# barber hauler question



## bkw

can anybody describe or have a picture of how the barber hauler is used to move the jib lead outboard? do you have to have the lead out of the track on a short line?


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## paulk

A barber-hauler is usually a block with a tail on it. The jibsheet goes through the block before going through its usual jib lead. The tail gets led to a rail or other strong outboard point like an eye, (perhaps through another block and to a winch) and then to a cleat, so it can be adjusted. It's usually easier to adjust the barber-hauler before trimming the sheet but on some headings, some systems have enough muscle to do it after.


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## sailingdog

It may even have a block and tackle on the end of the block, rather than just a tail.


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## jackdale

Is this what you want?

I use a spinnaker guy with a snap shackle.


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## bkw

ok got it. a lead attached to a line going through a snatch block at the rail and back to the **** pit where it can be adjusted and cleated.
thanks


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## davewild

*jib trim*

Just as a suggestion, I would think you would use barber haulers on a headsail when off the breeze. An old friend at my local yacht club sometimes uses his spinnaker pole set to leeward to good effect. I've not tried it myself but he is a pretty clever yachtie(he was on Southern Cross in the '74 Americas Cup). He uses this if to tight for a spinnaker or if short handed. All it would take to give it a try is a spinnaker pole and a snoter ring to clip it to. Might be worth a try. Let me know what you think/results if you try.


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## sailingdog

Of course, barberhaulers make a lot more sense on a multihull, where you really have the beam to make good use of them... going downwind...


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## jackdale

I assume that the spin is mounted athwartships.


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## paulk

*When to use*



davewild said:


> Just as a suggestion, I would think you would use barber haulers on a headsail when off the breeze. .


That makes sense. It opens up the slot between the main and jib, allowing more air to go through without backwinding the main. You might also want to use them upwind in heavier air, if the main is getting too much backwind and you don't have a smaller jib to switch to right away. Some new boats are being set up without any tracks for jib leads. They use sets of barber-haulers attached to padeyes in the deck to place the clew of the sail wherever they want it - in/out/forward and/or back. It's lighter than a track with cars (and adjusting lines) and probably less expensive too.


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## davewild

jackdale said:


> I assume that the spin is mounted athwartships.


Spinnaker pole is set up as if you were "goose winging" then gybed the main only. Then head up to fill jib/genoa and onto your course. I'm not sure how high you would be able to carry this into the breeze but he swears by it(calls it his turbo-charger). I am guessing but I think height would be dependant on fullness of sail and length of pole.


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## bkw

the reason i asked about the barber hauler was because of back winding main when on a beat. i suggested easy the genoa a couple of inches but that was rejected. they want everything strapped so tight. we dont practice so theres no way to see if their would be any gains in doing that. pointing vrs speed. how do you know unless you try?
thanks for the replies


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## jackdale

A little bit of luff in the main is OK. During the race, checking the knotmeter helps determine the effects of changes to the sail trim. 

Jack


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## bkw

yes i am trying to get the skipper used to carrying a bubble in the main. he and one other crew member dont like it. as long as its not flogging i think the air is still attached. you see it all the time on the top boats. i have to over sheet to stop the bubble from luffing. thus the barber hauler idea. yes i am always watching true wind speed and boat speed.


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## Saildoggie

A "speed bump' in the main luff while beating is perfectly acceptable, ugly is fast as we sometimes say!!


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## jackdale

BTW - one other thing. It seems to me that hardening the main to remove the luffing might introduce some weather helm, that will turn the rudder into a brake. 

Jack


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## SEMIJim

Let me see if I can explain this such that it makes sense .

A barber hauler is used when sailing off the wind, to bring the foresail's clew closer to the centerline of the boat and close the leech, while still allowing the sail to be full, providing more power.

Jim


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## allene222

This is an old thread but I just found it so others might. Keep the jib in tight and let the main have a bubble in it. When on the wind, sail to the jib and use the main to set the heel of the boat. As they say, the jib is the engine and the main the throttle. The barberhauler is for off the wind. Some people use an inhauler to pull the jib inboard for on the wind, which would make the bubble issue worse. Another point, maximum lift occurs with a smooth sail. Drag increases as a sail is sheeted in. Maximum forward force occurs when the sail is off of maximum lift so that the drag is reduced. You can picture that in that lift decreases when the sail is sheeted in or let out. Thus, right at maximum lift there is no change in forward force for small changes in sheet position. As long as the decrease due to sheeting out is less than the decrease in drag, it is a good tradeoff. Then you go more than that, you lose more lift than you gain in reduced drag and that is where you should stop. This will produce a small bubble in the main. Thus, the small bubble is fast. In addition, with enough wind you start to have significant side slip. This calls for more bubble and ultimately a flogging main. Cheers.


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## Classic30

Good post, Allene - and welcome to Sailnet. 

..though I, for one, am not convinced that "the small bubble is fast" idea is the BEST anyone can do.

From what I've read and am seeing down-under, many crack racing yachts are going away from overlapping genoas (that cause the bubble in the fist place) back to almost self-tacking jibs - the theory being that, for anything other than really light winds, a smaller headsail will allow ALL the main to work - not just 90% of it - whilst getting a better rating.

Cheers,


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## puddinlegs

bkw said:


> the reason i asked about the barber hauler was because of back winding main when on a beat. i suggested easy the genoa a couple of inches but that was rejected. they want everything strapped so tight. we dont practice so theres no way to see if their would be any gains in doing that. pointing vrs speed. how do you know unless you try?
> thanks for the replies


Don't use a barber hauler going to weather. The increase in sheeting angle will kill your boat's ability to point. What wind velocity and sails are you having this issue? #1 or #2 gen? What kind of boat? Lot's of variables for sure. What's going on with main trim? Fractional rig? Mast head?

Ask the main trimmer to try putting on a little vang... sometimes that will get rid of the bubble quickly. Whether it's fast or not, that's what VMG will tell you.


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## maxmunger

I think yous guys are going in the wrong direction...try a definition first.

Barber Hauler, A line attached to the jib or jib sheet, used to adjust the angle of sheeting by pulling the sheet toward the centerline of the boat.

Note that it pulls the sheet toward the center of the boat, not outward.

To move the jib lead outward you need an outside track and an outside sheet or just put out a pole to leeward. The picture above shows just such an outside lead.


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## RichH

When pulled in towards the centerline the barber hauler allows precision distance between the jib & main so that the correct aerodynamic 'dumping velocity' occurs at the exit of the 'slot' .... where the boats resultant speed and pointing ability (best VMG) is optimized. many ways to 'barber haul' ... multiple jib tracks and transverse tracks/travellers, etc.

As regards a 'happy bubble' ..... totally OK if the max boat velocity is attained as the 'bubble' is only a vectorial 'cancellation' of the aerodynamic circulation flow around both sails within the 'so called' slot, where the forward flow component of circulation on the windward side of the jib is greater than the aft direction flow over the lee of the main .... and the jib flow is predominating. The speedo (& VMG) is the validating instrument when the circulation flows are showing a 'happy bubble'.

Article that explains 'dumping velocity' for the layman: http://www.arvelgentry.com/techs/The Aerodynamics of Sail Interaction.pdf


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## Starheart

Hartley18 said:


> Good post, Allene - and welcome to Sailnet.
> 
> ..though I, for one, am not convinced that "the small bubble is fast" idea is the BEST anyone can do.
> 
> From what I've read and am seeing down-under, many crack racing yachts are going away from overlapping genoas (that cause the bubble in the fist place) back to almost self-tacking jibs - the theory being that, for anything other than really light winds, a smaller headsail will allow ALL the main to work - not just 90% of it - whilst getting a better rating.
> 
> Cheers,


I have been reading that a large genoa does not make the boat faster since it actually interferes with the pressure distribution on the lee side of the main. The majority of the power in a headsail or a mainsail is near the luff, since that is where the pressure is most negative. I have much more to read about that though.


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## Starheart

RichH said:


> When pulled in towards the centerline the barber hauler allows precision distance between the jib & main so that the correct aerodynamic 'dumping velocity' occurs at the exit of the 'slot' .... where the boats resultant speed and pointing ability (best VMG) is optimized. many ways to 'barber haul' ... multiple jib tracks and transverse tracks/travellers, etc.
> 
> As regards a 'happy bubble' ..... totally OK if the max boat velocity is attained as the 'bubble' is only a vectorial 'cancellation' of the aerodynamic circulation flow around both sails within the 'so called' slot, where the forward flow component of circulation on the windward side of the jib is greater than the aft direction flow over the lee of the main .... and the jib flow is predominating. The speedo (& VMG) is the validating instrument when the circulation flows are showing a 'happy bubble'.
> 
> Article that explains 'dumping velocity' for the layman: http://www.arvelgentry.com/techs/The Aerodynamics of Sail Interaction.pdf


Excellent post!

Wow, dig the analog plotter in the photo of that article!

On my Star Class boat, the barber haul is a track athwartships that carries the jib block, with more modern Stars having another track perpendicular nearest the centerline of the boat for moving the first track fore and aft.


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## COOL

Starheart said:


> I have been reading that a large genoa does not make the boat faster since it actually interferes with the pressure distribution on the lee side of the main. The majority of the power in a headsail or a mainsail is near the luff, since that is where the pressure is most negative.


That may be true in theory, but in practice 
an overlapping genoa is often faster.
There is a trend towards non-overlapping headsails,
partially driven by IRC ,in the latest generation 
of Gran Prix boats. But even these boats will use
a Code Zero or Mashead genoa upwind in light air.
You may also note that the BMW Oracle tri, likely
the most refined sailing craft ever, often
used headsails with quite a bit of overlap.


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## Starheart

COOL said:


> That may be true in theory, but in practice
> an overlapping genoa is often faster.
> There is a trend towards non-overlapping headsails,
> partially driven by IRC ,in the latest generation
> of Gran Prix boats. But even these boats will use
> a Code Zero or Mashead genoa upwind in light air.
> You may also note that the BMW Oracle tri, likely
> the most refined sailing craft ever, often
> used headsails with quite a bit of overlap.


Yeah, I'm still reading a lot about this stuff, mostly Arvel Gentry's articles. I don't know where I got the idea that a genoa is not faster than a normal jib.


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## Jeff_H

What you may have heard and been thinking is that a large genoa is less efficient (meaning more heeling and drag for the same amount of drive), but in lighter air or deeper sailing angles it may be faster. 

The way that modern race boats are designed, they start out with a comparatively large and efficient standing sail plan relative to their drag and so rarely need more sail area beating or even close reaching even in light air, but they generally fly large reaching sails as soon as they are broad off the wind. 

Jeff


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## Starheart

Jeff_H said:


> What you may have heard and been thinking is that a large genoa is less efficient (meaning more heeling and drag for the same amount of drive), but in lighter air or deeper sailing angles it may be faster.
> 
> The way that modern race boats are designed, they start out with a comparatively large and efficient standing sail plan relative to their drag and so rarely need more sail area beating or even close reaching even in light air, but they generally fly large reaching sails as soon as they are broad off the wind.
> 
> Jeff


I guess the drive from something like an asymmetrical spinnaker is greater than the drag also otherwise they wouldn't use them.


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