# How much wind is too much for you?



## Dave_E (Aug 7, 2013)

Hi All,

Back in my Navy sailing days (San Fransisco Bay) we were not allowed to take boats out if the small craft flag went up. On a 19' Rhodes or a Capri 22, I understood that. The wife was asking me where our cutoff point would be with our new ride. I said I didn't think 20k of wind was a stopper for the boat, the hardest thing would be docking manuevers. 

For boats 30' and larger, what kind of wind will you go out in just to play?

Dave


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I'm just under 30, and have been out in mid 40's! great time, even got a pickle dish at the end of the day!

De[ending upon where you sail, sail setup options, 20-40 is not hard to be out in. Assuming you have at least a double reef option and a smaller than 110 sail. or willing to sail under a reefed main or 110 only. You need to go out and figure out what sail combo works best for YOUR boat, not mine! While what works for one, may not for another in certain conditions etc, how you boat is balanced vs mine etc.

Marty


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Somewhere between 25-30 knots true (so 30+ knots apparent) things get a lot less fun for me. My boat only has a single (deep) reef and a roller furling 135% genoa, so I can't get a small enough sail area for those conditions. Someday I'll add a solent stay and second reef and be able to run a storm jib with double reefed sail for stormy weather.

Big winds also come with big wind waves. If the wind is against the current so they are short and steep then the ride gets pretty uncomfortable (and slow) in waves much over 4 or 5'.

If I lived somewhere that had these conditions on a regular basis (like San Francisco Bay) then I'd configure my boat for them and still have fun. Here in Seattle 5-10 knot days are the norm and 15-20 knots is a high wind day. >20 knots true is very rare.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

I can assure you I have been in strong winds in the last 35,000nms.
But they have always been when I was at sea. There is no way I'd go out if the forcast was 20 or more (unless downwind in the Trades)

Why?

Because I am a cruiser. I can wait out the weather.
Grib files are often 5 knots less than actual so 20 would be 25.
25 knots on the nose is 30 on the deck
I am too poor to replace geer broken.
Because no one on board but me will enjoy 30 over the deck.

Mark


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## blutoyz (Oct 28, 2012)

I find that over 20 it is too much work because it will gust over 30 and you have to watch that. 

My boat is fine on headsail alone and with the roller I can run as much cloth as I like but it is still too much work for an enjoyable daysail.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

I have a 38 foot Center Cockpit. (Irwin 38 CC MkII) that weighs in at 20k pounds. 

I've been out in 28 kts, but the forecast was for 22 - which is my limit not because of what the boat can handle but because breaking equipment is not fun.

A small craft advisory is, just for what it's worth, targeted at US, all of us.
I say that because if you are a reader here on sailnet you probably have less that 100 footer


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> I can assure you I have been in strong winds in the last 35,000nms.
> But they have always been when I was at sea. There is no way I'd go out if the forcast was 20 or more (unless downwind in the Trades)
> 
> Why?
> ...


This.

I also agree with Bluto and Alex - above 30 and you're working too hard. I've sailed only once in 40+ (with reefed main only as we only had a hank-on headsail) and it was a bit scary. It WAS fun...in an "oh crap" kind of way - but not what I wan't to "go out in".

That said, we will eventually take our new Hunter 40 out in 30...simply because we need to know how to handle her in such conditions. But I'm in no hurry.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

My boat is happy with full sails UP to about 16 Knots true in all around sailing after which we start various reefing plans to keep things friendly 

In my area Long Island Sound the sea state the wind direction causes and what direction I need to go is a bigger factor 

If we have a strong NE wind for a day and it builds up to a 5' swell with a 4 second period it is really NOT FUN SAILING


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

We've been out in 20-30kt, but I wouldn't choose to do so. Our preferred wind speeds is 10-15kts. We typically won't head out if we don't have to if the wind is forecast for 18-20kt or higher. 

Obviously, there are lots of other variables that play a role (crew, waves, wind direction, rain, etc.).


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

When I was younger, I would go out in almost anything and just reef down. Now, if it's already blowing 25 knots, I just don't feel like working that hard and wait for another day.


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

As I often singlehand as well as the fact I have pmce inlet to contend with anything over 25 is not worth the risk. Because of my small engine I cannt come back in early if I get eat up I have to wait for teh flood. Small craft advisory sailing is fun, but not alone for 6 hours or more with a lee shore close by.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

In my expericence it depends several things, who is with me, how long has the wind been blowing hard and the resulting sea state, the expected point of sail, and destination to some degree, are we out on a extended cruise of just for the day?

The first year we had the boat we headed out in 30 and after about 15 minutes we turned around.  Earlier this spring we headed out in similar wind and had a great sail to Broad Creek. 

The Chesapeake can develop some short tall chop pretty quickly, beating into that can be an exhausting experience, especially with two small children aboard. 

We have no problem going out in 20-25, over 30 and we start considering hanging in the river or just doing some projects in the slip if we have a choice. 

We took the boat out a couple of years ago just after the Christmas holiday to Annapolis for a last sail of the year and ended up staying in Annapolis for a few days to let a gale pass by, 40 + with a wind chill of minus 10 wasn't appealing


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

We typically take our first reef at about 20 knots. Anything that has us heeled more than 15-20 degrees makes my much better half too uncomfortable and if she's not happy, the ship's not happy. Off shore, if we're running off, 25-30 knots true is not much of an issue but it can be exhausting after awhile and it makes preparing meals something of a trial. For day sails, if the weather predicts more than about 20, we'll pass.

FWIW...


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## Quickstep192 (Jan 6, 2001)

I read somewhere that a rule of thumb is approximately 1 knot of wind per foot of boat length. I've been out in my 24' boat in 24 kt winds and wouldn't have wanted to deal with much more. I've been out in my friends 46 footer and felt comfortable in 35+kt winds.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

It's one thing to be out and have the winds rise, but, I would not be leaving a comfortable slip with a spouse to go "pleasure" sailing in 34 knots of wind and expect to achieve marital bliss. 

10- 15 kn. true (15 to 20) on the nose.. is fine.. It has to be fun for everyone.


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## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

If the wind is blowing above 20 kn, I don't leave the slip, well sometimes I do but double reefed and very quickly regret going out.

At 16 ft LWL my boat gets to its 5 kn hull speed in winds 10 kn to 15 kn, after that our typical gusts 5 to 10 above wind speed makes for too much hard work.

Being out single handed and in building winds is different, then it is reefing and adapting, especially if my destination is 3 or 4 or 6 or more hours away.

The other side of the question would be how little is too little wind for you?

I will go out in almost no wind for a controlled drift at less than 1 kn.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

svHyLyte said:


> We typically take our first reef at about 20 knots.


I wonder if I'm the only one who reefs depending on wind direction and wind speed, not only wind speed.

I reef at about 15 knots true when going upwind (that is close to 20 knots apparent and where my tender boat is heeling at about 20 degrees). However when we turn back downwind, or even for a beam reach, I'll shake out the reef to get better performance. My reefing controls make it easy to reef (or shake out the reef) while tacking. I don't feel the need to reef downwind until we are seeing >20 knots true.

In one race we had 22 or 23 knots true going downwind against current and in biggish (4 or 5') steep waves. That was no fun as the boat was starting to broach as we went down the face of each wave. Finally we rolled up the genoa and started to surf nicely down the waves and no longer broaching. For a while we were sustaining 8-9 knots SOG, a speed that I never expected to see when going against a 1 knot current. The upwind leg of the same race was terrible, we were overpowered (at the worst moment the primary winches were under water) and heeling excessively and having trouble controlling it. Having had limited experience in those conditions did mean we had a terrible result in the race, but it gave me a lot to learn about heavy condition sailing.

The best thing for me that weekend was going out again the next afternoon and trying some techniques to better handle my boat in high wind conditions. It took sleeping and rest to think through what went wrong and how to better handle them. I figured out what was preventing my sails from getting flat enough (the worst offender was an overly tight leech line, adding a backstay tensioner also helped) and used non-race time to figure out what sail plan best balanced my boat in high winds. Now I know and have more fun when the true wind is getting into that 20-25 knot region.

In July we crossed the Strait of Georgia close hauled in 20-25 knots true with 1-2 meter waves (weather report and what we saw) and I had a great time. We were close reach to close hauled, reefed main, genoa rolled up to about 110%, heeling about 15-20 degrees, helm was extremely well balanced, and maintaining hull speed. My wife hated it those dynamic conditions, but I really had a great time and was disappointed when the wind died as we hit the eastern side of the strait. These are the same conditions that were really hard for me on the same boat only a few months earlier.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

In addition to gear breakage, ordinary simple things like getting in and out of the slip or raising anchor, raising and dousing sails, gybing and tacking, or just hanging on to a chartbook in the cockpit, can become ordeals in high winds. My wife does not really like anything above 10 knots; I doubt I would voluntarily go out solo with predicted winds above 20 knots now, unless on a cruise. That said, it is interesting to experience higher winds and learn how your boat reacts. In my previous boat, a P26, I voluntarily went out of the slip in predicted 25 - 30 knots with its small mainsail only, and had an enjoyable sailing experience.


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## doug1957 (Dec 13, 2011)

Generally, we'll stay in with a forecast over 20 kts. 10 to 15 is great and over 25 is a lot of work. Can deal with the high end if caught out in it, but I'm not looking for it.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

If I am racing with a crew and boat that I trust I am game for just about anything....Bring it on! Usually the race committee calls the race before we do. Racing a 30ft keel boat on a full plane for sustained periods is just too much fun to pass up!

On the other hand, on my boat with the family, over 20 kts is too stressful for the wife. We have crossed the Georgia Strait in a tight reach when it was blowing in the 20s. The boat performed beautifully with a full main and a #3. I had a great time even though it was exhausting work, but my wife was quietly terrified the whole way across.

Now give me a Laser and 25kts of wind? I'm all over that!


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I believe it really makes a huge difference where one is sailing. When one wants to go sailing in Alaska, if you don't sail in small craft warnings, you are not going to get too many sailing days in a year. In Charleston to New England, heavy weather days are rarer, but a lot of your sailing can be inside bays or on sheltered waters.
Here in the Caribbean you have the normal trades 10 to 18/20 knots generally. With them come seas in between islands that may be 3 to 8 feet, not necessarily a bad day for sailing. But come the Christmas Winds, which may last 6 weeks or more (they lasted through mid April the year before last) you can either hunker down and allow your anchor chain to become a marine park, or you can hank on a smaller jib, reef the main to the size of a handkerchief and go forth young man. It may not be the best day of sailing, but the boat should go quite well and with smaller sails you shouldn't break anything on a well found boat.
But it does depend on your boat and experience level. A cruising boat, with properly set up standing rigging, good running rigging, a proper compliment of cruising sails and an experienced mariner at the helm should not feel that even a 35 knot day is anything more than a bit less comfortable than a 20 knot day. 
Personally, I'd be much more likely to sail on a 30 knot day with a steady wind and clear skies than a 15 to 20 knot day with numerous thunderstorms around.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

On my boat (3,000 lbs) it's still fun to sail in 25-30 all day long. We've had the boat in 35-38 true and you're pretty much just hanging on at that point and worrying about breaking stuff. 

If I'm on other people's boats, it's up to them, I'll go out in 40 if I feel the boat and crew are up to it. I don't have to pay to repair it.  But usually no one wants to head out if it's blowing 30 at the dock.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

We do not leave harbor when there are small craft advisory conditions. Of course, once we are passage making we may encounter stronger (Sometimes MUCH stronger) winds but that is far different from intentionally setting out in difficult conditions. 

Personally, I would be happy if I never see winds over 15 knots again.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Keep in mind when comparing replies that SCAs are location specific. The National Weather Service in the PNW has different criteria for what they consider a SCA than does the NWS office that covers the Chesapeake.

And for the new-to-sailing, it's not just the force of the wind, it's also how competent you are and how seaworthy your boat is.

Just a thought to throw out there.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

DRFerron said:


> Keep in mind when comparing replies that SCAs are location specific. The National Weather Service in the PNW has different criteria for what they consider a SCA than does the NWS office that covers the Chesapeake.
> 
> And for the new-to-sailing, it's not just the force of the wind, it's also how competent you are and how seaworthy your boat is.
> 
> Just a thought to throw out there.


Indeed. 25 kts and 8 ft seas in the Alenuihaha channel  is not the same as 25 kts and 8 ft seas in Admiralty inlet.


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## TJC45 (Jul 10, 2013)

It's been a while since I've skippered the 35 Beneteau i owned many years ago, but little stopped us. I remember sailing on a roiling Chesepeake bay with winds whipping 40s or more. That the boat could take it wasn't the decider. As posted, really is no fun once it gets that wild. For one thing, it's damn wet! You need to really pay attention to every move, every wind gust. Sailing on certain courses becomes too dangerous. So, it comes down to only sailing in those conditions when there is little or no choice. 

As posted by Smack it is a really good idea to take your boat out in high wind conditions a few times to get a feel for how it will respond. Better to find out when you are up and ready for it, have additional experienced crew onboard, and are in friendly waters than out there! The best practice area, so to speak, is a place where you can instantly reduce the fetch if things get too wild. Like ducking behind a head point of land or into an inlet. Ideal if that calm area is the marina you are sailing from.

I do this with my Hobie16. Sailing from the western shore of the bay, or even from the beach, any west wind needs some distance to get things cooking out on the water. Stay in close and things stay calm. Go out beyond a mile and hang on for the A ride!


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

We were out 2 weeks ago when it was forecast to be 10-15kts. It turned out to be 15-20, with gusts into the mid 20's when I looked at the historical data. I was counting on the 10-15, so I didn't reef the main or jib. We were heeled over pretty good at times (we learned that our cockpit cushions need to be snapped down), but the boat handled everything just fine. With another person or two and without my kids or when my kids are older, I'd probably go out with forecasts in the 15-20 range, expecting a bit more. But if the gusts are expected to be in the high 20's or more, like the folks above, I'd probably bag it.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> I wonder if I'm the only one who reefs depending on wind direction and wind speed, not only wind speed.


You're not. Highly dependent - in 25 kts downwind, I'm flying a spinnaker and howling. Upwind, I'm reefed, wet, and working hard.



> it is a really good idea to take your boat out in high wind conditions a few times to get a feel for how it will respond.


Absolutely true but I think that it takes a bit more time to get comfortable with higher wind conditions. Almost anyone can bear 30 kts for 30 minutes but to get truly comfortable, it takes more time. Conditions that are really scary in the first 30 minutes become "Yeah, whatever" after 15 hours. Then make it go dark.

I have found that by racing, we sail in a greater variety of conditions. Over time, that has increased our level of confidence in light air and heavier air. We do not have a set wind speed for when we stay at the dock, depends on a lot of things.


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

Quickstep's rule..."I read somewhere that a rule of thumb is approximately 1 knot of wind per foot of boat length."Makes sense.

We have never been uncomfortable because the worst our 55 ft boat has been in is 54 knots!

However, you do need some very deep reefs.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

I don't have a set "number". It's the totality of conditions- Wind, current, direction, duration. All of these combine to make a picture where you decide if you should go or not.

20kts from the west here, is not the same as from the north or south. Is the current against the wind? That's a nasty chop. If the current is with the wind, it's a smoother ride.

I've raced my Pearson 30 in 32kts of wind. I've raced with zzgta (who posted in this thread) in 30-ish. There are more variables at play here than just wind speed.


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

Current set and drift are factors. Wind speed of course. Precipitation or squalls another. Depending on location you can have tidal effects, land winds, and of course the dreaded lee shore and also time of year (temps both air andd water) and daylight to nighttime hours of operations.

Then you step into boat readiness from rigging to blocks to lines to sails and throw in skipper and crew status and you have more variables than einstein would care to meander through.

However 25 knots offshore vs 25 knots in coastal waters make big difference in sea states which for me is the biggest indicator of yes or no.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Normally I don't go out if wind in more than 20, but I do sometimes. Just like sometimes I don't go out in 15 knot wind.

What is the difference, the seas. If the waves are getting tall and the period between short I will take that into more account than the wind. Flat seas and 30-35 knot wind isn't the same as 15 knot wind and 6 foot seas every 5 second! I can reef for the wind, all I can do for the seas is hang on and watch things below fly loose.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

I usually won't take the boat out in anything much over 15 or 20 kts if I'm by myself, a bit more if I have another experienced person on board (a bit less with The Admiral and/or our five-year-old). But our harbor (King Harbor/Redondo Beach) is almost always on a lee shore. So, to get out of the harbor I have to beat into the wind and swell for a while before the breakwater and pier are far enough downwind for me to relax. On the other hand, I don't really mind if the wind builds during the day to 25 or 30 kts, as I can always run (or broad reach) back to port. Unfortunately, the entrance is often a cross-wind and cross-swell situation (and the fact that the harbor is at the head of a submarine canyon can make the swells pretty nasty), with breakers at the mouth sometimes prompting the Harbor Patrol to close things down on particularly bad days.


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## RainDog (Jun 9, 2009)

I love sailing in 30 or even 40 knots, but only in protected waters. I would never go out into the Gulf of Mexico willingly if the waves were over 6'. Just too damn uncomfortable. In the bays around here once it gets over 25 knots, you are going to get wet for sure, but it is still fun with the right crew. On Lake Travis 40 knots is fun any way you look at it. You are still dry and the chop is still < 2'. Plus you are the only one on the lake.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

blt2ski said:


> De[ending upon where you sail, sail setup options, 20-40 is not hard to be out in.


Hell of a difference between 20 and 40 knots. In fact if you double the wind speed you quadruple the force on the sail. It all depends on the boat, the point of sail, the crew, the purpose of the sail, and its duration. Coming across the Indian Ocean we had 25 to 35 knots for a couple of weeks, we were broad reaching, on a strong 20 ton boat with an experienced crew. Completely different than choosing to go out in 30 knots in a lighter boat and having to return to your starting point, all with an inexperienced crew (and captain). I am part of that, ' there are old sailors ...' group.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> We have never been uncomfortable because the worst our 55 ft boat has been in is 54 knots!
> 
> However, you do need some very deep reefs.


We've been in 33 kts to windward for 15 hours and while "athletic" we were safe and comfortable except for when we hit Chesapeake Bay 6' square waves, which was every 4 seconds. I like that rule of thumb.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

When I was just getting into sailing a friend told me that when a small craft warning was posted, that meant good sailing. 

He was right.

When it gets well over 30 I won't head out if I have the choice. 46 is the most I've been out in and it wasn't really fun although not scary.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

vega1860 said:


> Indeed. 25 kts and 8 ft seas in the Alenuihaha channel  is not the same as 25 kts and 8 ft seas in Admiralty inlet.


No, what I mean is, in Area A an SCA may be 10 knots and 3-5 foot seas. In Area B it may be 20 knots and 1-2 foot seas. Every location is different.

http://forecast.weather.gov/glossary.php?word=Small Craft Advisory

_Small Craft Advisory
(SCA) - An advisory issued by coastal and Great Lakes Weather Forecast Offices (WFO) for areas included in the Coastal Waters Forecast or Nearshore Marine Forecast (NSH) products. Thresholds governing the issuance of small craft advisories are specific to geographic areas. A Small Craft Advisory may also be issued when sea or lake ice exists that could be hazardous to small boats. There is no precise definition of a small craft. Any vessel that may be adversely affected by Small Craft Advisory criteria should be considered a small craft. Other considerations include the experience of the vessel operator, and the type, overall size, and sea worthiness of the vessel. * Eastern (ME..SC, Lake Erie, Lake Ontario) - Sustained winds or frequent gusts ranging between 25 and 33 knots (except 20 to 25 knots, lower threshold area dependent, to 33 knots for harbors, bays, etc.) and/or seas or waves 5 to 7 feet and greater, area dependent. * Central (MN..OH) - Sustained winds or frequent gusts (on the Great Lakes) between 22 and 33 knots inclusive, and/or seas or waves greater than 4 feet. * Southern (GA..TX and Caribbean) - Sustained winds of 20 to 33 knots, and/or forecast seas 7 feet or greater that are expected for more than 2 hours. * Western (WA..CA) - Sustained winds of 21 to 33 knots, and/or wave heights exceeding 10 feet (or wave steepness values exceeding local thresholds * Alaska (AK) - Sustained winds or frequent gusts of 23 to 33 knots. A small craft advisory for rough seas may be issued for sea/wave conditions deemed locally significant, based on user needs, and should be no lower than 8 feet. * Pacific - (HI, Guam, etc) - Sustained winds 25 knots or greater and seas 10 feet or greater; except in Guam and the northern Mariana Islands where it is sustained winds 22 to 33 knots and/or combined seas of 10 feet or greater. "Frequent gusts"are typically long duration conditions (greater than 2 hours). For a list of NWS Weather Offices by Region, refer to the following website: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/organization.php_


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## 67rway (Aug 16, 2013)

Many 'way back when' comments, to which I can say 'me too'!

Back in my catamaran days we didn't bother without small craft advisories, once having a Coast Guard chopper seemingly follow us to and fro...

Nowadays it really depends on who's on the boat, but generally would avoid 25+.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

i sailed a sloop bashing like crazy in gom in 71 kt winds--egads not fun--i sailed same sloop in all kinds of wind--was way too uncomfortable to enjoy. even with only a small corner of the jib out...
this barge i sail n0w---split rig so i can use mizzen and jib when i sola --winds come up in darktime on pacific coast--we did a 60 kt chubasco with mizzen and jib and was very comfortable--i am impressed with this boats capabilities in winds. i wasnt worried or concerned about my autopilot--it was holding excellent course--no waivering or faltering--perfect boat for winds. much more comfortable in winds than in calms-- she likes those good breezes over 15 kts.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

The forecasts here are almost always wrong, and I don't have an anemometer on the boat, so how much wind is too much? Depends on the depth and quality of my hangover.

On my old boat, I had gradually worked up from 10kts seeming scary to roaring around with a double reefed main and a 115% genoa in 30kts grinning like an idiot.
The new boat is still taking some learning, especially as I discovered yesterday in a nice solid 20kts that the reefing system doesn't work and I had better sail shape with a full main and genoa rolled fully out. That did also mean sustained periods of reaching at just under 8kts which was fun, but it's a lot of work when you are by yourself.
So far then, the answer is no wind is too much, but I couldn't see myself going out for fun by myself if the forecast is over 30 and it actually looks like it.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

killarney_sailor said:


> Hell of a difference between 20 and 40 knots. In fact if you double the wind speed you quadruple the force on the sail. It all depends on the boat, the point of sail, the crew, the purpose of the sail, and its duration. Coming across the Indian Ocean we had 25 to 35 knots for a couple of weeks, we were broad reaching, on a strong 20 ton boat with an experienced crew. Completely different than choosing to go out in 30 knots in a lighter boat and having to return to your starting point, all with an inexperienced crew (and captain). I am part of that, ' there are old sailors ...' group.


I do agree with what you say. Now if you would have quoted my WHOLE POST, which did say/imply as the wind goes up, one needs to be able to reduce sail to fit the boat type, wind conditions etc.....

So with that!.............

I've experienced 20 knots where all I can do is handle a reef and a 110, on another occasion, full main and a 155 going upwind with out issues. IE, 40F is different than 80f temps too. The colder air is denser, hence why I had to be reefed with 2 of us. The 80F temps where the air is way less dense, with a full race crew, it was a hoot!

So as Alex pointed out, one needs to change sail type, area etc, based on upwind vs down wind. One may also have to decide based on air temps as I have shown. Crew size and experience as many have shown also come into play. Waves and type as mentioned come into play.

I remember a few years back, a skipper for one of the V70s mentioned in an interview in Sailing World, they had "3" different sail configurations for winds in the 40-50 range, depending upon wave height, duration etc for going upwind. All three options had similar sail area's, but one was taller vs shorter in height in the boat to get thru the different wave heights and durations. Lighter winds even more configs depending upon upwind, reaching, running etc!

Can one get thru winds higher than SCW's yes, but as noted by many, one needs to practice if you will when these winds come out. Or try reefing in lower wind strengths so when you need to, you know what to do etc! I recall reading about the sidney-hobart fiasco race. One of the boats while still in sydney harbor with 10-15 knot winds, put up the storm trysail and jib, so everyone knew what to do, made sure it worked etc. The STRONG winds of that race were not even predicted such that they might have needed said sails. BUT, today we know what happened and was screwed up in the wind forecast. I've done the same with my storm jib to see how it needs to be setup etc......along with one day in mid 20's, shall we say, threw a race to a degree, trying it out with different main sail reef configs to see which was balanced best on the upwind leg. For the return, full main and 155, doing 8-9 knots! what a hoot both ways at the end of the day frankly!

So yes, one should be able to sail in 20-40 knots as easy if you will as 0-20, but one has to be prepared with the proper sail configs for YOUR boat in those conditions!

Marty


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## tspooner (Jun 18, 2011)

I usually hand on a 35 Pearson when racing and it likes big wind. We have never reefed during a race when the wind are lighter than 25 knots. I have slowly entered my wife into winds into 18 knot winds (single reefed) and she became comfortable with a 10-15 degree heel for a sustained period. On the same point I have had my daughter who watches my face for reaction and is content to a 35 degree heel when my expression starts to change (usually because of a slower GPS speed). I will one point reef when the wife is on board and the sustained wind exceeds 15 knots and would probably do the same if I am solo. I would not reef at all under 25 knots if i had a reliable crew and racing but would double reef over 20 knots if the wife or any newbies were on board. If I am solo sailing the mark is one reef over 15 knots and 2 reefs over 20 knots of wind speed. I fine tune the rest with my 150 roller genoa but not necessarily in that order.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

For myself right now the answer is - depends if the wind direction is blowing me into my slip. Docking in higher winds is still more nerve racking for me than sailing in them.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

I took a ride on an Endeavor 42 CC last summer, coming up the bay from Norfolk. 35kts from the aft quarter with a deeply reefed furling main and jib was a rolling ride that the autopilot managed well but human hands not so good. 

That's one of the influential factors in why I shifted from light cruising catamaran to medium/heavy displacement center cockpit.


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

Beaufort Sailing June 15 2013
Here was a good day no reef's needed we had 13 knots out on the south, light chop and a great time. 
I have noticed with this new boat the C&C30 Mk1 Likes the wind to be 13 - 18 knots without needing to change sail plan or reef. in fact she seams to do her best or be best in tune with the wind at 18 -24 knots. thats with the 115% and the working main. 
Take a look below at the video. again 13 knots with some gust everynow and then.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Heard it said "It aint the wind that kills you but rather the waves"

Having said that I'm more of Mark's frame of mind. Best analysis of weather is at best reliable for 3-4d. If you're going to go anyplace you need to have a boat, crew and experience to deal with what comes your way.
I'd rather face that in a 28' Bristol Channel Cutter than a 40' French cathouse. I'd rather face that in my current boat that anything afloat 'cause I know her and trust her.
Not only does boat matter but sail set up and presence of heavy air canvas. Similarly, being able to take a breather with drogue or having multiple watches of skilled crew makes all the difference.
My wife's FIRST offshore sail was this past spring. We saw 30-35+ but were running in regular seas with two experienced sailors ( broker/me). We did 206m/d first day and saw 11.2-11.4. She loved it and was never apprehensive. Had her in line squalls and T storms on the PSC prior year. Gusty but short seas and nothing sustained above ~25kts. Needed to beat through it for 10h. She hated it and wondered why I would ever want to cruise.
Been in full storms. No fun whatever you're on. Biggest fear it something key will break and then the cascade to catastrophe will occur.


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## CarbonSink62 (Sep 29, 2011)

For me in my Catalina 25, 15-18kts (maybe gusting to 22 or so) is as big as I like my wind to get. I love 12-15kts.

When it's above 20kts, I stay on the mooring.

I expect those numbers to be revised and I gain more experience with this boat and the big ocean thing.

Ken


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## Gregrosine (Feb 10, 2013)

I think it also depends upon what kind of water you are on. Wind makes waves. The waves on Lake Michigan are a lot different than the waves on the ocean.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I'm pretty comfortable with 20 and have been caught in some storms with winds to 42 kts, but it wasn't at all fun. Keep in mind, though, that my wide-beamed, heavy-assed Morgan 33 was built to take some nasty conditions. I'm not nearly as fast as some other boats, but that's OK, I'm not a racer - just a cruiser.

My favorite winds are usually this time of year, when the air temperature is a bit chilly, and I get some steady 12 to 16 kt breezes from the northwest. Makes for a wonderful trip down the Chesapeake. Unfortunately, my work schedule went absolutely nuts this fall, and throughout next year, so I'm not getting the time on the water I would normally enjoy. That OK, though. In a few months I should have enough saved up for those much needed repairs.

Cheers,

Gary


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

As others have said, the water is a factor--not just the wind. Normally, we would not want to venture into open water with winds in the 20+ kt range, but that is based on comfort. We have an inclinometer, which the admiral uses to determine if we are heeling too much. She has figured out that 15-20 degrees in our maximum useful angle of heel (close-hauled, of course). At that point, she is uncomfortable moving around our 35' boat and will remind me that our velocity made good is maxed out in that range, as our boat is not "tender".

Over the years, we've learned not to trust the forecasts, but to be prepared for winds up to 30kts without getting too stressed out. We wouldn't depart under those conditions, but we are better prepared after installing single-line reefing that is led to the cockpit. We also have an upgraded autopilot that we can trust to steer the boat if one of us gets injured (normally it's just the 2 of us seniors).


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

It all depends. I've been out in F8 rising 9 a few times, and F10 once. We weren't having a lot of fun.

For daysailing the controlling issue is usually get in and out of slips and picking up moorings. Depending on the slip, somewhere around F4 or F5 I start thinking about alternatives. F6 and I start thinking about med-mooring to a t-head or fuel dock until things settle down, or anchoring out somewhere sheltered. 

All that said if the goal is a day sail, or a hop on a cruise, forecasts in the middle of F5 or above mean we stay put. As others have so aptly stated why risk breaking something?


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## DrB (Mar 29, 2007)

*I have a complicate set of If, Then conditions*

For My Boat (33') and 11' beam


If Wind Speed Gusting > Boat Length, Then NO
If waves are > 0.5 * Beam, Then NO
If Admiral says no, Then NO.

The last statement supersedes the first two.

DrB


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

As a new sailor myself, learning what the boat can handle and what you are comfortable with seem to be the critical items. I was offshore on Monday with expected light winds (per NOAA and GRIB). A few hours in, we were in 24 knots and 9' seas. I had one reef in and all was well, although downwind was a bit of a beast. The sweet spot was when the boat was surfing. If you can build up your "wind repertoire," determine what will make you uncomfortable, and know how the boat will manage it all, this seems to be the best process for figuring it out, which is working well for me as I build confidence in my own capabilities.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

fallard said:


> As others have said, the water is a factor--not just the wind. Normally, we would not want to venture into open water with winds in the 20+ kt range, but that is based on comfort. We have an inclinometer, which the admiral uses to determine if we are heeling too much. She has figured out that 15-20 degrees in our maximum useful angle of heel (close-hauled, of course). At that point, she is uncomfortable moving around our 35' boat and will remind me that our velocity made good is maxed out in that range, as our boat is not "tender".
> 
> Over the years, we've learned not to trust the forecasts, but to be prepared for winds up to 30kts without getting too stressed out. We wouldn't depart under those conditions, but we are better prepared after installing single-line reefing that is led to the cockpit. We also have an upgraded autopilot that we can trust to steer the boat if one of us gets injured (normally it's just the 2 of us seniors).


That's a good point. In the Mississippi Sound, for instance, where I have sailed a lot, you can get 30 knot winds, but relatively small wave action, because of the protecting lee of the barrier islands.

That's part of the problem with hurricanes. We build for those conditions, and then when the surge rises over the barrier islands, we get waves onshore where the fetch is 100 miles.


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## GabriellaElder (Sep 28, 2013)

we would not want to project into start h2o with gusts of wind in the 20+ variety, but that is depending on convenience. We have an inclinometer, which the admiral uses to figure out if we are heeling too much.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

In 20 knots you're _working _and you're _reefing _and the odds are, unless you have heavy wx sails, you're also distorting your $ail$ from the wind load. And you'll need foulies for the spray if nothing else.

Which also can ruin the hor d'oeuvres and cocktails. 

So it comes down to how comfortable you are in those conditions, and whether you wanted to sail or wrestle.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

I figure it this way, from thinking it through, not from first hand experience... 

When tacking into the wind, the sails are employed to overcome the effect of wind on freeboard. (Freeboard - the height of your rail over the water. Different from Freebird, which is the answer to "What song is it you want to hear?)

As the wind increases, your freeboard stays the same, but your sails are getting smaller as you reef and use your smaller jibs. At a certain point, the sails aren't big enough to overcome the (increased) force of the wind pushing your hull straight down wind.

That's if you're on a protected bay. The effects of waves will decrease your sail's effiency as you rock and pitch, making it worse. 

Would be a good exercise to practice in protected water first, while knowing that waves will make it very different.

Regards,
Brad


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Local forecast.......

PUGET SOUND AND HOOD CANAL-
230 PM PDT SUN SEP 29 2013

...STORM WARNING IN EFFECT THROUGH LATE TONIGHT...

.TONIGHT...S WIND RISING TO 40 TO 50 KT THIS EVENING AND SHIFTING TO
SW. WIND WAVES BUILDING TO 5 TO 8 FT. RAIN TURING TO SHOWERS AFTER
MIDNIGHT.
.MON...S WIND 15 TO 25 KT. WIND WAVES 2 TO 4 FT. SCATTERED SHOWERS
AND SLIGHT CHANCE OF TSTMS.
.MON NIGHT...S WIND 15 TO 25 KT. WIND WAVES 2 TO 4 FT. CHANCE OF
SHOWERS.
.TUE...S WIND 10 TO 20 KT. WIND WAVES 1 TO 3 FT.
.TUE NIGHT THROUGH WED NIGHT...S WIND 5 TO 15 KT. WIND WAVES 1 OR 2
FT.
.THU...NE WIND 10 KT. WIND WAVES 1 FT.
.FRI...S WIND 10 KT. WIND WAVES 1 FT.


Was toying with going sailing for a bit, any one want to join me?!?!?! Should be worth a BFS point or two or three! Altho I have not checked with smackers as of yet........we might get 5-10 points if he can join us..........

Marty


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Multiple variables apply
Boat
Crew
Site ( depth,lee, obstacles,traffic)
Fetch,period
Duration of wind
Point of sail
Fatigue
Ambient temperature


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## DiasDePlaya (Jun 12, 2002)

Years ago with a capable crew we sailed 24 hrs under 45-50 knts downwind. With 2 reef and genoa 4. We broke nothing and competed who got the faster surf at the helm! Sailing upwind I think that 35 knts is enough.

The boat was an Italian Polaris 33, an IOR design.


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## harmonic (Sep 10, 2013)

I leave my boat in the marina at about 20 knots can handle 30 easily enough just choose not too,when its windy here I grab my windsurfer can handle up to 35 knots on that,thats real fun


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

The wind is the same but the conditions can be vastly different: Out of the Atlantic coast of Portugal and Spain going upwind with 20k wind and 4/5 meters waves can be disagreeable but not a big deal, even with a mass production cruiser. Try to do that on the med against 3 meter waves and you will need a boat with a very good upwind performance and lot's of power, for a very wet and utterly uncomfortable ride, probably not doing more than 5K. You will not be able to do any decent speed with an Oceanis or a Bavaria unless it is a very big one.

Go downwind on the same conditions and even on an Oceanis or Bavaria, providing you fly the right amount of sail, and even on the Med, it will be a fun ride. In fact yesterday I come from Ponza to Rome with winds mostly on the 20/30K range: It was surfing all the time. The waves were so close that you keep on surfing from wave to wave.


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## Stefman (Dec 7, 2013)

I sail on a large mountain lake anything under 35 is fun singlehanded but ive had 4 or 5 storm fronts come in on me that were in the mid 40's. With good crew its fun even in a dinghy. My son and mother were onboard once in close to 40 conditions so i close reached for seaway when i saw it coming then hove too for 10 mins or so till it passed. If i was on the ocean with more seaway i think i would feel safe below 50 but i know nothing of large sea state and tides so i cant be sure of that.


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## drsutton (Aug 6, 2013)

When fun turns to hard work I draw the line. How experienced is my crew? What is the visibility? Is it raining? Is it snowing? How managabe are the sails? I guess the short answer is it all depends.


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

I don't recall ever not going out because it was too windy. Why do you think stuff will break when it is windy? What are you breaking?


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

A dozen or so years ago we got caught outside Fishers Island, NY, beating into sustained winds of 45+ kts. A 50' wooden boat in our regatta sprung a plank and was able to made it near shore to sink in 25' of water. We were getting our first set of lifelines in the water on the roll. Nothing broke on the boat, per se, but our brand new North main went back for a warranty repair. The lower, full length batten exited the leech and dinged our backstay-mounted radome. The telltales were shredded, but that was minor.

All of this happened without the winds having been sustained long enough to create huge waves. In other words, not enough green water over the deck to be worrisome.


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## capt vimes (Dec 2, 2013)

PCP said:


> The wind is the same but the conditions can be vastly different: Out of the Atlantic coast of Portugal and Spain going upwind with 20k wind and 4/5 meters waves can be disagreeable but not a big deal, even with a mass production cruiser. Try to do that on the med against 3 meter waves and you will need a boat with a very good upwind performance and lot's of power, for a very wet and utterly uncomfortable ride, probably not doing more than 5K. You will not be able to do any decent speed with an Oceanis or a Bavaria unless it is a very big one.
> 
> Go downwind on the same conditions and even on an Oceanis or Bavaria, providing you fly the right amount of sail, and even on the Med, it will be a fun ride. In fact yesterday I come from Ponza to Rome with winds mostly on the 20/30K range: It was surfing all the time. The waves were so close that you keep on surfing from wave to wave.


this.
i really do not like those short and choppy waves in the med...


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## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

I spent most of Sunday in sustained winds of 30kts with gusts to low 40s. The wind indicator recorded a max gust on 52. I was on a heavily reefed cat beating into it. The seas weren't bad on the lee side of the island, only 5'-8'. The charter guests I was with had never been in conditions like that and were pretty tense in the beginning but after an hour they ran out of adrenaline and realized the boat was handling everything fine and we weren't committing suicide. I was more tense getting the boat out of the slip without touching anything than I was about being out sailing in those conditions. Truly an interesting way to break in a brand new charter boat!


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

Wind strength is only one factor. Fetch is the one that dictates the sea state. We once had a sail from Cook Town where the predicted wind went from wsw 25 to 30 and infact came in at 40 to 45 from wnw. As we were heading south inside the great barrier reef we just put the stay sail up and triple reefed the main and hugged the coast. 
Best big wind sail I have had and the wife cookef lunch and made lots of coffee. Cook town to port Douglas in less than 14 hours.


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## duchess of montrose (Nov 26, 2011)

Unlike some of the people on this board, i have never been bluewater sailing but having experienced the great lakes, I can say i actually enjoy 25 knot winds especially downwind, even on my older hull form surfing waves is fun but generally when it gets around 35 which I have only experienced in late november it becomes a little less fun, because it's cold, spray is hitting your face and things happen very quickly so you have to be constantly alert. Also i have noticed that if you go out intending to motor somewhere and you get caught up in that its not particularly fun to set the sails while the boat is violently yawing, sailing in heavy going to me is much more enjoyable than motoring.


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## jerryw (Nov 26, 2009)

My boat is a Montgomery M-23 Cutter. It's called the "Offshore Cutter" but realistically, about <5,000lbs, it just a big day sailor, not really designed for off-shore work. 

With the cutter rig, however, I can douse the hanked-on fore-sail and use the little stay-sail and double reefed main in winds 28 - 30 knots true. I'm not gonna say it's fun - a few days later I was becalmed in the warm sun, and it felt especially fine. Read a book in the cockpit, cooked some noodles.....all the things you can't do between 25 - 30 knots.

Around 20 knots, with stay sail and single-reefed main, she sails nicely into the wind with the tiller lashed.

Above 30 knots is too much. I've tried 35 with a buddy. We got beat up and turned tail. I think we've both gotten more experience but with that sort of wind, and my boat, it's just too much. I need another 5000lbs.

Jerry
Montgomery M-23 Cutter
out of Port Kinsale, VA
Lower Potomac River


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Other thing not yet mentioned is how you feel. Have done transits dealing with 25-35 and by the third day of beating into that crap it just gets old.trying to get dressed without falling off the bunk.not being able to put anything down without wedging it in some where.trying to clean up or go potty. If you're feeling good and it's warm with the sun shining then ok. But if it's cold,damp and dark it just gets old fast. Also if you have to be at such and a place by such and such a time or are otherwise stressed your tolerance is decreased. Other than a 100 year storm with bad forecasting you and your boat should never have too much wind. But when your stressed and grumpy even moderate conditions can be more than you want to deal with


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

Only you can decide what conditions in which you prefer to sail. However, everyone here should be able to sail their boats in a wide range of winds without breaking anything. You really never know when it you might get caught in it. They key really is to shorten sail early and keep a tidy ship. Nothing is more distracting than stuff just crashing around down below.



outbound said:


> Other thing not yet mentioned is how you feel. Have done transits dealing with 25-35 and by the third day of beating into that crap it just gets old.trying to get dressed without falling off the bunk.not being able to put anything down without wedging it in some where.trying to clean up or go potty. If you're feeling good and it's warm with the sun shining then ok. But if it's cold,damp and dark it just gets old fast. Also if you have to be at such and a place by such and such a time or are otherwise stressed your tolerance is decreased. Other than a 100 year storm with bad forecasting you and your boat should never have too much wind. But when your stressed and grumpy even moderate conditions can be more than you want to deal with


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Jzk couldn't agree more.everything in its place and a place for everything. And the bfs make good stories for smackers.just saying sometimes big wind brings big smiles other times not so much.


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