# Can I use arborist rope for halyards and sheets?



## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

I have the opportunity to buy new arborist rope at a good price. It is double braided polyester rope made by a reputable company (New England) with a sufficient breaking strength (5000 lb for 1/2" rope). And, of course, arborist rope is static, it is not dynamic rope for climbers.

Is there any reason I could not use this for halyards? And maybe the 5/8" version for sheets? This is for a 32' boat, coastal sailing. And I am obviously not a racer...

Thanks


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

If the arborist rope is dacron polyester double braid and is constructed for _low stretch_, then yes.

If the arborist rope is nylon double braid (similar or equivalent to mountain climbers 'kernmantle') then it will be too 'stretchy' for use for halyards, etc. Arborists usually use a nylon kernmantle braid which is stretchy so that impact is lessened *when* they FALL. The arborists version of kernmantle usually has an extra-thickly woven outer cover for added abrasion resistance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_rope


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## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

Spend your money on the right stuff; your wasting your time and will not save money or time!...Dale


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

I have tried some on our Prindle Cat and it seemed to get stiffer every time we used it. it did not run through the blocks well and got twisted easily. halyards on a 32' boat do not need to be 1/2" if you use some of the new marine rope available. whats a good price? all that is needed is 5/16'" and marine halyard rope that size will have a breaking strength of well over 5000 lbs. 5/8" for sheets is also a bit large. I know it will be easier on the hands but can your winches and cleats handle that size line.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

RichH said:


> ....nylon kernmantle braid


Just for information, "Kernmantel" is just the German word for double-braid and is also used for lines on a boat.


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## jwing (Jun 20, 2013)

There is no such thing as "arborist rope." Check the New England Ropes website. Under the Arborist tab, you'll see multiple categories, each with multiple rope choices. Some of those ropes, such as STA_SET and Endura, are listed in the Marine rope section, too. An arborist would be a fool to use those lines for self-protection, and New England does not recommend that they do. New England does sell dynamic rope for arbor work.

My boat came equipped with over-sized lines. The halyards were too big to make a proper cleat hitch on the installed cleats. The jib sheets were too big for their camcleats, resulting in difficulty in setting them and random releases. I downsized the lines and now everything is more pleasant and secure. Proper line is not so expensive, if you don't get into the high end racing rope.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

RichH said:


> If the arborist rope is dacron polyester double braid and is constructed for _low stretch_, then yes.
> 
> If the arborist rope is nylon double braid (similar or equivalent to mountain climbers 'kernmantle') then it will be too 'stretchy' for use for halyards, etc. Arborists usually use a nylon kernmantle braid which is stretchy so that impact is lessened *when* they FALL. The arborists version of kernmantle usually has an extra-thickly woven outer cover for added abrasion resistance.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_rope


It is polyester, not nylon.

I know even less about tree-climbing than about sailing but I read that 'arborist rope' is typically static, not dynamic rope. Reason is that they actually climb the rope which is something you don't want to do on a dynamic rope (much of your energy is wasted).

FWIW, the rope I am looking at is this one ::*Teufelberger:*Braided Safety Blue ®

The specs say it has 3.5% elongation at 50-150Kg. I don't really know how that compares to 'marine' rope. The el-cheapo West Marine double braid says "Average Stretch
2 to 4%" SEAFIT Economy Polyester Double Braid | West Marine


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

overbored said:


> I have tried some on our Prindle Cat and it seemed to get stiffer every time we used it. it did not run through the blocks well and got twisted easily. halyards on a 32' boat do not need to be 1/2" if you use some of the new marine rope available. whats a good price? all that is needed is 5/16'" and marine halyard rope that size will have a breaking strength of well over 5000 lbs. 5/8" for sheets is also a bit large. I know it will be easier on the hands but can your winches and cleats handle that size line.


The long-term characteristics is really useful first-hand information. Hm. Have to ponder that.

I know that I could easily get away with a thinner rope for the halyards but I currently have 1/2" and like it. If the cost is low, why have the rope cut in my hands?

Good point also on the too-thick material for sheets. My current sheets actually ARE too thick, and it is a bit of a pain to get them into the blocks in the first place. After that, they are a pleasure to use. I _believe_ that I currently have 3/4" but your post reminded me that I should measure the diameter before potentially ordering ANOTHER too big rope...


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

jwing said:


> There is no such thing as "arborist rope." Check the New England Ropes website. Under the Arborist tab, you'll see multiple categories, each with multiple rope choices. Some of those ropes, such as STA_SET and Endura, are listed in the Marine rope section, too. An arborist would be a fool to use those lines for self-protection, and New England does not recommend that they do. New England does sell dynamic rope for arbor work.
> 
> My boat came equipped with over-sized lines. The halyards were too big to make a proper cleat hitch on the installed cleats. The jib sheets were too big for their camcleats, resulting in difficulty in setting them and random releases. I downsized the lines and now everything is more pleasant and secure. Proper line is not so expensive, if you don't get into the high end racing rope.


All good points. I looked at the New England Ropes arborist site, it is this one, right?::*Teufelberger:*Arboriculture
The rope I am looking at is this ::*Teufelberger:*Braided Safety Blue ®

Stretch is given as 3.5% for 50-150Kg so I suppose this is static line, right?

I have currently 1/2" halyards and they are a perfect fit for winches and cleats.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Why wouldn't you just buy rope that's fit for purpose? You CAN use virtually any rope for sheets. But why would you?


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

smackdaddy said:


> Why wouldn't you just buy rope that's fit for purpose? You CAN use virtually any rope for sheets. But why would you?


$$$

Cost is about 1/4 of the cheapest comparable rope (by specs; see the links in my earlier posts) from West Marine. Of course WM is not exactly a discounter but the difference is huge. That makes a difference when you are talking a few hundred feet of rope.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

that's climbing rope 3.5% at a very light load( the weight of a person ) is telling you that it is very stretchy line good if you fall the line will give. likely 10% at 30% breaking strength 
good halyard line would be less than 1% at 30% of breaking strength. 
Climbing rope is also not so good for withstanding UV and salt


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

if one is looking at the dollars then you don't use prices from Worst marine and you don't over size the line just because bigger seems better and it is what you all ready have . the new line is much stronger now and can be sized smaller then in years past. compare the climbing rope to the line that you application needs. 32' cruising boat with 3/8" Sta set would be common and about $ 0.85 a foot. if you really want 1/2" its about $ 1.50 a foot


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

I bought 12mm (1/2 inch) double braid for a main hallyard. Its breaking load is 3700kgs which is 8,000 pounds. So if you're is rated 5,000pounds its , obviously, a bit less, or cheaper.
One many things: 1 product sold to at a marine store is $$$$... the same product sold inland to poor farmers is $.

Search and research well and you can save a bucket of money.

Beware those who tell you there is only one right way. "Do it properly or you will reget it" is total BS. I say: do it in a safe, affordable way. So a 30 foot cruising boat does NOT need 8,000 pound breaking load line. You could lift your whole boat up and twirl it! Also a halyard need not be zero stretch. You hoist the main. When the wind hits 20 u wind it up another 3 inches. Where's the problem?


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## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

I think you should go of it ! Then come back and let us know how it worked out. Smart men learn from their mistakes..Wise men learn from others mistakes......Dale


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Though I have found cheaper prices here and there, these guys are among the best all-round value I've found...

Cajunrope.com - Home


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

I hope you try using some of that arborist rope in a marine setting as a test to see how it works and holds up. 
Can you use some for sheets and to secure your fenders and report back to us on how it does?

Everything made for marine applications seems ridiculously over priced. I understand that it has to be corrosion resistant in salt water environments, but some of the prices are crazy.

I think that you could take Walmart bottled water and re-label it "Sailor's Agua: (Specifically formulated for marine environments)" and sell it in marina stores for $7 a bottle.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

midwesterner said:


> I hope you try using some of that arborist rope in a marine setting as a test to see how it works and holds up.
> Can you use some for sheets and to secure your fenders and report back to us on how it does?
> 
> Everything made for marine applications seems ridiculously over priced. I understand that it has to be corrosion resistant in salt water environments, but some of the prices are crazy.
> ...


It does happen of course, but the good 'marine' products are fundamentally different products. Everything from material selection to design is different on marine products, all to meet a very small market with very slow turnover. As a former marine supplier I can promise you our profit margin on marine stuff was pretty much exactly the same as it was for non marine gear, but the costs were higher.

As for this rope... There is zero need for 1/2 rope on a boat this size, the stretch is all kinds of terrible, and the strength is far lower than it should be at this size. Yes you can use it, no you shouldn't.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

Lake Superior Sailor said:


> I think you should go of it ! Then come back and let us know how it worked out. Smart men learn from their mistakes..Wise men learn from others mistakes......Dale


...and inventors and explorers learn from lots of their own mistakes.


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## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

Sure that's why they get someone else to support them...Politics are the same!....Dale


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> All good points. I looked at the New England Ropes arborist site, it is this one, right?::*Teufelberger:*Arboriculture
> The rope I am looking at is this ::*Teufelberger:*Braided Safety Blue ®
> 
> Stretch is given as 3.5% for 50-150Kg so I suppose this is static line, right?
> ...


The description says polyester cover and POLAMIDE core. That probably means nylon. And the breaking strength is far below even inexpensive double braid. Stretch is high for that load. I would stay away even for sheets. And would be AWFUL for halyards.


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## sailordave (Jun 26, 2001)

I don't know the technical aspects of Arborist rope but unless it has similar strength/stretch characteristics to say, NER Sta-set in the same size I'd stay away from it. If you shop around (and in the offseason) you can find some good prices on Sta-Set and on Regatta braid. The other thing to consider is how it FEELS in your hand. 
Personally, I'd use line that was designed for a marine application. I suspect that climbing rope of any kind has different properties.

For your halyard you could get 5/16" VPC from Defender. On sale right now for 1.01/ft. 5500lb avg. load
Or 3/8" Sta-Set for a little more but slightly less strength and a little more stretch.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I'll take a smaller diam dyneema based rope, same strength, less stretch than a sta-set. Many times there is not much difference, if saying comparing 1/2" sta-set to a 3/8" dyneema cored line. With 1/4 the stretch. So when the wind pipes up, you do not have to haul in the main or jib halyard 3". maybe an inch if at all! Same with the sheets, a gust gives you speed, no heel to less heel, because the line does not stretch as much, taking the shape out of the sail. 
Along with, on light wind days, the smaller diam line allows the clew to fly a bit because the wt of the bigger diam line is not holding it down, so you can get better shape out of the sail, to sail in light winds vs turning on the iron genny, or drifting backwards.......

My 02 on the subject, not that one paid for this!

marty


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

the climbing rope ( Arborist rope ) with a 3.5% stretch at 300 lbs will be more like 20" that you will have to haul up when the wind pipes up. 
I use 5/16" Warpspeed with the cover striped on about half of the line. the 1/4" dyneema core is good for 6200 lbs way more then is needed for a halyard on a 32' boat. the boat came with 7/16" line and it added a lot of weight and friction when hoisting the sail, the smaller line makes it very easy to hoist.


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## JamesGrant0 (May 23, 2016)

I think you can use arborist rope for halyards and sheets.


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## Windward Star (Jul 26, 2015)

As a former arborist, and rock climber, I would not suggest you use climbing line for your sailboat. While the Tru-Blue or Safety-Blue are a low stretch line(compared to rock climbing rope) there is still significant stretch. I do use my tree climbing gear, including my New Engand Rope High-vis Safety-Blue rope, to access the top of my mast. I'd use old lines as dock lines and in a pinch as anchor rode but would not even consider using it for a halyard or sheets.


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## Daveinet (Jun 10, 2010)

OK, I buy cheap rope from Menards and use it on my boat. 90% of the time, it works just fine, HOWEVER one thing I discovered is that in 30 mph winds, the load on my jib sheet is high enough that the rope becomes thin. This means it does not hold its dimensions when squeezed through the jam cleats. SO you have a 1/2 inch line that under extreme load is only 1/4 inch thickness. It still held, but was a little sketchy. At 20 to 25 mph winds, it was just fine. So it really depends on what you sail in and how often.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Daveinet said:


> OK, I buy cheap rope from Menards and use it on my boat. 90% of the time, it works just fine, HOWEVER one thing I discovered is that in 30 mph winds, the load on my jib sheet is high enough that the rope becomes thin. This means it does not hold its dimensions when squeezed through the jam cleats. SO you have a 1/2 inch line that under extreme load is only 1/4 inch thickness. It still held, but was a little sketchy. At 20 to 25 mph winds, it was just fine. So it really depends on what you sail in and how often.


!!!!! That's downright scary.


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## Tanski (May 28, 2015)

I know somebody who goes to the hardware store and buys the cheap white nylon 3 strand stuff.
Then again they haven't done an oil change since they bought the boat 10 years ago.....
Won't even go into the missing lower stay!


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## Shockwave (Feb 4, 2014)

If the cost of buying the correct line is too expensive then the cost of buying the wrong line and later replacing it with the correct line will be doubly expensive. 3.5% stretch with a 50kg load is 21 inches on a 50 foot halyard.


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## Daveinet (Jun 10, 2010)

JimsCAL said:


> !!!!! That's downright scary.


It makes a great anchor line though...

But seriously, I was well within the breakage rating. Its really a problem with the weave. On the cheap rope, the core is unwoven. Only the outside layer is woven, so when it is pulled super tight, it looses its shape, even though it is not close to breaking. I would suggest that that if the rope was twisted, it would not have this characteristic.

A quick search on rope shows there are a couple of different types of braided rope. The least expensive does not have a core, or the core is not woven. It cost much more to have a woven core, or what is called braid on braid. I would suggest that twisted rope would work just fine for halyards, as you are not handling it often, an would not care about the rough surface. If you can find braided jacket with twisted core, that should work just fine as well. Its only the rope with an unwoven core that is going to change its shape under load. If the line is going to be looped around a cleat, you don't care what the core is, only the break strength. If you need to run it through a cam cleat, then the core matters - and even then, only under extreme conditions. If the rope is well oversized for the task, it would not loose its dimensional integrity anyway.

I would suggest you can use what ever rope you want, but just need to pay attention to how it is woven, compared to the task it is required to perform. Just because you bought it from a Marine store only means they have done the homework for you. However, if you pay attention to what you are buying, it matters not where you buy it.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

smackdaddy said:


> Though I have found cheaper prices here and there, these guys are among the best all-round value I've found...
> 
> Cajunrope.com - Home


Thanks, Smack. I know of them and they seem to be good folks with a good product. I remember I seriously considered them last time i bought new halyard more than a decade ago. That they are still around shows speaks for them.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

Shockwave said:


> If the cost of buying the correct line is too expensive then the cost of buying the wrong line and later replacing it with the correct line will be doubly expensive. 3.5% stretch with a 50kg load is 21 inches on a 50 foot halyard.


OP here, again. Will try to summarize.

Thanks to ALL for your insights. I have learned a lot from this thread and it helps me to make a better decision. I also did some amount of additional googling. One well-written analysis is by Beth Leonhard and Evans Starzinger. It may be of interest to some others, so here is the link: http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/rightlinejob.pdf

You have convinced me that using this arborist rope for my main/jib halyards would not be a good idea. However, I will still buy a couple hundred feet for other purposes:

One is for a spi halyard. As Beth and Evans point out, some stretch on that is even advantageous, to deal with shock loads. The same applies to the mainsheet and the traveller lines (although I obviously won't need 100' for this purpose).

Another application I have is for a spare halyard. Last time I had the stick down I installed a block at the mast top as a spare, just in case. I have never used it and I may never need it, but boy would I be glad to have it if I did. In such a case, I doubt that I would worry about a couple inches of stretch in the line.

What I don't know is whether this line will prematurely degrade with exposure to salt (not so much an issue here on the upper Chessie) and UV. This is a risk I will take.

So, that's my plan. I will scratch the idea of using it for jib sheets or main/jib halyards but there seem to be viable applications. And I will save a sizable fraction of a boot buck doing so.

Again, thanks for the informative discussion!


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## Zarathu (May 26, 2014)

Get 10 feet more than you think you'll need. Its easy to cut it, impossible to add it. And yes you can never have too much line. I have a bunch of polyester lobster line, simply for that reason.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

Zarathu said:


> Get 10 feet more than you think you'll need. Its easy to cut it, impossible to add it. And yes you can never have too much line. I have a bunch of polyester lobster line, simply for that reason.


Good thought, and already taken care of  The line comes in hanks of 100' and for my halyards I need about 80+, so there is a built-in safety factor.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Zanshin said:


> Just for information, "Kernmantel" is just the German word for double-braid and is also used for lines on a boat.


Incorrect. Kernmatle as used by climbers has a laid interior with 50% LH and 50% RH cords. Very different.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

OP,

I did not read article. BUT, some places it is good to have stretch, others not. Halyards and sheets "GENERALLY" speaking, do not want stretch. As this will bag out a sail, cause it to not be the shape you want, which leads to more heeling, slowing down etc. Less stretch keeps the sail in shape, which in turn with gusts causes LESS heeling and speed loss. A stretch line for a Main boom lift/holder is not a big deal. I would not want a stretchy line as I pointed out a few posts back, for any kind of running rigging. Anchors, dock lines, mountain climbing etc.....no big. I use my older climbing line to go up the mast. But would not use it for running rigging etc. UNLESS, offshore, only way back a day or three or more later, then use what you have! 


marty


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## oysterman23 (Jul 22, 2011)

i rigged my halyards with samson xls extra T and they were worth the cost for my cruising boat. But I put an extra halyard in using New England ropes Sta-set and had it rigged with my jib the other day. There was no question the extra T had less stretch. To keep my jib flat in blustery conditions it was necessary to load up the halyard quite a bit more than when using the extra T. Im sure if I had any warpspeed on the boat Id notice that improvement in similar conditions. But Ive sailed plenty on boats rigged with dacron three strand and it used to get us where we needed to go....But you bet the new lines are better. I still prefer nylon strand or braid for docklines and springs (eases shock on the cleats etc) and like dyneema for my outhall and a few other spots where minimal stretch and slender strength is helpful. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

The only place where I think stretch is a good thing would be dock/anchor lines. It has no place in halyards or sheets at all. 

Nothing worse then a gust hitting the sails and the extra load stretched the lines, causing the boat to now be overpowered from the deeper draft sails that you have been trying to trim out. 


Sure stretchy line will work, but as a severe compromise.


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## Peter06420 (May 14, 2006)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> I have the opportunity to buy new arborist rope at a good price. It is double braided polyester rope made by a reputable company (New England) with a sufficient breaking strength (5000 lb for 1/2" rope). And, of course, arborist rope is static, it is not dynamic rope for climbers.
> 
> Is there any reason I could not use this for halyards? And maybe the 5/8" version for sheets? This is for a 32' boat, coastal sailing. And I am obviously not a racer...
> 
> Thanks


Truly, it does not matter whether you are a racer or not. Use the right stretch and strength for the right purpose. That arborist line looks too stretchy.

If, rather, _when_ you get caught in a blow and have to de-power your sail, a stretchy halyard will ruin your day. The sail (main or jib) will power up in a puff and you can get knocked down.

On the other hand, if your mast bend does not automatically depower your main, you may want a little stretch in the boom vang (kicker) to allow twist in a puff.

Also, 1/2 inch is a bit on the large side, your blocks and clutches may not accept that and will cause you trouble.

As a point of reference, West marine has 3/8" Sta-set line with a 5100 pound breaking strength, and 10100 pound at 1/2". That line is listed with an average stretch of 1 to 2%. This means that at full hoist, the halyard might stretch 6 to 12 inches. If reefed, it will stretch further (you have more halyard running up & then back down the mast) You should think about a more high-performance ultra-low stretch line for the halyard even for inshore sailing. I've been caught in a weather change too many times.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Stumble said:


> The only place where I think stretch is a good thing would be dock/anchor lines. It has no place in halyards or sheets at all.
> 
> Nothing worse then a gust hitting the sails and the extra load stretched the lines, causing the boat to now be overpowered from the deeper draft sails that you have been trying to trim out.
> 
> Sure stretchy line will work, but as a severe compromise.


Actually, nylon is good for travelers. Soft jibes.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

pdqaltair said:


> Actually, nylon is good for travelers. Soft jibes.


I know the theory I just don't agree with it. For traveler lines I would much rather have a line with a good hand that doesn't hockle instead, something that doesn't absorb water is just a nice bonus.


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## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

Cajun Ropes has come up several times in this thread -- Their XLE is a bargain, though I found it a bit stretchy for halyards when the wind came up. Fine for sheets. I replaced my Cajun Ropes XLE halyards with NERopes VPC. You can find some good deals on Ebay -- try Milwaukee Rigging on ebay, or check Annapolis Performance Sailing (Sailing Gear: Clothing, Equipment, Hardware, Line, Sailboat Parts | APS) - APS has a sale section with great deals on cut lengths of line. Even if they are a bit longer than what you need, you can save a ton of money. APS also has a running rigging sale in the off season if you need to wait. If you're not racing, you're probably okay with NERopes' StaSet (note... Sta-SetX is different -- parallel core, I believe, and gets not so great reviews).


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## Daveinet (Jun 10, 2010)

I would suggest that if you have a non-stretch boom vang, a stretchy rope will work very well on the main sheet or traveler. There are times when I use a bungee cord on my travel to keep a constant load on the sail. When the wind picks up, the traveler automatically adjusts for the change in apparent wind. Works like a charm for passive sailing. Although I would suggest that the amount of stretch you will see with a stretch rope only affects shock at the short lengths we use them at.


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## ultraclyde (Jun 4, 2014)

Another good source for line is riggingandhardware.com Good selection, good prices, good service. Based out of New England.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Stumble said:


> I know the theory I just don't agree with it. For traveler lines I would much rather have a line with a good hand that doesn't hockle instead, something that doesn't absorb water is just a nice bonus.


Stumble, you just described climbing dynamic rope. Though it varies, a good dry-treated climbing rope is the best handling, non-absorbent line money can buy.

And it is not a theory. Quite a few cruisers have done this for many years. I've used 8mm ice climbing rope for several years; little stretch under normal static loads, but a few inches of give with an impact. I use polyester or Dyneema for all of the other running rigging, for the usual reasons. Only the traveler is nylon, and a very specific nylon rope at that. I got the idea after using Dyneema. It was horrible. Then I read that experienced people were using climbing rope for travelers, tried it, and loved it. Much better handling.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

PDQ,

Like I said I understand what you are saying I just think it is an attempt to getaway with using bad technique by designing the gear to match. When jibing in high winds you should use the sheet to control the boom speed not rely on the traveler line to absorb the impact. So sheet in, turn the boat, sheet out. If done properly there is no slamming, and no need for a shock absorbing line. 

But I am also not an advocate of dyneema for traveler lines. The loads are too small to justify a high strength line even when controlling for stretch it's simply not needed. So you select for hockles and hand. My new favorite for it is a line called Tenex which is a single braid polyester, so it feels a lot like a dyneema line, but without the slickness.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Stumble said:


> PDQ,
> 
> Like I said I understand what you are saying I just think it is an attempt to getaway with using bad technique by designing the gear to match. When jibing in high winds you should use the sheet to control the boom speed not rely on the traveler line to absorb the impact. So sheet in, turn the boat, sheet out. If done properly there is no slamming, and no need for a shock absorbing line.
> 
> But I am also not an advocate of dyneema for traveler lines. The loads are too small to justify a high strength line even when controlling for stretch it's simply not needed. So you select for hockles and hand. My new favorite for it is a line called Tenex which is a single braid polyester, so it feels a lot like a dyneema line, but without the slickness.


Obviously. But that is rather like saying good drivers don't need seat belts. I got the idea form a circumnavigator with impeccable technique.

Just don't knock it until you have tried it. You might just like it. The Dyneema, for example, was free and I was curious.

I have a personal dislike of single braids. It's just a tactile thing, without reason, I'm sure. I just dislike the "hand." Funny.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

what is the specific line you are using for the traveler. there are many types of climbing rope and will never need to know how you use the different types unless it is for a traveler. I am about to change mine and was going to use 8mm NE Salsa braid. I find it runs through the blocks much better then the double braid


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Overboard, 

Like I said I would suggest Tenex TEC, it's a 12 strand single braid polyester line. It's pretty much the same braid as amsteel, but a different material. So it's dead easy to splice, and has about the same stretch/strength as sta-set. I use it a lot in place of salsa where you don't need the strength or stretch characteristics.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

Stumble. thanks You are on to something. cheap enough to experiment. does it run true to size. I have Samson Control DPX on the main sheet and it measures way bigger then the spec. size 3/8" is more like 1/2" when not under load but 3/8" when loaded.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

Stumble said:


> Overboard,
> 
> Like I said I would suggest Tenex TEC, it's a 12 strand single braid polyester line. It's pretty much the same braid as amsteel, but a different material. So it's dead easy to splice, and has about the same stretch/strength as sta-set. I use it a lot in place of salsa where you don't need the strength or stretch characteristics.


Hm, I know you don't believe that flexibility is a good thing in travellers. I happen to not agree with you on that (following PDQ, Leonard/Starzinger etc). Everybody should form their own opinion but for those interested, this line is definitely NOT dynamic: "Tenex-TEC is a high-strength, low-stretch rope" Product


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

overbored said:


> Stumble. thanks You are on to something. cheap enough to experiment. does it run true to size. I have Samson Control DPX on the main sheet and it measures way bigger then the spec. size 3/8" is more like 1/2" when not under load but 3/8" when loaded.


It's so soft that the weave will open from just pushing on it, but it falls closed equally easy. I use 10mm with blocks rated to a maximum size of 10mm and haven't noticed any issues.

The very soft weave makes it ideal for splicing practice as well. Burying is trivially easy.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

overbored said:


> Stumble. thanks You are on to something. cheap enough to experiment. does it run true to size. I have Samson Control DPX on the main sheet and it measures way bigger then the spec. size 3/8" is more like 1/2" when not under load but 3/8" when loaded.


By standard, diameter is measured under light load. For most ropes this makes little difference, but it can be material on single braids. Same with length.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Overboard,

One thing to look out for is that many lines swell over time. Polyester double braids have a particularly bad habit of this. Your line likely was 3/8 when new but has deformed since then. This is indicative of a line past its use by date.


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

Stumble said:


> Overboard,
> 
> One thing to look out for is that many lines swell over time. Polyester double braids have a particularly bad habit of this. Your line likely was 3/8 when new but has deformed since then. This is indicative of a line past its use by date.


Not disagreeing, but overboard is right about the DPX. I have it for ,y mainsheet and I'm replacing it because it's too big. I got 1/2 but it's more like 5/8". It's just the nature of that line.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

The current traveler line is 8mm line and came with the boat so not old but worn out double braid. the blocks are harken 29mm and max line size is 8mm, I looked for the Tenex in 8mm and it is made but does not seem to be stocked by anyone, 10mm is the smallest most sell. I was going to just change the line but I will have look closer at the system and see if I can fit 40 mm blocks to use 10mm line. the traveler uses 70' of line.


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## Daveinet (Jun 10, 2010)

If the rope changes size under load, it is because the core is not braided. Same as what I buy from Menards. Its cheaper because it is easier to make. As long as it functions for what you need it for, its fine, but one just needs to be wise in what they expect out of it.


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## Daveinet (Jun 10, 2010)

RATS, Just broke the boat out of the back yard. Squires ate through both halyards. They also ate through a bumper and filled it with leaves. I've never had problems with rodents before this past year. Looks like I'm in the market for some double braided rope.


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## SailRedemption (Jun 29, 2013)

overbored said:


> The current traveler line is 8mm line and came with the boat so not old but worn out double braid. the blocks are harken 29mm and max line size is 8mm, I looked for the Tenex in 8mm and it is made but does not seem to be stocked by anyone, 10mm is the smallest most sell. I was going to just change the line but I will have look closer at the system and see if I can fit 40 mm blocks to use 10mm line. the traveler uses 70' of line.


Samson MLX line is some nice stuff, fairly low stretch would be great for a mainsheet. Ill be using it for the traveler and/or mainsheet tweeker. I'm swapping out that DPX control line for something else, it just doesn't work well at all unless under a significant load enough to stretch the line and thin it out.


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