# Trailer sailer



## bcbrad (Oct 26, 2013)

First off let me state this is my first post and I have zero sailing exp. Me and my wife (mostly me) are looking at getting into sailing as I belive it will be one of the most most peaceful things to do. I was wondering if the sailing community could assit me in finding the right boat for us with our requirements. 

1. Own a jeep that can pull 3500 lbs
2. Must be safe as wife is scared of the water 
3. Can be operated mostly by one person
4. Decent interior for few days to a week stay
5. We plan to tow in and out after each excursion, for money saving reasons.
6. Hoping for 24-27 foot range 
7. Safe sailing for stright of Georgia area

Our main usage based on our lifestyle would be going to a island tossing a anchor out and staying a few nights just to enjoy mother earth. I dont need the fastest or most shinny, a good interior and peace of mind that the boats safe is our goal. Another side question too..been seening a few sailboats with 50+ hp on the back .. is this a good thing for safety reason or would I feel just as safe on a boat with a 9.9 ? Again looking to sail not ski, but if its a safe thing to have for just incase moments ill get it.


Thanks so much in advance 
Brad


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

_1. Own a jeep that can pull 3500 lbs _
Many trailer sailers are around 2,000 lbs.

_2. Must be safe as wife is scared of the water_
Nothing will quell her fear, if she cannot at least learn basics you could be the one to fall overboard and she would watch you drown.

_3. Can be operated mostly by one person_
It's called "single handing" and it's really not rocket science.

_4. Decent interior for few days to a week stay_
Not may trailer-able boats are comfortable enough for more then a few days unless you really like roughing it.

_5. We plan to tow in and out after each excursion, for money saving reasons._
rigging and de-rigging are time consuming.

_6. Hoping for 24-27 foot range_
are on the big end for towing. (may need a stronger vehicle)

_7. Safe sailing for stright of Georgia area. _
where you sail is more about ability then the boat.

50hp outboard on a sailboat, is most likely "motor sailer" boats like Mac26

Most smaller outboard sailboats are "displacement hulled" and can only do maybe 5-7 mph or knots

If you cannot stand upright inside a boat.. staying on it in less then ideal weather is boring and cramped.


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## bcbrad (Oct 26, 2013)

So the only boat name I heard is mac26..is that the recommendation ? And yes my spouse is nervous of the water but I belive this to be a good thing...as soon as you lose respect you get cought with your pants down looking like a dumba**. Im hoping to hear of a few brands to suit these needs im aware there are lots of boats out there but im hoping to find the right one for us.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

No. Mac = McGregor motor sailers are a love hate thing. Not a true sailboat not a true power boat. But they have a cult like group of owners that love them.

Most people starting out with trailer sail boats will go for boats in the 18-23 ft range. I had a hunter 23 but sold in in less then a year because it made me realize I wanted larger. much larger. 

I would suggest you get some sailing time on rented boats, or find a club or make friends with people that own a sailboat. wants are very very different then needs when it comes to boats. 

Get some basics on sailing books and check out the millions of vids on youtube on how to sail. how to rig, tow, etc a boat. 

Catlaina, Hunter, Precision, Pearson, are some.. there many others. new and old out there. 
fixed keel and centerboard or swing keel boats.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Denise has given you very good advice; go back and read her responses carefully. They are deceptively short, but almost all are dead on. The only issue I have is with the weight she suggested. I had a Catalina 25 with the swing keel. The boat's dry weight was something like 4000 lbs. Add on the trailer, and you're looking at about 5000 lbs. Tack on an engine, water, fuel, gear, etc., and you're at least at 5500, possibly closer to 6000 lbs.

According to CATALINA 22 CB sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com, even the Catalina 22 is 2250 lbs. Tack on 600-800 lbs for the trailer, plus gear, engine etc., and you're exceeding the capability of your tow vehicle.

The MacGregor 22 (MACGREGOR 22 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com) might be towable by your jeep.

All that being said, none of those would be my first choice (and, again, I owned a C25) for a week-long trip. None will offer standing headroom except if a "pop-top" is engaged.

Again, I agree with all the other points Denise raised, too.


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## CatMan22 (Apr 16, 2012)

There's a lot of boats that fit what you want to do, however as Dense said, 24 - 27 are on the big end for towing with the vehicle you have. I think ideally you should be looking in the 20 - 22 foot range, something with a swing keel and a pop top, such as a Catalina 22, MacGregor 21, Southcoast 22 just to name a few, If you want to make your wife feel safe and have a larger cabin area in a boat this size take at the Westerly 22's, not the fastest thing on the water but very stable and spacious in the inside for a 22 footer. I trailer my Catalina 22 to and from each time I go out, usually takes me 45 minutes or so to rig and take down, not that bad actually since I do it on my own, and with one of these boats you really don't need more than a 9.9 outboard.


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## bcbrad (Oct 26, 2013)

I plan to take many classes/lessons my uncle aucally tteaches out of Vancouver so ill be sure to soak up the info. Im not against going smaller I just assumed if I went smaller id lose the comforts inside the boat. And as for Macgregor should I be looking at the ones for 15k ish and the 50 Hp or is the older and much cheaper one good for my needs. Ive been reading alot about Macgregors not being great with winds over 15 knots. Im trying not to blacklist Macgregor but im not hearing the best about them.


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## bcbrad (Oct 26, 2013)

Thanks catman22 ive heard alot of decent reviews of the catalina. What makes this better then say a Macgregor is it materials ? Because at first glance its almost the same looking.

Sorry if these are silly question. .Like I said no experience


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

That is a hotly debated topic here. What most will agree is that Macgregor built boats to a price-point, just like Catalina, Hunter, O'Day, and most other "production" boat builders. Roger built his to a lower price point than the others. Does that mean that the Mac's are bad? Not for some purposes, like lake sailing. Would I personally own one? Under the right conditions, yes. But they don't meet my needs. I add that so you understand that I'm not trying to be unfair. They are decent boats, but they are "entry level" and while there are AVID Mac fans (especially of the 26's) who trailer them everywhere and stay on them for weeks at a time, that's not really my idea of fun. The lack of headroom would make it uncomfortable for me for any length of time (I'm 5'10'), and the cabin lay-out isn't to my liking.

Generally, Macs are seen as being of lesser build quality than Catalinas, Hunters, or O'Days. To my eye (and everyone has their own take), Catalina tends to focus more on sailing performance, Hunter on creature comforts, and O'Day kind of split the difference. On ANY used boat, regardless of the manufacturer, the biggest thing you need to look for is how well it has been maintained. In some cases, a certain Mac will be a better boat than a Catalina, etc. if the Catalina hasn't been well maintained.

You keep jumping back to the "50HP engine". Most sailboats have displacement hulls. That means that their shape precludes them from ever getting "on plane" and thus going "fast". Most sailboats (except sailing dinghies, catamarans, etc.) max out at between 5 and 10 knots. You simply cannot push the boat to go much faster, regardless of how big the engine is. That being said, MacGregor, Lancer, and a few others have produced some motor-sailors. They are boats that can be used as powerboats when you want to (e.g., to tow skiers) and sailboats when you want. But they are almost universally panned as being not particularly good at either thing. That is, as a power boat, they go slow, don't maneuver as well, and the sail rigging gets in the way. And as a sailboat, the hull design that is required to allow it to work as a powerboat really doesn't let it sail well. All that being said, MacGregor sold a lot of those, and they are "great" boats for a certain segment of the market. If you're sure you fall into that segment, then they could be fun. But remember that, when you go to resell, most prospective buyers will be in the market for either a sailboat or a power boat, so you're going to have to wait for another "you" to come along before she'll sell.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

bcbrad, welcome aboard.

One thing you may notice here is a lot of recommendations for boats that we don't see too often up here. For example, for every Catalina 25 on the market in my area, there are 10 C&C 24s. For every Oday 23, there are 10 Grampian 23s, etc.,

What is your purchase budget for the boat and trailer? Where do you plan to sail her. These are two very important questions which have a great bearing on what boat you should buy.

a Macgregor 25/26D or S series will suit your needs- light, easy and quick to rig, designed for trailer sailing, relatively comfortable. If you can find a Halman 20/Nordica20 or a Matilda, these are also great Canadian trailer sailers.

Here's a good shopping resource, for info at a glance: http://sailquest.com/market/models/index.htm


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## bcbrad (Oct 26, 2013)

Thanks jim that was a very clear answer, because I know nothing about sailing I saw the 50hp as a possible safty line, again I have never sailed and know nothing about the stright of Georgia I thought it would be a vaid question for safty for a newby. But if your saying that a smaller eng. is fine for that type of sailing location im more op to find a good sailboat that ill be much happier with two years down the road (after learning how to sail )


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## bcbrad (Oct 26, 2013)

My budget would be around 15k at max. As for where id like to sail would be from Comox to Vancouver and down to Victoria and all the nice islands I have yet to vist inbetween.


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## unimacs (Sep 6, 2013)

They aren't silly questions. I've been following and searching some of the discussions on boats in that size range. I'm probably at least a year away from buying anything myself.

They're starting to blur together for me as well. 

I'm not sure if you're talking about a 22ft MacGregor or the 26 footer you mentioned earlier (the one with the 50 hp motor).

MacGregor appears to be aiming their boats at people like you and me. We want something big enough to be comfortable for spending a few nights on, yet light enough to be easily launched and trailered by something like a mid-sized SUV.

You don't get that without making some compromises. With the 26X and 26M (the motor sailers), MacGregor does that by using water ballast, thinner fiberglass, more spartan interiors, and in some cases lighter duty rigging than other boats. It's for these reasons that some people avoid them. I think MacGregor's argument would be that other boats are overbuilt and are heavier than they need to be. On the plus side, the MacGregors have positive flotation, - they can't be sunk even if filled completely with water.

From what I can tell Cat 22s are popular because they do a reasonable job of filling that niche but they are still more like a traditional sailboat and they have stood the test of time. They've been around for decades but are still in production so it is easy to find parts and other boats if you're interested in racing.

One thing to check on regarding your Jeep's towing capacity... We have a mid sized SUV and the limit for standard loads is 3500 but 4500 for boats.

MacGregor isn't the only once to use a water ballast system. One downside is that boats that use it rather than a weighted center board or keel is that they will "heel" more readily. This may freak out your wife until she gets used to it. Pretty much any monohull will heel noticeably in a stiff breeze so you're not really going to avoid it.


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## bcbrad (Oct 26, 2013)

Humm did not know towing a boat could change the allowance on the weight


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## bcbrad (Oct 26, 2013)

My budget would be around 15k at max. As for where id like to sail would be from Comox to Vancouver and down to Victoria and all the nice islands I have yet to vist inbetween.


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## unimacs (Sep 6, 2013)

bcbrad said:


> Humm did not know towing a boat could change the allowance on the weight


Stick your arm out the window of a vehicle going about 60 or 70 mph and you'll know why. Boats are more aerodynamic than something like a camper trailer. Air resistance is one of the bigger forces your vehicle has to overcome. That being said, you want to stay under that weight limit unless you don't mind replacing transmissions every few years.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

I detect a troll... maybe I've become a cynic in my elder years... 
Own a Mac and experience 4th mode...


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## bcbrad (Oct 26, 2013)

Im abit lost on your comment shnool. If your thinking im posting this thread for some kind of entertainment, that would very incorrect. Ive just been posted here and have never been near water in my life, im just learning how to get the most out of it.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I can completely understand your logic. I grew up around power boats, so the whole idea of a 9.9HP, or (as was on my Catalina originally) an 8HP pushing a 25' boat seemed crazy. But the 8HP Honda and 9.9HP Tohatsu that I had on that boat pushed her to and above theoretical hull speed at about half throttle. That gave me a lot of reserved "oomph" for if I was fighting a headwind or a current. For reference, my nearly 11,000 lb Allmand has a 16HP diesel inboard.

So, having sorted some of the confusion out, Jones's questions are perfect, as are some of your answers. A $15,000 budget is a reasonable budget. On a smaller boat, like a 22, that will get you something new-ish (maybe into the 1990's), on a 25-27, that will get you something with a 1980's vintage.

Unfortunately, what you're going to struggle with (and we all do) is finding the boat that truly meets your needs. One of the tough things right now is that, as a novice (again, I was there 2 years ago, too) you don't REALLY know what you want. You may think you do, but with all due respect, that will likely change.

Trailerable boats are great, and there are a lot of people for whom they are a perfect fit. The idea of being able to head off to different sailing destinations on a moment's notice is cool! As is the ability to travel REALLY far (e.g., across the country, or even down to the US) with the boat is pretty neat. A trip that would take many days in my boat is a relatively short drive away (for example, it took us 3 days to go about 200 miles when we did the delivery of the Allmand a few months ago). That significantly opens up your sailing area. Plus, with the boat on the trailer, you have her close to home to make repairs/maintenance, and you don't have to pay storage fees or slip fees (assuming you have the room at home).

But there's also a down-side to a trailerable boat. The first is the time you'll need to set her up and to break her down. Someone mentioned 45 minutes for a 22' boat, and that's generally what I've seen others say. For a 25, I typically heard an hour, once you're good at it. So, your typical day will be get up, hitch up the trailer, inspect the tires, brakes, etc., then tow the boat to the lake/ocean. Find a ramp that is deep enough for you to launch (depending on keel size/type, this may not be as big of an issue), then get in line to launch. Spend an hour rigging the boat. Stow everything. Launch the boat, then park the tow vehicle. Go sail, make sure you're back in time to have daylight while you get your car and wait in line to pull her from the water. Haul the boat, wash her down, break everything down (again, about an hour or so). If there is a bad turn in the weather, you're stuck breaking it down in the rain/wind. If something happens at the ramp, you're stuck in line for a long time. Then you get to drive home while towing a long, sometimes awkward load behind you. Then you have to park the boat in her "home".

If you're day sailing, you're looking at losing easily 2-3 hours of your day doing the "trailer thing" and that may get old quickly. That's why many trailer sailors go for the weekend, or longer. But (generally) the smaller the boat, the less comfortable it will be to sleep aboard. The bigger the boat, the harder it is to trailer and launch. As you'll hear here a lot, in boating, everything is a compromise.

Some trailer sailors LOVE it, and never want to give it up. For some, the idea of setting up and breaking down the boat gets old, and they look at other options. One is, of course, renting a slip. That's typically the most expensive option, but if you want shore power, it's really the only option (there are lots of threads on solar and wind power, if you're interested). The next less expensive options are moorings and keeping the boat rigged on a trailer at a marina/boat yard. Given what you've said your goals are in a boat, if you decide to stick with a trailerable boat, this last option may be advantageous. You find a marina in a place where you'll sail most regularly and you keep the boat out of the water when you aren't using it, but still avoid having to break it down and set it up every time. It can also be broken down and towed to other venues when you want to. You still won't have shore power, and if you overnight you'll need to anchor or rent a slip, but it's a nice compromise that lets you get on the water faster.

What I'd respectfully suggest, though, is that you don't know enough to start to understand the compromises involved, and your best bet is to go look at boats. And I don't just mean one or two, I mean 15-20. Look at 18'ers, 20's, 22's, 25's, and if you can find them, a few 27's. Look at what you get with the different sizes, and decide which size best meets your anticipated use. Sit in the 22's cabin, and imagine the two of you (or more, if you have kids) sleeping there and then waking the next morning; how do you prepare breakfast? How do you handle your morning routine (shower, shave, teeth, etc.)? Where is the head located; does it offer enough privacy for your wife? What if one of you needs to "go" during the night, does it require waking the other person before the head can be used? Sit in the cockpit - is it big enough for your wife to sit comfortably while you're working the tiller (since most boats in that size range don't have wheels)? If you plan on having guests regularly, is the cockpit big enough for everyone?

Once you've been aboard a bunch of boats, then think about your intended use again. As I said, for some a 22 is a PERFECT boat. For me, with my family, there's no way we could make that work. Although we liked the IDEA of trailering our boat, the time lost rigging and breaking down the boat was a non-starter for us because we have 2 young kids. They would be going nuts during that time, and it wouldn't wind up being an enjoyable time. Eventually, we accepted this fact and went with a slip, and then went with a bigger, more comfortable boat. A trailerable may be just the ticket for you, but I want to make sure you have a good sense of what will be involved, because the last thing I want is for you to buy something that becomes an albatross.

All that being said, go back and read Denise's first post - I think she covered almost all of that, and in far fewer words than I did.


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## unimacs (Sep 6, 2013)

MacGregor does tout the idea of a 50 hp motor being a safety feature, - you can get out of bad weather quicker, but the others are right. The hull design of a typical keel boat puts a cap on its speed and it's based on the length of the boat. A 26ft keel boat is only going to go so fast and it doesn't matter how big the engine is. MacGregor gets around this problem by using a planing hull design, a daggerboard, and water ballast that can be dumped while underway. 

If you're really new to sailing and water activities in general, I think the idea of joining a sailing club or taking some classes is an excellent one. There's a standard class for beginning keel boat sailers called ASA-101. They would get you on the water in a boat about the size of what you're looking at. Might give you a better idea of what you want before you end up spending $15,000 on something you'll end up selling less than a year later for less than what you paid.

In your mind sailing is a peaceful activity. It certainly can be that way but not knowing what you're doing when the wind starts to pick up can make for a really bad experience. If your wife is nervous around water then you may only have one chance to get her to buy into the dream. Her first ride on a sailboat should really be with somebody who knows how to sail it or there's a good chance she'll never set foot on one again.

Just to give you an example, my brother's boat was one he originally purchased with a buddy of his. It's a 23 foot Ensign. My brother knows how to sail but his buddy really didn't though he'd been out with my brother a number of times. Anyway, this guy decides to bring his two young daughter's out on the boat one day. The wind picks up, so they head back. They manage to get back into the bay but somehow ended up way too close to shore and snagged some power lines with the mast. Knocked the power out to a couple of houses but luckily he and his daughters (and the boat) were fine. If I had to guess I'd say that he probably had figured out how to sail the boat, but not how to stop it.

My brother became the sole owner of that boat shortly thereafter. The power lines ended up getting moved as well which was a good thing.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Hey Brad welcome

My truck is rated to tow 3500 lbs. In the real world the Catalina 22 we have, with gear on a trailer is all she can handle. I wish I could get a Cat 25, but I don't want to buy a heavy truck that gets 10 mpg. I think the 22 is okay for an overnight or two and its a lot of fun to sail. 5 hp pushes the boat at max hull speed, around 7 mph. Good luck


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

bcbrad said:


> My budget would be around 15k at max. As for where id like to sail would be from Comox to Vancouver and down to Victoria and all the nice islands I have yet to vist inbetween.


West Wight Potter 19. Might be just about the perfect PNW trailer sailer.
https://sites.google.com/site/2001wwp19/

With your relatively light towing capacity, you are going to need a boat that has an "advertised" weight well under the limit. by the time you add gear, and an outboard, and fuel, and water and ... it doesn't take long to add another 500-750 lbs of stuff.

Because everything is smaller on a WWP 19 than a macgregor 22/25/26, setup goes faster- the mast goes up quicker, the stays and shroud installation and tensioning is quicker, and no water ballast to play with.Plus, it is short enough, with trailer to stroe IN the garage during the winter making it a whole lote easier to work on boat projects...and there are always boat projects.


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## bcbrad (Oct 26, 2013)

If I can just as this one last question out of the most mentioned trailer sailers so far mentioned in the 19-24 foot range, what would you guy/gals personally pick for sailing accross the Stright of Georgia (my wife loves Vancouver, and we live on Vancouver island and im trying to enjoy it just was much) assuming that ive taken lession and somewhat exp. What would you feel most safe in....as it gets fairy windy here ? This answer would really help me in keeping my eye out for the correct boats when they come up for sale..ill be use to look at many type but I dont want to buy a M26 and then try to sail across and people look at me like I have a death wish lol


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I had a Catalina {Jaguar ] 22 Trailer sailer and happily stayed aboard with a friend for weekends. I have a few thoughts for you.

I am not sure I could have managed to raise a mast that was much bigger. Sure with three people it gets to be easier but with on or two I am not so sure.

Anything bigger than 20 ft a 4 wheel trailer is good. On any size having side guide poles makes things MUCH easier on recovery.

On 22 ft 6 to 8 hp is fine.

I would look for something that will resell easily as it is likely that if you get bitten you will want something different [bigger racy etc] after a couple of years.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

bcbrad said:


> ...what would you guy/gals personally pick for sailing accross the Stright of Georgia (my wife loves Vancouver, and we live on Vancouver island and im trying to enjoy it just was much)...What would you feel most safe in....as it gets fairy windy here ?


As was mentioned above, MacGregors don't exactly have a great reputation for high build quality or high-end components. They build to a price point, and as long as you understand what that is, and your use case meets the build of the boat, then they can be fine. For example, if you live in Arizona and do mostly lake sailing, they can be a perfectly adequate choice. That being said, watch the video on this site:

http://www.macgregor26.com/index/gale_2_min.htm

That's a MacGregor 26 out in Southern California in gale force winds. There's a common saying here, that the boat will outlast the crew, and I think that video helps prove the point. Now, would I want to cross an ocean in a Mac26? No. Wouldn't want to do it in a stock Catalina 25 either. There are too many things that can go wrong, and with the risk of being exposed to REALLY nasty weather for several days in a row without being able to seek shelter, those just aren't the boats I'd pick. That being said, it's nice to know that even a boat with purportedly poor/mediocre build quality can survive being in those conditions for a while.

Unfortunately, I have no experience with your proposed sailing area. That looks like a big body of water, though, so I can see how the wind could build depending on the direction. Of course, you're smart enough not to intentionally go out in really nasty weather, so what you're looking at is a boat that can take a beating from a freak storm that might come up. I think most boats will meet those needs. But, if you want a good barometer, look on Kajiji or eBay for the boats that are for sale in your area and in your desired size range. The ones that you frequently see for sale will PROBABLY be fine for your intended use. In my area, that's the Catalina 22-30, and some Hunters, O'Days, and Irwins. Once I identified those, I read the owner review forums (here and on other sites), and helped affirm that the boat I was looking at (the C25) would keep my family and me safe, and she did. She even survived a hurricane. Or at least she would have, if the tugboat hadn't sunken in the slip next to us and listed into our slip.


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## gts1544 (Apr 26, 2008)

*bcbrad,* Let me approach this from a little different tack! My feeling is that your tow vehicle's limitations vs your intended usage for the boat are at odds. I have read all of the posts and there is much good advice contained within. My question is whether you want to sail with your life partner or NOT! If she is already not kindly disposed toward the water, you need to make her feel safe and COMFORTABLE. I doubt that it's going to happen in a really small boat. Something that you need to understand is that interior space in a sailboat increases geometrically with an increase in length. Example: a well designed 25' boat will have twice the interior space of a 21 footer. Think female ie: her nest! Comfort and safety. A decent galley and toilet arrangements! Get her involved in the boat search. I assure you that she will have perspectives that have never occurred to you. Recommendations: At least a 25' boat / decent galley with counter space / enclosed head with pressure hand shower / foldable dodger for spray protection / tow vehicle capable of 6000 lbs (older Chevy Suburban with lots of carrying space) / tandem trailer with brakes, tongue extension & keel guide. Plan on trips of several days unless you spring for moorage due to the set up / tear down time mentioned. Give the wife sailing lessons to get her involved at the outset. "Ain't Momma happy, ain't nobody happy!" Best of Luck! You've got a beautiful area of the world to sail in! George


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## sparrowe (Nov 29, 2010)

Sailing across the Strait of Georgia in a trailerable sailboat? I'm going to second the recommendation of gts1544 that "you're going to need a bigger boat!" My recommendation is based not just on comfort, but also on the conditions you will encounter should your sailing take you across the Straits of Georgia, Haro, and/or San Juan de Fuca. There are some challenging tides/currents in the region, and I would favor an inboard diesel over an outboard hanging off the transom that is typical of trailerable boats. (Working against a strong current in boxy waves with the prop cavitating is not a desirable situation, an inboard is going to keep the prop underwater.) Also, I'd prefer a fin keel and some real ballast - and both make trailering - launching - retrieving difficult. If I were to pick an ideal boat for these conditions it would be an Islander 28, a C & C 27 or 29, or a Cal or Ericson of the same length. And those boats are not trailerable - they belong in a slip. 

If your ambitions are a bit more modest - like daysailing and occasional weekending, rather than venturing all around the PNW - and you are committed to trailering, I would look at the Compac Eclipse or Horizon Cat for the simple reason that it is so easy to raise and lower the mast. Put an extra-long shaft outboard on the transom; Tohatsu makes them under several brand names. (I've seen some Horizon Cats advertised with inboard diesels, but on newer and therefore $$$ boats.) These are well-made boats that are comfortable, stable, and easy to manage.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

deniseO30 said:


> No. Mac = McGregor motor sailers are a love hate thing. Not a true sailboat not a true power boat. But they have a cult like group of owners that love them.


Not totally true. The Macs are mostly NOT powersailers, most models are standard sailboats up until after the 26S.

Don't reject Macs because the current models are powersailers. The 25 is in the American Sailboat Hall of Fame in fact.

Sorry, but I have to call this out as it seems to be repeated on here constantly. Mac does not necessarily = No.

EDIT: I went back and read the whole thread and of course this is sorta covered. I just wanted to say that my family of 4 uses a M25 exactly as you want and it is a great boat for it. We will be doing coastal cruising with it this summer and I have little concern. This is the use it was intended for after all.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I think you were being a bit too quick to judge. In Denise's defense, the OP mentioned a Mac with a 50HP engine. Do any of the non-powersailers have 50HP engines? Where in this thread, except for the comments about the powersailers, has anyone said outright NOT to buy a Mac? As the owner of a Mac 25, would YOU recommend the powersailer to any/everyone?

Even in the part that you quoted, if you read in the punctuation that I believe Denise intended (we all make typos here), I think what she was saying was:



> No. Mac = McGregor. Motor sailers [again, implied by the OP's reference to a 50HP engine] are a love hate thing. Not a true sailboat not a true power boat. But they have a cult like group of owners that love them


How does "cult like group of owners that love them" equate to Mac = no?


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Jim,

Not judging, just clarifying. I read the post, he asked about seeing 50HP outboards and asked about the relative safety between that and a 9.9. He could be seeing both M26S and X or Ms and that would be very confusing at first. I was clarifying that the model needs to be specific to determine what is being discussed. When a person new to the sport hears very general negative information regarding a brand it needs to be specific as they might not know the context. Other brands have been in this situation, Tartan and Hunter comes to mind. When the OP is new, I think giving as specific info as possible without being verbose (way too late for me as usual) helps. I know it did for me when I started. 

Just as an aside, I think this is one of the reasons for the popularity of the "Interesting Sailboats" thread. It is very specific and detailed and encourages that from its participants. PCP does a great job of keeping details accurate to prevent confusion.

And the cult thing wasn't what I was referring to in general. But, have someone refer to something you love as "cult" and some may not consider it a compliment. 

Sorry if I seemed too sharp but I hope Denise will forgive. I just knew that when I was new and asking questions, many responses assumed base knowledge that I didn't have and I had to "unlearn" some "facts" that I had picked up.

Here are some smiles just to keep things happy


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

LOL...and I came across a bit defensive too. I've been here long enough to notice that on probably 80% of the threads where Macgregors come up, a "defender" pops up and we get into the whole mac-bashing thing. That's not what happened here. I tried to give as balanced a perspective as I could as a non-owner (and novice) and I think that when you read them carefully, Denise's comments were fair too.

As to the "cult-like" comment, I don't believe she was saying Mac-ownership IS a cult, just that those who have them, especially the powersailers, tend to rabidly love them. I think that's true of many boats (with the possible exception of the Hunter 28) though - they cost enough that there's no point in keeping it if you don't love it. To be honest, I read her Denise's "cult" comment as a compliment and carefully pointing out that they more than meet certain peoples' needs.

I can appreciate the desire to defend your boat - Jeff_H hates Allmands. There are days I want to sail my boat back to the Chesapeake just so I can take him for a ride and see if we can't change his mind! He's lucky I didn't run into him in Annapolis. (kidding)


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

50 hp on a transom would have to be a mac motorsailer. They are strange boats to me, and the water ballast models has been a problem for some owners. There's one sitting in my YC for many years, the guy never uses it; but puts it in once a year to stay current with the club's "must run" policy. Shame too, it's one boat that would serve well on a River like the Delaware. Get you where you want to go and sail then be home for dinner! But, I like a true keel boats in all their slowness. The other macs that are sail only do well as trailer sailers and sit low on the bunks. Not like some other trailer sailers.


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## FirstCandC (Mar 26, 2013)

3,500 pound limit and long trips with the wife won't mix well. 
But you still have options:
1- Get a daysailor or something up to 3500 pounds with gear, trailer, and motor included. Sail to whichever island you like, and camp on the island. A centerboard model will get you closer to the beach and be easier to launch, but the wife is still going to get wet unless you have an inflatable dinghy.
2- 15K is a lot of money for sailboat, especially if you are handy. Have you checked slip/moorage fees in your area? If you have the skills and time, you can refurbish a larger older boat that you will be more comfortable staying on, and have money left over for storage.
3- I wouldn't do it with my truck, but different strokes for different folks. You could get an overweight 25 footer and leave it rigged on your trailer at a marina at a reduced storage rate. There are places down here that only charge $50/month for this type of storage! Then you can just launch and go before a long trip, and not have to worry about leaving your jeep overnight for a week or so in an unknown place.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

My advice is to stop by some marina's and get some prices to dock, haul and store the boat. At about 25 feet, its starts to become really worth it. I keep my Cat 22 docked because I don't want to do all that work rigging and hauling. 

Believe me , I have done it- that work and hauling really detracts from the fun. BIG TIME

Get a heavier boat + find a cheap boat yard = have a great time.

Finally - I do find the Cat 22 to be a very good compromise. Thats what we currently have.


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## jwing (Jun 20, 2013)

bcbrad said:


> ... as I belive it will be one of the most most peaceful things to do ...
> ... wife is scared of the water...


IMO, all the talk about boat characteristics is putting the cart before the horse. Notice the conflict I edited from your original post. Somebody who has fear of water will not be relaxed on a trailerable sailboat on a large body of water. Rein in your fantasies and deal with reality.

I can't tell your wife how to overcome her fear, but the first step would be to determine if she really wants to overcome it. If so, try baby steps - Is she uncomfortable on a ferry? If so, forget about sailing with her. If she can be comfortable on smaller motor boats, then maybe there is hope. Before you buy a sailboat, I recommend you invest in a crewed charter cruise in an area of warm, smooth water, and gentle winds - like the Virgin Islands. If she doesn't like that, start looking for an RV. There's nothing wrong with staying on land.

Finally, if you go forward with a boat purchase, scale back your Strait crossing dreams. You'll want to stay very close to shore for a year or two until you both have the skills for a big crossing. If you want to sail to places where you camp on land, a daysailor with a cuddy to hold your gear would be the ticket. If you want a boat big enough to hang out all day and all night, you are getting out of trailerable range. As suggested previoulsy, look at lots of boats. It's fun and you'll learn much about boats and about yourselves. Lots of people start out small and cheap, then upgrade when they have a better understanding of the sport and what they want to do with it.


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## Daydreamer22 (Oct 16, 2008)

I own an Oday 22 and enjoy it very much. Has a small cabin with a hand sink and a coleman stove. A door on the bulkhead to the v-berth and porta-potty.
V-berth is cramped for two adults, but so was the v-berth on the Catalina 320 we did ASA on. I have done overnighters with my wife and spent longer by myself.

It is a 2000# boat with a shoal / shallow keel. Has bunks to guide the keel, making it easy to get back on the trailer. Trailers easy. Takes about an hour to rig and launch, less with two working efficiently. I have done the whole routine singlehanded.

If you haven't sailed I highly recommend some lessons, ASA or private. Since your wife doesn't like the water you might try a skippered charter for a few hours just to find out how she'll do.

My wife is actually less enthused about sailing after taking ASA 101 and 103, and I'm looking for a bigger boat.


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## casioqv (Jun 15, 2009)

I want to encourage you to look the other direction, and consider an even smaller boat for trailer sailing. There is a tradeoff between size and quality on a fixed budget- and I think a good sailing experience comes more from having a good quality and well set up boat, than a large boat.

It's a well established phenomenon that smaller boats tend to get sailed more often. I recommend buying the smallest boat that will possibly work for what you plan to do in the short term future.

I was in a similar situation as you (sailing with my wife, car that tows 3,500 lbs) and went with a Catalina 22. I initially thought this was a bit small, but after sailing for 5 years I decided that it was way too big for these reasons:

-Towing close to the weight limit of the vehicle makes for a stressful drive, and is hard on the vehicle. Loaded for a week long cruise, your boat can weigh close to 1,000lbs more than empty!
-Rigging and unrigging a 22 footer is really a 2 hour job up, and a 2 hour job down from arrival to sailing off. This makes trips less than 3 days not very fun. My wife especially hated the long rigging job in hot crowded parking lots.
-Maintenance costs (and effort) scale with boat size. Although I could easily afford to buy a 22 footer, I couldn't afford to maintain it in bristol condition with the best quality gear. It turns out the initial purchase price is pretty much inconsequential compared to other costs in the long run.
-Sailing effort scales with the size of the boat, so you can do a better job sailing a smaller boat longer, and with less fatigue.
-In a trailer sailor, you spend all your time in the cockpit- the cabin is less useful than it looks for anything but sleeping. Smaller boats with sleeping only cabins can be actually more comfortable than larger ones with bunks cramped to make room for a galley and enclosed head. It's more convenient and fun to cook on a propane barbecue or backpacking stove in the cockpit, even if you have a galley.
-Engines can be the opposite of a safety feature: they fail when you need them most, and act as a 'crutch' that prevents you from learning how to handle difficult sailing situations like docking, light winds, and heavy weather. Smaller boats are easier to learn engineless sailing on, and can be rowed easily. I started with an engine, but after a few years found I had more fun if I left it home. I eventually sold it for enough to buy sails that let me handle all weather: a light nylon drifter, a heavy built storm jib, and deep reef points in the main.
-Marina slips are typically billed per foot length overall
-You can anchor closer to (or even on) the beach with a smaller boat
-Smaller boats can anchor securely with a lighter easier to haul anchor

So I recently dropped down to a Montgomery 15, which weighs only 750lbs. It sails better than a Catalina 22, has much larger and more comfortable bunks in the cabin, and I can afford to outfit it with the best equipment money can buy.


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## unimacs (Sep 6, 2013)

Thanks for a different perspective casioqv.

I've been casually thinking about a trailer sailer though actually purchasing one is at least a year off and maybe quite a bit more. I have a similar vehicle as the OP though it gives a separate rating for boats of 4,500 lbs.

The toughest part for me is separating the reality of how I imagine I might use a boat vs the reality. Would my family really like spending two or three days on a boat a few times a summer? Would it make more sense to get a boat with a large cockpit and a smaller cabin instead and have friends sail with us on a local lake? I can't really say. 

If you get a water ballasted boat instead of one with a fixed keel, it allows you get get a bigger boat without needing a bigger tow vehicle. But boats like this are more tender and often don't sail as well. And even though they're lighter, I don't relish the idea of towing something that's 8 ft wide for long distances.

Many trailer sailers come with mast raising systems that minimize rigging time. I know that Santana 2023s can supposedly be rigged in under 30 minutes but those boats prior to 1996 had issues with leaking water ballast tanks.

Anyway, like I said, my biggest challenge will be in separating dream from reality and then making an appropriate choice, - which may mean no boat at all and just sailing with the local club (and my little inflatable catamaran).


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

I have 3 trailer sailers and the Holder 14 gets used the most - several times a month, Dolphin senior once a month, while Mirage 5.5m only gets sailed about once a year for a week long camping trip. All 3 cost me less than $50 a year in fees and were not at all expensive to buy used. So what I advise is get 2 boats. At current boat prices it will not break the bank.


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## unimacs (Sep 6, 2013)

krisscross said:


> I have 3 trailer sailers and the Holder 14 gets used the most - several times a month, Dolphin senior once a month, while Mirage 5.5m only gets sailed about once a year for a week long camping trip. All 3 cost me less than $50 a year in fees and were not at all expensive to buy used. So what I advise is get 2 boats. At current boat prices it will not break the bank.


I agree that the purchase price isn't the problem necessarily. I just looked at an old Catalina 22 that hadn't been sailed in at least 3 years. I think he would have taken $500 for it. Maybe less. It was sitting uncovered on its trailer. He said he spent $2000 on hull work a few years ago but he didn't sound like much of a sailor.

The expense for me would be storage. I could maybe keep one on my property for the winter but wouldn't want it sitting in my driveway all year long so I'd need a mooring. They are relatively cheap nearby but much more than $50 a year.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

unimacs said:


> The expense for me would be storage. I could maybe keep one on my property for the winter but wouldn't want it sitting in my driveway all year long so I'd need a mooring. They are relatively cheap nearby but much more than $50 a year.


You can also look for a marina that has a good boat ramp and allows to keep your boat on a trailer with the mast up. Saves a lot of time in getting it ready to sail. It might be cheaper than mooring and a lot easier on you and the boat.


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## gedaggett (Oct 21, 2008)

unimacs said:


> Anyway, like I said, my biggest challenge will be in separating dream from reality and then making an appropriate choice, - which may mean no boat at all and just sailing with the local club (and my little inflatable catamaran).


I have been in that situation before. And here is what I found. The family was good with doing some day sails and the Kids were up for the occasional overnight. The long weekend thing on a small boat is awesome for me but no so much for the little ones. I ended up doing more stuff in town than actually sailing. If it were a bigger boat with more creature comforts then my family would be more into staying on the boat.

I had a Mac Gregor 222 with the pop-up top and while at dock or anchor it made the cabin usable. I could launch in 2 feet of water and setup and launch took me 45 minutes by myself with a simple system to raise the mast. 1 year I had the boat on a dock and the other I had it stored mast up on the trailer in the marina lot. That saved me some cash and launch took 20 minutes.

I started off with a little 12 foot scow to hone my skills in understanding sailing and also to get my kids out in good conditions with little time investment in launch should they decide that the park was more fun than sailing that day. I did 85% of my sailing on a small boat without my family as many times the conditions were too rough for them or they just had other things that interested them more. Now that I am on bigger boats my wife has become more agreeable to weekend and even week long vacations on a boat but i have a realistic understanding that it won't be spent sailing as much as I would want to. For that I will be solo or with my buddies.

Maybe you could get something like this and keep it at the club to see how it goes.


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## 06HarleyUltra (Oct 27, 2011)

I started with the same dream as you have about 2 years ago. I also have the same spouse issues, lol. So here's what I did: 
I read these and other sites like crazy and absorbed as much knowledge as possible. I then took ASA 101 and learned the basics of sailing. 
I wrote on a sheet of paper the pros and cons of what boat would fit our needs, taking into account our intended use, $$, tow vehicle, area of use, bunks, sleeping, sailing ability, motors, ect. 
Sleep on it for 6 months. Lol
Read lots more and revise your list. 
I bought a Mac26X and we love it. It fits our needs and our sailing area well. The wife likes it, likes the enclosed head, and the cabin space. The kids like that I can tow them the inner tubes for part of the day, or just motor about. I like that i can raise the sails and do my thing in total peace and quiet. 
It's not a great sail boat, or a great motor boat. But it does both good enough for us. Ours has a 50hp Honda, and at wot we can hit 17 kts. At sail I usually do 4-5 kts, but as my sail trim improves, so does my speed. My Mac won't win any races, but I could care less. I can raise the mast with the mast raising system by myself, and have the boat in the water ready to go in 40 min. With help, 25-30 min. We frequently sleep over night on her and enjoy the room and comfort. I keep her in my backyard when not in use, and is easy to work on. 
I also have well under 10k invested at this time.
My BIG advice is this: In my personal opinion, a Mac is not, repeat not, a blue water boat. I would not risk my loved ones on rough open stormy water. It's a good lake/limited (proper planned/good weather) coastal boat. 
Re-read the posts on this topic as their is some mighty good advice. 

Rich


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## gedaggett (Oct 21, 2008)

MacGregor X models seem to be very polarizing designs. On one hand you have a very loyal following who loves the boats and feel like they are are versatile and have the benefits of both. Then you have the other side that often has the view that when you try and have a compromise in design you get just that, a boat that comprises and doesn't do either particularly well. I think the point I am trying to make is there are so many designs and so many opinions of them it might be best to just try and get on some boats and see what you really like. Go look at anything that is near you so you get a feel for the different designs and beg, plead and offer good quality beer to get out on a couple boats. 

I would agree with Harley that the X is definitely relegated to a life near the coast. Has a very high free board and can be very tender in moderate waves.


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## TJC45 (Jul 10, 2013)

When i read threads like this, newbie wants to trailer sail, mostly I think - this person has no idea what they are getting themselves into. And, what you don't know can hurt you.

As in - the boat is too small - Denise realized she needed more boat. most people just walk away from sailing because going bigger is financially out of the question. 

PIA- that stands for Pain in the butocal region. A hour of rigging and unrigging can get old fast. That's if it's only an hour. Dealing with boat ramps gets old. Too steep, not steep enough, too slippery, too much current, not protected from waves, too much power boat traffic, not enough parking, did you remember to bring the keys to the boat? Where does the boat reside when not in use, did you remember to buy engine oil, what are kids doing while you rig and unrig load and unload, Daddy the bugs are biting me Etc etc etc!!!

Competing for time - if you have any time limitations to sailing a trailer sailor is going to sit in your driveway rather than get used. The time/pleasure calculation will always go against taking the boat out if there are time constraints. Especially once the PIA factor is added in. Example : you've got 5 hours of free time. 1/2 hour to prep for day on boat. 1/2 hour to reach ramp. 1 hour to rig. Same on back side leaves only one hour for sailing. Hmm? 

The point being that there is much, if not accounted for, that can kill the strongest sailing dreams. Knowing what you are getting into before hand can go a long way in helping you achieve the dream.

On the practical advice side of things - 3500 pounds of towing means buying a 2000 pound boat max. trailer for a boat that size will be in the 800 to 1000 pound range and gear will easily take up the rest of the weight package your vehicle can handle. 

If sailing just for you and your wife one boat not mentioned ( i think) Montgomery 15 and 17. Both excellent trailer sailors.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

First Brad let me apologize for assuming you were trolling... You've since figured out why I would think as much (the Mac 26x, the motorsailor is a HIGHLY polarizing boat). 

So lemme first properly welcome you... and let me say that, sailing can be the most difficult sport challenge, but life altering, and still enjoyable hobby/sport/addiction you could ever endeavor to try. For that, I say "welcome to the addiction!"

As I see it you have several different requests ALL in conflict with one another. Please fix/ammend my comments below... if I read wrong:

* You have a Jeep (assuming cherokee/Grand not wrangler) that can tow #3500 - my assumption then is you want trailerable (as is also your topic headline)
* Your wife is uneasy about water time (not unusual by the way).. this needs more definition, is it the water (can't swim) or boats, or worse sailboats (heeling), others will chime in on how EASY it is to assuage fears in that category
* Because of above you want live-aboard, or camp aboard accomodations, as "bigger is better."
* You want to do what amounts to short open water crossings...
* You have roughly $15k to throw at this (assuming all up, meaning maintenance and fix its, for the first year or 2)

Broken down like this, I'm going to tell you right now, you aren't going to cover all those bases. Regardless of what you'll do you'll wind up with a compromise boat. ONLY YOU can figure out what priority list you have from that list above.

Several will tell you the Norsea 27 is a trailerable, bluewater, headroom cruiser, that fits MUCH of your requirements... but you aren't towing it with your Jeep, nor are you likely to find a servicable one for $15k.

A Capri 18 will have a porta-pottie, is trailerable, all up package is exactly #3500, but it's hardly comfortable below, nor capable of much if any offshore work.

So it's decision time... Because most here will tell you, a boat slip at $2500 a year (guess), and heavier boat for a light offshore day sail for under $15k for the first year is POSSIBLE (yeah the market is THAT bad), but of course it'll not be towable except with a crane and a diesel pickup.

Now as for the Mac 26x... I don't think it's a bad boat (there I said it)... I do think it's a compromise boat. Having a 50hp motor especially an outboard, is hardly a "safety factor." At least no more than a 9.9hp outboard would be, and most will tell you a good inboard is a better choice for any harsh conditions... 

That being said, I'd LIKE to help you prioritize your list (as it sounds like most here would as well)...

If you REALLY want this to be a hobby you and your spouse can enjoy... you MIGHT want to invest in ASA classes for you both! Might also be better if you take the classes at different times, so you are not there to shadow her. Once she has a handle on what makes the boat go, and stop, and does some actual driving of the boat, she MIGHT be less afraid of the water (assuming the fear is not the water it's the boat). 

If there is a fear of water in general (say she cannot swim), then swimming lessons perhaps... but that's not likely gonna help as much as you might think. If it's just the open water, then perhaps you might want to rethink doing this together! I know I am really throwing a monkey wrench there.. but Honestly you cannot compel your spouse to like your hobbies, and sometimes its better to not try to go down that road. What happens as you expand your hobby is you build a resentment towards your hobby if the spouse doesn't enjoy it for themselves, but instead enjoys it for YOU! Sorry, some spouses won't ever enjoy it for themselves. 

NOW, I have a solution to above, at least to an extent. Sometimes they get over the fear of "sailing," or "the water" as you become a more competent skipper. You can do that by getting miles (nautical of course) under you belt in various weather. Then you can ease fears by sailing "flat" and picking short destinations for whatever THEIR favorite things to do are (say antiquing, or shopping, or laying at the beach, or just browsing historic sites)... So now the boat is a mode of transport, not the hobby. If that "grabs" the attention, it can turn YOUR hobby into HER hobby, if in an indirect way... but that is a HUGE stretch, and its hard to get there.

So Step 1. Classes for you both if you can.
Step 2. Get a small boat for YOU to cut your teeth, and put it where you can get the most "tiller-time" 2-3-4 times a week is best.
Step 3... Decide what size boat will get you where you ultimately want to be (by then you'll know if it's with the wife or not).


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

Wow. What a lot of advise you have gotten since I checked into here last.

I will just say that may family did exactly what you are planning this summer. My wife DOES like boating though so that is a difference. We bought a trailer sailer, 25', and spent nearly our whole summer on it. It cost us 5K in AK where prices are as high as the winter is cold. 

Only you can decide what your family is into for fun. If you are an adventurous group then your plans are not really crazy at all. People did it all the time in the 60s and 70s before sailing was displaced by PWCs and powerboats.

Each forum member is going to tell you what they could handle, only you can decide if it is right for your family. The 3 steps above are a great start. My wife a few years ago was a white water guide but was very afraid of the ocean. Now she has kayaked by herself out there, and finished her first 2 sailing classes. You never now what a person will enjoy until they try it.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

The dreaded double post. 

But hey as long as I did...



SHNOOL said:


> If you REALLY want this to be a hobby you and your spouse can enjoy... you MIGHT want to invest in ASA classes for you both! Might also be better if you take the classes at different times, so you are not there to shadow her. Once she has a handle on what makes the boat go, and stop, and does some actual driving of the boat, she MIGHT be less afraid of the water (assuming the fear is not the water it's the boat).


This is what we did and it worked great. Taking separate classes made sailing my wife's fun getaway for 3 days. I took care of the girls while she enjoyed it for herself. Great idea SHNOOL.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Yeah I suggested same to my wife, but she wasn't really interested. Even though I've sailed for years I'd like to get all the ASA classes as well (you never know everything)... our local ASA school is fantastic too. I know 2 of the instructors, and they are both top-notch sailors in their own rights. I am quite sure I could pick their brains for hours and be quite happy with that.

Sadly my wife has No interest in sailing, she doesn't mind being a passenger at all, but has (as she puts it) no sense of balance, and therefore feels uneasy moving about the boat. She's got a bum left eye, so really only has decent vision in 1 eye, so her depth perception is way off. This is MOST likely the reason for her saying she's got no sense of balance... We ride horses, so she obviously has SOME balance.

My daughter on the other hand... she's likely going to grow up to be my bowman... she's totally into sailing and will scale the deck at 10yo in a good breeze with water spraying over the bow. She's also really into flying the big kite... so yep I could totally see her as foredeck.

Anyway, yes can't say enough good things about the ASA schools. 2 of my crew were FRESH out of ASA 101 and 103, came to crew with me for last season, and both of them took to this like they had been doing it their whole lives.


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## atrometer (Apr 7, 2006)

Save your money! BOTH you and your wife need to go to a GOOD sailing school to learn how to sail FIRST! This may also help with her fears.


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## Tallswede (Jul 18, 2012)

atrometer said:


> Save your money! BOTH you and your wife need to go to a GOOD sailing school to learn how to sail FIRST! This may also help with her fears.


Now this is some good advice. If she is willing, it's a great way to get her more comfortable. I wish I had done this with my wife many years ago rather than scaring her when I bought my first "big" trailerable. It was a Southcoast 22 with iron swing keel and I had only sailed it a couple of times before I took the wife and 4 year old son out on a windy spring day. She, like your wife is a bit nervous to be on the water anyway and when the boat heeled way over she panicked. A little later on while bashing to windward the bolt holding the main sheet cleat broke and so more panick ensued before I got the main down. So it has taken me awhile to get her comfortable on a sailboat. This took going out on some bigger boats in calmer conditions. We now have a Hunter 23.5 water ballast boat and I sail it very conservatively, reefing early so as not to heel the boat too far. She has learned to trust me and enjoys the boat now. The Hunter 23.5 & 240 is about the largest trailer sailers you could pull with your 3500 lb. weight limit and that's pushing it. Along with the McGregor 26S & D models which are a little longer but have no more space inside really but are fast and are light. I pull mine with a Jeep Liberty which is rated to pull 5000 lbs. Hunter and Catalina both made motorsailers similar to the Mac26M & Xs also. They are maybe a little nicer and more roomy than the Mac26M & D but are heavier than you can tow with your vehicle. I'm considering one of these motorsailers for a Great Loop trip in the future.

Kevin


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## unimacs (Sep 6, 2013)

TJC45 said:


> When i read threads like this, newbie wants to trailer sail, mostly I think - this person has no idea what they are getting themselves into. And, what you don't know can hurt you.
> 
> As in - the boat is too small - Denise realized she needed more boat. most people just walk away from sailing because going bigger is financially out of the question.
> 
> ...


All the above is true and they're all reasons why currently I belong to a sailing club rather than owning my own (keel) boat. I do have an inflatable cat that's easy to transport and store but it's basically for sailing off of a beach and not very practical for more than two people. You're not going to sleep on the thing.

After sailing in the Apostle Islands on a 37 foot boat with members of the sailing club this past Fall I now have the desire to do some trailer sailing but still have all the same potential problems mentioned above. My wife isn't afraid of water but I'm not sure spending a week or even a weekend camping on a sailboat would be her idea of fun. 

I do have a relatively inexpensive place I could moor it in the summer. There's room to park a boat in the driveway (barely) but getting it through the alley and around the ornamental trees would be a challenge. However, I am thinking that one of the trees is on its last legs anyway. 

What I have found is that there is a huge variety of boats in the 18 to 26 foot range that might work. All of them represent a unique set of compromises. Some are easy to rig. Some a relatively light but tender. Some have more cabin space. Some have large cockpits. Some sail well, others not so much.

Anyway, I think the only way you're going to know for sure is to try it out, but yeah, learn to sail first, do your research on boats, and be patient. It seems like there are more boats out there than people that want them.


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## czarnajama (Feb 4, 2014)

I have done a lot of sailing over the past five years on such boats - in Poland! There are thousands of boats there which are trailerable, have lots of room below, drop and raise masts UNDER WAY in 5 minutes, draw ONE FOOT OF WATER with the centreboard up, have solid ballast (not water), and in some cases have standing headroom, with lengths from 16 to 32 feet. Very good ones can be found in the 22-25 foot range. They are vastly better than the old Venture/McGregor 25/26 footers. The only small one I see imported and marketed in Ontario, Canada is the TES 678BT, a really roomy 23-footer with 5' 8" headroom; there is an excellent TES 28 Magnam which is also imported. The smaller one, with a slightly deeper optional keel-centreboard arrangement, was recently sailed single-handed across the Atlantic. These are boats of very high quality.

Polish lake sailers all have an A-frame for raising and lowering the mast, which involves taking the mainsail slides out of the sail track, removing the boom from the gooseneck and putting on the deck, removing one pin up front and then, from the cockpit, winching the deck-hinged mast back until it rests in a cup on a post mounted above the stern pulpit. One raises the centreboard and the rudder while powering with the outboard under bridges through shallow channels and locks between lakes. I usually see crews begin raising the mast even as they are still under a bridge! I'm surprised that this sort of boat is rare in North America, because it opens up all sorts of waters which are not really accessible to cabin sailboat cruising, e.g. the Kawartha Lakes. Makes include Antila, TES, Tango, Phobos, Maxus, Sasanka, Twister etc.


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## socal c25 (Nov 1, 2013)

A MacGregor 25 did well for me and my family, 2 little ones and my wife. We would sail 25 miles to Catalina Island and stay 3 days with no problems and once a year we would sail down to San Diego, 100 miles and stay a week there, we always had a good time. As the kids got older 8 and 6 years old I did move up to a 30 foot Catalina. Kids are grown and after not sailing for about 15 years I got the itch again, bought a Coronado 25 to start out again and to pass my sailing skills off to my kids, the Coronado 25 is too big to trailer easily (it will trailer) and yet small enough to single hand or double crew for weekends. Good luck with your venture...


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## climbhike (Mar 29, 2013)

I'm in a similar situation. Currently have a 14 ft Pintail I use on local lake. 45 minutes from home to in the water. Wife enjoys sailing, but is OK with just being passenger. But want to get her at the tiller. This spring would like to rig an electric trolling motor to get around the launch area and maybe through the channel to Lake Michigan. Future retirement plan is to find a Mac 26 for long weekends. We are in SW Michigan, most of our kids and grandkids are in the Chicago area. Would love to sail across the lake and play with them. Could pull up to my Daughter's beach in Highland Park or Step-daughter in Evanston. Wife has the option to sail across, drive around or take Amtrak. We have other hobbies so don't want to go and commit to a boat in a slip. Trailer sailer looks like our best option. Yes, I understand it is a "compromise" boat, but it gives us the option to tow up to Traverse Bay, The Apostle Is, Mackinaw, or Lake Huron. There are a dozen free DNR launches within a few hours along the lakeshore. Sheltered lakes and harbor towns every 20 miles. Retiring in three years, want to pull the trigger on the Mac in 2015. Life is Good. Dave G


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## gedaggett (Oct 21, 2008)

climbhike said:


> Future retirement plan is to find a Mac 26 for long weekends. Dave G


Are you thinking about a 26M or the older swing Keel model? Very different boats and I personally would not want to be midlake in an M (motor sailer). Water Ballasted and top-heavy. Ok for coastal and harbor hops.


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## climbhike (Mar 29, 2013)

Looking at the older Mac S or D, also seen Hunter? with centerboard and water ballast. No hurry when retired, would check Chicago and Milwaukee forecasts before crossing or take long way around past Gary. But like the idea of towing to explore new areas. Dave G


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

Six pages and nobody has mentioned the trailer-sailing source:

The Trailer Sailor - Home


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## gedaggett (Oct 21, 2008)

I think that is a good way oy of going. I had a Macgregor 2-22 for a while and she had pretty good sailing characteristics. I had her outfitted with a used genoa from a macgregor 26 that ended up being about a 160 and in light air it really helped the boat move. I liked the 500lbs of steel in the swing keel and that made her act much more like a big boat than the i expected. I am not a huge fan of the water ballast but I have never sailed one so for me to comment on their abilities would be hearsay. I do know that in my 2-22 I could out sail a MacGregor 26 that was down the dock from me in all conditions and points of sail for what that is worth.

Here are a couple I found on Craigslist.

Sail Boat MacGregor 1989 26D









THis is the steel swing keel version. 
1982 MacGregor 25' Sailboat


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## PaddyMac (Apr 19, 2014)

So BCBRad, what did you decide? I am a newbie here and just read through these posts because I loved my Balboa 20 trailer sailor when I lived in Seattle. But a couple of things I realized may help you. First, I do think you should go visit that uncle in Vancouver a few times until you feel comfortable sailing something (maybe a dingy - less forgiving but helps you learn). Because when your trailer sailer hits the water there are going to be a thousand other things you will have to think about. Also, whatever boat you choose, plan to take some time getting to know her, that means lots of daysailing in light wind, gradually building to more challenging conditions. It's no fun, and can be dangerous, to be out in a new boat in conditions you can't easily handle. 

But personally, I found my trailer (which was old) was a far bigger hassle than my boat - and I was only a mile from the boat ramp! Raising and lowering the mast became quite easy, but I was really frustrated by the trailer (lights kept blowing, rust was a constant problem, the tongue extension was finicky...please don't make me go on)! So I ended up finding a slip for the summer and in the PNW, where winter sailing is more honored in the breach than the observance, I got to do 80% of my sailing from the dock. Good luck and let us know how it worked out!


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## Erin33 (Jul 2, 2016)

Hi,

This was rather an old post, but thanks so much for the guide to Canadian shopping options. I'm also a non-sailor considering purchasing a first boat. I know I could start with taking lessons, but for the price of lessons vs. the price of a boat, it's awfully tempting just to buy the boat and go for it. I know a few people who could show me the ropes, and YouTube is awfully educational.

I've been considering a CL-16 or a Tanzer 16, but I've also just come across the DS 16. I'd like something that is VERY unlikely to capsize (I know technique has a lot to do with this), but we'd like to have two little kids in the boat with us, so swimming should be optional. Any suggestions would be VERY appreciated, as it's starting to feel overwhelming. I definitely want the boat to be trailerable, but that's about it for requirements.

Many thanks in advance,

Erin
(in Quebec)


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