# Hans Christian Cheaper Alternative



## williamkiester (Aug 25, 2010)

I fell in love with the Hans Christian 38

1982 Hans Christian MK II Cutter sailboat for sale in California

and the 33 footer would more than do, but they are really expense (33 is about $80k and the 38 was $115k). Does anyone have suggestions of similar boats at more reasonable prices? I already have the Nassau 34 on my list.

The features that are attracting me are the beautiful but tight interiors (edited per the comment below) and seaworthiness.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Slocum..
1985 Slocum Cutter Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
but I don't think there was any Slocums less than 43', could be wrong about that. Also, I am a bit confused, you say


> roomy interiors


 these boats generally have less interior volume than comparable productions boat of the same LOA.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

While way out my price range, I don't think that is expensive for what you get the prices you quote. I think the prices vary lots too for the boat just finished their 2nd circumnavigation they and the boat are tired and want to get out, to the boat just upgraded ready to start that cruise. 

I too think they are one of the prettiest boats. I fell in love with one when I learned to sail, even rounded up enough friends to afford to take out an HC33 when I was in college.

Given the amount of woodwork, especially teak would you want a version cheaply made? As much as I love the look, having that much teak would be a maintenance nightmare, even worse if poorly put together.

I think a more modern alternative with a canoe hull would be a Crealock design, Westsail 32 or 42, Crealock 31 or 38s but you won't find those cheap either. There is a lot of fiberglass, lead and in the case of the HC wood as well in these boats. The only way to find them cheap is if a lot of stuff is broken on board.


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## williamkiester (Aug 25, 2010)

Dear Sailortjk1: I think the fine wood work and smart layout makes them feel roomier. I guess I don't need the room, but rather the beauty. I do like the two double berths , though they point out that one is really a 1 1/2 berth at best. I don't like the lack of door, but could live with that if someone gave me a Hans Christian.


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## williamkiester (Aug 25, 2010)

The Slocum cutter looks great. by the way. The Crealocks and Westsails also. I need to get a deal or win the lottery. I'm happy to do some elbow work if anyone sees something interesting with an easier price tag in this style boat.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

~$100K is the going price for a HC38, a Tayana37 or the Baba/Tashiba versions for a 'quality' boat of the mid 80s vintage. You can go cheaper if you want a 'beater' but these boats are starting to show their age especially if the maintenance was ignored.

The teak is no problem if you use one of the modern long lasting coating systems: Honey Teak, Bristol, etc. Typical service life of Honey Teak is about 10 years with 'some' maintenance coats in between.

The REAL problem on these era boats is that their screwed-down teak decks are now becoming 'wet' and in needing of a $$$$$ replacement, and some have severe chainplate problems ---- all 'age' related.

Here's an example of very maintained Tayana 37: 1984 Tayana Cutter sailboat for sale in South Carolina


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## williamkiester (Aug 25, 2010)

That Tayana Cutter is a beautiful boat. Unfortunately I don't have the $100k to spend, but hope springs eternal.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

williamkiester said:


> That Tayana Cutter is a beautiful boat. Unfortunately I don't have the $100k to spend, but hope springs eternal.


How much do you have to spend? Do you plan on some ocean passages soon? If not there are boats of these sizes for a lot less money.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

williamkiester said:


> That Tayana Cutter is a beautiful boat. Unfortunately I don't have the $100k to spend, but hope springs eternal.


If you have the skills you can 'restore' a 'beater' into prime condition. Such 'beaters' sometimes can be had for ~$50-60K.

Problems:
Rusted out black iron fuel tanks - repair with FRG
Rotted chainplate bases - totally replace or install 'outboard plates'
Early 80s and older boats have wooden spars - avoid entirely
Screwed down teak decks ..... avoid or be prepared to totally rebuild the decks - costly and backbreaking even as a DIY project. 
Rigging - OEM rigging is 'trash', replace entirely using norseman, etc. connectors. 
Bowsprit rot .... easy but laborious DIY project.
Diesel engines with well over 5-6,000 hours.

Best place to find any of these boats (HC/Ty37/Baba/Tashiba) available -- from internet "owners groups".

;-)


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

RichH said:


> If you have the skills you can 'restore' a 'beater' into prime condition. Such 'beaters' sometimes can be had for ~$50-60K.
> ;-)


You better want that boat bad to pay 60k for a fixer upper. My guess by the time you replaced the engine and teak deck, and the boat has been on the hard for a year or more, you would have wished you spent the $100k and was out sailing instead.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

If you want a less expensive boat to me that means you probably are not happy about paying 20k to 30k for a new teak deck either. There are many solid lower maintenance boats out there at good prices. Any boat has enough issues with soft decks, engine issues, rigging, systems, etc that you don't need to add the teak deck troubles to the list. After 10 or 20 years they get very expensive and/or labor intensive.


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

jephotog said:


> You better want that boat bad to pay 60k for a fixer upper. My guess by the time you replaced the engine and teak deck, and the boat has been on the hard for a year or more, you would have wished you spent the $100k and was out sailing instead.


The best thing to do is be patient...and have a wide list of boats to pick from. Then wait for that rarest of rare listings...the "Owners Plans Have Changed" listing.

This is a boat that was bought as a fixer upper. Then the owner, over years of backbreaking, laborious work brought the boat into bristol condition...only to have plans dramatically change. This is one of those "2%" boats that is absolutely cherry. The sale is, unfortunately, due to one or more of the 3 "d"s....Divorce, Death, or Disease. Cheery subjects.

That is when you come in and give a fair, full price cash offer pending survey with quick closing. Usually the boat is heavily discounted for the equipment and model year offered, so haggling doesn't make a lot of sense anyway.

You will get that $60k fixer upper with an additional $80k in upgrades equipment and remodels...for usually $90-$100k.

Be patient...3-5 of these boats appear a year. You just have to be positioned to move quick when it does. Have a plan.


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## remetau (Jan 27, 2009)

We found our HC33 for about 20-25k under market 5 years ago.

Our decks needed re caulked which is a lot of work, but they should last at least another 10 years now at which time we may rip up and replace with cork or go without. Our teak decks are not screwed into the deck. They were put together using small stringer boards and then glued down to the deck. The decks are solid not cored.

If the boat you find is in good condition, then IMO you'll be hard pressed to find a better built boat in the 33' range.


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## williamkiester (Aug 25, 2010)

I'm early in my search and have a partner involved. I'm thinking that a great looking boat helps sell our families on this which gets the price we can afford up. We are intent on sailing offshore. My partner is very salty, me less than he, but competent. I have a third party interested who is a fine woodworker so with three in maybe we get to $45k if there's a boat we really have to have. With just two of us, my guess is $30k is our tops, and we are more likely to get something in the $10k range so this is really day dreaming. I'm back to considering the Cheoy Lee offshore 31, but the Hans Christians and boats of that ilk inspire bank robbery. My intention was to find a fixer upper, but you are right to say that we'd be hard pressed to pay that kind of dough to be working on the hard all summer.


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## remetau (Jan 27, 2009)

williamkiester said:


> I'm early in my search and have a partner involved. I'm thinking that a great looking boat helps sell our families on this which gets the price we can afford up. We are intent on sailing offshore. My partner is very salty, me less than he, but competent. I have a third party interested who is a fine woodworker so with three in maybe we get to $45k if there's a boat we really have to have. With just two of us, my guess is $30k is our tops, and we are more likely to get something in the $10k range so this is really day dreaming. I'm back to considering the Cheoy Lee offshore 31, but the Hans Christians and boats of that ilk inspire bank robbery. My intention was to find a fixer upper, but you are right to say that we'd be hard pressed to pay that kind of dough to be working on the hard all summer.


Yeah, I think paying 45k for an HC or Tayana would be really low and would most likely need a lot of work. These are maintenance heavy boats, and as everybody mentioned, if they aren't in decent shape, then you'll have your hands full.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

williamkiester said:


> we'd be hard pressed to pay that kind of dough to be working on the hard all summer.


With a boat like this a fixer upper is not an all summer project.

I think Night Owl's observations are very relevant. Sometimes the plans changed are due to the owner being too old to sail the boat once the boat is ready. 

Check out the Frank Edmund:
Sailboat Moves

Imagine planning a circumnavigation at 45 but ending up starting at 70.

I do like the thought or a cork decked HC though.


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## williamkiester (Aug 25, 2010)

I have a little daysailer to keep me company so I was thinking of buying a five to eight year fixer upper, but a really cheap one, not one that breaks the bank. I feared I was out of my league. Thank you all for the input. And who knows, maybe Angela Jolie will leave Brad for me and buy me a boat, or I will stumble on DB Cooper's wad of money.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

As others have said, you'd be very fortunate to find an HC 38 or 33T in good condition within your budget. You'll also be fortunate to find something similar (size, quality, looks, design, bluewater capability) within your budget. The HC33T is my dream boat at nearly any price. But if my budget never allows an HC, but there are many others that are "similar" and can sometimes be had for much less that I would consider.

Here's a few that haven't yet been mentioned, though there still not likely to be found for less than the $45k you mentioned:

Southern Cross 31/35
Baba 30/35
Valiant 32
Willard 8 Ton
Fantasia 35
Union 36
Fuji 32/35
Alajuela 33
Rafiki 35/37


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## williamkiester (Aug 25, 2010)

Thanks for the boat list. I will check those out when I get a chance. The Southern Cross 31 is already on my list but I'm worried it is a bit pokey for day sails and coastal stuff. I've been meaning to check out a Baba. And there are a bunch of new exciting names for me to explore. A quick peak and the Valiant 32 might be a good one for me to consider. I'm thinking I want a fin keel offshore cruiser or a cut away keel. The Cascade 36 is current top of the list but their often have weird interiors and they are scarce on the east coast as far as I can tell. The boat research has been great fun. Thank you all for the suggestions.


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## williamkiester (Aug 25, 2010)

We bought an Allied Luders 33, not in the same class as an HC but will go as far. We are very excited. Sailing her up from the Chesapeake in a week!


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## Marcvet (Mar 23, 2008)

*HC Alternative*

As an alternative to the HC 33 or 38 you should consider a Lord Nelson 35. some poeple consider them the "Cadillac" of the Hans Christians. I have hull 27 and it's built like a brick s---house! Also, the teak decks are screwed down but directly to fiberglass, not balsa core. The boats are well insulated and very dry.
Cheers,
Marcvet

s/v Gant Man


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Congrats WilliK!!! Get some pics up when you can.

BTW - your Bluewater Sailer thread kicked some serious butt. Nice work dude!

How does your Allied do?


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## williamkiester (Aug 25, 2010)

The Luders has been great. She keeps momentum at 5-7 knots well. She's a little underpowered with a new Yanmar 27 hp diesel. That said, she's handled very steep six foot following seas with agility offshore of Long Island, and beat into a 30-35 knot wind with 4-6 ft waves from Salem to Ptown overnight without drama. She's earned my trust. She sails with a nice smooth motion. She's comfortable, fun and able. She looks a bit practical and gruff next to all the fancy yachts in the Cape but was the only lady shoving of for the Cape Cod canal current change at 11:30 at night. She's easy to handle, and I imagine I can singlehand her fairly easily. Her cockpit is comfortable and the decks wide which makes for nice lounging on the mooring. I'm very excited. I will figure out how to post photos and get some up.


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## sidney777 (Jul 14, 2001)

How a Vancouver sailboat ? I don't know how large they make them, but have seen with rounded stern and beautiful teak for blue water sailing .


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## Cherp (Aug 3, 2011)

What's a "beater"?


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## emoney (Jun 2, 2010)

Congrats, William. Looking forward to the pics. I'm surprised that the 27hp isn't enough power?? What does she weigh?


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## RatherBeSailin (Apr 24, 2018)

Learned a lot in this thread!

The union and HC look almost identicle! I will have to do more research on the union.


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## ReefMagnet (May 8, 2008)

Google "Young Sun 35". With a name like that you just know you would be able pick one up cheap if you can find one and the quality of them doesn't seem that bad.


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## [email protected] (Sep 22, 2018)

RichH said:


> If you have the skills you can 'restore' a 'beater' into prime condition. Such 'beaters' sometimes can be had for ~$50-60K.
> 
> Problems:
> Rusted out black iron fuel tanks - repair with FRG
> ...


Rich
Im looking at a HC43 Christina. 
Her rigging/chain-plates are embedded in the glass fiber. Do you have any more info on the repositioning of the chain plates outboard?

Thanks


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