# Tiller to Pedestal Steering Conversion



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hello,

I''ve looked high and low over the Internet for a used Pedestal Steering system, with out any luck. It seems that Edson Intl. is the predominant supplier of Pedestal Steering systems on new boats and they also offer a system for tiller conversion. 

However the steering systems they offer start at $1,200.00, which is a little out of range for my boat budget.

Does anyone know of a good source for after market pedestal steering systems? I.E. salvage yards, discount suppliers, etc.

Thanks,


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

What kind of boat are putting this on. depending on the layout, Yacht Systems makes a really nice rack and pinon setup that is supposedly less than Edson. There are some limitations to the installation such as needing a straight shot at the rudder quadrant for the pitman arm. 

For that matter, I am thinking of removing my wheel and converting back to a tiller but that probably won''t happen this season. 

Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks, for the reply. I have a Beneteau First 235. A straight shot to the rudder is possible, but the main thing I''m looking for is the pedestal. I was thinking of a hydrolic steering system. I just need the pedestal to mount everything in and on.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

With all due respect, there is no way in hell that I would ever suggest adding a wheel to a Beneteau First 235. These are really nice sailing boats that would absolutely be ruined by adding wheel steering. The cockpit is not configured for wheel steering so that anywhere you place a wheel your view of the headsails will be blocked or the cockpit will be encumbered. Adding a pedistal in the middle of a small cockpit will simply give you an obstacle to catch lines on, stumble around and trip over. 

In a breeze, small better performing boats, like the 235, count on surgical steering and helm imput to keep the boat in balance and at speed. This is not a racing issue. This is a basic safety issue. Adding wheel steering to a boat this small would take away this critical ability. 

Adding to the issues of adding wheel steering to a well balanced boat like the 235, is the really excessively bad idea of using a hydraulic system. Hydraulic systems are the system of last resort when a a boat gets too big, its rudder loads get to massive and its helm is remote from the rudder to permit any other system. These are almost no feel, high weight, high maintenance, high friction systems. They have no place on a boat with the kind of light helm of the 235. This goes far in excess of being a really bad idea. 

If you need a place to "mount everything in and on" I would suggest that the aft bulkhead of the cabin would make a lot more sense. If you want to add a table a couple sockets in the cockpit sole would allow for removable table legs. But I can''t recommend stongly enough against adding wheel steering or a pedistal in the middle of the cockpit to a really wonderful little boat like the 235. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Popeus:

What issue are you trying to solve with converting your First 235 to a wheel? If it is one of ease of steering because you cruise more than you race, a tiller pilot would be a much better investment. We had an Autohelm 2000 for our Beneteau First 325 and it worked great. You could take the helm when you wanted to experience the feel of sailing and flip to the pilot when you needed a break. The tiller pilots require no installation other than a 12 v. outlet and a bracket on the tiller and a mounted fitting for the removeable arm, all for about $800 if I''m not mistaken.


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## KIKO (Mar 10, 2002)

$ 399.99 + free shiping at Sailnet.com


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I have 21 foot northwest sloop. I’m just now learning to sail. But I can say that the number one pain I’m having is the Tiller taking up so much room in the cockpit. When it’s time to tack I make everyone go down below, so that I can steer.

KIKO... A link to that would help. 8)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Wow. That was 5 year old post


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## anchorsaweigh (Aug 19, 2000)

Call D&R Marine in Assonet, MA: D & R Marine

508-644-3001

Talk to Rudy. Rudy buys all of Edson's closeouts and offers them at huge discounts. I know he has a hundred or so wheels, tons of pedestals, and either has or can obtain discounted components to complete a steering system.

He recently bought out all of Alden Yachts parts warehouse. I'm heading down this weekend to see what kind of stuff I can spend my money on!

Cheers,

Bob


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Zantigo—

First off, you're asking a person who probably hasn't been on the forum in a long time to reply...and his post is over SIX YEARS OLD.

Second, a wheel setup on your boat would probably also make the boat's balance a bit off, by adding a significant amount of weight to the cockpit.


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

I know this is an old thread, but since I'm new and asking questions.. I will ask.

Some folks are saying don't add such things to small boats.

Is there some 'size limit' where having a wheel and pedestal is optimum for boat performance then?

I've seen boats that are 25 or 26 feet with wheels and with tillers. What is the reason? (Same kind of boat, but don't ask me what it was I don't remember)


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## Delirious (Dec 16, 2001)

For performance? It only helps that you "feel" the rudder better with a tiller. The boat doesn't care. Some boats have much more helm "feel" than others. Great for short races or keel hung rudders. It's all about convenience on cruisers. You can get mighty tired holding (aka "battling") the tiller in a wet and cold cockpit of a beamy boat with a spade rudder; especially on a reach.

Some boats just track well and some don't. A tiller on a well balanced boat that tracks well is a lovely thing. If you are fighting it constantly on a boat that wants to broach and round up it is a misery. If you're willing to reef or work at the sail trim it's not so bad, but most of us are lazy and/or take the lifts on gusty days as they come along..


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## WouldaShoulda (Oct 7, 2008)

More Tiller!!


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

RACE A J24 for 6-1/2 hours with a peak wind of over 20 knots and that wheel starts looking better all the time


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## WouldaShoulda (Oct 7, 2008)

tommays said:


> RACE A J24 for 6-1/2 hours with a peak wind of over 20 knots and that wheel starts looking better all the time


But you'll never get thiose Popeye arms you want!!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

If the boat was designed for tiller and had a wheel retrofitted, the balance of the boat may often be a bit off, since the pedestal and wheel add quite a bit of weight aft. Also, many cockpit soles are designed to take the strains that a steering pedestal will put on them, and as such will either need to be reinforced (if the job was done properly) or will have some serious issues in the long run (if they skimped on the installation).

Boats that are aimed towards more traditional sailors will often have a tiller. Boats that are aimed towards powerboat and novice sailors will often have a wheel, since a wheel is much more familiar to novice sailors and powerboaters. Sailors who came up through the dinghy ranks are used to tillers and have little or no problem using them.

For example: The MacGregor 26 has a wheel, and is designed as a hybrid-part sailboat, part powerboat, lousy at both IMHO. The Etchells 30 is basically a 30' keelboat that acts much like an oversized racing dinghy... and is tiller steered.



N0NJY said:


> I know this is an old thread, but since I'm new and asking questions.. I will ask.
> 
> Some folks are saying don't add such things to small boats.
> 
> ...


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

> For example: The MacGregor 26 has a wheel, and is designed as a hybrid-part sailboat, part powerboat, lousy at both IMHO. The Etchells 30 is basically a 30' keelboat that acts much like an oversized racing dinghy... and is tiller steered.


Cool. That's kind of what I was looking for.

Mine's got a tiller


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

N0NJY-

What kind of boat do you have???


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

Well, TECHNICALLY, no boat. Until Saturday.

We're picking up a "practice boat" Saturday morning, doing some work on it and putting it in a lake in the spring after we finish some classes.

The boat is a 1979 MacGregor Venture 25. It needs a bit of work, but it's intact and pretty clean.. ok, well, a bachelor owned it, it needs cleaning too... but it's in sailable condition right now. It's just getting to the point here in Colorado I don't think I want to take it out just yet. 

As I pointed out in my sign in message, I am not a sailor (and I think I mentioned that in some other messages too....) - I'm an "Airman" - or was, retired. I've been around boats a lot - and been on sailboats, but never actually sailed one. There's some more information in the introduction forum in my thread I started.


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

I have sailed a couple older Pearson's 28"s that were converted to wheels. Both used a hydraulic conversion. It was very sloppy steering. I would recommend a chain and cable system.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The older MacGregors were much better sailboats than the newer ones...The venture is a pretty good one...have fun with it. Probably geting chilly in Colorado. 


N0NJY said:


> Well, TECHNICALLY, no boat. Until Saturday.
> 
> We're picking up a "practice boat" Saturday morning, doing some work on it and putting it in a lake in the spring after we finish some classes.
> 
> ...


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

bubb2 said:


> I have sailed a couple older Pearson's 28"s that were converted to wheels. Both used a hydraulic conversion. It was very sloppy steering. I would recommend a chain and cable system.


Edson also offers a Link & Lever system - which we have on our current boat - that is very solid and has good feel. The wheel turns a ring and pinion, a vertical shaft in the column rotates a swing arm lever that is pushrod linked to an arm pinned to the rudder post. Very robust and no cable stretch/drag issues.

We are very pleased with it, and glad the PO changed out the old chain/cable setup.


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## Delirious (Dec 16, 2001)

We had a similar set-up on our Pearson 27. The rudder was hung on the transom and the wheel quadrant moved a lever arm hooked to a rigid arm which connected to the tiller. For someone new to a wheel (me) it was nice to be able to look back and see the rudder.


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> The older MacGregors were much better sailboats than the newer ones...The venture is a pretty good one...have fun with it. Probably geting chilly in Colorado.


It's getting wayyyy chilly here 

We're headed out at dawn tomorrow to go from Colorado Springs over to Gunnison - which is over the top of Monarch Pass. The pass is about 12000 feet. My Jeep won't have any problems hauling the boat and trailer on relatively flat land, but it isn't going to go over that pass with the boat on it.

Taking my son's Dodge Ram truck... man that's a big truck. Anyway, the owner has offered to bring her over the pass anyway, so we should be fine either way.

We plan to clean the boat up - it's is good shape, and I need to build a new tiller and rudder for her this winter, plus do some major rewiring. The original wiring on some of it is there, and it uses open fuse blocks sitting near gas tanks. Ummm no thanks  I don't need a floating bomb going out in the water with me.

Anyway, my wife has some plans, and Camradarie already suggested I change out the existing alcohol stove (since it's one of those pressure stoves).

He said they are incidents of those stoves with blowby or something. (They are similar to those you use on camping trips with a tank that is pressurized using a hand pump). I've never had trouble with those sorts of stoves (and I do a lot of camping with various types of small gas/alcohol stoves) but, I'll take the advice.

The rudder appears to have been snapped in half on this boat - probably hitting something. The tiller arm is well worn and starting to become a very dry kindling.  Anyway, I can do woodworking so the tiller arm is easy. Have to do some research on the type of rudder I should build though (be it wood, or some other material).


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## Banshi (Jul 4, 2007)

I have found two advantages with my pedestal that I would not want to do without on my boat. In heavy weather when I am sailing alone the wheel makes for a superior hand hold when sitting out on the windward rail and the pedestal itself makes for a great foot hold to keep you up on the rail and not constantly fighting the tendency to slide back into the cockpit.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Pressurized stoves are bit more dangerous on a boat, since corrosion is generally more of a factor. 

If you want to buy a rudder instead, you can always look at IdaSailor, which makes rudders for a lot of smaller sailboats.


N0NJY said:


> It's getting wayyyy chilly here
> 
> We're headed out at dawn tomorrow to go from Colorado Springs over to Gunnison - which is over the top of Monarch Pass. The pass is about 12000 feet. My Jeep won't have any problems hauling the boat and trailer on relatively flat land, but it isn't going to go over that pass with the boat on it.
> 
> ...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I find sliding isn't much of a problem in my cockpit... 



Banshi said:


> I have found two advantages with my pedestal that I would not want to do without on my boat. In heavy weather when I am sailing alone the wheel makes for a superior hand hold when sitting out on the windward rail and the pedestal itself makes for a great foot hold to keep you up on the rail and not constantly fighting the tendency to slide back into the cockpit.


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