# Abandoned Boat 100+ miles at sea.



## eherlihy

Interesting video from a guy that stumbled across an abandoned sailboat in the Gulf of Mexico;






Now, before you get all excited, this is not MY video, and I believe that his comment on healthcare was meant to be tongue in cheek.


----------



## cyasurfin

Google the name of the boat and find out "the rest of the story" or the beginning or whatever. Interesting! Great video.


----------



## eherlihy

Yes, it points here; Coast Guard rescues 2 from sailing vessel in Gulf of Mexico

That story, however, indicates that the vessel was being towed.


----------



## JonEisberg

_"Hello Coast Guard, Hello Coast Guard, Hello Coast Guard..."_

Damn, and this guy is apparently a licensed HAM operator?

Hell, Redford's "SOS call" in ALL IS LOST is better radio procedure


----------



## CalebD

Why was the skipper of the "Carrie Anne" so reluctant to board the seemingly abandoned vessel "Escape Pod"?


----------



## newhaul

Note to self don't name boat escape pod great vid btw


----------



## eherlihy

CalebD said:


> Why was the skipper of the "Carrie Anne" so reluctant to board the seemingly abandoned vessel "Escape Pod"?



Possible crime scene
Possible that he could fall overboard while trying to leave his vessel (he was single handing)
Possible zombie infestation

All of these would keep me off the boat too.


----------



## tempest

CalebD said:


> Why was the skipper of the "Carrie Anne" so reluctant to board the seemingly abandoned vessel "Escape Pod"?


I wondered the same thing. Curiosity might have gotten the better of me..


----------



## kwaltersmi

So apparently the tow never happened. Wonder if sv Escape Pod has made it back to shore yet.


----------



## ltgoshen

How weired,
I would haved freeked out. I hate me some Zombies. I would have checked out the boat I dont think I would have left it there.


----------



## weinie

I want to know what the deal was with the red paint!


----------



## Group9

Maybe I would think differently if I were there, but looking at the video, and how calm conditions were, and only 100 miles from shore, I think I would have seriously considered towing that thing back in.


----------



## benesailor

Nobody on board? Thank God nobody was laying on the cabin floor incapacitated. I don't know that i could leave a fellow boater a hundred miles out without taking a peek to make sure nobody was hurt.
I do understand that it would depend on the conditions. It looked pretty benign. Could have possibly boarded. 

Great radio etiquette by the way. 

Spare parts? That's some money left sitting there; oh wait, 35' Hunter. Never mind.


----------



## benesailor

Groupnine, i was thinking the same thing.


----------



## JonEisberg

ltgoshen said:


> I would have checked out the boat I dont think I would have left it there.


If you're think of a salvage effort, those might be easier said than done... Even if you're Matt Rutherford, and could really use a $45K windfall 

Remember the Swan 48 WOLFHOUND, abandoned near Bermuda last winter? Well, she's _STILL_ out there...












> July 22, 2013
> 
> Wolfhound (Day 55)
> 
> The day after we finished our research we were sitting on the back of the boat enjoying an early dinner. Nikki suddenly stopped eating and said 'look there is a sail boat over there'. It looked strange to me as the sails were not up and it seemed to be drifting around. Our first thought was that someone might be in need of some assistance so we changed course and turned toward the drifting vessel. As we passed close by I yelled out 'HELLO' half expecting to see some unshaven desperate sailor pop his head out but nothing happened. Nikki warned me that if I went onboard the sailboat I might find a dead body. I had to see if someone was in danger so I jumped into our flimsy kayak and paddled over then climbed aboard the injured sailboat. After a full inspection of the boat I found that it was abandoned.
> 
> The boat was a 48 foot Swan named Wolfhound full of nice gear. I could have easily striped the boat but I wanted to do the right thing. I found the owners phone number and the number for his insurance company and called them both telling them I found Wolfhound the 48 foot Swan and asked them what they would like me to do. As expected the owner wanted his boat and asked if I could tow it to the Chesapeake Bay. I told him I would be lucky if I could tow it 715 miles to Bermuda. I thought the sailboat still had a lot of life left in her and we could use the salvage money. It was worth a try.
> 
> The next day I returned to Wolfhound and pumped all the water out of the bilge. I had to secure the mast because the forestay and backstay were broke. I secured the mast with a few halyards, the mast wouldn't be able to support a sail but at least the mast wasn't going to fall down. She was dragging an anchor which I pulled back on board and tied off. I also took down the ripped up main sail and stowed it away inside the cabin. I had done everything I could to secure the Swan.
> 
> Nikki and I discussed our game plan. We didn't have enough fuel to tow Wolfhound all the way to Bermuda so the next day I was going to kayak back to the Swan and pump out its fuel tank hoping to get at least 30 gallons of diesel. The next day I disconnected one of my ships batteries placed in in the kayak and paddled back to the Swan. I used a waste pump that I found which was brand new still in its box and my big group 31 battery that I brought and started to pump Wolfhounds fuel tank dry. I was disappointed when I only got 12 gallons of diesel. I tried to bring back a jerry can with the Kayak but the Kayak flipped, I was being drug behind the Swan with one hand on the kayak and the other hand on the swim ladder. I dragged myself and the kayak back onboard and decided there was no way to get my battery and three jerry jugs back to my boat using the little kayak. After searching around I found a Zodiac inflatable on Wolfhound so I pumped it up and threw it overboard. At least now I have a good way to shuttle the 12 gallons of diesel and my big battery back to my boat. Then craziest thing happened. On the way back to my boat the bottom fell out of the dingy. One minute I'm just rowing along and the next minute I'm looking down at nothing but water. My 100 pound battery I brought with me had a line attached to it and the line nearly rapped around my leg. If it had it would have taken me to the bottom of the ocean with it. I struggled to get back to my boat and climbed aboard, but I did manage to save the 3 jerry cans that had the 12 gallons of fuel in them. Nikki and I set aside 20 gallons of fuel in reserve and decided if we can't get Wolfhound to Bermuda with the remaining fuel then we cut her loose and use the 20 gallons of reserve fuel to get to Bermuda without her.
> 
> The next day we spotted a freighter and asked the freighter if it could spare 50 gallons of diesel. At first they were hesitant but when the saw that we were towing a sailboat the freighter agreed to help. I had to pull up next to a slow moving freighter, stay 10 feet from its hull and maintain a prefect course in order to get the fuel. It took every bit of skill I had to hold my boat in that position for an hour as the guys on the freighter lowered one jerry jug at a time down to Nikki. It was absolutely nerve racking. You never want to be that close to a freighter in the open ocean, but if we could pull it off we would have enough fuel to easy tow the boat to Bermuda.
> 
> As we pulled away from the freighter we were all smiles. We now had enough fuel to motor to Bermuda. We were going to pull it off. A few hours later I noticed our RPM gauge was jumping around and the engine was starting to struggle. I backed down the throttle and the engine died immediately. I said to Nikki 'we must have got dirty diesel, I'll change the fuel filter'. I changed both fuel filters and bled the air out of the engine and she still wouldn't start. It was getting dark so I thought it best to get some rest and deal with it tomorrow. The next day I took my oil extraction pump and jury rigged it to my primary fuel filter. This way I could pump all the dirty fuel out of the fuel tank through the fuel filter and into jerry jugs. By doing this I would clean all the fuel and then I could pour it back in the tank. I had to sacrifice two more fuel filters but it went remarkably well and now all the fuel was clean. I only had one fuel filter left but we should be okay. I reconnected the primary fuel filter to the engine, we bled out the air and - nothing. The engine still wouldn't start. I spent the next 36 hours bleeding and re-bleeding my engine until I had to finally except that the fuel I got from the freighter was so bad that it ruined my fuel injection pump. There is no way to fix that out at sea, my engine was dead.
> 
> That changed everything. Now the only hope we had to get Wolfhound to Bermuda was to get her engine started. The first thing I had to do was remove the lines that had rapped themselves around Wolfhounds propeller. It took about an hour of hard swimming before I could get all the lines off of Wolfhounds prop. While I was doing that a line rapped around the propeller on my boat. I had to cut lines off of two different boats propellers back to back in the middle of the open ocean. By the end I was covered in scraps and cuts and completely exhausted. After that fiasco I took another one of my ships batteries over to the Swan 48 and got it connected to the ships electric system. I was able get the engine to turn over but I couldn't get it to start. At this point the wind died and my boat stopped but the Swan didn't. I watch helplessly as the Swan rammed my boat putting a dent in the side of my ship. Then it spun around and the tow line rapped around it rudder, so now we were pulling it backwards. It took three hours to finally get the Swan 48 spun back around the right way. As all of this was happening the seas were building. I was still on Wolfhound and Nikki was on Ault. There was no way I would be able to bring my battery back to my boat and from the looks of it I would be lucky to get back at all. I narrowly managed to row the little kayak back to my boat as each wave was trying to flip me.
> 
> Again Nikki and I sat down to discuss a new game plan. The owner of Wolfhound had offered us $45,000 if we could get it to Bermuda. Nikki, myself and the non-profit are completely broke. We were going to put $20,000 in the next year's scientific expedition to the Arctic and split the rest. We would have a financial security blanket. We could afford health insurance, car insurance and pay our cell phone bills until we left for the Arctic next June. Back on land we spend well over 40 hours a week managing the various aspects of the non-profit but we haven't been able to raise enough money to get paid a salary. It could have been a huge help. But between the two boats we had two broken engines and only my boat could sail. We got an accurate weather report from Predict Wind that told us for the next 7 days we had nothing but headwinds and light winds. We tried to tow her under sail into the wind but the combined leeway was pushing us east, further out to sea and away from Bermuda. We knew if we dragged the boat long enough we could get to Bermuda but how long, two weeks, a month? Every day that went by my boat was receiving more damage. That and it is hurricane season, we can't just be out here like a sitting duck. Just as Nikki and I were having this conversation I heard a noise. The towline had rapped itself around my windvane again threatening to rip it off. We are out here to do research not salvage boats. You cannot let greed corrupt good judgment. There comes a point when the risks outweigh the reward. At 4:30pm after 5 long days of towing Wolfhound I cut the line.
> 
> We cut Wolfhound free and started making some headway when the halyard on the mainsail failed and for the last 36 hours we have been trying to beat into 15-20 knot headwinds with only a foresail, going nowhere. In a day or two when the wind dies I will climb my unstayed mast to the top and fix the problem. I can't say I want to do it, but it has to be done. After that difficult climb up the mast we will be able to raise our main sail again but then we will be becalmed for 3-5 days. When the wind finally picks back up we will continue back to land.
> 
> On the bright side of things, every major sailing trip I've ever done I did with a broken engine so it's nothing new to me. There are no big storms anywhere in the Atlantic (for now) and we have plenty of food and water. We won't be going anywhere for the next 5 days because of the light winds but at least we will have a chance to clean the boat up, fix things and regroup.
> 
> By Endurance&#8230;
> 
> Matt Rutherford
> 
> Wolfhound (Day 55) | oceanresearchproject.org


More here:

SWAN 48 SALVAGE ATTEMPT: Matt Rutherford Almost Got Ripped Off! (IMHO) | Sailfeed

And here:

Matt Rutherford Wolfhound Salvage from on podbay: open podcasting


----------



## caberg

What would he be entitled to if he had towed it in? The boat, some sort of recovery/towing fee?

I have to agree that towing 100 miles in those conditions (if they were expected to hold) does not seem that implausible.


----------



## Stumble

caberg said:


> What would he be entitled to if he had towed it in? The boat, some sort of recovery/towing fee?
> 
> I have to agree that towing 100 miles in those conditions (if they were expected to hold) does not seem that implausible.


A rough guess would be the value of the boat. In many cases the insurance company would rather sign the title over to the salvor in this type of cases than deal with it themselves so you could also take the boat.

Courts have gotten away from assigning a percentage, but most lawyers still prefer to work that way. It might go as low as 50%, but I doubt it.


----------



## JonEisberg

Stumble said:


> A rough guess would be the value of the boat. In many cases the insurance company would rather sign the title over to the salvor in this type of cases than deal with it themselves so you could also take the boat.
> 
> Courts have gotten away from assigning a percentage, but most lawyers still prefer to work that way. It might go as low as 50%, but I doubt it.


Here's a pretty good explanation from Charlie Doane...

SALVAGE LAW: Do You Get to Keep an Abandoned Boat?


----------



## kwaltersmi

caberg said:


> What would he be entitled to if he had towed it in?


Apparently, he may have been entitled to a reward, but not the vessel itself. I'm no lawyer, but according to the IMO International Convention on Salvage (1989),  the rights of salvors are as follows:

1. Salvage operations which have had a useful result give right to a reward.
2. Except as otherwise provided, no payment is due under this Convention if the salvage operations have had no useful result.
3. This chapter shall apply, notwithstanding that the salved vessel and the vessel undertaking the salvage operations belong to the same owner.

Article 13 - Criteria for fixing the reward

1. The reward shall be fixed with a view to encouraging salvage operations, taking into account the following criteria without regard to the order in which they are presented below:

(a) the salved value of the vessel and other property;

(b) the skill and efforts of the salvors in preventing or minimizing damage to the environment;

(c) the measure of success obtained by the salvor;

(d) the nature and degree of the danger;

(e) the skill and efforts of the salvors in salving the vessel, other property and life;

(f) the time used and expenses and losses incurred by the salvors;

(g) the risk of liability and other risks run by the salvors or their equipment;

(h) the promptness of the services rendered;

(i) the availability and use of vessels or other equipment intended for salvage operations;

(j) the state of readiness and efficiency of the salvor's equipment and the value thereof.

2. Payment of a reward fixed according to paragraph 1 shall be made by all of the vessel and other property interests in proportion to their respective salved values. However, a State Party may in its national law provide that the payment of a reward has to be made by one of these interests, subject to a right of recourse of this interest against the other interests for their respective shares. Nothing in this article shall prevent any right of defence.

3. The rewards, exclusive of any interest and recoverable legal costs that may be payable thereon, shall not exceed the salved value of the vessel and other property.


----------



## eherlihy

The subject boat in this thread is worth between $20k and $30k, per Yachtworld.

*Sent from my VS930 4G using Forum Fiend v1.1.3.*


----------



## eherlihy

JonEisberg said:


> If you're think of a salvage effort, those might be easier said than done... Even if you're Matt Rutherford, and could really use a $45K windfall
> 
> Remember the Swan 48 WOLFHOUND, abandoned near Bermuda last winter? Well, she's _STILL_ out there...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More here:
> 
> SWAN 48 SALVAGE ATTEMPT: Matt Rutherford Almost Got Ripped Off! (IMHO) | Sailfeed
> 
> And here:
> 
> Matt Rutherford Wolfhound Salvage from on podbay: open podcasting


You do realize that this Swan 48 (formerly Bella Luna) is the exact same boat that Drake Roberts, of s/v Paragon sailed to Tortola....


----------



## Stumble

Kwalter,

In US law there is a caveat to the idea that the salvage can't be worth more than the value of the boat. That is based on the value of the environmental damage prevented. So if a vessel has large amount of diesel fuel onboard part of the claim can be for the value of not releasing that diesel into the waterway. 

Fixing value gets very complicated very quickly when you are talking about large vessels, or commercial things. For small recreational boats (sub 50') often the insurance company will just sign over title to the salvor and walk away. The insurance company's don't want to own it, they have already paid the previous owner/bank so the insurance companies title is the only one of interest. 

As value go up so does complexity, since it's worth paying the attorneys of inure it out. But on a vessel worth 30k like this one, it's in no ones interest to do the math. It costs almost as much to go to court on a 50k claim as a 1M.


----------



## JonEisberg

What I find most disconcerting about this sort of event, is the obvious inability of the Coast Guard to promptly make the connection between a vessel being reported abandoned, and one _of the same name that they had rescued the crew from shortly beforehand_, and a video of which was posted on their own website...

Reminiscent of the case of the Pearson 365 RUNNING FREE, abandoned between Jacksonville and Bermuda early last summer... Weeks later, a cruise ship diverted and stopped to conduct a boarding, one can only presume after checking with the CG first... Then, when the thing eventually beaches itself on Martha's Vineyard a month or 2 later, it still requires a random connection _on freakin' FACEBOOK_ before the owner is identified, and notified... UFB...

Damn, with all these abandoned boats floating around out there these days, you'd think they would at least maintain an easily accessible database of abandoned boats to refer to 

Until you've dealt with them firsthand, the disfunctionality of the CG/DHS in this regard absolutely boggles the mind, and is impossible to overstate...


----------



## JonEisberg

eherlihy said:


> You do realize that this Swan 48 (formerly Bella Luna) is the exact same boat that Drake Roberts, of s/v Paragon sailed to Tortola....


Yup... And, the same one that _ALMOST_ made it to Bermuda in the 2011 NARC, but was forced to divert to Charleston, instead...

Gotta love the apparent thinking of the last owner... _"OK, nevermind that her professional crew got the crap kicked out of them last November, let's try the same trip this JANUARY_..." 

One of Drake's better videos:


----------



## svHyLyte

CalebD said:


> Why was the skipper of the "Carrie Anne" so reluctant to board the seemingly abandoned vessel "Escape Pod"?


In addition to the other reasons previously mentioned, closing with another yacht, even in what appears to be a calm sea can be quit hazardous and particularly for a single hander. The boats will roll differently and one's rig can easily be damaged if the boats rigs become entangled, even for a moment. The derelict may also have lines drifting in the sea that one is not aware of/cannot see, initially, and if they are inadvertently caught up in one's prop or rudder, one could easily find oneself in difficulty. I think the fellow did the appropriate thing given he was alone, standing off and calling the authorities. He might have reached the tug if its MMSI number was included in its AIS information and he used a DSC hailing protocol. He might also have reached the Coast Guard if he had called on an SSB Channel other than 2.182 which hasn't been monitored by the Coast Guard for some time. Given his location, he could also have contacted WLO New Orleans pretty easily and had a very good patch through. When traveling in the Gulf we speak with WLO reasonably frequently and the operators there are very reliable and have proven very helpful.

FWIW...


----------



## oceangirl

I was at the helm when one of our crew jumped over to another vessel to assist in engine repairs. It was out In the Gulf of Mexico, 150 miles north of Yucatan peninsula, becalm conditions. It was hazardous, until you have been there and done that, you don't quite realize just how many things can go wrong in an instant, just how much movement there is between two vessels at sea. We were in a 27 Island Packet, the other vessel, a nor'sea 28.

I know the captain of the boat that discovered escape pod, very competent and cool headed, puts more sea miles under his keel and others in a month, than most do in a year.


----------



## cd30ketch

The video of the abandoned boat in the Gulf was mine. Keep in mind that this video is about an hour long so a lot was edited. Let me answer some of your questions.

First, perhaps I did not use radio protocol to the exact degree when I said hello coast guard then again what is wrong with “hello Coast guard”. I also did not give my vessel name at first. This was on purpose. Way too often two way radio traffic can get confusing, HF propagation fades in and out etc. Hell Jon you rag on my radio protocol but then again acknowledge that the USCG could not even figure out they themselves rescued the crew off of the Escape Pod three days earlier. How could I know if all they would have heard was “Kerry Ann” and abandoned? I did not want people getting mixed up and reporting to my wife that my boat was found abandoned in the gulf. That is why you heard me later say after giving my boats name “everything is ok on my boat”. 

Why did I not go aboard the Escape Pod? My goal when single handing is to keep my ass on my boat. I never told anyone that the boat did not have anyone on board even though they inferred it. I made it clear that I did not and would not go on the boat. I would rather have the coast guard spend the money to look for themselves then to risk a simple whoops. 

“Leave a fellow sailor in trouble” Hog wash. Why do you think I called the coast guard to report the boat. 

Why did I not salvage the boat? I did not want to take advantage of some other sailor’s bad fortune. I need Neptune on my side when at sea. How fast could I have towed the boat? 2 knots? Just how close is land again? The nearest place to go inland was the Southwest Pass which is the mouth of the Mississippi. Then what? Fight commercial ship traffic as I go up the Mississippi? No way. Also this was not the direction that I was headed. I was head to Corpus Christi TX three or four hundred miles away.

Again let me say a lot was edited that you did not hear. I would like to recognize how well the guy relaying my information did. Great Job! If you have not used 14.300 when at sea you should give them a try. The monitor sailors and I have them track me whenever making a passage.
Thanks
Kevin


----------



## SVAuspicious

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for coming in and sharing your perspective. We all have to make our own choices when we are out at the pointy end of the stick. I might have made different choices, and Jon might have made other choices, but we don't know for sure because we weren't there. I think you did well.

I agree with you that 14300 is the offshore sailors best friend.

73 es sail fast de dave KO4MI


----------



## jfurlong

they apparently purchased the boat last April for $25K...

Hunter 36 Sloop, 1980, Kemah, Texas, Sailing Texas


----------



## titustiger27

I have a couple questions...(that come from the perspective of a non-offshore sailor)

1) a vhf has a pretty limited range doesn't it? to be even 20 miles out might be too far to expect it to work right?

2) what is the coast guard's responsibility in this? if the rescue they crew, are they done, or should the be responsible for bringing the boat in in this case?

I guess since it is on open water, anyone is in charge.

3) a dragging pdf seems kind of ominous to me, is that a bad sign, like maybe someone could have been attached and dragging until sea creatures took over.


One more example of maybe it is better to stay with the boat and not abandon....


----------



## Group9

I have a friend who has an insurance agency on the Mississippi gulf coast. Back in the 80's, a sea plane he had insured crashed, flipping over, when landing at some barrier islands off the Louisiana coast. He went out in his small shrimp boat, just to look at it, used and anchor and his boat to flip the plane back up onto it's pontoons, and hoisted the motor aboard with his boom.

He towed it all the way back to Pascaoula, MS, a trip of about 45 miles across the Gulf of Mexico. After he was done, he wanted to see what he should charge for doing it and called a salvage company to see what a good price would be for towing an airplane back from that location. He asked them what they would charge to do something like that, without telling them he had already done it.

The salvage company told him he wouldn't give him a price on towing a seaplane across the Gulf to that location, because he didn't think it was possible to do.


----------



## Stumble

titustiger27 said:


> I have a couple questions...(that come from the perspective of a non-offshore sailor)
> 
> 1) a vhf has a pretty limited range doesn't it? to be even 20 miles out might be too far to expect it to work right?
> 
> 2) what is the coast guard's responsibility in this? if the rescue they crew, are they done, or should the be responsible for bringing the boat in in this case?
> 
> I guess since it is on open water, anyone is in charge.
> 
> 3) a dragging pdf seems kind of ominous to me, is that a bad sign, like maybe someone could have been attached and dragging until sea creatures took over.
> 
> One more example of maybe it is better to stay with the boat and not abandon....


1) a masthead VHF might reach 20 miles. Off the Louisiana coast there are a lot of oil rigs that have VHF's and you may get a relay from them. I often get cell signals out there from the rigs cell relays. But when offshore some other means of communication is necessary

2) the USCG is only responsible for life saving. Once the people onboard are safe they are done. But will often relay the position to a salvage/tow company if they can.

3) in rough weather a lot of people toss something overboard that floats, with the idea that if someone falls overboard they could ab on to it. I have doubts about the effectiveness of this, since I doubt anyone could hold on while being drug thru the water at any speed.

It could also have been a makeshift harness abandoned while being rescued. There are a lot of reasons it could be there.


----------



## titustiger27

Thanks Stumble.

Once the crew is rescued... should they contact the salvage/tow company... or their insurance company and let them take over..?


----------



## Lothario

And what if there was a couple and they happen to be 'napping'..#awkward!


----------



## titustiger27

when your sails are torn off the mast, yes time for some 'napping'


----------



## Minnewaska

cd30ketch said:


> The video of the abandoned boat in the Gulf was mine. ......


Kevin,

Why are both lifegates open while you are 100nm offshore singlehanded with no intention of leaving the boat.

I think you did the right thing by calling this in. Just an oddity in your vid.


----------



## RainDog

titustiger27 said:


> 1) a vhf has a pretty limited range doesn't it? to be even 20 miles out might be too far to expect it to work right?


Coast guard range is "at least 20 nautical miles offshore, often much further" (http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=mtNds). 100 miles is not unheard of, depending on atmospheric conditions. Coast guard has some pretty tall antennas.


----------



## manatee

Maybe someone knows Coast Guard folk who can answer this:

It is, or was, standard practice to mark a craft when refugees had been removed from it & the craft set adrift. Is this not done in the case of a 'rescue' of non-refugees? Is it up to the rescuers' discretion?


----------



## eherlihy

What really disappoints me is that none of the CG personnel with whom he dealt showed the initiative, or had the brains, to check the USCG Documentation Database. The vessel Escape Pod, USCG Documentation number 633681, is/was a 1980 Hunter from Houston TX...

Um, ya think that the CG could have contacted the owner within the first 15 min and asked them why their boat was bobbing around in the gulf, seemingly abandoned, and if anyone was in danger?


----------



## Stumble

titustiger27 said:


> Thanks Stumble.
> 
> Once the crew is rescued... should they contact the salvage/tow company... or their insurance company and let them take over..?


It depends on the situation really. So long as I thought there was a chance to save the boat I would call a tow company first. Once I was removed from the boat, or the boat became a loss, I would call the insurance company.

Your insurance policy may spell out procedures here however. Since some insurance companies have relationships with salvage companies and would rather deal with them than someone else.


----------



## titustiger27

There was a point made earlier --- about how hard it is to board another boat in calm weather... Makes me wonder how hard it would be to rescue a crew *during* a storm.

It almost seems like it would be safer to wait until the storm has passed for the rescue..


----------



## oceangirl

It is extremely hazardous to rescue a vessel during any type of storm. USCG risk their lives to accomplish these rescues. I'm sure they would gladly wait for more ideal conditions if the crew were not in danger, injured, boat in danger. 

What I don't understand is why the vessels are not scuttled. I wonder if they get an agreement with the owner to have it salvaged..? A friend had his boat sunk by CG, this was 15 years ago. His boat was going down but rather slowly, owner was injured, their reasoning to the owner was navigation hazard, he didn't have a say so in the matter. At least, that is the story he tells me.


----------



## titustiger27

by not scuttling it someone got a boat, someone made $25.5K
and probably the insurance company paid out

Hunter 36 Sloop, 1980, Kemah, Texas, Sailing Texas

Edit: I guess one of those folks that appreciate what emergency/military does, but also say -- that is their job....


----------



## svHyLyte

titustiger27 said:


> by not scuttling it someone got a boat, someone made $25.5K
> and probably the insurance company paid out
> 
> Hunter 36 Sloop, 1980, Kemah, Texas, Sailing Texas
> 
> Edit: I guess one of those folks that appreciate what emergency/military does, but also say -- that is their job....


Ah...Well... Actually not.

If you follow the history, the yacht was "sold" on April 25th, '13 and subsequently "abandoned" on May 3rd, presumably by the buyers. See Coast Guard Rescue. So, the opportunity is presumably still out there, floating around, waiting for a courageous opportunist.


----------



## Minnewaska

Offshore in a storm just days after buying a 'new to you' boat? They had it coming. Geesh.


----------



## titustiger27

svHyLyte said:


> Ah...Well... Actually not.
> 
> If you follow the history, the yacht was "sold" on April 25th, '13 and subsequently "abandoned" on May 3rd, presumably by the buyers. See Coast Guard Rescue. So, the opportunity is presumably still out there, floating around, waiting for a contagious opportunist.


good catch (on your part) --- or bad mistake (on my part).

I don't know when you feel more attached to a boat, right after you bought it... or after you have grown to really love it...

Or after you sold it ;-)


----------



## jzk

In that weather, I would have a hard time not towing it in.


----------



## oceangirl

Lots of folks buy boats out of town and deliver them home. The boat seems fine, it was crew that got injured or whatever, do we know what happened to them, why they had to abandon?


----------



## Ajax_MD

I have to say, after seeing so many photos and videos of abandoned boats, still afloat months after the crew was rescued, really motivates me to stay aboard and "not give up the ship".


----------



## casey1999

svHyLyte said:


> In addition to the other reasons previously mentioned, closing with another yacht, even in what appears to be a calm sea can be quit hazardous and particularly for a single hander. The boats will roll differently and one's rig can easily be damaged if the boats rigs become entangled, even for a moment. The derelict may also have lines drifting in the sea that one is not aware of/cannot see, initially, and if they are inadvertently caught up in one's prop or rudder, one could easily find oneself in difficulty. I think the fellow did the appropriate thing given he was alone, standing off and calling the authorities. He might have reached the tug if its MMSI number was included in its AIS information and he used a DSC hailing protocol. He might also have reached the Coast Guard if he had called on an SSB Channel other than 2.182 which hasn't been monitored by the Coast Guard for some time. Given his location, he could also have contacted WLO New Orleans pretty easily and had a very good patch through. When traveling in the Gulf we speak with WLO reasonably frequently and the operators there are very reliable and have proven very helpful.
> 
> FWIW...


What Freq does the CG monitor on Marine SSB? I have recent publications from State of Hawaii Marine Division that says to hail CG ono 2182 khz ( as well as Ch 16). It does seem like every is abandoning Marine SSB, but are there any Freqs the CG still monitors?

35 years ago a boat I was crewing on found a 40 foot old fishing boat about 200 miles north of Puerto Rico abondoned. We were real hesitant to board it but our skipper did. We were concerned it was involved in drug smuggling activity, and who knows, maybe some would be pirates were on board waiting to take our boat. Our skipper found a half cup of coffee sitting on the counter inside the boat, everything elese intact. Left her floating and adrift. Back then we only had VHF and could not reach anyone.


----------



## JonEisberg

BubbleheadMd said:


> I have to say, after seeing so many photos and videos of abandoned boats, still afloat months after the crew was rescued, really motivates me to stay aboard and "not give up the ship".


Yeah, easy for you to say....

But what about in the event of _" distress due to damaged sail and rigging'_? 

Coast Guard rescues 2 from sailing vessel in Gulf of Mexico










There was a strange one last week off Cape May... A solo sailor on a 37-footer headed south was lost after reporting engine trouble. What initiated the search, was the discovery of _the jet ski he had been towing_, found some distance from the mother ship... Hard to imagine that he might have been attempting to make it to shore using his 'dinghy', but stranger things have happened, and one can only wonder... Most likely, he went overboard in an effort to recover the jet ski after the towline had parted, but who knows?

VINCENT TANGORRA: Sailor Towing Jet-Ski Missing Off New Jersey

Best advice ever:


----------



## Group9

BubbleheadMd said:


> I have to say, after seeing so many photos and videos of abandoned boats, still afloat months after the crew was rescued, really motivates me to stay aboard and "not give up the ship".


I remember the 79 Fastnet race, where crews were lost after abandoning ships that were still floating when the storm was over.


----------



## capt vimes

Group9 said:


> I remember the 79 Fastnet race, where crews were lost after abandoning ships that were still floating when the storm was over.


The same thing happened during the disastrous sydney-hobbart race in 98... Crew lost, boat found weeks later somewhere along the coast...

What i learned is that you leave your boat in stepping UP into the liferaft...
You do not leave it until the cockpit is flooded up to your knees...


----------



## svHyLyte

casey1999 said:


> What Freq does the CG monitor on Marine SSB? I have recent publications from State of Hawaii Marine Division that says to hail CG ono 2182 khz ( as well as Ch 16). It does seem like every is abandoning Marine SSB, but are there any Freqs the CG still monitors?


See (click on) US Coast Guard SSB Emergency Hailing Frequencies


----------



## casey1999

svHyLyte said:


> See (click on) US Coast Guard SSB Emergency Hailing Frequencies


Thanks, I'll print and post by the Marine SSB.


----------



## Classic30

Nobody is abandoning Marine SSB - in addition to triggering an EPIRB, with a range of hundreds of miles on a good day it is still the best way to call for help out there. I was surprised to learn recently how long "2182 kilocycles" has been in use as the primary marine distress frequency.. and it's longer than you think. 

On this topic, I too am amazed at how many sailors call for help due to "engine trouble" and are perfectly willing to abandon ship in the middle of the ocean rather than wait the storm out and make slow progress towards some distant shore once the storm is over. Perhaps it's just modern-day impatience.. I can understand people abandoning a perfectly sound yacht due to "medical" issues (ie. "life threatening injuries"), but...

Maybe not enough people are doing Sea Safety and Survival courses before they leave port.


----------



## casey1999

Classic30 said:


> Nobody is abandoning Marine SSB - in addition to triggering an EPIRB, with a range of hundreds of miles on a good day it is still the best way to call for help out there. I was surprised to learn recently how long "2182 kilocycles" has been in use as the primary marine distress frequency.. and it's longer than you think.


I have herd quite a few stories (including this thread) of mariners trying to reach the US CG on Marine SSB and to no avail. I have also read where most commercial ships now use sat phone for all communication (and VHF 16 when they need port ops). So I think SSB is getting abandoned. Now Ham radio Freq 14,300 khz, that seems to be well utilized. I have an Icom 710 and can get both Marine SSB and Ham freq on it. Also have Marine SSB operator and ships license as well as General Class Ham license. I think Ham freqs are my best bet, but I will also try to raise the CG if needed on their freqs, but I have little faith I will reach them.

BTW, do carry e-pirb as well as AIS/GPS VHF.


----------



## Classic30

casey1999 said:


> I have herd quite a few stories (including this thread) of mariners trying to reach the US CG on Marine SSB and to no avail. I have also read where most commercial ships now use sat phone for all communication (and VHF 16 when they need port ops). So I think SSB is getting abandoned.
> ......


That's not actually correct - certainly not for long-distance cruising outside of America.

By it's very nature, VHF 16 has very limited range (10's of miles on a good day) since it is line-of-sight only, however it is the system of choice for coastal cruising (and fishing) simply because it's cheap and easy to set up so it is therefore probably the one your *coastal* CG listens to the most.

Satphone is a point-to-point communication system ie. you can call someone only if you know their number - perfectly useless in an emergency, quite frankly, when you want the entire world to know you're going down and not just someone at the end of a telephone. 2182kHz is a world-wide distress frequency and AFAIK can also be picked up by commercial aircraft so it is definitely the first thing I'd head for after triggering the EPIRB out of sight of land, since it's the system the SAR people (and any and all commercial ships) will be expecting you to call on.


----------



## casey1999

Classic30 said:


> That's not actually correct - certainly not for long-distance cruising outside of America.
> 
> By it's very nature, VHF 16 has very limited range (10's of miles on a good day) since it is line-of-sight only, however it is the system of choice for coastal cruising (and fishing) simply because it's cheap and easy to set up so it is therefore probably the one your *coastal* CG listens to the most.
> 
> Satphone is a point-to-point communication system ie. you can call someone only if you know their number - perfectly useless in an emergency, quite frankly, when you want the entire world to know you're going down and not just someone at the end of a telephone. 2182kHz is a world-wide distress frequency and AFAIK can also be picked up by commercial aircraft so it is definitely the first thing I'd head for after triggering the EPIRB out of sight of land, since it's the system the SAR people (and any and all commercial ships) will be expecting you to call on.


Regarding ch 16, that is why I said most commercial ships use that for port ops (port operatioins hailing when they are in costal areas or harbors).

Sat phone has been used by many mariners who get into trouble- they call the CG directly by phone when they cannot reach them by SSB or VHF. The CG can also call you. Many commercial ships apparently are part of this system:





As far as using 2182 khz, when we are at the peak of sun spot cycle (like we are now) a mariner would be lucky to get 50 miles range during day light hours, probably better off using vhf ch 16. At night the mariner may get a few hundred miles, but who will you reach in the middle of the ocean? My experience is commercial ships do not respond when you try to reach them using ch 16 vhf. Apparenly the CG has abandoned listening to 2182 khz, and probably for good reason- both day and night the range is very limited.


----------



## Minnewaska

IIRC, no one requires a radio operators license for VHF any longer, however, you still do for SSB.


----------



## casey1999

FWIW,
My understanding when the replica "Bounty" was sinking in the Atlantic, the radio operator could not reach any help via Marine SSB or VHF. The operator was a licensed ham operator and used the ham bands win link to contact for help. This contact via ham radio probably saved some lives.

Here is complete story:
http://www.eham.net/articles/29258

"Faunt told the ARRL that the Bounty crew tried various methods, including a satellite phone, to call for help, "but we got nothing when tried calling out on HF. We tried calling the Maritime Mobile Net, but nothing was out there. We had Winlink on the ship that we used for e-mail and accessing the Internet to post to blogs and to Facebook, and we finally found an e-mail address for the Coast Guard. As a last-ditch effort, we used Winlink to e-mail the Coast Guard for help. Within an hour, we heard a C-130 plane, and later, a helicopter overhead." According to Faunt, it was Walbridge, as master of the ship, who sent out the distress messages."


----------



## Southron Spirit

i enjoyed your video


----------



## Classic30

Minnewaska said:


> IIRC, no one requires a radio operators license for VHF any longer, however, you still do for SSB.


Since you most certainly do need radio operators license for VHF (the "restricted" one at least) over here, obviously we're a bit behind the times..

.. or perhaps it's just another case of you lot doing things differently to the rest of the world.


----------



## Classic30

casey1999 said:


> Regarding ch 16, that is why I said most commercial ships use that for port ops (port operatioins hailing when they are in costal areas or harbors).


Actually, no. FWIW, over here they use VHF 12 because VHF 16 needs to be kept free for emergency use - and I imagine it isn't all that different in busy ports over there.



casey1999 said:


> Sat phone has been used by many mariners who get into trouble- they call the CG directly by phone when they cannot reach them by SSB or VHF. The CG can also call you.


I never said "don't use sat phone" or that the sat phone doesn't have it's place in an emergency - certainly everyone travelling a long way offshore should probably hire/buy a sat phone anyway if only to keep in touch with friends/family. I said it wouldn't be the first thing I'd reach for, that's all...

..and, yes, all commercial ships operating under SOLAS regulations *must* comply with all of the requirements of GMDSS.. including maintaining a listening watch on 2182kHz - with all of its supposed limitations.


----------



## rgscpat

US Coast Guard overview of communications:

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=mtBoater


----------



## Classic30

Classic30 said:


> ..and, yes, all commercial ships operating under SOLAS regulations *must* comply with all of the requirements of GMDSS.. including maintaining a listening watch on 2182kHz - with all of its supposed limitations.


Upon re-checking this, it seems the GMDSS Ocean Area A2+ requirements are for a listening watch on 2187.5kHz (the DSC channel). My bad. My excuse is that I don't have a DSC radio on board (yet) and hence never had any reason to check up..

2182 kHz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My comments on SSB still stand though. 

EDIT: It does seem from the link posted above that the USCG don't monitor 2182kHz any more. Tough luck for you guys, eh? I guess that means if you used the HF you'd be more likely to be picked up by a passing freighter than your USCG.


----------



## rgscpat

from the USCG linky posted above, 

"Radiotelephone alarm signal

This signal consists of two audio tones transmitted alternatively on the distress frequency 2182 kHz. It is not used over VHF marine radio in the United States, although it may be used on VHF in Canada. This signal is similar in sound to a two-tone siren used by some ambulances. When generated by automated means, it shall be sent continuously as practicable over a period of not less than 30 seconds nor more than 1 minute. The purpose of the signal is to attract attention or to activate automatic devices giving the alarm. Cargo ships ceased guarding this frequency on February 1, 1999."


----------



## Classic30

rgscpat said:


> from the USCG linky posted above,
> 
> "Radiotelephone alarm signal
> 
> This signal consists of two audio tones transmitted alternatively on the distress frequency 2182 kHz. It is not used over VHF marine radio in the United States, although it may be used on VHF in Canada. This signal is similar in sound to a two-tone siren used by some ambulances. When generated by automated means, it shall be sent continuously as practicable over a period of not less than 30 seconds nor more than 1 minute. The purpose of the signal is to attract attention or to activate automatic devices giving the alarm. Cargo ships ceased guarding this frequency on February 1, 1999."


Yep. I remember my parents old Codan HF set had an "alarm signal" button on it to do just that, but last I saw one of those units was in a museum. 

It's seems that it's DSC these days - on 2187.5kHz - which is not used in the United States either, although it is everywhere else in the world and by US-registered ships also.. Go figure.


----------



## Minnewaska

Classic30 said:


> Since you most certainly do need radio operators license for VHF (the "restricted" one at least) over here, obviously we're a bit behind the times..
> 
> .. or perhaps it's just another case of you lot doing things differently to the rest of the world.


I'm pretty sure the theory was to remove a barrier for a boater having a basic safety device.

A restricted radio operators license, which I've had for a thousand years, is for life here and is a simple matter of writing a check. No idea what good it actually does anyway. It's just a required piece of paper to have in certain circumstances.


----------



## Ajax_MD

JonEisberg said:


> Yeah, easy for you to say....
> 
> But what about in the event of _" distress due to damaged sail and rigging'_?


Jon,
I assure you that I'm under no illusion about it being easy at all.
I imagine being terrified, feeling like I'm locked in a Maytag washing machine, endless vomiting from motion sickness, deydration and exhaustion.

This isn't a statement of bravado about never letting my boat go, it's a statement that the boat is the safest place to be, and that I'm probably safer just waiting it out, rather than trying to clamber aboard some frieghter is a bad seaway, or ditching into a fragile liferaft when my own boat is still hanging together.


----------



## JonEisberg

BubbleheadMd said:


> Originally Posted by JonEisberg
> Yeah, easy for you to say....
> 
> But what about in the event of " distress due to damaged sail and rigging'?
> 
> 
> 
> Jon,
> I assure you that I'm under no illusion about it being easy at all.
> I imagine being terrified, feeling like I'm locked in a Maytag washing machine, endless vomiting from motion sickness, deydration and exhaustion.
> 
> This isn't a statement of bravado about never letting my boat go, it's a statement that the boat is the safest place to be, and that I'm probably safer just waiting it out, rather than trying to clamber aboard some frieghter is a bad seaway, or ditching into a fragile liferaft when my own boat is still hanging together.
Click to expand...

Nah, I was just kidding - I agree with you 100%...

Of course, one never knows for certain what might be the final straw in many of these cases, but the seeming ease with which some boats are abandoned these days often strikes me as being pretty remarkable...

From the pic in this particular instance, it appears that the "sail and rig damage" _MAY_ have amounted to little more than the jib having come unfurled...


----------



## Southron Spirit

a friend of mines son was ordered to abandon a oil field boat in a storm .
he drowned after the storm the boat was found still afloat. 
im not leaving the boat till it sinks out from under me .


----------



## Classic30

Southron Spirit said:


> a friend of mines son was ordered to abandon a oil field boat in a storm .
> he drowned after the storm the boat was found still afloat.
> im not leaving the boat till it sinks out from under me .


That's the spirit! 

It's easy to forget, whilst you're in the middle of the washing machine, that no storm lasts forever - even if it seems like it does at the time...

Personally, I think *panic* is behind the majority of the perfectly sound abandoned yachts out there - the crew simply didn't sign up for nasty weather, and as soon as it happened they wanted out.


----------



## Classic30

Minnewaska said:


> I'm pretty sure the theory was to remove a barrier for a boater having a basic safety device.


That might be the theory, but I know every manual I've ever read (including the link Pat posted earlier) clearly states that no-one would ever be prosecuted for using a radio to call for help in a real emergency - hence, unlike guns, you don't (over here anyway) need to show your license to buy one.



Minnewaska said:


> A restricted radio operators license, which I've had for a thousand years, is for life here and is a simple matter of writing a check. No idea what good it actually does anyway. It's just a required piece of paper to have in certain circumstances.


It's much the same here and I have no idea what good it does either, other than demonstrate that the person with the license has been through at least a basic course on how to use a marine radio, particularly in an emergency. It also helps race officials sleep at night.

On that note: It's a requirement in all of the race SI's in my part of the world that a marine radio be carried, tuned to VHF 16 or whatever the race channel happens to be or risk disqualification. In practice, either (a) various yachts don't have a radio at all, or they have one but it doesn't work and/or (b) the race committee don't respond... 

At least yahoos generally can't afford a HF set (and probably wouldn't know how to use one either) and that does help to keep the noise down.


----------



## Minnewaska

Classic30 said:


> That might be the theory, but I know every manual I've ever read (including the link Pat posted earlier) clearly states that no-one would ever be prosecuted for using a radio to call for help in a real emergency - hence, unlike guns, you don't (over here anyway) need to show your license to buy one.


I don't think safety is strictly a matter of calling in an emergency. It's also to be able to hear a securite call from a tug or to be hailed by a tanker that is about to run you down.



> It's much the same here and I have no idea what good it does either, other than demonstrate that the person with the license has been through at least a basic course on how to use a marine radio, particularly in an emergency. ..........


This will roast your onions. There is absolutely no test or any other demonstration required to receive a restricted radio operators license in the US. Just fill out your name, address and, of course, send the money. Our VHF frequencies are loaded with yahoos that do not know proper protocol. However, requiring the license wouldn't actually change that.

In the US, a valid pilots certificate is considered sufficient to authorize its recipient to broadcast on aviation frequencies. Naturally, one is trained in the use of the radio and demonstrates proficiency, so this makes sense. However, to travel internationally, one often requires the RRO license in foreign countries. Why that makes any difference, since I simply wrote a check to my home country to get the lifetime piece of paper, is bureaucracy at its best.


----------



## titustiger27

Minnewaska said:


> I don't think safety is strictly a matter of calling in an emergency. It's also to be able to hear a securite call from a tug or to be hailed by a tanker that is about to run you down.
> 
> This will roast your onions. There is absolutely no test or any other demonstration required to receive a restricted radio operators license in the US. Just fill out your name, address and, of course, send the money. Our VHF frequencies are loaded with yahoos that do not know proper protocol. However, requiring the license wouldn't actually change that.
> 
> In the US, a valid pilots certificate is considered sufficient to authorize its recipient to broadcast on aviation frequencies. Naturally, one is trained in the use of the radio and demonstrates proficiency, so this makes sense. However, to travel internationally, one often requires the RRO license in foreign countries. Why that makes any difference, since I simply wrote a check to my home country to get the lifetime piece of paper, is bureaucracy at its best.


Add to this, often when our government passes a law to stop something --- like the so called yahoo's using VHF, they often do not expend the resources needed to enforce the law. They can say they did something, but in reality, they did not.


----------



## Classic30

I still find it extraordinary that your CG don't maintain a listening watch on SSB (possibly why the Bounty got no answer?) but choose instead to put up with the yahoos on Ch 16.. Wow. Just Wow. 

After reading that US-variety yahoos use Mayday calls for radio checks, I'll certainly not complain about the average radio idiot over here again.

*EDIT:* Seems I might be getting a little confused. According to this, it seems your CG *do* monitor HF - but on 4207.5 kHz (DSC) - not the MF channel 2187.5 kHz (DSC), however, under GMDSS, ships are still required to maintain a listening watch on 2187.5 kHz and then relay the distress call to a shore station "by any practicable means".

I wouldn't mind knowing what the thinking is behind that, but maybe that's just drifting too far for this thread.


----------



## finding41

It was for sale last year: Hunter 36 Sloop, 1980, Kemah, Texas, Sailing Texas
They were the new owners.


----------



## Minnewaska

Classic30 said:


> I still find it extraordinary that your CG don't maintain a listening watch on SSB (possibly why the Bounty got no answer?) but choose instead to put up with the yahoos on Ch 16.. Wow. Just Wow.


As you edited later in your note, the USCG does maintain monitoring. For coastal purposes, I've never spent a single day (seriously) on the water in the warmer months without hearing them hailed or hearing a broadcast from them for anything from floating debris to a person overboard. Overall, I think they are pretty good at what they do.

I do, however, understand that sector station monitoring can be, in some cases, staffed with outside contractors. Not sure they are the same caliber as the tighty whities that come out of the Academy.

There are also virtually no boaters in the US without a cell phone these days, which have a bit more range over the water than they do over land. I think they are pretty effective up to 5 miles offshore, where 99% of boaters are found. If that's not how one directly contacts the CG, its often their first request upon contacting them over the radio now.



> After reading that US-variety yahoos use Mayday calls for radio checks, I'll certainly not complain about the average radio idiot over here again.


Not sure that has come across quite right. I've never heard a mayday call for a radio check. What we hear all the time is a radio check on Ch16, which is only to be used to hail another station or to broadcast an emergency. Radio checks are to be done on Ch9 or many locales now have automated radio check frequencies.

"A de-ah radio check, radio check, anybody ear dis"

Some of us wish there were patrolling torpedoes that monitor for these, arm and fire directly at any broadcast of the kind. Drones would work too.


----------



## Classic30

Minnewaska said:


> Not sure that has come across quite right. I've never heard a mayday call for a radio check. What we hear all the time is a radio check on Ch16, which is only to be used to hail another station or to broadcast an emergency. Radio checks are to be done on Ch9 or many locales now have automated radio check frequencies.
> 
> "A de-ah radio check, radio check, anybody ear dis"


I got it from this rather scary statement:

_"A growing number of boaters unsuccessful in getting a radio check on VHF channel 16 are calling MAYDAY to get a response. Every hoax, including MAYDAY radio checks, is subject to prosecution as a Class D felony under Title 14, Section 85 of the U.S. Code, liable for a $5000 fine plus all costs the Coast Guard incurs as a result of the individual's action. Since hoaxes can lead to loss of life, the Coast Guard and Federal Communications Commission will work closely together, using when necessary..."_



Minnewaska said:


> Some of us wish there were patrolling torpedoes that monitor for these, arm and fire directly at any broadcast of the kind. Drones would work too.


Maybe the FCC could use their _"..FCC equipment capable of identifying the electronic signature of the offending radio"_ to home said torpedoes in on. ..'cept then there'd be people in the water they'd have to go fetch.


----------



## abrahamx

cyasurfin said:


> Google the name of the boat and find out "the rest of the story" or the beginning or whatever. Interesting! Great video.


I'll yahoo it thanks.


----------

