# Flying flag from the backstay ..



## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

I've read in a Sailnet article that it's okay to fly your countries flag from the backstay of a marconi rigged boat, but I'm curious - how is that actually done ? I mean do you typically have a special flag halyard just for that purpose that you use to hoist the flag up the backstay ? This is what the article says ...



> In either case the flag may be sewn into the leech or hoisted on a halyard through a leech cringle (reinforced hole) so the ensign can be lowered to avoid chafe, say on a permanent backstay.


Sailnet article link

Anyone do this ? What are the issues ?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I don't think they mean (I hope) hoisted on the backstay at the same height as 2/3 up the leach. That would be just plain tacky and disrespectful. I fly my flag from the backstay, but at a height of exactly my reach when standing on the lazarette. This is my last choice, but there is no where on the stern to mount an appropriate flagstaff that wouldn't interfere with my radar mast, propane locker, windvane, dingy outboard etc... Lin and Larry Pardey do the same but I am not sure there is anything really appropriate. However, out of necessity (visiting foreign countries) this is the only place I can find that remotely resembles anything legitimate. Better than flying it from the spreaders or the masthead! I would say that if you can't fly it appropriately don't fly it at all, unless you are required to.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

sailboy21 said:


> I don't think they mean (I hope) hoisted on the backstay at the same height as 2/3 up the leach. That would be just plain tacky and disrespectful.[/IMG]


Thank you for the thoughts sailboy21.

Here is a picture of someone's boat flying their flag much higher, I don't think it looks tacky. Well, correction - yes, it looks tacky here, but that's because the flag is too big for the boat, but I don't think having the flag up higher is tacky. That's basically what I'm asking about, just not huge and obnoxious like this.










Edit - I certainly wouldn't want my own countries flag to be any bigger than the courtesy flag.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Windy...your US flag SHOULD be larger than any courtesy flag you fly from the spreaders. There is no rule on this but the general guideline is 1" of flag length for every foot of boat and going UP to the next standard flag size. 
So...a 35' sailboat should have a flag 35" long...and the standard 24x36" flag would thus be appropriate.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Here are a couple of relatively recent threads on ensigns, jacks, pennants, burgees and flags: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/42755-flag-etiquette-2-0-a.html and http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/42187-flag-etiquette-queries.html

Found a couple Sailnet articles on the subject: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/seamanship-articles/19225-signal-flags.html and http://www.sailnet.com/forums/seamanship-articles/19226-flying-flag.html

I do question one statement in that second article. The author states


> This is why many people opt to fly the burgee lower in the rig, hoisted to the end of the lowest starboard spreader on a flag halyard. While this practice is decried by purists...


Aren't burgees and pennants supposed to be hoisted on the *port* side? I understood the starboard side was for courtesy flags.

Jim


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

wind_magic said:


> Thank you for the thoughts sailboy21.
> 
> Here is a picture of someone's boat flying their flag much higher, I don't think it looks tacky. Well, correction - yes, it looks tacky here, but that's because the flag is too big for the boat, but I don't think having the flag up higher is tacky. That's basically what I'm asking about, just not huge and obnoxious like this.
> 
> ...


I'll take your flag, and up you 1!










seriously...

and then there is the topping lift approach


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

There is an established etiquette for flying U.S. flags. It is very long standing, the result of tradition and practice over hundreds of years.

ALL of the flags depicted above -- and described above -- do NOT meet this protocol.

One source of information on flying flags is the U.S. Power Squadron:
Flag and Etiquette Committee

Another is Chapman's.

Much as I value SailNet, I wouldn't consider it an authoritative source on flag-flying.

From USPS:

"The national ensign worn by a vessel must be the flag of her registry-not necessarily that of the owner or operator.

Generally, the national ensign should be displayed at the peak of the gaff, i.e., the outer end of the spar extending aft from the mast of your boat-if you boat has a gaff. If it does not, fly it from the flagstaff at your boat's stern. If your boat has an overhanging boom or an outboard motor, your flagstaff may be offset to starboard (preferably) from your boat's centerline."

.... (sportfishing boats)

"Marconi-rigged sailboats may fly the ensign from the leech of the aftermost sail (or from the back stay), approximately 2/3 the distance up its length. This puts it in about the same position it would occupy if the boat were gaff-rigged.

At anchor or made fast, the ensign should be flown from the stern staff of all boats. The U.S. national ensign has a 10:19 hoist/fly ratio."

Bill


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I'd add that the size of 1" in horizontal length (fly) per foot of LOA is confirmed by Bill's USPS link.


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## CGMojo (Jul 6, 2007)

*Holidays*

It's permissible to fly a "holiday ensign" one size larger than standard on national holidays. The concept of a "battle ensign" is a little outdated, but that one's as big as you can carry!


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

wind_magic said:


> Thank you for the thoughts sailboy21.
> 
> Here is a picture of someone's boat flying their flag much higher, I don't think it looks tacky. Well, correction - yes, it looks tacky here, but that's because the flag is too big for the boat, but I don't think having the flag up higher is tacky. That's basically what I'm asking about, just not huge and obnoxious like this.
> 
> ...


Everybody gets through life differently. I think the flag looks lovely flying proud.


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## astraeus (Jan 30, 2006)

wind_magic said:


> Thank you for the thoughts sailboy21.
> 
> Here is a picture of someone's boat flying their flag much higher, I don't think it looks tacky. Well, correction - yes, it looks tacky here, but that's because the flag is too big for the boat, but I don't think having the flag up higher is tacky. That's basically what I'm asking about, just not huge and obnoxious like this.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hijack the thread, but do you recall the name of the boat pictured and where it was taken? Looks like a Hans Christian I am familiar with.

Thanks


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

UP YOU 1? that's more like up you ten....I LOVE IT!


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Something that everyone tends to forget when speaking flag etiquette, even on boats is, If you fly the Star & Stripes, you raise the flag at Sunrise and you must douse the flag at sunset, if you can not douse the flag at sunset, then it should not be flown, unless you can illuminate it during the dark hours, to do otherwise is disrespectful

Our flag seldom flies during the week because most times, I don't get back till after dark, during the weekend it's unfurled as soon as I hit the cockpit with my coffee and is rolled and covered ( simular to a umbrella cover ) in the evening


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

CGMojo said:


> The concept of a "battle ensign" is a little outdated, but that one's as big as you can carry!


I like that one.  
36"x60" on a 25' boat. I knew it was 'large' when I bought it, but only fly it before a race.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

zz4gta said:


>


Something is wrong with your wind direction indicator.


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## J36ZT (May 18, 2008)

After quite a bit of research in the past, I could find no US Law or official document governing the flying of the US Flag on boats. Although there are publications out there, there really is nothing "OFFICIAL." After reading many of these publications (some contradict each other), here are the conclusions I've drawn:

1. The top, aft, and starboard are the positions of honor.
2. The US Flag, if flown from the backstay on a non-gaff rigged vessel, should be 2/3 the way up the backstay.
3. The best proportions (in most cases) for the US Flag are 1" fly for every 1-foot of boat length. There should be no other flags flown on the vessel that are larger than the US Flag.
4. The US Flag is not normally flown when under sail except where required by law.
5. The US Flag is flown from 0800hrs until sunset.

Thus, when at anchor or port, you could use your main-halyard (or halyard for your aft-most mast) to hoist a US Flag. Obviously, you would need to lower the flag before you set sails.

From one that has served our country for over 25-years, I'd like to say that I'm extremely happy to see the US Flag proudly displayed on any vessel. I am not offended when I see Old Glory flying after sunset or before sunrise. I'm not offended when I see Old Glory flying from a port spreader, as long as it's the only flag on the boat. I'm not even offended when Old Glory is obviously well out of proportions for the size of the vessel. However, I do get upset when I see Her so weathered and torn that only the field of blue and stars remain. And, I get down right angry when I see any flag hoisted above the US Flag.

Skipper, J/36 "Zero Tolerance"


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

J36-

I hate to break it to you, but on most boats flying the US Ensign from a stern flag staff, the courtesy flag, most burgees and signal flags are going to be flying above the US flag.


J36ZT said:


> From one that has served our country for over 25-years, I'd like to say that I'm extremely happy to see the US Flag proudly displayed on any vessel. I am not offended when I see Old Glory flying after sunset or before sunrise. I'm not offended when I see Old Glory flying from a port spreader, as long as it's the only flag on the boat. I'm not even offended when Old Glory is obviously well out of proportions for the size of the vessel. However, I do get upset when I see Her so weathered and torn that only the field of blue and stars remain. And, I get down right angry when I see any flag hoisted above the US Flag.
> 
> Skipper, J/36 "Zero Tolerance"


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

> I get down right angry when I see any flag hoisted above the US Flag.


J36ZT, I know what you meant, courtesy flags, signal flags and/or burgees may be or end up higher in height, but can never flown above the Stars & Stripes on the same staff or flag halyard


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

wind magic,
Yes, something is very wrong with it. lol big bird took out the vertical vein you can't see from the pic. I have another, but my trimmer is too lazy to pull me up the mast at the moment.


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