# Canvas Costs



## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Specifically, a dodger.

I've been in contact with some canvas shops, and these guys have been rather evasive on cost estimates.

All I'm looking for, is a very rough number to start budgeting for.
I have a frame and old canvas to use as a template.
Would anyone like to opine on what an ordinary dodger on a 30 foot boat should cost?

Like I said, just a very rough number. I'm not trying to nail it down to exact dollars and cents until I'm ready to proceed with construction.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks, that's more or less what I'm looking for.
I'd love to hear from other 30 foot owners who've had dodgers made.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

It's a Pearson 30, which is common enough but all of my local P30 owners have inherited their dodgers. No one I know has had to pay to build one yet.

The local canvas shops have probably built more than a few of them over the years, but they don't seem to want to answer any of my questions. They just want me to fill out an order form and commit to hiring them to build the dodger without any sort of estimate that I can use for comparison shopping.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

"They just want me to fill out an order form and commit to hiring them to build the dodger without any sort of estimate that I can use for comparison shopping. "

Hopefully someone else will jump and explain the difference between quote and estimate.
Me thinks estimate is a guess and not binding on the supplier. A quote is a fixed cost and is binding on the supplier. Pretty sure you want a quote and not an estimate. Also I find it strange that during winter, which I thought was an off time for canvas shops, that the suppliers are so non cooperative .


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## captainmurph (Feb 12, 2009)

BubbleheadMd said:


> All I'm looking for, is a very rough number to start budgeting for.
> I have a frame and old canvas to use as a template.


Questions:


Does the existing canvas seem to fit well but is just torn and tired?
Does the shape of the existing dodger work for you or would you like modifications in overall size?
What would you like in the way of windows or other opening panels?

If you PM me, I'l be happy to work up a quote for you in your choice of Sunbrella or Surlast colors.

Murph

Mascom Canvas Crafts
S/V Amalia
1965 Cal 30
Muskegon, MI


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

My dodger originally cost $1,000 for the Morgan, however, if I would have to replace it, I think I would make it myself. I talked with a canvas guy at the marina last summer about that and he gave me a quote of $2,500, which I thought was insane. I then looked up the cost of materials and it was under $300 for the canvas, clear vinyl and zippers combined. I only paid $700 for the full enclosure which is all clear vinyl, lots of snaps and Velcro when I had it made two years ago. Try pricing the sunbrella online and you'll be amazed at the price variations for the same material from different suppliers.

Good luck,

Gary


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I have never had a canvas place let me out the door for less than $300, even for a simple sun cover. Anything will probably cost you twice what you were expecting. A dodger, with windows, zippers and reinforcement where needed is not going to be a cheap project. No canvas maker I've ever worked with will use the old one for a template; it has stretched and therefor probably would not make a good template, so add the cost of a visit to the boat for measuring.
I wish you luck, but it does take a talented canvas person to design and fabricate a good, strong and tight dodger. There is nothing worse than dumping a grand or so into a saggy dodger with windows so wrinkled that you get seasick looking through them, at the dock.


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## Shockwave (Feb 4, 2014)

East Coast Dodgers


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Captainmeme said:


> "They just want me to fill out an order form and commit to hiring them to build the dodger without any sort of estimate that I can use for comparison shopping. "
> 
> Hopefully someone else will jump and explain the difference between quote and estimate.
> *Me thinks estimate is a guess and not binding on the supplier.* A quote is a fixed cost and is binding on the supplier. *Pretty sure you want a quote *and not an estimate. Also I find it strange that during winter, which I thought was an off time for canvas shops, that the suppliers are so non cooperative .


You are incorrect. I am seeking an ESTIMATE, as you have defined it. I am asking for a GUESS, not a QUOTE, to bind the supplier.

Like my OP said- Just rough numbers that I can talk to shops about.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

captainmurph said:


> Questions:
> 
> 
> Does the existing canvas seem to fit well but is just torn and tired?
> ...


I appreciate what you're offering, but I prefer to work with local sources.
If there is a problem with the dodger, the hassles and costs of dealing with a distant supplier are more than I want to deal with.

Thanks for the offer though.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Shockwave said:


> East Coast Dodgers


This looks very tempting and convenient, but I'll decline for the same reason-

Distant supplier, too difficult to get support if it doesn't fit properly.

It looks like costs will be around $1000, even if I supply my own frame and worn canvas as a template.


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

I have had really good luck with Marvin Imhoff of Charm City Marine Canvas in Baltimore. Very high quality product and he has been very willing to come to the boat and talk through various options and figure out what I want. Also got the work done within the original time frame estimated and has been willing to stand by his product post installation. I did not have to commit to anything for a quote or to have him come out. Not sure he works down your way, but worth a shot and if not he might be able to recommend someone who does.


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

travlineasy said:


> My dodger originally cost $1,000 for the Morgan, however, if I would have to replace it, I think I would make it myself. I talked with a canvas guy at the marina last summer about that and he gave me a quote of $2,500, which I thought was insane. I then looked up the cost of materials and it was under $300 for the canvas, clear vinyl and zippers combined. I only paid $700 for the full enclosure which is all clear vinyl, lots of snaps and Velcro when I had it made two years ago. Try pricing the sunbrella online and you'll be amazed at the price variations for the same material from different suppliers.


I do a lot of my own canvas work but would not recommend taking on a self-build of a dodger to anyone not well experienced with a sewing and who hadn't first successfully pulled off other less ambitious canvas projects. A dodger has a lot of complex curves and being off by even a little can make a huge difference in fit and taughtness. A bimini that's a little loose may be OK but not so much with a dodger. Having successfully made a replacement bimini skin for my last boat, I still wouldn't attempt a dodger on my own.

As for prices, I easily had at least 40 hours of labor in my bimini project. If a seasoned professional can do it in a third of that time, it's still around 14 hours at whatever the going rate is. When viewed from that perspective, the prices for professional work are not all that hard to understand. Like most things with a boat, it's more the labor than the materials that are the killer.


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## BoxedUp (Nov 22, 2006)

BubbleheadMd said:


> Would anyone like to opine on what an ordinary dodger on a 30 foot boat should cost?
> 
> Like I said, just a very rough number. I'm not trying to nail it down to exact dollars and cents until I'm ready to proceed with construction.





Shockwave said:


> East Coast Dodgers





BubbleheadMd said:


> It looks like costs will be around $1000,


Looks like your question has been answered...


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Bubblehead-
You're looking to do business with a businessperson, and the good news is that the folks who can't figure out how to do an estimate have just disqualified themselves before you got stuck with them.

You should be able to take some photos of the existing dodger, some measurements of the main dimensions and panels, and tell a shop "Its this big, it has xx snaps and xx zippers, the zippers are number? and xx long, two way. Can you get back to me in a couple of days with an estimate for that?"

Someone who knows what they are doing should have no problem with that. Someone who can't plan ahead that way, probably will need to rework, adjust, or get something wrong on the dodger anyway.

Personally I like a Tilley dodger in good weather, and a wool "jeep" cap when it gets colder. And jeep caps were damned hard to find when I got mine!(G)


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## Jiminri (Aug 26, 2012)

Bubblehead,
Have you tried Galesville Canvas? We wanted to have some side shade curtains made that would attach to the bimini when the sun was low and in our eyes (at anchor). Vicki Swain met us at the boat, looked at the situation, and talked about what we wanted. A few days later she gave us a price. We agreed, so she came back out to measure and is making them now.

I haven't seen the final product yet, but my boat's PO used Galesville Canvas for most of his canvas work.

On a previous boat, I got an estimate from Quantuum Sails in Annapolis for a bimini--frame and canvas. Never went through with the deal because I sold the boat first.

So, I'm rather puzzled why the shops are not giving you estimates. 

Good luck,
Jim


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

First I wouldn't trust any "experienced" canvas guy who couldn't at least give me a ballpark estimate. 

Have you tried asking around the marina? If your existing dodger is in decent enough shape to be used as a pattern you might be able to find someone who could use it as a template for a new one. 

I found out about a guy (since passed away) who was retired and taking in work to keep busy. He didn't want to come out to the boat because he didn't get around all that well. We brought him our old dodger and he made us a copy for $300. He gave me directions for fitting it and loaned me the tool for installing the snaps. It fits nicely and has held up well. 

I'd imagine that in Annapolis there are a few retired folks and/or cruisers who are doing canvas work.


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## Seand50 (May 11, 2014)

I bought a new dodger with side curtains last season for my Beneteau 361. I used the old poles and it cost about $1,800. I was able to get an estimate from a couple of places before deciding. Hope that helps. 

Sean


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks for the recommendation on Galesville canvas. I'll check with them.


One of the canvas shops I visited, sent a representative to my house last night, with no warning, no phone call.

He was just sitting in my driveway, waiting for me. I worked two hours late yesterday, so I was very late getting home, so he could have ended up sitting there for quite a while.

I brought the old dodger out of my garage and let him measure it. He said he'll get back to me with an estimate. I appreciate that, but I didn't appreciate the unannounced visit.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

man weird stuff these days...as usual no place is perfect...down south we had the ability to mimick and copy anything what we lacked was stuff like good zippers and sewing thread

however we did have sunbrella 

up here its the opposite yuou have everything but getting a good copier seems to be few and far between unless you bite the bullet and just fill out a form

I agree what you need is a GUESSTIMATE first

nothing binding if nobody in your area can or wants to do that EVEN IN WINTER then looking farther away isnt such a bad idea or option...

you can just mail the stuff back and get it tweaked here or there if you do need to do so...

im in the same boat and need one for my boat...Ill have the old one sent to me here and have a good shop make one for me and Ill just mail it back down

beleive me its LESS of a hassle then trying to tell someone who doesnt have a clue what a dodger is over the phone or email despite having the old one available

like I said my issue was down there the lack pf parts and hardware...

good luck btw


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Depends on where you are, and what you want.

Do you want a new frame for the dodger? Do you want StrataGlass, Plastipane, Crystal Clear, Kal Glass, or will clear vinyl be good enough?

I paid over $5K for the dodger on my O'day 35 which I keep in RI. The builder came to my boat, and measured the dodger to fit *me*, so that I did not have to duck or stretch in order to look over/under the frame or top. I also know that our friend Maine Sail paid over $5K for the dodger and bimini on his Catalina 36 in Maine four years earlier. Both were built by the same guy with the same materials.

Specifically;

1" Polished Stainless Steel Frame and hardware.
Welded grab bar
Slot Track (not snaps) for Mounting the Dodger
Removable Center Front Window
Strataglass Windows
Reinforced stress areas
Adjustable Support Struts (actually work like fancy turnbuckles)
Mesh Pockets w/ 2 compartments on the inside

Result;


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

eherlihy said:


> Depends on where you are, and what you want.
> 
> Do you want a new frame for the dodger? Do you want StrataGlass, or will Vinyl be good enough?
> 
> I paid over $5K for the dodger on my O'day 35 which I keep in RI. I also know that our friend Maine Sail paid over $5K for the dodger and bimini on his Catalina 36 in Maine four years earlier. Both were built by the same guy.


This isn't a case of me complaining about the costs. It's vendors refusing to give even the crudest of estimates. I can't even get rough numbers to complain about!

As for what I want?
I want an exact copy of the old dodger with one possible exception:
"Common Sense" fasteners vs. the old glove snaps.
Plain sunbrella, plain vinyl windows.

Hell, I don't even care if the center window pane unzips like on the old dodger. If I want flow-through, I'll fold the dodger down. The purpose of the dodger is to block cold air, or excessive spray during upwind sailing, so I don't "need" the center window to unzip and roll up.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Two years ago, I got an estimate to have my bimini replaced - $1,000. The only reason I want to replace it is because it is no longer waterproof, and the waterproofing sprays just don't cut it - it still leaked live a sieve. Now, when it rains, I just bungee a blue poly tarp over it, works just fine. For what it's worth, prices are all over the board with this kind of stuff. I met an awning guy near Baltimore that said if I wanted the new bimimi during the dead of winter, $650 would cover it. In June, when he's really busy, the price would be twice as much.

Gary


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

I took my Cal 33 dodger in to a shop in Amityville Long Island that had been recommended by friends for restitching. I was hoping to get a few more years out of it. He said he could restitch for about $75 (which I thought was a bargain), but said the Sunbrella fabric was in good condition and for $300 would replace all zippers, replace all windows, replace top wear cover, restitch everything, etc. essentially making it like new!! He said he could make a new one from the old for about $900. Very low compared to an estimate I had gotten from another shop last year. I saw some of their work while there and it looked very good.

Shop is Sailors Choice. Marine Canvas and Sail Services on Long Island


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

BubbleheadMd said:


> This isn't a case of me complaining about the costs. It's vendors refusing to give even the crudest of estimates. I can't even get rough numbers to complain about!


Well phooey. I've had good experience with both Canvas Creations and Annapolis Custom Yacht Canvas. Very professional and no-surprise estimates. I've also used Quantum Sails for a few things.

Let me know if you need names and numbers.


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

BubbleheadMd said:


> This isn't a case of me complaining about the costs. It's vendors refusing to give even the crudest of estimates. I can't even get rough numbers to complain about!


I unfortunately find this to be the case with a number of marine service providers, often including those who ostensibly are reputable, well known, and touted as "the best". It seems out of every 5 service companies I contact, only about 1 or 2 respond with a positive, can-do attitude, willingness to listen and communicate, reasonable pricing, and an overall enthusiasm for getting the job done in a timely and professional manner. How the rest survive (and sometimes thrive) is a real mystery to me.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

If you have to ask.... you can't afford it.


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

FWIW as I am on the otherwise of the world, but I am after exactly the same thing as you, a simple reskin of our existing dodger on our existing frame.

We have had a estimate of 3k which again was also vague, (despite our boat being moored 300 metres from the guys workshop he didn't have a look but went off emailed pictures. I think it is a case of until I give him the work he doesn't want to dedicate time to it).


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

My research says ballpark $2 -$3000


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Well the experience of folks in this thread includes prices from $300 to $5,000 for a dodger that includes new Sunbrella, zippers & glass on an existing frame and local installers who are less than professional.

Is it any wonder Bubble is frustrated?


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## jimrafford (Jan 7, 2011)

My wife is retired and started a canvas business a couple years ago. The canvas replacement for a mid 30's dodger is around $2500.
Jim


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Yep, the numbers I'm starting to see, are $1500-2500 _for a re-skin._

Honestly, I could see that price if I had nothing at all, (no frame, no template) but this is simply out of my reach for now. Oh well.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

BubbleheadMd said:


> Yep, the numbers I'm starting to see, are $1500-2500 _for a re-skin._
> 
> Honestly, I could see that price if I had nothing at all, (no frame, no template) but this is simply out of my reach for now. Oh well.


I have to agree. That's why I was VERY pleasantly surprised by the quote from Sailors Choice of $300 for a complete redo of my current one or $900 for a new one on the old frame. When I told him I thought it would be more like $2000 or so for a new one, he looked stunned and said that's crazy. And he was very knowledgeable about UV resistant thread, different options for the windows, etc. So nice to find a local shop that does good work at reasonable prices.


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

Gary,

Get some waterproofing spray at a camping store. Put away the blue tarp!


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

JimsCAL said:


> I took my Cal 33 dodger in to a shop in Amityville Long Island that had been recommended by friends for restitching. I was hoping to get a few more years out of it. He said he could restitch for about $75 (which I thought was a bargain), but said the Sunbrella fabric was in good condition and for $300 would replace all zippers, replace all windows, replace top wear cover, restitch everything, etc. essentially making it like new!! He said he could make a new one from the old for about $900. Very low compared to an estimate I had gotten from another shop last year. I saw some of their work while there and it looked very good.
> 
> Shop is Sailors Choice. Marine Canvas and Sail Services on Long Island


sounded great until I looked at their website.


> A new dodger*, bimini*, awning*, or sailcover** could make your next sailing cruise more comfortable and enjoyable for the whole family.
> 
> *Custom dodgers, biminis, and awnings must be installed locally and are available for
> boats located throughout Long Island and the greater New York Metropolitan area only.
> **Sail Covers can be ordered online and shipped worldwide.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

Bubble,
I would say you have reached the point of looking at mail order. When they won't talk to you before the sale you just have to wonder what they will do after the sale. I fully support your desire to do business locally (I was once a local shop owner) but when all you get is a short shrift treatment, then go where you can find service and a product that meets your needs. If nothing else, look at Sailrite kits and their instruction videos. At least on line you can get some quotes.
John


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

eherlihy said:


> If you have to ask.... you can't afford it.


while true this is the reason those companies can be so blase and practically give a rats ass to an otherwise willing new customer

I think its inexcuseable for a canvas shop to not answer back, or give a rough estimate for something they do so much

I mean its like a sailmaker making a sail for a cal 33 but he has no idea what the same spec sail is going to be for a cal 31

well it probably going to be withing $200 bucks of eachother or the same price if its a standard spec sail.

if a dodger maker can do that he is just being an ass...

while 1800 might be pocket change to you to others it might not

I dont think 1800 is either cheap or expensive but I have also seen dodgers made in other countries and other places that might be done the same for much cheaper and just as well made or better.

if companies know that the overall status or thoughts of customers is if you have to ask you cant afford it that means they can act how they act

someone else mentioned it about not really understanding how the other businesses survive?

I often ask that myself all the time especially in other business like the restaurant industry or hotel industry or car mechanics industry etc

sometimes it a bit of necessary evil, some others its a case of customers not knowing what other options you may have and you have $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ so businesses thrive on ignorance...

others survive on being in the right place at the right time, others by word of mouth, others by being reputeable and responsible...etc...etc...

not to rant but canvas work here in the states is aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalll colors of the rainbow...

some are great some are **** and some are **** and charge for gold

thats why sailrite is such a succesful company with their tutorials...people are tired of overpaying for simple canvas work or canvas projects so they take on these projects themselves

yes its a lot of work but a shop has already streamlined the process and already has the equipment...

as usual your experiences may vary


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

BubbleheadMd said:


> Yep, the numbers I'm starting to see, are $1500-2500 _for a re-skin._
> 
> Honestly, I could see that price if I had nothing at all, (no frame, no template) but this is simply out of my reach for now. Oh well.


thats crazy talk

shop around...it also sounds like you best bet is going to be mail order even if its far way

if you have to have it refitted locally on your boat

ANY canvas worker can do that

if you want perfect from the get go thats where if you have to ask you cant afford it applies

apples and oranges

to me a reskin MAX 1k

MAX!


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## Mark1948 (Jun 19, 2007)

Just adding my 2 cents, I had two interior cushions made for my Catalina 27, then sold and bought a Hunter 34 and replaced the all the interior cushions for twice what I paid for 2. Also the Hunter cushion covers were a better fit. The guy also does dodgers as well and other canvas work. I can PM his info if you are interested.


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## masterofnone (Nov 23, 2014)

Look here to get an idea of the time involved in the project. I use this when giving quotes and figure $60 shop rate. Sunbrella is usually around $20 a yard by the time delivery is figured in. Make darn sure ptfe thread is used. Polyester thread will fail long before the sunbrella does then you pay for restitching and have a piece of canvas that leaks and looks bad.

Time standards manual - Marine Fabricator


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Guys, I guess I haven't been clear.

In addition to your experiences, I have also finally got 3 local shops and one mail order shop to give me rough estimates. They are all saying $1500ish to $2500. Well, the mail-order shop was $1150.

I'm not paying a mail-order shop $1150, and then fighting with them when the dodger doesn't arrive/doesn't fit. I would risk $500 on a mail-order venture.

Christian uttered the magic words that I didn't even think of- Sailrite.
I can sew. I'll look at their website and see what they offer.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Hmmmm... consider this:

A Sailrite dodger re-skin kit for my size frame, that includes every snap and zipper that I could ever need, costs $476 from their website.

I could screw it up _twice_, succeeding on the third try, and it would cost me what one dodger from a professional shop costs.

Yes, I have access to a SailRite sewing machine.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

BubbleheadMd said:


> Yes, I have access to a SailRite sewing machine.


Can I borrow it also? *grin*


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Arrr mateys, this is a thread hijack.

So with all the eyes on this thread, anyone know where I can pick up a used stainless steel dodger frame that would fit a 27 foot, 8 foot beam sailboat? And I have dealt with Sailrite for sails, sewing machine and other stuff. I have had excellent service each time and if you whine a bit most of the time you can get a discount.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

SVAuspicious said:


> Can I borrow it also? *grin*


I can ask...


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

Have a look also here. Supplies and machines too

Sunbrella, Marine Canvas, Fabrics, Hardware and Supplies - Sailmaker's Supply


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## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

Given the prices I've seen here and elsewhere, I fully intend to fabricate my own Bimini and (eventually) dodger.
A plain-jane home machine and proper thread should do Sunbrella w/o a pause. Comes down to proper planning and application of good technique, re; darts.folds,hems and padding/atttachments.
It ain't rocket science; but close! 
Determining what/where for hemms, reinforcement and fasteners is allppart of the planning stage. I have all Winter  Fortunately, I have a pile. of Sunbrella material from a fullcover gifted this past season.. It's even (close to) the right color 
Best of luck


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## Shockwave (Feb 4, 2014)

If you decide to make your own I've found Mark Hoods tutorial to be one of the best.

Patterning a California dodger - Marine Fabricator


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## jimrafford (Jan 7, 2011)

Sailrite sells kits and how to videos. Thats how my wife got started.
Jim


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I agree with Paul, sewing canvas is not rocket science. And, you do NOT need a $1,200 sewing machine to sew Sunbrella. I restitched my sail cover using nothing more than a home sewing machine that cost $129 at BJ's Wholesale Club. It did an excellent job.

Cheers,

Gary


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Good luck finding a local vendor. In my experience, these costs can be all over the place and you do not always get what you pay for in canvas work. Experience is key!! You'll find young guys that are hungrier and cost less and old guys that won't take a job unless they make enough to take Friday off. They might both be very good, however, one may be better than the other. No way to tell, but by references.

Now, when it comes to the job itself, there are features you really want. Your zippers should all have an extra flap of canvas over them to limit UV exposure, for example. That's important. The seem where the glass is sewn to the canvas is notorious for growing mold and I know of no way to prevent it, nor clean it easily. You can, however, have a piece of canvas sewn over both sides of that seam, so it can't be seen. These sort of thing would understandably cost a few more bucks, but not the differences I've seen out there.

BTW, I just decided to send my canvas back to its original designer to be remade. They wanted less than half what my local guy wanted. In fact, my local guy gave me three prices over two years. His second price was 80% higher than is first and when he asked me what I was planning and if I remembered his own estimate, he said it was way too low. Geesh.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

what you can do in order to not spend mega bucks on the perfect machine is use the spray someone else posted about for all seams and stitches

I have used it for waterproofing kayak bags and motorcycle jackets and such in fact I bought it for that purpose and not what it was originally intended for

in any case

good luck to all in their canvass endeavours


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Actually Joe, my sewing machine allows you to set the stitch length, stitch tension, and stitch pattern(s). And, it will sew up to 7 thicknesses of denim, which is about the same fabric weight as Sunbrella. In this months Boat U.S. Magazine, they have a great article about dodgers, their repairs and maintenance. They also talk about restitching, and the different threads, one of which would require a very heavy duty machine.

The article also talked about waterproffing, and Sunbrella recommends 303 High Tech Fabric Guard -Fabric Protection for Sunbrella & More

Gary


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## HR28sailor (Feb 11, 2010)

Greetings

Have you considered sewing one yourself? Sailrite has good instructions and kits are available. I build two dodgers from the instructions but purchased the supplies from another supplier. I followed the directions and also read the sewing section in Don Casey's This old boat, took my time a little sewing practice before the project to get the feel of things and my dodger turned out very nice. If your old dodger is still holding its shape you can take a pattern from it. You don't need a special sewing machine. An old singer will do the job. That is how I started. I saved hundreds of dollars as I did a complete enclosure and sail cover. I now have a small canvas business and as a result of the experience of those projects, my sailing colleagues at my yacht club have me quite well employed. 
If you are intent of having one build instead of trying the project yourself, joethecobbler above was in the money on his estimate. You do have choices when it comes to material also. But I would add economy priced material will last if it is cared for. I always suggest to my customers is don't leave it up if you don't need it up. Collapse and cover it. of course this depends on how often the boat is used but if you are like the majority of sailors sitting all week at a mooring or berth then out on the weekend then stowing the canvas is practical. Fulltime maybe not so much but every little bit helps. keep it treated with an inhibitor. The sun is the biggest culprit. the material will eventually deteriorate and every six to ten years the canvas will need to be replaced. I have made covers for my dodger and bimini, when not in use they are covered lashed and stored in place. They are over 6 years old and look as new as the day they were made.


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## nccouple (Jun 11, 2011)

Heres how we did it on the cheap. The local guys near the boat were giving quotes anywhere from $1500 to $2500 for just the spray dodger. I found a local guy near my home doing canvas on lake boats. He used my old patterns and I installed. I got a new spray dogger, wheel cover, wench covers, ladder strap and sail cover with the boat name on the sides. All for $1400.


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## nccouple (Jun 11, 2011)

joethecobbler said:


> $1400 is on the cheap! ok.


Yep sure is. Price out the cost of the sunbrella material. I got the entire boat done.


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## HR28sailor (Feb 11, 2010)

heavy threads with a high tensile strength are great, but here is the rub with them; they are too strong not to mention pricey. it is better if the seam fails than the material. if panel rips you have to replace the panel if you are lucky only one, but most likely the whole dodger would have to be redone. a seam can be repaired easily and much cheaper than the cost of a panel or complete dodger. V92 UV stabilized thread is more than enough. Some things are worth overbuilding not canvas it just wears out too fast.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

^^^^^thats where an engineering frame of mind comes in

what do you prefer something with give or not

think about it

why do you want a dodger thats stringer than the frame

its no wonder yves gelinas designed what to date is the best dodger frame and canvas combo

yet not many do it

you want a dodger that gives way when its really rough and not destroy your coaming and or mounts...

if its too rough out there you want a quick release system to flatten down the dodger in seconds and be low profile

there are many theories out there

but cruisers more often than not have no idea how CUMBERSOME a dodger is when the sit hits the fan

windage alone is enough to cause havoc

anywhoo


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I just took another look at the article in Boat US Magazine about dodgers, which states "Sunbrella has long specified 303 Aerospace Fabric Guard to restore repellency." They recommend using two coats for best results.

White po9lyester thread is the default choice of most canvas shops for restitching the dodger or bimini. However, the article states that this thread suffers mightily in the sun. The best alternative is PTFE thread, which can be difficult to find, and very expensive, and impossible for a regular sewing machine to sew with because it binds. The article recommends using "black polyester thread, which cost the same as white, but it will last years longer due to the substantial UV protection the black pigment affords."

Good information,

Gary


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

travlineasy said:


> The best alternative is PTFE thread, which can be difficult to find, and very expensive, and impossible for a regular sewing machine to sew with because it binds.Gary


I sew PTFE thread on an industrial machine. However, I have used PTFE on a Pfaff 130 home sewing machine with no problems. That might be because the Pfaff 130 is a rotary hook machine. Most home sewing machines are oscillating hook machines. The link further below describes a problem with forming a loop that might be more of a problem on oscillating hook machines.

Tenara PTFE thread can be purchased from Sailrite. It is expensive. However, PTFE thread is essentially impervious to UV, and worth the expense I think.

My experience with PTFE thread is that it is quite slick, and I run it over and around every friction possibility in the needle-thread path. The link below has tips for using Tenara PTFE thread.

Gore Fibers


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Our canvas is sewn with gortex thread (that's PTFE if I'm not mistaken). After 10 years, absolutely no UV worn threads. As I'm having it remade, the shop says the thread will outlast the canvas. They were right the first time.


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## oceangirl (Sep 17, 2008)

We just had a dodger made from scratch for a 34' boat. The total was $2800.


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

PTFE thread is great for fabric-to-fabric stitching that you’d have little reason to ever want to take apart – seams, edge bindings, hems, etc. Zippers don’t last long enough to justify high-strength thread. I’m in the process of replacing all the zippers on my bimini. They were sewn with V-92 polyester. Once I get the ends cut free, the thread is so weak I can just rip the whole zipper off by hand. The thread and the zipper had about the same lifespan, which is a good thing. It’s awesome not having to cut the old zippers out one stitch at a time. If they had been sewn with PTFE it would have made the replacement process ten times harder with no appreciable benefit during the working life of the zipper. Eisen/strata glass windows are similar as far as not lasting as long as the fabric itself.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

4arch said:


> ......Eisen/strata glass windows are similar as far as not lasting as long as the fabric itself.


This is exactly what doomed my enclosure in the end. I've replaced several zippers and stitched a backing to the bimini where the bows cross, as the friction point was wearing. However, I slapped a jib sheet against the strata glass on the dodger, when it was cool and more brittle, and busted a hole in it.

The cost to replace the strata was not justified. The dodger is in three pieces and replacing just one would look awful. As in, look too much better than the rest. I think just the glass was nearly a grand. It was time for a remake.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

bubblehead are you interested in making a semi hard dodger? they are quite nice in my opinion and are great for adding a flexible solar panel on top...it also isnt as expensive to make really

just some nice marine ply bent to shape and glassed over and faired...then you can add sides and a nice rolling forward panel that can be rolled up...you also can add 2 grab bars on each side of the hard panel as strongholds...

just a thought


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

4arch said:


> PTFE thread is great for fabric-to-fabric stitching that you'd have little reason to ever want to take apart - seams, edge bindings, hems, etc. Zippers don't last long enough to justify high-strength thread. I'm in the process of replacing all the zippers on my bimini. They were sewn with V-92 polyester. Once I get the ends cut free, the thread is so weak I can just rip the whole zipper off by hand. The thread and the zipper had about the same lifespan, which is a good thing. It's awesome not having to cut the old zippers out one stitch at a time. If they had been sewn with PTFE it would have made the replacement process ten times harder with no appreciable benefit during the working life of the zipper. Eisen/strata glass windows are similar as far as not lasting as long as the fabric itself.


Two suggestions...

I've had good luck with RIRI zippers, they show no sign of degradation... And, zippers shouldn't be exposed to UV to begin with...

Covers for eisenglass that are in place whenever the boat is sitting are worth their weight in gold, and will greatly extend the life of the panels, they should easily last the life of the fabric, or beyond... Anyone with a dodger should have covers for the glass, IMHO, and they're one of the easiest canvas projects there is...

Tenara thread is definitely the way to go, IMHO, well worth the money... I've switched to the heavy weight Tenara in the last year, that stuff is awesome... Of course, an ordinary machine won't handle it, and it does take a bit of getting used to using. The Sailrite video linked to earlier is very helpful, and you definitely need to mount the cone of thread horizontally on a roller 'toilet paper style' to eliminate the tendency of the thread to twist...


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

christian.hess said:


> bubblehead are you interested in making a semi hard dodger?


I've thought about it, but... no.

I just want to keep it simple, light and easy to detach and store.
I have an inherent dislike of external canvas structures and I'm only bending to the dodger because my dislike of winter has finally exceeded my dislike of a dodger.

Once the dodger is semi-rigid, then the dodger stays up all the time.
Then you have a bimini made.
Then you have the connecter between them made.
They stay up all the time...
Then you start thinking about an "oxygen tent" full enclosure.
It's bad enough that I'm even considering a dodger at all.

Canvas is evil, and it should be killed with fire.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

I am planning to attempt making a semi hard dodger this winter using the method they use to make surf boards. Who knows how it will come out but it should be interesting nonetheless


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

" Canvas is evil, and it should be killed with fire. "

I know a man.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

T37Chef said:


> I am planning to attempt making a semi hard dodger this winter using the method they use to make surf boards. Who knows how it will come out but it should be interesting nonetheless


post pics bud!!

what foam will you be using? balsa cored?


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## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

U rang?


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

BubbleheadMd said:


> I've thought about it, but... no.
> 
> I just want to keep it simple, light and easy to detach and store.
> I have an inherent dislike of external canvas structures and I'm only bending to the dodger because my dislike of winter has finally exceeded my dislike of a dodger.
> ...


LOL! Yup, definitely a problem with most dodgers, today...

Once they go up, they _NEVER_ come down...


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> This is exactly what doomed my enclosure in the end. I've replaced several zippers and stitched a backing to the bimini where the bows cross, as the friction point was wearing. However, I slapped a jib sheet against the strata glass on the dodger, when it was cool and more brittle, and busted a hole in it.
> 
> The cost to replace the strata was not justified. The dodger is in three pieces and replacing just one would look awful. As in, look too much better than the rest. I think just the glass was nearly a grand. It was time for a remake.


I had a 3 month old convertible top on my Miata, and it was cold and I had a birthday present on the back deck, hit a bump and it bounced and put a hole right in the window. Grr. It was actually an inexpensive top and the warranty specifically excluded the plastic windows. If I had spent more money on the top and got the upgraded vinyl it would have been covered. But when a car has over 200,000 miles you just start to cut corners!


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## Boogie Nights (Oct 15, 2014)

I do all kinds of canvas work (for friends and club mates -NOT touting for business its my hobby) So I have a trade account with a British supplier that actually supplies all the big fancy canopy makers as well. 
Its a 100% mark up on materials I was surpised to see when I first started buying from them.

So last summer when I wanted a new spray hood (Ithink you guys call it a dodger) I bought some sauleda canvas at £10/$18 per meter trade price (not sunbrella which is around £25/$40 per meter)
I think it took around 5 or 6 meters of canvas, several zips a couple of meters of plastic window to make my own canopy for my 36 foot sail boat.
total money cost to me: roughly £75/$135
BUT, the time to make it, I did mine in a rush and it took two very long evenings and through the night sessions to make it, probably 24 hours worth of cutting and sewing.

If you think about how long it takes to make something like a canopy, with all the technical bits and the fitting and so on, you are looking at the best part of three to five days. I'm not sure what someone doing sewing professionally in a fully fledged company earns as an hourly rate, but I'd imagine that £200/$350 is fair for a full day.
if you add all that up, three days plus materials, you are looking at anywhere from $1000-$1800 to make a canopy. (depending on its complexity and fittings and which canvas it is made from)
So the prices Ive seen on this thread seem quite reasonable to me.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I wonder, if the old canvas was simply old and leaky, but still strong enough to carry on, whether you could just spray it with that rubber-in-a-can stuff to put a totally waterproof coating on it? I've seen it sold in red, white, medium blue as well as the black stuff, so you wouldn't have to do it black either.

But given an accurate and complete set of measurements (and I understand that the bigger shops keep everything in CAD files and cut all the panels by CAD/CAM) it is amazing what a truly professional "seamstress" can accomplish, as opposed to some duffer casually sitting and sewing.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

travlineasy said:


> I agree with Paul, sewing canvas is not rocket science. And, you do NOT need a $1,200 sewing machine to sew Sunbrella. I restitched my sail cover using nothing more than a home sewing machine that cost $129 at BJ's Wholesale Club. It did an excellent job.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Gary


Give me a break

You must never have used A professional machine. Try and sew through Strataglass with your BJ special. Or leather chafe to sunbrella

You say it's not rocket science...no it's not, but it is a skill. Just like we all can be professional karaoke singers and play music at functions.

My wife makes all our canvas. She has a Sailrite machine which has paid for itself many times over now. I can sew probably better than most, but now where as well as her. I don't know how's to put a dart into fabric.

I wouldn't minimize the ability of someone's skill in sewing or canvas creations anymore than I'd minimize a singers skill saying I can hum, or a chefs skill saying I can cook dinner with t fel and Ron popiel

BTW hands down the dodger is the toughest to make my wife says. Go study it. You do well, but don't minimize what you get from a professional


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

4arch said:


> PTFE thread is great for fabric-to-fabric stitching that you'd have little reason to ever want to take apart - seams, edge bindings, hems, etc. Zippers don't last long enough to justify high-strength thread. I'm in the process of replacing all the zippers on my bimini. They were sewn with V-92 polyester. Once I get the ends cut free, the thread is so weak I can just rip the whole zipper off by hand. The thread and the zipper had about the same lifespan, which is a good thing. It's awesome not having to cut the old zippers out one stitch at a time. If they had been sewn with PTFE it would have made the replacement process ten times harder with no appreciable benefit during the working life of the zipper. Eisen/strata glass windows are similar as far as not lasting as long as the fabric itself.


Exactly right


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

4arch said:


> PTFE thread is great for fabric-to-fabric stitching that you'd have little reason to ever want to take apart - seams, edge bindings, hems, etc. Zippers don't last long enough to justify high-strength thread. I'm in the process of replacing all the zippers on my bimini. They were sewn with V-92 polyester. Once I get the ends cut free, the thread is so weak I can just rip the whole zipper off by hand. The thread and the zipper had about the same lifespan, which is a good thing. It's awesome not having to cut the old zippers out one stitch at a time. If they had been sewn with PTFE it would have made the replacement process ten times harder with no appreciable benefit during the working life of the zipper. Eisen/strata glass windows are similar as far as not lasting as long as the fabric itself.


Eisenglass and strata glass are like night and day. Our strata glass is 7 years old and has been cared for with te IMAR prodiuct twice a year and looks new. It will far outlast the sunbrella.

Eisenglsss is cheap, blurry after a few years and crazes easily


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

Canvas is a funny thing, I heard of one of my neighbors paying $16,000 to have one crafted from scratch in Maine. I could build a full enclosure for our 48' for under $500. If you have the old material, why not do it yourself. The best sunbrella is very reasonable, $25 a yard 60" width if I remember correctly.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> Give me a break
> 
> You must never have used A professional machine. Try and sew through Strataglass with your BJ special. Or leather chafe to sunbrella
> 
> ...


Dave, I agree it's a skill - no argument there, however, I have sewn since I was a 12-year-old kid (my mother taught me on an old Singer treadle machine) so for me it's pretty easy, even at my advanced age. I have sewn leatherette, which is pretty tough stuff, and made my own music seat cushions, and the cushions for my helm seat, which has a heavy-duty zipper sewn in. And, yes, I have used a professional machine while I was in Marathon, it's a lot more powerful than the one from BJs, but that was it - power. Larger motor, longer needle travel, and a lot heavier foot. Now, my bimini has a rubber abrasion cover over each of the support rails, one that prevents the Sunbrella from being abraded my the sail cover. I know I could not sew that, but it's not fabric - it's very thick, rubberized canvas, therefore, I would not expect my BJ's machine to penetrate it. But I easily penetrates and tightly sews up to 3 layers of canvas. I made a cover for my home emergency generator from Sunbrella, one with a drawstring sewn into a pocket, it it was a piece of cake. I purchased the Sunbrella from JoAnne Fabrics in Bel Air. The stitches have held up for the past three years and the generator is stored under my deck, open to all kinds of nasty weather, summer and winter. So, as dumb as I am, I figure this stuff, like sailing, is not rocket science. And, who knows, maybe you can sing if you put your mind to it - it's not rocket science either, but playing the music professionally, well, that takes a bit more training.

All the best,

Gary


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

I can't carry a tune in a home sewn Sunbrella bag.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

That's why I get the big bucks! 

Gary


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

I recently went hunting for Strataglass...yes I could find it, a place in Annapolis has it...very expensive. Before I went to two canvas shops in the area. Both said they will no longer use Strataglass, its overpriced by a company that doesnt stand behind its product. Their words, not mine...do a little research and you may find Strataglass is not all some make it out to be. Your choice...considering how easily a dodger window can get hit by a sheet or something else, personally I dont see the point in spending double the price when you can purchase something better perhaps. 

We purchased a Sailrite machine after using my Aunts a couple of years ago. We like it but cant not wonder why the arm isnt longer and higher, and why the needle cant go higher when trying to sew a seam on a corner...its tight to say the least. Its better than using the home sew machine she had but not a huge improvement. Its got the power just needs a longer and taller arm with more height for the needle.

Irene (my wife) started by making some simple covers for some cockpit coamings then made new winch coverz. Next she tackled the Bimini this year and she did a great job. She used the old one as a template. Its not perfect but its pretty close. Next up, sail cover, pedestal cover, and finally the dodger...if my idea works, the top of the dodger will be solid like a surf board made of foam covered in fiberglass and then painted I think, hopefully all she will have to make is the windows and fabric to hlod it all together. Canvas Creations in Annapolis has something similar they sell for $$$$. 

I think a good looking bimini is crucial to how a boat looks. I have seen a few homemade dodger that look like square tents or those pop up screen tents you see at 4th of July Picnics...just fugly and ruin the lines of a boat. 

I would add, for me I want to be able to see OVER the dodger, not through it. That is not a problem on our boat, when the main sheet is in tight it needs the low profile of our dodger anyway. If I wanted a box I would have bought an RV. 

Umm...what else...yea I agree with 4arch on the zippers and thread. Seems like the zippers these days only last a few years.

Oh...the 303 stuff works, some said it didnt...in my experience it works well, light application once a year and its good. 

My $.02 LOL


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Chris, come up to the head of the bay next April for a visit and I'll take you and Kate for a sail, and then you can see my work first hand.

Gary


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Well, I won't be purchasing or self-building any external canvas for my boat.

I just had to buy my daughter a replacement car.


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

T37Chef said:


> I recently went hunting for Strataglass...yes I could find it, a place in Annapolis has it...very expensive. Before I went to two canvas shops in the area. Both said they will no longer use Strataglass, its overpriced by a company that doesnt stand behind its product. Their words, not mine...do a little research and you may find Strataglass is not all some make it out to be. Your choice...considering how easily a dodger window can get hit by a sheet or something else, personally I dont see the point in spending double the price when you can purchase something better perhaps.


You bought their sewing machine, you should have browsed their site.
Search
They have every fabric, vinyl, cloth, Dacron, ECT you may ever use on a Bimini.
Great prices, and they explain what strataglass is too.


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## Boogie Nights (Oct 15, 2014)

See below for reference of my homemade, £75 canopy. It's not perfect in the slightest, but it did the job. and I wanted to find pink canvas eventually to make a proper job of it.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Fish cleaning by ISIS?


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## Boogie Nights (Oct 15, 2014)

BubbleheadMd said:


> Fish cleaning by ISIS?


I was actually chopping mushrooms for dinner while we were practically becalmed. 
But I'd burnt my face a bit (being quite fair skinned as you might tell from the iridescent legs) so needed to cover it. It's a look that will catch on one day.

we put the hood up in the hope of creating as much windage as possible for the extremely low wind speed. 
It wouldn't normally be up when flying (draping limply) a kite


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

chrisncate said:


> I'd like to see some close up in detail pictures of the homemade canvas posters have mentioned here. Especially that 48 footer full enclosure for $500. That sounds awesome!


Hell, that's nuthin'... you should see the Harken Black Magic blocks he's able to duplicate himself for a mere fraction of Harken's cost...


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

bubbleheadmd said:


> well, i won't be purchasing or self-building any external canvas for my boat.
> 
> I just had to buy my daughter a replacement car.


uuuuuuuuuuuuuh


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

UnionPacific said:


> You bought their sewing machine, you should have browsed their site.
> Search
> They have every fabric, vinyl, cloth, Dacron, ECT you may ever use on a Bimini.
> Great prices, and they explain what strataglass is too.


I know what Strataglass is, I know the site well...I can find pretty much everything we need locally and often for less $$$. What I have found is that Strataglass is overpriced product that markets it product to make you think its better, but that may not be the case.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

You could look into this;


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

T37Chef said:


> I know what Strataglass is, I know the site well...I can find pretty much everything we need locally and often for less $$$. What I have found is that Strataglass is overpriced product that markets it product to make you think its better, but that may not be the case.


I was a bit shocked myself to see they advertize it as only a 3-5 year life.
I did not think you could go local and get a better price? When I shopped the local canvas places, they were basically $20 more then sailrite.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Problem is, the distributor in Annapolis only sells it in large sheets, i went to three canvas shops around Annapolis, all pretty much had the same opinion, one will not use it anymore because Strataglass would not take warrenty claims, the will not build anything with it as of about a year now.

Hey, one can spend their money how they want, for me I just dont see the cost benefits.


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

T37Chef said:


> Problem is, the distributor in Annapolis only sells it in large sheets, i went to three canvas shops around Annapolis, all pretty much had the same opinion, one will not use it anymore because Strataglass would not take warrenty claims, the will not build anything with it as of about a year now.
> 
> Hey, one can spend their money how they want, for me I just dont see the cost benefits.


Same here, going with normal 40 gauge. Then I will not flip my lid if it gets scratched.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

chrisncate said:


> I'm curious to see some other folks DIY projects, especially regarding canvas. I'm 99% convinced that no skill in the trade or decent equipment is actually needed, but to get over that 1% hump I'd like some real world pics and examples so I can be sure.


Hell, sewing is the easy part... Making the frame, and bending 7/8" stainless tubing to match, _THAT'S_ where it gets tricky...












No easier way to mess up the look of a boat, than with canvas... Plenty of good ideas here...

)

Ugly dodger collection - Cruising Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

Sometimes, I guess the simplest solution is just to slap on a center console aluminum tee-top from a marine surplus yard...


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Hard top Tee Tops are a great item on power boats, and I ran across a guy in Florida that did an outstanding job making one for his sailboat. He designed and constructed the thing from scratch and did it in a small shop at the Marathon City Marina. This guy was my age, and he did an amazing job. Don't count out the old codgers.










Cheers,

Gary


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## UnionPacific (Dec 31, 2013)

I have been toying with the idea of using 1.5" stainless tubing, and laying canvas over it, but I would rather do starboard over the top.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

now were talking! TOO BAD IM NOT OLD ENOUGH to be an old codger

truer words have never been spoken

peace


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## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

that'd make me a Dodger Codger, Roger?

Christian; you have enuf fixes under yer belt to be a "Codger in Waiting"
LOL's


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Good canvas expands the usefulness of a boat by a large measure. Windage, drag and visibility issues are legit and interfere with some of the art of sailing. However, while I believe we sail substantially more than the average bear, the reality is, we are aboard at anchor or the slip for way more hours than we are underway. 

A full enclosure allows us to use our cockpit as an outdoor living space. We can literally be comfortable in the rain, or more notably in cold weather. In fact, the side enclosures have to come off earlier than expected, as it gets too hot!!

Canvas can be a matter of taste. Some are minimalists, some have full oxygen tents. Ours is not less than a stand up circus tent. It is approx 13 ft wide and 18 ft long. There is about 6'5" of headroom. It's a bloody livingroom and we love it. Most of the season, the sides are off (unless it rains) and the connector is detached underway for visibility, leaving just the dodger and bimini. 

This past summer, we sat at anchor in Tarpoulin Cove, in the cockpit with a cocktail, and watched a massive thunderstorm go by. Beautiful.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

It's probably a wise move to stay clear of anyone who will not give you a set quote. There are no material cost surprises in canvas to deal with. Either this person has no clue as to what he/she is doing or he/she wants to charge too much. You're not hiring someone by the hour but by the piece. Like any other building project, you need a set spec, in writing, and a set price. Any pro should be able to provide this.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Boogie Nights said:


> If you think about how long it takes to make something like a canopy, with all the technical bits and the fitting and so on, you are looking at the best part of three to five days. I'm not sure what someone doing sewing professionally in a fully fledged company earns as an hourly rate, but I'd imagine that £200/$350 is fair for a full day.
> if you add all that up, three days plus materials, you are looking at anywhere from $1000-$1800 to make a canopy. (depending on its complexity and fittings and which canvas it is made from)
> So the prices Ive seen on this thread seem quite reasonable to me.


Plus facility costs, utilities, insurance, advertising, and other overhead.



hellosailor said:


> I wonder, if the old canvas was simply old and leaky, but still strong enough to carry on, whether you could just spray it with that rubber-in-a-can stuff to put a totally waterproof coating on it?


In my experience by the time the fabric itself, if keep clean and protected, starts to leak the structural integrity of the fabric has about had it.



travlineasy said:


> who knows, maybe you can sing if you put your mind to it - it's not rocket science either


Not me. I only sing in the car. Alone.



JonEisberg said:


> Sometimes, I guess the simplest solution is just to slap on a center console aluminum tee-top from a marine surplus yard...


I've seen that sort of thing done a few times. One person I know put a used powerboat top on a Freedom 40. It looked pretty bad. Distinctive, but bad.


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

JonEisberg said:


> [Y]ou definitely need to mount the cone of [Tenara] thread horizontally on a roller 'toilet paper style' to eliminate the tendency of the thread to twist...


Thread is wound two ways, either stack-wound or cross-wound. Stack-wound is laid parallel around a spool. Cross-wound forms an X around a cone. Stack-wound is designed to come off "toilet paper style." Cross-wound is designed to come off the top of the cone.

Tenara does tend to kink. Sailrite's recommendation might be for back pressure to avoid kinking. Gore, the manufacturer of Tenara, suggests the "use of a spool/thread 'sock,' or by adding an additional tension contact at the point the thread leaves the spool."

Gore Fibers


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## TejasSailer (Mar 21, 2004)

JonEisberg said:


> I've switched to the heavy weight Tenara ... Of course, an ordinary machine won't handle it.


Jon is correct about machine requirements.

Regular weight Tenara is comparable to V-92 / Tkt 30 weight thread. Heavy weight Tenara is comparable to V-138 / Tkt 20 weight thread and is outside the specifications of all but industrial machines, including Sailrite Ultrafeed machines.

http://www.sailrite.com/PDF/Sailrite Sewing Machine Comparison Chart.pdf


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