# Non-Pressurized Alcohol Stove



## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

The boat we're buying has a pressurized alcohol stove. Despite the fact it's in great condition (with a little cleanup, and I mean very little, it could probably almost pass for brand new), our surveyor recommended we replace it. He described the operational ins-and-outs of pressurized alcohol stoves--incl. their propensity for catching things on fire . He recommended we replace it with an unpressurized alcohol stove that he said works like a Sterno can. (He mentioned a model name, but I can't recall it.)

What are these, how well do they work, and what do they cost?

Thanks,
Jim


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

My previous boat had an Origo pressureless alcohol stove and it worked very well. It is much safer than the old style pressure stoves. Lots of places sell the Origo. Check for a price here on Sailnet (radical thought I know.)


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Semi,
Defender has one on sale...
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|406|694|319792&id=60320


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Bad joke here, but I post it because it is interesting.

Here is the non-pressurized alcohol stove that I use camping.










And instructions on how you make it from Pepsi cans. 

Wiki Beverage Can link
Pepsi Can stove w/ instructions


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Wind Magic,
I was wondering myself why a nonpressurized alcohol stove costs $200+... It must be the advanced technology. Wait, no, it must be something else...


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

We had a boat once with a Kenyon, two burner, pressurized alcohol stove - and aside from the pump to pressure and burner preheating rituals, I actually liked cooking with it. It was much hotter than the non-pressurized versions and fairly easy to use.

I think the reported flare-up problems are a result of users uneducated in the proper use. The most important tip is to first fill the burner cup, shut the valve, and THEN light the alcohol until it burns out. Then turn the jet back on and ignite. If you preheat with the valve open - you'll have a towering infernal.

There's nothing like propane though - gas rules.


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

"True-er" words have not been spoke.

Get familiar with the ritual and you can use it for years to come.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

SailorMitch said:


> My previous boat had an Origo pressureless alcohol stove and it worked very well. It is much safer than the old style pressure stoves.


Ah, that sounds about right. Thanks!



SailorMitch said:


> Lots of places sell the Origo. Check for a price here on Sailnet (radical thought I know.)


Not a radical idea at all. But if they have it, they're doing a damn good job of hiding it, as I can't find it. A A search on "origo" didn't turn it up, nor did manually digging-down to galley stoves.

Jim


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Jim,
If you do anything more than stay on board once in a blue moon or want to boil water for tea or coffee then throw the bugger overboard and get gas. Properly installed its as safe as anything else and you will not grow old waiting for the water to boil.
Both my last two boats came with 'alcohol' (we call it metho down here) stoves and they were jettisoned right quickly.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

TrueBlue said:


> We had a boat once with a Kenyon, two burner, pressurized alcohol stove - and aside from the pump to pressure and burner preheating rituals, I actually liked cooking with it. It was much hotter than the non-pressurized versions and fairly easy to use.


Fair 'nuff.



TrueBlue said:


> I think the reported flare-up problems are a result of users uneducated in the proper use. The most important tip is to first fill the burner cup, shut the valve, and THEN light the alcohol until it burns out. Then turn the jet back on and ignite. If you preheat with the valve open - you'll have a towering infernal.


Very well. I planned on giving the Kenyon that's in the boat a chance, first, anyway. I'm sure we'll find more than enough to spend our money on, without having to make stuff up .

Thanks for the tip!

Jim


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailhog said:


> Semi,
> Defender has one on sale...
> http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|406|694|319792&id=60320


Thanks for the pointer, sailhog.

Jim


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

tdw said:


> Jim,
> If you do anything more than stay on board once in a blue moon


Actually, we were planning on cruising the Great Lakes with this boat, some day. That's why we went for a 30' boat, rather than a day sailer.



tdw said:


> or want to boil water for tea or coffee then throw the bugger overboard and get gas.


What?!?! You can't boil water on these things? Gotta be able to boil water. Gotta be able to make coffee and tea.

Maybe it's just in Australia water won't boil on 'em?





tdw said:


> Properly installed its as safe as anything else and you will not grow old waiting for the water to boil.


Ah, they _will_ boil water... eventually. Hmmm...



tdw said:


> Both my last two boats came with 'alcohol' (we call it metho down here) stoves and they were jettisoned right quickly.


I'll take it under advisement. Would prefer to avoid having to do that, but it's gotta be able to boil water in my lifetime, else, really, what's the point?

Thanks, tdw.

Jim


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

SEMIJim-

The Origo stoves are relatively low-heat outpu devices and take longer than a propane or butane stove to heat water, since they have a much lower BTU rating. Also, propane is cheaper per BTU. 

SD


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

The West Marine stores have stopped stocking the Origo stove. I picked up the last 2-burner 3000 at my local store for $148 this spring. That's less than half of what Defender was asking. I wasn't planning on replacing my original Kenyon, but at that price I grabbed it. Having used Kenyons for 20+ years I can say they are a bit finicky and parts are becoming harder to find. The Origo is much simpler to operate and seems to produce a bit more heat than the Kenyon did. If your current Kenyon is working fine, go with it. If not, or you don't want to deal with the preheating ritual, get an Origo.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Alcohol can be mastered, but I consider it strictly for casual use (cans of soup, pots of coffee made in a mere 30 minutes). Given its BTU output and its cost, it has got to be the most expensive fuel available...when you can find "cooking alcohol".

I too had a Kenyon Homestrand...and converted it to propane.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

The Origo burners are rated at 7000 Btu/hr. Most propane burners are rated at 5000 to 9000 Btu/hr. Sounds like a wash to me. Denatured stove achohol is about $10/gallon at my local hardware store - about enough for a season of cooking on weekend cruises and an annual 1-2 week cruise. Converting to propane with new stove, tanks, regulator, hoses, solenoid, etc. is a major expenditure. Probably not worth it for an older, smaller boat.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Valiente-

Most alcohol stoves will work just fine with Denatured Alcohol, which is available at almost every hardware store or home building supply shop I've ever been in.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

SJ,

I had Origos on my two previous boats, and was thinking about getting one for the boat I have now, (it came with a Force 10 propane). Was pretty nervous about sailing around with a tank of pressurized gas, particularly with older hoses and solenoid.

Price of Origos here is about the same as the price of propane stoves - actually a bit more if you want the oven. So decided to economise and replaced the propane control system and now am glad that I did. Cooking onboard is no longer "camping". Two gas burners and a gas oven - decent meals are no more difficult to prepare than they are ashore. Big difference from the Origo because we can control the heat much more effectively, and they do get a lot hotter...I am looking forward to using the oven to cook dinner in the fall, it will warm up the cabin nicely after a sail in the cool weather.

If I was looking for a stove replacement - I would get propane. If you have the room, there is a Force 10 model that has two burners and a compartment underneath that is sized to hold a microwave - which would be a real boon to have when you are alongside (draws too much power to use at sea).

The pressurised alcohol stoves are pretty dangerous INHO.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Sailormann said:


> compartment underneath that is sized to hold a microwave - which would be a real boon to have when you are alongside (draws too much power to use at sea)


Are you sure ?

I just ask because I have a small microwave that I used off of a small inverter powered by 2 marine deep cycle batteries and it did just fine. It was just a little el'cheapo unit from Kmart or somewhere, like a college kid would have in their dorm room, wasn't even digital it had a little bell thing that you turned and it counted down and dinged. Worked great though, I cooked a lot of stuff in it when I was traveling through Central America.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

> Are you sure ?
> 
> I just ask because I have a small microwave that I used off of a small inverter powered by 2 marine deep cycle batteries and it did just fine. It was just a little el'cheapo unit from Kmart or somewhere, like a college kid would have in their dorm room, wasn't even digital it had a little bell thing that you turned and it counted down and dinged. Worked great though, I cooked a lot of stuff in it when I was traveling through Central America.


I haven't used one myself, so my statement is more generalisation than fact. The microwaves I have looked at have had draws that would pooch my batteries in about 2 meals. I have no solar panels or any method of charging outside of the engine, which I don't like to use if I can avoid it.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

The smallest SHARP microwave DRAWS 1100 watts...or 91 AMPS (plus conversion losses....so lets call it 100) from your batteries during operation. If you have an inverter that can handle this, the damage to your battery bank is relatively minor 16 amps/hours for 10 minutes use. Microwaves typically do not like cheap inverters...get a sine wave or GOOD modified sine wave inverter if you want to run one off your batteries.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> The smallest SHARP microwave DRAWS 1100 watts...or 91 AMPS (plus conversion losses....so lets call it 100) from your batteries during operation. If you have an inverter that can handle this, the damage to your battery bank is relatively minor 16 amps/hours for 10 minutes use. Microwaves typically do not like cheap inverters...get a sine wave or GOOD modified sine wave inverter if you want to run one off your batteries.


Hmm, I should go and check and see what I used on my trip, brb! 

Ok, this is what I used.

Microwave is a Sunbeam SBM7700W
120 Volt A/C
8 Amps

So the microwave uses, what is that, 960 watts. I got that microwave at Walmart, it was on special for like 99$us at the time I bought it, or maybe it was 59$us, I remember it was something absurd and it was definitely under 100$us.

Inverter is a Vector MAXXSST w/ soft start technology (whatever that means!)
1500 Watt peak
750 Watt running

This may have come from Advance Auto Parts, I can't remember.

Here is a place selling one for 100$us.

I ran that off of 2 deep cycle marine batteries I got from Advance Auto.

Even though that cheap inverter (750 watt running, 1500 watt peak) doesn't say it's big enough to run that microwave (960 watts), I can assure you it ran it just fine, often. 

I wasn't preparing like giant multi-course meals with the thing, of course, it was just me most of the time. The biggest meal I made in it was for me and this gardener at some Mexican RV camping place, and I think we had chunky soup, a can of corn, and I forget what else, just things you heat up for a few minutes.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I forgot to mention what we ended up using more than anything else, and that was a Coleman two-burner camp stove with a propane one-pound bottle (the green spin on ones). I still use those for the Magma BBQ on the new boat, because I don't feel like putting a Y-connector in the ship's propane line and running hose under the decks.

The Coleman folds flat to about 4 inches thick and stows easily. We used it exclusively in the cockpit on a 4 foot x 1 foot x 1/2 inch pine plank with a rubber mat glued to it as "anti-skid". We took care of the connectors and made sure they were tight and secure. We had fair weather more often than not, and "cockpit cooking" kept the boat cool, and the Coleman burners were superior to any alcohol stove. I suppose if you had a cockpit table instead of a tiller like us, it would have been even more secure. We used the "camp toaster" on one side and a frying pan on the other and had many a delicious breakfast from it. Of course, the coffee was made rapidly by boiling water and using a Bodum (sometimes called a French press). We use the same stuff for civilized camping, just as we do the various tarping and hammock-erecting techniques. Could be a Canadian thing...I dunno...

I took the Coleman with me on the new boat, because the combo of the rail BBQ and the Coleman stove on a steel deck covered with anti-skid on a hot morning is better than having the Force 10 roaring away in the galley.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

> Of course, the coffee was made rapidly by boiling water and using a Bodum (sometimes called a French press).


We love coffee made with our Bodum as well - a saucepan, or tea kettle, of spring water boils in just 3 minutes over a propane burner. Scoop 5-6 measures of course ground coffee into the bottom of the carafe (I buy whole beans of French Roast and grind enough for cruising, from shore power), pour water in and let it steep for 5 minutes. Then plunge the gasketed and screened cover down and enjoy.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


>


Damn, that's a properly sized one. Not like those tiny things they use on Portuguese race boats to save weight!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I have a converter on my boat - not an inverter, hence I think that I have to use a 12V microwave... The batteries have 230 amp hours (when they were new - about 7 years old now). So when I looked at the RV microwaves I believe they were drawing close to 100 amps, which I figured would probably wipe the batteries out fast.


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## Joesaila (May 19, 2007)

We checked out a lot of the old post when our 30' Morgan OI came with a new Origo non pressurized Alc. and almost bought the arguments about the slow cooking Origo but one sailer said she had used one for about 10 years and loved it so we decided to give it a try. It works great, we love it too and while it lacks an oven it cooks and heats our food and coffee fine. We use denatured Alch. from most any hardware store and at the suggestion of one of the experts purchased an Aeropress coffee maker [you only heat the water to 165-175 degrees to make perfect coffee]. We have owned and used propane on other boats and yes its faster but the expense [and danger] does not make it worthwhile to us. Try it, then decide. You too may be pleasantly surprised.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

JS-

I'm glad you like the Aeropress. I've given a few away as gifts...they're great.


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## Mary51 (May 1, 2006)

*Non-pressurized alcohol works fine for me*

This last trip out, I cooked and baked using a pressure cooker and the non-pressuized Origo. It worked just fine.

The preference here seems similar to discussion of electric windlasses in a way. Is it important to you do things quickly (electric windlass, propane stove/oven) or would you rather not have to operate and maintain complicated systems (non-pressure alcohol, manual or no windlass)?

I have to keep it simple.

Mary


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## fordo (Jul 3, 2006)

The Tartan 30 I bought had an Origo that the PO had put in to replace the pressurized alcohol stove. I was very pleasantly suprised by how good it is. Much faster than I expected. Retrofitting for propane can be a real pain and pressurized alcohol can be very annoying, especially as these stoves are now pretty old. If it is not easy to install the propane go with the Origo. I am told that West Marine handles these stoves on a special order basis. Good Luck! Ford


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## bsfree (Oct 25, 2001)

I'm very happy with my Origo 6000, cooked a delicious roast chicken this past weekend, and while it is true that the temp control is not precise I have learned to use the oven more by "feel" than numbers. The top burners work just fine for me. I think it's an individual preference whether one goes with propane or alcohol, the reality is they both are capable of cooking a decent meal, safely, how decent will depend on the cook!
There has been a lot of debate over propane v alcohol, I myself asked for advice here before I went the alcohol way, mainly because of the simplicity. It is more expensive, cost me approx $14 a gallon which lasts around 4 weeks cooking every day.
All the best


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## CosmosMariner (Dec 21, 2006)

I can't resist getting into this one! Our Origo has worked well for over 20 years. We replaced the canisters 2 years ago. As an example, I've cooked Chicken piccatta and pasta on it, bacon and eggs, pan fried fish and steaks with steak fries, broccoli and gravy, Chinese dishes and if you check out my photo gallery on this site you can see the cake http://www.sailnet.com/photogallery/showphoto.php/photo/1766/cat/500/ppuser/132057 and Italian bread http://www.sailnet.com/photogallery/showphoto.php/photo/2915/cat/500/ppuser/132057 we bake in our Coleman camper stove set on top of one burner. You can't bake bread without good temperature control and with the thermometer on the Coleman it is easy and precise. I've made time comparisons of using propane vs unpressurized alcohol and the difference is insignificant. I considered switching to propane which is great cooking fuel but given the safety factor we decided to stay with the Origo. We do have a propane Magma grill and a 6lb aluminum bottle mounted on the stern rail.

bsfree, just get an oven thermometer at the hardware store and you'll be able to get it precisely! Also our fuel consumption is the same as you state about a gallon a month using it every day.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Wow, almost four months this thread has been going 

I'd like thank everybody for their comments.

I think, from what I've read here, I'm satisfied an Origo non-pressurized alcohol stove would be the way for us to go. It seems to me much simpler (I like simple) and somewhat safer.

It's not something we're likely to do right away, in any event. This upgrade will wait until we seriously start to plan our first cruise. That's probably a ways off.

Jim


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