# Rigging up an A-sail



## Tweegs (Jun 25, 2010)

We’ve discovered that the JAM credit doesn’t nearly compensate us for not flying a spinnaker/Asym, and in order to get in the game, we’ve got to start flying a kite (our local race series doesn’t have a separate JAM class. JAM boats get a 12 sec. credit).

Typical winds on the lake are 15 knots or less and seldom do we have dead downwind legs. This makes the Asymmetrical the most commonly used spinnaker in the fleet.

The issue at hand is that my boat isn’t A sail friendly. Masthead rigged, only two sheaves in the truck (main and jib halyards) and no deck hardware for the tack.

I’m getting conflicting advice on whether the A sail should be rigged outside the fore triangle, or inside. Either way, I have to get a block fixed to the mast and run a halyard external to the mast. 

Inside the fore triangle would be easiest. An eye pad, perhaps, just below the forestay with a good block and shackle. A block on deck as far forward as I can get, with a backing plate, for the tack.

Outside the triangle, as I see it, would be a bigger challenge. There isn’t any real estate above the forestay, so I’d need something on top of the truck. There I’m going to run in to clearance issues with the VHF and anemometer. The halyard from the block to the cleat (not so much to the head) might have an issue with the forestay if we need to jibe over to the other board. Also, I can’t get someone far enough up the mast where they could see while drilling into the truck, the work would have to be done overhead and blind. This is sure to result in a drill bit going through a sheave, pin or halyard, and with my luck, all three. And there is still the tack to deal with.

Maybe there is a better way to get the block above the forestay. Maybe everything will be just fine with the sail rigged inside the fore triangle. I don’t have the experience to make that call on my own and could use a little help. Maybe I’m missing something entirely. What do you think?


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

What model boat do you have? Surely, others who own that same boat have flown an A-sail. 

We also have a masthead and fly ours in front of the headstay but we also have a nice sprit with a padeye.


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## Tweegs (Jun 25, 2010)

It's an Irwin 39, not many of them out there.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Rig it outside the forestay. 
Post a picture of your masthead bits, or draw a sketch and post it. 
You'll need a halyard, internal is better in most cases, but external works as well. 
The tack line needs to be adjustable and preferably in front of the forestay, but attached somewhere on the stem works well. I would not tack it behind the forestay. 
Do you have turning blocks at the aft corners? 
How long is the luff on your chute compared to the forestay length? 

Now for the news you don't want to hear:
If you're already getting a 12 sec. credit for not flying a chute, and there aren't many DDW legs, then you're not that disadvantaged and need to find improvements elsewhere.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

zz4gta said:


> ...Now for the news you don't want to hear:
> If you're already getting a 12 sec. credit for not flying a chute, and there aren't many DDW legs, then you're not that disadvantaged and need to find improvements elsewhere.


Not necessarily true. Asyms do much better on broad reaches. If you have a lot of broad reaches, an Asym should overcome a 12sec/mi adjustment. On some boats, the Asym is so much better on a reach that they will do linked reaches to a downwind mark to achieve a better VMG compared to DDW.

Try these sites for specific info regarding your Irwin:

Irwin Owners Group

Irwin Yachts


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Tweegs,

It really depends on how much you want to spend. The ideal would honestly be to replace your mast head crane with one that has more sheaves to install a halyard, possibly with a spinnaker crane. Run the new halyard internally, and drill a new exit plate in the mast. For the tack, add a retrofit spinnaker pole (I like the one from Selden).

This will also be the most expensive by far.

Instead of the new crane you can likely install a spinnaker bail (see Masthead Spinnaker Bails ) it is still much prefered to run the halyard internally, but if you can't, these will act as a location to add a block.

Either way a spinnaker should always be flown above the forestay, and outside of it. Otherwise you will have major chaffing issues as the halyard tail is forced outside and around the stay attachment points. A-sails in particular need clear runs, because they are pulling to the side, not just forward. If the sail can't fly free of the stay it will defiantly rub there, and you will spend a lot of time either replacing the halyard or the head patch of the spinnaker.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

To properly fly a spinnaker you need to add a spinnaker crane. 

If you want to use an asym for performance, you need to also add a sprit to get sail area, otherwise you should use a symmetric with a pole. Flying a cruising chute (no sprit, no crane, no pole) would be better than a white sail, but not close to a sym or large asym.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

You definitely need to fly the chute outside the foretriangle, and you will need a spinnaker halyard. If you really want to do it right a small bowsprit should also be used, although plenty of cruisers fly them from the stem or anchor roller. If you are going to get a chute built new, then you should do it right!


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

The simplest setup might be to bolt a nice solid tang flat on top of your mast, sticking out forward, to act as a crane. The tang has to be long enough and strong enough so you can mount a very strong swivel block on it that is completely clear of the forestay. You can then run the halyard through it externally, and not have to worry about exit holes weakening your mast. You will probably need to add some cleats P & S for the new halyard. You will also want to figure out how to work a winch into the equation in case it fills 10' from the top and starts to hoist your crew off the deck. 12 sec/ mile is a LOT.


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## Tweegs (Jun 25, 2010)

Appreciate the feedback.

Treilley- Yea, I spend a fair amount of time on those sites. Lots of good general info there, but not much on racing the boat.

Zz4gta- We've got a ton of work to do from a crew perspective. We're running a 144 phrf and really can't even sail to that. We know of one other Irwin 39 here in the State that has a 126 and wins. Tomorrow, weather permitting, we are bringing on a pro to help tune the rigging. Once that's done, it's all about us. New main last year, new 135% genny this year (both are Pentax, Mylar/Kevlar), feathering prop this year, new traveler, new Genoa lead tracks and cars, rigid vang&#8230;no excuses left, got to be us.

Seems I didn't take any pics when the mast was down. I need to send someone up to adjust the windex anyway, I'll have him snap a few while he's up there.

I assume the crane would have to be a custom fab. Easy enough, plenty of machinists here at work that owe me a favor. The question then becomes how much load would be on it. (40 footer with an appropriate size asym).

I keep looking at the bow and wondering how I would put on a sprit or get a block out there. Have a look:


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## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

It looks like your forestay goes to the stemhead or very close. Presumably there is something there for an anchor roller to which you can attach a pulley for the tack line. You may have to as I did have a small extension to this made but this was to get some separation for a furler.
A furler has some advantages, but also means the tack line is fixed in length which is ok but not optimal for racing.
You also need to clear the pulpit. That would probably mean that the tack is not attached directly to the stemhead, rather the tack line allows it to project out and up. To me that is an advantage as a cruiser in terms of visibility.
To a racer you would probably want a smallish removable prod. Harken make them in various sizes. You would probably need to reinforce the deck where it attaches.
On that size boat the forces would be substantial at all 3 points tack head and clew. However since you are obviously prepared to spend money on racing that may be your best option.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

Chris mentions setting up a sprit of some sort to handle the tack of the A-sail. Make sure it's strong enough. Rode in a launch on Friday with crew from a boat (Evelyn 32?) that rigged up their own A-sail sprit. They said their first two sprits had had...longevity issues. You're dealing with a big sail on a heavy boat. Using the anchor roller may work - but it is designed more to handle downward (anchor) forces, not upward (sail) strains. 
All in all, you may be able to spend several thousand dollars setting up the hardware, and another several thou on the sail. On an Irwin 39, this may give you an extra knot on reaches, compared to a big genoa. The cost/benefit ratio starts to look very tight from this angle.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

If you want to race dont listen to this advice about flying an asym off your bow - that would be a slow and losing proposition. An asym is all about sail area, you need an extra 6 or more feet in your sail's foot, or you wont have enough sail area to power your boat. an asym for racing should have something like twice the area of a cruising chute, which flys off the stem. You dont need a small sprit, you need a BIG sprit. Take a look at these:
Carbomax Carbon Bowsprit
Selden Bowsprit Kits

You should talk to a local sailmaker who makes racing sails, for advice on sprit length and target sail area for racing.

If you dont do the asym right , go with a traditional symmetric with a pole, it is a much simpler fit and size question.

You can find spinnaker cranes here:
Masthead Spinnaker Bails


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

For a boat of the Irwin 39's displacement (17,000 lbs ?) the Selden kit using a 99mm aluminum tube offers a "maximum unsupported" length of about 41 inches. Their carbon fiber or other aluminum sprits would not safely extend even that far on such a heavy boat. Adding 6' to the sail's foot length is going to get pretty pricey. The Evelyn 32 we saw Friday displaces perhaps 5000 pounds, and their permanently mounted sprit extended about 3' beyond the stemhead.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

One of the things you might want to look at is jib size. I am pretty surprised that you are only using a 135. In the conditions you describe I would have a 155 up on pretty much every boat I race.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

It sounds like you are getting serious about setting your boat up for racing. If you are determined to go with an A-kite then you should definitely go with a sprit. Flying it from the tack is for cruising spinnakers. If you are planning on getting a full sized chute, you are talking about alot of power and alot of load, and that may call for a stayed sprit.

I am sure the sistership that is racing and winning at 129 is running a symetrical chute. If you really want to make your boat competitive THAT is what you should be thinking about.

I converted my boat to asymetric, but if I was going to campaign it seriously I would go back to the symetric!


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## Tweegs (Jun 25, 2010)

At 19k displacement she’s a heavy beast, and very tender. She’ll go over 25 to 30 degrees without much thought or provocation at all. Given that, we had the sail maker (Doyle) come out and look at the boat, do some research, and come up with a custom designed pair of sails. The main has a large roach to help get us moving in light air, the jib is a #2 cut like a #1. A 155 would start to over power the boat, as a rough guess, in about 7 or 8 knots of air. We start to get overpowered in 12 knots with the 135 and need to bring the jib cars back a touch to twist off the leech, spill a little air. By 15 knots we have to take in a bit of jib and/or stick a reef in the main, 18 knots for sure we are reducing sails, both of them. 

Having a 155 out there then, on a roller furl, we’d have it furled in to 135 or less much of the time, creating a bag-o-sail out there on the forestay, which would (and does) limit our pointing ability. It would, however, be great on a light air reach or downwind run, and this is where the a-sail comes in. The 135 fits the conditions for a little better than half of the time we are on the water, racing or not, but we could use something to fill the gap when the winds drop below 8 knots.

My tactician has been racing for the past 4 decades, the mere mention of putting a symmetrical on causes him to go pale. Of course, I’m sure much of it has to do with us being a rookie crew, but still, if he’s unnerved by it…

The boat was originally billed as a racer/cruiser, we’re talking Ted Irwin after all. Why it didn’t come with a third halyard baffles me some. The goal isn’t so much to turn it into a flat out race boat, but to a make it a reasonably fast, easy to handle, cruiser that can be somewhat competitive in the local beer can circuit with similar boats.

The Bay-Mac race starts this weekend and we’ve been frantically trying to get in touch with that sister ship. At this point we don’t know if she’s racing or not, but she makes berth in Port Huron, where the race starts. Thought we would drive up and watch the start and combine that with a look-see at the other Irwin.

Appreciate the links for the sprit and mast hardware, wasn’t having much luck finding them on my own.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

SchockT said:


> ...
> I converted my boat to asymetric, but if I was going to campaign it seriously I would go back to the symetric!


this sounds like it might be a good thread... did you fit a sprit, how large a asym, using a furler? Do you use it for daysailing?

This is something more folks should be doing...


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## captbillc (Jul 31, 2008)

i have a 12' carbon fiber 4" dia. retractable bowsprit that swivels side to side on curved track at the rear. on the top front of the mast is a bail with a strong swivel block and a external halyard. this works very well with either of my two asymmetrical spinnakers on my 30ft nimble express.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

I designed a 3' aluminum retractable sprit that uses the existing stay sail car and track on the inboard end. The outboard end slides through a stainless collar pinned to the stem fitting using the same pin as the forestay. I have a block on the end of the pole that swivels on the centerline of the pole to avoid any torquing of the pole. I used one of my old guys for the tack line so it is long enough to douse the sail into the companionway just by blowing the tackline from the cockpit. The sail is relatively small (code 4) but still plenty powerful. It was cut a bit short on the hoist to allow for a sock or furling but I haven't got either yet. I launch it out of a racing style box bag clipped to the lifelines. We use it whenever the wind is right for it. It is very effective in lighter breeze where the genoa just isn't quick enough. I haven't used it in strong breeze much because the headsail can get us to hull speed easily.


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