# Mid-size daysailer with large cockpit



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

By the apparent dirth of these on the market, I'm going to guess that the type of boat I think I want has not been popular with a mass market. I'm OK with that.

Probable use: daysailing for singlehand thru 6 adults, enough cabin to let kids get out of the sun or use the head/port-o-pot, lakes/bays/protected waters, try my hand at PRHF racing (preferably with spinnaker), trailerable a plus; bigger is better for wife, friends/family and kids as passengers

Other: used; do not mind hands-on maintenance but do not want a wooden hull; sit in not sit on; prefer sloop and cutter, do not prefer (sorry if I offend) catboats and catamarans

Boats I've been thinking about (with cockpit length): Chrysler 20 (9.5 ft), Capri 22 (8-9 I forget), Colgate 26 (11 ft) - like the size but may be out of my pricerange

Which boats should be on my list that I'm missing? Comments from owners of these boats would be very welcome. Thanks!


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## baboon (Aug 7, 2008)

In most respects your list is on the mark. Precision, hunters etc will also work. The issue will be finding any trailable boat that you can sail with 6 on board. Boat trim will be a challange with 900lbs of people in the back. Almost all small boats have tillers, reducing sitting area while sailing. Six at the dock for lunch might work. Most people, including kids, will not be happy in interior of these size boats for any period of time. I am sure others will chime in with other options. Good luck!


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## Tortuga12 (May 10, 2008)

*Cal 20*

Friend of mine has one, big comfy cockpit, and sails very well!


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

Rainbow.
Rainbow 24 Sailboat Sail boat Rainbow Tidewater Chingachgook YMCA


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## Hesper (May 4, 2006)

If the cabin/port-a-potty isn't too important, have a look at the Rhodes 19. LOTS of cockpit space and nice and deep/safe-feeling.


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## Quickstep192 (Jan 6, 2001)

Two boats immediately spring to mind. One is the Quickstep24. I have one and it's great for most of the things you describe except racing. It's quite stable, has a big cockpit (I don't know about for *6* adults, but certinainly big), it's heavily built and easy on the eye. It's reasonably responsive, but sacrifices light air performance for stability. With a PHRF rating of 240 it might not be a satisfying racer. It has a modest cabin that would sleep two adults and two kids in reasonable comfort. It might sleep 4 adults but two of them would be uncomfortable.

The other is the Alerion express 28. Many of the same attributes as the Quickstep, but with a bump in performance, size and in price.

Quicksteps were made in the 80's and can be had in the $12k range
Alerions are more recent and used boats go in the $60k-$80k range


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## craigimass (Feb 23, 2009)

Rhodes makes the Mariner, which is the same boat with tiny cabin. Very nice boat.

I had pretty much the same checklist and just bought a Precision 18, although I would have been tempted if I found a great Catalina 22, etc.

As you would expect, new are vastly more than used....BUT, if you have the $$ and can make a sweet deal (most makers WILL do do now), then you can expect a very good resale value if kept in top shape...at least for the first 10 years or so.

I, and also others here, suggest paying cash.......and not going into debt for toys like this. If that is not possible, perhaps a really low interest rate based on home equity...as opposed to a boat loan....with a LOT down, to avoid the future trap of owing more on the boat than it's value.


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## craigimass (Feb 23, 2009)

Oh, didn't see the racing criteria...that is going to limit you perhaps to a class design of some sort.......


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## somers12 (Nov 8, 2007)

A Chrysler 22 or 26 might suit your needs. A 22 has adequate sitting head room down below, while the 26 has standing head room. They stopped making them in 1980, but you can still find them fairly cheap. They sit at least 4 in the cockpit and sleep up to five. 22 has a porti-poti and the 26 an enclosed toilet area. Both are swing keel and trailerable. Very good support through owners at:
Chrysler Sailors Home Page
I have a 22 and it's a good boat, especially for beaching.

Steve


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Add the Sonar to your list.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The Soling would be another good choice.


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## AE28 (Jun 20, 2008)

Quickstep192 said:


> Two boats immediately spring to mind.
> The other is the Alerion express 28. Many of the same attributes as the Quickstep, but with a bump in performance, size and in price.
> Alerions are more recent and used boats go in the $60k-$80k range


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

I would second the Sonar. It is a good bit more user-friendly than the Soling. It has a cuddy, comfortable contoured seats, and is raced without having to resort to extreme hiking. If you are going into that size range, a used J/24 might be less expensive than a Sonar, and extend your cruising range considerably too. The question is whether a keelboat like these will work for you.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks for the useful replies. Good suggestions about boats I haven't noticed yet. I also found today that a Ranger 20 or 22 might work and there seems to be more of them than Chrysler 20s. Anything with a keel and a handicap is OK for the local beercan races I'd be interested in. Only one design keelboat action near me is J/24 and Catalina 22.

Will be paying cash for this boat. Dream boat right now is something like e33 or one of the Aelerons, but I want to try a trailerable first. I want to have the option of taking my boat to the Texas coast, without a hauler and an oversize permit.

Others in our family have power boats and routinely take 6-10 people out for a ride and swim. I have been thinking about sailing with a bigger group than most seem to be able to accomodate with small sailboats. Or, do you ask some guests to go forward on deck? Railmeat, anyone?

Maybe a non-cabin option is two Buccaneer 18's and we can race each other!


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

onespd said:


> Thanks for the useful replies. Good suggestions about boats I haven't noticed yet. I also found today that a Ranger 20 or 22 might work and there seems to be more of them than Chrysler 20s. Anything with a keel and a handicap is OK for the local beercan races I'd be interested in. Only one design keelboat action near me is J/24 and Catalina 22.
> 
> Will be paying cash for this boat. Dream boat right now is something like e33 or one of the Aelerons, but I want to try a trailerable first. I want to have the option of taking my boat to the Texas coast, without a hauler and an oversize permit.
> 
> ...


Six is a lot on any sailboat under 32', unless it's a racing crew with (as you say) plenty rail meat. It's hard to stow that many abovedecks comfortably without people trodding on lines or sitting on the low side.

Funnily, Chrysler claimed the Bucc18 fits six adults. Ummmm... no. The darn thing has 7" of freeboard to start with, it's tender as hell, and I can't imagine the terror of sailing with six in any wind strong enuf to move that many passengers. And you DON'T want to be on the foredeck of that boat, ever. On the plus side, you could buy a matched pair for the price of a 32-footer's genoa.


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## scottyt (Jul 19, 2008)

if you throw out the racing and trailering look at a hunter 27 1975 to 1983. the cockpit will seat 6 easily, it has a head and a huge saloon.

if you want racing i dont know anything about it.

i dont know much bout the hunter 25 of the same era but it might be worth a look.

here is one just to show the looks and size, it is trailerable. but i dont know about the racing part. the cheribini designed boats are very solid1982 HUNTER HUNTER 25 sailboat for sale in Georgia


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## billangiep (Dec 10, 2003)

Doesn't completely meet your criteria but I bought this Watkins 17' on the cheap.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Well

The trailer thing really knocks out a lot of the larger boats in your budget unless you dont mind spending and hour plus when you launch and and hour plus when your done.

I have been there and done that and it wears out pretty quick 

I really cant think of any small boat that is going to do the 6 people thing without a whole lot of moving around every tack


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## WouldaShoulda (Oct 7, 2008)

I've seen 6 in a Flying Scot.

Seems like 4 should be max though...


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

You should add the Oday Tempest to your list. A 23' Rhodes design, the cockpit is very large, the cabin is small, and the lines are sweet. Finding one in good shape may be a chore, but they can be had very cheap.


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## sahara (Dec 15, 2006)

If trailering is not really big, I would consider the Rhodes 19 (smaller) or an old Pearson Ensign (bigger, at 22 feet).

The Ensign is actively raced, has a cockpit larger than most 30'ers, the cockpit is deep, secure and comfy, with a working jib she is easy to singlehand, there are many active racing fleets, and they should be available fairly cheap. Unlike many boats, you sit _in_ the cockpit, not _on_ it.

Good luck with whatever you choose.


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## drynoc (Jul 17, 2001)

*Priorities*

I think you are going to have to make some choices to narrow the selection down a bit. I can't tell which way you are leaning, but if you want to seat six and use it as a day sailor, you may have to look bigger. For example, my Santana 35 is perfect for that kind of thing - that's what I use it for. That lets out trailering, obviously, and may cost more than you want to pay. All those small boats that everyone else are suggesting are great daysailors, but not for six people. And if you manage to get that many people in them, they will have to sit perfectly erect, and the boat will be so weighed down you won't be able to move.


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## captainmurph (Feb 12, 2009)

*Yes on the Chrysler 20*

The Chrysler 20 is a wonderful boat; I still wish I had mine.

The cockpit is HUGE. They are initially stable with that 8' beam, but can move along well in a good breeze. I particularly loved the "big boat" rudder (not transom-hung) which allowed me to comfortably stand at the helm in the sole of the cockpit.

They can sometimes be hard to find, but are worth the look. They are well-made, comfortable and enjoyable boats.

Murph


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

You should consider a Shark as well:

SharkBytes | Shark Sailing | Shark One Design | Shark Sailboat | Canadian Shark Class Association | International Shark Class Association


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## hriehl1 (Aug 8, 2007)

I had the exact same needs as you as a move-up boat from our 17-foot O'Day Daysailer. We wanted easy trailering, launch / retrieve and especially a large enough cockpit for 6 (The DS maxes out at 4).

The Chrysler 20 was the closest I could find, but upon test-sailing it, it was just too much of a dog for this dinghy sailor. Plus, we had no real interest in any kind of cabin since we daysail only... but the cockpit was very generous (though with all passenger weight in the rear, I think this boat would really squat with 6 aboard). I've also read the thru-the-sole rudder is trouble-prone.

Then we discovered the Paceship P20 (www.paceship.org)... unquestionably the biggest cockpit I've found in a centerboard planing-hull trailerable (850 pounds). It has an 8-foot beam but launch / retrieve is still only about 20 minutes for my wife and I (in our mid-50s).

Buccaneers are great performers, but no way they'll hold 6. Others in the larger open-boat / daysailer category you might look into are:
Rhodes 19 / Mariner
Interlake
Highlander
Flying Scot

None come close to the P20 for cockpit space, but all will out-sail the P20.

Good luck


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

How bout a Tanzer 22? If fits several of your critera but I don't know how trailerable it would be.


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## messenger (Oct 21, 2006)

North American Spirit 

Since you are in Texas, these were made in Austin way back when, and are as plentiful there as I would suppose anywhere. I have one on a double axle trailer...sails and trails like a dream to me. When I tie up next to a Cat 22, I think I'm on a 25 footer. I used it as a trainer. It didn't give me 2 foot itis...it gave me 12 foot itis.


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## seafrontiersman (Mar 2, 2009)

My Watkins 23 has been a great boat. It's cheap, rugged, stable, comfortable, and forgiving of mistakes. It is a centerboard design which can be beached and draws only about 20" fully loaded. 

My only complaint is that she is a little slow on a beat but otherwise my Watkins 23 is just awsome!

Hope this helps!

Michael


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## gonesailin40 (Sep 6, 2007)

of all the boats I have sailed or owned the 23 Oday tempest was the most forgiving and enjoyable


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## sailingmum (Feb 28, 2009)

ensign 23


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