inflatable dinghy). What works well for some families doesn't necessarily translate for others. Just like on land.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Knotaloud,

A very good read. I have heard both sides. Here is a question to ponder: Would your life be better now had you NOT sailed that boat and taken the traditional life of a child on land?

Yes?

Are you sure?

Once again, whether from a boat or from a house in the burbs... life is still life. Raising children is still raising children. It will not get easier because you toss off the dock lines. In fact, you have now compressed it to 40 feet or so. It may very well get harder.

Thank you for taking the time, Knotaloud. I appreciate your input, very much.

- CD

PS Taswell 49? I know that boat fairly well. Was it designed by a gent name Hugh K****? Not the original designer. I mean, who laid it out for you? I know he did a number of the T-49's, and oversaw their construction in Taiwan. You run across him?

PSS I read back through this and it sounds "negative". You cannot inflect tone in an email, so please take everything above as positive... not questioning, but curious. Thanks.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Knotaloud...well said and from a perspective we don't often get here! 
Not to hijack this thread...but would be interested in the tale of your T49 getting rolled if you want to do another thread. Those are great boats and it must have been a monster storm.


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## knotaloud (Jul 6, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> Knotaloud...well said and from a perspective we don't often get here!
> Not to hijack this thread...but would be interested in the tale of your T49 getting rolled if you want to do another thread. Those are great boats and it must have been a monster storm.


Obviously it's long story, but I'm sitting in an air conditioned coffee shop and it's too hot outside (98 degrees) to do anything else, so here's the condensed version:

About 200 miles out from the Galician coast, winds reached 75knots and the average waves were 30-40ft, not all that bad, really, but we got toppled when a BIG one broke right into the reefed main and storm sail, knocking us down. My dad and I were in the cockpit, he went in the water but made it back in before the next wave. My mom and brother were in the forward stateroom and got banged around pretty good. We had been knocked down once before a few years ago, and she righted with in minutes. But this time, she laid there thrashing around like no buddy's business. My dad and I began cutting every line we could get our hands on, hoping to dump the sails; we thought we had it, when another wave lifted us up and dumped us down the back side. We literally free fell about 50 feet, upside down. It felt like the entire boat exploded when it hit. My dad was trapped in the cockpit, my mom and bother where down below and I was somewhere underwater. Then just as fast as we got dumped, we where picked back up by another wave, and rolled completely back upright. A full 360.

The mast was broken and had torn a huge hole in the cabin and the jagged end was shoved through the side. My dad went below, sent out the distresses while I dug around for the tool boxes to start cutting stuff loose. We had lost the bolt cutters, and end ended up having to use hack saws. It took us two hours to get the rig cut loose and dislodged, while the hole time we were tossed around, and I mean seriously tossed around. The batteries still worked, so we were able to pump out the water and stuff blankets and pillow in all of the new holes. The engine wouldn't stay running over an idle, and every time we slipped it into gear it would die. Mom suggested we go into the life raft, but dad kept saying "not yet", "give us a little more time". Fortunately, at 12, I considered my self an expert mechanic, lol, and I was able to remove all the water contaminated fuel by draining and cleaning the bowl about 20 times: crank engine, drain water, repeat.....although every time I tell that story, my dad shakes his head, laughs, and says, "that's not how it happened" like I'm remembering it different than it really was, but I don't think so. I'm a hero, ******** it.

Anyway, just as we got things somewhat under control and we had devised a plan to surf/motor back to port, a ship contacted us and said they were within 15 miles. We all agreed that we didn't want to leave the boat, and sent the ship away. We made it back. The boat was a total loss and we all had at least one broken bone, but hey.....we survived.

Sorry for the thread hijacking....


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

You ought to flesh that out and submit it as a magazine article. Betcha latsandatts would publish and send you some bucks! Thanks...good tale.


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## knotaloud (Jul 6, 2007)

Hey thanks, you know I've told that story 1000 times, but this is the first time I've actually written about it. Hopefully this will give CruisingDad and others thinking about taking kids on extended journey's, something to ponder. I know after our ordeal, there was some discussion amongst our relatives (my grandmother mostly) regarding our safety and wellbeing.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Knot... my own view is to never take teenagers out cruising because it is unfiar to their personal developement (peers, sports, techniical schooling, girl/boyfriends) and never cross oceans with kids of any kind since the risks go up dramatically when you can't avoid bad weather or duck into port. If adults want to cross oceans...that is just fine, but to make that choice for thier kids concerns mel 
Others make the point that you are less likely to die at sea than getting hit by a car or driving drunk etc. 
How do YOU feel about your 'rents going off to sea again with your brother in tow? Do you fear for his safety if you are not there?


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Knotaloud,
That, my friend, is one incredible story. I would urge you to take Cam's suggestion and submit it to a good mag for publication. Better still, post your story here on Sailnet so we don't have to wait around for some jackass editor to get around to publishing it. You're a fine writer to boot.


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## knotaloud (Jul 6, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> How do YOU feel about your 'rents going off to sea again with your brother in tow? Do you fear for his safety if you are not there?


I'm really bummed that my brother won't be around, we are very close; so close, that I'm seriously considering going along. But with or without me, I do not have any fear for his safety. My parents are overly cautious, and he's very capable, Heck, he could pretty much do all the sailing and navigating by himself.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Knot,

A very interesting read. I will try and reply back as I can.

- CD


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

CD,
You have set quite the task for yourself. As this thread shows, there are a variety of views on the subject. Sorting them out and presenting them in a cogent way is quite a challenge. I wish you well, it is a worthwhile endeavor.

Some random thoughts from a de-clutched mind:

It is quite interesting that so many seem to know what is "just right" for their kids at certain ages. I am an equal opportunity offender here. I cannot see how the decision to go cruising or not can be made by anyone except the parents (not the kids) and be made in any other way other than "hopefully". For all of the "authorities" wisdom on the science of child-rearing we cannot claim to be any more enlightened than we were in 1956, or 1856 for that matter, or even have a better grasp than what the high Arctic Eskimo does intuitively. Statements of what is "normal" range from completely opposing views on divorce and it's effects upon the children, to what constitutes a family. Me? Heck, I don't know. I'm just trying to muddle my way through. too.

It strikes me that the most important socialization that takes place is within the nuclear family. I think the peer socialization od adolescence is greatly over-rated. It is a five year period where children socialize almost exclusively with their peers; something they have never done before and will abandon again somewhere north of eighteen. A continuing source of wonderment to most is how aging shrinks the difference in years between people. The case can be made that this generational bias should be combatted initially rather than considered a normal part of development or, to use the dreaded word, a "phase".

Life at sea. Ever notice how we become most angry and demostrative with our family, versus those outside the family? We can get away with it because we perceive that they "have to" love us. Life at sea does not work this way. The first intuitive lesson learned aboard ship is that you cannot burn the ship down to make your point. Conflicts are best avoided versus mediated. Learning to avoid conflict is literally forced upon the offshore seaman. To not do so is to have it all end in madness. The "normal" shoreside give and take between people must be tempered with the knowledge that you cannot escape contact with the other person at sea and so, be wary of venturing down paths that may estrange. Amazingly enough, this ability to forgo battles not worth fighting comes in handy in later years on shore as well.

Going to sea can be a bit of living on the edge. In a world of bicycle helmets and body padding for every activity, swimming in a thousand fathoms of water has a novel riskyness to it by comparison. Deprivations can become character builders. Read knotaloud's post again.

Most work an entire life to be able to go "do something" in retirement. This is completely bassackwards. By the age of 21 Alexander had conquered most of the known world. His middle school experiences have been lost to history. Rather than waiting for a hopeful retirement, the goal should be to do and see as much as possible, and then spend the rest of your life talking about it. Ironically, we spend millions-no billions of dollars on musuems, aquariums, aviaries, and parks to expose our kids to what they might see if they travelled the world. If one had the wherewithal would one consider spending 18 years within the limits of Terre Haute, Indiana to the exclusion of the rest of the world? And Terre Haute can substitute for NYC easily. NYC is just as parochial, in it's way, as Indiana. Gazing at the sea turtles through the glass in Camden's aquarium kind of pales when you have swam with them in the south Pacific, no?

Remembering back to my young adulthood at sea, I recall having missed a lot of what my fellow college students experienced. While they were at the Michigan-Michigan State game, I was in Hong Kong. And, mysteriously to them, there were no regrets then or now. The fifteen year old who is "stuck" in Hong Kong may not know how good he's got it, any more than he knows his trigonometry. I'll depart from the objective viewpoint here to offer an opinion. This giving kids their head, allowing them to find themselves, is vastly over-rated. They have no more roadmap to maturity and happiness than Alexander did. They wander about in a fog, seeking meaning to their lives. A structure promoting the natural assumption of responsibility, offering a realm of experiences and wonders to assimilate, while deferring the sexual pressures of adolescence, is too often not constructed by parents whose job it is to make their children ready for adulthood. I suspect we are all limited by our own notions of what that structure might be.

I know this sounds like I am coming down four square for shang-haiing the kids to sea, but that is not the case. So much depends on the individual and several parents, and their family structure. I really do not think that blanket statements of right or wrong, desirable or undesirable, can be made without reference to them can be made. I do know that I'd rather tip a glass with knotaloud than my local insurance salesman. And I expect, as the years go on, knotalot will come to relish his past experiences more than he does now. It does seem to be a part of the human condition to focus on what was not provided, what we didn't get to do. The knowledge that such thoughts are unique in their own way to each of us comes later in life when a fuller appreciation for life itself manifests itself. Or, as mama used to say, "youth is wasted on the young".


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## leffklm (Apr 9, 2007)

Sailaway,

Beautifully said.

Regards,

Leff


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

I agree Sailaway, a nice reply.


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## knotaloud (Jul 6, 2007)

Sailaway,

Have you been talking to my father?

lol


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Knotaloud,

It's entirely possible. (a vbg)


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Well... I cannot match the pristine prose of SAway...and I do agree with much of what he has said...BUT...
I maintain my opposition to taking teens sailing for the following reasons:

1. Academics...most parents cannot provide a rich educational environment at the high school or ADVANCED high school levels. Advanced math, physics, Chem, PC programming, etc. ...let alone the easy stuff like English grammer (sp! lol), history, foreign languages. A teen taken sailing will most always be academically disadvantaged, less prepared to do well on the SAT's and less likely to get into as good a college as he/she might otherwise do in a good school on land. 

2. I believe that peer relationships in terms of bonding, dealing with rejection, coming to terms with romance/sex etc. are quite important during these years and would not lump them into "hanging out at the mall". Furthermore the ability to take part in group activities such as sports, plays, dance, scouting etc. where one learns to work hard to hone a talent or reach a goal and work as a team member are also quite important. I would not trade MY memories of that period for any amount of time on the water, I believe they made a BIG difference to my future and I don't think parents should impose their dreams on kids in this age group as there is too much at stake. 

Take 'em when they're young or wait till they're out of high school. Nothing wrong with letting college wait and taking a couple of years off to go cruising after high school or joining the boat on summmer vacations. 

I know others will differ but wanted to make my reasoning clear.


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Cam,
This is why I feel like I'm in a race with the calendar. By the time high school rolls around in six or seven years, I'm either landside or hunted by a flotilla of horny acne-faced boys. It would ruin the experience for all involved.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Camaraderie's inaccurate claims of modest prosaic skills in no way detract from his points. As usual, his arguments are lucid and well thought out. I am struck by his tone, one noticably absent should you question him say on the merits of celestial navigation versus a bag of GPS's. The man is treading gently in a sensitive field. Probably a wise course to steer on a topic likely to raise strong opinions. I reserve the right to be nasty, brutish, and short with him on other topics.

Regarding his points, I must first point out that where some, and I may not even include myself in their camp, will disagree with him is in the philosophical underpinnings of his arguments. If the the classical definition of the goal of the university is still to produce a "citizen of the world" one could question how many schools still perform that function in deference to vocational education. If, one's goal is to have reared a classically educated young person the case can be made that parents are the equal to any grammar school. Countless homeschoolers stand in testimony to this and the college entrance stats back them up. But then a classic education has become an unusual goal in the modern academe. The aspiring cruiser is probably more likely to reject the vo-tech approach to grammar and collegiate curriculia as well. Many high school teachers, as well as the graduate assistants teaching college level courses, are only a few lessons ahead of the students they are teaching. I would offer that, with the properly motivated parents, a quite well rounded, if not comprehensive, education could be acquired at sea. I also suspect that the youth who has spent his days in far flung lands will have a much greater ability at foreign languages than one spending four years sitting in French class.

I must arrest myself. It is not truly my purpose to answer each of Cam's points but, rather, to point out that the couple serious about cruising with their children may find the underlying goals of shoreside education deficient in and of themselves as compared to the ad hoc motto of the USMMA, "the world is our campus". This I believe is in the realm of philosophy and cannot be ascribed as being right or wrong, only individualistic.

I believe Cam's second point can all be accomplished afloat as well, particularly the team work aspects. I don't accept the premise that the parents would be "imposing" their dreams on their child any more than those parents are imposing their dreams on the daughter they enroll in dance class at age four. The older kids dreams are just that, and they change seemingly with the phase of the moon. Most of us do not achieve our teenage dreams. It is not for lack of opportunity, or the trying, it is that our dreams and priorities change on their own. For the record though, I must state that I feel the US is perhaps one of the worst places to live in terms of "coming to terms with romance/ sex etc.." and that those are areas that span culture and location. In short, if I had to do sixteen over again I'd do it in Hong Kong, Singapore, or Brazil before I'd do it in Michigan. But now I'm returning to philosophy and value judgements again.

Mind you, the end result of my argument is probably going to be that the kid is going to graduate from college and decide he/she wants to go cruising some more, with mom and dad's boat, sans mom and dad.(g)

This is a topic of enormous interest to me. Or should I say the debate of it is. I am far from convinced that I am even remotely correct in any way, but my imagination is sure fired by the ideas expressed.

Thankyou to all. Please continue.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

svrenovatio said:


> Hey Giuli, take your "cruelty" comment and shove it up you a**
> 
> I did not achieve what I have in life listening to people like him make thoughtless statements like this. Hell, some of what he says I agree with but to call what some choose to do that is VERY thought out and planed CRUEL does reach ass**** status in my book.


Looks like you did miss in achieving good manners....a torturous path, good manners indeed...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*I see you've met my boy.*



knotaloud said:


> First off, my parents were never cruel, although it's a good word, it doesn't really fit my situation as much as I'd like.
> 
> I was born in Barcelona, and went directly from the hospital to a brand new Taswell 49. The first 5 years we traveled extensively throughout the Med, the southern coast of France, northwest Italy, Corsica, etc. I don't remember a whole lot. I was 5 when my brother was born in France. When he was about one and from the time I was 6 until I was 12, we sailed to nearly every place on earth; From Australia, to Africa, from Cape Horn to Cape Hope. Sometimes we would spend a few months in port so my father could fly home and "make some more money", but generally we kept moving. About 5 years ago the Taswell got rolled in storm and was a total loss. We then spent 6 months in Spain, in a really great hotel, (odd how that hotel left such a lasting memory) while our new boat, a Bavaria 50 was being completed. Which is nicer, and a lot faster, but I lost my private aft cabin, which had been my bedroom for 12 years, to a quarter birth, 3" from my brother. At 14 we docked in Sitka Alaska, and except for a trip to Hawaii, we almost called it home. After 18 months, we moved to Seattle and have not cruised anywhere for almost a year. Next month my parents and brother are heading to Mexico, with the hope of being back by Christmas (but I really doubt it). I am flying to San Diego in September for the trip down the coast, but my duration is open ended.
> 
> ...


My son Antonio, (aka Knotaloud) also known as AJ, was discussing Sailnet at dinner this evening; he seems to be enjoying this forum, which surprises me very little. I've read through most of his comments, and I really chuckled at a few, but this topic, Cruising with Children, hit a nerve. It seems not everyone here (including AJ) fully appreciates the choices my wife and I have made. Well believe me, you're not the first. I've been justifying my lifestyle for the past 20 years and I've heard it all.

My family will attest that our lives are blessed, we have everything we need, and everything we could ever ask for. We are healthy and we are happy. The boys are intelligent, witty, courageous and caring. They treat their mother with respect and they challenge my authority, as they should. I am so proud of them both and I value their input in every decision we make.

We are about to set off on another voyage and my youngest, Florian, is a bit apprehensive. His concerns are valid, and he's asked to not go, but we have decided he must come along, as this may well be our last opportunity, since the boys are nearly grown. AJ has said he's not planning to stay with us the entire time, and that's okay, but Florian is just 12, he loves to sail and like his older brother, he was born for the sea.

At the same age, Antonio was forced to reach deep down inside and find the strength to help save his family from certain demise; and he found it and he saved us. I read his previous posting about the Atrevit disaster, and he left out a few things; like the broken jaw, the broken wrist and the broken clavicle he sustained while being slammed against the diesel, as the boat repeatedly dropped and crashed from 20, 30 and 40 feet. He never said a word, until the engine was running and then he adamantly refused to leave the boat until we got her home. Maybe all boys, when given the opportunity will rise to the occasion, but I truly believe his life at sea has given him an unparalleled will to succeed. Now I certainly do not want Florian to be put in that position, but I know in my heart, he would be capable. Can you say the same about your child?

Knotalouds dad


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

PG13...Well Antonio seems to have turned out just fine! Nice job!!


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

PG13 said:


> Can you say the same about your child?
> 
> Knotalouds dad


Dad...

Yes I can, as a matter of fact..... and I don't drag my kids around the World in a boat, while fullfiling my dreams.

But again, it is your choice, your life your family, and, you not us, know what is best for them (and apparentely have it all figured out)...who are we to say the contrary?? We're just venting our opinions, not criticizing you.

I'd love to see some photos of your adventures in Europe, and Atrevit, please post some, will you??

Boa Viagem, e bons ventos...


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

THis has been a very good thread and I will be getting started very soon. If there are any last thoughts, please let me know. It appears there are people that frequent here with much more kid-cruising experience than me, and many with less.

I will do the best I can with this info and make it fun and informative!

Let me know soon if there are any more thoughts.

- CD


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

"I think I really have to say something its bugging me for a while, (sorry guys) I think it is absolutely cruelty to go out and sail for years in a row with a kid of 4, 5 6 or 7 years old, or even 2 or three. I see sometimes the people that go around the world with a young kid onbord, as they stop here, it makes me so sad...sorry...I can't understand how can those parents be so selfish to the point of sacrificing the childhood of their kids, just to satisfy their personal selfish whims of freedom and World curiosity....the kids grow up to be starngers to the things of life...good made man and girls, but I don't know....

I see the kids....the ones in the crusing boats that stop here...they look like sad kids to me, Have'nt seen one that "looks normal" or happy. Sometimes my son Fred goes out and tries to play with them at the marina...THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY, PEOPLE!!!!! Its not one or two or three, its at least 4 boats a month that stop here....the kids look like strangers, they lack contact with other kids..its so sad. Please note I know the contact with Mum and dad all day long is important, BUT ITS NOT BALANCED, no matter how you try...its not enough, we are not humans to be brought up like that....

Those years are so important for the making and building of the life character and personality of a child, the comunication with other kids their age, the human interaction besides the Mum and Dad. I know the mum and Dad being there is important, but the Grandma, the school plays, the soccer team, the little play friend, the movies, Barney....the other things that are not available to the kid because the parents decided to go around the world...( I am not talking about those that live on a boat, but in one place and kids get to go to school like it is normal...I'm talking about the sea gypsies....

I don't know, no matter how much I like sailing, I would never impose living on a boat and sail around (unless I had no other option) to my kids, that would be presuming on a friendship...I don't do that...my kids are worth more than my desires to sail to Madagascar....

Want to cruise around the world with kids?? do it during the school holidays, send the kids to school as its normal, let them live their life, give them that chance...sometimes I am away from my kids, maybe I cherish them more because of that then the dad that sees his kids every day...maybe....

Want to cruise all in one go??? GO ALONE...OR DON'T HAVE KIDS!!!!!

Its cruel.....very cruel..."

I don't need manner lessons from you GUI. I always had heard it was the "ugly American" who spoke without and before thinking. Your thoughtless blanket statement was arrogant to say the least. It's may be how you feel and I'll defend your rights to share it. My response was how I felt at the time I read your comments. I had responded in a civil and thought out manner until my son, who as a matter of fact will have a CRUEL 3 or 4 year experience starting next year due to my selfish nature, hit delete by mistake. 

To each his own.

Sorry if I offended anyone. I'm not religious or Christian but I was totally offended by many on this board who responded to the "share the word" thread that was offered a few weeks ago....


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

svrenovatio said:


> I don't need manner lessons from you GUI. I always had heard it was the "ugly American" who spoke without and before thinking. Your thoughtless blanket statement was arrogant to say the least. It's may be how you feel and I'll defend your rights to share it. My response was how I felt at the time I read your comments. I had responded in a civil and thought out manner until my son, who as a matter of fact will have a CRUEL 3 or 4 year experience starting next year due to my selfish nature, hit delete by mistake.
> 
> To each his own.
> 
> Sorry if I offended anyone. I'm not religious or Christian but I was totally offended by many on this board who responded to the "share the word" thread that was offered a few weeks ago....


Svrenovatio,

I will NOT go into a pissing contest with you, so this will be my last post regarding your posts. Just because I think this is going no where, and seems to be wasting a perfectly good thread.

1) When I posted my thoughts (as I have done elsewhere here on many occasions, mixed with my technical contributions all over, also, and some photoshoping), about the subject in cause, they were just my thoughts, I did not ask *you* or *anyone* else here to like them or dislike them, approve or dis-aprove. If you dont't approve, say so, but don't tell me to shove them up my ass, that is unpolite, I don't know you, and you don't know me, I would not relpy to you that way. I would probably joke with you or maybe a little photoshop, but harsh words, no. Besides, my son and other sons visit here, and my son, really appreciates reading about people telling his dad to shove things up his ass. Would your son like that??

You do not know my ass to tell me to stick things in it....I have posted quite a lot of my persona, but my ass will remain private, and not a subject to bring into public contact.

If we all did that, and replied to each other in the same manner, this site would be dead, the moderator would need a full time job here, and that would not make the site nice for those few hundreds that visit evry day.

2) I did not give you any manner lessons, (I have enough with giving them to my kids), I simply said you had none, which is different, apparentely I was not wrong, since you insist on it. Off course since I do not know you, its what you write and how you do it that allows me to withdraw that conclusion.

3) I have never ever here called anyone "ugly American", for the record, you said that. I don't want bad interpretations here, I like Americans and am in fact friends with many, including Sailingdog.
I do not offend people on their race, nationality religion, sports club or credo. I do offend (only joking off course) with humiliating photoshop, certain people here, BUT only do that to those I like and those I have enough ease to do it. So if someone is not photoshopped, its clear I either don't like them, they do not deserve the time, I am not at ease with them, or I simply am not in the mood.

4) Living in a free country and doing what I want is given for me, therefore, expressing my thought here or elsewhere is a right I use to the fullest, you have the same rights, but your rights treminate where mine are touched, this to say you had no right to tell me to shove things in my loved ass.

5) If you had responded in a civil manner and somehow that was deleted, all you had to do was explain, edit your post or even (remotely in my mind) appologise for your strong answer, when others here thought and told you you were coming too strong.

6) If you were hurt offended or otherwise ill trated in another thread, the solution is not to come on another thread and vent on people that have nothing to do with it, I didn't even post in that thread, so go take it on someone else, or at least have the guts and decency to got there and defend your self, and stand for what you believe. Turning around and going to another thread and hit inocent people is not your best solution.

7) I don't really mind if you don't like me, my ideas, my boat or what I have done in my life, many don't, I don't really care I will sleep tonight the same way I slept yesterday. Maybe better since I told you what was in my heart today.

Finally, I really think you were rude, a right you have, but don't expect me to photoshop you any time soon  

Have a nice trip and carry on with your plan, and if you ever visit Portugal, please let me know.

Alex


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

svrenovatio said:


> I don't need manner lessons from you GUI. I always had heard it was the "ugly American" who spoke without and before thinking. Your thoughtless blanket statement was arrogant to say the least. It's may be how you feel and I'll defend your rights to share it. My response was how I felt at the time I read your comments. I had responded in a civil and thought out manner until my son, who as a matter of fact will have a CRUEL 3 or 4 year experience starting next year due to my selfish nature, hit delete by mistake.
> 
> To each his own.
> 
> Sorry if I offended anyone. I'm not religious or Christian but I was totally offended by many on this board who responded to the "share the word" thread that was offered a few weeks ago....


Everybody is entitled to give their opinion, G simply did just that.

I don't believe his comments were directed directly at you, just to the thread in general.

Why would this make you so angry?

When I get angry, I have to step back and take a good look at the situation. I find like all things in life, that there are two sides to every argument and both sides of the issues need to be examined.

When I do that, I find I learn a lot about myself.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

svrenovatio said:


> I don't need manner lessons from you GUI. I always had heard it was the "ugly American" who spoke without and before thinking. Your thoughtless blanket statement was arrogant to say the least. It's may be how you feel and I'll defend your rights to share it. My response was how I felt at the time I read your comments. I had responded in a civil and thought out manner until my son, who as a matter of fact will have a CRUEL 3 or 4 year experience starting next year due to my selfish nature, hit delete by mistake.
> 
> To each his own.
> 
> Sorry if I offended anyone. I'm not religious or Christian but I was totally offended by many on this board who responded to the "share the word" thread that was offered a few weeks ago....


So, what? We are not allowed to express our opinions here, on the internet of all places. I see no personal attacks in Giu's statement. We have the right to say what we feel here and give our opinions. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone either. Give your own opinion, argue it out, but coming on here and calling people names on your third post........?????????


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## knotaloud (Jul 6, 2007)

I'm beginning to see why this thread is titled "Cruising with Children". You guys all need to just grow up.....


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I'm not a children oriented person. Don't have any, never wanted any, but nevertheless very fond of my friend's and brother's kids in the main. To cruise with kids would be my idea of hell. 

I'd have to agree with Gui that there is a degree of cruelty in long term cruising with kids (and/or animals for that matter). When I think of many of my old hippy friends who headed out of town to raise their families in a less urban environment I realise that very few of them are still out there. By the time the kids got into their teens many, if not all, chose to return to urban society. None of those kids regret spending their formative years in the country but all are happy to have been able to spend their later years in town. 

Of those families who I knew who chose to head off cruising with kids the ones who appeared to do so most happily were the short termers. 

In either case I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule. What works for one family may well be a disaster for another. 

As for svrenovatio's attitude , specifically towards Gui, "what is your problem son ?" Out there in the big wild world there are many villages whose idiots have gone missing. A man of your talents would have no trouble fitting in. Nothing Gui said deserved him being told to go tickle his prostate, he merely expressed an opinion you disagreed with so please, pull your head in.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I'd say it depends on the maturity of the parents. If the parents are intelligent, well-educated, and have the resources, I say, "Go for it!" If done properly, it can be an enriching experience for a child. It is a positive thing for children to be immersed in other cultures- this is one of the things that will make your child a well-rounded adult. However, this requires a lot of planning, as you will also need to take education and your child's psychological well-being into account.

On the other hand, if your priority is "taking your well-deserved retirement trip around the world" and "the kids can get home-schooled with books- they have programs...", then, you might want to rethink your course of action. If you can not give your children a better education than a land-based school (how will you explain Calculus to your child if you can't even fathom basic algebra?), then this might not be a good plan. You always have the option of taking your child on the trip when they are younger, during summer vacation, or by their own choice when they have completed their education.

Perhaps I will get a severe brow-beating for this, but, when you have children, THEY become your #1 priority. The key here is how you raise them, whether that be at sea or on land.

This is just my humble opinion, of course.

Chris 
US 30' Wu-Wei
DIY Sailor, US Yachts owners group


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Hmm... I guess you're the ugly American, since Giu was merely stating his opinion. I don't see anything in his post that was directed specifically at you, and if you're vain enough to think that it was directed towards you, you need to stop using your stomach window.

If you were an intelligent and rational person, you would have re-written and posted the civil and thought out reply, but apparently, your child has made that unusual occurrence impossible for you to repeat.



You also might want to consider that Giu is not a native English speaker, and as such may not be as clear in expressing himself as he would if he were writing in his native language. 


svrenovatio said:


> I don't need manner lessons from you GUI. I always had heard it was the "ugly American" who spoke without and before thinking. Your thoughtless blanket statement was arrogant to say the least. It's may be how you feel and I'll defend your rights to share it. My response was how I felt at the time I read your comments. I had responded in a civil and thought out manner until my son, who as a matter of fact will have a CRUEL 3 or 4 year experience starting next year due to my selfish nature, hit delete by mistake.
> 
> To each his own.
> 
> Sorry if I offended anyone. I'm not religious or Christian but I was totally offended by many on this board who responded to the "share the word" thread that was offered a few weeks ago....


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Me too, I sometimes cruise with children, not mine though That's what the aft cabin of a Hardin is for::::))))))



hehehe


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Svrenovatio,
How could you possibly be offended by someone -- a father and experienced sailor in this case -- who expresses his concern for children who find themselves on long-distance passages on cruises that last many months and often many years? You're confusing honest and informed dissent with arrogance.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Ian-

Robbing the cradle again?? She looks a bit young for me...and I know I'm younger than you are...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*sailingdog: *


> Robbing the cradle again?? She looks a bit young for me...and I know I'm younger than you are...


My girlfriend's daughter, that's why I blurred the face, ooops!


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

It seems that we always end up in the slops when we start responding to specific posts versus just stating our own opinions. I did not interpret 
Giu as attacking svrenovation and thought svrenovatio's response was hot headed. I also thought renovatioa's view on the "faith sharing" thread was accurate.

At the moment i am wondering if my second post in this thread was too directed at Cam, I'll have to re-read it to be sure. I am sure that I could have just as well driven Cam away from the discussion as challenge his views. Better to not alienate someone whom I might be learning something from in the next post, by not making it personal. I've had to eat my crow on this site, and most it well due, and caused by being too personal versus dispassionately on topic.

This is a great thread idea, perhaps one of the best, and it is going to be controversial because the nature of it is inherently philosophical. And, when it comes to philosophy, men of good will can and will differ. This is probably not a topic that is going to change a lot of opinions, but perhaps it will allow us to consider the fullness of the topic in a way we have not previously.

You guys should shake hands and put this behind you both. We've got more in explanation than we do in fight. 'prolly not that bigga fight.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

if she takes after her mother, i can see why you like her mother ...


ianhlnd said:


> *sailingdog: *
> My girlfriend's daughter, that's why I blurred the face, ooops!


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

svrenovatio said:


> I don't need manner lessons from you GUI. I always had heard it was the "ugly American" who spoke without and before thinking. Your thoughtless blanket statement was arrogant to say the least. It's may be how you feel and I'll defend your rights to share it. My response was how I felt at the time I read your comments. I had responded in a civil and thought out manner until my son, who as a matter of fact will have a CRUEL 3 or 4 year experience starting next year due to my selfish nature, hit delete by mistake.
> 
> To each his own.
> 
> Sorry if I offended anyone. I'm not religious or Christian but I was totally offended by many on this board who responded to the "share the word" thread that was offered a few weeks ago....


If you're not enjoying yourself on here and take offense so easily, why bother logging on at all? If you had written a civil and thoughtful response that your son deleted by mistake, then why come back with the "shove it" statement? Your words describing your actions make no sense. I tend to look at the "value added" of what people post on here. Sometimes the value is humor, or sarcasm, pure entertainment, a personal opinion, or even sailing expertise (when all else fails!) But what have your posts added to this thread?

I have no children and have only met a few kids who were on long family cruises. Some of the kids obviously loved it, some obviously hated it.

One Canadian family I met a few years ago particularly bothered me because the father was intent on a circumnavigation and the wife kept saying that they were going to do it for 6 months and then take it from there. The two kids, 8 and 11 as I recall, just looked at me with those sad eyes Giu wrote about. My boat happened to be tied up to a bulkhead in front of their's during the Annapolis boat show several years ago. We got quite chatty during the show and this conversation happened the last night I was there -- sipping port on this 47 footer they had. I often have wondered what became of them.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Once again I've spent a great amount of time to respond with an end result of the post being lost.

In a nutshell. I've sorry for calling GUI a bad name even know I still think it was arrogant to make such a blanket statement. The rum was flowing...
My bad.

Some may think my wife & I cruel and selfish. Others don't... I don't give a damn. As stated before, we have not got to where we are today by placing much weight on comments we feel are stupid or thoughtless. ( So I guess it's CRUEL & SELFISH v STUPID & THOUGHTLESS... Just MY thoughts based on my experience) I do agree that there are those out there that might fall directly into that clasification. We know we don't. In fact, the yacht to us is mainly a place to stay while we are seeing the world for our son's and yes, OUR benefit. 

Hell no I didn't think he was attacking me personally. Just thousands of family sailors & cruisers....

I can see how much of a risk financially it may be for some.. Not for us. Please don't take this wrong but we can afford to make an attempt and if we found out it wasn't working for our son, be back in the US in or home without feeling it AT ALL and in a matter of days. And we would. He is #1 for us Dr. Spock. We are through working (in general) and feel very lucky to have had such success but Ive been around long enough to have people I've worked with and know, pass on due to accidents and illness in their 30's and 40's and I'm going to use my time to see the world and share it with my son. I pitty those who could and don't and feel sorry for those who can't.

We are in our mid 40's. We could have left years ago before my wonderful son came around. We are more excited to do it with him (4 when we leave)then alone so for those of you who world feel it a a hellish adventure to travel like that with a child or children, I feel sorry for you... really. I think those with that attitude are missing something grand...

As far as getting lost in the Jungle.... Never. I have a hot head once in a while but more likely would be one invited to stay until I wanted to leave.

Good thread...


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Personally, I think there is good and bad in both sides of this argument. What is right for the children varies from family to family. I would like to think that parents know what is best for their children, but I don't know people here personally, and we have all seen how wrong some parents can be. My personal view is that it would be alright until the kids reach around 8 or 10, then its time to start listening to their opinions. If my 8 year old said "Dad, I want to live on land" I would give it some serious thought. My parents moved me clear across the country at that age, against my wishes, and it had a huge negative impact on my life. I want to live on board a boat, my son is six. I look at him, and I look at his life now, and I think "no" it would be too disruptive. I can achieve the same affect by taking him on short cruises, showing him a different life that way. If I had a boat when he was born, then I might have moved aboard for a while. One thing I have read over and over is that teenagers, for the most part, should not be confined to life on board. Anyway, svrenovatio, glad to see you come back with a thought out response and not a full frontal assault.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

We never cruised for long periods of time, but there was a ten year stretch when my Dad took us out for the annual summer vacation on the big green ketch. Him, three of us boys and my mother. First week was usually good, but as we got older - early teens - the second week was hell for all concerned. We got restless on a boat, too much energy and nothing to do with it so we would play tricks on each other or on one of my parents which would make the other parent mad and then there'd be a mad scramble for the bow. Then there was the night we took off in the tender and it got loose and was never seen again... The night we decided to try the scotch... The day my mother almost drowned... Lots of great memories but there were a lot of arguments (between us kids) and fights and sulking.

Parents finally decided it wasn't worth it and went off alone. We stayed home, sailed our dinghies, went camping, played sports and hung out with the kids we weren't supposed to hang out with... Much happier all around.

I think it's a good thing for younger children. Not so much for older ones, but as an adult - it's Nirvana...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

On the other hand 
Not having kids on land , may not be awful for them either . I have two daughters 1 and 3 yrs and if the budget was no problem I dare say my wife and I would consider another cruising episode (we did our cruising prior to babies) and will pick it up again someday. However the thought of my girls showing up some time down the road with Mall-rat ,video-game addicted, barbiedoll wanabee , "oh isnt Justin Timberlake dreamy"friends frankly teriffies me.Plus remember the scene in Capt Ron that made Her agree to go and get the boat Aye Caramba. Dear Lord let me be at sea with my family before one of my girls comes home with a ring on her finger from Jed Clampet . Just a thought


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## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

I have read this all and seen much of it.
In my view parents may want the best for their children. When they are young this may be met by a warm environment attuned to their ages and needs. Ditto when they are older.
Part of parenting is socialisation of the children. That includes others having rights including parents.
I think the balance is in being an advocate, for lack of a better word, for both.
Many parents may lack time for their children, but that is not overcome by time with them.
I see the difference between parents lacking empathy and concern for the child and those who do.
The former may claim it but their behaviour suggests that they make the child fit in with their wants rather than adapting to the child's needs.
I doubt very much that seeing the world at a young age rubs off much. What children perhaps need then is security and affirmation giving safety and self worth attention and stimulation. When they are a little older they absorb more. In their teens they are starting to move towards independence and self determination, which is a necessary part of their development. At that point they look less to their parents but hopefully what has gone before helps.
I guess in the end what counts is has the child learned security, self worth, self confidence, and to sensitively relate to others, or subjugation, albeit in the name of "I did it for you". Whether this is cruising or working excessive hours to make $$ is irrelevant.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

SailorMitch said:


> One Canadian family I met a few years ago particularly bothered me because the father was intent on a circumnavigation and the wife kept saying that they were going to do it for 6 months and then take it from there. The two kids, 8 and 11 as I recall, just looked at me with those sad eyes Giu wrote about. My boat happened to be tied up to a bulkhead in front of their's during the Annapolis boat show several years ago. We got quite chatty during the show and this conversation happened the last night I was there -- sipping port on this 47 footer they had. I often have wondered what became of them.


If you PM me with the name of that boat, I may very well be able to find out.

My wife and I *hope* to circumnavigate, but any one of a number of factors could make that plan obselete, including 1) our son being miserable; 2) us being miserable; 3) money running short; 4) tolerence for each other running short; 5) we find some places so spectacularly beautiful that we wish to stay until the visas run dry.

Note I haven't even gotten to boat-related issues yet.

The circ. aspect of our voyaging plans provide focus, but it isn't and shouldn't be a rock-hard commitment. We don't have sponsors or fans to satisfy. We just assumed that my desire to see the western Pacific and the Indian ocean islands would naturally lead to a circumnavigation. If that happens, great...but we are open to dropping the hook in New Zealand and putting our son in school if things aren't working out.

It's the sea. You have to be flexible.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

More random thoughts from a de-clutched mind.

You cannot spend too much time with your kids. What you and your spouse are today is what kind of husband, wife, father, and mother they will be in some tomorrow. I, for one, regret virtually every personal moment I took that I could have spent with the eighteen year old. Only at this point do I realise how little time I was working with, in her case. It's not over, but it's changed. Socialization within the family is the most important skill that be imparted. Friends come and go, seemingly like the wind, family remains. It's my view that it is my job to impart skills such as how to treat a woman or a spouse, how to handle crisis, loss and, even, death. Kids look to their parents for those things. Or should they learn them in school, where they're learning about sex, and what a fine job they're doing.

Regardless of opinion on the matter at hand, i think that some type of structure is very important in the development of children. Only within structure can the imagination truly be inspired. And, those 15-18 year olds are still kids. Ask any one of 'em, what do you want to do, and you'll more often than not get a, "I dunno".

We tell our kids, "you can do or be anything you want". And then we just sit back and wait for them to choose something. They usually choose to watch TV. They don't know what they want. I didn't know. We both think and thought, we might know what we want. I think that certain things, like the Boy Scouts in addition to the family, are fantastic. They provide a structure where learning, achievement, and camaraderie are plentiful. Even though they are starting to look like adults, I see no need to rush them into it. And that means the parents provide the structure of their development. If we're not, they're getting it at the mall. I sound like, I am sure, that I am in favor of incarcerating them. while the thought has passed my mind, as it has every parent's, I am not so inclined. Relationships with the opposite sex will be there inevitably. But I think we do them no favors by allowing those to become the dominant socialization factors in their teens. Why should they be done being kids so quickly? The tension of the sexual dynamic will arrive soon enough, it's better handled at Boy Scout camp or sailing with the family, imho. Sure you take them away from their friends, is not the ability to make new friends at least as important as the companionship of current friends, if not more so? How many of us have the same friends we did in High school? But we still have the same family.

I had a great time in my teens with my friends. Today, I would sacrifice great chunks of those memories to have been able to know my parents even better, to have spent more time with them, and to have learned more form them. What I use today, is what I got from my parents, not my friends, and I wish I had more of it. I know it was there, but I had options, and I tooks 'em. (g) My parents knew better than I and, while I have no regrets, I wish I'd have been "forced" to spend a little more time out in the woods with the old man instead of whatever it was I was doing. Today those are the times I miss. I spent the next twenty years at sea, palling around with the guys and chasing women. Even today I could go back to that life. But I can never go back and be 17 years old with my mother and father again.

Does any of this make sense?


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Sailaway,

It makes sense to me. Me and my parents are very close (they even frequent this site as many of you know), and we spent a LOT of my childhood together doing things as a family - mostly backpacking. THus, I cannot imagine dong anything other than that (sailing in this instance) with my children.

You reap what you sow. Family comes first. Enjoy and appreciate those around you because the day WILL come that they are no longer there and that moment is lost.

- CD


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## kmclarke (Aug 19, 2006)

Cruising dad how is the compilation effort going? I just found this thread in the archives and I think it is Great and deserves to be resurrected. 

As some of you may know My wife and I and our two sons will be moving aboard in 37 days. Then we will cruise the Bahamas and wherever else we feel like going . we are going to do this for six months and then return to Canada to work and stock up the cruising kitty for the following winter. We chose to cruise early because we don't feel that there are any gaurantees of good health as we age. The reason for only going for six months at a time will enable us to leave earlier as well as help ALL of us keep up our friendships ashore. I for one very much appreaciate Gui's comment, not because I completly agree with it, but because it is thought provoking and it brings up a very important point.
My sons do not like sailing , they are not scared , they just don't like it. I think they are cautiously optimistic about the upcoming trip though. Probably mostly because every adult they run into tells them how great it is going to be. But the fact remains when you are a 9 or 10 year old boy all you want is the security of familiar things , and above that . ALL you want to do is ride your bike and play in the sand box with your best friends.
My boys are confident athletic and quite able to entertain themselves, but reading this thread has made me realize that we need to make access to their peers a priority. For My wife and i it doesn't really matter where we go , just that we go.
Kevin 
Solange IV
KP 44


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well, I'm a cruising dad too. I was going to register with that name, but it was taken... hahaha...

I generally spend 10-14 days out on the water at a time. I just found this thread, and hopefully can provide any insight to folks who are considering going out with the kids. 

I've found a few important points that help out. 

-rig up some safety nets, even if it is 1/4" lines criss-crossed in your lifelines with rolling hitches at each crossover. 

-keep lots of activities for the kids. The younger ones love coloring and books, the older ones like fishing, swiming, cooking and board games. We use one locker just for kid stuff like gi-joes and cars, etc.

-include them in as much as the activities as you can. My middle son loves going out to sail the El Toro dinghy with me on days where there is not a lot going on. We sail to the beach with the basset hound and kids and let them swim. 

-let them do a sailing related task. Some of the kids love to help hoist a mainsail or genoa, others like to hold the wheel. some are just happy to be sailing without an engine and ask endless questions about "how it works"

-Do safety drills with them. Repeat the "rules" about what happens if they fall in. mine know to" 1. Stay calm, 2. let the life vest float them 3. blow the whistle (attached to each vest we have along with a strobe.)

- Go over how to use the fire extinguishers, where they are, and how to use the radio in an emergency. They think that being a part of the "crew" is cooler than being a passenger.

- Let them be kids.

- Make sure they know "one hand for the ship, one for yourself"

-Give them their "own space" and maybe a locker or lock-box to store the "cool stuff" they find along the trip.

-put them in vests any time they are even near the companionway. I used to keep them in a vest except for when they were sleeping, but now we do an "above deck/below deck" rule. the boat-cops and fellow sailors at the YC think that is ok.

Those are just a few offhand. I hope that helps.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Oh - one last thought. The older kids like to hang out with kids of their age. They make friends fast, and they go play for hours at a time when we are anchored, rafted, or at the slip. Having them off the boat for a few hours makes a good time to clean clean clean... and there is a LOT of time given to that. 

I think that cleaning time on our ship increases by two hours per day with each additional passenger aboard.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Lancer...agree 100% good post.

This year Fred for the first time was allowed to sleep outside the boat.

Him and his bets friend, this year slept alone on one of the islands we visited.

I rigged the tent for them at 5 pm, and by 6 they already asking to go ashore to the tent...they needed to talk...I was told ehehehehehe

I gave them a cell phone, a radio, 4 flash lights, one with strobe, food etc.

They had a blast...I however needed to go ashore at least 4 times to check on them without them finding out...let me tell you...nowadays a 10 yo's conversation.....I only had those when I was 16!!!!!

Fred took his laptop with him to play games, he was the designated dinghy driver, so I could help the wife with the little baby..he did also most of the sailing...

We then met a Spanish family traveling with 4 Spanish young girls on board...we never saw Fred until it was time to sleep during that time...ehehehehebut we could hear the comotion going on in certain Spanish vessel, Fred was having a blast with the "Señoritas" !!!!!! he even dove from the mast...a first since he hates diving...

I agree with everythiung you said.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

I have been selling my house and moving my business (and getting ready for the plunge!!!!) so, it has been put off a bit. I have NOT forgotten about it yet, though!!!


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## allrightlefty (Jan 27, 2007)

I have seen a few books dedicated to this subject,does anyone have any experience with them?.Is there any one book that you would recommend?


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## jheldatksuedu (Jul 4, 2006)

*Enjoyed this tremendously*

This is a great thread, I don't have kids yet, but hope to soon, I've got to find the wife first, that's why I'm planning to circumnavigate. Thanks to all that have added their wisdom. Jon


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

One thing is for sure!! You can't say to the child: GO TO YOUR ROOM!! So you have to learn how to speak the language of children for a better relationship with them.
Then the kids from three or four other boats want a sleep over. And while that is happening you pray that the parents of the visiting kids don't sail away in the dark of night.


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## pem (Jun 15, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> I have been selling my house and moving my business (and getting ready for the plunge!!!!) so, it has been put off a bit. I have NOT forgotten about it yet, though!!!


Cruisingdad,

I was following this thread last year and was really looking forward to your article. Have you had the time to pick it back up again?


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Not yet, sorry. I am drowning in my business with work to be done. Hopefully soon I can get back into this.

THanks,

CD


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## anthony11 (Aug 19, 2008)

Sabreman said:


> Our daughter is now 13 and I can see a day when she'll not want to come on a two week trip unless a boy is involved (No way! says Dad). I kind of recall a time when I was that age and I balked at sailing, but have apparently gotten over it.


I realize that this is an old thread, but what's the objection to a boy being along? It's not like they can hide anywhere on a boat, arguably better than having them running around on land where you can't watch.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

As long as the boy sleeps in the dinghy on a long painter, it should be Okay.


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## anthony11 (Aug 19, 2008)

camaraderie said:


> Knot... my own view is to never take teenagers out cruising because it is unfiar to their personal developement (peers, sports, techniical schooling, girl/boyfriends) and never cross oceans with kids of any kind since the risks go up dramatically when you can't avoid bad weather or duck into port. If adults want to cross oceans...that is just fine, but to make that choice for thier kids concerns mel


Clearly "cruising" means something different to many here than it does to most people I've talked to. "Cruising" to me means going out on a boat for a week or two to regional destinations. Going off trans-ocean or around the world for a couple of years is another thing entirely and puzzling to me to see it assumed in this discussion.


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## anthony11 (Aug 19, 2008)

camaraderie said:


> 1. Academics...most parents cannot provide a rich educational environment at the high school or ADVANCED high school levels. Advanced math, physics, Chem, PC programming, etc. ...let alone the easy stuff like English grammer (sp! lol), history, foreign languages. A teen taken sailing will most always be academically disadvantaged, less prepared to do well on the SAT's and less likely to get into as good a college as he/she might otherwise do in a good school on land.


If a parent/parents can afford to buy and maintain a six-figure boat and to not have a job, they're rich enough to hire a teacher to voyage with them, and the only reason for that teen to go to college would be to party, since he/she isn't going to have to work for a living either. Let's stop pretending that multi-millionaires have the same concerns as anyone else, ie. what's left of the middle class.


> Furthermore the ability to take part in group activities such as sports, plays, dance, scouting etc. where one learns to work hard to hone a talent or reach a goal and work as a team member are also quite important.


That's the convention wisdom, but let's stop kidding ourselves: it's been at least decades since these activities have had anything to do with goals and teamwork. Professional sports today actively encourage kids to be self-centered. School sports are about bullying, getting laid, and driving home the idea that actually learning something is of little value.


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

We plan on cruising with our kids, but we are not multi millionaires....just determined! All the cruisers with kids I know are fairly middle class people, they just have the will to make it happen financially.

Home schooling for the younger kids, again, is a matter of determination... No professional teacher will be required!


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Anthony...Well you can take it as you want but my entire POST was devoted to FULL TIME CRUISING with teenagers. That is a subset of ALL cruising but a very important one to many of those who have posted on this thread including the originator who is planning on going full time. Try reading the posts by Giu and CD before mine which were ALL about FT Cruising.Since when am I or anyone else limited to only discussing YOUR version of cruising?

As far as your second post goes...most cruisers with big boats sold their house to get them and no one here said you have to have a big boat to go f/t cruising. They can't afford to stay in marinas let alone bring a tutor that is capable of teaching college level high school courses in all areas of science and math. Your assumptions about people who can afford to cruise are dead wrong for 90% of the full timers out there...many of whom are on strict budgets, anchor out full time and have a limited window of a couple of years or so to cruise. Others like me worked for thirty years at 60-70 hours a week and went without lots of stuff in order to make retirement possible. Your post smacks of class envy and a petty jealousness of anyone who has it better than you. 



As to sports, teamwork, socialization, and nuturing of special talents... let's just say that our opinions differ and I hope your kids turn out ok.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

anthony11 said:


> If a parent/parents can afford to buy and maintain a six-figure boat and to not have a job, they're rich enough to hire a teacher to voyage with them, and the only reason for that teen to go to college would be to party, since he/she isn't going to have to work for a living either. Let's stop pretending that multi-millionaires have the same concerns as anyone else, ie. what's left of the middle class.


Anthony11,

Camaraderie summed it up pretty well but, sorry, I have to add that it's been a long time since I read anything so ridiculous on Sailnet.

By your same reasoning, any land-bound parents that can afford to buy a six-figure home can also afford a full-time private tutor for their kids. Maybe in sub-Saharan Africa, but not anywhere I've ever lived.

Your implication that family cruisers are largely comprised of "millionaires" is ludicrous. The vast majority of full-time cruising families (the subject of this thread) are decidedly middle class. In most cases, they swapped their six-figure homes for five or six figure boats, sold their cars, and are living off hard earned savings and investments while they pursue an expensive dream for a few years. Given the tight budgets and limited income most operate on, many of them technically don't even qualify as "middle class" during their cruise.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

My kids can't read or write, but man do they sail....they can even sail my millionaire boat.....so I do nothing with my millionair butt, while my millionaire wife does nothing either...

If I sent them to school, I would have to do the work...not me..no way..

Boys....come about!!!! NOWWWWWWWWWW!


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

JohnRPollard said:


> By your same reasoning, any land-bound parents that can afford to buy a six-figure home can also afford a full-time private tutor for their kids. Maybe in sub-Saharan Africa, but not anywhere I've ever lived.


What have you got against sub-Saharan Africa?   The statements by AnthonyII are dumb for anywhere.

I have friends who brought their kids up from babies on three different circumnavigations over 15 years. They taught the kids whatever it was they needed academically themselves and the world taught them the rest which was way more than any shore-based kid would have got. They have both graduated from good universities and are gainfully employed at a very acceptable level. And their parents, like me, are hard-working ordinary people who are a long way from being millionaires.

Cruising to me means international sailing from country to country, culture to culture. If cruising to AnthonyII means a week trip away from his home then he has a boring cruising life to look forward to. How many places/cultures can one visit that are a week away from home?

Andre


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## Ready2go (Sep 18, 2008)

*Include children in the planning*

We have been working and saving towards our dream of cruising for 16 years. Our children are now 9 and 7, and we will be leaving within a year to a year and a half. They have always known that we are leaving, and we have included them in discussions and planning. I think this is very important to add to your article. Children will be more willing and except the change when they take part in it. They came with us every time we went boat hunting, and they love the boat we are currently buying for our trip. We constantly talk about the future and where we might go and what they would like to see. They have an idea of what to expect so that helps with some of the fears of moving from a home which they have always lived. They are by no means equal partners-they are 9 and 7.... but we want them to at least FEEL that have an important part in the famliy-which they do.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

If they drive you up the walls, take them out beyond the 12 mile limit and push them into the drink.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

anthony11 said:


> If a parent/parents can afford to buy and maintain a six-figure boat and to not have a job, they're rich enough to hire a teacher to voyage with them, and the only reason for that teen to go to college would be to party, since he/she isn't going to have to work for a living either. Let's stop pretending that multi-millionaires have the same concerns as anyone else, ie. what's left of the middle class.
> 
> That's the convention wisdom, but let's stop kidding ourselves: it's been at least decades since these activities have had anything to do with goals and teamwork. Professional sports today actively encourage kids to be self-centered. School sports are about bullying, getting laid, and driving home the idea that actually learning something is of little value.


Ouch.

I realize everyone has already made some comments about this, but as this is my thread, and I fit your profile, I guess I should comment too.

First of all, finding a boat that will work for a small family to go cruising on without killing each other is probably going to exceeed 100k. Obviously, we have a Cat 400, which has the benefit of being a nice and roomy boat and meets many of the qualification we have set for a good cruising boat with kids. However, even at 40 feet and well over 100k, life gets tight. I bet even my good friend Alex will tell you that when the kids are boarded up on the boat for days at a time, life gets interesting. It is a challenge to find things for them to do (or you to do with them) to keep from killing each other or wanting to kill yourself. Sorry - that is just life.

And why would I take a tutor? My wife and I are more than qualified to teach our children, and probably better than they would be educated otherwise.

I have found almost all sailors, from what one might term wealthy to layman, share a fairly common trait: they are easy going and live pretty simply. They do not carry the 'tutors' of the world and would not want them on their boat. They share a love for nature and the sea and generally shun the 'country club' life as disingenuous. I cannot say they are not multi-millionaires or that they are. We never talk about it or our jobs. We talk about sailing and different destinations. For those of us with kids, the conversation circle around places to go that are kid friendly and where we might be able to hook back up again to let the kids play together. Most of us live on budgets and get creative to make ends meet. Whether by boat or house, that makes most us little different from any other family in the US. Our exceptions lie in what we call home - and where.

I also agree with Cam about planning on coming back to a shore-side life when they are teenagers. Whether we do or not will depend on the circumstances. But children need to grow up and experience life without mom and dad. Puberty, girls, camaraderie of their fellows, and the millions of other experiences that they could (and should) experience on thier own that will shape their lives. Many (or most) of them will be things that we as parents will find rediculous or of poor judgement. But we cannot stop them from making those bad decisions. We can only be there for them when they do. That is part of growing up and becoming an adult. Afterwards, they SHOULD and BETTER go to college and achieve their degrees. It will be their turn to shape their lives and build families of their own. As parents, especially parents that take/have taken their children cruising, we hope that we have exposed them to the many woders of the world (civiliazations, cultures, nature, and other sailors) which they otherwise would have never been able to experience. It is not mine and Christie's intention to exclude them from a shoreside life - but instead to provide them a different perspective up on which to view it when they return. What they do with it from there is up to them.

Few children get this chance. Mostly I feel this is because of the incredible costs of making it happen (both monetary and personal sacrifice). And quite candidly, many simply do not find it of any interest. My sister feels it is rediculous. Her comment to me is, "I would never live anywhere that my ice cream would be melted before I got it home." HEHEHE! God love her. I certainly do not hold that against her. To each his own. But if you are going to go cruising with your kids, the reality is that you have a small window to make it happen. That requires a lot of sacrifice and savings and planning - whether millionaire or every day joe. But there are truly few people that cannot do it if they set their heart to it. A mountain is climbed one rock at a time.

- CD

Cruising with Children:

You MAKE this work:










... to let this work...


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Good Lord, CD....your son, has a turd in between his legs, sticking out in that photo..

Oh..wait a minute...it's you....sorry...hard to see the difference...


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

Excellent post Cruisingdad, that sums it up for us!


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## MtnMike (Mar 5, 2007)

Well I need to put in my two cents also.

First of all, I don't post here often, but I research and read articles here a lot. My wife and I were really excited to see that "Cruising Dad" was putting together a compilation of articles for folks that cruise with children. We are always open and interested to hear what others have done to more ready ourselves to the cruising life with kids. 
I was somewhat taken aback by "Gui's" comments about how "cruel" it is to take teenagers out on extended cruises and "Cams" statements on how wrong and depriving it is to take kids on cruises for several years. But then I got over it. It's our lives to do what we dream of doing.
My son is fifteen and has been a part of our plans for the last few years. His main comment to me is "Why haven't we left yet?". As to socializing, he managed to find kids to play with, no matter where we were in the Bahamas last year. He found kids to play with on islands that weren't even inhabited. It was amazing. And even if there aren't kids around, he has no problem striking up a conversation with adults. 
Yes, we could live in a marina, but we chose to live the cruising lifestye and not be liveaboards. There's a lot of planning to do a lifestyle change of this magnitude and my family and I are confident that we have covered the bases quite well. 
I quess the bottom line is, like "Valiente", we aren't rock solid set on any program. The general plan is to cruise the east coast US and Carribean for a couple of years, and more if we want to. If it turn out to be a circumnavigation and all agree to do it, so be it. 
As you can see by my ramblings, it is not my "job" to teach my son grammar on this journey. 

And that folks, is my opion on the subject.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Mike...opinions will vary! Just to clarify...mine is that taking kids on extended cruising (several years or more) is FINE if the kids are young. Actually, not only fine...but a GRAND idea and expterience. My opinion against cruising with kids is ONLY for teenagers and I believe I've made my reasons clear above so I won't belabor the points. 

This will sound harsh...but I don't mean it to be personal. As a parent, I don't care if my kid wants to go cruising or not. I don't care if he wants to do well in school or not. I don't care if he wants to spend 10 hours a day on the TV or not. Who cares what kids THINK? We need to do what is BEST for them regardless of what they think. We need to defer our own dreams if that is not BEST for them. Each parent will need to judge what is best for their own kids...but be careful that you are not super-imposing your own dreams on what will be best for them. It is easy to rationalize.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> Mike...opinions will vary! Just to clarify...mine is that taking kids on extended cruising (several years or more) is FINE if the kids are young. Actually, not only fine...but a GRAND idea and expterience. My opinion against cruising with kids is ONLY for teenagers and I believe I've made my reasons clear above so I won't belabor the points.
> 
> This will sound harsh...but I don't mean it to be personal. As a parent, I don't care if my kid wants to go cruising or not. I don't care if he wants to do well in school or not. I don't care if he wants to spend 10 hours a day on the TV or not. Who cares what kids THINK? We need to do what is BEST for them regardless of what they think. We need to defer our own dreams if that is not BEST for them. Each parent will need to judge what is best for their own kids...but be careful that you are not super-imposing your own dreams on what will be best for them. It is easy to rationalize.


That is a very well reasoned and well stated point. I even agree with it completely. Having said that, it baffles me how you could have a son like CD. You deserved better.


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## goldilockz24 (Nov 26, 2008)

*hi there*

I just read your post. We are thinking of buying a boat with our 19 month old. I am concerned about school/socializing.... We would probably do it in the winter months perhaps 3 months a year........ How does this all work with your kids?????? Do you fell you have good support??????? REGINA



Sialia said:


> Cruisingdad,
> 
> This is a great idea and one that will be helpful to all of those thinking about cruising with their kids.
> 
> ...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

GUU-

A turd would look better and not have the goofy smile on its face... 


Giulietta said:


> Good Lord, CD....your son, has a turd in between his legs, sticking out in that photo..
> 
> Oh..wait a minute...it's you....sorry...hard to see the difference...


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## magnusmurphy (Jul 7, 2000)

*Two teenage girls onboard*

We completed a seven month trip at the end of June starting in Florida (after sailing from RI during the summer to Norfolk and then having the boat delivered to Florida). We did the "thorny path" down to Grenada, where our boat is awaiting our (short-term) return in December. Our two teenage daughters were 15 and almost 13 when our trip ended. Although a modest trip compared to many, it was a life changing event for our entire family.

During our trip, our daughters completed their respective school grades almost independently, using resources given to us from their usual school, supplemented by things we saw along the way. We had some email contact with the teachers for when we couldn't help (quite often in fact with our 15 year old's math ;-( ).

Prior to our trip our daughters were very sceptical, for reasons already discussed here, especially by Cam. I remember our youngest saying "you're ruining my life!"

It is interesting how their opinions changed as the cruise progressed. Currently, they ask us at least once a week if we couldn't sell our house, quit our jobs and go cruising full-time, with them homeschooling on the boat. They seem to be completely serious. When asked about friends/boyfriends, they answer "they can come visit" and anyway, there's facebook, MSN, etc.

This trip was the BEST thing we've ever done as a family. The time we spent together was the most wonderful one can ever imagine and my relationship with my daughters has grown into something that would have been completely impossible if we'd continued our usual busy "land-lives".

It's interesting how difficult we all find it to re-integrate into our regular routine, even now almost six months after we returned. The conspicuous consumer lifestyles most people live have no more appeal to us and the usual things that seemed so important in the past, now are shrugged off, while we struggle to still spend time with each other.

I'm thinking of asking my daughters to write their own experiences here, in their teenage voices - if that will be of interest.

Yours sincerely

Magnus Murphy


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## T37SOLARE (Feb 1, 2008)

> I'm thinking of asking my daughters to write their own experiences here, in their teenage voices - if that will be of interest.


Please do try, as I'm having major sailing issues with my 15 year old daughter and it would be great for me to be able to show it to her.

Not that we're planning on taking off before she's out of high school, as she's looking at majoring in theater and music, and I'm not capable of dealing with that drama on a a boat


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

I have just finished re-reading for about the 5th time the two Liza Copeland's books "Just Cruising" "Still Cruising", about her circumnavigation with her husband and three sons. 

Obviously the Copelands are only one family, and may or may not be indicative of the majority of cruising families, yet their experience seemed to be an immensely enriching one for their children. Rather than being 'trapped' on a boat with their parents, 'Unsocialized' from the regular world, Liza tells of how the children were part of an close knit community of world cruisers, they were forever out and about with other boat kids and/or playing the the local children. She speaks of the challenges as well, but by and large they made it work for them in a way that enriched their children's upbringing (through to teens) more than shorebased life may of. 

Im sure however that for families who venture into the blue yonder with a selfish attitude, not putting in the extra effort required to make the dream work for the children, it could be a horrible expereince. Sitting in the saloon for days on end killing each other through boredom is not fun for anyone, but is really no different to having kids coped up with just an Xbox inside a house in the suburbs..... The solution to both is I guess good parenting.


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## magnusmurphy (Jul 7, 2000)

*One teenager's view of the cruising life*

Hi everyone my name is Michele Murphy and I am 15 years old. My family took 7 months off to sail the Caribbean. It was the best thing that ever happened to me.

At first I was like every other teenager saying things like, " Why would you do this to me", " You're ruining my life", " What about my friends". I felt like my parents were just doing this to make my life miserable. Turns out that's not what they wanted to do at all.

A normal day at home consists of: get up early for school, go to school for 7 and a half hours, come home, maybe do some sports, finish homework, go to bed. BORING.
A normal day on the boat for me was: wake up when you feel like, do school work for 3 hours, have lunch, swim, tan, have a shower, and watch a movie before bed. AWESOME.

Doing school work on a boat is not as hard as one would think. Even with only 3 hours a day I managed to finish my years work on time, without being overly stressed about it. I took notes and wrote important facts in my notebook for each subject. My teachers had also sent me quizzes to do. I used a pen scanner to send back the quizzes for marking. I would email teachers if I needed help with certain concepts and I would always receive a reply. I was never behind in work, learning the same material as my classmates. The only difference for me was that I did not have to write the PSAT's when I returned. Now being back in school I have no difficulties with the work. I remember the concepts I learned while on the boat. I am in no way behind, I am coping well with the amount of work I get now. Currently I am taking 4 AP courses and having no real difficulties.

This trip made me look at the world differently and think to myself, "Why are people always buying things they don't need?" The places we saw showed us how lucky we are compared to some of the people living on these islands. It makes you appreciate life. The sail trip also opened my eyes to things that really matter in life.

Life on a boat is very different than life in a house. You have to fight for time in the bathroom, you can't spend hours applying makeup, and you get absolutely no privacy what so ever. But on a boat, none of this matters. No one cares if your wearing mascara or not, it's pointless. People only care about your personality.

At school you get to see your friends every day and ya, you get to hang out at the mall, go shopping, hang out with your boyfriend, but when does that matter when you can live on a boat with the family you love, living a new adventure everyday?

As I am writing this it has started snowing, only reminding me about how much I want to sail off into the sunset and never return.

The people you meet on a trip like this are incredible. Personally I have found the people we have met on the trip way more interesting than my friends. We hear stories of how their boat broke down, or how they had to sail through a storm while barfing off the side of the boat. No offense to my friends but these are stories I can relate to. Trying to tell stories like that, just isn't interesting to people who have not experienced it. It is pointless to try and explain it. They just don't get it.

The experiences you gain from a trip like this are incredible. The different places you see, the people you meet, the stories you hear. I loved not worrying about little things like what to wear on my next date, or when to have my next sleepover. The little things like that don't matter on a boat.

Now whenever I'm at school whether it's learning about how to write thesis statements, hearing my teacher keep saying " So what?" over and over again, or if it's learning how to factor trinomials, I always think to myself, "What would I be doing now if I was on the boat?", or "Damn I just want to go back to the boat and not have to worry about this." Now I am living in Calgary again, hardly ever seeing my family other than dinner time and on weekends, and I can't help but wish I was back on the boat. I want the wind to blow through my hair, I want the spray of the sea in my face, I want to jump into the ocean whenever I feel like it, I want to hear the sound of the waves lapping against the hull, or rolling up on the beach.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Thanks Michele and Murphy family for giving us your point of view. Very well written and articulated I thought, hope you get a chance to get back out there cruising when the time is right.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Michelle,

Nicely done! I plan to share this with our kids -- I know they will be thrilled to hear your story. 

Thanks so much for taking the time to write!


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## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

Wow, Michelle. You are a very lucky young lady. It is wonderful that you have had such an exciting and eye opening experience.

I'm sure those experiences and your new appreciation for life's real priorities will help guide you through a very satisfying life.

Thanks for sharing and helping motivate all us to take our families on a similar adventure!!


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Magnus and Michelle,

A very nice story. No doubt when people read this (especially those that are your age or about to take kids), your thoughts will comfort them. It is a big step for parents and one not taken lightly. It sounds like your family did it for the right reasons and made it successful. 

Please hang around and share as much as you like. PM me with any questions or thoughts if necessary.

Take care,

Brian


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

CD,

This is fantastic idea. I think there are many families like ours that would love to go cruising but have concerns about home schooling, college acceptance and having friends to hang out with. For our family it would be a much easier decision to go cruising if we had 2 or more children. Our daughter is our only child and she can't imagine being without her friends in the neighborhood and at school. I'm trying to research experiences of other cruisers to see if anyone with 1 child has found ways to address these same issues and concerns.

Bob


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