# Recurring Costs. What am I missing?



## gene80 (Jan 21, 2009)

The day of our sabbatical approaches and I continue to edit and reconcile our budget models. I've read through threads on this site along with others and would like your opinions.

38 ft - Catalina
Cruising in the Bahamas

Which estimates are logical, which are too high, are there any recurring costs that I'm missing all together?

Monthly:
Insurance - $200
Gas - $25
Water - $50
Slip Fees - $120
Food - $200
Eating Out - $300
Land Transportation, Custom,Park Fees - $100
Entertainment/(Tank Fills) - $100
Cell - $50
Maintenance - ?

How far off am I?


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

I would stock up on extras like alternator, belts, oils, anti freeze, fiters, even extr injectors might not be a bad idea, all the little goodies that could give up the ghost and be a pita to get while crusing, even extra pumps ( ie freshwater,bilge etc,etc)


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

I think your fuel cost is low, that is only 6-8 gallons monthly...

Also slippage, per night if you are cruising is at least $1.40/ft per night plus extra for internet, pumpout etc..

FOod and eating out....pretty low, unless you split meals and do a lot of your own...even then, supplies are very high in the islands


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

well

I am not sure that budget would work even on the US east coast unless you were anchored out free full time ?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

gene80 said:


> The day of our sabbatical approaches and I continue to edit and reconcile our budget models. I've read through threads on this site along with others and would like your opinions.
> 
> 38 ft - Catalina
> Cruising in the Bahamas
> ...


The insurance sounds pretty low too. CD's boat is a 40' boat and his insurance is $4500 or so... your budget is for only $2400. 


> Gas - $25


Really too low, unless you can manage to sail everywhere and not your dinghy's outboard much


> Water - $50


A bit low unless you've got a watermaker IMHO. Many islands only have RO water and you have to pay for it. 


> Slip Fees - $120


This sounds low, unless you are anchoring out almost every day. If you used a slip and had to pay $1.50 a foot, you're looking at $114 for just two nights. There are also often dinghy dock fees, so even if you're anchored out, you might be paying something each night.



> Food - $200


Most of the food in the islands, other than what they can catch or raise locally, has to be imported. This makes the food far more expensive than you'd see in the US, where transportation costs are much lower. I seriously doubt that you could survive on this budget.


> Eating Out - $300


While you can eat reasonably inexpensive if you stick to the restaurants that the locals use, drinks will add up fast. 


> Land Transportation, Custom,Park Fees - $100


Customs fees can be higher than that... so it depends on how often you change ports and/or countries.


> Entertainment/(Tank Fills) - $100


Why do you combine these two? Also, entertainment can be very expensive. 


> Cell - $50


Depends on the service. $50 is normal for the states, but in most of the islands, you'll be using a pre-paid card and the minutes are far more expensive, especially if you're calling internationally.


> Maintenance - ?


I'd highly recommend putting aside a slush fund for major repairs that can crop up. The larger the boat, the more complex the systems, the more expensive the maintenance costs will generally be.


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## gene80 (Jan 21, 2009)

Alright, let's go at this again with feedback incorporated.

*Monthly:*
Insurance - $350
Gas - $125
Water - $75
Slip Fees - $160
-	3 nights/month
Mooring Fees - $150
-	10 nights @ $15/night
Food - $300
Eating Out - $500
Land Transportation, Custom/Park Fees - $200
Entertainment - $100
Tank Fills/Bait - $25
Cell - $75
Maintenance - ~$200

That puts 6/months cruising @ around $13k.

How much do you end up spending on communication? Phone, Internet, etc...


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

If you haven't lived on the boat before I would suggest adding a "refit" cost of at least hundreds of $us a month for materials, tools, and services to make changes to the boat while you are living on it. There's no such thing as getting on the boat and living on it and not wanting to make somewhat expensive changes in the first few months. Even little stuff like adding a hook to hang something, grease to make a hinge stop squeaking, rubber bumper to make a door stop banging, etc, it all adds up. Add bits of wire, connectors, etc, and it adds up faster. Start adding radios, instruments, major cosmetic changes, etc, and it is a whole new game.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

Stuff the insurance, don't eat, don't call, don't motor, drink saltwater and do not maintain your boat. 

There you go. You can cruise indefinitely now.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Insurance - wow, is it really that expensive? Is that a newer-boat thing, an east coast thing, or a Bahamas thing, or what? My boat is 70% the length of CD's and I pay less than a tenth part of that.


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

Hopefully you have a water maker. If not, figure you'll be paying $.50/Gal for water in any of the out-islands.

Unless you don't drink, or are bringing a huge amount of beer/wine, figure a couple of bucks a pop for a bottle of beer. Food is cheap so long as you "go native" and/or can catch a lot of you dinner. Fresh veggies are an expensie novelty!

Good luck. No one has ever starved or spent too much time on the wagon in the islands. Just have a vew bucks in reserve!!

FWIW...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

It has a lot more to do with the age and size of CD's boat and being in the Caribbean. While your boat is 70% of the length, it is nowhere near 70% of the SIZE of CDs boat. *A Catalina 400 displaces about 20,000 lbs., where your boat displaces only 7,300 lbs., or about 35% of his.*

There's a huge difference there, isn't there. Length is a lousy metric for comparing boats, as boats increase in length, width, and beam. A 20' boat is not half the size of a 40' boat, but closer to 1/8 the size.

Also, what year is your boat. CD's is only a few years old IIRC.



AdamLein said:


> Insurance - wow, is it really that expensive? Is that a newer-boat thing, an east coast thing, or a Bahamas thing, or what? My boat is 70% the length of CD's and I pay less than a tenth part of that.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Sure, you go ahead and do that... have fun..     We'll wait to hear the USCG report you as a statistic.


tager said:


> Stuff the insurance, don't eat, don't call, don't motor, drink saltwater and do not maintain your boat.
> 
> There you go. You can cruise indefinitely now.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Dawg- I'm hoping he just forgot to add several laugher's to the end of that.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I seriously doubt it, since he's been posting a lot of trash as of late.


jrd22 said:


> Dawg- I'm hoping he just forgot to add several laugher's to the end of that.


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

tager said:


> Stuff the insurance, *don't eat*, don't call, don't motor, *drink saltwater* and do not maintain your boat.
> 
> There you go. You can cruise indefinitely now.


Alain Bombard much?

:laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Of course, AB didn't do it a second time.


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

We have an unlocked GSM cell phone (you can buy on the internet for <$75). Buy a SIM card with a Bahamas telephone number, then phone calls are 50 cents per minute to the US and 40 centes per minute in the Bahams. 

Water: some places is 50 cents per gallon, others its free if you haul jerry jugs (Black Point and Georgetown, for example). We use about 100 gal per month for 2 people, not counting laundry. Laundromats will cost $6-7 per load, local women will take in washing for $10 per load. 

Insurance depends on whats covered - dink theft? liveaboard possessions? - as well as the value of your boat and the company's assessment of your risk. Ours is about $2K/year.

Clearing into the Bahamas is $150 for a boat <35 ft; I think its $300 for larger vessels.

Diesel is $4-$5/gal.

Bring spares of everything, and stock up on all your canned and dry goods in the States. We saw a roll of Bounty paper towels - one single roll - for $5.35. Good thing we had 12 rolls in the locker. 

Snorkeling in crystal clear turquoise water, seeing a green flash at sunset, chatting with the locals in that musical island accent ... priceless!  

Have a great trip!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

tager said:


> Alain Bombard much?
> 
> :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher


Wow. I'd never heard of the guy. I love the name of his boat:

_l'Hérétique_

Nice.

So they say Hans L. discredited most of AB's claims? Was AB having pizzas and Yoohoo secretly delivered or something?


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## JimB517 (Feb 12, 2003)

*overall budget*

When our family of 4 took a year off and cruised from Milwaukee to the Bahamas, the overall cost came to $110/day. We planned on $100. My website has all the photos, journals, and a complete breakdown of the cost of cruising.

I met people who were doing it on $25/day.

Whatever you plan, it will cost more.


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## bloodhunter (May 5, 2009)

You're estimating about $1200/month less maintenance but you don't say how many will be aboard for your sabbatical cruise. My wife and I have been making the same sort of calculations and IMHO you're way low. To be on the safe side I would double that $1200.


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## gene80 (Jan 21, 2009)

It'll just be me and the wifey with the occasional visiting couple. I guess I should have provided more details on the the overall plan. 

We'll be working to refit the boat to our liking for ~6-9 months prior to beginning our trip. My intention is to have the boat in great overall condition prior to pushing off.

SD, I received the detailed insurance quote today and it came in at $2800 for the standard fare. I can live with that...

The more I think about it, I think the trip will be serving dual purpose. It will allow for an extended vacation while also being a job search via wind and water. 

I can't see the ocean from Atlanta.


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## Cal28 (Jul 6, 2009)

JimB517 said:


> When our family of 4 took a year off and cruised from Milwaukee to the Bahamas, the overall cost came to $110/day. We planned on $100. My website has all the photos, journals, and a complete breakdown of the cost of cruising.
> 
> I met people who were doing it on $25/day.
> 
> Whatever you plan, it will cost more.


May I ask ... where is your website?


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

+1 to Eryka, except on spares.

My experience is that people over-spare. Aside from the space and weight there is little more frustrating than pulling a spare from stock and finding it rusted to uselessness. If time isn't an issue I think you are better served having what you need shipped in when you need it, or bargaining with people who have half-rusted spares. YMMV.


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## Superpickle (Oct 17, 2009)

How many peeps is the Budget for Gene ?

I would think, Pumpouts would be Expensive in that area. Wouldnt it ?
Composting head, Better ?

As it is, it looks good for me in that area of expenses


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

That's what a good vacuum sealer is good for... sealing spares up nice and tight and compact...



SVAuspicious said:


> +1 to Eryka, except on spares.
> 
> My experience is that people over-spare. Aside from the space and weight there is little more frustrating than pulling a spare from stock and finding it rusted to uselessness. If time isn't an issue I think you are better served having what you need shipped in when you need it, or bargaining with people who have half-rusted spares. YMMV.


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## serenity440 (Aug 22, 2010)

AdamLein said:


> Insurance - wow, is it really that expensive? Is that a newer-boat thing, an east coast thing, or a Bahamas thing, or what? My boat is 70% the length of CD's and I pay less than a tenth part of that.


I agree here...I am using BoatUS and have a 44 footer at only $1400 a year. It makes me wonder if someone is paying too much or I am missing coverage I should look into


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## mccary (Feb 24, 2002)

I have not made the trip, always in the back of my mind. But from blogs that I have read one important item you are missing from your list is ICE. I know one 27' boat that spend several months there and spent about $90-$100 a month on just ice. Maybe some people don't require as much or don't use it at all, but it is worth considering.


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## john2ndchance (Aug 25, 2010)

*Atlanta*



gene80 said:


> I can't see the ocean from Atlanta.


Gene, 
I am in the same area and can't see the ocean from here. I have been working on outfitting my boat for the same type cruise. Hopefully departing this fall from Savannah. Contact me so we can discuss plans for our trips. 
My boat is currently on Lanier, hoping to move it next month.

John


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## gene80 (Jan 21, 2009)

@McCary - Good point about the ice. I guess there're not giving it away with electricity being so expensive in the islands. Didn't think I would be dropping a C note on ice per month. Geez... Someone loves their Vodka tonics.

@John2ndchance - Sent a PM with my email. Plans have changed a bit as of late and we are looking to close on a 28 footer in the next couple of weeks. Plan to sail that for more experience, get use to the cruiser life/community, then look to get the bigger boat in ~6-9 months. We've been giving a smaller cat a lot of thought; PDQ 36, FP 35/38, Lagoon 35/37, etc...


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I think the costs to cruise are very personal. We spent the winter in the Caribbean and did not ever buy ice and did not miss it. Our drinks were refrigerated and that seemed fine. Ice ($100/month) seems a terrible indulgence to us but might be a necessity to others.

Our cruising cost was about $1400/month for a 36k pound displacement vessel that was in very good condition to start (with full insurance). We never paid for a dock but used moorings where necessary (eg Exuma Park and St John). 

We had a significant slush fund if we needed it. Only used it to buy a new windlass in St Martin (cheaper than US prices and a windlass replacement was in the works anyway).

Customs in the Bahamas is very expensive ($300 for us) but at least it is only one country. If you are going down island it is a continuous nagging cost (ranging from free in Martinique to over $100 in St Vincent and the Grenadines). 

Food costs vary enormously and it is a great idea to really load up where it is cheap. For example, in Martinique and Guadeloupe quite good wine started around $3 a bottle, while in Grenada there was a really good supermarket that had selection like one in North America and prices only slightly higher than here. Food costs also can vary enormously depending on how keen you are to eat the local food. If you want a purely North American diet it will be really expensive and impossible in some areas. Better to eat the plantains, wonderful bread (French islands), and local chicken (much better taste than in NA).


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## IslanderGuy (Apr 26, 2008)

killarney_sailor said:


> Our drinks were refrigerated and that seemed fine. Ice ($100/month) seems a terrible indulgence to us but might be a necessity to others.


I think that cost was for someone without refrigeration, using an ice box instead for all their cooling needs.... at least I hope so, thats a lot of ice otherwise...


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## trisstan87 (Aug 15, 2010)

My father told me stories of having his brother tow him behind on a his SunFish while he found his dinner, whatever he could spear with his sling. I imagine, perhaps foolishly, being able to drop anchor and cast out a line or throw on the fins and snorkel and catch my own food. I imagine having a boat that is extremely seaworthy, but perhaps sparse in modern electronics beyond the safety essentials. From a cost and living stand point I want to leave hardly a print. $25 per day... I suppose during stops at ports. I very much hope the days of just sailing to where you want (in reason of course!) dropping anchor and just enjoying life have not left. I just think some things should be free, and if you try to be as self sufficient as possible I think you can live extremely cheap and be happy. In the end, that is all that matters.
Of course, this all changes when you have a wife or significant other. I am speaking from the selfish perspective of a planned single-hander.


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