# Catalina 30', How seaworthy?



## chriscross80 (Oct 30, 2012)

So I found this website...

www.sailpanache.com

This young guy takes a 1976 Catalina 30 and sails it alone thousands of miles clear across the Pacific Ocean. This is his videos...

www.youtube.com/user/ZacharySOLough

Just curious if a Catalina 30 would be a good choice for setting sail from California to Hawaii, and then heading to the South Pacific.


----------



## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

Catalina 30 is reasonable. Hawaii not so much. Head down thru Mexico, Galapagos, Marquesas, Tahiti, Cook Islands .... Yada yada .... To the Philippines. Do it now. Easy! You will see Hawaii when you fly home to see mom. It is out of the way. I'm in Honolulu today.....waiting for a flight to Micronesia.


----------



## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Well as it has been said here before a thousand times, you can cross an ocean in a kayak, but do you really want to. Not the ideal boat by any measure, but hey Remus is drifting across the Pacific in an even smaller boat, and does not know how to sail and seems to not be able to learn. So anything is possible, but not the smartest way to do it. I tend to think coastal cruising boats like the Catalina 30 can do some offshore jumps, I would not want to cruse across oceans in one. Not designed to do it, not strong enough construction (bulkheads, chain plates, rigging, rig) and not nearly enough tankage.


----------



## gptyk (Mar 20, 2013)

I own a Catalina 30. Great boat. Wouldn't cross an ocean in it. This guy ends up with rudder problems (and more) - the boat just isn't built for long-term cruising across oceans.


----------



## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

gptyk said:


> I own a Catalina 30. Great boat. Wouldn't cross an ocean in it. This guy ends up with rudder problems (and more) - the boat just isn't built for long-term cruising across oceans.


...yet here they are in paradise.


----------



## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

gptyk said:


> I own a Catalina 30. Great boat. Wouldn't cross an ocean in it. This guy ends up with rudder problems (and more) - the boat just isn't built for long-term cruising across oceans.


As a former C30 owner, I totally agree. It was built to be a coastal cruiser, not a blue water boat.
I feel the same about my current C34. 
Now, if you want to hop around the Caribbean, go for it. You pretty much are never more than a day or two from land. Crossing oceans...no way.


----------



## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

aloof said:


> ...yet here they are in paradise.


"Man who say something can not be done, should not interfere with man doing it." Old Chinese Proverb.


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

You can hammer in a nail using a screwdriver or a pair of vise grips. I wouldn't try to build a house this way, though.

If one insists on using a coastal cruiser for blue water passages, I would at least do research on the boat's weak points and attempt to correct the deficiencies.
I think that many of these boats can be built up to be much safer for little money and a lot of sweat.

In the end though, no boat can protect you from your own stupidity or something nasty and unexpected from Mother Nature.


----------



## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

The C30 can take alot, but there's a difference between storms and survival storms. Read the article at this link and you'll begin to understand the difference. In short, the question is whether the boat will have a chance of surviving a complete rollover, if it should happen. When you're at sea, you can't rely on anyone to come help you if you get in trouble. You can only rely on your own survival and sailing skills, and your equipment. When their lives depend on it, most experienced long distance sailors want a boat that can withstand the worst case scenario. If you can't rely on your equipment, then all you have left to rely upon is yourself, and that might not be enough.

https://www.morganscloud.com/2013/06/01/survival-storms/


----------



## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

In 2008 a poorly maintained Catalina 30 drifted from Dana Point California to Hawaii after the novice sailor went MIA going to San Diego.
O.C. boat found off Hawaii - latimes
People on a sailboat in a gale "come apart" long before a halfway decent boat will be in any real peril.


----------



## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Sailormon6 said:


> The C30 can take alot, but there's a difference between storms and survival storms. Read the article at this link and you'll begin to understand the difference. In short, the question is whether the boat will have a chance of surviving a complete rollover, if it should happen. When you're at sea, you can't rely on anyone to come help you if you get in trouble. You can only rely on your own survival and sailing skills, and your equipment. When their lives depend on it, most experienced long distance sailors want a boat that can withstand the worst case scenario. If you can't rely on your equipment, then all you have left to rely upon is yourself, and that might not be enough.
> 
> https://www.morganscloud.com/2013/06/01/survival-storms/


Didn't take a "survival storm" to prevent this Catalina 36 from making it more than 200 miles into a planned voyage from LA to Hawaii... The "greybeards" produced by 25 knots of wind were sufficient to make life aboard that boat pretty miserable 



> Log notes say "rough and lumpy, everything wet."
> 
> Everything means just that, everything. Cushions, sleeping bags, navigation station, radios, GPS, log notes. Except for the aft cabin, there was not a dry spot in the house. Surprisingly, zip-lock bags, even when securely sealed, can accumulate copious amounts of water. Cans rust rapidly and all our clothing was soaked...
> 
> ...


There's a reason why things like the Bomar hatches on Catalinas of that size are not rated by their manufacturer for offshore service... Shouldn't require the IQ of a rocket scientist to figure out why that is, or what it might indicate about the boat's suitability for offshore sailing...


----------



## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

Bad stuff happens out there....not just to Catalinas. Be careful.




































Catalina 30 MKIII and Catalina 36 MKII both carry CE A or Ocean Ratings. However, various boats (brands) with the same rating can differ quite a bit in ruggedness, capabilities, and price. Old boats with problems known or not yet discovered can negate any value that the rating implies. And crews often cause their own problems. If you have a leaky boat when you depart, don't be surprised when it leaks after the weather kicks up. I suspect that Jon's 36 post above was an older boat, and also, possibly the 30 that the OP is referencing might be an older model. Builders (including Catalina) make improvements in their boats as experience is gained and technology improves. Boat versions older than above may or may not carry different (less) ratings.


----------



## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

I think that story speaks more to the folly of going to sea in a 17 year old (1984) boat that is inadequately prepared than it does about the fundamental soundness of Catalinas. I wouldn't go to sea in an old, poorly prepared Allied, or Cabo Rico or Hallberg Rassy either. It seems clear to me that the Catalina 36 in question desperately needed its portlights and other fittings repaired and rebedded.

The Lewmar hatches on my boat leaked when I bought it, but I repaired them, and they don't leak anymore. The fixed portlights on my boat leaked when I bought the boat, but I replaced them, and they don't leak anymore.

A clue to the owner's thought processes with regard to boat maintenance and his preparation to go to sea can be gleaned from his statement that: "As one of the many preparations prior to departure, our sailmaker installed two additional reefing points as well as reinforcement at critical points of the standard Catalina mainsail." So, he had his sailmaker add 2 reef points and reinforce his original, 17 year old, Catalina sails, prior to his planned Pacific crossing. 

I read the account and didn't see any indication that the Bomar hatch failed, or that the boat experienced any significant structural failure for that matter. I don't regard the Catalina as the epitome of yacht design and construction, but it's hardly fair to hold the designer and builder responsible for the owner's failure to maintain it.


----------



## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Thank goodness Gerry Douglas installed Lewmar Ocean Series hatches as standard equipment on my lowly C34 otherwise I'd be afraid to leave the dock! Monitor is pretty much the gold standard for self steering and I wouldn't blame its failure on it being bolted to a Catalina transom. I don't understand the comment regarding the aft bulkhead on the C36. It is designed to be removed so you can service the steering gear so I'm not sure why someone would bolt steering gear to it. Again, Edson is pretty reputable and why it would break because its bolted to a Catalina is beyond me.

Not to say I would recommend sailing a C30 to the South Pacific (very small tankage amongst other reasons). But a C309 "Southernaire" has done two Single Handed Transpacs. And I think he also sailed the boat back to California both times after only a couple week layover. Look it up on the C30 or SSS websites and contact the owner if you are really serious about doing it.


----------



## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

A Capri 25 (no 2 actually) just this last year 2014 raced in the Single handed transpac this past year... that doesn't make it bluewater capable.


----------



## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

So if I understand you correctly, Based on the experience of these two Capris plus the two that have done the crewed Transpac and the other one that went to Hawaii from LA, and despite the fact that Catalina markets the Capri 25 as a trailersailer lake and Bay racer, that Catalina’s build quality and design margins are such that one can take these boats across oceans? That makes a heck of a lot more sense than using the misfortune of one hapless sailor to condemn an entire class of boats (Catalina’s Ocean Series). 

In all seriousness, the OP should seek out the people who have real experience and have done this and not rely on comments from those who have never done it before.


----------



## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

> A Capri 25 (no 2 actually) just this last year 2014 raced in the Single handed transpac this past year... that doesn't make it bluewater capable.


Actually, doing a Transpac defines the sailor as being "bluewater capable" around here so I don't see why it wouldn't apply to the boat as well. If George or I had blogs nobody would read them, "I Sailed A Catalina Offshore in a Gale and NOTHING bad Happened !!".


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

From my experience with a Catalina 30-Tall, it handled very well in Chesapeake Bay, but an ocean going boat it ain't! Way too light, didn't like a following sea at all, especially when the waves got to about 10 feet. 

All the best,

Gary


----------



## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Sailormon6 said:


> I think that story speaks more to the folly of going to sea in a 17 year old (1984) boat that is inadequately prepared than it does about the fundamental soundness of Catalinas.


The boat that was referenced in the OP is a C30 built in 1976... That's why I thought my link might have some relevance to the OP's query about its likely "seaworthiness"...



GeorgeB said:


> That makes a heck of a lot more sense than using the misfortune of one hapless sailor to condemn an entire class of boats (Catalina's Ocean Series).


Perhaps I've missed it, but I haven't seen anyone "condemning" either the Catalina 385, or 445, or other Ocean Series models... 



GeorgeB said:


> In all seriousness, the OP should seek out the people who have real experience and have done this and not rely on comments from those who have never done it before.


Perhaps one of these days, I'll learn to refrain from responding to these sorts of threads, based on such absurdly open-ended questions, but I wouldn't count on it  So, let me try again:



> Catalina 30', How seaworthy?


_It Depends..._

Upon unknown a host of variables such as age, condition, and yes - the ability and resolve of the person sailing her... Not to mention, your own personal notion of "seaworthiness" 



> Just curious if a Catalina 30 would be a good choice for setting sail from California to Hawaii, and then heading to the South Pacific.


Once again, _It Depends..._ Chances are you could find better 'choices'...

Bottom line is, if you have to ask the question, my answer is "Probably not"... 

Sailors like Dave Martin, or Matt Rutherford, didn't ask strangers on a sailing forum whether a Cal 25 was a sufficiently seaworthy for a circumnavigation, or if a beater Albin Vega was a good choice for a circumnavigation of N & S America via the NW Passage. They had the knowledge, confidence, and experience to select and prep their respective boats, and _JUST DO IT_...

Sorry, but if you lack those attributes to make such a decision on your own, chances are a vintage C30 may not be a "good choice" _FOR YOU_...

Now, for Webb Chiles, on the other hand...

;-)


----------



## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

SHNOOL said:


> A Capri 25 (no 2 actually) just this last year 2014 raced in the Single handed transpac this past year... that doesn't make it bluewater capable.


So it/they sunk during the race?

Because, if they didn't sink, and did make it, wouldn't that make them "blue water capable".

Or if I drive to Los Angles from New York in my 69 Galaxie, and make it, is it not cross country capable just because someone didn't think it would make it?

I could understand saying it was marginally blue water capable, or not recommended for blue water, or not Force 10 storm capable, but how do you say it's not blue water capable when it was blue water capable?


----------



## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

One bailed out at the start... 
The Other finished the race with a broken spreader and a jury rig (helluva boat - and great sailor, and you can read about it in the Catalina Mainsheet Magazine Fall, 2014)...

For the record a Catalina Capri 30 also raced and completed it.

The amount of upgrades to the boat to make it capable of competing (both safety requirements, and upgrades), would, in my opinion, classify it as a slightly different boat than original... Example, a full bulkhead with compression post, as well as upgraded keelson, and glassing around the hull below the compression post, and above... make it a different boat (smart upgrades though).

You know what this reminds me of.. These people who like to sell their home bred dogs from "Champion bloodlines," that are from mothers and fathers that have never seen the show ring... 10 generations back a dog was in the showring and got a title.. 

So using that logic, if my great grandfather was a millionaire (and didnt' leave it when he left this earth), does that make me "from a rich family?"


----------



## Tenoch (Sep 28, 2012)

There was a Catalina 27 that circumnavated. Can it be done? Of course it can. But I look at it this way...I would rather have a boat that is strong and capable enough to help to make up for MY shortcomings rather than me have to make up for the boats shortcomings with my superior seamanship (and a butt-load of luck). I don't believe in luck, and I'm an average sailor at best.


----------



## svzephyr44 (Jun 26, 2000)

Having owned a Catalina 30 and currently cruising on a Catalina 42 I personally would not take a Catalina 30 into the open ocean for long transits. However, don't fall into the trap of a "seaworthy cruising boat." Open ocean cruising puts a lot of strain on a boat. I would rather be in a 2015 Catalina 30 then a 1980 Island Packet that has seen 50,000 NM of cruising. Yes, you can replace the standing rigging. You can tighten the keel bolts, etc. But every connection on the IP (e.g. hull to rudder tube, hull to keel, deck to hull) has been stressed thousands of times. It's not fun when the keel falls off (as has happened to a couple of acquaintances with old boats) in the middle of the ocean.

Fair winds and following seas


----------



## alanr77 (Jul 24, 2009)

These threads are always fun aren't they? I think the number one spot for reoccurring threads has got to be taking a production boat offshore or not. Some would have you believe that a Catalina 30 will fall apart the minute you lose sight of land. Some of the sailors commenting on these boats within the different threads wouldn't feel safe going out of sight of land in anything less than a cruise ship it would seem. Someone on here once said something I consider very wise: "Sailors often rate a boats seaworthiness based on their own perceived comfort level." Example: "when we crossed the gulf in my friends C-30, the pounding of the waves on the bow really made me uncomfortable-" followed by" I wouldn't take a C-30 out of sight of land ever" Someone asked- "did the boat make it to port in one piece?" "yes".......

Is the C-30 built like a tank? No. But then neither are 90% of the boats sailing out there. If anyone took the time to read the blog, Panache CRACKED her rudder after coming loose from her mooring and landing on a reef. It was repaired locally with glass and the boat went on it's way. Most boats would have suffered some damage in that situation. It should also be noted that Panache spent her life cruising the South Pacific. If you look at the boat, it's basically stock. It's not what I would consider well maintained or well equipped. Yet, he traveled to places many armchair sailors will never see. 

Everybody always rates boats as if they go looking for hurricanes. Yet, 98% of the time, most users are not going on passages longer than 5 days or so. That will get you to all kinds of places. Survival storms are rare. If you don't have a Swan 70 and find yourself with a WELL MAINTAINED C-30, should you stay in the bay because of what someone else who has never been on your boat says? If I remember correctly, this coastal/bluewater thing is fairly modern. Many of the boats we consider classic world cruisers (speaking in the below 35' class) were built before people worried about that kind of stuff. They made sure their boat was safe and went. 

Catalina's are all over the place. They have been sailed everywhere. Would I choose one if I was going into the Southern Ocean? No. Wrong tool for the job. Would I take a well outfitted and maintained C-30 to ________ within a week or so sail? Absolutely. I am confident in my skills as a skipper so as to ensure the best chance of getting there safely. 

That Catalina 30 MKII that was rated category A has the same hull mold as the older C-30. Over time an open transom was added because it was trendy and it's what people wanted. 

It seems when people discuss some of these older production boats, they talk like the boat is still sitting unmodified and factory equipped after 20 years. 

Now, there are some weaknesses in the C-30 as it sits. Some can be changed, some cannot.

Cannot- The bilge is shallow. You will get water over the floorboards if you're shipping water. There are small workarounds but it is what it is.

Cannot- Unprotected spade rudder. Many many many boats run around like this. Is it weaker than a skeg hung or modified full keel? Yes

Cannot- Externally attached keel. Again, very common. Maintain your keel bolts and you likely won't have a problem. To everyone who says this should prevent a C-30 from traveling offshore, I ask you to show me a Catalina 30 that lost its keel. I'm not talking about the smile. I'm talking about lost its keel.

Can fix- No bridge deck. Build one. It's easy with basic fiberglass skills.

Can fix- Cockpit drains too small. Install bigger ones through the transom. Easy to do and looks professional. 

Can fix- Large companionway opening- install locks on your drop boards and when in weather, sail with them in.

Can fix- Bulkheads secured with screws. I agree, this is a bigger fix. And I know because I've done it. Through bolt them, epoxy them in and then tab the other side with multiple layers or glass cloth. Mine aren't coming loose and my shower ans hanging locker is sealed to boot. 

Can fix- Cabinets are secured with screws. Bolt them down. Add angle brackets where needed. This applies to everything in the boat. If you're upside down, will it fall?

Can fix- Tankage. The C-30 does not make a good cruising boat for 4 people. A couple or solo and it's fine. I have internal space for 70 gallons of water and 35 gallons of fuel. Add a watermaker and sail more and this isn't even close to an issue. And this isn't even counting external stores.

Can fix- Seaberth. The starboard side settee is exactly 19 1/2" wide by 77" long. Add a lee cloth and done. 

Can fix- Chainplates. The initial C-30's had issues with the aft lower chainplates. This has been corrected. My boat has tabbed in bulkheads that the aft lower shrouds connect to. The rig is plenty strong for the size of the boat if properly maintained. If anything, its a very good setup. Fore/aft stay, two sets of lower stays and center upper stays. All attached to their own chainplate and bulkhead. Fore, aft and upper stays are 1/4", lowers are one size smaller. Whats wrong with this??? Compared to a Pearson Triton I'd say the C-30 measures up when discussing the rig. 

Displacement- I don't understand why everyone calls the C-30 a light displacement boat. It is not a light displacement boat. 29'3" with a dry weight of 10,200 dry with a ballast of 4250. May boats considered safe offshore weigh less and have less ballast. Anyone who has actually sailed a C-30 will tell you they are very stiff boats. They have a high initial stability due to hull shape and beam, combined with a fairly heavy ballast weight and you have a stable boat. It rates under 2 for capsize. 

Am I saying that a C-30 is a dedicated blue water cruiser that anyone can sail to Japan from Florida? Not at all. I just think that many people don't give the boat enough credit for what it can do. A competent skipper can take a C-30 near anywhere, as they could any WELL MAINTAINED and thoughtfully upgraded larger Catalina. If you know YOUR boat, and you know what YOU are doing, YOU will be able to answer the question of whether or not YOU should take YOUR Catalina 30 offshore or not. Find me a comfortable 30' boat in a large seaway. It's a 30' foot boat. It's gonna be rough. If your hatches leak, its because YOU didn't seal or maintain them. Rarely does new gear catastrophically fail if used in its designed limits. Old worn out gear is always a mystery. Just because it says Tartan on the side does not make it a better or more trustworthy boat by itself. 

I have restored a few smaller Catalina's and have sailed them in places you shouldn't take smaller Catalina's. I got caught in my first storm not to many years ago. And that was my fault. My C-30 has been upgraded to address the issues that I know of. And no, I could not buy a dedicated "bluewater" boat for what I've spent. Is my C-30 as strong and as well designed as a Swan? No. But it was never meant to be. Though Frank Butler himself has said that the boat was designed as a cruising boat. He didn't say, "only within sight of land" I know what my intended usage is, what my limits are and the limits of my boat. I have taken the necessary precautions and would trust my boat near anywhere. A ratty, unmaintained or worn out boat can fail you no matter what name is on the build sheet. 

A long time ago I asked the same question in the form of are the older, accepted small cruising boats really better. After a few years worth of sailing on the different boats- a Catalina 30 suited me just fine. 

So to end my built up from years of people bashing production boats rant, a properly maintained Catalina 30 is seaworthy enough to take you anywhere you feel your seamanship skills can safely carry you. If my boat ever fails because of something Frank Butler did I'll be sure to let you know.


----------



## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

aloof said:


> Catalina 30 is reasonable. Hawaii not so much. Head down thru Mexico, Galapagos, Marquesas, Tahiti, Cook Islands .... Yada yada .... To the Philippines. Do it now. Easy! You will see Hawaii when you fly home to see mom. It is out of the way. I'm in Honolulu today.....waiting for a flight to Micronesia.


If an 'old lady in a bath tub' can make it to Hawaii, then why not a Cat 30? A couple of blind guys have sailed to Hawaii! It is absolutely the safest 2000 miles ocean crossing I can imagine.
Drop your GPS over the side or lose power? No problem! There's a jet flying overhead every 20 minutes, headed for Honolulu. Lose your mast? Sooner or later you will drift up on one of the Hawaiian Islands, or get close enough to swim. And best of all, no passport needed if you are an American! But bring LOTS of money, Mexico it ain't. LOL


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I owned a C27. A friend at the same marina owned a C30. Catalina's website lists the 30 mkIII as Cat-A rated:

Yachts and boats for sale - Catalina Yachts

So these newer 30's can do it according to Catalina. I don't know about the older models. But no way would I have taken my C27 on a long passage - though it was done by Childress. Of course, Catalina rates it as Cat-B. So they agree.


----------



## alanr77 (Jul 24, 2009)

Yes they are rated for it. Many of the larger older cats would have been too if cat cared about that back then. The 30 is not a lightweight day sailor. It's pretty substantial for 30'. They will handle some wind and wave properly controlled with attention to sail trim. If you told people in 1978 not to take their new c-30 to Hawaii they would laugh at the person saying it. A while back I asked the same questions about a seaworthy boat. Then I went and sailed on a bunch of different boats under 35. From Tartan 34C down to Tritons. Yes they track better. But the Catalina is just as heavy, has lasted just as long and was both faster and more maneuverable. If I had been used to sailing Caliber 40's, the Cat would have felt rough. But that would've been true for virtually any 30' and below. The boat can take it. I don't apologize for my Catalina. I'm proud to own it. I've built it into what I wanted. People can sit around and critique it's quality all they want. I'll be at the same beach bar they will be at. And I didn't have to sell my house and cars to have the title for it. To emphasize: It is not a purpose built, heavy weather boat. But properly looked after, it will take care of you. BTW, mine will heave too with minimal fore reaching. As a matter of fact, a company that makes sea drouges chose a C-30 to set up their anchors in heavy weather. It's on the net- look for it. People need to spend more time worrying about becoming a better skipper than fretting over coastal vs offshore ect....with experience you'll be able to answer your own questions and decide what you can handle.


----------



## jerryrlitton (Oct 14, 2002)

For those of you who have not read "Sailing a Serious Ocean" by Kretschmer maybe you ahould. I just finished it. It sure makes me question myself and my boat. A lot of features my boat already has, however a few more are needed. So far I am not capable. One day I may be capable. After reading the book I see mostly it is the crew that makes or breaks a successful passage however to have a strong boat is next up on the list, along with some good luck of course.


----------



## alanr77 (Jul 24, 2009)

JL: Agreed. I've read that book as well. JK's books should be on a required reading list for anyone wanting to go offshore. My replies to the op were simply to keep things in perspective. Most of us will not go where JK has taken his boats, delivery or otherwise. I was bored one day sitting in my cockpit and decided to collect many of the posts from the various sites that discuss a Catalina in the open ocean. (Yeah I know....I'm retired so leave me alone ) Then I had one of my non sailing friends read the posts and I asked them what they thought of Catalina boats based on those posts. The impression they got was that you shouldn't take any Catalina outside of a lake. I just wanted to offer another side of the coin from someone who has owned a few Catalina's and have pushed their limits a little bit. 

Thing is, 99.9% of the people asking these questions about a Catalina will never find themselves in the conditions JK has. You can spend a lifetime sailing places without being away from a port or anchorage for more than 5 days. Sailing is a sport with dangers. 

Furthermore, look up the past rosters for Haha races, Bermuda races and such. You will find Catalina's. My point is, the crew and how well prepared the boat is has a lot to do with the success of the passage. Everyone always throws that C-36 that failed to make it to Hawaii a few years ago out when discussing this topic. That's 1 ill prepared boat out of how many that routinely do it? There has been many detailed write ups about that boat and most if not all the failures can be traced back to maintenance. 

The C-27 that circumnavigated was an interesting read. You can find the details in the book, small boats that can take you anywhere, his modifications were not that extreme. Note that he also said he wouldn't do it again. Why? Because there are more comfortable boats out there to do it in. The young have a very different idea of what discomforts can be tolerated. But, the boat made it just fine. 

Heavy displacement full keel or modified full keel boats will track better, they are easier on self steering gear and they seem to require less attention at the helm. But, they are usually slower in lighter winds, wetter and due to a narrow beam, travel at a higher sustained angle of heel. Keep in mind I'm talking about under 35'. I have no experience over that. A C-30 on the other hand, is generally faster and will turn in its own length. It has enough mass that I have not had any issues with the boat stalling while climbing up a swell. I have self steered for hours with nothing more than lines tied to the tiller. I controlled direction using the headsail. It tracked straight enough to do that. I have noticed that due to its hull shape, it will crab from time to time. You notice it with how the waves break on the windward aft side of the hull.


----------



## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

jerryrlitton said:


> For those of you who have not read "Sailing a Serious Ocean" by Kretschmer maybe you ahould. I just finished it. It sure makes me question myself and my boat. A lot of features my boat already has, however a few more are needed. So far I am not capable. One day I may be capable. After reading the book I see mostly it is the crew that makes or breaks a successful passage however to have a strong boat is next up on the list, along with some good luck of course.


Your post made me quite sad.
Take heart, men have been sailing for thousands of years, on some pretty unseaworthy vessels, and most not only survived, they accomplished what they set out to do. It just ain't rocket science.
I'm your opposite number, as a life long seaman. I was confident that my navigation, weather and radio communication skills sort of simplified my slide into flight. You'll be just fine.
The trials and tribulations of those who have written books really should not weigh heavily on your mind. I've done much more heavy weather sailing than most, but I've been sailing since the whole Pacific (or Atlantic) weather forecast was 5 minutes twice a day, on WWV. GPS wasn't even a gleam in some engineer's eye and yarn was the best wind direction gauge available (and still may be?).
Relax and have faith in yourself; it's 90% common sense out there and you haven't survived all those hours flying, by being a dumbass, right?
Ocean sailing, coastal cruising or whatever it is you plan to do, is a whole lot easier and safer than the twice a day commute most people drive each and every day.


----------



## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

We are in Tahiti having just sailed there from Panama. There are about 400 boats crossing the Pacific this year and we 'know' about 150 of them. Of the 150: one sank, one lost its rig, one lost its rudder, one hit a whale and several had significant rig and engine problems. The big, well built keel boats had as many problems or more than the lighter boats and cats! 

We sail a big blue water boat, a Tayana 55, but I would not have problems sailing to New Zealand in a well prepared Catalina 30, especially one prepared like Alanr77's. It is important to remember that 100 days at sea in the 'big blue water' is more sailing than most sailors and their boats do in 10 years in the Bay.

Since we am very conservative in the 55 we would not have to change the way we sail!

We have sailed 30,000+ odd-shore miles in our boat and 60% of the time we could have done it in a Hobie Cat. The 5,000 miles to Tahiti was very benign but then I have been in F8 and F9 gales in sight of the US east coast.

However, that said, getting back from New Zealand in a 30 might be more of a challenge...we plan to come back via Japan and Alaska and high latitude sailing is a different 'kettle of fish' but it still has as much to do with preparation and seamanship as it does the boat.

Phil


----------



## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

I beleive some young uy in California - took his Catalina 27 - beefed it up and has sailed it to South Pacific area, I would guess it has the same issues a 30 would have


----------



## alanr77 (Jul 24, 2009)

Cdy, that's something I've noticed within the Catalina line. The boats are very similar, just bigger. As I have moved up in size, everything looks the same, just more of it. This has made my restorations easier as I haven't had to stand there scratching my head but once. 

One thing I have noticed on every Catalina I've torn apart is that common to all middle class production boats, they didn't spend much money on sealing hardware. My current boat s deck is mostly west system now. The core was not gone, just moist 3" around every fitting. Certain areas were worse than others. Again, easy to fix. Dig it all out then poor slightly thickened west into the enlarged holes until it won't take anymore. All my deck fasterers and hardware now has 1/4" aluminium backing plates with the bolts going through solid epoxy. Bedded with buytle from user Mainesail. This is the kind of stuff that adds to a Catalinas seaworthyness. Dry crew is happy crew. Happy crew make better decisions. Any deck leak is easily repaired now. I did miss another upgrade earlier, mainly because I haven't done it yet. 

On some Catalina's, the smaller ventilation hatches are nothing more than think polycarbonate. Mine is 12" x 18". Ocean rated replacement is about $280. Easy easy easy.


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

cdy said:


> I beleive some young uy in California - took his Catalina 27 - beefed it up and has sailed it to South Pacific area, I would guess it has the same issues a 30 would have


I think you're referring to Ronnie Simpson in a Cal T2 or Cal 27.


----------



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

capta said:


> it's 90% common sense out there


I think you're grossly overestimating the number of people out there who possess "common sense".

Sadly, it's getting to be fewer everyday. (No reflection on JerryLittlton, just general statement)


----------



## alanr77 (Jul 24, 2009)

Bubble: You should have capitalized that entire statement. We all do dumb things but some are more likely to repeat and repeat...Something else I gleaned from the Panache blog; one of the few times he had to deal with really snotty weather was when he had to meet someones time schedule, a mistake he said he would not repeat. Common sense goes a long way towards ensuring the safety of any boat. Lessor boats may require more? But then again, smaller boats have smaller problems. I have read countless stories regarding boat failures and abandonment's. I study them and try to decipher what went wrong and what could be done to prevent it from happening again. Many yachts have been abandoned simply because the crew freaked out. I understand its easy to MM QB, but at the same time, I think this can be related to seaworthiness of a vessel

Fear and confusion are contagious. How many have been on a vessel where one crew member starts to get scared or starts to panic and the next thing you know the "group" starts thinking irrationally. A good Captain can have a lot to do with this outcome. Survival situations require extreme measures in both mental and psychical attributes. Many may be unwilling to do this if they think they have a chance at an easy out, such as the Coast Guard. Without this safety net, they would be forced to overcome or die. I know that's extreme but when discussing the seaworthiness of any vessel, I think we can all agree the crew has a lot to do with it. 

Common sense says to maintain your boat. Common sense says to become a shade tree meteorologist. At the very least understand pressure gradients, lows and highs and the wind and waves associated with them. Common sense says spend more on your rigging, structure and backup systems then your paint and stereo system. I can't even tell you how many people I have witnessed buy an old boat, clean it up, slap a coat of paint on it and call it good. How many people do you know that replace their standing rigging every ten years? Usually they just have it inspected by an "expert" and drive on. I've had a forestay rip out of its turnbuckle and its not fun. Luckily it was just before heading out and I was doing my pre trip inspection. Which sometimes includes removing my cotter pins and turning my turnbuckles back and forth to check them. That's how I found it. One turn and the entire thing came out. Never again. My rigging is brand new and ten years from today it will be new again. Common sense....ha


----------



## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

We are out here in Tahiti with the boats crossing the Pacifica and 95%+ have show common sense and good seamanship...In 4 months in French Polynesia we have only met 2 boats where common sense was lacking.

However, there are repeated reports of crews crossing the Gulf Steam calling for help but much of that problem is because people think that you can safely go out in the North Atlantic, in Winter, on a schedule!

RAINMAKER ABANDONED: Gunboat 55 Hull No. 1 Dismasted, Crew Evacuated by Helo

ABANDONING BE GOOD TOO: The Builder Responds

Both of these boats were 'on a schedule.' We have gone outside 'around' Hatteras 4 times on our way to or from the Caribbean but never on a schedule or in the axis of the Stream and I have crossed the Stream a dozen times in boats flimsier than a Catalina 30, without problems...It is 100% about common sense!

Phil & Nell in Tahiti


----------



## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

My favorite reply to "Is this boat bluewater capable?" is: There are no bluewater boats - Only bluewater sailors. Know your boat, know your gear, know your seamanship, know yourself. Then make it happen.


----------



## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Maiden Voyage: Tania Aebi: 9781476747729: Amazon.com: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@515Wvxzoi5L

Cruising for Cowards: A Practical A-Z for Coastal and Offshore Sailors by Liza Copeland and Andy Copeland

We've met Liza at the Annapolis show. Great lady with a good perspective on cruising.


----------

