# Starting from Scratch, want to bareboat in BVI in the spring...need advice



## ChillinTheMost

100% new to the idea of sailing. When I was looking for a vacation to BVI, I stumbled across YouTube videos of bareboat sailing. I fell in love at first sight...this looked like everything I ever wanted a vacation to be. My limited knowledge has led me to understand that I need to be bareboat certified. Other than that I don't know anything else. Here are my questions:

1. Galveston sailing lessons...any experience with any schools there? 
2. Once certified I will want to gain some experience before my trip. What is the best way to gain experience without spending a lot of $$?
3. What are the hidden costs of a bareboat charter?
4. Once I get there...where are the best spots...probably a stupid question...I'm sure it's all paradise! Really just looking for any personal experience advice.

I have so many other questions...I am very excited to start this adventure. I can't wait to take my first ASA certification. Thanks for all of the advice and if there are things I didnt ask but with your experience know I would need to know please add to the forum.


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## tomandchris

I have heard of a few good schools in Galveston, but will have to look for the name.

If you can find a few like minded friends or family you could accomplish both at one time. There are schools in the BVI's and other resort areas. Combine a weeks vacation with a few days with instructor for the group. You then have a captain with you to teach, get certified, and spend the last few days by yourself if they feel you are ready. Cheap.....no. However, you do get both.


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## rgscpat

There should be lots of threads about the gaining experience part. It more or less divides into some big groups of skills, some of which lend themselves better than others to being learned and practiced on the cheap. 
(1) sailboat handling and basics of sailing the boat... can be done on a small boat after reading/watching some basics; either buy a cheapie or join a sailing club/school/coop; can also be learned and improved by volunteering to crew on cruising or racing boats. Try to be careful about checking out the weather and starting out on milder days. 
(2) boat systems... needs a big enough boat to have all the mechanical stuff that you need to operate and take care of at some level.
(3) safety, navigation, piloting, charts, buoys and marks, radio use... much of this can be learned from books, videos, classroom classes offered by groups such as the US Coast Guard Auxiliary, US Power Squadrons, state and local government groups, etc. 

Much of practical stuff can be learned in theory and then practiced on small boats or via learning the fine art of crewing and bumming rides.

Sometimes sailing clubs or schools might have open houses or short intro sails that are a much more modest commitment than the regular series of lessons for certification. Certification isn't exactly a requirement, but the charter companies (and maybe your insurance company, too), want to have something that gives them a warm and fuzzy feeling that they'll get their boat back in more or less one piece. Many charter companies will have you fill out a boating/sailing resume to describe your and your crew's experience; depending on your experience that may place you somewhere in the spectrum of crewed charters, a day or two with a skipper, a flotilla charter, or regular bareboating, possibly with a size limit on the boat.


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## ChillinTheMost

Thanks for the input...one of the Galveston sailing schools leads a flotilla every year...that would be a good first trip. 

What about the costs involved with chartering? Say about a 30-36 foot monohull. Depending on the time of year looks like the avg cost would be around 3k for 10 days...what other expenses should I know about.


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## mr_f

Here is an oft posted educational video about chartering/anchoring in BVI.


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## Minnewaska

Sign up for the Fast Track to Cruising liveaboard course at Offshore Sailing School's Tortola (BVI) location. They use Moorings vessels and you'll be both certified and sufficiently experienced to charter from the Moorings the following week. In fact, your final exam will be to take the boat without an instructor to a other island, stay the night and return in the morning. Bareboating immediately will also allow you to set in your new skills.

The cost beyond the bareboat are food and alcohol. They can add up, especially if you dine out. If you choose to tie to a mooring, rather than anchor, that's about $40 per night. Some charter companies charge for fuel, for others it's included. Those that change seem to have less expensive rates, so I think it's all pretty even.

Otherwise, you just need a flight to get there, small customs fees and usually a ferry ticket, if you take the less expensive flights into St Thomas. Enjoy.


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## Donna_F

ChillinTheMost said:


> ...what other expenses should I know about.


Airfare to and from. Food (provisioning and/or restaurants).

If you can't go with one or two experienced sailors, or take your sailing classes in the BVI, you should really concentrate on 1 and 2 on your list for the time being. Use the others as a goal to get you through the first.


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## ChillinTheMost

Love the YouTube video Mr. F. I couldn't help but notice that there were a lot of boats near one another. Is that the norm when at BVI?


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## FarCry

ChillinTheMost said:


> Love the YouTube video Mr. F. I couldn't help but notice that there were a lot of boats near one another. Is that the norm when at BVI?


This time of year there are not nearly that many boats around. Then again it is hurricane season! There are crowded places and there are empty places. It all depends on what you are after. Enjoy your trip


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## ChillinTheMost

Thanks FarCry...I am looking to find good snorkeling and some personal space. Don't mind a few spots with crowds but definitely will want to sail somewhere with less chaos.


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## Night_Sailor

You should not even consider bareboat chartering. You don't have the experience and it is not something you pick up in a few days. Do a crewed charter. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Minnewaska

That video, which has been around a while, is not at all common. There are plenty of. Bonehead moves, but that is truly extreme and shouldn't scare any in word the BVI. 

Mooring fields are always somewhat close together, but generally offer enough privacy. It's very different when your neighbor can't just walk into your driveway. However, if you truly want to be private eniught that no one will see you, there aren't going to be many of those in the BVI. I can name a couple, but there is no where to go to shore.

As for being prepared to bareboat right away, it will depend on your apititiude. If you feel,you need a skipper, they aren't that expensive. (Remember to tip them). On the other hand, the BVI is probably one of the simplest places on the planet to sail.


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## ccriders

Either listen to Night Sailor, or get cracking on classes and building experience. Bare boating in BVI is pretty easy, someone here called it cruising on training wheels, yet you could be tested on any given day and the test results won't be a paper grade.
There are almost no "hidden" costs and all of the charterers provide full disclosure on what costs you should plan on. I used Conch and they very accurately listed costs from permits to mooring fees to everything about the boat.
Also, get a cruising guide like "The Cruising Guide to the Virgin Islands" by Nancy and Simon Scott which includes a planning chart.
Finally, consider training in Corpus Christi. There are ASA certified operations, small classes and great sailing, much better than Galveston Bay.
Good luck,
John


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## TakeFive

ccriders said:


> ...Also, get a cruising guide like "The Cruising Guide to the Virgin Islands" by Nancy and Simon Scott which includes a planning chart.


If you book your charter through Ed Hamilton Company, they will send you the Scotts' guide for free.


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## justDriftin

Chillin,

I am in the same boat , have been lurking these forums for years and registered right now just to post a reply and thank you for starting this thread.


I took a US sailing 101 2y back but nothing after that. Sailing in BVI is exactly what's on my bucket list. We have been to BVI 2x and its our favorite place on the planet. We want secluded beaches away from the crowd.

Anyways we live in Houston now and I was looking for recommendation on schools, I am about to sign up for the ASA101 followed by 103/104 @ a school near the "bay". 

Dont want to hijack your thread...

TakeFive, any recommendation for schools in Corpus Christie?


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## ccriders

Check out Learn to Sail Texas run by Capt Chris. 
John


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## justDriftin

Thanks John, I'll check it out for our ASA103/104.


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## Kimble

I'm in the same boat (pun intended). I live about 2 hours north of Houston. I took the ASA 101 course in May from Sackett Sailing in Kema (on Clearlake). It was a pretty good experience. Very nice people. After the class you can charter from them to gain experience and improve your knowledge and skills.

Google
bayareasailing


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## justDriftin

I hope this is not hijacking op's thread.

Assume the novice goes thru ASA101/103/104 and spend couple of days on water chartering a boat from the school. S/he is now confident about handling a Hunter 31. Will charter companies consider this person eligible for a bareboat in BVI? 

Most of the websites say that certification is neither necessary nor sufficient for bareboat charter.

Is it better for beginners to get the introductory 101 and gradually move up to a bigger boat as confidence permits? I am sure ASA 103/104 are useful, but is it better to invest the same resources to rake up time on the water?

Just trying to find the path of least resistance to sail in the paradise.


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## TakeFive

justDriftin said:


> I hope this is not hijacking op's thread.
> 
> Assume the novice goes thru ASA101/103/104 and spend couple of days on water chartering a boat from the school. S/he is now confident about handling a Hunter 31. Will charter companies consider this person eligible for a bareboat in BVI?


More experience is always better than less. It's especially important for that experience to be under a variety of locales and weather conditions.

Whether the ASA certs are sufficient depends. If you took them a year or more ago and have done nothing since, then they're probably not sufficient. If you took them the week before your charter, and in the same place you're chartering, then they may be sufficient - until a storm blows through with conditions that you've never experienced before.


justDriftin said:


> ...Just trying to find the path of least resistance to sail in the paradise.


That's a powerboater's mentality. Sailing is about the journey, not the destination. That applies to the practice of sailing on any given day, and also the way you go about getting the needed experience over a period of months.

The path of least resistance would be to charter a powerboat. Moorings has catamarans without the mast which you might want to consider.


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## justDriftin

Not sure what, but there is something about sailing that's not there in a powerboat. Indeed it's about the journey.


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## Minnewaska

I never bareboat until I had ample experience, so this is an extrapolation of others experiences. If you take an unfamiliar course to the bareboat company, but are nevertheless recently certified, I would bet most will ask you to take an instructor along for the first half day. If you check out, they will leave you alone. Otherwise, not. 

Particularly in the BVI, I don't think you need to demonstrate much more than the competence to get the boat back to the marina, without breaking anything.


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## whippet99

Suggest you find a good ASA school and take 101 then 103 over long weekends. If booked in advance you can catch cheap flights to San Diego, Florida, Annapolis or other places with good ASA schools. Once you are through 103, you are more or less there. We've been at it 3 years post ASA. We found BVI a challenge at least in January. Winds 20-25kts made wild ride in a single hull 34 for a bit of advanced beginner. 

good luck. dream hard


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## ccriders

It is probably best for you to plan to have a paid captain on board for a couple of days. You are only talking about $150 a day and the knowledge and training you will get will well be worth the money, probably better than going to school where they are bound by a curriculum and not by your individual needs. That would make a path of least resistance that honors the voyage. Also, your crew will benefit from an experienced captain, maybe not something you can deliver right out of the chute.
John


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## FarCry

Who is working down here that cheap?


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## Maytrix

As a charter boat owner, I personally wouldn't want someone on my boat if their only experience was a few courses and limited experience outside of that. It's not that difficult, but without experience, there's plenty of things that can and do go wrong and its the experience that helps you deal with those things in the right way without panicking. 

Take the courses by all means, but better yet, hire a captain for your trip. They will be there the whole time and can do as much or as little as you want or need. So you can not only enjoy your vacation, but can learn a lot from it as well and when you go back, you can confidently bareboat.

Final thing to remember - as the Captain, you are responsible for the safety and well being of everyone on the boat. So before you set your mind on doing it without hiring a captain, ask yourself if you are capable of handling that responsibility without any doubt.


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## justDriftin

Great point. Since most owners dont feel comfortable with just certification this whole certification thing seems misleading for newcomers to this hobby. May be ASA should consider talking to boat owners and revise their standards and prescribe something in line with reality, like x100 hrs of supervised sailing in 4y different regions. When a course says "certification for bareboat cruising etc." it sure generates an expectation that one can charter bareboat after spending the time and money. When that is not the case and more of a touchy-feely-fuzzy affair we are leaving a lot of open ends. The trust given to Captain is not too different from whats given to a driver on our busy roads and I wonder what would happen if hertz would give subjective treatment to driving licenses.
Sailing is a skill and it develops over time, but I can see beginners getting blindsided by obscured reality. I am glad and thankful I found a forum like this to check my expectations.


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## Donna_F

justDriftin said:


> Great point. Since most owners dont feel comfortable with just certification this whole certification thing seems misleading for newcomers to this hobby. May be ASA should consider talking to boat owners and revise their standards and prescribe something in line with reality, like x100 hrs of supervised sailing in 4y different regions. ...


ASA 104 is the Bareboat Crusing segment. I don't get the impression that ASA is advertising 101 as making you ready to bareboat since you have to demonstrate proficiency in the pre-requisite courses to take 104.

_Prerequisites: Basic Keelboat Sailing (ASA 101) and Basic Coastal Cruising (ASA 103) certification.

ASA 104 certification requires demonstration of ASA 101 and ASA 103 knowledge and skills standards. ASA recommends a minimum of 80 sailing hours before undertaking ASA 104._


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## neilsty

Having been there multiple times, it seems that if you have the very basic paperwork such as ASA104 and a credit card you are good to go. If there is bad weather, either stay on a mooring ball or motor. Do not try and anchor until you get more comfortable handling a boat and have read threads on forums such as this so you knowhowmuch to do it. First time just practice picking up mooring balls and you will have a good time. Biggest thing is to reef early, there are too many charters out there being completely overpowered in the squalls with SWMBO. It looking too happy


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## justDriftin

Donna, I was extrapolating the hypothetical situation that someone completed ASA101/103/104 following the 80 hours guideline and not considered eligible for bareboat charter. 

neilSty, That is encouraging and thanks for the tip on mooring. Woohoo! can't wait till the weekend.


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## FarCry

Maytrix said:


> As a charter boat owner, I personally wouldn't want someone on my boat if their only experience was a few courses and limited experience outside of that. It's not that difficult, but without experience, there's plenty of things that can and do go wrong and its the experience that helps you deal with those things in the right way without panicking.
> 
> Take the courses by all means, but better yet, hire a captain for your trip. They will be there the whole time and can do as much or as little as you want or need. So you can not only enjoy your vacation, but can learn a lot from it as well and when you go back, you can confidently bareboat.
> 
> Final thing to remember - as the Captain, you are responsible for the safety and well being of everyone on the boat. So before you set your mind on doing it without hiring a captain, ask yourself if you are capable of handling that responsibility without any doubt.


Sound advice that I wish more would follow. I must admit when somebody on a forum with low experience insists on not using a captain, I do suggest contacting the easygoing folks under the TUI umbrella.


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## offthegrid2

I was in the same situation as you. I took the plunge and booked with Fair Winds USVI in May of 2014. Had a great time and would recommend them. Fair price and going late in the season there were only 2 of us as students so we received lots of time at the helm and working the sheets.


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## itnem80

ChillinTheMost said:


> Thanks for the input...one of the Galveston sailing schools leads a flotilla every year...that would be a good first trip.
> 
> What about the costs involved with chartering? Say about a 30-36 foot monohull. Depending on the time of year looks like the avg cost would be around 3k for 10 days...what other expenses should I know about.


re:costs

do look at all the fine prints of the bareboat companies sites as there are lots of extra costs on top of the basic boat rental....insurance, cleaning fee, park fees, etc.

then add mooring (you will probably not anchor on your first trip ever) at ~$25/night, fuel (not much), food and drinks

All in, minus flight it goes easily to double the apparent cost on the sites.


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## TakeFive

itnem80 said:


> re:costs
> 
> do look at all the fine prints of the bareboat companies sites as there are lots of extra costs on top of the basic boat rental....insurance, cleaning fee, park fees, etc.
> 
> then add mooring (you will probably not anchor on your first trip ever) at ~$25/night, fuel (not much), food and drinks
> 
> All in, minus flight it goes easily to double the apparent cost on the sites.


FYI, typical mooring fees in BVI went up to $30 a couple years ago. They may be even higher now.

"Not much" is what the fuel should be. Sunsail hit me with a mandatory $120 up-front fuel charge, even though I ended up using less than a gallon of fuel. 

Working with Ed Hamilton, they have an insurance policy that was more comprehensive than Sunsail's, and about half the cost. This is one of many benefits of having a broker arrange your charter.


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## FarCry

TakeFive said:


> FYI, typical mooring fees in BVI went up to $30 a couple years ago. They may be even higher now.
> 
> "Not much" is what the fuel should be. Sunsail hit me with a mandatory $120 up-front fuel charge, even though I ended up using less than a gallon of fuel.


Moorings are still $30 most places.

Curious about how you only used one gallon of fuel. How long was the charter? Did the boat have solar panels? What size boat? Did it have refrigeration? Did you sail on and off moorings or the anchor at each stop?


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## Minnewaska

I would quickly agree to a $120 fuel fee not to have to deal with it upon return. More than half of that would be a normal top off, after charging batts and motor sailing for a week. Some require you to stop at the fuel dock and top off upon return. Oddly enough, everyone else is too! Hovering for 30 mins is not my idea of a vacation, nor do I want to leave at the crack of dawn to beat the rush.


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## jwing

I agree with just about all the responses, keeping in mind that different approaches suit different people. However, I did not see what I think are four of the most important things for a beginner to keep in mind:

1) Stay sober until your boat is safely moored and will stay moored until you are sober again. If you anchor, you have to stay sober.

2) Use the engine a lot. Have the sails furled except for wide-open waters in mild weather. If your engine is not working well, call the charter company; they will send a mechanic out to you.

3) Don't have an ambitious itenerary. Don't try to see it all. Be flexible. Get going fairly early in the morning. Get the bulk of your sailing done early in the day. Find a mooring while there is still lots of daylight. Stay put if the weather or sea is dicey. Get close to the home marina on your last night so if the last day is dicey and you must move the boat, you won't have far to go.

4) The charter company will get your boat out of the marina on the first day and if you call them on the last day, they will come out and drive the boat back into the marina. In between, there is no need to dock the sailboat. When entering a crowded anchorage/mooring field, see 1) and 2).


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## nolesailor

As an FYI for Sunsail and their prepaid fuel charge...the last two years I went I declined the upfront fuel charge. On both trips, Sunsail staff filled our boat up with fuel once back at the Sunsail docks. I was charged only for the fuel (around $25-30 or so). I was not asked to fill up prior to returning...there seemed to be no issue whatsoever with having Sunsail fill the boat up upon our return. When I asked at the desk if this was a common practice, the lady replied that it was for repeat customers...


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## SailBeat

Hi,

Ive put together a 7 day route plan that I hope you'll find useful. It covers all the best places to go and some places that are best avoided.

Yacht Charter British Virgin Islands | Sailing Holidays British Virgin Islands

Anyway I hope you like it and find it useful. Feel free to ask any questions.

Luke


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## Jiminri

jwing said:


> 2) Use the engine a lot. Have the sails furled except for wide-open waters in mild weather. If your engine is not working well, call the charter company; they will send a mechanic out to you.
> 
> 4) The charter company will get your boat out of the marina on the first day and if you call them on the last day, they will come out and drive the boat back into the marina. In between, there is no need to dock the sailboat. When entering a crowded anchorage/mooring field, see 1) and 2).


Jwing...I'm curious about your advice. Why "use the engine a lot?"

Also, I've yet to charter (in the BVI or anywhere), but this is the first I've heard anyone say this about docking. Is this unique to one particular company? BVI?


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## jwing

Use the engine to have better control of the boat in tight situations, like mooring, anchoring, weighing anchor, dropping the mooring, navigating through the anchorage/mooring field, getting to the anchorage before dusk, getting around in coral, sailing in traffic, maneuvering in current. Also when setting and dousing sails. It is a beautiful sight to see good sailors do all this smoothly with sails only; my advice is for less skillful people, like myself.

I've bareboated in the Bahamas and from the Florida Keys to Grenada, using several different companies. I never had to bring a sailboat to dock. Dinghies yes, but most bareboats have inflatable dinghies that bounce off docking errors without damage. But don't rely on my word, ask the charter company that you are considering.


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## TakeFive

The charter company will tell you to run the motor 1-2 hours per day to keep the batteries topped off. Also, never operate the electric windlass unless the motor is running.


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## nolesailor

jwing said:


> I've bareboated in the Bahamas and from the Florida Keys to Grenada, using several different companies. I never had to bring a sailboat to dock. Dinghies yes, but most bareboats have inflatable dinghies that bounce off docking errors without damage. But don't rely on my word, ask the charter company that you are considering.


Agree. With Sunsail in the BVI...after seeing how they at times cram the boats together, there was no way I was interested in docking the boat. Call them on the way in and they will meet you in a dinghy. Leaving can be a different...the first time was a straight shot out. The second time we were practically blocked in by a huge cat that the Sunsail staffer almost hit.


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## FarCry

TakeFive said:


> The charter company will tell you to run the motor 1-2 hours per day to keep the batteries topped off. Also, never operate the electric windlass unless the motor is running.


How can you do that and only burn one gallon of fuel during a charter? Referring back to your post #34 on this thread.


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## TakeFive

Maybe it was a little over a gallon - but not by much. We had great wind and sailed everywhere, running on idle for about an hour a day to top off batteries. We were out for 6 days and did not run the motor on day 6 except for ~10 minutes to exit Bight and enter Road Town harbor. So 5.25 hours of running.

If you recall he context of my comment, my point was that our fuel consumption was way less than the $120 fuel charge.


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## FarCry

I do recall your concern with the fuel charge. My points are:
1) Idling for an hour a day to charge batteries is hard on the diesel and most likely not putting much into the battery bank.
2) 5.25 hrs of motoring is more than a gallon of fuel in most modern charter boats.
3) Running a diesel for only 10 minutes to get someplace is very hard on it.
4) You most likely spent more than $5000 to go on a charter when all costs are included. You already were charged for the fuel. Why not be nicer to the batteries and the engine and run it under a load so that it can get up to operating temperature?

I work for a charter company and I see the boats abused all the time from people not intending to do so. I really don't think people mean to be so hard on the systems but they don't seem to understand how to be "nice" to them. Many refrigeration systems will shut down when the battery voltage gets down to the 12.0 volt range, which is a dead battery. Most batteries don't like to be run that low very many times before they are headed for the recycle bin. Most alternators don't put out many amps at idle. Run the RPM up to 1500 or so and the stock alternators on most charter boats will do much better. I can appreciate not wanting to listen to the diesel running. I can really appreciate not wanting to be dinged $120 fuel charge! I'm glad you had a good trip and hope you come back to stimulate the economy again soon.


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## SavvySalt

nolesailor said:


> Agree. With Sunsail in the BVI...after seeing how they at times cram the boats together, there was no way I was interested in docking the boat. Call them on the way in and they will meet you in a dinghy. Leaving can be a different...the first time was a straight shot out. The second time we were practically blocked in by a huge cat that the Sunsail staffer almost hit.


You definitely want Sunsail to put the boat back into the slip at their base, it is definitely crammed. This is, as I understand now, their standard procedure. You call them on the radio, pick up two crew at the end of a pier and they put the boat in the "slip" for you. I must admit I was worried about returning the boat back to the base the whole week and was relieved when they took care of it for us. I think that's the only option.

I'm below, packing the rest of my stuff after we've officially checked in the boat and BAM two of the staff back a 44'er into our boat no fenders deployed. Hit us hard enough that I tripped on the bunk and landed in my dirty laundry. They park these things 5 days a week all season and even then it doesn't always go smoothly.

Wherever you go find out if they will handle the final (and possibly only) docking for you and if they do take them up on it; it's enough pressure docking without the staff of your charter company watching...


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## TakeFive

FarCry said:


> I do recall your concern with the fuel charge. My points are:
> 1) Idling for an hour a day to charge batteries is hard on the diesel and most likely not putting much into the battery bank.
> 2) 5.25 hrs of motoring is more than a gallon of fuel in most modern charter boats.
> 3) Running a diesel for only 10 minutes to get someplace is very hard on it.
> 4) You most likely spent more than $5000 to go on a charter when all costs are included. You already were charged for the fuel. Why not be nicer to the batteries and the engine and run it under a load so that it can get up to operating temperature?
> 
> I work for a charter company and I see the boats abused all the time from people not intending to do so. I really don't think people mean to be so hard on the systems but they don't seem to understand how to be "nice" to them. Many refrigeration systems will shut down when the battery voltage gets down to the 12.0 volt range, which is a dead battery. Most batteries don't like to be run that low very many times before they are headed for the recycle bin. Most alternators don't put out many amps at idle. Run the RPM up to 1500 or so and the stock alternators on most charter boats will do much better. I can appreciate not wanting to listen to the diesel running. I can really appreciate not wanting to be dinged $120 fuel charge! I'm glad you had a good trip and hope you come back to stimulate the economy again soon.


It has been two years, so I don't remember all the specifics. I ran the motor according to the instructions that I was given during checkout. I may have misspoke about idling, because I vaguely remember running at more like 1500 RPM. I followed all their guidelines precisely. I just don't remember that well because my boat does not have a diesel, so I don't get practice with how to minimize carbon deposits, etc. I probably miscalculated fuel usage also, but my point is unchanged: $120 fee was way more than we used. It even that's not such a big deal, because we had a good time and benefited from not having to worry about finding a fuel dock and risking missing the ferry if we had a long wait. It's all good.

I monitored battery voltage the whole week and we were always well above 12v. There were warnings about that from the checkout documents, and we followed them.

The day we ran the motor for less than an hour was the last day, when we got in a lot faster than we expected. Sunsail staff were the ones who shut the motor down. I don't think there was any abuse.


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