# Youtube sailboat video blogs - question



## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

I guess I am old school - and it seems to work for many - but sailing around the world or maybe just the Caribbean and asking others to support you - this works? I would have thought you can always ask but there would not be many who would send you $$ - but I guess many do.
While I enjoy some of the video's its going to be a cold day in hell when I send a couple of twentysomethings dinero to help them sail around the Pacific in their $300,000 boat.

I know many do it in a much smaller / less expensive boat - and I can relate better to them, I would still save the money for my own adventure -


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Never hurts to ask. I have a Patreon link in our videos - and a grand total of *1* Patron that we are *very* proud of (a good friend)!

But I don't really care about that. It's more about memories for the boys. At the same time, I have no problem with anyone who is producing good videos asking for patronage. It really is a lot of work to make entertaining stuff. I think they'd be dumb NOT to ask. No one has to pay.

For the real money you need young ladies in skimpy bathing attire. We only have a little dog with a lot of hair. So there you go...


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## dwedeking (Jan 28, 2007)

I was suprised to see some of the numbers on Patreon. 

Some do very well, some squeak out enough to cover basic bills, some not so much. There is a wide range in production skill as well. I recently found Delos and watched their videos from start to the current ones. It was interesting to see them gaining skills in post-production, shoot planning etc. 

I do pay for one channel and consider it the same as paying for a netflix or amazon prime channel. 

I understand why some don't like the content but I don't get the objection to people making money this way. If I travel around the world and then write a book about it, that's ok, but breaking it up into installments and using video makes it not ok?


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## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

I don't see a problem with people asking for money - I am just surprised how many give.

My favorite is this guy in Norway who sails a Contessa 35 single handed in the North Sea, he has great drone shots - no chicks in bikini's just him sailing in some interesting weather/seas.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I have been involved with the Vin and Amy, who are doing the 'Sailing Nervous' videos on Youtube. I know that they have a number of Patreons but my impression is that it only pays a little more than their costs to do the videos. 

Jeff


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Doing these videos is...work, and for some it is a real business.
It's a true buzz kill to adventure tripping.
It's not 'you and your trip' - the video work/project owns you.
You will not 'fly with the dove, experience enlightenment never foreseen'...because

...are the batts charged, where is the cable, where is the muff for the extended mic, stabilization is not working, damn drops/spray on the lens, what is Canon's international tech 800#?, wait..need to reshoot, guys do it again but leave out the F work OK, now turn your butt towards me, remember to tease the camera, hang on the backstay 30 more secs, check the clicks on our website, etc etc etc....


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

I like the Delos crew and their attitude. I have given them a few bucks from time to time. I find some others who can be irritating with their novice antics. Seems there is a lot more of them out their these days. But, Delos and Drake Paragon are the ones I tend watch when I'm off of my boat for the winter and in between off season charters.
Yes, It is a lot of work to edit the videos. Sailing Vagabond has their own video editor on board these days. IMO DELOS still produces better more interesting videos. But, none of them puts a gun to my head to make me open my wallet. I do so willingly for those who produce videos I like. DELOS fits that bill.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

I think Drake tries to portray real sailing without the T and A. Or maybe it's just too cold where they are...
I want to see the real deal...when stuff goes to hell...sht hits the fan...etc.
But everybody is busy actually sailing and holding the fort down then...only verbiage and film after...
So, in the end...it's not real. It's a reporting.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

smackdaddy said:


> For the real money you need young ladies in skimpy bathing attire. We only have a little dog with a lot of hair. So there you go...


That is a relatively easy fix for you. I'm sure your boys wouldn't mind either, though they may get distracted from the sailing.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

RegisteredUser said:


> I think Drake tries to portray real sailing without the T and A. Or maybe it's just too cold where they are...
> I want to see the real deal...when stuff goes to hell...sht hits the fan...etc.
> But everybody is busy actually sailing and holding the fort down then...only verbiage and film after...
> So, in the end...it's not real. It's a reporting.


It's one of the reason's I like S/V DELOS they show the fun of cruising, the boredom and the Oh Sh*t moments. Like in one of the recent videos:


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## dwedeking (Jan 28, 2007)

cdy said:


> I don't see a problem with people asking for money - I am just surprised how many give.
> 
> My favorite is this guy in Norway who sails a Contessa 35 single handed in the North Sea, he has great drone shots - no chicks in bikini's just him sailing in some interesting weather/seas.


Actually, a very small percentage of viewers give. Take SV Delos, on Youtube they have 220k subscribers, a video a week old will have 100k+ views (and that seems to be happening consistently) yet on Patreon they have 1,600+ paying subscribers. Less than 1% conversion rate vs. youtube subscribers. I would assume they are one of the most successful (from the public numbers). It took them something like seven years to find that level of success. I do marketing as a career and find that they are a case-study in identifying their target market (their videos seem to have a good mix of T&A, partying, travel and exploring, off-the-beaten path, and technical cruising/sailing items). It's just that the scalability of modern communications allows this to be a viable business model (produce one video and reach a large enough audience that the mini-payments equal a substantial amount).

Some of the vbloggers have different business models as well. One provides advertising opportunities (donate so much per issue, and it puts your company on their website and in the video).


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

It's my understanding that Sailing LaVagabonde is the money leader, with a few hundred thousand per year. Their deal with Outremer is likely the future of commercializing this channel. Ironically, once they got the new boat, I got pretty tired of their channel. I don't watch it any more.

Drake Paragon is on a great adventure, but it takes them so long to tell a short story. I was very interested in their voyage up the US East coast, but its just hard to stay engaged, when they are 2-3 years behind real time. I loved watching his early Bermuda and refit vids. I don't watch anymore.

Delos seems to have the right balance. Good stories. They are keeping it real. Love the exposure to places I've never been. They show the ups and downs of cruising. They're my fav.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> It's my understanding that Sailing LaVagabonde is the money leader, with a few hundred thousand per year. Their deal with Outremer is likely the future of commercializing this channel. Ironically, once they got the new boat, I got pretty tired of their channel. I don't watch it any more.
> 
> Drake Paragon is on a great adventure, but it takes them so long to tell a short story. I was very interested in their voyage up the US East coast, but its just hard to stay engaged, when they are 2-3 years behind real time. I loved watching his early Bermuda and refit vids. I don't watch anymore.
> 
> Delos seems to have the right balance. Good stories. They are keeping it real. Love the exposure to places I've never been. They show the ups and downs of cruising. They're my fav.


 I feel the same way about LaVagabound. Delos videos are much more interesting and they seem much more competent. They work together well. I also like to see how their occasional guests develop their sea legs and help out too.


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## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

Given the amount of utter crap entertainment that's available (here I'm talking about what's on TV, Netflix, at the movies, etc) I'm happy to pay a few people making sailboat videos to ensure they _keep_ making them.

If Mads (of Sail Life) Nike (of White Spot Pirates) or Dan and Kika (of Sailing Uma) stopped posting videos, I'd be massively disappointed. (There are others as well, but those are my three favorites)

So, for me, I don't have a problem shooting a little money their way to keep the entertainment coming.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

BillMoran said:


> Given the amount of *utter crap* entertainment that's available.....


I would have used stronger words, but that's a good description of what's currently trying to waste our time.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Two predictions. First, scheduled network style TV shows will go away and be fully replaced by on demand programming. Second, you'll start to see major involvement from the networks, or other commercial interests, in producing these youtube channels with higher viewership. The ad content will expand and become more like our current TV broadcasts, which is the only prediction that disappoints me.

I also expect the home cable/DTV subscription concept to die as well. On the other hand, they will likely start charging more for generic internet access, where you will access your on-demand programming.


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## Charles88 (Sep 8, 2017)

if they like the content, they will send support. Its all about content of the videos and personality of the creator. Its hard to get into the spotlight but there were many people who made living by creating small traveling channels. On youtube you can find people only playing games and have millions of followers.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Charles88 said:


> ........On youtube you can find people only playing games and have millions of followers.


Yes, the most popular youtube sailing channels have hundreds of thousands of subscribers. Gamers have millions. There is a guy that cooks in his kitchen that just tapped one million.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> Yes, the most popular youtube sailing channels have hundreds of thousands of subscribers. Gamers have millions. There is a guy that cooks in his kitchen that just tapped one million.


In the old days it was a long shot to get a TV show on the air, Even then there were all kinds of hoops that you had to jump through. You Tube freed content producers from that. If you can find an audience and keep producing content on a regular basis you can be successful with very little capitol outlay. But, producing and editing the content is still work and to do it on a regular basis it becomes more like a job. It takes time from other things in life. So personally I don't do it to often. I'd rather be staring at the sunset directly and not through a viewfinder.

Another of the YT channels I enjoy watching from time to time is Keys Kayak Fishing. I'm not a Kayaker but, this fellow has a nice niche and interesting life taking videos in his Kayak as he fishes around the Florida Keys. Once a month he shows his income from advertising. Not enough to live on but, helps pay for his bait, rods, reels and lures.


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

Thanks for sharing the kayak guy. He is entertaining. 

Stopped watching Vagabonde as well when they went Hollywood. 

My favorites are Winded Voyage and Sail Life with Mads. Also like Sailboat Story. Winded Voyage is the only sailing vlog I give money to via Patreon.


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## ThereYouAre (Sep 21, 2016)

Charles88 said:


> On youtube you can find people only playing games and have millions of followers.


I read (on SA I think) that it was an interview by a gaming channel on youtube that rocketed La Vagabond to the top the sailing vlogging charts.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Speaking of sailing video blogs. I came across this video blog called Sailing Mischief. They just lost their boat in St. Martin because of IRMA. Kicker was they had just sailed there from Grenada! They have already started a GOFUND me page to raise $50K for a new boat. The comments about this are brutal.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

mbianka said:


> Speaking of sailing video blogs. I came across this video blog called Sailing Mischief. They just lost their boat in St. Martin because of IRMA. Kicker was they had just sailed there from Grenada! They have already started a GOFUND me page to raise $50K for a new boat. The comments about this are brutal.


This vlog is one that lacks all creativity, but sells the T&A. One episode is titled "Small Jugs to Fill Big Tanks". I didn't watch it, but it must be about filling water or fuel, but the click bait is a pic of her boobs in a bikini.

They deserve the ire they are receiving, IMO. People died and those that lived don't have the basic essentials and there is another storm bearing down. It is sick to ask for money to replace a boat, they didn't have to lose.

Here are some of my fav comments on the vid:



> From what I can see you met up with "Sailing Uma" (published Sept 07) in Martinique just a few days before the hurricane. They where smart and headed for Grenada while you knowingly sailed into the storm. If I were your insurance company I would walk away or is it you wanted your boat to be destroyed and collect the insurance. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would have headed south.﻿
> 
> Did you get the millennial dufus coverage on your insurance?﻿
> 
> ...


and for the win......



> GoFundYourself.﻿


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

I was watching some of WhiteSpotPirates today.
She seems like the real deal, on a shoestring, doing the deal...strong person.
I'd rather watch her change a starter on her self maintained boat than than cleavage giggling on 1/2 mil cat.
That's not to say that cleavage is bad, or course...


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## Luke Berger (Sep 9, 2017)

Minnewaska said:


> Two predictions. First, scheduled network style TV shows will go away and be fully replaced by on demand programming. Second, you'll start to see major involvement from the networks, or other commercial interests, in producing these youtube channels with higher viewership. The ad content will expand and become more like our current TV broadcasts, which is the only prediction that disappoints me.
> 
> I also expect the home cable/DTV subscription concept to die as well. On the other hand, they will likely start charging more for generic internet access, where you will access your on-demand programming.


I completely agree with you... I just finished my MBA and that education gave me a whole new perspective on everything in the business world but particularly marketing. I 'cut the cord' and cancelled my cable TV about 6 months ago and now just have broadband cable @ $60 a month. I watch a lot of sailing blogs, boat building stuff etc, plus see my TV shows and movies via streaming.
I think the whole paradigm of network TV is going to shift and cable companies are doomed unless they make major changes with the tides. Google Fiber is going to bring extreme speed broadband and people will ditch cable broadband in droves. The next thing after that is broadcast broadband wi-fi supported by the fiber network, that will kill cellular data. If you are an investor, do your homework and buy now. I don't have much, but I am investing as much as possible.

Also, yes... I agree that as the shift away from cable and cell providers begins to favor fiber-based broadband and broadcast wi-fi the cost of of internet (ISPs) will go up. I think the cable companies will only make it as 'cheaper' alternative by keeping broadband cable internet around for a little while.


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## Luke Berger (Sep 9, 2017)

My You Tube subscriptions are about 30 channels of Sailing Vlogs plus a smattering of other topics.

I love the Delos crew, been following them for three years. I think they are up to $11K per episode now on Patereon while La Vagabonde is around $9k.

I agree with many of the previous posts... doing all those videos makes it work instead of pleasure. I don't think I could do it but I certainly don't see anything wrong with what those who are successful at are accomplishing. Its a brave new world out there and these folks are pioneers.

If you have followed Delos from the beginning, or you have at least binge watched what you missed, you know Brian's story; How he went from working at Microsoft to starting his own company with three partners, all while moving from a Catalina 22 to I think it was a Catalina 30 (something in that range) and then to the Amel Super Maramu. He made a brave choice to live his life instead of living in his office. I've watched the quality of videos progress from the start to the superb level they are now. Its been a great journey and you can't help but get attached to the people. I'm not a Patreon but I've donated through 'Buy Us a Beer' on a few occasions.

La Vagabonde is a good example of a different model. There has been a ton of buzz about the OutReemer deal and what it has done or will do (commercializing the user produced content). Without re-hashing the whole debate, all I can say is that its not my cup of tea but I can see the logic.... honestly if I had the same opportunity I probably would have done it. I still like the SV Delos model better and other channels like it (there are MANY now), but I believe there is a great deal of room for both models.

If you study marketing at all you know that companies spend millions on marketing campaigns, even boat builders like OutReemer spend hundreds of thousands... I think that these companies will wake up and smell the roses and end up reaching more potential customers and spend less money than traditional marketing campaigns would have cost. I am a bit cautious at how everything will play out but this is really still a new frontier in how content is funded, produced, and delivered. I just think its its great that there is so much out there now vs just 5 to 7 years ago... Some is good, some is crap, but its progress for sure.

Will I ever start a YouTube channel about my sailing adventures and hope to raise significant funding from Patreon? Nope. I think the 'market' is already saturated unless you come up with a really unique idea. Plus, as mentioned before, I'm interested in cruising and not editing video in my spare time. I'm still a good 7 to 10 years away from a full time cruising life so I'm just in 'wait and see' mode.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Luke Berger said:


> My You Tube subscriptions are about 30 channels of Sailing Vlogs plus a smattering of other topics.
> 
> I love the Delos crew, been following them for three years. I think they are up to $11K per episode now on Patereon while La Vagabonde is around $9k.
> 
> ...


Well said! Got rid of cable and my TV's several years ago. Don't miss any of them. Even niche channels can have a dedicated audience that some advertiser wants to reach.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

RegisteredUser said:


> I was watching some of WhiteSpotPirates today.
> She seems like the real deal......


I'm not so sure she's the real deal. I watched her at the beginning, but she was faking it. She put on like she was alone, but she clearly had help. I liked the story, but dislike the fraud. Not sure if she's more upfront now.

She's a former marketing professional.


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

I have given some money but very little a few times.

I don't have cable either and I gave amazon a few bucks for the privilege to watch game of thrones so it's the same thing to me to give to an youtube channel.

I have noticed the up tick in the click bait stuff, I'm hoping that the creators will see that that's not what get sub's it's the content.

Bob


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

snokid said:


> I have given some money but very little a few times.
> 
> I don't have cable either and I gave amazon a few bucks for the privilege to watch game of thrones so it's the same thing to me to give to an youtube channel.
> 
> ...


I don't watch a few minutes of Lazy Gecko here and there to brush up on sailing how to's .... just sayin'


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

I got tired of them with their vimeo thing I wasn't paying for that content. Plus they got into the first show you what we showed you last week, then 5 min's of new content the show you what they are going to show you next week. When they were buying and outfitting their boat it was interesting but now day sailing not so much. it's not like I won't watch it but if there's a new episode of delos gone with the winns sailing rann etc I will watch them first....

Bob


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## Rocky Mountain Breeze (Mar 30, 2015)

I have watched a few of the videos but not on a regular basis. Most seem to me like the old fishing shows on television. 30 or 40 hours of fishing time condensed to 20 minutes, not my cup of tea. I quit watching television about 15 years ago so the entertainment factor is not involved.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

BillMoran said:


> Given the amount of utter crap entertainment that's available (here I'm talking about what's on TV, Netflix, at the movies, etc) I'm happy to pay a few people making sailboat videos to ensure they _keep_ making them.
> 
> If Mads (of Sail Life) Nike (of White Spot Pirates) or Dan and Kika (of Sailing Uma) stopped posting videos, I'd be massively disappointed. (There are others as well, but those are my three favorites)
> 
> So, for me, I don't have a problem shooting a little money their way to keep the entertainment coming.


Yes, I send Dan and Kika a couple bucks once in a while because I think they are such a cute couple.


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## CoastLife (Jan 14, 2017)

I watch a lot of sailing VLOGS, and my wife and I have one of our own called 'Coast life'. It's fairly new but growing. (We've been learning to sail from video 1)

I love Delos. If it was not for them, I don't think I'd have realized that sailing the world could be so cool and achievable. I've watched them for 7 years. Watching them grow with ups and downs in crew and editing. They are now I think putting out the best video content they ever have. And they've never lost sight of there ideals. They're awesome and deserve every cent people wish to give them. When they say they need to take a break from editing videos and internet work. they aren't joking. I also agree with most peoples comments on La Vagabond, since the new boat, the videos seem to focus on the new boat and not so much the human aspect of it all. I miss the older videos style. But hell, it seems to work for them and maybe they just got tired of sharing the personal lives. To each there own. It also blows me a away that people will give to a creators on patreon that already has such a huge income levels (Like Delos and Vaga). We prefer to support smaller channels that don't have such a massive support level. That being said I did buy a Delos T-shirt last month but that's different, I wanted the shirt.  

Recently Monday Never posted that they are no longer going to charge Patreons for there videos (We are a supporter of that channel) because they have gone back to work and don't want to charge money when they already make money at regular jobs. That's not how I see it. I wasn't paying money to support there life style choice. I was paying to help the making of their content. Things like camera gear and the amazing trouble of editing down videos. sharing a window into there lives. They haven't put many videos out lately (maybe 1 or 2 in a 6 month period) and I think it's because the working 9-5 to then go home and spend your evenings editing videos from last year is just exhausting. 

I will tell you straight up if you don't hold some enjoyment in editing videos, it's not sustainable and might very well be torture. Luckily I generally enjoy it, although it can get tiring. 
During the summer months we reduced our working lives to part time (to sail as much as possible) and have released a video a week. We shoot with 2 go pro's and don't really setup up shots or do second takes. We just record what happens, update as we go and edit edit edit.. 
Most videos are around 15 min and are about a day or two of sailing. It takes 8-10 hours of editing to get them to the level we like them to be at. I usually spend 2 to 3 hours a day editing a video throughout the weekl so I don't get burnt out. It's hard to keep up with a video a week to be honest. between working and sailing and life. 

I guess in summary... Sailing vlogs take a lot of work to produce, they can be intrusive on your experience and your inviting strangers judgement good and bad into your life. While it's been our experience that the positive support far far outweighs the bad. The occasional negative comment is hard ignore and let go. They sting.. 

It's nice to this thread here and see a healthy and civilized discussion on sailing VLOGs. 

Cheers, 

-Chad


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

I also have a youtube channel not sailing related though. I had the idea that I might start a sailing vlog also... Well I get on the boat break out the camera's and the fun is gone!!!

Also youtube isn't a money maker alone. about 1 million views will get you a boat buck. Patreon is what you need to make anything like a living, but this comes at a cost...TIME...

Lets say you want to put out about 1/2 hour of content a week. You are going to film at least 2 hours of garbage and 6 hours of good stuff. Now you have to edit it figure at least 1 hour per minute of video so there's 30 hours.

Now you have your video and you have uploaded it, your not done by a longshot.

now you have to promote it!!! Facebook twitter snapchat etc... figure some cut and pasting can happen there but still a couple more hours.

Now you get comments you need to respond to, more time to devote...

When all said and done you might as well work a real job!!!

Bob


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

mbianka said:


> Speaking of sailing video blogs. I came across this video blog called Sailing Mischief. They just lost their boat in St. Martin because of IRMA. Kicker was they had just sailed there from Grenada! They have already started a GOFUND me page to raise $50K for a new boat. The comments about this are brutal.


Yikes!

I just read some of the comments!

Wow!

I wish Donna, her Dragon and the other Mods would rsad the comments and see how Easy we go on the idiots who do similar posts/requests here.

Wow! Such rude comments! 
I agree with them all. If you are so Stupid to sail into hurricane region then STAY there while God's wrath, predicted for Days then you deserve to be butt shoved by a rhinoceros asking for a free handout for a new luxury item whilst people are still dying and have no roof or fresh water nor food for their children. 
Pity we can't say "**** You!" on this forum!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

CoastLife said:


> ...... It also blows me a away that people will give to a creators on patreon that already has such a huge income levels (Like Delos and Vaga).......


I found this point interesting. The model allows you to make that decision, along with just not paying ever. The only thing that I understand a Patreon subscriber usually gets is early access and maybe some free additional content. That's not much. I think the majority of Patreon supporters feel they just want to support the producers anyway.

My eyebrows raised over the idea that there is an amount that is enough. While it's estimated that Delos takes in a couple hundred thousand per year, that supports three people, all their production equipment and a world cruising boat. The boat not only gets repairs in the tens of thousands, but there was a mortgage last I heard. That's not really much left at the end of the day. From an interview vid, I understand they are responsible and are buying both health and boat insurance and paying taxes. I doubt they are saving for a retirement one day. On that channel, it's literally their full time jobs.

Personally, I much prefer to buy an acceptably overpriced t-shirt than pay a fee to watch a single video, but to each their own.


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## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

Minnewaska said:


> I found this point interesting. The model allows you to make that decision, along with just not paying ever. The only thing that I understand a Patreon subscriber usually gets is early access and maybe some free additional content. That's not much. I think the majority of Patreon supporters feel they just want to support the producers anyway.


One thing that a some are using (I think, to good effect) is contests. La Vagabond, for example, will pick a Patron at random every so often and invite them to come spend a week on the boat. It's like a low-cost cruising vacation. People love contests, so I think it's a good plan to encourage supporters. I'm surprised more don't do it, you could give away things like signed mugs or t-shirts to encourage people who are on the fence about donating a bit.

In the end, most people will pay for something they perceive as valuable. The difference in opinion on what constitutes value is where discussions like this get spawned.

I find it interesting that there are certainly people out there who put a lot of time+effort into making videos that I have no interest in watching, and therefore will never give money to. That doesn't invalidate the effort spent, but it's an example of how hard work isn't guaranteed to pay off. The flip side is that there are videos out there that seem to be hacked together with little or no effort that have lots and lots of viewers. Getting angry about people being successful when they haven't "earned" it is just a way to guarantee that you're angry all the time.


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## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

CoastLife said:


> I watch a lot of sailing VLOGS, and my wife and I have one of our own called 'Coast life'. It's fairly new but growing. (We've been learning to sail from video 1)


I found your channel very recently. I think you're doing a great job. I especially enjoyed watching you tear into that boat over the winter, probably in part because I expect that this upcoming winter will be a lot like that for me.

Keep up the good work!


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## dwedeking (Jan 28, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> I found this point interesting. The model allows you to make that decision, along with just not paying ever. The only thing that I understand a Patreon subscriber usually gets is early access and maybe some free additional content. That's not much. I think the majority of Patreon supporters feel they just want to support the producers anyway.


I saw one vlog that had it so higher donators would have links on their website and be mentioned in the credits of the videos, basically an advertising model.

I also don't get the "they make too much money" thought process. I look at what I get for the money spent. Make quality content = money, make home videos = stay small, don't make money.



> In the end, most people will pay for something they perceive as valuable.


For me, I had recently sold the boat I was living aboard and had purchased another boat across state. I needed to get some mechanical repairs done so was without a boat and living in a motel for a period. My therapy was to catch up on Delos's travels and as I saw value in that I've spent some money with them. Cheaper than a therapist.


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

Chad,. Been watching you since episode 1. Your doing a fine job. You and your wife have a good sense of humor and humility. Keep it up!


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## CoastLife (Jan 14, 2017)

Minnewaska said:


> I found this point interesting. The model allows you to make that decision, along with just not paying ever. The only thing that I understand a Patreon subscriber usually gets is early access and maybe some free additional content. That's not much. I think the majority of Patreon supporters feel they just want to support the producers anyway.
> 
> My eyebrows raised over the idea that there is an amount that is enough. While it's estimated that Delos takes in a couple hundred thousand per year, that supports three people, all their production equipment and a world cruising boat. The boat not only gets repairs in the tens of thousands, but there was a mortgage last I heard. That's not really much left at the end of the day. From an interview vid, I understand they are responsible and are buying both health and boat insurance and paying taxes. I doubt they are saving for a retirement one day. On that channel, it's literally their full time jobs.


I'm stoked Delos can make the kind of money they do. They work hard for it.

I was not inferring that they did not deserve it. And it certainly does not offend me that they can and do make so much. It's just for me, money is very limited. If I am going to help support content (which I do) I'd rather offer to those who it will impact more. So I choose to support as a Patreon with smaller creators who work equally as hard at creating good content. The blown away part is me forgetting not everyone has similar thinking as myself.

I think they can afford to save for retirement. here is my calculations. 
Patreon makes them 11,000 dollars per video (4 per month) 
That's $500,000 yearly. Divide by 3 people is 160,000 per person per year.
Plus Youtube earnings. 2 million views in the last 30 days roughly translates to a conservative $2000 per month.

And I think that's amazing! But I just would rather help support those that are struggling more to make ends meet.

-Chad


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Not sure the math is correct. Most Patreon subscribers apply a cap to their monthly contributions, so they can't get hosed with a vid per day. I bet the majority don't support 4 per month. 

Then consider boat expenses. New sails 20 grand, new electronics about the same. Fuel, haul outs, general repairs. Then there is insurance for the boat, year round, in remote places. That has to be 10 grand. Health insurance for 3? Your guess is as good as mine. Expensive. Video equipment, software, laptops and data plans. The revenue goes fast.

I truly have no problem with who you support. I just don't think these guys are racking up a pile of cash. They're paying their bills and being responsible. Plus, they will desparately need a new boat soon. Delos has taken a beating.


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## CoastLife (Jan 14, 2017)

I agree the math isn't that simple. But I know they're living expenses have been mentioned by Brian a number of times on various videos. And while I forget the number. I'm sure they are living well below their current means. 
Which is awesome.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I recall, in Indonesia, they said something like $125/person/week. That was both a very inexpensive part of the world and only their direct variable living expenses, like food and fuel and beer. That didn't include their mortgage, insurance, or boat repair, as I recall.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I think I watched a few sailing vlogs and decided that I have better things to do. I most certainly wouldn't send money to the vloggers. Sure it's work and a clever way to live and cruise and make money... The other way is to write a book or something after you accomplished something which presumably interests people enough to buy the book and read it.

There are elements of voyeurism, narcissism... information... like travel vids or how to vids. If others want to support these sailors... go for it. Not for me. I would rather give to causes where people really need help. 

Now there is a new model to cut the lines and go off sailing... get others to pay for it and sell your home movies which you probably were taking anyway for memory sake.

Whenever there is big bucks the commercialism turns the effort tacky in my mind.

Interesting discussion... as usual I am sailing a different tack on this one.


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## Proteus Rising (Sep 13, 2017)

We're big fans of Sailing Uma and pony up a measly dollar for every video they produce. Those kids are fearless and for that we'd pay a dollar to watch. We also support Abandon Comfort and actually had the couple hang with us during their national park tour while Lucy was on the hard. Good kids. Learned lots from them and they are completely transparent.


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## Proteus Rising (Sep 13, 2017)

BillMoran said:


> I found your channel very recently. I think you're doing a great job. I especially enjoyed watching you tear into that boat over the winter, probably in part because I expect that this upcoming winter will be a lot like that for me.
> 
> Keep up the good work!


RE: Coast Life

We'll have to check it out.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I have kind of changed my view on sailing videos.

I used to like the slick ones one La Vagy, what the Delos, but as nice as they are to watch, they too big..

Generally speaking, if the thumbnail is all about women in bikinis it is likely all about viewership over quality. sailing doodles has turned into that.. he uses bikini thumbnails of women who are no longer in the videos and hasn't been for a while. The quality hasn't changed that much... but when you have worked so hard to draw in viewers by how Megan fills out her swim suit and she leaves... you have jumped the shark.

Coast Life is humble, and enjoyable... they try to respond to listeners and do have a quirkly humor, a little leaning hipster, which leans towards #hashtagHumor. I like it, but I could see how a lot of people would want more babes in Thailand... They did a



... one of those things the glossy people never think about doing.

For me, the problem with a lot of the videos, is the lack of humility. Sail Life is the epitome of a humble approach, yet he never really cracks 40K views.... but should.

What I have noticed is the whining. I don't care what salt does to your camera equipment.... or that you have to pay $10 for a beer... complaining doesn't really make me want to buy you equipment.

The ones I really like usually have an inverted viewership to quality.

The Sailboat Story has some of the best put together videos out there. They get about 7k views (except when the thumbnail is of the wife in a bathing suit) and really should have about 100K views (or more) per video.... (my opinion). I am more than glad to buy Molly some gum.


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

I also like sailboat story they sure are different than the other out there.

I think he takes it differently about the girl in a bikini he kind of makes a joke about it Tambi pushes him away when he lowers the camera kind of cute...

Yes Molly is a cute kid too..
Bob


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I would say the biggest thing with Sailboat Story is no one is exploited


I almost feel that Tambi is part of the joke, like in the editing I think she gets a say in how they are portrayed


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SanderO said:


> ....There are elements of voyeurism, narcissism... information... like travel vids or how to vids. If others want to support these sailors... go for it. Not for me. I would rather give to causes where people really need help.......


I get it, I struggle too. However, none of these objections are really any different that paying for cable or direct TV. Perhaps you don't do that either.

I'm evolving on this one. I started watching youtube and replacing much of my cable TV viewing, because I could watch exactly what interests me and on demand. All TV will adopt that approach eventually.

At first, there was no such thing as Patreon. I was a routine viewer, when it hit the scene. When the first few started asking for money, it made me feel like they were street beggars. I was watching, because I was interested in the the places they were sailing or, in one case, their adventure reminded me of being a kid. However, for commercial purposes, neither were worth paying for. Even worse, in the young kid vid, they were doing a post college graduation sail to the Bahamas and back, before getting on with their careers. When they got back, they no longer wanted careers. Rather, they discovered Patreon and thought they could get donations to buy another boat and do it again. While I really enjoyed their adventure, it was the worst editing ever. Just like the home movies and bad at that. I didn't mind, when they were just kids having an adventure. Once it was for money, it turned me off.

However, there are channels like Delos, that are done very well and obviously take a planned effort well beyond just taking home movies. As far as I'm concerned, they are just like any travel show on TV. Rick Steves has nothing over Delos. If anything, Delos is more real. To date, I prefer to buy a product, like a tee shirt than pay a recurring fee, but I suspect that will change as time passes.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I don't watch TV... Unfortunately the wifey likes to watch idiotic shows and so I pick up the crap without actually watching TV. She adores YouTube as well and watches sort how to's which interest her or thinks like fashion shows or fashion show "exits". We sometimes watch YouTubes when we eat dinner. I think she's watched travel shows and so on TV... professional and sponsors pay the production costs. That's the model I like... I don't want to pay Delos no matter how professional they are. Let them get a commercial sponsor and provide the content for free.

As far as sailing vlogs... I am not terribly interested in them. I suppose for many they replace cruising guides. I was comfortable with the book/reference format. But on the other hand I am not in "discovery sailing mode".

The T&A aspect is seedy and of no or negative appeal. This is how TV and MSM are marketed/work... put pretty people (ladies) to get one's attention. I don't find pretty sales people interesting. When I want to see beautiful (to me) people I watch ballet or dance where there is TALENT as well as beauty... good genes is not a selling point for me or will get my attention (certainly anymore). At a certain age it's not a bad idea to drop some of the juvenile fantasies so many seem to love.

It's pretty clever to sucker people into paying you to produce home movies...on your $400K dollar boat. No... making movies and editing them is NOT hard work... it does require skill and talent and could be boring... Let some producer / sponsor pay you for that... not me. I've lived aboard and sailed 40,000 miles and I don't need to see you fiddling around in paradise discovering how much fun that is... and then expect people to pay you for it. Others want to pay... fine... not me.

Now every cruiser is doing a vlog and after seeing what the vagabound slackers pulled off.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

SanderO said:


> No... making movies and editing them is NOT hard work...


You've obviously never done it...at least not well.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

smackdaddy said:


> You've obviously never done it...at least not well.


I am an architect not a videographer... When I work I could be sitting at the computer for 12 or 14 hrs. I do not consider this hard work.

When I had a woodworking business... THAT could be hard work.. hard PHYSICAL work...

Working on the boat can be hard PHYSICAL work.

I don't consider writing a book, or taking photos or making videos hard work.

No I never made a video. I probably snapped 100,000 pics in my life and never thought of it as hard work.

My brother was a professional photographer and often had to haul around a lot of heavy gear. He had an assistant or two. THAT was hard work. Taking the pics is NOT HARD work.

How about this:

"Overview: The Five Elements of Hard Work

Hard work is but one of the ways you can achieve your goals. For those of us who aren't inordinately wealthy, smart, or lucky, it's the only way. While each person's path to success will be unique, the anatomy of the hard work that they do often looks very similar. For most successful people, the hard work that they put forth included all of the following:

The Drive - This is the motivation, the inspiration, the entire reason you work hard. This is the engine that pushes your efforts forward.

The Plan - If The Drive is the heart of your hard work, then the plan is the skeleton. The plan maps out your course of action and helps plot your progress and keep you on track.

The Grind - The Grind is the point when working hard stops being fun and exciting and starts becoming tedious, stressful and perhaps even discouraging. How you handle the grind is often what separates the winners from the quitters.

The Sacrifice - This is the crux of hard work, and the one thing that makes hard work truly hard. Any ambitious goal requires significant personal sacrifice. Enduring the strain in your relationships, finances and comfort level is the real test.

The Payoff - This is the brass ring. In order for hard work to be worthwhile, you have to define a number of goals and milestones and recognize when you've achieved them. And once you do, you have to up the ante and keep going."


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

That's fine. You can philosophically define work however you want - but you can't categorically say that something you've never done is "NOT hard work". Woodworking is NOT hard (I've done plenty of it) *compared to roofing* (which I've also done quite a bit of). And even built-up roofing in 90+ degree summers is NOT hard work *compared to Alaska crab fishing or Indonesian sulfur mining*...










So you have a pretty narrow and errant view of what's "hard". And that's my point. In fact, your overview applies very well to what's involved with "making movies and editing".

I do a lot of "making movies and editing" - and though it's not sulfur mining, it's still hard work. No question. The difference is, it's pretty fun compared to sulfur mining (and a bit safer).

So you're welcome to pay or not pay and have your opinions, but you're absolutely wrong in your judgement regarding this.


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

SanderO said:


> I am an architect not a videographer... When I work I could be sitting at the computer for 12 or 14 hrs. I do not consider this hard work.
> 
> When I had a woodworking business... THAT could be hard work.. hard PHYSICAL work...
> 
> ...


I think I can respond pretty well here...

I was a UPS guy for many years (32) I started out loading the little brown trucks you know what it really wasn't hard physically was hard mentally. I moved up to a delivery driver again not the hardest physical work but again you were thinking all day long. The once again I moved up to a semi driver that was gravy to me I like to drive two feet of snow or dense fog didn't matter to me.

I took up photography for fun at first then I started to charge I built up quite a nice library of photo's people still buy today, been published in many of the magazines newspapers books billboards tv shows chances are you have seen some of my photo's.

I take photo's every year at the Detroit auto show. OK that is hard work (remember I said being a ups guy wasn't hard work) 
I have to spend about a month of time to get a press pass if I'm doing it freelance or find an editor that will hire me (freelance=$$)

About a week before get the schedules and plan for the new car launches

the day before get everything in order charge batteries etc..

The first day of the show up at 6am drive down there get parking lug my crap in. Remember it's Jan. in Michigan so snow and cold!!!
10-12 hour day, but wait your not done, now you have thousands of images that you need to go thru back home each and every photo you plan on selling needs it's exif data entered. something like this DETROIT MI. North American International Auto show Detroit Michigan Jan. 18th 2018 Ford motor corp announces the New Ford Hypercar claim to get 300 miles on a gallon of gas. then the keywords car, auto, show, gas, economy.....

This goes on for 5 days, remember if you are doing this freelance you haven't made a cent at this point....

I have also done some video work. if you want good then you need to story board brainstorm before even getting the camera out.
The do all the filming many takes different angles b roll.

then I said it earlier it works out to about an hour per minute of finished video.

I always kind of wanted to be a dentist I wouldn't call that hard work either, but you get paid pretty well...

So what does this have to do with youtube?
Those people are doing this freelance for the most part. They produce a video and they hope it will sell itself that's where the money is. I'm sure Delos could sign with a PBS producer and get paid per episode might even be able to land a gig with the history channel (gold mining shows crab fishing shows) But then I wouldn't watch them if they were there.

There's sponsorship going on in the youtube videos from the vacuum to the sails or the whole boat. Depends on the amount of viewers but as little as free stuff to more of a per episode amount.

Times are changing TV is changing

Hard work? maybe not but it's a job and they deserve to be paid to do their job.

Bob


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

SanderO said:


> I am an architect not a videographer... When I work I could be sitting at the computer for 12 or 14 hrs. I do not consider this hard work.
> 
> When I had a woodworking business... THAT could be hard work.. hard PHYSICAL work...
> 
> ...


Not sure I entirely agree physical work is harder than mental work.

I started off my career as a deck hand on chemical tankers, that means tank cleans between every cargo, at sea, in places like the northern Atlantic and gulf of St Lawrence, all weather, 12 months a year, on my hands and knees scraping hardened bunker off the bottom of steam hoses. 12 hours a day 7 days a week. Hard work, yes.

From then my career evolved into a Marine First Responder/ Medic. Hard work, yes, but as physically demanding as job number one, no way, not usually any way. The hard work their is all about keeping your wits about you.

Then came navigating. Hard work yes, not because navigating is hard, but because professional navigators are under pressure to navigate very quickly, in order to reduce time on the water, so the share holders can move more cargo and make more money. No physical effort, but mentally exhausting and stressful.

3 different jobs, all in the same career, all hard work, but only one was routinely very physically demanding, and not so coincidentally, the least stressful and least paid.


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## Proteus Rising (Sep 13, 2017)

Write a book AND publish it and tell us it's not hard work. Create a film and distribute it and tell us it's not hard work. We could sit here all day and say that someone else's job is not work. But, then again, we wouldn't because unless you're walking in those shoes, you can't say for sure. At that point it's just opinion and you know what they say about opinions...


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I guess I only posted half a thought there, the other half of my thought, is I play around with a little bit of YouTube editing for fun, and I find it pretty hard to get a decent video.


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## Skipper Dan (Mar 31, 2017)

cdy said:


> I guess I am old school - and it seems to work for many - but sailing around the world or maybe just the Caribbean and asking others to support you - this works? I would have thought you can always ask but there would not be many who would send you $$ - but I guess many do.
> While I enjoy some of the video's its going to be a cold day in hell when I send a couple of twentysomethings dinero to help them sail around the Pacific in their $300,000 boat.
> 
> I know many do it in a much smaller / less expensive boat - and I can relate better to them, I would still save the money for my own adventure -


BUT, you go to the movies and spend $75.00 or buy a video for $30.00. It's entertainment. Your not paying for their vacation, your paying for entertainment. Why is it OK to pay for some rich actor/actress to vacation in the Caribbean and not some not so rich sailor? a lot of work goes into the videos they make and they do not make that much.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SanderO said:


> ....... I don't want to pay Delos no matter how professional they are. Let them get a commercial sponsor and provide the content for free.


I don't think you would like them sponsored commercially any better. That's the system we have now and content becomes manipulated by the sponsor. E.g. LaVagabonde. Better yet, this new system is giving you the freedom not to pay. A commercially sponsored system is unlikely to.



> The T&A aspect is seedy and of no or negative appeal.


I'm no prude, but I agree. I can't help but feel badly for kids that are exploiting themselves. Most will grow up and regret it. However, I also don't view every person in a swimsuit as T&A. It's a contextual thing and I know when I see it. 



> No... making movies and editing them is NOT hard work... it does require skill and talent and could be boring...


You appended this to mean hard physical work in a latter post. Think about it. For every job you can name, which requires hard physical work, I can name 10 that don't require hard physical labor and pay better. Not sure your point is well made.

I do think they put the hours in and obviously have a product that is in demand.


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## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

SanderO said:


> No... making movies and editing them is NOT hard work..


This is just bull.

Making videos to a professional level is a LOT OF HARD WORK.

It requires things like bringing the boat into the dock, then setting up the camera on a tripod, then taking the boat back OUT of the dock and back IN again to get a shot of the boat docking.

Things like hiking up a steep hill, setting up the camera on a tripod, then hiking back DOWN then BACK UP to get a shot of you hiking up.

It involves climbing to places you wouldn't normally climb to get shots that are needed.

It often involves doing things with one hand when you'd normally have 2, so you can capture things.

It involves carrying around a bunch of equipment you wouldn't normally. Yes, it's lighter than it was 30 years ago, but multiple cameras, tripods and other mounts, as well as spare batteries and memory, maybe even a drone ... these things aren't light.

Sometimes it involves doing the same thing over and over again to try to get a decent angle or reasonable lighting.

And making VLOG-style videos means you can NEVER put the camera down, NEVER have a break, NEVER get away from it ... because it's too important to your livelihood. That ALONE I consider hard work.

If you don't like what they're doing, don't send them any money, or watch their videos, or whatever.

But don't insult their hard work by claiming it's not hard work. Doing so just makes you a jerk.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

The discussion about hard work goes no where. This is a somewhat arbitrary definition.

Sure lugging heavy gear up and down a mount to do some professional stable images IS physical work and it's work I would want to do. 

I equate hard work less with mental challenges and more with physical challenges. I don't see sitting a computer editing as hard work... it's skilled work and it might be boring work. I am not denying it is work.

It looks like these vloggers are enjoying what they do and found a way to document it and get paid for it because people apparently are curious and see some value in these presentations.

How do you value intellectual content? Hell if I know.

I choose what to spend my "entertainment" dollars on. And I'd rather spend $130 for a ticket to an opera, a ballet or a production of hundreds of people who have studied their "art form" for decades... and who do something I can't even come close at doing even poorly... than people who are making travelogues from their sailboats. I've done THAT and lived and cruised for 4 years. I am not interested, for the most part in seeing this.... and even less interested in paying to see it or for these people to produce their content. I expressed my opinion which I am entitled to hold. I am not advocating that the vloggers stop or their supporters cease their support.

I you think I am a jerk for these beliefs so be it. I couldn't care less... especially coming from someone who I likely will never know in any way other than some forum posts. When I give money to people in need I give it to those who are unfortunate and not sailing on $400K yachts in the tropics.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

This comment is to no one in particular, but I enjoy these videos immensely especially in the winter. I appreciate the hard work that goes into them. If I send in $20 I just feel its a token of support, barely more than a ticket to a 3D movie. 

I support what I like, at a low cheap level and voluntarily. The results of this system in encouraging creation of more videos benefits us all so much. I consider them, well a type of artist or writer.


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## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

SanderO said:


> If you think I am a jerk for these beliefs so be it. I couldn't care less... especially coming from someone who I likely will never know in any way other than some forum posts. When I give money to people in need I give it to those who are unfortunate and not sailing on $400K yachts in the tropics.


I didn't say you were a jerk for your beliefs. I said you were a jerk for insulting people by claiming that they don't work hard. I was quite specific.

Apparently you care enough to respond on the forum. So your "couldn't care less" comment is an exaggeration. Unless it's impossible for you to care about something so little that you don't post on the Internet about it.

The fact that you value personal interactions on the Internet less so than in-person interactions makes me wonder what other rules you use to devalue people when you feel it's a useful argument tactic.

The implication that people in need are getting less help because rich people are asking for donations didn't go unnoticed by me. Of course, it's a subtle implication and you will likely respond "That's not what I meant/said" ... but that implication is there, and it's all the more powerful for how well it's hidden.


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

Another way to think of this is just like the music industry.

Write a song.
record a song.
promote a song.

for the consumer.
you can listen to that song on the radio.
you can go see that band live in concert.
you can download, buy a cd.

Same exact thing on youtube.
So will you not go buy a cd for some rich band and support some bum on the corner because you perceive he needs the money more?

Bob


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I am not buying content these days... hardly... CDs, music, movies etc. I see live when I can. I stopped buying newspapers and magazines.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I'm kind of with SO on a few points, but I think for slightly different reasons.

To me, YouTube is and always has been a FREE video sharing app. It gives hobbiest sailors, motorcyclists and shooters a platform to showcase gear, locations and ideas, independent from the influencing effect of commercialisation.

When folks post videos primarily for the money, rather than primarily for the content, it changes the content.

I don't watch many of the big name sailing channels for the most part, because the channels are not primarily about sailing, they are primarily about profit. In my opinion, the sailing channels show casing wealthy kids in their $400 000 boats are an artificial and unattainable version of sailing, and in my opinion, do nothing for the sport, because they give the illusion the sport is something that it isn't.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Sal Paradise said:


> This comment is to no one in particular, but I enjoy these videos immensely especially in the winter. I appreciate the hard work that goes into them. If I send in $20 I just feel its a token of support, barely more than a ticket to a 3D movie.
> 
> I support what I like, at a low cheap level and voluntarily. The results of this system in encouraging creation of more videos benefits us all so much. I consider them, well a type of artist or writer.


I'm with you. I don't begrudge a YT channel just because they might have a bigger boat, crew and have figured out a way to fund their travels with Pateron etc... As long as they provide entertaining and interesting content that keeps my sailing juices flowing over a long cold winter I will throw them a few bucks here and there. So far DELOS is the primary channel for me for multiple reasons. Also knowing their history they did not always have the funds to continue. They ran out of money and had to find jobs for up to a year to fill up the cruising kitty at least twice. So I believe they really appreciate the value of the dollars that come to them.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

It's fabulous that anyone chooses to share their wisdom or experiences for the benefit of others. It's not appealing to me when people are in a sort of show off mode... look what I am doing, did and maybe if you are as smart, lucky, talented (and pretty) as me it can happen to you. There is lots of content up on you tube where the vlogger is not asking for $$ but may be loving the hits for their ego... who knows??? For example wifey watches the French gal Justine Leconte ... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChxkFSjTE7nLCHsDk8_pRhg.. who goes on about all manner of fashion related hints. It FREE and she has almost a quarter million subscribers. Her production costs are lower than getting a super Maramu and sailing off to produce videos... granted. Justine is a fashion designer so she probably makes money from her day job... she does her vlog for other reasons... to SHARE. to HELP and I suppose to AMUSE. Who knows????

And the Justine model is the one that I support...not the La Vagabonde one. Sorry...


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

Get off my lawn!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Opera isn't hard physical work, why would I pay for that? You just stand there and sing, occasionally waddling across the stage. Usually eat too much too. 

Just pulling your leg SO, please don't get your fingers in a huff. I think your preference is more a matter of taste than principles, which is all good.

Having played several instruments as a kid, I took a classical music course in college to expand my horizons. Harpsichord in particular. Today, I would rather watch the worst sailing vlog than sit through the best opera, let alone drop $130 on one. There was a time I tried to like them. No right and wrong here. Cheers.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

SanderO said:


> It's not appealing to me when people are in a sort of show off mode... look what I am doing, did and maybe if you are as smart, lucky, talented (and pretty) as me it can happen to you...


You do realize that's what you're doing right now?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Arcb said:


> I don't watch many of the big name sailing channels for the most part, because the channels are not primarily about sailing, they are primarily about profit. In my opinion, the sailing channels show casing wealthy kids in their $400 000 boats are an artificial and unattainable version of sailing, and in my opinion, do nothing for the sport, because they give the illusion the sport is something that it isn't.


I understand what you're saying here - but the irony is that this completely does NOT describe the most popular of these channels: Sailing La Vagabonde. In fact, it was exactly the opposite.

Their story arc is the *perfect *example of what the sport is...they just became absolutely loved by the public along the way. I certainly won't hold that against them. I carry that same cross. Heh.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

No no, I certainly don't hold it against them, and I wasn't talking about any one show in particular. 

By all means, give money to whom ever you chose.

Its just not how I use YouTube.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

smackdaddy said:


> You do realize that's what you're doing right now?


I am engaging in a discussion... I am not selling myself or something I produced. No comparison.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

SanderO said:


> I am engaging in a discussion... I am not selling myself or something I produced. No comparison.


Sure there is. I specifically clipped the part I was referring to, and it doesn't concern money.

You absolutely are, by very nature of this discussion and forum, "in show off mode" because you are stating opinions and, more specifically, *proclamations* to an internet based audience - just like a Youtuber does.

You post photos of your well-kept boat, talk about how things "should be done", criticize others for how they do/don't do it (making videos is "NOT hard", etc.), wax on about your "refined tastes" (opera and ballet, etc.).

In other words...



> ... look what I am doing, did and maybe if you are as smart, salty, refined, as me you'd understand I'm right...


Definitely "show off mode".

*Now, to be crystal clear - I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this at all Sander.* I don't really care. I can take or leave your opinions just like I can with videos on Youtube.

*You're* the one decrying it as wrong...*while you do it*. Money has nothing to do with that.


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## jppp (Jul 13, 2008)

Random Thoughts.
I saw a mention that Delos is in negotiations with Amel regarding a new boat. Based on the model La Vagabond has used with Outremer. 
The way a monohull moves through the water is magical to me. Big cats....yeah ok their fast. That Super Maramu is a thing of beauty. 
My faves: Delos, Sail Life, Uma. I like the majority and dislike(avoid) others. 
When I was a kid my teacher said, some day TV will come via a cable and you will need to pay for that. I laughed. 
I cut the cable 15 years ago. ROKU baby!! Still paying though.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

smackdaddy said:


> Sure there is. I specifically clipped the part I was referring to, and it doesn't concern money.
> 
> You absolutely are, by very nature of this discussion and forum, "in show off mode" because you are stating opinions and, more specifically, *proclamations* to an internet based audience - just like a Youtuber does.
> 
> ...


I am not decrying it is all wrong... I articulated why I don't watch them and why I don't / wouldn't support the few that I saw (and mentioned)

You have a strange conception of what showing off is if you think people who contribute to online discussion forums are ALL showing off. Some may be, but others NO. Sharing ideas is not SHOWING OFF.... but it is SHOWING others your thinking.

Vloggers ARE trying to attract viewers and viewers who will support them... that seems self evident.

No?


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

jppp said:


> I cut the cable 15 years ago. ROKU baby!! Still paying though.


Beat me to it. I think I cut it off in 2005 or 2006.... Wow, I have saved close to $15,000 dollars on cable tv bills.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

SanderO said:


> Sharing ideas is not SHOWING OFF.... but it is SHOWING others your thinking.
> 
> Vloggers ARE trying to attract viewers and viewers who will support them... that seems self evident.
> 
> No?


Vloggers are simply showing others their thinking (and experiences) too...just like you're doing here. One of the big differences is that vlogging is, without question, FAR harder work than posting in forums. I have quite a bit of experience to know that for a fact.

As for "attracting viewers and viewers who will support them" - same thing. Internet forum debates are exactly this...just without the Patreon angle. It's about philosophical support/validation (or the opposite or even just attention) - not financial support. Even so, I've made money with my forum opinions (e.g. - writing an article for Cruising World, doing product reviews, etc.).

So to your question - no. They are very much the same thing, just with slightly different dynamics. One is not "better" or somehow "morally superior" to another as you are trying to imply.

So I'll leave it there. This was just an important issue to me because I am a forum poster, writer, vlogger, etc. I think I've made my point.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

SanderO said:


> Vloggers ARE trying to attract viewers and viewers who will support them...


Some times, but not necessarily.

Think of it like a pot luck dinner.

I bring the dhaal, Johan brings the naan, Mary brings the line chaffon, Diana brings the samosas, Tony and Tina had a fire in their kitchen, so they didn't bring anything and Macs a rotten cook but showed up with a case of beer.

If I had eaten alone, I'd have nothing but dhaal, but because of the potluck format, I get a great meal and conversation to boot.

Now if Raphael shows up with turkey and says, I want $2 a plate for my turkey, it kind of changes the Dynamics of the pot luck, especially if their are some vegetarians in the group.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with selling turkey, by all means, open a restaurant and sell turkey. If I want turkey, I might even come and buy some, but our relationship is now customer and vendor, rather than pals at a potluck.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Here's a great example of vlogging with a different vibe than just "lifestyle"...










Levi does a great job with TropicalTidbits (as good as Chris Parker as far as I'm concerned - though definitely more generalized) and provides very valuable information regarding threatening weather.

See the Patreon and Paypal buttons? All the social icons? Is he seeking "attention" and "viewers who will support him"? Of course he is. Does hard work go into his videos and info? Absolutely.

Will you support him with your dollars? Or is he just another "sponging vlogger"?


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I don't know if many here have heard of Malcolm Gladwell? I've read his books and just recently watched some interviews.

When it comes to work v not work, he suggests you need 10,000 hours of doing something to be a master of it.... I disagree with this to a degree, if you have some ancillary experience, it will play into your hours. Like if you were a photographer for 3,000 hours, that adds into your videography hours.

I think it would be safe to say, that the hours put in have to be quality hours. I have taken more than 10,000 photos....but only about a third of those did I put in any quality time... That is to say, you can just snap a lot of pictures and you will improve, some, but not as much if you are thinking about what you are doing, working on composition, tone, lighting, etc.

When you watch some video channels, it is clear that it is improving because the creators are working hard to improve it.

One of the things Gladwell points out, people are more likely to get mastery *IF* you enjoy it, more so than say if you have a natural talent. Because if you like doing something, you are more likely to do it.

Of course, there are a lot of audience members who don't care about mastery (regardless of the medium). Some of the best-edited videos have few views...

If you go to the Sailing-Channels and look at the most viewed, most times there is a certain _babes in bikini_ aspect to them. And in each channel, if you look at the thumbnail of each, the highest view is likely to have a bikini woman in it.

It has been pointed out those who are making videos to make a profit have a different tone to them than if you are just making videos so your friends know you are okay.

As far as work, everything you don't like to do will be work.. but if you love what you are doing, would be willing to pay someone to do it, it won't be work.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Daddy your opinion is certainly a but influenced because you have skin in the game as they say. I would hardly expect you to think patreon and supported vlogging is anything but good. But that's OK... everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Regardless of the production values I am not one to watch vlogs and will not support other people's cruising financially...

Over and out.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

SanderO said:


> Daddy your opinion is certainly a but influenced because you have skin in the game as they say. I would hardly expect you to think patreon and supported vlogging is anything but good.


I've not argued that financially supported vlogging is "good". I've just countered your earlier proclamation that it's somehow "bad" (showing off, narcissistic, egotistical, etc.) or "easy" (not hard work, not worth people's money, etc.).

It's neither of those.


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## clippi (Sep 20, 2015)

cdy said:


> I guess I am old school - and it seems to work for many - but sailing around the world or maybe just the Caribbean and asking others to support you - this works? I would have thought you can always ask but there would not be many who would send you $$ - but I guess many do.
> 
> While I enjoy some of the video's its going to be a cold day in hell when I send a couple of twentysomethings dinero to help them sail around the Pacific in their $300,000 boat.
> 
> I know many do it in a much smaller / less expensive boat - and I can relate better to them, I would still save the money for my own adventure -


Yea, I'd say chalk it up to "the old days" thinking. If you ever watched Rick Steeves on PBS or any other assorted travel show, you were supporting the same type of programming. How expensive do you imagine it was to haul around a big camera crew and fly all over the world? Trust me, most people who vlog, don't make money. It's the rare few that find an audience. So instead of PBS or NBC paying them, the cord cutters pay them directly. It's just the 2017 version.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

clippi said:


> Yea, I'd say chalk it up to "the old days" thinking. If you ever watched Rick Steeves on PBS or any other assorted travel show, you were supporting the same type of programming. How expensive do you imagine it was to haul around a big camera crew and fly all over the world? Trust me, most people who vlog, don't make money. It's the rare few that find an audience. So instead of PBS or NBC paying them, the cord cutters pay them directly. It's just the 2017 version.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Advertisers ultimately pay Rick Steves... not viewers. Crowdfunding is recent and exists because of the web. One question is why do these people make their vlogs available on the web? Motives range from sharing information with concerned friends.... to making a living while cruising. Escaping the hum drum is not something many can do because it requires capital to get and equip a boat and then money for food/clothing and maintenance/repairs and fees. Living aboard is usually much less expensive than living on dirt.... but unless you set off with an stash or have and income from investments... you need to make money to "live/cruise". Some did work along the way... mechanical repairs, waiting tables when in port... even making pizza... or just living aboard and having an otherwise normal job ashore.

Selling content you create over the web is a model that seems to work for some... who selling their "adventure" to people who want to peek and pay. And apparently many do for whatever reason. How many can actually make a living selling almost the same content? I suppose a lot if the content is varied enough. For technical information... printed guides may be more complete and reliable but obviously not real time. Maybe cruising guide published will move to a web based model sort of like active captain but with vetted material. I suppose echart companies probably have modules to add to their charts with these sorts of data or they will soon... And these conceivably are more robust, more reliable, less entertainment and viewed on the plotter or connected mobile device.

Of course people like to be entertained and this format of episodes is a well established hook... tune in for the next episode of Housewives of the Caribbean!


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## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

SanderO said:


> Advertisers ultimately pay Rick Steves... not viewers.


I'm not familiar with Rick Steves, specifically, but I grew up around PBS ...

And PBS was _NOT_ funded purely by advertisers. It was funded by a combination of government grants, "sponsors" (which are essentially advertisers) and the general public. PBS frequently had funding drives when the sponsors or the grants weren't sufficient, and these funding drives would sometimes pre-empt hours and hours of content. (I haven't watched PBS in years, so I don't know if that funding model still exists). Overall, it doesn't seem terribly different than the current youtube model, and I seem to remember the PBS content usually being higher quality than the network content. (I seriously doubt if a mainstream network could have brought us Bob Ross)

Overall, this is an annoying pattern to your posts: they are frequently exaggerated, misleading, or outright false. I'm unsure why this is the case, but it's pretty much the sole drive perpetuating this thread -- despite the fact that you keep _claiming_ that you're done discussing the topic.

Personally, I'd like to drop it, but you keep bringing up points that I feel require clarification ... such as this PBS comment.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

one person can'[t have a discussion but the vlog- patreon thing is an interesting topic. I stated my views too many times already.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I agree, the PBS reference was ironic. It points to exactly the same model. A few interested viewers pay and the rest watch for free. Been around a long, long time. 

One fact that is often missing from the vlogs is where they got the capital to buy their boat. Delos and SLV both described theirs, which was to live cheap, work hard and stash the money. Delos also took a mortgage thinking they could cruise for two years, then would have to go home. They started the "buy us a beer" link and it took off. Why not.

There are many others, however, where the capital is not too clear. However, these are generally far from six figure boats too. Inheritances maybe? There is one where I think he sold his business (Drake Paragon), but still has to live cheap to make it work. His boat is probably worth well under six figures. Another, is a couple of young kids (Out Chasing Stars) on what looks like a brand new 44ft Catamaran. $500K maybe more? Curious. 

Still, this doesn't make the vlogs uninteresting or condemnable.


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

youtube is a place where people share information weather it be stupid humor, diy, reviews, travel, lifestyle or just entertainment. Just cable tv. comedy central, hgtv, travel channel, lifetime, or hbo.

The difference is in order to watch cable you need to pay in advance for the access to watch them.

YouTube you don't need pay anything if you don't want to.

So let's say Delos decides that the youtube model no longer works for them and signs a contract with the discovery channel. To keep the numbers the same say discovery pays them 50 per episode. 

Now would you still be putting them down for making money off their cruising lifestyle?

In order for me to throw a few bucks anybody's way I have to like the people in the video, and feel they provide useful information.

Forums are the same thing I think also.
There's a forum for pretty much anything that interests you and quite a few forums have donation buttons also plus just look to the right ad's!!!

New world's a coming!!!

Bob


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

These sailing vblogs and You Tube videos look an awful like family home movies from the 60’s and 70’s. Sure, they are updated with better cameras, sound and editing but they are essentially the same content. Might be interesting for family members but for me, as John Q Public, not so much. There are perhaps only a couple of minutes of content I want to see in a 20 minute video. I do scroll ahead, but frankly, I wait through more buffering than actually viewing content. Those annoying pop up ads are painful enough. It just adds insult to injury that I have to suffer through five minutes of panhandling at their end. Sorry, it must be just me, but I find them painfully boring for the most part so consequently, I don’t subscribe and would never pay money for the privilege.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I am interested on how people can so easily make a sweeping generalization about sailing vlogs.

To say they are all like family movies.. either indicates you haven't seen many.

I would even say that the vlogs that are home movies for the family back home are generally much better than most home movies from the 1970's. Mainly because people in today's videos are aware of what it is like to be in a 'home movie'

There is no fault in that those making home movies in the 70's and 60's were a) very new to home motion pictures (i.e. more used to using still photography with Instamatics.

A more apt comparison would but pubic access telivision in the 80's into the 90's but even there the content and understand of how to use the video media is a high level now adays. much of that has to do with access. If you have a smartphone and iMovie (or other video editing program) you have had the ability to make lots of videos for the past few years.

Probably better than the 60's tv show Flipper and at times a better story line.

Like I mentioned with Gladwell, vloggers are better today because they have lots more practice. I don't know for a fact, but I suspect the average vlogger has watched more 'movies' in their time, than any 20 home video artists from 30 years ago.

Add to it, there is various music that can be added.. it just is a better product.

Yes there are bad videos, bad camera men/women, bad editors and certainly bad actors... but generally speaking many of the sailing videos you will find on the Sailing Channel is as good as the average MTV reality tv show from 30 years ago (Real World, Road Rules, and I am sure there were others).

THe most unfortunate thing about the current videos is how much they make use of the 'Confessional' that reality tv uses. I don't get it, sailors in the middle of paradise and they sit in the cabin talking to a camera. I am not sure why they haven't figured out how to do voice-overs.

The thing that appears to stand out a lot with current videos is then they seem to have a better understanding of marketing (or bikinis in the thumbnail) they do of editing.

I do think there is a nasty trend for vloggers to make commercials in an attempt to sell something, instead of making art

speaking of which, my point about bikini babes is the point of the lastest Ambient Real Life






In the end though... quality isn't want appeals to me. I would watch home movies from Andy Warhol's Studio. Not because of quality, but for kicks and the characters involved. Most of the vloggs I watch, I like the people. My guess most donations go to people that the donors would like to meet and quite likely receive a good bit of communication from the creators.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

I think one of the best examples of how much work a vlog is can be found in the latest chapter of Sail Life. I'm hooked on Mads and his restoration of Athena. I've learned an enormous amount from watching him, and I've even been inspired to start and finish a couple of projects for my own boat. But other than some cheerily goofy "special effects" that Mads had created for his video (dancing screws!), I didn't really think much about how the creation of the video affected his ability to do the actual work involved. 

But at the end of the latest chapter of his vlog, Mads included some outtakes. Most of the videos begin with a shot from the interior shed where the work is taking place, with Mads walking through the door with a cheery "Gooooood morning Guys". But there were at least five aborted tries that Mads did where he screwed up his "lines" walking through the door. That broke the spell and got me thinking about how many of the other shots required similar set up, and how much time it must take him to set up the shot, make the action in the scene look good, check it all, then move on to the next. I went back and looked at how many different camera angles and shots there were in the video, how much Mads talked to the camera, and how he got the lighting right, etc. I came to the conclusion that Mads would undoubtedly be done with his project if it weren't for the impacts of shooting a video on his work. Then again, maybe he couldn't afford the material and work space if it weren't for the video....

I don't watch the "bikinis in paradise" videos much; this is the internet after all, and there are plenty of sources for that. And I don't really find watching others' vacations or cruises to be terribly interesting. I've tried Delos and Vagabond, but they don't do much for me. The only one even remotely similar that I like is White Spot Pirates. I was initially intrigued by the premise, and her refit of Karl was classic. And the video quality is excellent. I remember a bit of a kerfuffle here on Sailnet as to whether she was on the up and up, but she has since taken great pains to be transparent about how the videos are not in real time (although several of her most recent videos were live streams; I especially like the Panama Canal transit series). I've become invested her in trip, and I may even be on the verge of throwing her a few bucks.

The only other videos I watch regularly are Mads at Sail Life, and a relatively new entry, Abandon Comfort. AC has it's ups and downs; the couple at its center are attractive (although it's not a bikini-fest like Delos), but they speak "millennial" a bit too much for my taste. Nevertheless, they are trying to make a serious "how to give up your shorebound life and sail away" vlog. So far, I'm still watching.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> ...
> 
> I wish Donna, her Dragon and the other Mods would rsad the comments and see how Easy we go on the idiots who do similar posts/requests here. ...


Believe me, we (Leif and I) know. I'm a comments junky. Often it's the first section I read in the online newspapers, YouTube, etc. Sometimes the comments are more educational than the article they responded to. Some are just downright funny.

In the past when the mods have come across posts from people who only registered in order to promote their for profit vlogs, and especially those claiming to use the money for questionable charitable purposes (like the folks sailing the world to introduce poetry to those uneducated natives living on remote islands), we typically let the OP see how his or her idea is being viewed by the people from whom they're requesting money.


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

Arcb said:


> Some times, but not necessarily.
> 
> Think of it like a pot luck dinner.
> 
> ...


Good analogy...but not good enough. What is really happening (in all but a few cases) is Raphael is showing up with a slightly more expensive organic turkey and still dishing it out for free, but then inviting people to a) send a note to the organic turkey farm so they can get the turkey cheaper next time and b) chip in to the pot if they feel so inclined so they can have organic turkey more often. In some cases people actually insist that they should be able to contribute...organic turkeys are expensive and hard to get after all...and we all like to be good guests.

There is always a racket in our money-oriented, capitalistic society (don't get me wrong, I'm all in on making money)... play some "free" games on your smart phone-some of the best design psychological manipulation I have ever seen. Sure not everyone pays, but enough do to make it a multi-million dollar industry.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

There is nothing wrong with home movies. It’s just that they have limited appeal and IMHO, do not elevate themselves to warrant a fee to watch. We also do home movies and damn high-quality ones if I say so myself. But I wouldn’t require you to pay me for the privilege of viewing them (but I’m beginning to rethink this – what are you doing after Thanksgiving this year?) No, I haven’t seen every sailing vblog (I bore too easily). Perhaps someone can recommend a good one (I tried the Delos one last night and was not that impressed). I do find the ones from clueless sailors passing themselves off as seasoned salts somewhat entertaining (what happened to that “Union Pacific” guy in Florida?). Perhaps it because I do a lot of sailing that I don’t need to live vicariously through others. And I definitly don't need to watch somebody chopping onions underway -I do that in my own boat.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

GeorgeB said:


> ...I do find the ones from clueless sailors passing themselves off as seasoned salts somewhat entertaining (what happened to that "Union Pacific" guy in Florida?). ...


I think UP decided that SN wasn't biting. Soon after he started posting links to his YouTube videos here and receiving less than a warm reception, I noticed he turned up on the Seven Seas Cruising Association's FB group page posting links there to people with far more sea miles than him. Most didn't take to him. A few discovered his web site filled with less than tolerant nonsense shall I say and called him out on it.

I don't think UP was trying to pass himself off as a saltier than he was, but he was like someone at a second grade reading level trying to teach an English professor how to read and pronouncing many of the words wrong.

If you miss him he pops up on the various FB sailing groups fairly regularly.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

MacBlaze said:


> Good analogy...but not good enough. What is really happening (in all but a few cases) is Raphael is showing up with a slightly more expensive organic turkey and still dishing it out for free, but then inviting people to a) send a note to the organic turkey farm so they can get the turkey cheaper next time and b) chip in to the pot if they feel so inclined so they can have organic turkey more often. In some cases people actually insist that they should be able to contribute...organic turkeys are expensive and hard to get after all...and we all like to be good guests.
> 
> There is always a racket in our money-oriented, capitalistic society (don't get me wrong, I'm all in on making money)... play some "free" games on your smart phone-some of the best design psychological manipulation I have ever seen. Sure not everyone pays, but enough do to make it a multi-million dollar industry.


Nailed it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I like the idea that we are returning to small decentralized entertainment. Hollywood and the big networks were both getting out of control and creating a false celebrity. Actors and news/morning anchors are only paid tens of millions of dollars, because of the monopoly that allows for an economy of scale. For every one of them, there are hundreds behind them that are equally talented. Some, even more so. There is just not enough bandwidth to get them all on the air in the networks and cable stations alone. 

Matt Lauer is paid $28 million per year to blather for a couple of hours each morning. It's exhibit A in what's wrong with our current media system. He's simply not personally that good. He gets that money, because he's one of a few. I would rather a system that allowed 280 people on YouTube to make $100 grand each (making a point, not trying to be specific with the numbers).


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Arcb said:


> Some times, but not necessarily.
> 
> Think of it like a pot luck dinner.
> 
> ...


I get what you are saying, but if Raphael puts out a donation tray, and he tells you to get the mushrooms for the turkey that taste amazingly good it cost him $70 an ounce... so he actually paid 3x for his contribution than you? (it is kind of an askewed analogy for sure) What I don't get, did you also make a video or just the food...;-)

I say this, never paying anyone patreon dollars, but I have paypal-ed some funds.... for videos that I felt made my life a little better.

I think of the videos, many times, like my co-worker who dropped a popcorn brochure on me today. For (her words not mine) "overpriced popcorn" I do it because I like the co-worker and her son the first time wrote me a thank you note (probably also her words), not because I liked the popcorn all that much. The times I donated was more because: a) I liked the people making the video; b) and it was not bad of a video.

On the other hand, there are some I am clueless how they have any patreon donors. One guy, gets nearly $900 a video. In a recent vid he pointed out how he spent $1,000 on sangria; he also mentioned he pays the bikini babes 10% of that, on top of free, food and drinks; and if you pay attention, probably is from a wealthy family and possibly gets disability

Another irony of paying folks... many of these vloggers get patreon dollars, but also give other sailors patreon dollars


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I liked that Coast Life chipped in on the conversation. It is good to hear the people using patreon give a perspective

One thing I noticed is that those who use Youtube really don't make much money off of it, something like a penny or less a view. But it appears that you need to use Youtube to get the patreon dollars.

Sailing Gecko decided they were not going to post videos on Youtube, and depend on Patreon and Vimeo. The would post a 'commercial' for the videos. That lasted a month. My guess not only did they lose lots of viewers, but also some patreon dollars.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

YouTube is owned by Google and I will bet will buy Patreon at some point. I'm surprised they haven't already. 

I'm not fully clear on this but I think the big difference between YouTube and Vimeo is copyright. I think you give up all right, when you post on YouTube, or something similar to that concept. Vimeo protects the creator. I also think Vimeo allows for higher definition videos. Someone should clear this up, as I'm not sure.

However, YouTube has the marketshare, so a creator has little choice but to use YT, if they are looking for volume.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> YouTube is owned by Google and I will bet will buy Patreon at some point. I'm surprised they haven't already.
> 
> I'm not fully clear on this but I think the big difference between YouTube and Vimeo is copyright. I think you give up all right, when you post on YouTube, or something similar to that concept. Vimeo protects the creator. I also think Vimeo allows for higher definition videos. Someone should clear this up, as I'm not sure.
> 
> However, YouTube has the marketshare, so a creator has little choice but to use YT, if they are looking for volume.


When Google dropped it's "Do no Evil" slogan you knew things had changed at the company. I've got a love/hate relationship with them and other social media Goliath's like Facebook. They have a history of bait and switch with their users. For example they announced with big fanfare how they have created a Royalty Free Music library that their creators could use to enhance their videos. A nice gesture to help the Content Creaters who provide the product that Google/YT makes money off of. Then at some point they announced (without much fanfare) Oh by the way if you use any of our Royalty Free Music the Content Creaters who do will no longer get ANY revenue from the ads that run on their videos but, Google will keep running ads though and pocketing all the revenue. Pretty slick bait and switch.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I agree that Google, while an incredible tech innovator, is missing a chromosome in their integrity gene.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

mbianka said:


> When Google dropped it's "Do no Evil" slogan you knew things had changed at the company. I've got a love/hate relationship with them and other social media Goliath's like Facebook. They have a history of bait and switch with their users. For example they announced with big fanfare how they have created a Royalty Free Music library that their creators could use to enhance their videos. A nice gesture to help the Content Creaters who provide the product that Google/YT makes money off of. Then at some point they announced (without much fanfare) Oh by the way if you use any of our Royalty Free Music the Content Creaters who do will no longer get ANY revenue from the ads that run on their videos but, Google will keep running ads though and pocketing all the revenue. Pretty slick bait and switch.


Where did you get that info?










I use their RF music and make dope kaching off my glorified home videos.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

smackdaddy said:


> Where did you get that info?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting I can't seem to find that specific music terms policy now. Then again I also can't find the music I used in this video from their Free Library like I originally did: 



 Maybe it has it's policy has changed since then. I'll keep looking.

But, I did find this recent change in monitization policy:
https://socialblade.com/blog/youtube-removes-monetization-ypp/
"Any channels that have less than 10,000 lifetime public views - including those partnered with MCNs - will not see advertisements run against their content, even if the content still appears monetized within the Video Manager. Once a channel has crossed the requirement threshold, it will be automatically reviewed, and monetization privileges will be reinstated provided the channel is compliant with all of YouTube's policies."

Looks like another hoop YT Content Creaters have to go through before they will get any cash from out of the Google Vaults.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I have over 10K views on my channel, but I was scoring dope kaching before that. So I don't think that's a cut-and-dried policy. 

As for the music, I have run into issues where free songs from their library are changed down the road in terms of usage rights. And your audio will be disabled if you don't fix it - or they will turn off your monetization if you don't fix it as well. So you do have to be careful to make sure you're using completely royalty free music. That song of yours sure doesn't sound like the stuff in the Youtube RF library. It sounds like a gospel quartet or something.

In any case, you really shouldn't be making Google out to be pure evil when the facts are wrong. I've certainly not had any real issues with them. You just have to learn how to do it right.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

smackdaddy said:


> As for the music, I have run into issues where free songs from their library are changed down the road in terms of usage rights. And your audio will be disabled if you don't fix it - or they will turn off your monetization if you don't fix it as well. So you do have to be careful to make sure you're using completely royalty free music. That song of yours sure doesn't sound like the stuff in the Youtube RF library. It sounds like a gospel quartet or something.


I agree but, I got it that piece from the You Tube Royalty Free Music library. So one would think it was good to go and use in a video. Changing the game after people have edited and posted their videos just seems a little unfair.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

mbianka said:


> I agree but, I got it that piece from the You Tube Royalty Free Music library. So one would think it was good to go and use in a video. Changing the game after people have edited and posted their videos just seems a little unfair.


That I agree with. It does suck to suddenly have your video flagged after all was good before that. But I think that's more on the providers than on YouTube/Google. I've found that most of the time it's those pieces of music where attribution is required. I just stay away from those now and haven't had problems since.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

smackdaddy said:


> That I agree with. It does suck to suddenly have your video flagged after all was good before that. But I think that's more on the providers than on YouTube/Google. I've found that most of the time it's those pieces of music where attribution is required. I just stay away from those now and haven't had problems since.


Me too. Bought a catalog of RF music that I can use as needed.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

Minnewaska said:


> I like the idea that we are returning to small decentralized entertainment. Hollywood and the big networks were both getting out of control and creating a false celebrity.


Boy, that sure is the truth. And I hate the scramble they feel compelled to do to boost ratings and viewership. I hate the commercials that say, "Next week on Chicago Fire: The most shocking episode you have seen!" We used to like ER, but they announced the "most surprising episode you have ever seen" so many times that it got boring.

Cable TV dramas are as bad.They just keep writing more and more violent, sexual, or outrageous content to boost attention and buzz.

I met the very smart, sincere and conscientious author of the Orange is the New Black book, Piper Kerman. Her book was a very insightful look into how she, as a privileged young white women, made a series of bad decisions and ended up in prison where she had her eyes opened to the misery of many of the people in there. She became a prison activist to advocate for the many people she met in prison, who didn't have the benefits that she enjoyed, like good family support, parents who could pay for her to have adequate legal representation. She uses some of the profits from her book and the HBO series to fund her support of less fortunate prisoners.

The first season of Orange is the New Black told a partly accurate story of life in a women's federal prison. She said that the HBO producers chose to depict way more sexual activity than she said ever actually occurred where she was housed. Now the series has gone on for five years and has become more and more sensational and less realistic.

I saw the same thing happen with House of Cards. After a while I got tired of tuning in to see who murdered who each week.

Then it happened on Shameless in later seasons. I get the impression that some of these shows are written by recent graduates of some screen writing program and they sit around each week, like a bunch of college kids, saying, "What can we write this week that will be really outrageous and will have people buzzing over Twitter? Ooo, Oooo, Ooooo, I have a crazy idea. Let's....."


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

My Grandmother and her sister were a singing/dancing act that accompanied a big band on the Vaudeville circuit in the late 20s and early 30s. We have a steamer trunk full of posters, newspaper articles, etc. We also have her financial records, where she was generally paid $300 for two days of shows. That was usually two nights and a mantinee. In today's dollars that would be about $4k. However, she had to work more than one city per week and travel the entire country, not just sit in a news anchors seat or make a single movie. My Grandmother and Aunt toured for about 6 years and then they split to get married and have families. I would say their back breaking entertainment schedule made them a few hundred thousand per year in today's dollars. There were literally dozens, if not hundreds, of acts just like them that toured the country at the time. I like that youtube seems to be recreating that possibility. You still have to be good at what you do.

Fun fact, when they hung up their dancing shoes they were replaced in the act by the Andrews Sisters. Of course, that was before they hit it big during WWII.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Minnewaska said:


> YouTube is owned by Google and I will bet will buy Patreon at some point. I'm surprised they haven't already.
> 
> I'm not fully clear on this but I think the big difference between YouTube and Vimeo is copyright. I think you give up all right, when you post on YouTube, or something similar to that concept. Vimeo protects the creator. I also think Vimeo allows for higher definition videos. Someone should clear this up, as I'm not sure.
> 
> *However, YouTube has the marketshare, so a creator has little choice but to use YT, if they are looking for volume.*


I believe the 'do no evil,' has been replaced with "what works for us, works for us"

One of the best and worse things about google, is they come up with innovated things and then drop them. I suspect the things they keep are the things they make a lot of money off of... and drop what doesn't really generate revenue.

Or they buy innovated businesses, cut out the fun, to increase the profit.

If they were to buy patreon, I wonder what the mark up would be. Usually the creators don't complain too much about the precentage take that patreon gets, but I imagine that is because youtube pays so little that even if Patreon took 10%, it is better than a fraction of a penny on every view.

One of the problems with all new media, is they tend to base themselves on the model they are replacing.

Movies kind of started out with recording plays, TV started out showing a lot of old movies. Netflix kind of imitates both

Since TV has ad revenue based on audience share, youtube does the same... and they are indifferent to quality. So a really well put together sailing video that is 10 minutes long, probably makes way less than a 20 second video of a panda sneeze.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

mbianka said:


> "Any channels that have less than 10,000 lifetime public views - including those partnered with MCNs - will not see advertisements run against their content, even if the content still appears monetized within the Video Manager. Once a channel has crossed the requirement threshold, it will be automatically reviewed, and monetization privileges will be reinstated provided the channel is compliant with all of YouTube's policies."


I don't think you are wrong about this; straight from AdSense help: https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/72857?hl=en

I have read this is to weed out folks who create bogus channels to repost other peoples contents. I think google wants advertising on peoples sites, because they get about half the revenue.


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## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

titustiger27 said:


> If they were to buy patreon, I wonder what the mark up would be. Usually the creators don't complain too much about the precentage take that patreon gets, but I imagine that is because youtube pays so little that even if Patreon took 10%, it is better than a fraction of a penny on every view.


One of the great things about Patreon is that it's such a simple setup. There are already a number of competing services. So far, it seems that Patreon stays on top by begin _good_.

If anyone were to purchase them and start jacking up the cut, I suspect they'd lose a lot of customers to the other services, and it's possible that even more companies might see it as worthwhile to present an offering. I have considered making a similar service, but it just doesn't seem worth the effort given the amount of competition already in place.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

BillMoran said:


> One of the great things about Patreon is that it's such a simple setup. There are already a number of competing services. So far, it seems that Patreon stays on top by begin _good_.
> 
> If anyone were to purchase them and start jacking up the cut, I suspect they'd lose a lot of customers to the other services, and it's possible that even more companies might see it as worthwhile to present an offering. I have considered making a similar service, but it just doesn't seem worth the effort given the amount of competition already in place.


I don't disagree, but I am not sure this is true.

For one, it seems youtube has kind of not jacked the price, but cut the profit creators can make and I've seen people (lazy gecko) go to them and come back within a month.. I suspect they like the viewership that youtube gets them.

As far as patreon, if you were using that service and changed, you have to wonder how many people ($$$) you would use


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

midwesterner said:


> ....sit around each week, like a bunch of college kids, saying, "What can we write this week that will be really outrageous and will have people buzzing over Twitter? Ooo, Oooo, Ooooo, I have a crazy idea. Let's....."


I agree.
I don't think they have a real handle on what their product should be.
They don't understand sensible limits and go too far...then eventually killing it.
I see that in sports.
Everything is over hyped. It's all over-promoted.
Once they pass real, they just run it on out until the numbers are bad....and insert another one....


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

We all need to be clear about this: what makes Youtube (and Vimeo) their money isn't ads — it's data. They are both in the business (indeed it has really been the business model for Google from day one) of collecting and selling data. It is ridiculous how much they know about us both individually and as aggregate statistics. Every time we watch a video they get another data point they can either use themselves of sell on to others.

The money they pay on to creators or the nature of who owns what rights falls under the category of subsidiary activities. Nice to have, but separate from their primary income stream. This is a fact of the digital world; ebooks, Netflix, Apple Music, Spotify, they are all moving towards the same business model. I recently had a book publisher tell me that their predicted commodity of the future wasn't content but readership data.

But what the hell. I like sailing videos and they can do with that information what they want.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Remember back when we could and did turn off the cookies on. When the consumer actually had some control of life?

I don't like giving up my data, but I do it... and while I have yet to see how it is used yet, I now wear this band around my wrist that tracks my every step --- and where. That I up load to a web page.. .so I can see that _'I am exercising'_

And remember the sci/fi prediction we would have a chip inserted into our skin...

While I can tell myself I am using a fake name, they know where I work, where I live... and much in between, which I guess wouldn't be that much different than the folks who have a smartphone with them every moment of the day


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

titustiger27 said:


> While I can tell myself I am using a fake name, they know where I work, where I live... and much in between, which I guess wouldn't be that much different than the folks who have a smartphone with them every moment of the day


I traveled to Washington DC last Friday. When I opened my Facebook page I got this message:

"_"Mike, welcome to Washington
Check in and let your friends know you're here"_

This Facebook surveillance is getting creepy. At least the NSA does not try to tell you what to do.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

mbianka said:


> I traveled to Washington DC last Friday. When I opened my Facebook page I got this message:
> 
> "_"Mike, welcome to Washington
> Check in and let your friends know you're here"_
> ...


One has to wonder who likes that?

I haven't noticed of late, but a couple years ago google ad sense kept displaying women's platform shoes in the ad space. Since I am or wasn't a stripper (that kind of shoe) I was glad that google's profile of me did not match up.

In your case, what is the next step, do you get notices or coupons from DC businesses, that now know you are in town?


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## BillMoran (Oct 1, 2016)

titustiger27 said:


> I don't disagree, but I am not sure this is true.
> 
> For one, it seems youtube has kind of not jacked the price, but cut the profit creators can make and I've seen people (lazy gecko) go to them and come back within a month.. I suspect they like the viewership that youtube gets them.
> 
> As far as patreon, if you were using that service and changed, you have to wonder how many people ($$$) you would use


It's hard to be sure, of course, but I don't feel like youtube and Patreon are the same type of service. In the end, all youtube is and will ever be is videos, whereas Patreon can support any type of creation (and it does support music, comics, and other things as well)

Youtube is also currently locked into an advertising revenue model that people are constantly claiming is antiquated and can not survive much longer. It's arguable that their low payouts are not the fault of youtube so much as the fault of the failed advertising revenue model.

One thing that hasn't come up in discussion is sponsorship. I see a lot of youtubers trying to hop on this train. What I don't know is how many of them actually understand how to do it well (i.e. how many of them have studied Reeces+ET and Pepsi+Twister?) Simple product placement isn't terribly effective, products have to be carefully positioned to create an emotional response on the part of the viewer. Of course, you could argue that the videos are no longer honest travelogues at that point, but we've already had the discussion about how much of what happens is staged anyway.

Personally, I find it bizarre when people try to say they love or hate youtubers. For me, it's impossible to group them all into a single category. So many of them are doing terrible work, while there are others doing truly brilliant stuff. It's fun (to me) to watch the whole thing evolve. Mads Dahlke is one of the best examples I can think of ... watch one of his early videos and one of his newer ones back to back to see what I mean. Lots of them exhibit this growth and change, though. It's entertaining to me to watch, not only the individual players, but the evolution of the media as a whole. It's pretty difficult to predict what it will be like in ten or twenty years.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

titustiger27 said:


> One has to wonder who likes that?
> 
> I haven't noticed of late, but a couple years ago google ad sense kept displaying women's platform shoes in the ad space. Since I am or wasn't a stripper (that kind of shoe) I was glad that google's profile of me did not match up.
> 
> In your case, what is the next step, do you get notices or coupons from DC businesses, that now know you are in town?


Did not notice any DC store ads. But, I never pay attention to the ads usually. But, on inspection they are for the firm that I ordered some mail order prescription glasses from recently. But, I only used Google and my email when dealing with the firm. It would be a strange coincidence that Facebook knows I placed that order. But, maybe they do.


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

not strange at all. It's called cookies.

try this search for something on google, baseball bats, gloves, cleats.... then watch to see what ad's are served to you.

Bob


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

BillMoran said:


> It's hard to be sure, of course, but I don't feel like youtube and Patreon are the same type of service. In the end, all youtube is and will ever be is videos, whereas Patreon can support any type of creation (and it does support music, comics, and other things as well)
> 
> Youtube is also currently locked into an advertising revenue model that people are constantly claiming is antiquated and can not survive much longer. It's arguable that their low payouts are not the fault of youtube so much as the fault of the failed advertising revenue model.
> 
> Personally, I find it bizarre when people try to say they love or hate youtubers. For me, it's impossible to group them all into a single category. So many of them are doing terrible work, while there are others doing truly brilliant stuff. It's fun (to me) to watch the whole thing evolve. Mads Dahlke is one of the best examples I can think of ... watch one of his early videos and one of his newer ones back to back to see what I mean. Lots of them exhibit this growth and change, though. It's entertaining to me to watch, not only the individual players, but the evolution of the media as a whole. It's pretty difficult to predict what it will be like in ten or twenty years.


One of the more useful things on You Tube is some of the amateur "How To" videos. I saved a lot of bucks watching a geeky teenager in his garage in England clean a carburetor on a Briggs and stratten lawnmower engine. Kid never asked for money but, I would have thrown him a few if he did since it saved me some.


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## AJC506 (Nov 3, 2016)

snokid said:


> not strange at all. It's called cookies.
> 
> try this search for something on google, baseball bats, gloves, cleats.... then watch to see what ad's are served to you.
> 
> Bob


It's more insidious, I mean tailored marketing these days.
Not how many apps want you to have location services turned on. Facebook has done this for a while.
Noticing it more on Google with notifications of "Other people have taken photos at this McDonald's...."
I can turn FB location services off. Harder with Big G if you want to use maps.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

I don't have FB installed on my phone too many notifications for my liking!!! Heck I hardly use FB anyways (big time waster)

But

Think about it a different way.
You own a sail supply store in a out of the way place. How do you get know by sailors? word of mouth sure. But you could also hire a marketing company to increase sales. One tactic they may use is targeted location based ads. You as the business owner have to pay for each view of your ad. Do you want me in Michigan seeing your ad if your business is in Florida?

Makes perfect sense to only pay for ads say in a 100 mile radius.

A lot of people get up in arms about it, but in reality they work otherwise they would stop that model.

Bob


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

BillMoran said:


> It's hard to be sure, of course, but I don't feel like youtube and Patreon are the same type of service. In the end, all youtube is and will ever be is videos, whereas Patreon can support any type of creation (and it does support music, comics, and other things as well)
> 
> Youtube is also currently locked into an advertising revenue model that people are constantly claiming is antiquated and can not survive much longer. It's arguable that their low payouts are not the fault of youtube so much as the fault of the failed advertising revenue model.
> 
> ...


I like Mads, but not as much as you. Mainly because his video is a 'how to' of late and about something I don't want to how to. It is almost disappointing... he got his other boat remodeled and I thought, Okay, some sailing.. with the boat he fixed and now he is onto another boat. I still watch it, because he is still entertaining... especially with a budding love interest.

I'm more a Sailboat Story, because I think Ben is a great video maker. He makes the kind of videos that you could watch with the sound off. I also like that he is experimenting. I am sure that is a turn off because sometimes the experiments aren't as good as others, but he is great.

I also like mediocre videos... Coast Life is that to me, they don't do much that is interesting with the video.. and while they respond to most of the comments not all... but he looks like the Ghoul to me and has a funny enough stick.

Youtube is, as you point out a video sharing platform, but it could have been more streaming (but google prefers hangouts) and it could be other and experimental, but if you follow many experimental aspects of video, they are more likely to be on Vimeo. I think what makes your comment about youtube only being a one trick pony, is the fact that that is what google wants it to be. And, as you point out, locked into aadvertising revenue model, which -- again -- is what google wants and profits off of.

It could be a video editing platform.. or a number of other things.

I disagree with you when it comes to product placement. I see youtube doing a lot of it, either to brag about what drone it uses or their camera equipment. Or they will often ask a company to donate an item, could be an anchor (coast life) or SUP (SV Prism) and then they work it into their dialog, many as a thank you for the free product.

The part I bold printed I find to be a problem with life in general. I am very liberal, but I know there are democrats who are crooks, but if you look at most people they are all dems or republicans are one way or another.

To say you don't like youtube, is likely because you haven't given it a chance or looked for what appeals to you. I see a bit of that in a skewed way with Miss Lonestar.. either people think the woman is sexy, or disreputible and can't get past that, if she has a decent channel or not. Myself, I think it is entertaining, but so inconsistent that you can't say it is good or bad.

And some of all this comes down to what you like or want. If it is babes in bikinis you really don't care about the editing or sound, if you want to learn how to fiberglass a boat... you have different take aways.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

mbianka said:


> Did not notice any DC store ads. But, I never pay attention to the ads usually. But, on inspection they are for the firm that I ordered some mail order prescription glasses from recently. But, I only used Google and my email when dealing with the firm. It would be a strange coincidence that Facebook knows I placed that order. But, maybe they do.


I read something that Facebook has a way to track you, even if you don't log in or have an account.

I do think if you are using chrome (as I do) there is a lot of your data being harvested (I use ad block, but I think there is a lot of capturing going on.

Not to mention (and not to sound like a conspiracy theorist) who knows how much google and facebook share with each other... and if not sharing, buy from each other...


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

snokid said:


> I don't have FB installed on my phone too many notifications for my liking!!! Heck I hardly use FB anyways (big time waster)
> 
> But
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if it is a question of if it works. Sure.

Fake news .. the real fake news works too (or why would russia be buying ads)

I think the talking point is is it right.. Sure it is legal because the lobbyist wrote the laws to make it legal.

But is it right or moral to invade people's privacy so you can seel them something... in an almost clinical way.

I have used the example of Golf on Sundays is or was a losing game as far as numbers of viewers, but the demographic that did watch it were ripe for havesting... and often bought Cadillacs... the sponsor.

But that is a generalization compared to what is being done with the internet.

I read that in the future door to door political canvassers will walk neighborhoods with iPads, filled with information about each house.

So they now some houses are a complete waste of time... but others if you talk about how 'your' candidate feels about gun control, you will get that person vote, as long as you don't mention abortion or how your candidate wants to move the age you can collect social security to age 68.

With computers and data crunch and algorithms it is near, or actually, evil what will be done in the future.. and perhaps even right now


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

But is it right or moral to invade people's privacy so you can seel them something... in an almost clinical way.


if you want privacy you can have it. Give up that cellphone or go back to a tracphone. don't use apps. have 2 computers one for surfing, one for paying bills, or other times you use your real name/address. Don't forget the foil hat either.

Cadillac figured out a bunch of old rich guy's watch golf on sunday and that's who buys their cars. So who cares? should they try selling diapers during golf?

Right now as I type this i'm getting an ad for "my free medicare notebook" sailnet makes money serving me that ad and god forbid it's something I need/want and I click it sailnet makes more money. So what's the harm?

Nothing to do with big brother watching, it's business trying to help their bottom line, plain and simple....

Bob


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

titustiger27 said:


> I read something that Facebook has a way to track you, even if you don't log in or have an account.
> 
> I do think if you are using chrome (as I do) there is a lot of your data being harvested (I use ad block, but I think there is a lot of capturing going on.
> 
> Not to mention (and not to sound like a conspiracy theorist) who knows how much google and facebook share with each other... and if not sharing, buy from each other...


I had Chrome on a perfectly good laptop computer until Google decided they would not be supporting it on the VISTA platform any more. Oh well time to buy another computer. I think this might be computer number ten or eleven since 1980. I don't want to add up the total cost of them.  
Sometimes I look at Google, Facebook and Amazon as the digital Axis of Evil. Maybe add Apple and Microsoft to the list too  But, so far the benefits out weigh my concerns. Frustration levels have decreased somewhat over the years too. But, we seem to be moving closer to the THX 1138 model these days. Even my WIFI connected scale wished me a happy birthday a few months ago.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

This is where I totally disagree

It's not just immoral to take advantage of a person's privacy, but contrary to the premise of how our way of life was set up in 1776.

In my mind, it is search and seizure when you have not and perhaps never will commit a crime. Maybe for some, this doesn't matter, for me my privacy is part of my pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness. Of course, American freedoms should not be considered something to do with morality.*

I don't think (regardless of how fine the print is or how many lobbyists came up with it) buying a camera, computer, cellphone, refrigerator gives a company the right to your personal activities.

Someday you won't be able to buy an automobile that doesn't track your movements. Okay, you can't own a car because you don't want your data tracked.

I mentioned how you used to be able to install a browser, then it was made very difficult to know how to do that, and now I don't believe you have that choice.

Just as I think it is immoral to sell someone a product (cigaret ) you know will kill them and pretend it is their fault for buying the product.

*
_The First Amendment protects the privacy of beliefs
The Fourth Amendment protects privacy against unreasonable searches
The Fifth Amendment protects against self-incrimination, which in turn protects the privacy of personal information
The Ninth Amendment says that the "enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage other rights retained by the people." This has been interpreted as justification for broadly reading the Bill of Rights to protect privacy in ways not specifically provided in the first eight amendments._


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

This privacy thing you are talking about you still can have, it's your choice no one is making you give it up, period....
but the privacy that you are talking about boils down to walking down the street and your phone knowing your at starbucks....Or google knowing you searched for whiskey. This isn't a government issue at all. (not saying the government doesn't track you thou...)

search and seizure doesn't apply here also, the government isn't going into your phone looking to see what you googled (they do spy on people hoping to avoid terrorism which I don't like)

buying a new device alone doesn't give the company any information, you need to take steps to allow the company to have your information. Go buy a new computer don't connect to the internet no one knows where your at.... One exception is a car that could be used to track someone without signing up for anything.

you still can choose what browser to install/use very simple to download and install....

Picking on smokers is easy. So lets say all the ads stopped tomorrow do you think even one person is going to quit because they didn't see an ad?
Plenty of items are sold everyday that could and do kill people if you took them all off the market there wouldn't be much left. sailboats kill people, skateboards, bikes, lawnmowers, houses, cars, gum, soda.... Yet those evil companies still sell those things that kill people to the market!!!

Bob


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

See what you did, you left out morality

And you didn't address my points. For example: cigarettes, I didn't question the legality, I questioned the morality and the lies.

I love irony and your post.

so on to other things

_as long as we don't live in reality, we can have grandeur _


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

mbianka said:


> I had Chrome on a perfectly good laptop computer until Google decided they would not be supporting it on the VISTA platform any more. Oh well time to buy another computer. I think this might be computer number ten or eleven since 1980. I don't want to add up the total cost of them.
> Sometimes I look at Google, Facebook and Amazon as the digital Axis of Evil. Maybe add Apple and Microsoft to the list too  But, so far the benefits out weigh my concerns. Frustration levels have decreased somewhat over the years too. But, we seem to be moving closer to the THX 1138 model these days. Even my WIFI connected scale wished me a happy birthday a few months ago.


I think we have had a similar computer track. I started with a Kaypro back in the early 80's. Part of the reason I bought it was I wanted a word processor, which back then you could by a fancy typewriter that was only for word processing

Then I was on BBS and with a Model 100, programming in Basic I created an on line poetry magazine (basically just ascii).

Even while doing that, or even in the early 90's when the internet was mainly FTP. I never envisioned close to what it is today.

"Information wants to be free"

I also thought privacy was a foregone conclusion.

Now I see that "Information is what you trade for lack of privacy"


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

titustiger27 said:


> See what you did, you left out morality
> 
> And you didn't address my points. For example: cigarettes, I didn't question the legality, I questioned the morality and the lies.
> 
> ...


Morals? really we are talking about corps. stock holders, investors... You are staying on the cigarettes fine. Let's just say camel all of a sudden decides that it's not worth the hassle to sell them. What do you think smokers are going to do? quit?

What do you want them to say that hasn't been said already? if you buy a pack it's all over the thing it will kill you.

Now I was a truck driver before I retired 6 months ago. I can tell you what kills more people than smoking and almost nobody is doing or admitting it.... CELLPHONES!!! I saw a report a while ago it's killing more people than drunk driving by a factor of 12. But where is the outrage? How come Verizon is still selling these killing devices? where are their morals? Sitting up in the cab of my truck at night easily 6 out of 10 cars that passed me where playing with their phones, checking facebook, playing games, texting.... In my thirty some years of driving I saw plenty of people killed drunk, weather, stupid, drugs.... But I know for a fact in the last 5 years or so I saw more dead from cellphones than I saw the first 25 years I was driving combined.

ok enough off topic.

back to watching those good looking girls on boats!!!!

Bob


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

RegisteredUser said:


> I agree.
> I don't think they have a real handle on what their product should be.
> They don't understand sensible limits and go too far...then eventually killing it.
> I see that in sports.
> ...


And there seem to be so many people today who are lazy and want to be entertained without having to think much. And they want to be wowed with outrageous stuff. This is why programs like _Extreme Naked Bachelor Survivor_ in Paradise end up being the most watched programs, while intelligently written dramas get cancelled part way through a season. The rest of us get held as broadcast TV hostages by the escapist viewers.


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

LOL there's naked girls on tv? where have I been?

Think of it this way you are in a room with 10 people 9 of those people want to watch naked teens running around and 1 guy want's to watch Sally getting her first apartment while Joe tried to convince her to marry him. What do you think the tv will be tuned to in that room?

Now you are in charge of revenue for the network where would you target your money?

That's what's good about youtube and alike. If I want to watch bowling and you want to watch golf, and Joe down the street wants to watch knitting, it's all there for everyone.

If you want to be able to watch bowling and support the channel that producing it, you can give them some support, but the great thing is if you don't want to give that support you don't have to either..

Bob


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

snokid said:


> LOL there's naked girls on tv? where have I been?
> You haven't seen Naked Survivor or Naked and Afraid?
> 
> That's what's good about youtube and alike. If I want to watch bowling and you want to watch golf, and Joe down the street wants to watch knitting, it's all there for everyone.
> ...


But you can't watch season 8 of West Wing. You can't watch the 7th season of Downton Abbey. You can't watch American Crime or Chicago Justice.

But you can watch American Game Night, Ninja Warrior, Celebrity Family Feud, Bachelor in Paradise and Candy Crush the TV show.

I understand how capitalism works. I'm just frustrated that I live in a world where people like me are out numbered by people who want to watch the Housewives of Wherever, snipe viciously at each other.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I just watched a couple of Wicked Salty's new vids. I'd forgotten how much I like his editing style. He's really good.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

When you are doing killer editing and work to post vids of your shopping, cleaning, and boat reviewing of 'Benetaws'...you need viewers that into 'you'.
That's what they are....'them doing their thing'.
It's not a sailing/cruising vid series...it's a them series.


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## -OvO- (Dec 31, 2011)

I don't understand why the T&A stuff sells. It's always blurred out anyhow! The people who tune in to sailing vlogs to see the blurry boubies are like the pimply twelve-year olds who used to watch scrambled cable tv just hoping that the scrambling would part for one glorious second and expose some nudity. Except that was a hundred years ago when you couldn't just get whatever kind of REAL porn you want in ten seconds and a Bing search. 

So what's the attraction here? Maybe it's that "these are real girls, not paid performers (hence, maybe perhaps possibly available to a schlub like me? Fap fap fap)". Me, I just find it a depressing reminder I'm not 22 anymore. And I'm waiting for the bikini vlogs to start offering their patrons exclusive access to raw versions of their videos. It's inevitable. "Subscribe at the Lecher Level, and you can see Candi's *real* nipples, with NO BLUR!". It just goes even more downhill from there.

Oh hell, if you can't beat 'em... Anybody want to go into business with me? The trick to winning a race to the bottom is to get there first.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

-OvO- said:


> I don't understand why the T&A stuff sells. It's always blurred out anyhow! The people who tune in to sailing vlogs to see the blurry boubies are like the pimply twelve-year olds who used to watch scrambled cable tv just hoping that the scrambling would part for one glorious second and expose some nudity. Except that was a hundred years ago when you couldn't just get whatever kind of REAL porn you want in ten seconds and a Bing search. * * snip * * .


I wonder about this myself, but I have a theory, that has several points

• non-single guys like to get titillated but not want to have pornhub in their browser history for their wives/girlfriend/boyfriend/etc to find 
• alibi = I was looking at the sailing
• I really think most men, as much as they might like porn, like real women. In most of the t&a videos the women are not just eye-candy, but women who are part of the video and part of the adventure.

So while the videos are visually enjoyable, they are scenarios that many enjoy.

Often when vlogs with a dominant woman are asked questions, it is often -- how do I get my wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/etc interested in sailing. So if you are going to fantasy about a life of sailing with a significant other, you might lean to a fairly attractive s.o.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I've seen two kinds of nudity on these blogs. It's all blocked out, of course. 

There is the tease, the don't you wish you could see more approach. That's been going in for centuries, long before vlogs. I find the sailing sites that do this to be fairly immature.

Then there is the display of how distant they are from social norms. Being dressed is not innate. It can serve as protection from injury, temperature or the sun, but not being naked in front of others is invented. It's not my thing, but this display doesn't bother me. 

Some, however, are making more reference to ganja. Sometimes directly, others more veiled. To each their own, but I find the culture around this to be veryn different from alcohol. Turns me off.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I thought I'd wake up this thread. I'm interested in comparing notes on some of the currently active vlogs out there. YouTube is getting saturated with sailing stuff, so there's no way to keep up with them all. I tend to follow 3 or 4, and they change over time as I lose interest (in most) and move on to others. Here are a few that are trending in various directions for me (and why):

*Wicked Salty*
https://www.youtube.com/user/WickedSaltySailors/videos
Wes and Kate are friends of a good buddy of mine, though I've never met them. I've followed them for a couple years, and looking forward to seeing how things go with their new boat. Nice kids who are very down to earth and honest about their weaknesses and sharing what they learn.

Trending steady for me, will trend up when they get more active with posting.

*Sailing Shaggy Seas*
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP6uWk_FdIqJA8cWH_XwYfQ/videos
The dog thing hooked me in at first, since we just got a puppy and I'm looking for more tips for sailing with a dog. I really like these guys. He quit a job working at a chemical plant in TX, and she quit a job teaching music and art. As a chemical engineer and musician, I appreciated that. I am totally impressed by her mechanical skills on the boat - fully an equal partner with her husband in all aspects of cruising.

Trending up for me.

*Shaun and Julia Sailing*
https://www.youtube.com/user/donjobs/videos
Another young couple that I stumbled across. I haven't gone back to look at all their past videos, but the recent ones keep my interest. He's a little bit nerdy at times, but in a likeable way (speaking as a nerd myself). She's a real hoot.

Trending up for me.

*Sailing Miss Lone Star*
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvC6orAapK1PAj9k84mVohA/videos
I've watched this trainwreck in slow motion for a couple years. I'll admit I was initially hooked by the gorgeous woman, but she has continually gotten annoying, in the high-maintenance way that gorgeous women often get annoying. I'll give her credit that she got a direlect boat from Bohemia Bay to New England, though I think she really took a stupid risk in doing so with her daughter onboard. She apparently talked some guy into watching her boat for the winter and fled to South Africa, claiming that she'll return in the spring. I wonder if she's ever going to go back. Her vlog seems to be a lot more about "me me me" and less about sailing. I think she's a drifting free spirit who doesn't really want any responsibility, but still wants her Youtube/Patreon bucks.

Trending down, but I still check in every few weeks to see whether she's screwed up even more.

*Sailing Nervous*
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4x5ZeAGz8Z_k0TzQO6fYIQ/videos
I wanted to like them, since they're in a similar place in life to us, and apparently live in Lancaster or Chester County. Their "nervousness" was endearing at first, but it's getting a little annoying now. And it bothers me seeing them do some really stupid stuff (like installing a little inverter to run a 1500 watt electric heater), and then saying "comment below on what you think." How about researching things a little bit before wasting your money (or burning down your boat)? I also don't like that they take tiny bits of information and paint with a huge brush stroke as if they're experts ("Don't ever buy a Catalina because our friend told us about the Catalina smile," or something like that.) They're up to episode 138 and just sailed their own boat for the first time. I'll tell you that I'm also really annoyed that he makes his wife do all the "heavy lifting" on the boat while he only stands behind the wheel. Pulling up the anchor? She does it. Winching up the main? She does it. Trimming the sheets? She does it. Change the oil? She does it (IIRC). I'm all for being equal partners, but he seems to me to have it a little out of balance on some of the more undesirable things.

Trending down for me, but I'll keep watching for awhile because of the trainwreck effect, since I'm curious to see if they ever get into the ocean. I am rooting for them, but skeptical about the realities.

*Sailing Doodles*
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkDwexrF43p_1QurfKFBCBA/videos
I initially subscribed because of the dog thing, and I'm still watching to try to figure out this guy who seems to have something a little off balance. His eyes just scream "crazy." I haven't gone back over all his past videos, but I guess he lost a boat in a hurricane (and also lost his girlfriend? ...but with no explanation), but found someone to lend him another boat to deliver across the Pacific. Somewhere, also without explanation, he picked up girl to join him, but I really wonder if she'll ditch him before heading offshore (which is part of what keeps me watching). Depending on your point of view, she can be seen as a lot of fun, or a hollow plastic bimbo party girl. I'm not sure yet whether to feel sorry for her, or to think they deserve each other. I may be dreaming, but I really wonder what sort of baggage he is carrying from his past life. One image is burned permanently in my head, and that's this scene here. Who is the unhappy blonde in this picture? His friend? His sister? His ex-wife? Regardless of who it is, would you walk out to fly to Thailand without so much as looking up to say, "Bye, thanks for watching the dogs?" I realize it probably was staged anyway, but still, it just (fairly or unfairly) reinforces my impressions of this guy:






Trending steady, likely to trend down fast.

I know I'm being awfully judgmental here, but I find it impossible to watch these vlogs without "reading between the lines" about the people in them. That's what people get for putting their lives "out there".


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## sailforlife (Sep 14, 2016)

My fav Channel on youtube is sailing UMA by far. Also sailife is a good channel. 

:2 boat::2 boat:


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

It is fascinating to see how many new sailing channels have sprouted. It's good to be among the first to market, such as s/v Delos. I don't have time to watch several with the same travel/sailing focus, so I've whittled it down to just them and have little interest exploring further now. I've really enjoyed seeing Namibia, St Helena and Ascension recently. Although, I am interested to see Cruising LeaLea get their boat back together and hit the high seas again. Having been stuck in Alaska, they don't post much. I watch many other interests now too (Airplanes, engineering, Ted talks, physics, comedy, cooking). I've also dabbled in a little magic tutorial and, of all things, blacksmithing. Don't ask me why on these last two, I've never been an aficionado of either. The mix is probably a sign of psychosis.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I watched Delos and La Vagabonde for a few weeks, but lost interest fast. Not sure why, maybe they seemed too commercial. 

I also watched Uma quite a bit when they first started, but lost interest after a couple months. Not sure why. 

I really like Drake, because his blend of sailing, maintenance, and tourism is great. I’m not watching but want to get back to it. So why not? I’m a little bothered that his videos have fallen so far behind real time. I prefer when a weather system in the video is something we experienced in the recent past, and would like to know that a restaurant he visited is still in business. I sometimes use some of these videos to check out future destinations (London/Reykjavík in a few weeks).


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> ....I really like Drake, because his blend of sailing, maintenance, and tourism is great. I'm not watching but want to get back to it. So why not? I'm a little bothered that his videos have fallen so far behind real time......


I gave Drake a lot of feedback on this point. I think it annoyed him a little. He's since adopted a model that his Patreon contributors get closer near time footage. Clever idea, but it didn't hook me. I unsubscribed instead.

I fully agree on the broad mix of experience in his vids. However, they are excruciatingly long and detailed. I've seen multiple episodes cover a single day ashore. It's like every glass of milk, comes with the history of the cow. He needs better content editing, but I think is focused on film quality and documenting every move.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> ...I've seen multiple episodes cover a single day ashore. It's like every glass of milk, comes with the history of the cow. He needs better content editing, but I think is focused on film quality and documenting every move.


Which, I suspect, is why he's fallen so far behind real-time.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

I recently found and am liking How To Sail Oceans a fellow named Kevin Boothby has a fairly new Vlog (2017). No bikinis, no doey eyed females. Just a solo sailor who is currently sailing his 32 foot engineless sailboat between the Caribbean and the U.S. He discusses his techniques and his sailing philosophy while making such passages. With discussions of weather, climbing masts, choosing and setting sails, etc...


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

TakeFive said:


> I thought I'd wake up this thread. I'm interested in comparing notes on some of the currently active vlogs out there. YouTube is getting saturated with sailing stuff, so there's no way to keep up with them all. I tend to follow 3 or 4, and they change over time as I lose interest (in most) and move on to others. Here are a few that are trending in various directions for me (and why):
> 
> *Wicked Salty*.
> 
> ...


great review, I disagree on some, but still a good assessment.

I came over here after watching the latest Sailing doodoo els posting of a hangout. In general, I dislike them and few of them have (like this one) have I been able to watch the whole thing with about five questions being asked every 10 minutes and the hosts answering them so you feel like you are in a crazy Cheech and Chong "Where's Dave" loop

I have long believed that it would be fun to have a channel or blog that reviews sailing blogs like this.

Lately, I have been thinking a satirical one. Have you ever heard Studio 360 with Kurt Andersen? Andersen used to co-edit 'Spy Magazine' It was kind of a gossip magazine with a satirical (and mean) sense to it.

In that hangout video 'bobby' whines about how youtube is treating him and cheating out of $50, then revealing his video's (alone) earn him $1500 a month (which is added to the $1,092 per video he gets).

I guess the whole time he is whining those who are commenting kept saying (during the live feed) "but you are on a boat with a woman in a bikini"

I don't mind people making money off of various things... but there is some annoyance in the guy complaining about it... If you are trying to see me - be it hedge funds or to be a patreon for your vlog -- you aren't getting me interested.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

TakeFive said:


> Which, I suspect, is why he's fallen so far behind real-time.


Well, thing with editing is it's really easy to condense an entire voyage down into 10 minutes. Then what is next week's video about? Detail is great if it's detail about a place or subject you are extremely interested in...but one time I think it was the better part of two months of videos just sitting at anchor in Boston. I kinda check in now and then when they are actually making a passage. I've mostly just wanted to see the Greenland stuff...Prince Christian Sound is on my list...but I've been wating what? 3 years? And they're still in North America.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

Also, lesser known channels of note:

Sailorama (_true_ shoe string cruising with very appealing videography style)

Acorn to Arabella (building, from the basic extremes of felling their own trees, milling their own lumber, and pouring their own keel, an Ingrid 38)

Erik Aanderaa (single-handed sailor, masochist, wannabe viking, expert drone pilot)

Sampson Boat Company (exceptionally talented English boat builder restoring [rebuilding] a 100 year old gaff cutter in Washington to be sailed back to England)


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I had the pleasure of meeting Drake and Mo the summer we left on our own trip. They are great people who I consider good friends.

What I think most critics forget is the very title of his channel: "Real Cruising Life". Drake tells the story in a day-to-day timeline fashion...because that's exactly how cruising life unfolds. If you're at anchor for a few weeks - there's a story there...being on the boat, working on the boat, walking around your destination, etc. It's the story of what it's like to be on the hook in a place for several weeks. These are all real events that various viewers find more or less interesting depending on their tastes. But it's exactly what it's like out there.

Because of this, the pace of the videos is slow because it's pretty meticulous storytelling. I personally like it a lot because you get to know them and the lifestyle very intimately.

Their channel is like sailing itself. If you want things to hurry and "keep up" - you've chosen to pursue the wrong kind of lifestyle and you're definitely on the wrong kind of boat.

Relax and enjoy the ride - and the story.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Clearly, there is a niche that isn't bored with Drake's videos. That's good. I sure wouldn't equate watch a long video with a long sail.

DrakeParagon (28,032 subscribers) avg 5k-10k views per vid.

Sailing SV Delos (249,333 subscribers) avg 100k-200k views per vid. 

Simple. If he's not interested in viewership increases, he's on the right path.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

To be fair, if Drake wants Delos numbers, what he needs is to head for the tropics and find a half dozen 20-something hotties willing to strip naked and flounce around the boat in front of cameras. Its pretty clear what drives views. That Drake gets as much traffic as he does considering the lack of nubile flesh on display is actually remarkable.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I have seen an episode or three of all of the channels mentioned above.

Two others that I have watched were Abandon Comfort and RAN Sailing. 
Abandon Comfort (55K subscribers) is two twenty-somethings that bought a leaky HR 352, and are re-fitting it. I was interested in their delivery sail across the Okeechobee Waterway, as I am planning the same trip. However, they hired a "captain" to help them make the delivery, but the "captain" had no sailing knowledge, and they suffered several unnecessary mishaps during the delivery. For the fall of 2017 they took a road trip through the US and Canada, and bought a dog. They're a cute couple, and I believe that he's ex-Coast Guard, but they started out with no clue about sailing. 
I've grown tired of their road trip, and a couple of the episodes are them sailing with friends. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on joining their Patreons. 
I've *un*subscribed.


RAN Sailing (46K subscribers) is a Sweedish couple that started their channel in Sweeden (in a snow storm) and are heading to/through the Caribbean and Panama Canal. The camera work and editing are excellent, and I am really impressed that these two narrate all their videos in English. They both speak several languages (Sweedish, English, Spanish, French...). For me they really have found the right mix of travel log, sailing log, occasional but never-ending maintenance, and living aboard. They have a couple of meet-up videos (Sailing Uma and Salty Dog) too. They politely thank their Patreons at the end of each video, but it is not annoying. I recommend it.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Agreed herli - RAN is one of the best all-round channels out there. Definitely one of my very favorites.


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

Like TakeFive I come and go on some channels. Some of the newer ones I am test driving:

*Walde Sailing:* Typical Young couple buys a boat sell everything etc. These guys are are on BCs coast so that interests me and they are pretty personable so they keep me coming back. They meant to head to Mexico immediately but got stuck in BC for the winter so that's a "twist".

*Sailing Chuffed:* She's a vet and they sail around Panama and Costa Rica in a rickety old boat dispensing free vet services. Fun videos and I really like the premise. Supposedly most of the Patreon money goes to vet supplies.

*Sailing Vessel Adventurer:* These guys left our stomping grounds in the PNW a couple of years ago and are heading south. They have been touring Mexico since they left - apparently because this guy has a real thing for "the best tacos in Mexico." He seems to find them everywhere.  Typical travelogue but I like the style and hope to follow in his footsteps someday.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

smackdaddy said:


> I had the pleasure of meeting Drake and Mo the summer we left on our own trip. They are great people who I consider good friends.
> 
> What I think most critics forget is the very title of his channel: "Real Cruising Life". Drake tells the story in a day-to-day timeline fashion...because that's exactly how cruising life unfolds. If you're at anchor for a few weeks - there's a story there...being on the boat, working on the boat, walking around your destination, etc. It's the story of what it's like to be on the hook in a place for several weeks. These are all real events that various viewers find more or less interesting depending on their tastes. But it's exactly what it's like out there.
> 
> ...


Quite right. I enjoy both watching Delos and Drake over the winter. Drakes detail is interesting and helpful. For example finding out there is no potable water dockside in St. John's Newfoundland. I was as surprised as they were. You need to have it delivered by truck or tote the water yourself. Which they did to top off the tanks before heading for Greenland. Real cruising life indeed. I was getting tired just watching them lug the two five gallon jugs several blocks from the laundry. Glad it was them and not me for a change.  I also liked their planning to get to Greenland. They engaged other cruisers who have been their to gain some local knowledge. A good idea. I also like to see how they Delos and How To Sail Oceans deal with weather planning. I more interested in warmer waters but, still find Drakes cruise very interesting.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

RAN is a good team. They look at things seriously..together. It might be fun to see them drunk/tipsy...

How To SO has a good head on his shoulders. Seems very stable...stays ahead of what could come next.

The kid on Drake puts ketchup on grilled cheese. Might be illegal where they're sailing...just wrong. I wish they had visited St Pierre and Miquelon.


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## ThereYouAre (Sep 21, 2016)

My favorite sailing channels is the Volvo Ocean Race. I look forward to seeing each daily episode when I get home form work. Some other channels I haven't seen mentioned are:
My Classic Boat : Mostly older wooden boats in the UK.
World Sailing Show : Yacht Racing
World Sailing TV : More yacht racing
Keep Turning Left : Old bloke on a 4 knot **** box sailing around the UK. Makes for great 'Slow TV'. 
Salt&Tar : A young couple building a wooden boat
Gone with the Wynns : A couple on a cat starting their circumnavigation. This is your pretty standard attractive couple on a boat stuff but they do it better than most.
Tips From a Shipwright : More boat building
Boatworks Today : Professional builder / restorer of boats.
Maryland School of Sailing : Pretty much all the topics you expect to be covered in a sailing school.

Of the channels already mentioned I watch Delos , Acorn to Arabella, Sampson Boat Co, and Sail Life.

I've also been watching a lot of 'Eric Dodson" videos of late. Mostly existential philosophy for dummies.


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## Skyeterrier (Feb 11, 2016)

I seem to be drawn to those sailing vlogs that aren't real big with the cheesecake but are really more about sailing.

I really seem to like those where the sailor(s) don't start out with a ton of knowledge or a really fancy boat, I seem to identify with those. A prime example is SailingWithAndy:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbXaFRujGjeeiKNopifPh9Q

I like Andy's approach. Super friendly guy and always responds to questions/comments on YouTube. He started out around Seattle, got his boat, and then got sailing experience including increasingly long trips around Vancouver Island and to Alaska, then the big hops to Hawaii and around Asia.

His Cape Dory 30 is now for sale (in Kuala Lumpur, unfortunately) and he said he's hanging up his spurs for now and going to be a landlubber for a while.

I like Erik the crazy Norwegian guy's channel, he's really talented getting dramatic drone footage in particular, but I think he has realized that plumbing the same stretch of the Atlantic from his home port to Shetland wasn't going to maintain interest over the longer term so he has to strike out to other destinations. The "no ******** just sailing" thing is kind of two edged.

Of the big name channels I suppose I like Delos the best of the one's I've seen, seem like likeable blokes and there is quite a bit of interesting sailing and boat content to go with the eye candy.

Miss Lone Star is kind of a guilty pleasure. I peek in from time to time really for the train wreck factor. Can't really abide prolonged exposure though. There was one video however where she and the South African dude who I guess is her boyfriend now talked at length about the various odd jobs and ways to earn a buck while out cruising (unrelated to online hustling of Patreons and YouTube marks lol) and I actually liked that, it was rather "real".


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Thought to go check in on SV Delos and LaVagabond patreon pages. Noticed something interesting. We've discussed that Delos has pulled ahead in total dollars per vid, while SLV used to have the lead. This seemed to change around the time SLV made their Outremer deal, but I don't follow these stats closely and haven't figure out how to check history. However, they both have roughly the same number of contributors, Delos just has more per donor. 

The entry point for SLV is $3 per vid, then goes to $5. Delos entry point is $5. Price elasticity on these popular channels is fascinating. I suppose, once you've established a brand, especially a market leader brand, you can raise prices. 

I don't think they fully take in the per vid amount each week, as Patreon allows the donor to set a monthly maximum contribution. However, Delos is pretty consistent at a weekly vid now. Pushing $700, per year, if you ignore the monthly mins. Really impressive, especially for a sailing channel. I wonder how long it can last. Does the fad burn out? Doubt it. Does it go more commercial? Seems that's not working as well as SLV and Outremer might have hoped. The biggest question for a business like this is how do you provide for succession? I think part of what keeps them fresh is they rotate visitors. What happens when the boat owners want to "retire" from the vid business. Could be it just ends in a thud, like Seinfeld going into reruns. The real trick is to figure out a succession plan........ ie a spin off.

I think I like following this new business model as much as the vids. I was not a big fan of the tin cup (patreon) when it first hit the scene. I still don't like the idea of young kids avoiding life and asking for others to fund their play. But some have become mature businesses, with price levels, promotions, rotating cast, new set locations and are fascinating.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Another interesting (to me) fun fact. Both Delos and SLV were in the top ten of Patreon pages in the 2016, when they each had 1/10th the number of patrons they have now. In early 2018, with 10 times more patrons, neither are in the top 50 in number of patrons, but they do bring in as much money as those in the top 50 do. The top of the pile is now bringing in $94,000 per month, with 21,000 patrons.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

Wow. Patreon's cut is only 5%. I'd figured they were taking a bigger bite.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> Another interesting (to me) fun fact. Both Delos and SLV were in the top ten of Patreon pages in the 2016, when they each had 1/10th the number of patrons they have now. In early 2018, with 10 times more patrons, neither are in the top 50 in number of patrons, but they do bring in as much money as those in the top 50 do. The top of the pile is now bringing in $94,000 per month, with 21,000 patrons.


Interesting. Also La Vagabond now have their own video editor on board the Delos crew do it themselves. I'm not a fan of SLV but, do check them out from time to time. Lately it appeared to me the guy looked a little bored or tired with whole situation. Though maybe the Outreamer loan and the need to make keep making videos and ($) has taken the fun out his plans.


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

mbianka said:


> Interesting. Also La Vagabond now have their own video editor on board the Delos crew do it themselves. I'm not a fan of SLV but, do check them out from time to time. Lately it appeared to me the guy looked a little bored or tired with whole situation. Though maybe the Outreamer loan and the need to make keep making videos and ($) has taken the fun out his plans.


To be fair the Delos crew have a minimum of three people rotating through video production and as far as I can tell being a crew member means producing some of the videos so that distributes the load even more. Aboard Vagabond Elayna does all the work so a bit of help was probably appreciated. And he's gone now so she is back to doing it solo.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

MacBlaze said:


> To be fair the Delos crew have a minimum of three people rotating through video production and as far as I can tell being a crew member means producing some of the videos so that distributes the load even more. Aboard Vagabond Elayna does all the work so a bit of help was probably appreciated. And he's gone now so she is back to doing it solo.


A good point which may explain why the fellow looks beat. I imagine it's hard coming up with compelling videos if all you wanted to do is chill at anchor sometime. So they need to keep moving for new material. Since it's just the two of them it's a lot more work for both now that their editor/camera person is gone. Where as Delos does have more editors they also have more footage since everybody has a camera. May make editing easier since there is more to choose from. But, they also seem get out more and explore either hiking or diving etc... I also check in to Untie the lines on occasion. I believe she sends the raw footage back to an editor in Europe who puts her videos together. One way or the other if they want to keep revenue coming they all have to feed the You Tube beast.

I was just thinking of my days on board. I send a lot of time relaxing in the cockpit just sitting and staring. One afternoon an Osprey dove about 10 feet off the stern to nab a fish.Would have been a shame to be down below staring at the editing screen. I would have missed such a memorable moment.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Found some more fascinating data. Looks like Delos patrons are up almost 100% over the past year, with a steady climb in all stats. LaVagabond and DrakeParagon were each up maybe 5-6% per vid, since last year, but both had spent time below their starting point.

https://graphtreon.com/creator/svdelos
https://graphtreon.com/creator/LaVagabonde
https://graphtreon.com/creator/DrakeParagon

While I like seeing an attractive woman as much as the next guy, I can honestly say it play no role in my interest with these channels. It doesn't seems to be a consistent driver of results either. I'm sure there is much more to these stats.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> ....
> While I like seeing an attractive woman as much as the next guy, I can honestly say it play no role in my interest with these channels. It doesn't seems to be a consistent driver of results either. I'm sure there is much more to these stats.


There will always be T ans A shows......testosterone...

I see Delos as real with many adventures...but too party happy like a vaca.... Hey, life is fantastic, etc....
Seems more youth oriented.

I see opportunity for more 'real cruising' vids.

Drakes boat stuff in the cockpit is good, but you will eventually loose people with too much land stuff. I don't know the balance...

RAN needs to keep on doing what they are doing...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

RegisteredUser said:


> I see Delos as real with many adventures...but too party happy like a vaca.... Hey, life is fantastic, etc....
> Seems more youth oriented.


You're right, they party up. However, most every middle aged sailor I know does the same, with just a little more decorum. Brian, the owner of the boat, is in his early 40s.

I think it's his "live now, while you can" approach that causes many that don't or can't to follow him vicariously. I know several middle aged guys that watch.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

RegisteredUser said:


> ......RAN needs to keep on doing what they are doing...


They've been on a constant climb. Albeit, from a small base.

https://graphtreon.com/creator/ransailing


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

Minnewaska said:


> You're right, they party up. However, most every middle aged sailor I know does the same, with just a little more decorum. Brian, the owner of the boat, is in his early 40s.
> 
> I think it's his "live now, while you can" approach that causes many that don't or can't to follow him vicariously. I know several middle aged guys that watch.


Here here! I was wondering when 40 became youth-oriented... Of course I don't mind that so much if it means 50 is bumped to barely grown up. :wink


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

So, we have the chicken on the boat.
That's cool and interesting...but for its poop...

I'm thinking domesticated monkey aboard...be a real hit.
Maybe even tailing lines and helping sail, who knows....

Dogs and cats are/can be interesting...but are too common.


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## ThereYouAre (Sep 21, 2016)

I know Vagabond for a while were trying to keep their vlog close to real time. This is a pretty horrible idea and guaranteed to stress them out. If you have a significant delay you can have an interesting three days in a row and have three weeks of content and plenty of down (editing) time. Lots of vloggers should post less and work on quality and story.

Another vlog I don't think was mentioned is Finding Simon. Young guy bought a Wharram catamaran which needs a whole lot of love. This would normally be right up my alley but he posts too often with too little content.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I'll throw out there that a 2-3 month lag is pretty reasonable, if one care's about recency.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> I'll throw out there that a 2-3 month lag is pretty reasonable, if one care's about recency.


Personally since my viewing is a winter/off season endeavor I don't mind the latency. Pretty easy to catch up on the viewing once my boat is pulled. Though Delos and now How To Sail Oceans are really the only ones I look forward to regular basis during winter. Even then I take breaks from watching them while on charters over the winter. But, catch up once I'm back in the cold northeast.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

All I know is that ~$13.5K every Friday - or 4-5 times a month - or ~52 times a year - is far beyond rattling a tin cup begging for money. That's starting to get into actual numbers...*a real product*.

Stay tuned for the new Amel. It should be coming soon.

Go the Delos.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Minnewaska said:


> You're right, they party up. However, most every middle aged sailor I know does the same, with just a little more decorum. Brian, the owner of the boat, is in his early 40s.
> 
> I think it's his "live now, while you can" approach that causes many that don't or can't to follow him vicariously. I know several middle aged guys that watch.


Count me amongst them.

Let's face it Brian did what a lot of us want to. He sold it all, walked away from a successful career and sailed for the horizon.

He is living the dream.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

chall03 said:


> Count me amongst them.
> 
> Let's face it Brian did what a lot of us want to. He sold it all, walked away from a successful career and sailed for the horizon.
> 
> He is living the dream.


Yes he is. But, he did it with some wise planning. At first he and his gal and brother sailed until they ran out of money. Then they stored the boat and went back to work to refill the sailing kitty. Then You Tube and Pateron came along and it has become much easier for them but, they now have to work on producing the videos every week. Still no free lunch but, beats working and commuting.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

mbianka said:


> Still no free lunch but, beats working and commuting.


Not all work means commuting... or having to be in a work place.

Writers don't need an office.... a pen and paper or a laptop works. If they need to do research a web connection is all they need.

Photographers need a camera and don't necessarily need a studio and no longer need a darkroom or even film!

Some sorts of professional services can be done from a computer with web access.

I can practice a lot of my architecture this way. No I can't meet clients, visit construction sites, attend meetings and so forth... But a large portion of the work of engineers, architects and so forth does not need a "place" to go to.

Going off the grid means that "work from a laptop" people need to have a partner or some sort of "support personnel" who are land based and can do what is required.... such as attend meetings, site visits for example. So you may be able to outsource you computer based skills to firms who in fact don't need you to occupy real estate in their office and are totally OK with receiving the work product via email.

This sort of work... outsource computer / www based can work well for boat people.

Choose your profession wisely....:2 boat:


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## Mattbastard (Jun 18, 2017)

I skipped right to the end of this thread, I'm not reading 19 pages. 

I only watch Abandon Comfort now. It's the most inspiring, even though there's hardly any sailing. It's more about sailboat restoration through some young pups with hardly any money. 

I still watch Ruby Rose but not very often. They've been dinking around on land lately. 

I watched Delos up til South Africa, then I lost interest. Nothing wrong with that crew, I just am not interested in following them anymore. 

I started with La Vagabonde, lost interest when they got the Cat. 

I powered through a few episodes of Sailing Doodles, that was all of that guy I could stand. I liked his location, but that was enough. And am I the only one who thought he treated that nice girl like crap? 

I don't pay into Pateron for anybody.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Mattbastard said:


> ...I started with La Vagabonde, lost interest when they got the Cat.....


This is an interesting phenomenon and born out by the stats I posted above. Why did you lose interest (I did too)? Did the characters change, was it the cruising grounds, has it become commercialized, is it the boat?

I think it was a combination for me. Mostly, I think their personalities changed from adventures making due with what little they had to a bit more commercialized jet set.

Seems to be a little bit of a dud for Outremer.


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## TwoWhln (Feb 26, 2018)

As a new-comer to sailing, I look for anything that helps me with regard to where I am in my journey. I have about 18 months of work left, which means I don't have a lot of time at all to watch video logs. I prefer to read a well written blog. If anyone has any suggestions, please share!


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

TwoWhln said:


> As a new-comer to sailing, I look for anything that helps me with regard to where I am in my journey. I have about 18 months of work left, which means I don't have a lot of time at all to watch video logs. I prefer to read a well written blog. If anyone has any suggestions, please share!


Have you tried Matt and Jessica of MJsailing.com ? The have both a Blog and a vlog. They are back in the water now, but you can go back and read their adventure from the beginning, when they bought an aluminum hulled boat on the hard and lived in it for over 2 years completely gutting, rebuilding, and refitting her.

Matt taught himself to be a pretty accomplished cabinet maker. Jessica taught herself to make sail covers, and a bimini.

I found it interesting when they found thin spots in their aluminum hull and had to have a welder come in and cut panels out to tack in new sections of aluminum plating.

I enjoyed following the development of their sea cat Georgie. Matt built a dedicated litter box Hideaway compartment under the companionway steps. Georgie was introduced to sailing as a kitten on their first boat a Sabre Targa 34 (I think they made a mistake trading "up" from the sabre.JMHO).
Throughout the rebuild and refitting, Georgie seemed like the one of the three of them who seemed the most restless on land.

When they finally got their boat back in the water, after over two years on the hard, Georgie actually seemed very pleased to have a home that rocks back and forth like it should.

Watching Georgie's excitement the first day they moved their boat on the water, I could imagine her saying, "Thank God we're going somewhere. I am so tired of this place". It was pretty much what the rest of us were thinking, for those of us who had followed them.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

A new article throws cold water on the idea of making You Tube a career and funding the cruising lifestyle or any lifestyle for that matter. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-27/-success-on-youtube-still-means-a-life-of-poverty


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Honestly, Youtube is just the platform. Yes there is some money to be made there - but these popular sailing channels are making their real money from Patreon and other sources. It has to be a multi-channel approach (Youtube, Patreon, FB, Twitter, blog, PR, etc.) - to be successful. The article doesn't even mention Patreon. So it's a bit nearsighted.


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## TwoWhln (Feb 26, 2018)

midwesterner said:


> Have you tried Matt and Jessica of MJsailing.com ?


Yes, I have been following them for about a year. It was interesting watching their process of refitting their boat. I respect the accomplishment, but I'm a little older and don't have 2 years to do a major refit. :|


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

TwoWhln said:


> Yes, I have been following them for about a year. It was interesting watching their process of refitting their boat. I respect the accomplishment, but I'm a little older and don't have 2 years to do a major refit. :|


I'm in the same situation. I will need a mostly turn key boat.

I would like to become rich and famous and fund my sailing and cruising career making videos. I've shown some of the vlogs to my wife and shared my fantasy. I pointed out to my wife that, for a video to be really successful, somebody has to wear a bikini. My wife said that she had no problem with that and said that she'd be happy to get me a bikini.


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## ThereYouAre (Sep 21, 2016)

With ad revenue constantly going down on youtube the number of followers becomes less relevant. An earlier post mentioned that while the sailing channels have relatively few viewers they are some of the biggest money earners on Patreon. 

If Dylan Winter of Keep Turning Left had setup a Patreon account I'm fairly certain he could have made enough money to keep his boat. This is the age of the 'long tail' and since his viewers are 'mostly old blokes' they probably have disposable income and just a few hundred of them willing to pitch in $5 a month would have kept him afloat. 

Producing what a relatively small number of people are willing to support seems to be the crux of the biscuit.


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## TwoWhln (Feb 26, 2018)

ThereYouAre said:


> Producing what a relatively small number of people are willing to support seems to be the crux of the biscuit.


If (and it's a big IF) you produce blog content that will result in a following, there are income opportunities with blogs that don't rely on reader contributions. There's a couple of good articles on The Money Habit blog that talk about it. It is not a sailing blog, but for the purpose of this conversation, it's a great read.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

Sailing Vlogs are niche anyways. Sailing itself is niche. Mainstream youtube channels about fashion and video games and celebrity gossip and douchebag shock jocks are always going to be a more marketable product. The people tuning in to watch SLV or Delos are for the most part not into sailing...but into the _people_. The eye candy. And the travel, sure. But I'm betting it's a single digit percentage who are actually sailors or even boaters.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

amwbox said:


> ........The people tuning in to watch SLV or Delos are for the most part not into sailing...but into the _people_. The eye candy. And the travel, sure. But I'm betting it's a single digit percentage who are actually sailors or even boaters.


I'm absolutely sure it's not that low, or it would only be the people on this forum. 

However, there is no doubt that you're right about a large number of "dreamers" that watch these channels and have never been to sea. There is some sort of allure to sailing around the world. We see it routinely around here, with unrealistic threads that ask about what boat one should buy to learn to sail and circumnavigate. I'll bet these channels are a vicarious way to feel what it would be like to drop everything and just go explore. 99% of people will never actually do it.

I do not believe any significant majority subscribe to and then routinely watch these two channels, predominantly for the eye candy. Maybe a few times and they move on. Let's face it, if one has no more than a skin obsession, there is plenty else on the internet where you don't have to bore with all the sailing stuff.


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## Mattbastard (Jun 18, 2017)

Minnewaska said:


> This is an interesting phenomenon and born out by the stats I posted above. Why did you lose interest (I did too)? Did the characters change, was it the cruising grounds, has it become commercialized, is it the boat?
> 
> I think it was a combination for me. Mostly, I think their personalities changed from adventures making due with what little they had to a bit more commercialized jet set.
> 
> Seems to be a little bit of a dud for Outremer.


It was a combination of things for me, most specifically being:

When they got the Outreamer I feel like the authenticity of their voyage fell apart. One aspect of this to me is the value of boat they're in. The Beneteau was, if I remember correctly around $70K. Based on their backstory owning that made sense to me. Now that they somehow worked out a $500K Cat I just lost interest in the story since my vicarious interest now felt even more unattainable.

And I have very little interest in the Mediterranean Sea.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Mattbastard said:


> .....Now that they somehow worked out a $500K Cat I just lost interest in the story since my vicarious interest now felt even more unattainable.


I agree. We know they got a deal from Outremer, so that could very well be what they paid (or the calculated value of the lease). However, properly equipped for long term cruising, I have to think that Outremer would run $750k+, in USD, out of a dealer.



> And I have very little interest in the Mediterranean Sea.


I'm not sure what changed, or why, but I now feel the same. 20 years ago, I thought that would be the destination, but being further off the beaten path is more appealing now. The Med is about as beaten as they come.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

I like The Adventures of Tarka. It is just starting, young guy, small inexpensive boat, BVI's - all proceeds go to the Coral Reef Alliance/


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

smackdaddy said:


> Never hurts to ask. I have a Patreon link in our videos - and a grand total of *1* Patron that we are *very* proud of (a good friend)!
> 
> But I don't really care about that. It's more about memories for the boys. At the same time, I have no problem with anyone who is producing good videos asking for patronage. It really is a lot of work to make entertaining stuff. I think they'd be dumb NOT to ask. No one has to pay.
> 
> For the real money you need young ladies in skimpy bathing attire. We only have a little dog with a lot of hair. So there you go...


Shave the dog?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

sailpower said:


> Shave the dog?


Watch your mouth mister! This is a family-oriented forum.

Heh-heh.


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)




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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Sal Paradise said:


> I like The Adventures of Tarka. It is just starting, young guy, small inexpensive boat, BVI's - all proceeds go to the Coral Reef Alliance/


Looks interesting. At least this fellow knows there will be some bad times as well as the good along the way. He's not suffering from Jimmy Buffett syndrome.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

mbianka said:


> Looks interesting. At least this fellow knows there will be some bad times as well as the good along the way. He's not suffering from Jimmy Buffett syndrome.


People don't write these days... they are so facile with digital graphics. In a sense taking vids and adding music (YUCK) and some bit of narration has replaced writing a diary or a biography. This may be easier... and easier to reach an audience. And who needs publishers and editors and that old technology... print. You can live forever on some corner of the www.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

SanderO said:


> People don't write these days... they are so facile with digital graphics. In a sense taking vids and adding music (YUCK) and some bit of narration has replaced writing a diary or a biography. This may be easier... and easier to reach an audience. And who needs publishers and editors and that old technology... print. You can live forever on some corner of the www.


Only as long as there is power to the server's memory. Otherwise poof! Meanwhile Slocum's book Sailing Alone Around the World has already survived over a hundred years and could last many more electricity or no electricity. Though technology has also allowed people to self publish books too. Whereas previously people had to go through all kinds of hoops to publish a book or get a show on TV these days one can do it themselves if they have the drive and desire.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

mbianka said:


> Only as long as there is power to the server's memory. Otherwise poof! Meanwhile Slocum's book Sailing Alone Around the World has already survived over a hundred years and could last many more electricity or no electricity. Though technology has also allowed people to self publish books too. Whereas previously people had to go through all kinds of hoops to publish a book or get a show on TV these days one can do it themselves if they have the drive and desire.


Sure.... but people with the drive and desire to tell a story in THIS era will 99% go to the internet model and vlogs.

We will become a nation of illiterates.. who communicate with txt shorthand and emoticons.

Do they even teach cursive writing anymore? Or drafting to architects?

My step son is a whiz with tech and can't write a proper letter.


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## Olivershamm (Mar 4, 2018)

I personally enjoy most of the youtube sailing vessel videos, especially SV Delos. They seem to have a chemistry that reels people in although I believe it was not their initial intention to have watchers fund them. Distant Shores has been around long before any of the youtube videos and their show has now moved from tv to youtube.They've introduced a lifestyle that was previously unknown to many hope-to-be sailors like myself. As far as Patreon goes, there are zillions of venues out there looking for money for some cause. The hungry child commercials have been on for 50 years! Those kids should all be retired by now. Let's give these folks a thumbs up for sharing there lives for those around the world to scrutinize. P.S. you can get more "eye candy" on regular tv these days...just saying.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

SanderO said:


> Sure.... but people with the drive and desire to tell a story in THIS era will 99% go to the internet model and vlogs.
> 
> We will become a nation of illiterates.. who communicate with txt shorthand and emoticons.
> 
> ...


Cursive writing is basically useless. Drafting on paper...also very limited use compared to 3D design environments. While it's a tragedy IMO (<-- See that? We're doomed.) that reading has gone out the window among the mainstream...sometimes old things are just _old_. Doing away with cursive writing and drafting tables isn't actually a bad thing. Things do improve.

They've been warning us about our coming post-literacy for 50 years. Longer actually. Television has been given the mark of the beast from the very beginning. It's not that people are becoming less literate...it's that they aren't as interested in the long form version of it. And we are increasingly becoming literate in terms of machine language, programming, and automating our lives. Even at the level of being able to sit here and type this using bracketed text commands for format is a form of entirely new literacy that is arguably far more valuable. Someone today is less likely to read a newspaper over breakfast...but more likely to be able to code and work in the abstraction of technology.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

amwbox said:


> ....
> They've been warning us about our coming post-literacy for 50 years. Longer actually. .....


Yes. 
Go back 100 years or so in literature see how we have changed.
It's astounding, really.
We communicate differently now, and it's always been changing.
IIRC, I learned cursive in 3rd grade.
I still think cursive is beautiful writing, but I've not used it in 20+ years.

One thing that never changes...is change....


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## Arcas Rover (Mar 9, 2016)

SanderO said:


> Sure.... but people with the drive and desire to tell a story in THIS era will 99% go to the internet model and vlogs.
> 
> We will become a nation of illiterates.. who communicate with txt shorthand and emoticons.
> 
> ...


In another life I ran a small business. Over a relatively short span of time not too long ago, the pool of prospective employees just graduated from school shifted from possession of mostly solid basic traits (the three R's, functional social skills, reasonable willingness to learn and follow instructions, respect for others and property, etc.) to video game values. Young Americans and Europeans now grow up in cyberspace, which is not the real world.

Keep enough food in the pantry for your son as well as yourself, I'd suggest. Come the EMPs, the arrrival of which we can't predict but to know sooner or later they will, people whose primary address is in the virtual world won't know what to do.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Arcas Rover said:


> In another life I ran a small business. Over a relatively short span of time not too long ago, the pool of prospective employees just graduated from school shifted from possession of mostly solid basic traits (the three R's, functional social skills, reasonable willingness to learn and follow instructions, respect for others and property, etc.) to video game values. Young Americans and Europeans now grow up in cyberspace, which is not the real world.
> 
> Keep enough food in the pantry for your son as well as yourself, I'd suggest. Come the EMPs, the arrrival of which we can't predict but to know sooner or later they will, people whose primary address is in the virtual world won't know what to do.


These youngsters may come up with hi tech apps and so on... but running the world, a business has nothing to do with cyber... even running a boat!

I can't do a thing with my high tech car and I fear this is what is the future of sailing... black box sailing!


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Arcas Rover said:


> Young Americans and Europeans now grow up in cyberspace, which is not the real world.


What a horrible thing to say. I am so going to nerf all your Pokemon!

.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

SanderO said:


> These youngsters may come up with hi tech apps and so on... but running the world, a business has nothing to do with cyber... even running a boat!
> 
> I can't do a thing with my high tech car and I fear this is what is the future of sailing... black box sailing!


Heaven forbid reeving a line, whipping said line, coiling the damn thing or being able to tie a bowline or a simple cleat hitch...manual dexterity just about gone in the those folks, hand eye coordination gone too. Throw a frisbee? forget about it...clean a fish? Good god..when pigs fly!


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

SanderO said:


> These youngsters may come up with hi tech apps and so on... but running the world, a business has nothing to do with cyber... even running a boat!
> 
> I can't do a thing with my high tech car and I fear this is what is the future of sailing... black box sailing!


Luddism.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

aeventyr60 said:


> Heaven forbid reeving a line, whipping said line, coiling the damn thing or being able to tie a bowline or a simple cleat hitch...manual dexterity just about gone in the those folks, hand eye coordination gone too.


Oh, nonsense. "Kids these days" can absolutely coil up a friggin line...lol. C'mon! As for hand eye coordination...we're talking about people who can spend hours at a time moving things through 3D environments with tremendous speed, timing, and precision. Video games are basically the ultimate expression of hand-eye coordination!

Honestly, this doom and gloom about young people has been going on for centuries. I'm thoroughly middle-aged myself, but damn. I wonder what the average age of this forum is sometimes! Have I found a place where I can be a youngster again? At least in relative terms?


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Whipping lines and tying knots are now deemed sexist.

If you still do this on your boat please check your privilege on the dock, you white male rapist.

:captain:


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Whipping lines and tying knots are now deemed sexist.
> 
> If you still do this on your boat please check your privilege on the dock, you white male rapist.
> 
> :captain:


I think that you can still have whipping lines.

You just can't use them.


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## dorymate1 (Dec 6, 2011)

KIDS Every time I watch a kite boarder I wonder if ever I could have done that. Or the snow tube tricks at the Olympics. There have always been the use less out there but the kids have it all on us.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

amwbox said:


> Oh, nonsense. "Kids these days" can absolutely coil up a friggin line...lol. C'mon! As for hand eye coordination...we're talking about people who can spend hours at a time moving things through 3D environments with tremendous speed, timing, and precision. Video games are basically the ultimate expression of hand-eye coordination!
> 
> Honestly, this doom and gloom about young people has been going on for centuries. I'm thoroughly middle-aged myself, but damn. I wonder what the average age of this forum is sometimes! Have I found a place where I can be a youngster again? At least in relative terms?


I'm being a youngster, kayaking into the beach everyday, riding my bike to yoga classes, playing beach volleyball, staying up way way past my bedtime too. Going to live reggae concerts, smoking the occasional, well you know what. More fun then a barrel of monkeys out here..

As far as the young folks go..having a ball hanging out with them. Sure beats the grotty yachtie geriatric crowd.

I found that the best young crew were those that were involved in some kind of trade type job. The young Kiwi carpenter could turn his hand to anything on the boat. Very little sailing experience but picked things up quickly. Had a keen eye for things he could fix, make better or make shine, with no asking from me. So, there are good one's out here. The recent uni grads..not so enthralled with.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Whipping lines and tying knots are now deemed sexist.
> 
> If you still do this on your boat please check your privilege on the dock, you white male rapist.
> 
> :captain:


The whipping lines felt wonderful from this Danish Mermaid...


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## SailingSerafin (Mar 12, 2018)

I have been creating content for fun and as journal for creative projects and it definitely takes time and work... recently have been enjoying watching and geeking out on most youtube channels, famous ones and other not so well known find it all super inspiring and no matter what you'll find something you like and feel inspired by it. Recently I got my first sailboat and a few weeks after hurricane Irma and Maria came around. This last few months have been challenging to say the least to all the islands on the Caribbean and this situation motivated me to start creating some videos as a journal/vlog with random recordings after the hurricane, the experience and this new stage we're all facing after last hurricane season. If your interested check it out on youtube and stay tuned for more stories: Sailing Serafin


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## CelticSailr (Oct 6, 2017)

I've watched a DIY guy for a while now, after 5 years doing nothing but renovating boats, I'm convinced he'll never start sailing. To each his own I suppose.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

CelticSailr said:


> I've watched a DIY guy for a while now, after 5 years doing nothing but renovating boats, I'm convinced he'll never start sailing. To each his own I suppose.


Probably happens pretty often. I knew a guy I worked with. He bought a boat for $25k with a dream to head to the Bahamas and ultimately Grenada. He kept the boat on the hard for four years including spending $200 plus for mast storage per month. Wanted to make it perfect. Rewired and put in stainless steel exhaust etc.. and $$ flowed out of his wallet. I kept telling him launch the boat and work on it as you go. Didn't listen. Finally after four years on the hard he launched and got to the Bahamas in January and the windy winter fronts got to him after two weeks so he headed back home. He's still on the boat but, mostly on a dock in Florida.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

LaVagabond just put out a short to describe their typical week and it went something like this:

Monday - Elana (Edit Video) Riley (Maintenance)
Tuesday - Elana (Edit Video) Riley (Odd Jobs)
Wednesday - Elana (Get Video Uploaded and Setup on YouTube) Riley (RDO)
Thursday - Elana (Provisioning, Cooking, Cleaning, Laundry) Riley (Final Sail Prep, Set Course, Weather Check, Note Obstacles, Verify Marina Contacts, Set Up Check Out with Customs, Etc) 
Friday - Elana & Riley (Sailing & Filming)
Saturday - Elana & Riley (Arrive and Recover)
Sunday - Elana & Riley (Explore, Meet People and Film)

Sounds like a full time job to produce a 10 to 30 minute weekly sailing show by themselves for the most part and occasionally with a guest helping. 1 day sailing for each week of work.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

CelticSailr said:


> I've watched a DIY guy for a while now, after 5 years doing nothing but renovating boats, I'm convinced he'll never start sailing. To each his own I suppose.


Would that be Mads on Sail Life? He seems like one of the nicest guys on the planet, but I wonder if he really plans to sail. He started a rehab on his boat and just as the light was at the end of the tunnel, he buys another fix'er up'er, instead of launching. He also signed up as crew on a trans Atlantic, but bailed at the first port, due to seasickness.

I'm still subscribed, but I bore of the constant projects. One thing I'm impressed with is his endurance. When I do projects like his is doing, I'm shot. There is no way I could film it all at the same time, let alone hold down a job and do the editing to air it. I just started commissioning our boat last weekend and sprained my wrist in the process!

Some get all their joy from the projects. That's fine. I like both, but I highly prefer to sail, especially to a destination. The husband of a friend of mine took over 20 years to build his own boat. Plan was to sail to Bahamas, Caribbean, etc. He just launched it a handful of years back. It came back out of the water for improvements almost immediately. I doubt they'll ever go anywhere. But that's okay, if they're happy.


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## CelticSailr (Oct 6, 2017)

Minnewaska said:


> Would that be Mads on Sail Life? He seems like one of the nicest guys on the planet, but I wonder if he really plans to sail. He started a rehab on his boat and just as the light was at the end of the tunnel, he buys another fix'er up'er, instead of launching. He also signed up as crew on a trans Atlantic, but bailed at the first port, due to seasickness.
> 
> I'm still subscribed, but I bore of the constant projects. One thing I'm impressed with is his endurance. When I do projects like his is doing, I'm shot. There is no way I could film it all at the same time, let alone hold down a job and do the editing to air it. I just started commissioning our boat last weekend and sprained my wrist in the process!
> 
> Some get all their joy from the projects. That's fine. I like both, but I highly prefer to sail, especially to a destination. The husband of a friend of mine took over 20 years to build his own boat. Plan was to sail to Bahamas, Caribbean, etc. He just launched it a handful of years back. It came back out of the water for improvements almost immediately. I doubt they'll ever go anywhere. But that's okay, if they're happy.


Yup it's him. He's a super nice guy and has learned some incredible skills in the process, the most practical being the video editing and production. He could make a living doing that sort of work while sailing.

I found myself shaking my head in his latest engine compartment videos especially cutting up the fuel tank, but hey, his boat, his life. There is no way that boat is getting splashed this year at the snails pace he is going.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

CelticSailr said:


> Yup it's him. He's a super nice guy and has learned some incredible skills in the process, the most practical being the video editing and production. He could make a living doing that sort of work while sailing.
> 
> I found myself shaking my head in his latest engine compartment videos especially cutting up the fuel tank, but hey, his boat, his life. There is no way that boat is getting splashed this year at the snails pace he is going.


He's certainly volunteering for projects that aren't necessary to go sailing. I also suspect that sailing is pretty expensive in Norway (I think he's in Norway). I'm not sure where he gets all the money. I think he's a computer programmer of sorts. Even with his labor, he has to be spending more on the boat that it will ever be worth. I know he has stayed aboard, but I think I recall he lives ashore. Maybe he'll float at the dock one day, live aboard and make a lifetime of maintaining his boat, without going much of anywhere. It's cool, if it brings him joy.


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## CelticSailr (Oct 6, 2017)

Minnewaska said:


> He's certainly volunteering for projects that aren't necessary to go sailing. I also suspect that sailing is pretty expensive in Norway (I think he's in Norway). I'm not sure where he gets all the money. I think he's a computer programmer of sorts. Even with his labor, he has to be spending more on the boat that it will ever be worth. I know he has stayed aboard, but I think I recall he lives ashore. Maybe he'll float at the dock one day, live aboard and make a lifetime of maintaining his boat, without going much of anywhere. It's cool, if it brings him joy.


I was surprised at how little he's paying in docking and yard fees for 2 boats. I can't remember the exact number but it was ridiculously low compared to anywhere in the Great Lakes. A boat like Athena would be $6,000 a year around Toronto to store outside on the hard. The $$$$ flying out of his wallet must be incredible. I imagine the youtube revenue is pretty good, plus the discounted supplies but still. I would rather be doing something fun.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

I think he actually mentioned that his yard fees were something like 200 a month over there. So basically even though everything is wildly expensive in Denmark he's getting a crazy good deal on that. His channel isn't big enough to generate a lot of Revenue on YouTube. I think he does okay on patreon though.


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

Mads had to cut his fuel tank. It was badly corroded and was put in the boat before it was completed. He is anal beyond belief but I look forward to his weekly videos.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Minnewaska said:


> He's certainly volunteering for projects that aren't necessary to go sailing. I also suspect that sailing is pretty expensive in Norway (I think he's in Norway). I'm not sure where he gets all the money. I think he's a computer programmer of sorts. Even with his labor, he has to be spending more on the boat that it will ever be worth. I know he has stayed aboard, but I think I recall he lives ashore. Maybe he'll float at the dock one day, live aboard and make a lifetime of maintaining his boat, without going much of anywhere. It's cool, if it brings him joy.


Mads is the bomb. I've learned from him and even been inspired to get off my a** and do a particular project that I had been putting off. He is in Denmark, and he lives on his other boat, not ashore.

And as much as I like and admire the guy, I too sometimes wonder about all of the projects. He's addressed that question at least once in the videos, explaining that his dream isn't just to sail, but to sail a boat that he has completely renovated himself. But you can see he has a passion for his boats, and if you doubt he wants to really sail, check out the videos of him delivering Athena from Scotland to Denmark (despite the seasickness). I really follow only two vlogs: Mads and Nike on Untie the Lines. I don't really look forward to any of the others, but I do also watch Abandon Comfort and Learning the Lines on an irregular basis. Not a fan of the Vagabond or Delos or similar vlogs.


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

I just looked 700 per video. and yes his dream has always been to rebuild an old boat then sail off into the sunset.

I do watch his videos every sunday...

So does sitting on my butt watching YouTube get me closer to sailing away myself? lol Nope


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## CelticSailr (Oct 6, 2017)

snokid said:


> I just looked 700 per video. and yes his dream has always been to rebuild an old boat then sail off into the sunset.
> 
> I do watch his videos every sunday...
> 
> So does sitting on my butt watching YouTube get me closer to sailing away myself? lol Nope


How do you figure out the monetary compensation?


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## dwedeking (Jan 28, 2007)

Find their Patreon page (usually a link like www.patreon.com/boatname) from either website or their Youtube channel write up. On the left hand side of the page it will show how much they get per video/issue


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

700 per video. Let's looks at mads videos to show the amount of work that goes into a good quality video.
First last week he told us one of his camera's tipped over and chipped the lens, I don't know which camera it was but put that in the 600-1000 dollar range there goes the profit for that week.

Next lets looks at how he films his videos, He has several cameras, a wireless lapel mic, tripods and what not 3-4k worth of gear easy.

Now watching his videos he usually opens with him walking up to the boat talking to the camera, then transitions into him opening the companionway.
this all happens in the first 30 seconds of the video.

Ok it's shooting day.
you set your tripod up turn the camera on walk out to where you want to want into frame at and action nothing terribly hard.
next you climb up into the boat and point the camera aft close the hatch and action open the hatch and say hi guys. also not too terribly hard
now you move the camera and start talking about what your are going to do in this video.... 

I'm betting he has gotten pretty good at setting this up but still at best he has wasted at least a 1/2 hour of time that he could of been working on the boat.

keep adding up all that time setting shots up and I would be he spends a couple of hours every weekend moving camera's around.

That said 700 a week isn't too bad for a few hours of work either.

But how long did it take him to start making any money? years I bet, so everything in the beginning was self funded.

I'm curious to see when he does sail off into the sunset if his numbers stay the same, go down or go up. only time will tell....

Bob


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## ThereYouAre (Sep 21, 2016)

snokid said:


> <snip>
> That said 700 a week isn't too bad for a few hours of work either.
> 
> But how long did it take him to start making any money? years I bet, so everything in the beginning was self funded.
> ...


It's probably more than a couple hours a week when you count the time editing. That said he's been doing it long enough that he probably has got the process pretty streamlined.

I find that I'm more interested in the building/repairing videos than the sailing channels. I was following MJ Sailing but now that they're done with their refit I've mostly lost interest.

I wish there were more 'slow tv' sailing channels. 'Slow TV' as far as I know got it's start when a Norwegian broadcaster put a camera on the front of a train and broadcast a 7 hour trip. You don't so much watch 'Slow TV' as glance at it while you're doing other things.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Mads on Sail Life tops at $700 per vid now, but it was under $100 per vid, just one year ago. It can't be where he's been getting much of the funding. Also, note the per video contributions can be limited by the contributor to a total amount per month. That means that some unknown number of contributors stop paying as additional vids are released each month, so we really don't know the take.

Also noteworthy is SL has a fairly low average patron per vid of $2.27 and it's been declining. As he adds new Patrons, they are coming in a lower pledges.

https://graphtreon.com/creator/saillife

https://www.patreon.com/saillife


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

Just started watching Sailing Uma, Sailing Uma

Excellent cruising channel from a young couple.

Really good perspective on cruising.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

I spent a good part of my day working in the boat storage lot at the sailing center. Put a boat and trailer up on stands to repair the trailer and stripped off everything on the trailer that is going to need repairing while waiting for what I varnished to dry. 

Was so tired I fell asleep after dinner and just woke up a short while ago. Did not watch any recreational programs today. 

Tomorrows going to involve repairing, fabricating and welding trailer parts so like LaVagabon its going to be work, work, work.

Not a bad day for a senior citizen who was supposed to be confined to a wheel chair since 1997.


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## ThereYouAre (Sep 21, 2016)

I'm pleased to see that our own Christian Williams has tried his hand at a 'Slow TV' sailing video


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

I'm pleased to see that our own Christian Williams has tried his hand at a 'Slow TV' sailing video 

Nice. But, a wind sock filter on the mic would have made it better.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)




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## trevorharris (Oct 17, 2016)

Well, its entertainment, plain an simple. Some pay for cable where the money has to trickle down through so many channels before the it finds its way to the folk who create the stories in the first place. With patron, the money goes to the creative artists directly. And its almost donation based. You pay if you want. I think its a great opportunity for those who truly want to create something without the requirement of advertisement, schedule, or script.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

I kept saying get some fenders out before he jumped on board. Lucky fellow he made it without injury.


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

amwbox said:


> Dismasted in the Deep Blue (Ep. 39 ~ Bum on a Boat) - YouTube


The number of bad decisions in that video is mind boggling.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Maybe there is a back story on that vid I’m not following. Why no call to the CG and that’s just the beginning of the WTF.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

That video doesn't add up to me. Jumping from boat to boat under full sail like pirates. Doesn't make any sense. And they have 5200 followers and most of the commentators think it's awesome. 

I'd like to take a look behind the editing on that one.


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## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

Since I started this thread ( 25 pages ago) thought I would update my favorite Youtuber's - 
Ran Sailing
Untie the Lines 
Tales of an old seadog 
Uma Sailing 
Whats interesting - all the above seem to be chasing each other around the Caribbean and now Panama - 2 are now have passed through the canal - Untie is in Golfito CR - a place I have been to - it rains a whole lot - the reports from San Blas were a bit of a mixed bag - can be beautiful but lots of trash ( like many parts of Panama), they all seemed to enjoy my adoptive country of Colombia - the Rio Dulce in Guatemala looked interesting 

Uma spent a lot of time in Haiti - ( the girl is from there so local knowledge) found it very interesting - an area that is not very known - it looked like if you know where to go would be worth a visit.

Would like to see more from the guy from Norway who sails the North Sea - but he seems to have stopped - No BS Just Sailing.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I've been watching a bit of Ran Sailing and they're not bad. I watched their Panama Canal transit these past couple of weeks. Not the best video I've seen, but an interesting story.

Not having been as sensitive to the T&A comments made by some, I think I finally get it. Sailing Satori was fed to me as a recommended channel and I watched the tour of their Morgan 44 and a hurricane vid. Both have gratuitous scenes of the woman walking in her bikini, stripping off her t-shirts, etc, as opposed to simply being in a bikini in hot weather. I'm no prude, but man it just looks like they are pimping out her skin for clicks. Almost embarrassing, but she seems willing.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

cdy said:


> Since I started this thread ( 25 pages ago) thought I would update my favorite Youtuber's -
> Ran Sailing
> Untie the Lines
> Tales of an old seadog
> ...


I do check up on all of the above as they occasionally pop up on the recommendation windows on You Tube. Agree with your comments. So many others are out there now and more it seems each day. Nice to have choices. Though even those I come across where I shake my head and think "What were they thinking!" can be entertaining. Then there are others who I enjoyed who seemed to have dropped off the map like Wicked Salty after hitting some bad luck. 
However once I splash the boat I cut back or stop viewing until the fall haul out. Because I'm enjoying my own sailing reality.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

There are many opportunities to exploit.
It's barely been touched.
It's still in its amateur infancy.

...sorry Old Seadog is having probs in San Blas. He seems like a nice, positive guy.
There has to be a relatively inexpensive way to rig a cam on the mast/rigging allowing a solo sailor to read the water ahead...hoist and stabilize it...steer by tablet.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

RegisteredUser said:


> There are many opportunities to exploit.
> It's barely been touched.
> It's still in its amateur infancy.
> 
> ...


He seems to be making the right decisions compared to some of the others with Vlogs who seem to be shipwrecks waiting to happen. He knows when not to push it and will head back to an anchorage while he can and conditions are still favorable.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

mbianka said:


> He seems to be making the right decisions compared to some of the others with Vlogs who seem to be shipwrecks waiting to happen. He knows when not to push it and will head back to an anchorage while he can and conditions are still favorable.


I agree.
I think he understands his limits and stays below them.
Nice bloke, chap, guy, whatever...
Solo and doing the vids...is a lot. Prob sends back to civilization for the editing.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I just discovered Old Sea Dog

Uma has gotten too commercial, as they ran out of content

as far as chasing each other around... I wish there would be a forum/panel discussion of some sort, maybe at a boat show (up north for me) where some of the 'stars' sail vlogs would get together.

I would have to say my favorite blogs tend to be the ones that are less glitzy and more real, not created reality

Besides Old Sea Dog, my other favorites are La Vida a Vela (beauty and not just the nudity ha), SaltWest Co
as well as Sailing Zingaro, who has become popular in the Cannabis Thread


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

RegisteredUser said:


> I agree.
> I think he understands his limits and stays below them.
> Nice bloke, chap, guy, whatever...
> Solo and doing the vids...is a lot. Prob sends back to civilization for the editing.


I don't know, maybe, but he does talk about editing from time to time... In one of them he said the sea was too rough to edit the video. Of course that could be just deciding what he is going to send to the editor if you are right

I also like the good choices the Sea Dog makes.

he has a great subtle humor.

"I caught that fall on camera, haven't been able to do that"

or

"There goes my hat." //////// "I liked that hat."


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Thanks for all the good suggestions. I'm trying to check out as many as I can before I get too involved doing real sailing.

First, I'm getting to enjoy Sailing Doodles a little more. The guy doesn't seem to be as much of a jerk as I thought, and the hyper-kinetic girlfriend is kind of a hoot to watch.

Also, I need to share a clip with all of you. I've mentioned before that I really love seeing videos where couples are true equal parts in all aspects of sailing. I'm not sure why it's so important to me to see that, but I suspect a large part of it is the safety factor - it feels good to know the partner could take over if the guy was incapacitated in some way. There's also one vlog I've complained about (won't name it here) because it seems like the guy gives his wife all the crap jobs on deck while he just sits behind the wheel - that's going a little too far. But the one I'm posting here is one where the guy does plenty of dirty engine work himself, and the wife also gets very involved with boat projects, and shows a clear understanding of how things work - well enough to be very self sufficient on her own. This clip is one good example of this (go to 11:46 if it doesn't start there automatically):

Sailboat Repairs in the Florida Keys! - Sailing ShaggySeas Ep. 21 - YouTube


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Sailing Nandji
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKzcVZX2xM_kiOFWuGg-Phw/videos

I watched their latest 1/2 dozen vids and enjoyed them.
In the Solomons which interest me.
Chick is muy calor, but not flaunted in the ones I've watched.
The 'trading' with locals is interesting and I hope they show more of this.

I'll work my way back on their vids...have no idea where they started.
Chick is Aussie...dunno about the dude.
Monohull...


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

RegisteredUser said:


> Sailing Nandji
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKzcVZX2xM_kiOFWuGg-Phw/videos
> 
> I watched their latest 1/2 dozen vids and enjoyed them.
> ...


Yeah they are in a nice location and have some nice interesting footage. Though it seems they make sure there are enough cleavage shots in undersized bikinis to keep the Internet money rolling in. I'm amused as she seems to have the selfie stick angles down for maximum effect.  At least in this video it seems.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Seems, so far, they concentrate on the sailing trip.
She's well gifted for sure...


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

A great youtube channel, with no pimping of the girl, is Free Range Sailing. They are exploring Australia, off the beaten track. Great videography and amazing fishing (even for me, who finds fishing breathtakingly boring). They sail an old 30ft boat on a very tight budget- showing it's possible to cruise with very little.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbU2ulPD3rJ4OZCNH7-gjjQ/videos

Another channel I like is Winded Voyage. It's sort of a thinking person's channel.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC--24Q3_ZQeFmgJE-Um5QZQ/videos

I find I have no interest in many of the sailing channels that seem to be more popular. Too many of them are like watching Beevis and Butthead on a sailing adventure. An exception is Delos, which started out like spring break on a boat, but is getting better and better as the brothers mature. I'm looking forward to the next videos in Brazil. They certainly do a lot more voyaging- and to more remote places- than the other sailing channels.

The patreon thing doesn't bother me at all. I think if a channel provides quality content and viewers want to support it, that's great. I'd be happy to support many of them if money were no object. It's a lot of work to produce quality videos. However, it sort of bugs me when someone starts out, buys a boat, starts a youtube channel and then immediately starts pumping the patreon thing before they've actually done anything worth supporting. There is a channel in Brazil like that (which shall remain unnamed) that has the ambitious addition of 'sailing around the world' in their channel name. They've gone all of 200nm so far, but the patreon and funding scheme for their adventure is in full swing.

Rant over.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

copacabana said:


> A great youtube channel, with no pimping of the girl, is Free Range Sailing. They are exploring Australia, off the beaten track. Great videography and amazing fishing (even for me, who finds fishing breathtakingly boring). They sail an old 30ft boat on a very tight budget- showing it's possible to cruise with very little.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbU2ulPD3rJ4OZCNH7-gjjQ/videos
> 
> ...


Both of those look interesting and seem more serious and informative than a lot of others where it's all about the party. I like Free Range is also using a Porta Bote for a dingy like me. Glad the locals who came banging on the their hull at 2 AM were just drunk and friendly. Though my video watching will soon be ending as boat launching time approaches.


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

copacabana said:


> Another channel I like is Winded Voyage. It's sort of a thinking person's channel.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC--24Q3_ZQeFmgJE-Um5QZQ/videos


I have been watching him from the beginning. I haven't been sucked in , but for some reason I keep coming back. Maybe it's his optimism. Or his practicality. The series is worth watching just to discover how much work you have to do and how many sea hours you need if you want your boat to be Swiss flagged!


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

MacBlaze said:


> I have been watching him from the beginning. I haven't been sucked in , but for some reason I keep coming back. Maybe it's his optimism. Or his practicality. The series is worth watching just to discover how much work you have to do and how many sea hours you need if you want your boat to be Swiss flagged!


Once you get past those first videos, and he sets off, it gets better- much better.

I like the way he views the world. He's an interesting chap with an interesting background.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

although he isn't sailing Sailboat Story is one of the best out there. Ben just finished building a dinghy


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

titustiger27 said:


> although he isn't sailing Sailboat Story is one of the best out there. Ben just finished building a dinghy


They leave for another season in the Bahamas soon. His editing and sense of humor are above par.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Bleemus said:


> They leave for another season in the Bahamas soon. His editing and sense of humor are above par.


I agree with the sense of humor.

What makes his humor work, is what makes the videos work: set up and timing

even without humor, the guy is doing things that I am not sure many of the video people get


He experiments a lot with black and white to color. It is used somewhat sparingly, but I suspect he will lessen the use of it just so it doesn't get stale

Putting the camera someplace interesting (once or twice he put the camera at the bottom of the ocean so when he, his wife and daughter were snorkeling you got a very interesting take

His 'confessionals' are not in a dark cabin static. (When he takes a moment to tell you what just happened --- where they sailed from or where they are going --- he will be moving the camera around as he talks... or go into the cabin and ask Tambi how she is feeling, then tell you she has been sick. (this is problematic for most vloggers who either grew up in reality tv or see other video producers doing it, but there is always that five minute shot of the protagonists talking about themselves and there they are just two faces in front of the camera. Everyone has to use this some, but too many use it too much.)

 He is a student of what works and does. If it works you will probably see it again, if you don't, probably not. He says he doesn't have a video background, so I have a feeling that every time he watches a video or movies and takes what is going on. Just about every one of his videos I have seen a different way he has transitioned from a scene to another. A lot of vloggers rely on covering the camera with their hand to end, and take his or her had off the camera to start the next scene...

for most people that would be 'so what' but really it is what keeps the videos interesting without doing much, though it requires so much thinking to keep things fresh

My favorite thing he does is not have a standard 'over-produced' beginning that I have to skip over because I find them so boring -- and then I usually miss some content, but for me it is the risk I take


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Bleemus said:


> They leave for another season in the Bahamas soon. His editing and sense of humor are above par.


Just tried to check his channel out videos were not loading. Probably a You Tube problem.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

There are only two that I enjoy watching, Sailing With An Old Sea Dog and Free Range Sailing, both of which are bare bones adventures and down to earth folks. While I subscribe to both, I am not a patron to either of them.

Gary


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

One of the things that I feel is interesting is about sailing vlogs is how many there are, compared to how many there were even five years ago

At this moment, it seems like a sailing vlog is the 'thing to do.'

I often wonder what comes first.. is it sailing or do you want to make a vlog. If it is the latter you have to think

sailing?

building a house?

live in a van?

And if your business plan has anything to do with bikinis, then it is likely sailing

one thing that stands out is people tend to forget who they are (why I like Sailboat story and Adventures of a SeaDog ) like so many others, they don't try to be La Vag or Delos.. they just go off and make videos, relying on themselves as content, not imitating others. One of the things that is annoying to me is when you see a vlog, like sailing doodle loos says: "We need to create content so I am going to Thailand" I want to say --- hey you *are* the content, you don't need to find it!! but he only responds to patreons or people who will buy him a beer

I follow the Sailing-Channel instead of subscribing, much of that has to do with the fact that I am on the net a lot.... I know of new videos from the vlogs I like, almost a day in advance of getting the e-mail.

Most people's vlog to hate is Sailing Miss Lonestar which kind of like it... my personal dislike vlog is Slow Boat Sailing that is because Slowboat is all about trying to find a way to trick people into watching. He will do reviews of the 'popular' vlogs with the thumbnail of that vlog so you might accidentally click on it (click bait) of late he is using some kind of yellow back headlines, that makes him look like the Enquirer. I think my real problem with him is he seems to have that 1980's guy who would find someplace to put up a web page to be an 'expert' but the website always looked like a 15 year old had put the web page together

However good his content is the look is juvenile


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

titustiger27 said:


> One of the things that I feel is interesting is about sailing vlogs is how many there are, compared to how many there were even five years ago
> 
> one thing that stands out is people tend to forget who they are (why I like Sailboat story and Adventures of a SeaDog ) like so many others, they don't try to be La Vag or Delos.. they just go off and make videos, relying on themselves as content, not imitating others. One of the things that is annoying to me is when you see a vlog, like sailing doodle loos says: "We need to create content so I am going to Thailand" I want to say --- hey you *are* the content, you don't need to find it!! but he only responds to patreons or people who will buy him a beer
> 
> ...


Quite agree. I see Little Miss Lonestar is now sailing sailing with some South African blokes with her daughter. How'd that happen? Also found Slow Boat Sailing to the most boring sailor on the Internet. Might be good to click on his channel when trying to get to sleep.


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## jppp (Jul 13, 2008)

......annnnnnd a monkey.


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

Oh God yes I agree! That Slow Boat guy is the most boring clickbait artist on YouTube. Avoid!


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## jppp (Jul 13, 2008)

This is a funny thought. So I watch the refitter sail vlogs. Love Sail Life. Others I've enjoyed as well. But then they finish and go sailing. Not so entertaining anymore. And I think there are 4 or 5 groups "Discovering" the Bahamas at the same time. Surprised they don't bump into each other. 
Liking RAN Sailing. Low key. A little repair thrown in. Interesting locales. 
Christian Williams last video I don't think he said one word. Loved it.

Disclaimer. Once the boat goes in the water I won't have any opinion on this matter until the boat comes out of the water. I gotta move south.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

jppp said:


> ......annnnnnd a monkey.


Yeah her kid has only gotten bit once so far.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

jppp said:


> This is a funny thought. So I watch the refitter sail vlogs. Love Sail Life. Others I've enjoyed as well. But then they finish and go sailing. Not so entertaining anymore. And I think there are 4 or 5 groups "Discovering" the Bahamas at the same time. Surprised they don't bump into each other.
> Liking RAN Sailing. Low key. A little repair thrown in. Interesting locales.
> Christian Williams last video I don't think he said one word. Loved it.
> 
> Disclaimer. Once the boat goes in the water I won't have any opinion on this matter until the boat comes out of the water. I gotta move south.


Actually a lot of them do. I recently saw Old Sea Dog met up with the RAN couple on the other side of the Panama canal. Though Old Sea Dog's channel has him just leaving the San Blas finally.

As for not entertaining I came across another Vlog recently to check them out. After they went to shore and I'm watching them eat a cheeseburger I said that's enough of this.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

mbianka said:


> .....
> As for not entertaining I came across another Vlog recently to check them out. After they went to shore and I'm watching them eat a cheeseburger I said that's enough of this.


Some days they are doing things interesting to others, and some days not so much.
I believe they are on a self-imposed/$motivated schedule with their paid subscribers. No vid that week...no $s.

White Spot does 10min-ish vids. That's not much content for a week...of whatever one is doing.
RAN runs 20min-ish.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Wow... I thought I was the only one who thought Slow Boat was boring and conniving (hard to do both)

Something about Sail Life  1) I am a fan, even though I am not much of a DIY guy... unless I am doing DIY (that is, when I am replacing the headlight bulb in my honda, I find a video, but I generally don't watch DIY.. but Mads is a nice guy so it is watched.... 2) that said, I do find it a little funny that the one time he took a sailing trip he was so sick, he had to leave the boat before they started the Atlantic crossing.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

If their cameras are more like their children rather than their masters, there will be expected lapses.

This is one of those things that...if you haven't done it, you don't know.

Just enjoy.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

mbianka said:


> Quite agree. I see Little Miss Lonestar is now sailing sailing with some South African blokes with her daughter. How'd that happen? Also found Slow Boat Sailing to the most boring sailor on the Internet. Might be good to click on his channel when trying to get to sleep.


Stefan (the South African) is (I think) an investment broker.. and had a sailboat or does have a sailboat.

He had been sailing in the Carribean and was hobnobbing.. he was in a couple Uma videos... weird thing, I posted a question about how he ended up with them and Uma was a little defensive.. or seemed to be and said he is a 'fun guy' as opposed to a mushroom (fungi)

Then Miss Lonestar boat a boat for a $1 up the east coast and that guy showed up and helped her with the boat, then he went back to South Africa and she followed with the daughter, I think the son is with the child's dad in California.

Now that I think about it, I think the lonestar channel started getting better when he appeared ... maybe he had a better camera and a drone...

One thing that is interesting about all the vlogs is you never know where the funding comes from... Lonestar makes $611 (patreon) per vid and whatever they get from youtube... but they have had to buy a computer, a camera or two... airfare.. etc in the last couple months (i.e. it seems like they are spending more than they are making -- but she has another revenue source with Vimeo.. with the allusion you are going to see more flesh if you pay for the extra content).

I think it is interesting that in spite of all the bikini shots in the vlogs, it hardly ever seems like anyone is having sex... even the couples don't seem like couples


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I just watched Lonestar for the first time in a few weeks. The South African dude seems like a decent guy. But there's still some stuff that bothers me. Since she's trying to depict life on a boat, I'd think there'd at least be some mention of "OK, it's time for your schoolwork now." I really worry that the kid is getting NOTHING in the way of any curriculum, and when they return to US for the summer she'll continue to fly under the radar since kids are on summer vacation. And I'm sorry, all the topless kiddie pics from close distance are just clickbait for pedophiles. I wince when that is in the video. I realize they're out in the middle of nowhere where it should be harmless, but putting it in the video is just creepy.


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

She is poison. Plain and simple.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Lonestar has talked about homeschooling that is She has mentioned that the daughter is reading and/or doing math at a grade higher

I will admit, when it comes to formal education, there is a bit missing with that child.... but

you could say that about any education --- home school or not

and the experience she is getting traveling the world has some value..


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I wonder what people think about all the videos in general?

and I mean *All-the-videos*

For the most part I would say I don't need anymore channels. Though I would say some of my favorites no longer exists (sailing with the Pfieffers and there was one that only had about five videos and the guy was dying of some rare disease... I can only assume the end has come, the one the kid did Failing while Sailing and Monday Never)

I look at Sailing Channels mostly to see the new episodes of the ones of what I watch... and it seems like there are three or four new ones every week.

The main reasons new ones don't appeal to me is they start at a place that others took years to get to... Like the channel on the second episode already have a: patreon, paypal, facebook, web page, a drone. And when/if I watch them it will be the 20th time I have seen the island with the pigs. I've had it with sailing channels sitting in front of a camera streaming from some caribean island.

So many channels are in the Caribean that I am surprised to not see four channels in the background of whatever one I am watching at the time.

What also amazes me, it seems like every single channel has enough patreons to make $400 an episode... so there is more disposable income out there than I realize. (even if most of the patreons are familly member)


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## dwedeking (Jan 28, 2007)

titustiger27 said:


> every single channel has enough patreons to make $400 an episode...


That's 80 people paying the equivalent of a fancy cup of coffee an episode. If you have 10,000 youtube subscribers (the new requirement to monetize) that means you've converted around .8% of your fan base to paying customers. This is what I find fascinating about the microfunding tools (Patreon, monetized Youtube, Adsence, GoFundMe etc). Such a minuscule conversion rate, with a low dollar ticket (so little to no adverse affect on payers), yet can dramatically affect the content generators life (let's be honest, a number of these would probably be making the same $$ amount (net) in a day to day job but stuck living in a ****ty apartment with roommates vs island hopping). Solely because of the ability to reach a huge audience even in a micro-niche category.


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## ThereYouAre (Sep 21, 2016)

titustiger27 said:


> I wonder what people think about all the videos in general?
> 
> and I mean *All-the-videos*


They do seem to be springing up like weeds and I tend to ignore them.

While I don't do Patreon I did make small donations to Salt and Tar, Acorn to Arabella, and The Sampson Boat Co. yesterday. I find what they're doing to be much more impressive than cruising the Caribbean while being younger and better looking than me.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I don't believe it is the high life either... but like many business ventures, it is a gamble.. My guess is most dream of being la vag or deloio... but at the very least they are leaving a dream.

And being young and dumb they aren't worried about health insurance or retirement. And when I say 'young and dumb' I don't think they are any dumber than I was at the time. I think back when I was 22 and wonder how I survived knowing so little...

I don't like Patreon either, I don't like contracts in general. My philosophy is if you give a vlogger $1 video, there is no reason that will make them make better videos or start making two a week.

I like making a donation from time to time or purchase a service. I made a donation to Sailing Story for gum for Molly, I bought a coffee press for Wicked Salty (before their boat sank) and for Accidental Sailor Girl I bought her book.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

titustiger27 said:


> I don't believe it is the high life either... but like many business ventures, it is a gamble.. My guess is most dream of being la vag or deloio... but at the very least they are leaving a dream.
> 
> And being young and dumb they aren't worried about health insurance or retirement. And when I say 'young and dumb' I don't think they are any dumber than I was at the time. I think back when I was 22 and wonder how I survived knowing so little...
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm not one to do the Pateron route but, will throw some bucks out here and there. If I like their presentation. Though some are just a little too theatrical for my taste. Just watched the latest La Vag. They ended it with the fellow on his back hinting at a broken neck with them 320 miles into their Atlantic crossing. Will they turn back? Will they continue? Just smelled like "click bait" to me.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I've never donated to any of them. If I became so attached to one that I wanted to make sure it didn't go offline, I'd donate. But nobody I've seen has gotten me anywhere close to that level of attachment. If any of them disappeared, there are dozens of others to take their place. High volume means low cost ($0 in my case).

For the ones that pull patrons' names out of a hat to go cruising with them, I wonder what the cost/benefit analysis is. Do the winners typically get a "free ride" (aside from airfare)? Pay for food only? Or do they just get a "discount"? It's probably been explained on the videos, but I fast forward over that stuff. If the cost of being a patron is low enough and the "entrants" are few enough, something like that might make it worth a few bucks to roll the dice if the captain is qualified. (Are these guys typically licensed to take on passengers, or do they fly under the radar?)


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

The best click bait (or click babe) was some guy who just took videos of his wife in a bikini on the boat and at the beach

The first one wasn't much different than... I only looked at two, so I don't know, but the last I am sure.. but it was clear: "You aren't getting adventure; how to; good conversation --- you are getting wife in a bikini"

Unless I am kind of enjoying the video from before, I get annoyed at clickbait.

And realistically *if* the guy is going to use his wife or girlfriend to 'sell' their video, they are probably jerks in many other ways.

I should point out I don't mind seeing a woman in a bikini.... but when it is just a way to get me to watch an otherways boring video... there are much better places to find titillation.

I wish someone would say to 50% of the vloggers, when you run out of something to say: "um yeah" really isn't a good ending. Just turn the camera off.

As far as taking out patreons out on your boat.... I think mostly the trip is free, but I would guess they don't buy drinks for the visitor

But good point.... I wonder what the insurance companies would say if they knew they were doing chartering without a license. Even if it is free --- one accident and I am sure they would be sued out of existence.

I think this is amazingly true of sailing doodles it's not even their boat.. Which reminds me, about seven months ago they went to Burning Man and they **** about 40 cases of wine to give away. Not sure why anyone would like to be a patreon supporter for their Burning Man charity


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

Many have never formally been trained to sail never mind have deep water charter boat captains licenses and insurance that allows them to take passengers for hire. 

La Vagabonde mentioned once that they had considered taking paying passengers but the licensing and insurance would cost too much for the amount of cabin space they have available so they limit it to just an occasional Patron as guests. The Patrons can contribute toward provisioning if they wish but its not required as then it could be viewed as payment for passage. "Hey I brought beer for the trip" is a bit different than "You can come if you bring the beer" too with the first being an unsolicited gift and the later solicited payment for the trip and technically requiring the skipper to be licensed and insured to take paying passengers.

Patrons typically get access to the latest video around a week before everyone else which is somewhere around a week after the calendar day they finished shooting it so for the general public its about two weeks after the events shown occurred.

On La Vagabonde he had an argument with his girlfriend and fell on deck hitting his head on the helm station chair when he stepped out to walk away from it/mull things over/calm down having a return of symptoms of when he did break his neck and was hospitalized in Brazil some years ago. Shows how easily and simply a life changing event can occur however they were posting facebook pics of a picnic on a beach Easter Sunday in the islands this side of the Atlantic so it appears the symptoms cleared up and they are pressing on to the Patrons meet and greet in Florida.

I am not a Patron myself and being recently optimized and in the process of fixing up a 15 foot picnic sail boat to see if I want to switch gears from Programmer to an occupation that's a little bit less sedentary won't likely consider it until I am employed again. I am partially disabled and walk with a cane so working on the boat while on severance is allowing me to see if doing light repairs and carpentry is viable for me instead of being tied to a desk. I am loosing extra lbs and inches on the belt in the process. Even went out for a motorcycle ride over the weekend (just have to remember to take my folding cane with me).


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

SeaStar58 said:


> ...The Patrons can contribute toward provisioning if they wish but its not required as then it could be viewed as payment for passage. "Hey I brought beer for the trip" is a bit different than "You can come if you bring the beer" too with the first being an unsolicited gift and the later solicited payment for the trip and technically requiring the skipper to be licensed and insured to take paying passengers...


Regardless of who buys the beer and why, the fact that they have to be paying supporters to qualify for the "free" trip makes them paying passengers, IMO. What you describe seems to be an example of playing loose with the rules.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

TakeFive said:


> Regardless of who buys the beer and why, the fact that they have to be paying supporters to qualify for the "free" trip makes them paying passengers, IMO. What you describe seems to be an example of playing loose with the rules.


They also take guests who are not Patrons and will even take someone stranded along to their next port to help them out. They've made it clear though that they are not in the Charter Boat Business and just are making videos to help pay their way while providing alternate content to a Cable TV subscription with thousands of channels of many times duplicate content at different resolutions that most will never be watching though they are paying dearly for each month it.

I tend to be a bit less critical and more forgiving as they had to find a way to filter down all the thousands of requests to join them for a sail. Just the emails in general and thanks must be overwhelming at times.

Since they turned to making videos to pay their way they only realistically get one day per week to sail and spend the bulk of their time taking, editing and delivering video so it is definitely a whole lot of work to pump out the videos. They owe Outremer two videos with a minimum length stipulated each month for 5 years as payment for the boat so there has to be some pressure there too.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

SeaStar58 said:


> ...La Vagabonde mentioned once that they had considered taking paying passengers but the licensing and insurance would cost too much for the amount of cabin space they have available so they limit it to just an occasional *Patron* as guests...





SeaStar58 said:


> They also take guests who are not Patrons and will even take someone stranded along to their next port to help them out. They've made it clear though that they are not in the Charter Boat Business and just are making videos to help pay their way while providing alternate content to a Cable TV subscription with thousands of channels of many times duplicate content at different resolutions that most will never be watching though they are paying dearly for each month it.
> 
> I tend to be a bit less critical and more forgiving as they had to find a way to filter down all the thousands of requests to join them for a sail. Just the emails in general and thanks must be overwhelming at times.
> 
> Since they turned to making videos to pay their way they only realistically get one day per week to sail and spend the bulk of their time taking, editing and delivering video so it is definitely a whole lot of work to pump out the videos. They owe Outremer two videos with a minimum length stipulated each month for 5 years as payment for the boat so there has to be some pressure there too.


That's a lot of weasel words to justify taking out people that you referred to a "Patrons", which are people who paid $$$ for the right to have their names drawn out of a hat for a cruise.

They'll probably get away with it until someone gets hurt and the LEA or attorneys get involved. Then everyone, including the sponsors, will run for the hills. At that point, it won't matter who was buying the beer.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

TakeFive said:


> That's a lot of weasel words to justify taking out people that you referred to a "Patrons", which are people who paid $$$ for the right to have their names drawn out of a hat for a cruise.
> 
> They'll probably get away with it until someone gets hurt and the LEA or attorneys get involved. Then everyone, including the sponsors, will run for the hills. At that point, it won't matter who was buying the beer.


Chill - I was just making a casual comment and not preparing for cross examination by F Lee Bailey when I made the clarification that non-patrons also do at times cruise with them. The Patrons pay for production of a very, very, very low cost video channel and not $$$ (BIG BUCKS) to take a cruise. If you dislike them or they bother you that much perhaps you shouldn't watch any of them and put your $$$ toward Cable or Satellite TV, etc.

BTW: Name calling direct or implied is not good very form either and is tantamount to being an "Internet Bully". I truly hope that was not your intent.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Maybe it's just me since I don't follow the La Vagabound couple all the time but, it seems they are arguing more from hints in the video. Their was the argument where Riley hit his head and had his neck problem return. Then their was a disagreement in the recent provisioning for the Atlantic trip. Riley wanted to stock up on some Chinese Take out "like he used to do when sailing solo" Eylana objected said there was no room. I wonder if the boat is no longer big enough for the two of them  or the pressure to produce video's and sail the boat too is getting to them. Hard to chill when you've got to sail the boat and video log the experience with only two people. At least on S/V Delos they always have a few people who can pick up a camera. Meanwhile Old Sea Dog only has to do what he wants when he wants. He might be the happiest of the lot.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> ...... (Are these guys typically licensed to take on passengers, or do they fly under the radar?)


I'm pretty sure there is an exception to commercial licensing laws, in the US, if passengers are only paying the variable costs of the passage (ie food, fuel and booze are includable, mortgage and insurance are not) and then the boat is making the same voyage, with our without the guest. I believe Delos did this and had calculated it cost $125, per week, per person, for all the above. Not bad.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

The vlog thing may start as fun and then morph into a means to generate income while aboard. Of course this requires a certain level of production and competence... and of course people who are interested enough to pay to view. Many online content providers' sites (income) is supported by advertising... banners and so forth. As obnoxious as advertising is it may be a good alternative... but that depends on the quid pro quo with the advertiser.

As far as content goes....chick bait amounts to a sort of soft porn sprinkled thru and travel log.

The real sailing content is probably slim.. that is, the trials and tribulations of offshore sailing and paradise cruising.. and heavy of show and tell exhibitionism.

There is some value to seeing a few episodes to perhaps get a closer look of what paradise cruising is about. However watching weekly, supporting financially seems a bit odd to me. Of course if the vlogs were of a personal friend it would be a different story.

Not my cupppa but if sailing vlogs float your boat... go for it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Considering bikinis to be soft porn is rather dated. I’m okay with being dated myself, I have plenty of those opinions. However, just look at all the sexually suggestive advertising, during prime time news. How does one explain to a ten year old what the viagra commercials mean. Our society’s moral meter has been recalibrated. On the other hand, I’m not wiling to push the clock entirely back. There are many things for which I’m okay that we have a more tolerant society now. Can’t have it both ways, I suppose.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

SeaStar58 said:


> Chill - I was just making a casual comment and not preparing for cross examination by F Lee Bailey when I made the clarification that non-patrons also do at times cruise with them. The Patrons pay for production of a very, very, very low cost video channel and not $$$ (BIG BUCKS) to take a cruise. If you dislike them or they bother you that much perhaps you shouldn't watch any of them and put your $$$ toward Cable or Satellite TV, etc.
> 
> BTW: Name calling direct or implied is not good very form either and is tantamount to being an "Internet Bully". I truly hope that was not your intent.


Mine was just a casual comment too. I'm entitled to state my opinion, and if it happens to disagree with you, that does not make me a bully. I never even came close to calling you a name. I'm not sure why you're so eager to justify this one couple's practices, but I fully acknowledge that it's your right to do so if you want to. However, I don't really care about them because I don't watch their videos.

I've made it clear before which vlogs I like/dislike, and also made it clear that I pay $0 for all of them. I watched one SLV video way back when they had a mono, and there was no connection for me, so I never watched them again. (I learned that they got a new cat from posts here.)

Any comments that I made regarding SLV were based solely on what you posted, not on anything I saw on their videos. When I used the pronoun "they" I was referring to several vlogs that seem to be promising cruises for their paying viewers. However, I'd be hard-pressed to say which ones those are, because they tend to be the ones I watch a couple times and don't go back to.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

Minnewaska said:


> Considering bikinis to be soft porn is rather dated. I'm okay with being dated myself, I have plenty of those opinions. However, just look at all the sexually suggestive advertising, during prime time news. How does one explain to a ten year old what the viagra commercials mean. Our society's moral meter has been recalibrated. On the other hand, I'm not wiling to push the clock entirely back. There are many things for which I'm okay that we have a more tolerant society now. Can't have it both ways, I suppose.


Priorities are kinda strange. *turns on TV* Merciless violence and slaughter...no problem. The human body...oh no! The children! Cover your eyes!

That said...what is the business case for a boating vlog that doesn't feature nubile flesh glistening in the tropical sun? I'd love to see some sailing series that feature the Patagonian fjords and canals. Or the coast of Norway. Or the Northwest Passages. Or Japan, even!

But the higher the latitude, the more layers that tend to be wrapped around the female form, the fewer people willing to watch.


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## ThereYouAre (Sep 21, 2016)

Not a vlog but you may like this documentary. I haven't watched the whole thing yet.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

amwbox said:


> Priorities are kinda strange. *turns on TV* Merciless violence and slaughter...no problem. The human body...oh no! The children! Cover your eyes!
> 
> That said...what is the business case for a boating vlog that doesn't feature nubile flesh glistening in the tropical sun? I'd love to see some sailing series that feature the Patagonian fjords and canals. Or the coast of Norway. Or the Northwest Passages. Or Japan, even!
> 
> But the higher the latitude, the more layers that tend to be wrapped around the female form, the fewer people willing to watch.


I am not sure... violence would never be considered 'click bait' for me. I personally avoid entertainment that features violence, and I am not sure exactly how you would click bait it --- have the thumbnail have blood dripping ?

either way, I would (and do) have a problem when you are using a girlfriend/wife to exploint so people will watch your video... Megan in Sailing doo doo seemed to have some kind of agreement that she could sail and enjoy the boat life for free, as long as bobby could get a lot of bikini shots....

I guess when I really think about it, I don't have much of a problem of putting an attractive woman on the cover if you have a decent video.

Just the opposite kind of happened about six weeks ago Rick Moore (it was a different name at the time, he keeps changing the name.. He had a thumb nail that was gratuitous .. I clicked more to see what was up.. It was him with a speech about sex sells and how "See you click just because of the bikinis" which was only part of it... so I clicked off and haven't watched his videos since

It is kind of interesting how now that there are more videos than you can watch in a day, it is easy to say goodbye to people

I feel the same about Lazy Gecko... first they decided they could make more money on Vimeo.. after a month they came back to youtube, sort of --- they just put small videos there as commercials for vimeo.... eventually they realized that no one was spending money to take a chance on their videos...

Since I was out of the habit of watching... I moved on

as far as videos from the Caribbean. It is one of the reasons some vlogs have 'seasons' they take several months off from their real life, sail the Caribe for 13 weeks and that is season one.. Or that is why I think they don't sail to Tahitti... plus that would be a long trip that they couldn't turn into 10 episodes


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

TakeFive said:


> Mine was just a casual comment too. I'm entitled to state my opinion, and if it happens to disagree with you, that does not make me a bully. I never even came close to calling you a name. I'm not sure why you're so eager to justify this one couple's practices, but I fully acknowledge that it's your right to do so if you want to. However, I don't really care about them because I don't watch their videos...


You may not have intended to but you did imply I was a weasel with the comment about weasily words. Yes you can disagree and have a different opinion but calling someone weasily because you disagree with them really is bullying.

In a work environment I would have no choice but to reprimand or terminate an employee who made a publicly verifiable statement to or about a co-worker, client or even a casual acquaintance while on company time or while using company equipment even if I agreed with them.

As for the couple (only speaking of SLV) they appear to have worked hard to get where they are so I am not inclined to Vilify them for allowing, after so many requests to do so, some of those that view their channel to join them on their boat. They appear to have been taking the occasional guest even before they went to the Patron System and just posted an occasional video so viewer or not they already have been taking guests for a while. It does not appear to just be a Patron oriented perk that they added but something they did all along so I am inclined to be a bit more tolerant and forgiving. To me the main Patron Perk on SLV really is getting to view the programs the day they are uploaded and not after a one week public delay however I am patient and can wait a week or so.

I am not a Patron of any channels either but hope to slide into being a more kindly and forgiving senior citizen and try to politely as I can point out when someone is crossing the line with me. I know that I am not 100% up to speed on this but be assured I will do my best to not call you a weasel or any other names, cuss at you or imply you lack in intelligence when addressing you directly or posting about you.

Like I said time to Chill and not get so worked up over something as trivial as an Entertainment Channel on the Tube.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I just decided to buy a Delos t-shirt. Call me crazy. 

I’ve been living aboard all week. Commissioning for the season. No water in the tanks, as it was 25 degrees last night. Bottled water only. Fridge is full and heat pumps are working. Shoreside heads and showers are operable. While I can’t wait to get off the dock, this has been my own little adventure this week. Literally no one else here, in the water, not even my wife. She’s coming tonight. 

I watched the most recent Delos vid his morning. It was a nice day dream break of sailing across the Atlantic in warm weather. 

Now back to that generator zinc I can’t reach........


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

Rick Moore is nothing more than an alcoholic that sails between the same two or three islands. Tuned out of his channel long ago.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

SeaStar58 said:


> You may not have intended to but you did imply I was a weasel with the comment about weasily words. Yes you can disagree and have a different opinion but calling someone weasily because you disagree with them really is bullying.
> 
> In a work environment I would have no choice but to reprimand or terminate an employee who made a publicly verifiable statement to or about a co-worker, client or even a casual acquaintance while on company time or while using company equipment even if I agreed with them...


I think we know who needs to chill.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

titustiger27 said:


> either way, I would (and do) have a problem when you are using a girlfriend/wife to exploint so people will watch your video... Megan in Sailing doo doo seemed to have some kind of agreement that she could sail and enjoy the boat life for free, as long as bobby could get a lot of bikini shots....


I don't know about that spcific channel, but for the most part I don't get an exploitative vibe from this stuff. In the case of SLV it was the girlfriend who started making and editing the videos. She knows she's a 10. And it's not just genetics, she spends a lot of time working out and not eating to look that way. A lot of people are narcissistic and actually enjoy showing themselves off and being looked at. She knows how she looks. She knows people like to look. And she likes it. And that is _fine._

Same goes with Delos...I'm betting most of the editing work is done by Karen. It's not like these people are unaware of the nudist tendencies of that particular boat. They know the good bits are going to be blurred out. They're young and good looking and they know it. They know what they're doing picking those thumbnails. They're fine with it. More power to them, I say.

The point I was making about TV and movies was simply that somehow it's PG-13 to watch someone get tortured and murdered on screen...but a nipple is verboten. It's just insane, that logical inversion.


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

amwbox said:


> The point I was making about TV and movies was simply that somehow it's PG-13 to watch someone get tortured and murdered on screen...but a nipple is verboten. It's just insane, that logical inversion.


We raised our kid at the same time as another couple: 
In our house we watched Austin Powers but not Gladiator.
In their house they watched Gladiator but not Austin Powers.​
Different strokes for different folks. I will note that we are agnostic at best and they were good catholics. We've always posited the puritan-ness that seems to divide America from Europe to be a result of the Pilgrims way back then.

And I'm a sucker for chick-bait everytime


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

amwbox said:


> I don't know about that spcific channel, but for the most part I don't get an exploitative vibe from this stuff. In the case of SLV it was the girlfriend who started making and editing the videos. She knows she's a 10. And it's not just genetics, she spends a lot of time working out and not eating to look that way. A lot of people are narcissistic and actually enjoy showing themselves off and being looked at. She knows how she looks. She knows people like to look. And she likes it. And that is _fine._
> 
> Same goes with Delos...I'm betting most of the editing work is done by Karen. It's not like these people are unaware of the nudist tendencies of that particular boat. They know the good bits are going to be blurred out. They're young and good looking and they know it. They know what they're doing picking those thumbnails. They're fine with it. More power to them, I say.
> 
> The point I was making about TV and movies was simply that somehow it's PG-13 to watch someone get tortured and murdered on screen...but a nipple is verboten. It's just insane, that logical inversion.


I don't think all sailing vlogs exploit women (or men)... and I don't think all videos with women in bikini's exploit women... not even most.. and that especially goes for Delios and La Vag-- which seem to be the most respectful

Maybe it isn't obvious, but to me it seems like there are some that they are doing whatever they can to make you look at their video, everything but interesting content.

to me--- it is just how you play it out. Like one of my favorites Sailboat Story does some.. but it is fun.. or to me. Like he will start to pan to his wife's chest or her underarm and she will yell at him to knock it off. In the end I am pretty sure she gets the final say what goes in the video, so I don't think it isn't so bad.

Mainly my problem is when I feel tricked. There are sailing vlogs that have thumbnails of images that don't even have in the actual video


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

Well...clickbait works. Look at this: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr9pCaMpbVNa6OHC4We2nTA/videos?flow=grid&view=0&sort=p

Of all those videos, some of which are quite good, which has far and away the most views? Give the people what they want.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

amwbox said:


> Well...clickbait works. Look at this: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr9pCaMpbVNa6OHC4We2nTA/videos?flow=grid&view=0&sort=p
> 
> Of all those videos, some of which are quite good, which has far and away the most views? Give the people what they want.


While gazing at female forms has it's place. I'm also interested in repairs and maintenance that happens. I'm especially keen on seeing engine access on the different boats. Even watching oil change procedures is fun since I no longer have to do it on mine.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I wouldn't really count SV Prism as click bait

but I think your point is valid... if I understand the point.

Take a look at any sailing channel and by far the videos that have the most views (I would suggest clicks not views because I bet a lot of people click on the videos and away kind of fast) are those with thumbnails of women flesh

I am not sure if that is of value... like I would be most of those don't come back... but as for revenue from youtube, doesn't hurt to have a lot of views

which may or may not be why SV Prism doesn't use the bikini thumbnail as much as they used to.

What is funny to me is all the clicks on bikinis and not the others, for example, Sailing Uma has the highest clicks on bikini thumbs, but they have many other vids with bikini attire (they are sponsored by a bikini company) yet people do go there to oogle..

in the end, I have to wonder, if you are looking for flesh, why are you depending on sailing videos--- there is more than enough porn around to meet those 'needs'
:kiss


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

Reminds me of the often used phrase from the past 'I look at Playboy Magazine for the articles'.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I've heard Playboy no longer has nudes

and when people used to say they read for the articles, I am not sure if that was a bad idea...

Many of the top writers had stories published in it and many mover and shakers were interviewed in the magazine

To compare the women and content of 99% of sailing vlogs would just be wrong


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

Titustiger27

I am not the one who posted #315, you did. You said people went to sailing vlogs to see flesh and to oogle. I only stated what your post reminded me of, how can that be wrong? You don't need to answer, I don't want to get in an argument over nothing.


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## overthehorizon (Apr 7, 2018)

Decades ago, before internet, young cruisers had to be trust funders to be able to cruise unencumbered. The rest of us were always looking for a temporary job in the charter fleet or any where doing anything to help pay for a bit of food and help to get to the next destination. In American Samoa, a friend and I had to make Mako shark tooth necklaces to sell to tourists. Talk about living in poverty. What a nice idea making videos and have people send you money….But how time consuming and distracting of what cruising is really about. There is no easier money to be made than in the U.S.. Stay at a job, make the money before heading out.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Argument?

I think there have always been people who have tried to profit from what they love (Christopher Columbus, Joshua Slocum), ... even without making videos.. and usually not so successfully. Either you got someone (like a queen) to fund you or you wrote a book.... People did it with riding a bicycle around the world or other means of travel as well. But only so many people can profit off of an idea.*

[This is why I am so surprised that there are not only a lot of sailing vlogs popping up each day, but that many have a couple hundred dollars of patreon support.]

Those people were often revered as adventurers. I'm guessing that was because people at the time had little access to the world, or (like me) either they were too afraid to do the travel or didn't want to make the sacrifices to do so.

In the 1980's alpine skiing was big and a lot of people became ski bums. I am sure if there was youtube back then there would have been lots of travel/ski blogs... or maybe not, but one thing was a factor: if you wanted to ski, you still had to find income, so many ski bums were lift operators, bartenders (sold grizzly bear teeth necklaces?)

As the saying goes, if you want to be a skier don't move to a ski town.

Sailing vlogs have things that early profiteers didn't... One is easy access. I could turn on my webcam and start talking about sailing and put it on the internet. I don't have to have a publisher or editor expecting me to know what I am talking about or have actually even been on a boat.

As far as click bait, sex has always been a selling point in marketing. Where would the playboy articles be without a centerfold to give your eyes a rest?

It is interesting to me that, probably like cruising in general, the sailing vlogs tend to be about couples (with a few notable singles). Unlike what I have read, most of the vlogs are people under 35 and I think cruising is usually people older than that.

_* back in 1990's there was a guy who had a christmas ornament shop. He was kind of a cheap deal. He would buy ornaments from somewhere for 10¢ then with a sharpy write "Lake Placid 1992" on it and sold it to people for $2. He was pretty successful for a while. Mostly because people were always looking for a cheap souvenir.

Another guy came along and opened a higher end place, with about 10 times the space. All the t-shirt and sweater shops concuded there must be money in xmas ornaments so in 1994 you could by christmas ornament in just about every store in LP.

By 1999, there were no ornament shops, the market had become so saturated that no one could profit.
_


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

I've noticed an interesting trend with Sailing doodles --- tie-in marketing.

He has been doing it for a while, but I notice it to be more a concerted effort.

He always made a point of talking about the bars and attractions he went to, making his videos more of a travel guide. Also inserting history and other info (Lazy Gecko has always done this)

But of late doodles has become commercials for places like wildlife tours, spearfishing guides, restaurants and other businesses in the area he visits. I think he either gets those services at a discount or for free.

A recent video has him doing a commercial for another vlogger -- some guy who lives in a van. I don't find his vlog as entertaining as others (partially because these 'commercials' feel like they were made by a high school A/V student -- his delivery feels wooden, but I assume that will get better), but it is clear he has some sort of a business plan to stay profitable.


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

titustiger27 said:


> I wouldn't really count SV Prism as click bait
> 
> but I think your point is valid... if I understand the point.
> 
> ...


To be clear, not saying Prism is clickbait...just pointing out how effective that particular thumbnail was. The actual content of the video didn't matter to those half a million plus people who clicked, when you consider that the rest of their videos generally don't even get a 10th of the traffic. You look at Delos, look at the their choice of thumbs a few years back when they were growing faster....it was a lot of blurred out nude girls in the sun.

Or if you look at tech channels and such....completely crazy, almost cartoonishly exaggerated antics in the thumbnails.

Just saying. _It works. _


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Bleemus said:


> Rick Moore is nothing more than an alcoholic that sails between the same two or three islands. Tuned out of his channel long ago.


Me too. Though he has been Vlogging for a long time. I get turned off by his wanna be a Pirate/Jimmy Buffet Margaritaville lifestyle persona. Plus something about seeing that Parrot in the cage bothers me. At least Miss Lone Star plans to get rid of their monkey at some point. Pets in general on board are just a distraction IMO. I'm getting tired of shots of sleeping Cats etc...


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

mbianka said:


> Me too. Though he has been Vlogging for a long time. I get turned off by his wanna be a Pirate/Jimmy Buffet Margaritaville lifestyle persona. Plus something about seeing that Parrot in the cage bothers me. At least Miss Lone Star plan to get rid of their monkey at some point. Pets in general on board are just a distraction IMO. I get tired of shots of sleeping Cats etc...


I don't remember for sure, but IIRC it was Miss Poison who talked him into getting that parrot...either that, or maybe she brought it onboard with her and left it there. But I think the original parrot she brought had to be gotten rid of because of a nervous condition that caused him to pluck all his own feathers out. (A toxic woman like that will do that to ya!)


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

TakeFive said:


> I don't remember for sure, but IIRC it was Miss Poison who talked him into getting that parrot...either that, or maybe she brought it onboard with her and left it there. But I think the original parrot she brought had to be gotten rid of because of a nervous condition that caused him to pluck all his own feathers out. (A toxic woman like that will do that to ya!)


or maybe the parrot was just trying to get as naked as the partying crew it was seeing.  Though I suspect it was not having a good time being locked up in the cage.


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

TakeFive said:


> I don't remember for sure, but IIRC it was Miss Poison who talked him into getting that parrot...either that, or maybe she brought it onboard with her and left it there. But I think the original parrot she brought had to be gotten rid of because of a nervous condition that caused him to pluck all his own feathers out. (A toxic woman like that will do that to ya!)


See, that right there is why it all goes wrong. Rick had a parrot (Lucky) for years before Lonestar even started boating. Don't let your prejudices propagate unreality. You don't like her. Fine. Neither do I. Don't make sh*t up and cover your ass with IIRC...


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I didn’t make anything up. She had a parrot on her boat that was repossessed. I thought she brought it with her. Maybe it was just the cage that she brought, but I thought I saw them shopping for a cage in one episode, so that doesn’t make sense. 

I’m not gonna waste time going back to re-watch. You’re welcome to if you want to report back. Meanwhile, it’s IIRC.


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

He has had two parrots during his online life. One died. He had the second before she came on board. The cage was getting rusty and she was there when he took delivery of his second cage.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

amwbox said:


> To be clear, not saying Prism is clickbait...just pointing out how effective that particular thumbnail was. The actual content of the video didn't matter to those half a million plus people who clicked, when you consider that the rest of their videos generally don't even get a 10th of the traffic. You look at Delos, look at the their choice of thumbs a few years back when they were growing faster....it was a lot of blurred out nude girls in the sun.
> 
> Or if you look at tech channels and such....completely crazy, almost cartoonishly exaggerated antics in the thumbnails.
> 
> Just saying. _It works. _


Sorry, didn't mean to imply that... in fact my addtion of Sailing Uma was to show I think you are right

In the end though, I think the vloggers that want 'real views' ( and I don't have a definition what that means) and not people who just come there to look at women... I would guess the comments are better..

One thing about sailing vlogs is it offeres the perfect opportunity for youtube videos.... scenic locations, your home is your transportation and provides you a place to edit video as you travel --- I haven't see many RV videos, but it seems like they would be good to watch.

If someone was touring on a bicycle, not so easy to edit as you travel


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

amwbox said:


> ...The actual content of the video didn't matter to those half a million plus people who clicked...


A click is a click based on Youtube's counter. Whether people actually watched the video, scanned through quickly, or got bored and stopped after a couple minutes is another matter.


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## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

With the interest in sailing down - why not give the people what they seem to want - porno on a sailboat - could be a good marketing move by the industry - you might not get the videos on Youtube but I am sure there are sites to post them.

Sailboat manufacturers could team up with the porn industry and shoot their videos on sailboats all over the world. If chicks in bikinis increase clicks imagine what a good porno could do for the industry. Start with star power plus a great name for a sailing porno actress - Stormy.

(Just a disclaimer since anything you post on the internet lasts forever - this is a tongue in cheek suggestion)


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

cdy said:


> With the interest in sailing down - why not give the people what they seem to want - porno on a sailboat - could be a good marketing move by the industry - you might not get the videos on Youtube but I am sure there are sites to post them.
> 
> Sailboat manufacturers could team up with the porn industry and shoot their videos on sailboats all over the world. If chicks in bikinis increase clicks imagine what a good porno could do for the industry. Start with star power plus a great name for a sailing porno actress - Stormy.
> 
> (Just a disclaimer since anything you post on the internet lasts forever - this is a tongue in cheek suggestion)


Seriously it's already been done. Some powerboat guy out of Miami a Captain X (don't know his name) would bring a "lady" or two on board and make a video. Signature ending was at the end the girl(s) were thrown off the boat into the water naked.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

that said

I don't think there is much sailboat porn

_so I've been told_ :laugher


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## redfishnc (Jan 22, 2017)

Funny how many have a cable bill north of 100 and more to watch nothingness. I enjoy these guys and if you don't want to give you can still watch them for free. Just like everything there are good, great, and terrible and everything in between. I enjoy the ones that are all about sailing and the ones that are adventure videos with sailing and enjoying life. The other part is I elect not to have cable, yes to netflix and watching youtube. No to cable.


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

by cable you mean TV, I have 'cable' but it is for my internet

I do pay for MLB audio.
Most of my 'tv' is sailing Vlogs, SNL, and the Late Night and the Late Show


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## titustiger27 (Jan 17, 2013)

Something --- I have said a lot about using bikini (or less) shots... but I also understand the marketing of it and just the plainly obvious.

If you had a choice of thumbs... why not pick the bikini shot

My more recent favorite video is La Vida a Vela which has nudity in it. Certainly the nudity is not a problem for me.. but what I really like about it is it had a real François Truffaut movie feel to it... (though the people aren't French they are Catalan..)

There is a lot of cinema verite, in that they will video them having dinner at a restaurant and not talking for the video, though the camera will do some scenic pans.

The thing I like (involving the nudity) there is a playful sense of catch some nudity.. like in the recent video there is a shot of the wife sleeping where -- as the sheet shifts -- reveals the wife torso...


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

Looks like Lazy Gecko is getting more risque.

For various prices per month she will "get to know you better".

The more you pay the better she will know you.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I guess her husband isn't knowing her well enough.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> I guess her husband isn't knowing her well enough.


Probably more like hubby is wearing gold bling and driving a caddy with 22" spinners....


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