# West Marine pulling out of Canada



## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Apparently they are closing all but their Toronto stores, like them or loathe them, you have to admit that for those living within reach of one, they are convenient.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

News release or link?? (not doubting you! )


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## KBuckley (Sep 17, 2008)

See item 2.05. Out of Canada as store leases expire, all gone by 2018.
WEST MARINE : Results of Operations and Financial Condition, Costs Associated with Exit or Disposal Activities, Regulation FD Disclosure, Financial Statements and Exhibits (form 8-K) | 4-Traders


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Boating Business - West Marine Closing Canadian Locations


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## Jd1 (Aug 16, 2011)

I have been able to avoid West Marine for quite a while now. I source from local merchants and via the internet. I don't think that WM's heart was ever really into the Canadian market. You can walk into any US based WM and get anything in their catalog shipped in for free. In Canada you pay more than the US prices plus $ exchange rate and they ding you for freight as well.
There are so many reasons not to shop there that in most cases I prefer ordering out of the US rather than supporting the local store.
The one exception is their fastner assortment - way overpriced but if you need a specific item it's nice to have them available.
Hopefully this news bodes well for local marine merchants!


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## MarcBfirst (Nov 7, 2013)

Bought some products from west marine in kingston then went to marine outfitters and same products where at least 50% cheaper there, decided never to go back to west marine, no wonder they are closing.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Yup, no big loss. Expensive, and clearly not really interested in the Canadian market. Actually, it will hopefully be good news for Canadians since this will free up some market space for local businesses. 

I envy folks with local chandlers. We have none up here in northern Ontario. Everything is online. But the only use I have for WM is that I can go to their website, find the item I need, and then know what the absolute top price is. I can then usually find the same thing at a Canadian online store like Binnacle, Marine Outfitters (formerly Pride), BL Yachts, or Stright-Mackay at a cheaper price, and (shocking) actually listed in Canadian $$. If I have to shop in the US it's through Defender. They are usually much cheaper, and ironically I've had far better customer service from them compared to WM.

Yup ... no big loss.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Yup.. agree. WM was closest to our marina, but another local vendor was not far away (both within walking distance) and the latter was always a preference.


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## jimq26 (Nov 7, 2001)

MikeOReilly said:


> Yup, no big loss. Expensive, and clearly not really interested in the Canadian market. Actually, it will hopefully be good news for Canadians since this will free up some market space for local businesses.
> 
> I envy folks with local chandlers. We have none up here in northern Ontario. Everything is online. But the only use I have for WM is that I can go to their website, find the item I need, and then know what the absolute top price is. I can then usually find the same thing at a Canadian online store like Binnacle, Marine Outfitters (formerly Pride), BL Yachts, or Stright-Mackay at a cheaper price, and (shocking) actually listed in Canadian $$. If I have to shop in the US it's through Defender. They are usually much cheaper, and ironically I've had far better customer service from them compared to WM.
> 
> Yup ... no big loss.


*Hi Mike - don't forget boaterbits.ca (Vancouver). Great people and excellent service. Amazing prices and always prepaid freight.*


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## jhock (Jul 28, 2013)

Darn it, I wonder if Genco in the downtown core could have lasted if WM pulled out a little earlier? I think they were badly impacted by the construction on Queens Quay and the rising rent, so maybe it wouldn't have made a difference. I've managed to avoid WM like the plague so far, but this will mean that there are no marine stores left in the downtown area (perhaps not even in Toronto proper...). Hard to believe since Toronto is supposedly the busiest pleasure boating harbour on the Great Lakes.

The Rigging Shoppe and Genco are always my go to shops, but it was kind of nice to have West Marine around for emergencies after Genco pulled their store.


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## capt jgwinks (Sep 24, 2013)

I used to work at the WM in Muskegon. Hardly been in the store since I quit about 5 years ago. Wouldn't mind if they pulled out of the US market too.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Just like Walmart, WM swept through the country buying out or putting all the other chandlers out of business. Whenever they close a store, it's like sticking up their middle finger at all their customers, because their monopoly leaves nobody left to supply the customers.
Ain't capitalism great?


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I think Genco on King St disappeared because the land values there went through the roof. I think it is only a matter of time until the same thing happens to the West Marine downtown. I used to buy sails from Joe Fernandes and his moves mirrored the changes in real estate values in downtown. Now both Genco and Triton are in Mississauga where the rents are lower. I would imagine in 10 years time the Triton location may be redeveloped too.

I have been a long-time customer at Nat's in Pickering (originally a branch of Genco). They often don't have what I want, but they can get it in and they give good customers a discount.

West Marine will not be missed.


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## bvander66 (Sep 30, 2007)

WM Kingston far from the water.
never liked their pricing.
good news for the local chandlers.
i think they never adjusted to the cdn seasonal marine market aspect.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

WM Havre de Grace, MD closed up a few months ago. Not at all surprising.

Gary


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## bvander66 (Sep 30, 2007)

WM didnt have a booth this year at Annapolis boat show.
Thought thay was strange as well.
think they mifht be focussing on a few superstores in majpr centers and web presence.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

WM hasn't bothered with the Vancouver Boat Show in years.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

It's hard to tell from their investor relations materials, exactly what happened in Canada. There was some sort of tax reval, but it didn't seem life threatening. 

As I've posted before, I'm a fan of WM. There prices are often high, but not as often as the internet gurus make out. We have a super sized WM here and I would go browse for an hour right now, if I could. That has value to me. Touching and feeling the product does too. I abhor the practice of trying on a pair of gloves or a jacket at WM and then ordering it online from a competitor. Feels dishonest. That was value the internet didn't provide.

WM has stumbled overall this past year. Still high profitable, but same store sales are pretty flat. They had trouble with their own internet platform early in the year. 

I'm not so sure about this "water life" approach to the stores. They are in process of bring more things like scuba equip and not just boating parts. We'll see. 

In the end, I go to the store routinely. Especially, when I need something right now. Or my fav is to browse when the weather is bad and my wife won't go sit in the pub with me quite yet. 

I did just order some repair parts for my jabsco head and whale sump pumps that only WM had. I can call the folks at the parts counter in the back and they will look up just about any obscure part and find it for me.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

I enjoy wandering their local super store and I used to spend a lot of money with West Marine, enough that I always had a bunch of those rewards coupons.

That's changed completely over the past two years. I'm so rarely in a WM store these days that I found a bunch of expired WM Rewards coupons in a desk drawer.

It seems the past two CEOs have had no concept of the industry they're serving. I've heard two store _*managers*_ openly criticize the new CEO who supposedly comes from an Internet retail background. He seems intent on focusing on short term gains at the expense of their long term business.

*Why I stopped shopping at West Marine*
- Cheap Chinese junk sold at top dollar. If you're going to be the Harbor Freight of marine chandlers don't charge me Festool prices.

- Prices on common items have gone from expensive to OUTRAGEOUS. Compare a can of Rust-Oleum spray paint $5.76 at Home Depot to the same can at *$15.49 at West Marine!* That's 300% higher.

This same is true when comparing West Marine to other specialty retailers. When I needed a fresh water pump for our boat two seasons ago I was able to buy TWO pumps from Scott RV for less than the cost of one pump at West Marine. Same part number.

- A focus away from marine parts and supplies onto clothing and lifestyle. In fact about the only time we stop at WM now is if we're driving by one and my wife wants to check out clothing.

- Knowledge. The teenage girl in the store is pleasant and she's perfect for helping my wife pick out clothing but she doesn't have any knowledge of boats - though I'm sure she's paid much less per hour than the guys who used to work there and were experienced boaters.

- Reduced inventory and clearancing off old parts increases short term profits (short term income and you're not replacing back stock). But if every time I go into WM the answer is "we'll have to special order that for you" they offer NO advantage over online _while charging a higher price_.

The business school perspective is if you can reduce the "time to turn" stock it's a good thing. In this market you drive customers away.

- Banks don't even keep bankers hours anymore. The local West Marine stores are open 10am - 5pm. That means I can't go after work. There isn't a WM near our boat so it's an hour and a half to two hour round trip to WM with weekend summer traffic. That's a big chunk out of your day.

Most importantly I have a local alternative.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

capta said:


> Just like Walmart, WM swept through the country buying out or putting all the other chandlers out of business. Whenever they close a store, it's like sticking up their middle finger at all their customers, because their monopoly leaves nobody left to supply the customers.
> Ain't capitalism great?


*The Return of the Independent*
The frustration you see with people venting online means a real opportunity for the little guys.

There's an old time hardware store near our marina. They also sell marine parts and supplies. Over the past few years that's gone from a part of their business to a huge addition on the store for marine supplies to building a much larger store to handle the marine business. The owner told me flat out it's because people are so frustrated with West Marine.

So what's his formula for success? He has a lot of stock. Real marine quality parts. The owner, his son and the other gentleman who work there are extremely knowledgeable. Ask for a bronze, left handed, thermo-widget and they'll walk you right to it on the shelf.

Need an individual tap, odd sized drill bit, or a small tube of 5200? No problem and the price won't make you curse out loud.

It's called customer service and when you find it you realize just how much you missed it.

*Guess who gets ALL of my boat bucks now *


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I think WM can do better

However, comparing Home Depot spray paint and WM just isn't fair. Of course, you should go to HD for spray paint. They buy it by the train load. It's only on the shelf at WM for convenience. I will bet HD sells it for less than WM pays to buy it themselves.

I am a little worried about the WM approach lately, but pricing up for convenience is not a terrible model. That was an extreme example, of course.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

And here I thought it was just Canadians that WM was treating poorly. Nice to see we're all in the same boat .


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MikeOReilly said:


> And here I thought it was just Canadians that WM was treating poorly. Nice to see we're all in the same boat .


Nah, they totally treated you worse.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

A lot of WM's problems stem from the fact that they have their headquarters in Watsonville, California. They should move to Florida.


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## Noah's Shark (Aug 18, 2014)

JimMcGee said:


> *The Return of the Independent*
> The frustration you see with people venting online means a real opportunity for the little guys.
> 
> There's an old time hardware store near our marina. They also sell marine parts and supplies. Over the past few years that's gone from a part of their business to a huge addition on the store for marine supplies to building a much larger store to handle the marine business. The owner told me flat out it's because people are so frustrated with West Marine.
> ...


Sorry, but I am nowhere near Barnegat Bay, NJ... so I can't even guess.

But I'm a big fan of independent retailers, and while I am not entirely familiar with the etiquette of this board (this is my first post) I'd like to think that you could give your supplier a well-deserved shout-out by mentioning the name of the store....


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

We still have a few local chandleries. Sort of. Most are ships stores at marinas. Mostly parts, oil, filters, etc. Sometimes clothes and knick knacks. Handy and I do use ours to try to keep it open. Very expensive. The Manager has told me the hundreds of thousands of dollars of inventory that sits in one corner and he makes about a sale per day. Doesn't pay, they do it as added value.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

I have managed to get some very good deals from WM. Not only that but having a store within walking/biking distance to where I'm anchored has saved my butt more than once. You just need to realize up front that WM is not a specialty sailboat chandlery. They sell fishing poles and lures, and have a lot of crappy stuff as well. People ignorant of what they are looking for probably pay too much there. It's the small local, yachtie suppliers who usually charge WAY too much for parts... especially if they know you're in a bind. 

I would not be at all surprised if some government tax grab sent them packing. Canada is good at that. Just look at what they did to the oil trusts a few years back.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Minnewaska said:


> I think WM can do better
> 
> However, comparing Home Depot spray paint and WM just isn't fair. Of course, you should go to HD for spray paint. They buy it by the train load. It's only on the shelf at WM for convenience. I will bet HD sells it for less than WM pays to buy it themselves.
> 
> I am a little worried about the WM approach lately, but pricing up for convenience is not a terrible model. That was an extreme example, of course.


Hey Minne, it used to be an extreme example. Not so much anymore, and that's the problem.

I'll grant you Home Depot probably buys at a lower price than WM, but that's a 300% difference. The same with my example from Scott RV. A ShurFlo pump is hardly exotic and WM likely buys a lot more than Scott, yet their price was more than double Scott's. The other serious problem is Harbor Freight quality at WM prices.

This store used to get almost all my boat bucks. Other than the wife buying clothing I probably spent less than $100 there in the last 18 months.

It's frustrating because they're the last big marine storefront retailer. For that reason alone I'd like to see them succeed.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

JimMcGee said:


> ....A ShurFlo pump is hardly exotic and WM likely buys a lot more than Scott, yet their price was more than double Scott's.....


I wonder if ShurFlo sells their product at a different price to the RV and Marine industries. Wouldn't surprise me.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Someone, presumably West Marine, is selling goods on Amazon under the merchant name "West Marine". So who needs hundreds of expensive stores, when they can give a percent to Amazon and have the drones drop stuff off right in your cockpit?


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

I have found that Defender's retail prices are comparable to the WM Port Supply discount prices. Of course, Defender's shipping makes up for it

Torresen Marine (I think they're now Toad Marine) also gives PS-comparable prices, or they did on their line


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Defender does have good prices, although, shipping is never free. WM occasionally offers free shipping.

I have, however, needed to order from each of them at the same time. Principally because Def didn't carry something that I did find at WM. In some rare cases, the total cost of Def, with shipping, was actually higher.

Here's my latest example.

A Whale gusher pump 220 clamp ring:

Defender $21.99 http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|51|2234245|2234252&id=1123242

West Marine $19.99 http://www.westmarine.com/buy/whale-pumps--whale-pumps-service-kits-parts--P011_331_003_004


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## ottos (Aug 12, 2008)

Noah's Shark said:


> Sorry, but I am nowhere near Barnegat Bay, NJ... so I can't even guess.
> 
> But I'm a big fan of independent retailers, and while I am not entirely familiar with the etiquette of this board (this is my first post) I'd like to think that you could give your supplier a well-deserved shout-out by mentioning the name of the store....


I second that, Jim...and I am close enough to BB to visit them (on occasion)


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

When I lived onboard in NYC, Defender and the US post office conspired to offer incredible service. If I ordered before 4 pm it arrived before 9 am the next morning with the cheapest shipping level. I ordered stuff from Pago Pago in American Samoa and the Defender lady had the zip code for general delivery at hand. Didn't arrive next morning though.  I am a Defender fan.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

ottos said:


> I second that, Jim...and I am close enough to BB to visit them (on occasion)


Hey Ottos, Bob's Square Deal on Rt 9 in Forked River. Old time hardware store that also carries a ton of boat stuff. Not at all fancy. They're just south of Lacey Rd. on your left. For Universal parts I'll hit Silver Cloud (also on Forked River).

If you're coming up from OC it's going to be an hour drive though. There has to be somebody good closer to you...


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## ike smith (Nov 22, 2014)

In BC we have three Steveston marine stores and check out their website
Great selection , pricing and service.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

At the end of September, 2015 the last WM on Vancouver Island will close. 
It is rumored that Steveston Marine may be opening a location in Nanaimo. This would be a great business opportunity as we will only have one chandlery in town after WM is gone.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Dog Ship said:


> ...... as we will only have one chandlery in town after WM is gone.


But it's a pretty good one, and within easy walking distance of the harbour!

We buy at Steveston over WM for the most part, even though WM is closer. Steveston Marine is a long, long time local business.

For on-line suppliers I've had great service from both Defender (they'll ship to Canada - others won't) and Binnacle in Halifax.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

Hey Ron, how's things.
I swear we sailed past you a couple of months ago just north of Gabriola. We were headed north and you were headed for Nanaimo harbour.
Anyway, Nanaimo's Harbour Chandlery is one of those Chandleries that you never forget about. Excellent inventory, they have all the widget's you could imagine and a very well informed staff of long time boaters that are most helpful. The place is literally over flowing with products at reasonable prices.
We shop there all the time.
Over the years I have found WM to be great for Christmas gifts and clothing. They also have some really nice slippers there that I have been meaning to pick up, but hey Christmas is right around the corner.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Dog Ship said:


> Hey Ron, how's things.
> I swear we sailed past you a couple of months ago just north of Gabriola. We were headed north and you were headed for Nanaimo harbour.
> ...


Totally possible.. we were in and out of the GIs a few times this year. Also was thinking of you when we spent a night at Schooner Cove.

'Twas indeed another great summer!


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## Biggsy (Jan 1, 2015)

The Dock Shoppe has reopened at the old Genco location beside the Beer Store,at Harbourfront (lots of FREE PARKING) watch for their Grand Opening in the spring. They will have a dinghy dock in the Peter Street basin north of the Marine Fire Station.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Biggsy said:


> The Dock Shoppe has reopened at the old Genco location beside the Beer Store,at Harbourfront (lots of FREE PARKING) watch for their Grand Opening in the spring. They will have a dinghy dock in the Peter Street basin north of the Marine Fire Station.


That's great news. I was dismayed the last time I wondered down Queens Quay to their store, only to find it gone. They were always the real chandler; you never knew what treasure you'd find in their packed shelves. But it was run by real sailors who actually knew their stuff, and could problem-solve with you.


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## bvander66 (Sep 30, 2007)

Another problem WM has is location. Kingston On they are in a mall no where near water.
Daytona they had a store you could dingy to from the anchorage, in middle of marina, now out airport 5 miles from water.
many other examples where they are no where near the water.


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## scottbr (Aug 14, 2007)

Mason's, Port Credit has always been my "Go To" store. Always great staff and knowledgeable. Unfortunately their online version was not up to current standards. All should change soon with new owners.

Next fav. is Marine Outfitters for online shopping. Have lots of items available, quick shipping and very good prices.

WM was only for convenience in Midland when I needed something right away, which dwindled significantly in the last couple of years.


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## alctel (Jan 25, 2014)

West Marine really half-arsed their entry into Canada - they didn't even have a canadian website, all the prices are in US and totally different to what they charge!

They were also super overpriced, but I used them occasionally because

- They were open Sundays, unlike the local chandler (who is my primary parts source)
- They would price-match literally anything, from any Canadian store, as long as it had a physical Canadian location. 
- Occasionally they would have a huge sale on something I actually wanted.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

Some of you folks make no sense. You knock wm because they are a big box and put small marine stores out of business, then you say how cheap paint is at home depot. How many small hardware stores do you think hd put out of business? We have met the enemy and it is us. Personally I have found wm about the same price for items I buy like VHF, line, fenders as the other larger stores including pure Internet stores. I like the fact if I have a problem with an item I can return it to a store without paying air freight. Btw, stores like hd sell a lot of Chinese junk too- and we the consumer drive that trend, we want cheap junk...


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

casey1999 said:


> Some of you folks make no sense. You knock wm because they are a big box and put small marine stores out of business, then you say how cheap paint is at home depot. How many small hardware stores do you think hd put out of business? We have met the enemy and it is us. Personally I have found wm about the same price for items I buy like VHF, line, fenders as the other larger stores including pure Internet stores. I like the fact if I have a problem with an item I can return it to a store without paying air freight. Btw, stores like hd sell a lot of Chinese junk too- and we the consumer drive that trend, we want cheap junk...


Good point Casey, but that is not my perspective. I'm no fan of _any_ of these humoungous transnational corporations. They all do the same thing; destroy local economies and suck all the wealth out of global regions everywhere, all for the benefit of the very few corporate owners.

We are indeed the enemy. We chase the lowest price ... at any cost.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MikeOReilly said:


> .....all for the benefit of the very few corporate owners......


Ironic. Almost all Fortune 500 stocks are held in retirement investment accounts. I dare say that the vast majority of little old retired couples actually own HD.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> Ironic. Almost all Fortune 500 stocks are held in retirement investment accounts. I dare say that the vast majority of little old retired couples actually own HD.


Yes ... exactly.

As Casey quoted: "We have met the enemy and it is us."


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

No West Marine booth at the Toronto Boat Show. This morning, SWMBO and i walked from our hotel to the store to see if there were anty "gotta have it" bargains. Sign on the door said "75% off orange tagged merchandise". Cool! Except there weren't many orange tags in evidence, the vast majority of what was left was still at full retail, and what was tagged was largely old stock, and scratch and dent type stuff. I hadn't been to a West Marine since 2008, when i purchased a pair of deck shoes and a set of third reef foulies, and while I thought we got a decent deal in '08, the prices I saw today struck me as just silly high. Maybe the best deal was an opened box of magma nesting cookware (10 piece set), 75% off... of the original tag, $269.99.


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## boatboy132 (Dec 21, 2011)

The Toronto store was one of the first stores to go, the other week, but for Toronto being a big water front city, they only have one marine store now on the waterfront The Dock Shoppe, since WM closed and genco marina moved over to port credit,


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## i_amcdn (Jul 4, 2012)

Well damn as boatboy pointed out to me in another thread WM downtown is gone, 
I am on the hard near Cherry and Commissioners street so WM was a 5 min drive away. With all of the construction on Queens Quay I never ventured to Genco downtown.

May to Oct I am docked in Lakefront Promenade so Genco's Mississaugu store is drive by shopping for me. 

Holland Marine makes WM prices look cheap. Mason's is just a "bridge too far" as I come from the east.

If I am at Bluffers visiting / sailing with my friend I will swing by The Rigging Shoppe and will do so more often now that I know Larry, ex of WM, is there.


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## redfishnc (Jan 22, 2017)

When I worked in Pickering (2002-2004,ex-pat) I bought and ordered stuff from a guy that had a little shop in a strip mall there. Nice guy and fair prices. That was in 2004. Not sure if he is still open but a drive from downtown. I live in Wilmington, NC and WM is the only game in town. Their prices are high no doubt, but they have what you need at times and you don't have to wait for 4 days to get it. Its not such a loss anymore though as they are changing their stores. Moving towards clothing, fishing and more crap you don't need. Then we will have nothing but postal.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Holiday here today, needed steering cable, West Marine were open, had the stuff in stock and the tools to make them. Can't really argue with that. Not a single other chandler in the area is open on Sundays let alone holidays.


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