# US Yacht 25' - Are they as bad as they say?



## TSOJOURNER

Hi,

I'm getting ready to purchase a 25' US Yacht for $2500, but I recently read that they are built from the molds once used for Bayliner boats. Apparently Bayliner sold the design to Pearson, who built a few boats and then they sold it to US Yacht who used it for a few years in the early 80's. The boat I'm looking at seems pretty decent, and has everything I'm looking for (except headroom). It seems well built and solid, it has a split backstay, in mast halyards, in boom outhaul, cockpit forward traveler, Lewmar winches, an enclosed head, operable portholes, a decent sail inventory, etc.

I don't plan on having a survey done, as I don't think it's worth paying 20% of the boats purchase price to have someone tell me what I already know. I've gone over every inch and I haven't found any issues. No water penetration, no loose hardware, no chain plate problems, (teak bulkheads), no soft spots, nothing really stands out. All in all it appears to be a decent little boat, which makes me wonder why everyone I've talked to says they are pieces of junk. Has anyone owned or been intimate with one of these?

This picture is not the actually boat, but exactly like it.

US 25


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## blt2ski

THAT pic is not a pic of a typicaly Bayliner that most of us know about. In reality, that boat looks like a decent designed and sailable boat. The bayliners that I know about in that range would have a deck another 1-2' higher and another row of windows.

I also do not recall any problems with some of the US Yacht boats built. Yes a spin off of Bayliner, that did go BK in the 80's, but a lot of BB's did that do to the recession at the time, including Cal, O'Day, Islander, Erickson etc that built nice boats.

Marty


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## camaraderie

Some owner reviews here:
http://www.sailboatowners.com/reviews/revread.tpl?fno=499.93&id=11837863117890830

Sounds like it is not put together any better than the Bayliner though it looks better.


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## TSOJOURNER

Excellent, thanks camaraderie, that was some good info. Now I don't know what to do...


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## Faster

I sailed on one of these years ago - very small cockpit since they try to cram some accomodation into a smallish hull. Decent performance for a small boat, though.

It is actually a Gary Mull design - which is a good thing - but of concern, for example, was that fact that the main bulkhead was not tabbed into the hull. I can recall seeing light between the hull liner and the bulkhead edge.

The US 22 and 25 were Mull, the Buccaneer 295/US30 and 33 were Doug Peterson designs - decent pedigrees but reputedly poor execution.

But at least from a design point of view they were leaps ahead of the infamous Buccaneers that most associate with the name (and Bayliner).


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## TSOJOURNER

> Has anyone owned or been intimate with one of these?


Uhmm - no - we don't cotton to that kind of thing in Canada. A vacuum cleaner maybe, but a sailboat ??? That's just wrong


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## TSOJOURNER

*Not a Bayliner Buccaneer*

Have you ever heard of a US Yacht with blisters? I know of expensive boats 2-3 years old with them. That says alot about these 25+ year old boats! They aren
't tanks like the Buccs, but they aren't all that sluggish either...

Brian
US30 Wu-Wei


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## camaraderie

What 2-3 year old boats have you seen with blisters? Brand names please!!


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## TSOJOURNER

*us 25*

I just recently bought a US 25 and I love it! The cockpit is a bit cramped and the tiller seems a little long, and getting to the outboard can be an adventure but over all I think she is a fine craft and I look forward to many happy years at the helm!
How ever I have found it very difficult to locate much info on this model....any help would be appreciated!


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## tommays

The issue is what you cant SEE 

Which would be all the wood stringers that have a high ROT rate i am sure sailnet member US27inKS can give you expert advise on were to check as he did a COMPLETE rebuild of a 27'


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## tager

When are manufacturers going to start using trex decking in place of wood?


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## seadog52

The orginal Bayliner 25 was a boat to stay away from. It was designed with to little of a sail area, too much freeboard with little if any input from a sailing aspect of boating being developed by the powerboat manufacturer. The US 25 however is quite different. I owned one and outsailed alot of 25ft buidlt by others and gave more room than most. The teck sole was a nice added. I wished I had gone with the US29, since the head room was missing.
The quality was good. Hope you are enjoying


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## GraemeInCanada

I have a US25 and it's great. There are quite a few threads on this forum with both sides speaking out, but I say to make sure to listen to those that own them and sail them regularly. Very well balanced boat with a good amount of space inside and out for it's size. 

As for the tiller issue, I replaced my wine with a shorter one made out of hazelnut wood. I thought it was too long too. 

Agreed on the headroom, just a few more inches in height would be nice.


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## seadog52

*Us25*



GraemeInCanada said:


> I have a US25 and it's great. There are quite a few threads on this forum with both sides speaking out, but I say to make sure to listen to those that own them and sail them regularly. Very well balanced boat with a good amount of space inside and out for it's size.
> 
> As for the tiller issue, I replaced my wine with a shorter one made out of hazelnut wood. I thought it was too long too.
> 
> Agreed on the headroom, just a few more inches in height would be nice.


I owned a US 25 back when they were being made. As the the tiller, I also made it shorter and added a extension to it. I used the existing tiller, and cut the end , rounded and revarished it and put tiller cover on it.
I tested one with a buidlt in engine, and it was great for handling since the prop was in front of the rudder.
|Have a great long weekend.


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## j3anph1l1dd3

theres a 78 bucanneer 25ft asking 4 grand near where i live. Just FYI, i live in montreal but i'm currently visting my parents in Alabama.
heres the link:

BUCCANEER - Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu Voiliers à vendre - Kijiji Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu

What do you think about this one?


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## PaulinVictoria

Wow


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## Dog Ship

PaulinVictoria said:


> Wow


No kidding, but he is leaving for a month.:laugher


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## SHNOOL

The US Yachts were actually decent built boats. They weren't fast, but they were decent cruisers. Things to look for are bulkheads being rotted, as well as the teak/holly sole will be trashed. The windows leaked (like everything 30+ years old). They do sail quite well, and the fin keel model will hold up in a blow like nobody's business. They aren't pointing machines, but who cares its a $2500 sailboat.

If the bulkheads are good, the chainplates are good, standing rigging is passable. Mast straight and all hardware still present... You're 99% there. Other thing to check is the rudder post, these wobble (not a big deal), but you'll have to shim it to keep it from dropping the rudder. Not unusual to hear of the rudders falling out, again, take some precautions and you'll be fine.

My father bought a brand new US 27 in 1981 (I was his crew). It was a HELLUVA boat. We sailed it on Lake Norman, NC for 4 years, then moved it to NJ and sailed it on Barnegat. We actually raced it a lot, lost lots... We only ever placed when the winds were 30+ sustained, and a water spout formed on the lake.

As for the US 25? My brother owned one for 10+ years (just sold it about 4 years ago)... Windows leaked like a strainer. Sailed it like mad though. They go over quick, then harden up nicely about 20 degrees. Trick to get them moving is a decent sized genoa. On the 27 we had a 170 we used up until the winds his 20+, on the 25 my brother never had more than a 110, and because of it, spent many a hot day with light winds going very slow. These are masthead rigs with blade mains, again headsail is the key.

If you want any more information feel free to PM me.


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## LandLocked66c

Hilarious...


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## Dog Ship

I can see why this guy has been banned from other forums, his internet cojones' keep getting in the way.


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## SloopJonB

Did he say when that month starts?


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## SlowButSteady

Attitude is everything........well, at least for some folks.


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## SHNOOL

Upkeep is the deal (the windows leak, like in my Capri 25, and my Capri 22, at 30+ yeras the seals/windows crack and leak, duh)...as for kenneth... well, I think he stands out as a colossal waste of electrons, other than that... who cares? 

The OP asked a question are they horribly built as has been said. They aren't any worse than, a Catalina, or a Hunter, or a MacGregor, evidence is they are still being sailed 30 years later, and they were a production boat. They have their issues, as they all do.

My personal experience with the 27, and the 25 is they are tough boats, sail well, but aren't going to set the water on fire with speed. With that they are big for their size (cruiser class). The US Yacht brand is slightly different than the Buccaneer or Bayliner models, they are arguably lighter, and less ugly, and generally better laid out.


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## SloopJonB

SHNOOL said:


> Upkeep is the deal (the windows leak, like in my Capri 25, and my Capri 22, at 30+ yeras the seals/windows crack and leak, duh)...as for kenneth... well, I think he stands out as a colossal waste of electrons, other than that... who cares?
> 
> The OP asked a question are they horribly built as has been said. They aren't any worse than, a Catalina, or a Hunter, or a MacGregor, evidence is they are still being sailed 30 years later, and they were a production boat. They have their issues, as they all do.
> 
> My personal experience with the 27, and the 25 is they are tough boats, sail well, but aren't going to set the water on fire with speed. With that they are big for their size (cruiser class). The US Yacht brand is slightly different than the Buccaneer or Bayliner models, they are arguably lighter, and less ugly, and generally better laid out.


US Yacht was merely a division of Bayliner wasn't it?


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## SHNOOL

Yes but when they were Us yacht the topsides and lines changed sugnificantly as I understand it they eventually became the Triton molds before they were (are) abandoned. Yep I understand the molds still exist.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## cousineddy

Hi. I thought I have a US25, but now I think its a Buccaneer 255. Its a 1979 model and US yachts didnt take over til 1981. Plus it has a Volvo sail drive 50s 7.5 hp. None of the US yachts seem to have one, or Buccaneer 250s. I found the specs on the 255, but no pics. Its all is the same as the US 25 and Buc 250 except it weighs 4100 instead of 3750, and the spec said 3.5 ft draft but mine has a deep keel. I was wondering where the extra weight comes from? The sail drive weighs under 70 lbs. Does anyone know about these Buccaneer 255s. I dont think there are that many of them.


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## SHNOOL

I cant speak of the exact model but the Buccaneers as I recall had taller topsides than the US line. I'm betting this is where the weight difference is. Keep in mind those weights are "average" as with all boats and can vary as much as 20% within the production. The buccs and bayliners may have been the same hulls but the layouts and decks were different. As also said the topsides were taller on the older models.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## cousineddy

Ok, i found a magazine ad for the 1979 buccaneer 250. Go figure? Its sister ship is the 255 and comes with an inboard. Extra weight must be from fuels tank, exhaust, blower, and stuff like that. The 250 weighs 3750, just like the us yachts version. If you got the optional galley, then the cabin is layed out like the Us 25. Mystery solved


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## Marcel D

Looks like a nice boat I would go for it. Have you looked at any San Juans same year nice boat as well, Or a Captive 240 fast but tender and a nice interior as well.


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## Bucc25

I have a us 25 as well, it looks identical to your pic, a tiller instead of a wheel. Personally I find it easy and fun to sail.IMHO all boats have drawbacks, the 25 has a small cockpit and high freeboard. I have had hours of fun working on it and sailing it, most people like the lines of the boat, a nice look. I bought mine for about the same price,sails, motor included. For $2500 you can't go wrong.


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## guitarguy56

Just saw this post... great post about our little yachts... I too have a US-25 and we both (my son and I) love it... sails great, simple and easy to keep.

We did some upgrades like microwave, induction stove, fresh water hookup, new cushions/foam, new counter top, and now contemplating removing the mouse hair covering and installing marine vinyl...










She has a new Suzuki 8hp extra long shaft outboard and the combination works great.

Enjoy... naysayers of these boats know not what they say...


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## Sailormon6

I agree. I crewed on a friend's US Yacht 25 many times. It sailed very well, was dry and nothing broke. I wouldn't cross an ocean on it, or most other 25' production boats for that matter, but it was a good lake and coastal racer/cruiser. Enjoy!


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## Bucc25

Thanks for your reply, it is really cool to talk with another owner who likes it. Your boat looks great, I need to replace my oval porthole windows, the white looks great. I have a 9.9 Johnson that came with the boat, I put $600 into a tune up and new throttle cables. In hindsight a new one would have been great, but it works well, lots of power. The previous owner had planned to convert the cabin into his own design and gutted original stuff. My wife made cushions, I made a floor from plywood and covered it with carpet. I stuff my sails into the v berth, the cabin I use for storage only. I will get a pic and show you what it looks like.


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## guitarguy56

Bucc... Thanks... The condition of the boat was in great shape but the interior was tired looking especially the cushions... everything else was the usual maintenance issues 'all' boats have... I started sanding all the varnish from the sole as seen in the photo and it's all stripped and ready for several coats of varnish but have teak oil on the sole to keep water stains from discoloring the wood... other than the mouse hair as seen in the photo I plan on making vinyl headliners/vinyl sides to cover the multitude of screws and bolts protruding the deck... might lose 1/2" of headroom but I can live with that... My biggest joy was getting rid of the Origo stove and adding the induction stove thereby getting rid of any fire sources... adding a shower would be nice but not really necessary if there are marina facilities... here is the starboard cushions I made.










There is a website for our US Yachts by one of the former Sailnet members but it is inactive for some time since he and his wife are in Japan.


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## Tom J boat

I had a 1983 US 25. It sailed okay was easy to handle. It got to a point I could not keep it tuned up when it would rain it would leak lots of water in portholes and chain plates the deck was starting to rot and I suspect most of them have the same problems. But I guess being a 39 year old boat things like that would be expected. Being as old as they are now I would not buy one.


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## cousineddy

They actually hold up well to age. The windows will need replacement, may have soft spots on the deck, check the keel bolts, but the hull is solid composite, no balsa core to rot. Typical problems for boats this old. Its still structurally sound. And never any blisters on the hull.

Many of these have a smooth and quiet Volvo Penta saildrive inboard which is nice, if its still running.

I used mine for PHRF racing. The boat is really good upwind. Could stay with J24s, Merrit 25s until the windward mark. Not as great on the reaches unless you have an over sized spinnaker.


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## joethecobbler

Lots of confusion around these boats.
Lots of misinformation being spread.
Bayliner corporation utilized other manufacturers molds and designs though the years on the 30' and under models.
The over 30'(320,325) were manufactured in Washington State and were designed by William Garden, if you're familiar with his designs, it's apparent.
The 320 I purchased for $1500 in 2006 is still carrying me up and down the east coast USA, it's a sailing motorhome!
Center cockpit,6' headroom,2 heads, Etc.
It's shoal draft,short rigged and tender in comparison to others,but it sails the same waters as the more pedigreed much more expensive vessels.
I've enjoyed it greatly.


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