# offshore insurance tips?



## dadio917 (Apr 4, 2011)

Starting to prep for CA to Hawaii to North West. Need to find offshore insurance as boat US wont cover. Any tips on companies? or brokers in CA?
thanks


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I can't say for sure in the Pacific, but I know of sailors who use Pantaenius insurance in the Atlantic. Be sure to distinguish between the European and US company and whether that matters to you. I have a Travelers policy that allows for offshore passages. I'm required to have 3 capable crew members when some distance from shore, I think it's 250 miles.


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## dadio917 (Apr 4, 2011)

Good point about crew....there will only be two of us.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Many have a hard time getting offshore coverage for a variety of reason. Terms, like crew size are one. Others can related to the boat itself, the skippers experience, time of year, all sorts of things. For what it's worth, I understand Traveler's won't insure a vessel below 40ft LOA offshore.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Dont let insurance destroy your dreams.
Ive never had insurance when offshore. Hey, and look at it this way, if you are offshore and something happens that would be an insurance claim likely you wont be able to sign the form  



:cut_out_animated_em


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

As MArk wrote... an incident offshore is likely a total loss and a fair chance you'll be a goner too and never see the cash. Perhaps insurance may be handy if you are cruising locally.. say in the Caribe.

But the best insurance is to stay clear of anything hard wherever you sail.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I think it's true that an offshore loss is most likely a total loss. That's probably why coverage is harder to get. 

However, I'm questioning whether the crew is as doomed as described. There are plenty of stories of rescues, where the vessel is necessarily abandon. If the crew carries a liferaft and EPIRB, I'm further not sure the odds are against a rescue. 

While anecdotal, I believe I read about more rescues than I read about missing vessels/crew. Both happen.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Several obvious issues.
If you have insurance they determine when you can sail. Unusually this is not an issue but in recent years windows have been weird and personally have wanted to go south before insurance allowed.
If you have a loan insurance is obligate. Suck it up.
If you want to go into a marina for repairs or provisioning many now require you carry insurance. 
Terms and expense report insurance change year to year. If you are a US documented boat and US citizen you will be directed to Pantaenius US. Apparently due to our litigious nature they set up a company just for us. Up side is you have “standing “ in US courts which means settlement maybe faster. I’m aware of other cruisers who had to wait extremely prolonged times with international Pantaenius.
I have Pantaenius. I spent the extra money to get decreased restrictions. Basically my only restriction is to stay out of hurricane zones during hurricane seasons. I found it was hard when I first started cruising with initially having to have crew vetted by insurance (not only number) but now they don’t even ask anything about crew.


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## dadio917 (Apr 4, 2011)

not looking for a discussion about insurance or not. I'm just looking for names.

Turned in an app to Pantaenius. Hopefully will find a couple others.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

dadio917 said:


> please don't turn my thread into a discussion about insurance or not. I'm just looking for names.
> 
> Turned in an app to Pantaenius. Hopefully will find a couple others.


I am with Pantaneous - Australia.
Yes, since recently you need to go with a company of your boats registration.
The good bit is Pantaneous is one of the few world wide. So if you US policy needs a claim while you are in, say, the Mediterranean you do it through your own country but they use the resources of the country you are in.

Whats most important is you only ever get the cover for the areas you are actually in right now or are heading into. For example if the USA is in your coverage area the premiums will be higher than if the coverage area is only the Caribbean.

As a single hander I am not covered more than 25nms from the closest coast. Thats fine by me.


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## boatsurgeon (Dec 6, 2018)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Dont let insurance destroy your dreams.
> Ive never had insurance when offshore. Hey, and look at it this way, if you are offshore and something happens that would be an insurance claim likely you wont be able to sign the form
> 
> :cut_out_animated_em


What if you run into someone else, hole and sink their boat, and cause them the loss of their life savings?

"Self insured" to the tune you can (and would) hand over a couple million to cover their loss?

In my opinion, if one can't afford liability insurance to protect others in the boating community from their actions, they simply can't afford to boat.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

boatsurgeon said:


> What if you run into someone else, hole and sink their boat, and cause them the loss of their life savings?
> 
> "Self insured" to the tune you can (and would) hand over a couple million to cover their loss?
> 
> In my opinion, if one can't afford liability insurance to protect others in the boating community from their actions, they simply can't afford to boat.


I said offshore. 
That means offshore 25 miles. 
Anyway I am quite able to self insure for my exploits.

Thank you.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Surprisingly Geico may cover you. Have friend on sistership using them with pretty good terms.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

dadio-
I'm surprised no one has yet said "Call IMIS". 
They've been earning praise for something like 40 years now. Professionals, not just looking to sell weasel policies at come-on prices.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

We have been using IMIS for a number of years. They really work with us on where we are cruising and adjust accordingly. When we wanted to do a 2 handed crossing - no issue. When we wanted to do the Black Sea they did limit their exposure in the far eastern Black Sea and going there cost us something like an extra $100usd a month and we could only be in Russia for a month anyway. 

When we wanted to come to Israel they worked out something for us and we will talk with them if we decide to go into the Red Sea this spring. 

We simply love IMIS.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Chuck who is your agent?


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## dadio917 (Apr 4, 2011)

Outbound - Geico (Boat US) will not cover our trip. We have them now (and for many years) and I've tried twice. They will only cover us if we're in a group like transpac.

I have contacted an IMIS agent although have not gotten anything yet. Also Blue Water Insurance and Pantaenius. 

Chuck I would be interested in your agent as well.


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## svphoenix (Nov 11, 2012)

Yes, Chuck, who is your agent for IMIS? We contacted Jacklines, IMIS recently and their rate is apparently 4% these days, up from 1.5% not long ago. This makes it prohibitive for us, but may be the reality today. They do have good rules for cruising, though, not as proscriptive as some.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

outbound said:


> Chuck who is your agent?


We work with Rachel - not sure she is still selling or not but she can direct you to the proper place.

[email protected]

www.gowrie.com/imis


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

I've gone bare a few times.

Around marinas (I'm not there to watch the boat) and coastal (other boats do dumb stuff) insurance is a good deal. 

Offshore I feel as though if I cannot stay safe for a few days or a week, then I have my answer; I should not go. If I'm comfortable with the risk... then chances are I don't need insurance. I think part of it is I've seen a lot of abandonment for reasons I did not think were very good; steering loss in moderate weather is just one example.

It also depends on whether you can stand the financial hit. At the end of the day the calculation is this: you believe there is less than one chance in Y that you will loose the boat, they want to charge X% of the hull value for the crossing. I can't imagine heading out if I though the chance was more than 1:100, and they're going to change more the 1%. Simple.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

pdqaltair said:


> I've gone bare a few times.
> 
> Around marinas (I'm not there to watch the boat) and coastal (other boats do dumb stuff) insurance is a good deal.
> 
> ...





RegisteredUser said:


> You should write a book, The World According to BS.
> Maybe offer some life coaching seminars, too.
> Anything to help, right.....


That is a less than helpful comment. It is snide, rude, and condescending. Is this not against the forum rules?


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