# Best route from Norfolk to Miami this Nov/Dec



## born2bfree (Mar 4, 2011)

Hi,
I'm planning to move my Tartan 34 from Virginia to South Florida towards the end of November. My plan is to sail ICW to Beaufort, SC, and then sail directly outside from there to Florida. 
I'm not new to sailing, but this would be my first trip down the East Coast. I would really appreciate any input from all of you experienced skips out there.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

I would take ICW to Beaufort NC, anchor there for the night, leave really early on the outside (it’s over 60 nautical miles) pull into Wrightsville inlet for the night, go inside next day and out through Cape Fear River, then outside to Miami close to shore if weather allows, or pull into any of the good inlets along the way if tired or to avoid bad weather.


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## bristol299bob (Apr 13, 2011)

I suppose it depends on what your plans and constraints are. Maybe you need to be at beaufort SC to meet family/friends? Or perhaps you enjoy a leisurely "motor boat ride" down the ICW? Maybe you are looking for a longer offshore experience? Are you solo or do you have crew? Do you need to be in Miami at a certain date? These would all factor into your choice. 

in regards to the ICW from Norfolk to Beaufort NC, it's a fun trip, deep enough, some locks and draw bridges. You'll get to sail some in the Albermarle Sound, Pungo River, Pamlico River, Bay river and Neuse River. Continuing on the ICW south from Beaufort NC there are some shallow spots, but check Active Captain or Waterway guide for that. Pay attention and you'll be fine. 

All things being equal, I agree with Kriss, go outside at Beaufort NC (not SC) and make the hop to Masonboro inlet (Wrightsville beach). That is a long day. I Dont think you'll be able to do it daylight this time of year unless your boat is much faster than mine (ok ok most boats are faster than mine  ) Both Beaufort Inlet and Masonboro Inlet are well marked, wide and deep. I'd give them plenty of respect at night and be very cautious of entering either in wind-against-current situations. 

If you have a good weather window leaving Beaufort you could consider setting a course to go around Frying Pan Shoals (Cape Fear) and continue further south on the outside if that's your thing. There are a number of good bail out spots between cape fear and Miami (there are also some really bad ones so do your research and know which inlets are safe).

I've done this route a number of times and I prefer hoping offshore. I find that the ICW can be tedious and exhausting, but also interesting and fun in it's own way. no right or wrong here, and I'm pretty sure that no matter what you decide it will be better than a day at the office


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## born2bfree (Mar 4, 2011)

Great tips Krisscross and Bristol299bob. Thank you so much.

I am a sailor at heart and try to minimize listening to engine's buzz. I will be sailing with my wife, who is a sailor herself. Our objective is to bring the boat down to South Florida quickly and safely. I studied the charts and I really like the idea of sailing from Beaufort NC outside to Wrightsville, then motor along Masonboro Island to Cape Fear River, down the Cape Fear River, and finally go outside again for some more sailing. I looks like it's only about 300 miles from there to Jacksonville, Florida. We have sailed 250 miles non-stop on Lake Ontario on multiple occasions.
Can you suggest several good hiding places between Southport and Miami if the weather does not cooperate?


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Off top of my head, the good inlets south of Southport are Georgetown, Charleston, Hilton Head, Fernandina, St. Augustine, Ft. Pierce. Look at your charts. Good inlets have good depth, lighted buoys, and plenty of channel markers. Making them at night can be very unnerving, especially in rough weather.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

krisscross said:


> Off top of my head, the good inlets south of Southport are Georgetown, Charleston, Hilton Head, Fernandina, St. Augustine, Ft. Pierce. Look at your charts. Good inlets have good depth, lighted buoys, and plenty of channel markers. Making them at night can be very unnerving, especially in rough weather.


Add to that no shoals running from shore on either side which encourage breakers rolling across the channel and no rip roaring current so they are impassible when wind is opposite current.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

Cape Fear to Jacksonville, is good run, if the weather allows. If you do motor along Masonboro is. and exit Cape fear. I stopped at the little Marina at Carolina State Park to clean up, top up and wait for the current to turn. the Marina is right there as soon as you clear Snow's Cut, As I recall, we walked into town along the park road ( a good walk!) to get a few supplies. 

Also, if you want to actually go to up the city of Jacksonville, keep in mind that it's still about 20 miles up river once you clear the inlet. 
They did have free public tie ups in town, starboard side, along the Wall just before the Bridge! Watch your stuff though, a buddy of mine had his dinghy stolen from the Ruth Chris's across the river. 

Have a great trip!


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## bristol299bob (Apr 13, 2011)

krisscross said:


> Off top of my head, the good inlets south of Southport are Georgetown, Charleston, Hilton Head, Fernandina, St. Augustine, Ft. Pierce. Look at your charts. Good inlets have good depth, lighted buoys, and plenty of channel markers. Making them at night can be very unnerving, especially in rough weather.


Agree with Kriss, I'll add Port Royal, St Mary's and Port Canaveral.



tempest said:


> Cape Fear to Jacksonville, is good run, if the weather allows ....


Agree with Tempest, Cape Fear to Jacksonville would be a great 3-4 day adventure.

With two aboard you will both be very tired when you arrive, it's hard to get into a decent rhythm for 2 in only 3 days. Plan to anchor and sleep before deciding on your next move!

Nights are chilly this time of year, and since you are favoring a north wind to make your way south the days & nights underway will be even chilly-er. Thermos or two of hot water, coffee, hot chocolate, soup, stew all of these are your friend for this trip.


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## born2bfree (Mar 4, 2011)

Great tips again All of you. Thank you so much for all your input.

We are bringing a lot of winter clothing for this trip and we are planning to avoid overnight sailing unless we are outside. We are not familiar with anchorages so we will play safe.

In terms of sailing outside, the Gulf Stream is further out up North and closer to shore as you go South. We don't want to be too close to shore to avoid most obstructions there, but at the same time we have to watch for the Gulf Stream. What is the best distance offshore for this trip? I understand it varies, but are there must be the most optimal route from Southport to Florida on the outside.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

You won't be in the Stream from Cape Fear to Jax. Without looking, I believe the furthest point we were offshore on that run was about 36 miles. I could see the cloud bank sitting over the stream off to the east though. 

If you go to Passage weather, Drill down to, Maps, North Atlantic, Cape Hatteras to Florida and then look for the tab at the top of the page that gives you approx. position of the stream. That's one site. There are others.


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

Your route down the ICW from Norfolk to Beaufort SC. will be a crawl... Most likely 50 mile days. If you enjoy that sort of thing and are looking forward to making several stops along the way to explore it's a good choice. On the other hand if you want to get to Florida quicker and you don't mind some offshore work you can take the ICW from Norfolk to Morehead City then go outside to Charleston.
Then after resting up in Charleston you can go back outside and go back in at Ferandina Beach/Amelia Island instead of going in at Jacksonville. I would take the ICW from there to St. Augustine and then from there you will need to start hugging the coast if you want to go on the outside. Pick your weather windows and make sure that you have backup charts just in case the GPS goes on the fritz. Avoid Jupiter Inlet. It can get nasty. In bad weather even Ft. Pierce can be sketchy if you aren't used to running inlets. That's why I'm a fair weather sailor.


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## born2bfree (Mar 4, 2011)

I studied charts quite extensively for the past few hours. Are the following inlets considered too dangerous to hide in case winds pickup to above 20 kn?

Savannah/Tybee Roads Inlet
Latitude: 32° 2' 12.59"N
Longitude: 80° 49' 23.70"W

St. Catherines Sound Inlet
Latitude: 31° 42' 5.69"N
Longitude: 81° 5' 19.66"W

Brunswick/St. Simons Sound Inlet
Latitude: 31° 7' 28.82"N
Longitude: 81° 22' 43.11"W


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## bristol299bob (Apr 13, 2011)

born2bfree said:


> I studied charts quite extensively for the past few hours. Are the following inlets considered too dangerous to hide in case winds pickup to above 20 kn?
> 
> Savannah/Tybee Roads Inlet
> Latitude: 32° 2' 12.59"N
> ...


I've not transited any of these, but looking at the charts here are my thoughts (FWIW):

Tybee Roads Inlet: Appears to be a commercial inlet, well marked and maintained. 
- I have transited Both Port Royal and St Helena Sound inlet which are nearby. Both of these were well marked and drama free in good weather. St Helena Sound inlet has a bar which i imagine could provide some excitement in rougher weather.

St Catherines Sound: I would not transit this one, it seems a little too shallow, a little too much current and a little too sketchy for my taste, on a sailboat anyway.

Brunswick/St Simons Sound: this seems to be a commercial inlet and well maintained and well marked.

Any of these will significant tidal currents. Be sure to have current data (that's data on the speed and direction of the current) for the days of your trip. Most charting apps and chartplotters have that data built in. Before approaching an inlet you should be aware of the currents you can expect.

btw I really like this book, although it's getting out of date. I keep a copy on the boat:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0932265774/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Aquarian (Nov 8, 2010)

Brunswick/St. Simons Sound is definitely well marked and we'll used by big ships. From outside to shelter behind St. Simons is going to take at least an hour if your making 6 knots. The shoals go out to sea for miles here. You'd turn north up the Frederica River and anchor just before the breakwall south of the Frederica Yacht Club and Morningstar Marina. It will be rollly with winds out of the South otherwise typically ok for wind, but be aware of the tidal currents which can be quite strong. Farther on inland, don't turn at the Frederica River, is an old naval hurricane hole, Brunswick landing, but as far as I know there really isn't a good place to anchor and the noseeums abound.


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

I don’t know the area north of St Augustine at all but have sailed between Port Canaveral and the Keys many times. 

The inlet at St. Augustine can be tricky in strong easterly winds with an outgoing tide - would recommend passing it up for Port Canaveral if at all possible unless you have settled weather.

The inlets at Port Canaveral, Fort Pierce, West Palm, Fort Lauderdale, and Miami are all deep, wide, well marked and well maintained. 

Stuart inlet, in my experience, can be tricky also unless the weather is calm and you enter at slack tide.

Fort Pierce and West Palm can have some pretty strong currents on the outgoing tides - I’ve seen 6-8 foot standing waves at Fort Pierce at peak ebb tide with strong easterly winds....

Port Canaveral is great but be aware marina options are limited so call ahead to reserve a slip at Ocean Club or Cape Marina, or plan to arrive during daylight hours to negotiate the drawbridge and lock to access the ICW to anchor or find other marinas.

Hope you have a safe trip!


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## born2bfree (Mar 4, 2011)

Thank you all of you for all your great tips. Truly appreciated.

As far as weather goes I don't think there should be a reason to hide unless it blows 20+ knots with cold front coming, or it is strong southerly. Please correct me if I'm wrong here. I sailed quite extensively on Lake Ontario on a smaller boat (C&C 30) in spring and early summer with 20+ knots winds and 4-6 feet waves. It was a bit rough, but nothing that I and my wife cannot handle. I don't have any experience in going down the Atlantic coast, so if anyone of you has sailed Great Lakes in spring/early summer time can relate to what to expect close to shore, please share your thoughts.

Thank you


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## bristol299bob (Apr 13, 2011)

born2bfree said:


> Thank you all of you for all your great tips. Truly appreciated.
> 
> As far as weather goes I don't think there should be a reason to hide unless it blows 20+ knots with cold front coming, or it is strong southerly. Please correct me if I'm wrong here. I sailed quite extensively on Lake Ontario on a smaller boat (C&C 30) in spring and early summer with 20+ knots winds and 4-6 feet waves. It was a bit rough, but nothing that I and my wife cannot handle. I don't have any experience in going down the Atlantic coast, so if anyone of you has sailed Great Lakes in spring/early summer time can relate to what to expect close to shore, please share your thoughts.
> 
> Thank you


I agree, no need to fear 20 knts in general on the Atlantic however do be aware and cautious of inlets even the big ones. But yea, to your point, sailing on the atlantic is not a problem in 20+ knts. In fact it's a hell of a lot more pleasant than sailing on some of our shallow sounds in the same conditions.


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

born2bfree said:


> Thank you all of you for all your great tips. Truly appreciated.
> 
> As far as weather goes I don't think there should be a reason to hide unless it blows 20+ knots with cold front coming, or it is strong southerly. Please correct me if I'm wrong here. I sailed quite extensively on Lake Ontario on a smaller boat (C&C 30) in spring and early summer with 20+ knots winds and 4-6 feet waves. It was a bit rough, but nothing that I and my wife cannot handle. I don't have any experience in going down the Atlantic coast, so if anyone of you has sailed Great Lakes in spring/early summer time can relate to what to expect close to shore, please share your thoughts.
> 
> Thank you


My brother keeps his boat on Lake Ontario and I'm somewhat familiar with the slop that can build up there....it can be unpleasant but in my opinion it's not the same risk category as being a few hundred miles offshore in the Atlantic and having a cold front throw a gale at you.....

The seas offshore can be very rough heading south even in 20 knots if the wind has any kind of northerly component, especially when you get south far enough to see effects from the Gulf Stream - around north Florida. And sometimes those cold fronts bring a lot stronger winds than 20 knots....

That time of year you're likely to see cold fronts coming through pretty regularly so keep a close eye on your weather. I would be prepared to head for one of the safe inlets before things got too bouncy.

The ICW from St Augustine to West Palm is easy 50 mile days, nice places to anchor, and can make for good sailing with very few drawbridges. After that it's a carnival funhouse of bridges, motorboats, expensive marinas, and crowded anchorages, so I usually try to wait for good weather to sail outside from WP to Biscayne Bay when I've had to tuck in to wait out a cold front.

FWIW

Be safe and have fun!


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

The Atlantic Inlets need to be respected tide against wind sets up large short cycled standing waves which can stop you in your tracks. Shoals extending in to ocean up to a mile on the sides of inlet channels can set up ocean swells a breaking whitewater across an inlet fairway. Going from deep water ( 60 ft) to shallow Over a shoal ( will take a 4 foot swell at 60 ft of depth to a whitewater wave. 

In bad weather you stay in deep water and don’t come in till conditions have calmed down.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

krisscross said:


> I would take ICW to Beaufort NC, anchor there for the night, leave really early on the outside (it's over 60 nautical miles) pull into Wrightsville inlet for the night, go inside next day and out through Cape Fear River, then outside to Miami close to shore if weather allows, or pull into any of the good inlets along the way if tired or to avoid bad weather.


One of our infamous posters (Jon Eisberg) who passed away a few years ago offered me the following which worked out quite well: Follow the krisscross recommendation but target your travel to follow the passage of a NW (equinoctal gale) and ride the 'backside' of a NW blow all the way down until you meet with the north easterlies or easterlies - N. Florida. You may have to wait a day after the front passes and for the waves to lay down a bit; but, due to the limited fetch your ride will be mostly a screaming beam reach.

There used to be a publisher of the relative up-to-date conditions of the less than Class A inlets - White Sound Press.


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## born2bfree (Mar 4, 2011)

I love you guys. Really great tips. I think I have a pretty good picture what what to do and especially WHAT TO AVOID. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge 

For the Caribbean further down the road in January I am planning to get in reach service, but for the passage to Florida I was hoping to rely on VHF CG reports and occasional marina with WIFI. Do you think this will suffice?

Cheers


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

I am moving south from Beaufort NC now. Due to fairly large waves 4 to 6 feet and their direction (on the beam) we opted for using ICW for next two days or more. When you are going south and the waves are from the east, you can have a real problem. Going coastal you can listen to NOAA radio and these are good forecasts.


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## Aquarian (Nov 8, 2010)

For weather VHF and a cell phone should suffice if you stay coastal.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

I see dozens of boats going south on ICW every day. Mostly because the weather outside is so bad. I’m mostly motorsailng on the north wind. Currently anchored at Fort Matanzas, Florida. Next few days are going to be rather rough outside. For me, it’s better than waiting for that elusive weather window. I’m moving every day and not stressing the boat or myself.


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## dedeSP (Sep 23, 2019)

I recommend the use of Bob423 tracks and the USACE (US Corps of engineers) surveys in Aqua Map. Cruising in ICW is less stressful with these tools.


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## Guyfromthenorth (Jul 2, 2015)

I literally just finished Beaufort SC to Jacksonville this morning. Left Beaufort at 6am yesterday and arrived to an Anchorage just off the st John river at 10am this morning. We had 15kt NW and W winds. We did Caps Fear to Charleston under the same conditions and it was the most beautiful sail I've ever had. The same weather from Beaufort to Jacksonville beat the living hell out of us for 18hrs of the run. Sharp stacked waves exactly like the great lakes we sailed most of our experience on. We saw 8ft breakers, a few came over my bow and pitched sea water right over my dodger. Buried the rails lots too and my furler went under more than once. Very much like great lakes sailing.

We did see a loggerhead turtle though which was nice and we cut a ton of motoring off the ICW. It can for sure be an easy sail, I'm not sure why the same winds made such angry conditions compared to our last hop.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Maybe closer to the GS and in wind (NW) vs current helped create you sea state.


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## Guyfromthenorth (Jul 2, 2015)

Could be Chef, when we did Fear to Charleston we had the same winds but nowhere near the nasty water. Ah well, chalk another learning experience on the board lol.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

One of the things I Really look for in the long term weather forecast is the size and direction of the waves. The waves make all the difference. Today I did the offshore run from Fort Worth inlet to Port Everglades. It was delightful. But I waited 3 days for the rigHt weather. Tomorrow an offshore run to Miami.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Yep its the sea state.
The anchorage by No Name Harbor in biscayne is ok, with good dinghy land access, turns on the tides and have to deal with power boats. Free water
Good winn dixie nearby.
Jerry jug diesel 1/2 mile or less further north. Have cart...
Not a bad hike or uber it


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

RegisteredUser said:


> Yep its the sea state.
> The anchorage by No Name Harbor in biscayne is ok, with good dinghy land access, turns on the tides and have to deal it


 Thanks. That is where I plan to go. Any good fuel docks nearby?


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Nope
Will have to hoof it

The harbor itself has total protection. There is a fee and you can giggle it.
If anchoring out, suggest being SE of the entrance..because of power boaters.
Its s party place on weekends...viva cuba..loud

Ive done used it 3 times. 1 inside, twice out
If you uber, dont let the park gate charge you when coming back in..you are anchored
All told, its not a bad walk to the WD and back, but cart or uber fuel from the mobil station. 

Point just south of 90 when crossing until you find the current/resistance. Then walk her across with that sideways push..if that makes sense. You will see it on the speedo. Not a prob.
South of north rock has safe depth


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Addition...
For where youre going, you will love yourself for buying a cheap chinese cart.
Not always used, but sometimes a sanity and back saver.
Water and fuel
So have cans/jugs
Once figured..no prob


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

krisscross said:


> Thanks. That is where I plan to go. Any good fuel docks nearby?


Crandon Park Marina is just north of there, with fairly easy access in and out for fuel and ice. Last time I stopped there was about 5 years ago, though.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

I stopped at the stadium anchorage for tonight. Not bad at all, and free. The view of the city is stunning.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

If you walk about a mile to mainland, city has a free trolley route that will take you all over town. Had a great time walking around downtown. This is the night view from my anchorage.


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