# I'd like to hear from Catalina owners (42mkii esp)



## RandyBC (Mar 2, 2008)

Hello all....I would like your input on a few issues that I have with regard to a possible purchase of this boat.

First of all, we are a family of 6 with kids ranging from 3 -11. We live on the BC coast and want a boat for mostly day cruising in the Strait of Georgia but also for some overnight trips to local anchorages. I'm looking at a 2007 C42 MKii that was a demo boat for $230K US (there are a few extras such as autohelm, spinnaker). This is likely the upper limit of my budget. I know that this is a large boat for somebody who hasn't owned a full sized boat before but I have a friend who is CYA instructor who will spend time giving private lessons until I can handle the boat competently. I would also be choosy about the weather I chose to sail in, erring on the conservative side.

My big concern, which I would like feedback on, is the reputation of the boat. I've been a little scared by what I have read on this forum regarding Catalina's rep as a boat builder. If one were to believe some of the posters that lurk around here, Catalinas are essentially cardboard wrapped in fiberglass held together with bubblegum and baling wire. There are a few that seem to troll threads like this with the personal mission to make sure that nobody ever makes the collossal mistake of buying a Catalina. I have a hard time believing that the C42 with such a long production run is simply a "marina queen" or a lemon.

The purpose of this thread is not to rehash a barrage of trash talk against Catalina owners. Please hold the insulting replies. What I want is the hear from those who own or have owned recently, either a C42 or other comparable Catalina. Do you find that the boats are built cheaply? Are things falling off that shouldn't? Was your money well spent? You get the gist of what I'm getting at. I would appreciate your comments.

Also, with regards to ocean worthiness, what exactly would be the shortcomings of a production boat like the C42? Is the mast not strong enough? Is the hull not rigid enough? Is the keel going to fall off. Is the plug going to come out of the bottom of the boat which will then slowly fill with water (kidding)? What is it? What is going to fail in a boat like that in 45 knots of wind?

One other thing, the boat is a dealer demo since May last year in fresh water. I've been assured that the boat has not touched bottom. How many people would get a survery of a boat like that and how many would think that money is better spent elsewhere. Any thoughts on the price?

Thanks for those who take the time to reply
Randy


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Randy...Given your request, I will not comment specifically on a C42 other than to say that I like them and have owned 2 smaller Catalinas in the past and they are both remembered fondly. 
I really wanted to comment on your finding lots of "digs" against the Catalina brand here since you are new. One of the other moderators here, Cruisingdad, owns and is the technical editor for the Catlina400. As a result, his choice of boat brand comes in for a good bit of friendly joking and ribbing that is actually without any intent to malign the brand. Our intent is simply to malign the moderator!  
The Catalina line is built as moderately priced, coastal cruising quality boats and that is your intended use. They have been successful for decades and also have an excellent reputation for listening to and supporting their owners. Each specific model has its' own plusses and minuses but I will leave that to others.


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## RandyBC (Mar 2, 2008)

Camaraderie.....Thanks for the reply...thanks for cluing me in on the dynamics that exist as well. It's good to know that perhaps some of the disparaging comments are meant tounge in cheek. Some postings don't come across that way though. Once again I haven't been here long enough to know who is serious and who isn't. One thing is for sure, nobody likes to hear the quarter million dollar boat is a POS.
I did PM Cruisingdad about the boat and am still waiting for his reply.
Thanks again
Randy


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Randy,

I don't have any first hand experience with this model Catalina, but I think the 42 would be almost ideal for the kind of sailing you describe with the size family you have. It's size will be a handful for someone that is inexperienced, but if you truly will have the benefit of an instructor for as long as it takes you to build the necessary experience, then you should be fine (here I am assuming you DO have some sailing experience already and are not a COMPLETE novice).

Truth be told, this is one of the models my wife and I are considering if we move up to a larger boat for our family of 5 (with frequent guests). So I have been studying it a fair bit. I prefer the appearance of the earlier Mark I version, and wish the rig was less dated, but all in all it appears to represent a good value for family coastal sailing. However, I would not choose this boat if I had plans to cross oceans or make extended off-shore passages.

Have you read any of Jack Horner's reviews of the Catalina 42? Horner is a well respected surveyor from the Chesapeake region, and writes used boat reviews for both Boat/US Magazine and Spinsheet magazine (a local Chesapeake sailing rag), based on his experience surveying. He also has a design background, and so I find his reviews to be fairly insightful. Here are a couple of his reviews (and you will learn in the second of these two that Horner chose a C42 for his own boat):

BoatUS.com: Boat Reviews by Jack Hornor, N.A. - Catalina 42 (Edit: I've tried several times to fix this link but it doesn't seem to work. You can google Boat/U.S./Horner/Catalina42 and get the link.)

Used Boat Review

The C42 owner's association is a good resource too, if you haven't visited there:

Catalina 42 International Association

Welcome to SailNet and good luck to you!


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Randy, I was not familiar with the Catalina boats until last year. And I admit I like them and find them to be very good boats. I am sure that with a few mods you could actually sail around the World in them...altough their niche seems to be coastal navigation, and coastal, you can almost go around the world too, so that's not a limitation.

I have a friend Tommyt that has one and he was very enlightening in explaining the boat. I was impressed.

Last year, I saw 2 of the models in detail on a trip to Boston, and one 400 like CD's in St. Thomas. The ones I saw in Boston were side by side (I'm sorry I can't rememebr the sizes at this moment), and I saw them inside out. 

I like them a lot and think they are pretty good boats, maybe a bit better that Beneteau, with a lot of space and clever solutions.

I believe that in a boat this price, considered relatively cheap for what it is, some corners have to be cut, so the price remains accessible to the customers Catalina is procuring...as a consequence, when corners are cut, things could be improved or better, and that is where the problem is...not in the sailing characteristics and not in the overall construction quality...the major issues I read are about equipment used, either auxiliar or critical, and its quality...and thoise, my friend, you can fix, improve and optimize in your own time, as expereince shown to you and learnt by you so dictates. And to me, its part of the fun to own a sailboat...the stuff you do to improve it...

You like the boat?? BUY IT..it's a good boat...this coming from a person that hates old stuff...

I would rather buy a new (or recent) Catalina now, that a 1865 Valiant or a 1342 Caliber or a 1235 Passport, or some older 34 feet thick hull boat, no matter how good they were, when Elvis was still alive...(I buy a boat to sail around not to smash against Volvos)....a trend I see seems the fashion around here in sailnet....its classy to own old boats....(excluded those that bought for economical reasons or heart reasons)....

You will have a lot of enjoymnt of a brand new catalina, even if you need to improve some things, which is a lot better than being the work slave of an old crappy boat, and having to repair everything every week, just because when Colombo was sailing they were tough boats...


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I live in and near the area you want to sail said boat. I would have NO issues sailing said boat around here. 

There are some brands that are what they are, ie lower end - not sure if that is the right wording..... but will use it none the less, they are made for coastal cruising, as such, do not need to be as strong as one that will cross oceans and sail thru a hurricane. Hunters, Jeanneaus - which I own, Beneteaus as examples, all have designs to this spec. Nothing wrong with that spec. others, need some kind of tank if you will to sail in our area of the NW US/SW Canada waters of Puget sound, straights of Georgia and the san juans etc. 

There are many folks with Catalina's as small as the 22's sailng around here, and luving it! 

So disregard the comments re that boat. If you like it, BUT IT! and don't look back!

marty


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Having looked at these boats extensively and talked with owners and dealers, they are the perfect boat for what you want to do. Personally, I prefer the 400, but the 42 is very nice too. Frank Butler has put a lot of time and effort into giving his target clients what they want, and he does a great job at it. Catalinas hold their value very well, and no, things don't just fall off of them. If you haven't already, go look at some that are 5-10 years old, then go look at the competition, namely hunter and beneteau, in the same age range, and compare. As for the Catalina bashing here, it is, as you say, tongue-in-cheek.


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## RandyBC (Mar 2, 2008)

Thanks guys for your very thoughtful replies 
John..I have read that review before. I didn't know the author was a boat surveyor. That certainly adds a bit of credibility to the article. Come to think of it I really haven't read any bad reviews other than on forums such as this. Usually however, I take anything a magazine writes with a grain of salt because most of the time they truly cant be completely impartial because of the advertising revenue etc. Also, I'm not a complete novice sailor. I've sailed a Hobie for many years so I understand very well the theory of sailing. I know there is no comparison to the two craft, but nonetheless the general principles remain the same. I took my CYA basic certification on a Cat 36mkii. That boat was easier to sail than my Hobie; I didn't have to worry about it capsizing. The thing that worries me most is docking and anchoring which I think is true for most sailors. There are local day long clinics offered by one of the chartering companies to get skills in these areas that I will definitely be taking. My original sailing instructor has said he would sail with me on the boat until I'm up to speed. I do have a lot of common sense so I think things will end up well.
Giulietta.....greetings all the way to Portugal! Wow it must be nice living around such beautiful water. Thank you for your insight into the Catalina and your thoughts on the matter. I totally agree with you that I would rather have a new(er) boat than something that needs to be slaved on. I want to be sailing, not working (other than keeping the boat in Bristol shape).
Marty....Thanks as well for your thoughts of that boat in the Pacific NW sailing area. It is comforting to know that the boat will stand up well there.
Thanks again for your replies, I would welcome any other insight people may have..
Regards
Randy


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## RandyBC (Mar 2, 2008)

Bestfriend...thanks for your insight. I like the 400 as well. The demo 42 that we are looking at only has two cabins which is a bit of an issue with 4 kids. I'm much more partial to the layout of the 2 cabin model over the 3 cabin however. I like the galley tucked away in the back with a large settee area.  In the 3 cabin model the galley is along the side...it seems cramped to me. For us the improved living area for the awake hours offsets the disadvantage of having to make the settee into a bed for 2 kids during the sleeping hours. I like the 3 cabin layout of the 400 better than the 42 in this regard. Unfortunately the same deal doesn't exist on that boat in our area or I would seriously consider it. 
I would be interested in what it is about the 400 that you like better.
Randy


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Randy,

One of my hesitations about this model is the choice of keels. The standard draft (fin, 6'8") is too deep for my sailing grounds (Chesapeake), yet I view the shoal draft (wing, 4' 10") too shallow for a boat of this size. It also leaves the rudder more exposed to grounding than I care for. Too bad they don't offer a 5'6-8" long fin intermediate draft! 

Hopefully the particular boat you are looking at is the standard draft version. You shouldn't need shoal draft for the PacNW, so this concern that I've raised isn't really applicable in your case. 

Also, presumably you are looking at a tri-cabin version, which is what you'll want with that many kids aboard. If it is the two-cabin version, I would hold off and wait for a tri-cabin. Trust me on this.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Randy - Welcome to Sailnet... btw since when is Hinton on the BC coast?????

I too think that that boat would be ideal for what you have in mind. I know of a few 42s that have done offshore trips as well.

I've always liked the layout of that model (although I guess there are a couple of options depending on the year) and if, as JRP suggests, this one is the deep draft model it would be great for our area. We had a 7' draft 40 footer here for years and there were only a very few bays where the draft was an issue.

Anyhow, welcome, keep an eye out for the Sailnet burgee... maybe we can chat someday.


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## Slipkiller2 (Aug 24, 2007)

Randy,

We started with a Catalina 22, moved to up to a 25 that we had for over 20 years, then on to a 36 and now have a Catalina 40 MKII. As you can see, we’ve been very happy with them. Of the few issues that I have had with the boats, nothing major, I can tell you that the people at Catalina have been very helpful and value their customers. 

Before we bought the 36, we thought that we should expand our horizon and look at other boats, Hunters, Beneteaus, etc. However, we came back to the Catalina’s as we felt that for the money they were the best on the market. With the 25, 36 and now the 400, we have cruised and raced offshore along the Texas coast without any issues.

After our two daughters and now a couple of grand kids, we’ve really enjoyed our time on the boats with them and hope you have the same great experience.


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## RandyBC (Mar 2, 2008)

Faster....Hinton is going to be on the coast when the "big one" hits.  Seriously though, we have an acreage in Qualicum that acts as a summer place. We spent our first summer out there last year. There were many hours spent on land looking at the boats wishing the opposite was true. I feel like finally I'm getting close to living a dream. What does the sailnet burgee look like? I'll definitely keep an eye out. It is always great to meet up with people of common interest.
SK2....thanks for your encouraging words and input.
John....the boat I am dealing on is a deep fin keel in 2 cabin layout. Unfortunately I don't have the option of 2 or 3 cabin since this particular boat is as it is. I think the deal on this boat is particularly good. Since the sleeping quarters would really only be used for sleeping, what problems do you foresee in a 2 cabin layout? I know that it is inconvenient to make the settee into a bed at night but is that not offset by having a better layout in the rest of the boat? It's a matter of weighing pros and cons. The way I look at it, if somebody wants alone time during the day there would always be a choice of 2 cabins for escape. I would certainly rethink this if we were going to do some prolonged passagemaking, but thats not the plan in this case. Most of the use will be daysailing, and during that time the staterooms would be virtually unused. Thats been my thinking on the matter but I would be very interested in your view if you think that it is misguided. Anyone else have an opinion? 
Randy


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

I have not seen the 42 in the 3 cabin arrangement. I like the 400 for several reasons. Twin wheels and a more open cockpit, nav station closer to the companionway, the galley feels bigger, straight settees to lay on, the aft cabin. On the 42, I don't like the cramped back area of the galley. Just personal stuff. I think the 400 is a bit faster too.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Randy,

Glad to hear it's the fin keel. That's good.

I am making a strong recommendation for the 3-cabin version based on over a decade of coastal sailing experience with 3 kids (plus guests) in the same age range as your 4 kids. If you are only going to "daysail" then my recommendation is not really applicable, but I would also suggest that you don't need or want the C42 if that's all you plan to do. A much smaller boat would be more than adequate for daysailing. (By daysailing, we usually mean going for a sail on the boat for a relatively short period of time, departing and returning to the same dock, and not sleeping aboard).

Given the spectacular cruising grounds in your area, and your earlier suggestion that you do plan at least some overnighting, my guess is that you will eventually want to venture out for longer periods in this boat. Perhaps a week or two at a stretch? If that may be the case, the ability to allow the kids to head off to their own (even if shared) cabins will be critical to family sanity.

I cannot tell you how "old" it gets to constantly convert the main salon to sleeping arrangements and back to salon every evening and morning. And with the salon doubling as a bedroom, the boat is left without a place for the parents (or just a spouse/guest with insomnia) to relax later in the evening or during early morning hours. Much better with the extra third cabin, so the sleepy heads can go off to their respective corners of the boat, and those with more stamina can enjoy some well deserved peace and quiet.

For coastal sailing, I also prefer the tri-cabin galley ("eat-in kitchen" my wife calls it) and salon table, which is more commodious. A mid-ship galley is not ideal for passagemaking, but for harbour hopping and occasional overnighters it's fine (even preferable).

Don't think you can't find a tri-cabin if it turns out that's what you prefer. The C42 is one of the most common boats in this size range, and there are loads to choose from. It may not be the one being offered to you at this moment, but a dealer/broker will find you the one you want. Don't get pressured into taking it just cause that happens to be what's in inventory at the moment. It would be a different story if the particular model boat you had fallen in love with simply didn't come with the alternative configuration, but that is not the case here: C42 tri-cabins are abundant.

For others interested, and discussion purposes, here is the 2-cabin, followed by the 3 cabin layout:


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

OK

enough of this Catalina love thing...

Let's start bashing it now, ok??

Catalinas suck, and are ugly and sail like a shoe..much better is the 1765 Valiant....


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## max-on (Mar 30, 2004)

Why would you but a "new" catalina? On yachtworld alone there are almost 100 listings for 40-42 ft models for years 2000-2007. Putting aside what I think about catalinas, with many models on the used market to choose from, I would not buy "new".


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi Randy - We have owned a Catalina 380 for 10 years and have been very pleased with her. Presently, she is on the market as we are upgrading to a larger Catalina, either the 400 or the 470. 

We have done extensive coastal cruising on our boat on the East Coast of Australia and have found the 380 to be great on passage and fantastic when we have arrived at our destination. 

I know of an Australian who purchased a Catalina 42 East Coast USA and took two years to sail her back to Sydney Australia via the Pacific Islands. He has nothing but praise for the boats performance !!

As for the cabin configuration below decks that it really a matter of personal choice. Our climate is pretty good out here so we spend nearly every waking hour in the cockpit except if its raining "cats and dogs" or I'm preparing meals etc. If we do have visitors and have to drop the table and use it as a bed, I normally just make the bed every morning so it looks neat and tidy. 

As to your question regarding the survey, for me personally I would still get the vessel surveyed. If any problems arise you can get them attended to at the broker's expense and also you will have the greatest thing of all - peace of mind. 

Good luck with your purchase (whatever it is) and I hope you and your family have heaps of fun.


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## RandyBC (Mar 2, 2008)

John...thanks for your post. I think your points are very reasonable. My main problem with the 3 cabin model in the 42 was that I did not like the galley position; the interior seems a bit cramped to me. I also don't particularly care for the fore head. Giulietta and Bestfriend pointed out the C 400, I must admit I have not seen this model but maybe I should. I like what the 3 cabin plan looks like on that boat. No used ones for sale in the Pacific NW though.
Max-on.....the price of this new boat is not much higher than the used ones for sale around here. I'd sure like to know what it is about Catalina that you don't like. Do you have better recommendations in the $220K price range?
Winchwench....thanks for your input and your well wishes.
Randy


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Have you checked with the dealer about ordering a 400? Looking at that 3 cabin plan, looks nicer than the 42 personally, especially if I looked at it from sailing with my 4 kids. Not that they will be cruising anytime soon, as they are 15, 19 and 22! 

Another boat reasonably priced, Delphia. There is a 40'r in Tacoma for just over 200K. Some older J120's in the 180K range. A lot faster, better built IMHO than a Cat or equal style. There is a 2000 Jeanneau SO40 for about 130. A new Jeanneau SO39i at marine service center in seattle is 215. Not sure what Frazer in Vancouver would want, or if they have one. A bit faster sailing than a Cat of equal size. long with a bit different ambiance interior too. 

Plenty of nice boats in the NW that size that will cruise etc around here, and still not have a lot of work to do to them. You can probably go back up to 5-7 yrs or so. 

marty


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Randy - before you commit to the Catalina 42, I would definately go and have a look at the C400. The C400 is a lot of boat for it's length. I was aboard one recently and was really impressed !!

To me the C42 looks as though its designed for a couple whereas the C400 is more family friendly. 

All boats are a compromise - just figure out what's going to be best for you and the kids.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Regardless of which boat you look at, make sure that it can be setup so that you or your wife can single hand the boat. Even though you'll be cruising and sailing with family, the reality of it is that you will effectively be singlehanding the boat much of the time. I've heard too many horror stories about how one person couldn't manage the boat when something happened to the other and it cost them far too much. Much of the time you're sailing, you or your wife will be singlehanding while the other is down below dealing with the children, cooking in the galley, asleep, etc. 

I'd also recommend keeping or setting aside part of your boat buying budget to refit, upgrade or modify any boat you buy. Unlike a car, most boats aren't ready-to-go out of the box. They will generally need some customization to work for you the way you sail and the way you will use the boat.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

*Production Boats and Catalinas*

Randy,

Sorry for the late reply. I did not get back into the house until 1130pm last night and did not check mesages before this morning. I will try and do a writeup on the boat here, as much as possible. I also sent you my telephone number to discuss in person.

First of all, the *Catalina bashing that you read here is just joking directed at me*. If you find something else that is factual on these boats, I would like to know where and I will engage in the conversation as such. The truth is that I find many people that post negative comments on boats just flat dont know what they are talking about. It is almost like some kind of hidden agenda to justify their purchase of their boat or because they did not know how to maintain their boat and screwed it up or they just like to whine? Kinda screwy to me. I do have a personal prejudice on a particular manufacturer, but you will not see me discuss it on the open net. But let me tell you this, my personal prejudices are based upon first hand, practical experience and not dock-talk or Cruising World*&%!

Here is my general background: I have owned a Catalina 250, 320, lived aboard and cruised a 380 (with wife, kiddo, and 2 dogs), and now own a 400. My dad owns a Tayana 42. I have sailed many other types of boats, both "bluewater" and production. I would not consider myself an expert in ANY boat type, but I feel comfortable enough to give a pretty educated opinion on boats - bluewater and production.

For us Catalina makes the best production boat. My budget did not limit me to a Catalina... but I bought one anyways - 4 times in a row! It has a VERY good owners group and you will become a part of Mainsheet, which is a quarterly magazine with all kinds of technical (and basic sailing) writeups. If you call Catalina, you get a person (typically Warren, whom I know and is a great guy) that KNOWS THEIR STUFF and takes a very personal interst in you and getting your problems fixed LONG AFTER THE BOAT IS OUT OF WARRANTY. It is critical you understand this before making a large boat purchase. Boats break and it will take a long time learn all your wire runs, etc... that is why support is so necessary. Isn't it good to know you bought a boat that they will support long after it is out of manufacturers warranty? I have had Catalina send me parts on stuff (free) that was well beyond their warranty period. I have had Frank Butler (the owener) call me personally on a warranty issue. I have met him, Gerry Douglas (part owner and designer), Sharon, had dinner several times with Ron (the regional salesman that support the Catalina Dealers), etc. They are easy going, good people with a passion about sailing and VERY CONSCIOUS of their reputations in this industry. Regarding the production of Catalinas, you will find a lot of these boats are still made by hand... probably more than most (if all) production boats. Instead of me running through a bunch of their production methods, go here after this thread... it is a good review:

Yachts and boats for sale - Catalina Yachts

It was written by SAIL magazine and pasted on the Catalina web page. Is it some propaganda?? I don't know, probably some, but it still gives you a great idea on how much thought and time goes into their boats so they will last. They do many things on those boats they do not have to do and the things the original purchaser would not know about for many years... but it keeps their boats floating and sailing a along time afterwards and keep their reputation good.

Regarding the negatives of Catalina... there are some. They put a lot of cabinetry in their boats... but not enough for me. They simply do not do this because of cost. I wonder if they switched out of teak and into Cherry or mahogony if they could start making more cabinets in their boats??? I don't know, but I wish they made more. Now here is a beef I have with some other builders that Catalina excells at: most of your cabinets (if not all) will be solid teak framed in teak plywood. You want to know how much teak costs? I just priced it Sunday at Valiant: $33/board foot!!!! Look around that 42 (or a 400)... you are staring at a small fortune. For example, the Cherry that Valiant puts in their boats (this is very high grade cherry) is $10.33/foot. The reason I know this is that I am in the process of building more cabinets in my boat. You will find that being one of the differences in a Catalina versus a typical blue water boat... blue water boats put in a lot more cabinetry and have a lot more storage. They can do that because they are not building in large volumes so the costs are not multiplied by the same numbers that Catalina does. But you CAN build your own cabinets as you desire them. And I dissagree (at least on the 400 and 380) - most of the cabinetry is solid teak doors surrounded in teak ply. I am not aware of any cheap veneer on that boat (though plywood is really just a veneer... but there is no way around that on any plywood). I have NOT seen that high of quality materials on some other production boats that I will not name.

Another negative is Catalina's use of available storage. There is a LOT of available storage under the liner of the 400, for example, that they simply put a solid liner over. They COULD put an access in it (which really irritates me because it would not cost them that much money), but their attitude is that the owner can do that if he/she wants to and it costs them a lot of money for those things because of the volume they produce in. I also wish they did not put in those "plastic" portholes and I wish they would put in more night run-lights, more diesel and water (in the bilge and not take up storage room), and a few other personal gripes I have. But you know what: Most of these gripes can be modified by the owner once you get the boat and see how you will use her. In that respect, it probably does not make sense to do it on all the boats as it would make ALL the boats even more expensive and many (most) boaters do not care about that. I am just pulling this number out of the air, but I bet 95-98% of all boat owners (including the Valiant, Tayana, Taswell, Beneteau, etc) will NEVER have need for all that cabinetry and tankage, etc.

I have three design gripes that I have come to live with on Catalinas that are available ion some blue water boats: 1) Many Catalinas have relatively shallow bilges (the 42, 470, and 400 are ok and workable for cruising... but could be better... the 440 is HUGE, but that is another conversation); 2) No Collision/watertight bulkhead (MANY bluewater boats do not have this either, but I wish I did), 3) A skeg hung rudder/protected rudder. Those are really my only beefs that cannot be changed for the most part. I have just come to live with the short comings.

Now, to the conversation about the 42 versus the 400. The 400 may be the faster boat, but if it is, not much faster. The 400 does have a bit more waterline. THe 42 is a slightly longer boat... but it will be hard to see it. I have a 42 sitting beside me at my marina, and I guarantee you it does not look any bigger. For all practical purposes, the 42 and the 400 are about the same size boat - inside and out. The lines on the boat are also very similar: both boats are long and sleek, swept back with little windage off the nose and have a transom/swim platform that is about the same size. However, other than that, the boats are very different. The twin wheel configuration has a lot of merits. For one, it is independent so you could in theory lose one steering cable and still steer the boat from the other. Also, the twin wheel configuaration allows for a walkthrough to the transom withou being impeded by the wheel. From a kids/parents point of view, it is the place that I call "Off limits" to the boys, meaning I do not allow any toys back there or messing around. You can also steer from the high/low side much easier than with a centerline. The 2 wheel configuration has some draw backs too. The engine controls are to starboard meaning the wind is always blowing from port in the dock (smile), and you cannot lean over the wheel centerline on the boat (not sure if that makes sense, but I would spend many hours doing that offshore... just a personal preference). In the end, the twin arrangement is a better arrangement but with some compromises that you will get used to. Down below, the boats are completely different. The big positive of the 42 is the fact that you can put in a Washer/dryer (if you buy a pullman configuration) in the forward head. It will take some engineering to do that on the 400. The 42 has a very large lazarette area that is accesible from the galley (on the 2 stateroom model) that is very nice and gives lots of room!! Kris and I call it a Garage, it is so big. Cruising with kids, you will use every inch of it too! Other than that, I think that is the end of the benefits of the 42. The 400 has a MUCH, MUCH, MUCH nicer nav station and is closer to the companionway, it has a straight line berth for a sea berth to port, it has two heads that are really functional (including a seperate shower stall... I think the 42 has a seperate too, depending on the model, can't remember now), but the curved settes on the 42 are useless for a good sea berth. Not to mention you can lay on the starboard side of the 400 and stare at the radar which makes it a nice place to and get some rest when making a long run that is really not available on the 42. The sleeping arrangements are MUCH better on the 400. The owners have a large centerline queen and private head. I don't like the 42 centerline queen because you lose the great forward head arrangement (including the possibility for washer/dryer... one of its big positives), but if you go with the pullman, you hae to deal with the negatives of a pullman berth which include both size reduction and having to crawl over the spouse in the middle of the night.

For me personally, the 400 is my favorite boat Catalina makes... and I am not saying that to intice you one way or the other. I really like and love it more now that when I bought it. It's sailing characteristics will really win you over - but you will not know that until after the purchase I presume. The 42 is a great boat too and will sail very similar to the 400, just maybe not point as close unless you get the fin (which is too deep of a draft for the islands, in my opinion... but that may not be an issue for you). The 470 is basically a big 400, but at those numbers, I would seriously look at other used boats I like a lot, including a Hylas 54, Cam's Tayana 52, an older Mason 54, used Nordhavn 46, or maybe a Taswell 49. That is why I would steer away from the 470... but that is just me. It crosses my financial comfort zone for that type of boat.

It has been mentioned here to get a boat with three cabins. I have to say that I would agree if you can make the numbers work. Our boat is a bit tight with 2 kids. I cannot imagine 2 more. Raising and lowering that table was such a pain, I honestly am in the process of cutting ours in half to make more room. I don't know what your options are for a 3 cabin boat, but consider it if you can. You should at least look.

I hope this makes you feel better about your purchase of a 42. EVERYTHING in boating is a compromise. If the 42 is the right compromise for you, go for it. At those numbers, you are getting a GREAT deal. A 42 will cost quite a bit more than that if ordered new, and a new 400 (believe it or not) costs even more than the 42's (yes, unless they have changed, the 400 costs more than the 42... but they are about the same size boat). You should be able to verify this on www.catalinayachts.com).

ANother positive of the 42 is that there have been a LOT of them built and there will not be many kinks or mistakes. In essence, they have worked out all the bugs. PS - I heard that the 42 is Frank Butler's favorite boat and he owned one for quite some time.

Take care,

Brian


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## MSOUZA2 (Oct 23, 2001)

Randy, I Have Owned 3 Catalina Boats A 22 A New 32 And I Now Sail A 1997 Cat 400. This Boat Is Great For Comfortable Coastal Cruising. She Was Bought Used And Still Looks Great I Have Upgraded The Radar And Chart Plotter To The Raymarine C-80. Everything Else Is Original And Still Functions Great. Maintenance Is Low Due To More Stainless Instead Of Teak. The Gelcoat Is Shinny And Stress Cracks Are Quite Minimal.its A Great Boat For The Money. 
Mark, Catalina 40


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

*Big Boats for Day Sailing*



RandyBC said:


> First of all, we are a family of 6 with kids ranging from 3 -11. We live on the BC coast and want a boat for mostly day cruising in the Strait of Georgia but also for some overnight trips to local anchorages. I'm looking at a 2007 C42 MKii that was a demo boat for $230K US (there are a few extras such as autohelm, spinnaker).


Hello,

I love Catalina boats, so no comments regarding your choice.

My only comment is that if you are really planning on mostly day sailing, with a few overnight trips, IMHO, the 42 is way too big. A Catalina 36 would be a better choice for that sort of sailing. Compared to the 42, the 36 is much cheaper to purchase and maintain, and easier to sail as well. Yes, if you would be spending a week or longer on the boat, the 42 would be more comfortable, but if not, the 36 would really make more sense.

I have 3 kids (7, 10, 13) and we can comfortable spend a week on our O'day 35. My wife and I get the VBerth, daughters the sette berths, and my son is in the quarter berth. We have taken another friend for a few overnight trips, and that is no problem either.

If course, the decision is yours, but there are many times I miss the ease of handling and maintenance of my old 28' boat. Especially now that spring is here and I am preparing the bottom of the 35' for fresh paint.

Good luck,
Barry


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## RandyBC (Mar 2, 2008)

Hello all.....thank you all VERY much for all of the excellent input....Brian, thank you very very much for your reply, it was terrific to talk with you on the phone today. I must say that I'm very impressed with the awesome community of sailors on this forum who take time out of there busy days to reply to those seeking advice. You guys are great.
I think I'm probably going to end up with the C 42, I'll let y'all know how it turns out. (see Brian, 40 min on the phone with you and I'm already using "y'all" eh  )
Randy


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## RandyBC (Mar 2, 2008)

I have a thought that I would like some input on...the biggest issue on the negative side for the particular C42 that I am considering is the lack of dedicated berths for the whole family.
Is it feasible to craft a second bunk in the Pullman berth above the existing one? I was thinking that with some thoughtful design a second double could be made that could fold down against the wall when not in use....any thoughts on this idea??
Regards
Randy


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

RandyBC said:


> I have a thought that I would like some input on...the biggest issue on the negative side for the particular C42 that I am considering is the lack of dedicated berths for the whole family.
> Is it feasible to craft a second bunk in the Pullman berth above the existing one? I was thinking that with some thoughtful design a second double could be made that could fold down against the wall when not in use....any thoughts on this idea??
> Regards
> Randy


Yes, quite possible. We considered this on another boat we looked at. However, that will not buy you enough space to berth 6 on the 42, right? Or did I miss something?

BTW, you are sure welcome for the time this afternoon. Hope you and your family get into it soon.

- Brian


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

If you change your mind on the 42' they're readily converted to offshore oil drilling platforms, just add an anchor.





Hey, the guy spent an hour on the phone with the CruisingGormet and he's already talking like Jerry Jones-he needs a little humour/therapy.

Did CD tell you how the cockpit was originally designed as an open-pit barbeque? Reynold'sWrap discontinued that size of aluminum foil for the pit liner and that's also why CD doesn't leave the dock anymore; no sails.

It could be worse; you could have been looking to buy a M........!


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## RandyBC (Mar 2, 2008)

Hi Brian....2 doubles in the Pullman (with hypothetical extra bunk), and one double in the aft quarterberth...total of 6 n'est pas? Or am I missing something??
Sailaway...hey with oil at $108 US that might pay off. See how many great ideas float around here? Good on ya mate for thinkin outside the box. Who the h*** is Jerry Jones??
Randy


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Jerry Jones is CD's personal BB-Q consultant. He's got the world's largest open-pit BB-Q over in Irving, Texas. You can't shut him up from talking about it. CD works weekends there in the fall as a shower room attendant. He does it because he get's to keep the used flip-flops. You'll never see a photo of his kids wearing anything but those blue and silver flip-flops. Hey, times are hard.


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## RandyBC (Mar 2, 2008)

OOOHHHH...I thought we was that guy with the spiked Kool-Aid in Guyana. I hate Kool-Aid but do enjoy a good BBQ.
Actually come to think of it, I don't mind Kool-Aid that much either.
Randy


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## RichardElliott (Sep 24, 2001)

*Catalina 42*

RandyBC may already be aware, but needs to know, that the last Catalina has been manufactured in Southern California. All future boats will come from Florida at $$$ freight, estimated at $10,000 for a 42 to the Pacific Northwest.


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## RichardElliott (Sep 24, 2001)

*Catalina 42*

RandyBC may already be aware, but needs to know, that the last Catalina has been manufactured in Southern California. All future boats will come from Florida at $$$ freight, estimated at $10,000 for a 42 to the Pacific Northwest.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

I sometimes find all this Catalina bashing somewhat fatiguing. Often times on this forum, I read about people "bashing" the Catalina product and recommending some ancient boat of their favorite brand at some price way below what you could get a comparable Catalina for. A good example is someone in this thread noting that the Catalina doesn't have a watertight collision bulkhead! You have to go to ORC Category ZERO boats to find that! I helped outfit a C42 a couple of years ago to do the Pacific Cup (San Francisco to Hawaii, the boat placed third in it's division) and now I'm doing the same for a Nordic 44 and I'm finding that I'm doing the exact same things to get that boat up to ORC Category 1 as the Catalina (and then some, I'm doing way more rebedding and caulking as well as replacing a hatch on that boat.)

My experience in the C42 is slightly under a thousand miles of coastal cruising and have experienced gale force winds and 15 foot, 20 second seas. The boat handled everything fine as is very comfortable when it is rough outside. I like the two stateroom Pullman version as the Pullman berth is extremely comfortable in very bad conditions. (Although, I wouldn't recommend using the forward head without a seatbelt!) The advantage of this version is you get a traditional galley with tons of storage (where the third berth would have been). I also know of two C42s that are actively raced as singlehanders in our offshore racing series so I'm quite sure you can singlehand it. The C42 was the personal boat of Gerry Douglas, Catalina's chief designer as well as Frank Butler, the company founder (that was until he "upgraded" to the C470 a couple of years ago).


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

RichardElliott said:


> RandyBC may already be aware, but needs to know, that the last Catalina has been manufactured in Southern California. All future boats will come from Florida at $$$ freight, estimated at $10,000 for a 42 to the Pacific Northwest.


I know that has been discussed, but the last time I talked to Ron (Catalina Regional Salesman) they were not being moved. Who told you this? You get this from Sharon, Frank, or Gerry Douglas?

- CD


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

GeorgeB said:


> I sometimes find all this Catalina bashing somewhat fatiguing. Often times on this forum, I read about people "bashing" the Catalina product and recommending some ancient boat of their favorite brand at some price way below what you could get a comparable Catalina for. A good example is someone in this thread noting that the Catalina doesn't have a watertight collision bulkhead! You have to go to ORC Category ZERO boats to find that! I helped outfit a C42 a couple of years ago to do the Pacific Cup (San Francisco to Hawaii, the boat placed third in it's division) and now I'm doing the same for a Nordic 44 and I'm finding that I'm doing the exact same things to get that boat up to ORC Category 1 as the Catalina (and then some, I'm doing way more rebedding and caulking as well as replacing a hatch on that boat.)
> 
> My experience in the C42 is slightly under a thousand miles of coastal cruising and have experienced gale force winds and 15 foot, 20 second seas. The boat handled everything fine as is very comfortable when it is rough outside. I like the two stateroom Pullman version as the Pullman berth is extremely comfortable in very bad conditions. (Although, I wouldn't recommend using the forward head without a seatbelt!) The advantage of this version is you get a traditional galley with tons of storage (where the third berth would have been). I also know of two C42s that are actively raced as singlehanders in our offshore racing series so I'm quite sure you can singlehand it. The C42 was the personal boat of Gerry Douglas, Catalina's chief designer as well as Frank Butler, the company founder (that was until he "upgraded" to the C470 a couple of years ago).


Maybe I have misread you, but are you inferring that I am one of the bashers?????? If so, you have totally misread my post. George, I am without a doubt one of their biggest advocates...

- CD


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Maybe I have misread you, but are you inferring that I am one of the bashers?????? If so, you have totally misread my post. George, I am without a doubt one of their biggest advocates...
> 
> - CD


Like we needed reminding? (g)


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Sailaway-

Having CD as as an avid supporter is effectively like Bashing Catalinas... isn't it.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

I know there is not a location near you, but maybe there needs to be one.
WindPath Sailing | Home


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Sorry for the outburst Cam. Sometimes all this "Catalina bashing" pushes my buttons. Here we have an example of somebody who is trying to make an informed decision about buying a boat and is having real trouble separating myth from fact. Reading these "bashes" would leave the impression that these are pretty crappy boats when the opposite closer to the truth. Catalina builds a pretty good quality product that meets the needs of a large segment of the boating public. They never passed themselves off as a Swan or other high end boats so why the animosity? I just can't figure it out. Enough of the soapbox.

Gentrification and the stringent air quality control laws in Southern California has made it extremely difficult to build boats in Woodland Hills. For example, hull layup can only happen on Graveyard as their neighbors have complained about the fiberglass smell during the day. I've been told by Sharon Day that one of the reasons behind purchasing Morgan was for their Ft. Lauderdale facility. The C42 and C34 molds have been transferred to Florida and building those two boats will resume there later this year. They elected not to move the C36 molds and tooling and that is why it is being discontinued. I heard that small boat production as well as the Capri's will continue to be made in California. I believe that all the boats being finished in Woodland Hills have been spoken for with the exception of several "spec" boats. Yes, freight will increase (some $10k for the 34!) the price of the boats on the west coast. So purchasing one of those "spec" boats is going to have a real price advantage.

In my tenure as National Measurer for the C34 Owners Association I have never heard of any chronic problems resulting from build quality. These boats are by no means flimsy. On this site, it was noted that Catalina interiors "creak" and that the hulls "flex". I'm no naval architect but I suspect that all boats experience some sort of movement (the Areodyne I used to sail on did). I suspect that the creaking is really because all of the (modern) Catalina interiors are sized small enough to go through the companionway and are screwed together and into the boat rather than the more common practice of building the interiors in before the deck mating. One of the problems we encountered on the Nordic was its T Track was mounted before mating and we had to bring in a carpenter to remove some cabinetry to expose some of the nuts so we could recaulk (not to mention their liberal use of 5200 in the manufacturing process). This is in stark contrast to the Catalina's where all of these nuts are easily accessible. Out here in San Francisco Bay, Catalina's are pretty common as grass despite our normal summer afternoon winds of mid twenties and the extremely challenging sea conditions outside the Gate. Certainly, the interiors are a little pedestrian, and if that is important to someone, then by all means buy a Sabre. Personally, I couldn't justify the additional expense.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

George, I think we cleared that up. Most of the Catalina bashing was aimed at CD for fun, not the boats. There are several threads comparing the "big three", and one of those three does get bashed more often, but it is not Catalina. There are some that make some off-handed comments about them, build quality, creaking, etc, as you say, but I wonder how many of the naysayers have actually sailed on them or even know people that have sailed on them. Not meaning to open up a can of worms here, but I take all the generalized comments with a grain of salt.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi Randy, we just bought a Catalina and it's in Ladysmith BC, I remember someone out there talking about a doctor from Hinton having a boat out there. Is that you?


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