# New to sailing - MacGregor or other is best?



## Orange Beach (Aug 31, 2012)

hi, I'm new to sailing and need some advice. I want to get my first sailboat, and since it may be my "retirement toy" I need to get the purchase right the first time.

As I've studied the internet the MacGregor seems to be a good option for me, but I would appreciate any recommendations for other models that will fit my needs:

1. I will only be sailing in the inland waters near Orange Beach and Pensacola. I have no desire to take it into the ocean off shore.

2. I will only use it for day sailing - will never stay overnight.

3. I will nearly always be sailing alone so need something I can handle by myself.

4. Because the weather comes up fast, and I have a job where sometimes I have to get home a hurry, I REALLY like that I can put a large out boat motor on the MacGregor - I can't find another model of sailboat that takes a large motor.

5. I would prefer as much space above decks as possible, and the MacGregor seams very small. The below deck is not as important.

6. I like that I can take down the main sail by myself on the MacGregor and so I can store it in my boat house, or get it on a trailer when the hurricanes threaten.

7. I want it large enough so that it "feels stable".....probably at least 22 but no larger than 32 feet.

8. I like that I can beach the MacGregor so I can get out to fish.

9. I like the price of the MacGregor.

So, am I evaluating this correctly, or have I missed something? Anything you can tell me to help me make this decision would really be appreciated.

Thanks!


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

Get a powerboat or a sailboat. Don't get a MacGregor. It will not give you the satisfaction of either. It sails horribly compared to a real sailboat. If you search this site, you will find a lot of discussion of this boat. I would strongly discourage it.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Roger builds a boat for a specific market niche. He has value engineering down to a science. He is a manufacturing genius. The basic layup and fit is very good. The hardware and fittings are not the most robust, but perfectly serviceable. 

However, his boats do not have that big of cockpit, and then don't reay sail that well. The boats are a mix of compromises in performance. If all you want to do is putter around a bit, then the Mac might be a good choice. If you really want to sail, then look further.,

Where will you keep the boat ?


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## Marcel D (Apr 15, 2012)

Water balast is a little different than realy balast. Lead weighs more in water than water. So really you would have no balast until the boat was realy healed, do you want to sail or be a motor boat? Their are alot of great shoal draft boats out their like the Sanjuan 21, Catalina 22, Captiva 240. I realy think the macgregor is a substandard boat. Trying to do so many things to so little effect. Hunter also built a waterr balast boat and so did catalina for a while, but I think they stoped for abvious reasons.


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## MobiusALilBitTwisted (Jun 25, 2007)

Orange Beach said:


> 1. I will only be sailing in the inland waters near Orange Beach and Pensacola. I have no desire to take it into the ocean off shore.


 you will take it into the Gulf, don't get a newer MacG, the water balest will not handle well


Orange Beach said:


> 2. I will only use it for day sailing - will never stay overnight.


hummm


Orange Beach said:


> 3. I will nearly always be sailing alone so need something I can handle by myself.


there are other boats the MacG might not be the boat for you


Orange Beach said:


> 4. Because the weather comes up fast, and I have a job where sometimes I have to get home a hurry, I REALLY like that I can put a large out boat motor on the Mac Gregor - I can't find another model of sailboat that takes a large motor.


The fact that it is a want-a-be powerboat kind-a-be a sailboat means it will not preform well as ether, look for a 27 to 30 in your area, i am guessing your in the boot heal of AL


Orange Beach said:


> 5. I would prefer as much space above decks as possible, and the MacGregor seams very small. The below deck is not as important.


 Start looking for a Catalina 27 to 30, even the Hunter name will for sailing the Bays and the Gulf coast, don't limit your self to a MacG, and yes i have an older Mac Venture 25.


Orange Beach said:


> 6. I like that I can take down the main sail by myself on the MacGregor and so I can store it in my boat house, or get it on a trailer when the hurricanes threaten.


The Mast, sure you can but with the right setup you can do so on a 27 to 30 foot Deck stepped Mast.



Orange Beach said:


> 7. I want it large enough so that it "feels stable".....probably at least 22 but no larger than 32 feet.


then you need at ad some beam to the boat your looking for, my 25 Venture, she rolls a bit, my boat is what Mac Gregor was before the name change.


Orange Beach said:


> 8. I like that I can beach the MacGregor so I can get out to fish.


you dont have to leave the boat to fish, yes beaching is nice, i dont beach to fish, i still anchor out and wade or swim in



Orange Beach said:


> 9. I like the price of the MacGregor.


 you have not said what price your looking at so from $100 to $21,000, there is a lot of room for more Boat.



Orange Beach said:


> So, am I evaluating this correctly, or have I missed something? Anything you can tell me to help me make this decision would really be appreciated.


Let's see you have see a boat that you think fills your bill and it might, Is it the Only one that will?. If all your going to do is Sail the Orange Al to Pcola area then look for something a bit more, you will soon want to spend the Weekend out on the boat and the Mac Gregor will let you, you will also get tired of bending over all the time, look around for something that has a good track record and have standing hear room.



Orange Beach said:


> Thanks!


I hope you find a boat that fits your needs, but with the info you posted i will not go more into what I think might fit your needs. for one thing do you know how to sail, are you planning on taking Classes?
Fill in more details so the members might have a better idea as to what limits you have and can then maybe offer more advice to help you beside what boat might fit you best. Fair Wind and have a Good Weekend.

Check the WWW for ASA sailing classes or the the local Sailing Club.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

The MacGregor certainly fills a market niche, and people that have them really seem to love them. Perhaps one will work for you since it seems to check off alot of boxes on your list! 

The problem is they have a bit of an identity crisis! Are they a sailboat? well, technically yes, but they are a very mediocre sailers. Are they a power boat? Well, you CAN put a big-a$$ outboard on it and it goes, but they are a mediocre power boat too! In other words, they can do both, but do neither very well.

I would say broaden your horizons and look at what you can get in your price range in the way of a proper sailboat! Don't worry about getting shiny new, just get something good! Maybe re-think how important it is to be able to power home at mach 1 when you are supposed to be out sailing. (retirement boat...remember?) Sailors just aren't in that big a hurry!


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## [email protected] (Jan 23, 2012)

Go take a sailing class before you buy a boat. Then rent a few. Go out on others boats. There are gennerally lot's of used Mac Crapers for sale for a reason. Buy a good small sailboat that you can handle yourself and also a small fishing boat, you'll be happier.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

The Mac does a little bit of everything and is not a bad introduction to boating and sailing, in spite of some disdain from purists. There is a big difference in sailing performance between different eras/models of Macs, and many people are not familiar with these differences. 

The Hake Seawards have a shallow-draft ability, and would perhaps be more of a pure sailboat, but of course they wouldn't do the big motor thing. 

Maybe another consideration is finding out how big a pair of motors you could put on a moderate-size cruising catamaran.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

As others have said, this is not a well built vessel nor is it a sail or power boat. But the price is right and it gets people on the water. So for this reason alone, you may wish to buy it and pick your weather very carefully. Don't worry about the big engine, get one big enough to bring the boat to hull speed. Learn how to sail and reef. Spend practically nothing on upgrades beyond what's absolutely necessary to be safe. Sail the daylights out of the boat and in 2 or 3 years you'll have been on the water enough, seen enough other boats, and talked with enough people to make your next choice based on experience instead of what us yahoos on SN tell you.

Just go sailing.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

Reading through your criteria, it really sounds like a powerboat will fit your needs better. The only thing you say about sailing is that you want to get your first sailboat, but then everything you want out of a boat aligns better with a powerboat. Just some food for thought before you take a plunge.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

I agree with the, try a sailing school first. Sail some boats. If you can, also get on and sail a Mac 26x. I don't see them as terrible as is portrayed here, but I agree they (26x) are a "compromise" boat. They are meant to fill 2 roles... and other than the need for "fast to get back to port" 1 of those roles you won't need.

The big cockpit seems more like you'd be happier with a Capri 22, a Harbor 20, colgate 26, or any number of more "day-sailor" type keelboats.

Sailing yourself, and you can see, is not really a limitation of size. People single hand up to 40 footers, if properly equipped.

The bigger problem doing yourself is launching. I'm dealing with that now. I am working out a way I can launch, and retrieve my 25 foot fixed keel myself... next project is to work out raising the mast solo, I have the lifting mechanism, it's the initial mast crutch to get it 4-8 feet off the deck to get me started.

So solo sailing is nothing, solo launching is complicated but doable. You need to define your boundaries... are you going to slip the boat, and launch 2 times a year, or launch every time?

Is the motor being a monster a huge requirement or a "nice feature."

Is beachability a huge requirement or a "nice feature." A fixed keel boat will be inherently stable... a Roll keel (like seaward), or swing keel (like catalina 25/22) will be stable with keel down... A centerboard (any beachable day sailors) won't be much stability at all.

Also think if you really need a trailerable. If you are going to slip the boat, and don't care about beaching, your going to likely end up with a very stable boat (full, fin, or wing keel).

If you are all about sailing, and less about motoring, you'll likely be happier with a true sailboat only rather than the mac 26x. If you find sailing and high speed motoring both a requirement the mac 26x, and perhaps the Hunter 27 Edge, ugh Hunter 27 Edge your only choices.

Just watch out for 4th mode!


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

SHNOOL said:


> perhaps the Hunter 27 Edge, ugh Hunter 27 Edge your only choices.


There is just something very wrong with this picture:


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## kwm (Aug 15, 2009)

Go find someone to sail with and wait two years before buying your own. What you think you want/need in a sailboat will change as you get more experience. 

You might even find someone to partner with and have a much lower cost. I partnered with another sailor for 1 year before buying my boat. Best money I ever spent on sailing.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

There is no one perfect boat.

<< "I need to get the purchase right the first time." >>

I've been messing around on the water since childhood and might get it kind of sort of right by boat number six or seven or ????


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## Frogwatch (Jan 22, 2011)

There is nothing wrong with that picture, there is something wrong with the thinking there is something wrong with the picture. Why not be able to ski behind a sailboat. So it isnt traditional, who cares.
Calling the Mac a "niche" boat is simply silly and is like calling a heavy offshore sailboat a niche boat. I think the average Mac user gets more boating from his boat than most users of other sailboats.
If I was new to sailing, I would strongly consider a Mac.
I know a guy in the Bahamas who lives on the most decadant Mac I have ever seen, complete with large screen TV. He took it from West Palm to Marsh Harbor and regularly takes it down and back to Cat Island, mostly motoring because he knows he wants to spend as little time as possible "out there".


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

I'm one of the few who likes Macs. Yes, they are an insult to all things sailing but I don't think of them as a sailboat. To me THEY ARE A MOTORBOAT with a sail. They do what a motorboat does, and they can sail a little as well.

Make no mistake, their sailing performance is abysmal, but then again, they sail better than any other powerboat out there. As long as you are realistic about their sailing ability you may not be disappointed. You WILL NOT be able to pick a destination and sail to it, you will have to motor. On the other hand, if the conditions are favorable you can raise the sails and sail in a comfortable direction and enjoy sailing along for the sheer pleasure of it. I also have respect for the designer, because he added flotation so that they will stay above water even if holed like the Titanic. He knew his market was the inexperienced and he wanted to keep everyone safe.

To me, the Mac has only ONE really big feature that sets it apart from the rest. The big motor. Every other aspect of the Mac can be better served with a different choice of boat. I think a West Wight Potter 15 or 19 (they handle and are stable like a 23 footer) would be a better choice in every way except for the big motor. They have a bigger cockpit, a MUCH more usable deck, are much more stable, can be easily beached, sail well etc etc etc. Every one of your criteria is bettered with the Potter or a host of other small boats. A catalina 22 is another good choice for a trailer-able boat or the catalina 27 or ranger 26 if you don't need to trailer it. None of these other choices will have the huge motor though.

I don't hate MACs, but I would advise you to consider just how badly you need the big fast motor (as opposed to a motor that will go 7 knots). If you NEED the big motor then the MAC is your only choice. If you can live without the big motor, then you will be happier with something else.

West Wight Potter :: Home
West Wight Potter Owner's Home Port, Potter Sailboats, Sailboats

Happy looking!

MedSailor


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Orange Beach said:


> 4. Because the weather comes up fast, and I have a job where sometimes I have to get home a hurry, I REALLY like that I can put a large out boat motor on the MacGregor - I can't find another model of sailboat that takes a large motor...


I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this. Are you an emergency responder who needs to get to shore on short notice?

Whatever the reason, I have only one possible suggestion that nobody here has made yet. You could buy a real sailboat and pull an inflatable dinghy with big enough motor to get up on a plane. If you had to get back to your home base immediately, you could anchor, pick up a mooring ball, or get a transient slip wherever you are and then motor home in the dinghy. That could possibly get you the motoring that you say you need with minimal compromises in quality of sailing.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

Frogwatch said:


> There is nothing wrong with that picture, there is something wrong with the thinking there is something wrong with the picture. Why not be able to ski behind a sailboat. So it isnt traditional, who cares.


Sorry, didn't mean to offend!

In my very own limited (and sole) opinion, it just don't make a whole lotta sense. Seems to ruin a whole lot of the unique benefits that powerboats and sailboats have on their own.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Frogwatch said:


> Calling the Mac a "niche" boat is simply silly and is like calling a heavy offshore sailboat a niche boat.


I beg to differ, save for the Hunter Edge, the Mac is kind of unique... if there was only ONE (or say 2) heavy offshore sailboat(s), then you MAY have an equivalency.

I for the record, said, the mac wasn't a bad choice... but that he ought to refine his requirements, versus his "wants." He may find that heavy outboard as more of a want, and be giving up a requirement (say sweet sailing performance) as a consequence... Sorry there I go, after a few sails on some other boats he can refine that list some.


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## NaviGsr (Sep 17, 2009)

Sadly, I would vote for the Hunter Edge over the Macgregor. Supposedly, they perform better undersail.






Sail Magazine review:

Hunter Edge

You need to be realistic that you will only be using a boat like this in fair weather. Despite the Macgregors marketing video of the 26 out in 50 knot winds, no one would be remotely comfortable (or probably all that safe) doing that. The advantage of these boats is you can hit the throttle and head home if a storm blows up, not that you will be ok riding it out.


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## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

MacGregors look better on paper than they do out on the water. They're like microwaved bacon. You lose a lot when you compromise that much.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Having seen corrosion develop on the chainplates of an M26X after two weeks in salt water, I consider the quality of the fittings to be substandard.

All sailboats are compromises, some compromises are just worse than others.


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## cookwithgas (Oct 8, 2007)

OrangeBeach:

I recently upgraded from a MacGregor 22 to a C&C 31 (a little over a year ago). There is no comparison - if you want to go sailing, get a bigger, heavier boat. Beaching a boat is nice, but you give up so much sailing ability that it is not worth it to me. Get a dinghy if you want to beach. The MUCH heavier C&C is a real pleasure to sail. The MacGregor was a hand full to say the least. It would round up in all but the lightest breezes. The C&C will hunker down and cruise in stiff breeze. My situation changed from having to trailer a boat to being able to park one at the dock in my back yard - I don't know what you have in the way of storage, but the heavy boat is less of a compromise out on the water. As for the price - you can pay the same for either boat if you plan to do some work on it (plan to work on it because all boats are a lot of work) so spend your money on a real sailboat that you can enjoy sailing. I paid $3500 for my Mac 22, put a lot of time and && into it, then sold it for $4K. I was lucky to get that. We purchased a house on the water so I found a fixer upper C&C 31 for $3,000. I"ve put a lot of time and $$ into it, but in my opinion the Mac could never provide the sailing satisfaction the C&C does. 

Also, I sailed the Mac on inland lakes -sailing in Lake Pontchartrain and the Gulf of Mexico is entirely different and I would not feel comfortable in the MAC out there. 

Attached are the two boats - My previous boat was a 1977 Mac 22 and the current boat is a 1967 C&C 31 Corvette. 

Enjoy,

Scott


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## Capt. Gary Randall (Jun 1, 2012)

One thing that I think will fit your needs, but you really need to be a sailor is a catamaran. Large outside deck area, very easy to handle, it will give you all the speed you want, it is easily maneuvered., And very stable if you know how to sail it. I agree with the post about going out and just getting some experience on different sailboats, then go rent a Hobi-cat or a stiletto these are smaller catamarans but they will give you an idea of the difference.also very easy to beach if that is what you like. captg


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## HeartsContent (Sep 14, 2010)

Being someone that actually owned a 26M, they're a great boat and I loved mine. It's a very versatile boat.

Had to get it home from a cruise and motored it into 30-40knot winds in the ICW. I was really nervous but quickly realized I was just going to get wet. Ended up cruising 13knots. Completely impressed with the boat. 

I only sailed in the Gulf of Mexico and LMFAO when I hear people make ridiculous statements that they would not feel safe taking it there - what a frigging joke. You really have to take internet banter with a grain of salt.

BTW, I passed quite a few larger boats in the Gulf.  It's pretty quick on a reach.

Fantastic boat for overnighting, weekending and our longest trip was 8 days (me and two teenage daughters). Carried a dinghy and 2HP outboard.

Sold it cause I intend to do a lot more than 8 days. This boat sold me on cruising.


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## Frogwatch (Jan 22, 2011)

I don't consider the Mac 26 to be a compromise at all. I'd like a boat that can sail, can motor on a plane to get home in a hurry, is reasonably trailerable, easy to set up, roomy. Where's the compromise? It fits all of what I would want if I was not already into bigger boats. Only compromise I see is that it doesn't use a zero fuel cold fusion engine.
Yes, it is an insult to traditionalists but they deserve to be insulted. "It doesn't have traditional lines", BFD, the ocean bottom is littered with traditional looking boats. "It sails poorly". My truck sails poorly, the Mac 26 sails better than most traditional boats. "It isn't safe", BS, I think its ability to get home fast and to get into shallow anchorages gives it a time integrated safety better than ANY other boat its size. "He won't be satisfied", nonsense, he'll probably use it more'n most other "conventional sailboats" because it is capable of doing more things.
The Mac26 is the wave of the future for mid sized sailboats, deal with it and stop regretting you are stuck with a slow pig of a boat that has to stay in the water using an expensive slip that can't get into an water shallower than
4' and has to stay out in nasty weather rather than quickly get home. Yes, you are stuck in the same cruising grounds while that "compromise" of a Mac 26 is being trailered all over to "other" (translation: more interesting) places.
I oughtta sell em.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Frogwatch said:


> ...I oughtta sell em.


I think you just did!  :laugher


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

What you guys always seem to overlook is that there are 4 different versions of the MacGregor 26' sailboat: the "C","D", "M" and "X". The "C" is a centerboard version, the "D" is a dagger board version, the "M" and the "X" are the motorboat hybrid versions that can take up to a 50 HP outboard. The "C" and "D" are decent sailors, if a bit tender but only can handle up to a 10 HP outboard. 
Call them 'niche' boats if you want to but there enough people out there that do enjoy this design and the pluses and minuses that come with these boats. 
Lots of people start out sailing in MacGregor boats. I happen not to be one of them but I'm not one to pee into another persons Cheerios (cereal) for no good reason.
I've actually sailed on a MacGregor 26' "S" model sailboat on the Atlantic. I enjoyed it and live to write the tale. I'd also agree that the M26 can hit faster speeds then my heavy, old Tartan 27'. I think I'd prefer to be on my big, old, heavy boat though if the weather got nasty.


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## Capt. Gary Randall (Jun 1, 2012)

Has anybody here ever sailed a M 65? now that's a real sailboat....... not exactly a day sailor. but if you know what you're doing you can ski behind it too....without the engine running........ don't try to beach it........lol captg


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## dive4it (Feb 1, 2013)

I see a lot of folks really down on the Macgregors....that is fine and I don't totally disagree with them....my only question is....Have you ever owned or spent a significant amount of time on one? They are a compromise for sure, but a good one. I own three sailboats currently and have had six over the last few years....I'll have to say that for his requirments, I think it would fit the bill quite well.


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## anthony1 (Nov 24, 2009)

Hello
Here is my 2cents worth
I curently own a McGregor/Venture 25 built in 1975, and it has a swing keel, and an 8hp honda outboard. I use it for day sailing like you would be and find it just right for me and my wife, we have had another couple with us on different occasions and find the cockpit comfortable. As for speed I can only get it to hull speed which is about 7knots either under sail or power, but that is just fine for me. It is beachable with the keel up or just motoring in thin waterways. I find the boat quite forgiving and I think it has more confidence in me than I have, that said if I was in the market for another boat I would seriously consider another one.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

This thread is months old and it looks like the original poster was scared off, he never posted here again.


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## Philzy3985 (Oct 20, 2012)

That Macgregor marketing campaign sure strikes a cord with people. I thought it was too good to be true when I first researched the company, too.

Truth is having the "best of both worlds" like that boat only gives you about 50% of the sailing value and 50% of the powerboat value. As everyone says it's a niche market - you may just fit in that niche. The boats seem pricey though, for the size and quality.

I agree a swing-keel Catalina 22 or 25 or similar well-known swing keel boat that takes an outboard is your solution. As far as space above deck - in a sailboat you have the cockpit, and then you tip toe pretty much everywhere else. 

Sailboats in that size range are meant to be fun to day-sail and compatible for racing, so most people don't feel that they are stable by any means - when they sail they like to be heeled over at an angle, even in light winds, it's what makes them go faster.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

Continuing this Holy Thread Revival Tour, the common generalizations about MacGregors really only apply to the newer models from the past almost fifteen years or so, beginning with the X and M. The previous generations (C, D ; mid 80s through late 90s) had water ballast, but did not have the capacity for the big motor and did have better sailing qualities; and the Venture/MacGregors from before then had honest-to-goodness iron keels. Also, I believe the latest, M model, does have about 300#s of permanent ballast, in addition to the water ballast.

1973-1987 Venture/Macs 17 to 25 with weighted iron centerboard, about 500# crank-up cb on Mac 25s of the early 80s
1986-1990 26D Daggerboard, water ballast
1990-1995 26S swing centerboard, water ballast
1996-2004 26X power sailor, water ballast, big honking motor option, higher profile, flatter bottom, more windage, but sit-down dinette and stand-up head
2005-2013, 26M, slightly more of a sailboat with some #300 lb. permanent ballast in addition to water ballast, center board replaced with dagger board, more windows, a little heavier becaause of the permanent ballast
2013 Roger MacGregor announces retirement; business future of Mac yachts not certain


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