# Catalina 27: Tiller or wheel? Inboard or outboard?



## 7tiger7 (May 30, 2006)

On a Catalina 27, which of these options are better? Pro's, cons?

Tiller or wheel?

Inboard or outboard?

Thanks very much!


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## Gene T (May 23, 2006)

Tiller for a boat that small, fun and responsive. Tiller flips up out of the way when at anchor giving you a more usable cockpit. 

Inboard would be my preference unless you are in protected waters. Waves will cause an outboard to come out of the water. Pros and cons with this. A good inboard will be nice, a bad one expensive. Outboard easy to replace. How much will you motor?


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

I agree completely with Gene T above. Tillers rock on anything below about 32'. Much better "feel".

Outboard v inboard, a tossup. Ease of repair/replacement versus having a shaft and prop down deep in the water and putting flow over your rudder, at least while going ahead. In predominantly flat water conditions (lakes, bays, and sounds) go outboard, for more blue-water conditions, favor the inboard.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

7tiger7 said:


> On a Catalina 27, which of these options are better? Pro's, cons?
> 
> Tiller or wheel?


On a 27' boat: Tiller, without question. The cockpit on a 27' is going to be far too small for a wheel. Plus you won't get the feel of the boat nearly as well from a wheel as you will a tiller.

IM*H*O: Anything under 32' feet is best with a tiller. Around 32' - 34': Could go either way. For cruising, a wheel would probably be less tiring. For pure sailing enjoyment: A tiller might be more fun. 36' and above, you probably want a wheel. (See caveat below.)



7tiger7 said:


> Inboard or outboard?


Coffee or tea? 

Seriously: "It depends." A long-shaft outboard is perfectly capable of driving a Cat 27 to-and-from a days sailing. It has the advantage of easy maintenance and easy replacement. You can raise it up, getting the prop entirely out of the water, for slightly better speed under sail. OTOH: It might not fare as well in following seas, it won't have near the battery-charging capability, and it'll be a bit noisier.

For racing: Outboard. For cruising: I prefer inboard.



7tiger7 said:


> Thanks very much!


You're welcome.

Now, the caveats: I don't currently own a boat. Nor have I sailed in the last 25 years, other than crewing on one race (on a Cat 27, in fact, with tiller and outboard), a couple weeks ago. However I _have_ been looking at boats for a month and reading voraciously. The point being: My tiller vs. wheel opinions, in particular, represent numbers I more-or-less pulled out of my... er... family forum... right... pulled out of the air .

Jim


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## 7tiger7 (May 30, 2006)

Thanks for the opinions guys.
I personally prefer the inboard / wheel set up. Inboard because I then have a better way of charging batteries, I think it gives the boat cleaner lines.

Wheel... well, part of me wants a wheel because while under sail, I won't be knocking a tiller into everyone's legs in the cockpit. Yes, while at anchor I can swing it up - but a wheel while underway doesn't take much space and knock into people's knees.

Hmmm...


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

I agree with Gene T and nolatom. A tiller and inboard diesel would be my choice. Another advantage of the diesel is the much better fuel economy compared to a gas outboard. I use between 1/4 and 1/3 of a gallon per hour when motoring my 30 foot CAL at 5 knots. My previous Peason 26 with outboard would use almost a gallon per hour. Cost aside, it means you aren't looking for fuel every couple of days when cruising.


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## leffklm (Apr 9, 2007)

I've sailed a Cat27 with the wheel and inboard combo (coastal waters), and I absolutely loved the boat. The inboard is definitely my preference over an outboard, especially if you have any kind of electrical system and batteries (I also agree that the lines are much better on a boat with an inboard). I could go either way on the wheel vs. tiller. The wheel is easier to lock down on long tacks, but it isn't as responsive and it does crowd the cockpit. Having said that, we were on the boat with five people in the cockpit, and it wasn't too bad, even with the wheel taking up a bunch of space. 

Regards,

Leff


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## Northbeach (Jan 1, 2007)

I have a 24 footer that I have enjoyed for the last 3 years. However I would make a few changes if I were to do it again. Your question addresses the two changes I will be making fist. First change; I would get an inboard not the outboard. The outboard hangs off the stern placing more weight further aft further accentuating the heavy aft heavy tendency in smaller boats; most of the time most of the weight is accumulated in the stern of the boat. Others have said it and they are right, when it gets choppy the outboard comes up out of the water. And, if you have somebody on the bow helping you dock it can raise the prop close enough to the surface to make it loose efficiency.
Second change; I would opt for the steering wheel over the tiller. I hear people talk about the “feel” of the tiller providing a superior experience. Perhaps, but the tiller takes up too much room in the limited space available. It is usually in the way, banging into somebody or necessitating a move on somebody’s part.
The down side of my choices would be the increased complexity and maintenance requirements of a steering system over a simple tiller. The same would apply to an inboard engine over the typical outboard hung on the stern. Recognizing those shortcomings I will still make those two changes when I purchase my next sail boat. My vote: steering wheel and inboard.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Basically, the inboard is going to be a better choice as a powerplant, but the outboard leaves you with more room and storage space in the boat. If you're a sailing purist, and will not motor much, and plan on taking longer voyages in your boat, it might make more sense to get an outboard-equipped model.

The tiller is definitely the way to go—much better than a wheel—simpler, takes up less space when at anchor, and more reliable.


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## saurav16 (Mar 22, 2007)

*I have a catalina 27*

I have a catalina 27 with a tiller. I really wanted a wheel but honestly the cockpit is small enough as is. I cannot imagine a wheel in that space. To get around the wheel you would have to step over the lazerette. I have one with a diesel inboard. It is reliable and good. I would for the diesel if you can. If you are buying a catalina 30 then go for the wheel (most I have seen have them anyway). THe previous posters are right you can feel the boat much better with the tiller.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Re: Wheel vs. tiller: The other thing you might wish to consider is whether or not you're going to want to be able to single-hand the boat. Most boats _I've_ seen with a wheel put it at the back of the cockpit. I suppose this makes sense from a helmsman's comfort standpoint, but it places the helmsman out-of-reach of the foresail winches and, even if the halyards are led back, out of reach of those, too. Some designs I've seen compound the problem by putting the mainsheet traveler atop the cabin, thus putting _that_ out-of-reach for the helmsman, as well.

The only boat with a wheel I've seen so far that looked like it lent itself well to single-handing was the Pearson 10M. On that boat they placed the mainsheet traveler just behind the companionway entrance and the wheel just behind that. I like that design.

This may not seem immediately important, but consider: If you're sailing short-handed, as my wife and I will almost certainly nearly always be doing, and one crew-member becomes injured or falls ill, the other may have to do it on their own. Or what about a MOB situation?

Jim


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Jim's got a very good point. It is easier to rig a tiller lock of some sort than to rig a wheel lock—so you can leave the helm unattended for a short period of time. Also, you can always use a tiller extension—which is not an option on a wheel-steered boat.


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## Trescool (Jul 7, 2007)

I hear the downfalls of a wheel. Ignoring the space issue and talking about the handling of sails, would an autohelm eliminate that downfall of not being able to control the sails from so far back?

Just wondering... Tres


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

*singlehand with a wheel*

Hello,

I love to sail by myself, and I hate tillers. My last boat had an autopilot,
my new boat does to. The AP makes single handing very easy.

The AP on my last boat was very reliable and could steer in any weather
I would sail in (I am a fair weather sailer). On my new boat, the belt
is slipping, so the AP is not as reliable as I need it to be. I will try a new
belt to see if that corrects the problem (the belt tension is correct).

Even without the AP, I can lock the wheel with the wheel brake, and
that works well enough to make a sail trim change, etc. Finally, when
my boat is properly balanced, I can lock the wheel and she will stay
on course for a long time without any helm corrections.

Barry


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

After borrowing a buddies 27 Catalina Id have to say that despite loosing some feel, id go wheel (his has a tiller). There is just no room in the cockpit with a tiller. Also it has an A4 in it. Nice engine but there is no way to get to anything on it. Prolly going aganst the flow here but Id say wheel and outboard.


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## augbug27 (May 31, 2007)

I have a Ranger 26 and before I bought it I was seriously considering a Catalina 27 and would have to go with a wheel. Lots of people are saying that a tiller is better and I agree with everyone completely, better feel but on my boat after being violated or violating someone else with the tiller a few times in rough weather while adjusting the jib sheets I would love to have a wheel.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

nolatom said:


> I agree completely with Gene T above. Tillers rock on anything below about 32'. Much better "feel".
> 
> Outboard v inboard, a tossup. Ease of repair/replacement versus having a shaft and prop down deep in the water and putting flow over your rudder, at least while going ahead. In predominantly flat water conditions (lakes, bays, and sounds) go outboard, for more blue-water conditions, favor the inboard.


Depends on the inboard and the access to same, but I would favour the tiller/inboard combo, because the tiller puts the single-hander forward to deal with the main (steer with your knees), gives a short cockpit much more usable space when at dock or anchor, has far better "feel", puts less inaccessible steering gear and associated weight in the stern...well, let's say I like tillers.

Same with outboards...a lot of weight off the transom makes for drag unless you are religious (and some are) about removing it and lashing it to the mast below decks. An inboard gives greater range and provides power via a proper alternator, but can suffer in a small boat if the ventilation and access isn't planned properly. Generally, unless you intend to do a lot of cruising, I would say go for the smallest, simplest diesel you can...a 27 footer needs no more than 12 or 15 HP, max.


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## Jotun (May 4, 2006)

I have a C-27 with a wheel/inboard and I love it. Sure, you get more feel with the tiller, but the wheel is fun and takes away some of the big-boat envy. Someone earlier said if going with the inboard make sure it is a good inboard. I second that opinion. If you buy a boat with a bum engine you bought a major project and not a boat!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I've got a Cat27 with an outboard. The ease of lifting it out of the water and its lightness do NOT make up for the headache of trying to keep it submerged in waves. I've replaced the impeller once already because it was sucking so much air between crests. Sounds like you've already decided to go this way anyway, but thought I'd add my two cents in case you're having any doubts.

Tiller and inboard.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Hype...and you were thinking of going down the coast with an outboard??


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Yes, but I've been shown the error of my ways.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Good...wouldn't want to lose our favorite Harpie around here! (G)


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

One thing I didn't see mentioned is that boats with Edson wheels have the option of buying a knurled locking nut for easy removal at the dock or anchor. My previous c320 had a large cockpit but also a very large wheel so I took it off and bungied it to the life lines because it Was in the way.


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## 7tiger7 (May 30, 2006)

Hi Guys - 
Well I bit the bullet and bought a 27' Catalina, with a Yanmar 16hp diesel inboard, and tiller. Now just need to launch her and get her back to Boston. If anyone is free this weekend (Saturday 14th) and wants to sail from Newburyport to Boston - let me know.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

7tiger7-

Congratulations... you did get a survey and seatrial of the boat? Right??


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## TAK (Jul 14, 2003)

I had an 85' Catalina 27, inboard diesel and wheel .. 
liked the diesel for several reasons.. charging primarly - also if you plan on moving up to larger boat one day its a good size to start learning on maintaining, mechanics etc..

mixed on the wheel.. I missed the feel / response of the tiller, did not like the space it required in the cockpit and easier to back in with a tiller but enjoyed the simplicity of steering the wheel. Much easier to kick back a enjoy the sail. 

All said tho I suspect the Wheel would be slightly more popular in a re-sale.


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## max-on (Mar 30, 2004)

Congrats 7tiger7 on the purchase, I think you will be happy with the decision to go with the inboard and tiller.


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

And dont forget tiller pilots are a lot cheeper than a wheel pilot.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Congrats! You will really enjoy her!! 
Bring several extra fuel filters on your trip and make sure you know how to change 'em and bleed the engine before you go!! Countless first trips end up in a tow cause diesel sitting in tanks for a long time gets really gnarly with condensation and algae growth. Once the boat starts getting rocked around at sea...it end up as a fuel line clog.


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

Pros for wheel...steers loke a car, most have twist locks, less swing space.
Cons against wheel.... more to break.
Pros for tiller.....better feel, easier to steer backing up (Point the tiller like an arrow).
Cons against tiller...steers opposite, swing space needed


Pros for inboard... battery charging system, out of the way.
Cons against inboard....3more holes in the boat, more complex, maintenance.
Pros for outboard... simple
Cons against outboard.... gasoline, inefective in poor conditions,poor battery chargers

pigslo


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