# Sloop or Ketch?



## maxheadspace (Jul 22, 2007)

Am looking at getting into sailing. I've found both sloops and ketches in the size/price that I'm looking at. My intended use is coastal cruising, possibly the islands. What are the pros and cons for these two types? I'm fairly new to sailing, so this will be my first boat. Suggestions?

Thanks!
Max.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Max,

welcome to sailnet.

If you are getting into it now, and have never sailed before, or sailed only a few times, don't you thinks it would be better to get lessons first, see how you like to sail and if YOU like to sail first, then worry about what type of rig you should buy??

But a sloop would easier to sail.

Welcome once again. Please ignore a few of ther guys here,namely:

Sailingdog, Camaraderie, Cruisingdad, sailortjk1,bestfriend,joel73,sailaway21,ianhlnd,trueblue,hellosailor,t34c,tartan34,faster, pbzeer (specially him), and more.....
they will take your photo and photoshop you to humiliation...believe me


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

A ketch is complicated in some senses and easier than others. Its prime purpose is for reaching and running, and it is appropriate for long-term voyaging with short-handed crew, because the sailplan is spread out, and the masts can be shorter and can carry individually less sail area than would be, for instance, on a sloop of comparable waterline length. They are also easier to balance in the sense that a staysail and a reefed mizzen can drive a boat in fairly bad conditions but under reasonable control. 

The downside is that it takes time to learn how to handle those four typical sails (you could have a mizzen staysail and a spinnaker, as well), and there is added complexity, more winches, more gear and more weight aloft (As an aside, triatic stays are idiotic). A sloop is faster in lighter air, generally, and can generally point higher due to the larger jib.

I would say if you are new to sailing, crew on a sloop and see if you can cruise as crew on a ketch (few ketches race these days). A ketch is a big commitment (they tend to be bigger boats), and I would hate to see you disappointed if you just wanted a "fun" boat. A ketch can be a lot of fun, but they aren't really sport boats.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Max...As you can see, I own a ketch but all my previous boats were sloops. 
I think that up to a certain size, a sloop is both easier to deal with and sails more efficiently to windward. 
Once you get into larger boats...splitting up the sails makes a difference in how strong you need to be...and gives you more choices in balancing the boat in heavy weather. In practice...the mizzen is virtually self tending, but there is a little adjusting and certainly hoisting and dousing to deal with. 
For us...the big advantage to having a ketch rig was that it reduced the height of the main mast so we can get under the ICW bridges. The sloop version of my boat cannot. 
Bottom line: Up to about 40 feet get a sloop unless you just want to be jaunty looking! 40-45'...your choice based on windward ability vs. handling tradeoffs...45'+...consider a ketch unless you have plenty of crew and like to go a couple of tenths of a knot faster to windward.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Max-

It would help if you said what size range of boats you're looking at. Ketches, as long-distance cruisers, also have some advantages in the larger sizes in that the sails are lighter and smaller than a sloop of comparable size, and the mizzen mast makes for a good wind-generator or radar mast.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

camaraderie said:


> Bottom line: Up to about 40 feet get a sloop unless you just want to be jaunty looking! 40-45'...your choice based on windward ability vs. handling tradeoffs...45'+...consider a ketch unless you have plenty of crew and like to go a couple of tenths of a knot faster to windward.


Is a few tenths of a knot really the only difference? I was lead to understand that ketches were (generally) worse to windward than that, compared to sloops.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

They don't point as well, either. Generally, pointing ability goes this way: sloop, cutter, ketch, schooner. That's why you'll see ketches (when you do see them) on passage rather than racing around the buoys).

I like ketches a lot, but they are specialized equipment. A sloop is more generalized. On a reach in a tradewind, I'll take the ketch...it will likely be faster if all else is equal because it can set a great deal more sail. If you've ever seen a ketch with a fisherman's, a mizzen staysail and all other sail set, you'll see why it's liable to outrun a sloop.

Ah, here's one: A big ketch with furled staysail and jib, but with Code Zero, full main and mizzen and mizzen staysail (you can also fly a mizzen spinnaker)


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Hello Maxheadspace:

Welcome aboard. I think that Alex (Guilietta) hit the nail on the head when he said, get out there and learn to sail and you will develop your own preferences and tastes in rigs. I have attached a draft of an article that I wrote for another venue that has been posted here many times before but which should prove helpful in explaining the various rigs. 

Respectfully,
Jeff

_"The next topic in our ongoing discussion on selecting the ideal boat is rigs. Like most of the topics to date, there is no single universally 'right answer' when it comes to the topic of rigs. Boats are designed as systems and each of the various rig types have their purpose and are best suited to particular hull types, and applications. The quality of the design is also important as a poorly designed rig of any type can make for a miserable sailing vessel that is hard on the crew and the boat alike. _

_Cutter and Sloop rig_

_These are the most common rigs being produced today. In current usage these terms are applied quite loosely as compared to their more traditional definitions. Traditionally the sloop rig was a rig with a single mast located forward of 50% of the length of the sailplan. In this traditional definition a sloop could have multiple jibs. Cutters had a rig with a single mast located 50% of the length of the sailplan or further aft, multiple headsails and in older definitions, a reefing bowsprit (a bowsprit that could be withdrawn in heavy going). Somewhere in the 1950's or 1960's there was a shift in these definitions such that a sloop only flew one headsail and a cutter had multiple headsails and mast position became irrelevant. For the sake of this discussion I assume we are discussing the modern definition of a sloop and a cutter._

_Historically, when sail handling hardware was primitive and sails were far more stretchy than they are today, the smaller headsails and mainsail of a traditional cutter were easier to handle and with less sail stretch, allowed earlier cutters to be more weatherly (sail closer to the wind) than the sloops of the day. With the invention of lower stretch sailcloth and geared winches, cutters quickly lost their earlier advantage. _

_Today sloops are generally closer winded and easier to handle. Their smaller jibs and larger mainsail sailplan are easier to power up and down. Without a jibstay to drag the Genoa across, sloops are generally easier to tack. With less hardware sloops are less expensive to build. _

_Sloops come in a couple varieties, masthead and fractional. In a masthead rig the forestay and jib originates at the masthead. In a fractional rig, the forestay originated some fraction of the mast height down from the masthead. Historically, sloops were traditionally fractionally rigged. Fractional rigs tend to give the most drive per square foot of sail area. Their smaller jibs are easier to tack and they reef down to a snug masthead rig. Today they are often proportioned so that they do not need overlapping headsails, making them even easier to sail. One of the major advantages of a fractional rigs is the ability when combined with a flexible mast, is the ability to use the backstay to control mast bend. Increasing backstay tension does a lot of things on a fractional rig: it tensions the forestay flattening the jib, and induces mast bend, which flattens the mainsail and opens the leech of the sail. This allows quick depowering as the wind increases and allows a fractional rig to sail in a wider wind speed range than masthead rig without reefing, although arguably requiring a bit more sail trimming skills. _

_While fractional rigs used to require running backstays, better materials and design approaches have pretty much eliminated the need for running backstays. That said, fractional rigs intended for offshore use, will often have running backstays that are only rigged in heavy weather once the mainsail has been reefed. The geometry of these running backstays typically allows the boat to be tacked without tacking the running backstays. _

_Masthead rigs came into popularity in the 1950's primarily in response to racing rating rules that under-penalized jibs and spinnakers and so promoted bigger headsails. Masthead sloops tend to be simpler rigs to build and adjust. They tend to be more dependent on large headsails and so are harder to tack and also require a larger headsail inventory if performance is important. Mast bend is harder to control and so bigger masthead rigs will often have a babystay that can be tensioned to induce mast bend in the same way as a fractional rig does. Dragging a Genoa over the babystay makes tacking a bit more difficult and slower. While roller furling allows a wider wind range for a given Genoa, there is a real limit (typically cited 10% to 15%) to how much a Genoa can be roller furled and still maintain a safely flat shape. _

_Cutters, which had pretty much dropped out of popularity during a period from the end of WWII until the early 1970's, came back into popularity with a vengeance in the early 1970's as an offshore cruising rig. In theory, the presence of multiple jibs allows the forestaysail to be dropped or completely furled, and when combined with a reefed mainsail, and the full staysail, results in a very compact heavy weather rig (similar to the proportions of a fractional rigged sloop with a reef in the mainsail). As a result the cutter rig is often cited as the ideal offshore rig. While that is the theory, it rarely works out that the staysail is properly proportioned, (either too small for normal sailing needs and for the lower end of the high wind range (say 20-30 knots) or too large for higher windspeeds) and of a sail cloth that makes sense as a heavy weather sail or which is too heavy for day to day sailing in more moderate conditions. Also when these sails are proportioned small enough to be used as heavy weather sails, these rigs will often develop a lot of weather helm when being sailed in winds that are too slow to use a double reefed mainsail. Like fractional rigs, cutter rigs intended for offshore use, will often have running backstays that are only rigged in heavy weather once the mainsail has been reefed. Unlike the fractional rig, the geometry of these running backstays typically requires that the running backstays be tacked whenever the boat is tacked. _

_Cutters make a less successful rig for coastal sailing. Generally cutters tend to have snug rigs that depend on larger Genoas for light air performance. Tacking these large Genoas through the narrow slot between the jibstay and forestay is a much harder operation than tacking a sloop. As a result many of today's cutters have a removable jibstay that can be rigged in heavier winds. This somewhat reduces the advantage of a cutter rig (i.e. having a permanently rigged and ready to fly small, heavy weather jib). _

_Cutters these days generally do not point as close to the wind as similar sized sloops. Because of the need to keep the slots of both headsails open enough to permit good airflow, the headsails on a cutter cannot be sheeted as tightly as the jib on a sloop without choking off the airflow in the slot. Since cutters are generally associated with the less efficient underbodies that are typical of offshore boats this is less of a problem that it might sound. Cutters also give away some performance on deep broad reaches and when heading downwind because the Genoa acts in the bad air of the staysail. _

_Yawls and Ketches:_

_As I said at the start of this discussion, boats are systems and when it comes to one size fits all answers, there is no single right answer when it comes to yawls and ketches either. A Yawl is a rig with two masts and the after mast (the mast that is further aft or further back in the boat) is aft of the rudder. A ketch is a rig with two masts, the after mast is forward of the rudder. Either rig can have either a single jib or multiple jibs. When a Yawl or a Ketch has multiple jibs it is referred to a Yawl or a Ketch with multiple headsails. It is considered lubberly to refer to that rig as a 'cutter ketch' or 'cutter Yawl'. _

_I lump yawls and ketches together here because the share many similar characteristics. Ketches, in one form or another, have been around for a very long time. In the days before winches, light weight- low stretch sail cloth, high strength- low stretch line, and low friction blocks, breaking a rig into a lot of smaller sails made sense. It made it easier to manhandle the sails and make adjustments. Stretch was minimized so the sails powered up less in a gust and although multiple small sails are less efficient, the hulls were so inefficient that the loss of sail efficiency did not hurt much. Multiple masts, along with bowsprits and boomkins, allowed boats to have more sail area that would be spread out closer to the water. In a time of stone internal ballasting, and high drag in relatinship to stability, this was important as it maximized the amount of drive while minimizing heeling. In theory, multiple masts meant more luff length and more luff length meant more drive forces to windward. But multiple masts also meant more weight and much more drag. There are also issues of down draft interference, meaning that one sail is operating in the disturbed and turbulent air of the sails in front of it, which also greatly reduces the efficiency of multi mast rigs. _

_Yawls really came into being as race rule beaters. They are first seen in the 1920's as a rule beater under the Universal and International rules. They continued to be popular under the CCA rule as well. Under these rules, the sail area of jibs and mizzens were pretty much ignored in the rating. This popularized the masthead rig and the yawl. _

_There was a basis for not measuring the sail area of a yawl under these rules. On a yawl going to windward, the mizzenmast and sail generally actually produce more drag than they do drive. This is because the mizzen is sailing in really turbulent air and has to be over trimmed to keep from luffing which can effectively act as an airbrake. This is slightly less of the case on a ketch where the size of the mizzen is large enough to provide a larger percentage of the drive. _

_Downwind mizzens also are a problem. In this case the mizzen is forcing the main or foresail to operate in their bad air and so again the mizzen is not adding as much to the speed of the boat as they are taking away. BUT in the predominantly reaching races that were typical of offshore races of that era they offered a number of advantages. First of all on a reach the sails are not acting in the slipstream of each other and so each contributes a fair amount of drive for the drag produced. Also with the advent of lightweight low stretch sailcloths, mizzen staysails, which are great reaching sails, came into widespread usage in racing. Here again a ketch has the advantage of having a taller mizzen and so can fly a bigger mizzen staysail. _

_It might be helpful to compare yawl and ketch rigs to sloops. The broad generalities are that for a given sail area a sloop rig will generate a greater drive for the amount of drag generated pretty much on all points of sail. That means that a sloop will be faster or will require less sail area to go the same speed. Sloops are particularly better than Multi spar rigs such as Yawls and Ketches on a beat or on a run. A sloop rig would tend to be taller for a given sail area. This means it would be better in lighter air but it potentially might heel more, or need to be depowered or reefed sooner as the breeze picks up. _

_Sloops work best on boats with reasonably modern underbodies. Both are more efficient and so can point higher and make less leeway. _

_Ketch and Yawl rigs work best with heavier boats with less efficient underbodies such as full keels and deeply Vee'd hull forms. These hull forms often need a lot more drive and the hull is the limiting factor in how fast or how close-winded the boat will be. The yawl or ketch rig's lack of windward ability is less of a liability when placed on a hull that similarly lacks windward ability. Also, the ability of a ketch or yawl to carry more sail with less heeling moment also makes it a natural for a heavier hull form which often has comparatively little stability when compared to the amount of drive required to make a heavy boat move. _

_Much is made of the ketch or yawl's ability to be balanced to help with self-steering, to hove to, or the ability to simply sail under Jib and mizzen in a blow. This is one aspect that a traditional ketch or yawl has over a traditional sloop. It is not so true of modern sloops. Modern (especially fractional) sloops can be easily depowered and that reduces the need to reef. With modern slab reefing gear, reefing is far more easily accomplished than dropping the mainsail to the deck on a yawl or ketch. In a properly designed sloop balance is just not all that hard to achieve. _

_The performance of all three rigs, both on broad reaches and in lighter air, can be improved by the ability to carry kites of different types. _

_In terms of comfort at sea, ketch and yawl rigs push the weight of the spars closer to the ends of the boat which can increase pitch angles, albeit, while perhaps slowing pitching rates. The taller rigs of a sloop tend to increase roll angles while slowing roll rates. _

_Then there are structural issues. It is often difficult to properly stay a ketch or yawl rig as the mainmast backstay often need to be routed around the mizzen and the forward load component of the mizzen if often taken by the top of the mainmast. It is also often difficult to get proper aft staying on the mizzen of a ketch or yawl as well. These structural issues are particularly pronounced on Yawls where the mast is so far aft in the boat that on a traditional boat it is hard to get adequate staying base widths. _

_Many of the early fiberglass yawls were very poorly engineered. I heard the story of how the Bristol 40 became a yawl. It seems that Clint Pearson (who owned Bristol) had started to build a Bristol 40 sloop on order for a particular customer. As the boat was nearing completion the prospective owner bailed out leaving Mr. Pearson with bit of a problem. Almost at the same time came an enquiry about the availability of a Bristol 40 yawl for prompt delivery for a different person. Without hesitation the potential buyer was told that they happened to have a yawl that was almost finished and would be available in a few weeks. Bristol was building a 24 foot Corsair and they took a mast and rigging from a Corsair and used that for the mizzen. A block of wood was glassed onto the hull for a mast step and a hole cut in the deck for the mast to go through and Voila- the Bristol 40 yawl. Several more were built like that and they quickly proved problematic. Eventually the design was engineered to solve the problems that occurred on the first few yawls. _

_You often hear people say that yawls and ketches are simpler rigs to handle. I am not clear why that is assumed to be so as there are more sails to trim and more interaction between the individual sails. As on a sloop, you start trimming from the forward most sail moving aft. Also as on a sloop, fine tuning, small adjustments are made moving forward again to reduce downdraft interference between the sails. Sailed with the same degree of precision, a ketches and yawls require more fine tunning than a sloop but on the whole about the same amount of fine tuning as a cutter. _

_Anyway, in conclusion, if you are interested in sailing performance or ease of handling, a sloop rig makes more sense. To me the only justification for the yawl rig today is solely romantic charm, or a sense of history. I do not mean this to be a put down to those who love historic rigs, but for sheer sailing ability a yawl or ketch is a relic of another time, or an obsolete racing rule. Still, if you live in an area that is typically windier and you like traditional boats, then a ketch or yawl is an interesting albeit complicated rig. _

_Schooners_

_Schooners, more than any of the other fore and aft rigs, are really a series of rigs. They vary from the modern unstayed cat schooners (like the Freedom 39), to Fenger's experiments with wishbone schooners, to the traditional two-masted gaff schooners, to the early 19th century square topsail schooners, to the knockabout and the staysail schooners of the late 1930's, to the 4, 5 and 6 masted cargo schooners of the early 20th century. Each of these has distinct advantages and disadvantages. _

_By definition a schooner is a rig with two or more masts with the after mast(s) equal or taller than the forward mast(s). _

_Schooners, in one form or another, have been around for a very long time. Like most multi-masted rigs, they evolved in the days when breaking a rig into a lot of smaller sails made sense. Multi-masted rigs resulted in a rig with a greater number of smaller low aspect ratio sails. These proportionately smaller sails reduced stretch within the individual sails, made it easier to manhandle the sails and make sail shape adjustments. This was a time before winches, light weight- low stretch sailcloth, high strength- low stretch line, and low friction blocks. These proportionately smaller sails powered up less in a gust. While multiple small sails are less efficient, the hulls of the era were so inefficient that this loss of sail efficiency did not hurt much. _

_Multiple masts, along with bowsprits and boomkins, allowed boats to have more sail area that could be spread out closer to the water. In a time when stone internal ballasting was the norm, this was important as it maximized the amount of drive while minimizing heeling moments. Multiple masts meant more a little more luff length and more luff length meant greater drive force on a reach or beat. But multiple masts also meant more weight aloft and much more aerodynamic drag increasing heel some and greatly reducing the relative efficiency of the sails. Multi mast rigs also have the issue of downdraft interference, meaning that each sail is operating in the disturbed and turbulent air of the sails upwind of it, which also greatly reduces the efficiency of multi mast rigs. ._

_Schooners are best suited for burdensome vessels with comparatively little stability. They are best used in sailing venues where they predominantly will be reaching between 30 degrees above a beam reach to approximately 50 degrees below a beam reach. Because of the geometry and inherently high drag of the schooner rig they are not very good rigs upwind or down. Upwind, the large amount of aerodynamic drag from the spars and, in stayed rigs, rigging, coupled with the typically low aspect ratio sails typical of a schooner rig, and the down-drafting problems of a multi-masted rig, results in very poor windward performance. When compared with Yawls, which can drop their mizzen when beating without much consequence, a Schooners primary drive sail(s) are acting in the wind shadow of the entire rig. _

_Probably the highest upwind efficiency is achieved in schooners with lug foresails. On a schooner, lug foresails are not actually 'lug rigged'. In the case or a schooner, the term 'lug foresail' means a gaff foresail (not a jib) that foresail that over laps the mainsail in much the same manner as a Genoa over laps the mast on a modern rig. This rig was common in American working craft in the 19th century partially because there was no boom to deal with on the working deck. It was used on such boats as the yacht America's original rig, Tancook Whalers and on many Atlantic coast pilot boats. Lug foresails need to be tacked around the mast in much the same manner as a Genoa is today. _

_Downwind the problem of downdraft interference is a major problem as well. The large mainsail again tends to block the air on the sails forward of it and schooners really do not have a tall forward mast on which to fly a meaningful spinnaker. While there are all kinds of kites that can be flown from a schooner, and early working schooners often carried square sails on their foremasts, most of these patches really come into their own on a reach. _

_I once had a great conversation with Olin Stephens about schooners. Someone had asked why the schooner rig had died out. In the course of the conversation it was pretty much concluded that as hull forms became increasingly efficient, the schooner rig could not keep up. Great efforts at all kinds of rig improvements were tried but in the end the inherent limitations of the schooner rig was ill matched to the improved hull forms of the early 20th century._

_Today, traditional schooners are wonderful to look at relics of a bygone age. Traditional forms of the schooner rig are complicated rigs that are expensive to build and maintain. They generally lack the strength of staying of a more modern rig. They are limited in their ability to beat to windward, hove to, or go dead downwind. They require greater skill to sail well and are pretty labor intensive to sail in shifting conditions. Still there is nothing like the romance of gaff topsail schooner with a bone in her teeth. " _


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## maxheadspace (Jul 22, 2007)

Many thanks for the detailed explanations. I have taken lessons, up in Newport, but it was all on small sloops. Didn't do a lot of sailing, but enough to know I enjoy it. As for crewing for others for a while before making up my mind, there is a time element involved. Am in the process of a divorce and am looking to do a live-aboard while I wait to get equity out of my house for future domicile purchase. There is a relatively small window of opportunity before I have to either sign an apartment lease or buy a boat. Would much rather have the boat (my wife hated the idea of a sailboat, so maybe the divorce is a blessing!). Living in Annapolis, there are a lot of boats to choose from, mostly ketches and sloops, hence my question. I'm looking at boats around 40 feet in length. Your answers help immensley. 

Thanks a million!
Max


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

If you are going to live and sail on the Chesapeake, then you will want a sloop with generous sail area. 

Jeff


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

Go rent a boat for a week to find out if it suits you. There are charter companies that will rent a boat muck like a motel room with the condition that the boat stay at the dock. Living on a boat is not the same lifestyle as living in even a tiny apartment. Picture the tinyest motel room you have ever seen and cut that in half. add to that showering in a public shower at the marina. Of course you could maintain your membership at the gym and wonder whether Bruno the body builder is checking out your sweet ass or not. Then there is the food thing. I barbequed alot, against marina rules at many marinas. You will sleep better with the constant rocking though. As for dates, well most women look at a guy that lives on a boat just one step above trailor trash (though both trailor trash and boat dwellers get unfair rap). All in all it was great fun for me.... when I moved back to a house.
Good Luck!
pigslo


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## cjmcfall (May 30, 2007)

Pigslo,

I don't really agree with the part about the ladies! I have lived aboard on two different occasions and they seem to really dig it. Maybe being in my twenties helps that situation though.


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

It's the stench from the head. My youngest daughter parked a soup can-sized lunker in there a couple of months ago, and it hasn't smelled the same since. Yesterday I discovered the joker valve leaks a bit when I pump, and now I'm downright afraid to do any maintenance.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Please, what is a soup can-sized lunker?


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Giu,
It's a turd with the approximate dimensions of a soup can -- about 5 inches long, 3 inches wide. I would convert it to metric for you, but I don't know how.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Another stimulating sloop/ketch discussion gone to crap . . . ketch yawl later. < G >


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Here ya go...
http://www.seoconsultants.com/charts/inches-decimal/


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

My avatar is a picture of her pushing it out. For a second there I thought I was a grandpa.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I am not so computer literate or literate at all as far as that goes but hope there is some way to file this post to show your lovly daughter when she is about seventeen ha ha fair winds and foul smells


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Conrad,
I'd better get started now on deleting my posts...


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> Please, what is a soup can-sized lunker?


Alex, I didn't know, either.

Unfortunately, I guessed correctly. Does Portuguese have one hundred euphemisms for ****? English certainly does.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

OK... the word in Portuguese is Merda (****), but he called his daughters turd a "soup can-sized lunker"..

Why you may ask I could not add two and two together?? Because we don't have caned soup (there is but no one buys), in Portugal (or any other Southern Europe Country around here with proper gastronomical traditions), where canned soup or old soup is not apprerciated.

Merda:

Caca
Cagalhão
Poia
Cócó
Caganeira
Fezes


are the only I could remember now.....


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Isn't she adorable? Her eyes scrunched up like little fists... God, it makes me miss her...


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## ReverendMike (Aug 1, 2006)

Yet another thread gone to crap


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

At first I was a disbeliever in sailhog's bragging rights over the dimensional qualities of his daughter's lunker. 

This is because, even though we (like Giu) have little use for canned soup in our food locker, at times when the wind's blowin' like snot, it's more convenient to open a can of Progresso soup, then to simmer stock for 4 hours. Progresso is edible under these conditions.

For Giu's sake, lets say a can of Progresso has a diameter of about 4-1/2" to 5" . . . that's an elephant lunker! 

Sailhog's locker must have that inedible Campbells Soup - in 3" cans . . . that's still huge, but a more credible lunker diameter.


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

My kids like Cambells "Goldfish" soup, so that's what I'm accustomed to. I was at once proud of her accomplishment, and a little concerned that I wasn't going to pass through the plumbing.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

sailhog said:


> Isn't she adorable? Her eyes scrunched up like little fists... God, it makes me miss her...


She bears a resemblance to my four-year-old niece Emily:


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> Sailhog's locker must have that inedible Campbells Soup - in 3" cans . . . that's still huge, but a more credible lunker diameter.


My wife agreed to buy our boat because of its Lavac vacuum head, the attributes of which include the ability to flush a pair of jeans down its ravenous gullet.

If anyone aboard ever has a bowel movement the size of a pair of jeans, I suspect we'll have a medical AND a plumbing emergency.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> Merda:
> 
> Caca
> Cagalhão
> ...


I seem to recall that it was the Spanish who were most concerned with sailing and ****ting, and in fact named one of their galleons "Fireshitter", probably in reference to the Spanish cuisine of the day, or the fact that their naval architects put the heads too close to the bow chasers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cacafuego


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Sailhog-

you should probably take the soup out of the can before feeding it to your kids.



sailhog said:


> My kids like Cambells "Goldfish" soup, so that's what I'm accustomed to. I was at once proud of her accomplishment, and a little concerned that I wasn't going to pass through the plumbing.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Sailhog-
> 
> you should probably take the soup out of the can before feeding it to your kids.


AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

HEY EVERY ONE......SD MADE A JOKE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Good one SD......


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Valiente said:


> I seem to recall that it was the Spanish who were most concerned with sailing and ****ting, and in fact named one of their galleons "Fireshitter", probably in reference to the Spanish cuisine of the day, or the fact that their naval architects put the heads too close to the bow chasers.


Oh yes, but the French had an obsession with bottom wiping - especially taunting French castle guards . . .​







French Guard​


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Giulietta said:


> Merda:
> 
> Caca
> 
> ....


Caca..... my favorite.


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Sailhog-
> 
> you should probably take the soup out of the can before feeding it to your kids.


Sailingdog,
God, this is embarrassing. I'm reading the label instructions on how to prepare the soup, and it says: "Place CONTENTS of can in a pot, add water..." I thought it read "Place can in a pot, add water..." This changes everything, because you're actually heating up the noodles WITHOUT THE CAN AROUND IT. This makes the whole meal a whole lot more digestible, because you don't have to deal with the metal casing. I've just got to slow down and read the instructions more carefullly from now on! This is what I love about these online forums...


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## Wannafish (Mar 25, 2004)

sailhog said:


> This changes everything, because you're actually heating up the noodles WITHOUT THE CAN AROUND IT. This makes the whole meal a whole lot more digestible, because you don't have to deal with the metal casing. ...


No! You need the metal casing...it's just like the casing on a weiner!


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

And remember that when you wash your hair to "rinse and repeat"
pigslo


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

pigslo said:


> And remember that when you wash your hair to "rinse and repeat"
> pigslo


When I take my next shower in October, you can bet I'm going to read the directions carefully. If it says to rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, and so and and so on, then that's what I'm going to do.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I would like to suggest that we all bow our heads and take a moment of silence in memory of this thread. When this thread was young, it served us all well, endeavoring to loyally provide useful information but as it grew older it became muddled and totally un-focused. Its sad to see a promising thread go bad at such a young age. I suggest that we should all remember and mourn this thread as it was in its youth before returning to the gratuitously scatlogical mutterings that it had become. 

Thank you all for coming......
Jeff


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

I am to blame! Apologies to all. Now back on thread...

Here on Hilton Head Island, you certainly see a great number of ketches moving up and down the ICW. Rarely, however, do they have their sails up. My guess is that their captains are a bit tired of dealing with them. Now I find this interesting, as you often hear folks say that large ketches are preferrable on the ICW BECAUSE OF BRIDGE clearance. Very ironic, I think.


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## Wannafish (Mar 25, 2004)

Maybe I should change my name to Doctor Death...Looks like I helped kill another one. 

Perhaps I should stick to reading, as opposed to responding.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Go away or I shall taunt you a second time​


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

TrueBlue,
I see your point, but a sloop is going to point up better. I don't see why you're being so defensive. Come down from your castle wall, take off your armor, and just talk to us.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Watch where you point that sloop you swine, or I shall skewer you with my mizzen.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

*AND NOW....SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT*

Is that a Norwegian Blue Parrot???

Jeff???????????????....is that you???? What happened?? eat too many canned soup???     

I know....woke up in wrong side of bed....


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I'm just angry because Jeff beat me to it, with his first post in this thread. He took almost the exact wording from a long post I was composing.


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> Watch where you point that sloop you swine, or I shall skewer you with my mizzen.


That's my bowsprit. I'll be sure to keep it clear of your stern.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Alex, That be me, I just could not resist....Once and a while I need to prove that my humor-ecktomy was not sccessful. 

TB That last one was my third post in this thread. 

Besides what's wrong with canned soup? 

Jeff


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