# For a family of 4 - Islander 28 vs Catalina 30



## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I'm back. I've been looking at a lot of boats for my family and me - wife, 2 kids (7 and 4) - which we'll probably be sailing in the Barnegat Bay area of NJ. We really liked a Hunter 28.5 that we saw - the low coach roof meant good visibility for our kids from the cockpit (something our C25 lacked), and we liked the cockpit and cabin of an Allmand 31 that we tried to buy, but couldn't come to price agreement with the owner. When that fell through (we missed out on the Hunter 28.5), I started looking again, and I've found three that look promising. One is a 1982 Hunter 33 (Cherubini-era) that was recently redone inside and out. Another is a 1981 Catalina 30 that has supposedly been redone as well. The third one on my list is a 1977 Islander 28. I haven't been aboard any of them yet - the Hunter and Islander are both about 2 hours from me (in different directions) and the Catalina is almost 5 hours from me. I've found another C30 that is closer, and even less money, but I'm not sure of its over-all condition (e.g., how long ago rigging and other "stuff" was updated). From the pictures I've seen, the Islander appears to be in the best shape - she's beautiful. She has a self-tending jib, which is kind of cool, though I'd prefer a furler since I will do a lot of "effectively" single-handing (2 young kids means my wife is busy most of the time). The cabin and cockpit look to have been very well maintained. She also has a nice draft (4'2"), significantly less than the Catalina 30 (5'3"), and a good bit shallower than the Hunter, too. The H33 looks nice, but the cabin lay-out is the traditional "shotgun" style (as is the Islander's), which really isn't as appealing as the C30's cabin. The C30 looks like it will need the most "TLC", with the H33 falling somewhere in the middle. The H33 has a Yanmar, the Islander and the Catalina both have Atomic 4's.

I'm thinking that the H33 might be a bit "much" for us at this point. Sure, I'd love a bigger boat, but from what I've seen in the pictures, the C30 seems to have a better cockpit and cabin layout - it doesn't seem like I gain much by having the extra 3 feet. So, I'm inclined to rule it out (though I'd appreciate any comments before I make that official), which leaves me with the C30 and the Islander 28. So, what's your take? A 1977 Islander 28 which appears to be in great shape, or a 1981 Catalina 30 that might need a fair bit of "TLC"? It looks like I can get either one for about the same price. Is the 5'3" draft on the C30 too much for Barnegat Bay?


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I haven't been on an Islander 28 either, but I almost bought an Islander 30 and really liked what I saw. My slip neighbor also has an Islander 30 and sails it on 2-3 day trips pretty much every weekend and loves it.

The Islander 28 was designed by one of the great designers (Robert Perry) and is said to be one of his 3 favorite projects. Initial build quality on the Islanders is also a little higher than Catalina. So that's the one that I'd personally start with.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I think the Islander is the prettier of the two, but it's hard to beat the C30 for layout. When you check out a C30 be sure to see if the low clearance over part of the aft berth is going to be an issue.

Both with an A4...either of them FWC? That would be a big plus.

The Cher. H33 is probably a very nice boat for what you want. The diesel is a re-sale plus down the road. Even if it "feels too much" to start that will only last awhile. If your family takes to it with heart it may avoid the inevitable "2-footitis" for some time.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I owned an Island 28 on Barnegat Bay some 28 years ago. Is this where the boat is located? The 6 years I owned her she was the only I28 on Barnegat Bay. Nice boat...quick... nice cane cabinet fronts. perfect for a small family. I had her name Island Majic, but the people who bought her from me may have changed the name. I believe she was a 1977. She had an Atomic 4if you keeping her on Barnegat Bay sailing this boat is great as the draft kept me from bumping where other boats hit sand. I took her to Block Island a number of times. When I sold her she was kept in Dillons Creek marina

Diesel is safer than gas on the other hand. You may need the room and the extra feet in the Hunter amy be worth it. Go for the best quality boat and the one youd be proud to own. All would fit your needs

Is this the boat your looking at my old one?

Dave


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Given a choice between a Cat 30 and a Cherubini Hunter 33 , I'd go with the Hunter. All of the reasons why are arguable but i just like the Hunter better as a cruiser and dock-condo
combo. The Catalina has better accomodations, but the Hunert is better equipped and if you're comparing dollar for dollar, the bigger. better boat with more stuff is usually the winner.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Dave,
It may well be your boat. I believe the one i'm considering is now called Onyx. She's across the river from Dillons Creek, so it could be the same boat.


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## dacap06 (Feb 2, 2008)

Jimgo,

I think this is another one of those "well, it depends" questions. Only you can answer based on personal tastes and your priorities. 

I have sailed both the Islander 28 and an '80s Catalina 30, and IMO the Islander is the better behaved sailor, although I don't remember it being particularly fast. I think there's more room and storage in the Catalina, although I could be wrong. I don't remember the I28 having an abundance of storage, but it wasn't something I'd look for on a day sail. And of course, this is anecdotal evidence, not objective and accurate statistics. YMMV.

If you want a somewhat more objective guide to speed, you might be interested in PHRF ratings. The '75 C30 w/o spinnaker (not tall rig) has a PHRF rating of 210, while the I28 w/o spinnaker has a PHRF rating of 224.

Tom


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

The C30 IS a bigger boat overall. You would have to look at an I30 to have the same IMHO boat size comparison. The I28 is the same size as my boat, or a Cat 28mkII. There is less room inside. 

With that said, I believe an Islander will be a better boat overall than Catalina, we are not talking major amounts mind you. Chevy vs buick difference. From looking at local boat, Islander seem to be better designed on deck etc from a sailing stand point. When racing them, always tough to beat, where as Catalina's are pretty simple.

Marty


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback. If I could find an Islander 30 in my price range that was close(ish) to me, I'd be glad to take a look!

The H33 has me a bit concerned because I single-hand a lot. I was out on a C38 in heavy winds about a year ago, and I'm not sure I'd be able to handle her alone. Granted, the H33 is a much smaller boat, but I think I'd rather wait until I'm ready and have more experience than have something that might intimidate me (and thus keep us from using it as much as I'd like). As between the C30 and the I28, it could be an interesting choice.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

There are a few done here on the Chessie and some on the Lakes, but they were California boats. When we were in San Diego sailing last year and Long Beach we saw a lot of hem. Especially the 36 and the pilot house Bahama.

Dave


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

I would lean towards the Islander just for the draft. Anything much over 4 feet starts to limit you sailing choices where you are.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I had really hoped to find a shoal draft version of the C30, but no luck so far.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

jimgo said:


> I had really hoped to find a shoal draft version of the C30, but no luck so far.


Well, there's always a chainsaw... 

KIDDING!!!


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Still waiting to see the Islander 28, and the C30 owner has gone dark. Very frustrating!


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Sorry Jim, frustration is never fun. On the other hand C30's are very very common, so there will be more of them to look at soon.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

That's what I'm afraid of, Alex - with Hurricane Sandy, we're starting to see some of the damaged boats coming on the market. It's the ones where the damage isn't as obvious, or even known by the owner, that scares me. I've been trying to focus on boats that are outside of Sandy's reach, or were for sale before the storm hit, which tells me that the sellers aren't "suddenly motivated" to sell.

On the plus side, it has allowed me to find a few more boats. I now have a lead on an Islander 30 and an S2 9.2. The Islander 30 is a bit farther from home than I'd like, and only has single lifelines (I'd prefer double) but otherwise looks to meet most of my requirements (the photos from the seller seem to show her in decent shape; now I just need to find time to get to see her). I haven't seen pictures of the S2 yet - hopefully they'll be coming later this week, and I may be able to see her in person on Saturday or Sunday.

I know y'all can't wait for my next update...


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Jimgo

If any of the boats you are looking at are in the Chessie area ( Annapolis to Baltimore. I could do a prelim look see for you.

Dave


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks, Dave, I appreciate that! 

We were in Galena and Rock Hall on Saturday - Galena was really pretty. Too far away, but nice and tranquil, at least this time of year. I may be near Havte de Grace this coming weekend to check out a boat, too. After that, I may take you up on your offer!


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## dacap06 (Feb 2, 2008)

jimgo said:


> Thanks for the feedback. If I could find an Islander 30 in my price range that was close(ish) to me, I'd be glad to take a look!


Jimgo,

I thought of you when I saw this 1975 I30 for sale over in Rock Hall, MD. I'd wager you could get it for $6K - $8K. I am guessing it would probably be a 3 - 4 day transit to Barnegat Bay through the ICS from Rock Hall.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks! As a matter of fact, I tried to visit her on Saturday, but she's out for repairs and couldn't be seen. I have a strong preference for a wheel, and that particular Islander is tiller-steered. I could look at outfitting her with a transom-mounted wheel, but need to factor that into the cost compared to other boats that are available.

In my mind, at least, the trip up the Chesse and through the canal would be a lot of fun. Tiring, but fun, so I've been sure to include MD and parts of VA in my searches.

Thanks for pointing her out, by the way! If you see anything else, the suggestions are welcome!


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

jimgo said:


> Thanks! As a matter of fact, I tried to visit her on Saturday, but she's out for repairs and couldn't be seen. I have a strong preference for a wheel, and that particular Islander is tiller-steered. I could look at outfitting her with a transom-mounted wheel, but need to factor that into the cost compared to other boats that are available.
> 
> In my mind, at least, the trip up the Chesse and through the canal would be a lot of fun. Tiring, but fun, so I've been sure to include MD and parts of VA in my searches.
> 
> Thanks for pointing her out, by the way! If you see anything else, the suggestions are welcome!


We goi to the LI Sound and New England every summer from the Chesapeake.
The stop on the thrid night is Barnegat Lighthouse. One day to Reedy Island on the Delaware, One day to Cape May, One day to Banegat.

Easy trip mostly motoring ( Delaware with the tide only)


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

Jim,

I currently sail an I-28. I did not choose it, it just landed in my lap. I was in the market for a small coastal cruiser to introduce my wife to sailing and the coast of Maine. I have been sailing here on various boats since the 80's. Mine has a 5' draft.

This boat is the most well balanced boat I have had the pleasure to sail. My novice wife was comfortable at the helm on our first outing (10 knots +_ with spray on deck when beating with a 130 jib). She is the helms woman and I am the trimmer now. It is responsive and predictable. It is safe because of that. Jibing is a non event. I sail it solo with hank on head sails. I added a jib down haul for my comfort and convenience. Bob Perry got it right. It is well made of quality materials, too. It is not as roomy as some of the other boats in its class. The hull is designed to sail first, not sleep a crowd in spacious comfort but there is plenty of room for our coastal outings. Its flare continues to the rail. Looks and acts like a sailboat not a wind powered camper.

I don't have experience with the other boats you are considering but I do like the I-28.

Down


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Down, thanks for the feedback. Its comments like yours that have helped keep the I28 on my list despite having other boats that would better combat 2-foot-itis. I am anxious to see the I28. She seems to be the most turn-key of the boats so far, which would be nice after spending almost every weekend from January through May of 2012 rehabbing our C25. If the cockpit and cabin are comfortable enough and the engine seems reliable enough, it just might seduce me away from some of the 30's at which I am looking.

Chef, you'll have to let me know when you're doing your migration, perhaps we can meet in Cape May or near Barnegat for dinner. With all the advice, I think I owe you at least that much!


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Ha.....I like that term migration

No charge for the commradiery. Its important to give back.

Will be sometime soon after August 15 when we start our journey northward. We genrally take a slip at Utsches in Cape May for one night going up and 2 nights when we return as my wife and I love Cape May ( I lived in Ocean City for 18 years when I worked in the cainos in AC). Barnegat is an anchored night but we could come in and pick you up on the dinghy from LBI near a street end or dock near the lighthouse.

BTW there are a number of SN sailors on Barnegat Bay on here. JimMcGee, Sabreman, Chip ( fogot his monniker ehere) it may be Grt and others who are nice people. They may be able to help you also if thats where you intend on sailing. There are others.

Where are you located in Philly burbs, I grew up in Bryn Mawr.



jimgo said:


> Down, thanks for the feedback. Its comments like yours that have helped keep the I28 on my list despite having other boats that would better combat 2-foot-itis. I am anxious to see the I28. She seems to be the most turn-key of the boats so far, which would be nice after spending almost every weekend from January through May of 2012 rehabbing our C25. If the cockpit and cabin are comfortable enough and the engine seems reliable enough, it just might seduce me away from some of the 30's at which I am looking.
> 
> Chef, you'll have to let me know when you're doing your migration, perhaps we can meet in Cape May or near Barnegat for dinner. With all the advice, I think I owe you at least that much!


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

Jim,

Good luck with your search. What a nice surprise as I got to know this boat. The PO "gave" it to me because it needed work and he had no means to deal with it. I replaced the seized A-4 and added some electronics including radar. The I-28 was not a boat I was familiar with but it would "do" for a couple of years as I introduced the Admiral to sailing. That was 5 years ago and we will keep it. It is capable in heavy weather, too. We take it out to play in the waves from time to time. Hull speed is easily achieved and it surfs comfortably. I have not upgraded the sails yet. I think the original owner raced it out of Boston as "Hurrah". New sails are next. that will be interesting!

Down


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Down, who knows, maybe we'll be able to discuss the finer points of the I28 (and cause Dave to reminisce about his old boat)!

Dave, I'm over near Lansdale. And, I have a dinghy with an engine, just no sailboat to carry it! Well, I do have a 15' Albacore, but the 9' dinghy would look kind of silly on the foredeck. I tell everyone that I have a small powerboat and a small sailboat - what do they know? []


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## Familycruisers (Dec 15, 2011)

You were in Galena? Should have said hi! Bohemia River Marina had a bunch of boats for a song, or $250 plus others, and any and all between. Stop at every Marina, but if you make it to Georgetown again, say hi!


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## Familycruisers (Dec 15, 2011)

Sorry , meant to add to the original question. I'm a dad with two small kids as well (4 +1) Making sure its singlehandable, ie roller fuel, self tailing, autopilot. Adding those things could easily cost more than the entire vessel in this market.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I was actually IN Georgetown, at the Georgetown Yacht Basin (or whatever the proper name is for that place). Very pretty! I met a nice guy working on a Hunter 31 while we were there. If I find myself back there, I'll have to look for your Centaur. I've seen a few from afar, but have always wanted to see one up close!


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

We had a Catalina 25 for a single season, but started to get a feel for what I want in a boat. Roller furling is high on my list, though a wheel is actually tops for me. I hit my youngest (age 4) in the head a few times with the tiller because he didn't move when I told him to, and I NEEDED to move the tiller. Needless to say, that doesn't make for a fun time for anyone. Plus, I think a wheel will open up the cockpit when underway. We didn't spend a lot of time entertaining at the dock (short attention span for the kids), so being comfortable underway is my big priority. The wheel, and good visibility forward for people under 4' will go a long way toward making the entire experience more enjoyable for everyone.

An autopilot would be great, but even the ability to lock the wheel and walk away would be good. I had a tiller tamer, but could never get it to work properly; the rope always seemed to slip at just the wrong moment. 

Roller furling is a big plus - our old boat had it, and I still have the furler, though I'm not sure it's really meant for a 28-30' boat (it was called a "Roller-Ful" or something like that, and just used a wire luff). One of the boats has a self-tending jib. I'm not sure how I feel about that; I may be swapping it for a furler at some point! Self tailing winches would be nice, too, but I haven't had 'em, so I "don't know what I'm missing".

Thanks for the suggestions!


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## Familycruisers (Dec 15, 2011)

Yeah ,I just lash the tiller now, until I can get the st1000 installed. I never knew what I was missing with roller and self tailing, the Centaur just happen to come that way. Man, does it just make things easier! Selftailing is just wow(from never having it before)


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

FINALLY had a chance to see the Islander 28 today, and WOW, what a disappointment. It was actually kind of disheartening. 

She was bottoming out in the bay where she was docked, which made getting aboard interesting because she had settled about 2 1/2 feet from the dock, and my wife isn't particularly tall. Once we were aboard, the cockpit wasn't bad, though the exterior woodwork all seemed in worse shape than I had expected. No soft spots were noted on the deck, but the sail covers both looked like they'd seen better days (I chalked that up to Sandy). So far, things weren't looking too bad. Then we went inside.

One of the first things I did was to pull back the rug and check the bilge, and it was full of water. Not only was it full to capacity, but both layers of floorboards over it were VERY damp. Upon closer inspection, there was clear evidence of at least 6-8" of water having been in the bottom of the cabin (there's a line that goes all around the woodwork at the bottom of the settees, the nav station, and the bulkheads), and comparing the pictures that are in the listing to those I took today, it seems clear that the water is recent (my guess is the hurricane). It doesn't seem to have gone as high as the engine, but the folding table is ruined and it's hard to tell what damage happened to the bottom of the bulkheads. The port side chainplates also show a lot of water entry issues, and the washers backing the chainplate bolts are sunken in pretty far into the bulkheads. Fortunately, though, the bulkhead still seem solid. However, it's clear by comparing the pictures that the bulkhead had previously gotten wet around the port forward chainplate, but that it has gotten a lot worse. The port side windows/ports also seem to have problems, and the nav station is both warped and there's a huge crack on the forward side. 

It's such a shame, because she was really a beautiful boat, and I really was very excited to go see her. My theory is that there's a hole somewhere and, when she sits on the bottom (as was the case today), the water drains out to just at the bilge level. But when the tide is in, or when there's a storm that gives more water under the boat, then she takes on more water until she's sitting on the bottom again, so she's just filling and emptying with water as the tide changes (the tidal change in that area of the bay is only about 8-10"). Unfortunately, there's no way to prove this other than to move her to a marina (she's at a private dock) and have her hauled, if she even makes it as far as the marina without sinking. I don't think she's worth that kind of investment, at least not at what the seller has thusfar been willing to take. If I can get him to come down REALLY low, then maybe. But, otherwise, I think I'm off to find another prospect.

Anyone know of an S2 9.2C or another center cockpit boat that's in decent shape and available for under $10K? My wife was aboard a 9.2C recently and she loved it. Otherwise, I think we're probably looking at Catalina 30's or Hunter 30's/33's from the Cherubini era, or MAYBE an S2 9.2A if I can find one in decent shape. I'm open to other suggestions, too!


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Damn...I hope it isnt my old boat

Was it a wheel/ tiller? Didnt the table come out on a rod (hidden from view tucked into the bulkhead?

Sorry you got your hopes up, but there will be other boats. Look also at the older Tartans, Sabres and C&Cs if you like the designs of the Islanders.

Dave


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

It was a wheel, but it looked like a retro-fit. The wheel was transom-mounted, which really opened up the cockpit. But you could access the rudder shaft for an emergency tiller. Plus, the box surrounding the wheel mechanism was great, and if you sat on it you had great visibility forward. I thought my kids would enjoy sitting there.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

If you like the layout of the Islander then you should also be looking at Pearson 28-1, Yankee 28 and 30 (not sure how common those are on the east coast), C&C 29 (the 30 is missing a quarter berth), Cal 29 and 31, and Islander 30s. There are more too, it is a pretty classic setup.

Sorry to hear about the condition of that one, online ads can be very misleading. I'm on the west coast and can't imagine how Sandy has changed the boat shopping market. I'm sure that many boats are being advertised with outdated photos now. I will say that many boats that we looked at were disappointing when we saw them in person.

Good luck with the search. The 9.2C is an interesting boat that gets tons of interior space in a 30' boat. You are giving up all outside storage though (it has no lazarettes), engine access isn't great, and it has a lot of windage from being tall. I've not seen one listed here for under $20k, but I think S2 boats are more common in the east than the west. I liked the concept a lot on paper, but looked at a couple in person and decided they weren't for me. I can see how it could be a good design for a family though. O'Day also made a 32' center cockpit boat that might be worth checking out if you decide that you like that design.
O'DAY 32 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks Alex! There's an O'Day 32 that keeps coming up in my searches. It's up near Rhode Island. It turns out the guy sold it almost a year ago, but he can't get all the ads taken down!


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Had a chance to visit an S2 9.2C, Pearson 30, Cape Dory 28, and a Lancer 29 today. The 9.2C was disappointing for me. She's a real "diamond in the rough" - needs all of the liner removed, woodwork completely re-done, and new cushions throughout. Except for the liner, it's all stuff that I've done before, but the scope of the project isn't something that I could knock out in the next month or two (knowing how slowly I handle some jobs). She'll be a great boat for someone, just not for me. And that's what's disappointing - we (my wife and I) really like the 9.2C lot, and I had hoped we'd be able to be sailing one this spring, but that doesn't seem likely.

The Cape Dory was surprising - it had a single backstay that knocked me in the head when I was at the wheel. So, I would need to split the backstay or get used to steering from the side all the time, which didn't seem the best way to use the boat. The cockpit also seemed a bit small for our purposes, and the companionway stairs were both too steep and too small for me to feel comfortable having my wife and kids climb them. Otherwise, she was in decent shape. She was probably the nicest of the boats I saw today, though she wasn't without her issues. If the cockpit was a little bigger, and if the backstay wouldn't have banged me in the head all the time, I'd probably have made a run at buying her today.

The Pearson 30's cockpit was also strange - with the wheel as far forward as it is, you can only seat 2 (one on either side) in the cockpit. Keeping a seat clear on either side of the wheel for the captain, you're then out of room in the fairly large cockpit because of the traveler, which is mounted across the back "seat" in the cockpit. The wheel being so far forward did make it easy to access all the sheets and lines, which is great, and the backstay wasn't a problem, either. If it weren't for the "funky" cockpit layout, that could have been a good boat for us. If anyone is in the market for a Pearson 30 in the Baltimore/Annapolis area, send me a PM. The seller was very nice, and the boat seems (to my very novice eye) to be in good shape. I'd like to help him find a buyer.

The Lancer's cockpit was nice. Not huge, but enough to fit 6 adults with some approximation of comfort. She wasn't set up that great for single handing, but she would do in a pinch. Some condensation/minor leaking issues, but I didn't see anything too major. I was even able to peek inside the headliner and, much to my surprise, it was actually pretty clean. Decent size head, too, and over all a clean looking boat, but the deck-mounted chainplates scare me. As much as I like the idea of them being "leakproof", I think I'd be more comfortable if they were attached internally. In addition, the cabin was small. The V-berth would have been a VERY tight fit for me (I'm 5'10"), and that means I'd have to come up with a solution in the salon area, since there's no quarterberth. She's also not a bad boat, just not the boat for me.

All of the boats that I saw are under $10,000. If anyone else is interested in them, I'd be happy to PM you links to the boats (where they exist), and to post my pictures of the boats on a semi-private site so you can review them.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Sorry n one of them were up to snuff. Keep looking the right one will come your way. Dont settle.

Sounds like that Islander wasnt mine then as mine had a factory wheel.

Dave


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

jimgo - Thanks for the updates on your search! Your story reminds me of ours, as we started with two kids on a 25er and currently sail a 28er (Irwin). Size-wise she was tight but very doable for a family of four. In fact, we spent 3 consecutive months cruising the Great Lakes in 2010 and never really felt too cramped, believe it or not. However, we now have a third daughter and are on the prowl for something bigger.

In any case, best of luck with your search!


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I do find that I often sit on the side of the cockpit when at the wheel, not in the centerline of the boat. This is especially true when single or double handing because this keeps the jib sheets in reach. You might consider that for the Cape Dory.

Was the "Pearson 30" really a 303?
PEARSON 303 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

It does look like they have the wheel very far forward. The 30 looks like it came stock as a tiller boat, perhaps you could convert it back?
PEARSON 30 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I, like Alex, prefer to steer from one side or another as a rule... But still it would be a major PITA to be clipping the back stay every time you crossed over behind the wheel. The problem with splitting the back stay is you'll likely create two such points instead of one.

In our last search we looked at an older Pearson with the binnacle forward - thought it odd; it interfered with companionway access. Bit too much, being right up against the bridge deck. The only advantage I could see is shelter behind/under a good dodger. Sight lines suffered a bit too, I thought.

Keep looking... Your boat is out there!


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Alex,
Yep, the boat was a 1978 Pearson 30, so she's from before the 303 came out. The wheel may have been aftermarket, I'm not certain and I don't think the seller would know, either.

The Cape Dory's cockpit was, if my memory serves me correctly, the smallest of the four boats I visited. It might work OK for the four of us, but any more will be a problem.

Faster, your comment about not giving up is very timely. I'm just about at the end of my search. I have a few more boats to look at, then I think I may give up. The local brokers all say sales are picking up, which means I'll have a lot of competition this season, and my pockets aren't as deep as many of the other buyers. Plus, the marinas I've talked to on the bay have said that they are getting busier, in part because some of the other marinas were hit bad and haven't recovered yet (and may not recover in time for the start of the season). So, if I wait too much longer (I still have another month or so, in my estimation), I'll be facing increasing competition on the buying side, plus I may wind up with a boat and no place to keep her! But I do appreciate the sentiment, and there are a few boats still to look at.

KWaltersMI - I like your blog! And thank you for the comment. I wonder some times whether I'm giving TMI. I REALLY appreciate Alex, Chef, Faster, et. al., taking the time to provide feedback, but some times I think I'm just wasting their time with my random observations and questions. It's nice to know that my search, and comments, might actually be helpful for others!

For what it's worth, here's my "short list" of boats that seem to fit my needs:

S2 9.2C
Catalina 30
Allmand 31
Hunter 28.5
Pearson 28 (cockpit was a bit tight, but not bad)
Islander 28 with wheel steering (the transom-mounted wheel was really great on the one I saw)

I have been aboard all of those, and they all could work for me. I'm curious to see the Hunter 34/35, Endeavour 32, Pearson 323, and S2 9.2A. The O'Day 30's look like they might work, too, but the cockpit seems like it might be on the small side. As of now, I'm scheduled to see the Pearson 323, Hunter 34/35 (I'm not 100% sure which it is), and S2 this weekend, though my last conversation with the brokers suggested that there might be an issue.

I still really like the Catalina 30 and the Allmand 31. For a family cruiser, they seem tough to beat.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I took the liberty of doing a quick regional YW search with a $12K max - nothing over 30 feet, but 16 candidates popped up.

1975 (Sail) Cruiser Boats For Sale

A few C30s, of course, and a Newport 30 that's arguably as roomy and possibly a bit quicker. The other interesting boat on this list is the Aloha 8.5.. take a look...


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Faster, you rock! Thank you very much for thinking of me.

I have a whole little routine at night where, once my kids are tucked into bed, I scour the 'net. I search Yachtworld for all the latest postings, BoatTrader, SailboatListings, BoatsFSBO, Craigslist (from Eastern CT to Norfolk, VA), and a few others. There are a few boats in the search results in your link that don't have wheels. Of the remainders, the ones in Erie and Union Hall will be cost prohibitive to transport. Deltaville and Lottsburg are pretty far, as is Norfolk, to drive only to be disappointed by a boat. Not that I'm ruling it out, mind you (my Craigslist search includes that area). The logistics of sailing a boat home from there could be tough, too (it's about 5-6 hours by car). I've either been aboard the boat (in the case of the Islander 28), tried to get aboard (in the case of the I30), or been in contact with (and my "budget" offer rejected by) all of those sellers.

Of the boats in Deltaville/Lottsburg, I really don't know that much about the Newport or the Aloha. If I wind up having to go that far, what do you think of those boats?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

The Newport is a Gary Mull design that probably goes quite well, they seem roomy boats for their size. I'd expect quality to be on par with Ranger and most of the other Calif. boats for that era.

The Aloha is a very rugged Ted Brewer design, more of a cruiser than the others.. but a solid boat that you could take just about anywhere, I'd think. Aloha's are well regarded certainly in Canada, they built a variety of boats, including two from Brewer (8.5/28 and a 34 footer), a Perry designed fractional 8.2/27, and a Holland-designed lightweight speedster the Aloha 30.

ALOHA 8.5 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

ALOHA 8.2 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

ALOHA 30 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

NEWPORT 30-2 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks! If I get down that way, or if I exhaust the local boats, I'll have to check those out. At our current spot in life, we favor comfort over speed, but if the Newport is a solid, fairly comfy boat, the extra speed would be nice. That's what helps keep the S2 9.2A's in the mix (plus the decent build quality).


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

I keep coming back hoping you've see the Hunter 34/35!

They are excellent coastal cruising boats, and in my opinion very easy to handle.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I asked the Hunter's broker for an update on that boat, and haven't heard back from her. She has been very responsive in the past, so I'm taking the silence as a bad sign. My guess is that the boat is available, but not at a price that will fit my budget and she's not sure how to tell me that.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I have also found its advantagous to make a list of the sailboat brokers in the areas and look at their listing directly. Many boats dont make it onto Yachtworld

For istance if you Goodle sail brokers in Rock Hall
You get, Salt Box, Gratitutde, Rouge Yacht and Sailing Emporium
If you Googled Annapolis youd get
Martin bird, Annapolis yacht sales, Integrity Yacht Sales, North Point Yacht Sails, Crudaser Yacht sales. and more

They sometimes have the listing on the sites a few dats before the larger ones do.

Just saying


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks for the suggestion! My wife may not be happy with you - now I'll have MORE searching! 

Many of the brokerages I saw seemed to use Yachtworld, BoatTrader, or SailboatListings. But you're right, I've hit a few that used SaltyDog or other services, and some keep lists on their web site without using any commercial services.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Okay, I have to share this listing. I'm still not exactly sure what it's for:
Seafarer 37 great ol hippy boat


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I got in touch with the broker for the Hunter 34/35 last night. She said that there is an issue with the engine, and the owners want that fixed before they re-list it. She's not sure how long the repairs will take, so if I go there this weekend, there's a strong chance that I won't be able to see the Hunter.

Back in November/December, I found an Allmand for sale and REALLY liked that boat. My family and I are cruisers, not racers, and that boat was one of the most comfortable "feeling" boats I had been on. Lots of beam, and enough length to spread out. I know they aren't good sailing to weather, and aren't exactly "high performance" boats, but for our purposes, that boat seemed like a good fit. Unfortunately, the boat needed work and when I itemized the repair costs and subtracted them from the NADA value, the discounted cost of the boat was significantly less than the owner was willing to take (which explains why the boat is still on the market). Over this past weekend, as I was looking at other boats, I found another Allmand and the owner didn't run screaming when I mentioned my budget, but did say it required some additional thought. So, I'm waiting to hear whether that boat is available. It is south of me, and many of the other boats are to my north, which puts me in a holding pattern as far as plans for this weekend. I have asked the Allmand owner for a decision ASAP, so I can make my plans. Either I'll be seeing the Allmand this weekend (and possibly a few others in that area) or heading out to see a Pearson 323, S2 9.2A, Endeavour 32, and possibly an Irwin 30.

Stay tuned...


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## Marcel D (Apr 15, 2012)

What about a Beneteau 285 we went out with 2 kids 3 weeks at a time. She was a nice boat very shoal I think 3' 11" draft. Very quick a nice sailer double aft and foward cabins. Lots of room down below 9'9" beam 28 feet over all with a 24'3" water line. We had a 1992 and loved her. Never a problem from day one you might also want to check out the Beneteau 30.5 just a little more boat. I have found the Beneteau line quite a goood value for what you get. Also check out the C&C 30 1988 also a double aft very nice boat. While I am at it check out the CS30 another Canadian built boat good quality.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Marcel,
Thanks, for the suggestions. I think the Bene's are both going to be out of my range. I haven't seen any, except ones that were damaged by a storm and more of a project than I want to handle.

I've seen a few C&C's, and one Canadian Sailcraft, but both are few and far between. When the C&C's filter down into my price range, most are pretty beaten up. But I'll certainly keep looking for them!

I heard from the Allmand owner, and they are willing to let the boat go in my price range, so I'll be making the trip to see her this weekend.


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## lyre (Aug 23, 2006)

Jimgo,
We have owned and sailed our 1984 I-28 for about 7 years. I spend about 1/2 the season single handing and the other cruising for up to a week at a time with my wife and 4year old. I'm biased, but think its an excellent boat all around. The PO loved it as well-so much that he not only invested multiples of its market value in upgrade s and maintenance, but they insisted on interviewing my wife and I before the sale (to make sure she would be cared for. Our little I-28 was featured in Robert Perry's more recent book. (Thanks Bob!) 
If you are still interested in the I28, pls send me a PM. I can in turn send pics etc. we are considering moving onto a larger boat. 
Good luck with your search!


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Lyre, that is a BEAUTIFUL boat, and she's very tempting! However, I've decided that I really want/need a wheel as my method of steering. Otherwise, i think I'd jump at the chance to own her.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I visited the Allmand today. The exterior was in great shape, at least for my budget. The interior needs work. Not a lot, but work. I think it will be sailable this season with a few weekends' worth of work, and then next winter I'll be able to do more. I've asked a local surveyor to do a quick walk-through, which he's doing on Monday. If that goes well (and I suspect it will), my family and I will sit down and discuss everything, then decide whether to go forward with a formal survey, or to find another boat.

I took lots of pictures of the outside, shot a video of myself entering the cabin and what that looked like, then either I didn't take pictures (could have sworn I took some!) or I screwed something up, but I don't have ANY shots of the interior. VERY frustrating!


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Of course the Islander is the better boat. The designer is a good friend of mine. Handsome too. But the Cat will be a far bigger boat below. So you need to decide what your priorities are. If you want good looks and stellar performance to with the Islander. If you want volume then the Cat 30 is the boat for you.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Bob,
I'm flattered that you would take the time to reply! The designer of the Islander 28 did a fantastic job. When my wife saw it, she was smitten! I only wish the boat was in better shape (i.e., not sinking). The performance is what keeps me coming back to the Islanders, but they are hard to find in my price range. Again, the designer did too good of a job, and they are holding their value too well (plus people just don't want to sell 'em). I'm sure the owners are all very appreciative of this, but for us "low budget" buyers, it's a real problem! 

My wife isn't a huge fan of boating, so I'm leaning more toward the comfort side than the performance side of the spectrum. I've stumbled onto an Allmand 31 that seems to be a diamond in the rough. I have a surveyor doing a walk-through today to see if there's anything major that is wrong with her. If not, I'll probably get him to do a formal survey in the next few days. I know she isn't going to win any races, but given the steady breezes at the NJ shore in the summers, I hope she'll be good enough for us to enjoy.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Jim:
I can't say I'm a fan of the Allmand. But I don't know it well.
The I-28 may be a bit lively for your wife.
Best of luck.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

bobperry said:


> Jim:
> I can't say I'm a fan of the Allmand. But I don't know it well.
> The I-28 may be a bit lively for your wife.
> Best of luck.


My first keelboat was an Island 28...Island Majic..very few on the East Coast at the time so noone knew what it was.

Even though we love our C&C 35MKIII that 28 Islander had so much character and looks and sailed so well it will always remain special

You always remember " your first"


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

The surveyor finally got a chance to do a walk-through today. He saw a few places where water had leaked in and damaged some ornamental wood, noted that some of the hoses (fresh water supply for sinks, etc.) would probably need to be replaced, said the wiring in the engine compartment needed to be cleaned up (a few places where wires weren't properly capped/soldered/etc.), and that there was some moisture in the deck near the chainplates, but no soft spots that he detected. He also said she has probably one of the biggest collection of junk in the cabin that he has ever seen, but otherwise she seems to be in good shape. So, I'll be scheduling a formal survey for a few weeks from now, and unless that turns up something really horrible (which is certainly a possibility), I think we're going to go forward with the Allmand.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Pictures?

:worthless:

Is the boats named Patience?


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

LOL...no.
She's the one listed on YachtWorld: 1980 Allmand 31 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

After all my complaining about not really wanting to go all the way to Norfolk, the opportunity presented itself (okay, I contacted the broker and asked, but still...), and I thought it was too good to pass up. So I drove down there last Friday night, then saw that boat and 2 others while I was there.

I've been pretty anal about taking pictures of all the boats, mostly so I remember what's wrong with them when I get home. I have some nice pictures of a Hunter 30 and the Newport 30 mentioned earlier in this thread. When I got aboard the Allmand, I took lots of pictures of the deck, cockpit, etc. I opened up the cabin to go below, and thought "hmmmm...I should video this because it will give me a better sense of the layout." So, I shot the video, which was REALLY poorly done - apparently I need to move even slower than I did - and then somehow I basically put the camera/phone away and didn't take it out again until I was off the boat. I could have SWORN I took pictures of the cabin, but they aren't on my phone anywhere!

Any way, here are a few of the shots:


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I don't want to post the video to Vimeo or YouTube, and Photobucket won't let me upload the video. So, unfortunately, I can't show you the cabin.


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## paul323 (Mar 13, 2010)

The Allmand certainly looks pretty. As you mentioned it - if you do get a chance, have a look at the Pearson 323. If in good condition, they are surprisingly roomy, shallow draft, seakindly motion. I really like the I28, but the P323 feels a lot bigger. Both the I28 and P323 are solid, well-built boats. IMHO, for boats of "a certain age", all other things equal I find the build quality of the Pearson and Islander ages better than Hunter and Catalina. Sadly this is also generally reflected in the price! (Disclaimer: I have a P323, my buddy has an I28).

The bit of advice I would give you is don't put too much weight on the looks. Look at the essential (read expensive) systems - engine, rigging, sail wardrobe, deck and hull integrity etc. If you are like many of us, after you buy your boat you won't have a lot of cash left over, so apart from minor things you'll probably end up living with that deisel with 100K hours which sometimes starts - and that will soon sour the prettiest looks!


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Paul,
Excellent advice! That's basically the approach I've taken - I can make her pretty later, but she needs "good bones". The Allmand seems to have those.

I REALLY liked the looks of the Pearson 323, and the Endeavour 32's. I know they are different boats, but they have some similarities to me. They are also in a "sweet spot" as far as size goes - not too big, not too small for a family of 4. There was no way I could get the Pearson owner down to my price. I tried!

There's an Endeavour 32 on Barnegat Bay that someone wants to sell me. She's a little more than I want to spend, though, and she'll need some work. In the end, I think the Allmand is the better choice. I'll have some costs associated with moving her from Deltaville to NJ, but hopefully those will be less than the difference in price between the two boats. Plus, there are some other advantages to the Allmand that I won't have with the Endeavour.


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## paul323 (Mar 13, 2010)

Wishing you the best of luck with the Allmand. From the photos she definitely looks like a well-sized, well laid-out and attractive boat. "There's many a slip 'twixt cup and lip' - I hope it goes through for you!


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks. If the formal survey goes well, I'll just have to figure out how to get her "home" to our area!


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

jimgo said:


> Thanks. If the formal survey goes well, I'll just have to figure out how to get her "home" to our area!


She looks great. Good choice. Cant wait to see what the inside looks like. If you need help bringing her north advertise here. Some of us may be able to help bring her up the Chessie and depending where you are going to keep here to your final destination.

If you stop evenings figure on a week home through the Chessie. If you go outside 2-3 days, but this time of year outside with a unknown boat could be difficult. Once you get her get unlimited Boat US towning.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

She also seems to have a lot of nice add on features too davits, bbq grill, nice safe side decks with double jib tracks, roller furling. Also shoal draft lat 4 ft fits your Barnegat Bay profile. 40 gallons fuel is good. Holding tank? Bimini and dodger.

She is showing a chartplotter with antanae is that right I see a radar also

Happy again you were able to find her. Anyway I can help l;et me know.

Dave


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

She seemed to be I good shape, and as you said, she has a lot of nice "bells and whistles." The dodger and Bimini covera appear to be missing, but I didn't tear the entire boat apart (she isn't mine yet!). She appears to need touch-up paint (or maybe it is dock rash), and the cabin needs some serious cleaning, but otherwise she appears sound. I will know more in a few weeks when we do the sea trial and inspection/survey.

Thanks for all the help you've already given. I may be looking for crew; if I do, I'll be sure to ask in a new thread.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Cool...I expect to meet up and raft up sometime in the future.

Dave


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

The current plan is to move her over two 3-day weeknds. The broker said she can stay where she is for a few weeks after the closing while I wait for good weather, which is great. I'll probably shoot for getting to Solomons the first day, then Rock Hall, then up to Chesapeake City. Then I just need to find a transient slip up near Chesapeake City and hang out there. I'll probably grab a slip there for 2-3 weeks, just to play it safe, though I hope to be out the following weekend, if the tides permit. Then, if I'm able to get the tides right, I hope to make the jump through the canal and down the Delaware Bay in a day. I know it will be a LONG day, but... Overnight in Cape May, then up to Great Bay for a night, and then hopefully "home," wherever that is.

I've started narrowing down the list of places in Barnegat Bay, and I think I'm down to the Marina at Southwinds (Forked River) and Shore Point Marina (Bayville) with Shore Point currently having a bit of a lead. They took some damage from the hurricane, though, so they are still rebuilding and I want to get out there and get a tour. Southwinds says they didn't get any significant damage, but if I'm going to visit Shore Point, I may as well visit Southwinds and Silver Cloud. 

I had hoped to at least meet people from Shore Point and Silver Cloud (still not entirely out of the running, but the most expensive of those still in contention) tomorrow at the boat show, but with the weather, I may not make it and I'm not sure that they will, either.

Both Shore Point and Southwinds said that they are starting to see an increase in activity as people rush to find slips because their old marina hasn't recovered from Sandy yet. I need to pull the trigger soon, but I don't want to put a deposit down without seeing the places.

On the bright side, if it turns out that they are sold out, then I'll just stay in the Chesapeake. Sailing Associates and Haven Harbor both seem like great options. HH didn't respond to my slip rental inquiry yet, but I think they were headed to AC for the boat show. Rock Hall would be an easy, 2-day trip from Deltaville, then I'm done.

Another option, once I price out the cost of any slips, is to have her hauled (by truck) from either Rock Hall or Chesapeake City over to the new marina. Being there would cut in half the number of miles as compared to Deltaville, plus the logistics seem to be much easier from there versus Deltaville. The boat has an 11' 4" beam, so that will complicate any trailering, but at least she would have to go over fewer bridges, and no tunnels, if we were in Chesapeake City. The boat has a deck-stepped mast, which makes things a bit easier, too. If I can't catch good weather within a week or two of my arrival up there, I might just take that approach. But I REALLY want to sail her from Deltaville to at least Rock Hall.

If nothing else, when I get in your kneck of the woods, I'd love to meet up.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

As you plan your trip consider this. Figure on averaging 5 knots.

37 miles to Pautuxet River and Solomons
43 miles to Severn River and Annapolis
40 Miles to Sassafras and Sailing Associates

22 miles to Chesapeake City
62 miles to Cape May
35 miles to Atlantic City
32 milkes to Barnegat


Rock Hall is only 20 miles from Annapolis so if you get that far in two days its worth it to push further north to the Sassafras or even Chesapeake City



Chesapeake City is really not an ideal spot. Rock Hall/ Worton/ Sassafrass all have really good marinas with lift outs. You can stop in Chesapeake City overnight and get a wall dockage the time of year you are going which isnt too bad. Or you go through the Canal and anchor behind Reedy sland on the Delaware and take a shorter 45 miles trip to Cape May

You can easily make Cape May in one day motoring down the Delaware with the current. You will also fit under the bridge in the Cape May Canal so no problem there.

The Jersey Coast. Cape May, Absecon ( Atlantic City) Barnegat ( dangerous but doable) and Maesquan are the ONLY onlets I would attempt. Little Egg Harbor Inlet is major trecherous, especially to a sailboat. The shoals which are numerous shift daily and are marked by balls in the water the Coast gaurd moves continuously. I would not attempt this as an entrance to get to Great Bay. There is a winding intercoastal from Atlantic City to Barnegat Bay that is mostly for powerboaters, but is doable in a shoal sailboat like you have. There are a number of members on here that have taken it and could help you out with that. Barnegat is also a possibility and is not bad if you know where you are going and the wind is not out of the NE.

Cape May to Atlantic City is one day and 1 day more to Barnegat Bay either way you go.

When if you get to this stage let me know and I can help you plan. Also the cost of trucking it will be a lot more than bringing it yourself and the trip is not that daunting in a 31 ft boat.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks! I was playing around with Active Captain and setting routes. I was trying to keep it to 50/60 NM/day.

If I grab a wall spot in Chesapeake City, is there a limit to how long I can stay? I looked at an S2 at a marina in Chesapeake City a few weeks ago. The marina was off the canal, but I had considered hanging out there for the few weeks. It would set me back maybe half an hour or so, so not really that bad, and if it gave me the ability to not have to worry about getting kicked out/set adrift, then I thought it might be a good solution.

I'm leaning heavily toward, assuming the weather is cooperative, jumping from Cape May to Atlantic City via the ocean, then coming in that inlet (looks wide and well dredged) and making the slog up the ICW to Great Bay. I'll probably grab a transient slip at Great Bay, in part because my wife and kids could easily meet me that evening (as opposed to being out on the island). If the weather is good, my boys could even stay with me that night, then we sail up to the marina the next day. It would be a long ride, but they might enjoy it.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Congratulations on finding a boat!



chef2sail said:


> If you stop evenings figure on a week home through the Chessie. If you go outside 2-3 days, but this time of year outside with a unknown boat could be difficult. Once you get her get unlimited Boat US towning.


+1 on TowBoat US.

I'd recommend against going outside. On the trip home problems will crop up. In the Bay you can always duck into a marina and deal with them. Once you go outside you're committed. We did this trip when we bought our boat, starting from Cutty Sark Marina in Little Creek. We lost the jib in a squall (UV rot at the head of the sail) and had some engine problems when sediment in the diesel tank got stirred up in the Delaware Bay.

I'd also figure on an average of four knots boat speed. We pushed it to try and do the trip in five days and ended up coming into marinas after dark every night which really upped the stress level. Being conservative in estimating your boat speed means you'll be tied up for cocktails when we were trying to spot unlighted day marks.

If you have the chance to do some day sails before the trip home I'd absolutely recommend it. It will help find and shake out any bugs.

You mentioned staying over at Chesapeake City between weekends. We did and you're very protected in there.

From Chesapeake City to Cape May keep an eye on the weather. Don't take the Delaware Bay lightly. Google Delaware Bay and Sailnet and you'll find some good advice for the trip and what to look for in the weather. Stay out of the shipping channel. The big boys move fast.

Chef is spot on about the inlets. Figure on slow going coming up the inside from AC into Great Bay. Bring Backwoods Off for that leg of the trip and a fly swatter for green heads.



jimgo said:


> I've started narrowing down the list of places in Barnegat Bay, and I think I'm down to the Marina at Southwinds (Forked River) and Shore Point Marina (Bayville) with Shore Point currently having a bit of a lead. They took some damage from the hurricane, though, so they are still rebuilding and I want to get out there and get a tour. Southwinds says they didn't get any significant damage, but if I'm going to visit Shore Point, I may as well visit Southwinds and Silver Cloud.


We're in Southwinds. They had some serious Sandy damage and they're in the process of repairing the docks, shorepower and restrooms now. The water level was about four feet in the West dock restrooms and condos. The first floor of the restaurant and office were also damaged. Southwinds isn't cheap but it's nice that you're close to the bay and walking distance to both the Beach Bar and Captain's Inn.

If they're talking to you about slips 42-48 on West Dock be aware that it's tricky getting in there with any kind of a cross wind because the power boats across from you all have bow anchors out into the fairway. Even the powerboat guys with twin engines have trouble with an east wind. We were originally in 44 and moved to the outside for that reason. You won't fit into any of the inner docks in the West side because the Allmand is an 11'4" beam and those are all 10' beam slips. You'll have an easier time on East Dock. You'll get boat wakes but they're not awful.

SilverCloud is definitely worth checking out. It's actually three marinas and you'll want to be in Tall Oaks, which is the sailors marina (and very friendly). Dave has an excellent service department. SilverCloud is also the place you want to be hauled out if another storm like Sandy comes in. And take a look at Ricks. It's a smaller less expensive marina between Southwinds and SilverCloud. I'm not familiar with Shore Point.



jimgo said:


> Both Shore Point and Southwinds said that they are starting to see an increase in activity as people rush to find slips because their old marina hasn't recovered from Sandy yet. I need to pull the trigger soon, but I don't want to put a deposit down without seeing the places.


You really want to walk the docks at any marina before you commit, preferably in the spring when the boats start going in. I don't know how true it is that slips are selling out because of the storm. But early in the season I plan on being very careful out in the bay. I'm hearing there's a lot of debris out there and charts won't be accurate for a while.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

JimMcGee said:


> Congratulations on finding a boat!
> 
> +1 on TowBoat US.
> 
> ...


Great advice Jim. I second Dave at Silver Cloud. They are a class act. We lost our water muffler and they helped repair it. Great people and very fair.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Jim,
Thanks for the feedback. How is Southwinds for kids? We're more "laid back" and quiet, and I was concerned that Silver Cloud, etc., would be too intense for us. Southwinds seemed quieter.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

jimgo said:


> Jim,
> Thanks for the feedback. How is Southwinds for kids? We're more "laid back" and quiet, and I was concerned that Silver Cloud, etc., would be too intense for us. Southwinds seemed quieter.


Southwinds is definitely laid back. But with kids I guess the answer is "it depends".

There's a couple on our dock with a two very young kids (boy & girl, maybe first grade), but there's not much for kids to do off the boat. They spend most of their time over at Tices Shoal with the kids during the day. If you don't already know Tices is a big raft up area (Google Tices Shoal).

They're the only kids on our side of the marina most weekends other than a few occasional teenagers. I don't recall seeing any kids over on East Dock. I've heard a lot of boats with kids left three seasons ago when Southwinds took out the pool to expand the restaurant. They've been promising a new pool "next year" since '09. But they've said money is tight. So between that and Sandy repairs I wouldn't expect a pool this summer.

Silver Cloud is three marinas with three personalities (click here for marina map). Wilbert's is adjacent to the owner's home; I've heard it's very quiet and only has a few slips. Silver Cloud is mostly power boats and has more of a party atmosphere. Tall Oaks is mostly sailboats and like Southwinds is pretty laid back. BBQ's on the dock are common and everyone is friendly. I haven't seen a lot of kids there but Silver Cloud does have a pool and I think more kids. If you don't mind a little bit of a walk you could get a quiet slip at Tall Oaks and walk the kids over to the pool. Lagoon slips (A & D docks) are protected from boat wakes and the fairway is huge so getting in and out is easy.

Tall Oaks also has a laid back yacht club with a mixture of racing and social members. TOYC.org.

You have two dock & dine locations on Forked River at Southwinds and the Captains Inn. Both are good places to sit by the water and people watch during the day. At night Captains is rockin', Southwinds is more laid back. Both have to shut down music at 10PM due to local ordinance.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks again, Jim! Actually one of the things keeping Southwinds in the picture was their pool, so it's interesting to hear that it won't be available. That helps winnow things down even more.

If we're in Barnegat Bay , I think it's now down to Tall Oaks/Silver Cloud, Shore Point, or, if we want to abandon the idea of a pool, Laurel Harbor.

Have you been up to Shore Point in Bayville? I like the idea of being there because, if the winds aren't right for sailing on the bay, I can always come in and sail the river which is fairly wide in that stretch. It's a quick hop out into the river from the marina, and then a 15-20 minute sail to the bay, which sounds good on paper. I do worry that it's a little unprotected depending on the winds, but it seems like it would be better than our last marina which looked directly out onto about a mile and a quarter of open bay to the south, the direction of the prevailing winds.

Tall Oaks will be about $1100 more for the year than Shore Point (including electric, pool fees, winter storage fees, etc.), and almost $2000 more than Laurel Harbor for the year. I'm a bit iffy about the way Laurel Harbor stores the boats, though (they use blocks, rather than jackstands), so I might have to winter her somewhere else, which would probably knock about $200 off of that difference. Tall Oaks is still cheaper than Dillons Creek - I'd love to go back there, but really can't justify it.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

jimgo said:


> Thanks again, Jim! Actually one of the things keeping Southwinds in the picture was their pool, so it's interesting to hear that it won't be available. That helps winnow things down even more.
> 
> If we're in Barnegat Bay , I think it's now down to Tall Oaks/Silver Cloud, Shore Point, or, if we want to abandon the idea of a pool, Laurel Harbor.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I'm just not familiar with Shore Point. Dillon's Creek is really nice. Just watch out for their attack dog! You might get licked to death. 

The only downside with Dillon's creek is there aren't any restaurants/bars that are walking distance as I remember. But if I had kids the pool and the lack of traffic would be BIG selling points.

I think you might be mixing up Southwinds with another marina. They filled in the pool around '09.

Honestly the marinas you're looking at are all good choices. Keeping the kids occupied when you're not sailing is an added dimension for you that we don't have (our son is grown).

And look at the bright side; if you aren't thrilled with the marina you pick you can always try out the others by taking a transient slip for the weekend. The great thing about a boat is you can always cast off the lines and move to another marina. We started on LBI and moved up to the bay to get away from the crowds. Try that with a condo!


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

LOL...I drove by Southwinds and saw all the sand in the pool, but I assumed that was Sandy damage.

I really liked Dillons; the owners were fantastic, and the "guard dog" was an adorable puppy when we were there.

And i agree with your comment about moving. I would rather not have to, though!


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Looks like a boat that will suit your needs well. I think a lot of folks get too hung up on performance, you need something to get the wife and kids on the water. This will do that in comfort. A bit of cleaning and you should be set. If the boat is still as cluttered as when the pictures were taken, then I am not surprised that you could not find the canvas. I will never understand why people don't clean up there boats before trying to sell. 

I watched the "video Gallery" of the boat and the funny thing is that it is obviously a computer voice, and it read 1 16 horse motor as having a 116 horse motor! I almost laughed out loud when I heard it.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

jimgo said:


> LOL...I drove by Southwinds and saw all the sand in the pool, but I assumed that was Sandy damage.


LOL, I was scratching my head trying to figure out "sand in the pool".

That's their beach bar between the dock and the restaurant. During the summer they bring in palm trees and Adirondack chairs and have a band playing in there.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Jim,

I went back and looked at the satellite pictures, and you are right, I was confused. I did drive by Southwinds, but the marina I was remembering was Key Harbor in Waretown.

So, now that that is cleared up... (Wow, old age setting in already?)


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I stayed at Dillions Creek the first four years it was open in the 80s. Dilons Creek may be worth the money because you can take the kids on LBI at night if they are really bored.

One last place to consider. When we travel from the Chessie to New England/Long Island Sound we usually come in Barnegat Inlet and anchor in Meyers Hole behind the light house.

One year we had to hang out a few days due to weather and we went a little further back to the High Bar Yacht Club. First Class facility where the slips are owned, buy plenty are rented out. The trip to Barnetgat Bay is a short 2 miles intracoastal one or you can go out into the ocean.

Not sure of the price

High Bar Harbor Yacht Club


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

OK, the waiting is driving me NUTS. I have plotted courses (a few different ways, depending on the weather, how tired I get, etc.), found marinas/docks/anchorages, figured out what I need to bring, orderd a few things, read most of the write-ups about the boat, read more about sailing, etc. My wife and I are scouting out marinas this weekend, and then hopefully that decision will be made soon, too. Now, all I can do is wait for the 8th and the survey.

I DO need to get in touch with the USCG/NJ Marine folks who are responsible for some of Barnegat Bay. Any suggestions on how to go about that? I found the NJ department (in the Environment department, I think) that's based in Forked River, and tried E-mailing them since they are responsible for some of the channel markers in the bay, but they haven't replied.

Otherwise, I wait. Gahhhh!


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

jimgo said:


> OK, the waiting is driving me NUTS. I have plotted courses (a few different ways, depending on the weather, how tired I get, etc.), found marinas/docks/anchorages, figured out what I need to bring, orderd a few things, read most of the write-ups about the boat, read more about sailing, etc. My wife and I are scouting out marinas this weekend, and then hopefully that decision will be made soon, too. Now, all I can do is wait for the 8th and the survey.
> 
> I DO need to get in touch with the USCG/NJ Marine folks who are responsible for some of Barnegat Bay. Any suggestions on how to go about that? I found the NJ department (in the Environment department, I think) that's based in Forked River, and tried E-mailing them since they are responsible for some of the channel markers in the bay, but they haven't replied.
> 
> Otherwise, I wait. Gahhhh!


Call the CG station at Barnegat Light. They are at the lighthouse at the inlet

Station Barnegat Light Phone Number. 609 494-2661

Station Barnegat Light Fax Number. (609) 494-4856

Station Small Beach Haven Phone number. (609) 492-1423


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

TowBoat U.S. Barnegat Light:

Home Page

(609) 494-6385


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

I don't know why, but I feel funny about calling the USCG on a personal matter - I feel like I'm taking them away from national security business. Jim, the pointer to TowBoat US was perfect. I talked to someone there who said Barnegat Inlet isn't bad except when there are northeast winds; then it can get a little rough. There can occasionally be breakers there, but they tend to be toward the middle of the inlet, and the channel is along the north jetty. He said, depending on the conditions, it can get a little "fun" in the 200' stretch where the jetty is submerged, but other than that it's pretty easy. The bay isn't bad either; they've been updating the markers and there should be at least 6-8' the whole way from the inlet to at least Forked River, though he said the channel really snakes in places (especially near the #34 marker, where it makes a hard left as you're coming in from the inlet).

Thanks, that really helped me a lot!

Now I just have to watch out for whales.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

jimgo said:


> I don't know why, but I feel funny about calling the USCG on a personal matter - I feel like I'm taking them away from national security business. Jim, the pointer to TowBoat US was perfect. I talked to someone there who said Barnegat Inlet isn't bad except when there are northeast winds; then it can get a little rough. There can occasionally be breakers there, but they tend to be toward the middle of the inlet, and the channel is along the north jetty. He said, depending on the conditions, it can get a little "fun" in the 200' stretch where the jetty is submerged, but other than that it's pretty easy. The bay isn't bad either; they've been updating the markers and there should be at least 6-8' the whole way from the inlet to at least Forked River, though he said the channel really snakes in places (especially near the #34 marker, where it makes a hard left as you're coming in from the inlet).
> 
> Thanks, that really helped me a lot!
> 
> Now I just have to watch out for whales.


Barnegat Inlet is still a trecherous inlets as far as sailboats. I have been in and out 50 times. The action is noy just difficult for NE winds, but and Eastern companent vs an opposibng tide creates issues. What makes Barnegat so tricky unlike CM, AC, or Mnqn is the shoals which extend out over 1.5 miles from the inlet on either side of the entrance. Created by a fast current draining the Barnegat Bay the water runs into the littoirial ocean currents and waves and drops sand just like in River entrances. These ahoals take the ocean at 60 ft and drop the depth to 12 ft in a matter of 100 yards creating breaking 10 ft wave out of a normal 3 ft ocean swell. The whitewater from these waves with the wind direction may send them crashing perpendicular to the channel you are trying to navigate and hit a slow moving sailboat broadside on the way in crating difficulty oin steering and controll. This is Barnegat,

Also Barnegat has a peculiarity in that once inside the rock jetties 1/2 the inlet is shoaled and impassible and the green can lies 2/3 of the way over to the North jetty. This green can is about 100 yars in a 1000 yard stretch after entering the jetties from the ocean. It forces boats to hug the north jetty all the way in. It looks unusual and many smaller boats go aground right oin the current filled inlet entrance as seeing the grren can just looks unusal, 
Once at the back of the inlet you have to make a 90 degree turn at a red num and travel perpendicular across the inlet rear, directly across the current no matter which way it runs.

After the inlet is a confusing cluster of markers which lead to the passage from tehre to Barnegat Bay. It is shallow, and it is winding with the channel 100 ft wide. Matkers every 100 yards. The penalty for runnning out of the channel is a hard sand grounding into a canyon wall.

Its doable and I have done it, bit rememebr Tow Boat US is a powerboat. Mopre difficult in a sailboat. I would always rather come in Barnegat ( safe conditons) then take the intercoastal from AC. If you decide to do this lets talk so I can vervbally apint you the poicture in this inlet. I have done this many times with other not familiar. You want a good picture before you go in as once in it the current and the waves happen fast and you want to know where you are going.

Dave


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Dave,
Once we are past the survey, I will certainly give you a ring.

We visited the marinas today, and Tall Oaks/Silver Cloud won my wife's vote despite the higher price. So, I'll be calling them tomorrow to talk about a slip.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

jimgo said:


> Dave,
> Once we are past the survey, I will certainly give you a ring.
> 
> We visited the marinas today, and Tall Oaks/Silver Cloud won my wife's vote despite the higher price. So, I'll be calling them tomorrow to talk about a slip.


Good choice. With the amenities it will entice her and the kids. lBI is close too.

Dave


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