# Documentation/Registration/Bahamas/US



## sherb (Jan 16, 2016)

US built boat. USCG documented, Bahamas registered. Sold from one US citizen to another. Transferred the Bahamian registration and paid for a year. I assume I should complete the USCG Documentation process? Now I am confused about flags and entries/exits. Can this vessel be USCG documented, Bahamian registered, Bahamian Port on stern, flying the US Flag? Or Bahamian Flag the boat and the few months in the US cruise on a permit? Converting to liveaboard so not sure about even having a US Port. Any insight would be helpful do to the confusing nature of this. I am currently a NC resident, so there is no sales tax on private to private, I am not sales tax dodging, just don't think the boat will be in the US but a few months per year.


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## jdazey (Jan 16, 2016)

I'm pretty sure a US documented boat has to have a US home port. You can find out about everything you need to know on the US Vessel Documentation Center web site.

Cheers,
Joe


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Kind of a mix match set of questions. First, just to be on the same page, US Documentation is a form of title, not registration. Registrations is typically a sovereignty collecting a fee for staying inside their waters for a defined length of time. For example, my title is in the form of USCG documentation, but I am registered in Rhode Island. 

USCG documentation comes with specific hailport requirements and any US city/state is one of them. Letter sizing and location are also specified, but often violated. Bottom line is that the hailport is identified on the USCG documentation itself and that hailport has to appear on your boat. What does it say? You can pick any US city/state you choose, it doesn't matter where the boat is or where you live or anything. You can also file to change it, if you like. But, again, you then have to change it on the boat. You can't be USCG documented with a Bahamian hailport.

I'm a little concerned that you could have a chain of ownership/title issue. If Bahamian registration is a form of boat title in the Bahamas, was the US documentation dissolved? If not, whomever is on that title still has rights to the boat. I would clear this all up.

As far as taxes, cruising permits and coming to the US....... If she is titled in the US (and has proper hailport identification consistent with the documentation), no cruising permit is required. Indeed, no state can levy taxes on a vessel that has never been in its waters, so you're not dodging taxes in NC, if that's the case. However, whatever state you do bring the boat to for a few months will feel differently. Each has its own rules, as far as when Use Taxes apply. A few weeks to a few months is typical. Stay longer and that State has the right to collect Use Tax on the value of of you boat, although, they will typically allow a credit for any Sales Tax you already paid to another State. Each State needs to be researched. The rule of thumb is, if you're truly just passing through, it's very unlikely to trip tax laws in any other state, other than the one in which you reside (your state of residence often claims immediate rights). If you plan to stay for a length of time, know that State's rules. Some require marinas and harbor patrol to report vessels on extended stays.

Look into that chain of title.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

jdazey said:


> I'm pretty sure a US documented boat has to have a US home port.


Yep. Pick Garden City, Kansas, if you want. The boat does not ever have to have been there. You don't ever have to have been there. There doesn't even have to be any water anywhere nearby. The Coast Guard doesn't care. But it does have to be a real place, somewhere in the United States.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Minne- 
I think you've got it reversed. Even the USCG refers to vessel documentation as "registration" from time to time. You are effectively registering your boat with The Sovereign, the federal republic, rather than just the limited sovereignty retained by the states. Among us civilians, a lot of us try never to use the "r" word for federal (the nation state) documentation, since it is so easily confused with state registration.
And it isn't just for titling purposes. When a vessel is documented, a whole bunch of other conditions come into play. Repatriation of crew from abroad. Entitlement to carry the mails from overseas to a US post office, without interruption by anyone, including DEA. A whole (rapidly dwindling) bunch of things that most people don't know about.
If the Fed needs vessels for coastal patrol, as they did in WW2, they've got a convenient list of them. Before everything went electronic, that would take a lot of effort to gather from the registries of the coastal states. Now, again, not what it used to be.

But last time I looked documented vessel also had to carry her purported US homeport on the stern. If that boat has a home port in Bermuda...uh-uh, something is irregular. Either we invaded Bermuda and took it over last weekend (hey, the news about Cuba is all they talk about) or, as you say, the chain of title and ownership really needs to be looked at. If the vessel is US documented, I'm under the (mis?)impression that it would have to be formally "imported" into Bermuda, or else enter as a visiting guest vessel. 
The OP would need to check out Bermudian laws very carefully, check out the chain of ownership very carefully, and then check with the US, because the vessel probably should have been "undocumented" and might face sanctions, if not arrest, on entering US waters this way. One never knows what a baffled customs agent will do, and the OP's situation qualifies as "most irregular".


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

hellosailor said:


> Minne-
> I think you've got it reversed. Even the USCG refers to vessel documentation as "registration" from time to time.......


You're right, in that they do use the term. However, it is not analogous to State Registration, rather the USCG National Documentation Center is a register of Federal titled vessels.

There is no mandatory Federal Registration requirement, like there is at the States.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I won't swear for all of the states (or DC or the eleven insular possessions(G) but I think in most states, there is actually no registration requirement unless the vessel has mechanical propulsion, exceeds a certain size, is in commercial use...you know, all that good stuff. If you could find a good "temporary" auxiliary powerplant to use, I think you could even get away with state registration in some places.
Damned Flipper is never around to grab the tow rope when you need him, is he? (G)


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

For us worth doing federal documentation
First. Can be declared as a residence so tax benefits 
Second easier to trace if stolen or hijacked
Third easier to insure. 
Forth easier interaction with other countries c/w state registration when cruising 
Easier to sell to US citizens when time comes or take loan against if need arises

Thought to use Marshall I. But end of day to much hassle


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Would mention when cruising US citizens on US boat easiest


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

outbound said:


> Thought to use Marshall I. But end of day to much hassle


I want to sail to the Marshall Islands to properly think it over.  They're on the coconut milk run, no?


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

outbound said:


> First. Can be declared as a residence so tax benefits


A vessel can be a residence for tax purposes without being federally documented.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

It is my understanding that if a vessel is imported and registered in a country other than the US, the vessel must be undocumented and the document must be surrendered to the CG. She can not carry both.
It is common to find people importing and registering vessels to Caribbean countries, and last time I checked into it in St. Lucia, I had to undocument the vessel in the process.
Bahamian registry is only a port of convenience registry, as the tax and safety laws are significantly more lax than in countries such as the UK and US. Several of the cruise ships are registered in the Bahamas at this time.
I had a SF boat which I operated in the Bahamas as a business. It had duty paid and was permitted to operate in the Bahamas, but she remained a documented US vessel, so my return to the US after the endeavor was problem free. It did increase the value of the vessel to anyone wishing to return her to the Bahamas as a business venture. I can see no real advantage to giving up your US document and it will severely devalue the boat for an American buyer.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Capta that's the point. You've walk the walk not just talked the talk. Also US, Brit and Aussie crew on boat pita C/w all US crew on us boat. Yes, you maybe targeted as a US boat but on a day to day it's easier.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

outbound said:


> Capta that's the point. You've walk the walk not just talked the talk. Also US, Brit and Aussie crew on boat pita C/w all US crew on us boat. Yes, you maybe targeted as a US boat but on a day to day it's easier.


I'm sorry but I haven't a clue what you are trying to say.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Just for a US citizen at the end of the day being federally documented makes life easier. If you have a dirt house in a high tax state given you can pick any home port you want just pick a no tax or low tax state. Downside is boat has very limited access to your home state before tax applies.
In our summer cruising starting point of R.I. most owners are from Connecticut or Massachusetts. These states were stupid. How much tax they got from taxing boats they lost whereas R.I. gets income, sales and real estate taxes from taxing all the people who work on boats. R.I. has a flourishing pleasure boat industry. Surrounding states do not.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Out..... You are right about RI's tax competitiveness. Marina, restaurants, marine vendors, all packed in RI. We have multiple owners in our marina from Canada as well. Same reason. 

Just to be clear for the OP, sales and use taxes only apply to jurisdictions in which one physically places the vessel. Your hailport neither drives tax liability, nor prevents it. If the state one chooses as a hailport, does have a tax, you might receive a letter from them asking you to prove you don't owe it, but that's simple to do, if you have mooring contracts elsewhere. BTDT.

All our Narragansett Bay neighbors do not have to pay their home state/country's taxes, because they are physically in RI. However, just putting a RI hailport does nothing to avoid takes, if they take it elsewhere.


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## sherb (Jan 16, 2016)

Thanks for the good info so far. In review, and under some alternative scenarios moving forward, other questions arise. 

Already Bahama registered (reg number on lifelines), planning to send in my USCG bill of sale and documentation forms, home port will be City, NC (current residency), then fly US flag. The boat has been USCG documented, is current, and has been for quite some time (Abstract of Title), therefor was never undocumented w USCG. 

Under the above scenario, will USCG and US custom entry/exit officials be concerned with sub state registrations, even if Bahamas. Linked databases? When re-entry into Bahamas, w registration number on lifelines, hoping to prevent the $300 permit, as this is why the boat was imported to the Bahamas in the first place, will there be potential issues? When entry to US, will customs see my Bahamian registration number and infer/question Bahamian registration? 

Is there an argument for not documenting the boat with the USCG, especially if we plan to spend the majority of the year in Bahamas or south. Have any of you heard of people US documenting and Bahama registering, as might have been suggested above, as a temporary working boat that might return to states? I am not super concerned with US customs giving me trouble as long as I can legally defend my position, and again wont spend much time there. Not planning to be in the US for more than 180 days. Sorry if some of this redundant, just trying to probe and gain additional clarity.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Have you talked to anyone at the USCG National Documentation Center or the Bahamian Maritime Authority? Poking around on the latter's website, it does reference "foreign owned" vessels. However, that may mean you as a foreigner, not that the boat is foreign owned. It further goes on to talk about how liens can be filed against a Bahamian Registered vessels, which would mean it was a form of title. No way you can hold title to the same property in two different countries. 

Well, let me restate that....... no way one is supposed to. It would not surprise me if the Bahamas just took the check and didn't give a darn about whether there was another country involved. I'm certain the USCG doesn't have that kind of attitude.

The finer details to your question, I do not know.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

We are in the states for less than 1/2 y. Still document in US pay cruising permit(s) and move on. We have imported the boat to BVI just to escape the hassle when going in and out.


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