# Is flying a pirate flag lame?



## radioguy

Hey guys and gals,

I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one? 

Thanks
RG


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## lydanynom

You'd get more of a consensus asking about US politics or MAC vs PC. 

A couple of recent threads containing a lot of talk and opinions about flags:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/66445-odd-u-s-ensign.html

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...ted/66502-flags-who-flies-what-where-why.html


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## FSMike

It's OK if you have a cannon.

Hell, anything's OK if you've got a cannon.


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## radioguy

Haha

Things to buy:

1. Cannon!

It's crazy reading what people write here "If I saw a pirate flag I'd fire on them!" .... Are you guys nuts? Good thing I (will be) sail on lakes!


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## DwayneSpeer

*lame?*

Lame? No, it is a statement of your state of mind at the time. Just be ready to share the rum to any and all boarders.


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## rockDAWG

radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG


It is your boat, do whatever you want. .

But as for me, I wouldn't unless I have compelling story to tell the world. Likewise, I wouldn't put bumper stickers on my car either.


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## wwilson

radioguy said:


> ...Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays?


Oh Yeah! Or worse.


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## Bene505

Real pirates don't fly the Jolly Roger, so you ought to be ok.

Regards,
Brad


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## PBzeer

Other than the fact that pirates rape, pillage, and have lousy hygiene (except in the movies), no, there's nothing wrong with showing your support


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## Allanbc

Flying the Jolly Roger is OK only if you have a large crew of scantily clad busty wenches.


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## TQA

Oh yes definitely lame.

There is a single exception but it requires your boat to be named the Black Pearl and the captain to be one Jack Sparrow.


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## smackdaddy

Definitely lame. And that's precisely why I fly one on the Smacktanic.


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## Kenif

If you have to ask don't bother!


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## Death3

its up to you. i fly the skull and cross bones everyday for my own reasons.


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## SVAuspicious

Seriously lame.


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## tomandchris

Seriously, if you like the flag fly it. Everyone has an opinion and a...you know the rest of the line I am sure. It is you boat, your pleasure, and as long as the admiral OK's it you should go for it.

Interesting that a discussion is going on about how slow SN has been lately, but in a matter of a couple of hours in the middle of the week, you have had responses both positive and negative add up quite quickly. Good job pirate!


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## MJBrown

I used to find the pirate theme amusing but after listening to the "Pirate Boat" come through Baltimore Harbor several times a day I now have had "All I can stands and I cant stands no more".


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## radioguy

What is a pirates favorite thing to do?

ARRRRRgue!


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## smackdaddy

Now that's funny.


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## wwilson

MJBrown said:


> I used to find the pirate theme amusing but after listening to the "Pirate Boat" come through Baltimore Harbor several times a day I now have had "All I can stands and I cant stands no more".


Here, here! *Wow* is that lame! Annapolis has one too, so bad - you are embarrassed *for* them!


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## sawingknots

the fact that your asking means you already know the answer


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## puddinlegs

In most cases, yes. 

Arrrrrr!!!


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## Death3

SVAuspicious ur [edit]

[Moderator's note: Death3, it appears you took SvAuspicious's post #15 on the previous page as a reply to your preceding comment. It wasn't. It was in answer to the O.P.'s original question in the title to this thread. Most members appreciate that we try to keep things civil here at Sailnet -- so I've edited your reply to SVA. Thanks.]


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## cormeum

I'll go with "Lame" for $100, Alex.


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## smackdaddy

"Your mother was 'lame' after I finished with her Trebec! Arrrr!"
-Sean Connery


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## mgmhead

Perfectly acceptable and heartily encouraged in Rock Hall MD for 'Pirates and Wenches' festival August 13-15. The rest of the year...yeah, it's pretty lame. But come on Buccaneer, it's your boat and you're the commander, fly yer underwear if it makes you happy.


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## MJBrown

wwilson, I know Annapolis has one as well. We were just on a mooring a couple of weeks ago and saw them. The young kids seem to have fun but it does get old. The Baltimore boat on a couple of occassions tried to corner me while I was in the inner harbor in the dinghy. I suspect they thought I'd make a good water pistol target. I've always been able to avoid him so far. Dumb on his part is he ever gets me, I know where he parks his caaaarghhh. haha


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## lapworth

Its just a phase, dont worry you will grow out of it. I hope there selling cannons on craigslist ( I am in the cannon phase ).


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## dnf777

I wouldn't do it off the coast of Somalia. Then again, I wouldn't BE off the coast of Somalia.


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## St Anna

Yes....


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## catamariner

We like to see the one with the motto printed beneath the skull&crossbones: "Time Flies When you're Having Rum." In that case, no lame, it's clear you are out to have fun and willing to generate fun. Even better if you're a wooden vessel of 60 ft or more, of course...


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## bljones

Okay, are we talking about the generic mass produced skull- and -crossbones that seems to hang from the radio whips of 45% of all SeaRays ever built?
Then yes, +1 for "lame".

If, however we are talking about a more colourful and unique flag with historical provenance, like Calico Jack's, or a well-crafted hand made flag, or you are flying said flag with purpose, ie; you are, actually, indeed a pirate who has buckled his fair share of swash, then the lameness factor is zero.


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## catamariner

LOL, BLJones, nice response. Some were more interesting than others, but better black than red, in this case. We fly what's required, plus an SSCA burgee when we remember, but that's mostly to be friendly  Now that we'll be cruising with kid, who knows what we're going to be flying at any given anchorage...! I can tell you, the young one owns at least one of "those" black-bkgd flags. Maybe he'll just hang it on the door to his cabin.


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## poopdeckpappy

Does it really matter what others think ??, if it does, then I'd say in that case, yes it would be lame


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## Danny33

Oh Yea.....Even bought a few extras for those that needed help in deciding


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## bljones

I have always liked Bart Roberts' flag:


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## smackdaddy

bljones said:


> I have always liked Bart Roberts' flag:


Yeah - but don't you actually fly this one?


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## T37Chef

*Vote: Yes = Lame*



radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG


I like to have fun as much as the next guy, but yes, I think they are lame as hell.


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## bljones

smackdaddy said:


> Yeah - but don't you actually fly this one?


Yep.
Amazing how many ships you can capture when flying that flag. By the time the crew figures out that you are there for a takeover, not a makeover, it's game over.

(come on, did you really think i'd have nuthin'?)


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## SimonV

Arrrrrr, lame it be yes, unless there be children on deck.


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## sailor50

I would be not be ashamed to fly any of those flags - what greater freedom than flying whatever we want, when we want, where we want? This is the USA! Who gives a Flying Fig? A pirate flag doesn't mean you're going to pillage the boats in the anchorage, a rainbow/unicorn flag doesn't mean you are going to try to convert everyone to go gay or go to Carnivale in Rio.

The proudest flag to fly today is the US Flag which should be on all boats, but there is nothing wrong with having fun with other flags, private signals, etc.


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## poopdeckpappy

sailor50 said:


> A pirate flag doesn't mean you're going to pillage the boats in the anchorage,


Nah, it sure don't. " The reputation of some does not represent the facts of all "; The majority proved to be invaluable to the development of the United States ie: the American Revolutionary War and the War of 1812


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## rgscpat

I have a skull and crossbones black flag with the legend "Commitment to Excellence" as a general parody of motivational slogans and ethics. 

Aaaaar we there yet?


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## sawingknots

i just fly my wife's bloomers,they also double as my main sail


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## PalmettoSailor

rgscpat said:


> I have a skull and crossbones black flag with the legend "Commitment to Excellence" as a general parody of motivational slogans and ethics.
> 
> Aaaaar we there yet?


Now that right there is funny. Especially given my work history:

Freddie Mac - Multiple Corporate scancals from a former CEO sleeping with his secretary and her promotions to high management, to the final melt down recently.
MCI - Complete loss of management focus while trying to merge with British Telcom (BT) allowing themselves to be outmanuvered and bought up by a High School Gym teacher.
WorldCom (WorldCon ?) A high school Gym teacher that "sold" bandwidth, which was then traded around among partners/subsidaries until it went nowhere, but the "sales" made for huge profits until the scheme fell apart and the company went bankrupt.
Cable and Wireless - Clueless Limey management ruling the company from England like a colony, got taken to the cleaners by WorldCon when they bought MCI's web hosting assets (which MCI/WorldCon had to sell as part of the merger deal). Apparently, the Limey's did zero due dilligence and found they had bought a bunch of empty data centers (big ones) with long term, iron clad leases that cost billions (with a "b") to get out of, finally breaking the companies back.

Common thread? Corrupt/incompetent upper Management? Yep!, but also each of these companies required me and all other employees to attend "Ethics Training". Clearly the employees were the problem and managment had the answer!

A Jolly Roger would at least have been truth in advertising.


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## sailingdog

sawingknots said:


> i just fly my wife's bloomers,they also double as my main sail


I take it she doesn't read sailnet.


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## djodenda

yes, but I wouldn't hold it against you


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## SecondWindNC

Here in ECU country there's a lot of 'em flying from cars and houses, too.

The beatings will continue until morale improves!


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## jcalvinmarks

I think you'll get your fair share of eye-rolls if it's the tired old cliche Jolly Roger (pirate-themed events notwithstanding).

It becomes less lame, as bljones said, if there's something interesting about it.

If it's handmade, you get creativity points, and it is less lame.
If it's a pirate flag other than the Jolly Roger (Blackbeard's, Black Bart's, etc.) then you get historical novelty points, and it is less lame.
If you're a geek, and it suits your fancy, you can fly this ... 








... it's at least a variation on a theme, and it's less lame.

But as others have said, nobody is going to stop you from doing it, so fly whatever you want.


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## MikeAR

our marina is Jolly Rogers Marina ... there are some on boats there ... but not on mine.


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## hellosailor

Fly any flag you please, just remember, you will be judged by it.

If you're flying the Jolly Roger that means pirate rules are fair and acceptable to you, so if I come aboard, plunder your boat, stuff you in a lazarette and hold you for ransom, YOU CAN'T COMPLAIN because that's the rules you chose to fly.

If that kind of behavior doesn't quite seem right...maybe you'd want to rethink your allegiance to that flag and strike it in favor of a martini burgee instead.


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## painkiller

If you have to ask, then YOU are too lame to fly it.


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## smackdaddy

+1.

When Pain speaks, the lame listen.


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## norsearayder

i a pirate born 200 years too late,ha ha but i still have fun machete on board in case hello or anyone else wants to plunder,i dont have a cannon,but i do have a 7mm remington magnm that some people call a cannon....my govt job bought me out of bissness for 32 years but now iam back .i do fly the jolly roger....hair shaved to look like grampa......there are still things to DO.....keep a low profile......also have ak47,ar15,4- 44mag rifles,44 mag pistol[in stainless] assorted hardware including 54 cal 1900 italian army musket and 50 cal blackpowder,etc.numerous wenches on the boat,schedueling is everything...if you feed me enough rum i will spill the truth....rayder


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## norsearayder

oh yeah my 7mil drops32 inch at 500 yards so if i aim fot the head the jewels go a flying


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## emoney

If you're willing (and capable) of whipping the a$% of anybody that makes
fun of you, then absolutely it's ok to fly it.

As for me, being a Tampa Bay resident, and Buccaneer fan, I can get away with having it on my car, in my office, over my bed....tatooed on my (edit).


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## smackdaddy

emoney said:


> If you're willing (and capable) of whipping the a$% of anybody that makes
> fun of you, then absolutely it's ok to fly it.
> 
> As for me, being a Tampa Bay resident, and Buccaneer fan, I can get away with having it on my car, in my office, over my bed....tatooed on my (edit).


Ladies and gentlemen...we have a winner!

Nicely played emo.


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## AE28

smack......
You only rate a _Rep Power: 3_, whilst norsearayder pulls down a 4???
Paul


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## Jacob12103

Not lame.

And anyone who insists his love of sailing has nothing to do with a desire to emulate the awesomeness of pirates is only fooling himself. Pirates and their favored mode of transportation are so entwined in the public consciousness that a layperson spying any tall ship, be it a museum's preserved windjammer, a fishing schooner, or even a vessel as theoretically famous as the USS Constitution floating just offshore is likely to exclaim, "Look, a pirate ship!"
It's hard to believe that anyone could get involved with such a singular pastime as sailing without being just a little inspired by its most famous, most romantic practitioners. Surely such a modest homage as a little flag, like the OP suggests, is justified.


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## smackdaddy

AE28 said:


> smack......
> You only rate a _Rep Power: 3_, whilst norsearayder pulls down a 4???
> Paul


What's this "Rep Power" you speak of and why should I give a damn?


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## AE28

I, for one, insist that my love of sailing has absolutely nothing to do with a desire to emulate the awesomeness of pirates, who were/still are thieves, at the very least!!!

I don't think I'm fooling myself.

I am not inspired by thieves, nor do I think they deserve homage, modest, or otherwise.

Paul


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## hellosailor

"Surely such a modest homage as a little flag, like the OP suggests, is justified."
So, collecting Ted Bundy Serial Killer Trading Cards is OK too, because everyone admires the freedoms he took?

Some things don't need to be romanticized. You can set your sights a little higher than the gutter.


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## radioguy

hellosailor said:


> "Surely such a modest homage as a little flag, like the OP suggests, is justified."
> So, collecting Ted Bundy Serial Killer Trading Cards is OK too, because everyone admires the freedoms he took?
> 
> Some things don't need to be romanticized. You can set your sights a little higher than the gutter.


If I could only pillage and plunder *ONE* village in my lifetime I'd be happy!


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## poopdeckpappy

> emulate the awesomeness of pirates, who were/still are thieves, at the very least!!!
> 
> I am not inspired by thieves, nor do I think they deserve homage, modest, or otherwise.





> So, collecting Ted Bundy Serial Killer Trading Cards is OK too, because everyone admires the freedoms he took?
> 
> Some things don't need to be romanticized. You can set your sights a little higher than the gutter.


Again I'll say, The reputation of some does not represent the facts of all....................read, you'd be surprized.

Most were contracted to serve under the flags of countries, including this country one; It's what happened politically after the services were no longer need that some ( not all ) rouge.

Hell, look at the tea party, their being judged as a whole for the acts of a few, God only knows how they'll be veiwed in 200 yrs


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## Insails

Letters of Marque....Or hired by a country.. Some were contracted by multible countries..Morgan was under English contract,but if you ask the spainish he was a "Pirate"...

Poopdeckpappy is dead on....


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## hellosailor

Letters of marque and reprisal would usually qualify a ship as a "privateer" as opposed to a pirate. And, regardless of who employs a thug, they're still thugs. Governments have sanctioned many conveniences over the years and rigorously denied many of them, time after time.


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## poopdeckpappy

Back in the 1700's neither Letters of Marque or Privateer Commissions issued by the Continintal Congress was recognized by any country because, as far as the world then was concerned, we had not gained our independence from Britian; therefore, any privatly owned vessel acting as privateers for the United Colonies were considered pirates by the enemies of the colonies

Ben Franklin was considered a pirate by Britian for commissioning several pirvate vessels to attack British Vessels, had the US lost the war Franklin might have been remembered by history not as a patriot, but as a villainous pirate and he would have been hung as one.

Patriot or Pirate depended on who's side you were, toward the end you were labeled a pirate if you didn't grease the right hands, if you bruised the wrong ego or those who commissioned you just threw you under the bus to save their own a$$

Like they say " History is written by the victors "


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## rgscpat

Now if you flew a nice shiny pirate flag sewn from fine metallic threads, that would be very lamé. 

However, you would only want to hoist such a flag in light-air conditions, since Wikipedia says "An issue with lamé is that it is subject to seam or yarn slippage, making it less than ideal for garments with frequent usage."


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## MarioG

It reminds me of the first boat I ever sailed, I'm sure it was called a Jolly Rogers..... lame

It is unmistakenly a symbel of freedom, That binds all sailors past or presant.... real lame

Damn my wench got on this flag thing so now we fly one at times and I can't think of a way of playing it off.

I have this untill the end of Sept. NC Sail.org Pirate Sail


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## painkiller

rgscpat said:


> Now if you flew a nice shiny pirate flag sewn from fine metallic threads, that would be very lamé.
> 
> However, you would only want to hoist such a flag in light-air conditions, since Wikipedia says "An issue with lamé is that it is subject to seam or yarn slippage, making it less than ideal for garments with frequent usage."


*rimshot*


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## swampcreek

I sail which seems to bother some power boaters. I sail a Macgregor which seems to bother some sailboaters (In cyberspace, on the bay and at the marina no problems). I know when I walk up the pier after a sail I have a smile on my face and thats what counts. Your boat is your world do what ever puts a smile on your face! My boats have flown The Stars And Stripes, Stars And Bars (I AM from Pasadena MD!!), Jolley Rogers, and a neat little novelty flag from Great Guana Cay (Abaco Bahamas). Again, what ever makes you SMILE!


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## PicassoIII

bljones said:


> Okay, are we talking about the generic mass produced skull- and -crossbones that seems to hang from the radio whips of 45% of all SeaRays ever built?
> Then yes, +1 for "lame".


Exactly. Be somehow original. Oh and don't skimp on the size or quality. It's bigger than you think.
Flag and Etiquette Committee
We were considering a Gadsden "Don't tread on me" but they only come printed. Oh and they've been co-opted by lame wanna be libertarians.
*ducks*
Since 'Betsy Ross' 13 stars are available embroidered we're getting that instead.

Now, can you and your crew live up to the expectations?


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## AE28

So, an assassin commissioned by the CIA is not a murderer?


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## Undine

As has been said:
Fly, wear, display the flag, burgee, logo that you want.

But be aware that certain ones are associated with particular types of people. And this varies with many factors; location, economics, ethnicity, education,etc. Take a look around you and see who displays what and how are they viewed. If you are comfortable with the association - do it. The next marina you visit it may be different.


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## sailjunkie

Only on Sept. 19th which, according to National Public Radio, is International Talk Like a Pirate Day. 

For more info, go to The Official site for International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19

Seriously, it's the kind of thing I see on over-powered cigarette boats that are driven by idiots. However, you have the right to fly what you please.


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## PicassoIII

Ah, one more reason to go BIG with this flag...
Battle ensign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## jerryrlitton

Speaking of Battle flags, here is something to be very cognizant of.

The flags displayed in State courts and courts of the United States have gold or yellow fringes. That is your WARNING that you are entering into a foreign enclave, the same as if you are stepping into a foreign embassy and you will be under the jurisdiction of that flag. The flag with the gold or yellow fringe has no constitution, no laws, and no rules of court, and is not recognized by any nation on the earth, and is foreign to you and the United States of America.

MILITARY FLAG WITH THE GOLD FRINGE

Martial Law Flag "Pursuant to 4 U.S.C. chapter 1, §§1, 2, & 3; Executive Order 10834, August 21, 1959; 24 F.R.6865; a military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a YELLOW FRINGE border on three sides. The President of the United States designates this deviation from the regular flag, by executive order, and in his capacity as Commander-in-Chief of the military. The placing of a fringe on the national flag, the dimensions of the flag and the arrangement of the stars in the union are matters of detail not controlled by statute, but are within the discretion of the President as Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy." 34 Ops. Atty. Gen. 83.

President, Dwight David Eisenhower, by Executive Order No.10834, signed on August 21, 1959 and printed in the Federal Register at 24 F.R. 6865, pursuant to law, stated that: "A military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a yellow fringe border on three sides."

THE LAW OF THE FLAG

The Law of the Flag, an International Law, which is recognized by every nation of the planet, is defined as:

"... a rule to the effect that a vessel is a part of the territory of the nation whose flag she flies. The term is used to designate the RIGHTS under which a ship owner, who sends his vessel into a foreign port, gives notice by his flag to all who enter into contracts with the ship master that he intends the Law of that Flag to regulate those contracts, and that they must either submit to its operation or not contract with him or his agent at all." Ref.: Ruhstrat v. People, 57 N.E. 41

By the doctrine of "four cornering" the flag establishes the law of the country that it represents. For example, the embassies of foreign countries, in Washington D.C., are "four cornered" by walls or fencing, creating an "enclave." Within the boundaries of the "enclave" of the foreign embassy, the flag of that foreign country establishes the jurisdiction and law of that foreign country, which will be enforced by the Law of the Flag and international treaty. If you enter an embassy, you will be subject to the laws of that country, just as if you board a ship flying a foreign flag, you will be subject to the laws of that flag, enforceable by the "master of the ship," (Captain), by the law of the flag.

When you enter a courtroom displaying a gold or yellow fringed flag, you have just entered into a foreign country, and you better have your passport with you, because you may not be coming back to the land of the free for a long time. The judge sitting under a gold or yellow fringe flag becomes the "captain" or "master" of that ship or enclave and he has absolute power to make the rules as he goes. The gold or yellow fringe flag is your warning that you are leaving your Constitutionally secured RIGHTS on the floor outside the door to that courtroom.

This is exactly why so many judges are appointed, and not elected by the people. The Federal judges are appointed by the President, the national military commander in chief. The State judges are appointed by the Governors, the state military commanders. The judges are appointed because the courts are military courts and civilians do not "elect" military officers.

Under martial law, you are presumed guilty until proven innocent.

The gold-fringed flag only stands inside military courts that sit in summary court martial proceedings against civilians and such courts are governed in part by local rules, but more especially by "The Manual of Courts Martial", U.S., 1994 Ed., at Art. 99, (c)(1)(b), pg. IV-34, PIN 030567-0000, U.S. Government Printing Office, Wash. D.C. The details of the crimes that civilians can commit, that are classed as 'Acts of War,' cover 125 pages in the Manual of Courts Martial.

Under Article IV, section 3, of the Constitution for the united States of America, no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State. So -- Why have the judges of the State and Federal courts been allowed to erect foreign enclaves within our public courthouses under a foreign flag with the yellow fringe upon the soil of your state?

We just thought you would like to know, so that the next time you see this yellow fringed flag you will know what you are looking at and what it really means. If you are in Spain and you see the National Flag of Spain, you would know that you are under the jurisdiction of Spain; and their laws govern you at this time. You are officially NOTICED when you see their flag. This is an admiralty law that says that all who see this flag understand they are governed by the laws of the country that this flag represents. You SHOULD understand that the gold or yellow fringed flag signifies the same thing. It is a notice to you that you are under the rules and regulations of the military force that is flying that flag.

Are you familiar with martial law?

Does your attorney understand what this flag means?

"It is an elementary rule of pleading, that a plea to the jurisdiction is a tacit (silent) admission that the court has a right to judge the case and is a waiver to all exception to the jurisdiction."(Girty v. Logan, 6 Bush KY, 8<o></o>

​
 
Get That Gold Fringe Off My Flag!


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## bljones

jerryrlitton said:


> Speaking of Battle flags, here is something to be very cognizant of.
> 
> The flags displayed in State courts and courts of the United States have gold or yellow fringes. That is your WARNING that you are entering into a foreign enclave, the same as if you are stepping into a foreign embassy and you will be under the jurisdiction of that flag. The flag with the gold or yellow fringe has no constitution, no laws, and no rules of court, and is not recognized by any nation on the earth, and is foreign to you and the United States of America.
> 
> MILITARY FLAG WITH THE GOLD FRINGE
> 
> Martial Law Flag "Pursuant to 4 U.S.C. chapter 1, §§1, 2, & 3; Executive Order 10834, August 21, 1959; 24 F.R.6865; a military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a YELLOW FRINGE border on three sides. The President of the United States designates this deviation from the regular flag, by executive order, and in his capacity as Commander-in-Chief of the military. The placing of a fringe on the national flag, the dimensions of the flag and the arrangement of the stars in the union are matters of detail not controlled by statute, but are within the discretion of the President as Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy." 34 Ops. Atty. Gen. 83.
> 
> President, Dwight David Eisenhower, by Executive Order No.10834, signed on August 21, 1959 and printed in the Federal Register at 24 F.R. 6865, pursuant to law, stated that: "A military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a yellow fringe border on three sides."
> 
> THE LAW OF THE FLAG
> 
> The Law of the Flag, an International Law, which is recognized by every nation of the planet, is defined as:
> 
> "... a rule to the effect that a vessel is a part of the territory of the nation whose flag she flies. The term is used to designate the RIGHTS under which a ship owner, who sends his vessel into a foreign port, gives notice by his flag to all who enter into contracts with the ship master that he intends the Law of that Flag to regulate those contracts, and that they must either submit to its operation or not contract with him or his agent at all." Ref.: Ruhstrat v. People, 57 N.E. 41
> 
> By the doctrine of "four cornering" the flag establishes the law of the country that it represents. For example, the embassies of foreign countries, in Washington D.C., are "four cornered" by walls or fencing, creating an "enclave." Within the boundaries of the "enclave" of the foreign embassy, the flag of that foreign country establishes the jurisdiction and law of that foreign country, which will be enforced by the Law of the Flag and international treaty. If you enter an embassy, you will be subject to the laws of that country, just as if you board a ship flying a foreign flag, you will be subject to the laws of that flag, enforceable by the "master of the ship," (Captain), by the law of the flag.
> 
> When you enter a courtroom displaying a gold or yellow fringed flag, you have just entered into a foreign country, and you better have your passport with you, because you may not be coming back to the land of the free for a long time. The judge sitting under a gold or yellow fringe flag becomes the "captain" or "master" of that ship or enclave and he has absolute power to make the rules as he goes. The gold or yellow fringe flag is your warning that you are leaving your Constitutionally secured RIGHTS on the floor outside the door to that courtroom.
> 
> This is exactly why so many judges are appointed, and not elected by the people. The Federal judges are appointed by the President, the national military commander in chief. The State judges are appointed by the Governors, the state military commanders. The judges are appointed because the courts are military courts and civilians do not "elect" military officers.
> 
> Under martial law, you are presumed guilty until proven innocent.
> 
> The gold-fringed flag only stands inside military courts that sit in summary court martial proceedings against civilians and such courts are governed in part by local rules, but more especially by "The Manual of Courts Martial", U.S., 1994 Ed., at Art. 99, (c)(1)(b), pg. IV-34, PIN 030567-0000, U.S. Government Printing Office, Wash. D.C. The details of the crimes that civilians can commit, that are classed as 'Acts of War,' cover 125 pages in the Manual of Courts Martial.
> 
> Under Article IV, section 3, of the Constitution for the united States of America, no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State. So -- Why have the judges of the State and Federal courts been allowed to erect foreign enclaves within our public courthouses under a foreign flag with the yellow fringe upon the soil of your state?
> 
> We just thought you would like to know, so that the next time you see this yellow fringed flag you will know what you are looking at and what it really means. If you are in Spain and you see the National Flag of Spain, you would know that you are under the jurisdiction of Spain; and their laws govern you at this time. You are officially NOTICED when you see their flag. This is an admiralty law that says that all who see this flag understand they are governed by the laws of the country that this flag represents. You SHOULD understand that the gold or yellow fringed flag signifies the same thing. It is a notice to you that you are under the rules and regulations of the military force that is flying that flag.
> 
> Are you familiar with martial law?
> 
> Does your attorney understand what this flag means?
> 
> "It is an elementary rule of pleading, that a plea to the jurisdiction is a tacit (silent) admission that the court has a right to judge the case and is a waiver to all exception to the jurisdiction."(Girty v. Logan, 6 Bush KY, 8<o></o>
> 
> ​
> 
> Get That Gold Fringe Off My Flag!


Then maybe somebody should have told these guys:
Seen at Reagan's funeral:


----------



## bljones

btw, here's a copy of the real wording of EX Ord 10834

United States Code: Title 4,1. Flag; stripes and stars on | LII / Legal Information Institute

Note that there is no specification regarding gold fringe.


----------



## jerryrlitton

bljones said:


> btw, here's a copy of the real wording of EX Ord 10834
> 
> United States Code: Title 4,1. Flag; stripes and stars on | LII / Legal Information Institute
> 
> Note that there is no specification regarding gold fringe.


Yes you are correct. It says:

"Section 1. The flag of the United States shall have thirteen horizontal stripes, alternate red and white, and a union consisting of white stars on a field of blue."

NO GOLD, PURPLE OR MAHOGANY EITHER.

Jerry


----------



## cb32863

So another seemingly innocent post on SailNet gets twisted around in to a political argument. The original post is now completely lost. Time to move this one to off topic..... Why does this happen all the time here??


----------



## Saildoggie

Flag ettiquite threads always lead to eminant disaster on another travel/sailing board I frequent.
I have a nice collection of flags and fly what I want to thank you.


----------



## jcalvinmarks

Yup. Hijacking a thread to prattle on about the evils of gold-fringed flags is even more lame than flying a mass-produced Jolly Roger.


----------



## DwayneSpeer

*Balanced view*

In interest of a balanced view I present the following:

FRINGE ON THE UNITED STATES FLAG?

For many years rumors have been spread through the United States concerning the origin and meaning of the gold fringe which frequently decorates the Stars and Stripes. It has been claimed that such fringe is without proper authorization; that it is symbolic of the end of the gold standard as the basis for United States currency; or that it indicates the substitution of admiralty courts and martial law for common law courts and procedures, as part of a conspiracy supposedly instigated by Communists, Jews, Masons, liberals, feminists, homosexuals, or other "un-American" groups.

The Flag Research Center has not conducted a thorough investigation of all the claims being made about fringe, many of which are spread by radio talk programs, cassette tapes, lectures and other non-written forms. Nevertheless its unique resources allow the Center to state the following with certainty:
Available evidence seems to suggest that the claims made about fringe on the United States flag are intended to promote the political ends -- including elimination of income taxes, re-establishment of the gold standard, and denial of legal rights to women, non-Christians, and non-Caucasians -- of those who spread those rumors.
From the standpoint of history and law, fringe on a flag has no symbolism. While each individual is free to interpret the meaning of fringe, it has no inherent or established universal symbolism.
While fringe is frequently used on military flags and in formal settings (parades, public meetings, offices of government officials, courts, inaugurations, dedication ceremonies, etc.), it is also widely used in the private sector. Examples of private usage of fringe on flags in the United States extend back for 200 years.
Fringe is and always has been a purely decorative addition -- an optional enhancement of the beauty of a flag, added on a discretionary basis when the flag is purchased. In the private sector and for non-military government uses, use of fringe is like the choice of polyester or nylon over cotton or wool for the flag itself -- simply a matter of enhancing the appearance of the flag.
Title Four of the "United States Code" which defines the Stars and Stripes neither prescribes nor proscribes the use of cords and tassels, heading, sleeve, fringe, and other accessories to the flag. It is universally recognized that the symbolic aspect of the flag is inherent in its colors and symbols, not in the physical characteristics of the flag or the things (like fringe) added to it when it is displayed.
Admiralty courts deal only with maritime contracts, collisions at sea, and similar naval questions, not with normal civil and criminal cases. There is no symbol in the United States which indicates an admiralty court. While international treaties require that ships display the national flag, maritime flags never have fringe.
Martial law is not mentioned in the United States constitution nor has martial law ever been proclaimed in the United States. The use or non-use of fringe on a United States flag in a court has nothing to do with the jurisdiction of the court or with martial law.
Data Summary Sheet No. 1 3/95
(c) Copyright 1995 by the Flag Research Center; All Rights Reserved.


----------



## SVAuspicious

Saildoggie said:


> Flag ettiquite threads always lead to eminant disaster on another travel/sailing board I frequent.
> I have a nice collection of flags and fly what I want to thank you.


I will sneak aboard at night to cut your flags down and retreat to Brewer's Bay where you cannot follow.

:laugher


----------



## Saildoggie

SVAuspicious said:


> I will sneak aboard at night to cut your flags down and retreat to Brewer's Bay where you cannot follow.
> 
> :laugher


Sure you will, and why exactly can I not follow into Brewers Bay?

Know loud and clear, univited guests aboard on my watch...Beware of Dawg!!!:batter


----------



## swampcreek

cb32863 said:


> So another seemingly innocent post on SailNet gets twisted around in to a political argument. The original post is now completely lost. Time to move this one to off topic..... Why does this happen all the time here??


WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T LIKE PIZZA!!!!!


----------



## rgscpat

*Oh no not the pizza dissension*

Pizza can get extremely political, as political as mixing Chicago style pizza with Chicago politics. Deep dish, stuffed crust, thin, pan. Round or square? Does it really have much to do with Italy? And the ingredient wars, oh no.

Now to return the thread in the vague heading of the original post, is it proper to fly the pizza flag below the cold beer flag on the port spreader? And is it a deceptive "ruse of war" or "false colors" to display a cold beer flag when there's only light beer on board, and no real beer?

And how do you decode the the secret meaning if you see gold fringe on the pizza flag and then play it backward?


----------



## JimMcGee

*Un-Bunch Your Panties!!!*

Good Lord will you guys un-bunch your panties! The poor newbie just asked if people would think he was lame if he flew a pirate flag ! Obviously he's just looking to have a little fun so lighten the %$$#[email protected] up. Sheesh. 

Next thing you know we're arguing about the meaning of gold fringe on the flag.

Will the moderator please pour a glass of rum for everyone to lighten the mood.










BTW, I fly a US flag with a Conch Republic flag underneath because we get a kick out of it. If you get the joke you're welcome aboard for a drink.


----------



## jcalvinmarks

rgscpat said:


> ... is it a deceptive "ruse of war" or "false colors" to display a cold beer flag when there's only light beer on board, and no real beer?


It most decidedly is. Expect to walk the plank if someone catches you doing that.



rgscpat said:


> And how do you decode the the secret meaning if you see gold fringe on the pizza flag and then play it backward?


I don't know, but flying the beer flag upside down is a little-known distress signal. It signifies that you're out of beer.


----------



## cb32863

LMAO Much better!

:thewave:


----------



## PicassoIII

jcalvinmarks said:


> Yup. Hijacking a thread to prattle on about the evils of gold-fringed flags is even more lame than flying a mass-produced Jolly Roger.


Not really.
While the 'wall of text' IS annoying, it's only a tangent. Not totally off topic. Interesting information, even if potentially biased. I've never heard of this before or glossed over while researching where and under what conditions to fly on a sailboat.

Back on topic: Fly a flag and you are making a statement of some kind, period. And people will take it different ways. Hence my reticence to fly a 'Don't Tread On Me' these days. Combined with the 'Steal Your Face' Dead sticker on the ass end 'specially (not much i can do, 'Ripple' came with it and one of the original partners put it there).

As much as we can read something unintended, the 'skull and bones' is pretty much part of the boating culture ......... utterly common and pedestrian.
If you can't get an original design at least go high quality. Decent heft so it makes substantial sounds when in a breeze. One of the advantages of a sailboat is that you do can put something way up there.
A flag whose height is around 1/3 of mast looks pretty sweet IMHO.


----------



## swampcreek

I don't know, but flying the beer flag upside down is a little-known distress signal. It signifies that you're out of beer.[/QUOTE]

^ Quote ^ I messed up the quote!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Or almost as bad...Out of ICE!

I gotta get off this computer! Time to swim my 30 minutes in the pool...Gotta work off that pizza and beer!

Later!


----------



## MDRHUNTER

yes


----------



## lydanynom

PicassoIII said:


> 'Ripple' came with it and one of the original partners put it there


Lol @ the irony.

"It's a hand-me-down, the thoughts are broken.
Perhaps they're better left unsung."


----------



## PicassoIII

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/attac...385529-flying-pirate-flag-lame-pirateslip.jpg

That's ok .... of course it could be bigger.
*ducks*


----------



## PicassoIII

lydanynom said:


> Lol @ the irony.
> 
> "It's a hand-me-down, the thoughts are broken.
> Perhaps they're better left unsung."


Heh, at least she wasn't named 'Sugar Mag', 'Sunshine Daydream' or is it the inverse.
*rolls eyes*
I've gone to a few shows, played in a band that did covers once ... it's just not my favorite genre. And for some it's lifestyle, the Commodore isn't that bad fortunately. He likes Buffet more, i tolerate. You own a boat, he's everywhere.
*shakes head*
If i'm DJ it's much more ... eclectic. 
We all think the Pirate meme is fun if a little silly.

'Ripple' is a very good name otherwise so no need to possibly piss off Poseiden and redo it wrong. But if the Comm resigns, that multicolored stoner skull is GONE.


----------



## NCountry

So after reading the entire thread I'm still a little confused...
If I fly a beer flag upside down then it signifies I'm out of beer?\
If I fly a pirate flag upside down then it signifies that the wenches on board are no longer willing to submit to being pillaged?
and if there's gold fringe on my upside down pirate flag then I'm announcing to the world that Liberace is on board or that he's some how associated with pillaging my piano?
I might have to give up sailing. I just don't understand all these complicated rules. Anyone want to buy a Gulfstar 44? I've just discovered that despite my sailing proficieny I'm just not smart enough to handle all the rules.....or is that heritage?


----------



## jerryrlitton

cb32863 said:


> So another seemingly innocent post on SailNet gets twisted around in to a political argument. The original post is now completely lost. Time to move this one to off topic..... Why does this happen all the time here??


 Not all the time, I must have told you a million times not to exaggerate.


----------



## jerryrlitton

A quick recap;

Unauthorized use of official flags, guidons, and streamers. Display or use 
of flags, guidons, and streamers or replicas thereof, including those 
presently or formerly carried by U.S. Army units, by other than the office, 
individual, or organization for which authorized, is prohibited except as 
indicated in below.
Use only by recognized United States Army division associations..." United 
States Army Regulation AR 640-10, October 1, 1979

According to Army Regulations, (AR 840-10, Oct. 1, 1979.) "the Flag is 
trimmed on three sides with Fringe of Gold, 2 1/2 inches wide," and that, 
"such flags are flown indoors, ONLY in military courtrooms." And that the 
Gold Fringed Flag is not to be carried by anyone except units of the United 
States Army, and the United States Army division associations."

The Authority For Fringe On The Flag Is Specified In Army Regulations, But 
Only For The National (Military) Flag!The U.S. Attorney General has stated: "The placing of a gold fringe on the national flag, the dimensions of the flag, and the arrangements of the 
stars in the union are matters of detail not controlled by statute, but are 
within the discretion of the President as Commander-in-Chief of the Army 
and Navy. ...ancient custom sanctions the use of fringe on regimental 
colors and standards, but there seems to be no good reason or precedent for 
its use on other flags. . .the use of such a fringe is prescribed in 
current Army Regulations, No. 260-10." (See 34 Ops. Atty. Gen. 483 & 485) 
The only statute or regulation, in the United States, prescribing a yellow 
fringed United States flag is Army Regulation No. 260-10, making it a 
military flag.

By Army Regulation 260-10, the gold fringe may be used only on regimental 
"colors," the President's flag, for military courts martial, and the flags 
used at military recruiting centers. "A military flag emblem of a nation, 
usually made of cloth and flown from a staff; FROM A MILITARY STANDPOINT 
flags are of two general classes...those flown from stationary masts over 
army posts, and those carried by troops in formation. The former are 
referred to by the general name of flags. The later are called colors when 
carried by dismounted troops. COLORS AND STANDARDS are more nearly square 
than flags and are made of silk, with a knotted FRINGE OF YELLOW ON THREE 
SIDES. . .USE OF A FLAG -- THE MOST GENERAL AND APPROPRIATE USE OF THE FLAG 
IS AS A NATIONAL SYMBOL OF AUTHORITY AND POWER." (National Encyclopedia, 
Vol. 4)


----------



## PicassoIII

NCountry said:


> and if there's gold fringe on my upside down pirate flag then I'm announcing to the world that Liberace is on board or that he's some how associated with pillaging my piano?


Oh wow its the fabulous Flying Dutchman.
So you're also ........... undead we presume.
*smirk*



NCountry said:


> If I fly a pirate flag upside down then it signifies that the wenches on board are no longer willing to submit to being pillaged?


One never, EVER admits to that.
Lets forget we heard that, OK?

These wenches you speak of, we'd have to assume they're also ...... not of the living. I do have a soft spot for cute goth girls.


----------



## SEMIJim

Wow, a... neon, is it? mast...










That must be handy at night :laugher

Jim


----------



## therapy23

Tall too!


----------



## poopdeckpappy

NCountry said:


> I just don't understand all these complicated rules.


It's really not that complicated, the only one I have a problem with is the " Out of Pizza " distress signal, when I fly my pizza flag upside down........it looks the same, until the chesse slides off........I'm affraid I'll never see another pizza


----------



## SVAuspicious

Saildoggie said:


> Sure you will, and why exactly can I not follow into Brewers Bay?


Redlined.

*grin*


----------



## swampcreek

SEMIJim said:


> Wow, a... neon, is it? mast...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That must be handy at night :laugher
> 
> Jim


Yeah, the sun hit that at just the right angle.

Hey poopdeckpappy! THATS A MAGNIFICENT boat you have! I really hope to one day end up with one. You'll hear me refer (again and again) to our Abaco Bahamas trip and taking ASA courses (Mentally I have never fully returned from there), we did that for a week on a 37' 1977 Tayana Cutter. What an absoulutley wonderful boat! Wonderful, wonderful,wonderful. Here is a pic of the "Locadune". You'll notice the Admiral on deck, we spent our 10th wedding anniversary doing all that. We plan on returning next spring, that boat was retired after we left, I only hope the newer fancy boats will have some of the character that Tayana had. You're very fortunate to have such a gorgeous boat.


----------



## Danny33

So ...Ahh What am I giong to do with my pirate flag now.
Im going to put it up on E Bay


----------



## poopdeckpappy

Thanks swampcreek, we love this boat in every way, she's solid as a rock both under sail and in workmanship and the warm characteristics is hard to beat.

Couple more yrs and she ( and us ) will be ready to go


----------



## JimMcGee

Jeez, 11 pages!

Who'da thought a simple pirate flag question would cause so much arrrgh-gument?









I think this thread is overdue for a shot of Pusser's rum and Michael Beans the sailing pirate singer








YouTube - ‪Michael Beans at Marina Cay, BVI 2‬‎
YouTube - ‪Michael Bean's takes you sailing away, S/V RAGAMUFFIN BVI sailing adventure Caribbean vacation‬‎

Jim


----------



## rgscpat

*Thanks for all the good advice*

This has been a very helpful, focused thread.

It seems that folks have covered just about all the contingencies, except maybe the meaning of the upside-down beer flag if it has gold lamé fringe.

Now, if I'm coming to visit another sailing or yacht club, is it appropriate to display only one of the burgees of the clubs to which I belong? Or could I display more than one, and, if so, should I display them on the same pennant halyard with them arranged from top to bottom in order of club seniority or in the order in which I joined the clubs? Or in order or reverse order of the proximity to the club visited? Or should each club burgee be displayed on its own pennant halyard, which would allow me to display position flags under each one?


----------



## jgeissinger

The senior club takes precedence, with any position pennant under it. I believe the proper flag etiquette is that only that burgee should be flown, but I have put a secondary club up also at times.


----------



## jerryrlitton

rgscpat said:


> This has been a very helpful, focused thread.
> 
> It seems that folks have covered just about all the contingencies, except maybe the meaning of the upside-down beer flag if it has gold lamé fringe.
> 
> Now, if I'm coming to visit another sailing or yacht club, is it appropriate to display only one of the burgees of the clubs to which I belong? Or could I display more than one, and, if so, should I display them on the same pennant halyard with them arranged from top to bottom in order of club seniority or in the order in which I joined the clubs? Or in order or reverse order of the proximity to the club visited? Or should each club burgee be displayed on its own pennant halyard, which would allow me to display position flags under each one?


Just be sure to salute the colors (whatever they may be) on the stern, ask the officer on deck for permission to board then wait for the OOD to do his thing. Or a cold six-pack will accomplish the same thing.

Jerry


----------



## rgscpat

*Fly Burgees, hold the lamé*

Try to be silly, and I get a good answer that I can actually use. Oh well.

Since we have some knowledgeable folks here, here's another one. I have a collection of burgees of clubs I've visited, which hangs on the living room wall of our cabin. Might it be fun but still proper to display these burgees on our boat when we dress ship for holidays? If so, should I bother to try to hang them in order of club seniority and in such a way as to make it obvious that I'm not pretending to be a member of those clubs but have merely enjoyed their hospitality and am wishing them all well?


----------



## windjammer21

Yes. Jean and Pierre LaFitte never flew the pirate flag.


----------



## capta

Why is it people feel the need to fly pirate flags and idolize these characters?
They were (and still are) murders and lowlifes; not worthy of praise nor respect.
For whatever reason they became pirates, they were not the kind of folks one would want to encounter today, nor were they probably the highlight of any vessel captain's day, back when.
Should we fly a flag to show our love and respect for Jeffrey Dahmer, Timothy McVeigh or Jack the Ripper? 
Yes, I'll vote for lame, very lame.


----------



## jwing

When I see a skull and crossbones banner flying, I consider it lame. If I were to subsequently see that the boat's name is "Poison" or "Mustard Gas" or something similar, I would think it moderately amusing.


----------



## Donna_F

Before we rehash the issue of real vs. costumed pirates and get into a tussle over a dredged up 3 year old thread, we've been up and down this road recently and it wasn't a joy ride.

If there's value in bringing up old threads that's OK, but this topic is one that rarely remains civil.


----------



## windjammer21

Amen. That goes for even lamer pirate festivals, theme parks, and the like.


----------



## gedaggett

To each his own, however here are the two rules on my boat. No one over the age of 14 is allowed to talk or dress like a pirate (unless it is to entertain children) and NO JIMMY BUFFET........EVER! (sorry just not my cup of tea)


----------



## T37Chef

What about pirate movies?


----------



## smackdaddy

gedaggett said:


> To each his own, however here are the two rules on my boat. No one over the age of 14 is allowed to talk or dress like a pirate (unless it is to entertain children) and NO JIMMY BUFFET........EVER! (sorry just not my cup of tea)


+1.

On my boat, however, you ARE allowed to SING JB songs, but ONLY in a pirate voice, and ONLY when you're wicked drunk.

The children are always entertained by that.


----------



## unimacs

I have teenagers. Being lame is my job and I do it with pride. That said I have a "Blarney Bones" flag.










BTW: I believe the word "lame" is now lame.


----------



## Minnesail

Last summer I was at a water park in the Wisconsin Dells that had a cheesy pirate-themed section and a cheesy dinosaur-themed section. Where they met by the mini-golf there was some overlap that involved dinosaurs on pirate ships. At the time I was horrified by the crass commercialism and the historically ridiculous mixture.

But now that I think about it… A pterodactyl screeching off the bow of a pirate ship? Frack yeah!


----------



## mattt

Minnesail said:


> Last summer I was at a water park in the Wisconsin Dells that had a cheesy pirate-themed section and a cheesy dinosaur-themed section. Where they met by the mini-golf there was some overlap that involved dinosaurs on pirate ships. At the time I was horrified by the crass commercialism and the historically ridiculous mixture.
> 
> But now that I think about it&#8230; A pterodactyl screeching off the bow of a pirate ship? Frack yeah!


Or just a dinosaur. I love it, that would confuse the hell out of people at the marina. Just put a sh**load of dinosaur imagery all over your boat. And never answer questions about it.


----------



## azguy

Pirate flag = lame

Starts and Stripes = cool


----------



## GeorgeB

Too funny - all this angst about flying frivolous flags and burgees. Years ago, our YC had a pirates theme for all the cruise-outs for that year so everyone was required to fly some version of the Jolly Roger while on organized cruises. I bought a Condent flag as it looked most like a burgee. My nephews, all big "Pirates of the Caribbean" fans, thought that one was lame so they bought me a "proper" Jolly Roger when they were down at Disneyland. The youngest one is now in college and he still insists on flying that Roger when he sails with us. He also likes to play the movie's sound track at full blast through the cockpit speakers as we pound across San Francisco Bay. Lame? Don't really care, the three amigos have a great time and MrsB wears earplugs when the music gets cranked up.


----------



## Minnesail




----------



## captflood

GREETINGS EARTHLINGS; you fly that flag in UK waters the customs can blow you clean out of the water AND DOES NOT HAVE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS as the law has not been resinded (so it's still in force) AS ALWAYS GO SAFE


----------



## SVAuspicious

Remember the Quest.


----------



## Don L

radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG


In case after 3 years you are still wondering ..................... it's lame!


----------



## GeorgeB

Captflood, can you send us a link to this law? Do they publish pictures of the flags they are supposed to "shoot on sight"? On a side note, is it still illegal to wear the kilts of the clans in rebellion?


----------



## JimMcGee

Aww hell why take life so seriously?

If you like flying a pirate flag GO FOR IT - and don't give a rat's furry butt what anyone else thinks


----------



## JimMcGee

Here's a pirate that'll make you smile


----------



## SimonV

gedaggett said:


> To each his own, however here are the two rules on my boat. No one over the age of 14 is allowed to talk or dress like a pirate (unless it is to entertain children) and NO JIMMY BUFFET........EVER! (sorry just not my cup of tea)


My wife likes Jimmy Buffet, So I like Jimmy Buffet. A big NO to the pirate flag. "The Jolly Roger is any of various flags flown to identify a ship's crew as pirates that were about to attack", So if you see a boat with the jolly roger flying and you can not discern children aboard, then they must be pirates and they are informing you they plan to attack. If you can attack first especially if they are at anchor. Flour bombs would be most effective delivered in a broadside.


----------



## Tallswede

Summa ya'll are way too serious. I mean really, if I was gunna be a REAL pirate I sure wouldn't be flying the Jolly Roger. I'd try to look just like one of those uppity yachties with a blue blazer and gold plate. Oh wait, some of them are real pirates! LOL. 

Kevin


----------



## GeorgeB

And another thing that amazes me is men going open collar and no ascot and calling that "casual". It's not "casual", it's under dressed!


----------



## Chas H

radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG


I bought a pirate t-shirt in Old Town San Diego after sharing a pitcher of margaritas with my wife. I wore it once...decided it was lame. In my old life the inherent bad in me would have enjoyed the adventure of pirating...though not as intense as Ed Teach.

Reading this thread is the most fun I've had on sailnet! I appreciate ya'll sense of humor, zeal, and for the most part respect for each other.

jerryrlitton - Thank you for serving. I'm proud of you guys.


----------



## aeventyr60

You may mistake my Grateful Dead gear for pirate stuff. Long live Jerry Garcia!


----------



## ccriders

Say what you will, my 6 & 4 year old grandsons certainly thought it was pretty cool to hoist the Jolly Roger to the starboard spreader and the JCS (me -Army, my son -marine and my son-in-law -Air Force) flew The Stars and Stripes from the aft rail. 
Everyone had a great sail.
John


----------



## unimacs

ccriders said:


> Say what you will, my 6 & 4 year old grandsons certainly thought it was pretty cool to hoist the Jolly Roger to the starboard spreader and the JCS (me -Army, my son -marine and my son-in-law -Air Force) flew The Stars and Stripes from the aft rail.
> Everyone had a great sail.
> John


No matter what you do to your boat it's going to offend the sensibilities of someone, somewhere. I'm not recommending that people be deliberately crude and offensive, but I don't think pirate flags rise to that level.


----------



## vega1860

radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG


Yes. Unequivocally. Very lame.

The only excuse for flying a jolly roger on a yacht is that you have children under the age of ten and have just returned from a trip to Disney World.

OTOH, it is a good signal to other boaters that you intend to get drunk and obnoxious and make a lot of noise in an otherwise peaceful anchorage.

(That is just our experience, YMMV)


----------



## Minnesail

vega1860 said:


> OTOH, it is a good signal to other boaters that you intend to get drunk and obnoxious and make a lot of noise in an otherwise peaceful anchorage.


Oh, I'd better get one then.


----------



## SecondWindNC

I can't believe people get bent out of shape over stuff like this, on either side. If you get a kick out flying a jolly roger, have at it. If it doesn't amuse you, don't fly one. Why judge and be negative about someone else who does take some enjoyment from it, for whatever reason? Around here, with East Carolina University (Pirates) just down the road, and a great deal of pirate-related history in the area, including the wreck of the Queen Anne's Revenge (currently being excavated and preserved), there are a lot of boats that fly pirate flags, both the generic jolly rogers and the ones that are specific to certain pirates. It's for fun. Build a bridge and get over it.


----------



## Morild

As a personal friend of one the members of the Danish family that were captured by pirates, I would like to contribute.

During the time they were captured, I felt a little sick when I saw a boat flying the pirate flag, but I know, that it is more about my feelings and not the victims.
They are totally capable of seeing it for what it is, just a prank, and would not be offended, and why should I then?

Whenever I have seen a boat with the pirate flag, it has always been with happy kids on board, having a good time. No need to put anything more into it.


----------



## Ferretchaser

Its only lame if you have a peg leg and an eye patch. But then you could fly one of them blue flags with a wheel chair on it and can park the boat anywhere.


----------



## vega1860

It is not possible to go through life without offending *someone*. No matter what flag you fly someone will not like it. I know one boater who will not fly the US Ensign because "It's embarrassing". I know another who gets angry when he sees a boat under way without one.

What is that line from that old Rick Nelson tune?

"You can't please everyone so you have to please yourself" 

Some places we see a lot of jolly rogers.

Some places a lot of Gadsden flags or Earth flags or rainbow flags.

Here we see a lot of these










and no doubt there are some who are offended.


----------



## GeorgeB

I'm offended!  Shouldn't they be flying something like this?


----------



## Minnesail

vega1860 said:


> Here we see a lot of these
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and no doubt there are some who are offended.


Alt for Norge!


----------



## capttb

Some people think a pirate flag sends a signal, that signal is "This is my first boat !!!", if you are comfortable with that, fly whatever you like.
I used to fly a First Navy Jack but people started thinking it was linked with the Tea Party (it's not) so I quit.


----------



## boatpoker

We appreciate those who fly the jolly roger, we consider it a heads up. It has been our experience that those flying the jolly roger tend to be immature and are likely the loudest drunken crew in the anchorage. When we see one we head to the other end of the anchorage


----------



## AlaskaMC

boatpoker said:


> We appreciate those who fly the jolly roger, we consider it a heads up. It has been our experience that those flying the jolly roger tend to be immature and are likely the loudest drunken crew in the anchorage. When we see one we head to the other end of the anchorage


So this gives me an idea! When my wife and I want a quiet night on the hook follow these steps...

1. Get there first and take the best spot
2. Hoist the Jolly Roger
3. Play "Who let the dogs out", "Hammertime", "Cheeseburger in Paradise" etc VERY loud whenever anyone comes near
4. When everyone leaves, change music, drop flag, enjoy


----------



## capttb

> 1. Get there first and take the best spot
> 2. Hoist the Jolly Roger
> 3. Play "Who let the dogs out", "Hammertime", "Cheeseburger in Paradise" etc VERY loud whenever anyone comes near
> 4. When everyone leaves, change music, drop flag, enjoy


Or you'll attract every stinkpotter with a neck tattoo within a hundred miles lookin' for the party.


----------



## AlaskaMC

capttb said:


> Or you'll attract every stinkpotter with a neck tattoo within a hundred miles lookin' for the party.


Why do you have to be the screen door on my submarine? 

Neck tattoo :laugher


----------



## boatpoker

Thanks TB, you beat me to it


----------



## bobperry

Dag:
I had the same rules on my boat. Except it was:
"No one Under the age of 14 is allowed to talk or dress like a pirate."


----------



## Minnesail

boatpoker said:


> It has been our experience that those flying the jolly roger tend to be immature and are likely the loudest drunken crew in the anchorage.


I definitely need to get one. Maybe two, just to be safe.


----------



## poopdeckpappy

Boy, some of the post against a pirate flag are more lame then flying the damn flag; Now I'm thinking if it's going to ward off the Thruston Howell running around? I may have to dig mine out.


----------



## vtsailguy

It's certainly not lame in the right context.....










1. Sailing on us waters, we are technically British privateers
2. Our sexy racing sails are black, just like The Pearl
3. We are in front of you round the mark

We have matching logos on our caps


----------



## vtsailguy

vtsailguy said:


> It's certainly not lame in the right context.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Sailing on us waters, we are technically British privateers
> 2. Our sexy racing sails are black, just like The Pearl
> 3. We are in front of you round the mark
> 
> We have matching logos on our caps


And if anyone knows of a 5x8 version of our Blackbeard colors that I can buy, I will shake their hand! I need something bigger, we get so far ahead in races our 2x5 version can't be seen any more....


----------



## AlaskaMC

vtsailguy said:


> And if anyone knows of a 5x8 version of our Blackbeard colors that I can buy, I will shake their hand! I need something bigger, we get so far ahead in races our 2x5 version can't be seen any more....


Found one in Italy. Get Paulo to send it. :laugher
Blackbeard Flag to buy Blackbeard flag.


----------



## vtsailguy

AlaskaMC said:


> Found one in Italy. Get Paulo to send it. :laugher
> Blackbeard Flag to buy Blackbeard flag.


9.8x14.8 ft

Nice!


----------



## Capt Len

As a long time charter skipper I Have determined that the very catchy tune "Look at me, I'm on a boat' goes well with 'Who let the dogs out' and Wiggle wiggle. All under the skull and x bones while drunks pee on the deck. There's lame and then there's Lame. When this happens on Thane I just head to the nearest dock for disem'bark'ing (letting the dogs out) Can be expensive but dam it feels good.


----------



## deltaten

Hmmmm???
Sounds sorta like 'telegraphing yer punch' ta me!
If I'm gonna commit acts of piracy; I sure as heck don;t wanna let my target get a whiff/


----------



## rgscpat

How "lame" are some of these "pirate" flags?



















Ah, why not, here's one more that send me off in terrior:


----------



## Kielanders

What about a Hello Kitty pirate flag?


----------



## blt2ski

My picture next to my handle name is MY pirate flag! I have one, 18x24m even won me a bottle of Rum for the best original design. IE NOT a copy of someone elses flag, but how I would make one up if I were to have my own flag. So, we took Mr Winston, and made him into a pirate, and put it on a black background flag! Altho Red might work, but his killing of the victim will take a while with his BIT tongue!

Marty


----------



## xymotic

radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG


Just slightly less lame than a confederate flag IMO.


----------



## rgscpat

Kielanders said:


> What about a Hello Kitty pirate flag?


You bet that would strike terror throughout the anchorage:


----------



## SVAuspicious

vtsailguy said:


> 1. Sailing on us waters, we are technically British privateers


Actually not. Your UK flag on the starboard hoist is in the courtesy position. That would be appropriate if in UK waters on a non-UK-flagged boat.

So the UK flag is incorrect and the pirate flag is lame.

_Remember the Quest_


----------



## vtsailguy

SVAuspicious said:


> Actually not. Your UK flag on the starboard hoist is in the courtesy position. That would be appropriate if in UK waters on a non-UK-flagged boat.
> 
> So the UK flag is incorrect and the pirate flag is lame.
> 
> _Remember the Quest_


You are quite correct. I have a real Royal Navy ensign that goes on my stern. Real in there sense, it's not some cheap poly knock off but obtained properly through a Royal Navy ships store.

When racing though, I don't fly it because it isn't visible enough, so I hoist. Both should be on the back stay.

Sounds like you are jealous of the Blackbeard flag Dave, can I get you one? Two?

Three boys, 200 sq ft of fiberglass, tropical beaches
www.sailingwithkids.net


----------



## Multihullgirl

For your consideration, I post:
Flag and Etiquette Committee


----------



## svHyLyte

radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG


Short of a Tampa Bay Buccaneers flag during football season or a couple of kid's sailing around an anchorage in a dinghy wearing eye patches and yelling Yo Ho Ho on Halloween, I think a Skull'n Cross Bones flag would really be pretty lame.


----------



## abrahamx

In my opinion hell yea it is lame. Thats like flying a al Qaeda flag or a nazi flag, or even a confederate flag. You asked.


----------



## VallelyJ

Yep, it's lame. Kind of like fake stubble.


----------



## SVAuspicious

vtsailguy said:


> You are quite correct. I have a real Royal Navy ensign that goes on my stern. Real in there sense, it's not some cheap poly knock off but obtained properly through a Royal Navy ships store.
> 
> When racing though, I don't fly it because it isn't visible enough, so I hoist. Both should be on the back stay.
> 
> Sounds like you are jealous of the Blackbeard flag Dave, can I get you one? Two?


Well let's see ...

Are you a US boat or a UK boat? Flags go with the boat, not the crew. The ensign goes on the transom or backstay. Moving your ensign to the starboard hoist is incorrect. Flying the ensign of a country other than that of the boat is wrong and although in most countries you won't get grief it is amateurish.

When racing you DON'T fly any ensign. Battle flags are usually flown in the foretriangle before the start and after the finish. If you have a tiny battle flag you could certainly fly it on a flag halyard.

If you are racing you generally don't want the windage of extra flags from start to finish. Don't get me started on toothbrushes. *grin* If you don't understand the toothbrush reference you aren't racing.

As far as jealousy is concerned, let me Google that for you.

_Remember the Quest_


----------



## christian.hess

some countries WONT let you fly the flag too


----------



## drsutton

some people will do anything contract attention. Even negative attention.


----------



## rgscpat

For racing sailors, the prohibition on extraneous flags is a US Sailing Prescription, so it may not apply in non-US jurisdictions. It can be changed via Sailing Instructions if an organizing authority wishes to allow display of national ensigns or other flags.

RRS 56 (US): US Sailing prescribes that a boat shall not display flags except for signaling. A boat shall not be penalized for breaking this rule without prior warning and opportunity to make correction.

ISAF (International Sailing Federation) does not have this prescription.

Yachting Australia does not have this prescription. (Their RRS 56 Rx is about crew eligibility, requiring YA membership for some competitors.)

This prescription also does not appear in the list of Royal Yachting Association prescriptions. 

Example of an SI that modifies the ban on extraneous flags to allow for national ensigns or club burgees to be flown, but which does not encourage novelty flags: "An ensign or burgee may be flown by a competing boat. This modifies rule 56 (flags)."


----------



## SVAuspicious

rgscpat said:


> For racing sailors, the prohibition on extraneous flags is a US Sailing Prescription, so it may not apply in non-US jurisdictions. It can be changed via Sailing Instructions if an organizing authority wishes to allow display of national ensigns or other flags.


Agreed. My point was that the windage is unnecessary and sometimes seconds do matter.


----------



## drsutton

It is interesting to me that most of the responses are legalistic and do not address whether flying such a flag is in good taste.


----------



## Multihullgirl

drsutton said:


> It is interesting to me that most of the responses are legalistic and do not address whether flying such a flag is in good taste.


You can't legislate morality, either...


----------



## rgscpat

Well, if you're so worried about windage and weight... Of course, on many boats the best way to reduce windage might be to put some of the more generously girthed crew on a diet, and kit them out in form-fitting foulies and inflatables. Especially with the afterguard, you really have to control their caloric intake and limit their time in the beer tent.
And a tiller might have less windage and weight than a wheel, and leading halyards into fairings might help, too. Of course, the halyards and sheet ends that don't get handled would be stripped to the inner core, and you'd use fiber shackles or knots rather than metal. 
The auxiliary should be sized to be the minimum weight engine that will power the boat at whatever fraction of hull speed might be required by the class association, and equipped with a folding or variable pitch prop. 
Before leaving the harbor, new crew should be detailed to remove any moisture from the bilge that the pump might have missed.
Old foam cushions and mattresses may have retained some moisture, so they should be replaced, preferably with a lighter foam of equivalent stiffness. (This is for classes that require that cushions be left on board; if not, and racing offshore, pipe berths are of course de rigueur.) When not racing, keep the cushions or mattresses ashore in a de-humidified environment; they can then be brought into the boat in sealed vacuum-packed bags to be opened and deployed at the last convenient moment.
If spaces in the ends of the boat aren't needed for sail or crew stowage, you might also look at filling them with inflated helium balloons to see if that might reduce your draft just a tiny bit. I don't know what the rules implications would be of putting tethered helium balloons up for long downwind runs offshore. 
Real racing boats don't have useless junk like a stereo system, which could be replaced with an iPOD or similar lightweight device.
For shorter, lighter-air races, replace standard-weight battens with lighter, thinner battens to get just the right sail shape for lighter conditions. 
For offshore racers with life raft canisters on deck, perhaps the canisters could get speed fairings or be designed more aerodynamically. (A minimum-weight valise raft is better; it can be stowed below, but never in the ends of the boat.)
In light air, crew are instructed to sneeze or fart astern and to leeward. 
Also, it's not necessary to cut the toothbrushes way short if you go with toothbrushes with graphite bodies; modern engineering can really cut down on parasitic toothbrush weight. 

But are many people who have pirate and novelty flags on their boat really quite that much into racing? It seems that the real-world pirates who want to go fast prefer 250-hp outboards and the closest thing to a flag those guys have are their Kalashnikovs and grenade launchers. They don't need no steeenkeeen flags.


----------



## rgscpat

_De gustibus not et disputandum..._

Matters of taste are blatantly obvious to everyone. 
It just isn't the same obvious.

"Egotist, n. A person of low taste, more interested in himself than in me." 
― Ambrose Bierce, The Unabridged Devil's Dictionary

"Fools have a habit of believing that everything written by a famous author is admirable. For my part I read only to please myself and like only what suits my taste." 
― Voltaire, Candide

"Art and life are subjective. Not everybody's gonna dig what I dig, but I reserve the right to dig it." 
― Whoopi Goldberg

"The more obscure our tastes, the greater the proof of our genius." 
― Jennifer Donnelly, Revolution

"After you, it's all cheap tequila." 
― Jacqueline Carey, Santa Olivia


----------



## weinie

rgscpat said:


> Well, if you're so worried about windage and weight... Of course, on many boats the best way to reduce windage might be to put some of the more generously girthed crew on a diet, and kit them out in form-fitting foulies and inflatables. Especially with the afterguard, you really have to control their caloric intake and limit their time in the beer tent.
> And a tiller might have less windage and weight than a wheel, and leading halyards into fairings might help, too. Of course, the halyards and sheet ends that don't get handled would be stripped to the inner core, and you'd use fiber shackles or knots rather than metal.
> The auxiliary should be sized to be the minimum weight engine that will power the boat at whatever fraction of hull speed might be required by the class association, and equipped with a folding or variable pitch prop.
> Before leaving the harbor, new crew should be detailed to remove any moisture from the bilge that the pump might have missed.
> Old foam cushions and mattresses may have retained some moisture, so they should be replaced, preferably with a lighter foam of equivalent stiffness. (This is for classes that require that cushions be left on board; if not, and racing offshore, pipe berths are of course de rigueur.) When not racing, keep the cushions or mattresses ashore in a de-humidified environment; they can then be brought into the boat in sealed vacuum-packed bags to be opened and deployed at the last convenient moment.
> If spaces in the ends of the boat aren't needed for sail or crew stowage, you might also look at filling them with inflated helium balloons to see if that might reduce your draft just a tiny bit. I don't know what the rules implications would be of putting tethered helium balloons up for long downwind runs offshore.
> Real racing boats don't have useless junk like a stereo system, which could be replaced with an iPOD or similar lightweight device.
> For shorter, lighter-air races, replace standard-weight battens with lighter, thinner battens to get just the right sail shape for lighter conditions.
> For offshore racers with life raft canisters on deck, perhaps the canisters could get speed fairings or be designed more aerodynamically. (A minimum-weight valise raft is better; it can be stowed below, but never in the ends of the boat.)
> In light air, crew are instructed to sneeze or fart astern and to leeward.
> Also, it's not necessary to cut the toothbrushes way short if you go with toothbrushes with graphite bodies; modern engineering can really cut down on parasitic toothbrush weight.
> 
> But are many people who have pirate and novelty flags on their boat really quite that much into racing? It seems that the real-world pirates who want to go fast prefer 250-hp outboards and the closest thing to a flag those guys have are their Kalashnikovs and grenade launchers. They don't need no steeenkeeen flags.


so then I'm okay with this one, right?


----------



## rgscpat

You're fine with the cocktail flag (but maybe get one made out of 0.5 oz. spinnaker cloth and have a beer flag for the beer crowd) if you follow the doctor's advice...

Low-Calorie Cocktails

" Not only do cocktails boost calories, they also have a powerful impact on your inhibitions.

"Your resolve can be really strong when you are sober, but after a few drinks, you may find yourself mindlessly overeating the nuts, another slice of pizza, or whatever food is within striking distance," says Christine Gerbstadt, RD. Drinking alcohol can also make you feel hungrier because alcohol can lower blood sugar. "


----------



## chip

Flags are serious business. They have meanings, and we ignore those meanings at own our peril. To that end, I have prepared this convenient listing of what signal flags mean, both traditionally and to the modern boater:

Signal Flags | Sailing Fortuitous


----------



## poopdeckpappy

chip said:


> Flags are serious business. They have meanings, and we ignore those meanings at own our peril. To that end, I have prepared this convenient listing of what signal flags mean, both traditionally and to the modern boater:
> 
> Signal Flags | Sailing Fortuitous


Funny stuff


----------



## Multihullgirl

OK, you experts at signal flags, what does the below flag sequence mean?


----------



## Minnesail

Multihullgirl said:


> OK, you experts at signal flags, what does the below flag sequence mean?


I think it means the kids got into the flag box again.


----------



## poopdeckpappy

You have a prop wrap and you have 2 divers in the water [email protected] 8 foot or you're getting your hull cleaned

That was my best WAG


----------



## chip

AD28 = Splice the Main Brace


----------



## Lubrdink

Another flag pic. This one the 173rd Airborne Bgde honoring the namesake of my boat. Course my neighbor one slip over is S/V Pirate and you guessed it-flies the Jolly Roger.He has a small cannon and pistols and is old and not afraid to die. So I let him fly it.


----------



## Multihullgirl

Chip gets it.


----------



## poopdeckpappy

Well, I was close


----------



## Multihullgirl

Actually although AD28 is actually an order to other boats to 'splice the mainbrace,' generally when it's flown in a pleasure boat anchorage, it's an invitation to cocktails aboard, I'm told...


----------



## ebs001

Okay, I give up. Where does AD28 meaning "splice the mainbrace" come from?


----------



## captain jack

bljones said:


> Then maybe somebody should have told these guys:
> Seen at Reagan's funeral:


gold fringe=military flag, as per is post. president=commander and chief of the military
Reagan was afforded full respect as the commander and chief of the military, as all president's are. so, that just fits the post.


----------



## captain jack

i think you guys are way too serious. if he wants to fly the jolly roger, that's cool. i've actually been thinking about getting one for my 9' sailing dinghy. 

i can think of a number of reasons that are pretty cool reasons. here is my list ( not in any particular order ):

1) you like pirate related things
2) you are a re-enactor
3) you listen to Jimmy Buffet
4) you are a rebel against the sttus quo and the rules of society
5) you just think death's heads are cool
6) you are a bad ***
7) you think it's funny and fly it with tongue in cheek intentions
8) you were a big fan of the movie, "ice pirates"
9) your beard is on fire
10) you are death and your sailboat is your vacation home
11) you just happen to want to fly a pirate flag
12) you want to thunb your nose at people that say it's lame for you to fly one


prerequisites for flying the jolly roger:

1) you have the audacity and boldness to fly one without concerning yourself with what others thing about it.


----------



## xymotic

captain jack said:


> i think you guys are way too serious. if he wants to fly the jolly roger, that's cool. i've actually been thinking about getting one for my 9' sailing dinghy.
> 
> i can think of a number of reasons that are pretty cool reasons. here is my list ( not in any particular order ):
> 
> 1) you like pirate related things
> 2) you are a re-enactor
> 3) you listen to Jimmy Buffet
> 4) you are a rebel against the sttus quo and the rules of society
> 5) you just think death's heads are cool
> 6) you are a bad ***
> 7) you think it's funny and fly it with tongue in cheek intentions
> 8) you were a big fan of the movie, "ice pirates"
> 9) your beard is on fire
> 10) you are death and your sailboat is your vacation home
> 11) you just happen to want to fly a pirate flag
> 12) you want to thunb your nose at people that say it's lame for you to fly one
> 
> prerequisites for flying the jolly roger:
> 
> 1) you have the audacity and boldness to fly one without concerning yourself with what others thing about it.


The other day it was raining pretty hard, and the temp dipped to the 40's. Generally crappy weather.

I suited up in my rain gear and MX boots and rode my dirt bike to a local sports bar. I didn't think this was an exceptionally hard-core move on my part, I ride my motorcycle every day because I like my motorcycle.

When I walked into the bar, It was full of 'bad ass' bikers having their club meeting. It was funny, that basically all conversation stopped and they just sorta glared at me when I walked in. Which surprised me because when I arrived I noted that there were *no* motorcycles in the parking lot except mine.

Every one of them had an immaculate leather vest with a bunch of clever patches flags etc. (including lots of pirate and confederate regalia) and one piece of plummage that was consistantly and prominantly displayed was a large: "respect is not given, it has to be earned"

Which I thought was pretty ironic. I give respect freely, my contept has to be earned, and advertising how 'bad-ass' you think you are... by definition is not at all a 'bold' thing to do.

Am I judgemental of a bunch of people riding around on $40k motorcycles (only on nice days) wearing dozens of cheap chinese made confederate flags boasting of how bad ass and individual they are? yup.


----------



## rgscpat

So, if flying a pirate flag is for some people an inexpensive, easily do-able way of being able to advertise oneself as slightly rebellious and daring, but without requiring a huge amount of courage or commitment, then how might a really daring, truly rebellious sailor display a message of "I'm really different and I'm the real bad*ss!". A Disney Princess banner? A flag making fun of FEMA and homeland security? A flag promoting men's hair gel?


----------



## rgscpat

So, if flying a pirate flag is an easy, safe, low-commitment way to advertise oneself as slightly daring and unconventional, what would someone truly rebellious do to display "I'm really different and a real bad*ss!". A Barbie Princess Banner? Something making fun of FEMA or homeland security? A flag promoting a men's hair gel?


----------



## unimacs

I think a few of you are missing the boat (so to speak) on pirate flags. What is it about the mythical pirates and pirate flags that kids find interesting, entertaining or intriguing?


Love of the water/sea?
Thirst for adventure?
Quest for riches (but maybe not the material kind) ?
Not having to live under so many rules and constraints?
Unapologetically acting in our own self interest?
Not giving a crap about personal hygiene? 

I'll submit that just because we are adults doesn't mean that we don't find any of that appealing anymore. At least I hope that we do.

Whether you're spending a few hours sailing or a few years, it does provide respite from the daily grind. I can see how hoisting the Jolly Roger is just another way of saying: "I'm on my boat now. I'm the skipper. I make the rules and I'd like to have a little fun."


----------



## desert rat

Ever since this thread began I have been restraining myself. Pirate flag; why not just
fly a white flag and see if that attracts unwanted attention. The anarchist flag.


----------



## poopdeckpappy

xymotic said:


> The other day it was raining pretty hard, and the temp dipped to the 40's. Generally crappy weather.
> 
> I suited up in my rain gear and MX boots and rode my dirt bike to a local sports bar. I didn't think this was an exceptionally hard-core move on my part, I ride my motorcycle every day because I like my motorcycle.
> 
> When I walked into the bar, It was full of 'bad ass' bikers having their club meeting. It was funny, that basically all conversation stopped and they just sorta glared at me when I walked in. Which surprised me because when I arrived I noted that there were *no* motorcycles in the parking lot except mine.
> 
> Every one of them had an immaculate leather vest with a bunch of clever patches flags etc. (including lots of pirate and confederate regalia) and one piece of plummage that was consistantly and prominantly displayed was a large: "respect is not given, it has to be earned"
> 
> Which I thought was pretty ironic. I give respect freely, my contept has to be earned, and advertising how 'bad-ass' you think you are... by definition is not at all a 'bold' thing to do.
> 
> Am I judgemental of a bunch of people riding around on $40k motorcycles (only on nice days) wearing dozens of cheap chinese made confederate flags boasting of how bad ass and individual they are? yup.


Can't tell ya how many times we have gone into the local hangout after a blast through the mountains in rain or snow to see it filled with the colors of one club or another.

We all rode KTM 520, 525's so the orange & black worked to our favor, not to mention the mud we tracked in or the direction we came from.

Days like that you saw lots of trucks in the lot but, no bikes but ours


----------



## SVAuspicious

rgscpat said:


> So, if flying a pirate flag is for some people an inexpensive, easily do-able way of being able to advertise oneself as slightly rebellious and daring, but without requiring a huge amount of courage or commitment, then how might a really daring, truly rebellious sailor display a message of "I'm really different and I'm the real bad*ss!". A Disney Princess banner? A flag making fun of FEMA and homeland security? A flag promoting men's hair gel?


How about not advertising? Just go sailing without feeling the need to associate oneself with murderers, rapists, and other criminals?

To my mind enjoying movies like Pirates of the Caribbean is different from associating with a culture that stretches over hundreds of years of truly horrific behavior.


----------



## captain jack

xymotic said:


> The other day it was raining pretty hard, and the temp dipped to the 40's. Generally crappy weather.
> 
> I suited up in my rain gear and MX boots and rode my dirt bike to a local sports bar. I didn't think this was an exceptionally hard-core move on my part, I ride my motorcycle every day because I like my motorcycle.
> 
> When I walked into the bar, It was full of 'bad ass' bikers having their club meeting. It was funny, that basically all conversation stopped and they just sorta glared at me when I walked in. Which surprised me because when I arrived I noted that there were *no* motorcycles in the parking lot except mine.
> 
> Every one of them had an immaculate leather vest with a bunch of clever patches flags etc. (including lots of pirate and confederate regalia) and one piece of plummage that was consistantly and prominantly displayed was a large: "respect is not given, it has to be earned"
> 
> Which I thought was pretty ironic. I give respect freely, my contept has to be earned, and advertising how 'bad-ass' you think you are... by definition is not at all a 'bold' thing to do.
> 
> Am I judgemental of a bunch of people riding around on $40k motorcycles (only on nice days) wearing dozens of cheap chinese made confederate flags boasting of how bad ass and individual they are? yup.


i was being kind of tongue in cheek with that list, actually.

it's funny. i ride too. like you, i ride all weather. a number of years ago, i had to choose between a car and my bike ( ok more than a number of years ago. lol. i wasn't much over the legal drinking age and still on my first bike ). i belonged to a motorcycle rights group and i showed up for every meeting, crappy weather not stopping me. all the harley dudes were just blown away. here was this young dude on a little 250 honda rebel and had more balls than them. you never saw a harley there in bad weather. so, i do understand your point.

but, like i said, ecept for that last one ( if you don't have the courage to decide your own course without seeking the approval of others....), i was not making an attempt at a serious list. the truly bad ***ed do not have to go around telling everyone how bad ***ed they are.


----------



## captain jack

SVAuspicious said:


> How about not advertising? Just go sailing without feeling the need to associate oneself with murderers, rapists, and other criminals?
> 
> To my mind enjoying movies like Pirates of the Caribbean is different from associating with a culture that stretches over hundreds of years of truly horrific behavior.


i respect your feelings on it. but you have to think, just how much truly horrific behavior has been perpetrated by accepted groups, like all of our countries and all of the ancestors of all humans, and especially the church? if that is the reason to avoid a symbol like the plague, everyone should burn their national flags, cultural symbols, and their crucifixes. humans have done a lot of nasty crap over the centuries. pirates? yeah, there was some nasty stuff, too. but is it worse than what has been done by accepted groups? history is all in your perspective. some might say, correctly, that pirates were instrumental in the American revolution. some might also point out, also correctly, that, amongst themselves, they were the first group, in their time, to practice democracy. there is nothing and no one that is all bad or all good, unless you eat people's brains for fun. lol.


----------



## mikel1

Captain jack and Unimacs make good points . . . lighten up about the jolly roger, there are a lot more "lame" things out there, like ass cracks, piercings & tats in questionable locations . . . . etc. a list of "lame" things in off topic might be fun . . .


----------



## redline

Personally (who the heck else would I be speaking for, anyway?), I think flying a Pirate flag is fine... if you have young kids aboard. 

Our pirate flag is pink, the skull is grinning, with hearts for the eyeholes and ends of the bones, and says "Pirate Princess". And it only flies while the Princess is aboard (hoisting and dousing it is one of her (few) shipboard duties... she just turned seven.


----------



## dvuyxx

My 5 and 8 year old boys typically request to raise our little 10" Jolly Roger. It's part of the experience. Their notion of pirates is not historical. It's the one of swashbuckling fun pirates of Hollywood and books.


----------



## titustiger27

I don't fly a jolly rogers because I am afraid a real pirate would keelhaul me... 

Just as I keep waiting for a real patriot to come and whack my neighbor in the head for flying a "Don't Tread On Me" flag...

not being a wuss doesn't make you un-lame though


----------



## Group9

Allanbc said:


> Flying the Jolly Roger is OK only if you have a large crew of scantily clad busty wenches.


And, an eye patch!


----------



## rgscpat

Would a couple of cover-less primary genoa sheet winches in need of some lubrication count? I do need to go and lube and polish those winches while I'm thinking about it.


----------



## Steve in Idaho

Okay - against my better judgement, I will say _this_ is what's lame. Supposed adults, not for the amusement of children, flying a flag (any flag, anywhere) that somehow associates the flyer with any group they are not actually a part of, is lame. That includes football team logos, cowboy hats, gang colors or tats, and superhero costumes.

Just my take on it - but I have been described (probably accurately) as an odd duck.

But go ahead. Be lame if you like it. Don't hide who you (think) you are.


----------



## PCP

unimacs said:


> I think a few of you are missing the boat (so to speak) on pirate flags. What is it about the mythical pirates and pirate flags that kids find interesting, entertaining or intriguing?
> 
> 
> Love of the water/sea?
> Thirst for adventure?
> Quest for riches (but maybe not the material kind) ?
> Not having to live under so many rules and constraints?
> Unapologetically acting in our own self interest?
> Not giving a crap about personal hygiene?
> 
> I'll submit that just because we are adults doesn't mean that we don't find any of that appealing anymore. At least I hope that we do.
> 
> Whether you're spending a few hours sailing or a few years, it does provide respite from the daily grind. I can see how hoisting the Jolly Roger is just another way of saying: "I'm on my boat now. I'm the skipper. I make the rules and I'd like to have a little fun."


Pirates in Somalia are not different than Pirates in the old days. They are savage, deadly and don't give a crap about life, other than their own. Sure they are free and lead an adventurous live, don't have rules neither constraints, they are in a quest for money and their personal hygiene is probably very low.

I never understood why someone decent wants to have some relation with this "ideal" trough a banner or any other way.



rgscpat said:


> So, if flying a pirate flag is an easy, safe, low-commitment way to advertise oneself as slightly daring and unconventional, what would someone truly rebellious do to display "I'm really different and a real bad*ss!". A Barbie Princess Banner? Something making fun of FEMA or homeland security? A flag promoting a men's hair gel?


Daring and unconventional? I prefer not to say in what I think of those that have that kind of banner hoisted in their boats but I would say that I see it no differently then the promotion of criminals in many movies and computer games: Yes for sure, they are bad asses, they don't respect property nor human live and they are free (till they are caught) but I never understood why so many see them like heroes, specially kids. Nothing good can come from it, only more bad asses....I don't like bad asses, nor pirates.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## titustiger27

Steve in Idaho said:


> Okay - against my better judgement, I will say _this_ is what's lame. Supposed adults, not for the amusement of children, flying a flag (any flag, anywhere) that somehow associates the flyer with any group they are not actually a part of, is lame. That includes football team logos, cowboy hats, gang colors or tats, and superhero costumes.
> 
> Just my take on it - but I have been described (probably accurately) as an odd duck.
> 
> But go ahead. Be lame if you like it. Don't hide who you (think) you are.


If I put a flag on my little dinghy (boat) to appease my inner child. is my inner child lame or the outer adult that allows this


----------



## MarkofSeaLife

It can also be a cultural thing... Very American.
Last year about this time i was in St Augustine, Florida and they had a full weekend Pirate festival where people from other areas came to town dressed im amazing pirate costumes. It was great fun for them and a good weekend for all.

But having the flag on the boat at any other time is... Ummmmm... Lame.

I do understand about the kids... If it stops them wearing a Batman suit on the boat then a pirate flag is fine... Or you could just make them walk the plank.

😊


----------



## Steve in Idaho

titustiger27 said:


> If I put a flag on my little dinghy (boat) to appease my inner child. is my inner child lame or the outer adult that allows this


Good question. I am not the one to answer it though, since I don't believe in appeasing children. Amusing them? Now, that's different.


----------



## SVAuspicious

Steve in Idaho said:


> Okay - against my better judgement, I will say _this_ is what's lame. Supposed adults, not for the amusement of children, flying a flag (any flag, anywhere) that somehow associates the flyer with any group they are not actually a part of, is lame. That includes football team logos, cowboy hats, gang colors or tats, and superhero costumes.


Bravo.

But I think it means I shouldn't wear my "Bazinga" t-shirt. *grin*


----------



## poopdeckpappy

MarkofSeaLife said:


> It can also be a cultural thing... Very American.
> Last year about this time i was in St Augustine, Florida and they had a full weekend Pirate festival where people from other areas came to town dressed im amazing pirate costumes. It was great fun for them and a good weekend for all.
> 
> But having the flag on the boat at any other time is... Ummmmm... Lame.
> 
> I do understand about the kids... If it stops them wearing a Batman suit on the boat then a pirate flag is fine... Or you could just make them walk the plank.
> 
> &#55357;&#56842;


This begs the question of, how many here who think flying a pirate flag is lame has had a fun time at a pirate festival or avoid a good time at a pirate festival because it pirate related?

That would include most Tall ship festival I've seen

Ya can't bash one while enjoying the other


----------



## titustiger27

Steve in Idaho said:


> Good question. I am not the one to answer it though, since I don't believe in appeasing children. Amusing them? Now, that's different.


yes, appeasing is easy...now where did I put my pirate clown suit.

I said LAFF!!!


----------



## pcwallace

I just found out that it frowned upon by the Mexican Navy. They will be sure to stop you and board you if you are flying a pirate flag.


----------



## Group9

MarkofSeaLife said:


> It can also be a cultural thing... Very American.
> Last year about this time i was in St Augustine, Florida and they had a full weekend Pirate festival where people from other areas came to town dressed im amazing pirate costumes. It was great fun for them and a good weekend for all.
> 
> But having the flag on the boat at any other time is... Ummmmm... Lame.
> 
> I do understand about the kids... If it stops them wearing a Batman suit on the boat then a pirate flag is fine... Or you could just make them walk the plank.
> 
> 😊


Because American pirates were colorful! I actually live about six blocks from Jean Lafitte's last residence (after he was supposed to have been hung in Cuba). He had lived there earlier, for sure, about a mile farther away.

Kind of neat to drive by either location and think about it.


----------



## Minnesail

MarkofSeaLife said:


> It can also be a cultural thing... Very American.
> Last year about this time i was in St Augustine, Florida and they had a full weekend Pirate festival where people from other areas came to town dressed im amazing pirate costumes. It was great fun for them and a good weekend for all.


This makes sense. Every year we have a giant zombie festival where a couple tens of thousands of people dress up in very imaginative zombie costumes and stumble around drinking and listening to live music.

It's great fun, but I don't actually want to be or meet a real zombie, and I don't dress that way the rest of the year.


----------



## 06HarleyUltra

American coastal or lakes...sure. Fly it proud. 
International or foreign ports?? Not a chance


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## captain jack

yeah. you have to be aware of legal issues.


----------



## titustiger27

I lean to the side that it is lame.

Assuming it is lame, then is wearing a 'captain's hat' or a bandana with crossbones on it also lame?


----------



## PCP

06HarleyUltra said:


> American coastal or lakes...sure. Fly it proud.
> ..


You proudly identify yourself with pirates? That should be an American thing I don't get it

Regards

Paulo


----------



## bobnpaula

yes, extremely lame. 'nuff said.


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> I lean to the side that it is lame.
> 
> Assuming it is lame, then is wearing a 'captain's hat' or a bandana with crossbones on it also lame?


that's exactly it. who is to say what's lame? i would never have asked the question, in the first place. i, personally, don't care what others think. if i wanted to fly a jolly roger, i would. if you start letting others tell you what is lame, you won't do anything.

i think everyone is just taking it too seriously.


----------



## PCP

titustiger27 said:


> ...
> Assuming it is lame, then is wearing a 'captain's hat' or a bandana with crossbones on it also lame?


That is the same thing. When you wear something with a symbol or fly a banner that means that you identify yourself with what that symbol represents. you can fly a banner of sailnet on your boat, some do that, from your sail club, wear a a polo with the brand of your boat, or even the name, all things you probably identify yourself with, but a pirate symbol? Are you sure?

Regards

Paulo


----------



## captain jack

PCP said:


> You proudly identify yourself with pirates? That should be an American thing I don't get it
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


yes sir. it is an American thing. Americans view pirates as rebels. rebels against the government, against the rich, against rules, and against the status quo. Americans identify with rebels. plus, pirates symbolize freedom from the rules of society; rules we frequently see as oppressive. and then there is the element of adventure. sailors as fishermen or cargo and people transporters might be responsible, respectable, honest, and necessary things ( in their time ) but they aren't any more exciting than most of our daily jobs; jobs which most people are not completely happy with because few actually have careers they love. most have the jobs that they do because they pay the bills, not because they have a passion for those jobs. the pirate life, or at least the idea of it, represents excitement, adventure, and a freedom from the hum drum life that most are stuck living. it is a very American viewpoint, i suppose. i had not considered that, in other countries, people might not see it that way, too.


----------



## PCP

captain jack said:


> yes sir. it is an American thing. Americans view pirates as rebels. rebels against the government, against the rich, against rules, and against the status quo. Americans identify with rebels. plus, pirates symbolize freedom from the rules of society; rules we frequently see as oppressive. and then there is the element of adventure. sailors as fishermen or cargo and people transporters might be responsible, respectable, honest, and necessary things ( in their time ) but they aren't any more exciting than most of our daily jobs; jobs which most people are not completely happy with because few actually have careers they love. most have the jobs that they do because they pay the bills, not because they have a passion for those jobs. the pirate life, or at least the idea of it, represents excitement, adventure, and a freedom from the hum drum life that most are stuck living. it is a very American viewpoint, i suppose. i had not considered that, in other countries, people might not see it that way, too.


Well, long live Piracy then, but only in American waters please

Regards

Paulo


----------



## Lou452

Frist the good thing about the USA. We are all very different. This is a down side also ! We have a hard time getting any kind agreements . You can do most of what you wish if you cause no harm. Back to the yelling FIRE in the theater. If you read some of our history You understand the Fire and the freedom thing scales that are always moving. 
I think to much may be made of just a black flag I would most likely not even notice it. I did not think this thread would last. Now someone like the woman that lost her husband shot dead off a jet ski she might notice a black flag and it might be not so much fun and games. It all depends on what view you have had. Rape Pillage and Plunder is not a game. 
I would like half this response to what type and how to mount my compass.
Good day, Lou


----------



## titustiger27

Certainly... for me... when I see a pirate flag, I don't think the owners really identify or support a piratesque lifestyle. A real pirate that is going to cut your eyes out. I see those folks as whimsical as those who ride the Pirates of the Caribbean ride at disney and by the souvenir necklace. Though I suspect expect many of those (adults) on that ride are looking to score some booty.


----------



## Lou452

It is all just about the time and the place when and where, That's what makes it funny fun, or sad and dark. It is not he kind of jolly joke I would see somebody hoisting it up everyday but some can sing the same song all the time and it will sound sweet.
Good day, Lou


----------



## captain jack

Lou452 said:


> Frist the good thing about the USA. We are all very different. This is a down side also ! We have a hard time getting any kind agreements . You can do most of what you wish if you cause no harm. Back to the yelling FIRE in the theater. If you read some of our history You understand the Fire and the freedom thing scales that are always moving.
> I think to much may be made of just a black flag I would most likely not even notice it. I did not think this thread would last. Now someone like the woman that lost her husband shot dead off a jet ski she might notice a black flag and it might be not so much fun and games. It all depends on what view you have had. Rape Pillage and Plunder is not a game.
> I would like half this response to what type and how to mount my compass.
> Good day, Lou


well, look at it this way: only so many people have useful info to impart about compasses but everyone has an opinion.


----------



## theartfuldodger

I'm very surprised about all the comments about the pirate flag as I have always been of the understanding it means that there are kids on board and that is for two reason one to let other kids know there are kids about, as well it seems that bad people seem to leave boats with kids aboard alone.


----------



## Minnewaska

Ok, I will get in on this lame discussion.

The OP was asking whether others think this is lame. Therefore, that answers it. You have to care what others think for this to matter. If you do care, then yes, most will think its lame.

If you don't care, then do whatever you like. There is no harm to flying a novelty flag one clearly bought from West Marine.


----------



## unimacs

I don't think anyone flying a pirate flag in this day and age condones raping, stealing, or murder anymore than someone flying the Union Jack condones grabbing people off the streets and forcing them to serve on your boat. Or for that matter, I don't believe that very many people flying the Stars and Stripes would condone using your boat to transport slaves.

All these things happened under those banners on a regular basis a 2,3, or 4 hundred years ago.

Governments often employed the very same people to raid ships in wartime that they called pirates in peacetime for doing the exact same thing. Only in peacetime the pirates kept the loot instead of giving it to the governments.

In fact, the use of the skull and crossbones is not unusual in recent military history:











> Following the introduction of submarines in several navies, Admiral Sir Arthur Wilson, the Controller of the Royal Navy, stated that submarines were "underhand, unfair, and damned un-English", and that he would convince the British Admiralty to have the crews of enemy submarines captured during wartime hanged as pirates. In September 1914, the British submarine HMS E9 successfully torpedoed the German cruiser SMS Hela. Remembering Wilson's statements, commanding officer Max Horton instructed his sailors to manufacture a Jolly Roger, which was flown from the submarine as she entered port. This then became fairly common practice amongst British submarines.


My point is that it's very possible for people to appreciate some aspects of pirates and pirate life (romanticized for sure) while not embracing others. For example, having suffered abuses from naval officers while serving in the navy, pirates tended to form more democratic structures that avoided giving too much power to too few people. Not that pirate captains couldn't be brutal, but they knew at any time the crew could choose another captain.

And just to be clear, Somali pirates don't fly the Jolly Roger. I think it's safe to say that anyone who has the Jolly Roger on their boat is not in any way trying to demonstrate an allegiance to that group of people.


----------



## flyingwelshman

Not if you're a Knight Templar.


----------



## weinie

PCP said:


> You proudly identify yourself with pirates? That should be an American thing I don't get it
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


Guess you've never been to disney world.


----------



## PCP

weinie said:


> Guess you've never been to disney world.


No I have not but I don't see nothing wrong with kids identifying themselves with Mickey or Minnie. I cannot say the same with kids identifying themselves with pirates or other criminals as it happens not only with the pirate flag but also with many video games and movies, where criminals are the heroes.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## weinie

PCP said:


> No I have not but I don't see nothing wrong with kids identifying themselves with Mickey or Minnie. I cannot say the same with kids identifying themselves with pirates or other criminals as it happens not only with the pirate flag but also with many video games and movies, where criminals are the heroes.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


----------



## captain jack

flyingwelshman said:


> Not if you're a Knight Templar.


i don't get this reference. i had never heard that the knights templar ever flew or wore the jolly roger.


----------



## flyingwelshman

History of the Jolly Roger

A little 'secret society' stuff, but makes sense when you look at some of the masonic iconography:


----------



## Faster

There definitely seems to be a divide - ie North America vs Europe vis a vis 'pirates'. I remember a similar comment several years ago by another (former) Portuguese SNer decrying the romantic notion of 'pirates'..

The whole Disney/Hollywod pirate culture over the past hundred years paints them as charming rascals rather than flat out criminals (and don't forget Geena Davis as a pirate captain - forgotten the title)

I wonder if the British feel the same as continental Europe.. historically I think they 'sponsored' a few 'pirates' as long as they attacked the enemy..


----------



## CaptFoolhardy

unimacs said:


> And just to be clear, Somali pirates don't fly the Jolly Roger. I think it's safe to say that anyone who has the Jolly Roger on their boat is not in any way trying to demonstrate an allegiance to that group of people.


No, but modern piracy has served to remind us that "old pirates", Blackbeard, Jean Lafitte, etc., were no more than ruthless, blood thirsty criminals just like Somali pirates and not the hugely romanticized figures that we are accustomed to from literature and film.

To the original point, "Is it lame to fly the Jolly Roger?", yeah, kinda. I wouldn't do it but it doesn't bother me too much if others do. I know they are identifying more with Captain Jack Sparrow and Long John Silver than they are with Abduwali Muse.

That said, I enthusiastically participate in International Talk Like A Pirate Day. That's just fun.


----------



## flyingwelshman

Faster said:


> and don't forget Geena Davis as a pirate captain - forgotten the title)


Cutthroat Island










Shiver me timbers!


----------



## PCP

Faster said:


> There definitely seems to be a divide - ie North America vs Europe vis a vis 'pirates'. I remember a similar comment several years ago by another (former) Portuguese SNer decrying the romantic notion of 'pirates'..
> 
> The whole Disney/Hollywod pirate culture over the past hundred years paints them as charming rascals rather than flat out criminals (and don't forget Geena Davis as a pirate captain - forgotten the title)
> 
> I wonder if the British feel the same as continental Europe.. historically I think they 'sponsored' a few 'pirates' as long as they attacked the enemy..


That is not the same thing. Corsairs were not pirates, they fight for their country and attacked also enemy man of war. They had rules in what respect the treatment of the crews of the captured boats that were considered prisoners of war. Corsairs were independent fighters for their country and never used the Joly Rodger as a symbol.

England had some being the more famous Drake but by far the French had much more, they even had a city that was basically a Corsair city, Saint Malo.

Some of the more famous ones:

René Duguay-Trouin (saint-Malo), captured more than 300 merchant ships and 20 warships. Later we become Admiral of the Naval Armies of the King.

Robert Surcouf (Saint-Malo) Ship's boy when he was 13 years old and corsair captain at 22 :






Yes I would not mind to be associated with these guys memory and symbols but with Pirates?:

*Benito de Soto: "After killing some of the passengers and crew with cannon fire, de Soto murdered the captain and took possession of the ship.
Many of the captured crew were killed, while women passengers were raped before being locked in the hold with the rest of the survivors. De Soto then scuttled the ship,.."

Edward Low : John Hart, writing to the Council of Trade and Plantations in London from St. Kitts on March 25, 1724, described an attack on a Portuguese ship traveling from Brazil by the pirate Edward Low. After the ship's captain dropped a bag of gold into the sea to keep the pirate from taking it, "Low cut off the said Mster's lips and broiled them before his face, and afterwards murdered the whole crew being thirty-two persons." Hart obtained these details from Low's captured quartermaster, Nicholas Lewis.

Henry Morgan's crew: One contemporary report, quoted by Cordingly, says that "A woman there was by some set bare upon a baking stove and roasted, because she did not confess of money which she had only in their conceit...
Cordingly describes Henry Morgan's advance on the fortified Santiago Castle, in the Spanish port of San Geronimo. He used "several women and old men, and some friars and nuns dragged from the church" as human shields for his advancing men....
After Henry Morgan's men took Gibraltar, according to Exquemelin, his men tortured a Portuguese man. Four stakes were set into the ground, and the man was suspended between them by cords attached to his thumbs and big toes. As quoted in Cordingly, "Then they thrashed upon the cords with great sticks and all their strength, so that the body of this miserable man was ready to perish at every stroke, under the severity of those horrible pains. Not satisfied as yet with this cruel torture, they took a stone which weighed above 200 pound, and laid it upon his belly, as if they intended to press him to death. At which time they also kindled palm leaves, and applied the flame unto the face of this unfortunate Portuguese, burning with them the whole skin, beard and hair."

Montbars of Languedoc : was particularly gruesome. After cutting open the stomach of his victim, Montbars, nicknamed "the exterminator," extracted one end of his guts, nailed it to a post and then forced the man to dance to his death by beating his behind with a burning log.*



*From an eighteenth-century drawing: Captain Francis Spriggs' men force a captued Portuguese sailor to run around the ship's mast, prodded on with spears.*

I find of bad taste any association with pirates or pirate symbols as I find of bad taste and prejudicial to make children believe that there was anything positive in Piracy (or any other criminal activity) to the point of making a vile symbol their one.

PS- On the memories picture thread you can find some photos of Saint Malo and of a replica of the last Corsair sailingboat.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## flyingwelshman

PCP said:


> I find of bad taste any association with pirates or pirate symbols as I find of bad taste and prejudicial to make children believe that there was anything positive in Piracy (or any other criminal activity) to the point of making a vile symbol their one.


At risk of taking this thread into the realm of PRWG: another symbol - representing a group responsible for far more acts of barbarism than pirates - seems to be perfectly acceptable to some.


----------



## flyingwelshman

Something that no-one has addressed on this thread is this:

Is lamé pirate?










(I mean 'pirate' pirate, not 'butt' pirate.)


----------



## Minnewaska

Someone just told me it was lame to post on a forum everyday. I guess I'm better with lame that I thought.


----------



## PCP

flyingwelshman said:


> At risk of taking this thread into the realm of PRWG: another symbol - representing a group responsible for far more acts of barbarism than pirates - seems to be perfectly acceptable to some.


That image is the symbol of something, you mean torture? Or you mean religions? Torture is legal on the US on certain conditions and its the only civilized country where that happens, I mean to be legal.

Yes religions have some good things and some bad things when they fall on fundamentalism. Fundamentalism justifies everything. But no Christian or any member of any religion has as banner a death symbol like the pirate banner. The symbols for catholic refers to a cross, a fish and a lamb.

The torture wheel is no symbol that I recognize as referring to anything.

Regarding the image I don't know of any Catholic that does not see inquisition as a black period of Christianity and therefore no one identifies with it. They don't identify Catholicism with it the same way a British will not identify British Monarchy with the murderous and amoral behavior of Henry the VII.

Again the issue here is the contemporary identification of some with a death and terror symbol, the one used by pirates. Pirates still exist today and even if they don't use that symbol anymore they have a similar behavior.

I don't say that the ones that use a pirate banner are conscious with the meaning of that symbol, but the meaning exists and its association with Pirates is as clear as the association of Pirates with savagery and death. That's why the banner has a skull, clearly a death symbol.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## flyingwelshman

Response removed.


----------



## weinie

I am sensing an end to this thread.


----------



## flyingwelshman

weinie said:


> I am sensing an end to this thread.


I removed my response so as to not drag the thread down.

May have run its course anyway.


----------



## Minnesail

flyingwelshman said:


> Response removed.


Well that escalated quickly.

I was just going to ask what sort of anchor the Catholic Church used, and how much scope they put out.


----------



## flyingwelshman

Minnesail said:


> Well that escalated quickly.
> 
> I was just going to ask what sort of anchor the Catholic Church used, and how much scope they put out.












I think it needs a few more symbols.

I think nothing more than a 3:1 scope - I mean ya gotta have faith right?


----------



## boatpoker

26 pages of posts on such a lame topic:laugher


----------



## unimacs

PCP said:


> I don't say that the ones that use a pirate banner are conscious with the meaning of that symbol, but the meaning exists and its association with Pirates is as clear as the association of Pirates with savagery and death. That's why the banner has a skull, clearly a death symbol.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


I think what you're losing sight of is the fact that the meanings of symbols evolve. The original intent of the pirate flag (as I understand it) was to signal attack and to scare the crap out of the people on the other ship so that they would put up a minimal fight.

No one flies a pirate flag for that reason anymore.

Today (at least in the US) it's become, among other things, a symbol of rebellion against rules or a system that stifles rather than enables. It's also become a symbol of free spiritedness or mischievousness.

The sight of a pirate flag on a 30 foot sailboat isn't going to scare anybody.


----------



## GeorgeB

Apparently it scares Paulo. :laugher


----------



## PCP

GeorgeB said:


> Apparently it scares Paulo. :laugher


No, it does not scare me but I found it worse then lame. Putting mildly I would have no interest in knowing better someone that flies a Pirate's flag on his boat the same way I would not want to know better someone that plays loud music on an anchorage or someone that just put the anchor on top of mine.

It kind of defines you in a certain way as the other things do, not that they mean the same thing, but I don't like none of them. Maybe to some it would be the opposite and they just appreciate each other's company. Can you imagine a pirate fleet on an anchorage? I bet that would be good fun for some.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## GeorgeB

You must be a lot of fun at parties.


----------



## PCP

GeorgeB said:


> You must be a lot of fun at parties.


Not pirate parties for sure, except on carnival.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## flyingwelshman

PCP said:


> It kind of defines you in a certain way as the other things do, not that they mean the same thing, but I don't like none of them.


I avoid the pirate flagged boats too. Not out of concern for my safety, or because I believe that the flag-fliers support rapists and murderers.

I avoid the pirate flags because they usually denote children aboard.

Other flags I avoid:


----------



## GeorgeB

I don't know what the skunk, rabbits and cat means but the booze burgees mean "welcome aboard and I'm pouring" in yachting etiquette.


----------



## flyingwelshman

GeorgeB said:


> I don't know what the skunk, rabbits and cat means but the booze burgees mean "welcome aboard and I'm pouring" in yachting etiquette.


I think that the people who fly those kind of flags are the same ones most likely to wave at passing boaters!

I don't know about the people with the cutesy animal flags - I just know we wouldn't get along.


----------



## weinie

my new favorite


----------



## aeventyr60

weinie said:


> my new favorite


Could you send me one of those?


----------



## titustiger27

Are there other fun things you do on or with your sailboat that would also be considered lame

I am thinking of selling bumperstickers: "I would rather be sailing a boat with a pirate flag."


----------



## captain jack

flyingwelshman said:


> At risk of taking this thread into the realm of PRWG: another symbol - representing a group responsible for far more acts of barbarism than pirates - seems to be perfectly acceptable to some.


that would surely be the cross....and a great point.


----------



## aeventyr60

titustiger27 said:


> Are there other fun things you do on or with your sailboat that would also be considered lame?
> 
> Flying my spinnaker at night single handed while on passage, peeing over the side, not wearing a harness, using paper charts, listening to Jimmy buffet and having a few shots of Tequila while crossing the Equator. I could think of many more that some would surely consider lame...but then those folks are probably sitting in arm chair living quiet lives of desperation....


----------



## captain jack

PCP said:


> Regarding the image I don't know of any Catholic that does not see inquisition as a black period of Christianity and therefore no one identifies with it. They don't identify Catholicism with it the same way a British will not identify British Monarchy with the murderous and amoral behavior of Henry the VII.
> 
> Paulo


i would say that your example does not support your argument. christians do not identify their symbol with the attrocities performed in the name of their religion. ok. but isn't that just saying that they are chosing to overlook a rather huge part of their religion's history, in favor of a story book ideal of that religion?

and the brittish choosing to overlook the parts of their own monarchy that they find unacceptable is just as purposely blind to reality as the chritianity's perception of itself.

i don't see how either of these examples is any different than people not identifying the symbol of piracy with the horrors of piracy.

in all three cases, you have a group that is responsible for wrong action. and in all three cases, you have people who choose to idealize that 'bad' group by ignoring the wrong that it did. in fact, i'd think that the example of the cross is an example of an even greater deception. i don't think that any person that idealizes pirates would deny the terrible things they did. on the other hand, i have never known any seriously religious christian that would admit to the historical horrors of christian expansion and domination.

in the end, that's how humas look at history. look at all of our beloved idolized images: knights, pirates, the church, the pilgrims, cowboys, soldiers, vikings, romans, american indians, samurai, etc you will find that every last one of them is responsible for some seriously terrible behavior which is completely overlooked by the people who idolize them.

no humans exist, anywhere, that are completely innocent of wrong doing and history is told through the eyes of the victorious.


----------



## titustiger27

aeventyr60 said:


> titustiger27 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are there other fun things you do on or with your sailboat that would also be considered lame?
> 
> 
> 
> Flying my spinnaker at night single handed while on passage, peeing over the side, not wearing a harness, using paper charts, listening to Jimmy buffet and having a few shots of Tequila while crossing the Equator. I could think of many more that some would surely consider lame...but then those folks are probably sitting in arm chair living quiet lives of desperation....
Click to expand...

even us guys in the thralls of desperation sometimes have fun

would the example of the equator crossing be both changes in latitudes *and* attitudes?


----------



## aeventyr60

titustiger27 said:


> even us guys in the thralls of desperation sometimes have fun
> 
> would the example of the equator crossing be both changes in latitudes *and* attitudes?


Yes. Tropical Malaise has taken root.


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> even us guys in the thralls of desperation sometimes have fun
> 
> would the example of the equator crossing be both changes in latitudes *and* attitudes?


i would say that is a good example of the attitude that accompanies the flying of the jolly roger, on modern pleasure craft: light hearted, fun, adventurous, irreverant. not blood thirsty and evil.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> i would say that is a good example of the attitude that accompanies the flying of the jolly roger, on modern pleasure craft: light hearted, fun, adventurous, irreverant. not blood thirsty and evil.


when I see people finding flying a flag... any flag more than just mildly lame... I can't help but think how judgmental we are.

Even if you have heard it said, you know there is someone thinking somewhere : 'you spent how much on that anchor?'

I think everyone has a vice that they whimsically spend too much on... be it a bicycle, or three thousand shot glasses. ....something we whimsically enjoy too much... and fly our freak flag

Enjoying what you love and spending money on it, participating in it (maybe with a flag) is of course lame... but I say :

Release the lame, I'm having fun.


----------



## aeventyr60

captain jack said:


> i would say that is a good example of the attitude that accompanies the flying of the jolly roger, on modern pleasure craft: light hearted, fun, adventurous, irreverant. not blood thirsty and evil.


 Grasshopper, you very wise, now cast off the dock lines.


----------



## captain jack

aye aye cap'n :laugher


----------



## xymotic

There's nothing technically wrong with a swastica It's an ancient symbol with different meanings but you better believe you'd get a response flying one

To many Americans a confederate flag shows 'pride' and to me it's an incredibly offensive symbol of treason and slavery and "Lame" beyond belief

If you gotta put balls on your truck to tell the world what a powerful man you are it really tells us you're too stupid to realize we all think you're overcompensating


----------



## SVAuspicious

aeventyr60 said:


> titustiger27 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are there other fun things you do on or with your sailboat that would also be considered lame?
> 
> 
> 
> Flying my spinnaker at night single handed while on passage, peeing over the side, not wearing a harness, using paper charts, listening to Jimmy buffet and having a few shots of Tequila while crossing the Equator. I could think of many more that some would surely consider lame...but then those folks are probably sitting in arm chair living quiet lives of desperation....
Click to expand...

Spinnaker at night: yes

Peeing over the side: used to do, also used to aim at the cockpit drains, now I just use the head

Harness: I'm with Evans on this -- I use judgment to decide when it will help and when it is likely to be a problem. YMMV.

Paper charts: They make a dandy back up to electronics

Jimmy Buffet: On my playlist, but so are lots of other artists

Tequila: When I got my golden shellback we had champagne and Scotch (after we swam around the ship). Not sure Tequila would ever be my choice. YMMV again.

Armchair sailors: not my favorite stereotypical group.


----------



## Minnesail

captain jack said:


> look at all of our beloved idolized images: knights, pirates, the church, the pilgrims, cowboys, soldiers, vikings


No don't you go dragging the Vikings in to this!

They never hurt a fly, as long as you don't count the English, the Irish, the French, other Vikings, or the aboriginal populations of Scandinavia. Other that that, they never hurt anybody!

I'm going to get a flag with a horned helmet on it, just like my ancestors used to fly


----------



## PCP

captain jack said:


> i would say that your example does not support your argument. christians do not identify their symbol with the attrocities performed in the name of their religion. ok. but isn't that just saying that they are chosing to overlook a rather huge part of their religion's history, in favor of a story book ideal of that religion?
> 
> and the brittish choosing to overlook the parts of their own monarchy that they find unacceptable is just as purposely blind to reality as the chritianity's perception of itself.
> 
> i don't see how either of these examples is any different than people not identifying the symbol of piracy with the horrors of piracy.
> 
> ....


That's an easy one. There is a lot more good then bad regarding Christian religion (that's why there is 1.2 billion of Christians in the world) and a lot more good than bad regarding the British Monarchy (that's why they are nor a Republic) but there is incomparably more bad related with Piracy tan good and that's why they used to hang them on sight and still today they are shoot at without too much ceremony.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## Faster

Minnesail said:


> I'm going to get a flag with a horned helmet on it, just like my ancestors used to fly


You should go out and buy an Ericson


----------



## captain jack

Minnesail said:


> No don't you go dragging the Vikings in to this!
> 
> They never hurt a fly, as long as you don't count the English, the Irish, the French, other Vikings, or the aboriginal populations of Scandinavia. Other that that, they never hurt anybody!
> 
> I'm going to get a flag with a horned helmet on it, just like my ancestors used to fly


that's funny. one thing: vikings never wore horned helmets. that's just TV land. funny, none the less.


----------



## captain jack

PCP said:


> That's an easy one. There is a lot more good then bad regarding Christian religion (that's why there is 1.2 billion of Christians in the world)


i know movies like 'ben hur' show everyone converting because of miracles but history might hold a few other suggestions as to how christianity came into prominence. however...



PCP said:


> and a lot more good than bad regarding the British Monarchy (that's why they are nor a Republic) but there is incomparably more bad related with Piracy tan good and that's why they used to hang them on sight and still today they are shoot at without too much ceremony.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


i believe you miss the point entirely. no one is suggesting that actual pirates are nice people. although, historically, the line between privateer and pirate is a little blurry. it's all a light hearted tongue in cheek thing. i think you are really reading too much into it. not everyone is that serious about stuff.


----------



## PCP

Minnesail said:


> ...
> 
> I'm going to get a flag with a horned helmet on it, just like my ancestors used to fly


Humm, I am warning you: you have to be careful with the other meanings of a pair of horns, you know on Latin countries that means that you wife, well...I guess you can figure out the rest Have you heard the word "Cornudo" applied to a guy?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cornudo.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Corno

Regards

Paulo


----------



## GeorgeB

If flying a jolly roger is lame&#8230; What about Jolly Rogers flying airplanes?


----------



## captain jack

PCP said:


> Humm, I am warning you: you have to be careful with the other meanings of a pair of horns, you know on Latin countries that means that you wife, well...I guess you can figure out the rest Have you heard the word "Cornudo" applied to a guy?
> 
> Urban Dictionary: cornudo.
> 
> Urban Dictionary: Corno
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


lol. that's funny. it's also amazing how mainstream that...ah...activity has become. who'd have thought there'd be a reference to it on a sailing forum?


----------



## SimonV

Yay for the horned helmet. 
I do feel the only ones truly entitled to fly the pirate flag and should are the Chandlers.


----------



## unimacs

captain jack said:


> i know movies like 'ben hur' show everyone converting because of miracles but history might hold a few other suggestions as to how christianity came into prominence. however...
> 
> i believe you miss the point entirely. no one is suggesting that actual pirates are nice people. although, historically, the line between privateer and pirate is a little blurry. it's all a light hearted tongue in cheek thing. i think you are really reading too much into it. not everyone is that serious about stuff.


I think a lot of pirates where just unemployed privateers


----------



## Minnesail

PCP said:


> Humm, I am warning you: you have to be careful with the other meanings of a pair of horns, you know on Latin countries that means that you wife, well...I guess you can figure out the rest Have you heard the word "Cornudo" applied to a guy?
> 
> Urban Dictionary: cornudo.
> 
> Urban Dictionary: Corno


Whoa. I've been called a pinche cabrón a few times, but the implication of "putting horns on" a man is a new one to me.

This is bad news for fans of the Minnesota Vikings football team!









(And possibly Ericson owners as well.)


----------



## PCP

Minnesail said:


> Whoa. I've been called a pinche cabrón a few times, but the implication of "putting horns on" a man is a new one to me.
> ...


You know at school one the most practiced joke was at group photos puting horns on someone's head, For doing that a colleague, holding all the fingers closed, except the indicator? and the mini? (and those two well set apart), put the hand on the back of a head of the poor guy, giving it pair of horns.

Also the two more used insults with the hand are the indicator finger pointed up meaning what you probably now and the hand on the position described above that means that the guy you point it at has his wive screwed by someone else. Creative isn't it Like this:


----------



## captain jack

unimacs said:


> I think a lot of pirates where just unemployed privateers


true. once europe's nations got together and decided to ban the practice of using privateers, many privateers just kept up business as usual, just without their letters of marque.


----------



## captain jack

Minnesail said:


> Whoa. I've been called a pinche cabrón a few times, but the implication of "putting horns on" a man is a new one to me.
> 
> This is bad news for fans of the Minnesota Vikings football team!
> 
> (And possibly Ericson owners as well.)


it's logical. the person being cheated on is a cuckold the person she is cheating with is called the bull; thus the horns. now, it's not just something that happens to unwary husbands. it's a lifestyle that couples willingly engage in, and it uses the same terminology. the latter is what i thought he was referring to. here, in the states, most people don't know the terms cuckold and bull as an association with adultry, rather as terms of an alternate lifestyle.


----------



## Faster

Whoa!!! Thread drift alert!!


----------



## Minnesail

PCP said:


> You know at school one the most practiced joke was at group photos puting horns on someone's head, For doing that a colleague, holding all the fingers closed, except the indicator? and the mini? (and those two well set apart), put the hand on the back of a head of the poor guy, giving it pair of horns.


When I hold up my index and little finger it means I'm saying "OZZY RULES! ROCK AND ROLL FOREVER!"









And when I hold fingers up behind someone's head in a photo, it is my index and middle finger and then I am implying that they are a bunny rabbit. Hop hop!


----------



## Minnesail

Faster said:


> Whoa!!! Thread drift alert!!


Ooh, right. Back to the topic at hand. Is flying an Ozzy Osbourne flag lame?


----------



## captain jack

:laugher:laugher:laugher


----------



## bljones

Minnesail said:


> Ooh, right. Back to the topic at hand. Is flying an Ozzy Osbourne flag lame?


Not as lame as flying a Steel Dragon, Stillwater, or Wyld Stallyns flag...but not nearly as cool as flying a Spinal Tap flag.


----------



## Minnesail

bljones said:


> ...but not nearly as cool as flying a Spinal Tap flag.


That would just be a solid black flag, right?

Smell the flag!


----------



## socal c25

if it's what you like then do it.


----------



## captain jack

bljones said:


> Not as lame as flying a Steel Dragon, Stillwater, or Wyld Stallyns flag...but not nearly as cool as flying a Spinal Tap flag.


"but it goes to eleven". great movie. the scene where they are all dancing around the mini stonehenge because of an error in notation was classic.


----------



## rgscpat

But in the borderlands between the USA and Mexico, cuerno de chivo, the goat horn, is a full automatic assault rifle. (Derived I believe from the curved large magazine on an AK47 rifle.) But I supposed flying a flag with either an image of a goat's horn or of an automatic rifle while entering a Mexican port would be a bad idea, even if you don't have the wrong kind of anchor or aren't concerned about possible typos in your temporary import permit/document.


----------



## captain jack

http://





ok. you guys have got to watch this video. as soon as i saw it i thought of this thread. some of you will think this guy is the antichrist. lol. i laughed my butt off. to begin with, you notice he is flying not one, but, two pirate flags. now, i don't really see anything wrong with one but i think two is really a tad overkill. but that's not all ( i sound like a ginsu knife commercial ), not one, not two, but three jolly rogers for the price of one. watch him hoist sail. it's awesome. really. i actually love the sail...if he didn't also have the two flags. all three? imagine that. lol


----------



## randyrhines

I flew the Jolly Roger last year, my boats nicely trimmed in black so it kinda worked, but at least one other sailor called , a Pi-Rat flag, derogatorily and others said nothing, it's just fun as long as you don't take yourself to seriously fly what you like!


----------



## captain jack

randyrhines said:


> I flew the Jolly Roger last year, my boats nicely trimmed in black so it kinda worked, but at least one other sailor called , a Pi-Rat flag, derogatorily and others said nothing, it's just fun as long as you don't take yourself to seriously fly what you like!


agreed. i think the fact that this is a 'huge' issue, to some ( espessially to those who are Americans ), is a sign of the problem of our times and one reason for the collapse of our constitutional freedoms. those of us living in the US, are supposed to be living in a country where everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. so many people, however take that to mean ' you have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as long as i like what you do with that right'.

it's the attitude of any person that wishes to tell another person how they should live and what they should do. that attitude is one of superiority. so that, a progressive might say, " you can not consume sugary beverages because my wisdom is superior to yours and i know what's better for you more than you do" or " you can not practice your right to free speech because i am a better person than you and i don't like what you have to say" and a 'conservative' ( i say this in quotes because conservative is supposed to mean political conservative but usually, today, means religious conservative ) mght say, " you have no right to marry who you wish to marry because i am spiritually superior to you and i don't agree with how you live your life" or " you can not display your religious icons in public, although i demand that mine should be displayed, because i am spiritually superior to you and i do not agree with your religion".

those are big issues but people apply those principles to small ones, as well. so that, in one of my threads, a person felt it was good that a HOA would deny a person, who worked hard and sacrificed to afford a house ( they supposedly owned ) for their family, the right to have a basketball net in their driveway. it's the attitude that my superior sense of taste should over ride your inferior tastes; tastes which make you attempt to own a home that your family can enjoy.

so, too, with this. i don't care if you wish to fly the jolly roger or spongebob. it's your boat. i think spongebob is ridiculous, poorly drawn, and i don't see what anyone ( especially grown adults ) see in it. but it's not my boat. it's yours. i have no right to actually object if you fly a spongebob flag. i have a right to say i don't like it but i don't have a right to treat you poorly for it or to try to insist that you not fly it.

i may not agree with what you say, but i will defend, unto my death, the right for you to say it.

it seems that Americans, who should live by these words, have forgotten them.

( although, recently, the right to free speech got a big supportive boost from the American people; which shows what can happen if capitalism is alloowed to function as it should, without state intervention. money talks. there is a very real power of the purse strings. when consumers speak, either by buying or refusing to buy, they can have contol over the market and the businesses within that market. cracke barrel found that out, during the recent duck dynasty uproar.

it's like i am forever saying: the people have the power, not the government. the people have always had the power. they just rarely realize it. no one would have been killed, by their own government, at Tian'aman square, if no one had been willing to pull the trigger. those who govern do not carry out their own orders, the governed do. without the consent of the governed, those who govern have no power. everyone forgets this...and those who govern like it that way.)


----------



## Minnewaska

captain jack said:


> a....those of us living in the US, are supposed to be living in a country where everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness......


If you find any of these threatened because some think flying a pirate flag is lame, you would have to be paranoid.

The majority of people will think its lame. That's not the same as interfering with your right to fly one.

As I said earlier in the thread, this is really just a matter of whether one cares what others think. The fact that the OP asked, suggests they do and they got their answer.


----------



## PCP

captain jack said:


> http://
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... some of you will think this guy is the antichrist. lol. i laughed my butt off. to begin with, you notice he is flying not one, but, two pirate flags..


No... actually he sails like I imagine that sail those that fly that kind of kitsch stuff on their sailboat

Regards

Paulo


----------



## RIO GRANDE

We fly the Jolly Roger cause we don't belong to a yacht club, therefore no burgee. After watching this, we might take it down. Oh, and if I ever threw a sheet over the stern like that, I would be walking the plank


----------



## SVAuspicious

captain jack said:


> agreed. i think the fact that this is a 'huge' issue, to some ( espessially to those who are Americans ), is a sign of the problem of our times and one reason for the collapse of our constitutional freedoms. those of us living in the US, are supposed to be living in a country where everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. so many people, however take that to mean ' you have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as long as i like what you do with that right'.


I don't recall anyone saying that anyone else should not be allowed to fly a jolly roger, just that it was lame and/or in poor taste.



captain jack said:


> i have no right to actually object if you fly a spongebob flag.


You have every right to object, and every right to express your objection. You just don't have the right to make someone else take down a tacky flag. Of course you don't have to invite the owners of a Spongebob flag over for cocktails in your cockpit either.

I don't have to invite over those who fly a pirate flag.

While my own rights to free speech would allow me to make speeches in the local watering holes about how insensitive it is to fly a jolly roger I am pretty sure my sense of decorum and generally (not always) good taste would prevent me from making a pain of myself in that way. After all, a lack of politeness by others is no excuse for not being polite oneself.

_Remember the Quest_


----------



## captain jack

Minnewaska said:


> If you find any of these threatened because some think flying a pirate flag is lame, you would have to be paranoid.
> 
> The majority of people will think its lame. That's not the same as interfering with your right to fly one.
> 
> As I said earlier in the thread, this is really just a matter of whether one cares what others think. The fact that the OP asked, suggests they do and they got their answer.


not threatened by others finding it lame. after reading the responses in this whole thread it is hard not to come away with the feeling that some posters would like to see it banned, altogether...as something harmful. not just posts of oh i think it's lame but tirades about the evils of anyone who would dare fly the jolly roger...just highly judgemental.

that doesn't really convey the meaning i intend but i've no way to say it better. if you read through all the posts, you might understand what i am saying...or maybe you won't see it. perhaps i am just being affected by events, in the news, over the last 6 years, or so, and projecting that influence on what i read here.

but, you are right. the OP asked to be told whether he should fly the jolly roger or not.


----------



## captain jack

SVAuspicious said:


> I don't recall anyone saying that anyone else should not be allowed to fly a jolly roger, just that it was lame and/or in poor taste.
> 
> You have every right to object, and every right to express your objection. You just don't have the right to make someone else take down a tacky flag. Of course you don't have to invite the owners of a Spongebob flag over for cocktails in your cockpit either.
> 
> I don't have to invite over those who fly a pirate flag.
> 
> While my own rights to free speech would allow me to make speeches in the local watering holes about how insensitive it is to fly a jolly roger I am pretty sure my sense of decorum and generally (not always) good taste would prevent me from making a pain of myself in that way. After all, a lack of politeness by others is no excuse for not being polite oneself.
> 
> _Remember the Quest_


quite right on all points. i should have chosen a better word. i was thinking a bit more strongly than object. as i said, there has been a lot of stuff i the news about people or groups or politicians trying to impose their will, ban speach, or otherwise control the actions of others, and it may have colored my view of some of the posts.


----------



## SVAuspicious

captain jack said:


> quite right on all points. i should have chosen a better word. i was thinking a bit more strongly than object. as i said, there has been a lot of stuff i the news about people or groups or politicians trying to impose their will, ban speach, or otherwise control the actions of others, and it may have colored my view of some of the posts.


Graciously stated. C'mon down for a drink. *grin*


----------



## captain jack

SVAuspicious said:


> Graciously stated. C'mon down for a drink. *grin*


hey! you are on the bay, too. cool. my boat is berthed at nabbs creek, in glen burnie.

ever catch any mermaids?


----------



## weinie

Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me. 
We pillage plunder, we rifle and loot. 
Drink up me 'earties, yo ho. 
We kidnap and ravage and don't give a hoot. 
Drink up me 'earties, yo ho. 

Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me. 
We extort and pilfer, we filch and sack. 
Drink up me 'earties, yo ho. 
Maraud and embezzle and even highjack. 
Drink up me 'earties, yo ho. 

Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me. 
We kindle and char and in flame and ignite. 
Drink up me 'earties, yo ho. 
We burn up the city, we're really a fright. 
Drink up me 'earties, yo ho. 

We're rascals and scoundrels, we're villians and knaves. 
Drink up me 'earties, yo ho. 
We're devils and black sheep, we're really bad eggs. 
Drink up me 'earties, yo ho. 

We're beggars and blighters and ne'er do-well cads, 
Drink up me 'earties, yo ho. 
Aye, but we're loved by our mommies and dads, 
Drink up me 'earties, yo ho. 
Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me.



Sorry... just got back from Disney World this week.
3 times on Pirates of the Carribean


----------



## randyrhines

PCP said:


> No... actually he sails like I imagine that sail those that fly that kind of kitsch stuff on their sailboat
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


C'mon, its a beautiful boat, he's out sailing, flying his Jollies and haveing a great time recording his sail, prob for improvement not fame.
He just is stating his right to be different! More power to him!


----------



## SVAuspicious

captain jack said:


> hey! you are on the bay, too. cool. my boat is berthed at nabbs creek, in glen burnie.
> 
> ever catch any mermaids?


I've been on Back Creek in Annapolis for a long time. We just moved to HHN.

Caught my mermaid and not letting her go. *grin*


----------



## randyrhines

"The Jolly Roger" Its just that, In a day and age where conformity to the norm, which is fear and suspicion of our fellow man, sailors in this case flying a Rebel Flag, Are just stating the obvious, I Am an individual, and I have no fear of showing it, speaking it and living It! It is our diversity that makes us strong together, Each person, Sailor person, brings a different veiw or solution to the table. The sailor flying The Jolly Roger today likely is not a Pirate or does not condone such criminal acts. But is saying I AM still an individual with rights I will exercise! Touche! I say As well i will defend me right Also. 
For those offended , no apology will be heard , nor any quarter given. 
The buddy that has written in about , this attitude of the nay sayers is bang on, and so right! They are stating they are better and know better. 
Does anyone know where i can get a 4'x6' Jolly LOL!


----------



## randyrhines

For those wishing to catch a mermaid , may I suggest the "silver tongue" lurer......


----------



## PCP

randyrhines said:


> C'mon, its a beautiful boat, he's out sailing, flying his Jollies and haveing a great time recording his sail, prob for improvement not fame.
> He just is stating his right to be different. More power to him!


Yes, no doubt. He belongs to the club that sails pirates flags. I am just saying that i associate the poor sailing with the pirates flag. I am not seeing a top sailor fling a pirates flag, but maybe one day I will see one on a fast boat, who knows?

Regarding the boat it is a nice boat, I agree, but we goes out of port with a perfect wind and even so he keeps motoring and motoring and then he just raise reefed sails when it was perfectly okay to go with full sails or at least with much less reefed sails? And do you have noticed the wind direction (on the flag) and the trim of the main sail? that is flapping all the time?

I guess you should not say : *More power to the boat* instead of *"More power to him!"*






Regards

Paulo


----------



## Dog Ship

Wow, a little judgemental there Paulo. But then I wouldn't expect anything else from you.
We fly it because it shows a sense of humor, lighten up Dude!


----------



## Brewgyver

flyingwelshman said:


> I avoid the pirate flagged boats too. Not out of concern for my safety, or because I believe that the flag-fliers support rapists and murderers.
> 
> I avoid the pirate flags because they usually denote children aboard.
> 
> Other flags I avoid:


I can certainly understand that you might want to avoid boats with children - and people who do so are often doing a favor to the children!  I myself would be appreciative to the feline warning flag, as I'm deathly allergic to most of them - especially ones that spend their whole lives aboard.


----------



## captain jack

weinie said:


> Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me.
> We pillage plunder, we rifle and loot.
> Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.
> We kidnap and ravage and don't give a hoot.
> Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.
> 
> Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me.
> We extort and pilfer, we filch and sack.
> Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.
> Maraud and embezzle and even highjack.
> Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.
> 
> Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me.
> We kindle and char and in flame and ignite.
> Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.
> We burn up the city, we're really a fright.
> Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.
> 
> We're rascals and scoundrels, we're villians and knaves.
> Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.
> We're devils and black sheep, we're really bad eggs.
> Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.
> 
> We're beggars and blighters and ne'er do-well cads,
> Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.
> Aye, but we're loved by our mommies and dads,
> Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.
> Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me.
> 
> Sorry... just got back from Disney World this week.
> 3 times on Pirates of the Carribean


gee. how can you endorse such horrible people by doing that 3 times. i think you should have boycotted it because pirates were evil. ( no. that wasn't really sarcasm. it's just your imagination.  )


----------



## captain jack

SVAuspicious said:


> I've been on Back Creek in Annapolis for a long time. We just moved to HHN.
> 
> Caught my mermaid and not letting her go. *grin*


that's funny. i've been sailing from Back River, in essex. back creek. back river.

i have to ask, what is HHN. i don't always get all the abbreviations.

mermaids are cool but it's a hard choice. do you go for the classc mermaid, and only get to enjoy the top half, or do you go for the reverse, getting to enjoy the bottom half but having to kiss a fish? really hard choice. i realy like both halves of a woman...a lot.


----------



## captain jack

randyrhines said:


> For those wishing to catch a mermaid , may I suggest the "silver tongue" lurer......


lol that's a good one but the classic mermaid doesn't have the body parts to really appreciate such a lure


----------



## randyrhines

well i don't believe in mythical mermaids, Just real living breathing red blooded women, with all the natural God given treasured body parts, that make the silver tongue, lurer work so well.......LOL


----------



## randyrhines

PCP said:


> Yes, no doubt. He belongs to the club that sails pirates flags. I am just saying that i associate the poor sailing with the pirates flag. I am not seeing a top sailor fling a pirates flag, but maybe one day I will see one on a fast boat, who knows?
> 
> Regarding the boat it is a nice boat, I agree, but we goes out of port with a perfect wind and even so he keeps motoring and motoring and then he just raise reefed sails when it was perfectly okay to go with full sails or at least with much less reefed sails? And do you have noticed the wind direction (on the flag) and the trim of the main sail? that is flapping all the time?
> 
> I guess you should not say : *More power to the boat* instead of *"More power to him!"*
> 
> Reefing the Sails.wmv - YouTube
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


just curious Paulo , what papers do you hold, in terms of sailing accomplishments or credentials?

The fellow in the boat is obviously a very green sailor, I watched the complete video, that's my take on it.


----------



## randyrhines

FSMike said:


> It's OK if you have a cannon.
> 
> Hell, anything's OK if you've got a cannon.


I think your right mike, I've ordered the cannon.......


----------



## SVAuspicious

captain jack said:


> i have to ask, what is HHN. i don't always get all the abbreviations.
> 
> mermaids are cool but it's a hard choice. do you go for the classc mermaid, and only get to enjoy the top half, or do you go for the reverse, getting to enjoy the bottom half but having to kiss a fish? really hard choice. i realy like both halves of a woman...a lot.


Sorry about the abbreviation: HHN is Herrington Harbour North in Deale Maryland up Rockhold Creek off Herring Bay.

My mermaid changes oil in the main and gen, helps clean the deck, cranks me up the mast, talks to commercial traffic on the radio (they respond to women better than men), drives the boat, nags me about sail trim, and does the dishes (I cook). Janet is a wonder and I am very fortunate. I think I win.


----------



## PCP

randyrhines said:


> just curious Paulo , what papers do you hold, in terms of sailing accomplishments or credentials?
> 
> The fellow in the boat is obviously a very green sailor, I watched the complete video, that's my take on it.


I don't understand your question regarding my papers or credentials and what it has to do with it but I don't want to evade your question: I have a licence to sail a boat of any size anywhere, providing it is not a commercial one, regarding experience many thousands of sailing miles along many years.

Yes, it seems a green sailor to me and what I had said is that I am not seeing a top sailor flying a pirates flag, not talking about me (I am not one).

I associate that with lame and lame in what regards sailing with...very casual sailing to say the least. That is what I associate the use of that banner on a sailboat, others had said that associate it with freedom and other stuff.

On the spirit of this time of the year let's say that this thread as proved that the use of that banner is associated by different people in very different ways, meaning something to some and a completely different thing to others.

There is not a right or wrong here, it is just what it is. You can fly one but if you didn't know that you will know by know that while ones will think that you are a freedom fighter, others will think you have kids aboard and to others you will be giving just a lame signal. Up to you to decide if you want to fly a symbol that is at least an ambiguous one taking the risk of being not well understood.

Have a nice new year

Regards

Paulo


----------



## rgscpat

Context might sometimes matter. 
Taking kids out on a treasure hunt, taking a bunch of Parrotheads (Buffett fans) to a beach party, or anchoring off of a beach bar in the Caribbean for a full moon party might be more appropriate places to raise the Jolly Roger. Boating recreation is in part about silliness and fantasy, so novelty flags do have their place, just so long as the silliness doesn't impinge on the rights and safety of others. 

Entering a foreign harbor, attending a fund-raiser for crime victims, participating in a solemn memorial activity, or visiting a yacht club, or a community whose neighboring arch-rival sports team are called the pirates or similar... likely not so appropriate.


----------



## captain jack

SVAuspicious said:


> Sorry about the abbreviation: HHN is Herrington Harbour North in Deale Maryland up Rockhold Creek off Herring Bay.
> 
> My mermaid changes oil in the main and gen, helps clean the deck, cranks me up the mast, talks to commercial traffic on the radio (they respond to women better than men), drives the boat, nags me about sail trim, and does the dishes (I cook). Janet is a wonder and I am very fortunate. I think I win.


ok. i got you. that's a little over a half hour from here, by car.

lol. i think you do


----------



## PCP

Randy, I cannot reply to your PM (I don't know why) and I want to answer to your nice words. I was never pissed with you and all is perfectly alright.

Regarding traditional boats, even if now I sail a performance 41ft sailboat, the one on my avatar, my first boat was a 6.5m traditional gaff rigged 80 years old boat and I love traditional boats too.

I had the pleasure of being the captain of NRP Polar a 77 t copy of the schooner America for half an hour during one of the tests to take a licence and it was great fun I was younger and had the nerve to putting her downwind butterfly style under the suspicious eye of the true captain, a Navy officer. It went well and in the end I went out with flying colors.

Portal da Marinha - NRP Polar

I had a problem because I was the only one that was presenting myself to be examined without having followed a several month long proper institutional course and the captain had take a grudge with that. He ended up saying that I was the only one that new what I was doing. The fact that I was used to gaff riggers and traditional boats helped a lot as well as being used to sail (only with the Captain) an heavy two mast 60ft steel boat on heavy weather.

.......

On the conditions you describe (party time) and with that type of boats (traditional schooners) on a kind of historic setting a pirates flag can have another meaning and another connotation.

We do not have control with the associations we make regarding symbols, it is a subconscious thing and can vary from people to people but you are looked by others according the way they interpret the signs you give.

Have a great new year ...all of you, a great new year and a perfect New Year's Eve.

Best regards

Paulo


----------



## randyrhines

smackdaddy said:


> Definitely lame. And that's precisely why I fly one on the Smacktanic.


im wondering if the people who decide what is lame , were once the people who decided what was cool in highschool........


----------



## captain jack

randyrhines said:


> im wondering if the people who decide what is lame , were once the people who decided what was cool in highschool........


lol. probably. the truth is, people allow such people to decide what is cool or what is lame. the minute you conform to their ideas, you empower them. if you ignore them and do as you please, they hold no power.

in a big way, this thread was started with a misguided thought. the OP wasn't just polling public opinion. as a new sailor, he was seeking someone else to define his own style, for him.

no one should ever look to another to find a definition for who they are or should be. be yourself. if you like to fly a pirate flag, fly one. why do you care if someone else thinks it's lame? i am sure that, if you show me someone that thinks i'm lame, you will also be showing me someone that i think is lame on some level. everyone is different.

some people enjoy eating salad. personally, i wouldn't touch yard trimmings.  but if you like salad, i'm not going to try to tell you that you shouldn't because, i think it's your business. if you ask me what i like, i will tell you. but, i can't tell you what you should like and i am not going to think ( or speak ) ill of you if you decide you like to eat salad.

you should rejoice in your individuality not subject it to the whim and will of another. it's your life. live it as you see fit. it's like Jimi Hendricks said: " i'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die. so, let me live my life the way i want to."

it's just a matter of having the courage of your convictions.


----------



## Minnewaska

One can wax poetic all they like about freedom of expression, but all stinkpotters are lame. That's all I have to say about that.


----------



## captain jack

Minnewaska said:


> One can wax poetic all they like about freedom of expression, but all stinkpotters are lame. That's all I have to say about that.


:laugher


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> lol. probably. the truth is, people allow such people to decide what is cool or what is lame. the minute you conform to their ideas, you empower them. if you ignore them and do as you please, they hold no power.


This is great and I often ask myself why did high school exist as it did.... but I would say, there are certain things in life that still exist as they do in high school. The athletes still rule... and the movie stars in bikinis still are the objects of desire... and while I personally might not be the one who laud them with adoration, we do live in and part of a society that does, just as i did in high school.



captain jack said:


> in a big way, this thread was started with a misguided thought. the OP wasn't just polling public opinion. as a new sailor, he was seeking someone else to define his own style, for him.
> 
> no one should ever look to another to find a definition for who they are or should be. be yourself. if you like to fly a pirate flag, fly one. why do you care if someone else thinks it's lame? i am sure that, if you show me someone that thinks i'm lame, you will also be showing me someone that i think is lame on some level. everyone is different.
> 
> some people enjoy eating salad. personally, i wouldn't touch yard trimmings.  but if you like salad, i'm not going to try to tell you that you shouldn't because, i think it's your business. if you ask me what i like, i will tell you. but, i can't tell you what you should like and i am not going to think ( or speak ) ill of you if you decide you like to eat salad.
> 
> you should rejoice in your individuality not subject it to the whim and will of another. it's your life. live it as you see fit. it's like Jimi Hendricks said: " i'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die. so, let me live my life the way i want to."
> 
> it's just a matter of having the courage of your convictions.


I agree with this, but if we do look up to people for a reason. Jimi Hendrix was a great guitar player and entertainer... thus we say his quotes have more value.

Or more to our environment: If Jimmy Spithill would have raised a Jolly Rogers on the Oracle when he won the America's Cup, a lot of people would be sailing the flag and it wouldn't be so 'lame.'

Again I am not saying this for an argument or to disagree, but the fact is we do look to others for approval. In part I think that is why forums exist, so we can ask opinions of a subject, with the hopes people will explain why they believe what they do and perhaps change opinions or validate ones that exist.

But to your main point (I think) do what you want and enjoy it.!


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> I agree with this, but if we do look up to people for a reason. Jimi Hendrix was a great guitar player and entertainer... thus we say his quotes have more value.


while i will agree that Jimi Hendricks was one of the greatest blues guitarists of all time, for my part, i don't quote musicians or writers, or anyone else, because of their staus. some quotes resonate with me. if i quote Jim Morrison, for instance, it's not because he is a great poet but because the quote had meaning for me and expressed my own thoughts in a meaningful way. similarly, the music i listen to does not shape my viewpoints. i listen to the music i do because it fits my viewpoints. for instance, Iron Maiden was one of my favorite bands in the 80s partially because many of their songs glorified the warrior mentality ( the trooper, sun and steel, etc ). i like Jimmy Buffet music because he sings of sailing. i wasn't drawn to sailing by his music. but i digress.



titustiger27 said:


> Or more to our environment: If Jimmy Spithill would have raised a Jolly Rogers on the Oracle when he won the America's Cup, a lot of people would be sailing the flag and it wouldn't be so 'lame.'


very very true. excellent point.


----------



## PCP

titustiger27 said:


> ...
> Or more to our environment: If Jimmy Spithill would have raised a Jolly Rogers on the Oracle when he won the America's Cup, a lot of people would be sailing the flag and it wouldn't be so 'lame.'


The point here is: What would Spithill think about flying a Jolly Rogers on his beautiful cat? Would he consider flying one? It is the right symbol regarding the image he has of sailing?

But perhaps it is not so dificult to guess: Can you post any picture of a top sailor flying a Jolly Rodgers on a top racing sailboat? I don't think so, but I can be wrong

Regards

Paulo


----------



## titustiger27

PCP said:


> The point here is: What would Spithill think about flying a Jolly Rogers on his beautiful cat? Would he consider flying one? It is the right symbol regarding the image he has of sailing?
> 
> But perhaps it is not so dificult to guess: Can you post any picture of a top sailor flying a Jolly Rodgers on a top racing sailboat? I don't think so, but I can be wrong
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


Good point, and one I can't contest... I could suggest that their might be rules about what flags to raise... and that when you are working for Oracle and what a sponsor like that allows that isn't something of a sponsor image placement... but I don't know I did a quick google search and nothing.

But I will throw it back to you -- have you ever seen a Jimmy Spithill type -- raise any flag... like a US Flag in that type of race? (though that might be considered Lame for a Sailor of Australian heritage )

I am guessing that HAS been done.

Edit: so my point, might seem as a straw argument... but if a top sailor did raise a jolly rogers at the end of the biggest sailing races. I dare say, it would no longer be lame.


----------



## CBinRI

radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG


Yes, unless your kids think it's cool.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> while i will agree that Jimi Hendricks was one of the greatest blues guitarists of all time, for my part, i don't quote musicians or writers, or anyone else, because of their staus. some quotes resonate with me. if i quote Jim Morrison, for instance, it's not because he is a great poet but because the quote had meaning for me and expressed my own thoughts in a meaningful way. similarly, the music i listen to does not shape my viewpoints. i listen to the music i do because it fits my viewpoints. for instance, Iron Maiden was one of my favorite bands in the 80s partially because many of their songs glorified the warrior mentality ( the trooper, sun and steel, etc ). i like Jimmy Buffet music because he sings of sailing. i wasn't drawn to sailing by his music. but i digress.


No but.

Would you quote members of the Al Hansen or Bibbe Hansen, probably if you saw a string of words that resonated with you, but I would suggest that you are unlikely to see people associated with the Fluxus Movement being quoted, because of their low popularity. Just as a quote from Edgar Allen Poe is readily available, and Renee Petrillo is not --- and I can tell you one of those two authors writes about sailing... and one has the evil of a pirate flag.

While you may be drawn to things that you appreciate, not because of popularity... but if you never heard of the artist creating them.. and their words were less likely to be recorded... and/or repeated.... you may not be using an unknown's quote.

I don't think you are directly quoting the cool kids if you quote Jimi Hendrix, but I do think his popularity would cause you to know of his words. There are many Jolly Rogers/pirate flags in history... but when we say Jolly Rogers, my guess we tend to think of a certain one and not


----------



## titustiger27

CBinRI said:


> Yes, unless your kids think it's cool.


or if the cool kids think


----------



## SVAuspicious

titustiger27 said:


> But I will throw it back to you -- have you ever seen a Jimmy Spithill type -- raise any flag... like a US Flag in that type of race? (though that might be considered Lame for a Sailor of Australian heritage )


Racers conventionally don't fly their national ensign during a race.

Battle flags and ensigns are common before the start and after the finish.


----------



## titustiger27

SVAuspicious said:


> Racers conventionally don't fly their national ensign during a race.
> 
> Battle flags and ensigns are common before the start and after the finish.


But to PCP's point, are their top level sailors who would do this? Fly a Jolly Rogers, a My Little Pony, etc flag?


----------



## SVAuspicious

titustiger27 said:


> But to PCP's point, are their top level sailors who would do this? Fly a Jolly Rogers, a My Little Pony, etc flag?


I haven't seen any. I've seen a Jolly Roger from time to time on a club racer. Most battle flags mean something to the owner, boat, or crew. I sailed with a guy whose name was Hamburger; he use a McDonalds flag as a battle flag. *grin*

Here is mine:


----------



## bljones

titustiger27 said:


> But to PCP's point, are their top level sailors who would do this? Fly a Jolly Rogers, a My Little Pony, etc flag?


No, because it may take the spotlight away from and/or offend a sponsor who has just spent millions to help build (Using AC as an example) a very quick boat with a very limited life span under very limited conditions... for a very limited audience.


----------



## titustiger27

bljones said:


> No, because it may take the spotlight away from and/or offend a sponsor who has just spent millions to help build (Using AC as an example) a very quick boat with a very limited life span under very limited conditions... for a very limited audience.


I think it is less limited that most other sailing --- if I understand you right. My guess is more people watched at least a snippet of sailing last year, than the previous two years... and had their been a special 'Oracle' Jolly Rogers flag or any special flag... there would be quite a few American sailors ordering one...


----------



## titustiger27

SVAuspicious said:


> I haven't seen any. I've seen a Jolly Roger from time to time on a club racer. Most battle flags mean something to the owner, boat, or crew. I sailed with a guy whose name was Hamburger; he use a McDonalds flag as a battle flag. *grin*
> 
> Here is mine:


what is that.. kind of looks like a monkey -- if so it isn't lame...


----------



## therapy23

titustiger27 said:


> *This is great and I often ask myself why did high school exist as it did.... but I would say, there are certain things in life that still exist as they do in high school. The athletes still rule... and the movie stars in bikinis still are the objects of desire... and while I personally might not be the one who laud them with adoration, we do live in and part of a society that does, just as i did in high school.*


Amazing how shallow humans are eh?


----------



## titustiger27

therapy23 said:


> Amazing how shallow humans are eh?


Yes... but part of my thought here is... unless you can remove yourself...totally... from society. you are part of society.

You can say you care less about Miley Cyrus, but really how do you avoid her, or conversation about her?

(Also and on tangent) I believe about 30 percent of the world is positive. 20 percent negative (often referred to as trolls on the internet) and 50 percent indifferent. and so often when you are (say) flying your freak flag or your jolly rogers, that 20 percent makes a point of criticizing you and it is made worse when the 50 percent doesn't say... "back off, let it be."


----------



## SVAuspicious

titustiger27 said:


> what is that.. kind of looks like a monkey -- if so it isn't lame...


Hmm. Most people say it looks like an ear.

That is the Tibetan ideograph for the word Auspicious, the name of my boat. That is the offside so it is backwards. The original was drawn for me by my friend Tai Situpa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. I had it scaled up and North Sails in San Fransisco built the flag for me.


----------



## titustiger27

SVAuspicious said:


> Hmm. Most people say it looks like an ear.
> 
> That is the Tibetan ideograph for the word Auspicious, the name of my boat. That is the offside so it is backwards. The original was drawn for me by my friend Tai Situpa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. I had it scaled up and North Sails in San Fransisco built the flag for me.


Awesome

真棒


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> Yes... but part of my thought here is... unless you can remove yourself...totally... from society. you are part of society.
> 
> You can say you care less about Miley Cyrus, but really how do you avoid her, or conversation about her?
> 
> (Also and on tangent) I believe about 30 percent of the world is positive. 20 percent negative (often referred to as trolls on the internet) and 50 percent indifferent. and so often when you are (say) flying your freak flag or your jolly rogers, that 20 percent makes a point of criticizing you and it is made worse when the 50 percent doesn't say... "back off, let it be."


that's only if you care what they say.

you must be an optimist. i'd say that it's oly 20%, maybe less, that are indifferent. very few people you meet have nothing to say about what others do. i'd also say that 99% of the time ( depending on what you are talking about ) the negatives outnumber the positives...sometimes by a large margin.

if you have the courage of your commitments you dson't need the percent of positives to tell the negatives to back off and let you alone. you can flip the negatives the finger, yourself. i do it all the time.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> that's only if you care what they say.
> 
> you must be an optimist. i'd say that it's oly 20%, maybe less, that are indifferent. very few people you meet have nothing to say about what others do. i'd also say that 99% of the time ( depending on what you are talking about ) the negatives outnumber the positives...sometimes by a large margin.
> 
> if you have the courage of your commitments you dson't need the percent of positives to tell the negatives to back off and let you alone. you can flip the negatives the finger, yourself. i do it all the time.


While you (me) might be able to ignore the stars of high school, who now are the actors and jocks and so on... it doesn't stop the control they have in the world. Think of the people --- say a George Clooney that have a personal audience with Obama, say it is because they have money, but they have that money because they are the stars of adult high school.

50 percent being indifferent isn't optimist, because I have seen how those people wast the opportunities of so many.

Here is an example... where I live we are trying to organize a snowmobile event. The thinking being the town is the center of miles of trails and an 'active' snowmobile club. In the 10 meetings the club has sent a representative one time. To me that is indifference, because when the president showed up that one time he said it was a good idea.

I would guess the club has 120 members... one member shows up for one meeting... Now we have an event scheduled with concerts, kids activities and lots of other fun things to do.. but not a lot of snowmobile events.

I know We are way off topic.. but think of all the people who have not weighed in on flying a jolly rogers... Not that they should on such a frivolous discussion.... but if you looked at the sides in this discussion you would guess it is Lame to fly the flag, but I would be more people think: "whatever dude, do what makes you happy."

It just doesn't look that way


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> While you (me) might be able to ignore the stars of high school, who now are the actors and jocks and so on... it doesn't stop the control they have in the world. Think of the people --- say a George Clooney that have a personal audience with Obama, say it is because they have money, but they have that money because they are the stars of adult high school.


that is true but i think that is apples and oranges. there is a big difference between someone voicing a bad opinion of what you do and someone exerting political influence to control your life. the first can be ignored without real consequence. the latter must be fought tooth and nail, or you lose liberty and/or prosperity.



titustiger27 said:


> 50 percent being indifferent isn't optimist, because I have seen how those people wast the opportunities of so many.


i think you mistake me. i meant you were being optimistic that so few people were negative and that the majority were either indifferent or positive.



titustiger27 said:


> Here is an example... where I live we are trying to organize a snowmobile event. The thinking being the town is the center of miles of trails and an 'active' snowmobile club. In the 10 meetings the club has sent a representative one time. To me that is indifference, because when the president showed up that one time he said it was a good idea.
> 
> I would guess the club has 120 members... one member shows up for one meeting... Now we have an event scheduled with concerts, kids activities and lots of other fun things to do.. but not a lot of snowmobile events.


is that indifference, apathy, or simple laziness?

you see the same thing in the motorcycle community. people would be members of motorcycle rights groups ( like ABATE ) and not come to meetings or not actively particpate in actions ( letter writing, protest rides, etc ) to protect or regain the rights of motorcyclists. that is usually laziness. the idea that you don't have to put forth effort. someone else will do it. it's worth griping about the issue but not exerting any effort to take action.

however, in a lot of situations ( like the low numbers of people who vote ) what looks to be indifference is apathy. people care what happens but they feel they can't affect change or that there is no one to vote for. so, they just don't vote; instead, they settle into a hopeless malaise.

neither laziness and apathy are indiference, really. lazy and apathetic people may actually care but just not enough to act.

indifference is someone who actually doesn't care or have an opinion. i agree with you. those who are truly indifferent didn't bother to post saying that they don't care...because they don't care. the question is, how many of the people who read the thread and didn't post a reply, did so out of indifference?

many people don't post a reply to a thread if they think they have nothing to add. also, many people have an opinion, one way or the other, but don't care enough, about an issue, to post their opinion. and, there are some people that just don't post much; the lurkers. but any of these people may actually have an opinion and, therefore, not be indifferent.

thinking about it, i think it would be interesting to know the demographics of those who read the thread and did not post a reply. how many were positive. how many negative. how many really didn't care, either way. and why the members of each group decided not to post.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> that is true but i think that is apples and oranges. there is a big difference between someone voicing a bad opinion of what you do and someone exerting political influence to control your life. the first can be ignored without real consequence. the latter must be fought tooth and nail, or you lose liberty and/or prosperity.
> 
> is that indifference, apathy, or simple laziness?
> 
> you see the same thing in the motorcycle community. people would be members of motorcycle rights groups ( like ABATE ) and not come to meetings or not actively particpate in actions ( letter writing, protest rides, etc ) to protect or regain the rights of motorcyclists. that is usually laziness. the idea that you don't have to put forth effort. someone else will do it. it's worth griping about the issue but not exerting any effort to take action.
> 
> however, in a lot of situations ( like the low numbers of people who vote ) what looks to be indifference is apathy. people care what happens but they feel they can't affect change or that there is no one to vote for. so, they just don't vote; they settle into a hopeless malaise.
> 
> neither laziness and apathy are indiference, really. lazy and apathetic people may actually care but just not enough to act.
> 
> indifference is someone who actually doesn't care or have an opinion. i agree with you. those who are truly indifferent didn't bother to post saying that they don't care...because they don't care. the question is, how many of the people who read the thread and didn't post a reply, did so out of indifference?
> 
> many people don't post a reply to a thread if they think they have nothing to add. also, many people have an opinion, one way or the other, but don't care enough, about an issue, to post their opinion. and, there are some people that just don't post much; the lurkers. but any of these people may actually have an opinion and, therefore, not be indifferent.
> 
> thinking about it, i think it would be interesting to know the demographics of those who read the thread and did not post a reply. how many were positive. how many negative. how many really didn't care, either way. and why the members of each group decided not to post.


I think indifference and apathy and laziness are the same, or at the very least inbred cousins....

and there are other emotions that are closely related. Like you might have an opinion about pirate flags, but (as you mentioned) are too lazy or feel they have nothing to add.... but are probably also the same... or indifferent about clicking 'like' or 'thanks' (because their opinion was supported or presented)...

But if one poster criticized another (who happened to hold the indifferent person's opinion) I think it is sad when they don't step to the plate and back up their opinion and the person posting it.

I like to think forums are exchange of ideas. In this thread I have flip flopped if I like putting a pirate flag up... I don't think I ever thought it was lame... but I have thought about how it could be supporting the Pittsburgh baseball team when I am a Tigers fan... (and other ideas) and I just realized I am probably using 'indifferent' wrong.

It is too bad that all the opinions --- that exist --- aren't part of any discussion since it dumbs it down some.

As far as motorcycle clubs and especially snowmobile clubs go with participation there is always more to it. For example: most of the people in NYS that belong to a snowmobile club do so because they get a discounted registration and they save money.

I would be 70 percent are not 'club' type people... but I think they use the club in another way. I asked a member six months ago if he would volunteer for the event and his response was: "I'm sure the club will be doing things." and he implied he would be part of that..or maybe I inferred it.

Now I know that he knew that in the end either someone else in the club would be the volunteer... or that in the end he would get out of it by saying: "no one from the club called me." and all the time knowing they probably wouldn't in the first place


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> I think indifference and apathy and laziness are the same, or at the very least inbred cousins....
> 
> and there are other emotions that are closely related. Like you might have an opinion about pirate flags, but (as you mentioned) are too lazy or feel they have nothing to add.... but are probably also the same... or indifferent about clicking 'like' or 'thanks' (because their opinion was supported or presented)...
> 
> But if one poster criticized another (who happened to hold the indifferent person's opinion) I think it is sad when they don't step to the plate and back up their opinion and the person posting it.
> 
> I like to think forums are exchange of ideas. In this thread I have flip flopped if I like putting a pirate flag up... I don't think I ever thought it was lame... but I have thought about how it could be supporting the Pittsburgh baseball team when I am a Tigers fan... (and other ideas) and I just realized I am probably using 'indifferent' wrong.
> 
> It is too bad that all the opinions --- that exist --- aren't part of any discussion since it dumbs it down some.
> 
> As far as motorcycle clubs and especially snowmobile clubs go with participation there is always more to it. For example: most of the people in NYS that belong to a snowmobile club do so because they get a discounted registration and they save money.
> 
> I would be 70 percent are not 'club' type people... but I think they use the club in another way. I asked a member six months ago if he would volunteer for the event and his response was: "I'm sure the club will be doing things." and he implied he would be part of that..or maybe I inferred it.
> 
> Now I know that he knew that in the end either someone else in the club would be the volunteer... or that in the end he would get out of it by saying: "no one from the club called me." and all the time knowing they probably wouldn't in the first place


it really is a shame when people chose not to get involved, if they care...especially with elections and similar things. if you don't take action, or get involved, you really have no right to gripe if things aren't as you'd like them.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> it really is a shame when people chose not to get involved, if they care...especially with elections and similar things. if you don't take action, or get involved, you really have no right to gripe if things aren't as you'd like them.


I agree, but I think lots of people believe they get as much if they aren't involved.

I am less amazed at the people who don't vote, then the people who do and have done nothing to investigate what they are doing. Which kind of brings back letting the cool people tell you what to do... when you are 15 and you think it would be cool to be a jock, because you would have a shot at the cheer leader, it is just hormones.

but to vote for a person because a) you belong to that party and/or b) some talk radio guy says you should.

Without checking the facts.

With the snowmobile event, I thought the club would be more involved because their sport would benefit from it... their lack of attendance might be laziness, but to me it is indifference because without too much effort one or two hours out of their life, they could have not only found out what was going on, but also shaped the event with their knowledge of the sport.

*
edit --- I see that the ad that pops up for me is for a flag store.. my advertising profile believes I am about to buy a flag ha*


----------



## manatee

This is a fun thread; you folks may enjoy this:

What You Can't Say


----------



## titustiger27

manatee said:


> This is a fun thread; you folks may enjoy this:
> 
> What You Can't Say


You have to watch "American Hustle" the movie is set in the 70's

comb overs, men wearing curlers... just fashion that is not just lame now, but actually hilarious

Edit: while reading the article and the question about some of the things would you admit to during different time periods ... there is a personal site that asks questions to 'match' you, one of the questions is: "which is bigger earth or the sun." quite a few people say Earth


----------



## manatee

titustiger27 said:


> This is great and I often ask myself why did high school exist as it did.... but I would say, there are certain things in life that still exist as they do in high school. The athletes still rule... and the movie stars in bikinis still are the objects of desire... and while I personally might not be the one who laud them with adoration, we do live in and part of a society that does, just as i did in high school.


"It's important to realize that, no, the adults don't know what the kids are doing to one another. They know, in the abstract, that kids are monstrously cruel to one another, just as we know in the abstract that people get tortured in poorer countries. But, like us, they don't like to dwell on this depressing fact, and they don't see evidence of specific abuses unless they go looking for it.

Public school teachers are in much the same position as prison wardens. Wardens' main concern is to keep the prisoners on the premises. They also need to keep them fed, and as far as possible prevent them from killing one another. Beyond that, they want to have as little to do with the prisoners as possible, so they leave them to create whatever social organization they want. From what I've read, the society that the prisoners create is warped, savage, and pervasive, and it is no fun to be at the bottom of it.

In outline, it was the same at the schools I went to. The most important thing was to stay on the premises. While there, the authorities fed you, prevented overt violence, and made some effort to teach you something. But beyond that they didn't want to have too much to do with the kids. Like prison wardens, the teachers mostly left us to ourselves. And, like prisoners, the culture we created was barbaric."

From the essay Why Nerds Are Unpopular, by Paul Graham; a chapter of "Hackers and Painters: Big Ideas from the Computer Age", available as individual essays on his website here.


----------



## JonEisberg

captain jack said:


> Originally Posted by titustiger27 View Post
> 
> While you (me) might be able to ignore the stars of high school, who now are the actors and jocks and so on... it doesn't stop the control they have in the world. Think of the people --- say a George Clooney that have a personal audience with Obama, say it is because they have money, but they have that money because they are the stars of adult high school.
> 
> 
> 
> that is true but i think that is apples and oranges. there is a big difference between someone voicing a bad opinion of what you do and someone exerting political influence to control your life. the first can be ignored without real consequence. the latter must be fought tooth and nail, or you lose liberty and/or prosperity.
Click to expand...

LMAO!

_George Clooney_ as an example of someone who is trying to control your life, steal your liberty and/or your money, and who must be fought tooth and nail at every turn???

Damn, I'd love to know from which bleating wingnut klaxon that bit of nonsense emanated... Something to be found on the AM radio band, would be my guess... 



> Clooney is also noted for his political activism and has served as one of the United Nations Messengers of Peace since January 31, 2008.
> 
> Clooney's humanitarian work includes his advocacy of finding a resolution for the Darfur conflict, raising funds for the 2010 Haiti earthquake, 2004 Tsunami, and 9/11 victims, and creating documentaries such as Sand and Sorrow to raise awareness about international crises. He is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.


----------



## manatee

JonEisberg said:


> LMAO!
> 
> _George Clooney_ as an example of someone who is trying to control your life, steal your liberty and/or your money, and who must be fought tooth and nail at every turn???
> 
> Damn, I'd love to know from which bleating wingnut klaxon that bit of nonsense emanated... Something to be found on the AM radio band, would be my guess...


 How to Disagree


----------



## captain jack

JonEisberg said:


> LMAO!
> 
> _George Clooney_ as an example of someone who is trying to control your life, steal your liberty and/or your money, and who must be fought tooth and nail at every turn???
> 
> Damn, I'd love to know from which bleating wingnut klaxon that bit of nonsense emanated... Something to be found on the AM radio band, would be my guess...


i believe you have missed the point. he gave george cloony as an example, for the sake of the point. i doubt he did research into george cloony and was actally making a point of protest towards the actor. his point was that the 'stars' of highschool become the 'stars' of the adult world, where they can actually affect people's lives.

i was responding to his point, not specifically to the political efforts of george cloony. my point was that celebrities often spend considerable effort and money trying to influence government. in most cases, celebrities are progressive and act to try to get liberty restrained ( gun rights comes to mind ) or to advance the cause of socialism. while every citizen should have a say, it is dangerous for the 'stars' to have a greater say/pull because of their celebrity ( even more dangerous when the celebrity is not even a citizen of the country whose government he is trying to influence, like Bono from U2 ) and that kind of political interference needs to be fought. just being a celebrity gives you greater influence. however, it does not guarantee that your opinions carry the weight of reason or justice. yet, many people will automatically buy into what a celebrity is selling, without bothering to check it for value. similarly, politicians respond to the wealth, power to pursuade the public, and connections of these celebrities...especially when a celebrity comes out supporting something which is to that politician's benefit.

that was my point. so, while i am sure george cloony appreciates your defence of his actions ( might be worth an autographed picture if you let him know ), there was nothing to defend against.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> i believe you have missed the point. he gave george cloony as an example, for the sake of the point. i doubt he did research into george cloony and was actally making a point of protest towards the actor. his point was that the 'stars' of highschool become the 'stars' of the adult world, where they can actually affect people's lives.
> 
> i was responding to his point, not specifically to the political efforts of george cloony. my point was that celebrities often spend considerable effort and money trying to influence government. in most cases, celebrities are progressive and act to try to get liberty restrained ( gun rights comes to mind ) or to advance the cause of socialism. while every citizen should have a say, it is dangerous for the 'stars' to have a greater say/pull because of their celebrity ( even more dangerous when the celebrity is not even a citizen of the country whose government he is trying to influence, like Bono from U2 ) and that kind of political interference needs to be fought. just being a celebrity gives you greater influence. however, it does not guarantee that your opinions carry the weight of reason or justice. yet, many people will automatically buy into what a celebrity is selling, without bothering to check it for value. similarly, politicians respond to the wealth, power to pursuade the public, and connections of these celebrities...especially when a celebrity comes out supporting something which is to that politician's benefit.
> 
> that was my point. so, while i am sure george cloony appreciates your defence of his actions ( might be worth an autographed picture if you let him know ), there was nothing to defend against.


What was my formula -- 30 percent positive, 50 percent and indifferent and some that will take things out of contest for their own means.

Could you send me a photo of Clint Eastwood and a chair


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## titustiger27

manatee said:


> "**{snip}}
> 
> In outline, it was the same at the schools I went to. The most important thing was to stay on the premises. While there, the authorities fed you, prevented overt violence, and made some effort to teach you something. But beyond that they didn't want to have too much to do with the kids. Like prison wardens, the teachers mostly left us to ourselves. And, like prisoners, the culture we created was barbaric."
> 
> From the essay Why Nerds Are Unpopular, by Paul Graham; a chapter of "Hackers and Painters: Big Ideas from the Computer Age", available as individual essays on his website here.


This is a pretty neat article ---- though it wanders some --- but one of the things it leaves out is there is still some aspect of popularity in adult life. The people with the 'people skills' or better 'popularity skills' are the ones who often do better, not the best workers. I actually work in a school environment and see the popularity both at the student level and the adult level.

The teachers that group into their clique and work their way into the popularity of the boss appear to be the better employees...

It is funny to hear the boss talk about a certain teacher as being on the cutting edge.. doing something that I have been doing for five years and just recently taught that teacher.. but I don't have the desire to be popular... I don't work at it... that in itself --- kind of ostracizes one (me) from the institution. (I am not saying I fit into the 'smart' category --- far from it).

It a way it brings it back to a comment I made about Jimmy Spithill flying a jolly rogers would probably make that flying a flag cool.

He would not do it to be popular.. But it would be a winner doing something that we who also would like to be winners can emulate.

I couldn't win the America's Cup, but I could fly the pirate flag of the winning Oracle team.


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> What was my formula -- 30 percent positive, 50 percent and indifferent and some that will take things out of contest for their own means.
> 
> Could you send me a photo of Clint Eastwood and a chair


lol. that's what i was getting ready to point out. i would say he kind of proved my point. people are negative more often than positive.

he could have addressed either of our points but chose an inconsiquential example so he could have a negative comment.... i'd say very negative due to the insulting nature of the post.

that's what i was getting at when i said i thought that 50% were negative compared to 30% positive and 20% actually indifferent.

obviously, neither of our actual points mattered to him. he didn't have anything to say about the point of either post.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> ** ** snip } }
> 
> obviously, neither of our actual points mattered to him. he didn't have anything to say about the point of either post.


and it wouldn't have seen so 'out there' if he would explained why the George Clooney analogy didn't work....
*
or worse said he thought pirate flags are lame*


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> and it wouldn't have seen so 'out there' if he would explained why the George Clooney analogy didn't work....
> *
> or worse said he thought pirate flags are lame*


in all fairness, he did give a supporting evidence; his quote stating the things clooney was involved in. as i see it, the problem ( outside of the insulting negative nature of his post ) is that he made a negative post that didn't address the issues of either post he was narcing on. it was negative for the purpose of being negative.


----------



## JonEisberg

manatee said:


> How to Disagree


Excellent advice, of course...

As is, say, the advice to always wear a life jacket...

Yeah, well - I rarely follow that one, either...


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> in all fairness, he did give a supporting evidence; his quote stating the things clooney was involved in. as i see it, the problem ( outside of the insulting negative nature of his post ) is that he made a negative post that didn't address the issues of either post he was narcing on. it was negative for the purpose of being negative.


Ironically, I thought those quotes _disproved_ the point. Like coloring -- it is how you perceive it


----------



## JonEisberg

captain jack said:


> i was responding to his point, not specifically to the political efforts of george cloony. my point was that celebrities often spend considerable effort and money trying to influence government. in most cases, celebrities are progressive and act to try to get liberty restrained ( gun rights comes to mind ) or to advance the cause of socialism. while every citizen should have a say, it is dangerous for the 'stars' to have a greater say/pull because of their celebrity ( even more dangerous when the celebrity is not even a citizen of the country whose government he is trying to influence, like Bono from U2 ) and that kind of political interference needs to be fought.


Nah, I think I got the point...

Hollywood actors/celebrities leveraging their fame to enter the political arena, or attempt to influence public policy, is _BAD_...

Well, _SOMETIMES_...

All depends upon which team they're playing for, of course...


----------



## titustiger27

I guess it is okay to be political if your heart is in it...


----------



## manatee

titustiger27 said:


> I actually work in a school environment and see the popularity both at the student level and the adult level.
> 
> The teachers that group into their clique and work their way into the popularity of the boss appear to be the better employees...


Unfortunately, some never outgrow the schoolyard mindset.

"What you should not do, I think, is worry about the opinion of anyone beyond your friends. You shouldn't worry about prestige. Prestige is the opinion of the rest of the world. When you can ask the opinions of people whose judgement you respect, what does it add to consider the opinions of people you don't even know? [4]

This is easy advice to give. It's hard to follow, especially when you're young. [5] Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. It causes you to work not on what you like, but what you'd like to like."

.....from this.



titustiger27 said:


> I couldn't win the America's Cup, but I could fly the pirate flag of the winning Oracle team.


Just as people wear hats & shirts & jackets with their favorite team's logo. It's a way of joining a particular group we like. We all do it, it's hardwired into our primate brains. I think that's what's attractive about the pirate mystique. They represent the first time in modern history that Europeans could be free men, choosing their work, comrades and leaders. It's a way of thumbing your nose or flipping the finger at "The Man".

"Take what you can....give nothing back." Sail on, my Brethren of the Coast!


----------



## titustiger27

manatee said:


> Unfortunately, some never outgrow the schoolyard mindset.
> 
> "What you should not do, I think, is worry about the opinion of anyone beyond your friends. You shouldn't worry about prestige. Prestige is the opinion of the rest of the world. When you can ask the opinions of people whose judgement you respect, what does it add to consider the opinions of people you don't even know? [4]
> 
> This is easy advice to give. It's hard to follow, especially when you're young. [5] Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. It causes you to work not on what you like, but what you'd like to like."
> 
> .....from this.


*I'm starting to think YOU are Paul Graham!! ;-)*



manatee said:


> Just as people wear hats & shirts & jackets with their favorite team's logo. It's a way of joining a particular group we like. We all do it, it's hardwired into our primate brains. I think that's what's attractive about the pirate mystique. They represent the first time in modern history that Europeans could be free men, choosing their work, comrades and leaders. It's a way of thumbing your nose or flipping the finger at "The Man".
> 
> "Take what you can....give nothing back." Sail on, my Brethren of the Coast!


I don't think people out grow it, It's like Mr. Graham pointed out.. once you become an adult the playing field is a little different.

I have read a couple of those social psychology books lately "Outliers" "Power of Habits"

There are things that work with high school... or school in general.. but also in adult life. I see little kids bopping from lunch table to lunch table. Not sure if they are gossiping or just touch base with friends... but they may group up to be those people who are 'joiners'

As far as teachers go.... each classroom is a fiefdom.. and it is interesting to see the little wars that go on to protect the fiefdom... or how the mini- Kings and Queens step out of their little fiefdom, and still want to rule the outside kingdom. I wish I was more observant or a better recorder of this. Like Mr. Graham was with his lunchroom map, because it is interesting... and while all the folks see what is going on, no one actually does much about it.

There are many examples where something will happen that is not productive and the response is "that is how she is." As if the fact that someone with a conniving personality... gives them the freedom to be petty. But when it is said -- we all nod.










also it is funny you mentioned wearing the logo of a sports team --- I was going to make that same point


----------



## PCP

manatee said:


> ....
> Just as people wear hats & shirts & jackets with their favorite team's logo. It's a way of joining a particular group we like. We all do it, it's hardwired into our primate brains. I think that's what's attractive about the pirate mystique. They represent the first time in modern history that Europeans could be free men, choosing their work, comrades and leaders. It's a way of thumbing your nose or flipping the finger at "The Man".
> 
> "Take what you can....give nothing back." Sail on, my Brethren of the Coast!


There have been a lo of those free man that chose their leaders and not only on the sea: any criminal gang does that and not only in Europe. Look at Al Capone for instance. I bet that many flipped their finger to him and he was "the Man" for many. Italian Mafia too.

In Europe we had that kind of freedom from millenniums and many Outlaws joined in parties with chiefs they respected to "take what you can...and give nothing back". I believe that in English they called them "highwaymen" (also land pirates or bandits) and they had been around forever. Anti-Social creatures that lived from plunder and murderer. Here you have a list from the XVII to XIX but they had been around since before biblical times.






In fact when Portuguese arrived to China (XVI century) they become popular and managed to have good relations with the Chinese empire because they effectively managed to ride them of pirates that were organized in true Armadas. Nothing new about pirates regarding XVIII and XIX century.

Some interesting information about the subject:

*
"The word pirate is from the Greek for "one who attacks"..... ministers have based sermons on the symbolism of the line "Yea though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I shall fear no evil", but it's actually not symbolic at all. It's an actual place, a narrow pass between two huge mesas in the Israeli desert that's in shadow for hours each day, but it's also the only way to get from one side to the other. Because it's dark whenever it's not high noon or a little before or after, bandits (land pirates) used to lurk there to attack caravans and travelers, so it was a very real "evil" people had to fear and not a metaphorical one.

..In the ancient world. (Julius Caesar was kidnapped by pirates as a kid and sold to their comrades on land who were basically allied land pirates; they ransomed him, his family paid the ransom, and Caesar returned with an army and crucified them;

.. Pompey declared war on bandits and pirates on land and on sea all over the Roman world because they had become more threatening than foreign armies.

The first war America ever fought was against Islamic pirates in the Mediteranean including at their land bases in Tripoli in Lebanon. Most of the fighting was done by the newly formed marine corps, hence the line from their anthem "...to the shores of Tripoli/we will fight our countries battles/on the land and on the sea". "*

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080421010401AACQ2E1

The only thing Europeans don't have regarding pirates is the romanticized image some Americans now seem to have about them.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## manatee

titustiger27 said:


> *I'm starting to think YOU are Paul Graham!! ;-)*
> 
> No, just a fan. Something on another thread reminded me that it's been a while since I read any of his stuff, & some of it seemed to fit here.
> 
> {snip}
> 
> 
> 
> As far as teachers go.... each classroom is a fiefdom.. and it is interesting to see the little wars that go on to protect the fiefdom... or how the mini- Kings and Queens step out of their little fiefdom, and still want to rule the outside kingdom. I wish I was more observant or a better recorder of this. Like Mr. Graham was with his lunchroom map, because it is interesting... and while all the folks see what is going on, no one actually does much about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Take notes, you never know when it might be useful. You may decide to write a series of comic short stories in a school setting (changing the names to protect the guilty, of course.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many examples where something will happen that is not productive and the response is "that is how she is." As if the fact that someone with a conniving personality... gives them the freedom to be petty. But when it is said -- we all nod.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've gotten into some...interesting...discussions, and an occasional bit of trouble, by questioning the wisdom of not calling someone out on their objectionable behavior. There's a lot of "Don't rock the boat." involved there.
> 
> "I would fain say something... about your condition, especially your outward condition or circumstances in this world, in this town, what it is, whether it is necessary that it be as bad as it is, whether it cannot
> be improved as well as not. " Henry Thoreau, "Walden"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also it is funny you mentioned wearing the logo of a sports team --- I was going to make that same point
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your comment about flying the Oracle Pirate Flag made me think of it. Wonder if we could design one incorporating their logo & some Jolly-Roger-ish iconography. Know anyone good with GIMP or Photoshop?
Click to expand...


----------



## Minnesail

manatee said:


> Your comment about flying the Oracle Pirate Flag made me think of it. Wonder if we could design one incorporating their logo & some Jolly-Roger-ish iconography. Know anyone good with GIMP or Photoshop?


Short notice, but here you go:


----------



## titustiger27

manatee said:


> No, just a fan. Something on another thread reminded me that it's been a while since I read any of his stuff, & some of it seemed to fit here.
> 
> {snip}


Sort of becoming a fan myself.. I wish he was a little more succinct though.



manatee said:


> Take notes, you never know when it might be useful. You may decide to write a series of comic short stories in a school setting (changing the names to protect the guilty, of course.)


I was just discussing this with a friend I am staying with. I do sort of keep notes in letters and e-mails / or forums, but it isn't as simple as that. For one I like complaining -- venting -- then letting go... I don't really want to hold the stupidity of my job for much longer.

I used to write audience participation murder mysteries ---- if I was mad at someone (say an ex-girlfriend) I would make them the victim and give the reason for the murder - her worse traits



manatee said:


> I've gotten into some...interesting...discussions, and an occasional bit of trouble, by questioning the wisdom of not calling someone out on their objectionable behavior. There's a lot of "Don't rock the boat." involved there.


I think it people should do it more often, but I understand the complexity. I have had the problem in other forums where the jerk would be a jerk... so I would snip at him... then it went south... and none of the old timers would call out the jerk, because he was an old timer or : "We know he's an idiot, but he's our idiot."



manatee said:


> Your comment about flying the Oracle Pirate Flag made me think of it. Wonder if we could design one incorporating their logo & some Jolly-Roger-ish iconography. Know anyone good with GIMP or Photoshop?


I am sure you could do a one off... I might play around with Acorn (paint program for Mac


----------



## ncsailor

I fly one all the time and don't care.


----------



## captain jack

JonEisberg said:


> Nah, I think I got the point...
> 
> Hollywood actors/celebrities leveraging their fame to enter the political arena, or attempt to influence public policy, is _BAD_...
> 
> Well, _SOMETIMES_...
> 
> All depends upon which team they're playing for, of course...


point taken. although, Ragan was a president; not a random actor trying to influence politicians. Also, being the head of the NRA is an official position in an organization. it's not quite the same as some actor throwing their weight around, as an individual. we can all belong to organizations like the NRA. he just also happened to be an actor. all members of the NRA have worked to preserve the 2nd amendment. but i won't refute your point. i will admit, i am only concerned about 'stars' using their star power to influence government when they do so to destroy liberty. how did it go? give me liberty or give me death.


----------



## captain jack

PCP said:


> There have been a lo of those free man that chose their leaders and not only on the sea: any criminal gang does that and not only in Europe. Look at Al Capone for instance. I bet that many flipped their finger to him and he was "the Man" for many. Italian Mafia too.
> 
> In Europe we had that kind of freedom from millenniums and many Outlaws joined in parties with chiefs they respected to "take what you can...and give nothing back". I believe that in English they called them "highwaymen" (also land pirates or bandits) and they had been around forever. Anti-Social creatures that lived from plunder and murderer. Here you have a list from the XVII to XIX but they had been around since before biblical times.
> 
> List of highwaymen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> In fact when Portuguese arrived to China (XVI century) they become popular and managed to have good relations with the Chinese empire because they effectively managed to ride them of pirates that were organized in true Armadas. Nothing new about pirates regarding XVIII and XIX century.
> 
> Some interesting information about the subject:
> 
> *
> "The word pirate is from the Greek for "one who attacks"..... ministers have based sermons on the symbolism of the line "Yea though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I shall fear no evil", but it's actually not symbolic at all. It's an actual place, a narrow pass between two huge mesas in the Israeli desert that's in shadow for hours each day, but it's also the only way to get from one side to the other. Because it's dark whenever it's not high noon or a little before or after, bandits (land pirates) used to lurk there to attack caravans and travelers, so it was a very real "evil" people had to fear and not a metaphorical one.
> 
> ..In the ancient world. (Julius Caesar was kidnapped by pirates as a kid and sold to their comrades on land who were basically allied land pirates; they ransomed him, his family paid the ransom, and Caesar returned with an army and crucified them;
> 
> .. Pompey declared war on bandits and pirates on land and on sea all over the Roman world because they had become more threatening than foreign armies.
> 
> The first war America ever fought was against Islamic pirates in the Mediteranean including at their land bases in Tripoli in Lebanon. Most of the fighting was done by the newly formed marine corps, hence the line from their anthem "...to the shores of Tripoli/we will fight our countries battles/on the land and on the sea". "*
> 
> Were there land based pirates? - Yahoo Answers
> 
> The only thing Europeans don't have regarding pirates is the romanticized image some Americans now seem to have about them.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


since england didn't recognize our sovereignty, our privateers were considered pirates. pirates helped us win our independence. there is very little difference, really, between a pirate and a privateer; just a piece of paper. as a nation that got it's start by flipping our collective finger at the Brittish empire and chose our own leaders and rules, we tend to look on pirates a little differently.


----------



## randyrhines

Yea tho walk thru the valley of the shadow of death, is also a spiritual representation of thee "Your" eternal being, spiritual awareness, conscience, and reality, a soul dwelling in, and "walking" (passing thru) a temporary fleshly body that inevitably , will perish, because it was corrupted from its original perfection, leaving the Spirit, still fully aware and alive eternally. " I fear no evil" Knowing the end from the beginning Accepting , "In Faith" Christ sacrifice. Being free at last of the sinful weakened flesh "I fear no evil" meaning "I respect no evil nor its affects any longer, having been transformed and resurrected thru Christ forever.......
I dont think im gonna fly the jolly anymore..........


----------



## randyrhines

captain jack said:


> since england didn't recognize our sovereignty, our privateers were considered pirates. pirates helped us win our independence. there is very little difference, really, between a pirate and a privateer; just a piece of paper. as a nation that got it's start by flipping our collective finger at the Brittish empire and chose our own leaders and rules, we tend to look on pirates a little differently.


I think Capt. Jack Sparrow struggled with that resurrection issue himself , being found lacking, even holly-wood couldn't quite restore the old salt to his former glory,


----------



## manatee

PCP said:


> {snip}
> In Europe we had that kind of freedom from millenniums and many Outlaws joined in parties with chiefs they respected to "take what you can...and give nothing back". I believe that in English they called them "highwaymen" (also land pirates or bandits) and they had been around forever. Anti-Social creatures that lived from plunder and murderer. Here you have a list from the XVII to XIX but they had been around since before biblical times.


A good number of them were mercenaries in the interminable wars, and plunder was the only way they got paid, especially in the occasional outbreaks of peace.



> In fact when Portuguese arrived to China (XVI century) they become popular and managed to have good relations with the Chinese empire because they effectively managed to ride them of pirates that were organized in true Armadas. Nothing new about pirates regarding XVIII and XIX century.


Interesting - I did not know that about the pirates, thanks, Paulo. I really need to read more on Portuguese history; I knew in a general way they were top dog for a while, but no details.


> The only thing Europeans don't have regarding pirates is the romanticized image some Americans seem to have about them.


And yet the first two great works of European literature are about pirates. I'm sure that to the Trojans the Greek armies under Agamemnon were nothing more than the largest fleet of pirates ever seen. The Odyssey has Odysseus and his crew sacking cities and selling their inhabitants into slavery as they try to get home to Ithaka.

Not all Europeans lack the "romanticised image some Americans seem to have about them": from the quintessential pirate novel, "Treasure Island":

" TO THE HESITATING PURCHASER

If sailor tales to sailor tunes,
Storm and adventure, heat and cold,
If schooners, islands, and maroons
And Buccaneers and buried Gold,
*And all the old romance, retold
Exactly in the ancient way,
Can please, as me they pleased of old,*
The wiser youngsters of to-day:
So be it, and fall on! If not,
If studious youth no longer crave,
His ancient appetites forgot,
Kingston, or Ballantyne the brave,
Or Cooper of the wood and wave:
So be it, also! And may I
And all my pirates share the grave
Where these and their creations lie! "

Until relatively recently piracy was a semi-honorable trade, as long as you attacked some other country's ships & towns. Just as some of the highwaymen in the list were English Loyalists in the American Revolution for Independence, some pirates operated as privateers under letters of marque from their governments.

Italian/English authorRafael Sabatini wrote some terrific pirate novels.

...and Hollywood has been making terrific movies about pirates since the days of the old silent black-and-white films.


----------



## manatee

Minnesail said:


> Short notice, but here you go:


Outstanding!

Should you put some kind of 'fair use' clause with that, to protect you from the legalized pirates we call lawyers?


----------



## manatee

captain jack said:


> since england didn't recognize our sovereignty, our privateers were considered pirates. pirates helped us win our independence. there is very little difference, really, between a pirate and a privateer; just a piece of paper. as a nation that got it's start by flipping our collective finger at the Brittish empire and chose our own leaders and rules, we tend to look on pirates a little differently.


...and more affectionately. 

Well said, Captain Jack.


----------



## titustiger27

Here is my try


----------



## manatee

titustiger27 said:


> Here is my try


NICE! You guys are fast!

Know anyone in the silk-screen business?

O-T: what Mac do you have? All I have is this phone, & it takes forever to type more than a few words. Really would like to get back to a machine I can run Linux on. If necessary. OS-X might be fine.


----------



## captain jack

randyrhines said:


> I think Capt. Jack Sparrow struggled with that resurrection issue himself , being found lacking, even holly-wood couldn't quite restore the old salt to his former glory,


the first movie was really pretty good. it had a lot of that old fashioned swashbuckling adventure. i didn't even mind the whole dead pirates sailing thing. i like fantasy and sci fi and horror but i do think the movie would have worked just as good if it had not had that fantasy/horror element. captain jack sparrow was the best character. however, i think they veered off into left field with the following two movies and lost that classic feel. it's a real shame. such promise wasted. they should have left it at the one movie. i think, for most movies, there is a magick formula that makes good entertainment. you can't lose that formula in successive movies without ruining the story.


----------



## titustiger27

manatee said:


> NICE! You guys are fast!
> 
> Know anyone in the silk-screen business?
> 
> O-T: what Mac do you have? All I have is this phone, & it takes forever to type more than a few words. Really would like to get back to a machine I can run Linux on. If necessary. OS-X might be fine.


I've owned Macs since 1987. I am on vacation and I have a mac book (os 10.6) I have a desk top that is god awful slow that is about 10 years old... and one I got about two years ago that has (10.7)

I think the mac OS operating systems are based on Linux, but I thought you could do linux on any machine


----------



## titustiger27

ncsailor said:


> I fly one all the time and don't care.


first post ! welcome aboard


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> point taken. although, Ragan was a president; not a random actor trying to influence politicians. Also, being the head of the NRA is an official position in an organization. it's not quite the same as some actor throwing their weight around, as an individual. we can all belong to organizations like the NRA. he just also happened to be an actor. all members of the NRA have worked to preserve the 2nd amendment. but i won't refute your point. i will admit, i am only concerned about 'stars' using their star power to influence government when they do so to destroy liberty. how did it go? give me liberty or give me death.


Then wouldn't it be the same for Mr. Clooney, who I have heard was involved with politics, possibly an activist and maybe even a member of a council even if he didn't hold up a gun...



> Clooney is also noted for his political activism and has served as one of the United Nations Messengers of Peace since January 31, 2008.
> 
> Clooney's humanitarian work includes his advocacy of finding a resolution for the Darfur conflict, raising funds for the 2010 Haiti earthquake, 2004 Tsunami, and 9/11 victims, and creating documentaries such as Sand and Sorrow to raise awareness about international crises. He is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.


----------



## randyrhines

captain jack said:


> the first movie was really pretty good. it had a lot of that old fashioned swashbuckling adventure. i didn't even mind the whole dead pirates sailing thing. i like fantasy and sci fi and horror but i do think the movie would have worked just as good if it had not had that fantasy/horror element. captain jack sparrow was the best character. however, i think they veered off into left field with the following two movies and lost that classic feel. it's a real shame. such promise wasted. they should have left it at the one movie. i think, for most movies, there is a magick formula that makes good entertainment. you can't lose that formula in successive movies without ruining the story.


The best sequel sailing movie I could imagine would be.....
1. Master and commander II 
2. Captain cook movie based on real docs!
3. Vikings riding reindeer in Labrador....

It's just really hard for me when my boats on the hard in the winter, so I might a fell down abit on my last choice....


----------



## manatee

titustiger27 said:


> I've owned Macs since 1987. I am on vacation and I have a mac book (os 10.6) I have a desk top that is god awful slow that is about 10 years old... and one I got about two years ago that has (10.7)
> 
> I think the mac OS operating systems are based on Linux, but I thought you could do linux on any machine


Linux will run on machines most people would throw out as too old to bother with.

From the little I've read, OS X is a flavor of Unix based on NeXTSTEP, which has its roots in NetBSD & FreeBSD, two very strong Unix variants. Anything later than OS X 10.5 is Unix-compliant, so most of what I've learned with Linux should work. I don't know if the tools I'm used to are there. I'd probably set up a dual-boot system to use while learning the OS X.


----------



## manatee

randyrhines said:


> The best sequel sailing movie I could imagine would be.....
> 1. Master and commander II
> 2. Captain cook movie based on real docs!
> 3. Vikings riding reindeer in Labrador....
> 
> It's just really hard for me when my boats on the hard in the winter, so I might a fell down abit on my last choice....


There was a documentary a while back that covers at least part of #2, following an exact replica of Endeavour from the east coast of Australia to Jakarta, Indonesia:

The Ship (TV Mini-Series 2002) - IMDb

You need to watch some of the old "Adventures In Paradise" to thaw out.


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> Then wouldn't it be the same for Mr. Clooney, who I have heard was involved with politics, possibly an activist and maybe even a member of a council even if he didn't hold up a gun...


as i said, clooney was given as a random example....at least as far as i know. despite his outspoken liberal views, i am unaware of anything important ( as far as the running of this country and constitutional rights ) he has tried to use his celebrity to influence. he has been an activists but i am only aware of his efforts for Darfur so, i really have no beef with him. if celebrities want to champion tird world issues, that's fine by me. when i have issue is hen they throw their celebrity standing in support of socialist agendas or destruction of rights.

stallone would have been a better choice or maybe shania twain


----------



## titustiger27

manatee said:


> Linux will run on machines most people would throw out as too old to bother with.
> 
> From the little I've read, OS X is a flavor of Unix based on NeXTSTEP, which has its roots in NetBSD & FreeBSD, two very strong Unix variants. Anything later than OS X 10.5 is Unix-compliant, so most of what I've learned with Linux should work. I don't know if the tools I'm used to are there. I'd probably set up a dual-boot system to use while learning the OS X.


Maybe I got Linux confused with Unix.

I am pretty sure GIMP is still around... There is another one for word processing. I tried them with OS, but was not impressed. I would guess they work better with Linux.

And as you suggested --- in the end --- better than reading and responding to a forum with a phone


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> as i said, clooney was given as a random example....at least as far as i know. despite his outspoken liberal views, i am unaware of anything important ( as far as the running of this country and constitutional rights ) he has tried to use his celebrity to influence. he has been an activists but i am only aware of his efforts for Darfur so, i really have no beef with him. if celebrities want to champion tird world issues, that's fine by me. when i have issue is hen they throw their celebrity standing in support of socialist agendas or destruction of rights.
> 
> stallone would have been a better choice or maybe shania twain


But not Arnold Schwarzenegger

Actually I am not sure which actors are involved in some form of politics. Like I mentioned Clint Eastwood and his chair... but I remember he was a mayor at one point. I think other actors may also have been involved in different level of politics -- like with the Union.

And really once someone starts lobbying politicians --- though not an elected official --- they are part of politics... Not sure where you would draw the line though. For example I have written letters to my congressmen and women...

I wouldn't call myself a politician.


----------



## PCP

titustiger27 said:


> Here is my try


Humm, the message that transmit to me is : death to the America's cup trimarans!!!!! leading me to suppose you would very much prefer the slow monohulls.

Maybe it is not the case and you absolutely love those fast tri's and think they were the best thing it happen to the America's cup but that is not the message that I receive and I believe that I would not be the only one to interpret it that way.

Regards

paulo


----------



## JonEisberg

captain jack said:


> as i said, clooney was given as a random example....at least as far as i know. despite his outspoken liberal views, i am unaware of anything important ( as far as the running of this country and constitutional rights ) he has tried to use his celebrity to influence. he has been an activists but i am only aware of his efforts for Darfur so, i really have no beef with him. if celebrities want to champion tird world issues, that's fine by me. when i have issue is hen they throw their celebrity standing in support of socialist agendas or destruction of rights.
> 
> stallone would have been a better choice or maybe shania twain


_SLY STALLONE_ is renowned for his Political Activism??? Damn, who knew?

Pretty amusing to see all this hand-wringing over Hollywood celebrities "throwing their weight around", when it's guys like this - and our obscenely corrupt system of campaign finance - who pose a _FAR GREATER_ threat to our democracy...










Sheldon Adelson Spent $150 Million on Election - US News and World Report


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> But not Arnold Schwarzenegger
> 
> Actually I am not sure which actors are involved in some form of politics. Like I mentioned Clint Eastwood and his chair... but I remember he was a mayor at one point. I think other actors may also have been involved in different level of politics -- like with the Union.
> 
> And really once someone starts lobbying politicians --- though not an elected official --- they are part of politics... Not sure where you would draw the line though. For example I have written letters to my congressmen and women...
> 
> I wouldn't call myself a politician.


i would draw the line at elected official. if you are not an elected official, you may be involved in politics and trying to influence the course of events but, you are not a politician.


----------



## captain jack

JonEisberg said:


> _SLY STALLONE_ is renowned for his Political Activism??? Damn, who knew?
> 
> Pretty amusing to see all this hand-wringing over Hollywood celebrities "throwing their weight around", when it's guys like this - and our obscenely corrupt system of campaign finance - who pose a _FAR GREATER_ threat to our democracy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sheldon Adelson Spent $150 Million on Election - US News and World Report


you're right. corruption, illegal financial influence, and fraud exist on both sides of the political battlefield. heck, dead people have been voting demacrat, in baltimore, for years. it's actually gotten to be sort of a joke, here, in maryland. the political scene, in America, is totally in need of an overhaul.

as you are aware, though, the political element was only an example in a completely unrelated, bigger idea. however, the example has taken on a life of it's own, as such examples often do. it's very funny how threads can meander all over the place.

taken as a whole, although threads are the input of many minds and not just one, they usually have a real 'stream of consciousness ' feel to them. it's very fascinating. of course, thinking about it, discussions between people that have a lot of different interests, and a varied background, can also twist and turn all over the map. those are always the most interesting discussions... as long as civility is maintained.


----------



## Minnesail

manatee said:


> NICE! You guys are fast!
> 
> Know anyone in the silk-screen business?
> 
> O-T: what Mac do you have? All I have is this phone, & it takes forever to type more than a few words. Really would like to get back to a machine I can run Linux on. If necessary. OS-X might be fine.


At home I have a MacBook Pro circa 2008. It still works great and has plenty of power to run the Adobe Creative Cloud suit of applications (Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator, etc.).

At work I have a Mac Pro (the tower) and I also run CentOS Linux on in VirtualBox. VirtualBox is a very slick application lets you run multiple virtual machines inside the Mac OS. Right now I have a Linux server and a Linux client running on my Mac, to the network and everything else it looks like I have three computers running here.

And to tie it all in to sailing, VirtualBox is made by...

...Oracle!


----------



## randyrhines

*Re: Is flying a pirate flag lame? consult sailnet...*

In order to stay on topic, 
Last night i dreamt our ketch broke free of the water thrown upwards by a huge wave. As i looked up from the cockpit , to find we were sailing amongst the stars in space, being pushed along now by the solar winds. I checked the wheel for steerage, and found it was much more sensitive to my inputs, sail-trim was good and all seemed well and good. We were moving along at a full 7.5 knotaleems. I turned on my nav lights an checked them , they shone beautifully against the dark expanse of space. Off the port beam in the distance, i noticed some activity, a meteor shower. Man what a light show! I instinctively set a course for the Bra'dors of Breton, just south of Labradorient Lateral. We have friends there in the Province of Preserved Minds. So we will pay them a visit. Joni radioed Royan our friend and his son Sailor Extradinaire, Danaughty of The Bretons.
The solar winds can be tricky there and we would need their help to make safe landfall. Sure enough with our friends in sight the atmospheric winds began to overpower our hull, letting fly the sheets we were still were loosing way. Quick thinking Royan fired a tagline arrow, A beautiful shot ,snagging the forward starboard shroud. Dove began to yield but the wind current was too strong and started dragging Danaughty along behind us. With no choice he cut the line. As we gained altitude once again, we waved goodbye. I reached for the transmitter mike and transmitted our final message to them for this year. Happy New Year my good friends, and to all of You as well! As we then passed into the solar currents once again, Joni Beauteous La Gorgeous trimmed the sheets and I set the course for the Constellation of Lions Head, our home port, now visible some 120 knotaleems in the distance. As i considered what flag to fly upon waking or docking, I decided i should consult sailnet for some informed expert opinion.......I some how wondered in the moments of twilight thots between waking and sleep if it is considered Lame to fly The Jolly Roger?


----------



## CLOSECALL

Yes.


----------



## Minnewaska

Campaign finance, political influence of celebrities? What in the world does this have to do with lame pirate flags? Lame, lame, lame. I'll defend you're right to fly one, but most agree you're lame. Pirate flag avatars are lame too. 

Just trying to draw fire to get this back on topic.


----------



## randyrhines

*Re: Is flying a pirate flag lame? while provoking other sailors*



Minnewaska said:


> Campaign finance, political influence of celebrities? What in the world does this have to do with lame pirate flags? Lame, lame, lame. I'll defend you're right to fly one, but most agree you're lame. Pirate flag avatars are lame too.
> 
> Just trying to draw fire to get this back on topic.


Stand by Minnewaska: We just made a successful bid on a used cannon, please move to the forward deck of your boat and wave your brightest lifejacket, turn around three times click your sperry's together, and keep repeating, "if i was bald, i dont need a comb"..........


----------



## NorthernPilgrim

I guess I do consider it a bit lame, yes, but I have known some sailors who fly them. Some people get riled about the rape and murder thing, but, since Hollywood's Jolly Roger is most often seen on cheesy tour boats, and most rapists, murderers and pirates don't fly it, I would think it pretty harmless.


----------



## captain jack

Minnewaska said:


> Campaign finance, political influence of celebrities? What in the world does this have to do with lame pirate flags? Lame, lame, lame. I'll defend you're right to fly one, but most agree you're lame. Pirate flag avatars are lame too.
> 
> Just trying to draw fire to get this back on topic.


:laugher

one thing this post accomplished. it increased the number of jolly roger avatars...although, for my part, this thread wasn't the actual motivation for me to adopt ye old jolly roger as my avatar.


----------



## manatee

Minnewaska said:


> Campaign finance, political influence of celebrities? What in the world does this have to do with lame pirate flags? Lame, lame, lame. I'll defend you're right to fly one, but most agree you're lame. Pirate flag avatars are lame too.
> 
> Just trying to draw fire to get this back on topic.


You left out computers and operating systems... 



Minnesail said:


> At home I have a MacBook Pro circa 2008. It still works great and has plenty of power to run the Adobe Creative Cloud suit of applications (Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator, etc.).
> 
> At work I have a Mac Pro (the tower) and I also run CentOS Linux on in VirtualBox. VirtualBox is a very slick application lets you run multiple virtual machines inside the
> Mac OS. Right now I have a Linux server and a Linux client running on my Mac, to the network and everything else it looks like I have three computers running here.


Do you have 3 big flatscreen monitors, too? Sounds like a sweet setup. I haven't tried CentOS Linux. What drew you to it? I'd used Debian for a while (few years), and was just starting to study Slackware when lightning fried everything. (I'm a fan of the command line - it's just so much more versatile & powerful than the GUIs.)

 No, I didn't forget...


Minnesail said:


> And to tie it all in to sailing,VirtualBox is made by...
> 
> ...Oracle!


----------



## Minnesail

Minnewaska said:


> Manatee, where did the latter two quotes come from? I never wrote them.
> 
> Edit: I notice they are from Minnesail. Please edit. Thanks.


Note to self: Next time you sign up for an online service try not to nearly duplicate the screen name of one of the services most prolific posters.

In my defense, I live in the Minnehaha Falls neighborhood of the city of Minneapolis in the state of Minnesota. And "Minne" means water, so...


----------



## Minnesail

manatee said:


> Do you have 3 big flatscreen monitors, too? Sounds like a sweet setup. I haven't tried CentOS Linux. What drew you to it? I'd used Debian for a while (few years), and was just starting to study Slackware when lightning fried everything. (I'm a fan of the command line - it's just so much more versatile & powerful than the GUIs.)


Just two 24-inchers 

CentOS is a very popular version of Red Hat. It's community supported instead of through a contract with Red Hat. I am just dabbling with it at the moment, considering future implementation.

OS X is based on FreeBSD Unix and if you are comfortable with a Linux command line you would be comfortable with OS X's command line. I mostly use the GUI, but maybe once a day there'll be some little task where the command line is much handier.

To try to make this sailing related, here's a picture of the late Steve Jobs' yacht Venus:


----------



## therapy23

titustiger27 said:


> Yes... but part of my thought here is... unless you can remove yourself...totally... from society. *you are part of society.*
> 
> You can say you care less about Miley Cyrus, but really how do you avoid her, or conversation about her?
> 
> (Also and on tangent) I believe about 30 percent of the world is positive. 20 percent negative (often referred to as trolls on the internet) and 50 percent indifferent. and so often when you are (say) flying your freak flag or your jolly rogers, that 20 percent makes a point of criticizing you and it is made worse when the 50 percent doesn't say... "back off, let it be."


It is what troubles me the most. Daily.

I am normally a negative person but often just don't say anything anymore. It's an age thing now.

And your explanation also explains why there is so much political correctness about now. The small number of loud squeakers getting greased. I'd just assume choke them.


----------



## bljones




----------



## manatee

Minnewaska said:


> Manatee, where did the latter two quotes come from? I never wrote them.
> 
> Edit: I notice they are from Minnesail. Please edit. Thanks.


Done - sorry, my mistake.


----------



## manatee

Minnesail said:


> Just two 24-inchers
> 
> CentOS is a very popular version of Red Hat. It's community supported instead of through a contract with Red Hat. I am just dabbling with it at the moment, considering future implementation.
> 
> OS X is based on FreeBSD Unix and if you are comfortable with a Linux command line you would be comfortable with OS X's command line. I mostly use the GUI, but maybe once a day there'll be some little task where the command line is much handier.


Thanks for the info; I used Red Hat for a while, before they splintered. I like the sound of OS X, think I'll start checking pawn shops for Macs - maybe someone got a new box for Christmas.



> To try to make this sailing related, here's a picture of the late Steve Jobs' yacht Venus:


Yacht?!! I've seen condos smaller than that.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> Campaign finance, political influence of celebrities? What in the world does this have to do with lame pirate flags? Lame, lame, lame. I'll defend you're right to fly one, but most agree you're lame. Pirate flag avatars are lame too.
> 
> Just trying to draw fire to get this back on topic.


I guess I must not be 'most' I assume you have researched this, because it doesn't seem those in this thread add up to most.

What is the official 'not lame' avatar?

Edit: I have a feeling you are joking....


----------



## Minnewaska

manatee said:


> Done - sorry, my mistake.


Cheers, mate. I will delete my post. Thanks.


----------



## Minnewaska

titustiger27 said:


> I guess I must not be 'most' I assume you have researched this, because it doesn't seem those in this thread add up to most.


I asked three and got 100% lame. One was quite animated.



> What is the official 'not lame' avatar?


Mostly anything else. However, I have not found a spreader flag I'm willing to fly that I don't think is lame and I really want one. True story



> Edit: I have a feeling you are joking....


Cheers, mate. Mostly to stop the political likelihood the entire thread ended up banned to the dungeon.


----------



## Minnesail

Minnewaska said:


> Mostly to stop the political likelihood the entire thread ended up banned to the dungeon.


RON PAUL 2016

(Heh heh, sorry)


----------



## rgscpat

Have you ever heard of a politician actually sailing under the Jolly Roger? Now one could try to argue, that they are merely using a ruse de guerre by not flying their true colours. 

But, among politicians' boats, what are the most popular anchor choices? And have any of you observed politicians cheating on proper scope?


----------



## captain jack

rgscpat said:


> Have you ever heard of a politician actually sailing under the Jolly Roger? Now one could try to argue, that they are merely using a ruse de guerre by not flying their true colours.
> 
> But, among politicians' boats, what are the most popular anchor choices? And have any of you observed politicians cheating on proper scope?


politicians should fly a jolly roger. each should have their own design so you'd know who was coming to rob you and rape you.

cut throats and thieves, all of them be, says i. really bad eggs.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> I asked three and got 100% lame. One was quite animated.
> 
> Mostly anything else. However, I have not found a spreader flag I'm willing to fly that I don't think is lame and I really want one. True story
> 
> Cheers, mate. Mostly to stop the political likelihood the entire thread ended up banned to the dungeon.


Whoa dude.. I won't say you are judgemental or that your math skills are really in question.

But I will say on page one there were three 'not lame'

All were cool people sporting an avatar.

Kill all the threads and let Minnewaska separate them out

Putting a picture in your sig file is the new questionable procedure

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> politicians should fly a jolly roger. each should have their own design so you'd know who was coming to rob you and rape you.
> 
> cut throats and thieves, all of them be, says i. really bad eggs.


I believe pirates must have more honor than politicians, because clearly they show their true colors


----------



## randyrhines

manatee said:


> ...and more affectionately.
> 
> Well said, Captain Jack.


yes , yes , indeed very well said


----------



## randyrhines

*Re: Is flying a pirate flag lame? It dosent matter anymore....*



bljones said:


> Ferris says go home, its over - YouTube


Oh my its just so final......its over.... i think the thread might be over , i mean how important is this? When its called "Is flying the pirate flag lame?" thread. Well, that is pretty thin.......

Ferris is right! We have weighed in on the Pi-rat flag flying, spoke out about it, and ...Of what value, is there to add? Its over!So let it be said and Let it be done.
Are we not Sailors? Men of integrity, men of renoun? Have we not achieved great things? discovered worlds! Conquered Tyrants! that we should now be reduced to pettiness of such long forgotten debates? Let it not be so!
But let us redeem ourselves with much more creative and respectable subject.
Say... 
New lands discovery: It is the intention of this sailor to sail across Georgian bay to the 30,000 islands and claim those Islands for Canada. So the inhabitants of those islands, can be taxed by Prime Minister Harper or the next Prime Minister Justine Trudeau and there by reduce taxation on our fellow Canadian sailors. Im thinking with such a project we may be able to get funding for underprivileged sailors, expanding the fleet and our reach of course.....


----------



## randyrhines

Flags flying from a boat do say something.
It gives an impression or identifies the patriotism of the owner/skipper.
First impressions do mean alot.
They might be the pride you take in your Country of origin or its province or state as well.
They send a very general message, at least.
It is important what we put on our boats , even for fun.
And i think after reading all that is written here about it. The pirate flag or jolly roger, sends a mixed message, an unclear message, like Paulo said earlier, It could mean kids aboard, could mean green sailor living his dream, rebel on high seas, 
For me it was fun flying it for a season, but i think a bit juvenile out side of the Commercial pirate themed cruises, Of which i was a part of.


----------



## rgscpat

Would pirate-politicians, whether flying the Jolly Roger or not, 
prefer

a Danforth-style anchor, because they want holding power in mud, or 

a grapnel, for wrestling with other politicians? 

Or would members from one end of the political spectrum (democrat/labour/liberal/socialist) versus the other (republican/tory/conservative/monarchist) naturally have any opinions in the Rocna vs. Mantus anchor discussion and might this also be influenced by whether any of them have a mistress or pool boy on board, and by their professed religious convictions? 

Ultimately, what we're getting to, is which type of pirate flag would be most appropriate for, say, a go-fast stinkpot-driving Liberal established church MP with her boy toy with a Mantus on the bow versus an Alabama USA republican congressman (re-reformed extra-primitive southern baptist) with his secret lover on a large trawler yacht with a Rocna? 

And is flying the preferred pirate flag less lame if there are guns on board, and, if so, do cannon count? And is flying the Jolly Roger not lame for officials of the IRS or Inland Revenue or equivalent?

By the way -- do modern pirates still use paper treasure maps, or have they pretty much gone over to all electronic aids to pillage and theft?


----------



## captain jack

rgscpat said:


> Or would members from one end of the political spectrum (democrat/labour/liberal/socialist) versus the other (republican/tory/conservative/monarchist)


point of note: not sure how monarchist got listed in with republican. however, things are different in different countres. monarchist isn't even an option in the states. (of course, it's starting to look like fascism is.) in the US:

democrat and republican really are fluid terms. over the decades the policies of each have changed. however, at present in, their cooresponding values are as follows:

democrats:

big government, strong centralized power, executive branch power grabs, wealth redistribution, the welfare state, the military industrial complex, extreme government spending and high taxation, government control of industry, government meddling in the lives of the people, limitation of constitutional rights

thus, your breakdown should look like this: (democrat/liberal/progressive/socialist/marxist/fascist/monarchy)

republicans are a more difficult thing to pin down. there are the 'rhinos' of the long term republicans in government and the 'tea party' republicans which represent actual republican values. the 'rhinos' are not really any different than the democrats. McCain and Romney are both examples of this. it should be remembered that Obamacare is based on Romneycare. in defining republicans, therefore, i will choose to define the republicans that support republican values. thus:

republicans:

small government, limited government, states rights over federal power, lower taxation, true capitalism ( in contrast to the 'croney capitalism' we have engaged in for decades ), constitutional rights, and ( unfortunately ) forcing christian ideals and religion on everyone

thus your breakdown would look like this:

(republican/conservative/capitalist/tea party/small government/christian right)

thankfully, there is a thrid opton that is grwing in power. libertarians. they support constitutional freedoms and capitalism. they hold the constitution over all other inerests and love liberty, extremely limmited government, and the rights of the people. that breakdown would look like this:

(libertarian, constitutionalist, capitalist, jeffersonian)

Thomas Jefferson would have been a libertarian, if he were to live, today. as a libertarian, i think, if you want to fly a pirate flag you should feel free to do so because it's not my place to tell you what to do.


----------



## Minnesail

captain jack said:


> Thomas Jefferson would have been a libertarian, if he were to live, today.


I'm a big fan of Jefferson, despite his flaws, and I think you're mistaken about his politics. Ol' TJ was in favor of an active government, taxing the rich, and keeping churches on the sideline. I think most modern tea partiers would find his politics reprehensible.

And..... this whole thread gets sent to the ban area.....

Sorry. My bad.

I'm going to post my Photoshop of the helo-Valiant again just to lighten the mood:


----------



## randyrhines

Minnesail said:


> I'm a big fan of Jefferson, despite his flaws, and I think you're mistaken about his politics. Ol' TJ was in favor of an active government, taxing the rich, and keeping churches on the sideline. I think most modern tea partiers would find his politics reprehensible.
> 
> And..... this whole thread gets sent to the ban area.....
> 
> Sorry. My bad.
> 
> I'm going to post my Photoshop of the helo-Valiant again just to lighten the mood:
> Must be pretty windy and noisy under the rotor wash, but nuthin a good solid dodger /bimi cant fix.....heh heh......


----------



## Andrew65

Allanbc said:


> Flying the Jolly Roger is OK only if you have a large crew of scantily clad busty wenches.


If so, would you really want to advertise it or keep it to yourself? I know they`d be advertising themselves when changing head sails, but no need to Call in the Wolves.


----------



## titustiger27

randyrhines said:


> Flags flying from a boat do say something.
> It gives an impression or identifies the patriotism of the owner/skipper.
> First impressions do mean alot.
> They might be the pride you take in your Country of origin or its province or state as well.
> They send a very general message, at least.
> It is important what we put on our boats , even for fun.
> And i think after reading all that is written here about it. The pirate flag or jolly roger, sends a mixed message, an unclear message, like Paulo said earlier, It could mean kids aboard, could mean green sailor living his dream, rebel on high seas,
> For me it was fun flying it for a season, but i think a bit juvenile out side of the Commercial pirate themed cruises, Of which i was a part of.


I think it can be somewhat juvenile, but I don't think

Juvenile = Lame

I know there is a neighbor to my friend who flies a 'don't tread on me' flag. Which I think of a certain political party that I think don't think. Or that they don't care about facts, only what they want.

I make a judgement on that baggage of mine. Just as those that think a pirate flag is lame --- do so more because of their baggage, not that of the flag waver.

I don't think a person's baggage is bad or wrong / per say. I believe people judgement of a nazi flag is probably more lock step (play upon word baggage intended) and not thinking of Buddhism Swastika - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## Andrew65

cb32863 said:


> So another seemingly innocent post on SailNet gets twisted around in to a political argument. The original post is now completely lost. Time to move this one to off topic..... Why does this happen all the time here??


LMFAO! As I was reading the posts before Yours this thought came to mind, but you beat me to the comment. I was thinking, "Geez, the OP just asked about flying a little pirate flag and now this". :laugher

If you want to make a statement, fly the american flag upside Down to see how many comments you generate.


----------



## captain jack

Minnesail said:


> I'm a big fan of Jefferson, despite his flaws, and I think you're mistaken about his politics. Ol' TJ was in favor of an active government, taxing the rich, and keeping churches on the sideline. I think most modern tea partiers would find his politics reprehensible.


 i agree. the tea part would have disagreed with him in a lot of places, especially keeping church out of government. but i never said he'd be a tea party republican. i said he'd be a libertarian.http://http://political-economy.com/thomas-jefferson-on-taxes/

you can actually read all of his writings, on-line, for free. brilliant man with so many big accomplishments. he, and his collegues, make the movers and shakers of our time look small time, in the scope of their historical influence.

final words about that, from me, though. sorry


----------



## captain jack

Andrew65 said:


> LMFAO! As I was reading the posts before Yours this thought came to mind, but you beat me to the comment. I was thinking, "Geez, the OP just asked about flying a little pirate flag and now this". :laugher
> 
> If you want to make a statement, fly the american flag upside Down to see how many comments you generate.


how about flying the pirate flag upside down? or, instead of flying a pirate flag, how about a mr yuck flag? remember mr yuck? when i was a kid, they thught the death's head wasn't a good enough sign for poison so they started using the mr yuck. i heven't noticed if they still use mr yuck or not. but how about a mr yuck flag?.

mr yuck is green. mr yuck is mean.


----------



## captain jack

Minnesail said:


> I'm going to post my Photoshop of the helo-Valiant again just to lighten the mood:


do you mind if i save that picture on my computer? it's pretty cool.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> do you mind if i save that picture on my computer? it's pretty cool.


You are Captain Jack....

Do you really need to ask?

​
_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## Andrew65

Flying the pirate flag upside down would be an interestng statement to symbolize anarchy within anarchy for sure. 

This thread has gone to Mars and back and has been very interestingly and humorously perverted in many ways to such a simple question by a admitted new sailor, but, with all due respect to everyones postings, I think I will continue flying my spongebob squarepants pirate flag just to piss off you and Paulo.:-D


----------



## manatee

Andrew65 said:


> Flying the pirate flag upside down would be an interestng statement to symbolize anarchy within anarchy for sure.
> 
> This thread has gone to Mars and back and has been very interestingly and humorously perverted in many ways to such a simple question by a admitted new sailor, but, with all due respect to everyones postings, I think I will continue flying my *spongebob squarepants pirate flag* just to piss off you and Paulo.:-D


I haven't seen that one -- what does it look like?


----------



## Andrew65

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...L7B-Zyk6DB9GC8_5AWcW-545-oPwRi5M1hH8CGXJJNvjo


----------



## manatee

> Originally Postedby cb32863: So another seemingly innocent post on SailNet getstwisted around in to a political argument. The original post is now completely lost. Time to move this one to off topic..... Why does this happen all the time here??


Because we're not a bunch of single-minded drones, but more a bunch of buddies BSing over brews at a bar.


----------



## manatee

Andrew65 said:


> https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...L7B-Zyk6DB9GC8_5AWcW-545-oPwRi5M1hH8CGXJJNvjo


That's great! If I saw that flying, I'd *know* the owner had a sense of humor.


----------



## PCP

Andrew65 said:


> ...
> This thread has gone to Mars and back and has been very interestingly and humorously perverted in many ways to such a simple question by a admitted new sailor, but, with all due respect to everyones postings, I think I will continue flying my spongebob squarepants pirate flag just to piss off you and Paulo.:-D


You don't piss me at all. Things are what they are and people fly the symbols that are identified with.

I, and many like me associate a pirate flag on a boat with....well, I guess you know by now. I don't care if others fly them, provided that nobody wants to fly one in my boat. For me they just don't stand for nothing I want to be associated with

Regards

Paulo


----------



## Andrew65

Fair enough, well said Paulo.

Sorry to let you down a bit there manatee, but it was meant as a joke to prod Captain Jack and the way too serious Paulo. I think flying a pirate flag is lame to answer the OP`s initial question, but if there were kids onboard having fun and it was appropriate to fly one, I`d try to have the biggest and most artistically creative one to fly for them in the name of fun, but then again, it all Depends on the spirit of the person behind the boat it is on.

If you want to make a statement for flying a flag, fly the american flag upside Down to generate comments at happy hour.

If I were to fly a pirate flag though, spongebob`s would be the one for the humor of it.


----------



## manatee

Andrew65 said:


> Fair enough, well said Paulo.
> 
> Sorry to let you down a bit there manatee, but it was meant as a joke to prod Captain Jack and the way too serious Paulo. I think flying a pirate flag is lame to answer the OP`s initial question, but if there were kids onboard having fun and it was appropriate to fly one, I`d try to have the biggest and most artistically creative one to fly for them in the name of fun, but then again, it all Depends on the spirit of the person behind the boat it is on.
> 
> If you want to make a statement for flying a flag, fly the american flag upside Down to generate comments at happy hour.
> 
> If I were to fly a pirate flag though, spongebob`s would be the one for the humor of it.


No worries. It's a hilarious flag, thanks for the link.

As a long-time Gilbert and Sullivan fan, with "Pirates of Penzance" being my favorite of their works, it's hard for me to see anything but humor in pirate-ness.It's all in fun.

*The Pirate King's Song*
Oh, better far to live and die 
Under the brave black flag I fly, 
Than play a sanctimonious part 
With a pirate head and a pirate heart. 
Away to the cheating world go you, 
Where pirates all are well-to-do; 
But I'll be true to the song I sing, 
And live and die a Pirate King. 
For I am a Pirate King! 
And it is, it is a glorious thing 
To be a Pirate King! 
For I am a Pirate King!


----------



## trav365plus

I think it would be cool. Hell, that's what am gonna do next weekend.


----------



## randyrhines

On the water, there is an inherent danger of drowning always. there is a responsibility within the boating community,, To look out for each other. And if called upon to render assistance, in and of itself it is fun, challenging, but always, Danger is there. 
Its just an undeniable factor in the sport , commerce or lifestyle we as sailors choose.
Safety and the impression we convey, with our attitude, the flags we fly, and the character we put fourth in front of children and fellow sailors, Should convey without confusion a sense of caution and being serious, in pursuit of that water borne adventure. If Respect for life and safety is the message spongebob and jolly Roger send, I will ere on the side of safety Andy.


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> You are Captain Jack....
> 
> Do you really need to ask?
> 
> ​
> _____
> Titus Tiger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rock the rogers


lol. just being polite. i like the animation. pretty neat.


----------



## captain jack

i think that, if you are wishing to see how a pirate flag might be viewed by the masses you only need to go to just about any store in America and see how many skulls, death's heads, and pirate flags are impronted on so many goods; from T-shirts to back packs and cups. it's everywhere. it's in our military insignia. it's in our entertainment industry. you see it in tatoos and on stickers in bubble gum machines. it's even in a box of Legos. i seriously doubt that the average American is going to look down on you as a supporter of evil-doers...or think you're lame.


----------



## titustiger27

That might be the rub.

The casual person... who doesn't take him or her-self too serious... has no problem with it.

If you are a 'live and let live kind of person' ... you aren't going to be too judgmental about what a person raises on her/his sailboat (be it a pirate flag or a Burning River Pale Ale).

If you look in this thread that is pretty clear. Some here have a rule book for life as big as the NYC phone book.

and for the amusement of the rest

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## captain jack

maybe that is the problem. brain surgery is serous. your giorlfriend turning up pregnant when you can't affprd it is serious. politics, because it determines the future of everyone's lives, is serious. heart attacks are serious ( this i k now because there is that saying: serious as a heart attack ). but sailing is supposed to be fun


----------



## titustiger27

All hobbies and most of life should be fun... maybe serious fun... but not to be taken too serious.

Sig files and avatars = not serious
_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## manatee

captain jack said:


> i think that, if you are wishing to see how a pirate flag might be viewed by the masses you only need to go to just about any store in America and see how many skulls, death's heads, and pirate flags are impronted on so many goods; from T-shirts to back packs and cups. it's everywhere. it's in our military insignia. it's in our entertainment industry. you see it in tatoos and on stickers in bubble gum machines. it's even in a box of Legos. i seriously doubt that the average American is going to look down on you as a supporter of evil-doers...or think you're lame.


You're going to love my squadron's insignia. 

VA-12


----------



## titustiger27

manatee said:


> You're going to love my squadron's insignia.
> 
> VA-12


The dichotomy of this










and this: Calming Manatee

is a bit amusing

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## manatee

I'm a multi-faceted personality.


----------



## titustiger27

manatee said:


> I'm a multi-faceted personality.


like an expensive diamond
Facet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## captain jack

have you ever tried Edy's Grand chocolate ice cream? i hadn't before. really kickin.


----------



## captain jack

you know what would make it better? if it was a warm summer day, i was sitting in the cockpit of my 'new' sailboat as i ate this bowl of very tastey Edy's Grand chocolate ice cream, while listening to Jimmy Buffet and...wait for it....flying a pirate flag from my back stay. 

i doubt anyone cares, but i just finished polishing the new stanchion i just made to replace one that was damaged, on the 'new' boat. nice and bright, now, and it doesn't have those numbers on it....like it did when it was juat raw 304 stainless tubing. rum, mother's mag polish, elbow grease, and Edy's: a _Grand_ mix. lol. i'm off to see the lizard!


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> All hobbies and most of life should be fun... maybe serious fun... but not to be taken too serious.
> 
> Sig files and avatars = not serious
> _____
> Titus Tiger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rock the rogers


life is too short to take anything too seriously!:laugher

Edy's Grand ice cream. kind of makes me wonder if there is a container of Edy's Fair to Middlin' ice cream, out there somewhere.

how's that for a thread that goes all over the map?:laugher


----------



## Andrew65

randyrhines said:


> On the water, there is an inherent danger of drowning always. there is a responsibility within the boating community,, To look out for each other. And if called upon to render assistance, in and of itself it is fun, challenging, but always, Danger is there.
> Its just an undeniable factor in the sport , commerce or lifestyle we as sailors choose.
> Safety and the impression we convey, with our attitude, the flags we fly, and the character we put fourth in front of children and fellow sailors, Should convey without confusion a sense of caution and being serious, in pursuit of that water borne adventure. If Respect for life and safety is the message spongebob and jolly Roger send, I will ere on the side of safety Andy.


Wow, didn`t see that one coming!

Lighten up randy, this whole thread is nonsense. What I wrote and what I do on the water are two different beasts. The spongebob squarepants pirate flag idea was spurred on by Captain Jack.

Thanks for the idea of my avatar Captain Jack! You are right about the Whole pirate theme in the states. You can`t swing a dead cat without hitting it somewheres. It`s a part of Our past as a budding nation.

You want to boycott something, boycott Disney. They are to have a finger wagged at more than I for irresponsibility randy.


----------



## randyrhines

ncsailor said:


> I fly one all the time and don't care.





Andrew65 said:


> Wow, didn`t see that one coming!
> 
> Lighten up randy, this whole thread is nonsense. What I wrote and what I do on the water are two different beasts. The spongebob squarepants pirate flag idea was spurred on by Captain Jack.
> 
> Thanks for the idea of my avatar Captain Jack! You are right about the Whole pirate theme in the states. You can`t swing a dead cat without hitting it somewheres. It`s a part of Our past as a budding nation.
> 
> You want to boycott something, boycott Disney. They are to have a finger wagged at more than I for irresponsibility randy.


Thank you , I've regained my balance, yeh it was really deep. It was difficult to ride the crest of that wave after 3 bottles of wine..........lol! Can't believe it made that much sense, Such arrogance on my behalf, trying to gain the high ground. Your right Brother time to lighten up.!
This would be a good time for me to confess that I've been wearing my cowboy hat while sailing as well........


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> have you ever tried Edy's Grand chocolate ice cream? i hadn't before. really kickin.


What is bad ice cream? It's why I have to cut back



captain jack said:


> you know what would make it better? if it was a warm summer day, i was sitting in the cockpit of my 'new' sailboat as i ate this bowl of very tastey Edy's Grand chocolate ice cream, while listening to Jimmy Buffet and...wait for it....flying a pirate flag from my back stay.
> 
> i doubt anyone cares, but i just finished polishing the new stanchion i just made to replace one hat was damaged, on the 'new' boat. nice and bright, now, and it doesn't have those numbers on it....like it did when it was juat raw 304 stainless tubing. rum, mother's mag polish, elbow grease, and Edy's: a _Grand_ mix. lol. i'm off to see the lizard!


Stainless steel is cool

i dont know
where imma gonna go
when the volcano blo

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## PCP

captain jack said:


> i think that, if you are wishing to see how a pirate flag might be viewed by the masses you only need to go to just about any store in America and see how many skulls, death's heads, and pirate flags are impronted on so many goods; from T-shirts to back packs and cups. it's everywhere. it's in our military insignia. it's in our entertainment industry. you see it in tatoos and on stickers in bubble gum machines. it's even in a box of Legos. i seriously doubt that the average American is going to look down on you as a supporter of evil-doers...or think you're lame.


We are talking about being lame not saying the people that buys or fly them mean any harm to the others. There are people with lame tastes even if what is lame is debatable. For what I can tell lame is pretty much equivalent of bad taste.

Have a look at who is buying that stuff: Educated people or mostly uneducated people? Are those articles well designed, made carefully with good materials, things you want to keep or just trivial things imported from China and sold to the ones that want to be "funny" and think that with a irreverent (even if lame) symbol they can stand out by shocking the others?

Pirates symbols are not the only lame ones that are around and are bought by many people that proudly wears them. The question is: Are they lame? That is what this thread is about, if a Pirate symbol on a boat is lame or not.



Some think it is a way to go. Some even like to be lame!

Not a problem with that. I believe everybody has the right to fly the banners and wear the things that they identify with.



Regards

Paulo


----------



## titustiger27

PCP said:


> We are talking about being lame not saying the people that buys or fly them mean any harm to the others. There are people with lame tastes even if what is lame is debatable. For what I can tell lame is pretty much equivalent of bad taste.
> 
> Have a look at who is buying that stuff: Educated people or mostly uneducated people? Are those articles well designed, made carefully with good materials, things you want to keep or just trivial things imported from China and sold to the ones that want to be "funny" and think that with a irreverent (even if lame) symbol they can stand out by shocking the others?
> 
> Pirates symbols are not the only lame ones that are around and are bought by many people that proudly wears them. The question is: Are they lame? That is what this thread is about, if a Pirate symbol on a boat is lame or not.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


So all the people who buy pirate are equal to the people who are stupid and buy stupid thing

that logic... if you want to call it logic means your next sailboat is going to be the sailboat in the foreground










Lame people doesn't not absolutely = will fly a jolly rogers

Sure some lame people fly a jolly rogers

But I would guess not many of the people with a pirate flag, also have a "I am Lame" flag or some form of a boob shirt.

I would even suggest that you likely are not going to find a sailboat flying a jolly rogers and wearing one of those t-shirts
_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## titustiger27

venn diagram










_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## titustiger27

In case people question my research:










These two completely made up venn's prove who is lame...present company now withstanding

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## manatee

captain jack said:


> have you ever tried Edy's Grand chocolate ice cream? i hadn't before. really kickin.


Ice Cream!


----------



## PCP

titustiger27 said:


> So all the people who buy pirate are equal to the people who are stupid and buy stupid thing
> 
> that logic... if you want to call it logic means your next sailboat is going to be the sailboat in the foreground
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lame people doesn't not absolutely = will fly a jolly rogers
> 
> Sure some lame people fly a jolly rogers
> 
> But I would guess not many of the people with a pirate flag, also have a "I am Lame" flag or some form of a boob shirt.
> 
> I would even suggest that you likely are not going to find a sailboat flying a jolly rogers and wearing one of those t-shirts
> _____
> Titus Tiger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rock the rogers


Let me be clear: I have nothing against lame people and lame tastes providing I am not forced to make them a part of my life style. Lame is not the same thing as stupid and all the people that buy the kind of stuff I have posted are not necessarily stupid, just lame and even that is just a matter of opinion, except of course regarding the ones that proudly announce themselves as Lame

You are offending the ones that like to be lame calling them stupids.

Regarding the pirate flag I said that what is considered lame is debatable even if I, and many, consider it lame.

The post had to do with you saying that there are lots of articles on the market regarding pirate's icons stating with that they are not lame. I have just said that there are also on the market a huge number of popular lame articles, some of them that are wear by people on the form of T shirt's, meaning that the fact that they are on the market as nothing to do with them being lame or not but with the fact that lame people buy them.

Regarding the boats I do not understand. In fact my first boat was one of those, salvaged from destruction by me and a beautiful boat. There are lots of old beautiful boats being recovered from the river banks and restored to its former glory and that can be not only a meritorious act in what regards to salvage a heritage that belongs to all as unfortunately is a very expensive affair.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## manatee

Paulo sure knows where to find lots of examples of lameitude. 

(Kidding, Paulo, I know GIYF. )


----------



## titustiger27

PCP said:


> Let me be clear: I have nothing against lame people and lame tastes providing I am not forced to make them a part of my life style. Lame is not the same thing as stupid and all the people that buy the kind of stuff I have posted are not necessarily stupid, just lame and even that is just a matter of opinion, except of course regarding the ones that proudly announce themselves as Lame
> 
> You are offending the ones that like to be lame calling them stupids.
> 
> Regarding the pirate flag I said that what is considered lame is debatable even if I, and many, consider it lame.
> 
> The post had to do with you saying that there are lots of articles on the market regarding pirate's icons stating with that they are not lame. I have just said that there are also on the market a huge number of popular lame articles, some of them that are wear by people on the form of T shirt's, meaning that the fact that they are on the market as nothing to do with them being lame or not but with the fact that lame people buy them.
> 
> Regarding the boats I do not understand. In fact my first boat was one of those, salvaged from destruction by me and a beautiful boat. There are lots of old beautiful boats being recovered from the river banks and restored to its former glory and that can be not only a meritorious act in what regards to salvage a heritage that belongs to all as unfortunately is a very expensive affair.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


I understand that --- though (I think) you were not responding to my post but Captain Jack's

My point was all does not equal all.

A "I am Lame" t-shirt *≠ *Lame, it may *=* stupid.

Your next sailboard *≠ *any sailboat.

and in the general sense of this thread, that is my belief: you can not say all those who fly the jolly rogers ARE lame, unless you have a strict set of rules that assumes a=b, but ignores c or the seven seas

to paraphrase author Tom Robbins: "There are two kinds of people in this world: Those who believe there are two kinds of people in this world and those who are smart enough to know better."


----------



## titustiger27

manatee said:


> Ice Cream!


a pint is an appetizer, unless it is liquid, then a pint is refreshment


----------



## PCP

titustiger27 said:


> venn diagram
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _____
> Titus Tiger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rock the rogers


Very interesting and colorful balloons but you are wrong, taste (and having a lame one) is not something that is decided by some that are lame. As I have said it is debatable (what is and what is not) but most of all it is social and culturally determined, as what is Art and what is not.

What is lame for me (in the case of pirate's flag at least) is not lame for you.

Each person has a personal opinion about that. In the end what counts is the number and weight of the opinions, socially and culturally speaking, that consider it lame regarding a majority consensus about something being lame or not. Not very different from the process that makes something a piece of art...or not.

There is a science that studies how those mechanisms works, it is called Semiology, a very interesting one that helps to understand all this stuff about signs and meanings.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## manatee

pcp said:


> Regarding the boats I do not understand. In fact my first boat was one of those, salvaged from destruction by me and a beautiful boat. There are lots of old beautiful boats being recovered from the river banks and restored to its former glory and that can be not only a meritorious act in what regards to salvage a heritage that belongs to all as unfortunately is a very expensive affair.


I didn't get it either, Paulo. I'd like to have the wherewithal to rescue  Dylan's boatyard.


----------



## captain jack

Andrew65 said:


> Thanks for the idea of my avatar Captain Jack!


you are quite welcome. i always try to be an inspiration to my fellow humans!
i am surprised to see that someone actually pays that much attention to what i say:laugher


----------



## captain jack

randyrhines said:


> This would be a good time for me to confess that I've been wearing my cowboy hat while sailing as well........


that's ok. i tend to sing sea chanties, sailing songs, or jimmy buffet ( in that order ) while i'm sailing.


----------



## Don L

I'm open minded and think flying a pirate flag is no more lame than flying a swastika flag.


----------



## captain jack

PCP said:


> We are talking about being lame not saying the people that buys or fly them mean any harm to the others. There are people with lame tastes even if what is lame is debatable. For what I can tell lame is pretty much equivalent of bad taste.
> 
> Have a look at who is buying that stuff: Educated people or mostly uneducated people?


as has been previously noted, intelligence is rarely considered a qualification for being cool and ignorance is not a guarantee of being lame.



PCP said:


> Are those articles well designed, made carefully with good materials, things you want to keep or just trivial things imported from China and sold to the ones that want to be "funny" and think that with a irreverent (even if lame) symbol they can stand out by shocking the others?


the quality of materials and place of manufacture have absolutely no bearing on the images on these items. many serious and boring, and i suppose therefore not lame, products are cheaply made, too.



PCP said:


> Pirates symbols are not the only lame ones that are around and are bought by many people that proudly wears them. The question is: Are they lame? That is what this thread is about, if a Pirate symbol on a boat is lame or not.


wow. so, let me get this right: if you have a senser of humor, you are lame? it must really suck not to be lame!



PCP said:


>


anything she thinks is cool, is cool. i would wear a pink shrt with a puppy dog on it, for her!

and i know: that is sexist. i don't care. i would bow down and worship at her altar ( at least for a few hours )!



PCP said:


>


nothing wrong with that shirt. statement of fact. 



PCP said:


>


thanks dude! best laugh of the day, so far. these are all very funny, unless you take life way too seriously. life is too short to be so serious. i smile and joke and laugh all the time, regardless of how bad life can get. it helps keep a person sane during adversity...and it makes you fun to be around. let's face it, people who don't take themselves seriously ( lame people, i suppose ) are far more fun than those who do.

i actually had the one about battered women on a sticker on my motorcycle helmet, for years. biker humor. it's not for the weak and overly sensitive.



PCP said:


> Some think it is a way to go. Some even like to be lame!
> 
> Not a problem with that. I believe everybody has the right to fly the banners and wear the things that they identify with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


one question, weren't you the one who has written numerous posts denouncing the flying of pirate flags because it shows support for the evil actions of pirates? i mean, you didn't seem to think it was just lame but almost immoral.


----------



## Minnewaska

The hypocrisy in this thread is hilarious. I mean, lame.

If one truly rejects judgmental people, they wouldn't feel the need to judge those that judge.

What a lame thread.


----------



## titustiger27

PCP said:


> Very interesting and colorful balloons but you are wrong, taste (and having a lame one) is not something that is decided by some that are lame. As I have said it is debatable (what is and what is not) but most of all it is social and culturally determined, as what is Art and what is not.
> 
> What is lame for me (in the case of pirate's flag at least) is not lame for you.
> 
> Each person has a personal opinion about that. In the end what counts is the number and weight of the opinions, socially and culturally speaking, *that consider it lame regarding a majority consensus about something being lame or not. Not very different from the process that makes something a piece of art...or not. *
> 
> There is a science that studies how those mechanisms works, it is called Semiology, a very interesting one that helps to understand all this stuff about signs and meanings.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


O dear.. now you bring taste into a discussion of lame...

I believe if you read up in the thread you will see I and Captain Jack (if I may speak for him) point out ---- public opinion is only important if you care to care about it.

If 80 percent of the world think flying a flag is lame (and assume we aren't talking laws, but just public opinion) it is only important if you care what others think, when you put the flag up. Should you not care...it matters not.

Now taste is a synonym of flavor. You like Catamarans, doesn't mean you dislike monohulls....nor do you make a judgement on monohulls, but you are presenting your personal enjoyment.

The way I see it: I like chocolate ice cream, is a mater of taste... not a judgement. If I say I dislike strawberry ice cream, it is still taste... I am not saying it is bad.

Should I say eating ice cream is lame... I am not discussing 'taste' but suggesting it is just not a good thing to eat ice cream if you want to date Keira Knightley, because I am sure she likes pirates and if she thinks ice cream is lame, she will not think of you as the Provocateur and Adventurer she goes for!

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> The hypocrisy in this thread is hilarious. I mean, lame.
> 
> If one truly rejects judgmental people, they wouldn't feel the need to judge those that judge.


can you reject judgement and not the people who are so internally lofty to present those judgements as if they know best.

What is the saying: "you can have as many wrong opinions as you like, just don't expect me to accept them" or something like that... since I just made it up



Minnewaska said:


> What a lame thread.


Is that a judgement or merely your opinion?

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers
And eat ice cream


----------



## RIO GRANDE

We fly a pirates flag. It was lame until it got all tattered and ragged around the edges. Now it's waaaayyyyy cool.


----------



## titustiger27

manatee said:


> I didn't get it either, Paulo. I'd like to have the wherewithal to rescue  Dylan's boatyard.


whoa, you need a tetanus shot just to look at that thread
_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## titustiger27

RIO GRANDE said:


> We fly a pirates flag. It was lame until it got all tattered and ragged around the edges. Now it's waaaayyyyy cool.


o great, now there is going to be someone selling Acid Wash Jolly Rogers.

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## captain jack

PCP said:


> Let me be clear: I have nothing against lame people and lame tastes providing I am not forced to make them a part of my life style. Lame is not the same thing as stupid and all the people that buy the kind of stuff I have posted are not necessarily stupid, just lame and even that is just a matter of opinion, except of course regarding the ones that proudly announce themselves as Lame
> 
> You are offending the ones that like to be lame calling them stupids.
> 
> Regarding the pirate flag I said that what is considered lame is debatable even if I, and many, consider it lame.


that is the definative answer to the question, really. beauty is in the eye of the beholder.



PCP said:


> The post had to do with you saying that there are lots of articles on the market regarding pirate's icons stating with that they are not lame. I have just said that there are also on the market a huge number of popular lame articles, some of them that are wear by people on the form of T shirt's, meaning that the fact that they are on the market as nothing to do with them being lame or not but with the fact that lame people buy them.


no sir. that wasn't him. it was me. i posted that because the idea seemed to be that society determines what is lame by what is accepted. therefore, something that was so widely accepted must not be lame....at least not according to most people. however, you just introduced another concept. if what is acceptable, even pleasing, to the majority is not nessessaily the standard of what is lame or cool, what is? who determines that, then? a small group of experts, perhaps? who elects these experts and by what criterea? thought provoking stuff...



> Regarding the boats I do not understand.


honestly. me, either.


> In fact my first boat was one of those, salvaged from destruction by me and a beautiful boat. There are lots of old beautiful boats being recovered from the river banks and restored to its former glory and that can be not only a meritorious act in what regards to salvage a heritage that belongs to all as unfortunately is a very expensive affair.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


with boats in that condition, i could only imagine how expensive. but, you are right. there are worthy treasures of maritime history buried in the ground and sunken in the water, begging to be brought to life again.


----------



## PCP

Minnewaska said:


> The hypocrisy in this thread is hilarious. I mean, lame.
> 
> If one truly rejects judgmental people, they wouldn't feel the need to judge those that judge.
> 
> What a lame thread.


I agree, lame thread

But regarding a sign, like a banner or any other, unless it is an universal symbol like red for stop and green for go, signs imply always some ambiguity regarding their meaning and that's the case of a Pirates'flag: Lame for ones, cool for others.

We could try more and see to what type of sailors it is a cool sign and to what type is lame but I am afraid it is a lame attempt on a lame subject

So bottom point, fly a pirate banner if you really find that cool but know that many will look at that as lame.

That can have advantages too, in what regards to call to the party all those that find that stuff cool. In the end maybe it is a good thing because it can identify sailors: the ones that find that cool and the ones that find that lame and all things that contribute to identify a group are good things since we can approach the ones with whom we share common views and interests and avoid the others.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## captain jack

PCP said:


> Very interesting and colorful balloons but you are wrong, taste (and having a lame one) is not something that is decided by some that are lame. As I have said it is debatable (what is and what is not) but most of all it is social and culturally determined, as what is Art and what is not.
> 
> What is lame for me (in the case of pirate's flag at least) is not lame for you.
> 
> Each person has a personal opinion about that. In the end what counts is the number and weight of the opinions, socially and culturally speaking, that consider it lame regarding a majority consensus about something being lame or not. Not very different from the process that makes something a piece of art...or not.
> 
> There is a science that studies how those mechanisms works, it is called Semiology, a very interesting one that helps to understand all this stuff about signs and meanings.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


that is what i thought the idea was: majority determines lame/cool. however, your other post seems to refute that thought. if the majority determines what is lame or cool, the proliferation of pirate images and pirate inspired goods ( at least in America. never been to a walmart in England :laugher ) should show that, according to the majority, not only are pirate flags not lame, they are absolutely the ultimate in cool. i am not sure what you feel determines lame/cool, now.

i believe, sir, that you are trying to confuse everyone so that no one can make rational posts and we all look lame :laugher


----------



## captain jack

Minnewaska said:


> The hypocrisy in this thread is hilarious. I mean, lame.
> 
> If one truly rejects judgmental people, they wouldn't feel the need to judge those that judge.
> 
> What a lame thread.


it is a sad fact of reality. all humans judge. if you believe that there is nothing to believe in, you still believe. life and humanity are simply huge catch 22s.


----------



## PCP

captain jack said:


> ... ignorance is not a guarantee of being lame.


Sure, but taste grows with education.



captain jack said:


> ... that is sexist. i don't care. i would bow down and worship at her altar ( at least for a few hours )!...
> thanks dude! best laugh of the day, so far. these are all very funny, unless you take life way too seriously. life is too short to be so serious. i smile and joke and laugh all the time, regardless of how bad life can get. it helps keep a person sane during adversity...and it makes you fun to be around. let's face it, people who don't take themselves seriously ( lame people, i suppose ) are far more fun than those who do.
> 
> i actually had the one about battered women on a sticker on my motorcycle helmet, for years. biker humor. it's not for the weak and overly sensitive.


So in the end I am right, the ones that like pirate's flags like that kind of stuff that I posted as lame, or at least you do.

As I have said everybody as the right to wear and fly the symbols that better identify with his personality and taste but those symbols are read by others and the meaning can diverge: What you find funny I see as sexist, tasteless and lame.



captain jack said:


> one question, weren't you the one who has written numerous posts denouncing the flying of pirate flags because it shows support for the evil actions of pirates? i mean, you didn't seem to think it was just lame but almost immoral.


That has to do with Semiology: I find worrying that even meaning otherwise someone can identify himself with a symbol that originally meant dead, destruction and pillage. Not as much an individual concern but more in what regards society and the values that some groups chose to value.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## captain jack

PCP said:


> I agree, lame thread
> 
> But regarding a sign, like a banner or any other, unless it is an universal symbol like red for stop and green for go, signs imply always some ambiguity regarding their meaning and that's the case of a Pirates'flag: Lame for ones, cool for others.
> 
> We could try more and see to what type of sailors it is a cool sign and to what type is lame but I am afraid it is a lame attempt on a lame subject
> 
> So bottom point, fly a pirate banner if you really find that cool but know that many will look at that as lame.
> 
> That can have advantages too, in what regards to call to the party all those that find that stuff cool. In the end maybe it is a good thing because it can identify sailors: the ones that find that cool and the ones that find that lame and all things that contribute to identify a group are good things since we can approach the ones with whom we share common views and interests and avoid the others.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


wow dude. your posts have been on it, lately. there is some really deep stuff in this one.

i am going to comment of two different people's post, here, then i'm headed off to the boat to shovel snow off of it so i can install the new stanchion and try my new hatch on for fit before i sand and finish it.

this thread may, on the surface, seem lame but it reveals and discusses some deep elements of humanity and society. i think that's why it has endured. it touches a cord in people.

first Paulo's post:

that is exactly what this is all really about. the flying of a pirate flag or any other symbol is all about 'tribal' identification. humans are a tribal species. studies have found that we naturally can identify approximatel;y 500 individuals by face, alone, as long as those individuals are similar to us. people who we know that are very different, in appearance, from us take up more than one individual slot of memory because there are more different features to file away.

up until around 500 individuals, societies can be pretty much self governing without the need for government or law enforcement. ( bear with me. i am just glancing over a deep subject, here ). after you pass 500 individuals, one of two things happen: the group saplits in two or social customs change. as you pass that magic number there becomes a greater and greater need for government. there also grows a problem with identifying all of the members of your group/tribe. so, such groups tend to adopt tribal fashions; clothing styles. hair styles, jewelry, etc. that way, when you meeet someone, even if you do not recognize their face, you can tell they are a part of your group.

in modern society, especially in an empire( as compared to an actual nation which is the home of a specific nationality ) like America, we are organized in one enormous group. there are only a few, very general, things that are 'tribal' identifiers and the large, vague nature of this huge group is not satisfying to the human mind. so, we subdivide (... in the shopping malls...). we create our own tribes to belong to. you see it all around you but you don't notice what it really is. we become bikers or sailors or soccer moms. some of us may belong to more than one 'tribe'. and all of theser 'tribes' have their tribal identifiers. clothing or imagry that allows you to see, on firsr sight, which 'tribe' a person belongs to.

as these tribes get bigger, they are forced to subdivide, again. thus, bikers divide into 1%ers, HD guys, crotch rocket guys, chopper guys, etc. and all of these sub tribes have their own tribal identifiers, too.

the pirate flag is a tribal indentifier. if you see it, you know that the person flying it belongs to a specific subdivision of the sailing tribe. you may think it's lame but that's because it's not your tribe. if you look through this thread, you can see that, outside of the judgemental 'lame', there is a definate idea of what the person flying the pirate flag is like.

me? i have totenkopfs all over my place of residence. people know i am seriously into skulls, death's heads, and grim reapers. i embody two different elements of the pirate flag tribe. on one side, i love the images of death because i do not fear death and i laugh in it's face, taking serious risks all the time. and that is one side of that imagery. the side of danger and risk.

on the other hand, i am a rebel and a free thinker. the pirate flag sybolizes rebellion against the status quo and the control of sociaL acceptance. and, if i fly the jolly roger, both of those possibilities, regarding my nature, would come to mind.

anyhow, that was one point i wanted to address: the pirate flag as a modern tribal identifier.

trhe other point i wanted to address is something titustiger had to say:



titustiger27 said:


> O dear.. now you bring taste into a discussion of lame...
> 
> I believe if you read up in the thread you will see I and Captain Jack (if I may speak for him) point out ---- public opinion is only important if you care to care about it.
> 
> If 80 percent of the world think flying a flag is lame (and assume we aren't talking laws, but just public opinion) it is only important if you care what others think, when you put the flag up. Should you not care...it matters not.
> 
> Now taste is a synonym of flavor. You like Catamarans, doesn't mean you dislike monohulls....nor do you make a judgement on monohulls, but you are presenting your personal enjoyment.
> 
> The way I see it: I like chocolate ice cream, is a mater of taste... not a judgement. If I say I dislike strawberry ice cream, it is still taste... I am not saying it is bad.
> 
> Should I say eating ice cream is lame... I am not discussing 'taste' but suggesting it is just not a good thing to eat ice cream if you want to date Keira Knightley, because I am sure she likes pirates and if she thinks ice cream is lame, she will not think of you as the Provocateur and Adventurer she goes for!
> 
> _____
> Titus Tiger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rock the rogers


basically, this is what has been a driving force in th heat that has occasionally developed in this thread. the OP set this thread up in such a way that it is more than just an opinion. it is a judgement. as he points out, if you say you do not like the flying of a jolly roger, you are stating your opinion. if you say flying a jolly roger is lame, you are passing judgement on another person. people do not like being judged. had the OP asked if people flew, or liked to fly, a jolly roger, this thread would have been much shorter and much less fun.

i think there is a lot of truth and depth in this thread, if you take the time to see it for what it is.


----------



## captain jack

PCP said:


> Sure, but taste grows with education.
> 
> So in the end I am right, the ones that like pirate's flags like that kind of stuff that I posted as lame, or at least you do.
> 
> As I have said everybody as the right to wear and fly the symbols that better identify with his personality and taste but those symbols are read by others and the meaning can diverge: What you find funny I see as sexist, tasteless and lame.
> 
> That has to do with Semiology: I find worrying that even meaning otherwise someone can identify himself with a symbol that originally meant dead, destruction and pillage. Not as much an individual concern but more in what regards society and the values that some groups chose to value.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


saying taste grows with education is rather subjective. grows, in whose judgement? again, who decides what is tasteful? the majority of people or smart nerdy geeks that the majority thinks are totally not cool?

i think, my friend, that the problem is that you wish to set symbols in stone. symbolism is a language. and, like languages do, it grows and changes. language and symbolism are fluid. they are an expression of society's experiences and of society's ever changing view of reality.

for instance:

in ancient religions, the snake is the symbol of the serpentine path of the shaman to the underworld, where he gains knowledge to bring back to the folk. it is a symbol of shamanic wisdom and power.

in, later, abrahamic religions, the snake is a symbol of satan, the tempter. it is a symbol of evil. and that symbol of evil has grown to a whole new level of meaning in the last few decades.

skulls, and other 'images of death' have meant a lot of different things to a lot of different peoples. they have been a symbol of warrior might, shamanic wsdom gained from the realm of death, the unity of life and death, terror, murder, death ( of course ), fear, poison, etc. in the Mexican day of the dead celebrations, skulls are colorfully decorated and are loving symbols of the unity between the dead loved ones and the living.

you can't set language and symbols in stone. they do not maintain the meaning of one group for all of eternity. in that way, symbolism and language are like everything in existance: they become, they grow, they fade, they change, they die and are reborn anew.

once, the pirate flag was used to inspire terror by men with ill intent. now, it is a totally different symbol for a totally different people. although, again, the first statement is debatable. good and bad are subjective values. it depends on whose side you ask.


----------



## Andrew65

captain jack said:


> saying taste grows with education is rather subjective. Grows, in whose judgement? Again, who decides what is tasteful? The majority of people or smart nerdy geeks that the majority thinks are totally not cool?
> 
> I think, my friend, that the problem is that you wish to set symbols in stone. Symbolism is a language. And, like languages do, it grows and changes. Language and symbolism are fluid. They are an expression of society's experiences and of society's ever changing view of reality.
> 
> For instance:
> 
> In ancient religions, the snake is the symbol of the serpentine path of the shaman to the underworld, where he gains knowledge to bring back to the folk. It is a symbol of shamanic wisdom and power.
> 
> In, later, abrahamic religions, the snake is a symbol of satan, the tempter. It is a symbol of evil. And that symbol of evil has grown to a whole new level of meaning in the last few decades.
> 
> Shulls, and other 'images of death' have meant a lot of different things to a lot of different peoples. They have been a symbol of warrior might, shamanic wsdom gained from the realm of death, the unity of life and death, terror, murder, death ( of course ), fear, poison, etc. In the mexican day of the dead celebrations, skulls are colorfully decorated and are loving symbols of the unity between the dead loved ones and the living.
> 
> You can't set language and symbols in stone. They do not maintain the meaning of one group for all of eternity. In that way, symbolism and languae are like everything in existance: They become, they grow, they fade, they change, they die and are reborn anew.
> 
> Once, the pirate flag was used to inspire terror by men with ill intent. Now, it is a totally different symbol for a totally different people. Although, again, the first statement is debatable. Good and bad are subjective values. It depends on whose side you ask.


+1


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## chamonix

Who gets this worked up over a novelty flag? Is a pirate flag lame? Yes it is, in a annoyingly juvenile sort of way. Why? Well it's got the whole make believe Peter Pan thing going for it. and because some people who fly it think it makes a statement about them, i.e. their independence/free spirit etc. In reality it says jack sh*t about them other than a high tolerance for novelty items. Does it matter? Not in the least, we all do lame things every now and then. I think participating in an internet forum is kind of lame, yet here I am. So fly your pirate flag with pride. Just don't expect the rest of us to be blown away with your awesome display of free expression.


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## titustiger27

radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG





captain jack said:


> ** ** snip } }
> 
> basically, this is what has been a driving force in th heat that has occasionally developed in this thread. the OP set this thread up in such a way that it is more than just an opinion. it is a judgement. as he points out, if you say you do not like the flying of a jolly roger, you are stating your opinion. if you say flying a jolly roger is lame, you are passing judgement on another person. people do not like being judged. *had the OP asked if people flew, or liked to fly, a jolly roger*, this thread would have been much shorter and much less fun.
> 
> i think there is a lot of truth and depth in this thread, if you take the time to see it for what it is.


I'm not sure, but you are probably right. "Is it considered..." is an interesting way to ask the question. I think because there probably is no answer, that provides for a long discussion.

The way to know what is considered is a little difficult. I guess if he put a poll in this thread there could be a vote. But with my rule of 30/50/20 that fifty percent of indifference skews the data.

And who is the considering? Did he want a definitive response.... or --- as I would hope --- a discussion that makes one think and may change some minds, but perhaps doesn't really definitively answer the age old question: "Pirate Flag lame?"

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


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## PCP

captain jack said:


> saying taste grows with education is rather subjective. grows, in whose judgement? again, who decides what is tasteful? the majority of people or smart nerdy geeks that the majority thinks are totally not cool?
> ....


Different countries, different outlooks in what regards education ant what should be teach. Basically I have teach in public schools for 35 years kids who to better their taste and be able to enjoy more complex forms of visual expression and also to express themselves trough drawing and painting.

Is that subjective? Partially yes but regarding what is artistically relevant only in what regards contemporary art and even if there are very different expressions and tendencies we can easily sort out what is tacky and tasteless.

We try to give to the kids a more discerning taste. Is that important? I don't know, it is important to live in a nicer world?

Regards

Paulo


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## Andrew65

Now that we all know your stance on pirate flags, are pretentious people lame?


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## titustiger27

Andrew65 said:


> Now that we all know your stance on pirate flags, are pretentious people lame?


I could make yet another venn diagram.....

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


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## Andrew65

Go for it Titus. Lets see what you got.


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## titustiger27

Andrew65 said:


> Go for it Titus. Lets see what you got.












Looking at this close...all I can say is in the end we are all sailors.
_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


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## manatee

Much Madness is divinest Sense 
To a discerning Eye,
Much Sense - the starkest Madness.
’Tis the Majority 
In this, as all, prevail,-
Assent - and you are sane;
Demur - you’re straightway dangerous -
And handled with a Chain.

--by Emily Dickinson


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## PCP

Andrew65 said:


> Now that we all know your stance on pirate flags, are pretentious people lame?


How can the truth and a honest response to a question :*"saying taste grows with education is rather subjective. grows, in whose judgement?"* be pretentious?

You can disagree that we learn how to see and judge things in what regards quality and taste but pretentious? Do you men that my profession was a pretentious one? Did you not have art teachers in your education?

Regards

Paulo


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## macswift

Easy question. Yes, it's lame - supremely lame...


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## PCP

macswift said:


> Easy question. Yes, it's lame - supremely lame...


Well, life is funny. I find a pirate flag lame and you find to be an art teacher lame

As I said, what people find lame varies wildly. I continue to think that it has to do with education but obviously it is not a shared opinion.

Regards

Paulo


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## macswift

Whoa Paulo,
I was referring to the pirate flag - I have no general view on art teachers!


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## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> I'm not sure, but you are probably right. "Is it considered..." is an interesting way to ask the question. I think because there probably is no answer, that provides for a long discussion.
> 
> The way to know what is considered is a little difficult. I guess if he put a poll in this thread there could be a vote. But with my rule of 30/50/20 that fifty percent of indifference skews the data.
> 
> And who is the considering? Did he want a definitive response.... or --- as I would hope --- a discussion that makes one think and may change some minds, but perhaps doesn't really definitively answer the age old question: "Pirate Flag lame?"
> 
> _____
> Titus Tiger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rock the rogers


:laugher i hadn't realized that was an age old question. i'm not so sure it was him asking 'is it considered' that sparked the long discussion and fervor. i think it's that word 'lame'. in modern society, that is an absolute judgement; just as good or evil are absolute judgements. i am sure he was asking what people thought about flying flags because he was afraid to appear lame. however, asking 'is it considered lame' is asking for others to pass judgement, rather than post opinions. so that, if i fly a pirate flag and you say that is lame you are not simply saying that you do not like to fly a pirate flag or that you do not think it's a good idea. you are passing judgement on me because you are judging my actions.

i, for one, am glad that he worded it that way. it has been an interesting and enjoyable conversation. as has been noted, it's been like a group of buddies sitting around a bar shooting the bull. a lot of really worthy conversations, sometimes containing some deep thoughts and ideas, start as a silly topic in just such a BS session. if, instead of an on-line thread, i had actually been sitting and enjoying a few drinks with you guys, and we had this discussion, i'd have considered it a fun evening.


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## chamonix

Pcp, being an art teacher does not automatically make you lame, you just have to work harder at avoiding it. Sailing's a good start, just don't fly a pirate flag.


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## captain jack

PCP said:


> Different countries, different outlooks in what regards education ant what should be teach. Basically I have teach in public schools for 35 years kids who to better their taste and be able to enjoy more complex forms of visual expression and also to express themselves trough drawing and painting.
> 
> Is that subjective? Partially yes but regarding what is artistically relevant only in what regards contemporary art and even if there are very different expressions and tendencies we can easily sort out what is tacky and tasteless.
> 
> We try to give to the kids a more discerning taste. Is that important? I don't know, it is important to live in a nicer world?
> 
> Regards
> Paulo


again, though, that is all a matter of opinion.

what is tacky and what is tasteless? it varies from decade to decade, group to group, and person to person.

since you bring up art... i was gifted and talented, as an artist, in high school. i'd be earning big bucks sitting on my butt making nice pictures, but life happened and i didn't get to finish college. ( as an aside, that used to bother me but, the skills and experiences i have gained by not taking a single career course has so vastly enrichened my life that i'd not change that part of my life if i could ) anyhow, Picasso is seen as one of the greats but, i don't like cubist art ( really, i don't like abstract art, at all ). i wouldn't pay a penny for any of his later work ( he wasn't always cubist, of course ). so, even with 'great' art, tastes differ.

when i was a kid i loved the movie' " the Ghost and Mrs Muir" ( still do ). there is a lot of wisdom in that movie. i'd recommend it to anyone who has not seen it. anyhow, the house belongs to Captain Greg...i should say it did belong to him since he'd the ghost and can't legally own property...it's decorated in a very meritime manner. Mrs Muir thought it was charming ( as did i ) but her upity inlaws thought it in horribly poor taste. who was right?

i'm a sailor. i dearly love maritime stuff. i say the inlaws were just upity but they were upper crust people; better than lowly sailors, so i suppose that makes them right. see what i mean.

i think that it's great for a teacher to expose students to things of high culture but some of the brilliant graphic novels, of today, are fine masterpieces just as much as the greats hanging in museaums. in past decades, Tolkein was considered trash reading. now, we realize it is a fine example of 20th century english literature. people should be exposed to all kinds of culture, not just what is accepted by those in the 'upper crust' or by 'the scholars'. art, whether it is a rennaisance master or Frank Frazzetta, is an expression of a societies spirit, ideals, hopes, and dreams. it all has value and a truly cultured person has a wide range of tastes.

some people only like monty python. some only like abbot and costello. still others only like the three stooges. i like all kinds of humor from the dry and subtle to slap stick. the more things i think are funny, the more laughter i get to enjoy.

porn is a good example! museaums are full of images of naked women. playboy is full of images of naked women. one is considered tasteful fine art and one is tasteless porn. they are the same thing! of course, some say the difference is in what way you enjoy it. since guys do....certain things....while looking at the playboy, that makes it tasteless porn. but, what if you did those things while looking at fine art nudes and, instead, displayed centerfolds as works of art? would that, then, make the fine art nudes tasteless porn and playboy fine art?

perhaps, one day, society will go through another very prudish time and all of it will be considered tasteless porn. perhaps that society will remove all of those fine art nudes from the museaums and toss them out. art teachers from our time would weep. art teachers from their time will be self satisfied because they won a victory for good taste.

eye of the beholder.


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## Andrew65

If you mean your profession as a teacher, then no. It's an honorable one. If you mean your profession of all you have said throughout this thread, then yes. It's pretentious. I'll admit that if saw a guy sail in flying a pirate flag, l'd be leary of himuntil l learned his true colors through his actions and his mouth. Like captain jack said, we are all tribal in a sense because you never really know about a guy Paulo until push comes to shove. Maybe that same guy you criticize about what you perceive as the guy with stupid could be the same guy alone on the dock when heavy weather blows. He won't be so stupid anymore, but a friend in need.


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## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> :laugher i hadn't realized that was an age old question. i'm not so sure it was him asking 'is it considered' that sparked the long discussion and fervor. i think it's that word 'lame'. in modern society, that is an absolute judgement; just as good or evil are absolute judgements. i am sure he was asking what people thought about flying flags because he was afraid to appear lame. however, asking 'is it considered lame' is asking for others to pass judgement, rather than post opinions. so that, if i fly a pirate flag and you say that is lame you are not simply saying that you do not like to fly a pirate flag or that you do not think it's a good idea. you are passing judgement on me because you are judging my actions.
> 
> i, for one, am glad that he worded it that way. it has been an interesting and enjoyable conversation. as has been noted, it's been like a group of buddies sitting around a bar shooting the bull. a lot of really worthy conversations, sometimes containing some deep thoughts and ideas, start as a silly topic in just such a BS session. if, instead of an on-line thread, i had actually been sitting and enjoying a few drinks with you guys, and we had this discussion, i'd have considered it a fun evening.


Interesting --- I thought the discussion had been going on for several days...but I think I will open a brew and say it was a night...

Heck it took me about one night to read the essays that Manatee posted links to.


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## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> Interesting --- I thought the discussion had been going on for several days...but I think I will open a brew and say it was a night...
> 
> Heck it took me about one night to read the essays that Manatee posted links to.


well....yeah....that's the nature of on line threads, is it not? instead of a few hours conversation, you get a week long conversation. of course, considering the distance we all live from one another, if it were not for the internet, we'd have had no conversation at all. but there is a nice element, of human companionship, i find missing on-line. i'd prefer it if we were all sitting in a pub shooting the bull. then i'd let you buy me a beer.


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## Andrew65

captain jack said:


> well....yeah....that's the nature of on line threads, is it not? instead of a few hours conversation, you get a week long conversation. of course, considering the distance we all live from one another, if it were not for the internet, we'd have had no conversation at all. but there is a nice element, of human companionship, i find missing on-line. i'd prefer it if we were all sitting in a pub shooting the bull. then i'd let you buy me a beer.


I would of bought a round. This was hilarious. Made my weekend shooting the sh#t fun.


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## titustiger27

Andrew65 said:


> I would of bought a round. This was hilarious. Made my weekend shooting the sh#t fun.


you would have... how is the beer there?

Here is a funny story. I went to Lillehammer in 1994. I was working for a small newspaper in Lake Placid... Well it was the end of my career since the new editor didn't like me.... anyhow.. I got media credentials that I couldn't use, but to watch the Olympics (that was fun).

But I went on two dollars a day. I ate ramen noodles for breakfast and dinner and tried to scam food from the VIP tents....during the day. Also, Coke products were everywhere and I drank as much as I could (It was ironic to leave the closing ceremony to see someone had made Solo in lights and to find it was the Norwegian soda)

I went to a rave and ate a hotdog, that was my sole food and drink experience.

People afterwards would ask me what food was like and all I could say was: "The ramens that I brought weren't too bad"

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


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## captain jack

PCP said:


> How can the truth and a honest response to a question :*"saying taste grows with education is rather subjective. grows, in whose judgement?"* be pretentious?
> 
> You can disagree that we learn how to see and judge things in what regards quality and taste but pretentious? Do you men that my profession was a pretentious one? Did you not have art teachers in your education?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


that raises a serious issue that i would love to address. but first, i just realized, your screen name is PCP. i am so used to seeing you called by and sign your real name it hadn't even occurred to me. do you know that, in the US at least, PCP is another name for angel dust, a seriously hard ( and often dangerous ) drug? how funny that is. ironic in a way.

anyhow, about art teachers.

back in college i was an art major. i spent my whole younger life grooming to be an artist. it's funny how seldom life goes as we plan. i took commercial art 1 at the same time i was taking drawing and painting 1. the latter was a requirement for the former but i was in a hurry and i asked the professor if i could take them at the same time. after looking at my portfolio, he agreed to it.

his name was wendell poindexter. no kidding. i know that sounds like i made it up but i didn't. he was a commercial artist, as well as a professor. he was also very sure that his taste was the only real taste.

one of our assignments was to take several textures ( skin, feathers, fur, and scales ) and combine them in a piece. i was in an odd sexually rebelious stage then, not that i'm that different now:laugher, and i did a strongly suggestive piece. my subject was a winged woman. i used a model from a Hustler magazine, as inspiration, to get a really sexual position. she was arranged so that it was a full frontal. while obviosly a sexual position, it wasn't a totally inconceivable flying position. her right leg crossed over the left. not bad for decency's sake.

i dressed her in a small fur loin cloth. i spent hours drawing and shading ( pen and ink. cross hatching )each and every feather of her wings. they were very powerfully emotive eagle wings. in her left hand was a unicorn's horn ( a phallic symbol ) and between her legs flew a winged serpent ( scales ); not in a lewd manner but i believe the symbolism is clear.

because she was done in a full frontal position, i put a wing on each side of her. if you were to look at a flying bird sand see a full frontal it would be because you were looking up at it and you'd see a wing on each side. it just happens to be a scientific fact that there must be a wing on each side ( and not two wings on the same side ) for something to fly. look at any flying creature or machine and you will see this.

wendell told me i should put both wings on the same side. well, i thought that was ridiculous. i explained to him why they were on opposite sides. it was quite straight forward and according to the laws of physics. but he insisted they should be on the same side.

it was my vision. my art. not his. but, he felt his judgement of art was superior and didn't take it well thsat my piece stayed just the way i had created it. he gave me a C+ and made sure i knew it was only because i didn't change the wings. it would have been an A+ if i had given in to his taste. but that's not what art is about. my art is my vision. i will not have my vision subverted by some pretentious butthole who thinks he is the only one with artistic taste.

wendell was full of himself and his greatness. he thought the fact that he was a commercial artist made him something better than anyone else. made his artistic vision better than anyone else's.

that's the worst thing i think that i see art teachers do. they destroy the imagination and vision of their students because they only see value in their own vision.

thankfully, my first art teacher was not such a man. he was an amazing art teacher that brought out the creativity of his students. he is still an archetypical figure in my life. to this day, when i run into him it's like running into... i don't know...for a minute, it is like standing before some sort of figure from legend. he had such meaning and influence on my life that he is more than just a person to me. it always takes me a minute to set aside the awe struck mind of the child and act with the social adroitness of an adult. i will forever be in his debt and will always cherish his memory. he is how art teachers should be.


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## titustiger27

If you really know physics.. I wonder if angels had wings on their backs, could they really fly?

I had a similar experience when I took a writing/PR course in college and the teacher wanted us to make a poster for MTV where we made up our own ad campaign (this was in the late 80's and MTV was only music. This wasn't a professor teaching the course but an advertising copy writer.

I made a campaign "See the music" since MTV was videos and more than just listening to the music. He told me that it was stupid: "See the music, that doesn't make sense."

I wouldn't change and I think I got a low B for the course. I have never liked Ad Execs since theren

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


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## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> you would have... how is the beer there?
> 
> Here is a funny story. I went to Lillehammer in 1994. I was working for a small newspaper in Lake Placid...


wait. wasn't there a giant alligator in that lake? oh, right :laugher that was a movie with Bridget Fonda (totally hot )


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## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> wait. wasn't there a giant alligator in that lake? oh, right :laugher that was a movie with Bridget Fonda (totally hot )


Not filmed in Lake Placid... Lake Placid, CT --- but playing off the LP name.

long story --- shorten --- I am in a committee for marketing the county where I worked.. We came up with three ad campaigns for the town... In the discussions they wrote some copy: "Placid lakes" and I suggested we not use anything that reminds people of Lake Placid.

I was told I worry too much about Lake Placid

two months latter Lake Placid (under the name of a consortium) put in a bid to run the marketing of the county the town is in.

I remind them that we needed to watch out for LP and the response was: "You did?"

People like to be right, until they are wrong --- then they pretend they don't know what you are talking about.

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


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## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> If you really know physics.. I wonder if angels had wings on their backs, could they really fly?


well, the wing surface does have to be on either side of the body or the flying object would spiral down like a maple leaf. however, angels, as drawn, cold never exist. for one thing, there is no extra musculature for the wings. notice that flying animals have well developed chest and shoulder muscles. angels just have normal human musculature.

body weight would be an issue. most flying animals have hollow bones. pterasaurs had hollow bones but they had fine interior 'webbing' inside the bone, instead of being completely hollow, that added structural integrity without adding too much weight. an excellent design. in order to fly, angels would need some form of hollowed bones. plus, they would have to crap a lot. carrying a lot of waste matter adds weight. that's why birds crap all the time.

the final problem would be balance. angels have bird wings but no tail feathers. the balance would not allow them to fly. animals without tail feathers, like bats and pterosaurs, have wing membranes that extend farther towards the rear of the body, often attached to the legs.

insects don't have tail wing surfaces but, their bodies are balanced for this and insect flight doesn't work exactly the same as other animal flight. insects are much more complicated; very well designed flyers. there was an article in a science magazine, recently, about robot insects that fly like real insects. it really goes in depth about the miracle of insect flight and how it goes contradictory to much of what we assumed about the physics of flight. all very interesting. stuff we truly only recently understood and are still learning about.

science and physics do not have all of the answers, yet. much of what we assume to be fact is really theory. just like much of what we 'know' of the physics of sailing is actually the physics of slow flight applied to water, because water is also a fluid. however, water is a very special fluid with it's own qualities. properties which make things on this planet possible. since sailing is not a relevant thing, except for play, science has not spent the time to truly understand sailing as they have to understand flight.

even much of what is commonly assumed as fact is really myth. if you look on the net you will see lots of people who are 'authorities' on sailing, or even flight, trying to explain how lift is generated...and teaching totally incorrect information. but i digress.

the long and short? no. as depicted, angels could not fly.


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## randyrhines

I need to replace my old standard horizon instruments with new , not to expensive ones, speed ,depth, wind, any suggestions under $1,500.00 could I squeeze a chartplotter in for that, assuming of course I will continue to fly the Jolly...???
help!


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## blt2ski

Took an art teacher or two to help myself and daughter get need skills per say to design my personalized Pirate flag.........

See avitar.....I won a bottle of rum from having it made etc too!

Marty


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## blt2ski

captain jack said:


> well, the wing surface does have to be on either side of the body or the flying object would spiral down like a maple leaf. however, angels, as drawn, cold never exist. for one thing, there is no extra musculature for the wings. notice that flying animals have well developed chest and shoulder muscles. angels just have normal human musculature.
> 
> body weight would be an issue. most flying animals have hollow bones. pterasaurs had hollow bones but they had fine interior 'webbing' inside the bone, instead of being completely hollow, that added structural integrity without adding too much weight. an excellent design. in order to fly, angels would need some form of hollowed bones. plus, they would have to crap a lot. carrying a lot of waste matter adds weight. that's why birds crap all the time.
> 
> the final problem would be balance. angels have bird wings but no tail feathers. the balance would not allow them to fly. animals without tail feathers, like bats and pterosaurs, have wing membranes that extend farther towards the rear of the body, often attached to the legs.
> 
> insects don't have tail wing surfaces but, their bodies are balanced for this and insect flight doesn't work exactly the same as other animal flight. insects are much more complicated; very well designed flyers. there was an article in a science magazine, recently, about robot insects that fly like real insects. it really goes in depth about the miracle of insect flight and how it goes contradictory to much of what we assumed about the physics of flight. all very interesting. stuff we truly only recently understood and are still learning about.
> 
> science and physics do not have all of the answers, yet. much of what we assume to be fact is really theory. just like much of what we 'know' of the physics of sailing is actually the physics of slow flight applied to water, because water is also a fluid. however, water is a very special fluid with it's own qualities. properties which make things on this planet possible. since sailing is not a relevant thing, except for play, science has not spent the time to truly understand sailing as they have to understand flight.
> 
> even much of what is commonly assumed as fact is really myth. if you look on the net you will see lots of people who are 'authorities' on sailing, or even flight, trying to explain how lift is generated...and teaching totally incorrect information. but i digress.
> 
> the long and short? no. as depicted, angels could not fly.


Bumble bee's can not fly according to physics either..........so from that, IF angels did exist, my swag would be they would fly. but then, I am not physicist either......so my vote is probably wrong, not worthy of, and all of them fun things.

I will not fly a typical pirate flag, but do fly my personal made and designed one without thinking twice. As the real pirates from the 1700's etc, all had there OWN flag, much like a country has their own flag. For me, my personal pirate flag per say, is no different than a club burgee, state or province flag, country flag, school favorite sports team flag.....etc etc. If you want to fly an atypical skull and cross bones......lame!

Marty


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## captain jack

blt2ski said:


> Bumble bee's can not fly according to physics either..........so from that, IF angels did exist, my swag would be they would fly. but then, I am not physicist either......so my vote is probably wrong, not worthy of, and all of them fun things.
> 
> Marty


quite right. the reason old school physics showed that bumble bees couldn't fly, when we all know they can, is because physics assumes constant fluid flow around the wings. that is one basic assumption of the explanation of lift. however, recent in depth study of insect flight, which has only been possible due to technological developments, have shown that the flow is not constant around insect wings. this changes the concept of lift generation, at least asfar as such wings are concerned.

physics also predicted that, because of the muscle mass weight to wingspan ratios, condors were the largest possible flying animals. then pteranodons were discovered, with their 15 foot wing spans. so, physics expanded their rule to say that they were the largest possible flying animals.

then they discovered quetzalcoatlas, with it's 30 foot wing span.

nature is more marvelous than humans presently have the ability to understand. new things are learned or discovered every year. in the meantime, our kds are taught that our present theories are hard fact. so, most adults go through life thinking the science they learned as kids was actually true and their kids learn a totally different scientific 'fact'.

this s not to say that science has no answers. we create new inventions that seem to work by the theories we believe, even if those theories are proven wrong later. in some ways, it really is not necessary to know why something works in order to make it work. it is only necessary to know that it does work.

people were sailing for centuries before anyone had any idea about aerodynamics.

but the flight of angels, as depicted, is impossible for reasons other than lift generation. n my post about that, you might note that none of the reasons have to do with the physics of aerodynamics...except the question of a balanced wing plan ( no tail feathers ).


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## blt2ski

ah yes, the rule of how science changes, but does not in reality. Like when I was in college studying botony/horticulture, there were two kingdoms of animals and plants........ my youngest daughter comes home from jr high science class proclaiming there is three other kingdoms, so a total of 5?!?!? iirc from 10 or so yrs ago.......The plant kingdom had been split from how I remembered it. Some of the things like algae now had its own kingdom, and was not part of the plant kingdom.....hmmmmm.....

well any who........

Angels could be the same way, have hollow bones, magic flying dust, muscles that are not shown or known about, or some other thing we do not know today. Then again, it could be they are aliens, and the people at the time had to explain things as they knew it, and these beings got wings! even tho they may have had a jet pack or equal......

That is my story, I'm sticken to it, even if proven wrong over the nxt 5 min or longer! With a major big grin here! adn raising of my beer mug!

Marty


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## jrd22

Arrrrrrgh! 53 pages discussin' about whether somethin that's totally lame....is lame? Must be winter)


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## blt2ski

You were not out sailing this weekend JRD!!! yumping yiminy! or is that arrrrrrg!

Both days would have been nice out, yeah a bit cold.....but still sunny and 8-12 knots of wind........on the first part of january vs back east.......gotta like this place!

marty


----------



## captain jack

blt2ski said:


> You were not out sailing this weekend JRD!!! yumping yiminy! or is that arrrrrrg!
> 
> Both days would have been nice out, yeah a bit cold.....but still sunny and 8-12 knots of wind........on the first part of january vs back east.......gotta like this place!
> 
> marty


yeah. it wasn't nice, here. hard to believe i was sailing just 5 days ago.


----------



## Andrew65

It's so warm up here l got some varnishing done! Warmest winter in 100 years.


----------



## Andrew65

...and for my science comment, l still think Pluto is a planet even though that's been changed too.


----------



## captain jack

Andrew65 said:


> ...and for my science comment, l still think Pluto is a planet even though that's been changed too.


a planet? I thought he was Mickey's dog!:laugher


----------



## Andrew65

captain jack said:


> a planet? I thought he was Mickey's dog!:laugher


Why did l know that was going to follow my comment...


----------



## titustiger27

who's dog is Goofy

come on someone must have a goofy dog


----------



## Andrew65

My girlfriend's dog. Me


----------



## titustiger27

there is a punch line in that...I heard your girl friend was nuts... or just freaking goofy


----------



## Andrew65

Lol, l figured l'd beat you guys to it. ln the joke thread, there is one about mickey on trial. That's a funny thread.


----------



## titustiger27

I though *THIS* was the joke thread... There are two lame pirate flag threads...?

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## Andrew65

Yeah, l got a good laugh out of it.


----------



## GeorgeB

In response to the no top tier racer displaying the jolly roger, I submit the following; Paul Cayard and the Black Pearl in the 2006 Volvo. They had the jolly roger plastered all over their boat including their battle flag as shown below.










Paulo, did I read correctly that you are a retired art teacher? Primary or secondary schools? Have you posted samples of your artwork on-line?


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> who's dog is Goofy
> 
> come on someone must have a goofy dog


lot's of people's dogs are goofy. dogs tend to be goofy. one of the many reasons i prefer cats':laugher

seriously, though, Goofy isn't anyone's dog. he's a 'person' like Mickey. i know it's not logical; one dog is a dog and one dog is a person. but it IS a cartoon and not reality......i think

heck! i just noticed the little blue type, in the quote. Titus beat me to it!


----------



## captain jack

speaking of cartoon characters, did anyone else notice that the cartoon Kim Basinger, in cool world, was hotter than the real woman? how wrong is that? lol


----------



## titustiger27

No, but I do now (don't have a tv)


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


----------



## blt2ski

George,

AGAIN, as I tried to state earlier, the flag that you refer to, is "THAT" boats own flag. I would imagine that some of the other V70 boats have a sponsor per say, and they fly a flag/burgee etc that represents the sponsor per say.....

ANyway, not sure whom is cuter, the cartoon WInston in the avitar flag, or him himself.....









Marty


----------



## titustiger27

blt2ski said:


> George,
> 
> AGAIN, as I tried to state earlier, the flag that you refer to, is "THAT" boats own flag. I would imagine that some of the other V70 boats have a sponsor per say, and they fly a flag/burgee etc that represents the sponsor per say.....
> 
> ANyway, not sure whom is cuter, the cartoon WInston in the avitar flag, or him himself.....
> 
> Marty


So if you go to West Marine and buy a jolly rogers it's lame, but if you make or design your own it isn't lame?
_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## blt2ski

titustiger27 said:


> So if you go to West Marine and buy a jolly rogers it's lame, but if you make or design your own it isn't lame?
> _____
> Titus Tiger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rock the rogers


Yep, That is my story, and I am sticken to it!

I suppose I could fly Blackbeards flag, being as a GGGG uncle was crew for him......but that would be boring......

I'll stick with me winston flag......oh by the way, Mr Winston is a slow deadly creature, will lick you to death.......but it will be SLOOOOOOOOOOOOW and painfull!


----------



## captain jack

blt2ski said:


> George,
> 
> AGAIN, as I tried to state earlier, the flag that you refer to, is "THAT" boats own flag. I would imagine that some of the other V70 boats have a sponsor per say, and they fly a flag/burgee etc that represents the sponsor per say.....
> 
> ANyway, not sure whom is cuter, the cartoon WInston in the avitar flag, or him himself.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marty


i beg to differ with you. that flag looks like the image from 'pirates of the caribbean' to me. the boat's name is certainly from it. that would mean it's not a flag specifically designed for that boat.


----------



## Afrakes

If it makes my 6 year old grandson happy and want to go sailing, It's not too lame. Al Frakes, Port Kent on the beautiful shores of Lake Champlain.


----------



## titustiger27

Afrakes said:


> If it makes my 6 year old grandson happy and want to go sailing, It's not too lame. Al Frakes, Port Kent on the beautiful shores of Lake Champlain.


Hey Mr. Frakes, practically neighbors... Tri-lakes..


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> No, but I do now (don't have a tv)
> 
> 
> __
> Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
> Show Content


you have to see her in action to appreciate just how sexy that cartoon chick really is


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> you have to see her in action to appreciate just how sexy that cartoon chick really is


maybe I will look that up... I find it interesting that the actress has a cartoon image of herself....that is half her age.

Like you said, I don't believe when she was the age of her cartoon she was as attractive as the comic character/

Edit: I remember younger Kim Basinger... she had flaws and that worked... cartoon does not


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> maybe I will look that up... I find it interesting that the actress has a cartoon image of herself....that is half her age.
> 
> Like you said, I don't believe when she was the age of her cartoon she was as attractive as the comic character/
> 
> Edit: I remember younger Kim Basinger... she had flaws and that worked... cartoon does not


'cool world' is a cool movie. both the cartoon kim and the real kim are in the movie. you get to compare them. cartoon kim wins. not only in looks but in seductiveness, too.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> 'cool world' is a cool movie. both the cartoon kim and the real kim are in the movie. you get to compare them. cartoon kim wins. not only in looks but in seductiveness, too.


I stumbled upon a mixed media series Tainted Love... that might be the same...

TAINTED LOVE: A GRAPHIC NOVEL ACTION COMEDY


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> I stumbled upon a mixed media series Tainted Love... that might be the same...
> 
> TAINTED LOVE: A GRAPHIC NOVEL ACTION COMEDY


that sounds cool. i will have to check it out. cool song, too. both the original and the redo by manson.

it's funny. i am having two different conversations with you at the same time. how oddly the internet affects human interactions.


----------



## captain jack

thanks, man. tainted love is pretty cool. good art. super hot chick. it's a real hoot.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> that sounds cool. i will have to check it out. cool song, too. both the original and the redo by manson.
> 
> it's funny. i am having two different conversations with you at the same time. how oddly the internet affects human interactions.


I have this theory that you pick your sports teams when you are 10-12 years old and by who is the champion. The fact that the Detroit Tigers was my dad's team was a small part, but the fact they won the world series in 1968 cemented it...

My point --- I really started to understand/Love music when Tainted Love/Soft Cell was big --- long version into "where did the love go" song.. the synth drum sound. It wasn't my favorite song of the time, but when I hear it, all of the 80s come back


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> I have this theory that you pick your sports teams when you are 10-12 years old and by who is the champion. The fact that the Detroit Tigers was my dad's team was a small part, but the fact they won the world series in 1968 cemented it...
> 
> My point --- I really started to understand/Love music when Tainted Love/Soft Cell was big --- long version into "where did the love go" song.. the synth drum sound. It wasn't my favorite song of the time, but when I hear it, all of the 80s come back
> 
> GLORIA JONES- "TAINTED LOVE" (1964) - YouTube


thanks for the link. always loved that song. funny thing is, i thought the soft cell version was the original.


----------



## titustiger27

No problem --- stumbled upon it when I was looking for the web series


----------



## captain jack

it's seriously off topic but i just finished watching season one of tainted love. pretty awesome.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> it's seriously off topic but i just finished watching season one of tainted love. pretty awesome.


it's the only season so far right... I am sure Orlando would fly a pirate flag

_____
Titus Tiger








Rock the rogers


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> it's the only season so far right... I am sure Orlando would fly a pirate flag
> 
> _____
> Titus Tiger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rock the rogers


yes. if he wouldn't i know for sure she would.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> yes. if he wouldn't i know for sure she would.


and he would suffer the consequence ;-)


----------



## titustiger27

On Point just had a pirate story

Blackbeard And The Golden Age Of Pirates | On Point with Tom Ashbrook


----------



## DJR351

Nothing wrong with flying a Pirate flag at all....


----------



## VallelyJ

Wrong?--no. Totally harmless.
Lame? (OP: "Is it considered lame...?")--Yep, kind of. Might have looked 'bad' the first ten thousand times, but now you look like one of those guys who use a stubble razor.
How about a Somalian courtesy flag? 
JV


----------



## blutoyz

I not only fly the jolly roger...i even play this game


----------



## rgscpat

Flying a pirate flag while putting up absolutely no resistance to being boarded by the US Coast Guard or equivalent agency is lame. 

Resisting being boarded by the US Coast Guard while flying a pirate flag is potentially an excellent entry submission in competition for the Darwin Awards.


----------



## VallelyJ

No offense--looks like a good game, but the 18th-century pirate wearing a hoodie? Gimme a break. Does he have a neck tattoo and say, 'Yo, wassup" a lot? 
L-word.
A pirate flag just doesn't mean what it used to.


----------



## blutoyz

VallelyJ said:


> No offense--looks like a good game, but the 18th-century pirate wearing a hoodie? Gimme a break. Does he have a neck tattoo and say, 'Yo, wassup" a lot?
> L-word.
> A pirate flag just doesn't mean what it used to.


If you don't know the game I can understand the "hoodie" remark. There are many things that one could call lame but to answer the original question. The only thing lame in this situation are the people that think that they can tell you what you should fly on YOUR boat.


----------



## Joel H.

To the OP; not lame. The word is........TIRED! As in exhausted, weary, worn-out, wasted, etc...etc....


----------



## manatee

Joel H. said:


> To the OP; not lame. The word is........TIRED! As in exhausted, weary, worn-out, wasted, etc...etc....


It may be all that to you but not to the OP and his friends. Didn't anyone read "Swallows And Amazons"? Where's your sense of fun? When did sailing become such serious business that you can't afford to risk giving someone something to grin at?

"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing."


----------



## captain jack

manatee said:


> It may be all that to you but not to the OP and his friends. Didn't anyone read "Swallows And Amazons"? Where's your sense of fun? When did sailing become such serious business that you can't afford to risk giving someone something to grin at?
> 
> "We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing."







you may like this, then. ignore the old guy. he's a mixture of useful info and misinformation.


----------



## manatee

captain jack said:


> Swallows and Amazons Dinghy sails on the River Thames - YouTube
> 
> you may like this, then. ignore the old guy. he's a mixture of useful info and misinformation.


Many thanks! I'll be grinning all day thinking of that video.

The Nancy Blackett, Ransome's own boat and inspiration for the good ship Goblin in "We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea", has a  preservation trust.









*Nancy Blackett*

My favorite ship of the books is Wild Cat, the schooner from "Peter Duck".


----------



## capt vimes

notice the pirate flag...


----------



## krisscross

My favorite bada$$ flag:


----------



## capt vimes

At least it has not the black/white/red background of the original which would be not well received in all of europe...


----------



## captain jack

capt vimes said:


> At least it has not the black/white/red background of the original which would be not well received in all of europe...


you are mistaking the iron cross, which that is, for the swastika, which it's not.

iron cross: used by Germany during WW2 also given, in America, as the army marksmanship medal.

swastika: ancient holy symbol of many cultures. pre-runic holy symbol to the Germanic tribes. stolen by Hitler, like certain runes, to use for propaganda effect as a symbol of his NAZI party, during a time of German interest in the Germanic migration/heroic age, to give his national socialist party the 'mojo' of heroic legend.


----------



## capt vimes

believe me, i know what that is and what a swastika looks like...
i am talking about number 4 here (1st from the left, second row):
and trust me on this one: nobody wants to see those flags ever again here in europe!








the admirals, commodores flag and the pennants from my image are still in use nowadays but all the others have gone and are banished, if i may say so...

edit: changed image, the first one was too big...


----------



## captain jack

capt vimes said:


> believe me, i know what that is and what a swastika looks like...
> i am talking about number 4 here (1st from the left, second row):
> and trust me on this one: nobody wants to see those flags ever again here in europe!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the admirals, commodores flag and the pennants from my image are still in use nowadays but all the others have gone and are banished, if i may say so...
> 
> edit: changed image, the first one was too big...


got you. thought you were talking about this one:

[URL="


----------



## krisscross

German military still uses the black iron cross as it's main insignia:










There is nothing to be ashamed of when flying the Iron Cross flag. I think it is way cooler than the pirate flag. My great grandfather earned his EK in WWI and it is still in my family.


----------



## captain jack

the iron cross, also called a maltese cross, is a fairly wide spread symbol that, like the swastika, has it's origins in ancient prechristian culture. while the swastika evolved from the sun wheel and showed heavenly of cthonic energies depending on whilch was it spun, the iron cross evolved from the equal arm cross, which was a symbol of the earth.

and i agree. no shame in the iron cross. like i said, the US Army still uses them. i have my father's marksmenship medal, an iron cross, on my zippo lighter.


----------



## Multihullgirl

Ostpreußen!


----------



## Dave_E

capt vimes said:


> notice the pirate flag...
> "Ode to the Credit Card Captains" 2014 Edition, Anegada, British Virgin Islands, Caribbean - YouTube


That's enough to give Pirate flags a bad name! (Maybe Pirates too, I think they were good sailors).


----------



## Dave_E

krisscross said:


> My favorite bada$$ flag:


Do you have one of these? Where did you get it?


----------



## krisscross

Dave_E said:


> Do you have one of these? Where did you get it?


I sure do. The cheapest one is here:
https://www.denniskirk.com/atlantis/iron-cross-flag.p616988.prd/616988.sku

the flag is decent size 12" x 18"


----------



## VallelyJ

Nobody gives a s*** what anybody flies on his own boat.
The original question was simple: are they lame? Yes or no? Apparently the OP had some doubts.
Maybe the more sensitive buccaneers would have been happier not reading the answers.


----------



## krisscross

VallelyJ said:


> Nobody gives a s*** what anybody flies on his own boat.


Unless it is one of the distress flags, like this one:


----------



## captain jack

Multihullgirl said:


> Ostpreußen!


nice. i actually have a fridge magnet of that. it says old Germann, instead of East Prussian, at the bottom.


----------



## captain jack

krisscross said:


> I sure do. The cheapest one is here:
> https://www.denniskirk.com/atlantis/iron-cross-flag.p616988.prd/616988.sku
> 
> the flag is decent size 12" x 18"


dinnis kirk. i used to buy bike parts from them. why are they calling it an 'atlantis' iron cross?


----------



## Multihullgirl

captain jack said:


> nice. i actually have a fridge magnet of that. it says old Germann, instead of East Prussian, at the bottom.


My mother is from Königsberg, her mother was interrogated by the Gestapo, they got out


----------



## manatee

Multihullgirl said:


> My mother is from Königsberg, her mother was interrogated by the Gestapo, they got out


To which grace we owe the pleasure of your company. I'm glad they made it.


----------



## krisscross

captain jack said:


> why are they calling it an 'atlantis' iron cross?


It is made by a company called Atlantis. No mystery there.


----------



## captain jack

krisscross said:


> It is made by a company called Atlantis. No mystery there.


lol. ok. that explains it. i should have taken time to read the ad. i thought they were saying it was the flag used by the lost civilization of Atlantis.


----------



## rgscpat

You'd think an iron cross would rust under the ocean surface in Atlantis. But maybe it would turn into a coral cross.


----------



## manatee

rgscpat said:


> You'd think an iron cross would rust under the ocean surface in Atlantis. But maybe it would turn into a coral cross.


Atlantis is supposed to be technologically advanced; maybe they make really good bottom paint.


----------



## captain jack

[URL="


----------



## titustiger27

If it is lame to fly a pirate flag.. must be okay to have a skipper's cap


----------



## Multihullgirl

I have a friend who had a really colorful name for the 'captain's hat' but I guess I can't repeat it here...


----------



## titustiger27

Multihullgirl said:


> I have a friend who had a really colorful name for the 'captain's hat' but I guess I can't repeat it here...


is it colorful _*AND*_

flattering??


----------



## Don L

skipper caps are also lame!


----------



## titustiger27

Don0190 said:


> skipper caps are also lame!


So Tilley© or nothing?

Nude is lame too.


----------



## Andrew65

Do tell, do tell.


----------



## Multihullgirl

I'll try: "[email protected]^ck3r hat"

I now just can't wear one, even for Hallowe'en. Tolja it was ugly....


----------



## titustiger27

Multihullgirl said:


> I'll try: "[email protected]^ck3r hat"
> 
> I now just can't wear one, even for Hallowe'en. Tolja it was ugly....


Clearly a big fan of the Village People

In the navy


----------



## Whitebread117

It's been said, but it should be repeated:

If you feel the need to ask if it's lame, then yes it's lame -for you. If you have the personality to pull it off you wouldn't be asking in the first place.


----------



## titustiger27

Whitebread117 said:


> It's been said, but it should be repeated:
> 
> If you feel the need to ask if it's lame, then yes it's lame -for you. If you have the personality to pull it off you wouldn't be asking in the first place.


So I am okay with a Captain's hat (and a pirate flag), but if I want to know the opinion of others... then I instantly become lame.

This theory doesn't work for me... but I am afraid to ask what others might think


----------



## Minnewaska

Just because one asks does not define one as believing the flags and hats are lame. However, the notion that they need to know what others think is pretty lame.

and yes, most think the flag and hat are lame too.

In fact, engaging in this discussion is lame.


----------



## titustiger27

Not engaging and letting the word win without a debate

is so un-60's

I question what is lame and let you say why... but I sit back and think why not


----------



## T37Chef

Pirate flags are lame IMO


----------



## Scotty C-M

Both the hat and the flag are lame. I use both because it (they) appeal to my sense of humor. Which is also lame.


----------



## titustiger27

Scotty C-M said:


> Both the hat and the flag are lame. I use both because it (they) appeal to my sense of humor. Which is also lame.


If you can entertain yourself -- you are self-sufficient


----------



## sneuman

yes.


----------



## goboatingnow

Very lame, and should result in keel hauling and other forms of punishment.


----------



## randyrhines

No it is not Lame. It is just fun. Who here is qualified to say? Judging the well intended fun-loveing actions of others flying The Jolly. 
My boat i will paint it whatever colour i like (with the wife's approval....) fly whatever flag i want, please be encouraged to do the same, there is no elected body to govern this action, just opinions being tossed about by winded, lol!
It raises an all important question for sure, Who cares? 
sincerely
President elect of The Chuckling Sailors Committee
The Right Honourable Randy R. Hines 

The C.S.C. is the governing body and defender of the faith of Chuckling sailors everywhere and anywhere who print , blog or BS about matters concerning the code of sailors flying the Jolly Roger.
Founded on this day in History Sept. 26, In the year of our Lord 2014
BS is the official abbreviation for Bullshipping, which is the ability to hold captive an audience of any size while embellishing, without actually lying about the facts of given story or adventure at sea.
Master Bullshipping certificates are also awarded by The Right Honourable 
Randy R. Hines by email request only........


----------



## Bill-Rangatira

in a word - yes 
in two words your choice
in many words if you like to fly a flag then have fun and enjoy its your boat after all


----------



## randyrhines

did i knot jus say th same thing ?


----------



## titustiger27

randyrhines said:


> No it is not Lame. It is just fun. Who here is qualified to say? Judging the well intended fun-loveing actions of others flying The Jolly.
> My boat i will paint it whatever colour i like (with the wife's approval....) fly whatever flag i want, please be encouraged to do the same, there is no elected body to govern this action, just opinions being tossed about by winded, lol!
> It raises an all important question for sure, Who cares?
> sincerely
> President elect of The Chuckling Sailors Committee
> The Right Honourable Randy R. Hines
> 
> The C.S.C. is the governing body and defender of the faith of Chuckling sailors everywhere and anywhere who print , blog or BS about matters concerning the code of sailors flying the Jolly Roger.
> Founded on this day in History Sept. 26, In the year of our Lord 2014
> BS is the official abbreviation for Bullshipping, which is the ability to hold captive an audience of any size while embellishing, without actually lying about the facts of given story or adventure at sea.
> Master Bullshipping certificates are also awarded by The Right Honourable
> Randy R. Hines by email request only........


csc is in google
https://www.google.com/search?q=Chu...TF-8#safe=off&q="Chuckling+Sailors+Committee"


----------



## genieskip

radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG


Yes


----------



## Squidd

I used to think so....till I got mine....now it's cool
Surrender the Booty


----------



## titustiger27

Now I realize that when you fly the Jolly Rogers, besides the pure fun of the folly, you also get to be amused by those judgmental sorts with tight sphincters......hmmm that would be an interesting flag in itself


----------



## titustiger27

Squidd said:


> I used to think so....till I got mine....now it's cool
> Surrender the Booty


that is a very cool avatar


----------



## BoxedUp

When sailing in the BVI, flying a pirate flag is almost required. As far as the Skipper's hat, I was just at a concert by Yacht Rock Revue and you felt out of place if you weren't wearing one!


----------



## Minnewaska

BoxedUp said:


> When sailing in the BVI, flying a pirate flag is almost required........


The BVIs were indeed the stomping grounds of real pirates in the day. Blackbeard among them.

While I'm sure there have been a few JRs around, I can't say I've ever noticed one to consider them required.


----------



## killarney_sailor

The question was asked and 624 replies later it is still being discussed. Don't you guys have a bottom to paint or brightwork to do?


----------



## titustiger27

BoxedUp said:


> When sailing in the BVI, flying a pirate flag is almost required. As far as the Skipper's hat, I was just at a concert by Yacht Rock Revue and you felt out of place if you weren't wearing one!


do you have a picture of that --- sounds kind of funny

this video has some of the captain's hats


----------



## Minnesail

BoxedUp said:


> As far as the Skipper's hat, I was just at a concert by Yacht Rock Revue and you felt out of place if you weren't wearing one!


Is this you?


----------



## Krisan

Ahoy there, I must say Pirate flags are the tops.


----------



## titustiger27

I think Josh Slocum flew one in his Dinghy


----------



## BoxedUp

titustiger27 said:


> do you have a picture of that --- sounds kind of funny
> 
> this video has some of the captain's hats
> 
> Yacht Rock Revue - "Rich Girl" - YouTube


That's a fairly good representation of the captain's hats in attendance.


----------



## BoxedUp

Minnesail said:


> Is this you?


Nope, my mustache matches my goatee...


----------



## titustiger27

BoxedUp said:


> That's a fairly good representation of the captain's hats in attendance.


how lame --- they are all white... ;-)


----------



## WindchaserPY23

I must say that reading 64 pages of "deep and meaningful dialogue" is a good cure for insomnia.
With the exception of flying your colours (national flag) respectfully, I doubt if the flag police will board your ship, pull the buttons off your tunic, break your sword and banish you from the marina.
Worrying about what others think about you is in of itself lame.

Capt ed


----------



## BoxedUp

titustiger27 said:


> how lame --- they are all white... ;-)


That's the only color they sell at the concession stand. $10, reasonably priced compared to some of the concert T-shirts I've purchased in the past.


----------



## WGEwald

All "novelty flags" are lame. My uncle was a Power Squadron member (NNJ) for over 60 years and people were always giving him those things. He flew the national ensign, his flag of rank, his personal signal or a club burgee and that was all.


----------



## BoxedUp

WGEwald said:


> All "novelty flags" are lame. My uncle was a Power Squadron member (NNJ) for over 60 years and people were always giving him those things. He flew the national ensign, his flag of rank, his personal signal or a club burgee and that was all.


I am a past member of the USCGA and I also only flew the national ensign and USGGA ensign on my personal boat and when on patrol the USCGA Operational ensign. When on a chartering vacation in the BVI, I fly the following:










and when at a mooring for the evening:










Call me lame but we sure are having a heck of a good time!


----------



## PCP

That's a big thread

Look at the only boat flying a pirate's flag: Modern Pirate's style


----------



## titustiger27

PCP said:


> That's a big thread
> 
> Look at the only boat flying a pirate's flag: Modern Pirate's style


hmmm, is this proof that people with pirate flags always are bad sailors... or does it prove that people with pirate flags are the only bad sailors.

??


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## Dave_E

WGEwald said:


> All "novelty flags" are lame. My uncle was a Power Squadron member (NNJ) for over 60 years and people were always giving him those things. He flew the national ensign, his flag of rank, his personal signal or a club burgee and that was all.


In who's opinion? Yours, or your uncles? Highlight the word "opinion".


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## titustiger27

I am of the opinion that those who like flying a pirate flag (and let's be honest we are talking about it from a novelty aspect, NOT if you are a Somalian with an AR 15) are live and let live kind of people...

But I am not sure with what to say the "They are lame" folks are?


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## randyrhines

PCP said:


> That's a big thread
> 
> Look at the only boat flying a pirate's flag: Modern Pirate's style


Oh my that was a mess, and a grievous embarrassment to the Joly Roger..... Chuckles....
Thanks for sharing this one! Lol


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## randyrhines

Well uh Bob Bitchen flys the Jolly.... heres the great link , great tune and boat!



or look up Bob bitchen, The Lost Soul, Its worth a look!


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## BoxedUp

randyrhines said:


> The Lost Soul, Its worth a look!


Wow, thanks for posting. Definitely not a weekend project boat.


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## Maine Sail

Not to be stereotypical but when I see the Jolly Roger flying, these mental images sometimes pop into my mind......



















http://www.fwweekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/*******.jpg

http://www.americasbestmyspacecomments.com/graphics/*******/5/pics_redneck-granny-shorts.jpg

http://www.tcnj.edu/~hofmann/humor/Misc/*******/redneckattitude/redneck21.jpg

http://www.lilligren.com/*******/images/redneck_bass_boat.jpg

http://projectredneck.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/i-love-my-*******.jpg


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## miatapaul

Images from the mind of Maine_Sail, not a pretty sight! Glad your how to images are better!


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## SVAuspicious

randyrhines said:


> Well uh Bob Bitchen flys the Jolly.


I don't care who flies the silly thing. It's lame.

When I see one I assume they can't anchor, will probably be loud or drunk or both, and won't be good neighbors. My assumption is based on experience.

Google for Rick Moore's "Ode to Credit Card Captains."


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## therapy23

Mansail,

I am going to have to report some of those images.


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## Minnewaska

Jolly Roger = mullet

I nod and raise my eyebrows with discovery of a truth I had not previously considered.


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## T37Chef

For the record...I think this is perhaps the dumbest thread on SailNut.

Thats all, enjoy


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## Jak1

Flying a skull and crossed bones will get you derision or worse. Politeness is the rule with strangers.....smile alot, keep your hands where I can see them and out of your pockets


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## captain jack

actually, flying a jolly roger won't get you derision unless you, yourself, deserve derision. the difference between tacky and trashy or cool is all in the character of the person, not his clothes or the symbols he displays.

some people are too lame to fly a jolly roger or have skulls and chains on their riding leathers. and, if you are concerned with what other people think about your 'style', then you are too lame to fly a jolly roger (or have skulls and chains on your leathers). in fact, if you do anything...build a chopper, refit your boat, wear a certain style of clothes...with concern with how others like it... to impress them or be cool in their eyes...then you are too lame to fly a jolly roger. you should build choppers and outfit boats and choose the clothes you wear with only one person's opinion in mind: yours.

everyone seriously digs my chopper. but, although that's nice, i wouldn't care if they hated it. i built it to make me happy. it makes me happy to look at it and to ride it and, that's all that matters. you have to live your life for yourself and your own happiness. let everyone else worry about their happiness. if they don't like what you do or how you look, screw them. you don't need them.

let's face it, the jolly roger is about walking your own road. not caring about the conventions of others. it's about having the courage to live life by your own standards. if you are worried about other people thinking you are lame if you fly one, the jolly roger isn't for you.

remember, rules are made by one group of people to control other people. pirates don't follow rules. they make their own. if i decide to fly the jolly roger on Liberation (when i get her done), i won't give a barnacles behind what any of you think of it. she's my boat and it's my life. like Jimi Hendrix said," i'm the one who's got to die when it's time for me to die. let me live my life the way i want to."

so, if you do see the jolly roger flying proudly on my boat...it won't be lame.


----------



## Jak1

If you think your identity is more important than your associations and what people think of you by your behavior then you'll need a lot of luck. Piracy is not a joke, nor is it a matter of self expression unless you're a pirate.


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## Dave_E

Jak1 said:


> If you think your identity is more important than your associations and what people think of you by your behavior then you'll need a lot of luck. Piracy is not a joke, nor is it a matter of self expression unless you're a pirate.


What Capt Jack is saying is something you're not getting. He doesn't need anyone's approval to do anything. That's what's wrong in our world today... everything you say and do has to be PC approved by the masses who think they know how the world is supposed to turn.

And please tell me your not really thinking that our little pirate flag discussion here on SailNet has anything to do with "real" piracy???


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## Don L

reading various who would have known that flying a pirate flag was so zen like :laugher


----------



## SVAuspicious

captain jack said:


> let's face it, the jolly roger is about walking your own road. not caring about the conventions of others. it's about having the courage to live life by your own standards. if you are worried about other people thinking you are lame if you fly one, the jolly roger isn't for you.


Not at all. The Jolly Roger refers to the flags flown to identify a pirate ship about to attack during the early 18th century. They are the symbol of criminals and violence.

_Remember the Quest_

In today's world they are most associated with children who know no better (because their parents don't teach them properly), drunks, and those who don't see sailing as an art and science to be cherished and built upon but simply entertainment to be purchased.

I really don't care what you think of me. I'm not likely to care about what anyone that flies a pirate flag thinks. It has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with what one says about oneself.

You can add to my list of characteristics associated with the Jolly Roger closedmindedness sufficient to preclude understanding the consequences of one's actions and behaviors.

I like the Pirates of the Caribbean movies as much as the next person. Those are fantasies for entertainment and have nothing to do with the real world on the seas.

Don't sail too close - you'll receive the consequences of declaring oneself a criminal.

_Remember the Quest_


----------



## Maine Sail

SVAuspicious said:


> Not at all. The Jolly Roger refers to the flags flown to identify a pirate ship about to attack during the early 18th century. They are the symbol of criminals and violence.
> 
> _Remember the Quest_
> 
> In today's world they are most associated with children who know no better (because their parents don't teach them properly), drunks, and those who don't see sailing as an art and science to be cherished and built upon but simply entertainment to be purchased.
> 
> I really don't care what you think of me. I'm not likely to care about what anyone that flies a pirate flag thinks. It has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with what one says about oneself.
> 
> You can add to my list of characteristics associated with the Jolly Roger closedmindedness sufficient to preclude understanding the consequences of one's actions and behaviors.
> 
> I like the Pirates of the Caribbean movies as much as the next person. Those are fantasies for entertainment and have nothing to do with the real world on the seas.
> 
> Don't sail too close - you'll receive the consequences of declaring oneself a criminal.
> 
> _Remember the Quest_


As a direct descendant of the Drake family (my grandmothers maiden name was Lima Drake (Lima after one of Sir Frances 'Pirate" conquests) and my dad's middle name is Drake, though it has been nothing but D., not Drake, for the last 45 years. The Jolly Roger is offensive to myself and family in more ways than one.

My family lineage, on my fathers side, is an embarrassment to our family today. My dad and grandmother spent a good deal of time researching the lineage, and Sir Francis, and as a result the Drake family name has been dropped from our lineage for good. My dad wen to "D." on all his documents and never utters the Drake name.

He was a criminal, murderer and slave trader and that to our family erases any _good_ he did as an explorer. If Shakelton, Amundsen or Peary were in the lineage we would likely feel differently about the Jolly Roger (be _ignorant_ about its actual history, like most are) but sadly we can be tracked back to a family where piracy, slave trading and murder were accepted and inappropriately vaulted to _hero_ status.... Our understanding of the meaning of the JR hits closer to home than it does for Hollywood and most who are blind to history that is more than 100 years old...

Yes my great, great, great etc. uncle was also a capable world explorer, but a CRIMINAL as well. That aspect, the criminal portion, to our family, does not bode well and we are NOT proud of it..

The Jolly Roger to me, for the reasons outlined above, is _almost_ as offensive as the Swastika. Don't even get my father going on the Jolly Roger, you'll chew your hand off to get him to stop ranting.........

Most people I know don't _get that_ but it is not a "Joke Flag" to some of us.... Will the Swastika become a _joke flag_ or _novelty flag _400 years from now? I certainly hope not... D'oh.... Just because the JR is old, and its history _mostly_ long gone by, does not mean it is "cool"...

When I see folks fly it it screams _uneducated_ about what that flag actually stands for.... Heck some folks still fly the Swastika and think they are _cool_.... They are both in a _similar category_ of complete uncouth to our family...

Next time you fly one try to think about all those who have lost their lives at the hands of Pirates. This JR is not just about 400 year old history. One of the best & most accomplished modern day sailors of our time, Sir Peter Blake, lost his life to Pirates in 2001 as have many other fellow cruisers. Somalian pirates are in strong force even today. Piracy still happens in the Caribbean and people are still dying today at the hands of Pirates. By flying one, you are _unintentionally_ through _under education_, saying that behavior is "cool"... It is NOT cool...

A joke? A novelty? Not to me.... Uneducated about history and its true meaning? You bet....

Rant off...


----------



## UnionPacific

The first thing the pirate flag tells me is to watch out. That boat is most likely full of drunken derelicts, who know less about boating they they do about fornicating. Most likely to end up on national news as drunks crash into anchored barge in clear evening weather. I am thankful I have 2" of solid fiberglass on my bow, capped in 1/4 plate stainless steel to crush those type of boats if they head-on me.


----------



## captain jack

Jak1 said:


> If you think your identity is more important than your associations and what people think of you by your behavior then you'll need a lot of luck. Piracy is not a joke, nor is it a matter of self expression unless you're a pirate.


pirates sailing the high seas raising the jolly roger is NOT a current thing. modern pirates don't do that. flying the jolly roger is not committing an act of piracy. if that was the definition of piracy, i seriously doubt anyone would have issues with pirates.

" oh my god! he's flying a black flag with a skull and crossbones on it! that's an act of piracy! call the coast guard! call the navy! call mighty mouse! call someone! oh the humanity!"

nope. just don't see that being an international issue. i think piracy might be something other than just flying the jolly roger.

as far as the first point, i think you miss the point. if i have to pretend to be someone i am not or change who i am, in order to get someone to like me, i don't want that person as a friend because tey really don't like who i actually am. friends aren't supposed to limit or control your life. they are supposed to enrich it. your conform to be liked attitude is what causes so much roblem with many romantic relationships. people pretending to be what they are not to gain the love of someone who doesn't truly like who they actually are leads to eventual disaster. no matter how hard you try, eventually who you really are is bound to show. then you end up with a wife or girlfriend who might find out she is with someone she doesn't even like. much better to be who you are and then the people that are in your life will be true friends and your relationships will be built on truth and not lies.

of course, it takes courage to be yourself and not hide behind an image you think others will accept.

myself, i don't need to cling to other people so much that i am willing to be untrue to who i really am and subjugate my own will and liberty to the pursuit of human company. one thing for sure: i know the friends i have are true friends and like the real me. better a few true friends than a nation of people who won't like you unless you conform to their ideals.


----------



## captain jack

SVAuspicious said:


> Not at all. The Jolly Roger refers to the flags flown to identify a pirate ship about to attack during the early 18th century. They are the symbol of criminals and violence.
> 
> _Remember the Quest_
> 
> In today's world they are most associated with children who know no better (because their parents don't teach them properly), drunks, and those who don't see sailing as an art and science to be cherished and built upon but simply entertainment to be purchased.
> 
> I really don't care what you think of me. I'm not likely to care about what anyone that flies a pirate flag thinks. It has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with what one says about oneself.


i don't know if you realize it but, pollitical correctness is all about conforming to the judgement of others. you can't say what you wish, regardless of the possible truth in it, because someone somewhere might find it offensive. in this case, you shouldn't fly a pirate flag because some overly controlling uptight individual might find it offensive.



> You can add to my list of characteristics associated with the Jolly Roger closedmindedness sufficient to preclude understanding the consequences of one's actions and behaviors.


ok. i'll bite. what consequences are there to flying a jolly roger...in this century, i mean? that someone uptight and controlling might have a bad opinion of you without ever being mature enough to see who you really are? oh horror of horrors. i suppose black people should bleach their skin so backwards or racist people don't have prejudice against them, too. regardless of whose ideas you force yourself to conform to, you are always going to find someone that disapproves. perhaps we should all just hide in our houses and never come out so we don't risk being prejudged by someone.

personally, i think the consequences of bending to the will of others and being untrue to yourself are far worse.


> I like the Pirates of the Caribbean movies as much as the next person. Those are fantasies for entertainment and have nothing to do with the real world on the seas.
> 
> Don't sail too close - you'll receive the consequences of declaring oneself a criminal.
> 
> _Remember the Quest_


what quest, by the way? i am not sure we are on the same quest. my quest is to enjoy my life, be who i am, and do all i can to advance my own happiness before i die. not sure what your quest is but that's mine and, it does't cohabitat with pandering to everyone else's whims, all that well.


----------



## captain jack

Maine Sail said:


> As a direct descendant of the Drake family (my grandmothers maiden name was Lima Drake (Lima after one of Sir Frances 'Pirate" conquests) and my dad's middle name is Drake, though it has been nothing but D., not Drake, for the last 45 years. The Jolly Roger is offensive to myself and family in more ways than one.
> 
> My family lineage, on my fathers side, is an embarrassment to our family today. My dad and grandmother spent a good deal of time researching the lineage, and Sir Francis, and as a result the Drake family name has been dropped from our lineage for good. My dad wen to "D." on all his documents and never utters the Drake name.
> 
> He was a criminal, murderer and slave trader and that to our family erases any _good_ he did as an explorer. If Shakelton, Amundsen or Peary were in the lineage we would likely feel differently about the Jolly Roger (be _ignorant_ about its actual history, like most are) but sadly we can be tracked back to a family where piracy, slave trading and murder were accepted and inappropriately vaulted to _hero_ status.... Our understanding of the meaning of the JR hits closer to home than it does for Hollywood and most who are blind to history that is more than 100 years old...
> 
> Yes my great, great, great etc. uncle was also a capable world explorer, but a CRIMINAL as well. That aspect, the criminal portion, to our family, does not bode well and we are NOT proud of it..
> 
> The Jolly Roger to me, for the reasons outlined above, is _almost_ as offensive as the Swastika. Don't even get my father going on the Jolly Roger, you'll chew your hand off to get him to stop ranting.........
> 
> Most people I know don't _get that_ but it is not a "Joke Flag" to some of us.... Will the Swastika become a _joke flag_ or _novelty flag _400 years from now? I certainly hope not... D'oh.... Just because the JR is old, and its history _mostly_ long gone by, does not mean it is "cool"...
> 
> When I see folks fly it it screams _uneducated_ about what that flag actually stands for.... Heck some folks still fly the Swastika and think they are _cool_.... They are both in a _similar category_ of complete uncouth to our family...
> 
> Next time you fly one try to think about all those who have lost their lives at the hands of Pirates. This JR is not just about 400 year old history. One of the best & most accomplished modern day sailors of our time, Sir Peter Blake, lost his life to Pirates in 2001 as have many other fellow cruisers. Somalian pirates are in strong force even today. Piracy still happens in the Caribbean and people are still dying today at the hands of Pirates. By flying one, you are _unintentionally_ through _under education_, saying that behavior is "cool"... It is NOT cool...
> 
> A joke? A novelty? Not to me.... Uneducated about history and its true meaning? You bet....
> 
> Rant off...


and you are entitled to your feelings. but it doesn't mean others have to or should have to kow tow to those feelings.

since historical accuracy seems to be in question here, i would like to note that the swastika was adopted by hitler to inspire heroic patriotism because it was an ancient Germanic religious symbol from the heroic age. it also happens to be a religious symbol to cultures all over the world from the native Americans to the Japanese and even the Jews. there is even a jewish temple with a huge swastika on the floor. seems that maybe your ill feelings and prejudice towards the swastika might be a little ill informed.

also, there are bad people in every human's bloodline, if you look deep enough. if you only judge a man by the ill he has done, ignoring the good, then all of us should be eradicated as evil beings. people's actions are not so black and white. we are people. good people do bad things and bad people do good things. lots of horrific things were done in the name of the church and in the name of every country on the face of the earth. i notice no one is saying that we should refuse to display the images of those entities based on that truth. the church is considered a good thing, for instance, despite it's long history of oppression, torture, and murder.

perspective is important. in the grand scheme of things, how seriously terrible is it for a sailor to fly a jolly roger because, to him, it is a symbol of liberation from the control of those who try to tell you how to live? it's not like he's sawing the heads off of people with a small knife. oh, that's right. if he were, we'd defend the belief system that encouraged that sort of behavior (but a pirate flag is just horrible). my mistake.


----------



## therapy23

maine sail said:


> next time you fly one try to think about all those who have lost their lives at the hands of pirates. This jr is not just about 400 year old history. One of the best & most accomplished modern day sailors of our time, sir peter blake, lost his life to pirates in 2001 as have many other fellow cruisers. Somalian pirates are in strong force even today. Piracy still happens in the caribbean and people are still dying today at the hands of pirates. By flying one, you are _unintentionally_ through _under education_, saying that behavior is "cool"... It is not cool...
> 
> A joke? A novelty? Not to me.... Uneducated about history and its true meaning? You bet....
> 
> Rant off...


well said!!


----------



## jongleur

Just as insensitive as flying a Confederate flag.


----------



## Multihullgirl

jongleur said:


> Just as insensitive as flying the Confederate flag.


Which one?


----------



## VallelyJ

Wow. I posted early in this thread in response to the original question: is flying a pirate flag "lame"? I must have been in an irritable mood. I said, "yes" and half the deep-thinkers on the internet got up in arms about people "telling them what they could do on their own boats". That was months ago and I haven't paid attention to it since then.
Now it looks like an on-line graduate history seminar. I'm impressed.
I dunno about the sensitivity thing. I remember when I was 8 or so seeing black kids kicked out of parks (and feeling disgusted by it, as many did then). So maybe I'm less sensitive to symbols than others. Symbols mean different things to different people, but there's only one 'real thing'. You have to see them in that light. The last people that owned my last boat named it "Fancy Free" and raced in a club. Not exactly "The Dukes of Hazzard visit Mogadishu". But there was a pirate flag on the boat. I don't think you can read a lot into the flag today. IQ, maybe, sometimes.
I think it's usually a reference to movie/cartoon versions of the pirates of modern-day fantasy. The way cowboy hats have nothing to do with real cowboys. They're just dumb, cliche'd statements that say, "I'd be a real swashbuckling bad-ass--if my mom would let me". Don't take it too seriously.
But for the record, original poster: Yes, they're definately lame. 
JV


----------



## VallelyJ

There's a saying: 'Never wear a hat that has more personality than you do'. 
Applies to flags.
But if you really, really like pirate flags--after all, they're a nice, simple graphic and go well with white sails--then freaking fly one. It's not important either way.
JV


----------



## captain jack

jongleur said:


> Just as insensitive as flying a Confederate flag.


yes. that would be insensitive if based on popular misconception of historical facts.

the civil war was not over slavery. it was over state rights and free trade. lincoln only claimed it was over slavery to keep from risking impeachment for violating the constitution. it is interesting that he only stated that slavery was the reason for the bloodshed after the battle of gettysburg. of course, after that battle, a union victory was unavoidable. he didn't state slavery as the reason for the war until that point for fear that wealthy northern slave states would side against him.

he, himself said that he would have left slavery die a slow longering death, not have freed a single slave, if he could have kept the union from splitting in any other way. he also stated that he would never think it ok for blacks to be in relationships with whites or run for public office. during his time, he actually helped pass a law stating that southern escaped slaves would have to be returned to their owners if found running free up north...which was one reason that a prominent abolishionist supported the split of the country, before the war. if the north and south were no longer one country, that law would no longer be in effect. yet he is remembered as some sort of savior of the black people; as if he ended slavery out of some sort of altruistic moral ideal.

out of all the countries that ended slavery, only two needed a war to do so: America and Hati. you can see how that worked out in both cases. Hati shouldn't even need explaining. if it weren't for tons of U.S. support over the years, Hati would have never survived this long. not that Hati is a great place to be. and, in the U.S., the act of blaming the war, along with it's enduring devistation of the formerly wealthy southern states, on black people has created the huge racial divide that exists in this country. of course, that wound might have healed a long time ago if it hadn't been constantly reopened and expanded by government action and media manipulation.

anyhoooo. the point is, no version of the confederate flag is really an historically correct symbol of slavery. if anything, that flag is a symbol of states rights over an over reaching federal government.

however, you bring up a good point....one also broght up by mention of the swastika. namely this: when judging the meaning of a symbol, do you use it's original historical meaning or it's 'popular' meaning; the one that has developed through changing attitudes and ideas over the years since it originated?

so far, the most vocal opponents of flying a pirate flag...the ones who act like flying a pirate flag is on the same moral level as raping nuns...have all insisted that a pirate flag still must have the same cultural meaning that it had when it was first used, hundreds of years ago.

yet, other symbols, like the swastika and the confederate flag seem to be forced to be judged by the cultural ideas of them that have evolved over the years since their original use...cultural ideas that have been purposely shaped by individuals or groups to support an agenda.

i don't think that's exactly fair. if the swastika is stuck being judged as some horrible symbol of atrocity because of a twisted man using it for his own ends and if the confederate flag is to be judged by the meaning that has developed for it because of misrepresentation of historical fact (which was done to encourage division of the races. divide and conquer as the saying goes), then why is it that the jolly roger can not be allowed to be judged by the meaning it has evolved in popular thought, as well? why is it stuck with only it's original meaning when both of those other symbols have been so separated from their original meanings that few even know what they were?

i'm thinking that, if you think the swastika and confederate flags are terrible symbols of the worst in man, you should think the jolly roger is a symbol of liberation from the chains of social and political conformity; a symbol of freedom and living life by your own standards. i mean, heck, isn't that only fair? why the mixed standards?

symbols are a part of language. words, after all, are just symbols of ideas that allow us to communicate those ideas. symbols are a language all their own. language changes and evolves even when it is set in stone in a dictionary. cool originally meant lacking in heat. gay meant happy and had nothing to do with taboo sex acts. bad used to be an adjective or an adverb but (much to my chagrin) it appears, now, to also be a noun.

the symbols may stay the same but the ideas they convey change and evolve. in the minds of the large majority (at least here in the states)the jolly roger is no longer only a symbol of criminal acts. it has taken on deeper meanings than that.


----------



## Minnewaska

Jack, you need to work on being more pithy. 

You say we all insisted the jolly has some cultural meaning. I, for one, just think it's lame, immature, sophomoric. Since someone has brought up the confederate flag, I will add that it seems precisely the same to me. Nothing to do with slavery. I've also not registered anyone that suggested anyone couldn't fly one, if they like. This does not mean we can't all live peacefully together. The question was simply posed on whether people think its lame. They mostly do. You can cross your arms and hold your breath, hoping they stop thinking so, but it won't work.

As far as the swastika goes, it crosses cultural lines in the US. It represents one of the worlds greatest atrocities, which cost the lives of 400,000 of our brothers, and remains in use by bigots to this day. For that one, you can't hide behind it's other historic appearances. If anyone flew one from their spreader they would be a pariah. It is what it is. Still.


----------



## SVAuspicious

captain jack said:


> i don't know if you realize it but, pollitical correctness is all about conforming to the judgement of others.


I can't speak for others, but for my part you can fly any stupid or lame thing you want. The question was "is it lame?" The answer is yes. If you want to defend your right to fly it I don't think you'll get much argument. People do silly things all the time. Can't fix that.



captain jack said:


> in this case, you shouldn't fly a pirate flag because some overly controlling uptight individual might find it offensive.


No one has said that. Reductio ad absurdum. Foolish argument.



captain jack said:


> what consequences are there to flying a jolly roger...in this century, i mean?


1. You'll offend some people. You never know when you'll need the services of that person. Maine Sail is a good example. Got an electrical problem and need help? He may come down to look at your boat and turn out not to be available. He may tell colleagues what he thinks of your judgment - you are more likely to be a difficult customer. Who knows how many other service providers feel the same. Just the association with drunkenness and disruption would put many service providers, including marinas, on edge.

This isn't about political correctness - you can do what you want - you just have to accept the consequences of your behaviors.

2. You'll put people off. Cruisers will be less interested in letting their kids play with yours. You won't get invited to the beach potluck. No one will invite you to the dinghy raft-up. Get on the cruisers net to ask for ideas about a radio or refrigeration problem - you may run into silence.

Now if you don't care if you are associated with the Lake of the Ozarks style of boating you won't care. Just understand you'll pay for that.

Again, it isn't about political correctness - it is about the consequences of acting in ways that lead people to draw their own conclusions. Do what you want.



captain jack said:


> that someone uptight and controlling might have a bad opinion of you without ever being mature enough to see who you really are?


How about normal people, living their own lives, who reach their own conclusions about who you are based on what you advertise about yourself? Some silly immature symbol that means nothing like what you intend.



captain jack said:


> personally, i think the consequences of bending to the will of others and being untrue to yourself are far worse.


It's pretty clear at least to me that you have already decided you want to fly the silly thing. You are claiming to be true to yourself. No one is telling you not to be. We're telling you that it is lame. You can say you don't care, but it certainly appears from your intensity that you DO care, and are trying to sway the public perception to your way of thinking. Isn't that really political correctness? "He who screams loudest wins." It reminds me of a teenage kid saying "I have to wear my pants down around my knees to show my individuality; everyone else is doing it." Just stupid.



captain jack said:


> what quest, by the way? i am not sure we are on the same quest. my quest is to enjoy my life, be who i am, and do all i can to advance my own happiness before i die. not sure what your quest is but that's mine and, it does't cohabitat with pandering to everyone else's whims, all that well.


The victims of piracy. American citizens killed by pirates during a rescue attempt. 



 .



captain jack said:


> since historical accuracy seems to be in question here, i would like to note that the swastika was adopted by hitler to inspire heroic patriotism because it was an ancient Germanic religious symbol from the heroic age.


The swastika goes back much further than that. To my knowledge it has it's roots in Buddhist tradition. That doesn't change the very terrible impact the symbol has developed as a result of Naziism. My sister is a Buddhist (a real one, she is Lama Jamdrom in Kagyu) and we have talked about the issues of symbolism, including this one, with Rinpoche Tai Situpa and Rinpoche Lama Norla also of Kagyu (more or less the Buddhist version of Catholic Jesuits). Symbols do evolve, and most Buddhists avoid the classical uses of the swastika because it has been perverted.

The Jolly Roger in its many iterations has always been associated with piracy--real piracy--and that has not changed. Ill informed people have often misused symbols and disclaimed responsibility. "I'm just kidding" doesn't change bullying into anything else, for example.

Again it seems that you have made your decision and lots of people sharing information will not change your mind. You have every right (at least in the United States) to fly the silly flag. You'll have to accept the implications of that however. You'll probably sail into a country someday that takes such things more seriously and/or doesn't have the free speech protections you are used to. In the best of conditions you'll be told to remove it; you may be fined.



captain jack said:


> perspective is important. in the grand scheme of things, how seriously terrible is it for a sailor to fly a jolly roger because, to him, it is a symbol of liberation from the control of those who try to tell you how to live? it's not like he's sawing the heads off of people with a small knife. oh, that's right. if he were, we'd defend the belief system that encouraged that sort of behavior (but a pirate flag is just horrible). my mistake.


I don't think it's terrible. Lots of people in this thread think it is lame. I do too. I think you'll find that lots of people in anchorages and marinas and incidentally sailing nearby will think it is lame. Some of us will go so far as to think it is stupid. If you truly don't care why are you so intense? You have the right to do stupid things.

Do whatever you want, even if it is lame.


----------



## vega1860

> ok. i'll bite. what consequences are there to flying a jolly roger...in this century, i mean?


People will think you are lame, at best.

No one will see you the way you want them to. No one will think you are dashing, swashbuckling or dangerously heroic. No one will think you are actually Johnny Depp or Errol Flynn.

More likely they will just think you are an immature jerk or assume that you have young children aboard.

No matter how long this thread gets, it is still lame. Seriously lame.


----------



## Scotty C-M

So what. It's not a powerful symbol. It's just kid stuff. Not remotely in the same category as the confederate flag or the swastika. Believe it, no Somali pirate is flying that flag. As far as being invited to beach parties ... Ya think? One good idea, that I do agree with, is that going outside of the US it could be inappropriate. Different mores and customs should be respected.


----------



## jongleur

Lame:

Adjective - (of an explanation or excuse) unconvincingly feeble.

Interesting that the definition of lame is not for the act (e.g. flying 
the flag) but for the explanation or excuse.

Seems to fit.


----------



## FSMike

Which thing is truly lame -
Flying a pirate flag?
or
Worrying about others opinions?


----------



## captain jack

SVAuspicious said:


> I can't speak for others, but for my part you can fly any stupid or lame thing you want. The question was "is it lame?" The answer is yes. If you want to defend your right to fly it I don't think you'll get much argument. People do silly things all the time. Can't fix that.
> 
> No one has said that. Reductio ad absurdum. Foolish argument.
> 
> 1. You'll offend some people. You never know when you'll need the services of that person. Maine Sail is a good example. Got an electrical problem and need help? He may come down to look at your boat and turn out not to be available. He may tell colleagues what he thinks of your judgment - you are more likely to be a difficult customer. Who knows how many other service providers feel the same. Just the association with drunkenness and disruption would put many service providers, including marinas, on edge.
> 
> This isn't about political correctness - you can do what you want - you just have to accept the consequences of your behaviors.
> 
> 2. You'll put people off. Cruisers will be less interested in letting their kids play with yours. You won't get invited to the beach potluck. No one will invite you to the dinghy raft-up. Get on the cruisers net to ask for ideas about a radio or refrigeration problem - you may run into silence.
> 
> Now if you don't care if you are associated with the Lake of the Ozarks style of boating you won't care. Just understand you'll pay for that.
> 
> Again, it isn't about political correctness - it is about the consequences of acting in ways that lead people to draw their own conclusions. Do what you want.
> 
> How about normal people, living their own lives, who reach their own conclusions about who you are based on what you advertise about yourself? Some silly immature symbol that means nothing like what you intend.
> 
> It's pretty clear at least to me that you have already decided you want to fly the silly thing. You are claiming to be true to yourself. No one is telling you not to be. We're telling you that it is lame. You can say you don't care, but it certainly appears from your intensity that you DO care, and are trying to sway the public perception to your way of thinking. Isn't that really political correctness? "He who screams loudest wins." It reminds me of a teenage kid saying "I have to wear my pants down around my knees to show my individuality; everyone else is doing it." Just stupid.
> 
> The victims of piracy. American citizens killed by pirates during a rescue attempt. SY Quest incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .
> 
> The swastika goes back much further than that. To my knowledge it has it's roots in Buddhist tradition.


to be precise, it has been a part of traditions all over the world; traditions that are unconnected and have no common association. you might say it's a cultural parallel evolution. in the Germanic cultures it appears in the oldest stone age carvings. buddhism had no connection with prechristian Germanic religion until the viking age. during the viking age, a jade(i believe) buddha statue made it's way north as plunder. by that time, the swastika had been a Germanic religious symbol for a long long time.

and i really doubt that the Native Americans adopted it from the Buddhists. i doubt the Jews did, either.



> That doesn't change the very terrible impact the symbol has developed as a result of Naziism. My sister is a Buddhist (a real one, she is Lama Jamdrom in Kagyu) and we have talked about the issues of symbolism, including this one, with Rinpoche Tai Situpa and Rinpoche Lama Norla also of Kagyu (more or less the Buddhist version of Catholic Jesuits). Symbols do evolve, and most Buddhists avoid the classical uses of the swastika because it has been perverted.


to each his own choice. however, by those standards, christians everywhere should eschew the use of the cross as a religious symbol due to the very many atrocities that were committed under the sign of the cross in Jesus' name.



> The Jolly Roger in its many iterations has always been associated with piracy--real piracy--and that has not changed. Ill informed people have often misused symbols and disclaimed responsibility. "I'm just kidding" doesn't change bullying into anything else, for example.
> 
> Again it seems that you have made your decision and lots of people sharing information will not change your mind. You have every right (at least in the United States) to fly the silly flag. You'll have to accept the implications of that however. You'll probably sail into a country someday that takes such things more seriously and/or doesn't have the free speech protections you are used to. In the best of conditions you'll be told to remove it; you may be fined.


as far as that goes, if a person goes to countries that do not have free speech, they often have to censor much that is far less controvercial that flying a jolly roger seems to be.



> I don't think it's terrible. Lots of people in this thread think it is lame. I do too. I think you'll find that lots of people in anchorages and marinas and incidentally sailing nearby will think it is lame. Some of us will go so far as to think it is stupid. If you truly don't care why are you so intense? You have the right to do stupid things.
> 
> Do whatever you want, even if it is lame.


actually, i don't really care if anyone thinks it's lame. that's an opinion and you'll notice i never address anyone who simply says they think it's lame. that was, after all, the question of the thread.

however, there are folks that get very upset about the thought someone might choose to fly the jolly roger. either stating or insinuating that anyone flying one, for any reason, is committing some sort of moral atrocity. one recent post implies that simply flying the flag is tantamount to an act of actual piracy. it's those to whom i am responding with my 'heavier' posts.

am i, personally, going to fly the jolly roger? i probably won't fly any flag. it's just another unimportant detail to have to tend to. would i possibly display some artistic representation of the jolly roger somewhere on my boat? sure. i might do that. paint or stickers are something you apply and forget about. nothing to fuss with. of course, i might not, too. that's not why i occasionaly get involved in this thread.


----------



## captain jack

Minnewaska said:


> Jack, you need to work on being more pithy.
> 
> You say we all insisted the jolly has some cultural meaning. I, for one, just think it's lame, immature, sophomoric. Since someone has brought up the confederate flag, I will add that it seems precisely the same to me. Nothing to do with slavery. I've also not registered anyone that suggested anyone couldn't fly one, if they like. This does not mean we can't all live peacefully together. The question was simply posed on whether people think its lame. They mostly do. You can cross your arms and hold your breath, hoping they stop thinking so, but it won't work.
> 
> As far as the swastika goes, it crosses cultural lines in the US. It represents one of the worlds greatest atrocities, which cost the lives of 400,000 of our brothers, and remains in use by bigots to this day. For that one, you can't hide behind it's other historic appearances. If anyone flew one from their spreader they would be a pariah. It is what it is. Still.


that was my point, sir. symbols take on meaning as they age and new meaning tends to trump original meaning for most people.

oh, and i never said "all".


----------



## captain jack

SVAuspicious said:


> 1. You'll offend some people. You never know when you'll need the services of that person. Maine Sail is a good example. Got an electrical problem and need help? He may come down to look at your boat and turn out not to be available. He may tell colleagues what he thinks of your judgment - you are more likely to be a difficult customer. Who knows how many other service providers feel the same. Just the association with drunkenness and disruption would put many service providers, including marinas, on edge.
> 
> This isn't about political correctness - you can do what you want - you just have to accept the consequences of your behaviors.
> 
> 2. You'll put people off. Cruisers will be less interested in letting their kids play with yours. You won't get invited to the beach potluck. No one will invite you to the dinghy raft-up. Get on the cruisers net to ask for ideas about a radio or refrigeration problem - you may run into silence.
> 
> Now if you don't care if you are associated with the Lake of the Ozarks style of boating you won't care. Just understand you'll pay for that.
> 
> Again, it isn't about political correctness - it is about the consequences of acting in ways that lead people to draw their own conclusions. Do what you want.
> 
> How about normal people, living their own lives, who reach their own conclusions about who you are based on what you advertise about yourself? Some silly immature symbol that means nothing like what you intend.


well, no matter what you do, you are going to offend someone. if you have long hair there will be people that prejudge you. if you shave your head, same thing. if you wear this type of clothing ofr that type of clothing, there are always idiots that will make foolish assumptions about you and hate you for it. piercings and tattoos? same thing. ride a motorcycle and you just have to be a gang member. any symbol you display may upset someone. wear a cross in some parts of the world, or display an American flag, and you might wind up dead.

"How about normal people, living their own lives, who reach their own conclusions about who you are based on what you advertise about yourself?"

i believe that's called prejudice. you know, like said normal people thinking you are most likely a criminal because you have black skin. prejudice is ignorance.

if someone is ignorant enough to judge me poorly because i fly a jolly roger (or have long hair and a beard or have earings or...), without ever making an attempt to see what kind of person i really am, there is every likelihood that i am not missing anything by missing out on their association.


----------



## JonEisberg

captain jack said:


> That doesn't change the very terrible impact the symbol has developed as a result of Naziism. My sister is a Buddhist (a real one, she is Lama Jamdrom in Kagyu) and we have talked about the issues of symbolism, including this one, with Rinpoche Tai Situpa and Rinpoche Lama Norla also of Kagyu (more or less the Buddhist version of Catholic Jesuits). Symbols do evolve, and most Buddhists avoid the classical uses of the swastika because it has been perverted.
> 
> 
> 
> to each his own choice. however, by those standards, christians everywhere should eschew the use of the cross as a religious symbol due to the very many atrocities that were committed under the sign of the cross in Jesus' name.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should eschew the use of such a laughably "lame" comparison, and return to discussing the installation of twin backstays and the use of a Hobie main, or configuring a cutter rig, or perhaps a self tacking jib, or converting your Cal to a junk rig, and so on, and on, and on...

)

Have you ever gotten around to actually sailing that thing yet?


----------



## SVAuspicious

captain jack said:


> i believe that's called prejudice. you know, like said normal people thinking you are most likely a criminal because you have black skin. prejudice is ignorance.


Once again, Reductio ad absurdum.

One of the very few things you have said that I do agree with is that "prejudice is ignorance." Only you are talking about prejudice here: "preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience." People don't choose the color of their skin. They _choose_ to fly flags or display icons. It is not prejudice to reach conclusions based on logic or experience about chosen behaviors.

For that matter, people choose to have themselves tattooed or pierced, or wear their hair in particular ways. In that respect I offer that context is important. So, for that matter is social convention. So are socially consistent priorities. If you want to build a chromed out chopper and decorate your body have at it. Lots of tattoos and piercings and applying for food stamps and welfare? I think a lot of people will worry about your priorities. It's all in context.

But I digress.

Flying a pirate flag is lame. At least.

I will draw my own conclusions about who you are based on your behavior on this thread. My boat's name is Auspicious. If you will share the name of your Cal 27 perhaps we can simply avoid one another.


----------



## captain jack

JonEisberg said:


> Perhaps you should eschew the use of such a laughably "lame" comparison, and return to discussing the installation of twin backstays and the use of a Hobie main, or configuring a cutter rig, or perhaps a self tacking jib, or converting your Cal to a junk rig, and so on, and on, and on...
> 
> )
> 
> Have you ever gotten around to actually sailing that thing yet?


no. not yet. i did a preliminary hull scrape while it was still in the water; getting off most of the barnacles that will need scraped before i do the bottom paint. but, i ran out of decent weather before i had saved up enough to do all that needs done when i haul it; which is now slated for spring.

in the meantime, i've been doing all of the electric and interior work. haven't sailed it yet but i've been living on it part time after i got it to a 'live-able' point. i quite enjoy it and that has shaped my work/plans some. but it's going along well. unfortunately, i ran out of warmer weather before i got to the coach roof addition/modification. it would be nice to have real standing headroom, right now. experiencing what it's like to deal with the pop top low headroom has certainly set my plans for that in stone.

going to insulate it this winter, too. one cabin at a time. i found a really good blog by a couple that did this to their boat and it's very doable and should make it a bit toastier on those really cold nights. right now, i tend to sleep on the port settee when it drops down to the 20s because it is easier to keep the main cabin comfortable than it is to keep both that and the v berth comfortable.

a guy i work with had some used electronics from previous boats laying around, taking up space, so i scored a few radios and some other stuff for free.

the haul out is going to be the big all at once expediture just because a lot of pricier things need done at that time. after that is done, it will all be a downhill run from there. so, as long as there are no disasters, early summer is my realistic sailing goal. on days when i'm overly optimistic, i think mid spring. but, you have to be realistic. everything takes longer and costs more than you think it will. murphy's law.

i am still considering a future conversion to a junk or lug rig but, no rig changes at this point. just enough rig work to get her sailing. that's my present goal: ready to sail and live aboard. anything else is for a future time.

the one thing that is giving me a problem is romoving the interior paint. where it isn't flaking away, it's like iron. i'm afraid to get too aggressive with it because i don't want to hurt the FG underneath. it's been a source of way too much sweat equity, so far. i'd love to find an efficient way to remove it; which i need to do to finish my interior repairs/modifications.

thanks for asking.


----------



## captain jack

SVAuspicious said:


> Once again, Reductio ad absurdum.
> 
> One of the very few things you have said that I do agree with is that "prejudice is ignorance." Only you are talking about prejudice here: "*preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.*" People don't choose the color of their skin. They _choose_ to fly flags or display icons. It is not prejudice to reach conclusions based on logic or experience about chosen behaviors.
> 
> For that matter, people choose to have themselves tattooed or pierced, or wear their hair in particular ways. In that respect I offer that context is important. So, for that matter is social convention. So are socially consistent priorities. If you want to build a chromed out chopper and decorate your body have at it. Lots of tattoos and piercings and applying for food stamps and welfare?


which illustrates my point about prejudice and fits your description of it quite thoroughly. who in the world builds a chopper while on welfare? seriously? it takes initiative and drive to build a chopper from scratch. there are tons of bikers holding jobs all over the country (the large majority of bikers are working for a living. never met a welfare biker, yet, although i am certain they are out there); many of them professionals like doctors, lawyers, and CEOs. certainly, the large number of tattooed and pierced people you see working should indicate that these things are no clear indication of welfare status or anything else. thanks sir. well done.



> I think a lot of people will worry about your priorities. It's all in context.
> 
> But I digress.
> 
> Flying a pirate flag is lame. At least.
> 
> I will draw my own conclusions about who you are based on your behavior on this thread. My boat's name is Auspicious. If you will share the name of your Cal 27 perhaps we can simply avoid one another.


i already did.


----------



## SENCMac26x

Wow....I can't believe there so much controversy over something that is already commonly used excessively on bumper stickers, sports logo, restuarant signs, T-shirts, towels, toys and not to mention almost every business open during the summer in southern beach towns flies some version of this.

I have a Jolly Roger and sometimes I do fly when I'm in a playful mood, and I've never been alone on the water to do so.

Sounds like some of you need to fly an insignia with a stick up your butt.


----------



## Donna_F

I think everyone should agree to disagree and keep the fires banked. Pirate flags, anchors, boats, we're passionate about what we like and dislike.

tdw's buying eggnog for the room. Tell him I said so.


----------



## randyrhines

Maine Sail said:


> Not to be stereotypical but when I see the Jolly Roger flying, these mental images sometimes pop into my mind......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.fwweekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/*******.jpg
> 
> http://www.americasbestmyspacecomments.com/graphics/*******/5/pics_redneck-granny-shorts.jpg
> 
> http://www.tcnj.edu/~hofmann/humor/Misc/*******/redneckattitude/redneck21.jpg
> 
> http://www.lilligren.com/*******/images/redneck_bass_boat.jpg
> 
> http://projectredneck.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/i-love-my-*******.jpg


And that is an illustrated admission of your ability to control what "pops into your head" and you took the time to upload it all..........


----------



## randyrhines

therapy23 said:


> Mansail,
> 
> I am going to have to report some of those images.


But isnt that his crew?


----------



## randyrhines

Good points are made for both points of view on the Jolly, but I would err on the side of grace, no matter the flag , the cut of the jib, or the colour of the keel stripes an rudder trim. Seamanship!, the way he handles his boat etc. and manners, soon reveal if a helmsman is still learning, or a seasoned sailor, i forever fall into the first category, so that i might always be improving.Never judge a book by its cover, is good starting point for those meeting up with fellow sailor flying the jolly, should trouble find us anywhere with no landfall insight, We are all in it together.......cheers my brothers!


----------



## SVAuspicious

DRFerron said:


> I think everyone should agree to disagree and keep the fires banked. Pirate flags, anchors, boats, we're passionate about what we like and dislike.


With all due respect Madame Moderator, your analogies are not appropriate. In flails over anchors, no one that I remember has suggested _not_ to have an anchor. I don't recall anyone suggesting that in choosing between one boat or another (from the perspective one who has the misfortune to currently own three) that anyone not have a boat at all.

The discussion here is whether a pirate flag is de facto lame or not. The consensus seems to be that it is, and a few people that are predisposed to fly a pirate flag are suggesting that calling it lame is somehow unfair and in some feat of logic I cannot follow drives the categorization as lame somehow conflicts with their First Amendment rights or somehow else qualifies as political correctness.

Jolly Roger = lame.

Next?


----------



## Donna_F

SVAuspicious said:


> With all due respect Madame Moderator, your analogies are not appropriate. In flails over anchors, no one that I remember has suggested _not_ to have an anchor. I don't recall anyone suggesting that in choosing between one boat or another (from the perspective one who has the misfortune to currently own three) that anyone not have a boat at all.
> 
> The discussion here is whether a pirate flag is de facto lame or not. The consensus seems to be that it is, and a few people that are predisposed to fly a pirate flag are suggesting that calling it lame is somehow unfair and in some feat of logic I cannot follow drives the categorization as lame somehow conflicts with their First Amendment rights or somehow else qualifies as political correctness.
> 
> Jolly Roger = lame.
> 
> Next?


I was referring to the passion behind the discussions and the futility of reaching a consensus.


----------



## rgscpat

For what it's worth, it seems a bit unfair to judge Sir Francis Drake by modern mores. Yes, some of his acts were horrific, but how were they seen in the light of his times? How did his countrymen judge him? How did he live his life afterward? No, he was not an angel, even in a violent era, but neither would I think of him as unabashedly evil. I'd say "it's complicated" while recognizing both the brutality and the patriotic/nationalistic impulses. And I'd certainly not make a point of feeling guilty about having someone so remote in time as an ancestor; we all no doubt have many black sheep in our distant past, along with heroes and saints, but many of us simply don't know it. And, my wife raises your Drake with her Sheriff of Nottingham. Fer sure, Men in Tights with names like "Robin" must have been shifty characters that needed to be locked up!

I would say that the Jolly Roger is nowadays rather tenuously connected with actual piracy, and at that primarily with very sloppily remembered historical piracy and not at all with present-day piracy. And, to the extent it's connected with piracy, it's with a romanticized, trivialized view that chooses rose-tinted lenses to view what might be called the idealized softer side of piracy -- the ideas of an escape to an un-regimented, free, adventurous, judgment-free, and relatively egalitarian subculture. We don't need no steenkeen badges!

Is it wrong that most people choose to try to find things to like in what were otherwise mostly despicable bandits? Is it good or bad that we can find things to laugh at in past evils? Are we celebrating or belittling evil when we cut it down to size in our memories? Does a comic-opera view of pirates support piracy or does it simply make fun of it? Is it at least sometimes good to be childish or child-like? Or, as adults, can we recognize that we've always been somewhat of two minds about pirates, even in the era of Robert Louis Stevenson, much closer to the actual events of traditional piracy?

Is there a connection between trivializing and down-sizing Pyrats Lyte and enjoying the way Mel Brooks made fun of Nazis and neo-Nazi sympathies in The Producers? 

Does the situation or context make a difference? Wearing a devil costume to a Halloween party presumably wouldn't make me a devil-worshiper. But wearing an SS uniform to a synagogue might rank high as repugnant, evil, hateful, and a Very Bad Idea. Flying a pirate flag to a Caribbean-themed raftup party is not the same as flying it day and night in the marina. And flying a pirate flag off the Somali coast or through the Straits of Malacca would be yet another thing entirely... not lame, but deserving of some other description.


----------



## jongleur

_futility of reaching a consensus_

You could say that about every issue posted in 
this forum.

But the preponderance on this issue is that the 
excuses or explanations for flying a JR are lame.

...also insensitive, rude and creepy.


----------



## Don L

this thread just shows that just because something is lame it doesn't stop people from doing it :laugher


----------



## therapy23

I was entering a river no-wake zone and since I was idling a little faster, I passed another small Jon boat that was displaying a "pirate flag"/"Jolly Roger". As I passed them about 20ft away I pulled out my machete and waving it I hollered "AAhhrrrrr".

The skipper on the boat went pale with a look of horror and fear on his face. I put the machete down, looked forward and motored on, maybe shaking my head a little.

His kids just looked bewildered. I felt bad for them.

I felt bad too for my lame attempt at humor.


----------



## captain jack

therapy23 said:


> I was entering a river no-wake zone and since I was idling a little faster, I passed another small Jon boat that was displaying a "pirate flag"/"Jolly Roger". As I passed them about 20ft away I pulled out my machete and waving it I hollered "AAhhrrrrr".
> 
> The skipper on the boat went pale with a look of horror and fear on his face. I put the machete down, looked forward and motored on, maybe shaking my head a little.
> 
> His kids just looked bewildered. I felt bad for them.
> 
> I felt bad too for my lame attempt at humor.


i wouldn't feel too bad about it. i think it's pretty funny, actually. had i been the one in the jon boat, i'd have laughed my butt off. i would imagine he just wasn't connecting your joke with his flag. maybe he got it later on like one of those jokes you don't get for a while after you hear the punchline.


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## CapnSantiago

For all those who thinks it lame I say...Off With their Heads! Off course unless you really are a pirate in which case I think you shouldn't be letting everyone know.


----------



## randyrhines

Oh


----------



## aeventyr60

AAAAAarrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggg.


----------



## PBzeer

The funny part about this thread is that anyone would worry about what someone else thinks about something so trivial.


----------



## SVAuspicious

I don't have M16s but I will repel pirates.


----------



## rgscpat

Just wondering: If a sailor travels often through pirate-flag infested waters, what are the best guns, drugs, and anchors to have on board, and would the speed of a multihull make it far superior to a monohull, would loud Jimmy Buffett music repel the pirates, is it possible to learn to navigate away from pirate-flag boats without taking the correct certification class, and, if in the US, was the pirate flag infestation the fault of the democrats or republicans or religious fundamentalists of some particular sect, and are Florida's proposed anchoring restrictions a secret conspiracy led by pirate-flag flying, mordida and baksheesh-grabbing local sheriffs? Someone here must know the CORRECT answers to these questions.


----------



## captain jack

SVAuspicious said:


> I don't have M16s but I will repel pirates.


wow. this thread just went right off the deep end.

i watched the video and i didn't notice any pirate flags. in fact, i didn't notice the pirates displaying any " hey we're pirates" symbols anywhere. i also didn't notice the pirates attacking in sailboats, rowboats, canoes, pontoon boats, paddle boats, jon boats or other common pleasure powerboats; basically any boats where you might actually see pirate flags. so, how does this actually relate to flying a centuries old pirate flag from your sailboat?

perhaps you missed the point of this thread. the question is " is flying a pirate flag lame?"

it's not " is piracy a cool and socially acceptable activity in which to engage?"

this is the kind of post i have been responding so strongly to; posts that claim people flying pirate flags( the ones used in centuries past) from their pleasure boats are somehow morally derelict, supportive of actual acts of piracy, or somehow committing acts of piracy. it's just way over the top.

flying a pirate flag is a matter of personal taste. you either think it's lame, think it's cool, or don't care either way (thus the original question of this thread). taking the whole issue to this point is 
way out in left field, somewhere.

the idea that anyone who has not been attacked by golden age of sail pirates flying the jolly roger....which is anyone under 150 years old...could somehow have a traumatic emotional experience by seeing some guy (in a modern 30' sloop, for instance) with a jolly roger flying from his rigging, is just untenable. next thing you'll be telling us that no one should ever display viking imagery or even traditional native American imagery. after all, lots of people suffered injury or death at the hands of these people. i mean....golly...if you were to wear native American inspired clothes or jewelry, someone might get nightmares from fear that you are going to scalp them.

might as well add every other national image or judeo-christian image to that list, while you're at it.

i was just thinking. you should probably add images of sharks, crocodiles, any big cats, bears, hippos, elephants, pigs, bulls, deer, bees, spiders, and snakes to that list. people have suffered horribly from attacks of these animals. while such attacks are rather infrequent, anyone who has suffered such an attack might be horrible offended or even emotionally traumatized by seeing images of these animals; especially if those images are displayed in a light hearted manner.

considering the fact that no living person has suffered an attack by pirates who actually fly the pirate flag or adhere to the articles of agreement, i'd say this kind of imagery is an even more pressing issue.

the clothing designers at izod were just so socially irresponsible.

disclaimer: the practice of scalping did not actually originate with the native American tribes. it was started by the French. this is not to imply that native Americans did not have their own horrible inhuman practices. since they are human, like all of the rest of us, they are just as guilty if inhumanity, like every other human culture to ever live. native America imagery was only listed as an example of imagery that might have some negative associations in pop culture. the same goes for viking imagery. this is not to imply any actual negativity towards anyone of native American or Germanic (especially Scandinavian) heritage.


----------



## captain jack

rgscpat said:


> Just wondering: If a sailor travels often through pirate-flag infested waters, what are the best guns, drugs, and anchors to have on board, and would the speed of a multihull make it far superior to a monohull, would loud Jimmy Buffett music repel the pirates, is it possible to learn to navigate away from pirate-flag boats without taking the correct certification class, and, if in the US, was the pirate flag infestation the fault of the democrats or republicans or religious fundamentalists of some particular sect, and are Florida's proposed anchoring restrictions a secret conspiracy led by pirate-flag flying, mordida and baksheesh-grabbing local sheriffs? Someone here must know the CORRECT answers to these questions.


:laugher:laugher:laugher


----------



## SVAuspicious

captain jack said:


> this is the kind of post i have been responding so strongly to; posts that claim people flying pirate flags( the ones used in centuries past) from their pleasure boats are somehow morally derelict, supportive of actual acts of piracy, or somehow committing acts of piracy. it's just way over the top.


Perhaps you'll like Rick Moore's video, linked to earlier, better:


----------



## captain jack

SVAuspicious said:


> Perhaps you'll like Rick Moore's video, linked to earlier, better:


yeah. i've seen that before very funny, actually. i like boating blooper videos. interesting thing is, for all of the thousands of boating bloopers i have watched, the vast majority aren't flying the jolly roger. on the other hand, there are a good number of videos of single handed sailors....people who know what they are about...where you notice the jolly roger flying in the rigging.


----------



## Bill-Rangatira

and a jolly rodgering to you all


----------



## Jim_W

Arrrrrrrrrhhhhhhh Merry Christmas


----------



## VallelyJ

What more compelling evidence could you possibly ask for? The guys with the J.R. flags end up sailing by themselves. 
Merry Christmas to you of whatever flag.
JV


----------



## captain jack

VallelyJ said:


> What more compelling evidence could you possibly ask for? The guys with the J.R. flags end up sailing by themselves.
> Merry Christmas to you of whatever flag.
> JV


lol. that could be taken two different ways, though. one could say that a mindset that is liberated from dependency on societal acceptance and ideals breeds independence, the spirit of adventure, and a willingness (or even a need) to set off on adventure alone.

personally, i love my time sailing alone. don't get me wrong, i have enjoyed my time sailing with a girlfriend and, taking my father sailing was awesome beyond explaining. however, only when sailing alone can you really feel free; free of both mind and spirit. anytime you are with other people, you are constrained; at least on some level.

happy hollidays to all AARRRGH!! lol


----------



## VallelyJ

Q: How do you distinguish among a duck, a bold, solitary adventurer and a guy who can’t get a date?

A: Look for feathers.


----------



## Flint

Har! Whale oil beef hooked


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> happy hollidays to all AARRRGH!! lol


happy hol arrrgh days


----------



## rgscpat

Deep question: Will flying a "Cold Beer" flag attract boats flying pirate flags?


----------



## Minnewaska

rgscpat said:


> Deep question: Will flying a "Cold Beer" flag attract boats flying pirate flags?


Like a moth to a flame.


----------



## titustiger27

rgscpat said:


> Deep question: Will flying a "Cold Beer" flag attract boats flying pirate flags?





Minnewaska said:


> Like a moth to a flame.


I thought the Beer Flag was attracted by cocktail flags


----------



## bfloyd4445

its generally understood that people fly it to inform others they are not members of any yatch club


----------



## captain jack

bfloyd4445 said:


> its generally understood that people fly it to inform others they are not members of any yatch club


interesting. had not heard that before.

also:

i thought the beer flag was attracted to the pretzel flag.


----------



## mikel1

O.K. who here would have bet this thread could last 4 years and counting . . .


----------



## titustiger27

bfloyd4445 said:


> its generally understood that people fly it to inform others they are not members of any yatch club


and proudly

----------------
"Please accept my resignation. I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member".
-- Groucho Marx


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> interesting. had not heard that before.
> 
> also:
> 
> i thought the beer flag was attracted to the pretzel flag.


if you want your flag pole to move, maybe you need to buy the bar fly a drink


----------



## SENCMac26x

I actually thought about this thread on Christmas.

After the morning celebration was over, my kids (and their friend) were playing pirates in the backyard and wanted to take their friend on our boat.

So we all dressed as pirates and sailed around the harbor wishing Merry Christmas to other boaters or people we came across.










No, I do not think it was lame flying a Pirate Flag in this case.


----------



## captain jack

SENCMac26x said:


> I actually thought about this thread on Christmas.
> 
> After the morning celebration was over, my kids (and their friend) were playing pirates in the backyard and wanted to take their friend on our boat.
> 
> So we all dressed as pirates and sailed around the harbor wishing Merry Christmas to other boaters or people we came across.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I do not think it was lame flying a Pirate Flag in this case.


how horrible! you let your children celebrate the murderous scum that stole and plundered and looked and killed (without the justification of support from a recognized government body).oh the humanity! 

sounds fun i bet they had a good time.


----------



## rose8878

Great comment about the cannon. I saw a quote the other day that is perfect for my boat:

Drinking rum before 10 o'clock doesn't mean you are an alcoholic,
It means you're a Pirate!


----------



## titustiger27

SENCMac26x said:


> I actually thought about this thread on Christmas.
> 
> After the morning celebration was over, my kids (and their friend) were playing pirates in the backyard and wanted to take their friend on our boat.
> 
> So we all dressed as pirates and sailed around the harbor wishing Merry Christmas to other boaters or people we came across.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I do not think it was lame flying a Pirate Flag in this case.


that is so lame

*but*

the kind of lame I want to be


----------



## snodawg

I think it's fun for the kids on board. As for adults, an open invitation to stop by for some rum!


----------



## Squidd

You think flying a Pirate flag ( or acting like a pirate) is lame...

Tell that to my 6 yr old grand son... He'll tell you who is Lame....



" Captin Grandpa" aka " Captin Cranky"


----------



## single2coil

Take out this thread,,,enough enough


----------



## titustiger27

single2coil said:


> Take out this thread,,,enough enough


haters are lame


----------



## titustiger27

Squidd said:


> You think flying a Pirate flag ( or acting like a pirate) is lame...
> 
> Tell that to my 6 yr old grand son... He'll tell you who is Lame....
> 
> 
> 
> " Captin Grandpa" aka " Captin Cranky"


You tell that six year old swashbuckler to make sure he keeps that buccaneer in line


----------



## MarkofSeaLife

Yes, its lame.

After 725 posts I have popped back to say.... Its Lame.


----------



## single2coil

no body is a hater here. Just trying to raise the bar a bit, from my shoe size.


----------



## Minnewaska

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Yes, its lame.
> 
> After 725 posts I have popped back to say.... Its Lame.


Good enough. I'm back too, then. Pirate flags are lame, lame, lame.


----------



## j d

I thought it lame when I sailed in to Moro Bay and saw several of them. Thin I learned it was to support their local high school. I can't say supporting your kids and high school is lame.


----------



## Bene505

Is this still an ongoing arrrrrrgument?

Regards,
Brad


----------



## VallelyJ

How about a compromise:
If grown-ups bought the flag for you, they're cool.
If they bought the boat for you, they're also cool.
Otherwise, they're lame.


----------



## Squidd

VallelyJ said:


> How about a compromise:
> If grown-ups bought the flag for you, they're cool.
> If they bought the boat for you, they're also cool.
> Otherwise, they're lame.


OK, but I refuse to grow up...

I bought my own boat...

My Kids bought me the flag...

Where do I fit in...?


----------



## titustiger27

I find it funny that there are two kinds of people, those that think pirate flags are lame

and those that realize there are not two kinds of people (paraphrasing Tom Robbins)

That said... it seems those who like to fly a flag or think there is nothing wrong with it... are not telling anyone how to live *THEIR* lives...

On the other hand... well...


----------



## VallelyJ

Yep. People have a perfect right to fly any kind of lame-assed flag they want to. 
JV


----------



## Scotty C-M

I really can't immagine why anyone cares. It's just a silly little flag. If you do think that it has some large significance, well, we'll just agree to disagree.


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> I find it funny that there are two kinds of people, those that think pirate flags are lame
> 
> and those that realize there are not two kinds of people (paraphrasing Tom Robbins)
> 
> That said... it seems those who like to fly a flag or think there is nothing wrong with it... are not telling anyone how to live *THEIR* lives...
> 
> On the other hand... well...


well, i am of two minds of that. on one hand, acceptance of letting people live as they will does fit the modern pirate flag flyer's general sense of rebelling against the social compulsion to force people to toe the social line.

on the other hand, that's not entirely fair. i'd say that thee exists three camps of thought, on flying the jolly roger from your boat, that have posted, here.

group 1: those who think it's lame but don't care what you personally do
group 2: those who think it's not lame
group 3: those who think it's lame and offensive and you are a bad person if you do it.

only group 3 seeks to enforce their opinions. so, it's not really fair to lump group 1 and group 3 together; not fair to group , i mean. even if a few from group 1 are a little over assertive about the rightness of their personal tastes, group 1 (as a group) really hasn't tried to impose it's will on everyone else.

of course, there are the people that aren't represented here because they never saw the thread or, having looked at it, never posted and, there is no telling on where their opinions lie. although, it can be assumed not in camp 3 or they'd have posted.

disclaimer: i know, some will take offense at my saying group 3 has tried to impose it's will. no. they haven't brought guns or the threat of violence. but, what they have brought is just as strong. they brought the threat of being considered bad, offensive, or even evil. that's a big threat, to a lot of folks. kind of like the threat of being called racist. such types of 'threats' make a lot of people alter their words or actions to avoid being grouped into socially unacceptable titles. social peer pressure is a huge tool for behavior control and it's always been used as such.

of course, if that tool works to control you, you are too lame to fly the jolly roger.


----------



## captain jack

Scotty C-M said:


> I really can't immagine why anyone cares. It's just a silly little flag. If you do think that it has some large significance, well, we'll just agree to disagree.


all flags are just silly little flags. pieces of colored cloth. but people kill and die for them. it's amazing how much meaning can be held in a piece of colored cloth. but, that's humanity for you.


----------



## Minnewaska

I don't care if you fly one.

I don't care how you live your life.

I don't care what message you are intending to send.

I don't care what ancient meaning it has.

The question was exactly.......



radioguy said:


> .....Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays?......


The answer after 700 posts (eliminating all the duplicates) is.... yes, by the vast majority, but not all.

I have to say, I like this thread more than the zombie thread. That's really lame.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> well, i am of two minds of that. on one hand, acceptance of letting people live as they will does fit the modern pirate flag flyer's general sense of rebelling against the social compulsion to force people to toe the social line.
> 
> on the other hand, that's not entirely fair. i'd say that thee exists three camps of thought on flying the jolly roger from your boat.
> 
> group 1: those who think it's lame but don't care what you personally do
> group 2: those who think it's not lame
> *group 3: those who think it's lame and offensive and you are a bad person if you do it.*
> 
> only group 3 seeks to enforce their opinions. so, it's not really fair to lump group 1 and group 3 together; not fair to group , i mean. even if a few from group 1 are a little over assertive about the rightness of their personal tastes, group 1 (as a group) really hasn't tried to impose it's will on everyone else.
> 
> disclaimer: i know, some will take offense at my saying group 3 has tried to impose it's will. no. they haven't brought guns or the threat of violence. but, what they have brought is just as strong. they brought the threat of being considered bad, offensive, or even evil. that's a big threat, to a lot of folks. kind of like the threat of being called racist. such types of 'threats' make a lot of people alter their words or actions to avoid being grouped into socially unacceptable titles. social peer pressure is a huge tool for behavior control and it's always been used as such.
> 
> of course, if that tool works to control you, you are too lame to fly the jolly roger.


If #3 is the case here... I would say we are past what I believe 'lame' to mean and offensive.... but ever that would have degrees. (and I fear this could leak into political discourse.) For example people who think that we need to spend public money on xmas decorations. Which is not at the same level of being a racist, unless you think the person is making a threat on your religion, and not how public moneys are spent.

Another... few think the Tampa Bay Buccaneers logo is racist, on the other had the Washington football team logo might elicit a different response, by many more

And if the pirate flag had some stronger implication of #3, then it they and this thread should be highly restricted, if not banned.

I don't think they are close at that, and more a whimsical play with an image about a life at sea.... Much the same way the movie : "Pirates of the Caribbean" is either a good or bad movie in your eyes, but it isn't lame merely because of the premise.


----------



## captflood

GREETINGS EARTHLINGS; Please check out on facebook "The New Brighton Black Pearl and the Hoylake Grace Darling" bringing lots of pleasure to young and old. This may change a few peoples views. AS ALWAYS "GO SAFE"


----------



## captain jack

Minnewaska said:


> I have to say, I like this thread more than the zombie thread. That's really lame.


there is actually a zombie thread?


----------



## SENCMac26x

We can agree to disagree.

This is a sailng forum, We should really be "discussing" something a little more relevant....

Why is everyone who uses a danforth anchor wrong and suffering from an uncontrolable attraction to sheep?

--evil grin while stirring the pot--


----------



## VallelyJ

> group 1: those who think it's lame but don't care what you personally do
> group 2: those who think it's not lame
> group 3: those who think it's lame and offensive and you are a bad person if you do it.


There's a fourth--the ones who can't contain their indignation that anyone dares answer the original poster's question in the affirmative. Maybe a fifth--the ones who don't care about flags but about whether adults argue about this silliness.
This stopped being about pirate flags a long time ago.
We're a polarized culture now--all hyper-vigilant for any sign that another person may be of the 'other side'. Web anonymity opens the door wide to expressions of that. This issue has tapped into the trend. It's a petty symptom of a bigger problem, I think.


> [We can agree to disagree./QUOTE]--That's just it. We can't.
> JV


----------



## VallelyJ

> OK, but I refuse to grow up...
> 
> I bought my own boat...
> 
> My Kids bought me the flag...
> 
> Where do I fit in...?


Maybe the 'Cruising and Sailing with Children' forum?


----------



## Minnewaska

captain jack said:


> there is actually a zombie thread?


More than one, actually. They're usually desiguised by title lines that ask if your boat is a good place to hide or defend yourself.

All tongue in cheek for sure. All lame.


----------



## captain jack

VallelyJ said:


> There's a fourth--the ones who can't contain their indignation that anyone dares answer the original poster's question in the affirmative.


i believe you misunderstand and misrepresent that fourth. that fourth responds to those of the 3rd group. i haven't seen anyone get indignant because someone simply said they thought it was lame.


----------



## captain jack

Minnewaska said:


> More than one, actually. They're usually desiguised by title lines that ask if your boat is a good place to hide or defend yourself.
> 
> All tongue in cheek for sure. All lame.


i'd have never thought to see a zombie post on a sailing website. i am amazed at the longevity of the public fascination with zombies. it's outlasted vampires, werewolves, aliens, and just about every other trend. i wonder what the reason for that fascination is.


----------



## VallelyJ

> i believe you misunderstand and misrepresent that fourth. that fourth responds to those of the 3rd group. i haven't seen anyone get indignant because someone simply said they thought it was lame.


Are you kidding, Jack? This thread is full of people with pirate flags and hurt feelings. Why else would anybody give a sh*t what total strangers think of JRs?
I don't agree with the PC cops either, but they're late arrivals.
Actually, I don't like to agree with anybody...keeps people from anchoring too close.
JV


----------



## VallelyJ

And where the hell is the guy who started this thing, anyway? 
Did you ever decide to get your flag?
Or did you decide that sailing types were too hard to get along with?


----------



## captain jack

VallelyJ said:


> Actually, I don't like to agree with anybody...keeps people from anchoring too close.
> JV


ok. this is my very favorite post. classically awesome.

reminds me of a song by the Kingston Trio


----------



## captain jack

VallelyJ said:


> And where the hell is the guy who started this thing, anyway?
> Did you ever decide to get your flag?
> Or did you decide that sailing types were too hard to get along with?


i believe he was shanghaied by ghostly pirates and is currently roaming the carribean


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> I don't care if you fly one.
> 
> I don't care how you live your life.
> 
> I don't care what message you are intending to send.
> 
> I don't care what ancient meaning it has.
> 
> The question was exactly.......
> 
> The answer after 700 posts (eliminating all the duplicates) is.... yes, by the vast majority, but not all.
> 
> I have to say, I like this thread more than the zombie thread. That's really lame.


Majority rules --- in a democracy

But to assume The Majority is right... well that is what causes a lot of people to raise the Jolly Rogers


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> Majority rules --- in a democracy
> 
> But to assume The Majority is right... well that is what causes a lot of people to raise the Jolly Rogers


what are you guys doing? vying for most awesome quote?

love it.

side note:

actually, there is a point about majority rules that many people on both sides of the political spectrum seem to misunderstand. in a democracy, the majority rules over political and public afairs. but, what so many people who love to use that saying seem to forget is that a democracy is about individual freedom. the majority is not supposed to rule over people's personal lives. majority rule is not supposed to infringe on the individual's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness or violate any of the rights guaranteed by the bill of rights. (obviously, speaking about America)


----------



## blowinstink

Yes


----------



## aeventyr60

.


----------



## Minnewaska

captain jack said:


> i'd have never thought to see a zombie post on a sailing website. i am amazed at the longevity of the public fascination with zombies. it's outlasted vampires, werewolves, aliens, and just about every other trend. i wonder what the reason for that fascination is.


My theory is it's politically correct violence. You can stab, hack and shoot someone in the head, but they're not really supposed to be people. Blast away without remorse or concern for being a bad person.

It never caught on with me.


----------



## GeorgeB

Why don't we do a poll and solve this once and for all?

We have two Jolly Rogers - One that I bought (Condent flag) because that year our club had a pirate theme and we were to fly the Jolly Roger on all cruise-outs. The second one was purchased by a nephew who thought the Condent flag was lame and only the Disneyland version was the proper one.

I, for the life of me can't figure out why this is lame? Perhaps we go to different parties?


----------



## VallelyJ

> Majority rules --- in a democracy


Much as I hate to sound argumentative, that's a common saying, but it's not really accurate. The majority doesn't rule--law does. So, as the captain points out, the majority can't vote to violate the law, or to deprive a minority of it's rights under the law.
And the law says you can fly any lame-assed flag that rings your chimes.
Just don't read internet posts that ask people what they think of it. Ignorance is bliss.
JV


----------



## VallelyJ

> I, for the life of me can't figure out why this is lame?


Why do we need a reason? We're so beyond that now.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> what are you guys doing? vying for most awesome quote?
> 
> love it.
> 
> side note:
> 
> actually, there is a point about majority rules that many people on both sides of the political spectrum seem to misunderstand. in a democracy, the majority rules over political and public affairs. but, what so many people who love to use that saying seem to forget is that a democracy is about individual freedom. the majority is not supposed to rule over people's personal lives. majority rule is not supposed to infringe on the individual's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness or violate any of the rights guaranteed by the bill of rights. (obviously, speaking about America)


Agree, but I was responding to a post that implied majority (as in might) makes right.

But a majority can impose over personal lives when they approve a law that infringes on personal liberty, which is often decided by the Supreme Court.

____
the only supreme court I want
making decisions over my love life
is run by Diana Ross


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> My theory is it's politically correct violence. You can stab, hack and shoot someone in the head, but they're not really supposed to be people. Blast away without remorse or concern for being a bad person.
> 
> It never caught on with me.


There is nothing wrong with that opinion, I can totally see it.

But that is not the definition of lame.
in my boat


----------



## Minnewaska

GeorgeB said:


> Why don't we do a poll and solve this once and for all?
> 
> We have two Jolly Rogers - One that I bought (Condent flag) because that year our club had a pirate theme and we were to fly the Jolly Roger on all cruise-outs. The second one was purchased by a nephew who thought the Condent flag was lame and only the Disneyland version was the proper one.
> 
> I, for the life of me can't figure out why this is lame? Perhaps we go to different parties?


Hoist them up on your spreader halyard and I would say you're doing that wrong too.


----------



## aeventyr60

Minnewaska said:


> Hoist them up on your spreader halyard and I would say you're doing that wrong too.


I prefer the Bosun's chair.:laugher


----------



## Minnesail

Minnewaska said:


> My theory is it's politically correct violence. You can stab, hack and shoot someone in the head, but they're not really supposed to be people. Blast away without remorse or concern for being a bad person.
> 
> It never caught on with me.


That's probably because you've never seen Milla Jovovich in a Resident Evil movie:


----------



## captain jack

Minnewaska said:


> My theory is it's politically correct violence. You can stab, hack and shoot someone in the head, but they're not really supposed to be people. Blast away without remorse or concern for being a bad person.
> 
> It never caught on with me.


wow.

i never considered that.

you are absolutely right. it is pollitically correct violence. thanks. i have wondered that for some time.

i feel almost like you revealed the answer to meaning of life and everything.:laugher seriously, though. that's a real eye opener. good thinking on your part.


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> Agree, but I was responding to a post that implied majority (as in might) makes right.
> 
> But a majority can impose over personal lives when they approve a law that infringes on personal liberty, which is often decided by the Supreme Court.
> 
> ____
> the only supreme court I want
> making decisions over my love life
> is run by Diana Ross


actually....while they (both parties) do indeed create laws that deny constitutional rights, that is actually illegal; a violation of the constitition. the constitution is the supreme law of the land; above any other federal or state law. all laws violating or contradicting the constitution are unconstitutional, illegal, and in conflict with the ideals on which America was founded.

the Supreme court has become as corrupt as the rest of government. it's job is to ensure that laws which get passed do not violate the constitution but, they are appointed (for life) by the president, who is not a bipartisan party and appoints judges that support his own agenda. it's an unfortuane flaw, like the absence of term limits. judges should be totally unaffiliated with any side; their only loyalty to the actual constitution.

the majority has no constitutional right to control the personal lives, or deny the constitutional rights, of individuals. that would be mob rule, not democracy. the purpose of democracy and the constitution is to protect individual rights.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> actually....while they (both parties) do indeed create laws that deny constitutional rights, that is actually illegal; a violation of the constitition. the constitution is the supreme law of the land; above any other federal or state law. all laws violating or contradicting the constitution are unconstitutional, illegal, and in conflict with the ideals on which America was founded.
> 
> the Supreme court has become as corrupt as the rest of government. it's job is to ensure that laws which get passed do not violate the constitution but, they are appointed (for life) by the president, who is not a bipartisan party and appoints judges that support his own agenda. it's an unfortuane flaw, like the absence of term limits. judges should be totally unaffiliated with any side; their only loyalty to the actual constitution.
> 
> the majority has no constitutional right to control the personal lives, or deny the constitutional rights, of individuals. that would be mob rule, not democracy. the purpose of democracy and the constitution is to protect individual rights.


I don't think you need to bring in the constitution.... though I am not sure if this is the same

Congress several years ago passed a law, then Supreme court defended "People United Against Pirate Flags."

Now I don't believe we have a constitutional right to display (or even burn) the Jolly Rogers... but then again, maybe it is a freedom of speech issue or or freedom against lame and for fun issue


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> I don't think you need to bring in the constitution.... though I am not sure if this is the same
> 
> Congress several years ago passed a law, then Supreme court defended "People United Against Pirate Flags."
> 
> Now I don't believe we have a constitutional right to display (or even burn) the Jolly Rogers... but then again, maybe it is a freedom of speech issue or or freedom against lame and for fun issue


lol. obviously, the constitution isn't involved in the issue of the thread. but, it is important on the side notes about majority rules. people like to toss the saying about without really understanding it's actual meaning (which is a thread oon individual liberty) and they often mistake government over reach for just law: since the people in government did it, it must be legal. just wanted to touch on that issue.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> lol. obviously, the constitution isn't involved in the issue of the thread. but, it is important on the side notes about majority rules. people like to toss the saying about without really understanding it's actual meaning (which is a thread oon individual liberty) and they often mistake government over reach for just law: since the people in government did it, it must be legal. just wanted to touch on that issue.


I am not sure if I am right about this, but I was trying to say every law that the Supreme court isn't always about the constitution....

But you brought up something that kind of is obvious, but I never think of it.. The supreme court is suppose to be the one branch of (US) government that isn't suppose to be partisan, I think most Americans believe this should be true, yet during confirmation hearings... and discussions if they are liberal or conservative judges seem to be discussed way more than if he or she is fair.

Edit: which should be the most important... I don't want judges to be of one political leaning or other, but I *really* want them to look at the laws and cases and judge fairly.


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> I am not sure if I am right about this, but I was trying to say every law that the Supreme court isn't always about the constitution....


actually, unlike the other courts in the country, the supreme court's actual job is to rule on constitutionality. it's their part in our three part government.

-the legislative branch passes laws
-the executive branch executes/enforces those laws
-the supreme court makes sure that laws the legislative branch passes and the actions of the executive branch do not violate the constitution.



> But you brought up something that kind of is obvious, but I never think of it.. The supreme court is suppose to be the one branch of (US) government that isn't suppose to be partisan, I think most Americans believe this should be true, yet during confirmation hearings... and discussions if they are liberal or conservative judges seem to be discussed way more than if he or she is fair.
> 
> Edit: which should be the most important... I don't want judges to be of one political leaning or other, but I *really* want them to look at the laws and cases and judge fairly.


great point; one that gets overlooked. a fair and unbiased supreme court, with it's root firmly in the constitution, is far better than an unfair one.

on the other hand, if you are on the religious right and want to subjugate the population to your religious beliefs or ethics, you want the supreme court skewed in your favor and, if you are progressive and wish to try to scuttle the second amendment, you want the supreme court skewed in your favor.

the trouble is, neither side sees that each time they twist the constitution to 
infringre on the rights of others, they weaken their own libertys.

if you arm the government against your adversary, you will eventually find the government gun pointed in your direction.


----------



## Minnewaska

I just remembered. I have a pack fof pirate playing cards aboard that I bought at the gift shop at Pirate's Bight on Norman Island, BVI many years ago. This was the original shop that was in a building next door.... two fires ago. On the back of the card, there is a caricature of a pirate, Jack Sparrow like, and the tag line.... "dead men tell no tales" on them. 

I had this shiver in my spine that I might be lame after all. Then I decided, nah, it's just flying the flag.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> [snip]
> the trouble is, neither side sees that each time they twist the constitution to
> infringre on the rights of others, they weaken their own libertys.
> 
> if you arm the government against your adversary, you will eventually find the government gun pointed in your direction.


To me this is the grave sadness of our country (government) right now.

In the name of getting what I want, everyone is willing to tarnish the freedom of others. Often in the name of 'majority.' In the last election, something like 33% of voters voted and little more than half of those voted one way. That is now presented as a mandate from the people... and it goes both ways... For the life of me I can never understand why if a president gets 54% of the votes (when about half of the country votes) that it is touted as a landslide (which in the Electoral College it may seem like that.

The bring it around, so it isn't whipping in the wind... like a.. well.. pirate flag. It is what I find so comical about some comments in a "Is flying a pirate flag lame?" would people have the same discussion about "Is owning a steel boat lame?"

It's a novelty flag that does not restrict the freedoms of others... yet some would like to restrict that freedom of us swashy bucklies


----------



## Minnewaska

Folks, I find this lame flag thread to be funny, like a semi-drunken style debate over nearly nothing.

Let's drop the constitutional debate from here. Please! It will either get the thread shut down or moved. Really, no need to finish that last thought. PM whomever you want to finish your idea with.


----------



## VallelyJ

> It's a novelty flag that does not restrict the freedoms of others... yet some would like to restrict that freedom of us swashy bucklies


Maybe a little overstated.
But do I question the constitutionality of speech like "swashy bucklies".


----------



## Minnewaska

VallelyJ said:


> Maybe a little overstated.
> But do I question the constitutionality of speech like "swashy bucklies".


Agreed. Practically a hate crime. I have friends that are swashy bucklies.


----------



## titustiger27

VallelyJ said:


> Maybe a little overstated.
> But do I question the constitutionality of speech like "swashy bucklies".


not if it is *your* buckle being swashed....


----------



## VallelyJ

> not if it is your buckle being swashed....


Don't get me wrong--I have no problem with some swashy bucklies as individuals...


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> not if it is *your* buckle being swashed....


which reminds me of this video i saw of this 'golf ball washer'. very imaginative and skillful but, at the same time, it made me want to say," don't stick that dirty ball in there....eeew"


----------



## Don L

Isn't a zombie sailing thread one that dies, but then comes back to life?


BTW - lame!


----------



## titustiger27

Don0190 said:


> Isn't a zombie sailing thread one that dies, but then comes back to life?
> 
> BTW - lame!


I thought a zombie thread was one that limped at you, in a never ending fashion... trying to get at your brain until you no longer see the fun in sailing... or a Pirate Flag.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> which reminds me of this video i saw of this 'golf ball washer'. very imaginative and skillful but, at the same time, it made me want to say," don't stick that dirty ball in there....eeew"


the key to swashing your buckler is to make sure your swashing fluid is changed often.

Edit: about every 3,000 miles


----------



## goarmyonem

Pirate flags are always Hella-Cool, forget the small one, Fly a Big one! I'm from Tampa, Fly a Tampa Bay Bucs flag! Getcha Some!

And while your at it, Go get some Plunder!!


----------



## weinie




----------



## thezzzone

79 pages on the lameness or not of flying a pilot flag.

Obviously this newbie is confident he has come to the right place to learn about sailing..:0


----------



## VallelyJ

Newbies can be so insensitive sometimes. None of this has anything to do with pirate flags.
It's about people's need for validation of their fundamental value as human beings. Can't you see that?
There's sailing stuff on the other forums.
Oh, and welcome.


----------



## thezzzone

lol... i see now..and i should watch my autocorrect//

Thx

In all seriousness, am learning a ton. GREAT SITE!


----------



## titustiger27

There seems to be the assumption that pirates were the most evil of all people

and that out of the blue... for apparently no reason...

And no doubt they were. By our standards they make waterboarding look gentile

But Chris Columbus..... actually most explorers... were not oppose to killing many of the natives they stumbled upon. Add to this they didn't treat their men much better.

Life at sea... even for a government entity was not a bed of roses.

I read a book on Captain James Cook... he was considered somewhat of a nice guy... Well a nice guy who beat his men for minor offenses, practiced near genocide over certain islanders.

Yes... pirates are romanticized way more than they deserve...but so are most all seamen from 300+ years ago.

Life at sea was not very good for most, few survived it for long and not much that went on on ships would be considered humane.


----------



## titustiger27

thezzzone said:


> 79 pages on the lameness or not of flying a pilot flag.
> 
> Obviously this newbie is confident he has come to the right place to learn about sailing..:0












??


----------



## Minnewaska

thezzzone said:


> 79 pages on the lameness or not of flying a pilot flag.
> 
> Obviously this newbie is confident he has come to the right place to learn about sailing..:0


It's lame that you still have your settings displaying only 10 posts per page. Mine is set to 100.

Welcome, btw.


----------



## Don L

titustiger27 said:


> There seems to be the assumption that pirates were the most evil of all people
> 
> and that out of the blue... for apparently no reason...
> 
> And no doubt they were. By our standards they make waterboarding look gentile
> 
> But Chris Columbus..... actually most explorers... were not oppose to killing many of the natives they stumbled upon. Add to this they didn't treat their men much better.
> 
> Life at sea... even for a government entity was not a bed of roses.
> 
> I read a book on Captain James Cook... he was considered somewhat of a nice guy... Well a nice guy who beat his men for minor offenses, practiced near genocide over certain islanders.
> 
> Yes... pirates are romanticized way more than they deserve...but so are most all seamen from 300+ years ago.
> 
> Life at sea was not very good for most, few survived it for long and not much that went on on ships would be considered humane.


So what?

Pirate flags are still Lame!


----------



## T37Chef

Why...why wont this thread just die? Can one put a thread on ignore?


----------



## jrd22

T37- I was thinking the same thing. 80 pages when all that was needed was a one word answer.... YES (flying a pirate flag is seriously lame).


----------



## titustiger27

Don0190 said:


> So what?
> 
> Pirate flags are still Lame!


hmmm, interesting.

Well I am thinking you are thinking it is lame... and even if one was to accept that, it wouldn't be as lame as Christopher Columbus.


----------



## titustiger27

T37Chef said:


> Why...why wont this thread just die? Can one put a thread on ignore?


not sure exactly what you are saying, but you can turn the notifications off so everything someone posts on this thread, you won't get an e-mail


----------



## VallelyJ

Some people may still be thinking about their answers.
Meantime, people who keep posting "Is it dead yet?" questions are apt to keep it going forever.
So anyway, what else do you guys want to talk about?
JV


----------



## Bill-Rangatira

maybe just retitle this thread to miscelaneous junk or off topic


----------



## titustiger27

VallelyJ said:


> Some people may still be thinking about their answers.
> Meantime, people who keep posting "Is it dead yet?" questions are apt to keep it going forever.
> So anyway, what else do you guys want to talk about?
> JV


Walter Cronkite, Jimmy Buffett, Ron MacLean, Stephen Colbert are older guys that sail

is there any famous people under the age of 30 that sail (and maybe fly a pirate flag)


----------



## VallelyJ

Was Tristan Jones under 30 when he started his sailing career? (alleged sailing career?) He had a three-legged dog named Nelson, I recall.

And hey, was Tristan Jones's dog lame, or what?
JV


----------



## titustiger27

under 30 in 2015


----------



## goarmyonem

Because Pirate Flags are Hella-Cool, and anyone who doesn't like them is Hella-Lame, Check out the Sweet New Pirate Flags on our Tampa Bay Buccaneers Helmets

Come down for The Gasparilla Pirate Fest then maybe you'd get it

Because chicks flash their Jiggly Puffs to get Pirate Beads, What could be better than that?

Wanna talk about something else, huh, well then hows about MY OHIO STATE BUCKEYES THAT JUST WON THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP 42-20

BOOO_YAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!

All of you mamby pamby Pirate Flag haters can kiss my Pirate Lov'in BUCKEYE BUTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Minnewaska

goarmyonem said:


> ....Check out the Sweet New Pirate Flags on our Tampa Bay Buccaneers Helmets.....


Might have been the helmets that bought them a 2-14 season? Pretty lame.


----------



## Minnewaska

T37Chef said:


> Why...why wont this thread just die? Can one put a thread on ignore?


Ironically, this is why. Gives more to talk about.

It's the Seinfeld thread of SN, essentially about nothing. At least it is now that we've managed to defuse the serious tangential arguments. It will probably only end with us all sitting in a jail cell too.

But we have scientifically established that the flags are lame.

If you must, click Thread Tools, click Unsubscribe.


----------



## goarmyonem

Sure they might be Big-Ass Losers, But at least their helmets look cool!

They won the Superbowl 9 years ago, How many teams have still NEVER Ever done that?

And who cares about those fools anyway, a team since 1976? Whoopie Ding Dong!

The Tampa fake Bucs seat about 30,000 people a game. How about THE REAL BUCKS, a team since 1916 that has THE Biggest Stadium in college football and set the attendance record Again this year 108,700! It's called THE HORSESHOE.

How about the Biggest (has the most members) and Baddest (does things no other band can do) Damn Band in the Land!

Go to youtube and watch their videos, they turn themselves into moving games of space invaders and pac man and what not, simply Amazing.

So me being born and raised my first 30 years in Columbus, and having attended OSU (You have never seen a Real bar scene until you see High Street, trust me I've lived All over the country, there are ropes 5 miles long on either side of the road to keep drunks from falling out in the street, and it looks like a Police Training Academy with a Blue Million Horses, wish I coulda been there last night.

So, ya wanna talk about something Huh? Well All-Righty then, Let's talk about My Beloved OHIO STATE BUCKEYES THAT JUST KICKED OREGON TO THE CURB AND WON THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP 42-20!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOOOOOO_YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## goarmyonem

Seinfeld thread, That's Funny!

Man I've never seen one go this long, Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Maybe we can set some kinda record.


----------



## Minnewaska

Four posts in a row is lame. 

The Bucs were 2-14.

The buceyes have nothing to do with pirates.


----------



## aeventyr60

Minnewaska said:


> Four posts in a row is lame.
> 
> Ya, but when was the last time you pulled a chick?:laugher


----------



## SVAuspicious

titustiger27 said:


> Walter Cronkite, Jimmy Buffett, Ron MacLean, Stephen Colbert are older guys that sail
> 
> is there any famous people under the age of 30 that sail (and maybe fly a pirate flag)


Matt Rutherford? No lame pirate flag as far as I know.


----------



## VallelyJ

Boy, they must have been really drunk.


----------



## Minnesail

Do know how much corn costs in Tampa Bay?

A buck an ear.


----------



## goarmyonem

You got that right they were drunk alright, falling down drunk literally. I was just worried about then getting hurt, they wore high heels through a gravel parking lot and uneven sidewalks and did face-plants on the concrete all the time.

I never took advantage of them, that's what they were there for, the place is a meat market and a tourist trap.

I saw these two Gorgeous chicks who did not even make it out the front door one time. One was trying to hold the other one up and they both collapsed right on the front step. So I threw one over each shoulder and dragged em off, course I nailed them both too, Hey barbackings a tough job but somebody has to do it!


----------



## thezzzone

goarmyonem said:


> Seinfeld thread, That's Funny!
> 
> Man I've never seen one go this long, Not that there's anything wrong with that!
> 
> Maybe we can set some kinda record.


The FIGHT CLUB thread is longer.


----------



## goarmyonem

A Buck an Ear! I LOVE it! I'm gonna spread that around. I don't think we even know that one here!


----------



## VallelyJ

Sure, any woman who gets drunk deserves to get raped by some a**hole.


----------



## Skipper Jer

After reading the last few pages of this Seinfeld thread I am wondering if there should be an entrance exam to Sailnet.


----------



## vega1860

captain jack said:


> ...a democracy is about individual freedom. the majority is not supposed to rule over people's personal lives. majority rule is not supposed to infringe on the individual's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness or violate any of the rights guaranteed by the bill of rights. (obviously, speaking about America)


Who says? Let's vote on it!

BTW, the US of A is a republic, not a democracy.

*And why is this thread still alive?!?*

I vote it dies right here.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> Four posts in a row is lame.
> 
> The Bucs were 2-14.
> 
> The buceyes have nothing to do with pirates.


Isn't buckeye a brand of eye patch


----------



## Skipper Jer

titustiger27 said:


> Isn't buckeye a brand of eye patch


I want one. Where do I buy it?


----------



## titustiger27

Captainmeme said:


> I want one. Where do I buy it?


I'm guessing Cabela's or (and the way this thread has gone of late I hesitate saying...) Dick's


----------



## goarmyonem

Not if the Fight Club dies out and we keep going


----------



## Minnewaska

vega1860 said:


> *And why is this thread still alive?!?*
> 
> I vote it dies right here.


Because it would be lame to kill it.


----------



## titustiger27

!


----------



## Minnewaska

titustiger27 said:


> !


I think we have a winner.


----------



## VallelyJ

Whatever happens with this thread, I'm just grateful that I didn't have to go the rest of my life not knowing that 'buccaneer' has 2 c's.


----------



## Minnesail




----------



## Multihullgirl

yet another lame pirate flag:


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> I think we have a winner.


Gonna start my etsy store right now


----------



## titustiger27

How can the lame thread get to the second page of this section

bong water


----------



## Minnewaska

A contest to design the lamest pirate flag. All records can be broken.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> A contest to design the lamest pirate flag. All records can be broken.


Why not be an optimist and design the coolest flag


----------



## Minnewaska

This thread has proven that all pirate flags are lame, therefore, the goal is the lamest.


----------



## aeventyr60

Minnewaska said:


> This thread has proven that all pirate flags are lame, therefore, the goal is the lamest.


I thought it was the flying of said flag that was lame? Maybe you better attend this:


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska...

I have enjoyed your posts.. and will in the future.

They often remind me of a pirate flag



/tongue in cheek


----------



## Sublime

Can't tell if totally awesome or...?


----------



## Bandit927

If the name of your boat is, BANDIT, then its ok.


----------



## titustiger27

Bandit927 said:


> If the name of your boat is, BANDIT, then its ok.


What if the name of his boat is "Smokey"?


----------



## Sunphish

What's really lame is that there have now been 836 posts regarding the original question.


----------



## Minnewaska

That's what I like to see. Pushback always drives another dozen posts on this lame topic.


----------



## titustiger27

Are you saying pushback is lame.

This thread makes me wonder what people won't worry about


----------



## bfloyd4445

Minnewaska said:


> This thread has proven that all pirate flags are lame, therefore, the goal is the lamest.


Lamest??...is that like a lamb without sexual orientation?


----------



## captain jack

Minnewaska said:


> This thread has proven that all pirate flags are lame, therefore, the goal is the lamest.


the thread has actually proven no such thing. it only proved that a larger number of the people who chose to respond thought it was lame. there is no telling what the rest of the world actually thinks and, even if all humans thought it was lame, it's still just an opinion and not a proveable fact.


----------



## rgscpat

Proof testing is more easily applied to rum than to pirate flags


----------



## Minnewaska

captain jack said:


> the thread has actually proven no such thing. it only proved that a larger number of the people who chose to respond thought it was lame. there is no telling what the rest of the world actually thinks and, even if all humans thought it was lame, it's still just an opinion and not a proveable fact.


Nah, duly elected by a statistical representation. The OP's question was "is it considered lame". The question was explicitly about opinion. Lame is the proven answer.

Surrender already. You're outnumbered, outflanked and barely afloat.


----------



## titustiger27

Pirate flags have to be lame... if your only exist in a narrow interpetation.

People who think big, think beyond, will always be right.


----------



## SecondWindNC




----------



## Minnewaska

SecondWindNC said:


>


Classic. :laugher

and lame.


----------



## Don L

so in the last 2 pages I've learned that the unwashed masses don't think flying a pirate flag is lame

now I'm off to take a shower


----------



## titustiger27

trying to improve a good thing


----------



## captain jack

Don0190 said:


> so in the last 2 pages I've learned that the unwashed masses don't think flying a pirate flag is lame
> 
> now I'm off to take a shower


rewritten for dramatic effect:

with dedicaton, doggedly enduring months of reading, unwashed and unfed, to discover if flying a pirate flag is lame, i have reached the conclusion of my extensive research. i sit, unkempt and stinking of stale sweat, yet, with a heart lightened by discovery. i have learned that the unwashed masses (unwashed due to heavy research into this important topic, perhaps?) do not find it lame to fly a pirate flag from your sailing vessel.

i sit here, in clothes stiff with months of acrued dirt, pondering the great depth of this subject and find myself glad that i no longer have to wonder. i feel indebted to all the posters who gave so much of themselves to answer this socially explosive question. now, as i relax in post research bliss, i realize my great desire for hot water. the ashes of my nearly spent cigar threatening to drop onto the table, i knock back a shot of rum to ease my weary mind.

my thirst for knowledge slaked, i am off to the shower to scrape the caked on grime of my months long ordeal from my body. it is an herculean effort, in my present state of malnutrition. i ran out of food a month ago and was not willing to abandon my quest to go in search of supplies. but, the call of hot water overpowers exhaustion. soon, perhaps, i may even be able to eat again.


----------



## Sunphish

Would it still be lame if the boat was owned by Johnny Depp?

...or would that actually be lamer?


----------



## captain jack

Sunphish said:


> Would it still be lame if the boat was owned by Johnny Depp?
> 
> ...or would that actually be lamer?


that depends...

you said ' a boat owned by johnny depp'. you didn't say he was the one responsible for the pirate flag flying. so, we have a few different possible situations:

A) johnny depp flying a pirate flag on his own boat
B) someone stealing (perhaps i should say 'commandeering') johnny depp's boat and flying a pirate flag while he sail's the boat
C) someone sneaking aboard johnny depps boat and hoisting a pirate flag, unbeknownst to johnny depp
D) johnny depp drinks and wenches himself into a stupor and, while he is passed out, a friend or other guest aboard his boat hoists the jolly roger and, finally....
E) johnny depp's boat is commandeered by actual centuries old pirates and he is pressed into service by said centuries old pirates who then raise the jolly roger while singing ' it's a pirate's life for me'.


----------



## VallelyJ

Johnny Depp--wasn't he a transvestite in that movie about pirates few years ago?


----------



## Squidd

No No No.. your thinking Johnny Depp the drummer that plays with Marilyn Manson from time to time..


----------



## titustiger27

Squidd said:


> No No No.. your thinking Johnny Depp the drummer that plays with Marilyn Manson from time to time..


Anne Bonny was the transvestite


----------



## therapy23

An odd thread taking a queer tangent.


----------



## captain jack

therapy23 said:


> An odd thread taking a queer tangent.


although not exactly PC to the modern sensibilities, good pun.


----------



## captain jack

VallelyJ said:


> Johnny Depp--wasn't he a transvestite in that movie about pirates few years ago?


eye shadow not withstanding, i really don't think he was supposed to be a transvestite. not entirely sure what inspired the eye shadow look. always wondered about that. great character, though.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> eye shadow not withstanding, i really don't think he was supposed to be a transvestite. not entirely sure what inspired the eye shadow look. always wondered about that. great character, though.


I am in the midst of a book on pirates ("Under the Black Flag") + I read an interview with him shortly after he started doing the series... There are many things he and the director tried to do.... that stayed true to history... if not truly historically correct --- like marooning pirates or eating in the dark because the food was so bad or speaking like they were slightly drunk all time (since they drank almost constantly)

Edit: The eyeshadow might have to do with Pirates tried to create this environment of fear.. in hopes those they were attacking would not try to fight back --- Blackbeard (I think most know) used to burn fuses in his hair and had menacing eyes... maybe Depp was trying to crate a bit of that look...like how he painted eyes on his eyelids


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> I am in the midst of a book on pirates ("Under the Black Flag") + I read an interview with him shortly after he started doing the series... There are many things he and the director tried to do.... that stayed true to history... if not truly historically correct --- like marooning pirates or eating in the dark because the food was so bad or speaking like they were slightly drunk all time (since they drank almost constantly)
> 
> Edit: The eyeshadow might have to do with Pirates tried to create this environment of fear.. in hopes those they were attacking would not try to fight back --- Blackbeard (I think most know) used to burn fuses in his hair and had menacing eyes... maybe Depp was trying to crate a bit of that look...like how he painted eyes on his eyelids


how is the book? always looking for good reading material.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> how is the book? always looking for good reading material.


Pretty good, with interesting facts... but it jumps around a bit too much for my tastes... maybe a 3.5 out of five

Instead of a straight history... there are topics.. like 
"Wooden Legs and Parrots"
"Women Pirates and Pirates' Women"

Mostly in a way to address the perception of Pirates in popular culture.

There is the perception that pirates are democratic...which they were to some extent.. mainly if you were white, if you were black, you were still a slave..

One of the things that are relevant to some comments in this thread. Most of the pirates were pretty vicious, but the book points out if you were on many of the other Merchant or Military shops, you might have been treated just as poorly. In the vein of many of the facts in Bill Bryson's "At Home" there were times that if you lived and you weren't wealthy, your life was short and fairly horrible.

Edit: one of the ironies of the title and of Jolly Rogers is often Pirate flags had a red background... or red in them --- blood and death being the main theme


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> Pretty good, with interesting facts... but it jumps around a bit too much for my tastes... maybe a 3.5 out of five
> 
> Instead of a straight history... there are topics.. like
> "Wooden Legs and Parrots"
> "Women Pirates and Pirates' Women"
> 
> Mostly in a way to address the perception of Pirates in popular culture.
> 
> There is the perception that pirates are democratic...which they were to some extent.. mainly if you were white, if you were black, you were still a slave..


that's nothing against pirates, though. that's the time period. remember that America has always been democratic (well, a representative republic, really) yet had legal slavery during the early years and extreme descrimination for considerably longer.



> One of the things that are relevant to some comments in this thread. Most of the pirates were pretty vicious, but the book points out if you were on many of the other Merchant or Military shops, you might have been treated just as poorly. In the vein of many of the facts in Bill Bryson's "At Home" there were times that if you lived and you weren't wealthy, your life was short and fairly horrible.


still...as you point out, that was the time period. considering the violence and brutality of accepted governments towards their citizens and non-citizens alike, pirates weren't all that much worse. that's the thing about history: you really can't judge the past by the standards of today.



> Edit: one of the ironies of the title and of Jolly Rogers is often Pirate flags had a red background... or red in them --- blood and death being the main theme


very true


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> that's nothing against pirates, though. that's the time period. remember that America has always been democratic (well, a representative republic, really) yet had legal slavery during the early years and extreme descrimination for considerably longer.


yes and no.... that is I have seen things where it was presented that people of color had opportunity on a pirate ship (often because they made up a percentage on pirate ships).... in reality their percentage was either as a slave doing the worse --- or as cargo.

Several times the plunder was the slaves from a slave ship.



captain jack said:


> still...as you point out, that was the time period. considering the violence and brutality of accepted governments towards their citizens and non-citizens alike, pirates weren't all that much worse. that's the thing about history: you really can't judge the past by the standards of today.


Often portrayed (in pop culture) as kind of robin hoods... like they had a reason to be who they were.. that they were avenging a wrong.

Mostly they were criminals and very viscous ones. And the end result of their plunder was to drink and whore. (I just read a bit how they very seldom buried their treasure, because the riches were spent on drink, gambling and women (I think there is a Pogues album like that)...

I understand they were a product of their time, but men owning men -- even if it was common, doesn't make it right (not in our standards for sure, but really... and torture is torture..

and it was ruthless


----------



## Squidd

titustiger27 said:


> ...Mostly they were criminals and very viscous ones. And the end result of their plunder was to drink and whore. (I just read a bit how they very seldom buried their treasure, because the riches were spent on drink, gambling and women (I think there is a Pogues album like that)...


Kind of sounds like the "motorcycle association" I used to ride with....


----------



## titustiger27

Squidd said:


> Kind of sounds like the "motorcycle association" I used to ride with....


did you have a flag


----------



## Squidd

More of a "Patch" ...but we did wear a lot of black and skulls...

No eye shadow, but a lot of ink...


----------



## Squidd

Probably heard this before, but 99% of motorcyclists are "not" vicious criminals...some are...

Yet you find a large portion of motorcyclists wearing black and skulls, ink (and flags)...

It would not be PC to condem "all" the MCs that wear black, skulls, ink and flags based on the actions of a few...

Yet here we are condeming (calling lame) the flying of a flag based on the actions of a few...

Maybe that's why I'm OK with the pirate flag...and not OK with small minded prejudice...


----------



## grnrngr

I'm betting you'd end up lame if you didn't actually " qualify" for that patch..


----------



## captain jack

grnrngr said:


> I'm betting you'd end up lame if you didn't actually " qualify" for that patch..


colors. wearing the patch is called wearing colors. and it's not lame to wear colors you didn't 'earn', it is dangerous....possibly even fatal. depending on the 'club'. 1%ers take that stuff serious enough to savagely beat, cripple, or even kill someone who is not a member but displays their colors or, sometimes, even something similar to the image on their colors. there is a rather famous incident involving the angels, back in the 60s.

also very dangerous, is wearing your club colors in someone else's territory.


----------



## titustiger27

how can this go a week with out a post, watch out, someone will start another thread


----------



## Don L

heck I thought this thread had gotten locked


----------



## Minnewaska

It's now lame to post to this thread.


----------



## titustiger27

For some.. yes
for me... boredom


----------



## rgscpat

Locked? Can they build a jail that can contain this thread?


----------



## titustiger27

rgscpat said:


> Locked? Can they build a jail that can contain this thread?


they can build it

but would they come?


----------



## MarkofSeaLife

874 posts and flying a pirate flag is still lame.


----------



## titustiger27

of course once we get to 875 or more. It is no longer lame


----------



## Minnewaska

Nothing is as lame as 1000 posts of lame.


----------



## titustiger27

sunset pictures are never Lame


----------



## Minnewaska

But there aren't 1000 posts suggesting sunsets are lame.


----------



## Minnewaska

A pirate ship at sunset, not lame. Note, no flag.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> A pirate ship at sunset, not lame. Note, no flag.


either you photoshoped it out, or that is for pirate radio


----------



## randyrhines

While there can be no doubt that these 2 facts are truth apparent.
1. Flying the pirate flag is necessary as the pirate flag has a tendency to draw more wind than regulat flags.
2. The ketch rig is the fastest most efficient sailplan. Especially while engaged in flying The Jolly Roger...... So to speak inalienable truths......


----------



## randyrhines

Ah the proof is in th puddin boys! 
The pirate flag ( hereafter called "the Jolly Roger" draws a lot more wind actually as it also draws a lot more comments.........
And attention.......
The contrasting beauty of black background against the blue sky is a statement of presence unashamed, and the skull n bones a symbol of graduation of the lifetime voyage complete, the inference of a sailor at helm of an eternal vessel thus implied is the full impression in all its splendour and completeness.
Fly the jolly! Fly the jolly! Fly the jolly roger


----------



## rgscpat

A Modest Proposal: 
Persuade Pirate Flag owners of the lameness of their banners so as to collect a barrel full of them; send said barrel of flags and one of Johnny Depp movies to Somalia as a charity.


----------



## weinie

Charles Vane is not impressed.


----------



## Minnewaska

weinie said:


> Charles Vane is not impressed.


Who's that pretty boy from Julliard? That certainly isn't Charles Vane.


----------



## titustiger27

Julliard existed in the 1720's

this thread is a history lesson

​


----------



## Minnesail

titustiger27 said:


> Julliard existed in the 1720's
> 
> this thread is a history lesson


I don't think so.... My sister-in-law went there and I remember her talking about their one hundredth anniversary.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnesail said:


> I don't think so.... My sister-in-law went there and I remember her talking about their one hundredth anniversary.


I was joking

It was established in 1905.. not in the pirate days... though I think their flag is a skull and cross bones


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> I was joking
> 
> It was established in 1905.. not in the pirate days... though I think their flag is a skull and cross bones


lol. some people are just overly serious... and that's why they can't understand people who fly the jolly roger from their sailboats.

*"why so serious, son?"* (...the joker)


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> lol. some people are just overly serious... and that's why they can't understand people who fly the jolly roger from their sailboats.


isn't that the point of this thread?

couldn't the title be: "how many A types are in sailing and how many are not A types"

only one of the fly a jolly rogers


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> isn't that the point of this thread?
> 
> couldn't the title be: "how many A types are in sailing and how many are not A types"
> 
> only one of the fly a jolly rogers


this thread does prove that point far more effectively than it proves that flying a pirate's flag is lame.

edit: originally, some sort of strange internet vortex made this post come through as saying "...proves that flying pirates is lame." i think that s much funnier than what i was trying to post but, in the spirit of seriousness, i felt i better correct it. however, i had to note the variance for those who have a sense of humor.


----------



## titustiger27

here is something I don't understand...

I am pretty sure those who don't think a pirate flag is lame.. also don't take themselves too seriously...

On the otherhand, if you think it is lame: do you take yourself too seriously and do you know it?


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> here is something I don't understand...
> 
> I am pretty sure those who don't think a pirate flag is lame.. also don't take themselves too seriously...
> 
> On the otherhand, if you think it is lame: do you take yourself too seriously and do you know it?


i can answer a part of that. those who take themselves, and life, too seriously never think they take things to seriously. they think everyone who is not so serious is simply irreverent, silly, irresponsible, and childish. they also usually find people who laugh at themselves, and at life, quite annoying. no one likes to have someone rain on their parade but, it's even less popular to shine sun on someone's funeral procession.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> i can answer a part of that. those who take themselves, and life, too seriously never think they take things to seriously. they think everyone who is not so serious is simply irreverent, silly, irresponsible, and childish. they also usually find people who laugh at themselves, and at life, quite annoying. no one likes to have someone rain on their parade but, it's even less popular to shine sun on someone's funeral procession.


I'm not sure if I agree.

Like I have defended the jolly rogers and flying it.. I would likely never fly one (nothing is more embarrassing than to do something stupid (and when I sail I do lots of them) with something that calls attention to one's self, like a pirate flag)

But I would assume the anti=flag side thinks I am taking the flying a bit too serious.


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> I'm not sure if I agree.
> 
> Like I have defended the jolly rogers and flying it.. I would likely never fly one (nothing is more embarrassing than to do something stupid (and when I sail I do lots of them) with something that calls attention to one's self, like a pirate flag)
> 
> But I would assume the anti=flag side thinks I am taking the flying a bit too serious.


yes. but, you don't choose not to fly one specifically because you think it lame but, because you don't want to draw attention in case you screw up. different reasoning.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> yes. but, you don't choose not to fly one specifically because you think it lame but, because you don't want to draw attention in case you screw up. different reasoning.


Right...

The funny thing is.. those who think flying a pirate flag* ISN'T* lame, are critical of those who don't fly a flag

Not the same the other way around


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> Right...
> 
> The funny thing is.. those who think flying a pirate flag* ISN'T* lame, are critical of those who don't fly a flag
> 
> Not the same the other way around


hmmmm i hadn't noticed that anyone who flew one, or thought it was not lame or improper to fly one, criticized anyone for not flying one.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> hmmmm i hadn't noticed that anyone who flew one, or thought it was not lame or improper to fly one, criticized anyone for not flying one.


Maybe we start a thread

"Is NOT flying a pirate flag Lame?" :laugher


----------



## Minnewaska

Wrong. I seriously think flying a pirate flag is lame and I know I'm serious. Seriously.


----------



## blutoyz

I am dizzy after those last few posts...


----------



## Minnesail

captain jack said:


> lol. some people are just overly serious... and that's why they can't understand people who fly the jolly roger from their sailboats.
> 
> *"why so serious, son?"* (...the joker)


This is the first time I've ever been accused of being too serious!

I'm not above wearing a wig and novelty squid hat while sailing. But I still don't fly the Jolly Roger


----------



## Don L

I think flying a pirate flag is lame. So now I understand that I'm stupid, but too stupid to know it. Does that make me smart or just too smart to be stupid? I'm just so confused, but because I know it does that mean I'm not confused?


----------



## Squidd

Novelty Squidd hats are lame...


----------



## VallelyJ

The pirate flag manifesto:
"I fly my pirate flag so the world knows I'm my own person--free-spirited, daring, above sheepish concern over the opinions of the less bold. So I can't help it if my feelings get really, really hurt when some strangers on the internet think my pirate flag is lame."


----------



## titustiger27

VallelyJ said:


> The pirate flag manifesto:
> "I fly my pirate flag so the world knows I'm my own person--free-spirited, daring, above sheepish concern over the opinions of the less bold. So I can't help it if my feelings get really, really hurt when some strangers on the internet think my pirate flag is lame."


Or some how confuses it for an I.Q. test...

where did that come from?


----------



## Minnesail

Squidd said:


> Novelty Squidd hats are lame...


Whattttttt?!?!

At anchor one evening my wife baked a whole bunch of mini-cupcakes. A friend and I put on silly hats and we dinghied around giving out fresh cupcakes to the whole bay.

And you think squid hats are lame? NO CUPCAKES FOR YOU!


----------



## rgscpat

Flying would be a good way for lame pirates to get around but what happens when they meet the flying pigs?


----------



## Squidd

Minnesail said:


> Whattttttt?!?!
> 
> At anchor one evening my wife baked a whole bunch of mini-cupcakes. A friend and I put on silly hats and we dinghied around giving out fresh cupcakes to the whole bay.
> 
> And you think squid hats are lame? NO CUPCAKES FOR YOU!


OK Squidd hats are now cool...


----------



## titustiger27

Minnesail said:


> Whattttttt?!?!
> 
> At anchor one evening my wife baked a whole bunch of mini-cupcakes. A friend and I put on silly hats and we dinghied around giving out fresh cupcakes to the whole bay.
> 
> And you think squid hats are lame? NO CUPCAKES FOR YOU!


Was this picture meant for the how to detour dinghy thieves? not that I am implying those two are thieves or dinghy


----------



## dsehl

At the right time and place a jolly roger fits! Watch this video on youtube... Captain Dan & the Scurvy Crew - Broadside

When you have a small sailboat and partying on a sandbar in the states, may fit. Coast of Africa, hmmn maybe not. Context!

I plan to get a Conch Republic flag when I sail to the Keys ..someday

Broadsides!!!

-Dan


----------



## Minnewaska

Yes, it's back.

I've since noticed there is a single pirate flag in our entire marina. It's on a stinkpotter. Nuf said.


----------



## titustiger27

*Clearly*

Pirate Flags Rock


----------



## Minnewaska

titustiger27 said:


> *Clearly*
> 
> Pirate Flags Rock


Almost a miracle they all got the same shift off at MacDonalds.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> Almost a miracle they all got the same shift off at MacDonalds.


be fair... pirate flag.... pedal boat

they work at

ARRRRRRby's


----------



## Minnewaska

I may have to amend my position. It could depend on who flies it and where.


----------



## GaryM

It goes well with my Conch Republic flag so yes....


----------



## titustiger27

I think a flag is okay as long as it isn't twerking in the wind

I mean if you were a dude looking for a dude twerking a pirate flag, it would be awk

butt it wouldn't be lame


----------



## Minnewaska

Now I'm convinced. It totally matters who and where. That last failed the test.


----------



## captain jack

Minnewaska said:


> Now I'm convinced. It totally matters who and where. That last failed the test.


failed isn't even the word for it....and right after such an awesome post; one which proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that pirate flags are totally cool and not even thinking about being lame. didn't actually see a pirate flag in that last one; just the....wait for it...the pooper pirates.

or....are they butt buccaneers?

hershey highwaymen?

prostate privateers?

maybe just sodomy seamen

seriously terrible. i should be ashamed but, i never seem to be. really just aarrrrful of me.:devil


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27,

looked at your "dock" link. i was going to say 'nice dinghy' but, for some reason, i don't think i will. not sure what changed my mind...:devil

really digging this devil icon. one question, though: it's a sailing site. why no pirate icon? just a bit disappointed by that.


----------



## captain jack

this is a cool pirate....if you want to see a pirate not wearing panties....well. no that didn't come out right. i'd like to have seen the previous post's pirate lady without hers but, that's not what i meant. ummm. how about, "if you want to see a pirate that doesn't wear panties....ummm. no. not what i meant either....heck with it: if you want to see a pirate that's not a hot chick in jolly roger underoos. and...lol...looking at said lady: X does mark the spot. aye. that be the real treasure me jollies!


----------



## titustiger27

I am not sure if I should be disappointed or in awe for my google image results for:

"Jolly Rogers"

"Pirate Booty"

-----------------

on another note, can a Pirate flag be ' lamé ' ?


----------



## Scotty C-M

Silly thread. Tonight at the harbor Wednesday Nite Races an Erickson was going out the channel. Full of people haveing a great time. Flying two large pirate flags. Go Pirates!!


----------



## titustiger27

I'm just trying to get to 1,000 posts, because after 1,000 posts you get to post in the plunder section


----------



## VallelyJ

Yep. It's lame.
Now can we please move on?


----------



## titustiger27

VallelyJ said:


> Yep. It's lame.
> Now can we please move in?


might want to read the thread

I mean if it was lame, why would there be a pirate emoji??
of course not


----------



## therapy23

titustiger27 said:


> I am not sure if I should be disappointed or in awe for my google image results for:
> 
> "Jolly Rogers"
> 
> "Pirate Booty"
> 
> -----------------
> 
> on another note, can a Pirate flag be ' lamé ' ?


Both!!


----------



## titustiger27

​And pirate Emojis are not lame either

Btw, if you are looking for a way to display your Jolly Rogers, here is a thread discussing it: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/207265-how-do-you-rig-your-courtesy-flag.html


----------



## RTB

I admit to flying a pirate flag now and then. I had it custom made by a forum lady friend that lives on her boat out in San Francisco. That was pretty early on when we had bought the boat. Now that we've been out cruising for a few years, I have to admit that I think it is definitely LAME. It's tucked away in some dark place, and probably will never fly again. Well....unless I get blitzed and feel it's a good idea at the time. I've done stupider things before. Also, I have often wondered where was the appropriate spot to fly a pirate flag? The answer - where ever you want to. Hello......PIRATE.










Ralph


----------



## titustiger27

Hello Pirate

I think that is the number one pick up line at the "Naked Turtle Bar"


----------



## Minnewaska

RTB said:


> ...It's tucked away in some dark place, and probably will never fly again. Well....unless I get blitzed.....


So, it's in the club of all things that only seem like a good idea when you're drunk. We agree. That's the acid test for lame.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> So, it's in the club of all things that only seem like a good idea when you're drunk. We agree. That's the acid test for lame.


LSD test...? Now we are out on a plank

You are right, anything that was put away, from when we still had fun in our heart is about being lame


----------



## FSMike

All you folks who think it's lame would be well advised to avoid Southport, N.C. on 10/31/15 when the annual Stede Bonnet Regatta (and party) will be underway.

I never would bother to fly a pirate flag (except of course during the Stede Bonnet Regatta), but now that it seems to aggravate so many people I may have to go buy one.

I have a weakness for being politically incorrect lol.


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> LSD test...? Now we are out on a plank
> 
> *You are right, anything that was put away, from when we still had fun in our heart is about being lame*


well. i think this bit of insightful sarcasm about sums the whole thing up in a nutshell:

once you become a grumpy old fart, and anything with a sense of lightheartedness and joy is a thing to view with stern disapproval, it is lame for someone to fly a pirate flag from his sailboat.

for all of us, of youthful spirit, who still find joy and wonder in the world and don't take ourselves and everything else far too seriously: arrrrgh ye mateys. trim the sails and fly the colors.:wink


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> well. i think this bit of insightful sarcasm about sums the whole thing up in a nutshell:
> 
> once you become a grumpy old fart, and anything with a sense of lightheartedness and joy is a thing to view with stern disapproval, it is lame for someone to fly a pirate flag from his sailboat.
> 
> for all of us, of youthful spirit, who still find joy and wonder in the world and don't take ourselves and everything else far too seriously: arrrrgh ye mateys. trim the sails and fly the colors.:wink


Yeah, like who ever said that must be a genius or something


----------



## Minnewaska

Aggravated, grumpy old fart and lacking joy are not at all synonymous with thinking that flying a pirate flag is lame. I am full of joy, joke around like a kid and the flag does not aggravate me at all. Fly one all you like. 

It's simply lame.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> Aggravated, grumpy old fart and lacking joy are not at all synonymous with thinking that flying a pirate flag is lame. I am full of joy, joke around like a kid and the flag does not aggravate me at all. Fly one all you like.
> 
> It's simply lame.


I would never suggest you are grumpy, lacking fun.

And I support your freedom of speech right to criticize pirate flags and those who know they *are not* lame. I will even accept that the guy with a jolly rogers on his boat, might be the most likely to bump boats (and hips) as s/he make the rounds in the harbor.

But

two boats, one with a pirate flag and one without

The one with the pirate flag has 12:1 chance of having a fun loving captain/crew and that is just just simple math!


----------



## Minnewaska

Fun loving 12:1
Drunk 20:1
Adolescent 50:1
Lame...... limitless.

This never gets old.


----------



## titustiger27

Statistics of those who think a pirate flag is lame

Bitter -- 27:1

Likely to yell: "Get out of my yard" -- 327:1

Believes the voice of reason is his --- 82:1

Open minded: zero

Fun to be around: infinity of not

Need for the last word (without data) --- 87.2 : 3

Statistics by Cooked With Gas


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> Statistics of those who think a pirate flag is lame
> 
> Bitter -- 27:1
> 
> Likely to yell: "Get out of my yard" -- 327:1
> 
> Believes the voice of reason is his --- 82:1
> 
> Open minded: zero
> 
> Fun to be around: infinity of not
> 
> Need for the last word (without data) --- 87.2 : 3
> 
> Statistics by Cooked With Gas


no such thing as empirical data on whether something is lame or not.

not being argumentative but, although i know you were being funny, i think this might be seen as combative and people will miss the point that i think you are trying to make. if you go back to his list, you need all the support that you have for saying that those strongly against flying a pirate flag are somewhat less than youthfl minded and fun loving.

if you look at his list, you notice that fun loving is added into a list with drunk and adolescent. adolescent being another way of saying young...or perhaps youthful without the temperance (sometimes another word for the quality of being a sick in the mud) of maturity...or, still further: young at heart.

and drunk is how anyone is described when drinking or having a good time by those opposed to such activities.

another way to write that list would be:

fun loving
young at heart
drinking and having a good time

not bad things in my book. but, then, i am young at heart, fun loving, and i sometimes drink and have a good time. nothing wrong with any of that. you just let the implied tone of his post make you read it as negative. it's all in your perception.


----------



## RobGallagher

Judging someone because they find it amusing to fly a flag on their sailboat is pretty darn shallow. Makes me want to go out and buy one of my own just to piss off the wankers.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess those that judge are on some type of pleasure craft...the biggest waste of money I can think of beyond burning $100 bills to boil water to make expensive cat ****e coffee...I love my boat, but lets face it, I could invest more and sit at home watching the numbers go up and down on CNBC. Sailing is supposed to be fun.

Really? The bar to lame is set at a jolly roger?

Why do envision all the finger pointers wearing Crocs and a blue blazer? There, I set a new bar


----------



## titustiger27

I stand by my list

Now get out of my yard


----------



## Minnewaska

captain jack said:


> ......if you go back to his list, you need all the support that you have for saying that those strongly against flying a pirate flag are somewhat less than youthfl minded and fun loving.
> 
> if you look at his list, you notice that fun loving is added into a list with drunk and adolescent........


These were put on my list (also intended with humor, although, some just don't get it) as specific reference to pictures posted by those who don't think pirate flags are lame.

You think too much.


----------



## Minnewaska

RobGallagher said:


> Judging someone because they find it amusing to fly a flag on their sailboat is pretty darn shallow.....


Who's judging the people who fly the flag? It's the display of the flag that is lame. That was the OP question, not whether people who fly the flag are lame.



> Why do envision all the finger pointers wearing Crocs and a blue blazer?


Are you judging the people, because of what they wear? Pretty lame.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> Who's judging the people who fly the flag? It's the display of the flag that is lame. That was the OP question, not whether people who fly the flag are lame.
> 
> Are you judging the people, because of what they wear? Pretty lame.


like a spinnaker twisting in the wind or (dare I say) a pirate flag flapping in the breeze... you are good at this debaing... But still passing the wind of pure opinion .:kiss


----------



## Minnewaska

titustiger27 said:


> ......But still passing the wind of pure opinion .:kiss


What is the answer on whether a pirate flag is lame or not, other than opinion?

It is my opinion (and that of most others) that it's lame.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> What is the answer on whether a pirate flag is lame or not, other than opinion?
> 
> It is my opinion (and that of most others) that it's lame.


not to mention, your opinion of flying a pirate flag is based on lame conjecture, while you are a gentleman, you are a gentleman with a lame opinion... (on this subject) 









Edit: How is it we don't have *one* sailing emoji, that is bong water


----------



## Scotty C-M

But, being lame is totally cool. Like the old conumdrum: You have a piece of paper on one side that says, "The statement on the other side is true". On the other side it says, "The statement on the other side is false".

For Father's Day today, my wife gave me a new (long sleeved) black shirt with, you guessed it, Jolly Rodger himself - with skull and crossed flint-lock pistols - on the back. Arrrrrrr!! It is so cool. I had my three boys, my God-daughter and four grandchildren all running around the house this morning. One, the three years old, also got a pirate hat and a plastic cutlass. We were both running around the house shouting ArrHarrrr at each other. So I think that the next time I take out the boat - a very nice boat, by the way - I'll wear a blue blazer (and Crocs), an eye patch, and put up the old J.R.. I'm not going to think about Somallis, or the issues of third world politics, nor will I think about Caribbean history, and not even about Johnny Depp. I won't even wonder if it's lame. I'm just gonna fly that silly flag and lean back and smile. Regardless of your position on this important issue, I hope if you see me, you'll give me a friendly wave.

(disclaimer: OK, I don't own a blue blazer., although I did own one once. And I won't wear an eye patch. People might think I was Jack O'Neiil. But I actually do own a pair of Crocs!!) Oh yes, Have a great Father's Day!!


----------



## titustiger27

Scotty C-M said:


> But, being lame is totally cool. Like the old conumdrum: You have a piece of paper on one side that says, "The statement on the other side is true". On the other side it says, "The statement on the other side is false".
> 
> For Father's Day today, my wife gave me a new (long sleeved) black shirt with, you guessed it, Jolly Rodger himself - with skull and crossed flint-lock pistols - on the back. Arrrrrrr!! It is so cool. I had my three boys, my God-daughter and four grandchildren all running around the house this morning. One, the three years old, also got a pirate hat and a plastic cutlass. We were both running around the house shouting ArrHarrrr at each other. So I think that the next time I take out the boat - a very nice boat, by the way - I'll wear a blue blazer (and Crocs), an eye patch, and put up the old J.R.. I'm not going to think about Somallis, or the issues of third world politics, nor will I think about Carribean history, and not even about Johnny Depp. I won't even wonder if it's lame. I'm just gonna fly that silly flag and lean back and smile. Regardless of your position on this important issue, I hope if you see me, you'll give me a friendly wave.
> 
> (disclaimer: OK, I don't own a blue blazer., although I did own one once. And I won't wear an eye patch. People might think I was Jack O'Neiil. But I actually do own a pair of Crocs!!) Oh yes, Have a great Father's Day!!


*case close,* though I bet it isn't


----------



## Minnewaska

This case will never close before 1000 posts. I guarantee it.

That would be lame. The challenge now is for someone to make a unique argument, not already made. Or, just agree the bloody things is lame. Whichever comes first.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> This case will never close before 1000 posts. I guarantee it.
> 
> That would be lame. The challenge now is for someone to make a unique argument, not already made. Or, just agree the bloody things is lame. Whichever comes first.


I made the unique challenge about seven posts before, but clearly you were out yelling at the neighborhood thugs for walking on your grass


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> This case will never close before 1000 posts. I guarantee it.
> 
> .


considering we are about 50 posts away, and my penchant for the trivial

you win that prediction


----------



## VallelyJ

From what I can distill (n.p.i.) from the comments, it appears that flying a pirate flag indicates that you don’t give a s___ what others think; you’ll follow your own voice. Cool.
So, if you’ve risen to defend the moral or intellectual virtues of such flag-flying, you’ve fallen for the trap and shown yourself to be a poser. If you have any sense of shame, you’ll strike your colors (I know, black and white aren’t colors), crank up the VCR and review some old ‘Rocky’ sequels until you grow some ba**s and you’re ready to ignore this thread completely.
If you’re among those who think flying a pirate flag is a lame-assed way to pose as a cross between James Dean and Bernard Moitessier, you’ve probably made your point, as I know I probably have. Lets just shut up and move on.
The fact is that this whole thread was probably devised as the subject of somebody’s graduate cognitive science thesis at an elitist liberal academic hotbed. We're all some rich college kid's guinnea pigs.


----------



## titustiger27

OP (original poster) last logged in 10-7-2010... I am sure he has long ago graduated onto DVD movies.

Not sure if I think it is an intellectual virtue to fly any flag that isn't legally required. I defend anyones right to have fun, when it hurts no one. And when you are having fun, that hurts no one... it isn't lame... and sadness descends on those who are blind to joy


----------



## Scotty C-M

Oh Vallely, oh Vallely, oh Valley. What are we going to do? Perhaps there are some who "don't give a …", but there are probably many who do, and just want to share a bit of whimsy and good cheer. And maybe there are a few venture capatalists who are actually flying their true colors!! (Apologies to any venture capitalists who are not economic pirates!!) But calling other "posers" is, as we like to say here on the wrong coast, such a bummer. Truly, Dude (or Dudette), such bad karma. Peace and love!! 


PS: Minnewaska, How's that for a new argument - venture capitalists. Pretty cool, huh?
PPS: I hope I get to be #1000!
PPS: Vallely, I'm just screwing around. Of course all those other guys are just posers!!
PPPS: I've been to the other thread about drinking scotch. Can you tell?


----------



## titustiger27

Scotty C-M said:


> O
> 
> *PPPS: I've been to the other thread about drinking scotch. Can you tell?*


good night and thanks for the laugh.. as in *out loud*


----------



## VallelyJ

> And maybe there are a few venture capatalists who are actually flying their true colors!! (Apologies to any venture capitalists who are not economic pirates!!) But calling other "posers" is, as we like to say here on the wrong coast, such a bummer.





> Not sure if I think it is an intellectual virtue to fly any flag that isn't legally required.


No posting under the influence, boys (or girls).


----------



## elgatosunrise

the beauty of being a boater - is that you exist on your own sovereign floating island - in other words - do what you like


----------



## captain jack

Minnewaska said:


> Who's judging the people who fly the flag? It's the display of the flag that is lame. That was the OP question, not whether people who fly the flag are lame.
> 
> Are you judging the people, because of what they wear? Pretty lame.


come on dude. you have got to admit that the large majority of those who judge it to be lame, especially the ones most strongly in that opinion (and i'm not even referring to the ones that said it was immoral), also made statements as to what kind of person chooses to fly one. and i haven't noticed that they were complimentary statements.

why do you think a few of us have been such staunch defenders of flying one? not because we really care whether this or that person thinks it is a style faux pas, certainly. it's because of the attacks on people's character who think it's not lame.

if there were to be an online blog where a group of people were to make such sweeping, negative stereotypes about a another group of people based on race...i can only imagine the outrage. but, that's just what has been done in this thread; just not about race.

and, while you may be joking, the large majority of posters weren't. the last number of posts have been in a joking tone; which is good. that hasn't been the tone during much of this thread, though.

and that might be why it seems, to you, that i think too much.:wink

is the subject of whether a person thinks it's cool or lame to fly a pirate flag from their sailboat worth much thought? of course not. it's worth a yea or a nay. it should have been a rather short and short lived thread full of one or two word posts. it only takes a 'lame' or 'not lame' to answer the op's query.

but, if you have a thread where a bunch of people attack the personality or people based on their choice of boat decoration...well, that's a different story.:smile


----------



## RobGallagher

Minnewaska said:


> RobGallagher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judging someone because they find it amusing to fly a flag on their sailboat is pretty darn shallow.....
> 
> 
> 
> Who's judging the people who fly the flag? It's the display of the flag that is lame. That was the OP question, not whether people who fly the flag are lame.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do envision all the finger pointers wearing Crocs and a blue blazer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you judging the people, because of what they wear? Pretty lame.
Click to expand...

If you are gonna quote me Minnewasca, don't forget to include the smileys... They imply humor


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> OP (original poster) last logged in 10-7-2010... I am sure he has long ago graduated onto DVD movies.
> 
> Not sure if I think it is an intellectual virtue to fly any flag that isn't legally required. I defend anyones right to have fun, when it hurts no one. And when you are having fun, that hurts no one... it isn't lame... and sadness descends on those who are blind to joy


lol i had no idea this thread had been around that long. i never checked the date. if nothing else, the op created something lasting.:grin


----------



## captain jack

elgatosunrise said:


> the beauty of being a boater - is that you exist on your own sovereign floating island - in other words - do what you like


i vote this as the best post in the thread. so true.

perhaps, that could be seen as the essential lure of pirates in our modern world and the essential lure of piracy in the age of sail.

a lot of people talk about the terrible things pirates did but, they don't seem to realize it was a time when people did terrible things to each other. life as a sailor in the royal navy was harsh and, often, unfair. life on a merchant vessel was often far worse. many pirates left a life aboard merchant vessels to become pirates. it was a chance at life on your own terms. to get a vote on your leaders. to get a vote on the rules, and punishments, to which you were subjected.

'under the black flag' is a must read on the subject. while he certainly doesn't glorify or pretty up the reality of pirates (not the Somali type), it is clear, from the history, that pirates weren't all that much worse that the 'good guys' and that piracy offered an option of a life with far better treatment to men who earned their keep on the sea.

for a pirate, it's life aboard your own little floating democratic island.


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> lol i had no idea this thread had been around that long. i never checked the date. if nothing else, the op created something lasting.:grin


The thread was started 08-04-2010, the poster left a couple months later... and when I say left, he stopped logging on, he might actually still be reading..

Off topic a bit, I think about maybe a thread I started, or a post I made still being discussed, long after I am gone..

perhaps having a life of it's own

or that some 18 year old placing a personal and 60 later someone falling in love with it, and perphaps they are gone


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> i vote this as the best post in the thread. so true.
> 
> perhaps, that could be seen as the essential lure of pirates in our modern world and the essential lure of piracy in the age of sail.
> 
> a lot of people talk about the terrible things pirates did but, they don't seem to realize it was a time when people did terrible things to each other. life as a sailor in the royal navy was harsh and, often, unfair. life on a merchant vessel was often far worse. many pirates left a life aboard merchant vessels to become pirates. it was a chance at life on your own terms. to get a vote on your leaders. to get a vote on the rules, and punishments, to which you were subjected.
> 
> 'under the black flag' is a must read on the subject. while he certainly doesn't glorify or pretty up the reality of pirates (not the Somali type), it is clear, from the history, that pirates weren't all that much worse that the 'good guys' and that piracy offered an option of a life with far better treatment to men who earned their keep on the sea.
> 
> for a pirate, it's life aboard your own little floating democratic island.


Not sure if I agree with this...

first off:



> the beauty of being a boater - is that you exist on your own sovereign floating island - in other words - do what you like


Yes, but within reason, please let the starboard tack pass... that is there are certain rules of he road I hope we all follow.

Agree with the product of the times and pirates... it was harsh times not just at sea, I would guess a big reason for America being settled is the fact that so many people enjoyed the freedom from Europe.

And while there was some democracy onboard a pirate ship, perhaps more than a merchant ship, that was not so true if you were black --- you were considered cargo on both.

but I agree 'Under the Black Flag' is a good read.. some of the same theme expressed in Bill Bryson's books... pointing out it was great to be a lord, not so to be a peasant


----------



## Minnewaska

captain jack said:


> ........but, if you have a thread where a bunch of people attack the personality or people based on their choice of boat decoration...well, that's a different story.:smile


I agree. I've been called a blazer and croc wearing, grumpy, non-fun loving dude that spends the day chasing kids off my lawn. Couldn't be further from the truth.

But, I still think a pirate flag is lame.


----------



## Minnewaska

RobGallagher said:


> If you are gonna quote me Minnewasca, don't forget to include the smileys... They imply humor


Fair enough.


----------



## Minnewaska

Just to be abundantly clear........

I don't care who you are, what you wear, what you do or whether you fly a pirate flag or not. Although, all that has been stated repeatedly, so I haven't risen to my own challenge for something unique.

The OPs question was:



> Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays?


To which my answer is, and to which most boaters would answer, yes.

It is certainly possible that the display of the flag is a demonstration of not caring what other people think. That's cool. It's still lame. Not caring, doesn't make it not so.

However, it seems most that support the lack of lameness do care what others think, or they wouldn't be defending themselves or, more often, taking the offense. By the way, the OP cared what others think, evidenced by asking the question.

I think I may wear my blue blazer to work today.


----------



## Minnesail

Suck it, haters! 

I took a group of friends out on Saturday. One had sewn a Jolly Roger for me, and I had the 13-year-old hoist it up. Good fun was had by all!


----------



## Minnewaska

Minnesail said:


> Suck it, haters!  .....


First, no body hates anyone. As best I can tell. It's just lame.

Second, you're apparently somewhat reserved with your pride, since the picture flying looks like a black rag. No way to know you actually hoisted the pirate thing.

Making boastful comments about flying a pirate flag and showing ambiguous photos of doing so....... lame squared.


----------



## RTB

The skull and bones are only on one side? That's lame! And...clean up that mess of a flag halyard. :devil

Heh-heh. The kid looks happy. Good on ya.

The whole pirate thing gets lame if you've spent any time in Destin Harbor, Clearwater Beach, Ft Meyers Beach, and St. Augustine, where they have those commercial "Pirate Cruise" boats. The canned dialog is pretty funny though, especially if the person delivering it has a British or Aussie accent. It gets pretty annoying after a few days though.

Destin Pirate Cruise on the Buccaneer Pirate Ship
The Pirate Ship Black Raven Adventures St. Augustine Florida
https://www.captainmemo.com/

Ralph


----------



## GeorgeB

Grown men wearing Crocs are lame!


----------



## Minnesail

It's a homemade flag and it was a gift, no way was I going to complain that it was only one-sided!

(That being said she has the pieces cut and intends to finish it, she just didn't have time before Saturday's sail.)


----------



## Minnewaska

Minnesail said:


> It's a homemade flag and it was a gift, no way was I going to complain that it was only one-sided!...


So you say.


----------



## Don L

So ....................... when the lame good old boys fly both their pirate flag and their Confederate flag, which goes on top?


----------



## titustiger27

RobGallagher said:


> If you are gonna quote me Minnewasca, don't forget to include the smileys... They imply humor





Minnewaska said:


> Fair enough.


The







should be acknowledged, as should the proper spelling of Minnewaska's given name here

:nerd


----------



## titustiger27

Don0190 said:


> So ....................... when the lame good old boys fly both their pirate flag and their Confederate flag, which goes on top?


wait, is that an innuendo ? next thing you know, my rogers will not be jolly...


----------



## titustiger27

I made this (*two sided*) pirate flag and it flies at my work.

_Should we draw straws for who gets to do post 1,000.. or should we water color straws_

Purple Sun Pirates


----------



## Minnewaska

The lamest does the 1,000th


----------



## RTB

Minnewaska said:


> The lamest does the 1,000th


Almost there. Anyone notice that pirates are not very good artists? :smile

Ralph


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> The lamest does the 1,000th


sure, make the rules so they favor you

:devil


----------



## Minnesail

Weird.

Since I posted the picture of the pirate flag this morning I've worked on two printing jobs with pirates. One is pirate-themed kids activity book, and the other is fundraising for the East Carolina University Pirates.


----------



## titustiger27

I hope you didn't suggest to either one, to their face.. at least, that they were lame (because they are not)


----------



## Don L

RTB said:


> Almost there. Anyone notice that pirates are not very good artists? :smile
> 
> Ralph


it's the loss of eyes and hands


----------



## titustiger27

Don0190 said:


> it's the loss of eyes and hands


I thought it was the scurvy


----------



## VallelyJ

> but, if you have a thread where a bunch of people attack the personality or people based on their choice of boat decoration...well, that's a different story.


You're right, of course, Captain Jack and your point is well-made. But it's a chicken-or-egg question. Look at some of the posts by the pro-JR people who personalize any negative statements re: flying the flag. "If you don't like my flag, you don't like me, you're telling me what to do, and here's what kind of person you must be..."
It stopped being about the Jolly Roger almost from the start, and became a flame war based on stereotypes applied without any factual basis and by both sides. Who started it first doesn't matter because it was inevitable, and people have axes that they like to grind.
Some people think pirate flags are lame. Some people like them. So what?
In the immortal words of the great spiritual leader, Mister Natural: "It don' mean ****".
John V.


----------



## VallelyJ

> In the immortal words of the great spiritual leader, Mister Natural: "It don' mean ****".


Wow--You mean you can't even say '****' on this board? What a bunch of ****. 
Not being able to say **** is lame.
Now I think I'll go take a **** and think about it.
What do you think this word is: ****?
Or this one: ****
Try this:****** ******!
Wow. This is fun. ****! ****!
Come on, join in.


----------



## titustiger27

VallelyJ said:


> Wow--You mean you can't even say '****' on this board? What a bunch of ****.
> Not being able to say **** is lame.
> Now I think I'll go take a **** and think about it.
> What do you think this word is: ****?
> Or this one: ****
> Try this:****** ******!
> Wow. This is fun. ****! ****!
> Come on, join in.


I don't speak 'snowflakes'


----------



## captain jack

VallelyJ said:


> You're right, of course, Captain Jack and your point is well-made. But it's a chicken-or-egg question. Look at some of the posts by the pro-JR people who personalize any negative statements re: flying the flag. "If you don't like my flag, you don't like me, you're telling me what to do, and here's what kind of person you must be..."
> It stopped being about the Jolly Roger almost from the start, and became a flame war based on stereotypes applied without any factual basis and by both sides. Who started it first doesn't matter because it was inevitable, and people have axes that they like to grind.
> 
> John V.


i can't say it completely doesn't matter who started it. people will be drawn to respond to an apparent attack. if the first stone is never cast...however, i will totally agree with the rest of your statement. it's the same whether you talk about pirate flags, keel forms, sail plans, multihulls and monohulls,or bugs bunny cartoons.


----------



## VallelyJ

> people will be drawn to respond to an apparent attack.


Some also perceive attacks where there are none.


----------



## captain jack

VallelyJ said:


> Wow--You mean you can't even say '****' on this board? What a bunch of ****.
> Not being able to say **** is lame.
> Now I think I'll go take a **** and think about it.
> What do you think this word is: ****?
> Or this one: ****
> Try this:****** ******!
> Wow. This is fun. ****! ****!
> Come on, join in.


:laugh


----------



## captain jack

VallelyJ said:


> Some also perceive attacks where there are none.


oh. i'm not so sure about that. if you said that you liked chocolate ice cream and then someone else came along and said everyone that liked 
chocolate ice cream was stupid, incompetent, childish, obnoxious, etc you might just take that as an attack.


----------



## Squidd

I I've always been more of a twist man myself...

Not that there's anything wrong with chocolate....


----------



## RTB

I just finished read Bumfuzzle Just Out Looking For Pirates. No ****! Can't believe no one hit #1000 yet. 

Carry on....


----------



## JonEisberg

captain jack said:


> oh. i'm not so sure about that. if you said that you liked chocolate ice cream and then someone else came along and said everyone that liked
> chocolate ice cream was stupid, incompetent, childish, obnoxious, etc you might just take that as an attack.


I'd wager a Real Pirate would consider such a finely-tuned 'sensitivity' to be lame...

Then again, 'Pirate Ships' are just as likely as anyone else to trigger an EPIRB these days, so who knows?

;-)


----------



## Scotty C-M

Flying


----------



## Scotty C-M

A



getting close...


----------



## Scotty C-M

Pirate




go pirates...


----------



## Scotty C-M

Flag


getting closer ...


----------



## Scotty C-M

Is



What's it gonna be? ...


----------



## Scotty C-M

Cool!!




Yes, we did it! #1000 says it all! It's cool and that's that!!
Anyone want to try for another 1000?
Let's go to the Whiskey thread and have a drink!!


----------



## jongleur

1001 still say the reasons for flying it are lame.


----------



## titustiger27

ugh










#ugh, #notLame


----------



## Minnewaska

I probably have another 1,000 in me, if you all want to give it a go. It's easy, because I have no frustration or any negative emotion invested. (Despite the accusations) I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. Are you? 

I'm simply saying it's lame and most think so. That was the question posed in this tread. You're welcome to think it's not. If you don't care what others think, why defend yourself? 

997 to go........


----------



## Don L

Minnewaska said:


> I'm simply saying it's lame and most think so. That was the question posed in this tread. You're welcome to think it's not. If you don't care what others think, why defend yourself?
> 
> 997 to go........


I think it is lame, but don't really care if people want to fly one. After all it is nice to be able to easily identify the lame people :wink


----------



## VallelyJ

> oh. i'm not so sure about that. if you said that you liked chocolate ice cream and then someone else came along and said everyone that liked
> chocolate ice cream was stupid, incompetent, childish, obnoxious, etc you might just take that as an attack.


Yes, that would be an attack.
But the original question, and the one most people are responding to, was whether "flying a pirate flag was lame". It wasn't: "are the people who fly pirate flags stupid, incompetent, etc." To answer the original question in the affirmative isn't saying anything at all about the people who choose to do it, or whether anyone cares whether you have one on your boat or not. It's an opinion, that someone asked for, about the choice of boat decor. Period.

Some people don't like hearing 'yes'--understandably, maybe. But for them to conclude that they're being personally & deliberately insulted, and then go on the offensive, is irrational.

That's the same as saying that the only permissible answer to the OP's question is 'No, flying them is cool'.

You might think that my not flying a pirate flag is lame. But if someone asks you and you say so, I have no basis to make assumptions about your motives or your personality or imagine you're trying to antagonize me.

What's ironic to me is when people claim that JR's signal a spirit of autonomy and independence, then turn around and get worked up over a stranger's opinion of their boat ornament. I'd feel better about those who don't care what I think about pirate flags. They're being consistent, anyway. Someone else might think it's lame to express such an opinion. I'll get over it. Call it my version of a pirate flag.


----------



## titustiger27

I don't see where anyone would think 'most' think flying a pirate flag is lame

Even if you went solely by posts to this thread that doesn't pan out. And like a lot of threads... those who feel one way or another don't aways post.

also, the top six posters make up half of the posts... and many of the posts not only don't say it is lame, they actually say those who are concerned are much to do about nothing


----------



## titustiger27

Don0190 said:


> I think it is lame, but don't really care if people want to fly one. After all it is nice to be able to easily identify the lame people :wink


several posts ago you a) make a 'can't judge a book by it's cover' post, about what people wear, don't make _them_ lame and b) (If my memory serves me) you have made several posts suggesting that a flag is lame, but that doesn't the bearer lame.

and no, I am not suggesting that contradictions are lame or the bearer of the contradictions as lame


----------



## Don L

Good to have lame note takers I guess, even if their notes are all wrong.


----------



## titustiger27

Snark attack.

Note keepers know how to cut to the quick


----------



## grnrngr

Wouldn't it be sort of appropriate tho, if the boat you sail is a floating school bus called a Buccaneer? Seriously, I wanna get one and paint it yellow. Or maybe all flowery like the Merry Prankster's bus. Or would a "Hippie boat" be lame?


----------



## RTB

Forget the flag. I just want the booty!










Ralph


----------



## grnrngr

I think I'm up for a little plundering.. 
Maybe even discharge some firearms!


----------



## RTB

Only 987 posts to go.

Ralph


----------



## titustiger27

I am not sure how that would work... like how do you have a decent (smooth) hull for sailing.

That said, I like the idea...


​


----------



## Aerofish

Wow. This is quite a lengthy thread. I fly a small three skull and bones side by side when sailing with my two brothers. So not really lame if it has somewhat of a meaning to it I guess.


----------



## titustiger27

RTB said:


> Only 987 posts to go.
> 
> Ralph


When I wake up tomorrow, will I

Find

you have
posted the

2,000th post?


----------



## grnrngr

> I am not sure how that would work... like how do you have a decent (smooth) hull for sailing.


well, sometimes you have to sacrifice to get what you want..but maybe 10 coats of clearcoat over the flowers? and some of those sails like in the "would you buy these sails?" poll. Especially if they could make them like repros of Grateful Dead or Jefferson Airplane posters. And a BIG white spinnaker with the Zig Zag man on it. or Bob Marley or Jimi..


----------



## titustiger27

Bob Marley is the way to go, Stir it up


----------



## grnrngr

Yah mon!


----------



## titustiger27

The one thing I wonder about, is the coast guard always stopping you and asking to search your boat


----------



## grnrngr

Not always.. sometimes they ask me if I'm on fire cuz of the smoke coming out of the hatch.


----------



## titustiger27

Ha








I think we have the script for a new Cheech and Chong movie

"Sailing on Smoke"


----------



## grnrngr

Oh wow, man, like, now I'm so totally embarrassed. Please accept my deepest, most profound, and sincere apology to the OP, I never intended to hijack the thread and start talking about hippies. That was some good ****.


----------



## titustiger27

You are not the first, and surely (or is it shirley) not the last to hijack it... it's not like you are making 12 posts just to get to 1,000.

good night


----------



## grnrngr

I know, and thanks for the emotional support, but I just couldn't go to sleep knowing I had violated the most basic rule of forum etiquette.

all hands, the smoking lamp is out.


----------



## captain jack

RTB said:


> Forget the flag. I just want the booty!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ralph


aye lads, she can shiver me timber any day.:devil


----------



## captain jack

VallelyJ said:


> Yes, that would be an attack.
> But the original question, and the one most people are responding to, was whether "flying a pirate flag was lame". It wasn't: "are the people who fly pirate flags stupid, incompetent, etc." To answer the original question in the affirmative isn't saying anything at all about the people who choose to do it, or whether anyone cares whether you have one on your boat or not. It's an opinion, that someone asked for, about the choice of boat decor. Period.
> 
> Some people don't like hearing 'yes'--understandably, maybe. But for them to conclude that they're being personally & deliberately insulted, and then go on the offensive, is irrational.
> 
> That's the same as saying that the only permissible answer to the OP's question is 'No, flying them is cool'.
> 
> You might think that my not flying a pirate flag is lame. But if someone asks you and you say so, I have no basis to make assumptions about your motives or your personality or imagine you're trying to antagonize me.
> 
> What's ironic to me is when people claim that JR's signal a spirit of autonomy and independence, then turn around and get worked up over a stranger's opinion of their boat ornament. I'd feel better about those who don't care what I think about pirate flags. They're being consistent, anyway. Someone else might think it's lame to express such an opinion. I'll get over it. Call it my version of a pirate flag.


the hullabaloo (did i spell that correctly? i'd be real upset to think i misspelled such a high grade word)(lol i forgot we now have automatic spell check. i don't have to wonder if i misspelled it. i did. thank you spell check. i fixed it and can now sleep in peace tonight)

where was i? oh yes. the hullabaloo didn't start over someone saying,"i think it's lame". the hullabaloo (word of the day!) was over posts that linked flying one to negative character traits.

i don't think anyone has even bothered to respond to a post that simply said "yes" or "lame".i know i haven't.


----------



## captain jack

Aerofish said:


> Wow. This is quite a lengthy thread.* I fly a small three skull and bones side by side when sailing with my two brothers.* So not really lame if it has somewhat of a meaning to it I guess.


that's pretty cool.


----------



## MedSailor

Can the pirate flag be flown upside-down as a distress signal?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


----------



## grnrngr




----------



## grnrngr

> Can the pirate flag be flown upside-down as a distress signal?


Like when yer getting chased by the coast guard?


----------



## captain jack

MedSailor said:


> Can the pirate flag be flown upside-down as a distress signal?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


in the old days, it was a distress signal. if i flew the jolly roger, it was a signal that you were getting ready to be in distress.:devil


----------



## titustiger27

I thought an upside down flag was *still* a distress signal

like a pair of jeans


----------



## titustiger27

irateraft:

clearly

Not lame


----------



## RTB

A Friday video just for you -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPrNO3qvCUM#t=27

Ralph


----------



## Minnewaska

RTB said:


> A Friday video just for you -
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPrNO3qvCUM#t=27
> 
> Ralph


I liked the pirate. Did you notice, even he didn't have a lame flag.


----------



## GeorgeB

Minne, watch again, the pirate was using his flag as a sail.


----------



## Minnewaska

GeorgeB said:


> Minne, watch again, the pirate was using his flag as a sail.


Who said sails were lame? It's flying it as a flag.


----------



## titustiger27

see those flags are resourceful, they have multi-uses... they are multifaceted, unlike.... some haters.


----------



## GeorgeB

So you're saying the flag is lame but it on an entire set of sails is cool? (I'm trying to get my head around this one). Even I thought that the Pirates of the Caribbean was a bit too mouse kingdom and kitschy.


----------



## titustiger27

:ship-captain:

talk about a slippery slope, what if you use your sail *as* a flag the fact that it is lame with one use and not in another, kind of pinpoints the pinheadedness of an anti-flag hypothesis

edit: not that anyone is a pinhead, soley for having the wrong opinion or anyone who participates in this forum


----------



## Minnewaska

You've convinced me, it's all lame.


----------



## RTB

I went to Port Aransas today (that's in Texas Y'all). I walked part way out the jetties. Quite a few ships coming in and going out. One even from Panama. Hmmm. Not a pirate flag flying on any of them.

Arriving on the ferry, I noticed the big sign for pirate cruises (apparently now big business here too). Should have got a pic for you. The "pirate ship" is lame, and their flags were lame too. On the positive side for the day....I ate at Castaways. Great seafood, and some really cute waitresses that had some nice booty worth plundering! Dang, wish I was 20 again.

Carry on matey....but from here on, you should speak/type like it's "Talk Like A Pirate Day". The "Official" countdown here - Welcome to the Official site for Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19

Ralph


----------



## titustiger27

Ugh

if you give up

do you ?


:chaser


----------



## Capt Len

So, no quarter, no prisoners taken is what I read.Just have to blow you out of the water as you cross my bow.How lame is that?


----------



## Minnesail

RTB said:


> Carry on matey....but from here on, you should speak/type like it's "Talk Like A Pirate Day". The "Official" countdown here - Welcome to the Official site for Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19
> 
> Ralph


Hmm.

I'm going to be leading an "armada" of six charter boats that weekend. I better not let the other skippers know about Talk Like a Pirate Day, they'd get us in trouble doing that on the VHF.


----------



## titustiger27

irateraft:
Quite a bit off topic, but not exactly

Clearly Pirates and Pirate flags are so cool they have a day, but why don't they have a Monty Python Silly Walk day

oops wrong... I wonder if silly walk is also considered lame.. by that un fun group

Silly Walk Day | Just try it - it's fun


----------



## oysterman23

Flying them has become lame, asking is lamer, and flying a very large one puts the "pie-rat" into Hollywood so-lameity...

This pirate romance is a modern construct if a port royal pirate blew on one of us we'd expire from the stench of rotting teeth cheap rum and terminal B.O.. I cannot imagine the addition of cologne to "freshen up" hooo haaaa

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


----------



## titustiger27

yes, pirate's romance is a modern construct, like yesterday (May 23, 1883), when Treasure Island was published (though there were probably many other stories before that date.

It was made into a movie in 1950, but there were pirate movies in the 20's (1920's)

But that is off topic, since we are discussing if it is Lame to fly a jolly rogers, which some think it is, so do not.

A question that keeps coming to the forefront by the ... oh lets call them haters.... besides Pirate Flags what else do you *'judge' *to be lame.. what else do you say others should not do... because of mere opinion?

And while you are answering questions why *are* you so judgemental? Is there something about your opinion that makes you feel you are an authority on what is right or wrong (lame).

Don't hesitate in your answers.. you can only assume we will judge you... but many will not. can you guess which side will not judge ? :cut_out_animated_em


----------



## rgscpat

Many of the novelty flags have lameness potential, but context is crucial.


----------



## titustiger27

Context is probably key to this whole discussion of lameness. To me lame is doing something in an attempt to make yourself 'cool' or 'hip.' (Like when I wear my Mararitaville boat shoes to be cool, I know that is lame, but I focus ont he context of fun.) I would fly the jolly rogers because it is a novelty flag, like the flag with a martini on it is a novelty flag.

I don't think if you see a dinghy sailing around the harbor with a pirate flag raised, that you would be afraid they are going to plunder your yacht.

I don't think many fly it because they believe the flag has a rich sense of history, or they have some romantic sense it will make them look more manly or womanly. It is just fun... perhaps even a little silly... 

and that is the context.


10 more posts for this thread and I will be at 200


----------



## Minnewaska

titustiger27 said:


> ........A question that keeps coming to the forefront by the ... oh lets call them haters.... besides Pirate Flags what else do you *'judge' *to be lame.. what else do you say others should not do... because of mere opinion?
> 
> And while you are answering questions why *are* you so judgemental? Is there something about your opinion that makes you feel you are an authority on what is right or wrong (lame)......


This is the issue. You keep saying those that think flying the private flag is lame are haters, judgemental and are saying you shouldn't do it.

This thread specifically asked for an opinion. Just as if the OP asked whether others would dislike their house painted hot pink. I would reply that I didn't like that color house and that I believed most would agree. That's an opinion, but doesn't make one a hater, judgemental nor does it say they can't do it. You said these.

We can kid about whether the flags are lame (and they are) but saying those that think so are haters and insisting they are telling others what they should do is ironically judgemental.


----------



## titustiger27

Caring not if you fly a flag or not is NOT being judgmental...

_Caring_ is the judgmental part. The fact that the opening/original poster asked if you thought it was lame, was asking for opinion, not judgement

Saying flying a flag is lame and often suggesting the person who flies a flag is lame --- is being judgmental

While I have suggested haters hate, it is mainly because the position they take and the attitude

Much in the same way, you don't deny being judgmental or letting us know other things you judge society on. Though one could infer one item is Pink Houses and John Mellencamp.

Yes it is ironically judgmental to think (or point it out) your judging is judgmental - Guilty..


----------



## Minnewaska

So, you're saying that only opinions that agree with yours are non-judgemental.


----------



## titustiger27

No.. sorry, I will judge myself, and I will say the fact that you are judging... is judgmental... and accept in the fine line of judging, I will point out what you did. and that in fact that is being judgmental on my part, which is what I said in the previous post.

But I will say, maybe you aren't being judgmental, just looks like it.

And one must ask, what else do you judge?

Emojis?

Boat Shoes?

I will say, I don't believe you to be lame or a hater, though if it quacks it might be a bad doctor

Edit: there is a difference of saying what your opinion is about a subject, from saying others are wrong in their opinion, which I have often expressed an opinion.. one that is judgmental about your judging. dear I say...


irateraft:


eight more posts to 200


----------



## Minnewaska

I have an opinion on both emojis and boat shoes. Ask away. When you get an answer, it will be just that, an answer. You can judge it to be more, if you like. Just like you can fly a lame pirate flag, if you like.


----------



## titustiger27

So you have moved off 'is it lame to fly a pirate flag'

to the more judgmental 'lame flag'

Please note the original poster:



> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG


now is the flag lame, or those who fly them that is lame.

badda boom

7 from 200


----------



## single2coil

The author is just baiting everyone to argue with him. Don't bit. Never ending circle. Yes, there are people like this, no value added, just argue with no points or information. Waste


----------



## titustiger27

single2coil said:


> The author is just baiting everyone to argue with him. Don't bit. Never ending circle. Yes, there are people like this, no value added, just argue with no points or information. Waste


who is the author? the guy who posted the opening post five years ago..and stop posting shortly after that? only posting four posts in this thread (one more than you (at this point) I might add)... or one of us are (I am guessing) debating this for fun and seeing if we can outwit each other.

Which, I would contend, is waht is lame, but if it is our choice... so be it and so what...

It really is only about four people who are 'playing' in ernest

:2 boat: sail on friend.


----------



## therapy23

Minnewaska said:


> So, you're saying that only opinions that agree with yours are non-judgemental.


No, he is going to deny that.

What a hypocrite.

WE all know it is a long grey area. And we all know that there are limits to how much he will allow others to get away with before he makes a judgement.

He is going to pretend he follows the "live and let live" for all things but we know he has his limits just like everybody else. He will form opinions and more as he ages.

Just quit talking to him so he will shut the **** up.


----------



## Don L

Isn't flying a pirate flag and calling it about the freedom of the pirate lifestyle, instead of their being a bunch of murderous seafaring thieves kind of like

Flying a Nazi flag and calling it about the efficiency and purpose of the Nazi's instead of, ................ well you know

????


----------



## titustiger27

therapy23 said:


> No, he is going to deny that.
> 
> What a hypocrite.
> 
> WE all know it is a long grey area. And we all know that there are limits to how much he will allow others to get away with before he makes a judgement.
> 
> He is going to pretend he follows the "live and let live" for all things but we know he has his limits just like everybody else. He will form opinions and more as he ages.
> 
> Just quit talking to him so he will shut the **** up.


ouch... is that like name calling

well maybe you should read my posts and see who the hypocrite is..

not only do you call someone (it appears to be me) names...

you have to admit your post seems to be *against*

"live and let live"

Why???


----------



## titustiger27

Don0190 said:


> Isn't flying a pirate flag and calling it about the freedom of the pirate lifestyle, instead of their being a bunch of murderous seafaring thieves kind of like
> 
> Flying a Nazi flag and calling it about the efficiency and purpose of the Nazi's instead of, ................ well you know
> 
> ????


so you think a pirate flag is

=

to nazi flag?

nice


----------



## therapy23

titustiger27 said:


> ouch... is that like name calling
> 
> well maybe you should read my posts and see who the hypocrite is..
> 
> not only do you call someone (it appears to be me) names...
> 
> you have to admit your post seems to be *against*
> 
> "live and let live"
> 
> Why???


I have read your blather.

And I am not going to answer your leading questions. They are meaningless.
You are no different than anyone else. You just won't admit it so you can keep up your ******** argument(s).


----------



## titustiger27

The best thing about this thread is

people's true colors come out

blather... hypocrite

asterisks asterisks asterisks asterisks

I'm having trouble translating your snowflakes, maybe I should stop hanging with a civil crowd so I can understand the snowflakes

irateraft:


----------



## therapy23

titustiger27 said:


> so you think a pirate flag is
> 
> =
> 
> to nazi flag?
> 
> nice


No he doesn't, ya nitwit (yep, it's name calling. like your doctor duck, only direct).

He simply used the same type of stupid type of metaphoric argument you use.

NOTICE: I did *NOT *call you stupid.........yet.

Would you like this at the end? :grin


----------



## titustiger27

Does 'nitwit' ≠ 'stupid'

just asking


edit: :grin


----------



## therapy23

titustiger27 said:


> The best thing about this thread is
> 
> people's true colors come out
> 
> blather... hypocrite
> 
> asterisks asterisks asterisks asterisks
> 
> I'm having trouble translating your snowflakes, maybe I should stop hanging with a civil crowd so I can understand the snowflakes
> 
> irateraft:


You're full of crap.
You just go to forums and troll so you can prove yourself superior to others so you can sleep at night.

Pretending you don't judge or profile or have a defined set of mores which have boundaries may fool some but a lot of sailors are smarter than that.

Most of which are smarter than I and have simply blocked you or unsubscribed by now.

OH! What a great idea.

Bye.


----------



## Scotty C-M

Peace.


----------



## Minnesail

titustiger27 said:


> Clearly Pirates and Pirate flags are so cool they have a day, but why don't they have a Monty Python Silly Walk day
> 
> oops wrong... I wonder if silly walk is also considered lame.. by that un fun group
> 
> Silly Walk Day | Just try it - it's fun


This would be a fun novelty flag, but someone'd have to get pretty close to be able to see what it is:


----------



## Minnesail

rgscpat said:


> Many of the novelty flags have lameness potential, but context is crucial.


In the context of the recent SCOTUS decision and this being pride weekend, we ran a little pride up the flag halyard!

I'm really starting to like this novelty flag thing. Next weekend is obviously Old Glory on the stern and red, white, and blue bunting up the flag halyard. And now I'm scanning ahead on the calendar looking for other excuses to fly a flag. Bastille Day is July 14th, I guess I'd better round up a French tricolor.


----------



## GeorgeB

LAME? This entire squadron is LAME!


----------



## blt2ski

I've had my personal branded and made pirate flag up for about 4-5 years now.......

Will be flying this week too! Just look to left of this post to see my pirate flag!

Marty


----------



## blt2ski

George, 

What I like about the airplanes, is that squadron has personalized the setup to meet "their" needs. Not a typical disney skull and cross bones. 

As ALL pirate flags in the past have been. IE that ships a country per say, so they have there own flag/burgee. To me to some degree, if you have your own pirate flag, no different than flying a yacht club burgee in some senses. I would not try to compare it to the nazi flag etc.

Especially the one I fly!

marty


----------



## MedSailor

I had a mainsail made with a custom jolly roger logo put on it for the Formosa. Is the sail lame, or does it make the whole boat lame by association?

I thought it looked pretty cool myself! 


















MedSailor


----------



## Donna_F

ohforcryingoutloud.

C'mon peoples.


----------



## GeorgeB

DR, The "Blue Water" thread is ranging in on two thousand postings - we got a ways to go! (Step it up gentlemen!) Interesting, I saw four different boats sporting the Jolly Roger at my marina on Sunday. I guess we'll have to change Alameda's name to Tortuga. As we are ranging in on the fourth, what are people doing to "dress ship"? We will be running signal flags up the head stay and down the backstay. We will most likely fly my dad's presentation flag too. MrsB will do her usual bunting on the life lines.

The Jolly Rogers - Lamos since 1943


----------



## RTB

I might sell my pirate flag. The last time I flew it was in Marsh Harbor. We were at a bar, having drinks with some other cruisers. One lady asked "which boat are you on"? I said "the one out there flying the pirate flag". She gave me a blank (non-approving) stare. I haven't flown it since then. It kind of depends where you are, and the attitude you are able to exude. Hey, I got no cannons (or any other guns), no sword (I do have a fillet knife though), or grappling hooks to board another boat. No real nasty attitude. No pony tale, no beard, no tats, no piercings or ear rings. Not enough rum to share. I don't deserve the right to fly a pirate flag.

Hey, just drove to San Antonio from our boat (which we live aboard) to visit my son and G.F. My son is a gamer, and we used to spend too many hours playing on our PS 3. This trip, I went to Walmart, and bought Assassin's Creed® IV Black Flag? Game & Trailer | Ubisoft (US)

I had a blast. Unfortunately, this is only a "pretend" life. Definitely born many years too late. Just living the "here and now", these days. Cruising is still awesome......especially since there are way fewer pirates out there. :captain:

Ralph


----------



## titustiger27

I wonder what the "it's lame" crowd think of a personalized flag... well mainly a Pirate Flag? It seems to me that it is no longer a novelty, but more a motto... Yet at the same time, a pirate flag is a pirate flag.

And at the same time.. when the Supreme Court approved gay marriages and one flies the rainbow flag, to coincide it seems less a novelty and a recognition

But it could go both ways (no pun intended), There are those who believe you should not wear those hats they sell in gift shops like the "USS Enterprise" because they feel only if you served on that ship should you have that honor.

Of all the novelty items... it seems to me flying the Jolly Rogers is the one that people will least likely believe you are.

Flag the rainbow flag, some will think you are gay; fly the cocktail flag, and people will think you post in the single malt scotch thread.... and so on. Fly the jolly rogers and some might think you are lame, but few will actually think you are a pirate


one from 200


----------



## blt2ski

Med,

Only counts if you win a 5th of rum on said sail. I got that from YC with my personal flag. Had a cruise at Bremerton during there annual dock festival, it was pirate themed, so our clubs Cruise captain decided we should ALL have personal flag/burgees. The post manager walked around and did the voting as to who's was best. A std pirate flag store bought was a no go!

I have had a lot of fun with this flag. Anyone that see's our King Charles Cavalier can tell it is designed after Mr Winston!

Marty


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> I wonder what the "it's lame" crowd think of a personalized flag... well mainly a Pirate Flag? It seems to me that it is no longer a novelty, but more a motto... Yet at the same time, a pirate flag is a pirate flag.
> 
> And at the same time.. when the Supreme Court approved gay marriages and one flies the rainbow flag, to coincide it seems less a novelty and a recognition
> 
> But it could go both ways (no pun intended), There are those who believe you should not wear those hats they sell in gift shops like the "USS Enterprise" because they feel only if you served on that ship should you have that honor.
> 
> Of all the novelty items... it seems to me flying the Jolly Rogers is the one that people will least likely believe you are.
> 
> Flag the rainbow flag, some will think you are gay; fly the cocktail flag, and people will think you post in the single malt scotch thread.... and so on. Fly the jolly rogers and some might think you are lame, but few will actually think you are a pirate
> 
> one from 200


aye. and there be the error, me bucko. arrrgh.:2 boat:


----------



## RTB

titustiger27 said:


> Flag the rainbow flag, some will think you are gay; fly the cocktail flag, and people will think you post in the single malt scotch thread.... and so on. Fly the jolly rogers and some might think you are lame, but few will actually think you are a pirate
> 
> one from 200


Fly any flag in an inappropriate position, and you are an idiot. Not lame. Sorry if I missed your pic of the JR flying on your boat. Do you mind showing us?


----------



## titustiger27

RTB said:


> Fly any flag in an inappropriate position, and you are an idiot. Not lame. Sorry if I missed your pic of the JR flying on your boat. Do you mind showing us?


I don't fly any flag (Have a distressed flag tucked away)....

I own several, and display them, but not on a boat

here is the one I made:










200​


----------



## RTB

So, you don't fly a pirate flag on *your* boat??? wtf?????


----------



## jerryrlitton

Have not seen a rainbow pirate flag yet, and I am happy.


----------



## titustiger27

If you think something isn't lame... that means you have to do it?

There are a lot of freedoms (as well) that I believe in, but don't do.


----------



## Steve in Idaho

titustiger27 said:


> The best thing about this thread is
> 
> people's true colors come out
> 
> blather... hypocrite
> 
> asterisks asterisks asterisks asterisks
> 
> I'm having trouble translating your snowflakes, maybe I should stop hanging with a civil crowd so I can understand the snowflakes
> 
> irateraft:


Damn. I understood all those snowflakes. You're saying I'm uncivil? :eek And I only had one post in this thread.....which I believe I will now retract, because it was lame. :angel

You guys are a hoot!


----------



## Don L

RTB said:


> I had a blast. Unfortunately, this is only a "pretend" life. Definitely born many years too late. Just living the "here and now", these days. Cruising is still awesome......especially since there are way fewer pirates out there. :captain:
> 
> Ralph


Hey maybe this "born too late" is the key to the whole lame thing.

If you are flying a pirate flag, but not willing to wander around the seas looking for a chance to disable someone else's boat, then board the boat and start hacking up anyone who resists your stealing their stuff with a sword, then flying the flag is lame. Are you really are is a standard fake tough guy.

If you are willing to hack up your fellow boaters then thanks for warning us by flying the flag.


----------



## Don L

Question - if you fly your play pirate flag while sailing off the coast of Somalia, do the real pirates give you a pass because you are one of them?. Or do they laugh their asses off just before they take away your boat?


----------



## captain jack

RTB said:


> Fly any flag in an inappropriate position, and you are an idiot. Not lame. Sorry if I missed your pic of the JR flying on your boat. Do you mind showing us?


well, sir. perhaps, with the recent supreme court ruling, the time to hold things to long held, traditional standards of appropriateness (or lameness) is done. would it not be discriminatory to judge someone negatively because they failed to adhere to some dusty old standard, set well before our time of enlightenment? where is your sense of tolerance for those that might be a little different than you? aren't we all, now, freed from the bonds of past social or legal standards; allowed to freely do whatever we please with no one allowed to voice a word of protest or disagreement? :grin

:Luxury:

:sailing-pilgrims:

:cut_out_animated_em

:svoilier:

yay! we, now, have sailing smilies! sailnet will never be the same. but, where's the bloody pirate smiley? still none? uuuugghhh!:devil


----------



## captain jack

jerryrlitton said:


> Have not seen a rainbow pirate flag yet, and I am happy.


give it time, sir. give it time.


----------



## blt2ski

irateraft:


----------



## Don L

I don't understand the connection between thieving murders on the seas (pirates) and gay rights. :hammer


----------



## rwells1022

I agree..


----------



## therapy23

Don0190 said:


> I don't understand the connection between thieving murders on the seas (pirates) and gay rights. :hammer


Maybe it is the sodomy.

Give it a whirl and get back to us.


----------



## captain jack

blt2ski said:


> irateraft:


hmmm. i didn't see that in the options. cool. i see. i missed the little (more) sign at the bottom.


----------



## captain jack

Don0190 said:


> I don't understand the connection between thieving murders on the seas (pirates) and gay rights. :hammer


i don't either. it appeared with that pic of the gay flag flying from the shrouds. once it had a foot in the door, it appears it was here to stay. hmmm coincidence?


----------



## Don L

therapy23 said:


> Maybe it is the sodomy.
> 
> Give it a whirl and get back to us.


Might consider the murdering thieving part, afterwards I could fly a pirate flag and it wouldn't be lame for me. But still lame for others.

I don't have an issue if someone wants to do the same prereq for flying a rainbow flag. But if you want to combine the flags it seems only fair that you have to have combined the two actions.


----------



## Alibaba

radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG


If you live in Pittsburgh you will see quite a few Pirate flags on the 3 rivers outside the stadium. No one will shoot at you.
Be careful. Just don't fly a Cleveland Browns anything within 200 miles of here.

Be careful, once you get past the head of the Ohio, The bridges only have 40`clearance.. and the wind is scare in the deep valleys.

I hope this clears things up for you.


----------



## titustiger27

Don0190 said:


> I don't understand the connection between thieving murders on the seas (pirates) and gay rights. :hammer





rwells1022 said:


> I agree..


my guess is the point is that there are an appropriate time and place for everything, including flags ---- be it rainbow or jolly rogers

Which -- intentions or not --- I find key

You don't have to fly a pirate flag, think it is lame... definitely you shouldn't fly it.

*edit:*

don't fly a pirate flag where the Cleveland Browns play



Alibaba said:


> If you live in Pittsburgh you will see quite a few Pirate flags on the 3 rivers outside the stadium. No one will shoot at you.
> Be careful. Just don't fly a Cleveland Browns anything within 200 miles of here.
> 
> Be careful, once you get past the head of the Ohio, The bridges only have 40`clearance.. and the wind is scare in the deep valleys.
> 
> I hope this clears things up for you.


----------



## Ritchard

Pirate flags are like dentists on Harleys, or people who claim to be "really crazy!"


----------



## titustiger27

ahem....


----------



## captain jack

Ritchard said:


> Pirate flags are like dentists on Harleys, or people who claim to be "really crazy!"


so.....what you are saying. let me make sure i get this right. what you are saying is that you can't be a biker and ride a motorcycle (or specifically a harley) unless you have a certain career. is that right?

i'm not a dentist or anything, so, i suppose it doesn't affect me directly. i suppose i have always had motorcycle worthy jobs. construction. motorcycle mechanic. welder. machinist. that kind of thing. i'm assuming such 'manly' blue collar work is what you think a biker should do. i hope it's not that you assume bikers should be poor, while dentists are fairly well to do, because, harleys are very expensive (hd stands for hundred dollars) and you practically need to be a dentist or something to go into the dealership and buy one.

anyhow, i have to tell you, i think that's a raft of ****.

i think that, in order to be a biker, it requires that you ride....a lot. that motorcycles are up there with your biggest priorities. that you at least have some idea of basic maintenance and can handle some basic roadside mechanical emergencies. the last two may just be me and my prejudice. i sway towards thinking every biker should be mechanically inclined. perhaps that is wrong. however, for a real biker who spends his life in the saddle, often several days ride away from anyone they can call to their rescue, it seems to me that mechanical ability is a survival skill.

however, i don't see that what you do for a living has *anything* to do with you being a real biker or not. there are dentists that are real bikers and there are construction workers that are weekend warriors.

of course, you didn't say biker. you said ride a harley. there is a big difference between a real biker and a harley rider. not all real bikers ride harleys and most harley riders aren't real bikers. but, i'm assuming that you meant biker when you said ride a harley. most people do and that sounded like it was your meaning.

that's the same kind of stereotyping that some of the anti-pirate flag people (i don't mean those who just thought it was lame. i meant ati pirate flag people) have been putting out about people who choose to fly a pirate flag: they are all immature, alcoholics, who can't sail their boats, and are obnoxious buttholes.

i have been dealing with that kind of small minded bs all my life. maybe that's one reason for my continued involvement in this thread.

it's better now that the yuppies started riding. back when i was younger, cops messed with you just because you were on a bike. you didn't have to do anything to get harassed. little old ladies would act like you were one of Attila's huns just waiting to rape their teenage daughters. employers often wouldn't hire you. there were even establishments that wouldn't let you come it to eat or get a beer. they'd have signs in the window letting everyone who might look like a biker know they couldn't come in.

it's different now....thanks to the yuppies (yeah. the dentists you disdain).

heck, i was seeing this 21 year old a few years ago (half my age). the second date she calls her mom out to meet me. so, here's this rough looking 42 year old biker with a big knife on his hip and a hoop in each ear and a red bandanna. leather jacket with chains and skulls on it. Satan's chopper leaning on it's kickstand; devil's pitchfork sissy bar and spikes for footpegs with a coffin tank. no rear suspension. just visualize the scene. it was what i thought was going to be a nightmare situation. she met me, thought i was a nice guy, and was ok with me seeing her daughter. that would have been a different scene when i was younger, before the yuppies started riding.

neither you nor anyone else can tell anything about a person by their job, the brand of their bike, the color of their skin, the boat they sail...or the pirate flag they might fly.


----------



## titustiger27

I saw it a different way... that a dentist on a Harley, only thinks he is a bad dude, but still is a doctor thinking he is cool because he has the coin to buy a Electro Glide... so if you fly a jolly rogers you are some kind of poser..

I've been wrong before.


----------



## captain jack

titustiger27 said:


> I saw it a different way... that a dentist on a Harley, only thinks he is a bad dude, but still is a doctor thinking he is cool because he has the coin to buy a Electro Glide... so if you fly a jolly rogers you are some kind of poser..
> 
> I've been wrong before.


that's exactly how he meant it and what i responded to. poser=not a real biker. thus, you can't be a real biker if you are a dentist and if you are a dentist and you ride a harley you must be a poser. i got him totally.


----------



## Ritchard

It's simple. 

Dentists on Harleys tend not to be the badasses they wish they were and are trying to portray. People who claim to be crazy rarely are, an are often the most button-down people. People who fly pirate flags tend to be good people who toss down a beer or two and despite their desires to be fearsome outsiders, their worst piratical trait is noise-making.

I have not read this thread, and really came in to drop a smart-ass bomb, but I am sure it has been mentioned in the thread that the flag is objectionable. In the same fashion that we are now discussing the historical connotation of the confederate flag, the skull and crossbones carries with it a terrible legacy of wanton criminality. 

Oh, and people that fly rebel flags tend not to be rebels, but rather sheepish people who wish they were.


----------



## Minnesail

Don0190 said:


> I don't understand the connection between thieving murders on the seas (pirates) and gay rights. :hammer


Oh, that was me.

Since there doesn't appear to be any clear purpose to this thread I'm using it to post pictures of any and all decoration I run up the flag halyard. Two weekends ago it was a Jolly Roger, last weekend it was a Pride flag, this weekend will obviously be red white & blue.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnesail said:


> Oh, that was me.
> 
> Since there doesn't appear to be any clear purpose to this thread I'm using it to post pictures of any and all decoration I run up the flag halyard. Two weekends ago it was a Jolly Roger, last weekend it was a Pride flag, this weekend will obviously be red white & blue.


Not to go too far on a tangent, but do you have a lot of flags for different purposes? Do you have holiday flags? (just a general question )


----------



## Minnesail

titustiger27 said:


> Not to go too far on a tangent, but do you have a lot of flags for different purposes? Do you have holiday flags? (just a general question )


I just installed the flag halyard at the beginning of June, so I don't have a lot of flags YET. So far just the Jolly Roger, pride, and some red white & blue banners.

But my wife and one of her friends are both good with a sewing machine (the friend made my Jolly Roger), so I see lots of novelty flags in my future!

The screwball flag should be up next:


----------



## titustiger27

Minnesail said:


> I just installed the flag halyard at the beginning of June, so I don't have a lot of flags YET. So far just the Jolly Roger, pride, and some red white & blue banners.
> 
> But my wife and one of her friends are both good with a sewing machine (the friend made my Jolly Roger), so I see lots of novelty flags in my future!
> 
> The screwball flag should be up next:


Awesome.. I had to search the image for Duck -- Amuck


​


----------



## captain jack

Ritchard said:


> It's simple.
> 
> Dentists on Harleys tend not to be the badasses they wish they were and are trying to portray. People who claim to be crazy rarely are, an are often the most button-down people. People who fly pirate flags tend to be good people who toss down a beer or two and despite their desires to be fearsome outsiders, their worst piratical trait is noise-making.
> 
> I have not read this thread, and really came in to drop a smart-ass bomb, but I am sure it has been mentioned in the thread that the flag is objectionable. In the same fashion that we are now discussing the historical connotation of the confederate flag, the skull and crossbones carries with it a terrible legacy of wanton criminality.
> 
> Oh, and people that fly rebel flags tend not to be rebels, but rather sheepish people who wish they were.


we have already gone through the whole 'people who fly the pirate flag are evil because it is a symbol of illegal acts (acts that are judged to be ok when done by 'legit' nations but, i digress) and the evil people who did them and therefore people who fly pirate flags must be in support of such evil acts' thing.

much like this whole meaningless issue over the battle flag of the confederacy, it's a lot of nothing. pirate flags don't cause piracy. confederate flags don't cause racism (the war wasn't even really fought over slavery, for pete's sake).

banning the image of the confederate flag will not make this a better world. nor would banning the jolly roger. both are flags of events that are hundreds of years in the past.

"Oh, and people that fly rebel flags tend not to be rebels, but rather sheepish people who wish they were."

:laugh:laugh:laugh surely thou dost jest! that is far from the truth. so so far. where do you live that you think that? lol. you want to talk about badasses. some of the biggest real badasses, bikers and good ol boys, that i have known have proudly flown the rebel flag.

it has long been popular in the biker community. you'd have to actually be a biker to know that, rather than making judgments from outside of the community. i admit, i have flown them and i have worn them. i've also worn a lot of skulls with and without crossbones- also popular with bikers (and i'm definitely not what you'd call sheepish). the rebel flag is a symbol of states rights. that's what the war was about. it's not a symbol of hatred for blacks. i am dating a black chick! she's got enough sense to see the reality behind all this hot air over that flag. more sense than a good many white people, out there.

(there are people calling to ban Ol Glory because America has been such an evil country. you going to justify that by saying that flag is objectionable?)

it, meaning the rebel flag, is now an unpopular, non-PC symbol. so we are going to get rid of all of them. pretend that time in history didn't happen (might as well. we don't even admit the actual history behind it, anyhow). reminds me of some events that took place in Russia a number of years ago. statues torn down. images destroyed. history books even changed. just change the history and hide it, when you don't like it. that's the way to make the world a better place.

"objectionable". people are such dainties, anymore. "oh. boo hoo. that sure is objectionable.it's just not fit for dainty ears to hear. almost got my panties in a twist.'

i swear, as many times as i have read the constitution and the federalist papers, i don't seem to recall any provision saying that people have the right to keep other people from saying things or displaying images that they found objectionable. in fact, i believe the right to free speech especially applies to speech that is challenging or controversial. you don't need the right to free speech if it only protects the speech big brother likes.

it's no wonder Seinfeld and Chris rock stopped performing at colleges. when everything that could be seen or said threatens to be seen as objectionable and get someone up in arms (over nothing at all), what's the use at trying to do comedy? you can't joke about anything without someone getting all offended.

glad i'm at least half way through life. it won't be long, at this rate, before people will make you go to the bathroom and fart in a ziplock baggie, disposed of by hazmat, so you don't offend someone's sensitive wittew nose.:2 boat:

and, no, that smiley doesn't especially apply to the preceding sentence. it just happens that i smoke a pipe and i sail. and, i know, tobacco smoke is objectionable....and i don't really care one bit.


----------



## Don L

sometimes I think, WOW just WOW


----------



## titustiger27

Somethings I think MOM, just MOM

Like on Mothers Day, I know that is upside down

irateraft:


----------



## jerryrlitton

I think that would be a distress signal of some sort.


----------



## Ritchard

This to Captain Jack:

I have many tens of thousands of miles on motorcycles, so I think I understand bikers.

My point is that for a great many people these symbols are wanna-be imagery. As such, they are in my opinion lame. But I am never going to tell anybody not to fly them. Obviously personal choice is of the utmost importance. Wait, that's not entirely true. One time on a long passage on my boat my buddy pulled out his pirate flag to run up. As I object to pirate motifs I politely asked him not to. He flies it on his own boat all the time. Fair enough.

As for the rebel flag, perhaps it is a symbol of states rights, I don't know. But I know for sure it is a symbol of racism, as the KKK is now fighting for it to remain in its "proper" place. Fly a rebel flag all you want, but as long as it is such a strong symbol of many decades of hate and fear in your country, perhaps flying it at capitol buildings no longer appropriate. 

I'm out.


----------



## titustiger27

jerryrlitton said:


> I think that would be a distress signal of some sort.


I agree

​


----------



## Dave_E

Can we PLEASE not turn this thread into a political battle about racism and the Confederate flag? Please!? If you are even halfway in the know.. we are bombarded with this PC crap; the miniscule population of gays, athiests and loons telling the country how to live, what to say and how to act. This is one of the few sites I go to escape. Can I get a "harumph"?


----------



## jerryrlitton

Ritchard said:


> This to Captain Jack:
> 
> I have many tens of thousands of miles on motorcycles, so I think I understand bikers.
> 
> My point is that for a great many people these symbols are wanna-be imagery. As such, they are in my opinion lame. But I am never going to tell anybody not to fly them. Obviously personal choice is of the utmost importance. Wait, that's not entirely true. One time on a long passage on my boat my buddy pulled out his pirate flag to run up. As I object to pirate motifs I politely asked him not to. He flies it on his own boat all the time. Fair enough.
> 
> As for the rebel flag, perhaps it is a symbol of states rights, I don't know. But I know for sure it is a symbol of racism, as the KKK is now fighting for it to remain in its "proper" place. Fly a rebel flag all you want, but as long as it is such a strong symbol of many decades of hate and fear in your country, perhaps flying it at capitol buildings no longer appropriate.
> 
> I'm out.


Lol heck, putting the Ten Commandments is a no no in front of federal buildings for some reason. Take a stand and don't bend over. We can call anything racist if we want. Get over it. BTW flying the pirate flag is OK by me.


----------



## Minnesail

Wow, this already senseless thread took a turn for the loony!



So for Independence Day I'm going to be flying Old Glory off the stern, obvs. I have some red white & blue bunting that I was thinking of tying along the lifelines. And I have a string of red white & blue pennant flags that I was thinking I'd run up the flag halyard.

Would that be lame?


----------



## Don L

Dave_E said:


> Can we PLEASE not turn this thread into a political battle about racism and the Confederate flag? Please!? If you are even halfway in the know.. we are bombarded with this PC crap; the miniscule population of gays, athiests and loons telling the country how to live, what to say and how to act. This is one of the few sites I go to escape. Can I get a "harumph"?


Just so funny. A opening peal not to turn the thread into what the rest of the post really was :chainsaw


----------



## RTB

Minnesail said:


> Wow, this already senseless thread took a turn for the loony!
> 
> So for Independence Day I'm going to be flying Old Glory off the stern, obvs. I have some red white & blue bunting that I was thinking of tying along the lifelines. And I have a string of red white & blue pennant flags that I was thinking I'd run up the flag halyard.
> 
> Would that be lame?


If you really care, check out your Chapmans. Or take a look here - Flag and Etiquette Committee

Hey, I'm more traditional, and maybe let some things bug me. Others don't care. So....it depends. Really, while cruising to the Keys and Bahamas, and back up the coast to Georgia, I don't recall much flag flying (other than courtesy and national flags, that are being flown appropriately). Maybe in your area, you see inappropriate flag etiquette, because people don't know any better, or just don't care. Of course, there are plenty of boats out there not following the "rules of the road", for probably the same reason.

Ralph


----------



## Minnesail

RTB said:


> If you really care, check out your Chapmans. Or take a look here - Flag and Etiquette Committee
> 
> Hey, I'm more traditional, and maybe let some things bug me. Others don't care. So....it depends. Really, while cruising to the Keys and Bahamas, and back up the coast to Georgia, I don't recall much flag flying (other than courtesy and national flags, that are being flown appropriately). Maybe in your area, you see inappropriate flag etiquette, because people don't know any better, or just don't care. Of course, there are plenty of boats out there not following the "rules of the road", for probably the same reason.
> 
> Ralph


Huh?

Flying the American flag off the stern is appropriate.

As for the decorative pennants, I don't think your link or Chapman has much to say.


----------



## GeorgeB

From Chapman's, aren't we supposed to fly the US Yachting Ensign domestically, and the stars and stripes when we travel internationally? Isn't a Jolly Roger classified as an association flag (If you belong to the international brotherhood of pirates and are bound by the "Pirate Code") or as an owner's personal flag? Both are appropriately flown off of the spreader. If a Jolly Roger displayed as an association or owner's flag is lame? What about Battle and House Flags?


----------



## captain jack

Minnesail said:


> Wow, this already senseless thread took a turn for the loony!
> 
> So for Independence Day I'm going to be flying Old Glory off the stern, obvs. I have some red white & blue bunting that I was thinking of tying along the lifelines. And I have a string of red white & blue pennant flags that I was thinking I'd run up the flag halyard.
> 
> Would that be lame?


not one bit


----------



## RTB

Minnesail said:


> Huh?
> 
> Flying the American flag off the stern is appropriate.
> 
> As for the decorative pennants, I don't think your link or Chapman has much to say.


Yes, American flag off the stern. I just didn't know about the other flags (where to fly them). Go for it. Happy 4th. Enjoy the day, and be safe out there.

Ralph


----------



## titustiger27

GeorgeB said:


> From Chapman's, aren't we supposed to fly the US Yachting Ensign domestically, and the stars and stripes when we travel internationally? Isn't a Jolly Roger classified as an association flag (If you belong to the international brotherhood of pirates and are bound by the "Pirate Code") or as an owner's personal flag? Both are appropriately flown off of the spreader. If a Jolly Roger displayed as an association or owner's flag is lame? What about Battle and House Flags?


I searched the image and I like the quote next to the (battle) flag

"Jean launching the battle flag! (Kim's photo) Now we're really getting serious!!! (About yacht racing, that is!)."


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> not one bit


I take offense to this comment

_1) Daffy Duck (duck amuck) is a loony toon

2) me... though I can't carry a tune, I am a bit of a loon_


----------



## RTB

Podcast: What It Means To Fly The Jolly Roger | Cruising Outpost Magazine

I guess Bob Bitchin thinks "not lame". Of course, he's not your normal cruiser.

Ralph


----------



## titustiger27

RTB said:


> Podcast: What It Means To Fly The Jolly Roger | Cruising Outpost Magazine
> 
> I guess Bob Bitchin thinks "not lame". Of course, he's not your normal cruiser.
> 
> Ralph


Bob B, is kind of fun loving right

Happy (US) independence day


----------



## RobGallagher

Happy Independence Day!

"Liberty has never come from the government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it. The history of liberty is a history of resistance."
Woodrow Wilson

"A friend is someone who gives you total freedom to be yourself."
Jim Morrison

"Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil." 
Jerry Garcia


----------



## titustiger27

if you have to choose between two evils

take the fun one

you probably won't have to meet her dad


Edit: #2

if you have to choose between two evils

take the pretty one


----------



## captain jack

RobGallagher said:


> Happy Independence Day!
> 
> "Liberty has never come from the government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it. The history of liberty is a history of resistance."
> Woodrow Wilson
> 
> "A friend is someone who gives you total freedom to be yourself."
> Jim Morrison
> 
> "Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil."
> Jerry Garcia


great quotes and an awesome flag. black flags show piratical intent. red flag shows no quarter. tie dye flag shows it's all good. :wink


----------



## titustiger27

captain jack said:


> great quotes and an awesome flag. black flags show piratical intent. red flag shows no quarter. tie dye flag shows it's all good. :wink


I thought Black Flag was rock and roll

Six Pack and TV Party


----------



## RobGallagher

So does that make Henry Rollins lame?


----------



## titustiger27

RobGallagher said:


> So does that make Henry Rollins lame?


Just his tattoos

none are naval

Edit: also, I think he left Black Flag long ago...


----------



## titustiger27

I saw this rafting company... I don't think they are lame


----------



## titustiger27

been watching the Accidental Sailor Girl Vlog

to show they aren't lame, they keep the flag down below










the girl in the picture is the Accidental Sailor Girl's Boyfriend's Daughter


----------



## titustiger27

what is this world coming to

_Princesses and Pirates???
_

Score a pirate or princess bobblehead Sunday, July 12 | Toledo Mud Hens News


----------



## Scotty C-M

"The lessor of two weevils." 

Who is that quote from??

(hint: not a pirate.)


----------



## titustiger27

Scotty C-M said:


> "The lessor of two weevils."
> 
> Who is that quote from??
> 
> (hint: not a pirate.)


Punxsutawney Phil?


----------



## Minnesail

My friend the seamstress made me another homemade Jolly Roger, this one with a cat theme.

Lame? Probably.

Did I fly it? Heck yeah!


----------



## rgscpat

Weevils... Jack Aubrey dishing Stephen Maturin. (Patrick O'Brian)


----------



## sailpower




----------



## titustiger27

We all *need* a seamstress friend.

rock on

edit: not only is that not lame that is actually funny and enjoyable


----------



## dsehl

Everyone should listen to that podcast up above from Bob Bitchin and not take life so seriously. Drink some rum and be happy... Im drinking some Blackheart Rum right now!
Have since bought a new "old" sailboat, so its time to take down the jolly roger from the garage wall and hoist it up the next holiday at the marina.

-Capt (again) Dan


----------



## titustiger27

dsehl said:


> Everyone should listen to that podcast up above from Bob Bitchin and not take life so seriously. Drink some rum and be happy... Im drinking some Blackheart Rum right now!
> Have since bought a new "old" sailboat, so its time to take down the jolly roger from the garage wall and hoist it up the next holiday at the marina.
> 
> -Capt (again) Dan


I think this is what the whole thread has delved into..

If you take life too serious.. or you are a bit judgmental... how could you possibly stand others, especially those who like to have fun...

Carry on Captain.


----------



## blt2ski

Well, at least minnesail has his/her own pirate flag! unlike many of the rest of you! 

Mine is in my avitar if someone thinks I do not fit the having my own design........

marty


----------



## titustiger27

blt2ski said:


> Well, at least minnesail has his/her own pirate flag! unlike many of the rest of you!
> 
> Mine is in my avitar if someone thinks I do not fit the having my own design........
> 
> marty


not everyone is as creative


----------



## Delirious

I never fly a Jolly Rodger (in spite of my avatar); but is anyone still flying one of these? I rotate this one with my courtesy flag (state flag or Canadian flag) at my masthead pig-stick. We have an unstayed mast so it limits my display points.


----------



## titustiger27

Nice!


----------



## CruisingKitty

We fly our personal signal. If we shoot a cannon at someone, that will become our pirate flag. Isn't that how pirate flags were made?


----------



## titustiger27

I thought pirate flags were made with cloth, needle and threads


:cut_out_animated_em


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

I anchored off "Naked Island" (Passage Key) in Tampa Bay once, my buddy noticed a few boats had pirate flags flying and immediately went to grab ours. I said, "Ed, why don't we out just what that means before just hoist the ol' pirate flag? We might just regret that."


----------



## mikel1

I love this five year thread . . . . . . Deep topic . . . So much brain power . . . Intellectual candy . . . All good stuff . . Really! The analysis is great, and fun . . . Lovin it . . .


----------



## bfloyd4445

Minnesail said:


> My friend the seamstress made me another homemade Jolly Roger, this one with a cat theme.
> 
> Lame? Probably.
> 
> Did I fly it? Heck yeah!


Great flag, love it:laugh


----------



## titustiger27

Sail net


----------



## titustiger27

Man it is going down to 33 in the Adirondack Ocean.. I am fighting off a cold with Orange spice tea, honey and Mount Gay

and my Mizzen Feathers are shaking

time to remind everyone the love of a pirate flag


----------



## bfloyd4445

titustiger27 said:


> Man it is going down to 33 in the Adirondack Ocean.. I am fighting off a cold with Orange spice tea, honey and Mount Gay
> 
> and my Mizzen Feathers are shaking
> 
> time to remind everyone the love of a pirate flag


you need a bit of shine in your tea to kick that colds butt and send it on its way


----------



## titustiger27

bfloyd4445 said:


> you need a bit of shine in your tea to kick that colds butt and send it on its way


Mount Gay is the shine


----------



## bfloyd4445

:svoilier:


titustiger27 said:


> Mount Gay is the shine


That will work!:laugh


----------



## titustiger27

bfloyd4445 said:


> :svoilier:
> That will work!:laugh


I don't need the honey, but it makes me a sweeter person

:laugh


----------



## bfloyd4445

randyrhines said:


> Oh my that was a mess, and a grievous embarrassment to the Joly Roger..... Chuckles....
> Thanks for sharing this one! Lol


Sure looks like it but you had plenty of help.


----------



## Don L

lame


----------



## RobGallagher

Rocks


----------



## titustiger27

live and let live


----------



## WindchaserPY23

Well you have to admit, this question has evoked a lot of responses. From From "Commodores" of the local yacht club, to old hippies at heart, and everyone in between. I personally don't get my shorts in a knot about what people fly or don't fly as long as proper protocols are observed for national flags and such. It's the veteran in me I guess.

As far as rum goes, Mount Gay is a fine rum as is Appleton Estates but my personal favourite has to be Black Seal from Bermuda.

Capt'n Ed
s/v Talisman

btw, just sailed her over to the marine storage to be put on the hard... end of season up here in the Great White North. :-(


----------



## titustiger27

Mount Gay is more a memory from my trip to Barbados.. I haven't experimented much with rum.


----------



## Minnewaska

WindchaserPY23 said:


> ....I personally don't get my shorts in a knot about what people fly or don't fly.....


Me either. The boat right next to me, flies one 24/7. I don't insist, nor suggest, he remove it. I do think it's lame.

The classic defense from those that do not find it lame, is to try to make more of the objection than there really is.

So, for giggles, I looked up the official definition of lame. In this context, it is "unconvincingly feeble". Two different sources.

Let's start with feeble... that is defined, again in this context, as "lacking strength of character". However, lame is qualified as doing so "unconvincingly". Hilarious.

I would say that flying a pirate flag is unconvincingly displaying a lack of strength of character. Confusing, makes no sense, wondering why one would try to make such a statement? IOW, one is trying to say they lack character, when they don't? Exactly. Lame.


----------



## titustiger27

I never personally let my shorts get in a bunch.

I let them fly free... keeps the old bones comfy


----------



## Minnewaska

Maybe Titus isn't lame, as he/she is more convincingly feeble. 

But flying pirate flags remains lame.


----------



## titustiger27

I tip my sailor's cap to the lame camp.

your opinion is lame.. which makes your thoughts on pirate flags, moot and lame

:2 boat:


----------



## Minnewaska

Sailor's caps. Also lame.

You know, I've seen pirate flags. I've not actually seen anyone wear a sailors cap, since Thurston Howell.


----------



## titustiger27

I guess you can go through life and deciding everything 'fun' = 'lame'


I do not.

thank you very much


----------



## Minnewaska

Sailing is fun, that's not lame. 

Lame are only those things that are "unconvincingly feeble". You're welcome to argue that you're convincingly feeble, if you prefer.


----------



## Tanski

I personally wouldn't go out and buy one, but I'm cheap, somebody made me one that was funny and dog based I would fly it for fun. If they would keep them on I'd even put pirate hats on the dogs! They would eat the parrot though.....
Life is far too short to care what other people think as long as your having fun and not endangering anybody. Only an idiot would mistake your sailboat for a real pirate ship. Far as I'm concerned the political correctness police can take a long swim in a holding tank!
A buddy of mine a couple times a summer decks out his powerboat as a pirate ship and takes younger kids from group homes out for boat rides, does them up with pirate hats and swords, he is a deacon(?) or whatever at his church, just part of the work he does for his community.


----------



## Minnewaska

Tanski said:


> ....Life is far too short to care what other people think as long as your having fun and not endangering anybody.


Good answer for the OP. Ironically, however, he/she was specifically asking what other people think, when they started this thread. No one started a thread to proactively tell people not to fly them.

I'm certainly not saying anyone can't or shouldn't. Only that they are lame, as asked. ie, unconvincingly feeble.



> ....the political correctness police can take a long swim in a holding tank!


I don't follow who is saying they are politically incorrect, but I'll agree with your comment in general about PC.


----------



## RobGallagher

Since we have moved on to definitions...

I pose this question, is the pirate flag even a 'flag' by definition. I say it is not. 

It represents no organization or group. It communicates nothing, except maybe that someone has a sense of humor.

The Jolly Roger is about as flag-like as those on pins at a golf course.

So to those who worry it could interfere with proper flag protocol, it simply cannot.


----------



## caberg

Over five years of debating this topic and no one has taken a simple poll?

Assuming "cool" is the opposite of "lame" it looks like "cool" has a decent margin here.

http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2011/03/question-of-the-week-are-pirate-flags-still-cool/

For what it's worth (which is nothing), I think it depends on the person and the boat. There is no blanket _it's always cool_ or _it's always lame_ answer that fits every situation. In other words, some people and boats can pull it off, others just look dumb. That's true for a lot of things.


----------



## XSrcing

I want to live in a world where people aren't judged for the flags they fly. I stand with Transpirates.


----------



## capttb

To me a pirate flag "communicates" the message "Even if I knew the Rules of the Road, I'm a pirate and chose to ignore them".


----------



## RobGallagher

capttb said:


> To me a pirate flag "communicates" the message "Even if I knew the Rules of the Road, I'm a pirate and chose to ignore them".


People hear what they want to hear.


----------



## SVGimmeShelter

In our group of friends all boats sport a flag, and the aim of the game is to dinghy over, climb on deck and steal it without waking the boat. So hoisting another boats flag is a high sign of pride. 

Ours is always the Jolly Roger


----------



## Minnewaska

caberg said:


> ....Assuming "cool" is the opposite of "lame" it looks like "cool" has a decent margin here......


I don't think it is. The opposite would be convincingly feeble as the definition is unconvincingly feeble.


----------



## Minnewaska

XSrcing said:


> I want to live in a world where people aren't judged for the flags they fly. I stand with Transpirates.


And again......... the question wasn't whether the people are lame, it's whether flying the pirate flag is lame. That's the question. Look up.


----------



## XSrcing

Minnewaska said:


> And again......... the question wasn't whether the people are lame, it's whether flying the pirate flag is lame. That's the question. Look up.


It's a good thing you ducked.


----------



## titustiger27

caberg said:


> Over five years of debating this topic and no one has taken a simple poll?
> 
> Assuming "cool" is the opposite of "lame" it looks like "cool" has a decent margin here.
> 
> http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2011/03/question-of-the-week-are-pirate-flags-still-cool/
> 
> For what it's worth (which is nothing), I think it depends on the person and the boat. There is no blanket _it's always cool_ or _it's always lame_ answer that fits every situation. In other words, some people and boats can pull it off, others just look dumb. That's true for a lot of things.


Pole would be nice, you run a flag up it...

but if a flag.. any flag is lame.. you don't vote on it..

We don't defer to the cool table in the high school lunch room to what is lame (unless you are a 'mean girl')

We see fun, and we embrace it...

or we don't, and go yell at the kids to get off our lawn and suck the life (and wind) out of anything enjoyable.


----------



## FireBird1976

We always flew one upside down dockside to let folks know the beer was cold and to stop on by. : )


----------



## titustiger27

FireBird1976 said:


> We always flew one upside down dockside to let folks know the beer was cold and to stop on by. : )


I thought that was the sign of distress

in your case (or six-pack) shouldn't you be flying something like this:










maybe with a beer on it


----------



## Scotty C-M

I went out sailing today with a full crew, which included my granddaughter and two second grade classmates. So I left the question up to them: Should we fly the Pirate Flag? All three girls gave the unequivocal answer, YES! So we flew it. We sailed along the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk, and identified the rides. We looked for, and found, sea otters and sea lions. Then we achored out and ate a great lunch. After that we sailed in about 15 knots of wind for a while, before heading downwind towards home. We even went swimming for a bit while at anchor. Now, how could any part of that be anything less than totally cool? I've got to admit that if you think that the flag was lame, you and I will just have to agree to disagree.


----------



## titustiger27

Scotty C-M said:


> I went out sailing today with a full crew, which included my granddaughter and two second grade classmates. So I left the question up to them: Should we fly the Pirate Flag? All three girls gave the unequivocal answer, YES! So we flew it. We sailed along the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk, and identified the rides. We looked for, and found, sea otters and sea lions. Then we achored out and ate a great lunch. After that we sailed in about 15 knots of wind for a while, before heading downwind towards home. We even went swimming for a bit while at anchor. Now, how could any part of that be anything less than totally cool? I've got to admit that if you think that the flag was lame, you and I will just have to agree to disagree.


that is your problem... thinking fun is fun.. you are suppose to think fun is lame

sounds like a great day

:laugh


----------



## Minnewaska

Scotty C-M said:


> I went out sailing today with a full crew, which included my granddaughter and two second grade classmates. So I left the question up to them: Should we fly the Pirate Flag? All three girls gave the unequivocal answer, YES! So we flew it. We sailed along the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk, and identified the rides. We looked for, and found, sea otters and sea lions. Then we achored out and ate a great lunch. After that we sailed in about 15 knots of wind for a while, before heading downwind towards home. We even went swimming for a bit while at anchor. Now, how could any part of that be anything less than totally cool? I've got to admit that if you think that the flag was lame, you and I will just have to agree to disagree.


For certain, the sea lions, otters, great sail, anchoring and lunch were not dependent on your pennant.

However, if you're trying to say that second grade girls have an affinity for pirate flags, I would have to agree.


----------



## capttb

I will heartily endorse the premise that flying a pirate flag could also mean "There is a second grader onboard".


----------



## blt2ski

Nice to know my customized personal Mr Winston Pirate flag makes me a 2nd grader!.....

marty


----------



## Scotty C-M

It can mean so many things. It's in the eye of the beholder.


----------



## Zarathu

I fly my yacht club flag. It looks a little like a pirate flag...same colors anyhow. No busty scantily clad wenches sailing with me...not sure at my age where I'd get them anyhow.


----------



## twoshoes

Since the question was asked, it must be answered...lame.

Unless you've got small children who are insistent on you flying it. Then it's still lame, but justified.


----------



## titustiger27

blt2ski said:


> Nice to know my customized personal Mr Winston Pirate flag makes me a 2nd grader!.....
> 
> marty


maybe that is why I know it isn't lame

who doesn't want to *live large *like a second grader


----------



## Minnesail

Minnewaska said:


> Sailor's caps. Also lame.
> 
> You know, I've seen pirate flags. I've not actually seen anyone wear a sailors cap, since Thurston Howell.


What?! You haven't been to a Yacht Rock concert?
Can You Sail to It? Then It Must Be 'Yacht Rock'


----------



## Minnewaska

Minnesail said:


> What?! You haven't been to a Yacht Rock concert?......


You got me. Sailors hats are for both Thurston Howell and 1980s soft rock revival fans. I just thought lame was easier to say. Again, unconvincingly feeble. They're trying to make me think they lack strength of character, but haven't succeeded. 

BTW, my wife bought me a baseball cap that says "Captain" on the front, when we took delivery of our current boat. As she handed it to me, she said "I know you'll never wear it, but it a momento of the day". I never have.


----------



## RobGallagher

Minnewaska said:


> You got me. Sailors hats are for both Thurston Howell and 1980s soft rock revival fans. I just thought lame was easier to say. Again, unconvincingly feeble. They're trying to make me think they lack strength of character, but haven't succeeded.
> 
> BTW, my wife bought me a baseball cap that says "Captain" on the front, when we took delivery of our current boat. As she handed it to me, she said "I know you'll never wear it, but it a momento of the day". I never have.


Maybe you should! Maybe we should all meet at The Oar with our cheezie captains hats and limbo. What could possibly go wrong?


----------



## titustiger27

No hats, but if you are Thurston Howell or soft rock revival
flags are lame, but if you are a second grader.. okay?

Rules to live by.. Seems a pirate flag shows you are flexible on the rules... for me that makes it easier than remembering all the rules


----------



## titustiger27

RobGallagher said:


> Maybe you should! Maybe we should all meet at The Oar with our cheezie captains hats and limbo. What could possibly go wrong?


do you dress up for Halloween? Mostly I don't... oddly I will put on a mask during the other parts of the year

But when people go all out or not.. I don't judge... it's what people do, who am I to be the king of fashion... and if you saw me.. you would know I am not the *king* of fashion

More the jester of fashion


----------



## titustiger27

Minnesail said:


> What?! You haven't been to a Yacht Rock concert?
> Can You Sail to It? Then It Must Be 'Yacht Rock'


to be fair... every concert on youtube of this band I have seen.. I had a clear believe alcohol was involved


----------



## GeorgeB

So, young, hot chicks sporting a yachting cap and a pint of beer in a roadie cup are now considered lame? When did this happen? Why didn't I get the memo? Besides, I think that I look quite fetching, decked out in my yachting attire.


----------



## RobGallagher

titustiger27 said:


> do you dress up for Halloween? Mostly I don't... oddly I will put on a mask during the other parts of the year
> 
> But when people go all out or not.. I don't judge... it's what people do, who am I to be the king of fashion... and if you saw me.. you would know I am not the *king* of fashion
> 
> More the jester of fashion


I consider myself a fashion victim. I'm part color blind and part tacky. Suits for work, same color & tie combos over and over again. I have the suits and shirts made in Thailand so the colors all match and the ties picked out for me. When I try a new combo, the girls at work know straight away it was me and lambaste me. At least I know it's coming.

Cargo shorts/t-shirts for summer and levis 560/polo shirts for winter.

Girlfriends try to fashionise me but it just won't stick.

Halloween, if I must dress up, I go as a pirate. Lame as that may be.


----------



## titustiger27

GeorgeB said:


> So, young, hot chicks sporting a yachting cap and a pint of beer in a roadie cup are now considered lame? When did this happen? Why didn't I get the memo? Besides, I think that I look quite fetching, decked out in my yachting attire.


two things

Is that what you really look like... ? I never never get people's avatars

2) you are above memos... we don't send them to you... because you are so fetching

Hot chicks sporting a yachting cap and drunk... never lame... unless it is your daughter and some guy in his 50's is courting her...


----------



## titustiger27

RobGallagher said:


> I consider myself a fashion victim. I'm part color blind and part tacky. Suits for work, same color & tie combos over and over again. I have the suits and shirts made in Thailand so the colors all match and the ties picked out for me. When I try a new combo, the girls at work know straight away it was me and lambaste me. At least I know it's coming.
> 
> Cargo shorts/t-shirts for summer and levis 560/polo shirts for winter.
> 
> Girlfriends try to fashionise me but it just won't stick.
> 
> Halloween, if I must dress up, I go as a pirate. Lame as that may be.


I have the same situation... I didn't know I was colorblind in shades until I was about to go into the air force.. went from being able to do what I want to being someone who marches--- in the Air Force no less

I tend to wear things that don't match, like a plaid shirt and a paisley tie just so I have some 'excitement' for my eyes

I once had a person say to me: "You are deliberately trying to look bad!"

and if someone says, 'nice' I assume they are mocking me


----------



## Capt Len

I just ask myself 'what goes with paint stained blue jeans' and running shoes. Obviously its a matching (or not T shirt) and my ensemble is complete. Never occurred to me others may judge 'lame'


----------



## titustiger27

Capt Len said:


> I just ask myself 'what goes with paint stained blue jeans' and running shoes. Obviously its a matching (or not T shirt) and my ensemble is complete. Never occurred to me others may judge 'lame'


I think I used this before

maybe you should go for lamé


----------



## Daveinet

SO the pirate flag is discussed to ad nauseum, but what about singing sailing shanties? 




I was wondering why that 30 footer we caught up to later on was motor sailing.


----------



## Minnewaska

A shanty is only lame if done sober, after about 1850.

Although, this entire thread is lame, sober or otherwise.


----------



## titustiger27

:captain:

I thought "Shanty" was the word people used for

"Getting drunk and sing badly"


for non sailors it is "Karaoke"

irateraft:


----------



## Capt Len

Thought the inebriated girls in the British pubs were asking for me to take them back to my shanty. No wait, maybe it was shandy. Oh well, can't be right all the time. Forge on.


----------



## titustiger27

Capt Len said:


> Thought the inebriated girls in the British pubs were asking for me to take them back to my shanty. No wait, maybe it was shandy. Oh well, can't be right all the time. Forge on.


I think they wanted you to sing a work song


----------



## RobGallagher

Capt Len said:


> Thought the inebriated girls in the British pubs were asking for me to take them back to my shanty. No wait, maybe it was shandy. Oh well, can't be right all the time. Forge on.


Sigh... and now they take what old women would order on a Sunday afternoon at the pub, put it in a can and market it successfully to the point that grown men think it's cool to water down beer with sprite.

I slap my forehead and fly my pirate flag at half mast to celebrate the passing of mankind.


----------



## XSrcing

The only acceptable mixer with beer is beer.


----------



## Minnewaska

My wife hates beer. Suddenly UFO mixes beer with grapefruit juice, which they call the Big Squeeze, and she can't get enough. You tell her she's lame, if you want. She can be a mean drunk.


----------



## therapy23

Minnewaska said:


> My wife hates beer. Suddenly UFO mixes beer with grapefruit juice, which they call the Big Squeeze, and she can't get enough. You tell her she's lame, if you want. She can be a mean drunk.


AACCKKK!
Foul........throw a flag on that.

And in case everybody doesn't know...
A yellow foul flag since two lames don't make a cool.


----------



## Don L

Minnewaska said:


> My wife hates beer. Suddenly UFO mixes beer with grapefruit juice, which they call the Big Squeeze, and she can't get enough. You tell her she's lame, if you want. She can be a mean drunk.


For some reason if you mix fruit type stuff into it women will almost drink anything.

I'm going to say that's not lame; unless they fly a pirate flag while doing it!


----------



## Zarathu

At least flying a pirate flag is not illegal. *It is illegal to fly a bra on a flag pole*. And the Coast Guard will call. Don't ask me how I know this.


----------



## therapy23

Zarathu said:


> At least flying a pirate flag is not illegal. *It is illegal to fly a bra on a flag pole*. And the Coast Guard will call. Don't ask me how I know this.


The whole story (with pictures) or it _didn't _happen.


----------



## XSrcing

How do they tell the difference between a bikini top and a bra?


----------



## titustiger27

XSrcing said:


> How do they tell the difference between a bikini top and a bra?


could someone* answer this???*

I have been out of circulation for so long. I don't know
:cut_out_animated_em


----------



## Capt Len

More common and easier to fly a Bikini top in light summer breeze.Later in the season the bra is the more numerous wild life. Either way , it's method of keeping score,Makes a statement in the marina, sort of like ringing the church bell (Alice's Restaurant) Not lame.


----------



## titustiger27

This is one of those laws that is goofier than reality

If that same bra/bikini top is worn to the beach... would the woman (man) wearing it be judged obscene.. if it was really a bra or a bikini

When a woman (ahem man) wears her bikini top as a bra, does it stop being a bathing suit

when I am thrown into a pool wearing a tuxedo.. isn't it now a bathing suit

what if I am stark raving naked, but I wrap myself up in a pirate flag.

am I going on to long?
:eek


----------



## XSrcing

You just sound like you've hit the rum.


----------



## Capt Len

That or a bit titsup


----------



## Zarathu

therapy23 said:


> The whole story (with pictures) or it _didn't _happen.


OK.... it wasn't on a boat. And it happened about 45 years ago in Martha's Vineyard, where my wife was serving as a Governess in one of the Chops(the side where the 1%-ers live). The people she was working for had this big evening party, which got kind of "out of hand" with too much alcohol. And everyone, (not my wife, the governess, since her job was only to watch the children and she was only 19) went out to the beach to continue the party. Anyways, I leave it to your imagination as to what they were doing on the beach that night, except for comments about things you should not do in wet sand.

But the next morning, my wife, at the tender age of 19, received a call from the US Coast Guard, asking her to tell the owners of the house that it was not legal to be flying a BRA on the flag pole, and that they would have to take it down.

So she told them, and I guess they did, or delegated to her to do it. No one "owned up" to the ownership of the BRA.


----------



## titustiger27

XSrcing said:


> You just sound like you've hit the rum.


So much better than a boat accident where someone 
*
hits and rum*


----------



## WindchaserPY23

Okay Zarathu, I'm sure I am not the only one here that is curious about the bra flying. How about panties? Is the coast Guard going to board my ship and confiscate the wife's laundry hanging out to dry? Inquiring minds want to know. ;-)


----------



## titustiger27

Those Pirate Flags are everywhere


----------



## Minnewaska

titustiger27 said:


> Those Pirate Flags are everywhere


First, I don't see the jolly roger, nor a semblance of one.

Second, I do see some dude motioning with his left hand what I picture these flag fliers doing after they raise one. Maybe that's what you meant.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> First, I don't see the jolly roger, nor a semblance of one.
> 
> Second, I do see some dude motioning with his left hand what I picture these flag fliers doing after they raise one. Maybe that's what you meant.


Some people would consider Edward Teach a pirate

I would... but you don't ---> okay..

You also have strange opinions about lame as well

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbeard


----------



## Minnewaska

titustiger27 said:


> Some people would consider Edward Teach a pirate
> 
> I would... but you don't ---> okay..
> 
> You also have strange opinions about lame as well[/FONT]
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbeard


Right, pirate flags became lame just a few years after he died. Sort of the point here. I don't see Blackbeard on your latest flag either.


----------



## titustiger27

o.. interesting.. it's a timing issue

well at least for some :boat :

Perhaps I am repeating myself... but I don't think fun has a season to a time limit.

Some might ask.. when is it okay to have... when is it lame, not I.. I don't have a season


----------



## Zarathu

WindchaserPY23 said:


> Okay Zarathu, I'm sure I am not the only one here that is curious about the bra flying. How about panties? Is the coast Guard going to board my ship and confiscate the wife's laundry hanging out to dry? Inquiring minds want to know. ;-)


Coast Guard will then have to do a safety check, no doubt.


----------



## Minnewaska

titustiger27 said:


> o.. interesting.. it's a timing issue
> 
> well at least for some :boat :
> 
> Perhaps I am repeating myself... but I don't think fun has a season to a time limit.
> 
> Some might ask.. when is it okay to have... when is it lame, not I.. I don't have a season


You have a late season. I'm willing to bet just about anything that you would not have flown one back in Blackbeard's day. You're a lame latecomer.


----------



## titustiger27

:devil:devil


Minnewaska said:


> You have a late season. I'm willing to bet just about anything that you would not have flown one back in Blackbeard's day. You're a lame latecomer.


I would have been dead.. they didn't tolerate fun back then (and apparently even now)


----------



## titustiger27

Maybe Black Beard was a hipster


----------



## Minnesail

titustiger27 said:


> Maybe Black Beard was a hipster


Maybe he was....

Blackbeard


> This Beard was black, which he suffered to grow of an extravagant Length; as to Breadth, it came up to his Eyes; he was accustomed to twist it with Ribbons, in small Tails, after the Manner of our Ramilies Wiggs, and turn them about his Ears


Hipsters


> Hipsters are famous for their beards, carefully crafted to convey the idea of trying too hard to look like they're not trying too hard. Hipsters have already done everything from braiding to sticking flowers in their beard.












I rarely use the smiley icons, but I think this calls for a uke


----------



## WindchaserPY23

Arrrrgh, it be 'ritten in the pirate's code that ye no be makin' fun of a sailor's beard (or lack there of) but in this case the hipster deserves what he be gettin'. 

By the way, this thread is most entertaining.

Captn Ed
s/v Talisman


----------



## titustiger27

I don't believe I have seen a hipster with a fuses in his beard

but that might be an oversight


----------



## RobGallagher

It's an honor to share this one.


----------



## jjackson18b

RobGallagher, That is not PC LOL... Love that Pic.


----------



## titustiger27

How about a little splash of eggnog in my rum

ho ho YO


----------



## SVAuspicious

1246 posts and pirate flags are still lame.


----------



## Bleemus

SVAuspicious said:


> 1246 posts and pirate flags are still lame.


Yes they are.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## titustiger27

1248+ posts attesting to the vitality and non-lameness of pirate flags


----------



## WindchaserPY23

1249 posts and we have by far the best ice breaking conversation starter when meeting new sailing acquaintances.

Yo ho, eh.

Capt Ed


----------



## titustiger27

WindchaserPY23 said:


> 1249 posts and we have by far the best ice breaking conversation starter when meeting new sailing acquaintances.
> 
> Yo ho, eh.
> 
> Capt Ed


hey sailor, do you pirate flag here often?


----------



## oysterman23

The new word for tonight :
Gibbet....
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


----------



## bird song

Yes.


----------



## titustiger27

Is flying dead pirates lame?

or just
ice


----------



## randyrhines

oh my!


----------



## drsutton

Never have so many people made so many comments about such a stupid topic.


----------



## titustiger27

.

yet be so utterly enjoyable 

:devil


----------



## randyrhines

drsutton said:


> Never have so many people made so many comments about such a stupid topic.


I'm so Glad you joined us then, at least our humble opinions are worthy of your thorough review and well, shall we say misguided conclusion. Some of us fly the Jolly Roger and some fly the Pi-rate flag, but you have stood at the base of the mast, grasped the flag halyard and unfolded your best flag of opinion and hoisted for all of us to see, I say You my friend XXXXXXXXXXXX.......lol! Merry Christmas to all!


----------



## norsearayder

Well the boats on the hard & my pirate flag stored somewhere.. In the spring we will run up the flag and sail Maine pirate flag snapping as we run down the lubbers.......but then with close cropped hair,trimed beard and flag stored we shall run south for booty booze&broads...I love it all....peace


----------



## XSrcing

Time flies when you're having rum!


----------



## centerline

yea, its lame. but you can decorate in any style that suits your taste, so if you gotta fly one just to "get your lame on", make it a big one. a small pirate flag is for the pirate wannabe's that have an inferiority complex and feel a small flag might be less noticeable and less lame..... its not! if you feel that you gotta make a statement, make it big and bold... instead of the pirate flag, flying a club burgee in the shrouds, or maybe an american flag from the stern would be better....


----------



## titustiger27

I find that there is an interesting contingent... in this discussion

It's like Yankee fans telling a RedSox fan that they are lame, because they do something (root for Boston) that they disagree with

It is like saying you rooted for the Oracle to win, so you are lame

It is someone expressing an opinion (and that is all it is an opinion) and because you have that opinion... those who don't are lame.

btw, you aren't lame for being wrong


----------



## Minnewaska

titustiger27 said:


> I find that there is an interesting contingent... in this discussion
> 
> It's like Yankee fans telling a RedSox fan that they are lame, because they do something (root for Boston) that they disagree with
> 
> It is like saying you rooted for the Oracle to win, so you are lame
> 
> It is someone expressing an opinion (and that is all it is an opinion) and because you have that opinion... those who don't are lame.
> 
> btw, you aren't lame for being wrong


Totally unrelated. Choosing a sports team to pull for is inherently subjective and indefensible. Root for whoever you like, it's specifically intended to be competitive with all others.

However, being lame is defined as unconvincingly feeble. Feeble meaning, lacking strength of character. By definition, character is in the eye of the beholder, and therefore, requires the judgement of others.

Yes, it's an opinion. All are entitled to one. Most consider flying a pirate flag to be lame. A few don't. That was settled a long time ago. Identifying as being among the few, doesn't negate the opinion of the majority.


----------



## titustiger27

Edited: 
* Choosing a pirate flag to pull for* is inherently subjective and indefensible. Enoy for whatever you like, it's specifically intended to be competitive with all others.

However, being lame is defined as unconvincingly feeble. Feeble meaning, lacking strength of character. By definition, character is in the eye of the beholder, and therefore, requires the judgement of others.



Minnewaska said:


> "Yes, it's an opinion. All are entitled to one. Most consider flying a pirate flag to be lame. A few don't. That was settled a long time ago. Identifying as being among the few, doesn't negate the opinion of the majority."


Long ago.. it was clearly pointed out that basing fact on 'opinion' is wrong.. except for that time in the 70's when it was right.. and of course popular to get your hair permed into a 'fro

Ahh what great memories... the wind in my fro, flying me flag on my sailboat "Exhibit A" ah what great days


----------



## Minnewaska

radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG


This is the orginal question, which you can try to restate as much as you like, but it's been permanently carved in stone.

It asks, "is it considered....." To "consider" is to think about before making a decision.

Everyone has done so. Thought about it. Most decided.... lame.

Nothing can change that conclusion of the majority, which was the OP's interest. It is what it is. It answered the question.


----------



## titustiger27

radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG





Minnewaska said:


> This is the orginal question, which you can try to restate as much as you like, but it's been permanently carved in stone.
> 
> It asks, "is it considered....." To "consider" is to think about before making a decision.
> 
> Everyone has done so. Thought about it. Most decided.... lame.
> 
> Nothing can change that conclusion of the majority, which was the OP's interest. It is what it is. It answered the question.


Hmmm, maybe I mis-read the original post

Did radioguy ask if Minnewaska 'consider' it lame?

1,264 post later and I thought it was an open discussion?

hmmm maybe when the first post was made, there wasn't enough room to chisel 'Minnewaska' in

and there was no room for a footnote of: "what ever Minnewaska says --- that goes for *everyone*

it's lame to assume :devil


----------



## Minnewaska

Minnewaska said:


> ...Nothing can change that conclusion of the majority...


Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I said the "majority", which is demonstrated in the responses to this thread. I didn't say my conclusion. Although, I am in the majority.


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## titustiger27

titustiger27 said:


> Edited:
> * Choosing a pirate flag to pull for* is inherently subjective and indefensible. Enoy for whatever you like, it's specifically intended to be competitive with all others.
> 
> However, being lame is defined as unconvincingly feeble. Feeble meaning, lacking strength of character. By definition, character is in the eye of the beholder, and therefore, requires the judgement of others.
> 
> *Long ago.. it was clearly pointed out that basing fact on 'opinion' is wrong*.. except for that time in the 70's when it was right.. and of course popular to get your hair permed into a 'fro
> 
> Ahh what great memories... the wind in my fro, flying me flag on my sailboat "Exhibit A" ah what great days


majority rules in cases of 'opinion'??

Majority only matters in elections... has no one see where the majority was wrong?

Who counted all the thoughts in the world... _who is going to contact radio guy and see if he wanted a vote... he should have put a poll in his post_


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## centerline

no matter how strong ones opinion is on any given subject, if the opinion is lame, as decided by the majority, then thats what it is.... and as long as the opinion, when put into practice, does not affect anyone else, there really is no harm to the majority if one chooses to hold on to it...

but in this case, when the majority see's a man out enjoying his boat, proudly flying his new pirates flag, the majority can only think,
"there's a newbie over there... you can tell 'cuz of the pirate flag... wonder if he has any idea how lame that looks on a tiny pleasure boat, where the captain undoubtedly has no more idea what it means to be a pirate than they do how to even navigate properly".... 

its all about perception... 

But it is true that a pirate flag can be flown in conjuction with a burgee displying a martini glass aboard an anchored boat.... this is a fair warning.
it means its "party" time aboard this boat and there is stuff going on aboard that may be mutinous, or considered wrong by most people, (remember this, onboard any pirate vessel there can be no such thing as a mutiny, as everyone shares equally in everything, all the time) and you are invited as long as you follow the rules.... of which there are 2, be respectful or walk the plank (leave), and, what happens aboard, STAYS aboard....

so fly the pirate flag at your own risk...


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## titustiger27

So, if I have this right... when pirates flew a Jolly Rogers not as a novelty.. not to show others they weren't wound too tight, but when it was flow to put fear on all other ships at sea -- during 1660s to 1730s if you thought slavery was to stop.. the popular opinion was 'you are lame'

So if we are using the thinking of some here... slavery was okay... because of a populous vote?

*Let me be clear.. I am willing to be lame if someone thinks owning another man/woman is okay... I would go so far that I am willing to be lame in the eyes who want to own another man's thoughts or soul.* And this could be any right that was restricted because at the time it was considered wrong to let that group vote.. own land... or speak his or her mind

That said... I don't see an overwhelming majority.. in fact I don't even see a vote.. I see a sense of bullying where some want to control the thoughts of what some like to do.. on their on, on their own boat.. by telling people they are lame.... causing some to not say anything because of said bullying.

So be it

Fortunately many of us live in America.. the land of the free, where we have a right to pursue happiness and fly a pirate flag... I will not let the thought police to hamper my fun.. or the rights of all men and women.

Happy New Years buckos


​


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## Scotty C-M

My opinion is that lame is a shallowness of action and/or spirit. Some examples: Hate speech, Bullying, Lying, Stealing, etc.

Flying a silly novelty flag is not anywhere near that standard. It's just a personal preference. Do you laugh at a person's choice of clothing? How about their hair style or accent? Do you think that the "nerds" (or put in any other subcultural reference) are lame? If so, you are entitled to be judgmental in that way, but that is what it is. Not a fact, just an opinion. Judgmental. It reminds me of a bunch of people that in high school considered themselves cool, and anyone different was not. Or perhaps you have to make yourself cool now by putting down other people. To think that you might consider yourself more cool than a person who flies a pirate flag is kind of sad. To think that you might assume anything about his experience or abilities is hubris.

Lame is not a popularity contest. I'll reserve that label for people who do something to hurt others.


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## centerline

titustiger27 said:


> So if we are using the thinking of some here... slavery was okay... because of a populous vote?
> 
> I don't see an overwhelming majority.. in fact I don't even see a vote.. I see a sense of bullying where some want to control the thoughts of what some like to do.. on their on, on their own boat.. by telling people they are lame.... causing some to not say anything because of said bullying.




pull your head out of the sand.... times change, attitudes change, politics change, perceptions change and the beliefs of whole societies change.... 
what was acceptable to the people of the past, was absolutely acceptable to the _majority_ of them , but now that many years have gone by, times have changed and so have people and their opinions, and some of what was once considered acceptable, is no longer accepted... no matter if it we are talking about slavery or pirates...

but, as for the pirate flag, very few pirates in history flew a flag, and those that did, it had more of a purpose to show brotherhood, so that one pirate ship did not wastefully pursue another one.... when the colors were shown, the merchant vessels had some worry and something to fear, but other pirates hoisted in return to show they were on the account also.

and no, I dont see a vote either, but when the question is put to a crowd of people, and you get many responses, and yet one response is much more common than another, its considered "the majority".... how can it be viewed otherwise?... unless we're talking electoral votes:laugh

and bullying???... because people opinons differ?... because the majority does not agree with you?... its only a friendly discussion where people should have the right to speak their beliefs/opinions, even if others dont agree with them. it was a question asked, and answered... its difficult for me to see how bullying can even exist in that concept.

this is an open forum for boaters with related thoughts, can discuss their opinions and ideas... it wasnt created as a place where the meek and opinionless people can come and get support for only what they believe, because they are afraid to speak about them in a public environment.... 
and because this is the internet, the meek and opinionless CAN be anybody they want to be here.. they can be bold and pretend to have opinions if they want to... they can meet everyone on equal terms and believe as they want to and speak out...
hopefully you can see that this has nothing to do bullying, or intending to, or causing harm, but its about just being individuals, and having ones owns beliefs and convictions...which is good.


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## titustiger27

centerline said:


> pull your head out of the sand.... times change, attitudes change, politics change, perceptions change and the beliefs of whole societies change....
> what was acceptable to the people of the past, was absolutely acceptable to the _majority_ of them , but now that many years have gone by, times have changed and so have people and their opinions, and some of what was once considered acceptable, is no longer accepted... no matter if it we are talking about slavery or pirates...
> 
> but, as for the pirate flag, very few pirates in history flew a flag, and those that did, it had more of a purpose to show brotherhood, so that one pirate ship did not wastefully pursue another one.... when the colors were shown, the merchant vessels had some worry and something to fear, but other pirates hoisted in return to show they were on the account also.
> 
> and no, I see a vote either, but when the question is put to a crowd of people, and you get many responses, and yet one response is much more common than another, its considered "the majority".... how can it be viewed otherwise?... unless we're talking electoral votes:laugh
> 
> and bullying???... because people opinons differ?... because the majority does not agree with you?... its only a friendly discussion where people should have the right to speak their beliefs/opinions, even if others dont agree with them. it was a question asked, and answered... its difficult for me to see how bullying can even exist in that concept.
> 
> this is an open forum for boaters with related thoughts, can discuss their opinions and ideas... it wasnt created as a place where the meek and opinionless people can come and get support for only what they believe, because they are afraid to speak about them in a public environment....
> and because this is the internet, the meek and opinionless CAN be anybody they want to be here.. they can be bold and pretend to have opinions if they want to... they can meet everyone on equal terms and believe as they want to and speak out...
> hopefully you can see that this has nothing to do bullying, or intending to, or causing harm, but its about just being individuals, and having ones owns beliefs and convictions...which is good.


sand?

You made my point for me... thanks you. Opinions change.. which shows that opinions are wrong even when they are in a majority

People who have different opinions and say so, are not bullying anyone.. telling people their opinions are lame is a different story.

I am not sure why you go to forums, but I don't go to be bullied *be clear, I am joking about that* people do not come to forums to have arguments to be called names and told they don't know what they are talking about.. Maybe you do, I don't and I would guess a lot of folks are like myself and don't want to get into nasty arguments (I am talking in general, not this thread)

I am not sure if the internet was created for forums, I am pretty sure the Arpanet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet) was created to share information and not so much for insults. I believe

There is a difference between 'friendly' people have a discussion.. To express thoughts and opinions.. and clearly telling people their head is in the sand... which I am sure you meant in a friendly way.

People are often wrong, I am often wrong.. and opinions can be wrong...


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## Minnewaska

titustiger27 said:


> So, if I have this right... when pirates flew a Jolly Rogers not as a novelty.. not to show others they weren't wound too tight, but when it was flow to put fear on all other ships at sea -- during 1660s to 1730s if you thought slavery was to stop.. the popular opinion was 'you are lame'
> 
> So if we are using the thinking of some here... slavery was okay... because of a populous vote?
> 
> *Let me be clear.. I am willing to be lame if someone thinks owning another man/woman is okay... I would go so far that I am willing to be lame in the eyes who want to own another man's thoughts or soul.* And this could be any right that was restricted because at the time it was considered wrong to let that group vote.. own land... or speak his or her mind
> 
> That said... I don't see an overwhelming majority.. in fact I don't even see a vote.. I see a sense of bullying where some want to control the thoughts of what some like to do.. on their on, on their own boat.. by telling people they are lame.... causing some to not say anything because of said bullying.
> 
> So be it
> 
> Fortunately many of us live in America.. the land of the free, where we have a right to pursue happiness and fly a pirate flag... I will not let the thought police to hamper my fun.. or the rights of all men and women.
> 
> Happy New Years buckos
> 
> 
> ​


I don't think a reference to slavery is fun, funny or in any way relevant to this banter over a flag. You can't equate a violation of human rights to people rolling their eyes over displaying a flag. If that's what's it's going to devolve to, I'm out.


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## RobGallagher

I have to agree with Mennewaska. WTF has this to do with slavery or anything even remotely historic. It's about flying a freeking flag that lends us to our childhood dreams of ships and swords and eye patches and funny accents.

No one wants to rape pillage, enslave, torture, or kill. It's just an excuse to raise a flag that, instead of instilling dread in weary travelers, says "dinghy on over for a mojito".
,
Really, at times I wonder if the world has gone mad. Who f u k c ing cares?


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## centerline

titustiger27 said:


> sand?
> 
> You made my point for me... thanks you. Opinions change.. which shows that opinions are wrong even when they are in a majority
> 
> People who have different opinions and say so, are not bullying anyone.. telling people their opinions are lame is a different story.
> 
> I am not sure why you go to forums, but I don't go to be bullied *be clear, I am joking about that* people do not come to forums to have arguments to be called names and told they don't know what they are talking about.. Maybe you do, I don't and I would guess a lot of folks are like myself and don't want to get into nasty arguments (I am talking in general, not this thread)
> 
> I am not sure if the internet was created for forums, I am pretty sure the Arpanet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet) was created to share information and not so much for insults. I believe
> 
> There is a difference between 'friendly' people have a discussion.. To express thoughts and opinions.. and clearly telling people their head is in the sand... which I am sure you meant in a friendly way.
> 
> People are often wrong, I am often wrong.. and opinions can be wrong...


 pull your head out of the sand.... come into the light... wake up and smell the coffee, or the roses.... basically, you should realize that what you are trying to use as comparisons are not relevent to the cause here, and skewed in general...

and in reply to the comments in your last post about "telling people their opinions are lame, is bullying"... 
ARE YOU FREAKING BLIND???. have you READ the title of the post???... thats what the OP is ASKING... and the majority of the responders said yes ITS LAME... (oops!.. that may have been a bit loud, but wasnt meant as bullying. but you really do need to read the post title)

so with this, I must respectfully say that its my opinion that the argument you have presented is as lame as flying a pirate flag, and shouldnt be used in an attempt to change someones mind into believing this thread and its content, is a bullying tactic....:laugh:laugh


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## Minnesail

I just finished reading 




Some pirates really did fly the Jolly Roger, others used similar designs. The book covered the blurry lines between privateers and pirates and how we came to romanticize them, from The Pirates of Penzance 140 years ago to the Pirates of the Caribbean today. Good book, fun read.

Oh, and fly whatever flag you like


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## SVAuspicious

titustiger27 said:


> So, if I have this right... when pirates flew a Jolly Rogers not as a novelty.. not to show others they weren't wound too tight, but when it was flow to put fear on all other ships at sea -- during 1660s to 1730s if you thought slavery was to stop.. the popular opinion was 'you are lame'
> 
> So if we are using the thinking of some here... slavery was okay... because of a populous vote?


You do realize that most pirates were slavers also, right?



titustiger27 said:


> Fortunately many of us live in America.. the land of the free, where we have a right to pursue happiness and fly a pirate flag... I will not let the thought police to hamper my fun.. or the rights of all men and women.


People in the United States have the right to do all kinds of things, including lame things.

Remember the Quest.


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## centerline

SVAuspicious said:


> You do realize that most pirates were slavers also, right?


 just to clarify what the history books tell us...

none of us were actually there so we dont really know for sure, but according to the historians that take an interest in all things pirate, pirates did not deal in slavery directly, but would sell a cargo that was captured, regardless of what it was...

and pirates sold their cargos almost exclusively on the black market or to smugglers, as they had very little room to negotiate due to their "status" as pirates.... the buyers of the cargo, and the end sellers of it were the actual people involved in the "trade"... 
the pirates had nothing to do whatsoever with what was on the ship, they only intercepted it and changed its intended destination.


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## Bleemus

centerline said:


> just to clarify what the history books tell us...
> 
> none of us were actually there so we dont really know for sure, but according to the historians that take an interest in all things pirate, pirates did not deal in slavery directly, but would sell a cargo that was captured, regardless of what it was...
> 
> and pirates sold their cargos almost exclusively on the black market or to smugglers, as they had very little room to negotiate due to their "status" as pirates.... the buyers of the cargo, and the end sellers of it were the actual people involved in the "trade"...
> 
> the pirates had nothing to do whatsoever with what was on the ship, they only intercepted it and changed its intended destination.


But they didn't free the slaves.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## centerline

Bleemus said:


> But they didn't free the slaves.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 correct... no more than they would have dumped any other cargo. they were not in the business of returning the cargo to where it was aquired, nor did they care how it got used after it was unloaded. it was only another cargo that they randomly took with the obvious intent of exchanging it for money/supplies...


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## titustiger27

I recommend reading "Under the Black Flag"

Lots of interesting things about pirates.. to some extent sailors on pirate ships *were* slaves. Not Africans, but often men from captured ships were given a choice: be a pirate or death.

The thing I take from the book is the fact that -- that was then this is now. I don't know of many who are appalled by a pirate flag because their family was decimated by pirates.. For the most part it has taken on a cartoon (and fun) nature... perhaps that is wrong.

I don't believe people who like to fly a pirate think they are striking fear into others; I don't think people on boats with a jolly rogers can be summed up with one word (No more than posters on a sailing forum could be lumped together as one thing); Just as I don't believe the logo of the Tampa Bay Football team scares the other teams more than the Lion on the Detroit's team


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## Minnewaska

You must be having a tough time with what others think, as you keep trying to twist it to somehow please yourself. 

No one has said what you should or shouldn't do, but you try to say they are.

No one has told you not to have fun any way you like, but you try to say they are.

No one has told you what to think, but you try to say they are. (and ironically try to tell them not to think they way they do)

Certainly, no one in their right mind would equate an eye roll over a lame cartoon flag as having any relation to the acceptance of slavery. That was inappropriate and, frankly, I would have expected a retraction or apology. Think there are any members here that are actual descendants of slaves who think that quibble is the same as yachtsman disputing a pennant? 

You simply take exception that many think flying a pirate flag is lame. You can do whatever you like and that's simply what most people will think about it, but no one is going to make you take it down. Get over it. It's lame. Flaunt your lame flag all you like, but own it. Stop trying to redefine why others feel that way.


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## titustiger27

Nah.. if I had a tough time with what anyone thought...

well I will let the people who know what I am thinking post for me.

Which some will do even after I actually say what I think.

_They're tryin' to drink all the punches_

:captain:


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## titustiger27

Lame Lego© pirate flag?


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## jackdaw

radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG


Depends on who you are trying to impress.


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## WindchaserPY23

I have to admit, for a seemingly harmless question this thread has taken on a life of it's own. The original post was back in 2010 for heaven sakes, and 1286 responses to date.
Pepsi or Coke, there will never be a right answer.
All I have to say on the matter is: "To each, his/her/their own."


Capt Ed
s/v Talisman


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## Scotty C-M

Coke. Pepsi is lame. :devil


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## titustiger27

Water much healthier than soda


and it is a sailing forum after all...



:cut_out_animated_em


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## Minnewaska

WindchaserPY23 said:


> ....
> All I have to say on the matter is: "To each, his/her/their own.".....


That's never been in dispute.

The original post asked what others think. Human beings have an opinion. Most think flying a pirate flag is lame, some do not. It's no different or more contemptible than having different taste in a particular color hull. None say you can't fly one, nor was that asked. Only those that don't like the answer get defensive.

Lame.


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## RobGallagher

One simple truth is that if you don't find pirate flags lame you have a sense one humor.

Another simple truth is that if you find a pirate flag lame you also believe in the one true god who is Glenn Beck and sob with him.

Coke, and I really have no idea why. I don't often drink soda and for the life of me I can't imagine the taste difference in either one without drinking them side by side. If I buy soda for a party or to stash on the boat for guests, I always, always, buy Coke. Why do I buy Coke? It has to be the ads.

I don't even remember any Coke ads, but I would like to buy the world Coke

....now get that song out of your head, go ahead and try. It will be with you all friggen night. I feel like I accomplished something.


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## 2Gringos

I find pirate flags incredibly lame. I don't see the appeal. What kind of statement are they supposed to be representing, specifically? That the boat is full of thieves and criminals and they're dumb enough to advertise the fact?

or that the people on the boat are real serious Disney fans and they want everyone to know it, maybe hoping to attract other serious Disney fans?

Pirate flags are kind of up there with Barny the purple dinosaur or Mattel Power Rangers or Mutant Turtle Teenagers or Kermit the Frog type icons. What do they symbolize? 

If you see a pirate flag flying, what does that say to you? I'd be interested to know, actually.


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## Scotty C-M

Here's my take on what it says to me: That the person flying the flag enjoys the fun of childhood. 

I spend a lot of time with my grandchildren. They love that (Jake the Pirate, Barney, Power Rangers, Turtles and frogs) stuff. As a result, so do I. So if you want to call that lame, it kind of surprises me. I'll tell you why… lame means not to move correctly. To do somthing wrong. Childlike actions are just kd stuff, no harm in it. Wrong "movement" is intentional cruelty. Bullying, criminal actions, name calling, that stuff is lame. Like the bumper sticker says, "Mean people suck". You are welcome to think that adults acting like a child is lame. It seems a bit harsh to me, but not a big deal. Certainly in some circumstances acting like a child is innapropropriate - like during a serious adult activity. But, sailing is just a recreational activity. A bit of childness dosen't hurt. The Dali Lama says acting like a child is an important part of an adult's life. If it's good enough for the Dali Lama, it's good enough for me. I wonder if the Dali Lama flys a pirate flag? 

it's funny that this thread keeps going. Enjoy your day.


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## Minnewaska

Scotty C-M said:


> .....lame means not to move correctly......


The word lame indeed can be used to describe the inability to walk normally.

However, it also means unconvincingly feeble, which is the proper definition context for this thread. Not a walking disability, nor a metaphor of it.

I suspect those who are offended by the fact that most people find it lame, don't really know what the term means and take it more dramatically than defined.

I certainly can't see how one is mean for holding an opinion. My neighbor has a pirate flag (no little kids aboard). I think it's lame. I don't confront him over it. Where's the mean part?


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## Scotty C-M

Minnie, I've seen you comments on this thread. While I respect your opinion, I do not share it. I don't know about others, but I am aware of the definition. The feebleness of the secondary meaning comes from the "feebleness" of movement in the first definition. Not an importiant distinction to me. I have always been interested in the etymology of words. Lame has a negative connotation in the context of this discussion.

You assert that most people find it lame. Without a more accurate analysis, I might think that many people think it's lame. Many do not.

So why might people think it's mean to have the opinion that it is lame? I think it may be because it is judgmental and negative. It also implies superiority. In children we know that such thinking can easily lead to social stratification and bullying. In adults it may be (sometimes) more subtle, but it still does exist. You say that you take no actions on your judgment, but we humans are remarkably sensitive to the subtle cues of status and acceptance - or the lack of it. Look at it this way, if you walked up to someone and told them that they (or their boat) were lame, do you think that it would end well?

So is it "wrong" to decide that it is lame to fly a pirate flag? It seems to me that I am comfortable making the judgement as to whether it is lame for me to fly it, but I'm not comfortable making that judgement in regards to the actions of others. It's not a big deal to me, but you asked, so I thought I'd try to express my opinion. Hey, I'm babysitting 4 grandchildren (ages 7, 4, 3 and 1) and had a bit of time to play on the computer while they are running around. Opps, time to go!!


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## Bleemus

RobGallagher said:


> One simple truth is that if you don't find pirate flags lame you have a sense one humor.
> 
> Another simple truth is that if you find a pirate flag lame you also believe in the one true god who is Glenn Beck and sob with him.
> 
> Coke, and I really have no idea why. I don't often drink soda and for the life of me I can't imagine the taste difference in either one without drinking them side by side. If I buy soda for a party or to stash on the boat for guests, I always, always, buy Coke. Why do I buy Coke? It has to be the ads.
> 
> I don't even remember any Coke ads, but I would like to buy the world Coke
> 
> ....now get that song out of your head, go ahead and try. It will be with you all friggen night. I feel like I accomplished something.


Huh? I find pirate flags lame and think Glen Beck is an idiot. Shall I post stories of pirates burning ships full of slaves? Raping villages of innocent children? Why do we idolize these people?

Pirate flag is the new Confederate flag for the uneducated.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Minnewaska

Scotty C-M said:


> ....I think it may be because it is judgmental and negative. It also implies superiority.
> 
> but I'm not comfortable making that judgement in regards to the actions of others.....


As I've said many times in this thread, I find this topic to mostly be in jest (except for when those that find it lame were accused of having an affinity to slavery). I've given my honest answer to the original question and stand by it. However, I find it most funny to see how those that don't find the flag to be lame (typically arguing that those in the affirmative are being judgmental or mean or have no sense of humor) are, in fact, judging others themselves.

Unless missing one's frontal lobe, human beings judge. We judge the criminal, the immoral, the political. We judge etiquette and social norms. You've judged what you think my opinion on this topic means. That's okay. People judge.

I think the ultimate expression of superiority is to not care what others think about something as trivial as flying a flag and I respect that position. However, this thread was started with the express inquiry into what others think, therefore, it was answered.


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## Don L

Lame


stop wasting so many of your daily word allowance


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## MarkofSeaLife

Guy parks badly next to me yesterday.

Pirate flag.

Clear indication the guy can't sail.

Why advertise your inabilities?


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## 2Gringos

Wait a minute. We're talking specifically about sailors flying pirate flags, right? Not grandchildren flying pirate flags. Not the Dali Lama flying pirate flags over his monastery. Interest approach to try to use analogies to non related things in a very straightforward argument. This is how the PC liberals like to do things. How lame.

The fact that someone has four grandchildren and so is presently encircled by products manufactured by Mattel and now thinks Barney is cute doesn't change the fact that for a full grown man to fly a pirate flag will strike many other grown men as lame. I don't agree that lame is the same thing as childish behavior Lame is behaving like a dweeb. Childish is behaving in an immature manner. I don't much appreciate childish behavior by people in charge of large boats operating in my vicinity, but I don't consider the actions of children to be "lame". The actions of children are by definition childish. The childish actions of a mature adult are lame, among other things.. and If the Dali Lama wants to pick boogers at the dinner table and say it's okay because he likes childish behavior, well it's certainly his right to do so. He doesn't define any part of my life or attitudes. And I wasn't aware that he is a sailor flying a pirate flag, so what does Tibet have to do with it in any case? More attempted misdirection. This is classic Hillary Clinton.

There's nothing "wrong" with being lame. It's everyones right to be lame, if that's the way they want to be perceived. But for someone who is doing something lame to insist that those who find their behavior lame just need to change their definition of lame is.....well......lame.

Teaching grandchildren that pirates are cute cuddly cartoon characters that just happen to carry swords and pistols is something other than lame. Hey, lets put a happy face on John Wayne Gacy and give him a saturday morning cartoon show and his own theme song. Why not? Is he any worse that a pirate?


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## 2Gringos

Found some good bedtime reading for children who think pirates are cute:

http://www.noonsite.com/Countries/V...e-attack-first-person-report-from-sy-explorer

Real-Life Pirates of the Caribbean Attack! The World's Largest Message-In-The-Bottle Robbed... -- LAS ROQUES, Venezuela, August 29, 2013 /PRNewswire/ --

Pirate Attacks - How Pirates Work | HowStuffWorks
I like that one for kids. It explains how pirates run up the Jolly Roger to give their victims the opportunity to surrender before being attacked.


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## SVAuspicious

My observation of this thread is that those who consider flying a pirate flag to be lame say so without rancor and move on with their lives. Those who object to that designation seem to get defensive, loud, and lash out at those who disagree. There is a big difference in behavior between those who state their opinion and those who take offense at anyone who does not agree with them.



2Gringos said:


> If you see a pirate flag flying, what does that say to you? I'd be interested to know, actually.


In my experience boats flying a pirate flag are more likely to display poor etiquette in boat handling and anchoring and crew are likely to be loud and otherwise disruptive including at inappropriate hours. For entertainment value Google for the YouTube video by Rick Moore on "Credit Card Captains" and consider the flags they are flying. One data point does not lead to a good conclusion but it is, if somewhat extreme, representative of my experience with boats flying pirate flags.

Lame.



Scotty C-M said:


> The Dali Lama says acting like a child is an important part of an adult's life. If it's good enough for the Dali Lama, it's good enough for me. I wonder if the Dali Lama flys a pirate flag?


Not that I have ever seen, nor can I find the quote you attribute to him. I have not met the Dalai Lama, although my parents have. I have met the Karmapa and count Tai Situ Rinpoche and Lama (now Rinpoche) Norla as friends. My sister is Lama Jamdron. I can say with some assurance that practicing Buddhists, especially Tibetan Buddhists, do not think kindly of piracy. It is also worth noting that the Dalai Lama in his current life is on record as using the term "acting like children" with respect to nation states who act poorly.

The upshot is that entertaining your grandchildren is no excuse for not raising them to understand that piracy was and is an evil scourge. That does not need to conflict with enjoying and even learning from fiction ranging from "Pirates of the Caribbean" to "Huckleberry Finn."

_Remember the Quest_


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## RobGallagher

Viking were not nice to their victims either. Next you will tell me that when I sail sporting my horned Viking helmet that's lame as well. Jeesh.


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## Don L

RobGallagher said:


> Viking were not nice to their victims either. Next you will tell me that when I sail sporting my horned Viking helmet that's lame as well. Jeesh.


Well it depends on whether you carry an axe to go along with the helmet now doesn't it?


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## titustiger27

I get, if you look at pirates, vikings, Christopher Columbus, Captain James Cook, etc with a critical eye, then one could say that a pirate flag is pure evil... but in that thinking, you would have change the name of Columbus, OH to Buckeye, OH.

I think you have to consider intent and consequence.

I don't think that it is the intent of those (and me) that like Pirate Flags to glorify the evil things of real pirates. I don't think Tampa Bay football fans or Pittsburgh baseball fans do either.

Nor would I and perhaps most, want to fly a flag if the action hurt people because their family lost a fortune to pirates.. or all of their decedents were killed by pirates (which would kind of make it hard for them to be alive).

But even if those things were true... it is out of the topic of if it is lame.

If you want to put a 'accurate spin' on everything, then don't buy diamonds or products made by slave labor. Maybe it is wrong to have children believe pirate flags are fun, to believe santa is real, that if they work really hard they will automatically succeed. Squash all the dreams at an early !!


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## titustiger27

Don0190 said:


> Well it depends on whether you carry an axe to go along with the helmet now doesn't it?


Body Wash,,,?


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## 2Gringos

Pirate flags are fun? Really? Seems they were not fun until Disney started seeing them as a way to make money. 

Wonder if we can get Disney to make some cute cartoons out of the swastika and now the confederate battle flag, too? Seems to be the way to make it acceptable.

If pirates were so all-fired cute, how come they hung them when they caught them? I don't recall that particular Disney cartoon, but I'm sure if we could get Capt. Jack Sparrow and some of his crew to hang by the neck until dead for murdering innocent people and robbing them, it would make for some uproarious comedy. What could they do with those scenes when the spine doesn't break and they kick and squirm and their tongues protrude from their mouths and turn blue as their bowels and bladder let go. What fun that would be in a cartoon! Great splashes of body fluids draining from the dying criminals. Gosh, makes me want to glorify them, too. almost.


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## Don L

titustiger27 said:


> Body Wash,,,?


sometimes things need to be all spelled out for people:

"An axe (in American English also spelled ax) is an implement that has been used for millennia to shape, split and cut wood; to harvest timber; as a weapon; and as a ceremonial or heraldic symbol. The axe has many forms and specialised uses but generally consists of an axe head with a handle, or helve"

But if your axe is a body spray to go along with your Viking helmet it definitely falls into the Lame world and flying a pirate flag with it would be an acceptable part of it.


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## SVAuspicious

titustiger27 said:


> I get, if you look at pirates, vikings, Christopher Columbus, Captain James Cook, etc with a critical eye, then one could say that a pirate flag is pure evil... but in that thinking, you would have change the name of Columbus, OH to Buckeye, OH.


There are now more people of Norwegian extraction in Minnesota than in Norway. Neither is particularly proud of their history of rampaging vikings, although they are rightly proud of the exploration and seamanship of those same people.

Christopher Columbus and Captain Cook are similar historical figures and should be considered in the context of their time. Still neither would be considered good dinner company today.

You can't change history.

Piracy on the other hand continues to this date and not only on Wall Street. While international enforcement has reduced the risk near the Horn of Africa it continues to the North and East of that area and along the Caribbean coasts of South and Central America. Much of Southeast Asia continues to suffer from piracy.

You need not look into the distant past to find examples of terrible actions by pirates. The death of the owners and their guests on S/V Quest is only the most well known of recent events.

Which leads me to the conclusion that people who fly pirate flags simply don't think at all about the message they send to those who do pay attention to world events.

You and everyone else have every right to fly a pirate flag and to do all manner of other lame things. Others like me who consider it to be lame have every right to judge you and treat you accordingly. You demonstrate that you don't care about the people who suffered and died at the hands of pirates, and who suffer and die today. I agree with the analogy offered above with Nazi flag. Flying one of those would be similarly lame.

But those who raise their voices in support of "it's all in fun" don't want to think about those realities. They have blindly selected the answer they want to be true and care not for inconvenient truths.


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## Minnewaska

RobGallagher said:


> Viking were not nice to their victims either. Next you will tell me that when I sail sporting my horned Viking helmet that's lame as well. Jeesh.


Except, Vikings never wore helmets with horns, it's a myth. That image was invented in the Opera. So those just mean you are a fan of the Opera. Opera to some is lame. I'm on the fence with that one.


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## titustiger27

SVAuspicious said:


> There are now more people of Norwegian extraction in Minnesota than in Norway. Neither is particularly proud of their history of rampaging vikings, although they are rightly proud of the exploration and seamanship of those same people.
> 
> Christopher Columbus and Captain Cook are similar historical figures and should be considered in the context of their time. Still neither would be considered good dinner company today.
> 
> You can't change history.
> 
> Piracy on the other hand continues to this date and not only on Wall Street. While international enforcement has reduced the risk near the Horn of Africa it continues to the North and East of that area and along the Caribbean coasts of South and Central America. Much of Southeast Asia continues to suffer from piracy.
> 
> You need not look into the distant past to find examples of terrible actions by pirates. The death of the owners and their guests on S/V Quest is only the most well known of recent events.
> 
> Which leads me to the conclusion that people who fly pirate flags simply don't think at all about the message they send to those who do pay attention to world events.
> 
> You and everyone else have every right to fly a pirate flag and to do all manner of other lame things. Others like me who consider it to be lame have every right to judge you and treat you accordingly. You demonstrate that you don't care about the people who suffered and died at the hands of pirates, and who suffer and die today. I agree with the analogy offered above with Nazi flag. Flying one of those would be similarly lame.
> 
> But those who raise their voices in support of "it's all in fun" don't want to think about those realities. They have blindly selected the answer they want to be true and care not for inconvenient truths.


Once you give someone a pass for the product or context of their times... you are on a slippery slope. If you read about Captain Cook, you will know that some of the things he and his men did, even he considered them to be wrong.

Then you might have to start giving people you don't select as allowed to have a pass... including people who do evil things in the last year, but would say, 'that is the environment I grew up in."

but speaking of context.. all the things you say about history and the flag, seems to be out of the context of 'lame,' and more in the framework of you are disgusted by...

Although I agree piracy continues to this day: 1) I don't think they fly the jolly rogers; nor 2) do I think the Tampa Bay Buccaneers or many others who fly a novelty pirate flag do so in support of modern day pirates.

Just as I and everyone else have the right to fly a pirate flag, you have the right to judge people.

And just as I have blindly selected my answer

You have astutely responded to the parts of my post that gives you some footing on your opinion.. which I am guessing, but don't know, has an _intent and consequence_

I will apologize to you that if I have offended your sensibilities by thinking it is not lame to fly a Jolly Rogers, I might be over assessing your words, but you seem sincerely hurt that people would select a flag that doesn't have racial overtones and have equated it to such. Sorry.

I understand how that must feel.. if you read a couple of my posts about this, people seemed to be angered when I compared evil deeds that were accepted in a context, but were still evil, and seem abhorrent when looked at through the modern day lens


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## Daveinet

Comparing a pirate flag to a Swastika is non-sense. The swastika still has symbolic meaning today, and is still used in some circles. a pirate flag does not carry the same depth of meaning, as no current pirate fly the jolly roger. The jolly roger has a greater association with Disney than with current piracy.


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## RobGallagher

Good post Dave.

The "Pirate Flags" mean nothing beyond a simple 'even if I don't know you, swing by and introduce yourself, I'm bound to offer you a cold one'.

Everyone should have a pretty clear understanding that when you pull into an anchorage you are not going to fire cannons, pillage, or anything else that might risk spilling your cocktail. The silly "SURRENDER THE BOOTY" or "PREPARE TO BE BOARDED" or "TIME FLIES WHEN YOU ARE HAVING RUM" have absolutely nothing to do with piracy, historical, modern, or in your imagination. It's a flipping joke.

You want to preach history based on West Marine end of isle nylon junk marketed to make one giggle? Really history? Slave ships have sailed under the US Ensign. Some pirates/privateers operated with impunity from multiple governments. Navy recruiters lied to get young men sign themselves into indentured servitude, it went on for hundreds of years and has nothing to do with anything on this thread.

You want to say they are lame because they are immature or a bad investment or you hope Walt Disney's frozen head cracks, fine. The fact that you read a book and now get to educate the masses on how pirates did bad things to their fellow man and assume those who buy cheap nylon flags are ignorant or slept through world history is just plain silly.

Anyone who thinks that flying a pirate flag is making some sort of political or historical statement is, well, is lame. Lame, lame, lame.


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## RobGallagher

SVAuspicious said:


> There are now more people of Norwegian extraction in Minnesota than in Norway. Neither is particularly proud of their history of rampaging vikings, although they are rightly proud of the exploration and seamanship of those same people.
> 
> Christopher Columbus and Captain Cook are similar historical figures and should be considered in the context of their time. Still neither would be considered good dinner company today.
> 
> You can't change history.
> 
> Piracy on the other hand continues to this date and not only on Wall Street. While international enforcement has reduced the risk near the Horn of Africa it continues to the North and East of that area and along the Caribbean coasts of South and Central America. Much of Southeast Asia continues to suffer from piracy.
> 
> You need not look into the distant past to find examples of terrible actions by pirates. The death of the owners and their guests on S/V Quest is only the most well known of recent events.
> 
> Which leads me to the conclusion that people who fly pirate flags simply don't think at all about the message they send to those who do pay attention to world events.
> 
> You and everyone else have every right to fly a pirate flag and to do all manner of other lame things. Others like me who consider it to be lame have every right to judge you and treat you accordingly. You demonstrate that you don't care about the people who suffered and died at the hands of pirates, and who suffer and die today. I agree with the analogy offered above with Nazi flag. Flying one of those would be similarly lame.
> 
> But those who raise their voices in support of "it's all in fun" don't want to think about those realities. They have blindly selected the answer they want to be true and care not for inconvenient truths.


When you played cops and robbers as a kid, you where always the cop. Admit it. Sitting there making the other kids listen to the miranda speech. Not shooting back at them with your cap gun. Taking them all in alive. Letting them wait for their lawyer before questioning them. Could anyone just fake a gut shot and go in for dinner on time?

Let's not get started on the Cowboys and Indians thing.

Or the snow ball fights.

C'mon, laugh it off.


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## BigNickMontana

I look at it like this, you can always tell who the noob's are. 

In the trucking business its the guy who has to play east bound and down over the CB Radio, in the Navy it's the guy who can't stop quoting Top Gun, and well in boating more often than not its the guy with the pirate flag. 

If you want to fly a Jolly Rodger on your boat fine with me, but I am going to assume one of two things about you if you do, either you are a total noob, or you have watched wayyyyy too much Disney.


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## captjcook

Picking on my ancestral family is lame...
Y'all are too serious...and several of my favorite Sailnet members too, Rob and SV...
If any "Lame Pirate Flag Flyer" saw a real Pirate...they would need the flag to wipe...
Personally I like the "cocktail flag" Cheers!


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## Daveinet

Well, OK I admit, we do have cannons and guns on our boat and shoot freely into the air or randomly at others in the boat. A little water is refreshing on a hot day.


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## BigNickMontana

Daveinet said:


> Well, OK I admit, we do have cannons and guns on our boat and shoot freely into the air or randomly at others in the boat. A little water is refreshing on a hot day.






Need I say more?


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## RobGallagher

captjcook said:


> Picking on my ancestral family is lame...
> Y'all are too serious...and several of my favorite Sailnet members too, Rob and SV...
> If any "Lame Pirate Flag Flyer" saw a real Pirate...they would need the flag to wipe...
> Personally I like the "cocktail flag" Cheers!


A pirate flag is a cocktail flag in a funny hat. irate raft: irate raft: irate raft: irateraft:


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## Minnewaska

This topic is just not all that deep. Way too much philosophical prose. 

Most find the flag lame. That's really all the OP asked.


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## SVAuspicious

captjcook said:


> If any "Lame Pirate Flag Flyer" saw a real Pirate...they would need the flag to wipe...


My vote for best post in this thread.


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## 2Gringos

Daveinet said:


> Comparing a pirate flag to a Swastika is non-sense. The swastika still has symbolic meaning today, and is still used in some circles. a pirate flag does not carry the same depth of meaning, as no current pirate fly the jolly roger. The jolly roger has a greater association with Disney than with current piracy.


The swastika is a symbol of good luck. Why not make it cute again?

If the Disney marketing department wanted to take the job on, within a few years a whole bunch of people who like these things would be buying Disney products with swastikas on them.

Hey, personally I don't care if you want to fly your streaked panties up your mast. Flying a pirate flag tells the observer something about your attitude, which they will interpret based upon their own attitude and thinking. Pirate flag supporters might think they're telling the world "See what a bunch of fun people we are!!!!"

Some observers will agree with that and scoot right over to raft up and party.

Some of us will look at it and think "oh crap. Probably should go find someplace else to anchor to get rid of these bozos before the jet ski's and loud music start up."


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## captjcook

Good one Rob. I was thinking of the "Martini Glass"! had not seen this one before! If you can't run with the big dogs...



RobGallagher said:


> A pirate flag is a cocktail flag in a funny hat. irate raft: irate raft: irate raft: irateraft:


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## BigNickMontana

2Gringos said:


> The swastika is a symbol of good luck. Why not make it cute again?


Because those who fail to understand history are doomed to repeat it.


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## dylanwinter1

I must say pirate flags make me slightly uncomfortable - especially when there are no kids on board

If I was coming into a marina and there were two places to tie up - one with a boat with a pirate flag on it and one without I would head for the space furthest away

might a suggesat a telerubbies flag as an alternative?


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## RobGallagher

2Gringos said:


> The swastika is a symbol of good luck. Why not make it cute again?


Let's just hope no Hindus or Buddhists tie up next to you.


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## titustiger27

Have to be amused about the lack of outrage over nazi flags... well in comparison when the point was made that opinion of things change over time.... and I suggested how we view slavery now, is different then in the olden days. That what we consider right and wrong changes.




I guess I will drink rum tonight
:devil


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## BigNickMontana

I am partial to flying this flag myself:


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## RobGallagher

titustiger27 said:


> Have to be amused about the lack of outrage over nazi flags... well in comparison when the point was made that opinion of things change over time.... and I suggested how we view slavery now, is different then in the olden days. That what we consider right and wrong changes.
> 
> I guess I will drink rum tonight
> :devil


It's not a lack of outrage. If a Buddhist, Hindu or Jain flies a swastica it has nothing to do with nazi Germany or white supremacists. That symbol was there for centuries before nazis stole it for a few short years. Now one may see it on tv, but, to be honest I don't think I have ever seen one in person outside of Asia.

It is still displayed throughout much of the world without a single thought of nazis or or white supremacists.

Hitler could have chosen a crucifix for the symbol and that would not have changed the way most Christians displayed or cherished that symbol.

And none of this has anything to do with my 5"x8" nylon "surrender the booty" burgee.


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## titustiger27

RobGallagher said:


> It's not a lack of outrage. If a Buddhist, Hindu or Jain flies a swastica it has nothing to do with nazi Germany or white supremacists. That symbol was there for centuries before nazis stole it for a few short years. Now one may see it on tv, but, to be honest I don't think I have ever seen one in person outside of Asia.
> 
> It is still displayed throughout much of the world without a single thought of nazis or or white supremacists.
> 
> Hitler could have chosen a crucifix for the symbol and that would not have changed the way most Christians displayed or cherished that symbol.
> 
> And none of this has anything to do with my 5"x8" nylon "surrender the booty" burgee.


Wasn't referencing your post.. in fact.. I don't know what others around the world see in the svastika, but I understand that it is a symbol that means many different things .

My reference to the others who brought in nazis and the swastika and those who give that a pass....

sorry for the confusion


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## RobGallagher

titustiger27 said:


> Wasn't referencing your post.. in fact.. I don't know what others around the world see in the svastika, but I understand that it is a symbol that means many different things .
> 
> My reference to the others who brought in nazis and the swastika and those who give that a pass....
> 
> sorry for the confusion


At least you spelled it correctly  I was afraid if I spelled it with a V someone would accuse me of typing with a German accent. :devil

Fair winds!


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## titustiger27

RobGallagher said:


> At least you spelled it correctly  I was afraid if I spelled it with a V someone would accuse me of typing with a German accent. :devil
> 
> Fair winds!


Actually I was surprised of the spelling (thank you wiki) I thought it would have had a different name/word

and while I call myself an atheist buddhist.. I know of the logo from Clara Bow, which is kind of a "Pictures of Lily" type crush I have


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## RobGallagher

titustiger27 said:


> Actually I was surprised of the spelling (thank you wiki) I thought it would have had a different name/word
> 
> and while I call myself an atheist buddhist.. I know of the logo from Clara Bow, which is kind of a "Pictures of Lily" type crush I have


Greetings from a fellow Atheist/Buddhist ...trying, but, doing a bad job of following the precepts without the blackmail of hell...

It's nice to be nice just because


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## Minnewaska

RobGallagher said:


> Greetings from a fellow Atheist/Buddhist ...trying, but, doing a bad job of following the precepts without the blackmail of hell...
> 
> It's nice to be nice just because


I met the Dalai Lama about ten years ago. He ran a discussion group on his rules for living or principals or something like that.

He specifically made the point that all religions were good and had the same goal, essentially your point of being nice to each other. He also said that everyone should stay with the religion they were born into, as it will get you to the same place. Ironically, the front row of the discussion group was filled with Americans that had converted, wearing the robes and all, who had arranged his visit. I guess that proved he wasn't going to alter his principals for the audience.

By the way, his English is much more limited than it appears in sound bites. Still impressive he gets as far as he does, but after the first 5 minutes of struggling for the words in an open discussion, an interpreter converted his native language into English for most of the rest of the discussion. In some cases, he would utter about 5 words and the interpreter would then go on for minutes. I assumed what he really said to the interpreter was something like, "tell them about number 5 now"


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## titustiger27

RobGallagher said:


> Greetings from a fellow Atheist/Buddhist ...trying, but, doing a bad job of following the precepts without the blackmail of hell...
> 
> It's nice to be nice just because


Never said

I was a good buddhist

heck, never said I was good

:captain:


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## SVAuspicious

Minnewaska said:


> By the way, his English is much more limited than it appears in sound bites. Still impressive he gets as far as he does, but after the first 5 minutes of struggling for the words in an open discussion, an interpreter converted his native language into English for most of the rest of the discussion. In some cases, he would utter about 5 words and the interpreter would then go on for minutes. I assumed what he really said to the interpreter was something like, "tell them about number 5 now"


Depending on when you attended the interpreter might have been my sister, Lama Jamdrom. Her Tibetan is quite good. I understand that the Dalai Lama actually understands English rather well but struggles a bit with colloquialisms and when speaking. I'll have to ask my sister about the "number 5" approach.


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## RobGallagher

Minnewaska said:


> I met the Dalai Lama about ten years ago. He ran a discussion group on his rules for living or principals or something like that.
> 
> He specifically made the point that all religions were good and had the same goal, essentially your point of being nice to each other. He also said that everyone should stay with the religion they were born into, as it will get you to the same place. Ironically, the front row of the discussion group was filled with Americans that had converted, wearing the robes and all, who had arranged his visit. I guess that proved he wasn't going to alter his principals for the audience.
> 
> By the way, his English is much more limited than it appears in sound bites. Still impressive he gets as far as he does, but after the first 5 minutes of struggling for the words in an open discussion, an interpreter converted his native language into English for most of the rest of the discussion. In some cases, he would utter about 5 words and the interpreter would then go on for minutes. I assumed what he really said to the interpreter was something like, "tell them about number 5 now"


You probably know this, but maybe not, so I'll say it anyway. 

It could be said that the Dali Lama is (sort of) like the Pope, not all Christians follow the pope in fact most don't, but have their own organized sect that follows the same basic theme. Then you have your Jim Bakers, the folks who bomb people in the name of Jesus and then the ones were everyone dresses in white and drinks poisoned Kool Aid. Buddhism is still a religion that occasionally spurs fanaticism, greedy scammers and nut cases.

As for conversion to Buddhism, it is not frowned upon. However, it's very important that people find their own way to it if they choose. So when talking religion, there is that slippery slope of debate the eventually turns into a mine is better than yours debate if one is not careful. The best way to avoid turning a religious conversation into a conversion course is to cut that part of the discussion completely. Also, Buddhism could very well be completely wrong and without the 10 Commandments or Christ or Muhammad we are lost.

And there you have it folks, we got it all the way though politics and into religion.

I'm so proud of us.


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## titustiger27

sometimes (and less likely for christianity and islam) buddhism is practiced as a philosophy.

and the main theme here seems to be interpretation, often through the lens of a belief system that is not likely to be very objective or flexible 
''

:2 boat:


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## Minnewaska

SVAuspicious said:


> Depending on when you attended the interpreter might have been my sister, Lama Jamdrom. Her Tibetan is quite good. I understand that the Dalai Lama actually understands English rather well but struggles a bit with colloquialisms and when speaking. I'll have to ask my sister about the "number 5" approach.


No kidding, that's neat. However, it was a fella.

You are exactly right, he understood what was asked, but he seemed to grow weary of mentally searching for the right words to say and deferred to the interpreter.

One other thread drift recollection. We're assembled awaiting his arrival. As with many dignitaries, you expect at some point that someone would get the room's attention and make an introduction. (If it were a politician it would include all sort of superlative compliments). However, no sooner are we wondering if he's about to arrive that he already standing in the room. Low key. Just the way he seems to like it. Cool dude.


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## Stu Jackson

RobGallagher said:


> <<<<<<SNIP>>>>>>
> 
> And there you have it folks, we got it all the way though politics and into religion.
> 
> I'm so proud of us.


Superb observation, well put. Anchors are sure to be next!

And just think about what started all this, too! :laugh

*No. 5*, BTW, is "OK, Jared, take it from here, I'm bushed."


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## titustiger27

There is a reason why they call 'em PI-rates

3.14


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## Capt Len

More proof that pi arrr squared and cake arrr round


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## titustiger27

I like to go swimmin'
with bowlegged women

and try to catch a big pike


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## oysterman23

Arrgh!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


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## RobGallagher

Argh! a most useful word.
Could mean yes, could mean no.
Can be a suitable greeting, maybe not for a first date or if you get pulled over after last call, but useful none the less.
Can also be used to say goodbye, much like aloha. ex; Aloha! Argh! No one can tell if you are coming or going.
Do you have a headache? Argh!
Would you like another rum? Argh!
Is that my thong you are wearing? Argh?
What time is it? Argh!
How's the pasta? Argh!
Do you think these jeans make me look fat? Argh! (slowly back away, not to fast, you could get slapped or laid).
What's under that kilt? Argh! Can I take a look? Argh!


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## titustiger27

RobGallagher said:


> Argh! a most useful word.
> Could mean yes, could mean no.
> Can be a suitable greeting, maybe not for a first date or if you get pulled over after last call, but useful none the less.
> Can also be used to say goodbye, much like aloha. ex; Aloha! Argh! No one can tell if you are coming or going.
> Do you have a headache? Argh!
> Would you like another rum? Argh!
> Is that my thong you are wearing? Argh?
> What time is it? Argh!
> How's the pasta? Argh!
> Do you think these jeans make me look fat? Argh! (slowly back away, not to fast, you could get slapped or laid).
> What's under that kilt? Argh! Can I take a look? Argh!


if used right.... avoid all

arrrrgh-uments

:laugh

_
is that pirate flag lame
no it's arrrrgh_


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## WindchaserPY23

Okay, me hearties, ye be askin fer it:


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## titustiger27

WindchaserPY23 said:


> Okay, me hearties, ye be askin fer it:


Pyrite is fools gold


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## Scotty C-M

Way to much time on your hands ….. :devil

:2 boat: irateraft:


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## titustiger27

Scotty C-M said:


> Way to much time on your hands &#8230;.. :devil
> 
> :2 boat: irateraft:


I have plenty time on my flag



like Bartholomew Roberts 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartholomew_Roberts

or Emanuel Wynn

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Wynn

or Walter Kennedy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Kennedy_(pirate)


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## titustiger27

maybe those who think pirate flags are lame

are just haters in general.. especially to new people


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## Vernon Deck

Get a parrot too.


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## titustiger27

Everyone knows, that when a Merchant ship saw a ship flying the pirate skeleton flag (Jolly Parrot). there was nothing but fear on the deck... and lots of parrot poop

and there was nothing lame about that










this calls for a pirate emoji

irateraft:


----------



## Scotty C-M

So I was down at the harbor a couple of days ago, and there was a beautiful 50' yawl tied up. I don't know what it was, but it was pretty much a gold plater. White hull and topsides, clean canvass, modern rig (Interesting: In-mast furling on the main and looked to be in-boom furling on the mizzen.) Big anchor in a hawes pipe with a large stainless strike plate. And flying on the port spreader, a really big …. wait for it …. Pirate Flag!! I thought of this thread, never expecting to see it again, and yet, here it is. Tell you what, I'll try and get down to the harbor tomorrow (ohhh, good excuse to hang out at the harbor) and take a picture of it for you. Maybe I'll put up MY flag too! 

Arrrrrrrrrrrrr………………………………………... /./././././././././././././././././././././././././irateraft:


----------



## SVAuspicious

Scotty C-M said:


> there was a beautiful 50' yawl tied up. I don't know what it was, but it was pretty much a gold plater.
> 
> *snip*
> 
> And flying on the port spreader, a really big &#8230;. wait for it &#8230;. Pirate Flag!!


A well padded wallet in no way is in conflict with bad taste.


----------



## titustiger27

Hmmm.. interesting thought

Take any one thing about yourself.. big to minutia

You know like your job, to the shoes you are wearing right now. Take something like your wind direction finder on your boat.

Does it define you? Take your whole boat. I bet a few here, on a sailing forum, might say, that their boat defines them. Might be true.

I kind of believe most things are a part of _who_ you are, but not *what* you are. and most things kind of an indication. I have a piece of yarn to find wind direction --- that I found in the road. It works okay with wind direction, but not so well with speed or apparent wind.

Maybe I am just cheap, or don't have the funds and/or skills to install something fancy at the top of my mast... maybe I don't care enough...maybe some combination of all of that.

but I am not a green piece of yarn... and while some might think the yarn is lame. The yarn is just yarn.

Does any flag on your boat, define who you are. What if your engine fails and there is no wind and the current is pushing you to danger and you put up a distress flag.. Does that flag define you for the moment.. or are you always a distressed person. Even in that situation you might not be distressed, though your boat is.

As Tom Robbins once wrote:_"There are two kinds of people in this world: Those who believe there are two kinds of people in this world and those who are smart enough to know better."_

Pirate flags are not lame, unless they are, but not really, because a Pirate Flag just is... you present your own values into it.

others might not see your values


----------



## aeventyr60

We've learned to flee upon seeing a SSCA commodore's burgee too.


----------



## titustiger27

I am sure a lot of extra fenders go on the boats in the marina when they guy flying the cocktail flag for the past two hours, decides to go for a little sail


----------



## Minnesail

Yesterday I saw a Buccaneer 18 by the dock. They have crossed pirate cutlasses on the sail.

It turns out it was quite literally lame, in that it had capsized and lost its rudder and had to be towed to shore.


----------



## titustiger27

I've capsized
I've been towed --- twice

once in a LoneStar 13 (not a Buccaneer, more like 50¢ an ear), just saying


----------



## Scotty C-M

I thought Lone Star was a beer.


----------



## titustiger27

Lone Star is also a state too
_
but without the dual keels_


----------



## aloof

Nice _trim_ on that Chrysler 13. But the _sails_ need some adjustment.


----------



## titustiger27

aloof said:


> Nice _trim_ on that Chrysler 13. But the _sails_ need some adjustment.


Nice innuendo, but it doesn't compete with

_"Excellent body, best price"_

That aside...and it didn't bother me, but I am surprised they used the number.... some people don't like 13, though I know it might have something to do with the LoneStar 16


----------



## Scotty C-M

the big 50'er with the Pirate Flag is gone, but last night I was out for a sail and this lovely Catalina 30 went by out of the fog. Hope you like it!


----------



## titustiger27

Nothing lame there

:2 boat:


----------



## Capt Len

Lame or not, that flag says 'no quarter given or expected' That means to me cut they throats take their chocolate.


----------



## titustiger27

Vin Scully not lame
http://m.es.mlb.com/cutfour/2016/08/14/195615808/vin-scully-talks-about-pirate-history


----------



## SanderO

radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG


It's puerile and tacky.


----------



## Squidd

It is never "Lame" to fly the flag of your choice and conviction...

It is only the other guys "perception" that it is lame or not...


----------



## twoshoes

The thing is, at least how I see it, when one flies a flag on their boat, or displays a piece of flair for the public to view, they are trying to convey a message to the public.

For example, when people put an "It's a boy!" sign in their yard, they want everyone to know they just had a baby. When people slap Yeti stickers on their rear window they want people to know(for some odd reason)that they are into overpriced coolers. When people fly a US or any country's flag on their front porch, they are showing everyone their patriotism. 

Take those silly stick figure decals I see on mostly minivans running around town for instance. They don't do it for themselves, they do it because they want everyone behind them to be aware they are married, have three children, two cats, and a dog. Why? Why do they think I or anyone else for that matter cares how large their brood is? Are they bragging about the ability to procreate and/or mocking those that can't?

So when someone flies a pirate flag, I don't feel they are doing it for them, they display it proudly because they want anyone who lays eyes on that flag to know what exactly? That they admire and idolize historical figures that used to steal, rape, and murder? Or maybe that they're a fan of crappy Disney adventure movies?

I like to have fun, I've seen the argument made that "it's fun". Would it be any less fun hanging in a saloon vs flying above deck for everyone to see, or is the fun part showing everyone what fun loving people they are? Wouldn't a plain flag with the text "We're Fun" accomplish the same thing, or would it be...lame?

You know what? Now that I'm thinking about it, the fact that I just don't get something that is actually quite benign may very well make me the one that's lame. irateraft:


----------



## Minnesail

I've taken to flying a smiley flag off my topping lift:


----------



## twoshoes

That definitely says fun, but would the bullet-hole blood dripping version make it more or less fun?


----------



## Bleemus

Squidd said:


> It is never "Lame" to fly the flag of your choice and conviction...
> 
> It is only the other guys "perception" that it is lame or not...


Tell that to the slaves who died under that flag.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## titustiger27

I'm not sure if I get the sympathy for slaves of pirates.

I get it, but I am not sure if I believe it. Do people not fly the Union Jack because of how England treated Indians (from India)... Or would you refuse to fly American flag because of how we wiped out indigenous people and kept slave trading going until the mid 1800's?

There are lots of flags (countries) that forced people to fight under the flag...

The pirates were egregious, but if you read "Under the Black Flag" for many men, the pirate life was illegal and horrible, but for some, that was their best alternative

A lot of activities during that time were horrible. At times the pirates were better off than other sailors

That said, if you really are concern about the actually history of a pirate flag (which I don't believe most people.. or at least myself try to portray ).. but if that is what concerns you when you see a pirate flag. I understand. and that would mean the discussion is moot, because are no longer talking about lame.

And at that point, many many flags are bad. If you fly a cocktail flag you are being insensitive to alcoholics. 

I'm not trying to belittle the sympathy.. just asking how far would one carry this sentiment out.


----------



## SVAuspicious

titustiger27 said:


> I'm not sure if I get the sympathy for slaves of pirates.


Remember the Quest.


----------



## titustiger27

SVAuspicious said:


> Remember the Quest.


I think this is a video game analogy that I don't get..

-________________

To make it clear, I am not for slavery..


----------



## Minnesail

titustiger27 said:


> And at that point, many many flags are bad. If you fly a cocktail flag you are being insensitive to alcoholics.


And my smiley flag is insensitive to the clinically depressed


----------



## SVAuspicious

titustiger27 said:


> I think this is a video game analogy that I don't get..


No. Not at all. Four US citizens on a sailboat were killed by pirates in 2011.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SY_Quest_incident

Piracy is no joke, and pirate flags are lame.


----------



## NadiaonCatalina34

radioguy said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> 
> I'm new to sailing. Is it considered lame to fly a pirate flag up on my shrouds or stays? Just a small one?
> 
> Thanks
> RG


Flying this flag is ok for short periods of frivolity(for your children's amusement or a cocktail party) but most times it just makes you look foolish as you go about your normal boat activity.

Keep in mind what it truly means: Seriously, you have no allegiance to any sovereign authority and this flag was used to inspire such fear that ships' sailors would just give up without a fight and hope they would not be murdered for fun after the plunder of the ship.

A US Coast Guard vessel can (and has done so within authority) force the strike of this flag on a private boat in US waters. Yes.

Don't misinterpret this - we have hoisted the black flag for special events ourselves but we keep it reserved for that.


----------



## RobGallagher

Bleemus said:


> Tell that to the slaves who died under that flag.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Historically, who was it that first raised the nylon 12" x 18" "Surrender The Booty" flag? :2 boat:

I see your point, I just can't take the silly flag that seriously.

I'm wiling to bet there are NO, yes NONE, as in ZERO, sailboat owners who are promoting piracy by flying some imaginary or even historically accurate novelty flag.

Compare that to the flag of the confederacy and we find those who fly it, not as a joke or as a historical item, but use it as a banner representing division, ill will or worse.

And finally, I don't think the Somali criminals are flying a banner at all, let alone one created by the artists at Disney.


----------



## Minnesail

NadiaonCatalina34 said:


> A US Coast Guard vessel can (and has done so within authority) force the strike of this flag on a private boat in US waters. Yes.


Really? Do you have a source for that?


----------



## caberg

NadiaonCatalina34 said:


> A US Coast Guard vessel can (and has done so within authority) force the strike of this flag on a private boat in US waters. Yes.


Pretty sure the 1st Amendment would take issue with this.


----------



## NadiaonCatalina34

Minnesail said:


> Really? Do you have a source for that?


I do not want to inflame a "rights" discussion here, so I will end it with the source is direct local experience with a verbal account. No written document. Please, let's not feed the lawyers.
Thanks!


----------



## caberg

If you're going to make a very bold statement about the legalities of flying a certain flag you should be prepared to back it up. That crosses over a huge line from the lame vs. not-lame discussion. It seems very unlikely to me that the CG has the authority to force a private vessel to take down the Jolly Roger.


----------



## therapy23

Minnesail said:


> And my smiley flag is insensitive to the clinically depressed


So that is what I felt. I wasn't sure.


----------



## Bleemus

Old pirates, yes, they rob I;
Sold I to the merchant ships,
Minutes after they took I
From the bottomless pit.
But my hand was made strong
By the 'and of the Almighty.
We forward in this generation
Triumphantly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Squidd

"Piracy is not a victimless crime"

At least that what it says every time I plug in a video..


----------



## titustiger27

Squidd said:


> "Piracy is not a victimless crime"
> 
> At least that what it says every time I plug in a video..


This is pretty funny. I can't wait to hear the outcry from the people say flying a novelty jolly rogers is endorsing the heinous acts from the 1700's... when they say Video Pirates, by their name, are only endorsing heinous acts from the 1700's


----------



## Squidd

I used to record music off the radio with my cassette player...

Does that make me a heinous criminal...?

If so I fly my Surrender the Booty flag proudly.


----------



## titustiger27

Squidd said:


> I used to record music off the radio with my cassette player...
> 
> Does that make me a heinous criminal...?
> 
> If so I fly my Surrender the Booty flag proudly.


I am really ashamed of you.

I hope your mother walked in the room and had a conversation similar to:

"what are you doing... don't shuush me, why are you pointing at the radio.. o you are recording."

Like my mom did

It always made the recording more entertaining for my friends.


----------



## Daveinet

Except that it was previously legal to make recording off the radio for your own use. Since then major changes have been made to copyright law which means even thinking the word copy has now been made illegal.


----------



## Squidd

My Mom would walk in my room and say "What are you doing ?" 

And then shake her head, turn around walk out and shut the door, sobbing quietly....


----------



## titustiger27

many a mother has been left in dispair as her son is spending time in the pokey.


and everyone knows you don't want to be hiding your booty, in the pokey

======

How is it everyone of a certain age recorded songs on the radio ( and didn't seem to care about the quality) and had someone talk while they did so..


----------



## Squidd

titustiger27 said:


> and everyone knows you don't want to be hiding your booty, in the pokey
> 
> ======


Hey, the last thing you want to do is Surrender the Booty in the pokey :eek


----------



## titustiger27

Pokey n booty.... well that might be okay with some... but the day... the day that Gumby came home early...

It didn't end well.. and when I say 'end well' I've said too much.. Let's just say the cross bones were not at half-mast


----------



## Squidd

Daveinet said:


> Except that it was previously legal to make recording off the radio for your own use. Since then major changes have been made to copyright law which means even thinking the word copy has now been made illegal.


Yeah, and me and my wife lived together for a couple years before we got married, and that was OK...

Now my daughter wants to move in with her boyfriend... And that's Not OK...

What's your point..?


----------



## mstern

titustiger27 said:


> I am really ashamed of you.
> 
> I hope your mother walked in the room and had a conversation similar to:
> 
> "what are you doing... don't shuush me, why are you pointing at the radio.. o you are recording."
> 
> Like my mom did
> 
> It always made the recording more entertaining for my friends.


Wait, you recorded music from the radio with a microphone?!? I used to just grease up the tape deck, plug it into the stereo's output, and let her rip. The biggest challenge was to get to the pause button before any commercials started playing. That and hope that the DJ would shut the hell up and not talk over the music.

Good times.

Oh, and Pirate flags are only a little bit lame. If anything, having a fat, rich, white guy on his yacht fly a pirate flag should be seen as at least comically (if not tragically) ironic.

Lastly, I cannot believe this thread is still alive. Hey OP, are you still there? See what you did?!? Let this be a lesson to you. Next time, ask about gun rights, religion or politics; you know, something less inflammatory than pirate flags.


----------



## titustiger27

mstern said:


> Wait, you recorded music from the radio with a microphone?!? I used to just grease up the tape deck, plug it into the stereo's output, and let her rip. The biggest challenge was to get to the pause button before any commercials started playing. That and hope that the DJ would shut the hell up and not talk over the music.
> 
> Good times.
> 
> Oh, and Pirate flags are only a little bit lame. If anything, having a fat, rich, white guy on his yacht fly a pirate flag should be seen as at least comically (if not tragically) ironic.
> 
> Lastly, I cannot believe this thread is still alive. Hey OP, are you still there? See what you did?!? Let this be a lesson to you. Next time, ask about gun rights, religion or politics; you know, something less inflammatory than pirate flags.


I don't think the original poster has logged on in almost six years He joined in July 2010, and last post was Oct. 2010

I had high quality Radio Shack microphones that cost $2.47 each (I'm guessing)

And you are right.. there has been some serious bickering on this thread


----------



## Paleorob

Not sailing, but rafting once in our personal rig we got a serious talking-to by local law enforcement on the San Juan River. They nearly confiscated our numerous pirate flags we had flying from the grab line around the raft. Take from that what you will; personally I won't be flying them again.


----------



## Squidd

> take from that what you will...


.

I take it alcohol was involved...


----------



## titustiger27

One time I was on a beer festival.. and I was drinking... and I was doing some really stupid things... And a police officer told me to move along.


Since then I've bought many pirate flags.

Learn from this and drink a lot


----------



## Paleorob

Squidd said:


> .
> 
> I take it alcohol was involved...


Only a few growlers on the beach the night before. This was early AM and we were packing up our camp.


----------



## Jimmy Cricket

Squidd said:


> Yeah, and me and my wife lived together for a couple years before we got married, and that was OK...
> 
> Now my daughter wants to move in with her boyfriend... And that's Not OK...
> 
> What's your point..?


 Thats because your a Good Dad and the boyfriend is a bum looking to get your progeny to pay half his bills and use her credit card to buy his toys.
He will soon leave her high and dry once the credit card is maxed and move on to the next "girlfriend". You should be worried.

Break out the pirate flag and the cannon , keep you powder dry and blow him to kingdom come!

However in order to not be lame you should design your own Pirate flag (properly known as a signal).


----------



## Squidd

Jimmy Cricket said:


> Thats because your a Good Dad and the boyfriend is a bum looking to get your progeny to pay half his bills and use her credit card to buy his toys.
> He will soon leave her high and dry once the credit card is maxed and move on to the next "girlfriend". You should be worried.
> 
> Break out the pirate flag and the cannon , keep you powder dry and blow him to kingdom come!
> 
> However in order to not be lame you should design your own Pirate flag (properly known as a signal).


Yeah, but he's a Plumber...which is almost as good as a doctor (which is what I wanted her to marry)

So far he's installed a new vent pipe for me and says he can get me the hook up on a slightly used "super flusher" toilet ...

So we'll have to play this one out a bit... irateraft:


----------



## titustiger27

This guy rocked the pirate flag during his travels





irateraft:


----------



## Minnesail

I even took my smiley face flag with me on a charter. We decided we're un-pirates and named the flag the Jolly Molly.


----------



## titustiger27

Rumor has it, 'molly' has a drug reference.. and Pirates are known smugglers










just saying


----------



## Minnesail

titustiger27 said:


> Rumor has it, 'molly' has a drug reference..


That is how we came up with the name.

One of the other boats in our group was flying a pirate flag AND a beer flag. I commented that I wouldn't fly a beer flag, because it implies to other boaters that you're already drunk. Someone on the boat said "But we're flying a smiley face, that implies to other boaters that we're on ecstasy." And thus the name Jolly Molly was born.

Regarding the pirate flag: There were eight boats in our fleet, two of which flew a pirate flag. One was the boat we called the "old goats" since they're mostly retired and older than average. They flew the pirate and the beer flag. The other was the the only catamaran. It kind of seemed to fit the cat, but I'm not sure why the old goats flew it.


----------



## Squidd

Minnesail said:


> I even took my smiley face flag with me on a charter. We decided we're un-pirates and named the flag the Jolly Molly.


Lame.....


----------



## Bleemus

Love the smiley flag. Hopefully the pirate fad will fade away. 

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


----------



## RTB

This thread is still going??? Dang, I posted way, way back.... anyway, now I'm flying my pirate flag again. The boat behind me is a $160,000.00 Tartan 3700 (dark hull - named "Black Pearl") that also flies a pirate flag. I figure if a guy with that much money thinks it's ok, I'm good with it too. After 4 years of cruising and not working, I got the Dockmaster job here at my marina. I get free dockage, plus they pay me to run their marina. Now I feel like an actual pirate, so flying the flag seems appropriate.

Ralph


----------



## Bleemus

RTB said:


> This thread is still going??? Dang, I posted way, way back.... anyway, now I'm flying my pirate flag again. The boat behind me is a $160,000.00 Tartan 3700 (dark hull - named "Black Pearl") that also flies a pirate flag. I figure if a guy with that much money thinks it's ok, I'm good with it too. After 4 years of cruising and not working, I got the Dockmaster job here at my marina. I get free dockage, plus they pay me to run their marina. Now I feel like an actual pirate, so flying the flag seems appropriate.
> 
> Ralph


You are never a true pirate until you do a little thievery, rape, slave trading and murder. Being a dock master with free berthage hardly qualifies. Fly your flag but know you aren't a true pirate.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## RTB

Bleemus said:


> You are never a true pirate until you do a little thievery, rape, slave trading and murder. Being a dock master with free berthage hardly qualifies. Fly your flag but know you aren't a true pirate.


A pirate might not tell the whole story....










You don't know me, do you?


----------



## titustiger27

Bleemus said:


> You are never a true pirate until you do a little thievery, rape, slave trading and murder. Being a dock master with free berthage hardly qualifies. Fly your flag but know you aren't a true pirate.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


not all pirates are that which you speak


----------



## RTB

Bleemus said:


> You are never a true pirate until you do a little thievery, rape, slave trading and murder. Being a dock master with free berthage hardly qualifies. Fly your flag but know you aren't a true pirate.


Going back to this post....

No, I don't steal, no I don't rape, no I don't slave trade, and no, I don't murder. I do live on a boat. I do not have a mortgage, I do not pay property taxes. I do not pay interest on loans. I do not own a car. I do not have air conditioning on the boat. I produce little garbage, don't fertilize my lawn (which I do not have). My carbon and ecological footprint is much smaller than that of the normal (land based) person. We spent 4 months in the Keys and South Miami area this past winter. We used less than 5 gallons of gasoline, and about the same for diesel, since we have solar and wind on the boat. So, while I may not fit the traditional definition of a pirate, maybe I might fit the definition of a modern day pirate?

I like Jimmy Buffet in some ways. For me, being a pirate is about being different...about being independent...about being anti-establishment...about being something that is different than what is considered normal these days. Perhaps, todays pirates are actually the good guys?

Flying a pirate flag is all about attitude.

Ralph


----------



## Daveinet

Bleemus said:


> You are never a true pirate until you do a little thievery, rape, slave trading and murder. Being a dock master with free berthage hardly qualifies. Fly your flag but know you aren't a true pirate.


Seems we should fly one over Washington.


----------



## miatapaul

RTB said:


> A pirate might not tell the whole story....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know me, do you?


Wow, that is nice easy access to the electrical panel from your birth, nice.....

(was I supposed to be looking at something else?) :laugh


----------



## chip

I officially rescind my previous statements. I now approve of pirate flags in some limited contexts (re: booty).


----------



## titustiger27

regardless of how I feel about pirate flags

I will not twerk mine


----------



## RobGallagher

Well, I just spent the morning shadowing this Draken Harald Hårfagre ? The largest viking ship built in modern times up the mystic river. It also happened to be Mystic Ct's Pirate Invasion festival.

I hope we didn't offend to many people with our Jolly Roger's or Viking ships.


----------



## RTB

miatapaul said:


> Wow, that is nice easy access to the electrical panel from your birth, nice.....
> 
> (was I supposed to be looking at something else?) :laugh


Not my booty unfortunately. Boat Babe had a nice run, but slowing down now after more than 1800 posts- Boat Babe on Strike! | Page 92 | SailboatOwners.com Forums

Ralph


----------



## Minnesail

How about this:









From a distance it looks like the Jolly Roger, but then when it straightens out you see it's the yin yang.

I was flying this yesterday to symbolize the joy of sailing, but the sorrow of it being the end of the season.


----------



## Bleemus

I like that. Ommmmmm. 

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


----------



## titustiger27

OMP
Ommm my Pirate


----------



## titustiger27

I bet these folks fly the jolly rogers.. I get some think they are lame to

yarrrr

Election Manifesto 2016 - Píratar ? Píratar

NYT's getting in on the action
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/31/w...ter-pirate-party-makes-strong-gains.html?_r=0


----------



## Squidd

Squidd said:


> Yeah, and me and my wife lived together for a couple years before we got married, and that was OK...
> 
> Now my daughter wants to move in with her boyfriend... And that's Not OK...
> 
> What's your point..?


So I got a plumber in the family now...

Two days ago wife and I were in the next town for a Dr's appointment, thought we'd go visit the daughter...

Took her and the "boyfriend" out to dinner and then went to the "boyfriend's" house for a little visit and talk...

Went out in the woodshop for a little talk with the "boyfriend"...

He ends up asking me for permission to marry my daughter... Next day he asks her to marry him... Today they are engaged...

I think my Scary Skull Black T Shirt might of had something to do with it...


----------



## Smyrna

Not if you live like a fuggin pirate its not. If your ship is all spit and polish and your jacket Burberry and shoes Sperry than yea, its pretty lame. If you only wear clothes around male company and think water goes better with Rum than nah, not lame at all.


----------



## UnnecessaryJibe

I think it's a bit silly. I'd rather fly my country's flag the proper way.


----------



## Bleemus

It's a fad that will fade. 

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


----------



## Sal Paradise

Squidd said:


> So I got a plumber in the family now...
> 
> Two days ago wife and I were in the next town for a Dr's appointment, thought we'd go visit the daughter...
> 
> Took her and the "boyfriend" out to dinner and then went to the "boyfriend's" house for a little visit and talk...
> 
> Went out in the woodshop for a little talk with the "boyfriend"...
> 
> He ends up asking me for permission to marry my daughter... Next day he asks her to marry him... Today they are engaged...
> 
> I think my Scary Skull Black T Shirt might of had something to do with it...


No my friend, you might have picked up the check but you didn't "take" them out to dinner. He took you out and you never saw it coming.


----------



## ThereYouAre




----------



## Bleemus

ThereYouAre said:


>


Ha! Pirates at their finest!

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


----------



## Squidd

Sal Paradise said:


> No my friend, you might have picked up the check but you didn't "take" them out to dinner. He took you out and you never saw it coming.


Yeah, but I got my own private plumber now...and that's almost as good as a Doctor...


----------



## titustiger27

happy holiday


----------



## Squidd

Lame.....


----------



## RobGallagher

Rock on faux-scallywags!

PS Nobody really knows what day Jesus was born and Xmas trees are Pagan symbols. I'll still be stuffing a stocking for a seven year old and Santa better bring my favorite boat some good stuff!


----------



## Squidd

I asked Santa for Pirate Stuff...

Just before security dragged me off his lap and escorted me out of the mall.

I guess they're not into Pirates either....Lame...


----------



## Minnesail

Squidd said:


> I asked Santa for Pirate Stuff...
> 
> Just before security dragged me off his lap and escorted me out of the mall.
> 
> I guess they're not into Pirates either....Lame...


They would have gone easier on you if you had been wearing pants.


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## blt2ski

Are you idjiots still arguing over good or bad to flying a pirate flag? 72 pages worth, wowowow!

I stick to flying my winston pirate flag that won me a fifth of rum thank you very much!

Oh, to that mud sucker flying a "Blackbeard" flaggy, hope your related, or us relatives will be coming to getch ya!

Marty


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## titustiger27

pirate
for the
bird


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## titustiger27

arrrgh it is PI rate day (3.14) what goes around comes around


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## Daveinet

titustiger27 said:


> arrrgh it is PI rate day (3.14) what goes around comes around


Yes, you answered the OP's question. No doubt, that was lame.


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## MarkofSeaLife

Lots of cruisers here in the Caribbean have been reading this thread.

No pirate flags spotted for months! :grin :kiss :smile


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## twoshoes

I noticed in that famous "Credit Card Captain" video that makes an appearance from time to time, the man at the helm responsible for the demolition derby in that mooring field was flying his Jolly Roger proudly. 

These flags may have an actual use after all, to give others warning they may need to fend off a marauder or cut loose and run.


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## titustiger27

Picture one Sailboat Story
Picture two Accidental Sailor Girl

Yes captain hook dreams do come true



















There are lots of videos... maybe they should be posted

:devil


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## SVAuspicious

It's all great fun until someone's eye gets put out.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener.../278649-pirates-strike-again.html#post3855553

Remember the Quest.


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## titustiger27

hmmm

everyone knows Somalians fly pirate flags.. I think they are a lot of things (bad things), but lame wouldn't be one of them

"Somali fly pirate flags"
no luck
https://www.google.com/search?q=Som...PjNrSAhWr54MKHWfHB9IQsAQIGQ&biw=1459&bih=1108

"Somali pirate "
also no pirate flags

https://www.google.com/search?q=Som...&biw=1459&bih=1108#tbm=isch&q=Somali+pirate&*

good news for "one eye pirate"
















:worthless:

.
.
.


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## Minnewaska

What is the point of continuously resurrecting this thread, with the same arguments? It was humorous at one point (a long, long time ago), but it eventually crossed the line. 

Maybe it should be closed, before another pissing match and name calling starts.


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## titustiger27

why did the pirate have a wooden leg

lame

Why did the pirate flag cross the rode

pony was lame


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## Tadw

I have had one one my boat for the last 31 years. If I ever sail without it I would probably sink! And o'yes rum and song are aboard aplenty !!!


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## titustiger27

Tadw said:


> I have had one one my boat for the last 31 years. If I ever sail without it I would probably sink! And o'yes rum and song are aboard aplenty !!!


how long does a flag last, I am guessing the rum not long''irateraft:


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## jwing

titustiger27 said:


> arrrgh it is PI rate day (3.14) what goes around comes around


Oh man, I gotta make a flag that has this ensignia: "(pi symbol) knots" or "(pi symbol) / hour"

I work at, and live and sail near the birthplace of NASA; surely the rocket scientists will get it.


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## titustiger27

jwing said:


> Oh man, I gotta make a flag that has this ensignia: "(pi symbol) knots" or "(pi symbol) / hour"
> 
> I work at, and live and sail near the birthplace of NASA; surely the rocket scientists will get it.


I've always like the 'math aspect' of sailing. My first boat (LoneStar 13) I called 'a tangent' so I could go off on one. I now have a Designer Choice 15 that I named "Vector X Y"

but words and math are fun for me... some might think they are lame.


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## dsehl

I have since switched to a viking flag.

While blaring Amon Ammarth.


:ship-captain:


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## dsehl

I think the rule here should be you cant post images unless you have 10 posts OR you are a member for 10 years... so i dont post much. I was busy buying pos sailboats...

-D


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## titustiger27

dsehl said:


> I think the rule here should be you cant post images unless you have 10 posts OR you are a member for 10 years... so i dont post much. I was busy buying pos sailboats...
> 
> -D


On the positive side, you could start 10 threads how you think science is lame... or how you want us to support your vlog on patreon and you would be in like flint.

Also, if you have an image hosting site, you could probably upload the picture there and then display it here


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## titustiger27




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## titustiger27

EarthDay Pirates


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## dsehl

titustiger27 said:


> On the positive side, you could start 10 threads how you think science is lame... or how you want us to support your vlog on patreon and you would be in like flint.
> 
> Also, if you have an image hosting site, you could probably upload the picture there and then display it here
> 
> - You are a troll ^^^.
> 
> Anyways... so I have a new boat and I am in a new marina, it is a fancy marina with a bunch of very expensive power boats. My 1973 different looking sailboat sticks out a bit. I rented a slip from a lady who bought the slip but does not have a boat, she bought it for an investment, and I got a great deal (less than all the other local marinas). Turns out my slip is right next to a 40 foot sailboat, not sure the make, and what does he have flying at the top of his mast, yep... The big black jolly roger, with a slight tear in the edge.
> 
> Good thing is that its a great locator... I just tell guests when we are walking up, "my sailboat is close to that pirate flag over there..."
> 
> -Capt Scurvy


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## Don L

I'm going to look into getting a Border and Customs flag. That will scare the poop out of you lame pirate flag people when you see it! :devilirateraft::ship-captain:


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## Mikeomg

Your boat, your choice Captain!


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## denverd0n

147 pages of this stuff!?!

Okay, I will weigh in... Yes, flying a pirate flag is lame. Completely lame.

Of course, that's just my opinion. What would be REALLY lame would be letting someone else's opinions rule your life in matters as completely arbitrary as flying, or not flying, a pirate flag.

So if you WANT to fly a pirate flag, but you DON'T, because you are afraid that other people will think it is lame, then you are being even MORE lame!


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## MarkofSeaLife

Lame
Lame
Lame
Why does this lame thread still lame up? 


L a M E!


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## Don L

MarkofSeaLife;3984001
L a M E![/QUOTE said:


> That was a non lame lame:devil


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## SloopDogg

Whats amazing is that this has been a live topic for almost 7 years! OP is no longer a novice. they either have 7 years sailing or no longer on the water. I'm hoping it is the former and they are flying whatever flag puts a smile on their face!!!


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## Don L

Maybe the pirates got them


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## titustiger27

doesn't matter where you are, if you are lost


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## ImASonOfaSailor

I would fly what ever you want to fly. If people don't fly flags .. all that is is laziness.. fly your damn flags

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


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## RobGallagher

This is the greatest non-porn thread in the history of the internet.

I have this job that requires me to wear a jacket indoors for no reason. My shirts are starched and stiff. They make me tie a strip of cloth around my neck, very tightly and with a stupid knot. I cannot drink rum at work.

Flying a pirate flag is childish and immature. Hence I might fly a pirate flag.


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## Minnesail

titustiger27 said:


> doesn't matter where you are, if you are lost


If you didn't know where you were going in the first place, can you get lost?


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## Minnesail

I'm still flying a smiley flag from my topping lift. I wore out the previous one and had to order another.

It's oversized for the boat, and it's silly, but I like it. I leave it up all the time to make the mooring field look cheery. Also other sailors like to use it to gauge wind when approaching.

I also fly an American flag on a pole on the starboard stern, but only when the boat is in use. It gets put away otherwise.

I have a pirate flag, but I don't think I've ever used it. I know there's a raft-up birthday party this Saturday, perhaps I should hoist the Jolly Roger and steal all their rum.


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## titustiger27

Minnesail said:


> If you didn't know where you were going in the first place, can you get lost?


Seems like part of the definition

• don't know where you are

• don't know how you got there

• don't know where you were

• don't know why

• etc


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## titustiger27

RobGallagher said:


> This is the greatest non-porn thread in the history of the internet.
> 
> I have this job that requires me to wear a jacket indoors for no reason. My shirts are starched and stiff. They make me tie a strip of cloth around my neck, very tightly and with a stupid knot. I cannot drink rum at work.
> 
> Flying a pirate flag is childish and immature. Hence I might fly a pirate flag.


in some ways it is a first amendment issue if you live in the U.S. which doesn't say if it is lame or not

your post is an example of why we need to express ourselves, in spite of the 'wound tights'


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## Minnewaska

One must live a pretty privileged existence, if they think the first ammendment was written because some people think things are lame. There hasn't been one suggestion that says you can't fly whatever you like.

The 'wound tight' comment is inflammatory and you seem to like doing that.


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## titustiger27

One must have a strong sense of ownership of the world to think they can decided what is right or wrong in the world and that judgement is theirs alone

and I guess some people think that is their job to be the judge and jury of..... well just about everything fun

I see they have no problem in doing that or judging where your arrogances begins 

...and that all others thoughts must end. Just know your opinion is just that.


Just as worrying about being 'wound tight' is a privilege one can own, if they are willing to place themselves at the center of that spinning universe, which appears some not only like to do, but think is their due.


That said, it is pretty entertaining to see anyone fly their 'freak out' flag over trivial things, as well as their pirate flag.

spin on, but know this isn't about you...


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## Minnewaska

Seriously? You criticize people that think differently from you as "wound tight" and then get on the podium to pronounce that others are judgmental?


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## titustiger27

:devil

do not let your judgement fall upon others

wound tight, is something you own, not something I can give to you.

Take it if you want

everyone is different from me, which is to say, I am not like a lot of others


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## Minnewaska

And the troll continues.


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## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> And the troll continues.


Sweet.

In a conversation (albeit on a public forum) I am having a discussion of freedom and fun with another forum poster....

and you decided it needs to be about you.

Sure (go ahead) tell me I am a troll. Not sure why you have several times decided to single me out at your nemesis, ... but thank for making me feel special.

I sincerely want to thank you for amusing me today

irateraft:


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## Minnesail

Oh my gosh you guys.

I'm going to buy a flag of baby kittens, fly it, and post the picture. Just to break up the tension.


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## Bleemus

Read this book and come back and tell us how proud you are of your pirate flag.


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## titustiger27

I read that book about the time this thread started. I don't believe anyone who flies a jolly rogers is actually a cutthroat, but if you read that book, you would have to acknowledge the lifestyle of pirates at that time was not really all that different than of many sailors... unless you were the captain and owned the ship.

In fact, as a pirate you could vote the captain out.

Add to that, and back to, I don't think those who have a skull and bones on a line makes you an evil person (this *has* been discussed btw).

Anymore than being called a troll makes me one.... or that a person who calls someone else names is a bad person.

I am spellbound by this thread that .. (well for the sense of reality,) people who post here saying they like pirate flags are trolls... what is the right way to respond?

I am not sure if this thread has some magic to it and forces people to bring their outrage here... but it is facinating

_anyone mention kitties?_


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## Minnesail

Bleemus said:


> Read this book and come back and tell us how proud you are of your pirate flag.


That's an excellent book. It doesn't affect my feeling towards pirate flags one way or the other.


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## Minnewaska

titustiger27 said:


> .....your post is an example of why we need to express ourselves, in spite of the 'wound tights'


I've called you out, because you are the only one who has decided to call others names, rather than just state your own point of view. You can try to spin that all you like. It's in black and white. It's your quote.


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## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> I've called you out, because you are the only one who has decided to call others names, rather than just state your own point of view. You can try to spin that all you like. It's in black and white. It's your quote.


who
in black and white
is the 'wound tights'

who did I can that evil slur

and for the record, is calling someone *"lame"*
name calling, being judgemental or good nature fun?

I am pulling for fun


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## Minnewaska

Your post referred to all those that disagree with your "expression", which in the context of this thread, is your position that flying a JR is not lame.

Many people have expressed their opinion that the act of flying a pirate flag is lame. I don't recall anyone calling the people that do so lame.

Only you have labeled people.


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## titustiger27

I wear it, I am the judgemental guy who hates people.

So in a thread where I have said live and let live and said don't judge those who enjoy life

and you have referred to people as lame/feeble ... not adequate, I must be a bad guy. 

I guess I am putting too fine a point on it, that you saying people who like a JR are lame, but you really are saying they aren't lame, they are just the kind of person who would do things lame... um okay. 

I certainly have referenced people as being wound tight, mainly because why would anyone care.... if it offends your religion, takes money out of your bank, food from your children, I would see... but I don't

So the reason you continue to single me out is my dislike for mankind, okay. I will wear that too. 

Again, I thank you for showing me the various types of people in the world and how I should take things more seriously, this just won't be one of them. 

Rave on. 

BTW, the fact that you don't fly a jolly rogers and maybe anything that could be considered fun, doesn't make you a bad person... nor does your opinion of those who see a novelty flag as a joie de vie. 

Fact is I think you take things (and a person like me) a tad too seriously, I will wear that too I guess.

I want to go on, but I feel I would be reading into your actions too much.. maybe as much as you seem to be reading into my posts... it would be a mistake on my part, because when it comes to these lifestyle right or wrongs, I am illiterate. and I am no dali lama


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## Bleemus

So you have read the book and realize that most of the people you will meet in the Caribbean are descendents of those that were raped and murdered by pirates yet you proudly fly the flag of their ancestors oppressors. Hope you cruising the Pacific.


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## titustiger27

Sorry I didn't get that. Sorry.

I guess you are giving free range to the slave traders who were not pirate. You are giving free range to those explorers who killed most of the natives who were wiped out

who actually flew this flag

The American Flag and the African Slave-trade. - NYTimes.com










Let me say straight up, lots of things happened under the American flag that people should be really, really embarrassed about. Now I don't think flying the American flag makes your racist, a homophobe or you don't think women should vote.

and let's be TOTALLY clear

Just as if you go on the Pirate of Caribean ride at Disney or one of the movies you are NOT for raping people in the Caribean.

If your point is we must be totally politically correct in the flags.. I suggest you think this one out

edit: if you think a Pirate flag as evil as mankind can be, I get it. If you look at the pirate flag the same way I look at the confederate flag... I already get your point. But just as I know everyone that has a rebel flag... well I hope you get the point.

In our pop culture the Jolly Rogers a more novelty feel to it, but I get it, there were cut throat pirates


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## aeventyr60

So maybe we should fly a Privateer flag? Or a Buccneer., Corsair or the like. All kinds of pirates. Seems to me the ones I meet are white dudes wearing ties in the islands...

Pirates of the Caribbean Pirates Buccaneers, Privateers and Marooners


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## mstern

RobGallagher said:


> I cannot drink rum at work.


"Cannot", or "should not"?


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## RobGallagher

mstern said:


> "Cannot", or "should not"?


Technically I could, at least until the caught me. I should not as I like my job irateraft:.


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## mstern

Then may I suggest:

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/251882067810-0-1/s-l1000.jpg


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## titustiger27

I love drinking --- too much I am sure

but if I could or should drink at work, it would be a downward spiral


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## Minnesail

I just ordered a set of signal flags. If I use them to spell out PIRATE is that lame?


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## dsehl

Minnesail thanks for arguing with titustiger27 - trolls will be trolls, his post didnt even make much sense when he responded to my post which had nothing to do with anyone except the policy of this forum, but alas, back to the pirate flags...

So the guy next to me sold his boat, so I no longer have the jolly roger next to me, maybe I will have to take the helm and raise it up. It is a hoity-toity marina, and the pirate flag was very out of place - in a good way 

Hmmn maybe they make a pirate flag that is crossed between a jimmy buffet martina flag.

-Capt Scurvy


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## Don L

Minnesail said:


> I just ordered a set of signal flags. If I use them to spell out PIRATE is that lame?


For 99+% that would be a secret lame as they wouldn't realize you are lame


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## Minnewaska

As we've discussed many times before (back when this was light hearted and people weren't being called names), the official definition of lame is 'unconvincingly feeble'. What I missed earlier is that the official use of the word is to qualify and excuse or explanation, not an act. Your answer is lame, that description was lame, the reason was lame, etc. Flying a flag can't be lame, by official definition.

However, I then looked up the slang meaning of the term and found, 'not original' or 'not funny'. The example used was "his barbed wire tattoo is lame". Not original or funny. Improper use technically.

I'm going to bet the original poster of this thread was actually using the slang version of lame. Therefore, yes, flying a jolly roger is definitely not original and most don't find it funny. I actually hear that flying it is more a sign of counter culturalism, which is great, but that's still not original or funny. Flying a JR is lame. No one every said you couldn't do it, however. 

This conclusion is simply a reflection on a flying flag, not the entire personality of it's owner. That's very different from being called wound tight, judgemental, not a fun person, etc, which has been the pushback of those that disagree. Just because one tells a joke we've all heard before and didn't think was funny the first time, doesn't mean any person deserves to be labeled. But the joke is still lame (by slang definition).


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## Minnewaska

Pennant flags spelling Pirate. Totally original. Not lame. 

Those that are sensitive to the history of pirates, just like those sensitive to the confederates, will not find it funny and, therefore, to them it will be lame.


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## GeorgeB

… Or these signal flags are indicating that the race committee on board don’t have a clue what they are doing. This is what a racer sees when those flags are displayed:

Prepare to start
Around the end starting rule is in effect
Round the marks in reverse order
Race is postponed until later in the day
Race is twice around the course
Echo division is the next start


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## GeorgeB

…This display will even be more confusing to a bridge crew on a merchant or warship. This is what they see: 

“All crew report on board as vessel is about to proceed to sea”
“I am altering my course to port”
???
“I have a diver in the water”
“Keep clear of me”
“I’m altering my course to starboard”


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## Minnesail

GeorgeB said:


> &#8230; Or these signal flags are indicating that the race committee on board don't have a clue what they are doing. This is what a racer sees when those flags are displayed:
> 
> Prepare to start
> Around the end starting rule is in effect
> Round the marks in reverse order
> Race is postponed until later in the day
> Race is twice around the course
> Echo division is the next start


Bwaaaa haaa haaaa!

My flags showed up last night and I'm headed to the boat tomorrow. I think the first thing I'll fly is:





















> I am abandoning my vessel which has suffered a nuclear accident and is a possible source of radiation danger.


----------



## GeorgeB

Minnesail-
"Diver in the water"
"Keep clear of me, I'm having difficulty maneuvering"

What's the problem, having problems running down your diver?


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## ImASonOfaSailor

:ship-captain:I just got a Mohawk, I am 47 years old but i am 5 inside! Do i care if it is High and tight! I don't care I am flying what i want, not everyone is going to like my haircut, but it makes me feel good! I sail a catamaran too no one likes them either!


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## Minnesail

And yes, one joker did sail by and ask if I was the committee boat.


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## Bene505

Pirate flag thread..... Still.... going.....

People. Fly whatever you want to fly! Just go out and do it.



Regards,
Brad


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## ImASonOfaSailor

I too can not believe this post has 150 Pages! Raise that Jolly, and those Dacron sails and think of me out at sea!!


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## Minnesail

I lost the "P" from my signal flags overboard, so now if I try to spell PIRATE like I did above, it'll just read IRATE.

That makes me irate.


----------



## titustiger27

Irate
or Irie

flying a Pirate Flag is irie


----------



## Sal Paradise

"Red over red, Captain's dead."


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## Don L

Brown brown, run aground

Afterwards put your pirate flag up to warn away others


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## Minnesail

Here's what happens to sailors who fly pirate flags:
Check out what big waves did to this 40-foot 'pirate' ship


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## boatsurgeon

ImASonOfaSailor said:


> I too can not believe this post has 150 Pages! Raise that Jolly, and those Dacron sails and think of me out at sea!!


Yup, thread could have ended with post #2 = "Yup"


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## SeaStar58

Zombie thread that never died?

Around here its acceptable during Gasparilla which is on January 29th (last Saturday in January) however you can show your support from mid January through early March or to show your loyalty to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Gasparilla:









Tampa Bay Buccaneers:









https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasparilla_Pirate_Festival


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## Minnesail

SeaStar58 said:


> Around here its acceptable during Gasparilla which is on January 29th (last Saturday in January) however you can show your support from mid January through early March or to show your loyalty to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.


Do you know how much corn costs in Tampa Bay?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
A buck an ear.

Thank you both for coming. I'm here all week folks, tell your friends. Don't forget to tip your server.


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