# re-e-power



## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## capn_dave (Feb 17, 2000)

*Believe it or not*

There is a guy in our that is going to install a pair of them as we speak. The reason for to is as of this writing there is not enough power for one unit to propell his boat properly. Also they have to be mounted on the side of the hull rather than midship. He is working with the mfg. and he is making fairings in the hull for them.
I will keep you posted as the project goes on. I have touched them as they have been here for about two weeks.

Fair Winds
Cap'n Dave


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## deckhanddave (Oct 22, 2006)

looks interesting. I love the idea of doing away with both a 350 lb noisy, smelly engine, and a potentially explosive fuel source. My only issue with electric auxilary is the lack of emergency power and the "feeding" of such a large bank of cells. Yes it could charge itself when not in use, but 3-4 hours of emergency power? Hope I'm not trying to beat off a shore... I look forward to the day that either photo cells make a huge leap in efficiency or batteries dramatically increase in capacity/decrease in size. Who's doing the install?


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Is there any feedback on this unit from actual use? I'm about to repower with a Yanmar and this just perked my curiosity. I have not looked at the technical details, but I would imagine a large battery bank would be required. I like the no shaft/stuffing box... Plus it would free up a huge area where the fuel tank and engine are located for something else (batteries?).


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I'm currently installing an electric motor in my columbia 29. I just pulled out the Atomic 4, nothing more will happen till after January. I'm part of a beta system for Electric Yacht systems. So basically I will fasten the electric engine through the reduction mounting unit rigt on the exsisting propeller shaft. I will put in a bank of batteries creating a 48vDC system and use wind and regan (3 blade prop turning the engine charging the battery under sail or during tidal flow) to charge the bank.

The electric motor and battery bank will weigh about the same as the A4 and Gas. However no smelly gas and the batteries can stow closer to mid ship, and lower. The engine compartment can be redesigned to accomodate additional storage that wouldn't be possible with a gasser. Also my gas tank was in the transom and now I can put the life jacket and spiniker and storm sails in there and actually have less weight in the transom.

This type of system usually yeilds about 2.5 hours at 5 knots, 4 hours at 4 knots and all day at 3knots. If you use a deisel genset mounted on the cabin or in the engine compartment next to the electric motor, you can run unlimited. This of course is known as a Deisel electric which is used by the big cruise ships and locomotives... it is more energy effieceint than a straight gas or deisel engine, thats why they use it. Also lighter and more versatile.

I will be using straight electric and when I run out of fuel (batery charge) the tidal flow, wind and the sun will recharge me. I hear a lot of people who talk about dramatic emergency situations such as beating off a lea shore and every other thing imaginable... my old gasser has left me stranded a mile out from port with no wind... and I've heard a lot more horror stories from broken impellers and water in the line to make me think pay attention to the nay sayers. Besides I have a sail boat and people have sailed them for centuries without any type of auxilary power at all.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*MJNAME*:

Thanks for the reply. I tend to agree with your thoughts on using the electric drive. One thing I consider to be a great advantage is to not have a drive shaft and stuffing box involved (but you apparently are still using the existing shaft).

With the motor mounted below the hull the only through hull needed is for the feed wires which can be sealed completely. That is the reason I'm considering the RE-E-POWER system. I wish I could find some competitors.

Removing my diesel engine and tank will free up a lot of room.

The only thing that makes me slightly hesitant is that there are not many people that have done this.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

JouvertSpirit:

Have you checked out any of the electric boat forums on Yahoo.com. I belong to a couple and I think there might be some posts in the archeive about re-power. The groups name is ElectricBoats and I think you can subscribe by sending an email to: 
[email protected]

I hope someone can give you real first hand experience information.

I like keeping my thru haul setup but give me a few years and who knows what I will prefer. 

The only thing I know for sure is the farthest I get away from petrol and actually owning my power, the happier I am.

Matthew


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

mjname said:


> . This of course is known as a Deisel electric which is used by the big cruise ships and locomotives... it is more energy effieceint than a straight gas or deisel engine, thats why they use it. Also lighter and more versatile.
> 
> I may have missed the change in the laws of physics but before the change this was impossible - use a diesel convert that power to mechanical to drive the boat verses use the diesel to convert to mechanical power to convert to electrical power to convert to mechanical power to drive the boat and have no loss of energy each time you convert. The only way you can save on energy costs is to get "free" energy from wind (includes sailing) and/or solar.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Actually you didn't miss the change in the laws of physics, they haven't changed. Your not just taking into account all the variables, ie laws not law. The big killer is the loss of energy in the the transmission. The getting rid of the gear ratio of having to use a transmission makes electric -diesel far more effeicent. Don't take my word for it... money speaks louder than anything I can say and the the cruise ship and locomotive industry spends billions on these setups. Their more effieceint that's why they use them.

It's eassier to make electric current than to make brut force, and electric current is real effeiceint in driving a motor. A 8 hp motor will spin the shaft at the force of 8hp consistantly at 1rpm or 3000, a 30 HP gas engine will have to be at it's top rated rpm usually 3500 before it reaches it's hp out put of 30hp.

For a really long and winded article on the efficiency of Deisel-electric systems 
http://www.ossapowerlite.com/tech_library/fuel_efficiency/fuel_efficiency.htm

I actually thought about a deisel electric and to run the deisel on waste vegtable oil... but it just seemed like such a hassle and a wind generator would be better for my needs.

PS Haven't you noticed the Hybrids on the streets? Their fuel effiecentcy isn't just from regan (breaking).


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks for the link to the yahoo groups. At this point it looks like the RE-E-Power company is the #1 choice. They have about an 8 week lead time though. I definitely want an electric system with the motor below the boat if I do go electric. 

Part of the reason for my pullout this time is that the hose on the stuffing box is worn out. My diesel engine is old and leaky so I was initially planning on just dropping a new Yanmar 3-cyl in, but now I'm really seriously considering the electric route. Price seems to be about the same. I need to find out some more about the actual electric motors used and make sure they are brushless. This is a big decision for me as it would be so easy to just drop a new diesel in. And the diesel would probably last longer in the long run.


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## Chuteman (May 23, 2006)

*Alternative*

Here's a link to Solomon Tech & their e-version which uses convestional shaft, etc
http://www.solomontechnologies.com/m_recreational.htm

I crewed on a boat with a ST-37 set-up....other threads on various forum on same topic.
Advantages - quiet, instant power, re-gen
Dis-advantages - Power mgt challenges, difficult to punch thru heavier waves & winds, generator needed for extended motoring

It could have been this particular setup.............would suggest lots of time spent on power mgt (in & out), storage (batteries), motor power & prop


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"This of course is known as a Deisel electric which is used by the big cruise ships and locomotives... it is more energy effieceint than a straight gas or deisel engine, thats why they use it. "
It *can* be more efficient, if you deem "efficient" to mean "suitable for a specific purpose" rather than "more work per unit of energy". The dual conversion will always be less efficient than single (direct) conversion. But locomotives need 100% torque from a dead stop, which diesel engines simple can't provide. Diesel-electric gives them the option of 100% torque from the electric motor. Then again, that's also why *steam* was a better way to run locomotives, same 100% torque all the way. 
There are also long comments about how GE killed the steam locomotive, when in fact the triple and quad-conversion steam turbine engines were more efficient, more economical, more reliable, and less expensive overall. But cheap sales and the marketing of "clean, not old dirty ashes" killed the steam engine in the RR business. It was very successful marketing.

Now, if Solomon would only have the courage to put a Hobbs meter in their systems and offer a warranty that was *longer* than the average combustion motor, instead of barely meeting the middle ground, that might get them more sales. If their "better" and more "reliable" and "simpler" system really could meet those claims.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Of course for the DIY there is always this kit.

http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sailboatkit.htm

for about $1,250.00 bucks you can even have regan.

However remember to switch props, the props that come with deisel and gas engines aren't good for mixing wash water.


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## Dawkahab (Aug 15, 2006)

A displacement hull requires about 2-3 HP per metric ton to achieve hull speed. If we have a 5 metric ton vessel (approx 11,000 pounds) we need 10-15 HP depending on wave and wind action. to make it easy lets call it 10. We now need 7460 watts to produce 10 HP. factor in another 15% for inefficiency we are up to 8500 watts. 0.44 pounds of diesel will produce 1 HP per hour. so we need 4.4 pounds of diesel or about 0.6 gallons per hr. To produce 10 HP or 8500 watts with batteries at a convenient 72 volts we need about 120 amps. 12 golf cart batteries at 225 amp hrs (1080 pounds) will give us 112 useable amp hours (discharged to 50%) or .93 hrs at 10 HP. It will actually be considerably less than this as the batteries are rated at a 20 hr duscharge rate and about 11 amps a 120 amp discharge rate will probably discharge them in about half that time or less. So now we have about a half hour or less of running time. So we now have produced 10 HP for half an hour with 1000 punds of batteries as against 10 HP for half an hour with 2.2 pounds of diesel. If we factor in the engine, weight of 350 pounds and assume 200 pounds of electric motors and associated equipment. we have 
1280 pounds of electrical equipment to produce 10 HP for half an hour versus 352 pounds of diesel engine and fuel. To achieve 5 hrs of run time at 10 HP we would need 10,000 pounds of batteries. 10 HP =8500 watts x10 hrs = 85000 watt hrs/72 volts 1180 amp Hrs. but since we should only discharge to 50% we will need twice that much (12 golf carts, to get 72 volts we need 12 6 volt batteries so we end up with 144 batteries.144 golf carts at $150.00 each $21,600 but only about 360 pounds of diesel engine and fuel In reality we would not use golf carts as that is way too many batteries (432 cells to maintain, not to mention the cabling nightmare and cable weight.) But even if we used large batteries like the Rolls 4KS25P 1350 amp hrs we would need 36 at 315 pounds ($36,000) so we are back to our 10,000 pounds plus of batteries. And we're still out of power in half an hour. And we haven't even begun to consider the weight and expense of recharging. If we have used 112 amp hrs we need to replace about 130. at 72 volts we need 9400 watts worth of solar panels. If we use 3 24 volt 200 watt panels panels in series and have 5 hrs of maximum charging per daywe will need 10 f them at $1200.00 each,$12,000, plus a charge controller $500.00 and 1250 square feet of space.The panels will add another 500 pounds. The pounds per horsepower ratio between the two systems is outrageous, not to mention the cost.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi everyone. I'm Kevin Plank from RE-E-POWER. I just had someone inform me that there was a discussion on here that involved our product and thought I would chime in to let everyone know I would be happy to answer any questions. 
I would also like to add that I must agree with the last post. There is a HUGE difference in electric torque and diesel torque. All of our tests have been overwhelming. Our main test boat right now is in Norfolk VA. It is a 30 foot sail boat. We are cruising around currently on a small bank of group 24 batteries. Since we installed them we have NOT charged them. We've been out 3 times for over an hour each time. They still show over half charge on the "state of charge" meter (gas gauge). We have varied the speeds from 3 to 6 knots. The amazing thing is that we have not had to go all the way to full power to attain hull speed even into a 15 knot head wind. 
We are working like crazy to update the website and also working on a new video. There is a huge amount of work to do and the website as well as our promo campaign is just a small but important part of the equation. We ARE looking for folks who want to be reps and install facilities. That's a whole other department. 
I don't want this to be a commercial for RE-E-POWER.com but I just want to inform all of you on what is happening with our company and let you know that we would be happy to answer questions about our product and EB's in general. There is a steep learning curve for all of us. 
Let's kick our "oil addiction" !

Kevin Plank
RE-E-POWER.com


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Kevin...Welcome! Just so you know...there is no problem with you reponding to questions about your product on this or any other thread as long as you state your affiliation. The input on appropriate subjects by experts is appreciated. 
Should you wish down the road, you should contact Admin Jeff for actual advertising on the site. Where in Norfolk are you running the boat out of? I get up there once in a while and it might be an interesting side trip!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks!
The boat is located at Bay Point Marina just down from Little Creek Marina and the Cutty Sark. The Blue Oyster restaurant is right on the corner. 
Let me know if you are headed up that way. We will be planning to have someone there to do demos at least once a month starting sometime in 'O7'. We are also looking to set up demo boats in Seattle, Tampa, San Diego, and a few other places. 
We can post our schedule if you'd like.
Look forward to meeting up with you!
Kevin Plank
RE-E-POWER.com


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sharkbait:

I had a correspondence with Kevin about my boat (Pearson 10M 33 footer, 12,000 lbs displacement) and he suggested the model 3000-S puller.

I would also like to know about the size of the battery bank required.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

There are a lot of considerations to the equation. If space allows I would recommend eight 6 volt flooded lead acid batteries to run at nearly hull speed for two or more hours. Wind and sea conditions play a big part as well as the cleanness of the hull bottom. In most cases, under calm seas and light breezes the boats in question could be run at 3-4 knots for two hours with only 4 group 31 batteries. (group 31's are usually the largest deep cycle batteries you can get at the local megamart). 
I would also like to add that one point overlooked in the difference between Diesel and battery power. When your batteries go "dead". Set the hook. Shut the motor off for about an hour and turn in back on again. The meter will show some remaining charge and you can actually run it again for quite some time. 
Now try this ... when your diesel runs out of fuel. Shut it off for an hour (or a day) and try starting it back up again. hmmmm 
Or try to make your own diesel from the wind or the sun. 
I know that electric power is not the answer for every boater, but until you've been on one, there is just no way to explain it. The quiet motive power that we get under sail, starts right from the dock. 

Kevin Plank
RE-E-POWER.com


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## Chuteman (May 23, 2006)

*That's the main issue*

"Wind and sea conditions play a big part as well as the cleanness of the hull bottom."

Kevin: Your quote matches what I experienced..............once the wind & sea picked up, the electric motor (not yours) could not punch thru or keep the boat moving at any reasonable speed.
I think the electric motor would be perfect for smaller lakes, bays (even SF Bay - where we sail 90+% of the time) and ICW but coastal & ocean cruising where the engine is needed (especially in bigger winds, swells & waves) for "heavy" lifting, it does not not sound like advancements have matched diesels yet.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

If I may ask what type of system you've experienced? Our system is more than powerful enough to punch a 30 footer through anything that a 20-30 hp diesel inboard will do. Power isn't the issue with the E-POD. The big issues are still energy storage. One of the biggest hopefuls on the horizon is the Firefly battery 
http://www.fireflyenergy.com/main/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=93
They are working on an AFFORDABLE battery that operates with carbon fiber foam instead of lead. It will have 3-4 times the capacity of lead acid. 
Our motors were designed from the beginning to perform in a marine environment, and to have enough performance to keep up with the ICE's. We'll be taking a trip across Lake Michigan this summer with a 43' Columbia. Displacement is 22,000 lbs. We plan to go from Saint Joseph, MI to Chicago on battery power alone (55 miles). Then sail back to charge the batteries and return to the harbor. We are planning to take a couple of magazine writers with us to do articles on the adventure. We're actually hoping for some serious wind and wave action.

Kevin P
RE-E-POWER.com


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Kevin, I mean it as a compliment when I say it looks like you've upscaled reliable electric trolling motors to sailboat sizing. I mean, they work and work well!

I'm just curious how well they are protected from the salt water surrounding them. On most sailboats, we've got a shaft log that at least drips a little most of the time, and seawater incursion is expected. How do you keep the seawater *out* of your pods, and how well are the internals designed to cope with being flooded?

Could you comment on that side of things?


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sure thing. It's a very good and understandable question. I can't reveal too much right now simply because of prying eyes from competitors. I know they could just buy a motor and take it apart, but at least they have to buy a motor! 
Our system employs (very expensive) stainless steel sealed bearings on the inside of the motor. Beyond that, I will tell you that the man we hired (also very expensive) was a Naval Arch that has been building submarines in the private sector for almost 40 years. Needless to say, he knows what he's doing. The motors are basically designed to be in the water for more than 5 years without any trouble. The prop shaft is made to be just like the shaft that comes out of your boat on a traditional inboard. This is a nice feature if you should ever have a damaged prop and need to put a standard prop on the unit to get by for a time. It is also nice because you can put a standard shaft zinc on it between the motor and the prop. On top of all of that, the 2500 and 3000 come with a tube that goes to the bottom of the motor so that water can be detected and also removed if it is necessary. We have also allowed for an inspection hole (additional option) that we can run a bore scope into to inspect the internal components of the motor. This option also increases the warranty from 2 years to 4 years. Sorry for getting so wordy. 

Kevin Plank
RE-E-POWER.com


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Actually I'm open to having just about any publication that wants to go. Not sure they will all be on the same boat at the same time, (we don't want them fighting), but we will be putting out an invitation to most of the more popular and local pubs. Plans so far are for DIY, Good Old Boat, Latts and Atts, Northern Breezes, and a variety of others. Hopefully we can gain some ground in the educational curve.

Thanks
Kevin P
RE-E-POWER.com


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Genset too?*

Kevin, thanks for participating in the forum.

From the numbers given above, that would be a range of 6 to 8 miles with 4 group 31 batteries, or (assuming a linear slope) 16 miles off 8 large batteries. I would want two banks completely isolated with one in reserve.

I use my diesel mostly for getting in and out of dockage, but I also do use it to hold head up into the sea during a storm or when traversing an inlet pass and ICW. The above calculations seem to indicate that the electric system would suffice except for:
- Holding up for an extending period of time in heavy sea.
- Extended "need to get there" type cruising with no wind.
- Long trips on the ICW.

So, I'm now thinking that a diesel genset might be a needed addition, thus going true diesel-electric. The genset could use the old engine intake thru-hole and old exhaust.

Kevin, do you have any customers that use / plan to use the above configuration to extend the running time?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Yes, you're on the right track, and yes, there are quite a number of folks planning to run a genset for the reasons you stated. 
Ample power on the west coast has a great genset that can handle 100 amps at 48 volts and another one that will put out 200 amps at 48 volts. The other option would be to use an AC generator to power a 48 volt charger. You could for long periods with either of those options very sufficiently under most circumstances. 
Using the existing fittings and space for a "gotta have it" power supply, as well as having the gen available to run other house needs such as refrigeration and even an electric stove. Propane can be more of a hazard than diesel fuel. 

Kevin P
RE-E-POWER.com


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## Chuteman (May 23, 2006)

*Try Again?*

Kevin:
As I mentioned earlier in the thread.......it was a Solomon ST-37

First you say you can do 3-4 knots in calm seas & light breezes.......then you say you can punch thru anything a 20-30 hp diesel can do. At what speed are you punching?

Ok, let's say the genset is running, the seas are 5' with 20kt winds on a 40' monohull with 20k displacement ...........what's the expectation?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Punching, gensets, expectations...

Anyone planning to enter a "named" race, which at least in the US will probably be requiring ORC equipment conformance, will have to do their installation with these in mind:

ORC 2007 regulations:

3.28.3 A propulsion engine required by Special Regulations shall:- 
a) provide a minimum speed in knots of (1.8 x square root of LWL in metres) or (square root of LWL in feet) 
b) have a minimum amount of fuel which may be specified in the Notice of Race but if not, shall be sufficient to be able to meet charging requirements for the duration of the race and to motor at the above minimum speed for at least 8 hours 

And even not racing, it pays to bear in mind that the ORC regulations are an accepted common standard for offshore safety. Eight hours of motoring trying to hold off a lee shore could be considered way too short.


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

Shark, wind is always on the nose. Everyone knows that.


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

There's also something called we gotta get the hell out of here asap.


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## Chuteman (May 23, 2006)

*Maybe You?*

Mr. SB:
Remember your question that day when You need your engine for whatever reason in heavier weather, rig/sail failure or an emergency situation, then you can say to yourself & crew WTF / tack / or other smart ass comments


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

*Kevin?*

I'm just curious how well they are protected from the salt water surrounding them. On most sailboats, we've got a shaft log that at least drips a little most of the time, and seawater incursion is expected. How do you keep the seawater *out* of your pods, and how well are the internals designed to cope with being flooded?

_Could you comment on that side of things?_

Is the pod sealed, and expected to stay intact? Or is there a shaft seal, accessible "under" the prop, that needs adjustment from time to time? Or is this a "maintenance free" seal, i.e. that is intended and warranteed for ##### hours of use, to be pulled & returned for overhaul afterwards?

I know units bigger than this certainly can be sealed, IIRC even the QE2 is running on electric "pods" under the ship. I'm just asking how these units address that issue of seals and water incursion. And if water does get past the seal...does the whole pod have to come off the hull, or the boat hauled to repair it? Or can it be repaired and then, purged or something, without the need to haul?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

By the time I add up the pod, batteries and a genset, I'm approaching over budget. I am told by local marine shop that I can have a Yanmar 2 or 3 cylinder installed for about $8500. Does that sound like a reasonable repower cost?

I want powered cruising to be available for a couple of days, like on the ICW during bad weather.

Those are good questions on how the shaft can turn and not leak back into a fully submerged motor eventually.

PS. I have still not completely ruled out the re-e-power option, but I do know that I will be repowering in Jan. or Feb. at the latest, one way or the other.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi everyone, sorry I was away from the forum for a time. I see that there are several questions that need to be addressed and some that need to be re-visited. 
I'll respond to each of the posts separately to keep from getting confusing.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

<First you say you can do 3-4 knots in calm seas & light breezes.......then <you say you can punch thru anything a 20-30 hp diesel can do. At what <speed are you punching?
I think that there is some confusion between two different questions. The motors themselves are full able to "punch" through heavy seas with the performance of a 20-30 hp diesel. The other issue is for how long you can run in those conditions. The motors will do it, but the other side of the equation is how much capacity the batteries have. That is the main variable. The original question involved duration of run at 3-4 knots under easy conditions. Running for 2 hours would be a conservative figure under the light conditions stated. 

<Ok, let's say the genset is running, the seas are 5' with 20kt winds on a <40' <monohull with 20k displacement ...........what's the expectation?

This equation is very close to our 43' Columbia. I'll give you the quick answer on how the numbers worked out for us. We have a System 4000 on that size of boat. It has a continuous power equal to a 40-50 hp diesel. The motor is able to draw 160 amps at 48 volts continuously. And 600 amps for short periods of time. 600 amps at 48 volts is like having the temp thrust of a 120 hp ICE. The issue then becomes one of duration. Our Columbia has sixteen 6 volt batteries. Two banks of 8 batteries to make 48 volts each. With this formula we plan to run the boat on batteries from St Joe, MI to Chicago (about 55 miles) in about 10-12 hours (4-5 knots). The hull speed on the boat is 9.1 knots. I hope this helps to clear up some of the confusion.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Now as for the issue of water ingress into the motor. I'll re-paste the earlier post and hopefully clear this issue up as well. 

<Our system employs (very expensive) stainless steel sealed bearings on the inside of the motor. Beyond that, I will tell you that the man we hired (also very expensive) was a Naval Arch that has been building submarines in the private sector for almost 40 years. Needless to say, he knows what he's doing. The motors are basically designed to be in the water for more than 5 years without any trouble. The prop shaft is made to be just like the shaft that comes out of your boat on a traditional inboard. This is a nice feature if you should ever have a damaged prop and need to put a standard prop on the unit to get by for a time. It is also nice because you can put a standard shaft zinc on it between the motor and the prop. On top of all of that, the 2500 and 3000 come with a tube that goes to the bottom of the motor so that water can be detected and also removed if it is necessary. We have also allowed for an inspection hole (additional option) that we can run a bore scope into to inspect the internal components of the motor. This option also increases the warranty from 2 years to 4 years.

I would also like to add that the motor is designed to be run no less than 5000 hours without leaks. All of this is mute if the motor is damaged. We have a 50% core exchange as well. If, after the warranty is run out, you want or need to replace the motor you will get 50% of the purchase price applied to a factory overhaul. If the factory is gone (heaven forbid). All of the parts will be available and the bearings, seals, and brushes can be replaced from off the shelf parts.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The last one,

"By the time I add up the pod, batteries and a genset, I'm approaching over budget. I am told by local marine shop that I can have a Yanmar 2 or 3 cylinder installed for about $8500. Does that sound like a reasonable repower cost?"
If what you need is a system 3000, you'll spend about $5,500.00 on motor, installation and batteries. What you spend beyond that could be anywhere from $2K to $10K depending on how elaborate you want to get. Keep in mind that a generator will also be handy for running power for other house power needs.
-
"I want powered cruising to be available for a couple of days, like on the ICW during bad weather."
The motor draws 3800 watts under full continuous (max cruise) power. Charging the batteries via a genset, or by using an AC generator via a battery charger would enable you to cruise under continuous power. Of course we haven't mentioned the use of solar, Wind gens, or the regenerative use of the motor itself under sail. 
-
"Those are good questions on how the shaft can turn and not leak back into a fully submerged motor eventually."
Again, this is an issue that has been thought through completely and explained earlier. I would be happy to answer any questions about this in detail on a one to one basis. 

I hope that this helps!

Kevin P
RE-E-POWER.com


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

In summary it looks like an aux genset would be a mandatory requirement for the system to be viable for a cruiser and needing power at any time.

So, considering the percentage of sail time vs. time under power, the question is generator size. Would a small air cooled stand alone genset from Home Depot work (doubt it)?

I want pure electric with pure electric regeneration from sail, ideally. That is not going to happen. OTOH, if I have to have a diesel generator with a water cooling system and exhaust I might as well have a diesel propulsion engine with an alternator and the standard house battery bank.

I guess what I'm looking for is a trade-off list. It's real easy to do a conventional repower, but I really like the possibility of having self regeneration energy and no pollution.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Let's just all hope that fuel doesn't go over 5 bucks a gallon like they're saying it will this summer.


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## Chuteman (May 23, 2006)

*Very Good*

KP:
Thanks so very much for your responses, They are very realistic & balanced which is so helpful for anyone interested or considering e-power.
Best to You & your firm as you help expand the market & make advances for even better configurations in the future.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thank you! 
We're very hopeful about the future. We are always looking for input to improve the product and seeking out new technologies to make this a more viable and affordable alternative. 
I hope all of you have the best year ever!

Kevin Plank
RE-E-POWER.com


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Thanks, Kevin. I suppose a submarine designer would be a good man for the job, I guess those little research subs ARE all using this kind of technology, duh!<G>

"Let's just all hope that fuel doesn't go over 5 bucks a gallon "
Much as I will hate seeing that, it may be a very good thing for us all when (not if) that happens. $5 is supposed to be the magic price point where all sorts of alternative fuel synthesis processes become economically feasible, at which point we can have investors funding a domestic synfuel industries and we can tell OPEC "Go pound sand!".I was figuring another 2 years or so, expecting to see $4.25 as the shock point this summer with a "relief" back down to $3.75-ish in the fall. And a similar bump again in 2008.


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## progersk (Jul 27, 2006)

Interesting Forum. I too am looking into this, although I have pretty much decided that I need to go with a Deisel Electric system. The power demands are just too much, particularly if one adds other "neccessary" house goodies such as refrigeration and a blender for the margaritas. I am also thinking two drives - one mounted on each side of the existing rudder. (Hinckley Pilot 35' w/full keel) This should give me some close quarters handling that one just doesn't get with a single prop. I am likley going to hold off for at least one more season. The technology and players seem to be getting sorted out.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

That's a good point. The units are unique in that they can be mounted off center from a full keel. They don't take the traditional space inside the boat so having the space to mount them opens up a lot more possiblities. The added steering under power is a big plus.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I would like to take a moment to take off my 'RE-E-POWER" hat and ask a question as a member. Does anyone know about the tax credits that are available to EV purchases? Do they apply to electric boats? Do they apply to conversions? This may be an important finacial aid that is being overlooked, and it would certainly help get the EV industry over the hump.

Thanks!
Kevin P


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Kevin, is there any magic to using the propulsion batteries as a 12V supply as well? Or will an e-power solution also require a 12v bank and genset for the regular ship's power?


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

THANKS for the link! That's good information. 
As for using the motor batteries for the house supply, we now have a DC to DC converter that we are going to stock. It's only $249.00 USD and it will work with 36 - 70 volts. So it will cover our product range. You can run it to a 12v house battery or you could simply run your 12 volt house straight from the converter. We will have specs on the website soon. We're pretty happy with this product. The quality and price are right on track. 

Kevin P
RE-E-POWER


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## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

I am only posting this here because my MAC it severly limiting my use of this website and I can't post new threads. It might be of help to all of us who have been thinking about electric converions. Last night while lying awake i came to a huge revelation (in my own head at least). After a year of planning my electric drive sysytem, lying awake thinking and worrying how i will come up with all the $ i realized i was barking up the wrong tree.....BIODIesel is the answer. I already have a yanmar, I don't have to do anything but add a few more f/filters and start blending the fuel. I can walk to a place where they sell it from my house. 5 gallon containers are 18 bucks, you just retun them and they get re-filled. There is very little net CO2 production because the plants grown to make it absorb C02. Once you get to 100% bd, the overall exaust is 85% cleaner than regular diesel. It lubricates the engine better so they last longer. The only downside is gelling (at 40 deg f) but my boat is usually out of the water by then. If i still need cold weather use i can add anti gel or mix in a little dino diesel. Also the solvents in BD will cause clogged f/filters as they dissolve old deposits. I might just replace my old fuel lines to avoid this problem. Has anyone else her switched over yet? Let me know pros/cons. It sure seems better than 700lbs of 2,000 dollar batts


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

SouthernCross31-

What browser and mac are you on? I don't have any issues, and I'm on a 12" PB running OS X and using Camino. FireFox works pretty well too. Safari has some issues IIRC, but I haven't used it as my primary browser in a long while.


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## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

I'm running os x on a new imac. I can't view photos, forums or much else. All i can do is go to the home page and see the most recent posts. I went to the library yesterday to view my pm's but i can't even log on there. I'm not sure what the problem is but it does not exist on any other chatrooms (i.e.Cruiser forum) when i log on with my MAC. Now the mystery deepens....oh well. 
You mentioned sailing in BBay, do you live on the Cape? I'm stuck out in western MA for now (can't get my wife to leave). Although I am down there about once a week to work on the boat. This winter has been torture...no snow for skiing and now frigind weather (although we needed it) so i haven't gotten much done recently. I think i am headed down Sunday though, just to sit in the damn thing and dream .


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

SC31-

What browser are you using? Also, do you have any of the security features, like not allowing scripts to run, turned on? If so, that could be the problem. PM me with more specific info about your setup, and I'll see if I can help you trouble shoot it. 

I don't live on the Cape, but up in the Boston area, but I sail down on Buzzards Bay out of New Bedford. Winter has been torture for me too... and the lack of snow hasn't been helping...


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Southerncross-
Biodiesel sure interests me, but as I understand it no diesel engine maker will warranty their engine if 100% biodiesel or WVO is used to run it, and that makes me think twice. I hear too much from folks selling biodiesel as a Holy Miracle, akin to late night TV preachers, and I know the snakeoil merchants are on to the game.
Then too, at $18/5 gallons, you're paying $3.60 per gallon and that's a buck more than I saw dinodiesel selling for yesterday! I'd be more tempted to do the WVO route if I was going to do it that way, and willing to install dual tanks and feed lines and all that other stuff.
For someone who doesn't use much in any case, it just seems cheaper & simpler to burn dinofuel, rather than trying to save the earth solo.


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## Shack (Sep 5, 2006)

*Grounding?*

KevPlank,
Sorry I missed most of this thread. I saw it back in December, but have been away for a while.

If you are still checking this thread please respond to the re-e-power system in regards to what would happen with a grounding. It appears that the mounting of the pod under the hull would present severe damage should the vessel run into the mud or bottom out at low tide. Are there alternate means for mounting the pod so that the prop is in a more traditional location?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Decided on traditional diesel*

I finally decided to just get a new Yanmar 3YM20 installed. This is a picture of the engine sitting on the pallet right before installation.

As of now the installation is complete and in use! Great power and very little vibration. I hope this picture post works, first time..


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

People be carefull if you buy this he can not deliver after 6 months and he is incomunicado My question is re e power stil in bussiness? System was payet complete on odering 6 moths ago.

this is not heresay this is experience


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I've been looking at using a RE-E Power electric drive on my C&C Corvette, and this last post...zeilerman 4/08 has me a bit worried. Any recent interaction with Re-E-Power?


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## zerryda1 (Jan 23, 2008)

Beware of this company. This was a very expensive mistake:

I ordered and paid for two (2) of the Series 3000 electric boat motor units from Re-e-power in March of 2008 with a delivery date of approximately six weeks later (May 2008). The kits were to include motors, controllers, propellers, throttle controls, amp gauges, charging monitors and wiring harnesses. It took well OVER A YEAR to receive all the components. Even after all that time I had to purchase two (2) propellers myself from a different supplier. (Re-e-power recalled the original two (2) propellers they shipped to me but never shipped me replacements.) Kevin and I negotiated a longer warranty against defective parts to make up for the lack of propellers. I installed the complete system in late May 2009. One motor worked for a day. The other worked for about 3 weeks. Upon inspection it was determined the motors stopped working due to a factory defect that caused water intrusion in both motors. Re-e-power sent new parts (brushes and springs) telling me how serviceable the motors are and I could fix them while they negotiated with the factory to replace the defective units.

One motor was determined, by a local electric motor shop, not to be salvageable. I replaced the brushes and spring, per Re-e-power’s direction, in the other motor. It worked for 15 minutes. Per Re-e-powers directions I replaced the brushes and springs again, and the motor worked for about 2 minutes. I asked Re-e-power for new motors or some other kind of resolution / compensation on 8/26/09. At that time Re-e-power stopped communicating with me. I filed a BBB complaint back on 11/01/09. It is now 12/08/2009 and I have not heard from Re-e-power.

Since Re-e-power did not reply to my emails I was forced to power my boat with alternative methods. This cost me considerable time and expense. Hauling my boat out for repairs to the Re-e-power units alone cost me over $1000.00. I have lost two sailing seasons due to Re-e-power’s lack of customer support and defective products. Since I have repowered my boat by other means. I used a 48 volt sysytem with a Mars Eteck motor and a gear reducer transmission powering the original prop shaft. 

The boat goes faster drawing less amps than the Re-e-power setup. Go figure.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Notwithstanding the problems with Re-e-power's business practices, I don't understand why using the original prop and shaft isn't done more often. It's already there, is in the proper place per design, and makes a lot more sense to me than hanging an expensive electric motor in the water where it can have issues. Not to mention the drag. Here's a link to a photo series of a guy who repowered his Newport 28 with electric. E-POD 3000+ - Petaris' Photos
If you go to the last series of pics you'll see the problems he had.


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## Mark F (Mar 7, 2006)

Hi Brian,

I think most electric repower jobs are inboard using existing prop shaft.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Mark
That makes sense to me. Most of the examples I've seen were the opposite. Putting all that gear underwater seems like a backward step. Like a saildrive.


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## COOL (Dec 1, 2009)

Operating an electric motor underwater
sounds like a bad idea from the start,
and a pod type arrangement makes no 
sense for an auxiliary sailboat.
Electric propulsion may not be quite ready
for general audiences, yet, but it is definitely
on the horizon. A few more sharp spikes in
fuel prices, and this technology will get worked out
real fast.


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## Sueballu (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re-e-power*

Hi
I can not help to reply re these electric motors. We are in Australia and after much research and planning we decided to purchase electric motors for our 38' wharram cat. Even met Kevin at the 2007 Sydney Boat show after 6 months of communication. WE sent the full purchase price for 2 x 3000 Cat pack complete with all components for approx $9000 Aus dollars. It took a year to receive the motors(afte a lot of hasseling)- no controls or props. In 2008 we met two other people who had purchased these motors - they were still having problems, but at least they had all the components. They were both knowledgable on mechanical and electrical issues and were advising Kevin on their attempts to improve these motors. Kevins response was " I like you Aussie's you try and fix issues instead of complaining". One person eventually had to take a pod apart after no communication from Kevin, he found they were poorly built with many different metals. At this stage we tried to communicatre to Kevin we were sending our unused still packaged motors back as we had not recieved controllers and we had lost all confidence in his product. He replied saying he had received another order so he was able to order our controllers - 2 years after paying full price for the kit! At this stage we just wanted amotor so we could move the boat . 
Kevin has not replied to anything - we even paid for a solicitor to write a letter of demand. We have just saved enough to purchase Torqueedo motors - and have found that there is at least 4 Australians who have purchased from Kevin and have lost their money - they do not work and he will not communicate. DO NOT DEAL WITH THIS COMPANY!
uke


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Sue-
Depending on where and how you placed the order and what was shipped...By all means remember that you can FIX SOMETHING HERE rather than just be a victim. There are local, state, and federal complaints to be filed either in the US or Oz, criminal complaints that basically require you to file them and then the government takes over. Once a certain $ threshold is crossed, in the US it automatically becomes a matter for the FBI not just local authorities. AU$9k might well cross a threshold, in both nations.
In the US that might include our Postal Inspectors for mail fraud or wire fraud, for taking the order and then not fulfilling it. A lot of bounders will ignore anything you have to say--but when the postal inspectors say "_We're cutting off all mail delivery_ and looking into jail and fines for you" they sit up and take notice, because without the mails they have a harder time stealing more money from new victims.
Ask your authorities, ask our authorities (USPS.COM should have a referral link to the government postal inspectors, the "post office" is just a .com here) and by all means--sic 'em on the guy. What will it cost you? The price of a letter or a notary stamp?


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## roline (Apr 7, 2000)

I like the idea, but it does not appear to be a system engineered for a marine application. It is too klugy, a bunch of components poorly tied together in a prototype way, non marinized. You'd be better off with a couple stern mounted trolling motors... Keep the diesels until this idea has been truly designed for the marine market.
ps, I did an internet search and their domain is no longer functioning, but they still have a site on E-Bay. They were located..
Re-E-Power
1229 W Franklin St
Elkhart, IN 46516
(574) 522-2400


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## mnikisher (Mar 13, 2010)

*Another RE-E-POWER Victim*

I purchased an EPOD 3000 system in September of 2007. Kevin took so long to dribble parts out to me that I started a complete refit of my boat. Well here it is 2010 and the boat is ready to go back into the water and the EPOD motor is frozen solid.

I have been looking at a Mars 3001 motor based system to replace the EPOD but have not figured out how to gear it properly. Would you mind telling me how and what you used in your system?



zerryda1 said:


> Beware of this company. This was a very expensive mistake:
> 
> I ordered and paid for two (2) of the Series 3000 electric boat motor units from Re-e-power in March of 2008 with a delivery date of approximately six weeks later (May 2008). The kits were to include motors, controllers, propellers, throttle controls, amp gauges, charging monitors and wiring harnesses. It took well OVER A YEAR to receive all the components. Even after all that time I had to purchase two (2) propellers myself from a different supplier. (Re-e-power recalled the original two (2) propellers they shipped to me but never shipped me replacements.) Kevin and I negotiated a longer warranty against defective parts to make up for the lack of propellers. I installed the complete system in late May 2009. One motor worked for a day. The other worked for about 3 weeks. Upon inspection it was determined the motors stopped working due to a factory defect that caused water intrusion in both motors. Re-e-power sent new parts (brushes and springs) telling me how serviceable the motors are and I could fix them while they negotiated with the factory to replace the defective units.
> 
> ...


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## Lavatube (Mar 24, 2010)

*Re-e-power woes, 2 dead motors*

I had a similar problem with my pair of motors from re-e-power dying prematurely, and Re-e-power (Kevin Plank) has refused to respond to email, phone, skype, BBB complaint, or certified mail. My story is on my site: lachat dot com. /node/120


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## Architeuthis (Mar 3, 2008)

Re-e-power can be a lesson for those wanting to do something like this.

I first saw the system partly installed in a homebuilt cat. The builder was very smart but not too comfortable with electrical issues. The ease with which such a system could be installed had been grossly over stated for someone with his background.

When I looked at the system I knew I could get it working pretty much as designed, but then I actually worked in a department that did prototyping and manufacturing of limited or one off systems. There was no way the average builder was going to put together that system without major time and money and even then I doubt they would get the performance or relaiblity they expected.

I recommended pulling out everything, ebay all of it and buying outboards. Eventually that happened but it took a while for the dream to die.

Here are some of the warning flags when I first looked at re-e-power.

*Small business run by an Engineer.*

This should ALWAYS be a huge warning to everyone other than Engineers. If you do not understand why, run do not walk from such companies. I'm not knocking Engineers but it is very rare indeed for a person to have the skill sets needed to develop such products and also have the skill sets needed to operate a business, interface with customer problems, handle the little annoying and endless details of getting and keeping such systems running, and handle all the ordering, shipping, money, taxes and other key issues of running a custom electrical drive business. These guys prototype, that's what they like to do and do best. If they have a team then it can work. That way they can hand off some of that crap to someone like me.

*Only prototypes used for display or example. *

When I saw that no Re-E-Power system had been run for more than a few hours I knew this was not a kit. A proper kit has many installed examples, many commissioning reports, lots of data, and there should be one example of it being installed in your boat model. If you are the first person to install the "kit" in your boat then you need to be the type of person who can do it without a kit.

*Lack of data on parts.*

There was almost no data on the parts, no posted manuals, no information on how the system worked what the objectives were, in short a complete lack of key information needed to design and install the system.

If you are considering installing these types of "kits" you do not need the "kit". You will be far ahead of the game to sit down design your own system, source your own parts and install it yourself. If that is too much then such a "kit" is not for you.

If Re-E-Power was properly run they would have had many more successful installations before advertising, and then taken on only a few customers until they had the bugs worked out.

One last thing. 
*Never buy the person.* Everybody I talked to about this company, were sold on the "guy". He was such a nice guy, such a smart guy. The guy is not going to push your boat through a swell. Sure that is how people buy everything yet it is a really bad way to buy a prototype kit.

In this case I easily sourced all the parts cheaper (of course he had no volume yet had to mark up) and got lots of needed data at the same time.

I hope everyone gets their money back and future people considering such systems learn from Re-E-Power.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

*One other point-if you're buying a major purchase for your boat, use a credit card.* You have many more options, especially in the United States, if you bought with a credit card. Buying with cash or check is relatively stupid IMHO, since it gives you little recourse if the vendor does not come through with the goods. While it may cost you a tiny bit more to purchase using a credit card, the reassurances it gives you are generally worth it.


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