# People don't use their boats



## alanr77 (Jul 24, 2009)

After spending many weekends on my Catalina pondering things that are none of my business, I have come up with a few observations that might be worth discussing.

First, people don't use their boats. Over the last few years, mainly in powerboat type marinas as that is what I had, I have noticed that 3/4 of the boats sitting at their slips never leave their slips. For that matter, many never even get opened up more that a few times a year. I have made it a point recently to watch a group of sailboats to document their usage over the season. Of the group of boats I chose to watch. Only one went sailing between 1 and 5 times. One other was started, untied and turned around in the slip once a month. (Don't know why.) The others just sat. A huge proportion of power boats suffered the same statistics but this is a sailing forum. Why do these people own boats? I only took notice of this because a friend recently tried to get a slip in the area and could not find one. At that point I decided to figure out why. Around here it is fairly obvious as there is rarely any boat traffic in the channels. 

Knowing first hand what it costs to keep a boat in a slip, plus the added maintenance due to close proximity with salt water, why would people choose to pay this for something that they do not use? 

My next curious rant relates to this forum. I have read hundreds of posts asking the same question; what boat will take me around the world for less than $xx,xxx.... Hell, I even posted a similar post when I first joined. Many get good answers and advice. How many actually do it? I can't remember reading any post by anyone saying, "thanks for the advice, I have purchased a 19xx Bluewater boat and we are sitting off the coat of France..." Does anyone actually do it? I made the conversion from power boats to sailboats a little over a year ago and have actually taken many sailing classes, rebuilt an older sailboat of my own, helped a few other people rebuild theirs and have put hundreds of hours in holding a tiller. This to me is actively pursuing a dream. Is the lack of follow ups the reason people get slightly hostile from being asked the same questions over and over? Anyways, I feel better. What do you thinks of all this? AR


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Funny you bring this up, I was observing the same thing at my marina. Granted, normally I'm only at the marina on the weekends, and when we are there we are usually on our way within minutes, so I may not see what else goes on...BUT the last two weekends have been nothing but perfect for sailing the Chesapeake...yet only a handful of boats slips at the marina were empty? WTF? 

This seems to be the norm. Our pier has about 16 slips (all full), three are live aboards who never go out, two are project boats, the rest...IDK? 

Its not that I really care what people do with their time, their boats, but its disappointing to see people who have a boat not use it when I know several that would be thrilled. However, I'm sure there are numerous reasons why one is not using their boat?

We spend almost every weekend aboard our boat. I've always said, IF we don't spend at least 2/4 weekends aboard we will sell the boat or put it away until we can. Thats said, its fairly easy for us to spend our free time sailing. My wifes family lives 3000 miles away in Austria, so no obligations there . My parents are retired so we see them during the week, and I have one brother, who likes to do his own thing. (Don't get me wrong, we are a pretty tight family, we just don't feel the need to see each other every other weekend.) Our kids love the boat so that in itself makes it easy. 

To each his own I suppose, but I certainly get what you're saying!


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## speciald (Mar 27, 2007)

You are right. I recently been looking at power boats and have seen a number of 2001 vintage boats with less than 1500 hours on the engines; that is less than 200 hrs/yr. I'll admit that we only put 3-4000 miles on our boat each year back and forth to the caribbean and we are slowing down. Unless you use your boat (we have lived aboard for the last 7 years), it is cheaper and easier to rent a boat when you want to use one.


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## lostatsi (Jan 17, 2010)

I'll give this a shot. 
My expertise in this is perfect! I, like so many others have posted the "how much, what brand and how far can I go" My personal knowledge of sailing is about as bad as it gets. 
For 35 years I have been involved in professional auto racing. Starting out as a helper, moving through the process to driving and eventually a crew chief and manager for team owners. When I talk to people who wish they could do what I do they ask the same questions. What chassis should I get, what motor,how much does it cost?
I dream of living on a sailboat, they dream of living a life different than their own too. So they ask what might seem like stupid questions and the few that do muster the courage to try this life seldom listen to the voice of experience and spend years in junk cars with junk motors wasting money, going broke and sometimes worse. Most memorial races are named after them!
Remember that advise is to be given, not taken. 
I am very thankful that my stupid question posts are treated with such kind and insightful replys. Hopefully the people I irritate will continue to ignore me.
As for the first part of your question I can also call myself an expert. One of the amazing parts of professional racing is realizing how many truly rich people there are! They can afford to buy many "toys'' and let them just sit. Granted there are different levels of this but in my lifetime of working in an industry that serves absolutely no real purpose you quickly learn how well off a lot of people are and how quickly they move on to the next dream or distraction. Hopefully when I muster the courage to try my dream I can get a good deal from one of them!LOL


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

We refer to those boats that do not get much use as floating porches. Here on my lake, Minnetonka in the Minneapolis area. The lake is a supposedly prestigeous lake to be on. To have a boat or a home there means you got the Benjamins. People have their boats slipped there for the "Oh look at me" factor mostly. There are a few 34 & 36 footers, both power and sail, and they are too big for this lake and the sail boats sit. The powerboats, and their larger over compensating cousins do get used but that is because you don't need to tack back and forth or actually know what you are doing. There are a couple that actually have radar on them! Google Lake Minnetonka and see how big it is and draw your own conclusions on that.... 

I belong to a boat club through my sailing school at the most expensive marina, I hear, on the lake. I get to sail pretty much when I want and I see these boats sitting in a slip or hell, even on the hard all season, and I think "I will sail it for you if you don't want to!". 

So that could be part of what you are seeing. Lots of ego stroking and the whole "aren't I cool I got this boat but, I have no clue how to use it"...... 

CB


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

I'll Play:

We probably bought our boat several years to early to put the kind of usage you want to see out of me.. 

But I had the pile of cash in my hand so I said now or never....that could not have been a truer statement...even with the now cheaper boat prices, that pile of cash would have just disappeared and been spent on other bills....and there is no way I see on the horizon me acquiring that pile again any time soon.

Our intention, was to continue our yearly summer boating vacation here in the PNW as a family expanding it to possibly a month...yes you are correct we could have probably done that in style aboard a rental with the yearly slip fees we pay alone to have our own boat birthed.

We haven't gotten use of our boat for two years due to the insurance/yard fiasco nor had to pay slip fees either but irregardless of that I doubt we would get out more then one week end a month right now due to kids activities anyway.

So is it monetarily worth it as far as a sound economic move?...Heck No!

But I don't run my life on those terms alone...I tried that and ended up divorced once upon a time. 

So all those boats you see sitting are for some people the only reason to show up for work day in and day out...Its their dream rather they get time to actually live within it or not at this moment in their life...still dream they do....I don't begrudge anyone that...nor should anyone else.

Asking questions about ones dreams is as normal as breathing...I only tire of it when they are to lazy to do a search first to find out their answer was well covered yesterday.

Oh...by the way...Whats better a Ketch or a Sloop...


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## nemier (Jul 9, 2005)

alanr77 said:


> After spending many weekends on my Catalina pondering things that are none of my business, I have come up with a few observations that might be worth discussing.
> 
> First, people don't use their boats. Over the last few years, mainly in powerboat type marinas as that is what I had, I have noticed that 3/4 of the boats sitting at their slips never leave their slips. For that matter, many never even get opened up more that a few times a year. I have made it a point recently to watch a group of sailboats to document their usage over the season. Of the group of boats I chose to watch. Only one went sailing between 1 and 5 times. One other was started, untied and turned around in the slip once a month. (Don't know why.) The others just sat. A huge proportion of power boats suffered the same statistics but this is a sailing forum. Why do these people own boats? I only took notice of this because a friend recently tried to get a slip in the area and could not find one. At that point I decided to figure out why. Around here it is fairly obvious as there is rarely any boat traffic in the channels.
> 
> ...


Alanr77

People buy a boat to fulfil a dream. Half the people on this forum will get ill from the thought of selling their boat, because why they still have their boat - they still have their dream. Those folk would rather pay $1000 p/m in mooring & maintenance fees, just to keep the dream on the boil. Use the boat or not, they are boat 'owners' who at least have the potential to enjoy the sea at any time. No boat means the dream is dead.

I get a rush just thinking about taking the boat out for a burn. The 'magic' is just knowing you can enjoy it whenever you like, perhaps even decident. No boat means your daily 'happy place' is no longer available.

So, people hang onto their boats whether they use them or not. It represents a lifestyle more than the actual sailing. Case in point. A few years ago when we were in between boats, I sh1t myself when it finally dawned on me that we were boatless. Honest, I started sweating and could feel myself about to start what I'd guess you call a panic attack. It only lasted a few seconds, but I learned that I was pretty messed up about all this boat ownership thing.

One way or another, I will always own a boat in some form or other. Perhaps I might even become one of those guys you see who doesn't use his boat very often ( I doubt it ), but if it does happen, please go easy on me.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Clearly, Alan, what you've observed is the norm rather than otherwise. But at the same time, this forum, which probably represents a very small percentage of boat owners - for the most part it showcases the more active and dedicated portion. WE have active long time sailors like myself and others, and new sailors with tons of initial enthusiasm and eager to learn. (btw, lostatsi, Sailnet is probably one of the gentler forums for newbies)

To add to your observation, on a pleasant summer day the bay in front of Vancouver looks chock-a-block with boats of all sorts, racing, daysailing, powering on.. you name it. So lots of users, right? But if you flew over all the marinas in town that same day they would all still look pretty full. So even with 'heavy' use, it's still a minority of boats moored in any particular place.

We get between 60 and 80 days, 50 or so overnights every year, and that's much less than many others here. But we do feel we get the use and enjoyment that justifies our expenses. Soon Stillraining will be in similar circumstance, we all hope...

But it is a shame seeing a neglected, unused boat in a slip that you KNOW someone would kill for and can't find.

btw some clubs have a clause in their regs that require a boat to be used with at least some minimal frequency.. failing to satisfy that rule can result in a loss of your moorage rights.. I think it's the right way to go.


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## lostatsi (Jan 17, 2010)

I meant no ill of the people who own but don't use their boat. I'm not angry I'm in envy . There are a lot of people in the world that would be disgusted to think I spent $500 on a laptop so I could surf sailnet and look for nudie shots of Miley Cirus when they would spend that on a years worth of food!


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## LauderBoy (Mar 15, 2010)

Probably works the same with any sport or hobby. Most motorcycles sit unused in the garage, most motor homes never leave the driveway, mountain bikes, skis, rock climbing gear, scuba gear, etc.

I've been just as guilty of this as the next guy. My 2nd motorcycle I owned for 3 years and only put 2k miles on it. My hiking backpack has been on 1 hike. I finally sold the bike, but it took a few years of "I'm not using this, why am I paying X a month for it" to let go of it. I still sigh a little when I see a motorcycle on the road, but I traded that dream for my current one and I'm happier for it.


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## crow551 (Mar 3, 2009)

I have been looking to take the plunge for some time now and one of the reasons that I have not is exactly this. I want the boating lifestyle but in order for me to afford the lifestyle I need to keep the high paying job. If I have the high paying job then I don't have time for the boat. So it is catch22. I don't get the boat because I know that the amount of time that I have to use it is limited. But some people just take the plunge anyway. I envy those people.

But I agree with one thing that was said on this post. There are ALOT of rich people out there. Many more then the government census says that there are. They don't appreciate their money though and they get bored with their latest pet quickly.


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

Some have less time on their hands otherwise they'd be sitting there on the docks, 24/7, keeping tabs on of all of the boats in the marina.  


One thing a lot of people do is buy too much boat. Their significant others/friends aren't as into sailing, or schedules are too hard to juggle, and the boat owner can't single hand their boat. So without a crew, the boat sits in the slip.

Personally, I will always have a boat I can single hand. I like to go out by myself as much as take people with me. And I don't like to depend on people in order for me to enjoy my hobby.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Sublime.. I'd say.. yes you are right but.. Some DON"T want to even try to single hand or try to set up the boat for it.


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

deniseO30 said:


> Sublime.. I'd say.. yes you are right but.. Some DON"T want to even try to single hand or try to set up the boat for it.


It takes some guts to start doing that which is something not everyone has.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

alanr77 said:


> A huge proportion of power boats suffered the same statistics


And that's a bad thing, at least there are less huge wakes to contend with.

I think the majority are as one pointed out as it is rent on a dream. I got bit by the sailing bug when I was around 20 and have quit jobs (menial ones), made career choices, moved across the country, and other sacrifices to further my dream to sail more. Unfortunately I have never been in the financial position to buy a 10s of thousands of dollar sailboat to leave in a slip and its related costs to further the dream. When I had a 22 foot boat in the water I sailed it at least once a week. When time became scarce I took it out of the water. They can afford the boat, but not the time to spend on the boat. Maybe the amount of work it takes to pay for the boat prevents time to sail on it. Maybe other obligations, get in the way of boating. The only thing I can say is poor priorities.

The other thing that could be is some people just have too much money. Between the second, home, airplane (if you look at an airport there are a lot of planes sitting around also) and other obligations the person is too busy for the boat but just may want to sail one day. $10,000 is not too much to pay for rent on a dream is it? I too found it sad to see my dream boat sitting a few slips away from me unused.

As far as your other question about has any of these people actually followed up on these, "what does it take to sail around the world questions" I was about to ask that as well.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

*Getting very close to departure*



alanr77 said:


> My next curious rant relates to this forum. I have read hundreds of posts asking the same question; what boat will take me around the world for less than $xx,xxx.... Hell, I even posted a similar post when I first joined. Many get good answers and advice. How many actually do it? I can't remember reading any post by anyone saying, "thanks for the advice, I have purchased a 19xx Bluewater boat and we are sitting off the coat of France..." Does anyone actually do it?


I can remember asking on Sailnet for advice about a good boat for liveaboard and extended cruising and ended up with a boat that we are very confident about. We will be leaving Florida in less than two weeks for the Bahamas and then Panama and onward from there, planning to go to New Zealand in Nov/11 for the South Pacific cyclone season. It happens but it involves an enormous amount of time and a fair bit of money to actually do it. You also need to get your life in order to go which is not easy. For many of us this opportunity does not come to retirement which means you have additional questions related to health.

I also wonder about so many boats getting so little use - I suspect it is not one reason but many combinations of factors.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

killarney_sailor said:


> I can remember asking on Sailnet for advice about a good boat for liveaboard and extended cruising


Kilarney, 
How long ago did you ask this question and did you have any sailing experience at that time? I am really intrigued by someone who has actually done it.


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

*Sometimes, you just can't jump to conclusions ...*

We live aboard fulltime yet people in the marina come by and see us in our slip every weekend. So, wazzup wi' that?

We do our sailing during the week, when we have the Bay to ourselves. "Only the amateurs go out on the weekend." :laugher


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

guts? Knowing how to handle the boat, car, plane, bicycle, is mostly alone. We drive cars all over the place alone.. only because we spend so much time driving.. If anyone spends time sailing the will sooner or later be single handing.. even if the crew is all below for lunch. 

last week I saw a lady single handing her hunter vision 32. it's been sitting around a few years mostly not used. I was pleased to see her! waved! "You go girl!" I yelled over.


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## mccary (Feb 24, 2002)

Gosh, there are many reasons people don't use their boats and yet still choose to own. I will give you my situation. I have a modest, older 27' boat. It's paid for, my slip rent on The Chesapeake Bay is also modest ($1700 a year). I sail as often as I can. I work for myself and if work presents its self, I work. My daughter and family live in Boston area and I like to visit them as often as possible. I have been sailing for about 35 years, so a weekend here or there not sailing is no big deal. Maybe I could rent a boat and sail and save money, but THIS weekend is a perfect example. It was simply beautiful and I spent the weekend on the boat. If I didn't own a boat then I might have spent the weekend watching football on the tube. To me sailing and owning a boat helps with a state of mind. Sailing is for me a release from the daily grind and it doesn't matter if I sail around the world (not very likely) or just out for a couple hours, it is stress re-leaving. A quote from my boat's webpage seems to sum up this feeling:*"What a ship is, you know, it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs. But what a ship is,... really is, is freedom."*​
*-Johnny Depp, as Captain Jack Sparrow*​
*Pirates of the Caribbean-*​


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

Could you imagine what would happen if all these owners of unused boats decided to put them on the market at the same time.?


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## RedtheBear (Sep 14, 2010)

There are those who sail to go places, far away or just down the lake, trips hhat involve planing, time, stores, etc, and then there are a few that sail just for the joy of sailing. The peace of working with nature just move your boat across the water, the peace of watching the water birds at work, the fish breaking the water, the clouds moving across the sky. We are the ones that will go out for an hour or a day or a weekend, when ever we can. A can of spam, a loaf of bread with few cans of drink and we are fine. We are down at the boat "messing around" when ever we can, a coat of varnish on a grab rail, trading out a line thats a little frayed, washing bird droppings off the deck. It doesn't matter to us how far we go when we go 'cause in our minds it's over the horizon and around the world. Don't get me wrong, given the chance we would go and eta of whenever.

It's not the destination, it's the trip.


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## alanr77 (Jul 24, 2009)

killarney_sailor Thank you


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## alanr77 (Jul 24, 2009)

"Could you imagine what would happen if all these owners of unused boats decided to put them on the market at the same time.?"
________________

You might actually get a bluewater cruiser for under $10k.....


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## GCsailor (Oct 3, 2010)

I plead guilty to lurking and learning a lot on these forums long before I joined. 

In March I finally bought my boat, and have been spending much time working on it and learning about systems. Only in the past two months have I been going out, and those are to find more things to fix. *wry grin*

So, even if you all think your advice falls on deaf ears, it does not. Others are reading, learning, and keeping the dream alive.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

alanr77 said:


> You might actually get a bluewater cruiser for under $10k.....


That would be a good day for most of us. Possibly a bad day for the USCG when Steel and others actually buy a boat.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

I suspect that this year we became "one of those boats". Although the boat is very well maintained, we did not get out nearly as much as either my wife or I would like. 

My wife and I met on a blind date in '78 and our date was a night sail out of Ocean City, NJ. In '84 we bought our first boat and have been the kind of owners that are on their boat every weekend and sometimes not very much. We found that with no children or very small children, it's easy to get out every weekend and in all kinds of weather. But once the kids (especially girls) become teenagers it's far more difficult to get to the boat every weekend or for extended cruises. And I simply refuse to spend the weekend at the boat without my wife. She loves the outdoors as much as do I and I just couldn't go without her - she'd be too jealous.  

For the most part, I've seen that people that spend nearly all their time at their boat are a) without a spouse or nearly so b) childless or have grown children c) have young children. In our case, our daughter became a teen and it became very difficult to get her to come with us. Of course, we encourage her to bring friends, but that just doesn't work for "every" weekend, and I'm not about to tear her totally from her friends just so I can get my boat fix.

As my career progressed through 30 years, my time has become much more limited as my responsibilities increased. It's a wicked irony that I now have the money but not the time. Back in '84 it was the other way around. I am fortunate that my work takes me to sea several times a year, so I get some very blue water time and I count that as a boat fix too.

We found that each season is different, with it's own rhythm that mirrors life (Sailing is life, after all). To offset the teen depravation syndrome, I've started racing again. I target long distance races because that gets me some nice cruises to/from the start line. As our daughter gets older, we'll move into the grown child category and will spend more time at the boat again. So the reasons for not using a boat are varied and often relate to other facets of one's life. In our case, we're just biding our time for a couple more years.

PS. It was heavenly the last 2 weekends in the Chesapeake and we did not get on the boat. Instead, I spent both weekends tending to some much needed repairs around the house that resulted from, ironically, spending too much time on the boat. 

Sorry for the long reply. This is a situation that I spend quite a bit of time assessing.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Sabreman said:


> .....Sorry for the long reply. This is a situation that I spend quite a bit of time assessing.


No apology necessary... I thought that was a very thoughtful, on-point response!


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## waterdog52 (Oct 10, 2010)

Long time reader, first time poster. I am uanble to use mine as much as I desire. I get my poor boat out only 6-10 times a year. I usually single hand. But I wash her, check her dock lines, charge her battery, adjuster her fender lines regulely, and keep her insuance and registration current. I am proud of my ASA certifications.I am a steward of our water. I remind all the power boaters, wind was first. Columbus did did not have a turbo charger in his fleet. I go the boat, I can relax. I am generally around really good people people.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

I think it is as simple as our culture. We are just too "busy" with being (what many call) productive. Paying bills, working to pay bills, crapping out kids, etc.

I think the fact that the majority of boats never get used (but clearly have owners) is a testament to the natural tendencies of man. Man _wants_ to be free by nature, and boats by _their_ very nature offer the promise of freedom.

Problem is, living as we do goes 100% counter to actual freedom, hence the boat languishes and takes a back seat.

my 2c


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Faster said:


> No apology necessary... I thought that was a very thoughtful, on-point response!


Ditto Sabreman...and you expressed our lives almost to a tee as well.

Faster...FWIW...We cant wait to get out there with you..


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## souljour2000 (Jul 8, 2008)

Damn good thread...really cuts alot of the crap down to the bone..I guess I'm" lucky" having my boat less than a half mile away from me on a hook in the bay that I can regulalrly access via a small storm sewer City right-of-way with a canoe chained down at a beach nearby.But where I keep her is convenient and cheap but not without risk.... at least in the winter...even Gulf coast central Florida winters.The spot is exposed to NW fetch in the winter...I fret and worry sometimes...I take her out 8-9 times a year probably...but she's there...and I spend a few days a week on her I'd say just fiddling around with projects that would take half the time on the hard...but like someone said...it's the journey..even if it's just my 1/4 mile canoe trip out to her mooring a couple times a week...spotting a manta ray here...a juvenile barracuda there..on the way out to her... then some painting or wiring for a couple hours...or just cleaning off some bird crap...when I look up from a "chore"...the horizon beckons all the same...sometimes I answer the call..mostly I try to keep her ready for the weekend day trip and moving toward being ready for the trip to Puerto Rico...or at least to be in shape enuff some day to really entertain the possibility...


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## svs3 (Jun 23, 2006)

Nice thread.

I can definitely relate to the idea of boat ownership as a way to keep a dream alive. But if the boat represents freedom and "the dream" (seemly for many but by no means all) is to someday sail off over the horizon then in a weird way isn't the cost of owning a boat that is only used a few times a year making "the dream" less not more attainable? This how I see things for me anyway.

I used to sail a lot, mostly crewing on others boats but have been boat-less for the several years. Mainly due finances and the birth of a daughter. Now I am divorced and my daughter is 12 and lives nearby with her mom. So in some respects boat ownership is a little closer now than it has been in recent years. But unless I can get a trailer-sailer for virtually free or win the lottery, I don't plan to buy a boat until I am ready to really get the boat and head out over the horizon. Realistically, my timeline for this five to six years out; four to five years of working hard and trying to save as much as humanly possible and a year buying, refitting, shaking out the boat. If in the next five years I can save $20,000/year then spend appox. $20,000 to, at the most, $30,000 on the boat. I should be able to stay pointed to the horizon for a while on $80,000. We'll see. That's the plan anyway.

Until then sailing with friends, helping them maintain their boats, and reading about others will have to be enough to keep the dream alive.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

*so many boats in the marinas*

The reason for so many boats being harbor queens isn't a single reason but probably many....

status, prestige, people being satisfied with owning a boat and having enough money not to worry about the rent,

lack of crew combined with lack of ability and skill to single-hand, or inability to recruit and retain crew,

contentment with keeping a boat in a harbor as a lounge, escape pod, place to have drinks, etc.,

lack of skill or money to keep boat systems in sailable condition,

lack of knowledge to get a boat that really meets the owner's personality, interests, or skill,

boat ownership may be the dream of only one member of a couple or family who have other priorities,

boats that looked pretty when they were bought but turned out not to be enjoyable to sail,

ill health has forced an indefinite postponement of sailing dreams that people don't want to surrender entirely,

boats that turned out to have hidden problems beyond the owner's ability or budget to solve,

boats in the process of rotting and being defaulted, boats owned by estates or widows, boats owned by owners who have moved but haven't decided whether the boat is worth moving, boats whose owners have lost their jobs but don't want to sell in a down economy or who are "upside down" on loans, boats kept in memory of family events when most members of the family have moved on to other things or places.

Can you think of yet more?


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## Willis (Jan 16, 2008)

*Sabreman and Stillraining nailed it for us*

Hey all,

Sabreman and Stillraining described my situation pretty well. It's ironic because growing up in Florida I used to marvel at all of the big expensive boats tied to backyard docks that never seemed to go anywhere. At the time, I was busy sailing the gel coat off of my little Hobie 14 turbo. Now I have my own big expensive boat tied to my own backyard dock and I'm lucky if we get out one weekend a month.

It's not work that gets in the way. It is all the social obligations of my kids. There's team sports and music lessons and just the general desire to spend the weekend with their friends. My oldest son is 15 now, so you can imagine where his head is at. In the warmer months, I can bribe them with anchoring out at a good swimming hole, but as the water temps drop it is even harder to get them out there. Still, we do at least one 10 day trip over the summer with a couple 4 day weekends thrown in over the Spring and Fall, and then maybe one or two daysails a month if I'm lucky. It's not perfect, but I know there will be a day when it is just me and wife again and we'll be free to do as we please.

I do feel guilty though. My boat was meant to be sailed. It's hard to look out there and see her tied up all the time.

Chris


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## g0twind (Oct 5, 2010)

We tried to use our boat 20 times this year....Only got to 18 

I see the same thing on Lake Ontario with the power boaters, but the 4 sailboats in my marina (including me) are always out. The powerboaters think were nuts when its blowing 20 knots and 4 foot waves!


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## ereiss (Nov 25, 2002)

*$/hr*

I once calculated the $/hr to sail. This isn't a number you want to know. So I then figured out the $/hr to think about sailing. Now that isn't bad at all.

Owning a boat, planning for the next season, starting to accumulate the bits and pieces for the spring outfitting; this is almost as much fun as actually sailing for me. I thrive ont he process of gaining knowledge of and about my boat.

Thank you, all my unseeen friends on sailnet for helping me spend my thinking time most productively.


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

deniseO30 said:


> guts? Knowing how to handle the boat, car, plane, bicycle, is mostly alone. We drive cars all over the place alone.. only because we spend so much time driving.. If anyone spends time sailing the will sooner or later be single handing.. even if the crew is all below for lunch.
> 
> last week I saw a lady single handing her hunter vision 32. it's been sitting around a few years mostly not used. I was pleased to see her! waved! "You go girl!" I yelled over.


Out and about isn't so hard. Docking by yourself is where it is scary for those without experience and some just don't want to deal with that.
I believe I've heard it described as parking an exotic sports car on ice, sometimes down hill, in a lot full of other exotic sports cars.
If someone doesn't want to do that, so what? 
It takes a little more guts than a car or bicycle. Pilots get a lot of instructor training before going out alone. Not everybody learns to move a boat with hundreds of hours under an instructor.

I sail single handed most, nearly all, of the time. I don't care if someone doesn't know how to single hand their boat. I certainly don't look down upon them.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

All - Thanks for the positive replies. I almost deleted my response after writing it.

Now for the backstory. 

When I was much younger and without gray hair, I worked in several boatyards and marveled at the all the boats that went unused. I couldn't understand why the owners didn't use them. Then I graduated University, got a job, and 30 years later smiled while reading this thread. The owner of one of the boatyards in which I worked knew that I was nutty about the water and eventually asked when I'd make a life of it. At the time, I felt guilty that I didn't chuck my degree head over the horizon. 

Instead, with a wife as nutty as me, we structured our lives around the water. After school, I went from working in a boatyard to working in a shipyard two days later. Now I work about a mile from a Chesapeake tributary, see the water nearly every day, get to sea for work (I've been from Maine to the PNW including Central America and the Hawaiian Islands - about 15000 NM), and have a great boat that we use as often as possible.

I "count" as watertime anytime that I'm on the water, whether working on the boat, at sea for work, or on the dock in Annapolis at the boatshow. I think that's what's meant by "making a life of it". We're fortunate and know it; We also know that we pursued this life aggressively, so it's not accidental. Thus, we dispute the notion that all office jobs are drudgery. I love my job and would take the same path again.

Boats and how they are used reflect their owners; thus, there are an infinite variety of ways to use a boat. As long as the owner is content, who are we to judge?

PS. The reason that we stayed home 2 weekends in a row to work on the house is because I'll be on a ship for 3 weeks in November. So it all ties together. Circle of Life kind of thing....


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Free time is of course a factor too.. and the scheduling of it.. My wife and I are fortunate to both have 'summers off' so 50 or so of our annual count is all in a row in summer.

A lot of people don't have that fortunate circumstance....


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Willis..I feel for you... I know the drill well...And I can tell your a loving Father and Husband that would burn his own boat to the waterline to save family relations just like me...its just a stinkin boat after all...our family's are our lives.

Now may back ground story.

I have always worked hard but saved little...The best hourly paying job I ever had was back in the 80's during the 6 years I spent on the North Slope of Alaska's oil fields.

I Finlay decided that if I were to ever get ahead and save some money this was the time to do it...so I went the complete other way ( I always have been an all or nothing sort of guy)...well I saved so much and lived on so little I totally blew my first marriage apart..its all my fault ..she was a wonderful girl.

So fast forward 3 years later with close to 100K in the bank ( she left not wanting a dime from me...I had to literally chase her down and basically force ownership and all equity in our house on her..She didn't even want that so I sold the house and gave her all the money..I told you she was a wonderful woman)

Anyway I was fed up with the politics that became unbearable for me up there and twisted off...I always wanted another blow boat and to be around the water again as the dream with my High school best friend and I to building a 35 or 45' Bruce Roberts and sail the world still persisted...as did the memory's of past ownership of a couple blow boats before and the freedom of single handing them here in the PNW and my love for the sea.

So there I was in Anchorage preparing to move to Florida...the plan was to go to bar tending School down there and get myself a job in some marina bar or sailors hang out...to enable myself to become friends and get invited on as many different types of sailboats i could possibly get on to make my decision on which one i wanted to buy.

Then the plan was to buy 2 or 3 G-strings interVIEW crew and CREW up.. for a life of pleasure.

Well God had different plans for me and about 1 month form my planed bug out date in walks the love of my life... Asked me if Id go to church with her...I told her Baby I'll follow you anywhere..well the rest is history...Id follow her anywhere to be sure..and at that particular moment it was down to Seattle to finish 2 more years of Collage...and the Alter..

The Money got spent making House and having kids...building my own business in what I knew how to do and all life's other commitments, Growing in my faith, helping friends and aging parents whom need assistance now too.

So like I said in the previous post...when the only other opportunity I have ever had to be able to wrap my fist around another big wad of cash came around a couple years ago I didn't think twice about how it would be spent and my lovely bride understood the need and gave her blessing knowing we really could not afford the life style right now.

So the Boat is bough and paid for and beacons to be used...the plan/dream is 6 months on and 6 months off the boat... but that has to wait till all the kids are through Collage and that's 7 years at a minimum...and the Folks are either gone or settled in a retirement home as they live behind me so I can care for them right now...my father is pretty much paralyzed from the waist down from polio so you know pretty much the daily drill there. 

Yes every boat tied to a dock and every worn dock line somewhere has a story...I hope every story still has a dream...mine does.

Carry on.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> every boat tied to a dock and every worn dock line somewhere has a story...I hope every story still has a dream


Well said.


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

We did one seven day cruise, four or five weekend overnight trips, and a lot of weekend and weeknight day sailing this season. All in all, we got a good amount of use out of our boat, put a good number of miles under the keel, and had a lot of fun. Still, the time we spent untied from the dock only averages out to about 10 or so percent of the total days since the beginning of the sailing season.

I would have liked to have done more weekend overnights, but extreme July/August heat and typical lack of wind that time of year here on the Chesapeake take away a lot of the enjoyment of spending a night or two away mid season. Beyond that, it’s hard to clear too many weekends of all social, family, and household obligations - and you really do have to set aside at least from Saturday early morning to Sunday early evening. I hope that as we make more sailing friends, the desire to stay connected to those people will give us the motivation to make more time for weekending. 

What’s always amazed me more than the boats that are lightly used yet reasonably well maintained are the ones where the owner pays the slip or land storage fees religiously but leaves the boat to total neglect, sacrificing most or all of the initial value while often paying out several times the boat’s worth in storage fees.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

*Five years ago?*

sIX YE


jephotog said:


> Kilarney,
> How long ago did you ask this question and did you have any sailing experience at that time? I am really intrigued by someone who has actually done it.


I had quite a bit of experience and was looking for intelligent, second (and third) opinions). My new wife said she liked to sail and wanted to spend a lot of time on our boat but wanted something larger and more comfortable than my Niagara 35 - tough problem to deal with of course.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

This really is an interesting thread. All of the responses show the diverse reasons why some people can't find the time (or money) to use their boats to the max. 
I am a co-owner of an old Tartan 27'. I would not own this boat by myself as the cost per visit would be just too high (personal calculus). Instead I have someone to help share the costs and labor involved with keeping our boat functional. My co-owner is an old college friend and either of us could use it at any time. This year we raced in nearly every Weds. night race this season and have had a few overnights and weekend sails with friends. We used our boat a lot and always noted how many boats remain tied to their moorings while we are out. Some of the moored boats are taken out during the week when we are not there and some boats are used for weeks on end for a summer cruise up to Maine and a few spend most of the season just riding their moorings. It is sad but it it is not my problem.
Fractional ownership is not for everyone (especially live-aboards) but can help keep a boat in use for more of the active season. Finding the right partners is key but the understanding that this kind of partnership is not likely to be a 'partnership of equals' is key to making it actually work. Everyone has their strong points; some are good at wiring and electronics while others may be handy with bottom painting and engine work, for example. 
I just visited a friends 32' boat down in the Rhode River last weekend. He has a total of 3 partners in his boat. None of the partners are particularly handy so they budget some annual amount for maintenance to each of the partners - more like an LLC perhaps. Their boat gets used nearly every weekend of the season. We sailed for 3 days with 2 nights at anchor this past weekend. The boat may get used hard and put away wet but the cost per use is driven down a lot by the partnership. 
I know that many of you will shudder at the thought of bringing on even a limited partner in your boat but it is worth thinking about. You just have to find a partner who does not want to put a jacuzzi in the cabin.
Part of being an adult is recognizing that you can't always get what you want and being able to compromise.


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## RedtheBear (Sep 14, 2010)

Mercy, what a thread!
Such a simple question has lead to this. I have seldom had this much enjoyment either at a BBQ on the stern at a dock or beach with with an empromto grathering or at a club bar afer a weekend race. This is a passonate group of sailors that one can only hope to run into some time, some place so I can say "Hey grap a cold one out of the box and pull up a cushion." You are the ones that to me represent the truest and best of sailors who ply the water with blow boats of what ever size. Who take pride and the joy of boat owership and chase the dream the best they can. Yes, I am among those whose childern are grown and gone but can remember the outings with them, the joy on their face when they first took the tiller and "commanded" the boat, the first time they took her out on their own, won their first race. I also remember teaching them the stars, not those at the harbor but 50 miles out in a soft breeze and the milky way like ten thousand sequines on a black velvet cloth. The daybreak talks with my daughter and and sons of what will come and why will it be. Maybe its those memories ha draw me down to the boat tied, off and lonesome, waiting, quietly rocking, for someone to come down and talk to her, throw off her lines and take her again out to dance on the waves and sing in the wind. 
And maybe, just maybe, run into others who like me are inextrable down down to the sea, and all we ask is a blow boat and a star to stear her by.

"its the trip, not the destination"


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## DubeJ (Sep 14, 2010)

If any of you is in this category, and you have a boat not in use, and feel generous and want to give it to a young sailer, then IM me, I will accept!!! 
But seriously...


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## alanr77 (Jul 24, 2009)

Wow, I never expected my rant to take off like this. It is interesting to see the varied reasons that people have expressed. I guess I should feel lucky that I have a job that offers 30 days paid vacation a year and three day weekends three weekends out of a month. This allows me the time to spend "down at the boat". 

The argument about "to much boat to handle by yourself" has been a constant struggle for me as well. I want something larger, but the C22 is just so easy to handle that I feel moving up will take away some of the "just cast off the lines and go in 5 minutes" that I currently enjoy. But at the same time, I really shouldn't worry about it that much. If I ding the sides a little while trying to dock in a ferocious current, so what? I keep a pint of paint in the locker for that reason. 

Many of the boats I was talking about are simply neglected however. There are many with so much marine growth on the bottom that you could have a University Marine Science class at the dock. There was one particular sailboat at a local marina that unfortunately had the sail fall out of the dry rotted sail cover. It slowly kept coming out and had I not threw a bungee cord over it, it probably would have raised itself on the mast. I guess to each his own.....AR


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Oh you were ranting?...I take back every thing i said......Your right were all bums...


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## ilikerust (Apr 19, 2010)

I was just thinking about this very point this weekend. I went to my boat on Saturday to do some work on it and stayed overnight on her at the dock, to go for a day sail on Sunday. 

I had the entire marina to myself the whole time. 

Now that is not really too wierd for my marina, because it is very small and low-key. But there are a few really nice boats there. And I have seen only about three of the 30 or so boats that are there actually go out at all, ever. 

The most ironic thing, that I get a chuckle about, is the pretty good-sized, very well-equipped sailboat a few slips over from mine, named "Wanderlust", which I never have seen leave the slip. But it looks like it could pretty much go around the world, with all the hardware it's got on it. 

Then there are a few boats that amaze me to find them still on top of the water every time I show up. They certainly appear to have been abandoned at the slip. 

In the two months I've been at that marina, I get the impression I have used my boat well more than most, if not all, others who have boats there.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

The Admiral and I belong to a sail club and we've noticed the same thing. Of all the boats in the club, we rarely see a lot of empty slips. This season we were one of those. Between eye surgeries for The Admiral, one or the other of us being sick once or twice, one of the cats coming down with something that necessitated frequent attention, scheduling conflicts, a late splash (mid-June! [due in part to some of the things already mentioned]) and a bloody hot and humid, oft-times airless summer, we sailed only five times this season.

The little powerboat saw even less use. She only got out twice--and the 2nd time was for only about two hours, as we got skunked by a storm.

Jim


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## mpickering (Jun 11, 2010)

I've asked that question. One answer I've gotten is because people like to say they own a boat. For a lot of people in casual conversation that is an impressive thing to them. Over the years, I have had numerous marinas tell me about boats that sit in slips or on the hard, the fees dutifully paid by owners who never use them for months or even years on end solely to maintain the ability to say that.

To them, it is more important to own the thing than to actually use it. The prestige that goes with it is what they derive from it more than being on the water with it.

Admittedly, this past season we have not gone out as much as we'd like. We've only been out three times in six months but have spent about three times that amount of time just hanging out on the boat in the slip fishing, doing work down below and/or just relaxing. As one pointed out, for lot of people, their boat is a floating porch. Being on the water is enough, not necessarily out on it.

In my case there is no guilt. I expect a few more sailing trips before the weather really keeps us tied up and even then, I'll be sailing all winter long (Laser frostbiting). But our lack of trips out has everything to do with cautious comfort. New boat (to us), new rigging, new equipment. Just breaking it in easily. It's a psychological threshold more than anything. The knowledge we have $15K worth of sailboat we don't want to damage or sink despite being fully insured. She's no longer in the category of disposable toy but an investment we want to keep for a while.

Do 6-8 sails in a year justify the ownership expense compared to renting? Per hour probably not. But my wife and I place a high premium on convenience. The fact that we can go out on the boat at anytime when we feel like it and likewise return on our schedule has more value than the cost of ownership itself. It will improve in the upcoming seasons. We are willing to pay extra for that.

We're not rich but we choose to devote a fraction of our income to having the option to go out and sail whenever we want even if we don't. Plus, the 45 mile one-way trip to the Bay to do it factors in. That will change next year when we are living with the boat around the corner. I expect enormous usage then. And if not my C-27, I'll still be sailing during the week on my Laser or crewing on Snipes or Stars.

The day I realize I don't want to sail anymore is the day she'll go on the market. I don't need to say I own a boat to impress anyone. But until then, I'll maintain her in good condition to be ready for whenever I want to. The longest I've ever gone without being on the boat sailing or in the slip outside of the winter months has been three weeks. Even with that frequency, we are consider a regular at the marina. Some boats are lucky to see their owners let alone move once in a given year. We baby ours by comparison.

Matt


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Half our friends and relatives don't even know we have a boat...I seldom talk about it to the half that do...and only if they bring it up.

Its just a stinking boat.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Stillraining said:


> Its just a stinking boat.


I understand there's some new-fangled plumbing hose for your head that'll fix that problem.

Jim


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Funny!..


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Given how many of us (me included) have all sorts of good reasons why we don't use our boats as much as we would like, I find it interesting that there are still some who make negative assumptions about the owners of all those "other" boats that seem to go unused at their marinas.

Since I am actually in my marina only a tiny amount of time both before and after a sail, I know that the fact that I see a boat in its slip is rather meaningless in determining how often that owner uses his boat. He could have been out and returned before I even got there, or might go out after I get back, or had just returned from a week away, and I wouldn't have a clue.

More importantly, I know that I have lots of competing demands on my time, and I simply can't go out as much or for as long as I would like; I assume that my fellow dockmates have similar constraints. So unless you are someone who spends tons of time every day of the week down at the marina, and you know the personal stories of your dockmates, I humbly beseech you to give your fellow sailors the benefit of the doubt and assume they love sailing and their boats as much as you.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

mstern said:


> Given how many of us (me included) have all sorts of good reasons why we don't use our boats as much as we would like, I find it interesting that there are still some who make negative assumptions about the owners of all those "other" boats that seem to go unused at their marinas.
> 
> Since I am actually in my marina only a tiny amount of time both before and after a sail, I know that the fact that I see a boat in its slip is rather meaningless in determining how often that owner uses his boat. He could have been out and returned before I even got there, or might go out after I get back, or had just returned from a week away, and I wouldn't have a clue.
> 
> More importantly, I know that I have lots of competing demands on my time, and I simply can't go out as much or for as long as I would like; I assume that my fellow dockmates have similar constraints. So unless you are someone who spends tons of time every day of the week down at the marina, and you know the personal stories of your dockmates, I humbly beseech you to give your fellow sailors the benefit of the doubt and assume they love sailing and their boats as much as you.


Pretty much what I said in post #30:

Me:


> I think it is as simple as our culture. We are just too "busy" with being (what many call) productive. Paying bills, working to pay bills, crapping out kids, etc.
> 
> I think the fact that the majority of boats never get used (but clearly have owners) is a testament to the natural tendencies of man. Man wants to be free by nature, and boats by their very nature offer the promise of freedom.
> 
> ...


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## alanr77 (Jul 24, 2009)

mstern, I only wish that would have been what I found. Unfortunately, I volunteer to help with some of the work around the marina so I know the 24 hour staff pretty well. I have helped keep some of those poor boats floating because their owners are to busy to make sure the bilge pump still works....my initial comments we not intended to belittle anyone; they were simply observations that warranted discussion. AR


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Imagine if all those boats went out sailing at the same time - the crowding would be a royal pain.


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## Willis (Jan 16, 2008)

As far as the cost per number of uses issue goes, I could really care less. Buying and owning a boat, at least for me, is an emotional decision. My only financial rule when it comes to boats is pay cash, no financing. Beyond that, it's all about the love. 

My Mom and Step-Dad are approaching retirement age. He has this dream about buying a trawler and doing the Great Loop route. He's been asking me a lot of questions about how well boats hold their value and how much he can expect to get back out of various upgrades and stuff. I basically told him that if he's lucky, he'll break even on the purchase price and he can forget about recouping anything on the upgrades, maintenance, storage, etc.... You spend the money to get the boat the way you want it. As soon as somebody else buys it from you they are going to rip out all of your "upgrades" and add their own. That's just how it is. A boat is not really an investment, no matter how often you use it. You really do have to love it. That's why that old saying about the two happiest days in a boat owner's life is so true. Sorry for the thread drift.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Sometimes it is as simple as owners who have learned that THEIR reality of owning a boat didn't live up to their dreams of owning a boat, but they feel committed, and keep hoping that THEIR experience will improve, until they finally come to the realization, usually 4-5 years and three major expenses down the line, that they just really aren't that into boats.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

My boats on a trailer so I don't get embarrassed about how little I use it.  I have to face that everyday when I look in the driveway...


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## BenMP (Oct 19, 2010)

I think that a lot of owners just like to know that they COULD go out on the water if they wanted to and feel that keeping the option open is worth the price.


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## alanr77 (Jul 24, 2009)

bljones said:


> Sometimes it is as simple as owners who have learned that THEIR reality of owning a boat didn't live up to their dreams of owning a boat, but they feel committed, and keep hoping that THEIR experience will improve, until they finally come to the realization, usually 4-5 years and three major expenses down the line, that they just really aren't that into boats.


I agree, also, I don't think some people realize the shear amount of work that goes into boat ownership. I received an interesting quote from the girl the other day as she was talking about sailing to another couple; " everybody thinks that going sailing means cocktails on the back deck while watching the sun set. What they don't realize is that sailing is sweaty hard work!" I then laughed and told her cocktails and sunsets are earned at the end of the day............


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