# Paying to watch youtube cruising vids



## Minnewaska

I'm curious to hear what I anticipate being very different opinions of who makes monetary contributions to Patreon accounts or makes other financial contributions to folks who post self documentaries of their cruising.

I watch and subscribe to several. Few are really all that well done, but I find them akin to a conversation in the cockpit. They're not all well rehearsed or organized, but I enjoy the story. 

I estimate I follow an even split between kids just starting out and more salty folks that have been at this a while. Do you refuse to contribute? Do you contribute to them all? Do you pick which are the best and what's the criteria for that?

I'm not going to name names, but give some examples. 

I love watching a vid series of a couple of young kids on an extended cruise. It totally brings me back to being their age, when I never chose to do what they have. I love it. The videography is pretty poor by anyone's standard, but I don't really care. Then they discovered Patreon and would like some contributions to help them continue what is arguably an unsustainable lifestyle. I'm conflicted. Would I send them a few bucks as comp for the entertainment? Maybe, but why just them, everyone is asking. On the other hand, while it's awesome that they had this adventure, there will come a time they will need to provide for their medical care, retirement, etc, and not live off others. IOW, are they selling a product or just holding out a cup on the street corner, in your opinion?

Others have documented years, if not decades, of cruising, with no information whatsoever on how they fund it. Are they independently wealthy? Did they inherit the money they are using to cruise full time? Or, in one case, as was revealed on the internet, they were a complete fraud that was appearing destitute, when they were a highly paid internet security consultant. Perhaps they do work and just don't reveal how. 

Is this a new business model? What's your take?


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## Stu Jackson

Minnewaska said:


> Is this a new business model? What's your take?


Interesting question.

My take is that it is no different than a few decades after they invented movable type and they published books for "the masses."

"Holy Cow," old Mr. Gutenberg said, "now the masses are gonna start complaining that there's too much information out there and bug me with 'What book(s) should I read next?"

Some things never change.

You find what you like and then you read/follow it/them/she/he/it.

I've learned about new-to-me authors by picking up paperback books at my marina lending library; authors I never would have known about and have come to treasure.

Same thing with stuff on the internet. Find it, try it, come back to it or pass it by. No different than any other form of communication.

I use regular libraries, lending or swap libraries and buy both used and new books.

Seems it would be the same although most of us feel the FREE internet should remain that way. I've never contributed to any blog or YouTube. But I have personally spent countless hours preparing material on boating systems and share those links in response to recurring questions. I don't expect to get paid.


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## sharkbait

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## Minnewaska

The investopedia link on youtube advertising revenue was interesting. Thanks. 

I went to look at the number of views for the vids on the various subscriptions I have. They are highly variable, from only a few thousand to as many as 30,000. Still, they're not going to apparently translate to much money. I couldn't tell which did or did not have "monetization" turned on.

What I had never noticed before, however, was that the young kids have way more views. Even though their video production quality is often far inferior.


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## XSrcing

I do not donate to any Patreon accounts, but I buy t-shirts from the channels I enjoy.


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## Minnesail

I've never really followed anyone on YouTube, so I haven't donated to anyone either.

But if I were going to donate I'd be more likely to donate to the kids than the oldsters. I've given money to my nephews and nieces to encourage them in their travels, but if my sisters want to go anywhere they have to fund that on their own.


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## Bleemus

I believe you can make a six figure income from ad revenue alone if you get to 200k subscribers. No cruisers are close to that as far as I can see. Mostly gamers. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## miatapaul

There seems to be a range from poorly filmed but fun to watch the enthusiasm, to well filmed. Some have good DIY info thrown in as well, while others concentrate on that. I do wish the YouTube was more open about how they pay. As it is now it is a mystery and you never know how much you are going to make. I know for instance Keep Turning Left has had issues with YouTube not really paying what they are supposed to. I think that is the big reason for the push to Patrion as it is the only way to get a consistent flow of income.


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## miatapaul

Bleemus said:


> I believe you can make a six figure income from ad revenue alone if you get to 200k subscribers. No cruisers are close to that as far as I can see. Mostly gamers.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


And even then it is still kind of sketchy. I know the gamers do sponsorship as well, and likely make for from that than YouTube. Of course Drake, and Nike both get sponsorship as well. That seems to be a good model, though most sailing sponsors seem to only be willing to give gear not cash like the gaming industry.

There was for a while the shoppers that were posting, but not sure if they are sill popular.


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## XSrcing

When you monetize your account you sign an NDA about the pay structure.


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## Minnewaska

Sponsorships and Ad revenue make a ton of sense. 

Still trying to get my head around whether asking for Patreon money is asking to be paid for a service, a gratuity or just a tin cup on the sidewalk.


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## sharkbait

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## SVTatia

Minnewaska said:


> I'm curious to hear what I anticipate being very different opinions of who makes monetary contributions to Patreon accounts or makes other financial contributions to folks who post self documentaries of their cruising....


This is an interesting topic. I have contemplated donations thru Patreon but I don't really understand what it is - meaning - Patreon is making money on the videos, but not sure what is their cut, so am I really supporting a new industry or the people I am following? Probably both, but what is the ratio?
I do subscribe to dozens but only follow 3 very entertaining, informative and well made series and I don't mind naming them - Drake, Vagabond and Delos.
It seems the production of these videos take a lot of work to be done properly and for this reason I feel like contributing, after all it is entertaining specially in these long winter nights. After all, I pay for my TV that most of the time cannot get my attention on any of the 3 thousand channels....

But on the other hand, I simply don't feel comfortable with the idea of opening my credit card to future automatic withdraws...


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## mstern

Minnewaska said:


> Sponsorships and Ad revenue make a ton of sense.
> 
> Still trying to get my head around whether asking for Patreon money is asking to be paid for a service, a gratuity or just a tin cup on the sidewalk.


I only follow one voyager (Nike, in White Spot Pirates), but I don't contribute to her Paetron account. As much as I like the videos (and as good as she looks in a bikini), I have no desire to fund her cruising dream. I never thought of the specific question you asked ("am I paying for entertainment?") before, but I have now and my answer doesn't change. I watch at least partly because they are free. If White Spot Pirates were somehow made a pay per view feature, I don't think it's worth paying for. Don't get me wrong; the videos are very well put together and the raw footage is professionally edited before being uploaded to youtube. Its just that there's lots of other things to look at and do that are already free or that I already pay for.

On another front, I think of these videographer cruisers seeking money as similar to the parent's groups that set up outside our local supermarket looking for "contributions" to send the town Little League team to a tournament in California. I always refused to contribute to those kinds of things. I think it's great that your kid's team is doing so well, and yes, it would be a terrific experience for them. But you don't ask me to chip in for your family's Disney World vacation, or your kid's college fund; don't ask me for this either. By the same token, I don't want to fund some cruiser's life-long dream to quit their job and sail to Tahiti. A great dream; so save your own money.


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## Minnewaska

Great question on how much your intended beneficiary actually gets. When you toss a bill in the hat of the performer, you know.

It's also becoming clearer to me that the youtube/patreon ask is more like the street performer mentioned above, than a beggar. 

That also brings to mind the underlying point of who is asking. When I see the local kids from the music school playing on the sidewalk, I'm happy to help them get started. No way it will be their living, its a few extra bucks and they have a plan to be professional musicians, with real jobs one day. When I see someone down and out, that may also pull my heart strings. 

If I see a performer who I think has plenty of money, I would save my contribution for someone else.

I think knowing the resources of the youtube producers is more important than I even originally thought. I see some of the channels paying to re-rig their boats, buy dingies, etc. It sure feels like there is already money there somehow. I don't want to be duped into thinking someone needs help, if they're really just trying to sell a product.


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## Stumble

I see Patron as akin to paying cover at a bar for the band. It takes a lot of work to film and edit video well, and if the content is interesting then I think it's reasonable to reward to producer for my enjoyment. Much the way if I go see a band at a free venue I am going to toss a couple bucks in the jar. 

My guess is that on a $/hr basis making the videos is at best a low level source of income. Much like when I sell my rigging work. I do it because I like to, any compensation just goes back into feeding the hobby.


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## Minnewaska

Cover at a bar is different. You pay before you get in and I dare say that most of YouTube would never be viewed at all, if that were the case. The tip jar analogy is better, I think. So, how do you decide which you tip. Quality? Circumstance? Need? Or do you tip them all?

Indeed, on YouTube, it seems impractical to tip them all. It's like going to one hundred free venues per day.


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## Stumble

Minnewaska said:


> Cover at a bar is different. You pay before you get in and I dare say that most of YouTube would never be viewed at all, if that were the case. The tip jar analogy is better, I think. So, how do you decide which you tip. Quality? Circumstance? Need? Or do you tip them all?
> 
> Indeed, on YouTube, it seems impractical to tip them all. It's like going to one hundred free venues per day.


I typically don't tip on YouTube. But I am at most an indifferent consumer. I just don't get the draw of watching other people's adventure videos. If there was a series of videos explaining how to do something in detail, like a few hours of how to perform some skill, with detail explanations, an in depth look at tool options, basically a few hour class on how to do something I will support it.


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## Minnewaska

Stumble said:


> ......If there was a series of videos explaining how to do something in detail, like a few hours of how to perform some skill, with detail explanations, an in depth look at tool options, basically a few hour class on how to do something I will support it.


I've watched countless "how-to" videos it seems. I've yet to see one that asked for money. Interesting.


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## gamayun

Studies from reputable research groups show (and you can Google this) that happier people give more, and that giving leads to greater feelings of happiness -- it's the classic feedback loop...very Pavlovian. Granted, what the OP asks about is not the traditional "charity" model, but it's the same concept. You approve of the recipient, they represent values you agree with, you want to help said recipient, and then you feel good when doing so. If you get something back in return, even if you were never promised anything for your donation, this just creates more positive reinforcement!

So, yes; it is a new business model and your conflict probably stems from not knowing whether you support their value systems or not. So you can ask yourself: do you want to see them continue, do you feel your money is going to be used for "good," do you like the people, do you want to see more of their videos, can you afford what you send them, do you think they are trying to scam you, etc. These are personal decisions. I don't think there's either a universal answer or a "right" answer.


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## SVTatia

Minnewaska said:


> I've watched countless "how-to" videos it seems. I've yet to see one that asked for money. Interesting.


Aha, and we have one of the best sources of information anywhere for a lot of stuff we do to our boats presented in extremely good quality and its free. However, it needs support and I wonder how many readers contribute...
I feel guilty for not been able to make a direct contribution, but I have purchased from the site before (which in itself helps) and I definitely plan to make a contribution in the near future. I am talking about Maine Sails Compass marine site, but I digress.


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## Minnewaska

Several, including me, have purchased the famous butyl tape from Compass Marine. I don't think selling t-shirts or a product like butyl is the same as just asking for a patreon contribution. I'm not saying any are good or bad. I'm just curious how people deal with the vids that ask for money, albeit, often gently.


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## SeaDubya

Minnewaska said:


> I'm conflicted. Would I send them a few bucks as comp for the entertainment? Maybe, but why just them, everyone is asking. On the other hand, while it's awesome that they had this adventure, there will come a time they will need to provide for their medical care, retirement, etc, and not live off others. IOW, are they selling a product or just holding out a cup on the street corner, in your opinion?
> 
> Others have documented years, if not decades, of cruising, with no information whatsoever on how they fund it. Are they independently wealthy? Did they inherit the money they are using to cruise full time? Or, in one case, as was revealed on the internet, they were a complete fraud that was appearing destitute, when they were a highly paid internet security consultant. Perhaps they do work and just don't reveal how.
> 
> Is this a new business model? What's your take?


The Patreon route is not a business model, per se, but a revenue stream that *could be* part of a business model.

1) amass followers
2) YT & other PPC revenue
3) ask for donations
4) if 2 & 3 become a fair percentage or amount:
a) Write a book and sell it
b) write movie/short script and sell that
c) sell other novelty items (t-shirts, hats, stickers)
5) If 4 works out, you have the street cred to sell anything you want and can make a living forever if you keep up the good work.

Most of the Patreon and YouTubers you'll find are in the first couple steps and most will never make it to 5 even though they may scrape together a few bucks for a crappy version of 4-a or b.

I would say if you subscribe to a series and you'd be sad to see it go if they can't afford to produce anymore, then give a few bucks. I doubt most people would feel that way. It's basically like a tip jar in the corner of a small coffee shop where some John Mayer wanna-be is going to town on a cheap guitar.

Unless they have millions of views on YT, they aren't making much of anything on ad revenue from the videos themselves. That's why they need something like Patreon (which takes a 5% cut off the top BTW).


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## Minnewaska

SeaDubya said:


> ...I would say if you subscribe to a series and you'd be sad to see it go if they can't afford to produce anymore, then give a few bucks......


That is helpful. It's basic supply and demand.

But, as I think about it, the supply is so vast, I would still have dozen more shows that are still on. In fact, I might feel this way about them all. Do you pay them all?


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## cthoops

We watch and subscribe to several channels, but we haven't donated and I can't see that changing for us. We're saving up for our own cruising dream, which is our main priority. 

While the videos are entertaining, I wouldn't be upset if they went away. Generally, I look at the kind of videos that we're talking about as products from someone's hobby. If they want to share it, fine, but I'm not going to pay them for their hobby nor would I ask someone else to kick in if it was mine. 

The only exception we've made is a subscription to Off Center Harbor. That's kind of comparing apples to oranges, though, since the videos are extremely well-made, often they are educational/tutorials, and they are great boat porn during the off season.


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## Minnewaska

I wonder if we'll see tip jars next to brightwork boat porn specimens at the marina, to help them buy varnish.


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## SeaDubya

Minnewaska said:


> That is helpful. It's basic supply and demand.
> 
> But, as I think about it, the supply is so vast, I would still have dozen more shows that are still on. In fact, I might feel this way about them all. Do you pay them all?


Not at all. I (personally) don't pay any of them and here's why:

Let's say I subscribe to White Spot Pirates (which I do). Her videos were really interesting when she was getting Karl ready and watching her get down and dirty fixing problems (some created by her), etc. Who can pass up a cute girl wrenching a diesel, right? In my opinion they have gone a little downhill and too much "I'm at this island now" videos. So good thing I didn't give back then. But she went on this trip, and continues on it. In her videos it doesn't seem like she needs the money.

So let's say at some point she needs the money. Her videos start to reflect her not eating for days at a time, not having money for fuel to leave the dock, fix Karl, etc. Then what happens is that becomes part of the story. If I donate, then I am removing her story. And her story about how she pulls it off without donations flowing in on Patreon is not going to help her win viewers or get any closer to #5 on my list. But IF she can pull through, find a way to sail Karl all the way back to Germany to see her folks (or wherever), bootstrapping it all the way...THAT is great content and she could write an amazing book and story to go along with it. That story would be lost if people were supporting her cruising lifestyle.

There are not very many video series where an influx of donations would alter the storyline and this is where I find a problem with them.


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## Minnewaska

SeaDubya said:


> ...Let's say I subscribe to White Spot Pirates (which I do).......


Ironically, that is one that I unsubscribed. Found it to be a bunch of BS. No way it's legit solo, like she tried to claim.

Although, I'll grant that watching a cute girl wrench on a diesel was a major attraction.


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## XSrcing

I'm subscribed to 308 channels at the moment. I pretty much always have something interesting to watch. Even if none of my subscriptions have something up, I can surf through the millions of other channels and will always find something entertaining. That's what I love about Youtube. It's completely self serve and offers so much more than traditional television and cable.


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## SeaDubya

Minnewaska said:


> Ironically, that is one that I unsubscribed. Found it to be a bunch of BS. No way it's legit solo, like she tried to claim.
> 
> Although, I'll grant that watching a cute girl wrench on a diesel was a major attraction.


I think it's real. She's not doing much solo, she obviously finds help fixing things and getting work done on the boat. Some people after her first season gave her crap because she was back in Europe and still posting videos like she was there for a few months. But it was because she had the footage, but no internet to post it and wanted to put out a video every week and keep the schedule going. I don't blame her for doing that. If you have people paying per month or video on Patreon, you have to have some sort of schedule and stick to it. Otherwise you lose viewership.

I don't know any boats out there who can cruise around and reliably put up a video every week unless they are cruising the United States East Coast and have great internet all the way down. I am in a marina in Mexico that has three internet hotspots and I can barely WATCH youtube sometimes, forget about actually posting one!


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## SailingStNick

I dream of sailing off on my own or with my son, or with a partner. However, I have little savings and am a single father living on a teacher's salary. I've definitely considered starting a GoFundMe or Patreon account when and if I buy a boat but am not as outgoing (read: confident) as some of those more popular on YouTube. If I were to receive ad income from YouTube (how does one qualify for that?) it would be a plus.

If I had expendable income I would probably donate to some of these sailors, although I would prefer to buy something like a t-shirt or sticker. I would offer something tangible in return were I ever to attempt fundraising.


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## mbianka

I subscribe to a few cruising videos. I watch them over the winter while on the exercise bike to help me get through the winter or at least until my gal and I head out on a charter or two. I attempted to use Pateron to donate to one of the sites but, the attempt went strange. Was not sure if it went through. A few days later I get an email from Pateron that they had been hacked but, no credit card info was accessed. It still spooked me. So I donated via Paypal instead. It was a one time thing. I look at it as the same as buying a fellow sailor a few beers in a bar because you liked their entertaining yarns. If they keep on entertaining me I'll donate again. 

Yes this is a new way of generating income. For decades the only way to get ones video out was too go through the hoops of Hollywood or the broadcast networks. You Tube and other channels allow anyone to make their own videos and have their own channel. Such videos are why I got rid of cable or broadcast TV in my house. I find more interesting and useful stuff on the Internet and You Tube. 
I too produce videos but, they are mostly to augment my blog posts. I know it is a lot of work especially if you want to produce content on a regular schedule like some who I subscribe too. So I think it is worth it to throw a few bucks to those that provide the content I enjoy. As long as they keep the content coming.


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## titustiger27

Not sure if I would say "business model.."

I would say the new paradigm (which is a model.. I guess, but I see it as a new way of thinking). But I don't think it is a new, but a variation of one that existed.

I've always been kind of a socialist. I like that my tax money goes to public radio... and I also donate to them. I never donate to a certain show.. but would consider that.. I did give an extra donation to the local station when one of the "Car Talk" guys died in his memory.

The internet is my TV (I don't actually own a television) I spend lots of time in front of the computer

In the past there on a forum I used to participated on (until a couple people reminded me I was a jerk for pointing out some facts) For that site I did donate to them(I even donated in the name of others because I thought if a guy was making 3,000 posts a year, he should be donating). I would donate here if they had a structure. The typical structure is you have several levels like to be an 'Admiral' $30, 'Captain' $20 and 'Dinghy Master' $10.

One of the things that seems to be missing.. the understanding that people are providing content for the internet/youtube are not making tons of money. If you actually watch them closely you see that they raise money from other sources -- jobs or family wealth..

If the same vlog people were doing the videos for Outdoor Channel they wouldn't need Patreon.. they would probably be paid $50,000 a half hour video. As it is now, Google/Youtube make much more money off of me watching a 15 minute Vlog, than the people who actually make them. Now I understand that it isn't the audience's fault of this paradigm, nor is it the Vloggers.

Not only are they providing entertainment, they actually learning tools. I have come to terms I will never buy a cruising boat ---I am not talented enough to be constantly fixing it... nor do I want to spend my time doing that, I would prefer to watch someone else do it :laugh

I have donated to a couple vlogs.. either straight up, or buying a book... one guy, I just offered to buy a t-shirt if he would use it as a prize for a drawing of the next 27 subscribers

I would say that most everyone who has a vlog, never did so to make money.. They began as a way to have fun with videos; to show their friends or family what they were up to; or to record the learning process. In fact it seems most that have a patreon account do because : it seems the thing to do.

My favorite thing about these Vlogs is when you write to the people, you will likely get a response. I have had folks write me back from the public radio station, but it was a canned, politically correct memo


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## Aswayze

I long ago gave up on the TV after noting that while I paid the cable bill every month, I had not watched the darn thing in 6 months. 

With regular TV pretty much aimed at people with tall foreheads and buck teeth, it was clearly a waste of time. 

On YouTube, I find people actually DOING something, I enjoy that! I enjoy seeing what they are up to, the issues that they face, the challenges they overcome. 

Right now I am fat dumb and happy in a good paying job but in my youth, I was out there on my own adventures (long distance backpacking) so I understand how it feels to have to subsist on a substandard diet due to money constraints or to struggle with gear that is falling apart while having no way to do anything about it. 

Furthermore, I intend to be back out there doing it again and each of the YouTubers I watch helps me to keep the fire alive within my soul. 

You guys can look at it as "charity" but I doubt anyone who says that has ever taken the time to produce the same types of product they are. They are providing more of a service to me than I was getting out of ESPN, certainly more than the Home Shopping Network, and definitely more than any "reality" TV shows. I paid my cable bill and all that got me was 3 zillion channels of bad tv. With the YouTube model, I have the option to PAY for what I consider to be good, me chipping in means that instead of a short trip such as the SV Velocir series, perhaps the guys running it can afford a longer trip and continue to provide me with something I want to watch. 

I pay. 

I am happy to pay. 

I am happy for the guys out there fighting the good fight and enjoying life while I am stuck in conference calls and putting the correct cover pages on my TPS reports. THEY are the ones doing it right and I know it.


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## zeehag

no. no yoo toob. 
i donot find the sailing videos of others out here interesting. 
could be because i have been a sailing person for so very long. 
watching sailing vids is boring. so was watching dennis connor lose americas cup 1983, with his rounding up each time he caught a decent wind. filmed from above....
and so.... videos of cruisers??? no. sorry. 
i post no sailing vids, as sailing vids are boring. i post pix of my sunrises and sunsets and places and anchorages and what i find of interest. sailing videos are not of interest to me, unless they are named pirates of caribean or captain ron, produced well with a decent story plot and actors, forget it. 
is more interesting watching a cat jump out window or climb a tree. 
rocky and bullwinkle were fun. i would LOVE to watch them.....even sailing...rodl


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## titustiger27

Aswayze said:


> I long ago gave up on the TV after noting that while I paid the cable bill every month, I had not watched the darn thing in 6 months.
> 
> With regular TV pretty much aimed at people with tall foreheads and buck teeth, it was clearly a waste of time.
> 
> On YouTube, I find people actually DOING something, I enjoy that! I enjoy seeing what they are up to, the issues that they face, the challenges they overcome.
> 
> Right now I am fat dumb and happy in a good paying job but in my youth, I was out there on my own adventures (long distance backpacking) so I understand how it feels to have to subsist on a substandard diet due to money constraints or to struggle with gear that is falling apart while having no way to do anything about it.
> 
> Furthermore, I intend to be back out there doing it again and each of the YouTubers I watch helps me to keep the fire alive within my soul.
> 
> You guys can look at it as "charity" but I doubt anyone who says that has ever taken the time to produce the same types of product they are. They are providing more of a service to me than I was getting out of ESPN, certainly more than the Home Shopping Network, and definitely more than any "reality" TV shows. I paid my cable bill and all that got me was 3 zillion channels of bad tv. With the YouTube model, I have the option to PAY for what I consider to be good, me chipping in means that instead of a short trip such as the SV Velocir series, perhaps the guys running it can afford a longer trip and continue to provide me with something I want to watch.
> 
> I pay.
> 
> I am happy to pay.
> 
> I am happy for the guys out there fighting the good fight and enjoying life while I am stuck in conference calls and putting the correct cover pages on my TPS reports. THEY are the ones doing it right and I know it.


Like you, haven't watched TV in many years (but at friends house

But I do know that much of television is now 'reality tv' that is fake (I say Survivor is real when people start dying) and what is youtube but real reality. When you watch a man or woman sit down in front of a camera, dejected about something that broke on their boat.. you know it isn't created drama.

I also think, regardless if you donate or pay, there are some very intriguing stories out there. And if one start following a series... and you know that your contribution would keep it going.. that is a reason to contribute


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## Minnewaska

SeaDubya said:


> I think it's real. She's not doing much solo, she obviously finds help fixing things and getting work done on the boat. Some people after her first season gave her crap because she was back in Europe and still posting videos like she was there for a few months.....


I remember the apology video. I didn't care that there was a delay at all. There has to be one. Ironically, however, it got me tuned into how much of a delay I found reasonable.

Since these vids are often vicarious adventures for us, I do find it harder to "get into" if the actual event was too long ago. But I still watch and like many that are obviously old footage (as in years).

My problem with WSP was the fraud of the rebuild in season one. Buying Karl in such decrepit condition, which is portrayed as somewhat unknown, then having the skills to do all those different trades alone, was not legit. Her first attempt to set off on her cruise only to be disappointed was also a story line. The remaining refit that followed was clearly well understood before that fake castoff. It was just as staged as the fake reality tv shows.

To your point, if it was a series where she was being shown how to do it and then did it, I would have thought that was great. But the pretense turned me off.


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## Minnewaska

Aswayze said:


> I pay.
> 
> I am happy to pay.
> 
> I am happy for the guys out there fighting the good fight and enjoying life while I am stuck in conference calls and putting the correct cover pages on my TPS reports. THEY are the ones doing it right and I know it.


Great post. However, how do you decide which one's you pay? How many do you watch vs. how many have you paid?


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## MarcStAug

I wonder if giving $$ to a YouTube personality is much different than paying for a subscription to some of the sailing/cruising blogs? You know, the ones that get you interested in an article and then.. oh no! You have to pay to finish reading it! Makes it more like ePublishing and less like a blog/vBlog.

I really enjoy some of the YouTube vids and subscribe to enough to keep my interest satiated. I find new ones every now and then and binge watch (who knew there was a channel that reviewed and had videos of a huge number of anchors being tested, set/retrieved?) but like someone else said, if one or two disappeared I wouldn't lose any sleep.

I don't think I would ever fund someone's cruising lifestyle regardless of how well put together their videos are. Just MHO (and my bank account.)


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## capta

I find the whole idea of watching these serialized videos a bit odd. After a hard slog across a channel or working on a project on the boat all day, the last thing I want to do is sit down after dinner and watch these things. I've got my own honey who gets greasy and dirty working on our diesels, so that isn't of interest to me. Maybe a video about climbing a mountain or something off Netflix, but sailing/cruising videos? Nope sorry.
As for supporting them? Every one of us would love some extra income I'm sure, but can this actually do any more than buy a beer here and there? Not from my donations. I think in the long run, we'll make a lot more money from the photos we have on the stock photo sites.


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## SeaDubya

capta said:


> I find the whole idea of watching these serialized videos a bit odd. After a hard slog across a channel or working on a project on the boat all day, the last thing I want to do is sit down after dinner and watch these things. I've got my own honey who gets greasy and dirty working on our diesels, so that isn't of interest to me.


I think the general consensus is that people out there sailing aren't going to be paying subscribers. Maybe free subscribers to watch during the winter or when they are on the hard or something. Those paying to watch are people like @Aswayze who are using it to wither fuel a dream, replace cable TV, and/or entertain themselves.

When I post beautiful pictures of sunsets from an anchorage in Mexico on Facebook, most of the likes and "oooh/ahhh" comments come from people sitting in their cubicles at work in the states or just getting home from their long commute. I wouldn't be surprised if people actually sailing make up less than 1% of donors to sailing videos (not that we would ever be able to figure that computation out).


----------



## Minnewaska

I don't even have access to youtube, when I'm out cruising. I totally understand it isn't very desirable to watch others, when actually participating yourself. However, most of us return to shore for some period, if not landlocked for the winter entirely. This is when the vicarious participation occurs.

I still recall the first time I ever went to youtube. I was actually doing an internet search for instructions on how to change the visor on my motorcycle helmet. One of the hits sent me to youtube. I was blown away that some guy filmed himself, sitting in his house, showing how to remove and replace the exact visor on my exact helmet. I've been a youtube fan ever since.

However, that guy never asked for money. 

I know there are a few members of this board that post vids and have patreon accounts. Their perspective would be quite welcome too. Without exception that I'm aware of, they are always humble in their request and grateful for all support. Several issues have been raised in this thread, such as how much can truly be raised, where do they get the money they really need to live on, do they consider it selling a video product or just a tip jar, etc. Most of us are just guessing.


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## titustiger27

SeaDubya said:


> [ snip ]
> 
> When I post beautiful pictures of sunsets from an anchorage in Mexico on Facebook, most of the likes and "oooh/ahhh" comments come from people sitting in their cubicles at work in the states or just getting home from their long commute. I wouldn't be surprised if people actually sailing make up less than 1% of donors to sailing videos (not that we would ever be able to figure that computation out).


Not sure if it is 'hope,' 'want' or 'expect' this to be true

But it would seem that if any vlogger was taking his/her donations and then giving it to another... would make me less likely to want to donate.. mostly because if someone is giving away their donations... maybe they don't need the donations.

Now if a vlogger got a big contract and then gave some around.. I would understand that


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## socal c25

I like watching many videos on YT and I'd contribute to some EXCEPT I need stuff for my boat and I'd like to cruise too, so my money that I earn will go to me, I don't ever expect to be independently wealthy to support my cruising lifestyle and I wouldn't expect to have others pay my way, I guess I'll keep playing the lottery with my extra couple of bucks. However I never dip into the boat fund for playing the Lottery. If the people have something to offer such as T-shirts, stickers, booklets etc... I might purchase stuff.


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## sailvayu

Interesting discussion. As someone who is making videos with the hope of actually making some money from them it is interesting to read these comments. I have a patron account but make very little from it so far I think enough to buy 1 beer. I have spent a lot of money on camera equipment software ect. so it would be nice to get some of that back at some point. I focus on how to videos that I put a lot of effort into and like to think are helpful to others. So I do not think it is a bad thing to ask for some return even though I do have other income sources. Unlike many making how to videos I have 45 years experience building and repairing boats, seems that should be worth something. I have no retirement as every company I had a plan with went bust, just life in the boat biz. So for me this is a way to share my knowledge and help fund my old age. 
I am still trying to figure out how to make this model pay. I think it can be done but just not sure how yet. I do not like to ask for money but it seems the only way at the moment. Youtube ads are annoying and the person doing all the work gets very little while google gets rich so I am avoiding that route. 
In the end I may go with sponsors but I know that will result in some biased content and some in content advertising which may put some off. 
The number of subscribers does relate to better income and I am thinking the best approach would be like TV have sponsors with ads in the content. 
Of course if a hired a cute toppless girl to be my helper could get 5k per video. But then I would be too distracted to get anything done while taping ;-)
Just goes to show boobs are worth more than knowledge. 
I do think for anyone making decent videos there has to be a payback other than just doing it for fun or it will just become too much work for no return and they will quit. 
So I will say if you are entertained or learn something from someones efforts it is a small thing to pay them back for their efforts and help support them regardless of whether you think they need the money or not. They have given something to you in the form of knowledge and entertainment then it is fair you give something back.


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## Minnewaska

Good points Capt Wayne. How-to vids have a greater value proposition than cruising vids, imo. On the other hand, you know your information is credible, but how does the viewer? There is bad info on YT and the rest of the internet too. 

Thanks for the feedback from a vid producer.


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## SeaDubya

I did some binge watching for 6 months this summer as we were in Panama and away from the boat waiting for the birth of our second child to arrive. 

Now that we are back living on the boat, I haven't kept up with any of them even though I am technically still a "subscriber" but not a "donor".

I would think that if someone wanted to really make a serious go at earning some $ then they would have to do twice the work as everyone else (brilliant! LOL)

What I mean is that you have a bunch of not only entertaining, but INSTRUCTIONAL videos that are free, about 2-3 minutes long a piece. THEN you have the same video, same content but it is 8-12 minutes long and full of entertainment and WAY MORE instruction. For instance, you have a 3 minute quick video of how to maintain and re-grease a winch. It has just enough so that anyone who has at least taken the drum off a winch would be able to re-do their winches with that free video. THEN if they were totally lost, or just wanted to be really sure, they could pay a buck or two to view the expanded video that has three video angles, lots of detail and explanations, etc. as if it were being explained to an 8 year old.

I doubt you'd be able to make much of a significant income any other way without having a HUGE following. There is just soooo much competition.


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## seaner97

FWIW- I subscribe to a few magazines and nothing else. I got rid of cable except for Internet 2 years ago and miss it not at all. I might contribute for how tos, but I'd expect anything else to be funded via ads, and I'd be expecting anything I paid to view to be ad free.


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## sailvayu

Minnewaska said:


> Good points Capt Wayne. How-to vids have a greater value proposition than cruising vids, imo. On the other hand, you know your information is credible, but how does the viewer? There is bad info on YT and the rest of the internet too.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback from a vid producer.


Yeah and that is part of the problem, there is a lot of crap out there and a lot of folks trying to do how to vids with clearly no experience. I guess credibility comes with time. 
Also part of this is using the internet to spread the word on its own, "going viral" as they say. It takes time to get the word out and it takes a fair amount of content to gain loyal followers, but with quality content I think it can be done. 
It is a new medium and I do not think anyone knows the secret, if they claim to they are either lucky or lying. 
When I started I was told videos had to be 2-3 min or nobody would watch, I did a 32 min vid on bilge pumps and one professional in the video biz told me it was a waste of time and nobody would watch it. That video has more views than any I have done and remains my most popular despite poor production. It does however have good content and it seems there are those that will watch 32 min on bilge pumps if they are learning something lol


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## Uricanejack

Can’t say I had ever heard of this paying on you tube. I have seen a couple of bikini types on boats in tropical places. They bored me. 32 minutes on bilge pumps might be different. 
I do find a silly old fart on a little boat, sailing up rivers in England interesting. He is in Scotland now. Teaching Scottish history to the locals and saying rude things about motor boats. I bought one of his DVD’s once. Never paid on you tube, But I do pay when I down load one of his films from vimeo. It’s voluntary. His type of sailing is relevant to me and interesting. It’s not a charitable donation. I might be paying for his hobby. Or it’s a small business. Who cares why he does it. I enjoy the product.


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## PaulinVictoria

I liken it to the dreadlocked stinkers sitting around in nice areas with "travelling, need money" signs. If you can't afford to live your dream, don't live it and get a job like the other 99% of people until such time as you can live it. $0 from me, ever.


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## smackdaddy

You're making it too philosophical, Minne. There's nothing wrong with the ask. I think it's more about the expectation - on both sides of "the coin".

Generally, gama has it right:



gamayun said:


> Studies from reputable research groups show (and you can Google this) that happier people give more, and that giving leads to greater feelings of happiness -- it's the classic feedback loop...very Pavlovian. Granted, what the OP asks about is not the traditional "charity" model, but it's the same concept. You approve of the recipient, they represent values you agree with, you want to help said recipient, and then you feel good when doing so. If you get something back in return, even if you were never promised anything for your donation, this just creates more positive reinforcement!
> 
> So, yes; it is a new business model and your conflict probably stems from not knowing whether you support their value systems or not. So you can ask yourself: do you want to see them continue, do you feel your money is going to be used for "good," do you like the people, do you want to see more of their videos, can you afford what you send them, do you think they are trying to scam you, etc. These are personal decisions. I don't think there's either a universal answer or a "right" answer.


So, it really boils down to how you, the viewer, see the product and the ask in the first place. Does the product require work - even if it's covering a hobby? In light of that, is the ask charity? You seem to lean toward the product being purely hobby and the ask being purely charity and seem strangely conflicted about it...



Minnewaska said:


> That is helpful. It's basic supply and demand....Do you pay them all?


Why would you ever pay them all? As you say, it's simple supply and demand. You don't buy everything you see. But there are others that might like what you don't. It doesn't have to be so philosophically monolithic. We're not talking "ethics" here (back to gama's post).

Despite that, even Wayne, who has made some GREAT videos that I've personally watched (e.g. - pulling radar cable through a mast, and taking care of your steering assembly, etc.), is a bit gun-shy about the ask...



sailvayu said:


> I am still trying to figure out how to make this model pay. I think it can be done but just not sure how yet. I do not like to ask for money but it seems the only way at the moment.


*Wayne - you shouldn't be dude. Your stuff is good. Ask.
*
Again, it's about the expectations of producer and viewer.

So let's first look at the product. Is it work or is it hobby? Well, it's both. The activity of cruising - the subject of the videos - is definitely hobby. But, unless you've actually made a video series, you have no idea how much work, equipment, cost, time, money, etc. it really takes. So you shouldn't really judge it so easily.

As Wayne said, from this standpoint, the ask makes perfect sense to try to cover some of that time and expense. After all, it's just the producer funding his own desire and vision to make the movie. If you as a viewer don't want to pay for the ticket - don't pay. No big deal. Then, depending on the box office figures, the filmmaker then makes the decision on whether to continue making movies or not. It's purely his/her call.

But why should some viewers' philosophy about whether or not it's "right" to sell tickets to what they might see as "only entertainment" matter to the producer? Again, there's no ethical dilemma here - it's just business.

For me, it doesn't matter at all if we ever have a single Patreon supporter. I'll do this video stuff anyway as a history for my kids and family. That's my own expectation. But I have no problem allowing interested viewers to enjoy the thrill of throwing a buck or two into the hat if they want to. Why the hell not? And I won't feel at all guilty about it if someone decides to. Again, it's just business...either way.

Now let's look at the ask. As has been said, if the producer's expectation is for the video series to fully fund his/her lifestyle...that may be quite a long shot. Some do seem to get a bit desperate for that in their pleas - and it gets a bit uncomfortable. It feels more like charity than business at that point.

On the other hand, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with that expectation of full funding *if he/she can pull it off*. Sure, it might make some old dudes bitter about "these kids begging for money" - but who cares? After all, look at a few of the more popular cruising content producers and how much they are making PER VIDEO via Patreon...then ask yourself how much they need the approval of old bitter dudes:

S/V Delos: $5,246
Sailing La Vagabond: $3,671
Wicked Salty: $911
White Spot Pirates: $807
Drake Paragon: $459

Now look at S/V Delos' YT channel. You'll see that they put up a couple of videos (or more) per month. Up to - and maybe more than *$11K per month* (not even counting the YT revenue itself) - for videos that are typically 30 minutes or so in duration. That's REAL demand my friend...from actual viewers...and it's a huge amount of money for the enjoyment and work that goes into supplying that demand. How can anyone be anything but jealous of success like that - both in the video work they do and the lifestyle they live? They freakin' rock. No question. So they'd be stupid NOT to ask.

Some dudes let this jealously make them bitter - and others let it compel them to make a better product. I tend to like the latter group a lot more than the former.

At the end of the day, it seems the key to big money is naked, drunk beautiful people in exotic locations. Who knew?

Wayne - can you find a girl in a bikini to help you wrench on stuff? There is a formula you know! Heh-heh.

So, again, back to the expectations. I see nothing wrong with anyone and everyone putting out a tip jar in front of their hard work (the videos) - even if it was derived from a hobby (cruising, extreme skiing, skydiving, parkour, music, whatever).

To try to make it some ethical conundrum is just silly. Pay or don't pay. Who gives a damn?


----------



## hannah2

PaulinVictoria said:


> I liken it to the dreadlocked stinkers sitting around in nice areas with "travelling, need money" signs. If you can't afford to live your dream, don't live it and get a job like the other 99% of people until such time as you can live it. $0 from me, ever.


How true, right on!

It's like people with boats that make crew members pay for crewing on their boat so they can live their dream. Hell the crew member is working for you and you can at least pay for the crews food.

The thought of paying to watch someones video so they can continue sailing. Gives me the creeps. But there is a sucker born every minute as they say.

Cheers


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## sailvayu

PaulinVictoria said:


> I liken it to the dreadlocked stinkers sitting around in nice areas with "travelling, need money" signs. If you can't afford to live your dream, don't live it and get a job like the other 99% of people until such time as you can live it. $0 from me, ever.


I fail to see why people think asking for some money for their efforts is begging. They spend money for cameras and other equipment spend many hours editing their work and post it for free only asking for contributions for their efforts if you like it.
You pay to go to the movies, you pay for TV, you pay for books, you pay for magazines, yet somehow because you do not have to pay for this up front it is begging?
If you like their work and get something out of it either knowledge or entertainment then you should give back for that. if you do not like it then you have lost nothing and you should not subscribe and continue to watch. Unlike a bad movie you are out nothing but a bit of time. Seems pretty fair to me. 
The real stinkers are the ones that feel they should benefit from other's work without having to give back. 
It has nothing to do with being able to afford the dream but everything to do with giving back for what you have taken. Nobody thinks twice about paying 12 bucks to see a movie where the actor is paid 25 mil yet will not consider giving 2 bucks to help someone trying to entertain or educate others.


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## Minnewaska

sailvayu said:


> ...If you like their work and get something out of it either knowledge or entertainment then you should give back for that...


How much and often do you give?

I bet I watch a dozen vids a day that meet this criteria.


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## Minnewaska

smackdaddy said:


> You're making it too philosophical, Minne.
> 
> Sure, it might make some old dudes bitter
> 
> ask yourself how much they need the approval of old bitter dudes:
> 
> Some dudes let this jealously make them bitter - and others let it compel them to make a better product. I tend to like the latter group a lot more than the former.
> 
> To try to make it some ethical conundrum is just silly. Pay or don't pay. Who gives a damn?


I'll thank you to take your penchant for starting an argument elsewhere. The adults are talking here and, until you arrived, no one was calling anyone names and getting all snotty.


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## gamayun

smackdaddy said:


> ...Wayne - can you find a girl in a bikini to help you wrench on stuff? There is a formula you know! Heh-heh.


Ha. I've often thought about starting a vlog entitled, Biology Babe with Boobs, Brains and Boat" and see whether it could help fund my racing adventures. Sounds way too pretentious and alliterative tho 

Seriously....however....where can I find the video about Wayne pulling new antenna cable up the mast? I plan to do this soon. I'd pay good $$ for that!


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## Ninefingers

I don't think he was starting an argument.

I contribute to Drake and have done a one time contribution to another of $25. (The folks with the dog in California...heck I should probably find their stuff and keep watching but I can't remember who they are, lol!)

I like Lavagabonde the best, but I won't I won't contribute to them because they are getting enough money as is. Drake is working his ass off and needs it more in my opinion. I like underdogs )

And there you go. That's how I arrive at it.


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## smackdaddy

gamayun said:


> Ha. I've often thought about starting a vlog entitled, Biology Babe with Boobs, Brains and Boat" and see whether it could help fund my racing adventures. Sounds way too pretentious and alliterative tho


Hell no! That's perfect! Where's your Patreon account?!?!?

Heh-heh.

PS - Here's Wayne's channel:

https://www.youtube.com/user/Sailvayu/featured

...and the radar install...






Great stuff.


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## sailvayu

Minnewaska said:


> How much and often do you give?
> 
> I bet I watch a dozen vids a day that meet this criteria.


That's a really good question I would suggest you give to a couple each month. I know we are all not rich and cannot give to every video we watch but giving back at least a little from time to time helps. Spread it around I am sure even a little will be appreciated.

For those who asked you can search my name in the youtube search box to find my channel. Although promoting my stuff was not my purpose in this discussion.


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## Minnewaska

sailvayu said:


> That's a really good question I would suggest you give to a couple each month......


Definitely a reasonable amount, but that would be a couple among literally hundreds. Hard to figure which are the worthy.

Is this how often you contribute to other vid channels?


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## smackdaddy

Minnewaska said:


> I'll thank you to take your penchant for starting an argument elsewhere. The adults are talking here and, until you arrived, no one was calling anyone names and getting all snotty.


Wow. I could have sworn I read this:



Minnewaska said:


> I know there are a few members of this board that post vids and have patreon accounts. Their perspective would be quite welcome too.


So you're welcome.

And as for the adult conversation, I could have sworn I read these too:



Minnewaska said:


> ...they were a complete fraud that was appearing destitute, when they were a highly paid internet security consultant...
> 
> Found it to be a bunch of BS. No way it's legit solo, like she tried to claim.
> 
> My problem with WSP was the fraud of the rebuild in season one.


I'm not starting a fight. I'm giving my perspective...just like everyone else.


----------



## titustiger27

sailvayu said:


> I fail to see why people think asking for some money for their efforts is begging. They spend money for cameras and other equipment spend many hours editing their work and post it for free only asking for contributions for their efforts if you like it.
> You pay to go to the movies, you pay for TV, you pay for books, you pay for magazines, yet somehow because you do not have to pay for this up front it is begging?
> If you like their work and get something out of it either knowledge or entertainment then you should give back for that. if you do not like it then you have lost nothing and you should not subscribe and continue to watch. Unlike a bad movie you are out nothing but a bit of time. Seems pretty fair to me.
> [ snip ]


Many cities have a performance license.. like $20 to play a guitar on the corner...(and even if there is the chance to do this for free) and musician has a hat in front of him her- self.. are they begging? or just entertaining and hoping for a donation?

Most of the vlogs, I watch, I feel more obligated to donate not by the begging, but the lack of it. These are people who are happy with what they do and are willing to have a nice dialog with you about it.

.. ask them something, they will answer.


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## sailvayu

Minnewaska said:


> Definitely a reasonable amount, but that would be a couple among literally hundreds. Hard to figure which are the worthy.
> 
> Is this how often you contribute to other vid channels?


I do not really watch any of the lifestyle channels and only check out the how to to see what is out there. That said if I search a how to say for fixing my car or something and it helps me I will kink in a few bucks.

I should also mention you do not always have to give money it helps to click on the ads. Also subscribing will help with better ranking which in turn brings in more viewers which can bring in more revenue. So you do not always have to give money to help. Reposting videos you like in forums can help too. So you see it is not always about giving money directly.


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## Minnewaska

sailvayu said:


> ....Also subscribing will help with better ranking which in turn brings in more viewers which can bring in more revenue......


Cool. I do subscribe to many channels, so I'm glad that is equally helpful to them all. Ironically, I'm also now motivated to unsubscribe, when I find them objectionable. Free market stuff is good.

As others have mentioned products, I did buy Michael's book (Sequiter). The book sorta stunk (way too big and mostly a forum reprint), but I was happy to support them for following their journey.


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## sailvayu

titustiger27 said:


> Many cities have a performance license.. like $20 to play a guitar on the corner...(and even if there is the chance to do this for free) and musician has a hat in front of him her- self.. are they begging? or just entertaining and hoping for a donation?
> 
> Most of the vlogs, I watch, I feel more obligated to donate not by the begging, but the lack of it. These are people who are happy with what they do and are willing to have a nice dialog with you about it.
> 
> .. ask them something, they will answer.


If you go to a Jimmy Buffet concert and you pay at the door to see him he is earning his pay, but if he asked for a donation at the door he would be begging?

I would think he is entertaining and asking for your support for his efforts, talents and cost of putting on the show.

Yes I agree some put a lot of pressure to give but it is no worse than the endless commercials we see on TV and even now when we go to a movie we have already paid up front for. It is more a matter of what you are used to, we except the commercials begging us to buy their products but not an individual asking for support of their work


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## titustiger27

sailvayu said:


> If you go to a Jimmy Buffet concert and you pay at the door to see him he is earning his pay, but if he asked for a donation at the door he would be begging?
> 
> I would think he is entertaining and asking for your support for his efforts, talents and cost of putting on the show.
> 
> Yes I agree some put a lot of pressure to give but it is no worse than the endless commercials we see on TV and even now when we go to a movie we have already paid up front for. It is more a matter of what you are used to, we except the commercials begging us to buy their products but not an individual asking for support of their work


You pay to use you tube?

When I was child.. at a county fair.. I went to a fair and they had some "Thunder of Death" motorcycle thing.. and after my parents paid to get in.. the motor cycle group asked for people to throw coins down to cover their insurance...

Felt sorry for the motor cycle group.. but they are asking for money on top of money paid to get in --- well like your Jimmy Buffet analogy

People making Vlogs put them up on the internet.. so they have on their own coin had to video, edit, up load (via an internet connection).. so they own a camera, computer internet access........

I would understand this better if Jimmy Buffet was a street performer.


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## gamayun

sailvayu said:


> For those who asked you can search my name in the youtube search box to find my channel. Although promoting my stuff was not my purpose in this discussion.


Subscribed!! As an aside, is there a Yelp site to rate sailing videos....?


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## titustiger27

gamayun said:


> Subscribed!! As an aside, is there a Yelp site to rate sailing videos....?


Yelp for videos.. that might be good...

having an opinion is dangerous


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## XSrcing

I paid $30 for my wife and I to see a local band last night. It was awesome and worth it. 

I give what I think the entertainment/knowledge is of value to me. Some get more. Others get less. But that is a personal decision. And one I don't think I need to defend to anyone for any reason. If I you think donating to YT channels is dumb because you are a cruiser, fantastic. I don't care.


----------



## dylanwinter1

blimey this thread picked up its skirts and ran - and a good time to post it the day after new year.

I guess I am the most prolific and long lasting of the sailing video film makers

I have been making youtube sailing films since 2008 when I bought a £100 DV camera to film my mid life crisis adventure around the UK in an 18 foot £2,000 45 year old boat

I have been a sailor all my life and a pro broadcast hack for the past 25

The early films now look pretty ropey but they got a lot of hits because there were bum all other sailing films up on youtube. Certainly nothing with a structure and a story and a sound track that was anything other than wind noise.

the hits on the sailing films were nothing compared to the hits from the truck films I had put up

30 million truck hits or so (worth maybe $45,000) for a short period I was making around $800 a month from the adsense revenue on those but a sailing film with 20,000 hits is worth around $20 in adsense revenue. Not even worth wrecking a camera with salt for that

then I got dumped from adsense because they did not like my click pattern

Duckworks - All boat design is a compromise - Rubbish

so they kicked me out but still place adverts against the films and keep all the money rather than cutting me the $1 per thousand they were once giving me. That was five years ago. There is no redemption in the land of google - especially when they make more money from keeping you out of the system.

so making money from youtube is tough and please don't click on the adverts to support sailors without following through and buying the products otherwise youtube will stop the small revenue stream these other sailors are already getting.

just think about that a content producer asking you not to click on the ads - this is one weird world of google algorithms.

I was not making any money from the sailing vids but a bloke over here started stripping them from youtube, burning them onto dvds and selling them to his band width restricted mates in return for a donation to the RNLI.

It proved that people would pay for good content. I knew nothing about mastering DVDs so he offered to master the first couple for me. Very nice man.

I was earning a living as a cameraman at the time but would not have been prepared to take my pro gear on an 18 footer because I needed it to for my real work.

so I raised my game - bought a semi pro HD camera and mike that I could afford to drop over the side without committing career suicide and started making DVDs. I had fancy printed DVds made up with images on them and fancy printed inserts

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/ktl-packshot-300x225.jpg

They sold almost none at all in the summer but enough to make it worth while in the winter. My best week was 50 DVDs in a week at £15 each. The cost of the postage, padded bags, repro of DVDs, printing etc was £5 so that was £500 in a week. Man I was pleased but that was about three weeks before christmas and then the sales fell away. During the summer it was at best five a week. Often none at all.

I was having problems getting them through US customs but a bloke in Chicago took over the US end - he did the printing and dispatching over there and sent them out. The deal was that the people sent me an email asking for the DVDs, they were dispatched from here or Chicago and then the sailors paid me once they arrived. I then clicked half the cover cost of the american DVDs back to my chicago friend.

A pattern was established - good money November and beginning of December - maybe $500 a week then a trickle through Jan, feb and march followed by zip all the rest of the year

The DVDs did okay but not enough to give up the day job. It was enough to allow me to sail to more places and do more than just drift up and down the same river each weekend drinking red wine and coffee while watching the birds.

Then last year, as the man from Sony said, DVD sales fell off a cliff.

I thought that was the end of that but the Mainly Old Blokes prevailed on me to put a paypal button up on the website pages.

I put some nags some nags on the beginning and end of the youtube versions of the films and people started going to my website and clicking on the paypal buttons.

A brilliant week in the winter when America gets a decent polar vortex and it is raining in the UK might bring in $500 in clicks

in the summer - back to zip all again.

as an old ugly bloke sailing a series of unexceptional boats up british rivers and making witty comments about the geography and history along the way I cannot compete with the naked breasted wenches of Delos grinding winches and scuba diving in crystal clear water - but that is okay.

The problem is that when we watch youtube we have our "it is all free heads on" - or at least a belief that you have already paid by watching the adverts for stair lifts or Ford Pintos.

The fact is that youtube/google grabs all that revenue. If you use music on the films then Sony or VMG claim the film and the ad revenue. Rights to the films effectively belong to sony, Google and VMG.

As an old newspaper hack then a broadcast journalist tthis is a new idea. people do not pay before they are able to watch, they just pay as a contribution to making sure that there will be films in the future.

Like the bloke on the excercise bike in Canada - he clicks the films so that he will have something to watch next winter.

I certainly distinguish between the blog films I make such as the how to fit roller reefing and the "proper" ones with googlemap,s voice over, a decent sound track and proper structure. I put paypal buttons on the episodes but not on the blogs.

Currently the youtube films are getting around 3,000 hits a day, the website is getting around 1200. The films on vimeo are getting about 250 hits a day.

I have one advert on the top of my website which brings in £50 a month.

It will be an interesting winter to see what happens to the paypal clicks.

Righto..... back to the editing while I wait for the rain to stop and the wind to ease up so that I can go and do some winter sailing and filming. The next film I will post is about my first landfall in Orkney and the journey around to Kirkwall. 50 miles in a 26 foot 40 year old boat I acquired for £1. I reckin making the film will take me about 40 hours at the video editing system.

This year is make or break for the film-making. I will finish the journey and carry on sailing and blogging but this winter will determine the future of the nicely made films.

it is all about the ratio of freeloaders to MOBs and keeping people coming back to the website - which requires feeding with new material almost every day

D

PS I am very happy to answer any questions about costs and revenue. I think that is part of the deal.

I have just bought another boat which is currently in Falmouth - the boat cost me £5,500 to buy, the marina pontoon is costing me £800 through the winter, I use £50 worth of petrol every time I drive down to the boat. I drive $700 clunkers and kill one every two years.


----------



## mbianka

titustiger27 said:


> I would understand this better if Jimmy Buffet was a street performer.


Actually when Jimmy Buffet was starting out he use to play on Duval St. in Key West back in the 70's. Today he probably would have his own You Tube channel like a lot of talented young musicians have.

I like the You Tube model. I have not stepped into a movie theater in years. It's so 1930's.  Besides taking the chance of coming down with TB or picking up a bedbug or two.  I also get outraged that even after paying my money they make me sit through ten minutes of commercials before the movie. I did not pay them to take time out of my life! Then if the movie sucks you can't get your money back. At least with YT you don't pay upfront but, can throw a few bucks to those making more interesting content without the middle man taking his cut. But, only if you like it.


----------



## mbianka

dylanwinter1 said:


> blimey this thread picked up its skirts and ran - and a good time to post it the day after new year.
> 
> I guess I am the most prolific and long lasting of the sailing video film makers
> 
> I have been making youtube sailing films since 2008 when I bought a £100 DV camera to film my mid life crisis adventure around the UK in an 18 foot £2,000 45 year old boat
> 
> I have been a sailor all my life and a pro broadcast hack for the past 25
> 
> Righto..... back to the editing while I wait for the rain to stop and the wind to ease up so that I can go and do some winter sailing and filming. The next film I will post is about my first landfall in Orkney and the journey around to Kirkwall. 50 miles in a 26 foot 40 year old boat I acquired for £1. I reckin making the film will take me about 40 hours at the video editing system.
> 
> This year is make or break for the film-making. I will finish the journey and carry on sailing and blogging but this winter will determine the future of the nicely made films.
> 
> it is all about the ratio of freeloaders to MOBs and keeping people coming back to the website - which requires feeding with new material almost every day
> 
> D


Always great hear to hear your views Dylan. I have a question on the process you use for sorting out your shots. Do you sit down and view what you have taken and write a description of each shot down or do you just edit as you look at each shot on your video editor?

I worked in the TV biz myself though on the technical/engineering side. I know former film cameramen use to often edit in camera since film was so precious and limited in time. Shooting video these days on an SD card not so much. Do you shoot differently too?

I'm currently going through my 1,000's of boat photos and naming each one in the hope that it will save time in finding specific shots for a future blog postings i.e "Porta Boat dingy" instead of IMG 1775. Six hours into the project still not done. Do you this type of categorizing too?

Certainly your revenue stream matches my viewing habits on the Internet. Winter is when I view videos like yours or Drakes. I hardly ever watch videos when I am living on board. Not only because the bandwidth eats up gigabits and $ on the phone bill. But, there is so much to see with my own eyes.


----------



## dylanwinter1

all change at youtube

they are going to put successful producers - not sure if two million sailing hits means me as well - behind a paywall

the revenue will go to google

here is the story


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3quoip

one thing about the web is that nothing is forever

I am 60 years old this year

not sure if I can keep up


----------



## dylanwinter1

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3quoip


----------



## Minnewaska

dylanwinter1 said:


> ....so making money from youtube is tough and please don't click on the adverts to support sailors without following through and buying the products otherwise youtube will stop the small revenue stream these other sailors are already getting........


Dylan, thanks much for your feedback and detail. Your vid material is clearly among the most professional there is.

Could you explain this quote above, I didn't really follow. If I click on an advert within a site, I should need to buy the product or the producer risks being kicked out of the system? On my ipad, I accidentally click on the adverts often. Less so, with the laptop pointer.

(edit: I went back and read the link you provided earlier in your post, which describes how google/youtube shut off your ad revenue, because you were getting an unusually high level of ad clicks. Seemed like their point was that their advertisers were being required to pay for all those clicks, but not getting the sale. I suppose some may indeed falsely click, just to bump revenue and thinking they are just helping, so that seems smart on google's part. However, inhumane as well, if that's not what's happening)

If you look across the system, what do you think drives the most paid volume. Obviously, sex sells and a good bikini winch grinder gets clicks. Otherwise, is it production quality, storyline, location? I can't really identify a pattern (other than the bikinis).


----------



## dylanwinter1

mbianka said:


> Always great hear to hear your views Dylan. I have a question on the process you use for sorting out your shots. Do you sit down and view what you have taken and write a description of each shot down or do you just edit as you look at each shot on your video editor?
> 
> I worked in the TV biz myself though on the technical/engineering side. I know former film cameramen use to often edit in camera since film was so precious and limited in time. Shooting video these days on an SD card not so much. Do you shoot differently too?
> 
> I'm currently going through my 1,000's of boat photos and naming each one in the hope that it will save time in finding specific shots for a future blog postings i.e "Porta Boat dingy" instead of IMG 1775. Six hours into the project still not done. Do you this type of categorizing too?
> 
> Certainly your revenue stream matches my viewing habits on the Internet. Winter is when I view videos like yours or Drakes. I hardly ever watch videos when I am living on board. Not only because the bandwidth eats up gigabits and $ on the phone bill. But, there is so much to see with my own eyes.


I have terabytes of video now sitting on the shelves

KTL is pretty linear so I know where I have shot stuff and it needs to go into the time line in the order it was shot in

I have been a hack for decades so I have an excellent short term memory and can brain dump stuff pretty quickly

I watch the four hours of rushes per 30 minutes film and snip out the stuff that works

maybe 45 minutes

then I stick it in order

spend some time on wiki looking for info on the places - such as the stuff about bonny prince charlie and the skye boat song or thomas telford using sugar and lead to seal joints in cast iron.

then I knock out a buzz track - rough voice over badly recorded at my desk

then I spend two hours on google earth making the geography make sense and download that

then I add the music and polish the sript and record that on the dining room table using sleeping bags and cushions to make a sound booth

that is then stitched in - the music is added and the images trimmed to fit with the music

then I sound balance - then colour balance

then I make a version for vimeo and another for youtube

I also make dvds for the few MOBs who still want them

through all this if the sun shines I walk away from the desk and go sailing

paypal takes 6 per cent and hammers me on the dollar to sterling conversions - say 10 per cent goes to them

the UK govt take 20 per cent
vimeo costs me $150 of so

youtube is free and they make around $6 a day from the sailing films and are making around $60 dollars a day from the trucj films despite me not having posted one for three years.

camera gear which dies through salt costs me $1000 a year

petrol for the car is $6 a us gallon - I reckon it costs me a tank to get to scotland to the boat

moorings and yard storage, haul outs are around £2,000 a year

does it pay

naaah

but I am loving my sailing and the paypal clicks allow me to sail more than I otherwise would do

I love getting feedback from sailors - and they occasionaly send me mad gifts of tins of fish or cleats or bits of rope

will I keep going -

well I will keep sailing

but the viability of making the proper films is right on the edge

this winter will tell

I am praying for a the USA to have a really, really tough winter so that those mid west lake sailors are stuck indoors on their excercise bikes

D


----------



## Minnewaska

Reading some of the links in Dylan's post brought the Amazon click through to my attention. It's always been interesting that an Amazon link that you might paste into your post here will appear with the picture of the product. I use it all the the time for that purpose alone, not realizing that SN would get a penny or two, if a reader clicked on it and actually bought the product from Amazon. 

That feature is quite clever on Amazon's/SN part. I could post a link to the product anywhere, but usually check to see if it's listed on Amazon first, just so that the picture appears.


----------



## Minnewaska

dylanwinter1 said:


> ....I am praying for a the USA to have a really, really tough winter so that those mid west lake sailors are stuck indoors on their excercise bikes
> 
> D


I ain't paying for that! I will now consider it your fault.


----------



## copacabana

Patreon seems to me like a great system. If you like the content of a video or producer, you pay. If you don't like it, you don't pay. No one is making you support the videos and you can watch them for free anyway.


----------



## Minnewaska

So, here's my routine, sort of. Last night took on a new perspective, with this thread discussion as a background. 

I often watch youtube vids, while lying in bed, on my ipad, with ear buds in so my wife can sleep/read. I would say I watch for 30 min to as much as 60 mins, before going to sleep or shutting it off to read. Last night, I find myself going through my subscriptions to see what's new and hitting on some of the "suggested videos" in the margin for related channels, etc.

Of course, I keep thinking, would I contribute to this one? I found myself being way more critical of the content, production, etc. than I ever cared about before. One talked about putting out anchor scope and was completely wrong. Another was boring and I clicked on another vid before it was over. Another had endless footage of water going by on their sail, with a music track, but nothing else happened. I started to watch an hour long Louis CK comedy act, but only got about 15 mins in and clicked away. It was reposted by someone else (not Louis CK) so why would I have paid that guy? 

It could have been an anomaly, but I found I didn't even watch half of the vids to the end to see if they asked at all. They didn't keep my attention, due to poor content, quality or simply running out of interest. 

The thought of wondering if I would pay actually ruined most of the vids, which may have just been mindless chatter at the bar, like some bloke trying to show you pics of their boat or family. 

Now, it became a product I had to decide whether I wanted to buy and most just weren't very good. Interesting.


----------



## titustiger27

mbianka said:


> Actually when Jimmy Buffet was starting out he use to play on Duval St. in Key West back in the 70's. Today he probably would have his own You Tube channel like a lot of talented young musicians have.
> 
> I like the You Tube model. I have not stepped into a movie theater in years. It's so 1930's.  Besides taking the chance of coming down with TB or picking up a bedbug or two.  I also get outraged that even after paying my money they make me sit through ten minutes of commercials before the movie. I did not pay them to take time out of my life! Then if the movie sucks you can't get your money back. At least with YT you don't pay upfront but, can throw a few bucks to those making more interesting content without the middle man taking his cut. But, only if you like it.


Jimmy Buffet actually has his own model, other than youtube

Margaritaville. If you sign up you can stream his concerts (some past, some live). Then you get regular mail trying to get you to buy things from his site.

You bring up (indirectly) one of the things about youtube that drives me nuts...

Regardless if you pay or donate to the people making the content, Youtube sticks in commercials. I understand that most things have commercials.. but I also feel --- at times --- as if I have been hoodwinked. For example: After the Superbowl I will go and watch the commercials...And before I can watch the commercial, youtube makes me watch other commercials.. Of course, youtube are not the only ones. I will watch baseball highlights and to watch a 20 second homerun, I am forced to endure a 30-60 second commercial


----------



## sailvayu

titustiger27 said:


> Jimmy Buffet actually has his own model, other than youtube
> 
> Margaritaville. If you sign up you can stream his concerts (some past, some live). Then you get regular mail trying to get you to buy things from his site.
> 
> You bring up (indirectly) one of the things about youtube that drives me nuts...
> 
> Regardless if you pay or donate to the people making the content, Youtube sticks in commercials. I understand that most things have commercials.. but I also feel --- at times --- as if I have been hoodwinked. For example: After the Superbowl I will go and watch the commercials...And before I can watch the commercial, youtube makes me watch other commercials.. Of course, youtube are not the only ones. I will watch baseball highlights and to watch a 20 second homerun, I am forced to endure a 30-60 second commercial


The channel owners can select whether to have ads on their videos or not. I agree I do not like it when there are ads and then ask for additional money. I understand google needs to make money for suppling a platform but if they are not going to share that revenue with the contributer then that is not fair either. Sadly this is not a perfect setup and has it's drawbacks for sure.

Maybe a good solution would be to have an ad free experience if you contribute but as far as I know there is no way to do that. In fact google is working at making it harder for creators to link to donation pages.


----------



## dylanwinter1

sailvayu said:


> The channel owners can select whether to have ads on their videos or not. I agree I do not like it when there are ads and then ask for additional money. I understand google needs to make money for suppling a platform but if they are not going to share that revenue with the contributer then that is not fair either. Sadly this is not a perfect setup and has it's drawbacks for sure.
> 
> Maybe a good solution would be to have an ad free experience if you contribute but as far as I know there is no way to do that. In fact google is working at making it harder for creators to link to donation pages.


no ads on the vimeo films - but then I have to persuade people to move to my website to access the videos - where they can be streamed or downloaded for freemans.

One of the snags with youtube is that once a film has finished and the MOBs have stopped watching my film then you tube offers them Delos girls grinding winches with their busters showing

v hard to stick with the old bloke sailing **** boats through muddy essex rivers.

One of the snags with telling youtube not to put ads on the films is that youtube will then not let them appear in the feed on the right hand side or the suggested films afterwards.

Incidentally the youtube contract I signed/clicked is 20,000 words long. A lawyer friend read it for me and said that it was an amazing document. She was only half joking when she said that by clicking I had agreed for google to come into my house and take away my babies.

when I was getting cheques from youtube they came from Switzerland

they do not pay their taxes

D


----------



## Minnewaska

I totally get that youtube may be misbehaving. However, one can also create their own web page and post their own videos and keep all the ad revenue from all their own contracts. 

Why don't these producers just make their own page? In fact, the few personal pages I've visited, often link back to youtube. I think the answer justifies a bit of youtube trying to make a buck on their investment. They have something people seem to want.


----------



## dylanwinter1

Minnewaska said:


> I totally get that youtube may be misbehaving. However, one can also create their own web page and post their own videos and keep all the ad revenue from all their own contracts.
> 
> Why don't these producers just make their own page? In fact, the few personal pages I've visited, often link back to youtube. I think the answer justifies a bit of youtube trying to make a buck on their investment. They have something people seem to want.


you tube/google is a very powerful organisation

a popular film will be hosted in several locations

for a while I streamed my films from my amazon cloud

but the films were hosted in LA

when America was asleep then I got a pretty good service and the films ran okay - provided you had large pipes at home

but as soon as America woke up then the films slowed to the point where they would not stream

certainly you tube puts a lot of effort into getting its infrastructure right and man can it ever deliver

they offer lip service to supporting the people who make the films but they are hollow words

they have me over a barrell

here is my best film on youtube

45,000 hits with my sons girlfriend on the foredeck






and here is the vimeo version which you can watch without being called a carbuncle






for most people the youtube one will star way ahead of the vimeo one which I have paid to have hosted

3,000 views on vimeo


----------



## Minnewaska

Sounds like youtube invented (or just invested in) a better mousetrap. Not that it excuses bad behavior.


----------



## sailvayu

dylanwinter1 said:


> no ads on the vimeo films - but then I have to persuade people to move to my website to access the videos - where they can be streamed or downloaded for freemans.
> 
> One of the snags with youtube is that once a film has finished and the MOBs have stopped watching my film then you tube offers them Delos girls grinding winches with their busters showing
> 
> v hard to stick with the old bloke sailing **** boats through muddy essex rivers.
> 
> One of the snags with telling youtube not to put ads on the films is that youtube will then not let them appear in the feed on the right hand side or the suggested films afterwards.
> 
> Incidentally the youtube contract I signed/clicked is 20,000 words long. A lawyer friend read it for me and said that it was an amazing document. She was only half joking when she said that by clicking I had agreed for google to come into my house and take away my babies.
> 
> when I was getting cheques from youtube they came from Switzerland
> 
> they do not pay their taxes
> 
> D


Well that is not fully true about vids with no ads not showing up as I have checked and mine, they do show up and several of mine show up at the end as well. Not sure why you are not getting that but with google you never know and as a matter of fact neither do the people working there as it is really run by the computer robots. The people have little control at this point. I have talked to them and the bottom line is they have little control.

Delos shows up because they get so many hits. Sex sells and always will I guess, personally I do not like using sex to make money, I enjoy a cute girl as much as the next person but if you are using that to push your product you have lost me as a viewer. Maybe that's because i just do not look good in a bikini and I am jealous ;-)


----------



## sailvayu

Minnewaska said:


> I totally get that youtube may be misbehaving. However, one can also create their own web page and post their own videos and keep all the ad revenue from all their own contracts.
> 
> Why don't these producers just make their own page? In fact, the few personal pages I've visited, often link back to youtube. I think the answer justifies a bit of youtube trying to make a buck on their investment. They have something people seem to want.


The problem is youtube is owned by google who really control what people see on the internet. For those starting out if you want to be discovered you have to use the most popular platform which of course is owned by google. You have little chance of being seem on any other platform. It's not right but it is what it is. I could get going on how I feel about google controlling the worlds information but that would be way off topic and best left for another forum lol


----------



## dylanwinter1

sailvayu said:


> Well that is not fully true about vids with no ads not showing up as I have checked and mine, they do show up and several of mine show up at the end as well. Not sure why you are not getting that but with google you never know and as a matter of fact neither do the people working there as it is really run by the computer robots. The people have little control at this point. I have talked to them and the bottom line is they have little control.
> 
> Delos shows up because they get so many hits. Sex sells and always will I guess, personally I do not like using sex to make money, I enjoy a cute girl as much as the next person but if you are using that to push your product you have lost me as a viewer. Maybe that's because i just do not look good in a bikini and I am jealous ;-)


ah

youtube shows you your films because they are your films

they are highly unlikely to show up in feeds to other desktops unless you allow them to show ads

try this experiment

pick two films with about the same hit rate

enable ads on one and disable them on the other

then see what happens

I am cofident that you will see the hits start to diverge

D


----------



## Minnewaska

sailvayu said:


> The problem is youtube is owned by google who really control what people see on the internet. For those starting out if you want to be discovered you have to use the most popular platform which of course is owned by google.


Understood. But that didn't come free, there were billions invested. Actually, google invented a better mousetrap, since there were other popular search engines long before google. Still, there are others that many people do use, they're just not as popular.

Anyway, we digress. Back to whether folks throw a few bucks at youtube vid producers. I have bought products (eg Michaels book) and used to try to use the former SN store, when they were the same owner.

I actually respect those that have a straight up subscription fee for their vids. You're either worth it or your not. Very cool.

I have no problem with the tip jar concept, I just can't as easily get my head around who to pay. There is so much content, you can't pay them all. Once it becomes a product and not just a conversation at the bar, my expectation for quality goes way up. That's in complete contrast to the views and subscriptions I'm seeing. Quality doesn't seem to be as much a driver. The young ones simply seem to do better, good or bad. Sex.... maybe. But, I think they are simply attracting their own demo, who are more accustom to the model. That and all the wannabe younger mid-aged dudes.


----------



## mbianka

sailvayu said:


> The channel owners can select whether to have ads on their videos or not. I agree I do not like it when there are ads and then ask for additional money. I understand google needs to make money for suppling a platform but if they are not going to share that revenue with the contributer then that is not fair either. Sadly this is not a perfect setup and has it's drawbacks for sure.
> 
> Maybe a good solution would be to have an ad free experience if you contribute but as far as I know there is no way to do that. In fact google is working at making it harder for creators to link to donation pages.


The ads usually have a few second timeout where you can skip them. The banner ads can be eliminated by clicking the X in the corner. IMO it's not that irritating. I do see some paltry revenue from my blog and videos but, nowhere near what Dylan and others are seeing. It's a steady job to keep those videos coming and I want to sail. But, as Dylan pointed out Google does some sneaky things. Use some music from their music library. Go ahead it's FREE! Fine print is if you do they take all of the revenue for them selves. Sneaky indeed!

As for your situation Capt. Wayne I would not waste too much of your time trying to make revenue from your videos. With your skill set along with others like Maine Sail I think a more lucrative option would be to use the videos to promote your services. Not everyone is willing to spend several hours halfway up the mast running cables. But, they would probably pay you to do it. The revenue you get from one job would probably equal several months or more of paltry of YT revenue.


----------



## Minnewaska

mbianka said:


> ..As for your situation Capt. Wayne I would not waste too much of your time trying to make revenue from your videos.


One could think of the vids as good marketing for the real service. That model works.

In fact, I've used some online supply place, right after I watched their supplied video on how-to use the product I was about to buy. They got paid for the vid, because I bought the paint, glue, whatever.


----------



## capecodda

Fun thread to read. Interesting and thought provoking. 

At least on the surface, it seems to me that although everything associated with boating is expensive, no one is making any money on anything from building boats, to services, to components.... Everyone is just holding on. These are life style businesses, where lifestyle trumps ROI.

Then look at intellectual property associated with the media business. Even professional mainstream artists are having trouble protecting their IP and getting paid for music, video, or the written word.

Then combine these 2 things, and start making sailing videos. My hat's off to anyone who can figure out how to thread these 2 needles simultaneously and make a buck.


----------



## miatapaul

Minnewaska said:


> One could think of the vids as good marketing for the real service. That model works.
> 
> In fact, I've used some online supply place, right after I watched their supplied video on how-to use the product I was about to buy. They got paid for the vid, because I bought the paint, glue, whatever.


Yes, look at Jamestown Distributors, they put up a ton of videos. Many of them excellent. I am looking to use there paint mostely because they post the how to videos.

I was surprised by listening to 59 North's podcast about money. He makes about $1,500 from donations since he put up a donate button. He does a thorough breakdown of the costs involved in his business plan. Very interesting listen/read if one is interested in trying to make money from sailing. A little off track of YouTube but similar, and the guy has really put a lot of effort into making his dream pay.

Money! ? 59 North, Ltd.


----------



## mbianka

Minnewaska said:


> One could think of the vids as good marketing for the real service. That model works.
> 
> In fact, I've used some online supply place, right after I watched their supplied video on how-to use the product I was about to buy. They got paid for the vid, because I bought the paint, glue, whatever.


Once saw a marketing major on YT explain the surprise he had when he looked at how traffic came to one of his websites (which was actually about becoming a security guard). He discovered most of his traffic came from You Tube videos not Google, Facebook etc...


----------



## mbianka

miatapaul said:


> Yes, look at Jamestown Distributors, they put up a ton of videos. Many of them excellent. I am looking to use there paint mostely because they post the how to videos.
> 
> I was surprised by listening to 59 North's podcast about money. He makes about $1,500 from donations since he put up a donate button. He does a thorough breakdown of the costs involved in his business plan. Very interesting listen/read if one is interested in trying to make money from sailing. A little off track of YouTube but similar, and the guy has really put a lot of effort into making his dream pay.
> 
> Money! ? 59 North, Ltd.


Very interesting though he is not exactly sitting back watching the money roll in. He's keeping a close eye on the books like a good businessman. Writing scripts and doing the podcast sure takes a bit of time. If he were doing videos on a regular basis that would also be an additional major time suck as has been pointed out. Still hats off to him for making it work. Including finding people who will pay for the privilege of getting seasick while helping to move his boat to various locations.


----------



## titustiger27

sailvayu said:


> The channel owners can select whether to have ads on their videos or not. I agree I do not like it when there are ads and then ask for additional money. I understand google needs to make money for suppling a platform but if they are not going to share that revenue with the contributer then that is not fair either. Sadly this is not a perfect setup and has it's drawbacks for sure.
> 
> Maybe a good solution would be to have an ad free experience if you contribute but as far as I know there is no way to do that. In fact google is working at making it harder for creators to link to donation pages.


I don't think Google/Youtube would give up that control...

On top of that, you give google your information so they can advertise you.. I get a lot of 'cruise the Caribbean' ads

In the end... cost me one way or another, vloggers don't make much and Google (who isn't suppose to do evil) makes a lot


----------



## gamayun

smackdaddy said:


> I'm not starting a fight. I'm giving my perspective...just like everyone else.


Are you guys being facetious or is this bantering for real? I had been thinking it was a just a cute inside-baseball, bro-love fest. So please reassure me that it is not a spat because I've been loving the responses from everyone on such a fascinating, yet completely alien subject. If there's bickering, I get distracted and might not come back


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## smackdaddy

I'm ALWAYS facetious. So don't worry, gama.


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## mstern

smackdaddy said:


> I'm ALWAYS facetious. So don't worry, gama.


True dat.

Hey Smack, what's with the new avatar? you go from Michael Douglas to what looks like Hunter S. Thompson; what gives? Enquiring minds want to know.


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## smackdaddy

I have a policy that I change my avatar every 7 years - come rain or shine.

Actually, the "Falling Down" avatar was more for my FightClub days. I'm over all that now. And anyway, I'm much more Hunter S. Thompson at heart - gonzo journalism on the boating world being my forte. 

"Fear and Loathing in Blue Water Boats" - you know.


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## titustiger27

smackdaddy said:


> I have a policy that I change my avatar every 7 years - come rain or shine.
> 
> Actually, the "Falling Down" avatar was more for my FightClub days. I'm over all that now. And anyway, I'm much more Hunter S. Thompson at heart - gonzo journalism on the boating world being my forte.
> 
> "Fear and Loathing in Blue Water Boats" - you know.


I'm pleased and disappointed all in one.

First disappointed in myself.. .I sort of thought your previous avatar might have been Mr. Smack.. partial because when I watched one of your videos and since your handsome sons had glasses.. well I'm an idiot... I didn't know this movie until now

But I do know Hunter..

Bravo. Would have loved to see Mr. Thompsons' youtube channel


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## smackdaddy

I'm thinking I need to embed myself at the next Annapolis Boat Show and expound in moving image the ominous and depraved machinations of well-heeled epoxy addicts and thruster merchants. If all goes well, I'll be able to convince the Catalina representative that his Hinckley counterpart has accused the former of being deeply inbred - thereby starting a bloody blue water brawl on the crowded docks.

Patreon be damned. It will go straight to CNN.


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## Shockwave

Now you're channeling a homophobic wife beater drug addict? Ok then...


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## Fantail

I run several YouTube channels. Hundreds of thousands of views and barely $100 every other month comes through. One would really need millions of views per video and a library of thousands of videos (think guys & gals with daily shows) to actually pay bills with adSense income.

One of my channels is restoring an old Japanese rotary car. I had what I though was an appropriate budget when I got started 3 years ago. I ran out of money pretty fast and now can only work on things as my day job income can compensate for. I've turned to Patreon recently as a platform for any of my followers to help out. Just one subscriber at the time of this post but hey, you can't get what you don't ask for. My 1st goal is to ditch ads so my viewers can watch without having to click them off or the skip button.

I DO pay for some Patreon creators, and yes, they happen to be Sailing creators. The ones I pay I am a big fan of and therefore look forward to watch their next shows the day it is available. Am also thrilled when there is additional content to see that is not necessarily part of their storyline - things the free YouTubers won't see (kind of like that bonus content of a BluRay with behind the scenes goodies). 

Here is why I pay and how I decide weather or not to support them.

Delos was the first sailing video I ever watched. It was episode 58 or something. Hot babe on the thumbnail came up when I had done a search for "time shifting" or something like that. I think the Delos title was "Time doesn't Matter". Clicked it, was captivated, and my interest in sailing was piqued. Went home and started a binge watch session with the wife of Delos starting with the beginning. We both really enjoyed the different characters, rotation of crew, beautiful scenery, explanations of how to do maintenance, and so forth. I haven't paid for cable TV in years and watch any content I'm after on the internet so YouTube is a no brainer there. I had no problem with supporting Delos as we really enjoyed how they blossomed into great storytellers. Being a filmmaker myself, I can totally relate to the work involved in production. While my wife would like to cancel support for Delos as lately, they seem to be much more about getting drunk and partying, we still currently pay $2 for Delos content.

Sailing LaVagabond is an awesome show. Elayna is the cutest thing ever and Riley is one handsome bloke. I'm brand new to sailing and so were they so that really caught our interest. Learning some dos and don'ts form people who picked it up the hard way is interesting to us. We don't mind contributing $5 to SLV.

Sailing Uma - I'm trying very hard to get rid of my couch. Once you are drowning in possessions it becomes very difficult to liquidate. I'd love to get rid of most of my things and live a cruising lifestyle. These kids did it right from the start - "Don't buy the couch". I love how skilled they are at things, being engineers and all, I'm sure they've watched a boat load (pun intended) of how to videos but I learn something new every time I watch their vids. Dan & Kika seem to have similar values as my wife and I. They give back to the community and strive to leave as small an environmental footprint as possible. BTW, Sailing Uma has sold themselves short in my opinion. They've offered a $1 option which MANY people have opted for (we pay $2). Sailing LaVagabond, on the other had has a minimum support of $5 per vid and their per video allotment is substantial. I think Uma should rethink their strategy. 

Sailing Vessel Prism is a show my wife likes the best. The couple's story and their interactions together are tops in my wife's opinion. The guy is more respectful of his girl than any of the other sailors we watch (except maybe Dan & Kika). It also really helps our interest that Prism is sailing in waters my wife and I will be sailing in soon. Excellent stuff. We pay $5 for Prism.

Someone mentioned White Spot Pirates. We do not support White Spot Pirates and it is mostly because it makes us both nervous in what she does and doesn't do. She's very insecure, not smart with many decisions, seemingly unprepared for the tasks before she ventures into them (whereas Dan & Kika have done a boatload of homework before they tackle a project). Hers seems an impulsive whim whereas others clearly plan and anticipate plans B, C, & D for obstacles that arise.

We also LOVE to watch Chase The Story but they haven't asked for money. Seems they are wealthy and got it handled.

Incidentally, For deciding who to pay - I don't care if the YouTuber has money for their project or not, if they've made great videos and got me hooked with great stories AND have asked...I will likely say yes and toss a couple bucks into the jar. Those who say "they don't need money" should ask themselves if they've ever been to a movie theater EVER. Disney has a BOAT load of money and I still paid to go see Star Wars. What movie did you see last in a theater? I bet the studio involved had plenty of money to start with.


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## Argyle38

Minnewaska said:


> I have no problem with the tip jar concept, I just can't as easily get my head around who to pay. There is so much content, you can't pay them all. Once it becomes a product and not just a conversation at the bar, my expectation for quality goes way up.


I think that's your answer right there. The ones that do rise up to the quality you expect, you might consider throwing them a few bucks. Just watch vids of the rest as long as they are free. If those one disappear then who cares, their quality wasn't that good to start with. If they are pretty good, give them a like and subscribe. Still helps them get other views (through ranking). There's no pressure.

I look at it just like street performers. Most of them you just walk by. Even if I like what they are doing, I never feel obligated to contribute. I'm not too far from NYC so I spend some days there sometimes. Plenty of street performers, most are actually pretty good. Typically I just walk by. Once in Central Park, there was a quartet of violins playing. They were beyond amazing. Probably Julliard students. Just stood there and listened for a while. Ended up giving them $5 or $10. That was quality. Simple as that.


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## gamayun

Fantail said:


> Incidentally, For deciding who to pay - I don't care if the YouTuber has money for their project or not, if they've made great videos and got me hooked with great stories AND have asked...I will likely say yes and toss a couple bucks into the jar. Those who say "they don't need money" should ask themselves if they've ever been to a movie theater EVER. Disney has a BOAT load of money and I still paid to go see Star Wars. What movie did you see last in a theater? I bet the studio involved had plenty of money to start with.


Welcome to SN, Fantail! A local, too, I see  This statement of yours hit a cord with me, so I hope you'll bear with me and not get offended that it sounds like you're a young(ish) guy. My son (early 30s himself) has this same philosophy. I think those of us in the next higher generation, and even more so two generations removed from yours, don't look upon an open hand in quite the same way. We often consider it a character deficiency. This might be the missing link in the conversation so far -- it's just a generational thing. Those of us who are older are conflicted because we question the motivation and purpose ("Why don't they just get a real job like I had to at that age?"); while those who are younger see it as a normal part of their entertainment costs.


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## Fantail

Thanks for the welcome gamayun. I loved your first post on this thread and agreed completely. I did notice we were near each other (I'm in Redwood City).

I've got a 29 year old myself. I also have a full time day job or "career" as some would call it. People like SV Delos started on their own nickel, cruised until the money ran out, went back to work, saved, then returned to the boat. Discovering Patreon as a possible aid occurred much later. That's kind of what I've done with my car restoration. When I have surplus funds, I get parts, tools, plating, etc. And I just love documenting it with film and editing is a hoot. It brings me joy to work the car, and equal joy to share my ups and downs with other car enthusiasts. Its not easy for me (or perhaps my generation) to ask for money. But the need is there, so I strapped on some courage, and did it.

Others like Sailing Uma asked from day one. I don't begrudge them for their different circumstances. They still make outstanding vids and have good storytelling. "I'll buy that for a dollar!"


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## dylanwinter1

Holding out the tin cup does cut across the grain a little - I turned 60 last week.

I have been a journalist for 90 per cent of my working life.

Initially it was on an agricultural machinery magazine payed for by the adverts

then to Farmers Weekly - paid for by the cover price and the adverts

then to the BBC paid for by a hypothecated tax (license fee).

Now I make films about my life long passion which is sailing.

Initially the films were behind a paywall - people payed $4.99 a quarter to access all the films

for a while I had 1,000 old blokes coughing up

but bandwidth was low and streaming rare.

The demand for the DVDs started to pick up - which allowed me to replace the 18 footer when the inboard went zip.

Then the DVD sales died so out came the tin cup.

I get a few comments from people questioning why they should pay for my sailing

although what they are doing is paying for my film-making skills (such as they are).

Some of the blokes, apparently find the the films, watch a couple of hundred and then suddenly find the ones with the nag on the front pointing out that the films have been paid for by old sailors just like themselves - and they get a bit angry at me for pointing it out.

However, my offspring are now early 20s and this is the world they have grown up in

you get stuff for free and then you give if you wish

how many of us using Firefox to browse this forum. For some reason windows ten is being given away free.

In the past when words and pictures were spattered onto wood pulp or films had to be magnetised onto VHS taper or burned onto DVDs there was a physical production and transport side to distributing words and images

now they flow like water across the world - the cost of distribution per gigabyte is almost zero.

We now pay to not have the adverts on spotify or use an ad blocker on google.

I cannot really see any alternative to asking for money - either people give it or the project dies.

In my own circumstances without the donations I would sail a lot less and make no films. My boat would have been moved to the closest sailable river and I would have idled my closing years away just pootling around.

My guess is that the two million sailing youtube hits and the 12,000 youtube subscribers mean that the work is appreciated in some way

if one in 20 or one in 100 is motivated to encourage me to keep going in the new way by sending paypal taps then that is marvelous

as to those who choose not to pay but to continue watching the films as I make them......

well it has not cost me anything to get it to them. the films are still there after they have watched them.

What amazes me is the people who get angry about being given the opportunity to chip in to a project they have obviously enjoyed in some way.

The ones who take the buscuit are the ones who send me a 200 word rant about they are not going to pay because they can't afford it and there in their avatar is a 30 footer.

Do I pay for free things on the web?

I give Mozilla money and Wiki.

I do not chip in to any of the eight or ten other video cruisers out there because it is not my sort of sailing - clear warm water, scuba diving, big boats.

but if a bloke started making decent films about the North American coast, the chesapeake and PNW and told me a bit about the history, showed me some boats and tried to keep the wind noise off his films then I would give him money to encourage him to make more films and keep going.

I have never done a project like this before.

When I started I was doing it just for me. Eight years ago I had a 20 week a year contract with the BBC - that was enough to fund what at the time was a personal indulgence to sail around my own island.

Three weeks after the start of the journey I got one of those calls from the boss man at the BBC telling me that the contract would not be renewed - I was 52 and I sobbed a little sitting in the cockpit. But I have been a freelance for 30 years and bosses are like busses - another will be along soon.

Now I have 1000 bosses -old blokes who tap me money. When I am sailing I often imagine 1000 old small boat sailors offering critiques of the way my sails are set or mumbling that I am going the wrong side of a buoy

imaybe even expressing disgust at the latest recipe from the KTL school of nautical cuisine.

the old blokes send me pictures of their boats - which I love seeing in my inbox.

best of all I am sometimes sitting in the cockpit and some old fellah will come walking down the pontoon and proffer a bottle of cheap scotch.

This year I aim to get a drone for occasional use.

the boat is currently in Mylor in Falmouth

https://www.mylor.com/webcams-2/

a few of the blokes watch me rig and head out and I try to sail around in front of the cameras for a bit

I assume that fairly soon I will have a web cam on a stick on the back of the boat and they will be able to watch an ugly old bloke sail a **** boat up a muddy river with a real natuical history.

One bloke said that the films are the next best thing to sailing - and I will go with that.l

- so if some ice bound canuck on his excercise bike is minded to bung me $5 every time I make him forget he is on his excercise bike then fekkingoodonim!

Is that any worse than paying to watch a DVD or paying for a magazine before you buy it?

so if any of you are MOB tappers - thanks boys

if any of you have watched 200 or 300 of my films and still not tapped in - well no harm done

D

PS - therm MOB stands for mainly old blokes. Youtube tells me that 97 per cent of the people who watch the films are men - most are aged between 50 and 70. Over half are in North America. One of the blokes in a comment on the website used the term Mainly Old Blokes and they started self identifying as MOBs.


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## Uricanejack

You are welcome, I enjoy and tap when I down load, can't be bothered with hot babes and coral reefs,

Who knows, I might just try and film a bit of the PNW. I will be going sailing anyway. So far lots of wind noise and not very steady. If you are lucky I might even play my own music, several renditions of the Skye boat song. With a few mistakes her and there. Its one of only two tunes I know. 
Hope you Keep Turning Left.
Or will you be going right to get from Falmouth to Skye?
Enjoy the trip, looking forward to the Film,


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## dylanwinter1

Uricanejack said:


> You are welcome, I enjoy and tap when I down load, can't be bothered with hot babes and coral reefs,
> 
> Who knows, I might just try and film a bit of the PNW. I will be going sailing anyway. So far lots of wind noise and not very steady. If you are lucky I might even play my own music, several renditions of the Skye boat song. With a few mistakes her and there. Its one of only two tunes I know.
> Hope you Keep Turning Left.
> Or will you be going right to get from Falmouth to Skye?
> Enjoy the trip, looking forward to the Film,


bless all MOBs everywhere

my plan is stay around the Fal until the days get a bit longer - say mid may - and then get two other MOBs and sail straight to Plockton up the Irish sea without stopping

it took is six days and nights to do the 500 miles from Isle of Wight to Anstruther and was great fun

so the idea is to do the same thing


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## wallster

smackdaddy said:


> I have a policy that I change my avatar every 7 years - come rain or shine.
> 
> Actually, the "Falling Down" avatar was more for my FightClub days. I'm over all that now. And anyway, I'm much more Hunter S. Thompson at heart - gonzo journalism on the boating world being my forte.
> 
> "Fear and Loathing in Blue Water Boats" - you know.


I didn't know your first avatar was from a movie either. I looked it up on IMDB thogh and it seems like it is maybe similar to God Bless America? God Bless America (2011) - IMDb


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## Minnewaska

Great points all around. As I've said, I have put money into a few pots, but the field is growing every day. I followed my routine last night. Not by a long shot were all the vids I watched about sailing, in fact. Maybe half-ish. So the filter goes far beyond any one interest, let alone individual ask. 

Fantail above seems to be giving a few bucks to several sailing vids. Do you watch anything else? What's your monthly avg budget for paying to watch vids? Ironically, I find most of the vids you referenced, while certainly among the most popular, not to be all that good. The cute ladies excepted. Worse, I will occasionally find one riddled with misinformation or bad advice, even dangerous examples the producers seems oblivious toward. I suppose that happens in mainstream media too. 

I wonder what the liability for bad advice or examples will be, when you take money for the vid????? They did ask to be paid and I haven't seen a disclaimer yet, not that I think one would matter much.

I suppose it stands to reason that the channels with fewer subscribers seem more likely to ask for a few bucks. Even some of the most popular cruising channels have well less than 100,00 subscribers. Some of my other subscriptions, which have millions of subscribers, never ask. I guess, if you have a large following, you don't have to? But, why don't they, if it works? I haven't met many that have said I have enough money.........


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## mbianka

smackdaddy said:


> I have a policy that I change my avatar every 7 years - come rain or shine.
> 
> Actually, the "Falling Down" avatar was more for my FightClub days. I'm over all that now. And anyway, I'm much more Hunter S. Thompson at heart - gonzo journalism on the boating world being my forte.
> 
> "Fear and Loathing in Blue Water Boats" - you know.


I like it. Since I will spending some time in the three Virgins soon. Your Avatar reminded me I need to pull out my copy of Thompson's Rum Diaries based on his time working on a newspaper in the area. Great book but, Johnny Depp made a real sucky movie from it.


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## mbianka

titustiger27 said:


> I don't think Google/Youtube would give up that control...
> 
> On top of that, you give google your information so they can advertise you.. I get a lot of 'cruise the Caribbean' ads
> 
> In the end... cost me one way or another, vloggers don't make much and Google (who isn't suppose to do evil) makes a lot


Actually GOOGLE has dropped the "don't do evil" as there corporate motto.  I agree it certainly would be nice if they shared the revenue a bit more. But, they do make it easy for anyone to get their videos out there on the Internet. Even the big Networks are hurting from the competition as the pie gets split up. Though producing content is still work. Like in past employment I've found the more you work the more money comes your way along the digital highway. The question is how much do you want to work and how much do you want to sail? Having worked in the broadcast biz and as Dylan points out that half hour video takes much longer to put together. Even some of the more successful content providers are probably earning under the minimum wage for their efforts. If they have Pateron sponsors they need to keep working and put out content to keep the revenue coming. At some point it turns into a job!  Who wants that!


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## titustiger27

mbianka said:


> Actually GOOGLE has dropped the "don't do evil" as there corporate motto.  I agree it certainly would be nice if they shared the revenue a bit more. But, they do make it easy for anyone to get their videos out there on the Internet. Even the big Networks are hurting from the competition as the pie gets split up. Though producing content is still work. Like in past employment I've found the more you work the more money comes your way along the digital highway. The question is how much do you want to work and how much do you want to sail? Having worked in the broadcast biz and as Dylan points out that half hour video takes much longer to put together. Even some of the more successful content providers are probably earning under the minimum wage for their efforts. If they have Pateron sponsors they need to keep working and put out content to keep the revenue coming. At some point it turns into a job!  Who wants that!


When I was young, my dad (who was in construction) would take me out in his truck on the weekend -- to check on jobs. He would point out different jobs he had done.
I would think : "so.. that is what you do"

Now, having worked in several careers and jobs, the ones I have enjoyed, are ones you have an end product you can look at from time to time and say : I did that.

I've made little videos and I know it is time consuming and at some point you think, 'jeez I've listened to that song 100 times trying to sync it up...

In the end, I really feel most of the good vlogs, the people would probably do them if they only had 10 subscribers and 27 views.


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## mbianka

_Now, having worked in several careers and jobs, the ones I have enjoyed, are ones you have an end product you can look at from time to time and say : I did that._

Very true. I was involved in a number of major projects in my full time work career including building TV studio's from scratch in the early 1990's. For a number of years I could walk past one and relive those times. It was fun and financial pleasure. They rebuilt it a few years ago and now I don't recognize it. A reminder that nothing lasts forever. Probably not even You Tube videos.  I'm entering my first full year of real retirement since like Dylan the freelance work I was doing has dried up. So this winter I've been getting rid of "stuff" around the house no longer needed. Including 4 inch binders of Service Manuals for Sony Broadcast cameras full of schematics and the notes I transcribed into them. The cameras became obsolete much faster than the tube ones that were around when I started . All that knowledge no longer needed. So I make them useful one more time by burning them in the fireplace and take comfort in the warmth they produce. 

_"In the end, I really feel most of the good vlogs, the people would probably do them if they only had 10 subscribers and 27 views. "_

Indeed but, it's a fine line between loving to do it and having to do it. I got my Captain's license thinking of doing some chartering with my boat. Sounded good being able to deduct some of those boat expenses and doing something I love i.e. sailing. I then started to do a business plan looking at some of the expenses and variables like season, weather, number of trips etc... In the end I decided that having the freedom to sail when and where I wanted without a schedule was worth more than the potential benefits and revenue of chartering. Likewise making videos to help pay for ones cruising kitty sounds kind of seductive at first. But, having to make them on a schedule to satisfy the subscribers/paterons could turn the love into drudgery if one becomes to addicted to the revenue.


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## titustiger27

SailNet Community - View Profile: mbianka

I wonder if some, and probably should, do the vlog so they have a way to deduct the cost of running about.. so they don't care if they make money... just trying not to lose so much


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## Fantail

Minnewaska said:


> ...Fantail above seems to be giving a few bucks to several sailing vids. Do you watch anything else? What's your monthly avg budget for paying to watch vids? Ironically, I find most of the vids you referenced, while certainly among the most popular, not to be all that good. The cute ladies excepted. Worse, I will occasionally find one riddled with misinformation or bad advice, even dangerous examples the producers seems oblivious toward. I suppose that happens in mainstream media too.
> 
> I wonder what the liability for bad advice or examples will be, when you take money for the vid????? They did ask to be paid and I haven't seen a disclaimer yet, not that I think one would matter much.
> 
> I suppose it stands to reason that the channels with fewer subscribers seem more likely to ask for a few bucks. Even some of the most popular cruising channels have well less than 100,00 subscribers. Some of my other subscriptions, which have millions of subscribers, never ask. I guess, if you have a large following, you don't have to? But, why don't they, if it works? I haven't met many that have said I have enough money.........


I do watch many other things. I've only recently been hooked on sailing. Before August/Sept my primary interests were auto repair/resto vids (Rob Dahm, Aaron Cake for example), John Oliver (an HBO production), Philip DeFranco (a Discover production), comedy by small names like David So but big names too like Louis CK or Russell Peters, and I'm all over music vids by a couple faves 311 or Walk Off The Earth. WOTE, BTW, has a Patreon account but I haven't pitched in on that yet. I probably won't as I go see them live when they come about and I'm content supporting them in that manner - plus I buy their CDs when they come out. Another thing I really enjoy is perusing the "Popular On YouTube" list. Lots of funny, cute, informative, etc stuff pops up there.

Sadly, it is very American of you to wonder about liability of bad advice. People don't take responsibility for their own actions and sue because of it. I'll not travel that road any further though so here's the stop sign on that one.

I may not have worded my statement well about having enough money. What I meant was people base their decision to give or not based on their own perception of weather or not the creators "need" money should realize they cough up huge funds all the time for creators that are filthy rich (like movie studios). That's why I used the movie theater example as those studios clearly have wealth.

I had never heard of Keep Turning Left until this thread. I just had a quick peek. There is clearly some great filmmaking going on there. I'm more of a tropical guy though. I got cold just watching 6 mins of KTL. I dream of being in 80-90 degree F weather with barely a board short. As a new sailor I will have more in depth look at KTL for if any instructional vids are there - - I need that regardless of the weather or temp LOL.

Carry on mates...


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## CharlzO

Without having read every post, I personally follow a dozen sailing blogs, everything from people rebuilding their boat to start their journey, to those in between, and to those that are already out doing so. And while I do agree with the post that there are many that haven't outlined where they made their money initially to go into their video venturing, I know there are a few that actually have. Some of them are quite open about having to take time to return to work to support their dream. But as with anything, I do see that the ones who already had plenty of money, have more money to make videos that are far more production than someone starting out with a handheld camera and that's it. But I find that in the grand scheme, each of those options has something for me to enjoy or envy. I do get a little turned off by videos or series where it seems blatant with "I have so much money, look at the fun I have". 

For donations, I have donated to only a few. I don't donate to people that come off as begging, or expectant. When I do, it's because I feel that they have provided me with either something that I was grateful for (for example, a series about repairs and techniques that is very well put together for someone like myself to understand and learn from, something akin to an online video course that I felt worth donating to), or it's to someone(s) who I felt I wanted to help them genuinely, even if it's as simple as $20 here or there. 

That said, when I start cruising, I will likely have a similar mindset as many out there, make more little videos and let anyone else decide if they like seeing them. I make them for myself, family, friends, and the few people that might want to ses for whatever reason. If they choose to donate, that's great. But I know that I don't want to get caught where I'm relying on the world to support MY dream with me doing little to contribute to my own cause. If something happens and all that ends, then what? Not relying on others is what keeps people humble and real. There are exceptions of course, but in general.


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## goat

Fantail said:


> I had never heard of Keep Turning Left until this thread. I just had a quick peek. There is clearly some great filmmaking going on there. I'm more of a tropical guy though. I got cold just watching 6 mins of KTL. I dream of being in 80-90 degree F weather with barely a board short. As a new sailor I will have more in depth look at KTL for if any instructional vids are there - - I need that regardless of the weather or temp LOL.
> 
> Carry on mates...


My favourite Dylan Winter Video;






Is it any wonder guys named Winter and Eisberg sail(ed) in the North?

goat (on a exercise bike in Canada)


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## dylanwinter1

from fantail

I had never heard of Keep Turning Left until this thread. I just had a quick peek. There is clearly some great filmmaking going on there. I'm more of a tropical guy though. I got cold just watching 6 mins of KTL. I dream of being in 80-90 degree F weather with barely a board short. As a new sailor I will have more in depth look at KTL for if any instructional vids are there - - I need that regardless of the weather or temp LOL.

Carry on mates...

haha

I have never sailed in warm water - never been to the med.

I am(or was) a red headed celt and am very cold tolerant.

Give me a cold night with two sleeping bags and a woolly hat rather than a night sweating buckets in a hot cabin any day

slathering suntan crea, over me sun senitive skin is not for me

I love an empty anchorage so the cold suits me






I also love the history of our estuaries and rivers - I rode the tide up the Ouse in Yorkshire riding the tide 60 miles inland - drifting my double ender up the river using the tides and currents used by the vikings - I took my little yacht up a canal dug by the romsn

this was a recent drift up a scottish river






as for dreaming about sailing in the future

better to be sailing the boat you can afford now rather than dreaming of the boat you think you want because the chances are that the boat you can afford now is the one that is best for you. If I am away from my boat then I get the old sailing canoe out of the shed, stick it on the roof of the car and off I go

I guess I have the sailing thing worse than most


----------



## Minnewaska

Fantail said:


> .....What I meant was people base their decision to give or not based on their own perception of weather or not the creators "need" money should realize they cough up huge funds all the time for creators that are filthy rich (like movie studios).......


Again, thanks for the perspective.

This was the only one I didn't quite follow.

To me, the movie studios are analogous to YouTube itself. The movie actors analogous to the video channels.

The movie studios pay their actors. We pay to go to the movie, or we generate advertising revenue by watching them on TV, which compensates the studio.

In YouTube's case, they also make money on the advertising and they do "pay" the actors with a piece of it.

Of course, the pay scales are hugely different, but I think that's based on two factors. First is supply. There are a limited number of movies compared to literally tens of thousand youtube options. Second, quality. No doubt the movies studios are a better product 99% of the time. I'll leave room for an exception.

But, why don't the movie actors ask us directly for more, like YouTube channels, if it isn't about how much they already made. If it is about how much the actor has already made, then should we know what the YouTube channel producer is making? I gave my example earlier of a fella playing totally destitute, who was actually quite rich.

((As for the liability thing, no one hates the tort system more than I. But, when you show someone how to do something and solicit money for it, any reasonable person would expect there to be some minimum standard of care. Certainly not, if you didn't pay for it. I see bad advice and examples on YouTube almost daily))


----------



## gamayun

Well, now I'm ruined by all you MOBs (who knew?!). Before this thread, I had only subscribed to Christian Williams because some friends had met him in Hawaii, and I completely related to his funny comments about his onboard book collection (



). Now I will have no time for boat projects because I'm going to be binge watching YouTube videos on sailing!! There goes all my money, too


----------



## smackdaddy

wallster said:


> I didn't know your first avatar was from a movie either. I looked it up on IMDB thogh and it seems like it is maybe similar to God Bless America? God Bless America (2011) - IMDb


Not quite. The movie was "Falling Down". It was about a crazed, engineer turned vigilante. He only went after the bad dudes. He never shot a teddy bear.

HST is much more together, incisive and cerebral (Shockwave notwithstanding - NTTAWWT).


----------



## Sea&Stars

I'm grateful to the Vloggers out there who are producing some compelling content. I've not contributed to any of them but I understand the desire to have an internet based cash flow.

Being a recent participant in the Youtube Vlogging phenomenon I've come to realize that if you want to make money through Google...err.. Alphabet, you have to invest in the stock.

After six months I've managed to get 29 subscribers, most of which I personally know and strongly suggested they do so, that is if they wanted to see how the boat was coming along. I've gone ahead and monetized what I've uploaded in the thinnest hope that I'll see some remuneration. Alas, I'm still trying to find my niche, a friend suggested it was like MacGyver meets Kraftwerk... ugh. I've enjoyed playing around with the software and making due with common equipment so I'm getting something out of it. The Boat has every imaginable flaw and the channel is sort of a way of throwing my hat on a wall forcing me to get it back to sailing. Check it out and at least subscribe.
Each episode has an original tune I've produced. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq96vjM-5UnMXpn3mE9PzKlnZH4o6z94J


----------



## Minnewaska

So, last night, I'm out to dinner with friends and we strike up a conversation over last summer's cruise to Maine. They ask a ton of questions about our overnight double handed passage, the islands we visited, I tell them about connecting with an old friend I haven't seen in 30 years, etc. I even have pics on my cell phone that I pull out to show them. 

I'm hugely entertaining....... 

Should I have asked for a couple of bucks?


----------



## dylanwinter1

Minnewaska said:


> So, last night, I'm out to dinner with friends and we strike up a conversation over last summer's cruise to Maine. They ask a ton of questions about our overnight double handed passage, the islands we visited, I tell them about connecting with an old friend I haven't seen in 30 years, etc. I even have pics on my cell phone that I pull out to show them.
> 
> I'm hugely entertaining.......
> 
> Should I have asked for a couple of bucks?


I hope they were fellow sailors otherwise you might have started to see that blank expression in their faces I get when I start off on sailing to non sailors. Then I get a sharp kick under the table from SWMBO. Much safer to talk about cars,politics or religion to non sailors.

on the payment side - spend three days making a 30 minute film using around £3,000 worth of gear and you might get a 1 in 20 or 1 in 50 chance of getting a few dollars from me. Although you would probably need to put up a few more films for me to watch before I decided. Maybe after I have seen ten films. Call it 30 days work

D

ps - who was paying the bill for the food?


----------



## Minnewaska

dylanwinter1 said:


> I hope they were fellow sailors otherwise you might have started to see that blank expression in their faces I get when I start off on sailing to non sailors. Then I get a sharp kick under the table from SWMBO. Much safer to talk about cars,politics or religion to non sailors.
> 
> on the payment side - spend three days making a 30 minute film using around £3,000 worth of gear and you might get a 1 in 20 or 1 in 50 chance of getting a few dollars from me. Although you would probably need to put up a few more films for me to watch before I decided. Maybe after I have seen ten films. Call it 30 days work
> 
> D
> 
> ps - who was paying the bill for the food?


The question was a little tongue in cheek, but I still see something to it.

I'm not sure agree that the value to the consumer has anything to do with how much time or equipment it takes to produce the product. That's just a question of whether or not the endeavor is commercially viable. There are many products that never make it to market, simply because the consumer won't pay enough for them. Make them faster and less expensively and they work, but the price the consumer is willing to pay doesn't change.

I understand that most of these vid productions are not fully commercially viable.

I'm thinking that we all share stories all the time. We pay for some and not for others, but I'm fascinated by why.

p.s. We split the tab.


----------



## dylanwinter1

Minnewaska said:


> The question was a little tongue in cheek, but I still see something to it.
> 
> I'm not sure agree that the value to the consumer has anything to do with how much time or equipment it takes to produce the product. That's just a question of whether or not the endeavor is commercially viable. There are many products that never make it to market, simply because the consumer won't pay enough for them. Make them faster and less expensively and they work, but the price the consumer is willing to pay doesn't change.
> 
> I understand that most of these vid productions are not fully commercially viable.
> 
> I'm thinking that we all share stories all the time. We pay for some and not for others, but I'm fascinated by why.
> 
> p.s. We split the tab.


I think you make some excellent points and I agree - but the gear and the time involved in creating a narrative has an impact on the quality of the end product.

You are unlikely to produce anything anyone will pay for if you do a wobbly squirt on a mobile phone with wind noise all over it.

it does amaze me that on youtube I can stick up a 30 second film of a tractor going across a steep slope and get 1 million hits -






(google pocketed the $1500 I would have been due for the tractor had I not been chucked out of adsense).

Then put up a well crafted sailing narrative and get 10,000 hits






however, I am more likely to get an occasional tap of gratitude if people can see you have taken some time over it and that it has some sort of story and shape to it.

The postman arrived this morning and he brought a letter from a bloke in London saying that he had downloaded and watched the films as far as the Humber (maybe 200 of them) and was looking forward to watching the rest. The letter had a cheque for £50 attached to it.

"warm feeling inside"


----------



## Minnewaska

dylanwinter1 said:


> ....You are unlikely to produce anything anyone will pay for if you do a wobbly squirt on a mobile phone with wind noise all over it.


It seems the gopro is a common tool and wind noise is horribly ubiquitous in cruising vids. They had to notice in editing, but put it in anyway, since they wanted whatever they were saying in the thread and have no alt footage.

You are right, wind noise is terrible. Although, some of the crusing kids, with huge numbers of subscriptions and views, have it all the time.



> it does amaze me that on youtube I can stick up a 30 second film of a tractor going across a steep slope and get 1 million hits


There are a lot more people on tractors than sailboats.



> ...however, I am more likely to get an occasional tap of gratitude if people can see you have taken some time over it and that it has some sort of story and shape to it.
> 
> The postman arrived this morning and he brought a letter from a bloke in London saying that he had downloaded and watched the films as far as the Humber (maybe 200 of them) and was looking forward to watching the rest. The letter had a cheque for £50 attached to it.
> 
> "warm feeling inside"


Well done mate. That's nice. It does seem like the concept of these vids is settling in closer to a gratuity than the sale of a product.

Still, I wasn't tipped for my story at dinner and it took two weeks and a ton of money to accumulate too.


----------



## mbianka

Minnewaska said:


> So, last night, I'm out to dinner with friends and we strike up a conversation over last summer's cruise to Maine. They ask a ton of questions about our overnight double handed passage, the islands we visited, I tell them about connecting with an old friend I haven't seen in 30 years, etc. I even have pics on my cell phone that I pull out to show them.
> 
> I'm hugely entertaining.......
> 
> Should I have asked for a couple of bucks?


If they were that entertained they should have at least bought you a beer. Five bucks here and there is not going to break most people. People spend a lot more than that in bars (and on Hollywood crap) and don't get to watch the highs and lows of cruising nice and cozy on a winters night. 
What's nice about crowdfunding is no one puts a gun to your head and say pay up or else. I've thrown a few bucks to Dylan though I have not watched more than a dozen of his adventures. But, they are done well and I appreciate the effort. Drake Paragon's Real Cruising Life is another I've been following for years. I like that he shows and discusses the decisions he has made and also some of the mistakes he has made. One can learn a lot from the mistakes others even if it is to be reminded don't ever do that! So he gets a few bucks from me. Wicked Salty is another subscription of mine. I liked to watch these young folks start out from scratch and make their way down to the Bahamas mistakes and all and living a no frills adventure and having a good time. I've also watched a few Delos vids the eye candy is nice but, they are having too good of a time IMO.


----------



## kwaltersmi

I watch plenty and support a few. It's better than most of the crap on TV and is real reality TV, for better and worse. A few of my favorites lately have been:

Sailing Vessel Prism 
Sailing La Vagabonde
s/v Catchin' Rays


----------



## pcmm

kwaltersmi said:


> I watch plenty and support a few. It's better than most of the crap on TV and is real reality TV, for better and worse. A few of my favorites lately have been:
> 
> Sailing Vessel Prism
> Sailing La Vagabonde
> s/v Catchin' Rays


Ironically those (for me) are the 3 most blatant about pushing the whole patreon thing. LaVagabonde (If you look on Patreon) could be making up to $10k a month if they keep up with 3 vid's per month on average! that's a lot of coin!

In fairness really do like Paragon and "White spot Pirates". I think Nike really has some fortitude for going through what she did to get her boat up and running. Drake just has interesting videos in a very relaxed style. Delos though does some fantastic work putting out what really is broadcast quality videos and they really don't push the Patreon thing at all.


----------



## Minnewaska

mbianka said:


> If they were that entertained they should have at least bought you a beer. Five bucks here and there is not going to break most people.......


Of course, I wasn't expecting them to, this is just an interesting similarity.

The analogy to YouTube/Patreon, however, is whether I should have asked them to consider buying me a beer, when the story was over.

Obviously, I don't think anyone would actually ask in this circumstance of telling a story in a restaurant (and I've realized the story took both time and money for me to accumulate). But we do on the internet. Interesting.


----------



## dylanwinter1

This is really interesting

thanks for your honesty chaps

one of the reasons for doing the films is to earn money

not for the mortgage because that is paid but for the petrol, the moorings, the worn out gear.

since I have given the films away if I want the money for the next lot of films to be made I have to create what the web boffs describe as a call to action

in other words if you don't ask for money then it will not occur to anyone to give it to you

mozilla, wiki, spotify - they all have to create an effective call to action otherwise they will die

not everyone has to pay - just enough of them to keep the show on the road

so you have to ask

it is called a call to action

Call-to-Action Best Practices










however, if you ask too hard then people get annoyed

of course it is okay annoying those who will never contribute

but you do not want to upset the borderlines

so the dinner anecdote is interesting

you are not asking people to pay for the anecdote they have just heard but asking for money to encourage you to come up with another one just as good

as an old hack I have spent the past 40 years expecting people to buy my stuff blind

they have not seen what they are buying other than a trailer or a front cover

the dynamic is completely different here

I still find it a bit uncomfortable and I preferred sending out DVDs or writing books for money or contributing to magazines

but the world has changed

it is certain that having a good figure and boobs makes selling sailing films to blokes easier

but then sex has always sold and I would rather look at my wife than stare at myself in the mirror

however, wit and good sense sells as well

This will be an interesting winter for my project

make or break for the films

will enough blokes hit the paypal button after watching films about Orkney and Shetland to finance the making of the films about the outer hebrides and Skye

of course, you have to ask what the bloke who hits the paypal button is getting for his $5

a warm feeling inside - akin to giving money for charity or to a political party perhaps

a sense of fairness - I have entertained them for 30 hours - they would pay for that at Netflix - why not your favourite well made sailing blog

I would buy a drink for a good racnontuer - I would invite him for a drink on board if I knew he was a good talker and racontuer - if he bores me then he is not going to be asked on my boat to drink my whisky

most interesting

D


----------



## mbianka

Minnewaska said:


> Of course, I wasn't expecting them to, this is just an interesting similarity.
> 
> The analogy to YouTube/Patreon, however, is whether I should have asked them to consider buying me a beer, when the story was over.
> 
> Obviously, I don't think anyone would actually ask in this circumstance of telling a story in a restaurant (and I've realized the story took both time and money for me to accumulate). But we do on the internet. Interesting.


Yeah I can see your point. Though I think You Tube video content providers asking for contributions are more like musicians aka "entertainers" passing the hat after a performance. Those using Pateron are asking us to be modern day penny Medici's helping them with expenses so they can keep sailing and creating content instead of stopping and finding a land job as some cruisers do when the kitty runs low. I don't have a problem with either model. Since putting those videos together is still work IMO.


----------



## sailvayu

Ok let's take a bit of a different tack on this subject. Most of these videos have no ads in the video it's self. Some have them at the beginning and you click past it after 3sec and some have little boxes that come up you can close. (and google gets almost all the income from that) So how would you feel about ads like you get in a TV show, a 15-20 second spot that plays during the vid that you cannot click past. Would this put the viewer off and make them close it or would this be acceptable to the viewer? If the viewers want quality videos the producers have to be paid for somehow. Producing a decent video costs money and time nobody is going to keep doing it for free. What as a viewer do you think is the best way to help fund this?


----------



## Sea&Stars

I've seen where really high view count vids start with a short commercial that you can't click past. No big deal, I'm always multitasking anyway, so I just go to another tab or application that's running in the background, wait till I hear that familiar opening riff and go back to the video i clicked on. I'm not a fan of long intros either. Some of them are predictable and I'll just move the bar to the right, where the meat of the content will display. For long outros and credits I usually exit the view and move on. Lets face it we're being conditioned to have short attention spans and whatever doesn't just grab us by the lapels is at risk of being ignored.


----------



## mbianka

sailvayu said:


> Ok let's take a bit of a different tack on this subject. Most of these videos have no ads in the video it's self. Some have them at the beginning and you click past it after 3sec and some have little boxes that come up you can close. (and google gets almost all the income from that) So how would you feel about ads like you get in a TV show, a 15-20 second spot that plays during the vid that you cannot click past. Would this put the viewer off and make them close it or would this be acceptable to the viewer? If the viewers want quality videos the producers have to be paid for somehow. Producing a decent video costs money and time nobody is going to keep doing it for free. What as a viewer do you think is the best way to help fund this?


Having grown up BYT (before You Tube) i could live with a quick spot or two. But, I'm not sure the younger generation would put up with the idea after having grown use to scrolling through videos and clicking off ads. Perhaps one could play it both ways. Video with commercial spots are free. Paterons can see the videos without commercials. Of course you still have to have content that attracts enough eyeballs for advertisers to want to pay you. Google Adsense has this data might be more work to do it on your own or pay an outfit for the data. Then you have to try and line up advertisers which is more work. Then edit in their spots. The good thing is Google does all this already but, they take a hefty cut doing it.


----------



## dylanwinter1

mbianka said:


> Having grown up BYT (before You Tube) i could live with a quick spot or two. But, I'm not sure the younger generation would put up with the idea after having grown use to scrolling through videos and clicking off ads. Perhaps one could play it both ways. Video with commercial spots are free. Paterons can see the videos without commercials. Of course you still have to have content that attracts enough eyeballs for advertisers to want to pay you. Google Adsense has this data might be more work to do it on your own or pay an outfit for the data. Then you have to try and line up advertisers which is more work. Then edit in their spots. The good thing is Google does all this already but, they take a hefty cut doing it.


That is dead right -

the problem with sailing films is that unless they contain tits and bums then the audience will never be big enough to attract the general advertisers.

Although I have had 30 million hits on tractor films my sailing films have had 2 million hits

an average hit for my sailing films is probably around 10,000 a year per film

not enough for Ford cars or stenna stair lifts to give me some money to place adverts against the films.

The tractor and truck films get loads of hits - but they all now belong to googleand all the revenue goes to them

companies with specific sailing related products are after the eyes of sailors but that it more about shifting them up the google rankings so that if you put in depth sounder raymarine comes up rather than pea stick.

They are all giving up on the magazines. The web has nicked the classified adverts - so the days when a magazine has 50 per cent adverts for second hand boats has long gone

chandlers are finding it hard to compete against the internet so those massive four page adverts of sailing gubbins have gone as well.

The fact is that if you have a specialist interest and you want to see more about it then some-one has to pay somewhere.

As a video maker with two million sailing hits and 12,000 subscribers you can sometimes blag the odd bit of gear. Walker Bay said they would loan me a dinghy provided I payed for it to be shipped over here.

The Westerly Centaur I am currently sailing is being kept here

https://www.mylor.com/

over the winter - normally it would be £1600 for the six winter months - but they have offered it to me for £800 because I make films and will attract hits and improve their google rankings by putting their link in the first line of the youtube films shot there.

They want me off the pontoon by March when a proper fee paying customer will be moved in.

However, the boat is five hours from home and even with the discount it costs more to keep it in Falmouth to keep the project going than my normal haunt of my beloved east coast mud.

Those viewers who hope that advertising will save them from stumping up some cash for the films they want to see are being very optimistic.

it is just never going to happen.

I have been doing this for several years now and watched sailing projects come and go. Every month I get emails from blokes saying that they are going to buy a boat, make some films and fund their trip around the world/europe/'the local lake by making brilliant videos. They make three - get 300 hits on each and realise that it is not going to work

the videos have to be good enough to attract the eyes and you have to turn yourself into a content machine with a website that changes almost every day and the films have to pop into life when you click the button.

At the moment the only way of doing that is really through google/youtube so you have to play their game. They spatter non sailing general ads all over the films they get for free from the makers and in the vast majority of cases pass none of it - not a sausage - back to the video producers.

I am jolly lucky I am not trying to pay for a mortgage and a family this way

but...... I have never enjoyed my sailing as much as I do now. It is partly because of the feedback I get from my fellow sailors, I love the idea that old blokes like the films and my wit enough to chip in and their contributions allow me to sail further and harder than I could without their help.

I would still be sailing but probably just pootling around local estuaries drinking whisky, smoking rollups and watching birds.

the kindness of the MOBs makes me healthier and happier - and gives them something to do in the winter when they are pining for the water.

In the summer my hit rate falls through the floor - which is the way it should be.

thanks chaps

I am learning a lot

D


----------



## Minnewaska

mbianka said:


> .... I don't have a problem with either model. .....


Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with any of these models either.

I am challenging the thinking to see if we can all get a clearer understanding of whether or when one should contribute. The one universally accepted premise (I think) is that no one can or will contribute to everything they watch.


----------



## Minnewaska

sailvayu said:


> ..... Producing a decent video costs money and time nobody is going to keep doing it for free. .....


Ah, I think you're on to something, but not the premise you made.

Indeed, there are more vids out there that are not asking for money than there are that do ask, many of which are as decent as those making the ask. For many producers, this seems to be for their pleasure as much as, if not more than, the audience. A hobby.

The worst businesses to be in are the ones where competitors are willing to do it for free. Most channels do not ask in the online vid biz and the content seems endless. Maybe this will change over time.

Of all the different kinds of vids I watch, I think its only the sailing/cruising vids that make the ask for a direct contribution. I'm sure others do and I don't experience them, but my point is, most are in fact willing to produce massive amounts of content without asking. The only common characteristic is to ask you to subscribe. As I mentioned in a prior post, sailing channels (even poplular ones) have a fraction of the subscribers that many others have. So, perhaps the ask is there, because there isn't enough volume to be paid otherwise. That seems like a supply and demand problem. The question is, when do you pay to hear a story at the bar that was likely going to be told anyway.

There have been some great perspectives here.

I think the analogy to a tip jar is the most common. However, of all the places that have one (coffee shop, street performer, etc), I can't recall ever being asked. It's just there, if you're interested. Maybe it's the idea that one would actually ask that has my attention.


----------



## kwaltersmi

I'm mostly immune to the recent Patreon push and the "buy us a beer" buttons. I have absolutely no issues with folks implementing these campaigns and so far they don't detract from my reading/viewing pleasure. In fact, I think it's pretty cool that it's possible (though not common) to fund a cruising lifestyle via online sailing content. I rarely contribute financially (mostly because I'm building our own kitty), but I do put in a good word about efforts and projects that I like.


----------



## dylanwinter1

kwaltersmi said:


> I'm mostly immune to the recent Patreon push and the "buy us a beer" buttons. I have absolutely no issues with folks implementing these campaigns and so far they don't detract from my reading/viewing pleasure. In fact, I think it's pretty cool that it's possible (though not common) to fund a cruising lifestyle via online sailing content. I rarely contribute financially (mostly because I'm building our own kitty), but I do put in a good word about efforts and projects that I like.


so do you chip in for mozilla or wiki?

do you chip in for anything at all?

D


----------



## dylanwinter1

Minnewaska said:


> Ah, I think you're on to something, but not the premise you made.
> 
> Indeed, there are more vids out there that are not asking for money than there are that do ask, many of which are as decent as those making the ask. For many producers, this seems to be for their pleasure as much as, if not more than, the audience. A hobby.
> 
> The worst businesses to be in are the ones where competitors are willing to do it for free. Most channels do not ask in the online vid biz and the content seems endless. Maybe this will change over time.
> 
> Of all the different kinds of vids I watch, I think its only the sailing/cruising vids that make the ask for a direct contribution. I'm sure others do and I don't experience them, but my point is, most are in fact willing to produce massive amounts of content without asking. The only common characteristic is to ask you to subscribe. As I mentioned in a prior post, sailing channels (even poplular ones) have a fraction of the subscribers that many others have. So, perhaps the ask is there, because there isn't enough volume to be paid otherwise. That seems like a supply and demand problem. The question is, when do you pay to hear a story at the bar that was likely going to be told anyway.
> 
> There have been some great perspectives here.
> 
> I think the analogy to a tip jar is the most common. However, of all the places that have one (coffee shop, street performer, etc), I can't recall ever being asked. It's just there, if you're interested. Maybe it's the idea that one would actually ask that has my attention.


not sure I see the distinction between a tip jar on a bar - which is a give us a tip if you like

and a paypal button on the end of a film - which is give us a tip if you like

the difference is of course you expect to pay for a coffee or a film or a DVD

but do not generally expect to pay for youtube video - other than the time spent watching the adverts - the benefit of which google generally do not pass onto the producers.


----------



## Sea&Stars

If you want to really exploit Sailing as an entertainment commodity then you have to develop a concept. From the concept comes all the revenue streams that you could develop.
Dylan has a brilliant concept: Man circumnavigates the UK in a small boat. (As close to a space adventure as one could hope to have) 
From there he could make films, a graphic novel, a book, action figures, T-shirts, coffee mugs. There's crowd funding: Paypal taps, Patreon, Go fund me... whatever. If you're producing that high a quality product don't just park it at video. Granted Sailing isn't gonna sell like Space Ships and blasters but its interesting how such an adventure as Dylan's has so many following already. I see where the SV Seeker channel is starting to market some stuff and has opened up to the community to participate in what would appear to be an endless build of an enormous boat in his front yard. Its developing a concept, marketing, sales. If you want to do it don't be shy, ask and you shall receive.


----------



## jackdaw

I find the notion of making personal sailing vids for profit a turn-off. Unless they are VERY good, both from a story and a production value standpoint. And most are not. The absolute best were Dylan's early vids on the Slug. Well produced, the story arc was compelling and well told. I subscribed to watch those.


----------



## mbianka

dylanwinter1 said:


> That is dead right -
> 
> the problem with sailing films is that unless they contain tits and bums then the audience will never be big enough to attract the general advertisers. Although I have had 30 million hits on tractor films my sailing films have had 2 million hits an average hit for my sailing films is probably around 10,000 a year per film not enough for Ford cars or stenna stair lifts to give me some money to place adverts against the films.
> 
> Those viewers who hope that advertising will save them from stumping up some cash for the films they want to see are being very optimistic.
> 
> it is just never going to happen.
> 
> I have been doing this for several years now and watched sailing projects come and go. Every month I get emails from blokes saying that they are going to buy a boat, make some films and fund their trip around the world/europe/'the local lake by making brilliant videos. They make three - get 300 hits on each and realise that it is not going to work the videos have to be good enough to attract the eyes and you have to turn yourself into a content machine with a website that changes almost every day and the films have to pop into life when you click the button.
> 
> At the moment the only way of doing that is really through google/youtube so you have to play their game. They spatter non sailing general ads all over the films they get for free from the makers and in the vast majority of cases pass none of it - not a sausage - back to the video producers.
> 
> I am jolly lucky I am not trying to pay for a mortgage and a family this way
> 
> but...... I have never enjoyed my sailing as much as I do now. It is partly because of the feedback I get from my fellow sailors, I love the idea that old blokes like the films and my wit enough to chip in and their contributions allow me to sail further and harder than I could without their help.
> 
> I would still be sailing but probably just pootling around local estuaries drinking whisky, smoking rollups and watching birds.
> the kindness of the MOBs makes me healthier and happier - and gives them something to do in the winter when they are pining for the water.
> 
> In the summer my hit rate falls through the floor - which is the way it should be.
> 
> thanks chaps
> 
> I am learning a lot
> 
> D


I'm learning a lot too Dylan Thanks for sharing your experience and numbers. Even though your videos do not go viral I am still impressed with the numbers you get. Many content providers would like to have those figures. IMO it's also a tribute to how many like your niche sailing videos.

I am curious about one thing. Even though the buggers at Google Adsense booted you out of their revenue club. I see they still run banner ads on your You Tube videos though they are not giving you any revenue. You should be able to go into your You Tube account setup menu and unclick the monitization button. At least that should stop the buggers from making money off your work. I would then place a small banner with an embedded link intermittently on the screen saying something like "If you are enjoying this video please support this MOB by clicking here." The link could be to your web page, paypal, pateron site etc... 
You should still be able to make those videos work for you financially IMO without google taking a cut.


----------



## dylanwinter1

mbianka said:


> I'm learning a lot too Dylan Thanks for sharing your experience and numbers. Even though your videos do not go viral I am still impressed with the numbers you get. Many content providers would like to have those figures. IMO it's also a tribute to how many like your niche sailing videos.
> 
> I am curious about one thing. Even though the buggers at Google Adsense booted you out of their revenue club. I see they still run banner ads on your You Tube videos though they are not giving you any revenue. You should be able to go into your You Tube account setup menu and unclick the monitization button. At least that should stop the buggers from making money off your work. I would then place a small banner with an embedded link intermittently on the screen saying something like "If you are enjoying this video please support this MOB by clicking here." The link could be to your web page, paypal, pateron site etc...
> You should still be able to make those videos work for you financially IMO without google taking a cut.


youtube is my front door , it is where people find me so I want youtube/google alogorythmns to throw my films in front of other sailors who have watched SV velos with their blend of wenches and winches.

Most will ignore the red sail or the nice sunset and click on another wench in a bikini - but some will watch one of my films - if they like them they will watch five more, then ten, then twenty - maybe even 200 before they decide to hit the paypal button

You can bet that google youtube will promote videos from which it earns money - so, if I take the adverts off they will stop promoting my films to other sailors - it would do me more harm than good

google youtube is too big to notice my gesture

It was an algorithm that stopped my $800 a a month cheque

it is an algorithm that decides how much my films will get promoted to other sailors

a classic cutting off my own nose to spite my face.

there is another factor - terrible but true

if I put a link to youtube on this website or my own - embed a film and it does not play they will not blame me or the website

they will blame the web for being slow

if you embed a vimeo film and it does not fire up then I get the blame

Youtube delivers - and if as a result of posting one of my films here to help make a point and a few yanks click on it you can bet that it will spend some time on a server near to you guys -

google owns some really fat pipes

they have shown they can live without me but I cannot live without them

nothing new in that though - I have been a hack for three decades and am used to surrendering power and ownership over my words and images to big organisations

a bbc contract hands copright to them "in all territories and formats in the known and as yet unkown universe in perpetuity.

what is unique now is that I can appeal almost directly to the 2000 mainly old blokes who sail small boats on modest incomes to chip in to keep a fresh supply of films to help them throough the winter These blokes are scattered all over the the english speaking world - but scattered very thinly. The web allows them to find my odd little brand of affordable, achievable, occasionally informative, usuaully witty, sometimes erudite but always nice to watch videos.

Occasionaklly after spending an agreeable hour or so with a glass of whisky and an easy going englishman they might hit the paypal button

most donatyions come in after 11.00 pm local time be it UK, Texas or New Zealand - anywhere an english speaking bloke over 50 can safely sail a small yacht.

All done without tits, clear water or made up races against time

it is a most remarkable phenomenon that I have got this far largely using taps from old blokes.


----------



## Minnewaska

dylanwinter1 said:


> not sure I see the distinction between a tip jar on a bar - which is a give us a tip if you like
> 
> and a paypal button on the end of a film - which is give us a tip if you like
> 
> the difference is of course you expect to pay for a coffee or a film or a DVD
> 
> but do not generally expect to pay for youtube video - other than the time spent watching the adverts - the benefit of which google generally do not pass onto the producers.


I'm not saying one or the other is right or wrong, but I do think there is a clear distinction.

When I walk past a street performer, there is a hat, or bucket or music case open, but no one ever asks. It's just available. At the end of some cruising vids, there is a specific verbal ask. It usually take the form of an invitation to "join" them or "support" the video prodcution. In some cases, the solicition is made on the sailing forums themselves, as opposed to the vids. Always polite, but distinct from other forms of tipping.


----------



## dylanwinter1

Minnewaska said:


> I'm not saying one or the other is right or wrong, but I do think there is a clear distinction.
> 
> When I walk past a street performer, there is a hat, or bucket or music case open, but no one ever asks. It's just available. At the end of some cruising vids, there is a specific verbal ask. It usually take the form of an invitation to "join" them or "support" the video prodcution. In some cases, the solicition is made on the sailing forums themselves, as opposed to the vids. Always polite, but distinct from other forms of tipping.


I sincerely apologise if you think I am on here asking for money

not my intention at all

I think that a degree of financial transparency is a good thing.

that aside I also think culture is also important

if you went into a cafe in the UK and bought a cup of tea and a slice then you would not expect to leave a gratuity for the waitress. I would not expect to go into a modest hotel and have a bloke carry my bags up the starirs in return for a $5 tip

in and America diner even a black coffee would be likely to have the expectation of a tip

It is hard to know but it is my guess that Americans are better paypal tappers than Brits

you tube tells me where people are watching and how often - I have bother dollar and sterling buttons.

people can pay if they wish - or not

One of the things that amazes me is when some-one comes onto the British websites with a big hurrah about how they are going to sail around Britain for Cancer/dog/wildlife charidees

They raise their money, set off on their big adventure with sponsorship decals covering their often rather expensive boats, they blog a bit but not much beyond telling their nicely made website that they have got to Great Yarmoth/ Anstruther, Inverness, Glasgow, Cardiff, Falmouth then finish the trip and disappear.

I often wonder what the budget was for such a venture and how much went to the charidee

D


----------



## mbianka

dylanwinter1 said:


> youtube is my front door , it is where people find me so I want youtube/google alogorythmns to throw my films in front of other sailors who have watched SV velos with their blend of wenches and winches.
> 
> Most will ignore the red sail or the nice sunset and click on another wench in a bikini - but some will watch one of my films - if they like them they will watch five more, then ten, then twenty - maybe even 200 before they decide to hit the paypal button
> 
> You can bet that google youtube will promote videos from which it earns money - so, if I take the adverts off they will stop promoting my films to other sailors - it would do me more harm than good
> google youtube is too big to notice my gesture


Ahhh thanks for that explanation. Makes a lot of sense from your part. Perhaps maybe some of your friends at the BBC might do a story about how mean ole GOOGLE is denying an old retired video hack some meager income from his labors while they take in millions! With enough pressure they might be able to get you back on the Adsense gravy train err.. I mean bread line with the rest of us.


----------



## dylanwinter1

mbianka said:


> Ahhh thanks for that explanation. Makes a lot of sense from your part. Perhaps maybe some of your friends at the BBC might do a story about how mean ole GOOGLE is denying an old retired video hack some meager income from his labors while they take in millions! With enough pressure they might be able to get you back on the Adsense gravy train err.. I mean bread line with the rest of us.


been there - done that

the story was top of reddit for about a week

the BBC world service picked it up

they arranged for me to do a live head to head with a google man in the Uk in the BBC studio

I schlepped to London for the interview the google man pulled out an hour before air time - so world service interviewed me on tape

did not run the story that day because the google man said he could come in the next day, He came in and did a live 
repost to what I said on tape and added a few other things

very clever PR there - the very best money can buy in fact

no head to head...

no back and forth

as a freelance I have learned that you can spend way too much time trying to get justice from people who are bigger than you

so just roll with it

interestingly of course had they not thrown me out I would have been making truck films for the money rather than sailing films.

I would have had a bigger car and a bigger boat

but on balance I like the way it has panned out

- so far this is better

all good stuff for the book - it has been a marvelous digital jounrney

I assume I will be adding a live web cam before I finish

D


----------



## MedSailor

(sorry, haven't read every post)

I feel the model is a little like the public radio model. If you're already using the service, you can choose to be a supporter by paying. If you don't have the coin, don't feel like you use it enough to justify the payment, then you don't have to contribute, but you can if you want. If you've ever listened to one of those annoying public radio or PBS TV pledge drives, they offer all kids of explanations to why you might want to "become a supporter" and many of their arguments are germane to this discussion. I support 2 public radio stations currently. I do it because I can afford it (they are modest contributions) and because I use the service and because it makes me feel good. In the case of the local high-school station, I used to run my high school's station so it reminds me of fond memories. By contributing to help these kids do their thing, I feel connected and it makes me feel good. 

Supporting one's cruise/dream/etc can help one feel connected. Recently I met a dock-walker who was admiring an Amel Super Marimu and we started talking. He watches the Delos videos and contributes through Patreon. He is nurturing a sailing dream and doesn't (yet) have a boat, but feels closer to the dream by contributing, or so he told me. 

I also recently contributed to Alex's "project bluesphere." I recall seeing his DVD's, available for mail order (before youtube) at $20 each. They're not available for free (and worth watching) and he politely asks for a donation. He put some effort into the production and I had always planned to order the DVD's by mail, but never got around to it. I thought it fair to toss him some money after I enjoyed his videos. I also got a smile when she sent me a thank-you email. 

MedSailor


----------



## Mark1948

I only watch a utube occasionally and would not watch at all if it cost money. As a side note I am getting very tired of the 15 to 20 minutes of add on standard cable channels. When you realize a college football bowl game takes 3.5 hours things have just gone too far. I have better things to do with my time. Thank you to PBS which is mostly commercial free. Congress don't cut its funding.


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## dylanwinter1

Mark1948 said:


> I only watch a utube occasionally and would not watch at all if it cost money. As a side note I am getting very tired of the 15 to 20 minutes of add on standard cable channels. When you realize a college football bowl game takes 3.5 hours things have just gone too far. I have better things to do with my time. Thank you to PBS which is mostly commercial free. Congress don't cut its funding.


One of the problems with terrestrial TV and sailing for me as a consumer is that before every commercial break they show you what is going to happen and then after every one they tell you what happened. A one hour show will have 15 minutes of adverts and 15 minutes of repeats or prepeats of stuff that will already be in the prog. There is currently a bloke walking the Himalayas for Channel 4. They show you everything at least three times.

We have had several TV series on sailing on - they do not show you enough sailing - or maybe not the right bits. I want to see how a boat is being sailed. I want to be in the cockpit with the sailor.

I am really pleased that the video bloggers and film-makers take me to places I would never get to sail

I would like to request that some small boat sailing ex hack makes some films about the cheapeake

I want shallow sailing, old boats, birds, tides and some geography please.

I would happy to watch every minute of it and chip in for it.

D

PS - if the bloke could sail a boat that is slightly crapper than mine that would be the cherry on the cake


----------



## Sea&Stars

PS - if the bloke could sail a boat that is slightly crapper than mine that would be the cherry on the cake

I'm working on it ...


----------



## dylanwinter1

Sea&Stars said:


> PS - if the bloke could sail a boat that is slightly crapper than mine that would be the cherry on the cake
> 
> I'm working on it ...


looking forward to the films

so are you doing the chesapeake?

- that will be great

my finger will be poised above the paypal button

D


----------



## XSrcing

One thing to remember is that there are a ton of people cutting the cord on cable TV. I did it 6 years ago. When we want digital stimulation at our home it's Netflix or Youtube.


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## Minnewaska

dylanwinter1 said:


> I sincerely apologise if you think I am on here asking for money.......


To be sure, you have nothing to apologize for. This is solely a discussion over who does, does not, and why. No right and wrong, just trying to understand. You've been a terrific help.


----------



## Minnewaska

MedSailor said:


> (sorry, haven't read every post)
> 
> I feel the model is a little like the public radio model. .......


That's another very good analogy.

PBS is excellent quality. Most of (not all) the youtube cruising vids are not great quality. As I've mentioned, some of the most popular vids that ask are not good quality. Mostly T&A. No T&A on PBS. Maybe they should reconsider.


----------



## dylanwinter1

Minnewaska said:


> That's another very good analogy.
> 
> PBS is excellent quality. Most of (not all) the youtube cruising vids are not great quality. As I've mentioned, some of the most popular vids that ask are not good quality. Mostly T&A. No T&A on PBS. Maybe they should reconsider.


what is T and A

googled it and failed to find in the context of sailing

D


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## Minnewaska

dylanwinter1 said:


> what is T and A
> 
> googled it and failed to find in the context of sailing
> 
> D


Pretty young ladies creating youtube views. Despite the quality of the video.


----------



## dylanwinter1

Minnewaska said:


> Pretty young ladies creating youtube views. Despite the quality of the video.


it means tits and ass then I assume

sorry - not a common acronym here in Buckinghamshire

D


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## Minnewaska

dylanwinter1 said:


> it means tits and ass then I assume
> 
> sorry - not a common acronym here in Buckinghamshire
> 
> D


Boobs and Bums, then, as I think you referred them.

So far, it's the only correlation to sailing vid views and subscription counts that I can figure. Yours are among the highest quality, but bikinis seem to be selling better. Maybe it's the Caribbean or South Pacific. Nah, I think not.


----------



## dylanwinter1

Minnewaska said:


> Boobs and Bums, then, as I think you referred them.
> 
> So far, it's the only correlation to sailing vid views and subscription counts that I can figure. Yours are among the highest quality, but bikinis seem to be selling better. Maybe it's the Caribbean or South Pacific. Nah, I think not.


wenches and winches

D


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## Bleemus

Dylan. Love your vids. Didn't know you were here too. Keep turning left!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jackdaw

Dylan, off topic for sure, but what happened to the Slug?


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## dylanwinter1

jackdaw said:


> Dylan, off topic for sure, but what happened to the Slug?





jackdaw said:


> Dylan, off topic for sure, but what happened to the Slug?


sailed her for four years - exploring every creek and river between southampton and North Norfolk

engine went pop - sold the slug for £1500.










then bought a hunter minstrel with a new outboard in a well for £7K




























I sailed that from North Norfolk to scotland exploring every east coast river along the way - Tyne, Tees, Wear, Forth, TayMoray

then bought a westerly centaur for £1 in the solent










sailed that up , over the top including shetland and Orkney and down to glasgow

sold that

sailed the Minstrel for a summer

then bought another centaur

for £5,500










currently sailing in Falmouth and am taking that back up to scotland to pick up the journey where I left off with the old Centaur

just posted a film about Orkney






It has been a brilliant eight years - reckon I have eight more years before I finish

outer hebs, Clyde, Ireland, Shannon, Severn, Wye, Channel Islands, Brittany and then back to the east coast to end my days drinking whisky and watching birds on the Blackwater and Colne

D


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## Argyle38

I see what you did there.


----------



## Minnewaska

Minnewaska said:


> Reading some of the links in Dylan's post brought the Amazon click through to my attention. It's always been interesting that an Amazon link that you might paste into your post here will appear with the picture of the product. I use it all the the time for that purpose alone, not realizing that SN would get a penny or two, if a reader clicked on it and actually bought the product from Amazon.
> 
> That feature is quite clever on Amazon's/SN part. I could post a link to the product anywhere, but usually check to see if it's listed on Amazon first, just so that the picture appears.


It may be coincidence, but ever since we discussed this, the Amazon picture no longer automatically becomes part of a post, when the link is pasted. I wonder if SN wasn't getting their vig.

I've also been researching youtube's economics offline a bit more. Did you all know that the longest vid is 596.5 hours long, it's only a screen that says "this is the longest video on youtube" and has 2.8 million views! Seems like view counts are not well correlated to editing quality.


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## kjango

Most of the sailing / cruising videos I've seen are amateurish & painfully boring . I've never considered that people were trying to make money off them.


----------



## titustiger27

kjango said:


> Most of the sailing / cruising videos I've seen are amateurish & painfully boring . I've never considered that people were trying to make money off them.


What is an example of non- amateurish and boring (to you)?

I agree with the fact many of the videos are amateurish, by amateurs (real people).

For me, the analogy would be: in 1977 the same was said about punk music, it wasn't boring


----------



## dylanwinter1

kjango said:


> Most of the sailing / cruising videos I've seen are amateurish & painfully boring . I've never considered that people were trying to make money off them.


I agree - most of them are just that

I think that most of the people who seek to be rewarded for their time involved in making them soon start to try to raise their game.

I think that it is interesting to see the way an entirely new narrative form is being developed because of the cheapness of the video equipment and the access to a world wide market of other small boat sailors.

The good video series are more akin to sailing books of the past - created for sailors by sailors. Up until now, when it comes to video, we have to accept what was dished up to us by the TV companies - three men in a boat in the Uk is a classic example of the editing commissioners art.

Those films are about three blokes on a boat being witty.

In a good sailing video series you can get to know what a place is really like, see some good sailing, be given time to see the way a sail is set, see what the sea conditions are like, see local boats.

Only a small minority of the youtube videos are worth watching and only a small number of people will watch them - say 10,000 hits per year per film. Only a small percentage of those 10,000 would be generous enough to hit the paypal button after having consumed the product. However, the cost of an extra book in a print run was a small marginal cost - the marginal cost of distributing another 1,000 or another 10,000 copies of a youtube film is zero. So those who watch but do not chip in are not taking anything from the project. Some blokes who have watched 100, 200 or even 300 of my films still decide not to pay - quite a few crack after they have watched 100 soread over ta couple of years.

A really intersting dynamic. Youtube is the William Caxton of our age.

I do think that it would have been interesting to see some of the great small boat voyages of the past as video blogs

imagine if Shane Acton, Melville or Slocum had video cameras. They all had a desire to tell a story and would certainly have used video cameras if they had been available.

I am very grateful that people take the effort to tell the rest of us what it is like sailing in places I will never see for myself.

D


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## Fantail

dylanwinter1 said:


> it means tits and ass then I assume
> 
> sorry - not a common acronym here in Buckinghamshire
> 
> D


Not a Stones fan eh?
T & A was borne in the UK.
Thanks to one Mick Jagger and one Keith Richards.

Little T&A from 1981's Tattoo You.


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## kjango

Day before yesterday I literally watched 5 minutes of a guys wife placing cans in a compartment & then the guy boiling water in a tea kettle......seriously


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## CptnRn

I subscribe to several series of sailing videos. S/V Delos is the one that I have enjoyed the most. I have donated to them in the past.

The quality is quite good, they visit interesting places, their adventures are fun to watch and occasionally educational.


----------



## Minnewaska

Coincidentally, I was speaking to someone who has a close relationship to a Hollywood movie producer. Movies you've heard of, but I won't out him. He's not Scorcessi, Coppola or Lucas level, but you would know his movies.

Anyway, major gripe that the money isn't what it used to be in their industry. He's getting out. On the one hand, there was stupid money in that business, so it may have been inevitable. On the other, one can't help but wonder if the alternative entertainment channels, such as YouTube, haven't taken away some of the audience. Businesses only make money on their last sale, not their first sale, as fixed costs have to be paid. When you lose a few sales, your profit goes down exponentially.

So I thought of my spend. Do I attend fewer movies, or rent fewer movies? Maybe, but it was never a steady diet. I bet I pay for approx 5-10 of them combined per year. Just one fewer would be a 10% - 20% decline in my spend. That could be meaningful, if it applied across the entire consumer group.

So I got to think that those dollars might make sense to be redirected toward YouTube vids. Then this really struck me. I literally pay hundreds of dollars per year to have access to the Internet. By comparison, it's costing me a fortune to watch YouTube.


----------



## MedSailor

Minnewaska said:


> Coincidentally, I was speaking to someone who has a close relationship to a Hollywood movie producer. Movies you've heard of, but I won't out him. He's not Scorcessi, Coppola or Lucas level, but you would know his movies.
> 
> Anyway, major gripe that the money isn't what it used to be in their industry. He's getting out. On the one hand, there was stupid money in that business, so it may have been inevitable. On the other, one can't help but wonder if the alternative entertainment channels, such as YouTube, haven't taken away some of the audience. Businesses only make money on their last sale, not their first sale, as fixed costs have to be paid. When you lose a few sales, your profit goes down exponentially.
> 
> So I thought of my spend. Do I attend fewer movies, or rent fewer movies? Maybe, but it was never a steady diet. I bet I pay for approx 5-10 of them combined per year. Just one fewer would be a 10% - 20% decline in my spend. That could be meaningful, if it applied across the entire consumer group.
> 
> So I got to think that those dollars might make sense to be redirected toward YouTube vids. Then this really struck me. I literally pay hundreds of dollars per year to have access to the Internet. *By comparison, it's costing me a fortune to watch YouTube*.


Yes but what percentage of your spend is used on Youtube or Netflix? Your movie spend went 100% to watch movies only, your internet connection is likely used for work, family, personal uses etc. Think of it from a tax deduction point of view. What percent of your friend's internet bill could he deduct for his work? What about you?

MedSailor


----------



## Minnewaska

MedSailor said:


> Yes but what percentage of your spend is used on Youtube or Netflix? Your movie spend went 100% to watch movies only, your internet connection is likely used for work, family, personal uses etc. Think of it from a tax deduction point of view. What percent of your friend's internet bill could he deduct for his work? What about you?
> 
> MedSailor


Didn't mean to suggest the entire investment in my internet access went to YouTube. No work on my personal ipad and laptop.

I will be willing to bet, however, that the 10 bucks or so that I am not spending on a movie, is far less than the proper proportionate time I spend on YouTube. My iPad alone requires $30/mo for a data plan. That would only require a few percentage points of time on YT. I'm sure it's multiples that level. Then there is my home internet fee, my phone, my wife's phone.

While I'm just musing over this thread's topic, it's a big indication of how much more we spend on monthly fees than we every did in the past.

We never had to pay to have a theater and then also pay to watch the movie.


----------



## Sea&Stars

OK, this isn't sailing related but if you want to really rack up the youtube points this is how to do it... Heroically!






Hope you like it.


----------



## mstern

Awesome!


----------



## SVAuspicious

Many thanks to Dylan for his perspective.



Stu Jackson said:


> Seems it would be the same although most of us feel the FREE internet should remain that way.


There are a lot of things on the Internet that are not free, even neglecting the cost of connecting to the Internet. Amazon Prime, Netflix, newspapers behind paywalls.

Someone, somewhere has to pay - fees, advertising, or whatever the money comes from somewhere.



Minnewaska said:


> Still trying to get my head around whether asking for Patreon money is asking to be paid for a service, a gratuity or just a tin cup on the sidewalk.


The concept of patronage is centuries old. Patreon has merely thrown some technology at the situation and expanded the potential donors.


----------



## Minnewaska

SVAuspicious said:


> .....The concept of patronage is centuries old. Patreon has merely thrown some technology at the situation and expanded the potential donors.


That's a new twist. Noble wealthy elite effectively sponsored artists and academics. Among elite circles, your collection of artists and academics was a status symbol, not unlike conspicuous consumption today. Further, one's status as an artist or academic was more closely correlated to the status of their Patron than their product.

I think I would prefer to receive a gratuity or sell a video as a commercial enterprise than be considered the collectible of a Patron, as was the case centuries ago.


----------



## smackdaddy

Minnewaska said:


> I think I would prefer to receive a gratuity or sell a video as a commercial enterprise than be considered the collectible of a Patron, as was the case centuries ago.


If that's what you think Patreon is - I really don't think you understand the demographic or the platform.


----------



## dylanwinter1

The problem with Patreon for me is that the maker of the films gets paid per film. As a film maker you know that some films are better than others - some pay better than others. If blokes like a film I have put up then they will sometimes I will get a lot of tiny taps from lots of blokes - or a few bigger taps from fewer blokes

I also ask them to leave a comment ialong with the tap

They can reward me for making a film they like - as opposed to just the next film in a series.

I do not stick to a strict regime for putting films up. Some take longer to make than others so I only put them up when they are ready. I aim to put most of them up in the winter when sailors need a bit of a fix

So for me the individual taps on individual films is a major spur and gives me an idea of what sort of films oldish small boat sailors want to watch

D


----------



## Minnewaska

There's been some great contribution from a few youtube producers and contributors alike. Dylan has been terrific in sharing his perspective, without damning those with different takes. Others too, but some just seem defensive. That's interesting. Can you imagine a commercial enterprise telling a prospect that they just don't understand the product, whether true or not? Could you imagine a bunch of consumers discussing whether the iphone was worth it and Apple chiming in publicly to say this prospect didn't get it? Would their marketing folks suggest they just keep it to themselves and stick to explaining why Apple believes in their own product? I think we can rule out the commercial enterprise angle for some. That puts them back to the tin cup street performer model.

Ultimately, money is exchanging hands for [fill in the blank].

The only constant is money. The rest seems to be in the eye of the beholder so far.

The youtube/patreon phenom has developed since the depths of the great recession. I'll be curious what happens to it in the next recession. Will the asks increase, will the contributions be as available? I believe the motion picture industry can see an increase in sales in recessions, as folks substitute a movie ticket for more expensive forms of entertainment. A burger and a movie, over a NYC steakhouse and $100 bottle of wine.

I wonder how the youtube/patreon economy will react. Will youtube become a substitute form of entertainment that can be accessed for free? (well, free after you've paid for internet access). Will the voluntary contributions change?


----------



## Kostis

Sea&Stars said:


> OK, this isn't sailing related but if you want to really rack up the youtube points this is how to do it... Heroically!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope you like it.


Epic Dude. :cut_out_animated_em


----------



## SVTatia

Kostis said:


> Epic Dude. :cut_out_animated_em


Fantastic team work. Epic indeed.

28,9 million views in less than a year.
Not bad....:|


----------



## Kostis

Ok my opinion. I would not pay to see anyones video on youtube. Thats the idea of youtube - free!! But I had I would prefer to pay for someone depending on that they do and the quality of their work. For example, from what I see I rather pay for keep turning left than other stuff. 

Also young people can always go back and work. While older people really take a chance if things go wrong. I actually do pay for OffcenterHarbor so I can watch the content and basically the videos. But it has nothing to do with age. 

An other argument would be, that if I want to learn something, I will most likely learn to from people with experience and that usually comes with time. If I want to see tits there plenty free online and I don't need to pay youtube for that.


----------



## BigNickMontana

I am going to jump in on this one because I am a content creator, my current channel Renegade Trucker has just over 5K subscribers and in the last month I have brought down over 200,000 views. So I have a pretty solid understanding of both sides of this endeavor. 

When it comes to making videos, content creation is expensive. In my kit alone I have over 12,000.00 invested. It is also time consuming making videos, Often I spend 4-5 hours a day filming and editing to get videos pumped out on a regular basis. 

When it comes to running my channel I do have my videos monetized, but I have not turned to Patreon, although I have considered it. 

Really the question you have to ask when you consider funding a channel is by spending your money on this are you getting value out of that which you have spent? Some people will never spend a dime and that is fine, others will contribute quite handily and that is great too. 

I can see for people making sailing videos how essential the YouTube income is, in the channel I am currently doing I am filming myself at work so reaching out to my audience for support has been a non issue, but when you are making films about your adventures and lifestyle, well the funding for that has to come from somewhere. 

I personally love to share my life and experiences through the videos I create, its what got me passionate about film making. When it comes to cruising videos people are sharing a life they are living with people who also live, or wish to live that lifestyle, so by financially supporting the creators they are allowing themselves to continue the experience. 

I think I can sum it up with a quote from the movie Gladiator "Are you not entertained, is this not why you are here?"


----------



## titustiger27

Renegade Trucker: https://www.youtube.com/user/RenegadeTruckerUSA/videos Watching vid one, not bad (some awesome views).. but I like sailing much more than I do trucks.. so I am back to Shaun's Sailing. (https://www.youtube.com/user/donjobs/videos)

One of the things that I think is a misnomer --- you have to have attractive (women) people in your videos or to put it another way - eye candy. I think that is some what true... (Sailing La Vagabonde and SV Delos Sailing are in the top four, but in the top 12 or so it is not bods videos...)

If you have in interest in well made videos, many sailing videos are just that. In fact most of the top videos that have attractive women in them.. are also really well made... I mentioned Shaun's the guy is very good... His videos are aesthetically pleasing, more in the montage of images and the blending of music. (Sure his girlfriend is attractive enough, but she is much more entertaining when she makes jokes that it doesn't seem that Shaun gets.)

Also there are what I would consider 'point of view' videos. Sailing Nervous (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4x5ZeAGz8Z_k0TzQO6fYIQ/videos) is buying a boat and as he goes through the process he is documenting it. I wouldn't say his videos are the most aesthetic but they are very interesting... and Amy (wife) is an attractive not 20-something woman, but you don't watch the videos to see her in a bikini (if you did, you won't see it)

In many ways sailing videos are either travel documentaries or how to videos (and often a combo of both) and a close third would be organizations (America's Cup (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0gzXt1Ms4WVQ7tyGgjTmqA) is #1) and companies (Sailrite)

If you are interested in sailing videos, the couple on Two aboard Tuuli (



) have an awesome side project: https://sailing-channels.com/ . There is listed all the sailing channels, with several ways to list (number of Subscribers, last upload, founded) and you can also search in several ways.

*Lazy Gecko *(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwIThXjmw8eBlEfFZLgZ3-g/featured) is doing something I haven't seen before. They have a side project on Vimeo, where you can go see their 'uncensored' videos.. but you have to pay for that. Lazy G has more of a business model.. already one corporate sponsor and looking for more.

I think the thing that must be accepted... like it or not... is people are making videos about their passion and they are looking for ways to fund them. Some are doing a pretty good job and people are buying into what they do...

I would guess the next thing to come --- (and if I wasn't so lazy....) is someone will be doing a review/digest channel where they summarize the last week's videos.

And in that, I would suggest, if you do it, to review not just the videos (and the bikini's) but the story telling. (Shaun's Sailing, Monday Never, Sailing Uma and several others keep making better and better videos.

For me, the way to think about youtube channels is: about 50 years ago, my dad's sporting club would sponsor movies at a theater. They were topic oriented -- hunting mostly, but some wilderness/nature ones --- and they charged. The club didn't make much money, nor did the film makers, but the showings help fund both. No one walked out of the theater saying: "we paid other people to have fun, hunt... enjoy wilderness." Instead you just made a note of who made the films and thought... I would like to pay to see more (or not).


----------



## BigNickMontana

titustiger27 said:


> Renegade Trucker: https://www.youtube.com/user/RenegadeTruckerUSA/videos Watching vid one, not bad (some awesome views).. but I like sailing much more than I do trucks.. so I am back to Shaun's Sailing. (https://www.youtube.com/user/donjobs/videos)
> 
> One of the things that I think is a misnomer --- you have to have attractive (women) people in your videos or to put it another way - eye candy. I think that is some what true... (Sailing La Vagabonde and SV Delos Sailing are in the top four, but in the top 12 or so it is not bods videos...)
> 
> If you have in interest in well made videos, many sailing videos are just that. In fact most of the top videos that have attractive women in them.. are also really well made... I mentioned Shaun's the guy is very good... His videos are aesthetically pleasing, more in the montage of images and the blending of music. (Sure his girlfriend is attractive enough, but she is much more entertaining when she makes jokes that it doesn't seem that Shaun gets.)
> 
> Also there are what I would consider 'point of view' videos. Sailing Nervous (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4x5ZeAGz8Z_k0TzQO6fYIQ/videos) is buying a boat and as he goes through the process he is documenting it. I wouldn't say his videos are the most aesthetic but they are very interesting... and Amy (wife) is an attractive not 20-something woman, but you don't watch the videos to see her in a bikini (if you did, you won't see it)
> 
> In many ways sailing videos are either travel documentaries or how to videos (and often a combo of both) and a close third would be organizations (America's Cup (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0gzXt1Ms4WVQ7tyGgjTmqA) is #1) and companies (Sailrite)
> 
> If you are interested in sailing videos, the couple on Two aboard Tuuli (Two aboard Tuuli - Sailing-Channels.com Update #1 - YouTube) have an awesome side project: https://sailing-channels.com/ . There is listed all the sailing channels, with several ways to list (number of Subscribers, last upload, founded) and you can also search in several ways.
> 
> *Lazy Gecko *(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwIThXjmw8eBlEfFZLgZ3-g/featured) is doing something I haven't seen before. They have a side project on Vimeo, where you can go see their 'uncensored' videos.. but you have to pay for that. Lazy G has more of a business model.. already one corporate sponsor and looking for more.
> 
> I think the thing that must be accepted... like it or not... is people are making videos about their passion and they are looking for ways to fund them. Some are doing a pretty good job and people are buying into what they do...
> 
> I would guess the next thing to come --- (and if I wasn't so lazy....) is someone will be doing a review/digest channel where they summarize the last week's videos.
> 
> And in that, I would suggest, if you do it, to review not just the videos (and the bikini's) but the story telling. (Shaun's Sailing, Monday Never, Sailing Uma and several others keep making better and better videos.
> 
> For me, the way to think about youtube channels is: about 50 years ago, my dad's sporting club would sponsor movies at a theater. They were topic oriented -- hunting mostly, but some wilderness/nature ones --- and they charged. The club didn't make much money, nor did the film makers, but the showings help fund both. No one walked out of the theater saying: "we paid other people to have fun, hunt... enjoy wilderness." Instead you just made a note of who made the films and thought... I would like to pay to see more (or not).


You're absolutely right, throwing T&A up in front of the camera is only going to get you so far, especially if you have horrible lighting and/or horrid audio.

Really content is king, everyone loves a good story, tell a good story and they will keep coming back.

This is why I am much more looking forward to getting my SV Melodaire channel going than doing the trucking videos because well Trucking is work, and while cool there are only so many stories to tell before it gets horribly repetitive and monotonous and the biggest challenge I face in doing it is keeping the content fresh.

Thanks for the links I am going to go check those out.


----------



## titustiger27

BigNickMontana said:


> You're absolutely right, throwing T&A up in front of the camera is only going to get you so far, especially if you have horrible lighting and/or horrid audio.
> 
> Really content is king, everyone loves a good story, tell a good story and they will keep coming back.
> 
> This is why I am much more looking forward to getting my SV Melodaire channel going than doing the trucking videos because well Trucking is work, and while cool there are only so many stories to tell before it gets horribly repetitive and monotonous and the biggest challenge I face in doing it is keeping the content fresh.
> 
> Thanks for the links I am going to go check those out.


One of the things I wondered about your channel.. you are working (not play sailing) is it hard to make a video?

I wonder if you have somethings planned, like what you want to talk about as a trucker.... Certainly when the person isn't there to process your papers, you have something (unplanned) to talk about.

Also, when you are looking at that beauty day after day.. does it make up for driving through Chicago ?:wink

Content.. and art.. most sailing videos have value because of the sunsets (and other stuff)... the best part of your video to me was the sky and scene ahead of you.. a truck yard not so much.

I have to say, with out watching SV Melodaire channel, there seems to be a lot of comparison to your Renegade Trucker channel...

• long passages to destinations
• exploring those designations
• Bureaucracy at the beginning and end

I could see a open sea shot fade to road shot...

edit: horrible audio the worse in sailing videos... does anyone enjoy wind through a condenser microphone ?


----------



## Minnewaska

BigNickMontana said:


> ....When it comes to making videos, content creation is expensive. In my kit alone I have over 12,000.00 invested.


Thanks for joining the conversation. Did you spend the 12k with the idea that it would be profitable, or are you just hoping to recoup some of your investment?



> Really the question you have to ask when you consider funding a channel is by spending your money on this are you getting value out of that which you have spent?


If the idea is monetary value, I would propose that a sailing channel is the last thing one should create. The best are not close to good value. However, I suspect most producers are getting more than monetary value from publishing their vids.



> I personally love to share my life and experiences through the videos I create, its what got me passionate about film making.


This may be the heart of the matter. You love making films. I love flying, sailing and riding motorcycles. They all cost money and I take people along all the time. Never see or ask for a dime.

As I think I've mentioned before, the worst economic models (businesses) are the ones loaded with people who do it for a hobby. The price will never make sense, when the next guy will give it away.


----------



## mbianka

BigNickMontana said:


> I am going to jump in on this one because I am a content creator, my current channel Renegade Trucker has just over 5K subscribers and in the last month I have brought down over 200,000 views. So I have a pretty solid understanding of both sides of this endeavor.


Nice fun videos Big Nick. Trucking seems to have a few parallels with sailing. Weather being one of them. Living in a confined space another. When I'm on a driving road trip I often seek out Trucker stops like the Iron Skillet. I was admiring the 12 volt appliances that the store sells. Things like 12 volt slow cookers etc... Thought some might be useful on a cruising boat. A road cooking video highlighting what you use could be interesting for us who are sailing too.


----------



## BigNickMontana

titustiger27 said:


> One of the things I wondered about your channel.. you are working (not play sailing) is it hard to make a video?
> 
> I wonder if you have somethings planned, like what you want to talk about as a trucker.... Certainly when the person isn't there to process your papers, you have something (unplanned) to talk about.


Actually more than you would think for me because I haul oversize all the time, so we can only operate sunrise to sunset. It means time management becomes a huge factor because any minute I am holding a camera is time I am not making money.



> Also, when you are looking at that beauty day after day.. does it make up for driving through Chicago ?:wink


I find that when I am in big cities I am rather preoccupied trying to keep people from hitting me while they are texting and driving or other such nonsense people carry out while driving.



> Content.. and art.. most sailing videos have value because of the sunsets (and other stuff)... the best part of your video to me was the sky and scene ahead of you.. a truck yard not so much.
> 
> I have to say, with out watching SV Melodaire channel, there seems to be a lot of comparison to your Renegade Trucker channel...
> 
> • long passages to destinations
> • exploring those designations
> • Bureaucracy at the beginning and end
> 
> I could see a open sea shot fade to road shot...
> 
> edit: horrible audio the worse in sailing videos... does anyone enjoy wind through a condenser microphone ?


You are absolutely right about the horrible wind noise, nothing will make someone stop watching a video faster!

I will be looking forward to having a lot to show on the SV Melodaire channel once I get it going.


----------



## BigNickMontana

Minnewaska said:


> Thanks for joining the conversation. Did you spend the 12k with the idea that it would be profitable, or are you just hoping to recoup some of your investment?
> 
> If the idea is monetary value, I would propose that a sailing channel is the last thing one should create. The best are not close to good value. However, I suspect most producers are getting more than monetary value from publishing their vids.
> 
> This may be the heart of the matter. You love making films. I love flying, sailing and riding motorcycles. They all cost money and I take people along all the time. Never see or ask for a dime.
> 
> As I think I've mentioned before, the worst economic models (businesses) are the ones loaded with people who do it for a hobby. The price will never make sense, when the next guy will give it away.


I spent 12 K a bit at a time, I started with DSLR's doing photography, then started buying go pro's, then a DJI Osmo, its just built slowly over time. Also had to buy a computer powerful enough to edit video, and sound equipment. Something sadly a lot of folks shooting video forget about.

The intent was to get good at producing content before I started my next project because as an eventuality I wanted to be able to make a living at it.


----------



## BigNickMontana

mbianka said:


> Nice fun videos Big Nick. Trucking seems to have a few parallels with sailing. Weather being one of them. Living in a confined space another. When I'm on a driving road trip I often seek out Trucker stops like the Iron Skillet. I was admiring the 12 volt appliances that the store sells. Things like 12 volt slow cookers etc... Thought some might be useful on a cruising boat. A road cooking video highlighting what you use could be interesting for us who are sailing too.


I actually have some of those types of videos on my channel and will be adding more.

You are absolutely right though a lot of parallels between trucking and sailing as far as living conditions go, although on a boat I think conditions are better, you actually have running water and a toilet.

Understandably you still have to conserve but you have them.


----------



## titustiger27

BigNickMontana said:


> Actually more than you would think for me because I haul oversize all the time, so we can only operate sunrise to sunset. It means time management becomes a huge factor because any minute I am holding a camera is time I am not making money.
> 
> *I find that when I am in big cities I am rather preoccupied trying to keep people from hitting me while they are texting and driving or other such nonsense people carry out while driving.*
> 
> You are absolutely right about the horrible wind noise, nothing will make someone stop watching a video faster!
> 
> I will be looking forward to having a lot to show on the SV Melodaire channel once I get it going.


Holding a camera seems to be a problem for all people doing something and making a movie. Most of the sailing vlogs seem to have two people.. I am often amused by the 'walk up' scenes. Certainly they add to the video, but I think.. hmmm: 'you set the camera up, go back and walk by, then go back and get the camera, not to mention the time you spent on your knees making sure you would be in the shot when you walk by' lots of work, when you could be working

I bolded the thing I have heard time and time again from people who drive for a living... People who drive so they have time to text or put on makeup is killing us all.


----------



## BigNickMontana

titustiger27 said:


> Holding a camera seems to be a problem for all people doing something and making a movie. Most of the sailing vlogs seem to have two people.. I am often amused by the 'walk up' scenes. Certainly they add to the video, but I think.. hmmm: 'you set the camera up, go back and walk by, then go back and get the camera, not to mention the time you spent on your knees making sure you would be in the shot when you walk by' lots of work, when you could be working


That is very spot on, and something I have considered is that when I build my boat I will be installing locations where a camera can be hard mounted so I can set it up and take it down quickly allowing me to film certain angles over and over again like steering at the helm or looking over the bow, looking up at the sails, or looking from the mast down ect...

That way I can make great looking well framed footage with out the camera shaking and with out it taking a ton of time to do.



> I bolded the thing I have heard time and time again from people who drive for a living... People who drive so they have time to text or put on makeup is killing us all.


NAILED IT!


----------



## titustiger27

BigNickMontana said:


> That is very spot on, and something I have considered is that when I build my boat I will be installing locations where a camera can be hard mounted so I can set it up and take it down quickly allowing me to film certain angles over and over again like steering at the helm or looking over the bow, looking up at the sails, or looking from the mast down ect...
> 
> That way I can make great looking well framed footage with out the camera shaking and with out it taking a ton of time to do.
> 
> NAILED IT!


Next step is to have those camera locations stream --- either live or to a computer (though one comment I hear a lot from video people (and the one time I turned a go pro on for an hour) you end up with so much footage it makes editing a real job

I searched your future boat name, thinking you might have started your blog/vlog, and found your posts on the Welding site.. you might end up with a wide audience or at least two different people. You have time to think about sponsors (both boat and welding). With your idea of mounted cameras... you could be sure to have the sponsor on camera at all times.

this young woman (https://www.youtube.com/user/jessicawatsonvideo/videos?sort=da&view=0&flow=grid) had lots of sponsors, but never thought to put them in her videos. Speaking of which.. as you think of boat design.. there is always a 'confession area' where you do the talking about what you didn't video record --- but good to build in a camera hold for that.

I don't know if you have ever watched "Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee" (Comedians In Cars Getting Coffee by Jerry Seinfeld) but if you watch close there are 3-4 gopros stationed around in the cars to video tape... though I would guess Jerry's budget is much higher than most... even for a so called 'low budget internet show.'


----------



## dylanwinter1

Few top tips from old video hack

I am not sure it is worth building in special places for the camera

Mine lives on a folded tripod like this

https://www.ballicom.co.uk/00004161...hLWbn6GHj29jQqFUoeH_NbPiNWidcFv4QUaAmH88P8HAQ

£16

The camera on a stick helps you to get a firm hold on it. I never use the eye piece viewfinder and use the flip out viewfinder instead

when attmpting to get rid of the boat movement then I stand with the camera in the middle of my body and look down at the flip out viewfinder. Stand like a gorilla - legs spread and arms slightly bent to maximise your chances of getting rid of the movement.

You can also make the movement more acceptable by slowing the film down by 20 per cent - this seems a good amount so that the viewer does not notice the water is moving too slowly yet seems to make sure that the frames the edit has to invent are as sharp as the proper frames. dropping it by 21 per cent or 19 per cent seems to induce some fuzziness. This works for our UK frame rate of 25 as opposed to the Mercan frame rate of 30.

people say that they cannot see what they are looking at because of reflections in the viewfinder- if you look down at the viewfinder set at 45 degress and you wear a dark blue or black top then the only reflection is darkness and you can see what is in the screen. I sometimes have a dark fleece and a dark t shirt on and have the fleece open so that really helps to cut out extraneous light

so now I am standing like a flashing gorilla in the boat

the zoom is all but useless on the boat so you need to get frighteningly close to the thing you are filming.

These cheapo tripods cost less than one of those all but useless guerilla pod things.

I extend the tripod and bungee it to the pushpit or pull pit. I can also bungee it to a paddle or boat hook to get some height.

As for wind noise - another top tip

after you have finished those lovely shots of the boat pwering through rough weather just hold the camera out of the wind - down in the cockpit or under the spray hood and record some wild track - all the boat noises without the wind

then in the edit you can slide the clean boat noise under the boat noises that have been compromised by the wind hitting the mike diaphragm.

I offer these because I like looking at blokes sailing to places I will never visit.

D

Please, please could some-one make some nice films about the chespeake -v willing to hit the paypal button on those.


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## Minnewaska

dylanwinter1 said:


> Please, please could some-one make some nice films about the chespeake -v willing to hit the paypal button on those.


I put Sailing Chesapeake Bay Sailing in a youtube search field and got precisely 43,900 hits.


----------



## dylanwinter1

Minnewaska said:


> I put Sailing Chesapeake Bay Sailing in a youtube search field and got precisely 43,900 hits.





Minnewaska said:


> I put Sailing Chesapeake Bay Sailing in a youtube search field and got precisely 43,900 hits.


nearly all squirted by numptuies with a go pro with wind noise or rock music on them though

I want films where some-one has put almost as much care into them as I put into mine about our own coast

just sayin

bit of history, some old wooden boats, some wildlife

D


----------



## Minnewaska

dylanwinter1 said:


> nearly all squirted by numptuies with a go pro......


I'll take your word for it. 40+ thousand uploads is a lot of material to review. There are quite a few professional blokes in the Annapolis area, not the least of which is the US Naval Academy. I would be surprised if none have done a good job.


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## seabeau

dylanwinter1 said:


> Few top tips from old video hack
> 
> I am not sure it is worth building in special places for the camera
> 
> Mine lives on a folded tripod like this
> 
> https://www.ballicom.co.uk/00004161...hLWbn6GHj29jQqFUoeH_NbPiNWidcFv4QUaAmH88P8HAQ
> 
> £16
> 
> The camera on a stick helps you to get a firm hold on it. I never use the eye piece viewfinder and use the flip out viewfinder instead
> 
> when attmpting to get rid of the boat movement then I stand with the camera in the middle of my body and look down at the flip out viewfinder. Stand like a gorilla - legs spread and arms slightly bent to maximise your chances of getting rid of the movement.
> 
> You can also make the movement more acceptable by slowing the film down by 20 per cent - this seems a good amount so that the viewer does not notice the water is moving too slowly yet seems to make sure that the frames the edit has to invent are as sharp as the proper frames. dropping it by 21 per cent or 19 per cent seems to induce some fuzziness. This works for our UK frame rate of 25 as opposed to the Mercan frame rate of 30.
> 
> people say that they cannot see what they are looking at because of reflections in the viewfinder- if you look down at the viewfinder set at 45 degress and you wear a dark blue or black top then the only reflection is darkness and you can see what is in the screen. I sometimes have a dark fleece and a dark t shirt on and have the fleece open so that really helps to cut out extraneous light
> 
> so now I am standing like a flashing gorilla in the boat
> 
> the zoom is all but useless on the boat so you need to get frighteningly close to the thing you are filming.
> 
> These cheapo tripods cost less than one of those all but useless guerilla pod things.
> 
> I extend the tripod and bungee it to the pushpit or pull pit. I can also bungee it to a paddle or boat hook to get some height.
> 
> As for wind noise - another top tip
> 
> after you have finished those lovely shots of the boat pwering through rough weather just hold the camera out of the wind - down in the cockpit or under the spray hood and record some wild track - all the boat noises without the wind
> 
> then in the edit you can slide the clean boat noise under the boat noises that have been compromised by the wind hitting the mike diaphragm.
> 
> I offer these because I like looking at blokes sailing to places I will never visit.
> 
> D
> 
> Please, please could some-one make some nice films about the chespeake -v willing to hit the paypal button on those.


 I've got a gopro but have had limited success with any but the most mundane filming on my boat, all of my "action" sequences have been plagued with some of the very issues you have annotated. I believe that your "tips" will give me a chance to be a little more adventuresome in my filming. Thank you very much.


----------



## amwbox

Hopped onto Patreon to see how much La Vagabonde is pulling down these days... $7,141 per video. And they drop one each week. If they can keep it up, thats up to $370,000 per year before tax and patreon's cut etc. And ignoring the youtube revenue, which also has to be more than a little.

That's pretty serious money to be paid to cruise the trades with a perfect 10.


----------



## titustiger27

amwbox said:


> Hopped onto Patreon to see how much La Vagabonde is pulling down these days... $7,141 per video. And they drop one each week. If they can keep it up, thats up to $370,000 per year before tax and patreon's cut etc. And ignoring the youtube revenue, which also has to be more than a little.
> 
> That's pretty serious money to be paid to cruise the trades with a perfect 10.


first off they don't make 52 videos in a year.. but they could

It is a quality one, actually so slick I tend to not watch it that often

that said as good as it is I get the couple make less in a year, than Snooki makes for three appearance fees..

That that is it is reality tv

On the other hand-- the attractive couple on Monday Never (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk7fx_UC6Zjv08gc6OdCXuw)
makes $424 a video
they will make 26 or 27 in a year ($11,448 to cruise with a California dime)


----------



## titustiger27

and if you are only watching sailing vlogs to look at women

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_jbs62tQQvdZ2udNHU3ADA/videos

they have made six in this year.. basically so you can look at the blonde.
and their Patreon is $15 a video

mentioned this in another post
*https://sailing-channels.com/by-upload*

great resource for sailing videos.


----------



## amwbox

Think of it this way...they are getting PAID to cruise...something the rest of us burn obscene amounts of money on. And they are literally profitable at it. Even if they are pulling down only half their potential...that's still huge considering that the whole thing is usually a massive financial loss.

We're doing it wrong.

In the case of la vagabonde...its not like it was planned. Some dude bought a boat in the Med and planned to sail it back to Australia. Ran into this girl along the way. So they started making vids because why the hell not. And then...$$$. Score. You can tell from the earlier vids the guy was irritated with dealing with the camera stuff...but after the best money of his life started rolling in...waaay enthusiastic lol. _Listen_ to the female ones. They _think_ harder.


----------



## titustiger27

a few things here: Originally, and during the recording, Riley has worked on an oil rig to finance La Vag -- or at least that is what is pointed out in the videos.

They have 195,563 subscribers...and 959 patrons... so while they have lots of people paying.. they have a lot of people who don't.. many more that don't. I don't, but always enjoy the product they put out

They put out a good product.

There is no doubt that they get to do what a lot of people want to do.. remember they don't get paid up front to do what some say they want to do, they get rewarded by supporters and not everyone who does this gets rewarded.

Remember not everyone makes what they do.. like so many on youtube, for every La Vag, there is an Accidental Sailor Girl.. with 7,102 subscribers 15 patrons and $27 a video.

There is a reason why they are getting rewarded, more importantly they are cruising. and I am not: We are different. A lot of people want to do this.. most do nothing to make it happen

There are a lot of things in the world that happen because of luck.. and most success has some luck involved. But I have seen few people who are successful, that didn't work hard... reality tv stars break that mold to some extent, but even they work to a goal.

Sailing Uma is a good example of hard work.. but also, this couple is amazingly talented. They don't list how much they make per video, but their next goal is: $473.08 of $500.00 per month.. From what I have seen of thise two... they could make that much a day, by giving up sailing.

Without the doubt the saying: "If it was easy, everyone would be doing it." is sort of true here, because it is easy and lots of people are doing it. What is true, it is not easy to make money.. and to take the few that are actually making some money, and not look at all that do not is not fair.

Take the top sailing vlogs (https://sailing-channels.com/by-subscribers) they are either not really personal (i.e. America's Cup) and use the videos to promote, more than to profit. If you go don't that list, the patreon is more about a community than profit. In that community, you move down't the list and you can' actually have a conversation with the vloggers.. they know you and you know them.

in the end, if you think you could be making a ton of job.. in anything quit your day job (and the benefits) and do it. I am betting you are more likely to be making $100 a video than $7,000

But if you do it because it is your passion, your profit margin will be rewarded in the journey.


----------



## Arcb

I have a minor sailing related YouTube channel. Nothing fancy, got my camera for free with air miles, I use YouTube editor for my editing and it shows, plus I have no training or experience in filmography and it shows, but I still get a few views.

My videos are monetized with ad sense I did not do this to make money, it's more like going to the casino, a few extra dollars for fun, my ad revenues average a couple of dollars a month.

The reason I started my channel was for information sharing. I was researching a new heating system for my boat. I could find almost nothing on the internet on sailboat heating systems. I posed the question on another boating forum, the only one I knew of at the time and got the regular answers you would expect- basically if I didn't have $8000 readily available in my checking account to spend on a top of the line heating system, then I didn't deserve to sail. That wasn't helpful.


Then I started to get hits on my google search on YouTube. It was by far the best information I could find. Real people, not necessarily poor- but certainly not rich were doing gear reviews, badly lit videos with bad audio on inexpensive boating equipment that the yachting industry at large wasn't promoting because it was inexpensive stuff.

I got a safe effective heating system for $222 which significantly increased my cruising season.

That's when I decided to make some sailing videos, of a working guy with a family and an old boat, out there on the water, sailing just like the guys with big million dollaryachts. The first video was on the heating system I bought. I felt there needed to be a counterbalance on the internet to the ideal that only rich people could go sailing. Asking other working guys for donations to my channel would be pretty counter productive to it's philosophy.

An observation I have made about some of the more successful channels, is sailing is a back drop or a stage for presenting T and A in beautiful locations. I certainly wouldn't donate my money to those types, they're doing better then me already. 

In some cases I've even seen production quality and T and A increase while the content quality decreases after the channel starts getting really successful. When profit becomes the primary driving force, profit steers the ship.

The kind of content I'm interested in generally shouldn't need to be funded by private citizens, because it's just dudes, guys and gals who liked sailing before YouTube ever came along and are just sharing their experiences and sharing information. I do give likes and positive comments to content as much as I can though.


----------



## Minnewaska

I think the Patreon totals may be a bit misleading. The subscriber not only chooses an amount per video, but also a max (either per month or some other). I bet the max is not considered, when seeing those totals. The flashy totals are there to encourage others to give it a try and that seems to be working.

It's a fascinating study, which I think will continue to evolve. I suspect late adopters to have a different experience. One thing in favor of the youtube channel, is entertainment seems to be heading toward paying for specific content, rather than subscription packages, with tons of channels one doesn't watch. On the other hand, if these youtube channels start putting out serious revenue, commercial enterprise is going to crush the DIY vids.

Interesting to follow.


----------



## Minnewaska

Despite the money that it appears channels, such as LaVagabond or SV Delos, are seeming to make, I highly doubt they are either sustainable for a lifetime, nor fully responsible ways to ensure a retirement one day. I think one of the attractions of these channels is the fantasy many have (me too) of what it would be like to drop it all and sail away. Both of these crews are doing that. Once they are 60, they won't look any different than any other retired cruiser, so what would be the atraction? What then? Did they save for a retirement? Do they have health care? Are they one disability away from losing everything? Not sure.


----------



## Bleemus

Arcb said:


> I have a minor sailing related YouTube channel. Nothing fancy, got my camera for free with air miles, I use YouTube editor for my editing and it shows, plus I have no training or experience in filmography and it shows, but I still get a few views.
> 
> My videos are monetized with ad sense I did not do this to make money, it's more like going to the casino, a few extra dollars for fun, my ad revenues average a couple of dollars a month.
> 
> The reason I started my channel was for information sharing. I was researching a new heating system for my boat. I could find almost nothing on the internet on sailboat heating systems. I posed the question on another boating forum, the only one I knew of at the time and got the regular answers you would expect- basically if I didn't have $8000 readily available in my checking account to spend on a top of the line heating system, then I didn't deserve to sail. That wasn't helpful.
> 
> Then I started to get hits on my google search on YouTube. It was by far the best information I could find. Real people, not necessarily poor- but certainly not rich were doing gear reviews, badly lit videos with bad audio on inexpensive boating equipment that the yachting industry at large wasn't promoting because it was inexpensive stuff.
> 
> I got a safe effective heating system for $222 which significantly increased my cruising season.
> 
> That's when I decided to make some sailing videos, of a working guy with a family and an old boat, out there on the water, sailing just like the guys with big million dollaryachts. The first video was on the heating system I bought. I felt there needed to be a counterbalance on the internet to the ideal that only rich people could go sailing. Asking other working guys for donations to my channel would be pretty counter productive to it's philosophy.
> 
> An observation I have made about some of the more successful channels, is sailing is a back drop or a stage for presenting T and A in beautiful locations. I certainly wouldn't donate my money to those types, they're doing better then me already.
> 
> In some cases I've even seen production quality and T and A increase while the content quality decreases after the channel starts getting really successful. When profit becomes the primary driving force, profit steers the ship.
> 
> The kind of content I'm interested in generally shouldn't need to be funded by private citizens, because it's just dudes, guys and gals who liked sailing before YouTube ever came along and are just sharing their experiences and sharing information. I do give likes and positive comments to content as much as I can though.


What is your channel? I have a friend who wants to add heat to his boat before fall.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Arcb

Bleemus, I'm new to the channel so I'm not sure how to quote, or if I even have permission to yet.

But the heater is just an Origo 5100 alcohol heater, cheap and safe. You're not cruising to high latitudes with it, but if you're just looking to take spring or autumn chill off it works pretty well.

Again, I'm not sure if I can link yet, but the channel is Arc Brute- Travel By Water.


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## titustiger27

Arcb said:


> Bleemus, I'm new to the channel so I'm not sure how to quote, or if I even have permission to yet.
> 
> But the heater is just an Origo 5100 alcohol heater, cheap and safe. You're not cruising to high latitudes with it, but if you're just looking to take spring or autumn chill off it works pretty well.
> 
> Again, I'm not sure if I can link yet, but the channel is Arc Brute- Travel By Water.


Not sure what you mean to have permission...?

When you are ready to promote it more, make sure you get

https://sailing-channels.com/by-upload

to link you


----------



## mbianka

titustiger27 said:


> and if you are only watching sailing vlogs to look at women
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_jbs62tQQvdZ2udNHU3ADA/videos
> 
> they have made six in this year.. basically so you can look at the blonde.
> and their Patreon is $15 a video
> 
> mentioned this in another post
> *https://sailing-channels.com/by-upload*
> 
> great resource for sailing videos.


I've seen that type of dancing she does in video one. Usually in bars where you don't take dates. Drinks there might have been $15 too!


----------



## mbianka

Minnewaska said:


> Despite the money that it appears channels, such as LaVagabond or SV Delos, are seeming to make, I highly doubt they are either sustainable for a lifetime, nor fully responsible ways to ensure a retirement one day. I think one of the attractions of these channels is the fantasy many have (me too) of what it would be like to drop it all and sail away. Both of these crews are doing that. Once they are 60, they won't look any different than any other retired cruiser, so what would be the atraction? What then? Did they save for a retirement? Do they have health care? Are they one disability away from losing everything? Not sure.


Good points I hope they are investing for the future. I have put up a few videos on my You Tube channel but, they were never expected to be revenue producers. I just enjoy doing it and hopefully helping others learn as I have from others. I do enjoy the s/v Delos videos. They seem to do well revenue wise and have a lot of fun. A good combination of sailing, repairing and good looking crew. But, IMO they are still working when they produce the vids. They do have several crew who can take videos while others are doing tasks like sailing the boat etc... This certainly makes it easier to get footage as compared to solo sailors like me. But, then it still has to be edited. I recently saw one of theirs where they showed a couple of the crew who were working on editing a new video. All looked bleary eyed and tired after five hours staring at the laptop editing down below in the cabin. Meanwhile I spend most of my days swimming off the boat or in the cockpit watching the Osprey work the harbor for food. Much better than staring at the editing screen for hours IMO. Even if I do have to pay the boat expenses myself. Time is the valuable commodity in ones life and having the freedom to enjoy it as ones sees fit is priceless.


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## amwbox

Minnewaska said:


> Despite the money that it appears channels, such as LaVagabond or SV Delos, are seeming to make, I highly doubt they are either sustainable for a lifetime, nor fully responsible ways to ensure a retirement one day. I think one of the attractions of these channels is the fantasy many have (me too) of what it would be like to drop it all and sail away. Both of these crews are doing that. Once they are 60, they won't look any different than any other retired cruiser, so what would be the atraction? What then? Did they save for a retirement? Do they have health care? Are they one disability away from losing everything? Not sure.


We're all one bad day from losing everything. These people are young enough, who cares. They've got their whole lives to be salary slaves watching their portfolio and sitting in the slip watching others sail away.

What happens "then" is that they've already done what most of probably won't get around to. And they did it when they were young enough to really enjoy it....and managed to make some bucks in the process. That's the difference. Those are the points they've got up on all us "responsible" people who might be hampered by circumstance and never actually get on with it. 

If you're unattached and don't have people depending on you...go for it. If you're buried under a mortgage and you have kids to support...that's another story. But if not....well we can't take it with us. We're all dying no matter what we do. Be a captain of industry, be a janitor, or spend a few years cruising during your prime "earn money-pay taxes" years...doesn't matter. We're all ending up taking the same dirt nap.

I think its commendable, honestly, to be out doing things. At least the rest of us get to watch.


----------



## titustiger27

mbianka said:


> I've seen that type of dancing she does in video one. Usually in bars where you don't take dates. Drinks there might have been $15 too!


I have a problem with women being objects over people.

In La Vag ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZdQjaSoLjIzFnWsDQOv4ww/videos ), Elayna is not just a pretty face. I think she is the one who does most of the video work (recording and editing) As well as she performing music.

But where to draw the line.. Most people wanting to record their sailing (and putting out a call for funding) are young and healthy....


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## aeventyr60

^Who wants to see old farts sailing? Gives those bitter old dudes something to do beside watch fox news


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## titustiger27

If this was 1969 and there was a travel show that weekly chronicled the life of cruisers.. it would be watched some, no one would get rich. Some viewers would dream of the lifestyle (Then Came Bronson), some would watch for the views and some would hope to see attractive bodies. I am sure not all of the people who watched "Flipper" liked looking at dolphins

Many of the vloggers are young people who are not making money, but using their savings.. or working as they go (Accidental Sailor Girl). And there are some who are retired. 

The retirees are not be beautiful people and yo could say that is why they don’t make money off the vlogging. ..One of the reasons they don’t make money.. is their videos often are not that good and the come out sporadically. And they make a point of making videos not to make money. That is the reason their made the videos to begin with is either to document their experience (Sailing Nervous) or to let their family know they are alive (LeaLea)

The thing I notice about the videos is Cruising is hard, expensive and while it has rewards.. is dangerous.

I don't know if many of the vloggers are investing for a future... I know when I was in my 20's and going to concerts, I wasn't investing in a future.. A lot of people live life...not invest for it in the future

Or their investment is a side project, to write a book (An Embarrassment of Mangoes).

There are all those quotes, ‘live today, die tomorrow’ ‘do live a life of regretting what you should have done’

I read, not long a go, one of the ways to keep your mind from aging is to give it a challenge. (learn French..or how to fix a diesel motor), so maybe older people should take up sailing, video editing.. risking their savings, learn to fix an outboard dinghy motor 20 times.


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## xort

Producing good video is time consuming. I doubt vagabond can generate a new episode every week. Every 2 weeks continuously would be a lot.

The Shards have been doing VERY well with their tele series. I'm sure they dont do 52 episodes per year, max 26 and maybe only 13 per year. And they do some of the finishing at an edit house in Toronto.


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## Minnewaska

amwbox said:


> We're all one bad day from losing everything.


If that bad day included dying, I agree. However, becoming disabled or extraordinarily ill, which prevents being able to make a living, is substantially more likely, when you're the age of Delos or the LaVag crew.

There is no reason to lose everything, as a result. Unless, you are not properly insured. I suspect they aren't.



> I think its commendable, honestly, to be out doing things. At least the rest of us get to watch.


Me too. As long as you don't come back and have to live off the social programs that the mortgage and kid bound folks paid for. Otherwise, I'm envious.


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## Sal Paradise

mbianka said:


> I've seen that type of dancing she does in video one. Usually in bars where you don't take dates. Drinks there might have been $15 too!


I dont know, but she brightened up my dreary day sitting in the office as I administer contracts and write specs. :laugh


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## xort

These people should be safely locked in their cubicles. How dare they venture out into the world of non-conformity.

I'd bet Tom and Mel Neale didnt have much at all when they went cruising in a 30' boat with one girl and another on the way. Now they own a 55' boat BECAUSE they went out there in the big bad world and made it happen.

Way to many think success is only allowed for college educated, properly vetted careerists. I started with nothing, dropped out of art school to work for myself and am now living comfortably in EARLY retirement.

I remember when conformity was a dirty word. Now, that generation of non-conformists are pushing conformity in all aspects of life. "You are entitled to your opinion, as long as it agrees with mine".


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## aeventyr60

*Me too. As long as you don't come back and have to live off the social programs that the mortgage and kid bound folks paid for. Otherwise, I'm envious.
*

WTF social programs would anybody come back to the USA for? What a joke.


----------



## Vernon Deck

What they definitely will have is years of experiences that the other 99% will never have. Going sailing once you're retired and doing it while young like La Vag and Delos are 2 very different things. Good on them and who cares about whether they're saving for later, they seem all very resourceful people and things always work out for such people.


----------



## Sal Paradise

A very interesting thread Minnewaska. 

I haven't contributed, but I think I am ready to start contributing to a couple of the better done projects. What has held it back I think is - it is a different model from what we are used to. 

The idea of voting with a few dollars to encourage this type of media project which benefits me as a (dreamer) sailor seems like the way to think about it. Also in general I have admiration for cruisers so I feel guilty that I don't at least kick in a few bucks for people who are really putting out the effort. So I guess that is the positive feedback loop others are talking about. Oddly, I really mind the few people who keep nagging about Patreon or are just trying to be a poorly done talk show.

Not too concerned about judging the sustainability of the lifestyle. We probably don't have enough information to even guess. Also, this lifestyle can't be easy, so anyone capable enough to pull this off on the level of say Delos is probably more than competent enough to achieve a productive life in the future. In any case, it isn't my responsibility.

It seems to be a rule that bikinis in the preview really ups the view counts.


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## Minnewaska

I think the early adopters, as usual, are going to have an edge on generating revenue from self-documentaries. As word of the few success stories continues to spread, the field will likely become grossly over populated (if it isn't already). YouTube suggests a new sailing related channel to me every day. Those I subscribe to were probably 50/50 Patreon, now they are 100%.

A new phenom lately is I have started to unsubscribe to some channels, as I add new. Competition.


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## Donna_F

xort said:


> Producing good video is time consuming. I doubt vagabond can generate a new episode every week. Every 2 weeks continuously would be a lot.
> 
> The Shards have been doing VERY well with their tele series. I'm sure they dont do 52 episodes per year, max 26 and maybe only 13 per year. And they do some of the finishing at an edit house in Toronto.


I have followed them since they were dropping video onto the old Lats and Atts site and purchased all of their seasons. I believe I did hear him say in a podcast interview that they now have the equipment to be able to do their entire production from the boat.


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## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> I think the early adopters, as usual, are going to have an edge on generating revenue from self-documentaries. As word of the few success stories continues to spread, the field will likely become grossly over populated (if it isn't already). YouTube suggests a new sailing related channel to me every day. Those I subscribe to were probably 50/50 Patreon, now they are 100%.
> 
> A new phenom lately is I have started to unsubscribe to some channels, as I add new. Competition.


I agree for the most part on early adpoters, though I suspect there might be a little of what happens with Americans on new sports.. ones they create -- King of the snowboard.. get it into the Olympics and other countries see what is done right... and get better.

I don't subscribe, but I do look at the long list and stop watching some.. or not look at others, since I feel I have spent enough time on what I watch already


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## mbianka

titustiger27 said:


> I agree for the most part on early adpoters, though I suspect there might be a little of what happens with Americans on new sports.. ones they create -- King of the snowboard.. get it into the Olympics and other countries see what is done right... and get better.
> 
> I don't subscribe, but I do look at the long list and stop watching some.. or not look at others, since I feel I have spent enough time on what I watch already


I find them helpful to get through winters here in the Northeast or until I head off for a winter charter. I also like to compare their experiences with places I have also cruised or serve as reconnaissance to some places I might want to visit or avoid in the future. One or two is enough to subscribe for my purposes but, I do glance at others as they pop up from time to time. I try to save them for winter viewing as I'm on my own boat this time of year enjoying my own experiences. As it should be.


----------



## xort

Donna_F said:


> I have followed them since they were dropping video onto the old Lats and Atts site and purchased all of their seasons. I believe I did hear him say in a podcast interview that they now have the equipment to be able to do their entire production from the boat.


I talked to Sheryl last month, they were on their way to T O to do some finishing. I suspect he does most on the boat but has an edit house do the finishing touches...but thats just an educated guess


----------



## titustiger27

mbianka said:


> I find them helpful to get through winters here in the Northeast or until I head off for a winter charter. I also like to compare their experiences with places I have also cruised or serve as reconnaissance to some places I might want to visit or avoid in the future. One or two is enough to subscribe for my purposes but, I do glance at others as they pop up from time to time. I try to save them for winter viewing as I'm on my own boat this time of year enjoying my own experiences. As it should be.


Since I haven't I compare them with each other.. I think how each deal with the swimming pigs is interesting.

Since I to to https://sailing-channels.com/by-upload at least once a day, I tend to not subscribe, mostly because I get the notice a day or two later


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## Skyeterrier

The problem I see is that cheap or low effort videos made by people with little or no expectation of money get lumped together with the superior efforts.

I became aware of Dylan's Keep Turning Left videos due to sailing forums like this and from what little I've seen they seem on a different tier from the huge majority of what's out there on Youtube, sailing or otherwise. Films with that quality of production value and content seem like they could be sold to and broadcast on a TV channel, they are way better than most of what I see flipping around on cable TV. KTL could easily occupy a niche on a travel or history oriented channel, but I've learned reading this thread that Dylan used to have a deal with BBC but got canceled. Oh well.


----------



## Minnewaska

Skyeterrier said:


> ....Films with that quality of production value and content seem like they could be sold to and broadcast on a TV channel, they are way better than most of what I see flipping around on cable TV. KTL could easily occupy a niche on a travel or history oriented channel, but I've learned reading this thread that Dylan used to have a deal with BBC but got canceled. Oh well.


The problem is that sailing is an extremely niche market. It's hard for sailors to recognize, because we hang out with each other, or congregate in areas where we find the others.

On YouTube, LaVagabond currently has about 200,000 subscribers, while SV Delos has about 115,000.

I stumbled upon a channel, where some dude disassembles stuff in his kitchen to show what's inside and he had 3.5 million subscribers!!

Major media just can't make a go of it, with sailing content. On Patreon, LaVag is current showing $7k per vid and SV Delos about $5k per vid (again likely subject to limits).

That's pretty good money for a cruiser (in less expensive parts of the globe anyway), but probably not enough to get broadcast media attention.

One of the Delos vids, from the Indonesia area, talked about them spending about $125 per crew, per week, for all variable expenses: food, booze, fuel, fees. That's a very inexpensive part of the world, but it certainly leaves a few bucks left over for standing rigging (which they also had to replace along the way).


----------



## rkinross

I think La Vagabonde is a very good sailing channel and enjoy watching it. I also like SV Delos. If these people can make money on it more power to them. A lot of work goes into the editing and filming so I think they deserve something.


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## ianjoub

My thought: I don't mind a few seconds on the screen or mention of a donation. If they get to where the 'give us money' interrupts the flow of the 'show', then I will not watch.


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## Minnewaska

rkinross said:


> .... If these people can make money on it more power to them......


For sure.

Curious if you support any of these channels financially. Why or why not?


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## Minnewaska

ianjoub said:


> My thought: I don't mind a few seconds on the screen or mention of a donation. If they get to where the 'give us money' interrupts the flow of the 'show', then I will not watch.


Some channels have actually made an episode dedicated to their Patreon rollout. I agree, that's too much. I have no objections to a subtle ask either.

Some do ask too hard or too much. Delos "buy us a beer" is a nice subtle touch.

I've also noticed a new technique, to invite Patreon supporters to come along on the cruise for a period. Good marketing. I'll have to see what my wife thinks about having a stranger along for a month.


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## titustiger27

Basically sailing vlogs are reality tv. Albeit it less 'real' thank what is put on commercial tv. That is because when you watch "Real World" or "survivor" those have certain structures (casting personalities that don't get along).

One similarity.. you don't really have to pay for the show itself. Someone you have to buy the *way* to watch them, you need a tv or computer, you need internet or cable to get them.

Sailing Vlogs and others are asking for you to donate --- after the show and the more successful ones are getting to the point where they have product placement.

Most everything has product placement now a days.. and probably always did.

In the end I don't know if "The Real Housewives of _SomeCity_" could survive on donations. And Most all the videos discussed here do not either. They are (almost) all (I think) self-funded to begin with.


----------



## Minnewaska

The self-funded point is very interesting. There is one channel, where there is no way they fund via their vids. They have a small Patreon following and seemingly a couple of sponsors, but they live aboard full time and never seem to work (other than the vids). It's been a decade or more. 

Others, like LaVag, were clear that he worked before buying the boat. Still, for someone that age to buy a boat like that requires massive savings, a loan, or a benefactor. I suspect many "came into" a few bucks from a family member to seed the journey.

Finally, Delos was one of the few that made it pretty clear. He quit his job and borrowed the money to buy the boat, assuming the adventure would last two years. At that point, he ran out of money and did return to work. It was only this second round, where I think the vid dollars serious extended the kitty.


----------



## Arcb

For sure, there is no doubt in my mind that anybody, that already has a University degree, which isn't cheap, and is sailing around the South Pacific in a half million dollar Yacht in their 20's, not working, for years on end, sorounded by pretty young women, was born with a few dollars.

I suspect being born wealthy is the only path to this kind of life style. Donations from subscribers back in the US is just icing on the cake. 

Thats why I thought the comments from the guy who thinks they are going to drain Americas vast social programs were a little bit humorous. I don't imagine these kids would ever really need to work a day on their life and they'll be just fine.

I sailed around doing not much in my 20's too, but it was always on other people's boats, either working on yachts or volunteering on tall ships, but the idea of funding the purchase and operation of yachts that size without help seems pretty unlikely to me.


----------



## titustiger27

Arcb said:


> For sure, there is no doubt in my mind that anybody, that already has a University degree, which isn't cheap, and is sailing around the South Pacific in a half million dollar Yacht in their 20's, not working, for years on end, sorounded by pretty young women, was born with a few dollars.
> 
> I suspect being born wealthy is the only path to this kind of life style. Donations from subscribers back in the US is just icing on the cake.
> 
> Thats why I thought the comments from the guy who thinks they are going to drain Americas vast social programs were a little bit humorous. I don't imagine these kids would ever really need to work a day on their life and they'll be just fine.
> 
> I sailed around doing not much in my 20's too, but it was always on other people's boats, either working on yachts or volunteering on tall ships, but the idea of funding the purchase and operation of yachts that size without help seems pretty unlikely to me.


There are certainly a segment of sailors that fit this category.. but it would be filled with 20 somethings and 50 somethings.

But if you look at the olympics, most everyone that takes the podium had a pretty good lifestyle.

The American dream of you can make it no matter what is true, but many things are easier to achieve if you can afford a boat.

I've noticed the wealth factor to many of the vlogs.. but in their defense.. many are intelligent and talented. They would be better off (financially)not sailing. Take Sailing Uma (I think I mentioned this before). I think they would be making a pretty good living as graphic designers or inventing an electric motor for sailboats

That said, there are also some that are not so wealthy. who might be one reef away from the social network.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> The self-funded point is very interesting. There is one channel, where there is no way they fund via their vids. They have a small Patreon following and seemingly a couple of sponsors, but they live aboard full time and never seem to work (other than the vids). It's been a decade or more.
> 
> Others, like LaVag, were clear that he worked before buying the boat. Still, for someone that age to buy a boat like that requires massive savings, a loan, or a benefactor. I suspect many "came into" a few bucks from a family member to seed the journey.
> 
> Finally, Delos was one of the few that made it pretty clear. He quit his job and borrowed the money to buy the boat, assuming the adventure would last two years. At that point, he ran out of money and did return to work. It was only this second round, where I think the vid dollars serious extended the kitty.


The guy on Delos is clearly a business man. He still works with the business he started (or did the last time I watched a couple months ago). Also, anyone on his boat has to pay their way. Often the crew is leaving to earn money so they can come back.


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## Minnewaska

Arcb said:


> ....
> 
> I suspect being born wealthy is the only path to this kind of life style. Donations from subscribers back in the US is just icing on the cake.


That might be true for those we see in 6 figure boats, but there are vastly more that go out on ninth agate less expensive than many automobiles.



> Thats why I thought the comments from the guy who thinks they are going to drain Americas vast social programs were a little bit humorous.


That point was misunderstood, but wasn't worth arguing, given the nasty responses.

It is often said, "go now". I think many do. They get by on whatever they saved and live day to day. The problem is what happens if they become disabled and/or pass their earning years and have nothing left. There are social programs that would keep them alive, but that wasn't really the point. I know this happens to some cruisers. I know one in particular. They had a great time, right up until they couldn't.


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## ianjoub

Minnewaska said:


> It is often said, "go now". I think many do. *They get by on whatever they saved and live day to day. The problem is what happens if they become disabled and/or pass their earning years and have nothing left. * There are social programs that would keep them alive, but that wasn't really the point. I know this happens to some cruisers. I know one in particular. They had a great time, right up until they couldn't.


I suspect that happens in all walks of life, not just cruising.


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## Arcb

Minnewaska said:


> That might be true for those we see in 6 figure boats, but there are vastly more that go out on ninth agate less expensive than many automobiles.
> 
> That point was misunderstood, but wasn't worth arguing, given the nasty responses.
> 
> It is often said, "go now". I think many do. They get by on whatever they saved and live day to day. The problem is what happens if they become disabled and/or pass their earning years and have nothing left. There are social programs that would keep them alive, but that wasn't really the point. I know this happens to some cruisers. I know one in particular. They had a great time, right up until they couldn't.


You're probably right, I live in a place where social programs are for everybody, not just for the poor. I can see how it might be frustrating for a somebody if they had to pay for their own health care while somebody else got theirs for free.

Can you recommend any of these real shoe string channels? I have trouble relating to the big yachts in the South Pacific etc. but some regular dude trying to round Cape Horn in a Grampian 23, I might pay some sponsorship dollars to see that. That's proper entertainment.


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## Minnewaska

Arcb said:


> ....Can you recommend any of these real shoe string channels? I have trouble relating to the big yachts in the South Pacific etc..


Don't have a link handy (remote at the moment). If you dig through the most recent months of Delos vids, they interview a cruising family that wrote a book on raising kids aboard. They say they live on $1,500 per month, including various insurance, but were also the ones that referenced not having anything for retirement. I'm trying to recall if they have their one YouTube channel.

DrakeParagon, a member here, seems to live a frugal lifestyle and has a channel. However, must have some historic access to resources, because he never talks about working or finances.

Wicked Salty were a couple of kids that saved and went to the Bahamas on a small boat. They did come home, when the money ran out. They're trying to crowdsource money to buy a new boat.

There are several others I can't do off the top of my head.


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## Minnewaska

ianjoub said:


> I suspect that happens in all walks of life, not just cruising.


Sure does. The issue is whether one should volunteer for the exposure. Cruising on your last dime is optional.

To be clear, I'm fine with everyone making their own choice.


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## ianjoub

Minnewaska said:


> To be clear, I'm fine with everyone making their own choice.


I agree. My problem is theft at gunpoint to make others pay for it, ie. government.


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## Sal Paradise

ianjoub said:


> I agree. My problem is theft at gunpoint to make others pay for it, ie. government.


And my problem with that is all the things you've gotten and benefited from that others had to pay for never seems to come into the equation does it?


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## amwbox

ianjoub said:


> I agree. My problem is theft at gunpoint to make others pay for it, ie. government.


If you don't want to live in civilization, don't. Find a cave somewhere in Alaska and take your chances. Nothing ventured nothing gained.


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## amwbox

Sal Paradise said:


> And my problem with that is all the things you've gotten and benefited from that others had to pay for never seems to come into the equation does it?












:wink

Ahem.

/politics ****e.


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## aeventyr60

*Can you recommend any of these real shoe string channels? I have trouble relating to the big yachts in the South Pacific etc. but some regular dude trying to round Cape Horn in a Grampian 23, I might pay some sponsorship dollars to see that. That's proper entertainment.
*

These folks are out here, they lack the Narcissistic attributes of the video blog crowd, and are too proud to ask for funding from strangers. Nor are they willing to spend in inordinate amount of time fiddling around on a computer in paradise. Get out here and you will meet them.
Some incredible stories, only told in distant anchorages.


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## amwbox

If you want a boat channel without the bikini clad clickbait and gratuitous ass shots, try Mads on Sail Life. He's over in Denmark, done a nice restoration on a small Albin(?) and has since moved up to a 38 footer. Just him and his dog. Good quality videos.

https://www.youtube.com/user/madsdahlke


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## Arcb

Mads on Sail Life is a favourite of mine. 

I spent many years out exploring mostly on cheap, or other people's boats, but bringing a camera along never occurred to me. 

Getting out there and speaking to people at Anchorage's is no longer a viable option for me due to children and other responsibilities.

I do still sail of course, but I don't take too many risks or roam too far due to having children on board.


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## Minnewaska

amwbox said:


> If you want a boat channel without the bikini clad clickbait and gratuitous ass shots, try Mads on Sail Life. He's over in Denmark, done a nice restoration on a small Albin(?) and has since moved up to a 38 footer. Just him and his dog. Good quality videos.


I've subscribed to this channel for a while now. Seems like a very nice guy. It's more a restoration channel, than a cruising channel.

He may turn out to be the type that just likes rebuilding more than cruising. he tried to go along on a trans-Atlantic, but had to jump ship from seasickness.

Can't wish him anything but the best, nevertheless.


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## ianjoub

amwbox said:


> If you don't want to live in civilization, don't. Find a cave somewhere in Alaska and take your chances. Nothing ventured nothing gained.


What is civilized about people who won't take care of their family members and expect the government to do it?


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## amwbox

ianjoub said:


> What is civilized about people who won't take care of their family members and expect the government to do it?


I dunno? Why do some people put pineapple on pizza? Seems completely bonkers to me, to do that to a perfectly good pizza...but we all contain multitudes, don't we?


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## Arcb

I have just sat down and watched the first 38 episodes of Wicked Salty after reading the recommendation on this thread.

This is definitely the best cruising series I have seen by far. The guy doesn't objectify his girfreind at all, which is nice.

The detailed description of the voyage is fantastic. If I had a few extra bucks, which I don't, I would sponsor these folks.

This thread has definitely helped me find some great entertainment. Good job op for getting people thinking about the subject.


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## mbianka

Skyeterrier said:


> The problem I see is that cheap or low effort videos made by people with little or no expectation of money get lumped together with the superior efforts.
> 
> I became aware of Dylan's Keep Turning Left videos due to sailing forums like this and from what little I've seen they seem on a different tier from the huge majority of what's out there on Youtube, sailing or otherwise. Films with that quality of production value and content seem like they could be sold to and broadcast on a TV channel, they are way better than most of what I see flipping around on cable TV. KTL could easily occupy a niche on a travel or history oriented channel, but I've learned reading this thread that Dylan used to have a deal with BBC but got canceled. Oh well.


Quite true Dylan's efforts are very professional because that's what he did for a career. He was a professional cameraman. I watched the early s/vDelos videos and they were pretty basic travel clips of young people just having fun cruising. But, they became more professional and interesting as time went on. Until now they are almost like "must see" TV to see what they are up too on a weekly or semi weekly basis.

I was also thinking about the concerned comments people made about these younger folks saving for the future. It might not be that bad. A lot of these sailing videos are what is know in the TV business as "Evergreen" meaning that unlike say a political talk show they can always reach a new audience as people discover them. If they stop cruising and/or producing videos the new audience may still support them. Perhaps not as much as when they are actively producing new videos but, I'm sure they would not turn down free Internet money. Then of course there is the You Tube ads which add $ into the mix. Not as much as say Patron sponsorship but, nice to have.


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## Minnewaska

mbianka said:


> .....If they stop cruising and/or producing videos the new audience may still support them......


Sorry, I don't follow. If they're not making videos, what new audience is sending them money?


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## Minnewaska

Arcb said:


> I have just sat down and watched the first 38 episodes of Wicked Salty after reading the recommendation on this thread.
> 
> This is definitely the best cruising series I have seen by far. The guy doesn't objectify his girfreind at all, which is nice.
> 
> The detailed description of the voyage is fantastic. If I had a few extra bucks, which I don't, I would sponsor these folks.
> 
> This thread has definitely helped me find some great entertainment. Good job op for getting people thinking about the subject.


Glad you enjoyed it. Their site was definitely one of the experiences that motivated this thread. Here's my breakdown.

For me, I loved the vicarious sense of being their age again and thinking I could have made that trip. Including the amateurish ways they handled the boat or described things. Same as we all started out.

Their videography was generally horrible. Sometimes there is massive wind noise, poor editing, choppy, zooming or panning that could cause vertigo. I still loved the series, so it wasn't Dylan quality that was driving my choices, it seemed.

Their vids came out maybe months after the filming, not years.

Then they found Patreon. If I recall, it was after they completed their Bahamas trip. I may be off a bit. They had a dedicated rollout. They hope others help them buy their next boat.


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## mbianka

Minnewaska said:


> Sorry, I don't follow. If they're not making videos, what new audience is sending them money?


In the "old" media days video/film producers would go through a lot of hoops to get their programs "on the air" at networks or individual TV stations. Where they might be broadcast only once or twice. New media like YOU TUBE have allow producers (even amatuer ones) to provide content that never goes away. New viewers poking around YT or other video sites may discover the old videos and get hooked on watching them just as others have.


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## Minnewaska

mbianka said:


> In the "old" media days video/film producers would go through a lot of hoops to get their programs "on the air" at networks or individual TV stations. Where they might be broadcast only once or twice. New media like YOU TUBE have allow producers (even amatuer ones) to provide content that never goes away. New viewers poking around YT or other video sites may discover the old videos and get hooked on watching them just as others have.


Got it. Not sure YouTube or Patreon have a good system for any meaningful residual income. It's well understood that the advertising monetization is extremely small, especially for the relatively low volume of even the sailing channels with the highest views. Patreon, as I understand it, automates new content.

It would be interesting to see if someone can monetize older vids, like TV syndication does.


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## GeorgeB

What was the name of the guy who had that large ketch (that he called a schooner) which was down in Florida being refitted for some long distance cruising? He had a couple of schemes to make money, on of which were paid videos. I understood that he boat some editing equipment and the like. He had a couple of "how to do it" videos that were mildly entertaining. It seams he fell off the map while i was in Mexico last year and I'd like to know what he is up to, but I lost his name.


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## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> What was the name of the guy who had that large ketch (that he called a schooner) which was down in Florida being refitted for some long distance cruising? He had a couple of schemes to make money, on of which were paid videos. I understood that he boat some editing equipment and the like. He had a couple of "how to do it" videos that were mildly entertaining. It seams he fell off the map while i was in Mexico last year and I'd like to know what he is up to, but I lost his name.


Oh yeah. I remember that guy. Wasn't part of his user name "union" or something?


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## GeorgeB

Thanks for the memory jog Smack! It was “UnionPacific” and he has been inactive on this board since last fall. I took the liberty to check his YouTube and sailing blog and they have been inactive since last fall as well. You need to post content regularly and consistently if you expect people to pay for it. I saw that he is still posting to his face book and appears to be as petulant as ever. Too bad he no longer visits us here on Sailnet. I don’t know if this should be posted over at the “Quitting you job…” thread as well as a cautionary note. He is now saying that his date for casting off is now 51 months away. I thought that he was ten months away over a year ago? At the rate he’s going both you and I will be back to day sailing before he leaves the dock!


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## Jimmy Cricket

A few channels are very professional and packed with good content. Drake Paragon for example. other I watch are Sail Life , Life is like Sailing and SV Seeker etc where the ebegging is either low key or not there at all.
Really Bad channels are Lazy Gecko where we watch some girl with more breast than work ethic spawn a kid on aboat with no job while living on her husbands small pension from service. All the while we find out he has several more kids from an ex wife. How the heck is he going to educate the kids he has at 100 grand plus a year for college while spawning a second family while living on the dole. No I wont pay to see there videos which are half filled with ebegging or ads for there vimeo site while she insinuates that she will show you some nipple if you cough up 30 bucks for a 6 month sub to vimeo. Insane ebegging.

Another is Sailing Miss Lone Star. A channel where the man in the family is on "disability" from the service for PTSD...giant service dog and all. But they seem to be constantly self medicating with booze.
They are sloppy and unseamanlike which makes them fun to watch but the constant ebegging gets old especially since the money just goes for booze. I mean how much video from a gopro and phone while playing the victim can one pay for. Even there kids got offloaded to some relative while they party all summer.

Delos is high quality and they are selling a product to young 20-35 year olds of unending hedonism. This sells but the sailing part is minimal content compared to bare breasts barely hazed out to meet gudelines. Clearly they have Social media marketing down and are paying there way around with it. Good for them. Send them money? No not me but I do watch from time to time.

La Vagabond is a couple of young kids from Aussie. They try hard to be seamanlike , responsible eco-aware sailors. Yes the girl looks good in a swimsuit but the film quality is high and interesting and worthy of watching and paying for. The film quality is not as good as Drake Paragon but the episodes are faster moving with more travel.


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## amwbox

Well. I'm not out to judge or otherwise hate on people for their lifestyle choices. Its really none of my business. Its mostly a matter of do I or don't I enjoy the content. I'm not that into Miss Lonestar because, frankly, too much of it is interview style with the camera pointed at the crew. What I want to see is scenery, the boat, how the rig is trimmed, the sea state, maybe points of interest with little bits of info along the way, like Drake Paragon during their trip up the ICW. A little bit of flavor from the crew is fine now and then, but I'd prefer it to be the minority of the camera time. Sailing miss lonestar is just...camera pointed at her or him. Neither of which are IMO particularly interesting.

Shaun and Julia sailing is kind of a fun great lakes channel, with a neat little boat and a younger couple...but they've now gone the gratuitous "pimp my girlfriend's ass and tits for clicks" route and I think its a bit gross. But hey, it works.

Honestly...what I'd like to see is something that focuses extensively on passage making, with very little talking head stuff, and less focus on the destinations. I know, I know, most would consider the expanse of the sea itself boring compared to the beaches and bikinis and palm trees. Or at least different destinations!

How many channels are focused on some form of tropical island or other? Its almost always either the Pacific or the Carib/Gulf. Maybe Mexico, as is the case so far on S/V Prism. (Another great channel, btw. They deserve more subscribers. As does Adventure Adrift. Both of these are relatively new.) But how about the North Atlantic? Iceland, Ireland, the UK, Norway...even up into the Baltics? Maybe the West coast of France and Spain/Portugal? That would all be MUCH more interesting to me than....more palm trees.

Which leads us back to Drake Paragon...by far the most interesting channel simply by virtue of not chasing the heat, and instead going North. Unfortunately, Drake Paragon has been stalled in Boston for literally _months_, milking it heavily, and I don't know about you guys but I care even less about Boston than I do Ft. Lauderdale. Bring on Canada, Drake! Greenland! Iceland! Ireland! Scotland! At this rate it will be years before we get to see any of the stuff we signed up for.


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## Landwalker

amwbox said:


> Shaun and Julia sailing is kind of a fun great lakes channel, with a neat little boat and a younger couple...but they've now gone the gratuitous "pimp my girlfriend's ass and tits for clicks" route and I think its a bit gross. But hey, it works.


Yeah, I liked their videos early on, but have been pretty "meh" on them as they go along. Between the reduced focus on the actual sailing and the tendency to gratuitously wax philosophical, it's kind of turned me off.

I do enjoy Gone with the Wynns, though, even though it isn't sailing-heavy-probably because Jason and Nikki are in pretty much the same zero-experience place, sailing-wise, that I am (or at least they were, and now they're blowing by me...), and because they don't muck around with either philosophy or gratuitous butts. Not that I don't like butts. But I can get butts plenty of places.

Gone with the Wynns is also nice because there are ways for me to support them without just donating money. They have a referrer-arrangement with Amazon that is structured in such a way that, as long as I start out going through their link, they get a referral bonus for anything I buy on Amazon. So if I'm buying things on Amazon anyway, it's an easy way to throw them a (very small) bone without anything coming out of my pocket in the bargain.



amwbox said:


> How many channels are focused on some form of tropical island or other? Its almost always either the Pacific or the Carib/Gulf. Maybe Mexico, as is the case so far on S/V Prism. (Another great channel, btw. They deserve more subscribers. As does Adventure Adrift. Both of these are relatively new.) But how about the North Atlantic? Iceland, Ireland, the UK, Norway...even up into the Baltics? Maybe the West coast of France and Spain/Portugal? That would all be MUCH more interesting to me than....more palm trees.


I'll have to check out S/V Prism and Adventure Adrift. I'm always up for new sailing channels to binge-watch if the flavor appeals to me.


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## jmiller248

I have watched a ton of videos from various folks. I am like others about the T&A and not a big fan of it being a selling point. I do like Delos and probably is my fav with Vagabond, Prism running second. Adventure Adrift is in there somewhere. I have donated to Keep Turning Left as i really enjoyed his videos, but nothing new lately.

I just started watching Erik Aanderaa. Videos are not super and sometimes I can't here his voice due to wind. I just like his videos. There are not many, but hoping to see more. He does a lot of sailing and gets some awesome quad/drone shots. I'll see where he takes it. His saying is No Bullsh*t Just Sailing. Maybe that's why I like it .


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## titustiger27

I have no problem with attractive people... Even older (Amy- Sailing Nervous)

But I agree with the comments about Shaun & Julia Sailing. It is one of the few I have contributed to.. but.. I don't know, objectifying your girlfriend... I was going to comment in the comment section of one of their more recent videos, but didn't want to seem pervy..

What is a little confusing.. is it being done to promote the channel or is Shaun so in love that he doesn't realize his fawning is a little too far.


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## amwbox

jmiller248 said:


> I just started watching Erik Aanderaa. Videos are not super and sometimes I can't here his voice due to wind. I just like his videos. There are not many, but hoping to see more. He does a lot of sailing and gets some awesome quad/drone shots. I'll see where he takes it. His saying is No Bullsh*t Just Sailing. Maybe that's why I like it .


Agreed. He doesn't spend much time on destinations, and goofy antics/frolicking on beaches, etc...he just points the camera at the sea and boat and maybe the coastlines. I really like his style.

Like when he did the tour of his boat, he didn't do it while tied at the dock with everything all calm and arranged...he did it while the boat was underway and tossing about...and started with the sailing rig and cockpit, instead of the various stowage spaces and number of berths below. No bullsh*t indeed.

Plus Norway is a cruising ground that is otherwise absent on youtube.


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## titustiger27

jmiller248 said:


> I have watched a ton of videos from various folks. I am like others about the T&A and not a big fan of it being a selling point. I do like Delos and probably is my fav with Vagabond, Prism running second. Adventure Adrift is in there somewhere. I have donated to Keep Turning Left as i really enjoyed his videos, but nothing new lately.
> 
> I just started watching Erik Aanderaa. Videos are not super and sometimes I can't here his voice due to wind. I just like his videos. There are not many, but hoping to see more. He does a lot of sailing and gets some awesome quad/drone shots. I'll see where he takes it. His saying is No Bullsh*t Just Sailing. Maybe that's why I like it .


I think many videos are great. Something for everyone. I tend to shy away from the higher quality...in lieu more personal. I know Vagabond and Delos are great, but prefer S/V Prism... . They seem more down to earth, or at least the earth I am party of

I do bing watch the other two from time to time.

I think it is great to see all kinds of people sailing and making videos. My favorite is/was Hitchhikers guide to sailing  because of the honesty...The husband is sick and the sailing is a last hurrah, but they haven't made a video in a couple months.. so I worry for them.

I also love the ones that have less thank 100 subscribers and if they get a couple in a week they get all excited ( Failing while Sailing ....Griot's Reverie, etc ) often the quality isn't great.. the bad sound with too much wind.. crooked camera.. but they are perspectives, Young and older, respectively.

Bad Sailboat is enjoyable. Just recently the love of his life left.. now he has to re-assess what his sailing plans will be...

And realistically for me, anyone who responds to my comments are good for me


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## Landwalker

Started watching Adventure Adrift a couple of days ago (per the earlier recommendation), and I'd definitely enjoy it. I'm not going to sit here and say that the video quality is super-engaging (at least early in the series), but their focus on the boat, the boat-buying process, the DIY projects, etc., has been great to see for someone (me) who hasn't yet been through that. For any other super-newbies for sailing, I'd say it's a good series to look at just for getting a sense of that side of the process.


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## amwbox

Here's another channel that deserves some love. Maybe the highest quality production I've seen. Wonderful photography and editing throughout. Started recently.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEM5l9Is6VwuigEjRnVx1zw/featured


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