# Lighting while sailing at night.



## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

I had an interesting experience while racing recently that posed an interesting question.

I was sailing (on a port tack) towards the turning mark of a long distance course in the dark. We were lit like a sailboat should be, running lights and sternlight as well as a masthead red over green sailing light. Closing us on a steady bearing (risk of collision) was a vessel showing sidelights and a white light higher than the side lights. My watch Captain judged that this was a vessel under power and that we (under sail) would have the right of way. When it was apparent that the other vessel wasn't going to give way we crash tacked and got out of its way. As it went by, we saw a sailing vessel (on a starboard tack) with its anchor light on. When I later asked the skipper (he was in the same race) what he was doing, he said that they often sailed with the anchor light on so they could see the masthead wind indicator to ensure they were trimmed right. He claimed he had the right of way (starboard tack vice port tack) He never considered that it would confuse other vessels because his anchor light was on. It was a close call.

Thoughts?

How do you folks see wind direction and set trim at night?

Gaz


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

He was wrong.

My tricolor provides the same convenient illumination of the masthead fly while remaining legal, although there is some risk inshore that people won't look high enough to see the tricolor.

Tell him to get a wind instrument (or another if he already has one) and mount it where the trimmers can see it. That said, I'm not sure what good that will do. We get more value from someone on the windward rail (or cabintop in light air) playing a flashlight over the telltales.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Boaters in our area constantly do this and it drives me crazy.
They will sail with thier steamming light on or with the anchor light on or with both on. They think that it makes them more visable (Or so that they can see thier masthead) but all it realy does is add to the confusion. We don't race, but the results are the same.


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## mazzy (Mar 11, 2006)

I was under sail after dark last summer, proper lights on (no steaming light on) and was hailed by a booze cruise boat who was barreling down on me admonishing me for not showing proper lights. Not by VHF, but on his hailer.  

I presume for the benefit of his drunken party goers on board.

Mike


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

Plumper said:


> How do you folks see wind direction and set trim at night?


My masthead tri-color lights up the windex quite well.

There are special windex lights that I think are designed to cast their light up at the windex instead of out around the boat like an anchor light. They are probably also not as bright as an anchor light either. I've never seen one in action, so I can't say how confusing it might be. In any case, the windex should have reflective tape on the bottom of the fly and markers so you can see them more easily from below.

I've read a lot of discussion about glow-in-the-dark tell-tales on the jib, or tell-tales made out of fluorescent material illuminated by a blacklight set in the foredeck, or fiber-optic tell-tales, but have never actually seen anything like this in person. We just shine a flashlight on the sails when we need to check their trim.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

He's an idiot. *By sailing with the anchor light lit, he's effectively saying that he is under power and given up his rights as a sailboat. * _A sailboat, under 12 meters IIRC can use an all-around white light in addition to a bicolor to indicate that it is under power, rather than using a bicolor, stern and steaming light. _

If you have proper wind instruments aboard, you shouldn't need to light up the windex, since the wind instrument display head, at deck level, usually in the cockpit will give you the same information. If he's too cheap to invest in one...he's gonna get hit one of these days.


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## Gary M (May 9, 2006)

The little Windex lights work great. You can buy the Windex brand name which mounts with your Windex.
The only disadvantage is the extra pair of wires to run up the mast. They just light up the Windex and are not very noticible otherwise.

Running with your steaming or anchor light on is of course wrong and if I had someone in our race fleet who did it I was politely mention it once then protest if he/she continued. 

I should add that occasionaly I have seen the steaming light put on to help wort out a problem on the fore deck but the helnsman should be aware that night vision will be affected and they have no rights.

Gary


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

I'd think you should have protested to the race committee - and had him thrown out as a unsafe participant.
Not everyone can afford or wants a Tridata ST60+ or equivent with repeaters in the cockpit, that doesn't give them permission to conflict with the law, and be unsafe.

OTOH - a flashlight shined at him before it became a crash tack would have shown he was a sailboat - you too have a responsibility to be safe. Assuming the other boat sees you, knows the rules and will obey them has probably dented more sailboats than anything else on the water.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Plumper said:


> I had an interesting experience while racing recently that posed an interesting question.
> 
> snip
> Thoughts?
> ...


That skipper was a dangerous fool. Davis makes a low wattage Windex light that is beneath and slightly forward of the Windex shiny red tabs. You glue (if it isn't on already) a piece of white or yellow reflective tape on the bottom of "the arrow" and this small light, invisible from the front and inconspicuous from the side, lights up the whole device clearly.

Anchor lights are for anchoring. The only other use (and it's illegal, but tolerated) would be as a strobe to indicate position during a Mayday. Few people have this, however, which is good, because it would likely get used to indicate "the party boat".


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

Shining a flashlight on another boat in the dark is not on. That would completely blind the guy that is about to run into you. Not a great move. Perhaps shining a flashlight on your own sails is more appropriate.

Does it matter whether the white light at the top of the mast is a dim windex light or an anchor light? If it is at all visible from another boat it would confuse things wouldn't it? When scanning with binoculars those "low wattage" lights might not seem so low. I suggest that if there are any other boats in the vicinity then using any light at all to illuminate your windex is wrong.


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

Plumper said:


> Does it matter whether the white light at the top of the mast is a dim windex light or an anchor light? If it is at all visible from another boat it would confuse things wouldn't it? When scanning with binoculars those "low wattage" lights might not seem so low.


Except that lights might be shielded in such a way that they are NOT visiable from another boat. (I don't know, just saying it should be possible to design a windex light in such a way).



> I suggest that if there are any other boats in the vicinity then using any light at all to illuminate your windex is wrong.


Except for the masthead tri-color if you are sailing, and that is the only navigation light you are showing.


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

I think that any light you are going to be able to see from 50 feet straight down is going to be visible from elsewhere.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

You could paint the forward 180 degrees of the windex light and it would be fine...for seeing the windex. You could have it on a switch and douse it when approaching another boat.

You have to understand it's like a 2 watt light. The trilight or the running lights on the hull would be far brighter than this, and as it is commonly *behind* the trilight, and *below* its housing, you would only see it from the stern, meaning you'd see a very dim yellowy light, with a freaking bright white stern sector of a trilight above it. 

I've used these. They are dimmer than penlights used in cockpits. If a binnacle light at the helm doesn't cause a collision, neither will this.


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

Plumper said:


> I think that any light you are going to be able to see from 50 feet straight down is going to be visible from elsewhere.


You don't have to see the light from the cockpit, you only need to see the windex. The windex light points straight UP at the windex, so that the light reflects off of the windex. The underside of the windex is tagged with reflective materials, so the light doesn't have to be very bright. Like I said, I believe it should be possible to design a windex light that illuminates the windex without being visible from off the boat.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Plumper-

If the light fixture is properly designed, with the light pointed up, it will not really be visible from any boat, unless your boat is knocked down. The way a Windex light works, it shines the light on the Windex arrow and the guides, so that you can see how it is oriented. It doesn't require any light be cast in a downward direction at all. 

Valiente-

Anchor lights can be used as a combination steaming and stern light on boats less than 12 meters that are under power.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BTW, generally, shining a light at another boat is a bad idea at night. If you blind their helmsman, it can take up to an hour for them to recover any signifcant night vision. Shining it on your sails is a much better idea. 

The only possible exception to this is the bridge of a large ship...where you'll likely not blind them, but will bring your boat to their attention. The bridge on most large ships is far enough away that your light won't blind them, at least at any position where you'll be able to shine it at the bridge.


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

As a person with many hours watchkeeping on large ships (thousands) I think shining the light on your sails is better. Not because the light will blind the BWK but because the sails will glow and the light is just a pinpoint.


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

I use a flashlight when I want to see the windex. Easy, cheap and there when you need it. 

As for ruining the night vision of crew on a boat that's about to run you down....I wouldn't worry about it. Quickly sweep the light across their bridge -- the "flash" won't effect night vision that much, but it may get their attention, which is what you're trying to do in the first place. A strong light on the sails should be the first thing -- followed by the more agressive tactic above.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I will admit to using the anchor light to check the windex at night.  But, I only flip it on for about 5 seconds, then turn it off. After reading this, I'll just use a flashlight...

As for illuminating your own boat to warn another boat of your presence and/or heading at night, I have hit the spreader lights for a few seconds to light up the sails (way more effective than a single flashlight). Again, just for a few seconds, and then they are turned off. Of course, it really helps if you have spreader lights and they work. Mine don't at the moment, so that flashlight in the cockpit is going to get a lot more work...


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Billyruffin, 
"the "flash" won't effect night vision that much"

Wrong answer - it will effect night vision. Does the flash of a camera effect vision?

Do it and you'll be liable if the blind helmsman runs you or anyone else down.

Redlight your sails if you want to get attention. Night blinding a helmsman might get you more attention than you want.


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## US27inKS (Feb 6, 2005)

I've got two problems I think I can solve with one light, but is it legal? When putting together my boat, I installed this light on the masthead http://www.boatersworld.com/product/197260193.htm?bct=t13098025%3Bcielectrical-boat%3Bcilighting%3Bcinavigation-lights

It is a two bulb fixture and I currently have it wired as an anchor light with both bulbs coming on at the same time. The problem is that I can't see my windex at night and my stern light attracts hoards of insects, plus it does impair my night vision a bit. If I wire it so that just the rear facing portion comes on when sailing and kill the stern light, am I still legal? How much risk do you think I'll have with no deck level stern light?


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

I use the windex when cruising as a short cut. When racing with a crew, who cares? If you are beating you know how far you can bring the jib in - bring it all the way in and sail the telltales. At night, that means someone on the rail uses a flashlight so the helm can see the telltales. 

If you are reaching, the helm sets the course and someone on the rail lights up the telltales so the trimmers can see (or calls guidance back to the trimmers).

The windex is a big picture tool, not a tactical trimming tool. You don't need it lit up all the time.


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

ChucklesR wrote:
Billyruffin, 
"the "flash" won't effect night vision that much"

Wrong answer - it will effect night vision. Does the flash of a camera effect vision?

Do it and you'll be liable if the blind helmsman runs you or anyone else down.

Redlight your sails if you want to get attention. Night blinding a helmsman might get you more attention than you want.
---------------

With all do respect to the Rules (see Rule 36) and to fellow sailors here at SailNet, there seem to be several guys posting here that seem more concerned about the night vision of the SoB who's about to run you down than they are about being hit.

"Does a camera flash effect vision?" We're not talking about taking their picture. We're trying to get their attention..... 'cuz they're going to hit us!

Have you ever been driving at night and all of a sudden another motorist, or a police officer, standing in the highway ahead of you, "flashes" (in a sweeping motion) a light in your direction. Does it blind you? No, but it sure does let you know there's something ahead in the road that you probably don't want to hit. That's what I'm talking about when I recommended a "quick sweep" of a light. 

If I'm close enough to "blind" a guy with my 6V flash light, I've already dropped the light into the cockpit and and am cranking hard on the wheel.


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

You probably should be cranking on the wheel long before this (right after you sound five short blasts and flash your light five times).


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Billyruffn - you make an excellent point! I always get annoyed when a pedestrian walks in front of a moving car when the motorist doesn't see them, almost gets run over and then yells "I have the right of way!"

I always told my kids, "You may have the right of way, but if you're dead it really won't matter. Never argue with a ton of metal, you'll lose..."

In our case, never argue with 20 tons of Bayliner bearing down on you...


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

Plumper said:


> You probably should be cranking on the wheel long before this (right after you sound five short blasts and flash your light five times).


Too right, Plumper!


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## Ardie (Aug 27, 2007)

*Your lights were incorrect also*

If I recall correctly, rules of the road specifically prohibits using running lights and tricolor mast head lights at the same time. I read through the first page of responses and was surprised that no one had pointed this out. 
Ardie in Virginia


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## craigjohnston (Aug 7, 2000)

We normally sail with an LED tricolor (to save A-Hrs). On a 3400 nm passage to the Marquesas we saw only one freighter, first by her lights then on radar. Hailing them on VHF, they couldn't see our 44' fiberglass boat (with a good radar reflector) at 2-3 nm until we briefly turned on our strobe . A Windex illuminator might cause confusion in close quarters, but we worry a log more about being seen at all -- we always assume we are invisible.


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## cat38skip (May 30, 2004)

The purpose of a boat showing lights while under way at night is to identify to other boats the type of boat, its' form of propulsion, and course it is following. By showing a different set of lights the sailor trying to light his windex is in violation of various rules of the road and would be found liable in any collision. He surely should have been disqualified from the race, the same as if he had been using a sail that was not allowed by the rules. I have used the small windex light at the masthead for illuminating the windex for many years and it is very effective and virtually invisible to other boats.


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## pvanv1 (Nov 16, 2007)

*Lighting*

When the skipper of a sailing vessel illuminates the masthead steaming light, he is claiming that he is steaming. Period. Therefore, he becomes Power Driven by USCG pecking order. He gives up sailing privilege. In the event of a collision, he would be considered the Give Way vessel. Period. Also, he could be disqualified from the race for operating his motor while racing, depending on the Dailing Directions and/or Notice of Race -- because he declared, by use of lights, that he was Power Driven. Basically, he's an ignorant idiot. I would not illuminate the masthead steaming light during a race, unless safety required it.

That said, of course, it's the USCG Rule of Prudence that mandates that even the Stand On vessel take avoiding action if the Give Way vessel does not yield. Basically, you must take any necessary steps to avoid collision. That action could include contacting the other vessel by light, sound (appropriate horn), radio, etc. One might sound the Danger Signal of 5 horn blasts.

I use the Davis Windex light, and no other boat has ever mentioned that they even notice it. As noted, the intensity is so low that it merely illuminates the reflective tabs on the Windex.

BTW, what brand and model of red-over-green masthead sailing lamp do you use, and for what size vessel is it proper? These lights are difficult to find in western NY?

Paul Van Voorhees
USCG licensed Skipper, with Sailing and Towing endorsements
p.van.v_at_verizon.net


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Come on guys - aren't you missing an important point? Why did anyone on board either boat allow this to get so close as to result in a crash tack? Plumper's boat should have been able to ascertain that this was a sailboat by the glow of the anchor light on sails before it was too late. I would hope there were enough eyes on deck to see this? And obviously Mr. Anchor Light was in the wrong. And why was he not hailing "starboard" to get his right of way? I would call it a draw. No hurt no foul and let that be a lesson for all involved. I'm glad to see that Plumper found the other Captain and discussed this with him. 

After being in about 25 overnight races on the Chesapeake, I've seen this and much more. How about NO LIGHTS - call it stealth mode or dead batteries or just plain stupidity, who knows. Things can certainly sneak up on you quickly at night and maybe Plumper just got caught in a bad spot. And since this was a race, with possibly dozens, if not hundreds of boats out there, shouldn't Plumper's boat have first assumed it was a sailboat and not been tricked into believing it was a powerboat? And even if it was a powerboat that would supposedly give way, the prudent skipper should never assume they are giving way and allow the situation to get so close, especially at night.

Besides windex lights, we have used a clamp-on flashlight (see "Luff Light Flashlight Holder" at Annapolis Performance Sailing) that clamps to a forward stanchion. Get yourself two, one for each side, a good set of batteries, clamp them on and aim them at the jib woolies. Leave them both on and as you tack the woolies get lit up from the other side. Before you concern yourself with more odd looking lights on a boat, keep in mind that the jib will be lit up for all to see that you are a sailboat. It's routine to see many Chesapeake overnight racers with such a light on the sail. All hands on deck ought to also have a small flashlight in their pocket. A mini mag light or equivalent is powerful enough to shine on the sails for a trim check. Use this to periodically check your Windex up top. And there should be a community flashlight floating around the cockpit for the same reason.

Cheers...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

CarlTreff-

A sailboat with its sails up, motorsailing, *is considered a POWERBOAT by COLREGS... *the fact that the sails are up doesn't mean that it is considered a Sailboat under COLREGS. The fact that they were using the wrong lights meant that there was no real way to tell that they were not in fact motor sailing and had right of way as a SAILBOAT.


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## bobwebster (Jan 25, 2005)

On the open ocean in big waves, you can see a mastheadmorring light from a lot farther distance than you can nav lights that are only a few feet off the water. The low lights are hidden by the waves. A better idea (and a lot more proper) is a tricolor at the top of the mast.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

That isn't an excuse for not having the proper lighting for your boat setup. If you sail in heavy seas regularly, you should have both a masthead tricolor and deck-level running lights. However, you do need a steaming light as was pointed out in another thread. Using your anchor light to illuminate the Windex is irresponsible and rather stupid. If you were involved in a collision, there's the question of liability for having the wrong lighting.



bobwebster said:


> On the open ocean in big waves, you can see a mastheadmorring light from a lot farther distance than you can nav lights that are only a few feet off the water. The low lights are hidden by the waves. A better idea (and a lot more proper) is a tricolor at the top of the mast.


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

CarlTreff said:


> Come on guys - aren't you missing an important point? Why did anyone on board either boat allow this to get so close as to result in a crash tack? Plumper's boat should have been able to ascertain that this was a sailboat by the glow of the anchor light on sails before it was too late. I would hope there were enough eyes on deck to see this? And obviously Mr. Anchor Light was in the wrong. And why was he not hailing "starboard" to get his right of way? I would call it a draw. No hurt no foul and let that be a lesson for all involved. I'm glad to see that Plumper found the other Captain and discussed this with him.
> 
> Cheers...


Just for the record, I was racing in a 102' yacht (92 tonnes). The other yacht (about 30') had no idea how big I was or how much room I would need. Tacking that puppy was a lot of work (running backs on both the main and mizzen, no winches, and about 20 crew to get organized). The fact that I could see a white light is enough to make me think it was a power driven vessel. He was wrong, almost dead wrong. We crash tacked because we thought it was a small fishing vessel (not engaged in fishing) just not paying attention.

The race was the Swiftsure in the Straits of Juan de Fuca with busy commercial and fishing traffic. There were more than 100 yachts, not many had their windexs lit, only the stupid ones.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

As Plumper pointed out... they might have gotten hit by a much larger boat because of the confusion caused by their incorrect and illegal lighting setup. 

IMHO, if the guy is too stupid to realize this, he's probably going to get taken out sooner or later by a bigger boat or ship—that will be Darwin's theory in action. If it is just that he is too cheap to do the right thing... then he's probably going to get hit, and the financial hit when the admiralty court decides against him will be justice.


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## blubaju (Aug 26, 2006)

no, he was correct, (masthead) red over green with at least 2' spacing is additional sail boat recognition, you might use or not, you are free to choose but is helps in higher waves to be seen, the sidelights only are often hidden by waves, he did not mention having a tri on


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

What the hell are you talking about??? The problem wasn't with the boat showing the red over green, but the boat they were coming up on, which had sidelights and an all-around white light at the mast top. That is a legal combination for a sailboat under 12 meters under POWER, since they can choose to use an all-around white light in place of the steaming and stern lights. That is the boat under discussion. The problem is that that light signal set indicates a boat under POWER, not one under sail, and as such is supposed to yield to a boat under sail. The confusion caused by his improper use of an anchor light, while under sail, nearly caused a collision.

From the original post:



> *Closing us on a steady bearing (risk of collision) was a vessel showing sidelights and a white light higher than the side lights. *My watch Captain judged that this was a vessel under power and that we (under sail) would have the right of way. When it was apparent that the other vessel wasn't going to give way we crash tacked and got out of its way. As it went by, we saw a sailing vessel (on a starboard tack) with its anchor light on.





blubaju said:


> no, he was correct, (masthead) red over green with at least 2' spacing is additional sail boat recognition, you might use or not, you are free to choose but is helps in higher waves to be seen, the sidelights only are often hidden by waves, he did not mention having a tri on


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## blubaju (Aug 26, 2006)

Yes, you are right, but please read Ardies response again, It is about the lights on Plumbers vessel.

* PLumber: *"We were lit like a sailboat should be, running lights and sternlight as well as a masthead red over green sailing light."

* Ardie: *"*Your lights were incorrect also;* ...rules of the road specifically prohibits using running lights and tricolor mast head lights at the same time. I read through the first page of responses and *was surprised that no one had pointed this out."*

I guess Ardie was associating the term masthead with a tricolor, which in this particular case seems not correct. the upper red of red over green is near or on the mast top. I have permanently installed red white red green above each other with 3' spacing where needed.

But if I am wrong, please let me know to avoid confusion to other sailors ;-)

Henry


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

*Navigation Lights*
Specific lighting configurations are required for vessels operating between sunset and sunrise or in times of restricted visibility. Do not assume that your boat came from the factory or showroom with all the proper equipment. It's your responsibility to make sure your vessel shows the proper lights depending upon its size and the waters in which you are operating.
The U.S. Coast Guard Navigation Rules, International-Inland encompasses lighting requirements for every description of watercraft. The information provided here is intended for power driven and sailing vessels less than 20 meters. The various options are illustrated.
The U.S. Inland Rules apply inside the demarcation lines at the entrances to inlets, bays, rivers, etc. The demarcation lines are shown on coastal charts as magenta dashed lines. Once outside of the demarcation lines, International Rules apply.

Figure 1







*Power Driven Vessels
*Power driven vessels of less than 20 meters shall exhibit navigation lights as shown in Figure 1.(Note: 2 masthead lights are optional for vessels under 50 meters. Vessels over 50 meters will display two masthead lights.) 
Vessels of less than 12 meters in length, may show the lights in either Figure 1 or Figure 2.
 Figure 2









Power driven vessels of less than 7 meters whose maximum speed cannot exceed 7 knots may exhibit an all-around white light, and if practicable sidelights instead of the lights prescribed above, in international waters only.Figure 3







*Sailing Vessels and Vessels Under Oars
*Sailing vessels less than 20 meters may exhibit the navigation lights shown in Figures 3 or 4.Figure 4








Figure 5







Another option for sailboats is to use a single combination lantern at the top of the mast as shown in Figure 5.Figure 6







Sailing vessels less than 7 meters may carry an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light to be displayed in sufficient time to prevent collision (see Figure 6 - left picture). 
If practicable, the lights prescribed for sailing vessels less than 20 meters should be displayed.
Vessels under oars may display the lights prescribed for sailing vessels, but if not, must have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light to be displayed in sufficient time to prevent collision (see Figure 6 - right picture).
 *
Shapes and Lights
*To alert other vessels of conditions which may be hazardous, there are requirements to display lights at night and shapes during the day.
 Figure 7








*Anchored Vessels
*Power driven vessels and sailing vessels at anchor must display anchor lights. An anchor light for a vessel less than 50 meters in length is an all-around white light visible for 2 miles exhibited where it can best be seen (see Figure 7).
Vessels at anchor shall exhibit forward where best seen, a ball shape (see Figure 8).  Figure 8







Vessels less than 7 meters are not required to display anchor lights or day shapes unless anchored in or near a narrow channel, fairway or anchorage, or where other vessels normally navigate. 

Anchor lights are not required on vessels less than 20 meters, anchored in special anchorages in inland waters designated by the Secretary of Transportation. Figure 9







*Sailing Vessels Under Power
* Vessels under sail also being propelled by machinery, must exhibit forward where best seen, a conical shape with the apex pointing down (see Figure 9). 
Vessels less than 12 meters are not required to exhibit the dayshape in inland waters.
Sailing vessels operating under machinery, or under sail and machinery are considered power driven and must display the lights prescribed for a power driven vessel.
 Figure 10


 
 



*source: http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/course/boating/4_2_b.php*
​


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Thanks for clarifying that... BTW, the vertical separation between the red and green lights is supposed to be a meter IIRC, not 2'.

Ardie was correct in what he said about not having a tricolor and deck-level lights on at the same time, but incorrect about it being applicable to Plumper's boat, which wasn't flying a tricolor at the time-since Plumper clearly states he was running a red over green, which is allowed with deck level bicolor and stern light.


blubaju said:


> Yes, you are right, but please read Ardies response again, It is about the lights on Plumbers vessel.
> 
> * PLumber: *"We were lit like a sailboat should be, running lights and sternlight as well as a masthead red over green sailing light."
> 
> ...


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## sanctuarysam (Sep 16, 2006)

*awesome post*

prolly on of the best postings i've seen recently..
thanks from all mariners who will bwnefit from this short tutorial


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

*Shining lights in the pilothouses of other vessels*



sailingdog said:


> BTW, generally, shining a light at another boat is a bad idea at night. If you blind their helmsman, it can take up to an hour for them to recover any signifcant night vision. Shining it on your sails is a much better idea.
> 
> The only possible exception to this is the bridge of a large ship...where you'll likely not blind them, but will bring your boat to their attention. The bridge on most large ships is far enough away that your light won't blind them, at least at any position where you'll be able to shine it at the bridge.


I mentioned this issue in another thread ont he matter of navigation lights recently but I'll do so again as it's important. Dog, you and BillyRuffin are very much wrong on the matter. First off it is illegal by US code. Second off, you will blind the bridge watch on the other vessel. BillyRuffin's references to automobiles is misplaced. You do not develop night vision behind the wheel of a car to the extent that you do on a ship's bridge.

The various ship's pilots associations tkae this matter very seriously and do all in their power to identify boats using this practise and report them to the USCG. Given that the piliot's are essentially in contact with every commercial vessel underway within the area, there's a good chance you'll be identified and reported. I watched a Moran tug follow a boat for some miles in pusuit of just such information so as to make a report for the "embarassment" of another ship.

If you feel that illuminating your sail is not getting the attention of the ship and you're that close that you're considering lighting up his pilothouse, you'd be better served by shining your light across his bow and moving it from a horizontal position to a vertical position, stopping at the vertical to illuminate your mainsail.

In 99% of the cases where I've encountered this situation it has been due to inattentive watchkeeping on the sailboat's part. They've gotten themselves into a situation they should never have been in because they were not keeping a proper lookout or incorrectly assumed that a sailboat has the right of way under all circumstances. You're drawing, at most, ten feet of water. Stay out of the shipping channel; it's highly unlikely a ship is going to run you down after chasing you into skinny water. It's every ship's master and operator's responsibility to be aware of his surroundings at all times. If you are, you are far less likely to get into these situations in the first place.


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

Ditto.
Do not shine a light at the bridge of any other vessel.


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

Sailaway, 

I think I understand your passion on this subject, and I agree without reservation that we don't want people out there with 3 million candlepower search lights indescriminately illuminating ships bridges when at close range -- or pointing bright lights of any kind at ships that are harmlessly "passing in the night". What I was talking about in my earlier posts was a situation in which a helmsman on a small yacht finds himself in a close crossing situation with a larger ship that isn't responding to other, more conventional (and appropriate) means of attracting attention. Specifically, I was referring to using a hand-held flashlight -- of the 6V variety that many of us carry in the cockpit to illuminate the sails, rig, and deck at night -- and sweeping it back and forth while pointed in the general direction of the boat that's approaching you. I think this type of action very much in the spirit of what you recommended when you wrote in the post above:

-------
"If you feel that illuminating your sail is not getting the attention of the ship and you're that close that you're considering lighting up his pilothouse, you'd be better served by shining your light across his bow and moving it from a horizontal position to a vertical position, stopping at the vertical to illuminate your mainsail."
------

As a practical matter, I think it would be hard to know exactly where the bridge of the approaching ship is when all you can see is the lights, but if one can discern the bow from the bridge -- I agree, the bow is a better place to sweep your light.

I also agree entirely with your statement that shallow draft sailboats should stay out of the way of commercial traffic, day or night, in or out of marked channels; and, that if you're in a situation where you're at risk of being run down, it probably could have been avoided by earlier action on the part of the smaller vessel.

To that point, I've been in crossing situations at night were I was the stand-on vessel and the give way vessel just kept "comming on". I've never had this happen with a tug or other coastal commercial vessel whose bridges seem to always comeback immediately on Ch 16/13, but it has happened several times with commercial vessels offshore when it seem to me probable that the other guy was on autopilot with a minimal bridge watch on duty. 

In this situation you're asking yourself -- "Rules say I should 'stand on', but does he see me? Should I maneuver to stay clear? When? Do I wait until I'm 'in extremis'?" 

The dilemma in this situation is which rule do you break? Do you use a white light (or other means) to try to attract some attention at the risk of "embarrasing" him? Or before things get really dramatic, do you turn away, and risk confusing the other guy as to your intentions. My normal practice when it's clear that we're closing in a constant bearing situation is to make a sharp 180 deg turn and start increasing the range between us as fast a possible. I do this well before the range between us put us in any real danger**, and I do so under the presumption that he is on autopilot, he doesn't see me because his bridgewatch is getting a cup of coffee, and he isn't likely to be changing his course regardless of what I do. 

But, in changing course while 1/2 mile or more away, I am breaking the rules... right?  

** Sometimes all this can't happen as quickly as one might wish. Plumper had the example of a big boat with runners rigged, but I've faced the need to maneuver while I had the "right of way" and the boat is running downwind, wing-and-wing with both boom and spinaker pole screwed down tight for the night, crew's asleep below...etc. No fun. It's in situations like these when there's a tendency to rely on your status as 'stand on vessel' and wait just a bit too long to see if the other guy is going to alter course.

--------------------

Post Script: Speaking of commercial vessels and lights at night, I'd be interested in knowing how cruise ships get away with sailing at night lit up like cities, and with deck, stack and other lights so numerous and so bright that they all but wash out and render invisible the navigation lights. The red or green sidelights get lost in a broad field of white spots....and which of those white spots are the range lights?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Just remember, when it comes down to it... the ultimate responsibility of any captain is to avoid collision, if at all possible. That is clearly written into the COLREGS, and is required regardless of whether you're the stand-on vessel or the give-way vessel, or constrained by draft, fishing, under sail, on starboard tack or whatever.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

BillyRuffin,
I fully understand your concern, and the worry, when in that situation. And if using a small power light, you'll probably find that illuminating your sail is still the most effective. Anything that is capable of being seen as making a light imprint on the other vessel is wholly capable of blinding the bridge watch on that vessel. Much less power lights are as well. You've probably been in situations where you've found it helpful to not look directly at a buoy's light as you pass it at night. Using your peripheral vision to observe it helps preserve your night vision. But you know the buoy is going to flash and you can train your sight to the side. The bridge watch on the ship is looking for dim lights ahead, perhaps your sidelights, and so your bright flash will catch them staring full on.

You are not require to break any of the rules to stay afloat. I would submit that you are doing exactly the right thing by your changing course. You are in fact required to do so at which point you determine that the actions of the give way vessel alone are insufficient to make avoidance of collision impossible. Most do not leave it quite that late. There's an old adage; when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout. It's an easy way to remember that, if there is to be a collision, let it be the other vessel hitting you in the stern, running way. Many is the time when, in doubt as to the other vessel's intentions, that I've made a 'round turn, completing a full 360 degree turn so as to pass under their stern. I do this at some distance if possible, as I've more than once found that I no sooner put the helm over and the other ship alters course to starboard to give way. In extremis, it's the only thing you can reliably do.

You'll find that most ships do in fact see you but are unwilling to run all over the ocean to miss you. This happens primarily in areas where there is a fair amount of small boat traffic the intentions of which are most difficult to assertain. I'm not discussing traffic seperation schemes here but more normal shipping lanes, like running the beach a mile or so off the Florida coast when south-bound. The ship that continually changes course soon runs into a situation where it's intentions are unknown to all. Given that it's speed it's likely to be far greater than most sailboats, the ship is likely to make a small change as to open up the CPA while not running all over the ocean. His definition of a safe CPA might be radically different than your's. (g) And a close inshore CPA may be unavoidable while anything under a mile offshore I found uncomfortable, no matter how little clothing she was wearing. (g)

Most sailors do not have to deal with a large number of ships, compared to other craft of similar size to their own. As a sailor I make it a policy to stay well clear by examining the chart to make a determination as to where he might be going, ie... normal course changes, and taking early and substantial action to stand clear. Anotherwords, I avoid getting into situations where the rules of the road apply. That's widely regarded as the "big-boat rule". It doesn't alter the rules of the road, it merely is a reflection of the intuitive knowledge that ship's neither turn nor stop as quickly as smaller vessels. I'd wager that you'll have far more close encounters with similar sized vessels than you will with ships. Early, substantial action, that cannot be mistaken for any other action is the best policy, not just in fog.

The cruise ship phenomena is truly a royal pain in the you-know-what. On board ship, you have the advantage of radar and can get a good idea what they're up to. They're generally doing about six knots on a slow course to nowhere. Look for the "dark end" of the ship, that'll be her bow. You're correct in that you'll only see her navigation lights when she's headed right towards you. It's helpfull to not look directly at the ship but to look low, down towards the waterline, and thus not be blinded by those port-lights.

Naval vessels, paricularly aircraft carriers, can make cruise ships seem a pleasure, especially at night. You'll find no other vessels with seemingly less knowledge (not true) of the Rules or less perception of applicability (true) than your average aircraft carrier. Once you understand that it's likely commanded by a fly-boy with big gonads and the idea that a good CPA is about twelve feet, you'll be well on your way to understanding their manoeuverings. These guys do have a better than average number of collisions, mostly because of the close-in formation work they do, but also because they think little of getting into close quarters situations. Aircraft carriers, particularly at night, are the worst because they are covered with red night vision deck lighting both on deck and on the exposed portions of the hanger deck. They are also in the habit of steaming along sedately at 13 knots or so, with the rest of their escort group, and suddenly radically altering course, usually into the wind, because some fly-boy wants to launch aircraft for fun. The fact that they go from 13 knots to 33 knots in a very short period of time can make proximity rather unnerving. And good luck getting them to answer the VHF under the best of circumstances; it's their least important radio they're listening to. And, btw, their radar isn't any better at picking up sailboats than the merchant ship's is. While re-fueling them, I've had more than one of them respond "what sailboat" to one we'd first picked up on the 3cm and now had visually. You and I, on a merchant ship, are just not a big concern to them. Most captains have a standing order, in theri night orders, that when one is sighted to wake him up. You cannot get far enough away from those guys. The cruise ship will generally act rationally. An aircraft carrier thinks nothing of altering course across the approaches to Galveston shipping lane at an oblique angle resulting in serious "WTF's, over?" on half a dozen tanker ship bridges.

Good thread.


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

Sailaway,
Rgr that with respect to carriers. I was on the bridge of one once while transiting the Straights of Gibraltar -- doing 25 kts, 0200 hrs, all the lights out and in total emcon save a simple commercial surface radar. Scared the sh-t out of a couple of guys crossing N-S. But then...we had a mission and a schedule to keep and were trying to keep the other side from finding us. There's a different set of rules for CVAs. It's best to give them all the room they might think they need.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

billyruffn said:


> Sailaway,
> Rgr that with respect to carriers. I was on the bridge of one once while transiting the Straights of Gibraltar -- doing 25 kts, 0200 hrs, all the lights out and in total emcon save a simple commercial surface radar. Scared the sh-t out of a couple of guys crossing N-S. But then...we had a mission and a schedule to keep and were trying to keep the other side from finding us. There's a different set of rules for CVAs. It's best to give them all the room they might think they need.


That was you, you a*****! You nearly gave me a heart attack. (a vbg)


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## TheBlackPearl (Sep 18, 2006)

I had a very similar experience last summer except the other boat wasn't a sailboat but a U.S. Coast Guard RIB! I was displaying proper lights and on a port tack just after dark when this Coastie boat makes a sharp turn and cuts across my bow maybe 15-20' away. Mind you now this is a rather LARGE lake and there are absolutely no other boats within sight. My best guestimate is that he was headed directly at me at a speed of perhaps 20kts and behind the genoa until he made his rather abrupt turn and cut in front of me. The next morning i went to the local station and had a nice conversation with a rather inexperienced individual who claimed that the boat was most likely "performing night-time navigation exercises and probably didn't see me." 

I'll let you draw your own conclusions to that one but i can't possibly understand why any boater, let alone a U.S. Coast Guard Captain wouldn't know not only proper lighting rules, but would blatantly disregard safe passing distances for whatever reason. It's one thing to be sailing in fog and not see someone until the very last minute, but IMHO what happened to me was just plain absurd. 

That being said I'd like to point out the tremendous amount of respect that i have for ALL Coast Guardsmen/women. It is them who not only keep all of us safe by maintaining safe waterways and proper aids to nav., but it's also them who'll fly out in the middle of the most ridiculous storm imaginable to pluck my butt from a certain watery grave that may await. Unfortunately due to a medical condition, i wasn't allowed into the Academy. But i still, and will always carry a place in my heart for the folks who do such a thank-less job. 

Kudos to all of you and god bless!


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## PCP777 (Apr 7, 2009)

Sorry for bumping this thread but I have an amusing story:

This reminds me of an incident on the lake. Lots of boats out here (not me) sail with the mast head anchor light under sail even though technically that's illegal. They don't know what they don't know I guess or maybe they think ti looks cool. 
A friend of mine, who is a licensed captain and charters his Hunter 37 for a living, got pulled over by the game warden, the lake's version of the Coast Guard but much nastier. My friend was sailing at night and had his appropriate running lights on. The game warden told him to put on his anchor light. My friend politely argued, telling the game warden that doing so would put him out of compliance with the law, as the anchor light should only be put on when you are not moving and have the anchor set. He offered to show the game warden the copy of the law, in one of his seamanship books. The game warden then asked, "Are you going to turn on that damned light or are you going to go to jail?" Needless to say, my friend turned on the anchor light and went on his way.


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## bobwebster (Jan 25, 2005)

This brings up a couple of lighting questions I have been wondering about:

1. If I decide I want to drift for a couple of hours (offshore) and get some sleep, should I turn on the anchor light?

2. Offshore, is it advisable to turn on the anchor light for visibility if I don't care about my sailing right of way? The nav lights are pretty low and are liable to be obscured if there are big waves.


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

NO to both. While sleeping at sea (alone) violates the requirement for a lookout, the proper lights to show would be "Not Under Command": red over red. If you are showing an anchor light for any reason other than anchored, you are not in compliance. I suspect that commercial traffic relies more now on electronics than anything. Use a radar reflector and consider AIS.


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