# Catalina or Hunter?



## JTSmith (Sep 7, 2014)

Yeah, yeah, I know, most of you will shout "NEITHER!" But let's skip that part. Here's my thing. After years of chartering, I'm buying and planning to live aboard. The parameters of that are these: $50k boat budget. 34-36 boat length. Beamy enough to be comfortable below. That said, I've narrowed the search down to Catalina and Hunter 34-36s. Which direction should I go?

Let the production boat bashing begin.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

At this point, isn't it which one YOU prefer?

If you scroll down to Similar Threads at the bottom of the page, you'll see five other threads on the same topic. Silly to start yet another one just for giggles.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

I owned a Catalina before my present boat, and have much respect for them, and would greatly prefer a Catalina to a Hunter, but why would you limit your choices to those two boats when there are so many other good boats to choose from? I'm not going to try to list all the possible good choices, but I'd look for the best quality in the best condition that met my criteria for my intended use and performance standards, and that was within my budget. IMO, those things trump any brand name.


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## JTSmith (Sep 7, 2014)

DRFerron said:


> At this point, isn't it which one YOU prefer?
> 
> If you scroll down to Similar Threads at the bottom of the page, you'll see five other threads on the same topic. Silly to start yet another one just for giggles.


Kinda snarky, but okay.

First, I did search and like every other forum software everywhere else (and I've moderated a few) the search function is less than optimal and provided ambiguous results.

Second, I like many things about both. But since I've owned neither, I thought I'd ask the opinions of others more knowledgable. Isn't that the point of the forums?

Third, I didn't do this for giggles. This is a lot of money. It will be my home for the foreseeable future. And I am horrified to make a $50,000 mistake.

Finally, what's the purpose of being mean? I really want some help and you've just succeeded in making me feel bad. Would have taken you fewer keystrokes to have just told me to sod off.


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## JTSmith (Sep 7, 2014)

Sailormon6 said:


> I owned a Catalina before my present boat, and have much respect for them, and would greatly prefer a Catalina to a Hunter, but why would you limit your choices to those two boats when there are so many other good boats to choose from? I'm not going to try to list all the possible good choices, but I'd look for the best quality in the best condition that met my criteria for my intended use and performance standards, and that was within my budget. IMO, those things trump any brand name.


Cause, eventually, you gotta narrow it down. I need/want room below. I'm not making ocean passages, just coastal/Caribbean. I don't like the French boats. I've got about ten boats on my list to see on a ten-day trip to Florida and, with the exception of an O'Day 37 CC, they're all Catalina's and Hunters. I'm an old sailor but new buyer. Am I doing this wrong?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I had a C27. It was pretty nice and we sailed the hell out of it. I now have a Hunter 40. It's freakin' awesome.

From what I found in my particular searching (based on my own needs), I could get a lot more boat for the money with Hunters. And I just didn't think I was giving up anything really important. Here's my rationale and process if you're interested:

http://bfsshop.com/blog/?p=54

Welcome to SN dude.


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## alctel (Jan 25, 2014)

I have a 1980 Hunter 36 (one of the Cherubini designed ones), that I got a good deal on and liveaboard on it.

I really like her, a lot, and she's built like a tank. Kind of slow though, but she's roomy for a boat of that vintage, and I like the lines on her - easy engine/propshaft access as well. And a backstay 

I hear the hunter 37 cutters from the early 80s are great as well


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

JTSmith said:


> ...
> 
> Let the production boat bashing begin.


That^^ implied that you weren't serious. My apologies if you are.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

If I was looking at 34-36 footers in the $50K range as a liveaboard I'd be concerned with the following:

How comfortable is the boat both down below and in the cockpit. Are there "nooks" where you can settle in and get comfortable with a book or watching TV? Are the berths big enough to sleep comfortably? Is the head big enough to shower comfortably? Are their any head bangers?

Is the galley set up to cook real meals, with enough storage for pots, pans and dry goods? Is the fridge big enough to hold more than a days supplies?

Condition of systems - engine, electrical, instruments, sails, sheets, halyards. 

Previous owners, did they do maintenance and did they bugger things up?

Condition of the hull. Any blistering, soft decks or previous fiberglass repairs?

In a late 80's early 90's boat comfort and maintenance items would trump brand for me. I'm a big fan of Catalina but I'd take a well loved Hunter over a beat up Cat.

Once you settle on a specific boat a new post will get you specifics from current owners.


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## JTSmith (Sep 7, 2014)

smackdaddy said:


> I had a C27. It was pretty nice and we sailed the hell out of it. I now have a Hunter 40. It's freakin' awesome.
> 
> From what I found in my particular searching (based on my own needs), I could get a lot more boat for the money with Hunters. And I just didn't think I was giving up anything really important. Here's my rationale and process if you're interested:
> 
> Welcome to SN dude.


SDaddy:

Thanks for that. The blog entry was excellent and most helpful. And the blog, well, let's just say "bookmarked." Outstanding. Love your boat, your kids look great. And so, so sorry for your loss.

My leanings are basically Hunter. You've about got me to the tipping point. Just got an email from a St Pete broker that an '84 40 Legend has just come on the market. Waiting for pics. $49k.

Thanks again.


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

I'm obviously partial to Catalina, having a 34 footer. A buddy has the 36. Difference in space is minimal but they have completely different layouts. The 34 is a big 34 with the head next to the companionway steps. The 36 is a small 36 with the head up forward. I think the difference in beam is about 1 inch with the overall length difference being about 1 foot. 
With a budget of $50k, you should be able to get either from about the mid 90's in good condition.


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## JTSmith (Sep 7, 2014)

DRFerron said:


> That^^ implied that you weren't serious. My apologies if you are.


Donna:

That part was intended to be humorous. The rest not. Apology graciously accepted. And returned. My "big sensitive man" meter maybe a little high today.


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## tomandchris (Nov 11, 2009)

JTSmith said:


> Kinda snarky, but okay.
> 
> First, I did search and like every other forum software everywhere else (and I've moderated a few) the search function is less than optimal and provided ambiguous results.
> 
> ...


Well, aren't you easily offended? You were being directed to similar threads to do research. Period. Many people are bothered by duplication the same old question with the same answers. You are welcome to the forum, but just because you are new does not make you special in anyones eyes. Try asking this question on Sailing Anarchy and see what snarky really is.

That being said, both companies have made some good boats in that range. Some years better than others. Do your research and you will find them. Then decide if you are living aboard or sailing which are not always the same thing. Then kick a lot of tires and when screams at you...get it surveyed.

For $50K you can buy mid eigthies C34's and C36's. Most will need some work and many will need new sails if you plan to sail it a lot.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

JTSmith said:


> Kinda snarky, but okay.
> 
> Third, I didn't do this for giggles. This is a lot of money. It will be my home for the foreseeable future. And I am horrified to make a $50,000 mistake.
> 
> .


I don't see how you could call a recommendation to get the boat that YOU like best "snarky".

The $50k mistake would be get a boat an unknown internet forum recommends instead of the boat YOU liked best.

I have had a Hunter 410 for 4 years now. I find it to be a GREAT boat that sails fast and well and is well but together. Yes it could be "fancier" and there are some things I would change (but all would require a bigger boat).


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

I have owned a C34 for fifteen years and have been very happy with it. It is a big boat and is actually closer to 35 feet than 34. The C34 and C36 are very similar. The main difference being the cabin lay-out. They handle about the same with the C36 feeling a little bit “heavier” IMHO in a seaway (I have had lots of experience with the C36 too.) The vast, vast majority of C34s are still afloat and most of their owners are members of the C34 Association. I recommend you go to C34IA.org and do some more research before you buy.

I disagree with the comment about varying quality over the years for the Catalina. My experience has been Catalina has maintained high engineering standards and build quality. I was National Measurer for the C34IA for a number of years and have looked at and measured many, many boats. There is no one year that is above (or below) the rest. One thing that Catalina does that is somewhat unique is they maintain production of a single hull size over many years. During that time they are constantly doing “tweaks” to the design based on owner feedback. Sometimes these are grouped into block upgrades (like Mk1 ½, Mk2 or sometimes Mk3. So if you buy a newer version, it will have incorporated owner comments up to that point in time.


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

I've seen a lot of Hunters and Catalinas in that size range. I've always favored the Catalinas, but that is just because I like the way they look and are layed out. Which is the point: they are very similar - so go with the one that speaks to you. The one exception is that good maintenance and gear always trumps esthetic issues. Each model has pluses and minuses, same with individual boats.


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## JTSmith (Sep 7, 2014)

tomandchris said:


> Well, aren't you easily offended? You were being directed to similar threads to do research. Period. Many people are bothered by duplication the same old question with the same answers. You are welcome to the forum, but just because you are new does not make you special in anyones eyes. Try asking this question on Sailing Anarchy and see what snarky really is.
> 
> That being said, both companies have made some good boats in that range. Some years better than others. Do your research and you will find them. Then decide if you are living aboard or sailing which are not always the same thing. Then kick a lot of tires and when screams at you...get it surveyed.
> 
> For $50K you can buy mid eigthies C34's and C36's. Most will need some work and many will need new sails if you plan to sail it a lot.


Thanks for the input. And sorry for the whining. Trying to sell a house, deal with the IRS and tuition payments gone awry to two separate universities today and it's turning me into a big baby. Better now. 

BTW, I did ask the same question on Sailing Anarchy and got some good advice there, too. Though I did get flogged for not posting a booby pic. 

Thanks again!


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Catalina - Next question!


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## JTSmith (Sep 7, 2014)

SHNOOL said:


> Catalina - Next question!


Simple and direct. I like it. Let's see if you can do it again. Rum or Bourbon?


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Can I play? Definitely Rum (Mai Tai’s taste terrible when you make them with bourbon).

Next Competition: Whiskey or Tequila?


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## JTSmith (Sep 7, 2014)

GeorgeB said:


> Can I play? Definitely Rum (Mai Tai's taste terrible when you make them with bourbon).
> 
> Next Competition: Whiskey or Tequila?


Depends. Bourbon or Scotch?


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I suspect either would work for what you want to do. When you start to get serious about a particular model spend quite a bit of time on it imagining how you would do things - everything from cooking (storage, countertop space, location, etc) to curling up with a book. How is each boat on a passage are there good strong handholds placed in logical places. How tall do you have to be to get from place to place outside and especially inside in a seaway. I was on a Hunter 50 at the boat show a couple of years ago and it looked like a very comfy live aboard but I could not imagine how you were supposed to get across the cabin short of crawling. There was one spot, where you would commonly go and there was no handhold especially for a shorter person. BTW, not sure how you are defining 'the Caribbean' but there are certainly ocean passage involved.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

Both can be potentially good boats for your intended purpose (living aboard) and budget ($50k). You'll likely find that some of the larger Hunters (37 Legend, etc.) may be available, or put another way, you may generally be able to afford slightly "more" Hunter at this budget.

For the sake of full disclosure, we own a Catalina 34 and are very pleased with build quality, value, roominess, and accommodations compared to other boats in the same price/age range. We kicked the keels on all the models you're considering and many more. We ended up with the C34 because it represented an excellent value and provided roominess for my wife and I plus our three young daughters. Both the overall value of C34s and the specific value of our C34 (new diesel w/ ~40 hours, new sails, new canvas, new cabin upholstery, etc.) were hard to pass up in the <$50k range. Catalina's customer service and available parts is also plus. So is the huge and helpful C34/C36 community.

I liked the H34/37 and probably would have been happy with either if I could have found one in acceptable condition. The truth is, it's downright difficult to find a well-cared for boat these days that's of an older vintage, regardless of brand.

You'll know the right boat when you see it. She'll call your name!


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## JTSmith (Sep 7, 2014)

killarney_sailor said:


> I suspect either would work for what you want to do. When you start to get serious about a particular model spend quite a bit of time on it imagining how you would do things - everything from cooking (storage, countertop space, location, etc) to curling up with a book. How is each boat on a passage are there good strong handholds placed in logical places. How tall do you have to be to get from place to place outside and especially inside in a seaway. I was on a Hunter 50 at the boat show a couple of years ago and it looked like a very comfy live aboard but I could not imagine how you were supposed to get across the cabin short of crawling. There was one spot, where you would commonly go and there was no handhold especially for a shorter person. BTW, not sure how you are defining 'the Caribbean' but there are certainly ocean passage involved.


At 6'3", the question for me is how small do you have to be to go below.  And when I spoke of ocean passages, I meant something like a transpac. I don't have a problem crossing the stream or getting from the Bahamas to the DR. Couple days is fine. Fifteen is a different story.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

The one thing that I would say is that at various times I have looked at Hunters, Catalinas and Beneteaus of the same era. Generally, the Beneteaus were in better condition, had nicer details, and generally were more sophisticated designs in terms of rig and hull forms. I say generally since Beneteau has also produced some turkeys. My impression jumping from boat to boat is that the Catalinas generally held up the worst of the three. In talking with surveyors, they generally concluded that of the three Hunter did a better overall job of meeting the various guidelines and regulations. 

Jeff


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Interesting comment Jeff. Here in windy San Francisco, C34’s and C36’s command premium prices whereas I know of two brokers who are reluctant to list Hunters as they are generally hard to resell out here. I myself, get one to two unsolicited offers on my C34 each year.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

Here is my general impression. It is that Hunter seem to have pretty much prioritised interior space over everything else, increasingly over the last couple of decades. Catalinas seem to be much more respected as sailing machines. Indeed the C42 is one of the most ubiquitous larger boats here in SF Bay. 

They are both built to a price, sure, but Catalina still place a higher emphasis on sailing properties.

Applying the principle of if it looks right, it probably is, if you place a C42 next to a Hunter, it is clear to me which has better lines and looks more like a sailboat.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Catalina, rum, scotch.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Jeff_H said:


> The one thing that I would say is that at various times I have looked at Hunters, Catalinas and Beneteaus of the same era. Generally, the Beneteaus were in better condition, had nicer details, and generally were more sophisticated designs in terms of rig and hull forms. I say generally since Beneteau has also produced some turkeys. My impression jumping from boat to boat is that the Catalinas generally held up the worst of the three. In talking with surveyors, they generally concluded that of the three Hunter did a better overall job of meeting the various guidelines and regulations.
> 
> Jeff


Well perhaps that is because people who own Catalina's actually sail them? Where Beneteaus are at the dock with people cooking gourmet meals in them and Hunter owners never come aboard???

Though I do hear Catalina's make a better mounting point for a grill!



On a more serious note, I think it depends more the condition of the individual boat than anything. The only real stand out is the B&R rig, some hate it, others love it. Other than the rig, they are all more dependent on the condition.

I have heard from a couple of surveyors that Hunters often survey better than most produciton boats.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

miatapaul said:


> Well perhaps that is because people who own Catalina's actually sail them? Where Beneteaus are at the dock with people cooking gourmet meals in them and Hunter owners never come aboard???
> 
> Though I do hear Catalina's make a better mounting point for a grill!
> 
> ...


Interesting "story" on how the different boat brand owners use their boats 

I doubt in the boat price the Op is looking at he is going to get a newer B&R rigged Hunter. Not that the rig should be an issue as there are 1000s around and those of us with don't have any problems with it.


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## mpickering (Jun 11, 2010)

I've owned both. One of my favorite boats is the Catalina 32 Mk II. I loved the layout. It was on my short list of "next boats" due to the headroom. However, my Hunter 340 beat it out in amenities and value for the money. And it had one of the most flawless surveys my surveyor had ever seen.

It's really a preference choice. Things I like about my Hunter are:

* Shoal draft (4'6") Fin bulb keel. The boat is very stable and docile under sail.
* Rack-and-pinion wheel steering. Very solid on the wheel.
* Full height bimini and dodger due to the stainless steel rear arch. I've been amazed the past few years at the number of bigger production boats including Catalinas in the mid-30s to mid-40s that have full size biminis and half-height dodgers! Doing gymnastics down and ducking up the companionway is not fun. My 6'1" frame and can go up and down comfortable under my dodger on my Hunter.
* In-mast furling. A wash since the Catalina offers it too. Some people hate it, I love it for the ability to reef to any point and get the sail in fast in an emergency. On my 340, it also has the added bonus of being an oversized mast to accommodate the furler. Basically a 34 foot boat with the mast section of a 40+ footer. 

I have no problems with the B&R rig save I have racing friends complain I can't adjust the mast tension. Response is always the same: It's a cruising boat.

While the C32 had better headroom in the aft cabin, the Hunter carries more beam aft and has a larger cockpit. 

Matt


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## tomandchris (Nov 11, 2009)

To the OP,

Does not matter if it is a Hunter, Catalina, or one of the Beneteau brands. In the years that you will be looking at based on your budget, buy the one that sings to you because of its condition. If a 15 to 20 year old boat is still in great shape, she has had a great owner. Thank them when you write the check, because there are a lot of ugly ducklings out there. 

Good luck, and be sure to let us know what you buy.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

Specific purposes, specific model, specific boat... how to they match? 
What we know of the poster's purposes and situation is live aboard, not crossing oceans, and 6'3" height, plus a proposed $50k budget that we may not be sure what covers. 
Is that anywhere near enough info to make a strong recommendation? Probably could use a bit more info in the "boat dating questionnaire".


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## JTSmith (Sep 7, 2014)

rgscpat said:


> Specific purposes, specific model, specific boat... how to they match?
> What we know of the poster's purposes and situation is live aboard, not crossing oceans, and 6'3" height, plus a proposed $50k budget that we may not be sure what covers.
> Is that anywhere near enough info to make a strong recommendation? Probably could use a bit more info in the "boat dating questionnaire".


Is there an actual "boat dating questionnaire" somewhere among these threads? If so, I'll fill it out. If not, here's a little more.

I'll be living alone on the boat being recently released from my wedding vows, so to speak. My kids (son, 22, graduate school - daughter, 18, freshman at Indiana University) and I are close and they will be frequent visitors thanks to very cheap flights from Indiana to Clearwater on Allegiant. They love being out on the water sailing and diving.

My $50K maximum is designed with a $20K slush in reserve for upgrades/repairs. Not bad. Could be more. But, to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, "You go to sea with the boat that you have, not the boat you might want or wish to have at a later time."

Workwise, I'm a freelance writer (advertising copy, mostly), so I can work anywhere that I have even occasional access to an Internet connection. I will be living on a dock for the first year (just seems like a good transitional phase) and will do so in the Tampa Bay area.

I'm 53 and in good health aside from a creaky right knee from too many years chasing a puck around the ice in my youth. Knee is managed with Advil on occasion and my bone doc says won't be a problem for at least ten years (I'll burn that bridge when I come to it).

Love to cook and, thanks to a lot of tent camping, have developed the ability to crank out some pretty amazing cuisine with very limited tools. Besides, as long as the wine is right, the food can't be wrong.

My dad taught me to sail when I was about seven. I've sailed, owned and raced Hobies and Flying Scots. I've been bareboat chartering for 20 years and have sailed everything from Hunter 34s to 40-plus Privilege cats on the Great Lakes, Buzzard's Bay/Nantucket Sound, Florida Keys, Bahamas, BVI and the Leewards.

I'm fairly handy on the DIY stuff and have no problem getting my hands dirty (though I do admit complete revulsion when it comes to dismantling and troubleshooting a marine head).

Oh, and I'm told that I am just dead sexy in my foulies and Tilley hat.

What else would you like to know?


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Why have you already limited yourself to Catalina or Hunter?

Why not consider a Cal, C&C, Ericson, Pearson, Sabre, Tartan or any of the other fine sailboats out there?

Have you considered the possibility that you might be better off looking for the best deal that suits your purposes in your geographic, instead of a particular make or model?


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

JTSmith said:


> My $50K maximum is designed with a $20K slush in reserve for upgrades/repairs.


Smart to have a hefty percentage of your budget put aside for upgrades. One example is the foam in the cushions will be shot on most boats this age. New interior cushions in the berths and salon aren't cheap but will make living aboard a lot more comfortable.



JTSmith said:


> Workwise, I'm a freelance writer (advertising copy, mostly), so I can work anywhere that I have even occasional access to an Internet connection.


Use Google to search sailnet, the search function here sucks. There are some good threads about dockside internet options. A lot of us work aboard occasionally, some full time.



JTSmith said:


> I'm 53 and in good health aside from a creaky right knee from too many years chasing a puck around the ice in my youth. Knee is managed with Advil on occasion and my bone doc says won't be a problem for at least ten years (I'll burn that bridge when I come to it).


LOL, I'm 50 with two bad knees from chasing pucks (among other things). We live aboard on weekends and there's a LOT of climbing up and down when you live aboard. Depending on your knee problem it may or may not be an issue. I can tell you that every boat we look at the first thing I do is count the number of steps from the salon to the cockpit, plus the step up onto the cockpit seat to the side deck. When you're living aboard it's amazing how many times a day you make that climb. It's something to think about...



JTSmith said:


> My dad taught me to sail when I was about seven. I've sailed, owned and raced Hobies and Flying Scots. I've been bareboat chartering for 20 years and have sailed everything from Hunter 34s to 40-plus Privilege cats on the Great Lakes, Buzzard's Bay/Nantucket Sound, Florida Keys, Bahamas, BVI and the Leewards.


So you know enough to trust your gut. There's a lot to be said for that boat that just "feels right" when you climb aboard.



JTSmith said:


> Oh, and I'm told that I am just dead sexy in my foulies and Tilley hat.


They lied :laugher


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Jeff_H said:


> The one thing that I would say is that at various times I have looked at Hunters, Catalinas and Beneteaus of the same era. Generally, the Beneteaus were in better condition, had nicer details, and generally were more sophisticated designs in terms of rig and hull forms. I say generally since Beneteau has also produced some turkeys. My impression jumping from boat to boat is that the Catalinas generally held up the worst of the three. In talking with surveyors, they generally concluded that of the three Hunter did a better overall job of meeting the various guidelines and regulations.
> 
> Jeff


Jeff, that's an interesting observation as we found the opposite to be true.

We were looking at mid-90's boats back in '08 and visited dealers on the Chesapeake that had 30-32 foot Hunters, Beneteaus and Catalinas in stock so we could compare them side to side.

Hands down the Catalinas had held up better when you looked at things like gel coat cracks, general wear & tear and condition of the interior.

One thing was Catalina used more real wood where the others used laminates (no true today). We saw some serious delamination of interior panels and some cases where wet panels had swelled or deformed in the others; and I was less than thrilled with the installation of systems on some boats (though I don't remember specifics at this point).

I've had both my Catalinas surveyed and both surveyors made positive comments about Catalina. At this point I've been through every system on our boat and haven't found anything that would prevent me from recommending the brand.

All that said, I stand by my earlier comment that when you're looking at boats from the 80's & 90's the condition of a particular boat trumps brand.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Over 1K views and almost 40 replies. This is why the "Just do your research and don't start new threads on already discussed topics!" thing is kind of silly.

Do whatever works.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

I think Jeff tends to be a little harsh in his estimation of Catalina generally, but he is dead-bang-on when it comes to Beneteaus. The Bruce Farr designed Beneteau First 40.7, and other First series Benes, are extraordinary sailboats.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

JTSmith said:


> Thanks for the input. And sorry for the whining. Trying to sell a house, deal with the IRS and tuition payments gone awry to two separate universities today and it's turning me into a big baby. Better now.
> 
> Thanks again!


I believe these are called "First World Problems". Funny that many of us want a sailboat to get some respite from such problems. I wonder how that works.
John


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

JimMcGee said:


> If I was looking at 34-36 footers in the $50K range as a liveaboard I'd be concerned with the following:
> 
> How comfortable is the boat both down below and in the cockpit. Are there "nooks" where you can settle in and get comfortable with a book or watching TV? Are the berths big enough to sleep comfortably? Is the head big enough to shower comfortably? Are their any head bangers?
> 
> ...


I think Jim has the right idea, select a boat based on how you plan to use it, sorta tossing aside the subject of builder as your floating condo isn't going to go around the horn.

I'd add a focus on features and gear as adding desired features to a purchase that does not have them can dramatically up the cost of ownership.

Like:
- water storage
- large battery bank
- inverter
- shore power
- fridge
- separate shower stall
- dodger and bimini (dramatically increase square footage)
- opening ports and hatches
- a/c and/or heat as applies
etc...

Personally I'd say go large enough to get a decent aft cabin, say the Hunter Legend 37 or better the SmackDaddy boat.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

sailingfool said:


> ...the SmackDaddy boat.


Now you're talkin'. I'm just glad I've been so instrumental in completely rebranding the inimitable, previously-named "Hunter Legend 40".

I'm sure the Luhrs family will be pleased.


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## Coyo7e (Feb 24, 2011)

We started off looking at Catalina, but found Hunter. I've spent a lot of time on my 1999 380 and also on a similar vintage and size Catalina and have no doubts that we made the right decision.

You'll be living on the thing. It will be your home! Stretch your budget a little and look for a 376. 376/380/386 belong in the hall of fame, much better design and layout than more recent Hunters and better made than earlier ones. IMHO!


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## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

JTSmith said:


> ...Though I did get flogged for not posting a booby pic.
> 
> Thanks again!


Gotta know the rules, man.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Here is a post from the origamiboats site, from an experienced Catalina owner. I don't think Hunters are any better.When I see the 24 inch high trip wires they call lifelines, I cant help thinking "If they skimped 10 or 12 inches of cheap tubing per stanchion on something as important as lifelines, what else did they skimp on?"

James Pronk posted
I also have a Catalina 27 that my family and I have spent most of the summer sailing on Georgian Bay. I know what it takes to rebuild someone else's old production boat. They are cheep for a reason, because most of them are junk. 
This Catalina is the 5th boat I have owned and the building flaws are unbelievable, I hope this boat was slapped together on a Friday and finished out on a Monday, and they didn't build all their boats like this one!

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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Brent Swain said:


> Here is a post from the origamiboats site, from an experienced Catalina owner. I don't think Hunters are any better.When I see the 24 inch high trip wires they call lifelines, I cant help thinking "If they skimped 10 or 12 inches of cheap tubing per stanchion on something as important as lifelines, what else did they skimp on?"
> 
> James Pronk posted
> I also have a Catalina 27 that my family and I have spent most of the summer sailing on Georgian Bay. I know what it takes to rebuild someone else's old production boat. They are cheep for a reason, because most of them are junk.
> ...


Great point Brent. A crappy C27 is not _nearly_ as strong as one of your steel yachts. No debate there.

Of course, if I recall correctly, this is the current state of Mr. Pronk's BS Yacht after 4 years of work. And this is an award winning metal worker, correct?



















Kind of hard to sail these pieces, eh?

Your boats must be _really_ hard to build and _very_ expensive for such an experienced guy to go through several plastic production boats, including a crappy C27, just to get a taste of sailing for his family while he builds one of your beasts over many, many years.

I'd never want to try that. Give me the crappy C27 any day of the week.


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## clip68 (Jun 26, 2014)

Brent, 

Your help with this topic is neither? They are all garbage. How is that help?

-Chris


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Simple .Look for a better boat. There are better boats out there, for cheap.
Anyone buying a production boat should know the pitfalls.
Stanchions should be easy to replace with longer ones. I am currently looking for longer stanchions for friends with this problem. Other such skimping by the builder is not always so easy to rectify.


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## Bill-Rangatira (Dec 17, 2006)

most stanchions are not for load bearing anyway so the lifelines only serve to remind you are at the edge . better solution is higher toerails


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## clip68 (Jun 26, 2014)

Brent Swain said:


> Simple .Look for a better boat. There are better boats out there, for cheap.
> Anyone buying a production boat should know the pitfalls.
> Stanchions should be easy to replace with longer ones. I am currently looking for longer stanchions for friends with this problem. Other such skimping by the builder is not always so easy to rectify.


The OP asked:


> Yeah, yeah, I know, most of you will shout "NEITHER!" But let's skip that part.


My point is if you are saying "Neither", you aren't helping. I would think if you have had personal experience good or bad with the boats in question, the input would be valuable. Suggesting the whole build quality of the two boats can be based of off life lines seems like hollow input.

-Chris


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

trashy steel boat guy trashs production boats and calls it helping :laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher


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## socal c25 (Nov 1, 2013)

I had a 85' Catalina 30 and my friend had a newer Hunter 31 and he seemed to always be hunting down water leaks and squeaking cabinetry, lots of little things that kept him from enjoying the boat. Every boat has some flaws and it also depends on how well the PO kept up on maintenance, I know that my Catalina was not well maintained by the PO so I thought that I would be working on it all the time but that wasn't the case. Your gonna have to go kick a few tires or should I say knock on a few decks to see what you like. Gluk with your search...


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## JoeLena (May 14, 2012)

Not wanting to fan the flames...and while I see some flaws in my 42 year old Catalina 27 it still seems to float and sail just fine. It had some fairly new engineering that I am sure we can look at today and think they should have done something differently or better, but there are a lot of these so-called crappy Catalina and Hunter production boats that have proved themselves over the decades. 

Hard for me to bash that kind of success.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Bottom line...I, personally, _personally_, _*personally*_...

...would _never_ live aboard anything under 50' on a mono...or at_ least_ on a 38' cat. Living on my 40'er? Fuggedaboutit. It's _just_ "doable". But not for me. I need room.


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## JTSmith (Sep 7, 2014)

Brent Swain said:


> Here is a post from the origamiboats site, from an experienced Catalina owner. I don't think Hunters are any better.When I see the 24 inch high trip wires they call lifelines, I cant help thinking "If they skimped 10 or 12 inches of cheap tubing per stanchion on something as important as lifelines, what else did they skimp on?"
> 
> James Pronk posted
> I also have a Catalina 27 that my family and I have spent most of the summer sailing on Georgian Bay. I know what it takes to rebuild someone else's old production boat. They are cheep for a reason, because most of them are junk.
> ...


I'm no Bob Perry, but if I was on my fifth boat, I'd probably recognize shoddy construction well before the survey. If James Pronk bought this as his fifth boat and it's a POS, he should probably get out of the game. Don't think I'd want to go sailing with him.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Probably a statement of the obvious. Every Hunter is not the same, nor every Catalina. You're really going to have to get detailed about models and years of manufacturer to parse your two favs out. Brand over brand itself doesn't do it, IMO.

That said, I've sailed a Cherubini era Hunter and found it to be a nice boat. They are often sought after.


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## RTB (Mar 5, 2009)

alctel said:


> I have a 1980 Hunter 36 (one of the Cherubini designed ones), that I got a good deal on and liveaboard on it.
> 
> I really like her, a lot, and she's built like a tank. Kind of slow though, but she's roomy for a boat of that vintage, and I like the lines on her - easy engine/propshaft access as well. And a backstay
> 
> I hear the hunter 37 cutters from the early 80s are great as well


We also have a Cherubini designed Hunter 36 (1982). We've been cruising full-time for two years now. Texas-Bahamas-Georgia-Bahamas-back to Texas. No problems. We've had plenty of Hunters anchored nearby in many places, so they ain't just "dock queens". Mostly 42'-45'. Out of 8 boats anchored with us in Rock Sound, Eleuthera, 5 of us were on Hunters. Far fewer Catalinas, actually. Hey, That's just what I'm seeing where we were cruising, and no reflection on Catalinas. Probably saw more IP's than any other make.

Ralph
Things to do in Rock Sound | sailing away with R & B


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## Woodfinatic (Jan 2, 2014)

JTSmith said:


> Yeah, yeah, I know, most of you will shout "NEITHER!" But let's skip that part. Here's my thing. After years of chartering, I'm buying and planning to live aboard. The parameters of that are these: $50k boat budget. 34-36 boat length. Beamy enough to be comfortable below. That said, I've narrowed the search down to Catalina and Hunter 34-36s. Which direction should I go?
> 
> Let the production boat bashing begin.


you should check out s4 boats


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## RTB (Mar 5, 2009)

smackdaddy said:


> Bottom line...I, personally, _personally_, _*personally*_...
> 
> ...would _never_ live aboard anything under 50' on a mono...or at_ least_ on a 38' cat. Living on my 40'er? Fuggedaboutit. It's _just_ "doable". But not for me. I need room.


What do you need all that ROOM for? A place to cook, a place to eat, a place to s&%t, and a place to sleep.....

I think a nice cockpit (our *patio*) is important. We spend mucho time there.

Ralph
New bimini | sailing away with R & B


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I haven't read all the replies. 

You asked a direct question, so I will give you a direct answer: I have worked on and sailed on both, and, assuming that all other things are equal, of the two, I would buy a Catalina.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

RTB said:


> We also have a Cherubini designed Hunter 36 (1982). We've been cruising full-time for two years now. Texas-Bahamas-Georgia-Bahamas-back to Texas. No problems. We've had plenty of Hunters anchored nearby in many places, so they ain't just "dock queens". Mostly 42'-45'. Out of 8 boats anchored with us in Rock Sound, Eleuthera, 5 of us were on Hunters. Far fewer Catalinas, actually. Hey, That's just what I'm seeing where we were cruising, and no reflection on Catalinas.
> 
> *Probably saw more IP's than any other make.*


And I can remember quite a few threads *trashing Island Packet*. Go figure. 

This is what I hate about SailNet:
- _Ask about a production boat_ -- some troll will say all production boats suck you have to buy a semi-custom.
- _Ask about a new boat_ -- it's a waste of money, only buy used.
- _Ask about an expensive semi-custom boat_ -- why spend so much money when there are so many great production boats?
- _Want a day sailor_ -- nope, you may as well buy bigger because you'll eventually upgrade anyway.
- _Buy a 40 footer_ -- why the hell would you want to do that? Bigger boats never leave the dock.

Fug it. I'll just figure out what works for us.

And you know what? When we're drinking sundowners in the cockpit we don't give a rat's hairy arse what anybody else thinks.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The phenomenon is not unique to sailnet, nor even the internet. From bars to book clubs across the land, there is always a contrarian that seems to enjoy so for the sake of it.


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## clip68 (Jun 26, 2014)

JimMcGee said:


> And you know what? When we're drinking sundowners in the cockpit we don't give a rat's hairy arse what anybody else thinks.


Exactly. Each boat, production or otherwise, small or large, new or old will have its share of issues to deal with. I'm afraid that there are snobs in every area of life. Don't let 'em get to you. Someone once told me that you don't pick a boat, it picks you. Sounds kind of silly, but I believe when you find the right boat and take into account all of its peccadilloes (maintenance needed, time needed, sailing characteristics, etc...) you will know when it is right. Just make sure to go into the decision with as many facts as you can gather and don't let emotions (yours or some other person's) cloud your judgement.

-Chris


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## weinie (Jun 21, 2008)

Catalina>Hunter


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Don0190 said:


> Interesting "story" on how the different boat brand owners use their boats
> 
> I doubt in the boat price the Op is looking at he is going to get a newer B&R rigged Hunter. Not that the rig should be an issue as there are 1000s around and those of us with don't have any problems with it.


Well I was joking, but I will say from my casual observation Catalina owners do seem to be the most passionate of any of the mass production boats out there. And I seem more of them out on the water around me than any other boat. (with the exception of Pearson Ensigns)

I think the $50,000 budget for a boat certainly gets him into the B&R rigged boats for sure. Certainly gets him into a hunter 37 Legend, but while it is B&R it does have a backstay. (A nice looking boat too) It gets him into a Hunter 340 as well(some on Yacht World are under 50 and several more likely to sell in that range). Now I never said B&R rigs were good or bad, just that they are a love it or hate it kind of thing. They actually are very good if you forgo the in mast roller fuller and get a main with battens and lots of roach, but most I have seen have in mast roller fulling, so that eliminates it's biggest advantage. Why loose your backstay if you are not going to take advantage of the space to put up more sail?


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## JTSmith (Sep 7, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> The phenomenon is not unique to sailnet, nor even the internet. From bars to book clubs across the land, there is always a contrarian that seems to enjoy so for the sake of it.


Yup. And somehow, they all end up being my clients.


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