# Water Useage/conservation Cruising



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

This thread is for those trying to get a feel for what their water useage will be cruising. I have tried to keep a pretty good track of it for us and over the years, we have a good generality. However, I want to STRESS that this is a generality. Every boat is different because the climate and people are different. Some people have long hair (a water-killer, IMHO), some have kids (an even BIGGER water killer <smile>), some are accomplished cruisers and racers, some pack extra jugs, drinks soups, hot climates, cold climates, etc. My point is that these are just generalities but a good place to average for your voyages.

We carry roughly 135g fresh water on Sea Mist. I would say about 110 of that is realistically usable as part of it resides in a hot water tank. We can, with conservation, go about two weeks on that and have. Now, that is not super-conservation as you would use if crossing an ocean. This conservation includes a 5g bucket (maybe two) with ammonia in it for washing clothes. It includes a very skimpy shower. It includes some alternatives, as we do keep gatorade and bottled water aboard but don't use it a lot. It also includes drinking alcoholic beverages which in my opinion, causes you to drink more water for replacement. This is on a boat in the sub tropics of Florida. This is with two adults and two kids of 9 and 12. Younger children may consume less water, but they also don't conserve it as well.

So my numbers, as a cruiser, is 110g @ 14 days @4 people and a 38lb bulldog. That equates to about 2. gallons/person/day. For more comfort, less conservation, we often use the 12 day number which is about 2.3g. remember, this also includes the dog. No conservation is about 10 days at 2.75.

Pretty conservative is not living really 'comfortably'. This is not long showers and it is not fresh water washes. It probably is not showers everyday.

Incidentally, lets discuss some uses and ways we conserve. I have measured my water usage on a shower. If I am very conservative, I can shower in about 3/4 of a gallon. Less conservative but conservative, about 1.25 gallons. My wife who has longer hair will use a bit more. I think she came out at 1.5-2g. I have not measured the kids. But, showers aren't the killer for water that many people think they are. You can learn to conserve. Tricks are as follows: Drop your rag into the bottom of the shower to begin with. Get hair wet. Shampoo but do not rinse. Use water from rinsing hair to get rag wet (if it is not already). lather rag. Wash body. Drop rag into bottom of water basin (where water runs through) and rinse body starting with hair. A wand-type shower head is best for this. Rinse out rag in water that collected in bottom of shower. It will still be soapy.. so what. Hang up rag and you are done. That is the very conservative method. For those that want a hot shower, you can also collect the water that you run to get it hot in a container to be returned to fresh water supply. Also, we drop our bathing suits in the bottom of the shower and let all the soapy water run over them and let everyone stand on everyone elses bathing suits. WHen all showers are done, we will either hang out to dry or rinse in ammonia water (see below) and hang to dry.

Depending on how long we are out, we will often wash the boat. We wash in salt water (prefer boat Zoap). We generally collect the shower water and can use it for a fresh water rinse for the cockpit. You can do this with a basic stick-type pump that you get to pull the water out of your tender and keep it in empty water jugs.

We ALWAYS keep a stopper in the kitchen sink, and sometimes in the head sinks. We use this for rinsing off glasses or depending on how the water was used, it can also be your rinse water for dishes. When conserving, we do wash our dishes in salt water in a 5g bucket with joy and bleach. You will be surprised how well that cleans the dishes! I do not know what is in salt water, but it works very well and it is also great because someone can be washing in the cockpit while the other person is rinsing and drying down below. You also don't have to worry about cleaning off the dishes in the trash or how much food gets into the sink. You will find as cruisers that trash becomes a huge issue as well as its smell. So the old habit of wiping off the food on plates and sticking it in the trash will be a huge mistake because after a few days in the tropics, that trash will STINK horridly!! Instead, as mentioned above, everything wash in salt in a 5g bucket, rinse in fresh. Minimizes trash, water consumption, and stench.

We have two tanks. One is 65, the other 35 (we also carry four 5g jugs of water, but the measurements here were based upon two which is what I had when I took them). We use the 65 g tank first. The reason for this is several fold: It allows us to know when we really have to conserve (showers may be cut out if we hit the 35 too early) and it is a safety net if we accidentally empty a tank (has happened twice, both when the kids left a faucet on). Many cruisers prefer manual pumps for this reason, but outside of accidental losses, I cannot see a manual pump of any help. And quite frankly, I prefer the ease and comfort of at least feeling like we are at home. We do have a manual pump that connects to our sink which is our emergency backup should a pump/electricity fail. We also carry a spare pump. Another 'trick' is to put your auto pump where you can hear it. Many boats (and I almost did this too) put their pumps in a back closet or lazarette so they cannot hear it. Hearing my pump has saved me! And as a cruiser you become very accustomed to that sound.

We wash clothes via lemmon ammonia. It works pretty well. What you do is you get a 5g bucket and fill fairly full with fresh water and put about a cup or so of ammonia in it. You can drop your clothes in it, shake them around, and let them sit for a while. Shake them against before wringing out and and let them dry. No rinsing necessary. You will not smell any ammonia in your clothes. We often do our bathing suits, wash cloths, dish rags, and skivvys that way. We generally can make our towels last for two weeks by hanging them out to dry everyday.

We are big believers in bleach. Here is a great trick: Take a cheap 12 oz disposable water bottle like you would find at the convenience store. The cheaper the better because you want to be able to squeeze it. Make your bleach solution in it. Drill a hole in the lid with your smallest drill bit. Now replace the cap and you have a very good dispenser of bleach water for your rinse water or to clean off your rags when done. You cannot use a spray bottle for very long with bleach water because it corrodes. This is a super cheap solution. We keep one of these in the shower and beside the sink.

When done washing dishes, always rinse your rag really well in your rinse water and spray it down with your little bleach bottle that you keep beside the sink. We also do this in the shower when we are done showering to keep it from mildewing. Caution around wood with this trick.

You can microwave your sponges to kill the mildew/stench. We do about 30 secs.

Some people turn the breaker to their water pumps on/off when using to keep from accidental loss. We don't generally, but up to you.

We keep an emergency backup of water on the boat. This is generally about 2.5-5g's in the bilge.

I am sure I will think of some other things, but that is a start. Remember, these are OUR numbers, which may be different than your numbers for reasons discussed above.

Brian

PS I welcome all others to share their water usage here... especially cruisers.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Just a word of caution: THere have been anchorages (esp mooring fields) where we did not feel comfortable using the water for washing dishes or much of anything. In those cases, that is when having the sink of water you have been collecting really useful.

Brian


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Oh yeah, another point (I will probably have several of these), the water usage per person may be higher on less people. THat is because you will still fill the 5g bucket for one person, but four people can use it. Same with the sink water or shower water.

Brian


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## RTB (Mar 5, 2009)

Nice CD. Thanks for some pointers that will help us in the future. We are pretty new out here cruising, and can use all the help we can get.

Your numbers are spot on as far as I'm concerned. We carry 80 gallons, and go 3 weeks on that. It's just myself and my wife. So, just under 2 gallons/day per person. We don't carry bottled water these days. We did at first, but as you say, trash becomes an issue over time.

In the Bahamas, you not only pay for water in most places, but also pay to rid yourself of the bag or two of trash that has collected. $5.oo/bag in Staniel Cay.

We haven't used our tanks for showering so far. Fortunately, there were plenty of rainy days in the Bahamas. A dinghy holds a lot of water! That was what we used for bathing, and washing hair. We had stopped in Nassau on the way down to the Exumas. We showered there before heading down. The next shower that we had was when we returned to Nassau 5 weeks later.

I'll probably think of some questions for you in the future, so don't go away....

Ralph
Water view at low tide | sailing away with R & B


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

On my last trip from BC to Tonga and back ,I never took water from ashore, catching all I needed from my decks, and drinking water from my mainsail via lazy bag held up by lazy jacks. A plastic bucket under the front end with a 3/4 plastic thru hull and hose, leading to a plastic valve below decks, lets you fill your tanks without going on deck in the night. Washed my clothes and bod in sea water with dishwashing soap, no problem. Rinsed beans in sea water, no problem. Even soaked them in sea water, no problem . Added three cups of fresh for cooking, which left just the right amount of salt in them. Washed dishes in salt water , with only a brief rinse required afterwards, using very little fresh water.
Didn't have my watermaker then. Now I have one, but no urge to go anywhere at the moment. Lots of the best water in the world here , free for the taking.


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

We also end up using about 2 gal/person/day on average when we're in "careful" mode. I just cut my hair really short, unlike my avatar from a couple of years ago, so maybe our total usage will go down? We *don't* use saltwater for washing, partly because some of the places we like to stay have questionable water quality, and partly because it always seems to take so much freshwater to get the salt out that it becomes a net zero. However, we are fanatical about using the pressure cooker to conserve water & fuel while cooking.


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## minnow1193 (Dec 20, 2011)

I can't speak to cruising, but imagine if everyone examined their personal water usage this way. Don't think the old man that thinks he needs to hose the dirt off his driveway every other day, just for lack of anything better to do, has ever given a thought to how limited out fresh water supply can be. Good thread, Brian. Always a pleasure to hear about your adventures. 

Steve


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Good numbers CD. I'd say we are pretty close to those as well. However, we shower on deck with a 5 gallon bucket as the it is too hot below. Our shower water is a separate entity from the drinking supply., kept in 5 gallon jugs or a few buckets on deck while at anchor. Enough rain here in SE Asia to keep the tanks topped with a few well placed tarps and buckets.
Like your bleach ideas, vinegar works wonders too. A small spay bottle with fresh water is how we do a fresh rinse on the dishes. 
Offshore I'll wash in salt and a one quart fresh water rinse is all it takes. A short haircut helps.
Our historical average is 1.1 gallons per day per person, excluding showers. Not to hard on us either. With over 100 gallons in tanks and another 30 in Jugs we are good to go for about 2 months. Now if we could get the fresh veggies to last that long...


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

When our children were with us, as a family of four, we used to get by with 200 gallons for a month. This was with bathing in salt water and rinsing with a bit of fresh water. This puts us at 1.7 gallons/day/person and not far from the two gallons. Likely, our daily bathing practice was the difference.


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## marianclaire (Feb 4, 2010)

Single handed I use about 1 gal/day. Most of that is for drinking.  Might explain the single handed part. Dan S/V Marian Claire


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

BBQ .... I guess you have a watermaker ? How does that fit in with your water usage plan ?

Our girl has a 50 litre (aprox 12US gallons) per hour. On the hook we tend to run the donk for an hour a day anyway so at least theoretically we can cover all our water needs. We also have a collector for use with boom awning. Tanks hold about the same as BBQ's .... roughly 135US gallons.



Yes to AeV re short hair. Difference that makes is remarkable if you wash you hair daily. 

Of course minimising the amount of shampoo you use will help as well. Most people use way to much and it then takes forever to rinse out.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

One of the best things about New England is the many town docks that service the hundreds of mooring fields everywhere. You can pull up and fill the water tank, no problem. If it's a weekday with nobody waiting, you can wash the boat too. Just did all that yesterday morn in Martha's Vineyard. In Newport, they have 2 floating docks out in the mooring fields with water taps. Not every harbor is 'friendly' but plenty are.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Brian-
Most of us youngsters don't remember why ammonia is generally not used as a ;aundry agent anymore. The problem is that it attacks latex and similar stretchy things. So if you have underwear with an elastic waistband? Bras? Anything with latex content or "rubber" ? Every time it is washed in ammonia, it ages and gets brittle, way faster than it would with detergent.

Just something to bear in mind, that you won't see printing on the ammonia bottle.


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## gerrycooper (Dec 1, 2002)

Used plenty of hand sanitizer and baby wipes for showering.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

I carry a lot of water for such a small boat (28') 65 gal in v bearth tank, 40 in bladders, and 30 in Jerry's. That's my off shore load. I also carry about 4 cases of bottled water. As far as garbage, I squoosh the bottle up as small as possible, when I have it completely compressed, I put the cap back on. The vacum created keeps it in that compressed shape. I have instaled 2 50 gal. tanks under each cockpit laz, st and prt. This is extreme, I only fill these when I'm going to stay inside the reef and go out to a lagoon with the wife for extended periods. She has a lot of hair and we like to frolick in our abundance of fresh water. Off shore these tanks are empty and essentially air pockets if something decides to go down. Yes I lost all that storage, but I don't have anything to store. I also keep my after most Laz empty. all my weight is below the water line, even my tooth brush ( which I have cut the handle off to reduce weight) jus kidd'n. As for consumption, 2 gal. a day off shore and as much as I want near coastal. We are in clear clean warm tropical or sub tropical water pretty much always. We use salt water for everything 'cept drinking. We swim with a bottle of joy to bath , and rince with fresh mist from a pump up bug spray. I use those ready rice packs and pasta pouches off shore which really cuts down on cooking water, and fuel. I boil my potatos in salt water. I whipe my self down with rubbing alcohol a few times a day off shore to get the salt spray and sweat off my skin. I like to carry as much as possible on Voyages, just in case I'm demasted and float'n for a while till I get the jerry rig together or what ever else would keep me out there longer than I planned like weather. I alway's double up. 7 day's at sea means 14 in food. I have no engine and so no fuel tank so I have all that space and weight I can play with. Also that means I can be becalmed and drifting. I was raised on the same little sloop I'm sailing today by my Grand father, He used to make me bath in a salt water bucket that had vinger mixed in, he said the vinger made the salt sink to the bottom of the bucket. I don't know about that, but I smelled like a salad for a few years as a tween-ager. I look at the life Brian provides for his kids on the Catalina and wonder how those kids would handle the life I had on that little sloop. It would probably be illeagal to keep a child in the conditions I was subjected to, But I loved it and am independent from almost all the stuff I see cruisers today absolutly need. Back then we kept a few jerry cans and when those where empty we used the V berth tank, which alway's smelled of sulfur, I think from the fliter system he had, so we drank hot tang. I remember being in some lagoon, blowed in from a norther in Northern Eluthra back in '79. I was like 9 or 10, and we had to boil the water for safety and mix with tang for taste. That may be why I carry so much extra today, either way, I like having an abundance and prefer to lose any tenderness to the boats prefromance in trade to not having to ration like I'm in a life raft drinking out of a thimble.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I did the math. When we're cruising, we use approx 8 gallons per person, per day for the two of us. 

That's all in. Drinking, coffee, cooking, shower everyday, washing, etc. It also include one load of laundry per week. I've even been known to spray the teak cockpit floor down with with the transom shower occasionally, est 1pt usage. No salt water usage, but typical conservation practices. Pretty decadent I suppose, but our water supply lasts 14 days for the two of us. That's how I got to the above per day usage, which includes some bottled drinking water of about 0.5 gallon per day per person. The biggest bottled water usage is for coffee. Needless to say, we could dramatically reduce this usage by skipping showers, using salt water, not running laundry. Just don't need to.

Personally, I want to be able to be away for a minimum of 10 days without needing to land for water. Whether I plan to or not, its pretty unlikely we would be off a dock somewhere for longer, so this consumption works and no one feels like they are in prison.

I also don't think there has ever been an exception to having someone along for a day here or there, while we're cruising. Obviously, this increases consumption, but we top off when we pick them up and again when we drop them off. Simple and never a concern over usage, as a result. We just had another couple aboard for several days last week that were new to boating. Easy, as they were accustom to water conservation when camping.

The number one trick for conservation isn't the obvious on/off, don't let water run when you don't need it approach. It's to get everyone in the habit of not turning the water all the way on at all. You never need to, unless filling a pot. Think about the slug of water one runs over a toothbrush at home. I bet you use a pint of water to brush your teeth. Now consider the trickle it would really take to wet the brush as much as that slug does.

The best way to conserve water when showering is the dish sprayer head, usually found on transom showers. On when you need it and off the second you don't. My wife will use our transom shower most often when cruising in warm weather. I would love to measure the difference from the head faucet down below. Just the time it takes to reach over with soap in my eyes to find the lever, after I don't need it on anymore, must really add up over a week or two.

I suspect our usage level will suggest to some that we hardly conserve at all. However, we do. We just don't deny ourselves the ability to use water for whatever we need. If we used our supply, like we were at home, it would last exactly 3 days.

Finally, we hold water in two equal tanks, mounted in the bilge on each side of the keel. While a good location for the weight, we still run one down to half, switch to the other and run it empty, then switch back to the first. Both weight management and the best way to always feel you have a backup. It also keeps the supply circulating with new water, if you're not using it up on a longer cruise. Admittedly, most of ours are only a few days away from our slip at a time.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

hellosailor said:


> Brian-
> Most of us youngsters don't remember why ammonia is generally not used as a ;aundry agent anymore. The problem is that it attacks latex and similar stretchy things. So if you have underwear with an elastic waistband? Bras?


Brian only wears cotton bras.


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

This is a pretty old post, but it contains links to EPA data that says that average water use in US for land dwellers is *70 *gallons per day. That's indoor only, doesn't even account for watering the lawn. The "Life Afloat" Archives: Water, water everywhere? Okay, we use seawater to flush our toilet and take our laundry to the laundromat. Subtract that use from EPA numbers and the average landlubber uses 35 gpd. Wow. We'd be filling our water tank every two days.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Interesting discussion and some great “helpful Hannah” tips from Cruisingdad. Dad, what is the concentration of bleach solution in your cleaning bottle? Can you use a bottle with a “drinking cap” instead of drilling a hole in a standard cap? On Freya, we have 59 gallons and have never run out, albeit, MrsB and I do the one week between ports cruise thing. On the race boats, we do the 1 gal/crew/day personal allotment, which I’m thinking needs to be expanded to include a one gal/day for boat communal usage (cooking, dish rinsing etc.). In Mexico, we get our laundry done at the major “stops” (dirt cheap and helps out the local economy). I had amebic dysentery back in my younger days so clean water and proper sanitation is important to me. I am currently trying to figure out how to stuff a water maker into my 34 footer. Anyone got suggestions? Aaron, some day you just got to post a photo essay on your 28 footer when it is provisioned up for a cruise – it would be an inspiration to all of us who cruise in smaller boats.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

The EPA data and the 75gpppd number also include things like showers. "New" restricted flow showerheads may be 2.5gpm, which is 25 gallons during a ten-minute shower. I know some showers are twice that long, that's 50 gallons in one shot, closer to a hundred with a proper old-fashioned shower that doesn't have a flow restrictor.

Ditto toilets, what are the new ones down to? (And finally working.) But unless you've got really hard water, a flush toilet lasts forever, a lot of the hungry old ones are still out there. 

Very different once you have to tank it and don't get it on the pipe feed.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

My 400 litres/100 gallons lasts me (alone) about 3 months. If I restricted it I could easily get 4 months.

When there were two of us we were using too much water so bought spray bottles to have at every faucet..

I also plumbed salt water into the sink with an electric pump.

All washing of dishes is with salt water and then a spray with a spray bottle.

Any shower on a long passage you can use as much fresh water as you want! --- as long as all the fresh comes from spray bottle. You wrist falls off from pumping before the water runs out. But its a good enough shower at sea and can be had every day. (thats .5 to .75 of a litre).

Currently I have not filled with water for 4 months and have one tank full. The other must be pretty close to empty but I do have a rain catcher on it!

For showers in port, I have one every day, I have a solar 2.5 gallon plastic water bag. I fill it about half full. I have glued up about half the holes in the nozzle. (Its just made me remember I didnt refill it this morning and need a shower this afternoon! Damn! LOL)


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

Good post Brian. Two gallons or so per person per day sounds about right to me as well. We have about 135 gallons in tanks and bring extra drinking water on board. The 4 of us have gone a month between refills, but we catch rainwater to keep the tanks full when we can. We all have a shower in fresh water at the end of the day as well as only use fresh for dish washing. Two things that really help us to conserve water are having only manual foot pumps for water and showering on deck with solar showers. Manual foot pumps help to meter the water you use and no one ever lets water run (pumping) while they brush their teeth or lather their hands. The solar shower works well for conserving water too. We each get our own solar bag to fill once a day (about a gallon each) and it has to do for the shower (no refills!).


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

> I like to pack my icebox with water, tea and beer the day before a trip, along with 30-40 lbs. of ice, so I have ice cold beverages at the ready. I usually have leftover water, beer, and tea at the conclusion of the trip.


If you freeze gallon jugs of water, they last longer than ice, stay cold even after they melt, and give a reserve in case you're out longer than expected.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

manatee said:


> If you freeze gallon jugs of water, they last longer than ice, stay cold even after they melt, and give a reserve in case you're out longer than expected.


That's a good idea. Do the jugs explode/crack when frozen?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I've always been impressed by manual foot pumps, I can't really see a need for pressure water for much besides showering, when and if you have the luxury of it. (And why tape the faucets shut when you can just pull the fuse on the pressure pump?)

Of course there are those newfangled IR water spigots now as well, if you take your hands away, the water stops and there's no way to keep it running.

Jim-
Plastic milk jugs are able to stretch enough not to split or crack, at least when new. DOn't know how many repeat cycles they can take. But that's also why you never FILL something you intend to freeze, you need to allow +10% for the water to expand as it freezes.

Or like they used to do in New England, you leave a filled glass bottle of something out on the windowsill in the winter, and in the middle of the night, BANG! it _will _explode.


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

> That's a good idea. Do the jugs explode/crack when frozen?


Never have. I use gallon milk/water jugs & 1- & 2-liter soda bottles. Underfill them by a cup or so to allow for the expansion of the ice. Just pull a 1-liter out & let it be thawing as you go along, sipping as it melts. A teaspoon or two of lime juice in with it is especially thirst-quenching. (Also good in green Gatorade.)


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

Several have mentioned the use of fresh water for flushing a toilet. I can't imagine the use of fresh water to move sewage when you're trying to conserve water. Also, many speak of showering. We never "shower" when we are conserving fresh water. After bathing in salt water, a cup of fresh water is carefully poured from our head down, - maybe a second cup for those with long hair. I like aeventyr60's & MarkofSeaLife's use of the spray bottle. Some assumed use of water just makes no sense at all,- why would you need to run water over your toothbrush before putting it in your wet mouth? Now I must admit, when we are picking up water every few days, we are showering freely and washing dishes when rinse water flowing down the drain, but 1.7 gallons/day/person is easy in conservation mode.


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

jimgo said:


> That's a good idea. Do the jugs explode/crack when frozen?


No, they shouldn't if you just leave some air at the top for expansion. I use PET bottles (Coke) and they work fine for ice. The best part is there is no melt water.


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

....and if you're feeling particularly puckish, some beer bottles are plastic....


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

CaptainForce said:


> .....why would you need to run water over your toothbrush before putting it in your wet mouth? ....


How did your mouth get wet? You drink a ton of water? 

Good point, but it would feel like prison to me for an inconsequential savings, unless I was on a serious passage.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Hygiene is pretty friken important. Espeacialy on a long passage. To be clean and comfortable is important for your psyche and that transponds deirectly to safety. You sleep better, and rather than sitting there on watch thinkng about the rash on your a$$ and ithcy arm pits, you should be sittng there comfy as can be, smelling like a new born baby. I use clean cotton rag soaked in hot water to give my self a complete whipe down, follwed by an alcohol whipe down, and the some baby powder fo the essentials. I go out and buy a few packages of cotton white t shirts and black cotton boxer breifs before each voyage. I change into fresh undergarments twice a day. I also bring a few packages of cotton tube socks and wear those blue west marine rubber boots religously. It leaves a funny tan line and my feet are pretty pale, but I never stub my toe, or get athleats foot and can walk around my deck with a sure footed confidence. I like to sail into my destination looking like I'm meeting friends for lunch at the country club, clean pressed shirt and shorts that I have put aside for the arrival, shaved fresh. It helps with clearing customs as well. My delivery partners usually look like they just spent a week at sea, all scrubby and grubby and salty. It doesn't take a lot of water or time time take care your self out there. I also have 2 sets of fowly's that I switch out so as not to have been sitting in the same pair for a week or more. And I carry 4 or 5 sets of clean bedding to switch out as needed, so I sleep clean an comfy. When i feel the need several times a day, I grab a bottle of water, take a sip, brush my teeth, rinse, spit and drink the rest or dump it on my head, or dump one of those Emergen-C powder pakages in the rest, shake and rehydrate with that. I sacrifice storage of non essentials to carry more of the essentials.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Capt.aaron said:


> Hygiene is pretty friken important. ......


John Bonds used to preach this in the Safety at Sea seminars, which he essentially invented. Hygiene and proper nourishment, which would include water. He considered it critical for morale, which translated to both safety and performance. Being a retired Navy Captain and head of Navy Sailing at Annapolis, Dean at the Navy War College and head of US Sailng, he knew a few things about morale and performance. He passed a few years back.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

Capt.aaron said:


> .................. And I carry 4 or 5 sets of clean bedding to switch out as needed, so I sleep clean an comfy. ...........
> 
> 
> > I like all of Capt.aaron's post comments, but this particular item about the bedding reminds me of an important behavior. I's very important to us not to go below with any saltwater wet items or salt from seawater on our skin. Once you introduce salts to your sheets, towels, cushions or any fabrics they will absorb moisture and remain clamy & uncomfortable until you are back in port and able to throughly wash them.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

O.k. Here are some pics from the day I loaded and sailed from Key West to Honduras. I pulled the boat up along side our dive boat for loading






. From the this vantage you can see several inches of water line showing






and from here as we sail out, you can see none






. Note that in side you see nothing. Every thing is stowed under or behind the seating, counter or V berth. Note my sink. I love that big elbow faucet. I can get my head under it or a big pot. It is fed by a foot pump. Having water automatically moved by electricity when a valve is opened has always seemed very land lubbery to me. Not to mention a complete waste of precious electricity. I have all that crap on the dive boat, and I'm constantly working on pressure pumps, the AC the gen set, the engine the electric this and that. I love the freedom of simplicity on my sail boat.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Have 200g in two tanks. One of the best things I did was putting a water filtration system just before the pressure pump. Takes 3 m cartridges and carry two extras. When near good water supply ( some marina water is questionable) fill and flush tanks. Part of hygiene is clean water.
With just 2 don't worry much about conservation. This winter putting in water maker. But due to work involved wont run it except if have spare electricity from wind generators on passage. Due to silt hard to run it coastal in many areas.
Flush with fresh. No stink and keeps plumbing nicer.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

I carry 122 Gallons in two tanks. 
Presently we don't conserve actively, we don't waste per se but we don't conserve. 

When we use the sun shower it's 2.3 gallon bag is sufficient for both of us to get clean. Keep in mind I 'grew' up in the navy so I know how to take a bird bath shower. 
We installed a filtration unit (home type) on the manual pump and get all drinking water from that, it makes you think about it I guess. Makes the filter last longer for sure. 

We aren't planning on any Looooong trips (over 5 days) - but I am interested in hearing about difficulties in getting refills of good clean reliable water in the Bahama's, BVI's and south america.


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

Here's a simple trick that works even if you have pressure water: when taking a shower and you need to adjust the temp, adjust by decreasing flow rather than increasing. So, if it's too hot, *decrease *the hot water instead of *increasing *the cold water, for example. You get a faster response, plus of course, use less water total.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> How did your mouth get wet? You drink a ton of water?


Living people have wet mouths,- Where've you been?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

CaptainForce said:


> Living people have wet mouths,- Where've you been?


Never heard of dry mouth? One gets it when they excessively conserve water.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

GeorgeB said:


> I am currently trying to figure out how to stuff a water maker into my 34 footer. Anyone got suggestions?


Build your own modular watermaker. That way you can place components in different small places in the boat where the space is of little value for anything else.

It's really not hard and there is no mystical magic to watermakers. It's a simple device that requires a feed of clean seawater pumped into a carbon filter by an ordinary marine pressure pump. Then into a high pressure pump (800psi) with a pressure control valve that manually regulates the pressure into the membrane tube.

OK, there are a few other small components involved but this is the nub of it. All these components can be remotely located and don't have to be in the same box. That way you can always find space in the tiniest parts of your boat.

If you want to know more PM me and I'll tell you.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

One of the deals we made (wife and I) is that when we go sailing we're not going camping. We have 1000 litres of water in three tanks. I will install a home-made water maker before we go long terms cruising and will also have a custom-made rain catcher. We'll not be short of water. That said, we don't waste water but we don't camp either.

We wash our clothes in fresh because it takes more water to rinse salt out than to wash the clothes in the first instance and salty clothing will give you rashes and dermatitis. We have showers in both heads operated with trigger nozzles so you wet yourself down, soap up and then rinse off - no free-running water.

We carry enough linen to have fresh bedding whenever required and we do laundromats when we get into ports. Washing bedding at sea is too hard and it's not about water consumption.

We have no salt water on the boat other than toilet flush. We use only fresh in the galley for cooking and washing dishes and plastic garbage.

We sailed with three on board from San Diego to Marquesas. When we got to Nuku Hiva, the water was poor quality (undrinkable) so we never loaded any. We stayed for 5 days then sailed to Bora Bora. There the good water was limited so we only loaded 200 litres. We stayed there for 5 days too. We sailed to Raratonga where the water was again poor quality. We managed to get some from a ship that was stranded in the harbour but only filled one tank.

We stayed for 4 days then sailed to New Zealand. We were at sea altogether essentially for two and a half months and when we reached NZ we still had adequate water supplies. With a watermaker and rain catcher, we will have more water than we need - maybe we'll even sell some 

If I have to cruise worrying about water to the point where I can't have a mouthful when I clean my teeth then I'll sell the boat and take up some other pass-time. That is not sailing - that's mental torture.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

The water we sail in is so nutrient poor and of such "high" quality, we consider it sacred. We swim and bath in it, it heals our wounds and cures our hang overs. I friken brush my teeth with it! To use fresh for anything but drinking and rinsing to us is a waste. I'll sail up to a dock with a hose after scrubbing down with salt water to rinse with fresh. I probably use 10 gallons of salt water to wash the food off of dishes and a gallon of fresh to rinse. We eat conch right out of the shell sometimes. The ocean is a life force for us.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Hosing down after a salt wash.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Of course we try and sail to places that have one of these






. My point being that we have a lot of fresh water to spare because we sail in salt water clean enough to use it for most every thing besides drinking, laundry and boiling rice and pasta and final hygiene rinses.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

Omatako said:


> ........................................
> 
> If I have to cruise worrying about water to the point where I can't have a mouthful when I clean my teeth then I'll sell the boat and take up some other pass-time. That is not sailing - that's mental torture.


I might have said something in an earlier post that now sounds absurd. I was against the thought of it being necessary to run water over a toothbrush before adding the toothpaste. Some had said earlier that people often turn on the tap, run water over the toothbrush and leave it running. I always use water when I brush my teeth. I just don't run the water before I brush my teeth. No one has said not to use water for tooth brushing.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

tdw said:


> BBQ .... I guess you have a watermaker ? How does that fit in with your water usage plan ?
> 
> Our girl has a 50 litre (aprox 12US gallons) per hour. On the hook we tend to run the donk for an hour a day anyway so at least theoretically we can cover all our water needs. We also have a collector for use with boom awning. Tanks hold about the same as BBQ's .... roughly 135US gallons.
> 
> ...


I have pulled the plumbing and electrical and put in the space for the watermaker... but did not want to get and install until we needed it. So far a good call. Have not had a use for it yet.

Many of the places we go, I would not make water or it is easily available. For those places we would make it, we often dont stay there over a week anyways.

If we go to spend significant time in the bahamas that will likely change because the WM becomes more useful and cost effective. RIght no though, it would be pickled and a maintenance issue.

Brian


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Lots of great replies in this thread. THanks Aaron, Capt Force, Jaye, and all others for a lot of great replies and thoughts. Hope this helps some folks.

Brian


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

CaptainForce said:


> I might have said something in an earlier post that now sounds absurd. I was against the thought of it being necessary to run water over a toothbrush before adding the toothpaste. Some had said earlier that people often turn on the tap, run water over the toothbrush and leave it running. I always use water when I brush my teeth. I just don't run the water before I brush my teeth. No one has said not to use water for tooth brushing.


Point taken - didn't mean to offend.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

Omatako said:


> Point taken - didn't mean to offend.


'never a thought of offense,- just a clarification,- Thanks


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

I have been told by several friends that the modular, after-market parts type set up is the way to go. I installed a Spectra Newport and that was a little difficult in a 44 footer. What are the thoughts on electrical or mechanical high pressure pumps? I may have real estate in the engine compartment for a belt driven pump but it could make checking the oil difficult. Also, I am running a 120A alternator on a single belt. Would I need to go with a two belt serpentine type arrangement or could I run two separate single belts? I have also been told to go to the largest capacity possible as this will cut down the operation times – is there any real benefit? Regarding the intake through hull – can I “T” it off an existing one (like the galley salt water intake) or does it need to be dedicated (syphon valve needed?). My available real estate is all in the stern but I am worried about the excess weight there but it is close to the aft water tank. Does anyone run a transfer pump between fresh water tanks? (my plan would be to keep the bow tank full).


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

George B- been going through the same exercise myself. Interestingly, friends suggest going with the Pur 80 or 40e. Katadyn version seems improvement, very common, and old enough the bugs have been worked out. We are just 2. Suspect when we turn the watermaker on it will run daily for awhile ( a few weeks) or it will be pickled. For us using a d.c system seems to make sense as we have solar/wind but hate generators. Galleons per amp seem to be about the same for all systems from what I've read from several sources. Issue I'm struggling with is whether having a day tank for made water is really necessary? Do you really need to hold made water in a separate tank and test it before dumping it into your regular water tank(s)? Is dumping the first few galleons into a small container and testing that sufficient? Would appreciate opinions. Have two 100g tanks.Thanks.


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## opc11 (Jun 8, 2011)

great discussion! very interested to follow the self-made water maker discussion.

thanks to all.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Great thread, Brian. Here's our water usage.

We have 1,000 liters, or 268 gallons, not counting the 12 gallons in the water heater. Onboard we have a family of 6, a dog, and a beta fish. ("Flo" doesn't actually use much water, she just sits there in her bowl, which fits nicely in the sink when we go sailing.) Our water lasts 3 weeks with most showering done on shore. We do drink from a refilled plastic water bottle brought from shore, and generally spend most of our day on shore, where much of our water drinking takes place.

The area where we like to anchor is on a lake, at the farthest end from the entrance to the lake. So there isn't much water turnover from the tide, and there are recent, tested-as-marginal issues with cesspool run-off at that end of the lake, especially after rainstorms. It's not closed for swimming, but it's been a hot topic in the papers.

So when we step onto the boat from the dinghy, everyone quickly rinses their lower legs and feet with the transom shower. And we rinse the dog's 4 legs and paws, cupping water around his paws to get all the salt and sand off. The fresh water rinse keeps our feet/skin happier and there is a LOT less sand on the boat. Also, the dog's fur stays clean and it doesn't feel disgusting when he rubs by your feet/legs. (He likes to hang-out under the salon table. And he is otherwise underfoot.)

We wash dishes with fresh water. Everyone knows to not let the water run, but twice this summer we heard the pump running, which lately means the transom shower is off at the shower head, but not at the knob. Like Smacky drinking all my tequila, it dribbles a little bit in that mode.

Last year we didn't do as much foot-washing, but we took more showers on board. It seems to be equalling out.

This works out to 2 gallons a day, if you count the dog as half a person.

--

We have 4 tanks, (located just like the quadrants on a graph):
1) 166 liters (forward starboard)
2) 166 liters (forward port)
3) 166 liters (amidships port)
4) 500 liters (amidships starboard)

We use them in the order 1, 2, 4, 3. This is reduce forward weight early, and then to save a small tank for the same reason Brian mentioned. When we have 166 liters left, we know to start thinking about getting more. (And half-full tanks have a lot of "free surface" which decreases stability.)

I can tell by the list of the boat when tank 4 is getting empty, and sometimes some of the other tanks too.

--

We have four heads, each with a combination sink/shower head, but one head is used like a closet, so three are in use. We have the galley sink and the transom shower. We have a crew's quarters sink but it is never used, and when storing sails, etc., I make sure nothing is catching on that sink's faucet. So there are really 5 places that water could be running. We leave the pump breaker off when we go ashore, unless I'm certain that fresh water isn't leaking out anywhere. It's nice to have the water pressure ready-to-go when we step back onto the boat and want to rinse our feet.

--

We use powered milk, using water from a shore-refilled water jug. But now that we have the kinks worked out of our electric fridge and freezer, and since we now have ample solar power, we just started buying fresh milk. That's probably not worth mentioning, but it sure is nice.

Last summer we had a water filter on the faucet, and would freely drink the boat's water. This summer is more about the jug or two brought from shore. (I didn't put a filter on this summer.) In the spring we do an 8 hour Clorox shock, immediatly followed by (partially and fully) refilling and (thoroughly) draining each tank several times. 

At the beginning of the summer we stock-up on 2-liter bottles of ginger ale and other sodas. I want my young crew to be familiar with the taste of ginger ale, in case they start feeling queazy.

We sometimes have an emergency gallon next to the starting battery down in the bilge. Since we are very coastal, we never seem to be more than 2 hours from a harbor. Once we start going offshore, I plan to significantly increase the jug storage.

--

As for collecting rainwater, we have strings of monofilament installed 6 inches above the spreaders, which stopped the birds from pooping on the deck. But I'm still not ready to start collecting rainwater. The anchor comes up a bit muddy and I don't invest the time with a bucket or the saltwater washdown hose to keep the deck clean enough.

Reading this thread has helped me realize that our stack-pack is designed with material that holds water. When it rains, it even fills with water. I haven't drank the water run-off from it yet mainly because I find bird eggs in there every spring. We ought to clean it before trusting the water, but it's not a high priority as there is water available nearby.

A true cruiser would probably eat the eggs.

--

We buy our diesel from the same place we refill our water. I try to buy $100 or more at a time, and once bought $350 worth. He is reasonably priced and I want to make sure we are welcome to come by and refill the water tanks. We usually refill the water at night when he's closed and the fuel dock is not being used. (He knows we do this at night.) We do this so we aren't preventing him from selling $5,000 of gas to the next fishing boat that comes along. It takes about 30 minutes for "us" to refill the 4 water tanks, and he has nearby competition. The fishing boats could easily go somewhere else.

"Us" usually means me, with wet clothes from trying to get the fastest flow that still lets gravity hold the hose in place, instead of the hose acting like a water-propelled rocket.

When we do refill our water tanks when he's open -- always buying diesel when he's open -- the crew knows that we are there to fill the water tanks quickly. I let each kid buy ice cream or a candy bar or something to add to the bill and help us be a valued customer. (It's treat, and the kids usually come back with ice cream for me too, which is most appreciated.)

I believe it also helps to tip the dock boy well, and they take our garbage in the process.

Regards,
Brad


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Bene505 said:


> .........to get the fastest flow that still lets gravity hold the hose in place, instead of the hose acting like a water-propelled rocket......


Great post, Brad. This comment made me thnk to mention that I bought a cheap plastic shutoff that screws onto the male end of the hose. Therefore, the water can be fully turned on/off, while up on deck. Worth throwing one in the cockpit table for when filling from transient docks.

Example:

Amazon.com: Dramm 12365 Garden Hose Plastic Shut-Off Valve: Patio, Lawn & [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@31ItTRhGRmL


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

outbound said:


> Do you really need to hold made water in a separate tank and test it before dumping it into your regular water tank(s)? Is dumping the first few galleons into a small container and testing that sufficient? Would appreciate opinions. Have two 100g tanks.Thanks.


What I am going to fit to mine (have seen it on several other boats) is a by-pass from the membrane-to-tank line that comes to a tap in the galley. The WM runs for a short while and a sample is taken, tested for TDS and when they are at an acceptable level the by-pass is returned to the main tank. Water quality is very unlikely to change when the WM is running.

FYI this is the basic schematic of a WM that can be installed in modular form:


Essentially a low pressure pump draws water from the sea through a strainer (this could be your normal domestic water supply pump), delivers it through a carbon filter to a HP pump. The HP pump circulates the water freely through the membrane tube with nothing going through the membrane (no fresh water is made) and the sea water returns to the sea.

When the pressure regulator valve is partially closed the pressure builds, the gauge allows you to regulate to 800psi and the water starts permeating the membrane. If the pressure gets too high, the blow-off valve vents the excess.

On the other end of the membrane tube is a flow of fresh water to the tank/test valve. With the valve turned to test sampling can be done. When the sample is good the valve is switched and the water goes to the tank. The brine that by-passes the membrane goes back to the sea. It will probably be necessary to put another blow-off valve in the fresh water line because if the tap in the galley is closed and the valve is switched to "Test", the pressure in that line will build to system pressure (800psi) which would not be good.

Like I've said, this is not magic, just common sense.

Hope this is helpful


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