# Don't be so hard on the new guys



## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

My wife and I have been sailing the Eastern US in our 30' C&C for 3 years now. We decided to charter a 36' mono-hull this past April. We ended up here on Friday the 18th "Good Friday" The mooring field was, as some have mentioned almost full. There was other charter boats racing each other to the few available balls left. The other couple with us had the job of shorting the dinghy line at all stops. “Well” We missed the ball twice and were blown off by the wind. 25kts and had to circle around. On my 3rd attempt he still missed the ball with the hook. I had a lot of on lookers by this point and became one of the people you guys are talking about. The Noobie! Sorry. It gets worse. I backed up on the last miss in hopes of giving my first mate a second chance. Well the long dinghy line was sucked into the prop and cut the line. I shut the engine down and we began the emergency procedure to stop us from colliding into other yachts. We got the finders out and deployed. I jumped into the dinghy and wedged it between the two boats. The yacht we eased up against were home and deployed there finders as well. After we were tied securely to their yacht, I jumped into dive mode to free the furled line from the prop and shaft. I had done this over and over at home to make sure I had the skills I needed on the charter. I learned a great deal and came back home alive. I did not mean any harm and thought I had the skill set needed to moor the yacht. It’s different in heavy wind and sea. Your crew has to know what to do in a crisis. Try to remember when you were learning the ropes. You made mistakes too I’m sure. All ended we’ll no damage to either yacht or people. My Pride will be forever damaged.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

why is your pride damaged? have at it...keep doing it...get better and have FUN...

good on ya for not giving up...


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

Sounds like you handled the crisis very well. Learn from your mistakes.


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## jerryRiggin (Jul 7, 2011)

You know what they say "Try, try again"...
Kudos!


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

The line around the prop is the classic story you hear over and over again. 

As for crew training - I would love to read a thread on that. Seems like a big subject. The person with the boat hook is , for a brief moment - the most important person.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

as the captain you dont always have to be at the helm, for example here if your crew cant pick up, can she he man the helm?

its great to have all crew be able to do everythying however sometimes people excell at different things...so take advantage of that

cheers


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

Well? We were in a completely packed field of charter boats with maybe 3 open. Three other boats were racing each other to other two as they could tell I had this ball. The wind was in its second day of over 22 knots. I was not comfortable letting anybody else man the helm. You had to creep fwd /Neural, fwd /Neural, keeping very careful not to fall off nose to wind. A complete pass threw was required if we fell off. That made it tough to let someone have the helm.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

Nearly 30 years ago, when we started sailing bigger boats, we had days just like you described. They happen less often now, but they still happen.

Good for you, you are out there doing it, and that's what counts! Sail on.


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## alex_sauvage (Aug 31, 2012)

I am wondering if in this situation it would be better to back up to the mooring ball? It would prevent the bow being blown sideways and will make it easier to pickup the line, since you can do it from the water level on the swimming platform. That approach has been discussed a number of time here, but I don't recall what was the consensus.


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## Steady Hand (Jun 11, 2014)

Howdy!

Don't feel too bad. Mooring is a skill (takes practice) and in a strong breeze and chop it is much harder. 

Sounds like you responded well and a lesson was learned (and reinforced for us readers) about the dinghy painter (being wound/cut). 

Don't forget, even very experienced "masters" make mistakes (Titantic anyone?). 

Keep sailing, keep learning!


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

I'm the new guy too.. I've not had to lasso a mooring (ever).. so you probably did better than me! Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger (and a better sailor too)... 

Anyone who stares at you like you have 3 heads taking 3 shots to grab a mooring, smile and hand them a beer... DONE.

I'll never forget one of our bob-and-bake races... one of the other racers was windward, and was steering down on me to keep wind, wasn't malicious, but steering was pretty gone... when he got within 3 feet, I said... You know it's OK to foul me in light air cause you can't steer in a race and all, but you ought to at least offer me a beer when you do...  best race ever... They did and we laughed about it all the way to the finish. Sometimes its best to accept defeat gracefully, take a bow, laugh at yourself, and move on. 

Gotta learn it somehow! That includes myself.


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## knuterikt (Aug 7, 2006)

Most of us have had ****-ups small or large, what's important is to be able to learn from it.
The last thing you need is a "blame game"

Disclaimer: 
I was not there so I will make wrong asumptions

I will make some comments in your text in *bold*



ltgoshen said:


> My wife and I have been sailing the Eastern US in our 30' C&C for 3 years now.
> We decided to charter a 36' mono-hull this past April. We ended up here on Friday the 18th "Good Friday" The mooring field was, as some have mentioned almost full.
> There was other charter boats racing each other to the few available balls left.
> *Letting circumstances like this lead you into doing any things before the ship is ready is asking for trouble*
> ...


It is always wise to do a debrief after a sail, even more important after an experience like you had.
It's important that the debrief is done in civil setting w/o finding the offender.
When things go wrong it's in most cases a chain of events.

Planning before executing is always a good thing, have a contingency plan (if the engine stops where would we need fenders..)

Even if my wife & I have sailed together for more than 30 years, we will talk through the plan before executing if is anything out of the ordinary.
With novice crew explain why and how.

A Mooring hook like this is nice to have to make fast (rope tied on to the closed loop and the boat) Nawa ® Safe & Easy Boating
This hook is not used permanent but to hook on to the ball - afterwards we tie on to the mooring (mine is 1 meter long)


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

Hey, I pulled in to the Staniel Cay fuel dock one time, and the opposing wind and tide, just made a complete idiot out of me. I didn't hit anything or anybody (although I came close) but I have no doubt that people watching (and there were a lot that day, of course) were taking bets on whether I had five minutes, or ten minutes, boating experience.


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## ArgleBargle (Jan 8, 2007)

agree there are many mistakes to be made, and we have made many of them.

also agree with poster who suggested picking up from the stern. if chop/swell is not too bad we (a couple) always do it this way with one on the helm and one with a boat hook. as alex_sauvage mentioned, no problem with bow falling off since wind now working in your favour. both people within feet of each other so no yelling and no communications problems and both people have excellent (and virtually the same) visibility. if you have a swim platform, hardly any reaching and pulling compared to hauling up from the bow. dead slow and when the ball is hooked, puff of forward to prevent running over it (which has never been an issue). tie off to a stern cleat, take a rest, and when convenient, walk the line forward to a bow cleat when necessary with a bit of forward throttle to help). have never missed one and never run over one and best of all, no yelling.

that said, we're not comfortable doing it in big swell (unlikely in an anchorage, especially in BC where we sail, but have encountered a couple of times in the leewards and picked up conventionally from the bow to avoid shenanigans) or when current and wind are completely opposite.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

For close to 10 years now just like my other club members we have boats on the river and the current + wind are often running the same direction which makes the quick pick up and tie off, very necessary. Most times I can do solo, it but a few times I've had a problem, one time nearly broke my arm when the wind moved the boat to starboard. It does take time to know the inertia of one's own boat. I don't know how one would learn it on a charter. Caring or knowing if people are watching no longer affects my judgment on things like this.

ltgoshen you did fine!


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## MikeGuyver (Dec 13, 2008)

There's an old saying "show me someone that never makes a mistake and I'll show you someone that never does anything". Learn from it and move on. Use it to be more sympathetic to someone else when you see them have trouble. I've found that attitude makes more friends than mocking or heckling ever has.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

ltgoshen said:


> My Pride will be forever damaged.


I don't give a rats bum how many times I miss a mooring ball, or drag when trying to set.

I just go do it again from the very beginning. I go way back out and line it up again slowly and try again.

Once I miss theres no chance the boat will go near the mooring ball if I reverse or try some trick.

Yes it can be a pain if the last mooring ball is being descended upon by a whole fleet. Thats where one always needs to be happy to anchor instead.

With 3 years experience you are not a learner so stop _feeling_ like you are a learner. Look at an old timer... they never kick the cat because they mess up, they just lick the salt off their lips and do it again 

Mark


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

ltgoshen said:


> Your crew has to know what to do in a crisis.





Sal Paradise said:


> As for crew training - I would love to read a thread on that. Seems like a big subject. The person with the boat hook is , for a brief moment - the most important person.





SHNOOL said:


> I'm the new guy too.. I've not had to lasso a mooring (ever).. so you probably did better than me!


Crew, or their absence, can make a big difference in how well things go. Very often a particular evolution goes better if inexperienced crew sit down and stay put. *grin* Unfortunately inexperienced crew never become experienced without training, coaching, and practice. Often that means the most experienced person should be freed up to coach. On a boat with plenty of people, ltgoshen _could_ have put someone else on the wheel and coached that person while also coaching the bowman. Now I wasn't there and I don't know the skills and personalities aboard so I'm NOT saying he should have done as I describe, only that it is an alternative approach.

A story:

Janet and I were hanging on a mooring at Cooper Island in the BVI when a boat comes into the mooring field. There was plenty of room and they weren't doing anything obviously wrong but since they were the only thing moving we watched. After they failed to pick up the mooring five times (!) I got in the dinghy to go help. The moorings all have pendants so it is usually pretty easy to hook up. In the time it took me to dinghy over they had shifted their attention to another ball and failed to pick it up a couple of times; I guess they thought the first ball was somehow "broken." *grin* They were just shifting to a third ball when I reached them, grabbed the pendant from the water and handed it up to them. At that point it became clear they didn't know what to do with it, so I hooked the float behind the bow cleat until they dug out a dock line to run through the thimble (too small to fit over the cleat). It turned out the six guys aboard were from the Annapolis Yacht Club celebrating CBYRA high point honors for the year with a boy's cruise charter in the BVI! First rate sailors and racers but no meaningful experience with mooring or anchoring. They learned fast though - we saw them around the islands over the next couple of weeks and they got pretty good.

Something I see among people new to mooring is holding the boat hook too high. Keep it down just inches from the water as you approach the ball. Swinging or stabbing at the pendant from high above is hard. Small movements are quicker and easier.

For mooring balls without a pendant I use a mooring clip ( http://www.bosunsupplies.com/Stainless-Steel-Mooring-Hook-Kit-C0182-K120.html ) attached to a snubber. I like the mooring hook pictured earlier in the thread - I can see that coming in handy for lots of things.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

alex_sauvage said:


> I am wondering if in this situation it would be better to back up to the mooring ball? It would prevent the bow being blown sideways and will make it easier to pickup the line, since you can do it from the water level on the swimming platform. That approach has been discussed a number of time here, but I don't recall what was the consensus.


Seriously, back a sailboat with a square stern into 20 knots in a straight line


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

alex_sauvage said:


> I am wondering if in this situation it would be better to back up to the mooring ball? It would prevent the bow being blown sideways and will make it easier to pickup the line, since you can do it from the water level on the swimming platform. That approach has been discussed a number of time here, but I don't recall what was the consensus.


Seriously, back a sailboat with a square stern into 20 knots in a straight line

LT you add this to your learning curve. Dave's answer and advice is a good one. Anyone who "catches" mooring balls learns as you do it more often. Just when you think you have it down or are good.....Murphy shows up


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## alex_sauvage (Aug 31, 2012)

chef2sail said:


> Seriously, back a sailboat with a square stern into 20 knots in a straight line


Yes, seriously! Obviously driving boat in a straight line forward did not work very well either  
I am not trying to pick on OP, just to suggest that there is another way to overcome the problem, which seems to be working well as another poster suggested. If one is having problems driving boat into the wind backwards, you can always unfurl a little bit of the jib with both sheets tight. It will work as a wind-wane and keep the bow pointed downwind


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

that IS a technique to be used...

its kind of a modifided med mooring maneuever...

however the most obvious thing to consider is how your boat backs up, this needs to be tested before...

if your boat backs to either side it(most) makes using this technique almost impossible or very hard at the least.

the really good part about this technique is you are helming over the turning point therefore lessening the leverage effect the wind has over the length of the hull in normal point into the wind mooring maneuvers.

however 2 huge drawbacks to this

1. its easier to damage your stern or rudder if using big mooring balls, pilings, etc
2. if your not careful with your lines this is the best way to foul a prop. yes it sounds obvious but how many times have you let go of a line, or been careless especially if your having fun or getting distracted by a babe, or your crew or the scenery etc.

small boat mooring go by the side...like mentioned before, and slide up to the mooring, lower freeboard helps you here as well as having extra time and boat length to attach to.


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## ArgleBargle (Jan 8, 2007)

Agree with Alex_sauvage - yes, seriously. Easier to manoeuvre dead slow into the wind in reverse when your bow doesn't get blown off by the wind, as it does in fwd. Plus the communications and geometry advantages mentioned previously. Works great in any typical modern monohull with short keel & spade rudder (except in sizable waves or big current).


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> Seriously, back a sailboat with a square stern into 20 knots in a straight line


Thats the way i do it single handing.

Mark


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## SuperV (Jul 5, 2014)

I tried both - forward and reverse. Cant say either are better or worse - just depends on the situation. I don't think I would start trying in reverse, but it's an OK option if you miss. As some have mentioned, having the proper person try to catch and tie up to the mooring is also important. The mistake we made a long time on our boat is me handling the driving and my wife handling the lines, anchor, etc. She was more comfortable doing those jobs than handling the wheel. I guess she did not have the confidence to drive a 46' boat in tight quarters. At one point we were trying to anchor at night close to a bunch of other boats with a limited amount of maneuvering room between boats, shore and a reef. Our regular anchors didn't work, so I had to duck below to get our back-up Fortress ready and my wife had to drive in the meantime. She nearly freaked out but did extremely well, considering the circumstances. These types of situations didn't bolster her confidence though and driving at sea doesn't provide that confidence. So I am still the main person to drive while we dock or moor, while we switch during anchoring maneuvers. Knowing what to do with the mooring pennant also helps. We had one of our earlier mooring attempts where I presumed that my wife knew what to do with the pennant. I had reminded her to have our docking line below the life lines, to have the boat hook low and to grab the pennant early. But she ended up having to let go several times because she kept trying to hook it on the cleat or to tie the docking line on the pennant. i had to remind her to just pull the docking line through the loop in the pennant, which also helps when getting underway later. Training under non-stress circumstances, loads and loads of communication and having the right person at the right job and talking problems through afterwards seem to me the best ingredients for success. Don't let others rattle you - they are not on your boat nor are they in the same situation. You were successful in the end and surely will get better as time goes on and you get through more learning situations.


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

alex_sauvage said:


> Yes, seriously! Obviously driving boat in a straight line forward did not work very well either
> I am not trying to pick on OP, just to suggest that there is another way to overcome the problem, which seems to be working well as another poster suggested. If one is having problems driving boat into the wind backwards, you can always unfurl a little bit of the jib with both sheets tight. It will work as a wind-wane and keep the bow pointed downwind


 Don't have a furler on the Lady all hank on.


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## alex_sauvage (Aug 31, 2012)

ltgoshen said:


> Don't have a furler on the Lady all hank on.


I am just guessing, but if your boat has "hank on" foresail, it probably does not have "big, square stern" of the modern production boat 
In any case that was just an additional advice to the comment that it is impossible to drive the boat with "big, square stern" backward into the wind.


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## jwing (Jun 20, 2013)

Regarding onlookers #1: Whatever they do or think is up to them and it doesn't really matter to me. However, I can control my perception and reaction.

Regarding onlookers #2: When I see them, I simply imagine their heads to be cabbage. I'm not worried about what a cabbage thinks of me.

Regarding onlookers #3: If an onlooker sees that I could use some help and offers it, I appreciate it and it makes me feel better about the world and I've learned something. If the onlooker doesn't offer, I assume he doesn't know any better than I do. I figure that onlookers have the best, non-judgmental intentions.

Regarding onlookers #4: I try to be an onlooker as much as I can. Sometimes I'll go out of my way to watch. Not because I want to judge, but because I want to learn. I have found that the best way for me to learn is to watch and emulate. If whoever I'm watching needs help, I'm glad to assist. Again, no judgement or criticism. I realize that I'm just a cabbage that is sometimes useful.


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## Maytrix (Jan 17, 2011)

Regarding backing up to it, if there is enough room, there is another option. Come at it down wind. You can control how you approach it and come in very slow so that you can go into reverse and maintain position. You could much more easily just sit there and let them take their time getting the pendant this way. Obviously this won't work in many situations though if the anchorage is crowded.

The real key is having a good hooker. Gotta get that pendant as quick as possible - even if you just get one line through to start, it will hold it while you get the other ready.


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