# Getting the MOJO back



## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

Hello all,
I haven't posted here in about 6 years and my Etap 26 has been on the hard for 10 years now. First it was bad luck, a serious problem with the hull and keel, prostate cancer, hired a guy to put the boat back together and his wife gets killed in a head-on collision. Paint remover for fiberglass destroys the gel coat on the coach roof. We break the keel putting it back on right before hurricane Sandy lays waste to the marina. My job takes me all over the country and every time I mention boat my wife goes ballistic telling me how much I've spent and totally beating the joy out of it.

Finally brought the boat home to my daughters back yard 3 years ago but working on it seems hopeless. However my 16 year old grandson has given me a new sense of sailing purpose. We have even been out my sailing dinghy as his home is on a lake. Maybe this is the year we get the boat back in the water. Still fighting bad luck. I peeled the gelcoat off the bottom and started coating the bottom with watertite epoxy and after sitting 4 years it is all blistered to hell! So we are doing it again. Does unopened bottom coatings go bad because I have about 7 gallons of expensive stuff that has been sitting for years? Soon will find out.

So I guess I'll start posting again to see if I can get into sailing again.

Gary H. Lucas


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

GaryHLucas said:


> Hello all,
> I haven't posted here in about 6 years and my Etap 26 has been on the hard for 10 years now. First it was bad luck, a serious problem with the hull and keel, prostate cancer, hired a guy to put the boat back together and his wife gets killed in a head-on collision. Paint remover for fiberglass destroys the gel coat on the coach roof. We break the keel putting it back on right before hurricane Sandy lays waste to the marina. My job takes me all over the country and every time I mention boat my wife goes ballistic telling me how much I've spent and totally beating the joy out of it.
> 
> Finally brought the boat home to my daughters back yard 3 years ago but working on it seems hopeless. However my 16 year old grandson has given me a new sense of sailing purpose. We have even been out my sailing dinghy as his home is on a lake. Maybe this is the year we get the boat back in the water. Still fighting bad luck. I peeled the gelcoat off the bottom and started coating the bottom with watertite epoxy and after sitting 4 years it is all blistered to hell! So we are doing it again. Does unopened bottom coatings go bad because I have about 7 gallons of expensive stuff that has been sitting for years? Soon will find out.
> ...


Hi Gary, welcome back! Funny coincidence, I stumbled across one of your old messages a couple days ago and, realizing how long it has been, became concerned about you. I appreciate how you came to our Sailnet preseason get-together at my boat club 9(!) years ago.

Whether it's your dinghy on the lake or your endless restoration on your Etap 26, it's all good, and I hope you stick around here and fill us in on how it's going.


----------



## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

Welcome back! I hope things start going better with the boat. My read on aged epoxy is that is is likely to be fine. If anything, maybe the hardener will be an issue. I would, at least, test it somewhere. There is probably someone with more experience than I.


----------



## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

Part of the issue has been other interests. Five years ago my grandson expressed an interest in building a robot. I said you need the right tools for that and instead we built a CNC Mill, Lathe, 3D printer machine. One day he came home all excited about a product we could make, Fidgit Spinners, right when they were taking off. He wrote a program to cut them from cutting boards he got at Walmart sourced bearings on Ebay and started selling them to his friends. But he decided he didn't actually have enough friends, so he hired a popular kid as his sales manager on commission. Things took off and then he got busted for what the idiot principal called 'Profiteering', probably because he couldn't spell Entrepreneur and gave him 2 days detention. He did make over $300 anyway.

Then he got interested in metal casting. My high school mechanical drafting teacher passed away after being good friends with me for 30 years and his wife gave my grandson a complete foundry setup. We've been casting aluminum using the lost foam process. 

He joined the FIRST Robotics team in school, and I joined as a mentor. The mentor who had been machining parts for the team, and another mentor for the design team both left at the same time. So for the past two seasons I did all the parts machining for them. I also got them a donation of about $7,000 worth of used aluminum extrusions and we are building a big CNC Router for the team, using a bunch of casting I made. I also got them a donation of pallet racks, a large rolling workstation, and another mentor and I lead the renovation of the big closet so we could have 5 rolling workstations and the CNC Router in there.

Oh, and back in October I got fired from my job as chief engineer for a small waste water treatment plant manufacturer after 6 years. Tons of hours and travel and the company slacker texted part of a conversation making me look bad, and the owner took his side instead of finding out the whole truth. I made the mistake of going ballistic on the boss not the slacker. Or maybe not. Found a new job that is 15 minutes from where I keep the boat. I was working sixty hour weeks and traveling every week for the past 16 years, and often working weekends and holidays. Now I work 37.5 hours a week, no travel, no night calls and while my pay dropped a little my expenses dropped a lot. Since I designed every product my former employer makes I also get royalties on EVERYTHING they sell for two more years, so I wish them tons of good luck!

Maybe its time to go sailing.


----------



## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

The years go by, it is now almost two years later. We launched the boat last season finally in the end of AUGUST! First sail September 1st. It was a battle of epic proportions. First we had to peel the entire bottom and put 4 new layers of epoxy and fiberglass on to fix the blisters everywhere. Tough job and my then 17 year old grandson helped me the whole time. Also had to reseal and recaulk the hull to deck joint, which cured the water leaks. Then I rented a U-haul and a car trailer and moved the 26' boat on it's cradle 45 miles to the marina. We had a heck of a time getting the retractable keel back on without breaking it, like I did the last time I tried. My grandson and I pulled the mast up ourselves using a bipod frame and a hand cable winch. For the topping lift! Had to go aloft on the bosuns chair and install it. Both jib sheets broke. The roller furling line parted. All new lines now.

The diesel wouldn't start, injector pump and injector problems. I sent them out for rebuilding and bought a trolling motor to get us in and out of the marina. The batteries were old and toasted so new batteries. Then the batteries went dead. Turns out the portable battery charger had died with the charge light still on. Got a new charger and the connection in the middle of the long shore power cord fell in the water and burned up the ends on both cords. I bought a 1000 watt inverter/charger and installed a 700 watt microwave. Couldn't get the inverter/charger to supply power or charge. Returned it and got another, and it did the same thing. Got a different 1500 watt inverter before discovering that in the last page of the manual it mentions you have to have DC power to get shore power through the unit. I didn't have the battery connected! Got the 1500 watt installed before I realized it had one digit different in the part number and had no charger! 
Totally disgusted with the diesel and power situation I got two 315 watt commercial solar panels from my brother-in-law that installs them. I made stainless brackets and beefed up the bimini frame that I had no canvas for anyway. I added a bluetooth enabled MPPT controller and we have enough solar to run the trolling motor all day without discharging the battery! 2 knots on flat water.

The depth sounder and knot meter died. We ran aground and pulled the 3/4" nylon anchor rope in half kedging off by pulling by hand. It broke a second time and we nearly lost the anchor but my grandson was in the water and caught the end fixed to the anchor. Got a new 300' anchor line with a pre-spliced eye. It came on a reel and I was flaking it into the locker when I found the cut almost through at 120' from the anchor! I now have a short bay rode and a second one to add on. The rubber gasket around the saildrive started leaking so I slopped some 5200 on it finish the season.

The plan was too launch early this year after putting the new seal on the saildrive. The saildrive has other plans. You are supposed to just unbolt everything and pull it back 30 millimeters to separate the spline that goes into the motor. It comes back stretchy about 3/8" of an inch and wobbles all over. But two pry bars and it isn't coming out! I suspect the splined shaft passes through a flexible shaft couple and the back end has rusted. We cut the seal to get enough room to move it back so there is no going back, a big hole in the bottom. I am probably going to have to split the engine to saildrive adapter and then weld it back together. It's coming out one way or another and we may use the trolling motor all season, or the 7.5hp outboard on a new sliding motor mount I have almost finished. At least the drinks are cold, the solar panels run the new 2.6 cu.ft refrigerator just fine. I also got a new Garmin Echomap and installed it where the depth sounder was. I machined a mount for the sounder that installed in the hole that held the knotmeter. Does this damn boat know I can do all this stuff and is just testing me?

The grandson is now 18. He worked as my assistant at the new job during the summers building automation projects. He graduated high school this past summer. He started NJIT in the fall, as a JUNIOR! I was worried he'd struggle, he made deans list. He also has a job at Target on the weekends. He wrote his resume and a cover letter and just got a paid internship at an international civil engineering firm for the summer. They also asked him to work one day a week until then. He, his mom, and his girlfriend all got their boating licenses this winter.

One last thing. I left that job two weeks ago myself. I have a new job with a short drive to work and doing the kind of work I really love, for more money. Time to go sailing!


----------



## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Man get rid of that boat! If you want to sail get a boat that that can be sailed. If you want a project that you don't really want to do, well keep it.


----------



## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

GaryHLucas said:


> The batteries were old and toasted so new batteries. Then the batteries went dead. Turns out the portable battery charger had died with the charge light still on. Got a new charger and the connection in the middle of the long shore power cord fell in the water and burned up the ends on both cords. I bought a 1000 watt inverter/charger and installed a 700 watt microwave. Couldn't get the inverter/charger to supply power or charge. Returned it and got another, and it did the same thing. Got a different 1500 watt inverter before discovering that in the last page of the manual it mentions you have to have DC power to get shore power through the unit. I didn't have the battery connected! Got the 1500 watt installed before I realized it had one digit different in the part number and had no charger!


Uh....where did you think the inverter would get it's power from if not from the batteries??

Please please spend a little more time educating yourself on electrical systems before diving into projects like that! 

There are plenty of knowledgeable people on this forum that can help you, all you have to do is ask.

Sent from my SM-G981W using Tapatalk


----------



## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

I am one of the knowledgeable people on the forum with respect to electrical. I was an electrical contractor in my first career and managed 18 electricians. I do automation projects for a living. 50 years of experience. Simple stuff like in the pictures.


----------



## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

GaryHLucas said:


> I am one of the knowledgeable people on the forum with respect to electrical. I was an electrical contractor in my first career and managed 18 electricians. I do automation projects for a living. 50 years of experience. Simple stuff like in the pictures.
> View attachment 143382
> 
> View attachment 143383
> ...


Ok, so you just aren't good at reading the manual then! 

Sent from my SM-G981W using Tapatalk


----------



## AWT2_Sail (Oct 12, 2021)

SchockT said:


> Ok, so you just aren't good at reading the manual then!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G981W using Tapatalk


----------



## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I am having flashbacks to other forums, other threads, and other posters


----------



## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

SchockT said:


> Uh....where did you think the inverter would get it's power from if not from the batteries??....Ok, so you just aren't good at reading the manual then!


Condescending a bit much??? A gentler touch would encourage him to stick around a little longer this time. Plus, your own reading comprehension could use a little improvement. Gary has a charger/inverter, not just an inverter. And it's natural to think that a charger/inverter would get its power from the 120VAC power input and pass it through to the 120v outlets.

My own Magnum 1000 charger/inverter has the same problem that Gary described. It turns out that it inserts itself between the shore power inlet and all of the 120v outlets. If you disconnect your 12v batteries (as many of us do while on the hard over the winter) and then later plug in your shore power to do some work while on the boat, your 120v outlets don't work. This is NOT intuitive, and it was NOT documented in my instruction manual:


> The MMS Series features an automatic transfer relay and an internal
> battery charger when operating in Standby Mode. Standby Mode
> begins whenever AC power (shore power or generator) is connected
> to the inverter’s AC input. Once the AC voltage and frequency of the
> ...


It says NOTHING about requiring the battery to be connected for Standby Mode to activate the transfer relay.

I called Magnum to tell them my product was defective, and they explained the issue and said, "Oh yeah, we recently updated our manual to point that out." It sounds like Gary's product had a similar problem, and his dealer didn't recognize the design deficiency.


----------



## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

TakeFive said:


> Condescending a but much??? A gentler touch would encourage him to stick around a little longer this time. Plus, your own reading comprehension could use a little improvement. Gary has a charger/inverter, not just an inverter. And it's natural to think that a charger/inverter would get its power from the 120VAC power input and pass it through to the 120v outlets.
> 
> My own Magnum 1000 charger/inverter has the same problem that Gary described. It turns out that it inserts itself between the shore power inlet and all of the 120v outlets. If you disconnect your 12v batteries (as many of us do while on the hard over the winter) and then later plug in your shore power to do some work while on the boat, your 120v outlets don't work. This is NOT intuitive, and it was NOT documented in my instruction manual:
> 
> ...


He said he "Couldn't get the inverter/charger to supply power or charge", and then later said he hadn't connected the batteries! He did NOT say that he could not get the shore power pass through function to work.

You are right, I misinterpreted what he said. I also leapt to the conclusion that he didn't know what he was doing because he returned the unit not once but TWICE because he could not get it to work when the installation was not even complete.

He has since set me straight and shown that he has an electrical background and should be more than capable of installing the unit. Apparently his only mistake was not reading the manual carefully, and perhaps not thinking it through enough before jumping to the conclusion that the unit was defective.

I wouldn't characterize it as a design deficiency that an inverter/charger control board would get it's power from the DC side of the system. That is only logical. The unit's primary function is to convert DC power into AC power and it needs to operate in the absence of AC input. 

My apologies to Gary for assuming he didn't know what he was doing when in fact he was just having a brain-fart moment! (And publicly confessing it too!)


Sent from my SM-G981W using Tapatalk


----------



## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

Gary- thanks fo the engineering porn! Great story, and following the progress of your grandson is just as entertaining as the boat stuff!


----------



## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

My reading is pretty good. That electrical panel required reading the 300 to 600 page manuals for all the equipment in there. However you are never so good you can’t miss some little detail, especially when it is not where you might expect to find it.

So let me explain how the inverter with a transfer switch works. I had expected that the transfer switch was nothing more than a relay and when you have shore power it is de-energized and you are on shore power. That isn’t how it works and there is a good reason for it.

Shore power comes aboard with 3 wires, hot, neutral and ground. The only place the neutral and ground are tied together is all the way back at the main service of the marina, not even in subpanels! If they are tied together any place else some of the neutral current will always flow on the ground wire too. This would be very dangerous and can cause fires too.

Essentially the inverter is a new service. So for safety the neutral and ground must be tied together at the inverter output. So when running on the inverter you must break the ground connection to shore power or you will have power traveling back on the ground and your inverter could electrocute someone on shore. So there are actually 2 relays energized by the batteries. One for shore power one for inverter. Redundancy for safety.

As far as skills go. I just finished a success story article for Automation Direct on a control upgrade to a plastic extrusion line. I have one in the works for Good Old Boat called “CNC and the good old boat” and another for Home Shop Machinist on my home built CNC mill/lathe that I call the ‘Ifactory’


----------



## redgar (8 mo ago)

GaryHLucas said:


> The years go by, it is now almost two years later. We launched the boat last season finally in the end of AUGUST! First sail September 1st. It was a battle of epic proportions. First we had to [ ... ] my then [16,] 17 [,18] year old grandson helped me the whole time. [ ... ]
> 
> Does this damn boat know I can do all this stuff and is just testing me? [Absolutely! ;-)]
> 
> ...


Excellent story of perseverance and success -- both with the boat and your grandson. Well done, sir! 

BTW, perhaps in a more appropriate place, I'd love to hear more about your CNC machine and robot building experiences. Years ago, I (a long, long time ago past president of the Dallas Personal Robotics Group) and a buddy built one for making robot parts. It was so much fun! I've thought about the possibilities of having a little CNC machine on a larger sailboat some day. It could be very handy for making those hard to get parts and helping others repair things in far away places. Building a boat and properly raising grandkids are some of my most important projects these days... 

Thank you for sharing.

--
Red


----------

