# New sailing family + new (old) boat = OMG



## awahl (Feb 18, 2012)

Hello everyone,

I have been scouting the Sailnet threads for sometime and have found a host of valuable information here. Thank you all so much for your dedication- The intensity & passion exhibited here and in the sailing community in general is one of the things that attracted me to sailing in the first place.

We are a family with two high school age boys and a yellow lab. We're based in West Michigan and will be doing the bulk of our sailing on Muskegon Lake to start. We had no sail experience at all- so we took ASA 101 as a family last week and loved it!

We have been looking at boats for awhile...This weekend our offer was accepted on an Island Packet 31. The boat has everything we're looking for as newbies (and then some). Beefy, wide side decks, easy sail plan (subject to opinion I am sure)- wonderful interior/topside space, great storage, et al. It does needs some updating here and there but appears to have great bones and everything we need right now.

Our interests are learning (learning, learning), cruising, anchoring/camping, and generally enjoying the boat however we can (elbow grease included).
I like to think in about 10 years my wife and I will move this or another boat down to the South East and head to the islands... We'll see how that goes....

We are a bit freaked out by the thought of it all- the learning, expense, time & energy commitment, and feel like we're riding up to the top of the roller coaster right now- Still it's a great feeling and the anticipation is building. We have to get past the survey- still have to get the boat in ship-shape, and still have to really learn how to sail- but *man are we excited*!

If anyone has any thoughts, opinions, or encouragement to share- we're wide open....

Anyway- just wanted to say hello and thanks- 
Hope to be a contributing member to the community someday.

Cheers to all!
Andy


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Congrats... exciting times! - and Welcome!!


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

Welcome! I hope the survey is clean. You might want to download Nigel Calder's book on boat maintenance and electrical. Its a great resource for any boat owner. Once you own her, find a friend who knows how to sail. When in doubt, look for the wind direction. everythings works off of that!


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Andy,
Good for you. What great enthusiasm you have.
This is the Nigel Caulder book you want: Amazon.com: Boatowner's Mechanical & Electrical Manual: How to Maintain, Repair, and Improve Your Boat's Essential Systems (9780070096189): Nigel Calder: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@51AWSDZ3NFL
There is a ton of helpful information in it about diesel engines and electronics as well as basic stuff. Should help you save a ton of money if you are at all handy. 
Is your IP31 the center board version or just the plain keel?
What engine is in your boat?

How to make a small fortune.
Start with a large fortune and buy a boat.

Welcome to sailnut.


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## awahl (Feb 18, 2012)

...Sailnut - I like it!

Thank you both for the tip/link on the book -I'll definitely download as I will indeed need to enhance my tinkering skills...It's all part of the journey. 

Regarding the boat itself- it's the plain keel (I guess technically the shoal draft) version- She seems pretty solid. I got a look at the last survey and there was one chainplate that needed re-bedding- not 100% certain it was done but will find out with our survey- nothing else major. The other thing I am mildly concerned about due to age is the fuel tank- which if this truly has been a fresh water boat for it's entire life may not be as much of a concern. Oh- and the rigging......Oh- and, etc.

We're crossing our fingers for a survey result that won't break the deal- and/or the bank... 

Thanks again all for the warm welcome!
Andy


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## macwrede (Jun 6, 2012)

My only suggestion to any new sailor is: "reef early, reef often"!


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## paintpollz (Nov 16, 2011)

Very exciting Andy. I look forward to your progress, please post about it!

I'm a lot younger, just a few years out of college, but aspire to have that lifestyle someday. Daysailing and weekend cruises. 

I still have an 11 year wait for my mooring to become available!


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

If you haven't learned how yet, ask your instructor to come out and show you how to reef your boat. Then every time you go sailing put a reef in and take it out, until you and the crew know how it works, can get it every time, the first time, and can do it fast.

Too many people only go out in nice weather, and since they never need to reef (because they didn't go out in rough weather) have never put their reefing gear through its paces. When it comes time to do so, things are either not functional, or they don't know how to work everything. This is when stuff breaks.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

I'd suggest you go right back for the ASA 103, you will be sailing a pretty heavy boat, not the best learning-while-doing cruising platform. It just gets you further up the competence curve before you are reliant on your own resources.


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## Mor22 (Jun 18, 2012)

It is exciting. We went through the same process 6 mths ago and purchased a Morgan 22 after getting our ASA101. After spending a lot more money than anticipated getting her up to snuff, we finally got her out on the water. She sailed like a dream, despite her old sails. A whole lot nicer than the Hunter 22 we learned on. Felt like a thorougbred by comparison. (probably because of the 1200 lb lead ballast). The moment she took the wind, it was all worth it. Now we are working on our ASA103/4 so we can charter in the Virgins in a couple of years.

The learning curve we experienced was educational. We bought the boat so cheaply we didnt bother with a survey. The bottom seemed mostly blister free and we knew we would need the rigging replaced. However the bottom needed more work than expected and the replacement teakwork was pretty pricey,even doing it ourselves. We replaced the centreboard cable and pin and fashioned a tabernacle to lower the mast. Luckily we found a great machinist, rigger and hull repair guy which made the process easier. We sure learned a lot about the boat in a very short time and spent more money than we could ever anticipate!

Next in our budget is roller furling and new sails for the sailing season. My old back doesnt do well bending over the sailbag on the foredeck!

Good luck with your survey. We had dreams years back of getting an Island Packet after seeing one at the Miami boat show and we were going to do the liveaboard thing. Unfortunately health issues precluded that.

You are going to have so much fun!

All the best.


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## awahl (Feb 18, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the tips, info, support and everything. I know we're not alone in our eagerness & do-it-now approach, but it's nice to hear from others in the same state of mind/expense management condition... 

Sailingfool - I agree and we're going to do the ASA103 to do asap once we get the old gal in the water (and perhaps after a couple of weekends of practicing our tacking & jibing). 

Stumble - Ditto on the reefing- we need to practice practice practice (in addition to MOB drills every time we go out, and some other stuff our very good instructor shared. 

Re the survey itself- I spent time on the phone speaking with several very knowledgeable surveyors- now it's time to pick one. We're looking to do a full sea trial (with sails up)- As this is our first boat, and sails are expensive; let alone the rigging, we want to make sure we have a grasp on what we have and what we need to enjoy a solid operable boat this season (and/or if we need to re-negotiate....)

One question I have is- is it the sellers responsibility to rig the boat for sail in a sea trial? Right now the sails are in bags in the quarter berth, and the broker is telling me it's our responsibility to rig the sails...he even tried to tell me that we were responsible to get the batteries installed- I thought it was the seller (or his agents) responsibility to prepare the boat for survey so this does not seem right to me. I'm about to go off on a search for that info but if anyone cares to chime in please do.

thanks again for the thoughts & comments!

Andy


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Andy,

Rigging the boat is kind of a toss up. I have done it both ways, but I defiantly wouldn't consider hooking up batteries. I would tell the broker that if the electrical system doesn't start, or the engine won't start when I arrive I will assume there is something wrong with it, and adjust my offering price to reflect replacement. 

An accepted offer is just the beginning of the negotiations on a new (to you) boat. I have never (including professionally maintained ones) seen a boat that passed my sea trial and inspection. The fun part is going back to the broker with a list of the unexpected and negotiating for who is going to accept which costs.

Typically those things that reflect poor or ignored maintenance will be the sellers, while those things that are age related are the buyers (particularly if they were disclosed, like engine ours). Until you get the survey report and sea trial report back though you really don't know what you will have to do to get her up to snuff.

Remember a sea trial isn't a pleasure cruise. It is your last chance to find everything wrong with the boat before you spend a lot of money making it yours. 

Just a short list of things found during sea trial that resulted in reduced prices

Engine wouldn't start
Generator was rusted out
Sails were mildewed and scuzzy
Lines rotten
Anchor missing
Mast pumped way to much
Shorter mast than spec (a 100' tape measure is a good thing)
Entire electrical system was non-operational...Took 5k off the price, turned out to be a fuse
roller furler wouldn't roll
Steering was very tight (bent rudder shaft as it turned out)
Steering was too loose (broken rudder straps)

The list goes on and on...

Make a list during the sea trial of everything, and I mean everything that seems not quite right. Add this list to the things discovered on survey, and seen a nicely worded letter along the lines of "we liked the boat and are still interested, but there are a number of things we need to address before moving forward." Strike from the list anything that is a diminimus cost, and see what the dealer says. 

Many owners will offer up front to cover a significant percentage of the repair work, or agree to cover some things but not others.


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## awahl (Feb 18, 2012)

Excellent, Stumble (Greg)! 

We are now clear with the broker on the batteries- Pending survey....

Cheers!


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Glad it worked out for you.


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## awahl (Feb 18, 2012)

...a quick update on the IP31...

Even though we felt the price was "decent"- after considering what the boat needed, from a newbie perspective we opted to take this particular boat off our list and look for something a little less pricey and a little more ready to go for this new sailing family. 

While the IP31 is a very stout and roomy boat, and we really love the quality feel...we decided it may not be the best choice for a first boat from a learning perspective. We're probably going to be ending up in a C30 or similar boat.We had our eyes on a very nice Hunter 30 but decided we like the characteristics and quality (resale $ and owner support) of the Catalina 30, well, more. 

After getting some salt in our veins (freshwater "salt" that is), perhaps we'll end up in an IP someday, slowly making way at the far corner of the wind when time and money are less of a concern. 

Thanks again all for your comments.
Andy


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Good plan.


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## TropicCat (Oct 14, 2008)

Welcome aboard. The Catalina 30 is a good boat and I agree a better plan.


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