# dreams, hopes, and reality



## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

I need some experienced and educated help.

I am a 24 year old college graduate in the albany NY Area who is looking to start live aboard sailing. I am right on the hudson (which i understand can be terrible to sail) but time is not of the essence and making a quick trek through the hudson out to the ocean is not a worry. I can limp along with the current when it is in my favor if the wind along the hudson is really as terrible as i am told. 

My goal is to leave the hudson, get out to the ocean via NYC, and then stop and anchor all along the coast until i get up to Maine where my father has a small house about a mile from the ocean. 

my budget is limited, around the 5,000 dollar range. I know this isn't much, but would boats like older cal25's and Tanzers be suitable for this kind of voyage? Remotely experienced locals are telling me that i need a 32+ boat and should be spending over 13,000 dollars on a boat.... 

does anyone have any kind of suggestions or help for me, motivational or not? I am sick of the work grind already despite having a high paying and challenging job. 9-5 is not for me in the least bit, and it is draining away my excitement for life. 

is this even a remotely feasible goal? No is an alright answer. i admit my experience is limited to day sailing as a youth, but i feel the ocean and solitude calling and i want to get out there and feel alive again. 


solidarity,
ryan


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Hey ryan, welcome to SN dude.

There's tons of info on here - as well as many, many salts that will talk you through just about anything.

While you're waiting for some responses you can start poking around in this thread: *The Salt's Corner Table*

It's a thread with some of the best info to some of the most asked questions around here - including yours. And you can see who some of the go-to guys are.

Enjoy.


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

thanks a bunch, must have missed that in my search!


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Ryan, Welcome to Sailnet!

Without getting into specific makes/models, there's no reason why a properly designed and equipped 25-odd footer can't make the trip you intend. However, this is somewhat on the small size for long-term living-aboard.

Also, just be aware that low-cost boats often come with high-cost maintenance and other issues. Often times the better value is in a somewhat higher price range than the bracket you're looking at.

Although not directly analogous to your situation, you might also want to peruse this thread, to get an idea of some of the considerations and realities involved in fixing up an older boat on a budget, etc: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/40901-youngbuck-trying-start-cruising.html Just make sure you read through to the end.

And don't hesitate to keep asking questions. We're happy to help where we can.


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## joethecobbler (Apr 10, 2007)

completely do-able, however you must be at least ten percent smarter than the equipment your working with.
just read everything you can get access to and judge for yourself your comfort level and take it as it comes. 
If your looking for someone else to tell you you can do it,that is what you will hear and find. If your listening for someone to tell you it cannot be done, you will find that more easily. 
there are as many answers as there are questions. And Sooooo many different tolerance levels among sailors. 
Some cannot go two days at anchor and others never tie to a dock. Some think $30-100 a night for dockage is a "deal" others consider it a complete waste of money. You will find out quickly which camp you fall into once you get underway.
Safety is the watchword take you time and head the weather. the North atlantic is a harsh ocean comparetively. 
good luck.


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

jon, thanks so much. 

It is geat to hear remotely positive feedback as i am surrounded by armchair adventurers who think me sailing out the hudson to NYC alone is a completely absurd and impossible act. It is hard not to get discouraged.


Do you have any suggestions on good reading for cruising/sailing in general? also any motivational sea stories would be great to have as well. 

thanks again! 
smooth sailing,
ryan


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## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

As motivational source I'd suggest 
Atom Voyages | Voyaging Around the World on the Sailboat Atom with James and Mei
Trip is completely do-able.

There are two sailboats suitable for the trip on local craiglist
O-day 22 a bit too small for living, however is big enough to make a trip
O'DAY 22FT SAIL BOAT W/TRAILER
O-day 25 is big enough to live on for short time
Sail Boat


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

thanks Ru! motivation is key.

now to start finding boats... since i am ont he hudson it seems like there aren't that many to choose from. Would you guys suggest as deep a keel as possible considering i want to be somewhat oceanic? I found a sloop22 in pristine condition for a GREAT price but it has the much smaller kep and i am worried about that out just off the coast, not to mention it is a 22 and i would feel a lot better with a 27 or 28.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

ryanjenkins said:


> my budget is limited, around the 5,000 dollar range. I know this isn't much, but would boats like older cal25's and Tanzers be suitable for this kind of voyage? Remotely experienced locals are telling me that i need a 32+ boat and should be spending over 13,000 dollars on a boat....
> 
> does anyone have any kind of suggestions or help for me, motivational or not? I am sick of the work grind already despite having a high paying and challenging job. 9-5 is not for me in the least bit, and it is draining away my excitement for life.


Hey Ryan,

It's possible as is, but ...

Have you considered staying put a bit longer ? Consider this - if you leave now you will have to cut your expenses to live on the amount of money you are talking about, of course, so if that is the case, why not go ahead and do that now and continue at your high paying job for a while to build up a cruising kitty ? You don't have to change a single thing about what you are planning to do, same boat, same destination, same perspective, the only difference is it takes a little longer and you have some cash'ola in your pocket when you leave. You may find you have more motivation and excitement if you have a set departure date and a plan, and you could even get the boat now and live on it if you wanted.

Of course all that goes out the window if you start purchasing extra gear, planning to get a bigger boat, and all the rest, that is how people end up with marina queens that are tied to the dock that never actually leave to go on their cruise.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Get and read the 'Eldridge Tide & Pilot Book'. There are many wonderful wind, tide and navigating tips printed throughout this book.
The 'Cruising Guide to the New England Coast' has a chapter that details all the marinas on the Hudson as well as along the Atlantic coast.
We got our Tartan 27' for under $5K but have put much more then that into it over the years.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

a relative of mine sailed an antique sloop sans engine from claverack, ny to ny city manhattan in 1976 ----took a few days to clear the gw bridge, but it is doable----if you can make money anywhere in this world, why wait for the time window to open--is nearly shut----most of us do not recognize a closing window when we see it---go now --work en route--have a good time---enjoy the world--is there for us still--wont be for long---LOL----btw--is a BUYERS market--so have fun searching for a boat--there are many --even a bit larger than you originally mentioned--keep your eyes open and enjoy your mission.....


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

Maybe I missed something, but I find it a little odd that the thread has gotten even this far without someone mentioning to Ryan that he ought to gain some practical experience before he heads out into the open ocean on a strange boat, single handed to boot. Ryan, I love your spirit and am definitely not squash your dream, just slow it a little. At the very least you should take some sanctioned sailing classes. And IMHO, you should experience sailing on a few different vessels before you plunk down the cash on some tub and sail blissfully and ignorantly out to sea. Live the dream, but be smart and be safe.


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## kekkul (Aug 31, 2007)

Boccata d'aria is italian words..........


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

i figgered before he could get the boat from northern hudson river to noo jawrk seedy that he would have learned to sail a little---after the 4th day of back and forth under george washington bridge, coast guard will ask if he needs a tow----then they will find out what he reallly knows and act accordingly---i had no doubt that he would be stopped by some force between upstate noo jawrk and the seedy.(city).....long river for learning--and gets much weather---is a gooood medium for learning before it makes ye work yourself out to sea...LOL.....is 200 miles of learning---a decent start...LOL...many shoals and currents and weather changes there too----dont worry, he will learn something by the time he gets down the river lol....


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## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

After Neu Jok Seety he will need to get through Hell Gate and sail another 200 miles of Long Island Sound. He wont get through Hell Gate without understanding charts, tides and navigation rules. Guys with machine guns on a bow will help him to get the knowledge faster. After he clears Long Island Sound, he will have some 400-500 miles under his keel. It is more than most of us put in five seasons...

In my opinion, his plan is fastest and surest way to gain some experience...


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## bloodhunter (May 5, 2009)

Ryan,
In a word GoForIt. 
What you want to do is very possible and as has been pointed out this is very much a buyers market so you might be able to get more boat than you think for your 5k. 
You ought to learn enough getting down the Hudson first to determine if its really what you want to do and to make it to your final destination.
There's just one thing I'd like to add. As a cruising sailor the absolute worst thing you can do is to set a fixed and firm schedule. A lot of skippers have gotten into major trouble because they decided they had to be at a certain place by a certain time. That's a recipe for disaster. The best thing you can do is relax, take things as they are given and generally play it as it lays


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

bloodhunter said:


> Ryan,
> In a word GoForIt.
> What you want to do is very possible and as has been pointed out this is very much a buyers market so you might be able to get more boat than you think for your 5k.
> You ought to learn enough getting down the Hudson first to determine if its really what you want to do and to make it to your final destination.
> There's just one thing I'd like to add. As a cruising sailor the absolute worst thing you can do is to set a fixed and firm schedule. A lot of skippers have gotten into major trouble because they decided they had to be at a certain place by a certain time. That's a recipe for disaster. The best thing you can do is relax, take things as they are given and generally play it as it lays


but you said it sooo nice!!!! what he says and what we said above LOL---is a really good way to learn--traverse hudson then LI sound....circumnavigate manhattan------go for it!!!!! find a stout boat and have a really good time--we will see ye out there......


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Go read Shrimpy by Shane Acton. He could not sail when he bought the boat. Had never raised the mast when he set off down the river. Learned to navigate as he went along. Sailed it around the world, mostly single handed.

The boat was a 18 foot plywood bilge keeler. 

I am not suggesting you follow in his footsteps but it is worth the read anytime you get the collywobbles over too little boat,knowledge,experience etc.


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## Garffin (Oct 22, 2009)

Ryan go for it! But But I will say this. Going from day sails to overnighters on a trip like you are planning you are going to need to learn the rules of roads really good. There is a lot of traffic for the start of your trip and knowing what you should do when you have a cruise ship coming at you and a barge on the portside coming across your bow while at the same time the winds die off the current is against you ect&#8230;. Sailing at night time is a whole other ball game. Which you will have to do at some point. You will get caught out after dark at some point. You have to be ready and know how to read all the lights on the water. If I were you I would get some short night trips with a friend on board just so you can see what it is like. You never know if you will get caught out after dark and having all the tools you can get navigation wise will only add to your confidence. Which in turn will help you stay safe which is rule one. As far as getting you a boat for 5k and making that trip man that's the best part. You are in a buyer's market right now. There are a lot of good boats out there for cheap. I just bought an ok boat for 325$ that's right 325$ and I have sailed it from LI to Annapolis Md as is with no upgrades or anything. So take your time look around. You might have to be willing to go get that boat a bit south or north from where you are right now. So I know you can do it. One look to a friend to go out with and get as much night sailing in as you can. 2 get gear to keep you on the boat if you are solo, life lines, harness ECT&#8230; Get yourself all the charts before you leave. Get yourself a good gps with preloaded marine charts and read all the rules about navigating. You can do it man. Good luck and keep us posted. Dan


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## irwin325cc (Feb 11, 2009)

Way to go sailnet! I'm proud of all of you. Its good to see that a thread like this doesnt go straight to your going to need a 4k life raft, 6k in electronics, and a 40 foot boat. I know he is'nt saying he wants to sail the around the world at the age of 15 but I'm still proud.

IMHO its doable and just depends on how much you need to get by on. Less is more, and more is less. Know your boat before you go, an older boat would have issues that will show up every time you go out. I've had mine a year and a half and just over the last few months the great part of going sailing is when I'm back at dock my "fix it list" is finally getting shorter than longer. But I've only been able to have her out about four days per a month though.

Here's a couple great quotes that may help with your motivation. 

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain 

"I don’t know where I picked it up but I have always been wary of success. Only because success in the wrong field is far more dangerous than failure in a field in which you belong." --Lee Winters


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Save up more money over the winter and study up on boat buying/surveying boats.

Buy the boat in spring and sail up and down the upper Hudson for practice.

Head to Maine in late summer.

Enjoy the whole process


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

Hi Ryan,

I see that we have all the Dreams,Hopes and motivation covered so far.

So I'll introduce just a little more reality Since it's the dead of winter and your end of the river will probably be freezing soon; you will have alot of time until spring to research this undertaking. As enjoyable and romantic as sailing alone in a small boat up the coast to maine sounds..and can be....This is some Serious **** ! So if you want to succeed, keep your boat, and arrive alive, I would recommend that you spend the next few months learning/studying/knowing exactly what's involved here. 

For starters, I would get out a map and look at where it is you want to go, and how you are going to get there on the water. While one can exit the hudson river and enter the ocean heading for maine, the coast of Long Island is a long exposed coastline, with very unfriendly inlets in bad weather, and an overnight in good weather...Anchoring in the ocean is not a feasible strategy.

The alternate route as has be mentioned is the East River, to the long island sound, Block island sound, Buzzards Bay, Cape Cod Canal, Cape Cod bay...while not the ocean, there are some serious challenges to a small craft in these waters....swift currents, FOG..large shipping, and big tidal ranges to mention a few...once past Cape Cod/Provincetown..there's some serious open
water sailing to get to Maine.....

Next, as Garfin has pointed out you'll need some tools: Charts..of the whole trip...a gps..and some plotting tools...all the coast guard required safety equipment for your vessel......a current eldridge tide and currents book...a VHF radio..FOG HORNS..( they make environmentaly friendly ones) to mention a few...and then you need to know how to use them all.

Plan your trip...day by day....Distance= speed x time......if your boat averages 4 knots..in 8 hours you will be able to travel 32 miles.....in 12 hours...48 miles.....you can always change you plan...but a back-up plan.....means you had a plan to begin with. It's always good to know where all the safe harbors are along your route...if severe weather comes up....options!!!

You will need to know the Coast Guard " Rules of the Road" and What the Aids to Navigation mean...( all the markers) And a myriad of other bits and pieces.

So, is it doable...yes! will you be able to do it? it's entirely up to you.
Preparation and knowlege will go a long way to making or breaking this trip for you...

George Washington, was able to cross the East River in the middle of the night...and escape the british...because the british ships..could not get up the east river against the wind, current and fog..to block his retreat....and the rest is history...

Let us know when you leave, as many of us travel these waters routinely.
We'll look for you

Best of luck!


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## Garffin (Oct 22, 2009)

Tempest is right on the money!!! Take his advice... The one thing that I get worried over more than the weather, my boat or eq is getting run over by another boat


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

thank you all so much for your input!

As of now here is my current progress:

1) I signed up for the sailing club here at the school i work for (Rensselaer Polytechnic) as well as the saratoga lake yachting club. Also, I have two very good older friends in their mid 30's who have vast sailing experience and have agreed to help me out with trial runs over on the hudson and my first few overnighter trips.

2) I have secured winter storage at a friends barn that he has graciously donated for my endeavor, as well as figured out the pricing for the local marina here. The pricing for the marina if i were to live aboard is very good, but to be paying my current rent as well as the marina fees scares me a tiny bit, but oh well. Maybe i just hopefully find a boat/trailer combo that i can easily go for day sails on the river to learn before i make the plunge into living on the marina full time?

3) I have been reading / youtubing my butt of to learn what i can. My main fears right now are night time sailing and dealing with single handed sailing (ie: learning how to let the boat steer itself without having to purchase one of those highly expensive windvanes) . Also, without getting out there and "doing it" understanding the whole where i can dock / where i can anchor thing is rather difficult (especially with hudson currents).

anyone seen this in use before?
Self Steering Without A Windvane

4) i have been looking at boats a whole bunch, and although it is a buyers market i am finding little to nothing around my area and the prospect of buying a boat from up at lake george and having it trucked to me just seems expensive in comparison to trying to find something local with a trailer. Since i have to store it in the barn in the winter, it would also be great to have a trailer with it.

5) I know this is a newbie question, but how/where can i get charts the cheapest way possible? They seem pricey! in this day and age there aren't just these things widely available on the internet for me to print/plot? If i were to do my trip from ny to maine to florida, it is looking like hundred and hundreds of dollars in maps!

thanks so much for all of your help, and if anybody knows of any boats in the albany/troy area i would love the help! I feel like finding a good deal on a good boat will be a huge step for me to follow up with all the other aspects of things. It admittedly gets hard reading non stop about things and studying charts when you dont have a boat looking over your shoulder begging for adventure.

thanks again! you all rock!


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

Sounds to me like you've got the right approach and you're being smart about gaining experience. those fears you mention will subside with that experience. Take advantage of those friends and your club, they will all be good assets. As far as finding the right boat, just look, look, look. Keep an eye on craigs list, ebay, yacht world, etc. on the www. And use those people above to ask them questions about boats. After they're around you in a sailing environment, they'll be able to help you assess the things that will be important to you. I would suggest giving the actual purchasing of a boat a little time so as to give that process a little time to work. That is, if you can start gaining experience on OPB (other peoples' boats). I think it is best to learn the basics of sailing on a small boat, the likes of which may be available at your club. Take it slow and easy and don't move on to the 'next" challenge (night sailing, open sea, etc.) until you're comfortable. on the other hand ya gotta press the envelope a little or you don't learn. Like I said, it sounds like you got a good head on your shoulders, so you'll be fine. So get out there, be smart, be safe, but be a sailor!!!


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

thanks izz!


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## seafrontiersman (Mar 2, 2009)

Tanzer is a great choice as is the Watkins 23 or 25. What you plan to do is completely reasonable if you watch your weather.

Good luck!


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

Hi Ryan,

You can download charts free..from the NOAA web-site, they also have an online viewer. There are also free downloadable chartplotters, I believe there's one around here called open cpn. I'm not familiar with it, but I'm sure others can weigh in.

Also, you can download, the Coast Guard Rules of navigation here

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/mwv_files/NR_Files/COMDTINST M16672.2D_NavRules(Corrected).pdf

You can download ..Chart number 1 which give you all the chart symbols..
kindof like a dictionary for charts

U.S. Chart No. 1

There's a ton of information free online.

Check out both the US coast guard site United States Coast Guard - Home Page

and NOAA...you'll want to check their weather too..( see weather then go to Marine weather )

Experimental Marine Forecast for Latitude 40.48°N and Longitude 73.71°W

NOAA - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

When was it that you planned on leaving? This Spring, Summer?

I'm on the other end of the Hudson River near NY Harbor...
When you are headed down this way.. let me know...


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## genieskip (Jan 1, 2008)

I've made the trip down the Hudson and up to Mass/Maine/Nova Scotia every summer this decade. I'm the Highlands area, near West Point. In the early years of the decade I had a 24 footer, then a 32 and now a 40'. It took a long time in the 24' and now in the 40, with a good crew, I can get to Nova Scotia in 4 days. As has been said often, the most dangerous thing on a boat is a schedule. If you leave the schedule ashore and take your time you should have few problems. 

Take it easy, stay in port if the weather is iffy till you know more about your boat and how to sail it in rough weather and plan your stages so that you don't have sail at night till you know more or you have some experienced help. The trip from the upper Hudson to Maine is one that is filled with good places to duck into and only a couple of sections require you to go more than 20 or 30 miles between good harbors, and usually good harbors are closer together than that. There is a longish stretch between Watch hill and Point Judith (I'm not near my charts and I don't remember the milage, but it makes for a very long day in a small boat) and another past Gloucester, though you can put in at the Isles of Shoals and spend a very pleasant night there.

By the way, you can't circumnavigate Manhattan in a sailboat without dropping the mast. Too many low bridges on the Harlem river. You have to go down the Hudson to the Battery at the southern end of Manhattan and up the East River, through Hell's Gate to Long Island Sound. I've gone through Hell's gate at better than 14 kts by the GPS with a fair current and last summer, when I had to fight my way through with a foul tide, I was doing 2 1/2 at full throttle, so pick your time carefully. It is an absolutely beautiful cruise and I never tire of it.

As long as you take your time and don't try to push the envelope in bad weather or fog you should be fine. The advice about buying and getting familiar with Eldrige is key. It can tell you about tides and currents and has much information on rules of the road and much else you need to know to make the trip. Chapman's is another terrific resource.

It is important to have a working engine of some kind. Getting around the tricky currents in NY and getting through the Cape Cod canal without one is difficult to impossible (it is illegal to navigate the Cape Cod Canal under sail, you MUST have an engine or you will be denied passage.)

I heartily second the idea of spending the winter reading and learning and the spring practicing on your boat before trying the trip but if you learn some piloting, some seamanship and learn how to anchor well (and spend the money to get good ground tackle) you should be OK if you take it easy till you have gained some experience. I don't know who the "old salts" are who are telling you that going down the Hudson is hard but I don't really think they know too much if they say that. It is a very peasant trip.

A few more thoughts

You don't have to buy individual charts. Chartbooks are available. One covers from Cape May to Block Island and another from there to the North of Maine. They are about $125 each and for 10/15 bucks more you can get a Hudson River chart. For well under 300 you can have the paper charts you'll need. You can get the charts in digital form for free (check some of the older threads on this site) and keep them on a laptop but whatever you do don't depend on only them for your trip. The laptop will get wet or run out of juice just when you need it most.

Make sure you have a working compass. You can plan all you want but you might still get caught out in a time of low visibility. It would be helpful to take a Coast Guard Auxiliary or Power squadron piloting course over the winter. 

Boats under $5K are available in the area. This summer there were a Catalina 22 and a 25 for sale at my club for under that amount. The smaller boat was in better shape and therefore cost more. There are lots of threads on the site covering pros and cons of boatbuying so I won't rehash them but you should hunt them down and read them.

Don''t listen to the old fogies that tell you that it can't be done. Be smart and careful about it but take a shot.


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## dongreerps (May 14, 2007)

A subjext not yet covered in this thread: personal comfort. Make sure you have the clothes and personal gear necessaey to keep yourself comfortable on the trip. If you leave in the early spring, and get caught in a cold snap, without adequate gear you will be miserable, and may even suffer life threatening hypothermia. So in the check list of things to do, provide for protection from the weather for yourself.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

Circumnavigating manhattan made me smile. Wouldn't it be nice for you guys coming DOWN the river if that were possible. 

But then you'd miss all the good scenery..!


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

CrazyRu said:


> As motivational source I'd suggest
> Atom Voyages | Voyaging Around the World on the Sailboat Atom with James and Mei
> Trip is completely do-able.
> 
> ...


wouldn't that oday22 be too small mostly because of its very low keel? I really don't mind living in a very tight space, but i really want to have as safe of a foundation as possible.


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

Update:

i posted this over in the boat reviews forum too hoping for some different responses than just the cruiser crowd:

O'DAY 22FT SAIL BOAT W/TRAILER

i am looking at purchasing this boat for my eventual departure from coast to cruise the east coast. I know this is a small boat, but is it too small for some ocean-ish sailing? My goal is to sail out the hudson, up to maine, and then down to florida/bahamas. I am worried about the small keel but really also love the fact that it is easily trailerable and in really good condition. It has never been in salt water. is such a small keep a really big issue when being anywhere off a lake? Owner said he was getting nailed with gusts before and never felt like the boat was going to tip, but would the waves that i might experience out a mile or so from coast be too much for such a small / small keel boat to handle?

I am a young boy with just a dog to worry about and come from a very DIY/punk scene where sleeping on the floor is something i have become accustomed to. I am not too worried really about cramped quarters, i am worried about my safety on my proposed trip. if i have to spend more money/wait longer than so be it.

here is the info the seller gave to me about the boat and he agreed to 2k for the whole package. Sorry it is typed in such short hand, i noted it all down while on the phone:

solar charge battery. panel on front hatch, keeps the battery charged. one for lights, one for motor. minkota 36 thrust. 5 forward speeds 3 reverse.

trailer with it. same year as boat. galvanized trailer. new bearings in it, new lights, new wiring, new rollers on the trailer. The buks should be replaced on the trailer if it is bought.

3 sails, main, jib, a genoa. never used the genoa before. Great shape. jib and main are a bit tattered, one or two more seasons out of them.

rigging. needs new halyard rolls. new pulleys on haul end, rebuilt both wenches, lines are all in fair shape. halyard lines need to be replaced. standing rigging all good shape, new adjustable clevices on the ends and in good shape.

only thing that needs to be redone, the cabin cushions need to be recovered. V bunk is good covering and good shape. plywood replaced in salon on both sides last year.

really good solid boat mechanically. single handed a lot. short fixed keel. only draws 4 feet of water. 30 or 40 mph wind and it wont tip.

hull is compounded and waxed every year. brand new ideal sail rudder on it. poly flip up rudder 1000 bucks by itself.

sink, alc stove space. porta potty. bilge pump. all cabin lights work great. Toe rails need to be sanded, varnised and sealed.

all paperwork. new winch strap on the trailer.

======


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Pearson 26', 1973 1973 Pearson 26' sailboat

The only disadvantages I can think of with this boat is that it does not appear to have a trailer and has an outboard engine. The cabin on this would be cozy but livable. Pearson boats seem more highly regarded then O'Days generally and this P26 is a coastal cruiser whereas the O'Day 22 seems more of a bay sailor (eg, LI Sound).

The advantages of your O'Day 22' is that it is closer to home and comes with a trailer. Having a trailer will save you a lot of money on winter storage if you have a barn to put it in.

I would not buy a boat right now without being able to try it first as you could be disappointed once you get out on the water in it. It should still be a buyers market come spring when you can actually try the boats out.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

Ryan,

I've never sailed an O'day 22. But I can safely say that it's not the boat I'd go to sea in. 

I've sailed plenty of Pearson 26's and would feel much more comfortable seeing you in a vessel like that or comparable. The Pearson is a full keel sturdy vessel, and in the right weather I wouldn't hesitate an overnight or two on the ocean. Keep in mind that, you have a limited fuel carrying capacity, that you'd use for getting in and out of harbors up rivers and canals...so you'd want to sail as much as possible.

I'm not saying to buy a pearson, there are other boats just as suitable for you goals..keep looking, keep asking.

We are all here to help you!! 

On another note...Ryan, at 24 years old and a college graduate, you've lost your "young boy with a puppy dog status" You've graduated to Adulthood!..

Keep reading and studying..


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

nooooo 24 is not an adult! i refuse! 


thanks for the opinion Tempest, i will keep looking. Hopefully some stuff pops up around here as the spring comes. 

on my way to barnes and noble this morning with some christmas gift cards to pick up some of these suggested books. 

thanks again! sail safe.


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## MarioG (Sep 6, 2009)

That Pearson looked like a sweet deal, but there should be alot of nice deals in your area. I paid $300 for a C-22 off the Hudson complete with everything to make that trip.. This would be a great time to look around different marinas for boats for sail. 

Ryan I'm with you on the dram adventure level, The first mate and I plan to sail our C-22 to the Bahamas this spring , We have done a season of staying on it /sailing to learn the boat and will have it doing a few coastal runs soon. 
This will be the test to see if we want to move aboard a bigger boat full time.

Good luck


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

thanks for the good words Mario. 

I am really partial to making things limited hassle for myself when i can. Getting a boat that is out of the water and with trailer is a huge huge plus to me. That pearson is great and if it had a trailer i would definitely consider taking the plunge on it. Everyone says there will be steals all around me but i am having trouble finding anymore than a few boats! maybe i need to spread my search out to more than an hours drive away. 

will keep all posted, and if any of you are in the albany-ish area and know of any good deals popping up please let me know!


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Ryan,
I found the Pearson 26 on CL using the Hudson Valley location (the boat is Hartford, CT so go figure). There are a lot more sailboats down on LI, CT, and even MA then you will find around Albany/Troy. I would check all of those coastal areas. Things should be a little bit slow until after the holidays when it should pick up again.
If you found a boat on the LI Sound you would have a choice of taking it back up to Albany as a 'maiden voyage' before heading up to ME or just head up to ME.
There are some Pearson 26's that will have trailers. You might need a heavier vehicle to tow one though. Depends what you have now?

Other boats to look at are San Juan 21, 24, Bristol 24 etc.


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

i have a 4 cylinder nissan frontier... kind of worried about its total towing capacity. 150lbs torque 150 hp... need to get the exact specs offline on capacity.

I have friends with bigger trucks who would help if needed. 

The reason for realllyyyy wanting the boat nearby for trial runs is i have not sailed a lot and would love time to practice sailing and get comfortable while keeping my job and working on the boat. 

maybe it is better to make weekend long trips out to mass or the cape in order to to get long periods on the boat and to practice. But honestly, a 5 hour drive out and a 5 hour drive back (at least) to get back to work for mondays sounds like a fun killer.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

ryanjenkins said:


> .........I am a 24 year old college graduate..... looking to start live aboard sailing....... stop and anchor all along the coast until i get up to Maine .....my budget is limited.....does anyone have any kind of suggestions or help for me, motivational or not?......is this even a remotely feasible goal?........my experience is limited to day sailing as a youth, but i feel the ocean and solitude calling and i want to get out there and feel alive...............
> ryan


This sounds familiar! I was 24 when I moved aboard my first sailboat. I couldn't stand upright in my small boat, but I was thrilled. I'm 63 now and still living aboard. I did have a full work career before retiring, but I always lived aboard and did much cruising. 'married and raised two children. There are no restrictions to a life aboard. 'been cruising fulltime since retiring in 2002. Life aboard a sailboat is an option that you can freely take and keep with it or not. There's not a downside! 'take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## CrazyRu (May 10, 2007)

Ryan, I'd skip O'day 22. I didn't know you want to continue going down the coast. There are very few production trailable sailboats, suitable for your purpose.
The best internet resource for such boats is trailersailor
The Trailer Sailor - Home

There is also relatively big group of small designs, suitable for coastal cruising. Most of such boats are homebuilt.

I'd suggest to signup for Yahoo group microcruising
microcruising : Microcruising

There was Bolger Micro for sale in Adirondack for quite a while.
It is homebuilt plywood boat, oddly looking. However, it is very good boat, completely suitable for your purpose, very simple, very easy to maintain and fix.
Here are links, it is same boat, different venues
Bolger Micro 16 sailboat for sale
Used Boats For Sale Adirondack Goodboats Guideboats Guide Boats Guide-boats
(the boat is at the bottom of the page)
Bolger Micro, a trailerable, shoal draft cruising sailboat under 16 ft - I want to ship this delightful if unconventional wooden sailboat, a very safe and seaworthy cat yawl designed by Philip C. Bolger (who designed HMS Surprise, in "Master and Comm


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

i really like the looks of that bristol 26. 

From experienced people, is being trailerable really that huge of a deal? the main reason i wanted it trailerable was so that i could get it to myself and store it in my barn for the winter (no cost). Most sellers i have been contacting have been telling me they can have the boat "delivered" to me for a reasonable cost. 

My reasons for trailering are strictly for cost reasons, but maybe it isn't that big of a deal to have to boat delivered to me and then i assume there are companies in my area that could launch the boat for me? my storage facility is about 35 minutes from the river, maybe even closer to a launchable spot i do not know of yet. Also, my family property in maine is about a mile from the coast and i imagine i can get the boat brought to my property/launched FROM my property there for cheap. 

I ask because a big part of this is an escape, and i really don't want to put myself in a situation where i am leaving my job but now spending even more money a month then i currently am. I know boats can be a money sink, but i had this vision of a trailerable boat being much much easier for me to handle economically. Is that a common thing to do? to have the boat plucked out of the water and delivered to property every season for winter storage? I will start looking around my area to see if thats possible.


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

So how will you support yourself? Even living on a boat costs a bit. This is not a good time to give up a good paying job...hang in there a bit longer. Maybe this 9-5 grind is just you awakening to the "real world" that most people (and probably your parents) have endured for years.

And you can work, and still have sailing for a hobby.


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

i work as an audio/video engineer at a performing arts center. My job lends itself well to traveling and doing work at different theatre spaces/audio production companies. 

I have substantial savings for my age and have been in this job for 3 years, and this city for 7 years. I need a change now and would love to get work somewhere else but in the meantime if i have my great savings and a life experience ahead of me i am tempted to go for it. Honestly, if this 9-5 grind is something im supposed to give into and get used to i doubt i will do it and instead will find another way to live. 

i am going in two weeks to checkout a boat in kingston NY: A 28' Columbia sail boat. 1967 Columbia 28 with atomic 4 engine, roller reefing, many extras, ready for the water. The guy is asking for only 1,000$ and gave me this information:
crane launch. bought it from marina, hideaway marina purchased it from. 1000$ 

atomic 4 inboard. wind gauge, compass, radio. pretty good condition. V birth, head on left, counter space, set T on the other side of the head. galley area. New lines on it. standing rigging seems fine running rigging needs to be replaced. Motor running as far as he knows but purchased in winter so never seen it run. Boat was abandoned when he bought it and got it from the marina. fully paid for. 
the head does not have a storage container.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Ryan,
So you are going to go look at the older Columbia 28' that is bargain priced. My Tartan 27' is from 1967 which we bought 7 years ago for $4K with a working A4 engine. I know some things about boats of this age and era.
You might get lucky with this boat but chances are it has been neglected and the boat yard just wants it gone - hence the price. 
Things to watch out for.
Boats of this era usually had plywood coring in the decks. If any water gets into the plywood it will first get spongy and then turn to mush. If there is any give in the decking it will need to be re-cored - a big job.
Chain plates. These may have been glassed in, also with some wood core. If you see any moisture or evidence of 'weeping' (discoloration) around the interior chain plates they likely are not up to a whole lot of pounding on the ocean before they pull up or fail. This will happen at the worst possible moment of course. I would go out on the ocean with a few spongy deck spots but not with compromised chain plates.
Atomic 4. Much derided by some. It is a tractor engine and as such is hard to kill. If it is really badly rusted or sitting in a lot of water - that is not good. If there is some paint still on the engine - that is good. A4 engines that have been underwater have been revived. Prepare to learn a lot about simple combustion engines if you get a boat with the 'Atomic Bomb(4)'.
The rest is pretty obvious: blisters, big/long cracks in keel, excessive play in prop shaft/rudder. I was looking for SailingDog's boat inspection tips but could not find the 'sticky'.

I assume you mean that the 'head' has no holding tank plumbed to it? You would need to install one for the areas you intend to go to - not a terrible job. Been there, done that.

Don't let the price blow smoke up your shorts!


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

ryanjenkins said:


> ..... is being trailerable really that huge of a deal? ...


Ryan,

YES!!! .......... or ............ NO!!! ........... Like all the other characteristics and capabilities of a sailboat, the importance of its trailerability depends on how you're most likely going to be using it. You see, there are trade offs on nearly choice you make with a boat and the key is to identify which characteristics are most favorable for your needs. You, for example, as a live aboard will be willing to give up some performance for living space. Someone who is racing would likely have much different priorities. Even with trailerables there are different levels, ranging from those that are easily launched from a ramp and easily towed to those that need a lift to launch and require a pretty stout rig to tow them. I do my sailing on mountain lakes here in Oregon that only have ramps and we have to pull our boats at the end of the season. Therefore, it is important to me that my boat is relatively easy to launch from a ramp even though we often leave the boat in the water for an entire season. A couple of the more useful advantages to this capability is being able to haul out quickly yourself if you have to and of course, the portability of being able to tow the boat to different locales either because they are land locked or you just don't want to sail to the destination. According to your stated plans, that second option doesn't seem that important, but it is an alternate way to do kind of what you are doing. In other words, you could sail in NY for a while and then pack her up and tow her to ME to sail there. But that's the type of decision only you can make. From your description of how you want to use a boat, towability and trailerability wouldn't seem to be a huge deal for you, except maybe to be able to haul her once a year to take advantage of less expensive storage. And any advantage of trailerability and launchability are going to be lost, after all, if you are sailing in Maine and your trailer is sitting in New York. I still stand by my earlier advice to not be in a huge hurry to purchase a boat if you can gain some sailing experience without doing so. Plans and priorities have a way of changing, especially at the beginning of the learning curve. Good luck and have fun with your adventure Ryan.


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

just checked out those san juan 21's but have not been able to find any interior photos. the way the hull is shped makes me think they have some semi decent room inside of them and are trailerable. 

sadly, closest one for sail to me is 4 hours away.


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

Ryan,

Try San Juan 21 Sailboat Photo Gallery Looks like an older listing so these boats may not still be for sale, but seems to have lots of pictures. I sailed on one once and it performed nicely but I wouldn't want to live on one ....... or take an extended cruise for that matter. But that is just me (with wife and dog  )


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

no wife for me, just me and the pooch. Right now i i am trying to analyze the whole trailer/non trailer situation and if that is something that is really that important for me right now. a whole lot of logistics coming to the surface that i haven't thought about really (guess that is par for the course tho eh?). I guess my main desire for a trailer is that i am recognizing my own inexperience in this field and the security of feeling like i can get the boat in and out of the water/stored on my own or with little help makes me feel good about it. Also, since the fee's when having the boat IN the water are so so so much higher at the marina it is nice to be able to pull the boat out if i predict i am not going to be using the boat for a few months or i know i am not going to be making the trip this season/discover problems. 



the 24 san juan looks trailerable and a bit more spacious and i really like it, not too many out on the water it looks like though and especially for sale. will keep my eyes open.


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

Ryan,

Like I said, there are different levels of trailable. Last summer I followed a young man with his family, towing a full keel 30 foot Catalina down I-5 with a 3/4 ton pickup. I was driving an 18 wheeler (you know how us truck drivers drive  ) and he was having no trouble keeping up with me and was handling it fine. I pulled in behind him at a rest area and asked some questions. He was towing it back to Southern Oregon from the San Juans (Northern Washington). That is roughly a 1000 mile round trip that he takes every year on vacation. They use a lift to launch and retrieve it. BTW, the largest sailboat I've been on that is trailerable and launchable from a ramp is the Seaward Eagle 32rk. SaWeeet. Now that one I could live on!!


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

OK ...this thread has just been to darn nice...

Your crazy Kid...it cant be done for that much money...save up and buy a real boat...50K at least... and your going to put your eye out!!


There I feel better now.....................................Carry on!


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

You will definitely skin a knuckle if you attempt that you are saying but you could also be killed by a bus on a cross walk. Many other people have bought cheap boats and gone to far places. It helps to have a few hundred thousand dollars saved up but is not an absolute requirement. 
"Go simple, go large?", but just go.


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

just letting you know all know i have not dissapeared.

I have decided to wait until the weather here stops being Ice/frigid and then start looking at boats. Ideally having boats able to get in the water to test the engines/test sail is ideal. 

I am still debating heavily between trailerable boats versus non trailerable boats. I know i will always have free storage in main if i got a trailerable boat... I just worry about the real safety factors of cruising up and down the coast in a smaller keel boat. Some people tell me it really isn't that huge of a deal, I just don't have the experience to make a personal judgement on it. 

I have found some smaller hunters in my price range as well as some other random boats. Right now i am looking a lot in the hudson valley area and specifically kingston NY because it seems like there is a pretty good sailing population there and is only an hour from me. 

I also enrolled for two different sailing clubs and will hopefully be out on the water quite a bit this spring/summer. Ideally, i can get out of here this summer. Is that feasible? i dunno... But i really am sick of this working life and every day just keeps putting another straw on my back. Perhaps moving away from here to an area with more readily available boats is a good first step? Try and move out somewhere to the cape or to maine for cheap and do whatever work i can until i find a good candidate boat.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Thanks for the update... Best of luck.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

ryanjenkins said:


> just letting you know all know i have not dissapeared.
> 
> I have decided to wait until the weather here stops being Ice/frigid and then start looking at boats. Ideally having boats able to get in the water to test the engines/test sail is ideal.
> 
> ...


How about some place warm? I keep hearing about all this ice the Easties and SuperNorthies have to live with and it breaks my heart.


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

the main issue is that i have a relatively good paying job for my field of study right now and would love to find a boat to work on/get my footing on in the albany/troy hudson area so that i can still work on building my savings as i prepare for my trip. 

Leaving my job and heading to say florida or other warm climates In hopes of finding a boat, a place to stay, etc... is a scary thought. Already leaving my life behind and jumping on a boat and sailing the coasts in itself is a quite the life change and the security blanket of my job and friends here is something i think would help me with the transition.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Buying in upstate New York makes a lot of sense. Lots of boats that have seen freshwater seasonal use, hauled and stored in winter. I argue that a thirty year old northern freshwater boat may be in better shape than a 15 year old saltwater boat.


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

sadly, so far the pickings are slim. I have found some good candidates but nothing i can really look at right now due to the weather. I am worried about in-boards not working/leaks/etc when i can't get the boat down into the water.

anyone have any opinions on a 24ft. hunter for the type of trip i am looking to make? really my biggest concern is if the boat itself can handle hugging the east coast from ny to maine to florida. I have no way of really judging how deep or how big a keel needs to be in order for it to be a comfortable and safe voyage. all i know is that bigger is probably better. 

the bonus is that if i can get a boat with a trailer i can almost always find free winter/summer storage if i need it... which is huge.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

If the boat comes with a cradle you can always haul it with a flatbed trailer. Find the best boat you can find within your budget, and worry about trailers and storage later. Otherwise, you may ignore some very good prospects.
A 24 ft Hunter is, in my opinion, too small. A Tanzer in that size range would be a better choice for living aboard.

This one may be a real bargain:
24' Tanzer 7.5 | Sailboats for Sale | Toronto Yacht Sales

If it was me, and I was going to be living aboard with my dog, I would look at at least 27 feet, and the first thing I would spend my boat bucks on, after all necessary seaworthiness issues are addressed, would be a full cockpit enclosure.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

A big problem I see with that boat is the fact that it uses an electric trolling motor. *This means that you are more than likely going to end up in a situation where you need to motor but the batteries are dead...and have no way of recharging them to power the motor. That's a really bad idea. *

You really need a boat that has at least a gasoline-powered outboard at a minimum. An electric trolling motor, especially given your plans, isn't going to cut it.

Also, the owner is going to overlook any of the shortcomings of the boat when he is trying to sell it. If you haven't read the *Boat Inspection Trip Tips *thread I wrote, I would highly recommend you do so.

I'd also recommend you get John Vigor's book, 20 Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere...and read it. The O'Day 22 isn't on that list and that's for a good reason. The O'Day 22 is a fairly lightly built daysailor and not really suitable for ocean conditions, even limited coastal IMHO.

If you got this boat, it would make more sense to trailer it down to Florida, than to sail it there. That's also be a lot faster and probably safer.



ryanjenkins said:


> Update:
> 
> i posted this over in the boat reviews forum too hoping for some different responses than just the cruiser crowd:
> 
> ...


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

thanks, once i did more research i ruled out the 22 entirely. Right now i am looking mainly for catalinas, albin vegas, cape dory's, and bristol's. 

Still even though i am not looking to buy until spring, I am finding little to nothing around my area and it is looking like if this is something i really want to do i might have to give up my upstate NY comfort blanket and head somewhere else in order to get the right kind of boat i will need. Then i will have to learn to sail it and fix everything that is broken on it by myself with little cash to spare... eep? 

we will see what spring brings... hopefully i can find something in kingston that looks like a possibility and if so can move out of my apartment, sail it up to Troy and dock it here for the summer and continue working while i practice sailing around.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Here's your Boat right here! Go to Florida man!

"Contest 27" Rugged North Sea Sloop

or

1960 Morgan carribean sun hull

27 ft Hunter SAILBOAT for sale


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The Southern Cross and Elizabethan lines might also be good ones to look at.


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## johnnyandjebus (Sep 15, 2009)

Ryan

Check out the forum on 
The Contessa Corner - A site for Contessa owners, sailors and dreamers.

There are a variety of contessa 26's for sale. She may be a bit small for a true live aboard but she will handle the rough weather down the road. Just another option for you.

John


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*28' Columbia C-28*

Pay a $5.000 more and get a boat like this it will take you pretty near anywhere you want to go. 1969 Columbia C-28 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## Mc51 (Mar 10, 2007)

*Cal25*

I've been off the net a few weeks and just read this thread. In your first post you mentioned maybe a CAL25. If it were just me and a dog I think I could live on mine CAL25. There isn't a lot of headroom below deck, but I could deal with it. I fact I am considering a career change and am strictly looking at jobs on the west cost of Florida from here in Pensacola down to Key West. If I find the one I'm looking for I while definitely live aboard. I am looking at converting the companionway hatch from sliding to pop top. The pay off on the CAL25 is the whole deck is flat and roomy. I've had up to eight people forward of the cockpit at times. I bought mine on eBay for $1275 in 2007. I won't go into how I bought a boat that was sitting in San Francisco Bay when I live in Florida. Having it shipped to me would have cost five times the price that I paid for the boat so I bought a used power boat trailer and converted it to haul my boat. We went out to CA and pulled it back behind a Ford Expedition. We had to grind our way up a few mountain passes but other that that it pulled it with no problems. It was kind of scary pulling the boat for the first time 2500 miles. I checked everyone of my welds on the trailer every stop. As far as a CAL25 handling the eastern seaboard I think it would do okay. I've read a few posts from guy out in Hawaii that sails his in the Pacific. My boat has an antique outboard on it that moves it just fine. One time it wouldn't crank so we attempted to get out of a cove with 35kt headwinds using two 34 pound thrust trolling motors without any success they would move it forward into the wind but if I got sidways to the wind I lost all control. Read my BFS post for more on that. I think it is either post# 999 or 1000. I would like to covert my boat to a hybrid there are some real high power trolling motors that would do the job, but they cost almost as much as a new outboard. A good generator and battery chargers should be able to keep the batteries topped off if we run on the motor for extended time. We have come and gone from the marina a few times on the trolling motor and it feels good to go sailing without any gasoline or diesel being evolved.


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

thanks for the cal25 input! It is still up there as a possibility. 

I think i am planning on really really analyzing and deciding if this is going to be the decision for me or not (to liveaboard and get to seas for awhile). If so, I might move this spring to my fathers beach house up in Wells, ME and try and find a boat up there near penobscot, kennebunk, freeport, and york. There seems to be a few marinas there/sailboat rescues that i could possibly get some work at and learn the ropes and earn my way towards a boat. 

I also have the storage up in Maine if i get a boat before i am ready to launch.


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