# Proper Crimping = STRONG! (crimp vs. solder)



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Proper Crimping = STRONG!*

Hi all,

I'm in the process of writing another article for my web site and thought I post a couple of photos that might be an eye opener for some. While I was not surprised by this I'm going to guess some will be.

I used an adhesive lined heat shrink butt connector and a two lengths of 10ga marine grade UL listed tinned wire. To make the crimp I used a pair of Ancor Marine ratcheting crimper's that are specifically designed for crimping heat shrink connectors. The crimpers are model #702010 and can be seen here: Ancor Heat Shrink Crimper

I wanted to show how strong properly executed crimps are, for the many who doubt the strength. I decided the best way to show the strength would be to hang a couple of my anchors (my Rocna and my Super Max) from the crimped butt connector. These two anchors weigh in at close to 70lbs..

I think the photos speak for them selves.

The Crimp:








The Connection:








The Strength:


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

That's impressive! I'm a believer. Thanks for posting the photos.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Ok, I stepped it up!!!*

I just went out to the barn and dug out a couple more anchors!

This photo shows the same crimp as above but this time with FOUR anchors a Rocna 33, Super Max 35, Spade A-80 (15lbs) and a Fortress FX-16 (10lbs).

This crimped connector is holding about a 93 lbs. of static load!









P.S. You can not execute a proper & strong crimp with cheap crimper's hardware store grade crimper's...


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Halekai, seeing the state of tidyness and readiness in which you keep your boat made me think you were a "details guy", but this is experimental data of the first order. Thanks for broadening my perspectives.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

I think it's important to note that strength of the connection and it's electrical properties can be mutually exclusive. Certainly, doing both doesn't hurt but simply looking at the strength of the connection is not a good indicator of anything, particularly the integrity of the electrical bond or it's water resistance.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

halekai,
It's really winter, isn't it? (g)

I've said elsewhere, but will repeat again, I've pulled sixty pound submersible well pumps out of the well from a depth of 150' on the pump wire, 12Gg., alone. The motor leads are attached to the pump wire via sta-cons and shrink tubing similar to that seen in halekai's photos. And that pulling involves dynamic loading of the splice, not just static loading. And those sta-cons are crimped using just Klein pliers.

I can see why some might prefer the clear shrink tubing, but I prefer the heavy wall black myself. You'll not find the heavy wall at WM or any other marine outlet I've seen.

If you are looking for quality at a good price, you can find the crimp sta-cons and the heavy wall black, as well as the clear, at a well-drilling supply house. The clear often comes in packs of three pre-cut pieces with three sta-cons and will run you about $2.50 retail per pack. The heavy wall black comes in 1 foot lengths or longer at about $4 the foot, retail. Prices do vary widely depending on supplier, so it's worth checking. Sta-con's can be bought for about $5 the hundred.

If you want to make a splice of similar nature, but not use heat, you can purchase "re-usable" shrink tubing that is silicone impregnated. Not all well-drilling supply houses carry it. It has the appearance of the normal shrink tubing upon completion, but does not require shrinking to fit. While initially quite sceptical of it, I found it works quite well, although I've never re-used it. At the cost involved in pulling a pump, it's just not sensible to gain such experience at a customer's possible expense.

Bear in mind that these splices I make are on submersible pumps and they spend their life completely submerged with anything from ten feet to two hundred feet of water over them. I pull them out every day after thirty years of submergence and still doing fine. I'd be lieing if I didn't tell you though, that you can make as good a splice with a sta-con and three wraps of Scotch 88 electrical tape. It will be significantly longer and takes practise and skill to properly execute. It's what we used to use before shrink tube came along.

A great post and practical demonstration, halekai! Now quit fooling around and get the driveway shovelled out! (a vbg)


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Halekai ...How about a dynamic test with Sway tying said wire around his neck and jumping off something about 8 ft. high?


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## lharmon (Jul 26, 2005)

Thanks for the great lesson. Pictures are worth a thousand words and you have drummed the need for crimped splices into my head. Now I have to buy the crimpers.

Thanks for a great post and taking the time to share.

LH


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

lharmon said:


> Pictures are worth a thousand words and you have drummed the need for crimped splices into my head. Now I have to buy the crimpers.LH


These are the crimper's I use. These crimper's are designed specifically for use with marine grade heat shrink terminals. They will not damage the heat shrink and will yield a very, very strong, cold formed, crimp. This pair is distributed by Ancor Products and are called the "Single Crimp Ratchet Tool" Part No. 702010. I paid about $55.00 for this crimper at Hamilton Marine in Portland, Maine.

*Use these:*








*Not crimper's like these:*


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Halekai-

What you really want is the Ancor 702015 Double Crimp tool, not the one you're using. The main difference is that the 702015 has two sets of crimping jaws, one for the wire and one for the insulation strain relief. The one you are using, the Ancor 702010 only has a single set of jaws.


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## badsanta (Oct 16, 2006)

IHARMAN, how do you like that max anchor???


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

sailingdog said:


> Halekai-
> 
> What you really want is the Ancor 702015 Double Crimp tool, not the one you're using. The main difference is that the 702015 has two sets of crimping jaws, one for the wire and one for the insulation strain relief. The one you are using, the Ancor 702010 only has a single set of jaws.


SD that's exactly correct! I'm using a single crimp tool that's specifically designed for heat shrink fittings! There is NO need to use a double crimp tool on heat shrink terminals and Ancor specifically makes or sources this tool specifically for crimping the heat shrink connectors so you don't damage the heat shrink with the sharper edges of the double crimp jaws.

I DO own a double crimper and use it for non-heat shrink connectors as it's dies are designed specifically for non-heat shrink insulated terminals.

*Here's my set of double crimper's:*








*The smooth, well machined, jaws of my "heat shrink" crimper's (read no ripping the heat shrink):*








*The crimp:*








*The crimp after heat shrinking:*








*And again, the evidence shows that I used the right crimper!:*









Yes I can buy the proper heat shrink dies for my "double crimper's" but swapping dies is a PITA..


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Actually*



badsanta said:


> IHARMAN, how do you like that max anchor???


Actually that Max anchor pictured is mine not IHARMAN's..

My honest assessment is that it's slightly better than a CQR but still far behind the much better performing anchors like my Rocna, Spade or Manson Supreme. For the price I'd have to say go for a Rocna or a Manson Supreme!


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Did you actually do the same test using a soldered connection with the heat shrink applied likewise - I surmise it is not necessarily the crimp giving strength as much as what the heat shrink contributes....just curious as the heat shrink bonds to the wire's insulation and therefore provides strain relief....


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Halekai-

I think cabin fever is setting in...


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

artbyjody said:


> Did you actually do the same test using a soldered connection with the heat shrink applied likewise - I surmise it is not necessarily the crimp giving strength as much as what the heat shrink contributes....just curious as the heat shrink bonds to the wire's insulation and therefore provides strain relief....


I did not because any soldered connection installed on a boat, to comply with ABYC, must first be affixed mechanically before being soldered. So if I crimped a non-insulated terminal, then soldered it, then used adhesive liend heat shrink it would only add to the strength.

The reason I'm not showing soldered connections in my article is that 99% of the soldered joints I've run into on boats were made incorrectly. Soldering is a learned art and crimping is an easy skill that can be learned in about an hour.

Here's what the ABYC has to say:
* "Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit."11.16.3.7."

"Solderless crimp on connectors shall be attached with the type of crimping tools designed for the connector used, and that will produce a connection meeting the requirements of* *E-11.16.3.3." 11.16.3.8."*


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

sailingdog said:


> Halekai-
> 
> I think cabin fever is setting in...


No doubt! We partied a little to hard last night with some friends and this is how I worked off my hangover today. Oh, and I cleaned the barn too..


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

halekai36 said:


> Here's what the ABYC has to say:
> * "Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit."11.16.3.7."
> *


The heat shrink is a mechanical connection as well and therefore would abide by the ABYC rules... Whilst in the Navy as an Electrician - never did we crimp wire - we soldered them with the heat shrink applied...Think you are missing out on the comparison (Soldering is not that difficult and takes maybe more than an hour - to learn to do properly but not difficult by any means)..Since the thread does state - "Crimp versus Solder).....none the less good work...


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

artbyjody said:


> The heat shrink is a mechanical connection as well and therefore would abide by the ABYC rules... Whilst in the Navy as an Electrician - never did we crimp wire - we soldered them with the heat shrink applied...Think you are missing out on the comparison (Soldering is not that difficult and takes maybe more than an hour - to learn to do properly but not difficult by any means)..Since the thread does state - "Crimp versus Solder).....none the less good work...


Jody,

When doing my research for this I spoke at length with the tech department at Ancor Products. I asked, and they told me, that heat shrink is NOT considered a mechanical connection under ABYC standards. I know how to solder, and have done a ton of it, but most folks don't do it right and from what I see tend to lack the capacity to fully understand soldering for what ever reason.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

halekai36 said:


> Jody,
> 
> When doing my research for this I spoke at length with the tech department at Ancor Products. I asked, and they told me, that heat shrink is NOT considered a mechanical connection under ABYC standards. I know how to solder, and have done a ton of it, but most folks don't do it right and from what I see tend to lack the capacity to fully understand soldering for what ever reason.


Then riddle me this then? How is crimping not a single mechanical connection? Because it is crimped at two ends - it is still a singular device holding them together... thus technically a single mechanical connection - no more or no less than a soldered joint.... While tech support may say something (I doubt they fully understand ABYC anymore than most)- I would err on the side that if you did the crimp without the heat shrink - less results because technically the heat shrink provides a secondary mechanical connection (where it counts by bonding to the insulation)...

That is my opinion tho...and I'll leave it at that ....


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

artbyjody said:


> Then riddle me this then? How is crimping not a single mechanical connection? Because it is crimped at two ends - it is still a singular device holding them together... thus technically a single mechanical connection - no more or no less than a soldered joint.... While tech support may say something (I doubt they fully understand ABYC anymore than most)- I would err on the side that if you did the crimp without the heat shrink - less results because technically the heat shrink provides a secondary mechanical connection (where it counts by bonding to the insulation)...
> 
> That is my opinion tho...and I'll leave it at that ....


I'm actually testing your theory as we speak. I even went so far as to clean the ends of the wires jacket with Acetone to make sure I'd get good adhesion. The photo bellow shows a heat shrink only connection. I did not crimp it. I'm letting it sit for a while to fully cure before I load test it.. I'm just as curious as you are about the strength of the heat shrink alone?


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

I think I am having tool envy, my crimps came form Target.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

*The primary difference is that a crimped connection can not come apart if the circuit is overloaded and the wire starts to heat up...since the crimped connection won't be affected by the heat. A soldered connection could easily come apart, since solder only retains it strength if it isn't heated to the point where it softens or starts to melt.* That is why a soldered connection isn't considered to be mechanically fastened and a crimped connection is.

Then you would have two physically hot bare wires, one of which was electrically hot more likely than not, waving around the inside of your boat. If it is hot enough to soften the solder connection, it is more than hot enough to cause problems with the heat shrink and adhesive, which would also soften under heat.  



artbyjody said:


> Then riddle me this then? How is crimping not a single mechanical connection? Because it is crimped at two ends - it is still a singular device holding them together... thus technically a single mechanical connection - no more or no less than a soldered joint.... While tech support may say something (I doubt they fully understand ABYC anymore than most)- I would err on the side that if you did the crimp without the heat shrink - less results because technically the heat shrink provides a secondary mechanical connection (where it counts by bonding to the insulation)...
> 
> That is my opinion tho...and I'll leave it at that ....


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

halekai36 said:


> I'm actually testing your theory as we speak. I even went so far as to clean the ends of the wires jacket with Acetone to make sure I'd get good adhesion. The photo bellow shows a heat shrink only connection. I did not crimp it. I'm letting it sit for a while to fully cure before I load test it.. I'm just as curious as you are about the strength of the heat shrink alone?


Thanks  Just as curious as you....and hence why I pose the contradictory comments (for once not trying to be an ass)....


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> *The primary difference is that a crimped connection can not come apart if the circuit is overloaded and the wire starts to heat up...since the crimped connection won't be affected by the heat. A soldered connection could easily come apart, since solder only retains it strength if it isn't heated to the point where it softens or starts to melt.* Then you would have two physically hot bare wires, one of which was electrically hot more likely than not, waving around the inside of your boat. If it is hot enough to soften the solder connection, it is more than hot enough to cause problems with the heat shrink and adhesive, which would also soften under heat.


If it is hot enough to melt a soldered connection - it will certainly be hot enough to melt the aluminum that is used in the crimps..or cause them to expand to give way....I do not see how that is a valid argument actually....


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Did you solder the connection??


halekai36 said:


> I'm actually testing your theory as we speak. I even went so far as to clean the ends of the wires jacket with Acetone to make sure I'd get good adhesion. The photo bellow shows a heat shrink only connection. I did not crimp it. I'm letting it sit for a while to fully cure before I load test it.. I'm just as curious as you are about the strength of the heat shrink alone?


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> Did you solder the connection??


Its a test to see the mechanical strength of just the heat shrink alone...to prove disprove or find inconclusive my points on it being a mechanical connection.(the heat shrink)..


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Jody-

Proper marine crimp terminals are tinned copper, not aluminum or steel. The melting point of aluminum is 1220 degrees, well above the melting temperature of most solders, which is only 360-400 degrees. The melting point of copper is almost 2000 degrees... *So, exactly how is heat enough to melt solder a problem for aluminum or copper crimp fasteners???*



artbyjody said:


> If it is hot enough to melt a soldered connection - it will certainly be hot enough to melt the aluminum that is used in the crimps..or cause them to expand to give way....I do not see how that is a valid argument actually....


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> Jody-
> 
> Proper marine crimp terminals are tinned copper, not aluminum or steel. The melting point of aluminum is 1220 degrees, well above the melting temperature of most solders, which is only 360-400 degrees. The melting point of copper is almost 2000 degrees... *So, exactly how is heat enough to melt solder a problem for aluminum or copper crimp fasteners???*


If it gets that hot (over 120 degrees) - you have bigger issues my friend - the wire and insulation itself will suffer the impact..well before it effects the joint. Rule of thumb if a wire is too hot to touch - something is definitely wrong....unless you are dealing with commercial applications...


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Results are in!!*

Ok from the time I made the connection I let it cure for about 40 minutes which should be more than enough time for the adhesive lining to cure.

The heat shrink held my 10lb Fortress anchor with no problem and only minimal stretch.









I then tried my 16 lb. Spade A-80 anchor and the connection failed before I could even turn around and get my camera!

So the failure point is somewhere between 10 and 16 lbs. static loaded.

As you can see in this picture the jacket stretched, got thinner due to elongation, and pulled away from the adhesive. I had stripped that wire just like I would have had I been crimping it and before the failure there was a lot more wire showing. If you look close you can see the remaining adhesive beginning to fail on the end that did not come apart.









P.S. Jody, a proper marine grade termination is NOT made of aluminum but rather tinned copper!!

















P.S. Type 3 marine wire is rated at a max operating temp of 105c or 221 degrees F. The actual melting point of the jacket is significantly higher and closer to that of solder.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Now, you're just dodging the issue... this is probably why the ABYC specifications require mechanically fastened connections... If the circuit does have a problem and the wiring heats up to 400 degrees, you don't want the wires coming loose and possibly shorting out, instead of just heating up.



artbyjody said:


> If it gets that hot (over 120 degrees) - you have bigger issues my friend - the wire and insulation itself will suffer the impact..well before it effects the joint. Rule of thumb if a wire is too hot to touch - something is definitely wrong....unless you are dealing with commercial applications...


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

halekai36 said:


> Ok from the time I made the connection I let it cure for about 40 minutes which should be more than enough time for the adhesive lining to cure.
> 
> The heat shrink held my 10lb Fortress anchor with no problem and only minimal stretch.


In summary it does prove it is a mechanical bond... In which case 10 lbs static pressure is more than enough and exponentially - that capacity would increase or its effects would with either a crimp or soldered joint...The issue is where on board does more than 10lbs constitute a load requirement? Hardly nowhere - which makes the argument between the two - almost null and void as it is illustrated you could just bond using loosely coupled wires with heat shrink as the mechanical fastener...(not advised but could be done)....I never stated how great it would be - merely it is a mechanical connection as well and one has to account for sum of the parts not just sole impact of such... good work


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

So... why do you take your anchors home? Inquiring minds think there has got to be a reason for that too


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> Now, you're just dodging the issue... this is probably why the ABYC specifications require mechanically fastened connections... If the circuit does have a problem and the wiring heats up to 400 degrees, you don't want the wires coming loose and possibly shorting out, instead of just heating up.


No not dodging the issue - tell me where on board you want some wire to get 400 degrees? If you are at that point you have way bigger issues. Argue on the basis of common sense and application not theoretical limits...Sake of arguing the impractical in our environment for mere sake you can spit out a bunch of numbers is misleading and quite directional for mere sake of argument...

Most boats do not carry gauge wire that could on their own hold up to that temperature - so the connections are actually less of a problem...in terms of that - a fuse would blow before it would happen in a properly designed system...or the fire would occur closer to the point of origin...


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## US27inKS (Feb 6, 2005)

sailingdog said:


> Now, you're just dodging the issue... this is probably why the ABYC specifications require mechanically fastened connections... If the circuit does have a problem and the wiring heats up to 400 degrees, you don't want the wires coming loose and possibly shorting out, instead of just heating up.


The other part of the problem is that corrosion is most likely to occur where the connection is. Corrosion = resistance. Resistance = heat. The hot spot in the circuit is most likely to be the connection itself, where solder would fail and crimp would survive.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

US27inKS said:


> The other part of the problem is that corrosion is most likely to occur where the connection is. Corrosion = resistance. Resistance = heat. The hot spot in the circuit is most likely to be the connection itself, where solder would fail and crimp would survive.


If both a solder joint and a crimped joint are shrink wrapped - the same effects of corrosion would occur on each not one over the other...in theory because heat shrinked neither would be subject to corrosive issues - in fact the crimp would most likely suffer more as air is trapped in the voids of the crimped connection... the likely hood of corrosive effects on either being properly performed is the same...


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

sailboy21 said:


> So... why do you take your anchors home? Inquiring minds think there has got to be a reason for that too


Let's see... I no longer use the Max, Aluminum Spade or that particular FX-16 as I own two. As for my Rocna it was just as easy to drop my rode to the ground with the anchor when the boat was on the hard and stick it in my trunk. I don't like my rode sitting in a damp anchor locker all winter to rot and/or rust so I bring it home. I alos never leave my anchor sitting on the roller all winter for fear of sticky fingers.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Jody-

One thing you're ignoring is that the ABYC specifications don't require adhesive-lined shrink tubing as part of the specification as far as I can recall. The use of adhesive-lined heat shrink tubing is above and beyond the ABYC specification AFAIK.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> Jody-
> 
> One thing you're ignoring is that the ABYC specifications don't require adhesive-lined shrink tubing as part of the specification as far as I can recall. The use of adhesive-lined heat shrink tubing is above and beyond the ABYC specification AFAIK.


I doubt you'd find much difference in between the two...there is nothing supporting that states that the adhesive in effect is a barrier in the static tests where a non adhesive heat shrink bound directly to the insulation would not perform any better or less....I never use adhesive bonding with heat shrink because if it is quality - it will bond the way it should - and I will not argue microns here...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Jody-

IIRC, *heat shrink tubing isn't part of the ABYC specification*, either adhesive lined or plain..... so, the ABYC specification for mechanically fastened connections, even in the case of a soldered connection makes sense.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Jody..*

Seeing as I do have the full volume & text of ABYC E-11 code (all 61 pages of it) I opened up the PDF and checked on heat shrink as a mechanical connection.

For a 14 gauge wire a termination is not considered mechanical unless it can withstand 30 lbs.! This excludes the solder because it can not be considered the connection. Seeing as the heat shrink failed on that 14 ga wire at some point between 10 & 16 lbs. I'd have to say that particular heat shrink, by the ABYC standards, does not count as a mechanical connection by their definition..

TABLE XVI - TENSILE TEST VALUES FOR CONNECTIONS

GAUGE / POUNDS 
14 / 30 
12 / 35 
10 / 40 
8 / 45


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

halekai36 said:


> Seeing as I do have the full volume & text of ABYC E-11 code I opened up the PDF and checked on the heat shrink.
> 
> For a 14 gauge wire a termination is not considered mechanical unless it can withstand 30 lbs.! This excludes the solder because it can not be considered the connection. Seeing as the heat shrink failed on that 14 ga wire at some point between 10 & 16 lbs. I'd have to say that particular heat shrink, by the ABYC standards, does not count as a mechanical connection by their definition..
> 
> ...


lol... 30 lbs (PS annoys me ABYC standards are not accessible public domain) - sigh - guess its time for me to turn my garage into a NSTL test ground... nonetheless - alot of light is shed on the subject and that I appreciate  However it states - TERMINATION - a crimp joining two wires together is a splice... is not a termination in the tests that we held....(just being a stickler) And actually by their definition does not stress that the heat shrink be capable - just the sum of components...if the heat shrink can handle 10 lbs then as long as the connector or solder joint maintains the rest and meets the spec it is good...Nothing there stated solder is not a mechanical connection ...and even if excluded the heat shrink being applied would negate that anyways as it is the sum of parts not each exclusive...


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

artbyjody said:


> Then riddle me this then? How is crimping not a single mechanical connection? Because it is crimped at two ends - it is still a singular device holding them together... thus technically a single mechanical connection - no more or no less than a soldered joint.... While tech support may say something (I doubt they fully understand ABYC anymore than most)- I would err on the side that if you did the crimp without the heat shrink - less results because technically the heat shrink provides a secondary mechanical connection (where it counts by bonding to the insulation)...
> 
> That is my opinion tho...and I'll leave it at that ....


Jody,

The ABYC is a voluntary guideline. No one has to stick to it not even a boat builder, but most do. I usually try and go above and beyond what the ABYC recommends as it's basically a bare minimum...


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## thekeip (Aug 8, 2007)

I live and work with E-11 every day, and know it fairly well. ABYC does NOT say that heat shrink constitutes or contributes to any part of the connection. We're not discussing the relative merits of heat shrink application, adhesive lined or not.
Howard Keiper
Sea Quest
Berkeley


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## xtatico1404 (Jan 20, 2008)

Great discussion by everyone, and thumbs up to halekai for the in-house testing. Halekai, just out of curiosity, could you do a test with a soldered connection?....just wondering what the failure load might be.



artbyjody said:


> - in fact the crimp would most likely suffer more as air is trapped in the voids of the crimped connection


Jody, if a connection was properly crimpped with the proper tool, this is the end result, a solid mass, without any air voids....this is a cross section of a crimp
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/GL.jpg


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## thekeip (Aug 8, 2007)

Xtatico is right on the mark.
Years ago I worked for the Boeing Co., a prime contractor installing Minuteman missiles in Montana (that's many years ago). They recruited grads who'd already had military experience behind them as well as security clearances. Anyway the 1st thing Boeing did was to send us to a NASA school where we learned the only approved technique for fixing conductors to the pins in multiple pin connectors like the military style Amphenol. There was lengthy discussion about the ability of a good crimp to make a bundle of individual conductors within a wire 'gas tight', therefore impervious to oxidation within the crimped mass...also made the joint far more flexible than if soldered. 
NASA's definition of 'good crimp' goes way, way beyond what any of us could possibly produce with the tools we have at our disposal.
Howard Keiper
Sea Quest
Berkeley


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Actually, Nasa's definition of a good crimp probably isn't all that far from what you can acheive with proper technique and proper tools.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*A tale of two crimps*

OK, I did one last experiment! This time I made a crimp with my Klein crimper/strippers (inexpensive) and one with a good quality ratcheting crimper (about $55.00). I then cut the crimps open with my Dremel tool and took a peak.

The crimp on the left was made with my Anchor Ratcheting crimper which is a decent quality crimper and the crimp on the right was made with my Klein "dimple crimper" a very mediocre crimper but also the type most boat owners use to make crimped connections.

I now understand why many boat owners think "air" can get into a crimp and corrode it. If you look at the crimp on the right, the one made made with the "cheap" crimper, you can still see strands of copper wire. The crimp on the left however is far superior and has in fact cold formed or in a sense fused together forming one mass of copper, similar to what happens when you swage standing rigging. I think the photo speaks for its self.

A well built crimping too is well worth the money!


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

They do appear totally dissimilar. Why does the one at left appear to be of a much thinner outer wall? Presuming you used the same connectors for both, the one at left appears stretched much thinner than originally constructed and could fail prematurely.

The one at right appears to deform the shrink wrap but that has nothing to do with the connection itself.


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## Northeaster (Jan 13, 2007)

Halekai - What range of wire guages does you Ancor crimper work on?
Just wondered if a fella would need more than one size crimper, to work on the common marine wires!

Very informative!!


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Northeaster said:


> Halekai - What range of wire guages does you Ancor crimper work on?
> Just wondered if a fella would need more than one size crimper, to work on the common marine wires!


They both do: 
10 & 12 ga or Yellow Terminals
14 & 16 ga or Blue Terminals
18-22 ga or Red Terminals

Most crimper's have it listed right on the side by color code or by wire gauge.

*My Single Crimper's For Heat Shrink Terminals:*








*My Double Crimpers For Regular Insulated Terminals:*


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

k1vsk said:


> They do appear totally dissimilar. Why does the one at left appear to be of a much thinner outer wall? Presuming you used the same connectors for both, the one at left appears stretched much thinner than originally constructed and could fail prematurely.
> 
> The one at right appears to deform the shrink wrap but that has nothing to do with the connection itself.


Same wall thickness, same terminals just different quality crimper's If you're concerned about that crimp or that it "could fail prematurely" think again and look closely at this photo for the little yellow butt connector holding 95 lbs. of anchor!!









Oh, and the link bellow is to the article I'm working on. If you need, or want, more detail it's 90% there. I apologize that it's not completely finished but I've been quite busy in the office today and have not had a chance to tackle it any further than where I finished last night.

*Marine Wire Termination Article*


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Good job of photoshopping out the piano wire that is actually taking the weight.


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## xtatico1404 (Jan 20, 2008)

k1vsk said:


> They do appear totally dissimilar. Why does the one at left appear to be of a much thinner outer wall? Presuming you used the same connectors for both, the one at left appears stretched much thinner than originally constructed and could fail prematurely.
> 
> The one at right appears to deform the shrink wrap but that has nothing to do with the connection itself.


k1vsk, the reason why they might seem different is that the one on the left is pretty much a perfect crimp. It eliminates out all air voids. This is somethimes referred to as "cold welding", since you end up with one solid mass.

halekai, if possible, please do a test with a soldered connection. Just wondering what the failure point might be.....BTW, the article is great!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Also, you might not be able to clearly distinguish the actually metal of the crimp connector from the wire on the proper crimp, since it is basically cold-welded. If you look along the top edge of the crimp on the left, you'll see that it really isn't all that much thinner or stretched out. The copper in the crimp fitting is slightly different reflectance or color, so you should be able to see a slight horizontal banding along the top fifth of the crimp.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

xtatico1404 said:


> halekai, if possible, please do a test with a soldered connection. Just wondering what the failure point might be.....BTW, the article is great!


It held just as I thought it would! No one has ever argued, that I've read here, the strength of solder but rather they've argued that folks who don't know how to solder can cause dangerous issues. They've also argued over a ground fault or over heating of the wire which could result in separation of two wires held together by nothing other than twists and solder.

It's usually the same people that have no clue how to solder who also don't understand using fuses. The two sort of go hand in hand.

A good non-insulated crimp filled with solder and covered with adhesive line heat shrink is a great connection provided the solder is applied by someone with a clue! I'm fairly competent at soldering yet I would never use a twisted & soldered connection on my boat. If I was to solder, unless a VHF antenna BNC or other type, I'd crimp first, with a non-insulated crimp then solder it.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Also, a cold solder join at a soldered connection is more prone to corrosion, and generally will have higher resistance than a properly crimped connection. This leads to the solder join heating up... and possibly failing.


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## xtatico1404 (Jan 20, 2008)

halekai36 said:


> It's usually the same people that have no clue how to solder who also don't understand using fuses. The two sort of go hand in hand.


That is the truth my friend (unfortunately) LOL  I was also expecting the solder to hold quite a bit a weight. Thanks for the test.


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## peikenberry (Apr 26, 2000)

This is really good stuff. I looked at your website. There is a lot of good info there.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Thanks *halekai *for performing the solder test  Now we have the full library of what can be achieved either way - if done properly


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

OK Jody...Halekai has done his testing with the anchors HE takes home. Now its your turn to try it with the dogs! Hell...even Lyndon Johnson experimented this way!


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

camaraderie said:


> OK Jody...Halekai has done his testing with the anchors HE takes home. Now its your turn to try it with the dogs! Hell...even Lyndon Johnson experimented this way!


My dogs eat crimps for breakfast and crap out solders in the afternoon... not sure you'll want to see those test results  I can give revised stability numbers, with dogs as crew that refuse to hike....


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## fishermanjoe1 (Sep 30, 2012)

Great article Maine Sail... Thankyou.... What is the best crimpers a man could buy for HEAT SHRINK TERMINALS? I dont care about price, I just want the very best for heat shrink terminals because that is pretty much all I use... Thanks Maine Sail....


Maine Sail said:


> Different crimpers with different tolerances.. Dude, the new HFT with stamped dies is only $12.00 - $15.00, less than a 12 pack. At that price my time is worth more than trying to swap the dies...


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