# Cuba?



## saltydog4 (Dec 22, 2014)

Has anyone ventured down yet? I saw one guy had a post looking for crew a few months ago. According to the US dept of state we still can't go for tourism purposes only. I have personally spoken to people that claim to have flown to Cuba from a country outside the US. They say that the Cuban immigration official at the airport simply stamped a blank sheet of paper instead of stamping the actual passport. I am curious if anyone has had this experience sailing to Cuba? Has anyone ever had an encounter with the Cuban Coast Guard? My brother is in the US Coast Guard and he thinks it would be bad to be stopped by them without proper papers.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

The Cuban Coast Guard will be very much aware that Cuban Immigration stamps a piece of paper, but that won't matter if you are first entering, when you would have nothing anyway.

Nothing has changed, you still have to be qualified for the "12" magic programs to legally go to Cuba.

You still can cheat by going someplace else and not telling anyone in the US that you had a detour.

And you still can be horsewhipped if you're caught here, returning from there.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Looks like things are changing more rapidly than many thought.

US approves ferry service between Cuba and Florida - BBC News

In yesterday's BBC article above the US has approved Cuba - USA ferry service and it may start in as few as 4 months. Once there is ferry service from Florida to Cuba, surely the yachts can go back and fourth...

MedSailor


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Med-
Some ferry licenses were approved, as well as commercial flights from Havana to NY (IIRC) on one jet carrier. 

BUT.

You will still have to be one of the special 12 group members to get onto any of them.

Smoke and mirrors for now.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

By smoke, do you mean Cohiba smoke?


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

MedSailor said:


> Once there is ferry service from Florida to Cuba, surely the yachts can go back and fourth...


No, not surely at all. There has been regularly schedule airline service to Cuba for several years now. That has changed nothing in terms of who is legally allowed to go. Ferry service, also, will change nothing in terms of who is legally allowed to go. It just adds another way to get there.

The approval of ferry service is a good sign, but at this point it is just symbolic. By itself, it changes absolutely nothing.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

If Cuba is such a great place to visit, why are so many Cubans fleeing to the US?

Gary


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## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

...for fear of a possible change in the 'Wet Foot,Dry Foot' policy...

Cubans could lose easy access to green cards


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I've already seen 2 sailing magazine articles about sailing Cuba. I would say that kind of explains the current status in the real world.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

If you're not a US citizen, you can sail to Cuba today. No surprise about the articles. 

I might go, once its fully legal, but I would never go, while it's not. I know its done, but I feel its very inappropriate and, of course, illegal. Imagine that, the Cubans help facilitate the scam of coming in from another country.

Oddly, my wife wants to go in the worst way. There are just a type of people that have this thing about Cuba that I don't get. Even if I were allowed, why do I want to check in and be watched like that? The Bahamas are right next door, peaceful, virtually do whatever you like, etc. 

I just don't get it.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> I just don't get it.


The forbidden fruit is always the sweetest.  Perhaps also there's a notion (I have no idea) that it's "unspoiled" compared to the other warm islands nearby.

MedSailor


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## UPHILL (Dec 22, 2010)

saltydog4 said:


> Has anyone ventured down yet?


These people wrote all about it.

Sundowner Sails Again - Page 3 of 41 | No Longer Lubbers


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> If you're not a US citizen, you can sail to Cuba today. No surprise about the articles.
> 
> I might go, once its fully legal, but I would never go, while it's not. I know its done, but I feel its very inappropriate and, of course, illegal. Imagine that, the Cubans help facilitate the scam of coming in from another country.
> 
> ...


Other than the color of some of the water, there is virtually no similarity between the Bahamas and Cuba... To visit the latter is to step back in time, it's way more than just the cars... One of the most fascinating places I've ever been, and I consider myself very fortunate to have seen it before it's turned into another Disney park for American tourists...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

JonEisberg said:


> Other than the color of some of the water, there is virtually no similarity between the Bahamas and Cuba... To visit the latter is to step back in time, it's way more than just the cars...


I do understand that. I will grant that it has some appeal, I just don't understand the rabid desire some have and will put my nickle on the forbidden fruit theory.



> One of the most fascinating places I've ever been, and I consider myself very fortunate to have seen it before it's turned into another Disney park for American tourists...


Not turned into, you mean, returned to........ Where do you think the cars came from? It was booming prior to the revolution (albeit with serious haves and have nots). They were in the top 10 GDP per capital in the world.

Nevertheless, it's still a socialist country, so don't expect much capitalist development any time soon. The day will come down the road, no doubt.

Maybe the cruising disconnect for me is the freedom that I associate with being able to move on my boat at will. I don't believe they allow that, at least not without reporting requirements. No amount of countryside could overcome any feeling of being pinned down and watched for me.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

See, here's the thing for me. Lots of people look at the picture of the guy plowing his field with a yoke of oxen and think, "How peaceful. How idyllic." But I've worked on a farm before. I look at that picture and I KNOW that that guy would give his eye teeth for a tractor and a few gallons of diesel!

(Never mind the fact that, after a back-breaking day of working his fields, he probably goes home to a shack with no running water or electricity.)


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## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Not turned into, you mean, returned to........ Where do you think the cars came from? It was booming prior to the revolution (albeit with serious haves and have nots). They were in the top 10 GDP per capital in the world.


Not booming for regular cubans (just those, ahem, "patriots" who took of for Florida and have been whining ever since) Where do you think the revolution came from?


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I was in Havana before Castro took over the country. I had the opportunity to travel around some nearby towns, all of which were dirt poor, no one had anything, and from what I hear from some folks that have been there in recent years on business, they still don't. Back then, the only place someone could make a living was Havana and at the nearby Guantanamo Bay Naval Station, which provided lots of jobs for locals.

As for stepping back in time, I think Jon is probably correct. It's was like stepping back into the Dark Ages when I was there in the late 1950s. And, if it hasn't changed much since then, I don't think I, for one, would want to go there for a visit. I got to see, first hand, how impoverished people try to survive on a daily basis, not knowing if they will have enough food available to feed their children, hoping the shack they live in will survive another tropical storm or hurricane, drinking filthy water, rats, roaches, flies, etc... Nah! Not for me. 

I seriously doubt that you will see big US companies investing anything in Cuba as lone as the Castro regime is still in power. And, a Disneyland theme park it will NEVER BE. No one in their right mind would invest in something that the government can step in and take over in the blink of an eye. It just doesn't make good business sense.

All the best,

Gary


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## archimedes (May 14, 2014)

travlineasy said:


> No one in their right mind would invest in something that the government can step in and take over in the blink of an eye. It just doesn't make good business sense.


Apparently you have never heard of China. The Chinese gov't is no more repressive than the Cuban gov't. US corporations pressured the US gov't into opening trade with China. Since then American corporations have been falling over themselves to take advantage of the situation in China, irrespective of the gov'ts human rights record. Freedom be damned if there are profits to be had.

The same thing, eventually, will happen with Cuba.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Apparently, you don't know much about China and the reasons we trade with them. But, that's OK. Most people know very little about China, or Cuba, for that matter.

All the best,

Gary


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## archimedes (May 14, 2014)

Since I only have a masters degree in economics you may be right. 

But as a musician, perhaps you can explain it to me. But type slowly so I can understand.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

While my musical background has nothing to do with anything other than how I make a living and support my sailing habit, world history is my favorite pastime. This stemmed from spending four years aboard a US Navy heavy cruiser and sailing around the globe, visiting more than 100 countries. I have studied China's history extensively, and learned a lot from friends who were born in China and visit relatives there every couple years. I've only been to Hong Kong once, though. Neat city, jammed to overflow capacity with people, and everyone seemed to be in a hurry to get somewhere.

As to Cuba, like I stated above, I was there before Castro took over, and several times after he took over. Have you ever visited either of those places.

Cheers,

Gary


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## archimedes (May 14, 2014)

I've never been to the Moon, but I know it's not made of cheese.

I have been to China, and it's been illegal to for a US citizen to go to Cuba for my entire lifetime.

But none of that is relevant to the point you tried to make that I disagreed with. That being, that US companies would not invest in countries with totalitarian gov'ts. That simply is empirically and demonstrably false.

Do you really want me to list all the totalitarian gov'ts that US companies regularly do business with, not the least of which is China.

I have no doubt that the Castro brothers hold out great hope that they can fashion some sort of economic arrangement similar to what China has engineered (if on a smaller scale) without having to relinquish political power.

Who knows if they will succeed or not. But they certainly are going to try. And they certainly will be aided and abetted by the US corporate class asking little in return by way of human rights (see China).


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## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

archimedes said:


> I've never been to the Moon, but I know it's not made of cheese.
> 
> I have been to China, and it's been illegal to for a US citizen to go to Cuba for my entire lifetime.
> 
> ...


Coca Cola is itching if not already have plans to re-open in Cuba..wouldn't be surprised that Kentucky Fried Chicken won't be far behind....

Coca-Cola Ready to "Open Happiness" in Cuba


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I think the big difference is that the Chinese seem to be very, very industrious, history tells us that they are incredibly creative and hard working, and their engineering feats are world renown. Cuba, on the other hand, has not, IMO, demonstrated any of these capabilities during their somewhat brief history in the industrialized world, unless, of course, you take into consideration Cuban cigars and rum. 

When I was there in 1958, casinos and gambling were the biggies - not manufacturing. Apparently, someone is manufacturing parts for all those old cars, though.  

Like I said above, if Cuba is such a great place, why are so many Cubans fleeing to the US? Think about it. Do you seriously think for one minute that if the US opens an agreement for tourism in Cuba that the US population of Cubans will flock back to Havana? I don't think so!

Cheers,

Gary


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"If Cuba is such a great place to visit, why are so many Cubans fleeing to the US?"
It's a clandestine invasion, old chap. They haven't the bombs and missiles to defeat us, so they are simply taking over in another way. You'll find large parts near Miami have become "Little Havana" with no English spoken, even in the stores.

Pretty much the same way the Chinese are so eager to sell us their baby girls, so that in a decade or two, their single men can simply move here, marry US citizens who are adopted Chinese girls, and voila, silent invasion.

Why else would anyone leave heaven and sacrifice themselves to live among the barbarians for so many years? It is a great patriotic sacrifice they make.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)




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## bvander66 (Sep 30, 2007)

Maybe the cruising disconnect for me is the freedom that I associate with being able to move on my boat at will. I don't believe they allow that, at least not without reporting requirements. No amount of countryside could overcome any feeling of being pinned down and watched for me.[/QUOTE]

You mean having to call in every time you move your boat?
No different than how the US treats foriegn cruisers.


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## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

travlineasy said:


> I think the big difference is that the Chinese seem to be very, very industrious, history tells us that they are incredibly creative and hard working, and their engineering feats are world renown. Cuba, on the other hand, has not, IMO, demonstrated any of these capabilities during their somewhat brief history in the industrialized world, unless, of course, you take into consideration Cuban cigars and rum.
> 
> Gary


I guess you missed the news about the lung cancer vaccine and all the doctors that Cuba sent to combat the most recent Ebola epidemic, eh?


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## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

blowinstink said:


> I guess you missed the news about the lung cancer vaccine and all the doctors that Cuba sent to combat the most recent Ebola epidemic, eh?


Cuban medics in Haiti put the world to shame - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

bvander66 said:


> .....You mean having to call in every time you move your boat?
> No different than how the US treats foriegn cruisers.


Excellent point. Couldn't blame anyone from taking a pass on that either.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I have no doubts about Cuba's medical breakthroughs, and over the years they have demonstrated their proficiency in medicine by doing things other, politically correct nations, including the US, would never do. They prevented an AIDS epidemic by constructing a small city for AIDS patients. The patient can only live within the compound, cannot intermingle with the general public, but they can have visits from their families. It worked! By quarantining the AIDS population, just as the US quarantined the TB population, they thwarted an epidemic.

So +1 for Cuba in that respect. As for humanitarian aid, I don't believe there is any nation on the globe that comes remotely close to what the US has provided. I was in Agadir Moroco in 1960, while serving aboard the USS Newport News, digging bodies out of the rubble of an earthquake. There were French ships in the harbor, but they did not go ashore because they were afraid of disease. We were there for 10 days, then other nations came in to finish the job and begin rebuilding the city.

Statistically, we provide $510 million to Haiti every year, which translates to $52 for every man, woman and child in that tiny, impoverished nation. Take a good look at the statistics on 



 - it will blow your mind.

As for the lung cancer vaccine, I, personally, having an extensive background in pulmonary medicine, would love to see such a vaccine available for the entire world population. However, before this takes place, triple blind study must be conducted to see if it really works, and the types of cancer it would provide protection from. Keep in mind that there are a large number of different cancers that effect the lung - not just a single form. But, if it did prove effective on just one type of lung cancer, I would be the first to herald their achievement in this facet of medicine.

Gary


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

We're moving away from sailing in Cuba to politics in Cuba and elsewhere.


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## saltydog4 (Dec 22, 2014)

I hate how so many threads turn into a pissing match between know it alls.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

saltydog4 said:


> I hate how so many threads turn into a pissing match between know it alls.


Yep.

As Donna remarked this is moving towards the dark side. If we want to keep it in On Topic the politics is a no go zone. Anyone is welcome of course to discuss Cuban politics in PRWG.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

OTH the thread was basically dead till someone posted a complaint having nothing to do with the topic, then someone posted about that, and now I'm posting about it :frown:spam


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

i·ro·ny
ˈīrənē/
noun: irony

a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result.


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## ObsessionSTJ (May 4, 2015)

Still, can't wait till it opens up!

Camile
Mountains and Seashore


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I would love to go back to Havana one day in the near future, just to compare what it looks like now in comparison to when I was there in the late 1950s. I would also love to go snorkeling in that cove at Officer's Beach just outside Guantanamo Bay where I was swarmed by a massive school of yellowtail snapper in waters that had 125 feet of underwater visibility. It was awesome.

Gary


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Gary-
I thought any colonial could go to visit blood relatives in Cuba by just filling out the form and buying the ticket.
So...You tell them you left a lovechild behind, and want to go visit. Who's to say otherwise? DOS does a blood test, and you can always say, like Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca, "I was misinformed."


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)




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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Oh, yeah, Gary's wife will go along with THAT.

Not.


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