# How Do We Make a Living?



## 42ndstreet (Oct 15, 2004)

My wife and I have a goal of circumnavigating in 2012. We will be in our late 40's at the time of departure. We will have enough money to purchase and outfit a used 40' sailboat. Also, we should have enough money to make the first year in expenses. We like to live frugally, but also want to enjoy a restaurant now and then. My question is this:
What ways have you seen cruisers make additional money along the way?
Would it be better to make it from land jobs, or other cruisers? My wife is a RN with 25 yrs experience(good anywhere) and I am an insurance agent(not much good outside of NY). I am physically fit and speak alot of spanish(almost fluent). Also, very good with people. BTW-we do have a large amount of money in our 401k but will not touch it until age 60.
Thanks ahead of time.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

You don't say what your boat budget, or expected budget for the first year's expenses are listed at. Do you have any idea of what boat you're interested in getting?

Getting land jobs is somewhat fraught with danger, as many countries will have strict policies against it... and getting caught can be very serious. Do you have any mechanical or boat repair-related skills?? Those skills can often be worthwhile. Some computer skills, writing, photography, art, all are potential ways of making money abroad as well.


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## huguley3 (May 7, 2007)

I meant to ask this question as well. I currently work as a network manager which does not lend itself well to being out of the office. But at one time I was a programmer and that has at least the potential to be something that could be done on a boat disconnected or connected via a very slow link. Especially if it was programing something nautical like radars or something(I am grasping). 

Anyway are there any other computer types out there that have considered trying to code and cruise at the same time? I suppose if people can write you can code but I am just curious if anyone has actually done it and how practical it is.

Sorry if this is a thread hijacking.


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## lharmon (Jul 26, 2005)

Both you and your wife and hugley3 have specific knowledge that could be leveraged prior to heading out. You could put together an information product or training that generates dollars via limited marketing. You could have a product that helps consumers make better insurance choices or a training that helps agents generate or close more leads. 

The boomers are aging fast (aren't we?) and the market for health info is bigger than Buster Brown's market in the 60's. Do you think that a nurse with 25+ years experience has credibility? Most people trust nurses more than doctors. I'd buy her ebook on the right topic.

You could also divert your 401 contributions into investments for a few years that generate dollars NOW. You don't need to make a million from any of these. 2-3k per month and you should be able to extend your cruise as long as you want to. 

Hope this helps and good luck with your goals. Having the goal puts you way ahead of the pack.

LH

Oh and Huguley what about a piece on the 10 biggest pitfalls for network managers or the 5 biggest mistakes made with networks or something? You are probably geeky (compliment) enough to do a web based training thing. Don't work while you are out there, work now and let it work for you while you are gone. Compared to sailing, work sucks.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

I am currently a software engineer working from home. I can tell you that this is absolutely incompatible with cruising. And it's not what I would have expected previously - equipment is no issue (most of my work is done on a single laptop), neither is network (I don't need internet most of the time). 
However, one thing that is at premium is time. Stuff that people pay for requires 8-10 hours of actual work a day, 5 days a week. That does not leave much time for sailing, or doing anything else for that matter.

Working less than that a week would be paid accordingly, and working a few hours a week (which is what would be compatible with cruising) would likely not pay at all. Of course YMMV, as always.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Coding isn't really practical IMHO as a cruising profession. Web design can be... programming often needs far more face-to-face interaction between the programmer and client IMHO.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Coding isn't really practical IMHO as a cruising profession. Web design can be... programming often needs far more face-to-face interaction between the programmer and client IMHO.


In some cases it does, in others - less so. I speak with my client (employer?) at most twice a week on IM. It depends on what the product is. In systems development product objective could be pretty well defined early on, and everything else is essentially a direct derivation of that.

Honestly, this job would be perfect if only it took less than 70% of my waking hours


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

brak said:


> Honestly, this job would be perfect if only it took less than 70% of my waking hours


That leaves you a bit short of time for cruising, or doing boat maintenance.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> That leaves you a bit short of time for cruising, or doing boat maintenance.


No kidding. 

IMHO cruising and work are incompatible for most people except, perhaps, writers and an occasional high-demand-highly-paid professional (though hanging out in the islands wearing old T-shirt and sipping painkillers all day would reduce that demand pretty quickly, I think  )


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Brak:*


> perhaps, writers and an occasional high-demand-highly-paid professional (though hanging out in the islands wearing old T-shirt and sipping painkillers all day would reduce that demand pretty quickly, I thin


Careful, I resemble that remark. Actually, I wish the demand would subside some. Damn, I have to work an hour tomorrow after working an hour yesterday!! Where did today go? Don't have a clue.

Oh well, no rest for the weary.


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## huguley3 (May 7, 2007)

*coding*

I was thinking of programing for smaller devices like treos or other palm devices. I am still relatively young(35ish) so I have quite a bit of time to sort it all out. It is a good suggestion to create something that generates revenue mostly by itself and maybe needs a tweak here and there. I guess I need to come up with that killer app and stop playing world of warcraft. 

I had not really considered that you really only need 2k or so a month for general expenses and can cruise for a long time. I can't imagine living on 2k a month but with no car or house money would go farther. I am sure it finds a hole to get stuffed into no matter what. Thats how money works.

Thanks for the info!


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I would second the notion of work now, sail later. Utilize your shoreside productivity to the maximum. One way you can prepare to cruise sooner is to start paring down your lifestlyle. Sell the Beemer, cancel the wine club, and quit eating out so often. Aside from saving yourself a bunch of bucks for the cruising kitty, you'll begin to think in the cruising mode. What are you going to have room and budget for on a small boat? From what I've gathered, most cruisers are not particularly wealthy, but they have pared their lifestyle down to what they regard as just the essentials. The people who attempt to take their lifestyle with them, both in boat selection and luxury, do not seem to last at cruising. **** Red, with the odd ice cube, has supplanted Kendall Jackson. Most of the cruisers seem to live on a college freshman budget, with their number one concern being preservation of capital for a major, unexpected, boat repair.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Coding isn't really practical IMHO as a cruising profession. Web design can be... programming often needs far more face-to-face interaction between the programmer and client IMHO.


One thing I could see working in popular anchorages is communications equipment troubleshooting for the cruiser community: configuring Pactor modems, tuning SSB antennas, getting the fastest speeds on sat-phone uplinks, etc. And let's not forget plain old Windows/Mac troubleshooting. Hands-on repair (heat shrinking fresh connectors, conformal spraying circuit boards, etc.) would be a valuable service as well.

An electronics technician or someone even only moderately above solder jockey could make a few bucks here and there, especially fixing autopilots and other "exposed" electronics.

On the computing side, a lot of people would want bullet-proof access to blogs, which would not only require a touch of design work, but the ability to maintain the equipment to get online from far-flung places. Often this would be a consulting job...selecting and loading the best laptop (usually the most weather-proof, not the most powerful or capacious) and buying the appliances to keep it charged off a standard 12 VDC outlet.

Lastly, get a decent cartridge printer that can handle card stock. People love "boat cards". None of this will make you rich, but especially "boat electrician" could keep you fed and watered any place you drop anchor for a couple of weeks that has fifty Westerners in overly complicated boats already moored.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Valiente-

What you've described is much of what I have as part of my plan for when I go cruising long-term. Technical boat repair/upgrade skills are generally quite useful and usually in demand. I already do a fair bit of the communciations/GPS/Navigation systems work as it is at my marina. 

A decent photo printer isn't a bad idea either.


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## 42ndstreet (Oct 15, 2004)

Valiente, excellent reply. As are the others. We would like to go with a 40-42'Beneteau or similar. I believe we can make it on 25k a yr. We will have about 250k in cash. We will buy used. I guess we better get moving on debt reduction.


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## Kernix (Oct 5, 2006)

brak said:


> No kidding.
> 
> IMHO cruising and work are incompatible for most people except, perhaps, writers and ...


What about freelance photographers?


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## canadianseamonkey (Sep 4, 2006)

Wouldn't somebody who was a qualified marine surveyer make money abroad? If you could do one survey each week it would add to your kitty. Maybe surveys aren't required aborad?....just a thought.

I would also think that if you had any kind of mechanical skills you would be able to swap work for food.


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## Allanbc (Apr 19, 2007)

Kernix said:


> What about freelance photographers?


Freelance writing and photography are both very small markets. Freelance writing (except for some fiction writing) takes access to sources for background material. Freelance photography requires fairly good to high quality photographic gear. I don't see these are real viable options to make much income except for a very tiny percentage of people. You could possibly make a very small amount of money here and there while sailing.

Another option for making money as a freelance photographer is in the stock photography market. For a good photographer, you can make a sustained income off this. However, as for submitting photos, you need access to high speed internet or reliable mailing for CD/DVDs, computing power for photoshopping pictures, and be established with a stock agency.

I actually make my living as a freelance writer and photographer and I am dubious that I could be successful at making much of a living while extended cruising.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Fleeting visons of cruising while sustaining a steady income through my architectural profession, become just that . . . fleeting visions.


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## Kernix (Oct 5, 2006)

Wow - I have lots of quality equipment, but I would go freelance before stock - I'd even spend most cruising to get to spots to add to my library of pics and also cruise to art festivals and put up booths.

I already have a list of 60+ art galleries, magazines and other printed material editors who've I've contacted that buy what I shoot - some give you 5-10 day assignments like Backpacker who pay $400/day for up to 10 days - granted you'll have to follow other backpackers and you'll be humping one heavy backpack, but that's how you get payed by them (assuming you deliver quality pics). Other assignments do not pay as well but also don't involve that much exertion.

I'm hoping that the freelance thang along with either web-design or database programming will pay good (enough?) money. 

We shall see....


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

My wife and I have been making a living as prostitutes. Year to date my wife has made $154,321.87, while I have made $3.45. When you combine both incomes, that comes to almost $154,325. Not too shabby. My wife comes home from work feeling "exhilerated," while I've managed to keep my chin up during the rough stretches. On occasion an elderly gentleman client of mine will race off in his Zodiak without paying for his "backrub," but otherwise things seem to be going pretty smoothly.
Sailhog


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## phallo153 (May 4, 2007)

Actually I need to talk with you about that... I'd like my $3.45 back.


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## Allanbc (Apr 19, 2007)

Kernix said:


> Wow - I have lots of quality equipment, but I would go freelance before stock - I'd even spend most cruising to get to spots to add to my library of pics and also cruise to art festivals and put up booths.
> 
> I already have a list of 60+ art galleries, magazines and other printed material editors who've I've contacted that buy what I shoot - some give you 5-10 day assignments like Backpacker who pay $400/day for up to 10 days - granted you'll have to follow other backpackers and you'll be humping one heavy backpack, but that's how you get payed by them (assuming you deliver quality pics). Other assignments do not pay as well but also don't involve that much exertion.
> 
> ...


You are overlooking that doing those kind of jobs is pretty tough if you are cruising fulltime. Let's say you are sailing around in the BVIs and Backpacker Magazine wants you to go to Alaska for 10 days. You are on a sailboat so you don't likely have all your backpacking gear with you so you need to fly home. Then, you need to fly to Alaska. Of course, you just got the message they want to do the job three days after they contacted you. You need to get somewhere that you can leave your boat safely and catch a flight. That could take days. I also suspect that they are unlikely to pay for your flight from BVIs to your home and then pay travel from your home to Alaska. Unless you are a really incredible photographer, you won't get that assignment because they would have a much easier time hiring someone else.

A big part of freelance photography or writing is being able to have good communications between you and your client. I also worked at a publishing company as a Project Manager and hired freelancers. The ones I gave preference to in hiring were easy to contact and always met their deadlines.

As for stock, I know people who average about $2000/month over the course of a year.


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## Kernix (Oct 5, 2006)

Allanbc said:


> You are overlooking that doing those kind of jobs is pretty tough if you are cruising fulltime. Let's say you are sailing around in the BVIs and Backpacker Magazine wants you to go to Alaska for 10 days. You are on a sailboat so you don't likely have all your backpacking gear with you so you need to fly home. Then, you need to fly to Alaska. Of course, you just got the message they want to do the job three days after they contacted you. You need to get somewhere that you can leave your boat safely and catch a flight. That could take days. I also suspect that they are unlikely to pay for your flight from BVIs to your home and then pay travel from your home to Alaska. Unless you are a really incredible photographer, you won't get that assignment because they would have a much easier time hiring someone else.
> 
> A big part of freelance photography or writing is being able to have good communications between you and your client. I also worked at a publishing company as a Project Manager and hired freelancers. The ones I gave preference to in hiring were easy to contact and always met their deadlines.
> 
> As for stock, I know people who average about $2000/month over the course of a year.


I've already done my homework - Backpacker uses regional freelancers - meaning, if I live in the North East I'll be the guy they call when they want something from PA, NY, or DE since I live in Philly.

Secondly, me freelance would dictate my cruising - call it "sub-cruising" but I would basically "drive" to work - So I won't be in the BVI's and subject matter for mags are determined and edited within 3 days - plus how many peeps would drop all given 3 days notice - I don't think that will be the norm - so basically, I will not be in BVI when I should be somewhere else - do you understand

Communication - that's a given for everything

Easy to contact - cell phones and email are readily available - I won't be in the middle of the Atlantic without satellite signal

Meeting deadlines - I've been doing that all my life in my normal job - don't understand why you would think I would all of a sudden become loser bum not meeting my responsibilities.

Stock - $2000/mo - wow - how many 1000's of pics do they have and are they part owner in the stock company\archives? I've known 2 or more photographers to joing forces and create one massive stock selection of pics - I'm not one of them - if I can do that some day, then I too will make $2000/mo - and I know the amount of keeper pics I get in the first year of going fulltime would be better than my #'s now.


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## Kernix (Oct 5, 2006)

So to answer your BVI-Alaska thang - I would never be asked to work in Alaska - moreover, I would keep a monthly contact so as to get an idea where & when I would be needed - if at all - there's no reason to assume that they would use me once a year or more - that's why after contacting 200-300 potential clients, I narrowed down to 60+ where our interests\needs meet.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

42ndstreet said:


> Valiente, excellent reply. As are the others. We would like to go with a 40-42'Beneteau or similar. I believe we can make it on 25k a yr. We will have about 250k in cash. We will buy used. I guess we better get moving on debt reduction.


My budget is about $25K/yr. also, and to achieve that, I'm putting money upfront into ground tackle, windlass, "overkill" battery banks and solar/wind/small genset options. We want self-sufficiency not only because it makes us feel more capable, but because being on the hook is far cheaper. I won't mind things like Panama Canal transits and the *occasional* dock stay if my usual course is to drop anchor or to pick up a free mooring.

I 40% mortgaged my house to get the boat (we paid it off in seven years previously to that) in order to "capture" the equity run-up since we bought it in 1998. While a good 70% of what we borrowed paid directly for the boat, there's enough left over to do some house reno in order to make it into two rental units. Our plan is to have tenants cover the mortgage while gone due to the fact that mortgage interest is deductable on rental properties here. In other words, it's actually a win on the tax side to NOT have a paid off house that is also a "principal residence".

We plan on selling the current 'expedition' boat after five years. I have already confirmed that a sale in Europe rather than in Canada, where we bought it, should command a 20-30% premium, as northern Europeans recognize the value in a steel pilothouse cutter that has been well-maintained and continuously upgraded. So basically, in my broadest planning, we will return after five or so years, move back in to half our house (which will seem like a palace of empty space!), and I will do a crewed transatlantic to get the boat to England or Holland and liveaboard until she sells.

The proceeds from that should pay off the remaining mortgage. We would likely keep one of the two "apartments" as a rental unit to provide a base income (our food and utilities, etc.) until we re-establish ourselves. I intend to do travel and sail writing (I've been nationally published in other fields since the mid-'80s, and figure I have a good crack at keeping that going at sea), and will likely do so after we return.

Then I will retrieve my "loaner" boat, a 33 footer cruiser-racer and start looking for a job again.

There is a load of information on prepping for voyaging. There is less information on "life after cruising" for those taking a mid-life sabbatical. Maybe there's a book in that, eh? Anyway, the logic of taking a "retirement" is unassailable, pun intended. We are young and healthy enough to enjoy and work as needed aboard, and debt doesn't scare me, having paid off a house once already.

Of course, if I can make enough cruising kitty money while on passage to pay for cruising and maintenance, maybe we'll just stay out there for the rest of our lives. There are worse fates.


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## Allanbc (Apr 19, 2007)

Kernix said:


> I've already done my homework - Backpacker uses regional freelancers - meaning, if I live in the North East I'll be the guy they call when they want something from PA, NY, or DE since I live in Philly.
> 
> Secondly, me freelance would dictate my cruising - call it "sub-cruising" but I would basically "drive" to work - So I won't be in the BVI's and subject matter for mags are determined and edited within 3 days - plus how many peeps would drop all given 3 days notice - I don't think that will be the norm - so basically, I will not be in BVI when I should be somewhere else - do you understand
> 
> ...


The original poster in this thread is asking about work while circumnavigating. While your solution might work for you, it isn't practical for someone circumnavigating. Your solution wouldn't work for someone wanting to cruise fulltime either.


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

phallo153 said:


> Actually I need to talk with you about that... I'd like my $3.45 back.


That really hurts. I may not be the "fittest" male prostitute, and I may not brush my teeth or bathe every single week, but I do feel that I "give my all" to each and every client. That money is mine. I worked hard for it, and I'm not refunding a penny.
Sailhog


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Umm. one thing Kernix has overlooked... high-end photo equipment and small boats do not generally mix all that well. Salt air and high-humidity is death on good camera equipment... I speak from experience, having been a photog for over 25 years at this point...


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I'll attest to that. Years ago, as a result of using my photography gear onboard, my pre-digital AF Nikon film cameras and several expensive AF Nikon lenses, all had rusted screws. Some aluminum components suffered the corrosive effects of the salt water environment as well . . . and I brought the stuff home after use. I can only imagine the damage resulting from liveboard usage.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Sailhog...don't give in. If he wants more "bang for the buck" he should have paid Giu's prices! (G)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

gives new meaning to the expression "sail ho"

As to making money afloat, I think $ made during cruising should be viewed as gravy, not necessity. Many want to "escape" and live the free life. If you have to work to go, you aren't free. I can make a lot more on land in much less time and then play when the timing makes sense. A guy smarter than I taught me a long time ago, there are times when you can make money and that's when you work it hard. When things go soft and folks are scratching, take off. Most of us can't "create" an economy. You will do better to time you life around the financial cycles. That's the way my rich clients play.


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## 42ndstreet (Oct 15, 2004)

Could a singer in a bar make money?
serious question.
Please only answer if you have been overseas sailing full time.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

42ndstreet said:


> Could a singer in a bar make money?
> serious question.
> Please only answer if you have been overseas sailing full time.


Donna Lange does it. By overseas you mean Europe ?


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## witzgall (Jan 9, 2007)

Everything I have read about (promramming, photography, printing, etc) in this thread will make a good supplimental income, but is unlikely to keep you cruising full time. 

From the accounts I have read of lorg-term cruisers, most that need to re-up the kitty do so mostly by stopping in one place for a time, and getting whatever job presnets itself. As long as you are not picky, there is always work to be had.

Chris


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Cam,
Appreciate the support. I'm thinking of changing the name of my boat to: Port: The Other White Meat.
sailhog


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Woops. I meant, "Pork: The Other White Meat." It's been a long morning in barnyard.
Sailhog


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Hello...me phucky phucky...ten dolar...me lovy lovy...

me want boat for love, me do good things, with lovy lovy...ten dolar...

me catch gonorrea from Cam, and sifilis from CD but me no aids...yet....

me lovy lovy ten dolar, me 15 kids and all live in Catalina 400. me sing when ,make love, ok make love in bar, and sing also.

Me suck golf ball thru garden hose...ask french man.....10 dolar


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sailingdog:


> Umm. one thing Kernix has overlooked... high-end photo equipment and small boats do not generally mix all that well. Salt air and high-humidity is death on good camera equipment... I speak from experience, having been a photog for over 25 years at this point...


You're spot on there. I've lost all my canon stuff AE's A1's, lenses, filters etc all to corrosion and salt air. The digitals seem to put up with the environment a bit better as long as they're not in a tightly sealed container or plastic bag which traps the air inside. And the manufacturers have started using more plastic in the bodies.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

I bought my boat by going to marinas and have "my girls" do lap dances....very popular.....people pay them to stay dressed....










PS, models kindly provided by Ianhlnd.


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

G,
That's one ugly man-whore. Being a he-whore is hard enough as a farm animal, but I think that two-legged beast is going to have a hard time finding work.
Sailhog


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Nahhh I am pretty....that's my best wig!!!   

I have a photo of Cams butt, want to see it???


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

G,
You have to understand one thing: I'm a tired old he-hog-whore. All of this is just "shop talk" to me. I'm just trying to make useful suggestions to other barnyard animals who are trying to come up ways to make a living while cruising. 
Sail-Ho


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

sailhog said:


> G,
> You have to understand one thing: I'm a tired old he-hog-whore. All of this is just "shop talk" to me. I'm just trying to make useful suggestions to other barnyard animals who are trying to come up ways to make a living while cruising.
> Sail-Ho


*OK....I'm really happy you asked for it...​*
Here's a "rear view" of Cam's butt!!


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Whew! Thank God she had her underwear on or I would be cleaning up this monitor!


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

I have only one thing to say that that: I LOVE PORN!
Sailhog


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Seriously, I think G has been drinking today.
Or maybe he forgot to take his medications.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Must have lost a race during his daily morning sail.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> Must have lost a race during his daily morning sail.


I did.....     touched the buoey!!!  round the round......twice!!!!!!  

All was fine until someone shouted it out loud!!!

*HE TOUCHED THE MARK....HE TOUCHED THE MARK!!!!!!!!!!!!!​*


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

sailhog said:


> That really hurts. I may not be the "fittest" male prostitute, and I may not brush my teeth or bathe every single week, but I do feel that I "give my all" to each and every client. That money is mine. I worked hard for it, and I'm not refunding a penny.
> Sailhog


Besides, you've already spent it on dental floss, right?


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Valiente said:


> Besides, you've already spent it on dental floss, right?


Viagra and a tube of KY.
Sailhog


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