# new to sailing



## artchie (Apr 29, 2018)

Hi my name is Arthur I live in Naples,Fl
Looking to buy1982 Ericson38 or 1983 tartan33
any opinion please?


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Welcome to sailing and to SailNet. It would be helpful to know more about what you plan to do with the boat once you own it. 

Speaking very generally, both of these boats are reasonably good designs that sail reasonably well. The Ericson 38 is a pretty big boat for a boat to learn to sail on an not an easy boat to single-hand (if that is in your plan). Build quality and equipage varies widely on these boats, but 1983 should have good build quality compared to the earlier boats. (A friend has an 83 Ericson 38 on my dock and I have gotten to crawl around inside it helping him with chores)

The Tartan 33 is a very nice boat. The fractionally rigged versions were easier boats to handle that sail well in broad range of conditions. 

I will note that these are pretty old boats and so unless the prior owner has been doing thorough maintenance and upgrades you should plan to budget half the purchase price of the boat for long term and deferred maintenance items.

Jeff


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## artchie (Apr 29, 2018)

Tank You so much for your response ,my plan is to sail and live on the boat for days or couple of weeks at time until I learn how to sail
The bat Ericson38,universal5432,convertible cutter rig with quick releaseand running back stays,hydrovane,electric windlass,heavy duty prevente for the boom,solar with blue sky controller.heavy duty cetek benmar auto pilot etc,need to move boat from Houston,Tx to Naples,Fl,so im loking for help too in that matter


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I respectfully suggest that is the wrong boat for your needs as a new sailor. That is way to much used, complex, past its use by date stuff and with an engine that is getting hard to get parts for, to be a good idea while you are learning to sail and maintain a boat. 

Jeff


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## artchie (Apr 29, 2018)

so the 1983 tartan 33 would be much easier


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## 508422 (Aug 26, 2018)

Welcome to Sailnet, That is a big first boat. We have a guy and our marina and his first boat ever, no other craft, not even a canoe was a Beneteau 43. It has gone ok. Dennis


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## artchie (Apr 29, 2018)

Thank You. Do you mean he is sailing this Beneteau43 rigth now.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

artchie said:


> so the 1983 tartan 33 would be much easier


Assuming that someone hasn't piled a giant pile of equipment on the Tartan 33, the Tartan would make a much better choice as a platform to learn how to sail and maintain a boat.

Jeff


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## artchie (Apr 29, 2018)

Thank You for your advice ,not much equipment at all,just basic


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

artchie said:


> Thank You for your advice ,not much equipment at all, just basic


Less equipment can sometimes be a good thing. If the price of the Tartan is considerably cheaper than the Erickson, that gives you a bargain that you can add upgrades to overtime. When I was shopping for boats, I noticed that often an owner thinks that their fully equipped boat is worth more than it is, when much of the equipment might be outdated.

The more basic boat, if the price is right, may offer you an option that is simpler and easier to sail, and you can upgrade the electronics and equipment over time, as money allows. That way you upgrade to the most current electronics and equipment, and the things that meet your needs the best.


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## 508422 (Aug 26, 2018)

artchie said:


> Thank You. Do you mean he is sailing this Beneteau43 rigth now.


Yes, steep learning curve but he has done quite well. Dennis


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

Welcome aboard! I'm just up the road in Tampa.

Naples is a great place to base out of and there are plenty of nice overnight and weekender destinations in easy reach. Also, you should have no problem finding a suitable boat on the Gulf Coast this time of year. 

There are also plenty of clubs, sailing schools, and charters that can give you some hands on sailing time that will aid your choice of boats. 

I subscribe to the simpler and smaller philosophy for a first boat. 35' and under is plenty of boat for a weekender or short costal trips. For the Gulf Coast I would consider keeping the draft to around four feet, more than that and you start to limit your options in gunkholes and marinas. Much more than that and you will find yourself really watching the tides. 

And I would be happy to help you move a boat on the gulf coast. Just give me a shout!


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## artchie (Apr 29, 2018)

Thanks to all of you for the advice,going to see boat in the next few days Tartan33 much cheaper than Ericson38and seems much simpler than Ericson., I can save money for the upgrades and repairs if I need it


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

artchie said:


> Tartan33 much cheaper than Ericson38and seems much simpler than Ericson., I can save money for the upgrades and repairs if I need it


I think that is a wise choice. If the boat is sound and solid, you can get into sailing right away while you improve your skills, and get to know the boat. I consider it a real plus that I found a good inexpensive boat that has very basic electronics. I look forward to building the communication and navigation system that best fits my needs, with new, current, up-to-date equipment.

Some boat owners I encountered, when I was shopping, had boats filled with lots of 8, 9, or 10 year old navigation and communication equipment. They thought that their equipment warranted a higher selling price. I saw some ads for boats that proudly showed pictures of radar systems with the old glass tube video display. I saw an ad a year ago for a boat that proudly listed, and pictured, a Loran-C navigation system. I don't think the owner had sailed his boat in a few years, to even know that there are no more Loran transmission stations left to support it.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Welcome to Sailnet and to sailing!

I'm going to agree with others here that a 'boat to learn to sail on' and a 'boat to live on' are competing priorities. It is generally easier to build your skills on a smaller boat. Smaller boats are also a lot less expensive to keep and maintain. If it's just you, 27-30 ft is generally considered the sweet spot for a first cruising boat, big enough for a long week trip, small enough to handle yourself, relatively inexpensive to keep.


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## artchie (Apr 29, 2018)

first boat long terms plans
1983 Tartan 33 or 1983 Cape Dory 33 than1987 Island Packet31 whitchone?


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## artchie (Apr 29, 2018)

needs to be able to singlehand


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

artchie said:


> first boat long terms plans
> 1983 Tartan 33 or 1983 Cape Dory 33 than1987 Island Packet31 whitchone?


The Island Packet 31 has been reviewed by Jack Hornor in Spinsheet magazine. He has also reviewed other Cape Dory and Tartan boats, but not the specific models you mentioned.






Boat Reviews







www.spinsheet.com





As people have said on here previously, it all depends on what kind of sailing you want to do. The Cape Dory 33 is a full keel boat and weighs 3000 pounds more than the Tartan 33, which is a Sheel keel boat.

If you do a search on here, and the other sailing forums, on "full keels vs. fin keels" you can read that debate. You will encounter some very strong opinions in favor of, and critical of, both types.

Here's one of the discussions.









Full Keel Vs. Fin or Modified Full Keel


I've been looking artound the threads and have not seen one that concisely answers my question, so I thought I'd start one. I'm narrowing my choices down, and it seems that most of my favorites have full keels. Can someone give me a down and dirty pro-con list for full keel sailboats versus...




www.sailnet.com


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## artchie (Apr 29, 2018)

im not asking about the keel but about these boats in general,any preferences or seaworthiness
Thank You


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

artchie said:


> im not asking about the keel but about these boats in general,any preferences or seaworthiness
> Thank You


Well, the type of keel and rudder affect how they handle, and the seaworthiness. Which do you favor?

I personally prefer an encapsulated partial keel. Some prefer the handling of a fin keel. Many people will tell you that a full keel boat is more solid, and therefore more seaworthy. Many will debate this.

Some people prefer the handling of a spade rudder. I believe that a rudder mounted on a skeg is sturdier, and less vulnerable to damage, if they hit something. I believe this qualifies them as more seaworthy. But some people debate this. Have you read the debates on these issues? What opinion have you formulated in your own mind?

Based on my 6 years of research, preparing to buy my boat, I believe that the Cape Dory 33 would be a more seaworthy boat because of it's full encapsulated keel, and rudder mounted on a skeg. But it will be less maneuverable, and slower in sailing.

I considered The Tartan 33 for a while, but decided against it, because of the spade rudder, which I feel is less substantial, and therefore less seaworthy. But many people like them and say they sail better than the Cape Dory.

Many people would consider the Cape Dory and Island Packet to be a blue water capable boats, partly because of their full keels, and skeg mounted rudders. Many would consider The Tartan 33 to be a coastal cruiser. What kind of sailing do you intend to do? Where would you like to go?

What's important to you, a boat that might be considered bomb-proof, but sails more slowly, or a boat that goes faster, but could be more vulnerable?


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## artchie (Apr 29, 2018)

Thank You so much for your valuable response,Im beginner to the world of sailing and about to buy a boat .I prefer full keel because of fear to go aground or hit something.not much care about the speed at all.I know full keel is less maneuverable but that is ok ,probably problems with docking something that i need to learn first also skeg ruderr i think thats the one i would choose.Thinking about sailing around Florida,Caribbeans


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Usually groundings are at pretty low speeds... because skipper is not observing chart plotter and or depth sounder.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

artchie said:


> I prefer full keel,..... not much care about the speed at all.I know full keel is less maneuverable but that is ok


You might want to try more sailing, before you settle on a boat. It's hard to know exactly what your preferences are until you have sailed a few. I read, and researched, about boats for 6 years before I purchased. I sailed five different boats in charters, four of them for one week each.

There are alternatives to full keel boats that offer some compromise between each ends of the spectrum, from full keel, to fin keel.



















You can say now, that you don't care about the speed, but until you have sat in the middle of the bay, on a nearly windless afternoon, and watched your sails lightly billowing, looking like they are filled with air, but you're going nowhere, there is no way to know how you'll feel about that, until you've experienced it.


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## 508422 (Aug 26, 2018)

I was going to disagree with MIDWESTERNER at first. But he is actually correct you really don't know until you have some sort of experience on each. This will be a personal experience based decision or a complete guess. I can tell you, in the steep chop of the Chesapeake Bay my wife gets sea sick on a fin keel boat, our new boat is full keel and now she does not. The lighter weight boats blow by un in lite wind but when it kick up and they reef we are just getting started. The thread someone mentioned is 43 pages long. You will not know anymore after going through that than you do now. Good luck, Dennis


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

MaxForce said:


> The thread someone mentioned is 43 pages long. You will not know anymore after going through that than you do now. Good luck, Dennis


I was the one who suggested that thread, and you are right, it is a lot to sort through. This is why I have taken six years to sort through all of the various different opinions to formulate my own opinions, and settle on the boat I finally settled on, that I believed to have the best characteristics and compromises for the type of sailing I will do, and for my family.


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## artchie (Apr 29, 2018)

midwesterner said:


> You might want to try more sailing, before you settle on a boat. It's hard to know exactly what your preferences are until you have sailed a few. I read, and researched, about boats for 6 years before I purchased. I sailed five different boats in charters, four of them for one week each.
> 
> There are alternatives to full keel boats that offer some compromise between each ends of the spectrum, from full keel, to fin keel.
> 
> ...





midwesterner said:


> You might want to try more sailing, before you settle on a boat. It's hard to know exactly what your preferences are until you have sailed a few. I read, and researched, about boats for 6 years before I purchased. I sailed five different boats in charters, four of them for one week each.
> 
> There are alternatives to full keel boats that offer some compromise between each ends of the spectrum, from full keel, to fin keel.
> 
> ...


You can say now, that you don't care about the speed, but until you have sat in the middle of the bay, on a nearly windless afternoon, and watched your sails lightly billowing, looking like they are filled with air, but you're going nowhere, there is no way to know how you'll feel about that, until you've experienced it.
[/QUOTE]


SanderO said:


> Usually groundings are at pretty low speeds... because skipper is not observing chart plotter and or depth sounder.


Thank You .You absolutely right I need more sailing experience Im about to finish ASA bareboat class,done class 1 and 2 already


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## artchie (Apr 29, 2018)

the pics you posted ,Is this Cape Dory boat?


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

IP 31 is a good choice for the Gulf Coast. A good friend of mine is about 10 years in on his, loves it. Shallow draft with a centerboard, and a skeg hung rudder. However, there is a lot of teak topside, it seems like he's always sanding and finishing his woodwork.


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## artchie (Apr 29, 2018)

Thank You, I think finishing woodwork require lots experience how to varnish teak,sand, paint etc..IP31..I know they are excellent boats in general some are expensive


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

artchie said:


> the pics you posted ,Is this Cape Dory boat?


The boat pictured is a Bristol 35.5, a Ted Hood design. It has been a great choice where my wife is concerned. The first week we owned her, other sailors would walk by us on the docks and say, "Oh, so you're the folks who bought this Bristol. It's a great boat! They're very well made, very seaworthy, and they have a very reassuring sea motion in heavy seas. This is a boat that you can feel safe in, in most conditions you might sail in". There have been so many people who have offered such comments, that my wife is pretty impressed with my choice of boat.


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## CodyTheNovice (Nov 1, 2020)

Artchie thanks for asking this question. I'm also new to sailing and was thinking about looking at that same Ericson 38 in Houston. If it's still available in December I plan on looking at it, but I hear it needs some work. Someone had mentioned that the port holes were sealed up. In my opinion that won't be beneficial down in the Caribbean, which is where I also plan on sailing to and living aboard as well. Ventilation is key in areas like that. This is something I know first hand due to working on a vessel full time down near the equator in the North Atlantic. Please keep us updated on what you decide to buy if you would. I'd like to learn what I can from your experience since we seem to have the same goals when it comes to sailing. Thanks!!!


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## artchie (Apr 29, 2018)

Thank You ,Last weekend I travel to St Petersburg to see 1983 Tartan33 .I knowthuis is good boat to learn sailing , but for me way to small regarding accommodation


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