# Advice on Beginner Boat for Chesapeake Bay?



## CaptKirk (Oct 20, 2009)

Hey all!

Ok, so a couple of months ago a friend took me out on the Chesapeake on his 27' Nonsuch - and I'm hooked. Obsessed. In trouble.

I'm sure I don't need to explain anymore.

My plan is to take some ASA classes next year and, finances and continued interest permitting, to purchase my first boat.

I've read through some of the prior recommendations and feel like I have a good overview but still wanted to ask for specific advice for my search. Sorry if this feels like a repeat but I felt like the previous responses didn't address 1. single-handed capability 2. space issues 3. cost (too expensive - people are going to start by spending $60,000 on their first boat!?!?)

Here are the criteria/factors:

Use
- Chesapeake Bay (live in Maryland and will rent slip space by Annapolis - don't want trailerable)
- Daysailing and weekend overnighters
- Potential longer trips as I figure out what the heck I'm doing
- Space for me and wife; take out 2-4 friends as well at times

Me
- 6'2" (and wife 5'10"): berth and cabin space important (but I'd rather duck than sleep crooked)
- complete novice but quick learner
- will mostly sail single handed

Boat
- considering 27-30 range
- wheel steering
- marine head
- again, single-hand capability

Price
- I'd love to get in as inexpensive as is wise. $5000-$10,000 would be a great range.

I've been trawling craigslist, yachtworld, etc most days for the last couple of months to get familiar with boats and prices and it seems my list might be doable.

I'd love to hear specific boat recommendations - and any other feedback you might have.

Thanks in advance!

Kirk


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## sailtimeci (Dec 10, 2006)

Hi Kirk,
Unless you feel you must own a boat to enjoy the sport, we at SailTime recommend you go for a season in a program like ours. You take ASA lessons on the boat you become a member of so that you learn to sail and sail something that you learned on which ramps up your confidence once the instructor leaves you to your own sailing. Less confusion in those early stages!

We find our membership breaks into two groups; 1) people looking to gain experience and confidence who plan to own their own boat some day after they understand what the sport/lifestyle is all about more fully, ie. purchase a boat with much more knowledge than a never-ever would - and - 2) people who come into the program feeling like they are (#1) but find out that the SailTime membership covers their wants and needs and fits their busy lives.

While you are out hunting its pretty simple to sit down and talk with the Annapolis, Baltimore or Havre de Grace base manager to learn more about our program for sailors. There's never any pressure to join but if you hurry you could probably see the boats offered before they are poulled for the season.

Good luck in your deliberations - any way you slice it, sailing is a fun thing to do with family and friends !

Chris in Cali


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## dongreerps (May 14, 2007)

Hi Kirk:
A twist on the Advise from Chris. It make lots more sense to sail on other people's money as a start. With all the sailors and racers in Annapolis you should be able to find opportunities to crew for others. If you could crew on a racing boat you will learn more in one seasonthat any other way. More important, if you do crew on a boat on a semi regular basis, you soon will become known around the waterfront, and will get to know other sailors, their boats, etc. All on OPM. Find out what the racing schedules are, and then just show up at the waterfront on race days a couple of hours before start time, saying "anybody need help?"
Don


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## badsanta (Oct 16, 2006)

5-10k is what it cost just for your docking fee.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Some points to ponder from someone who was in your shoes just a few years ago.

First, Annapolis is absolutely the most expensive place you could choose to keep your boat on the Chesapeake Bay. You can cut your ongoing costs by half or three quarters by looking further afield for a slip. There are places like Herrington Harbor where 1/2 the cost of Annapolis will buy you a slip in a truly beautiful marina facility and that is just one example. Annapolis is very cool if its in your budget though.

Second, crewing is a great option to get on the water and learning a ton about sailing, but "crewing" is about racing and your spouse may not care for that aspect of sailing which could end the larger dream, if she gets the idea that all sailing is like racing. That said, my wife and I did crew on another boat (after we'd bought our first boat). Since us guys sometimes don't think on the same wave length as our SO's I'll relate that as we were walking down the dock to meet the owner of the boat we'd volunteered to crew on my wife wondered aloud how she'd be accepted by the all male crew. Uh Oh! It had never dawned on me that the rest of the male crew might not like a female along or she might be uncomfortable as the only female onboard. As it turned out, the owner was a great guy and when my wife immediately coiled the lazy sheet after our first tack it became apparent the rest of the crew was glad to have us aboard, which is likely to be the case most times but you might run into a crew of curmudgeons. Crewing for us proved to be a great way to make some new long term friends and greatly accelerate our learning curve. We are on our second boat now (a Catalina 36) but still sail with this group as often as we can.

Sailtime or other sharing options could be a good way to get a taste of the experience of owning a boat without some of the downsides. The issues I see here are it may be hard to convince your spouse to buy a boat you can afford to own, after they've gotten used to fairly new "rental" boats, if you decide you want to become an owner. A time share boat will at least let you experience the joy of a sunset at anchor in a peaceful anchorage which is the absolute best way to sell sailing to your spouse IMHO. I like being able to leave all my "stuff" on the boat so I don't have to haul my own charts, foulies, etc, etc, etc to the boat every time.

Lastly, you are probably going to need to up your budget or downsize your boat. We started out with a 32' Oday and 0 sailing experience, so I don't think its unreasonable to start out on the size boat you are considering. We took ASA 101 the weekend after closing the deal on our Oday, then took another day of private instruction on that boat and haven't looked back since. We still make mistakes and occasionally have a "character building" experience, but we love sailing on the Chesapeake.

My advice would be to stick with one of the well known production boats from the early to mid eighty's for your first boat (Catalina, Oday, C&C, Cal, Sabre, Tartan, Beneteau, and Hunter are some brands that come immediately to mind) and buy the most pristine example you can find regardless of brand. The nicest boat always sells faster if you want to move up later.

Good Luck in your search,

Bill


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## kmartin16 (Apr 30, 2009)

Here you go. CATALINA 25 CLEAN GREAT BEGINNER BOAT SAIL SOUTH SAVE$$:eBay Motors (item 200397185965 end time Oct-28-09 17:36:03 PDT)


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## CaptKirk (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks for the input so far!

I'm planning on taking classes at the Maryland School starting next May. That will both provide an education and confirm interest. And be fun!

Badsanta:
As far as the Annapolis area goes, the friend I last sailed with pays $1200/year for his dock, which he rents privately. Maybe I won't have the same luck but at least it's not impossible.

midlifesailor:
I'll start getting on deck of 'for sale' boats next year. Looking online I've found a number of 27-30 boats in the $5000 range. Yes, they may not be worth it. It'll take more investigating for sure. One piece of advice I received was that, in the lower price ranges, to expect to double cost on refits and servicing. So a $5000 boat would be $10,000 when ready. At this point it seems a Sabre 28 might be the way to go.

Does anyone have additional advice/experience on sailing single-handed? I don't know if some boats are easier than others or what I should be considering. My wife will love being on the boat but is not as interested in operating the boat.


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## painkiller (Dec 20, 2006)

Yeah, there's a lot to consider for single-handing. Sit at the helm and try and reach the jib winches, the mainsheet, and traveler. If you're single-handing, you'll need to adjust all of those. If not, does the boat have a good auto-pilot? Modern boats often have the mainsheet and traveler on the coachroof to keep the cockpit unobstructed. That's not a good setup for single-handing, but it can be overcome somewhat with a good auto-pilot.

An auto-pilot or tiller-pilot is handy regardless, because you can use it to keep the boat pointed into the wind as you work on deck to raise/lower the main.

Does the boat have a jiffy-reefing system that leads back to the cockpit? That's really helpful for single-handing.

You should also consider the boat's sailing characteristics for single-handing, though this is very difficult. A boat that's tender or "spirited" will be a handful for a single-hander that isn't in the mood for a workout. A slower, steadier boat will be easier on the single-handed skipper (and the wife). Choose the characteristics that match your idea of fun.


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## lenl1540 (Oct 22, 2009)

Kirk,
I have tried this route and found that the work needed and money turns out to be considerable. Here is an idea, after you have a feel for sailing think about a monthly payment amount you can afford for the newest boat possible.You basicly pay for the use of the boat while retaining some equity. When its time to trade you will have a larger amount to put down on the next one.. Hope this helps.
Have fun sailing.
Len


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## painkiller (Dec 20, 2006)

But don't be discouraged, Kirk. You can get a boat in your price range. Don't worry too much about upgrades or repairs at first. You're not heading out for Bermuda just yet. Just sail the hell out of it and fix one thing at a time when you can.

My first boat was 1978 Cal 3-29. I paid $15k for it which was probably $10k too much. It was an old, stanky, musty, spider-infested, broken ol' beater, but I learned a lot on it. I'm sure glad I ran THAT boat into those pilings, mud, etc. than my current boat.


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## Leither (Sep 30, 2008)

Kirk

I guess that you have been through the basics of boat purchase and all the things you need to watch out for, so I won't go down that much trodden path, except to point out the eye-watering expense associated with new sails and replacement engines!

In addition to slip costs, there is always a significant maintenance factor with an old boat. Opinions vary on how much should be allowed for this, because it very much depends on how far beyond "essential work" you want to go, and how successful you have been in choosing a boat which is basically in good condition from the get go.

Sailing on the Chesapeake means that draft is important. I chose a boat (Morgan 30) with a centerboard and haven't regretted it. There are lots of great anchorages where the best mooring location is in 5 feet or less and you don't want to be trying that with 5 or 6 feet of keel hanging down below you!

Good cabin space with plenty of headroom means a high volume hull which may also have minuses in terms of handling. The Morgan is rather narrow and a tad cramped for a 30 footer, but very sea kindly, especially in the steep, sharp seas that characterize the Chesapeake when the wind pipes up.

If you are going to do overnights, you may well become attracted to longer term cruising and then galley arrangements become very important. 

Magazines like "Good Old Boat" regularly review boats in your price range and cover the issues mentioned here amongst others.

Other posts have commented on the issue of requirements for singlehanders. It is a matter of opinion, but tiller steering has some advantages here, especially in terms of simple autohelm arrangements. I would also look for the main controls (halyards, reefing lines and boom vang, for example) leading back to the cockpit.

Having said all of that, a boat (and especially an old boat) is very much a compromise. Be prepared to fall in love and find yourself overlooking all sorts of shortcomings.....

Good luck

Stuart


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Kirk,

Please keep in mind insuring your boat. I spent three months looking for a boat in the Chesapeake before finding a "above-average sail-away" 1994 Hunter 30T @ reduced price of $34k. Had the survey done before purchase. Insurers want to see the survey. I had 30 days to make corrections. Just finished up with the list of required corrections for an additional $800.00. Did all the work my oneself. Tools - $290, stainless steel screw/nut/washer set - $69, CO sensor -$109, Fire&Smoke Detector $15, Brass plugs for thru fittings $35, Reinforced Tubing for AC&Heat $25, Boat fender $52.....you get the point. A fixer upper might need hull paint, halyards, lines, standing rigging or sails. There is a used market but try finding the parts you need when you need them. I have done composites molding and repair but would wave off on anything relating to structural repairs or safety because of the amount of time involved.

I am only paying $310/yr for insurance for our boat. This is $100 less than my motorcycle. My slip fees are $1800/yr in Deltaville. Winterize boat for $150. Will need to pull the boat and apply abatement paint next spring $450 for self-serve. I will need to start replacing cracked plexiglas windows next. By the way if you aren't willing to do the work yourself then plan on shelling out the big clams for service charges.

Please don't wave off the cost of sailing safely or buy into the "Sailing Lifestyle" spin. If you are independently wealthy, this may be beneath your consideration. If you bust your butt to earn a paycheck, then look at buying into a sailing plan/school/club to get a real feel for sailing before diverting major funds to support your interests.


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## badsanta (Oct 16, 2006)

dakine, well stated. Thank you for your concise and well explained guide to ownership. I had no idea of the continued cost of ownership before I got mine. It will always be more than expected. 
I keep my boat in Reedville and drive through Fredericksburg all the time for Almans BBQ and Carl's cream cones!! See you on the water.


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## CaptKirk (Oct 20, 2009)

painkilller:
- Thanks for the encouragement. I think my goal is reachable...and the low price will save me when it is more expensive than I planned. Which seems like an inevitability. And the point about making my mistakes with a less expensive point is a good one.

Leither:
- I've read over info on buying a boat but guess it'll take actually getting on them next year to understand what it's about. I'm assuming that I'll most likely get a surveyor as well to make sure.
- Thanks for the info regarding singlehanding. I want to make sure that the boat I buy will fit this requirement. I'll give tiller steering some thought as well. 
- As for space, I just want to be able to sleep laying straight, if possible.  

dakine929:
- Always good to know about ongoing costs. The friend that took me sailing (and ignited my interest) also took me to lunch once he heard how obsessed I was to tell me about things like ongoing costs...said he needed to provide "full disclosure." 
- I do plan on doing as much as I can. Was in construction trades and do remodeling around the house (2 bathrooms and kitchen so far) so paying with elbow grease is something I'm accustomed to.
- One of the benefits of sailboat ownership, to me, is the ability to be on the water anytime I want. If I didn't have the local connections where I currently live I'd move to Annapolis in a heartbeat. I love the water and communities that are on the water. Plans/schools/clubs might not give me the ability to show up whenever I want.

One boat that tends to pop up in my searching is the Sabre 28. Saw a recent one around $9000. Yes, over my stated range but not necessarily out of my 'budget.' Thoughts?


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## Leither (Sep 30, 2008)

CaptKirk said:


> - I've read over info on buying a boat but guess it'll take actually getting on them next year to understand what it's about. I'm assuming that I'll most likely get a surveyor as well to make sure.


Cap'n

You are absolutely right, there is nothing like the actual experience of crawling all over boats to give you a feel for the complex decision making involved before buying. If you read SailingDog's excellent notes on boat buying, then you will actually be able to decide whether or not a particular boat is worth the cost of a survey. It really is the definitive guide, in my opinion.

Incidentally, I have no experience of the Sabre 28, but I have read good things about it and it sure is a looker.....

Stuart


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## pittsburghteacher (Nov 11, 2009)

captkirk,

you spend time with a guy named Kirby?


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## CaptKirk (Oct 20, 2009)

Can't say I do, pittsburghteach.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

*You're going to love it!*



CaptKirk said:


> Thanks for the input so far!
> 
> I'm planning on taking classes at the Maryland School starting next May. That will both provide an education and confirm interest. And be fun!
> 
> ...


* Start with a trailerable boat, IMHO. You will learn MUCH more about the feel of the wind. Keep it for a year and it will cost you almost nothing. Skip this step, and there will be things you will never really learn. Yes, you will get wet. Think like a kid and enjoy it! Something like an Albacore or Precision 15 (I am a cat sailor and shouldn't give advice on small monos).

* Yes, ther are many cheap slips, IF you don't need a yacht club. I pay $1200/year in Deale.

* How mechanical are you? If you want to do this on the cheap, you will need to be able to learn everything from engine tune-ups to fiberglass to electrical work. And you will have to enjoy learning and doing! An older boat will have hidden costs pop up like daisies for the 1st 2 years. Don't be surprised and put it in the budget.

* Read, read, and then read some more. First about dingies and the basics. Then about larger boats. Don't get size envy - if you want comfort stay in hotels when you cruise, it works well and is cheaper than a bigger boat. I have had a number of boats and I really can't say that the bigger ones were more fun than the smallest one. I only moved up when I felt I had exausted the possibilities of each. My blog has postings about a few cruises in a 1200 pound cat - I am sure there are many similar tales about.
Sail Delmarva: Search results for august 2008

Start small and have fun, before the cost of a bigger boat gets you down!


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## CaptKirk (Oct 20, 2009)

pdqaltair,

I appreciate your comments. My issues:

1. I have no space to store a trailerable boat.
2. I have no vehicle to pull a trailerable boat.

I think the cost of solving those two issues is greater than a larger boat and slip fees at this time.

As far as mechanics, I'm a fair hand at fixing things. Spent a good number of years in the construction trades, which provides some skills and the necessary fearlessness to get into a mess. At least I'll give it a shot before fouling it up enough that I have to call the guy I would've hired in the first place.

I've started my reading (and enjoy listening to a few podcasts I find interesting as well). If you have any further reading suggestions I'd love to hear them.

Thanks again!


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

This is the draft of an article that I wrote for another venue but it should be a good starting point even if it doesn't address your specific points. As to the Chesapeake, especially around Annapolis, it is pure bull hocky that storing boats around Annapolis is more expensive than anywhere else on the Bay. Yes, there are some notoriously expensive yards but there are so many slips in this area that there all kinds of deals around here as well. 

With regards to a boat for the Chesapeake, I suggest that a boat with good light air performance is a must. Otherwise there will be a bunch of great sailing days that you will just plain be frustrated trying to go sailing. Also this area really rewards a bit of performance since there are so many great anchorages that are within a 20 or so mile radius which are out of convenient weekending range on a slow-ish 30 foot or less boat. Because of that many, if not most 1960's and early 1970's era boats and most traditional boats are not very good for the Bay. Also I would try to stay below 5'-6" draft as any deeper than that begins to restrict where you can go.



_If you ask two sailors about almost anything you will get at least three opinions. There is no more controversial a question than what is a perfect first boat. To begin with all boats are compromises. They are compromises between optimum sailing ability and the need for accommodations or shoal draft. If a boat gets wider it gets more stable up to a point but then it has less reserve stability to right itself if it goes over. If a boat is too wide and blunt, it has a lot of drag but lots of room down below. If a boat is too narrow it has less drag but if too narrow won't have much stability or room down below. Too much weight and the boat is slow and hard to handle, too little weight the boat is fast, fun, and easy to handle up to a point but at some point takes greater skills and athletic ability. _
<O</O
_If you ask some sailors, they will recommend a traditional design because they are a bit harder to get into trouble with. I somewhat disagree. I really think that the boat you buy should be responsive enough that you can learn proper sail trim and boat handling. I have taught a lot of people to sail and I firmly believe that to really learn to sail the boat should be light and responsive enough that you can experiment with sail trim and sailing angles and see and feel the results. I recommend a boat with a reasonably easily driven hull and reasonably modern rig and underbody. I find that fractional rigged sloops are really the easiest to learn proper sail trim on. _
<O</O
_Much of this depends on your own priorities. There are a lot people out on the water who really only understand the rudimentary aspects of sail trim and boat handling. That works for them and I am not judging them. If you really want to learn the fine points of sailing then I would stick to sloop 30 feet or less in length and of light to moderate displacement and a fin keel and spade rudder. Beginners sometimes think they prefer wheel steering, but on the size boats you are talking about a tiller is far and away better both to learn on and to sail with. In fact the last thing that a beginner sailor should have is wheel steering if they actually want to learn to sail. _
<O</O
_Under no circumstances should a first boat be a new boat. When you buy a new boat, there are a lot of decisions to be made and a huge amount of work sorting the boat out so that it is easy to sail and so that all of the little things are available and convenient. If you have never owned a boat and have not spent years sailing on lost of different boats (or at least a boat of your own) you do not have the knowledge base to know what it is that you want to do or what your options are. With a used boat, someone else has spent the time and money setting the boat up. You can try it out and if it does not work you can walk away and find a boat that does or knock down the price to correct the problem. _
<O</O
_People rarely hold onto first boats terribly long. As they learn their tastes, needs and goals change. Perhaps they want a more serious cruising boat or perhaps they want a to try racing. First boats tend to get beat up a bit. There is enormous depreciation on new boats, (masked by comparing base prices to the actual cost of purchase plus equipping one) and so with the probability that a first boat will be sold more quickly than a second it makes no sense to buy new. _
<O</O
_The key in picking any boat is to figure out where you are going to sail, what your abilities are and what your real needs are. Different sailing venues favor different types of boats. If you sail in an area with light winds, for example, you want a lighter weight boat with a generous sail plan or you will be very frustrated. As a beginner sailor you want a boat that is responsive enough to give you clues about sail trim and boat handling. You also have to ask yourself how are you going to use a boat. Will you only daysail, or do you think you want to spend nights aboard cruising. Do you want to trailer a boat to keep costs down or do you want to keep the boat in the water because it is way more convenient and is less abusive to the boat? _
<O</O
_Here is a list of good first boats: (These should all be well under 20K, most have inboards which I think is preferable for cruising.)_
<O</O
_-Albin Ballad (30 feet (1973-1978) $12-20K) _
_These are reasonably fast and very well built and finished boats. They are not especially roomy but are good boats for short handing. They are beautiful looking boats. Most have a Volvo 10 hp diesel._
<O</O
_Albin Cumulus (28 feet-(early 1980's) $15-18K) _
_These fractional rigged sloops would be a ideal first boat. They are reasonably fast (although 60 sec's a mile slower than my former Laser 28) and easy to handle. They are nicely finished and typically have diesels. The interiors on these boats are not exactly plush but is reasonable for the kind of stuff we do on the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com







Chesapeake</st1:City></ST1 _
<O</O
_Beneteau First 30 or 30E (30 feet (early 1980's) $18-22K) _
_Fairly modern design that should sail reasonably well. Not the most solid boats but fine for around here. They had diesels and pretty good hardware. The 30E might be a fractional rig, I don't recall. _
<O</O
_-C&C 26_
<O</O
_-C&C Corvette (31 feet (1967- 1970) $15-22K) and -C&C Redwing (30 footer ( 1965-1970) $12K- 20K)_
_Attractive and reasonably venerable designs; they are not especially fast but OK for the era. The Corvettes are moderately long keel/ centerboard boats and so are great for poking around the shallower areas of the Bay. The Redwings are fin keel/spade rudder boats. They are really not competitive racers any longer. _
<O</O
_Cal 2-30 and Cal 2-29's (just under 30 feet (mid 1960-early 1970's) $10-18K)_
_These are reasonably well built racer cruisers that have reasonable accommodations and pretty fair sailing ability. Like the Cal 25, the design is a dated and if the gear has not been updated will be less convenient than a more modern design. Still they sail quite well and can be a good all around boat._
<O</O
_Catalina 27's: (1970's to 1980's) (Under $12K)_
_While not especially well built boats, they are reasonable first boats offering a nice interior and reasonable sailing ability. (I am not a fan of the Catalina 30's. While ostensibly an enlargement of the 27, they really do not sail as well as the 27 and are particularly poor in a chop.) _
<O</O
_Dehler 31 (31 feet (Mid to late 1980's) under $20K to mid-20K range) _
_These are really neat little boats. They are not as fast as my Laser 28 say but are quite fast and look easier to sail and single-hand. They are fractional rigged and have a very nice interior plan. They would one of my favorites on this list for a first boat that can be both cruised and raced._
<O</O
_Dufour 2800 (28 feet (mid 1980's) mid $20K)_
_These are OK boats with a big following. They are not my favorite but they would not be a bad boat if the price were right._
<O</O
_Irwin Competition 30 (30 feet(mid 1970's) $12-16K) _
_These were well rounded little boats that sailed well and had reasonably nice interiors. There was one that dominated its class in PHRF for years. Irwin's were not the most solidly built boats and so you are looking for a well maintained example in reasonably good shape. _
<O</O
_MG27 (27 foot (Mid 1980's) under $20K)_
_Nice little fractional rigged English boats. They seem to be well mannered and have an interior layout similar to my Laser 28. They have a diesel aux. But tiny tanks that will need to get upgraded. _
<O</O
_Oday 28 & 30 (28 feet and 30 feet(late 1970's and early 1980's) $12-20K)_
_These were not the best built boats or the fastest boats in their day but are common and sail reasonably well._
<O></O>
_1970's vintage Tartan 30's, (30 feet( 1970's) under $20K)_
_These are my favorite masthead sloops of that era. They are good all around boats. Most still atomic 4's but you can find them with diesels. _
<O</O
_Tartan 26's_
<O</O
_Late 70's/ early 80's Hunter 30's, (30feet (15-20K)_
_These are under appreciated boats. We have had two in my family and again it is a matter of finding one that has been upgraded and is in good clean shape. My Dad raced his in PHRF and went for a couple years without finishing lower than a first or second. They are roomy and surprisingly fast. _
<O</O
_70's vintage Pearson 30's (Not Flyers)_
_These are very venerable racer/cruisers on the <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1lace w:st="on">Chesapeake</ST1lace></st1:City>. They have an active one-design class and are also good boats for cruising the Bay. Of course they come in all kinds of condition from really well maintained and up graded with good racing hardware and a diesel engine to stripped and trashed. You can buy them from under $10K (but you would not want any in that price range) to something approaching $20K. You should find good boats in the high teens._
<O</O
_Ranger 29 (29 (early 1970's) 10-18K) _
_These are good sailing and nice cruising boats. They should be adequate for club racing and are certainly good boats. They were not the best built boats and so again you should be looking for a clean and updated version. Still they offer a lot of bang for the buck. _
<O</O
_Wylie 28 and Wylie 30 (28 and 30 respectively(late 1970's to early 1980's) 10-15K)_
_These are neat little boats that sail well and are really pretty interesting. The few that I have seen have good hardware and have had simple but workable interiors. They came in fractional and masthead rig versions. There was a masthead version that did quite well on the Bay. There was a one design version called a Hawkfarm but they never caught on the <st1:City w:st="on">Chesapeake</st1:City> but are still raced in <st1laceName w:st="on">S.F.</st1laceName> <st1laceType w:st="on">Bay</st1laceType></ST1._
<O</O

_If you want something that is more of a race boat than cruiser, you might look at :_
_J-30's_
_Kirby 30's_
_Laser 28's_
_Shockwave (also called Schockwave 30, or Wavelength 30 ) _
<O</O
<O</O
_If you want some thing more traditional _
_Alberg 30's_
_C&C Redwings and Corvettes_
_Pearson Coasters, and Wanderer's _
<O</O
<O</O
_You will find that these boats that are more traditional boats have less room and will have older equipment but they should be less money and may be better sailing boats than some of the newer boats on the market. _
<O</O
Jeff


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## Lookin4Freedom (Dec 2, 2008)

CaptKirk - I thought the same thing about trailering.. But my hobie 18 is EASILY trailerable by my little sedan. And the guys I sailed with while learning towed highlanders, flying scots, and especially the thistle in small cars. I think the thistle with trailer is only 850-900 lbs! I understand that means limited overnight possibilities as everything I mentioned is a daysailor, but it definitely saves costs. Plus, marinas will often give you a huge break on costs if you trailor sail out of the marina.. Meaning, you only have to haul it as far as the launch from the yard. You could leave it with the mast up, so it wouldn't be bad. I understand it's annoying to not hop in and go, but it's certainly worth a thought if you are trying to stay cheap.


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## mgiguere (May 22, 2004)

A friend of mine had a Sabre 28 and was on our yacht club cruise where most of the boats were larger (and a little faster), but I was thoroughly impressed with the handling characteristics of this boat and the space below considering the size. I believe it would be a great bay boat and Sabre has an excellent reputation for building solid boats...which many of the Chesapeake boats are not.

Moe
Crishelle
Apache 37
Galesville


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