# Can somebody figure out my PHRF



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hello
can somebody tellme what Phrf my boat would be .... 
We sail without Spinnaker. 
here are all the numbers you might need. 
I leave the outboard on the boat, but tilt it up of course.

http://www.thorusa.com/sailing3.htm

Of course I know that the phrf is a little variable from region to region. Maybe out of this reason, please include some "regular" boats and their respective phref 


Thanks 
Thorsten

p.s. right now I have 278 ... but I really would like to know, if that figure is to low or to high ...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Maybe someone out there can calculate from the numbers, but it''s easier to work from a base rating.

From the site it looks like a "Wega 24"? The place I usually look for base ratings (www.phrfne.org/baseh.htm) doesn''t list this particular boat.

From looking at boats in the 22-25 ft range, 278 does not seem unreasonable for a boat similar to yours.

As an FYI, I don''t know how close these actually are to your boat but here are some examples:

Cape Dory 22: 282
Cape Dory 25: 261
Pearson 24: 252
Bristol 24 Corsair: 276

The only really accurate way to know for sure is to apply for a PHRF certificate for the boat from your local organization. Let the comittee scratch their heads over it. Around here it''s about $35 for one, and it''s required before doing pretty much any race.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

First of all, there is no way to really give you a rating for a non-class boat and for your region. There are a variety of dimensions that you will need to get a rating, Length overall, Length at waterline, Beam, and ballast weight. PHRF has its own defined method of measuring these dimensions so you will need to download a PHRF Certificate Application for your region which will explain how to measure the various required measurements. The applciation fee is pretty cheap and will result in a real rating. 

Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi Jeff..
just read that you owned a Folkeboat some years ago... go to the weebsite above. You gonna love my boat.. 

Reason for me to ask the question : 
I have filled out a local racing declaration and received the current 278 Phref. My boat is the ONLY one in the US and Canada. Although still built in Germany today ( under the BIGA name ) they are VERY expensive New and usually not raced in Germany either. 

I re-started sailing last year ( after missing 30 years ) and my competitive spirit has led to imediately started racing. 
The boat performs wonderful and me the skipper is learning as well ( much slower than I like ) to sail faster. With such a steep learning curve ( from NOWHERE to barely finding the course, lol ) my wife and me are getting better by almost every race. 

Now the inevitable is going to happen... I am nipping at the top performers heels, and than ....eventually the question will come up, if my Phref is too high. 
Thats why I would like to get a little anmunition ,,, just to be prepared, if the discussion comes up.

The boat has a little keel ( almost 2 foot draft ) with a steel centerboard, which swings backward. I would guess that there might be 400 lbs lead in the keel. THIS IS A WILD GUESS... The boat is 23.5 long Waterline maybe 21 ??? .... 
It doesnt fit into a container, because the container has those reinforced sides at the doors, which lets me to belief that it is somewhat close to 8 foot wide... 


Thanks for all your help.. 

Thorsten
ps. I really enjoy Jeff''s posts here, Thanks


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Thanks for the kind words. I did visit your site and she looks like a neat boat.

Off the top of my head you are looking at a heavier weight 24 foot trailerable. It should probably rate something where in the range of boats like a Morgan 24 (234 to 245 range) Pacific Dolphin (254) or Bristol Corsair (278). It is very hard to really peg a boat like this without actually having more information. Besides I am not a handicapper. 

Regards,
Jeff


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

A couple more thoughts here, there is a real problem with handicapping boats like yours. If you compare more traditional designs to more modern designs, modern designs have a big speed advantage in light air where their lighter weight and bigger sail plans really keep them moving and allow them to sail from gust to gust so that, with a little skill, they sail in more wind more of the time. They often have a real advantage in heavier air as well, where their easily driven hulls and ability to depower quickly allow modern boats to go upwind very and with less leeway and to then power off surfing and planning down wind. So at the extremes they have an obvious speed advantage over more traditional craft. But when you look at how PHRF ratings work, the rating is really about the prevailing winds in the region and that usually means 8 to 12 knots of air. In those conditions Modern boats really do not have such a big speed advantage, so in theory their ratings should be closer to a more traditional boat based on those conditions than perhaps common sense would normally suggest. 

Here is where the art of handicapping comes into play. Handiacappers will often raise the ratings on more traditional boats to give them half a chance closer to the extremes. If you have a season with the actual average winds this helps a traditional boat do well, But if you have a season where the majority of the winds are at the extremes then it gets quite difficult for a traditional boat to hold its own. I am speculating that your rating was juiced a bit and that you have been doing well in small part because of that. Its rare that a rating change of 6 to 9 seconds or so will affect a boats place of finish on short courses in light conditions, but in heavier going or longer races this can really add up to a win or loss. 

Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

You are 99.9 % correct with your post ( as usual I might add ) 
In stiff winds I dont have a chance same if it is like 2 and below ... In the "middle" I think I am doing fine. 
I need a 4.59 hour long race with all boats just sitting there and than the last 30 minutes ( after everybody just barely made it over the finish line ) a nice 5-7 knots of wind...lol Than I will kick their butts.

Seems that most of our races on Carlile Lake ( Illinois ) are in the low wind range. Therefor I bought me a big fat assymetrical spinnaker. Seems that the perf gets down only 8 points with an assymetrical ( 15 with a real one ) and I hope this thing makes the boat move a little faster in light winds, so the other guys with their huge kevlar headsails are not sneaking away anymore...

cant wait to race the old boat again 
wish me luck ( I desperately need it ) 

Thanks for all the comments ...

Thorsten


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