# My Escape Plan - Insights Wanted



## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

Hello everyone, new to the forum and excited to see all the great posts and information! 

So, after 9 years I've decided living 8 hours a day in a cubicle just isn't cutting it and I think I've stashed away enough money that I might be able to buy a boat, head south and self sustain for quite a while. 

I want to lay out my plan and hear from those of you with actual experience living this life what I may be missing. so please feel free to give your insights on my thinking around boat, destination, route, financials, or any other areas I'm maybe missing something. 

Background: single guy, 40ish, no kids, raised sailing/racing a 35 footer on Lake Erie, 7 years in the Coast Guard, lived on my 37-foot Islander in Hawaii 2 years and a 35 Cruisers power boat for 2 years in North Carolina. Currently don't have a boat and live in Pacific Northwest. 

The Finances:

Since I need the prep time in a number of areas, I'm giving myself 11 months to prepare. 

I'll be selling everything - house, car, motorcycles, etc and if I wait to leave after our annual bonuses in Sept, I'll have just over $300k in various accounts, including 401k. 

I plan to spend about $50-60k on a boat and $25-30k outfitting it. I'm thinking I'd buy it outright to avoid need to carry insurance. Currently liking the 80's Moody 37 or 376s. Seem well-built, comfortable cruiser with decent speed/sailing manners and a solid reputation. 

That'll leave me about $200k in the bank. I'm thinking at 5% returns, I'm bringing in $10k a year. While I know you can spend a fortune cruising, I'd like to stick to a $500/month living budget = $6k year. Is that realistic? 

I'm also thinking about $4k/year maintenance/repair budget. 

So $10k a year incoming and $10k a year in expenses and I wouldn't have to touch my principle balance. This makes me think I can be pretty self-sustaining for quite a long time without having to work. But maybe I'm deluding myself. Is this a realistic budget for a 37-foot boat? 

Insurance is a major concern. I'm thinking I won't get it on the boat, and I'm not sure about getting it for myself. I'm pretty healthy and don't typically need doctors. Do most cruisers have health insurance? How does that work in Mexico/Bahamas/Caribbean? Seems like this expense alone could blow my budget. Maybe Obama care will help! Or maybe I don't get it? 

Escape Plan: 

Use the winter prepping myself - diesel repair, first aid, spanish, SSB and navigation classes. Plus reading books on cruising - good books I should get? Plus finding the right boat. 

I'll sell the house, buy the boat and move aboard next spring. 

Spend the spring and summer prepping the boat, testing and practicing and leave in late Sept/early Oct and head straight down the West Coast stopping in harbors along the way so I'm doing mostly day trips. 

Probably start off with a friend helping me make the passages so I can have some extra safety margin as I acclimate to the boat and long sails. Ideally hook up and shadow some other cruisers along the way so I can learn from more experienced sailors too. Is there an annual southern migration from the PNW I could join? 

Goal is to get down to Mexico by end of October and then spend the next year or so cruising the Baja Peninsula & Gulf of Cali. 

Then thru the Panama Canal and cruise Caribbean for a year or so. 

Then probably a major haul out and head to Europe/The Med. 

So, that's the plan so far. What do you think?


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## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

Sounds great! Lots of luck & may the winds be with you!..Dale


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

If I had that financial set up no one would ever hear from me again. I've done it a long long time on not nearly a fraction of what you have. Never had insurance on my boat and only recently have health insurance, I still get my dental done in Honduras because it' cheaper than my deductable.Go for it!


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

eric-the-red said:


> That'll leave me about $200k in the bank. I'm thinking at 5% returns, I'm bringing in $10k a year.


Where do you get 5% from? I like the plan but you are not going to get more than about 1.5% on any "safe" investment. You might find an introductory rate a bit higher but even then, not 5%. The only way you might realize 5% will be by accepting some risk and actively manage your money and, if you have the skills and the risk tolerance to do that, think about the mechanism(s) you will use to keep track/trade from a boat. Or think of what else you can do along the way to make some extra money.

Good Luck to you!

BTW, if you have a safe way to make 5%, I'd REALLY like to know.


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

Also , look into penalties for early withdrawal from your 401k. I'm not a tax expert by 10% + income tax comes to mind. 

If you have someone local who can help out, look at the numbers for renting out your house - still not risk free though!!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I was about to raise the same question. Ok down here getting 5% is doable on bank deposits but getting harder to achieve. In the US with interest rates much lower than in Oz I'd have thought 5% would be a fantasy unless you ran a very stocks and shares portfolio but that to me doesn't fit in with getting away from it all.


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## Frogwatch (Jan 22, 2011)

I don't intend to criticize here but I've been thru this too. If you feel the need to escape, you are living your life wrong. You need to be doing something about which you are passionate so it become less a matter of escape as simply needing a short change of scenary.
Unfortunately, figuring out how to make money doing what you are passionate about is difficult but attempting to find such might be less complicated than what you are planning. I found my passion by pure luck, becoming unemployed.


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## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

Capt.aaron said:


> If I had that financial set up no one would ever hear from me again. I've done it a long long time on not nearly a fraction of what you have. Never had insurance on my boat and only recently have health insurance, I still get my dental done in Honduras because it' cheaper than my deductable.Go for it!


That's good to hear. How much do you typically budget for a year of cruising?


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## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

Geoff54 said:


> Also , look into penalties for early withdrawal from your 401k. I'm not a tax expert by 10% + income tax comes to mind.
> 
> If you have someone local who can help out, look at the numbers for renting out your house - still not risk free though!!


I'm looking into rolling the 401k into an IRA, so it wouldn't be a savings account, it'd be a managed portfolio of stocks and bonds. 5% seems reasonable, and yes, i get there are risks, but long-term the stock market has always gone up. I have a money manager who would run the account, and I'm planning to meet with him to discuss rolling it over in the coming week. I get that there may be taxes and penalties. Hoping to do this over years so that I might minimize penalties as I could maybe claim hardship and my "income" is taxed at a very low rate or no rate.

In terms of "escaping" and not living my current life right...that's not really the case. I've actually got a great life, lots of friends, and a job that I enjoy. But ever since I was a wee lad, I've dreamt about sailing and exploring the world. I know there's more out there for me. And my passion for exploring and being free is much greater than my passion for work and a "regular" life. Life is short and I want to do this while I'm still physically capable and adventurous-minded enough to pull it off.

To be honest, I feel like the world has only so many "good" years left before some massive changes start coming down the pike.

And I know I only have maybe 10-20 years to do this, if I'm lucky. No disrespect to those older than that - it's awesome to be 70+ and cruising, but I'm not going to trust my dream to the dicey odds of being physically and mentally fit into my 60s and 70's.

I'll accept having less luxurious elder years with amazing memories of my 40's and 50's, rather than getting to 60 and thinking I spent 20 years in cubeland when i could have been exploring the world.


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## Cruiser2B (Jan 6, 2011)

eric-the-red said:


> Hello everyone, new to the forum and excited to see all the great posts and information!
> 
> So, after 9 years I've decided living 8 hours a day in a cubicle just isn't cutting it and I think I've stashed away enough money that I might be able to buy a boat, head south and self sustain for quite a while.
> 
> ...


I think that you have the right idea, I really don't know what cruising costs are but I am planning for it right now. I think you are setting too much aside for a boat and refitting/outfitting. Many many capable cruisers out there for much less.

Good luck on your decisions and travels!


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

I wish you well; Seriously. Just be careful. Although easier now than it used to be, it is still difficult to try to deal with financial matters from the other side of the world. If you have someone you REALLY, REALLY trust, consider leaving them with Power of Attorney.


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

On a gut feel basis, I'd say your budget is light. Living on $500 a month means you're basically living in poverty...perhaps with a view. Also, dont forget to budget in regulatory fees and such. Entry/exit, visas, registration, etc.

Also, without insurance, you can likely forget about staying at a marina as a minimum of liability insurance is usually required to stay for any duration of time.

Can you save up another $100k and then go? $15k a year seems like its a lot more doable than $10k a year. Also, 5% return on AVERAGE means you'll have years where you'll lose money. If you lose money early in your investing cycle...your LONG TERM real returns will dramatically be lower.

Now, that being said...why do you need to preserve principal? If you're able to get 5% return and then also extract from the kitty, sure you may not have much at the end of your cruise, but you can work for the rest of your life!

Here's a couple that did it and their costs:

http://www.bumfuzzle.com/pages/Main Pages/Cost.php

I'm a big fan of the way they did it...but you can see that they had some means.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

You are getting some good feedback so far. You could also work a bit to cover some expenses, but, that is up to you.

I just think it's nuts to not have insurance on your boat. IMHO, of course, YMMV.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

eric-the-red said:


> That's good to hear. How much do you typically budget for a year of cruising?


I can cruise around the caribbean on $1000 a month like a king. I almost never go to a dock for more than a night every once in a great while, I have practically no sensitive systems that need repair and parts that I can't do with out. I can load up on a month's worth of food and booze for few hundred dollars. I spend $12,000 a year top's. That means if I had $200,000 cash in the bank, ( almost a 1/4 mil.) I could cruise for 20 years! I may spend as much as 3 months anchored in some off the grid lagoon in central America and not spend a dime. I may spend $500 in a weekend partying in town, and take off for another month loaded up with provisions and not spend a dime. For the gadget boat, marina to marina cruiser it's not possible. For the bare bones, singlehandler your budget is a dream. The initial cost is setting your self up for self sufficiancy, then you spend money when you want to, not because you need to. A lot of dudes don't get it. They need equipment and supply's that keep them tied to the dock with an imaginary ambilical chord. The acronym K.I.S.S. comes to mind. My boat is worth 5 grand top's. 1965 Soverel 28 with no engine. ( a small out board for close quarter hip towing) I have a handheld gps from a pawn shop and good used sails and gear, extra large ground tackle. I never manuever near other boats at I higher speed than I can fend off with a finger. My insurance is in my ability to handle my boat and deal with what ever the ocean cough's up. There are a lot of sailors out there that would be nut's to run with out insurance. 24 years of cruising and I've never come close to needing the false sense of security that extra cost woud supply. (I've sunk my boat twice by the way)


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I did much the same thing when I was 43. best decision I ever made. 7 wonderful years before I went back to work.

Couple of thoughts.

The miles from Panama to the Eastern Caribbean will not be fun. 

Refitting in Florida might be a better option. Stuff is generaly more expensive as soon as you leave the USA. There are exceptions though GRP work and paintwork is cheaper in Trinidad.


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## ChristinaM (Aug 18, 2011)

The purchase budget on a Moody 376 seems tight. I tried to get one that I felt would cost $100k after purchase and basic refit (not including all the outfitting I felt I needed) but it wasn't going to happen. There aren't that many on this side of the pond and while they aren't well known over here, people still want a higher price for them. If you're considering looking at the ones on the east coast, I've seen them and would be happy to give you my impressions and experiences. There was one that sold for around 60k that I didn't get to see so it might be possible.

Glad someone else appreciates them too. If you're willing to go a little older, I did find a few Westerlys with similar layouts that were a little older and a little cheaper. None were close enough to see although I did check out a late 90s Oceanquest.

I haven't left yet, so I can't comment on cruising budget. It'll be a few years before we pull our cash together and head off. I would recommend The Voyagers Handbook for a thorough discussion of what you'll need to do and know.


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## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

Hey everyone, thanks for the great replies, thoughtful insights and links! Please keep them coming! 

To answer some of the questions: 

I could touch the principle, but every time I do it reduces my annual "income" and shortens how long I can get away with not working. Obviously I will do it when/if needed.

I could also work another year. And then another, and be 50 before I know it. Another year would basically see another $35-45k in savings, so that would still not get me to $15k/ year. Or I can go sooner and see how it goes. There's a slim chance I may wait an extra year anyway, it all depends on how well I pull off this last big project I'll be working on. 

I'm certainly open to the occasional odd job to make ends meet. The concept of transporting boats or doing some chartering is very appealing, though I know I'll need a license to do so. 

I'm not interested in living the life of a pauper w/ a great view, but I'm also not thinking I'll be tying up in a ton of marinas and eating at fancy restaurants. I like cooking and fishing. 

As for the Moody's - yes, I'd be very interested to know what you've found on the east coast. I've seen them for about $80k and figured there's room to negotiate. I may also look at smaller, newer boats. But I do like the Moody's quite a bit.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

All through the 90's and early 2000's I sailed between the Caribbean and key West. I would work a few months in Key West in bar or as a house painter, save, supply and back to the Caribbean. I've never been a pauper or poor. If you told me I could have 200 grand in the bank and bring in 15 grand year! sh!t, that's more than living large. Even on my pittance of an income I've been eating out and drinking in the clubs, traveling to inland destinations etc. You are more than financially ready to start the cruising life my man.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

Eric,

Frankly if you thought you could live on $1,000 a month, and you probably can. It would be best to have about 1,500 a month from interest. This way your principle grows faster than inflation, and you can keep ahead of the curve. Alternatively just a little bit coming in each year from paid work can really help add back to the principle. 

Just 1,000 a year in paid work is the equivalent of having an additional 20,000 invested (at 5%) if you can pick up enough piece work to make even 5,000 a year, that's like having an additional 100,000 in the bank. Which would allow your principle to grow faster than inflation (this is the real key).


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I doubt the refitting costs are too high if you want to get it right before you set off. 

Whether that is really necessary is debateable, refitting as you go along may well work provided of course boat is basically sound to begin with. OTOH, if you need new standing and running plus new sails and a major engine overhaul then that budget starts to look sensible.

While I would be prepared to head off without comprehensive insurance no way would I go without third party property and public liability.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

First of all... I am 41, and doing it. Not my first time though. We had our kids aboard at 5 days old. We have known little else than the boat, though we have been through several. I need to start off with many disclaimers: we have cruised on and off for over a decade, owned fixed keels since circa mid 90's, and had the benefit of sailing on boats long before that.

Now, next disclaimer of sorts: Capt Aaron is one of a handful of posters on SN that I highly respect. I really like his advice. I find it typically right on target and he and I generally agree on most things. I really think it is a case of one who has made his dreams fit into his checkbook. BTW, Aaron, hope to meet you soon. We are Tortugas in a few weeks, and likely keys thereafter. You buy the first round!!!

THat being said, I could not live and cruise like Capt Aaron (CA) does. THis does not make my way right or my way wrong. It is a difference of opinion. That is all. I repect his opinion immensely... but I prefer refrigeration, a variety of meal, and what I consider a comfortable lifestyle for my family.

Your $500 would not even cover our food budget. We push clost to $800/month. Food in Florida is much more expensive than PNW. I know that because I just got back from there. My Pops keep his boat there. We spent considerable time there abd we love the people, but with the exception of housing, found it relatively cheap compared to FL. Just one of todays examples is that I went to Publix today ad got a great deal on a whole chicken for $1.89/lb where that same chicken in WA for sale is $.89-.99 lb. Double your food budget in the south.. with a big exception to be read shortly.

We had good friends that were going to sail out of Vancouver (CA), then south through Mexico, then the canal, then the carrib, etc. God love them, but they met the folks in the baja and never left after five years. But you will have a LOT of adjustment being from the PNW. THe heat is one thing. WHen the low is 85 at night, you better get used to it real quick. If you plan on outfitting in FL (which is a great idea), I can give you a LOT of advie. I love this state for the cruising (as does Capt Aarron), but many things have changed. Insurance is one. A decade ago, a cruiser could get away without insurance. However, any marina that I would stay at anymore requires insurance. In the islands down south... I have no experience. But most of the US marinas now require insurance... and they require you listing them on the policy. Just a warning!

In Florida, we pay between 10/ft - 20/ft for a month. 

My maint bill realistically runs $150/month. I can give you a better idea if I add it up, just pulling this off my head.

My insurance, $225k incl. Bahamas is $2700/year. You can get less... or you may pay more. A friend of ours had his similar policy dropped and Boatus wanted roughly $5000/year for the same (actually less) coverage. We have never had a claim and I have over 15 years with them.

THe marinas are great. You meet some incredibly well traveled people and it is a great camraderie. There is no way I could anchor out 24-7 like others do. I enjoy camraderie and dock partys, group destinations, internet access, access to h2o and elec, groceries, pumpouts, etc. Remember, in the gulf, you are 3 miles out to pump out (though I think they havre changed this to 12 nm... whatever). So the thought of just anchoring off an island and enjoying its benefits without any negatives are not legal unless your holding tank can accomodate a good bit. We go through 45g holding in about a week if we are really conservative. Now you can jump pump it out into the bay, but that is another discussion.

We try to spend a good portion of our time anchored out. We love living off the anchor. I put in 4-kyocera 130 watt panels and 4 4d lifeline batteries for 840ish amp hours on the batts and a realistic 200 ah/day on the solar. Many days it is less. Your budget for elec will run a solid 100ah/day unless you are a minimlaist. Realistic is 150-180 ah/day. How are you going to generate that? I have over $7000 in my solar arrays (the best investment I have made). A diesel generator like mine (Mastervolt 3.5) sips the fuel at .25/gallon.hour. However, it is 15k installed. You can go with a Honda, but the fuel will eat you up over time. I can get you exacts as that is what most cruisers here use, reluctanty. They often found that the cost of running it equaled out very close to a marina and ended up going there. 

My bottom line is that I can give you exacts on what we cruise on, but rememebr we have two kids on board. Our cruising local is FL and Bahamas. Carrib is coming up if we dont do the East coast hitory tour first. My numbers and yours are very different. 

ALl that said, you can do it and I think you should leave sooner than later. It is a wonderful life. You will finally be a part of a community, something many Americans have lost sight of. My best friends I meet on the water. They are incredible people and will do anything for you. Land based, it is a wonder if you even know your neighbors. And when you get tired of your backyard, you can change it at a moments notice. It is wonderful. Words cannot define how great it is.

Brian

PS September is really pushing the departure date to head out of the PNW. Get your boat south or in FL.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

CD, I'll keep an eye out for you. I'll buy the first couple of round's. I'm thinking Dante's, pool w/ waterfall for the kids and umbrella tables with service for the big kid's and close to the dingy dock. 
Insurance, it's true I got away with it for over 20 years, but will probably buy some sort of minimal package this year (reluctantly) as I know insurance company's generally find a loop hole to not pay anyway's. At 41 and 3/4's I am now becoming a more responsable citizen ( reluctantly). as a singlehandling dude, who finds comfort in dim light, soft jazz music a good book and a bottle of rum, and as long as the rain is only falling on my feet and not dripping on my head, I am as cozy as can be. the amount of electricity I don't use would astound most cruisers. The freedom I have due to the lack of need's has been the foundation of my ability to live the life for so long. This bare bones type of adventure cruising is not for every body. I feel guilty, like I'm betraying myself when I get on the cumfy gadget yacht's that I deliver, that's just me. I think Eric the Red, (ETR) will find a nice balance and seem's to have all the right finances, training, and attitude to be quite successful as a liveaboard cruiser. best of luck to you man.


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## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

Thanks Brian and Aaron! And thanks Christina for the long and informative email about the East Coast Moody's.

Since I'll just be supporting myself and the boat (at first anyway, never know who might end up joining), I'm assuming I can cut the numbers Brian spends by at least 2/3 since he's got 4 people (figuring in some economies of scale on his side). 

It's those monthly fees that turn into the real deal killers, and insurance is looking to be an issue. $5000 a year is literally half my budget! For what amounts to nothing but the protection of some weak words on paper that apparently I'll need to get into a marina? Do I need that just to moore up overnight or is that more of a long-term thing? 

Will have to check into that more closely. This could really push me to working & saving a couple more years, depleting savings and expecting to need to go back to work after a few years, or needing to work while I cruise, which isn't exactly part of my current dream, but I suppose sacrifices must be made. That comment about how earning just a few grand working is the equivalent of mass quantities of saved money was an interesting one. 

Clearly I need to put some more thought into how I can generate cash. I know I could rent my house, but that would add risk and take some of the interest earnings away as well. 

I speak w/ my financial advisor tomorrow, and I may find tapping my 401k will be a big hit to my numbers too.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

For Eric:

I think you are probably fine on the $10k per year. It's not a lot. Many are on three times that amount and quite impoverished.
But if you stay in Mexico and the Caribbean it's fine. Good life and can be cheap.

I doubt you'd need $30 k to outfit a boat. Whadda ya gunna do? Put a jacuzzi on it? You would be better IMHO to pay more for a fully fledged boat... The $70k mark is good to get a vastly more modern boat... Maybe ex charter from the Carib. Start there, perhaps.

If your idea is to escape and doodle about the coast doing overnighters and gunk holing for 5 to 10 years in South America and the Caribbean you do not have to outfit for ocean passages.

I agree you don't need insurance. You wouldn't get it for solo sailing anyway. 
Medical insurance is the same. As soon as you are out of the USA medical prices plummet. I got a sun cancer cut out of my back in St Martin by a proper surgeon for the price of a consultation in the USA. And if you really get sick you go to panama or Cuba, lots of cheap, GOOD, places.

The only drawbacks to your plan is its no escape. If you are running away from life you will fail as life is all around. If you are rushing to "find yourself" you can do that at home.
Also as a 40 year old intelligent, single person, you may find cruising in a sea of old people, with little mental stimulation, to be BOOOOOORING after a few years.

So make sure you have a plan (that bulltwaddle: " we have no plan and are sticking to it" is a recipe for dementia.) that's going to challange you and your intellect. It could be history, geography, whatever, but it must be something.


Mark


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

CruisingDad hit the nail on the head with his last comment about buying the boat in South Fla. We have a surplus of seaworthy used boats selling for a song. Don't get all caught up on a specific boat brand, rather look for a specific design. Blue water, reasonable draft,5 feetish or so. And the Caribbean is our back yard. It's true marinas in Fla. generally want insurance, but not down south. Liability is kind of an American thing. Mexicans don't sue eachother like we due. Central and south Americans shrug their shoulders at disaster and move on. Anchor out anyway's and you won't need the insurance, don't let that be a deal breaker dude.


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## night0wl (Mar 20, 2006)

One more comment. $5000 a year for insurance is *RIDICULOUS*...that amount is likely for an agreed value yacht insurance policy with a low deductible. I have a $126k agreed value policy with liability/indemnity for *FLORIDA* with navigation up to the Northeast and out to the Turks/Caicos and it costs me $1700 a year for a 34-35' sailboat docked behind my house. Older boats, of course, will pay more...but then you dont need a full agreed value policy on an old boat because they're just not worth that much and you're better of "self insuring".

For you, who would likely just get indemnity/liability coverage in case you hit someone, or you case some kind of environmental disaster with your fuel spill. Liability insurance with a good umbrella policy of $1MM should be much much much less. I got a quote for a umbrella policy for $1mm coverage for $300 today from Geico...just required my yacht liability policy to have a $300k minimum coverage.

Now, you could also play all sorts of asset protection tricks. The worst that would happen then would be that you lose the boat in case of an accident. IE, form a Florida LLC ($125 up front + $138 a year) and put the boat title in the LLC name. Now, if you're willing to lose the boat (which if you have liability only, would happen anyway)...you're pretty much scott free except your PERSONAL liability for causing damage (again get a good umbrella policy to protect you there).

There are ways for those that are savvy to deal with the liability bugaboo...doctors are really good at this.

Its the rest of your budget that concerns me.

Also, *DO NOT* withdraw from your 401k early. If you do, you'll get whacked with a 10% penalty and pay taxes on the withdrawl. If you can, take "DISTRIBUTIONS* from your 401k. There is a subtle difference. Distributions of "substantially equal periodic payments" are not hit by the 10% penalty...just ordinary income. And if you're taking less than $15k a year, well, you'll pay some taxes, but likely get it back in credits. Welcome to being one of the "47%" Basically, you need to "annuitize" your 401k

See this from IRS site on retirement plans here: http://www.irs.gov/Retirement-Plans...garding-Substantially-Equal-Periodic-Payments

Is there an exception to the tax for distributions in substantially equal periodic payments?
Yes. If distributions are made as part of a series of substantially equal periodic payments over your life expectancy or the life expectancies of you and your designated beneficiary, the §72(t) tax does not apply. If these distributions are from a qualified plan, not an IRA, you must separate from service with the employer maintaining the plan before the payments begin for this exception to apply. If the series of substantially equal periodic payments is subsequently modified (other than by reason of death or disability) within 5 years of the date of the first payment, or, if later, age 59½, the exception to the 10% tax does not apply. In that case, your tax for the modification year is increased by the amount that would have been imposed (but for the exception), plus interest for the deferral period.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Capt.aaron said:


> CD, I'll keep an eye out for you. I'll buy the first couple of round's. I'm thinking Dante's, pool w/ waterfall for the kids and umbrella tables with service for the big kid's and close to the dingy dock.
> Insurance, it's true I got away with it for over 20 years, but will probably buy some sort of minimal package this year (reluctantly) as I know insurance company's generally find a loop hole to not pay anyway's. At 41 and 3/4's I am now becoming a more responsable citizen ( reluctantly). as a singlehandling dude, who finds comfort in dim light, soft jazz music a good book and a bottle of rum, and as long as the rain is only falling on my feet and not dripping on my head, I am as cozy as can be. the amount of electricity I don't use would astound most cruisers. The freedom I have due to the lack of need's has been the foundation of my ability to live the life for so long. This bare bones type of adventure cruising is not for every body. I feel guilty, like I'm betraying myself when I get on the cumfy gadget yacht's that I deliver, that's just me. I think Eric the Red, (ETR) will find a nice balance and seem's to have all the right finances, training, and attitude to be quite successful as a liveaboard cruiser. best of luck to you man.


Cant wait to meet you. There are actually several cruisers I look forward to meeting. Do love St Pete though. Ever been here? Wow... I was wrong to miss it for so many years. Great, great people, lots to do, most everything is bikeable, reasonable costs, etc.

We are in te Tortugas Nov 26-1st week of December. If youa re free and open for a sail, look for Sea Mist IV. You come, I buy the first round! Well go snorkel the windjammer together.

BTW, your attitude is exactly what I love. Does it all work for me? No. So what!?? It works for you and that is all that matters. It is also great for other cruisers or would-be cruisers to hear it. Some will be more like you, some more like me, and some off what I consider the deep end (lots of money and never leave the docks). I see them all. You do too.

Take care CA! Look forward to meeting you.

Brian


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

eric-the-red said:


> Thanks Brian and Aaron! And thanks Christina for the long and informative email about the East Coast Moody's.
> 
> Since I'll just be supporting myself and the boat (at first anyway, never know who might end up joining), I'm assuming I can cut the numbers Brian spends by at least 2/3 since he's got 4 people (figuring in some economies of scale on his side).
> 
> ...


If you cruise like I do, you will not cut your numbers by 2/3. That is just food. THe only other exception is Live Aboard fees. If you sign a L/T contract (non-transient), they generally hit you for $50 the first person, then $25 each person thereafter. That is per month. THis is more prevalant down south (Ft. Myers Beach and Keys) than further north. In Pensacola they couldn't give a crap and it was a lot cheaper. But up north, you get a "winter" (not to be confused with a real "winter"... snicker).

ANyways, the killers are the insurance. However, My boat values at 225ish (maybe 250, I cannot remember exact). So, you could see your insurance costs less. However, the couple I am quoting was for a trawler of 125-150 value. They were Canadian, so maybe that effected it? Also, was a trawler. However, they were very experienced boaters.

Now, some good news. We are also part owners (my pops boat) of a Tayana 42 Vancouver. Insurance coverage is 150kish. He pays 1400ish/year for PNW. Because I have been patron with BoatUS, they wrote him under me (and since I own part of boat... so yours might be more). However, the point is that the cost for PNW is quite a bit less than down south. I do not know your rates in Mexico or S Ca. Other might help. However, even in the PNW (Olympia - Swanstown Marina), he had to provide insurance. I think the days of avoiding insurance are coming to an end in the US unless you really anchor out all the time. Was not that way IIRC 10 years ago. They couldn't care less. Problem with the PNW is that you really only get about 4-5 months max for sailing unless you are a harbor seal. Even they head south for the winter. Also, when you get to the Baha, there simply isn't a lot to spend money on. Food (if you will buy it) is reasonable. People are super friendly. This last part is hear-say from friends of ours that spent 5 years there.

What is going to kill your budget is the marinas and breakage. They go about hand-in-hand. Major breakage is a marina or a yard. For example, our neighbor across the slip had to replace his lifelines on a Crealok 37. THey were aluminum and he changed to SS. That was $5,000. Would have been a month in the yard too. Just one of those will screw your budget for the year.

The trick to all of this is learning to do things yourself. Aaron has mastered that, but has grown up with it. Those that have not have a steep learning curve. Yeah, any moron can duct tape something together, but when you get offshore, that is when your duct tape will be tested - not the marina. SO learn to do things right, the first time. THere is a reason sailors do things the way they do and have done for hundreds of hears. The newer boats have a lot more systems and things to break, but the lesson is the same: Learn your boat and your systems yourself. Money has less to do with it than the reality that in some places, it is only you to fix it.

Now you may be thinking a lot of negatives. I hope I have not provided them. I am giving you my perspective on things. THere are a million things to learn about being a Mobile Live Aboard. That is what we all are. But I wake up to the sea and gorgeous sunrises. I am with my kids all day. I am in an atmosphere of people that will do anything for you. I have control over my own life. It really is what you are talking about - a great life and wonderful reminder of what living is all about. The only real caution is that once you come here, it is hard to ever go back to where you left.

Let me know if I can help with anything.

Brian


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## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

Thanks Mark and Aaron, you guys are giving me hope that next fall could work! 

I alluded to this before, but to be clear, I have a pretty great life right now. Great friends, good job, lots of activities that I'm passionate about, and the money to pursue them. So, escaping was perhaps a poor choice of words. But after working in cubeland for 15 years or so, I'm ready for a life change. I'd be escaping a perfectly fine "normal" life for something more exotic. And I'm not looking to find myself...I know who I am. I love exploring. I love challenging myself. And I love sailing. And I love not working. Actually, sometimes I love my work too, but the idea of having the freedom to go where I want, stay as long as I want, and explore ot to my heart's content is very appealing. 

A "sea of old people" is both hilarious and enlightening. I imagine many have some fascinating tales to tell, and that I'll find some younger interesting people exploring local towns. 

And if I do find I don't like it, I can always sell the boat and go back to normal life, right? I do get that simply stepping back into where I was is not likely to happen. I'm ok with this. 

I've read that you typically need to put in about 30% of the cost of a boat to equip it for extended cruising. Thinking I'll need a pretty good solar power system, watermaker, maybe wind gen, and great nav electronics and a powerful and super reliable engine - not neccessarily repower, but have a mech go through everything. I can see all that running 25-30k. But you're right, I can probably find most of that on a used cruiser. 

Hadn't thought about buying in Fla, but maybe I'll start looking there as well. No reason I couldn't just live in a tent while checking out boats for a couple weeks. I'm not really planning on ocean transits. Maybe after a few years try to get to Europe. Maybe. Primarily coastal cruising. I guess "gunkholing", which is a new term to me. That's when you just find a spot to anchor that's not a port or harbor? If so, yeah, that's the plan. Writing, reading, photography, windsurfing and snorkling will all be done in mass quantities. Add to that biking and busing to explore inland. 

So, couple questions about "the life". 

When you're outside the US, do small towns and small ports typically have anchorage spots to throw down for free or do they charge? If they have moorage bouys, what do those cost typically? What about tying up for a few days down in the Carribbean and S. America? How much is that usually? 

Also, what do you guys do during hurricanes? Outrun them? Ride them out in a protected anchorage? Anchor and get a hotel? Put the boat on the hard?


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

DIDO.I delivered a columbia 38 from passe-a -grille to K.W. last Feb. and fell in love with the place as well. I get off the tug on the 21'st and go back on the 4th so yes indeed I'll be around. I don't know where you are staying in Key west but my charter boat is at Safe Harbour Marina on stock island. Nice funky little marina 4 miles from down town and close to the reef. Probably a little cheaper than down town. Cool bar and rest. at the dock, the Hog Fish. It's like what the key's used to be. 
I'm just glad there is a bunch of us out there catch'n some wind and going places. Weather it's around the bay or around the world. On a yacth or in a dory. Would I rather cruise on 50 foot Cat with a big budget? ofcourse. I wasn't going to let lack of oppulance and funds stop me is all. I'll P.M you my phone # when I get to land. Looking forward to hang'n out.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

You're getting some great cruising advice and different perspectives. Since we don't really know you, all we can offer are different perspectives. You'll have to sort out what is best for you and I wish you well in the adventure.

The financial part does seem very shaky to me, so pay close attention to it. There is no way on earth to rely on 5% per year after taxes (perhaps penalties in your case) not to mention foreign exchange risk. Not to mention that over time, inflation makes things more expensive, but your principal isn't growing to provide a higher cash flow on your return. Not talking you out of going, but I'm pretty certain the math doesn't work.

Further, your brief description of your current lifestyle might suggest that living on the absolute edge of your resources would be a serious adjustment. Again, only you can know. But one thing missing from your budget that most cruisers seem to budget is a periodic flight home to see family or friends. Often annually while you get maintenance done.

As far as maintenance goes, single items can cost your entire annual budget and eventually will. You can't sail forever with the same sails or rigging. I'm sure you can scrounge and save.

My financial advice would be to save as much liquidity as you can, outside of your 401k. Go cruising until it's gone. Keep it invested safely (low return) and try to supplement with odd work, if you can. Let your 401k continue to earn untouched and build tax free. When you're out of everything else, its time to go back to work. Not a bad deal really. 

Best on your adventure. (p.s. you did make one mid-life crisis comment above, but I'm not going to dwell on it. It's for you to sort out)


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

eric-the-red said:


> Thanks Mark and Aaron, you guys are giving me hope that next fall could work!
> 
> I alluded to this before, but to be clear, I have a pretty great life right now. Great friends, good job, lots of activities that I'm passionate about, and the money to pursue them. So, escaping was perhaps a poor choice of words. But after working in cubeland for 15 years or so, I'm ready for a life change. I'd be escaping a perfectly fine "normal" life for something more exotic. And I'm not looking to find myself...I know who I am. I love exploring. I love challenging myself. And I love sailing. And I love not working. Actually, sometimes I love my work too, but the idea of having the freedom to go where I want, stay as long as I want, and explore ot to my heart's content is very appealing.
> 
> ...


From Isla Mujeres to Cartegenia to Port Antonio Jamaica there are many small town's to anchor off for free. South America is Generally agood place to stay out of the Huricane belt. Rio Dulce is a good place to stay protected, cheap Marinas. Most things that have broke on my boat I've tossed and realized I never needed rather than replace. I broke a life line stantion 20 years ago and just got rid of the life lines, I wear a harness. My engine sh!t the bed so I tossed it. Boat sails better. My delfatable dinghy puntured so I started paddleing an old windsurf board like a sit on top Kayak. it stows well on deck, no one wants to steal it and I'm healthier. My centerboard popped a hole in my hull 200 miles off shore so I stuck a chop stick wrapped with a sock in the hole and it stayed that way for 6 months untill I careaned my boat on a beach and fixed it with some epoxy. There is alway's a way.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

You can take the word marina out altogether.
I only ever go in to the fuel dock. Ok it's different while I am cruising the USA but I have saved for that.

As far as I see the biggest expense in you early move would be the Panama Canal.
With that and boat prices in Florida and the Caribbean I think looking there is a good idea.

As Arron said many things he has tossed off his boat. Don't chuck the engine, but don't buy anything whatsoever in the first year. Except solar panels.

I always worry when people use the words refit or outfit. WHAT? What does one need to outfit? All reasonable boats that you can buy for $70k should have sails, GPS, plotter, refrigeration and a good autopilot. What else do you NEED?
Ditch the idea of a water maker and buy a blue Jerry jug for $20 
You are in the tropics, do you NEEEEEEED a new Bimini, enclosure, added canvas? Buy a boat with that crap on. I have a Bimini and after 4 years would like a dodger, but that's after 4 years.

An epirb cost $400, cm93 charts downloadable off the net and Opencpn is free. You don't need radar as there's no fog in the tropics. You're not crossing the Atlantic so why spend $3k on a life raft.
You do need a dinghy and outboard, but start small and old. Second hand outboards in Florida are $500 for a 9.9hp.

Don't listen to all the crap about storm sails, rerigging, keel bolts, generators, wind vane steering, wind generators.

One other thing, you seem to be stuck on one boat brand, and an old series of boats. Remember salt water, no matter what old sailors say, ruins boats. Anything from the 1980's will be very old. Expand your horizons.

Just as an example, I'm not suggesting this boat or type, it's just that I know them, and their prices cos I own one... http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=40064&url=
2002 year, 39 foot, asking $89,000 is probably ex charter and done up afterwards. I would think $70,000 could get it if the guy is motivated.
At least it's a start to looking at other boats. IMHO far better than an 1980's boat for $50,000.

All the best.

Mark


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

There are deals around in the Caribbean. see CLICKY

You have enough money if you follow the Pardey's golden rule

GO SMALL GO SIMPLE GO NOW


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

I'm retired Navy, my monthly pension check is going to be our only sure source of income. Fortunately, we have planned for this for a decade and have reserves to augment it without hitting the principal on those reserves we figure to have 3 times what Eric is planning for income.
We'll also have medical care in just about any U.S. port - and help in most overseas places as well.

We really don't want to be 6 months in and have a engine crap out with no way to replace it. Frankly that's the thing I see wrong with the minimalist budget plan - no reserve. 

Maybe we just need to get on the boat and go already. 

ON the other hand, that bad word 'outfit' does need to happen on a a lot of boats, and it can indeed run to 30-40k. Boat bucks add up. 
We bought a very gently used Irwin 38 CC, it has no auto pilot, no solar, no water maker - in short not a dang thing that wasn't on it when it slid into the water in 1987.
50K buys a GOOD hull, not a well outfitted boat with reliable gear. 

That stuff adds up and some of it you can't do 'on the way'. 

If someone out there has a surefire way of hitting 5% on investments with no risk, send me a PM.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

The systems a retired couple NEED are the same systems a singlehandling barebone's guy does'nt WANT. My buddy bought a 38 foot 1967 columbia for $10,000 last feb. and is somewhere in the Caribbean now living the life. I never sail into something I can't sail out of, that's the reserve. Sound hull, stout rig, decent sails and rudder that goes back and forth when you push and pull on the tiller and your sailng. Throw a DEEP CYCLE car battery and 100 dollar solar panel on deck and your sailng at night. Men that learned the way's of the world in suburbs, sold the house and bought the dream, have a set of needs much different than those of us raised and make their living on the sea. I'm obviously on the extreme end, but there is a very reasonable balance of safety and comfort that fall's ten's of thousands of dollars short of what a lot, or most cruiser have been told or think they need.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

chucklesR said:


> I'm retired Navy, my monthly pension check is going to be our only sure source of income. Fortunately, we have planned for this for a decade and have reserves to augment it without hitting the principal on those reserves we figure to have 3 times what Eric is planning for income.
> We'll also have medical care in just about any U.S. port - and help in most overseas places as well.
> 
> We really don't want to be 6 months in and have a engine crap out with no way to replace it. Frankly that's the thing I see wrong with the minimalist budget plan - no reserve.
> ...


A few weeks back, we had a dock party. Our neighbor next to us showed up and was stumbling. We all thought he was drunk, but that was a bit out of character for him. Didn't see him the next morning. Turns out he had a stroke. His boat is soon to be up for sale. He is done.

About two and a half years before that, had another dear friend who was planning out his retirement and cruising. He was an avid sailor and even ran a small charter for a year in the carrib. His wife and he were absolutely awesome. We stayed out that night having a few drinks and a great time (his wife was out of town). Went to bed (his boat was a few down from mine). Woke the next morning and did not see him walking the dog as usual. Shrugged it off. Figured he was hung over. By noon, his dog still barking, I began to have second thoughts. Dad and I knocked on his boat to no answer. I didn't like it so sent dad to tell the marina and I proceeded to break into his boat. I found him dead beside his vberth. Heart attack. I dearly miss that friend and still wear an old shirt he gave me which I will never get rid of.

Don't let it happen to you. When your boat is perfect, your body may not be. I don't totally agree with the advice of just going, but I do believe that you should be cautious about overloading the boat with all the things you think you will "need" and turns out they are nothing but a PITA and you don't use them much.

Understand that I am not Aaron or Mark (both of whom have given great advice). I raise my kids on my boat and I have a higher level of comfort which I expect. But there are things on my boat I would not buy again and some I wish I had that I have just found work-arounds. There is no shortage of things you can buy for your boat, as you will see!! But in the end, when you are anchored, all you really need is a good set of ground tackle and a boat that doesn't leak (from below the waterline at least!!). The rest you will figre out for yourself. Hang in West/South Florida to check out all the places (there are a LOT) and enjoy the cruising life here while knowing a yard is close by. Figure out what works here, then try the Tortugas. Go to the keys and anchor out for a week(s). THen push off further. You will be a lot happier you did that than being another year or two older and having a bunch of stuff you may not even need, or wish you had spent it on other things that you really do.

Just my opinions as a friend.

Brian


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

I'm notorious for pushing the limit's. Those of you who have not been absolutly broke and homeless are quite naturally, deathly afraid of it. When I was 28 after 10 years of living aboard and cruising, I sold the boat and traveled around with a jungle hammok, Flew to Guatemala and hitch hiked to Bellingham Washington and back to The key's, staying mostly in National Forest's. I ate peanut butter sandwich's and macaroni with hot dogs cut up in at at catholic and methodist churches from Portland to Austin. I worked day labour and washed dishes. Could I travel like that with a wife and two small childeren? ofcourse not. Could I cruise and live aboard like I do with a family, absolutely not. For Eric the red, his intro years are best served doing like Brian say's, gunk holing around the soft bottom and tranquil forgiving water's of S.W. Fla. Near boat yards and services. shaking down himself and the boat. Then push off from there. You want to go through that learning curve on your own and put the girl and what next on board once you've mastered some of the essential skills, and added and subtracted the essential equipment. My engine died forever well after I did'nt need it anymore. My pressure pump died after I figured a pump up bugsprayer makes a better shower and you can do most of your washing in the clear clean Caribbean waters. My fancy dinghy died right about the time I needed the excersise of paddling anyway's. My main sail blew out right before I found that used sail company in Sarasota. My whisker pole broke right after I found out a closet pole and a rolling hitch was easier to deploy. Some one stole my 25 pound danforth while I was using it right after I deployed the 45 pound CQR and 100 of 5/8 chain. THE SHAKE DOWN. get it off me, get it off me. Like when Bernard M. cut the drogue he was dragging in the roaring forties and found Joshua handled better with out it.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

I (we) hear you Brian. 

It's because of those health issues that we need the next 2.5 years, autopilots, windlasses and lots of power for the lux's in life. Not to mention padding the baby feline (kitty). 

Aaron, you have my respect for minimalist sailing, but it's not for us.


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## KelleyG (Sep 12, 2012)

My boyfriend and I are getting ready to leave for our new Caribbean life as well. We leave just after New Years from Florida. We plan to take an extremely frugal approach and hope we can stick to a 1200 - 1400 a month budget. We have a 1974 34' Seafarer that we've spent the year "outfitting." We didn't spend anywhere near 70K so we needed to make a few updates to her before she'd be ready for the trip. Thank you all for sharing your experiences. They make me more confident that we can actually do this (budget wise) if we are determined enough.

Kelley
Sailing Chance


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

chucklesR said:


> I (we) hear you Brian.
> 
> It's because of those health issues that we need the next 2.5 years, autopilots, windlasses and lots of power for the lux's in life. Not to mention padding the baby feline (kitty).
> 
> Aaron, you have my respect for minimalist sailing, but it's not for us.


Thank's and yes of course, I got my boat from my Grand parents who upgraded to a center cockpit something or other. I plan to spend my later years aboard a 50 foot Cat with four bedrooms and four heads and a bar with and out door shower and a hard bottom zodiac, two deisels and some rugrat's running around deck. I'm still bare bonesing it but as my career in the Merchant Marines is moving along and my finances along with it I forsee some wonderfull comfort cruising on the horizon. Glad as @#!*% I spent the first 20 years of adult hood cruising like I did and looking forwrad to the next 30 doing like I will. I just want the OP to realize how little he needs and not be detuored by the ominous, over whelming and daunting expedition he's about to embark. He's going to have person after person saying "well you need this and can't go with out that and what about this.... and finances and reserves and portfolio's and this % of this %......" It really is as simple as catching a breeze on the right boat and sailing south. Buy some tomatos at the market when you get there and sautee them up with the capers and canned chiken breast you bought in Bulk last month a BJ'S. For some 200,000 bucks is almost broke and for some it's stinking rich.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

KelleyG said:


> My boyfriend and I are getting ready to leave for our new Caribbean life as well. We leave just after New Years from Florida. We plan to take an extremely frugal approach and hope we can stick to a 1200 - 1400 a month budget. We have a 1974 34' Seafarer that we've spent the year "outfitting." We didn't spend anywhere near 70K so we needed to make a few updates to her before she'd be ready for the trip. Thank you all for sharing your experiences. They make me more confident that we can actually do this (budget wise) if we are determined enough.
> 
> Kelley
> Sailing Chance


Hey Kelley,

Go for it. It will be great. Are you waiting until January to leave NY? I have not done that, but seems it will be a cold and bumpy ride.

Look forward to seeing you guys down here.

Brian


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

No right or wrong. We could probably give it all up and make do from here out. However, our kids would pay too. We are fortunate enough to fund their (very expensive) educations and other things they can't do for themselves yet. If we keep going (and make it), we will have a very comfortable retirement. I get the thought of potentially dropping dead and missing out. That's a risk for sure. 

However, we spend as much time aboard for 7 months as humanly possible and will try to get a week or two in the Caribbean this winter. This only works because we are working. In the end, we spend probably 90 days aboard each year, while working. Its pretty close. 

If the plan works, we'll retire at 60 and spend 6 straight months aboard each year and 6 ashore doing day sails. If our health holds out, that should be good for the rest of our lives, or until we're physically unable to sail. 

For me, I'm still shooting for that, rather than blow it all now. Just me.


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## ehmanta (Sep 12, 2006)

Here's an option for you:
When you sell your house, buy a small commercial space if available for a decent amount. Rent this space for commercial rates and you'll find that these rates rock compared to residential plus commercial tenants don't complain nearly as much as residential folk do. Pay a friend to manage the property for you or pay a management company. figure at least 6% for that fee.
At the end of the cruise, sell the property and hopefully it has increased in value by then but your principle should mostly be in tact. My thought on this is that the rate of return should be way higher than the 5% that you would be lucky to get in an annuity. 

just a thought.


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## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

Well, excuse the pun, but I'm blown away by the great advice and variety of opinion on here! Thanks to all, I'm learning a ton. 

What I'm learning: 
The big picture I'm getting is that you can do it on virtually any budget, depending on how crafty, dedicated and willing to rough it you are. I'll be having a big discussion w/ financial advisor today to get a much better picture of what I can expect. I am starting to think about supplemental sources of income. I could see working a seasonal job for 3-4 months a year and that basically paying for the rest of the year, allowing my savings to continue growing. I could also rent instead of selling my house, and that would bring in some money, though exposing me to more risks as well. There may be some freelancing opportunities too. 

While I want a larger boat 37-40 and to be comfortable, I probably lean a bit more toward Aaron's lifestyle of doing the work myself and figuring out ways to do things inexpesively (but in a seaman like manner). I bought the 37 foot Islander I had in Hawaii for $15k and sold it for $35k after putting maybe $3k and many hours of my own work into her...so I'm a do it yourself kind of person and definitely look for deals. I've broken even on 4 boats I've had and made money on 3 of the boats I've had - a total of $25k in profits. Hmmm...maybe I'll buy and sell boats!  

Based on responses I'm also definitely going to expand my search for the boat, both in types of boats I'll consider and regions to shop. I think now that if I don't find a great deal on a great boat in the PNW that when the time comes I'll get a cheap car and just start driving east, looking at boats along the way. The idea of getting a boat in the great lakes or chesapeak bay is very appealing. And starting from florida would work too. 

I'm also rethinking what I'll need to outfit with. I think you guys are right - start with the boat as is, make sure it has a bimini, safety gear and motor in excellent condition, some solar power and just start...I can always add stuff as I go and that's sure to save me money in the long run.

Would still like to hear what costs are involved in mooring to buoys, anchoring and docking in the carribbean? I imagine my favorite part of this will be the mix of finding isolated anchorages and spending time anchored outside of small port towns, taking the dingy in and meeting people/exploring, but not sure if there are costs involved or if that's free? Perhaps it varies.


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## KelleyG (Sep 12, 2012)

Cruisingdad said:


> Hey Kelley,
> 
> Go for it. It will be great. Are you waiting until January to leave NY? I have not done that, but seems it will be a cold and bumpy ride.
> 
> ...


We're having the boat shipped to florida where my family is and will leave from there. With Sandy and the Nor'easter that just came through or window to leave is pretty long gone now. We'll be leaving Florida around New Years though!

Kelley
Sailing Chance


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

If I was cruising on a budget, I would plan to have a new-generation anchor and all but never take a mooring or clearly never a slip. The much bigger expense of cruising the caribbean is going to be entry fees into each country, if you are going to move around a lot. Look them up. Some are breathtaking, IMO. Many even charge you to leave (departure tax)!! Wild stuff.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Minnewaska is right, entrence fee's, extensions and departure ( which I rarely pay) bring the biggest baddest ground taclke you can handle and call it your personal mooring. I have 70 pound danforth stored where my engine was> gigantic for a 28 footer, my primary is 50 pound CQR with 100 5/8 chain. I've never and I mean never paid for a mooring. Any where there is a mooring field there is anchorage. The harbours anchorages are'nt policed like the States or Canada. Marinas in the western Caribbean are generally 5 bucks a foot or so. Not the Yacht Clubs. avoid the word and people who think they are on a yacht. a yacht is a 100 feet or more and has a professional crew clipping your toe nails for ya. You are a sailor on a boat, with that mind set the world is your oyster and living is free.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

eric-the-red said:


> Would still like to hear what costs are involved in mooring to buoys, anchoring and docking in the carribbean? .


You never need to pay to anchor in the Caribbean. Mooring balls at about $20 per night. But you would never use them if you are on a budget.
marinas the same, I have never been in a marina, but once or twice, in the Caribbean.

Some places in the Caribbean are really quite cheap. Grenada, for example is $10 per month, free anchorage, $1 bus to town. You could stay for 6 months on your visa (?) and just wait till your investemnts catch up.

Even in the expensive places like the BVIs anchorages are there, and free.

If you restrict yourself to South America, Mexico, Caribbean up to the Bahamas its all quite affordable if you need it to be.
But you need to exclude the USA, and thoughts of the Pacific, Europe, Africa etc till your finances and boat work itself out over a few years.

The first year is the most expensive.
But after 4 years I still have difficulties... but I can now afford other people to do important work: the engine, etc. even bottom painting.

And I can afford to go get drunk and eat out! YIPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


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## rcoles (Sep 16, 2010)

Great summary on Estrellita's blog:


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## CaptTom (Aug 27, 2012)

I appreciate all the different perspectives here, and the realities of the details.

I'm putting together the finances of my own plan, and I think I'm going to be OK, but my backup plan in case of unexpected expenses or just plain boredom is to find some part-time work I can do while cruising.

Any ideas?


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## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

There is always someone looking for a mast climber!...Dale


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

So, what did the financial planner say?


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

CaptTom said:


> I appreciate all the different perspectives here, and the realities of the details.
> 
> I'm putting together the finances of my own plan, and I think I'm going to be OK, but my backup plan in case of unexpected expenses or just plain boredom is to find some part-time work I can do while cruising.
> 
> Any ideas?


Generally speaking, unless you have a skill which allows you to work remotely (IT, internet based business, writing, etc.), if you are anywhere except the U.S. you will be working illegally. Be discrete and leave before you upset the locals who usually do that work legally.


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## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

Just had a fascinating discussion w/ my financial planner. Basically, he said go for it (!)

Some really interesting thoughts on it as well:

- I can take my 401k, roll it over to an IRA, and set it up to take an annuity - someone here referenced this - and not only will I not have to the 10% fee, I won't even have to pay taxes because my annual income will be below $15k. There's a whole complex formula, but basically I'll be able to pull out $2-3k a year from the 401k tax free. Once you start this, you have to keep doing it though. So every year you have to take out the same amount. 

He also suggested I use my savings/IRA as collateral to take out a low-interest loan to purchase the boat instead of just buying w/ cash. He's saying taxable bonds will return 5-6%annually, that I won't have to pay the taxes due to low income, and the loan might only cost 2-3% in interest since it's secured by cash/stocks/bonds. I get there is some added risk with this, and not sure if I'd go this way. 

Combined with the 401k annuity, he thought other savings accounts/IRA account returns could provide me $10-15k I'd need to live off of with a fairly conservative portfolio. If I'm only spending 10k I could be growing the principle a bit, at $15k I'd probably be eating into it. It'll fluctuate based on returns. Of course inflation eats into it in any case. 

I think the key would be my willingness to make up for poor return years by taking on some additional work. I can see working 2-3 months a year not really bothering me too badly, and maybe providing a welcome change of pace. And with a couple hundred grand cushion, I'll still have flexibility to work when I want and not work when I don't want. 

So there you have it, financial advisor says go do it - you'll save on taxes!


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

eric-the-red said:


> Just had a fascinating discussion w/ my financial planner. Basically, he said go for it (!)
> 
> Some really interesting thoughts on it as well:
> 
> ...


Then we hope to see you here soon...

Brian


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## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

Entry fees? Departure fees? Good lord, everyone needs a piece of you don't they? 

So what are some low, high, avg entry fees you guys have paid? 

Capt. Aaron, do they hassle you when you return to a place that charges a departure fee when you return, or do you just X that off your list of places you'll go in the future? I'm really starting to think I should follow you around for a few months!


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Sorry for the late entry fee here but I have been off looking at animals in Kruger NP in South Africa before returning to the boat. A few comments:
- government fees can range from zero (Martinique, South Africa) to close to $1000 in places like Ecuador and Panama. Bahamas is $300 over 35' I think. It really varies and you have to check around. In some countries you must use an agent and that adds an extra $100 to $150 generally. In some countries you have to check out of and into each harbor, often at no extra cost, but it is a hassle.
- boat prices on the east coast are generally much cheaper than the west and the sailing south is easier plus you don't have to go to windward from Panama to get to the Eastern Caribbean
-my wife and I have cruised on an older (1982) 45' boat for not much more than $1000 a month excluding full insurance on the boat and marina costs when we have left the boat to go land cruising - generally when waiting for the local hurricane season to pass. We do not have health insurance and have spent very little on health care (<$200 in 4 years) - and we are older, but generally quite healthy
- I think you will be fine financially in particular since you would have emergency funds available if something happened like an unexpected major repair (after a serious grounding for example) or significant illness or needed operation
- I would expand the boats you are looking for. Have a friend with a Moody and it is a nice enough boat, but I think you can get more boat for less money. When considering the boat, you should consider whether you plan to stay in the Caribbean or coastal Mexico or whether you might want to head out across the Pacific or to Europe. In the latter case you might want a more substantial boat. This boat would likely not be quite as comfortable as one better suited for the Caribbean only. ie, there is a trade-off between ruggedness and comfort - unless you are prepared to spend much more money.


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## sail123 (Jul 10, 2012)

Have fun!

The four grand a year for Maintance is not enough. Some months could run over that. Set aside about ten grand a year, and do your best to not use it all. 

I read it costs twice as much money to keep a 40' boat afloat as it does a 30' boat. Larger sailboats have a harder time getting under bridges as in the Florida waters, and a harder time in shallow waters, around most any beaches you might become interested in. Bigger is not always better. Little harder to dock a 40's something sailboat over a 30's something sailboat. 

Sailboat's are like gloves, pick the one that fits.

Also doubt you can stay in a monthly budget of $500. That is pretty much a beans and nothing else to eat budget. Living on the water does not mean you dine on fresh marine life every meal.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Glad to hear you're feeling good about it all.

However, you're now going to make $15k on $200k per year, which is 7.5%? Ask him to give you an example of one taxable bond that yields 5-6% these days, particularly after his fee. The risk free 5 year treasury rate is about three quarters of one percent. The only way you can increase yield is to buy lower credit quality or extend maturity. The former means you may not get your principal back if the issuer bankrupts. AAA rated bonds are currently paying in the mid 3% range. Locking in for longer terms means you will still be getting those yields, when the rest of the world starts getting much more and inflation is ramping up prices. 

Just be smart with your money. The choice is yours.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

eric-the-red said:


> Entry fees? Departure fees? Good lord, everyone needs a piece of you don't they?
> 
> So what are some low, high, avg entry fees you guys have paid?
> 
> Capt. Aaron, do they hassle you when you return to a place that charges a departure fee when you return, or do you just X that off your list of places you'll go in the future? I'm really starting to think I should follow you around for a few months!


I'm not suggesting you do this, but when I know I'm not coming back through a country like Belize, or Mexico for a year, I usually just leave. I've never in 20 years been asked how come I did'nt clear out last time , and never been asked by the next country where my exit stamp is from the last place I was. But you have 200,000 dollars in the bank, I've almost only had the cash in my pocket and it's never been more than a couple grand. I sailed down to mexico with 200 bucks in my pocket, cleared in, had 50 buck's left over, and stayed for 3 months taking Lonely planet Backpackers sailng in exchange for nights out and groceries, I only left because some Irish Dude payed me to give him a lift back to the states, When I got to Key west, I Bar backed for a year and saved enough to sail back to Mexico and open my own Bar. If your only half as resourcefull and a 1/4 as rugged as I'm guessing, your in great shape right now with out the % of this and that bullsh!t. And buy the boat out right, you want to own your boat. Look on Sailboatlistings.com-Florida, and keep it under 50 grand, I would'nt spend more than 30 G's on a westsail 30 something footer If I was you. Very forgiving boat for the learning curve of offshore passage making, wich you will be doing in the Carribean, it's not all lagoon sailing down here, you have to step off shore for a few day's here and there to get anywhere. Just my 2 cents and it's probably only worth a penny.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I wouldn't call it bull$hit, but I respect a different opinion. 

Perhaps, having seen some relatives get older and have nothing, including any remaining resourcefulness at their age, it has jaded my opinion of why one should be weary. Unless one dies too young, the odds are near zero that one will sail single-handed for their lifetime. These particular relatives could have saved, but instead, the rest of the family or society is taking care of them now. 

I say, go out there an cruise. Just have a good plan to remain self sufficient over the long term and its a beautiful thing.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> I wouldn't call it bull$hit, but I respect a different opinion.
> 
> Perhaps, having seen some relatives get older and have nothing, including any remaining resourcefulness at their age, it has jaded my opinion of why one should be weary. Unless one dies too young, the odds are near zero that one will sail single-handed for their lifetime. These particular relatives could have saved, but instead, the rest of the family or society is taking care of them now.
> 
> I say, go out there an cruise. Just have a good plan to remain self sufficient over the long term and its a beautiful thing.


Ya, no, it's not bullsh!t, He' should get as much as he can with what he has. I have a 401k and investments and I want the best return I can get. I'm just say'n, you put 200 grand in my saving's, I could get by pretty comfy on the interest off set with the odd job and under the table back country charters.


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## scratchee (Mar 2, 2012)

This thread is not nearly as entertaining as the ones for people who have no chance in hell of pulling this off.


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

Geoff54 said:


> Where do you get 5% from? I like the plan but you are not going to get more than about 1.5% on any "safe" investment. You might find an introductory rate a bit higher but even then, not 5%. The only way you might realize 5% will be by accepting some risk and actively manage your money and, if you have the skills and the risk tolerance to do that, think about the mechanism(s) you will use to keep track/trade from a boat. Or think of what else you can do along the way to make some extra money.
> 
> Good Luck to you!
> 
> BTW, if you have a safe way to make 5%, I'd REALLY like to know.


Who do you bank with?? You might want to shop around some. Just saying. this is my rate of return in a low to Mod investment 401-k nothing risky. Its not earning as well as mi wifes.

3 Months-- YTD-- 1 Year --3 Years --5 Years--- 10 
3.89% --11.38% --9.20% ---9.84% ----2.10% -- 5.47%


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

Stumble said:


> Eric,
> 
> Frankly if you thought you could live on $1,000 a month, and you probably can. It would be best to have about 1,500 a month from interest. This way your principle grows faster than inflation, and you can keep ahead of the curve. Alternatively just a little bit coming in each year from paid work can really help add back to the principle.
> 
> Just 1,000 a year in paid work is the equivalent of having an additional 20,000 invested (at 5%) if you can pick up enough piece work to make even 5,000 a year, that's like having an additional 100,000 in the bank. Which would allow your principle to grow faster than inflation (this is the real key).


Great point


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Eric,
I was just poking around sailboatlistings.com-fla. There are a sh!tload of boats for under 40 G's. The 1967 soverel for $8,000, and 1976 down east for 30 something. check it out dude. You can jump start your dream if you buy here and your a few day's sail from the Carib.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

eric-the-red said:


> Entry fees? Departure fees? Good lord, everyone needs a piece of you don't they?
> 
> I'm really starting to think I should follow you around for a few months!


Again, if you stay in the Caribbean it's quite cheap to clear in a d out of most countries. And it's well known which are the expensive ones! Just look on noonsite.com it has all fees listed.

The Bahamas is the only expensive country at $300 to clear in, but that's for months and its cheap to stay there.

St Martin Dutch side is $25 aprox to clear in and no anchoring fee unless in the lagoon, and there is $20 per week.
French side of St Martin is where local knowledge comes in... Entry 25Euro plus 25 euro per night to anchor! BUT if you clear in at Port Royal, about 300 meter walk away, it's only 7euro and free anchorage!

Antigua is the same... Clear in in English Harbour and pay a National Park fee to anchor, but clear in in Jolly Harbour then it's free to anchor in English Harbour!

So don't worry about clearance fees in the Caribbean.

Remember this whole idea is good for this one area. Don't get the idea it's the same in the Pacific, or the Med.


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## MnLandLoc (Nov 8, 2012)

Minnewaska said:


> Glad to hear you're feeling good about it all.
> 
> However, you're now going to make $15k on $200k per year, which is 7.5%? Ask him to give you an example of one taxable bond that yields 5-6% these days, particularly after his fee. The risk free 5 year treasury rate is about three quarters of one percent. The only way you can increase yield is to buy lower credit quality or extend maturity. The former means you may not get your principal back if the issuer bankrupts. AAA rated bonds are currently paying in the mid 3% range. Locking in for longer terms means you will still be getting those yields, when the rest of the world starts getting much more and inflation is ramping up prices.
> 
> Just be smart with your money. The choice is yours.


Sailing newbie here - but I am not investment newbie. Great discussion and I am learning some things as I plan for my early retirement. I agree with Minnewaska -- I have never heard of a conservative investment strategy that is making 5-6% in the current market. Also make sure you understand what fees your investments will be paying.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

eric-the-red said:


> So, that's the plan so far. What do you think?


Eric, this is most well thought plan I have seen lately. I have no doubt you will be fine with your background and determination.

All the best.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> No right or wrong. We could probably give it all up and make do from here out. However, our kids would pay too. We are fortunate enough to fund their (very expensive) educations and other things they can't do for themselves yet. If we keep going (and make it), we will have a very comfortable retirement. I get the thought of potentially dropping dead and missing out. That's a risk for sure.
> 
> However, we spend as much time aboard for 7 months as humanly possible and will try to get a week or two in the Caribbean this winter. This only works because we are working. In the end, we spend probably 90 days aboard each year, while working. Its pretty close.
> *
> ...


This is a sound approach for me or us (me and wifey). We finished paying the kids college and getting them their cars, they both landed on a great career job right after their graduation. I thought we were done until my daughter decided to go to the med school this year, so now we have 4 more years to go before I am free.

I don't know if I can sail or stay in paradise non-stop for years and years. I will get bored on the boat. Both my wife and I have a good career and enjoy our work. I think sailing 70% and work 30% will be a good compromise. Therefore, whenever or wherever I want to come home, I will just haul out the boat and fly home to work for a few months and then go back to sailing. I guess I can do this until I die.


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## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

scratchee said:


> This thread is not nearly as entertaining as the ones for people who have no chance in hell of pulling this off.


Now that's funny.


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## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

ltgoshen said:


> Who do you bank with?? You might want to shop around some. Just saying. this is my rate of return in a low to Mod investment 401-k nothing risky. Its not earning as well as mi wifes.
> 
> 3 Months-- YTD-- 1 Year --3 Years --5 Years--- 10
> 3.89% --11.38% --9.20% ---9.84% ----2.10% -- 5.47%


I'm not quite sure what your point is? My financial advisor is saying 5-6% returns and your 10 year returns are 5.5%. Oops. Now I see. You were replying to someone else and supporting my advisor's assumptions. Thanks.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

I couldn't wait till 60 or 65 because my dad died then of a heart attack. In fact all men on both sides of the family die early.

So I retired at 48.

Am I regretting the 10 years less money? Nope!


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## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

Capt.aaron said:


> Eric,
> I was just poking around sailboatlistings.com-fla. There are a sh!tload of boats for under 40 G's. The 1967 soverel for $8,000, and 1976 down east for 30 something. check it out dude. You can jump start your dream if you buy here and your a few day's sail from the Carib.


Thanks Capt. A - Hadn't seen that site and will check it out.

The more I read, the more I think the boat I will buy will be more of a coastal cruiser than a true blue water boat. I'll still look for a sturdy boat w/ a shoal keel and a skeg hung rudder, but I think I'll probably be fine with a 90's Benneteau or Catalina (35-40 ft) for the type of sailing I'll likely do - mostly very patient island hopping in the carrib/mexico - ie, waiting for great weather windows and having a boat that's fast enough to take advantage of them. Doing this for 4-5 years and if I want to go overseas, I'll deal with trading up to a more capable boat. These boats can be had for $50k or less and many have much of the equipment I'm looking for.

will check that site out tonight.

Really appreciate all your input!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

eric-the-red said:


> I'm not quite sure what your point is? My financial advisor is saying 5-6% returns and your 10 year returns are 5.5%. Oops. Now I see. You were replying to someone else and supporting my advisor's assumptions. Thanks.


I have no intention of harping on you. Just be wary than the financial advisory business is loaded with unscrupulous salesman. Be particularly cautious if they are talking you into a life annuity product. They make TONS of money on them and the contracts can be so complicated that your initial returns can evaporate.

If he/she is saying you can buy a current bond yield over 5%, it's has to have a catch. I am sure that the referenced 401k returns were not from currently purchased bonds. Apples and Oranges.

Think of it this way. If you get screwed, your cruising plan is going to be over. Be very very careful.


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## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

Thanks Rock Dawg! It's a work in progress. 

Thanks for your input too Minn! My financial advisor is a pretty trustworthy guy. He also advised against annuities. But the 401k rollover is not an insurance or "sell your 401k" type thing. It's a rollover with govt stipulations for how much I can take out and mandates I take out X amount annually - so it's still technically an "annuity". 

He is saying that taxable bonds (which I wouldn't have to pay taxes on due to low income I'll be earning) and they would get me close to 5% and additional stocks should get me a bit over, of course realizing there are risks to all of it. 

Does that sound right?


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## VallelyJ (Nov 21, 2008)

I haven't read all the responses to your post so pardon me if I'm repeating what's been said. Or maybe I'm contradicting something that's been said, in which case don't pardon me.
I hope you aren't looking at your 401-k/IRA as part of your cruising kitty. If you're worried about turning 50 now, wait till you've turned 65 and haven't saved anything. Don't touch your retirement savings--add to it regularly, even if it's a small amount. Use a fee-only financial advisor. Not somebody who will buy and sell on your behalf and charge you each time he does it. You get better advice that way, for less money, and come out the same in the end. Be diversified. That means mutual funds, not stocks, if you're on a tight budget. And I could be wrong, but I think I recal that you can transfer a 401-k to an IRA without a penalty. Just don't withdraw it.
I hope you've done some shopping at marine supply places. Small stuff costs a lot, and it adds up fast. Likewise marina dock and storage fees should you happen to need to store it for a season. Don't forget to buy tools. And know how to use them.
Get in shape if you aren't already. Sailing can be work, especially single-handing. Haul an anchor up by hand, move from the cockpit to the bow and back before the course changes, loosen a rusted fastenner. Get thin, flexible and reasonably strong. Lots of perfectly good sailors aren't, I know, but I'd bet most of them have bigger budgets than you.
Be mindful of the living space you end up with, and of how tolerant you are for 'camping' vs just living in a tiny house. The more room you have, the fewer things you have to move every time you want to find something, and the fewer times you whack your head or elbow in the process.
Good luck.
John V.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

It's funny the difference between northern sailors and the tropic birds. Sometimes this thread sounds more like something from stocknet.com not sailnet. Northerners are alway's refering to this " season thing" as if there is a sailing season. peh, Eric, you have the money, the training and the attitude. Go get the boat and fill it with some food and sail south dude, it's actually that easy.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

I'm not an investor but according to this site: US Corporate Bonds Indexes - Bloomberg

Investment grade is 3.35% and high yield is 6.9 if I'm reading it right
So a mix could average out to 5 yes?


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## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

Capt.aaron said:


> It's funny the difference between northern sailors and the tropic birds. Sometimes this thread sounds more like something from stocknet.com not sailnet. QUOTE]
> 
> I'll probably get torched for this, but "changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes?"  While I appreciate the financial advice and have learned much from that part of the conversation, I also think that at my age, this may or may not be the last phase of my life, and the odds are it won't be. The fact is, most decisions are reversable to some degree, and I certainly don't think this one is.
> 
> ...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

davidpm said:


> I'm not an investor but according to this site: US Corporate Bonds Indexes - Bloomberg
> 
> Investment grade is 3.35% and high yield is 6.9 if I'm reading it right
> So a mix could average out to 5 yes?


"High yield" is a salesman's term for junk bond, or anything below investment grade. Sophisticated investors in these bonds don't buy them just for a few more percentage points in interest. They buy them with some expectation that the company will perform better in the future and become upgraded. Therefore, the value of the bond itself will go up substantially. The risk is that you lose the principal on any that go the other way. Its a very risky game.

Think about how much of the OPs portfolio would have to be at risk to get the portfolio yield up to 5%.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

eric-the-red said:


> .....He is saying that taxable bonds (which I wouldn't have to pay taxes on due to low income I'll be earning) and they would get me close to 5% and additional stocks should get me a bit over, of course realizing there are risks to all of it.
> 
> Does that sound right?


Theoretically over the long term, but the market is declining right now. If any of your portfolio is in stocks, you will have to be able to spend down principal in the tough years. That makes it exponentially tougher to recover.

Glad to hear your advisor isn't suggesting anything exotic and promising high yields. That said, there just isn't a low risk way to get to 5% either, or every retired person would lock it in right now.

Enjoy the cruise. I just think you are going to have to realize you will spend down your non-401k liquidity and return when your low on funds. Many do it that way and it seems you will get several years of reasonable cruising out of it. Have a great time. You are at a good spot to do that. Unless you want to live the rest of your life without refrigeration, etc, I don't think the math on your significant savings will keep a 35-40 boat running for your statistical lifetime.

With some exceptions (Capt A being the most notable here), most cruisers eventually go home, some even sell the boat and move on after some number of years. Read these:

The INTERVIEW WITH A CRUISER Project

Newly Salted


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## VallelyJ (Nov 21, 2008)

> Sometimes this thread sounds more like something from stocknet.com not sailnet.


I thought the OP was wise to introduce the subject.
When you value self-reliance, as we all do, then you plan for future contingencies. Those include possibility that you'll need something to live on someday besides a youthful spirit and a rich uncle. Having the sense to plan for 20 years ahead makes planning for hours or days ahead come a little more naturally.
JV


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Eric,

I've stayed out of this until now, because I'm not especially financially savvy, nor am I about the cast off my lines for long-term cruising. The most I can say, is that I'm living aboard a 30 footer, and on a tight budget.

Now that the preface is out of the way, here's my opinion:
Go, do it. Just scale back your expectations a little bit. Buy a smaller boat, keep things simple. This will translate into a large initial savings. Instead of betting on 5% growth, revise that to 2-3%, and accept the fact that you will work a little bit at odd jobs each year, while cruising, to supplement your income.

Get some skills.

It _amazes_ some simple stuff that some sailors can't or won't do for themselves, like splicing! I've learned to splice line by watching Youtube videos for free.

Learn to sew, and pick up a used, heavy duty sewing machine. You can do canvas work out of your boat.

Learn marine electrical and plumbing work. Learn how to do brightwork _correctly_. People will gladly pay you to sand, varnish and paint.

Rigging: This is a big one. A lot of people will not go up their mast.

You can parlay these skills in marinas along the US coast to bolster your income, while bouncing back and forth between the islands without worrying about violating foreign labor laws. Best of all, these skills allow you to work on your terms, when you feel like it. The more of these skills you have, the more likely you are to find an odd job when you need it.

In the end though, the most important thing is to GO. You're young, fit and unencumbered by spouse, children and debt. You have some money. I can't see how your conditions could become any more favorable.

No one wants to lay on their deathbed and say _"I was the biggest X-box champion..._ or _"I watched more football on TV than anyone I know!"_

When I give an accounting of myself, I want my list to be amazing.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Capt.aaron said:


> Go get the boat and fill it with some food and sail south dude, it's actually that easy.


Ummmmm it is actually that easy.

I have completed a circumnavigation and still cruising for the next, say, ten years.
I think of all then things that tried to stop me, and that still try to stop me... It's amazing that if I had let just one thing stop me I would have been....stopped!
Even now things come up from home, curve balls, family, etc all try to stop me.

The thing about your financials (and I'm not for the USA so I dunno what this 401 thing is, but it must be like superannuation... Pay into it and get some back when you are about to die) the boat level you are looking at of, say $70,000 is quite a low percentage of your overall wealth. In a worst case scenario of sinking your boat after a triple budget year and swimming back home to a normal job again you still have two thirds of your original wealth! That's great!

At 40 years old, aprox, you can top off retirement savings in 20 years time by going back to work for 5 years.

We are from a generation that has acquired a lot of wealth and we are under a lot of pressure to obtain more and more money for no good reason. We can do a lot with a relative little.

The one thing that sets you apart from most other gunnabees in these type of threads is that you are not starting off broke. You have good assets. You won't be using the whole lot, you will just be using a small portion to really enhance your life.

Finally I disagree with Pardys Go Small, Go Now. I believe in Use Brains to Go as BIG as you can, RIGHT NOW!

Mark


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## Here7ico (Jan 5, 2011)

Hi Eric, i hope to follow your steps in the future, so i aware of what is published in this post.

In the financial area, consider this:

-Fiscal Cliff, rigth now are preparing some changes in the tax area. 
What make sense right now, it may not make sense in six months. If you can, delay few month any financial desicion.
Just wait for the result of the new tax legislation.

-If you are a US Citizen and *resides* in other country, just declare your earning tax and not have to pay unless you earn more than 82k $ per year. I was given this information by the tax assistants working in the embassy in Caracas (Venezuela), but remember you have to declare to IRS *do not stop*.

These are two points that you should take into consideration.

P.D.: My apologies for the poor drafting, do not speak the languaje as i'd like, i use an online translator.

Oscar.


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## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

Here7ico said:


> Hi Eric, i hope to follow your steps in the future, so i aware of what is published in this post.
> 
> In the financial area, consider this:
> 
> ...


Well, I haven't taken any actual steps as of now other than some conversations and some research...we'll see if I have the courage & strength of conviction to make the leap of faith that so many on this forum have taken. It's definitely a big step.


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## tomperanteau (Jun 4, 2009)

Eric, great ideas and great attitude. It's really none of my business why you want to head out, so I won't really respond to that. Your investments are also yours, so I'm sure you know what you're doing there. You're a grown man and know what you want to do.

Sounds like you have a great plan! I've known several that have sailed out in the past few years with close to nothing, and they're sailing just fine. They took their skills with them and they barter/work along the way. They are having a great life. With that, I suspect that you will do just fine as long as the dollar holds its value and the government has not absconded with our retirement accounts.

Good luck to you and keep us all posted. If I'm still in southern California, give us a shout when you sail by.


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## eric-the-red (Nov 11, 2012)

tomperanteau said:


> Eric, great ideas and great attitude. It's really none of my business why you want to head out, so I won't really respond to that. Your investments are also yours, so I'm sure you know what you're doing there. You're a grown man and know what you want to do.
> 
> Sounds like you have a great plan! I've known several that have sailed out in the past few years with close to nothing, and they're sailing just fine. They took their skills with them and they barter/work along the way. They are having a great life. With that, I suspect that you will do just fine as long as the dollar holds its value and the government has not absconded with our retirement accounts.
> 
> Good luck to you and keep us all posted. If I'm still in southern California, give us a shout when you sail by.


Thanks! It's very motivating to hear others are doing it with less...I surely know there are many doing it with more!


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