# Small compressor for diving.



## PDixon (Aug 29, 2001)

I would like to clean to and inspect the bottom of my boat but do not want to have to hold my breath. I was wondering if I could use the small air compressor I bought at home depot. This electric compressor will put out a max of 120 lbs of pressure. The idea is I could spice the air hose from the compressor to the air hose from a diving regulator. As I would only use this to clean my bottom I would not be diving deeper than 10 Ft. Before I did any of this I would go to an approved school and get a dive cert. But is there anything wrong with this idea.


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## Sasha_V (Feb 28, 2004)

The short answer is errr...kind of...but it depends on how fond of your lungs you are.

Couple of things to consider form a technical standpoint. firstly, those little compressors work in "puffs" and do not provide a continous stream of air. This makes for lousy breathing.
So one of the first things you would need to do is create a "bottle" like the tank that ges with regular air compresors. This evens out the flow by having a pressure reserve an providing a stream of air-on-demand. There are numerouse things that can be used to "improvise" this device for non breathing use, things like propane cylanders, and such (or for thecase of an air-brush using friend of mine, the inner-tube to a wheelbarrow tyre). 

Second tech point.
Compressors designed for providing breathable air have different seals, lines and piston rings (and lube) to the ones that are designed for inflating tyres. Basically the reason that a divers hookah is so much more expensive is that it has to emit NON TOXIC air fit for human consumption. On the other hand, the unit you are propsing uses mineral oil for lube, likely a fibre-lined aluminium for piston rings and vulcanised rubber seals and O-rings that happily send that fine black rubber dust along the line with the air.
Bad news for breathing.
Now combine the two issues of the improvised pressure bottle and the unsuitable compressor.... A screaming headache is the luckiest thing you could come away with.

Think of it this way, if even large type compressors (such as used at gas stations) produced breathing quality air, would not have someone come up with an adaptor to refill dive cylanders form the gas station by now instead of paying dollars to get it done at a dive shop?

All air aint good air, even for L.A residents.

If you have no real interest in diving apart from cleaning your boat hull, you can usually make a deal with local divers (usually kids) to turn up every few weeks and do it for you. Our 16yo entreprenaur gets $20Australian every dive, about once every month in these waters. Much cheaper the a PADDI course and regulator. He even checks the length of the mooring chain to see if shackles need replacing or anything.


Sasha


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## hamiam (Dec 15, 2000)

Absolutly not. The air will contain dangerous amounts of CO and other contaminants the effect of which on your body would be intensified by being under water. I take it your are not a diver but if you were for about $10 you could rent a filled tank from the dive store.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Previous replys are 100% correct, DON''T DO IT. Now I must admit that when in high school I used just such a device as you describe. For past 30 years I have used compressed air breathers professionally, most compressor oils (e.g. Ambesol) are labeled as carcinogens, even those designed for use to fill air bottles. The systems designed for breathing air use 4 or 5 stage high pressure filters and a carbon monoxide detector. It takes very little CO to make the air unfit for use, here in Los Angeles sometimes just the ambient level of CO is too high to fill bottles. I haven''t looked lately but there used to be devices made for this purpose, some even on floats. I think these may no longer be available due to health reasons, you can''t have a gas engine running anywhere in the vicinity of the compressor intake and get acceptable CO levels.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

They do still make devices as I decribed above see: http://www.scuba.com/shop/product.asp_category_152_categoryname_Hooka%2BSystems
Looks like $800 minimum & you should still be certified, looks like it would be cheaper to get certified and use a bottle on the dock with long hose & regulator.


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## PDixon (Aug 29, 2001)

Ok I get it. It''s not a good idea. A few clarifiing points, The compressor is electric. I has a 2 gal tank. and it is an oil-less compressor. That being said I realise that it would be better and safer to go the more traditional and safer route with a tank
Thanks for all your input
Paul


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I have a Brownie''s electric third lung compresser and a 75 foot line I use to clean my boat bottom. Picked it up for $600 used. You just change the air intake filter when needed and you can dive all day on your boat. Just looked in a Brownie''s catalog and you can by a small electric one new for $800 with hoses,reg,ect. They are located in Ft Lauderdale,FL or on the web at WWW.browniedive.com Get dive certified any way, you will never regret doing it and it is good for life.


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## mcjohnruther (Dec 26, 2009)

PDixon said:


> I would like to clean to and inspect the bottom of my boat but do not want to have to hold my breath. I was wondering if I could use the small air compressor I bought at home depot. This electric compressor will put out a max of 120 lbs of pressure. The idea is I could spice the air hose from the compressor to the air hose from a diving regulator. As I would only use this to clean my bottom I would not be diving deeper than 10 Ft. Before I did any of this I would go to an approved school and get a dive cert. But is there anything wrong with this idea.


Hi,

Diving is good and gutsy act. Why I am saying this is for first thing's first. I would love to pose you something into your mind that its too easy to do such things as we have enough technology to clean up the bottom of your boat and of curse without drowning too deep into the water.

Regards,
mcjohnruther


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## ryanjenkins (Dec 17, 2009)

I have done this on a friends boat before and just fabricated an extremely long snorkel out of a garden hose...


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

ryanjenkins said:


> I have done this on a friends boat before and just fabricated an extremely long snorkel out of a garden hose...


Bullchit.
Your lungs won't pull surface air down through a snorkel deeper than about 18 inches, and that's the max if you have strong lungs. And you would be too busy trying to breathe to get any word done.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

You guys understand that you're replying to a post that is almost 6 years old?


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Fstbttms said:


> You guys understand that you're replying to a post that is almost 6 years old?


I wonder if PDixon ever did get his bottom cleaned?????


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

Fstbttms said:


> You guys understand that you're replying to a post that is almost 6 years old?


Wrong. I responded to a post that was an hour old.


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## TAK (Jul 14, 2003)

For what its worth the guy who cleans the bottom of Mahalo uses a regular 80 tank left on the dock with a regulator that has a 50-60 foot high pressure hose attached to a full face mask.. 
Seem to work fine for him.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Do a google search for hookah diving equipment. Ebay has the best prices. These systems are very popular at the marina we are in. The important part is having an aluminum tank, filter and hospital grade hose. We use the pancake compressor bought at Home Depot and it works fine.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Very important to have an oil-less compressor.


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## NICHOLSON58 (Feb 22, 2009)

Just look in the backs of almost any sailing magazine and find about 3 to 5 manufacturers of compressor you can run from on deck, in the dink, or on its own float. Some may be able to operate two or more hoses. They have regulators and some allow dives up to 60 feet. You should take dive classes to use one of these especially if you intend to go deeper than ten feet. If you do dive deep I strongly suggest you invest in an emergency air bottle like the tiny ones James Bond used on more than one thrilling escape. 

These systems are gas or electric and their advantage is that you are not tied to a refill station. For occasional bottom work or for retrieving a fouled anchor these are quite useful. Most offer water-tight containers for on-deck storage. Make sure you know how to maintain it and carry spare parts.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

"like the tiny ones James Bond used on more than one thrilling escape."
Do you mean the one the size of a pen he put in his mouth? Where can I get one?


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

MeckDC said:


> Do a google search for hookah diving equipment. Ebay has the best prices. These systems are very popular at the marina we are in. The important part is having an aluminum tank, filter and hospital grade hose. We use the pancake compressor bought at Home Depot and it works fine.


Recipe for disaster.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Scubapumps

They have a small one person one that I plan to get for cleaning bottoms. After I take a class for diving.


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

Diving class is always a good idea, and it's a good idea just because it's a fun thing to do. And can lead to a lifetime of new stuff and enjoyment.

There are at least three companies making small 12 vdc hookahs. Probably more. IF all you really are ever going to do is dive down say six to ten feet and clean a hull, there are two things you need to know about breathing compressed air. Well, really three things. The first of the three things is always: 
Don't panic.

But the practical things are to 1.) never hold your breath while underwater. Keep breathing in and out. If you don't hold a breath, you probably won't get in trouble. If you are under and the compressor stops, you start exhaling as you slowly surface. Just don't hold your breath. The reason is that the air you are breathing even at ten feet down is compressed, and takes up less volume than surface air. If you fill your lungs with it, and then hold it and surface, it is going to expand. This can cause problems, even from ten feet, if you have enough air in your lungs to overstretch the tissue.

2.)Second rule is not to ever pass your bubbles going up. Just don't do anything fast, and this ties in with the Don't Panic mode. There are a number of things that can startle you underwater while working along on your hull. Something might bump you. A scary fish might surprise you. A crab might grab you. You might knock your mask off and get water in your eyes and nose. the compressor might stop, etc. DON't panic. Just think to yourself, aw shucks...gotta go up. DON't drop your weights and shoot to the surface like a Polaris missile. You can bump your head. You can get tangled up in a rudder or prop. You can forget the other rule and hold your breath. 

Really, the rest of what you learn in a dive class is more important if you are spending time below two atmospheres ( about 33 ft.) and how to treat various things, and how to best use all the equipment that the shop giving you the dive course is going to want to sell you. 


It just occurred to me that if you didn't want to take the full certification course, you could probably do just fine by taking one of the short Resort Courses they give you as kind of an introduction to SCUBA. That's really all you need to know if all you want to do is clean your hull.

Oh, you will need some kind of weight belt, by the way, to hold you under. And you will have to find ways to brace yourself so you can get some traction for exerting force to clean the hull.

What I do ( I have a Brownies Third Lung gasoline powered hookah with three hoses) is to anchor the boat in a nice sandy spot in the lee somewhere with no current and minimal waves in about six or seven feet of water. That lets me brace my feet against the bottom and scrub the hull. Water is shallow enough that if you drop a tool or something you can just bend over and get it. And you can't get into any depth related problems.


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

to all of you darwin award candidates...

yes you can dive using this stuff, and perhaps it will be uneventful for you...but is it really worth dying to save a $100 hull cleaning bill...when you have no clue what you are fixing to do or how to do it?

As to the "spare air" containers...you better learn a bit about them...before you COUNT on them to save your life...you may get 10 breaths out of one, if you are trained, capable and don't panic

Scraping bottoms...are you going to enjoy eating (unless you have a full face mask, or hazmat) now broken barnacles, pollution and such...and are you going to find a decent wet suit or dry suit that will not shred when you "brush" against the barnacles and you will...or sure just slap some weights on...without regard to buoyancy or what happens if you have strapped on too much and can't get off the bottom while you regulator is "just a few feet" away..

get certified at least before you tempt these fates...and then you can tell which internet comments are clueless...and can get you hurt


and yes I am PADI AOW certified
dave


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

> yes you can dive using this stuff, and perhaps it will be uneventful for you...but is it really worth dying to save a $100 hull cleaning bill.


Yes, it's worth it to me.

I see the commercial dock divers in our neck of the woods using compressors instead of tanks. I've read on a few other sites plans for the do-it yourselfer to build your own hookah outfits using oiless compressors from home-depot.

So what's the real scoop? Are they good enough or not?


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

Just went to a diving forum and it looks like the little oiless compressors from home depot would work just fine. Anyone know for sure otherwise?


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

I just don't see how a small oilless compressor, especially a gas driven one is going to give you good air...unattended...I too have seen the local guys use some claptrap, rube goldberg device to dive, but then they all break every common sense dive rule known in doing so...

always dive with a buddy
know your gear
plan your dive, dive your plan
be prepared, crap happens
etc

Never have I seen a "helper/watcher/buddy" on deck to plug the unit back in, or refuel/restart when it runs out. Or prepared to help him out. Add in the pollution, shock hazard, barnacle infections...

Actually one guy near me just lugs all his "dive gear" in a wheelbarrow, bangs out the last day's goop from his regulator, dons his wet suit and plunges in. Then gets out, plugs in the compressor, unkinks the hose, and tries again.

Yes he is still alive, 

I have said enough, you guys just do what you want to...

dave


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

If you're cleaning the bottom you're down less than 10'. If the compressor stops, or it the hose kinks at that depth you just surface slowly breathing out. As long as you have an oil-less compressor and a good reg with some weights and a wet or dry suit I don't see what could be an issue.


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## Bermudahigh (Nov 17, 2007)

here's a useful link: Brownie's Third Lung : Surface Supplied Diving


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

I love watching the "Certified Divers" come down here outfitted like the instrument panel of a fighter jet, totally convinced that they need all that stuff.

When I learned to dive it was with a Navy UDT friend of the family's, and we had a Healthways double hose regulator that only worked right if you were in a certain position, and a wrist watch and depth guage. And that was 47 years ago. Nothing about breathing compressed air has changed in all that time. The tables are a little looser than they were, but the physiology is the same.

Hey, I must be dead by now, huh? I just noticed my wristwatch ain't NEARLY big enough to be a diver's...


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

> And that was 47 years ago. Nothing about breathing compressed air has changed in all that time. The tables are a little looser than they were, but the physiology is the same.


Holy Cow!. Do you know Mike Nelson? My son got certified about ten years ago so I had a diving partner there for a while until he went off to college. When I saw his new dive tables, I kept looking for the little decompression stop. They're not on the news ones and it took me a little while to figure out what was going on. I hear what you're saying about all the fancy stuff too. Heck, they have heads up displays now in the masks.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

zz4gta said:


> Scubapumps


Here's a tip from someone who uses an electric hookah every day to earn his living, and has done for fifteen years- any oilless compressor will work. They don't make a small compressor specifically designed for diving applications, every commercially available consumer-level hookah from Brownies on down is repurposing a compressor that was intended to do something else. That being said, while a cheapo, Home Depot special will do the job, there are better alternatives. Yes, they cost more. But they will last longer. But maybe you don't care since you will only be diving on your own boat. Whatever- it's your dime.

Here is the compressor most professional hull cleaners use, if they are using a hookah:










The Thomas 1020 is available at ToolBarn.com and Amazon.com. They generally run about $325. They are lightweight, rugged and durable. I, and all my divers, use them without exception.

Here's another tip- the link above shows some hookahs built around standard, off-the-shelf compressors. My guess is the compressors are cheap Chinese knock-offs. At least one is plumbed with steel reserve tanks. Not only are reserve tanks generally unnecessary, IMHO, but mild steel tanks like these will rust out in short order, leaving you breathing mud. The fact that this web site is selling hookahs based on inferior compressors is a big red flag, IMHO.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Fastbottoms,
Thanks for your reply. I picked up a wet suit and snorkel gear to try that for a while, but what else would I need to make that particular compressor ussfull for hull cleaning? I know I'll need a regulator, any fitting?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Dave-
"always dive with a buddy" Actually that was a hot subject for debate even 25 years ago, because divers tend to DIE in pairs as the result of buddy diving. USCG, DAN, all found that time and again, one diver gets in trouble, the buddy either tries to help or gets involved, and both die. Of course there are no stats on 'saves' so there is only debate, but I think even PADI (the 'certificate of the day' folks) offer a "solo diving" certificate now.

Diving has radically changed. Back then, most divers used the WW2 USN tables--and ignored the fact that those tables were "warm water, no wetsuit needed, prime healthy male" tables. At a seminar given by a USN diving medical officer, I asked "And since we all need wetsuits here, aren't we supposed to move up one interval in these tables?" and I think the room was shocked when he said "Yes, or use the cold water tables."

Now everyone is hooked on computers (which may be more accurate but probably eliminate some safety margin inherent in the conservative tables) and "Nitrox" which probably is a good thing--but nowhere near the big deal the marketers would make of it. (Hey, it's still "air" and if you use the appropriate table, what's the big deal?)

My instructor was indeed a veteran ww2 "frogman" who told us that simply inhaling, holding a deep breath, and shifting from a horizontal position to a vertical one (in the water) could cause enough of a pressure change to blow out some lungs. Not typical--but possible. Someone with no training at all, could still get into trouble with a "mild" compressor in a situation like that. 

So..."just" using a compressor at ten feet, shouldn't be a problem, but still could be a danger for some folks.


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

After several incidents in which I had to abort a job to help another diver, I stopped diving with a 'buddy' back when I was using SCUBA to install oceanographic instrumentation in the 70's. I found that the job went quicker, and safer, if I did not have to keep my eye on someone else all the time. I was able to concentrate on myself and my work without distractions. I remember one job in which I had to dive down to a series of bottom mounted tide recorders just outside Boston Harbor weekly, with the deepest one at 130 ft. I planned the bounces and surface time so I didn't have to make a lot of extra decomp stops. It was important to me to not be distracted from the job, because the narcosis typically hits me around 95-100 ft and it was okay when I anticipated it. It took me 3-5 minutes to remove the tide guages and replace them with a fresh one, and a couple extra minutes here and there screwed up my whole dive plan.

I found that I much, much prefer to dive alone when working. If there are other people in the water around me, I feel like the old lifeguard who has to keep an eye on everything. And I don't want to be the lifeguard. I enjoy the diving. And to me, it's a solitary pastime. A peaceful place to be. Until some bozo keeps flashing his newly learned hand signals in my face every few minutes to tell me he's okay, and expecting me to tell him that I'm okay...

When what I really want him to do is go climb on the boat and leave me alone.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

zz4gta said:


> Fastbottoms,
> Thanks for your reply. I picked up a wet suit and snorkel gear to try that for a while, but what else would I need to make that particular compressor ussfull for hull cleaning? I know I'll need a regulator, any fitting?


I have always bought my 2nd stage regs from Innovative Designs in Florida. The regs they sell are designed for use in a hookah system and my experience is they perform flawlessly with little or no maintenance. Here is a link:

Super Snorkel

To attach the hose (breathing grade only) to the compressor, most guys just use brass hose fittings, quick-disconnects and hose clamps. Nothing special.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Bermudahigh said:


> here's a useful link: Brownie's Third Lung : Surface Supplied Diving


I don't know about these hookahs, but those red and white stripped front mounted bcd's are NICE!


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## 2Gringos (Jan 4, 2008)

That one in the lower left of the brochure is the one we have. Subaru gasoline engine. We get about four hours of diving on a half gallon of gasoline. I have three regulators, and Brownies supplied me with the hoses cut in 20 ft. lengths. I can put three people to sixty-seventy feet but typically won't. Almost all the fun stuff to see is shallower than 30 ft. I give them a 20 ft. hose until I can acertain how comfy they are breathing underwater. That's plenty good for lots of fun reef diving, etc. down to 10-12 ft. If it's someone who knows what they are doing, another diver, etc. I can clip more hose on in 20 ft. sections. as needed. 40 ft. of hose will get you below two atmospheres, but just barely and you have to work at it. On the other hand, if I need to bounce down to a hundred feet, I can do that, too. Rarely happens.

Time at depth is one of the aspects of hookah diving that can get you in trouble without training. You could easily go to 50 ft. and be there for hours...this is something that needs an experienced diver to take control of.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

2Gringos said:


> Hey, I must be dead by now, huh? I just noticed my wristwatch ain't NEARLY big enough to be a diver's...


Great line.


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## j34035 (Nov 10, 2006)

Fast,
Any opinions on full face masks?
DD


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

j34035 said:


> Fast,
> Any opinions on full face masks?
> DD


I love my full face mask mask and would never consider boat bottom cleaning without it. I use the no frills IST mask that is available just about everywhere online. But it has to be made of silicone, not rubber. This is critical as the rubber mask will deteriorate and crack in a very short time.


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