# When is it time to replace your autopilot?



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I never had an autopilot before my current boat. It has an Autohelm 6000, I'm guessing about 15 years old. So far I'm not pleased with it's performance. In a moderate chop it wanders a good bit. I should measure it but I'm going to guess 10 degrees either side of the course while motoring, perhaps a bit more. It has rudder sensitivity adjustment but that doesn't help much. I've been thinking of upgrading to a Simrad but I'd hate to spend the dollars and find that it performs the same as my Autohelm. I occurrs to me I don't really have any knowledge as to what to expect from an autopilot. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

As far as I know, Simrad is no longer making their Wheel Pilot line of AP's if that is what you're considering. They had brought out a new model, the WP32 and apparently even that has been nixed. I just asked a Simrad guy at the Naptown boat show what the story is, and he said that Simrad is consolidating manufacturing plants and no longer has space to build the WP's. He agreed with me that they sold a fair number of the WP's. Go figure? I just happen to need a new belt for my WP-30 and he was able to give me a couple of leads on that. their west coast office is out of them at present. (On the whole, this all doesn't sound very promising does it?)


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## cruisingdream (Feb 7, 2007)

*Raymarine*

I have a simrad wheel pilot about 4 years old.
Last year the belt broke, called simrad they said they don't support that unit anymore and did not have replacement belts. after about a week of searching on the internet I finally found them & bought a new one and a spare.
3 weeks ago hit the tack button & started going in circles got it to stop but now only wants to track south. So if simrad doesn't support wheel pilots where do you send it to to get repaired.
I should have gotten the Raymarine version the extra hundred bucks would have been well worth it (I also replaces my instruments this past year ... with Raymarine so if they have a problem 4 years from now I can get them serviced)


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## cruisingdream (Feb 7, 2007)

Sailormitch I have a couple of extra belts (got 4) and if I can't fix my wp they are no use to me


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I have a below deck linear drive unit. Does Simead make a below deck model? The more I think about it I'm veering off course by a good bit more than 10 degrees. It's enough to make me look up and wonder if it will come back. I really need to measure the variance.


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

cruisingdream said:


> Sailormitch I have a couple of extra belts (got 4) and if I can't fix my wp they are no use to me


Thanks -- I may take you up on that! But call Simrad back about repairing the unit. When I called last week about the belt the guy told me they had several units there waiting for their supply of belts to come in, so I gather they at least will replace belts. Might be worth a check to see if they will repair the electronics in yours. And if not and you're ready to junk the unit anyway, them PM me about the belts.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

TE...you can get a Simrad under deck with hydraulic driven piston arm. Your boat need something substanial like that. You will see a world of difference in performance. Youalready know it is not cheap to do this so it is really a question of how badly you need the better performance.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Is it just veering off in one direction but seems to be steering pretty straight ? might only need calibration.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Cam,
Thanks. I'm in the process of getting an estimate so I'll soon know what the better performance will cost me. I don't have a lot of faith with my current unit and spend a lot of time just watching it cycle back and forth. I want a unit that I would be comfortable ducking down below to get a beer for a minute without wondering where we're going now. Perhaps my Autohelm 6000 was underdesigned for the boat from day one.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

capttb,
It veers to both sides of my course and by varying amounts. I've tried adjusting the rudder control but it does not help. It always comes back to course but I'm going in an "S" pattern. In flat water it does just fine. I've not used it much under sail but then you have the variable of sail trim which I know will be a factor anyway. Looking at Cams comment it may be that 30,000 lbs of boat is too much for a linear drive.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Had a wise man tell me they all steer in an "S", trick is getting smallest one possible. Looking at the specs on the Raymarine site they have a wide range for the mechanical drives from 22,000 to 44,000 lbs. displacement, if yours is a little undersized I wonder if a larger one from Ray might be compatible with the AH stuff. With luck maybe you can upgrade what you got cheaper than replacing everything.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

capttb,
That's a good thought. I'm wondering how much the newer computers/brains have to do with better performance in addition to a beefier drive unit.


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## Slooptattoo (Aug 4, 2007)

Check with your manual. If you don't have one, they are available online, just google it up. Go through your set up and adjustments for rudder and sea state. It sounds as if your unit is out of "tune" for the sea state and rudder feedback settings while under power. At cruise speed under power is your boat normally easy or hard to steer. If it is normally easy, you should be able to tune out your "s" turns. Try going through the book before throwing the baby out with the bath water. A friend of mine has the same unit on a Benateau 51 as a backup autopilot and it steers fine under power with cable steering as primary. Good luck.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

We've got a WP5000. 20 years old. It's always worked quite nicely , holds it's course pretty well, no major esses BUT, the belt constantly slips on the wheel. Absolute pain in the arse and nothing I do seems to fix it. It's not simply tension, oh no that would be too easy wouldn't it ? It appears to be that the wheel itself has simply worn smooth. I've had absolutely no luck in finding a replacement.
Boat builder I was talking to said to scrap it and get an underdeck model. His opinion being that today the new underdeck models far outperform the old underdeck while he considered the above deck models to be not much better than junk.
If we do have to replace the WP5000 I'd definitely go underdeck but given that the WP has given 20 years service I'm not all that unhappy with it.
Having to disconnect the thing and pack it away below deck after use is the biggest drawback.


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## kmclarke (Aug 19, 2006)

I have an auto 6000. It goes to standby without warning or reason. It will hold a course when the sails are trimmed well or motoring in calm seas, but when the sea state increases the system goes to standby with no warning. A very undesireable trait. I had to hand steer for 5 hrs at the end of a six hr watch, not too difficult but a situation that could lead to some bad decisions due to fatigue, unfortunatly I only have experience with autopilots that worked well ,and I never took any notice of them. So I too would be interested in hearing opinions on units that work well, This one does not.
My boat is 30000 lbs .


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## Jotun (May 4, 2006)

I have, I think, a Raymarine 3000+. It seems to hold a course for a minute or so but then suddenly wanders way off course for no apparent reason. Anyone know anything about this? Does it matter where or in what direction the compass part is mounted?


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Shiva has an Alpha 3000 which is not linked to GPS and has to be BOTH mechanically engaged and electronically turned on and a course set. It can't go to "stand by"... whatever that is. If mechanically engaged and the unit is turned off, the helm is "locked" usually for dead ahead. If it is disengaged mechanically using the heading dial on the control head does nothing.

The mechanical engagement means that when NOT engaged there is no friction or drag on the helm. When anchoring with the auto pilot or picking up a mooring. I usually set the course to the location and as the boat is moving straight, turn the pilot off but leave it engaged. This locks the helm and keeps it going straight (at the mooring).

This is a simple and reliable and low drain pilot which has been at it for more than 18 years and tens of thousands of miles. I can recommend Alpha.

jef
sv shiva


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I've got Autohelm ST6000 as well and for the past 4 seasons, have been very pleased with the performance. It was installed by the PO in '97 for 2-station hydraulic steering - would this make a difference?


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## gc1111 (May 13, 2004)

camaraderie said:


> TE...you can get a Simrad under deck with hydraulic driven piston arm. Your boat need something substanial like that. You will see a world of difference in performance. Youalready know it is not cheap to do this so it is really a question of how badly you need the better performance.


I have this unit. The reliability has been poor. It has needed rebuilding twice.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

It took me all the way to the southern caribe and then some with no problems. I have faith in it.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

The time to change it out is; When you can no longer trust it!!


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

TrueBlue said:


> I've got Autohelm ST6000 as well and for the past 4 seasons, have been very pleased with the performance. It was installed by the PO in '97 for 2-station hydraulic steering - would this make a difference?


Our's is a Raymarine ST6000+
Very happy with it, (Although we did have to send it in for repair last year; support from Raymarine was great.) we have had it track 85 miles while sailing on one leg and never got more than a .03NM XTE. Works very nice when communicating with the Raymarine Chertplotter.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Boasun,
I think you're right. I don't trust it so it's time to save my pennies and replace it. Will probably be a lot of pennies.


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## jerelull (Jul 7, 2000)

I would first work through the system to eliminate all play, as you're describing how our simpler tiller pilot worked when the mounting bracket got a little loose. A very small amount of play will keep the autopilot from "catching up".


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Have you considered contacting Raymarine about your problem?


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

I've been looking for a Tillerpilot for Oh Joy. She displaces 16,000 so there's only one available for the job that I've found by Raymarine. The Simrad unit was discontinued.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The drive is tight, I have checked that. Also I have not contacted Raymarine, I'm not sure they service Autohelm. I believe the unit is just tired from about 15 years of service and I don't want to put money into a dead horse. I'm strongly leaning towards the Simrad AP26. I just need to see what it will set me back installed. Thanks all for the help.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

You really need to do your homework on this. Autohelm products were built by Raytheon, which became too large to handle the marine division, and Raymarine grew from that. I consider the linear drive far superior to the hydraulic drive and expect that your problems are in your controls, not the drive unit. Or perhaps your drive is undersized for your boat. This has nothing to do with the control unit.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sandy,
Thanks. I am aware of the history of Autohelm/Raymarine. I also think it is quite possible my unit is undersized for a 30,000 lb boat. That being said, I'm curious why you think a linear drive is superior to a hydraulic drive? I'm thinking it is the other way around.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Sandy...if linear screw drive is superior why do big boats all have hydraulic??
I blew through 2 linear drives and have had no problems with my hydraulic and that seems to be the opinion over at SSCA as well.


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## mlahrkamp (Oct 16, 2007)

We've had the ST6000+ for several years and it has performed well. We did experience random failures and 'S' turns a number of months ago. Went through the manual and followed the setup proceedure - not much luck. Turned out that since our boat was in salt water, some of the wire connections started to corrode - they're simply spring loaded connections on the controller unit. Cutting back any place that there was exposed wire solved some problems. The autopilot also hunts something awful if the rudder position sensor is NS. Make sure that's working. The flux compass location is important as well since if it's swinging is too great, it'll also cause 'S' turns. Lastly, the autopilot disconnecting is an indication that the unit is operating outside it's parameters: too great a compass change, inaccurate rudder position or too great a load on the servo will all cause the autopilot to disconnect. Basically, it disconnects when the various inputs no longer agree. Ours does beep when it drops off. And it's behaving flawlessly again now.

Lastly, I'd not chuck it just yet. There's a number of things to be checked first. Also, there's always the devil you know as opposed to the devil you might install as a replacement. 

Cheers,
Mike


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

*Simrad Problems*

Hi!

I think I know what is wrong with your Simrad autopilot. On my Simrad, the buttons stick. That is the rubber button sticks against the plastic housing. Try wiggling it. The reason that it is confused is that it thinks you are trying to tack it continuously. I had a similar problem, however , my port arrow button was sticking.

Worth a try...


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## tkohrs (Dec 28, 2005)

One thing you might look at which would be considerably cheaper than a whole new system would be to add a gyro to your Autohelm (Raymarine). My guess is that you have just a flux gate compass for determining the heading now. A compass is damped sufficiently that in a chop the boat can get quite away around before the pilot will bring it back. The gyro will respond faster.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Ml,
I think the ST6000 is the newer Raymarine unit. Mine is an Autohelm 6000 which I believe is much older. At any rate it does not really disconnect but rather hunts excessively. I'll have a look at the rudder sensor tomorrow, that's a good thought.
Dj,
My problem is with an Autohelm unit, not a Simrad.


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## gc1111 (May 13, 2004)

I am not impressed with Simrad. Their customer service is poor. The reliability of the hydralic drive is poor. The local dealer agrees with me that it should not be failing so soon, but cannot persuade the manufacturer to do anything about it. Their electronics seem satisfactory (after I fixed some installation problems - one of which was a fresh water pump on the other side of a bulkhead from the fluxgate. When it kicked on the boat would go 45 degrees off course.). but the hydraulic drive unit has been a disaster.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

tk,
I do have a fluxgate compass. Can a gyro be retrofitted and do you know of experience with one. I'm not familiar with that type of installation.


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## sailpilot253 (Oct 17, 2007)

*autohelm 6000*

We've used this autopilot extensively for 8 years. It's a reliable, low draw unit. Our only problem with wandering was when the rudder position sensor was diconnected. Otherwise, I'd buy again. (22,000 lb.)
Bob


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## sailpilot253 (Oct 17, 2007)

*linear versus hydraulic drives*

Camraderie,
Big boats have hydraulic drives because many already have accessories that are hydraulic. (bow thrusters, windlasses, steering). Since they already have a source for hydraulic pressure, the very reliable hydraulic drive makes sense. On smaller boats where no such source exists, it would be very expensive to install a hydraulic pressure source just to power an autopilot. The linear drives have become very good, and while the hydraulic system is probably somewhat superior, the additional cost can't be justified.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

SP253...perhaps you misunderstood...linear hydraulic drives are quite affordable and frequently used on underdeck autopilots on cruising sailboats and require NO other part of the boat to be hydraulic. See the picture above. 
What I was comparing those to is SCREW type linear mechanisms which are not found on larger, more capable drives because they are inadequate to the task.
Here is an example of a screw type linear drive like you should have. See post #7 for an example of linear hydraulic...and welcome by the way!


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## kjsailingSpring (Nov 8, 2005)

*Anyone's autopilot excessively loud?*

I have an autohelm ST4000 and it is incredibly loud when engaged. Is this normal? The noise comes fromt he mechanism turning the wheel and since I sail mainly in choppy seas, it is always readjusting itself and making noise. Normal?

Thanks for any input -

KJ


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

KJ,
I get no noise at all from my pilot. That does not sound like a good thing and I would have it checked.


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## OI41PourquoiPas (Jul 12, 2007)

I can tell you from first-hand experience that Simrad is the worst company I have ever dealt with for customer support. They are actually the successor company to Autohelm. I had an Autohelm hydraulic (I believe it was an 8000) that actually had less than 100 hours of use. I don't remember exactly how long I had had it but it could not have been more than six or seven years old. The pump, motor and gyro were all working but the board had failed. When I went to Simrad for a replacement board they were not at all helpful. They said they were not repairing the board and they no longer offered replacements. They left me with the sole choice of buying a complete new system at several thousand dollars. They told me that since I had gotten so little use out of their product they would offer me a discount on a complete new system since the parts were not interchangeable. When they told me what they would sell it to me for I went to Defender Marine to compare prices. Their "compensation" price was actually higher than I could have bought it for from Defender. Some customer service! I decided I would never again buy one of their products and I went to Ray Marine which the installing tech told me actually gave less problems than the Simrad. In many years of dealing with manufacturers of marine equipment Simrad stand out as the most arrogant, indifferent company I have ever dealt with.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

OI41,
Thanks for that input, it has me re-thinking things.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Well you can go with anecdotes or with the industry:
http://www.simrad-yachting.com/About-us/News/Simrad-Garners-Awards/

BTW...they are NOT the successor to Autohelm...Raymarine is:
http://www.raymarine.com/Default.aspx?site=1&section=1&page=969
so I guess they must have been building stuff for Autohelm ??? Anyone know for sure???

If you want Raymarine support anecdotes try here: http://ssca.org/DiscBoard/viewtopic...0&postorder=asc&highlight=auto+pilot&start=15

The WH autopilots seem to be dated looking and "klunky" but recieve high marks for reliability if you want a different choice:
http://www.whautopilots.com/products/index.html


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## GeminiDaze (Jan 26, 2007)

Autopilots only make adjustments based on other equipment, i.e. compass, rudder angle indicator, charplotter, etc. You have three major adjustments that need to be calibrated to give you more directional stability. Rudder angle, dampening and (damn hate it when my mind goes blank but it is rate the rudder is turned). 

Go back to your books and see what affects each has and try making the adjustments so it works a little smoother. Another thing that you need to do if you are always going off in the same direction is compensate the compass. Most systems autocompensate if you turn a slow lazy 2 minute turn through 360 degrees. Sometimes it takes more than one. Also look by your autocompass and make sure you haven't left any electrical, electronic or metal objects near it. That will always throw you off.

Example. I have a Raymarine system on my 2002 Jeanneau 43 DS. When I bought it last November, all the elecectronics and instruments were so out of calibration that nothing was correct. Previous owner didn't have it out of the slip in 2 years. I took everything back to factory setting and started from scratch.

Traveling North from San Diego to the Columbia river the Autopilot never failed and only veered off by roughly 3 degrees each direction and that was because we were in gale and strong gale force winds so the waves were the actual culprit.

Good Luck.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Cam,
I'm still planning on going with the Simrad unit. I'm looking at the AP26 with an ARP75 AccuSteer pump unit and a HLDX Ram. May be a bit of overkill but if I'm going to spend the money I may as well do it right.


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## GeminiDaze (Jan 26, 2007)

Well, you better take a look at NavMan.... I installed one on my Cascade 42 with hydralic steering and it worked as well as the Raymarine I have on my Jeanneau. Price is right and service has been good.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Gemini...just took a look...they look pretty good. I know the company from GPS. How long have they been making autopilots? Looks like an Aussie company...Wombat & others...any comments?


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> Well you can go with anecdotes or with the industry:


When the plastic clip on my Navico/Simrad autopilot broke last year, the service department sent me a free one, no charge, no hassle.....


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## davedl (Mar 14, 2001)

Teshannon,
I also have an autohelm 6000, close to 10 years old, on my 40', 20,000 # Jeanneau, and it behaves beautifully. No wandering unless waves are pretty big. As I remember, there is another adjustment besides rudder sensitivity, perhaps a damping adjustment or something like that. My manual isn't available now, but there should be some information available. Perhaps (gasp!) talk with Raymarine. A stinkpot friend had a similar problem but he eventually solved it. So don't give up - you probably have an excellent autopilot that just needs to be set up right.
DDL


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## speciald (Mar 27, 2007)

I have broken 4 Edson armatures on my hydraulic Raymarine autopilot. I'm not sure whether the problem was the installation (steering beyond the rudder stop) or the strength of the hydraulic ram but I have reduced the steerage angle to avoid hitting the rudder stops and have installed an Edson "mark 2" armature that has been "beefed-up". Wish me luck on my trip to Tortloa. I will carry a spare armature. Also be sure to blow th carbon out of the brush ports as it will build up and stop the hydraulic pump.


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