# Worst Sailboats Ever!



## fiatracer163 (Oct 21, 2011)

Everyone always talks about the best blue water cruiser or the best PHRF racing boat, but no one talks about the worst boats ever and what makes them bad. In my mind it's almost as important to learn about the bad sailboats and what design aspects make them bad. 

The MacGregor 26 comes to mind but I have never stepped foot on one and cannot comment on how bad they really are. I can't think about how a 60 HP motor on the back of a light sailboat will make it handle under sail. I also wonder how many of the Mac 26's that were given away on the Price is Right (without motors) were sold for pennies on the dollar. Other than the Mac 26 have there been any true failures in sailboat design?


----------



## Mr. Bubs (Aug 21, 2013)

fiatracer163 said:


> The MacGregor 25 comes to mind but I have never stepped foot on one


So, you've never sailed one, but you're calling it the worst boat ever? I don't understand how that works but whatever.

Also, you need to get your facts straight. You're confusing the 25 with the 26. The 25 has a cast iron swing keel and is rated for a motor up to 10hp.

MACGREGOR 25 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

FYI I have a Mac 25 and so far I haven't died.


----------



## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

Well, probably not what you are asking, but surely one of the great disasters of design was the Vasa, a 17th century Swedish warship. Launched in 1628; it sank all sails flying about 20 minutes after launch. Makes a great museum though.
John


----------



## jgeissinger (Feb 25, 2002)

The MacGregor 25 was a sailboat, period. The 26x was the powersailor with a big outboard and more of a powerboat hull. I have never owned a 25, but remember looking at them when they were new. There is nothing particularly bad about the 25 for a trailerable sailboat with a lot of interior room. Fit and finish not the best, but a lot of boat for the money at the time, and quite safe with all the built in flotation.


----------



## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

I don't see this thread ending well. Not at all. 

Not off to a good start criticizing a popular boat that you have never sailed.

In my limited experience, I think there are specific design features of boats that may be bad, rather than the entire boat.


----------



## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

Mr. Bubs said:


> FYI I have a Mac 25 and so far I haven't died.


I can say the same, but I have yet to be out and sail it :laugher


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

POPCORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

macregor 25 is far from the worst sailboat ever, in fact it has some nice qualities and voyages to its credit


----------



## Scallywag2 (Feb 9, 2010)

Every sailboat is built for a specific purpose. Even the MacGregor 25. A 60 hp motor would return you to the dock quickly. The sailboat would sail downwind but would not point very well and have a lot of leeway. A friend just sailed an 100 foot shallow draft boat across the Atlantic. It was built for chartering. Not a boat you would want to be on in an Atlantic storm with 30 foot seas. It is a beautiful boat for the charter trade. It has a bathroom for each stateroom with tiled walls, head, and a shower. Each stateroom has an airconditioner/heater. A wood sailboat in the South would take more attention than in the North. A wood sailboat to me has a pleasant sound moving through the water. It all depends on what you want and are willing to keep up. Reading other posts will permit the reader to determine what type of boat they want.

Dot and John


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

thats the macregor 26 powersailor not the macgregor 25 or has that changed now?


----------



## Azzarac (Sep 30, 2011)

Gotta love those people out there who throw statements around without even the tiniest fact woven into them. I think those people are commonly referred to as trolls on forums. Just poking the bear to see if they get a response. The Mac 26M has the 60hp motor. The 26X came with a 50. The 25 and 26C's generally are equipped with 9-15hp. 25's and C's are common, well sailing, sailboats. I happen to own an X and absolutely love it. No, it doesn't point quite as well an a "normal" sailboat, but with two teenagers on board they won't get bored when they can be towed on a tube or even ski behind the boat. And oh yeah, lets see you follow me into those shallow inlets in the Florida Keys with your deep draft full keel "real" sailboat! I guess my biggest complaint with the X (and M too) would be it's poor behavior when anchoring. They do tend have a considerable swing while on the hook.


----------



## Azzarac (Sep 30, 2011)

BTW Mr. Hess, LOVE your paella recipe!


----------



## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> The MacGregor 25 comes to mind but I have never stepped foot on one


I have stepped on one and wouldn't want to do it again. In the 70's I worked for a dealer and did some work on them installing hardware etc. Not to offend any owners who are reading this, but they were junk and the dealer eventually dropped them. The transoms were paper thin, the hardware was about 2 or 3 sizes too small (not sure that all of it was SS), and the hull to deck joint looked like it was held together with duct tape.

BUT.... it was cheap and got people on the water cheaply. So in the right conditions, why not? I'd say that it is fine up to 10 or 12 knots, then I'd get off.

Truly ugly boats? I've seen some homemade trimarans that look like bad wood shop projects. But to me the ugliest are the general class of (I can't recall the mfgrs) small center cockpit boats... like 30'. They look so top heavy and not sure if they want to be a condo or sailboat. Add to the list any boat where the owner thought they were smarter than the naval architect and started adding rooms and enclosing stuff with random pieces of plywood and formica.

Again, no offense to anyone who might own one of these.


----------



## Mr. Bubs (Aug 21, 2013)

Sabreman said:


> Not to offend any owners who are reading this, but they were junk and the dealer eventually dropped them.


No offense taken. Your mother is a fat pig, you know, but no offense meant.


----------



## clip68 (Jun 26, 2014)

Not a sail boat, but I nominate this:


----------



## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

The worst sailboat is one that doesn't get sailed 

My boat was a pretty awful sailboat last year, when the previous owner only sailed it once.

This year I've been getting out two or three times a week and now it's a great sailboat!


----------



## FirstCandC (Mar 26, 2013)

This thread is going to end Oh So Badly...
I used to make comments about ugly (not worst-I am not that qualified) sailboats to my wife when we were boat shopping. As a courtesy, I would wait until we got into the car to talk about it. On one visit, she saw a Grampian owner who had painted his boat a very loud shade of yellow. I mean HIDEOUS. So she says to the guy, "Oh, is that your Grampian? My husband hates it, but I just love that color!"
So now I just say that they are all nice sailboats, even if my eyes are glazing over while talking.


----------



## nccouple (Jun 11, 2011)

I'm keeping tabs. We've got McGregor, Hunter and 1 your mama.


----------



## Steve in Idaho (Jun 22, 2012)

The only comment I feel like making on this thread is to paraphrase our local dog trainer...."There are no bad _sailboats_....just bad _sailboat owners_."

Also kind of the same as with dogs, my heart sinks every time I see a boat (sailboat, powerboat, canoe, whatever) suffering from neglect.


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Azzarac said:


> BTW Mr. Hess, LOVE your paella recipe!


no need for the mr! jajaja christian is perfectly ok...
powerboats and outboards are fun...

os. post a pic of the paella when you make one...

cheers


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

nccouple said:


> I'm keeping tabs. We've got McGregor, Hunter and 1 your mama.


your mama jokes have to be one of the best things ever...in many kitchens I have cooked in I could go on for days with your mama

just seems funny to me

althouygh of course there is always one guy that feels you should sue because it offended him

and I can respect that too


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

I guess Ill play

how bout them piraty ole bucanneers????????????????????????????????? 

oh heeeeeeeeeeeeeeellll nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

its hammer time now...

let ww3 begin


----------



## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

christian.hess said:


> your mama jokes have to be one of the best things ever...in many kitchens I have cooked in I could go on for days with your mama


My wife and I go on with those, but in an absurdist anti-comic kind of way.

Me: "Looks like it's going to rain."
Her: "Your mom looks like she's going to rain."
Me: "That doesn't make any sense."
Her: "Your mom doesn't make any sense."
Me: "&#8230;"


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Minnesail said:


> My wife and I go on with those, but in an absurdist anti-comic kind of way.
> 
> Me: "Looks like it's going to rain."
> Her: "Your mom looks like she's going to rain."
> ...


thats *exactly* what Im talking about, mama jokes that dont make sense and for the most part have nothing to do with yo mama...thats what makes it funny


----------



## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

So Chris, your momma walks into a bar ...
<fill in the next line>


----------



## fiatracer163 (Oct 21, 2011)

yo mama so fat the escape velocity from her surface exceeds the speed of light.


----------



## fiatracer163 (Oct 21, 2011)

Yo mama is so fat she put on Guess jeans and the answer popped out.


----------



## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

really? just when I was going to ask him what paella was, you want to go and yank his chain.

now he'll tell me to put rat poison in it or something. LOL

jeez fiat snuck two posts in there that quick huh? LOL


----------



## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

back on topic, even in my limited experience I have sailed and motored a macgregor 26. it was on an inland lake though so hardly a bluwater experience. it seemed adequate to me and the better half. she liked that it felt very stable. 

would I buy one? eh probably not. if I wanted to pay for an outboard, I'd put it on a faster boat.


----------



## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Your momma is so stupid she thinks "innuendo" is an Italian suppository.


----------



## Steve in Idaho (Jun 22, 2012)

Okay. Another comment....

Pretty sure I saw this very same boat sailing (yes, with sails up) last week. Yeah, we were going faster (less slow?) But it didn't look like their day was sucking.

MacGregor 26X Sailboat / Trailer - Complete


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

CalebD said:


> So Chris, your momma walks into a bar ...
> <fill in the next line>


yo mamas the bar
:laugher


----------



## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Wow. I didn't see this coming.


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

well its better than badmouthing other peoples boats and creations, which apparently lately is the way things happen around here....

more comedy less hate and more being nice!


----------



## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Your momma is more comedy and less hate.


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

ajajajajaja


----------



## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Well Chris. Yo's the cook. Just whop us up some pie of humble to partake there of.


----------



## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Any of you Mac experts want to hop over to my thread and answer a couple specific questions?

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/163297-mcgreggor-questions.html


----------



## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

davidpm said:


> Any of you Mac experts want to hop over to my thread and answer a couple specific questions?
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/163297-mcgreggor-questions.html


I own one, but am no expert. I bought it a month ago, don't know how to sail, and have yet to sail it.


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Capt Len said:


> Well Chris. Yo's the cook. Just whop us up some pie of humble to partake there of.


any reason for the chris? I can take one...jajaja


----------



## nccouple (Jun 11, 2011)

Did a quick Google search on this question and McGregor 26 come in first with the Buccaneer coming in second. Before I get attacked "this is a google search and other peoples opinions." By the way. Your Mama wears combat boots!


----------



## Dave_E (Aug 7, 2013)

What is ugly, fat and slow to one sailor is a mother beautiful boat to another... it's all a matter of personal perspective.


----------



## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I give you the Flying Hawaiian


----------



## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Sweet Baby Cheezes, that is one fugly boat - that Flying Hawai'ian.
Fugly & hangry!
Out of the MacGregor line I have only sailed on a 26 "S" which can only take up to 10 HP ourboard. Good sailor, water ballast, a bit tender but faster than my heavy 27' boat with rigging that is way smaller than what my boat has.
I understand that the 26 X & M models satisfy a market niche but they would not be my choice. 
Putting other peoples boats down is just uncalled for. Someone will love an old shoe like mine or the sleekest racer or the easiest trailer sailor or....
dissing is just not productive, really.


----------



## Smier (Nov 14, 2012)

Oh no, not the flyin' Hawaiian!!!

Two weeks ago while sailing(motoring) on a friends boat on the Chesapeake we were passed by a Macgregor 26X, we were trudging along at about 2 1/2 knots against the current and wind trying to get under the Bay Bridge headed North and the Macgregor blew by us like we were standing still. They were soon out of sight and we were still 20 minutes from the bridge...


----------



## sandy stone (Jan 14, 2014)

"Hey, phone call for you"
"Who is it?"
"Joe"
"Joe who?"
"Jo' MAMA!"


----------



## Mr. Bubs (Aug 21, 2013)

davidpm said:


> Any of you Mac experts want to hop over to my thread and answer a couple specific questions?
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/163297-mcgreggor-questions.html


I replied as best as I could, sans any snark and/or sarcasm.


----------



## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

... and there is/was this ferro-cement beauty in Southern California (San Diego, I believe);


----------



## Mr. Bubs (Aug 21, 2013)

eherlihy said:


> ... and there is/was this ferro-cement beauty in Southern California (San Diego, I believe);


If you hadn't mentioned ferrocement I would have guessed Brent Swain.

Oh wait, it's floating and not in someone's backyard. Nevermind.


----------



## jagpfd (Nov 12, 2009)

I do not have a Mac but I have been on my friends boat. For the money a 26 is a good all around boat. Sail/motor boat.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Smier said:


> Oh no, not the flyin' Hawaiian!!!
> 
> Two weeks ago while sailing(motoring) on a friends boat on the Chesapeake we were passed by a Macgregor 26X, we were trudging along at about 2 1/2 knots against the current and wind trying to get under the Bay Bridge headed North and the Macgregor blew by us like we were standing still. They were soon out of sight and we were still 20 minutes from the bridge...


Good comments.

I've never been on a 26X or M, but I've been passed by a few under motor, seen a few sailing, seen a couple up-close at a dock, and talked to a couple people who own them. The owners seemed very happy with them. Isn't that what matters most?

I would not buy one, but I can see a market segment that wants them. (That's why they continue to sell.) It may not be the right boat for sailing purists, but to call the design a "true failure" is just plain ignorant.

OP definitely needs to adjust his attitude.


----------



## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Let we forget, I give you the Raw Faith;








- RawFaith, Photo by Steve Cartwright
(Not all the loonies are on the left coast)


----------



## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

Never mind worst boats ever....how about worst threads ever.


----------



## Smier (Nov 14, 2012)

TakeFive said:


> Good comments.
> 
> I've never been on a 26X or M, but I've been passed by a few under motor, seen a few sailing, seen a couple up-close at a dock, and talked to a couple people who own them. The owners seemed very happy with them. Isn't that what matters most?
> 
> ...


Last year while my wife and I were taking a sailing course in Rock Hall, Md, there was a group of Macgregor owners(probably 15 Mac's) having a group outing at the marina we were staying at. Other than our boat, they were the only boats that actually went out of the marina and sailed in the four days we were there! They were all having a blast and seemed like a nice group of families. For where we like to sail, I would gladly take one, but I already have a trailerable swing keeled 22 footer that will suit our needs nicely. I like to sail, the kids like to tube... Win win in my book with lots of room for a family. Plus we like to go places a full keel can't go!


----------



## j d (Jul 27, 2014)

I was not going to touch this thread but there is this quote I like.

For boats, even the uglier ones, are among the loveliest creations of man’s hands, and though owning them brings a train of debts, hangnails, bruises, bad frights, and all kinds of worries not experienced by those who content themselves with the more practical vices, the relation between a man and his boat is as personal and intimate as the relation between husband and wife.

Desmond Holdridge


----------



## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

^^^^^nice 

the point many of us were trying to make...its those that are offensive and careless in their comments towards someone elses boat that makes it sad, or worst thread ever etc...

I would never buy a mac26 with a 60hp because I would preffer a nice small sport fisher that I could dive and play around with and say a j24 for fun fast sailing and racing...

I wouldnt buy a bucanneer because it doesnt look good to me, but I bet it sails allright...and I wouldnt insult or offend and owner of one...

maybe the builder with a comment here and there, but not the owner

its the classless attitude by many and the incessant need to denigrade someone elses belongings and or persona that simply gets old

if that makes me sound like a holier than thou jerk or too good for this thread attitude or whatever fine

but I wont dissrespect that way, maybe a joke here and there, a snip, a dash of dry humour but some people dont get that either

in any case...

im out


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

IMO a thread like this has to be restricted to production boats or it will be impossible to have a winner - there are far too many "hand built" uglies out there to ever pick a worst one ever.

In the realm of production sailboats, I thought it was generally accepted that the original Buccaneers - 210, 240 & 270 were the all time worst. 

The Mac powersailers are more weird than bad in the way the Buc's were bad.

And if anyone wants to disagree with that - Yer Mama!


----------



## Marcaiche (Aug 30, 2014)

US Yachts (later tweaked to bayliner) did have a buccaneer 220 that was essentially the same as the Ranger 22...kind of like an SJ24 with 2' lopped of her rear and a transom-mounted rudder. A Garry Mull boat. For inland waters she performed amazingly well, lots of room below too. They made a "stretched" version in 25' too...light build but not bad if you didn't plan on playing in the rough stuff.

But, as many PNW'ers know, the aforementioned buccs (210,240,270)......well words that I have heard descriptively include "abomination," "roll-over queen," etc. Too too too much freeboard, not enough horsepower aloft (a good thing actually, because all in all darned unstable), horrible build quality. BUT that being said, gotta make the point that you'd play heck finding another 24 footer with as much room below as a small condominium. ;-). Personally have known three fellas who each ended up living aboard one, post-divorce. All they could afford...all three were experienced sailors...all three were not at all happy about owning the Bucc as a "sailboat," but were VERY happy about using her as floating domicile on the cheap for the homeless divorced guy. We took one across from Everett to Langley once (9+ miles, protected waters)...ostensibly to imbibe at a pub. Wind picked up in Saratoga passage and considering the sailing qualities (or lack of) we had experienced in 6-10 knots going we decided to draw lots and the loser did not imbibe...at all...to handle the return in gusts to 25. The fetch wasn't even that bad, but there was no point of sail that that she could claim to do "well," regardless of wind velocity.

But again...for cheap livin' on the dock with a handy flag pole in the middle to run happy hour signals up...heckuva useful chunk o' fiberglass.


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Your friends need to find better divorce lawyers.


----------



## Marcaiche (Aug 30, 2014)

Hmmm...what a coincidence...that was exactly the comment I made. Happy ending though...all three of them escaped their Buccs within a year for boats that could be lived on and sailed well.

........and all three of the Buccs are still in their same slips (maybe because nobody is willing to slip their lines and venture beyond the marina???...good sense that), two being acquired by starving college students...beats the heck out of dorm living eh? The third I think is being used by a guy to avoid his wife with his girlfriends. 

See? To each sailboat there is a use that reflects her best qualities...even a pig in a poke like a Bucc 240.


----------



## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

SloopJonB said:


> IMO a thread like this has to be restricted to production boats or it will be impossible to have a winner - there are far too many "hand built" uglies out there to ever pick a worst one ever.
> 
> In the realm of production sailboats, I thought it was generally accepted that the original Buccaneers - 210, 240 & 270 were the all time worst.
> 
> ...


I wasn't familiar with them, so I went to SailboatData.com

Buccaneer 210;









Buccaneer 240;









Buccaneer 270;









IMHO, they're all quite "tuby"



> It is thought that the hull for the BUCCANEER 200, 210, 240, and 245 all derive from a mold(s) 'splashed' from a COLUMBIA 23T. The number of windows (above and below the 'sheer line') doesn't appear to be always consistent between specific models.


Now that you've got me looking, the Buccaneer 285 seems to take the cake;









a 26 foot center cockpit...


----------



## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

and to round out my post above, here is a Columbia T23 (IMHO, a nice looking little boat)


----------



## tankersteve (Jun 22, 2007)

Over in Sailing Anarchy, there is a great thread on 'fugly' boats. The criteria is quite good, as some small 'salty' designs may not be pretty, but their functionality is well regarded. Some of the boats shown here do not fit my definition of ugly - especially when they look like someone does sail them. 

But the Buccaneers are fugly - no doubt about it.

Tankersteve


----------



## CapnSantiago (Jul 17, 2007)

can't we...can't we all just get along...


----------



## Bill-Rangatira (Dec 17, 2006)

i would be inclined to nominate the homemade ferro cements that were springing up everywhere a few years ago ... the rig was worth far more than the hull


----------



## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

I am not sure a guy with fiat in his name should be sneering at 'the worst" of anything.


----------



## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

It sure ain't pretty, but it is home sweet home to somebody:


----------



## SENCMac26x (Sep 16, 2014)

I think it needs a bath...and is that a greenhouse on the back?


----------



## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

bljones said:


> I am not sure a guy with fiat in his name should be sneering at 'the worst" of anything.


Fiats are some of the safest cars there are. It's hard to get in an accident when the car is in the shop.


----------



## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

SENCMac26x said:


> I think it needs a bath...and is that a greenhouse on the back?


Looks like a set of solar panels acting as a bimini. Not a bad idea.


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Minnesail said:


> Fiats are some of the safest cars there are. It's hard to get in an accident when the car is in the shop.


Not necessarily so - I got a set of brand new Pirellis dirt cheap from a junkyard once. They came off a Fiat Spyder that was in getting them installed. When the guy pulled out of the shop he got T-boned and totalled by a passing truck - right at the entrance to the shop. They literally had less than 100 feet on them and I got them for 25 cents on the $.


----------



## wannabsailor (Jul 9, 2012)

I suppose all sail boats have good features and bad, but I have to agree with the guys who say the Mac ain't bad. I think it's a pretty darn good sailboat, esp. those built in the 80's to the mid 90's. Those with the swing keel are great!


----------



## SENCMac26x (Sep 16, 2014)

Whether or not you think the Mac Powersailors are good for a certain nuche or a blight on an age old tradition...I know several of them in my area that I regularly see out and about for different outings or just passing the time... while most of the poster "approved" designs around here sit at the dock next to the Bayliners and Sea Rays.


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

I think Wannabe was referring to the older Mac trailer sailors which were pretty fair boats for their purpose & price.


----------



## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

Junk?

Everything Hinkley every made. I've never owned one, or even been on one, but they are all junk. Even the ones that are 30 years old and sell for more than they did when brand new.


----------



## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

fiatracer163 said:


> ...have there been any true failures in sailboat design?


Have you checked out UASHO (Uglyboat Admiration Society Hang Out) over at Sailing Anarchy? Plenty of fodder in there to keep you busy for a while.


----------



## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Here is an interesting post from a freind who has been cruising the S Pacific in one of my 36 footers for decades, from the origamiboats site. He has seen a lot of boats coming thru.
Quote!
An Austrian guy then told me a story about 10 boats were knocked over in a storm while on the hard stand in Raiatea. 2 of them were Hallberg Rassys and sustained damage while the other 8 boats were OK. He said they spend too much money on advertising and fancy woodwork when they build them and not enough on quality of the hulls. This is real world versus what they tell you in the yachting magazines. They are considered highly desirable but every time I look at a Hallberg Rassy now, I think of fluff.

Hunters are terrible boats. I liken the hulls to a blown up plastic bag, propped open and stiffened with cardboard. I know there are a lot of them and they have made a few long trips but there is no way I would sail on one offshore. A Beneteau is a Rolls Royce compared to one of them. The rudder post on my friends Hunter Vision 41 was made from aluminum. Just ridiculous. They apparently fall off all the time. The new improved replacement is stainless steel and supposed to be much better. No kidding!

Some designers and builders are pretty stupid and never learn from past mistakes. The newer Hanse yachts also have alloy rudder posts. I saw a brand new one with a faulty and leaking rudder post. Although it was only a few months old, it was eaten up by corrosion. If you look on the net, there are a lot of people with a lot of problems.

Another friend saw a Hunter from Comox ( 25 miles away) arrive at Jack's boat yard in Lund BC ,with rudder problems, When they lifted her out, the rudder fell off.Only its buoyancy was keeping it in. I believe it had the stainless rudder shaft held in by tiny tacks, which broke.Anyone with a Hunter would be wise to remove the rudder, and make sure it is better put together.
The lifelines ( tripwires) are only 24 inches off the decks. If they skimp on an extra ten inches of tubing per stanchion, it makes you wonder what else they have skimped on. Appearantly everything!


----------



## Tenoch (Sep 28, 2012)

Brent Swain said:


> An Austrian guy then told me a story about 10 boats were knocked over in a storm while on the hard stand in Raiatea. 2 of them were Hallberg Rassys and sustained damage while the other 8 boats were OK. He said they spend too much money on advertising and fancy woodwork when they build them and not enough on quality of the hulls. This is real world versus what they tell you in the yachting magazines. They are considered highly desirable but every time I look at a Hallberg Rassy now, I think of fluff.


It's totally fine to mock Hunters, MacGregors and Buccaneers....but come on now...Hallberg Rassys? Why you gotta do me like that?  (of course they probably weren't ancient, like mine).


----------



## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

A friend bought a Bucaneer for $100. That was years ago. Since then she has made many trips the length of Georgia Strait and has had many summers of enjoyment out of it, along with many winter cruises thru the Gulf Islands, while her marina queen critics, in far trendier, far more expensive boats, try to work up the nerve to do what they consider a major ocean crossing , the 20 miles to Silva Bay and back. Sure its a piece of crap, she knows that , but that doesn't stop her from getting the maximum enjoyment out of it.
Efficiency is measured by what you are trying to accomplish. The efficiency of a pleasure boat is the ratio of pleasure to displeasure (ie having to go to work to pay for it)
That makes her Buccaneer a very efficient boat, by that measure.


----------



## arknoah (Oct 31, 2010)

Minnesail said:


> The worst sailboat is one that doesn't get sailed
> 
> My boat was a pretty awful sailboat last year, when the previous owner only sailed it once.
> 
> This year I've been getting out two or three times a week and now it's a great sailboat!


There is something to be said for this approach. Not long ago, I was at the marina, and noticed that lots of really nicely appointed and respected boats weren't getting out as often as I was in a very basic MacGregor 25. So, my thought is, my boat was the better...


----------



## Wingnutt (Sep 20, 2014)

fiatracer163 said:


> Everyone always talks about the best blue water cruiser or the best PHRF racing boat, but no one talks about the worst boats ever and what makes them bad. In my mind it's almost as important to learn about the bad sailboats and what design aspects make them bad.
> 
> The MacGregor 26 comes to mind but I have never stepped foot on one and cannot comment on how bad they really are. I can't think about how a 60 HP motor on the back of a light sailboat will make it handle under sail. I also wonder how many of the Mac 26's that were given away on the Price is Right (without motors) were sold for pennies on the dollar. Other than the Mac 26 have there been any true failures in sailboat design?


Not all Macgregor 26s are the same boat, there were several different versions.

The D, the S, the X and the M

The X and the M are the "notorious" power sailers with big motors, flat bottoms and dagger boards, the D and the S are normal sailboats, the D has a daggerboard and the S has a swing keel, the S is the best sailer of the group and is a very good boat.

So don't lump them all together, they are very VERY different.


----------



## okawbow (Feb 15, 2007)

I sailed a Mac 25 for several years. It was a good boat to learn on, but was down right scary in strong, gusty winds. That caused me to stay at the dock too often. It was an epiphany when I started sailing a Bristol 24. When the wind piped up and gusted; the Bristol would simply put her shoulder down and continue sailing in a straight line, with no stress. In the same conditions, the Mac 25 would round up, almost out of control sometimes. 

However, if given the choice between an old Mac 25 and a new Mac 26 water ballast; I'd sail the old 25.


----------



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Does anyone remember the American 27..? Lots of room for a 27 footer but perhaps the absolute worst sailing boat I have ever sailed... Heck those cooler-foam Sunfish type boats you could buy at sears back in the 70's for $200.00 sailed better..

I was about 15 when a neighbor was given an American 27 for free. The guy was a good competent sailor and I raced against him in Rhodes 19's. He worked on this boat over the winter, launched her the next spring. A few weeks later he asks me to come for a sail with him. 

Turned out he wanted to see if the two of us could make it sail any better. In retrospect I think he asked me because I was a kid and he was too embarrassed to ask another adult..? Having recently raced on a Tanzer, a pretty decent sailing boat, I was shocked at the sheer inability of this boat to sail well. This boat simply did not behave they way a sail boat should. He gave it a valiant effort for the entire summer, and even had our local sail maker out twice. It was certainly a unique boat with a trench down the middle of the cabin for standing head room. If you had big feet they had to remain fore & aft when in the "trench" . The trench made the shoal keel very wide and odd shaped and I suspect that played a roll in her poor sailing characteristics.. Over the winter he apparently re-gifted it.... To this day I don't think I have laid eyes on another American 27... I have sailed a pile of boats but never one that sailed as poorly as that American 27. Can't comment on the construction other than to say it was a boat built to a price point....

BTW another neighbor had a Venture 25 that would sail circles around the American 27, literally...


----------



## RickWestlake (Sep 22, 2009)

Every boat is a compromise, let's not forget that. 

The MacGregor 26X and 26M are a greater compromise than most other boats. The big engines and powerboat-style hulls let them do "dual duty," able to drag your kids on an Airhead tube as well as glide along under sail. The swing keel (26X) or daggerboard (26M) retract flush with the keel-line of the hull, for easier trailering. The water ballast may not be as stiff as lead, but it does pretty well in light-to-moderate winds, and draining the ballast makes the boat light enough to tow with a smaller vehicle.

They may have all the nautical ambiance of a Clorox bottle, below-decks, but MacGregor put their money into fiberglass and resin rather than fine cabinetry. They were built to be affordable, and to be enough boat for a "first sailboat" that's enough boat for a family to go day-sailing and even weekending. They do that job pretty well, if you ask me - and MacGregor built and sold thousands of them. 

It's a boat for sheltered waters. I sailed mine on the upper Chesapeake Bay, hauled her down to Florida for a couple of sailing vacations, and used her as a "funny-shaped travel trailer" a few times at the Potomac Antique Aero Club's May fly-in at Horn Point (near Cambridge), MD. I sold her because I wanted a real-deal keelboat, and I'm really pleased with the Bristol 29.9 that I'm sailing now, but there were things I could do with the Mac that I can't do with the Bristol. 

All boats are compromises. If a "weird" boat does what you want to do in a boat, then just get out and enjoy it! The ugliest thing about a boat is when you leave it sitting at the dock; a boat isn't "ugly" if you're out enjoying it.


----------



## Clarks Hill Windbag (Mar 27, 2014)

Another MacGregor beatdown - shocking. I don't own one, and have never seen one, fwiw.

We cannot assume that long-lived model lines are the worst sailboats ever. Would 3,800 boats have been built if they just plain sucked, 38,000?
COMPANY HISTORY

Your momma uses such poor logic, she attacks Macgregor sailboats as worst ever.


----------



## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

All powerboats are the worst sailboats ever.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

PaulinVictoria said:


> All powerboats are the worst sailboats ever.


By similar logic, perhaps the Mac 26X and 26M are the best powerboats ever!


----------



## Chadfunk48 (Jun 8, 2006)

One time I was sitting in an inner tube on the lake. I held my t-shirt over my head to try and catch the breeze. Pretty sure at that moment I was the worst sailboat ever.


----------



## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Tenoch said:


> It's totally fine to mock Hunters, MacGregors and Buccaneers....but come on now...Hallberg Rassys? Why you gotta do me like that?  (of course they probably weren't ancient, like mine).


I think the message is "If you have a Hunter or Halberg Rassy you should pull the rudder and see what it s made out of, or how it is put together." That wouldn't be a bad idea with any such rudder. Report your findings here.
Going a size bigger on the shaft costs no more, in sailing performance, that an extra case of beer in the stern ( or fewer burgers in the crew)
On my first boat, I welded an eye on the top of the rudder post ,which was narrower than the rudder shaft. This let me put a rope thru the eye and ship or unship the rudder in the water, without hauling out, any time. I had to swim down to put the bottom fitting on the skeg ,but without a skeg, that would be unnecessary and one could do it without getting wet.


----------



## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

A Mac 25 is just a Mac 26 after a particularly bad docking... not unlike a Catalina 29 or a J23 ( a true one-design).


----------



## WindchaserPY23 (Dec 29, 2010)

I must say this thread has proved to be very enlightening. First thing I've noticed is there are a lot of sailors at this forum that should stick to their day job. The comedy Club is not hiring. Second thing is that the original question is a valid one if not put quite that way. 
When I was first looking for a boat I was overwhelmed at the number of top ten (or twenty) lists. The thing was, none of the lists were the same. I guess it is all in what you want. I might not have found a boat on any list but I didn't want the Ford Pinto of the seas either.
My Paceship 23 isn't exactly built for speed and doesn't point very well but it does what it is supposed to do and in this case allows me weekend cruising ability. It also gives the Admiral and I a good idea of the things we will look for in our next vessel.
Just my 2 cents worth.

ed
s/v Talisman


----------



## HankOnthewater (Jan 26, 2007)

I think it was said before that there is no “worst” sailboat. Every boat is built for a reason, and for purpose, and possibly will fit those requirements.
The word “worst” implies a comparison. Therefore we need other boats to compare to. For instance, when talking about the McGregor we need to find similar boats, built for a similar purpose and then compare. And when making comments, it certainly helps having worked on, sailed or owned boats that are compared.

Indeed there may be boats on the market or built that have inherent problems, although some of these problems might be perceived as idiosyncracies by owners and others. Having one of more of those does not make a boat necessarily bad or worst.

Lastly “worst” and “ugliest” should not be confused, they are completely different concepts. An ugly boat might fit all the requirements for reason d’etre, and might be very functional, practical, useful.
Of course, and to quote a cliché: beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


----------



## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

PaulinVictoria said:


> All powerboats are the worst sailboats ever.


On the other hand, sailboats generally make pretty piss-poor powerboats/trawlers with masts, as well...

Still, that doesn't prevent many 'sailors' from essentially using them as such...


----------



## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

While I agree that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and that it's wrong to pick on someone else's ride... I do have to admit the smaller buccaneer sailboats were pretty um, homely looking.

That being said, I thought that the Buccaneer 305 was a pretty shiply looking boat. While it was never a "Speedster" it always looked to me capable of crossing oceans.









Its very easy to pick on Macgregors... and I'd argue that the S and D models were acceptable looks and performance little trailer sailors, but the X and the M were less about sailing and more about "jack of all trades."

If you were asking "worst sailing boats ever" meaning which boats sail the poorest (which I would assume would be proportionately slowest for a given wind speed), one need only look at PHRF or Portsmouth ratings and find the highest numbers, indicating the slower boats.


----------



## Azzarac (Sep 30, 2011)

Whatever personal opinion you have on the the Macgregor X and M series, there is one undeniable fact. They are without a doubt the fastest boat on the water.

They are the fastest sailboat under power.
They are the fastest powerboat under sail.
And given a proper tow vehicle, they are the fastest 26' boat going down the highway!

FWIW I had so many people stop and compliment our X this weekend while launching and retrieving I wasn't sure we'd ever get off the dock. Guess they don't see many Macs on their lake.


----------



## FirstCandC (Mar 26, 2013)

True story- wind was out of the Northeast at about 10 knots yesterday, a perfect, sunny afternoon. Out of the 50 or so boats in our marina, only one boat went out. A Macgregor with a huge outboard on the back.
I watched the couple leaving the marina with huge grins, while I STRUGGLED to put my choke cable bracket on. That screw and nut was made by mice workers.
I guess the moral of the story is as long as it floats and sails, it really doesn't matter.


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

SHNOOL said:


> That being said, I thought that the Buccaneer 305 was a pretty shiply looking boat. While it was never a "Speedster" it always looked to me capable of crossing oceans.


You were wrong.


----------



## Wdan72 (Sep 22, 2014)

I don't want to upset any MacGregor lovers out there but my goto worst boat ever was the Mac 26X, but that purely because I thought that a 50hp outboard looked ugly on the back of a sailboat. I can see the practicality of it for many though. Its just not the boat for me. Im sure there are worst boats out there but for me that's the one that comes to mind.


----------



## Mr. Bubs (Aug 21, 2013)

Wdan72 said:


> I don't want to upset any MacGregor lovers out there but my goto worst boat ever was the Mac 26X, but that purely because I thought that a 50hp outboard looked ugly on the back of a sailboat. I can see the practicality of it for many though. Its just not the boat for me. Im sure there are worst boats out there but for me that's the one that comes to mind.


How long did you own and sail your Mac 26?


----------



## jeffy104 (Sep 22, 2014)

Never mind the Macs. Can you old salts tell me anything about the Lightning sailboat? I have heard some good things about them but I am not too experienced in sailing and am fixing a 1958 model. First thing will be to make a new mast. BTW, my brother-in-law says that Macs are not too expensive but are somewhat lacking in......and then he rattled off some maritime jargon which I really didn't understand. There's my 2 cents.


----------



## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

uscg a number of years ago, deemed , in print, the clipper marine to be unsafe in any body of water. 
aluminum poprivets hold together the hull and deck of these marvels and the light duty mast is impressively light. the hull is a total of 1/8 inch thick choppergun laid fiberglass shards. very interesting boat. 26', 30', 32'......god bless, err, save ye. 
yes i owned one. yes i can bash the crap out of these as they are truly the worst and least safe boat created. 
they might sail well, however, giving the owner a false sense of awe.


----------



## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

SloopJonB said:


> You were wrong.


Hey I am trying to throw a bone to the Bucc owners and Mac owners here. Me who owned not 1 but 3, Catalina "Crapi" boats.

But then nobody liked the US Yacht 27 either, or the 25 for that matter, and I thought they were pretty nice looking boats... Truly the eye of the beholder for sure.

The Catalina Capri line had a reputation for "poor quality," hence the following of "Crapi." I dunno that I agree with that either.

Again, worst sailboat or ugliest sailboat? Not sure which we are shooting for here.


----------



## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

zeehag said:


> uscg a number of years ago, deemed , in print, the clipper marine to be unsafe in any body of water.
> aluminum poprivets hold together the hull and deck of these marvels and the light duty mast is impressively light. the hull is a total of 1/8 inch thick choppergun laid fiberglass shards. very interesting boat. 26', 30', 32'......god bless, err, save ye.
> yes i owned one. yes i can bash the crap out of these as they are truly the worst and least safe boat created.
> they might sail well, however, giving the owner a false sense of awe.


We might have a winner!

I had never heard of Clipper Marine, but I looked them up on Sailboatdata.com, wow!
CLIPPER MARINE 30

A displacement/length of 100, that's raceboat light, but I'm guessing it's not from using super light composites...

And 800 lbs of ballast with a draft of 3.5'? That's roughly the same ballast as a Catalina 22, but not as deep.

And only an 8' beam on a 30' boat? So no ballast to keep it upright. No initial stability from beam.

Wow.


----------



## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

zeehag said:


> uscg a number of years ago, deemed , in print, the clipper marine to be unsafe in any body of water. ...


Where did they state that the entire line of Clipper Marines are unsafe? Or were they referring to one particular boat after a rescue or accident?


----------

