# Morris



## aquestforfun (Mar 2, 2011)

My wife and I had the pleasure of sailing a Morris M36 recently and loved the experience. This boat is a true single handed vessel with a self tacking jib and push button sail control. We currently sail a Catalina 42 which is a great boat but as we get older less work and fewer crew would be nice. I have a hard time spending $400,000 for the Morris M36. They only sell about 6 a year so even the used ones hold their value. Does anyone know of any similar designed sailboats that might be at a lower price point? thanks


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

there are a number of fine day sailors out there. The M36 is a bit of a pig in light airs, but a fine looking vessel. Here are the main day sailors

Schock Harbor 14,20, 25, and 30 
Alerion Express 20, 28, and 33

The Schocks tend to be faster upwind and drier than their Alerion counterparts. The Alerions have a fair amount of wood trim on the exterior which appeals to people. Prices are that the Alerions tend to be 25-40% more expensive than a similarly equipped Schock. 

Alerions are built in RI by Pearson Marine Group which has experienced some serious financial difficulties as a result of some serious quality issues and rework they had to perform on some Naval Academy training sailboats. 

Dunn and Bradstreet recently rated Pearson Marine Group 1 on a scale of 1-100 for financial stability. 100 being strongest and 1 being weakest. 

Schocks are built in Southern California by the WD Schock company founded in 1946. Full Disclosure - I work for WD Schock, but everything stated here is factual.


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## junkrig (Jun 3, 2011)

For ease of sailing nothing matches the modern junk rig. No jib = no jib sheets. Reef all or part in under 10 seconds. Flying gybe can't break anything, the mast is free standing. You never have to go out on the foredeck except to anchor, and presumably that won't be in the teeth of a howling gale.
To tack, put the helm over. To tack again put it over the other way.
With all lines properly led to the helm you never have to move.
Unfortunately, factory junk-rigged vessels are rare; one often has to go with custom builds or conversions. That said, very good junk-rigged boats in the 35 to 40 foot range can be bought way below $400,000.00. Like say 75k to 125k range.
If you get a junk you definitely want modern cambered sails. Old style flat sails are weak to windward.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

aquestforfun said:


> My wife and I had the pleasure of sailing a Morris M36 recently and loved the experience. This boat is a true single handed vessel with a self tacking jib and push button sail control. We currently sail a Catalina 42 which is a great boat but as we get older less work and fewer crew would be nice. I have a hard time spending $400,000 for the Morris M36. They only sell about 6 a year so even the used ones hold their value. Does anyone know of any similar designed sailboats that might be at a lower price point? thanks


Go visit the Catalina factory and watch them build a boat then go to see Cuyler and the boys up in Trenton and then tell me that the price is too much... You can't compare the construction quality of a Morris to much outside of its price class. There are no cut corners on a Morris and attention to detail is about as good as it gets. Some models of Morris Yachts today sell for more money that they originally sold for. Can't say that about to many boats...

I have had the opportunity to visit many boat builders and Morris really sets themselves apart. To truly understand a Morris and their price you need to see how they are built...


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

aquestforfun said:


> Does anyone know of any similar designed sailboats that might be at a lower price point? thanks


The Morris 29...  Sorry about that.


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## aquestforfun (Mar 2, 2011)

Thanks for the comments. I will check out the 2 boats mentioned above. I took a tour of the boats with Cuyler Morris and someone from the sail staff. I don't disagree that these are extra fine boats and probably better build boats than most so I am not questioning the price they are selling them for. When I asked them what the warrantee was they salesman just stuck out his hand and said this is it. Don't be concerned we will treat you like family long after your purchase. I believe them. Although for legal reasons they do have a spelled out warrantee. I just don't want to pay it if I can get a decent single handed sailer for much less. My wife was more than ready to sign on the dotted line but I never buy things on emotion even though they made it tempting. As far as the 29 my we are not interested as the head is in a place that is anything but private. BTW they are having their annual boat show at the end of July for 3 days which we are going to attend. If anyone is close enough to Bass Harbor Main its more than worth the visit. Thanks


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hello,

What about the Sabre Spirit
Sailboat Hand Crafted in Maine; Sabre Spirit Sailing Yacht

or the J boat J 100
J/100 Weekender-Daysailer: The Ultimate in Day Sailing Freedom- The Ultimate 33 ft Sailboat For Sailors Who Love Day-sailing.

Barry


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## KindOfBlue (Nov 22, 2005)

You can check out the *e 33*


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Assuming you are looking for ease of sailing, Tartan, Hanse and IIRC some Newer Jeanneau's have a self tacking jib option. As do some of the more recent added boat brands etc. Granted the ones I mentioned do not have the M36 or equal looks, Then again, the J100 does not have that look either. BUT, they are daysailor/weekend boats. 

Marty


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Morris spends some 25-45% of it's revenue on Marketing, that is money not going into your boat. 

Aside from some nice glued on wood trim and clever castings, Morris build quality is similar to other build to order sailboats. 

Morris warranty issues are fairly similar to other build to order boats ( at least on their boats in the West Coast )

The most significant downside of the Morris daysailor line is that they are simply sluggish in the water.


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## MooGroc (Sep 22, 2009)

WDSchock, I'm curious how you know what they spend on advertising? I thought
they were a private company thus making that kind of info kind of hard to come by.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

It is fairly easy to generate a decent estimate based on knowing the industry. Part of S.O.P. in understanding the industry landscape. 

We spend between 5-10% of revenues on marketing. 

BTW - J/Boats is another enterprise that spends a healthy percentage of revenue on marketing. Most people inside the industry describe J/Boats as a marketing company, not a boat company.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

WDSchock said:


> Morris spends some 25-45% of it's revenue on Marketing, that is money not going into your boat.
> 
> Aside from some nice glued on wood trim and clever castings, Morris build quality is similar to other build to order sailboats.
> 
> ...


I suspect you'd be better off not continuing to make assertions or bashing your competitors in an attempt to gain free marketing on an internet forum. Please sell what you have don't try to bash the competition to make yourself look good.

You're beginning to sound like the Craig Smith of day sailors...


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Maine,

Just the facts - 

Morris spends a significant amount of it's new boat revenues on marketing. This is easy enough to estimate. 

The Morris build quality is certainly well above production boat builders such as Catalina, Beneteau, or Hunter, but not significantly different than any of the build to order series sailboats on offer in the US.

Morris day sailors tend to be sluggish in the water.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

Maine Sail said:


> I suspect you'd be better off not continuing to make assertions or bashing your competitors in an attempt to gain free marketing on an internet forum. Please sell what you have don't try to bash the competition to make yourself look good.
> 
> You're beginning to sound like the Craig Smith of day sailors...


Well said. WDSchock, you're not really competing with Morris, so you're not really doing much for your own 'marketing' here. Kind of like Ford slagging on Bentley.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Thanks for the compliment, you aren't the first that describes our Harbor line as Bentley of sailboats.

However - Morris day sailors are certainly better than Fords.


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## Aac (May 24, 2008)

Just had a look at the Morris web site Daysailer launched in Northeast Harbor Maine | Morris Yachts - boat builder of daysailers and ocean series semi-custom yachts and I see:

"The decks are clean and lifelines are an option. The springy sheer cuts a fine figure."

How would you feel going foraward without lifelines; I thought lifelines were mandatory.


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## ereiss (Nov 25, 2002)

*Then there are Freedoms*

While not new, Freedoms are simple to sail. Our F38 is a pleasure, stiff, loves a good wind and comfortable. Okay, no boat is perfect but the Admiral and I are both delighted with it.


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## Pamlicotraveler (Aug 13, 2006)

Just seeing this thread. Kinda funny...WD you should at least get a fake name before bashing the competition.

I think Morris Yachts are among the most appealing and best made boats in the world.


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## landmineop (Sep 2, 2010)

Another one worth a look is the Southerly 35RS.


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## junkrig (Jun 3, 2011)

Aw, wd, come on. Play fair. I'm willing to stipulate that you believe you build great boats if you'll quit making me read advertising disguised as posts.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

In the end, it matters not what the builder thinks of his creations, but what the customers think.


Lifelines are not mandatory by the way.


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## junkrig (Jun 3, 2011)

I know that... my point was at the other end of the sentence.


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## petmac (Feb 27, 2007)

WDSchock said:


> Maine,
> 
> Just the facts -
> 
> ...


LIFES TOO SHORT TO OWN AN UGLY BOAT (and I'm not talking about Morris)


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

Yacht's are different.

I remember an old Jean Shepard's America where he defines a yacht (if you're not old like me, bet you can find these on youtube).

He describes a scene as a young boy sitting near a waterway with his dad. Watching working boats go by, eventually a boat goes by his dad describes as a yacht. He asks his dad what a yacht is. He says that "a yacht is a boat that doesn't do anything." It doesn't carry cargo, it doesn't fish for profit, .......

No one needs a yacht. No one needs to do business with a particular builder. We do this because we enjoy the entire experience. This includes choosing, buying, conversations with others about boats, reading posts on sailnet, working with builders, working with brokers, getting things just right on the boat you own right now, dreaming about the next boat, sailing, cruising, racing, passage making, grilling off the stern rail,.... It's all good. The right boat for you is different than the right boat for me. That's part of what makes it fun.

I'm on boat 5 now, which happens to be a Morris. Morris is old time Maine, do business with a handshake, deliver what you promise, quality and care beyond the specification, pride in workmanship, a personal connection with everyone from layup through paint; not lawyers and contracts, not hubris, about quietly doing the right thing. 

Yup, I'm a biased happy owner, and through that process have a number of friends up in Bass Harbor. No other affiliation.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

WDSchock said:


> Thanks for the compliment, you aren't the first that describes our Harbor line as Bentley of sailboats.
> 
> However - Morris day sailors are certainly better than Fords.


Clever clever... I most certainly was not complimenting you're product lines. Carl Schumaker / S&S you're not. You're in the industry. Act like a pro, not a sales stooge


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Cape cod,

Certainly all true about the experience of purchase. Morris spends a lot of effort on creating that experience for their owner's - they do a fine job of marketing and creating a ambiance about their product.

The rest - curious why everyone is so defensive about Morris. 

I haven't bashed their quality, just said their build quality is similar to the other build to order builders. We do some of their warranty work in Southern California and have a fairly deep understanding of their level of build quality. 

It is my sincere calculus that the reason Morris price their boats so extravagantly isn't because they cost so much to build, rather because Morria spends a very high percentage of their revenues on Marketing - as aptly described by many in this thread.

And yes, industry insiders have described our Harbor line as Bentleys of sailboats. We don't spend hardly anything on marketing, so we can put more into the boat.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

Personally I took offense to you're placing a complement in my mouth. Not knowing you, it's difficult to read as anything other than being a kind of childish putdown. There are many nice boats on the market and choices are as much emotional as anything else that we invest in. The point being is that folks who want a Morris will do their damndest to have one regardless of what you or I think about their construction or marketing costs. A Swan customer isn't going to buy a Morris, and chances are your customers aren't going to buy a King/Mills boat. Personally I wish Pacific Boat Works, and Alsberg Bros were still in biz and that Carl and George where still here and drawing lines, but that's just me.


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

WDSchock said:


> Cape cod,
> 
> Certainly all true about the experience of purchase. Morris spends a lot of effort on creating that experience for their owner's - they do a fine job of marketing and creating a ambiance about their product.
> 
> ...


I don't think that anyone has been defensive about Morris. I think people have just been trying to tell you that on this friendly site, your unrelenting bashing of a competitor does not reflect well on you or on your product. Put simply, you are not helping your cause by putting down the other guys.


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## rjcaudle (Jun 27, 2010)

I can single hand my Tartan '34 fairly easily. Has one electric winch and self tacking jib. However I usually add sheets to the self tacking jib anyway as the sail shape is improved with increased control. Boat handles rough water well.

Boat sells for around $200,000 new. The '37 is a significant step up in cost.

Don't see many on the secondary market. Found mine used in FL.

rjc


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## Jaywalker (Dec 16, 2009)

FWIW, I read WDSchock's comments as advertising perhaps, but not "bashing," which should mean "unwarranted criticism," but has apparently come to mean "any negative comment, even if accurate." He said Morris build quality is comparable to other custom boats; is this inaccurate? He said the M36 is sluggish in the water; it's a heavy day-sailer, can it possibly be lively? Personally, I believe choosing a boat would be easier with more candor in the fora.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

I'm always put off by any manufacture speaking negatively about another, even if gently so, maybe even if it's warranted. That's for the sales pitch at the office, not from an industry pro here amongst the hoi polloi, and especially if they really aren't even competing for the same buyer/demographic.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Pudding,


You might be surprised by the demographic of the buyer of our Harbor line of boats. They could buy any boat, any size, at any price.

They are very sophisticated boat buyers who know boats and know them well. They are not impressed by slick marketing or clever brand positioning. The vast majority pay cash, less than 2% finance their purchase.

Our buyers enjoy that we do not have brand labels all over the boat. The sail cover doesn't have a logo. Our buyers do not need to loudly proclaim they have arrived.


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