# Tri-color Steaming masthead light as only nav light?



## Perithead

I want to replace my6 navigation lights with some LED nav lights. I have read where people have bought a tri-color steaming light(I think thats right) and it mounts at the top of the mast. 

Since it has both red and green lights and a white bulb, I was curious if it is legal to only have that one light for all of your nightime needs underway/at anchor. 

I think this would be the best way to go LED if you can use that one light for everything. So can I?


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## JohnRPollard

Perithead said:


> I want to replace my6 navigation lights with some LED nav lights. I have read where people have bought a tri-color steaming light(I think thats right) and it mounts at the top of the mast.
> 
> Since it has both red and green lights and a white bulb, I was curious if it is legal to only have that one light for all of your nightime needs underway/at anchor.
> 
> I think this would be the best way to go LED if you can use that one light for everything. So can I?


Perithead, If you were only going to sail at night, it would be legal to only have the tri-color light. But the tri-color will not satisfy your anchor-light requirements, nor will it satisfy the requirements for operating under power at night.

So the answer to your question "I was curious if it is legal to only have that one light for all of your nightime needs underway/at anchor?", as SailingDog emphatically indicates later in this thread, is "NO."

Also, even if you were only going to sail at night, most folks who install a mast-head tri-color retain their deck level running lights for coastal and near shore sailing, because the tri-color light at the top of your mast is difficult to see at close range and when competing with other lights such as background shore-clutter.

Also, you MAY NOT legally use both the masthead tri-color and the deck level lights simultaneously. You must choose one or the other based on the sailing conditions or circumstances.

However, another option is to install an all-round "red-over-green" mast head light in lieu of the tri-color. This light can be used simultaneously with the deck level lights, but not while steaming.


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## Perithead

Thanks John for the quick reply.

Well the bowrail lights were stolen off of my boat and I am thinking that if I buy LED bow lights then they would be at a greater risk of being stolen due to their high price. So if I think I will go for just the mast-head tri-color light for that reason. 

Since this light does have three different colors will I need to switch the red and green lights off when I am at anchor? If so then would that mean that the light isnt wired up the same way as a normal light? Becuase I would think I would have to have some specail way to switch them off. Or, can I just leave the red and green on when I am at anchor?

Thanks again.


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## sailortjk1

John has answered your question, I will tell you that I have come up on a vessel in a congested water way and never saw him (untill I saw the shadow of his hull) because he was displaying the tri-colored mast head lights. When in shore, most of us are looking at deck level. you don't look up thirty, forty, fifty feet in the air when looking for traffic in harbors or near shore.


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## Plumper

Rule 25 of the International Regulations for the Prvention of Collisions at Sea covers this question. Here is a link:
http://www.sailtrain.co.uk/Irpcs/rule25.htm

Gaz


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## JohnRPollard

Perithead said:


> Since this light does have three different colors will I need to switch the red and green lights off when I am at anchor? If so then would that mean that the light isnt wired up the same way as a normal light? Becuase I would think I would have to have some specail way to switch them off. Or, can I just leave the red and green on when I am at anchor?
> 
> Thanks again.


Perithead,

If you get a tri-color light, you should get the version which also incorporates an anchor light above the tricolor running light. If you only get the tri-color running light arrangement, you will turn all three lights (red-port, green-starboard, white-stern) on and off with one switch. 
You cannot legally re-wire it to have it double as an anchor light, since the stern white light cannot be seen from 360 degrees.


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## Perithead

So, if I had them all wired to one switch then would I still be legal at anchor?


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## SVAuspicious

You can get a tri-color with anchor light in one assembly. They are two, stacked units in one. There are two-wire versions (they reverse polarity to select the anchor light or the tri-color) and three-wire versions (which usually use two separate switchs).

Note that the tri-color is only legal when you are under sail. When powering, you must use deck-level lights and your steaming light (part-way up the mast).


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## PBzeer

Was going to mention what Auspicious did, while noting LED deck level nav lights aren't really necessary since you'll be under power when using them anyway.


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## Plumper

I don't see anywhere in the Collision Regulations that stipulates that the lights have to be at deck level when under power. Rule 23 refers:
http://www.sailtrain.co.uk/Irpcs/rule23.htm
There may be local rules or inland rules, but the International ColRegs normally trump everything but Inland rules, or every vessel would have to have different light setup for different countries.

Gaz


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## PBzeer

I find that when I'm in an area where deck level lights are more visable, I am almost always under power. Otherwise, I use the tri-color, even if motor-sailing. For myself, I choose the light best suited for the situation. For instance, when I came into Tampa Bay under sail, I was using the tri-color, but when I heard a tug coming up from the rear, I also turned on the deck level lights to make sure they saw me.


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## TSOJOURNER

The aquasignal 10 Watt (all you really need) fixtures are really cheap and don't draw much power. I can't see why anyone would steal those. As stated already, you can't JUST have a tricolor for all practical purposes, unless you only plan on sailing at night. I also second the comment that tricolors are difficult to see against a coastal backdrop and in close proximity. If you really don't like the hassle of figuring out what lights you should have on, there is a rotary switch available:











> I don't see anywhere in the Collision Regulations that stipulates that the lights have to be at deck level when under power.


But the steaming light is required, and does have to be above the level of the running lights.. kinda hard to satisfy that requirement with a tricolor


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## TSOJOURNER

PBzeer said:


> I find that when I'm in an area where deck level lights are more visable, I am almost always under power. Otherwise, I use the tri-color, even if motor-sailing.


 not legal


> For myself, I choose


no.. you don't choose, you follow well established rules


> the light best suited for the situation. For instance, when I came into Tampa Bay under sail, I was using the tri-color, but when I heard a tug coming up from the rear, I also turned on the deck level lights to make sure they saw me.


 So the tug captain saw *TWO *boats where there should only have been *ONE*. Not only that, now the range of the first boat he saw just changed.. You created confusion (at best annoyance) on his bridge. Never never never run your tricolor and deck lights, or anchor and tricolor, or anchor and deck lights at the same time. Not only is it not legit, but it is dangerous. I have served aboard ships and on the bridge at night.. If everyone follows the same set of rules accidents are far less likely.

I have seen enough messed up light configurations to consider it more of a pandemic problem than a minor issue or annoyance. This is important stuff, potentially life or death.. you don't see airplanes or cars inventing ways to light themselves as they see fit? You don't see radio stations deciding to use blue instead of red for antenna farms? no?
The one and only light on this fine skiff:









I apologize for the beating..


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## Plumper

The rule doesn't state that the steaming light has to be above the sidelights although that makes sense. On most small boats the verticle difference is very little, in fact many combine the steaming light and overtaking light into one all round white light normally carried aft (if they are under 12m). That all round white light could also double as the anchor light.

As for what is best seen by other boats, Small low boats on calm days see lower lights but ships see the higher ones. I was once called by a ship while enroute to Hawaii on a sailboat. They told me that the only light they could see was the all round red over green at the mast head. (all round red over green, sailing at night). The lower running lights were obscured by the sail and sea because of the heel of the boat and the sea state.
My vote is for bright lights as high as practicable. Keeps the glare away from you and puts the lights in the face of big ships.

Gaz
PS Good on ya Sailboy. You are absolutely correct.


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## US27inKS

I would discourage anyone from having the masthead tricolor as their only light. I almost hit another guy from our club that was running a tricolor on a moonless night. Even after I passed him and knew exactly where he was, he quickly disappeared again.

I'm sure a tricolor is a great thing in the open water where the deck level may be below the waves, but in confined waters I would pass.


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## TSOJOURNER

Plumper said:


> The rule doesn't state that the steaming light has to be above the sidelights although that makes sense.


Just to flesh things out a little (Inland Rules):
33 CFR 84
(g) The sidelights of a power-driven vessel shall be placed at a
height above the hull not greater than three quarters of that of the for-
ward masthead light. They shall not be so low as to be interfered with
by deck lights.

(d) The masthead light, or the all-round light described in Rule
23(c), of a power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length shall
be carried *at least one meter higher* than the sidelights.

Definitions:
(a) "Masthead light" means a white light placed over the fore and
aft centerline of the vessel showing an unbroken light over an arc of
the horizon of 225 degrees and so fixed as to show the light from
right ahead to 22.5 degrees abaft the beam on either side of the ves-
sel.
(b) "Sidelights" means a green light on the starboard side and a red
light on the port side each showing an unbroken light over an arc of
the horizon of 112.5 degrees and so fixed as to show the light from
right ahead to 22.5 degrees abaft the beam on its respective side. In
a vessel of less than 20 meters in length the sidelights may be com-
bined in one lantern carried on the fore and aft centerline of the ves-
sel.


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## Perithead

Well, alot of mixed opinions I guess. But I am still not sure what to do.

What I understand to be correct, would be just to get a Masthead light to shine towards the back of the boat, and just get the red/green bow lights?


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## Plumper

You are right. I stand corrected, the steaming light or all round light must be one metre above the sidelights.

Sorry.

Gaz


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## Plumper

Perithead,


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## Plumper

Perithead,
You should just read the rules. They are clear and you may learn what other boats show which is probably more important.

Gaz


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## SVAuspicious

Sailboy beat me to the specifications.

For completeness (cite http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule25.htm ):



> (b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 meters in length the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen.


Also, note that when motor-sailing you are NOT a sailboat, you are a power boat and must comply with those requirements, i.e. you may not combine a tri-color with a steaming light since the tri-color is allowed only for sailboats.

My lights: deck level side-lights and stern light (which I generally use inshore and always when under power, then in combination with my) steaming light (also called a masthead light even though it is at the second spreaders), tri-color (which I generally use offshore), and anchor light (which I use at anchor).


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## PBzeer

sailboy - I do follow the rules, EXCEPT, when common sense dictates otherwise. In the instance I cited, IF, the tug saw the tri-color, and then saw lights come on beneath it, it should have caused no confusion. On the other hand, if he didn't see the tri-color, I made myself visable. That to me, is simple common sense.


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## billyruffn

PBzer,

Common sense dictates that everyone follow the rules. If everyone follows the rules it's easier for everyone to know what to expect when they see a set of lights. If you want to make sure the tug sees you, you are allowed to shine a white light on your hull, sails, rigging to increase your visibility. You can turn on all your cabin lights and any deck illumination you may have. You can call them on the radio (tugs usually monitor 13 in addition to 16). You may sound the danger signal (5 blasts on your horn). You may not turn on navigation lights other than the ones you are required to be showing under the circumstances -- it can only cause confusion. If you do as you indicated and the tug hits you, you may find yourself at fault or sharing the liability for the accident to say nothing of what just happened to your boat and crew.

Here's the source of confusion: 

Assume the tug is overtaking. With your deck nav lights on he sees only your stern light. Seeing only a white light he's not yet sure what he's facing, but could be a stern light and he's overtaking, so he's particularily careful as he approaches the white light. You then turn on your mast head. Now he sees two white lights, one over the other. Ah ha, he says to himself - what I'm seeing is a big boat a long way away. I can see his range lights, but can't yet see his red/green nav lights. No need to slow down just yet. He sticks his head in his radar looking for the big contact with the hull down several miles distant and he doesn't see you, a small sailboat, because you don't show up very well and he's not looking for something just ahead of him because the reasonable conclusion from the lights presented is not a small boat dead ahead. Bang.

Assume he's not overtaking but approaching from somewhere forward of the beam. He sees your deck nav lights and he knows what he's looking at. You turn on the tri-color and now he sees two sail boats. You said he sees "the tricolor come on above the deck lights" -- two assumptions are being made: one that he actually is looking at you when the second lights come on and two that he has good depth perception (ie that he can discern that the lights are in fact close to one another. I don't think either is a safe assumption to make. In either case, there's a real possibility he's going to be confused.


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## PBzeer

In a marked channel, under sail, with a larger vessel approaching dead on my rear at a speed faster than mine, I'll use the handiest means available to be certain they see me, as well as making any adjustments to course possible. By the time, in this instance I was able to hail the approaching vessel, their bow was already past my stern about a boat lenght to port. Given that the choice between flipping on one switch and then grabbing the radio, or taking more time consuming action, I would do the same again. I obviously didn't stress the extingency of the situation properly when first mentioning it. With an unidentified vessel overtaking like this, there was not sufficent time to ascertain if it was a commercial vessel or recreational one, nor whether they were up on their COLREGS or not. What I did know was that the best way to be sure of being seen was to hit the deck level nav lights, as the stern light was the brightest, most visable light available at the moment.


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## billyruffn

In the situation you describe, a sweep across his bridge with a powerful hand held light would probably get his attention quicker than another stern light....but....

All that said, a man does what a man has to do! and bloggers shouldn't second guess what anyone has to do when they're in extremis. That's what admiralty courts do. Glad he didn't hit you.


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## Slipkiller2

Perithead,

Not to beat a dead horse but maybe this can help.
http://www.boatingsafety.com/boats/cglights.htm


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## sailingdog

*No, you really can't have the masthead Tricolor/anchor as your only navigation lights. * The COLREGS require that you have a steaming light for when you are under power, and that requires a white light a meter or more above the sidelights--so a tricolor/anchor light wouldn't meet the requirements under power.

Also, from a safety standpoint, deck level lights are far safer and easier to see in a crowded harbor traffic situation. Most small powerboats don't look up high enough to see mast-top mounted navigation lights, and if those are your only lights, you'll be at serious risk of getting hit.

You can get special fasteners that would make removing the deck level fixtures much more difficult. They sell stainless steel "security" screws for just such a purpose. However, you'll probably want to keep the specialized tools you'll need to remove them aboard the boat, so you can work on the lights as necessary. Ideally, you'll want four light fixtures to handly your navigation lighting.

1) Mast top mounted tricolor/anchor light. The new LED-based ones only require two wires for both functions, so this is relatively easy to do and generally doesn't require running more wire, even if you only had an anchor light up there in the first place.

2) Masthead or steaming light, usually about the height of the first spreaders. This is often combined with a foredeck light, for working on the foredeck at night.

3) Bow bicolor deck-level navigation lights

4) White stern light.

In harbor situations, you would use the deck level lights. If motoring in a crowded harbor, you'd also turn on the masthead light.

Out at sea, you'd use the tricolor light if under sail, or the bicolor and the anchor light (provided your boat is small enough) when under power. No stern light would be necessary for boats under 12 meters IIRC, since they're allowed to us an all-around 360 white light for both the steaming light and the stern light.

At anchor, you'd use the anchor light, but might also want to rig a light lower down, to better illuminate your boat in close traffic situations.

This maximizes your visibility in all situations. This also gives you some redundancy, in the case of a nav light fixture being damaged or the LED/bulb failing.



Perithead said:


> I want to replace my6 navigation lights with some LED nav lights. I have read where people have bought a tri-color steaming light(I think thats right) and it mounts at the top of the mast.
> 
> Since it has both red and green lights and a white bulb, I was curious if it is legal to only have that one light for all of your nightime needs underway/at anchor.
> 
> I think this would be the best way to go LED if you can use that one light for everything. So can I?


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## JohnRPollard

Perithead et al, 

My initial post to this thread did not properly answer the question you asked. Instead, I responded to what I thought was your question, i.e. as to whether it was legal for a sailboat to use only a mast-head tri-color light while sailing. My mistake for answering hastily and not taking the time to study your question and consider my reply more carefully.

I have gone back and hopefully clarified my original post to this thread. I didn't want the potentially misleading information to go uncorrected. If anyone feels that my initial post is still misleading, please let me know and I'll make changes as necessary. Thanks to those who pointed out the various nuances, including SailingDog who noted that the correct answer to your initial question is an emphatic "NO."


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## sailingdog

While I would agree that there is never any reason to run with a masttop tricolor and deck level lights, *there are legitimate reasons to run with an anchor light and deck level sidelights. *

From the USCG website:



> RULE 23:
> POWER-DRIVEN VESSELS UNDERWAY
> (a) A power-driven vessel underway shall exhibit (picture):
> 
> a masthead light forward;
> a second masthead light abaft of and higher than the forward one; except that a vessel of less than 50 meters in length shall not be obliged to exhibit such a light but may do so;
> sidelights: and
> a sternlight.
> (b) An air-cushion vessel when operating in nondisplacement mode shall, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit an all-round flashing yellow light, where it can best be seen. [Inld]
> 
> (c) A WIG craft only when taking off, landing and in flight near the surface shall, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit a high intensity all-round flashing red light. [Intl]
> 
> (c/d)
> 
> *A power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights.*
> a power-driven vessel of less than 7 meters in length whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and shall, if practicable, also exhibit sidelights. [Intl]
> the masthead light or all-round white light on a power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may be displaced from the fore and aft centerline of the vessel if centerline fitting is not practicable, provided the sidelights are combined in one lantern which shall be carried on the fore and aft centerline of the vessel or located as nearly as practicable in the same fore and aft line as the masthead light or the all-round white light. [Intl]
> (d) A power-driven vessel when operating on the Great Lakes may carry an all-round white light in lieu of the second masthead light and sternlight prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule. The light shall be carried in the position of the second masthead light and be visible at the same minimum range.


Please note, this clearly states that an all-around white light may be used in place of separate stern and steaming lights on any boat under power that is less than 12 meters long. That would be a legitimate use of an anchor light and deck level side lights. * However, you can not have the stern light lit if you are using the anchor light as a stern light/steaming light replacement. *



> So the tug captain saw TWO boats where there should only have been ONE. Not only that, now the range of the first boat he saw just changed.. You created confusion (at best annoyance) on his bridge. Never never never run your tricolor and deck lights, or anchor and tricolor, or anchor and deck lights at the same time. Not only is it not legit, but it is dangerous. I have served aboard ships and on the bridge at night.. If everyone follows the same set of rules accidents are far less likely.


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## billyruffn

Sailingdog wrote:

In harbor situations, you would use the deck level lights. If motoring in a crowded harbor, you'd also turn on the masthead light.

------

Dog, help me out here. Where in the regs does it say you can run with both deck nav lights and a mast head light? My reading of the regs indicates the use of the mast head lights is for sailing vessels only. If you're motoring your a power vessel.

[Nothing, absolutely nothing beats a good argument about the Rules of the Road -- especially, in the evening after a few glasses of wine (or whatever) ]


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## CharlieCobra

I have a masthead tricolor, standard deck level wing lights, stern light and a 225* masthead steaming light. I need an anchor light though. I suppose I could use the Coleman lantern hung from the backstay insulator in a pinch.


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## TSOJOURNER

This discussion has become fairly lively!
So, how many of you can burn your sidelights independent of stern light?
Anchor light seems to fit the requirements for use under power in lieu of masthead and stern light, but amazingly, in decades of sailing I have never seen that combination used on a sailboat. I have also heard some sailors burn the anchor light offshore, as it is (in some circumstances) easier to see than a tricolor, and a ship traveling at 20-30knots has little concern for your course and speed. I have also heard from sailors who use no lights, and some that use strobes (illegal). Also, some ships on the high seas will not burn ANY lights. My practice is to abide by COLGRES.

In PBZeer's situation, could the anchor light be used to signal intentions? Sending a quick " _ . ." or other appropriate signal a few times in succession seems like it would certainly catch the eye of any mariner, regardless if they were able to decipher the signal or not. Billyruffn gave the "right" answer.. I carry a spotlight with momentary switch in one cockpit locker, and have a little hand held flare of the waterproof variety lashed to the helm whenever I am underway at night. In any event, if you are about to get run down any actions are appropriate that help to avoid a collision.


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## SVAuspicious

I'm with Billyruffn and Sailboy21. The rules are the rules. There is an undertone in some posts that "the rules aren't for me" or "I know better." There are decades (in some cases centuries) of experience captured in those rules that people on the seas count on others complying with. I count on the lights I see at night, inshore or offshore, being rules compliant. If you do something else and I hit you because I made a judgment based on the rules, who is going to be held responsible?

Geez.


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## witzgall

I just installed the orca tri-anchor light on our mast last weekend. It has three wires, and five LEDs. White in all thee sections, and red and blue on the port and starboard. Very nice, but pricey. The hope is that it never will need replacing.
Chris


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## Perithead

Well, I think that Slipkiller may have gave the best link, one that is illistrated and easier to understand than the others.

This is what I believe I am going to need:

Under power-Bow lights, a stern light, and a 225degree mast light
Under sail- Bow lights, and a stern light
At Anchor- an all-around masthead light

If the above assumption is correct then I need to get 2 sperate mast lights? One all around and one just 225 degrees? Can I get this as one light?

Now, I am replacing all of my running lights with new LED lights so I guess I need: bowlights-stern light-mast head light(225 deg)-masthead light(360 deg)


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## sailingdog

Sailboy-

I actually can turn on the bicolor and the stern lights separately.



witzgall said:


> I just installed the orca tri-anchor light on our mast last weekend. It has three wires, and five LEDs. White in all thee sections, and red and blue on the port and starboard. Very nice, but pricey. The hope is that it never will need replacing.
> Chris


Actually, it better have a green LED... not a blue one.


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## Classic30

Perithead said:


> If the above assumption is correct then I need to get 2 sperate mast lights? One all around and one just 225 degrees? Can I get this as one light?


You mean something like this?


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## Perithead

No not exactly, I mean two white lights no colored lights on the mast. From the illistrations it looks like I need one that is visible 360 deg and one that is visible 360 deg. 

No red and green lights on the mast. (since they aren't required)


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## sailingdog

Generally, a steaming light, 225 degree of coverage, is mounted about the height of the first spreaders, and is often combined with a foredeck light, which can be used to illuminate the foredeck when anchoring and such. 

The anchor light will function just fine as an all-around 360-degree white light.


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## Perithead

So that means that I do need both a steaming light and an anchor light?


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## sailingdog

Billyruffn-

By masthead light, I mean the mast mounted steaming light, which is mounted at about the height of the spreaders, not a mast top tricolor or anchor light. *So, motoring in a crowded harbor situation, you'd have the bicolor, the stern light and the required masthead steaming light. *

BTW, the COLREGS clearly state that this is the required light configuration for a motor boat or sailboat under power.


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## sailingdog

It depends.

If you have a stern light and bicolor, you will need a steaming light to be properly setup under COLREGs.

Or, if you have no stern light or have it separately switched from the bicolor, you can use the anchor light when you're motoring and use the stern light and bicolor if you're under sail and need deck-level nav lights.



Perithead said:


> So that means that I do need both a steaming light and an anchor light?


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## Perithead

I believe I understand what you are saying but my question is more specifically asking if I need both a mast-head steaming light (225 deg visibility) and also the mast-head anchor light (360 deg visibility)?


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## artbyjody

Perithead said:


> I believe I understand what you are saying but my question is more specifically asking if I need both a mast-head steaming light (225 deg visibility) and also the mast-head anchor light (360 deg visibility)?


Then you wire it appropriately... its actually that simple...


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## sailingdog

Ideally, yes. It is probably simpler to have the separate masthead steaming light. It also gives you a bit of redundancy in case a light bulb fails. 



Perithead said:


> I believe I understand what you are saying but my question is more specifically asking if I need both a mast-head steaming light (225 deg visibility) and also the mast-head anchor light (360 deg visibility)?


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## Plumper

The anchor light does not have to be at the mast head. A small portable Davis LED with a fresnel lens is cheap and handy. Just hang it where it is visible all round. The less weight and fewer bulbs you have up high the better. Remember that every pound at the top of your mast is like losing 10 pounds off your keel and deck bulbs are easiest for you to change.

Gaz


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## TSOJOURNER

Plumper said:


> The anchor light does not have to be at the mast head. A small portable Davis LED with a fresnel lens is cheap and handy. Just hang it where it is visible all round. The less weight and fewer bulbs you have up high the better. Remember that every pound at the top of your mast is like losing 10 pounds off your keel and deck bulbs are easiest for you to change.
> 
> Gaz


Agree. My first two (of two) keel boats did not come equipped with anchor lights at the masthead. Indeed, I find it preferable to hang a suitable light in the fore triangle. The shadow created by the mast is negligible.. but COLGRES does require a 360 degree arc and 2nm visibility... but nitpicking has its limits even with authority. 
Speaking of which.. I am nearly 100% positive that "USCG approved" lights are not a requirement... The requirements for intensity are clearly stated in COLGRES, however I don't see any requirement that the lights ACTUALLY be tested by the USCG. Is that right?


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## artbyjody

sailboy21 said:


> Agree. My first two (of two) keel boats did not come equipped with anchor lights at the masthead. Indeed, I find it preferable to hang a suitable light in the fore triangle. The shadow created by the mast is negligible.. but COLGRES does require a 360 degree arc and 2nm visibility... but nitpicking has its limits even with authority.
> Speaking of which.. I am nearly 100% positive that "USCG approved" lights are not a requirement... The requirements for intensity are clearly stated in COLGRES, however I don't see any requirement that the lights ACTUALLY be tested by the USCG. Is that right?


You would actually be correct on the latter assumption...however to have a vendor sell as such with the stipulation must meet such requirements - a convenient catch 22..USGC doesn't test but UL and other labs do based on the requirements which allow vendors to add the USGC Approved tag..


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## Plumper

No ship has a true 360 degree anchor light; there is always something that gets in the way. The only time that that is a real problem is when no other lights are on. The anchor light is not intended to give the boat's position but to indicate it is at anchor. The rest of the lights (deck lights, cabin lights, working lights etc) clearly indicate where the boat is. Unfortunately, most sailboats lack the power to have any other lights on. That is where solar garden lights, candles, kerosene lanterns and other forms of light help out. The may be dim but they make the boat easy to see if you happen to be in the blind arc of the anchor light for a couple seconds.

Gaz


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## SimonV

Does this help.
http://uscgboating.org/safety/fedreqs/equ_nav.htm


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## Perithead

Thanks Simon I think positng that made me read that over again and I got one more thing out of it. My boat is less 12 meters so I never had need for a steaming light. 

All it looks like I need now(since I was lazy and didnt convert meters to feet) is a bi-color bow light, stern light, and a anchor light.

Wonderful, sorry I set everyone on a wild-goose-chase-like thread!


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## soulesailor

You DO need a steaming light if you are motoring your boat. Otherwise, nobody will know that you are motoring and not sailing (unless you put your stern light on a seperate switch and turn it off when you motor and then put your all-around anchor light on, but this is an unusual set-up).


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## Plumper

I agree, you do need a steaming light but your anchor light because it covers the arcs of a steaming light and stern light would do the job if you turned your stern light off when under power. That should give you an all round white light (combined stern and steaming light), and running lights.

If done properly that setup could work for a boat under 12 metres.


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## sailingdog

*I'm not quite sure where you're getting the idea that a sailboat under 12 meters doesn't require a steaming light for use when motoring. *A sailboat clearly does require either an *all-around white light and NO stern light,* or a* steaming light and stern light* when motoring.

You're missed the point almost everyone on this thread has made*. YOU DO NEED A STEAMING LIGHT if you ever move your boat under engine power. *



Perithead said:


> Thanks Simon I think positng that made me read that over again and I got one more thing out of it. My boat is less 12 meters so I never had need for a steaming light.
> 
> All it looks like I need now(since I was lazy and didnt convert meters to feet) is a bi-color bow light, stern light, and a anchor light.
> 
> Wonderful, sorry I set everyone on a wild-goose-chase-like thread!


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## Freesail99

This may help.


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## sailingdog

Please note that by MASTHEAD light, in Freesail's image, they mean a steaming light.


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## TSOJOURNER

Masthead is the proper term according to COLGRES and freesails image.
Maybe.. instead of looking at rule books it would be better for those trying to properly place their lights to simply copy exactly what every other reasonably well found sailboat in their marina has  
The absolute minimum I have ever seen a sailboat from the factory come with is: sidelights, stern light and masthead (225 degree "steaming") light.. everything else (tricolor, red over green) is optional.


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## sailingdog

Sailboy-

Most boats also have an anchor light... which really isn't optional. The Tricolor is definitely optional, as are the red over green lights.


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## knuterikt

Hi
When figuring out correct lights to show under different circumstances one must read the complete set of rules. 
Part C - Lights and Shapes; 
·	Rule 20 Definitions
·	Rule 23 for power-driven vessels (also sailboats using engine) 
·	Rule 25 Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars
·	Rule 30 Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars
Are the rules describing the lights our boats would normally show.

In rule 20 section (e) you can read this "The lights and shapes specified in these Rules shall comply with the provisions of Annex I"

Annex I give a detailed description of how lights should be placed in relation to each other and other technical information.

In annex I.2 you can read this

The masthead light of a power-driven vessel of 12 meters but less than 20 meters in length shall be placed at a height above the gunwale of not less than 2.5 meters.

A power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may carry the uppermost light at a height of less than 2.5 meters above the gunwale. When, however, a masthead light is carried in addition to sidelights and a sternlight or the all-round light prescribed in rule 23(d)(i) is carried in addition to sidelights, then such masthead light or allround light shall be carried at least 1 meter higher than the sidelights.

This is a useful link (especially for you from US as it also gives your inland rules).
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm


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## sailingdog

knuterikt-

I believe that link has been posted previously in this thread, as have several other good ones. All of which do no good if the person reading the pages can't understand what is written there, which seems to be the case here.

Unless Perithead is planning on putting his stern light on a separate switch from the bicolor, he'll want a steaming light as well. The anchor light, which is an all-around 360-degree white light can be used in place of the steaming light and stern light...*but not if the stern light is also being used.*


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## Perithead

Yes, I understood that I did have to have my stern light wired to a different switch and was planning on doing that. It isn't that I misunderstood what I was reading. 

But really if I had the steaming light also then I would still need another switch correct? So it would be the same about of switches just one more light. 

I never knew this wowuld get so complicated. I just figured I would get a pretty straight answer and the thread would ahve been over in 5-10 posts. Boy was I wrong.......


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## sailingdog

Unfortunately, navigation lighting can get a bit complicated, since offshore, you would want the lights up high, for better visibility, since deck-level lights can be hidden by sails, waves, etc, and inshore you'd want deck-level lights, since they're much more likely to be seen clearly at the shorter ranges that you'll encounter harbor traffic at.


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## Perithead

Well, I appreciate everyone who joined in on this thread as it was very helpful.

Now instead of making a new thread I think I will just ask where should I purchase my lights from? I was thinking online at maybe Dr. LED, that site seems pretty good. Anyone had good/bad experiences with them or can suggest other sites.

Again I want all of my navigation light to be LED.

To decide exactly which lights to get is going to be my next question. Goodness I feel kind of helpless asking all these questions but I want to do it correctly, and this is my first time replacing the lights on a sailboat.

I am not exactly familiar with navigation lights and mounting them but I am very handy and can definately do it myself I just dont know which lights to buy.

It seems that the easiest way to do this would be to buy all new replacement bulbs for may already mounted hardware. The problem I have with this is I am not very familiar with bulbs and how they are mounted or whatnot, so I dont know how to choose the correct ones that would fit in my navigation light fixtures now. I am not at my boat but will be this weekend if I need to look at each one and take pictures or whatever needs to be done. But I am thinking maybe most lighting fixtures are pretty much the same and any bulb would fit any one? Or maybe not.... *Or maybe I should just buy all new fixtures? Whatever is best I will do.*


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## pegasus1457

JohnRPollard said:


> Also, you MAY NOT legally use both the masthead tri-color and the deck level lights simultaneously. You must choose one or the other based on the sailing conditions or circumstances.


John, I have not been able to find any place in the Rules which support your statement. Can you supply a reference?

I have found in Rule 25 that the red-over-green masthead may not be used in conjunction with the masthead tri-color, but nothing about deck lights ...


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## billyruffn

Pegasus,
I was looking at Rule 25 today and it is confusing. The wording of the rule seems to indicate you can use a tri-color "in combination" with deck nav lights, but the drawings included in the rules show one boat with deck level nav lights only and another with mast-head tri-color only. They don't have a diagram with both deck nav and mast-head tri-color in use simultaneously.

I say, let's call the USCG for a clarification! Perhaps someone could email a crusty ol' Coastie master chief and he can set us all straight.


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## TSOJOURNER

*Rule 25*



> (a) A sailing vessel underway shall exhibit:
> (i) sidelights; and
> (ii) a stern light.
> 
> (b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 meters in length the lights pre-
> scribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in *one* lantern
> carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen.


Where is the ambiguity?

Thanks to this thread I have a much greater understanding why the phrase "_..shall not be infringed_" is so hard to interpret. Thanks Guys


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## Plumper

You can't have two sets of running lights on at once because that means something different. If memory serves it has something to do with dredging. 
Also, rule 20(b):The rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights as cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out.


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## sailaway21

I'd weigh in on a couple of issues.

I'll take strong exception to Billy Ruffin's statement regarding flashing a light into the pilothouse of an approaching ship. Aside from being specifically prohibited in the Colregs it's an incredibly stupid thing to do. In his defense, I'll say that he is hardly the first sailor to suggest such an action. Just consider the idea on it's practical merits. You're on a very small boat doing maybe 6 knots. An approaching ship is doing 17 knots, perhaps significantly faster. You cannot get out of the way of the ship, for all practical purposes. You're too close and it's too late for your 6 knots to move you far enough. You're relying on the ship seeing you and changing course. So you choose to blind the entire bridge watch of the ship with your life in their hands. Not too smart. The Colregs allow for signals to attract attention. The most common and, btw, the most effective is to take that same light and illuminate that big bed sheet over your head. Shining a light on your sail is an amazingly effective way of drawing attention to your vessel. If you are to attempt to signal a ship at night, for communication via morse or to attract attention, you should have either a red or amber lens over your signalling light and still do not point it directly at the house of the ship being signalled. "Uniform" would be an appropriate signal to send. There's a thread on the subject, "signalling", in Seamanship forum.

Plumper makes the innocent mistake of thinking there are no true all-round lights. There are, they're just not one single light. Sailors get easily confused on the matter, thinking that the only place they can truly show an all-round light is at the truck, the top of the mast. You actually can have "one" anywhere on the mast that you'd like. You merely need two 180 degree lights mounted at the same height on opposite sides of the mast. They'll appear as one single light to anyone not on board your boat. If you examine tugs and the masts of merchant ships, you'll see the practise is quite common and completely legal.


I would hazard a guess, based upon my experiences, that more boats head out into open waters relying on their deck mounted sidelights than enter harbor relying on their tri-color. While there is more traffic in harbor, it's more likely you'll be seen, speeds are slower, and much of the traffic is of small boats like ours. Anotherwords, you probably won't get killed. On the other hand, offshore relying on deck mounted side-lights to indicate your presence to a fast moving merchant or naval ship, that has no idea that they are not all alone on the ocean, is rather foolish in my book. Your lights are only rated at two miles to begin with; why hide them behind a sail or the seas? Get them up in the air where a ship can see them, as in a tri-color. Because, out there, if he hits you, you'll be dead and the ship may not even know that a collision occurred. Always, see and be seen.


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## Plumper

Wrong thread.


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## artbyjody

Sailway has it nailed down - nice post - thanks...


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## sailingdog

*The Tricolor is used in place of the deck level lights, and as such can't be used with deck-level lights. 
*


pegasus1457 said:


> John, I have not been able to find any place in the Rules which support your statement. Can you supply a reference?
> 
> I have found in Rule 25 that the red-over-green masthead may not be used in conjunction with the masthead tri-color, but nothing about deck lights ...


Perithead-

There is one company that does make LED replacement bulbs for various light fixtures that are USCG approved for use in those fixtures. I don't remember the site, but you'd have to have the right fixtures for them to work on your boat.

It will be more expensive to go with new LED-based fixtures, but they may be worth it in the long run, since they're probably more reliable than just upgrading the bulbs in the existing fixtures.


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## BarryL

*regulations vs the real world*

Hello,

This has been an interesting thread. I wonder how the rules are followed around the world. Where I sail, the Long Island Sound, the waters are fairly crowded, some more than others. I like to sail, and sail often at night. One of the things I like about sailing at night is that it is less crowded. Anyway, my boat is properly configured and I follow the rules (turning lights on at dusk, using the steaming light when I motor, turning it off when I sail, etc.). From my recollection, it seems that there are a lot of boats out there that don't run the correct lights. I have seen everything from small power boats (20' or so) fishing in a small channel with no lights, to bigger powerboats zooming along with no white lights, to the Bridgeport Port Jeff Ferries, which are so light up they look like cities on the water.

I have learned to take nothing for granted and when I sail at night I pay very close attention to other boats out there. I don't rely on the lights to tell me what kind of boat is out there, but use the lights just to alert me that there is another boat out there. I then use binocs, extra eyes, etc. to determine boat type, speed, heading, distance. I am also always ready to alter course to protect my boat and passengers.

My last point concerns the regulations vs. the 'big boat' rule. The Bridgeport Port Jeff ferry company runs 3 boats in the season. They sail often and run late at night. They don't change course for anyone, regardless of where you encounter them. It doesn't matter if it is inside Port Jeff harbor, or out on the open sound. They are headed in one direction and if you are in the way - too bad for you. At least they are easy to see, but don't think that because you are a sailboat they will alter course.

Some of my favorite sailing memories are trips back to Mt. Sinai from locations further east. One one trip we left Mattituck harber at 8:00 PM (in July, so it got dark around 9:00 PM). We (my wife and 3 kids) sailed west, had the kids fall asleep around 9:30, watched the moon rise around 10:00, and didn't see another vessel until midnight or so. We only encountered one more boat the entire trip, and that was another sailboat sailing to the harbor entrance. We were back on the mooring at 1:00am. Things went downhill when I had to wake the kids, get the car, close up the boat, but that's another story.

Barry


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## pegasus1457

I have learned something from following this thread and re-reading the COLREGS (which I thought I understood, but ...)

My "new" 1980 Pearson came with deck level side lights which back unto the anchor locker, and as a result, had the wiring constantly beaten up by anchor chain and rode. So the PO abandoned them and installed a combination masthead light by Hella (not cheap) which has at the top a white anchor or steaming light (360 deg) and directly underneath that a tri-color, both of which can be separately controlled.

I had planned to use both the sidelights and the tri-color, which I now have learned is a no-no, and I have also learned that the whole concept of this dual fixture does not conform to the rules, since the white steaming light is not sufficiently separated vertically from the tri-color.

I will still use the anchor light, but I guess now I will keep the tri-color for emergencies (failed deck light and no engine )

Life is so complicated ...


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## Plumper

BarryL said:


> I have learned to take nothing for granted and when I sail at night I pay very close attention to other boats out there. I don't rely on the lights to tell me what kind of boat is out there, but use the lights just to alert me that there is another boat out there. I then use binocs, extra eyes, etc. to determine boat type, speed, heading, distance. I am also always ready to alter course to protect my boat and passengers.
> 
> Barry


Wise words from a prudent sailor.


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## pegasus1457

BarryL said:


> I don't rely on the lights to tell me what kind of boat is out there, but use the lights just to alert me that there is another boat out there. I then use binocs, extra eyes, etc. to determine boat type, speed, heading, distance.


You can still get into serious trouble this way -- A case in point: you see the lights of 2 large vessels. There is no moon to help you see anything with your binoculars other than the lights. You need to understand the lights to tell you that the first vessel is towing the second (barge) so that you don't decide to duck between them.


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## billyruffn

Sailboy wrote:

*Rule 25*

Quote:

(a) A sailing vessel underway shall exhibit:
(i) sidelights; and
(ii) a stern light.

(b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 meters in length the lights pre-
scribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in *one* lantern
carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen. 
Where is the ambiguity?
----------------

Sailboy....you're right. I read it "combined with". It was late.


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## billyruffn

In an earlier post I wrote: In the situation you describe, a sweep across his bridge with a powerful hand held light would probably get his attention quicker than another stern light....
------------
Sailaway21 wrote: I'll take strong exception to Billy Ruffin's statement regarding flashing a light into the pilothouse of an approaching ship. Aside from being specifically prohibited in the Colregs it's an incredibly stupid thing to do. 
-----------
Navigation Rules state:

*Rule 36 - Signals to Attraction Attention* If necessary to attract the attention of another vessel, any vessel may make light or sound signals that cannot be mistaken for any signal authorized elsewhere in these Rules, or may direct the beam of her searchlight in the direction of the danger, in such a way as not to embarrass any vessel. _Any light to attract the attention of another vessel shall be such that it cannot be mistaken for any aid to navigation. For the purpose of this Rule the use of high intensity intermittent or revolving lights, such as strobe lights, shall be avoided. _[Intl]

Sweeping a powerful hand-held light across the bridge of an on coming ship is a "light signal" -- because it is a sweeping light (which will appear on the other ship as a momentary flash) it is unlikely to be confused with another navigation light, nor "embarrass" the ship's crew.

--------------
Sailaway21 continued: 
You're on a very small boat doing maybe 6 knots. An approaching ship is doing 17 knots, perhaps significantly faster. You cannot get out of the way of the ship, for all practical purposes. You're too close and it's too late for your 6 knots to move you far enough. You're relying on the ship seeing you and changing course. So you choose to blind the entire bridge watch of the ship with your life in their hands. Not too smart. The Colregs allow for signals to attract attention. 
-------------
I think the situation you describe above is not the situation PBezer described, which was the one I was referring to in my post. He was in a marked channel and was being overtaken. His response to the situation was to turn on another stern light. It was to this situation that I was speaking.

If you're on a small boat and have gotten yourself into a situation where the only way you're going to avoid a collision with a larger ship doing "17 knots" is to have him change course, you're probably in trouble. I generally stay well clear of large ships, especially ones doing 17 knots and especially at night. If I think there is any risk of a situation arising that's going to cause anyone grief, I call the other ship on the VHF and arrange make suitable arrangements for passing / crossing well before either of us has a chance to get nervous. But if it really is a situation where its "too close" and "too late" for you to do anything and the only thing that will keep him from hitting you is for him to see you --- I'd hit him with the light! If he sees a light ahead and he thinks he's going to hit it, he'll turn away from it even if he has been "blinded" as you suggest. He'll recover his night vision, and I'll stay dry.

As an aside: The Rules would permit you to pop off a white flare to attract attention. At close range that's pretty blinding, especially for the guy holding the flare. Sweeping a hand-held light in the direction of a ship is much less likely to impact a helmsman's night vision than a brilliant white flare. Have you ever been on a highway at night and had a motorist or a policeman in the road ahead sweep a flash light in your direction? It's not "blinding", but it does get your attention and communicates that there's something ahead that you probably don't want to hit.

You're right that a light on the sails is a good way to attract attention. I agree -- try it first. But then, if he doesn't answer the radio and he doesn't seem to see your sail....and it is "too close and too late" .... do whatever you gotta do to keep the SoB from hitting you.

As we used to say in the Navy...."A collision at sea can ruin your day."


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## billyruffn

Pegasus wrote:

I had planned to use both the sidelights and the tri-color, which I now have learned is a no-no, and I have also learned that the whole concept of this dual fixture does not conform to the rules, since the white steaming light is not sufficiently separated vertically from the tri-color.

I will still use the anchor light, but I guess now I will keep the tri-color for emergencies (failed deck light and no engine )

Life is so complicated ...
---------------------------------
Pegasus,

Life need not be complicated...

Here's a simple light plan:

Sailing at night (no engine) use your mast head tri-color. Rational -- It's legal and because the masthead light has one bulb, it burns less amps than the two or three bulbs that are in your deck nav sidelights and stern light.

Motoring at night: Use your deck level lights (side lights and stern light) and the "steaming" light on the mast (225 deg facing forward). If you don't have a separate steaming light and your boat is less than 12 meters, you can use your deck level lights (side lights and stern light) and your 360 deg "anchor" light in lieu of the steaming light. Rational -- it's legal** and the engines on, so you don't care how many amps the lights take.

**Rule 23 (Power-Driven Vessels) says the following:

A power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights.
_a power-driven vessel of less than 7 meters in length .... (N/A)_
_the masthead light or all-round white light on a power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may be displaced from the fore and aft centerline of the vessel if centerline fitting is not practicable, provided the sidelights are combined in one lantern which shall be carried on the fore and aft centerline of the vessel or located as nearly as practicable in the same fore and aft line as the masthead light or the all-round white light. _[Intl]
Above from: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule23.htm

Anchored at night: Turn on the all round white light that's part of your masthead tri-color/anchor light combination. You indicated that it was switched separately. Rational -- It's legal.

If you don't like the power the anchor light burns (1-2 amps x hours of darkness can be a lot), you can buy a smaller low-amp light (Davis makes one) and hang it in your fore triangle, or if you really want to get nautical get an oil lamp which draws no amps at all.


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## Plumper

Directing a light at the bridge of another vessel is exactly what is meant by embarrassing another vessel. 
it is just plain wrong.


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## sailaway21

That wording does not appear in the rules. What does appear is, in Signals to Attract Attention, "...or may direct the beam of her searchlight in the direction of the danger, in such a way as not to embarass any vessel".

The US code further states, in the relevant CFR, section 80.34 "Flashing the rays of a searchlight or other blinding light onto the bridge or into the pilothouse of any vessel under way is prohibited. Any person who shall flash or cause to be flashed the rays of a blinding light in violation of the above may be proceeded against in accordance with the provisions of R.S. 4450, as amended, looking to the revocation or suspension of his license or certificate."

source-Farwell's Rules of the Nautical Road, 3rd ed., 1969

Regardless of what practise you follow, with your VHF or otherwise, the Rules are predicated on ship's being equipped only to the extent that the Rules decree. You'll find nothing about using the VHF, although it's use could certainly be implied. Signals to attract attention are specifically addressed and the word "embarass" may not be familiar to current readers. "Embarass" in this usage means to cause to turn away, as one would from a blinding light.

You do not develop much, if any, night vision within an automobile. It takes 15 minutes to restore your night vision after being blinded by white light, a bit less if you're young, quite a bit more if you're old.

The flare-up light you refer to has traditionally been a pine-pitch torch and not an explosive flare. Shining a flashlight upwards would be the equivalent.

I take this matter extremely seriously as a former Master of merchant ships with exposure to sailboats who thought as you've expressed. The pilot's, ship's masters, tugs, and the USCG will go to great lengths to identify and find anyone doing this and have them prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. We take it very seriously.

I will agree with you only to the extent that you've got to do what you've got to do when things get close, but reiterate that blinding the mate on watch of the vessel of whose actions you expect to save you and your vessel is not the right thing to do. And blind them you will. Etiquette on the bridge of a ship at night means that you turn away from others just to light a cigarette. Once night vision is fully attained, white light is physically painful to the eyes. And it's harder yet to keep good night vision when manoeuvering within a harbor.

Get a big 'ol flashlight and make a dark amber or red lens for it out of plexiglass. Then you can signal Uniform to your heart's content, in the general direction of the ship, still not towards the pilothouse, and know that you'll be seen.


----------



## tdw

I was under the impression that it is OK for a boat under 'X' metres to use all round masthead white as a steamer. X because I can't remember the point at which this becomes illegal but from memory it's around 12m. Certainly Raven was set up with tricolour and masthead all round and it's never caused us any bother with the water plod. Maybe we are unintentionally breaking the rules, I guess I'd better check.

When we had the new rigging installed we did replace the deck light with one of those combo deck and steaming lights but I need to install another switch. 

I have noticed that you can buy battery operated LED nav lights so I'm also thinking that I might get a set of those as a backup and for use where the background clutter makes the masthead difficult to see clearly. Seems like a sensible compromise.


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## sailaway21

The wombat's memory is correct. Power driven, under 12 meters, sidelights and an all-round.


----------



## pegasus1457

tdw said:


> I was under the impression that it is OK for a boat under 'X' metres to use all round masthead white as a steamer. X because I can't remember the point at which this becomes illegal but from memory it's around 12m. Certainly Raven was set up with tricolour and masthead all round and it's never caused us any bother with the water plod. Maybe we are unintentionally breaking the rules, I guess I'd better check.


Wombat,

From previous posts in this thread, the white light that you use for a steaming light has to be at least 1m higher than your side lights, whether they are at deck level or atop your mast.

So if I understood your setup from your description, yours doesn't fill the bill.

I would quote you the Rule number but it is late and I don't have the patience tonight.


----------



## Classic30

sailaway21 said:


> The wombat's memory is correct. Power driven, under 12 meters, sidelights and an all-round.


Actually, down here, below 7 meters (my kind of category) you don't need lights at all! 

Just a torch to shine on the sail if someone's coming...


----------



## tdw

pegasus1457 said:


> Wombat,
> 
> From previous posts in this thread, the white light that you use for a steaming light has to be at least 1m higher than your side lights, whether they are at deck level or atop your mast.
> 
> So if I understood your setup from your description, yours doesn't fill the bill.
> 
> I would quote you the Rule number but it is late and I don't have the patience tonight.


Peg, 
You are quite right. For any vessel under power and loa less than 20m the requirement is for sidelights and all round white which may be combined in one unit BUT the steaming light must be at least one metre above the sidelights. As you point out.

This makes for an interesting situation. Under sail our setup is quite legal but our all round white is only really usable as an anchor light. This means of course that any sailing boat with a masthead setup requires a second set of lower sidelights so that if the masthead allround is to be used as a steaming light it will be in excess of one metre above the sidelights.

In other words by law I need to fit a secondary set of sidelights at deck level. I'd never taken that in and it means an awful lot of motor/sailors and/or auxilliary sailing boats do not have a legal setup.

Finally, the steamer must be at least 2.5 metres above the gunwhales.

My information has been gathered from the website of NSW Maritime.

Thanks to you all for the heads up.


----------



## JohnRPollard

billyruffn said:


> Here's a simple light plan:
> 
> Sailing at night (no engine) use your mast head tri-color. Rational -- It's legal and because the masthead light has one bulb, it burns less amps than the two or three bulbs that are in your deck nav sidelights and stern light.
> 
> Motoring at night: Use your deck level lights (side lights and stern light) and the "steaming" light on the mast (225 deg facing forward). *If you don't have a separate steaming light and your boat is less than 12 meters, you can use your deck level lights (side lights and stern light) and your 360 deg "anchor" light in lieu of the steaming light. Rational -- it's legal** and the engines on, so you don't care how many amps the lights take.*


(bold emphasis added)

Billyruffn,

I'm not so sure about that. In the portion of your advice that I bolded above, I think you could only do this legally if you could also turn off your stern light with a separate switch. Otherwise when viewed from the stern you would be displaying two white lights, one over the other, which would cause confusion.

According to the Rule 23, vessels less than 12M can use the 360 degree all round light in lieu of the stern light, but not in conjunction with it. This is where it becomes tricky, because very few boats equipped with traditional deck level lights (port, starboard, stern) have the ability to switch the stern light on and off separately from the bow lights. Which is why most sailboats are equipped with a "masthead" light (225 degree forward facing, usually mounted near the first spreader). That way they can use their standard deck level running lights and simply activate the mast head light for nightime operating with auxiliary propulsion.

Again, the short answer is that unless you are engineless, a mast-top tri-color (even one equipped with a 360 anchor light) will not meet all your night-time requirements. And you can never legally use it while motoring.


----------



## pegasus1457

*Something to be careful of ...*

I have noticed in re-reading this thread and referring back to the Regs, that the requirements for sailing vessels have a discontinuity at LOA of *20m*, which is larger than almost every S/V represented by the forum members.

*BUT..*

The rules change for power boats at LOA of *12m*, which falls smack in the midst of our fleet. And remember: the power boat regs apply to all of us when we are using the engine.

So make sure that the legal configurations that have been discussed here apply to your boat if it is longer than 12m (39 ft).


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## sailingdog

JRP-

The all-around white light is in place of the stern light and steaming light... and can not be used with a stern light... in otherwords, if you use your anchor light for when you're motoring, the deck-level stern light must be OFF.


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## JohnRPollard

sailingdog said:


> JRP-
> 
> The all-around white light is in place of the stern light and steaming light... and can not be used with a stern light... in otherwords, if you use your anchor light for when you're motoring, the deck-level stern light must be OFF.


SD,

Gosh, I thought that's what I said in my most recent post to Billyruffn. Hmmm. Could you point out where I went astray?


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## billyruffn

JohnRPollard wrote:

Billyruffn,

I'm not so sure about that. In the portion of your advice that I bolded above, I think you could only do this legally if you could also turn off your stern light with a separate switch. Otherwise when viewed from the stern you would be displaying two white lights, one over the other, which would cause confusion. 
--------------

You're absolutely right!


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## sailingdog

JRP-

My bad, I meant that for Billruffn... not you.


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## JohnRPollard

sailingdog said:


> JRP-
> 
> My bad, I meant that for Billruffn... not you.


Ahhh, understood, no worries.

By the way, I think this was a great thread. As usual it diverged from the original question, but the subject got pretty well fleshed out and perhaps some of us (certainly me) had a good refresher along the way...


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## sailaway21

One of the aspects that may make the Colregs difficult to understand in regard to lights and light placement is that they're obviously written with the operator in mind. While light spacing and luminosity are there, they're seperate from the requirements of the rules. It makes sense in that most are only interested in the rules per se and not the regs, having assumedly purchased a boat in compliance from the manufacturer.

It seems that most sailboats, especially the smaller ones, are much more in compliance with the lights required under sail than those required under power. The implicit assumption being that sailing is better than motoring. In return for this striking illumination, I request only that small donations be made to the AFOC-midwest director of logistics, in care of the social committee.


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## bestfriend

I have to chime in. Pertihead, keep it simple stupid. KISS Use what you are required to use, and make sure it works and is visible. If you start putting all kinds of extra gadgets and lights on your boat, you'll end up looking like a christmas tree. How many times have you been out there and seen a group of lights thinking, "what the heck is that?". If you have extra lights that are only required on larger or different vessels than what you are on, what does that say to the other people about your boat. Get only what you need, and stuff for emergency situations. Its confusing enough out there, don't make it worse.


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## sailaway21

Anyone interested in understanding the Rules of the Road and their evolution to their current state, will be interested in Farwell's R-o-R. At first glance, it appears intimidating but actually does an excellent job of explanation as well as inform on the various court decisions that have been made referencing the rules. You don't have to know what an RS 4450 is to enjoy this book. It can be found in it's 2004 edition here:http://www.amazon.com/Farwells-Naut...=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202523724&sr=1-8

And you'll find the 1993 edition on amazon as well, for less than $3. I'm probably due for an update since I'm still operating off the '69 edition. (g)


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## gyrfalcon

Is this sort of navigation lighting illegal on a 26 foot sailboat? I'm guessing it's not since port and starboard lights are on two levels? Besides being an annoyance and maybe looking like two ships, are there any other reasons against this sort of navigational lighting?

Basically I'm wondering if you can have nav lights on your mast and decks for higher visibility in different conditions.

Edit: Removed pictures


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## Plumper

No you can't. Multiple lights mean different things and would be confusing to anyone who saw the lights. You should read the section in the Colregs on lights. It is easy reading and will make all this clear.


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## sailingdog

This kind of lighting is probably illegal, and a good way to get run over, since it won't make any sense to anyone else.

The COLREGs clearly state a sailboat is required to have three lights visible when under sail: * A RED Port light, A GREEN Starboard light and a WHITE stern light.

*These lights can be shown as three independent lights, a bicolor and a stern light, or on a single tricolor fixture. Not all of these are legal on all boats. *The tricolor is used in place of the deck level lights.*



gyrfalcon said:


> Is this sort of navigation lighting illegal on a 26 foot sailboat? I'm guessing it's not since port and starboard lights are on two levels? Besides being an annoyance and maybe looking like two ships, are there any other reasons against this sort of navigational lighting?
> 
> Basically I'm wondering if you can have nav lights on your mast and decks for higher visibility in different conditions.
> 
> ....Under Sail . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Under Power....


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## TSOJOURNER

wow... where did you get that? I am guessing the author of the image was attempting to show the possible placement of deck lights, not that there could be more than one at the same time. BTW there is no such thing as a masthead bicolor.. That has been hashed out in earlier posts to this thread as I recall. 
Don't trust everything you find on the internet. Or.. if you really want to you can visit this site:


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## ReefMagnet

My boat is under 12m. I have a 360 deg anchor at the top of the mast, a stern light at the stern and port and starboard lights up on the bow. I wired the anchor light and stern light through a relay connected in parallel to the motor ignition switch so that when I turn the motor on, the stern light is extinguished and the anchor light lights up and vice versa when I turn the engine off. This means I only have a single nav light switch and sail / power nav light selection is automatic. An added bonus is that this arrangement also makes the front nav lights come on automatically if the motor is started with the anchor light on - keeps me legal even when jumping out of bed at 4 in the morning to drive the boat around in circles to unwrap the rode off the keel


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## JohnRPollard

ReefMagnet said:


> My boat is under 12m. I have a 360 deg anchor at the top of the mast, a stern light at the stern and port and starboard lights up on the bow. I wired the anchor light and stern light through a relay connected in parallel to the motor ignition switch so that when I turn the motor on, the stern light is extinguished and the anchor light lights up and vice versa when I turn the engine off. This means I only have a single nav light switch and sail / power nav light selection is automatic. An added bonus is that this arrangement also makes the front nav lights come on automatically if the motor is started with the anchor light on - keeps me legal even when jumping out of bed at 4 in the morning to drive the boat around in circles to unwrap the rode off the keel


Clever. The only problem I see is that you would be displaying motor boat lights when you are strictly sailing if you have to run your engine to charge the batteries. So you'd lose your sailboat right-of way during charging. Also, in a race, your competitors might take this to mean you are using auxiliary propulsion and therefore abandoning/disqualified. Aside from this, I can see some advantages.


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## TSOJOURNER

Where does one order the tri-color masthead light? There's one in Portland OR at West Marine but its very expensive -- and I don't wish to do business with West (getcha) Marine anyway.

From a guy that is mostly offshore sailing.


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## JohnRPollard

Miceal1 said:


> Where does one order the tri-color masthead light? There's one in Portland OR at West Marine but its very expensive -- and I don't wish to do business with West (getcha) Marine anyway.
> 
> From a guy that is mostly offshore sailing.


SailNet seems to carry it:

Tri-Color Masthead Light

Try calling them directly.

If not SailNet, I expect Defender would carry it.


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## TSOJOURNER

A tricolor light is not a substitue for a steaming light or an anchor light.


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## seafrontiersman

You could also just hoist an all-round light at the masthead using a halyard. I saw this in good old boat and it works for me! Good luck!


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## Tuna Driver

*Needed Lighting*

Perithead, like ourselves, needs no lights other than an electric torch or lantern while sailing at night as we are under 7 meters. To power, only an all around white light is required. That said, I'm putting a 360 white mast top light with side lights below. We have ancient cabin side lights that love to grab the jib sheet while racing. I am thinking of putting the 135degree side lights just above or below the spreaders on the mast itself. I've not seen this done, but it seems reasonable for visibility under any conditions. The lights are obscured now by the jib and in any case would cause it to glow the correct color on the leeward side. Any thoughts on this? BTW I did email the USCG about this very thread subject some time ago. Silence.

Tuna Driver


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## mitiempo

I would install the red/green lower, on the bow rail if you have one ideally so as to be high enough to be seen easily and never be obscured by a sail. A stern is required as well when under sail. Under power an all round white light can take the place of the steaming light and stern light, but not under sail.

While it is true you only need a white light as you are under 7 meters as soon as you start using red/green lights all other lighting rules apply as if you are over 7 meters.


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## junkrig

Part of this confusion is strictly semantic. 

A masthead steaming light in sailing terms does not indicate a light at the top of the mast, although that is permissible;
a masthead light (for steaming) can be on any stick at least a meter above the side lights.
Deck level lights can be mounted on the deck, or
Deck level lights can be mounted on the cabin sides at any height, as long as they are 1 meter below "masthead" steaming light.
Although red-and-green nav lights are often mounted on the bow in a combined fixture, this is only "permitted", not required, and is not even permitted on larger vessels.
The fixture at the top of the mast is known as the "tricolor" light, not the "masthead" light. See previous definition of "masthead" light.
Aside from the tricolor, the red and green lights are always known as side lights, whether mounted at the bow, on the side decks, or on the cabin sides.
The anchor light can be at the top of the mast, without regard to the proximity to the tricolor light, because the tricolor light will be off while at anchor.


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## celenoglu

The rules are clear enough for location of lights and their visibility angles. And the rules state that they shouldbe visible from some distance which varies with boat length. 

The problem with leds is that they do not emit lights withthe same spectrum of normal bulbs. Although the illumination measured with a meter is equal or mre than a filament bulb they are not visible to the human eye. If youreally want to be seen make sure your leds are accepted by your authorities. all leds are not the same and I can not spot some of the leds in sea although they are very close.


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## MarkSF

JohnRPollard said:


> Clever. The only problem I see is that you would be displaying motor boat lights when you are strictly sailing if you have to run your engine to charge the batteries. So you'd lose your sailboat right-of way during charging. Also, in a race, your competitors might take this to mean you are using auxiliary propulsion and therefore abandoning/disqualified. Aside from this, I can see some advantages.


According to the data on the USCG website, when a sailboat is under power, an all round white light is only legal in international waters.


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## SlowButSteady

MarkSF said:


> According to the data on the USCG website, when a sailboat is under power, an all round white light is only legal in international waters.


Dang. I was about to say that.

Inland rules differ from the COLREGS in only a very few ways, but this happens to be one of them. You might also not that a small white light is _much_ harder to see against a background of shore lights than are red and green nav lights (which are plenty hard enough to pick out, at times).


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