# Teak Plug Glue



## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

I've removed my exterior handrails to refinish at home. I'm not going with varnish, but an oil-type finish. Two questions:

1. Do the new teak plugs need to be glued in or just friction?

2. The exterior handrail holes have a nut in them for the interior bolt to screw into. I probably didn't even need to remove the exterior plugs, just wasn't thinking. But should I wait to put them in after the handrails are reinstalled? Or plug up in the comfort of my shop--which means I can finish the plugs in place? Only reason I can think of to wait is if I have trouble aligning and need to see if the bolt is coming through correctly.

Tom


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

1. As long as the plug is deep enough, don't glue them.... just use a little varnish as you install them, then they are easy to cleanly remove if that is ever required. This requires a good match between the drilled bore and the plug cutter size.

2. Are the nuts embedded on the bottom of the rail? you want to be able to make sure that they won't turn as you install the fasteners. A bit hard to visualize just what you are working with!


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

I agree with faster, I believe the nuts/bolts will turn when you try and tighten them. Not only would that be unsafe but will also give you a couple of new leaks in your cabin. I would glue the plugs myself, if only to help keep out water.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

*Glue*

The nuts are embedded in the rail at the bottom of the plug hole, almost 3/8" down. I don't think they are going to turn because they didn't turn at all when I removed the machine screws from the inside rail.

So what I've got are matched inside and outside handrails--the insides are on the cabin ceiling (yes, I'm calling it a ceiling for my own sake here), the outside handrail is on the cabin deck. At each of the 5 supports of the inside rail behind a plug is an inset machine screw which screws through the cabin top into a nut fixture embedded in the support counterpart of the outside rail. I suspect the nut fixture digs down in to keep itself from turning--they are the same diameter as the hole, with no clearance.

When I used a small screw to "jack" and pull the plugs, they mostly came out whole but some broke apart. They weren't completely glued I'm pretty sure, but they might have had a little something in there.

I'm tempted to not glue, going with Freesail there. They fit well. My one experiment in putting one in has it stuck in there--I'll have to run a screw in to get it back out.

But Faster, what glue would you recommend, should I glue them?

Thanks.

Tom


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

You've got me and Freesail confused... I said don't glue them... (smiley thing here)


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Those teak hand grips are probably secured to the deck/coachroof, with SS Tee-Nuts - which look like this:








The Tee-Nut is inserted from the exterior end of the hole, counterbored at a larger diameter to match the pronged flange and teak bung diameter. As you stated, there was no need to remove the bung, since the nut does not turn when the machine screw is removed from the interior face.​
If it was me, I would bed the rail in 4200 caulk before securing the bolts, and use Titebond III waterproof wood glue at each teak bung. There should be no reason to remove the plugs in the future and this would ensure a weathertight bond..​


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Sorry guys, did get you confused. I guess I'll go with a little waterproof glue--and I'll try to leave a mental sticky note to not remove the outside plugs next time 

Thanks all!

Tom


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I like Gorilla Glue. Apply a little moisture, it bubbles up and fills any chips/voids in the wood. It also takes varnish well and blends in with the wood. A couple plugs that fell out on my toerail were too shallow for new plugs, so mixed some fine teak sawdust with the Gorilla Glue, sanded it down and look just fine.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Recommend not gluing or using varnish to adhere the plugs. Simply buy a tapered plug cutter and cut your own (don't buy ready-made plugs). Insert the tapered plug and and it a couple of light taps with a mallet or hammer to set it. The taper will wedge in the hole and seal it too. For shallow holes, simply cut the plug in half with a chisel so that it doesn't go in as far. Trim the plug with a chisel (being sensitive to the grain orientation so the plug doesn't split below the hole's rim). Gluing each plug will only make it harder to remove later and will bugger the hole. I've never had a tapered plug back itself out.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sabreman said:


> Recommend not gluing or using varnish to adhere the plugs. Simply buy a tapered plug cutter and cut your own (don't buy ready-made plugs). Insert the tapered plug and and it a couple of light taps with a mallet or hammer to set it. The taper will wedge in the hole and seal it too. For shallow holes, simply cut the plug in half with a chisel so that it doesn't go in as far. Trim the plug with a chisel (being sensitive to the grain orientation so the plug doesn't split below the hole's rim). Gluing each plug will only make it harder to remove later and will bugger the hole. I've never had a tapered plug back itself out.


Good advice for nice clean holes, but if arf145 is working with anything like I had to deal with probably gonna need some help from the adhesive and filler dept. Old dried out teak is a pain.. And.. the PO had glued the plugs in, so to corroborate what you are saying, they will bugger up he hole! Some of the plugs on my cap rail were literally paper thin...Next time I sand them those screw holes will have to be replaced, but gorilla glue and siekens working well for now! Yet to see how well they handle ice and snow for the first time in my boats 30 year life


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

You will probably want to replace the fasteners since you removed the plugs already. My handrails had frozen screws with dried up adheasive in the threads; so we removed them and replaced with new. You will need to sand down the bottom surface of the handrail to remove the old bedding compound and clean the deck as well. Be sure and open up the holes in the deck and pot with epoxy prior to re-install (if your deck is cored). Use the handrail holes as a drill guide for re-drilling the holes when you re-bed. Also a good idea to chamfer both the deck and the handrail holes with a countersink before you re-install. Bung plugs should be installed last (be sure and align the grain of the plug with the handrail); followed by finish but you -can- re-finish the handrails before re-installing but you will have to trim/sand down the bungs and refinish the area around each bung plug when you are done re-bedding.

I used a razor scraper to trim down the bungs or shorten their length; worked great. A dab of epoxy will fix any plug that has a hole that is slightly too large. Cheap enough to buy the plugs for ~10 bucks or so for a bag of them; if you don't have a drill press and plug cutter...


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## soulesailor (Nov 18, 2007)

I'll second the titebond III glue, it's what I use on my bungs. I like gorilla glue and epoxy, too, but I choose the waterproof titebond for plugs because it makes a nice seal that isn't permanent. If I have to remove the bung for some reason the hole doesn't get ripped apart taking the bung out, allowing me to reinsert a new bung of the exact same size when I'm done.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

I used the titebond wood glue also. Works well.


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## SteveCox (Jul 12, 2006)

Traditionally varnish is used to secure them but if you're not going to varnish the rails I probably would find something else. You definitely need to use something because wood moves and they will come out eventually. I don't like Gorilla Glue because of the foaming and the holes that result in the glue surface. Epoxy would not be a good choice here because you are not putting a UV inhibitor (varnish) on top. Titebond III might be a good choice but it is still fairly new to market and I wonder about it long term in a harsh UV environment. My choice in this instance would probably be Weldwood or another U/F glue. They have a dark glue line and would last in the application. As far as plugs go I wouldn't use tapered plugs because they don't fit as well as traditional plugs. I am also not a big fan of brand names but for this I would buy Fuller plugs and cutters and no others. In any case make sure you buy the counterbore and the plug cutter from the same manufacturer to assure the best fit.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Yikes. And I thought *I* was particular. Plug cutters, eh?

Well, I've got a bag of plugs from Defender--I think they'll do. And yes, I do plan to pot the holes, and to use the countersink method to have a good seal around.

I'll go with Titebond it sounds like. But I think I'll leave the nut fasteners alone. They weren't super easy unscrewing, then again, they weren't frozen up either and only had a little flexible sealer of some kind in them. They cleaned up fine.

The wood of the rail is a little beat and a couple of the holes--especially the end ones--were chipped up. I thought of using some kind of filler, but really, if I trim the plugs off the best I can and finish treating them I think it will look decent--and *way* better than it looked before.

Thanks again!

Tom


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

I know that I've lost this debate , but I'll still swear by tapered plugs. You'd be amazed by how much "buggering" can be filled by a good whack of the hammer. The teak in the plug and hole compress and a really good seal forms eliminating gaps.

Good luck to all, I cede the debate!


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Not so fast, Sabreman... I'll go along with you that good tight fitting plugs need no glue, and will be watertight on their own.

But it definitely means a matched bit/plug cutter set with adequate plug depth, and I could be convinced that nontapered plugs properly fitted would be best. The problem with any taper fit is once it shifts, it's immediately quite loose.

Keep the faith!


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## Lion35 (Sep 28, 2007)

I'm with you most of the way Sabreman. Tapered plugs are the only way to go and making them yourself on a drill press is the way to do it. I do use a very small amount of epoxy to seal the fastener, although many wooden boat gurus would disagree and use nothing at all (as you recommend) or varnish instead. If the teak isn't getting UV protection (something I don't recommend unless its on a deck) I would opt for tapered plugs dry or with a bit of white lead to seal the fastener under the bung. 

To remove a epoxied bung I use a forstner bit. A half inch forstner bit hole fits a fuller tapered plug very well. I've replace well over 1000 bungs/ fasteners on my boat and buying them in non-tapered form by the bag just isn't an option.

BTB: I also agree with the 4200 recomendation.


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## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

Wasn't it Shakespere that said "To glue or not to glue" I am a glue man myself since you remove the plug by destroying it with a fine point philips and a tap from a hammer to split it in 2.
Pigslo


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## bottleinamessage (Aug 6, 2007)

I would avoid using a "permanent" glue as you may want to remove them again someday ( I have). I use teak colored Life Caulk. It provides a watertight seal, but you can remove the plug w/o destroying the bung hole.
Just drill a small hole in the center of the plug and pry out with an icepick. Do your work and set a new plug the same way


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

bottleinamessage said:


> ... but you can remove the plug w/o destroying the bung hole.
> Just drill a small hole in the center of the plug and pry out with an icepick. Do your work and set a new plug the same way


Rather than using an icepick, drill the small hole and then put a small wood screw or self tapper in there, and start turning. When the screwtip hits the underlying bolt/screw, the threads lift the plug out straight and clean, no risk of damage to the original hole.


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