# How nervous are you?



## trevorharris (Oct 17, 2016)

This may be a bit of an esoteric question, but how nervous to you get heading out of the dock?

I bought a Mirage 27 a couple of years ago and she’s my first boat. I’ve done a fait bit of checking this and that, fixed up a few things, and more things to come. I’m hoping by the time I’ve checked/replaced everything that I’ll be more calm about things.

I’ve replaced all the running rigging, re-torqued the keel bolts and filled in the keel gap. I’ve resurfaced the rudder and serviced (not totally disassembled) the engine.

Despite all this,I still get crazy nervous, to the point where its almost an impedance. I have visions of this cracking, or that breaking. I cringe when I tighten the back stay tension, or crank on the jib sheets, fearing something is going to bust.

I’ve sailed her a fair bit - not without problems (which probably doesn’t help). I have had engine troubles (that have been resolved) and standing rigging problems (which have been identified and fixed). I’ve sailed the boat on a 6 day passage, covering about 175 nautical miles. Sailed her on weekends and all the like. I’m not totally green to this, but I’m far from a seasoned sailor.

So what is it? I know there’s a healthy fear of the sea and proper skepticism of your boat, but with experience will I just get more comfortable? I’m an engineer, so I know the scrutiny the designers had to go through before they made this thing.

So again, I ask, just as a matter of perspective. How nervous do YOU get?

Thanks for listening!
Trevor


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

Not at all. Grow a pair. Be a man.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I think you will become more comfortable with time. Mirage 27 is a big boat for a first boat in my opinion, so maybe its taking you a bit longer to get used to. It sounds like you are mostly concerned about breaking the boat. I think the Mirage 27 is a fairly well built Perry design, if its been at all maintained it can probably take a lot more abuse than you think. You likely just need a couple of blows and hard dockings under your belt so you can see what the boats capable of and you will be less concerned.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

I figure the boat was designed and tested to do this. The only times I am a little nervous is when the wind really pipes up and I am single handing it. My fear then is mostly of falling overboard. That said, I think every one gets a little nervous.My wife gets really scared but I find if I blast the black keys really loud she gets over it. So maybe some music would help you.

Are you alone or do you have crew?


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

When the wind is blowing 15 knots or so out of the south, I'm a bit nervous getting the boat out of the slip when single handing, once I'm into open water all is good. Like Cap'n Ron said
" If it's going to happen it's going to happen out there" . The fact that someone would tell you to simply " grow a pair " indicates they lack a respect for good judgement. Once you have more confidence in your skills and the condition of the boat the nervousness will subside.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

contrarian said:


> The fact that someone would tell you to simply " grow a pair " indicates they lack a respect for good judgement.


Or, it could indicate manhood. What are you afraid of? We all die. Get over it.

I have good judgement. I also think it is more important to live, than to continue to live. Most people I have met are so afraid of dying, they are afraid to live!

So, get over it, grow a pair, ACT like a man because obviously you will never be one, and experience life before it leaves you.


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

Being a man and claiming to be a man are two entirely different things. You think bravado makes you a man? You are obviously still a boy.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Wow.....the expert on manhood has spoken.

Real men aren’t afraid to discuss their fears😄😄😄😄

Back to th point of the OP. As you continue to sail the Uber fear will dissipate. It comes with increased repetitions IMHO. Success breeds confidence. We all have broken things, banged into the dock, etc. You have a perfect sized boat to do this. It is Safe and will protect you. A healthy angst is not always a bad thing and is not unnatural. 

I look to my wife as an example. 16 years ago when we dated she couldn’t swim, fear of the water ...petrified. Eventually she learned with positive coaxing and reenforcement. Hadn’t a clue about sailing. Allowing her to slowly experience things built her confidence to where we charter in Seattle, Long BeCh, the Carribean and sail Haleakula for a three week vacation to Long Island and beyond. 

Enjoy your learning curve. It hasn’t prevented you from continuing going out. Keep at it.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

contrarian said:


> Being a man and claiming to be a man are two entirely different things. You think bravado makes you a man? You are obviously still a boy.


No, I KNOW the way I live my life makes me a man. You appear to have no clue what makes a man. I live my life everyday with very few regrets, wish I could say NO regrets. Can you say the same?

I am leaving next week on a 10 day sailing trip from St. Pete to The Dry Tortugas on a 53' Jenneau. I am not afraid to leave the dock. I am not afraid to make the sail. I am not afraid of anything I may encounter. I will deal with whatever I need to, hopefully successfully.

What I won't do is cower on the dock and be afraid to go and live my life.


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## KayakerChuck (May 4, 2017)

Nervous? 

I'm new to sailing a real sailboat- I just bought her this spring. 

I'm pretty much totally relaxed on my sailboat. It's a 1983, 22' O'Day- so it's not a big investment. I have 2 sails and a good motor- any of which can get me somewhere. Maybe not where I want to go, but at least somewhere. I have 2 VHF radios and a cell phone. I've gone through all the things that matter, serviced and fixed what needed help, and have no structural worries about the boat or rig.

I'm mostly in Lake St Clair, which is reasonably small water. I've been boating on it for all of my 50 years. I've broken all systems on powerboats and gotten home with my boat. (OK, maybe I went home on a different boat & came back with SCUBA gear to get mine back. Don't tell anyone ;-) 

What scares me is other "boaters", or me doing something stupid. These are the same worries I have while driving, hiking, riding my motorcycle, whatever. I have had very serious incidents concerning other boaters- mostly they were just stupid/inattentive. A few were actively malicious. No different than doing anything else or driving to the marina.

Why worry?


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Nervous? Leaving or coming into the dock? No, not really, more concerned. Now when I'm out there I start to think about sudden loss of atomic cohesion of the fiberglass molecules, thats when I get nervous, or when some power boat is approaching on plane, or the blue and red flashing lights behind me.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

ianjoub said:


> No, I KNOW the way I live my life makes me a man. You appear to have no clue what makes a man. I live my life everyday with very few regrets, wish I could say NO regrets. Can you say the same?
> 
> I am leaving next week on a 10 day sailing trip from St. Pete to The Dry Tortugas on a 53' Jenneau. I am not afraid to lehttp://www.harboryc.com/membership-fees/ave the dock. I am not afraid to make the sail. I am not afraid of anything I may encounter. I will deal with whatever I need to, hopefully successfully.
> 
> What I won't do is cower on the dock and be afraid to go and live my life.


From my perspective REAL men don't have to beat their bravado about how much of a man they are, REAL men have others call them REAL men and don't have to brag about themselves and there supposed exploits.

A real man would be making that trip from ST Pete in his 27 foot Mirage not a 53 footer borrowed from someone else.

Give it and us a break.

I think the OP is living his life and obviously hasn't been afraid to leave the dock. If you can tear yourself away from promoting yourself here, how about helping a fellow sailor vs belittling him.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

chef2sail said:


> From my perspective REAL men don't have to beat their bravado about how much of a man they are, REAL men have others call them REAL men and don't have to brag about themselves and there supposed exploits.
> 
> I don't have an issue with that. Everyone who knows me knows I am a real man. I certainly don't worry about apologizing to puffs over it.
> 
> ...


I am helping him. Sometimes people just need a kick in the butt to get going. The OP sounded like that was most of his problem.

You, on the other hand, might want to go to Wal Mart and buy a pillow to chew on.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Hi Trevor, and welcome. Ignore all the silly bravado. Sail your own sail. Being nervous is not unusual. It’s the sign that you are paying attention to the very real challenges of sailing and cruising. Don’t let it debilitate you though … that is where it tips into dysfunction. 

I sailed a Mirage 27 quite a bit on Lake Superior. They are great boats. Solid, roomy, and pretty fast. This boat will take you far. But ignore the calls to “man up” or “grow a pair.” This is kindergarten talk. Moving at your own pace is what being a REAL ‘person' is all about.

BTW, I just washed up on Newfoundland shores this past season, having sailed from Lake Superior (Thunder Bay), over the span of a few seasons. I’m in the Bay of Islands (Corner Brook), so would love to learn more from you local sailors.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Perhaps you might want to look at your fears from a different perspective.
Really, what's about the worst thing that could happen on a small boat, day sailing around your home port? IMO, it would be a dismasting. Probably the most expensive failure one can have, though rarely does anyone get injured. You said you've replaced the rig and I assume had a rigger tune your rig or done it yourself. Why would you worry that you'll be dismasted, then?
Winch in your headsail and rip out the clew? Big deal, start the engine and power home; all it's going to cost you is some time and money. Engine dies or you run aground? That's why an intelligent boat owner has Sea Tow or BoatUS, when available. Again, it's just money. But any of these things are good experiences for your future sea stories and even increase your knowledge and confidence, after the fact, because you learn that you will survive, most likely unhurt.
We all do our best to insure that things don't go wrong, but you can only prepare so much. So, if something breaks or whatever, then you fix it/learn from it and go out after the repairs; it just isn't all that catastrophic.
You are in a great deal more danger every time you travel in a motor vehicle, that's for sure. So, relax and have some fun. If you can't, then perhaps boating just isn't your thing.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

ianjoub said:


> Or, it could indicate manhood. What are you afraid of? We all die. Get over it.
> 
> I have good judgement. I also think it is more important to live, than to continue to live. Most people I have met are so afraid of dying, they are afraid to live!
> 
> So, get over it, grow a pair, ACT like a man because obviously you will never be one, and experience life before it leaves you.


So wait, let me get this straight, IanJoub ("landlubber"?!?), whenever I get nervous taking my 38-foot boat solo on the Pacific, hundreds of miles offshore, I should grow a set, too? I guess this means that neutered males and females are the only ones who ever feel a bit twitchy at times? Call it what you will, but a little nervousness about any new activity or when in a new environment is just a healthy counterbalance to our (often inflated) egos and it certainly doesn't require growing some dangly appendage :kiss


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

My level of anxiety or nervousness depends a lot on what situation I am in, and what experiences I have had recently. In the long run it has been ameliorated by learning how to deal with various unanticipated things. We had our engine die in a narrow entrance to our marina. It shook our confidence in our boat and our abilities. However, after much thought about how I could deal with this situation in the future, I am much more confident.


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## br3nt (Mar 28, 2009)

Manhood ianjoub? Really? What are your credentials? And who cares? Open your eyes. Single, sexless troll. Damn, lowered myself to your level. Oops. 

So tired of these points. Little masted, anonymous people on the internet who need to prove themselves, wow.

Anyway, don’t listen. Took many, many trips for me not to dread coming out of the slip and marina. Too much to hit! 

It’s been 10 years or so of my wife and I sailing. We’re strangely both human and supported each other every step of the way. We’ve now sailed internationally, have multiple ASA certs and are still learning. We still have our moments. 

Sailing has nothing to do with manhood. Experience, support and learn.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

I was really nervous getting out of a tight slip with adverse current and wind the wrong way just the other day. Plus not a lot of water under the keel to keep me floating..a few extra hands on some lines, judicious use of the engine saw me get out with nary a scratch...or bump...yep, felt like a REAL sailor man!..Was much better sailing up to Langkawi in 25 knots of NE breeze...pure joy that little passage.


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## Snorri (Oct 23, 2017)

It depends on how many people are there to see my mistakes


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## trevorharris (Oct 17, 2016)

ianjoub, I honestly thought your first post was a joke. I didn't imagine someone in this community could be so crass. You've insulted people beyond reason and have shown your own insecurities portrayed by your incessant need to justify yourself. We're all just folk here, all equals. You're not doing your countrymen well by conforming to a stereotype.

In a way I appreciate your demeanour. We need people like you in this word to make the rest of us look better. So on behalf of everyone else, we appreciate your sacrifice.

Now, please stop cluttering up this thread which is important to me. I'm not going to bother justifying myself to you - I've already spent more thought on you than my time is worth.

As for the rest of us, let's just stop feeding this troll.


-------------------
Anyway, now that that's over with. Thanks for the replies everyone! I'm never single handling it - my wife is usually on the tiller and I'm on the lines. We're both sufficiently intuitive people and keep a weather eye on, er, the weather. 

On one of our training sails on another boat we did run aground (neither of us were at the helm), so that's a cause of some fear, but as Arcb sated, I am indeed more worried about something breaking on the boat causing a cascading problem.

Most of the suggestions have a similar theme - as chef2sail said, Success breeds confidence. I've got all the safety equipment, life raft, and radios. I'll just keep on keepin' on. Glad to know I'm not alone in this thought.

Thanks all! I appreciate it!


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## SV Siren (Mar 8, 2013)

Trevor,
If someone is not at least a little bit nervous about something happening, sometime, then I would say that they're overconfident. If you plan for something to go sideways, then you have a plan to follow. Sometimes things will just happen, usually they are minor and you're just left praying that nobody saw you. 

For example: the first time I went out with a friend of mine, on his new to him boat in a new to us area. There was a very narrow, and poorly marked 20' wide dredged channel through some marsh(read cement block, w/ bleach bottle buoys), we ran aground doing 2 knots, about 30' from two guys who were eating sandwiches while fishing in the shallows. They just sat there, and watched. We got ourselves off before they finished their sandwiches, they never stopped chewing..all was fine, but egos were bruised. We shook it off and had a great sail, all was forgotten, except we learned which buoy, ahem, bottle, was a little off.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I get nervous about going into a new place lots of times. IT is normally a combination of the chart making it look hairy, ActiveCaptain warnings, or stuff about it in a guide book. So I spend the trip looking at it over and over and get all wond up. The thing is that once I get to the place it has always turned out to be a non event. But I don’t know if the reason is that it wasn’t a big deal or whether it was because I was really prepared mentally to deal with it.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

It sounds to me like the OP is more worried about the machine (the boat) than his ability. Is the boat fully found? This IMHO is a rational concern. Engine failure, rigging failure, etc. How do you get over it?

First prioritize. The only things that have to work are:

1. No leaks, the boat cannot sink.
2. Rudder, so you can go where you want to go.
3. Standing rigging so it doesn't fall on your head.
4. Running rigging and sails so you can make the wind move it.
5. Motor so you can get into tight slips with no or unfavorable winds and currents.

Everything else is comfort. A head can be a bucket, pressure water can be a bucket, you can eat cold food, refrigerate with ice, sing rather than listen to your entertainment system, etc.

So make sure 1-5 is sound. If you doubt your own ability to assess these systems, get someone to help you. Then beat the boat up. If you are comfortable in 15-20, go out in 20-30 and tie in a reef. Stress the thing to prove to yourself it ain't gonna break.

When a boat is new to me, we've owned 5 over too many years, I start out conservative. New or used. I've had all kinds of things break at bad times. We are conservative as all get out when it come to insuring the 5 items above are solid. 

I think early on, with a new to you boat, and things are breaking at a high rate, it's hard to get confident in the machine. Don't feel bad....I think it's rational. Clean up the priority systems and keep pushing the envelope...your worries will fade away.


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## BillFalls44 (Dec 11, 2017)

contrarian said:


> Being a man and claiming to be a man are two entirely different things. You think bravado makes you a man? You are obviously still a boy.


This!!


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

As a submariner, I have been brainwashed into having a very critical attitude towards maintenance, inspections and monitoring.
I'm constantly checking rigging, lifelines, hull penetrations (shaft, seacocks, through-hulls). The slightest amount of water in the bilge makes me grind my teeth.
I watch my engine gauges like a hawk when motoring. I check the bilge regularly while cruising. I listen for any cycling of the bilge pump and the shower sump.

I'm nervous when I set out for the first sail of the season. I begin to relax after making rounds of the boat and finding everything working properly.
I'm nervous when darkness falls. I usually relax about 30 min. to an hour after full darkness when I realize that the keel isn't just going to fall off because the sun set.
I'm nervous for an hour or two when I cross the boundary into the Atlantic. I manage to relax once I convince myself that the mast could just as easily fall down while inside the Chesapeake.

Capecodda is right about prioritizing. I also have that mindset. I think I'll call it "Capecodda's hierarchy of needs." 

Anyway, a total lack of fear keeps you ignorant to your environment and will lead to complacency and eventually, some sort of casualty.
Too much fear can be just as detrimental. It can force you to freeze during a critical moment or affect your judgement in other, negative ways, not to mention sucking the joy out of sailing.

The right amount of fear (or caution, if you prefer) keeps you aware of what's going on around you, causes you to be introspective and think about your actions and decisions but still allows you to function at a high level.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The feeling of being nervous is an instinct created by evolution. In excess, it can be paralyzing, but a little will increase your adrenaline, which in turn increases alertness. It's driven by being prepared for something you can't anticipate. 

So, if unclear anticipation is the problem, let's focus on risk management. First, it's well known that the boat is much more capable than it's crew. Abandon vessels are frequently found floating, long after the evacuation. 

Good risk management requires you to identify the risks, then understand what you would do. You're not going to die, if you have proper RM plans. Period. So, what are the risks? Falling out of the boat?...... tether in, wear a PLB and/or VHF radio. Boat leaks?...... stock up on leak mitigation, plugs, stay afloat, soft plugs, even a pillow under your foot will slow about any leak enough for the bilge pump to keep up. How about an inability to maneuver, such as motor issues, broken rudder or rigging?...... get a $150/yr towboat insurance policy. 

It's all about identifying the risks that are causing your anxiety and have a plan. Then go out and sail. You'll likely find this saying is very true........ worrying is just paying interest on a debt you don't owe.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I didn't notice you were in Western Newfoundland. Big boy cruising grounds. It makes the comments about sailing a 53 foot boat in South Florida bit funny, at least to me. I spent about a month hiking at Grosse Morne a bunch of years back, it's a pretty unforgiving coast line. A bit like sailing on the moon compared to south Florida. 

In terms of docking, I think you've got yourself a pretty tough little boat there. Even if you totally lose control and smash into a piling or something, I wouldn't expect a lot of damage.

I've been trying to think what makes me the most nervous. I would say getting caught out in damaging weather and dismasting. Mostly if I start to get concerned I have three main tools in my tool box; reef often and reef early and seek shelter.

Like mentioned above, there are things worth worrying about on a boat that size: a big hole in the bottom from a keel or engine issue, fire, getting dashed on a rocky shore by waves and things that maybe aren't that big of a deal, like messing up a docking or the odd accidental gybe. I think after you make a few mistakes, you will have more confidence.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

gamayun said:


> So wait, let me get this straight, IanJoub ("landlubber"?!?), whenever I get nervous taking my 38-foot boat solo on the Pacific, hundreds of miles offshore, I should grow a set, too? I guess this means that neutered males and females are the only ones who ever feel a bit twitchy at times? Call it what you will, but a little nervousness about any new activity or when in a new environment is just a healthy counterbalance to our (often inflated) egos and it certainly doesn't require growing some dangly appendage :kiss


I would ask "what are you nervous about"? If you can identify the issues and address them in your own mind, you should no longer be nervous. I would suggest that it is best to identify ones fears/concerns and address them before setting off. That is what manning up/ growing a pair is.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

trevorharris said:


> ianjoub, I honestly thought your first post was a joke. I didn't imagine someone in this community could be so crass. You've insulted people beyond reason and have shown your own insecurities portrayed by your incessant need to justify yourself. We're all just folk here, all equals. You're not doing your countrymen well by conforming to a stereotype.
> 
> In a way I appreciate your demeanour. We need people like you in this word to make the rest of us look better. So on behalf of everyone else, we appreciate your sacrifice.
> 
> ...


Good for you Trevor,

I think you have the right attitude. Lots of good advice from others here. Even the most seasoned sailors in here started out as newbies or inexperienced once.

Keep pushing your envelope. That will breed confidence. We all have had mishaps. Things break. It's part of boat ownership. When you own a boat and put all the effort and time into fixing her up it sucks, but it happens.

Do what you feel is comfortable for you and your wife. You also want the experience to have fun . Only you know what those limits are.

I found that patience with myself and her were most important. After all this activity s shared and I bet you want this to continue.

Once in a while if you can go on another boat, or join in racing in your area, you'll see how others handle every day sailing and also more challenging situations. That can be a great learning experience.

As far as the aberrant poster here, it takes all kinds to make a village. Never get in a pissing contest with a skunk.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

Every season, I go through some fear of things breaking. When the first stiff wind lays your boat over, I don't know how you can help but wonder about all the forces involved. 

I don't like the feeling. So I reef early, especially in the spring. 

I watch the engine more closely in the spring until I'm confident things are the way they should be.

I look for slight changes, creeping around chain plates, sudden slack in the rigging. 

I check the bilge more frequently in the spring. 

Pretty soon decks are awash, the boat(thanks to a reef) feels good and solid, and I feel all the parts that hold a sailboat together in a stiff wind, are strong. 

But a little fear is good. I wouldn't go anywhere with someone who didn't have it.

I'd sail with you.


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## oldlaxer1 (Mar 27, 2008)

Friends often asked if I got nervous flying the plane. My response is I get butterflies in my stomach each and every time and the moment I stop getting them I will stop flying. As has been stated here by most, a little nervousness heightens awareness. Planning and preparation help alleviate issues but there is nothing wrong with running a few "what if" scenarios through your head as situations change. Experience helps those exercises become second nature and one less thing to be nervous about. I think you're on the right track.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Snorri said:


> It depends on how many people are there to see my mistakes


A long, long, long time ago I stopped caring what others thought about whatever I did on/with my boat. It was liberating!


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Arcb said:


> I didn't notice you were in Western Newfoundland. Big boy cruising grounds. It makes the comments about sailing a 53 foot boat in South Florida bit funny, at least to me. I spent about a month hiking at Grosse Morne a bunch of years back, it's a pretty unforgiving coast line. A bit like sailing on the moon compared to south Florida.


Well said Arcb. I was going to mention something like this as well. Newfoundland sailing is already, by default, pretty serious stuff. One note though, I think Conception Bay is on the east side of The Rock. I'm on the west, just south of Gros Morne. That's why I'd love advice from YOU Trevor.

Excellent advice from almost everyone here. My view is that if you are asking the questions, then you've already got a good handle on the issues. Sailing these waters should never be done lightly. Invest in your skills, and in the soundness of your vessel. Be aware of the weather and the boat situation. Watch and listen for changes. Don't blindly follow a plan or schedule if things change. And most importantly, move at your (and your wife's) own pace.

Hope we can cross wakes sometime soonish.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

BS aside, I think that anyone who is a thinking sailor approaches going out sailing with at least a small amount of trepidation and a larger amount of caution. I have sailed for a very long time and owned my current boat for 16 years. Yet despite the confidence which comes from sailing a familiar boat in a familiar place, I am always aware that unexpected things can happen out there. As someone like you with structural engineering in my background, I cannot help but be aware of the high forces in a sail boat and cannot help but think about potential weak links in the system. But it is that awareness that hopefully prevents me from letting hubris set in, and which also hopefully prevents me from doing something that is stupid enough to damage the boat or get me killed. 

This discussion about courage is a strange one. To me there is nothing courageous about being fearless. To me, that is a mental deficit. To me, real courage is having a well reasoned fear, and yet, putting that fear aside, and doing that thing that you fear most in a cautious and calculated way. 

Oddly, for me, my moments of greatest fears are just before the crap hits the fan but I can see what is about to happen. During any really bad stuff, I am so focused on what is happening, there is no time for fear. Being able to articulate your fears as you have, can help clarify what you are feeling. This process of putting fears into words often allows you to break down your concerns into smaller parts, then think ahead and be able to take the kinds of step by step actions that minimize the risks. 

You are doing the right things, treating the dangers of the sport with a proper respect, talking with people who have been through this before so that you can learn from their experiences, and going out there and continuing to learn and grow. As long as the fear does not prevent you from enjoying being out there, its all good. 

Jeff


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## Caribbeachbum (Feb 23, 2014)

ianjoub said:


> ...You, on the other hand, might want to go to Wal Mart and buy a pillow to chew on.


LOL. I have over the years observed a direct correlation between chest-beating, gay-baiting, REAL MANLINESS and often-secret pillow-chewing. There are, of course, counter-examples. Well, probably. I can't think of one.


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## Caribbeachbum (Feb 23, 2014)

Snorri said:


> It depends on how many people are there to see my mistakes


Sometimes watching people dock or anchor or moor is highly entertaining. Sometimes you're the entertainment...


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I don't get nervous, but in the back of my mind... what would I do in the middle of the harbor if the engine crapped out and it was windy and only a few tens of boats to careen into. I have a remote cockpit switch for the windlass and it's shallow so I don't need a lot of scope and the holding is fine, Newport is another story however.

My concern is being in control of my boat... and keeping it away from other boats and hard things. Last season my steering decided not to work when I was about to approach the town dock for fuel or water.

I was under AP going down the channel and switched over to manual steering to come along side.... but turning the helm did nothing. YIKES. I had to think fast and dropped the RPM to idle and tried to re engage the AP... which is mechanically engaged to the rudder post with a teleflex cable that pulls a pin into an alignment slot. So if the AP was not disengaged in center helm I have to turn the helm while I pull the teleflex to engage it. I could not turn the rubber with the helm so I had "hunt" for the right spot with the course knob. The course was essentially down the middle to the narrow channel... so once the pin engaged I would be going past the dock...

And this is what happened. Now I had to turn the boat 180 and drive it over to my mooring 3/4 mile on the far side of the mooring field and pick up the mooring steering with the AP. I was lucky and got it on the second pass. That could have been a real disaster but it was nothing. I took the binnacle apart and had to re place / re install 4 bolts. Fixed. Dodged a few bullets there.

Lessons learned... check all major systems... engine... steering before going anywhere.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Trevor, it sounds like you are not a 'tool guy'. Like you were not raised around tools and machines and never got a feel-in-the-butt for when things were going to break, and when they'd be good enough. And not having that by-the-butt feel for things, you look at them rationally and that of course means you worry because you've got no basis to trust them.

The only way you can or will ever stop worrying most of the time, is by gaining experience and trust in the boat, in your skills, in whatever is involved. You can learn to trust your skills better and faster if you take some formal sailing lessons including some racing and some bareboat prep. Yes, it costs money. By the hour, it is cheaper than psychiatry though.

And then, I'd suggest getting out there on OPBs (Other Peoples' Boats) any way you can, and that includes offering to be rail meat on racing boats when you think you have no interest in racing. You get to see and learn what everyone and everything else is doing, and that's another great way to build confidence.

Every time I have stretched the boundaries of my comfort--usually unintended and without much choice--the result has been allowing me to be comfortable going forward because after the first time "Yeah, I've done this before".

And as has been said, we're all gonna die sometime. You try to learn the right way to do things, you try to avoid the really foolish things, and the odds are neither the boat nor the ocean will kill you right now.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I've never been nervous about venturing out on a boat, or anything else for that matter. Maybe it's because I've been on boats since I was just 5 years old, and began running a boat by myself at age 12. Of course, many of my oldest friends will tell you with some degree of certainty that I'm a bit insane in some of the things I have done during my 77 years on planet Earth. I always figured a little insanity went a long way. 

If you are a first time boater, a bit of apprehension is not unusual. And, it is a good thing, now that I think about it. You are responsible for the safety of yourself and others who are also enjoying the same waterway, or boat with you.

As for the boat being too big for a first time boater, NAH! My first sailboat, which I handled singlehanded, was a 27 Catalina with a hank on jib and tiller. It was a bit challenging at first, but in a few hours, I managed to figure out how to sail the damned thing without killing myself or wrecking the boat. Sailing ain't rocket science. It's just common sense, for the most part.

Enjoy that boat,

Gary


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Interesting thread. 40 posts in 24 hours.

Driven off the jokey "be a man" crap. But not driven off the "arrrrrr it's manly to be petrified" crap yet.

The only way people really learn a drill is by repetition. 
Theory can be studied once, tested, safe. But a drill - the physical doing of a repetitive skill - can't be learned from a book. But nor is it just the mechanically adept who can master it.

Do it by doing it.

Set a calender: every Saturday and Sunday morning, without fail, take the boat out at 9am, do 3 laps of the channel, do some reversing practice under engine then put all sails up and sail for at least 1 hour.

Rain. Hail. Shine.

By this repetition you will, like a ferry driver, get to calm your nerves. 

A boat stuck in a marina is growing scum on the waterline. So is your brain.

Get the boat on the water at 9am. No matter what, ☺

Every week.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

+1 on drilling, sometimes I think its something overlooked by the cruising sailor.

When I was 19 I got my first job driving a ferry. It was a yacht club tender about 35 feet, I did 4 crossings an hour for an 8 hour shift. It basically worked out to around 2500 single handed dockings a summer, did that for 3 summers.

My last job as a ferry driver, was a bit bigger of a boat, about 200 tons, that boat was 2 dockings an hour for a 12 hour shift. Drove that boat for 2 seasons. In the neighbourhood of 2000 dockings a season for 2 seasons. Then there was 15 years of driving other boats in between. I can honestly say I haven't been at all nervous about a docking on a pleasure sailboat in many years, but just these two jobs represented over 10000 dockings, so it took me a while to get there.

About a year and a half ago I bought my first ever beach cat, sure I had owned several other sail boats, but not a beach cat, as had my sailing partner. We had sailed beach cats before at resorts and stuff, but I had never owned one. We were determined that we didn't want to learn how to sail beach cats, we wanted to be good at sailing beach cats. So we came up with a plan and executed.

Nearly every Monday for the next year and a half we took most Mondays off work to train, provided there was no ice on the water. Every training day we picked a skill and we repeated that skill for hours, we took turns driving. Low wind days we would practice sail trim, navigation, tacking, gybing, recovery from capsize- whatever. High wind days trap, capsize recovery, sail trim, tacking, gybing, speed- always speed. First we were getting 7 knots- Cheers! Then 9 Cheers! then we broke the 10 mark Cheers! then 12 Cheers. 14 knots, Cheers. All of a sudden we found ourselves getting annoyed at our selves when we could only get 10 or 11 knots out of the boat.

I think if you are going to get good at something, repetitive practice is a good idea. If docking is stressing you out, then do docking drills. You can use buoys to simulate docking between boats or you can use a nav aid buoy to practice station keeping in a current or wind. Switch it up, every body takes a turn driving so you understand the other persons job. Maybe if you are doing a 4 hour sail, spend the first hour coming in and out of dock, then go for a sail and have fun.


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

Arcb...I think I am going to quit sailing, you make it sound like too much work.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

contrarian said:


> Being a man and claiming to be a man are two entirely different things. You think bravado makes you a man? You are obviously still a boy.


He's not just a boy - he's a boy who rides the short bus.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

The older I get the more nervous I get. 

I outgrew my immortality a long time ago and I've gained a lot of experience or rather knowledge of what can go wrong.


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## trevorharris (Oct 17, 2016)

Thanks again for all the replies! I agree with MarkofSeaLife, this has been a wonderfully interesting thread.

Just to be clear on my original post though, while I am indeed nervous about the docking an general sailing execution, I'm not as concerned with the gaining of experience in that manner. I've had a few foolish hobbies during my time on this little rock, so I understand those notions.

What has bothered me the most was questioning the rigging and general gear failure and things of that nature. That part is new to me. I haven't had to rely on mechanic components for safety so much before in a hobby like this. Yes, yes, I know cars and the like... but that aside...

Thanks again!


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

SloopJonB said:


> He's not just a boy - he's a boy who rides the short bus.





SloopJonB said:


> The older I get the more nervous I get.
> 
> I outgrew my immortality a long time ago and I've gained a lot of experience or rather knowledge of what can go wrong.


The short bus would be a step up for you.

Far from feeling immortal, I understand that we are all going to die. I am not going to have the fear of death paralyze me.

I don't even pity people like you any more. You will go through life and never live, your loss.


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

> He's not just a boy - he's a boy who rides the short bus.


Nope, I ride the short bus and I have never seen him on it. Egg Sucking Dweebs are relegated to wearing clown suits and riding tricycles while vehemently exclaiming how they are the ones that know how to live life to its fullest. They demonstrate this by carrying large balls in a little wagon that they pull behind their tricycles. 
Don't you just love the circus?
The imagery is fascinating and so apropos


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

“I’m an engineer, so I know the scrutiny the designers had to go through before they made this thing.”

There’s the rub. You’ve been trained in critical thinking, to imagine how things break so that you can design something that doesn’t. And perhaps you’ve met a comrade or two with a caviler attitude. 

IMHO this anxiety will eventually pass. It’s kind of like mussel memory, if you do something long enough it becomes automatic, the program still runs but in the background.

What was your experience learning to drive? Now that’s crazy scary stuff fight there. Wizzing around at 140 mph differential speed in a lightweight box run by computer programmers next to sleep deprived freight liners and iPhone addicts.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

trevorharris said:


> Thanks again for all the replies! I agree with MarkofSeaLife, this has been a wonderfully interesting thread.
> 
> Just to be clear on my original post though, while I am indeed nervous about the docking an general sailing execution, I'm not as concerned with the gaining of experience in that manner. I've had a few foolish hobbies during my time on this little rock, so I understand those notions.
> 
> ...


As far as gear failures... note that structural system systems are designed with a healthy factor of safety. Can rigging fail? YES! but it's usually not a catastrophic one. I sailed to Bermuda once and we were on starboard tack for several days in heavish seas... and I noticed that one the strands of one of the shrouds... has parted. My rigging wire is very large...I think it's over 3/8" diameter... maybe 7/16. It is 19 strand so I lost one stand which was woven with the other 18 strands. I was freaked out thinking there would be a cascading failure and I would lose the rig! I used a spare halyard on the opposite tack secured to the chain plate tensioned it as much as I could and everything was fine. Replaced the wire in Bermuda.

Engine parts have a service life... and if you keep a head of things your engine should be fine. But they also have failures and so you need spares and ways to fix things. Sometimes you can't...sometimes you can. My engine has been going for 32 yrs... it's old but well maintained. I expect something to go at any time. But that does not cripple me from using the boat.

Wear and chafe is the enemy of the sailor. Be mindful of that.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

screw reason and sensibilities. when one sails out of a safe place to an unknown , one feels a lil skittish or butterfies for a bit--i get them just before passages and cannot sleep night before any change much less passage making, even over known grounds. 


long ago in a disgusting city now to me far away, there was a lil gal with my same name, no not zee, but the other one so few are allowed to know. it was her n me sisters from hell in sporty car race work and in water. she had just gotten deevorsed and her hubby always handled boat out the wicked slip into the working harbor. she told me she COULD NOT get her boat out of her slip. 
ok so that lasted only until i got to her boat in her slip and we worked on that issue. she had a 25 coronado sloop with 9.9 outboard. easily manipulated. she was in a slip very near an overpass, aka gangway for marina. in the backwater slips. and rocks. lots of em.
so she manned the engine and i got her out of the slip and into the marina channel. i only taught her what she should have learned from her hubby before divorce. ok so we all donot have perfect vision. 
exiting a slip is all geometry. your 8th grade maths. angles and curves. 
the difficulties lie only within our minds. we are able to overcome these easily with creativity and imagination. 
think about the geometry then do it. have it all worked out before arrival then implement the maths and you have it. 
also work out a plan b and c.....


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

*You gotta lean back and trust your rope,*

First time I tried to rappel I "kissed the rock" several times before my friend told me, "you gotta lean back and trust your rope". With repetition you reach the point of "I've seen worst than this and nothing broke".


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

ianjoub said:


> The short bus would be a step up for you.
> 
> *Far from feeling immortal, I understand that we are all going to die. I am not going to have the fear of death paralyze me.*
> 
> I don't even pity people like you any more. You will go through life and never live, your loss.


We all understand this as well. The primary difference between you and the rest of us, is that we aren't rude and denigrating about it.

No one here has said that they are paralyzed by fear when sailing. Most people have admitted to some minor feelings of trepidation that we quickly get over, and then enjoy the sailing. Your assertion that you're a man and that we're all a bunch of petrified Nancys is patently false.

Keep beating your chest if it makes you feel manly. I know the path that I've carved in my life and I know that I have nothing to prove to anyone.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

"Far from feeling immortal, I understand that we are all going to die." 

"We all understand this as well. "

No, not true. In a sociology class I took many tides ago, the professor asked "How many of you are going to die?" Out of a class of about 25, only 2 raised their hand.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Sounds like your more worried about a mechanical failure, just get Sea Tow or Boat US towing and let them worry about getting you back in if there is a failure. Toe there are a lot of more important thing to worry about.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

miatapaul said:


> Sounds like your more worried about a mechanical failure, just get Sea Tow or Boat US towing and let them worry about getting you back in if there is a failure. Toe there are a lot of more important thing to worry about.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


The OP is in Newfoundland. I'm not sure those services are available up there.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Ajax_MD said:


> The OP is in Newfoundland. I'm not sure those services are available up there.


Well that indeed could cause some concern.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

It's a funny thing, actually.. I can drive for hours without giving the vehicle engine a thought, or worry that it might quit running.

Motoring for a lengthy spell is not the same, I seem always to be 'waiting for the pin to drop'. So to a degree I'm often anxious about that, and about losing a part of the rig or rigging in a serious breeze.

After more than a few decades, this hasn't changed. Docking has rarely been an issue, we've always owned boats that are well behaved in such circumstances - for several years conditions were such that we routinely sailed into our berth, and only might've 'screwed it up' when we rarely had to do it under power. Today with bigger, heavier boats that's not an option but we've got that down and have confidence that we can turn and stop as required in most conditions.

Still get a tad anxious heading into new territory, tidal races, etc. I think it's healthy in that one tends to 'think things through' and becomes at least mentally prepared for some of the crap that might happen. My wife often asks 'whatcha thinking about?' - usually it's too many things to be able to simply or quickly explain... and in any case I daren't say I'm worried the engine might quit...


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

The only thing to fear is fear itself, and .................. Sailnet responses!


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

> Sounds like your more worried about a mechanical failure, just get Sea Tow or Boat US towing and let them worry about getting you back in if there is a failure. Toe there are a lot of more important thing to worry about.





Ajax_MD said:


> The OP is in Newfoundland. I'm not sure those services are available up there.


Yup &#8230; no such things up our way. Although you might be able to get a tow from a local fishing vessel.

Like so many have said here Trevor, a little bit of nervousness is normal and a good thing. As long as it doesn't become debilitating it's good to be a little bit on edge. Mechanical failures do happen. Good maintenance and awareness of your surroundings and your vessel will go a long way to minimizing any problems you might have. They will still happen, but in some way, it's all part of the joy of this life.

You've already proven your mettle by successfully sailing no small distance through challenging waters in a relatively small vessel. Keep moving at your own pace, ignore the macho idiots, and you'll be fine.


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## OldEagle (Nov 16, 2013)

> It's a funny thing, actually.. I can drive for hours without giving the vehicle engine a thought, or worry that it might quit running.
> 
> Motoring for a lengthy spell is not the same,


Well, driving the car and motoring the boat aren't the same, and you sense that. When you car's engine quits, the car stops, it stays where you stopped it, and you get out and start walking. Even in the middle of nowhere, you will probably get a ride sooner or later. The predictable sequence of events when your boat's engine quits is quite different & usually higher risk.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

cannot drift for miles in a car. damned thing stops. drifting in a boat is easy, just use tides and currents wisely. 

i always hated it when my car had issues in booonydocks, boat it doesnot matter unless you are in danger to start with, in which case, oopsy try to plan better if there is a next time.


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## gonecrusin (Aug 23, 2016)

Boats are designed for the loads they see when sailing, don't worry about them.


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## Jrthomus (Jul 29, 2017)

My first boat is a Watkins 27, I wasn’t nervous I was quite excited. With that said I can be very cautious and methodical at how I approach challenges. I practiced and practiced and practiced on one dreary afternoon I pulled the boat out of the slip made a circle and pulled back in tied all the lines then repeated this 10 times that afternoon pulling in bow first and backing in. I can singlehanded do this now in most weather conditions.


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## troy2000 (Apr 7, 2013)

ianjoub said:


> No, I KNOW the way I live my life makes me a man. You appear to have no clue what makes a man. I live my life everyday with very few regrets, wish I could say NO regrets. Can you say the same?
> 
> I am leaving next week on a 10 day sailing trip from St. Pete to The Dry Tortugas on a 53' Jenneau. I am not afraid to leave the dock. I am not afraid to make the sail. I am not afraid of anything I may encounter. I will deal with whatever I need to, hopefully successfully.
> 
> What I won't do is cower on the dock and be afraid to go and live my life.


Are you really a man, or do you just play one on the internet?


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

trevorharris said:


> Thanks again for all the replies! I agree with MarkofSeaLife, this has been a wonderfully interesting thread.
> 
> Just to be clear on my original post though, while I am indeed nervous about the docking an general sailing execution, I'm not as concerned with the gaining of experience in that manner. I've had a few foolish hobbies during my time on this little rock, so I understand those notions.
> 
> ...


Since you are an engineer - do some calculations. Its easy stuff, statics. Find out what the working load is on the shrouds. Calculate what the force is heeling the boat. I bet you find out that its very low stress. During relatively smooth action as the rig loads and unloads the boat,its just like weights spinning around an axis.

The scary time would be if the rig started pumping and if that happens, you must take down a sail , or reef.

But if that is not happening,if the rig is loading up smoothly and the rudder is responding well then you are seeing clear evidence that all is well and the boat is working as designed. I am not scared when I feel the boat working well.That is a clear reality.

You also should develop a set of skills, like reefing and simply know what course to take which will allow you to lower, or more accurately, manage the stress on the boat. So you will have an ability to control the stress. I think as an engineer this will resonate with you. You know the boat can take a large force, but you subject it to less force, and you have all that safety factor. Soon, you probably won't care anymore because the boat has a big factor of safety in the rigging and combined with good management, it will out last you. Finally, we all eventually learn that the boats can take way more than we can. This is what they were built to do.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Sal Paradise said:


> .... pumping.....


This is of concern because the rig pumping leads to fatigue in the standing rigging and it an instant dynamic load... not a static one. It's not likely that the pumping will snap the rigging... but it is damaging the rigging and the swages and it can lead to failure. Look at the swages... this is where the rigging will likely fail if it does.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

SanderO said:


> This is of concern because the rig pumping leads to fatigue in the standing rigging and it an instant dynamic load... not a static one. It's not likely that the pumping will snap the rigging... but it is damaging the rigging and the swages and it can lead to failure. Look at the swages... this is where the rigging will likely fail if it does.


rigging, mast step, supports all affixed related and touching rig will be jerked to death. physics and geometry. follow the tugs and jerks to find the issues. 
my rig began pumping--i fixed mast wedges situation. it did again. retuned rig and masts, pumping returned ... did again,, we stepping masts and replacing mizzen and lower bobstay fitting and shoring up the affixment points, chainplates tangs partners and wedges etc before restepping. and placing a 10 peso piece under each. 
the lil boat i moved another slip away from lost its rig in that ferocious named event. (but, then ALL houses in colimilla lost roofs, so we did good. )


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Lots of stuff going on here. You got some good advice so far with a clown thrown in for comic relief.

The advice for taking time to practice some maneuvers is good, the more you do it the more natural it will feel Eventually you forget to be nervous.

Two years ago I moved from a mooring to a slip in a very tight spot. I set up spring lines and practiced until I could single hand in most conditions. Anything beyond most conditions and I was probably not going out anyway.

Last year I moved to a bigger slip with more room for error. I was NOT at all confident all summer. It took me until just recently to realize that it was because I never practiced, played with different spring line set ups, worked things through in my head, etc., in the same manner I had done the previous year. I've been boating since I was a kid and sailing for nearly 20 years but I got complacent and thought I knew it all. Although I had a very nice slip and spent lots of time on the boat, met nice folks, I think I actually took my boat out less than ever last year.

One final thought. A wise man once told me that all those perfect sails, beautiful sunsets, will all blend into fuzzy memories. What you will remember, the stories you will tell, will be the times when the ****e hits the fan. That time you ran aground and had to wait hours for the tide to turn. That time you got stuck in the fog. The times when the engine over heats in the absolute worst possible time and place. They might not be fun at the time, but later on over a margarita with friends....


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Spartite can replace mast wedges and eliminate unequal pressure points.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Trevor, 
I didn’t realize you were a fellow Newfie! Although I’m a snowbird, the boat winters in Lewisporte and Summers in Bonavista Bay. 

It doesn’t change things much. You are in a wonderful place to sail. Lots of good mates. Make sure you have a good working VHF. I don’t know where you CG station is in the summer, but I’m pretty sure one is near, we have a summer detachment in Lewisporte. Can’t think of one on Bonavista Bay. But some of the fisherman are Auxillary and will be directed to lend assistance if all else fails. Check on those details if it makes you feel better. 

I actually feel safer sailing in Newfoundland than the USA East coast. You generally have an abundance of safe harbors, good water, and fear fewer idiots to contend with. Probably your biggest risk is exposure. Especially alone. We have a couple of cold water work suits. They are like overalls with flotation. They give you a few more hours should you go in. 

But the boat is very unlikely to kill or hurt you. It is also very unlikely you will kill or hurt the boat. 

One of the good things about boating further south is that you get to see how many complete clueless idiots are on the water and yet they survive. By comparison you have already demonstrated good common sense by asking the question. 

Have faith in yourself and your boat. It’s all good.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

In 1943, General Patton slapped a soldier who was hospitalized for psychoneurosis, accusing him of cowardice. George, a warrior and macho man by all accounts, never could understand why that nearly got him court martialed. 

Fearless manly men have always been prized by predators. They make such tasty snacks.

Like that guy who was a "bear whisperer" studying the big bears up in Alaska for so many years. So widely interviewed, so fearless. And one year....all that remained were snack wrappers.

Fear can be a very good thing.


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

...as well as the pieces of the female friend who had trusted him. It's good to not let over-confidence bring you down; better still when it doesn't bring others with you.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

For the manly man who is so desperately insecure that he has to be sure to signal his awesome to everyone around him:









Don't be subtle. Leave no doubt. Otherwise, how would everyone figure it out?


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

amwbox said:


> For the manly man who is so desperately insecure that he has to be sure to signal his awesome to everyone around him:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And for the rest of you...


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## troy2000 (Apr 7, 2013)

I've never been worried by barking dogs. It's the quiet ones I keep my eye on...


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

ianjoub said:


> And for the rest of you...


Oh mah goodness gracious! All this desperately compensatory display is making me blush!


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## baywater (Sep 27, 2011)

Actually think this has been a good thread. Fear or nervousness is very personal and very subjective. But the folks on this list always remind me how generous they can be by admitting to a newbie (and all of us are in some sense) what they had to get out of or learn about and how sometimes the process aint pretty! My Morgan 25 is very sturdy and alot of fun to singlehand which is primarily how I sail. Unlike another boat I had it does not have any bad habits and does not make erratic reactions (one exception is with a full spinnaker). I think when faced with active worry or fear we must engage the beast by applying our thought to the tasks at hand, anticipating solutions and actions appropriate to likely eventualities etc. Be prepared for the unexpected/ practice being_ fully_ aware aka vigilant. At the same time observe what your boat does well in repeated conditions, what needs improvement and 1, if you have a scarey moment but get through intact...thank yourself, the boat and the sea Gods then go home and take the thing apart in sequence and see where a change by you would have improved the experience (or prevented it) and of course ask people more experienced than yourself what they can add to your understanding...
I grew up on powerboats and when in close quarters I am wary because no matter how nimble my 25 footer may be its unable to stop and spin or go hard reverse as quickly as might be necessary in a narrow canal or a yacht club basin.
Its knowing what your boat can do and you knowing how to work with it...prescience, preparation, vigilance. You do your best to be ready and then you wing it! thats part of the fun actually!


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

ianjoub said:


> And for the rest of you...


Seriously buddy &#8230; how old are you?


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## trevorharris (Oct 17, 2016)

Wow, I've been blown away with the response to this question. I can't thank everyone enough for throwing their opinion forward. Seems like we're all very much the same person deep down!

I like the notion of repetition yielding confidence. That'll come with time, for sure.

Perhaps my fear of boat/engine failure comes from this past summer. I did a passage from lewisport to CBS the end of July. The day we left we had a few friends lose their boat due to a seacock letting go. Two days later, we had our engine overheat heading into a small harbour on a windy day. Thankfully the anchor held us in a good spot until we could flag down a fisherman to tow us in. We managed to fix her up in a day and then were on our way again. Until half way between Lumsden and Bonvista and the forestay lets go. We managed to keep the stick up and head into port with our tail between our legs. We repaired that one the next day and beyond all odds, we managed to complete the passage.

So my first season in the water has been... eventful... That being said, every problem has been sourced and fixed and the boat is better because of them, but here's hoping that I'll be finding less of these bugs going forward.

The summer coast guard base is about 500m from our birth, and the bay receives moderate traffic, so I don't think we'll ever be without help within reasonable proximity for our day/weekend sails.

Anyway, to those who are close to me who've responded, please get in touch! I'd love to have a few buddies to sail with over the next few season!

Thanks again so much to everyone who has replied. I've loved reading all the responses.

Trevor


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## Ninefingers (Oct 15, 2009)

Damn! 
If Porter Airlines has a seat sale this summer I may take you up on the offer. And you are welcome on my CS27 anytime.


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## Pendragon35 (Jun 26, 2014)

Ajax_MD said:


> The right amount of fear (or caution, if you prefer) keeps you aware of what's going on around you, causes you to be introspective and think about your actions and decisions but still allows you to function at a high level.


This is the wisest comment I've seen on this thread; not surprised it comes from Ajax. I have an Alberg 35 and I mostly single hand it. I"ve had lots of mistakes and failures, one of which threatened sinking. For the first two years, I was so nervous getting out of the slip that I would make excuses to putter around. I finally realized that's what I was doing and spent some time really working on a set of procedures that would feel secure and now I usually only get unreasonable anxiety docking!

I think caution is helpful: it keeps you alert and present. At the same time, justs doing it, sailing the boat, often teaches what's appropriate caution and what's an unreasonable fear. The second will abate as you get experience; then the danger becomes lack of caution, which means you stop being careful!


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

MikeOReilly said:


> Seriously buddy &#8230; how old are you?


48 in Jan, yet no responses to how things are in Key West right now. I guess all these keyboard jockeys don't actually sail so have no relevant input.


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## oldlaxer1 (Mar 27, 2008)

ianjoub said:


> 48 in Jan, yet no responses to how things are in Key West right now. I guess all these keyboard jockeys don't actually sail so have no relevant input.


Or maybe we don't know how Key West is right now so no need to speculate. Oh wait, this is the internet and uninformed opinions passed on as fact is SOP. Key West is Great.:angel


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Go on You Tube and you can see several videos of how Key West looks and how the cleanup is progressing. Actually, the island fared quite well in comparison to Marathon and Big Pine Key.

Gary


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## trevorharris (Oct 17, 2016)

As tempting as it may be to feed this troll, we're all better off just ignoring him/her.

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

I'm too busy crocheting myself a new pink hat to care.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)




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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I gotta say Ian, you got chops. That's pretty funny stuff. And those doing the name-calling (clown, troll, idiot, skunk, etc.) should kind of rethink their "holier-than-thou" position a bit. That kind of thing is allegedly frowned on around here from what I gather.

Truth is - growing a pair never hurt anyone when it comes to sailing.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Trevor-
"Perhaps my fear of boat/engine failure comes from"
There's a definite learning curve on boats, and as I've often said "Thank god for golf, it keeps the crowd off the water." (Talk about sports that make no sense to observers, like the first sailboat race I saw from a distance.(G)

Many of us, especially city kids, just don't get certain "programming" when we grow up. If we went someplace for the day and were thirsty, there were ALWAYS water fountains. Paying two bucks for a bottle of water? Ludicrous! These days...even the airports shut the fountains and ban you from bringing your own. Hmm...

But the ocean can be a harsh place. It teaches you, really, that it doesn't give a damn who you are. If you put a bottle of soda or cup of coffee down in the cockpit and the boat tacks or rocks...Gone. If you don't learn to respect the boat (and that includes stem-to-stern inspections once in a while) it finds ways to pay you back. Once you realize these things, either you come up the learning curve and find out there's no need to worry so much, or you take up golf.(G)

I don't obsess about rigging, but one day I was killing time, got to a boat early, and decided to peel off and replace all the rigging tape that looked so ratty. And found out that the pin holding the forestay up was almost entirely out of the toggle. Ooopsie, if I hadn't been putting idle time to use, we would have been dismasted sooner or later.

So I don't worry about it, I just make a mental note to check these things out once in a while. How much you check out, how often you do it, how much you worry, all personal decisions. Of course if you take up golf, sometimes you've got to chose between the 8 iron and the 9 iron, too.(G)


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

I once read a quote to the effect that the land was benevolent to humans, providing for all our needs, the sky was uncaring of our passage through it and the sea was malevolent - always seeking a way to kill us.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Trevor,

That run from Lumsden to Bonavista, or visa versa, can be an easy piece cake, or a right nasty mess. I’ve done it a few times. One of my worst passages was this leg. 

One thing folks here advising may not understand is the sense of isolation and the distances involved. That particular run, Lumsden to Bonavista, is right on 42nm, completely open to the Labrador Sea, you may have passed more bergs than boats, although this year they were pretty well gone by then. Cape Freels is “interesting”, if you were to be driven back over those waters there are any number of “sunkers” far off shore. But I think you know all of that. 

You are taking on some relatively challenging sorties. For those runs your apprehension is more well placed than you think. I’ve known more than one long term cruiser who has yet to stick their nose into the Atlantic and/or to do a night Passage. They have tons of resources. And the reassurance of fellow boaters around. 

As to the folks who lost the boat, I heard the brief story from Peter Watkins, but didn’t know them personally. If it was a seacock then it could have been handled by a cedar plug, or even a wash cloth. I carry a 16oz tub of toilet bowl wax, just get some rings and melt them into a plastic tub. Use their tradgedy as a learning experience for yourself. 

I gotta tell ya, if you made it to Bonavista with a broken forestry..... you’ve got the right stuff. Carry on.


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## br3nt (Mar 28, 2009)

smackdaddy said:


> I gotta say Ian, you got chops. That's pretty funny stuff. And those doing the name-calling (clown, troll, idiot, skunk, etc.) should kind of rethink their "holier-than-thou" position a bit. That kind of thing is allegedly frowned on around here from what I gather.
> 
> Truth is - growing a pair never hurt anyone when it comes to sailing.


Err, Smack, I know you've reached celeb status on here but are you kidding? Happy to debate my "holier-than-thou" position against the BS from him. I know you're on probation so we can do that via PM if you like.

I wonder what he would say about a guy going through a personal tragedy.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

smackdaddy said:


> I gotta say Ian, you got chops. That's pretty funny stuff. And those doing the name-calling (clown, troll, idiot, skunk, etc.) should kind of rethink their "holier-than-thou" position a bit. That kind of thing is allegedly frowned on around here from what I gather.
> 
> Truth is - growing a pair never hurt anyone when it comes to sailing.


Ian was the one engaging in "holier than thou" antics, and randomly insulting someone, out of the blue, for no apparent reason. Simply for the sin of posting a topic, it would seem. It was the _reason_ he got the response he got. So...this post is ironic to say the least. But perhaps shared insecurities feed one another. Why else spring to the defense of the instigator acting so insecurely and childishly unless you too feel the need to prove something?

Trevor said nothing offensive in his OP. So it was pretty bizarre behavior on Ian's part to immediately imply Trevor had no nuts and to question his manhood. It must have been something fresh on his mind. And on yours, to defend his actions.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Ianjoub is one of the longest standing trolls on SN. He is a self labelled landlubber who lives on the edge of, or in the Everglades and has never once provided any useful info to anyone here. In addition he has contributed blatantly racist commentary and "jokes" that have gotten him flicked in the past.

Generally a complete waste of space in my experience.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I don't know anything about the history of the dude - apart from hearing that he got mercilessly (and ridiculously) jumped by The Posse for a tongue-in-cheek hurricane thread he started. So, I'm just going on what's in this thread. The beating he's taking here seems a bit over the top...and FAR too serious. What happened to sailors having some fun on a sailing forum? Good grief. You guys just seem seriously uptight and hypocritical here with all the name-calling. He didn't do that in this thread, so why are you guys going all in on it? I certainly couldn't get away with that. 

Anyway, because my personal policy is I don't really give a damn what newb posters (e.g. - pre-2011) have to say about "forum etiquette" (yawn), Br3nt - either PM me or email me via my blog and let me know what's up (you're right, I can't have open discussions like that here). I just don't see the issue. Is this flowing over from PRWG or something?

Beyond that and on-topic - I'm always nervous before I head offshore. But I just grow a pair and go. Not really rocket surgery. And it's worked out thus far.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

ianjoub said:


> I would ask "what are you nervous about"? If you can identify the issues and address them in your own mind, you should no longer be nervous. I would suggest that it is best to identify ones fears/concerns and address them before setting off. That is what manning up/ growing a pair is.


To my point above - what the hell is wrong with this? I totally agree with him. This is good advice - a "valuable contribution to SN". What do you see that's so wrong here?


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

And what equally polite advice do you have for a female sailor?


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## willyd (Feb 22, 2008)

Sal Paradise said:


> I figure the boat was designed and tested to do this. The only times I am a little nervous is when the wind really pipes up and I am single handing it. My fear then is mostly of falling overboard. That said, I think every one gets a little nervous.My wife gets really scared but I find if I blast the black keys really loud she gets over it. So maybe some music would help you.


Perhaps this would be more appropriate:






I feel nervous all the time while heading out, unless it's a flat calm, then I feel frustrated. I've found that becoming becalmed for a long period helps me welcome stronger breezes, since the boat is finally moving, damnit. I also feel like I could never handle a boat longer than what I have now. Anything longer than 25' seems way too big, despite having sailed a 45' sloop double handed across the Mediterranean, which meant I was on watch alone half of the trip. Fear can be kind of irrational. In _The Boat Who Wouldn't Float_, the author takes a dose of liquor before heading out; I assume it was a coping mechanism, despite all sorts of experience with the sea.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

I don't think it's an issue of courage. Plenty of scared people stay home and watching TV on their days off. Trevor goes out. In another realm, the world of motorcycle forums, some riders talk about that fear that comes on before setting out a long ride. Cross country there = offshore here. Anyone with that fear and going anyway is someone I will ride/sail with. They are aware of the danger.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

So we're down to explaining jokes now? This is how you justify the above pile-on?

Okay - "grow a pair" is a nonsensical metaphor which means you should face your fear and go through with whatever it is you've planned to do but for which you have some level of trepidation. This much is universally understood.

Now to your very unfunny and misguided anatomical distinction. You somewhat sexistly assume that "a pair" is only for men. _Au contraire_ - Sam Davies has a bigger pair than you, me, anyone on this forum, and virtually any sailor I've ever met. So, it is in this regard that the phrase has universal application.

But where you lose the strand is that just as a male cannot physically "grow a pair" of anything - a female need not suddenly produce some coupled physical appendage in order to have courage. _Yet they both must have juevos_. In fact, from said anatomical perspective, they both DO have juevos in somewhat similar forms - but that's still not enough to have courage.

Are you starting to see how the joke works now? Can you guys maybe grow a sense of humor?


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

smackdaddy said:


> Anyway, because my personal policy is I don't really give a damn what newb posters (e.g. - pre-2011) have to say about "forum etiquette" (yawn),


Who gave you the authority to arbitrarily define a newb poster?

This is a sailing forum, I'd be more concerned about sailing experience than time on the internet reading and posting about sailing.

Do you have an equally arbitrary definition of newb sailor? Is it number of years posting on the internet about sailing? Is it miles sailed, is it variety of vessels sailed, is it oceans crossed? Where do you sit in relation to your experience mile stones?


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

smackdaddy said:


> I don't know anything about the history of the dude - apart from hearing that he got mercilessly (and ridiculously) jumped by The Posse for a tongue-in-cheek hurricane thread he started. So, I'm just going on what's in this thread. The beating he's taking here seems a bit over the top...and FAR too serious. What happened to sailors having some fun on a sailing forum? Good grief. You guys just seem seriously uptight and hypocritical here with all the name-calling. He didn't do that in this thread, so why are you guys going all in on it? I certainly couldn't get away with that.


Well I do.

Smackers - your situation is akin to someone who came in well along on the BS Origami thread. 

Take a look back at some posting history before you form too strong an opinion on this one.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

SloopJonB said:


> Well I do.
> 
> Smackers - your situation is akin to someone who came in well along on the BS Origami thread.
> 
> Take a look back at some posting history before you form too strong an opinion on this one.


No way. I can't be bothered to research crap like that. I'm only going by what I see in this thread.

Is most of it coming out of PWRG?

*Edit: Okay I went and looked at the first 2 pages of his posts which go back about a month. I see absolutely nothing that would merit the above treatment.*


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Can't recall - frankly I don't know how he got off my ignore list - which he is back on.

I can see your viewpoint but trust me on this, don't spend a lot of time in his support - you'll find it was a mistake.

Remember, even BS had the occasional bit of non-nonsense.

Blind squirrels and all that.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I edited my post above. I don't see anything in those posts that would deserve a beatdown.

And I'm not defending _him_, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of those attacking the guy in this thread just because they don't like him from some other interaction - even getting a newb (who knows nothing about the guy) to pile on. Just because it's a group doing it doesn't make it okay. In fact, it makes it more lame in my opinion. As I said, I would be immediately perma-banned if I called anyone names like this. It's just a double-standard. That's all.

If he is as bad as Brent - fine. I just don't see it. Maybe I'll go back another couple of pages.

*Edit - 5 pages back, still don't see it. This is definitely not like Brent. You could see his stuff on any and every page of his posts.*


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## jongleur (Mar 16, 2013)

troy2000 said:


> I've never been worried by barking dogs. It's the quiet ones I keep my eye on...


I've recently been attacked by several dogs while out 
walking or riding my bike. They all barked and a 
couple of them bit me. It doesn't say anything if a 
dog is barking or not. Their owners are still ***holes.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

smackdaddy said:


> I edited my post above. I don't see anything in those posts that would deserve a beatdown.
> 
> And I'm not defending _him_, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of those attacking the guy in this thread just because they don't like him from some other interaction - even getting a newb (who knows nothing about the guy) to pile on. Just because it's a group doing it doesn't make it okay. In fact, it makes it more lame in my opinion. As I said, I would be immediately perma-banned if I called anyone names like this. It's just a double-standard. That's all.
> 
> ...


Maybe....just maybe it has nothing to do with previous posts at all. Give people credit including the OP who was honest and asking for advice and was told to "grow a pair."

Giving people credit as intelligent and forming their own opinions would lead something unthinkable to those who always cry victims of people ganging up on them or being held to different standards. May... just maybe these intelligent people came to the SAME conclusion. A fact hard to face.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

smackdaddy said:


> So we're down to explaining jokes now? This is how you justify the above pile-on?
> 
> Okay - "grow a pair" is a nonsensical metaphor which means you should face your fear and go through with whatever it is you've planned to do but for which you have some level of trepidation. This much is universally understood.
> 
> ...


And to think I asked Santa for a box of mindless drivel. It is a bonafide Xmas miracle.


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## JohnBPrice (Aug 10, 2014)

*How about an emergency backup plan*

I find that having a backup plan helps to alleviate being nervous, "Where can I dock if I lose my engine?". If you have an *ultimate* backup plan, e.g. an insurance policy with good liability, a life raft with EPirb, etc., then it may alleviate some stress. So you lose your mast, your keel falls off, and you crash into a million dollar boat, it's not going to wreck your life. If everything goes bad, it's not the end of the world.

Now, without the stress, you can get on with the normal seamanship tasks to make sure none of those things actually do happen.

Disregard the arguments about if life rafts are necessary, you get it so that you can enjoy sailing without being stressed, you will never use it.

Ian, of course, does not need a life raft. I've heard he can swim the Atlantic. In winter. Naked. Because, you know, he is a REAL man.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

There's never a shortage of sailing "Legends" on the interwebby.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Legend%20in%20his%20own%20mind


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## BillFalls44 (Dec 11, 2017)

MikeOReilly said:


> Yup &#8230; no such things up our way. Although you might be able to get a tow from a local fishing vessel.
> 
> Like so many have said here Trevor, a little bit of nervousness is normal and a good thing. As long as it doesn't become debilitating it's good to be a little bit on edge. Mechanical failures do happen. Good maintenance and awareness of your surroundings and your vessel will go a long way to minimizing any problems you might have. They will still happen, but in some way, it's all part of the joy of this life.
> 
> You've already proven your mettle by successfully sailing no small distance through challenging waters in a relatively small vessel. Keep moving at your own pace, ignore the macho idiots, and you'll be fine.


I agree with this.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

chef2sail said:


> Maybe....just maybe it has nothing to do with previous posts at all.


That's opposite of what Sloop said, but if that's the case, then The Posse blowback here is WAY out of proportion as I said above. Many of you guys (including you) escalated it in this thread when you could have just left it as the silly comment it was meant to be. So you guys are really no different than Ian here - you just use different tactics.



chef2sail said:


> Giving people credit as intelligent and forming their own opinions would lead something unthinkable to those who always cry victims of people ganging up on them or being held to different standards. May... just maybe these intelligent people came to the SAME conclusion. A fact hard to face.


Maybe - but that wasn't really the case in this thread as I've mentioned. There seems to be a continuing problem on SN with certain groups of people getting away with behavior that would get other members banned.

I don't think that's right - at all. So I said something.

Now back to my regularly scheduled egg-nog.


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

You lot need to sail more and write less...Anyone want to crew Japan to Alaska?

Phil


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Yorksailor said:


> You lot need to sail more and write less...Anyone want to crew Japan to Alaska?
> 
> Phil


Real men do both. Heh.

As for Japan to Alaska - what's it on? I don't sail without my boys these days. So my crewing days are pretty much over. But that does sound like quite an adventure.


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

Well equipped Tayana 55, I have over 60,000 blue water miles.

I am in the Marshal Islands, my wife and I are sailing to Japan and then friends will help sail Osaka, Dutch Harbor, Kodiak to Sitka; about 50 days for the trip including layovers. 
One of my crew is vacillating. 

Phil


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## willyd (Feb 22, 2008)

Yorksailor said:


> One of my crew is vacillating.


Maybe he's nervous.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Tell him or her to grow a pair...and lodge a complaint here on SN if offended.

Dutch Harbor in winter? Sounds heavenly. Why this timeline?


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

I still haven't figured out how growing pears helps with nervousness ?????? Have I entered a parallel universe where sailing and farming have been confused ????


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

Time line is July 4th for Dutch Harbor! Staying south of 15N until April.


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

ianjoub said:


> . "Most people I have met are so afraid of dying, they are afraid to live!"


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Yorksailor said:


> Time line is July 4th for Dutch Harbor! Staying south of 15N until April.


That sounds like a good plan. Are you going to document the trip? It would be great to follow along.


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## Waterrat (Sep 8, 2007)

I love Canadians. We really need some more Canada in this world.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I'm nervous about the next direction this thread may take.


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## seabeau (Oct 5, 2014)

I tend to get nervous while entering/exiting our shallow coastal inlets here in the Southeast in a contrary tide and wind combination. After being "pooped", say three times or four times in several minutes, trying to differentiate the draining sounds made by the side deck scuppers, cockpit scuppers, footwell drains, all different from the sounds of pressurized flow from the two bilge pumps, I tend to get anxious. Especially if I have guest/passengers/crew who have never been subjected to walls of water crashing over them and filling a boat's cockpit full of water, screaming their bloody heads off. That screaming crap will make anyone nervous.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

I'm a little late to this party. 

Quit with the personal jabs. Everyone learns differently and at his or her own pace. Wherever one's personal comfort zone is, it doesn't make him or her less or more than anyone else. The lucky ones are those who are surrounded by people who encourage with compassion and who remember when they first started or tried something that made them uncomfortable. 

Bullies need not apply. So just stop.

'Tis the friggin' season forcryingoutloud.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Donna_F said:


> I'm a little late to this party.
> 
> Quit with the personal jabs. Everyone learns differently and at his or her own pace. Wherever one's personal comfort zone is, it doesn't make him or her less or more than anyone else. The lucky ones are those who are surrounded by people who encourage with compassion and who remember when they first started or tried something that made them uncomfortable.
> 
> ...


Hey, where've you been? I hope we're going to see you on the water in 2018.


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## Guyfromthenorth (Jul 2, 2015)

To the OP, I think that if you are nervous you just need to take some time to think about 'why'. What makes you nervous? What can you do to mitigate it?

For example, I have 2 "topics" of worry. The first is an equipment failure, so what would be the scale of "worsts" for me?

1)Keel falling off.
-Check your feel bolts
-Check your keel joint each haul out and when swimming
-Keep it off the hard stuff

2)Rudder falling off.
-Check the rudder yearly for signs of delam or signs of water penetration
-Check the rudder hardware before each trip (pintles, etc)
-Again, keep it off the hard stuff

3)Mast falling over.
-Inspect the standing rigging 2x a year (splash in and haul out)
-Replace BEFORE it fails (spring 2018 for me)
-Before each trip check the turnbuckles for tension and cotter pins\clevis pins
-Reef early and never let the rig pump hard in a blow
-Don't hit any bridges

4)Complete engine death. 
_*This one used to be higher on my list, there are no tow boats\services where my marina is, but this summer I had 2 engine failures and had to sail back to my slip (threading a needle is a better term), the experience has brought it down the "scary" scale for me_
-Change the oil ahead of schedule (it's a small engine and this is cheap)
-Repair ALL oil related leaks asap as this is the engines lifeblood
-Warm the engine up and cool it down before\after use
-Properly winterize it BEFORE the first heavy freeze
-Learn to live without it if it does break down by being better a technical tight quarter sailing or always have an anchor ready to toss when near a leeshore

The second is a "I f#$ked this up failure":

1)Someone drowning\getting critically hurt.
-Safety briefings for all who step on board before departure.
-SPOT unit.
-Working VHF.
-Man overboard equipment.
-Tethers and harnesses, and rules on their use.
-Knowing the cut off for when it is no longer safe to work the forward deck in a storm regardless of tether.
-No getting drunk (I know, a literal buzz killer lol)

2)HARD grounding.
-Get a good chartplotter with updated accurate charts.
-Install good quality depth sounder\sonar that shows bottom detail
-Study the paper charts for new areas.
-Check out google earth and other overhead imagery for new islands\areas to look for reefs and rocks that may or may not be seen on charts.
-PAY ATTENTION WHEN SAILING (watch for changes in wave shape, birds that seem to be "sitting" on the water, dark shapes that do not move up and down with swell, etc)

3)Washing up on a leeshore.
-Get the best WX forecast possible before heading out.
-Plan anchorages accordingly.
-WATCH for changes in the weather.
-ALWAYS set an anchor alarm, even when just anchoring to fire up the BBQ.
-Dive the anchor before it gets dark.
-Always anchor in sandy or muddy areas unless it absolutely can't be done.

Anyways, sorry for the long post but I thought I'd go over some of the things I did to sort out my own nervousness. Even with all the above mitigation can something still happen? Of course. If it could have been prevented by doing something different then make sure you remember that mistake for next time. If not, then why worry? Sometimes life will just find a way to snap you anyways. The important part is that BEING worried is a sign of respecting the dangers of what you are doing, and maintaining situational awareness of the hazards around you at any given time.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Donna_F said:


> I'm a little late to this party.
> 
> Quit with the personal jabs. Everyone learns differently and at his or her own pace. Wherever one's personal comfort zone is, it doesn't make him or her less or more than anyone else. The lucky ones are those who are surrounded by people who encourage with compassion and who remember when they first started or tried something that made them uncomfortable.
> 
> ...


Well, I'm glad I wasn't the only one seeing it. And I'm glad you used the plural - because it certainly wasn't just one. Well done.

The only nitpick I'd provide is in addition to "compassion" there is also "humor" which is a long-standing tradition in both sailing and on Sailnet. People should remember that ribbing each other is a good thing. Being overly serious and easily offended is never fun at friggin' parties.


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## oldlaxer1 (Mar 27, 2008)

Smack, you keep going back to the humor shtick. Maybe if the OP and Ian and the rest of the posters were best buddies I could see it but coming from a stranger it is a bit of a stretch to call some of it humor. 
"So, get over it, grow a pair, ACT like a man because obviously you will never be one, and experience life before it leaves you."
" I KNOW the way I live my life makes me a man. You appear to have no clue what makes a man"
"Everyone who knows me knows I am a real man. I certainly don't worry about apologizing to puffs over it."
"A real man can afford to go on any boat he pleases. Sorry for you that you are poor."

I did think the pink hat was a pretty funny comeback though!

Why Ian couldn't have simply come back with what he said later instead of all the chest thumping is where I'm confused. "I would ask "what are you nervous about"? If you can identify the issues and address them in your own mind, you should no longer be nervous. I would suggest that it is best to identify ones fears/concerns and address them before setting off."


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

smackdaddy said:


> The only nitpick I'd provide is in addition to "compassion" there is also "humor" which is a long-standing tradition in both sailing and on Sailnet. People should remember that ribbing each other is a good thing. Being overly serious and easily offended is never fun at friggin' parties.


Smackie, you of all people should know that humour transmits poorly over these forums. And blaming the recipient for not getting what you call a _good-natured-ribbing_ is like farting in an elevator and then blaming people for not enjoying the smell.

Effective communication is determined by the communicator, not the recipient. Even if you are correct in characterizing Ian's posts as attempted humour (which I don't think they were), then he should have quickly realized he was failing as a communicator. Instead, he kept coming back, piling on with harsher and more insulting quips.

(oldlaxer1, thanks for presenting them all here)


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

The OP himself registered Ian's initial "grow a pair" post as a joke (look back at his posts) - which it was.

It wasn't until the others started directly hammering on Ian that the stuff you're now quoting started turning up - starting with Contrarian calling him a "a boy", then Chef jumping in by saying he's not a real man because he's taking a 53' boat to the Keys, then br3nt with "sexless troll", etc.

Ian is responding to these jabs by these guys in your quotes above - not the OP. And like I said, I went back and looked at Ian's posts 5-pages deep and don't see anything that would warrant chop-busting like that.

Then at this point, the OP jumps on the troll wagon. And the pile-on grows.

So, that's my point. Again, I'm not defending Ian. He went a bit overboard a few times for sure. But, seriously, if a guy is getting jumped by a group why shouldn't he punch back (didn't he get the same treatment in his hurricane thread)?

I'm just saying that The Posse is as much a part of the problem as anyone else. *Everyone* should be held to the same standard. *Period*.

As for comedy gold, there are two classics in this thread...

This ironic quote from contrarian:



> Like Cap'n Ron said " If it's going to happen it's going to happen out there" . The fact that someone would tell you to simply " grow a pair " indicates they lack a respect for good judgement.


And the pink crochet tuke:










Classic.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

"What we have heah, son, is a failure to communicate" Damned, I loved watching that movie! 

Happy New Year, Guys and Gals,

Gary


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

travlin-easy said:


> "What we have heah, son, is a failure to communicate" Damned, I loved watching that movie!
> ............


shaking the bush, boss...

Yeah, a real classic


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## oldlaxer1 (Mar 27, 2008)

travlin-easy said:


> "What we have heah, son, is a failure to communicate" Damned, I loved watching that movie!
> 
> Happy New Year, Guys and Gals,
> 
> Gary


Same actor, different Paul Neuman film, "Morons, I've got morons on my team. They don't shoot you going down the mountain...."


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## dmdelorme (Jun 18, 2016)

Grow a pair Of what???? Boobs would be nice for a while. Then reality would set in back pain, $$ of support bras, fending of men who still think it is 1960, RM, DT, HW, no thanks..

I am a new Sailer too and do get nervous but that is good it make me think stuff through bit. It will pass with experience.
I am learning Solo so everthing needs a bit of thought and more safety. For example. If i fall off with autopilot on I better be attached to a jack line and have a way to get back into the boat. I use a small web ladder stuffed into my jacket. rope dragging behind the boat would not work. try it. 
I laugh at my self some times because i paddled the same lake in a 16 foot Canoe with out any of the same trepidation but that was because i have spent years in a canoe.. Experience = confidence.
sooo Dont worry just take your time and learn. there are lots of videos of "REAL MEN" with there boats on rocks, docks, bridges, other boats..... 
From my experience the sailing community is awesome and if you need a hand or advise they are more then willing to help. 
"A pair off boobs" I will pass on for now as shaving them would be just a pain when the boat is bouncing around.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

dmdelorme said:


> "A pair off boobs" I will pass on for now as shaving them would be just a pain when the boat is bouncing around.


Heh-heh. More gold.


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## arknoah (Oct 31, 2010)

MikeOReilly said:


> Hi Trevor, and welcome. Ignore all the silly bravado. Sail your own sail. Being nervous is not unusual. It's the sign that you are paying attention to the very real challenges of sailing and cruising. Don't let it debilitate you though &#8230; that is where it tips into dysfunction.
> 
> But ignore the calls to "man up" or "grow a pair." This is kindergarten talk. Moving at your own pace is what being a REAL 'person' is all about.


'Nuff said. I've had my MacGregor 25 since 2010 and while I am pretty confident when I singlehand -- which is much of the time -- I got there by moving the edge of my comfort zone _*over time*_, then pushed the limits to gain a new level of skill.

I noticed a year or so ago that I was heading out into a bit of chop and current that five years ago, would have had me heading back into the marina. All gaining confidence takes is time, experience, and a willingness to challenge yourself.

Good luck!


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## trevorharris (Oct 17, 2016)

smackdaddy said:


> The OP himself registered Ian's initial "grow a pair" post as a joke


Yes, initially I did, but reading my response in full context shows that my initial presumption was incorrect. I had hoped it was a joke, but his further posts proved much to the contrary. oldlaxer1 laid all his childish nature out plainly to see on the bottom of page 13. Thanks for that, by the way.

While your defence of him is honorable, I do share the majority opinion that he's been quite demeaning and rude. He's even stooped so low as to insult peoples financial status. He is the objective definition of a troll. I'm glad he hasn't posted much since, to be honest.

It's a real shame this important thread (or at least its important to me) has been bordered by this childish nonsense. Sure, people can give opinions to the contrary, of course. It would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. But there is no reason for impudence. I hope it stops here.

---------------------
Thanks again for everyone sharing their opinion! Guyfromthenorth, you've listed out quite the check list for me! I'll be sure to save this for the future!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

trevorharris said:


> Yes, initially I did, but...


That's all I'm saying - trev. Again, what you responded to thereafter was not his response to *you* - but to others who were *insulting him*. So call a spade a spade. There's no reason to gang up on someone.

As Sloop said, there's a lot going on behind the scenes here on SN that has been going on for a long time. And my point herein has been - and still is - that fair should be fair. People can't troll a guy then call *him* the troll. That's not how it works. I know.

In any case, I've been around the question of nervousness and sailing since the day I joined this forum in 2008. From "FightClub For Sailors" - to the more pertinent Big Freakin' Sails, it's always been about facing that nervousness (whether about the boat or the talent or the readiness) and pushing the limits as most have said here. That's really what sailing is all about. Always.

Whether you want to call it "growing a pair" or "having a set of stones" or "if it's gonna happen it's gonna happen out there" or "being prepared as you can be and heading out" - it still comes down to the same thing...leaving the dock when you're not absolutely sure about the outcome.

This is what Ian was basically saying. And he's right.

It all comes down to what I laid out in the FightClub thread here about 10 years ago...



> *The Philosophy of The Stones:*
> When it comes to big sailing, what are "stones" really? Quite simply, it can all be broken down as follows:
> 
> 1. One-Part Zest for Adventure and Excitement (left-hanging)
> ...


At that point - *I* was the newbie. I'm not now. And I was right...then - and still am. You just have to *go* - and be smart about it. Then take whatever is coming. Whatever you do, don't hug the dock.

So, my advice? Have a few Dark-n-Stormies and enjoy being around sailors...even the annoying ones. You'll learn something from all of them...and get a good laugh while you go.


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

Smacky,
You seem to have a penchant for taking on lost causes and seeming to have to have the last word. Trevor's last post was most eloquent and should have put this thread to bed. Let it rest dude, you're not changing any minds here about how this thing progressed.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Gotta love it when people argue about whether they are arguing, especially once they start mostly doing it with themself.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Back on topic... some systems can fail with no forewarning. So what we try to do and believe that we have maintained them well and they won't fail... or that there will be some forewarning which gives us time to deal with it.

I think losing steering is a real bummer. If you are away from other boats... you might be able to drift or anchor and call for a tow or assistance. If not you need to make sure you don't hit other boats or they hit you. You can prepare mentally for losing steering in a crowded place...

Losing power is almost as bad as losing steering and at times could be worse.... actually they are cousins. These cousins are problems in crowded harbors around boats and hard things in the water. Lee shores are a separate matter.. but your boat and skill should be able to stay clear of disaster.

I did losing steering (manual) when approaching the dock in the channel with scores of boats moored and some in the channel. I had two gals on board who would have loved to help but were totally incompetent... so it was me alone. I was fortunate to be able to engage the AP and steer out of that potential disaster. This incident was a reminder to do regular inspections and maintenance on the steering... same for the engine.

I have had engine overheating issues over the years from all the usual causes... clogged thru hull. leaking clogged exhaust elbo... cracked hose or filter housing. Fortunately the temp gauge tells me when the cooling system is not doing its thing. I check that frequently when motor is on... and the hoses and so on. But sh*t happens and at the worst moment and so all you can do is have strategies for dealing with the consequences. But often you have no pre planned work around... or pre rehearsed. It's up to you seamanship and smarts... and your experience.

Don't let fear get in the way of doing what you want to do.


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## trevorharris (Oct 17, 2016)

SanderO said:


> I think losing steering is a real bummer.


Yeah, that sounds sufficiently terrifying. I've thought about perhaps using an ore and the pushpit to give me some level of control, but I'm betting I wouldn't be overly happy with the results. I also her you can steer using the sails somehow, but I have yet to even google that one.

How did you loose your steering? Sounds like your system is somewhat more complex than mine. I have a rudder and tiller. Just a stick and steel rod - not much simpler than that. But I'm still betting I can loose it somehow.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

^^^ I have broken a couple of tillers. There can be quite a bit of shier force where the tiller meets the tiller head. Its worth inspecting from time to time. Usually pretty easy to jury rig a repair though. Theres actually quite a bit of play in mine right now. Ill probably put it off replacing it for another year and have it break on me though...


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## troy2000 (Apr 7, 2013)

SanderO said:


> I think losing steering is a real bummer.


There are probably worse ways to spend time than pulling your rudder (or tying it off if it's fixed) sometime when you're in a stretch of open water, and trying to steer just using your sails and raising/lowering your centerboard...

Small boats are a different matter, of course. St. Lawrence skiffs didn't even have a rudder. A helmsman steered one by shifting his weight, and adjusting the set of his sail and fan-shaped centerboard.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I have a whitlock steering. See this exploded diagram:

http://ovniclub.free.fr/dossiers/whitlock/Cobra-steering.pdf

What happened was that the the brake collar held by 4 bolts got loose. As I mostly use the AP I didn't notice that it felt odd. SalPardise did however because he like to helm.

So finally the bolts slipped out and pinion shaft part #12 backed out and off quadrant gear... so turning the helm did not engage the quadrant gear.

Of course I didn't know what had failed. When I got back to the mooring without incident using the AP which connects directly to the rubber shaft/post.... I was able to dis- assemble it and the bolts slid out... threads were no good! I had to clean, lube , drill and tap larger threads and re assemble and it is fine.

How did this happen? My guess is that the break is NOT effective. Shiva shears ALOT in strong winds.. to the sea is pushing the rudder. If it is not locked you can see it turn from one side to the other. But locking it has worn down the "lock collar" so it is ineffective and the helm will go back and forth when I am not around.. on the mooring. And this back and forth is torquing the 4 bolts that were holding #12 tight. The helm MUST not move when is is locked.

Of course we turn the helm... but much much less than it would in short cycles during a storm when moored... and normal steering is not torquing or leveraging those 4 bolts.

Now I secure the helm when away with lines so it stays put CL. I will order the damaged brake parts and replace and see how that holds it.

Obviously being away from the boat I did not see this wearing away going on and it's hidden inside the brake assembly and has no impact of the AP steering the boat.

I am not sure if this is the correct explanation... but it rings true for me.

Thank dog for Allison my Alpha AP... She saved the day. And now you know the rest of the story.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I have lost steering in windy conditions when the push rod snapped on my rack and pinion steering system. It was a bit of a mess at first since the broken rod was whipping about and poking holes in the bulkhead. Step one was wire tying the stub of the rod to the steering arm before the rod could poke a hole in the hull.

Once I got that under control I began the process of rigging the emergency tiller. Unfortunately once I got the emergency tiller rigged, I discovered that the key between the rudder head and rudder post had not been installed in the keyway when we had rebuilt the rudder a few years earlier. So instead of steering the boat, the emergency tiller was undoing the nut which keeps the rudder attached to the boat. 

So I went onto plan C since we were in the shipping channel with a ship coming our way. Plan C was to balance the sails an steer with the main sheet. My boat has a very neutral helm so I was able to steer by playing the main sheet. That worked pretty well. 

I eventually took a tow since steering with the sails was not precise enough to sail up a narrow channel and up to a dock. 

Since then I have installed the key in the keyway and experimented with steering with the emergency tiller. That worked quite well, but it requires removing the steering wheel and storing it. I now have a dedicated socket wrench for the restraining nut on the wheel. 

Jeff


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Jeff_H said:


> I have lost steering in windy conditions when the push rod snapped on my rack and pinion steering system. It was a bit of a mess at first since the broken rod was whipping about and poking holes in the bulkhead. Step one was wire tying the stub of the rod to the steering arm before the rod could poke a hole in the hull.
> 
> Once I got that under control I began the process of rigging the emergency tiller. Unfortunately once I got the emergency tiller rigged, I discovered that the key between the rudder head and rudder post had not been installed in the keyway when we had rebuilt the rudder a few years earlier. So instead of steering the boat, the emergency tiller was undoing the nut which keeps the rudder attached to the boat.
> 
> ...


Shiva has an emergency tiller which goes down onto the top of the rudder post.... by passing the Whitlock system. I tried it out when I first got the boat a few decades ago but haven't since. I think another try is in order this Spring.

I have emailed for replacement parts so the brake will work and not destroy the steering!

Thanks for poking me on this!


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## willyd (Feb 22, 2008)

Jeff_H said:


> So I went onto plan C since we were in the shipping channel with a ship coming our way. Plan C was to balance the sails an steer with the main sheet. My boat has a very neutral helm so I was able to steer by playing the main sheet. That worked pretty well. f


Isn't enough force to make steering difficult (or even break a tiller, as mentioned a few posts up) the indication that your sails aren't balanced? I know on my boat it is. (sorry for the thread drift- couldn't figure out how to incorporate pink hats, testosterone or internetiquette)


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The OP will be safer and become wiser, being a little nervous, than anyone who casts that aside and considers themselves better than they really are.


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

smackdaddy said:


> The OP himself registered Ian's initial "grow a pair" post as a joke (look back at his posts) - which it was.
> 
> It wasn't until the others started directly hammering on Ian that the stuff you're now quoting started turning up - starting with Contrarian calling him a "a boy", then Chef jumping in by saying he's not a real man because he's taking a 53' boat to the Keys, then br3nt with "sexless troll", etc.
> 
> ...


Seriously Smack?

Usually I enjoy your attempted "mythbusting" but this time I think you've misread the facts.

Post 1: OP states he's nervous
Post 2: Ian says grow a pair
Post 3: directed solely to OP
Post 4: directed solely to OP
Post 5: directed to OP with a small comment "The fact that someone would tell you to simply " grow a pair " indicates they lack a respect for good judgement."
Post 6: Ian fires back with "... ACT like a man because obviously you will never be one..."

Then it all goes to hell...

Seriously? "ACT like a man because obviously you will never be one" can be construed as humour? I guess if I am with my closest buddies and we are drinking, but otherwise...? More likely to get you a punch in the face anywhere other than the internet.

To the OP, I watched a video last night where an Irish river cruiser was pinned by the current against a bridge just outside of marina. So go ahead and be nervous, scared or ****-your-pants terrified. As long as it keeps you on your toes and keeps you from thinking you're invincible...


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

^Yep.

Went off the rails idiotically at post #2.

Indefensible. At least one would think...we'd not still be here arguing about a childish, nine word post if not for someone feeling a need to defend it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

There is no rational, mature adult that I know that would say "grow a pair" in a public place and think it was anything but a criticism. Please. Ian wasn't kidding and has not suggested he was.

Ian doubled down on the first response that simply said "indicates they lack a respect for good judgement". That's hardly piling on, it's a non-emotional counter point. To which Ian quoted that comment and replied......



> Or, it could indicate manhood. What are you afraid of? We all die. Get over it.
> 
> I have good judgement. I also think it is more important to live, than to continue to live. Most people I have met are so afraid of dying, they are afraid to live!
> 
> So, get over it, grow a pair, ACT like a man because obviously you will never be one, and experience life before it leaves you.


I can ironically respect the fact that Ian owns what he said, even if I think it was out of line. Defending it like it was appropriate behavior, or symptomatic of anything other than self-policing proper societal behavior, is ridiculous and telling. Some of that self-policing also went too far, but it flames out pretty quickly, unless continually provoked.


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## Ninefingers (Oct 15, 2009)

smackdaddy said:


> And the pink crochet tuke:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't quite get the use of a ***** Hat. Appropriating a symbol of women's rights seams a bit odd, not very funny in this case, and perhaps a bit ignorant. Unless someone can explain the joke. Considering the amount of abominations against women in the past year, I'm not sure using a symbol for women's rights in 2017 is the right ticket into the funny bone.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Daddy's post does not belong in this thread... nor does most of what he thinks is humor belong either.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

There is a huge difference between being a bit nervous and being crippled by fear.


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

This show's my wife's emotional state as we leave French Polynesia headed for Tonga and New Zealand! 

Phil


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

So wait, since moderators have seen this thread, and Sailnet still has the paramount rule of "BE NICE"... then we must all be missing the point. The instruction to grow a pair surely must have been meant as an appropriately civil and constructive solution, since the mods have seen it and had no problem with that versus "BE NICE".

Which brings up the incidental question, how did who know IF there already were a pair, or if another pair (or a pair at all) were appropriate? Scandalous!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

MacBlaze said:


> Seriously Smack?
> 
> Usually I enjoy your attempted "mythbusting" but this time I think you've misread the facts.


Blaze, I was done with this thread but because you've asked a straight up question - let me try this one more time. I fully realize that ianjoub can be a hurtling cannon sometimes with his rhetoric - and like I said earlier, I'm not necessarily defending *him*. Again, I think he definitely went over the line a few times. But he wasn't the only one.

I'm just pointing out the fact that *others* do a pretty damn good job of *trolling him* - then collectively pile-on and cry foul when he responds. And that's seriously lame - and very hypocritical. I heard he got the same treatment in a hurricane thread he started here - which got shut down I think after this same kind of thing was pointed out (and not by me as I wasn't here). I'd have to look back. But if that's the case, I could understand him being a bit touchy on the trigger.

Anyway - to the facts as you list them...because the facts *are* important...

_(PS - I'm not supposed to multiquote stuff like this because it can apparently look like I'm getting in the face of the poster. All I can say is that I certainly don't intend this to be that, I'm just responding to what you said in order. So take it as intended - as a response to your question. Nothing else.)_



MacBlaze said:


> Post 1: OP states he's nervous
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> ...


Yep it does. Contrarian now calls ian a "boy" (#7) - now throwing *direct* shots (and crossing that "civility" threshold too?). Chef joins in immediately thereafter (#8) with his own indirect shot at ian. Ian responds to contrarian's "attack" with a pretty level-headed post (#9) - but ignores Chef's post. Other posters respond to the OP and we seem to be back on track with things dying down - until Chef takes another *now direct shot* at ian (#12), attacking his "manhood" on the choice of the 53' Jeanneau *from ian's response to contrarian - not Chef*. Ian has said nothing to Chef at this point to provoke this.

So we now have two guys taking shots at ian. Look at ian's next post responding to Chef (#13) - what do you see there that is so out of line in relation to the above? The "sorry you are poor" comment is pretty tame in my opinion considering (remember Chef has now taken two swipes at him). He's keeping a pretty level head I think - *for ian*.

Then he's challenged by gama (#16), then REALLY slammed by br3nt (#18) as a "single, sexless troll", etc. We then have a few on-topic replies - then we come full circle to the OP's response about thinking it was joke (#21) - *then his joining in and calling ian a troll himself*.

Ian hasn't posted again since #13 while this is all going on. He doesn't come back in until his pretty reasonable - if a bit edgy - reply to gamayun (#29). Again, I agree with what he's saying there. I don't think it's that over the line at all.

Chef then comes in again implying village idiot and directly calling ian a "skunk". Then it goes quiet with ian until Sloop throws down the "short bus" comment (#44). And ian comes back in and responds to these shots (#47).

Then contrarian is immediately back on him, and he is called out by Ajax_MD, Troy2000, amwbox, MikeORielly, etc. And we get the killer pink hat. Then the OP is back on him (#86) - and so on...

So, if you're keeping score - how many shots have now been directed at ian - and how many has he returned? And if you can be objective - how do the attacks from both sides rate on the truly personal level? Remember, he's now up against 8-9 people throwing shots at him. And he's the only bad guy here?



MacBlaze said:


> Seriously? "ACT like a man because obviously you will never be one" can be construed as humour? *I guess if I am with my closest buddies and we are drinking*, but otherwise...? More likely to get you a punch in the face anywhere other than the internet.


Maybe that's what has changed about SN. I've always tended to look at SN as a local pub full of sailors who have a sense of humor and can give and take some ribbing without having their feelings hurt. Maybe things have changed. I don't know.

But this is exactly the reason that I pointed out the hypocrisy in this thread. A Posse breaking understood rules to beat on someone who *they* deem "uncivil"? Really? You can't have it both ways.

As you say, you might get a punch in the face with the "ACT like a man..." thing in real life. But if this is the case, why is Chef saying the exact same thing any better than ian saying it? And more importantly why is directly calling a SN member a "skunk", "idiot", "single, sexless troll", etc. okay in this regard? Aren't they - at least - equally as wrong as their "uncivil" target if we're so concerned with civility?

Really the only way you can *justify* any of this is if you think ian is the ONLY problem and ignore the rest of it. And if you do that, it's definitely a myth that does need to be busted. There should be one standard for everyone. That's all I'm saying. And in that regard, I think a few dudes owe ian an apology.

So, those are the facts. You can see them just as well as I can if you look. If you can point out where I am indeed reading it wrong I'm certainly open to discussing it. Otherwise, I'm done with this thread. It's making me nervous.

Later.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

willyd said:


> Isn't enough force to make steering difficult (or even break a tiller, as mentioned a few posts up) the indication that your sails aren't balanced? I know on my boat it is. (sorry for the thread drift- couldn't figure out how to incorporate pink hats, testosterone or internetiquette)


Probably  I will be the first to admit that my sails are not always balanced. I only have two hands, so some times the boat gets ahead of me, other times the boat gets way ahead of me. Sometimes the wind backs or gusts. A pro sailor I am not. Plus I have a thing for Cat rigs and fast boats (Cheap fast boats, not nice fast boats).

2 of the 6 sailboats I have owned have been a Fireball and a Prindle. Both are old designs capable of speeds into the high teens. My broken tillers have all been on the Fireball. However, I have had problems with the lock down mechanisms on my Prindle at speeds over 10 knots. Basically, the drag on the rudders causes them to kick up, at which point steerage is lost and the boat rounds up. I have fixed this issue with some slippery epoxy for the time being. My Fireball was destroyed in a barn fire.

Another 2 of the 6 boats have been cat rigs, which can be a bit harder to balance than sloop rigs in my opinion.

Both of my displacement sloops had wheel steering, I never had steering issues on either boat.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Daddy wrote:

"I've always tended to look at SN as a local pub full of sailors who have a sense of humor and can give and take some ribbing without having their feelings hurt. Maybe things have changed. I don't know."

I've never been in a pub full of sailors and never considered this forum to be a facsimile of such. On another "serious" site there was a thread of section called the Pub for all the off topic banter. Perhaps this site needs the same?


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## trevorharris (Oct 17, 2016)

smackdaddy said:


> then we come full circle to the OP's response about thinking it was joke


Thank you for the impressive summation. I sincerely appreciate it.

I must contest your perception of my comment again for the second time. Yes, I said "I honestly thought your first post was a joke"... but the key word there is "thought". Past tense. Don't quote without full context. I very quickly realized he wasn't joking, he didn't mean it in a light punch-to-the-shoulder way. Defence to the contrary is wrong.

I have been disappointed by the derailments of this thread. Every time I post I ask it be buried because I feel like the topic is much more important. Thankfully through the fog I've gained invaluable insight and advice into dealing with nervousness. Thanks to all who contributed.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

smackdaddy said:


> Blaze, I was done with this thread but because you've asked a straight up question - let me try this one more time. I fully realize that ianjoub can be a hurtling cannon sometimes with his rhetoric - and like I said earlier, I'm not necessarily defending *him*. Again, I think he definitely went over the line a few times. But he wasn't the only one.
> 
> I'm just pointing out the fact that *others* do a pretty damn good job of *trolling him* - then collectively pile-on and cry foul when he responds. And that's seriously lame - and very hypocritical. I heard he got the same treatment in a hurricane thread he started here - which got shut down I think after this same kind of thing was pointed out (and not by me as I wasn't here). I'd have to look back. But if that's the case, I could understand him being a bit touchy on the trigger.
> 
> ...


You can't even honor what you say and not post anymore on this. This is what gets you in trouble.

Always Have to have the last word. Oops that was already said.?

Don't try and draw me into your mess by using my name multiple times Smack. The focus is not on me. Do obfuscate the issues. It won't and doesn't work.

. The whining about not being treated like others grows stale. You got suspended from here and banned from other sites for a reason. It's obvious to everyone else....just not you. You never look at how you contribute to this.

These huge posts of yours with multiple counterpoints with bold letters read like a lecture, are confrontTional, and have nothing to do with the OP original thread. You keep beating the same dead horse. Didn't your last thread get closed for a reason somewhat similar. Let's see...you said you are done posting on this. Or will you have an excuse to. Feel free not to answer me. It will be irrelevant to the OPs topic.

Now back to Trevor who I am sure may be turned off by now. I hAve addressed the OP a number of times with his original premise of the thread. Trevor, I applaud your continuing to push your limits. Looking at the area you sail in, that's a challenging area. Each success you have will build on each other. Each lesson learned will give you confidence. Just have fun.

I am sorry that this thread has been taken over by the irrelevant conversations but on the internet that can happen. Just weed it out. Lots of good suggestions from others. Many of them are quite accomplished sailors. Aside from the noise of the detractors, most of them, as I , are supporattive of your efforts and understand your feelings. Just keep going forward with your learning. Sometime in the future you will pay this forward with your own advice on this issue.

Look forward to reading of your successes and exploits.


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

When we head out for an extended cruise I get really nervous....what did we forget?


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

smackdaddy said:


> So, those are the facts. You can see them just as well as I can if you look. If you can point out where I am indeed reading it wrong I'm certainly open to discussing it. Otherwise, I'm done with this thread. It's making me nervous.
> 
> Later.


Someday, if you are on the west Coast, or I am in the south, then we will have a beer and disagree on it in person. Then the only thing you will have to be nervous of is me dumping my beer over your head if I think you're being a...you know... ;-) And then making you buy me another.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

To the OP. The one thing you should always remain nervous about is any potential that you accidentally take either bad advice or advice from those that claim to be victims, or defend those they see as victims, when they are actually the provocateurs. The latter always reads like Japan is whining, because the US bombed them back and won. The US was fixing a problem, not creating one. Big difference, similar bombs.

From the sounds of your reaction, I think you'll do just fine in this sailing game. Enjoy the journey!


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Trevor,

Yes, posting here is a shot in the dark. Either you post is ignored or you start some uncontrolled chain reaction. If you are LUCKY you may get your question answered. 

I don’t always read the threads closely. After a while the same posters pop up time and again and I’ve heard their song enough. The brain goes on auto pilot and I skip that stuff. I suppose some see me the same way. Just as well. 

I sincerely hope you got something for your effort.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

willyd said:


> Isn't enough force to make steering difficult (or even break a tiller, as mentioned a few posts up) the indication that your sails aren't balanced? I know on my boat it is. (sorry for the thread drift- couldn't figure out how to incorporate pink hats, testosterone or internetiquette)


Most times when there Is a decent breeze, i sail with small amounts of weather helm with the idea that the rudder being cocked gives a little lift and therefore reduces leeway. Steering with the sails is a good exercise to practice sail trim.

Also someone mentioned that they saw loosing power as being as daunting as loosing steering. On some boats that is definitely the case. But on boats which sail well, are reasonably maneuverable, and with a skipper who is used to handling this particular boat in close quarters, that doesn't need to be the case.

I purposely practice sailing into and out of my slip so that I can maintain those skills.

But it doesn't make sense to start out with that kind of risk until you are familiar with handling the boat in those kind of conditions.

To start to learn how to do this, I typically will find a mark, such as a crab trap or mooring buoy and start by turning head to wind next to the mark and watching how far the boat goes upwind before it stops. I practice going well up wind of a mark, dropping the sails and then heading down wind to practice a 'dead stick' landing at that mark.

After doing these types of practice help build an comfort level with how your boat behaves under sail, at slow speed, without sails, and so on. While this familiarity won't save the day if the engine suddenly cuts out while pulling up to a dock, once you have spent time getting comfortable with these kind of maneuvers, losing power will be less daunting and in many cases, at worst an inconvenience.

Jeff


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

Back to the original question...

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself!"

My wife and I look forwards to going to sea and the picture shows my wife's pleasure at setting off on a 2,200 nm passage. The reasons are...

We don't forget anything: food, spare parts, the weather report.

We have a strong blue-water boat chosen for the ability to take care of us in a serious storms and cross oceans. The boat is as well equipped as is possible.

Everything on the boat has been checked and maintained as well as possible.

We have contingency plans, well practiced, for all likely failures: emergency rudder, steering drogue, storm drogue, life-raft etc.

We have become blue-water-sailors one step at a time, our first date was crossing the Gulf Stream. We crossed the Bay before we crossed the Pacific!

Most importantly we trust each other and in our relationship one plus one equals three!

If you fear going out or going to sea you either have the wrong personality or you have not done the work, on the boat or developing the requisite skills...

There are many fine seaman on the forum but the common factor is the time they spent time in the trenches developing their skills.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Jeff_H said:


> M...
> 
> After doing these types of practice help build an comfort level with how your boat behaves under sail, at slow speed, without sails, and so on. While this familiarity won't save the day if the engine suddenly cuts out while pulling up to a dock, once you have spent time getting comfortable with these kind of maneuvers, losing power will be less daunting and in many cases, at worst an inconvenience.
> 
> Jeff


All of this becomes terribly complicated by current and tide. Northport harbor may be atypical... but to begin with there is an 8' tide range... and the current can be a knot or so at flood or ebb. It's sheltered and the winds behave a bit flukey unlike out on the sound in open water. How your boat behaves un various wind conditions is hard to "know" because of the current variable. On week ends is a very busy place... with powered dinks, jet skiis, rowed dinks, kyacks, launches... sail and power boats going to and fro. There are racing sail boats without motors, fleets of small boats with kids learning to sail. This is a rather demanding environment and not one conducive for a larger less responsive boat to sail about and especially attempt to sail with her sails alone.

I find that most skippers are not even looking aft or even to port and starboard when moving through the harbor to and from the dock, or their mooring. If you have an engine... use it and set your sails clear of the traffic and moored boats and not in the channel. And of way too many boaters either don't know the rules of the road, or don't follow them when they do know them.

It's not practical to try to sail out of an engine failure situation often... especially when the sails are not up.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Jeff_H said:


> Most times when there Is a decent breeze, i sail with small amounts of weather helm with the idea that the rudder being cocked gives a little lift and therefore reduces leeway. Steering with the sails is a good exercise to practice sail trim.
> 
> Also someone mentioned that they saw loosing power as being as daunting as loosing steering. On some boats that is definitely the case. But on boats which sail well, are reasonably maneuverable, and with a skipper who is used to handling this particular boat in close quarters, that doesn't need to be the case.
> 
> ...


Such awesome advice

I remember once seeing you dock ( singlehanded) and leave , both under sail. It inspired me to try and practice those skills.

Many times my wife will say " why are we doing it this way is something wrong" when we try scenarios of "what if" situations.

These can be simple man overboard drills, rescue drills, moorings under sail, docking under sail rafting up, heaving to etc.

The purpose for us is that we can work out the kinks of the procedure so if we are faced with the situation we at least know what to do seemlessly. Also it gives you repetitive practice.

Pulling into a slip under sail is or can be tension filled or nervous under best of conditions for us, maybe Jeff has done it so many times it isn't for him. For me it isn't getting into the slip, it's bleeding off the power or forward motion of the boat. Jeff's advice feeds right into this. You can figure out how to control you boat in close quarters and how you can depower it while maintaining some maneuverability. Most impressive in his case is the ability to do it singkehandedly. I know I can get into a tight space my wife knows how to snag a line or use a line to stop things. And she can move around. Much more difficult if you have to be st the helm also.

It is not glamorous or even fun necessarily practicing these things. Much more fun to just motor out and pull the sheets in and go off sailing.

However practicing these two things will give you two things: 
First and added practice in the what if scenario which hopefully leads to a win win result when it occurs Secondly a maybe even more important it gives you confidence in handling scenarios which pop up . This confidence helps push away the nervousness like the original poster described.

Sh.t happens. That's a given, it's how you train yourself to react when it does.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

SanderO said:


> All of this becomes terribly complicated by current and tide. Northport harbor may be atypical... but to begin with there is an 8' tide range... and the current can be a knot or so at flood or ebb. It's sheltered and the winds behave a bit flukey unlike out on the sound in open water. How your boat behaves un various wind conditions is hard to "know" because of the current variable. On week ends is a very busy place... with powered dinks, jet skiis, rowed dinks, kyacks, launches... sail and power boats going to and fro. There are racing sail boats without motors, fleets of small boats with kids learning to sail. This is a rather demanding environment and not one conducive for a larger less responsive boat to sail about and especially attempt to sail with her sails alone.
> 
> I find that most skippers are not even looking aft or even to port and starboard when moving through the harbor to and from the dock, or their mooring. If you have an engine... use it and set your sails clear of the traffic and moored boats and not in the channel. And of way too many boaters either don't know the rules of the road, or don't follow them when they do know them.
> 
> It's not practical to try to sail out of an engine failure situation often... especially when the sails are not up.


I've sailed into Northport Harbor at least 2 dozen times. It does present its own set of circumstances for sure. You enumerated them . Every place has its own nuances.

While many Chesapeake Bay harbors don't have sad tic tidal changes or current like Northport , you are faced with narrow shallow winding channels, large marinas with tight fairways, lots of different vessels in tight quarters, and fickle swirling winds.

My point being everyone or place has its own unique challenges no one greater than another's.

We definitely had to learn some new skills when sailing on the LI Sound from our normal Chessie sailing grounds. Same with our trips to the Carribean, Long Beach California , or the San Juan's. One of the reasons we like to go to different areas is to get this variety/ challenges . Cruisers who go Island to Island experience this also I am sure.

One last thing we practice is also anchoring in an emergency. How quickly can we deploy and lower the Rocna to stabilize the situation. It's one of the reasons we choose this new gen anchor.

It grabs almost immediately without the traditional backing down methods.

Stabilizing a situation is sometimes the best alternative out of a " situation " and anchoring sometimes can do that.

It's nice to know and having practiced that.


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

These posts regarding maneuvers and docking under sail reminded me of an afternoon several years ago on Georgian Bay. We happened to be in Parry Sound during the Shark class Ontario Championships. As the racing crews returned to the marina under sail, we watched in anticipation of seeing some awesome boat handling skills. Not quite! Apparently, racers race much better than they dock.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Jeff_H said:


> To start to learn how to do this, I typically will find a mark, such as a crab trap or mooring buoy and start by turning head to wind next to the mark and watching how far the boat goes upwind before it stops. I practice going well up wind of a mark, dropping the sails and then heading down wind to practice a 'dead stick' landing at that mark.


+1.

I think this tactic is probably one of the most underutilized but helpful things you can do to learn boat-handling. Most people do their fine boat-handling work *only* coming and going around marinas/docks/moorings/etc which present the highest risks - and stresses.

Dropping the sails, starting the engine, and working on boat-handling away from everything with a buoy lets you approach from any angle, bow-first or stern-first...see what your momentum does against wind, current, whatever...see what your prop-walk does or doesn't do...etc. You can really gain a lot of confidence with a few days' practice like this...and greatly reduce the stress of _always having to nail it_ in crowded areas with high stakes and lots of hard bits. You just have to make yourself make the time for it.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Big +1 on teaching yourself to sail on and off the dock.
The way I see it there are two ways to teach yourself how to sail into dock.

1) with your engine in neutral with 5-10 knots of wind forward of the beam at a time and place of your choosing

2) with your engine in pieces in your bilge, 15-20 knots of wind onto the dock in an unfamiliar location.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

chef2sail said:


> One last thing we practice is also anchoring in an emergency. How quickly can we deploy and lower the Rocna to stabilize the situation. It's one of the reasons we choose this new gen anchor.


Deploying the anchor to stabilize a situation inside the harbor is a very good arrow to have in your quiver.

I use all chain and a windlass to with it and have both foot switches at the bow and an anchor up - down toggle switch in the cockpit. As I single hand and prefer to do all the anchoring even with wifey aboard... the cockpit switch has turned out to be a very good feature. Running forward when you have no helm control or a failed motor is not a great thing to do... because you lose precious seconds. Dropping the anchor will usually stop the boat giving me time to work out a fix if any or out in a call for assistance. Even dragging... not perfectly set is better than being completely adrift.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

I still get nervous before my first sail of the season, and even before my first couple of solo sails of a season. And how nervous was I before my first "cruise" (a 10 mile sail to another marina for an overnight stay)? Wow, I planned that thing like a circumnavigation but I still had some serious butterflies before we left the dock. But that nervousness is a good thing; it makes me cautious and think about what I need to do instead of me just bulling ahead.

Oh, and my marina prohibits sailing off or on the dock. I've seen some people do it, but only when they clearly had engine problems.


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## Saltwater Taffy (Aug 31, 2016)

I sometimes wish I had been more nervous (cautious) more frequently.

Almost every expensive mistake I have made on the boat - from prop-wraps (yes: plural) to hitting bottom (also more than once) - can be attributed to my over-confidence and/or cavalier attitude.

But, that said, I wouldn't change anything.

When I first started sailing, for the first year, I wouldn't leave the dock unless I had someone else aboard. It got to a point that I realized unless I threw off the lines on my own, I wouldn't get much sailing. Sure, I was afraid - I was petrified! But I sucked it up and went out and came back. As others have said, I tried to anticipate situations and took steps to be prepared for them. Things like having my dock lines flaked and ready. The first few landings were definitely nerve-wracking. But I didn't die. Neither my boat nor anyone else's was damaged. Now I head out alone without hesitation. There are moments when my heart is in my throat, but planning and experience so far have won the day.


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## FLFrers36 (Feb 13, 2016)

Growing a pair has nothing to do with being comfortable with your abilities. There are plenty of stories about sailboats going out in conditions that test skill and seamanship. If I'm racing or cruising, and get caught in bad weather, getting the boat under control for the conditions is #1; if I'm in port, wait it out. Been caught out out in 40-50kt squalls, just had to prep the boat and make sure everyone is ready.

Proving the size or presence of your cojones gets people hurt and gear broken


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## DaisysDriver (Feb 8, 2017)

Snorri said:


> It depends on how many people are there to see my mistakes


After 4 years now and on my second sailboat, I have found the antidote to fear is to sail within comfort zone with occasional foreys beyond to expand that zone. But the thing that will raise fear even within my comfort zone is the presence of others. Not sure why but having others on board can raise my level of anxiety. I suppose it is feeling responsible for other lives but if I examine it the fear comes more from others being witness to my screw ups. If I am alone and miss a tack or have trouble getting out of slip or docking it is no big deal but when others are along I feel much more pressure to get it right and this somehow connects to fear.


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

Its like a tree falling in the woods, if you make a mistake and nobody sees it then well..


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## Guyfromthenorth (Jul 2, 2015)

DaisysDriver said:


> After 4 years now and on my second sailboat, I have found the antidote to fear is to sail within comfort zone with occasional foreys beyond to expand that zone. But the thing that will raise fear even within my comfort zone is the presence of others. Not sure why but having others on board can raise my level of anxiety. I suppose it is feeling responsible for other lives but if I examine it the fear comes more from others being witness to my screw ups. If I am alone and miss a tack or have trouble getting out of slip or docking it is no big deal but when others are along I feel much more pressure to get it right and this somehow connects to fear.


I know this feeling well too. Some of it IS responsibility. I remember getting caught in my first full gale and had 2 friends on board. I kept thinking "if someone goes overboard or gets hurt this is on me". It wasn't a good feeling. However, like you mentioned, the other large side is the "don't embarrass yourself" in front of others fear.

The first time I EVER sailed a boat (my own) and came back to the dock I had never docked anything other than a 16ft aluminum boat before. I came back in along the pier and there was a MASSIVE crown down there for a community event (great timing right??). I was already sweating coming back having never docked 5000lbs of boat before and the slips are tight. I had my wife, 2 friends, and their MASSIVE 120lbs pyranese dog with me. As soon as I got to the end of the pier and started puttering to the slips the damn dog decided the best place to ride out this trip was now the cockpit sole. She climbed out through the companion way and FORCEFULLY plunked herself down into the sole filling it entirely. I had literally nowhere to move and now I'm panicking as I'm threading in through the "you're committed to landing" zone of the marina. I couldn't move her, everyone at the event was enjoying this "graceful sailboat coming back into the marina" and I'm SWEATING. I'm standing up on the lazarette lid trying to fit my head out around the bimini while steering a boat back in for the first time ever. Did I mention this was also run on an outboard motor? Trying controlling a tiller and outboard when you can't stand\move through the cockpit sole anymore.

I landed ok, thank god, but I felt like if I messed that up the entire town would talk about it for years. That dog...she just knew how to make it 100x worse lol.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Guyfromthenorth's story reminds me of my first sail on my folkboat. I have posted this story before, but its been a long time so here tis again;

After graduating with my undergraduate degree, I decided to buy a boat and live aboard while I decided what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. After working and putting away enough to buy a small boat I began looking for a boat to call home. I ended up buying 'Diana' a 1949 folkboat located in Dinner Key near Coral Gables in Florida. I had purchased 'Diana' derelict, and a near wreck and had spent seven months restoring her to sailing condition. In that time I had replaced the rig, rudder, and keel bolts. With lots of help from my father, and Diane, my then girlfriend and future first wife, I had sistered the frames, replaced some floor timbers and planking, constructed a new cockpit and interior, replaced a piece of the stem and the forward face of the cabin, had wooded the bottom, and topsides and repainted her inside and out.

As 1973 raced to an end and with my yard bill paid up through December 31st, and I had decided that I would need to get the old girl launched in time for the New Year. As it worked out the yard closed down on Christmas Eve and would not open again until January 2. So, it was that 'Diana' was splashed on Christmas Eve.

'Diana' was a lapstrake wooden boat. Having been out of the water for so long, her planking had dried out and her seams had opened up so wide that you could pass a thick piece of cardboard through them. There is a process to launching a wooden boat that has been out of the water for that long that amounts to nearly sinking the boat for a day or so, but that is story for another time. Even after the seams have seemingly swelled closed again, the theory with a wooden boat that has been out of the water for a long period of time is that you must let the planking continue to swell in the water for another week or so before you can stress the hull by sailing the boat. Since much of the strength and stiffness of a wooden boat comes from the friction between the planks, this swelling period allows the planks to swell hard against each other.

I spent the week bailing, finishing the rigging, and working on fabricating the new cockpit and interior for the boat. To keep 'Diana' from sinking during the night, I slept on a slatted grate that I had made as a temporary cabin sole with my foot hanging into the bilge so that the rising water would wake me and I would know to bail.

In the week that passed before I noticed that it had even started, it was suddenly New Years Eve and I had to get the boat out of the boatyard. After a week in the water, the leaking had pretty well stopped. While I had to move 'Diana' out of the main portion of the yard, I had been given permission to tie up for free between an old piling and a bulkhead on the edge of the boatyard out of the everyone's way. I figured as long as I had to sail over to the new tie up, I might as well go out for a sail first.

This was to be my first sail on the Folkboat, and my first sail as the skipper of my own keel boat, and only the second time that I had single-handed a boat this big, and one of the first times I had single-handed at night. I slipped out just as the sun was setting into a classic sky-on-fire Florida sunset, beating east in a light ghosting breeze beneath a Jack-o-lantern of a sky. I sailed quietly toward toward the pass at the southern end of Key Biscayne and a blood red rising moon in an ever darkening evening with the horizon and sky quickly becoming one.

A Folkboat is a marvelous little boat, which as I discovered that night, can sail herself seemingly for days at a time; just trim, aim and off she goes. I sat up on the cabin top, steering with a jib sheet held in hand; bearing off the wind by tightening the sheet and heading up with an ease of the sheet.

These were simpler times and quieter times. I had Biscayne Bay to myself; no running lights to be seen anywhere. 'Diana' was free of anything that one might call modern. She did not have an engine and so did not have an electrical system or running lights. Being a few inches less than 25 feet on deck, I simply carried the legally required flashlight, which I was prepared to shine on my sails if another boat appeared in the night. The head was a simple 'bucket and chuck it' system. There were no lifelines or stanchions. Navigation was simple piloting with a folded small craft chart in my lap and a tiny compass that looked more at home on a dashboard of a car than in the cockpit of a boat that was a year older than I was. There was no radio and the GPS was decades from being invented.

To those of you who have spent much time single-handing after dark, you will probably know what I mean, when I say there is nothing quite like the emotional sensation of being alone at night at sea. There is this profound sense of being more alone than you have ever been in your life. There is a sense of tranquility and a sense of speed that is far beyond that felt in the light of day. There's a sense of self-reliance and sense of a fear that comes from realizing that it is up to only you to make the right or wrong decisions out there and if your decisions are wrong it is only you who pays the consequences. The carpet of stars overhead that lit the sea and their distance made me seem even more infinitesimally small, and humbly insignificant.

I sailed for hours in the chill and building breeze, but around ten or so, I reached the mouth of the narrow, unmarked, coral-bordered channel into the Atlantic. Resisting temptation and yielding to prudence I turned back for home on a nice broad reach in a building breeze.

The trip back into the lights of Dinner Key is lost to memory but when I arrived at the harbor I began to sort through my possibilities. It had suddenly occurred to me that I had never brought a boat this big into a dock alone under sail. I sailed back out into the mooring area, and practiced a couple approaches to the piling. I decided my best bet was to approach a couple boat lengths to leeward on a beam reach and then head up into the wind. I had decided that there was no way that I could be on the helm and still make it forward in time to place a line over the piling.

Somehow, seen through the rose colored optimism of youth, it made great sense to me to steer into the dock controlling the direction of the boat with the jibsheet while sitting on the foredeck. If I figured if missed the piling I would fetch up on sand bar just ahead of the piling. Now youth is an amazing thing, you have not learned enough to know what you don't and may never know. Youth brings a confidence that can only come when you don't know the consequences of making a really big mistake.

So in my youthful confidence I came roaring in on a beam reach, sitting on the foredeck, jib sheet in hand. At the moment of truth, I freed the jib sheet and Diana pirouetted gracefully up into the wind. I grabbed the clew of the jib and moving it from side to side, steering and slowing the boat. Coming to a dead stop right next to the piling. Polite as you may, I threw a bight of a dockline over the piling.

And there I stood, dockline in hand, congratulating myself on a job well done......I stood there cold and numb, a broad toothy grin across my face, scanning the docks for some sign of life; some witness to my brilliant feat of seamanship. No good deed goes unpunished and in my moment of self-congratulatory elation, nature took its turn to take me down a peg or two, hitting Diana with a big puff from the opposite side of the jib from where I stood perched on the narrow foredeck and pushing me hard towards the rail. As I went over the side, I dove for the shrouds, grabbing the upper shroud with my forearm, slicing it deeply on the Nicropress fitting that should have been taped for just such an occasion, and dropping feet first into the cold waters of Biscayne Bay in December but still keeping my grip on the boat.

As I hung over the side, legs in the water, I tried to decide whether to let go and fall backwards into the water, or pull myself aboard. Remembering a check in my wallet in my pocket, I slowly pulled myself over the rail and back aboard. My scream as I went over had roused a crowd from the boats tied up nearby, a large crowd in fact, that arrived just as I pulled myself from the water.

As I lay there on the foredeck, winded and bleeding, soaked and shivering; the sound of fireworks and firecrackers bursting in the distant darkness and a chorus of Auld Lang Sine from the drunks in local juke joint wafted out to tell me that I had just entered into the brand New Year.

Jeff


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## seabeau (Oct 5, 2014)

Jeff_H said:


> Guyfromthenorth's story reminds me of my first sail on my folkboat. I have posted this story before, but its been a long time so here tis again;
> 
> After graduating with my undergraduate degree, I decided to buy a boat and live aboard while I decided what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. After working and putting away enough to buy a small boat I began looking for a boat to call home. I ended up buying 'Diana' a 1949 folkboat located in Dinner Key near Coral Gables in Florida. I had purchased 'Diana' derelict, and a near wreck and had spent seven months restoring her to sailing condition. In that time I had replaced the rig, rudder, and keel bolts. With lots of help from my father, and Diane, my then girlfriend and future first wife, I had sistered the frames, replaced some floor timbers and planking, constructed a new cockpit and interior, replaced a piece of the stem and the forward face of the cabin, had wooded the bottom, and topsides and repainted her inside and out.
> 
> ...


Youthful hubris apparently is infectious. PS The Folkboats have some beautiful lines


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

br3nt said:


> Err, Smack, I know you've reached celeb status on here but are you kidding? Happy to debate my "holier-than-thou" position against the BS from him. I know you're on probation so we can do that via PM if you like.
> 
> I wonder what he would say about a guy going through a personal tragedy.


I have been there as well as many others. That is why they call them PERSONAL tragedies. Sure, you cut one some slack, but it is up to them to get over it.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

amwbox said:


> Ian was the one engaging in "holier than thou" antics, and randomly insulting someone, out of the blue, for no apparent reason. Simply for the sin of posting a topic, it would seem. It was the _reason_ he got the response he got. So...this post is ironic to say the least. But perhaps shared insecurities feed one another. Why else spring to the defense of the instigator acting so insecurely and childishly unless you too feel the need to prove something?
> 
> Trevor said nothing offensive in his OP. So it was pretty bizarre behavior on Ian's part to immediately imply Trevor had no nuts and to question his manhood. It must have been something fresh on his mind. And on yours, to defend his actions.


You see it as an insult. I see it as a piece of positive advice relating to a problem he posted.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Jeff H.,

Cool story - it's like SanderO says : "You may be doing great. But it's never too late to F*** Up"


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

SloopJonB said:


> Ianjoub is one of the longest standing trolls on SN. He is a self labelled landlubber who lives on the edge of, or in the Everglades and has never once provided any useful info to anyone here. In addition he has contributed blatantly racist commentary and "jokes" that have gotten him flicked in the past.
> 
> Generally a complete waste of space in my experience.


Landlubber is a humorous moniker I applied to my user id here. I have provided a lot of useful info, though you may not have the wherewithal to identify it.

As to the jokes, YOU ARE THE RACIST. I typed up one joke about robots and your RACIST SELF interpreted it as a negative comment on an ethnicity. I can not control your thought process. Maybe some introspection is in order.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

Sal Paradise said:


> In another realm, the world of motorcycle forums, some riders talk about that fear that comes on before setting out a long ride. Cross country there = offshore here. Anyone with that fear and going anyway is someone I will ride/sail with. They are aware of the danger.


I have road raced motorcycles (at tracks). I never felt any apprehension on the starting line. I took all my chances in practice and set up. When I was on the starting line I was calm. I had a plan and was ready to execute it. If things went tits up, I would deal with it as best I could.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

*Re: How about an emergency backup plan*



JohnBPrice said:


> Ian, of course, does not need a life raft. I've heard he can swim the Atlantic. In winter. Naked. Because, you know, he is a REAL man.


I had a life raft and wore a deckvest self inflating jacket with an EPIRB on this lat trip. I did go do the trip though .


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

Yorksailor said:


> You lot need to sail more and write less...Anyone want to crew Japan to Alaska?
> 
> Phil


Just did 10 days!


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

contrarian said:


> I still haven't figured out how growing pears helps with nervousness


Pears have a chemical compound in them which works as a natural depressant, thus no anxiety after you eat a few


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

oldlaxer1 said:


> *" I KNOW the way I live my life makes me a man. You appear to have no clue what makes a man"
> "Everyone who knows me knows I am a real man. I certainly don't worry about apologizing to puffs over it."
> "A real man can afford to go on any boat he pleases. Sorry for you that you are poor."*
> 
> Why Ian couldn't have simply come back with what he said later instead of all the chest thumping is where I'm confused.


I read the comments and roll my eyes, but at some point lash back. A fault on my part.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

trevorharris said:


> While your defence of him is honorable, I do share the majority opinion that he's been quite demeaning and rude. He's even stooped so low as to insult peoples financial status. He is the objective definition of a troll. I'm glad he hasn't posted much since, to be honest.


Insult peoples' financial status? Someone indicated that simply because I was headed out on a nice boat I was somehow not a 'real sailor'. I indicated that perhaps the fact that others could not afford nice things in life doesn't make them old salts.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

chef2sail said:


> Don't try and draw me into your mess by using my name multiple times Smack. The focus is not on me. Do obfuscate the issues. It won't and doesn't work.


I agree with you, that quote function he used is a bear... Can't run from it effectively.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

And yes, I had a couple of trials and tribulations on my just completed sail. I wouldn't have missed it for the world. If I never left the dock, I would have been a poorer man for it.


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## trevorharris (Oct 17, 2016)

ianjoub said:


> I indicated that perhaps the fact that others could not afford nice things in life doesn't make them old salts.


Nope. You said: "A real man can afford to go on any boat he pleases. Sorry for you that you are poor."

That's an insult. I'm willing to hear you out, but your paraphrase is unrepresentative.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

trevorharris said:


> Nope. You said: "A real man can afford to go on any boat he pleases. Sorry for you that you are poor."
> 
> That's an insult. I'm willing to hear you out, but your paraphrase is unrepresentative.


Yes, and it was meant as such. Just as his comment that 'just because I could afford to rent a 53' sailboat' didn't mean I was a sailor was mean as an insult.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

I am sorry I responded to all of these posts now. I am guilty of reading and responding in chronological order. If I had read through it all first, I would have bowed out.


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## Plugger (Jan 6, 2018)

I find it takes time and experience to start to relax, weather conditions are a big factor and the experience of your crew. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jasonh1965 (Sep 6, 2017)

Trevor, Something worth mention is you are in Conception Bay, NL. That's no easy place to sail so having some healthy nerves are reasonable, especially with only 2 years experience. I haven't sailed there, but read enough to know getting around NL can be a challenge. One thing to set sail in warm water on sunny days in areas with many boats around. NL ain't no Florida Keys or Tropical cruising. Time and experience buiulds comfort but don't forget that **** happens so be prepared.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

ianjoub said:


> I have road raced motorcycles (at tracks). I never felt any apprehension on the starting line. I took all my chances in practice and set up. When I was on the starting line I was calm. I had a plan and was ready to execute it. If things went tits up, I would deal with it as best I could.


Really? There is always a chance someone else will crash into you. So that's a chance you are taking in a race. If I didn't feel at least a little scared, I'd probably think it was not worth doing. Maybe you don't care or maybe you are a little different.

One thing I've learned is that there is a spectrum of human perception and responses. Even within myself, I've had days where I felt like I could do a lap at IOM and days where there was a lurking fear and I surely did not have my best stuff. On those days I might stay home or at least ride cautiously.

Some feel no fear, some feel a little fear, some a lot of fear. If I had to choose someone to sail a long passage with , I'd go with someone who feels some fear (and goes anyway) over someone who claims to feel none.

Peace.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Sal Paradise said:


> Really? There is always a chance someone else will crash into you. So that's a chance you are taking in a race. If I didn't feel at least a little scared, I'd probably think it was not worth doing. Maybe you don't care or maybe you are a little different.
> 
> One thing I've learned is that there is a spectrum of human perception and responses. Even within myself, I've had days where I felt like I could do a lap at IOM and days where there was a lurking fear and I surely did not have my best stuff. On those days I might stay home or at least ride cautiously.
> 
> ...


Prudence is the rational response to fear.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

Sal Paradise said:


> Really? There is always a chance someone else will crash into you. So that's a chance you are taking in a race. If I didn't feel at least a little scared, I'd probably think it was not worth doing. Maybe you don't care or maybe you are a little different.


There was a chance someone could crash into me, yes. There was a chance that I would get killed driving my truck and trailer to the track too. I wasn't scared, actually had no fear at all, when driving my truck to the track. Do you have fear when driving your car? Probably not. That is where I am when doing things I am comfortable with, which include racing motorcycles and sailing. That does not make these things not worth doing to me.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

ianjoub said:


> There was a chance someone could crash into me, yes. There was a chance that I would get killed driving my truck and trailer to the track too. I wasn't scared, actually had no fear at all, when driving my truck to the track. Do you have fear when driving your car? Probably not. That is where I am when doing things I am comfortable with, which include racing motorcycles and sailing. That does not make these things not worth doing to me.


For a while I though maybe you were talking about being " in the zone" and I have definitely been there and the danger is worth it, I think. But then you say it is like driving a trailer, so you are not talking about the zone. You are just talking a lack of feeling. Hope your other feelings are not so muted. I would not trade my deepest feelings for anything, they make me the man I am. It is walking though the very conflict between selfishness and love, between fear and courage, and always trying to be honorable - that makes a man fully. That is walking the walk and without it we are children.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

Sal Paradise said:


> For a while I though maybe you were talking about being " in the zone" and I have definitely been there and the danger is worth it, I think. But then you say it is like driving a trailer, so you are not talking about the zone. You are just talking a lack of feeling. Hope your other feelings are not so muted. I would not trade my deepest feelings for anything, they make me the man I am. It is walking though the very conflict between selfishness and love, between fear and courage, and always trying to be honorable - that makes a man fully. That is walking the walk and without it we are children.


Perhaps we do racing differently. I do all my pushing and testing during practice. In the race, I back it off 5-10% for that comfort zone. During the race is no time to crash, that is when it matters. If you are going to crash, do it during test/tune sessions.

It is not lack of feeling. It is confidence in my ability, preparation, and execution. I am going out to do something I have practiced, and comfortable doing, and have the skills and ability to tackle any unforeseen circumstances with an acceptable level of competence.

On the other hand, when I am 'in the zone' while riding/racing motorcycles, I am thinking about everything EXCEPT what I am doing, as odd as that may seem.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

ianjoub said:


> Perhaps we do racing differently. I do all my pushing and testing during practice. In the race, I back it off 5-10% for that comfort zone. During the race is no time to crash, that is when it matters. If you are going to crash, do it during test/tune sessions.
> 
> It is not lack of feeling. It is confidence in my ability, preparation, and execution. I am going out to do something I have practiced, and comfortable doing, and have the skills and ability to tackle any unforeseen circumstances with an acceptable level of competence.
> 
> On the other hand, when I am 'in the zone' while riding/racing motorcycles, I am thinking about everything EXCEPT what I am doing, as odd as that may seem.


When I am " in the zone" I think nothing, its just motion, adrenaline. g forces, the sound of the engine, the trees flashing by, time slows.... No thought.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Sal Paradise said:


> When I am " in the zone" I think nothing, its just motion, adrenaline. g forces, the sound of the engine, the trees flashing by, time slows.... No thought.


That was how it was for me when I road raced motorcycles. In practice I tended to try different lines through corners and braking points, memorizing clues to these points. Sitting on the starting line, I would think my way around the track and remember what I had decided during practice. During the race I was strictly in the moment, picking up my marks, tracking traffic, and feeling the bike with no time to actually think about what was happening.

I think that the same happens out on the water. If I see a squall coming, I think through and initiate preparation such as reducing sail, closing hatches and donning life jackets. During that time I have time to think and feel emotions that is somewhere on the fear-concern spectrum. But once in the storm, I am typically in the moment, dealing with what is unfolding with no time for fear or contemplation.

Jeff


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

I think it is apples and oranges. I definitely have great sail days and get into a zone, in the sense that my every thought is about wind and sails and heeling, angles, light on the water. But it's very different from racing a motorcycle. I'd compare a good sail to a good ride in terms of mental benefit, but its not the same edge.However as I tie up the boat, my work or home stress seems small and far away. Its a different but similar thing, if that makes sense.


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## PJK (Jan 6, 2018)

Wow....to the man of the hour IanJoub.....I'll bet your dock neighbors will be glad to see you go. you seem to be a bit of a braggart and someone with self worth issues and small Hands. Nasty response to a reasonable question wasn't warranted.

Re being nervous....everyone starts somewhere and a bit of respect and understanding goes a long way. Practice makes perfect and friendly advice helps.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

PJK said:


> Wow....to the man of the hour IanJoub.....I'll bet your dock neighbors will be glad to see you go. you seem to be a bit of a braggart and someone with self worth issues and small Hands. Nasty response to a reasonable question wasn't warranted.
> 
> Re being nervous....everyone starts somewhere and a bit of respect and understanding goes a long way. Practice makes perfect and friendly advice helps.


Try the ignore feature... makes life more pleasant.


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## PJK (Jan 6, 2018)

Thanks SanderO. I'm a newbie here and still learning my way around the site. Good to know there is an ignore option. Gratified to see that most of the responses to the original post were intelligent.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

PJK said:


> Thanks SanderO. I'm a newbie here and still learning my way around the site. Good to know there is an ignore option. Gratified to see that most of the responses to the original post were intelligent.


When you see positive responses to your posts/opinions on Internet forums, does it make you feel good?


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

internet cruisers make me very nevous


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## Pendragon35 (Jun 26, 2014)

LOve this story. I've been sailing for fifty years and it sounds so true: no one is watching when it goes perfectly, everyone is when it all goes south.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

There’s a difference between the acute biological responses to a bad situation-fear and the chronic stress response to anticipation to the potential of a bad situation arising-anxiety.
Jeff I previously rode tract and dirt. Do your prep, ride/walk the run and do mental imaging, get your break points/ shift points = decreased anxiety. But a tank slapper in the whoops = fear. Question is does the fear paralyse you. Sure you may not be anxious at the start of a heat but that doesn’t impact if you’re going to be scared during it.
Boats are a totally different kettle of fish. More like the days of boredom broken up by minutes of terror combat vets talk of. Here routine, practice and strict adherence to protocol decrease anxiety. That anxiety starts for me immediately after a passage as I contemplate the next. In the day or two after I do a post mordem. Things I could have done better. Things to fix. Things to rework to perform better. It’s chess not checkers so endlessly fascinating. During passage there’s little or no anxiety. Anxiety is a good thing as it moviates me to address all the little details involved in prepping the boat and keeping her Bristol fashion ready for the next passage. It’s never paralyzing or overwhelming. There’s a really nice feeling when you address a detail to completion. Find something not up to stuff>fix it>good feeling. Endless cycle. Good enough doesn’t exist on a boat. It’s either done right or remains a source of anxiety so done right is the rule. I enjoy prepping the boat and myself. I know if I’m too anxious I won’t perform at my capability when sailing. I know most bad outcomes come from a cascade of little mishaps. Some mechanical but some decision based. Here we can learn from military, law enforcement, fire, rock/ice climbers and first responders. If fear paralyses you you’re done. If you have protocols in place, a deep understanding of the situation, and the fear gives you super human endurance and strength you surmount and gain control of the situation. Attitude and prep is everything. “No Fear” is bs. A disciplined rational mindset is everything.
My 2 cents.


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## Pendragon35 (Jun 26, 2014)

One thing that has helped me is "mental sailng". One of the things I do is to go over in a detailed way in my mind all the steps of a particular operation. When I first got my boat, a full keel Alberg 35 with a lot of port prop walk, I was very afraid of leaving the dock. I had several bad undockings. So I started working through the process. I often do this before sleep: every step involved. That led me to a set of procedures: move the boat from its normal starboard against the float setting to port against the float, leaving space for the beginning of the turn; a spring line of floating line laid out slightly more than the length of the boat; going slowly; just one small burst of reverse at the beginning. Learning to wait for the boat to move. 

Together, these things started to work. Having the extra space meant that if the bow turned to starboard a little, it didn't hit the float; the burst rather than constant engine minimized initial prop walk. The spring line turned the boat. It isn't always perfect but it has completely transformed my undocking; I now no longer fear the moment. (which gives me more time to be scared of the docking!). 

Getting the main up has been a big deal too (I mostly sail single-handed). So this winter I'm working out, again in my head, the details of a better way to do that. I'm hoping when I start sailing again soon, to test out some different ways and to have a calmer season.


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