# Best Centerboard Designed Boats



## tsenator (Nov 6, 2000)

I see a lot of people discussing centerboarders which I have always been very sttracted to due to their capability to go gunkholing but still be able to drop the board down and really increase stability and windward ability. But I have no experience with these boats. I have never owned one or sailed on one.

Here are my questions
1) How are the centerboards raised and lowered? Is it hard to do? Do they all swing down on a pivot or do some slide down (like a daggerboard)?

2) Are there different designs? What is there to look out for ? What is the maintanence? Will they last the life of the boat? Are they troublesome?

3) Can I sail with the centerboard partially down if I want?

4) What are the best designed Centerboard boats out there? Which ones are the boats that are to be avoided? Why don''t we see more boats manufactured with swing centerboards?...It seems like the ideal configuration for cruisers that like "thin water" anchorages.

5) Any other comments?...Pro''s Con''s


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

To answer your questions:

1) How are the centerboards raised and lowered? Is it hard to do? Do they all swing down on a pivot or do some slide down (like a daggerboard)?

Most centerboards either have a small winch that tensions a cable that raises the centerboard. These winches vary from trailer type cable winches (electric and manual) to normal sheet winches in which case there is often a block and tackle on the end of the centerboard penant. The centerboard cable either acts through a tube that is sealed at the bottom and or deck or through a variety of pull rod designs that pass through a packing gland. Centerboards are usually not too hard to operate but drop keels because of their weight take a fair amount of cranking to pull up and down. 


Most cruising centerboard boats have pivoting centerboards (just weighted enough to cause them to be heavier than water) or Swing Keels (which pivot and are weighted significantly enought to help act as part of the boat''s ballast.)

There are daggerboard boats out there but those are mostly small boats. There is a current trend in small race boats to have a dagger board with a bulb on the end. These are very efficient sailing wise but are much more difficult to raise and lower and really cannot be partially raised lowered under sail. 

2) Are there different designs? What is there to look out for ? What is the maintanence? Will they last the life of the boat? Are they troublesome?

They vary very widely in design, quality and execution from crudely cast iron swing keels, or a rough cut steel plate, to nicely fabricated lead keels, to nicely fabricated fiberglass foils, to crudely fabricated glass over plywood. In my mind, The best cruising boat set up is a keel/centerboard where these is a small shoal draft keel that the centerboard emerges from the bottom of. When fully retracted the centerboard is wholely cased in the trunk and is not exposed below the bottom of the short keel. This design gives up a little performance but offers the most protection for the centerboard and represents a good compromise in performance.

If performance is your thing than a daggerboard with a bulb is a better option. (I am thinking of building a small daysailor overnighter to putter about with and will probably do that kind of a CB.) 

There is more maintenance. The centerboard penants, winches and packing glands need maintenance. The pivot bushings and penant attachment points need regular maintenance and at some point replacement. There are often flaps across the centerboard slot that need periodic replacement. Centerboard often have minor damage to their fairing materials and barrier coats as the seem to be used as a depth sounder more often and there is some wear of centerboard against the side of the trunk. Even painting the Centerboard is a little harder because the boat needs to be high enough to let the whole board down. 

Whether they last the life of the boat depends on maintenance and how the original board was constructed.

3) Can I sail with the centerboard partially down if I want?

Most boats can be sailed with the board partially down. One nice thing about a centerboard is that it can be partially raised or lowered, i.e. shifted in position to balance the helm in heavy air or even raised some to allow more leeway in heavy air reducing heeling. For most keel centerboarders the best performance is with the keel down for beating and close to beam reaching, partially raised when broad reaching and all the way up on a run.

4) What are the best designed Centerboard boats out there? Which ones are the boats that are to be avoided? Why don''t we see more boats manufactured with swing centerboards?...It seems like the ideal configuration for cruisers that like "thin water" anchorages.

I don''t have time to do a good and bad list this morning but keel/centerboard boats are more expenive to build than their fixed keel sisters, expecially in sizes over about 25 feet.They require more ballast and more hardware to work well. Most people seem to be willing to accept a wing or bulb keel.

5) Any other comments?...Pro''s Con''s 

Keel centerboards give up a fair amount of performance over a well designed fin keel but if well designed generally offer better performance than other forms of shoal draft keels including wing and bulbs. They are harder to build properly and harder to maintain, but offer a lot of advantages to a cruiser.

Jeff


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## soverel28 (May 8, 2001)

I own a 28ft Soverel(1965), it has a long shoal draft keel in which a centerboard swings out.It uses a gear to crank it up and down. This is a straight shot to the centerboard trunk through a stainless tube (this mounts from cb trunk to below cockpit floor above waterline).It is not super easy or fast to raise. The cable should be checked or replaced every few years I would guess. My centerboard is lead incased in fiberglass. I know this because the cb was left all the way down at dock(it should never be that far down)and the boat sat on it at low very low tide and bent it in half, the repair was not easy! Anyway I love my boat I can steer the boat with cb adjustments, all but down wind. It is nice to singlehand I can make sail changes or go below without having to hand steer. These are the good point of this boat I have no clue about others boats.
Paul B


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I think the keel/centerboard designed, as mentioned above, is the best CB configuration. This design is used by Hinckley, Bristol, Little Harbor, Cheoy Lee (Pedrick 41) and Alden to name just a few builders. Many K/CB boats can be sailed equally as well with the board up as down, on almost all points of sail. Downwind there is the advantage of having the boat up, upwind, having the board down can be a significant advantage. 

I would say (since I just got one) that the most beautiful and well designed K/CB boat of all time is the Hood 38 built by Wauquiez. Sisterships were built by Bristol (38.8) and Little Harbor (Ted Hood''s company). She is a delight to sail, very well thought out, well built and nicely finished. I could not be happier. Thus, I will recommend to you Ted Hood''s K/CB designs.

Perhaps one of the most significant advantages, aside from the obvious ability to sail into skinny water, is the wonderful tracking ability of these boats. This is not to be taken lightly if you plan to do some distance cruising. I can take my hands off the helm for long periods of time, not even bother to lock it in, and have the boat track on any point of sail. 

To me, with a K/CB, you have all the advantages of a full keel boat and a fin keel boat with none of the disadvantages of either. 

Maintenance is really very minimal and does not occur on even an annual basis. Just keep inspecting the cable when the boat is pulled. As to the placement of the winch for the cable, there are several different designs. Some use lines to the cockpit, some have a winch with cable in or just out of the cockpit. 

I hope this helps.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Regarding the stability question in the original post, as Jeff says most boards are only slightly heavier than water, and so do not significantly lower the center of gravity when in the lowered position. There is a school of thought which says that a centerboarder is more stable with the board raised in heavy weather; as Jeff mentioned this allows more leeway. In theory this reduces the chance of the boat "tripping" over her keel. I personally am a great fan of centerboarders. Partially raising a front pivoted board moves the center of lateral resistance aft, thereby reducing weather helm, and is very useful in balancing a boat.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Regarding the question on the weight of the CB. I believe the CB on the Hood 38 is 800 lbs. A friend with a Cheoy Lee Pedrick 41 told me his CB was also very heavy. 

Hope this helps


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## doublee44 (Apr 19, 2002)

I''ve had a C&C 40 for 21 years. She is now for sale and is a keel centerboard. The board weighs about 700# and is pulled with a winch and a five part tackle connected to a cable, which pulls the board.
We seldom use the board, unless we are trying to make a point and avoid two tacks. With the board down, she will really put her nose into the wind. With the board down she draws 8''6" and up 4''8", so she goes where the seven foot keels can''t. Are you interested in a boat?


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## tsenator (Nov 6, 2000)

Doublee44,

Well I''m not in the market to purchase a boat right now, but I am doing "Mental Research" on what Features/Types of boats I would be looking to get as my "next boat". If I was to get a next boat I would be looking for one to cruise extensively down to the "Islands" (carribean, Central/South America et.al.) And I am known to be a crusing type sailor that loves to gunkhole. I have a newer Catalina 36MKII with a wing keel that I love dearly. I think it is an awesome boat for extensive coastal cruising with periodic juants offshore. No boat is perfect for all situations and though it would be a fine boat for what I described above, I feel there are a few features that I would like to have that would make it even "more ideal" (everything is relative.....and so are the costs).

I am slightly enamored on a keel/centerboard design as it give the best compromise in what I like to do. I am not "super" concerned on the extra bit of maintenance needed for the centerboard, just as long as the design was a "decent" one. Thus the questions on how some are raised and lowered....(Though, I''m still not sure which is the "best" design).

So on my "next boat" I might be looking for a keel/Centerboard configuration if it was well designed and less likely to keep me hanging (Pun intended). 

And I am starting to become interested in possibly a fractional rig as per some of the reasons Dave_H has mentioned (if done properly easier to depower main and smaller headsail to deal with.....yes I am listening Dave) But I am still not overlooking Masthead Rigs for their sturdiness and simplicity and if done correctly (Right sized sails, lines to cockpit, etc, etc) they can be able to be singlehanded well by a competent skipper......


I think the C&C is a nice boat. Is it listed somewhere on the net?, just for a quick look...;-)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Ahoy Jeff_H,

To your point of "small race boats with daggerboards with bulb attached", do you know how this type fares in a grounding?

Art

(I''m assuming a boat such as a Melges 24, Ultimate 20,etc.)


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Properly designed and all other things being equal a daggerboard with a bulb should do as well or better than fin keeler. The only example that I know of was a Melges 24 that took to the ground at speeds thought to be in excess of 8 knots. The description that I heard was that she hit hard and with the large chute up, spun and took a hard down which carried her over the hump. Damage was described as cosmetic. 

I don''t think that is a representative fair sampling of the concept. I suspect that depending on the design of the boat and the nature of the grounding there could easily be more extensive damage to the drop keel or its scabboard. 

Modern daggerboards with bulbs are next to non-existent in larger production boats but they are a concept that I would love to see more often. It is comparatively easy to design a structure that could absorb the engery of a major impact. It might include a large rubber impact block that could take buffer most of the force of impact rather than deliver the loads into a rigid structure. Longer than usual leverage into the boat perhaps with SS tubes sliding an a SS scabboard could also reduce the loads felt by the boat. I had designed a quick release lock down system that would permit the keel to be released under pressure allowing it to be retracted when aground but which would automatically engage if the boat took a knockdown, locking the keel so that it can''t retract due to gravity. If I were wealthy enough to build a custom boat (which is not likely in this lifetime) a lifting dagger board with a bulb would be high on my list. 

Jeff


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## trecksail (Dec 2, 2004)

I own a Soverel 36R built in 1967. It has a full keel with the centerboard stowed in the keel. The board on these are solid brass. I read somwhere that it was thousands of pounds of brass and I don't doubt it as it's HUGE in all dimension. I don't believe there are going to be many boats built today like this. She sails like a dream. My draft with the brass up is 4.25' and down 9'. And 9 feet of thousands of pounds of brass hanging under my boat makes me feel real comfortable in rough weather. Sometimes it feels like she can sail straight into the wind with the brass down. Brass up she can take me into shallow water where many 26' boats have trouble. I will admit that I'd love to throw a power winch on her as that much weight obviously takes a serious arm to raise. And sorry, but the plan is for her never to be for sale again. If you look around for a Soverel, keep in mind that Bill Soverel ( the dad ) designed and built ocean cruisers through the late 60's. The son, Mark designed and built them from the 70's on as racers. Not that there's anything wrong with Mark's boats. He also built them well and from what I read his Soverel 33 owned the races for many years and sometimes still do.


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## Peter Nilsson (Jan 13, 2018)

Must be Viva sailing Yachts (Sasanka) from Poland. Off course I`m owner of a VIVA 600.
Very suitable for Swedish Lakes and Channels.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Currently my favorite centerboard design is Boreal. They start in the 40’s and go into the 60’s. As regards daggerboards AKA lifting keels the B50 is nice but the K&M besteavers in the mid 50s comes close to my idea of an ideal cruising boat. 
For older boats thought the Ted Hood centerboarders were cooler than dirt. Was surprised how well they pointed. Sailed a B40multiple times in the Marion Bermuda. Hated listening to the board slap in light air and she was wet in a seaway.
More than once have seen debris get into the slot and jam it. On one occasion it was gravel and the boat needed to hauled to clear it. Hydraulics maybe better than a pendant/winch set up depending on design when dealing with bigger centerboards Changing out a pendant can be real hard.
Just my thoughts. If you go with a lifting keel play attention to how it will handle a grounding. There are some very ingenious ways that have been thought out to handle this mishap.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

We have a board on here. We draw 6 and change with it up and 10 and change with it down. I was told by the PO that he had added about 2500# to the board, but I have no way of confirming this until we pull it out.
With 6' of draft, our board isn't so much about leeway as it is trim and comfort. It definitely stabilizes the boat (underway *or* at anchor, by the way) which helps the boat sail better. Alternating the depth of the board (visualize an upside down shark fin) moves the center of lateral resistance a bit forward or aft. Off the wind it is also a stabilizing factor and a deeper point around which to turn the boat.
There are two major drawbacks to centerboards, IMO. One is that at a certain point down, they will begin to move about in the trunk and make noise. Maybe that's less of a problem on other boats, but this one slips through the water so silently that sometimes the noise from the board can be a little bit bothersome. Solution: pull it up a few cranks.
The other much more serious problem that can develop with a board is the trunk leaking. I don't care if it is a day sailor or a 50' ocean going cruiser; this is a serious problem. In some cases it can be prohibitively expensive to repair and on those boats you will find the trunk sealed up and the board decommissioned.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Think technique and potential troubles vary widely depending on if your talking about a
Daggerboard ( no real ballast component)
lifting keel (major ballast component commonly in a bulb)
Keel centerboard ( no trunk intruding in to accommodations or even bilge to a significant degree)
Centerboard 
Also impact on how the boat handles varies. 
Most of the daggerboards I’m familiar with have been on multis. Can anyone comment on daggerboards in ocean going vessels?


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Peter Nilsson said:


> Must be Viva sailing Yachts (Sasanka) from Poland. Off course I`m owner of a VIVA 600.
> Very suitable for Swedish Lakes and Channels.


Very cool. Never heard of the Viva 600 before, so I looked it up. 19' boat with an enclosed head. Awesome.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

Jeff_H said:


> Properly designed and all other things being equal a daggerboard with a bulb should do as well or better than fin keeler. The only example that I know of was a Melges 24 that took to the ground at speeds thought to be in excess of 8 knots. The description that I heard was that she hit hard and with the large chute up, spun and took a hard down which carried her over the hump. Damage was described as cosmetic.
> 
> I don''t think that is a representative fair sampling of the concept. I suspect that depending on the design of the boat and the nature of the grounding there could easily be more extensive damage to the drop keel or its scabboard.
> 
> ...


Rich: Are you aware of the fate of Seaward 46 RK hull #1 (IIRC) off Little Creek, VA, a few years ago? I believe it ran aground under less than ideal conditions (weather and human factors).


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

My Clearwater 35 is a swing keel boat. It has lead enclosed within the leading edge of an elliptical fiberglass foil keel that weighs about 3000#. The keel retracts completely into the hull, allowing the hull to sit on the bottom (with the swing rudder up.). The boat was originally spec'd to draw 1' 10" with everything up, but it draws at least 2' when loaded for cruising. Draft is 6' with the keel down.

The aft end of the keel is faired to fill the hull aperture when the keel is fully down. It is lowered by gravity and raised via a winch on the coachroof that hauls a pennant attached to a block and tackle arrangement with 6:1 purchase. 

I've been in caught in some rather high winds (39 - 45 kts) several times in the 21 years I've owned her, but never came close to a knockdown. The boat tends to head up in strong puffs and does not like to have the rail buried. The Clearwater 35 is not a tender boat and typically reaches close-hauled maximum speed with a max of 20° heel. Form stability is part of the design equation along with weight discipline by the designer, Craig Walters, who also designed similar Sequin boats of 40' and over.

With inboard shrouds and a low aspect fin keel, the Clearwater 35 goes to weather better than most. It has a shorter WLL and displaces at 2000# more than a J-35, so it isn't a real race boat. However, the swing keel allows shortcuts and anchoring where most can't. And I can keep it at my shallow water (2.5' MLW) dock--no J-35's allowed! 

Maintenance has been minimal. I did replace the original SS keel pin, about 17 years ago when it appeared to be weeping at the seals. The new pin is 316 SS, whereas the original appeared to be 304 SS, and it hasn't leaked since. The 17 yr old seals are still going strong. The only other maintenance item is the pennant, which is 1/2" Dacron braid, and lasts over 10 years before it gets worn from winching. 

The keel trunk is the elephant in the main salon, extending all the way up to the coachroof, so it isn't for everyone--just those who need adjustable draft in a boat that sails very well.


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## Telesail (Dec 28, 2011)

There are several French boats with variable draft. Alubat Ovni, Allures, Garcia Expedition, Boreal......

They are typically ‘expedition’ boats rather than fast cruisers but they command a very loyal following and are great for high tidal ranges and going anywhere that ‘dries out’. Not sure what your objective is in looking for lifting centerboard or swing keel but worth taking a look anyhow.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Wow! An 18 year old thread that's been dead for over 10 years comes back to life!


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Tele from talks with owners of these boats another aspect that draws people to these boats is behavior in extreme weather. Apparently with board up even if sideways to a wave they will slide not broach and turn turtle. With a jsd out and companionway closed the storm tactic is totally passive. An excellent feature for a couple. Also trade wind sailing is downwind so the decrease in wetted surface with board up is helpful. Boreal had the centerboard but also two small daggerboards way aft. Downwind the configuration is centerboard up daggerboard(s) down.
Given they are Al and coatings are expensive although marketing photos show them beached from what I understand beaching is avoided. Sand is very abrasive and if in surf the boat will settle some. However in places where anchoring stern to beach and bow in shallow water would have been very convenient. Going off the sugar scoop into waist deep water to wade to the beach would be slick.


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## Telesail (Dec 28, 2011)

Outbound, you are right on all counts. I confess that I did not quite have the guts to pull the trigger on any of the boats listed and instead went with a fixed keel on an Aluminum boat. But I sailed a few before making the decision and was very nearly ready. In the end, I was prepared to sacrifice the Bahamas for simplicity (did not go for air-con, generator or any high maintenance systems other than an autopilot)


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## john61ct (Jan 23, 2017)

JimsCAL said:


> Wow! An 18 year old thread that's been dead for over 10 years comes back to life!


And unlike electronics, most of the old comments are still relevant!


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