# New Member, Crossing to Ireland from FL



## Vagabond1954 (Nov 28, 2016)

Hey, all. New member, just signed up. Okay, this might sound a bit strange but here goes. I'm writing a novel. In the last chapter, my young sailor character, sailing singlehanded on a custom built 35-foot sloop he helped build, needs to sail from NE Florida to Dublin, Ireland. I need for him to be there on Christmas Eve. I know the Southern route is preferred in the cooler months but the Northern route is shorter (plus he can hope from port to port along the way northward) but fraught with bad weather conditions. How do I do this trip to make it as authentic as possible. Thanks!


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I think a trip from Florida to Ireland in late November/December would make little sense and would be very hard to sell to anyone with sailing experience. Not sure if the southern route you are referring to is in the trade winds, which would be provide lovely temperatures but you would be going into the (strongly) prevailing easterly and northeasterly winds. You could go a little further north (to the Azores and then north to Ireland) but then you go through a large high pressure area (poor winds for sailing) with fairly frequent winter depressions coming through to make life more 'interesting'. The shortest route would be to leave from Newfoundland but this would be a hellish trip at this time of year with strong storms (>50 knots), cold, snow, and short days - think of the conditions faced by WWII convoys, only think missing would be the U-boats. Only a fool or madman would try this passage. Perhaps your protagonist fits into one of these groupings. Best (only in a relative sense) would be Bermuda, Azores, Ireland but not a trip I would want to take.

You can check out the December North Atlantic Pilot Chart to get some sense of what is what.
http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/StaticFiles/NAV_PUBS/APC/Pub106/106dec.pdf


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## Vagabond1954 (Nov 28, 2016)

Thank you, Killarney Sailor. I'm going to have to figure out something. Maybe the Bermuda, Azores, Ireland route? I'm a Florida area sailor only so I'm totally unfamiliar with things like this. Can you tell me the disadvantages of going that route? If I can get my character there that way it's the way he'll have to travel. Thanks a lot for your prompt response.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

You've got a great adviser in Killarney, Vagabond. In case you were unaware, he and his wife recently completed a circumnavigation so they know of what they type.


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## Vagabond1954 (Nov 28, 2016)

Thank you, Faster. Yes, I gathered that right away. I'm going to have to come up with a solution of some sort because I've painted myself into a bit of a corner otherwise. There are other options to accomplish what I want to do so I might have to resort to one of them. I'm actually going to Dublin (again) later this week to refresh my memory of local color, places, etc. But thanks for the reply. I'm dogged and determined. I'll make it work out somehow. As a writer, I'm a stickler for accuracy and details so whatever way I elect to proceed with this I'll make sure it's authentic.


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## Vagabond1954 (Nov 28, 2016)

Killarney, could we communicate more by e-mail re this matter? I don't have enough posts to send you a private message per rules of the site.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Vagabond1954 said:


> he can hope from port to port along the way


He certainly would be "hoping" from port to port.

Your hero would be announced as an insane moron by any person who knows about the Atlantic and would come with a red sticker from the Coast Guard: Do NOT try this in real life!

Click on eww.passage weather.com any day now to Christmas and see all that Red, Blue and Purple stuff? That's wind that would kill him stone dead. As you click the button under the map the weather moves on 6 hours for the next 7 days... there is not one moment when he can slip through without life altering consequences (I.e. death).

Basically to only time to do that trip is May thru early June. Some try for earlier, in April, but that's when the fatalities occur, 6 died 2 years ago, a 6 year old last year and I don't know how many died this year - and that's a month thars meant to be good! Then after the first week in June its Hurricane Season till late November, but November gets the freezing westerly gales off the Great Lakes (read Perfect Storm).

North Atlantic storms in winter are not to be trifled with. Remember in World War 2 destoyers escorting cargo ships would roll over in the waves... read The Cruel Sea.

Your character would need a huge justification to be forced to sail at that time, and the offer would be so bold that you couldn't just let him have "a nice passage".

If he did do it, the course would be direct from Florida to Europe close to Gibraltar then hop up the coast... across the Bay of Biscay in winter (lololol)... then across the Irish sea. Geeeeez.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

This route that time of year brings to mind the perfect storm. Maybe if aiming to arrive at X-mas, you might miss the hurricanes that created the perfect storm but would be looking at winter weather in the North Atlantic.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Here's a great article with photos of an October storm. Only nutters would do it then and these Open 60's are definitely nutters. 60 foot of boat and half were forced out of the race on the first day in Biscay.

Velux 5 Oceans battle savage conditions in Bay of Biscay

Check out those pictures... not a place for a 35 footer


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

I suggest you get a copy of _Flirting with Mermaids: The Unpredictable Life of a Sailboat Delivery Skipper_ by John Kretschmer. Aside from being a great read, one of the stories recounted in the book is a trans-Atlantic delivery of a seventy-footer that John made in the winter. The trials and tribulations of that trip served to reinforce John's rule of never making such a trip.


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## Vagabond1954 (Nov 28, 2016)

Thanks for all your assistance, Mark. I guess I need to go back to the drawing board on this one or else have my character end up on the cooling board in the morgue - if his body is ever recovered.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

How about this sailor started going north along US east coast, got his rear end seriously whipped and his boat seriously damaged, so he stopped in Charleston SC, met a charming lady in a bar, and gave up on his crazy idea of sailing to Ireland in the middle of winter. 
Or, if his boat had a shallow draft, he sailed across Atlantic to the Med and then took French canals all the way up to British Channel. Long trip, but much safer and more fun. But then you have to make it from Calais to Dublin in the middle of winter. No fun at all but better than crossing North Atlantic.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

krisscross said:


> so he stopped in Charleston SC, met a charming lady in a bar,
> .


Ummmm that won't work. I just tried it for 6 months in every flee bitten bar from the Carolinas, thru New York right a cross to Seattle.

She does n o t exist. :frown

Maybe he turns gay and moves to Portland Oregon?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Unlimited ladies in the bars. Limited in flee bitten bars.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Mark, maybe those coastal bars are overfished? I practice catch and release only. And even a good nibble can be fun.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Vagabond1954 said:


> Killarney, could we communicate more by e-mail re this matter? I don't have enough posts to send you a private message per rules of the site.


I sent you a private message with my email.

Here is a weather map from passage weather for next week. In mid-December these weather systems would reach further south and very likely be stronger. You can see the progression of depressions with one near Bermuda, one near the Azores (the islands are shown) and a biggy off Ireland. Singlehanded in a 35 footer in this (and it could be much worse) would be challenging - at best. You probably could come up with a motivation for this trip but it would have nothing to do with pleasure (or likely survival).


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I say it is just an overnight sail.
He departs Miami or points north, enters the Bermuda Triangle later that day, pops through the space-time warp to Giants' Causeway, and he's in Ireland by dinner time.
Oh yes, you've got a science fiction trilogy ahead of you.

On the more mundane note, Florida has an excellent interlibrary loan system. Ask your local branch to order Jimmy Cornell's "World Cruising Routes" for you. He's got all the major routes documented and detailed, including what conditions to expect and what time of year is right or wrong. You'll have all the alternatives for the Atlantic laid out in one place.

Except, of course, Cornell does not document the wormholes. He's strictly old-school.


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## Vagabond1954 (Nov 28, 2016)

Thanks to all for your help. I'm going to have to reconfigure what I'm working on. Pain in the ass at this late date but doable.

As far as ladies go in any Lowcountry sailors bar? Be sure you're vaccinated against rabies first.


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

Having done a crossing in the far northern Atlantic during a more favorable season the only way you would convince me to go in December is on the QE II. 

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


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## skipmac (Oct 31, 2007)

Hi Vagabond,

It looks like you've gotten the message about a winter trip to Ireland and most of my points have been touched on but thought it might be helpful for you to summarize the weather patterns your character would be dealing with.

North Atlantic weather is centered around the Bermuda High which as you might guess, is more or less around Bermuda. In practice it tends to be centered east of Bermuda and seasonally further north in the summer, south in the winter. The BH is a large area of calms that separate the easterly trades to the south and the predominantly westerly winds to the north.

The easterly trades are the predominant winds from southern Europe/north Africa to the Caribbean as far north as central Florida. Trying to sail to Europe from Florida against the trades would be a difficult undertaking for a large, close winded boat, much less a typical cruising boat. The way to go is north of the Bermuda High.

What is usually referred to as the southern route tries to skirt the north edge of the Bermuda High, ideally just on the edge to avoid the calms in the center of the high. This route leaves from the US east coast (wherever one happens to be for a starting point but NC/SC is ideal) to Bermuda, Bermuda to the Azores to Europe. 

The northern route is much shorter, close to a great circle path, skirting Nova Scotia then more or less direct to Europe. However, even in the summer this route is far enough north to have a high risk of an occasional northerly gale. In the winter time one would be lucky to have a few days without gale force or better winds. As noted, even large ships have trouble on this route in the winter.

So in theory one might be able to try the southern route in winter and maybe get lucky at the start but the end of the trip arriving Ireland would put you very far north with almost 100% chance of major storms.

Hope this helps.


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