# Chain size



## DBASailor (Jan 14, 2012)

I'm upgrading my boat and buying a windless and all chain rode. But how to size the chain. I have a C&C 39, which loaded down might weigh about 25,000lbs. What size chain is appropriate. I'd like to go with the cheaper BBB chain. What size and type of chain to you recommend.


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

DBASailor said:


> I'm upgrading my boat and buying a windless and all chain rode. But how to size the chain. I have a C&C 39, which loaded down might weigh about 25,000lbs. What size chain is appropriate. I'd like to go with the cheaper BBB chain. What size and type of chain to you recommend.


Acco (or equal) 3/8" BBB will do but you'd do better, with less weight in the bow, and likely not much greater cost, with 5/16" G4...


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## IStream (Dec 15, 2013)

+1 on the 5/16" G4.


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## DBASailor (Jan 14, 2012)

How much chain do most people buy if they want an all chain rode? 300 feet? 400 feet? More?


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

200 ft of chain attached to 200 ft of rope is what I use. The rope gets used in deep anchorages 60 ft +.

5/16th or 3/8 will both do the job.


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## DBASailor (Jan 14, 2012)

Is there any advantage to all chain?


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## DBASailor (Jan 14, 2012)

What is I said my boat loaded down might weigh as much as 30,000 pounds, would you still say 5/16 inch G4 would be the way to go?


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

DBASailor said:


> Is there any advantage to all chain?


Oh no!! This is one of those topics where opinions abound.

The best thing to do, on such common topics, is to use the search function. You will get a lot more information in a lot less time. Anchors and chains have been flogged to death.

AYBC recomends 2400 pounds working stength for a 40' monohull, though for durability most sailors go up one size, inspite of the fact that the AYBC guidline is already conservative. Thus, 5/16" G4 is a common suggestion. 1/4" G70 would meet the requirement, but is a more unusual choise.

There are 3 reasons for all chain:
1. won't cut
2. feeds through the windlass better (the rope/chain splice can be a problem)
3. the weight helps the anchor wet and helps it stay

The down sides are:
1. weight
2. cost
3. less shock absorption, specifically in shallower water (a long snubber can solve this)

I've used both and favor ~ 100 feet of chain backed by rope for my boat, but it will be a long discusion.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I can sleep on all chain. The idea of all rope chafing or the rope splice onto chain being the weakest link, just doesn't do it for me.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

dbasailor said:


> what size and type of chain to you recommend.


5/16 g4


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Why all chain well I have a picture of a rope anchor rode that chafed through in less than an hour.

This was in Dominica and there was a piece of coral and an old mooring roughly where the rode was. 

The boat owners had to flag down a boat boy and head out to sea to recover their boat.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TQA said:


> Why all chain well I have a picture of a rope anchor rode that chafed through in less than an hour.
> 
> This was in Dominica and there was a piece of coral and an old mooring roughly where the rode was.
> 
> The boat owners had to flag down a boat boy and head out to sea to recover their boat.


There are a couple of anchorages around here where the towing companies stand in wait for a boat to drag, let alone chafe and let go. They monitor both ch16 and the local harbor master, if there is one. The moment another anchored boat calls to say someone is dragging down on them, they have all the justification they require. If you are ashore when it happens, its a salvage and they lay claim to 10s of thousands in salvage rights.

I'm sure some have tried to debate whether they were dragging, but that third party call probably seals your fate. It would not be uncommon for a boat with all heavy chain to believe a boat with all rode or rode/chain is dragging, because rope will be pulled straight as it swings, even in low winds, while all chain will not.

Another great reason to be running an anchor app on a tablet or smartphone that keeps a persistence line to prove exactly whether you did or not.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

There is an advantage to the 3/8" and that is the weight helps with the hold. There is an obvious trade off with wanting the weight in the water and not wanting it when it is on the boat. I re-rigged our boat so the chain is about four feet further aft than originally. Helps a bit I am sure but I did not see a huge problem when it was further forward.

The amount of chain very much depends on where you plan to sail. To take an extreme case, in the Bahamas you do not need much at all. We have 200' with 300' or rope attached. In the Caribbean the chain was perfectly adequate. In parts of the Pacific, Easter Island, Pitcairn, some parts of French Polynesia, I wished I had 300'. There were't many of those but in an exposed spot like Easter where the water is over 50' you appreciate all you can get.

When you are buying, look for good prices on full barrels and half barrels. We found the best deal was West Marine because they would deliver for free to your local store, plus they had quite good prices on a half barrel (200') of BBB. I know that ACCO is better than Chinese chain, but I have not been impressed with the galvanizing.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

killarney_sailor said:


> There is an advantage to the 3/8" and that is the weight helps with the hold.


This has been disproven from the standpoint that you are better off putting the extra weight into more length. (And by extension, put any planned kellet weight into a bigger anchor instead.)

Scope is king, and when a chain is bar-tight, it doesn't matter much what it weighs. Those conditions that make your chain bar-tight are the same conditions where you'll wish you had more scope.

Regards,
Brad


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## DBASailor (Jan 14, 2012)

I'm thinking 300 feet might be a nice round number. Are there any other that have more than 300 feet of chain?


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

There's some good reading at this site. And it's a good reminder to factor in the height of your bow roller above the water.

The Most Critical Factor in Anchoring? Scope!

We have 60' of line at the end of our chain. It gives shock absorption and helps keep the chain off the bottom of the anchor locker. Not sure that last part is important, but I can picture better drying out of the anchor as a result.

Regards,
Brad


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Bene, our 200ft of all chain, sits on a raised floor on the bottom of the locker, with holes to drain. I've seen rode begin to rot when buried for extended periods. Mildew and dirt from the chain have to work on the fibers over time.

I would like to have 300ft and believe the boat would be just fine with the extra weight. If not, I'll just add a bigger dinghy on the other end.  kidding


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

pdqaltair said:


> Oh no!! This is one of those topics where opinions abound.
> 
> (snip)
> 
> ...


pdq-

2400lbs SWL for a 40' monohull of what displacement? Designs vary wildly and there are some pretty light and pretty heavy boats out there.

Can you please post a link to that AYBC recommendation?
It's not that I doubt you, I'm just curious at how they arrived at that SWL number, for that length, and what the displacement is.

Thanks.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

I have seen some pretty spotty galvanization over the last couple of years, even from Acco. Wherever you purchase from inspect the whole chain before accepting delivery.


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## IStream (Dec 15, 2013)

Minnewaska said:


> Bene, our 200ft of all chain, sits on a raised floor on the bottom of the locker, with holes to drain. I've seen rode begin to rot when buried for extended periods. Mildew and dirt from the chain have to work on the fibers over time.


I like the perforated floor idea but as a stopgap, I put a sacrificial coil of old three strand at the bottom of my locker to keep the chain off the bottom. Seems to work and it's fast and cheap.


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## doug1957 (Dec 13, 2011)

Where are you sailing? If it's somewhere with lots of mud and you're gunkholing, the disadvantage of lots of chain may outweigh the advantage of 100 ft of chain and 200+ feet of rope and dealing with the occasional windlass issue.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

DBASailor said:


> Is there any advantage to all chain?


One advantage that has not been mentioned is that chain is self-stowing. It just drops from the windlass (or, as in my case, your hands) into a self-generated heap and is ready to be pulled up again. Can't do that with rope, it needs some kind of coiling/stowing.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> One advantage that has not been mentioned is that chain is self-stowing. It just drops from the windlass (or, as in my case, your hands) into a self-generated heap and is ready to be pulled up again. Can't do that with rope, it needs some kind of coiling/stowing.


No, at least not in most cases. I let it just pile in the well for years on 2 different boats. Coiling, on the other hand, invites tangles.

However, I do like the way all-chain feeds though the windlass. That is the deal-maker for me. If I wanted less weight, I would go G70.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

pdqaltair said:


> No, at least not in most cases. I let it just pile in the well for years on 2 different boats. Coiling, on the other hand, invites tangles..


If you have a well perhaps you can pile it up and hope for no knots or tangles. In my case I have a hawsepipe on the foredeck through which the rode falls into the chain hold. It is difficult to feed a rope in there (hard to push on a thread!), I have tried it. And if a tangle builds under the hawsepipe, you are screwed.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Bene505 said:


> This has been disproven from the standpoint that you are better off putting the extra weight into more length. (And by extension, put any planned kellet weight into a bigger anchor instead.)
> 
> Scope is king, and when a chain is bar-tight, it doesn't matter much what it weighs. Those conditions that make your chain bar-tight are the same conditions where you'll wish you had more scope.
> 
> ...


I certainly am not suggesting you go short on scope at all. To me a good long, heavy chain is better than a good long, light chain. Bar tight chain is not nice and I don't think we have ever had it. Talked on the SSB with some folks who were anchored at Easter Island and had 12 foot swells in the anchorage. They had some bar-tight happening in spite of very long scope. When we there we had about four feet as I remember (too rough to go ashore). Can only imagine 12 feet (and be glad we were there a week earlier).


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> If you have a well perhaps you can pile it up and hope for no knots or tangles. In my case I have a hawsepipe on the foredeck through which the rode falls into the chain hold. It is difficult to feed a rope in there (hard to push on a thread!), I have tried it. And if a tangle builds under the hawsepipe, you are screwed.


I am a big fan of all chain but have lots of rope attached to the 200 feet of chain for those 'special' occasions. Our rope has enough mud incorporated into it that it is now not all thread-like and pushes pretty well. Still not nearly as nice as chain. We have to be careful when the chain-rope splice is going around the gypsy on the way down.


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## windnrock (May 27, 2012)

I have a 41' Bristol. Loaded she is about 30,000 lbs. We use 350' of 3/8 G70 to a 77 lb. Rockna as our primary and 175' of 5/16 G70 on a 65 lb. CQR as a secondary. We also have a 70 lb Danforth with 300' of 3/4" double braid and another 300' section for the para anchor or reserve. For giggles there is also a 25' section of 1/2" chain if we feel we need more weight. So far, even in 50+ knots, we haven't moved. Had to reset more than once in a couple of spots but so far we have not dragged. That would be the point I guess! If you and your boat can handle it, the more weight you put down the better. We have been hit by other boats that were grossly under anchored. It would also greatly depend on where you plan to travel. For example, gunkholing in the Chesapeake you need, at most, 75' of 5/8" three strand on a Bruce for those 7' deep, mud bottom creeks.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

DBASailor said:


> Is there any advantage to all chain?


You can sleep well at night. That is you are not worried about some line chafing through in the middle of the night or any other time when things get nasty.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> One advantage that has not been mentioned is that chain is self-stowing. It just drops from the windlass (or, as in my case, your hands) into a self-generated heap and is ready to be pulled up again. Can't do that with rope, it needs some kind of coiling/stowing.


That's my favorite reason for all chain. With an electric windless, it's just easier to get it up, and properly set up, you don't really have to do anything but hit the switch.

When I use line/chain rode, I have to sit by my windless and tail the line on the capstan in to big heaps on the deck, then pause to shove it all into the locker every few seconds.

The chain just goes thump-thump-thump-thump into the locker.


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