# youngbuck trying to start cruising



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

hello all! I am 18 and have been planning on cruising all over the world for awhile now. I grew up sailing and fishing on the chesapeake bay and have a need for adventure. I am planning to take 3-4 years off of college to cruise all over the world. My only problem is my budget. Most of the fourms I have been reading talk about how expensive it is to buy a boat that is capable of ocean crossings. And that it takes lots of money to cruise. I am always looking at classifeids,craigslist etc. and I find lots of boats around 10,000 that seem to be capable with a little tlc such as early 70's full keel cruisers around 30 ft. Also I have looked at ferrocement boats that sell for next to nothing, although I understand that ferroboats are a gamble. With a budget of around 10,000 for a boat and then a little more for refitting. Is it possible to sail out into the ocean with such a low budget? Also considering learning celestial navigation to cut down on costs of electronics. I also will be able to cut down on boatyard costs becasue my parents house is on the water with room at the dock and room in the backyard for working on the boat.


----------



## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

It can be done. I recently read a book on a kid who set off in a solid little 24' boat for a circumnav. He ended up getting a 34' boat about 2/3 of the way through. I forget his name and the book is on my boat. If ya do such a thing, make sure to rig a good self steering system such as a Monitor self steering vane or similar.


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

This may not be the popular thing to say but I am being honest. I have a son a year older then you. If my son was talking about taking 3 to 4 years off college to try and find the money he doesn't have to go cruising. Well to be brief, my foot would be finding the place that he use to use to sit down. Start your life before you start to mess around.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*on dreams*

We did a minimal gear and boat thread a week or so ago search archives there was some good info there..

If you want to do it like this guy below then I say yes..otherwise thats a pretty slim budget...you cant leave busted..you will need to be able to live untill you find work..that will take some money...When we are young we seem to be able to do more for less and rough it more though..


----------



## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

Bill Crealock cruised for most of his 20's. Check Amazon or www.abebooks.com for his two books -- Vagabonding Under Sail and Cloud of Islands. Of course, it was a different world back when he did that.


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

I have read many books about it such as dove,madien voyage, and currently reading lionheart, they all inspired me even more. and about the college thing I feel that there is no better time then now and school will always be here waiting for me, although that is good advice freesail99. Say I did buy an old alberg 30 or another small full keel boat for around 5,000. Considering I did most of the work myself fixing it up, how much more money would it take to get the boat seaworthy? I am half tempted to take a risk with buying a ferrocement boat and hope it was built right, there just so darn cheap!


----------



## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

Livinondreams,

You asked: "Considering I did most of the work myself fixing it up, how much more money would it take to get the boat seaworthy?"

Answer: How long is a piece of string?

You said: "I am half tempted to take a risk with buying a ferrocement boat and hope it was built right, there just so darn cheap!"

I ask: "Why do you think they're so cheap?" AND "Do you want to come back, or just set sail? Do you want to risk your life on the integrity of someone else's back yard project?"

If you were my son, I'd advise you that crossing oceans is a serious business. Most people who attempt it are at least marginally competent and reasonably well prepared. The vast majority of them make safe, successful passages. Unfortunately, some who are very competent and are very well prepared are lost at sea. If you want to go to sea, start by going to sea in well found boats with skippers and crews who know what they're doing. Sail with them until you can answer the questions you have posed here.

Don't assume that "school will always be there waiting for you".... **** happens, life's events intervene and change things. Do school now while you have the chance, and when you've finished with school, then go on to another challenge, or pursue the dream. If you want a adventure and want to go to sea with some real pro's, join the Navy or the Coast Guard. When you've finished with that you'll still be young, you'll have saved some money, and you'll be a competent seaman.

Keep reading, keep dreaming. You'll get there someday.


----------



## gtod25 (Aug 5, 2000)

*Tell us a little more about yourself?*

What have you done so far (besides dreaming, and surfing Craig's List)?

How did you get the $10K you plan to spend on the boat (Hint - please tell me you worked two jobs while going to school, scrimped and saved, drive a beat up car -or none) If mummy gave it to you, then I'm off the thread.

Have you hung around a boatyard and learned fiberglassing, canvas work, engine maintenance etc. If this sounds like a job interview, you've got the idea.

If all this also sounds harsh, well, I am trying to recruit a mate for an 88ft powerboat at the moment and if dreams were abilities most of the applicants would be master of the Queen Mary 2. 

ps. I fully agree with the USN or USCG idea.


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

I have many sailing miles under me,including offshore. I went to sailing camps every summer when I was younger and took a couple boating saftey classes(Required by my parents to take the boat out by myself) But these questions were not answered by these experiences because these people had money and hadn't dealt with sailing on such a budget. Most people also have trouble taking a teenager serious when he talks of sailing off to explore the world. So its hard to get good advice.


----------



## gtod25 (Aug 5, 2000)

*More info needed.*



Livinondreams said:


> Most people also have trouble taking a teenager serious when he talks of sailing off to explore the world. So its hard to get good advice.


I wonder why?

Now answer my 2nd and 3rd question.

You might also want to check out;
http://www.solo-sailor.com/index.htm


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

> I have many sailing miles under me,including offshore. I went to sailing camps every summer when I was younger


With you being 18, how much younger ? Where and how did you get this offshore experience ?



> Most people also have trouble taking a teenager serious when he talks of sailing off to explore the world. So its hard to get good advice.


That's because we all understand what it was to be a teenager and know so much .........


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Welcome to sailnet.com. I think that billyruffn and the others above give some good advice.... 

My questions for you are this:

1) If you were going to buy a boat, how would you pay for it?
2) If you were to go to college, how would you pay for it?
3) How much experience do you have sailing?

If you're going to use the money you'd need to pay for college on the boat... I'd recommend you go to college first... then get the boat. Billy's recommendation about the Navy or Coast Guard is a good one as well. The skills and discipline that a tour with either will be a great help for anything else you decide to do later. 

While, you could go to sea with just a high-school education, it may not make sense to do so... 

If you're really set on going now... there are alot of ways to do it. First, you do need to get a seaworthy small boat. A good place to start to look for one is John Vigor's 20 Small Sailboats To Take You Anywhere. Many of the boats he lists in that book can be bought for under $10000 in fairly reasonable shape. The Alberg 30, Southern Cross 28/31, Albin Vega 27, Cape Dory 25, and the Contessa 26 are all good candidates for boats capable of doing this. 

I would definitely recommend not getting a ferrocement boat. As pointed out above, most of the ferrocement boats were home-built and not very well built at that. Also, many are fairly large, as ferrocement wasn't a material very well suited to making sailboats <35' as a general rule. 

Crewing is another good way to get some experience. If you're going to go this route, it would probably be a good idea to get your AB merchant marine ticket as well as an STCW 95 certification, CPR certification and some good basic first aid certifications...

BTW, I wouldn't necessarily look at the solo-sailor.com website as a good model for you. Heather is 40 years old, supposedly sold a successful real estate company to finance her purchase of boat and isn't really trying to do it on a limited budget so much. 

Tania Aebi's book, Maiden Voyage, is probably a good one to read... since aside from being given the boat by her father, she was on a rather limited budget and about your age when she did her circumnavigation in a Contessa 26. 

Robin Lee Graham, who sailed a small boat named Dove, most of the way around the world would be another good person to read about. He was only 15 years old when he set off in Dove, and the book about his voyages in her is titled "Dove" IIRC.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Livin'...yep. I think you can do it but understand that the risk of getting killed while doing it is probably 10 times the risk that most of us are willing to take. Since you've done a lot of reading I assume you undertsand that...but you know, you only get to read about those that make it! I think you can get a pretty sound, very small ocean going boat for $10k...and if you are handy and willing to work on her for a while...you can probably make her ready for sea for another $5k...including safety equipment. 
The one thing I would tell you to do is ...take it slowly. Get out on the Chessie when it is blowing a gale before you find yourself offshore in one. Do an overnight passage offshore in good weather...before you jump across the Atlantic. Better yet...head south in discrete jumps down into the islands and experience trade winds and seas and YEARS of neat stuff to see and do. Cross an ocean when you know what your boat can do and what you can stand up to! 

BTW...don't leave without a couple of GPS's and a waterproof box of batteries. Cheaper than a sextant and they work when it's raining! Forget the FERRO!!


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

ha ok so far.......first off, I have never been a big fan of school.always more interested in hands on experiences.I have some backround with working on boats but nothing real serious,cars were more available for me to fiddle with. I have done lots of minor work on boats including fiberglass work,wiring,and engine work. For my first two years of school I went to a welding school every other day and became a certified welder. For my second two years of highschool I only went for 3 classes and then worked full time at an automotive shop. Which is where I got my slim budget, also hoping to get a little more funding by selling my engine I built for my car. So to sum it up I feel I am more then capable of doing most of the resto work on a boat myself to cut down on costs,and that that I dont know I will learn.

..........nope mommy and daddy didn't buy me a car ha

Did I get the job? : )


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

I got most of my sailing experience on the bay. First on a little sunfish when I was about 8. Then I got an old mcgregor about 20ft that I sailed. My good friends parents had an island packet 32, and later on an island packet 42. I sailed with them to bermuda, delaware, and many other places throughout the years.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*dreamer*

A 5k boat will not be an offshore boat.. Thees are the kind of statements that youthful naivete espouse...

I believe you now how to sail..I did at your age, but the undertaking to cross oceans is not a light hearted endeavor..it is not rocket science.. but a maturity level in and of many things is required...Not necessarily requiring may years of life to accomplish but certainly more then a couple summer camps and an off shore trip...

Do some home work about proper boats first a foremost...20K is probably bottom rung ready to go...then 10K in the bank for living expenses and WOOPS money if somthing goes wrong..and it will!!...This will take the pressure off you enabiling you to enjoy your new life not romantisizing about it...or having to bail out due to lack of preperation...

You are asking for advice..This is very wise...stupidity is not heading it...Everyone here will or is trying to help you suceed...So take a deap breath...slow down a little and learn...

The Ocean ain't going anywhere either...


----------



## thesnort (Jun 2, 2007)

Have you ever been out to sea in a storm? If you're thinking about setting sail across oceans, lessons learned in real-life situations with good instructors will help prepare you for some of the potential challenges. Just keeping your lunch in really rough seas is a challenge in itself. Of course, I don't know anyone willing to go out in the seriously rough stuff for instructional purposes, but learning firsthand won't soon be forgotten. 
Keep the dream alive, but listen to your head and your gut too. Your toying with the idea of a ferro-cement boat for cross-ocean purposes makes me nervous. 
Best of luck to you!


----------



## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

10K is probably not enough. It may be a start but it won't get you moving (or not for long anyway). Even if you do everything yourself - parts, yard storage, materials all cost money. If you can work and do this along the way - sure. If not - this may be a bit difficult. Unless you can subsist on fish alone


----------



## gtod25 (Aug 5, 2000)

*Now thats a start.....*



Livinondreams said:


> For my first two years of school I went to a welding school every other day and became a certified welder.


Well done. Now get a diesel engine course (sorry more school) and hang out with a rigger this summer. If you visit enough boatyards you will find your boat (it will be the small one still on the hard looking forlorn).

With your qualifications (engine/rigging/metalwork) you can follow the mom and pop route down the Caribbean and, who knows, you may have more money than you started with, after a year. If you still like sailing after that, then through the canal and away.

Fair Winds, keep us posted.

BTW solo-sailor.com was posted not as a role model but as a warning.


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

I have had experiences in storms at sea,Im not saying I have been out in hurricanes or have experienced a knock down but Ive been out. Storms and other dangers are something that come along with the territory of sailing and I understand that. For right now I am more worried about advice on making this adventure happen.

BTW: I am not trying to sound stubborn or cockey, everything yall have said has been great advice. I just have heard so many times from people that it isn't going to happen and to wait till I'm older.Surprisingly my parents support my idea.....not with there money though!


----------



## redstripesailor (Sep 6, 2006)

I'm a young guy that's been dreaming of sailing off over the horizon on my own little boat as well. However I've done some SERIOUS investigation into the matter and I have realized that it's not really feasible with the meager resources of your average young man. 10-20k is tough to come up with when push really comes to shove. I went ahead and finished college and now I work full time and year round sailing professionally on a variety a wide variety of boats. I'm putting money in the bank as I gain experience (and I started with a fair bit) and one day I'll have my own boat. But it's going to be a boat I can really believe in, not the cheapest thing I could find that would float. And I've also scaled back my cruising ambitions from world voyaging to a more realistic amount of cruising. I'm getting my world voyaging done on other people's large, safe, offshore capable boats and budgets. 

I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, I sure didn't. It's a hard when you realize you might have to compromise on dreams. But it's worked for me and I think it could work for you.

I know everyone is telling you to read books, I've read all the ones mentioned but one book really put things in perspective for me. It's called "The Purpose of Sailing" by Jerome Fitzgerald. It's short, and more of a rant than anything, but I think it will strike a chord with you.


----------



## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Livin:

You'll find some VERY opinionated advice on this subject (all rightfully so). There is a majority that did it right and never tell the stories of how much wrong it took for them to get that way, there are others that defied tradition and somehow - managed, and then many others with varying experiences or accumulated from stories of others that put the fear of god in them so they somehow managed to make it ok...That aside...

I live by the mantra - if you can dream - it can be done. Worked well for for me, but I do due diligence in becoming as aware of as the many pitfalls as there are glory points... The Ferro Cement....Honestly - you are not going to find a deal there... for starters they are heavier than pigs with their families riding as cowboy. As another poster pointed out - it was a dream backyard Popular Science DIY trend - not many got it right and if you are paying less than 10K for one - I can assure you the reason why it less than 10K is that is the cost to hire someone to tow it and scrap it at your local garbage dump.... And before you go Reid's schooner Ann is ferro - it sat in the water for years - somehow still floating but he had everything donated to him to begin with...your budget is most likely not to include gifting...Furthermore - most ferros are in the 36 foot + range and rightfully so for the weight / displacement drawbacks of using that material for design...


NOW: You have a place to dock that is free and that saves on average anywhere between 1200 to 6K a year on moorage fees. Good start.

You haven't sailed solo on any boat of any decent size (I state 25-30 foot)...what you find is that sailing longer distances means having better tools to do it... Celestial navigation is great but last I checked the stars never warn you about a freighter barreling down on you at 20 + knots... and if your skies do that - you can supplement your income as actually being a real physic...At minimum you need GPS, a Charter (sure use paper but eh in todays world why?) and most certainly a radar system...preferably all integrated (2K to 5K)

So here is you rub... you didn't have 18 or 20 years to dream this up - your not that old and the boat you end up owning will be older than you (respect your elders as they say as they have different ideas for you)...

So here is something realistic:

Buy a 27 footer and get it out there... figure out your wants - likes - desires and dislikes... trade out - trade - up.. But 10K ...your a young man - you have time - work summer jobs and where you are at - there are plenty of crewing opportunities and marinas that you do side jobs or a real job to earn the mullah and get discounts on stuff...slow down - sailing is about getting somewhere as slow as possible but fast enough to get there before retirement...

However, you can make anything happen - but there is a fine line between insanity for the sake of pretending to be sane, and the line between sanity and common sense for you....

best of luck....


----------



## thesnort (Jun 2, 2007)

"Also considering learning celestial navigation to cut down on costs of electronics"
I'd still want a GPS. Nothing wrong with having fairly reliable technology. There are also overcast nights for which sailing by the stars isn't all that feasible.
I think you want to give yourself the best chance in any eventuality, and a trip across oceans might give you the test of your life. Nevertheless, I think Hal Roth has put in hundreds of thousands of miles in ocean sailing and never had any serious weather problems. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong). 
About the ferro-cement idea, I've read The Water In Between recently and the author did it on one of these. You're more prepared than he was, but I'd still go with a solid fiberglass boat with a large displacement.
If you're living at home, you can put away some seriously good money in a year or two. I'd vote for that and some messing around in local waters, testing yourself (with a good sailor with you) in ever more challenging situations. I think you can really prepare yourself well by staying within sight of shore and not risking your neck right off the bat with an inappropriate boat.
Save some cash, learn just a wee bit more, and buy yourself the essentials for a long cruise. That kind of plan you won't regret.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Don't listen to them*

I wouldn't listen to any of these guys. You can totally do it. Check out these examples:
w w w.atomvoyages.com/voyaging/solocircum.htm[/url]
w w w.wetsand.com/page-feature.asp?locationid=5&tabid=1048&subtabid=1495&catid=1495[/url]

On top of those two, and there are many more, My grandfather at 24 sailed around the world in 1939 when the south pacific was still largley unknown by todays standards. Then he joined the navy and fought a war for 5 years, then came home and went to college and raised a family.......and his most rewarding experiance was the sail around the world. Do it well you're young and can enjoy it.......not in your 50's when you have a wife that won't go and kids who need tuition.


----------



## gtod25 (Aug 5, 2000)

*Nobody on this board is asking you to compromise your dreams.....*

but we are asking you to work for them.

Make a three year plan;

1. Get some marketable skills.
2. Get some money.
3. Get some more sailing/boating/boat maintenance experience.
4. Buy a suitable boat you can afford (you will know what it is by the time you have done 1,2 and 3.)

and go for it.

It only sounds boring because it works.


----------



## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Livinondreams said:


> Surprisingly my parents support my idea.....not with there money though!


You should ask them why...your parents advice is more important than a bunch of sailors drunken and froze in and on the hard... And most likely the only ones that will bail you out when you do make the leap...


----------



## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

Living on .. You struck a cord !
Ask the people that have taken you you under thier wing.
They most likely know you better then you know your self>

I was 18 wanted to race DIRT in CNY ..lots of s ... heads just laughf ed at it .
I worked at a junk yard just trying to get away from the farms .
Put a car together and did real well for 3 seasons with the junk yard x- press .
Always wanted to drive big trucks at 22 I had started. 24 years accident free still lovining it as a twenty year Teamster.

Got started drag raceing bikes 2 seasons did all my own work on them. done pretty good ..sh.. heads all trying to be my freinds by now !
Married one son.. worked more on carreer .. divorced.

Worked like a fool ..bought land...dozer .dump truck...more land..track hoe ..
Doing lots of jobs now ! S ...heads wont even talk to me now ..sometimes I wonder if Im a gost now....more land almost 70 acers now .

Still working a full time job ... got climbing rock and Ice ...sh.. heads laughf
ten tears after ...what a resume aquired .

Just bought my first sail boat in the south east AK .. Should be on it real soon . some thing since I was your age or so ive wanted to do.

My son is 17 now and no wonder lust of the seas .
or big adventure. Just my thoughts for you If I had the chance to advance my education just get it done . its something you can take with you every where you go .
There is always time to follow your dreams ...follow your heart man , it will take you there !


----------



## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

Art by ...Last two post are right on it !
THANKS.


----------



## southerncross31 (Sep 16, 2006)

I bought my Southern Cross 31 for 10k. I did all of the work myself for little $. You could sail this boat around the world. Spend lots of time on your rigging and thru-hulls. You have to know them instinctively. I wanted to do what you want to do when i was 18. I didn't, now i'm 33 (as of today) with a wife, 2 young kids and a house. I won't be heading out for quite a while at this point. There is no way you will ever have the mental or physical freedom again to do what you want. Lots of people will tell you not to go but that is because they are either jealous or confused. Almost every old cruiser I have met said they wished they had set sail when they were much younger. How many stories have you heard of people spending years to earn the money to buy the big boat... only to be to old, weak and sick to handle it. Go... cast of the lines and live life before reality sets in! Do it for a lot of reasons.... fun, adrenaline, adventure, whatever...but the most important reason is that you never get your time or youth back..do it so you won't some day be left wishing you had. That you can never change!


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

southerncross31 said:


> I bought my Southern Cross 31 for 10k. I did all of the work myself for little $. You could sail this boat around the world. Spend lots of time on your rigging and thru-hulls. You have to know them instinctively. I wanted to do what you want to do when i was 18. I didn't, now i'm 33 (as of today) with a wife, 2 young kids and a house. I won't be heading out for quite a while at this point. There is no way you will ever have the mental or physical freedom again to do what you want. Lots of people will tell you not to go but that is because they are either jealous or confused. Almost every old cruiser I have met said they wished they had set sail when they were much younger. How many stories have you heard of people spending years to earn the money to buy the big boat... only to be to old, weak and sick to handle it. Go... cast of the lines and live life before reality sets in! Do it for a lot of reasons.... fun, adrenaline, adventure, whatever...but the most important reason is that you never get your time or youth back..do it so you won't some day be left wishing you had. That you can never change!


"Twenty years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than those you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the wind in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Really says it all.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Patricia Henry did just that... Donna Lange recently finished a solo circumnavigation in an SC28.  That's one reason I put it on the short list of boats to recommend to Living... it's bluewater capable, proven and relatively affordable.

Happy birthday btw...



southerncross31 said:


> I bought my Southern Cross 31 for 10k. I did all of the work myself for little $. You could sail this boat around the world. Spend lots of time on your rigging and thru-hulls. You have to know them instinctively. I wanted to do what you want to do when i was 18. I didn't, now i'm 33 (as of today) with a wife, 2 young kids and a house. I won't be heading out for quite a while at this point. There is no way you will ever have the mental or physical freedom again to do what you want. Lots of people will tell you not to go but that is because they are either jealous or confused. Almost every old cruiser I have met said they wished they had set sail when they were much younger. How many stories have you heard of people spending years to earn the money to buy the big boat... only to be to old, weak and sick to handle it. Go... cast of the lines and live life before reality sets in! Do it for a lot of reasons.... fun, adrenaline, adventure, whatever...but the most important reason is that you never get your time or youth back..do it so you won't some day be left wishing you had. That you can never change!


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

During my time working at my local auto shop, I became friends with most of the guys there. Most had kids and a house mortage etc. and they used to always tell me that life will fly by before I know it and to go out and experience everything I can. I really took that seriously, I have had 3 highschools friends die within a year and I feel that life is to short to just follow the normal routine. Some love a desk job and school. But that just isn't for me right now. One deal I did have to make with my parents is that my grades in college must be all a's and b's for me to take time off, so when I get back I will be able to get back into school if wanted.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

> One deal I did have to make with my parents is that my grades in college must be all a's and b's for me to take time off, so when I get back I will be able to get back into school if wanted.


That's a very wise idea.


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

In many of my readings, such as dove It talks of how he aqqiures food,and things by trading and also for free. Also how he easily picks up work at various ports when needed. Someone also said earlier in the form that freshwater isn't free. Are things really that different today, what kind of expenses will I be looking at while underway?


----------



## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Livinondreams said:


> During my time working at my local auto shop, I became friends with most of the guys there. Most had kids and a house mortage etc. and they used to always tell me that life will fly by before I know it and to go out and experience everything I can. I really took that seriously, I have had 3 highschools friends die within a year and I feel that life is to short to just follow the normal routine. Some love a desk job and school. But that just isn't for me right now. One deal I did have to make with my parents is that my grades in college must be all a's and b's for me to take time off, so when I get back I will be able to get back into school if wanted.


Most people that say "experience life while you can (I didn't)" and being married with kids, are the ones that chose to allow their life to go that direction and happily resigned to it...The are many others in the same situation that live life harder and better than most single people I know, and still have a robust and wonderful family / marriage life...

And whilst this is a touchy subject - you have my sympathies on your friends deaths - but have you asked yourself why it actually happened... In life we never get to choose when it happens but we can control in most cases how and when we get there...I can understand how it may seem traumatic - I had my next door neighbor's step daughter whom I was very good friends with (at age 11) - commit suicide with her step-dads pistol underneath my window...I never understood why - and while it is shocking - it was never a excuse to live hard and fast like there is no tomorrow...it was an early awakening instead - of just how fragile we all can be when the circumstances are against us.... not everyone reacts the same...

It doesn't have to take years... just a solid plan and movement in the direction to get where you want to...heck you may find out doing it solo isn't the way to go afterall...But if there is ever a lesson you should learn from your own words - is - "To do when you feel you are ready, prepared and confident in yourself" and not "Because others told me I had to do this else I miss out"... Take it slow and you will be amazed at the lessons you teach yourself as well as the gratification you will have for those that gifted you with the wisdom to be an old salt one day....One day - you'll be amazed that your advice you give others is exactly the same advice that many here are giving you...(I know that from experience)....


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Do you plan to work well underway? If so consider getting your Yacht Master, You can make some serious coin doing charters and deliveries wherever you are in the world. Its a 3G investment that will by far pay for itself.


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

saildog-
I haven't come across that site before, thanks for the link. I really appreaciate the feedback. By the way Maiden voyage, and dove were some of the best books I've read and really inspired me. I tried to message you back but it said I had to have 10 posts to send a message.


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

I have been looking at a lot of boats that are pretty far away from me. If not able to deliver by water, what kind of costs am I looking at for delivering a boat by land? I guessing it would be to much so I should just stick with my area.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Working in foreign countries can lead to legal issues... but barter is generally acceptable...and if you're skilled in things like welding, electrical systems, diesel and gasoline engine repair, then you can often trade service for goods... 

An RYA Yachtmaster is also a good idea. Several of my friends have them, and in many ways they're far more useful than a USCG captain's license, since the RYA Yachtmaster is recognized in far more countries, and the USCG seems to only be recognized in the US and its territories.

Glad to help... btw, delivery by land is pretty pricey... and would eat up a significant part of your budget. It's a pity you didn't post this about a month ago...since there was a Southern Cross 28 for sale down your neck of the woods, which was pretty fully equipped for bluewater passage making and in very good shape from what I've been told. It was a bit more than $10,000, but was in need of no work or equipment either.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Livin,
Check this one out. Its a short sail from the CB. You will have to type in the address because I'm new and left spaces in the www because I can't post a link.

w w w.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatDetails.jsp?&units=Feet&currency=USD&ro=5&r=1386218&rs=yachtworld.com&rt=Cruiser&boat_id=1386218&checked_boats=1386218&Ntk=boatsEN&type=%28Sail%29&sm=3&cit=true&currencyid=100&luom=126&man=pearson+triton&slim=quick&is=false


----------



## papazulu (Jan 11, 2008)

Livin,man, who's got it better than you. The whole world awaits your actions.Your not afraid to get your hands dirty.You have engine work, metal work experience.You have a passion for adventure thats geared towards the sea. You have your parents blessing too. Most kids dream of adventure. You have the opportunity to live your adventure. Check out some of the threads in sailnet about Sailors looking to plunk down 100 big ones on a sailboat that they can work on while they still are on active duty in the Navy or Coast Guard. They make decent money but they just don't get a chance to spend it while at sea. Every thing is taken care of ,food medical, coverall while your working down in the engine room at some of the biggest and best maintained pieces of machinery you will ever see.If you have seen the movie TOP GUN, you will know what just a fraction of the adrenaline rush of Navy flight operations is on any Carrier flight deck while under way. You are a recruiters dream. There is just so much opportunity in the service. The bonus cash you get for hazardous duty, will feel like gravy.You will feel that you should be paying them. And did I mention that if you get stationed in the US., you can keep your sailboat close by.Most sailors when I was in , their only love off the ship was their car. But in your case you can have two. Your car and sailboat.By the way you are getting paid for all these experiences.Not bad. Lots Of Luck whatever you decede. PAPA


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Livin,

Don't get brainwashed into the navy or coast guard......unless you're an officer you're not going to learn **** about what you need to know about the sea. Get your IYT Yacht Master and learn on ships under 200 tons. The military is what people do when they don't no what to do. Oh, and if you get your IYT Yachtmaster......people don't shoot at you ......depending where you are....


----------



## papazulu (Jan 11, 2008)

Poor Anderson. Boy are you misinformed. Who do you think works along side those Officers on board Navy Ships. Being shot at is a calculated risk in the service.If you expect something like that is going to happen you can defend against it. In the service you have ample opportunity to defend yourself because you have been trained by the best


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

The pearson triton looks like a great boat, and seems to be very affordable-thanks for the link pooranderson. Any input on the automic 4 engine? Both the Triton 28 and the alberg 30 seem to be plentiful and usually low priced.


----------



## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Livinondreams said:


> The pearson triton looks like a great boat, and seems to be very affordable-thanks for the link pooranderson. Any input on the automic 4 engine? Both the Triton 28 and the alberg 30 seem to be plentiful and usually low priced.


The Atomic 4 is a decent engine... most production boats in the US have one - no longer made but parts are readily avail...

Per the Navy - Stay away from it unless it is something you want to do - obviously the person in question has his free will - and being in the Navy only amplifies it and creates undesirable effects in the ranks - I know I did the stint... it is not for everyone with some interest in the open ocean...If you had read his posts - he is not a follower - but a free thinker and that doesn't work in any branch of the military and honestly - you do not leave the military with job ready / marine marketable skills - unless you vie afterwards to go into government contracting positions or friend of a friend... Its a great way to serve your country - its a great way to get balance in your life (at a disturbing or youthful time)- but it is certainly not the answer to the endalls of anyone in their young prime unless they have no other direction to go or have not already desired to go that direction.... Flame me on that but I spent 8+ yrs..some make it a career others ...somehow make do quite finely...it certainly was a worthwhile experience for me considering my circumstances - but if I lived life again - never - it was marketing that preyed on the ill informed...


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*How about this*

Ever think about moving to Louisiana buying a boat to live abord and get a job welding in the oilfield? Good money work offshore dosen't cost anything to live while at work. Stay gone for a while on a job come home and sail. Here is a good boat for that.

w w w.sailboattraderonline.com/find/listing/1969-C&C+Hinterhoeller-Redwing-89030861[/url]

Can't post links yet


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

If you're a certified welder there are some really good paying jobs out there that can really bump up the budget. Someone mentioned an oil rig, there are also pleanty of millwright jobs. There's money to be made for guys like you that have some skill in their hands. You may have to live on the road for a year or two, but the bank account will start to swell up pretty quickly.

There are inexpensive (cheap is a dirty word) boats that cruise. Here is a link to Tiny Bubbles, a PSC25 that this young couple bought in Hawaii and made it as far as Oz so far. Before you go "inexpensive PSC, yeah right", take a look at the boat. She ain't pretty by most peoples standards, but she's a hard nosed boat.
http://www.adventuresoftinybubbles.com/

I would rather not buy a ferro boat, they are cheap. Almost all were made in someones back yard, and to what standard?


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

PoorAnderson said:


> Livin,
> 
> Don't get brainwashed into the navy or coast guard......unless you're an officer you're not going to learn **** about what you need to know about the sea. Get your IYT Yacht Master and learn on ships under 200 tons. The military is what people do when they don't no what to do. Oh, and if you get your IYT Yachtmaster......people don't shoot at you ......depending where you are....


I found that while not paying well, being shot at was quite exillerating. Shooting back is fun too. I wouldn't recommend it to livin though. Brainwashed...

You can make enough to fund the dream in the private sector with welding skills, just don't breathe the fumes for too long.


----------



## codmander (May 4, 2006)

Livinondreams said:


> I have read many books about it such as dove,madien voyage, and currently reading lionheart, they all inspired me even more. and about the college thing I feel that there is no better time then now and school will always be here waiting for me, although that is good advice freesail99. Say I did buy an old alberg 30 or another small full keel boat for around 5,000. Considering I did most of the work myself fixing it up, how much more money would it take to get the boat seaworthy? I am half tempted to take a risk with buying a ferrocement boat and hope it was built right, there just so darn cheap!


I would stick with fiberglass only because I know little about ferro cement alberg would be the ticket and you timing is great dont wait till your old do it now let the wind set your course and have fun while your young we grow old way too fast college can wait no doubt get a better education in the real world school anyway you can go back to school later if you find it nesseary


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Jeff_H doesn't think much of the Triton:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/buying-boat/24891-tartan-30-offshore-work.html#post91038


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

As I read through this discussion I was really torn in my thinking. On one hand I really understood where Livinondreams is coming from. When I graduated from high school I loaded the trunk of my car with clothes and took off supporting myself with one odd job after another (with emphasis on the word odd...you ever try to dig a trench the length of a golfcourse). My three month long meander was a time of real growth in every way conceivable. It was a time that taught me that I could take care of myself, and at the same time, also made me deeply realize how much I appreciated having family and friends who mentored, loved and supported me emotionally. It was one of the best experiences and most life shaping experiences of my life.

On the other hand, the best advise anyone ever gave me was to finish my college carreer, get licensed (i'm an architect and getting through the licensing process while I was still able to remember the course work seems much easier than trying to play catch up years later) and then go off and have an adventure. I doubt that I would ever have gotten back to college without that advice. 

I don't think that Livin's plans are all that unreasonable if he's willing to work along the way. I can see a scenario where he buys something like a $5500 Tartan 27 with an Atomic 4 (shoal draft is more likely allow him to find a cheap corner of nowhere to tie up) gets a job at West Marine and becomes a denizen of Bacons in order to fit out cheaply. Rebuilds at his family's dock, and then works his way south. 

I figure that a healthy young person should be able to land jobs in boatyards and as a laborer doing construction, work as many hours as he can to feather his nest (When I could I often held two jobs while I was traveling working something like 60-70 hours a week to build up my kitty) and use that to pay his way. 

By the time that Livin reaches south Florida, I would guess that he will either be pretty good at this, or else tired of the whole business. There is nothing wrong with either case. But assuming that he wants to continue on from there, when he has enough cash on hand he can work his way through the Bahama Chain and then down to the Porto Rico (try to learn Spanish... it will help get you jobs in the construction trades as well) and then the US Virgins. I think that he can legally work in PR and in USVI. 

I'm not sure that celestrial nav really saves money over buying a couple cheap GPS's and some rechargeable batteries using them instead. 

(and yes I think that the Triton and Arial suck as offshore boats and that the Alberg 30 is only slightly better)

Anyway, I do wish him good luck,
Respectfully,
Jeff


----------



## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Livinondreams,
When you're in your teens and early twenties you can live on next to nothing. Scrap any ideas of crossing oceans. Get a boat that won't fall apart on you, fix it up, sail it locally for a season, then see how far you can get throughout the western hemisphere. That will serve up more than enough adventure. After that, come home, go to school, get laid, go to work, and take your pleasures where you find them. Enjoy that life of yours, and do what you can to avoid getting yourself killed in the meantime.
Best wishes, young man!


----------



## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Do what that architect guy says.


----------



## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Sure, and if you can get some money together, put yourself through a class to get your "six-pack", and divemaster certs. That will open up jobs for you.


----------



## Birdface (Jul 24, 2006)

Why not do both?

Why not find some crewing opportunities on larger boats for your summers and still do school? 4 months at sea isn't bad for the next 3-4 years. Then you're out of school with another significant amount of sailing under your belt and even more prepared to hit the deep blue skill-wise and probably money-wise too.

What about finding a job at a Off Shore Sailing or similar for your summers? 5 day trips in 37+ foot boats training people and dealing with real sailing life. Also ingraining great sailing habits and emergency methods into you for your future.

I also felt the pull to skip college. I also felt like I wasted some time in school and missed some opportunities. The truth of it was I wasn't taking advantage of my time. 

College/School is a unique period of time. You can easily go to school and then take your summers to be completely selfish and follow your dreams.

I just don't see why it has to be all or nothing. I also think you should keep that $10,000 and invest it and grow it. If you're really passionate about sailing for a good chunk of your life I think you'd might as well use other people's boats for a few years (working for them) and learning which boats YOU like and why. 

The other way to spend the 10k is on a project boat that IS the blue water capable you're looking for. Then you have the four years of college to fix it up and save for the equipment you'll really need to get your dream done.

I personally suggest you STEER CLEAR of the armed forces. I appreciate them and honor the people that do it, but you risk ending your life prior to enjoying your passion of PEACEFUL sailing with nature around the world. Working on a floating fortress has no relation to a sailboat and sailing for me. They're polar opposites.


----------



## Birdface (Jul 24, 2006)

sailhog said:


> Livinondreams,
> When you're in your teens and early twenties you can live on next to nothing.


This brought me full circle to the "what beer did you drink in college" thread.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

This is not a bad suggestion... and if you choose a school in the right area, you might even be able to live on a boat while going to school and getting some time in on your own boat. IIRC, Melanie Neale, daughter of Neales of cruising fame, is living on a sailboat while going to college...and writing about it as well.



Birdface said:


> Why not do both?
> 
> Why not find some crewing opportunities on larger boats for your summers and still do school? 4 months at sea isn't bad for the next 3-4 years. Then you're out of school with another significant amount of sailing under your belt and even more prepared to hit the deep blue skill-wise and probably money-wise too.
> 
> ...


----------



## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Gradjeeated: www.melanieneale.com


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

Im already at college in radford university,not any good sailing around here. Only thing good around here is the hunting. This summer I have an oppertunity to teach hang gliding at the outerbanks NC, I will be living right on the ocean there. So maybe I might be able to do some boat searching around there.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Damn time goes by fast... I remember reading about her buying the boat and living aboard during her time at school...grad school apparently...but now she's finished.


----------



## jzk (Feb 25, 2008)

First of all, screw all of the naysayers. If you have a dream, just come up with a plan on how to make it reality. Just take the time to put together a logical, safe plan. 

How about becoming a Diesel mechanic? Take some classes, get your certifications or whatever. This might be a way for you to finance your cruising booty along the way. Split your time working, earning, and gaining experience with fixing up your boat.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Living...Kitty Hawk Kites? One of the guys that teaches kiteboarding there lives on his sailboat here . Should be a fun summer for you!


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

camaraderie, its funny you mention that. A couple years ago I took kiteboarding lessons from the guy at kitty hawk kites. I wonder if its the same guy? And kitty hawk kites is who I am probably gonna work for this summer.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Livin On Dreams*

I will stick with my origional statements of 20K minimum and 10K in reserves...It always costs more then you think it will...

I went back and reread your origional post...your desires were to take a break from it all and only work to supplement your wanderlusts...I didn't get the impression you wanted a job while living on your boat somewhere...maybe Im missing somthing ....You stated, and I partially quote "cruise all over the world" ...This is the basis of my min. funds needed in my opinion...You wanted a world cruiser I thought... not a coastal or ICW harbor jumper...

You will have to define between the two more firmly to make proper decisions..as one is vastly different from the other..

I own a fantastic boat for its designed purpus...Trying to make it into what it is not would cost me 2 times what its worth..and it might be an abortion when completed...and would take years to complete part time...
neither of which sounds fun or a good Idea to me..

Another 20K is not hard to put togather with the seeming work ethic you appear to have...It is just as easy to learn the systems of a ready to go boat as salvaging one from a bare hull and you get to sail it while your doing it...Piecing togather a boat is more expensive then buying all the pieces in place..( I have resurrected two boats,,I will never again ..lost money and time both times..and I new better the second time.)

I have mixed feelings on the School issue..I was not the student you are..It was all I could do to C my way through school..so collage for me was not the thing to strive for...and a little more maturity was in order before my collage stint which was sill short lived...However, I know of far more people never returning then going back..for what thats worth...as some one stated "Life happens"...this pertains to collage plans just as easily as to wanderlust plans...

If you just want to harbor jump and vagabond around I say go now with what you have..get it out of your system and return to school as planed..But if crossing oceans is really your plans ...then I say buckle down a little while longer...earn more...learn more.....and yearn more...You will still be only twenty in two years...20K richer and have a nicer/safer/proper boat...

Good luck in all you do...

Edit; All the people telling you to screw the naysayers and go now...are also suggesting getting certified in this or that ...Last time I checked that takes time and money...so whats the diffrance..


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

diesal mechanic does sound like a good way to pick up cash along the way, and it would also increase my pay at my shop at home with more certifications. Sounds like a win/win, the only problem is it takes a while to go to a trade school for diesel training so it would be adding a lot more time before for casting off. I do understand that all this isn't going to happen right away, as my dad always told me "rome wasn't built in a day" but I would like to have the boat within the year and be prepared to leave by the next. And if I am working during most of this time I should have some money to make it happen.


----------



## Newport41 (Jun 30, 2006)

Don't let these old farts crush your dreams. Let me do it. Let me re-phrase that. Let me touch on reality. Can you get out cruising while your young? YES. Should you? YES. Just because several of these old farts here couldn't manage to anything else with there lives but follow the pack to school and a family doesn't mean they should be telling you to. Having said that, you better have a plan for your late 20's so that you can have an established life to raise a family in (some day you'll want one) when you get back. Let me put it this way. Go now or go when you're 55. And let me in on something I've learned about 55 year olds. They're afraid of everything. Allow me to re-phrase again, afraid or to wise to do the stupid fun things you can do at 18.
Now for a little more reality. 10k...not enough. I started to plan my trip when I was 20. I'm 25 now and I'm leaving in September. It takes more time and money than you think. It doesn't take that much more though. At your age being uncomfortable is not a big deal. I've decided that I want to be comfortable. Thus, we have a 41 foot boat with basic but good quality gear. We've also bought new cushions, re-varnished, new headliner, all new wiring ect,ect,ect. So, we are well over the 50k mark. You could, however, do it for much, much less. Seeing as I've been through the research this is what I would do:
Buy an alberg or vancouver or some other small capable boat. Pay special attention to the standing rig, engine, sails because you can't afford to do anything about them if they need replacement.
Buy 2 $150 handheld gps
Budget (if not included on boat) for good ground tackle, radar with poximity alarm, self steering gear (wind vane).
Go to your parents and use the phrase "mommy I'll be lost at sea if I don't have a life raft and a EPIRB" Bam! theres those two off the list.
Go to a port or dockyard and get some sea captain to give you old sets of charts
Keep your electrical system VERY simple.
Buy everything used and install it yourself so you can fix it and kick your own ass when it breaks.

Good luck


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*And this Old Fart*

Says your stupid to start crossing oceans without starting with new standing rigging..on a 27' boat thats only the cost of a new 10 hp outboard...

A professional rigger is lying to you if he says he can date or accurately assess your rigging by his eyes alone..HE CAN ONLY SEE THE OBVIOUS to trained eyes..


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

You don't need RADAR... and you will need a fairly hefty electrical system to support RADAR if you have it.

I'd second replacing the rigging if the rigging is older than say 10 years, especially if anything is even the tiniest bit questionable on it.


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

stillraining, that is correct. I do want a world cruiser but I figure with my budget I am going to have to stop along the way to earn some money for repairs and so on. The school thing is kind of a long story,I was far from interested in going to college and my highschool grade averge was a C. Throughout my last year in highschool I had no plans of college. I already had a good job working on cars that I was quickly excelling at. My parents just really wanted me to at least try to go to college, and I ended up getting accepted. So here I am now sitting in my dorm, in fact I just had an exam at 12 ha. I understand that a college education betters my future in some ways but I also know many people who are happily living with just a highschool education. I like I said, I can always go back. But for right now,sitting in a classroom just isn't my thing. But traveling the world,now that is something that just isn't taught in a classroom. I know that I can make this happen, if it has to be more then 2 years before I take off then so be it, But only if I know that I did all I could during those two years to try to set sail. I figured that replacing the rigging would be necessary, wouldn't that be a hell of a story....... boy leaves dock to sail around the world,as soon as sails are raised the mast collaspes ha


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

I was wondering about the necessity of radar, I hear of people just doing short naps throughout the night so they can be able to keep a safe watch. Or just sleeping during the day and staying up at night. I also hear that in a small boat,even with a radar reflector that many ships still don't see you on their radar.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

You'd be better off with a SeaMe Active Radar Reflector... much lower energy draw and works to detect their radar and alert you as well as bounce a huge signal back towards them.


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

I replaced all my standing rigging from the lower toggles up with HI-Mod mechanical fittings. Every thing except chain plates. Did the work myself, material cost $750 through the fine people at Rigging Only


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Rigging only is a good bunch.


----------



## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

Nice to see this thread has grown nicely balanced legs. So, you're a certified welder huh? Nice bit of kit that. You manage to get diesel certified as well and you could find work almost anywhere in the world, even if it's for barter. Other people will have things you need like fuel, food, moorage and parts that they may be willing to trade for your skills. I would suggest a bit larger kitty and with you being a welder, it wouldn't take long to double your money if you're not spending it on survival and boat moorage. Good luck with the quest and don't let life happen while you dream or the next thing you'll know, you'll be 40 with 2.5 kids, a mortgage and no way to pursue that dream.


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Livinondreams,

If you can come up with enough money, and promise your parents to return to college when the adventure is over, why not?

But I think $10K is not really enough. So keep saving -- every dollar you add to your kitty will increase the likelihood of your adventure coming to fruition and succeeding.

Maybe you could get 2 years of college under your belt, then formally request a 2 year leave of absence from your college? That way you'll be half-way finished, and you'll know the door is open to you when you return. Also, speak to some professors/advisors/deans at your college about somehow earning credits along the way. If they are amenable to this idea, you could be simultaneously advancing your college career while pursuing you adventure. Everybody wins.

Some other folks have pointed out that it doesn't have to be "all or nothing". That's a sentiment I'd also agree with. Unlike you I had no sailing experience to speak of, but during my college years I was fortunate to hook up with a boat cruising in the Med, several summers in a row. It was a great adventure for me (like you I was not someone who thrived on academics), and made slogging through college more tolerable. These kinds of opportunities are out there if you keep your eyes open.

As for boats, I will second Sapperwhite's suggestion to lok at PSC 25s. I prefer the Mark II version (with the bowsprit) but either version would be a good candidate. Here's an example that may no longer be available, but worth a look:

1977 Pacific Seacraft 25 MKII, ad expired, Beaufort, North Carolina, $16,900

Another little cruiser that is often overlooked is the Bayfield 25. I'm not sure I'd consider it capable of "bluewater", but it is certainly plenty sound for island hopping:

1988 Bayfield Boat For Sale


----------



## PaulDolan (Dec 11, 2005)

*Young Buck*

I spent 5 years in the early '80s bumming around the US. I'm 49 now and have a good job, 4 kids, been married to the same woman for 20 years, a nice house and a CAL 3-46.

My message is go...you'll have a hell of an adventure and if it doesnt kill you then a lot of fabulous memories to go with it. Shop till you find a decent boat, put more money into it than you planned on and set sail.


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

*don't listen to these guys!*

Don't listen to these maniacs! Get a desk job, get married, and start having as many kids as you can as fast as possible! These guys are all crazy! NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

(There, somebody had to make it look like we weren't "cheerleading". Balance has been restored to the universe. )


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Umm...this is coming from the guy who went off and played with explosives for a living... Yeah...right... he's a good sane role model... NOT!!!!    


Sapperwhite said:


> Don't listen to these maniacs! Get a desk job, get married, and start having as many kids as you can as fast as possible! These guys are all crazy! NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> (There, somebody had to make it look like we weren't "cheerleading". Balance has been restored to the universe. )


----------



## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

Hey! I resemble that remark. Nothing wrong with explosives. It's the application that gets dicey at times.


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

whats your takes on wheel steering vs. tiller. Although most of the boats I look at are tiller steering which seems would be very simple and reliable.Also on a smaller boat what kind of dingy setup would I want? I have an old little fibberglass one but it might be to big to carry. Good inflatables seem somewhat costly.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*This answer*

shows a young man with a level head...You will do OK kid...whatever direction you decide..

And believe me goofy things like your last statement happen everyday..thats why were giving you sound advice we *want *you to make it..

If we could turn back the clock and join you we would do it... but we would want to know what we know now and not have to learn it all over again...

You have a great Goal ( it dosent have to be a dream)



Livinondreams said:


> stillraining, that is correct. I do want a world cruiser but I figure with my budget I am going to have to stop along the way to earn some money for repairs and so on. The school thing is kind of a long story,I was far from interested in going to college and my highschool grade averge was a C. Throughout my last year in highschool I had no plans of college. I already had a good job working on cars that I was quickly excelling at. My parents just really wanted me to at least try to go to college, and I ended up getting accepted. So here I am now sitting in my dorm, in fact I just had an exam at 12 ha. I understand that a college education betters my future in some ways but I also know many people who are happily living with just a highschool education. I like I said, I can always go back. But for right now,sitting in a classroom just isn't my thing. But traveling the world,now that is something that just isn't taught in a classroom. I know that I can make this happen, if it has to be more then 2 years before I take off then so be it, But only if I know that I did all I could during those two years to try to set sail. I figured that replacing the rigging would be necessary, wouldn't that be a hell of a story....... boy leaves dock to sail around the world,as soon as sails are raised the mast collaspes ha


----------



## drifter8022 (Jan 6, 2008)

*Another youngbuck*

Im 19 and you sound exactly like me. I know the that urge that inside your in gut that craves the open ocean with its adventure and freedom. Im really glad i found this thread.Ive literally wanted to sail the ocean since i was eight. I want to set sail as soon as possible while i am still young and while my body can still take a beatin. Right now my plan is to crew during the summer while i finish college. So i can get my sailing fix while getting my degree. I figure if i sink my boat and lose everything i have i can always fall back on my degree. So i have 2 more years until i set sail on the deep blue sea catchin my food and collecting rain water. And ill be on your same budget. I have a questions though that no one has asked how long do you plan to sail before your funds run dry?


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Re item 80

A tiller is the only way to go on a small boat. Its much easier to rig a home made windvane to a tiller than to a wheel, its easier to move about a small boat cockpit with a tiller and still steer with a tiller extesion, and it folds out of the way once your anchored. 

What to do about a dinghy always one of the big problems with small boat cruising. Its one of the reasons that I recommend a shoal draft boat so that rowing ashore is do-able. Inflatables are expensive, especially since they need an outboard but hard dinghies of any stability and capacity don't fit on small boats. One option is an inflatable kayak. At least it stows in a small space, is quick to inflate and does not require an outboard. Downside, it does not carry a lot of weight and getting on and off takes skill. 

One trick is to learn to build an instant dory, which can be built from as little as two sheets of 1/4" ext. grade plywood, some ringshank nails, a tube of caulking adhesive, and a couple 1 x 2's. If you are going to be somewhere for a while you bang one together, and then sell it or give it away when you leave. 

Jeff


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

Drifter, This may sound kind of risky but I think I might end up winging it quite a bit. I do plan to have at least put some money together in the beginning,but it will most likely be a small amount and not last very long. But in the many voyages I have read about, they could usually find work along the way to build a little funds such as little side jobs of painting boats,construction work,running errands for people, etc. But if worst comes to worst I can always come back home for a little while to work and restock. But hey, it wouldn't be an adventure if it didn't have so many dangers and unknowns haha


----------



## gtod25 (Aug 5, 2000)

*This is all you need to do a Transatlantic*

OK Livinondreams, get off the computer, earn some money and go find your boat. When you have done that (or at least narrowed down the search) get back to us with specific questions.

In reality this is all you need; (photos courtesy of my former colleagues in the Irish Navy);





































You have to love the bell under the radar.


----------



## thesnort (Jun 2, 2007)

That may not be radar; it might be a lamp!


----------



## drifter8022 (Jan 6, 2008)

*another youngbuck*

Youre right man. Wingin it the way to do it. Im glad im not the only crazy one. I live in florida on the intercoastal waterway near Daytona Beach. If you need a free place to stock up or make repairs on the way to the islands youre more than welcome to use my dock. And if you want an extra crew over the summer to split costs im your man.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd second getting a tiller-steered boat... which probably won't be too hard, since most of the smaller boats are tiller steered.


----------



## asivesind (Jan 20, 2008)

I waited to get my degree, and I am glad that I did. I knew what I wanted to do. I have so many friends that went to school, just to make their folks happy or because everyone told them that they are supposed to. Now they have a degree in something they don't even like, and are working at some store selling records! Figure out what makes you happy, and do it. If sailing around on a little boat puts a smile on your face and you feel full,then in my opinion your a success. I am finally fulfilling my dream and I don't have much, but as of late I feel like the richest man on the ocean. Good luck to you.


----------



## Rup (Dec 22, 2007)

Jeff_H said:


> Re item 80
> 
> One trick is to learn to build an instant dory, which can be built from as little as two sheets of 1/4" ext. grade plywood, some ringshank nails, a tube of caulking adhesive, and a couple 1 x 2's. If you are going to be somewhere for a while you bang one together, and then sell it or give it away when you leave.
> 
> Jeff


Livin, 
GO DO IT!!!!

Jeff,
Can you point me in the direction of more info on instant dory craft of yours? Sounds like what I need right now!

- Jared

1969 Cal 25 Gypsy Queen
Avalon, CA


----------



## Rup (Dec 22, 2007)

gtod25 said:


> OK
> 
> In reality this is all you need; (photos courtesy of my former colleagues in the Irish Navy);


These photos are actually the vessel "Son of Town Hall" which was the first ever "Recycled" craft to cross the Atalanic Ocean!

You can learn more about it at floatingneutrinos dot com

Crazy.

-Jared
1969 Cal 25 Gypsy Queen
Avalon, CA


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

Drifter, whenever my trip gets goin florida is already going to be my first stop cause I got some friends who live up there.So I'll keep you posted, although it will be a fair while till this trip gets started. I was supposed to go to daytona for spring break next week with all my friends but I decided to go home and work to make some money.......time to start making some sacrifices!


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Rup*



Rup said:


> These photos are actually the vessel "Son of Town Hall" which was the first ever "Recycled" craft to cross the Atalanic Ocean!
> 
> You can learn more about it at floatingneutrinos dot com
> 
> ...


Thanks for clearing that up...I thought that was Giu new boat...Hee Hee


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Livinondreams said:


> I was supposed to go to daytona for spring break next week with all my friends but I decided to go home and work to make some money.......time to start making some sacrifices!


Watch out, with that kind of crazy talk you're at risk of achieving your dreams.

Good on ya!


----------



## gtod25 (Aug 5, 2000)

*Now you've blown it.....*



Livinondreams said:


> I was supposed to go to daytona for spring break next week with all my friends but I decided to go home and work to make some money.......time to start making some sacrifices!


I always knew you were a 50yo guy just winding the board up.

You can not be a member of Generation Y if you can even spell the word "sacrifice". (With the absolute and total exception of members of the armed forces of that generation).

Generation Y - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

*A True Adventurer*

stillraining, I looked into that picture you posted on the first page. That guy has traveled alot of places in that 19ft boat including crossing the atlantic, thats pretty cool.Small boats can definitly get the job done, although I'm not trying to get something that small, around 24-30 is my ideal size range. His website is Sailing around the world alone with Carina if anyone wants to check it out.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*I thought you might like it*

A modern day Tom Sawyer...Oh we all know whats possible.. We just like to stack the deck in our favor...especially when its one of our own..Which you now are..


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

> You can not be a member of Generation Y if you can even spell the word "sacrifice"


My generation isn't that much of a loss,we are the ones who are gonna have to clean up all the pollution and environmental problems left for us to deal with. But it would have been nice to have lived in an age where nova's and chevelle's were daily drivers and the gas was nice and cheap.

But anyways back to sailing,do yall think it's worth the upgrade to roller furling for a singlehander?Although it seems many get along without.


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Livinondreams said:


> The quote thing in my last post didn't work out right


You can "fix" your post. Use the edit button.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*I had the same problum*

Someone told me to just hit the quote button and delete out what you dont want ...I find that the easiest..


----------



## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

*My generation isn't that much of a loss,we are the ones who are gonna have to clean up all the pollution and environmental problems left for us to deal with. 
**************
*
Living...check out this quote about college environmental activism:

* "Rising concern about the environmental crisis is sweeping the nation's campuses with an intensity that may be on its way to eclipsing student discontent over the war "

*Do you think that is true? 
It was written 39 years ago when I was in college...just prior to the first Earth Day...and during the Vietam War.
Life is like a circle...
*Take your place on
The Great Mandella
As it moves through your brief moment of time.
Win or lose now,
You must choose now,
And if you lose you're only losing your life.
PPM...1969
*


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Cam*

You are an old fart after all..


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

camaraderie, I am a geology major right now,and the environmental problems are a big topic all my teachers talk about. But honestly, I think that alot of the kids don't show enough concern and just think that someone else will deal with it,but I also know alot of kids who are very invovled. Last year a teacher and students from my college went to Borough Alaska to study changes of ice thicknesses due to global warming. They had a big presentation about it a couple months ago and a fair amount of people showed up to learn about the problems of global warming. They are going back this year for new measurments, I would love to join them but you have to be either a junior or senior to go. Now about it eclipsing student discontent over the war,not sure about that.


----------



## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Cam, 

I'm going to start calling you pappy. I didn't know you were that old.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Cleanup*

does take an act of congress it seems...but we are making some progress amidst our setbacks... The super fund cleaned up a horrendous arsenic polluting old dump site here in Washington a couple years back...It was used by The U of W and Tod shipyard amongst others to dump hazardous waste...which was leaching arsenic into the bay...

We dont want to leave the planet a mess for you but change comes slow and reversing it even slower...

They also just recently found some old PCB laden transformers beneath Grand Coulee dam that had Been dumped in the river back decades ago...so its more involved then just one generations problum to try and rectify.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Livin on Dreams*

Three of my closest friends are in that field...Two at Hanford here in Washington...They say they have 20 years of cleanup work yet to do there...Just a tip for you incase your interested..


----------



## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

Sure you can do it on $10k. 

I personally wouldn't. I'd start by getting the boat and taking a slow trip down the east coast and then mess around in the Bahamas/Caribbean for a couple of seasons before I decided if the world was my goal. Or perhaps move on to Central America/Mexico for another season. Then maybe Hawaii and the South Pacific. 

Take it in stages. You don't need to make any big decisions immediately.


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

> camaraderie, I am a geology major right now,and the environmental problems are a big topic all my teachers talk about.


Hmmmm, didn't you say you were not in college and didn't want to attend ?



> and about the college thing I feel that there is no better time then now and school will always be here waiting for me


----------



## Bayfield36 (Feb 26, 2008)

*Good for you!*

Good for you buddy. I wish that I would have know about this life when I was 18. I did not get into the dream until I was 30 and dreamt about it for ten years, while reading, reasearching, asking questions, visiting boat shows, bugging boat owners at the docks. It's all a great ride though looking back at it. The dream is part of the fun.

This past year my wife and I bought a Bayfield 36 and are in the process of learning everyday. We are having a blast with it and are really happy with the decision. We hope to cut the lines someday and sail south.

There are a lot of people here giving good advice, take it all but and sort out what will work for you.

As far as if you should be doing this or not. Life is short and can be shorter for some people, you never know. If you are dreaming about this and have the means to get out there and do it. Then I say do it. People have done worse things with their time. College can wait. Someone said the the sea will still be there. Well, so will the 9 to 5 grind waiting in traffic to punch a clock somewhere and sit at a desk dreaming about what you could have done. Then life can roll on and the next thing you know there are just too many things holding you where you are that the idea of cutting the docklines is just too complicated.

Agian, take everyone's two cents and in the end make your own decisions. Best of luck in your endevours, I think you are on the right track.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Yes...Den..while you may be an AFOC...I am definitely an OFM (old fart moderator)!


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Cam-

Being an old fart has advantages...they stink less. 


camaraderie said:


> Yes...Den..while you may be an AFOC...I am definitely an OFM (old fart moderator)!


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

Freesail99 said:


> Hmmmm, didn't you say you were not in college and didn't want to attend ?


No,I am a freshman at radford university. What I have been saying is that I want to take a couple years off because school isn't what I want right now, and then maybe comeback later.


----------



## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Livinondreams said:


> No,I am a freshman at radford university. What I have been saying is that I want to take a couple years off because school isn't what I want right now, and then maybe comeback later.


As I told my sons, "first you get the education, then you get the money, then you get the women, or what ever you want."


----------



## soulesailor (Nov 18, 2007)

Livinondreams said:


> No,I am a freshman at radford university. What I have been saying is that I want to take a couple years off because school isn't what I want right now, and then maybe comeback later.


If you don't feel like being in college right now then BEING in college certainly isn't going to change your mind. I can't think of a bigger waste of time and money than being in school when that's the last place you want to be. Education is a life long pursuit and it comes in many forms, formal education being only one of them. You must find your own path.

You should realize that cruising takes time and money no matter what your goals or experience may be. With your budget you will probably need to fix up the boat and become experienced with its systems, strengths and weaknesses. All this takes time; years for most people.

In my opinion, formal education is wasted on the young. Go out and live the life you dream about. You'll be happier than most people will ever know. Those looks they'll give you won't be condescending, they'll be jealousy. Good luck!


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

denby said:


> As I told my sons, "first you get the education, then you get the money, then you get the women, or what ever you want."


OMG... He's breeding... EVOLUTION is truly broken.


----------



## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

Livin'-
Find your way to the Gregg's Neck Boat yard -- its down your way. If you're really 18 and you're useful, you can probably barter for a 35yr old project full keel boat that'll take you as far as you've got the balls to go. Forget the budget, if you're going now, you'll be working your way around the world. Might as well get started.


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

blowinstink, wheres that boat yard located at?


----------



## daveyjustin (Jan 17, 2008)

First off. This has been a great thread to read. I wish you the best of luck. 
Secondly. Do it. 
Thirdly. You'll find friends along the way who will help you. If we met on the water, I'd except that from you.
Lastly. I'm doing this as well. Here's the plan I'm working on: I will graduate from university (film writing/directing) in April. I'm likely to buy an Alberg 30 this summer with a boat mortgage. I'll live on the boat, year round in Toronto until it is paid off. I work, take navigation courses, and volunteer with other offshore-thinking sailors. I'll prepare the boat during this time (self-steering, safety equip, etc.) and finally I'm off, with at least $500 CAN in the bank.
The great thing about living on board is you save a lot of money and get used to the small accommodations. That said, you live at home, so thats very cheap. Perhaps you could work, and with discipline dump all the money you save on rent and food into your boat.

I feel obligated to share some more personal advice, being similar but finished university. If you finish school and sailing is your goal, get a good education in the arts like philosophy, english, history, cultural studies etc. I'm making this choice about sailing because my education has taught me to see the local world for what it is, and I can't say I'll feel free in the rat race. There is a philosophy to living like a gypsy. Something tells me you have a great fascination with the world. There are a lot of answers at the library. You've read a lot about sailing, but try Jean Paul Satre's "Nausea", or Jean-Jacques Rousseau's "Reveries of a Silent Walker". Build your intellectual confidence and stay away from drinking alcohol alone. Dreamers tend to do that. 

I'm 22. I hope that's encouraging.

Cheers
J

Also. It would be great for you to post again when you've bought the boat. Once you do that, you're committed.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

for 10k usd, well this boat i would feel reasonably comfortable with in the range of price that i've found boats to be in

w w w .yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1565882&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1360&url=

with added extras maybe $15,000 to $20,000 usd. (gps,minor issues with boat that needs to be fixed etc


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Here's the boatyard...it is on the sasafrass river:
greggneckboatyard


----------



## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

Cam -
I figured if he didn't bother googling it, I wasn't going to bother either. 

Actually, some sad news, it looks like the yard may have changed hands. It used to be run and I belive owned by an fellow about 90yrs old (no exaggeration) and maybe 5'3" at most who still did an awful lot of physical work around the yard. He is amazing to watch move around the peirs and handle rope and boats -- you don't get to be a 90 yr old boatsman without some unique skills. The yard is an equally amazing place with generations of wooden boats in the yard slowly being overgrown by the vines which cover the hillside there. It used to be that any of the abandoned boats on the yard could be had for the back storage fee or some equally reaosnable price. The website alone leads me to believe that there may be new management (and or ownership).


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

I did try to google it but I was searching gregg's not gregg so I guess thats why I couldn't find it. Im heading home this weekend so Im gonna go to some of the local boatyards and look around.Also, I love the look of the simple older designs with the rounded stern(canoe stern I belive its called) and the simple square cabins with the small circle portholes such as the pacific seacraft 25,dana 24,westsail 28/32,any opinons of this design and these boats?


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

LOD,

We previously owned a PSC Dana 24 so I can vouch for the quality of the build and design. But the bad news is that even the oldest Dana examples are way out of your price range. 

The PSC 25, however, can often be had in the mid-upper-teens. And, every now and then you may come across a neglected, outboard-powered Flicka 20 (also by PSC), for about the same price. Also, there were some home/kit-built Flickas that occasionally pop up cheaper.

By the same token, I think the Westsail 28 will set you back quite a bit more than you have budgeted.

That is why I posted the Bayfield 25 link on a previous post -- I was trying to come up with somewhat similar designs that you might be able to afford. If you like this style/genre, another builder to look at would be Cape Dory. They have some smaller design that might meet your budget.

Since we're now getting more into specific boat designs, you may wish to start a new thread that explains your requirements and invites suggestions. The biggest criteria will be whether you plan to cross entire oceans, or simply cruise extensively along coasts and island hopping. The latter type of sailing opens up many more possibilities when it comes to available boats. 

Also, there are some other threads that you may want to peruse a bit, as they talk about some of the boats you are considering as well as similar boats. Use the search function and terms like "pocket cruiser".


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

yea many of those boats are usually out of my price range, but every now and then I can find one in need of a fair amount of tlc for a good price so Im not gonna mark them off my list just yet. As for the bayfield, I had some trouble finding as much info on it as I could find on the others. I have also found a couple of older contessa 26's for good prices and I know that they would definitly fufill my needs. 

p.s. The pocket cruisers threads have been my bible lately haha


----------



## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

Try to stay away from Yachtworld. This site has an Albin Vega listed for 6K and a CD28 for 9.5K (both I believe are in Vigor's list of 20 small boats):

Sailboats for sale, Sailboat Classifieds, sailboat for sale by owner, used boats

You can find CD28's on yactworld for 35K, but if you dig a bit, they are privately f/s everywhere for 10-15K and often cheaper.


----------



## ssmith8523 (Sep 11, 2002)

*Some suggestions*

Livin,
I don't know where around the Chesapeake your home is, but check-out Grab Bag Sailboats (grabbagsailboats dot com) for an inexpensive sailboat. Andy usually has a dozen or so right in his lot that he will let you crawl around on, something that I found very helpful when I bought my boat and hadn't settled on a make or model. He is located in a small community called Mayo, MD, a bit south of Annapolis. Also, Andy often hires summer help to work on boats - you might want to check that out.

Go for it!


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*I'd go for*

that 27' Choy Lee...


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

cheoy lee's seem to come up cheap pretty often, but they seem to require more work then mosts because of all the wood. any opinions on them?


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I would avoid the smaller ones... the teak decks can lead to a lot of expensive to fix problems. Why ask for trouble when you'll have plenty enough anyways.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Livinondreams said:


> cheoy lee's seem to come up cheap pretty often, but they seem to require more work then mosts because of all the wood. any opinions on them?


They don't come up cheap because of all the wood. They come up cheap because of all the ROTTEN wood!!


----------



## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

All the exterior "rotten wood" and inferior metal fasteners = lots of leaks, lost sailing, money and neverending heartaches.


----------



## soul searcher (Jun 28, 2006)

Living,
I hope you go.
You remind me a little bit of myself at your age. all I wanted to do was go to sea. There was no way in hell I could come up with even the equivalent of ten thousand dollars. I had about 1500.00 saved up and my first and only year of college used all of that up and I wasn't prepared to go into debt to continue learning about things I had no passion for.
I grew up on a farm welding and fixing diesel tractors and farm machinery.
I ended up getting a job with a small cruise line based out of Seattle Wa. that let me spend 6 years in south east Alaska the republic of Panama and The virgin Islands. for which I made a good living, When I was on the Boat All I had to buy was toothpaste. I got to see and experience different places and got payed to do it. 
When I got my 100 ton masters licence at 21 I got payed even more.
I never did go back to school and sometimes I regret that but for the most part I have had a good life working on other peoples boats.
Trust me when I tell you this.
some where around 22-24 years old you will want that family, some where around 27-30 you will reevaluate your whole life and everything that you think you know now will go out the window. 
There Is though an option, go get a job on Yacht in the charter business be it sail or motor they pay good you can enjoy yourself on your time off. or go the oil field route mentioned earlier right now with the price of gas being what it is they are paying top dollar for help. either way you won't be struggling to stay afloat the whole time.
The down side to this approach is that once you get on one of these rigs you tend to get stuck on them if you are valuable then enough time off to go home or take a side trip will be few and far between.
I actually Had to quit my job to get time off. they paid me for six months after I quit for all the back ato and vacation pay that they owed me.
In the mean time I never minded that I was never off the boat I just kept going until I wanted something else. I still work on my licence I not getting rich and maybe never will, But I'm happy with my life. I get to fool around on boats a lot and that's what I want to do.
One of the best life lessons I was given was by a Man that served in the military for twenty some odd years, did four tours of duty in Vietnam as a helicopter pilot that said to me one day "Matt everyone gets to pick." It Seems simple but it's actually very complicated.
It doesn't matter what other people think what matters is what you think. and where you see your self in twenty years. If you Want to start all over again at age 27 then go for it. You will probably end up there anyway. Let me just give you this word of warning though. I don't know any one in my line of work that has ever not gone through at least one divorce and most have had more than one. that freedom that you want right now is very addictive.
and usually requires you to be gone from home a good bit most females can't handle having the nest empty (or not having a nest) for long. there are exceptions to this but they are very rare.( it took me fourty years to find my exception.)
I think you have a good idea. Now you just have to have good execution of it. 
You Have asked good questions here and that leads me to believe you will succeed in your plans. If there is one thing I have learned is that the sea will get in your blood and it generally doesn't suffer arrogance for long.
You don't come across as arrogant to me at all so I think you will do well no matter what you decide.
You make it Down this way look me up. I usually need summer help.


----------



## southernsmoke (Mar 11, 2008)

My advice to the original poster has less to do with the actual sailing and more to do with the timeline:

If you seriously want to do this, you should do this right after you _graduate_ college. Go to school, get a part time job, save some money (saving just $500 a month will give you $24k in four years) and do this right after you graduate, before you start working.

You could also get the boat in advance and go out over the summer. I'm not much older than you, but I was itching to go traveling for several years and it always fell through. I graduated college and went for several months with the money I had saved.

College wont just sit there waiting. Seriously. You're well on your way to doing this, but GO TO SCHOOL and do this right when you graduate. You can probably meet a person or two (a woman?) who would go with you.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

You're making the assumption that he can find a job that pays well enough to save $500 a month after his living expenses, and that school is otherwise magically paid for. If he has to take out loans to pay for school, he's going to be in some serious debt when he graduates, and the option of taking time off to go cruising or even buying a boat at that time is highly unlikely.



southernsmoke said:


> My advice to the original poster has less to do with the actual sailing and more to do with the timeline:
> 
> If you seriously want to do this, you should do this right after you _graduate_ college. Go to school, get a part time job, save some money (saving just $500 a month will give you $24k in four years) and do this right after you graduate, before you start working.
> 
> ...


----------



## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

Who says college won't wait? I went to college finally when I was 35 and already had five kids. Both the experience gained before school and the schooling have served me well.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hey man, I liked your post a lot because I found myself in the same situation as you before I went into college. I had about 60k in a 'college fund' to use at my disposal. Also, my grandparents left me all their jewlery...gold rolex/diamonds and such. 

I was very close to selling everything and 'going off' on a 38 footer. Now, that I think back (Im 27) Im very glad I didn't do it... I went to college and after I went to Dental school. 

My dream now...is still the same but now I have a proffesion. I plan to equip a catamaran and sail around the world doing dental work in the poorer villages.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Cubanito...welcome aboard. That is a great plan and much needed in many places.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi Livinondreams!!

I've got to say this is proving to be a very good thread...alot of good (and varied) opinions...thanks for getting the ball rolling!!

As much as I believe that education is important in the long term advancement of one's income potential, I also firmly believe that being in the right mindset to tackle the schooling is equally important.

I'll have to second CharlieCobra in that if you need to break from school and plan to come back...do it.

After high school I entered university because it was the 'expected' thing to do. Grades were good, but I really didn't know exactly where I was headed. So...after a couple of years (and well before graduation) I decided to explore a little and see if real world experience would give me some new perspective. It did. My adventures were no where in the league of circumnavigation, but I travelled, worked odd-jobs, lived on a shoe-string budget for a while and learned to develop strong and mutually beneficial relationships with many people. I learned self-reliance and eventually I learned where I needed (if not wanted) to be to take my life to 'the next level'.

I went back to school, but not university...an independant school. I became an EMT, and enjoy thoroughly it. Now some 15 years later I'm planning my next adventures with wife and baby...aboard...for a year or two or ???, and then who knows. You never have to quit having the adventures, and you never have to quit going back to school. I think that as you experience 'the real world' it leads you to what you'll want to learn next...and it's a circle.

Go...explore...learn...go back to school...learn some more...go do more stuff...go back to school...learn...go do MORE stuff...you get the picture.

This style of life MAY never permit you to be financially 'stinkin rich', but you will certainly earn a wealth that money cannot buy.

I hope you can achieve your goals...it sounds like you've got the right mind set to do it!!

C.J.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Do it Now*

The older you get the harder it will be to venture off like you want to..It is easier to do it when real young, unattached and free of land based encumbrances..the next easiest time is retirement age but you might not have the health even if time and money is there...

Not being able to keep your zipper shut or finding that lass you cant live without has ruined...or at least changed or altered many young mens plans...young families make it that much harder to escape land life...some do pull it off though...

*So Do it now..*

After working for two more years that is... ... learning more ,saving more ,working on your boat getting it ready..etc...and if you can take a class here and there so much the better...just stay out of debt or you will never leave..

Just keep your zipper shut...There is more then one miss right out there...


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Cut the kid some slack!*

If his parent's support his ambition, why should he postpone this dream?

Sounds like a combination of sound advice and sour grapes. Seems like the kid has some serious sailing experience, intelligence, and courage.

He should definite;y learn more and gain additional experience before embarking upon this voyage, but he should also be applauded for not being a typical teenager and for having a goal.


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

hey everyone, just got off work. Its nice to see people still checking out my thread, all the support is really great. I talked to my boss at the auto shop and he said he can get me into some diesel repair classes pretty cheap, which that certification will hopefully bring in some money along the way. I just finished reading The Self Sufficient Sailor which was really helpful. So I am slowly making progress, I will feel much closer to my goal when I actually buy my boat though. But hey as the saying goes "Rome wasn't built in a day". Its hard being patient,If only money grew on tree's......Maybe I'll try the lottery!ha


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

To be fair these guys are right the wordings crap but there right i don't really know how much it would cost you but i will say this i'm nineteen years of age but im a qualified Yachtmaster offshore with three Ocean passages under my belt and have just over 10,000 sea miles and have sailed Gipsy Moth 4. I not a brilliant sailor (good) and by no means are any of the others who posted a comment, BUT i will say this i had a dream andgod am i living it age makes no difference. The only difference between me and you is that i get paid for what i do and work with highly skilled Skippers and crews. Take a leaf out of my book if you love sailing don't do it in a spare couple of years do it as a career and then do some single handed stuff. I wouldn't feel confident now to do it myself so you really should'nt. Age makes no difference i'm proof and if any one wants to post a comeback comment that will be aimed to offend me please don't bother your not worthed my highly priced time.:


----------



## Wannafish (Mar 25, 2004)

Davidrogerson said:


> Age makes no difference i'm proof and if any one wants to post a comeback comment that will be aimed to offend me please don't bother your not worthed my highly priced time.:


I may not be - but I can spell correctly...


----------



## sifucarl (Jan 26, 2008)

Living,

Run with it man. Like mentioned earlier, listen to the wisdom being passed your way, weed out the crap. You should live your dreams now because you don't want to be that "old fart" sitting around saying that I wish I'd have done that when I was a young man. If you want it bad enough, you'll find a way to make it happen. If you wait your dreams may change. Life Happens.

I could bore you with my life story of how I lived my dreams, how they've changed and evolved, but I'm not.

So, unless there's some collapse of civilization as we know it, college will be there when you get done with your wandering, and as Sailingdog mentioned, you don't want all that college debt weighing you down.

Even though I'm new to sailing, I think the general consensus here is that we all want to see you succeed. Heed the advice because the alternate to just casting off the lines without preparing your self properly may end in disaster, no one wants that.

I'm 41 now and I also want to get my own boat and wander the globe (the new dream) so I feel your excitement. Take it from me, with all the financial and family responsibilities now, its not as easy. So go as soon as you can, live your dream, create the memories, then you can tell your grandchildren all about it when YOU become the old fart.

Btw to the Navy naysayers, I spent over 20 years and guess what, I survived and everyone I've served with survived . Plus you can learn an incredible amount of pertinent knowledge to sailing if you take the time to learn it. You don't have to be a commissioned officer to learn, those that think along those lines have obviously never served. The military is definitely not for everyone and wouldn't recommend it as such but its a great place to learn a skill and see the world.

Davidrogerson, kudo's on you living your dream, but CHILL. I don't believe anyone can talk him out of doing this. Remember "_old age and treachery will beat youth and skill everytime"_

To everyone else, I've learned a lot from this thread and I look forward to seeing some of you out there.


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Davidrogerson*

Welcome aboard: Why dont you share some of you experiences...How you got started..where youve been..for how long ...on what boats...in what weather, whats it like being scrub boy...to where you are now..
You could be inspiration and a knowledge bank to many here..



Davidrogerson said:


> To be fair these guys are right the wordings crap but there right i don't really know how much it would cost you but i will say this i'm nineteen years of age but im a qualified Yachtmaster offshore with three Ocean passages under my belt and have just over 10,000 sea miles and have sailed Gipsy Moth 4. I not a brilliant sailor (good) and by no means are any of the others who posted a comment, BUT i will say this i had a dream andgod am i living it age makes no difference. The only difference between me and you is that i get paid for what i do and work with highly skilled Skippers and crews. Take a leaf out of my book if you love sailing don't do it in a spare couple of years do it as a career and then do some single handed stuff. I wouldn't feel confident now to do it myself so you really should'nt. Age makes no difference i'm proof and if any one wants to post a comeback comment that will be aimed to offend me please don't bother your not worthed my highly priced time.:


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Wannafish said:


> I may not be - but I can spell correctly...


Correct spelling and punctuation comes at a premium, and the price is apparently more than we have.  

Edit: Using the correct homophones is extra, not included with the spelling/punctuation package.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I've been on various boats all minus 1 sail i've worked in the caribbean but mainly U.K. I started off at the UKSA and have worked for them also. I have recently been offered a job on 95m Indian Empress, and am seriously considering taking it. However i do love sailing so i may not. The only way i survied everything i've done is through intense training but more more importantly by having a great respect for the elements, as most will know they can be kind but also very cruel. I didn't wan't to offend any one with my last post i was just making a point. A lot of the other posts seriously pissed me off though. It was as if people were rolling their eyes and saying here we go another stupid kid with another stupid dream, but i ask you when Francis Chicester, and Robin Knox-jhonston were told you'll never do it your too Young, Your too old, Your too ill did they listen so don't have a go at a guy for having dreams cause when he's made it you'll be the one that looks stupid.
oh and when i said highly priced i meant to me not monetary and finally what did i spell wrong.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

and also you do realise that things are spelt differently in England than they are in America. Maybe some of the punctuation isn't perfect but do you think i really give a **** if you've got time to sit around writing crap like that you really need to get out more


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

O.K worthed isn't a word but a typo still isn't important


----------



## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

*wow.*



Davidrogerson said:


> and also you do realise that things are spelt differently in England than they are in America. Maybe some of the punctuation isn't perfect but do you think i really give a **** if you've got time to sit around writing crap like that you really need to get out more


Looks like someone woke up on the defensive side of the bed this morning.


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

*always be confident in your capabilites*



Davidrogerson said:


> I wouldn't feel confident now to do it myself so you really should'nt.:


I understand what you are saying,but I think having confidence when taking on any task is different depending on each person and not decided by the amount of experience one has. I feel very confident in most things I do, and this is one of them. I am not trying to turn away your comments, you said many good things. It's just that one part I don't agree with. I do admit I need to gain some more experience before leaving, but I don't think it will take a couple years of crewing to be capable. And since this is a singlehanded voyage I think I should be doing much of my sailing on my own to gain the experience I need. But hey, thats just my opinion and you seem very knowledgeable about sailing.


----------



## snider (Jun 26, 2006)

*You can do it.*

I'm 27 and have had the same dream since first stepping on a saillboat at 21. It's a different decision for everyone. I chose to finish school so that I could find good paying easy work wherever I end up.

It may be your path to go now. If I wasn't feeling school a few years ago I would have dropped out and went sailing. Fact is I was enrolled this semester to advance my degree but decided it was time to go, so I dropped all my classes and have been working extra to get those pesky student loans payed off. I'll have a cruising boat this time next year. It's taking a little longer than I anticipated but I'll get there. Everything I've done in the past 6 years has been geared toward one goal, livingaboard and cruising. Waiting has been good for me, I've accumulated a lot of offshore miles, got a captains ticket, and even worked as paid crew on a tallship. Here are a few things I've learned over 6 years.

There has been a lot of talk about rigging on here. Parceled and served galvanized will outlast stainless everytime. Not to mention it's cheaper. You don't even have to parcel or serve it, and you can wire clamp it. Pick up Bernard Motiessier's books The Long Way, and The Logical route. He sailed one and a half times around in the southern ocean with telephone poles for masts and galvanized rigging.

You don't need an expensive electrical system or a refer, spend that money on some good ground tackle. Forget the windless unless you come accross a cheap one or can trade for one. Nothing wrong with using a leadline.

Find an old heavy Singer sewing machine like your grandma had for $50. I just recovered all my interior cushions on my 19ft trailer sailer and saved $1,000 bucks. Making your own sails isn't out of the question. Sailrite.com sells kits where you basically sew on the dotted line for 30% the cost of sails from a loft.

Smaller is cheaper. Less bottom paint, less sail material, lesser dockage if you want to hit the marina for a while. Easier to singlehand. There is a couple with a website, can't remember the address, who found a cheap Pacific Seacaft 25, replaced the rigging with galvanized and some small repairs, set sail from Hawaii. I think they're in Australia now. They don't even have a working head. Don't know if I could go that simple.

I'm on my 3rd sailboat, a little 19ft trailer sailer that's great for camping out on for a few days. All of the boats I've owned have been small, and none have had an engine. I'd prefer to have at least an outboard or small diesel, but if push comes to shove I could do without. Be prepared though, I have had to throw the anchor and wait an hour or two for the wind to fill, or the tide to change so I could paddle( If I didn't have to go far)

Just try to think outside the box. What's important to some may not be important to you, you have to find your own path. Goodluck


----------



## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

snider said:


> ........Smaller is cheaper. Less bottom paint, less sail material, lesser dockage if you want to hit the marina for a while. Easier to singlehand. There is a couple with a website, can't remember the address, who found a cheap Pacific Seacaft 25, replaced the rigging with galvanized and some small repairs, set sail from Hawaii. I think they're in Australia now. They don't even have a working head. Don't know if I could go that simple.
> ......


The Adventures of Tiny Bubbles


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Sapperwhite said:


> The Adventures of Tiny Bubbles


Thanks snapper, now I hear in my head, Don Ho singing Tiny Bubbles.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

That's only because you're having flashbacks to when you saw him in concert. Most of us didn't do that.  We're not old enough. 



Freesail99 said:


> Thanks snapper, now I hear in my head, Don Ho singing Tiny Bubbles.


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> That's only because you're having flashbacks to when you saw him in concert. Most of us didn't do that.  We're not old enough.


Ha, I like to think it's because I use to make Champagne,lol


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yeah, that's possible too Freesail.  Especially, if you were partaking heavily of your product.


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Yeah, that's possible too Freesail.  Especially, if you were partaking heavily of your product.


Ha, it makes reading threw all your post, that much better, lol


----------



## RichP (Jul 20, 2008)

I website i would refer you to is the http://www.jesterinfo.org/ (Jester Challenge) website.
It might be british, but the idea still applies, its a transatlantic race with no rules other than that the boats taking part must be from 20-30ft, skippers are fully responsible for everything about the safety of the boat etc. 
Pretty much all are on a limited budget like yourself, and the challenge has an impeccable safety record.

As another young person planning on the same things (slightly older at 21) i say go for it! And remember only you can say your qualified or not, i have an RYA Yachtmaster offshore qualification, but i didn't feel any more skilled after getting it! 
Remember people, he's asking for advice on how to do it, he's already done the bravest part, deciding to go!

P.s. my boats only 24ft, but a well proven sea boat with a good ballast ratio (but very wet!) I would say size is only a small part of fitness for purpose in this case. Other interesting reading would be a book called 'Sopranino' if its still in print.

Oh and sorry if i have re-iterated anything that has been previously said, i don't have time to read through all the pages right now!


----------



## RichP (Jul 20, 2008)

And OMG sorry about the revival of the dead topic, i found it in a search and forgot to check the date! Sorry!


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

RichP said:


> And OMG sorry about the revival of the dead topic, i found it in a search and forgot to check the date! Sorry!


Hey, don't worry about it. It's a good thread.

Maybe start another one and tell us more about your boat and the race. Sounds pretty interesting!


----------



## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Davidrogerson said:


> O.K worthed isn't a word but a typo still isn't important


I found this fellow's contribution to be pretty humorous.


----------



## kjmactavish (Sep 24, 2008)

*Live aboard in Toronto?*

Daveyjustin,

Since writing the following, have you found your boat and are you living aboard her yet? If yes, please send me a message as I'm also in Toronto and have some questions for you (with apologies for using this as my message medium - I'm a new member).

Kevin MacTavish



daveyjustin said:


> I'm doing this as well. Here's the plan I'm working on: I will graduate from university (film writing/directing) in April. I'm likely to buy an Alberg 30 this summer with a boat mortgage. I'll live on the boat, year round in Toronto until it is paid off.


----------



## eMKay (Aug 18, 2007)

The O.P. recently bought a Contessa 26, so his dream lives on, he found the right boat, now he just has to fix it up and begin learning. Look at his boat soon after he bought it, what a gorgeous little boat...


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

yep Livin and I go way back...

No really I first met him in another form..and he struck most of us as a man not to be deterred but yet listened and took advice from more experienced sailors with out criticism or defensiveness..Having him leave school when half way through was my and some others biggest caution..

Hes a good egg and working on his diesel mechanics ticket so we will be picking his brain one of these days...


Edit...I once tried to rename him Livinoutadream once he bought that boat but it didn't stick..


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

It is amazing to think that a couple months ago I joined this forum in hope of expanding my knowledge, and suceeding in a goal. I really have come a long way in the last couple months...... now actually owning my boat! and the majority of the encouragement came from sailnet so I really appreaciate it guys!
Thanks,Taylor


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Congrats... 


Livinondreams said:


> It is amazing to think that a couple months ago I joined this forum in hope of expanding my knowledge, and suceeding in a goal. I really have come a long way in the last couple months...... now actually owning my boat! and the majority of the encouragement came from sailnet so I really appreaciate it guys!
> Thanks,Taylor


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Livinondreams said:


> It is amazing to think that a couple months ago I joined this forum in hope of expanding my knowledge, and suceeding in a goal. I really have come a long way in the last couple months...... now actually owning my boat! and the majority of the encouragement came from sailnet so I really appreaciate it guys!
> Thanks,Taylor


Way to go, Taylor!

Hey, post some more boat photos if you get a chance. I can't be the only one that would love to hear more about the boat and the project.


----------



## mrwuffles (Sep 9, 2008)

isnt that the same kinda boat the girl in maiden voyage sailed for her circumnavigation? thats an awesome book
good luck


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes, Tania Aebi's Varuna is a Contessa 26. 


mrwuffles said:


> isnt that the same kinda boat the girl in maiden voyage sailed for her circumnavigation? thats an awesome book
> good luck


----------



## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Livinondreams said:


> It is amazing to think that a couple months ago I joined this forum in hope of expanding my knowledge, and suceeding in a goal. I really have come a long way in the last couple months...... now actually owning my boat! and the majority of the encouragement came from sailnet so I really appreaciate it guys!
> Thanks,Taylor


Taylor,
Nice work, Captain!


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Good Luck on your journey!


----------



## kjmactavish (Sep 24, 2008)

Livinondreams said:


> I really have come a long way in the last couple months...... now actually owning my boat!


Hey Taylor, I'm in a similar place. I'm looking for my first boat and something similar to what you've found is what I'm looking for (or maybe something different). I'd also love to see some pictures/descriptions and hear your story. Can you send me a PM (I can't send to you, yet - too new here). Thanks. Kevin


----------



## mygoggie (Sep 10, 2008)

Well, my 18 year old son is finishing up school now and he wants to sail full time next year. He has my full support and I firmly believe in living your dreams. My motto always will be: "The greatest fool is the one who did not try."

The greatest fun is going to sailing school with him, sailing with him, making mistakes with him and encouraging him ... how many old sailors can say they did that with their son?

My advise is:
1. Get your diesel mechanic certificate
2. Get an open waters diving certificate
3. Get your welding certificate and then do a cross training for underwater welding
4. Get your basic electricity wiring certificate.

With these qualifications you will ALWAYS find work in any part of the world!

Once you have traveled around the world and you know all the cultures and what the world looks like, go and study - you will not only achieve better results than the brats fresh out of school, but you will study what you love.

In any case you can never become a good naval architect or marine engineer without first knowing what makes a boat tick ... and that comes only from sailing and fixing these ladies for a few years.

PM me if you want to chat with my son.

All the best with your plans and live your dreams!!


----------



## SailingFlorida (Aug 7, 2008)

Wondering how Living is doing and what projects his boat needs before venturing into the blue?


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

SailingFlorida said:


> Wondering how Living is doing and what projects his boat needs before venturing into the blue?


Doin good just wishin for winter to come and go so I can get the boat moved and start livin aboard while I work on her! but for now just trying to save money to fund repairs and such

The boat needs many things before setting off, For now I need to build a rudder, do some painting, and wiring, But that is just the start of it and the to-do list will continue to grow as time goes on......it is a boat after all


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Livinondreams said:


> Doin good* just wishin for winter to come and go *so I can get the boat moved and start livin aboard while I work on her! but for now just trying to save money to fund repairs and such


Ah ya weenie...


----------



## SailingFlorida (Aug 7, 2008)

Livinondreams said:


> Doin good just wishin for winter to come and go so I can get the boat moved and start livin aboard while I work on her! but for now just trying to save money to fund repairs and such
> 
> The boat needs many things before setting off, For now I need to build a rudder, do some painting, and wiring, But that is just the start of it and the to-do list will continue to grow as time goes on......it is a boat after all


Glad to hear that you are working towards your dreams! If you havent already check out Zac Sutherland, he is a 16 yr old Cali native currently trying to be the youngest to circumnavigate. In his last blog he had a rough few days consisting of a broken tiler, broken boom, and also having motor problems as well. He is funded pretty well and still stugling to complete his journey. Keep that in mind while working towards your own trip.


----------



## RichP (Jul 20, 2008)

Hmm, i read a bit of his stuff, but i found it hard to believe he bought the boat with his savings as it said on the Sailnet news clip, when i was his age (only 5 years ago) my savings extended to somehow scraping enough money together to buy a cheap banger of a motorbike to get about on, as i working a job on nights to pay for rent and clothes etc as well as doing college all day! 
I appreciate that people can work when they are younger than 16 and save up, but a 36ft yacht even a restoration job seems a touch unrealistic!

I can connect more with your dream !


----------



## rayncyn51 (Aug 8, 2008)

Follow your dreams. Scociety does things backwards: School, work and save until you're old, then go have fun. If you have fun now, the experience you gain there will make school and work all that much more productive. Or you find out that school and work only buys you stuff. You can sail without stuff. 

"The memories of a man in his old age are the deeds of a youth in his prime" - Pink Floyd


----------



## harveyjp11 (Oct 19, 2008)

*Go Crew!*

If I were 18 again and had little money but still wanted to see the world then I would crew around the world....on other peoples' boats. You can google boats that need crew and you'd be surprised. You'll learn lots, see many places and probably have fun doing it---on other peoples' boats and using more of their money than yours. Sometimes you even get paid.


----------



## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Man, 
All the above is good sound advice to be weighed up and considered, but damn I wish I had done what your doing when I was 18. Im trying to do it now in my late 20's post university(sorry college to the north americans), with a career I will have to leave and a significant other( also committed to cruising luckily) to think of.

Congrats on the boat, A book I would recommend to you is 'Ocean Cruising on a budget' by Anne Hammick. Its a early 90's book but copies are around on ebay/amazon etc. It is a very detailed look at every aspect of getting out there and giving it a go with minimal money and to still be cruising safely and comfortably.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Update?*

So I recently joined this site and happened across this forum. I read the whole thing! It was like reading a book, absolutely fantastic posts. Well I would like to know how its going at this point? When do you plan to have it seaworthy and start sailing around?

After reading all the posts and considering my own opinion, here is what i think:

Many people gave you advice to go to college first, I disagree with that. I have traveled extensively over continents countries and cities, mainly in between college semesters. I am now 20k in debt and will probably be about 35-40k in debt by the time i am done. The most important education i have learned thus far was not from any classroom but rather from the different cultures languages, and locales i have visited. You and i have the same dream, I unfortunately took the "educational" path. This situation reminds me of a poem by Robert Frost, many of you have probably heard it before:

TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,	
And sorry I could not travel both	
And be one traveler, long I stood	
And looked down one as far as I could	
To where it bent in the undergrowth; 5

Then took the other, as just as fair,	
And having perhaps the better claim,	
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;	
Though as for that the passing there	
Had worn them really about the same, 10

And both that morning equally lay	
In leaves no step had trodden black.	
Oh, I kept the first for another day!	
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,	
I doubted if I should ever come back. 15

I shall be telling this with a sigh	
Somewhere ages and ages hence:	
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-	
I took the one less traveled by,	
And that has made all the difference.

Which road will you take? Im 25 now, and i have very few regrets but i always wonder if i had taken another road when i was younger if it would have been better. Now i have to work after school for at least a year or two and pay off my debt and then another 2 to save up for a my boat. LISTEN to me when i say this, you did the right thing by buying your boat. There is nothing worse than suppressing that spark to sail as i have had to do and will continue to for several years now due to my path i chose. Girls will come along, job offers, the house, the car... more and more distractions until your dream seems like nothing but a mirage... TAKE it now while you have it within your grasp.

If you get nothing else from this rant, remember this, Ive taken over 150 credits so far (which i will probably end up turning into 2 separate degrees) many of them not connected with my major because i would rather have been doing something more interesting. 90% of what i have learned in college i could have learned from reading a textbook while on a sailboat.

So... you have to ask yourself, what do you want from schooling... an education from life experience and self study from subjects you are actually interested in, or a Piece of paper after 5 years and 40k dollars.

In closing, many schools offer the ability to "test out" of classes if you know the subject, i have done this 3 times with various classes just from my own research. Also there are accredited schools that offer "home study" courses that will transfer as well as count for credit. You could do something like this while you sail.

Best of luck to you, Ill join you on the seas in 4 or 5 years once i am no longer a slave to my "higher education". I hope your an experienced sailor by then with many miles under your belt, and life experience too precious for any mere classroom.

Peterb31


----------



## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

I think university is not for everyone. It sounds like 'living' has a lot of skills that are not taught at universities.
30 years ago university educated people were fewer to be had and so demanded good jobs. Now, everybody goes. That has diluted the value of a degree. To get the good jobs you now have to have advanced degrees.
I run into people who have university education who can't spell and are working at Best Buy.
Meantime, trade schools are folding left & right. Boat labor bills at around $90/hour and up. 
Go against the flow, don't do what everybody else is doing. They are lemmings. Yachtmaster or welder will pay well and be significantly more interesting careers.

Speaking from experience as an art school dropout with a nice career in film production.


----------



## Waterrat (Sep 8, 2007)

I will spare you the long winded advice. Keep going. Good work. You will not fit where you used to fit before you left. Not bad not good but different.


----------



## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

living, if your still around as winter eases up over there It would be great to hear how things are progressing.


----------



## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

_You cant get in a boat and take off, it's too dangerous._
Every day is dangerous.
_You might die out there._
You're gonna die anyway.
_You must finish college first_
There are 30 year olds in college.
_You don't have enough money._
You never have enough money. By the time you do you'll just be another old rich a** h**e.
_You have to buy a house first and start a family._
Then you're stuck for 30 years if the housing market drops like it did on me.
_those other countries aren't safe_
This one isn't so safe. Almost any country you visit is full of people doing just fine. They work, they eat, they enjoy each other, they just don't all have a BMW and a 196" flat screen.
_You might lose everything_
You're born with nothing and you die with nothing but your stories.


----------



## Lookin4Freedom (Dec 2, 2008)

young buck, what did you do? I am not much older than you, and it's almost impossible for me to try this. I have a job, debt, wife, family, dog.... It all adds up. But I am trying, and I will get there. It will simply take me YEARS to do something so simple and take 1 year off cruising. PLEASE - go, and go for the rest of us!


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

hey all, Sorry its been so long since an update. I have moved to fredericksburg va and I am still going to college. I still have the contessa and have finally put enough money in the bank to really get her fixed up. Had to sell my truck and get an old beater but sacrifices must be made! I am taking off of school again after december to really get to work, I have actually considered buying a different boat that is closer to being seaworthy but we will see what happens either way hopefully by spring I will be living aboard and really begginning preperations. It has taken much longer then expected to get everything on track but I am still working towards it and hopefully getting closer. Luckily I live by my uncle who has a sailboat so I still get a fair amount of time out on the water. I'll try not to disapear for so long without an update next time, might try making a website/blog


----------



## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Livinondreams said:


> hey all, Sorry its been so long since an update. I have moved to fredericksburg va and I am still going to college. I still have the contessa and have finally put enough money in the bank to really get her fixed up. Had to sell my truck and get an old beater but sacrifices must be made! I am taking off of school again after december to really get to work, I have actually considered buying a different boat that is closer to being seaworthy but we will see what happens either way hopefully by spring I will be living aboard and really begginning preperations. It has taken much longer then expected to get everything on track but I am still working towards it and hopefully getting closer. Luckily I live by my uncle who has a sailboat so I still get a fair amount of time out on the water. I'll try not to disapear for so long without an update next time, might try making a website/blog


LOD,

On occasion, we have had inquiries from other young sailors in similar situations with similar aspirations, and quite a few of us have pointed them to this thread as an example of what can be accomplished. It's helpful that you've come back with an update -- thanks for being frank about the status of your project/endeavor.

If you have time, I'm sure a lot of folks would be curious to hear more details about your progress, in particular the unanticipated challenges you've encountered. In other words, what would you do differently today knowing what you know? Different boat, stay in school, quit school, etc?

Very good to hear from you and thanks for the update!  Keep us posted.


----------



## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

So great to hear the update Living......

Also great to to hear that you still have the dream, and are still pursuing it dispute the challenges of making it happen. If these things just came about easily then it wouldn't be nearly as satisfying when we do get out there perhaps....

Alot of people on here are behind you man, I second JRP in saying that it would be great if you can fill us in every now and again...sometimes also talking about it makes it easier to work through the frustrations and keep this dream alive.


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

Over the last year I have been pursuing this endeavor it has been a big learning experience  . At first I figured that the best route to go would be to buy a project boat, which is when I found the contessa 26 and just loved the boat. When I left college and started working full time to fund the repairs it became difficult to put money into the boat when I had rent,bills and food to buy(all those little expenses really add up) Over time I was able to put away some money but not enough.At the end of the summer I moved to fredericksburg to renovate a house. Which is only 30 minutes from the place where I plan to keep my boat. It is also right by the local college so I figured I would take a few classes to get a little closer to a degree. I sold my fairly nice truck and downgraded to a beater which put my bank account back up, my classes are done soon so its time to get back on track. Knowing what I know now, It probably would of been better to have waited to buy a boat till I had funds and the time to work on it. I would also have been able to save more if I didn't have to pay slip fee's every month,they may not be much but they sure add up. As time has gone on, I have found many deals on capable boats that are much closer to being seaworthy then mine. Yes, they are more pricey then what I spent on the contessa but refitting like many have said is expensive and time consuming. So if I go the route of continuing to fix the contessa I will probably have the same if not more into her as I would if I had waited and bought a little less of a project. I am very excited now though because I finally have funds to really get going. The whole college thing is a tough gig. After taking a year off and then coming back,I should have either just went year round and finished in 2 years or not gone at all. College is a great experience and can benifet anyones future depending on the lifestyle someone wants to live. I have become used to being thrifty and don't need fancy things so I feel that college isn't a necessity for me at this time. On the bright side, I am near half way done so If I decide to go back again....for the 3rd time I would have less of a class load to complete. To really follow through with something like this at a younger age many sacrifices must be made...no fancy ride,can't buy the girlfriend nice things ,always working etc.It all sounds easy when its in your head but many difficulties do arise. Everything is definitly taking much longer then planned, but as each day passes I know I am getting closer. Like I have always been told...Patience is a virtue


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Was going to post a week or so ago asking if anyone had heard from you.

Life is pretty much the same for all of us Livin...but we all think we have a different angle on it when were young...thanks for being honest and upfront.

I still say finish Collage..know one can take that piece of paper away from you...I know its hard and a drag...that's what employers are looking at more then the degree itself...the sticktoitiveness to see something through.

Glad your still forging forward and haven't giving up on anything yet..you will look back years from now and be able to pinpoint the lessons learned and advice given that was ignored or taken and pass that on to the next dreamer..its all good!.....we all learn the way we need to... for some of us its the school of hard knocks...but the lesson is seldom forgotten. 

OH ya!...Keep your zipper shut...


----------



## SeaStrutter (Oct 10, 2006)

Hey LOD,

I was in the same place as you in my early twenties - In fact, I asked for advice, like you, and got similar responses.

I ended up purchasing a fat, slow, but "large" Bayfield 25 - I could stand under the companionway hatch, and the toilet wasn't under the "nookie board" of the v-berth - WOW!!! No world cruiser... That was my dream, but in the end I decided to do the ICW, and Bahamas - Abacos and Exumas. I'll tell ya, as another poster mentioned, there are years worth of cruising waiting for you in the Caribbean! If you like it, and want to keep going, either get some work down there (hard), or since the boat is so small, put her on blocks for a few months, go home and make some dough, then return!

The boat was less than perfect, I didn't have enough money, equipment, or security for my inevitable return. I don't regret it at all - was one of the best times of my life - spent a great year on-board island hopping.

Here are some things I would do if in your shoes:

-Get a part-time job at WM or another marine store - take the money and use it to outfit the vessel and only pay approx. cost +20% for gear.

-Get some tickets - STCW95, Navigation courses... You may end up being able to find some work as a skipper for a charter company down there.

-Live-aboard at the dock when most of the work is done - You'll save rent and learn whether or not you can live one the boat full-time.

-Go minimal on gear - get the safety and nav gear you need - but ask yourself each time "would I rather have an extra month(e.g.) in the islands or be able to have a digital readout of where the wind is coming from, etc..."

-Get good ground tackle - heavy anchors and all chain so that you are confident about anchoring and as such will not use marinas.

I'm sure there are dozens of things that I'm forgetting - email me and I'll be happy to help ya.

I hope you make it happen. It can be done - I was amazed by the number of guys in their 20's in small boats in the Bahamas - I always looked at it like taking a year off to go "backpacking" like many high school grads do before uni- except my backpack floated and was way nicer than a flea-ridden hostel!


----------



## snider (Jun 26, 2006)

*I Hear Ya!*



Livinondreams said:


> It has taken much longer then expected to get everything on track but I am still working towards it and hopefully getting closer.


Well I'm on the 6th year of my 5 year plan! If you had asked me 6 years ago I would have bet the farm that I would have been cruising for at least a year by my 30th B-day which is next Aug. I decided to go back to school first for a more portable career. What's taking so long now is digging out of the debt I've acumulated from being in school for three years. The longer I stay shoreshide the harder it is to not acumulate bills, cable, internet, computer. All I have is about $15,000 more on my student loan, hopefully paid off by July if I have to work 7 days a week,I WILL be debbt free by 30 years old. Me and my GF are doing pretty good. We only have one 12 year old truck we share and keep our bills to the minimum. She also has about the same in student loans and nothing else. I' owned 6 boats in the last so many years and while I wouldn't take that back because the education has been valuable albeit expensive, if I had managed that better I could have a pretty sweet cruiser right now. As it stands I have the perfect boat for what we do, local cruising and racing. I also bought a boat that needed a huge refit cheap thinking it was the way to go. It turned out to be a money pit that I would have a lot more money into than it was worth.

The thing I've learned about boats that need work is you need to find something with some working systems that don't need upgrading. For instance a friend just got a great deal on an older boat someone had just replaced the rig and sails, it needed a lot of other work but the most expensive thing was new. Or a boat that was recently raced or cruised that suffered dome damage or engine failure. At least some thing work and doen't need attention. My dream would be to find a cruiser that has recently been used and updated that has a blown engine. I'd toss the engine and related equipment and go. When you have to replace, rig, sails, engine, head, fiberglass and so on it becomes a financial nightmare. Best to find something in the middle.

I'm going! Hope I see you out there.

End the end I'm glad I have a career, I can work as an RN anywhere. I'd rather use my captains liscense but it's a great backup. Screw school if it won't directly help you.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I'm just pumped that you guys are hungry for it. THAT'S what it's all about. I agree with Sea. Do what you gotta do - but get out there.

BTW - does WM have the "nookie board"? I gotta get me one of those!


----------



## Starlyte (Sep 27, 2009)

I wanted to do pretty much the same thing. 
At seven-teen I decided......
My family had no money for vacations and I loved the water, so right out of high school...I joined the USN.

Became involved in OPS, been just about everywhere and.....
after enlistment, finished my education (the military gave me a respect for self disipline and achieving goals)
Currently I'm the financial auditor of a multi-milllion dollar company.
(unfortunately, I'm not paid like you think.. or I would wish...)
I choose a small boat because I don't have alot of time avail and it's good for me.
I will tell you this...I've seen some VERY nasty storms.....
and that was on a 250ft boat....kicked our butt!!!!
Literally tying yourself to your bunk so you dont fall out.
The pleasure of it all.....I have stories that are so funny and odd, I can't repeat them!!!!!


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Starlyte said:


> The pleasure of it all.....I have stories that are so funny and odd, I can't repeat them!!!!!


Oh c'mon, man! Just one or two.


----------



## Starlyte (Sep 27, 2009)

I can't say anything and I'm sorry to leave you hanging'

Put it this way.....to keep it nice....

You cannot imagine what people do, and sometimes expect in private.

It takes a strong, moral soldier, to do the right thing.


----------



## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Hi there LOD

Good to see you are making it happen.

Here is a link to something you might like. read the bit on Shrimpy and Shane Acton. He started off with less money and less knowledge than you.

http://twin-keeler.org/newsletter/twinkeeler2_2005.pdf

The book is difficult to find but is supposed to be around in pdf form on the internet. I am sitting in St Thomas on my retirement boat in the rain on a crappy wifi connection and have not been able to find a download site that works but it could be choice internets fault.

I took a 7 year chunk of my retirement early 20 years ago and met someone not unlike you while waiting to set off from Gand Canaria to cross the Atlantic. He was a woodworker and was able to scare up enough work from fellow boaties to keep himself going. He too had a simple 26 footer.

There is work out there and if you do good work word will get around. Mind you diesel work tends to be of a distress purchase, ie nobody really enjoys buying and fitting a cylinder head while woodwork is usually something that people will see and enjoy.


----------



## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

Newbie sailboat owner here. Sundance 23, new rigging, rebuilt outboard, overall in pretty good shape, on a trailer, going to launch in May. Planning on cutting cable television out of my life and spending all my off time sailing up and down the Columbia River. This year's vacation will be a trip to Astoria, but I'm not going to hit the ocean, yet. I'm middle aged and think this hobby will help keep me young. 

I hope to read more and more about your new boat. Would really like to see some pictures of both interior and exterior. Any repair tips would be greatly appreciated. 

Just wish I was 30 years younger getting into this ad-venture.  I think about sailing most all the time. Absorbing books, DVDs, magazines daily. 

 Happy Sailing.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Hey carl - welcome to SN dude.


----------



## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

Thank you very much.


----------



## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

Hey Living wheres the update ? LOL good on ya man....


----------



## Livinondreams (Feb 26, 2008)

HDChopper said:


> Hey Living wheres the update ? LOL good on ya man....


I now have a Westsail 28 that I am working on. Hoping to move aboard when winter passes so I can have more time to get her into shipshape. I am living back in northern va and currently keeping the boat in annapolis,a little over an hour away as long as I don't hit traffic. She is much less of a project then my previous endeavor...lesson learned:definitly worth saving up a little longer to get a boat in better shape And the roomy westsail feels like a mansion compared to the contessa. College is on hold again for now,might take a few night classes here and there. But for the time being, all my spare time goes to the boat. Getting ready to get to work rebuilding the bowspirit in my garage, I will post some pics when I get started on it. Things are going in the right direction and hopefully progress quickly.

I love looking back at this thread and seeing how much has happened since my orginal posting. I am actually somewhat close to accomplishing my orginal post,although it has taken a couple years and a couple wrong turns


----------



## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Livinondreams said:


> I now have a Westsail 28 that I am working on. Hoping to move aboard when winter passes so I can have more time to get her into shipshape. I am living back in northern va and currently keeping the boat in annapolis,a little over an hour away as long as I don't hit traffic. She is much less of a project then my previous endeavor...lesson learned:definitly worth saving up a little longer to get a boat in better shape And the roomy westsail feels like a mansion compared to the contessa. College is on hold again for now,might take a few night classes here and there. But for the time being, all my spare time goes to the boat. Getting ready to get to work rebuilding the bowspirit in my garage, I will post some pics when I get started on it. Things are going in the right direction and hopefully progress quickly.
> 
> I love looking back at this thread and seeing how much has happened since my orginal posting. I am actually somewhat close to accomplishing my orginal post,although it has taken a couple years and a couple wrong turns


So great to hear from you again!

A couple of wrong turns and a few years is what it takes most of us to achieve our dreams. I believe it makes the sunsets prettier and more special and the places will be the little bit more magic knowing how hard you had to work to make it happen.

Continued good luck, would love to see photos!


----------



## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

Yes pic's !

Glad to hear from ya , Westsail 28's are great looking boats & capeable of rideing the Sea from what I read...


----------



## jordanship (Jun 15, 2009)

> I love looking back at this thread and seeing how much has happened since my orginal posting. I am actually somewhat close to accomplishing my orginal post,although it has taken a couple years and a couple wrong turns


Love this thread too. What a cool journey LOD!


----------



## LakeSuperiorGeezer (Oct 8, 2010)

Smaller is cheaper to buy and maintain. Here are some boats from Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere:
Albin Vega 27
Folkboat 25
Contessa/J.J. Taylor 26
Pearson Triton 28
Cape Dory 25D
Bristol 27


----------

