# to Swing or Not to Swing ... keel that is



## nogin (Apr 16, 2010)

So I am in the hunt for my first sailboat. Looking in the 22 - 27' range. I am looking at Seafarer, O Day, Morgan, Kells, Catelina, Lugar and even found a cool Grampian (so ugly she's pretty!:laugher ). What are the pros and cons to the swing keel? I know obviously that having the swing keel will allow me to enter more shallow waters. I will be in the LI Sound and Easter Seaboard so shallow waters are very few and far between.

Thanks!!


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## remetau (Jan 27, 2009)

Our first keel boat was a 24’ Morgan with a swing keel. Unless I am going to be sailing in shallow waters, I don’t think I would ever want another one. For me, it is just another thing to maintain and another hole in the boat for water to enter. We had a bad experience where the cable that controlled the center board got a meat hook on it and jammed the stuffing in the box. Luckily we were at a dock that had haul-out capability, because as I was inspecting the box, it ripped in half. Since then, one stuffing box on a boat is enough for me, and I’d like to do without it.

Edit: Oops. I forgot that I two stuffing boxes on my current boat; one for the shaft and another for the rudder post.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

My first boat was a swing keel (Helms 25) and I have mixed feelings. I loved the shallow draft and trailerability that the swing keel allowed. However, I didn't like the extra holes in the hull for the cable and pivot bolt. I also didn't care for the extra maintainence of the winch, cable, pivot bolt, centerboard/swing keel, etc. 

Depending on the hull design, some swing-keelers won't point to windward nearly as well as a fin keeler. My boat was also (obviously) quite tender without the board down. However, when broad reaching or running you can bring the swing keel up and eliminate some wetted surface (drag) to gain a bit of speed. 

Many swing keel boats also have kick-up rudders, which is something to be aware of.

I'm glad I experienced a swing keel design and had the chance to beach the boat, enjoy some gunkholes, etc. However, I probably won't ever own a swing keel boat again. I just prefer the stability of having a fixed keel.


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## nogin (Apr 16, 2010)

If we were to compare a MacGregor V22 (swing) to a Seafarer 24 (fixed) and I have never sailed before, would there be a great difference in the stability of the way she sails on the H20? Hypothetically LI Sound from Mt. Sinai Harbor to Black rock, CT.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

The Mac V22 and Seafarer 24 will sail very differently. The Seafarer has a long keel double the displacement of the Mac. I'm guessing the Mac will feel tender compared to the Seafarer, though I've never sailed either.


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## nogin (Apr 16, 2010)

Thanks for the input. I was thinking along the same lines just due to the ballast size and overall keel.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Our Tartan 27' has a cutaway full keel with a center board. Despite the added gear to maintain I really enjoy being able to change our draft from 6' to 3'6" by raising the center board. While most of LI Sound is not shallow there are plenty of spots around the edges that get quite thin. It also gets rocky along the CT coast. 
Our center board has already found the bottom of the Hudson and as such is a backup depth sounder.


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## remetau (Jan 27, 2009)

CalebD said:


> Our center board has already found the bottom of the Hudson and as such is a backup depth sounder.


A good bottom locator huh?


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hello,

IMHO, for the Long Island Sound, the ONLY benefit of a swing keel is the ability to trailer the boat. If you don't plan on trailering the boat, then don't get a swing keel. Some boats, like Catalina, don't recommend the swing keep for salt water. The pivot mechanism requires maintenance, the pendant makes it hum, it bangs around, and is just a PITA if you don't need it. 

If I were going to sail on the south shore, it would be a different story.

My first boat was a Catalina 22. Great beginner boat. I trailer sailed it for the first year (which was a drag) and put her on a mooring the second year. The swing keel made trailering OK.

Barry


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## MarioG (Sep 6, 2009)

I have both a swing and fix keel the C-22 is great for lakes and if you ground just crank up the keel and sail on. great starter boat The C-26 is at the coast for cruising.


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## LakePirate (May 10, 2008)

I had an O'day 23 with a swing Keel. Never had any problems and a couple times it saved me from running aground. The only problems I every had was backing out of the slip I had to be sure it was up or I could hang up on the cross members that ran between the ends of the slip. They went down form each side of the slip fingers in a v shape. As long and I was centered in the middle it would back out. If I was close to one side or the other it would catch.


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## nogin (Apr 16, 2010)

I have to admit the idea of being able to trailer it is awesome. However, like I read on another post, I would dread the hour plus it may take with each launch to set the mast and get her ready to sail. I would much rather just row to my boat and sail away!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

One advantage of having a trailerable boat is that you can often save on winter storage costs as well as have a much easier time working on your boat. I have a trailerable boat but keep it on a mooring for the reasons you just mentioned....and it makes a difference between being able to go out for a quick evening sail or not...



nogin said:


> I have to admit the idea of being able to trailer it is awesome. However, like I read on another post, I would dread the hour plus it may take with each launch to set the mast and get her ready to sail. I would much rather just row to my boat and sail away!


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## nogin (Apr 16, 2010)

Is it true that the swing keel is not recommended for the saltwater? The last thing I would want is something to bust on the swing while in the middle of the LI Sound b/c of salt water.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

nogin said:


> Is it true that the swing keel is not recommended for the saltwater? The last thing I would want is something to bust on the swing while in the middle of the LI Sound b/c of salt water.


No that's not true. Salt water is not good on cast iron keels with centerboards because they rust if neglected and the centerboard will seize up. There are plenty of ocean going boats with centerboards. One particular member has made trans atlantic passages with his.


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## nogin (Apr 16, 2010)

That's good to know, thanks! I have been looking into MacGregor and overall it has a pretty bad rap compared to it's counterpart Catalina.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

I hate swing keels. They can be done well, but usually are not.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

*Catalina 22 Swing Keel and Salt Water*

From the Catalina 22 Owner's Manual:

You'll face special problems if you decide to keep your retractable keel model in the water, especially salt water. Bottom paint is a must, plus periodic cleaning and removal of marine growth from the keel trunk slot. The possibility of corrosion to the keel and keel fittings is greatly increased. *Keeping a retractable-keel model in salt water for lengthy periods is not recommended.*

Barry



LandLocked66c said:


> No that's not true. Salt water is not good on cast iron keels with centerboards because they rust if neglected and the centerboard will seize up. There are plenty of ocean going boats with centerboards. One particular member has made trans atlantic passages with his.


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## nogin (Apr 16, 2010)

Thanks Barry!!! I guess the saving grace there is I can bring the swing keel to the dock and trailer her out to the side and without having to take anything down, clean the bottom and paint where necessary. 

I have all my fingers and toes crossed for this Seafarer 24 in CT. I am researching as much as I humanly can to make sure I make the right decision for me and my family for our first sailboat and considering all options.


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## peptobysmol (Apr 30, 2009)

*Swing keel*

I currently have a swing keel and yes the trailering is a definite plus. However, it IS just one more "thing" that can fail... I bought my boat on a trailer and the PO stated that he kept the swing keel up while he sailed. Later I learned that without tackle he would have never been able to deploy the swing keel unless he swam under the boat and manually deployed it (like I did). All thinks considered, if your racing your boat, trailering it or are at risk of grounding and need a shallow keel, get a fixed keel boat.
BTW I am in love with my boat! Isn't everyone in love with their first girl?


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

Just curious, but haven't these boat builders heard of stainless steel? Its this new stuff that doesn't rust up as bad. Lots of people have been using it.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

BarryL said:


> From the Catalina 22 Owner's Manual:
> 
> You'll face special problems if you decide to keep your retractable keel model in the water, especially salt water. Bottom paint is a must, plus periodic cleaning and removal of marine growth from the keel trunk slot. The possibility of corrosion to the keel and keel fittings is greatly increased. *Keeping a retractable-keel model in salt water for lengthy periods is not recommended.*
> 
> Barry


Catalina covers all there bases, huh?


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

nogin said:


> I guess the saving grace there is I can bring the swing keel to the dock and trailer her out to the side and without having to take anything down, clean the bottom and paint where necessary.


Just keep in mind that the swing keel/center board isn't accessible on most boats when they are on the trailer. You'll likely need to get some time in the sling to paint and inspect the board.


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## nogin (Apr 16, 2010)

... not so convenient then huh???


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Buying a boat is full of compromises. Just like being married!


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## nogin (Apr 16, 2010)

Yes but being knowledgeable and weighing all your options will lead to many happy years ahead!! I know from being married and owning a power boat.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

I chose the centerboard route. It's trailerable, easy to store and small. It will be used primarily in fresh water. It's 40 years old and the centerboard still functions normally. I plan to gunkhole and sail sheltered waters so all of this led to our decision. Once you narrow down how you'll use the boat you'll be closer to determining what works for you guys.


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## nogin (Apr 16, 2010)

If I were in your situation that would be my clear choice as well. However, I will be in the LI Sound and Eastern Sea Board so deep water a plenty. I was just considering the swing keel to reduce some haul, storage and mooring fees but it seems like it would be a PITA getting her all rigged up ready to sail each time we go out. Keeping a swing keel at the mooring is not an option for me at this time considering all the feedback from fellow forum members.

Thanks everyone!


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

I didn't read the whole thread but I'm a big fan of lifting keels. Antrim 27, and a few others that lock in place when they're down. I believe its a more modern and better design.


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## P8dawg (Jan 10, 2007)

I owned an S2 8.0 shoal keel. I loved it when my lake gets shallow in August, but the rest of the time it made it too easy to knock that boat flat in a gust. It's all give and take. I had to replace the hoisting cable once. Other than having to bring up the board with a cargo strap so I could back out of the slip, it was a fairly easy job.


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## nogin (Apr 16, 2010)

See that's my concern with such a light and tiny keel. The LI Sound can get pretty gusty and my wife isn't the best on the water with a lot of sway.


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