# Wood vs Fiberglass Maintenance cost/time



## Magaluza (Jun 25, 2012)

Hi, my husband and I are in our mid-40s, still employed (I work from home). We are spending so much on rent in this Area, that we decided to buy a boat and live aboard for a few years, which will actually let us save enough money to hopefully put a down payment on a house (here/somewhere else) in the next 5-10 years. We are pretty adventurous and are very excited at the thought of our new lifestyle. 

Of course, neither one of us has boating experience and don't know what the maintenance of a boat entails.

But here is the thing. I have fallen madly in love with a Wood Yacht - the interior is beautiful and will require very little upgrading to fit our lives.

A friend of ours (with extensive boating experience) and just about anybody else we talk to, is telling us how much work, time and money the maintenance of this boat will involve.

Choosing a boat is causing a rift between my husband and I. I feel, that if I'm going to live somewhere for the next 10 years of my life, I should love the place. He, being the guy he is, is less impressed with the stainless steel appliances, how pretty the kitchen cabinets are and how great it is to have an enclosed shower ... all he cares about is that instead of spending his weekends relaxing, he's going to have to spend them painting decks, varnishing and God knows what else. He makes the intensity and amount of work sound so overwhelming, I'm almost ready to give in -- but the reality is we don't know for sure.

So that's my question. Before I start the process of trying to forget that beauty I fell in love with, and agree on the purchase on this, in my opinion, "less pretty" fiberglass boat we've seen, I need to know for sure what it is that I'm giving up. 

How often does one have to sand and varnishing the wood?
How often does one have to pain the deck? 

It is once a month, is it weekly? it is just once a year? 
I understand that if there is a leak, this will have to be addressed immediately, but these can be prevented by calking, etc often (what does often mean?)

I also understand the need to hull out the boat and repaint the bottom once every year or two (and how costly this will be) but, we could budget for this once every two year expense … 

And is it true, that having a fiberglass boat means that we get to spend the weekend relaxing for the next 10 years, sipping Margaritas while on the deck of our "Home" (I could be persuaded).

Can someone out there give me a reason to continue fighting for the wooden beauty I fell for?


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

All boats require a fair amount of maintenance. The wooden boat, *if in great condition*, should not be all that much more to keep it in top condition for someone with wooden boat experience. And for most couples, sanding and painting is the lady's job

We live aboard in our "tacky fiberglass boat" with formica counter tops and teak paneling and we love it. We spend a fair amount of time on maintenance and upgrades but we sail our boat a lot. more than most non live-aboards.

For your stated purpose, a powerboat would suit you much better.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

If you have to ask this question then you MUST not buy a 47 year old wooden boat.

The deck and exterior brightwork is small stuff compared to the annual haulout and the ongoing war against dry rot, wet rot, shipworm, termites,LEAKING GARBOARD PLANKS, failing caulking and the need to buy the best anti fouling. 

Oh yes go price a full length plank in teak, just one. Take a trank first though. Then find out the shipyard cost of replacing it. Plus the difficulty of finding a yard to work on it. 

Oh yes yards. Many yards no longer will haulout wooden boats. 

Don't get me wrong I love wooden boats William Fife built some of the most beautiful boats in the world. but they need deep pockets and teams of experts to keep them going.


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## Magaluza (Jun 25, 2012)

Thanks for your reply, Tim.

I edited my post because I have a legitimate question and I don't want the responses to focus on my insensitive, albeit unintentional, comment about how I feel about *this* particular fiberglass boat we are considering.

Anyway, the maintenance is not going to be just his responsibility, we restored a 1967 mustang and a 1976 VW camper together, and I have broken plenty of nails in the process. Perhaps I can use that as my pitch to get the Stephens! - but I want to know if this will be a weekly task? monthly? or as needed? - I want to enjoy the boat too and not spend my every "free hour" working on it.

I don't see us sailing a lot, so I see your point about the powerboat for us ...

thanks again for your reply!


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

Think about opening up and running a VW repair shop, then you're onto what it will take to keep a 47' wood boat in order. I love'em for sure, but just don't have either the time or $$$. If you do and it's your passion, go for it. Boating is a lifestyle choice for many. Wooden boats and their care are a priesthood (yes, women most certainly allowed!). Anyone who tells you differently either isn't being honest, or just doesn't know.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

No problem Magaluza, but with little experience, a fiberglass boat would be much better suited to your needs.

Older mustangs are known for rotten frame rails and being a unibody design, this was either the kiss of death or a very expensive and complicated repair. Very similar to a wooden boat. There are simply parts of the hull structure that will either kill the boat or will be very costly to repair. A fiberglass hull will keep you afloat for much longer with minimal maintenance. Keep looking, there are many beautiful FG boats with warm wooden interiors. I have owned a few.

TWA has a good point about yards willing to work on wooden boats. Living in Maine this is not a problem but other parts of the country it is.

Something else you should know is that living aboard a boat may not be cheaper than renting an apartment. Slip fees and maintenance can easily surpass rent costs. Talk to the folks currently doing it to get an idea what it could be like in your area.

If I am looking at the same boat I would be leery. The price was just recently reduced by nearly half. If this boat is in such great condition, someone would have snatched it up by now.

Give us a budget and we can help you find something beautiful, with relatively low maintenance needs. You should also be considering something a bit shorter in my opinion. A 35ish ft. boat should suit a couple well and be much cheaper than a 46 in terms of slip prices. Besides, the interior volume of that wooden 46 ft. boat is probably the same as a 35ft. FG boat.

Here is my former boat, an Ericson 35-3. FG with wood interior.


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## Magaluza (Jun 25, 2012)

Sigh! -- judging by your answers (and considering our little experience) - it looks like I need to be realistic and agree to go the Fiberglass direction. We certainly don't have the kind of time you talk about (or unlimited funds!) to maintain the boat as you describe it --- @TQA, I actually shivered reading your response!

It will be hard to get over it, though. The boat seems in great shape, but of course we wouldn't know for sure until we do the survey. 



Thanks all for your answers, and help!
M

PS: we have already calculated the budget for slip cost, additional live aboard fees (plus the storage, utilities cost, etc) and it saves us a huge chunk of money (rent in the San Francisco Bay Area is out of control!)


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I'd second Tim's suggestion to fully research the REAL costs of 'living aboard' - and get the real picture of the availability of legal, sanctioned liveaboard moorage. Living aboard on the hook or a mooring is usually not all that practical, esp if commuting to work is an issue for your husband.

[EDIT] - I see you've already addressed that... good...

That said, any wooden boat is going to be a great deal more upkeep than any glass boat... any boat in pristine condition will be easier (and cheaper) to keep that way than to turn a TLC project into that pristine boat.

Given your admitted lack of boating know-how I'd be looking for the coziest interior you can find with the space you need in a fiberglass boat. There will still be plenty to clean/wax/buff/fix along the way. And if you're not 'sailors' at heart, the added space per lineal foot of a powerboat makes way more sense. Esp if you're tied to the dock and not having to fill the fuel tanks.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I'd guess that many of us love the way some of the older wooden boats look. Even with my older fiberglass hulled boat I find that the maintenance chores list is never empty; there is always something to be done. That said, there are folks who have the love, money, stamina and time to own wooden boats: The WoodenBoat Forum

Forgetting about maintenance for a moment you might try to figure out an annual budget for keeping a 40' +/- boat (wood or glass) at a slip all year in the SF bay area.

Your plan sounds great to me but you need to crunch some numbers to get a realistic idea of what it will cost you to live aboard.

How to make a small fortune?
Start with a large fortune and buy a boat.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

BTW, here are some sample prices on wooden Kettenburgs and Stephens.

kettenburg (Sail) Boats For Sale

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/cache/searchResults.jsp?cit=true&slim=quick&ybw=&sm=3&searchtype=advancedsearch&Ntk=boatsEN&Ntt=stephens&is=false&type=%28Sail%29&man=&hmid=104&ftid=0&enid=0&fromLength=40&toLength=50&luom=126&fromYear=1960&toYear=1970&fromPrice=&toPrice=&currencyid=100&city=&pbsint=&boatsAddedSelected=-1

I think your idea of moving aboard is great. But I guarantee you that you better know something about wooden boats before getting into one. I have been sailing for 40 years. The only wooden boats I ever owned were dinghys and for good reason.

Good luck with your search and please give us some criteria so we can help. I love helping folks find the right boat, especially for LA.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

42' wooden boat for $5K? 
1968 Grand Banks Classic Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Wonder why it is so cheap?
From the ad: "THERE IS A LOT OF WORM DAMAGE AND ROT BELOW THE WATERLINE. A GREAT PROJECT FOR THE RIGHT PERSON!"

This problem would not occur on a 'plastic' boat.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

To the OP, if you're in the SF area and you're going to have a wood boat surveyed, use Kent Parker. Fiberglass for that matter too. Kent rocks, capital Period.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Hi Mag,
Welcome to the wonderful world of living afloat!
You need to start with Living Aboard 101.
"Wooden Boat" is not on the curriculum.
It isn't covered in Living Aboard 201 either.
In fact, it really should be a masters program.
A lesson I learned long ago about wooden boats (I have owned, fixed, built and continue ot own them) is that the boat you can afford is a boat that needs work you don't have the time or the skills to do, and if it needs that work you can't live aboard comfortably.

You are potential newbies to 
1- living aboard 
2-boating 
3-sailing AND 
4-wood boat maintenance. 
The only successful wooden boat owners I know are those who are newbies in only one category before they bought a wooden boat. ...
or those who only use their boats seasonally.

If you want character, look for an older Bayfield.


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## Jgbrown (Mar 26, 2012)

Compromise. Buy a ferrocement boat.  
Joking. 

On a less controversial note, finding a boat that suits both of you strikes me as a better solution. 
There are lots of boats with very pretty and roomy interiors, nicely appointed with wood interiors. If you are looking at maintaining a wood boat because it has a nice interior and appliances, why not buy a boat with an exterior that is durable, and spend the money, blood and sweat on making the interior exactly how you want it, with even nicer appliances etc instead.

Alternatively, find a boat you both like, that suits both your needs instead of one or the other only. I bet if you both came on sailnet, and had a thread with the things you were each looking for, people could help you find one you'd both be happy with.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

One of our Service Techs owned a beautiful wooden 40ft raceboat. He bought it in very good condition for about $10,000.

It made you weep to step aboard she was so beautiful. She was also nimble and graceful under sail. 

He did 99% of the work himself. In 5 years he spent over $100,000 in materials alone. She didn't have an engine or plumbing so these were not costs.

He sold the boat in showroom condition a few months ago for $10,000.


You will have to lightly refinish her at least once each year. You will need to haul out at least every 18-24 months and replace some planking. Plus you will need to maintain the rather complex systems of live aboard boat - AC DC electrical, plumbing, heating, etc etc.

imagine owning a house with a glossy wood exterior that needs to be varnished every year.


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## Magaluza (Jun 25, 2012)

Thank you so much for all your honest and very illuminating answers. It is clear to me now that as beautiful as the wood boat is, it can turn into ugly nightmare really soon. 

@bljones, you are right, we are newbies on every one of the factors you point out, and just adjusting to our new lifestyle will be challenging enough. 

We have done our homework (financially speaking), and have crunched the numbers and have set a budget (in terms of how much we want to spend on a boat, and the monthly/yearly cost of living aboard in our area. Checked 4 different marinas, and found the one we can afford and with easy commute to work for my hubby) and are comfortable taking this step. 

The only (big) bump on the road was the Wood vs FG issue, and I think I like @Jgbrown idea of finding a compromise!

Thank you all again for your help!
M


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## Magaluza (Jun 25, 2012)

Oh wow, @WDS123, that's so incredibly sad! - If i wasn't before, I am convinced now fiberglass is the only option for us.


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

There are pretty FG boats out there. There are even ones built in the style of wood boats, thogh they're often narrow and dark and not great liveaboards. But you can slap on as much exterior teak as you can handle to make them pretty, hopefully without ever affecting anything structural.

If you post your budget the people here can send you suggestions.

(Full disclosure: have 60+ year old wood boat. It rocks. It has very little brightwork. Its hull is quite sound. Its still got a heck of a long todd list....)


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Quick rules of thumb for figuring how much of your time a boat will take to maintain;

Fiberglass - more time than your wife wants you to spend.

Wood - more time than you have.


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## MattSplatt (Dec 10, 2010)

Where do metal boats fall along this spectrum? Lets say it started out meticulously cared for.
Is this a hijack? Ignore me if so.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

the one thing good about living aboard a wooden boat is that means you don't have a house to take care of. when you go home after work to the boat you can get right to work sanding, varnishing or repairing something every day. no wasted time going from home to the boat. on the weekends, just wake up on saturday and sunday get right to work sanding, varishing and repairing. 
also when you are repairing a house you can buy most of the stuff needed at the $100 store but with the boat you will be shopping at the $ 1000 store. 
if you live on a boat in SF you will not feel any of the work distracting earthquakes so you will not be alarmed and can just keep on sanding, varnishing and repairing without interruption


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

MattSplatt said:


> Where do metal boats fall along this spectrum? Lets say it started out meticulously cared for.
> Is this a hijack? Ignore me if so.


Steel boats require staying ahead of the painting to stave off rust. Attention to zincs/galvanic conditions is critical as well. If I owned a steel boat I'd definitely buy a MIG welder and learn how to use it well.

Aluminium just requires attention to electrical/galvanic conditions. You don't even need to paint them.

Full disclosure, I've never owned either - just observations from decades of hanging around marinas and boatyards.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

bljones said:


> Hi Mag,
> Welcome to the wonderful world of living afloat!
> You need to start with Living Aboard 101.
> "Wooden Boat" is not on the curriculum.
> ...


Phd. and several years of interning.


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## jimjazzdad (Jul 15, 2008)

Of course, if you asked this question over at The WoodenBoat Forum you might get a different answer. Modern wooden boat construction and material may also make maintenance easier. Even an older wooden boat that has been well maintained will be less work than a badly maintained boat - wood or fiberglass. Fiberglass boats probably tolerate neglect and abuse better.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

jimjazzdad said:


> Of course, if you asked this question over at The WoodenBoat Forum you might get a different answer. Modern wooden boat construction and material may also make maintenance easier. Even an older wooden boat that has been well maintained will be less work than a badly maintained boat - wood or fiberglass. Fiberglass boats probably tolerate neglect and abuse better.


I'm sure there are lots of guys out there, like CharliCobra, to whom hand planing a winding, tapered bevel to a 64th on a plank is childs play.

To us mere mortals however, saturating some glass cloth with resin is a little closer to an attainable skill set.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

Having just spent my 4th Saturday stripping and re-varnishing the 5ft x 3" piece of Teak trim across the stern, I can honestly say that a fibreglass boat with a few bits of Teak brightwork is all I cope with.


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## Jgbrown (Mar 26, 2012)

what about cold molded? low maintenance, and its wood inside. http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...back=boatDetail.jsp&boat_id=2380014&noOfPic=1 -

Out of price range, but a good example. If I could afford it though... Pretty wood interior, lower maintenance hull.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Jgbrown said:


> what about cold molded? low maintenance, and its wood inside. View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com -
> 
> Out of price range, but a good example. If I could afford it though... Pretty wood interior, lower maintenance hull.


Cold moulded is my personal favourite - best of glass and wood. It's not really a wood boat in the sense we are discussing here - it's properly termed a composite boat because the wood is merely the fiber - it's the combination of fiber and resin that makes the material.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

SloopJonB said:


> Cold moulded is my personal favourite - best of glass and wood. It's not really a wood boat in the sense we are discussing here - it's properly termed a composite boat because the wood is merely the fiber - it's the combination of fiber and resin that makes the material.


If it's your personal favorite, you've obviously never owned one. Best of glass and wood?? Surely you mean the opposite. It might look flash but if you ever get any hull damage, personally, I don't think anyone has yet invented a more complicated and expensive system to fix! 

Cold-moulded makes traditional timber repair look like child's play.

Wood vs Fibreglass?? In my experience, when people talk about "low maintenance" and "boat" is the same sentence, they usually mean "absolutely NO maintenance unless absolutely necessary - we just want to sail the thing". A traditional timber boat needs some level of regular maintenance perfectly within the capability of a live-aboard whereas a f'glass boat needs none at all - until almost-too-late.

Both $$$ and time average out in the long term leaving only personal preference as the real decider.. but most go the "no maintenance" route - buy f'glass, sail it for a while and then sell it as a "project boat" just before it becomes too expensive to fix.


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

I looked into buying a wood boat once, but it "popped a plank" while the owner was moving it and sank like a rock. No problem the owner said, "it does that all the time", if it happens to you just get it hauled out , and get a new plank, no problem.......I bought a fiberglass boat.

It feels good to own a boat that does not rely on rustable fasteners to stay together, and isn't considered food by the stuff the grows under the waterline.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

CapnBilll said:


> It feels good to own a boat that does not rely on rustable fasteners to stay together, and isn't considered food by the stuff the grows under the waterline.


You make a good point: buying any boat requires that you know a fair bit about it's pedigree and it's limitations before signing on the dotted line.

By example, the 'non-rustable' fasteners on my timber boat are now over 60 years old and are probably good for another 60... but the odd blister or two below the water-line of your fibreglass boat might or might not be as easy (or cheap) to fix.


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