# S2 9.2c - for liveaboard - thoughts?



## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

So I went to see an S2 9.2c yesterday (as well as a few others that I didn't trust). It seemed to be in excellent condition. Everything was clean, rigging tight, no corrosion (with one exception I'll list), interior is clean (walls carpeted which worries me a little, but there were no signs of water intrusion).

1. The steering wheel mount (under/behind the aft cabin berth) was corroded a bit. Didn't look structural, but what do I know? The ground cable looked like it had failed so I suspect it was caused by a weak ground. Again, didn't look structural, but I don't really know these things.
2. The bilge on the 9.2c is directly under the motor, several feet down. There is no other access. The bilge pump is mounted on a stick and was sneakily fed down through any openings between the motor and bilge. I thought I saw a rag at the bottom, but it's a long way down. I didn't want to reach in (who knows what lives down there). After looking through the rest of the boat, I was very surprised at this poor access.
3. No holding tank installed. The (suspiciously new) electric head and macerator pump overboard. Easy to fix, but I'm not sure why there's no holding tank on such a nice boat, especially one moored near Vancouver. Pumping overboard is illegal nearly everywhere here. I have to assume there was a holding tank that was removed, but the owner said there was not.

This is really my only concern. When something is brand new or missing, I just want to know why. The Morgan OI 41 I checked out was missing fuel tanks. I'm confident this is because they were outfitted with steel tanks from factory, and just corroded out, but the owner dodged the question repeatedly so I have to assume he's hiding something. Not sure if the same suspicion is warranted on this S2.

Sails are all relatively new. Given the demeanour/personality of the owner, the boat is probably very well kept. He says he's selling because his wife and him are moving aboard a bigger boat (already purchased).

The 9.2c is extremely well laid out (it's 30x10' are twice the size of the 37x10 of the columbia), but this also means the designer didn't leave any nook or cranny unused. There is about zero room for additional gear aside from a 2.5'x3' locker in the aft cabin (currently holds a water heater that is not in service). Everything else is very well accounted for.

The only other thing that worried me was that the flooring had all been redone, and I believe it was because the compression post had sunk. From factory, the compression post is held up by a 2x4 ($%&^$&*). The owner ripped it out and beefed it up substantially, but should I be worried about what may have happened to the deck if that compression post had sunk an inch before he caught it?

Thoughts on this $26k boat? (for liveaboard)


























































Original Ad:

_Accommodations:
- Double V-Berth, forward and roomy, original upholstery in good condition
- Main Salon, has two comfortable settees with original upholstery in good condition, Cole woodstove and over 6'+ of generous headroom
- Galley, with stainless steel gimballed 2 burner propane stove and oven, pressurized cold water, plumbed for pressurized hot water, electric ice box
- Head, 3 piece with a sits shower, new electric head installed 2010
- Aft Cabin, spacious! with 6' headroom, double berth, original upholstery
Equipment:
- CD/AM/FM Stereo, Oceanus DSC B 25 Watt VHF/FM marine transceiver, depth meter
- Electrical System, 110-115 volt AC (30 amp shore power), 50 power cord, 25 power cord, battery charger, 12 Volt DC (2 Deep Cell 6v marine batteries) 12 volt starter battery, New 60 amp alternator
Deck Equipment:
- New Mainsail cover 2012, New winch covers 2011, dodger in good condition
- Anchors; Bruce 20' chain, Kingston quick set 25'chain 200' rode
- New Burgee halyard 2011, rail mounted propane BBQ, swim ladder mounted on stern
Sails and Rigging:
- New Mainsail 2012, 100% working Jib VG condition, 140% Genoa Excellent condition, Gennaker good condition with spinnaker pole, Harken windward sheeting system upgrade 2009, all lines lead to cockpit for easy single handed sailing!
Additional Equipment:
Everything goes with the boat!
- Dock lines, fenders, fire extinguishers, brass clock and barometer, New propane tank and cover, 10' Endurance RIB tender (dingy)
Upgrades:
- New Starting battery 2012, New flooring installed throughout in 2011, Topside painted 2011, all deck hardware rebedded 2011, brightwork refinished 2011 - ( yearly), New Dyneema Lifelines 2011, New Beckson Rain Drain Port Lights 2008, hull painted 2005, zincs replaced 2010, mast/keel step upgraded with oak laminated with epoxy, stronger than factory 2010
This sailboat is ready to cruise!
Private moorage is available in Squamish!
Length: 30', Beam 10'.3", Draft 4'.11"
Year: 1980
Type: Cruiser, Hull: Fiberglass
Engine: 3109 hours, 2qm Yanmar Diesel Inboard, raw water intake, moored in freshwater since 1997_


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## cupper3 (Jun 30, 2010)

This model S2 is on my short list, and it looks like you found a good one.

Is that storage rack it rests on custom made? The pad supports do not look moveable, and if not custom, are the pads resting on bulkheads?

The mousefur looks in amazing condition. One thing your going have to contend with as a liveaboard, especially if your staying in the same area, is condensation. Why would it be worse? Cooking has an enormous impact, and the BC conditions especially in winter will cause higher condensation.

But for that comment, get the thing surveyed. It looks like the real deal.


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

IMHO a bit overpriced (early to mid 80's in the mid atlantic $14-20K) for a boat this age needing at a minimum some toilet work, but I did not see the actual boat, YMMV

I (just me) lived aboard a cal 25, then a cal 29 for a couple of years early on, that being said the S2 is laid out quite well for you, if you have a SO, though...may get a bit crowded at times, unless you are quite used to each other and small space living.

I would want to know more about the "why" of holding tank gone, flooring redone, compression post repair (who, what and why?), water heater not in "service", etc

Survey?


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

cupper3 said:


> This model S2 is on my short list, and it looks like you found a good one.
> 
> Is that storage rack it rests on custom made? The pad supports do not look moveable, and if not custom, are the pads resting on bulkheads?
> 
> ...


Not sure which storage racks you're speaking of. From what I've seen of other S2 (pictures only) this looks mostly stock layout, with added "mousefur?". We went to see it right after it had rained pretty heavily. I brought up the issue of the bilge because (forgot to mention) there was a bit of water under the floor, forward of the compression post. The bilge doesn't seem to get deep till pretty near the engine room. I was a little concerned that the water hadn't drained into the bilge. The water was fresh, and the owner had mentioned that he'd spilled some fresh water while installing new hoses on the fresh water tank in the v-berth. Just not sure why the water hadn't made it to the bilge.



kd3pc said:


> IMHO a bit overpriced (early to mid 80's in the mid atlantic $14-20K) for a boat this age needing at a minimum some toilet work, but I did not see the actual boat, YMMV
> 
> I (just me) lived aboard a cal 25, then a cal 29 for a couple of years early on, that being said the S2 is laid out quite well for you, if you have a SO, though...may get a bit crowded at times, unless you are quite used to each other and small space living.
> 
> ...


I did ask about all of those things. Water heater died years back (sprung a leak from the rad) and they just never needed it. All the connections are still there, but have bypassed the heater.
The holding tank.. I've no idea. I don't know if they were installed stock or not. I can't think of anywhere for them to go. The thru-hulls for the head seem to be stock. I saw no evidence of any work being done on them. If there was, it was very good work.
The compression post I asked about, but didn't think to press it. The owner said that the original support (2x4) was just old and had started to bow down. He brought in some house jacks to support the mast, ripped out the entire sub-floor and rebuilt it all after installing a heavier duty support. The whole place is carpeted now (I don't approve technically, but it sure is comfy) so I didn't tear up everything. The floor is made of epoxy drowned solid oak. The head-liner between the mast and compression post was not removeable so I couldn't check for stress cracks inside. Outside though everything looks tip top. No evidence of any work around the mast base unless the entire deck was repainted.


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## cupper3 (Jun 30, 2010)

blistovmhz said:


> Not sure which storage racks you're speaking of.


I was referring to the rack it is resting on when it was on the hard. It also looks like there is a circular repair patch on the keel, although that may just be the camera.


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

cupper3 said:


> I was referring to the rack it is resting on when it was on the hard. It also looks like there is a circular repair patch on the keel, although that may just be the camera.


I didn't even notice that. Thought it was lense flare or something on my screen. Will ask about it  thanks.

as for the rack, no idea. It's probably owned by the yacht club. They have a lot of similar size boats.


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## sea_hunter (Jul 26, 2000)

Decent boat, go for it.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Survey and have the engine looked at by a mechanic.

One thing I wished I had done was have my engine looked over with a fine tooth comb by a someone who specializes in that engine. Not that he would have found anything that would have effected the price, but, the laundry list of little things that are coming up could have all been attended to without me discovering them one at a time.


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

I was on one about a year ago, seemed like alot of room! I plan on living on an Alberg 30 so that S2 is a mansion in comparison...I say go for it! 


the less stuff you have...the less stuff you have to worry about!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

The S2 is a nice boat under sail, too. Deck stepped mast, center cockpit, perhaps not ideal for ocean crossings but I don't think that's an issue here. it looks to be in good condition and decks can flex without damage, but you need a professional opinion as to whether there was or is damage, and whether the new paint and flooring hides anything.

The one I was on didn't have the Jacuzzi, so perhaps in those golden days the factory offered a Jacuzzi or a holding tank, your choice, only room for one or the other, and you know how that goes.

I'm not a fan of carpet (holds moisture) on a boat, but as long as it is in good shape, I'd say ignore it because pulling it all off and scrubbing the glue off and refinishing all the surfaces, ugh, days of dusty work.

You like the boat, it looks clean, argue about price, give the man a deposit, and get a survey. The price might be high but "condition condition condition" if the boat really is solid and sail-away ready...That's hard to find too.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

cupper3 said:


> I was referring to the rack it is resting on when it was on the hard.


Around here we call that rack a cradle.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Blis, that S2 is a much better liveaboard boat than a trimaran, but you are right, storage is at a premium. However, if the previous owners can live on it, you can too. a holding tank is not impossible to add.


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## cupper3 (Jun 30, 2010)

bljones said:


> Around here we call that rack a cradle.


My concern was that the pads are not adjustable, and therefore could not be aligned with any bulkheads. There doesn't appear to be any deflection of the fiberglass, so maybe it is not an issue, but certainly not the preferred way of storage.


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

hellosailor said:


> You like the boat, it looks clean, argue about price, give the man a deposit, and get a survey. The price might be high but "condition condition condition" if the boat really is solid and sail-away ready...That's hard to find too.


My thoughts as well. I have two other S2's to check out first (another 9.2c in WA for $19k and an 8.0c for $5500 in Point Roberts), but if neither look good, I'll call the owner and tell'm exactly that. Will give'm a deposit for sale, pending survey and a sea trial. Sure wish I knew how to sail


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

cupper3 said:


> My concern was that the pads are not adjustable, and therefore could not be aligned with any bulkheads. There doesn't appear to be any deflection of the fiberglass, so maybe it is not an issue, but certainly not the preferred way of storage.


This was just for the haul-out. It was in the water when I saw it.


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

bljones said:


> Blis, that S2 is a much better liveaboard boat than a trimaran, but you are right, storage is at a premium. However, if the previous owners can live on it, you can too. a holding tank is not impossible to add.


Still going to look at the Tri this afternoon. Told the owner I suspected it'd be too small for me and to just let me know when she had a bunch of viewings lined up so I'm not wasting her time. She's apparently got about 15 people coming today. wtf.
I REALLY like the deck space of the tri. Most of my stuff can be outside anyway. But that 6' naught headroom is probably a deal breaker for me. We'll see. I don't have the $26k for the S2 in my pocket just yet, but I'm only a few days away if I need it. I hate to break the bank for this. Scary proposition.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

That is a really nice example, and they do look like they would make a nice liveaboard. Not the best looking boat, but they are known for being quite strong. The 11.0 was on the 20 affordable boats to take you anywhere, though he favored the aft cockpit, but the center sure seems to have nice livable space. 

I am sure it came with a holding tank originally as it was the law by then, likely under the seat in the sit tub. The shower is one of the real benefits of that layout, as the aft cockpit has a more traditional head, without the separate shower. While that one appears to be very clean, I do think the price is quite high and you should be able to find the 11.0 for that price. Also since it has original upholstery it does not look like there has been much upgrading, except for the improperly installed head and carpet. Might not be too bad if it has very recent rigging and sails.


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

miatapaul said:


> That is a really nice example, and they do look like they would make a nice liveaboard. Not the best looking boat, but they are known for being quite strong. The 11.0 was on the 20 affordable boats to take you anywhere, though he favored the aft cockpit, but the center sure seems to have nice livable space.
> 
> I am sure it came with a holding tank originally as it was the law by then, likely under the seat in the sit tub. The shower is one of the real benefits of that layout, as the aft cockpit has a more traditional head, without the separate shower. While that one appears to be very clean, I do think the price is quite high and you should be able to find the 11.0 for that price. Also since it has original upholstery it does not look like there has been much upgrading, except for the improperly installed head and carpet. Might not be too bad if it has very recent rigging and sails.


What's wrong with the head? Just the fact that it's piped outboard?

The rigging/sails looked very good, but again, I know very little. Need to take someone who knows these things with me next time.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

That boat has been for sale off & on for quite a while - offer less.


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## Jgbrown (Mar 26, 2012)

Better than that tri! 

The side benefits of the boat may be worth it(location and slip).
I'd make the sale conditional on slip and see what he says..


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## Marcel D (Apr 15, 2012)

She looks like a nice boat look us up in the golf islands and or des.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

blistovmhz said:


> What's wrong with the head? Just the fact that it's piped outboard?
> 
> The rigging/sails looked very good, but again, I know very little. Need to take someone who knows these things with me next time.


Well if it is feed directly outboard, yes, that is a problem. I know in the US that has been illegal since the 1970's I believe it was part of the clean water act. I don't know about Canada, but it would limit your cruising quite a bit. I know in the Caribbean they have quite a lot of boats without. Many choose to not use there holding tanks, but that is a choice one has to make. The Coast Guard here will look for this in safety inspections and fine accordingly. If there was no tank at all there would unlikely even be a warning.


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

SloopJonB said:


> That boat has been for sale off & on for quite a while - offer less.


Orly? WHere?


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

blistovmhz said:


> Orly? WHere?


Kijiji and/or Craigslist - I first saw it listed months ago, possibly even last year.


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

Hrm. Recall the price?


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

blistovmhz said:


> Hrm. Recall the price?


Not really - IIRC it started in the thirties but I can't be sure.


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

SloopJonB said:


> Not really - IIRC it started in the thirties but I can't be sure.


Thanks! Now I can go back to the owner and ask him how long the boats been listed. Most lie. This guy I think will be honest, but I always like to know.


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## SeaQuinn (Jul 31, 2012)

I have an S2 9.2 Center Cockpit. The holding tank on some was under the starboard side setee. On ours it is under the closet in the aft stateroom. 
We recently moved ours from a lake to a marina on the chesapeake. It has new bottom paint and all new wiring done recently.

The fabric on the walls and ceiling was also factory installed and has held up surprisingly well...it has not come lose nor is it prone to moisture or mold. These boats were very well made!

We just bought another boat soooo....ours may hit the market soon. We still have a few things we want to do though.


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## Mobnets (Apr 24, 2011)

Regarding the original post and pictures. Has anybody noticed there's a different paint job between the picture of the boat at anchor and the picture of the boat on the hard? Cove stripe has disappeared on the picture of the boat on the cradle.

Mobnets
1973 Paceship Chance 32/28 "Westwind"


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## cupper3 (Jun 30, 2010)

Mobnets said:


> Regarding the original post and pictures. Has anybody noticed there's a different paint job between the picture of the boat at anchor and the picture of the boat on the hard? Cove stripe has disappeared on the picture of the boat on the cradle.
> 
> Mobnets
> 1973 Paceship Chance 32/28 "Westwind"


Good eye. I wonder if when it was on the hard if that was the 'before' shot? Notice that the keel appears to have a round spot on it that could be a repair or prep area.


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

Mobnets said:


> Regarding the original post and pictures. Has anybody noticed there's a different paint job between the picture of the boat at anchor and the picture of the boat on the hard? Cove stripe has disappeared on the picture of the boat on the cradle.
> 
> Mobnets
> 1973 Paceship Chance 32/28 "Westwind"


Heh. The stripe is new. Currently on the boat. Talked to the owner. Said the spot in photo is from camera. I asked around a bit and no one recalls any major work being done to the keel. Just new gelcoat. The owner assured me that if I do buy it, I can haul it out and won't see the spot.

I also asked though about the engine having no oil pan. As the bilge access is right below the engine, it's difficult to see what's going on down there. This was the only major concern for me as there looked to be a bit of oil coating the sides of the bilge. Owner says the motor does leak a few drops every few months but that oil changes show no noticeable decrease in levels. He apparently put some oil absorbant in the bilge (which is that rag I thought I saw). Thoughts on this?


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

blistovmhz said:


> there looked to be a bit of oil coating the sides of the bilge. Owner says the motor does leak a few drops every few months but that oil changes show no noticeable decrease in levels. He apparently put some oil absorbant in the bilge (which is that rag I thought I saw). Thoughts on this?


That's why oil absorbers, diapers etc. were invented - I've never yet seen a boat that didn't have SOME oil under the engine, even if it was only spilled when filling it.

You can tell at a glance if there's been a lot of oil down there or just some weeping, minor spillage etc.


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

SloopJonB said:


> That's why oil absorbers, diapers etc. were invented - I've never yet seen a boat that didn't have SOME oil under the engine, even if it was only spilled when filling it.
> 
> You can tell at a glance if there's been a lot of oil down there or just some weeping, minor spillage etc.


 Thanks. That alleviates my only concern with this boat other than "I still can't find liveaboard moorage anywhere that allows pets".


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

blistovmhz said:


> Thanks. That alleviates my only concern with this boat other than "I still can't find liveaboard moorage anywhere that allows pets".


You've found SOME form of liveaboard moorage? Scratch that, you've found MOORAGE? Around HERE?


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## steveg353 (Jun 17, 2008)

We used to charter one of these for the weekend a few years back before owning our own.
It was a fun boat to sail and comfortable with the aft berth.
One thing I remember well is that the holding tank was not much bigger than a dixie cup.
I don't know how much volume it actually holds but it was not much...at all.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

That sure is a nice boat. I can't speak to the price vs. the condition, but if it's a fair deal, I'd go for it.

It really looks comfortable, well equipped and well maintained. It is aesthetically pleasing, someone else in the thread says it even sails well. Living aboard such a boat would be a real adventure.


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

SloopJonB said:


> You've found SOME form of liveaboard moorage? Scratch that, you've found MOORAGE? Around HERE?


Yea, finding moorage isn't all that difficult. Most of the Marina's still haven't discovered the Internet (which would make it much easier), but those who have all seem to have a few slips open. There's lots up the Fraser, always a couple in False Creek. All the liveaboard is up the creek which kinda sucks. I'd rather be in the middle of squamish than the Edge of Vancouver.


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## Bluerain (Apr 21, 2013)

Somewhat old thread but I found this thread because I was looking up that exact boat actually. It's for sale again, seems to me it's the same owners, so they've been trying to sell it for 1-2 or more years?

I contacted them and asked about their price flexibility, since if the boat isn't selling it either has problems (which it doesn't seem to) or it's not priced properly for the market. they said "we've had it surveyed and our price is dead on".

I can see why they haven't managed to sell the boat in several years of trying...


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Ask them for a copy of the survey.


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## Jgbrown (Mar 26, 2012)

Yup, they are dead set on the price. If it came with the slip it's in, it'd be well worth it, but the marina there has a rule about Vancouverites... They don't want an infestation. So you have to live in Squamish for x amount of time before you can get a slip.


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## Bluerain (Apr 21, 2013)

I think they're just super anal about what they think it's worth. I can understand if you've put money into something and hope to get it back, but as with most things, it's not reality. The ads here are filled with boats with survey prices that are way higher than the price they're up for sale for, hell a lot of them are asking for less than half their survey price. 

These people just seem to have an unrealistic view of what the market is. Though you'd think after 2 years or more of trying to sell, they'd start to wonder why it doesn't sell.


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## Jgbrown (Mar 26, 2012)

Sure, but I'd still be interested in paying close to asking price IF it came with a slip at that marina. I'd love to live there, but I'm not willing to quit working in Vancouver, or move up to Squamish for however many months I'd have to be there to be considered for membership.
I've talked with Ben(the OP) about a few boats as he's been looking at.

26k asking is not a big deal when the per year difference on moorage could be 6000$...

Likewise boats for sale in Spruce. They often sell at asking since slips there are so coveted.


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## blistovmhz (Jun 29, 2012)

Well, and all this said, the 9.2c is gone. Was a beautiful boat, would've been absolutely perfect for myself and my cats, and the location was far beyond ideal for me, but alas... My GF and her two horrible cats need space as well. I've been trying to convince her to get her own boat. She's tiny and the S2 8.0c would be perfect for her, and moorage on two slips in the club would still be trivial. She's not as excited about the proposition of two boats as I am, so I'm looking for something ... unfortunately larger.


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