# What type of small sailboat - recommendations



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

A friend wants to buy a small sailboat for her and her husband to sail on a midwest lake. They are definitely beginners. Can anyone recommend a small fiberglass boat for two that is quick but not too much for beginners?

Preferably one that could later be raced in local races?


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

WELL

That usally works out best if you just wonder down and see whats being used at the local sailing places and at least here they have demo days 

My wife and i started on and 11' sailing dink BUT i dont think you would get her on one today


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## Delirious (Dec 16, 2001)

Flying Scot (19 ft)

Precision 15

Capri 14.2

In that order. The Flying Scot has a huge following and many local fleets and would be a good family fun daysailor that can be raced.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

I would add the Thistle to the above list.


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## TackBoston (Oct 11, 2008)

Here are a couple recommendations:

Rhodes 19 -- very simply boat, classic design, often used to teach sailing, can probably find one used pretty cheap and new they are simply beautiful. Not great performance boat, but likely will be others on the lake

Colgate 26 -- designed to teach sailing and to race, this boat is easy to sail but has all of the bells and whistles that you can use as your skills progress. A rocketship racer too. Very stable with huge cockpit and cuddy cabin. Scores well under PHRF.

Sonar -- another popular and classic boat, this is a great learning boat, simple, and likely to be others on the lake. You can find these used as well.


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## Perithead (Nov 16, 2007)

Do they want a boat for daysailing or something that they can spend a night or two in?

If they want to stay ont he boat a Catalina 22 is very popular and you can get a nice used one at a decent price.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Boat is for daysailing*



Perithead said:


> Do they want a boat for daysailing or something that they can spend a night or two in?
> 
> If they want to stay ont he boat a Catalina 22 is very popular and you can get a nice used one at a decent price.


They want one easy to put in and out of the water and trailerable for daysailing......

Thanks,
Ron


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## Delirious (Dec 16, 2001)

T34C said:


> I would add the Thistle to the above list.


I owned Thistle #1858 and I would not recommend it as a beginner's sailboat for two people.

Heck of a boat, and IMHO the cream-of-the-crop of racing dinghys, but it is like handng the keys to the Ferrari to a first time driver.

I've seen two folks hop off a Thistle coming in fast to a beach and the boom swung back and hit the helms(wo)man in the forehead hard enough to lift her out of the boat from seated. It was the loudest "PING" I've ever heard on a sailboat. Eventually THE ADMIRAL did forgive me & the other crewman, and the lump went away in a week. You'll note it's low to the gunnel.










Things happen fast on a Thistle and you only get one chance to correct them. It's also a cast iron b##ch to set that loose-footed mast every time with the tight solid wire rigging. The Scot is worlds easier whth the hinged base.


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## Lostmt (Jun 4, 2006)

I would recommend a Starwind 19 or 22. We own a 22. She is trailerable and has a nice cabin for over nights. Starwind Spindrift Marina • Index page

We are new to sailing and wanted a sailboat that we could do coastal cruising and take up to Iowa to visit our son and sail on lakes up there.


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## WouldaShoulda (Oct 7, 2008)

I'd add the old O'Day Daysailer to the list.

Or it's similar, wetter contemporary the Catalina 16.5.

Speaking of wet, I like the Hobie Wave and Getaway too!!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The Compacs are pretty good in that size range, as are the Montgomeries.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Delirious said:


> I owned Thistle #1858 and I would not recommend it as a beginner's sailboat for two people.
> 
> Heck of a boat, and IMHO the cream-of-the-crop of racing dinghys, but it is like handng the keys to the Ferrari to a first time driver.
> 
> ...


Good call. I'm just bias because I want one to play with.


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## Delirious (Dec 16, 2001)

There are days I miss ours a bunch. It was a 1964 I saved from a rotted mess. That picture was taken from a Flying Scot as we walked past on a very light air day. That boat moved no matter what - especially with only two aboard. If you could get it moving at all it seemed to generate it's own wind even on flat, dead air days. You're looking at 200 ft^2 of sail on a 500lb hull!

'Course it would take two days for my back to unkink after a day of sailing. Helmsman has nice benches and the "crew" goes from calves on the rail & toes under the strap to getting painfully familiar with the swivel-block on the centerboard trunk.

I'm proud to say we never dumped her. Sailed her under once when we started to ship water over the gunnel but the bilge scuppers drained her and we kept going.

So - back to the original couple. Do they want an open boat, a cuddy or a weekender sytle sleeping cruiser?


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## MikeAR (Aug 28, 2008)

Not to highjack the thread, but our situation is similar. We are beginners. too.
There are a bunch of lakes in our state, all within reasonable distance. As much as we'd love a 25 to 30-foot boat, we have to be financially realistic.
As I see it, our parameters include:
* A trailer sailor (that could be towed by a Ford Ranger, 2wd, 3.0 ltr auto trans). 18-22 feet long. Small outboard.
* Daysailing (or evenings) with the capability of weekends aboard capable of allowing us to spend a night aboard with a pair of small dogs. A cabin kitchen, while nice, isn't paramount.

From what I've read, such boats as the Catalina 22, Sanibel 18, Westwight Potter 19, and Precision 18 or 21 would fit the bill. I think the Catalina is the heaviest that I would want to haul behind the Ranger.
I sure there's other models out there (those listed as ones I've read about most) and I'd love to hear people's thoughts. 

Thanks in advance!


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

To the OP,
Flying scott. Great little boat.


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## Delirious (Dec 16, 2001)

MikeAR said:


> Not to highjack the thread, but our situation is similar. We are beginners. too.
> There are a bunch of lakes in our state, all within reasonable distance. As much as we'd love a 25 to 30-foot boat, we have to be financially realistic.
> As I see it, our parameters include:
> * A trailer sailor (that could be towed by a Ford Ranger, 2wd, 3.0 ltr auto trans). 18-22 feet long. Small outboard.
> ...


Friends of ours had a Precision 21 and it was a very nice sailing boat. The best thing about the Catalina 22 is that they are EVERYWHERE and can be had for little cash. They don't sail bad and are good first boats. One of those little boats you hear folks doing incredible passages in (but then lots of folks parachute off buildings or shoot heroin, too).

IMHO Potters are light and undercanvased. By light I mean you can push the hull by hand and get it to oil-can. They seem to hold up, though.

For a really unique boat see if you can find anything on a Bay Hen 21. It's light, has a goodly amount of room and is a super easy rig to sail (a gaff catboat).


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Absolutely look as S-2s, they are the class act of trailer sailers.

See S2 Sailing Association and S2 6.7, 6.9 & 22 Class Association Boats Page

Most were made with keel/daggerboards which make them very trailerable. Nice designs, well build and fast, they are competitive small racer/cruisers still today. I would think any lake in the Midwest with a fleet of racing boats would have some S-2s to look at. Note the small boat universe has a lot of crappy boats, an S-2 will cost more money than most boats its size, but they are well worth a premium. (For a number of summers I raced a 6.9 on Lake Minny... and loved the boat)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I don't think they are looking for a cabin boat/cruiser. Just a small sailboat built for 2 with possibility of a few more on special occasions. 
Flying Scot sounds good, is there a lighter version? 
Thanks,
Ron


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

FScot's a good boat -- 850 lbs isn't that heavy, and it moves okay in a good wind. More stable and forgiving than some boats in that class. Slightly more racy, but still manageable, is the Lightning. It's also sloop-rigged, if that's what they are interested in, 750 lbs, can be sailed by one to five people. Lots of them around at a wide range of prices. The hard chines make it stable for beginners when sailed cautiously; hook your feet under the hiking straps, power up, and it's one wild ride. Among the most enduring designs out there.

I sail a Buccaneer18, which is also common, also cheep, also simple to rig and quite fast. But it is a BEAST of a boat and I cannot recommend it for new sailors unless they are fully willing to swim a little. If they are, and if they can handle the learning curve, it's a stitch at 500 lbs. Best with two to three people. Chop three feet off the transom, reduce sail area, and you have the Mutineer, altogether better-mannered and available for beer money. Not so much fun as the Bucc, tho!

Small catboats are great to learn on, having only one sail. They can often serve as rowboats, too. Other boats to look for: Snipes, Capris, small Hunters, Americans. Most important thing is for your friends to get an inexpensive boat in sail-ready condition, nevermind aesthetics or pedigree. Get out on the thing, flounder helplessly, learn how to make it go. Then learn how to make it go better. After one summer of that, they'll know if sailing is their bag & what they want in a boat. They can sell their first one for the buying price and the story begins.


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## poltergeist (Oct 26, 2006)

*Plenty of good suggestions*

I'm partial to the Flying Scot (obviously), which is a great, stable platform to learn on, but plenty of fun to tune and master, too. But the Daysailer, Rhodes 19, the Precisions and the Lightning are also great choices for trailerable, easy to launch and sail boats for a couple and the occasional guest or two.

In answer to the original poster, a "lighter Scot" is arguably the Thistle ... same designer, but different design intention. The Scot is a daysailer that can be raced. The Thistle is a racer that can be daysailed ... by someone who knows what he's doing. They're a blast, but not what I would call comfortable, and they are a handful in a breeze.

Kurt


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## TheFrog (Oct 25, 2007)

I recently completed a similar search. There are a large number of boats in that size range that are nice day sailers. As you are picking up, it all depends on how willing the captain and crew are to get wet. Personally I was leaning towards the Buccaneer but after taking a lot of advice both on this board and off, I settled on a Scot. Reasons include the fact that it is stable but still fairly nimble, easy to trailer, fits in the garage, and it is a sit-in rather than sit-on design.

A couple of boats that haven't made this list yet but may be of interest. Unfortunately neither are really raced one design, but both can be raced in mixed fleets. The Boston Whaler Harpoon 5.2 and the Vanguard Nomad.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

bobmcgov said:


> I sail a Buccaneer18, which is also common, also cheep, also simple to rig and quite fast. But it is a BEAST of a boat and I cannot recommend it for new sailors unless they are fully willing to swim a little. If they are, and if they can handle the learning curve, it's a stitch at 500 lbs. Best with two to three people. Chop three feet off the transom, reduce sail area, and you have the Mutineer, altogether better-mannered and available for beer money. Not so much fun as the Bucc, tho!


Take another 1.5 ft. off the the Mutineer and you get the Pirateer with was my first sailboat. They are a blast to sail, easy to handle, but only good for 2 people and stability is about what you'd expect for a 13.5 ft. boat.


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## WouldaShoulda (Oct 7, 2008)

rfarson said:


> I don't think they are looking for a cabin boat/cruiser. Just a small sailboat built for 2 with possibility of a few more on special occasions.
> Flying Scot sounds good, is there a lighter version?
> Thanks,
> Ron


The answer is no. There is no lighter version of the Scot they are built to the same specs for single class racing purposes.

They are very stable for a centerboard -20ft daysailer.

They are difficult to fit for a motor however so if you go Scot plan on relying on sail or oar power only.

A Rhodes Mariner is a sweet alternative and more easily powered. (If necessary)


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## mkeChris (Oct 12, 2008)

Depends on what's more important, quick or comfortable. If quick is what you're looking for, you can look at a J/22 or J/24. They have some cabin space and are fun to sail. They are not "beginner boats" per se, but you don't have to use all the controls available. A Merit 25 is a similar class boat that is a bit more comfortable, but also more expensive. These are ideas for quick boats rather than simple straightforward ones. 
If comfort and simplicity is what they're after, the Pearson Ensigns are fantastic, sturdy and simple boats.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I might be inclined towards recommending the ComPac if only for the mast tabernacle alone! What is likely to most discourage the new trailer-sailor is the time and effort involved in rigging the mast and launching. Com-Pac's boats are not particularly fast but offer ease of use and a good amount of room for their size. While I and others might be biased towards such as a Cal or San Juan 21 for many reasons, our willingness to deal with tight spaces below decks might not be shared by others.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Small trailer-sailor*

I might also recommend the San Juan 21 for a small, easily managed trailer-sailer. They only have a 1400# displacement & can handle a spinnaker when you progress upwards in your seamanship. Clark Boat Co. made over 2700 of them; so they are many available. When I sailed one racing, they were pretty fast in comparison to others on the water.

They aren't equal to a J/22 or Melges 24 but could handle competition from some Catalina 22, Hunter 23, Precision 23, Mirage 5.5, and O'Day 22.

SJ 21 have the standard 4 berths and their boats were well built. Just find one that was taken care of and not abused.

S/V Doodles
C&C 27


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## Fonkamex (Nov 1, 2008)

I have a Sunfish 14' and it's very easy to sail and transport. This is a "cartoppable" sailboat, so you don't need a trailer


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## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

I sailed my Flying Scott for the first time today. I was very impressed. We picked it up (free, get it out of here) 3 weeks ago. Of course there were some hardware and running rigging issues to sort out and we decided to go out in spite of the small craft warning. I haven't piloted a sailboat in about 9 years and my crew were my wife who has sailed twice before and my 11 year old son who has sailed 3-4 times. It was pretty windy, a solid 15-20 with bigger gusts.
What a great boat! Super stable for such a fast boat, super fast for such a stable boat. We passed everything on the bay, we blew past a couple of daysailers on a broad reach like they were standing still. The boat isn't exactly forgiving per se but I think you'd need to try really hard to capsize it. I made a couple of mistakes but we stayed dry. It's wide enough that when you get hit with a hard gust it will start to lift the rudder out a bit and you round up rather than going over. It will reward you with speed when you get it right but it won't punish you too bad if you don't. Overall a great design. Easy to set up solo, easy to launch, easy to tow, easy to sail, and fun.
Now I'll paint it!


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## boats4me (Aug 8, 2009)

*Answer for Look of altered Starwind 19*

The 83 Starwind 19 was repaired after a hurricane and at that time options 
led to combining parts of a Compac with fiberglass work to give the unique
round portlights on either side. Great sailing to everyone !!!


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

I'm learning to sail on a Flying Scott and I can definitely recommend it as a good beginner boat for daysailing - lots of fun as well.


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## boats4me (Aug 8, 2009)

*Samll boat sailing*

I'm sure you will enjoy your Flying Scott from a few things I've been reading.
The sailing adventure is all new to me and is something I have always wanted to learn. I believe the starwind19 will be a good staring place for me.


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## tsuidc (Mar 2, 2008)

I agree with the recommendation of a San Juan 21. Easy to tow, only 1400#. Sails well under light winds, well built and relatively inexpensive. Good for day sailing, one design racing and short cruises. Quite a few one design SJ21 racing fleets around the country. Racing against seasoned sailors is one of the best ways to learn to sail well. We have also cruised ours (many years ago) up the Canadian Gulf Islands and the Inside Passage for three weeks (we are short people). Hardly used the outboard, even picked up moorages at the marine parks under sail. Simple boat, just drop the hook and relax, no worries. Makes people on the large cruisers envious, when you are relaxing and enjoying yourselves, they are spending all their time maintaining their systems and fixing their engines. There is quite a bit of truth in the saying that ones enjoyment on the water is inversely proportional to the size of ones boat. Get a boat that sails well under light winds if you do a lot of summer sailing. If you do look at a San Juan 21, look closely for deck core rot (soft decks).


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## casioqv (Jun 15, 2009)

My wife and I have a Catalina 22 that we use for inland lake sailing, and I highly reccomend it. It's light enough to tow easily behind our Volvo station wagon, can be rigged for a day trip on a lake, but has enough cabin space and seaworthyness for overnighting and costal cruising.

Also, you can find them everywhere for very cheap, and they have a good racing community in certain places (depends on where you are).

Overall though, look on Craigslist to see what you can find a good deal on! There's no reason to be set on a certain model. I was looking for any small sailboat, and the C22 is what I happened to find cheaply- but now that I know more about it I think I couldn't have made a better choice!


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## Andyman (Jul 20, 2007)

Aquarius 23. Nice little boat. Very easy to singlehand. Nice interior layout. Very trailerable. Two people can raise the mast although three makes it much easier. A great support group on the Yahoo groups. Also, very affordable.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Ideas for Affordable Bluewater Pocket Cruisers*

Hello Sailors,
I am interested in an affordable bluewater pocket cruiser. My background is several decades of coastal cruising in pearsons & catalinas. Have done some shorter hops to Tortugas & Bahamas. Want to go sooner rather than later, hence i am going solo and though I like the Flicka, Bristol Channel Cutter, Frances 26, I don't want to blow the whole cruising kitty on 50K on a boat. Several friends mentioned some Brit boats like the Corribee (several have gone transatlantic) and the Newbridge. Anyone have any input on their seaworthiness? I know they are cramped, but I want an affordable boat to get me out there now, not in 10 years driving a seagoing RV.
Thanks


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