# A Discussion of the Philosophies of Cruising and Circumnavigating



## Cruisingdad

THere are many philosophies regarding cruising and, more so, circumnavigating. There are those that may tend to go over the top (much like myself, to admit honestly) where I want to travel in comfort and as much safety as possible. On the other side of the scale, is the "KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid), Go smaller, go now" philosophy.

I would invite both the new and seasoned sailor into this discussion. I believe there should be some disclosure up front as to your sailing experience. It would add merit to your comments and philosophies. Your experience is not meant to remove the validity of your arguments... it is to help the discussion along. 

Let's remember thgat we are all friends here and each person is granted his own opinions. Respect them and try to understand their point of view - whether you agree with them or not.

I would like this thread to be informative and a good guide to current and future sailors who wish to embarq on the dream of the deep blue.

Let's kick it off and have fun with it.

Brian


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## night0wl

After crunching the numbers in my head, the only over-riding philosophy for going bluewater to me would mean get a boat thats either:

1) Paid for/off completely (cash)
2) Pay for the boat with home-equity or other sources of cash

If you're going to buy a bluewater boat, even those as storied as Valiants, will require you to have insurance and all the associated restrictions/covenants that go along with it. Bluewater insurance on a boat thats got a note on it is prohibitively expensive.

Now, if you get a boat with cash or home equity - there's a certain aspect of "self insurance" that goes along with it. Have enough equity on top of it to be able to limp back home if something happens to your bluewater yacht.


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## Freesail99

Circumnavigating I don't get or understand. It has been done so many times now. Saying I want to sail to Spain and then Greece and maybe Africa, I do understand. Circumnavigating seems more like something people say when they don't know where they really want to go, me I rather sail to Spain then Greece and then ......


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## smackdaddy

At this point in my super-newb career, I honestly have no desire at all to circumnav. I like the idea of coastal cruising and island hopping - and maybe a crossing at some point. And that's what I'm working up toward. 

But I'm with Free - I just want to have some destinations and get to them as safely as possible - then drink.


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## tommays

Well on OP big race boats 

I have never gone more than 48+ hours non-stop (3 to 4 hour watches) BUT it was a whole lot of distance races over a 3 season time frame and it was really intense with there being no such thing as a weather window 

If it stopped blowing we anchored if it blew 50 double reef and Kevlar #3 and we got really freaking wet.

On my own J24 which we bought when we were twenty something's it was picked because it could sail well and it has 4 places to sleep.

It was equipped with a boom tent for the rain a curtain around the porta potty and two solar shower bags tied around the mast base to get clean.

I really cant tell you how many weekends myself wife and her twin sister and husband spent camping on the boat but it was a lot as the Jamesport to Montauk area was hard to get bored with.

In the present i bought a another J24 because a J80 cost to much  and the J80 mast is a bit to tall to step yourself and we still refuse to put up with being held hostage to the Long Island boat yard Mafia.

I still like doing foredeck on big race boats and you cant pay me to camp in a J24 anymore 


And anything more than a good 200 mile race is still more than enough time on a boat for me


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## kwaltersmi

My personal philosophy on cruising/circumnavigating/bluewater sailing is admittedly largely based on my anticipated budget. Obviously if I had unlimited funds I'd opt for a big Oyster with air, heat, refer, radars, watermakers, RIB's, lifeboat, solar/wind/diesel generators, hotwater, SSB, autopilot, sat phone, redundant chartplotting GPS's, and just about any other piece of fluff available. 

However, the reality is that I don't (and won't) have an unlimited budget. If I ever circumnavigate or make a major bluewater trip it will likely be in an "old shoe" that can be had for less than $75k (read Westsail 32/28, Southern Cross 31, Baba 30/35, PSC 27/31 Mariah, etc.). My techno and safety must-haves will be a liferaft, windvane steering, at least two GPS units, solar panels, plentiful tankage, raincatch system, and likely an SSB (perhaps only receiver). I'm with the Pardey's when they say "go small, go now". If I wait for the fully loaded Osyter with all the cozy comforts, I'll never go. 

As has been said many times by many long-distance cruisers: The extra fluff on a boat doesn't make the scenary in Hiva Oa any prettier or the wildlife in the Galapagos any more exotic or the weather any better in the Seychelles. In fact, I've heard many bluewater cruisers say their only regret is not having cast off the lines sooner in life. My goal is to make the adventure happen before my kids are too old to not want to come along.


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## imagine2frolic

I started sailing my own boat in 1991 after taking basic1,2, and coastal ASA on S.F. Bay. 18 months later I left alone with my ex-wife standing on the dock. I sailed as far as Cabo, and back alone. I also did a sail over to P.V. Mexico with one crew. My wife to P.V., and a friend back to Cabo. Frolic is a 30ft. Columbia shoal draft.

I was of the mindset of go now, and go with the minimum. I stayed a total of 5 months in Mexico. While Frolic stayed 2 years. I flew in, and out as I earned money. I was 41, fit, poor, enthusiastic, and life was grand.

After returning to S.F. I stumbled around from job to job, and eventually opened my own business. The business was a huge success, and after 5 years I sold out. I bought Imagine in St. Maarten in 02. In 03 I, and my new wife with only 2 afternoons of sailing flew to St. Maarten to board Imagine. 
A friend joined us, and we three sailed for Florida. Over the next 4 years my wife, and I have managed Imagine alone. Sailing the east coast of Florida, and months at a time in the Bahamas using South Beach as a hub.

For nearly 3 years now I have been back to work. Last June we took the month off, and raced to Miami, Acklin Island, and back to Jax Florida. Hopefully SOON I will quit work, and we will sail for the Philippines.

I put 4k miles on Frolic alone going to, and from Mexcio. I weathered 50+ mph winds around Point Conception with 20ft. + seas. I hand steered for 48 hours trying to beat up the coast of Mexico when the autopilot failed. I was thrown across Frolic's salon, and my head split open in a storm. I was thrown from her deck in yet another storm only to be drug back up onto the house by my harness. It was a strong learning curve, but all it did was deepen my desire to sail.

We have sailed Imagine nearly 10k miles in the areas described. We have seen 40 mph winds from every direction a boat can sail in. Imagine is a cold molded 46ft. cat built in Berlin by the Schmidt boatyard in conjuction with the original owner.

She has so much storage we can't fill it. She is approximently 15k pounds according to the designer Roger Simpson. The surveyor told me she was strong enough to break icebergs. I don't plan on testing his opinions although sometime in my life she may see icebergs. One never knows where life will take them.

Imagine is a speed demon compared to Frolic. We have managed 450 miles in in 48 hours. The last part of the trip from West Palm to Miami we crawled with one hull on the beach fighting the Stream. Imagine is palacial compared to Frolic. My first 4 years on Imagine I didn't work.

So here I have had 2 boats. One slow, and with the minimum of comfort as compared to the other. 2 different scenarios, one being broke, and the other with money. I can say this about Frolic, and being broke. The sunsets were as pretty. The chilled beer was just as tasty. I was younger, and could tolerate more discomfort.

My body aches, and my nimbleness is not so nimble anymore. I want more comfort, and I was able to afford it. Imagine sails flat all the time, and things stay in place. As you can see I have experienced both. All I can suggest is to just go. Go when you can, and with what you have. You can always make more money, but you can't make more time. This hits me hard especially right now. A friend of 40 years died yesterday at the age of 55. I have lived my life with no what ifs. I have not regretted living in this way.

We all get through life differently. We all have different needs, and wants. I worry that if I had waited until I could have afforded Imagine. It may not have happened. You see it was Frolic that made me focused. It was the being thrown overboard, my head split open, and all the discomforts in sailing that made me focused, and to become successful. Many of my friends call the trip on Frolic a failure. I call it a success, and an adventure that deepened the desire to sail. Go with what you have, and while you have your health.......BEST WISHES in sailing into adventure......i2f


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## Cruisingdad

My disclosure:

I have been sailing "large boats" for approximately 15 years or so now. I have sailed in Galveston through the shipping channel, off the coast of California, I have been offshore from Oxnard to Catalina Island and San Diego. About 8-9 years ago, I moved to S Florida with my wife and young child. We lived aboard and cruised about every inch of land including considerable time in the Tortugas. At this point I have 2 children, Chase is now 8 about to turn 9, Glen is 5. We spend almost every weekend on our Catalina 400 on Lake Texmoa, about 100 yards from where they lay up Valiant Yachts. My parents, who did some cruising with us (especially dad), have purchased a Tayana 42. We work together on both boats, so I can comfortably say that I am as knowledgeable of a Tayana 42 as I am my 400, my 380, and not as much as other boats I have sailed. 

My philosophy is safety and "comfort". I do not believe in purchasing every gadget known to man, but I have found many of the modern "gadgets" add a level of safety and comfort which I will not leave home without. I also believe that they have made further destinations/shores within the reach of more people that otherwise might never have considered them.

The items I feel are essential to cruising are:

1) SSB - I have to be able to have some link of communication and be able to get weather information. You lose that about 20-25 miles offshore with only a VHF. Also, the ability to email is a cheap way to stay in touch with family and friends back home.

2) Radar - I doubt there is a piece of equipment on my boat I value more than radar. I remember one time in particular when coming in from Catalina Island and being RUN OVER by all the frieghters. Several changed their course at the last second (or so it appeared to us at the helm). THey are litterally on you in minutes. But even more so, it allows me to see markers when coming into a harbor at night, it allows me to watch for other, smaller boats, it can track the rain storms and how then are moving, and gives you eyes in the fog or when visibility is poor. I would NOT go crusiing without radar unless I never left sight of land.

3) Chartplotter. I MIGHT go cruising without a chartplotter, but it would be out of neccessity. The value in a CP cannot be overestimated. It allows you to consistently know exactly wher eyou are and if nothing else to verify your bearings that you have plotted on paper. It makes night navigation vastly easier and safer. It allows you to set in waypoints arnd areas of danger. It allows you to plot courses to minimize your passages. I do not consider it a toy for those too lazy to plot on paper - nor do I put all my trust in it. I do plot on paper every 30mins offshore. I have had them fail twice on me (once I think to lightning... to be fair). Still, it is a great safety and convenience tool. I agree with those who believe that it is too heavily relied on, but it has many positives which make it pretty hard to leave home for me. 

4) Autopilot. If youa re going to do any long distance sailing, I cannot imagine going without a windvane or autopilot (the latter having both its positives and negatives). I believe one of the two is a must. A windvane is prefered by many offshore sailors as it requires no power and does better in storms. The autopilot is preferred by many because it account for XTE and interfaces with a Chartplotter to make passages a breeze. They each have their positives and negatives, not to mention costs.

5) EPIRB. Don't leave home without it.

6) Solar/Wind generation. You are required to run lights at night, your electronics draw considerable power, even the bilge pump will pull 5 amps/day. Since most boats are limited in their capacity to incorporate many batteries (with 2-4-D's being typical), you have about 24-48 hours max without power regeneration of some type. Solar and wind can vastly increase the amount of time away from mechanical power generation. We did not have solar or wind on our 380, but we had a diesel generator. Solar is better - much better.

7) Refrigeration. This is not a necessity. I understand that. But I want to enjoy my time at sea, and not live off of dried foods and can foods. I want to enjoy my time at anchor (where you spend 99% of your time) as the same. 

8) Tankage. Lots of it, both water and fuel. Each person must consume in water 1/2 gallon-day in normal circumstances or you will dehydrate. However, when sitting in the hot sun of the tropics or working a winch or doing other strenuous activities, that number will go up considerably. You also have to have some water to cook. You have to have some water to wash your hands before cooking and hopefully after you use the restroom. You have to use your main for power regeneration and to motor through some storms and to get off a lee shore, and to go down the ICW, etc. Tankage has to be a serious concern.

9) Boat. I believe a boat should be comfortable down below. It is your home, not a weekend vacation where roughing it is fine. It has to have a lot of room for storage of goods and spare parts. I believe in a well-performing boat, boat one that can take a beating in the 5% storms you will encounter. We can discuss this in more depth later.

10) Room for a tender. I believe you must have a tender. We ended putting countelss miles on ours. I think the resano for this should be obvious.

This is not my complete list, but it is a start. It gives you a good idea of my philosophies and what I believe a cruiser (especially a circum) should take. I would apprecaite other's thoughts.

- CD


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## Freesail99

Cruisingdad said:


> My disclosure:
> 
> I have been sailing "large boats" for approximately 15 years or so now. I have sailed in Galveston through the shipping channel, off the coast of California, I have been offshore from Oxnard to Catalina Island and San Diego. About 8-9 years ago, I moved to S Florida with my wife and young child. We lived aboard and cruised about every inch of land including considerable time in the Tortugas. At this point I have 2 children, Chase is now 8 about to turn 9, Glen is 5. We spend almost every weekend on our Catalina 400 on Lake Texmoa, about 100 yards from where they lay up Valiant Yachts. My parents, who did some cruising with us (especially dad), have purchased a Tayana 42. We work together on both boats, so I can comfortably say that I am as knowledgeable of a Tayana 42 as I am my 400, my 380, and not as much as other boats I have sailed.
> 
> My philosophy is safety and "comfort". I do not believe in purchasing every gadget known to man, but I have found many of the modern "gadgets" add a level of safety and comfort which I will not leave home without. I also believe that they have made further destinations/shores within the reach of more people that otherwise might never have considered them.
> 
> The items I feel are essential to cruising are:
> 
> 1) SSB - I have to be able to have some link of communication and be able to get weather information. You lose that about 20-25 miles offshore with only a VHF. Also, the ability to email is a cheap way to stay in touch with family and friends back home.
> 
> 2) Radar - I doubt there is a piece of equipment on my boat I value more than radar. I remember one time in particular when coming in from Catalina Island and being RUN OVER by all the frieghters. Several changed their course at the last second (or so it appeared to us at the helm). THey are litterally on you in minutes. But even more so, it allows me to see markers when coming into a harbor at night, it allows me to watch for other, smaller boats, it can track the rain storms and how then are moving, and gives you eyes in the fog or when visibility is poor. I would NOT go crusiing without radar unless I never left sight of land.
> 
> 3) Chartplotter. I MIGHT go cruising without a chartplotter, but it would be out of neccessity. The value in a CP cannot be overestimated. It allows you to consistently know exactly wher eyou are and if nothing else to verify your bearings that you have plotted on paper. It makes night navigation vastly easier and safer. It allows you to set in waypoints arnd areas of danger. It allows you to plot courses to minimize your passages. I do not consider it a toy for those too lazy to plot on paper - nor do I put all my trust in it. I do plot on paper every 30mins offshore. I have had them fail twice on me (once I think to lightning... to be fair). Still, it is a great safety and convenience tool. I agree with those who believe that it is too heavily relied on, but it has many positives which make it pretty hard to leave home for me.
> 
> 4) Autopilot. If youa re going to do any long distance sailing, I cannot imagine going without a windvane or autopilot (the latter having both its positives and negatives). I believe one of the two is a must. A windvane is prefered by many offshore sailors as it requires no power and does better in storms. The autopilot is preferred by many because it account for XTE and interfaces with a Chartplotter to make passages a breeze. They each have their positives and negatives, not to mention costs.
> 
> 5) EPIRB. Don't leave home without it.
> 
> 6) Solar/Wind generation. You are required to run lights at night, your electronics draw considerable power, even the bilge pump will pull 5 amps/day. Since most boats are limited in their capacity to incorporate many batteries (with 2-4-D's being typical), you have about 24-48 hours max without power regeneration of some type. Solar and wind can vastly increase the amount of time away from mechanical power generation. We did not have solar or wind on our 380, but we had a diesel generator. Solar is better - much better.
> 
> 7) Refrigeration. This is not a necessity. I understand that. But I want to enjoy my time at sea, and not live off of dried foods and can foods. I want to enjoy my time at anchor (where you spend 99% of your time) as the same.
> 
> 8) Tankage. Lots of it, both water and fuel. Each person must consume in water 1/2 gallon-day in normal circumstances or you will dehydrate. However, when sitting in the hot sun of the tropics or working a winch or doing other strenuous activities, that number will go up considerably. You also have to have some water to cook. You have to have some water to wash your hands before cooking and hopefully after you use the restroom. You have to use your main for power regeneration and to motor through some storms and to get off a lee shore, and to go down the ICW, etc. Tankage has to be a serious concern.
> 
> 9) Boat. I believe a boat should be comfortable down below. It is your home, not a weekend vacation where roughing it is fine. It has to have a lot of room for storage of goods and spare parts. I believe in a well-performing boat, boat one that can take a beating in the 5% storms you will encounter. We can discuss this in more depth later.
> 
> 10) Room for a tender. I believe you must have a tender. We ended putting countelss miles on ours. I think the resano for this should be obvious.
> 
> This is not my complete list, but it is a start. It gives you a good idea of my philosophies and what I believe a cruiser (especially a circum) should take. I would apprecaite other's thoughts.
> 
> - CD


*Are you changing the original question ? What your saying now is more what equipment you need to go cruising.*


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## kwaltersmi

Good list CD. Well thought out.

How do you feel about life rafts? 

I'm still not sold on radar as a necessity. I agree they are a nice luxury. However, they draw a lot of power when active. And the shipping lane example you gave about the ships bearing down on you and changing course at the last moment was because they were using radar, not because you were. So a radar REFLECTOR might be more valuable as a safety tool, though I've heard their effectiveness is debateable too.

I'm on the fence with EPIRB's too for circumnavigating and bluewater passagemaking. I believe that if you choose to circumnavigate and/or make a major bluewater passage you need to be fully confident in your sailing and survival skills and not rely one bit on rescue from others. If your EPIRB signal is being emitted, you've encountered a major problem and you're likely too far from help for it to matter in the immediate future. But I could be wrong. I'm a bit jaded about EPIRB's after having read Steve Callahan's book Adrift. His EPIRB didn't help and he was constantly rationing it's battery life.


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## rayncyn51

Cynthia and I are relative newbies to sailing. Our goal is to learrn the ropes here in the Chesapeake, cruise the East Coast, then maybe do some island hopping. Sane people would say that we are too old, we don't have enough money, our boat is older than our kids, and that it's nowhere near capable of crossing an ocean. So be it. We say we're not getting any younger, there is never enough money so we are lowering our expectations, the old boat keeps the water on the outside, I can pretty much fix everything else. And we're not planning to cross any oceans. So we are going, as soon as we can, with whatever we have on hand at the time.


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## imagine2frolic

rayncyn51,

That's the spirit I am talking about......BEST WISHES in going *SOON!*


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## tommays

Well

Saftey stuff and when you wear it is mandated on race boats buy the A B C that defines the risk of a race from a day sail in a bay to open water 

And the amount of training and required stuff is going up every year to the point of boats no longer being able to afford the required stuff


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## Izzy1414

imagine2frolic said:


> Go with what you have, and while you have your health.......BEST WISHES in sailing into adventure......i2f


I'm not sure why this discussion between going now or waiting until we can afford something better keeps coming up. Why would we treat sailing any differently than other aspects of life. We didn't wait until we could afford a Cadilac before we bought our first car. If we waited for the perfect mate to come along we'd all be single. I don't imagine Smack waited til he could afford fine aged scotch before he took his first drink......anyway, the point is, we all love to sail or we wouldn't be here. As with everything else in life, our choices in sailing equipment is always going to be a tradeoff between what we can afford and where and how we want to sail. The amount we can afford will always dictate the where and how somewhat but it shouldn't dictate whether or not we go at all. As to whether we subscribe to the KISS theory or have to have all the bells and whistles on our boats probably has more to with personalities than economics. Even with inexpensive dinghies there is a wide range of how they are outfitted and where their skippers are willing to take them. Some of us like to push the envelope and some of us like to stay neatly sealed inside. Niether is wrong

Sorry, CD, You were probably thinking more in terms of actual outfitting when you started the thread but you did use the "P" word (philosophy) and that gives me license.


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## Cruisingdad

There are no wrong answer in this thread as I think they all relate to each other.

The philosophy I am talking about is much about the equipment, as the comfort level, as the safety comfort level, as the boat. Your philosophy on cruising and where your comfort level is.

SOMe adhere to the get me out there on the water asap, I will take minimal precautions with my life and live very meagerly. If the ship goes down, she goes down. On the other end of the spectrum is the: I want every device known to mankind for safety and where is my satelite television!! I have seen both.

It is also a discussion of gear. What gear do you feel is an absolute mandatory? What is optional? What would you not take if it was given to you?

It is your philosophy on cruising, and in reality on life. I think it would be interesting to see different people's philosophy on this matter and how that affected their choices in what they took, their regrets, and what they would change looking back. For example, we did not have a watermaker. We REALLY rationed water. It was kinda tough with a kid, but we managed. Now, looking back, I would get a watermaker if at all possible. Same with an SSB... having that free communication with the outside world would sure have been nice!!!!

On the other hand, we invested in a diesel generator. In all disclosure, I have done so again. but I learned that we really did not run her that much (but when we did, MAN WAS IT NICE!!!). Where before I went I prioritized a generator high on my list so that I could sit in the Tortugas of the World and have Air conditining (like I assume deveryone else did), I get there and you really don't need it. We would run it to charge the batts or cool off the boat when it was raining, but that was about it unless we were feeling really adventurous!!!!!

What are other's thought?? I would like to here Imagine2Frolic's too. That would be a great perspective (from a cheap ole mulithuller... but we won't hold that against him!!).

Brian


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## Cruisingdad

kwaltersmi said:


> Good list CD. Well thought out.
> 
> How do you feel about life rafts?
> 
> I'm still not sold on radar as a necessity. I agree they are a nice luxury. However, they draw a lot of power when active. And the shipping lane example you gave about the ships bearing down on you and changing course at the last moment was because they were using radar, not because you were. So a radar REFLECTOR might be more valuable as a safety tool, though I've heard their effectiveness is debateable too.
> 
> I'm on the fence with EPIRB's too for circumnavigating and bluewater passagemaking. I believe that if you choose to circumnavigate and/or make a major bluewater passage you need to be fully confident in your sailing and survival skills and not rely one bit on rescue from others. If your EPIRB signal is being emitted, you've encountered a major problem and you're likely too far from help for it to matter in the immediate future. But I could be wrong. I'm a bit jaded about EPIRB's after having read Steve Callahan's book Adrift. His EPIRB didn't help and he was constantly rationing it's battery life.


Unless you have no value for your own life and do not care for the feelings of the family you leave behind, you have a responsibility to carry an EPIRB and take the basic precautions to preserve your life as you can. That is my philosophy. Other may differ, but I doubt few people that even go out without an EPIRB would not have pulled it when their ship went down. Keep that in mind.

Regarding the Liferaft, I will show you a pic:










I had it and hated lugging that thing around. It was a $5,000 pain in the but. But I have kids and I have a responsibility to them to do everything possible to be safe. If I wer eprimarily coastal, NO WAY I would buy it. THey are expensive, require lots of maintenance, are hard to see by, etc. Still, it is one of those things that you look back on and say, "Man am I glad I wasted $5,000 on that and never even used it." The alternative ain't so pretty.

Regarding the Radar Reflector, in my opinion, it should be required of EVERY boat that leave goes to sea, right along with life jackets. They are not expensive and can save multiple lives and property. I did not include everything in my list - but that was especially an oversight.

Brian


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## mrwuffles

kwaltersmi said:


> Good list CD. Well thought out.
> 
> How do you feel about life rafts?
> 
> I'm still not sold on radar as a necessity. I agree they are a nice luxury. However, they draw a lot of power when active. And the shipping lane example you gave about the ships bearing down on you and changing course at the last moment was because they were using radar, not because you were. So a radar REFLECTOR might be more valuable as a safety tool, though I've heard their effectiveness is debateable too.
> 
> I'm on the fence with EPIRB's too for circumnavigating and bluewater passagemaking. I believe that if you choose to circumnavigate and/or make a major bluewater passage you need to be fully confident in your sailing and survival skills and not rely one bit on rescue from others. If your EPIRB signal is being emitted, you've encountered a major problem and you're likely too far from help for it to matter in the immediate future. But I could be wrong. I'm a bit jaded about EPIRB's after having read Steve Callahan's book Adrift. His EPIRB didn't help and he was constantly rationing it's battery life.


I see where you and CD are coming from, for what Steve Callahan was doing the EPIRB was useless because he was in the absolute middle of the ocean, if you are within a few hundred miles of shore you have a way way way better chance of being picked up. My grandmother used to own a southern cross 35 or 39 and was on her way from Bermuda to NY to visit. I was too young to remember but my dad got a phone call asking if my grandmother was supposed to be pulling her EPIRB and if he was aware she was in trouble, we did not so they sent a Greek freighter to pick 'em up. With out that EPIRB they could have easily lost there livee, my grandmother and step-grandfather. He was sick and she knew nothing about the diesel which had failed them. But you cannot live life with out a little risk. If everyone was too cautious Smacky would not have any BFS to read and there would be no thrill in sailing IMHO. I think you have to find the perfect balance between being over equipped and overly cautious which can take the fun out of certain things. But if you are under equipped such as an ocean crossing with only food and water and sails which is why people get killed. But then again this isn't a veteran blue water sailor that is saying these things.


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## tommays

One of are big ones is a MOB pole that has to have a fast launch mount on the stern 


A full crew PLB system (personal location beacon) requirement has become a hot topic as a high cost requirement


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## xort

I'm on the fence about the life raft. We won't be going very far off shore. The longest I anticipate would be Cape May NJ to Block Island RI. We'll wait for settled weather when doing that. Perhaps across the Bay of Maine to Nova Scotia. Other than that, all island hopping, coastal cruising. Yea, anything can happen but what are the chances of really needing it. EPIRB, yes for sure.


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## PBzeer

With 3 summers of lake sailing under my belt, I bought Aria. Since that time, I have gone (with crew) from Texas to Tampa, and since then, I have been singlehanding (from Tampa as far north as Annapolis, back to the Keys and then back to North Carolina). No offshore, or even coastal experience (tides, currents), nor any training. What I had, was a desire to do what I wanted, as much in the manner I wanted to, as possible.

I could have waited a few more years, had more money (and wouldn't have to be working right now), but I would have lost those 3 years, as well as not met all the folks that I have as I've traveled. For myself, this is what I want to do, until I'm unable to do it any longer. As my first signature line said:

_Within a dream, we may live a fantasy,
But never within a fantasy, will we live a dream.

_That pretty well sums up my philosophy.


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## Headcase

Well for what it's worth here's my nickle in the juke-box,

What I want:
A working head. It's a much better and safer option than over the rail, and the bucket thing is just nasty.

A self-steering setup. even if it's just a sheet to line rig. Gonna be plenty of times I need to be away from the Helm to get things done.

Coffee maker.

Bookshelves. Love to read almost as much as I love Jazz.

Sound system. Don't need to be fancy. And if it fails, well the i-pod in my head will kick in. 

Solid hull and rig. The best safety net is a good boat. 

What I'm not worried about, but I'd like.

A destination. It gives you some impetus to get going and set your lines straight. But "The point of the Journey is not to arrive".

Radar. It sucks a bilge-load of juice, but if it even once keeps me from being run over....

A refrigerator. Would be nice, But I have no problems subsisting off of PB and 'taters. Plenty of dried' canned good to leaven it out.

A HAM rig. Makes it cheap to talk to my parental units, and if you can receive it, there's a net for just about everything.


Things I really don't care if I have or not. 

Liferaft/epirb. It's just me. If I screw the pooch and wind up sinking my own boat, why shouldn't I pay the price for it?

Speed. I want to be in a given place in a hurry, sailing probably won't get me there in the most expeditious manner.


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## eryka

A gentleman on another sailing board replied to a question about how your know when you're ready for bluewater by saying "You're ready when you're ready to go without insurance." That one pithy statement basically describes our philosophy about safety equipment & tools. (Disclaimer: we have no dependent parents, no kids, no cat, no dog, not even a houseplant) 

Second disclaimer: 12 years of serious bigger-boat sailing experience, US East Coast, Caribbean, Great Lakes, ours and OPB, mostly coastal with some bluewater. Our first destination when we take off this autumn is Bahamas so no radar but 2 reflectors (mostly day hops, little fog), lots of water/fuel tankage, no liferaft, stout boat, jacklines & MOB pole. Our biggest safety feature is an oversized anchor with 100 feet of chain - i.e., wait for settled weather, no schedule.


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## tommays

The liferaft thing shocks me a bit as most of my distance racing starts in western LIS and does not go futher than Block Island or the Vineyard 

A liferaft has been required as long as i can remenber and i dont know anybody with bigger boat dollars that even thinks twice about it


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## imagine2frolic

IZZY,

I have to agree with you neither way is wrong, and that was my point.

CD,

Which specific thoughts would you like for me to express? I was trying to express that with a small boat, and a small amount of money. You can have just as much fun as a big boat.

A large boat, and the funds to care for it is what suits me now. I am much older, ache, not quite so nimble, and not quite so strong either, so the cat suits me now. I would do it all over again in Frolic if need be.


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## smackdaddy

Izzy1414 said:


> I don't imagine Smack waited til he could afford fine aged scotch before he took his first drink......


Damn straight Izzy! I was 6 years old, drinking Benadryl like Kool-Aid AND driving a freakin' Cadillac! And just look at me now!


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## Cruisingdad

imagine2frolic said:


> IZZY,
> 
> I have to agree with you neither way is wrong, and that was my point.
> 
> CD,
> 
> Which specific thoughts would you like for me to express? I was trying to express that with a small boat, and a small amount of money. You can have just as much fun as a big boat.
> 
> A large boat, and the funds to care for it is what suits me now. I am much older, ache, not quite so nimble, and not quite so strong either, so the cat suits me now. I would do it all over again in Frolic if need be.


Now that you have cruised, both large and small, which equipment would you take, not take, consider essential, and only put on board if you had the money?

Brian


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## Izzy1414

Cruisingdad said:


> Now that you have cruised, both large and small, which equipment would you take, not take, consider essential, and only put on board if you had the money?
> 
> Brian


Or what would you find a way to put on board even if you didn't have the money? BTW i2f, I agree with you whole heartedly, It's just hard for me to see why there's ever an argument about it. Maybe that just puts us in the same camp. I'll take that.

Doug


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## NCountry

Hmmmmm...Why Wait? What's my philosophy? Now, there's a topic I can address.

First - background. Ever wonder what happened to some of those musicians you saw on the club circuits. They were "the band" that night and once finished they hit the road for another town. 
They were the guys that you never heard of that opened for that big act that was your favorite band and they were the guys that everyone called "the roadies". I'm one of those guys. It was a wonderful experience and I never want to do it again. I started sailing when I was 10. Of course while traveling as a musican I didn't get on a boat but about 5 years ago a sailboat came back into my life. At the time I thought it was an accident. I'm not absolutely convinced that god sent me that boat. In fact, my life is a long list of miracles and I have the big guy upstairs to thank for each and every one of them.

Once gone I don't want to have to work. I'm so lazy that I'm running 4 different business's right now in order to make sure I don't have to work in a few more years. It takes time to do that but I'm working my tail off to accomplish it.

I have 4 kids. The two oldest are step-sons from a previous marriage but I have guardianship of them. (Not going to get into the bio-parents turned into worthless pieces of C*** discussion) I'm gonna make sure they graduate high-school before we're out of here. They'll be elgible for every kind of grant and loan out there for college if they decide to go. The two younger ones? I think the educational system is quickly going to hell and it won't be long before the public school system will become worthless. We'll home school them and they'll be better off for it.

Bigger boat with "most" of the equipment? (see 4 kids) We need room for the crew. However, all that extra crew will sure come in handy at times. I think there are some things that will make it possible for me to provide a little better for the safety of the Admiral and crew. As a husband, father and the man of the house this is my responsibility. EPIRB and liferaft, expensive? YES! But these are just some of the items I feel a responsibility to provide in the best interest of my crew (family).

Why go? God put a big beautiful world out there! I think we have an obligation to explore it and I think I have an obligation to show it to the kids. The book Jonathan Livingston Seagull may be pretty descriptive of how I feel about what we're supposed to do with the time we have on this earth.

Dang, my post turned out a lot shorter than I thought it would! Fair winds and full sails to all!


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## Cruisingdad

NCountry said:


> Hmmmmm...Why Wait? What's my philosophy? Now, there's a topic I can address.
> 
> First - background. Ever wonder what happened to some of those musicians you saw on the club circuits. They were "the band" that night and once finished they hit the road for another town.
> They were the guys that you never heard of that opened for that big act that was your favorite band and they were the guys that everyone called "the roadies". I'm one of those guys. It was a wonderful experience and I never want to do it again. I started sailing when I was 10. Of course while traveling as a musican I didn't get on a boat but about 5 years ago a sailboat came back into my life. At the time I thought it was an accident. I'm not absolutely convinced that god sent me that boat. In fact, my life is a long list of miracles and I have the big guy upstairs to thank for each and every one of them.
> 
> Once gone I don't want to have to work. I'm so lazy that I'm running 4 different business's right now in order to make sure I don't have to work in a few more years. It takes time to do that but I'm working my tail off to accomplish it.
> 
> I have 4 kids. The two oldest are step-sons from a previous marriage but I have guardianship of them. (Not going to get into the bio-parents turned into worthless pieces of C*** discussion) I'm gonna make sure they graduate high-school before we're out of here. They'll be elgible for every kind of grant and loan out there for college if they decide to go. The two younger ones? I think the educational system is quickly going to hell and it won't be long before the public school system will become worthless. We'll home school them and they'll be better off for it.
> 
> Bigger boat with "most" of the equipment? (see 4 kids) We need room for the crew. However, all that extra crew will sure come in handy at times. I think there are some things that will make it possible for me to provide a little better for the safety of the Admiral and crew. As a husband, father and the man of the house this is my responsibility. EPIRB and liferaft, expensive? YES! But these are just some of the items I feel a responsibility to provide in the best interest of my crew (family).
> 
> Why go? God put a big beautiful world out there! I think we have an obligation to explore it and I think I have an obligation to show it to the kids. The book Jonathan Livingston Seagull may be pretty descriptive of how I feel about what we're supposed to do with the time we have on this earth.
> 
> Dang, my post turned out a lot shorter than I thought it would! Fair winds and full sails to all!


Good post Roady...

Brian


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## imagine2frolic

What I will be taking is what came with the boat. 

Radar does come in handy, but I would not buy it to leave. 

I have 4 GPS. 2 handheld, 1 wall mounted, and one usb port Maptech. 

I have an EPIRB, but it came with the boat also. I would not buy one if money was tight.

A 170gl. watermaker came with the boat, and I truly appreciate it. Once again if money was tight I would not buy one. I have a large bimini that will catch water. There is a hole in the rear bulkhead where a hose funnels down to 6 5gl. cans that we can fill quickly. We carry 180 gallons of water, and that will go a long way with only 2 people.

I have a small 2k Honda generator that fulfills our needs plus some. This I would want no matter what. It is perfect for power tools. I have fixed a hole in my bow when I was hit in the middle of the night. This while at anchor, and I painted the boo boo too.

Solar & wind to me is a necessity. They served me well during our cruising. 4 6amp solars, and a KISS wind generator served our needs.

We have refridgeration with a small ice box. It will make 6 trays of cubes in several hours in the Caribbean. I would not want to do without this, but I would if it made a difference of me leaving, or not.

We have a house freezer that's 2.1 cubic feet, and this will run off of an inverter with the motors running. For a couple of years we used this successfully running it in the middle of the day for a couple of hours. Of course this varied if we had to motor from spot to spot. This I can take, or leave, but it is nice being able to carry more than a month's worth of meat. Before I bought the house freezer we did use the little one by repackaging all meats, and stuffing the poor thing like a turkey.

SSB is great for getting weather, but I would leave without one.

I have been carrying around this sextant since 92, and have never learned to use it. This time I will take it with us, and use it properly as a tool for navigation. Hopefully soon the GPS will be just a backup.

My harness goes where I go. I love my harness it saved my life. I was thrown off my boat as I typed before, and then drug back up onto the house.

Extra sails are needed. I will start with recent headsails, and a new main. Keeping the old main as a backup. I do have a couple of old headsails already, and 2 spinnakers of different sizes.

Barometer is useful if there is no SSB to gather weather.

I carry no life raft, because my boat will be the most stable life raft I can have. Plus it is all wood with collision bulkheads. The deck, roof, and side walls to the windows all carry 1 1/2" floating insulation.

What I want is to build a sailing dink just in case the boat burns to the waterline, and I need to sail out of there.

Paper charts for intended destinations with detail. Paper charts for passages of oceans with a wee bit of detail. This in case the laptop dies. I love the chart plotter, becuase of it's instant knowledge. I did Mexico with GPS, and paper. Paper charts a must, and chart plotter a luxury.

Frolic taught me how to get by with nearly nothing. I had no windlass, watermaker, chart plotter, refridgeration of any kind. I had radar, because S.F. Bay can be pea soup in the summer. It did allow me to sail around weather a couple of times, and pick out a reef in a dire situation.

NEEDED

paper charts
sextant
GPSs
large water tankage,
extra sails
2k generator
manual windlass
autopilot
harness
proper PFD's
/ what am I forgetting?

If I had the money I would buy a liferaft, sea anchor, and drouge. I wouldn't add anything else, and as you can read I can do without many of the luxuries, at least luxuries to me, that are now on board.

Imagine was built with no access to shorepower. She had no hot water heater. There is a funnel in the vanity to pour hot water from a tea kettle into a seperate shower tank for a warm shower. She was built to be on the hook, and to have very few needs for power.

She is large, but she is a simple & modest boat. I like it that way Even her crane to hoist the dink is only a 1" piece of stainless tubing that attaches to the main halyard. I am sure more will come to mind......i2f


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## Cruisingdad

Hmmm, I will try and comment on a few things too:

Davits: We have always had them. We have them now. We almost NEVER put the tender on davits. It flops all around offshore, even worse in the ICW when a sportfish goes by on half plane, and at anchor when the sun goes down you are too freaking tired.

Dink: RIb has been the best, and I have owned all of them (Rib, roll-up, HPIB). However, hauling that hunk of fiberglass around (especially up the davits) is such a PITA that once again, we hated doing it. We elected, with all its tradeoffs, for a HPIB Hypalon. In theory it planes out like a RIB. In practice, unless lightly loaded, it does not. In theory it handles like a RIB. In practice, it is squirelly on a plane. In theory it is easy to hoist and to deflate and handle. THAT IS TRUE. Still, I think the RIB may still be the best boat for a cruiser. We did pull our RIB 99% of the time. Many people do not. We have been caught offshore with it in a storm and it was not fun. We pulled the plug out of our dink. It had a one way valve. They work prety well, supriingly (until the valve gets old or filled with barnacles or junk). 

Boasun's chair: I would try to take one with me... but not the end of the world if you did not. I have gone up on a board with holes. Not fun. Had to clean my shorts a couple of times, but you can do it. Still, having a good chair to stick a bunch of tools with you is great.

Tools, tools, tools, tools. We prepped by putting all the tools on our boat at the marina and everytime we needed something, buying it or bringing it from home and keeping on the boat. Got quite an assortment then. Extas do not hurt of screw drivers and ratchets as they somehow have an attraction to water (especially when up the mast).

Brian


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## Cruisingdad

I2f: Good list, btw. I hope this information is good for the members too.

Brian


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## imagine2frolic

I once witnessed a boat coming out of the inlet in St. Augustine. She about 45+ft, and had her dink on a davit. The dink was being dunked into the waves. My question is how much suction force is this transfered to the mounting of the davit?

Imagine has a grated platform for the dink to sit, and we have never had a problem with the dink moving even in some snotty bouncy weather.

I have had 2 Zodiacs. One with 4 boards for the floor, and a flat bottom. It bucked, and wandered. The second has an inflatable keel, but it wasn't much better.

The third was a 9ft. Caribe with no floor, and it was sweet. The fourth, and current dink is a 12ft. Caribe with anchor locker, and a floor. It's a wee bit heavy for the wife, and I to bring aboard. I have to wrestle the thing. The 9ftr. I could deply, and bring back up onto the sterns alone......i2f


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## kwaltersmi

Dinks: I've had a Quicksilver 8' inflatable, 10' Zodiac RIB, and an 8' Sand Piper. The Sand Piper has no inflation and is rather like a Walker Bay. 

They all have their pluses and minuses. Without a rigid bottom, the inflatables don't track worth a damn and don't feel that well when "on plane". The RIB's are better under power. The biggest benefit I see to any dink with inflation is stability for passengers while loading, unloading and riding. The biggest drawback is that they don't row well, which is a big turn-off for me.

The pure rigid boats like the Sand Piper and Walker Bay, along with more traditional glass or wood dinks (prams, etc.) row very well and can even be fit with a sail/rudder kit for fun while on the hook or in port. They're not as stable, but I like the option of rowing and the durability provided with no pop-able inflatable chambers.


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## blt2ski

In this time of my life, ie today, I am wanting/looking for a well built boat for the application. Not a inch thick hull to sail the lower roaring 40's mind you, but what will suffice right now in puget sound. 

Speed to be reasonable. along with reasonable interior. Not melges 32 fast, nothing interior, but not Westsnail 32 interior sluglike performance in 5-10knot winds which is common in the summer. But one that will also handle the 30-35knot gales not too uncommon in the winter, with 3-5 even some 6' waves in worst conditions. SO using PHRF ratings as a guide, for a 33-36' boat like I want for next one, a M32 is int he low 20's, Westsnail IIRC is 250'ish,, something in the 80-110 range would be nice. Boats that appeal to me include, X34, 35, Dehler 34r, J109, Jeanneau SF32/35/37, sf3200, Doufour 34e among others. Or If I could afford a 10.5M Guilietta, even better yet! Anyway, this style of boat. 

Which, would in turn, turn into a fin keel boat boat, reasonably light displacement, higher SA/Disp ratio, 22 to 25-1 under max sail, but easy to reduce when it blows! Either by reefing and/or reducing jib size.

Reasonable power to fight the upwards of 5-8 knot currents in some of the areas. but do not expect it to handle the mid teen currents up in the northern inland waterway tween Vancouver island and the main land. 

Not worried about radar in this part of the world, altho on foggy days, would be nice, but those are far and few, but common enough to want radar at times. Paper charts work fine, GPS at some helps..........

Reasnable water, fuel etc, but usually in my area I am not more than 3-5 hrs from a marina where I can get any and all I want! 

IF I was offshore, a bit longer boat, but probably still similar boat in design, but a bit beefier build.Possibly a bit less draft for the length than for local sailing. My feeling is a boat that is PHRF rated a minute to two minutes faster vs a westsnail, will net me 3-5+ days sooner from Here, ie NW US to Hawaii! A melges, probably another day or so shaved off. While I like sailing, why take 3 weeks to get to hawaii when you can do it in 2, and have less potential issues with larger gales/storms. 

Appropriate self steering, with a manual line control backup. Battery pack, water, reasonable fuel for powering and recharge if need be via genset, ie smaller than larger, Probably a wind/solar gen of some sort if off shore. Local, who cares. See above!

Skip the AC and equal BS. Not bimini's or equal either. Too much windage and not enough outside visiblity to what is going one. This is no matter where I am at.

Dinghy wise, around here, hard to say, hard dinghys have a place in our oyster/muscle shelled/barnicled rocky shores, But with my current 30'r, one needs to tow it. An inflatable is nice in that you can get some where, anchor and attempt to row to shore etc. Choose your poison, not right or wrong answer. Agree with all the above plus's and minus's of dinghy choices. 

My 02, not that .02 is worth much these days. 

marty


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## camaraderie

OK...disclosure first. Sailed for 30 years on LIS and Chesapeake with a couple of minor offshore passages during that time. Retired and sold everything and sailed with my spouse for 6 years from Maine to Grenada and everything in between. Lived aboard first on 44ft. Irwin then on 52ft. Tayana ketch with all passages made double handed.

First...we had a 25 year plan to make & save $$, raise our family, retire early and go sailing. We were fortunate in our circumstances and choices and were able to follow through on the plan. Our plan also included preparation for the voyaging in increasing tests of our capabilities, lots of readings and seminars so that we did not just have the financial side to complete. 
In terms of personal philosophy... I believe that when you bring kids into the world you assume a responsibility for their education and well being and development as your FIRST responsibility. I see nothing wrong with going sailing with younger children, and homeschooling them as long as you are capable of single handing in all conditions since one adult must take care of the kids. I disagree with the notion that teenagers should be taken sailing as I think this robs them of many possibilities for personal development and acheivments and that most parents cannot provide that level of education in science and math. In short....I think going with teenagers is selfish...so our plan was to go when our last child graduated high school rather than "NOW". Of course we recognized that things could happen with kids and parents and health to nuke that plan...but it was the right decision for us. Having that much time to plan and save also allowed us to completely pay off our house and save for a cruising lifestyle where we would not have to skimp on anything or feel like we were camping our for years on end. We did not want to have to EVER come back to land because of financial concerns. 
And I did not want to EVER have to work again. (Looking back now...that would have been simply awful to contemplate after going cruising.)
Lest anyone think that was an EASY thing to do, I will just say that I worked for 30 years at a minimum of 70 hours a week.

We knew that our Hirsch/Irwin44 was NOT the boat to take on ocean passages when we set out...but we had owned her on the Chesapeake for several years and upgraded her for cruising and we thought it best to start our on her rather than make a big investment and possibly a big mistake since we only thought we'd like the cruising lifestyle. As it turned out...we loved the lifestyle and the boat was great for the coast and the Bahamas..but we wanted a sturdier boat with a bit more size for the Caribbean. We were looking at boats in the 46-47 foot range when we found the Tayana52. Our Criterea as MUST haves were:

46'-50' Bluewater build quality and medium to heavy displacement.As many know...JeffH and I part company on this issue but I believe their is no substitute for length and weight (on a good hull design) when it comes to comfort and safety at sea. I prefer medium displacement but would take heavy over light!
Center Cockpit- makes living so much nicer with an aft cabin. Love it on deck too.
Skeg hung rudder- protction and redundancy for strength
Mast of less than 65' and no more than 6ft. keel depth.- for ICW and Bahamas
No major problem areas on survey and engine in GOOD shape with less than 3000 hours. - didn't want any more projects or surprises at sea.
Fit our budget as a sea ready boat- purchase price + refit $$ needs.
Less important criteria would help us choose between boats. As it turned out, there was very little that met our initial criteria and we ended up with a Tayana that was sound but needed a significant investment of time and $$ to make right. Note that we did not worry about keel type, instruments, ketch vs. sloop or cutter. We happened across Mr. Perry's 52 footer as a ketch on the internet and thought the mast height and depth were a typo since the sloops were too high and too deep. As it turned out...there was no typo...and we bought the boat. PERFECT!

Now as to what *we *considered mandatory equipment for *OUR* full time cruising on a big boat in comfort and safety (in no particular order):

*A subtaintial and reliable dual anchoring system*. Hooks we didn't have to worry about. All chain 300' rode on one anchor. Reliable windlass.
*A mainsail system we could handle and EASILY reef* at sea in safety. For us this was a Schaeffer boom furler but a Stack Pack with easy car system would be fine as well.
Furlers on jib and staysail. The idea is to stay in the cockpit in heavy weather.
*Jacklines and tethers*...always in use at sea.
*A good dinghy* and motor. (Caribe RIB for coral protection and stability) Very important at anchor! *MUST fit on deck*... no davits at sea for me.
A large battery bank and means of keeping it charged up. First boat was passive (160watts Kyocera's + 4 winds wind generator), Tayana came with an 8kw generator. (We came to love it) We used about 150ah's a day with 75-100ah's devoted to refrigeration.
*Epirp and liferaft *and satphone for emergency use.
Self Tailing winches. Allows single handed sailing.
*Reliable and powerful self steering* auto pilot. (Simrad hydraulic assisted) (Windvane is an altrernative for open ocean cruising)
*SSB*...with pactor/sailmail *for weather* and e-mail and cruiser communication. Just a receiver
*GPS + two battery backups* in storage with lots of batteries for emergencies. (We ended up with 5 total!)
*Depth Sounder and paper charts. *
Radar...not essential down south but much needed up north. Helpful everywhere and particularly on passage at night.
A full cockpit enclosure/bimini. Protected us in harsh conditions at sea and added a "living room" at anchor during inclement weather. Protection from the sun which is unbearable.
Refrigeration- a must have for us.
Air Conditioning - a must have when at the dock. Not really needed at anchor but we used it to cool down the boat while charging our batteries at anchor. No sense letting that power go to waste!
Now please understand I am not suggesting that anyone needs all this stuff to go cruising. This is just what we would not consider cruising without. I have put in bold those things I think NO ONE should consider cruising bluewater without. 
Likewise...I expect our views on waiting to go and on child rearing will not find universal acceptance. But.. they worked for us and have been discussed here before. I merely offer them as part of CD's request for various philosophies to be laid out.

Cruising means different things to different people. You have to find the niche that appeals to you and do it in a way that makes sense to you. Some of our best friends sailed small boats to far places and lived on the fish and conch they caught and very small budgets. Others lived only in marinas in "condo" boats. Some just sailed the snowbird route each year between FL/Bahamas and points north. Others only sailed 6 months a year. Some took a couple of years off from work and then went back. Others circumnavigated. There's no "right" way...only what's right for you and your family.


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## Sequitur

*My Disclosure:* Edi and I plan to sail off over the horizon in mid-August. This will be the culmination of an idea that first entered my mind in the mid 60s while messing about in my first sailboat. I was in the Royal Canadian Air Force then, serving with Search and Rescue in Comox, on Vancouver Island. But the spectacular mountains on both sides of the Strait of Georgia soon distracted me from sailing, and my spirit of adventure was instead quenched by exploratory and expeditionary mountaineering. Over the next twenty years my hunger for adventure took me to hundreds of summits, including over six dozen first-ascents on four continents.

But my thoughts of sailing around the world never left. I transferred to the Navy in 1969, where I was eventually granted my Bridge Watchkeeping Certificate and was later granted a Certificate of Service as Master, Foreign-Going. During my many voyages, I crossed the Pacific and the equator six times each. My last few years in the Navy were spent in the training system, including designing and implementing leadership programs for junior officers using mountaineering and ocean canoeing as vehicles.

But my thoughts of sailing around the world would not be stilled. In 1981, at the age of 36, I resigned my naval officer's commission, bought a boat, moved aboard and began making plans to sail off. However, during my fit-out, I met a woman...

Fast-forward through a number of boats to the spring of 2006, that woman and I were still together, a quarter century had passed since I had retired and I had not yet sailed off. I told my wife I wanted to sell the canal boat in France, buy another sailboat, fit it out and sail off before I was too old to do it. She had never been comfortable with the idea of sailing too far away from land, and she still didn't want to go. We talked seriously, then we searched for a house for her to buy and I ordered a new boat.

So, the following are my thoughts on selecting and preparing a sailboat for open-ended voyaging. While I fully support the idea to "go early and forget about all the frills", my life charged right on past that timing, so I am left with going while I am still able. Fortunately, I have the means to make that going much more easy and comfortable, so be forewarned that the following thoughts are not without the frills.

*Crew:* Without doubt, the most important criterion in offshore voyaging is a competent, cooperative and compatible crew. Without this, the best equipped and most seaworthy vessel is likely to have difficulty as conditions change, and one of the constants of life at sea is change. Competent crew can take a minimally equipped and barely capable vessel to the ends of the earth.

A year-and-a-half after my ex and I had decided to separate, I began seriously searching for a companion who shared my dream of sailing off. I posted on a couple of internet sites that focus on crew looking for boats / boats looking for crew. After six months of communicating with the many respondents and flying, driving and sailing to meet over a dozen of them, I finally met Edi. We've been together now for just short of a year, and we have yet to have had a disagreement, let alone a spat.

*Boat Selection:* When I first started researching the purchase of another sailboat, I was following the traditional mindset of buying and refitting a used boat that was on the traditionalists' list of "suitable offshore boats". The more I looked, the more I realized the folly of accepting decades-old concepts of what worked and of resigning myself to cramped quarters and poor sailing performance. I had also grown tired of replacing or rebuilding someone else's collection of jury-rigged simulations of their ideas of appropriate. The idea of buying a new boat began to take shape.

*Hull:* After months of analysis, I finally settled on a boat with a hollow-cheeked, rather plumb bow, a broad, squat stern, a fin keel and a detached spade rudder. This new boat with its combination of fine entry and very long relative waterline length seems to be the antithesis of the old idea of an offshore boat with its long overhangs, weak stern, short relative waterline length and a full keel with an attached rudder. But to my thinking, this new design made much more sense than did the "old shoe" concept.

The new boat has broad, deep bilges with ample room to keep the machinery, the tanks and the batteries below waterline, while still providing a few cubic metres of stowage space for such heavy items as tools and spares beneath the cabin soles. With a 1225 Ah house bank, 840 litres of fuel and 486 litres of water, this low weight contributes significantly to the stability provided by the 5,087 kilogram external lead keel and the 2.13 metre draft.

Construction is solid fibreglass below the waterline, with balsa cored topsides and a cored deck. From the keel root forward, there are layers of Kevlar in the lay-up to add to the hull's strength. An interior fibreglass grid bonded to the hull provides further strength.

*Deck:* The twin anchor rollers and twin chain lockers make it easy to stow and set a choice of anchors. The windlass is controlled both at the bow and in the cockpit and it can also be operated manually. Aft of the chain locker is a large sail locker, with ample room for the spinnaker, spare anchors, a sea anchor and a drogue, plus a large assortment of reels of spare line. Aft of the sail locker is a watertight collision bulkhead.

Our primary anchor is a 40 kilogram Rocna on 100 metres of 9.5mm hi-test chain. The secondary is a 20 kilogram Delta with 15 metres of 9.5mm hi-test chain and 80 metres of 19mm nylon. In reserve, we have two Fortress anchors, an FX-55 and an FX-37 and two 150-metre reels of 19mm laid nylon. On the stern rail I have mounted an Ankarolina reel with 70 metres of 3000 kilogram nylon flat rope.

I have mounted a six-man offshore liferaft aft of the mast and have installed a set of Ocean Marine davits to hang our Walker Bay FTD 310 rigid inflatable dinghy off the stern. I installed jacklines on top of each side the coach roof from the cockpit to alongside the mast and a single centreline one from the mast to the bow.

*Cockpit:* This has a large T-shaped layout with twin wheels, a walk-through transom and dedicated tether points. There are six locking cockpit lockers, two locking transom lockers and comfortable cushioned seating for up to twelve. The seats are long enough to lay down on and the drop-leaf Corian table can easily dine six. For protection from the elements, I have installed a dodger and a bimini with roll-up or removable side curtains.

*Rig:* I like the stability and the solidity of the Selden B&R rig. Granted, I cannot play with mast bend, and if I don't have the spinnaker up, I may lose half-a-knot dead down wind because of the swept-back spreaders, but I don't intend racing. I chose the tall rig option with a 21 meter mast height, a self-tacking 21 square metre furling staysail, a 110% furling jib of 48.5 square metres, an in-mast furling main of 62 square metres and a 150 square metre asymmetrical spinnaker. With everything led aft, normally the only need to go to the foredeck while sailing will be to launch and recover the spinnaker or to set the whisker pole on the jib.

*Steering Arrangements:* The twin wheels are connected to the rudder post through a Lewmar Mamba direct drive, and the Raymarine 7002 autopilot, mounted in the transom locker connects to a lever on the rudder post. There is an easily mounted emergency tiller, and I also have an emergency rudder assembly, which mounts to three eyes on the transom. This is stowed in the transom locker.

To reduce power consumption, I have installed a Hydrovane wind steering unit. Among my reasons for choosing this make are its reputation for robustness, its tolerance for off-centre mounting and the fact that it can serve as an additional emergency rudder if needed.

*Energy:* To run the onboard systems, I have a 1225 Ah house bank of flooded golf cart batteries fitted with Water Miser caps. Replenishment comes from the 120 Amp Balmar alternator on the main engine, from the 4 kW Fischer-Panda DC diesel generator, from the 510 W Kyocera solar array above the bimini, from the DuoGen D400 wind generator or if alongside, from the 50 Amp 240 volt, the 50 Amp 120 volt or the 30 Amp 120 volt shore power connection. Similarly, both the generator and main engine batteries can be recharged using any of these.

*Machinery:* I upgraded to the main engine to a Yanmar 4JH4 HTE with 81 kW at 3200 rpm, and changed the propeller to a four-bladed VariProp, relegating the fixed three-blade to the spares locker. To the existing Racor primary fuel filter, I added a pair of Racor filters with isolation switching, so that I can change filters with the engine running. The standard equipment X-Change-R Oil Change System makes routine oil changes a breeze.

The 840 litres of fuel is carried in two separate tanks, each with its own fill, and there is an electric transfer pump between tanks if needed.

The bilge is fitted with a 5,700 LPH automatic pump and a 15,000 LPH high-water pump with an alarm. All of the thru-hulls are easily accessed through two hatches in the cabin sole.

*Electronics:* I installed a Raymarine E-Series chart plotter with a 120 in the cockpit and an 80 in the nav station. Among the Raymarine inputs feeding these are a 1 kW digital depth sounder, a 7002 autopilot with an additional wireless control head, and a 2kW radar in a Waltz swivel mount 10 metres up the mast. I also have an EchoPilot Platinum forward-looking sonar and a SeaCas AIS receiver feeding data to the chart plotter, and I am waiting for the arrival of a new Raymarine AIS class B transceiver.

*Communications:* I upgraded the boats Icom 422 VHF to an Icom 604 class D unit and put a remote access mike in the cockpit. I have kept the 422 as a spare, and have two Icom portable VHFs as back-ups. For long-range communications I installed an Icom 802 SSB with an AT400 tuning the dummy backstay antenna and for email a Pactor II/III usb.

*Workshop:* To save the usual marring and soiling of the galley counter or the dining table, I opted for the workshop/office layout for the starboard aft cabin. It has a 5cm thick slab workbench, which nicely takes my shop vise and the swivel seat certainly makes work more comfortable. The workshop has lots of drawers and cupboards, and there is over a cubic metre of available storage beneath the cabin sole for heavier items. We have removed the mattress from the double berth in the cabin, and we still need to organize how to best utilize all of the storage space there. Being adjacent to the galley, some of it will surely become an extension to our pantry and wine cellar.

*Galley:* I pride myself as a gourmet cook. Among my many lives, I was a wine and food writer and did some instructing in a culinary school, so the galley is very important to me. Sequitur's galley is a joy to work in with its large L-shaped layout and an island across from the stove, providing ample work space and excellent bracing while underway. The strong fiddles around the Corian countertops not only keep things in place, but also provide excellent handholds. There is a deep, double sink, two fridges and two top-loading freezers. The extractor hood, the small hatch and the two opening ports above the stove provide excellent ventilation when the adjacent companionway hatch is closed. The four cupboards, the seven drawers and the full length eye-level shelf provide more storage than we can currently find use for.

*Creature Comforts:* I installed an Espar hydronic diesel furnace, which provides heat and hot water, or in warm weather, hot water only. The hot water tank can also be heated by the main engine, by the generator or by shore power, and it acts as the extra power dump for the wind generator. To replenish the water I have installed a Spectra Newport II watermaker, which can be led to each of the two 243 litre water tanks separately, and the tanks can be isolated or interlinked. The separate shower stall, across the master cabin from the head does wonders to keep the toilet paper dry. The ensuite head with its separate shower stall in the starboard aft cabin will ensure the comfort of our occasional guests, and it provides a quick access for use as a sea head. To add to our comfort, I have installed a Splendide washer/dryer, and have set it up so it can also run off the inverter.

The interior is very spacious, but throughout there is nowhere without a choice of handholds to make safe movement through the boat safe and easy, even in heavy weather. With all of the machinery, tankage, battery banks, tools and spares located beneath the cabin soles, all of the above-sole spaces, including the drawers and cabinets in the salon, the spaces beneath the settees and the berths, are available for easily organized, quick access storage.

*Back Home:* There will always be ties to home and to family, and there will be a desire to occasionally return. Also, at some point, we will all become incapable of safely cruising, so particularly at our age we should have an exit plan. We have easy access to flights with my nearly one million Air Canada points and with Edi's staff pass from her days with the airlines, so family and home visits will be easy.

We both now have our houses on the market and we have bought a loft in an historic building in Vancouver within a short walk of everything we need, including moorage in False Creek and the new rapid transit line to the airport. The loft is great holding property and will be a wonderful home when we eventually decide to slow down.

I've probably missed a few things, but I must get back to getting Sequitur ready.


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## tdw

I'm charting a middle course. I neither need nor want all the stuff that some folk feel is indispensable nor do I yearn for the olden days of cold water showers and no cold drinks.

Whenever I see a post where someone comments on wanting to cruise but not to "camp out" I really do feel some dismay. Unless you have very deep pockets indeed at least on some levels there will always be a level of camping out when it comes to living on a boat. Even if that means gluing your boat to a marina pen. You'll still have to put up with certain lost comforts. Yet, what is so wrong with an element of roughing it in our lives ? It's not as if we are being asked to live under the stars with all our possession strapped to our backs. Figuritively speaking of course. 

If you plan to cruise then you will have to accept that some of shore life's pleasures are going to be denied you. Many of us now take for granted amenities denied the cruiser of 50 years past but still showers will be short and low on pressure, refrigeration will still be a glorified ice box even if it is electric, there will be times when the espresso is not perfecto and the food may not be cordon bleu. Space will always be at a premium compared to even the smallest of apartments and there are going to be times when crawling into a nice warm and dry bed will be denied you. 

Me, I'm happy to pay such prices in order to do want I want to do which is go cruising....live a life that even today, relatively few are ever going to share.......nothing so half worth doing and all that. Oh sure we will tie up to a marina every now and then and take advantage of a town's amenities but for the main part our desire is to anchor out away from the madding crowd. Today may well be spent stuck out in the cockpit wet and cold but tomorrow that golden sunset , that pod of whales, that feeling of sheer bliss to be miles from shore with no land in sight and your boat slipping quietly over the sea. Yes, surely, the gains outweigh the losses. 

So most assuredly for me life on a boat is not merely life on a somewhat unsteady shore, it is life onboard, no more no less. It is not a utopian fantasy, it is not suburbia afloat, nor would any sane person wish it to be.

I know that there have been times onboard when I have been scared witless and that there will times ahead when I'll be quaking in my boots yet again. Such it is. Fingers crossed my little ship and a modicum of seamanship on her crew's part will see me through as she and the other little ships I've sailed on have seen me through in the past. 

On a practical level re equipment and without being silly about it, I could get by with nothing more than the obvious safety gear (including a liferaft) depthsounder, radio(s), log, gps, radar reflector and paper charts. I'll almost certainly add some other things but those are what I consider to be the bare essentials. Dinghy with outboard would be nice as would radar and chartplotter. Probably have a computer.

Comfort wise....electric lights (led) , fans , some form of heating, hot water and refrigeration. Music machine...in this day and age an Ipod presumably. TV/DVD player ? Maybe the computer could do double duty depending on power consumption. Air con definitely not. 

On deck, manual winches will suffice, headsail furler yes, mainsail furler maybe but not a necessity. Dodger, full boat awnings, bimini.

Probably fogotten a few things but I think that just about covers it.


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## wind_magic

I think there are a few basic cruising lifestyles, I have taken the liberty of giving them names.


*WEALTHY *- The cruiser has enough money put away that they are financially independent and can live on investment income without relying on capital gains. The budget includes everything the cruiser considers necessary, the cruiser lives within the budget and the cruiser can essentially spend the rest of their lives cruising, never having to work again.

*INDEPENDENT *- The cruiser has money, not enough to live on the income from investments for the rest of their lives, but enough that they won't run out of money before they die. This cruiser is eating into their principal every minute of the day, but so long as they don't run out before they die they won't ever have to work again. Income from investments are still very important, and the cruiser has to stay within their budget, but they can keep cruising until nature stops allowing it.

*LIMITED *- The cruiser has money, but not enough to live on forever, their lifestyle eats into their principal and how long they can live the life depends on how long they can stretch the remaining cash. The LIMITED cruiser has to make choices, because they can't stay out forever, so they are constantly trading off between working odd jobs to top off the kitty, cutting spending to keep from depleting the kitty, etc. With the LIMITED lifestyle, it does all eventually come to an end, and/or the cruiser will have to keep working or fly home to work, etc, to keep the dream alive.
*WORKING *- The cruiser may or may not have any money, but they continue to work as they cruise so it really doesn't matter, their expenses are more than whatever money they have so there is no choice but to continue working to pay for them.

The ironic thing about the categories above is that they have very little to do with how much money someone has and much more to do with what the person's expectations are for that money. Sure, it's all a lot easier if you have huge amounts of money, but there are plenty of people who have lots of money who are still in the LIMITED category because their appetites are so grand that they can't make it on the money they have no matter how much it is - we've all seen them, huge houses they can't afford, using consumer credit for everything they own, money spent before they even earn it, always short on money and long on debt, etc. When they first post they typical want to know about 40+ foot boats and easy financing. There are also plenty of people who don't have that much money who are WEALTHY, because they manage their money well, they make do with whatever is required to see their dreams through, and they keep to whatever budget they think is appropriate so that they can continue to live within their means.

I don't think it matters as much whether you have 5000k$us or 10k$us, what matters is what your spending habits are in relation to how much money you have. If all you have is 10k$us and you can fetch your own water, eat rice and beans, and sail a small boat that you maintain yourself, great, you are WEALTHY, so *go for it*, nobody is going to get mad if you decide you never want to work again. However, if you are one of those people who spends 1.20$us for every 1$us you earn and there never seems to be anything left at the end of the month, you're probably going to be LIMITED and no matter how much money you have, you could be headed for trouble.

Edit - Disclosure, limited sailing experience, learning as I go along.


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## Cruisingdad

This has turned into an outstanding thread (in my view, at least). It is a great 'Outside Looking In' view for those that consider cruising and the different things to consider. We have both ends of the spectrum here, and many inbetween.

George - Outstanding writeup. Interesting that how close our views are on most things... yet you still have not become an Indepndent!?? THat is Sway's influence, I know it!!! Seriously, thanks for posting the info. It was very, very good.

Sequitor - Well thought out and informative. It will be especially intersting to evaluate how she did afterwards and what you liked/did not like. 

I2f - Thanks for a great contribution to this thread!!! Very, very well thought out and I realize you put a lot of time and effort into this. 

TDW, Wind, Marty, Kwalter, et all - All are great thoughts. A lot of different perspectives to digest for everyone.

I think in all of this there is no right or wrong answer... it is different approaches to the same goal and what did and did not work. Again, great thread.

Brian


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## blt2ski

Rereading my needs. being as I do like to race my boat, that could also be making me choose a boat in the arena of the models listed too. Ie one in the race/cruise category vs a cruiser to performance cruiser. 

This is something that needs to be thought of too when choosing looking for a boat. IE will you have a crew on board, ie 4-6 even 7 or 8 in a boat the size I mentioned, ie 33-36'? or is it just the two of you? maybe a kid or to in the younger stages of life like CD/brian. yes 3 of my 4 kids come along frequently when racing, but with them being 20 and 23.......a bit different scenerio than Brian has with his kids. 

Also, why I want the boat to have sail shortening abilities, so when it is just spouse and I, or should I say me 75%, and her the other 25% doing things, it is easier for me to do by myself. I might add a Jib RF for these occasions, but want the drum removable for when in race mode. So when it is just us doing an across the sound trip to Kingston, dinner, then a sail home....... the SA is managable with just the two of us etc. 

A few other things for folks to think about, when choosing/using a sailboat.

Marty


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## Cruisingdad

I am going to make this a sticky as I feel it will be good information for those who are considering getting into boating, LA, or making long passages. Some great viewpoints.

Brian


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## vega1860

Great thread CD!

My dos centavos (Representing the minimalist end of the spectrum):

_I want to stress that the following is what works for us. It might work for you or, then again, it might not._

We have a small boat, a Vega 27. I have lived aboard and sailed this boat since 1990. Laura joined me in 1996. We have never seen a boat that better meets our needs. Our thinking on equipment is to go with only what is necessary and nothing more. Of course this would be subject to individual interpretation but here is how we see it -

I don't believe that a pressure water system or shower has any place on a serious voyaging boat.

I think refrigeration adds unnecessary complication and draws too much electricity.

I think that a "Light and airy, spacious cabin" is dangerous in a sea boat.

Boat size: As big as one of us can handle alone without any mechanical or power assist; Can the smallest, weakest crew member raise the anchor without using the windlass or set the sails without using a winch?

Big enough to be comfortable living aboard and to hold enough gear and supplies for an extended voyage. Lealea easily holds six months provisions without spilling out of the lockers. We have a water maker, a Power Survivor 40e.

Big enough to entertain? Our boat sleeps two, feeds four and drinks six. Big enough for us.

Boat size and safety: To those who suggest that bigger is safer let me just mention "Titanic" and "Edmund Fitzgerald".

*Dealing with it*

Safety equipment: First let me say that we believe that no amount of money can buy safety. The most important piece of safety equipment is between your ears. It is paramount that all crew members maintain a safety first mindset at all times.

I have heard of some sailors who eschew PFDs and even lifelines. Not us. We rig additional lifelines and jack lines at sea, always wear our inflatable pfd/harnesses on deck and always tether at night or when going forward and we never go forward unless the other crew member is in the cockpit. We carry an EPIRB, man-overboard pole and strobe and a heaving line but Rule 1 is "Don't fall off the boat".

Hand-holds: You can't have too many, inside or out.

We keep our flares, flare gun, parachute flares and smoke markers in a valise screwed to the underside of the lazarette hatch. Also in the valise are two US Navy die markers and a distress marker panel. There is a type III pfd secured to the underside of each of the two cockpit seat locker hatches with stretch cord. (Opening the three hatches with the flare valise and PFDs always impresses the Coasties) 

We carry six fire extinguishers, two in the forward cabin where we sleep when in port or at anchor, two in the main cabin and two in the cockpit.

Our First aid kit is a US Navy item, very complete and well stocked. We have both had extensive first aid training. Every crew member should be able to deal with compound fractures, burns, severe cuts, poisoning and any known medical conditions such as heart problems, diabetes or allergies among the crew.

We both wear a sharp knife on a lanyard at all times at sea and there is a dive knife in a sheath attached to the base of the mast on deck.

We have three manual bilge pumps, all hose connections are double clamped with ss clamps with tapered soft wood plugs handy.

We include ground tackle as safety equipment. We carry two 10kg Bruce anchors and two 25 lb Danforths. The two Danforth anchors and one Bruce have a rode of 50 feet of chain and 250 feet of 1/2 inch three strand nylon rope. The remaining Bruce has 100 feet of 3/8 inch BBB chain and 300 feet of 5/8 inch three strand nylon (This last one does require mechanical advantage to weigh. If necessary we would slip the rode and buoy it). Two boat hooks also come in handy

We do not carry insurance.

Electronics: VHF radio plus one hand-held, depth sounder. That's all folks. When radar systems get smaller and less expensive I may invest in one but for now we'll do without.

Navigation: Best quality compasses possible, two bulkhead mounted and two hand-bearing. Two pairs of good quality 7X50 binoculars. Complete set of paper charts for the planned cruising area plus plotting tools (I like the Jeppeson plotter because I am a pilot. I also use a US Army Artillery plotting square, a steel ruler and traditional dividers. I don't like parallel rulers but you should use what ever tools you are comfortable with). I think you need an almanac but doubt the necessity of a sextant and HO249 tables (Although We do carry them). We carry three hand-held GPS receivers and plenty of batteries. Also tide and current tables and cruising guides like Charlie's Charts etc. The more information we can get about our destination the better. We also use a laptop computer with Maptech software and electronic charts and Google Earth for planning only.

Self steering: We carry a Tiller Pilot which comes in handy while motoring but Lealea has been known to steer herself under sail for up to three days, maintaining her course within ten degrees with just a piece of shock cord from the tiller to a windward cleat.

Spares: We carry enough new rope to replace the running rigging two or three times plus several blocks of various types and a handy billy. I used to carry a spare stay but have come to believe that standing rig failure can be dealt with using rope sufficiently well to reach port where more permanent repairs can be effected. We carry two water pump impellers for the engine and spare filter elements for engine and water maker.

Misc,: We have an electrical repair kit put together for us by an electrician friend cointaining wire of different sizes, an assortment of connectors, tape, tools etc. and a rigging box with spare shackles, clevis pins, cotter pins and monel seizing wire. Laura made a ditty bag for me that holds my marlinspike seamanship stuff. (Consult Hervey Garrett Smith for details) and enough hand tools to deal with anything I am capable of fixing.

Dingy: Difficult to work out with a small boat but essential. I think a two-part nesting dingy would be best but haven't found the right one yet. Hard dingy, oars, no outboard.

While the above may look like just another equipment list, it is actually an expression of our philosophy of self-sufficiency and minimalist cruising in terms of nuts and bolts. I am talking of actual voyaging as a lifestyle; exploring remote places and avoiding the crowds, as opposed to life in the marina. A suitable boat could be bought and fitted out as described above for fifteen thousand dollars. As a couple, cruising and anchoring out, we could manage quite well on six or seven hundred dollars a month without sacrificing comfort or safety to our standards.

A more common view of "Cruising" involves traveling by boat from one marina to the next, perhaps with an occasional sojourn in an anchorage, entertaining aboard, cocktails at the yacht club and dinner at waterfront restaurants. You may want to bring guests along or children. Our way won't work for you. That's fine, it's a big tent. In fact, we are doing a little of both. We like restaurants and cocktails too and are presently comfortably ensconced in a big-city marina while we rebuild our cruising kitty. Our future cruising plans include Alaska, Mexico, the Galapagos, French Polynesia and some of the more remote and lesser known parts of the Pacific.

Our sailing CV:

I have sailed and crewed on sport fishing boats in the Hawaiian islands since 1980. I have lived aboard the Vega 27 "Lealea" since 1990 and with Laura since 1996. Together we have cruised the islands extensively.

We spent our honeymoon as crew members aboard the 151 ft LOA Australian square-rigger "Endeavour" 21 days from Vancouver BC to Kailua-Kona Hawaii. Laura sailed an additional three weeks to Fiji









Laura also crossed the Pacific from San Diego to Nawiliwili, Kauai as delivery crew in the 70 foot traditional wooden schooner "Spike Africa"









And, of course, we sailed Lealea from Honolulu to Neah Bay, WA, then to Port Townsend and Friday Harbor, cruising the San Juans and Channel Islands as far North as Maple Bay, BC before sailing to Seattle where Laura is currently managing a West Marine store.

Video logs
Details of our boat here and here


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## Cruisingdad

Vega,

That was an outstanding write-up. Thank you again for taking the time to do it. I feel it provides an excellent perspective on another way to cruise. Again, this is really a great thread because it provides many different view points and "philosophies" on how to get there and make it work... especially from those that have done it and have made it work.

I hope others will participate and/or feel free to ask questions.

Again, thanks to all,

Brian


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## imagine2frolic

What I loved about cruising was the diversity in the cruiser's themselves. Once again it proves everybody gets through life differently, and no single way is the correct way.......i2f


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## chall03

This is a great thread and it really does explore the ultimate cruising conundrums of how big and with how much stuff. This is something I personally have been trying to figure out for a while now. I have read alot of books and also poked around online, I have seen different extremes and philosophies expressed and I guess ultimately it does really comedown to "whatever works for you....."

Ok my disclaimer: 7 years of sailing. Started out inshore racing, did a bunch of courses before buying a Supersonic 27 that I now cruise on when i can with my wife locally. 
I do still consider myself a newbie with basic coastal/inshore cruising experience, but also have been researching/planning for our bluewater cruise for at least the last 6 3/4 years 

We are planning to take a couple of years off work and sail up the Australian Coast before heading either into the Pacific or up into Asia. 
We are a young couple who simply do not want to wait for retirement to do this. So to make this work we need to do it somewhat Pardey style. That is 'Go small, Go simple, Go now'. This is not a romantic notion for us, it is simply a financial reality.

Having said that we do want to make life as comfortable as we can of course, if there is something that we can afford and we feel that it will add to our enjoyment of the lifestyle we will have it. We do enjoy eating out, so would probably spend a couple of days here and there in Marinas. Both the first mate and I enjoy a hot shower every now and then and don't think this will change during cruising. So Pardey purists would probably consider us anything but minimalist.

The boat? we are looking at something in the mid 30's. Bluewater capable but will not be required to circumnavigate via way of the Capes, good tankage, good storage.

A Hallberg Rassy 35 Rasmus has currently caught our eye.......
HALLBERG-RASSY HR 34 boat details - BoatPoint Australia

The Equipment.

Epirb.(Even on a limited budget, I just couldn't justify NOT buying one).

Good ground tackle.

Solar Panels/Wind generator. ( My Dad has already donated us a small portable Honda generator).

Liferaft.

VHF. Also our current handheld for Dinghy use.

SSB is probably not necessary but means we would have email and good for cruiser communication.

Chartplotter + backup GPS. Papers Charts would also be a (costly) must. Sextant and tables, more because I am just interested in learning than because I think I would ever need them.

Eutectic refrigeration.

Solar Shower.($4 at a garage sale).

Radar Reflector(s).

Autopilot or Windvane.....undecided.

Maybe a TV. This is currently a contentious issue.

Good books and board games.

Lots of spares and tools.

Sea Anchor.

All suggestions, comments and criticisms are welcome, we are very much in the planning stages and trying to work out 'what will work for us'.


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## St Anna

Chall 03,
Looks pretty good. They are a great boat and easily sailed solo. I would look carefully at eutectic as they will break down somewhere and while it is working, you need to run the engine at least an hour or more each day. We have used eutectic on 2 boats, now have 12/240V. If you need to run engine for eutectic, you will have hot water. Autopilot. 

Books and anything else will be traded in marina laundrettes. Sea anchors - I have one and I will sell to you - too small for current boat, never used on previous - (brand new parasail). HF needed. We used laptop for email, movies (dvd), chartplotter, weatherfax. Sextant, paper charts. Use oversize ground tackle. You will sleep at night without keeping one ear and one eye open.

Good luck and go for it. You have plenty of experience, even if it is 7 times one years experience (??)


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## chall03

Thanks heaps for the advice and info again.

We are looking at the Rasmus up against Mottle 33's, Martzcraft 35, Adams 35/40 etc.

I am not that sure on Eutectic refrigeration, but we may be in a situation where are going to end up with in the short term at least, whatever is on the boat we buy....

As for experience, we are getting there! we have the benefit being able to do a shakedown on the boat up the east coast before we need to do any real bluewater passages.

What are your cruising plans for this season St Anna?

Craig


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## St Anna

Hey Chall03

It should be a great trip for you 2 to visit cane toad land. Good cruising grounds. (Dont bring any AK's- just a sharp wit, 2 beer mugs, and some common sense)

Eutectic fridges. I think you will learn enough to become a fridge mechanic with R134A in your blood. Our philosophy changed from fridge and freezer to just a 12V day fridge when at some stage, the compressor or dryer or coolant or fan belt or bolt tensioning compressor DIED. You might have heard the primeval sub sonic scream I gave, the last time it played up. My eutectic system and I had a competition to see who would last the longest. It almost won, I came out but permanently scarred off eutectics. Now on this boat, I have 12V and 240V run off shore power or generator. It will find some way to annoy me, I know!

Our plans for this year are a slow trip across the top end (back to front), work the cyclone season anywhere south of gladstone. A small bit of work on the boat, then next season we hope to go to Louisiades (from Cairns), New Britain, Kiribati then meander down to NZ for the summer. Who knows- plans have to be fluid for us. 'Whatever' is the word! I may end up having to find work to pay for something on the boat or stuck in PNG doing the do-gooder bit ???

I do know this- I have to go cruising- I already have a bad dose of cabin fever. 

Email me when you are heading up and we'll look out for you.


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## wind_magic

St Anna said:


> Eutectic fridges. I think you will learn enough to become a fridge mechanic with R134A in your blood. Our philosophy changed from fridge and freezer to just a 12V day fridge when at some stage, the compressor or dryer or coolant or fan belt or bolt tensioning compressor DIED. You might have heard the primeval sub sonic scream I gave, the last time it played up. My eutectic system and I had a competition to see who would last the longest. It almost won, I came out but permanently scarred off eutectics. Now on this boat, I have 12V and 240V run off shore power or generator. It will find some way to annoy me, I know!


Maybe I should get one of these eutectic fridges. When I am on the boat I have so much fun that I fear I may OVER-fun when I go cruising, and I wouldn't want that to happen. I could use a few things to dampen my spirits and keep me from experiencing culture shock, something to remind me that there are places in the world that don't always have puffy clouds and sunshine. Not being married, and not having a Catalina, I really need to search out some kind of troubles to me keep me from laughing insanely until I pass out.


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## St Anna

I still have some of the peieces (?)- I could post them out to you - they wont cost much. You could share the fun.


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## Beersmith

Great thread! A lot of the replies are just the type of thing someone like me needs to read about. 

I am only 26 but it has been a dream of mine since I can remember to sail away on my own and explore the world. The primary motivation for me is surfing, and sailing is the optimal way of exploration for me since I am not rich. In the past two years I have taken sailing classes and have been gaining experience any chance I get. I have read a solid lineup of books pertaining to voyaging and have lurked these forums for some time now. I feel like I have the knowledge to begin my boat search and am currently looking around for my vessel. I plan to start my cruise in 2-3 years. If everything goes well (i.e. I don't get laid off, etc.), I will have solid savings for the boat, outfitting for off-shore voyaging, and a cruising kitty to last me a few years. 

I don't own a house and have only have a car and some various equipment I can sell, so money is tight and savings will need to be spent wisely. I seek to learn from people like Lin and Larry Pardey and have adapted their advice for my purposes. The lack of funds demands that I be very self sufficient. 

Thanks to responses like vega1860's. I love the advice and your philosophy.


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## Jim H

*10,000 Hours*

Just to play devil's advocate, let me toss in this concept:

I've been reading Malcom Gladwell's book _Outliers_. One of his concepts in the book is that success is primarily based on how hard and how long you work-- the magic number seems to be about 10,000 hours. Some people (hockey players, computer programmers, fiction writers, and probably sailors) hit the 10k hours mark by the time they are 20 if they are really devoted to the sport/profession/interest. If you look at the really successful "outliers," this is a common factor. In fact, the 10k hours seems to out-weigh a lot of "born ability" arguments or myths.

Anyway, it seems like sailing discussion boards focus on gear. That's fine, but I wonder if simply "time sailing" is more important. 10k hours is about 2500 four hour watches. Even at 4 knots an hour, 10k hours is 40,000 sea miles. Most of us won't reach that number, but some will.

So, a wholly different take on this issue: why not invest time sailing instead of in gear. In the end, big boat vs. smaller boat may be less of a safety concern compared to experience. Crap gear will make life miserable or unsafe, but lots of hours sailing will likely increase both the safety and the enjoyment factors.

So, personal philosophy? Instead of wasting too much time wanting or researching or thinking about having a boat 10 feet longer, I'd rather sail or take more courses or read up to improve skills. It's all like putting coins in a jar. It adds up.

We're off for another week on our boat tomorrow morning, and I hope we're not blasted with too much wind or rain on the Solent.


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## OsmundL

Jim H said:


> Just to play devil's advocate, let me toss in this concept:


Nice one, Jim! 
I wonder if one could not add a word about satisfaction also? Why "bigger"? Why "cruising?" It seems that you will enjoy sailing in the boat you have, whatever size and sophistication. If it is 18 ft and you dare not really go into open sea, then it is just the same challenge to take this boat as far as it will go, and to master it to its limits. You will know that the fun of sailing a small boat is partially _lost_ as you get to the bigger sizes, so this is a precious time, and going bigger is not a one-way street to greater pleasure.


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## chall03

Hear Hear Osmund!!!

I guess there are those who just plain enjoy sailing and do so however is appropriate for them and their financial/life circumstances at that point in time. Then there are those who spend more time obsessing about the bigger boat, the next boat, the new gear and how great it will all be when they get it is all just perfect than actually just _sailing_....

I think Jm H makes a great point, there is no substitute for experience. We could of 'gone cruising' 5 years ago in a reasonable boat if we had just had the money, but methinks even in a well founded yacht it would of been a recipe for disaster, if not at the least a very steep learning curve with success based largely on a generous dose of luck.

What a truly radical concept Jim, that better safety and understanding may actually come from sailing experience, rather than buying the new epirb, a sea anchor or a great chartplotter....


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## LoTech

This is a very interesting string. 

Back in the 1970s when I lived aboard a Cal 40 in Puerto Rico I attempted to 'special order' a brand new boat with a number of modifications. I wanted a boat with zero thruhulls and no engine, plumbing or electrical system. And I wanted no stanchions, lifelines or pulpits because they are a major cause of headaches and leaks. I wanted a pure sailboat around 40' and around 20,000 pds. I had my heart set on a Valiant 40 but they had no interest in working with me on this project for a number of obvious reasons that I won't get into right now. Lol. Eventually I bought a partially built 38-footer and finished it off myself. It had oil navigation lamps, oil interior lighting, a composting porta-pottie, and other such things. No engine, thruhulls, electrical or plumbing system. We sailed from PR to Brazil and back several times and slowly added the following items to make life more convenient and pleasurable:

* parachute anchor
* custom built icebox with 8" of insulation (ice would last ten days)
* scuba gear
* dodger, full sun awning, spray cloths, and wind scoop
* stern anchor roller
* camping stove for cockpit
* vhf radio and a little battery to run it
* transistor am/fm radio with cassette
* solar shower
* zodiac inflatable boat/doubled as liferaft
* manual bilge pump

We kept our water in jerricans. Not needing to be anywhere at any particular time. Traveling with the wind and current.

At the time I would say half the people out there were cruising with similar gear. At least a third had no engine. These days a person sailing without an engine would be considered insane. Or pitied for their poverty.


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## OsmundL

chall03 said:


> guess there are those who just plain enjoy sailing


I started off with a run-down 23ft day sailor with an outboard, and a beach trimaran. Our young little family had a ball in them. At times I wonder if the "bigger and better" has not been an attempt to find back to the pure joy we felt then...


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## TSOJOURNER

I grew up sailing, first on my father's boat and then on my own boats (have had 8 of my own over the years). My siblings have boats as well, as do many friends.

When I was a teenager, I used to think that it would be satisfying to spend my life in the manner that the Pardey's have spent theirs - a simple existence moving from port to port. Idyllic - few possessions and fewer cares.

After university I spent a few years in the Navy. My thoughts changed after sailing on a destroyer. There was one particular North Atlantic storm that we were ran in front of for almost four days. The waves (not swells) were higher than the bridge on a 450 foot long ship. Had we risked turning beam on, we might well have been lost.

Sobering.

Although we had cruised many miles on my father's ketch along the shores of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, it was not common for us to be out at sea in any type of weather. We endured a few minor storms but we did not handle them stoically - any of us.

Subsequent to that, I acquired a cold-moulded Tancook schooner designed and built for racing. You couldn't really call her stripped down because there had never been anything there to begin with. We raced her regularly, but I also spent many weeks on the boat alone, cruising the seaboard with a temperamental VHF, an Origo stove, charts, compass and sextant. Never used the sextant at all. Navigated with charts, binoculars and timing lighthouses. No engine, no refrigerator, a Porta Potti and oil lamps. Many books.

Some of the most perfect times I have experienced in my life were on that boat. Spending days lying on the foredeck, naked, in complete solitude thinking of everything and nothing as the boat bit through sun-dappled waves on a course to nowhere in particular.

There was a sail though, from Newfoundland to Cape Breton, that was sheer hell. For two days the boat tossed back and forth, lay on its side, tried to bury itself headfirst and, failing that, to immerse itself arse-deep in the cold, cold water. Winds were not incredibly strong but it rained incessantly and the waves were high.

No spars snapped, no rigging was lost but everything in the cabin was wet and dented - especially me. When you are on a boat in a storm, there is nothing you can do. You can't get off for a two hour break regardless of how tired you are. There is no towel to dry yourself off with, no toasty heater to get rid of the numbness. If you start puking you don't stop until hours after the last ounce of bile has burnt the back of your throat. 

And you are so incredibly tired that you start to lose your ability to think properly...

Realised after that experience that I have no desire to deal with a real typhoon on a sailboat. Sold the schooner, moved to Upper Canada and got serious about working.

Owned small daysailors and crewed on friends and acquaintances' boats on the Great Lakes, went back to the Maritimes regularly to sail with friends and family.

Decided to get a larger boat a couple of years ago and do some marina hopping in the Great Lakes region. Got a 30 footer with a diesel, a refrigerator, hot and cold presure water, a good stereo, autopilot, propane stove, BBQ, etc., etc., etc. Have been on boats with more gadgets and conveniences but never really used them.

What a difference between my Dad's old wooden ketch, my beautifully primitive schooner and this current marvel of naval engineering! I am a true convert - plastic all the way baby (or perhaps I am just getting old  ).

In the years to come, we'll be spending increasing amounts of time on our boat and probably end up wintering in the Meditrerranean with it. There will be years that we sail back and forth, years when we leave her there and the odd time we may even load her on to a freighter and ship her around.

It won't be this 30 foot boat though. It will be a strongly built something or other that might not go too fast but has a couple of fuel cells and a washer and dryer. Dishwasher would be nice too - microwave is a necessity. Electronics up the yin-yang, satellite TV and a separate shower stall. Why not ?

I don't think that I'd actually enjoy sailing so far on the schooner anymore. What I used to think of as perfection afloat had hard, uncomfortable cushions and a coaming that was impossible to sit on or against. You couldn't stand up inside and everything got mouldy very quickly.

Dad's big, green ketch was a bit more comfortable, and certainly beautiful, but it still leaked and needed hundreds of hours of maintenance in a year to keep it going. Built before the time of fibreglass pleasure craft, it took my father, my brothers and I as well as several of our friends to get her seaworthy every spring and to get her ready for the winter every October. We did it until we realised that there were easier ways to enjoy the wind on the water. 

I guess this means I am getting soft, and maybe a little plastic like the boat I have now - but - too bad. I'm happy


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## Jim H

Sailormann said:


> Some of the most perfect times I have experienced in my life were on that boat. Spending days lying on the foredeck, naked, in complete solitude thinking of everything and nothing as the boat bit through sun-dappled waves on a course to nowhere in particular.


Good grief, Sailormann, that was a wild post you made. 

Quite a cool review of a lot of sailing history. In some ways, I can see that your hard off-shore experiences put you off the rose-colored glasses cruising life ideas, but at the same time Nova Scotia and New Brunswick and the North Atlantic and Newfoundland aren't exactly the places the Pardeys spent their winters sailing through. I wonder if you might have made other choices if you had grown up sailing in Puget Sound, the Chesapeake, or (god forbid) Florida and the Bahamas.

Okay, you've earned the right to enjoy some plastic and electronics and warmth...

Still, it's funny that you think that some of your perfect times were on the older boats. Time and place and opportunity still seem to play a big role in "finding the groove." Sailing isn't always comfortable, but then would we like it as much if it was always a trip to disneyland?

Thanks for the post.


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## imagine2frolic

Jim,
Disneyland offers both wild, and mild just like Mother Nature.  ........i2f


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## TSOJOURNER

well, i am new to sailing but i think i have a good intuition about why i want to sail.

first of all, the possibility or the illusion of the Escape. escape from the routine, escape from the meaningless daily life, escape from the crowds. escape from this and that. when you go into a small bay with the forest sorrounding in the right season when there are no boats around and you are alone, you really have a posibilty of solitute that you dont have anywhere. perhaps in the mountains.(which were for me the escape places before i started sailing)

and i think this is where the paradox appears regarding all the gps radar ssb satellite radio equıipments. a big part or the best part of sailing is that you want to be unseen, you want to be lost, unreachable for a time to enjoy yourself alone and to take full responsibilty of yourself without depending on electronics and the help from OTHERS.
But we are scared. so we buy intruments which we think are going to save us. the illusion of safety......therefore experience is the most important factor for me in sailing although i am new. it will not only save your life but it will also grant you the possibily of living the CORE merit of sailing(for me). you will become(hopefully) with time less dependant on others or fancy toys but will live a simpler life with simpler tools with more understanding towards nature and yourself. you will know and appreciate your limits, not the limits of your gps or the satellite phone. however, the way to do is not to jump off the cliff hoping on the way down you will find a way to grap onto something and that will be a good experience afterall. rather, you have to let go and experiment in a somewhat controlled manner. doing one at a time. you may have a gps but you have to learn to use the sextant and do so where possible. same with the autopilot/windvane systems. perhaps collecting rain water when possible. trying to use very little motorpower. perhaps learning to fix your sails. etc. etc.

from all this things to learn one can deduce that sea is an unnatural habitat to humans. and yet we are trying to(or should) live an unnatural life NATURALLY. sailing is perhaps one of the only ways to do this because they(whoever they are) dont let us live a good life anymore on the land. almost everywhere is infected with the non-nature regarding, violent, non-contemplative, destructive, ultra fast and meaningless way of life. 

therefore sailing should be imho a place or a practice to live a different, more conscious, peaceful life. not the continuation of our societies and our wrong habits and ways of thinking, feeling.
some inner and essential things in humans should change with sailing or else why all the trouble?


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## james007

Most (barring a couple of exceptions) of the replies on this thread have a disease called "gadgetitis" probably from reading and believing most of the crap espoused in sailing magazines.
Stay home please - if you want a shorebased life with all its amenities, then stay on shore. No wonder so many boats are put up for sale in the West Indies after a rough crossing of the Gulf Stream. All the gadgets in the world won't help you a jot when the S hits the F. Oh, sorry, thats not quite right is it. We can now just press a button and have someone come and rescue us from our own ineptness - like the "sailors" whom recently activated an EPIRB because they had ripped a sail and had run out of fuel. I would have thought knowing how to repair sails (contact cement will do at a pinch) and knowing how to "sail" without an engine is an automatic requirement for anyone sailing offshore, or coastal for that matter.
I do not apologise if I have upset anyone with this post. I am new to this forum, and relatively new to computers - so if I am breaking some etiquette, then so be it.
Inquire of Dave and Jaja Martin. They sailed around the world in a converted CAL 25, and when they had a couple kids they upgraded to a modest steel 33footer and sailed to the Arctic with not a radar, epirb, ssb, watermaker... etc in sight. They are out sailing while most of you lot are on computer forums crapping on about all the gear that, that in my opinion, you DON'T need.


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## St Anna

Hey james,
You sure say it like you think it. "Do what you wanna do, be what you wanna be" (sorry song thread quote). I am just killing time but cant get away from thinking, talking boat stuff. Thats why I am on the forum. My opinions have been completely demolished by a few, and I'll take out what I think is useful, ignore the rest. 

One question for you though, is that by posting on the thread, by complicity you are as guilty of what you are complaining about as the ones who have ticked you off!

This is just an observation, not meant to get under your skin, but if this offends you, then bring it on.

As for eternalburzum - you think too much, just go for it - go simple or go complicated whatever suits.


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## james007

St Anna said:


> Hey james,
> You sure say it like you think it. "Do what you wanna do, be what you wanna be" (sorry song thread quote). I am just killing time but cant get away from thinking, talking boat stuff. Thats why I am on the forum. My opinions have been completely demolished by a few, and I'll take out what I think is useful, ignore the rest.
> 
> One question for you though, is that by posting on the thread, by complicity you are as guilty of what you are complaining about as the ones who have ticked you off!
> 
> This is just an observation, not meant to get under your skin, but if this offends you, then bring it on.


No not really. Don't recall me mentioning that I am looking to go offshore or even coatal cruising. Weekend sailing when I get the time - and am in the throes of looking at a boat for possible purchase to do such. 
I've done my fair share of cruising 20 years ago.
Of course, if people want to get on a fourm to find out what information on sailing / cruising / voyageing then that is of course their right to do so. I just hope they read my post and it makes them think a bit, so they are not still on this forum in a years time rooted to the dock because they don't have one or more of the uneccesary gizmo items. And for the record, EPRIRBS and Liferafts are unecessary. Read up on the ,79 Fastnet. Most of the people that died were the ones trying to get into liferafts while their boat was still found floating merrirly the next day. An EPIRB just encourages unskilled, inexperienced sailors to sail offshroe in unsound unseaworthy yachts. So in that case, yes, you proabably need an EPIRB in that case!
And all radar does is make you lazy at keeping a good watch. Watermakers? Give me a break. The only reason you would need a watermaker is because of all the unecessary crap you have aboard means you have no room left to add or increase the sze of your freshwater tankage for extended cruising!
Yes yes - someone will quote someone who was "saved" by having one or more of these items and they will use this as an excuse to say that I am so wrong. Fair enough. I do have an ever more bulletproof method of neverfoundering at sea though - much more impressive than any EPIRB, Watermaker, Liferaft, radar or whatnot. 
What is that you ask?
Answer: Stay on land.


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## St Anna

Jeez James,
It must be difficult knowing so much more about everything. The original 007, also called James loved and needed his gadgets. For example, I am very happy to use a furler, it saves having 5 or more headsails. You can either get with it or not. 

In response to your ramblings;

I am sure your posts are as valid as anybody elses. Your experience on the water is as valid as what you say it is.

We live in luxury because we choose to. Our boat is spartan, but has everything we need. We dont do it tough. Try not to make any assumptions about that. I do actually have an epirb on the boat, so does this by definition make me inexperienced?

If we are anchored near a loudmouth, we move. I havent paid a marina for over 2 years and we do just fine. Marinas are a source of 'loudmouth know it alls' who did one small trip back when adam was a lad and the fastnet race was in the news. These guys are full of it. I hope I am not talking to one of these?

over


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## james007

St Anna said:


> Jeez James,
> It must be difficult knowing so much more about everything. The original 007, also called James loved and needed his gadgets. For example, I am very happy to use a furler, it saves having 5 or more headsails. You can either get with it or not.
> 
> In response to your ramblings;
> 
> I am sure your posts are as valid as anybody elses. Your experience on the water is as valid as what you say it is.
> 
> We live in luxury because we choose to. Our boat is spartan, but has everything we need. We dont do it tough. Try not to make any assumptions about that. I do actually have an epirb on the boat, so does this by definition make me inexperienced?
> 
> If we are anchored near a loudmouth, we move. I havent paid a marina for over 2 years and we do just fine. Marinas are a source of 'loudmouth know it alls' who did one small trip back when adam was a lad and the fastnet race was in the news. These guys are full of it. I hope I am not talking to one of these?
> 
> over


Why take is so personal? And I am sure Marina dwellers are joyful at your accusation that they may be "loudmouth know it alls".
You have pulled one thing out of my text in your last post, being an EPIRB, with some smartalec comment "does this make me inexperienced". If you have a criticism of my post then please criticise it in its full text. Do you not understand the theme of my post, or am I running a class for slow learners here?
Obviously I hit a raw nerve.


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## wind_magic

James, you should really read some of the posts here and get to know some people before you just lose it like that. The reason I say that is that we have pretty in-depth conversations here about the merits of leaving now/small vs. leaving later, we've had whole threads about finance with lots of participants, limitless threads about what equipment is best to take with you, and just on and on. Yeah, you know, we've already read the Pardey books, we all know what you are talking about, many of us practice it, some don't. But you just walking in and assuming that everyone on the forum is a "typical boater" that you need to pounce on is just, well, weird. You obviously haven't taken the time to read many posts on the forum or you'd know a little more of what people here are about. Give it a chance. There are some very experienced cruisers here, many more experienced than you no doubt, maybe you could even learn something.


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## james007

wind_magic said:


> James, you should really read some of the posts here and get to know some people before you just lose it like that. The reason I say that is that we have pretty in-depth conversations here about the merits of leaving now/small vs. leaving later, we've had whole threads about finance with lots of participants, limitless threads about what equipment is best to take with you, and just on and on. Yeah, you know, we've already read the Pardey books, we all know what you are talking about, many of us practice it, some don't. But you just walking in and assuming that everyone on the forum is a "typical boater" that you need to pounce on is just, well, weird. You obviously haven't taken the time to read many posts on the forum or you'd know a little more of what people here are about. Give it a chance. There are some very experienced cruisers here, many more experienced than you no doubt, maybe you could even learn something.


Sorry, don't have the time to read 685,000 posts.

Where did i mention the Pardeys?

If I recall, I mentioned the Martins - Dave and Jaja.

OK - if I have to spell it out in clearer language, here it is: Please please please, new cruisers, do not fall into the trap of getting bogged down in gadgetitis. I am quite well off financially, but most people are not. Most people that go cruising short or long term are not exactly running on the budget of Donald Trump are they. 
So - time spent waiting to buy the next gadget, would be beter spent out on the water getting to know your boat itself, actually, you know "sailing" your boat. You just might then gain the experience and confidence to go sooner rather than reading my waffle here on this forum!


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## St Anna

James, Yep, I am a slow learner. That wont change.

Dont worry, I am not taking anything you say personal. Maybe, if you read your own posts, you might actually bag yourself! 

I was worried I would give you a coronary, but I'm sure your ego could absorb any rises in blood pressure.

cheers mate, have a good day.


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## SeanRW

*Wow !! Did I come at a bad time ?*

First off, I'm new here but have in fact read all through this thread (and others here) and I don't automatically assume that you all are tinkering, gadget freaks. I am enough of that for a fleet of cruisers out there...Except, I don't want to bring that habit with me afloat !!

The opening post of this thread asked us to discuss our philosophies of cruising / circumnav'ng. Then, as all threads will do, it sort of developed a direction of it's own. But the common theme seems to have been to "sh*t or get off the pot". Granted, some people prefer to have a longer list of convenience items aboard, or bigger boats etc. but it seems to me that everyone here is still getting out there with what they can muster up and what they deem necessary for their type of cruising.

I'm newly addicted to this whole cruising concept, having only sailed dinghies when I was younger and then living aboard a Hughes owned by a girlfriend's parents while doing the club racing circuit here on Lake Ontario while and at a local yachtclub. Since then it's been the occasional bareboat trip to the Caribbean. But the hook has been set.

I don't own a boat, haven't since I was 12 or 13, but am looking seriously on the market now. If the lottery would only cooperate, then the decision would be simpler but as with all things in life, you make do with what's available. In my case, financing itself would limit all the "goodies" I *could* put on the boat but as I initially stated, I'm a gadget freak who's trying to kick the habit.

But there's a certain part of me that enjoys having a hot shower, cold beer and a steak one week out to sea. That means a fridge/freezer of some kind, and some means of heating water. I'd also like to set out for my destination(s) with a reasonable chance of success which requires at a minimum charts, compass, sounder, hand gps and a VHF so I don't piss off the coasties. A flare or two might help in cases of serious emergency like running out of beer (I'm kidding about that one).

My ultimate goal is to eventually do a circumnavigation. Not because it hasn't been done before, but because I haven't done it. I've travelled extensively in my life and I long to get back to it. Only this time, without the demands of a deadline or hard date of return. I want to return to a way of life where I have the same sense of independence I had when I used to go camping for fun. I'm older now and appreciate having sheets instead of a bedroll, but I don't want to bring along my 45" TV, 2 stereos, 3 laptops, 2 cellphones etc. I don't want to replicate the voyage of the HMS Endeavour in it's rustic glory but would like to follow in it's footsteps using at least some of the modern doo-hickies that make it more do-able for me.

If I had the means, an Oyster, Hylas, Halberg, Morris would be nice but I'm realistic enough to realize that unless the Lotto 649 gods smile on me, those are pipe dreams. Instead I will be happy with a more reasonable classic-plastic vessel. The basic gear in my mind consists of things that
- Keep me away from bad things (weather, rocks, reefs)
- Keep me IN my boat & my head above water
- Keep me in touch with others incase I foul up any of the above
- Keep me fed, watered and reasonably clean
- Keep me above board in terms of mandated minimum kit required by law

Once I have those basics, I can then add to the list as I go along but at a minimum, the above would get me out on the water. I'm young enough that as long as the basic boat's sound, I can happily enjoy her for years to come. i have no doubt that eventually modern conveniences will find a way to infest her soon enough but at the beginning she'll be simple and honest.


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## St Anna

Great stuff Sean RW. Good luck with the lotto


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## Cruisingdad

I AM ONLY REPLYING TO THIS IN SOME DEPTH AS I AM CONCERNED THAT SOMEONE WILL READ THIS INFORMATION WITHOUT CONSIDERING THE DEPTH OF WHO WROTE IT.



james007 said:


> Most (barring a couple of exceptions) of the replies on this thread have a disease called "gadgetitis" probably from reading and believing most of the crap espoused in sailing magazines.
> Stay home please - if you want a shorebased life with all its amenities, then stay on shore. No wonder so many boats are put up for sale in the West Indies after a rough crossing of the Gulf Stream. All the gadgets in the world won't help you a jot when the S hits the F. Oh, sorry, thats not quite right is it. We can now just press a button and have someone come and rescue us from our own ineptness - like the "sailors" whom recently activated an EPIRB because they had ripped a sail and had run out of fuel. I would have thought knowing how to repair sails (contact cement will do at a pinch) and knowing how to "sail" without an engine is an automatic requirement for anyone sailing offshore, or coastal for that matter.
> I do not apologise if I have upset anyone with this post. I am new to this forum, and relatively new to computers - so if I am breaking some etiquette, then so be it.
> Inquire of Dave and Jaja Martin. They sailed around the world in a converted CAL 25, and when they had a couple kids they upgraded to a modest steel 33footer and sailed to the Arctic with not a radar, epirb, ssb, watermaker... etc in sight. They are out sailing while most of you lot are on computer forums crapping on about all the gear that, that in my opinion, you DON'T need.


Sorry, my meter is pegged.








After sitting and spending more time than I should have on how to respond to this thread(s), I will go against my gut instinct and discuss some of your comments. First of all, I do have a few questions/statements for you.


You claim to be from Washington, so I am just curious why you are writing from New Zealand (PS, I pulled the exact address on your IP... ask your son what that means)?

If you were a self made millionaire, why are you looking at a Contessa 32? I have never known anyone with financial means to buy such a vessel (and believe me, I know a LOT of 'millionaires'). There is nothing wrong with the boat per se, but there are certianly OTHER boats that would maintain the traditionalist sense you appear to be proposing.

You are 54, supposedly. You retired at 40, supposedly. Yet, you said you sailed as a youngster 15 years ago. How did you manage to leap frog 30 years? Please tell me (maybe this is how you became a millionaire at 40??... I must have missed that patent). If you can only learn how to reverse it and go backwards, I think you might even make billionaire by 15, I mean 55.

I have never in my life known a single person of financial independence (and I know a bunch), to put "self made millionaire" in their user page. I am not exactly sure who you are trying to impress here? Are yo uunder the assumption you are the only millionaire on this forum? Hmm. Better check the cost of some of these boats again.

I am a little perplexed at your boat. You see, I did a search on Yachtworld, and there is not a single (not one) Contessa 32 available in the US. THere is one in Canada - but since it still has an engine in it (which you said was ripped out on the boat you are looking at to make space for sails or something... an absolutely brilliant move), I am curious how you came about this boat and where it actually lies (no pun intended)? I guess they are selling it on their own? And so you, as a millionaire, are going to actually consider buying a boat with no engine, no broker, no review of other boats, (and yes, no BS)? Thank God you found Sailnet first, eh?

I have never heard a single person at 54 use the words "Sweet" to describe a boat. My 8 yo kid does, but not too many people past maturity. Sorry, just had to throw that out there.

Let me understand another thing: You read a book once on how somebody sailed without any gadgets (as you put it), and because you sailed 15 years ago on a "small fixed keel boat" (using your words) when you were a youngster (at 40), you now understand the complexities of what is and what is not involved in passagemaking or cruising? And because you sailed a day sailor once 15 years ago you do not believe you need an engine? Just because Lin and Larry did it or Dave and Jaja (whoever they are), what makes you think YOU are good enough to do it?

Most experienced cruisers KNOW their boats. That you would propose the question(s) on a Contessa 32 then spew your remarks on "gadgetitis" sounds kinda funny to me. In fact, whiplash comes to mind.

How did you go cruising 20 years ago, if you did not retire until you were 40 (14 years ago) and learned to sail when you were a youngster 15 years ago? I am a bit confused.

Last question: How is the weather in New Zealand today?



james007 said:


> Most (barring a couple of exceptions) of the replies on this thread have a disease called "gadgetitis" probably from reading and believing most of the crap espoused in sailing magazines.
> Stay home please - if you want a shorebased life with all its amenities, then stay on shore.


On the contrary, if you had taken the time to read the 685,000 posts (or if you had spent just a second more researching here than you did on the Contessa 32... a common mistake for new, unexperienced sailors), you would have realized that most of us have actually done what we talk about. Check the pictures here, or the blogs (better ask your kid what that means), or review some of the write-ups in magazines (the ones you despise). I have posted many pics and discussions of our experience alone, as have many of the other posters. We didn't get it from a magazine. We got it from experience. And even the very spartans of us suggest some of the very basics you dismiss as unecessary. Of course it helps when you have actually been to sea.



james007 said:


> No wonder so many boats are put up for sale in the West Indies after a rough crossing of the Gulf Stream. All the gadgets in the world won't help you a jot when the S hits the F. Oh, sorry, thats not quite right is it.


And you know this, how? Have you ever even been outside the sight of land? Oh, I forgot. You sailed a small fixed keel when you were a youngster at 40.

Now, reality folks, from someone that actually has done it: Yes, this stuff does help you considerably. They makes life easier and can keep the crew more alert for when it really does get mean. For one thing, it is a bear self steering for hours on end. It wears a small crew down. If you can crawl under your dodger (especially when it is raining) and glance around while the boat steers herself (yes, James, even through storms), it is makes you more alert for when the boat cannot sail itself. SSB/weather fax can help you determine weather routing. When offshore, you can use the SSB to get updates and check in. Many of these gadgets, though not neccesary, do allow you to travel in considerably more safety for you, the crew, and for others out there. I don't care how many men you have on watch, if it is pea soup, you won't see a thing. Radar can help considerably with collision avoidance. Freighters can run 35kts and will be on you before you know it (especially when coming into busy harbors).



james007 said:


> Oh, sorry, thats not quite right is it. We can now just press a button and have someone come and rescue us from our own ineptness - like the "sailors" whom recently activated an EPIRB because they had ripped a sail and had run out of fuel. I would have thought knowing how to repair sails (contact cement will do at a pinch) and knowing how to "sail" without an engine is an automatic requirement for anyone sailing offshore, or coastal for that matter.


No, you can't. Depends on where you are located actually. If you are far enough offshore, you are on your own, buddy. Unfortunately (and please take note of this), your cell phone gets poor coverage in the middle of the Atlantic/Pacific. Roaming fees may apply. As such, you might want to consider another way to get someone to come assist. THere is nothing wrong with assistance. Sailors have helped sailors since the beginning of time. Accidents happen. The trick is to practice the best seamanship you can (mileage may vary), and be as prepared and knowledgeable as you can so that you do not needlessly risk others lives.

Regarding your comment on Liferafts or whatever, opinoins vary. We carried one. We will again. I hated it and am happy to say that I wasted 5k on somthing I never used. My opinion might be different should I had not wasted that money on it. But I had a kiddo and felt a neccessity to provide as much of a safety net as possible. And for those that say that they will just use their dink, let me share with you that until you have been in a good storm offshore, you will not appreciate how little usefulness that dink will be seas are breaking around you. It is fair to say that if it brought down your boat, it won't do the dink much good either. Liferafts are made to bob along in those seas. They also carry supplies for basic survival and are (hopefully) easier to see from air than a dink or you treading water. But each sailor has to make their own decision on that on the safety level they are comfortable with.

- CD

PS James007 - This is M. I hope you can hear me. I find your opinion(s) uneducated and without merit. I encourage everyone to participate on this thread - whether they are accomplished sailors, newibies dreaming, or self made millionaires that sailed a small boat once 15 years ago. But I do find your arrogance, negativity, and nastiness unpalatable - which is why we are having this discussion in the open as you chose to do. So, and read this very carefully, if you have any interst in participating in this forum past 6 posts (the same forum you have been asking questions of while making fun of those that participate here), I reccomend you find a way to tone down the rhetoric, or 007 will be your last post, I will ban you from the sight, and I will permanently block you IP from even being able to view this place. This is M, over and out.


----------



## smackdaddy

james007 said:


> Why take is so personal? And I am sure Marina dwellers are joyful at your accusation that they may be "loudmouth know it alls".
> You have pulled one thing out of my text in your last post, being an EPIRB, with some smartalec comment "does this make me inexperienced". If you have a criticism of my post then please criticise it in its full text. Do you not understand the theme of my post, or am I running a class for slow learners here?
> Obviously I hit a raw nerve.


Yo James, I'm one of the loud-mouth-know-it-alls-at-the-marina. Though I agree with your basic thesis - you ain't exactly charming the pants off the sailing world here. I'm thinking you may be the other loud-mouth-know-it-all-at-the-marina. Cheers dude.

By the way - I feel your pain, I'm a self-made thousandaire myself. These poor ignorant cruisers. Stay the hell home! Right?

Okay - gotta go rebuild my watermaker.

PS I do admire the BS. Sweet.


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## sailingdog

Woohoo... Nicely done CD... Next time I see you, I'll buy you a beer.


----------



## stewsam

I'll get back to the question;

My philosophy is light, small and alone, I want to test my boat, my self and the world, I want to go to the places only a few people ever see and I want to be independant and self reliant doing it. I'll use technology where and when it's useful. The reason for going is because I want to and I can, nothing more and nothing less...


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## SeanRW

Having held my breath for a perfunctionary 12 hours in anticipation of a backlash type response to my last post, I've got to chime in.

CruisingDad - Can I have that GIF please ? 

007 - Is an E-120 repeater in the head compartments a bit too overkill ?

:laugher


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## sailingdog

Check out *James Baldwin's Boat List*.



stewsam said:


> I'll get back to the question;
> 
> My philosophy is light, small and alone, I want to test my boat, my self and the world, I want to go to the places only a few people ever see and I want to be independant and self reliant doing it. I'll use technology where and when it's useful. The reason for going is because I want to and I can, nothing more and nothing less...


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## stewsam

sailingdog said:


> Check out *James Baldwin's Boat List*.


Oh I have, many times


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## Cruisingdad

stewsam said:


> I'll get back to the question;
> 
> My philosophy is light, small and alone, I want to test my boat, my self and the world, I want to go to the places only a few people ever see and I want to be independant and self reliant doing it. I'll use technology where and when it's useful. The reason for going is because I want to and I can, nothing more and nothing less...


There is absolutely nothing wrong with that philosophy. Period. And that is what this discussion is about - different ways of doing things. And let us not forget that the seas were sailed for hundreds (thousands) of years without any of the things we have today. Yet, I feel the emphasis of such illustrations should be less "wow, they did it so can I" and more, "Dang! THose guys were outstanding sailors.... the lost art of true seamanship... tougher than nails... very lucky."

There is also no shortage of shipwrecks laying on the bottom of the ocean from Egyptian Rafts, Carthaginian quadriremes, Roman triremes, English/French Frigates, late day wooden schooners, the Titanic, frieghters, and many more private vessels of which nothing will ever be found of ship or crew. I believe that many of the modern day devices and electronics make the oceans safer and the crew and captain safer. Yes, they are likely used as a crutch more than a tool - but therein lies the ultimate debate: to take or not to take. And more importantly, how will you use them? Will they suplement already outstanding seamaship skills? Or, will they keep you from having to develop them in the first place? Who knows. It depends on the captain and his philosophies. Thus, this thread: The Philosophies of Cruising and Circum. That is why I feel a good discussion of those philosophies merits a place in this forum.

- CD


----------



## stewsam

Cruisingdad said:


> I feel the emphasis of such illustrations should be less "wow, they did it so can I" and more, "Dang! THose guys were outstanding sailors.... the lost art of true seamanship... tougher than nails... very lucky."
> 
> There is also no shortage of shipwrecks laying on the bottom of the ocean from Egyptian Rafts, Carthaginian quadriremes, Roman triremes, English/French Frigates, late day wooden schooners, the Titanic, frieghters, and many more private vessels of which nothing will ever be found of ship or crew. I believe that many of the modern day devices and electronics make the oceans safer and the crew and captain safer. Yes, they are likely used as a crutch more than a tool - but therein lies the ultimate debate: to take or not to take.
> - CD


Oh i'm all for electronics, don't get me wrong in that respect, I'd be a silly man not to use what's available...but i'll rely on myself and my skills to make the passage safer...

As for those great seamen of yesteryear, it's also useful remember that for most it wasn't a hobby but their livelihood...


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## St Anna

Wow CD, I though I was alone in the good fight. How wrong was I. 

I think many labour saving devices are good seamanship - eg electric anchor winch, furlers, etc. I also know that the old arguement about using plotters or just paper charts will continue (we use both) BUT, if you need to make a decision immediately, a look at a plotter will tell you which way to turn to get out of trouble without taking any bearings and plotting on the chart and then deciding may get you at the same point,only slower.


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## Cruisingdad

stewsam said:


> Oh i'm all for electronics, don't get me wrong in that respect, I'd be a silly man not to use what's available...but i'll rely on myself and my skills to make the passage safer...
> 
> As for those great seamen of yesteryear, it's also useful remember that for most it wasn't a hobby but their livelihood...


Quite true... and for many it was not a profession of their choosing. Still, outstanding seamanship (and maybe some that was not so outstanding!!!)

You will do fine!!

- CD


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## imagine2frolic

CD,

Maybe that should be Mr. CD? Talk about hitting the mark....WOW

Even Magellan took every modern instrument, and tool he could afford, and I think ice sounds lovely in my glass tinkling as I watch a sunset....lololol....i2f


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## Cruisingdad

imagine2frolic said:


> CD,
> 
> Maybe that should be Mr. CD? Talk about hitting the mark....WOW
> 
> Even Magellan took every modern instrument, and tool he could afford, and I think ice sounds lovely in my glass tinkling as I watch a sunset....lololol....i2f


I believe this is related... so I will just tell you that Ice was one of the most valued commodities on our boat!!!! A friend of ours used to hand his wife one ice cube for their drink, plop it in her glass, and tell her, "Now, do you realize how much diesel that is!??"

HEHE! I love it.

I also remember this sailor we met in the Tortugas. He was telling us that he had just gotten back from the bahamas and this motor boat pulled up. Apparently his freezer had frozen up so the MB chipped off the ice and threw it overboard (in front of everyone). THeir was nothing short of a lynch mob around his boat demanding he give it away next time or swim back to the US!!!

Ice... you just cannot appreciate it until you have spent a long time without it!! And I wouldn't jiggle that glass infront of too many sailors in a hot anchorage! You will end up like that motor boater!

Brian


----------



## imagine2frolic

I wouldn't taunt a hungry dog, or a sailor lacking ice, but when it's hot, and the sun setting. There's a glass on the table in the cockpit full of ice. The ice cracks, and tinkles. It almost seems too decadent compared to my first cruising experience on my first boat.... ...i2f


----------



## sailingdog

You monohull bigot... you forgot the Polynesians... 

BTW, on another forum, I wrote:



> *One thing I've noticed is that as the size of the boats has gone up, the average seamanship has gone down.* This may be partially due to a lot of the larger boats being basically floating condos that were bought as status symbols by people with more income than sailing experience and were bought for the lifestyle, rather than to be actually sailed.
> 
> If you look at a lot of the newer boats, especially the higher production volume boats, you'll see an emphasis on open interior layouts with huge double berths, high head room, and a fair bit of automation that is IMHO fairly unnecessary, were the boat designed properly. These boats, while very pretty, don't have the stowage, the handholds or decent sea berths to make a serious passage in comfort and safety.





Cruisingdad said:


> There is absolutely nothing wrong with that philosophy. Period. And that is what this discussion is about - different ways of doing things. And let us not forget that the seas were sailed for hundreds (thousands) of years without any of the things we have today. Yet, I feel the emphasis of such illustrations should be less "wow, they did it so can I" and more, "Dang! THose guys were outstanding sailors.... the lost art of true seamanship... tougher than nails... very lucky."
> 
> There is also no shortage of shipwrecks laying on the bottom of the ocean from Egyptian Rafts, Carthaginian quadriremes, Roman triremes, English/French Frigates, late day wooden schooners, the Titanic, frieghters, and many more private vessels of which nothing will ever be found of ship or crew. I believe that many of the modern day devices and electronics make the oceans safer and the crew and captain safer. Yes, they are likely used as a crutch more than a tool - but therein lies the ultimate debate: to take or not to take. And more importantly, how will you use them? Will they suplement already outstanding seamaship skills? Or, will they keep you from having to develop them in the first place? Who knows. It depends on the captain and his philosophies. Thus, this thread: The Philosophies of Cruising and Circum. That is why I feel a good discussion of those philosophies merits a place in this forum.
> 
> - CD


----------



## imagine2frolic

The Polynesians, my ancestors, used dolphins, birds, and whales for direction at times when lost due to cloud cover, and change in wind direction for too long. They slowly changed the fresh drinking water with adding salt water. These people were real minimilist...:laugher :laugher ....i2f


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## Cruisingdad

Regarding boat size and seamanship... my opinions:

I feel that boats have gotten bigger because of the systems involved. Whether the seamanship has gone down?? I don't know. Possibly. I believe it is more a function of the equipment you can afford on larger boats than the boat size (if that makes sense)?

I do think that the boats of today are much more comfortable. I think that it has allowed people that could not (or would not) have gone sailing/cruising before, to go now. Perhaps these people should never have gone in the first place? Me, I am glad to see them out there (with some exceptions). I have also seen people stay into sailing longer. From roller furlings, electric winches, windlass, etc... it has allowed people to maintain their passion while losing physical strength due to age. 

Of course, that has come at a trade off. I agree with the comments above about many boats being well suited (out of the box) as a great marina boat and poor cruiser or anything outside of the showroom. Compare, for example, the inside of a Tayana or Valiant against a Bene, Catalina, or Hunter ( to pick on production boats a moment). The Tayana will have fiddle boards everywhere and lots of closed cabinetry with few open shelves. Why? What good are open shelves in a sailboat unless she never sails!!??? Drives me bonkers. But when you pack in all these cabinets on a boat, you can make a big fat boat real small quickly (at least to an untrained eye). So people go on these boats at the boat show and buy for the big open space and shelves, where flower will go, and pillows, and tv's, and decorations. I have seen it sooooo many times. THere is nothing wrong with a home like touch to a boat, but if you have to spend an hour or two stowing crap just to go for a short sail, you will never sail.

On the flip side of that argument, I think that open, comfortable floor plans have been too poorly regarded in many offshore boats. Yes, it is true that those open plans can get you hurt on a crossing - but it is also true that the crossings of the world make up only a very small percentage of your time aboard. I will say that it would be easier to rig an open floor plan boat down below to make it safer for a hard crossing than it is to take a tight little uncomfortable boat and make it comfortable at anchor. 

I honestly think that many people do not put enough empahsis into making their boat comfortable and get burnt out on tight living space. A comfortable boat is mandatory for cruising in my opinion. I'm not out there to prove anything. What could I prove anyways? It has all been done already by better people than me. I am out there to see the world, the people, the cultures, and be a part of nature while sharing it with my family. I wish to do that in at least some level of comfort (at last what I can afford). And for the floating condo's comment, let me just tell you that you cannot make ANY boat, especially anywhere near 40 feet or smaller, an apartment or condo. Ain't gonna happen. What do you have in that boat... a couple hundred sf at best?? How much of that is taken up with cabinetry and furniture??

I remember Tom Neale talking about this and it is funny how closely we agree on things. There were many times we would motor to weather instead of sailing because we did not want crap flying everywhere. I know we are not supposed to talk about that on sailing forums... but at least I am being honest!! I will do it still! Again, I have nothing to prove and have done my hard time on the rail. I practice every once in a while... but I think it is more to fool myself into thinking I can handle it than when the real stuff hits. I am no expert. I learn something new all the time. But I have also learned over the years what does and does not work for us. Others feel different and I wish them all the fun their boats and wives will take.

- CD


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## Cruisingdad

imagine2frolic said:


> The Polynesians, my ancestors, used dolphins, birds, and whales for direction at times when lost due to cloud cover, and change in wind direction for too long. They slowly changed the fresh drinking water with adding salt water. These people were real minimilist...:laugher :laugher ....i2f


Is that true about adding the salt water?? I had never heard that. Incredible.

Brian


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## imagine2frolic

Possibly.............:laugher .....i2f......yes sir it is true


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## camaraderie

CD...well said on the long response to 007! I was gonna comment about the gulf stream not being near the West Indies but no need to further pile on!


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## St Anna

Hey CD,
With respect to your motoring to weather comment. When a cruisers comes into port they always refuel. The honest ones will say they use the iron headsail if they slow to less than 3 or 4 kn. I actually have to make 2300nm against the wind next month and motorsailing will be the name of the game. Either that or a tour of the western pacific - sailing 5000nm to go 2300. Then again, it would be much quieter without the engine!!


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## chall03

CD, Did I ever tell you about the time 37 years ago when I sailed a Beneteau 50 without an engine around the moon ??? 



stewsam said:


> I'll get back to the question;
> 
> My philosophy is light, small and alone, I want to test my boat, my self and the world, I want to go to the places only a few people ever see and I want to be independant and self reliant doing it. I'll use technology where and when it's useful. The reason for going is because I want to and I can, nothing more and nothing less...


Stew and et all, Ignore James's ramblings, but please look back further in this thread at some of Vega's posts on doing it small and simple but with great common sense.....

Can i say there is always in life two extremes, most of us will be somewhere in the middle.


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## Cruisingdad

chall03 said:


> CD, Did I ever tell you about the time 37 years ago when I sailed a Beneteau 50 without an engine around the moon ???
> 
> Stew and et all, Ignore James's ramblings, but please look back further in this thread at some of Vega's posts on doing it small and simple but with great common sense.....
> 
> Can i say there is always in life two extremes, most of us will be somewhere in the middle.


Agreed. THat is exactly why I invited Vega to this thread. I feel he gives a great pic of the other side.

- CD


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## chall03

Absolutely! 

I think his is a good picture that is grounded in firsthand cruising experience and delivered with a good dose of wisdom and common sense. 

CD, (if I may momentarily kiss your ass  ) your opinion is also one that I believe should be in high regard here in this discussion, you have likewise been there and done that. 

Often I look forward to a time when Josie and I will hopefully have family, and cruising I hope would be an enriching part of our family life, and well I just can't argue with a logic that says use every resource available to keep those you love safe. I, although limited by budget, would probably adopt exactly the same philosophy.


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## 6string

Boats - vessels of freedom. When I get out on any boat there is a freedom that I feel that I get nowhere else. I get a greater feeling of freedom when I can move along with just the wind as my power. 

I have been boating for most of my 51 years. 40 of those involve sailing. I have been racing scows in the Wisconsin all of that time. In winter we get out on a DN ice boat. I love the feel of the winds power moving any boat. It has always been fun to learn how to handle the different boats and how they respond to differing conditions. 

The past 10 years we have been chartering. Lake Superior a few times and 3 times to the BVI. To be able to sail to beautiful places and just hang out is priceless. After our first BVI trip, it took me over a week to get my head back into work. I was hooked on finding a way to get back there, maybe full time. 

This fall we bought our first cruising boat. Prior to this I have owned sailboats from 12' to 28' which were purely sailboats. No batteries, no motor, no "gadgets". Just a hull with spars and sails. The new boat to us is a 1986 Baba 40, the SV/ Mezzaluna. What a change. We now have a cabin below deck, a motor on board, batteries, heat and hot water, air conditioning (for now) and "gadgets". When we bought her the fuel tank had a hole in it. I am handy with tools and have been doing all of the work myself. As I went through this project over this past winter I found many things that needed attention. Many I couldn't do in one off season. We are getting the main mechanical things straightened out, getting the rig strong and ready and getting it cleaned up so we can use it this summer. She won't be pretty this summer but she will sail. I am having the time of my life. If I am not at my job, I am working on Mezzaluna.

My wife has been behind me on this project from the day we first looked at it. She has just started helping with the work in the past few weeks. She wants to be able to sail on her too. I am a lucky man. Katie has been my crew the past 20 years racing at home. She has loved the charters. In fact she gave me the business for not taking her to the BVI again this spring when instead I stayed home and spent the entire spring break working on Mezzaluna so we can sail on our own cruiser. She started working on the boat that week.

We are hoping that in the next 5-7 years we can sell our lake home and have enough invested that we can spend 5 - 10 years cruising and maybe circumnavigating. We are taking it one step at a time. We will spend our time for now cruising Lake Michigan and see how we like it. If all is good we will take the next step, what ever we decide that is. (vessels of freedom)

At the end of the day, these are still all sailboats. The gadgets don't sail the boat, people do. The basics of sailing on any of them from 12' to 40' is the same. However, they each are different as each person is different one from the other. You need to learn how they handle, what they feel like moving in the water. How to tune it, what makes it happy versus the boat fighting with you. It is all a learning experience, and that is what is so fun about it. Figuring it all out. Feeling that power and using it to go somewhere. 

The "gadgets", they are just extra toys to play with if you are so inclined. Personal preference. We'll have some not all. Do you think the mariners of long ago gave the first guys to use a sextant a hard time for having that "gadget" on board? I see them as a tool that can help make the trip a little easier, sometimes safer and something to enjoy learning. Again, it is personal preference if one should have anything other than a hull, spars and sails. It is not right or wrong.

Here's to another sailing season begining. Our scow racing starts Tuesday. I still own 2 c scows. When I bought my current one, I kept the previous one and let my son sail it. We brought those home and will rig them this weekend. Today I finish sanding and tomorrow the bottom paint goes on Mezzaluna. Choices choices! 

Boats - vessels of freedom.


Jeff


SVs'/Mezzaluna, fafakitahi, Hodag


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## Cruisingdad

Everyone,

I received a nice PM from James007. He was in fact a college student writing a paper on the subject and tested this thread and its participants to receive a reaction and evaluate it. As such, I believe we can appropriately dismiss his conclusions and comments.

I merely point this out now in the event that someone would take his advice. I take this thread seriously as I feel it could weigh on the decisions and ultimate judgements of those who read it.

- CD


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## LWinters

I am a new poster on this thread so I'll go back to the original question. I started sailing on inland waters just over six years ago now. ASA classes gave me a start and I built on those in Dallas, Missouri, New Mexico, and finally started chartering in the waters off of California. Two and a half years ago I bought a 1976 Allied Mistress and began her refit for long term cruising. In November of 2008 I quit my job and cut the dock lines. 

My window opened Jan. 10 2009 for a Gulf of Mexico crossing from Galveston, TX to Isla Mujeres Mexico. I sail single handed and made the 650+ nautical mile trip in five days four hours. Since thin I hopped down the Mexican cost and am writing this from the anchorage at Caye Caulker, Belize.

I am 33, short on budget, but long on time and energy. I bought a sound boat for under 50K and replaced, serviced, or repaired what I considered essential gear including life raft, epirb, radar, autopilot, watermaker, and SSB. You can definitely go with less, but I sure like the setup I've got. The boat is dry, comfortable, and sea worthy and will carry me as far as I am willing to go. I suppose I definitely fall into the K.I.S.S. philosophy of sailing. Even now I sometimes consider removing some gear like the engine driven fridge so there would simply be one less thing to maintain. 

The other thing I've realized is that I get closer to the locals eating in the cheap joints with them than in the more expensive tourist restaurants. Being a single hander with a dog also seems to open more doors than I could have imagined. Money seems to be the least thing that would now keep me from doing this again.

Cheers from s/v Jargo.

Lee


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## SeanRW

Lee,

That's EXACTLY what I would like to eventually do. Simplify my life somewhat, enjoy the travel and keep it basic. Though, I still think an E120 in the head is important !! (kidding)

Seriously though, sounds like it's working out for you well !! Especially the fact that you're getting to know the locals on their "turf" as opposed to the illusionary "vacation" spots. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've travelled extensively and one of my favorite things is to try to avoid the hotels, spas, touristy places and instead, seek out the places less traveled. 

Afterall, the whole reason for traveling is to see new places and explore other cultures. If I wanted to stay in a westernized environment, there's plenty of nice hotels in North America or Europe. But then I'd be missing out on the reason for travel in the first place !!

Cheers.

Sean


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## tdw

Now that we've discussed the equipment thing how about destinations and/or cruising grounds ?

Our initial plans are relatively simple, we'd like to spend a couple of years cruising south coast NSW, Tasmania, Lord Howe Island, Queensland/GBR and the Kimberley Coast of Western Australia then the Louisiades and the Solomons, possibly New Caledonia cos that can form part of a loop back to Oz.

Within reason these are simple goals, realistically achievable, indeed all that I've mentioned could be done in passages of not much more than approx 300nms.

That leaves my two other dream destinations being the American PNW and Iberia which are slightly more problematic unless we do buy a boat in the US , cruise PNW then sail her home. Iberia ? Not sure how to work that one in cos I have no real desire to sail across the Indian and into the Atlantic. Charter maybe ? Or buy over there short term ? Not sure.

Ah, I forgot New Zealand but to be honest I suspect that we would charter. Crossing the Tasman holds no appeal whatsoever.


ps - having said all that, every time I delve into Hal and Margaret Roth's "Two on a Big Ocean" I wanna do that circuit, though I'm not at all sure I have the requisite cojones !


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## chall03

Sounds great TDW, 

We have just started venturing further afield in baby steps, Port Stephens is going to be next, Jervis Bay shortly there after.....

When we reboat the plan is Queensland/GBR to shakedown, and then depending on time/money/how we are finding it all, we would do a similar loop to what your thinking turn right at Cairns and go Louisiades, Solomons, Vanuatu, New Cal and then home. 

There is a thought of going from here to Lord Howe as a shakedown. However Lord howe to me is far scarier than 3 months of sailing up to Cairns. It is essentially 400ish nms of Tasman Sea. For beginners like us that isn't a small feat.


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## LWinters

I guess I decided that if I was going to go to all the effort to buy and refit a boat, save the money, quit a good job, and go sailing then I was going for the long haul.

The plan is to use 2008 to continue working down from Belize to Honduras, offshore to Isla Provadencia, San Blas and Cartagena Columbia, then through the Panama Canal for the spring 2010 pacific season. I can see about as far as Tahiti after that, but won't even pretend to guess what the cards hold after that. A northern route through the suez and med or southern route around good hope? 

Right now I just want to enjoy the countries between here and 10N where I am heading to escape the coming hurricane season. Never again after IKE.

Lee


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## tdw

chall03 said:


> Sounds great TDW,
> 
> We have just started venturing further afield in baby steps, Port Stephens is going to be next, Jervis Bay shortly there after.....
> 
> When we reboat the plan is Queensland/GBR to shakedown, and then depending on time/money/how we are finding it all, we would do a similar loop to what your thinking turn right at Cairns and go Louisiades, Solomons, Vanuatu, New Cal and then home.
> 
> There is a thought of going from here to Lord Howe as a shakedown. However Lord howe to me is far scarier than 3 months of sailing up to Cairns. It is essentially 400ish nms of Tasman Sea. For beginners like us that isn't a small feat.


Chall,
Baby steps are good.
Jervis is our next one. We didn't get up to Port stephens, weather and time mucked up the plan . Got to Newcastle then ran out of time. Jervis should be a nice wee cruise. Chance to do an overnighter, bit more of a test of the old navigational skills. I'd like to do my Yachtmaster so will need to do the passage requirements. I've done more than enough over the years but not recently so want to do it again with it all signed off etc. YM Coastal is 300nms with two passages of at least 50 and one of at least 100 , from memory. Jervis is 75 (return ergo 150) and Port Stephens 65 (130) so I'd like to do Lord Howe as the long one. Would give me much more than I need. That would also give me passage time of at least 10 days, need 15. Run up the coast to , say, Coffs would take care of the rest. Then again we are also thinking of doing the Heaven Can Wait this year.
Ref Lord Howe, yes it is a doozey. Sydney is not the best place to start from given the prevailing is probably going to be from the NE. Out of Sydney that means a hard beat to windward. Better to get up the coast a bit and head out from round Coffs or Port Macquarie. If you get the weather right then coming home is a reach. If time permits, and for those of us still working that can be a snag, then a port hop up the coast would make for a very pleasant enough shakedown cruise before heading offshore proper. Now, given that the run up the coast will be a beat it would be nice to be able to pop into port most nights to freshen up. The harsh reality is that heading north from Sydney is almost always going to be a slog unless you are lucky enough to grab hold off the tail end of a southerly. Then you are left with a reach to Lord Howe which is what you want for a first offshore. 
I've crewed on longer than passage to Lord Howe but not skippered. Going offshore in one's own boat is indeed a big step and yes, it makes me somewhat nervous to think about it, but to my mind overconfidence would be worse than a slight case of the jitters.


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## Jim H

tdw said:


> I've crewed on longer than passage to Lord Howe but not skippered. Going offshore in one's own boat is indeed a big step and yes, it makes me somewhat nervous to think about it, but to my mind overconfidence would be worse than a slight case of the jitters.


I feel somewhat lucky in that it's easy in the UK to sign up for a 7-21 day offshore learning experience, primarily for gaining sea miles and to learn from a yachtmaster. Last year, both my wife and I crossed the channel (only 65 miles, and not true "offshore"), but we did it on separate RYA trips and learned alot about crossing shipping lanes and doing night watches.

We hope to do the same this June with the kids on our own boat, and we're preparing accordingly (epirb, improved safety gear, paper charts, etc.). It's another step.


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## danz101

Try my position, i'm in melbourne and whilst an avid reader of these forums havent actually written anything 

I dont know if its a blessing or a curse, a massive bay to go sailing in relatively pleasant conditions, but any ocean cruising = tasman sea or the southern ocean ! 

Still getting into it and dont own a boat myself so not too much of a concern at present - might have to move to QLD though.

Dan.


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## EBdreamn

I admire those who are willing and able to do more with less. It must be exhilerating for them to undertake their quests under the most severe and primative circumstances. It is no less exhilerating for me to watch them with ice in my drink, cool air in my bunk and every technological advantage guarding my life as I explore the same world. I know my limits and I am not ashamed nor diminished by them. I applaud and to a degree envy those made of stiffer stuff.....but I am grateful that it no longer takes this fabric to see the world from the deck of a boat under my own terms and control. I eagerly watch and listen for the sounds of their triumphs....wait let me turn down the stereo...ok... go.


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## wind_magic

EBdreamn said:


> I admire those who are willing and able to do more with less. It must be exhilerating for them to undertake their quests under the most severe and primative circumstances. It is no less exhilerating for me to watch them with ice in my drink, cool air in my bunk and every technological advantage guarding my life as I explore the same world. I know my limits and I am not ashamed nor diminished by them. I applaud and to a degree envy those made of stiffer stuff.....but I am grateful that it no longer takes this fabric to see the world from the deck of a boat under my own terms and control. I eagerly watch and listen for the sounds of their triumphs....wait let me turn down the stereo...ok... go.


Doing more with less. There is nothing wrong with focusing on the "with less" part, I suppose, not having ice, or a stereo, etc, but I find it more interesting to focus on the "do more" part of the phrase.

Two hypothetical young cruisers each sell their basic home for 300k$us and intend to go cruising ...

Young *Cruiser #1* wants the creature comforts, wants the bigger boat, etc, nothing wrong with that, that's the great thing about cruising, you can do whatever you want within your own limits. So Cruiser #1 spends half on a boat - 100k$us, and refits with most of the comforts, ice maker, stereo, all the rest, solar panels, water maker, and by the time it's all said and done let's say the cruiser has spent 160k$us leaving about 140k$us. The cruiser wants to stay in marinas at 50$us/night maybe once a week (2.6k$us/year), eats at restaurants for 50$us/week (2.6k$us/year), insures the boat well, and blah blah blah, and basically ends up spending 40k$us/year in expenses to live in basic comfort. So with that 140k$us they had left, divide that out and let's say they can go cruising for 4 years before they run out of money, a nice comfortable long vacation the cruiser will never forget.

Young *Cruiser #2* gives up the creature comforts and economizes, wants the very basic smaller boat, etc, and is careful with their money. No ice, no stereo, maybe a solar panel for their VHF, but nothing fancy at all. Cruiser #2 starts with an inexpensive boat, shops around and finds one for 50k$us, 70k$us after refit with the basics (wind vane self-steering and little else). They never stay at marinas, don't eat at restaurants, and all the rest, and manage to drive their expenses down to 6k$us/year (people have lived on less). So all said and done out of their initial 300k$us they've spent 70k$us on the boat leaving them with 230k$us, and invested at 5% interest that is 11.5k$us year in interest, of which they use 6k$us for expenses, leaving a surplus of 5.5k$us/year. If the cruiser ever decides to go back to life on land they've got 230k$us in their pocket plus whatever surplus they've saved along the way.

Same 300k$us initial investment; Cruiser #1 has the comforts and goes back to work in 4 years, broke, and Cruiser #2 goes without the comforts and goes back to civilization whenever they want, or never.

Enjoy your ice.


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## EBdreamn

I appreciate the analysis...and I can't say I disagree with any of it. In fact the hardest part of starting the journey away from civilization is not...for most....finding the money ....its finding the nerve. If the mission is to get out and stay out and not ever really work again, then rationing cash is the same idea as rationing water on a long passage. Its all critical to the mission. I don't think you are saying that cruiser #1 is some how inferior to #2 just because he may run out of money and return to land...my point in the previous post was....sort of....that both are experiencing the same world in different ways...which is good...I wan't everyone to be here...good things happen out here whether you have ice or not. I read every post in this string before putting in my own. I was attempting to comment on what I saw as an unfriendly/unsailorly attitude toward those who use their money in a certain way...to buy comfort afloat essentially...ice if you will. No one with any sense wants to be viewed as a poser who simply goes out and attempts to substitute experience with gear...and I admit there is a certain satisfaction every time I hand a golf partner his hat having used my 30 year old well worn clubs when he's swinging more titanium than an F-16. I get it.....but.....At the end of the day I still want him as a friend and equally important is the fact that the experiences we share are fundamentally more important than how we come by those experiences. It is not fundamentally foolish to use your money....and that is what this divide seems to be about $$$$......it is not foolish to use your money to buy stuff..sailing or otherwise. It is also not necessarily a superior experience to do with out the stuff....though it has its own special rewards... I suspect that posers will eventually return to land because they are not cut out for the wet life....that or maybe...just maybe.... they will see that they can do more with less and begin to pare down the must have list.....I understand the exhilleration of using each tool to its utmost and accomplishing mission after mission without EPIRB, insurance or 3 heads....but I am equally understanding of how we all need to be accepting of each others personal choices.....expect the best of each other and invite the Oyster owner over for a cocktail and a story.....he may bring ice.....and his exploits are possibly quite entertaining......count no one out....include everyone....share everything...add more than you take........these are universal pole stars of sailing...and life. Besides....vodka and cranberry sucks warm.....


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## vega1860

No stereo?!?!?  

Even I won't go that far. In fact, my next expenditure will be for an ipod and compatible tuner/amp. The old Tuner/CD/Cassette unit died on us and is holding my favorite Beach Boys CD hostage :hothead 

Meanwhile, I've transferred all of my music to an external hard drive and got rid of the CDs - forty pounds weight savings and a couple of cubic feet of storage freed up. 

In port it is not so much of a problem as we use the laptop as an entertainment center, but at sea the computer goes into the waterproof case and we need our soundtrack.


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## captmikem

Been reading all these, as I have been ashore for a few years now and am thinking it is time to go to sea again. So here are a few of my thoughts on circumnavigating and cruising:
I have been around twice. First time took three years second time two years. Both were too fast. Many side trips up north of Alaska, Baffin Island, and Disko Greenland. Not to far south, Stewart island probably the farthest south. I have sailed close to half a million miles, and I would go around again. 
You can say “I want to go to Spain” or “I want to go to Fiji” But when you head west around the world it is a voyage, not a destination. And so many things to see along the way that you can not even imagine. We came through Panama one time and decided to head south to Easter Island instead of the normal route to the Marquises. What a great trip that was, stopped at the Galapagos, and Pitcarin Island. That is what it is all about.
But also I enjoy small trips as well, over to the med for a summer or more, then back across the Atlantic, it is a good trip and lots to see. Without exceptions every time we have made the crossing from the Canaries to the West Indies, when land finally hove into sight, everyone aboard would say “Do we have to stop? Can’t we just keep on sailing”. Admittedly it is one of the nicest, easiest ocean passages in the world, but many are like that.
We went across the Aleutians to Petropavlovsk, Bering island and the Kuril islands, then returned to Alaska. What a bunch of fun. A great side trip.
I stayed in Carins for a while, sailing up to PNG to do some great diving. Oz is such a great place to sail, so much in the north that is so beautiful yet few people spend the time there. The people in Gove welcomed us like old friends, let us a car and fed us in their homes. 
We did a figure of eight around New Zealand. Few people get down to the south of the south island. The Fjords there are absolutely worth the trip. And all you have to do is point the bow in that direction.
Just going someplace, getting out of the anchorage or marina and going for an adventure. That is what cruising is about. 
Just a few thoughts, I do love GPS, I have been using it since 1986 when we just had a few hours a day of fix, but it was so nice. I DR’d across the Atlantic once, so cloudy I could never get a sight. But it worked out. I think if I had only one item, it would be radar. Radar is very nice. 
I like chutes, the run from the Canaries to Barbados or Antigua is one of the nicest in the world. I have carried a chute nearly every time I have made this crossing. I usually sail with just my wife, so having a Sock is a very nice thing. But you don’t need to carry a chute if you do not want to; Next to a chute, a 130 on a pole is my favorite. We have cranked out some high mileage days with the jib on a pole and the main on the other. Day after day after day. Beautiful days.
I probably should, but I have not used a harness in years, just seems cumbersome. Not suggesting anyone else get rid of theirs. I figure if I go over the side, I am dead anyway so I just hang on tight. I remember being hove to in a gale of wind heading down to the Canaries, middle of the night and the wind increased like crazy, the reef line chaffed through, lightening and rain all around, blowing like stink, I was trying to wrap a line around the main when a huge gust hit us and laid us down. I grabbed onto the shrouds and was flogging like a flag in the wind, but I never felt like I was going over the side. Lucky I guess.
I like roller headsails and jiffy reefing full battened mains. With all leads running to the base of the mast. These boats that have halyards and reef gear under the dodger are a pain to me. You can not see the sail as you crank a halyard or reef line so you have to guess what you are doing, you are not in a good position, if things hang up you have go square them away anyway, then come back. Just better at the base of the mast where you can deal with it and see it and crank it right there.
A requirement? A good autopilot or vane. I like Pacific Plus or Monitor vane, and Robertson autopilots.
For size, the first boat I sailed around the world was a Frerrs Pamer Johnson 80. 80 feet is fine for speed and room, but it is a bit much for two people to handle. Spinnaker poles were carbon fiber so they were not too heavy but it took both of us to set it. We put about 35000 miles on an Alden 54, that was a pretty good size for two people. We are at the moment about to close on a 46 foot cutter. She should be easy to single hand and a pleasure for two people.
I like digital charts, refrigeration, and watermakers, but if push came to shove I could do without them. I have grown to enjoy SSb with a Pactor for weather and cruising chat. Nice thing to have. And DVD’s. 
What I like is the beauty of the ocean, the sight of dolphin on the bow, whales jumping, sunsets and sunrises that take your breath away. Snug anchorages and drinks in the cockpit with folks that are so different yet so much the same.
Everything is real at sea, nothing fake. You can pour a billion dollars into the sea and it will not calm it, you can tell the wind how important you are and it does not care. You can show a squall your credentials and your diplomas and it will just blow them out of your hands. Everything is real and you are totally responsible for yourself. You can not buy it. You have to go with it, let go and fly with things. You can’t sue the sea. At least not yet.
Mostly, circumnavigating is about meeting people and seeing things and places. A very good way to spend the short amount of time we are given on this earth.


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## tjaldur

As I understand it, this is an invitation to share my philosophy about sailing, cruising and circumnavigation. So my philosophy is that I just want to sail, but I am not going anywhere, that is, just to the next harbour. Remaining in that harbour for the rest of my life is one of the possible options I have. Under this philosophy I started sailing from Oslo, Norway towards south, last summer, with absolutely no hurry, as I was retired that year. I have posted a photo of my ship in some other thread that I hope i manage to link to: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/living-aboard/41289-living-mooring-3.html#post315765.

Under this philosophy I finally reached the bay Of Biscay, where my ship was lost by another ship that had agreed to tow it ashore, to the harbour of Arcachon in France, because of engine trouble. The story is blogged Tjaldurs reise til Karibbien - Bjørn. This blog is in Norwegian, but google has a facility for translating websites from any language to any other. This translation is possibly more fun to read than the original, as google really invents some fascinating metaphors in the translation.

Since I lived in my ship and no insurance company wanted to insure a ship that was older than 70 years, (my ship was 75) I am now back in Oslo saving money out of my decent, but not luxurious retirement (67 % of the average of my 20 best earning years as a municipally employed lion tamer, or as the community of Oslo would describe it: director of an institution for juvenile delinquents.

Accordingly my philosophy has developed into a quite simple one. I will sail with whatever I have got by next spring and I will buy the equipment as I sail along. The only thing I know for sure is that the boat will be between 30 - 35 feet. Probably built around -85. It will have a long keel and at least 35 % of the weight under the water line.

Concerning equipment, a radar will be the first piece of equipment that I will buy. (I have already the charts, as C-map was very helpfull in restoring my charts and NavSimm was very helpful in restoring my chart-reader on my new laptop. (Absolutely everything was lost except the few clothes that I was waring and my Visa-card).


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## Cruisingdad

tjaldur said:


> As I understand it, this is an invitation to share my philosophy about sailing, cruising and circumnavigation. So my philosophy is that I just want to sail, but I am not going anywhere, that is, just to the next harbour. Remaining in that harbour for the rest of my life is one of the possible options I have. Under this philosophy I started sailing from Oslo, Norway towards south, last summer, with absolutely no hurry, as I was retired that year. I have posted a photo of my ship in some other thread that I hope i manage to link to: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/living-aboard/41289-living-mooring-3.html#post315765.
> 
> Under this philosophy I finally reached the bay Of Biscay, where my ship was lost by another ship that had agreed to tow it ashore, to the harbour of Arcachon in France, because of engine trouble. The story is blogged Tjaldurs reise til Karibbien - Bjørn. This blog is in Norwegian, but google has a facility for translating websites from any language to any other. This translation is possibly more fun to read than the original, as google really invents some fascinating metaphors in the translation.
> 
> Since I lived in my ship and no insurance company wanted to insure a ship that was older than 70 years, (my ship was 75) I am now back in Oslo saving money out of my decent, but not luxurious retirement (67 % of the average of my 20 best earning years as a municipally employed lion tamer, or as the community of Oslo would describe it: director of an institution for juvenile delinquents.
> 
> Accordingly my philosophy has developed into a quite simple one. I will sail with whatever I have got by next spring and I will buy the equipment as I sail along. The only thing I know for sure is that the boat will be between 30 - 35 feet. Probably built around -85. It will have a long keel and at least 35 % of the weight under the water line.
> 
> Concerning equipment, a radar will be the first piece of equipment that I will buy. (I have already the charts, as C-map was very helpfull in restoring my charts and NavSimm was very helpful in restoring my chart-reader on my new laptop. (Absolutely everything was lost except the few clothes that I was waring and my Visa-card).


Ouch... what a loss!! she looked a beautiful boat! Nice to have you around here too!

- CD


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## tjaldur

@ Cruisingdad:

Staying around here is the best way to boost my fidelity in my dreams. If not, I would spend the rest of my life feeeding the pidgeons in the park.


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## RhosynMor

a Fascinating thread;
While I cannot afford many of the luxuries enjoyed by others with more income than I have, Rhosyn Mor is my home and I keep it as comfortable as is possible. Started off with a day sail to the hook of holland, and just kept going. 7 years later have crossed the med twice and the atlantic once, 
put 12K miles under the keel and still having a wonderful time. I see too many people waiting and waiting for just the right boat, or just the right piece of gear, or just another few thousand.
IMHO in some ways the Pardey's were right, go with what you have. You will adapt to sailing with what you have If your vessel is not a " bluwater" type you can get to lots of places and never stray more than a couple of days from land.
WOuld love to have radar, and SSB transceiver, but income wise they are not on the cards for another year or two.
Things that are Vital:
Lots of tankage
Light air sails
Self steering
Battery power- I have just put in two more 8d's to bring it up to 950 AH
LED lights
SSB receiver - I use a KAITO 
Good quality head- LAvac
COmfortable berths and at least one good sea berth
Storage, and more storage
lots of spare line
redundancy in all systems
way overkill ground tackle, and lots of it, there are times I have used all four anchors
an open mind and a sense of wonder
deep cockpit with good drainage
high bridgedeck
harness and tethers


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## imagine2frolic

I think a lot of people waiting for the latest gear, or to do a replacement for gear. I think they are making excuses. I have seen people do this for years on years. Well I just have to get this, and I am ready, and then they need something else.

There's nothing wrong with not cruising. Can you imagine what it would be like if every boat owner was a cruiser? There would be no anchorages left :laugher !......i2f


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## tjaldur

@ rhosynMor:

Now if you are sailing all around, perhaps you should consider taking a trip to Denmark to this place: Fornaes Shipbreaking - Scandinavias largest stock of used marine diesel engines and ship equipment: This is the place where all the Danish fishing-ships that are taken out of fishing tonnage end. The parts are sold. I once bought a perfectly good Furuno radar there for DKK 4000,- equivalent to about $700,-


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## wind_magic

RhosynMor said:


> Started off with a day sail to the hook of holland, and just kept going. 7 years later have crossed the med twice and the atlantic once, put 12K miles under the keel and still having a wonderful time. I see too many people waiting and waiting for just the right boat, or just the right piece of gear, or just another few thousand.


I think this is the hardest part, throwing off the dock lines.

Your post reminded me of this story, the £200 millionaire.


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## lancelot9898

captmikem said:


> .Everything is real at sea, nothing fake. You can pour a billion dollars into the sea and it will not calm it, you can tell the wind how important you are and it does not care. You can show a squall your credentials and your diplomas and it will just blow them out of your hands. Everything is real and you are totally responsible for yourself. You can not buy it. You have to go with it, let go and fly with things. You can't sue the sea. At least not yet.
> Mostly, circumnavigating is about meeting people and seeing things and places. A very good way to spend the short amount of time we are given on this earth.


Well said Capt Mike! I've never circumnavigated nor even crossed the pond, but have lived aboard for over 20 years now and some of my fondest moments are the ones meeting other "boat people". Some like you have done the serious crusing and I've listened to their many stories and others follow the yearly migration along the ICW to points south motoring almost the entire way. I no longer live full time aboard, but every chance I get I'm out there sailing. Some years more than others and I might add I did complete a circumnation of sorts a few days ago. A 44 mile circumnavigation of a small island here on the Cheaspeake.  Appreciate your posts.


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## imagine2frolic

wind magic

great read on the millionaire. I had to save it, and say thanks for posting.......*i2f*


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## wind_magic

Thanks I2f. 

Here, I think, is the perfect example of why people have trouble throwing off the dock lines - Retired at 38, fantasy vs. reality, an article wherein the author tells the youngster that 900k$us simply isn't enough money to retire on, why ? Because the author assumes that the young person won't be able to reduce their expenses enough to live on 35k$us/year, because "unexpected things" might happen along the way, and because the young person won't live a full life if they retire. That is the kind of thinking that keeps boats tied to docks, clinging to the familiar and the safe.

The author even has to twist reality to explain to the young person why they can't make it - one reason is apparently because their car might break down and "unexpected things" happen, so you can't budget for your car breaking down ? Or another thing the author said, because the author doesn't think the young person can reduce expenses, so, what, someone who saves up 900k$us by the time they are 38 can be assumed to be living an extravagant lifestyle that is going to be hard to downsize ? Recently I listened to a radio discussion (I forget what station) about a couple who were trying to retire by 45 who were both riding bicycles 20+ miles to work to save their money, I'm not so sure they'd have a problem living on 35k$us/year. They weren't exactly living large, in fact the point of the discussion was about whether it was worth it to suffer for decades just to retire early.

Settlers who wanted to move west could never have settled with that kind of thinking. Many people went west by working in eastern cities and saving up their own grubstake and then setting off for the unknown with whatever equipment they had in their wagon - sure, they could have stayed in the cities and kept working, kept saving up, year after year, planning for every contingency, every possible emergency, but the west would have never been settled that way. At some point the settler simply had to say "enough", and leave.

I think people who set off to go cruising for extended periods of time (or for the rest of their days) have a lot of pressure on them to stay safe and to stay tied to the dock. To quote the author of the article mentioned above, "After all, even Thoreau's experiment with bare-bones living lasted only a little over two years" (supporting his conclusion), and that's societies message to you - you'll never make it, stay home with your feet near the warm fire where it is safe, don't be different, and don't you dare untie those lines. Edit - one thing is certain, setting off to go cruising certainly makes *other people* uncomfortable, and I think that adds to the pressure on potential cruisers to stay at home.

"You can sell your time, but you can't buy it back" - Unknown.


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## SecondWindNC

This is a great thread, and it's telling that so many different people have taken the time to write out their thoughts on it and give their input.

I've never had the experience of sailing off in search of the horizon in my own boat, and I may never get to, but in the meantime, I enjoy every minute I get to spend on the water in boats large and small, and I've been fortunate to have the opportunity to go along as crew on several offshore passages, and each of those trips is counted among my best memories.

Like most, I fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum in terms of what I feel I would want/need for extended cruising. Things like refrigeration and pressurized water I'd consider pretty much essential; air conditioning and a generator are luxuries I'd like to have, but not so necessary that they'd keep me ashore if that were all that was standing in the way.

Cruising is definitely something that's a matter of personal preference, and it's been great to read about the different ways people have achieved their dreams.

To go ahead and cut down on my rambling, the main reason I wanted to chime in was to point out that EPIRBs aren't just for disabled boats or inexperienced sailors with broken down engines. It's a required piece of safety equipment as far as I'm concerned, and I think most here would agree. When I was 16, I was checking messages at my dad's office while he was out on an offshore delivery. I got a message from the Coast Guard that his vessel had activated its EPIRB, and to call the CG as soon as possible. I can tell you that is not something you ever want to hear. Turns out there had been a medical emergency with one of the crewmembers. She was unconscious and unresponsive, and was only getting worse. The Coast Guard airlifted her to shore and to medical care, and it saved her life. You just don't know what's going to happen out there, and being able to alert someone ashore of an emergency aboard can be the difference between life and death.

Anyway, for now, I'll have to make do with just the occasional opportunity to go to sea. My next boat is more likely to be something along the lines of a Hobie 16 to use for short thrill rides across the river. But who knows, someday...


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## johnnyandjebus

Hello all

Great thread, I will have to go back to it tonight and read it thru from start to finish, as I am just breezing thru it now.

vega, smackdaddy. 
I hope you don't mind if I quote you in the future, very well said;

_Boat size and safety: To those who suggest that bigger is safer let me just mention "Titanic" and "Edmund Fitzgerald"._
Vega

_"By the way - I feel your pain, I'm a self-made thousandaire myself."_
Smackdaddy

vega I may have to get your quote engraved and hang it on the bulkhead of my contessa 26

John


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## TQA

What a great thread. I feel reluctant to add my ramblings to it but here goes.

Disclosure I am 62 years old retired and have been sailing dinghies since I was 15. At the age of 39 I bought a 22 foot trailor sailor and sailed it around the West coast of Scotland and down the Adriatic the following year. At 43 I was lucky enough to be in a position to take an extended sabbatical and cruised the North Atlantic and Caribbean for 7 years on a 38 foot steel boat costing £15,000 [It was a lucky find and a good buy] and a annual kitty of £5,000. I am just about to set off again on my forever boat.

Over the years I met many people on a huge variety of boats, nearly everybody was having a good time. The size of the boat did not matter.

But I did meet a few who were flying home, leaving their shattered dreams behind them and the boat for sale. Their boats were often large, full of gadgets and their owners relied on shore based maintenance services. Sometimes they had had a big fright, some realised they just had bought too much boat and some found they could not cope with that peculiar Caribbean concept often called "Island time".

My first two cruising boats taught me to be self reliant, to avoid having anything essential that I could not maintain myself, that repair manuals, tools and basic materials like sailcloth, aluminum sheet, gasket material and threaded rod were more important than perfect brightwork, a teak deck and a perfect holly splined cabin sole.

I devoured stories of cruisng boats from Swallows and Amazons to the Hiscocks. They were amongst the first cruising couples, their first offshore trip taking them to the Azores and back before setting of on 17 years of "Wandering" and two circumnavigations.



> The Hiscocks did not go to sea to experience hair-raising adventures. All of their voyages were carefully planned and flawlessly executed, with few surprises, and in the proper way for a middle-aged British couple seeking only personal tranquillity and the freedom of long ocean passages. In their quiet and competent way, without the fanfare of a Chichester or a Blyth, they came to epitomize, perhaps more than any yachtsmen in British history, the proper seagoing citizen.


Eric Hiscock disapproved of EPIRBS SSB etc saying if you choose to go offshore you should not rely on people coming to rescue at the risk of their lives if something goes wrong. I admire his resolve but did have an EPIRB and SSB and a liferaft on my 7 year wanderings around the Atlantic basin. I never needed them but my mother was glad I had them.

For my part I was glad I had a steel boat on two occasions the first when a whale played chicken with us for 4 hours, the second when we hit something big at night. While I did not have insurance I did have oversize ground tackle and a 100 lb storm anchor. I only deployed it once and it took me 7 hours of back breaking labour to recover it. I finally got around to fixing the anchor windlass after that.

If I could afford a brand new properly painted steel boat I would have another tin job with an Amel Super Maramu a close second [only 2 mil]. But a tough "old shoe" in fibreglass is my choice for my forever boat. I will make sure I can get to all the fittings and that nothing is hidden behind a fibreglass panel needing a sawsall to gain access.

I used a sextant in the past but GPS is great, If the boat comes with an electronic chart device I will keep it but paper charts are essential IMHO and I like to keep a running plot of our position on an hourly basis.

One thing that I added in my second years cruising was a powerfull hand held spotlight for the odd night time encounter with a strange boat. I will have another and make sure it is driven directly off 12 volts with a back up battery job.

Wherever possible everything will run off 12 volts and will be chosen for low current drain. Efficient refrigeration, LED lights etc. I shall have enough solar and maybe a little Honda 2 kw genny.

In the end of the day seamanship matters more than the boat and a positive mental attitude overcomes many shortcomings. I loved the story of the £200 millionaire as the sunset is the same regardless of the boat.


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## Cruisingdad

TQA said:


> What a great thread. I feel reluctant to add my ramblings to it but here goes.
> 
> Disclosure I am 62 years old retired and have been sailing dinghies since I was 15. At the age of 39 I bought a 22 foot trailor sailor and sailed it around the West coast of Scotland and down the Adriatic the following year. At 43 I was lucky enough to be in a position to take an extended sabbatical and cruised the North Atlantic and Caribbean for 7 years on a 38 foot steel boat costing £15,000 [It was a lucky find and a good buy] and a annual kitty of £5,000. I am just about to set off again on my forever boat.
> 
> Over the years I met many people on a huge variety of boats, nearly everybody was having a good time. The size of the boat did not matter.
> 
> But I did meet a few who were flying home, leaving their shattered dreams behind them and the boat for sale. Their boats were often large, full of gadgets and their owners relied on shore based maintenance services. Sometimes they had had a big fright, some realised they just had bought too much boat and some found they could not cope with that peculiar Caribbean concept often called "Island time".
> 
> My first two cruising boats taught me to be self reliant, to avoid having anything essential that I could not maintain myself, that repair manuals, tools and basic materials like sailcloth, aluminum sheet, gasket material and threaded rod were more important than perfect brightwork, a teak deck and a perfect holly splined cabin sole.
> 
> I devoured stories of cruisng boats from Swallows and Amazons to the Hiscocks. They were amongst the first cruising couples, their first offshore trip taking them to the Azores and back before setting of on 17 years of "Wandering" and two circumnavigations.
> 
> Eric Hiscock disapproved of EPIRBS SSB etc saying if you choose to go offshore you should not rely on people coming to rescue at the risk of their lives if something goes wrong. I admire his resolve but did have an EPIRB and SSB and a liferaft on my 7 year wanderings around the Atlantic basin. I never needed them but my mother was glad I had them.
> 
> For my part I was glad I had a steel boat on two occasions the first when a whale played chicken with us for 4 hours, the second when we hit something big at night. While I did not have insurance I did have oversize ground tackle and a 100 lb storm anchor. I only deployed it once and it took me 7 hours of back breaking labour to recover it. I finally got around to fixing the anchor windlass after that.
> 
> If I could afford a brand new properly painted steel boat I would have another tin job with an Amel Super Maramu a close second [only 2 mil]. But a tough "old shoe" in fibreglass is my choice for my forever boat. I will make sure I can get to all the fittings and that nothing is hidden behind a fibreglass panel needing a sawsall to gain access.
> 
> I used a sextant in the past but GPS is great, If the boat comes with an electronic chart device I will keep it but paper charts are essential IMHO and I like to keep a running plot of our position on an hourly basis.
> 
> One thing that I added in my second years cruising was a powerfull hand held spotlight for the odd night time encounter with a strange boat. I will have another and make sure it is driven directly off 12 volts with a back up battery job.
> 
> Wherever possible everything will run off 12 volts and will be chosen for low current drain. Efficient refrigeration, LED lights etc. I shall have enough solar and maybe a little Honda 2 kw genny.
> 
> In the end of the day seamanship matters more than the boat and a positive mental attitude overcomes many shortcomings. I loved the story of the £200 millionaire as the sunset is the same regardless of the boat.


Nice post.

Brian


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## hohulpho

I accept with information:
1) Autopilot. If youa re going to do any long distance sailing, I cannot imagine going without a windvane or autopilot (the latter having both its positives and negatives). I believe one of the two is a must. A windvane is prefered by many offshore sailors as it requires no power and does better in storms. The autopilot is preferred by many because it account for XTE and interfaces with a Chartplotter to make passages a breeze. They each have their positives and negatives, not to mention costs.

2) EPIRB. Don't leave home without it.

3) Solar/Wind generation. You are required to run lights at night, your electronics draw considerable power, even the bilge pump will pull 5 amps/day. Since most boats are limited in their capacity to incorporate many batteries (with 2-4-D's being typical), you have about 24-48 hours max without power regeneration of some type. Solar and wind can vastly increase the amount of time away from mechanical power generation. We did not have solar or wind on our 380, but we had a diesel generator. Solar is better - much better.


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## NICHOLSON58

Simple answer is circumnavigation is what happens when you cruise far enough. 

If your bucket list includes enough places you will have to follow certain well-traveled routs. Read Jimmy Cornell's "WORLD CRUISING ROUTS". You will by necessity be pushed seasonally to make certain way points and to avoid major storm zones by time of year. You can certainly hop off that train for a spin of the planet or two but you still need to get out of the way of the Hurricanes, cyclones, typhoons. 

Nice lists above by the way. I'm not sure of the order but these are the musts:
sextant & paper maps
life raft, EPIRB, manual water maker
water maker
lots of tankage both fuel and water
SSB, Pactor modem & printer
VHS (we have one on deck and one at the Nav station and a hand held)
Dink with enough HP to pull the boat to safety
Bimini or pilot house
self steer wind & Autopilot
solar and wind generation
Fridge & Freezer
Chart plotter
Radar
Plenty of good ground tackle. We presently carry 4 different anchors and 300 ft of chain on the primary. I am considering adding a ROCNA 55 KG

I've sailed since I was 10 on dozens of boats from boards through 45 footers. I raced for over 25 years on a variety of boats and very successfully with the same crew for 18 years. I highly recommend a long stay with a good crew of close friends. We are now making plans to retire and my Dear Wife suggested we find a boat large enough for comfort and safety and see the snow less places. We bought a hurricane damaged Camper & Nicholson 58 ketch and are three years into restoration. Hope to launch in the spring in Muskegon, Michigan. We will sail the Great Lakes for a few years to learn our boat in "friendly waters". We will exit the St Lawrence to the North Atlantic and turn right only according to the admiral, my DW.


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## Jim H

*In the go small, go now category*

Not that the 'go small, go now" category works for everyone, but I still enjoy hearing reports of such voyages.

You might find the final video installment of this journey interesting:

YouTube - Onkudu, part 17, Final

Basically, he's a young man with a small 21 foot Corribee pocket cruiser (The Unified Corribee Website) who took off in 2008 down the Thames to visit a relative on the southern coast of England. He found the adventure so engaging that he decided to continue the trip around Britain itself. (Having just read two books on this type of goal, I can assure you it isn't easy. Ellen MacArthur did it in a Corribee in 1995.)

Life and luck intervened, with piles of help from others along the way, but you should see the video to see how things turned out. In fact, there are 17 different videos about the voyage on youtube, if you are that interested.


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## Lendow

I think the reality is you do what you want and are capable to do. The boat can be well prepaired but realy I think 75% of sailing is the sailor's skills. Why not go where you want to go and enjoy life. Who cares if you make it around or not. I agree, a stop in Ireland and Azores etc would be great but I do not have to circumnavigate this planet. For those who feel they need to by all means knock yourself out. But don't do it for records or glory do it because you want to see the world.

To all Happy new year and safe cruising.

Cheers Len


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## chall03

TQA said:


> What a great thread. I feel reluctant to add my ramblings to it but here goes.
> 
> Disclosure I am 62 years old retired and have been sailing dinghies since I was 15. At the age of 39 I bought a 22 foot trailor sailor and sailed it around the West coast of Scotland and down the Adriatic the following year. At 43 I was lucky enough to be in a position to take an extended sabbatical and cruised the North Atlantic and Caribbean for 7 years on a 38 foot steel boat costing £15,000 [It was a lucky find and a good buy] and a annual kitty of £5,000. I am just about to set off again on my forever boat.
> 
> Over the years I met many people on a huge variety of boats, nearly everybody was having a good time. The size of the boat did not matter.
> 
> But I did meet a few who were flying home, leaving their shattered dreams behind them and the boat for sale. Their boats were often large, full of gadgets and their owners relied on shore based maintenance services. Sometimes they had had a big fright, some realised they just had bought too much boat and some found they could not cope with that peculiar Caribbean concept often called "Island time".
> 
> My first two cruising boats taught me to be self reliant, to avoid having anything essential that I could not maintain myself, that repair manuals, tools and basic materials like sailcloth, aluminum sheet, gasket material and threaded rod were more important than perfect brightwork, a teak deck and a perfect holly splined cabin sole.
> 
> I devoured stories of cruisng boats from Swallows and Amazons to the Hiscocks. They were amongst the first cruising couples, their first offshore trip taking them to the Azores and back before setting of on 17 years of "Wandering" and two circumnavigations.
> 
> Eric Hiscock disapproved of EPIRBS SSB etc saying if you choose to go offshore you should not rely on people coming to rescue at the risk of their lives if something goes wrong. I admire his resolve but did have an EPIRB and SSB and a liferaft on my 7 year wanderings around the Atlantic basin. I never needed them but my mother was glad I had them.
> 
> For my part I was glad I had a steel boat on two occasions the first when a whale played chicken with us for 4 hours, the second when we hit something big at night. While I did not have insurance I did have oversize ground tackle and a 100 lb storm anchor. I only deployed it once and it took me 7 hours of back breaking labour to recover it. I finally got around to fixing the anchor windlass after that.
> 
> If I could afford a brand new properly painted steel boat I would have another tin job with an Amel Super Maramu a close second [only 2 mil]. But a tough "old shoe" in fibreglass is my choice for my forever boat. I will make sure I can get to all the fittings and that nothing is hidden behind a fibreglass panel needing a sawsall to gain access.
> 
> I used a sextant in the past but GPS is great, If the boat comes with an electronic chart device I will keep it but paper charts are essential IMHO and I like to keep a running plot of our position on an hourly basis.
> 
> One thing that I added in my second years cruising was a powerfull hand held spotlight for the odd night time encounter with a strange boat. I will have another and make sure it is driven directly off 12 volts with a back up battery job.
> 
> Wherever possible everything will run off 12 volts and will be chosen for low current drain. Efficient refrigeration, LED lights etc. I shall have enough solar and maybe a little Honda 2 kw genny.
> 
> In the end of the day seamanship matters more than the boat and a positive mental attitude overcomes many shortcomings. I loved the story of the £200 millionaire as the sunset is the same regardless of the boat.


TQA Sorry I missed your post until now, thankyou for taking the time to add your two cents, as someone trying to embark on the cruising life your post was like pure gold!

Good luck with future endeavors on your 'forever boat'.


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## bloodhunter

*Why We Cruise*

Like many others, I've been reading this thread with great enjoyment but have been hesitant about adding to it - I mean what can I write that hasn't already been said better.
But here I sit, its 21 degrees with snow flurries; there's half a gale blowing outside, what better time to muse about sailing. So let's break out the rum and start out&#8230;
I've been sailing since I was five, that's 62 years now. I started with Penguins and wended my way up to my current boat - Enchantress. I've enjoyed racing starting with a Snipe hull #1849 which I naturally named Gold Rush to a C&C 40 , Satisfaction. I've owned 4 ¼ big boats ranging through a steel-hulled 37-ft ketch, a mahogany and oak Dickerson 35, a C&C 40, a Tartan 37C, and my current Morgan 45. 
I've sailed to Bermuda, navigating with sextant and site reduction tables, up the east coast from the Chesapeake as far as Frenchman's Bay in Maine and in the islands.
CD , when starting this thread asked about philosophies of cruising, which to me is the question of why do I cruise? What do I get out of it?
I don't want to go all mystical, but on the water under sail, with just the natural motion of the boat reacting to the wind and waves, the sound of the water hissing past the hull - I get peace, serenity, and a sense of where I belong in the universe. I need to get away from it all -- all being, television, cell phones, traffic, air and noise pollution&#8230; but not people. I could not be a single-hander. I'll take the boat out alone for day to sail and think but that's it. To cruise single-handed, I would be missing the sharing, the unity my wife and I have, especially on the boat. Leaving that would be leaving the best part of myself behind.
What do I consider cruising? I used to think of far horizons and exotic locales but not any more. After all, two-weeks gunkholing on the Chesapeake is as much cruising as two-weeks sailing to Bermuda. Hell, a while back my wife and I chartered a narrowboat on the British canals and cruised through western England and Wales for two weeks at 4 mph. It was really great, and we plan to do it again - that was as much cruising as sailing Enchantress from Antigua to the Chesapeake.
As for the boat, Enchantress would do very nicely for blue water cruising. She is strongly built with a full keel and she handles a seaway very well. Above all we have found her comfortable to live on for extended periods of time. What would I add - extra water tanks, a watermaker and a second solar panel. I'd also replace all my lights with LEDs. I would redo my survey of my power needs to see what we'd have to give up for extended cruising. And I would have every inch of her hull and rigging checked by a good marine surveyor before setting out and renew everything that needed renewing. 
I'm a firm believer in the KISS principle, but keeping things simple does not mean sacrificing comfort. I have no plans to give up my custom mattresses or my awnings and fans. My SSB radio can stay right where it is, as can my chart plotters. My life raft would be refurbished and returned to it's position in front of the dodger. I'd probably buy a couple of batteries for the EPIRB. However, keeping it simple means id don't rely on the chart plotters as my only means of navigation, or have sails that only can be handled by electric winches, or an electric windlass as the only way I can raise my big anchors. Keeping it simple to me usually means keeping it safe.
But would I do a circumnavigation? Most probably not. While I expect we will sail down to the islands, and maybe through the Panama Canal and then to Hawaii. Once we got to Hawaii I can see us saying 'Well since we're already out here&#8230;' and going off to the Pacific islands and then to Australia. But I don't have any burning desire to circumnavigate and I think we'd be much more likely to go back the way we came. Rather than face the Somali pirates or the roaring forties.


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## EnderBlair

I think there's something to be said form sailing either east or west until you end up where you started... if only to prove to yourself that the world is actually round.

I hope to do it someday. I'm an intermediate sailor, racing a lot on Olson 30s on the SF Bay these days. I want to get a small boat and do it single or double handed. I guess my philosophy could be described as minimalist. Perhaps this is by necessity, as I may never make enough money to do it "right," as the people with the Beneteau 45s might frame it. 

I think storm avoidance and great ground tackle are probably essential elements to any offshore sailing/cruising.


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## EnderBlair

Oh, and the blessings of Aeolus are clearly essential as well.


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## casioqv

Cruisingdad said:


> The items I feel are essential to cruising are:
> 
> 1) SSB
> 2) Radar
> 3) Chartplotter
> 4) Autopilot
> 5) EPIRB
> 6) Solar/Wind generation
> 7) Refrigeration
> 8) Tankage
> 9) Boat
> 10) Room for a tender


Other than #8/9 those sound like luxuries that are absolutely not essential to cruising, and most cruisers never have, or need. That stuff sounds like more hassle than it's worth, even if it were free (and I doubt that it is).

Even #8 is questionable- you *need* drinking water, but it doesn't have to be in a tank. 5 gallon water jugs work great for me. I don't see how one could cruise without a boat, so on that we're in agreement 

Food, water, and a seaworthy boat are all that is essential for cruising. Essential implies that if you don't have it- you shouldn't go at all.


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## Cruisingdad

casioqv said:


> Other than #8/9 those sound like luxuries that are absolutely not essential to cruising, and most cruisers never have, or need. That stuff sounds like more hassle than it's worth, even if it were free (and I doubt that it is).
> 
> Even #8 is questionable- you *need* drinking water, but it doesn't have to be in a tank. 5 gallon water jugs work great for me. I don't see how one could cruise without a boat, so on that we're in agreement
> 
> Food, water, and a seaworthy boat are all that is essential for cruising. Essential implies that if you don't have it- you shouldn't go at all.


I understand. The point of this thread were the things YOU feel are essential, which is why I reached out to a lot of different cruisers to see how they cruise and what their philosophies are. For example, you will find those that think I am being too light on my needs. There are others, such as yourself and Vega that are more minimalists. There is no right or wrong answer here, only opinions. I also asked that the posters outlie their experience cruising and background so that each person can get a feel for where they went and what their environment was like.

Brian


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## casioqv

Cruisingdad said:


> I understand. The point of this thread were the things YOU feel are essential, which is why I reached out to a lot of different cruisers to see how they cruise and what their philosophies are.


Brian,

As usual, you're too reasonable to have an argument with 

I want to go cruising as soon as possible, and I'm tired of purchasing, installing, and repairing equipment that's not essential. As it is, the essential items for basic safety are a stretch in the time and money I'm willing and able to put into my boat. If I were to expand the "essential" list beyond what is truly essential, actual cruising would never happen- certainly not in the next few years. To put this in perspective- I'm 25, have a full time job, and have an $800 Catalina 22 I found on Craigslist in need of major repairs. I trailer it with my $150 Volvo station Wagon. I'd like to take a weekend or week off here and there and gradually explore the Channel Islands. My total budget is probably less than most on this forum put into their dinghies.

This basically sums up my philosophy:

"Most of the luxuries and many of the so-called comforts of life are not only not indispensable, but positive hindrances"
Thoreau


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## oceanscapt

A Discussion of the Philosophies of Cruising and Circumnavigating

To *circumnavigate*, to navigate a circumference, such as an island, a continent, or the Earth, is to travel all the way around the edge, particularly when in control of the route taken.

I think that circumnavigating is a subset or maybe speciality of cruising, just is the Great Loop, European Canals, gunkholing the Gulf of Mexico or the Bahamas, or any other mode of travel that requires passage over portions of water. Each has its challenges, rewards, and proponents and you, the cruiser, cruise as you want.

I'm planning on a circumnavigation primarily because I've done the Med, Caribbean, Atlantic crossing, and have no desire to cruise the US East Coast. For me, the places I want to see are west and that seems to fit in with a circumnavigation. I've visited a good part of the Pacific just not on my boat, long enough, or to the locations I'd prefer. So, if I sail the Pacific and cross my outbound track (I'm leaving from the East Coast of the US), I can say with pride that somehow I did a circumnavigation.

Philosophy of my vessel -
I suppose I can be described as a dyslexic investor - I bought high and sold low.  As a result, I don't have significant resources to buy new or custom or top shelf. I also don't seen to have any luck with lotteries, getting struck by lightning, or finding the right boat, perfectly prepared, for $1.98.

A lot of boats have made the loop around and I'd be willing to bet that if it's been made for water travel, it's either gone around or across. The vessels may not have been "blue water" designed and some have barely made it, but cruising can be done in almost anything that floats.

I'm looking for an early 80's 40' +/- sloop/cutter with a better than average build and reputation. My research indicates that during this time fiberglass boats were generally overbuilt and while slower than today's similar sized vessels can take the weight penalties of long distances. 40' seems to me to be the dividing line between "fine to live aboard" and "this is really camping, not cruising".

40' seems about the max length for single or shorthanded sailing, a good compromise between cost of maintenance and performance, and small enough to be hauled most anywhere. I sailed for 9 years on a 37' Endeavour that was a fine boat on the hook but took more than a puff to get rolling.

I want a simple sail plan and for me that's (1) cutter or (2) sloop rigged. I'd like a hard dodger but will probably set sail with a fabric dodger and bimini. I prefer solar panels to the real dangers of a wind generator but know that both are the way to go. I want a simple interior and a well thought out suite of gear.

Gear -

well thought out navigation gear with single point failure duplicates (DGPS, autopilot, windvane, AIS, depth and speed instruments, binoculars, sextant, cruising guides, books, barometer, charts, SSCA bulletins)

laptop - 2 (primary navcomp, navcomp backup and data digestion) for navigation charts, WEFAX, GRIB files, email, Skype, articles, photos,

good tankage ratio (diesel to fresh water)
Manual fresh water pump for sink, electric for shower

DSC VHF
SSB/Ham - really want this but I've gotten by with a shortwave/general coverage receiver and good external antenna
Stereo - iPod interface, CD inteface, AM/FM

Medical kit with "Where there is no..." books

well thought out tool kit
well thought out spares and consumables provisioning

Intelligent food and beverage provisioning

Dinghy and outboard

Solar panels - 2
Wind Generator - 1
Large battery bank w monitor
Wind scoops, dorades, fans, LED lighting

Spare line, blocks, cars, rebuild kit for winches and windlass, sail repair kit
all chain primary rode, 100' chain w 3-strand for secondary rode, kedge anchor
deflatable fenders or rectangular foam fenders

Inflatable PFD/harness w jacklines
Flares
floating cushions
EPIRB
Life raft or means to quickly inflate dinghy

Fishing gear
Cooking gear

Stove - x burners with oven, propane with 2x 20# tanks
Fridge and maybe Freezer

Proposed plan (subject to constant change)

I'm looking to get the boat fairly well prepared. There are a lot of threads with details elsewhere but suffice to say I have 3 priorities: (1) keep the water on the outside; (2) keep the mast up; and (3) avoid, at all cost, hitting any of the hard stuff out there. For some reason, I never get the punch list completely done so when I think I've got the top 3 covered well, I'm heading out.

"Cruising is doing menial labor in exotic locations". As I sail, things will either need repair, modification or replacement. If I do one simple thing a day and a couple toughies a week it shouldn't get in the way of cruising. I'll work my way down the Bahamas then the Caribbean chain to Trinidad/Tobago to wait out the hurricane season, do any big repairs, and prepare for the run to Panama and through the Canal. The idea is to be on the hook in Panama City around the start of the prime time to make the Pacific crossing.

It seems to me that in order to cross the Pacific, having a Pacific Puddle Jump (kudos to Latitude 38) or Coconut Milk Run philosophy is a good way to avoid trouble. Chances are I won't be going the same route as these but crossing the Pacific takes planning, timing, and preparation. Hopefully, by the time I get to the Canal, the systems will be in top shape, the vessel and I will be in good communications, and I'll be ready and able to do cross the Big "O".

I plan to do a lot of cruising, anchoring, exploring, and traveling. And somehow, through the magic of cruising, all those day cruises can magically add up to a Pacific Loop, circumnavigation of South America, Great Circle Route, or Canals of Europe. But first and last, I'm a cruiser who just happens to have stumbled on an interesting collection of cruises that are something bigger.

Gratification -

I'm sailing solo or shorthanded, so it's probably easier for me to do this.

There are a lot of cruisers who head out, find a magical spot, get involved with the community, and spend significant time there. There are cruisers that come in broke, hump butt to refill the kitty, and take off. There are folks that cruise with family, kids, friends, or solo. There are cruisers who devote considerable time and expertise to helping out the community where they are anchored. There are cruisers who come in, stay quiet, and sail out.

Every one of them is a cruiser, not entirely because of their mode of transportation, but possibly as a result of their outlook. A lot of them are circumnavigators; sometimes multiple times, who've not written one word about their exploits. And "circumnavigator" can have a lot of meanings.


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## chall03

A really really good post Oceanscapt....


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## rgscpat

*More mind-numbing details on the philosophy of cruising "stuff"*

We've owned small boats and done inland and coastal sailing, with a few charters and have done the basic sailing classes through bareboat and coastal nav. We've also done a bit a club racing, race management, and safety training. We may get into more extended coastal cruising (up to 24 hours from port or 50 miles from land) in the next year; some friends are trying to persuade us to do the inside passage in British Columbia.

"Stuff flying around" and fiddle rails were mentioned. To that I'd add means of securing everything important: latches for drawers and cabinets, positive latches for cabin sole floorboards, a hold-down for the companionway boards, strong anchor points (pad eyes), etc. Positive, strong latching or locking for cockpit lockers. Strong latches for forehatch. Battery tie-down straps. And of course real seacocks, checked and maintained, with the soft plugs tied adjacent, double-clamped hoses, etc. Openable portlights should dog securely top and bottom and not leak even when "firehosed". Tie downs for shelves. And, for the crew, secure sea berths and lots of good hand holds.

Emergency stuff: Even for a "extended coastal cruiser", I'd have an EPIRB with GPS or at the very least a GPS-equipped PLB in lower-risk places. Sure, I won't go out with false confidence expecting to be saved from all stupidity. But, if I really run into trouble beyond what I can handle, I want to get help before subjecting me, my boat, and crew to needlessly prolonged hazard or suffering. And at the same time I want to minimize the time, expense, and danger to the people who are trying to help me.

Also, flares/signaling gear beyond the minimum...the cheapy 3 hand-held flare kit shouldn't be all that's aboard. Emergency water maker or solar stills (in ditch bag). Radar reflector of course. Cutters for rig, rigging knife on my harness or at helm. Jack line rigged toward windward midships in rough stuff, harness with double tether including short tether. Lights on life vests, of course, float coats or wet/dry suits, MOB pole / horseshoe buoy / Lifesling / spare hoisting rig. Basic easily accessible first-aid kid for routine crew use and heavier-duty first-aid kit. Boarding ladder. Fire-proofing lining for engine compartment, fire port or automatic extinguishing system would be nice.

Ditch bag -- accessible to cockpit, with flotation, with copies of ship's papers and personal identification (copies of passport info pages, etc.) in water-proof pouches, in addition to survival and signaling stuff. Spare eyeglasses or contacts, prescription medicines, personal necessities, emergency credit/debit card or pre-paid card.

Communication: Can't afford SSB right now but would get it if I were crossing oceans. Back up hand-held GPS. Would be nice to have back-up VHF antenna on stern rail in case main antenna fails or rig is lost. Modern base station VHF, of course. Solar-powered emergency chargers for cell phones, possibly for other communications that can be brought along in case of evacuation. Ship's bell, pump-up backup horn. Cheap phone card/local wireless access.

Navigation -- back up hand-held GPS. In addition to GPS and paper charts or chartbooks, have viewable electronic copies of charts on laptop and thumb drive. Binoculars, of course, and a nice portable searchlight, and various flashlights (electric torches), glow sticks. Radar would be nice if spending lots of time in fog but can't afford it now.

Back saver: electric winch, solid bow roller, fully adequate ground tackle with a good shot of chain as part of the rode. Snubbers, padding, no knife-edge chocks, adequate/enough cleats.

Sailhandling, steering -- most stuff led aft and run fair, easy reefing and dropping & flaking (Dutchman/lazy jacks). Big enough winches so petite spouse/crew could handle all loads. Turning blocks serviced/replaced. Bo'sun's chair or climbing rig. Sail inventory/rigging for light (whisker pole, cruising chute) and heavy (storm sails, multiple sets of reef points in main, probably a cut-down/undersized heavier main would be nice) conditions, efficient downwind work, sail repair materials. Would be nice if genoa could be removed from furler with minimum fuss in case of need. Autopilot, wheel lock, emergency tiller.

Mechanical, structural, rig, bo'sun's locker -- the usual spares, tools, consumables and I already mentioned cutters/rigging knife. Plenty of fenders, fender board, boat hook, spare ground tackle, Q & courtesy flags, club flags for seeking reciprocal hospitality, spare line and wire, swaging & riveting tools.

Raft/tender -- can't afford a life raft but already have a choice of a 6-person inflatable, 10' fiberglass hard dinghy, and two one-person kayaks.

Sybaritic luxury: a custom mattress or pad under our berths. Lots of fans. Lots of LED reading lights. Decent ventilation. Windscoop. Bimini, dodger, and side cloths for colder areas. Flopper stopper for rolly anchorages. Decent quality foulies... what we have now are inadequate. Spare foulies in drybag. Fishing gear and rail grill. Folding dock carts (the folding milk crate type or a collapsible wheeled pack) and maybe folding bicycle. Heady-duty modern insulation in refrigerator or icebox, with insulated lid. Bug goop/screens. Heater for when in port. Marina key with access to hot showers and laundry.

Not getting -- SSB, radar, wind vane steering (Monitor), life raft. These are the sorts of things I'd consider before crossing oceans. For long-haul short-handed sailing through busy shipping lanes I might also consider an automatic identification system (AIS) (at least an affordable receiver). Also rejecting -- freezer -- too much complication. Would be happy to do without pressure water but like having hot water.


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## rgscpat

*Steve Callahan and EPIRBs*



kwaltersmi said:


> .... I'm a bit jaded about EPIRB's after having read Steve Callahan's book Adrift. His EPIRB didn't help and he was constantly rationing it's battery life.


I suppose emergency beacons are more or less related to the philosophy of long-distance cruising...

Of course, Steve Callahan sailed from the USA in 1981 and abandoned ship in February 1982, so the emergency beacon technology wasn't anything like what we have nearly three decades later.

Steven Callahan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia says:

"EPIRBs were not monitored by satellites at the time, and he was in too empty a part of the ocean to be heard by aircraft."

Jean and John Silverwood's "Black Wave" describes the use and limitations of a more modern EPIRB. Their "Emerald Jane" cat sank at night on a remote atoll reef (possibly seriously mis-located on charts) out of Tahiti in on June 25, 2005, after they had begun a voyage in 2003. The initial signal from the EPIRB produced an emergency signal quickly but failed to send a GPS position; finally, after two or three hours their precise position was received. Rescue took about 12 hours and was just barely in time to prevent a death.

I think that one of the wonderful things about modern EPIRBs and PLBs is that, despite too many false alarms, they save time, fuel, and possibly the lives of rescuers by enabling lifesavers to search in a small or precise spot and find distressed sailors very quickly.


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## CaptainForce

From the mid-fifties to the mid-sixties I sailed little prams and a small sliding gunter rig in Ft. Lauderdale. In 1971 my wife and I bought a 30' Whitney in Annapolis and moved aboard. We've been liveaboard cruisers since that time. We raised our two children on Morgans and have cruised our current Morgan OI 41 since 1985. Our cruising style is the "cockpit potato" mode. We often spend the summer in Maine and take as much as three or four months to cruise to the Bahamas in the fall. Destinations are not committments and early afternoon anchorages are frequent. We have no goals to travel faster than the earth tilts it's axis for the sun's angle of incidence. We frequently sail without a destination and anchor where we left that same morning. We don't consume our ports and enjoy returning to our same forty to fifty harbors that we enjoy. Although we do not forsee an ocean crossing, we keep equipment and storage similar as most all posted above and spend as long as six weeks from a dock. Our essentials are: dinghy, outboard, radar, solar panel, wind generator, diesel generator, redundant ground tackle w/windlass, ample fuel-water-holding tanks, berths for guests, shoal draft, nav/communication toys and reliable propulsion with rig and diesel. We are definitely "cockpit potatos", but we own nothing ashore except our bank accounts. Take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## JohnRPollard

CaptainForce said:


> From the mid-fifties to the mid-sixties I sailed little prams and a small sliding gunter rig in Ft. Lauderdale. In 1971 my wife and I bought a 30' Whitney in Annapolis and moved aboard. We've been liveaboard cruisers since that time. We raised our two children on Morgans and have cruised our current Morgan OI 41 since 1985. Our cruising style is the "cockpit potato" mode. We often spend the summer in Maine and take as much as three or four months to cruise to the Bahamas in the fall. Destinations are not committments and early afternoon anchorages are frequent. We have no goals to travel faster than the earth tilts it's axis for the sun's angle of incidence. We frequently sail without a destination and anchor where we left that same morning. We don't consume our ports and enjoy returning to our same forty to fifty harbors that we enjoy. Although we do not forsee an ocean crossing, we keep equipment and storage similar as most all posted above and spend as long as six weeks from a dock. Our essentials are: dinghy, outboard, radar, solar panel, wind generator, diesel generator, redundant ground tackle w/windlass, ample fuel-water-holding tanks, berths for guests, shoal draft, nav/communication toys and reliable propulsion with rig and diesel. We are definitely "cockpit potatos", but we lown nothing ashore except our bank accounts. Take care and joy, Aythya crew


Outstanding!! I like your philosophy. 

I also like your phrase "cockpit potato" -- never heard that one.   But it's a good description of how we sail, when we're out for our comparatively short weekend or vacation jaunts.


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## cormeum

Late to the party, but I'll add some thoughs:
We're "cold water" sailors (Maritimes, Labrador, Great Lakes) and at least as of now, I have no desire to go to the tropics. When I retire, my dream is a Greenland- Iceland- Faroes- Scotland kind of trip or maybe the NW passage (which may be ice free then:laugher ). Due to the differing weather conditions I've experienced, some things are pretty high on the list:

Radar (sailing in day after day of fog can really suck)

Heat (more of an issue than AC for obvious reasons- Even the northern Lakes get pretty cold in the Summer) We have a solid fuel fireplace but I lust after a Webasto hydronic system- mmmmm, heeeeaaatt!

A decent autopilot (our boat isn't set up for a windvane) so therefore batteries and charging systems are more of a concern

I've been kicking around the idea of FLS (forward looking sonar) but won't be going back to "icy-land" anytime soon so that's on hold.

I've been ambivalent about chartplotters but would consider them a "nice to have". Ill agree that paper can get bulky on a long cruise. I'll probably wind up getting one down the road. (probably still keep the paper though)

If the boat sinks under me I'd like to have an EPIRB and a liferaft (they all suck to varying degrees but what's the alternative?)

Harnesses, jacklines etc. Finding a corpsickle is no fun, you gotta stay on the boat.

So I'm sort of a middle of the roader when it comes to creature comforts, good foulies , a good heater and good books are enough for me. TV is anathema but CD's are nice.

Offshore, SSB/Ham is really useful (as well as inshore when you're in the middle of nowhere). In the really high latitudes (further than I've gone) SSB doesn't work well so someone might consider a satphone- I never had one.

GPS- good to have, don't rely on it (Damn it's convenient). I'd love a gyrocompass (Big $$$) Sperry has a ring laser gyro (no moving parts)that if someone could get the price down would be just the thing(Hint Hint Hint )- Sperry gouges for everything they make as far as I can tell. I don't have a solution to this one but a good magnetic compass and a good variation chart worked for most (fine for us up to the low 60's N.)

So in the philosophy department, spend the money to minimize risk to the boat and crew, go light on the creature comforts.


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## sailusvi

just checking in....


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## kevandraper

Having cruised 10 years ago for 25,000 miles, I now have the opportunity to go again ( recent divorce). Am currently looking for something to single hand 36-40ft. As far as the yacht is concerned , something with a full keel and reasonably sturdy. Kit wise, Radar with alarm.........to be able to sleep on crossings, HF to be keep in touch with friends and weather nets. Self steering is a must. Solar or wind to keep the batteries charged. Somewhere comfortable and airy to sleep. Some space this time. 85% of the time you will be at anchor or in a marina. Would like a liferaft , even an older one just in case. Never had problems before with water so no need for a water maker, no need for a generator, solar and wind kept my batteries absolutley full. My vote for the best peice of kit has definately got to be self steering, aries, monitor etc. I doubt I touched the wheel from Aussie to Japan, "humphrey" my faithfull old aries drove us all the way !!


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## sailingdog

Ken-

You'd really be better off starting your own thread or posting in a thread with a topic closer to what you're looking to find out answers for. I'd highly recommend you read the *POST* in my signature, to help you get the most out of sailnet.


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## smackdaddy

kevandraper said:


> Having cruised 10 years ago for 25,000 miles, I now have the opportunity to go again ( recent divorce). Am currently looking for something to single hand 36-40ft. As far as the yacht is concerned , something with a full keel and reasonably sturdy. Kit wise, Radar with alarm.........to be able to sleep on crossings, HF to be keep in touch with friends and weather nets. Self steering is a must. Solar or wind to keep the batteries charged. Somewhere comfortable and airy to sleep. Some space this time. 85% of the time you will be at anchor or in a marina. Would like a liferaft , even an older one just in case. Never had problems before with water so no need for a water maker, no need for a generator, solar and wind kept my batteries absolutley full. My vote for the best peice of kit has definately got to be self steering, aries, monitor etc. I doubt I touched the wheel from Aussie to Japan, "humphrey" my faithfull old aries drove us all the way !!


Hey kev - welcome to SN dude.


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## blt2ski

smackdaddy said:


> Hey kev - welcome to SN dude. And whatever you do, don't read Dog's post.


+2!!!


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## tdw

Brian old man, smile sweetly and give a hearty cheer as we wave old Floyd goodbye.


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## blt2ski

I was wondering if mr Floyd was not a spoon full of sugar spammer! Glad to know the wombi got him, and not the tongue licking cavy! the wombi put him out of his misery MUCH quicker! LOLOLOL


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## jameswilson29

I consider myself to be a typical, casual, weekend sailor on the Chesapeake Bay, who enjoys the occasional extended cruise. I have crewed on other people's racing boats. I have spent as much as 9 consecutive days cruising aboard a small sailboat and have done a coastal hop from Cape May, NJ, to Cape Charles, VA. I doubt I would ever circumnavigate as I have to work for a living and support a family. I would like to do more extended coastal cruising and perhaps sail to Bermuda one day.

My sailing philosphy is KISS (Keep it Simple Sailor) and MOTB (Master of the Basics). I find it challenging just to maintain and control the basic systems on a relatively small sailboat, particularly while singlehanding. I am amazed at folks who will venture out in large sailboats that depend on technology, electronics, and extensive mechanical devices to function. I like the natural, romantic, poetic ideal of sailing, the way folks sailed 50 or 100 years ago - celestial navigation, oil lamps, mechanical self-steering, no refrigeration, no reliance on the engine or a generator, and certainly no GPS, roller furling, computerized mapping, etc (I do use a compass, navigation lights, inboard diesel, depth gauge and speedo).

I believe a sailor should still be able to handle his boat after all the modern technological devices and systems have broken down. It seems as if many of the problems we read about on sailnet involve sailors who are not able to do this because of their reliance on technology, complex systems, and convenience/comfort items.


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## Me Tarzan

Thanks to everyone who participated in this most excellent thread! A good read from start to finish.


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## melee401

Radar, no radar, AIS etc. and some questions here.
OK so you are doing a trans an crossing from W to E from anywhere USA to Anywhere EU. 
Smallish boat like 30-35 feet whatever. 
If your path of sail is not along a major shipping lane then why once you are a few days out would anyone lose sleep over not having a radar or AIS?
I mean c'mon, if your that lucky to be run over in the dead of night 140 miles out and on a heading not for a major shipping lane your lottery payoffs by now should have at least allowed you to do it in grande style,,,,,like a 110' Perini with a crew to stand watch. 
Barometers still work in this digital age and so too do RF rigs. A fully opened up Icon 706MKII or one sold outside the US with a decent antenna tuner can provide boatloads of fun and information and double as a primary VHF rig too. 
I guess after logging well over that proverbial 10K on the sea I am still missing something here.


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## Brent Swain

As a kid, I was delivering papers in Saskatchewan in minus 40 weather, to people who obviously hated their lives, and had one I wanted nothing to do with, when I read an article about a couple who sold a small logging outfit , built a boat, and cruised the South Pacific.
"THATS IT" I thought, and the die was cast.
After finishing school , the main focus was getting a boat and heading out. A year later I bought a 36 ft ferro hull, finished her off, and at the ripe old age of 23, I headed, single handed, for New Zealand, green as a cucumber, with some pretty funky gear. I noticed that those who took longer than three years to get some enjoyment out of their project, were far less likely to ever go. Freinds, who insisted on nothing but the best, never made it. That was my first boat. By the time she hit the water, I wished I had done everything different. She was a 36 footer, far larger than I needed. As I worked for tiny Kiwi wages, I began to envy the guys in the 30 footers, as life seemed far simpler for them.On my second boat, it took 8 years before I reached that point. On my current and third boat, a 31 ft steel twin keeler, after 28 years, there is little I would do differently. I have always made quickly getting out cruising, and off the land, my main focus, then adding and embellishing later, as funds allowed. I always started out with Kerosene lamps, then wired my current boat, my first boat with any kind of electrical system, over time, while cruising, as needed. Ditto most electriclal equipment.
I have made many Pacific crossings, and cruised almost all the South Pacific Islands which have ever interested me, as well as cruising 11 months a year on the BC coast since my mid 20's. I cant think of any other lifestyle which would let me semi retire in my mid 20s, on only a labourers earning power. I can't think of any other comfortable lifestyle with as as low an environmental footprint, your environmental footprint being porportionate to how much money you spend. If I had to do it all over again, I would't choose to live my life any differently. I envy no one.
Now, over many decades, I have accumulated all the gear I was planning to buy, when I won the lottery, without having to give up much free time to get it. Glad I didnt wait for it, before going cruising..


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## barefootnavigator

Hey guys, I'm 44 and have been a constant on the water front since 1986 ie a long time. I see a very interesting trend in boat size and equipment. Its been my experience that almost all of the big fancy boats with all the fancy new must have "safety equipment" Are all financed, ie the bank owns them. The smaller less equipped boats tend to be owned and maintained by the sailor. If you have time payments on your boat its because you cant afford it. For allot of us sailing represent freedom and freedom comes with a price. I have owned 11 boats since I was 18 and payed cash for every one. So my question is how many of you own your boats? Some people might not understand this but if you are making payments you don't own your boat, the bank does.  The whole point of this question is that allot of people here seem to think you have to be a consumer to be a voyager when infact its the opposite.


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## xort

Different strokes for different folks


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## Brent Swain

barefootnavigator said:


> Hey guys, I'm 44 and have been a constant on the water front since 1986 ie a long time. I see a very interesting trend in boat size and equipment. Its been my experience that almost all of the big fancy boats with all the fancy new must have "safety equipment" Are all financed, ie the bank owns them. The smaller less equipped boats tend to be owned and maintained by the sailor. If you have time payments on your boat its because you cant afford it. For allot of us sailing represent freedom and freedom comes with a price. I have owned 11 boats since I was 18 and payed cash for every one. So my question is how many of you own your boats? Some people might not understand this but if you are making payments you don't own your boat, the bank does.  The whole point of this question is that allot of people here seem to think you have to be a consumer to be a voyager when infact its the opposite.


I have never paid a penny of direct bank interest in my life, and have always owned outright any boat I have ever had.


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## tdw

I'd find it rather strange to set off around the world or on a life of full time cruising in a boat that was not owned outright and I am not at all in favour of borrowing money to buy a boat. However if all you plan is to weekend sail and maybe an annual holiday cruise or alternatively liveaboard but maintain full time employment then why on earth would you not consider borrowing to buy boat ?


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## smackdaddy

I own my current boats outright. But I'll most likely borrow for our ocean boat. Doesn't bother me a bit.


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## lavidanueva

Life is short and then it is too late. Go early, don't worry about having the biggest and the most, someone always has something bigger and grander. If that is what you are about forget sailing and devote your life to building a big inheritance for your grandchildren. Maybe they will have the wisdom to live life fully. You can find a yacht that will work for you, esp in this soft market. Sometimes the extra toys leave you in the repair business instead of the adventure business. A lot of people wished they had gone cruising, and you can be one of those.


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