# What's going on with Kelly Hanson sails?



## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

They are "no longer taking orders"...

Home - Kelly-Hanson Sails

Are they just overbooked, or going out of business?

Any other recommendations for an economical sail loft? I don't need custom sails it is for a hunter 25


----------



## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Don't know where you are located but it is worth checking the inventories of the used sail places. I have bought and sold through Bacon in Annapolis (they also make sails but I don't know what their pricing is like). Their online inventory is very easy to use and they usually have something like 10,000 sails in stock. Look for sails in the Very Good or better range and see what the prices are like.


----------



## ronm145 (Dec 1, 2011)

peterchech said:


> They are "no longer taking orders"...
> 
> Home - Kelly-Hanson Sails
> 
> ...


I ordered a headsail and a furling system from Kelly Hanson on May 25 of this year. I have not yet received the order, nor would Kelly Hanson answer any email or phone calls. I even had Art Kelly's cell number. He ignored me. Kelly Hanson charged my credit card for $1,886.26. I have processed thru Better Business Bureau, and have a complaint pending with the Colorado Attorney General.

Their phone number has been disconnected.

I will notify eBay, the Texas Attorney General, and Visa. Visa is not going to be a happy camper.


----------



## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

I bought a cruising book from them and never received it, Ebay didn't stand by it so I guess I'm out! Not anything close too your cost.--Dale


----------



## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

If you google Kelly Hanson, you'll find a history of similar consumer complaints and BBB warnings going all the way back to the inception of their business. I googled them early on and have been warning friends about them ever since, but, sadly, people don't always heed warnings. Buyer beware. Don't wait for them to resolve your complaints. Take your complaints to any appropriate government offices that will listen to you, including the Consumer Protection division of your State Attorney General's office. Good luck!


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

ronm145 said:


> ...I will notify eBay, the Texas Attorney General, and Visa. Visa is not going to be a happy camper.


You mean you haven't called them yet? I'd call them first. Hopefully they'll waive the time limit since you never received your product.


----------



## mdbee (May 2, 2007)

*Refund*

After six months? Good luck, I hope VISA will refund. Of course I wonder if VISA will be able to do anything, if they aren't answering their phone & if their bank account is shut down?



ronm145 said:


> I ordered a headsail and a furling system from Kelly Hanson on May 25 of this year. I have not yet received the order, nor would Kelly Hanson answer any email or phone calls. I even had Art Kelly's cell number. He ignored me. Kelly Hanson charged my credit card for $1,886.26. I have processed thru Better Business Bureau, and have a complaint pending with the Colorado Attorney General.
> 
> Their phone number has been disconnected.
> 
> I will notify eBay, the Texas Attorney General, and Visa. Visa is not going to be a happy camper.


----------



## mdbee (May 2, 2007)

*New Name??*

Check this website:

Contact Us - Welcome

Same address & phone number as KH.

Guess they just keep changing their names, hoping people won't make the connection. Pretty stupid.

There was a new poster on another forum that posted the usual... "Hey, have you seen this new line of boats?" (They are banded over there) That seems to be their way of advertising. It didn't work for their line of "Freedom Sailboats" (not to be confused with the older Freedom Yachts)- I guess they are trying it again. Buyer beware.

One thing about the Internet... it can help to exposed flaky business practices with a little searching.


----------



## tomitch (Apr 7, 2010)

*How to get your point across to Kelly Hanson*

I sent this today.
"Hi Art,
Respond to this and you won't get a personal visit to your house. Refund $917.79 to paypal.
That's how we do it in Canada.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

FYI, it appears that someone named Arthur Wright Kelly III in Colorado has reserved the business name of Peak Sails. Colorado records show that Kelly-Hanson Companies was registered by someone named Arthur W Kelly.

At first glance it appears that Peak Sails in Colorado has no relation to an already existing company in Seattle named Peak Sails.

If I were the owner of the company in Seattle, I'd be getting on the phone with the Colorado Secretary of State to voice my concerns.


----------



## tomitch (Apr 7, 2010)

Thanks Rhythm Doctor,
I will call Peak Sails in Seattle to see if there is any connection. Their sails look similar to KH sails, so maybe they were a supplier to Art Kelly and he is going under their banner now. He got real upset that I asked for my refund. Got to keep this guy out of the business as it takes the fun out of sailing.


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

tomitch said:


> Thanks Rhythm Doctor,
> I will call Peak Sails in Seattle to see if there is any connection. Their sails look similar to KH sails, so maybe they were a supplier to Art Kelly and he is going under their banner now. He got real upset that I asked for my refund. Got to keep this guy out of the business as it takes the fun out of sailing.


Call if you must, but remember that this company in Seattle probably has no connection to anyone in Colorado.


----------



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Sailormon6 said:


> If you google Kelly Hanson, you'll find a history of similar consumer complaints and BBB warnings going all the way back to the inception of their business. I googled them early on and have been warning friends about them ever since, but, sadly, people don't always heed warnings. Buyer beware. Don't wait for them to resolve your complaints. Take your complaints to any appropriate government offices that will listen to you, including the Consumer Protection division of your State Attorney General's office. Good luck!


Not only that if you discuss his business practices on-line, even if factually stated, with dates, times etc., and he finds out who you are, he may threaten to sue you. Happened to someone I know who was a customer of his..

If I had to guess Sailnet will be pulling this thread soon...

Sad really


----------



## TackJibe (Dec 14, 2011)

One in the same. I read posts on the Catalina25 forum where there are links to the Secretary of State in Colorado showing the registrar as the same. 

The address in Seattle is a mail drop.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Ouch. This sounds seriously skanky.


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 15, 2011)

TackJibe,
That thread on the Catalina 25 forum has been pulled from view, so, as RythmDoctor indicated, the link you indicated between Peak in Seattle and K-H in Colorado may not exist. I'm waiting for more information/confirmation.


----------



## TackJibe (Dec 14, 2011)

Google the Seattle address. 

Look at the timing. One business closes, the other opens. 

What other sailmaker sells BoomKicker?

The product names are very similar. C1000 and M1. 

Hmmm. Coincidence?


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

What is the deal here?

The overall state of this sport and it's related industry has been in a death spiral for the past four years.

There have been several small and large companies that have been around for a long time that no longer exist.

From what I have read, this was a small, family owned company that was in business for close to ten years and fell victim to the worst down turn in the economy in decades. They aren't the first and they won't be the last when it is all said and done.

Why do you people feel it is necessary to publicly beat up on these people like this? Do you actually believe there was some plot to "steal" your money? I am pretty sure that wasn't the case.

And why wouldn't you have just disputed the charge with your credit card company and moved on to another loft?

There are more than a handful of big names in this sport that are literally holding on day-by-day with the hope things improve.

Behavior like this is embarrassing and destructive. There is nothing good that comes from it.

All I can see is a small group of people who obviously have nothing better to do in life getting some sort of perverse thrill out of the misery of another.


----------



## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

Caribbean2012 said:


> What is the deal here?
> 
> The overall state of this sport and it's related industry has been in a death spiral for the past four years.
> 
> ...


While it is sometimes true that some businesses fall victim to an economic downturn, it's also true that sometimes incompetent or even unscrupulous management run what might otherwise be a good business into the ground, until the business collapses under the weight of consumer complaints. You seem to know something about Kelly-Hanson. Was it in good standing with the Denver Better Business Bureau when it closed it's business? If one googled the business name, would one find that it had a lengthy history of consumer complaints? Did management have a history of threatening critics with lawsuits? I know the answers to those questions. Do you? I'm just asking, since you seem to know all about the company. I won't cast aspersions on the business. I'll just suggest that anyone who is interested should seek out the information for themselves. The answers are there, if you look. Oh, and I see that this is your first post. Welcome to the forum.


----------



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Sailormon6 said:


> Oh, and I see that this is your first post. Welcome to the forum.


Yeah welcome aboard


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Interesting post.

However, it appears to be nothing more than conjuncture. Much worse, it may even be your opinion. And we all know what opinions are like.....

I guess I am missing something here. The company is out of business. This all seems like such a waste of energy. Why don't you go out and do something positive for the sport and industry.

Since we know that won't happen, let's try this on for size.....

As a legal counsel to a large corporation, I know a little bit about slander and libel. why don't you let the public know the following:

1. Who specifically was incompetent running this business? I assume Kelly-Hanson was a partnership? Was it Kelly, Hanson or both?

2. Who specifically was unscrupulous in this business? I assume Kelly-Hanson was a partnership? Was it Kelly, Hanson or both?

3. You charge that management had a long history of threatening individuals with legal action. Please provide this forum with a list a complete list of who was threatened and copies of the complaints.

You defiantly shouted to the world that you "know the answers'. Then let's hear it.

I sure hope that you have documented proof of the bile that you are posting.

You may just end up pissing me off enough where I get a hold of this Kelly or Hanson and offer my services for free.

Peace on earth, good will towards man.


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Oh. Thanks for the welcome!

Yes, this is my second post.

Fortunately, I will never get anywhere near the 5,000 posts the two of you have racked up.

_Counsellor: Please be advised that personal attacks on fellow members is in viloation of Forum Rules. Please read the rulles and abide by them. _ Jeff_H Forum Moderator


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Come on boys.

I hear the New York Times is hiring.

Also hear Ralph Nader is looking for a running mate.

You talk big. Now let's see the proof.

Three simple questions. Answer them.

Please!


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

One last poke.

I wonder why you folks didn't whip up a crap storm when Momentum Sails went under. That happened this year as well.

Come on. I am sure you guys are in the know. Who was incompetent and/or unscrupulous there?

Even better. Where were you when Sailnet was in dire financial straights?

Why not dig up information about the ownership and let us know what happened there? Based on your gee whiz knowledge of business management, I am sure you can pinpoint was incompetent and unscrupulous as well.

But I digress.

Most human beings are not interested in seeing the results of a car accident.I want an answer to the three questions above. In fact I have a fourth. How does it feel to have gone through life and not made a single mistake?

......angels we have heard on high.....


----------



## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

Caribbean2012 said:


> Interesting post.
> 
> As a legal counsel to a large corporation, I know a little bit about slander and libel.


 As a trial lawyer with many years experience, I know a little about it, too.



> Since you seem to have a huge ego and love to talk about this particular subject, why don't you let the public know the following.
> 
> 1. Who specifically was incompetent running this business? I assume Kelly-Hanson was a partnership? Was it Kelly, Hanson or both?


 I didn't say anyone was incompetent.



> 2. Who specifically was unscrupulous in this business? I assume Kelly-Hanson was a partnership? Was it Kelly, Hanson or both?


 I didn't say anyone was unscrupulous.



> 3. You charge that management had a long history of threatening individuals with legal action. Please provide this forum with a list a complete list of who was threatened and copies of the complaints.


 I didn't say any such thing. I asked a question.



> You defiantly shouted to the world that you "know the answers'. Then let's hear it.


 I'll resist your invitation to tell you what I really think.



> I sure as hell hope that you that you and the few pieces of human garbage here have documented proof of the bile that you are posting.


 I haven't posted bile. I just asked questions and invited folks to seek the answers for themselves.

You shouldn't call people human garbage. Some might regard that as defamation.


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Caribbean 2012: 
I don't have a dog in this fight but whatever your opinion, ad hominem attacks are a violation of forum rules and I have now had to remove personal attacks from half of the posts you have made to date. Please read forum rules and abide by them.

And one more point, it seems to me that you had your three questions answered. The answer given was go online and do your own simple research and see what you conclude for yourself. 

The rest of you: You all know better. 

Jeff_H
SailNet Moderator


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Now Moderator.

This entire thread is a direct violation of this sites TOU.

Why don't you do everyone a favor and redact every post that contains slanderous comments about an individual or company.

The problem here is everything is speculation and I haven't seen a single fact to back up their assertion.


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

The dude says he knows all the answers.

He said he knows about individuals who have been threatened with litigation.

I say that is pure speculation without any proof.

More importantly, how would the ownership of this forum like to named in a libel suit.

No defamation here, Tiger. Go back and get a real law degree.


----------



## mdbee (May 2, 2007)

*Suggestion*



Caribbean2012 said:


> What is the deal here?
> 
> The overall state of this sport and it's related industry has been in a death spiral for the past four years.
> 
> ...


I suggest you go back and read prior posts regarding KH. (they go back for years) You might gain some perspective.


----------



## mdbee (May 2, 2007)

*Interesting*

Interesting post. Almost like you are personally offended. 



Caribbean2012 said:


> The dude says he knows all the answers.
> 
> He said he knows about individuals who have been threatened with litigation.
> 
> ...


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Actually, I am personally offended.


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Again, if the company no longer exists why all the fuss?

Must be some reason for it?


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Keep on posting away.....

Personnal threat removed


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Veiled personal Threat removed


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Come on.....

Another Veiled personal Threat removed. Please read your PM's


----------



## msmith10 (Feb 28, 2009)

A couple more posts and you're a senior member!


----------



## mdbee (May 2, 2007)

*Good one*



msmith10 said:


> a couple more posts and you're a senior member!


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Just answer my three simple questions.

Doesn't seem right that someone can come onto this site and make these kind of remarks without backing them up without some sort of documented proof.

Let's get down to the real interesting one.

You state that you know several individuals who have either been or threatened with legal action by this company.

I would like to know:

1. Who they were?
2. What was the nature of each complaint?
3. What was the resolution of each?

Once again, you state this as a public fact. I have just run through the court records in the State of Colorado and find nothing. In fact, I do not find a single piece of litigation that was filed by this company or against it.

I am sorry if you boys are finding my actions disturbing to Aunt Bea's sewing circle. However, you let this cat out of the bag and I have every right to ask for documented proof.

What I would also like to know why it is not okay for me to join this forum and speak my mind and yet 

Again, when do I see your scathing reports on Momentum Sails and SailNet?

I become more interested in it by the minute.


----------



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Caribbean2012 said:


> Again, if the company no longer exists why all the fuss?
> 
> Must be some reason for it?


Perhaps because posters like the quoted one below, who posted in this thread, feel they are still owed something from the company because they claim to have not received the product they were charged for....



ronm145 said:


> I ordered a headsail and a furling system from Kelly Hanson on May 25 of this year. I have not yet received the order, nor would Kelly Hanson answer any email or phone calls. I even had Art Kelly's cell number. He ignored me. Kelly Hanson charged my credit card for $1,886.26. I have processed thru Better Business Bureau, and have a complaint pending with the Colorado Attorney General.
> 
> Their phone number has been disconnected.
> 
> I will notify eBay, the Texas Attorney General, and Visa. Visa is not going to be a happy camper.


Perhaps you missed that post.?

Maybe your beef should be with the Better Business Bureau...

*BBB Kelly Hanson Sails*


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Hmmmmm.

Once again.....

Source and documentation please.



Sailormon6 said:


> While it is sometimes true that some businesses fall victim to an economic downturn, it's also true that sometimes incompetent or even unscrupulous management run what might otherwise be a good business into the ground, until the business collapses under the weight of consumer complaints. You seem to know something about Kelly-Hanson. Was it in good standing with the Denver Better Business Bureau when it closed it's business? If one googled the business name, would one find that it had a lengthy history of consumer complaints? Did management have a history of threatening critics with lawsuits? * I know the answers to those questions*. Do you? I'm just asking, since you seem to know all about the company. I won't cast aspersions on the business. I'll just suggest that anyone who is interested should seek out the information for themselves. The answers are there, if you look. Oh, and I see that this is your first post. Welcome to the forum.


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Hmmmmm.

Who was it?

Inquiring minds want to know.



Maine Sail said:


> *Not only that if you discuss his business practices on-line, even if factually stated, with dates, times etc., and he finds out who you are, he may threaten to sue you. Happened to someone I know who was a customer of his.. *
> 
> If I had to guess Sailnet will be pulling this thread soon...
> 
> Sad really


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

This is an interesting one.

Why was the thread pulled?

Inquiring minds want to know?

Any new information to report?



[email protected] said:


> TackJibe,
> That thread on the Catalina 25 forum has been pulled from view, so, as RythmDoctor indicated, the link you indicated between Peak in Seattle and K-H in Colorado may not exist. I'm waiting for more information/confirmation.


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Hmmmmm...

I am not debating the fact the company obviously had problems and appears to be cloed.

I wonder how many people actually did not receive their money back?

Anyone care to provide their expertise?

Come on. If you purchase something with a credit card and and you do not receive it, you simply have the charge reversed with your credit card company.

One must wonder how many companies got screwed out of product when SailNet and Momentum Sails had their problems?

Big difference in my book.



Maine Sail said:


> Perhaps because posters like the quoted one below, who posted in this thread, feel they are still owed something from the company because they claim to have not received the product they were charged for....
> 
> Perhaps you missed that post.?
> 
> ...


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Once again, I am confused.

I checked the BBB link. There are a handful of folks who filed complaints about not receiving their order. How many did not receive a refund or simply had the order cancelled by their credit card company?

The company website says they are are closed and no longer taking orders.

What is the big deal here?

Why does it remain "news"?

Inquiring minds want to know.


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Hahaha!

Look at this!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 13 (8 members and 5 guests)
Caribbean2012 , Jeff_H , jstroup , *Maine Sail , mdbee , msmith10 , Sailormon6*

Pretty much says it all, doesn't it?


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Hey Jeff.

Ban me!

Ban me, please!

You folks allowed this can of worms to be opened and I have every right to voice my opinion on what I see as nothing more than a public lynching of some people that lost a 10 year old business.

You told me the problems have been going on for "years"?

Can you please document what they were and when they occurred?


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Okay boys and girls.

Time to sign out for the evening.

So have at it while I am away.

I will be back sometime soon to collect your remarks and once again ask why no one here has the cajones to document any of the bile that has been posted as fact.

Please let me know about these threatened lawsuits and this mysterious tie to another loft.

These are the only issues I would like FACTS ON!

Remember......

Inquiring minds want to know!


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

msmith10 said:


> A couple more posts and you're a senior member!


A couple more posts like that and he'll be an ex member ....

Caribbean ... do take to heart what Jeff H is telling you or you are in for a right basting ....


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Caribbean2012 said:


> ...The company is out of business. This all seems like such a waste of energy. Why don't you go out and do something positive for the sport and industry...
> 
> ...Again, if the company no longer exists why all the fuss?
> 
> Must be some reason for it?


When a company goes out of business, sometimes the owner(s) establish new businesses under a different name. It is reasonable that a business's prior customers would want to know when this happens. In general, if the customers have been happy with the service of the prior company, they may want to identify the owner's new business(es) so they can do business with him in the future. Small businesses live at the will of their satisfied customers, so the owner(s) should want it to be known that they are continuing to operate under a new company name. Their personal reputation is on the line, and it is right for that reputation to follow them no matter what their business name changes to.

So, you see, communicating this information is "positive for the sport and industry." And much of the information is freely available on the Internet, so people will tend to share that information by posting links on message boards like this.



Caribbean2012 said:


> ...As a legal counsel to a large corporation, I know a little bit about slander and libel....I sure hope that you have documented proof...You may just end up pissing me off enough where I get a hold of this Kelly or Hanson and offer my services for free...More importantly, how would the ownership of this forum like to named in a libel suit.


In this quote you claim to have the skills to mount a libel suit, are willing to offer your services for free, and are threatening to sue Sailnet for libel.



Caribbean2012 said:


> He said he knows about individuals who have been threatened with litigation...


Based on your above quotes, I think we all now know that you are one of those who are apparently threatening Sailnet with litigation. Of course, your threat is only as real as the person posing behind the userid of Caribbean2012. So maybe it's nothing, and maybe it's serious. Which is it?



Caribbean2012 said:


> ...Doesn't seem right that someone can come onto this site and make these kind of remarks without backing them up without some sort of documented proof...I would like to know:
> 
> 1. Who they were?
> 2. What was the nature of each complaint?
> ...


Since you appear to have made the same threat, I think we have the same right to ask you for some documented proof.

1. Who are you?
2. What is the nature of your threat?
3. What are you planning to do to act on your threat?

If you are unwilling to share this on an open message board, then I think you will understand why others don't want to share it either. In my opinion, you are no more righteous than the people here to whom you are directing your threats and insults.


----------



## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

And so, we danced...

::drama::


----------



## mikel1 (Oct 19, 2008)

Trivia question: How many more posts from Caribbean After the "one last poke" this is for final jeopardy


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Caribbean2012....you give lawyers a bad name...like that is really possible, 

...I say heave ho


Dave


----------



## mdbee (May 2, 2007)

One issue has seemed to be trying to communicate with Art & company. I tried to get some information from them years ago about the purchase of a sail. They wouldn't answer my emails or phone messages.

I ran across this:

"I have sent numerous emails to all contacts I had with the company with no response.
Do business with them at your own risk..."

The Drive to Make Sailing Affordable. No Longer An Oxymoron. :: TheBeachcats.com :: WingZ Sailboats announces a brand new line of performance and cruising sailboats. La Costa, CA (see comments at bottom)

Perhaps communication is still a problem. Maybe a bad mail server? Bad answering machine?
It's great he got his money back though. That's one positive mark.


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Seasons Greetings to One And All!

No let's take a look at something that actually impacts human beings. Why haven't any of you chose to discuss this issue?

Do a little digging folks. Look at what these poor people were being paid before they all lost their jobs. And all they did was stand up and ask for money that was owed them.

How are you guys enjoying them new sails?

Dear all,
In December 2003 we asked you to suspend the campaign for the rights of the Sri Lankan workers producing “North Sails” surf-sails. Global action had led to a 6 point Memorandum of Understanding, between Boards & More (the Austrian owner of North Sails Lanka), the General Services Employees Union (FTZ&GSEU) and the Austrian CCC.
Nearly a year later we unfortunately have to conclude that the company has failed to implement the MoU in good faith, and therefore, conform point 5 of the MoU, we are re-opening the campaign and have informed management of this earlier this week.
What can you do:
Check the updates on this case and find an action request and sample letter.
Read more >>
Changes in Ownership
In September 2004 the production of surfsails (and boards) under the brandname North Sails was transferred from Boards and More to Global Sport Technologies (GST) holding AG in Switzerland. Mr. S is the chief of production. North Sails Lanka got a new name: it is now called Global Sport Lanka (GSL).
Violations of the MoU
The dismissed workers, whose faith is at the heart of the case, first filed against their dismissal in 2002. The cases came before the labour tribunal in February 2003, but management refused to attend. The MoU included a provision that both management and the FTZ&GSEU would accept the decision of the labour court regarding the cases filed by the workers against their dismissal as final. The second provision calls for direct and substantial negotiations between the company and the FTZ&GSEU (who would be permitted to establish a branch union). Since then, the court has divided the workers into several categories, all of whose cases are still pending. This clearly works to the advantage of management, who despite having vacancies and hiring new workers, refuses to give preference to the 38 workers whose cases are pending. Additionally, management has reportedly advised other employers not to hired these workers.
Meetings between North Sails Lanka and the FTZ&GSEU have taken place at the local level in January and again in April, however the substance of these meetings has done little to move the parties involved closer to a settlement. The union believes that by refusing the rehiring these workers, management is violating the spirit of the MoU, whose key element is the agreement to negotiate directly and substantially, which should include a settlement regarding the dismissed workers.
The FTZ&GSEU agreed in the MoU to stand by the labour courts final decision, and will stick to that agreement, but this can be a process that takes years more. Management should not use this as an excuse to refuse to negotiate a settlement! Meanwhile, the workers, most of whom migrated from the countryside can find no other jobs in the zone, among others because GSL has warned other employers against them. Some of them have produced North Sails surf sails for over 10 years but instead of this working to their advantage they now are negatively affected by the age discrimination common in the zone (anyone over 25 years has trouble finding work). To make matters worse, management also filed a complaint to the Board of Investment without raising the issue with the union first. Clearly, management is creating obstacles in to resolving this dispute, not moving closer to a resolution.
CCC Austria and International have repeatedly taken up these issues with the parent company GST. A meeting between management and the union was held at the Ministry of Labour on monday October 18, but unfortunately again with no results. Discussions were postponed without a fixed date. Management refused to consider a proposal from the side of the union that, to break the deadlock, Global Sports Lanka would take back at least some of the workers (ex. one employee from each of the 4 categories of status pending in the labour court), without waiting for the court decision and without prejudice to either party’s positions on matters at the court. This would show the company's genuineness to negotiate and arrive at amicable settlement, which they claim to CCC to wish the achieve.
Alltogether this leaves us with no alternative but to re-open the campaign.
The FTZ&GSEU calls upon Global Sports Lanka to:
reinstates the unfairly dismissed workers
constructively negotiate with the union representing the workers
respects union rights, now and in the future.


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

This one needs to read very carefully.

Tartan Strong Arms Sailnet & Threatens Law Suit - SailboatOwners.com


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Ho! Ho ! Ho!

Merry Christmas, mon!


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

This is actually getting interesting.

Take a stroll over to the Catalina 25 owners association site.

But first, jot down the more frequent posters to this thread.

These poor guys are carrying on the same discussion almost verbatim there.

What I find hilarious with all this is that most of them never even purchased a sail!

Can I have more whine with that cheese?

Gawd



mdbee said:


> One issue has seemed to be trying to communicate with Art & company. I tried to get some information from them years ago about the purchase of a sail. They wouldn't answer my emails or phone messages.
> 
> I ran across this:
> 
> ...


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Yup.

Can't live us....can't live without us. Nature of the beast I am afraid.

However, when you run into a little bit of trouble, who is the first person you call?

It ain't Ghostbusters!



chef2sail said:


> Caribbean2012....you give lawyers a bad name...like that is really possible,
> 
> ...I say heave ho
> 
> Dave


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Yawn.....

I am the Gatekeeper.

Why don't you go back to the Catalina board and try this once again.

Ooops! You can't because you and a couple others got caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

Quick question? Did YOU purchase a sail or are you like the others who didn't either and suffer some sort of Don Quixote complex?

Since you seem to be an expert on this subject, can you tell me the following?

1. How many people did not receive sails that were ordered? 20, 200, 2,000?

2. How many people did not receive a refund from this company or through their credit company?

3. Kelly-Hanson infers more than one owner? Are you certain Mr. Kelly was even involved in the day to day operations of this business?

4. You keep mentioning this "other loft". Can you please enlighten this audience on who it is and what documented evidence you have to make your assertion?

The computer and interweb are wonderful tools. I have done a little research on my own and have been able to determine the actual ownership of the company I believe you are referring to.

This particular company is incorporated as a LLC in a different state with four owners. Interestingly enough, none of them have the last name you think may be hiding there.

I guess the bigger question is who the heck really cares?

Legal Beagles have all kinds of nifty databases they can play with.

Of course I wouldn't do that. Unlike you and your ilk, I have a conscience.

I think you should also spend some time reviewing what transpired with the SailNet/Tartan debacle. It seems history likes to repeat itself and people never learn.

You simply cannot get on the interweb and spout off about issue you like without ramifications. Granted; libel, slander and defamation cases have some pretty high hurdles to clear in order to prevail. But in a situation such as this, you are making it easy if someone wanted to make an issue of this.

This has nothing to do with first amendment rights.



RhythmDoctor said:


> When a company goes out of business, sometimes the owner(s) establish new businesses under a different name. It is reasonable that a business's prior customers would want to know when this happens. In general, if the customers have been happy with the service of the prior company, they may want to identify the owner's new business(es) so they can do business with him in the future. Small businesses live at the will of their satisfied customers, so the owner(s) should want it to be known that they are continuing to operate under a new company name. Their personal reputation is on the line, and it is right for that reputation to follow them no matter what their business name changes to.
> 
> So, you see, communicating this information is "positive for the sport and industry." And much of the information is freely available on the Internet, so people will tend to share that information by posting links on message boards like this.
> 
> ...


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Grinch-

Interesting post.

Almost as interesting as the PM I received from Jeff.

Neither are what I would call unbiased.

You may not like my position or how I choose to present it. But that is just toooooo bad.

I am fully aware of what information you may have regarding my membership, ISP, etc.

I strongly suggest both of your refrain from the verbal abuse and physical threats.

I am not feeling any love here....none, nada, zilch, zero.



tdw said:


> A couple more posts like that and he'll be an ex member ....
> 
> Caribbean ... do take to heart what Jeff H is telling you or you are in for a right basting ....


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

And the hypocrisy continues......

I find it fascinating that companies can go belly up and screw folks out of $1.4 million in cash and goods and no one here says a word.

Then you had North screwing 200 employees out of $5.00 and firing them when they asked for it and no one says a word.

However, you have this rinky dink little sail loft and it has become the Great Satan.

One has to ask WHY?

What is the agenda here?

SailNet, an online shopping site for boating enthusiasts that expanded quickly during the dot-com boom, has declared bankruptcy and will be sold off.

The North Charleston-based company and its affiliates, all operating under the umbrella of MarineNet Inc., sought protection from creditors earlier this week in Columbia.

The once-high-flying company, which recently ceased operations, will not be reorganized. "Everything will be liquidated," said Ivan N. Nossokoff, the company's bankruptcy attorney.

SailNet listed nearly $1.4 million in debts and $211,000 in assets, mostly office equipment, inventory and unpaid invoices.

The decision to close and liquidate the business "was simply a matter of just not having enough money to continue to operate," Nossokoff said Wednesday. "It's just that plain and simple."

The bankruptcy filing shows that revenue at SailNet sank by $1.2 million last year, or 20 percent, to $4.7 million. Sales to date this year have totaled slightly more than $2 million.

The company listed its biggest creditor as Larry French, a Florida resident who sold his St. Petersburg-based sail-making business to SailNet about five years ago. He is owed about $420,000, according to a court filing.

Other major creditors include National Bank of South Carolina, which is owed $350,000, and the owners of SailNet's former and current corporate offices in Mount Pleasant and North Charleston, respectively. The landlords are owed a combined $131,809.

The company is scheduled to meet with creditors Aug. 24 at a hearing in Charleston.

SailNet sought bankruptcy protection several days after The Post and Courier reported the online retailer had stopped taking orders and that its Leeds Avenue offices had been closed for at least several weeks. Customers who said they have been overcharged or have not received their orders have been posting complaints about the company on Internet message boards.

Nossokoff said it's too early in the bankruptcy process to say how the court will handle any unfilled orders or overcharges. He also was not sure what will become of any personal information such as customers' credit card numbers that might be stored in SailNet's computer systems.

The liquidation plan spells the end of what had been a promising local technology business.

SailNet was launched in 1994 in Detroit by Sam and Cheryl Boyle, who moved the venture to the Charleston area in 1999. The next year, the couple sold a controlling stake for an undisclosed sum to IDG Ventures, a San Francisco-based venture capital firm.

Flush with cash, SailNet began to expand through acquisitions in 2000, when it bought Johnson Sales Inc., a Florida business that manufactured sails and other boat accessories. That same year it acquired Boston-based competitor Boatscape.com.

At the same time, SailNet hired a crew of programmers, sales staff and craftsmen. At its peak, the dot-com employed about 60 workers in the Lowcountry and another 140 or so in Florida.

The Boyles last week told The Post and Courier that they parted ways with the company's majority owners in December. The bankruptcy filing listed about 30 other businesses and individuals as shareholders, whose investments in the company are wiped out.

SailNet said in its bankruptcy filing that John Rublaitus, who was named president and chief executive officer in January, stepped down from those positions Monday and is now serving as a consultant to the company. Nossokoff said Rublaitus was traveling Wednesday and unavailable for comment.

John P. McDermott can be reached at 937-5572 or [email protected].


----------



## jimrafford (Jan 7, 2011)

So I guess what your saying is there is nothing for you to chase at sailnet.
Hay wait... there goes an ambulance.
Jim


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Jim....

Actually, I believe in tort reform.

Obviously there is something here. Otherwise I wouldn't be wasting my time.

There are a few guys here that I am watching. I am waiting for the big screw-up.

I know it will come sooner or later as they simply cannot stop.

SailNet filing for Bankruptcy. Old news ain't it?

So is this thread.


----------



## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

An underlying issue at the crux of this peeing contest is the question of whether buying cheap goods, made by low-wage workers is ethically defensible. Putting aside the obvious truth of caveat emptor, when you make the decision to buy something made in a third-world country, you've made an ethical decision. One populist opinion is that buying American-made products is more "right" because it supports U.S. workers. The opposing idea is that by buying sails or anything else made in low-wage countries, it has benefited the workers of that country regardless of the low wages they receive...something is better than nothing and it is a "foot in the door." I believe that much good has been done in places like Sri Lanka, etc. by giving the people productive work, moving them out of abject poverty. Moving offshore has the effect of putting some Americans out of work but does indeed benefit people elsewhere who have few options. 

No one here knows what really went on with this company, nor anything about the principals. I almost ordered a storm jib from them last year. The price was right and it looked like a good product. Has anyone had a GOOD experience with them?


----------



## s.j.p (Dec 17, 2011)

Why would Caribbean2012 take such an interest in this thread?

Hmmm, could it be that Caribbean2012 is personally involved with KellyHansonSails?

I could be wrong here but the words coming from Caribbean2012 sound an awful like those of Art Kelly. 

***


----------



## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

So I suppose this all means; I'll never see my chart book or my money! - Dale [ And I never got a chart book!]


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Nice post!

I guess I have a different perspective on this.

The North issue is not widely known. You really should do a little digging and see what transpired. Essentially, 200 workers were fired for simply requesting what was owed them. An amount that wouldn't buy two cups of Joe at Starbucks. In my opinion, this taking advantage of the disadvantaged, which is pretty vile in my book.

Aside from this case, the bigger picture is shipping manufacturing jobs overseas. It appears (may be wrong) that you feel the number of jobs lost by Americans is relatively small and justified. The number is massive and is the primary cause for the economic woes this country has today.

It simply stems from corporate greed. Manufacturing is moved to low wage environments to enhance margins. It is simple as that. We need to get a congress and President that gradually begins to reverse the hemorrhage. Why aren't we identifying parts of the country that are essentially rust belts like Ohio and offering incentives to companies to bring manufacturing back to this country?

Granted, they may not all be big buck, white collar jobs, but they are jobs.

As far as the other subject....

With a company that was around for ten years, I am sure there were plenty of satisfied customers. However, I doubt you are going to hear from anyone as the tone and tenor of this thread really isn't conducive to doing so.

The sad part of this entire pissing contest is that it is being orchestrated by less than five people. And of the five, it appears most of them never even purchased a sail form them.

It doesn't make sense and I am more than happy to point out this hypocrisy.

I would never purchase a North product. They are overpriced and there is little good to say about their corporate culture.

However, I would purchase from SailNet in a heartbeat. Sure, they fell on hard times and several individuals were hurt. But everyone deserves a second chance in my book.



smurphny said:


> An underlying issue at the crux of this peeing contest is the question of whether buying cheap goods, made by low-wage workers is ethically defensible. Putting aside the obvious truth of caveat emptor, when you make the decision to buy something made in a third-world country, you've made an ethical decision. One populist opinion is that buying American-made products is more "right" because it supports U.S. workers. The opposing idea is that by buying sails or anything else made in low-wage countries, it has benefited the workers of that country regardless of the low wages they receive...something is better than nothing and it is a "foot in the door." I believe that much good has been done in places like Sri Lanka, etc. by giving the people productive work, moving them out of abject poverty. Moving offshore has the effect of putting some Americans out of work but does indeed benefit people elsewhere who have few options.
> 
> No one here knows what really went on with this company, nor anything about the principals. I almost ordered a storm jib from them last year. The price was right and it looked like a good product. Has anyone had a GOOD experience with them?


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

And this simply proves my point.

From one newbie to another....yeah, you ARE wrong.



s.j.p said:


> Why would Caribbean2012 take such an interest in this thread?
> 
> Hmmm, could it be that Caribbean2012 is personally involved with KellyHansonSails?
> 
> ...


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Grow up!

Why didn't you just file a dispute with your credit card company if you didn't receive it?

Insanity rules!



Lake Superior Sailor said:


> So I suppose this all means; I'll never see my chart book or my money! - Dale [ And I never got a chart book!]


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 10 (5 members and 5 guests)
Caribbean2012 , DaveyR , jblumhorst , Lake Superior Sailor


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

To the person highlighted in red.....

PLEASE POST SOMETHING!

Let's have some real fun!


----------



## Caribbean2012 (Dec 16, 2011)

I can hear that can of worms being opened as I type.


----------



## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

tdw said:


> A couple more posts like that and he'll be an ex member ......


Prophetic words indeed.


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Then there is reasons why, many forums will not allow posts in regard to companies or people that are in court for various and sundry reasons...............

Marty


----------



## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Caribbean2012 said:


> Nice post!
> 
> I guess I have a different perspective on this.
> 
> ...


I know what you're saying about the offshoring issue and often see it from that perspective. Case in point: I make violins as a hobby but do not even consider selling them because there are Chinamen making pretty good ones for pennies an hour. So be it. It has obviously hurt many Americans in more, probably more devastating ways than just financially. However, I also see the good being done to move dirt-poor people out of poverty around the world. I think it was one of the core ideas of globalization as well as basic greed. Quite a dichotomy! As this is a political issue, it probably belongs on the "politics" threads.

Having bought a heavy-duty sewing machine and learning to make my own sails, I can now make the sails I want out of the the best materials for even cheaper than buying an unknown brand.


----------



## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

So They listed this chart book on Ebay and I bought it. Only to be told it was out of stock,and would be shipped soon. Then it was out of print & They would send it as soon as the new copies arrived. at this point its to late for paypal . Now I was assured I would see it soon: then the emails stopped! Then I see this thread. So I never got a chart book! --Dale


----------



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Lake Superior Sailor said:


> So They listed this chart book on Ebay and I bought it. Only to be told it was out of stock,and would be shipped soon. Then it was out of print & They would send it as soon as the new copies arrived. at this point its to late for paypal . Now I was assured I would see it soon: then the emails stopped! Then I see this thread. So I never got a chart book! --Dale


So sorry to hear of your troubles. What chart book is it? I have lots of old ones, and while not current, the rocks don't generally move. I'd be more than willing to give it to you for free if I have the right one.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Holy crap! I missed all the fun!

Carib goes supernova and gets the stick while I'm following the VOR. He even used my favorite term of endearment! I really need to get my priorities straight.


----------



## neverknow (Feb 2, 2011)

We have a small business and all I can say is after 12 yrs it's still going strong. Why? Because we don't screw our customers. Seems pretty simple to us. Happy customers equals a successful business.

Hard times like these thin out those who are not very good businessman. The companies that make it through all this will be much stronger in the end.


----------



## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

Richardsons chart book Lake Superior hard one to find--Dale


----------



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Lake Superior Sailor said:


> Richardsons chart book Lake Superior hard one to find--Dale


Yeah I don't have that one. Sorry I could not help..


----------



## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

Thanks ! anyway it's all about the thought,-- Dale


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

In the interest of fair disclosure, philosophically, I agree with the point about factories producing items cheaply overseas, especially when those factories are doing so to circumvent polution and worker safety rules in the States, and philosophically, I am also concerned with the shipping of jobs overseas to people who are not paid above the prevailing wage where they live. I see these are big societal issues, but ones which I personally try to weigh when making big purchases. My personal opinion on these issues have nothing to do with the various actions taken here. 

While these issues are related to the problems of Ameican Yacht builders and suppliers, including the apparently now defunct sail loft in question, I also understand that some of you believe that the issues being raised may go beyond the specific issues being discussed in this thread. Yet in moderating this thread, regardless of my viewpoint,within the context of this discussion, I believe that these are still valid discussion points and so therefore they have been allowed to remain in this thread rather than being moved to Off-Topic. Similarly discussion about the Sailmakers in question has been allowed to remain as they appear to be based on information that is either personal or can be based on the online citations referenced, the veracity of which can only be judged by the reader. 

What has been deleted are items that were perceived by myself, and my fellow moderators as personal attacks and threats in violation of forum rules. Our goal in doing so was not to censor or muzzle a diverse point of view, but to maintain this site as a place where people can engage in a lively dialogue, even one in which there are clearly strongly held divergent points of view, without posters feeling threatened or personally attacked for their viewpoint. Forum rules allow you to argue the facts all day long but do not permit a member to demean fellow posters. 

For those of you who do not know, SailNet's moderators were all normal SailNet members who were then asked to assist in policing the site. We are un-paid volunteers who do this simply because we believe in what SailNet offers, in other words, a family friendly forum for discussing sailing issues. We work hard to balance that goal, with being fair-minded and even handed. If we have an agenda, it is to provide a place where all viewponts can be civilly explored. When in doubt, we discuss our concerns amougst ourselves, behind the scene and generally reach a consensus before we take a serious action. 

I also want to mention the comments made about SailNet's earlier bankruptsy. I have been a poster on SailNet since sometime in the early to mid-1990's and was a normal member at the time of the reorganzation. In fact, I had a NEMA to Raymarine Seatalk translator on order at the time the company folded and its assets were purchased by the current owners. After the company was reorganized I received an email offering to either deliver the part or else credit my credit card. I think I took the credit but I can't recall. I had figured the amount charged was lost and was appreciative that the new owners chose to do the right thing. It was several years later I was offered and agreed to the opportunity to be a moderator on this site. 

I hope that those of you who have descibed having outstanding balances will see an acceptable resolution. For the rest of you, I will caution everyone against casting speculative aspersions. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


----------



## UncleJim (Jul 27, 2009)

Well said Jeff. 
As Caribbean 2012 has had his say I won't touch on his points or the finical status, or lack thereof, of K-H. The underling problem that customers have had with K-H and other lofts or retailers like them is that while they were good at what they did, in the case of said loft...make sails. They did not have a professional to do their web store. Just because you can cook doesn't mean you can run a restaurant. Just because you can make sails doesn't mean you can sell them on the web. 

I've had good and bad experiences buying from K-H. The bad I just used their web page. No confirmation email, no receipt and a delay in shipping. When I picked up the phone and placed a call to order something, a different story completely. From reading others post here and else wear I'm sure your mileage may vary. Point is from a customers viewpoint, be sure of web page is secure (HTTPS) and that it looks like a professional setup. For the store owners become a professional or hire a professional.


----------



## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Lake Superior Sailor said:


> Thanks ! anyway it's all about the thought,-- Dale


 I'm sure you must know this already but just in case....NOAA has all US charts available, downloadable for free online. They are compatible with most nav. software or can be printed out. RNC Downloads

By the way, well said Jeff.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Well said Jeff

Dave


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

smurphny said:


> I'm sure you must know this already but just in case....NOAA has all US charts available, downloadable for free online. They are compatible with most nav. software or can be printed out. RNC Downloads
> 
> By the way, well said Jeff.


I'm not familiar with the Richardsons chart book, and don't know what particular features that made them desirable. If it's because of the convenience factor of having a book, don't forget that NOAA currently has an experimental BookletChart product that can be downloaded for free and printed onto normal 8.5x11 paper. I've done this for my sailing area using two-sided printing and stapled them into a book form. They're very nice to have around for planning and reference:

NOAA BookletCharts for Great Lakes

Note that 14961 covers all of Lake Superior, and there are numerous others giving more detail on sections of the lake.


----------



## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

Thanks for the tip about Booklet Charts, Rhythm Doc. They look useful.


----------



## ozsailer (Aug 25, 2007)

Hello all,
while a member of this site for some time I do not post regularly although barely a day goes by without me reading the majority of threads. I bought a sail from Kelly Hansen earlier this year and it was not the most pleseant of experiences. I did post my experience of the Catalina site which read as follows. 

Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 04:41:36 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello everyone,
I have to admit that I am not a Catalina owner but was looking at your site when searching for any information on Kelly Hansen sails and came across your site. Unfortunately we had already ordered a 130% furling genoa through the internet site when I read all the negative comments. Prior to the purchase we had very good communication with KH but after one month no sail had arrived. After several emails of which none were replied I finally rang the company to be told that the sail had not be sent and was sitting on the floor packaged and they wanted more to post the Item. After some discussion they promised to post it that day and supply a tracking number. This did not materialise after a week so we lodged a complaint through Paypal who we used to pay for the item. After much to and fro we finally recieved our sail this week. I have to admit the sail looks as good and well constructed as any sail I was comtemplating over here. I have no issue with the quality or price but the service cerctainly leaves a lot be be desired. Had we not raised a a complaint with Paypal I doubt we would have our sail today. Its a shame really, they seem to have a good product but lousy service. Would I use them again, only if I could walk in to the loft, pick the sail up there and then, pay and walk out.Unfortunately its a long walk from Oz to the US of A  "

It was interesting in that I had several personal calls with Art Hansen prior to purchasing the sail but after ordering the sail no calls or emails were returned. Several associates were waiting to see the sail to place their own orders but after seeing the muck around and no excuses' forthcoming they placed their orders elsewhere. The facts in this are all supported in emails to KH and correspondence with paypal.


----------



## neverknow (Feb 2, 2011)

ozsailer said:


> Hello all,
> while a member of this site for some time I do not post regularly although barely a day goes by without me reading the majority of threads. I bought a sail from Kelly Hansen earlier this year and it was not the most pleseant of experiences. I did post my experience of the Catalina site which read as follows.
> 
> Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 04:41:36
> ...


This is our point exactly. A small business lives and dies by it's customer service. No matter what industry you are in the word gets around. Plus you are only as good as your last job.

Treat the customer right and they'll not only return for more but also tell their friends. Any problems at our company get the first priority, we will not rest until the problems are taken care of. Let's face it we all make mistakes, the test of a good company is how they react when a issue comes up.


----------



## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

RhythmDoctor said:


> I'm not familiar with the Richardsons chart book, and don't know what particular features that made them desirable. If it's because of the convenience factor of having a book, don't forget that NOAA currently has an experimental BookletChart product that can be downloaded for free and printed onto normal 8.5x11 paper. I've done this for my sailing area using two-sided printing and stapled them into a book form. They're very nice to have around for planning and reference:
> 
> NOAA BookletCharts for Great Lakes
> 
> Note that 14961 covers all of Lake Superior, and there are numerous others giving more detail on sections of the lake.


I always make printout booklets as well and have a little inkjet aboard just for this purpose. One big advantage of doing this is that you can make a 200% blow-up if needed. I make all my notes on them as well to later be transferred to log. Very handy.


----------



## tidal9 (Nov 27, 2011)

My wife and I are looking forward to vacationing in the Carribean in 2012, I'll be sure to pack my favorite snack, Almond Joy, cause' sometimes I feel like a nut...


----------



## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

Flash!!! I just got my Snail Mail and My Lake Superior chart book from Corvus Marine LLC has come. With a extra DVD on Lake Superior, Never thought I would see it .Thank you! And I did get a chart Book--WoW! ---Dale


----------



## boating bobby (Feb 17, 2016)

Guess I just "got lucky!" I bought main, 110 and assym from Kelly Hanson a couple of years ago. All were built in Barbados and are beautiful, custom designed sails that were very inexpensive. Good service too (although they weren't quick, I must say they adhered to their "promised deadlines") The asymmetrical "cruising spinnaker" was fully tri-radial and came with a "sock" or "dousing sleeve." The main had all the features I requested from the alloy headboard, top two full battens, draft stripe, two reefs, loose foot, good strong radial-construction "corners" with webbing and s.s. rings, webbed luff slugs w/s.s. bails and a good clew slug fit for a much larger sail than anything you'd ever need on a humble Catalina 22. If Art Kelly is "listening" Bob Burnham in Florida sez "hi!" I recently had good results with Far East Sails who also uses Challenge Performance Cruise sailcloth. Again, every feature desired executed perfectly, tho, again, not instantly. Good communication---in effect, the customer "designs" the sail, even as to draft chords and placements, construction, etc. and FES simply "stitches up" what you want. I'm currently considering Peak's "Generator 165" and don't "worry" about gettin' ripped off---that's what credit cards are for--they're an absolute "fire-wall" between you and unscrupulous vendors! Visa's maximum buyer liability, for instance is only $50.00 an' if you ain't got fifty bucks you probably shouldn't be playin' with "blow boats" ta begin with. Jes' sayin1 .....


----------



## FSMike (Jan 15, 2010)

bobby -
Judging from the age of this thread I'm guessing you bought your Kelly-Hanson sails in 2011 or earlier.


----------

