# Pilot house boats



## deniseO30

What's everyone's take (good bad and indifferent) on these types of ( beautiful (to me) sailboats? Also, feelings about having such a boat on the Chesapeake? I know the heat of sultry summers is a factor.

this one took my breath away.. don't know why can't buy it. at least not yet :laugher The Sailing Emporium (Rock Hall, MD)


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## eryka

No wind here in summer time; unless you have a very light boat (the one you linked to doesn't qualify) you're either going to motor everywhere or stay tied to the dock. Inside steering will be a huge plus if you decide to go south for the winter, and multiple sail combinations will be nice also. Galley looks a bit skimpy for fulltime liveaboard, especially if you're heeled while underway. 

Most important, though, if you think its beautiful, if it will make you happy seeing it as you come walking down the dock or rowing out to your mooring, then living aboard it will be a good thing.


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## mpickering

I like them. A pilot house motorsailer is on my list of future possible monohulls for cruising. I think it boils down to sailing style, desires and personal preference. I like it for the center cockpit (less perceived motion) and protection from the elements.

Matt


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## RXBOT

Not sure but forward mast looks like it is raked forward instead of aft, otherwise looks nice. However I would have thought you would stick to sloop for single handling purposes.


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## deniseO30

I'm just seeking opinions on those types. I like the idea of a pilot house boat but in this area.. no wind in summer as Eryka points out


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## sailingdog

If you want a nice pilothouse boat that works even in summer, how about one of these:


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## thesnort

That's a serious looking catamaran. Do you know what kind it is?


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## LookingForCruiser

thesnort said:


> That's a serious looking catamaran. Do you know what kind it is?


A Chris White Atlantic 42

A 42 - ChrisWhiteDesigns' Photos- powered by SmugMug


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## JiffyLube

sailingdog said:


> If you want a nice pilothouse boat that works even in summer, how about one of these:


I think he's looking for something around $60,000.


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## jrd22

Pilothouse, or the new term, Decksalon, boats have some pluses and some minus's just like all boats. I wouldn't have anything else for the location and type of cruising we do here in the PNW,BC,Alaska. We use the boat year round and I guess you could call us "fair weather sailors" in that we don't enjoy standing out in the rain when it's 40F. That's not the only reason to have a pilot house obviously, being able to see from the main salon almost everything you can see from the cockpit is a major plus both while sailing for those that need a warm up or to get out of the sun and also at anchor when you want to be inside but don't want to be down in a dark hole. 
A well designed PH can sail and point almost as well as a comparable non PH. We don't keep up with the J boats, but keep up with and pass some 40' cruise type sailboats so I don't know that it would be fair to say that just because it's a PH it is going to do poorly in light winds (our winds are typically light during the summer here). 
One trade off that most PH's suffer from is interior room, but lot's of storage. Most PH designs, like the Mariner you linked to, are restricted to the width inside the side decks for the width of the salon as opposed to a traditional design that is able to take advantage of the full width of the hull for living space. Typically when you step down to go forward from the salon in a PH (stateroom, galley, head, V-berth, etc) it's essentially the same as a traditional boat. We are partial to having a full steering station inside as well as the table up in the PH (our boat also has the galley up, which is unusual, but Laurie loves the view while cooking), many designs just have an autopilot and engine controls and many do not have the table in the salon. 
Like you, I love the looks of a PH, they look more "boaty" to me, but then I like the looks of fishing boats too.
Our boat (Brewer designed Taiwan built) has traveled extensively in both the north and south Pacific without mishap, and I wouldn't hesitate to go offshore despite the dire warnings about the PH windows that come up in every PH discussion.
As far as heat goes, we have shades for the side windows and we are going to get something made for the windshield windows to block the sun while anchored and we have a light cover for the cockpit when at anchor. Last summer was an anomaly here in the PNW, we had 90+F days for several weeks while out cruising and although it was hot I don't know that we were hotter than anyone else. 
You might want to look at the Shannon 38's as well, probably more expensive, or another step up would be the Sceptre 41/3. If price was no object I would love a Nauticat 39 or possibly a Cabo Rico 42. 
PM me if you have any specific questions.


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## tdw

Love Pilot House or Deck Saloon though with some reservations.

If all you gain is inside steering then I don't see the point. Unless your saloon is also up top then to my mind you are missing out on the main benefit, to wit, being able to sprawl about inside nice warm cabin while still being able to watch the world go by.

The Mariner has only one seat up top, main saloon down below. Doesn't make sense to me.

JRD22's Brewer...now that's a nice PH...nearly bought one of those myself. Bit more than the Mariner I admit but to my mind a good looking boat. Saloon and galley up top with inside steering and chart table.










Bob Perry has designed some nice ones, he even did a Valiant 40 PH and his his Baba 40 PH is a lovely boat though they are a bit rare. BP also designed these two following. If I had the dosh I'd have one of these. The Cape Horn is a bit big and more of a traditional motor sailor though I think she'd kick up her heels with the sheets eased, while the Lyman Morse could well be an updated Valiant. Sadly neither have been built.



















If PHs have a problem it is windage. Improvements in glass technology probably make the exposed window risk less of a problem than it once was but you still have an awful lot of bulk on deck and that can make anchoring in strong winds a bit dicey. If you go Deck Saloon rather than Pilot House then you can reduce that problem, which brings me to my realistic dream baby, the Dehler 41 DS. They are not perfect but I have not found anything even vaguely in the price range that sets me to salivating quite like the DS41.










But..if you want a real bargain and serious sex on the water you can pick up one of these babies for sub $80.000 though she is in Australia. The Calkins 50....now that is one pretty arse....










Now SD...the Atlantic 42 is one pretty multi, probably the horniest looking cruising multi afloat though I wish the berths were a bit more spacious. Other than that they are most certainly a multi that could woo me over.


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## Faster

Like JRD, I think the PH style boats have a real place here in the PNW esp. and can extend anyone's season anywhere. Whether the inside helm is a true advantage would depend on the actual sight lines from it, not only forward for steering and conning, but aloft to watch/set sail trim - of course on those gray calm days when motoring that's not so much of an issue.

Another drawback of the necessarily bulkier cabin house would be the sight lines from the cockpit.. some, like the Cooper series are seriously compromised in this area. (as is, judging from the pic above, fuzzy's sweet Calkin) Elevated helm seats can help, but they won't necessarily be the ideal spot to steer from in all conditions.

I do really like those designs that put the salon up there where you have seated visibility of the anchorage and the rest of the world. I agree with tdw that those designs that still bury the settees forward and down pretty much miss the point and advantage of the concept.

Balancing the concept - profile/house height/visibility/sightlines etc is a tricky task made, I think, somewhat easier with today's trend to high freeboard hulls.

btw - Cal made a series from 35 feet up (Cruising Cals) in the 70s that did a decent job though I don't believe they included a version with inside steering.


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## tdw

JRD just managed to post before me (how dare he !!! ) so much of what I said echoes his thoughts and to boot I missed out mentioning the Scepters. Lovely boats.

I must admit I am in two minds about the Nauticats. Along with the British Fisher, they are very much the epitomy of the Motor Sailor to me. While I would happily have one I cannot see them being used as pure sailing boats all that often. Admittedly I am talking about the more traditional Nauticats but then the newer ones are not to my taste visually.


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## bljones

SD, unless i am missing something, the Chris White cat can't be considered a pilothouse- the helm is ahead of the house and fully exposed. So unless there is a second helm inside, she ain't a pilothouse.

Denise, i have a soft spot for PHs too, but unless yo know the pedigree, some pilothouses are wolves in sheeps clothing. For example, the Harstad...

Harstad 31 yacht sailboat for sale

... is just a Clipper Marine 32 with a raised house.

Some of the smaller Fishers seem like decent compact tough packages.

Here, Denise, is a whole ton of pilothouse porn:

Monohulls


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## Faster

Cool link, blj.... but clearly most of those are motorsailers as opposed to pilothouse _sailboats_... not so many pretty ones there either  

Here's one of my money-no-object favourites (Able 51)










more affordable - the locally (PNW) produced Discover 42










and the Cooper 416 (there are 32, 35 and 50 foot versions as well)










The afore-mentioned Sceptre 41










and this unidentified but nicely executed 36-40-ish footer we saw in Guadeloupe this past winter:


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## deniseO30

Nice.. really a pleasure to look at so many. I never knew so many are Motor sailers! thanks!


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## tdw

bljones said:


> SD, unless i am missing something, the Chris White cat can't be considered a pilothouse- the helm is ahead of the house and fully exposed. So unless there is a second helm inside, she ain't a pilothouse.
> 
> Denise, i have a soft spot for PHs too, but unless yo know the pedigree, some pilothouses are wolves in sheeps clothing. For example, the Harstad...
> 
> Harstad 31 yacht sailboat for sale
> 
> ... is just a Clipper Marine 32 with a raised house.
> 
> Some of the smaller Fishers seem like decent compact tough packages.
> 
> Here, Denise, is a whole ton of pilothouse porn:
> 
> Monohulls


Wow, amongst the gems there are some really ugly boats on that page and as much as I admired Mr Crealock that Halstead is not his finest hour.

Hey Fast....I still reckon that the blue sloop in Guadalupe is a Van De Stadt.


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## Faster

tdw said:


> Hey Fast....I still reckon that the blue sloop in Guadalupe is a Van De Stadt.


 Could well be... and you oughta know!


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## sailor50

A pilot house gives you a lot more room, but it is a false feeling of security when in any type of sea. The older boats aren't maintained, the engines are good - the rigging is iffy.

You'll notice in the 50' Gulfstar Sailmaster, there is so much room for a family reunion, yet there are no hand holds, the galley is fashioned for a floating condo, and we are talking about a 40+ YO Boat. Great Motor Sailor. Roller in mast HOOD furling - almost foolfroof.

Let's talk about a CT 41' or 54' , they're known for years as Taiwan Turkeys. Very roomy - slow sailing vessels. Great teak carvings to make it look like you've been there. Way too much room to get knocked from side to side unless you put the head knocker handrails back in if you actually sail this boat. A 40 + YO boat mostly with wooden sticks. Great Motor Sailor.

Irwin 52' - 60', You'll find these mostly in the Bahamas and Florida. Great Motor Sailor with Bow Thrusters. These have been modified, yet the modifications are done to the TV's, electronics, and the rigs are sailing with mechanical fittings.

Not to discourage you - do you want a floating condo or can you live aboard your boat?


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## tdw

Sailor50....you fall into the trap of condemning all of a species on the basis of the faults of some.

I'm not suggesting that you are wrong in your comments about the boats you mention but that can hardly be taken as valid criticism of all Pilot House/Deck Saloons.

Bob Perry's Lyman Morse Perry 45....nothing much wrong with this as a sea going interior.










I could say the same for the Sceptre 41/43. Every inch a pilot house, every inch a true ocean voyager.

Floating condos are not restricted to DS/PH boats, you can find plenty of modern non DS/PH boats that are every inch the floating condo and hardly suitable for long term offshore work.


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## sailingdog

I can't believe you're such an unbelieving heathen.... here's a photo of the interior of that lovely beastie...and yes, she is a pilothouse.  










bljones said:


> SD, unless i am missing something, the Chris White cat can't be considered a pilothouse- the helm is ahead of the house and fully exposed. So unless there is a second helm inside, she ain't a pilothouse.


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## bljones

Thanks, SD.


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## LittleWingCA

The Hans Christian PH sailboats are great as well. You might want to check them out, however they are not cheap.

Does anyone know if full plans were ever completed on this design? This is beautiful.


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## PCP

Once I stayed at the same anchorage with one of these. I had time to see how beatiful the boat was) :












































In the morning we sailed out at the same time and I was very surprised to see that it is a fine sailing boat. There was a very weak wind and he was making almost the same speed as my boat. My boat was light and that one is an heavy boat .

It is a Swedish boat, a "Fantasi 44 DS" .

Regards

Paulo


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## tdw

LittleWingCA said:


> The Hans Christian PH sailboats are great as well. You might want to check them out, however they are not cheap.
> 
> Does anyone know if full plans were ever completed on this design? This is beautiful.


LittleWing,
The Perry 49 Pilot House....dubbed the Cape Horn 49 from memory, was taken to pricing stage. The design was worked up by BP to the prospective owners wants and needs then costed in both the US and China. End result was that client pulled the plug due to the cost and went out and bought themselves a Grand Banks or similar. BP said at the time that it broke his heart.
When my gout is acting up and I'm having trouble climbing companionway ladders (and I'm in dreamland financially) I do lust after this lady. She'd never be a speed machine under sail but as a true motor sailor for the noughties she mooooves me !  A boat for cold climates and a sedentary lifestyle where you probably do as much motoring as sailing except on passage and a lot of time spent on the hook.




























Clarification - Image files are computer generated. She was never built.

(I did think I had a sail plan as well. Its possibly on my home computer. If I find it I'll post tomorrow.)

Interesting to compare the Fantasi with the Perry. While the Fantasi could hardly be called cutting edge design its quite obvious how much more conservative Americans are than Europeans. Obviously that is said in the very broadest of senses and conservative is not necessarily a pejorative term. Indeed if you look at things like Fishers and Nauticats the opposite pov could be argue I guess.


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## DwayneSpeer

I think they should be reserved for sailors that need to hide from the weather most of the time. Like those in very wet places like Seattle or very cold places like Ketchikan. Otherwise you miss out in most of the fun (experience).


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## sailordave

mpickering said:


> I like them. A pilot house motorsailer is on my list of future possible monohulls for cruising. I think it boils down to sailing style, desires and personal preference. *I like it for the center cockpit (less perceived motion)* and protection from the elements.
> 
> Matt


Uh, w/ a CC boat you are going to get MORE motion. They sit higher out of the water and thus move more than an aft cockpit boat. I've heard more than one story about a couple who stepped up to a bigger boat (usually the wife wants the aft cabin) and all of a sudden they find they're getting sea sick in conditions they previously didn't.

Personally, I don't like em.


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## blt2ski

Wait a minute, whom said it is wet in Seattle?!?!?!? It rains more on the east coast of the US from May 1 to Oct 1 than it does in Seattle the whole freekin yr! by 6-10" no less! altho it is a bit gray here all year.........

Scepters are lovely boat, only about 85 of the 41/43's built, all but one are floating. the one was a dingaling from microsoft, paid mucho buck to outfit for ocean cruising, had it on auto pilot, gps etc, went to sleep, woke up on a reef down south some where, still sits there from what one of the two folks that own one at my YC/marina. Lots of them here in the NW. 

I did not realize a deck saloon was a form of one of these things. A really ugly version in my eyes. then again, who asked! No wonder the local Jeanneau dealer only orders in DS versions........ugly cateye blinking things they may be!

I will admit, with the cooler temps here in the greater puger sound.straight of georgia/salish sea area of the N American continent, a PH does make sense from a cruising standpoint. If they suit your needs, get one!

Marty


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## tdw

Regarding the motion....we had a member here sometime back...TrueBlue....who had a Nauticat. His wife found th boat unacceptable due to the motion, particularly when outside on the aft deck. I do agree that some PHs do leave you you way up in the air and that is not a good thing.

It's why my personal preferences as SAILING PHs go are for the likes of the Dehler, Scepter, Luffe etc. They are more Deck Saloons that true PHs. To be honest the inside steering thing is the least of my concerns. I really just want to be able to sit inside, warm and dry, while the world goes by.


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## PCP

That's not my cup of tea, I mean motor-sailors that are more motorboats than sailing boats, but, on the lines (same principle) of the Perry 49 and that actually are on the market even if they almost dont sell any boat. These are some of them:

There is the Nordvan 56MS:

Nordhavn - Power That Is Oceans Apart










and the old Fisher (I like it a lot more ) that is still built by Nordshore:

Fisher 37


















and, sailing better, the Kanter:

Kanter Yachts










And sailing well, the new Mody DS:

http://www.moodyboats.com/decksaloon-62/360.html#/index.php?id=1363&no_cache=1&type=666










And some more

Regards

Paulo


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## PCP

tdw said:


> ..
> It's why my personal preferences as SAILING PHs go are for the likes of the Dehler, Scepter, Luffe etc. They are more Deck Saloons that true PHs. To be honest the inside steering thing is the least of my concerns. I really just want to be able to sit inside, warm and dry, while the world goes by.


There are lots of deck saloons that offer as an option a wheel, but really, nobody wants them. They have been replaced by joysticks. They are a lot more practical and they don't use interior space.


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## tdw

PCP said:


> There are lots of deck saloons that offer as an option a wheel, but really, nobody wants them. They have been replaced by joysticks. They are a lot more practical and they don't use interior space.


Too true. Even remote controls for auto pilots can fill this role.

Ref those other Pilot Houses.....The Nordhavn is really awful. I hate that thing. Fisher, very much a cold climate boat and I don't think I'd ever want one but they have a certain stolid charm about them, while there is a certain part of me that actually likes the Moody a lot. Interior is a bit high tech apartment for my taste but the exterior I like. Sometimes just being different is good enough for me. In the case of the Moody , OK. In the case of the Nordhavn....blech.


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## PCP

Andrews, that probably will surprise you, but, five years ago, the boat that I was l looking for substituting my 36ft was a deck-saloon and the Dehler 41ds was on my short list, not to say that it was my preferred boat.

Well, why have I changed my focus? Big production manufacturers tried and give up stopping the production of their deck-saloons. Hanse had one, Dehler also and Jeanneau changed its philosophy from a real deck-saloon to a boat with more interior light and raised roof as well as Bavaria with its Vision series.

If sailors don't want them there has to be a reason and I started to search for an answer and I believe I have found it and that have changed my focus on the search of my next boat.

This year on Croatia it was not particularly hot. It was very pleasant and less hot then any season I can remember on the Med, but even so I have noticed that virtually all the big motor-yachts had all the big glasses from their saloons covered from the outside with white plastic covers.

I believe that in a boat-show all those boats have impressive outside views, that in real Med conditions are nonexistent, transforming a bright interior in a dark one. The reason is the sun and the raise in interior temperature. You cannot open those windows neither you can open the ones from a deck-saloon sail boat, so you have to cover them.

Practically all manufacturers of deck-saloons are situated on cold climates and their clients want them because the temperature inside never gets too hot and it can protect them from the cold climate.

So Andrews, what are and what are going to be your cruising grounds? Are they cold? Not mine and that is why I have changed my focus on the kind of boat I want. I still want a view but I will accept a small one (on the hull) from the saloon. At least this one will not need to be covered .

Anyway, you probably know this one, that is the most successful small real deck-saloon and the one that is easier to find on the market, with few years and by a good price:

Blue Water Sailing
Fotos de barco Wauquiez Pilot Saloon 41 de Vela monocasco - Galeria









































This is a Wauquiez 41ds. This is the last model before they stop production of this model (2006 model - now they only make big DS and the Opium) and as you can see they have found a way to make small openings on the big glass windows. I believe it is not very nice, but will be very important as a way of getting some fresh air. This is also a good sailing boat (for this type of boat) with good interiors.

WAUQUIEZ FRANCIA WAUQUIEZ 40 DS - Barco de Vela em Valencia por 145.000 €

Regards

Paulo


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## sailingfool

I sail a deck saloon periodically and I find the raised deck somewhat of a pain, sailing-wise. Configurations like this are fine for powerboats, or motorsailers who usually function as powerboats. But if you need to go to the mast or forward, you have to clamber up and over the raised roof. Additionally, you cannot see forward when sitting in the cockpit, the helmsperson must stand while driving.

All boats are a collection of trade-offs, the comfort value of this design versus the resulting difficulty of moving about on the deck, and limited visibility, are trade-offs that don't work for me.


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## tdw

SF....I'm thinking that is mainly a concern if you use the boat for day sailing in crowded waters or want to do a post of racing. For our purposes its not really an issue, though I take your point.

Paulo......the big window issue is to my mind both the DS's best and worst points, you are quite correct. For me the very worst are the boats where you cannot see out while seated in the saloon but you still have those monstrously huge windows. I'd probably be quite content to have larger than normal in hull ports. OTOH....I don't plan on spending a lot of time in the tropics. Sydney's weather is about as hot as I can cope with for more than a few days at a time. 

btw...I remember being on board both the DS and non DS Wauquiez a couple of years back. Have to say I much preferred the layout of the non DS.


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## Spirit17

*Brewer 40*

We are owners of a 1985 Brewer 40 Puget Pilot and would be interested in discussing this boat with you and other owners. We have a few questios and issues of boat construction and repair options. Specifically we have developed a number of blisters and pox along the waterline both in the boot stripe and below. Second concern is the fuel tanks which one seems to have dveloped a pinhole.


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## tomperanteau

bljones said:


> SD, unless i am missing something, the Chris White cat can't be considered a pilothouse- the helm is ahead of the house and fully exposed. So unless there is a second helm inside, she ain't a pilothouse.
> 
> Denise, i have a soft spot for PHs too, but unless yo know the pedigree, some pilothouses are wolves in sheeps clothing. For example, the Harstad...
> 
> Harstad 31 yacht sailboat for sale
> 
> ... is just a Clipper Marine 32 with a raised house.
> 
> Some of the smaller Fishers seem like decent compact tough packages.
> 
> Here, Denise, is a whole ton of pilothouse porn:
> 
> Monohulls


Just an update to your post...

The Harstad 31 is not a pilot house by definition. Crealock evidently wanted this boat to be many things, but it was not really great at any one. It was just adequate at some.

The link you provided showed a Harstad with an added hard dodger that was not originally included. There was no pilot house, as the helm was outside and although not as wet as many, was still wet.

And you are correct that Clipper later got a hold of molds for the Harstad and made the Clipper 32. Was a very similar boat, but suffered the same shortcomings that the Harstad did, and there were a few.

Tom


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## centaursailor

Am always envious of these boats when I witness the comfort a pilot house provides for the crew, on the water their crews are usually warm and dry and tied up they have shelter and privacy on deck. Am looking at the small number of Centaurs that have a pilot house added and am very impressed. My Centaur is nearly a motor sailer anyway, even the designer recommends the iron main when going hard to wind ward.
Over here on the east coast of Ireland it rains a lot and the thought of coming back from a sail without cursing the treacherous weather forecasts is very appealing. A heavy displacement boat like the Centaur, 8mts and 5 ton can easily carry a fair sized pilot house and the relatively high boon gives good head height in the cockpit areas.
Hope you make the right choice.
Brian


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## LinekinBayCD

There is really a lot of varients of the pilothouse out there. What works for crossing oceans won't necessarily make a great coastal cruiser. Given that a pilot house is often a compromise in and of itself. You should have a pretty clear idea of how you intend to use it to find somethingthat works with your intended use. 

A pilot house was always something I had considered and had looked at a lot on line, in person and in adds. The oneI wound up buying was almost by accident when I was considering a Cape Dory 30 that I thought would be used promarily as a day sailer and on one or two week cruises. In the course of looking at several CD 30's an Alberg design I came across the Cape Dory MS 300. Like its looks, size and accomidations. Much larger than the Alberg designed CD 30 but not the heavy weather sailer te Albergs are. But for the type of coastal crusing and day hoppping I do it works great. For long distance crusing I liked the Corbin 39 PH's I looked at.


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## christyleigh

Of course I have a very prejudiced view but you can see that I like pilothouses. As for 'sight lines' when I'm steering from the high (but small) cockpit (99% of the time) my vision forward is the same or better than the Catalina 320 I had last. Since I don't have a really active crew I'm always on the down side looking under the genoa as I have been on all boats and the pilothouse is not in the way - at all.


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## Faster

Stan... you're right,that's one of the areas where the Nauticats excel... they don't put a conventional (sit-in) cockpit behind the house.

But looking at the Saturnas, Coopers, even Sceptres and esp boats that available in both PH and trunk cabin versions, sightlines from the cockpit are indeed compromised.


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## gulftex

*pilothouse boats*

I have been looking at a 1983 Islander Freeport.Really a nice boat.The thing that bothers me is the Pathfinder engine.Every thing I have heard is not good,parts hard to find,machanics don't like working on them.What say you
Gulftex


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## Faster

gulftex said:


> I have been looking at a 1983 Islander Freeport.Really a nice boat.The thing that bothers me is the Pathfinder engine.Every thing I have heard is not good,parts hard to find,machanics don't like working on them.What say you
> Gulftex


Now you've struck a chord with me. I'm a big fan of these powerplants. Since when are Volkswagen parts hard to find? They are manufactured around the world and even using VW prices way less costly that Volvo or Yanmar for equivalents. As for the non VW parts - ie the marinization parts like RW pump, heat exchanger, gears.. they are standard marine manufacturers like Bowman, Sherwood, Jabsco, Hurth etc.

I've rebuilt one of these 4 cyl 40-50 hp engines for around $2500 all up - try that on a 4 cyl Volvo.

They are a bit noisy and they are not as compact as the 'marine' engines.. but to give you an example last year the FWC pump seal started leaking. I had it replaced and running again same day for under $100. If you're not mechanically inclined yourself, you're far more likely to find a VW mechanic than a Volvo or Yanmar in more remote areas.

The thousands and thousands of Rabbit Diesels on the roads worldwide, getting over 300K miles on them and still going is a testament to the core engine itself.

We have had this engine in our last two boats... no issues that I haven't heard in spades for others with so-called 'good' engines.

(note to self... step off the soap box....)


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## christyleigh

Faster said:


> they don't put a conventional (sit-in) cockpit behind the house.


 Although I don't think you meant that in a negative way I still would like to add a couple pictures to show that even though I'm perched up on the 2nd story  ....... the cockpit still gives me a feeling of being 'tucked in' to a safe place -


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## sailingdog

Stan-

If that locker is big enough for someone to get into, I would highly recommend reversing the padlock hasp. Had to rescue a friend from such a locker a few years back when it shut on him after the wind blew the lid closed while he was working on the engine, in the locker. 

The hasp should always be opened by gravity, rather than closed, to prevent accidentally getting trapped in the locker.


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## christyleigh

sailingdog said:


> If that locker is big enough for someone to get into, I would highly recommend reversing the padlock hasp.


Ohhhhhh...... do I wish it was. That's one of the things I miss about my C320 that had one locker that both of us could get into plus another couple cockpit lockers that held more than the one in the picture. The NC makes up for it with a couple interior lockers that I can Stand in. But I do miss the outside storage.


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## LakeSuperiorGeezer

Thirty foot Willard Vega Motor Sailor on ebay at $3500, needs work. 1973 Willard Vega Motor Sailor Rare Find 1 of 28 NR - eBay (item 290523029744 end time Jan-21-11 07:24:39 PST)


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## jrd22

While there is no argument that most PH's visibility over the top of the house from the cockpit is impaired while sitting, both PH boats that I have owned have good forward visibility from the helm thru the companionway (and ports/windows in aft house bulkhead) and the forward windows. Generally this is good enough to suffice for most of our sailing, although if we were in an area with a lot of traffic I would most likely either be standing, or in our current boat sitting at the raised helm seat which gives a clear view over the top. One benefit to the higher cabin is that, especially in cooler climates like here in the PNW, it makes a nice wind break and there is always a good spot on the lee side of the cockpit that is out of the wind.


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## Faster

Stan - right, my comment was not negative - I was referring to a normal cockpit whose sole is below deck level, vs the Nauticat's which is essentially at deck level.

John - there's always a trade off, isn't there?.. the shelter in our neck of the woods is worth something, no doubt.


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## sailingdog

christyleigh said:


> Ohhhhhh...... do I wish it was. That's one of the things I miss about my C320 that had one locker that both of us could get into plus another couple cockpit lockers that held more than the one in the picture. The NC makes up for it with a couple interior lockers that I can Stand in. But I do miss the outside storage.


Just checking...


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## bljones

LakeSuperiorGeezer said:


> Thirty foot Willard Vega Motor Sailor on ebay at $3500, needs work. 1973 Willard Vega Motor Sailor Rare Find 1 of 28 NR - eBay (item 290523029744 end time Jan-21-11 07:24:39 PST)


It needs tooo much work, even for me. I don't know what they were thinking, laying up the aft deck with concrete.


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## Broacher

Have searched high and low for an older pilothouse or centre cockpit boat that I can add a hard dodger roof to for winter cruising in the Pacific North West.

Must be 38' or under, have a nice conversation-pit/dinette, will sleep four without having to dismantle the dinette every evening, motors at 7knots, can be single handed, and SAILS UPWIND as well as sideways. 

Saw a nice looking Chris Craft of all things, but you couldn't stand at the helm.

Like searching for duck's teeth.


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## Faster

Broacher said:


> ...Must be 38' or under, have a nice conversation-pit/dinette, will sleep four without having to dismantle the dinette every evening, motors at 7knots, can be single handed, *and SAILS UPWIND as well as* sideways.


Except for this last.... how about the Seabird 37 cc.... by Cooper.


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## Broacher

Figured a Seabird would work but with a deeper keel and bow thruster. Folks I know can only make 70 degrees to weather in theirs. They seem rather sluggish in light airs and not always easy to tack. Found that docking is sometimes a challenge but yes, that is the nearest.

Finnsailor 35 centre cockpit sloop would be perfect. Wonderful light helm. Points nicely. Rarely see them here. Saw a nicely converted Grampian 30. 

Not so keen on the o'day 32/37 saloon layout. Not so cosy below decks.

Some nice motorsailors would fit the bill if only they had a double quarter berth or two quarter berths. Would not dare to attempt such a conversion. 

Hallberg Rassy 35 Rasmus maybe, but most I have seen are south of the border.


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## LinekinBayCD

Broacher said:


> Have searched high and low for an older pilothouse or centre cockpit boat that I can add a hard dodger roof to for winter cruising in the Pacific North West.
> 
> Must be 38' or under, have a nice conversation-pit/dinette, will sleep four without having to dismantle the dinette every evening, motors at 7knots, can be single handed, and SAILS UPWIND as well as sideways.
> 
> Saw a nice looking Chris Craft of all things, but you couldn't stand at the helm.
> 
> Like searching for duck's teeth.


Have you tried boats.com. Search using motorsailor as the type/class of boat in the advanced search section. You will get tons of different models. I found 300 between 30' and 38'. Have you looked at the Mariner 38? It was one I had looked at.


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## codyseacraft37

I know of a Fantasi 44 pilothouse coming on the market very soon in Seattle, WA. I would be willing to try schedule a showing to individuals with a significant interest in this boat. She is rigged to the max and very meticulously maintained.


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## Faster

codyseacraft37 said:


> I know of a Fantasi 44 pilothouse coming on the market very soon in Seattle, WA. ....


Cody.. is this your boat?


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## codyseacraft37

Not my boat, no. Friends of mine cruised with the owner. Are you familiar with the Fantasi 44 Pilothouse, Ron?


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## Faster

Not until you mentioned it.. pretty attractive (read expensive?) PH boat.. perfect for around here!


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## codyseacraft37

Yeah they are incredible yachts fit to make any passage comfortably. The last one that sold was in 9/2011 in the UK and sold for $532,883 US. Yes, they are expensive as they are in an elite class of sailing cruiser.


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