# Another yacht abandoned, 450 NM SE of Cape Cod



## JonEisberg

Damn, I hope none of the Newport-Bermuda race fleet run into any of these hulks left drifting around out there this year... 

http://bwsailing.com/cc/?p=20424


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## tempest

A GPH wasn't going to sink it. If it wasn't scuttled there's a good possibility it will be found floating. Given enough time, it could end up back on the beach in Cape Cod. Sounds like it's East of the Stream though.


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## smackdaddy

Containers used to be a big worry. Now it's abandoned sailboats everywhere.

This part's interesting:



> taking on water at a rate of one gallon-per-hour and was experiencing heavy winds and seas


Really?


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## ScottUK

> taking on water at a rate of one gallon-per-hour and was experiencing heavy winds and seas


Hope that's a typo because my bladder can take on more water per hour after some rum races.


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## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> Containers used to be a big worry. Now it's abandoned sailboats everywhere.


Yup, the Newport-Bermuda crews had beter keep an extra-sharp lookout, this year... 

I'm starting to wonder about the future of the AMVER program. It's proven very successful, of course, but what's in it for those guys? At the rate the commercial shipping industry is being asked to perform these sorts of rescues, and simply absorb the costs to them of doing so, how much longer before some in the industry might begin to re-think their participation?

I can imagine a time, a decade or two in the future, when AMVER might morph into a sort of High Seas version of SEA TOW... Sailors venturing offshore would pay a 'Membership Fee' entitling them to a 'free' rescue or assistance at sea (a fuel drop, for example). For those who declined to participate and purchase such 'rescue insurance', the shipping industry might be a bit more aggressive in their effort to recover their costs...

Far-fetched, no doubt... However, at the rate things are going right now, perhaps not...


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## aeventyr60

JonEisberg said:


> Yup, the Newport-Bermuda crews had beter keep an extra-sharp lookout, this year...
> 
> I'm starting to wonder about the future of the AMVER program. It's proven very successful, of course, but what's in it for those guys? At the rate the commercial shipping industry is being asked to perform these sorts of rescues, and simply absorb the costs to them of doing so, how much longer before some in the industry might begin to re-think their participation?
> 
> I can imagine a time, a decade or two in the future, when AMVER might morph into a sort of High Seas version of SEA TOW... Sailors venturing offshore would pay a 'Membership Fee' entitling them to a 'free' rescue or assistance at sea (a fuel drop, for example). For those who declined to participate and purchase such 'rescue insurance', the shipping industry might be a bit more aggressive in their effort to recover their costs...
> 
> Far-fetched, no doubt... However, at the rate things are going right now, perhaps not...


Do the folks who get rescued by the AMVER program ever donate any money to the rescue organization? Maybe RH and Triumph( to name a few) could comment?


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## smackdaddy

JonEisberg said:


> Yup, the Newport-Bermuda crews had beter keep an extra-sharp lookout, this year...


I'm mostly worried about the SDR participants. Could be havoc out there.


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## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> I'm mostly worried about the SDR participants. Could be havoc out there.


Well, I suppose it will have to be left to our collective imaginations, how a pre-departure Safety Inspection might have prevented any of these recent abandonments... 

How ironic, that among all these losses and rescues recently, the one boat most likely equipped in strict compliance with the ISAF safety guidelines, was the Beneteau 40.7 CHEEKI RAFIKI, with the loss of her 4 crew...


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## smackdaddy

JonEisberg said:


> How ironic, that among all these losses and rescues recently, the one boat most likely equipped in strict compliance with the ISAF safety guidelines, was the Beneteau 40.7 CHEEKI RAFIKI, with the loss of her 4 crew...


So ISAF requires Utrasonic Testing of keel structures? Where is that reg again?

You bring up a good point though. One of the most likely culprits in the CR tragedy seems to be "cycles". In other words, this boat appears to have been through A LOT of stress cycles in the type of sailing it did.

Take that concept of cycles and apply it to a 20-30-40 year old boat. I think you owe it to the SDR to let them know about this correlation. Maybe rudders and masts (and people, of course) would then stay on the boats.


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## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> So ISAF requires Utrasonic Testing of keel structures? Where is that reg again?


Thanks for helping me make my point


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## smackdaddy

JonEisberg said:


> Thanks for helping me make my point


Dude - you really need to get better at twisting logic...or at least make better points.

My point has never been that ISAF cures all. You know that, Mr. Binary. My point has always been that a _complete lack of safety standards_ such as in the SDR is just stupid.

At least they're talking a better game with their ode to Steve Black:



> Many of the Salty Dawgs began their offshore sailing careers with Steve Black, at his Passage Maker seminars, the Caribbean 1500 and the Bermuda Rally. Steve had been executive director U.S. Sailing and had organized the popular NOOD races in four regions of the country before founding the Caribbean 1500 in 1990.
> 
> *The Salty Dawg Rally is infused with the principles that Steve espoused in sailing*: good preparation, good company, good spirits, and a clean wake. *Steve emphasized safety and preparation*, and much of his sailing time was single-handed. Everyone who ever sailed with Steve has a "Steve Story," most of them true. Most of them Steve told on himself.
> 
> Anywhere cruising sailors gather, at least one of the crowd will have sailed with Steve. To him we owe this debt, he inspired us to cast off the docklines, explore, dream, discover.


Sure, they leave safety out of their own list above - strange. But, at least they give it a throw away in the next sentence. Let's just hope they actually follow in that clean wake Steve laid out with the safety/preparation protocols of the C1500 - thereby actually honoring his legacy. Casting off the docklines for your dream is great - until 5 boats call for rescue.

We'll see.


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## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> Dude - you really need to get better at twisting logic...or at least make better points.
> 
> My point has never been that ISAF cures all. You know that, Mr. Binary. My point has always been that a _complete lack of safety standards_ such as in the SDR is just stupid.


As always, if you continue to insist that placing the sole and ultimate responsibility for the safe preparation and passage upon the skipper of each individual vessel, where it most properly belongs - and which the SDR makes abundantly clear in their Mission Statement - represents a "_complete lack of safety standards_", then we will never reach any point of agreement...

Again, I would invite anyone to speculate how the Safety Standards of the Caribbean 1500 might have prevented any of the losses of yachts so far in 2014...



smackdaddy said:


> The Salty Dawg Rally is infused with the principles that Steve espoused in sailing: good preparation, good company, good spirits, and a clean wake. Steve emphasized safety and preparation...
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, they leave safety out of their own list above - strange. But, at least they give it a throw away in the next sentence.
Click to expand...

I would suggest that "safety" might properly fall under the umbrella of "Good Preparation", but perhaps that's just me...

Why you continue to argue that the SDR has little or no regard for "Safety", is completely beyond me... I know you're read their mission statement over and over, parsing every single word... Do you simply believe they are _LYING_ when they say this?



> Information including weather, Gulf Stream analysis, location of eddies, and daily weather forecasts during the passage is provided to each skipper by well‐known weather router Chris Parker, courtesy of Blue Water Sailing magazine. Volunteer Dick Giddings manages float plans for all of the boats in the fleet and maintains a daily SSB radio schedule, as well as daily positions for everyone (via HF radio and SatPhone). It is each skipper's responsibility to decide the course and whether or not to set out for the passage. *The Rally, with an emphasis on safety*, communication, camaraderie and fun, opens the door to new friends and experiences while cruising various areas in the Caribbean.


Well, anyways... it's nice to see that you appear at least to be coming around to accepting my contention - despite the absence of "data" - that the frequency these abandonments and losses of sailing yachts offshore appear to be on the increase...


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## smackdaddy

Well, let's just say Steve Black seemed to have very different ideas regarding safety than you and your SDR pals. Typing words is cheap and easy. Having standards is costlier and harder.

I'll go with Steve on this one.


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## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> Well, let's just say Steve Black seemed to have very different ideas regarding safety than you and your SDR pals.


Hmmm, I wouldn't be so sure about that...

Before he started the 1500, Steve was renowned as a singlehanded sailor... 3 times he crossed the Atlantic solo, in addition to Bermuda 1-2s and a long involvement with the Great Lakes Singlehanded Society... Therefore, he did a LOT of sailing in contravention of COLREGS Rule #5, so I think it might be safe to say that his approach to Safety at Sea was somewhat 'flexible', at least... 

However, as one who has done a fair bit of solo sailing myself, I have a hunch Steve would be in full agreement with me, that it is the individual skipper - and he alone - who is ultimately responsible for the safe preparation and execution of any voyage he might choose to undertake...


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## hellosailor

one gallon per hour..

But *smackdaddy*, those are _imperial _gallons. Way way bigger than the ones you are thinking of. (VBG)


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## TQA

He needs to follow the example of the British pensioner and his Thai girlfriend aboard the 70 ft wooden gaff rigged schooner Schwalbe built in 1927.

They set off for Bermuda from the Bahamas, Broke a topmast and split a mast. Ran out of diesel but blagged some off a passing merchie. Managed the transfer somehow. 

Made it into an alternative port when plan A became impossible.

Bet it leaks more than one gallon per hour even on a good day. 

They were frightened but did not give up. Sorted the topmast out, did not call for help, got themselves out of trouble and deserve some kudos for a proper bit of seamanship.


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## JonEisberg

hellosailor said:


> one gallon per hour..
> 
> But *smackdaddy*, those are _imperial _gallons. Way way bigger than the ones you are thinking of. (VBG)


When I first read the report, I simply assumed - as ScottUK mentioned - that had to be a misprint or typo, or that there had to be a 0 or two omitted, or perhaps something was lost in translation from Flemish... 

Inconceivable, that 1 gph could precipitate such a cause for concern...


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## Capt Len

Back when, A coasting BC couple pulled a Mayday when they noticed the stern gland was dripping. Different levels of panic ??


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## sharkbait

1


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## patrickbryant

*Bolt-on keels*

For those of you who love bolt-on keels, and think encapsulated ballast is old fashioned, I've assembled a reading list. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

CHEEKI RAFIKI: Hull Found Again, Post Mortem | Sailfeed
Beneteau 40.7 Cheeki Rafiki missing Mid-Atlantic - Page 5 - Sailing Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums
Seeking to learn from keel failures >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News
Beneteau First 235 - O Beneteau Keel Bolts you scare me
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/67272-rusty-keel-bolts-how-bad.html
Hooligan V ? Report on loss of keel
Keeping the keel attached >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News

I, for one, am sticking to my encapsulated keel -- because _it_ has remained stuck to the bottom of my boat.


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