# SSB Operation - IC-M802



## SteveInMD (May 11, 2007)

My current boat has an M802 SSB radio. I have some SSB experience, but I've not used this particular radio before. I usually get along quite well with electronics and computers, but the M802 is challenging me. I didn't find Southbound II VAX498 anywhere in the user channels so my goal is to add 12359.0 to an empty user channel memory location. I'm following the frequency programming instructions...Enter the memory channel number and press enter. The blank channel appears as it is supposed to, but the next step is to press the [RX clar] button and then enter the frequency. However when I press [RX clar] I don't get the > appearing in the display and the radio doesn't allow me to enter the frequency, instead it just beeps when I press a number key. What am I doing wrong? Can the capability to program user channels be locked out somehow?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Steve...try this reference...it should help you out. Nearly drove me crazy till I got this page!! 
M-802 Programming


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

12359.0 kHz is one of the factory-programmed channels in the M802. I don't recall what it is, but it is listed in the separate manual that has all the channel programming in it.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

12359 is Channel 119 on the Icom pre-programmed list BUT many radios are modified by installation companies as well as PO's and of course ICOM can change the list from time to time as well. 
I have a PDF of the actual complete station list if anyone would like it. Just send me a PM with your E-mail address.


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## SteveInMD (May 11, 2007)

Thanks cam. I don't think I'm in open dial mode. Maybe that will allow me to program a frequency.

SVAuspicious - You are right, I missed it before, but 12359.0 is user channel 46. I guess my real frustration is that I wasn't able to custom program channels. I think maybe I'm on the right track now. Thanks.


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## SteveInMD (May 11, 2007)

On mine, 119 is 14325.0 So it depends on which version of the channel user channel package you have loaded. I know that the Icom dealer can bring a laptop on board and load the latest channel package. I don't suppose anyone would care to share the software and channel package data so I could do this myself?


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## windward54 (Apr 12, 2000)

Gordon West has been working with ICOM to standardize the stored channels on SSB radios. Boy, wouldn't that make it easier for everyone! And there is a new "FULL LOAD" of frequencies that Gordon put together for downloading into the newer ICOM M802's. I bought my radio in March of this year, and of course ICOM still is downloading the old list. I was lucky as I took a Gordon West radio class and he graciously checked out my radio and uploaded the new list (12359 is on Ch119 on the new list). Let me know if you would like a copy of the list.<O</O
<O</O
ICOM has not allowed the software to be distributed at this time. Guess it makes money for service calls for the technicians. <O</O


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Windward-

I'd love to see the new list.


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## windward54 (Apr 12, 2000)

Sailingdog, the system does not allow for pdf files and when I converted the page to jpeg, it was too big for the system. I opened up my e-mail to receive e-mails from members. Just shoot me an e-mail through this site and I'll send the pdf file to you.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Windward-

Good enough... and I'll post it where others can download it if you'd like me to.  Just sent you an email.


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## SteveInMD (May 11, 2007)

I'd like a copy.

BTW - camaraderie gave the the answer. Once I put my radio in "open dial mode" it's much easier to program.

I have another question. Should I expect to have good reception and transmission capabilities while sitting in my slip, or do the other masts, etc which are close by cause interference?

Also, would anyone be interested in a brief chat via SSB so I can test my radio operation? I'm near Annapolis, - I'd be looking to chat with someone within a few hundred miles.


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## windward54 (Apr 12, 2000)

Sailingdog, you should have it by now. There is no problem sharing it. 

And SteveInMD, I seem to get better performance away from the dock. However, on the 20 meter ham band, I have had contacts and good signal reports from a couple of thousand miles away, even though conditions are not the best right now. And this while tied up at the dock. If you don't have your general license, I would encourage you to get it. There are a lot more hams out there than there are boats equipped with SSB. They all love to talk and most get a kick out of talking to a ham on a boat.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

At work, will check when I get home... and will post a link to it when I get a chance. Thanks windward.

Here's the *LIST*.


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## SteveInMD (May 11, 2007)

Windward - I just have my restricted op. license now, but I think I will pursue the ham license. Thanks.


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## windward54 (Apr 12, 2000)

No problem. If you want to give a shout out to the west coast some time, let me know. The call signs are WDE4472 and KI6CZP.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Steve...my experience is that sitting in a marina greatly diminishes TX and somewhat diminishes RX. Maybe Trayfors or one of the other gurus can explain it...all I have is my experience.


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

Both transmission and reception are usually adversely affected when operating in a marina. This is due to several factors, including all the other boats and structures which can deflect and/or absorb signals, and to the profusion of radio frequency interference (RFI) sources nearby.

The structures nearby (mainly other boats, particularly sailboats with metal masts and standing rigging, but also bridges, gangplanks, docks, pilings, shoreline features, etc.) will affect both the *transmission* of signals from your boat and the *reception* of incoming signals.

However, by far the worst problem in regard to *reception* of HF signals in a marina are the hundreds of RFI sources nearby, including those on your own boat, on the docks, and on other nearby boats. From a HF radio's point of view, marinas are very noisy locations!

Biggest offenders are digital devices (digital voltmeters, inverters, chargers) but also refrigerators, alternators, leakages from poor electrical connections, electric motors, computers, etc., etc. Tracking these down can be a real bear. And, often as not, the interference from other boats and from the docks...which you can't do much if anything about...is the real problem.

Nevertheless, if you track down the worst offenders on your own boat AND if you have a good installation AND if you are a competent radio operator you most certainly CAN make good radio contacts from your marina. This is true regardless of your location in the water or hauled out.

Hams like to pride themselves on being able to make successful contacts using low power under adverse conditions. Some low-power fanciers, "QRP enthusiasts", regularly make transAtlantic contacts using only 5 watts or less and wire antennas. I have done so for many years both from my boat and from land-based locations. This takes a bit more skill, but is something worth practicing against the time when you really might *need* to make a SSB contact under less than ideal conditions.

Bill


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## SteveInMD (May 11, 2007)

*Ham license*

I took a few online practice test for my technical level ham license. I (just barely) passed the tests, but feel it would be smart to actually study first. Can anyone recommend a good book, or website to study from? The website I was using didn't tell me the correct answer when I got one wrong.

Do I need to aim high than the technical level to get started?


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## windward54 (Apr 12, 2000)

To use almost all of the HF capacity on the ICOM M802, you'll need to get your General ticket. A tech license only gives you access to a little part of the 10 meter band. Regardless, you need to pass the Tech test first, as the FCC won't allow you to just take the General test. Gordon West sells books and test prep materials on his website. It is funny, but you will find that the prep books have all the questions and answers. The test will be 35 questions taken from the pool of about 600 questions. And no more Morse code test anymore. But don't underestimate the value of taking a class. I could have passed the test without it, but wouldn't have learned anything.


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## SteveInMD (May 11, 2007)

Well, it took me a while to get around to it but I did get my general ham license (KB3SVB). I also set up a IC-718 at home to help me learn the ropes. I have a few more questions about the IC-M802 on my boat. Does the M802 have an SWR meter? Do I need to be concerned about SWR on my boat radio just as on my 718 rig? Can I adjust the mic gain on the M802? I do have the manual but the M802 manual seems very poorly written to me.


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

Steve,

Congratulations on your new license! You'll really enjoy using it both afloat and ashore.

I believe that all SSB installations should have a good cross-needle PWR/SWR meter located near the transceiver to give continuous monitoring of power output and performance of the antenna system. The Daiwa CN-101L is a good one ($99 online price from Chuck Martin RF Shop). I nearly always include one on my installs.

Don't believe you can adjust the mic gain on the 802. The 802 does have a speech compression "feature", but it's turned off by default and can only be turned on with the proper software. However, the 802 is likely no longer compliant with the FCC type-acceptance requirements with its compression turned on...that's why they leave it off by default.

The net result of this is that the 802, on average, seems to have less "talk power" than other marine SSBs in it's class. Gordon West has noted this, as have others.

I agree with you re: the 802 Instructions. Badly written. Marty Brown (the IdiYacht series author) was working on a rewrite last year; don't know if it's surfaced yet.

As a matter of fact, there lots of things to dislike about this rig, including the inability of even an experienced radio person to puzzle out even simple operations -- like programming in new frequencies -- without a cheat sheet. Intuitive it is NOT! One would expect better from Icom, especially for their flagship SSB. Truth is, you'll probably have much more fun with the 718 at home 

Invite you to join us on the Waterway Net mornings beginning at 0745 EDT on 7268 LSB. Runs for almost an hour, with position reports from boats beginning at 0815. 

Best,

Bill
WA6CCA


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

btrayfors said:


> Steve,
> 
> Congratulations on your new license! You'll really enjoy using it both afloat and ashore.
> 
> ...


Bill,

The knowledge availble from SailNet members never ceases to amaze me!!

If you are not especially keen on the Icom 802, which SSB/Ham radio model would you recommend for a marine installation?

Apologies if you answered that question earlier in this thread -- it's been a while since I read it "cover to cover".


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

Hi, John...

That's always a tough one, 'cuz there's no perfect solution.

IF you can live without HF/DSC (i.e., the 802)...

AND you have room enough to install a full-size radio (and don't need a removable control panel like the 802)...

THEN IMHO the best buy on the market is the Icom M700Pro. It costs a lot less than the 802, it's built like a tank (same architecture as the M710), is easy to program, works well on both ham and marine bands, works fine with HF email (Pactor III), and is extremely robust and reliable.

The slightly more costly M710 has more memories, but isn't as easy to program and use on the ham bands. However, it's still a great radio.

NOW, IF you can live without HF email...

THEN, there are some great buys in older used marine radios. Among these my favorites are the old M700 and the smaller M600. Both very fine radios. Not well suited to ham operation, though, but you can program in net frequencies and use them on the ham bands just fine for net operations.

Other great little radios are the Kenwood TKM-707 (my personal favorite..I have two), but it's hard to find; and, the Yaesu System 600 (also known as the FT-600)....fine little marine radio -- I have one on my boat. See pic next to my Yaesu FT-900 ham rig. NavStn_0140

Although the Furuno 1503 is a fine little radio, I'm not real fond of it and it's damned expensive to repair if something goes wrong.

There are probably a few others I've missed, but these are the "usual suspects" )

Bill


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## SteveInMD (May 11, 2007)

btrayfors said:


> Steve,
> 
> Congratulations on your new license! You'll really enjoy using it both afloat and ashore.
> 
> ...


Thank you for information. So I gather the M802 doesn't have a built in SWR meter like the 718 does. Also, thank you for the invite. I'll try to catch the Waterway Net sometime soon.

Steve


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

On the M802 the indicator that says "TUNE" or "THRU" depending on the antenna tuner state--if you use an Icom tuner--will flash "SWR" when the internally measured SWR is high enough to cause the final protection circuit to start reducing power.

I will add my voice to Bill's that a good cross-needle SWR meter is a valuable and inexpensive addition to any installation.

In addition to the brands noted above Sailor makes some very nice marine SSB radios.

I differ from Bill on the usability of the M802. I enjoy using mine on marine SSB channels and ham radio frequencies alike. Different brains work in different ways, and the 802 controls seem quite natural to me. I can give you a long list of people who are likely to say there is something odd about me, so try to spend some time in front of one before making a choice. I'm definitely happy when I get on a boat to do a delivery to have an 802 aboard.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

This is quite interesting to me, because of the propaganda out there that the ICOM M-802 is the "cruiser's SSB of choice". I had an opportunity to get a Kenwood TS-50S for "cheap" a while back, but as the SSB installation is about the last thing I need to do before we leave in 2011 (along with the radar, and yes, I'm waiting for a fuller suite of broadband radars), I thought I would wait.

Because we will be teaching a child offshore, and will need some form of SailMail/Winlink, etc. I liked the M-802/AT-140 tuner/Pactor III modem combo because it seemed to promise some automation of the process, so we could take advantage of propagation windows to send "bursts" of e-mail and get GRIB files, etc.

So I would love to hear alternatives, because I may be letting the crowd sway me. I just got my ROC(M) licence, by the way (not a HAM licence, just SSB and I get an MMSI number for my DSC radios), and I would like to learn more.


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## SteveInMD (May 11, 2007)

Don't get me wrong - I like the M802. I wish it were more like the Icom-718 in some ways, but if I were buying another marine HF radio it's likely I'd buy another one.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

btrayfors said:


> Hi, John...
> 
> That's always a tough one, 'cuz there's no perfect solution.
> 
> ...


MAny thanks, Bill.


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## morgan3 (Oct 16, 2008)

Hi Bill and all 

I'm in the process of buying an SSB setup and all of your posts have been a tremendous help......thanks alot! We're on a tight budget, and casting off for unknown lands in 1 month, so "research" time is almost up  I'd like to find the radio, tuner, and pactor modem for around $1,000.....if that's not possible then I'll hold off on the pactor modem for now.

Is it possible to send/recieve e-mail and weather files with the M700 or the kenwood/Yaesu models you mention? When looking at used radios on ebay what tells me if it can be used with a pactor modem?

cheers!

~morgan


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

Hi, Morgan...

Well, you simply aren't going to find an SSB, tuner, and Pactor modem for $1,000 (unless your aunt Mary has one to give you). Sorry.

Pactor modems go for $600-900 or so used. A new one will run over $1,000 and, with the very desirable Pactor III license, more than that.

Re: the SSBs, a good place to review various radios and their suitability for email is the tech portion of the SailMail website. There are some very good notes there on specific radios. SailMail Primer

Most radios can be made to work...if somewhat fitfully...with data modes. However, the pertinent factors to look for include: (1) T/R switching speed (some older radios are really too slow for serious Pactor work); (2) sustained power output (some radios can't run semi-continuously at their rated outputs; email modes work them pretty hard, so they need to be operated at lower power output levels; (3) easy connection to the modem; and (4) compatibility with computer control programs.

If you're seriously interested in email, I'd go for a radio like the M710 or M700Pro for marine band work, with the capability of transmitting on ham bands as well. Or, for ham band use, the 718, 706MKIIG are very popular radios and interface with Pactor modems easily....cables readily available.

I believe that for many cruisers HF email is becoming less attractive, both because of it's high priced equipment and because Wi-Fi and Air Card data services are becoming widely available, especially in popular cruising spots.

By the way, I still have several older SSB rigs which I haven''t had time to put on eBay yet. Just sold an M700Pro yesterday. These are fully tested and programmed for both marine and ham use. Anyone interested please email me or PM me and I'll send a list of what's available.

Bill


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Morgan3...ditto Bill's comments on Sailmail becoming less popular among cruisers. It is a hell of an expense for 10 minutes use a day and text only e-mail. We had it...but at $1100 bucks for the modem and $150 a year for the service...I would not get it again. Even crossing oceans, I'd think about a satphone instead to have ASSURED communications along with a basic SSB. 
As Bill says...if your cruising plans don't include crossing oceans, there are lots of other more flexible options these days.


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## windward54 (Apr 12, 2000)

camaraderie said:


> Morgan3...ditto Bill's comments on Sailmail becoming less popular among cruisers. It is a hell of an expense for 10 minutes use a day and text only e-mail. We had it...but at $1100 bucks for the modem and $150 a year for the service...I would not get it again. Even crossing oceans, I'd think about a satphone instead to have ASSURED communications along with a basic SSB.
> As Bill says...if your cruising plans don't include crossing oceans, there are lots of other more flexible options these days.


Now you know why I use Winlink. The system is free, is a little more wide spread, and I can send pictures. I may have to reduce the file size to around 20K to send the picture attachments, but it does work for that fast shot off to friends. Only requirement is that you have the proper ham license for the frequency you are using.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

And you can't use winlink/Ham for any business stuff though right? And you still need $1k for the PactorIII right?


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## velero (Dec 19, 2001)

btrayfors

I just sent you a PM check your inbox. Velero


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## morgan3 (Oct 16, 2008)

so the 718 and the 706 cannot transmit on the marine bands?

My main concern is to be able to receive weather information during passages (I can definately live without e-mail). How useful is an SSB without a pactor modem for recieving weather data? Do you need a pactor modem to use a weather fax?

What is the difference in output between a weather fax vs a GRIB file?

Bill - Please do PM me with some info on the radios you have.....I need to make a few more posts before I can PM


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

Morgan,

The 718 and the 706, with mods, can transmit on the marine bands. But, it's illegal to do so except in a bonafide emergency. Some sailors ignore this, and do it anyway.

Will send you a PM.

Bill


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## morgan3 (Oct 16, 2008)

Post #5 so I can PM ;-)


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## windward54 (Apr 12, 2000)

camaraderie said:


> And you can't use winlink/Ham for any business stuff though right? And you still need $1k for the PactorIII right?


You are correct. I paid a little more for my modem, as I wanted the bluetooth-enabled unit. But I've been called a radio geek before!

By no business, that doesn't mean you can't use it to order parts or stuff you might need while away from the dock. What no business means is I can't run a business (i.e. earn a regular income) from my boat, using Winlink to stay in touch. But if I'm on my boat, who wants to work anyway? I have it to stay in touch when away from the dock and as an emergency backup as I live in earthquake area of Southern California.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Morgan3...SSB without pactor will still get you all the regional and voice weather reports for high seas and if you have a PC You will be able to come off the headphone or lineout jack on the radio and into the Mic jack on the PC. You can get Weather Fax software that will display the faxes and navtex weather text messages on your PC. You can also do this from any good portable SW receiver that has SSB coverage. 
Try the SeaTTY or Jvcomm software...you can download working copies to see if you like them before buying. 
SeaTTY free download. A program to receive weather reports, navigational warnings and weather charts transmitted on longwave and shortwave bands in RTTY, NAVTEX and HF-FAX ...

JVComm32 - FAX SSTV RTTY SYNOP NAVTEX program

**********

Windward...thanks for the clarification.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> I'd think about a satphone instead to have ASSURED communications along with a basic SSB.


I respectfully disagree. My personal experience with SSB, Iridium, and Globalstar lead me to conclude that with just a little understanding of propagation one is most likely to make contact - one way or the other - with SSB.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Well we are each entitled to our choices. Iridium would be mine...not globalstar for sure. I'd rather have both...but if forced to choose it would be the satphone which SAVED us and others in Grenada after the mast had come down in Ivan and knocked out the SSB and nothing else on the island worked to get us in touch with family from around the world and help. They also fit in a ditch bag a lot better than an ssb!


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## tjaldur (Mar 1, 2008)

On my sailing last year, from Oslo, Norway to the Bay of Biscay, where I lost my ship in a towing (the ship that was towing my ship lost it), I had an Iridium sat-phone and a NASA HF receiver for getting the weather forecasts (RTTY). That is downloading GRIB-files with the sat phone, in the cases where there were no Internet facilities in the harbours. And of course a VHF transceiver for coastal radio traffic and weather forecasts.

I found the establishing of contact with the Iridium system cumbersome and fragile, and expensive. The speed was usually around 7200 baud. Still possible to download GRIB files. 

This spring I decided to take the LRC license. That is license to use the maritime bands with a HF-transceiver. During the course I was following to pass the LRC license I was made aware that many maritime band transceivers also would operate on amateur bands provided one has a radio amateur licence. So, since I would buy a HF-transceiver for the maritime band in any case, I could as well take the amateur licence and thus use the transceiver in its full capacities. It seems to me that the smart thing is to have both licences. 

So I decided to take the amateur lisence. I must admit that entering the world of Ham radio enthusiasts was quite a bit of cultural shock to me, but they are very kind and helpful towards a beginner like me. Right now I am trying to comprehend antenna magic and discussing in a forum, much like this one, about the pros and cons of using the back-stay of the boat as an antenna, together with an automatic tuner.

Now the good thing to be said about the ICOM M802, at least in my case, is that it has made the ICOM M710 affordable. So far I have been able to buy the M710 transceiver and the MJH 949E manual tuner for less than $ 1000 from the ham radio members of the NRRL (Norwegian equivalent of the ARRL).

Having an amateur licence also gives access to a global organisation of ham radio operators.

Finally I agree with camaraderie that if one have to leave the ship, a sat phone would be very nice and useful, as well as a handheld VHF, just in case one had the opportunity to activate the EPIRB.


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