# Looking for my first boat



## kjtnt (Mar 1, 2021)

Hi All,

Here researching options for my first boat to live aboard. My initial search is for a good sized boat that needs a fair amount of interior work. I realize there is plenty I don't know, and I appreciate all of the information on this site. I live in Raleigh, NC right now. 

Cheers, Kevin

"Maybe the real lesson of life, is that rational thought crushes your soul"


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## GlanRock (Feb 26, 2013)

Welcome Kevin! You will get a lot more questions then answers most likely. Just a couple off the top of my head, what range are you looking? 5k? 25k? 75k? >200k? How much work are you planning on doing yourself, you mention a boat that needs a fair amount of interior work. Are you an experienced sailor, novice, somewhere between? You plan on living aboard, are you planning on sailing? That might sound crazy but I know people who liveaboard and haven't been able to take their boat out for years because they _over-lived-aboard_ if that makes sense. If your planning on sailing, what type? Local? Coastal? Cruising? Round the world?

You can get a monstrous amount of info from the folks here, there are people who've been at it for a really long time from a myriad of different backgrounds. Best of luck!


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Welcome Kevin. It can be done. 

This forum needs to have a thread for all people who want to buy a boat and live aboard. This sort of post comes up regularly and there are many good responses.

Mods need to do this.


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

Welcome Aboard!


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## kjtnt (Mar 1, 2021)

GlanRock said:


> Welcome Kevin! You will get a lot more questions then answers most likely. Just a couple off the top of my head, what range are you looking? 5k? 25k? 75k? >200k? How much work are you planning on doing yourself, you mention a boat that needs a fair amount of interior work. Are you an experienced sailor, novice, somewhere between? You plan on living aboard, are you planning on sailing? That might sound crazy but I know people who liveaboard and haven't been able to take their boat out for years because they _over-lived-aboard_ if that makes sense. If your planning on sailing, what type? Local? Coastal? Cruising? Round the world?
> 
> You can get a monstrous amount of info from the folks here, there are people who've been at it for a really long time from a myriad of different backgrounds. Best of luck!


Hi, and thanks for the reply. I am probably looking to have no more than $25k into it before I set sail. My goal is to live aboard in a marina for a year or so while I complete any restorations and learn to sail, I have 0 experience at that. I am very experienced in carpentry, mechanicals, wiring and plumbing, and have all the tools I need, so I feel confident that I can do most if not all of the work required to to make it operational and livable. Once I feel confident sailing, and Elon gets his Starlink system completed, I plan to sail the Caribbean and to Mexico. My ultimate goal is to the Med, and someday through the canal to Hawaii.

I know there are plenty of opinions about the Hunter 40, but right now I'd say that seems to be the best layout/bang for the buck if I can get one at the right price and condition.


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## MoonBeamEstate (Jan 1, 2021)

Welcome


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## GlanRock (Feb 26, 2013)

I recommend you try to get yourself on a crew and get sailing experience this summer while you're working on buying your boat. The _right _Hunter 40' will do what you want, but that is a lot of boat to learn to sail on, and docking can be tricky if you are alone and learning. If you have zero boating experience (including motoring) then my first statement applies doubly. Your expertise with the others will benefit you greatly, as a novice in those figuring things out has been my Achilles Heel. I've been sailing and boating since I was little.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

kjtnt said:


> I am very experienced in carpentry


Just a note. Boat building is to carpentry as a biplane is to a rocket. No hammer and nails here.


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## kjtnt (Mar 1, 2021)

capta said:


> Just a note. Boat building is to carpentry as a biplane is to a rocket. No hammer and nails here.


True, I understand what you mean. I should have said cabinetry. While I have added rooms and built a garage, my real experience is making furniture. So I'm confident my joinery skills will be tested but also live up to the challenge.


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## JimInPB (Oct 5, 2020)

I have owned 3 hunters. They were very good value for money & had great features. They were comfortable, with well thought out usage of space. They sailed well & proved more durable than I had expected. The interiors were Chevy, not Cadillac. The Hunters I had were designed as coastal boats & served me well for that purpose. I did not take those boats more than 20 miles off shore. Some of the larger Hunters, in good condition, may have given me better blue water confidence. A 40-something foot Hunter is a very different boat compared to the average 20-something foot Hunter.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Marina costs are rather spendy... and living inside of a construction project is not something you want to do,


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

I would look into the actual cost of ownership. Most people getting into sailing look at the price of boats, and think, "I can do that". Then get blown away by the other expenses involved. Just the expenses involved in purchasing the boat can add up. Taxes, survey, moving the boat, moorage waiting for stuff to get fixed, fixing stuff quickly so you can move the boat... As SanderO said, marinas are expensive. Even if you do everything yourself the cost of renovation and upkeep is high. Don't get me wrong, people on a shoestring budget (I have no idea what yours is) do this all the time. I encourage anyone to make a go of it, but, just know what you are getting into. There is a Facebook group, "Tiny Liveaboards", for those that are/or want to live on boats less than 33 feet. Many of them plan on fixing up a boat to live on, with sailing as secondary. My final advice; anytime you think of a question, type it into Google with "site:sailnet" at the end. There is a massive amount of good information over the years on this forum.


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## Layla (Feb 26, 2021)

capta said:


> Just a note. Boat building is to carpentry as a biplane is to a rocket. No hammer and nails here.


What about a wooden boat?
A naive newbie question here, not a serious suggestion.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

kjtnt said:


> True, I understand what you mean. I should have said cabinetry. While I have added rooms and built a garage, my real experience is making furniture. So I'm confident my joinery skills will be tested but also live up to the challenge.


Not to belabor the point, but when I was a teen in frisco, I met a professional cabinet maker who had built the most beautiful boat, inside and out. Interior was all polished black walnut. It took him about 10 years.
The very first time he went sailing on the bay, the interior came completely apart. It was really sad. As far as I know, he walked away from the boat and never sailed again.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Layla said:


> What about a wooden boat?
> A naive newbie question here, not a serious suggestion.


I love wooden boats. I've actually owned and sailed a beautiful old hemaphrodite gaff ketch built in 1909 through the South Seas for 5.5 years. Lovely, classy boats, but a real maintenance headache. It won't be too long before only the rich can afford wooden boats, IMO.


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## Layla (Feb 26, 2021)

capta said:


> ...he walked away from the boat and never sailed again...


A sad story... I wish he had not walked away from the boat and learned how to. It must've been very hard for him.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Layla said:


> A sad story... I wish he had not walked away from the boat and learned how to. It must've been very hard for him.


There are a lot of sad stories in this game.
While in Fiji, a family was headed to Suva from Tonga. After working their way through the Laus, between the two, the parents found themselves totally exhausted, but with clear water ahead to Suva. They put their ten year old daughter on the helm and told her to steer for the lighthouse about 25 miles ahead. They overslept and were woken by a horrendous crash and water entering the boat in large quantities. The dad ran up on deck to chastise his kid for some mistake, but stopped as he realized the bowsprit was pointed directly at the light house from his broken boat on the reef!
A lot of people on here take my comments as negative and discouraging, but my intent is to save those who will listen, from many of these simply made mistakes.


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## kjtnt (Mar 1, 2021)

capta said:


> Not to belabor the point, but when I was a teen in frisco, I met a professional cabinet maker who had built the most beautiful boat, inside and out. Interior was all polished black walnut. It took him about 10 years.
> The very first time he went sailing on the bay, the interior came completely apart. It was really sad. As far as I know, he walked away from the boat and never sailed again.


I get it. My goal is functionality. I will copy the construction methods from the factory. If someone can build an interior that sails, I'm sure I can too. Every problem has a solution, it just depends on if your ego allows you to go with the correct version. The situation you describe usually comes from people who are determined to build something a certain way because that's what they know, not because it makes the most sense.


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## kjtnt (Mar 1, 2021)

Layla said:


> What about a wooden boat?
> A naive newbie question here, not a serious suggestion.


Good question. I don't see many for sale.


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## Layla (Feb 26, 2021)

capta said:


> ...Lovely, classy boats, but a real maintenance headache. It won't be too long before only the rich can afford wooden boats, IMO.


Maintenance... Yep! My uncle had a wooden dinghy when I was a kid - Not a sailboat, just a dinghy with a small inboard diesel. Every spring, he had to prepare the boat for the season, and of course, I was helping him. We had to get the boat out of the water, take the engine out, turn the boat around like a turtle, fill all the gaps and holes with cotton and some other substance that I had no idea what it was, and then sink the boat. After keeping the boat under water for a week or two, we had to get it out of the water, turn it around, smooth the edges of old holes, paint it, install the motor back in, and then it would be finally ready for the coming summer. Following year, we had to rewind and redo the same. Ah, I miss those days; I had no worries in my chest... Oh, God, I'm getting old. 
There was another hull material I had heard somewhere. It's like wood with layers, but not exactly. Supposively it didn't require any maintenance; I forgot what it was called. Yep, I'm officially old.


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## Layla (Feb 26, 2021)

kjtnt said:


> Good question. I don't see many for sale.


Sailboats for sale - YachtWorld
I have zero sailing experience, so I'd listen to others.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

kjtnt said:


> I am probably looking to have no more than $25k into it before I set sail.


I really don't mean to burst your bubble, but if you are talking about $25k all in -- buying the boat, doing needed repairs, and outfitting it for sailing across oceans -- that's just not realistic. For example, I just did a quick check of Yachtworld. The very cheapest Hunter 40 is listed at $23k. It would probably need another $20k, at a bare minimum, to get it ready for serious cruising, and more than that for crossing oceans.

Again, don't mean to be a debbie-downer, but I think you are going to need to adjust your expectations.

Good luck, whatever you do.


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## Layla (Feb 26, 2021)

capta said:


> There are a lot of sad stories in this game.
> While in Fiji, a family was headed to Suva from Tonga. After working their way through the Laus, between the two, the parents found themselves totally exhausted, but with clear water ahead to Suva. They put their ten year old daughter on the helm and told her to steer for the lighthouse about 25 miles ahead. They overslept and were woken by a horrendous crash and water entering the boat in large quantities. The dad ran up on deck to chastise his kid for some mistake, but stopped as he realized the bowsprit was pointed directly at the light house from his broken boat on the reef!
> A lot of people on here take my comments as negative and discouraging, but my intent is to save those who will listen, from many of these simply made mistakes.


So what happens at the end of the story? Did they survive?


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

denverd0n said:


> I really don't mean to burst your bubble, but if you are talking about $25k all in -- buying the boat, doing needed repairs, and outfitting it for sailing across oceans -- that's just not realistic. For example, I just did a quick check of Yachtworld. The very cheapest Hunter 40 is listed at $23k. It would probably need another $20k, at a bare minimum, to get it ready for serious cruising, and more than that for crossing oceans.
> 
> Again, don't mean to be a debbie-downer, but I think you are going to need to adjust your expectations.
> 
> Good luck, whatever you do.


But if the prep is a multi year project..... I would thing 3 minimum... you can building kitty up bigger as you spend some of it on prep.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

kjtnt said:


> I get it. My goal is functionality. I will copy the construction methods from the factory. If someone can build an interior that sails, I'm sure I can too. Every problem has a solution, it just depends on if your ego allows you to go with the correct version. The situation you describe usually comes from people who are determined to build something a certain way because that's what they know, not because it makes the most sense.


The longer you are around boats, the more things that don't make sense you are going to find, even on the most reputable brands.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Layla said:


> So what happens at the end of the story? Did they survive?


Oh yeah, they were hard aground and not in any danger. Lost their boat and most of their possessions. Flew home and never heard from them again.
Before the internet, traveling friends were lost, sometimes forever, as there was just no way to keep in contact. Occasionally, they appeared in a harbor or anchorage and it was just like finding long lost friends. Well, I guess it *was* finding long lost friends. lol


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## kjtnt (Mar 1, 2021)

denverd0n said:


> I really don't mean to burst your bubble, but if you are talking about $25k all in -- buying the boat, doing needed repairs, and outfitting it for sailing across oceans -- that's just not realistic. For example, I just did a quick check of Yachtworld. The very cheapest Hunter 40 is listed at $23k. It would probably need another $20k, at a bare minimum, to get it ready for serious cruising, and more than that for crossing oceans.
> 
> Again, don't mean to be a debbie-downer, but I think you are going to need to adjust your expectations.
> 
> Good luck, whatever you do.


There is one here in Wilmington, already stripped with a good motor and sails I looked at this weekend, I might be able to get for $10k, and another one with better bones for around $14k. It's a tight budget though, but I'm thrifty and creative. I don't mean that I could take it across the Atlantic for that money, but I do think I could get a bed and a head working, make it semi livable and seaworthy to sail it to the Bahamas in that price range. I will be working, and it costs me a lot to live anywhere and to own a regular home for that matter. I found a live aboard community in FL with a pool, laundry, showers, pump out etc, for 1k a month including water electric and internet - and I can fish off my patio. That's less than I pay where I'm at, and the view here sucks in comparison.


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## Layla (Feb 26, 2021)

capta said:


> Oh yeah, they were hard aground and not in any danger. Lost their boat and most of their possessions. Flew home and never heard from them again.
> Before the internet, traveling friends were lost, sometimes forever, as there was just no way to keep in contact. Occasionally, they appeared in a harbor or anchorage and it was just like finding long lost friends. Well, I guess it *was* finding long lost friends. lol


Glad they were able to walk away from the wreck, but still, it's a crazy story.
I'm a lost case too, never grown interest into social networking. I've never wondered what old friends been doing.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Welcome to SailNut!

Ask questions and you will get conflicting opinions from lots of members here. With time and experience you will learn which opinions are useful to you.


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## Layla (Feb 26, 2021)

capta said:


> Oh yeah, they were hard aground and not in any danger. Lost their boat and most of their possessions. Flew home and never heard from them again.


I've heard an old tale as well.


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## JimInPB (Oct 5, 2020)

Layla said:


> What about a wooden boat?
> A naive newbie question here, not a serious suggestion.


I grew up on wooden boats. I have a fondness for them. Unfortunately, they tend to be much more maintenance intensive compared to almost any other type of boat.


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## JimInPB (Oct 5, 2020)

kjtnt said:


> There is one here in Wilmington, already stripped with a good motor and sails I looked at this weekend, I might be able to get for $10k, and another one with better bones for around $14k. It's a tight budget though, but I'm thrifty and creative. I don't mean that I could take it across the Atlantic for that money, but I do think I could get a bed and a head working, make it semi livable and seaworthy to sail it to the Bahamas in that price range. I will be working, and it costs me a lot to live anywhere and to own a regular home for that matter. I found a live aboard community in FL with a pool, laundry, showers, pump out etc, for 1k a month including water electric and internet - and I can fish off my patio. That's less than I pay where I'm at, and the view here sucks in comparison.


I'd be interested to know which live aboard community you are considering. I sometimes consider that option myself.

If you are willing to forego also having a house, then living on a boat becomes more of a financially viable option for many. There are significant downsides to consider. Hurricane season is one of them. Many insurance policies will require you to be far away from Florida & the Caribbean at that time of year. Regardless of insurance requirements, riding out a Cat 4 storm in a boat can be a life changing experience, for those who survive the event. It's not on my to-do list.

The Bahamas is only 60 miles from certain parts of Florida, but the Gulf stream is between the two. Crossing it can be a bit dicey for those who do not know what they are doing. I would suggest cruising the coast for a while before jumping over the stream.


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## Layla (Feb 26, 2021)

I think this was the word I was looking for.








Wood epoxy vs fiberglass comparison | Bedard Yacht Design


How does wood-epoxy compares to fiberglass in boat building. A real world comparison of price, strength and durabililty




www.bedardyachtdesign.com


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## Annapolitan (Feb 22, 2021)

Welcome from another new member. Enjoy the wealth of info and varied opinions and advice you'll get here, which is the true value of this form.

Annapolitan


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Layla said:


> Aw, maintenance... Yep! My uncle had a wooden dinghy when I was a kid - Not a sailboat, just a dinghy with a small inboard diesel. Every spring, he had to prepare the boat for the season, and of course, I was helping him. We had to get the boat out of the water, take the engine out, turn the boat around like a turtle, fill all the gaps and holes with cotton and some other substance that I had no idea what it was, and then sink the boat. After keeping the boat under water for a week or two, we had to get it out of the water, turn it around, smooth the edges of old holes, paint it, install the motor back in, and then it would be finally ready for the coming summer. Following year, we had to rewind and redo the same. Ah, I miss those days; I had no worries in my chest... Oh, God, I'm getting old.
> Do they do the same things with those big Gulets and such? That would be ridiculous...
> There was another hull material I had heard somewhere. It's like wood with layers, but not exactly. Supposively it didn't require any maintenance; I forgot what it was called. Yep, I'm officially old.


I bet that boat lasted 100 years or more. That is absolutely the best way to keep a wooden boat healthy; sink it for a week in salt water. Works great on little boats like that, but it is a bit more difficult on bigger boats with electric, tanks and other systems.


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## Layla (Feb 26, 2021)

capta said:


> I bet that boat lasted 100 years or more. That is absolutely the best way to keep a wooden boat healthy; sink it for a week in salt water. Works great on little boats like that, but it is a bit more difficult on bigger boats with electric, tanks and other systems.


A wooden dinghy with outboard engine must be even better.


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## Layla (Feb 26, 2021)

capta said:


> I bet that boat lasted 100 years or more. That is absolutely the best way to keep a wooden boat healthy; sink it for a week in salt water. Works great on little boats like that, but it is a bit more difficult on bigger boats with electric, tanks and other systems.


It was almost surreal to examine the wood leisurely but determinedly expand and close the holes and cracks in only a few days, a slow but satisfying progress to watch. I forgot to mention the sanding of the old paint before the painting business. Actually, it's a pretty cheap maintenance procedure. If you can afford the paint, then you can afford the nurturing of a wooden dinghy; makes me wanna buy a full keel wooden sailing dinghy without an engine. I think I could easily maintain that kinda thing. Also, I remember how therapeutic it was to work on that old wooden boat.


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## JimInPB (Oct 5, 2020)

A Beetle Cat is a small wooden sailboat that many people have learned on. 


https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/beetle-cat










Beetle Cat - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org









Beetle Boat Shop – Beetlecat.com







beetlecat.com


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## Layla (Feb 26, 2021)

JimInPB said:


> A Beetle Cat is a small wooden sailboat that many people have ...


Good looking boat!


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Layla said:


> A wooden dinghy with outboard engine must be even better.


I gave up on hard dinks almost half a century ago. Too hard on the topsides of the big boat and really not stable enough for landlubbers to do well in. I'm no fan of RIBs, preferring high quality inflatables like our Zodiac Mark I Classic. And it can carry a huge load.


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## Layla (Feb 26, 2021)

capta said:


> I gave up on hard dinks almost half a century ago. Too hard on the topsides of the big boat and really not stable enough for landlubbers to do well in...


Well said...
I was talking about a boat to use independently, not as a dinghy on a big sailboat.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

capta said:


> gave up on hard dinks almost half a century ago. Too hard on the topsides of the big boat and really not stable enough for landlubbers to do well in. I'm no fan of RIBs, preferring high quality inflatables like our Zodiac Mark I Classic. And it can carry a huge load.


I don't get the distinction. Isn't your zodiac considered a Rigid Inflatable Boat (RIB)?


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

JimInPB said:


> A Beetle Cat is a small wooden sailboat that many people have learned on.


I decided that I-am-GOING-to-buy-one-of-these-boats, but then I saw that the price is not that much less than what I just paid for my Bristol 35.5.

And the used ones are more!






Beetle Boat Shop – Beetlecat.com







beetlecat.com


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## Layla (Feb 26, 2021)

midwesterner said:


> I decided that I-am-GOING-to-buy-one-of-these-boats, but then I saw that the price is not that much less than what I just paid for my Bristol 35.5.
> 
> And the used ones are more!
> 
> ...


beetle 14 starts at $43k...


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## Layla (Feb 26, 2021)

midwesterner said:


> I decided that I-am-GOING-to-buy-one-of-these-boats, but then I saw that the price is not that much less than what I just paid for my Bristol 35.5.
> 
> And the used ones are more!


even used they want too much.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

midwesterner said:


> I don't get the distinction. Isn't your zodiac considered a Rigid Inflatable Boat (RIB)?


no. it has no hard bottom, only an inflatable keel.


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## JimInPB (Oct 5, 2020)

Layla said:


> beetle 14 starts at $43k...


I've seen them used for under $5k. Then again, I've seen a well used J-24 for similar money.


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## Layla (Feb 26, 2021)

JimInPB said:


> I've seen them used for under $5k. Then again, I've seen a well used J-24 for similar money.


Yep, probably, J-24 would be a better choice.


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