# VHF Radio in the cockpit



## dvuyxx (Jun 23, 2009)

So our 35' has a vhf radio mounted in the cockpit and one inside the cabin. The one in the cockpit is in the way, and people run into it all the time. I might relocate it to a better position, but I'm also considering just removing it entirely ... just relying on the cabin radio and my handheld VHF. 

Honestly, in the four seasons I've had this vessel, I've used it once in a non-emergency. Cell phones seem to be our primary means of communication now. 

Is there really any argument (or requirement) for keeping the radio in the cockpit?


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## marianclaire (Feb 4, 2010)

On the MC I had a base unit in the cabin and used a handheld in the cockpit. This worked fine until I got a call from another boat that the base unit would pick up but my handheld did not have the range to reply. That made me think what happens if I need to call the CG etc. I single hand and in rough conditions can not leave the helm long enough to go below and make/answer a call. I have moved my base unit to the edge of the companionway and can now use it and stay at the helm. So I think it is important to have long range radio accessible from the cockpit unless you are always only a few miles from help. Dan S/V Marian Claire


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## klem (Oct 16, 2009)

Unless your radio in the cabin is accessible from the cockpit, I would leave the one in the cockpit. Maybe you can relocate it or go to something more low profile like a ram mic.

There are many situations where having the ability to speak to someone without going below is extremely helpful. For example, if you are sailing in fog, the last thing that you want to do is go down below. Basically, any tight quarters sailing/motoring is probably a situation where going below doesn't make sense. Also, can you hear the VHF down below if you are motoring?

From a strictly safety standpoint, unless you have an EPIRB, the best way to call for help is with your VHF. There are plenty of situations where the unit may still be working but you don't want to go down below including sinking, fire, etc. I have read more than one report where the conclusion was that a distress call could have been made if the radio could have been operated from on deck.

I don't know what type of sailing you do and if you stay very close to your home marina and are in protected waters without much fog, then using a handheld in the cockpit is probably acceptable but a fixed mount as well as the handheld is always better.


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## Bartasaurus (May 7, 2012)

I suppose it's a judgement call. 

I would consider where you sail (dangers/traffic) into the equation. I would also consider if you sail with crew regularly. If you have a crew/people to work with, they can make calls while you stay on the helm, for example. So ultimately I don't think it would be irresponsible to remove the cockpit VHF provide there are no aggravating factors which suggest you keep it to be responsible (and it doesn't sound like there are).


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## Jiminri (Aug 26, 2012)

Does your cabin VHF radio have the option of adding a remote mic? When I upgraded my VHF radio (to include DSC) on my last boat I made sure I purchased one with that option. I then mounted the remote mic right near the helm. It included all the controls to change channels, volume, make an emergency call etc. I'll probably do the same thing on my new boat.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Jiminri said:


> Does your cabin VHF radio have the option of adding a remote mic? When I upgraded my VHF radio (to include DSC) on my last boat I made sure I purchased one with that option. I then mounted the remote mic right near the helm. It included all the controls to change channels, volume, make an emergency call etc. I'll probably do the same thing on my new boat.


THIS is the solution!


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## sd1953 (Mar 21, 2010)

Is this remote mike in the cockpit what they call a RAM mike?


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## Jiminri (Aug 26, 2012)

sd1953 said:


> Is this remote mike in the cockpit what they call a RAM mike?


Yup. I installed a Raymarine Ray55 and added a RayMic. But several companies make these with the RAM mic option.


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

Like Jiminri, our radio--a Standard Horizon--is mounted in a nice safe spot at the Nav Table but is connected to a wired "RAM" Mic with full functionality in the cockpit (and we have a spare RAM Mic "just in case" as they're relatively cheap). These days, there are several VHF Radios available that allow the use of a wireless RAM Mic (several in some cases) which is an improvement over ours considering what a PITA running wiring to a cockpit might be. As a back-up and for close in comm's we also have a hand held that we keep tethered to the Binnacle or to the helmsman--so it doesn't take a dive over the side although it will float. (We also have small, waterproof, individual VHF's on each safety harness just in case a crew goes for an unexpected swim during foul weather.) I find the foregoing arrangement works very well.

FWIW...


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## SawWhet (Mar 1, 2008)

In our area Saint John River NB Canada we have to communicate with the cable ferries.
Our VHF is mounted inside at nav station (Beneteau 321) with a remote full function mic
in the cockpit.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

I just ordered a Standard Horizon gx1700. It has a GPS built into it, and can accept a remote mic (RAM3). Once I get it installed, I'll make the decision about getting the RAM3 mic for the cockpit. However, such a mic should have two advantages: it will essentially give me a 25W VHF in the cockpit; and it will also give me a new "handheld" GPS receiver, that basically has unlimited battery power and is always tethered to the boat (don't ask). Of course, this particular radio also has the advantage that the GPS is already wired into it, so it's automatically integrated with the DSC.


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## Ritchard (Aug 15, 2011)

If one does choose to mount a VHF in the cockpit, Where does one put it? I had thought of getting one of those smoked covers you put over a stereo in like a ski boat, but the mic wouldn't fit in there.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

Ritchard said:


> If one does choose to mount a VHF in the cockpit, Where does one put it? I had thought of getting one of those smoked covers you put over a stereo in like a ski boat, but the mic wouldn't fit in there.


Traditionally, sailboats have had their radios in the cabin to keep them dry and safe. Nowadays, most new radios are "waterproof" (note the quotes), making it tempting to install the VHF in the cockpit. However, "waterproof" is a relative term, UV always takes its toll, and having electronics visible and somewhat accessible to every ne'er-do-well in the marina is tempting fate, IMHO.


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## macswift (Jul 30, 2012)

VHF extension speakers in the cockpit are worth having. As long as you can hear you're being called it's no big deal to go below to answer it.


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## marianclaire (Feb 4, 2010)

macswift said:


> VHF extension speakers in the cockpit are worth having. As long as you can hear you're being called it's no big deal to go below to answer it.


I respectfully disagree. A narrow channel with cross wind or current, a congested area with a bunch of Saturday afternoon six-packers "buzzing" around, following seas where controlling the boat is a full time job. The last thing I want to do is leave the cockpit. Dan S/V Marian Claire


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

If you mount a remote mic near the helm, make sure it doesn't interfere with your compass.


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## Jiminri (Aug 26, 2012)

svHyLyte said:


> These days, there are several VHF Radios available that allow the use of a wireless RAM Mic (several in some cases) which is an improvement over ours considering what a PITA running wiring to a cockpit might be. FWIW...


Thanks HyLyte! That's a great nugget of info...I've never heard of a wireless RAM Mic. I'm going to have to try to find one of those. What a great invention. Running cable is a pain but, even worse, I hate drilling holes in my boat. Nice to avoid both.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

I had the same problem of not having a fixed radio in the cockpit, but only a handheld. The cheapest solution was to buy an extension speaker, about $10 and wire it to the nav station VHF. The wire goes accross the floor and out into the cockpit, a bit messy but it also means I can take the speaker to wherever I am sleeping, normally the forward cabin.


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

RAM is sweet! I added a remote speaker out of sight in the coaming space.

Down.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

I moved my VHF to the companionway where it can be operated from inside or outside. Recently though, I've been re-thinking how I will use the radio.

I always monitor 16, because I think it's the right thing to do, but fortunately/unfortunately for me the previous owner did a great job with the antenna and wiring and I have a really long range. What that means is that in the summer I hear every Tom, Dick & Harry calling each other on the radio all day. I find that the constant radio chatter interferes with my wanting to be at one with nature, enjoy the peace and quite of sailing etc. 

What I will try next summer is have my handheld attached to my PFD and use that to monitor 16. My thinking is that I can receive all the coast guard broadcasts on this (because their antennas are on the tops of mountains) and any boat that wants to call me, or is in distress but CLOSE enough for me to actually be able to help can also be received with this radio.

Basically, I don't want to receive any transmissions (except the coast guard) that originated, say, more than 15KM away. A boat hailing me would likely be line of site, and any mayday beyond that distance is 2-3hrs motor away and I would not likely be of any help. Besides, most maydays are re-broadcast by the coast guard anyway. 

Hopefully this will reduce the unnecessary chatter, but still allow me to keep an effective radio watch. The main unit can be used for my own mayday call if needed.

MedSailor


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## asdf38 (Jul 7, 2010)

SlowButSteady said:


> I just ordered a Standard Horizon gx1700. It has a GPS built into it, and can accept a remote mic (RAM3). Once I get it installed, I'll make the decision about getting the RAM3 mic for the cockpit. However, such a mic should have two advantages: it will essentially give me a 25W VHF in the cockpit; and it will also give me a new "handheld" GPS receiver, that basically has unlimited battery power and is always tethered to the boat (don't ask). Of course, this particular radio also has the advantage that the GPS is already wired into it, so it's automatically integrated with the DSC.


I really like the integrated GPS. And of course that makes sense. Now that GPS's are in every single phone they are a cheap commodity. For $200 that's the thing to get. Too bad I bought the $120 west marine radio two years ago...



> I respectfully disagree. A narrow channel with cross wind or current, a congested area with a bunch of Saturday afternoon six-packers "buzzing" around, following seas where controlling the boat is a full time job. The last thing I want to do is leave the cockpit. Dan S/V Marian Claire


I agree with this. I hate leaving the cockpit when I don't have too. I usually have crew but often they have 0 experience which is actually worse than single handing. Especially when you're trying to show them a good time. So having as many things accessible in the cockpit is ideal and leads to less stressful sailing. My boat is small enough that I have an ok situation with the radio mounted just inside the companionway with a spot for the mic to wrap around into the cockpit. Although reaching the mic while holding the tiller is still a stretch.


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## msmith10 (Feb 28, 2009)

I'd advise against a wireless RAM mic. Battery life is dismal--4-6 hours at best. Spring for a radio and wired remote mic.


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## Jiminri (Aug 26, 2012)

msmith10 said:


> I'd advise against a wireless RAM mic. Battery life is dismal--4-6 hours at best. Spring for a radio and wired remote mic.


Bummer on that. Plus I just checked the cost. The Raymarine version runs $700 for the least expensive version.  I willing to do a lot of wiring to avoid that $$$.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

Jiminri said:


> Bummer on that. Plus I just checked the cost. The Raymarine version runs $700 for the least expensive version.  I willing to do a lot of wiring to avoid that $$$.


The Standard Horizon RAM3 is about $100, plus another $30-40 for the wiring extension kit.


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## Ritchard (Aug 15, 2011)

to answer my own question above, I may still do a cockpit radio. I have room in my enormous navpod, and I love the idea of having the full GPS/radio screen as redundant at the helm. The standard horizon radios are only 3-1/2 inches deep.


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

Ritchard said:


> to answer my own question above, I may still do a cockpit radio. I have room in my enormous navpod, and I love the idea of having the full GPS/radio screen as redundant at the helm. The standard horizon radios are only 3-1/2 inches deep.


I'm sure you'll check the Compass Safe Distance beforehand, No?


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## Ritchard (Aug 15, 2011)

I realize it's heresy, but I never even look at the compass. I am a GPS man. I know, you respond, "But what happens if the GPS system goes out?" To which I then reply "if the GPS system goes out that probably means all out war, so I have worse problems to think about."

If I really needed the compass, I am sure I could switch off the radio and use the one in the cabin.

Okay further to that, would a radio give off enough heat that keeping it in the navpod would kill anything?


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## asdf38 (Jul 7, 2010)

Ritchard said:


> I realize it's heresy, but I never even look at the compass. I am a GPS man. I know, you respond, "But what happens if the GPS system goes out?" To which I then reply "if the GPS system goes out that probably means all out war, so I have worse problems to think about."
> 
> If I really needed the compass, I am sure I could switch off the radio and use the one in the cabin.
> 
> Okay further to that, would a radio give off enough heat that keeping it in the navpod would kill anything?


The VHF only generates significant heat when transmitting and that's just in short bursts. Also consider all the VHF's mounted in the nav station jammed in with lots of other electrics. The navpod (on the cockpit I assume) is better from a heat perspective than that.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

I guess that a station at hand from the one that is handling the boat makes all the sense if he sails solo or have not a crew that can operate the radio when needed. I can see some occasions where that would be almost indispensable, or at least very useful, like when you have all the hands controlling the boat and don't fell safe to leave cockpit with the boat on autopilot and go behind to talk at the radio...and that sometimes take time. Sure, you can put down the sails, or have a reef, but that is a lot of trouble.

Regarding the occasions, I give you a recent example: Sailing at night with wind and going fast with a big ship that I was seeing constantly on the same bearing regarding my boat and as all know, probably on a Collision course. I have asked my wife to call the ship and ask them if they were seeing us. It took some minutes, they replied yes they were seeing us...and changed course

I want to point out another system that can be used as a communication device replacing an outside conventional station: the modern no wires remote controls for autopilot have a function that (if the radio is a modern one from the same brand) permits to use it as a remote control station, I mean to hear and to speak, and has the thing is very small and normally is around your neck, it will not by an obstacle for nobody.

My boat come with one but I have to say that with so many new things and gadgets to learn how to use properly I have not yet used it (just tried it) but I guess that with time to get used to it, it will be a nice and useful equipment.

Regards

Paulo


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## macswift (Jul 30, 2012)

marianclaire said:


> I respectfully disagree. A narrow channel with cross wind or current, a congested area with a bunch of Saturday afternoon six-packers "buzzing" around, following seas where controlling the boat is a full time job. The last thing I want to do is leave the cockpit. Dan S/V Marian Claire


Point taken, but in that situation the radio would have to wait if I was on my tod. But my days of single-handed sailing are behind me, so my crew would deal with the radio. It would probably be one of her mates calling anyway...


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Ritchard said:


> I realize it's heresy, but I never even look at the compass. I am a GPS man. I know, you respond, "But what happens if the GPS system goes out?" To which I then reply "if the GPS system goes out that probably means all out war, so I have worse problems to think about."
> 
> ...


Hummm! If the GPS goes out you should rely on a back up system that you should have, at least the sail you make is not a local one.

Some radio stations come with an integrated GPS, even some hand held radio VHF have one, not to mention watches or cellphones. It is not expensive to have a back up system and everybody should have one.

Regards

Paulo


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## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

Ritchard said:


> I realize it's heresy, but I never even look at the compass. I am a GPS man. I know, you respond, "But what happens if the GPS system goes out?" To which I then reply "if the GPS system goes out that probably means all out war, so I have worse problems to think about."
> 
> If I really needed the compass, I am sure I could switch off the radio and use the one in the cabin.
> 
> Okay further to that, would a radio give off enough heat that keeping it in the navpod would kill anything?


Consider... the main real-world problem with electronic nav aids is not the "sky part" but your own on-board part....
We have had enough problems with our "Low QC" Garmin that I would never deleberately compromise the basic compass-and-paper-charts part of the equation, and I do indeed use the chart plotter when under way -- also our trusty old iBook running GPSNavX.

If you feel the need to place magnetic stuff close to the steering compass, just remember to remove it FIRST when it dies. Once you dismount it and put it away, inside the cabin, your steering compass should be fine.

Of course, your compass has been swung and corrected, and a deviation card prepared, right?


And your paper charts are on-board and not more than ten years out of date, right?
:laugher

And, back to the "door we came in"...... I have done a recent delivery on a boat with a StandardHorizon combo-vhf/ais. It was way cool.


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## Ritchard (Aug 15, 2011)

I have:

usually 4 or 5 GPS devices on board

and 

No idea when the compass was last swung

and

of course no deviation card.

and a good set of paper charts that I do find very useful for global views when using the chart plotter up close.

All that having been said, my sailing is primarily the Great Lakes version of coastal sailing. It's pretty hard to get really lost.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

We have this Garmin wirelss Mic at the helm and it is invaluable. Even works in the dinghy up to about 1/2 mile away from the mothership. Uses the 25 watt main antanena and gets 10-12 hours battery life ( dpends on transmission usagenormally. Charger is in cabon next to main VHF.

Had a Uniden Wirelss before.

Garmin 010-11189-01


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

OK,, I think "I" have the absolute coolest remote VHF handheld for the cockpit. The primary cabin VHF is a Simrad RS25 (25 Watt output) and it comes with a Simrad (AHK05) cockpit remote handheld that is tied into the RS25 via BlueTooth! During it's "off" hours it sits in a charging stand. It is crispy clear. It works flawlessly, love it! Simrad is really stepping up IMHO. 

Additionally it's DSC button ties into the DSC system on the RS25, very cool.

I should test to see how far it will work from a dinghy, next test on the list.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Simrad and the Garmin we have are the only wireless available right now


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

The Garmin looks great. If I did not have a complete Simrad end to end solution I might go with the Garmin instead. Garmin, IMHO, is making the biggest move in the marine electronics industry. Also I see that the Garmin remote supports three different Garmin cabin based radios. Garmin seems to also be using BlueTooth, which I am a big fan of.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

kellysails said:


> The Garmin looks great. If I did not have a complete Simrad end to end solution I might go with the Garmin instead. Garmin, IMHO, is making the biggest move in the marine electronics industry. Also I see that the Garmin remote supports three different Garmin cabin based radios. Garmin seems to also be using BlueTooth, which I am a big fan of.


Be warned. A good friend of mine was sailing in the Swiftsure race this year and found himself in fog, with shipping and race boats all around, when suddenly his chartplotter, GPS and AIS all died at once. They were all integrated and when one went down it took them all with it.

Personally I prefer multiple stand alone units that do NOT talk to each other. If one dies, it's less likely to take the rest down with it. I am willing to forgo the slick features of integration in favor of redundancy. But then again, I'm probably an anachronism because I've never bought an apple product.....

MedSailor


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> Personally I prefer multiple stand alone units that do NOT talk to each other. If one dies, it's less likely to take the rest down with it. I am willing to forgo the slick features of integration in favor of redundancy-MedSailor


We have Raymarine radar, chartplotter, AIS and ST60 instruments. They are all networked and operate all under stand alone mode also if you wish to conserve power. Just because you network them doesnt prevent you from having them available in stand alone.

Its an advantage to be able to overlay the radar and AIS on the chartplotter in some situations or even have them in side by side orientation on the same screen.

Dave


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## cherev (Sep 6, 2000)

I once saw a rig where a speaker and a mike used a bundled cable from a nav-station radio. You had to swing down to the station to change channels, but could otherwise monitor and comm from behind the wheel. 

But a hand-held works just find for bridge tenders and harbor masters.


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## Me and Boo (Oct 29, 2011)

The PO cutout a small cubby to locate the autopilot out of the way. I mounted the RAM next to it. Due to size it sticks out, but I like having it close by.


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## Flybyknight (Nov 5, 2005)

Jiminri said:


> Does your cabin VHF radio have the option of adding a remote mic? When I upgraded my VHF radio (to include DSC) on my last boat I made sure I purchased one with that option. I then mounted the remote mic right near the helm. It included all the controls to change channels, volume, make an emergency call etc. I'll probably do the same thing on my new boat.


That's the way to do it.
I did the same with my ICOM and a hard wired "Commandmic"


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

Since basic 25 watt VHF radios are inexpensive, wouldn't it be a better idea to have two modestly priced radios....one at nav station and one near/at helm? This way, if the radio itself failed, then there is a back up. One or both of these could have DSC, but the two should be less expensive than some of the fancy remote mike options.


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## dvuyxx (Jun 23, 2009)

Can anyone tell me how long the "telephone" cord is on the Standard Horizon RAM3 remote?


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## Midnightflyer (Dec 2, 2011)

> Honestly, in the four seasons I've had this vessel, I've used it once in a non-emergency. Cell phones seem to be our primary means of communication now.
> 
> "Cell phones seem to be our primary means of communication now".If you need help, with a cell phone only one person will hear you, with the VHF anyone within the range of the radio can hear you. They can come to help you or relay a message. Cell phones can't. My 2 cents worth.


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## dvuyxx (Jun 23, 2009)

I am in no way proposing to remove VHF capabilities from my vessel. No matter what I will have a fixed 25w radio in the cabin. I was just debating whether or not I needed the second one in the cockpit (which is usually in the way). Additionally, I have a 3-Watt waterproof VHF.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> Since basic 25 watt VHF radios are inexpensive, wouldn't it be a better idea to have two modestly priced radios....one at nav station and one near/at helm? This way, if the radio itself failed, then there is a back up. One or both of these could have DSC, but the two should be less expensive than some of the fancy remote mike optionsNCC320


.

Thats an option 2 of course, but then some have limited room or dont wnat the added clutter. Most wired Ram Mikes are pretty cheap actually. If you get a second VHF would you also put a second antanaae on your mast?

The advantage of the wireless for me is that you arent teathered. Kind of like the advatage of a mobile phone in the house. I have a couple handhelds also. One for backup and one for the ditchbag.


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## bobnpaula (Nov 17, 2008)

agree with Jiminri and others.... VHF with DSC at nav station, RAM mike in cockpit. Works for us!


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## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

chef2sail said:


> .
> 
> Thats an option 2 of course, but then some have limited room or dont wnat the added clutter. Most wired Ram Mikes are pretty cheap actually. If you get a second VHF would you also put a second antanaae on your mast?
> 
> The advantage of the wireless for me is that you arent teathered. Kind of like the advatage of a mobile phone in the house. I have a couple handhelds also. One for backup and one for the ditchbag.


As to antenna, with a radio at helm and also below at nav desk, they could share the same antenna with a manual switch operated from the nav desk (leave normal position for antenna to helm radio, switch only when you choose to use at nav desk). Or a second antenna. Or a second antenna that is mounted on rail. The only advantage of the 2 radio option is that you get a backup to the radio. With the one radio and RAM mikes, if the radio goes, you have no radio. Might be an advantage for those who go offshore and are subject to adverse conditions for extended periods.

I personally have 25 watt radio, mast top antenna at nav desk, and handheld portable at helm or with me, as appropriate. Don't use either often.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

IMO you need to be able to hear and operate the VHF in the cockpit (and monitor 16, which many people don't). 
Hearing CG securities (sp?) can be helpful! While sailing mid day, we heard a Securtitie concerning two 60 foot Dead Heads (floating pilings) near our marina. Sailing back at dusk, we spotted the dead heads directly in our path. I know for a fact, we would not have noticed them if we hadn't been warned, and would have T boned them, doing about 5 knots! 
In addition, I have come to the aid of several Skippers in my area because I heard their communications with the CG on 16. I hope others will do the same for me if I ever am in need. You can't respond if you don't know a problem exists. BTW...If you assume the CG will come to your rescue, one might wonder why the aforementioned dead heads were still floating around in the bay at Six PM, when the CG was aware of them at Noon! Not judging, just saying that often we are on our own out there. 
So, no matter how you do it (and no, a hand held doesn't count IMO), you need to to be able to hear and use the VHF from the cockpit. I moved my VHF from the middle of the Salon to inside the companionway for just this reason. Search my posts to see how I did it if interested (no easy task on my boat!).


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Most problems occuring from "broken" vhf occur because of bad or loose connections to the antennae. We have a spare emergency one on board.

Dave


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

To be able to hear the VHF in the cockpit I wired in an external speaker. Have a handheld VHF as well outside. The fixed mount inside is always on.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

chef2sail said:


> We have this Garmin wirelss Mic at the helm and it is invaluable. Even works in the dinghy up to about 1/2 mile away from the mothership. Uses the 25 watt main antanena and gets 10-12 hours battery life ( dpends on transmission usagenormally. Charger is in cabon next to main VHF.Had a Uniden Wirelss before.


I assumed the mic was also a speaker, but saw a speaker was requrired for it to act as an "intercom". How do you hear it when used as a VHF remote?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> I assumed the mic was also a speaker, but saw a speaker was requrired for it to act as an "intercomL124C


If you wanted to set up an intercom below to the cabin from the cockpit you need a remote speaker. You cant talk to the VHF stationary unit from the remote as it uses the stationary unit. We didnt set this up...I just yell downstairs. When you get reception back you can hear it on both speakers ( wireless and fixed similtaneuosly) Does this make sense?

The wireless has a good speaker in it.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I think Panbo was recently talking about a totally wireless cockpit unit which of course means it will have to be recharged somehow anyway.

But with the way Bluetooth has spread in the last couple of years, I'd have to ask how stupid the marine vhf industry was if they didn't have a dozen Bluetooth-based remote head unit solutions by the end of the year. Which makes the "hard" part of the connection into a $5 chip and a ruggedized Android phone, something the Chinese can put on the market for $100 retail.

I still like a h/t as the "cockpit mic", the "TOO MUCH STUFF" rule just seems to kick in if I think about a remote head for a new VHF below.


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## asdf38 (Jul 7, 2010)

For what it's worth when I think bluetooth I think about the buggy, unreliable and underachieving protocol that I've never gotten to work reliably for anything but a mouse. Also the protocol some engineer friends of mine scorn after developing a product that used it to connect to iPhones and Android phones. 

Unless the device absolutely needs to connect to PC's or phones I'd rather just have them use the cheap underlying 2.4ghz radio technology that's now a commodity for the reasons Hello says and make/debug their own protocol. But maybe things have gotten better.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

There have been a lot of different variations in BT. From the implementations used in the early Palms that were buggy as all getout, to the current 4th generation software which tends to be rock-solid. Although of course that varies with the vendor. If some of those products are poorly _engineered_, well, your engineer friends might consider that BT is only one aspect of that failure. (G)

Making their own protocol? If a decades-old consortium hasn't already gotten it right, how buggy will a new one be? With what kind of costs to recover before it can be implemented, and what kind of proprietary and non-interchangeable hardware and software, driving costs up tenfold again?

Why build a better horse and carriage, when you can just hop on and ride? Don't like BT? OK, there's WiFi, WirelessUSB, and a host of others on the shelf. BT, with standards for 10-meter and 100-meter range, and heavy support for simple audio devices, would just seem like a good place to start. Raytheon's WiFi networked instrument systems, another.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

You guys have covered pretty much everything. Fixed mount at the Nav desk with Ram in the cockpit for us as well. 
This also allows you to use your eyes when speaking with or assisting the CG. 
I had the experience of helping a disabled boat (lost steering for some reason), he was giving the CG bad information and the CG could not find him. 
We were in the area and saw a boat that looked to be disabled about 3 miles form our location; no sails up and boobing in relativity big seas miles form any shoreline. 
I made contact with the CG on VHF-16 knowing they were looking for him. As soon as I made contact with the CG the disabled boat shot off a flare confirming he was in fact the boat the CG was looking for. Had I not been in the cockpit I probably would have missed the flare.
RAM mic in cockpit allows you to see what's going on around you while communicating.

One more point, they can be used in intercom mode. Now on a small boat this may not seem like an advantage, but I can tell you, it is a real fun way to play a trick on your wife . Hello, Hello, sailing vessel Julianna do you read me? 
Sleepy wife on her 4-hour off watch comes crawling up from down below. "Did you hear that?" After she realizes what has happened she mutters something to the affect of, "I'm going to kill you.".


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## asdf38 (Jul 7, 2010)

Hello, like I said, for what it's worth (perhaps not much) Bluetooth scares me if it's inserted in a critical application (honestly wifi does too but wifi in practice has gotten pretty damn reliable). 

To your point, consider the reliability of an all-in-one Garmin chartplotter versus a PC running Garmin nav software with a USB GPS. Even though the custom chartplotter requires Garmin to "reinvent the wheel" for lots of functionality Windows would otherwise take care of, because they can control the whole thing the result is more reliable. I think we'd both rather rely on the all-in-one.


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

MedSailor said:


> Be warned. A good friend of mine was sailing in the Swiftsure race this year and found himself in fog, with shipping and race boats all around, when suddenly his chartplotter, GPS and AIS all died at once. They were all integrated and when one went down it took them all with it.
> 
> Personally I prefer multiple stand alone units that do NOT talk to each other. If one dies, it's less likely to take the rest down with it. I am willing to forgo the slick features of integration in favor of redundancy. But then again, I'm probably an anachronism because I've never bought an apple product.....
> 
> MedSailor


Yup, hear you on that. I keep a couple of gps standby's around and always have a hard copy chart for where I am cruising. I don't have a backup for AIS but I should put more thought to that. AIS is invaluable.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

sailortjk1 said:


> Fixed mount at the Nav desk with Ram in the cockpit for us as well. This also allows you to use your eyes when speaking with or assisting the CG.
> I had the experience of helping a disabled boat (lost steering for some reason), he was giving the CG bad information and the CG could not find him.
> We were in the area and saw a boat that looked to be disabled about 3 miles form our location; no sails up and boobing in relativity big seas miles form any shoreline.
> I made contact with the CG on VHF-16 knowing they were looking for him. As soon as I made contact with the CG the disabled boat shot off a flare confirming he was in fact the boat the CG was looking for. Had I not been in the cockpit I probably would have missed the flare.
> RAM mic in cockpit allows you to see what's going on around you while communicating.


Well said. Pretty much answers the OP's question. If the disabled boat was communicating via cell phone, or you hadn't been monitoring 16 and heard the communication in the cockpit (if thats where you were), you probably would have been oblivious to his situation. In big seas, the shoreline might not have been "miles from him" for long!


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

asdf38 said:


> Hello, like I said, for what it's worth (perhaps not much) Bluetooth scares me if it's inserted in a critical application (honestly wifi does too but wifi in practice has gotten pretty damn reliable).
> 
> To your point, consider the reliability of an all-in-one Garmin chartplotter versus a PC running Garmin nav software with a USB GPS. Even though the custom chartplotter requires Garmin to "reinvent the wheel" for lots of functionality Windows would otherwise take care of, because they can control the whole thing the result is more reliable. I think we'd both rather rely on the all-in-one.


Hmmm, not sure I would trust my life more on a mediocre Operating System built for the masses "Windows" rather than a purpose built firmware specialized in navigation. Far fewer code paths to QA in purpose built specialized firmware, and no blue screens. IMHO.

Additionally, the biggest issues with BlueTooth is when there are a myriad of devices trying to interconnect with slightly different BT implementations. Now if you have a fixed solution, such as a single remote device connecting to a single end system from the same manufacturer, like Garmin devices to Garmin devices and Simrad devices to Simrad devices; it is very easy to ensure the correct matching and pairing work flawlessly. When Joe Blows BT implementation is of one flavor (chipset) is trying to reliably pair with Random Rons BT implementation (who uses a different chip set) problems can occur. Testing and validating specific devices is the only way to make BT resilient. Again IMHO.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Trust my life? Um, thinking of the shutdown on Millenium Falken. Or Independence Day. (G)

No, thank you, I don't consider recreational-boat navionics to be critical systems. Convenient, yes. Handy, yes, Mission critical or trusting my life? No, not to any of them. I've seen GPS go to lunch, independent of the hardware. And LORAN insist that wormholes existed. WIndows BSODs, Android goes out to lunch, and anyone who has used a Mac long enough knows the system bomb. Oh, sure, it reboots quicky, meanwhile it still crashed.

If I'm relying on electronics, I try to be that mythical "prudent mariner" and make sure there's at least two different systems singing the same choir song. And if there's only one, I try to make sure my eyes are out of the boat and I've got something else to rely on.

Trust my life? To some duplicitous silicon critter oftne made by and for exploited slave labor and robber barons? Yeah, I know, they only WISH they could be robber barons.

No, I trust my life to quantum physics, which gives me _very _long odds that the hull will not simply become porous and allow the ocean to come in without warning.


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