# Big Prob with racing



## lapworth (Dec 19, 2008)

O.K. I tried to post on spin sheets with people who said they need crew then when I say I would like too crew litttle or no responce. If you guys want new racers, well you have to help us when we ask to get involved.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

Racers want to fill their crews with the most experienced, skilled people they can find. If you have those skills, you're likely to get invited aboard. The last people chosen will be the ones with the least experience. If you don't have experience, then your best likelihood to get on board a racing yacht is to go to the docks from which racers are leaving on race day, and ask them if anyone needs extra crew. Often they don't need skilled crew. They just need extra crew on the rail. Go out with them, and watch, and listen, and learn. After you have developed some skills, you'll be invited back. The hard truth is that you have to learn and earn a position on a race boat. Don't think you're the only person with this problem. I have often had to prove myself, even though I've had a good racing record for 30 years. The skipper of a racing boat has no way of knowing how good you are until you show him. Don't be discouraged. It takes time.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

If captains aren't willing to take a risk by bringing on a little new blood, then how do they expect the sport to continue?

I'm glad my captain didn't feel the way you describe. I was invited because although I don't know s---, I've been aggressive and soaking up every bit of knowledge with an open mind.

Sure, I was only rail meat but yesterday was probably the most exciting thing I've ever done. The skipper/owner and the rest of the crew are an outstanding bunch. No screaming, lots of laughter, very laid back. By only having the responsibility of being ballast, I was able to observe and learn so much.

I've been invited back for more. I'm sure that training for more advanced tasks will follow. I greatly appreciate the owner and crew taking a chance on me as a total newb.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

I think IF you put in the time to get to know some local people you will find the RIGHT boat 

And the RIGHT boat like Bubble found is worth the wait as i have gone on many boats ONCE


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Sailormon6 said:


> Racers want to fill their crews with the most experienced, skilled people they can find. If you have those skills, you're likely to get invited aboard. The last people chosen will be the ones with the least experience. If you don't have experience, then your best likelihood to get on board a racing yacht is to go to the docks from which racers are leaving on race day, and ask them if anyone needs extra crew. Often they don't need skilled crew. They just need extra crew on the rail. Go out with them, and watch, and listen, and learn. After you have developed some skills, you'll be invited back. The hard truth is that you have to learn and earn a position on a race boat. Don't think you're the only person with this problem. I have often had to prove myself, even though I've had a good racing record for 30 years. The skipper of a racing boat has no way of knowing how good you are until you show him. Don't be discouraged. It takes time.


Yeah, I imagine there are one or two fleets on the Chesapeake where skippers can be that picky, but even then its probably bad for racing overall.

At most other places, skippers are willing to take folks on and give some OJT in order to build a base of crew they can call on. I know I never would have been aboard a sailboat in a race were it not for Fishing Bay Yacht Clubs crew recuiting efforts. The boat I ended up crewing on had a few life time sailors, a couple of evolving landlubbers, and my wife and with experince levels between those extremes. They were thrilled to death when after the first tack on our first time aboard my wife coiled the lazy sheet and prepared it for the next tack and we've been invited back ever since. I've done a bunch or around the bouys races, a few long distance races and did Down the Bay from Annapolis to Hampton with these guys. In all that time we often would have a new guy aboard so the skipper has a cadre to call on. FBYC actively recruits and trains landlubbers to provide crew for their skippers. They do both land based training before the season starts and on the water training before the spring series starts so even a greenhorn will come aboard with a clue as to what's going on.

The experience I got through participting with FBYC gave me the confidence to enter my own boat in a couple of races, and I might try some more. I don't think I'd ever raced my boat, without having had the opportunty to crew, so I can attest to any club official reading this that outreach programs are important if you are trying to build a fleet/promote sailboat racing.

The fact is that there are only a few fleets where its so competitive that a boat can't afford some developmental crew, and developing crew is important for racing overall and the future of the sailing club. Clubs should recognize this and promote crew development in their "beer can" fleets. Where else are the experienced crew for the hot fleets going to come from?


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

Football and baseball and hockey teams fill their core positions with the most skilled players available. Yacht racing teams are no different. Nobody expects a baseball coach to put a totally inexperienced player in as shortstop, or pitcher, or catcher, as long as there are experienced players available. Likewise, a racing team prefers experienced racing sailors to work the pit or the foredeck. If they can't find an experienced person, they'll take on an intelligent, eager, newbie and teach him what he needs to know. Complaining about the unfairness of it, or faulting skippers because they want the best crew they can find isn't going to help anyone get on a racing boat. 

There are generally two types of racing. The more serious racing happens on weekends, and that's when skippers want their best crews. On weeknights, usually Wednesdays, boats go out for the more casual beer can races. Those are the races where skippers are most likely to take on newbies and teach them. If you didn't get an invitation to crew after putting your name on the Spinsheet crewlist, your next best chance is to find out when beer can racing takes place in your area and walk the docks where racing boats are sailing from, and let it be known that you're available.

If you're not just a newbie at racing, but also at sailing, then go to your local marina and find someone who needs crew to help sail his or her boat. Often marina employees can direct you to an older person who needs help sailing his boat. A newbie can learn a great deal about basic boat handling from such a person. If you can demonstrate basic skills when you crew on a racing boat, you'll be more likely to be invited back.


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## lapworth (Dec 19, 2008)

I have no racing experience but I have been sailing my boat up and down the Bay for 3 years. When I replied to the ads in Spin Sheets I only responded to the one that didn't ask for experienced sailing racers. My question is why do you post you need crew, then when I respond I am told dont need crew ? I would understand if they said the position was filled or I am not what they need. Instead I get alot of " well looks like most of my crew is comming back so if anything changes, I will let you know."


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## RaptorAT (Mar 29, 2010)

lapworth said:


> O.K. I tried to post on spin sheets with people who said they need crew then when I say I would like too crew litttle or no responce. If you guys want new racers, well you have to help us when we ask to get involved.


OK you want to race up on the Chesapeake. Go to Downtown Sailing Center in baltimore.
downtownsailing.org

Join. Learn to race on J22s/Sonars. Learn the skills. I promise you once you learn how to race you will slowly meet other weekend racers. Then you will be able to race more nights then you could continue to race with us or if you want it is easy to end up being asked on boats tuesday ,wednesday, thursday, friday, sat ,sunday. I will admit I have never been asked to race on a monday. 
Don't be negative come out and sail. Racing sailboats is a blast.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

One reason that you may not have gotten a response yet is that the racing season has not begun in earnest. I have yet to receive the usual spring, "Whose on board this year?" email from the boats that I normally race on. Skippers typically look who is coming back after last year, and then once they know what thier core crew look like, will add crew as needed. That may only happen a few weeks before racing season, expecially on the boats that go out for a practice session before the first race, or do a "throw-away" race as practice. 

You can also follow-up with the skippers who have not responded and let them know that you are seriously interested in their specific boat since the year that I was on Spinsheet's crew needed list I was overwelmed with interested folks and only had one spot open. 

Jeff

Jeff


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## jarcher (Jul 29, 2008)

Spin Sheets? What's that?

Recruiting crew is difficult, even here in Rhode Island where you would think it would be easy. Finding crew members who are ambitious and willing to learn off the boat as well as on is even more difficuly. Finding crew who will make time to practice, well...

Last winter I had this crazy idea that I woudl find a stable crew and one person would become an expert at main sail trim, another at head sail trim and so on... I even provided books no one opened! HAHAHAHA!

In fact you need two complete crews and spares. People available on Tuesday night are not available on weekends or even on Monday night. People available on Monday night, same thing in reverse. People available on weekends have other things do do many weekends. Finding people willing and able to take a week off for a race week? Dream on!

Of course if you want to win, you need to find a crew that is stable and will practice together. That may be the biggest challenge in the sport, at least for amateurs!


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## RaptorAT (Mar 29, 2010)

Spinsheet is the Chesapeake bay's Sailing Magazine.


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## jarcher (Jul 29, 2008)

RaptorAT said:


> Spinsheet is the Chesapeake bay's Sailing Magazine.


Thanks... If someone took the time and expense to put an add in a magazine offering themself as crew, I would be impressed!


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

when i was living in chicago i found a friend of a friend who had a boat and did the beer can races out of belmont harbour. they were in classes, so while he was fairly recreational it got me some face time in front of the more experienced crews, then socialize at the bar after... after a while people get to know you...


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## RaptorAT (Mar 29, 2010)

jarcher said:


> Thanks... If someone took the time and expense to put an add in a magazine offering themself as crew, I would be impressed!


You misunderstand, people do not take out ads they do crew listings or boat listings. The sailing magazine hosts a rather nice crew listing service. Check it out 
SpinSheet - Crew Listings

Basically you can search for a boat or crew based on experience, boat size, ect. It is useful but not as useful as just simply getting to know sailors that race.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

SpinSheet has a crew finder party every year, and used to, and I assume still has a 'crew exchange' on their website, where boats that need crew, and crew who need boats can get together.

Jeff


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Yeah - but do you really want to be the poor schlubs with no pfds out on the "crewtapult"? Dog, what would you tell these fellows regarding safety?










PS - Is this the poor man's canting keel?


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

see her name? lol.... safety?!? its a _mystery_


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

lapworth said:


> O.K. I tried to post on spin sheets with people who said they need crew then when I say I would like too crew litttle or no responce. If you guys want new racers, well you have to help us when we ask to get involved.


It sounds like they're having a kick off the season crew party. From their site:

The SpinSheet Crew Listing Parties will take place April 18 at the Annapolis Maritime Museum from 4 - 6 p.m. and April 3 at Marker 20 in Hampton. Stay tuned for details.

Just sounds like you're a little early is all.

Lot's of good advice on the thread, particularly pursuing the weekday evening beer can races as a way to find rides. This works particularly well if it's blowing 15+... everyone wants rail meat. Start from there and work your way up.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> Yeah - but do you really want to be the poor schlubs with no pfds out on the "crewtapult"? *Dog, what would you tell these fellows regarding safety?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not a dog, but I have a nice one! Safety? I'd tell these folks absolutely nothing. They're big boys and girls that are sailing very old boats that have done it this was long before we were born. I think they can take care of themselves. I'd happily sit out there with them w/o a pfd. The water's warm as is the weather.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Hey, I actually think it looks fun. Well as fun as sitting on a plank of wood can be. 

I'd just like to see the hands up "roller coaster" style.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

lapworth said:


> O.K. I tried to post on spin sheets with people who said they need crew then when I say I would like too crew litttle or no responce. If you guys want new racers, well you have to help us when we ask to get involved.


I don't remember where you're located, but here's what I got so far. Let me know if you can make these...

5/15 NNSA round the buoys
5/28 - 5/29 Down the Bay Race
6/4 - 6/6 Southern Bay Race week
7/18 - 7/20 Screwpile Lighthouse Challenge
7/24 NNSA round the buoys
7/30 - 7/31 Governor's Cup
9/25 - 9/16	NNSA Saturday Triangle course, Sunday pursuit race.


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## lapworth (Dec 19, 2008)

Maybe I jumped the gun but I just dont understand word on the street is that everyone wants you too come out and practice. Well I just thought we where running out of practice time and that the season was ready to kick off. Thanks zz I am up near Annapolis and I already offered to do the Down the Bay Race with you, I was looking for some local weekday races near Annp. I would race my own boat but it isn't fitted very well and I have no idea how to Start. I was hoping to learn the rules of racing this year on others boats and then maybe fix mine up down the road for racing. I'll keep looking too crew I just hate waiting by the pier makes me feel like a stalker.


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## jarcher (Jul 29, 2008)

lapworth said:


> ... Well I just thought we where running out of practice time and that the season was ready to kick off.


Practice happens all season long ;-) If there is a weekend or an evening without a race and the crew can get together, go practice!

Maybe attend the skippers meeting and offer your services...


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

You can sail almost 7 days a week in annapolis. Send an email to APS and ask about local racing. They offered me a ride sight unseen for their friday night series. 

APS = annapolis performance sailing. 

Annapolis yacht club is another place to walk the docks. Bring some beer and you'll catch a ride. The people who practice in the "off season" are the boats that have regular crew and don't really need extra bodies.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

puddinlegs said:


> I'm not a dog, but I have a nice one! Safety? I'd tell these folks absolutely nothing. They're big boys and girls that are sailing very old boats that have done it this was long before we were born. I think they can take care of themselves. I'd happily sit out there with them w/o a pfd. The water's warm as is the weather.


Besides they're all experience sailors. Its the black shoes that give them away.


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## scarton (Jul 9, 2001)

So, where are you located?


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## JStorm (Apr 3, 2010)

Lapworth ( and other new racers),
Cool you're wanting to start sailboat racing. The good news is that you're in! Sounds like you have a ride on an active race boat. Boats want newbies. 
Here's the only catch:
You gotta care and you gotta show up. You can get info from your local sailing YC/club. 

Yep, every skipper would love to have crew that are experienced, strong/athletic, dedicated, devoted, attentive, proper weight, smart, badass boat monkeys. Fact is, all you need to do is commit. I think there is alwYs someone looking for crew. These guys are experts at reading crew and are looking for someone that wants to really try hard and show up to every race. 
Skippers need to fill a position. There are lots of positions that are mostly shifting weight and not going OB.
Some events are not going to have room for crew with no experience. For each of those races, there are 10 that you can get in on. Walking the docks and asking around is all part of it. Club racers welcome inexperienced guys that are enthusiastic about getting involved in the sport they love.
If the first boat you race on isn't for you, try again.
Welcome to the sport.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

So was just thinking about the last post and about things NOT to do on a race boat.

Don't ask questions.
Don't be pro active.
Don't be attentive. This one's difficult. Lot's of examples... light air, you continue sitting on the windward rail, and when you do move, you move like an elephant on crack. You're the mast person, the spin trimmer asks for pole tip up. You don't listen or care enough to level the butt end of the pole until asked 3 or 4 times. You're sitting on the rail and don't call puffs and waves for the driver and main trimmer. It's light air again. The trimmers are working their butts off to make the boat go. You're asking them if they caught American Idol last week. You don't take occasion to look up the course to see what other boats are doing. Are they lifted? headed? Wind velocity changes? You don't ask who you're main competition is, nor are you ever aware where they are. You've sailed on the same ride for 3-4 seasons, and you don't know any other position on the boat because you don't take opportunities or have the desire to learn them, etc... The list is long, and some of the above assumes that you already have experience. 

If you don't, what should you do? Listen intently to everything. Make notes after the race. Think about where you've been and what you've heard. Ask more experienced crew and or the skip plenty of "why?" and "how?" after the race. Sitting on the rail is only boring if you're not using it as an opportunity to learn. Help rig and de-rig the boat. Sure, you're bound to make a mistake, but have regular crew check you're work. Hammering it home, keep your eyes and ears open. Concentration is worth more than raw talent, and often even more than much greater experience. Work hard at learning to anticipate what's going to happen and when. This is very important for everyone, but if you have ambitions to learning bow, this is what makes you THE bowman as opposed to A bowman. I'll stop here by giving the quick example of a friend who only started sailing a season ago. She asks loads of questions on the rail. She's not trimming during races (yet... this is a very competitive boat with a deep talent pool), but asks about what to watch and what we're looking for. She regularly volunteers for deliveries and takes them as an opportunity to do jobs and put into practice things she might not yet do during a race. She's very proactive and has developed a very nice 'boat sense'. Something needs to be done and it's within her reach, she does it. She asks about tactics while she's on the rail. It's a joy to sail with her even though she's the least experienced. When I think of "how to be good crew" without having decades of experience, she's it.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Another tid bit, for the owner, the race started at end of last season to get the boat prepared for the next season. Your race starts at the moment you show up on the dock, and ends when the skipper is happy how the boat is put away. Good racers show up an hour before 'dock call' to record wind pressure and shifts. 

Another tip, don't get upset if the skipper turns out to be a d!ck. Lots of egos on the race course, do NOT take it personal. 

My first race was on a C&C 35 down in the southern Ches bay. I had to drive 3.5 hours to get there and 3.5 hours back. I didn't care one bit about the drive, I had a ride.


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## JStorm (Apr 3, 2010)

Puddin,
probably this topics over? Gotta get last word!
Yep, I hear ya. I guess I was tryin to highlight the bright side for new folks. Fact is, there's a lot of hard work, dedication, unpleasant situations, yelling, and EFFORT involved in getting going in the sport. A high level of intelegen e and dedication is expected. All real racers have spent lots of money and time to do well and compete. Some guys are dicks on the course. OK, lots of guys. 
Most of the "dickness" is a result of frustration due to these guys own 
ineptitude at running their boat well.
Still newbies are wanted. Again, what's needed is dedicated folks that will commit, learn, work hard, and contribute to the effort to win races. 
Of course, there are "fun" races available too - for the true newbie. Ask around and you will find what you're looking for. 
If involved in real racing always think. Always think "FAST.". Always think "can I do anything to go faster?". As puddin said, learn from the experienced (and pick your teachers). Also , along puddins ideas?, you gotta read the guys and the situation and not burden them with things that aren't relative at the time. After all, all those guys are thinking FAST!
Max Boatspeed


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