# Let's talk Swans...



## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

killarney_sailor said:


> Seems like an interesting thread but probably does not belong here. Can a moderator ... put these for postings into a separate thread)?


Done...
Ron (Faster)

Speaking of Swans, how come the reviews on these boats never come up on SN? My understanding are Swan's are among the best blue water boats ever made.

Any suggestions for a replacement for the "thing"?


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I think Swan owners and would-be owners are too busy earning the money to be Swan owners to spend their time with us.

We actually looked at a Swan 43 before getting our Bristol (the Swan was about $50k more) and i was not as impressed as I thought I would be. The original owner had spent $24k reinforcing the chain plates which did not impress me. Our broker, who is very experienced and knowledgeable said that the earlier Swans designed by S and S and the later ones designed by Frers are terrific, the ones in the middle, designed by Ron Holland, not so much - the one we looked at was a Holland.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

killarney_sailor said:


> I think Swan owners and would-be owners are too busy earning the money to be Swan owners to spend their time with us.
> 
> We actually looked at a Swan 43 before getting our Bristol (the Swan was about $50k more) and i was not as impressed as I thought I would be. The original owner had spent $24k reinforcing the chain plates which did not impress me. Our broker, who is very experienced and knowledgeable said that the earlier Swans designed by S and S and the later ones designed by Frers are terrific, the ones in the middle, designed by Ron Holland, not so much - the one we looked at was a Holland.


Yea the swans seem expensive but look to hold their value, It seems in the older under 40 foot range you can get some good values once in a while (probably the designs you say are good). The companion way access looks difficult on these boats- although I guess that is what makes them sea worthy, alot have the traveller right at the companion way access, which is probably not a great cruising quality.

This baby looks nice, and a great price:
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1968/Nautor's-Swan-Swan-36-2353498/Ft.-Lauderdale/FL/United-States


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

*Moderator, can you make this a new thread?*

These boats were built with the emphasis on sailing performance and quality construction - designing to offer dock-condo comforts was not on the list, so they put the traveller where they thought it worked best. Not sure about the boat you posted but the one we looked at had about a four foot wide bridge deck between the cockpit well and the companionway. This was done to get an aft cabin (we also saw it on a Hylas 42 and perhaps on all aft cockpit boats of this size with an aft cabin), but it was a real problem for fitting a dodger - you would need to have the dodger close to the cockpit to be effective but this would mean that you would have to go out on deck to go below, which seems neither convenient nor safe. You would also need a little pram hood dodger for the companionway. Also, because the companionway was at the top of the deck crown there were a lot of steps (9 or 10) into the cabin. I think this is why where are so many center-cockpit boats in this size range.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Beautiful boats and well built. Our neighbor has one. I literally cost twice what ours cost, is 5 ft shorter, sleeps fewer people, has less room in the cockpit, etc, etc. While I see some advantages, I could never justify the cost unless I just had to say I owned a Swan.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

A friend was interested in an older ('69 or 70) S&S Swan 39 or 40 and we went to check it out. It had the classic good looks of the era (before the bluestripe wedge deck period). It was not particularly roomy below, but of course that's a bit of an unfair comparison with today's beamy barges in mind..

Massive hardware, tree trunk mast very solid looking. BUT.. on both port and stbd the shrouds (chainplates on heavy 'knees' connected to deck and hull) was visibly lifting the deck. There was documentation on board of attempted repairs that had not been quite successful. This was extreme enough that not only was the deck lifting but the hull dimpled inwards in the same area. The cause was unclear and not mentioned, perhaps extreme rig tension by a PO..

But also almost the entire boat's gelcoat was spalling off the substrate and the topsides looked a bit like a jigsaw puzzle.

One expects defects in a 40+ year old boat, this may well have been an extremely isolated example and in no way am I trying to tar all Swans, but I'd been excited to get on a Swan for the first time and it was quite a disappointment.

The CRAZY part was they were still asking close to $100K - this was just five years ago.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

A lot of Swans have been raced HARD and so there is associated wear and tear.


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## amarinesurveyor (Feb 12, 2009)

I've logged over 20,000 miles on a 1973 Swan 44, S&S design. Great sea boat, that I'd take anywhere almost anytime. Had it out in a storm we got caught in with 40'+? waves on the way from Bermuda to Newport, got rolled on our side, had some damage to the dodger and a bent stanchion but nothing else. It is a very good design and they were well built. There may be some other boats that come close or maybe even are better, but you can't dispute that they are great boats!
Brian


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

When I was in my twenties a local hotshot imported an S&S Swan 38 - one of the original wedge deck style Swans. I would have sold my soul for that boat - you can't imagine nowadays how gorgeous, rare and special it was. Back then they were like the Ferrari's and Lambo's of the time. Both the boats AND the cars just don't have that same magic anymore - there's just too much other stuff that's just as good as them now. Back then they were truly special and a rare treat to even see in person. Now they are still very nice but have become almost commonplace.

To illustrate the change, back then there were three Ferraris - a Daytona, a 330 GTC and a 250 GTL and one Lambo Miura in Vancouver. You might have seen the Daytona occasionally but the others very rarely. Today, during a two hour shopping trip, just in my part of town, I saw three Ferraris and a Lambo.

Something really special has been lost in there somewhere. 

I think the Swans fall in there as well.


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## jameso (Dec 5, 2011)

in last months Sailing they do a piece on a Swan 66FD, and No doubt they are well engineered-- still this one looked like a slice of cheese cake. Oh the price was $4,650,000. I will say again this is no doubt one great sailing boat, but it looked like the box my dream boat would come in....


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Here's a pic of the 66FD


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

*How about this one, if you don't like cheesecake?*

Cheesecake is good. I am sure it is remarkable boat to sail, although I don't think something like that would be my first choice if I fell into a large container of money.

Was on one of these at Annapolis a few years ago for about half an hour with the sales manager - not for me, a friend was looking at boats in this price range ($1.5 million) and wanted my take on a few he was considering. I can't imagine a better boat for extended cruising - although it is pretty big. Discovery make a 50' catamaran. I could imagine my wife getting pretty excited about that one.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

They always get mt attention


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

ASKED



casey1999 said:


> Speaking of Swans, how come the reviews on these boats never come up on SN? My understanding are Swan's are among the best blue water boats ever made.


ANSWERED



jameso said:


> in last months Sailing they do a piece on a Swan 66FD ... the price was $4,650,000.


Next question?


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

We LOVE our S&S Swan 41. Built like a tank. Stiff. Plows upwind. Beautiful woodwork. Competitive PHRF racer. Negatives? Smaller down below than "modern" 41 footers. And a big headsail. She's a wonderful blue water boat that moves right along.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

CBinRI said:


> We LOVE our S&S Swan 41.


We all do too! We're just jealous.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

mitiempo said:


> Here's a pic of the 66FD


I think that is the difference between Euro and American design. Look how clean and functional the boat looks, and think of all the ladies you could fit on that deck. ... or men (for the women skippers).


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

casey1999 said:


> I think that is the difference between Euro and American design. Look how clean and functional the boat looks, and think of all the ladies you could fit on that deck. ... or men (for the women skippers).


To my eye they have gotten TOO clean in recent years - they have started to look like Wally's. It almost has an unfinished look to it, like they haven't mounted all the hardware yet.

If I was going to spend $millions on a boat  I'd want at least a couple of coffee grinders on deck.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

SloopJonB said:


> To my eye they have gotten TOO clean in recent years - they have started to look like Wally's. It almost has an unfinished look to it, like they haven't mounted all the hardware yet.
> 
> If I was going to spend $millions on a boat  I'd want at least a couple of coffee grinders on deck.


Would you really want to look at the deck mounted coffee grinders or some scantly dressed women lounging on the deck?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Whenever I've looked at used Swans (new ones being simply way out of my league $$ wise) the main concerns have been ...

Access to below deck ... (coupled with difficulty in mounting an effective dodger)
Pokeyness of galley and head ...
Draft ...
General cruising comfort ....

not all these points necessarily relate to the same boats. The earlier S&S Swans have more than adequate access but tend to have pokey galleys, something I've noticed with a lot of older S&S designs. While some Swans had optional shoal draft keels you don't tend to see many of them and the standard keels on the Holland and Frers boats are a tadge to deep from my cruising needs.

I guess that in reality most Swans are bought predominantly for racing with short term cruising comfort being an option rather than a prerequisite. 
(Emphasis on "most" as I personally know/knew two Swans that have gone round the world cruising.)


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

casey1999 said:


> Would you really want to look at the deck mounted coffee grinders or some scantly dressed women lounging on the deck?


I'd want to sit on my grinders, drink in hand, looking at some scantily dressed women lounging on the deck.

I'd probably name the boat "Scantily Clad".


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

tdw said:


> Whenever I've looked at used Swans (new ones being simply way out of my league $$ wise) the main concerns have been ...
> 
> Access to below deck ... (coupled with difficulty in mounting an effective dodger)
> Pokeyness of galley and head ...
> ...


They always looked to me like they had seriously offshore interiors - in the old style that Stephens grew up with. Tight spaces so you couldn't get thrown far, big nav. stations near the cockpit, pilot berths etc.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

SloopJonB said:


> They always looked to me like they had seriously offshore interiors - in the old style that Stephens grew up with. Tight spaces so you couldn't get thrown far, big nav. stations near the cockpit, pilot berths etc.


Too true and 40 years ago probably my ideal. I guess times and thinking change particularly as we realise that most of our time is spent at anchor not sailing the roaring forties.


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## Hudsonian (Apr 3, 2008)

Could one of the Australians please explain what you mean when you say "pokeyness"? I couldn't find "pokeyness" in an online dictionary of Australian usage. In the US, pokey is a verb meaning jail or an adjective meaning slow.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Hudsonian said:


> Could one of the Australians please explain what you mean when you say "pokeyness"? I couldn't find "pokeyness" in an online dictionary of Australian usage. In the US, pokey is a verb meaning jail or an adjective meaning slow.


If you will accept an answer from a Canadian, it means little or cramped or having dark corners etc. - you have to "poke around" in it.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Sloop nailed it ... funny isn't it how words can mean something quite different from one location to the next. One of my favourites is DUREX. In Australia that is a brand of adhesive tape, in New Zealand its a brand of condom.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

tdw said:


> Sloop nailed it ... funny isn't it how words can mean something quite different from one location to the next. One of my favourites is DUREX. In Australia that is a brand of adhesive tape, in New Zealand its a brand of condom.


Does that mean you Aussies can't afford a real condom??


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

*Ouch!*



Faster said:


> Does that mean you Aussies can't afford a real condom??


I guess the tape could work if you were careful - the removal though!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Faster said:


> Does that mean you Aussies can't afford a real condom??


Hmpph ... An Australian Moderator and a Canadian moderator walk into a bar ... the bartender says "hey is this a hijack" ?.



> Helen Clarke, Prime Minister of New Zulland, is rudely awoken at
> 4am by the telephone.
> 
> "Hillen, its the Hilth Munister here. Sorry to bother you at this hour but there is an emergency! I`ve just received word thet the Durex fectory en Auckland has burned to the ground. It is istimated thet the entire New Zulland supply of condoms will be gone by the ind of the week."
> ...


Now back to our regular program ....


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

tdw said:


> Hmpph ... An Australian Moderator and a Canadian moderator walk into a bar ... the bartender says "hey is this a hijack" ?.


I can see this site has degenerated somewhat since I was here last..


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Hartley18 said:


> I can see this site has degenerated somewhat since I was here last..


I do keep on trying to drag it down to my level but the likes of Faster and Jeff H seem to have different aspirations ....


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

*I thought this thread was about Swans?!?*

We have a number of Swans who live year-round in a marsh near our yacht club (Whitby,ON). Also in the winter there a lot of migratory swans - I have seen perhaps 300 in the harbor. Most are mute swans but they have introduced a small number of trumpeter swans and I think they are doing OK too. I notice this one has a tag - not sure I would the job of tagging these guys. They are big and strong and typically have an attitude problem. Actually I am sure, I would not want the job of tagging them. This guy was having a mellow day.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

We've got quite a few of the Black variety down in the Gippsland Lakes. They're very friendly, but have a nip that'll take your finger off if you push the friendship too far. The one in front is a baby:


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

killarney_sailor said:


> _*"I thought this thread was about Swans"*_....We have a number of Swans who live year-round in a marsh near our yacht club.....


Just as I was about to apologize to KS for letting his Swan thread get hijacked so completely, I saw the above.. Glad it's back on track!


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