# Gunboat 55 Dismasted, Abandoned off Hatteras...



## JonEisberg

The first question obviously, end of January, WTF were they doing out there, with this sort of weather?










Here's the initial report, posted by Gunboat's Peter Johnstone over on SA:



> Posted Today, 05:34 PM
> 
> Please say a prayer for RAINMAKER's crew.
> 
> RAINMAKER was dismasted today 36 hours into her passage out of the Gunboat yard about 200 miles SE of Hattaras. From the very brief and patchy sat phone call, and various brief texts, the following is all we have been told:
> 
> *Everyone is accounted for aboard, including the owner, his son, and three professional crew.
> *The rig was promptly cut away.
> *The boat was not holed.
> *At the last update there were no injuries.
> 
> Conditions are evidently quite severe. It is not uncommon for the cold NW winds to accelerate over the Gulf Stream to windspeeds well above what may show on grib files. They have a large South swell, and are faced with deteriorating conditions with a building NW breeze in the Gulf Stream. Waves and swells have been observed from onboard to be getting worse over the course of the day.
> 
> An onboard decision has been made to be airlifted off of the boat. The US Coast Guard expects to be on site within 30 minutes.
> 
> These people are a part of our Gunboat family. Please say a prayer for the safe recovery of the RAINMAKER crew and the safety of the USCG rescue team that has been dispatched. An airlift is not an easy operation in any conditions, never mind these conditions. The Atlantic in February is a merciless place.
> 
> ...
> 
> Thank you everyone. All five crew from Rainmaker have been safely airlifted off of RAINMAKER moments ago and are in a helicopter on their way back to shore.
> 
> Gunboat and RAINMAKER's insurer are actively coordinating her salvage. This will not be easy as conditions are meant to be terrible on Monday.
> 
> PLEASE SAY A PRAYER FOR RAINMAKER'S CREW - Multihull Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums


Wow, just _WOW..._

Do you suppose he spilled his Martini?

Hope he treats the CG Rescue Swimmer and Helo crew to a couple, after their return to Elizabeth City... ;-)

Forbes Life


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## tempest

Always sorry to hear about the loss of a vessel. Glad all are safe. The wind is howling outside my door. Linus is also on the way. No way, I'd want to be off Cape Hattaras 

Article said that they had a computer aided reefing system.


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## JonEisberg

Tempest said:


> Always sorry to hear about the loss of a vessel. Glad all are safe. The wind is howling outside my door. Linus is also on the way. No way, I'd want to be off Cape Hattaras
> 
> Article said that they had a computer aided reefing system.


_EVERYTHING_ on that boat is computer-aided... 

There is no electrical panel, for instance - only touch screens... (pics are from the older Gunboat 60)










Load sensors on all the components of the rig, which one would think would alleviate much of the risk of a dismasting... The sheets can be set to release when loads reach a preset limit, and there are 'Sheet Dump' buttons at a number of locations around the boat...










GUNBOAT 60: The Future Is Now | Sailfeed

Still, in the wake of the loss of the Alpha 42 BE GOOD TOO in similar circumstances last winter, you've gotta wonder whether the loss of Hull #1 of the latest state of the art multihull in the North Atlantic in January is gonna become a regular thing?

As you say, it's blowing like hell here on the Jersey coast tonight, can't imagine what it's like down off Hatteras right now... However, this weather was well forecast in advance, more than 36 hours ago, the timing of this one seems like a bit of a head-scratcher, for sure...


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## RTB

Jon, what are your thoughts about the dismasting? I wouldn't care to go in that weather, but from what I read, all the Bluewater cruiser's boats would easily handle 30-40 knots, and 12' seas....

Seriously though, I'm happy everyone made it ok. 

We made some friends in Brunswick, Georgia, that had friends on a cat that lost the rig during the Caribbean 1500/SDR, or around that time back in 2013. I'm not sure they were actually in either event. The weather was not all that extreme, but the seas were very confused. Waves from every direction. I've been on a 46' cat, and know the motion is very different than a mono. I'd speculate the same applies in this case. 

So, maybe speculate on the conditions and the reason for the rig failure.

Ralph


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## smackdaddy

That's a damn fine boat:






A dismasting? Hmm...










Maybe the sprit let go? Or a shroud?


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## T37Chef

Hate to be their insurance carrier


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## newhaul

Glad to hear all are safe but wtf looked at Sunday and looks much better to get sea room why did they get underway into that soup waiting for 48 hours would have made sense to me must have been on the worst thing possible ( a schedule)


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## chall03

Again glad to hear all is safe. 

I am having some trouble understanding the decision to abandon with 5 people onboard and the rig cut free, it would seem in a boat of that size and capability quite feasible to run for the the nearest port?

I wasn't onboard so don't want to second guess decisions made, but perhaps we are missing some information here.


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## Pamlicotraveler

Here is an interesting article in Forbes:

_Scudding through New York Harbor amid bobbing sailboats, looming fuel barges and the orange-hulled Staten Island Ferry, Brian Cohen's $2.5 million Gunboat 55 catamaran is an island of calm. Guests sip a crisp Sancerre at a table in the yacht's teak-decked salon as Cohen steers the boat downwind toward Manhattan. _


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## Minnewaska

chall03 said:


> .......I am having some trouble understanding the decision to abandon with 5 people onboard and the rig cut free, it would seem in a boat of that size and capability quite feasible to run for the the nearest port?......


A northerly gale in the Gulf Stream with swell from the south. That's almost the textbook definition of bad. Those waves must have been standing straight up. A rollover in a dismasted catamaran was a real risk and they don't come back over.

Hard to imagine the logic of pressing into it.


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## JonEisberg

RTB said:


> Jon, what are your thoughts about the dismasting? I wouldn't care to go in that weather, but from what I read, *all the Bluewater cruiser's boats would easily handle 30-40 knots, and 12' seas....*


Well, not sure I'd go with _"easily"_... ;-)

I have little doubt the conditions out there were pretty bad, and quite possibly much worse than reported. no way I'd care to be out there right not, on ANY boat ;-) I don't know their exact location/proximity to the Stream, but Johnstone refers to a large swell running in from the S... With the wind out of the NW-N, the seas would have been extremely chaotic. And, unless you've sailed in the winter, it's easy to forget how much 'heavier' 40 knots of breeze is in cold weather, than in a more normal sailing season...



RTB said:


> Seriously though, I'm happy everyone made it ok.


This one sounded like a VERY close shave... The CG helo didn't even make it back to their base in Elizabeth City, but rather landed at the Dare County Airport on Roanoke Island, touching down "on fumes", according to Johnstone... I can't recall ever hearing of that, before, yikes...

Here's the CG video, click on the pic to view:

Video Update: Coast Guard hoists 5 from damaged sailboat 200 miles off NC coast



RTB said:


> We made some friends in Brunswick, Georgia, that had friends on a cat that lost the rig during the Caribbean 1500/SDR, or around that time back in 2013. I'm not sure they were actually in either event. The weather was not all that extreme, but the seas were very confused. Waves from every direction. I've been on a 46' cat, and know the motion is very different than a mono. I'd speculate the same applies in this case.
> 
> So, maybe speculate on the conditions and the reason for the rig failure.
> 
> Ralph


Whatever I say will be pure speculation, for certain ;-) My experience with large multihulls offshore is non-existent, after all.... However, I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, that the sort of '4-cornered' motion of a multi in such a chaotic sea state might create the tendency for a greater degree of sort of 'snatching' loads on the rig, than a monohull would likely see...

Most of my experience on a large cat was a 10 day charter on a Lagoon 47 in Croatia.... It was early in the summer, we had a LOT of wind, and a lot of sailing in very choppy and confused seas. The captain was very experienced, but a bit of a cowboy, and didn't believe in reefing ;-) Frankly, the massive loads that were produced on that boat scared the hell out of me, there is no way such a boat would ever be my personal choice for extended voyaging, but that's just me.... I'm a wimp when it comes to larger boat size, anyway... 

Bottom line, however, is I'd love to know what their passage plan was... I wasn't watching down there specifically, but I know the weather we're seeing here in NJ right now was very well forecast, days in advance... And, looking at Passageweather, any attempt to salvage that boat is gonna be VERY costly. Hell, the thing might be halfway to freakin' Ireland before they get a towline on it...


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## JonEisberg

Latest update from Johnstone:



> Posted Today, 08:38 AM
> 
> This morning's update: Sustained winds were 30-35 knots. Squalls had been in the 40 knot range for most of the day. A full whiteout squall hit that initially looked no different than the other squalls. Sails were up as there was no indication of squalls with winds above 40 knots. A wall of wind hit at up to 70 knots. There was no opportunity to get the sails down. The mast came down with the wall of wind. Am simply relieved these guys are all safe.


Yup, sounds like the North Atlantic off Hatteras in January, alright...


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## Minnewaska

JonEisberg said:


> Latest update from Johnstone:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posted Today, 08:38 AM
> 
> This morning's update: Sustained winds were 30-35 knots. Squalls had been in the 40 knot range for most of the day. A full whiteout squall hit that initially looked no different than the other squalls. Sails were up as there was no indication of squalls with winds above 40 knots. A wall of wind hit at up to 70 knots. There was no opportunity to get the sails down. The mast came down with the wall of wind. Am simply relieved these guys are all safe.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, sounds like the North Atlantic off Hatteras in January, alright...
Click to expand...

They mean to say the "auto-dump" didn't work as advertised? That's a shocker.


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## Minnewaska

I were the insurance company and covering a multi-million dollar hull on a blue water passage, I would require an onboard PLB/Spot/GPS tracker of some kind with a 5-10 day battery. Wait for the seas to calm. Salvage is probably worth it in these rare cases. No point going to look for a boat worth hundreds of thousands, but millions is quite different.


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## MarkofSeaLife

smackdaddy said:


> Maybe the sprit let go? Or a shroud?


The shrouds are 14 mm dyneema... Takes a bit to brake it. But Hatteras can do it with a northerly. Just ask the capt of the Bounty.

Or even the gospell according to me: "A fool and his life are soon parted".

Just another ******** who thought their boat better than nature. And Hatteras is a great testing ground for nature...

But I am sure some will try to justify (yawn) why they should have been out there.


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## JonEisberg

Minnewaska said:


> They mean to say the "auto-dump" didn't work as advertised? That's a shocker.


On the other hand, there are worse things than losing a rig... On a multihull, one would be going upside down... There might be 5 dead bodies floating around out there right now, if that rig hadn't come down...

If it happened to an Atlantic 57, seems it could happen to a Gunboat 55:

LossOfAnna


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## Group9

In the end, I think we all know why they were probably out there. Somebody that thought that boat just had to be somewhere on a particular day, and damn the weather forecast.


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## Don L

My theory is that the weakest link failed, the skipper. Pretty much like most production boat problems.


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## Minnewaska

A 55ft Gunboat is a ton of boat. They may have thought she could take a lot of seas or maybe even outrun a problem. Besting 20kts through the water is not uncommon on that ship. The problem is, doing 20kts and hitting a wall of water, hurts the boat. Might even dismast it, huh.


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## JonEisberg

Group9 said:


> In the end, I think we all know why they were probably out there. Somebody that thought that boat just had to be somewhere on a particular day, and damn the weather forecast.


Well, I'm not sure even the powers that be at Gunboat have the sort of clout to push back the dates of the Miami Boat Show back by a week, or two...



Gotta allow a bit more time when heading south, this time of the year... In fairness, wouldn't surprise me if that big Northeaster we had recently might have delayed their initial departure a bit...


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## Minnewaska

JonEisberg said:


> Well, I'm not sure even the powers that be at Gunboat have the sort of clout to push back the dates of the Miami Boat Show back by a week, or two.........


Do we know that is where they were going? Dumbasses, if they were. Classic screwup.


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## JonEisberg

Minnewaska said:


> Do we know that is where they were going? Dumbasses, if they were. Classic screwup.


I think it's a safe assumption... The Gunboat 55 is on the list of exhibitors in Miami, and RAINMAKER is - to the best of my knowledge - the only 55 that has been completed, so far...

EDIT: Oops, looks like I might be wrong about that...

Turns out there is a Hull #2 that has been launched, named VANDAL... And, the homeport is Miami Beach, so... who knows?

http://www.gunboat.com/5502-vandal-jumping-joy/


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## HR28sailor

Nice boat, but not a hand hold fitted anywhere in the cabin. just an observation. Glad all are safe. lucky very lucky...


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## Group9

JonEisberg said:


> Well, I'm not sure even the powers that be at Gunboat have the sort of clout to push back the dates of the Miami Boat Show back by a week, or two...
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta allow a bit more time when heading south, this time of the year... In fairness, wouldn't surprise me if that big Northeaster we had recently might have delayed their initial departure a bit...


Well, I'm sure they will be selling the hell out of them when they tell people at the show that the reason they don't have one at the boat show is because it was dis-masted and abandoned on the way there ! ! !


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## desert rat

A wall of wind hit at up to 70 kt. This brought a horrible thought to mind. Micro burst; 
How many aircraft have been lost due to this phenom, much less a wind powered boat.


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## bobmcgov

desert rat said:


> A wall of wind hit at up to 70 kt. This brought a horrible thought to mind. Micro burst;
> How many aircraft have been lost due to this phenom, much less a wind powered boat.


Dunno, DR. Sounds like a perfectly normal day in the North Altantic in January. Could have been some squall outflow, yes, but that's hardly news when northerly winds run into the warm gulfstream. Is anyone buying the Act of God defense, given the 500 year history of shipping getting hammered by exactly those conditions in exactly that place? If there is a North Atlantic Storm God that capriciously wrecks boats, Diamond Shoals is His approximate wintertime address. 

Johnstone's "They were getting hammered by violent squalls all day, but we didn't expect _really strong_ winds like this!" sounds a lot like Abby Sunderland's "It was a wave -- a rogue wave!" Neighborhood of Kerguelen in winter? Child, they're *all* rogue waves. That's why you don't put yourself in their path. Freakin' arrogance.


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## Minnewaska

I find the 70kt wind wall to be a pretty convenient story.


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## BarryL

Hey,

I saw that boat during the 2014 Around Long Island Regatta. We were reaching at 7 kts or so with around 15 kts of wind on the beam. The seas were rough but the boat and crew were doing great. This giant cat came screaming past like we weren't even moving. It was very impressive to see. 

I have no idea why the boat was dismasted but there was a lot of very experienced people aboard.

Barry


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## miatapaul

JonEisberg said:


> I think it's a safe assumption... The Gunboat 55 is on the list of exhibitors in Miami, and RAINMAKER is - to the best of my knowledge - the only 55 that has been completed, so far...
> 
> EDIT: Oops, looks like I might be wrong about that...
> 
> Turns out there is a Hull #2 that has been launched, named VANDAL... And, the homeport is Miami Beach, so... who knows?
> 
> GUNBOAT 5502 VANDAL: JUMPING FOR JOY | Gunboat


Those graphics on that thing are FUGLY! Wow, goes to prove that money can't buy you taste. Looks like a big motor home graphics. Perhaps they wanted a nicer looking boat to be at the show?

To me it seems this was at least partially due to a dependance on electronics. If you have to have electronics to sense the stress on your rig, I think you are going to have problems sooner or later, this time it was sooner.


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## JonEisberg

Group9 said:


> Well, I'm sure they will be selling the hell out of them when they tell people at the show that the reason they don't have one at the boat show is because it was dis-masted and abandoned on the way there ! ! !


Looks like my hunch about Miami is wrong (wouldn't be the first time ;-))

Sounds like they were bound for the E Caribbean, instead. According to this poster on SA, leaving in that weather should have made the ride a walk in the park, Gunboats normally eat that sort of weather up... ;-)

Not sure I'm buying all of that, take it for what it's worth, but this guy has a hell of a lot more time sailing those things than I do... )

Perhaps the owner's Martini wouldn't have spilled after all...

PLEASE SAY A PRAYER FOR RAINMAKER'S CREW - Page 2 - Multihull Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums


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## Minnewaska

JonEisberg said:


> ..... According to this poster on SA, leaving in that weather should have made the ride a walk in the park, Gunboats normally eat that sort of weather up... ;-)....


Read the position. I don't buy it. A smoking sleigh ride that is slamming into oncoming steep swell. They didn't mention that. Wouldn't surprise me that the mast broke forward, via momentum. Do we know exactly?


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## JonEisberg

Minnewaska said:


> Read the position. I don't buy it. A smoking sleigh ride that is slamming into oncoming steep swell. They didn't mention that. Wouldn't surprise me that the mast broke forward, via momentum. Do we know exactly?


Nah, I'm not buying it, either... Hitting 30+ knots at night in 35-50 knots of breeze, cup of coffee in one hand? Well, that's _possible_, I suppose... ;-)

yeah, sounds like the weather window was ideal, the boat perfect, the only mistake might have been made by someone at Hall Spars, perhaps...

Otherwise, just another one that gets filed in the 'Sh_t Happens' category...

;-))


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## Multihullgirl

Appropriate for the SA thread, and for this one:
" pretty pathetic display of a bunch of computer jockeys criticizing people who are actually doing something pretty cool - in the real world." --us7070


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## MarkofSeaLife

Oh, thes 8 Gunboats racing in a series in the Caribbean starting shortly in the BVIs, the Heineken regatta SXM, the Anitgua.

So maybe they were headiing here for that. Mind you, I did understand all 8 to be 66's.


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## UnionPacific

I think the rig was well designed. If the rig had held together, the boat may have flipped. All could be dead now. WHY did they abandon ship thou? Were they taking on water, or did they just stop having a good time?


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## chall03

Minnewaska said:


> A northerly gale in the Gulf Stream with swell from the south. That's almost the textbook definition of bad. Those waves must have been standing straight up. A rollover in a dismasted catamaran was a real risk and they don't come back over.
> 
> Hard to imagine the logic of pressing into it.


When you put it like that.......it doesn't sound like a lot of fun


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## JonEisberg

A few more details from Peter Johnstone, via Charlie Doane...

Lines wrapped around the props would have made maneuvering alongside that merchant ship a bit 'tricky', to say the least... ;-)

RAINMAKER ABANDONED: Gunboat 55 Hull No. 1 Dismasted, Crew Evacuated by Helo


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## aeventyr60

More excellent work by the hero's of the USCG!


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## miatapaul

Multihullgirl said:


> Appropriate for the SA thread, and for this one:
> " pretty pathetic display of a bunch of computer jockeys criticizing people who are actually doing something pretty cool - in the real world." --us7070


Yea, calling the Coast Guard is real cool.


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## Minnewaska

JonEisberg said:


> ...Lines wrapped around the props would have made maneuvering alongside that merchant ship a bit 'tricky', to say the least... ;-)


Interesting. Think the motors were running to keep her properly positioned against very confused seas?


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## mbianka

I think I found the cause of the problem. This is a quote from the Gunboat Facebook page: 
_"It's easy to understand the universal enthusiasm for the 17.35-meter catamaran. From daysailing to circumnavigation, the Gunboat 55 can handle whatever type of adventure you throw at it."
_

The Atlantic Ocean then replied: "Oh yeah?":laugher


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## UnionPacific

mbianka said:


> I think I found the cause of the problem. This is a quote from the Gunboat Facebook page:
> _"It's easy to understand the universal enthusiasm for the 17.35-meter catamaran. From daysailing to circumnavigation, the Gunboat 55 can handle whatever type of adventure you throw at it."
> _
> 
> The Atlantic Ocean then replied: "Oh yeah?":laugher


+1
I had a recent moment of hubris too. 
I said, my BMW can go anywhere, then this happened.









Coast guard rescue was quick and painless in my case.


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## Minnewaska

mbianka said:


> I think I found the cause of the problem. This is a quote from the Gunboat Facebook page:
> _"It's easy to understand the universal enthusiasm for the 17.35-meter catamaran. From daysailing to circumnavigation, the Gunboat 55 can handle whatever type of adventure you throw at it."
> _
> 
> The Atlantic Ocean then replied: "Oh yeah?":laugher


Make that, the graveyard of the Atlantic replied !! Last I recall, there are over 2,000 known wrecks off Hatteres, earning it's name, and Gunboat hasn't engineered any guarantees.


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## Group9

Multihullgirl said:


> Appropriate for the SA thread, and for this one:
> " pretty pathetic display of a bunch of computer jockeys criticizing people who are actually doing something pretty cool - in the real world." --us7070


More like speculating on what went wrong. (And, I would propose that anytime you have to abandon a brand new million dollar plus yacht, something went wrong).

And, learning from others' mistakes, can prevent one from having to learn the same lesson from making their own mistakes.


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## MarkofSeaLife

Minnewaska said:


> Make that, the graveyard of the Atlantic replied !! Last I recall, there are over 2,000 known wrecks off Hatteres, earning it's name, and Gunboat hasn't engineered any guarantees.


The circle of wrecks from Cape Lookout Shoals to Frying Pan Shoals is extroadinary.
I had not intended to come in at Beaufort NC but the weather was changing so needed to bail out of my Bahamas to NYC passage. So there I was in the middle of the night hauling ass into that big bay that goes from Beaufort to Cape Fear looking at the wrecks on the chart wondering how they could be in such a complete semi-circle and how densly, but evenly, they were packed.

I realised that them thar waters must be a tad difficult in bad weather.

There are few waters in the world as bad: Cape Aguhlas crossing the current, Bass Strait, continental shelf into the English Chanel at the top of Biscay, Cape Horn, Alaska in crab country. Thats about all of them in the whole world... So why do imbeciles keep sailing Hatteras wind against current?????


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## chall030303

Tweet from owners on 1/29 says:

@Gunboat Rainmaker sailing 1500 miles @ExTechChallenge. See you soon.
(

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/560816269159858176)

Seems to refer to: EXTREME TECH CHALLENGE (Feb 6 at Necker Island in the BVI)


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## MarkofSeaLife

chall030303 said:


> Tweet from owners on 1/29 says:
> 
> @Gunboat Rainmaker sailing 1500 miles @ExTechChallenge. See you soon.
> (
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/560816269159858176)
> 
> Seems to refer to: EXTREME TECH CHALLENGE (Feb 6 at Necker Island in the BVI)


Well spotted!

I had been told theres 8 Gunboat 66s doning the BSIs then St Martin so I wondered if Rainmaker was in that.

Note that fateful word "Extreme". That should be banned from sailing. To get from Cape Hatteras in 8 days is extreme sailing in itself... As has been discovered. They couldnt slow down or divert or they'd be late for their extreme challange. Lol. Well, funny if it wasnt so pathetic


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## chall03

Multihullgirl said:


> Appropriate for the SA thread, and for this one:
> " pretty pathetic display of a bunch of computer jockeys criticizing people who are actually doing something pretty cool - in the real world." --us7070


So the circumnavigator in this thread, the many cruisers( Im currently typing this in the cockpit after having a moonlit swim in warm water in an quiet little bay) the experienced delivery skipper, those local who know these waters are 'computer jockeys' not living in the real world presumably?

I actually don't see much criticism here, so far on this thread I have seen fairly careful and appropriate discussion of a maritime incident involving a unique vessel in trying conditions which is of great educational benefit to those of us 'doing something cool in the real world' all the while acknowledging the difficulty the crew would of faced making decisions 'on the spot" rather than on the internet.

If what is being said on SA differs well that is for those that care to play over there, and should be left there.


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## chall03

chall030303 said:


> Tweet from owners on 1/29 says:
> 
> @Gunboat Rainmaker sailing 1500 miles @ExTechChallenge. See you soon.
> (
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/560816269159858176)
> 
> Seems to refer to: EXTREME TECH CHALLENGE (Feb 6 at Necker Island in the BVI)


Hey dude. Nice screen name.


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## smackdaddy

chall03 said:


> Hey dude. Nice screen name.


I thought it was a bit derivative.


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## Minnewaska

chall03 said:


> Hey dude. Nice screen name.


We should be able to trademark. 

More than once, I've received a grenade over the wall and wondered what in the world the poster was talking about, only to find out they were reacting to a post from another minne....something.

In fact, whenever anyone says I'm wrong, I just assume they don't mean me.


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## Maine Sail

I was lucky enough to spend perhaps an hour and a half on-board Rainmaker at the Newport show, after hours, talking with Chris and looking at the construction, systems etc. with the full ability to really inspect her without boat show lookers on-board.. 

I was of course most interested in the electrical systems but the rigging and automation was also very interesting. Like any brand new high tech vessel she had her bugs and was working through them.. 

The Lithium battery bank had already caused one alternator fire (port engine) and when I inspected the replacement I was shocked to see no alternator temp sensor!!!  

I suggested to Chris (captain) that he should talk to Gunboat/Mastervolt and be sure to install an alternator temp sensor or he was in for a repeat fire. 

He seemed quite competent and really knew the systems quite well. Sometimes little details the owner or builder insist on simply cause implementation or execution issues. For example the custom made solar panels are all black (even between the cells, as opposed to white) and glued directly to the roof structure. The heat gets intense, with no way to cool, and small areas of the panels were already blistering / delaminating because there was / is no good way to dissipate the heat. These are typical growing pains on a high tech vessel and I am sure there were more. Sad that perhaps one of these little growing pain bugs led to the rig failing. 

I must say that the Hall Spars rig was damn impressive and the fit and finish was some of the best carbon work I have seen but like anything, it can fail....


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## krisscross

Maine Sail said:


> I must say that the Hall Spars rig was damn impressive and the fit and finish was some of the best carbon work I have seen but like anything, it can fail....


Was that mast unstayed? For some reason I have a fear of unstayed carbon masts, going back to using them on windsurfing boards and seeing them break under heavy load. Not often, but not uncommon either.


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## Maine Sail

krisscross said:


> Was that mast unstayed? For some reason I have a fear of unstayed carbon masts, going back to using them on windsurfing boards and seeing them break under heavy load. Not often, but not uncommon either.


No it was stayed.....


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## Minnesail

Minnewaska said:


> We should be able to trademark.
> 
> More than once, I've received a grenade over the wall and wondered what in the world the poster was talking about, only to find out they were reacting to a post from another minne....something.
> 
> In fact, whenever anyone says I'm wrong, I just assume they don't mean me.


Yeah.... My apologies. I wish I would have lurked here a bit longer before I signed up and chose a screen name. Here I am, a landlocked n00b, getting mixed up with two of the most experienced sailors and prolific posters on the site.

But I live in the Minnehaha neighborhood in the city of Minneapolis in the state of Minnesota, so it just seemed natural for me to use the prefix Minne which is Ojibwe for water.

I'm not much of a troublemaker (mostly), so I hope I haven't caused too many grenades 

Anyway, back to abandoned boats.


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## mbianka

Anyone have an update on the Gunboat Rainmaker? Is it still out there floating about? Just want to know if I should keep my eyes open should it ride the gulf stream and end up in the local waters. Salvage fee might pay an occasional meal ashore when cruising.


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## RTB

No news yet. maybe the sneaky GB folks recovered it, but aren't saying? 

Ralph


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## JonEisberg

mbianka said:


> Anyone have an update on the Gunboat Rainmaker? Is it still out there floating about? Just want to know if I should keep my eyes open should it ride the gulf stream and end up in the local waters. Salvage fee might pay an occasional meal ashore when cruising.


My guess is if that boat is ever seen again, it will be purely by accident...


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## miatapaul

JonEisberg said:


> My guess is if that boat is ever seen again, it will be purely by accident...


Why not? It is still worth a lot of money so I would be surprised if it is not salvaged, taken back to Gunboat and reworked.


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## JonEisberg

miatapaul said:


> Why not? It is still worth a lot of money so I would be surprised if it is not salvaged, taken back to Gunboat and reworked.


Well, it's a big ocean out there, they'd have to find it, first... ;-)

I think it's quite likely that it's gotten to the point that the cost of finding it, and mounting a salvage effort, could exceed whatever value it might now have...

And, of course, it might be possible that she was more seriously damaged than we've been led to believe... The crew was prepared to take to the life raft when the CG helo arrived, after all...


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## Minnewaska

It seems the CG requires some crews to scuttle their vessel, presumably to avoid a hazard to navigation. Unclear to me whether they are determining it's likelihood to go down on its own.


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## knuterikt

JonEisberg said:


> Well, it's a big ocean out there, they'd have to find it, first... ;-)
> 
> I think it's quite likely that it's gotten to the point that the cost of finding it, and mounting a salvage effort, could exceed whatever value it might now have...
> 
> And, of course, it might be possible that she was more seriously damaged than we've been led to believe... The crew was prepared to take to the life raft when the CG helo arrived, after all...


According to this there should still be two weeks left with tracking.


> The Coastguard helicopter crew put a 30-day tracking beacon aboard
> Read more at The first Gunboat 55 catamaran Rainmaker dismasts and is abandoned in the Atlantic ? 5 crewmembers airlifted - Yachting World


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## JonEisberg

knuterikt said:


> According to this there should still be two weeks left with tracking.
> 
> 
> 
> The Coastguard helicopter crew put a 30-day tracking beacon aboard
> Read more at The first Gunboat 55 catamaran Rainmaker dismasts and is abandoned in the Atlantic ? 5 crewmembers airlifted - Yachting World
Click to expand...

Apparently, that report is in error... According to one of the 'Gunboat Pro skippers' posting over on Sailing Anarchy, that never happened... And although the CG rescue video is not a complete, uninterrupted recording of everything that the rescue swimmer did, there is never any indication he tried to transfer such a device to anyone still aboard the boat...

I raised the question after seeing that reported by YACHTING WORLD, as well, because it was the first time I'd heard of the CG placing a "tracking device" aboard a yacht being abandoned. Rescue swimmers generally have higher priorities then making the transfer of such a device aboard the boat, and in a rescue like the one of RAINMAKER's crew - where the swimmer remains tethered to the wire throughout the operation - of course there is a very good reason why the swimmer will keep a reasonable distance from the boat, and wait for each crewmember make their way to him...

Seems apparent the high tech GOST security/tracking system installed on RAINMAKER that I believe I linked to earlier is no longer operational, either...


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## JonEisberg

Minnewaska said:


> It seems the CG requires some crews to scuttle their vessel, presumably to avoid a hazard to navigation. Unclear to me whether they are determining it's likelihood to go down on its own.


Does anyone know of a particular instance where that has actually been done? I can't recall one, seems the few cases that come to mind - REBEL HEART, Skip Allan's WILDFLOWER, for instance - were scuttled voluntarily...


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## Minnewaska

Could have sworn I had heard of such. Maybe they were all voluntary. At least this one wasn't, albeit not a rescue. Not sure I can tell the difference in concern, however.

U.S. Coast Guard scuttles Japanese tsunami ship | Reuters


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## JonEisberg

For anyone still interested, Part 1 of Mr. Clean's interview with skipper Chris Bailet has been put up over on SAILING ANARCHY...

Not much of anything new, there, I'm hoping Part 2 will be a bit more 'interesting'...

Still mystifying to me, how after sailing more than 24 hours after departing Hatteras Inlet, through an entire evening posting 18-20 knots speeds, and even after throttling back to 7-10 knots the following morning after further reducing sail as the weather deteriorated, they still only managed to get approximately 200 NM down range of their departure point...

And, despite a detailed itemization of the emergency/safety equipment carried aboard, even special mention of special purpose tools to cut free such a high-tech rig in the event of a dismasting, no mention of heavy weather gear such as a para-anchor, or drogue... However, perhaps there will be more detail to come about that in the next installment...

post mortem | Sailing Anarchy


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## souljour2000

Inquiring minds want to know..keep on the trail Jon...I read that pt 1 article and the fact they made so little actual distance escaped me..interesting.... I wonder how much farther they should they have been according to their logs...


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## JonEisberg

Part 2 of the interview is up...

the loss of the rainmaker, part 2 | Sailing Anarchy

Broken glass mixed with hydraulic fluid, who could ever possibly imagine something like _THAT_ happening aboard this High Latitude Voyager, eh?


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## Mabinogion

Have I missed the odd real question somewher e.g. "WTF prompted you to set sail at this time of the year with that forecast in that area?" Or maybe "With the benefit of hindsight, do you think it was a wise decision to put to sea when maybe a delay would have been more seamanlike?"
Others have already queried this and also the auto overide apparently not working.
On a seperate issue, how on earth would you cope with a wheelhouse 'window' getting stove in, the surface area looking at the photo is huge if hit by a volume of green sea let alone part of the rig. Never mind those at the aft part of the wheelhouse, those to port and starboard of the for'ad part of the wheelhouse are immense by any standards.

Edit: Wanted to make sure I wasn't being unfair so looked up the Gunboat hype;
"Speed = Storm Avoidance
The ultimate safety feature is pure speed. Sail around storms. If a storm is unavoidable safety is derived from the ability to surf sideways. With dagger boards up, the round bottom hulls will skate sideways along waves, and the long high bows offer tremendous reserve buoyancy. We believe mega catamarans are the safest platform for surviving the worst weather.

Ultimate Buouyancy
Six reinforced watertight bulkheads and a carbon reinforced underbody make flooding very unlikely. The composite's foam core acts as the ultimate reserve buoyancy."


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## smackdaddy

Mabinogion said:


> "Speed = Storm Avoidance
> The ultimate safety feature is pure speed. Sail around storms. If a storm is unavoidable safety is derived from the ability to surf sideways. With dagger boards up, the round bottom hulls will skate sideways along waves, and the long high bows offer tremendous reserve buoyancy. We believe mega catamarans are the safest platform for surviving the worst weather.


This is the part that has everyone scratching their heads. How did they make so little VMG in that thing before the dismasting. And the interview hasn't really answered that yet.

Sounds like it's down to the "White Squall" defense.


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## Mabinogion

looks like all hell broken out on SA forum with toys out of the pram, sponsorship influence alluded to and hypocrisy of people shouting down posters for speculating and then doing the same themselves. Far too much to post but some of it is in paragraphs of block letters from their editorial types. Someone upset by the look of it.

Anyway, back to reality, have a look at the photo that was posted, it raises many questions about why they should or should not have had to abandon. Big windows missing just one issue.

Sure has stirred up much hullabaloo over there. All hell likely to break out when that Vestas grounding report hits at this rate, whew!


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## Minnesail

Can you give a quick executive summary?

I don't think I have the stomach or time to wade through a thousand pages of SA about this...


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## Mabinogion

Minnesail said:


> Can you give a quick executive summary?
> 
> I don't think I have the stomach or time to wade through a thousand pages of SA about this...


Don't need to, this has upset those who must not be upset to such an extent that it was a main page lead today, it's not neccesary to trawl the threads just call up their main page. Try to read it all with an open mind, especially given the whole picture!

Have fun.

Should have said you may want to consider following one of the links just to see the depth of feeling, but the headline article is sufficient and lengthy.
Yes, click the link at the end of the article "argue about it here" that's where the photograph can be found, well worth a look at # 1617.


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## Stumble

Minnesail said:


> Can you give a quick executive summary?
> 
> I don't think I have the stomach or time to wade through a thousand pages of SA about this...


Generally....

1) Rainmaker set off planning to ride the back side of a fast moving storm system to the islands

2) The mast exploded about a day out while sailing with a tripple reefed main and storm jib. No one really knows why. Best guess is that a microburst combined with inadequate rig support just below the spreaders caused the failure. But at this point no one knows.

3) the weather forcast degraded quickly, and went from sail able 35kn forcast to survival 75+ in forcast

4) one of the most experienced Gunboat captains around made the call to abandon ship. For a number of reasons, but tied to the fact that Rainmaker was just at the limit of helicopter range, and was drifting further out.

5) speculation hit the fan, and a lot of people are questioning abandoning the boat. Most of the principals are lawyered up (2.5 million dollar insurance claim remember).


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## Minnesail

Thanks for the re-cap. I found the interview link on the front page of SA. I knew the briefest outline of the Rainmaker saga, but it was informative to read the interview.

I was sort of wondering what people were getting so crazy about on SA. They appear to up to 1720 posts already. Are they mostly critical of Gunboat? Critical of the captain?


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## Stumble

Minnesail said:


> Thanks for the re-cap. I found the interview link on the front page of SA. I knew the briefest outline of the Rainmaker saga, but it was informative to read the interview.
> 
> I was sort of wondering what people were getting so crazy about on SA. They appear to up to 1720 posts already. Are they mostly critical of Gunboat? Critical of the captain?


It's SA they are critical of everything. Mostly conspiracy theories about everyone keeping quiet, GB for the design (lots of specifics), the captain for; abandoning when he did being too young, being too inexperienced, leaving in the first place, other nonsense , hall spar for the mast design, weather forecasters for getting it wrong, the owner for being rich, hiring a captain, not hiring a better captain, mandating departure, calling for rescue...

In other words it's SA being SA. Some really good experienced sailors, mixed in with a lot of stupid junk.

My personal take for what it's worth:
1) someone messed up the rig design. Whoever did the design made a mistake (could be GB or Hall). 
2) the forcast was fine for the boat. Maybe more than ideal, but certainly within the design window. 
3) the captain is young (28) but very experienced (>30,000nm at sea just on Gunboats). He has an impeccable reputation and I don't question what he did. 
4) the owner did it right. He is inexperienced and hired three top flight delivery crew to run the boat while he and his son were along for the ride.
5) I don't know enough about weather forcasting to comment. My guess is they made the best call possible, but we're wrong about how the system developed. 
6) once the mast was down, both engines were knocked out, and they had unknown damage to the hulls from colliding with a ship, abandoning ahead of the incoming storm was the right call. They might have been able to save the ship, but at the real risk to life. They were drifting quickly away from rescue, had no manuverability, and no guarantee they could jury rig something. Saving lives is more important than saving the boat. Had they been 1000nm out things would have been different.

Everyone is shutting up because the attorneys are telling them too. While the insurance company tries to figure out who to sue to recover part of the $2.5 million dollar claim they are going to have pay.

Finally there seem to be some legitimate critiques of the design. But other than the rig design none of them are really that important to what happened.

1) the type of glass in the bridgedeck should have been laminated. If so it would have stayed in place better, and not left shards all over the deck. 
2) the door to the hull warped when the mast fell, making it impossible to close off the hull. This needs to be adressed. 
3) the bridgedeck mullion bent when the mast came down. Reinforcing this seems to be needed. 
4) engine acces is thru a deck hatch in the rear of the boat. This makes it almost impossible to access the engine in seas. It is a trade off that a lot of designers are using however. Since otherwise you can't have an installed bed in the aft part of the hull

I am sure there are others but this is the main bit.


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## Minnesail

Perfect, that saved me reading 1720 posts of SA crazy. (And having to rapidly scroll past NSFW pics.)


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## MedSailor

Minnesail said:


> Perfect, that saved me reading 1720 posts of SA crazy. (And having to rapidly scroll past NSFW pics.)


Nearly 2K posts may sound like a lot to read but most are 2 lines or less. 

MedSailor


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## miatapaul

The one statement that really bothered me, may have been here or there I don't remember. Was the statement that Gunboat does not design the mast, and rigging that they farm that out, so that was not there fault. But to me it seems they should design it (I am sure they do) and they have it built to there specs, but it appears if you say anything bad about Gunboat, you are an arm chair captain, and know nothing. To me it sounds like the rig and supporting deck was under built, as the conditions were bad but not "that" bad. At least not bad enough that it should have brought down a mast with a storm sail and triple reef. And what about the auto dump, did that fail? Shouldn't that wonder of electronics have saved the rig? 

They did seem to have a bit of a caviler attitude about the weather. I know it is partly smaller mono-hull mindset, but a sleigh ride down with a fast moving front does not seem to be a good idea. I think the real issue is the schedule they were on. They have not mentioned it, but the reason for that is obvious. And sure they may have said it did not play a roll, but I am sure it really did. 

And as to the decision to abandon ship, they made the right choice. If they had attempted to save the boat, it could have become ugly really fast. And sure the decision was easier because they had insurance, but there is no need to risk life for material goods. Seems there needs to be some study of how to best pull along side a "small" boat by a freighter. this sounded a lot like the situation with Triumph where she suffered damage from the boat trying to save them hit them.


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## Stumble

Miata,

1) I am not sure who had design responsability for the mast. If it was an in house design then clearly it was a GB fault, but I don't think it is unreasonable to farm this out to Hall Spar. Hall does a number of rig design for a lot of companies, and there is a pretty reasonable argument to let them do it. Unlike GB that may only need a rig designed every few years Hall does it regularly, and MAY have engineers that specialize in designing masts. 

I am sure that if Hall did the design it was with a lot of input from the GB guys, but I don't have a problem if they farmed it out either. The same thing is pretty common for rudders, keels, and even deck layout. There are specialists that work just on a part of a boat, and while I have no problem with keeping it all in house, I think it is reasonable to farm out sections as well. 

2) on leaving in the forcast. As I understand it (and my understanding is shaky) the forcast was for 25-35kn with a storm system with 45kn following a day behind them. The storm was moving at 10-15kn. These are frankly ideal conditions for a large cat. Get in reasonable wind, with plenty of speed to keep in front of the system, and if worst comes to it the forcast wind was well within what the boat should have been up for. 

In retrospect the forcast was wrong and the forcast for the system the next day included wind speeds substantially higher than when they left. Again they would have been able to stay out of the system if the rig didn't fail, but it did. Which in my eyes made the decision to call for help reasonable.


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## JonEisberg

miatapaul said:


> Seems there needs to be some study of how to best pull along side a "small" boat by a freighter. this sounded a lot like the situation with Triumph where she suffered damage from the boat trying to save them hit them.


There is NO good way to bring a sailing yacht alongside a merchant vessel at sea...

RAINMAKER was equipped with a far better 'stepping stone' to effect a transfer than most yachts have, however, ready to go...


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## tempest

Greg or anyone..

If winds are predicted to be 45 kn. ( 51.8 mph) and the storm is moving at 15 kn, (17.2 mph) and you're traveling 10 kn (11.5 mph) are not all those velocities somewhat additive ? 79 mph. + or - depending on angle. ( I think he said 10 degrees abaft the beam.)

Unless, I read the account incorrectly, the winds hadn't clocked to the north yet, they were still SW and they were headed in an easterly direction.


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## JonEisberg

Interesting update on RAINMAKER, according to the chatter over on Sailing Anarchy...

She was spotted a few weeks ago by a merchant vessel, no position given... This is confirmed by Mr Clean from SA. Photos were taken, and according to one who claims to have seen them, the coachroof/greenhouse/salon/whatever it's called was _gone..._

Then, just the other day, another poster claims to have heard from someone in the insurance business that she has actually been towed into port by a fishing trawler, which for whatever reason declined a claim of salvage... No location was given, nor is there any independent confirmation of this account...

Interesting, to say the least...


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## sailingmum

what were they doing out there ? 
Gunboat's own promotional material says speed=safety. Megacats safest place in a storm... 
But what were they doing out there ? Well, they had someplace to be. 
Throw in arrogance, false faith in a $2.5 million 'platform', lack of respect for the sea and there you have it. 
Thank God no one died, including the courageous well trained USCG rescue team who returned on fumes from their 200 nm return.


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## mbianka

Interesting indeed. Would love to find out where the Gunboat had drifted too after they crew had abandoned it. Would be great to see some pictures of the boat after it was towed back. Boats often seem tougher than the crews that sail them.



JonEisberg said:


> Interesting update on RAINMAKER, according to the chatter over on Sailing Anarchy...
> 
> She was spotted a few weeks ago by a merchant vessel, no position given... This is confirmed by Mr Clean from SA. Photos were taken, and according to one who claims to have seen them, the coachroof/greenhouse/salon/whatever it's called was _gone..._
> 
> Then, just the other day, another poster claims to have heard from someone in the insurance business that she has actually been towed into port by a fishing trawler, which for whatever reason declined a claim of salvage... No location was given, nor is there any independent confirmation of this account...
> 
> Interesting, to say the least...


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## jzk

It seems rainmaker was sighted:

Longitude 35.36.282 N Latidude 062.17.187 W


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## UnionPacific

jzk said:


> It seems rainmaker was sighted:
> 
> Longitude 35.36.282 N Latidude 062.17.187 W


you can certainly see the weakness.


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## jzk

UnionPacific said:


> you can certainly see the weakness.


Where is the weakness?


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## UnionPacific

jzk said:


> Where is the weakness?


The greenhouse has been removed, while the hull is in good shape.


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## jzk

UnionPacific said:


> The greenhouse has been removed, while the hull is in good shape.


Yes, the greenhouse is completely gone. But to be fair, it was always really a hybrid hardtop dodger. The aft section was closed off with only isenglass and canvass.

All in all, that she is floating exactly like this is a testament to her build.


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## UnionPacific

jzk said:


> Yes, the greenhouse is completely gone. But to be fair, it was always really a hybrid hardtop dodger. The aft section was closed off with only isenglass and canvass.
> 
> All in all, that she is floating exactly like this is a testament to her build.


Thats not what the video shows. It shows hard windows, and fiberglass top and sides. I would love to have that hull. Great project boat that would come out great with a bit of hard work.


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## Minnewaska

Does she have watertight lockers below? It appears the hatches are gone and the deck penetrations to access the hulls are obviously open. She's sitting so low in the water, it a wonder she hasn't gone down yet. She really needs to be scuttled or towed in. 

I'm not particularly impressed by her hull still being afloat and upright. For all we know, she's flipped a dozen times already. I doubt there is salvage value, as the hull is likely well more stressed than it appears from an overhead photo.


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## UnionPacific

nothing I would want to hit at 8kts, but I think we would be ok. We have hit other things at 8kts before, and suffered no damage. Now a new, light boat like a french cat or a lightweight boat would be destroyed.


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## smurphny

Such a shame that a beautiful piece of craftsmanship and engineering was destroyed by what appeared to be hubris and ignorance. She must have plenty of encapsulated floatation or would have gone down long ago and will also likely float as a hazard until grounding somewhere. It would be unlikely that she's not been structurally damaged after being tossed about for so long but who knows, she may float again.


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## UnionPacific

engineering.... a bit I guess, but not enough. Read the report of the sinking if you have not already. This is another example in my book of insure and call the coastie when the wind hits 5kts.


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## smurphny

UnionPacific said:


> engineering.... a bit I guess, but not enough. Read the report of the sinking if you have not already. This is another example in my book of insure and call the coastie when the wind hits 5kts.


Yeah, we've been through that already if you read the whole thread.


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## UnionPacific

smurphny said:


> Yeah, we've been through that already if you read the whole thread.


I read no less then 8 threads on this subject. The boat used to be my second favorite cat... after this one...


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## smurphny

UnionPacific said:


> I read no less then 8 threads on this subject. The boat used to be my second favorite cat... after this one...


Just went through this one to look for my posts but I guess they were deleted when I unsubscribed a couple of days ago to clear the folder???

Just saying, looking at it from a builder's and tradesman's point of view, it has to be very disheartening to watch as fools wreck something into which you've put so much effort.


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## UnionPacific

I just do not see composites of light weight be be great for an ocean voyage. 
I know they are strong, but when poorly designed, they can be fragile, thats never a good thing when you hit a rock at 18kts. If I were to have a cat, it would be alloy. So can the person who built this, sit back and say, "I did a good job" I do not know. You would struggle to convince me the boat was good to begin with. I am sure the company is very taken aback. First nail in the coffin? time will tell. Not sure how well alpha is doing either....


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## jzk

UnionPacific said:


> Thats not what the video shows. It shows hard windows, and fiberglass top and sides. I would love to have that hull. Great project boat that would come out great with a bit of hard work.


Yes, but isenglass and canvas aft.


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## smurphny

UnionPacific said:


> I just do not see composites of light weight be be great for an ocean voyage.
> I know they are strong, but when poorly designed, they can be fragile, thats never a good thing when you hit a rock at 18kts. If I were to have a cat, it would be alloy. So can the person who built this, sit back and say, "I did a good job" I do not know. You would struggle to convince me the boat was good to begin with. I am sure the company is very taken aback. First nail in the coffin? time will tell. Not sure how well alpha is doing either....


These are surely at the sharp edge of the technology. That's always somewhat experimental and risky in nature, but the guys who put their effort into building her and the marine architect were surely proud as she was launched. I'd like to hear their thoughts about the loss but they are undoubtedly not fit for public consumption. Only time will tell if these boats are durable over the long term. I personally think thicker is better and prefer mono-hulls but my boat has not been anywhere near state of the art for around fifty years


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## Maine Sail

UnionPacific said:


> Thats not what the video shows. It shows hard windows, and fiberglass top and sides. I would love to have that hull. Great project boat that would come out great with a bit of hard work.


The top was closer to a hard top dodger with aluminum framed windows forward and EZ2CY/Stamoid curtains aft. It was not a part of the boat, as in being glassed on during layup like many production cats.. It was an "appendage" installed after the hull layup.. It was supported by stainless pipe aft and the aluminum window frames forward with only a couple of composite supports. I spent considerable time on-board this vessel. My friend Seth did the canvas work and my friend Bruce did the solar so I see little surprise that the top appendage came off.

The hull has apparently _survived_ nearly everything being ripped clean from it. The North Atlantic can be pretty brutal..........:eek


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## hellsop

Minnewaska said:


> I'm not particularly impressed by her hull still being afloat and upright. For all we know, she's flipped a dozen times already. I doubt there is salvage value, as the hull is likely well more stressed than it appears from an overhead photo.


VERY VERY unlikely to have flipped even once since becoming awash. You'd have to have a breaking wave 50' high to do it. All that water in the hulls IS HEAVY. It's not coming out of the wash to let you turn it over without a LOT. Once demasted, there isn't even a lever to get one hull higher than another and anything less than 90-degrees would just come back down same-side-up.


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## vagabundoII

Ha, can't believe it's been spotted! Il be sailing past there soon as well.


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