# beach cat to pocket cruiser



## s_ruffner (Aug 5, 2019)

I'm not an entirely new sailor, but I'm only really venturing into the world of monohull cruisers now for the first time. I've been sailing a Prindle 18 on and off for nearly four decades, and now that we're sailing as a family, we'd like to start making multi-day coastal cruises, rather than just horsing around for a few hours in the waves. I've just completed the ASA101, and am going to try to get the ASA103 in shortly, so that I will be able to charter boats larger than 22' day sailers. My wife has just completed the "learn to sail" and we're hoping to spend a fair bit of time in the Chesapeake later this season and next, getting our sea legs (along with our four year old son).


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

There is no real difference between sailing a P18 and a mono hull pocket cruiser, except the mono will feel like its permanently stuck in low gear 

I would try and find something in really good shape because fixing boats isn't all that much fun, at least it isn't for me. Newish to new outboard. (I am assuming outboard because pocket cruiser, but if not, disregard).

Aside from maintenance and sailing, its mostly just navigation, navigation just takes practice. If you start out with a good voyage plan before you ever leave the dock, that should minimise improvisation on the water


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

We bought our first sailboat (26' fixed keel) when our son was 3, and he's now age 10 and now has many hours on the water. Best advice I can give you for getting started is to make it fun and don't worry about getting in a lot of sailing miles for a couple years. Some kids have more tolerance and interest in the actual sailing and getting to new destinations but most don't really care until they are older, and instead will get bored with hours and hours of sailing, or freaked out if conditions deteriorate.

So when our son was young, we spent a lot of time within a couple miles of our mooring, maybe sailing for an hour or two when the wind was right, and spending more time anchored for swimming, fishing, playing games, having meals, and just spending time as a family. Reality is that the days when the wind blows that perfect steady 10 knots all day with the sun shining, are pretty few and far between. Take advantage of those days when they occur, but be prepared to make use of the boat as a family in lots of conditions, which may mean not really going anywhere. The key is to make the boat something everyone wants to do every weekend, or else you won't be able to justify the time and expense of using it.


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## s_ruffner (Aug 5, 2019)

Arcb said:


> There is no real difference between sailing a P18 and a mono hull pocket cruiser, except the mono will feel like its permanently stuck in low gear


Heh...yeah, I was expecting this, but it was indeed an eye opener...the boat barely moved with 5kts...the Prindle scoots right along, so long as there is nearly any breeze. I suppose it's the difference between 335lbs of displacement and 2800...I also find it vaguely unsettling to "trust" that I won't capsize the thing...but, given time I'm sure I'll get over it. Got a few nice gusts, and spent some time running with the water at the gunwales.



caberg said:


> Best advice I can give you for getting started is to make it fun and don't worry about getting in a lot of sailing miles for a couple years. Some kids have more tolerance and interest in the actual sailing and getting to new destinations but most don't really care until they are older, and instead will get bored with hours and hours of sailing, or freaked out if conditions deteriorate.


Indeed! I noticed this already. I am looking for something with tanks, a simple galley and a head. I was pleasantly surprised by how roomy the 22' was, but I really think we will need|want a head and a sink (at a minimum) to comfortably sail short distances and then "boat camp" (gunkholing), which is the main near-term objective. If we can use the boat as a kind of weekend RV for fishing, swimming, etc., on the Chesapeake Bay (which is plenty large enough to explore for a while), then we'll be accomplishing the object of this switch. I do hope that in a few years (certainly by age 10) my son will enjoy the thrill enough to have some fun on the catamaran.

I'm not super-concerned about engine maintenance - I've been working on small engines and larger engines since I was a teenager, and I've rebuilt a few two and four stroke engines. Given that we'll really be doing a lot of coastal cruising - by which I mean: within view of the shore and navigation aids - I expect to be able to work up to the navigation part of this gradually, but I'll be doing the 103 and 104, so I expect to pick up a bit more there. I will certainly get ahold of a decent GPS!

What I do worry about - since we're going to go with a very used boat - are things like delamination, rotted keel bolts and flexing keels. Ragged out sails come to mind as well.

Anyway, for the moment, a few more trips on the C22 Capri to get my wife and son a little more comfortable, and in the meantime, I'm exploring marinas which are a reasonable drive from home for us. Just wanted to drop in and say hello!


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

If you want to save a few bucks in the GPS department, you could probably get away with a cell phone app for the type of useage you are describing. 

Navionics/Boating HD costs about $30/year for android or iphone vs hundreds to $1k+ for a dedicated GPS with echarts.


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## whai repo (Aug 5, 2019)

My background is sailing Hobie 18's and I bought my first pocket cruiser 18 months ago. I ended up going with a trimaran as I found a good deal on a Corsair Sprint 750. I'd actually prefer a Dash or more typical F-24 with a little more cabin room and less spartan interior, but its still a nice, stable pocket cruiser, especially for someone used to multis. I really like it because I feel comfortable transiting the gulf here in Auckland, but its easy to put on a trailer and drive hours away.


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## nickmerc (Nov 2, 2008)

I sailed Hobie 16's and 18's for several years before switching to a mono slug. When my wife got pregnant she made me sell the Hobies (as expected). Surprisingly she told me to buy a bigger boat so we could take the baby sailing. Like the dutiful husband I was I said "Yes, Dear". We bought a Pearson 30. It was a good price, has a decent turn of speed for a mid '70's racer cruiser, was easy to singlehand and had plenty of room below for all of the kid stuff. At the we were living in Annapolis. We took our daughter out when she was 2 weeks old and never looked back. She was great on the weekend trips. Now we live in the middle of Ohio and sail on a lake close to Columbus in our O'Day 222. I miss the P30 but it is too big for this lake. My now 9 year old daughter still loves to sail and is pretty good on the O'Day. She just needs a bit more strength before she can singlehand.

Things I learned from transitioning:
- Keel boats have significantly more inertia. Plan ahead when you need to stop.
- Do not worry about capsizing. The lead keel does a much better job than the wide stance of the cats. It's pretty hard to do.,
- Stay on top of routine maintenance. Winches, through hulls, heads, engine, etc. all need regular maintenance. If you own a more complicated boat than a beach cat you will be doing maintenance. I enjoy it so I don't mind it.
- Boat handling skills. You will learn how to dock and anchor and other more "grown up" nautical things. Fin keels can turn on a dime unlike beach cats.
- In light wind power boat wakes are less annoying since the inertia can carry you through.
- Eventually, 5 kts of speed will seem really fast when the rail is in the water. Not the same as trapping out, but still lots of fun.
- You can sail 10 months out of the year comfortably on the Chesapeake.
- If you can, keep the Prindle for those great cat sailing days. You will miss it and it's nice to get a fix once in a while.

Mono hulls are a different kind of fun and are great for the family. I like the 25 - 30 foot range for the Chesapeake. While not a pocket cruiser there are several of them for sale at any given time, the prices can be reasonable, and you will have plenty of room for "boat camping".

Good luck and welcome to the dark side.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

There are some days when I wish I'd never had any sailboat beyond the Hobie 16. I don't think I've ever had as much just plain fun, sailing and surfing it, without all the work of a big boat.


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## s_ruffner (Aug 5, 2019)

nickmerc said:


> I sailed Hobie 16's and 18's for several years before switching to a mono slug. When my wife got pregnant she made me sell the Hobies (as expected). Surprisingly she told me to buy a bigger boat so we could take the baby sailing. Like the dutiful husband I was I said "Yes, Dear". We bought a Pearson 30. It was a good price, has a decent turn of speed for a mid '70's racer cruiser, was easy to singlehand and had plenty of room below for all of the kid stuff. At the we were living in Annapolis. We took our daughter out when she was 2 weeks old and never looked back. She was great on the weekend trips. Now we live in the middle of Ohio and sail on a lake close to Columbus in our O'Day 222. I miss the P30 but it is too big for this lake. My now 9 year old daughter still loves to sail and is pretty good on the O'Day. She just needs a bit more strength before she can singlehand.
> 
> Things I learned from transitioning:
> - Keel boats have significantly more inertia. Plan ahead when you need to stop.
> ...


I would love to get a Pearson 30...right now I'm looking at slightly smaller Catalinas just for price sensitivity....basically trying to get my wife hooked. In my dreams, something (I think, I suppose I need to sail a few) a Beneteau 343.

I do know how to dock and anchor, though I confess, I still want to get into the slip under sail...I definitely note the inertia...it's handy in a way. My reference was to blowing 5kts, not making 5kts, but yeah, when the water slips up over the rails, it does feel fast!

I have ZERO intention of getting rid of the P18...as much for sentimental reasons as anything. I do look forward to setting up the traps and flying a hull with my son - I don't think there's really any better way of getting real fundamentals - a physical awareness of the wind and the boat - than that kind of "dinghy sailing".

We did our ASA courses at Sail Solomon's (they were great - Jeff and Barry were wonderful), and will be going back a few more times to really get my wife completely comfortable with "known" equipment, and I am in the meantime trying to find a slip and boat, which are close enough that we can run to them frequently, and manageable. There's a Beneteau in the Sail Solomon's fleet.


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## Whalerus (Apr 24, 2019)

As a kid my family had a monohull cruiser.
I grew up and got a beach cat. 
When i found a girlfriend, we got a monohull cruiser.
After the cruiser has been on the hard for some years, we now sail a beach cat.


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## Whalerus (Apr 24, 2019)

s_ruffner said:


> I still want to get into the slip under sail...


Awesome.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

s_ruffner said:


> I would love to get a Pearson 30...right now I'm looking at slightly smaller Catalinas just for price sensitivity....basically trying to get my wife hooked.


How big of a Catalina are you thinking about? The 22 is easily trailerable and can be a micro cruiser. My wife and I do OK in ours, not sure how fun it would be if you added a kid.

The Catalina 25 is still trailerable, although I'm sure launching and rigging it is a chore. That would be a fun little thing.


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## s_ruffner (Aug 5, 2019)

Minnesail said:


> How big of a Catalina are you thinking about? The 22 is easily trailerable and can be a micro cruiser. My wife and I do OK in ours, not sure how fun it would be if you added a kid.
> 
> The Catalina 25 is still trailerable, although I'm sure launching and rigging it is a chore. That would be a fun little thing.


We've been sailing the 22 Capri and while it is roomier than I expected, and one could overnight on it, the port-a-potty vs. having a pump head with a holding tank is a downer. Our son is young, so we'd fit...for now. We took out my SIL and her two kids with us on one cruise, and it was cramped. I just think the 22 is a tad too small, but there are scads of them around for cheap.

I am not looking for a trailer sailer. If I got a 22 I'd leave it in the slip. What my wife dislikes about the P18 (aside from getting wet through the trampoline) is the setup, and I confess, i tire of walking up the mast over the trampoline. I need to work out a rig for that. What we want is a boat in a slip that we can run to after work on Friday and spend a couple of nights aboard, maybe overnight in a destination marina.

I'd skip straight to a C30 if I could get away with it. I'm looking at 25s, 27s and 30s...I think my best bet will be a well-maintained 27. I've been reasonably impressed by the build quality of the C22s I've been sailing. Getting a 30' boat that won't be a ton of immediate maintenance expense in time and money will mean a bigger up-front investment, so a 27 seems most likely. I have helmed Hunters before - taking a turn on someone else's boat - but it's been 20 years, and I just don't remember how it felt. I gather they're somewhat tender, and I'd prefer a faster, stiffer boat. My thinking is that - as others have mentioned - the expectations and goals for serious sailing with little kids aboard should be moderated - so something like this is dandy, and if we all get hooked, the decision to invest in a more serious boat will be much easier to make.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I had my 4 year old son out on a beach cat this winter past. It went pretty well. Conditions were lively, wind was blowing, busting through ocean surf. The boat was steady as a rock. It was a fairly modern boat, Hobie 15. Boomless main, stable with high volume hulls. It might be worth checking out one of the newer generation family oriented beach cats (Hobie Getaway etc).

I wouldn't take him out on my Prindle yet though. Too high strung. Low boom, finger slicing traveler, powerful (for her age).

Something like a Catalina 27 sounds about right for your plan. Standing headroom, enclosed head, stable, chilled out to sail, affordable.


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## TimMarks (Jun 2, 2018)

Don't know if you can swing the cost, but how about a Corsair F-27 or Farrier F-22 trimaran?

Pocket cruiser size, and (almost) as fast as your cat.

Cockpit so your wife won't be getting wet through the trampoline. If needed, amas fold up and you can trailer it. Small (camped) living space below.

https://www.f-boat.com/index.html
https://www.boats.com/reviews/perry-design-review-f-27/


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## s_ruffner (Aug 5, 2019)

Those are neat boats! They're also quite a bit more expensive than I'm looking for right now. I'm trying to strike a balance between cost of ownership versus a sailing club membership, so that means finding something <$20k (ideally closer to $10k) that I can recoup some of if this doesn't work out for us as a thing we really use. If all goes well, in a couple of years, we'll be in the market for a boat in the >$50k range.

I confess I haven't seriously looked at any multi-hull cruisers. I'll keep my eyes open for these boats going forward! Seems pretty awesome!

I have to say, I'm OK with the less intense/sporty aspects of cruising. The goal here is a more leisurely approach, and I can always take the cat back out for the sporty stuff later.


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## nickmerc (Nov 2, 2008)

I know you mentioned that a Pearson 30 is probably out of your budget last time I brought it up, but you can get into a decent one that ready to sail for $10-15K. As you get used to it you can upgrade what you want later. It has a head, plenty of room for a family of 3 (I used to take my newborn daughter on overnights with us and she had tons of "accessories" my wife insisted we bring), good storarage, and has decent performance. It is a prolific boat and the Chesapeake has many of them. With a little patience I think you could find one you like.

The bonus from my point of view is you can use the boat for many years. Even as you become more experienced with cruising. And, if you decide to race, you can do that too. All of this without having to buy another boat in a few years. I am quite partial to them as the P30 was my first keelboat and I would still have it today if I did not move inland. We had five great years with her.


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## s_ruffner (Aug 5, 2019)

I'll look more closely, but my original spot-checks suggested Pearsons in the ~$20k range were also 45+ years old. There are a few Pearson 27s which are newer (1980s) and under 20k...interestingly, they look like they've even got hand-held showers in the head! Most of the <40 year old Pearsons are 31's and $30k+. Definitely a boat I would consider for our second round.

EDIT: I should have noted that you said your P30 was a '74. How much had been done to the boat when you got it and how much did you have to put into it to keep it going? One of the issues for my wife is a general preference for cosmetically nice things, often without any understanding (and therefore appreciation) of the functional aspects.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Purchase price is only a small part of the equation. Moorage and storage fees are based on length and sometimes beam. Insurance is more on a bigger boat. Bigger boats have more and bigger systems. Bigger anchors, bigger sails, bigger lines, more bottom paint etc.

The difference in cost of ownership between 27 and 30 ft probably isn't that big of a deal, but it may be in the neighborhood of %15 higher for a 30 vs a 27, assuming the plan is to keep it in a slip.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

s_ruffner said:


> Those are neat boats! They're also quite a bit more expensive than I'm looking for right now. I'm trying to strike a balance between cost of ownership versus a sailing club membership, so that means finding something <$20k (ideally closer to $10k) that I can recoup some of if this doesn't work out for us as a thing we really use. If all goes well, in a couple of years, we'll be in the market for a boat in the >$50k range.
> 
> I confess I haven't seriously looked at any multi-hull cruisers. I'll keep my eyes open for these boats going forward! Seems pretty awesome!
> 
> I have to say, I'm OK with the less intense/sporty aspects of cruising. The goal here is a more leisurely approach, and I can always take the cat back out for the sporty stuff later.


Stiletto 27. I've cruised one up to 600 miles and 2 weeks, stopping in motels every few days for a shower. It is faster than a Hobie and quite capable of sailing the Chesapeake from end to end (and indeed, we went around the Delmarva several times--there is a book about that in my blog).

I've also owned cruising cats and F-boats. They are nice, but more money. But the Stiletto offers the most speed/$ you can get. Perfect for the ex-beach cat sailor. There is a bunch about them on my blog, listed below. You should be able to find one for $10-$12K.

Sail Delmarva: Short Summer?s Cruise

Note. the motor is down to slow the boat for the photographer. The boat will motor at 12 knots and sail past 20 knots, though the low teens is more normal.]


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## nickmerc (Nov 2, 2008)

My '74 P30 had the original Atomic 4 engine, Datamarine instruments, the main and genoa were only about 3 years old when I bought her but the spin was about 10 years old with little use. The PO also left everything; anchors, flares, PFD's, boat hook, tools, spares, etc. It was very well appointed. I was the third owner. One of the PO's put the fresh water cooling mod on the engine, a cold plate in the ice box, a Profurl roller furler, two speed self tailing winches, tri-color mast head light and anchor light, and took care of the compression post rot at the base. It was in great sail away condition. No issues. 

I chose to add a few things to make my life easier. None of these were required:
- Electronic ignition: < $100 and an hour of work (don't recall the cost exactly)
- Spin pole bracket to keep the pole secure on deck : 1 hr work
- 4 position key switch for the blower, starter, and ignition : 1 hr work
- Added a solar panel
- Changed lights to LED's inside and out
- Updated the VHF
- Updated the battery charger from the original
- Added a galvanic isolator (my marina had significant stray electrical current)
- Rewired the entire boat : My choice since the wires were 40 years old, I was doing other electrical upgrades (above), and I had access to affordable supplies
- Stocked the ice chest with beer

I had to occasionally rebed some hardware and through deck fittings and replace lines, and paint the bottom as you will on all sailboats.The gelcoat was faded but some time with a buffing wheel would have fixed that. I just used NuFinish twice a year for protection and left it alone. The non-skid on the deck had the swirls from a manufactuing issue back in the '70's. I never got around to painting them but the person who bought the boat from me did and it looks great.

Outside of the rewiring everyting I did was pretty simple, did not take much time (I did most of it on days that the wind was light), and was reasonable in cost. I did the projects over two seasons (including the wiring). I sailed at least 3 days per week from mid March through November except for the time I was hauled out to paint the bottom or I was traveling for work.

I have found these boats to be solidly built, easy to work on, and parts are still available with good support networks. If I had $20K to spend at the time I may have bought a newer boat, but I would not discount boats from this era. Especially, if you plan to upgrade in a few years.

These are my opinions and experiences. This worked for me at that point in my life. Your situation may be different. Before you buy anything, get rides in as many different boats as you can.

EDIT: As you can see now, I have a very different kind of boat that fits my current needs.


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## danvon (Dec 10, 2012)

Our first keelboat was a Catalina 27. At the time I didn't think i was up to handling anything bigger (docking etc.) which turned out not to be really an issue. I sort of wound up wishing we'd bought a Cat30 (not a whole lot longer but WAY more interior room and better for cruising). 

Having said that, the 27s are great boats if you find a good one. I'd look for the outboard version as there is not a whole lot of storage space and the spot where the engine would sit under the cockpit is really nice to have open. A 10 horse outboard will drive them just fine unless you are out in really big waves athough you want a long shaft for sure. There are a zillion out there which means that whatever you want to know you can easily find out from the owner's group or Sailnet. I think you are in a light wind area so the tall rig version might be nice to have.

Pay attention to the keel mounting (there is plywood in the stub that the keel mounts to and that can rot, causing the "Catalina Smile") and to the decks. Plywood coring can get wet and rot if past owners didn't keep the hardware sealed. There is also a known issue with the cast aluminum spreader mounts which can apparently fail without warning. It's nice if you can find one where the replacement with stainless has already been done - that will save some time & $$. I'd definitely have a boat that size surveyed before buying. But they are quite simple and there is not a whole lot to go wrong.


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## s_ruffner (Aug 5, 2019)

I'm actually looking much more closely at a P31-II, which is newer but still not unreasonably priced. I'm slowly coming around to the view of skipping right up to 30' for reasons of space and comfort, which will be much more important to getting others to join in actual boat time.


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