# How much below asking to offer?



## BlowinSouth (Nov 10, 2007)

As I prepare to make offers on some boats, I'm wondering how much below the asking price to offer.

I've only purchased one boat previously and the asking was $9,995 and I offered $7,500 expecting to negotiate a little and settle around $8,000- 8,500but he took the offer which of course made me wonder if I could have gotten it for less.

I know it depends a lot on the boat, the broker, the owner, time of year etc... but I was just wondering what other people have gotten their boats for versus the asking price.

If you're not comfortable posting what you actually paid you can tell me in percentages. Example you got the boat for 25% less than asking, 35% less than asking etc...

Any info will be very helpful.

Thanks again for all the help and support from the forum. This is a great place for knowledge!

Steve


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

Well,I can't add any figures; I'm just approaching the point where you are at....

But consider your bargaining points.

1) Cash on Hand? no wait for financing, holidays are coming, need that cash

2) Layup fees. Will you be taking on the winter storage costs?

3) Commissioning costs: The buyer won't have to commission in the spring!

This may be a good time for some of these bargaining points.


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## primerate84 (Jun 14, 2006)

Once you decide on the boat, decide on how much you are willing to pay. For example, when I bought my boat, it was listed at $24,900 and I was willing to pay $23,000. My first bid was $19,000. Of course, the seller was insulted (as relayed by the broker), and came back at $24,000. I countered at $22,000 and the broker said he wasn't coming off the 24. I said fine, I'll keep looking. Ten minutes later, he called and said he would reduce his commission and get the marina to give me free winter storage ($500+ value) and the seller would take $23,500. (About $22,400 net to me.) I took the deal. Basically, don't get married to the boat emotionally during the buying process (do that after you buy it!). And always remember to make your offer contingent on a survey. After the survey, the game starts again if things need to be fixed.


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## Gene T (May 23, 2006)

It really depends on the boat, owner and broker. From what I have seen boats will sell somewhere between listing price and 40% off. I looked at a boat that the owner would not budge off the asking price and the boat did sell, I wasn't really interested in it. 

I offered 17% less for an over priced boat that is still on the market, has been for 3 years. 

After I do my research on value I offer what I think the boat is worth, almost ignoring asking price. I still don't have my next boat yet, but I am rather fussy.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

My advice is to ignore the asking price. It is often based primarily on what the owner thinks it's worth. Do your due diligence. If you find a boat you want to buy, get the broker or someone with accress to check actual selling prices in your area and base your offer on that alone. Also keep in mind that the higher the value, the more room to negotiate and the greater % of reduction in offer.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

There are three public sources of boat prices.
BUC, NADA and Boat US. BUC & NADA use a longer time horizon I'm told so you might see 2 year old sales. Boat US uses recent sales plus their experience with the insurance market and those valuations. So I find Boat US to be a bit lower in estimations.
Find out what similar boats are selling for and decide if you want to overpay for some reason like close proximity, bristol condition or perhaps the slip that comes with it.
I'm seeing a premium of 30% to 40% on many listed boats in the arena I'm shopping, over recent sales prices. Some of these boats have been for sale for 2 or 3 years.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Tough question to answer accurately, as there are so many variables (just as you mentioned). However, during my first boat purchase I told the the selling broker I was having trouble determining what to offer ('84 Newport 28 in virtually bristol condition with asking price of $22,500). She actually told me "it's customary to offer 10% below the asking price". So I did, and the $20K offer was immediately accepted. It was only later that I found out the owner already bought a bigger boat and was getting antsy to sell. I probably could have bought the boat for $18,500, which was the average high end asking price for those models at that time (which is what my yachtworld.com research was telling me...).

Next purchase was a custom Wm. Garden Gulf 40, also in nearly bristol condition. This was through the owner (no brokers involved), and he was asking $65K. My research told me the boat was worth that and more, so we offered $58K. He responded with, "I'm sorry, even though that is the best offer, we're selling it for $65K and not a penny less". I said OK, and bought it. We sold the boat 4 years later for $65K, telling the first offer I got the same thing.

Current boat, a '78 North Sea 33 pilothouse cutter, was originally on the market at $39,500. Ended up buying it more than a year later for $28K.

So, as you can see, it's difficult to find a "rule of thumb" to employ, especially when it comes to buying used boats. Suffice to say, the more you know about a particular boat/model you're planning on making an offer, including market values over the last 5-10 years, the more empowered you are in not only making an educated offer, but you might very well know more than the seller in that regard and could convince him to accept your offer...


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## tommyt (Sep 21, 2002)

I cannot tell you how many times this question is asked on this board and others. The answer....there is no answer!

Like a car, house, RV,or job, the boat is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Does not matter what the seller or broker want it to be worth, it is what the person with the money is willing to pay for it.Period!

Do your due dilligence, figure out what it is worth on the market, what you are willing to pay to become the next owner, and negotiate from there. Make sure that a survey is part of the buying equation so you have room to get things fixed as part of the buy.

However, if you want to buy my boat, I will take 40% less than the exhorbitant price tag I will put on it for people that think 40% is the right number. A smart owner will put a fair price on the boat if they want to sell it. Unfortunately, as in housing, people that are selling do not usually do their due diligence either. They price it based on how much they need to buy the next one or pay off the mortgage. Lots of that going around in the housing market today. Not working really well either.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

My boat had been on the market two months before I got her for 13K. I bought her for $ 20.00 USD plus $ 679.00 in back moorage. Negotiate.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

Don't be afraid to start low and don't be worried about insulting the owner or broker. It's your money and you have decide how much of it is well-spent on the boat your considering. I personally purchased my most recent boat for less than half the asking price, but it is a major project that the owner just wanted removed from his yard because he was relocating. The more you know about the owner's situation, the more you know about the boat, the more you know about the competition, the better deal you'll get. It pays to educate yourself.


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## BlowinSouth (Nov 10, 2007)

All excellent info guys!

Here is part two of my situation. I'm in New Mexico (not too many coastal cruisers here to look at- more like none) All of the boats I'm interested in are in the Gulf and east coast. So what I'm thinking is this.

I have a list of 10-15 boats that meet my needs and are in my price range (or will be if they accept my offer) I thought I would make offers on all of them and see who accepts (or comes back with a reasonable counter) and then take a few days to drive out and look at the ones that made the short list and finalize details in person.

Is this acceptable? Or is it discourteous/unprofessional to make offers on multiple boats at the same time?


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

_You_ are the _customer_; you're not applying for a job. Don't think that a broker would hesitate to take more than one offer, if no sort of purchase & sales agreement is signed.

It sounds like a fine plan to me, make a trip of it and report back!


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

I suppose you're talking about verbal offers. As you may know, verbal offers mean zilch so either you or the broker/seller can back out. Be aware that some brokers may say that your verbal has been accepted just to get you to make the trip out to see the boat.


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## DrB (Mar 29, 2007)

My price:

Asking $27.5K, I offered $24.5K, Seller countered with $25K. Deal was done. Boat was in outstanding condition, basically sailed her away. Other boats for sale of same model, albeit older and less equipped and sometimes in poorer shape, were asking same money. 
I don't think I could have got the boat much less.

Folks said I got a good deal. My sailing cousin, who is notorious for nickel and dimeing people, said I got a great deal. I wasn't unhappy with what I paid.

Previously, I made an offer on a boat that was listed at $44.9. I offered $32K knowing that the owner was carrying two boats at the time. He thought I was kidding, but said he would entertain $39K. I walked. Boat is still for sale (almost a year later), except it is now listed at $38.9K.

If you are comfortable with your offer and the boat, you weren't screwed.

We always ask "Did I leave money on the table?". If you worry about that, you won't enjoy your toy.

DrB


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

There really isn't a set formula, since it will vary a bit with each individual boat and circumstance. Your best bet is to do as much research about what comparable boats are selling for, and to price accordingly. The asking price is really not all that relevant in many cases, and Ajari's points about using winter storage costs and such as a bargaining point are good ones.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

BlowinSouth said:


> All excellent info guys!
> 
> Here is part two of my situation. I'm in New Mexico (not too many coastal cruisers here to look at- more like none) All of the boats I'm interested in are in the Gulf and east coast. So what I'm thinking is this.
> 
> ...


Do I understand correctly that you suggest making offers with deposits on each? Since an "offer" is earnest only when accompanied by a deposit, I think you intend otherwise. An "offer" absent a deposit is meaningless as is any response you receive from the owner and/or broker. You are only misleading yourself if you believe anyone will accept such a non-binding offer.
Even if you do business the old-fashioned way of a handshake, you can't be sure the other party is. Similarly, there is nothing to stop the seller from accepting a higher offer, particularly one with money involved, and that leaves you out where you frankly belong.


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

"k", I read him as to mean that if he didn't get a strong negative on his price query, he'd then go to the next stage of visiting in person.

At least that's the assumption I was working under.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

Ajari
I like that description but not sure if it is fundamentally different


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

Well, I see it going something like this. And it may not work; but it would not be against my principals:

Contact the 6 or 8 brokers, suggest a possible offer price, and see how badly they laugh. If you get a lot of, well, "I'll see what a counter might be"; go ahead and book a viewing. It's not unlike real estate, IMHO.

There is a certain assumption that a starting point might be reached before making the investment of travel (IE: before a hard offer with $ changing hands). It's not like he's saying he wants a sea trial, he';s just querying if it's even worth making the trip.

If he hears laughter in the background, then he has his answer.


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

I wonder if anyone here would fess up to being a broker and post his/her thoughts?


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

I'm faced with long distance shopping. I have about 8 boats I'm considering. I won't be making any offers sight unseen, it's pointless. I've already seen a few boats that looked great on yachtworld but that I would not buy at any price.
What I am going to have to do is go to the boats and look at them personally.
If I find a lone boat in a distant location, I may request assistance from this board by asking for someone local to take a brief look. I know I'd do it for someone looking for a boat around my neighborhood. The other idea I've heard is to hire a surveyor to take an hour to do a preliminary peek.


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## BlowinSouth (Nov 10, 2007)

k1vsk said:


> Do I understand correctly that you suggest making offers with deposits on each? Since an "offer" is earnest only when accompanied by a deposit, I think you intend otherwise. An "offer" absent a deposit is meaningless as is any response you receive from the owner and/or broker. You are only misleading yourself if you believe anyone will accept such a non-binding offer.
> Even if you do business the old-fashioned way of a handshake, you can't be sure the other party is. Similarly, there is nothing to stop the seller from accepting a higher offer, particularly one with money involved, and that leaves you out where you frankly belong.


No I'm not going to put any money down until I've seen the boat and of course there's nothing to stop a seller from accepting a higher offer, if offers are pouring in on used sailboats during the winter I'd be very surprised. And I'll have others on my list in the same general area if it does sell.

Ajari is exactly correct. I just want to see if we (the seller/broker and I) are in the same ballpark pricewise before I travel all the way across the coutry to look at it.

$15k is my max. If the listing price is say 18,19 or 20k and I call in a verbal offer of say 14 and they laugh then I'm not going to waste my time.

You offer good criticism but no suggestion. What would you do in this situation?

And where is it that I belong and why?


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

I agree with an earlier comment. The broker will say sure, come on down. He'll figure once you're here, he can convince you to pay just a little bit more. "Sorry, the seller changed his mind and won't go for that offer. He has another possible offer for just a bit more, I think if you come up just a $1000 I can get him to sign." 
So I would think your idea is rather unreliable for any meaningful answers.


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## merttan (Oct 14, 2007)

I think, at this time of the year, start as low as possible. You'd never know how much they are willing to go down... Just don't show them how much you really like the boat or how much you can spend actually. And make a list of upgrades required on the boat to see actual cost... If you want new gps, chartplotter etc., look for bargains while the season is out and marine stores are having a clearance or sale...
And ask them if they have recent photos and survey of the boat... They might have them... Ask them to send you an e-mail of them... Ask for recent photos, they can go to the yard take pictures and e-mail them to you. There are a lot of boats have been on dry dock for so long the picture on the ad doesnt even look like their actual condition.


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## ccam (Dec 17, 2006)

xort said:


> I'm faced with long distance shopping. I have about 8 boats I'm considering. I won't be making any offers sight unseen, it's pointless. I've already seen a few boats that looked great on yachtworld but that I would not buy at any price.
> What I am going to have to do is go to the boats and look at them personally.
> If I find a lone boat in a distant location, I may request assistance from this board by asking for someone local to take a brief look. I know I'd do it for someone looking for a boat around my neighborhood. The other idea I've heard is to hire a surveyor to take an hour to do a preliminary peek.


BlowinSouth, this is probably the best advice yet and makes perfect economic sense. I sure would have tried this had I known.


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

are you the guy that asked me 20 questions about my cat27 on ebay?


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## ccam (Dec 17, 2006)

No, but if they're from this one horse town, I'd know'em.


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## BlowinSouth (Nov 10, 2007)

cardiacpaul said:


> are you the guy that asked me 20 questions about my cat27 on ebay?


Nope not me. I'm looking for something a little bigger.


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

Just for the record, I would be more than happy to grab my digital camera and go visit any boat within a couple of hours from my home that someone here is interested in. (that would be anywhere from Erie PA to Syracuse NY)

That might be something we could all do for each other, on a limited basis. Just a thought.

Fred


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## LyleRussell (May 3, 2006)

I had this conversation about 3 months ago. I was looking for a factor to multiply asking prices to give me a ballpark price. Do a search on my userid in Boat Buying.

Thae answer after 30 or so replies. "It depends". CardiacPaul, a surveyor, posted a table of ask vs sales prices of boats that he has looked at. They were everywhere from 50% of asking to 90%. 

BUC and NADA are worthless based upon my direct experience. For cars maybe, but they don't have enough raw data to do boats well. 

My solution is to contact the BoatUS Insurance folks and ask about a boat of interest. The price you get is what they will agree to insure the boat for. The lady that responded was excellent. Her potential sales price appeared to be well researched and realistic. I would still make the initial offer a bit below what she suggests. 

What ever you do, make any offer contingent upon a survey. 

Finally if you need someone to do a "walk by" of a boat in the Chesapeake area before travelling here email me.


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## BlowinSouth (Nov 10, 2007)

LyleRussell said:


> I had this conversation about 3 months ago. I was looking for a factor to multiply asking prices to give me a ballpark price. Do a search on my userid in Boat Buying.
> 
> Thae answer after 30 or so replies. "It depends". CardiacPaul, a surveyor, posted a table of ask vs sales prices of boats that he has looked at. They were everywhere from 50% of asking to 90%.
> 
> ...


Good advice, I look for that thread and thanks for the offer to do a "go see" for me, I might just take you up on that.

Thanks to you Ajari


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## gavinandrebecca (Oct 28, 2007)

Fiirstly, appologies for hi-jacking thread. But If there is any 1 who going the distance to look at yachts it's me! I am an Ausralian going to east coast USA, starting at BVI though.Might as well make a holiday out of it. I was curious if lyle is serious about a walk by as there is a tayana 42 in bowleys quarters that i been looking at. But seriously, would any1 buy a boat they have NOT stood on! I for one will be looking at, Examine coroner like, offer 10% less than what the broker suggest ( these guys have knowledge of what owner will take) Surveyor, re -offer with fixes, shake down sail. Only upon complete satisfaction will sale happen. Remember, money in the bank earns money, yachts on the marina/hard/moorings are a liability. 
Lyle can i email you?
good luck on $15,000 boat blowin'


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

gavinandrebecca said:


> Examine coroner like, offer 10% less than what the broker suggest ( these guys have knowledge of what owner will take) Surveyor, re -offer with fixes, shake down sail.


I think you have a good plan except for the 10% part. I would guess that all boats are priced at least 15% high and as i stated earlier, I've been seeing a lot of 30% to 40% premiums.
Do your research, it's pretty easy; and offer what it's worth minus 10% for dickering. Ignore the listing price altogether!


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## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

Gavin, or Rebecca, I don't think anyone here is suggesting that they would _buy_ a boat based on a walk-by from one of the other members. (Oh God, I Hope NOT!)

I think the real advantage would be someone local who can do a quick comparison between the boat as listed and the obvious state of affairs on the ground.

(Gee the listing never said that the boat was being used by a family of Raccoons for then winter! And What's with that hole in the port side? Looks great, but the Boom came off when I leaned on it!) That sort of thing.

A mutual aid society.


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## LyleRussell (May 3, 2006)

GavinandRebecca

Check your sailnet email. 

I'd be happy to do a walkby at Bowley's Quarters. Perhaps get some pictures too. Remember I am NOT a surveyor


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## punjabi (Jul 16, 2007)

I'll throw my hat in too. If anyone needs someone to check out a boat in the Long Beach / San Pedro area, let me know. I'm a complete novice, but I could probably spot something major like if the boat was underwater or didn't have a mast. I can also take pictures and smell things. Just beware that I'm looking for a boat as well, so if you send me to check one out that I like, I'll tell you its a piece of crap and buy it for myself. Sorry. All's fair in love and boats or something.


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