# Shackles on Jib Sheets?



## CarbonSink62 (Sep 29, 2011)

I'm moving up from an 18' day boat to a 25' cruising boat.

I just like sayin that! 

On my 18, the jib sheets were one long line that was tied to the jib clew at its midpoint. This was the arrangement for every boat I've ever sailed.

I haven't rigged it yet (or launched it, or much of anything) but I recall that the jib sheets on the 25 are two separate lines with a shackle at one end; this leads me to assume that they would snap onto the jib clew.

It seems to me that I wouldn't want several ounces of stainless steel at the clew of the jib. Wouldn't it whack the mast pretty often? Not every time I tack, but pretty often; wouldn't you think? I think it would start to mark up the mast.

I'm finding it difficult to imagine how a crewmember (or a skipper!) could get hit by it, but boy if they did that would really leave a mark.

I can see that this would make it easier to replace just one sheet if it were damaged; that is the only reason I can see to do it this way.

Is this the common arrangement for larger boats?


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## lajimo (Sep 5, 2011)

I have a 40' and just attach the job sheets with a couple of bowline knots. I don't see that there's any real advantage to shackles.


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## Letrappes (Apr 30, 2010)

You could get eye splices put in your separate jib sheets and connect them to the jib using a soft shackle. I do this on my smaller racing boat and have been thinking about doing it on my 42 as well. It would allow you to be more flexible when sailing.


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## CarbonSink62 (Sep 29, 2011)

As I reread my post I realized that all my boats have had only one headsail. You wouldn't want to run new sheets during a sail change. My question might be answered.

D'oh!


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

If you change headsails while sailing, the shackles save time. Unless you race or are cruising where you might change to a different size jib they are unnecessary, and yes, they do hurt!


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Are you sure that the two lines with the shackles aren't intended as spinnaker sheets? Check the length. I think spinnaker sheets are usually at least 2 × LOA, whereas jib sheets are a lot shorter.


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## CarbonSink62 (Sep 29, 2011)

Thanks, guys.

I can see that shackles would be better for racing where every second counts.

It's a low priority, but I'll probably rerig the sheets and eliminate the shackles.

Adam, No spinnaker on this boat. I'll miss it.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Shackles on jib sheets are just plain dangerous. I even tie on my main halyard. I do have shackles on headsail halyards and spinnaker sheets, although on a previous day racer that we owned we tied the spinn sheets on there too.

The worst kind of shackles on jib sheets are those that can 'snap themselves' onto something like a shroud or a lifeline while they're flailing about on a bad tack.

It is possible to have sheets attached to each sail like you've done before (mid point larks head) and run them on each sail change. Not ideal because you generally end up stowing sheets with the sails and if it's all wet that's not great. But the advantage is you can match them to the required length.. working jib sheets can be much shorter than genoa sheets.

If you're getting a boat with a twin foil headstay then you need to be able to move sheets from sail to sail individually for a clean change. If it's got a furler that's a moot point and not necessary as you're stuck with bare headed changes anyhow.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

I will never understand the lengths people will go in order to not tie a bowline. It’s the most common knot in sailing and we should all have proficiency in tying one. Snap shackles are not only heavy and hurt when they conk you on the head, but they will open on their own when the sail is flogging or rubbing against a shroud while tacking. If you insist on a shackle, you will want to use a “Jlock” spliced to your jib sheets if you feel the need for speed while making jib changes They start at about $120 apiece for 3/8 line and are in the $200 range for sheets larger than ½ inch. My personal experience is they are definitely faster and useful for doing peel away headsail changes. But you can’t wear gloves while doing it which is a disadvantage for your bowman in colder climes.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

If you keep the shackles wear a helmet when you are off to the bow! Head injuries are in second place to foot injuries when sailing. I tie the bowline and wear a soft cap. Take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

Faster said:


> Shackles on jib sheets are just plain dangerous....


Major dittos on that comment.

Shackles on jib sheets are a terrible idea, you only need to get too close once and you will be less one eye. why do you think we see so many pirates with an eye patch? Arrghh!


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

I've only had the single line sheet with the larks head in the middle. However, it is a PITA to change headsails. Question: If bowlines are used, do they get pretty tight?


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## mgmhead (Jan 14, 2007)

Barquito said:


> I've only had the single line sheet with the larks head in the middle. However, it is a PITA to change headsails. Question: If bowlines are used, do they get pretty tight?


Yes, they do get tight...but not overly so. Never so tight I couldn't untie with my bare hands. One could resort to a marlinespike but I've never needed one to untie jib sheet bowline.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

That's the whole point of a bowline... it's a knot that can take a serious load and yet still be untie-able without tools.


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

CarbonSink62 said:


> As I reread my post I realized that all my boats have had only one headsail. You wouldn't want to run new sheets during a sail change. My question might be answered.
> 
> D'oh!


I agree with faster on this; you will probably need two different length headsail sheets, since one sail is a jib and the other a genoa, right? We just use a single sheet on our J24, but the one for the genoa is substantially longer since the clew has to travel so much further during tacks and gybes.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Faster said:


> It is possible to have sheets attached to each sail like you've done before (mid point larks head) and run them on each sail change. Not ideal because you generally end up stowing sheets with the sails and if it's all wet that's not great.


So true, so true.



> But the advantage is you can match them to the required length.. working jib sheets can be much shorter than genoa sheets.


And your light-air sails can have light-air sheets on them.


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## Sea Diamond (Jan 2, 2012)

Yep - 40 years of sailing on various boats (including my present Oceanis 38), and have no advantage of shackles that I know of when crusing. Bowline always lets go if you know how to "Break its Back" which is why it is so famous as the sailors universal knot. 
Many years ago I had to learn to tie a bowline 
-with my hands behind my back 
- in the dark 
- under 10 feet of water 
- with a scotch in my left hand,,, 

OH - I have a Scotch in my hand now...Happy daze......


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## tap (Apr 1, 2009)

Every 30'+ boat I've raced on has used shackles. Yeah there are things that can happen, but it's not as bad as people make it sound. Some smaller boats don't, but I think it's because of weight at the clew and budget reasons.

Lots of racers have jib sheets where that final length, from the winch to the clew, is un-covered dyneema line. Uncovered dyneema or spectra is very slick and holds knots poorly. You also loose almost 50% of the line strength in a bowline. Spliced 12-strand line doesn't lose any strength. So an eye spliced on shackle is stronger. And bowlines have a tendency to hang up on things during tacks.


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## genieskip (Jan 1, 2008)

I haven't sailed on a boat with a metal shackle on the foresail in damn near fifty years. If you don't like a bowline because it hangs up on a shroud in a tack, then, as someone mentioned earlier, put an eye splice in the ends of the sheets and secure the eye splice to the sail with a soft shackle. I did that a year ago and it is far and away the best system. (By the way, soft shackles are easy to make - just google for good instructions)

I've been whacked by bowlines a few times and each time it happens I thank my lucky stars that it wasn't a metal shackle. Frankly, I wouldn't go forward on a boat that had a metal shackle on the clew of the jib in any kind of dodgy situation on any boat bigger than 25 feet or so.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I've choosen for better or worst, long single lines on all the head sails I have, which is 4 plus a storm jib. I personally do not find doing sail changes all that hard per say, as my jib fairleads are large enough to handle to sheets, one goes up, the other down, unattach one at the winch, attach the other.....

My 130 drifter has 3/16 line, the 155 and 140 IIRC 3/8 and the 110 and SJ 7/16" lines. ALL being red based so we know it is a jib/genoa sheet or halyard.

Marty


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

I find such adamant opinions amusing. Do we really know enough about the OP boat to express them? There is gray in our world.

My first boat used small shackles (beach cat) to mount blocks at the clew. No problem.

My second boat did that same (27-foot Stiletto catamaran), except the jibs were attached with carabiners this time. Nope, never flipped off. It had 3 jibs (one was a 130% genoa), a reacher (like a 170% genoa, also with shackles) and a chute. I had her for 15 years and never got smacked in the head; simple rules define the limits of the clew's reach, just as you know where the boom can be and where it cannot. Since the headsails were hank-on, the carabiner made for fast changes. No problems.

My current boat has the genoa fitted with a roller furler, and the sheet is fixed with a larks head. There is also a self-tacking working jib fitted with blocks on the tack via a shackle. No problems. 

____________

So the answer is of course shackles and blocks at the clew can work, but it is rig specific. If the shackles will scratch the mast, they will have already. Take a look at the mast; are there marks?

Rig it the way the PO had it and see how she works. It may be fine for a 25-footer (which is NOT a big boat) or it may not. As for avoiding the shackles, the jib will not be snapping so hard on that boat that you can't grab the sheet and slide your hand up to the clew. Honest.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

GeorgeB said:


> I will never understand the lengths people will go in order to not tie a bowline...


I'm with Faster and GB here. I've taken a pop in the face by the clew while clearing the genny after a bad gybe in big wind. Bloody nose. You'd add at least stitches to that with shackles.

If you've seen a headsail flogging in 30 knots, and you're the bowman, you'll see it's a no-brainer. Tie the bowline.


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## Fiasco1 (Dec 4, 2010)

Bow line is good or make some soft shackles, Or have a loop of Dynema or spectra added to end of sheets in a loop then you can just pull tail thru dynema loop . This is what we use for racing no large bow line knot to snag on tacks.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Bowlines are not too bad either, have done them on some boats I have crewed on. BUT, one needs a 2nd sheet line to attach to the new jib being brought up, or you need to bring both to one side, then move the sheet on the dropped jib over to the other side. And if one wants to tack, raise/drop old/new jib, tack back about as fast as I said, one can do this with two sheets and bowlines, still, you need a third to get you thru the quickness. Hence why I have gone to the dedicated sheets per jib. 

As said, a shackle with a flying not controlled sail is painfull! I have them on the spin sheets, small ones, I have not found any plastic ones as of yet.......

As also said, there is more than one way to skin a cat, horses for different courses.......there is really no right or wrong, just what works best for you!

marty


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## Fiasco1 (Dec 4, 2010)

Better Soft Shackle

Hopefully this works a link to show you how to make a soft shackle.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Here's an easy to follow video for making soft shackles:


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Fiasco1 said:


> Better Soft Shackle
> 
> Hopefully this works a link to show you how to make a soft shackle.


Dude - that is freakin' awesome!! Thanks for the tip!


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

It all depends on how high a clew is from the deck whether shackles are 'safe'.

On my sportboat (ILYA Scow) there is a large 'clew iron' (looks like a metal 'headboard') at the clew and the sheets are connected to the clew iron to a LARGE double block, the jibs used are 'deck sweepers' with the clew only a few 'inches' off the foredeck. 

FWIW - the jib sheets on this boat are 'terminated' onto the fairlead car (becket) --> double block --> back to fairlead car sheeve ---> hexaratchet cheek block, cockpit etc. ... for 2:1 mechanical advantage before any winches, etc. Allows usage of 'half sized' line because of mechanical advantage and thus overall weight is reduced. Yes, it sometimes hits the mast base, etc. but since its AT deck level, no problem in getting hit. 

Doesnt matter if one gets hit by a big knot bowline/buntline or a block or shackle ... the impact value is essentially the same. So, if you ever need to change one while sailing, dont allow the damn sail to flog by keeping it windloaded, etc. or simply drop/furl it before becoming a 'target'. Deck sweeper jibs take most of the 'danger' out of clew impact ... unless youre prostrate/sleeping on the foredeck.


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## robmo (Feb 7, 2012)

Barquito said:


> I've only had the single line sheet with the larks head in the middle. However, it is a PITA to change headsails. Question: If bowlines are used, do they get pretty tight?


If the bowline is tied properly, it can be easily broken by someone who knwos how, that's the purpose of the bowline.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

In heavy weather, those metal shackles will be flailing around like a ball and chain.
Just use orthodox bowline knots.
Tie one bowline to the other so that you only have to untie one of them if you are in a hurry.
.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Rockter said:


> In heavy weather, those metal shackles will be flailing around like a ball and chain.
> Just use orthodox bowline knots.
> Tie one bowline to the other so that you only have to untie one of them if you are in a hurry.
> .


The OP has a relatively light 25-foot boat; just how "heavy" will the weather be with the genoa up? He'll be overpowered upwind in 15 knots, and THAT is why I stated very clearly that shackles are OK on some boats. They can be.

I try to stay with the OP's question. Larger boats are a different matter, but that is not the question.


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## CarbonSink62 (Sep 29, 2011)

pdqaltair said:


> Do we really know enough about the OP boat to express them?


I'm not sure that even I know the OP that well! 



pdqaltair said:


> It may be fine for a 25-footer (which is NOT a big boat)


Yes it is! La-la-la!! I can't hear you!!! 

Thanks much for all the discussion. I only have the one headsail (135%) so having the sheets tied with bowlines for now is fine. I plan to get a working jib as one of my first upgrades (gotta see how well the engine works first).


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## rowfish (Dec 3, 2011)

I have used both shackles and bowlines to attach sheets to a sail. Both have advantages and drawbacks. On big boats that I raced I used a shackle called a J- Lock. that used to be made by Barient, when they went out of business they were hard to find. For the last few years Taska has been making one that is a little heavier than the Barients. The nice thing about J-Locks are they are VERY light and most of the J-Lock is buried in the splice, they won't snag and open and if you get hit in the head it's no worst than getting hit by the splice. Mine are 30+years old and still work fine.


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