# Regretting my Honda 2.3 purchase



## CaribDream (Jan 29, 2013)

I was very worried about a centrifugal clutch on an outboard, but went with the Honda 2.3 for its light weight in comparison to others.

My problem is that on startup, when you put the throttle to the start position, when she fires its enough to engage the prop therefore lurching the boat forward. Less throttle, she won't start. Also, once running, when you play the throttle and choke until the engine is warm and idles comfortably, the prop tends to engage/disengage. These are times when I just would prefer to have a gear select so that I could start and play the throttle without the danger of the boat surging ahead unpredictably. Also, when turning the motor around for reverse, swapping the tiller to the other side changes the throttle unintentionally as well causing undesired thrust sometimes.

I'm very used to centrifugal clutches having grown up on snowmobiles - but this is much worse. I'm really debating on getting rid of it after only a few months of use. 

I have had the engine in at a dealer once and all adjustments were checked so that eliminates throttle settings etc. Am I somehow doing something stupid? When it surges, its only momentarily before I dial back the throttle, but any less throttle and it just won't start. Its a real pain in the rear and I'm really embarrassed when people see me start my engine and it surges forward a foot. I've been around outboards most of my life. Not like this is my first rodeo, but with this Honda it sure feels and looks like it!


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

seeing as that was the outboard I was considering before getting my troller, I sure am glad I made the choice I did. Sounds like you have had a ton of issues with this thing. 
Any thought of selling it and switching to something else? Sometimes taking the loss is worth it just for the peace of mind.


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

I had one for years that had NO clutch. It was just in gear always. Actually sounds easier than what you got. It was real fun when the Honda dealer "fixed" it and the stop switch would not work 
I recently scored a 3.5 HP 2 stroke Nissan with F-N for $100 for my brother. Craigslist is your friend


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## CaribDream (Jan 29, 2013)

avenger79:1074248 said:


> seeing as that was the outboard I was considering before getting my troller, I sure am glad I made the choice I did. Sounds like you have had a ton of issues with this thing.
> Any thought of selling it and switching to something else? Sometimes taking the loss is worth it just for the peace of mind.


Well, the gas problem I'll give them a pass on. They did warranty it at the recommendation of the dealer. I believe the debris (looked like a tiny tiny piece of cardboard fiber) came from the factory, but technically it could be argued that it is *possible * it came from me I suppose. As I said, this isn't my first rodeo - I'm very careful about gas filling etc. And, they did fix it - I'll give them that.

But this centrifugal clutch seems like a bad design on an outboard. I would think it would be fine on a fuel injected motor. But on a carb'd motor where starting and warm up are not computer controlled and vary by conditions... I feel like a total amateur when dealing with it. It feels unsafe - ie. For that split second I'm not 100% in control and that's not acceptable to me.

I am a complete amateur sailor for sure - but motors/motoring is not new to me and I consider myself pretty good in this category. I am definitely considering dumping it for something with a traditional gear shift. Call me old fashioned I guess.

The only reason I still have it is because no matter how much one knows, there is always more to learn - so I'm wondering if this truly is a bad design or maybe I can learn what is wrong with me.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

The Honda clutch was the main reason I bought a Suzuki 2.5 instead.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

The motor must be intended to start at low enough RPMs so that the clutch does not engage. Almost the whole point of having a centrifugal clutch is to be able to start the thing without taking off. What does the owner's manual say? Does the throttle indicate a "start" position?


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## CaribDream (Jan 29, 2013)

caberg:1074293 said:


> The motor must be intended to start at low enough RPMs so that the clutch does not engage. Almost the whole point of having a centrifugal clutch is to be able to start the thing without taking off. What does the owner's manual say? Does the throttle indicate a "start" position?


Correct. It has a throttle "start" position. The prop engages with the throttle well below this setting, but the engine will not start with any less. That's exactly my conundrum.


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

I wonder if when they cleaned out the carb etc maybe they altered the setting some so it won't start as it should? Maybe the engagment of the prop wound up getting set too low? Has to be a setting issue I would think. Centrifugal clutch motors are not "new", it's been done for years.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I have the version that is always in gear (no clutch) and it works well for me. It seems odd that the clutch would make it more confusing instead of less, but maybe it does. Is there a way to lock the clutch out so that you only have forward gear?


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## CaribDream (Jan 29, 2013)

Alex W:1074310 said:


> I have the version that is always in gear (no clutch) and it works well for me. It seems odd that the clutch would make it more confusing instead of less, but maybe it does. Is there a way to lock the clutch out so that you only have forward gear?


A centrifugal clutch is always in gear. It only has a forward gear. The clutch disengages thus allowing the motor to turn the prop after it surpasses a certain rpm (just like a snowmobile). At idle, the prop does not turn. The problem is that the required start position for the throttle gives enough rpm for the clutch to disengage causing a momentary thrust on startup. Any less throttle, and the engine does not start. O


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## CaribDream (Jan 29, 2013)

Alex W:1074310 said:


> I have the version that is always in gear (no clutch) and it works well for me. It seems odd that the clutch would make it more confusing instead of less, but maybe it does. Is there a way to lock the clutch out so that you only have forward gear?


If you have no clutch, and the motor is always in gear - the prop would always turn unless the motor was off. I believe you also have the centrifugal clutch just like mine.


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## CaribDream (Jan 29, 2013)

Just googled more and found quite a few people complaining of the same thing - start throttle higher than clutch disengagement causing a surge forward on startup. I guess I'm not the only one and it seems to be the nature of the beast.

Also, I stand corrected I think. Looks like there was a model without the clutch. Prop does turn all the time but extremely slowly at idle. Ugh. Just seems like both options are an all together bad idea/design. But then again, that's just my opinion.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Yes, the prop on mine always turns. You can pull the start cord slowly and watch the prop turn. There is no neutral or reverse.

I think it's a great little engine. It always starts right up, is easy to maintain, was cheap to buy (used) and has plenty of power for my rigid dink.


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

No - We had the old Honda with no gear shift or clutch of ANY kind. Start it and it goes!
Actually sounds better than what you have.



CaribDream said:


> If you have no clutch, and the motor is always in gear - the prop would always turn unless the motor was off. I believe you also have the centrifugal clutch just like mine.


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## CaribDream (Jan 29, 2013)

Coquina:1074363 said:


> No - We had the old Honda with no gear shift or clutch of ANY kind. Start it and it goes!
> Actually sounds better than what you have.
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, I stand corrected. I was actually totally surprised that there was such a thing. Agreed, sounds better than mine but I still don't like the idea of the prop always turning either.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

I have been considering getting either the Honda 2.3 or the Suzuki 2.5. they weight the same. I was all for the honda because it does not need to be flushed. starting to change my mind. flushing seem to be a small price to pay for ease of operation and a quieter engine. I am thinking what happens when the engine gets a little older and requires a few more pulls and higher throttle setting to get it started.


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## CaribDream (Jan 29, 2013)

overbored:1074385 said:


> I have been considering getting either the Honda 2.3 or the Suzuki 2.5. they weight the same. I was all for the honda because it does not need to be flushed. starting to change my mind. flushing seem to be a small price to pay for ease of operation and a quieter engine. I am thinking what happens when the engine gets a little older and requires a few more pulls and higher throttle setting to get it started.


I couldn't agree with you more. Mine is only a few months old. Can't imagine what it might be like after a few years.

Hmmm. Maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot here. I want to get rid of this thing. Maybe I should be raving about what an innovative design it is LOL.


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## cutterdad (Apr 10, 2013)

I have the same Honda and it can be a little disconcerting in some situations. When possible I stay side-tied to the dock until after I have started the little bugger and have it calmed down. This only takes a second and does not seem to put too much stress on the docklines. When that's not possible or convenient I point my dink in the right direction, make sure it's clear and start and GO! 
Cutterdad
S/V Imagine


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## CaribDream (Jan 29, 2013)

cutterdad:1074417 said:


> I have the same Honda and it can be a little disconcerting in some situations. When possible I stay side-tied to the dock until after I have started the little bugger and have it calmed down. This only takes a second and does not seem to put too much stress on the docklines. When that's not possible or convenient I point my dink in the right direction, make sure it's clear and start and GO!
> Cutterdad
> S/V Imagine


LOL - your strategy is identical to mine. I hate it. It makes me look like I have no idea what the heck I'm doing, and as careful as I am to manage this ridiculous design/operation, I still feel it's dangerous. I should have trusted my suspect feelings on this and went with a different engine.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Sounds like your motor is defective. If the dealer can't make it start with the shaft disengaged, he/she should take it back...period. It doesn't work. Centrifugal clutches have been around forever, no rocket science here, something's defective or poorly engineered, which is not like Honda.

I've had little outboards that were direct drive. They are useable if you're quick but you paid for one with a clutch which IS a lot safer to deal with.


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## CaribDream (Jan 29, 2013)

smurphny:1074428 said:


> Sounds like your motor is defective. If the dealer can't make it start with the shaft disengaged, he/she should take it back...period. It doesn't work. Centrifugal clutches have been around forever, no rocket science here, something's defective or poorly engineered, which is not like Honda.


I would tend to agree with you - but already here on this thread we have someone else reporting the same behavior, and now I have found others elsewhere reporting the same. Seems to be nature of the beast. Honda has been a disappointment in design, execution, and quality for me. I think my decision is made. Either I deal with it like everyone else, or send it packing and go for a better engine from another brand.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Did you ask for a refund? If this is a known issue, it makes it even more evident that a refund is in order. Most states have laws in effect that say you get your money back if something proves to be defective. Dealing with a revved up spinning prop is no fun and really a safety issue. Paying full price for something that doesn't work is reason to raise HH.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Mines' over 10 years old, starts every time, but surges just as you describe. Noisy beast, but light and no flushing, best to run the carburetor dry if it's not to be run for awhile. I bought it because it was the only engine under 5 hp. available for sale in California at that time. The Suzuki 2.5 was available shortly after that time as more small 4 strokes were made. A friend had the Suzuki and I was very impressed with it, cheaper and quieter, and Forward, Reverse and Neutral, if I remember right. I think I'd prefer it.
It's not really defective, just an air cooled engine with centrifugal clutch, no gearbox, minimal.


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## CaribDream (Jan 29, 2013)

capttb:1074454 said:


> Mines' over 10 years old, starts every time, but surges just as you describe.
> ....
> It's not really defective, just an air cooled engine with centrifugal clutch, no gearbox, minimal.


I agree. I think it's just the way it is. If I would have known before I never would have bought it. No big deal I suppose. When a good deal comes around I'll snatch it up and get rid of the Honda.


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## Coquina (Dec 27, 2012)

Search Craigslist. You can find an old Johnson/Evinrude/Mercury/Etc. two-stroke in the 2-3 HP range with a gear shift that you can pick up with 2 fingers and will run forever for two or three hundred dollars. Bonus - vastly easier to repair if it goes underwater. Not sure about flushing, but my 6 HP Johnson I got new in 2000 was sold to a buddy who put it on a Boston Whaler and it still runs great. It gets a fresh water flush every single winter, whether it needs one or not.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

made my decision Suzuki 2.5 just bought from cumberland sports. $714.97 on two day sale, free shipping, no tax. new outboards.com at this price it is not worth the time to look for a used one.
Honda dealer wanted $1055 plus tax and they don't have any 2.3 in stock only 2.0


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

I had one, without the clutch, for many years. Never thought much about starting it, just point it where you want to go, then pull the cord. The engine was perfect and totally bullet proof, as have every other Honda product I have owned. 

If you have a low speed mixture adjustment suggest you richen it up until it stumbles then back just enough to end the stumble. In other words, as rich as you can make it with out it dying. That may enable you to start it at a slower speed?

Paul T


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## KIVALO (Nov 2, 2011)

Those of you with this issue, have you tried to service the clutch? If its a CVT, which is the style in a snowmobile, they are adjustable if you know what your doing. You can increase or decrease the engagement RPM's. I'm not familiar with the specific clutch but it there must be a way to adjust it.

Brad


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

CaribDream said:


> I couldn't agree with you more. Mine is only a few months old. Can't imagine what it might be like after a few years.
> 
> Hmmm. Maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot here. I want to get rid of this thing. Maybe I should be raving about what an innovative design it is LOL.


I've had the BF2 with the centrifugal clutch for about 8 years. I wouldn't worry too much about longevity, I've had no issues in that regard, she's still running just fine... I take the usual precautions, always try to avoid using ethanol gas, always use Stabil, and always drain the carb whenever it's gonna sit for awhile, etc...

If you can't get used to the starting issue, perhaps you should swap it out for a Suzuki, or similar. But I've found that once one gets used to it, I actually prefer the centrifugal clutch to a manual shift. Especially when you're alone in an inflatable - if you need to place yourself far enough aft to reach the shift lever, that can sometimes lift the bow considerably, making close-quarters maneuvering more difficult, and the boat more susceptible to being affected by a strong breeze. Rather, with the use of a tiller extension (mine's just a simple length of PVC conduit clamped onto the twist throttle grip) you can be sitting on the tubes or seat well forward, keeping the trim of the boat proper, and remain in a good position to fend off, or handle your painter... Again, once you become accustomed to it, I think this is a better all around setup for handling a small inflatable, with the only exception being you have no reverse gear. I never feel the need for reverse with an inflatable, but can see where this engine could be a liability in a larger rigid tender...

No question, the Honda can be a bit finicky, as any of these small motors can be... But my only real gripe about the BF2 is the use of a couple of bolts and fittings that show rust easily, i've swapped out a couple with stainless, and coated a couple with POR-15. Other than that, and the loud exhaust note, I'm pretty happy with this engine, and would suggest you might give yourself a bit more time getting used to it. As others have mentioned, the use of a taut stern line, or starting with the bow planted against a dock, can easily alleviate the surging issue - which I've generally found can be reduced quickly, as even when cold-starting, the RPMs can be reduced upon starting virtually immediately...

If you do keep the Honda, I'd recommend picking up the shop manual, it will give you a far better understanding of how to adjust the idle speed, etc... You can find one in a DVD format on eBay for under $15, if memory serves, a very worthwhile investment...


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## asdf38 (Jul 7, 2010)

If you don't like it you don't like it, and I'm not trying to defend a mechanism which Honda may not have designed well..but you might just want to take some time and change your expectations a bit (clutch/gears on a 2hp is sort of a new thing).

Or change the situation you're in when you're starting it. I wonder why you're concerned about moving?

It seems to me, you're generally either trying to go somewhere, or you're tied up. If you're trying to go somewhere it's fine (you even make some headway just from pulling the string) and if you're tied up, well it's just a 2hp engine! At half throttle it's not going to break the dock, or the line and it will probably barely move your real boat.

The centrifugal clutch, even if not entirely working (and it must be adjustable right?) only improves the situation.

Personally, in an engine this size I'm biased towards simplicity and weight and I was bummed to look at the market and see all the gears and clutches out there in the 4hp and less. I found a 1976 johnson seahorse for $200 that I'm happy with.


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## OPossumTX (Jul 12, 2011)

We used to adjust the engagement speed of the clutches used on go carts and stuff by either changing to a weaker spring that pulls the shoes in to lower the engagement speed or by using a heavier spring or drilling holes in the shoes to raise the engagement speed. I have a little Ultralite 40 Seagull that is straight drive. If the engine is turning, the prop is turning, unless of course the stupid drive spring has been over stressed and broken or bent.


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