# Mistake #4: *Getting the Wrong Catamaran for Your Voyaging Agenda.



## dhlamar (Jan 22, 2015)

Never sailed before but looking to get into the lifestyle gradually and then in 11 years I hope to retire and be quite experienced. Would be cruising up and down the Chesapeake Bay and maybe to Bermuda until retirement then island hopping in the caribbean after that. Would an older model Leopard 40 be overkill for this agenda or would a newer model Gemini 105c be enough for this?


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

Gemini is a nice little boat but more of a coastal cruiser...I would take the Leopard if I was sailing to Bermuda. However, Gemini's have crossed oceans.

Phil


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Not knocking the Gemini but really it is chalk and cheese. I'd most certainly take the Leopard but there is a pretty big price difference twixt the two even if the Leopard where a few years older than the Gemini ?


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

Maybe you'd be better served to get the experience, and then it is not only possible, but likely, that you will contemplate boats other than Leopard and Gemini...

BTW: what are mistakes 1-3?


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## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

Perhaps charter both and find out which one is the best fit for your intentions.

The Gemini is smaller, cheaper to operate and cheaper slip rates at marinas, but more than 6 people on board is crowded, 4 is comfortable, and easy to single hand, fits under most bridges on the ICW.

The Leopard is larger, will cost more to operate (everything is bigger), will not have as many options for marina slips, 8 people on board is not crowded, more difficult to single hand, and does not fit under many ICW bridges.

Offshore the Leopard is the better boat, but the Gemini with limitations is also capable of blue water sailing.


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## dhlamar (Jan 22, 2015)

Yorksailor said:


> Gemini is a nice little boat but more of a coastal cruiser...I would take the Leopard if I was sailing to Bermuda. However, Gemini's have crossed oceans.
> 
> Phil


What is the actual definition of a coastal cruiser?


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

dhlamar said:


> What is the actual definition of a coastal cruiser?


A Hobie cat?


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## dhlamar (Jan 22, 2015)

Ulladh said:


> Perhaps charter both and find out which one is the best fit for your intentions.
> 
> The Gemini is smaller, cheaper to operate and cheaper slip rates at marinas, but more than 6 people on board is crowded, 4 is comfortable, and easy to single hand, fits under most bridges on the ICW.
> 
> ...


Looking at videos on YouTube I notice most people motor on the ICW instead of sailing why is that?


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## dhlamar (Jan 22, 2015)

Multihullgirl said:


> Maybe you'd be better served to get the experience, and then it is not only possible, but likely, that you will contemplate boats other than Leopard and Gemini...
> 
> BTW: what are mistakes 1-3?


The 14 Biggest Mistakes When Purchasing a Used Catamaran and How to Avoid Them


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Catalac. Priced less than a Gemini, tougher than a Leopard.


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## smj (Jun 27, 2009)

Ulladh said:


> Perhaps charter both and find out which one is the best fit for your intentions.
> 
> The Gemini is smaller, cheaper to operate and cheaper slip rates at marinas, but more than 6 people on board is crowded, 4 is comfortable, and easy to single hand, fits under most bridges on the ICW.
> 
> ...


Gemini should fit under all ICW bridges. Leopard under most, but would have some trouble in the panhandle of Florida.


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## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

It is because it is frequently narrow and the wind can be blocked in places. But, there are many wide areas where people do sail. When I used to do deliveries, I would often sail when I could.



dhlamar said:


> Looking at videos on YouTube I notice most people motor on the ICW instead of sailing why is that?


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

jzk said:


> It is because it is frequently narrow and the wind can be blocked in places. *But, there are many wide areas where people do sail. * When I used to do deliveries, I would often sail when I could.


I would amend that slightly, to _"there are many wide areas where people COULD sail..."_

You were the exception... In my observation, a rather small percentage actually _DO_ ...

;-)


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

dhlamar said:


> What is the actual definition of a coastal cruiser?


No good definition. However, people generally refer to weaker hulls and rigging and, perhaps more quantifiable, less tankage, which would make it harder to be very far from shore for very long.

I sort of look at it this way. I believe you can't really predict weather much more than 3 days out. Is it a boat I want to be more than 3 days from shore upon, or not.


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## dhlamar (Jan 22, 2015)

Minnewaska said:


> No good definition. However, people generally refer to weaker hulls and rigging and, perhaps more quantifiable, less tankage, which would make it harder to be very far from shore for very long.
> 
> I sort of look at it this way. I believe you can't really predict weather much more than 3 days out. Is it a boat I want to be more than 3 days from shore upon, or not.


Well what about sailing to Bermuda and the Caribbean from the east coast is that considered open water sailing cause I personally consider that to be coastal cruising, I might be wrong but don't want to buy to much of a Cat if I don't have to.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

dhlamar said:


> Well what about sailing to Bermuda and the Caribbean from the east coast is that considered open water sailing *cause I personally consider that to be coastal cruising,* I might be wrong...


Uhhh, you would be wrong about that...

;-)


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

dhlamar said:


> Well what about sailing to Bermuda and the Caribbean from the east coast is that considered open water sailing cause I personally consider that to be coastal cruising, I might be wrong but don't want to buy to much of a Cat if I don't have to.


Bermuda is a serious crossing that has some very unpredictable weather. The Bahama and near Caribbean can be done with careful weather windows.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

dhlamar said:


> Well what about sailing to Bermuda and the Caribbean from the east coast is that considered open water sailing cause I personally consider that to be coastal cruising......


Ain't no way. It's on the short end of the spectrum, but its the real deal.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

No worries for those waters, just read here:

http://www.noonsite.com/General/Med...family-rescued-after-catamaran-breaks-in-half


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Personally I can't imagine the discussion. "I've never ridden a horse, but I'd like to know what sort I should get to cross the great divide in 11 years."

I'd start by learning to sail a small boat now. You might hate it, or you might love it but decide a monohull is better for you.

Sail.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

Start by going sailing, then learn to sail, then get out your catamaran wallet. that is the one with two compartments full of money. then buy a catamaran that is half the size of the mono hull you can afford, with half the space, and twice the dock fees. did I mention go sailing first and see if you like it and want to make it your lifestyle.


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## dhlamar (Jan 22, 2015)

JonEisberg said:


> Uhhh, you would be wrong about that...
> 
> ;-)





miatapaul said:


> Bermuda is a serious crossing that has some very unpredictable weather. The Bahama and near Caribbean can be done with careful weather windows.
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk





Minnewaska said:


> Ain't no way. It's on the short end of the spectrum, but its the real deal.


First of all let me start by saying the obvious that I know nothing about sailing but I have watched lots of videos on YouTube so I'm kinda of a semi expertl 
But from the coast of NC to Bermuda how long is this trip and from the coast of florida to the the Bahamas (I believe that's the closest island) how long is this trip?


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

A good addition to your nautical library for finding out the answers to many of your questions:
World Cruising Routes (7th revised edition) by Jimmy Cornell


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

dhlamar said:


> ......But from the coast of NC to Bermuda how long is this trip and from the coast of florida to the the Bahamas (I believe that's the closest island) how long is this trip?


I don't mind the questions, but they are a bit dreamy. Not too hard to do some simply math either. It's 700 nm from NC to Bermuda. So...... How fast is the boat? How well and from what direction is the wind blowing? Do you have sufficient fuel tankage to maintain a minimum speed, if the wind isn't blowing? What's the Gulf Stream doing?

As for the Bahamas being the closest island, it's a chain of about 700 islands, not an island itself. Approx 70 of them are inhabited year round. Bimini is the closest to FL at around 50 miles. You can get there between dawn and dusk in most boats, if the above conditions are in your favor.

So, go give sailing a try. If you like it, then buy the boat you need for 90% of the sailing you're going to do. Even if you become a competent open water sailor, you're still not going to do multi-day passages very often.

Now, if you're really just trying to stir the pot, I will show you how it's done......

There is no catamaran ever invented that I would want to be stuck on during a survival level offshore storm.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Eastern USA to Bermuda and the Caribbean is very definitely offshore and those passages are often the recipient of some really nasty storms that whip up from nowhere. 

There are lots of people cruising happily on small catamarans but the owners would be the first to tell you they are SLOW on passage especially to windward when the Caribbean two step is running. This is a short steep sea that seems specially designed to stop small cats dead and get them hobby horsing. 44ft plus is the way to go but they do cost a fair bit to buy and operate.


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## Subaqua (Jul 14, 2013)

I wouldn't say a catamaran is slow on all passages but agree.. To windward, into steep seas, you will be slowed down quite a lot when the hulls take the plunge. Yesterday, down to 40deg apparent, waves hitting us at about 20 deg, in this Leopard 39 (37 1/2') small cat, fairly flat.. 3' chop,white caps, 18-21knts apparent, 1 reef in main, full jib (furling lock didn't hold), we were consistent 6.3 to 7 knts. Up to 8 knts nearing 60deg apparent. We did get into 35deg apparent and maintained 5 knts but only because the wind sometimes picked up and the seas were fairly flat. Nose on 5' flat faced waves, the story would be different. I would have been telling you about how little fuel the yanmars sip.


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## TropicCat (Oct 14, 2008)

dhlamar said:


> First of all let me start by saying the obvious that I know nothing about sailing but I have watched lots of videos on YouTube so I'm kinda of a semi expertl ....


Semi expert? I'm almost speechless .....

There can be no catamaran recommendations at this stage. Buy a trailer sailor monohull and learn what sailing is all about. Shop for a deal and you should be able to use it and learn on it, and sell it for close to what you paid.

In 9 years, you could come back here and ask questions again... but you probably won't have to ... 

Just sayin..


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Well I kind of agree with the trailer sailer thing [ maybe not 9 years ] but others have bought catamarans and set off with little experience.

Google bumfuzzle for one pair of happy circumnavigators.


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## i_amcdn (Jul 4, 2012)

TQA said:


> Well I kind of agree with the trailer sailer thing [ maybe not 9 years ] but others have bought catamarans and set off with little experience.
> 
> Google bumfuzzle for one pair of happy circumnavigators.


Also check out Zero to Cruising! . Go back tho their first blog entry and spend a half day reading up to now in their journey from 2008 to learn to sail, buying their PDQ and life in the Caribbean since.

It starts here We must be crazy! | Zero to Cruising!


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## hellsop (Jun 3, 2014)

bljones said:


> Catalac. Priced less than a Gemini, tougher than a Leopard.


They are indeed solid little boats, and well-laid out for their size. But the "priced less" usually stems from that the ones that are out there for sale are typically the 8meter ones, or about 6 feet shorter than the Geminis, which means more motion, and more rapid motion changes. Once you get up to the 10m ones, the price starts getting pretty comparable between the two, and there's probably 30 times as many Geminis for sale in Florida alone as there are anywhere in the world for the Catalac 10m, much less anything bigger.


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## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

i_amcdn said:


> Also check out Zero to Cruising! . Go back tho their first blog entry and spend a half day reading up to now in their journey from 2008 to learn to sail, buying their PDQ and life in the Caribbean since.
> 
> It starts here We must be crazy! | Zero to Cruising!


I just talked to those guys briefly on Friday since we were anchored next to them.


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## 123456Wannasail654321 (Jun 14, 2010)

dhlamar said:


> What is the actual definition of a coastal cruiser?


it kind of up tp the person.

for me.

You cruise the coast. you leave your marina slip go into protected waters (bays sounds etc... sail for the day and return home. Or you go "outside" on nice days sail up and down within sight of land, turn around when the wind climbs up and motor back. The boat itself is laid out for this. not a lot of tankage, or a longish weekend where you sail from you marina to a nice tourist destination (like catalina Island etc.) and back home.

the boat itself is not heavily built. it can take a blow say 30 knots, but not for a long time like several days. If in a prolonged blow (say 2 days )in open water it would start to break things. not because it a bad boat but its not where it was meant to be for that kind of weather. its not meant to handle prolonged wind, waves and rough motion for a long time.

I see a coastal with chain plates attacked to the deck with no backing plates, where a heavier boat has backing plates AND attached directly to the stringers which are attached to the keel. and the hardware itself is "beefier" etc.

any way.

I own no boat
I have never sailed
this is my opinion. which cost you exactly nothing
you get whay you pay for!


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