# Looking for a liveaboard, don't want to die in the ocean.



## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

Hey folks. I'm 6'5", brand new to boats, terrified of the ocean, and have decided to live aboard 
Looking for input on boat recommendations. I'm married to the idea of a sailboat (energy independence in case of zombie apocalypse) though I may consider a real cheap trawler to get me started.
Some things I've run into though. 
1. I'm too tall for most boats. I'm half monkey so I have no problem swinging about and ducking through bulkheads, but I like to be able to stand while doing dishes and showering.
2. I've looked at about 10 boats thus far from a San Juan 27 to a Buchan 37 to a Spencer 42. The San Juan's cabin was about the size of the interior of my Jeep. The Buchan 37 was big enough for me to get by, alone, but certainly nowhere near comfortably. The Spencer 42 looks more than sufficient, but I'm not looking forward tot the idea of singlehanding a 42'. However, I hear constantly about elderly couples living for 10 years on a Morgan IO 30'. I've looked at videos of these and they look WAY bigger than the Buchan 37'. Granted, the Buchan's beam is only about 7'5" while the IO is about 10', but the Buchans extra 7' LOA I'd thing should more than compensate. Also, the Buchan could never fit a shower while most IO 30's have no issue with such accommodation. Am I just looking at the wrong style boat? Is there some magic word for sub 40' boats that can accommodate two adults and a box of cats comfortably?
3. After much research, I've set my budget to start at around $20k. Some people tell me this is completely unrealistically low, while many others (mostly liveaboards) say $20k will buy me a comfortable boat with enough left over to invite all my friends to a moon party. I've met liveaboards who tell me they spent $8000 on their boat, put $2000 into the interior, and consider $1500/y maintenance to be excessive. Then on the flip side there are those who wouldn't set foot in anything under $60k, and will drop $10k/y on maintenance.

So my questions I suppose are 
1. Whats a good boat for tall, lanky, but extremely handsome men with either two cats or four cats and a tiny lady friend?
2. What's the secret code that unlocks all the roomy boats in the sub-40' range? (already tried up up down down left right left right a b start, but all I got was a gutted 42' Spencer in a condition scary enough that I left feeling like I'd just been raped).
3. What's a reasonable price for a live aboard? I don't expect gold plated shower curtains or VTOL, but I don't want myself or my cats to get too friendly with the seals either.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

There is a realy nice looking ferrocement liveaboard but maybe a bit out of your range. Not to far away so maybe worth a look and an offer. BTW don't be put off by the people who decry ferro. Lots of benefits for liveaboard in a cold climate.

See CLICKY


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Your trying to justify something you have no idea what your getting into.... A sailboat is not the way to escape (or survive) the break down of life as we know it. "Water World" isn't happening for at least another 100 years either. 

Suggestion.. slow down.. go sailing, take some lessons or teach yourself. Make friends with owners looking for crew, or go on a few charters with someone that knows how to sail. Hit the books.. learn about sailboats and construction there of. 

"wanna sail, don't wanna die" kinda shouts out how little you know about sailing and sailboats. 

4 cats??? and if the boat didn't smell when you get it.... OMG. 

And, where's the Tiny Lady in all this?


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

Everything Denise said.

After that, go look at a Catalina 30, and a Morgan O/I 33 if you can (even just to visit, not to buy). Neither are sail-anywhere boats, but they are roomy for their length (and slips charge by the foot!)

Some people can live in and sail over the horizon in an Albin Vega, a Pearson Triton, etc the size of a closet. These people may be the $20k people... some people couldn't do it in a massive 42'er @$150k.

Maybe you should consider options in the middle  but offshore design often compromises dockside comfort, and maybe you get seasick anyhow! Everything Denise said....


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

Everyone keeps talking about moorage fees but they're really not bad at all. Consider that my rent for my terrible apt. is $18,000 per year, moorage doesn't even compare.
Moorage for a 30' here is between $240-$300/m, all inclusive.
Moorage for a 40' boat is $320-$490/m, all inclusive. This is less than 1/4 my current rent regardless (my place is a ****hole for $1500/m).
Even if I assume 20% the price of my boat for maintenance every year, I'm still not spending on a boat, what I spend on my horrible apartment. Also, I get a good deal on my current place. Most in the area start at $1800/m for 700sq'. I suspect that rent/property prices being so dramatically different between here makes a massive difference in how reasonable a boat would seem. Anywhere else in the world, for what I pay in rent, I could be paying a 10year mortgage on a pretty nice 4bdrm house in the burbs.

That said, I don't know anyone else's situation. I know mine and it seems wasteful.

I've considered something in the range of an O/I 33 or S2 11.0(c). The real question I have though is that these two examples seem massive compared to the Buchan 37 I recently checked out. I hear of couples or families living on 35-42' boats quite comfortably. Perhaps I've just seen the wrong boats, but I can't imagine most people fitting 2-3 people into a Buchan 37 for more than a weekend, and I'm a minimalist. I want a small bedroom just big enough for my bed. I want a shower my height and width (about 6'5" and 2x2'. The Buchan couldn't possibly fit a shower. I strongly suspect there's just a totally different class of boat that I haven't seen in person yet (like the S2 11.0c or O/I 33).

I'm certainly not going to go buy a boat without some experience first. I've got a few sailing days lined up with a friend of a friend to see how I dig it. I've spent most of my afternoons for the past few weeks parusing the docks and talking to the locals (though the only liveaboards I've met thus far are in trawlers or cruisers).

@Denise - Live as I know it is probably much different from most. Rent on a 1bdrm apt that is rotting out, smells awful, carpets are all stained, no yard, no place to even put my bikes, pay parking, not allowed to do any work to my place and I pay $1500/m for this 700sq' of space that was clearly never designed for human living (80% is space that is unusable for anything). I work from home (just need internet), I like to have a few projects on the go (which I can't have at my current place), I want to travel, I love being a nomad, I have no debt nor bills other than rent. The $1500/m for rent alone makes a boat an attractive proposition, even if I have to spend $60k to get into something I like. Am I crazy or just missing something? The other live aboards I've met make significantly less money than I do, and most have a job that requires them to be somewhere every day, but they all seem to be very happy and certainly not living in squalor. I spent about 3 hours hanging out with an older couple on the docks the other day, who have lived in their 35' Monk for 10 years and seem to be very well setup. They paid $9000 for the boat and have put (they say) a little under $6000 into it (they do their own work, so this is just parts and haulout/drydock costs). Is this uncommon or is there just a large void between people who manage to do this for far cheaper than I curently live, and those who tell me to not even consider attempting to liveaboard until I'm prepared to spend $2000 a month on maintenance and endure constant typhoons and attacks by rabid otters?


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

TQA said:


> There is a realy nice looking ferrocement liveaboard but maybe a bit out of your range. Not to far away so maybe worth a look and an offer. BTW don't be put off by the people who decry ferro. Lots of benefits for liveaboard in a cold climate.
> 
> See CLICKY


I've considered a ferro-concrete for sure. The first boat I found was a 60' FC ketch geared out for charters. Clearly too big for a first boat, but I researched the FC hulls. It seems that the general consensus (what lies between the left and right) is that FC boats are very low maintenance but are also often poorly constructed by hobbiests. I've only heard of a small handful of FC boats sinking, and this was always on home made hulls. I'd worry a little about cracks developing as they'd be a ***** to fix compared to FG or even Steel. They're heavy but seem mostly bulletproof. What other info can you give me?


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## johnnyquest37 (Feb 16, 2012)

Have you considered a houseboat?


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

johnnyquest37 said:


> Have you considered a houseboat?


Yes. I originally moved to Vancouver hoping to buy a houseboat. Unfortunately, they don't start here till about $400,000 and the city won't allow you in a new slip. All houseboats here will stay where they are forever. No new leases will be handed out. Vancouver is very unfriendly to liveaboards and houseboats.
That said, I've considered a boathouse/cruiser but now I'm pretty hot on the idea of relatively cheap wind transportation. I like to be autonomous as far as possible. I may buy a small cruise-a-home for extra room while docked in town, but ultimately I'm hooked on a sailboat at this point.


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

Blist, if it's just a liveaboard you're after, then you have a lot of options (including some big old powerboat with bad engines). In your other thread you mentioned a liveaboard _and _bluewater sailing. This complicates things a bit. The boat for the former can be anything big and comfortable enough to live on. Who cares if the sails, electronics, motor etc. are shot or at the end of their life? It's just a place to sleep and cook meals right? Now if you want to buy a boat to live on now and then use to go cruising later you'll have to be much more selective. I suggest you start by reading up on cruising and sailboats in general and especially the older threads here on Sailnet. There have been dozens of threads started by people just like you- starting out and full of questions- which have pages of long, thoughtful responses. The problem when you're starting out is that you often don't know what you really need in a boat. Anyone coming from a house will find a 40ft sailboat's interior tiny by comparison. Once you actually spend time on a boat your notion of "space" changes! To give you an idea, I cruise part of the year and weekends with my wife and 2 teenage kids aboard a 35ft boat and we feel like we have plenty of room. My boat, however, is set up for cruising and living aboard long-term. Other 35ft boats might not be practical as cruisers. Your first step is to decide if you just want a cheap boat to live on to get out of your high rent on land or if you want a boat to go cruising on.


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

copacabana said:


> Blist, if it's just a liveaboard you're after, then you have a lot of options (including some big old powerboat with bad engines). In your other thread you mentioned a liveaboard _and _bluewater sailing. This complicates things a bit. The boat for the former can be anything big and comfortable enough to live on. Who cares if the sails, electronics, motor etc. are shot or at the end of their life? It's just a place to sleep and cook meals right? Now if you want to buy a boat to live on now and then use to go cruising later you'll have to be much more selective. I suggest you start by reading up on cruising and sailboats in general and especially the older threads here on Sailnet. There have been dozens of threads started by people just like you- starting out and full of questions- which have pages of long, thoughtful responses. The problem when you're starting out is that you often don't know what you really need in a boat. Anyone coming from a house will find a 40ft sailboat's interior tiny by comparison. Once you actually spend time on a boat your notion of "space" changes! To give you an idea, I cruise part of the year and weekends with my wife and 2 teenage kids aboard a 35ft boat and we feel like we have plenty of room. My boat, however, is set up for cruising and living aboard long-term. Other 35ft boats might not be practical as cruisers. Your first step is to decide if you just want a cheap boat to live on to get out of your high rent on land or if you want a boat to go cruising on.


My thoughts exactly. I don't need much space. As I said, my crappy 700sq' apt ($1500/m) is both too big and too small. It's laid out extremely poorly so there's not really much room to do anything but it's also got great big open spaces that can't be used for storage. It's pretty much the opposite of a well laid out boat. It's two levels high, but if it were up to me, I'd just redo the interior and turn each level into it's own suite. Lots of room is not a concern. Being comfortable however is. I've been looking at other peoples <37' boats and finding that they seem to be more than sufficient for my size and requirements. I can't find anything like these boats though, locally. The best I've found thus far is a 41' OI CC, but I suspect the owner may be a bit dodgy. Just trying to get a feel for what boats make good liveaboards.


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

A quick filtered search on Yachtworld turns up this:

(Sail) Boats For Sale British Columbia BC Canada

Some of them look like they might be worth looking at.


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

Here's one with a good pedigree:

1976 Ontario Yachts Ontario 32 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

copacabana said:


> A quick filtered search on Yachtworld turns up this:
> 
> (Sail) Boats For Sale British Columbia BC Canada
> 
> Some of them look like they might be worth looking at.


*sigh* The internet IS my job. How I didn't realize yachtworld.com had Canadian listings is beyond me. I'll find an excuse eventually. Thanks !


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

I'd have a look at that Ontario 32. It looks to be the best of the lot.


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## crichard (Nov 7, 2002)

I'm 6'5" and I've always found that the lengths of the berths or sleeping quarters are more important than cabin headroom. Many boats are 6'1 to 6'3 headroom in the cabin/galley area but it seems that many fewer have adequate length berths for us tall folk. I tend to get used to stooping a bit when moving about the cabin, most of the time your sitting or laying down. The nice thing about sailboats is they all have great decks.ll
You what to take a look at Fatty Goodlander's recent book "How to Inexpensively and Safely Buy Outfit & Sail a Small Boat Around the World". Even if you don"t plan to sail long distances he gives a lot of insightful tips on how to do things cheaply and safely.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

blistovmhz said:


> I've considered a ferro-concrete for sure. The first boat I found was a 60' FC ketch geared out for charters. Clearly too big for a first boat, but I researched the FC hulls. It seems that the general consensus (what lies between the left and right) is that FC boats are very low maintenance but are also often poorly constructed by hobbiests. I've only heard of a small handful of FC boats sinking, and this was always on home made hulls. I'd worry a little about cracks developing as they'd be a ***** to fix compared to FG or even Steel. They're heavy but seem mostly bulletproof. What other info can you give me?


Repairs are easy but you do need the right materials see here. CLICKY

I helped with the repair of some quite serious damage to the rudder skeg on a ferro boat and we just banged away with a hammer and chisel to shift the cement. Hammered the armature back into shape. Welded in some extra reinforcement for good luck. Sandblasted everything, painted the armature with epoxy and replastered the hull back to shape the next day. 3 days in total. Steel would have been as quick but I am not sure about GR.

That pilothouse Herreshoff Napier Custom cutter in Bellingham is described as being



> Hull is ferro-cement. Concrete mixed professionally: Posilan Sealing Agent, Chromium Trioxide, Silicon Sand, No. 5 Portland Cement. All poured in one day and vibrated. Allowed 28 day wetting and curing.


and it looks well set up for liveaboard with insulation and a stove.

The VHF is a collectors piece though.

The deck would be the one worry and that would need a carefull inspection for leaks and or rot.

But from the pics it looks well maintained.


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

Will check it out. Thoughts on the S-2 9.0c and 11.0c ? They look to have skads of room while still being a fairly small-ish boat. Wondering if anyone's got experience with them?


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## Murph (Jun 24, 2012)

I've been kicking tires for 8 months and I can say with some certainty that not many boats in your price range will accommodate your height, dude.....like none. Find a project boat or raise the budget. IMO, set your max @ 36'.....start at 32(Morgan 323) and work up. I bet you can find a nice 35 that doesn't need too much for what you need. Cal 35, C&C Landfall 35, Bristol 35.5.....you'll spend $30k+ but you'll be set for coastal, deep blue or the dock.....with minimal bending at the waist.

Oh yeah.....lessons, books, vids.....sail......get experience any way you can.

Best of luck to you in this exciting time


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

Murph said:


> I've been kicking tires for 8 months and I can say with some certainty that not many boats in your price range will accommodate your height, dude.....like none. Find a project boat or raise the budget. IMO, set your max @ 36'.....start at 32(Morgan 323) and work up. I bet you can find a nice 35 that doesn't need too much for what you need. Cal 35, C&C Landfall 35, Bristol 35.5.....you'll spend $30k+ but you'll be set for coastal, deep blue or the dock.....with minimal bending at the waist.
> 
> Oh yeah.....lessons, books, vids.....sail......get experience any way you can.
> 
> Best of luck to you in this exciting time


Hate to argue  but I found a Buchan 37 which (barely) accommodates my height through most of the cabin. The v-berth was just long enough for me to stretch out. Everything about it was awesome except the head is just way too small to build a shower. Brand new Yanmar 22hp diesel (<50 hours on it, it's all sparkly. New gib and newish main, deck is all glass, everything works and all mechanical parts that shouldn't move didn't, and all those that should did. $12,500. This was the first >27 boat I looked at. Were I just looking for myself.....

Also, I'm not totally set on my budget. Even if I find something in the $20k range, I'll still probably finance it. I'd rather have $20k in my pocket for emergencies and pay off the boat with what I'd otherwise have paid for rent. $1500/m payments on a $20,000 load get's paid back real quick. If I really can't find something for $20k, I'll start entertaining throwing more at it, but just seems odd to me that so many people I've met have laughed at $20k and told me to wait for something for $10 and drop $5k on it my first day out and I should be good. We'll see I suppose...

Oh, just noticed you're from FL, FL. What the hell man? There are TONNES of most excellent boats in your area. I'm seriously considering packing up a month worth of supplies and driving down there as they have heaps of much nicer boats for much cheaper than is available up here.
Found 5 or 6 S-2 11.0c's in decent condition for <$20k.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Aside for scoping out boats, you might want to scope out moorage. The Lower Mainland does not have much in the way of avialble slips, especially for live-aboards.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

If it were easy we'd be be more over run with dreamers. It takes a few bucks to be in the market for the ship of your dreams .OTOH pissing that rent money against the wall is a great motivator. Live aboard moorage out side the crowd is affordable and available . Gulf Islands, Sooke and up da coast are good bets. Even Victoria harbour still has options. Buy what you like and work it off. .


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

jackdale said:


> Aside for scoping out boats, you might want to scope out moorage. The Lower Mainland does not have much in the way of avialble slips, especially for live-aboards.


1. Already done. Found 3 marina's that allow liveaboard. One is $8/f/m all inclusive.
2. While I'd plan to moor for a while, ultimately I have no reason to be tied to the shore. I'd probably end up anchoring/cruising in a year.

Vancouver hates liveaboards, but mostly in the downtown area. There's at least half a dozen liveaboard friendly marina's up the river a bit. If all went to hell, I could just pop over to Victoria area as well.


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## Murph (Jun 24, 2012)

In decent condition till you see ‘em……these are tough environs on any boat that’s not meticulously cared for…..and those boats cost more than that $20k.
That being said, “The Journey’s the thing!” I’ve learned that looking & learning can be an addictive pastime. I’ve found my perfect boat a dozen times already! While you look, consider acquiring these books: Annapolis Book of Seamanship(Rousmaniere), 20 Affordable Sailboats to Take you Anywhere(Nestor), This Old Boat(Casey), The Practical Mariner’s Book of Knowledge(Vigor). 
Also, subscribe to the mags, Good Old Boat & Practical Sailor are excellent……Read, take sailing lessons, get on board boats…..gain insight, knowledge & experience any way you can.
If you’re gonna single hand, go as small as you can…..easier, safer, cheaper.
I’ll be looking for your posts as you go……exasperating for you…..fun for me.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

If you equate going to hell with going to Vic maybe you should count on staying up the river, I live here by choice, not by default.


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

Capt Len said:


> If you equate going to hell with going to Vic maybe you should count on staying up the river, I live here by choice, not by default.


"if all went to hell" - meaning if moorage didn't work out here. Vic seems much more liveaboard friendly, is cheaper, and has a nicer climate. I'd be there by choice as well if the lady wasn't grounded to van by work


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

Actually, rethinking the finances. It's always better to have money in the bank. The day I move out of my apt, is the day I save $1500/m rent. Sure, I've got moorage and maintenance, but it won't approach my current rent. I think the faster I do this (not rushing... just saying) the faster I start saving money to put towards my NEXT boat 

I wonder if pulling down a $30,000 loan, and spending a little more on an appropriate boat starts to make sense considering my rent would have that loan paid off in under 4 years, and I'd have retained my $25 cash for emergencies... Ja?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

blistovmhz said:


> "if all went to hell" - meaning if moorage didn't work out here. Vic seems much more liveaboard friendly, is cheaper, and has a nicer climate.


True except Victoria is not cheaper. Nicer place to live though.


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

mitiempo said:


> True except Victoria is not cheaper. Nicer place to live though.


What's live aboard moorage like right now? Last I checked (a few hotels near downtown) it was usually around $9-$12/ft, though a few places, like Vancouver, charge upwards of $20/ft.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

It varies. Here's the link to the Victoria Harbour Authority rates for various marinas. Monthly is down the page a bit. Greater Victoria Harbour Authority

Keep in mind power is metered at Fissherman's and extra. Some marinas have an additional fee for liveaboard as well.

I am at the Coast Harbourside close to Fisherman's. We pay just over $16/ft but that includes unmetered power. The hotel facilities are nice as well - pool, hot tub, sauna, and workout gym - and included.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Well said, Denise. Blistov, it is very easy to make a very expensive mistake with boats. You've got next to no experience and no idea if this will really work for you, so unless you're really really rich, avoid the oddball boats which will have zero resale value if you change your mind. Like "He'll never sell it so I'll offer him five grand" or ferrocement boats, which have basically no market value in North America.

Go buy a small igloo cooler, buy a couple of cases of good beer, then start walking the docks and clubs after work, on weekends, or before races. "Hi, I wanna learn about boats I think I want to live on one. Can I offer you a beer for a few minutes of your time?"

Most folks will do it without the beer, just to share their hobby. But the beer, that's gonna make you real popular.<G>


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

hellosailor said:


> Well said, Denise. Blistov, it is very easy to make a very expensive mistake with boats. You've got next to no experience and no idea if this will really work for you, so unless you're really really rich, avoid the oddball boats which will have zero resale value if you change your mind. Like "He'll never sell it so I'll offer him five grand" or ferrocement boats, which have basically no market value in North America.
> 
> Go buy a small igloo cooler, buy a couple of cases of good beer, then start walking the docks and clubs after work, on weekends, or before races. "Hi, I wanna learn about boats I think I want to live on one. Can I offer you a beer for a few minutes of your time?"
> 
> Most folks will do it without the beer, just to share their hobby. But the beer, that's gonna make you real popular.<G>


haha  Yes, I'm definitely spending at least a few months learning. I'm leaning right now towards some of the OI CC's (though there's only one for sale anywhere nearby). I've been down to a bunch of marina's to BS with other liveaboards. Learnin' lots.


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## thesnort (Jun 2, 2007)

I haven't read all the replies, but at 6'5", be sure to lie down in the berth(s) of whatever boat you're looking at. Something like the Fantasia 35 has enough headroom (and windage), but always check your sleeping accommodations. You don't want to buy a liveaboard you can't sleep on.


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