# Westerbeke or Yanmar??



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi Folks: 

I'm new to the group but hardly new to sailing - Name is Chuck and sail a Pearson 323 on Cayuga Lk, NY. 

I've been having trouble with my Volvo MD11C and am looking to repower. I'm considering a Westerbeke 30B or Yanmar 3YM30. Any opinions on reliability and/or maintenance concerns?

Thanks,
ChuckJ
SV Phrophecy


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I don't have any experience with the Westerbeke but I have a Yanmar and am very pleased with it. I belive it is probably a smaller and lighter engine than the Westerbeke and would make an easier retrofit. I'm sure others will chime in. Good luck.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*They*

They are both great engines. Both Yanmar and Westerbeke have high parts prices but you shouldn't need to many for a long while. My 2003 Westerbeke 44B four has over 2700 hours on it with zero problems.

If it were me i'd pick it by who will back you up the best in the future and which installer has the best reputation... Both engines are great!!


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

We recently rebuilt our W33, a fine engine, however I don't hear too often of people installing them new, Yanmar seems to have most of the mainstream new engine business. People who have them seem to have nothing but good things to say...I see the new Westerbeke still have aglow plug, perhaps they still dont offer the Yanmar instant start ability.


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## HoffaLives (Feb 19, 2007)

it's been talked about before, but research the blocks and find out if there is a non-marine equivalent. if the block is also used in industrial or agricultural equipment you can often find parts much cheaper.

Yanmar makes it's own engines while westy uses a generic diesel and marinises it, so you know that engine has non-marine equivalents out there.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

I think they will both be solid motors. 

Have a look at the Kubota-based Beta Marine motors. I say that so that you can source most of your spare parts from a plant machinery supplier if you have to.

Don't touch another Volvo. Never. Solid motors, but until they get sane about the spare parts prices, leave them in the mad house. I have been there, and ony just got out again, semi-sane, with bits of the wallpaper missing, some of the door handles chewed off the house....and much poorer.

I have no latent interest in Kubota or Beta.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi Rockter; Yehp, I've contacted the Beta-Marine dealer about the Kubota and the prices were $1k higher than either the Yanmar or Westerbeke. 

The decision to re-power rather than re-build is based on Volvo parts prices, and inability to find replacment parts for a rebuild. Tks for the feedback.

Chuck


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Yanmar is my suggestion.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I have a Westerbeke W52 and concur that perhaps unlike Yanmar and definitely unlike Volvo, there are non-marine spares that are applicable for rebuild and repair purposes.

May this never be a issue with you...

However, if your pattern of usage is "light", diesels hate "light" (10 minutes at low revs from a cold start, head to wind, off...sail for three hours, cold start, 10 minutes back...shut off for a week).

"Light" wears engines in my non-mechanic (but strongly suggestive via anecdote) far more than "regular" or even "heavy". It is possible to kill a new diesel in under 1,000 hours this way.

Sooo... if you intend to motorsail a lot, or to run your diesel for an hour at 2,400 RPM before you switch off, then get the Yanmar. They seem efficient and popular and somewhat lighter, perhaps even more compact.

If you aren't going to do that, get the Westerbeke. It may wear out just as fast as the Yanmar, but it may be a great deal cheaper to fix. They also have about the best shop manuals I've ever seen...which your mechanic will appreciate.

Please understand that there are few awful marine diesels, but that marine diesel usage, when combined with salt water, close, sometimes poorly vented "caves", and ignorance of basic maintenance, can drastically shorten the lifespan of a diesel engine, no matter what the make.

The old, heavy Perkins and Lister engines that drive old cruisers regularly go 10,000 hours between rebuilds, or 20 years for most people. That's because they get oil changes every 100 hours, clean coolant, block passage rinses, clean air, decent venting, zinc changes and, most importantly, hours and hours of runtime at 2,200-2,400 RPM or so, which is the point where fuel efficiency is best and speed is maybe only a knot below maximum.

Diesels, like dogs, thrive on routine....


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

My own experience is that both are good engines and if anything the Westerbeke is built a bit more sturdily BUT branded Westerbeke parts are WAY more expensive than branded Yamaha parts. You can get off brand parts for both cheaper.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Rockter said:


> I think they will both be solid motors.
> 
> Have a look at the Kubota-based Beta Marine motors. I say that so that you can source most of your spare parts from a plant machinery supplier if you have to.
> 
> ...


Amen to that sentiment!! I looked at well over 50 boats last year before finding and buying my current boat. One of my criteria for ruling out boats, prior to driving and looking at them, was "does it have a Volvo motor?".

Sorry to those of you that may have had otherwise beautiful boats for sale but I for one will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER own another boat with a Volvo motor period!! Hell I won't even look at one for that matter!

Volvo cost me an entire sailing season over a $52.00 back ordered part that actually should have cost $1.76 but after a few weeks I would have gladly paid 1k just to get it. Trust me I spent countless hours and literally hundreds of dollars in long distance calls trying to track this part down from other sources. Volvo does strange things when they spec an engine they like to tweak little things to make it more "theirs" even though the block was NOT actually made by them. This part was available no where on this planet and I was willing to pay expedited freight charges from New Zealand if I had too...

Oh and the above snafu was just one of many similar events with that motor...


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## kptmorgan04 (Apr 10, 2007)

speaking of volvo... anyone want a brand new lift pump that I spent about 2 weeks and around $700 tracking down this summer????  oh the joys of learning by fire


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

The pity is, that the motors are strong. They have just lost sight of what is needed to keep one going. It's a heavy unit, and well-built, but Volvo have simply lost sight of what an owner can afford, and that was 10 years ago.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I would agree. Volvos are fine engines, and well built, but like everything mechanical, they wear and break, and then you pay, and pay...if you can even find the damn part that some guy named Bjorn keeps in Sweden, except he's on a six-week holiday, because Volvo is unionized...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks for all of the help guys. I think I'll measure the engine mounts and see which engine will fit the best.

fair winds, calm seas,

Chuck


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## SYMandalay (Nov 9, 2007)

I have owned two boats with Yanmars - one for twelve years and the present one for ten years. The present one has 3,000 hours on it and runs like new.

I have never had a problem with either engine! Yanmar has been great.

Colin


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## sapo (Nov 6, 2007)

anyone have experience with the marine-ized (marinated?) volkswagon diesels? seems like they might be good for getting non-marine parts.


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## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

I was hoping VW would produce most cost-effective marine diesels, as they make the whole engine. But no, they just make more profit.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

The Pathfinders were under consideration by me as a repowering option, because I thought they were as nice as the TDIs they put in Golfs and Rabbits.

Alas, no. They are Volvos with German accents and the same mark-ups.


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## sapo (Nov 6, 2007)

sad newz. que lastima


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

I found my Yanmar to be extremely reliable and to require very little maintenance.


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

Another vote for Yanmar. I had a Westerbeke 18 with a glow plug problem brand new (fixed easily) for 3 years. Next a Yanmar 3GM30 new for 6 years (in a c320) that I liked except for the fact that I had to unbolt and move the coolant pump out of the way to access the raw water impellor - don't know if the 3YM30's that they are now putting in the c320's have the same impellor access issue. Now I'm a couple years into a 8 year old Yanmar 4JH2 that runs perfectly and starts in the spring after winter layup as if it was just shut off.


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## HoffaLives (Feb 19, 2007)

sapo said:


> anyone have experience with the marine-ized (marinated?) volkswagon diesels? seems like they might be good for getting non-marine parts.


this might be a little out there, but vw's venerable aircooled fuel injected two litre might work well in a boat. they take up very little space, are torquey as hell, don't need a raw water cooling system, parts are as cheap as it comes and you can get them anywhere. you'd have to provide some ductwork for air exchange, but you sure would have a one of a kind auxiliary


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

We cruised for for 15 years with a Westerbeke 4-107 and for the last 8 years with a Yanmar 4JH4E. Both engines served me well, but my choice would be the Yanmar by performance, maintenance and cost. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Westerbeke*

In my opinion I would go for the westerbeke. This is a Mitsubishi based engine. The K3D if I'm correct. For years I'm working with these engines as a mechanic and it happens to be a very reliable engine. The yanmar engines are also reliable but a bit more expensive as it comes to spareparts. And after a few years they always seems to have a bit more problems than the mitsubishi based engines.

The mitsubishi block is worldwide used by a lot of agriculture and industrial products so spareparts are widely available.
The mitsubishi block is also available by other brands. Such as Solé Diesel (Spanish) and Vetus (Dutch). I don't know how the prices are in the US, but in Europe they are a lot cheaper then Westerbeke.


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## Robby Barlow (Apr 23, 2006)

I think you should first look at where the engine will be placed. Most engines have different spec's and they have to be properly supported if you don't want problems in the future. So measure up the distances between the engine mounts, and then, if possible, find an engine to suit the existing dimensions, that will be a lot cheaper than trying to do it the other way around.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Yanmar would be my choice. We have the predecessor to the engine you are looking for 25 year old 3GM30. Runs line a charm with over 4000 hrs.

Footprint is usally smaller than the Westy and lighter. My second choice if I wasnt going with the Yanmar would be the Westy> Engines are usually only as reliable as you maintain them.

Good luck


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## blubaju (Aug 26, 2006)

*yanmar again 3YM30*

3YM30 Yanmar do have glowplugs now and unfortunately no more decompression. I am just installing 2 in my new catamaran. Those engines are assembled in Europe, but the block is used for agricultural and industrial machines too, eg, my old boat had 2 3GM30 and only 2 sets of original oil filters as I did not find them anywhre in remote places in Asia, but all other agricultural copies worked perfectly. Other spareparts I never needed in all nine years, engine still running nice. VERY IMPORTANT, after every few hours of running low speed you MUST burn out the build-up, just run at full load for a 10 to 20 minutes. Some other nice advice: www yanmarhelp com (Please add the dots, sailnet does not me permission to post links). No, I am not related to them, but I like that informative page, maybe it helped my engines to last longer ;-)


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Thanks bucho - I've wondered if there was another source for Westerbeke parts. This is my 2nd Westerbeke (W33). On my last boat, we had a W13. Both great engines, but $425 for a water pump is steep! At the risk of going off topic, do you know of a web site where I can crossreference the W33 to a Mitsubishi model? I'm sure that others would find this of use too.

Thanks.


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## stevemoss (Feb 1, 2008)

*Westerbeke non-marine spares*

Hi everybody,

We have a Cabo Rico here in the UK, fitted with a Westerbeke 52 engine. I noted that at least one of you had this model, and mentioned that non-marine parts were available, so I was wondering if you know on which engine it is based? At the moment ours is running perfectly, but you never know.

If anyone does have any information I would be most grateful to hear from you.

Many thanks

Steve Moss


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## Shortman (Feb 12, 2006)

*Yanmar 3GMF*

in my 85 Pearson 34 is original and still in (knock on wood) quite good condition. As someone said, what's available for local service? Yanmar is easy to work on if you do your own, parts don't seem excessively $$. 3GMF is 3 cylinder 21 hp. My 85 (coincidence) Yanmar tractor is 2 cylinder 14 hp, essentially same engine less one cylinder, parts no cheaper. I'm a Yanmar fan although if re-powering I would investigate quieter, like the Beta (Kubota) I think. Not sure if anyone's quieter claims hold water.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

stevemoss said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> We have a Cabo Rico here in the UK, fitted with a Westerbeke 52 engine. I noted that at least one of you had this model, and mentioned that non-marine parts were available, so I was wondering if you know on which engine it is based? At the moment ours is running perfectly, but you never know.
> 
> ...


After a lot of time spent online and mucking about in bookstores that sell shop manuals, I have come to the conclusion that the Mazda R2/S2 diesel found in early '80s B2200 and Ford Ranger pickups is the same engine (minus heat exchanger and water pump) as not only the Westerbeke W-52 but also the Perkins 4.135, which wasn't a particularly popular model for Perkins.

Rebuild kits for Mazda B2200 engines exist as they were very popular in Australia and, being light-duty diesels in a country largely without rain or snow, a 25 year old pickup is still in many cases in daily use.

Here's a Mazda R2 2.2L diesel:










and here's my Westerbeke W-52










I am still sourcing rebuild kits, but I would like to just replace from Westerbeke the specifically marine bits.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Valiente specifically but anyone else re Diesel engine usage.

Earlier in this thread you talked about diesels not liking light usage. 

Now pardon my ignorance here, I am not a mechanical wizard by any strecth of the imagination, but when I have heard the term "light usage" I have always taken it to mean "low stress usage". By that I mean running without load, as in sitting on mooring and letting it plod along in neutral to charge the batteries. 

You seem to be using the term to describe running engine for short periods of time.

Am I wrong or are we both right ?

Cheers


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

We are both right. In my understanding of the issue, diesel engines are inherently higher compression than gasoline engines in that the source of their combustion cycle is not due to spark but due to crushingly high pressures that ignite the atomized diesel...and you know the rest.

The metals from which diesel blocks, rings, rods, cranks and heads are built are correspondingly heavier (in most applications) than a gas engine of similar output. Hence, very few diesel aircraft engines.

The heat from the combustion causes the metal of the block and the moving bits to expand in time, and diesels tend to run most efficiently and with the least wear on their components when run "up to temperature" and kept at a constant RPM. This is ideal for ships, and less so for sailboats. Idling is wearing because the engine isn't heating up quickly enough to make the (cold) oil sufficiently viscous, and thus unnecessary wear occurs. Conversely, roaring out of the slip, going head to wind and then shutting down means uneven heat radiation through the block, even more cold, thick oil not getting to the places where thin, hot oil should be, and you haven't made a lot of amps.

I try to motor sail for at least one hour until I see the oil PSI drop from 65 to 50 PSI, and the coolant temperature get to 170 F, both of which are standard operation values for my 52 HP four-cylinder.

Now, if you already have a hot engine, and wish to shut off for an hour, you can do so, because the thermal mass of the engine block will keep everything warm for some time. After running at load, I sometimes throttle right back to 1,000 RPM...but _I keep the prop in gear._... and "motor sail" when I could be sailing, as the couple of litres I'll burn are worth it to run full lights, the fridge, the radio, etc. at night and because I anticipate a relatively short run. Were I going for a two-hour evening sail in May's typically cold waters, I would keep the engine on, for instance, because two cold starts and short runs on the same cold day are hard on the gear.

If I'm going for a 12-hour passage with decent wind, I will run for Hour One and Hour Eleven, and shut down for the rest of the time, assuming I don't need to make much in the way of alternator amps.

The same techniques are good for gas engines, but to a far lesser degree and sometimes for reasons surrounding the pollution from a cold engine and starter wear and tear. Gas engines are largely out of favour for sailboats, which is strange, because for evening and weekend sailors, they make a lot of sense, being intrinsically less prone to damage from starting and stopping in short, "head-to-wind" timeframes.

Hope that helps. If you must motor a diesel, motor until the thing's toasty, and keep idling and revving out of gear to a minimum.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Thanks V.

I thought that was the case. Off the mooring we are fine. Its always a pain sailing from where we moor to the Harbour Bridge particularly in the area near the bridge which is a dead spot for wind and is riddled with ferries and small commercial craft. As a result we usually motor sail until we clear the Opera House which gives the batteries a good charge and the engine a good run.

Unfortunately Raven doesn't have solar or wind charging which means if we sit at anchor for a few days we need to run engine to charge batteries. If we weren't selling her we would replace the duff solar panel. 

cheers


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

If you need to charge batteries, TDW, lift the anchor and run at 2,600 RPM out to sea to pump out the holding tanks (to whatever distance offshore is applicable in Oz). In other words, give it a workout going and coming back so everything is thoroughly warmed up.

You might want to consider, in lieu of solar, or in addition to new panels, one of the easily lugged Honda generators on deck for "spot charging". See related threads on these units for the pros and cons.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Valiente,
Agreed but when I'm in sloth mode raising the anchor is a bit too much like work.  
As I said if we were not aiming to sell Raven later this year I'd simply go solar, indeed, we plan on replacing the new boat's single solar panel with two so will probably transfer the single to Raven as she has all the gear installed just no panel. 
Cheers


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## wkw (Nov 3, 2017)

Westerbekes are cheaper for a reason...comparing a 27hp Westerbeke to a 27hp Yanmar, The Yanmar wins for less noise from the muffler, less vibration, less room taken in the engine compartment, more refined design, easier starting, easier to work on and increases the resale value of the boat. If you look at smaller catamarans powered with the Westerbeke, you'll find most prefer to pull out the westerbeast and repower with an outboard honda. Another thing to think about is the Westerbeke will accept non marine engine parts from the local car parts store....very awesome for the PO looking for cheap fixes...maybe not for the next owner as the engine could be a Frankenstein. I'm willing to deal with the logistics of getting the (same make) sailboat with a Yanmar home through 600 miles of waterways than buy it with a Westerbeke located 3 miles from my home port.


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