# Tiller or Wheel for Solo?



## mrhoneydew (May 1, 2008)

First, I am NOT wishing to open up a can of worms/debate about which is better... tiller or wheel. Opinions vary. I have been reading "Thoughts, Tips, Techniques and Tactics for Singlehanded Sailing," by Andrew Evans and he strongly recommends a tiller for a singlehander. The boats I have sailed on (as crew) in the past have been wheel-steered. My current boat, a Columbia 28' which I haven't had out much yet, is tiller-steered. (I purchased it because the price was right.) My intuition is that I just really prefer a wheel. Hopefully this Fall I will be stepping up to a 32'-35' boat but before I do I would like to hear what singlehanders have to say about the two options. Which do you prefer and why?


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

I like tillers on boats small enough to use them efficiently. And, there is no simpler auto-pilot than one built for a tiller like the old AutoHelm 800. I installed one on my Cape Dory 25D in about 20 minutes and to this day, it is still the easiest to use AP i ever owned.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Does not matter. A good autopilot will make all the difference in the world. Tiller pilots are much easier to install and much less expensive.

I like having a wheel but one gets much more feedback on how the boat is sailing with a tiller. This can be helpful in hinting to the single handed sailor that it might be time to reef. Sooner is generally safer and easier, especially single handed.

Docking single handed with a tiller you will know EXACTLY were the rudder is pointed. This helps in understanding how the wind/current are effecting the boat.

All that being said, I like a wheel more than a tiller because I often have non-sailing friends with me. It's easier to give them the helm and I get to play with the sail trim or do other stuff that needs to be done. A tiller just confuses the land lubbers 

JMHO YMMV


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Not gonna join the debate either, but if you end up with a wheel, remember that you do not have to sit behind it when single-handing. You may find that sitting astride the wheel on the windward (high) side gives you just as good access to the forward part of the cockpit as a tiller does. Maybe better, since you can leave the wheel for a few seconds to tend to things, especially if you have a wheel brake or (even better) autopilot.

Having your genoa sheet winches on the coaming near the wheel is also a big plus. I do not have that, but I do have a couple of clam cleats on the coaming that work in mild conditions for my small boat.

I only singlehand a couple times a year, and always in rather protected waters, so my comments should be taken with a grain of salt.


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

I think it's not going to matter too much for the average single hander. A wheel may be more comfortable. You get pulleys and things to help with the load. But you get a little more feedback with how balanced your sails are with a tiller. 
It's a personal preference. I can steer with my toe on the wheel. With a tiler, I can hook my heel over it and steer.

If you were doing a solo around the world trip, I'd lean towards tiller since, should your windvane and autopilot fail, you can rig the sail to the tiller for some windvane-ish action.


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

Autopilot aside, I prefer to single handle with a wheel because if I need to run forward to do something or go below real quick, I can tighten the wheel lock and not veer way off course. Im sure you can rig something to hold the tiller in place too though.


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## mrhoneydew (May 1, 2008)

I appreciate the responses. I think it mostly just comes down to what feels right. For me I think that means a wheel. I plan to head offshore and will do so on a boat that has an emergency tiller in case everything else breaks. I can appreciate the notion that a tiller gives more direct feedback, but I guess I just prefer a wheel. And I suppose there isn't that golden piece of information or advice that is likely to change that. I do appreciate hearing peoples' responses, however. Thanks again!


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## mrhoneydew (May 1, 2008)

Slayer said:


> Autopilot aside, I prefer to single handle with a wheel because if I need to run forward to do something or go below real quick, I can tighten the wheel lock and not veer way off course. Im sure you can rig something to hold the tiller in place too though.


This is my feeling also. Just flip on the wheel brake really quick, run and do whatever you need to do, and come right back. Much simpler and quicker than tying off a tiller. This is, of course, if you don't have the auto-pilot set up in either scenario.


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## sandy stone (Jan 14, 2014)

I vote for the wheel also, for the reason given above - just tighten up the wheel brake to leave the helm for a bit. In fact, my boat will sail itself upwind for minutes at a time with the wheel brake set, and downwind for at least a little while. I singlehand all the time and rarely use the autopilot. You certainly can rig something with a tiller, I did when I had a tiller boat, but I didn't think it was quite as convenient.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

easier than reaching down and tightening up the wheel brake. just click the lever


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## mrhoneydew (May 1, 2008)

mad_machine said:


> easier than reaching down and tightening up the wheel brake. just click the lever


Funny you should mention this... I actually have one for my boat that I haven't installed yet. I am going to see how I like it. I'm not sure about having another line in the cockpit to trip over though. Of course they run aft, but simply being there creates a possible situation for a tangle. I tend to prefer less lines over all. We shall see. At any rate, it will be a solution for the time being while I have this boat.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## knuterikt (Aug 7, 2006)

mrhoneydew said:


> First, I am NOT wishing to open up a can of worms/debate about which is better... tiller or wheel. Opinions vary. I have been reading "Thoughts, Tips, Techniques and Tactics for Singlehanded Sailing," by Andrew Evans and he strongly recommends a tiller for a singlehander. The boats I have sailed on (as crew) in the past have been wheel-steered. My current boat, a Columbia 28' which I haven't had out much yet, is tiller-steered. (I purchased it because the price was right.) My intuition is that I just really prefer a wheel. Hopefully this Fall I will be stepping up to a 32'-35' boat but before I do I would like to hear what singlehanders have to say about the two options. Which do you prefer and why?


On a wheel steered boat it is important that you can reach the important sail controls from the wheel.
Remember that you normally won't sit behind the wheel but rather on one side.
I can sail my boat 38 feet wheel steering alone, can even pull in a reef or two without using the autopilot.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

I find it fascinating that the best "plus" for wheel steering by most is the wheel brake...

As noted the tiller clutch is similar, but they don't mention that it's a PITA when you don't need it (lift the tiller with it).

My 2 most recent boats were performance oriented, and the traveler was just in front of the skipper... my solution for "quick bow work" was always a bungee, to the traveler around the tiller, and back.

HOWEVER, a tiller pilot is an awesome upgrade, and the bungee, AND the wheel brake are really not great solutions.

For single handing, which I do a lot (nearly always), the tiller pilot is really a huge bonus.
Wheel will take away some feel from the boat, but I've never found it so bad as others seem to indicate.

Also indicating rudder angle for a wheel, can be done by marking the wheel as well.

The biggest issue single handing with a wheel is the need to be out in front (or to the side) of the wheel to handle sheets/lines. Some boats are better setup for it (with controls lead aft to the pilot seat) than others. With that regard my next boat I was hoping to stay away from boats with travelers on the coach roof. I'd prefer a traveler in front of the wheel, with winches within reach of the helm. If you look at the standard layouts of the J28, Tartan 3000 versus say the Catalina 27, Beneteau 285, wheel, you'll see what I mean. Some layouts are just easier to single hand than others (granted some of this can be changed easily)...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Personal preference for the most part. A solid autopilot is the most important issue for a single hander, imo. However, you must always consider what you will do when it craps out, and it will. Control lines are almost always within reach of a tiller, sometimes within reach of a wheel. Often a function of where the primary winches are mounted. The mainsheet is easier to relocate.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Whether or not you need automated steering depends on the length, frequency and complexity of your singlehanded operations.

If you're daysailing or running jib and main on longer sails, Evan Andrews' rope/bungee/surgical tubing contraption is more than adequate.

If you're spending extended time on the foredeck and flying a symmetric kite solo, a powered auto pilot is better. It gets even better if you tie in wind instruments and GPS to it. Even the ST1000/2000 support this capability.

Although Raymarine's instruction manual states that the tiller pilots do not steer well DDW, I find that it does a fair job if you dial down the gain a little bit so that it doesn't overreact when a swell lifts the stern.

As far as wheel vs. tiller- I don't know why you even asked the question. You've already made up your mind and no one is going to offer an opinion that would change it.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

SHNOOL said:


> I find it fascinating that the best "plus" for wheel steering by most is the wheel brake...
> 
> As noted the tiller clutch is similar, but they don't mention that it's a PITA when you don't need it (lift the tiller with it).


It does depend on how you have it set up. My tiller is rather low, so the ropes are actually above it's arc.. makes it easy to flip up and out of the way. I would post some pics, but my Sprite is in pieces getting a complete refit


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## Andrew65 (Dec 21, 2009)

mad_machine said:


> easier than reaching down and tightening up the wheel brake. just click the lever


Thanks for this gizmo mad. Christmas just might come early this summer.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Remember, the way you set up your boat for singlehanding is not entirely about how you get things done under normal conditions. It's about how you get to shore, if you fall and break an arm, or a stay let's go, etc.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

Second the opinion that some wheels look really hard to get out from behind. At the other extreem, there is a boat in my yard that has the wheel snugged up near the companion way. Would be a PITA getting in and out, but, you could almost steer the boat from within the cabin!


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

I really like tillers. There is nothing like the feedback you get from a tiller, you can almost sail with your eyes closed.

That said, I don't know what he limits are but have always felt that beyond a certain size, you probably want a wheel for mechanical advantage. Steering my friend's 54 foot boat in a gale with a wheel, I've needed to plant both feet in a wide stance, and continually correct to keep a good angle not to bury the bow. It takes some strength, even with a wheel.

I know yea, you can balance the boat and make the rudder feather light, but beyond a certain size, in rapidly chaining conditions as you ride up and down into the valley's between waves, does this still work?


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I have single-handed for a long time and on a lot of different types of boats both with and wheel and without wheel locks. I also did a lot of single-handed racing. For me below a 35 feeter, a tiller is pretty much a no-brainer. Tillers are simpler, more reliable, easier to maintain, precisely adjustable, easier to rig with vane steering, easier to rig a steering line that allows adjustment from anywhere on deck, less tiring, and provides way more feel and a quicker response. Over 35 feet it really depends on the boat. 

But the main advantage of a tiller is that with a proper tiller extension you can move around the cockpit, reach all of the control lines, and still have the steering right at hand. As you apply vang, outhaul, backtstay, or ease the traveler, or change sheet lead, you can feel the helm change and get the adjustment perfect. Unless you can do these things all from the wheel, then you are likely to go through an iterative process which is frustating in changing conditions. 

Short distance steering with a tiller, I run a large diameter shock chord tightly across the cockpit and put two or three wraps on the end of the tiller. I can precisely set the position of the tiller by rotating the shockchord around the tiller. This is precise enough that I was able to be on deck long enough to jibe a spin pole, make a sandwich, or use the head.

For singlehanding longer distances, I strongly believe that a vane is the most useful self steering device on a small boat with limited battery capacity. While a vane can be made to work with a wheel, on a boat with a light helm, generally a vane works better with a tiller than a wheel. 

I have a wheel in my current boat. Its a low friction, rack and pinion. As much as I like it in most regards, I find myself using the autopilot far more than I would with a tiller. In my opinion and based on my experiences with them, wheel brakes are not that useful for single-handing. The lack of resilience and the difficulty in setting a precise position creates a false sense of security. 

I agree with the comments about not sitting behind the wheel. I have my boat set up with the instruments mounted on the bulkhead so I can read them from alongside the wheel. The exception is the binacle mounted chart plotter which is mounted on a swivel so I can see it from either tack or from behind the wheel. Sitting astride the wheel does not work in all cockpits but where it does, it allows a better view of the slot and oncoming boats, as well as easier reach to the control lines. 

Jeff


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## mrhoneydew (May 1, 2008)

BubbleheadMd said:


> As far as wheel vs. tiller- I don't know why you even asked the question. You've already made up your mind and no one is going to offer an opinion that would change it.


A fair point and I considered this after I asked it. But I look around on yachtworld and cruise craigslist periodically to keep an eye on what's out there. I will hopefully be upgrading boats in the next few months and when I see an ad that looks interesting I click right past it when I see a tiller. I guess I posed the question because there aren't a huge number of boats available in my price range in my area in the size I am looking for that I would take offshore. So it seems I should re-think the tiller question so as not to eliminate an otherwise great boat and I was wondering what other people think. Another thing I have considered is if I find a boat I otherwise like at a lower price and Edson has a tiller to wheel conversion, I may consider buying it anyway. A conversion would run $2000 - $3000, so I figure that into the budget. Often times I can keep the tiller as an emergency measure. It may turn out that I grow to appreciate the tiller and forego the conversion. And the conversion looks like a fairly involved process, so I would need to really love the boat to take on that level of project.

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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

While not a singlehanded point, there is another wheel advantage. You can put a non-sailor at a wheel and have them keep the boat pointed toward a compass heading or something in the distance, even a cloud. I've done so for many reasons. Some are just entertaining a guest, others to allow me to go do something else they would not understand or to use the head. A non-sailor would be a panic with a tiller.


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## emc_ret (Jun 24, 2014)

Tiller! With a wheel you are pretty much stuck behind or to one side of the wheel while hand steering. On many boats this means you can't reach any of the sheet winches and you are so far aft you get little protection from the dodger. With a tiller you can move around the cockpit. A tiller extension gives you even more freedom. I have seen brackets mounted on the side of the cockpit you could clip the knob on the end of the tiller extension into to hold the tiller for you.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

I have a Tiller Tamer which is kind of like a wheel brake. The tighter you turn the screw the more resistance it puts on the tiller. When I'm not using it the lines come right out so it's never in the way. I like it. I have a friend who doesn't. It makes single-handing a lot easier.

I haven't had that many people out on my boat yet, but I've had better-than-expected luck putting non-sailors on the tiller. It seems almost everyone has driven a little outboard fishing boat around at some point, so tiller steering comes right back to them.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I have heard the "non-sailor freaks out on a tiller" argument for all of my life and while there have certainly been some landlubbers who never get using a tiller, the reality is that I have sailed with a whole lot of first time out/ total non-sailors in my life and the vast majority have usually learned to steer with tiller about as fast as they learn to sail with a wheel, if not faster. I know non-sailors always say that they think that a wheel would be easier, but that is usually before they have spent any serious time on a tiller. Once they have gotten past the initial nervousnesss about a tiller, they generally learn more quickly. It is the reason that most reputable sailing schools start teaching with tiller steered boats.

The hardest thing that most non-sailors need to learn about steering a boat is that you need to reverse the rudder slightly in order to stop the turn, not just center it. (We do this in a car but because the grip is so solid that the correction is small and we are so used to it, that we don't even know that we do it.) 

The similarity to a wheel in a car means its harder to internalize the need to reverse the rudder and then bring it to a balanced position, and so there is a greater tendancy for a newbie to oversteer with a wheel than a tiller mostly because of the lack of feel, force to overcome friction, and the momentum of the wheel. 

Jeff


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

I don't know if the opinion of a person on the opposite end of Jeff H's experience level are worth reading, but here's mine just in case anyone's interested.

My sailing experience at the helm so far is on my Pearson 26 (tiller) and my friend's gorgeous 42' Passport (wheel). I was constantly oversteering his boat and never did really develop a good feel for just how far I needed to move the wheel to make needed corrections; felt like I was wandering all over the place. On my Pearson, I really feel in control and find the tiller very intuitive. Granted, a lot of that could be other factors; more time on my boat than his, and my smaller boat may be quicker to react. Having said that, I wouldn't steer away (no pun intended) from a tiller due to the "guests are better off with a wheel" argument. The tiller made MORE sense to me as a beginner.

Best to all, 

Barry


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Jeff_H said:


> .....I have sailed with a whole lot of first time out/ total non-sailors in my life and the vast majority have usually learned to steer with tiller about as fast as they learn to sail with a wheel, if not faster.


Except, I'm not referring to anyone learning how to sail, or even having a desire to learn. Generally, I would be referring to someone along for a day sail that you are simply entertaining, by giving them the helm with the most simple instruction. "keep it pointed at that"

You may have a different experience, but I would say half decline even that offer on the wheel, out of nervousness. Many more used to decline giving the tiller a shot.



> .....there is a greater tendancy for a newbie to oversteer with a wheel than a tiller mostly because of the lack of feel, force to overcome friction, and the momentum of the wheel.


Absolutely true. Same in the aircraft. I've even sold someone on giving the yoke in a small plane a shot over a tiller on a boat. Of course, I don't even bother telling them there are rudder pedals too.


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

Minnewaska said:


> Same in the aircraft. I've even sold someone on giving the yoke in a small plane a shot over a tiller on a boat. Of course, I don't even bother telling them there are rudder pedals too.


I got a kick out of reading that, Minne... my experience has been just the opposite. My wife loves to pilot our sailboat via the tiller. I can't get her to even TOUCH the yoke of our Cherokee, much less fly the plane at all. Navigate? Sure.. she's great in the air or on the water. Pilot? Sailboat, all day... plane, NEVER. Go figure.

Best to ya,

Barry


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## azguy (Jul 17, 2012)

I love tillers but on a blue water 35+' boat I think a wheel will serve you better


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## mrhoneydew (May 1, 2008)

I am glad I started this thread, actually. It has given me some things to consider.



azguy said:


> I love tillers but on a blue water 35+' boat I think a wheel will serve you better


azguy, what is it do you think about a boat 35+ that makes a wheel better offshore?

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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

mrhoneydew said:


> I am glad I started this thread, actually. It has given me some things to consider.
> 
> azguy, what is it do you think about a boat 35+ that makes a wheel better offshore?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Physics.

You didn't ask me but I'm a smooth talker.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

bblument said:


> I don't know if the opinion of a person on the opposite end of Jeff H's experience level are worth reading, but here's mine just in case anyone's interested.
> 
> My sailing experience at the helm so far is on my Pearson 26 (tiller) and my friend's gorgeous 42' Passport (wheel). I was constantly oversteering his boat and never did really develop a good feel for just how far I needed to move the wheel to make needed corrections; felt like I was wandering all over the place. On my Pearson, I really feel in control and find the tiller very intuitive. Granted, a lot of that could be other factors; more time on my boat than his, and my smaller boat may be quicker to react. Having said that, I wouldn't steer away (no pun intended) from a tiller due to the "guests are better off with a wheel" argument. The tiller made MORE sense to me as a beginner.
> 
> ...


Your comments are very valid, and relevant to the discussion at hand. I personally welcome and am interested in your comments and would have even if they did not essentially concur with my own. 

Like so many things in sailing, there is not one universally always right answer on some of these discussion. While you may bring a different point of view to the conversation, it is no less helpful to have both points of view presented. In this case, it has been a long time since I personally learned to sail, and so it would be easy for me to forget what it is like to be a comparatively newer sailor experiencing different types of boats. In many ways that makes your experience very valuable in ways mine may not be.

But more generally, one of our goals at SailNet is to have discussions which are comfortable to participate in for everyone at every level of experience. 
For the newer sailor we hope this provides an opportunity to try out ideas which may be validated or debated but in either case provide a chance to learn. For the old salt, it is a chance to think through a long held position and be able to explain why that opinion is held, and perhaps have that opinion changed as new thoughts are interjected.

Jeff


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## sandy stone (Jan 14, 2014)

Yep. And BTW, although the OP didn't ask I think one of the most desirable features for singlehanding is having the traveler in the cockpit.


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## mrhoneydew (May 1, 2008)

Agreed. A cabin top traveler is firmly in the "no" column.


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## LaurenceU (Mar 7, 2011)

mrhoneydew said:


> Agreed. A cabin top traveler is firmly in the "no"


I don't necessarily agree. My SS24 masthead rigged yacht has it's traveller on the coach roof. It is out of the way and easily accessible from the helm position. I work the traveller and main sheet without problem single handed.

good thread  I sail SS 24 (tiller, no auto helm) and Bavaria 42 match (wheel, auto helm, traveller in cockpit). I think I would prefer tiller setup for yachts up to maybe 34-36 feet single handed.
Take a look at the S&S 34 for which many singlehanded circumnavigations have been made. Most have tillers though I know a few have a wheel helm.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I think that a lot depends on the sailing characteristics of the boat and how the controls are laid out. I think you could make a case for either in the 26 to 33 foot range with a wheel for bigger boats and a tiller for smaller boats.

I saw a really neat arrangement on a Nonsuch 22 (heavy boat at around 5000 lb). The autopilot was rigged so that when you had the tiller down the pilot was on standby. If you wanted to use the autopilot you just lifted the tiller to the vertical position. Not sure why this is not more common.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

I wont add much...

here is just some info that may or may not help.

This month was the transpac....If you look at the singlehanders and double handed divisions they are 99 percent tiller

In fact division winner solo was an islander 36 frolic...guess what he had for steering?

TILLER.

if you ask most racers in medium, small boats tiller hands down...simplicity hands down...will always win at the end of the day.

also tiller pilots are significantly cheaper and easier to replace than wheel pilots.

having said this I do LOVE to steer by wheel downwind...its something I cant replicate with a tiller...

standing just behind and to either quarter of the wheel sighting the big waves...and trying to surf them(even if your a displacement hull) to me is beyond exhilarating...something about whacking the wheel hard over and back and letting it slip between your fingers where the rudder finds its sweet spot and the boat and sails balance and you let go of the wheel and it stays there moving by itself where everything is perfect is something to behold, thats what sailing is about.

not all boats do this, not all rudder and wheels do this but sometimes it can be magical.

if the op does decide to go to wheel MAKE SURE you keep your tiller and stub exposed so QUICK insert of tiller can be acheieved in order to regain steerabilty.

btw I find beam reaching much more enjoyeable with a tiller and downwind sailing with a wheel...mostly has to do with ergonomics...

oh I forgot a neat setup acheivable on some boats is a wheel and stubby tiller with tiller pilot...I have seen it on some race boats and find it very interesting...

this setup can only be achieved where the wheel is situated very forward almost at the companionway(usually cause the traveller is right there on the bridgedeck or up on the cabin top nearby) it also acheives better boat balance by having the weight midships and a cleaner cockpit

*however* it makes getting in and out of the cabin a nuissance. the stubby tiller and tiller pilot is redundancy and a budget way of getting self steering on a budget.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Nothing beats a tiller for 'feedback' from a 'properly designed and BALANCED (by design) rudder.

If a tiller steered boat has its 'rudder shaft' exposed below deck, then an 'auxiliary (bronze, Edson-type) tiller arm can be mounted so that just about ANY suitable and matched autopilot can be attached .... especially good for unbalanced rudders that require a LOT of force to steer (but a boat with an unbalanced rudder will typically have wheel steering to overcome the adverse loads imparted to an unbalanced rudder). 
example: Bronze Tiller Arms : Edson Marine Store


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

RichH said:


> Nothing beats a tiller for 'feedback' from a 'properly designed and BALANCED (by design) rudder.
> 
> If a tiller steered boat has its 'rudder shaft' exposed below deck, then an 'auxiliary (bronze, Edson-type) tiller arm can be mounted so that just about ANY suitable and matched autopilot can be attached .... especially good for unbalanced rudders that require a LOT of force to steer (but a boat with an unbalanced rudder will typically have wheel steering to overcome the adverse loads imparted to an unbalanced rudder).
> example: Bronze Tiller Arms : Edson Marine Store


x2

this is effectively replicating a ram arm below decks hugely expensive autopilot for big boats type of scenario...however I HAVE seen this done on small boats with cheap tiller pilots mounted below...usually with access from one lazarette...the plus for this is obviously water and protection from the elements...

a nice remote for the tiller pilot and bobs your uncle

sometimes going small and simple has so many benefits


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## Shockwave (Feb 4, 2014)

I find upwind work is easier with a tiller, while downwind work is easier with a wheel on keel boats. It's easier to stand and see wave patterns when sailing under a kite, it's easier to see wave patterns when sailing upwind with a tiller because you can get out further. YMMV


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Damn right a tiller is better for upwind as you sit well to the side of the helm and therefore you can more easily see the break of the luff on the jib/genoa ... or even better, watching a set of 'steering' tell tales (aka: Gentry tufts). 

Sitting to the side of a wheel is great PITA as you have to 'push away' at the top of the wheel which is 'tiring' and can put a lot strain on the shoulder. With a tiller and extension just a slight easy 'pull' here and there while sitting on the high side cap rail and 'life is good' ... also the reason that the old fashioned 'reverse mounted' wheels work just like tillers.


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## Waterrat (Sep 8, 2007)

Granted less to do with sailing but for the other 90% of your time on the boat a tiller folds up and a wheel is always in your way. You cockpit on a offshore boat is generally smaller and a wheel takes up a lot of valuable real estate while a tiller is only there when you need it. 

The other major consideration is simplicity. For any offshore boat a tiller is less complicated then a wheel. A single handed offshore voyage it seems wise to take advantage of the safety that comes from simple systems where practical. 

I do think I would consider other variables for my solo offshore sailboat long before I care about tiller vs wheel. Though based on all arguments above it seems tiller wins hands down for a boat below a certain displacement. Cheers Justin


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## Nicklaus (Apr 23, 2012)

Both my boats have had wheels, so can't really answer that debate. A good autopilot, as many have said, helps greatly.

Honestly, my 35 ft boat is easier to single-hand than my 27 ft. I find it's all about winch placement - being far enough aft to steer and work the sails. Self-tailing winches help, too.


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

A factor not often considered when long distance solo sailing with a tiller is that the tiller pilot is often more exposed to the elements. If sailing in areas with a chance of big seas getting pooped can make the tiller pilot inoperable.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

ScottUK said:


> A factor not often considered when long distance solo sailing with a tiller is that the tiller pilot is often more exposed to the elements. If sailing in areas with a chance of big seas getting pooped can make the tiller pilot inoperable.


I am not sure that is a valid argument. I suggest that the reality of a small boat is that the autopilot is likely to be a 'wheel pilot' if there is wheel steering and so will be equally as exposed to the elements as would a tiller pilot (maybe more since a wheel pilot can't be stowed below when not in use). On a boat where there is space and budget for a below deck autopilot installation, the ram for the autopilot will be protected whether there is a wheel or a tiller.

One autopilot argument in favor of a tiller with a wind vane is that a low energy draining 'tiller pilot' can often be used to operate the servo paddle on the wind vane so that less force(less electricity) is needed to make course corrections.

Jeff


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

I based my point on the recent passage from Hawaii to Samoa by Webb Chiles where he used 3 tiller pilots to complete the the voyage. I have no knowledge to what you refer to as a 'wheel pilot' but either way it would appear they both are exposed so, in my mind, would require consideration to mitigate the possibility of damage from that exposure.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

a wheel pilot is the same thing but for a wheel...usually using a belt

back a few pages rich posted a clamp on arm for small boats and big too where the shaft of the rudder is exposed between the deck and hull...in this space I have seen it done where using cheap tiller pilots you mount it just as you would a big ram arm style autopilot that bigger boats have but are so expensive.

you save yourself the surviving the elements hassle but a way to access the controls is a must...a lazarette or small hatch ontop is a way to do that or a remote.

but again the real way to go is small windvane on small boats...the tiller pilot to vane pendelum is a tried an tried method for those light wind days...

but I have not done it myself, usually its on bigger boats where that is done and not smaller ones like we are talking here


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

If everything else about the boat is right for you then don't worry about the steering mechanism. I like (probably prefer) tillers but my Pearson came with a wheel and I've grown comfortable with it too.

I was annoyed at the high price of wheel pilots compared to tiller pilots when buying this boat, but the X5 (and now the EV-100) are much better autopilots than the ST1000/ST2000. I'm not sure they are 3x better, but they are better enough that the sting of the 3x higher price has been lessened. If I were buying a tiller pilot today for a 30-35' boat I'd probably get the tiller version of the EV-100 (or X5 if one could be found on closeout).


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

RichH said:


> Sitting to the side of a wheel is great PITA as you have to 'push away' at the top of the wheel which is 'tiring' and can put a lot strain on the shoulder.


When I sit to the side of my wheel I push up to turn downwind and down to turn upwind. I find it to be very natural. This also lets me sit higher up on the combing, sort of like having a tiller extension (only not as long as a proper tiller extension).

I found that taking apart my wheel's steering system and lubricating everything gave me much better rudder feedback. It is really easy to feel when the boat is in the groove now. This is a couple of hour project on an Edson wheel.


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## FoolishMuse (Oct 12, 2006)

There are several reasons I much prefer the tiller. Keep in mind my overriding philosophy that you absolutely must be able to sail your boat without an autopilot - because it WILL BREAK - ABSOLUTELY.

Most (but not all) wheels are designed to be used standing, or at best in an uncomfortable sitting position. All tillers are designed to be used sitting. Singlehanders will want to sit when sailing for hours at a time.

It is difficult to handle lines while at the same time handling a wheel. For example, can you perform a tack in high winds with the wheel? And can you handle the spinnaker sheet and guy and the wheel all at the same time - in high winds? Can you launch a spinnaker in 25 knots with a wheel? Remember that your autopilot will fail at the single most inconvenient time, so you have to be able to do all of these things without it.

Finally, how much control do you have over a wheel with your feet/legs? I look at my legs as an additional hand when I need to be doing something else with my hands. The most common example is using two hands to winch in the jib sheet in high winds. I just put my knee over the tiller. Or eating a thermos of soup. 

So, in answer to the question, for some boats a wheel is fine, but only if it allows for complete control over the many other parts of the boat at the same time.

By the way, my book is being put out on real paper by the good folks at International Marine. I was just told that it goes to the printer at the end of August and will hit the book shelves at the end of September.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

LaurenceU said:


> I don't necessarily agree. My SS24 masthead rigged yacht has it's traveller on the coach roof. It is out of the way and easily accessible from the helm position. I work the traveller and main sheet without problem single handed.
> 
> good thread  I sail SS 24 (tiller, no auto helm) and Bavaria 42 match (wheel, auto helm, traveller in cockpit). I think I would prefer tiller setup for yachts up to maybe 34-36 feet single handed.
> Take a look at the S&S 34 for which many singlehanded circumnavigations have been made. Most have tillers though I know a few have a wheel helm.


The original design for the S&S 34 included tiller steering. I would say every one of the 200 or so S&S 34's built had tiller steering (Maybe 1 or two were factory built with wheels). The few S&S 34 that do exist that have wheel steering had the tiller modified to wheels- and some of these (including Jessica Watson's boat) had the wheel changed back to tiller-"The pedestal and wheel were off and a new rudder and tiller fitted."

JESSICA WATSON - The Making of Pink Lady

Personally, on my S&S 34 I like a tiller. I know exaxtly where the rudder is and I can control the tiller with legs or feet leaving the other two hands free to throw a tack or jibe. When backing up I use the gun sight technique ( act like the tiller is a rifle and "aim" the tiller where you want to back up. When docking single handed this is much easier than a wheel. Tiller is much simpler with less to break and is easier to connect a wind vane.


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## Plumbean (Dec 17, 2009)

casey1999 said:


> The original design for the S&S 34 included tiller steering. I would say every one of the 200 or so S&S 34's built had tiller steering (Maybe 1 or two were factory built with wheels). The few S&S 34 that do exist that have wheel steering had the tiller modified to wheels- and some of these (including Jessica Watson's boat) had the wheel changed back to tiller-"The pedestal and wheel were off and a new rudder and tiller fitted."
> 
> JESSICA WATSON - The Making of Pink Lady
> 
> Personally, on my S&S 34 I like a tiller. I know exaxtly where the rudder is and I can control the tiller with legs or feet leaving the other two hands free to throw a tack or jibe. When backing up I use the gun sight technique ( act like the tiller is a rifle and "aim" the tiller where you want to back up. When docking single handed this is much easier than a wheel. Tiller is much simpler with less to break and is easier to connect a wind vane.


Don't waste your money converting a tiller to wheel if you find a boat you like with a tiller. You can spend that on much more useful stuff. FWIW, my S&S 34 had an Edson conversion done to it, but thankfully a prior owner ripped it out so I'm back to having a tiller. Much easier to handle.


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## Plumbean (Dec 17, 2009)

FoolishMuse said:


> By the way, my book is being put out on real paper by the good folks at International Marine. I was just told that it goes to the printer at the end of August and will hit the book shelves at the end of September.


If you are looking to do solo stuff, take a look at FoolishMuse's book. He has some very well thought out information in there.


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## FoolishMuse (Oct 12, 2006)

I got a good laugh yesterday. A couple of hours after my posting above, I went out for a sail on a beautiful sunny afternoon with 20 knot wind. There was some bad corrosion on the negative terminal of my battery. When I unscrewed the nut, the entire peg broke off. So here I am with no battery to run my autopilot. But I sure as heck was not going to let that ruin such a perfect sailing day. I went out with just my bungee cord and still had a great spinnaker run.

Just further proof that singlehanding does not, and should not, require an autopilot.


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## mrhoneydew (May 1, 2008)

I guess I will say that after posting this and the subsequent discussion about the subject, I will not let a tiller dissuade me from considering a boat once I am ready to buy. Before that would have been the case. Honestly, I am looking at 40 year old boats in my price range and length (33' - 36'). There are plenty of other issues to consider with these boats... I will consider wheel or tiller boats equally. I realize the consensus is pretty much tiller boats are simpler to handle and mechanically, but this is still progress for me. Thank you all who contributed to the discussion.


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## sandy stone (Jan 14, 2014)

FoolishMuse said:


> Can you launch a spinnaker in 25 knots with a wheel? Remember that your autopilot will fail at the single most inconvenient time, so you have to be able to do all of these things without it.


Why do you have to launch a spinnaker in 25 knots of wind, singlehanded?


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## mrhoneydew (May 1, 2008)

sandy stone said:


> Why do you have to launch a spinnaker in 25 knots of wind, singlehanded?


You know... I kind of wondered the same thing, but I thought maybe there was something I don't know.


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## socal c25 (Nov 1, 2013)

I have a disability with my arms so the wheel is more comfortable for me, I do have a tiller on my Coronado 25, the boat is well balanced and there is little to no weather helm so I can handle it but for offshore I would go with a wheel.


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## mrhoneydew (May 1, 2008)

FoolishMuse said:


> my book is being put out on real paper by the good folks at International Marine. I was just told that it goes to the printer at the end of August and will hit the book shelves at the end of September.


By the way, what is the title of the book? Did I miss that somewhere?


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## FoolishMuse (Oct 12, 2006)

> Why do you have to launch a spinnaker in 25 knots of wind, singlehanded?


Because it's fun as hell. Learn how to do it, and then try it yourself and tell me if I'm wrong.

For me, it's like asking why do I have to sail at all.



> what is the title of the book?


The new published version is called "Singlehanded Sailing; Thoughts, Tips, Techniques & Tactics."
The book tells you everything you need to know on how to launch the chute - even without an autopilot.


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## mrhoneydew (May 1, 2008)

Interesting. My first thought is it's a good way to blow out a sail, which isn't to argue the point. I just wouldn't think to raise a spinnaker in that strong of wind. Would certainly get a boat moving! 

Thanks for the title. Certainly right up my alley.


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## FoolishMuse (Oct 12, 2006)

Na, you can fly a chute in much more wind than that without worry. 30-35 knots in any case. But at 25 the boat really starts to pick up and move. My boat will plane at that wind speed, but not at 20. Go figure.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

FoolishMuse said:


> The new published version is called "Singlehanded Sailing; Thoughts, Tips, Techniques & Tactics."
> The book tells you everything you need to know on how to launch the chute - even without an autopilot.


You can pre-order it on Amazon: Singlehanded Sailing: Thoughts, Tips, Techniques & Tactics: Andrew Evans: 9780071836531: Amazon.com: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@51LOmgx9WdL

But the funny part is the description on Amazon: 
Complete Guide to Classical Music is a clear, concise yet comprehensive introduction to the world of classical music for the newcomer.​
That sounds like a very comprehensive book


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

uh oh


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

FoolishMuse said:


> Na, you can fly a chute in much more wind than that without worry. 30-35 knots in any case. ......


Please. That's just showing off and extremely bad advice.


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## Dean101 (Apr 26, 2011)

BubbleheadMd said:


> Whether or not you need automated steering depends on the length, frequency and complexity of your singlehanded operations.
> 
> If you're daysailing or running jib and main on longer sails, Evan Andrews' rope/bungee/surgical tubing contraption is more than adequate.
> 
> ...


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## sandy stone (Jan 14, 2014)

FoolishMuse said:


> Na, you can fly a chute in much more wind than that without worry. 30-35 knots in any case. But at 25 the boat really starts to pick up and move. My boat will plane at that wind speed, but not at 20. Go figure.


You hoist the chute at 25 knots with the tiller between your knees? How did you get the bag on deck, hook it up, and get the pole up? And what kind of boat are we talking about anyway?


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

FoolishMuse said:


> There are several reasons I much prefer the tiller. Keep in mind my overriding philosophy that you absolutely must be able to sail your boat without an autopilot - because it WILL BREAK - ABSOLUTELY.


What about a wheel boat makes an autopilot more of a requirement than a tiller boat? I've singlehanded both without autopilots and didn't find there to be a big difference.



FoolishMuse said:


> Most (but not all) wheels are designed to be used standing, or at best in an uncomfortable sitting position. All tillers are designed to be used sitting. Singlehanders will want to sit when sailing for hours at a time.


The common wheel cockpit on a 30-35' boat puts you in about the same position as sailing on a tiller with a short extension. If you sit beside the wheel (not behind it) then everything is in easy view and reach.



FoolishMuse said:


> It is difficult to handle lines while at the same time handling a wheel.
> ...
> Finally, how much control do you have over a wheel with your feet/legs?


I find it easy to tack my boat, handle the spinnaker, or steer with my feet on a wheel boat.

I actually prefer tillers for their simplicity, but when reading your comments I wonder if you've spent significant time on a sailboat with a wheel. I didn't really want a wheel on my current boat, but liked everything else so I took it. Two years later (~100 days of sailing) the wheel works for me and I've become comfortable with it. I'd still like this boat with a tiller too. There are tradeoffs both ways, but I don't think either system is clearly inferior.


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## FoolishMuse (Oct 12, 2006)

> Please. That's just showing off and extremely bad advice.


Like anything, you work your way up to it. After a few times, spinnaker is docile in 15 knots of wind. At 20 its starting to get fun. Do that a bunch of times and it becomes nothing special. Then move up to 25. The biggest pain becomes that you have to sail upwind for 3 hours to get a 45 minute ride back downwind. It's like the old days when you had to climb a mountain before skiing down again.



> What about a wheel boat makes an autopilot more of a requirement than a tiller boat?


Sorry, when using the autopilot they are about the same. I was trying to make the point that the tiller is preferable when the autopilot is not working.



> I find it easy to tack my boat, handle the spinnaker, or steer with my feet on a wheel boat.


Absolutely, there are some boats where a wheel is well placed for singlehanding. I was trying to speak in generalities, where for nearly all boats the tiller is preferred. I've spent time on lots of boats with wheels and I've never found one that handled as well as a tiller for singlehanding - in my opinion. This is why they even put tillers on some Open 60's.



> You hoist the chute at 25 knots with the tiller between your knees? How did you get the bag on deck, hook it up, and get the pole up? And what kind of boat are we talking about anyway?


I do most of the setup work when sailing upwind with a bungee cord setup holding the tiller in place. Even putting the spinnaker pole up after I round a mark. Then I turn downwind and take off. 
I'm on an Olson 30, which is a pretty twitchy boat.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd suggest that sailors who want to tell us how easy it is to do something like set a spinnaker single handed in 30kts submit videos, so we all learn how to do it.

I'm inclined to like my boat, personage, standing rigging, running rigging, and sails too much to try it, but I'm willing to learn


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## FoolishMuse (Oct 12, 2006)

Unfortunately, taking a video of myself flying a chute in those conditions is beyond my ability. As I'm sure you understand, both hands are rather busy. The entire process is described in great detail in my book that is currently available free on the SFBay Singlehanded site. If you follow that advice you won't have any problems with raising or dousing the chute. I've done it enough times to know that for certain.

I tried to upload a photo of my broken mast taken last fall in the aftermath of a spinnaker run on a 25 knot day, but the system won't let me. An old splice in the spectra backstay broke. Like any sport, if you push to the limits things are going to break. Just on Wednesday I ran on the rocks while raising my chute during a race - but that was my own stupidity.

But with all that I've been through, I've still never had a bad day sailing  Not one! In fact I'm going out again in 15 minutes.

Have fun out there. I know that I will!


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

Hey Foolish, admitting that it can go wrong is all anyone can ask. Sail on, and have fun!

(get a GoPro and a clamp for the stern rail, bet a couple of vids would help sell your book, seriously, I know I'd watch em).


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

FoolishMuse said:


> ......... Like any sport, if you push to the limits things are going to break......


I have enough break without pushing the limits. But, good to hear you add that perspective to your advice.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

FoolishMuse said:


> Na, you can fly a chute in much more wind than that without worry. 30-35 knots in any case...


Not sure whom you mean by "you," but your statement would depend heavily on the skills of the "you" that you are referring to. There are many novices here who may follow your advice and really shouldn't.

I know that I am very careful to consider potential liability when I give advice here, and there are some topics that I won't touch because of the potential for injury or death if somebody misreads (or I misstate) what I meant to say.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

FoolishMuse said:


> Na, you can fly a chute in much more wind than that without worry. 30-35 knots in any case. But at 25 the boat really starts to pick up and move. My boat will plane at that wind speed, but not at 20. Go figure.


I like to wait for a gale warning, then get liquored up and dock with the spinnaker.


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## Westsailforever (Jul 9, 2014)

Back to the wheel / tiller thing , if the wheel is what you want than by all means get the wheel . If you think it's better , it is . My boat is tiller , but I sail on my friends boat all the time . He has a beautiful 96' Catalina 32 . When I steer the boat it's a hoot, I steer it back wards like a tiller. Here is a pic of the great Don Jon texing while steering . By the way Don single hands all the time .(Nobody can stand to watch him tex).


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## mrhoneydew (May 1, 2008)

Thank you Westsailforever for bringing us back.  I think some discussion of what one can do more or less easily solo with a tiller vs. wheel is valid, but it is also possible to wander off a bit from that topic.

So far there are not "Text and Sail" laws, so I guess your friend is safe. For the time being anyway.


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## Westsailforever (Jul 9, 2014)

By the way Mr. dew what boats are you looking at ? Also I take it you are also looking at a self steering vane . There is some real cool stuff out there for DIYer
http://www.svsarana.com/selfsteering.php


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## FoolishMuse (Oct 12, 2006)

> Na, you can fly a chute in much more wind than that without worry. 30-35 knots in any case. But at 25 the boat really starts to pick up and move. My boat will plane at that wind speed, but not at 20. Go figure.


Yes, you do have to keep in mind that I've flown my chute singlehanded at least a thousand times (no kidding) so perhaps I do have more experience than most.

Had a great time on Saturday. It was blowing 23 when I launched and of course the chute went up with an hourglass. I dropped the halyard by 3' and it opened up perfectly.

The photo above is one of the best examples I can point to as to why a wheel is not ideal for singlehanding. When I'm sitting at my tiller in the perfectly normal sitting position, I am always within easy reach of the main sheet, jib sheet, spinnaker sheet and guy. I don't have to move out of my normal sitting position to control any one of these. This is very important to me because it means that I never have a delay when I'm working those lines. And I never have an excuse of not getting off my bum to make a tiny adjustment to a line.

In the photo it is quite obvious that he would have to move out of position to make an adjustment to any line. I can tell you that after singlehanding for 6 hours straight, would he really want to get up to let the jib sheet out by 2" because the outside telltale was fluttering? And will he do that the 99th time?

Of course I will always point back to my main advice that the best boat for singlehanding is the one you already own, and the worst boat is the one that you will buy "next year". But all else being equal, I'll stick with the advice that the tiller is best.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

FoolishMuse said:


> The photo above is one of the best examples I can point to as to why a wheel is not ideal for singlehanding. When I'm sitting at my tiller in the perfectly normal sitting position, I am always within easy reach of the main sheet, jib sheet, spinnaker sheet and guy. I don't have to move out of my normal sitting position to control any one of these. This is very important to me because it means that I never have a delay when I'm working those lines. And I never have an excuse of not getting off my bum to make a tiny adjustment to a line.


Ah but you forgot to note that he is within easy reach of his beer. Priorities, Priorities....


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## Westsailforever (Jul 9, 2014)

One negative for me about a tiller is when I'm sitting at the tiller looking forward my neck hurts after a few hrs.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

thats a big ole tiller, double handing it! jajaja classic

fwiw I remembered mentioning the wheel forward and tiller stub exposed a while ago...

found a pic of my old boat(islander 34) if anybody is interested in the wheel forwad and tiller stub behind "theory" jajaja



the wheel is forward at the bridgedeck, allows for protection by way of dodger and still good visability(semi hard dodger) since the traveller is out back like older boom end mainsheet boats you dont necessarily block the companionway...so its a compromise.

a good one I feel...plus being midships like that you are not as exposed.

this boat was left with the stub exposed at the cockpit sole...meaning it only took a quick second to attach the tiller which I still had if the wheel steering crapped out or the wheel pilot failed and say I wanted or had a tiller pilot that would be a quick way to get autosteering again(electric)

not seen in the pic is the trusty old aries windvane which was the primary selfsteering device...

sad to sell this boat really...but hey! a brief happy time with any boat is good in my book.

cheers


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## mrhoneydew (May 1, 2008)

Thank you Chistian! There is a Pearson 36 I have had my eye on with the same set-up except the traveler is just forward of the wheel. I haven't been out on a boat with this configuration, but I wondered if the wheel feels in the way going down below? Anything you didn't particularly like about it compared to a more traditional layout?


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

see if it had a traveller on the bridgeck it would drive me crazy...first off I woulndt be able to have the dodger like that since most likely the boom would be mid point attached...

I liked this setup A LOT for downwind sailing...as I was more midships and felt secure withing the lee of the dodger and protection from the coamings, birdgdeck etc

the wheel pilot was an old st4000 that snaps in place real quick...yes the belt angle was a bit off so I had to snap it on and off(clutch) every once in a while

when sailing down the coast of california I would often sit on the poop deck getting some wind and rays... looking and adjusting the main sheet and "traveller"...

if I would have guests on board or crew on say a downwind leg they would sit aft of me, if I were on an upwind leg then I would be right behind the companionway sides to either sides up forward peeking my head over the coamings...having a real nice view of my sails and angle, and heading etc...

crew again would be on the rails(if this where a race boat) or at least on the windward side behind me.

honestlty this boat was setup real well, the wheel comversion was MASSIVE and was a very quick 1 turn lock to lock...meaning it was almost tiller like on how quick you could change course...you could almost SCULL it with the wheel! jajaja

peace

ps here is another pic showing the boom end and mainsheet:


the one thing with this setup that I didnt like and can happen and actually did, was that in a wild uncontrolled or planned gybe its possible to get slapped by the mainsheet while it slams from side to side...its the perfect HAT dissapearing act show! jajaja

other than that...loved it.
right at the lower corner of the companionway you can see a german manual knotmeter, it had a beatiful turbine type prop on the hull, and it was extremely precise...cable operated and matched my gps to the decimal...it was impressive...and funny story I managed to peg it a couple of times by mistake...when I got caught in heavy winds off santa cruz and was solo and blew out a jib and broke one of the boom end loops off the boom in the gybe I was talking about

they say there is a bonehead award being given away every once in a while

thats my entry for it! jajajaja

peace

good luck with the pearson 36


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

christian.hess said:


> see if it had a traveller on the bridgeck it would drive me crazy...first off I woulndt be able to have the dodger like that since most likely the boom would be mid point attached...


My Pearson 28-2 has near end boom sheeting (technically the mainsheet blocks are about 15% in from the end of the boom, but they are just forward of the clew) and a traveler on the bridgedeck. It still allows for a dodger that covers the entire companionway and which provides light side protection.

This photo (taken when measuring my old main sail) shows the geometry pretty well:









For summer cruising (when there is a lot of sun) I also have a bimini that provides coverage from behind the main sheet to the back of the cockpit. The bridgedeck traveler does prevent me from linking the dodger and bimini, but overall I like having the traveler there compared to any other option.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

cool again boat dependant...wouldnt of worked well for my old boat since its dependant on boom length and where its attached as clearly seen in my pic

yours is a high aspect ratio main more common with todays modern boats, thats why it works for you, having said that I notice the mainsheet is angled back slightly at center...not ideal however it works obviously.

nice boat btw


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