# CS27 vs C&C27



## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

So I might be having a slight bit of 3-footitis, any opinions on the above two boats? Both seem to be of a similar quality, both sail well (from what I've heard).


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Tough call.....

The CS 27 is well known for construction quality, and sails well, esp upwind. 

The C&C 27 might be considered the 'prettier' boat, it's hard to beat the classic C&C sheerline, and personally I prefer C&C's hull deck joint treatment. 

I think you'll find that cockpit-wise they are similar, the C&C may have a marginal edge in interior space and wider side decks for moving forward. Both have aluminum framed ports (C&C in earlier editions) that can be prone to leakage, but so can the bonded lenses on later C&Cs. IMO the newer bonded, tinted ports update the look of the C&C substantially.

The CS seems marginally powered if you have the original horizontal Yanmar, a friend has trouble powering much more than 4-4.5 knots, but there could be other issues at play there. Many C&Cs have A4s, which I don't believe CS ever did (but could be wrong about that) so that's another comparison point.

Don't think you could go wrong with a good example of either...


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Faster said:


> Tough call.....
> 
> The CS 27 is well known for construction quality, and sails well, esp upwind.
> 
> ...


I agree very similar boats. C&C will be a smidgen faster not enough to matter and actually its strength is abilty and speed to windward, very tight close hauled angle as is C&Cs characteristic even on the larger models. You cant go wrong with either boat.

I would say go three feet more and get the C&C30...now thats a neat boat. 
Great performer, comforatable for cruising or weekending good looker.Can be had for a good price usually


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

I would love a 30, but that's 10k more at a minimum. There's a CS27 locally to me for under $10k, and a couple of C&C27s for a similar amount across the strait. That just puts them into "affordable" territory.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

SNer mitiempo is near you, Paul, and lives aboard a CS27... hopefully he'll chime in for you, or have you met/talked to him already?


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

PaulinVictoria said:


> I would love a 30, but that's 10k more at a minimum. There's a CS27 locally to me for under $10k, and a couple of C&C27s for a similar amount across the strait. That just puts them into "affordable" territory.


You cant go wrong with either of them. Go for the one in best condition.


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## sony2000 (Jan 30, 2013)

The deck core of the C&C27 is a significant weak point. Yet the 8hp diesel of CS27 is lacking speed and power, especially on the ocean. Take the C&C with the rebuilt or dry deck core only.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

The CS is a bit bigger boat - 1/2 ton more Disp, 1/2 a foot more beam & a foot more W/L.

Both are good old boats but I find the CS boats seem to hold up a smidge better over time.

There are a couple of donated C&C 27's at Harbour Yachts - or are those the ones you referred to?


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## rugosa (Aug 30, 2011)

CS only offered Yanmar diesels in this model, different Yanmars over the production run. Side decks are narrow but design allowed for walking on cabin side under sail. Check the head door - it's a love/hate thing. When you stand in the passageway between main & forward cabin, turn to face the door on port, slip both barrel bolts then turn aft and the door will block off main cabin. Head sink slides in/out.

They are both simply built nuts n bolts boats. CS always offered welded bow and stern rails rather than the socket and tee units on earlier C & C's. Gibb winches on earlier CS (later Lewmar) vs Barient. CS had a cheap painted steel fuel tank strapped underneath the cockpit. The last year we built them a few were built with Beckson opening ports.

You have/had a C & C 24? You'll see the similarities in the 27's. Both good choices, subject to viewing, survey, owner maintenance and updates.

Happy Sailing!


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## doogymon (Apr 6, 2008)

Seems like the folks sailing C&C 27's are having a ball. The boat appears to have just the right mix to be able to race in light winds and cruise in heavier stuff. The C&C Association BBS is alive and kicking making for a bit of fun cult following. Not sure if the CS27 & C&C30 have the same chemistry. I'm close to buying a C&C 27 myself with the added possibility that if I have to trailer the old girl myself for storage, it is doable. Has the YSM12 which I think is gem. 

Best Regards


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Well I went to take a look at the CS27 up the road from me. All was going well until we got to the bulkheads, the port chainplate is leaking and that bulkhead is starting to rot, and the bulkhead between the v-berth and the hanging locker on the starboard side was shot. The rest of the boat was OK, plenty of cosmetics needed, new cushions, running rigging etc but otherwise fairly decent. It looked like a boat forgotten by its owner for a couple of years, and unfortunately those couple of years don't look like they've been kind to it. Shame as otherwise it seemed a nicely laid out boat.

Any thoughts on this? 27ft Paceship sailboat


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

> There are a couple of donated C&C 27's at Harbour Yachts - or are those the ones you referred to?


Yeah, do you know anything about them Jon?


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

PaulinVictoria said:


> Yeah, do you know anything about them Jon?


Not really. I see them when I drop by Race Rock. Nothing nasty jumps out at me but they need a lot of cosmetic love. They are donations and have been sitting there for quite a while so I imagine you could try a pretty low offer. Ray has a Grampian 30 for the same price range as well - also a donation. I'll take a look at them when I'm down there next - probably tomorrow,


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

That's be great Jon, thanks. I see they also have a yellow C&C30 just listed, any chance of a quick peek at that if you have a minute? Cosmetic stuff I can handle, not scared to get busy scrubbing and buffing, even new cushions etc aren't too much to worry about.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Paul, I stopped by and had a look at them today. Harbour Yachts was closed so I couldn't get below on any of them - you'll have to go by the listings for that.

Of the two 27's I'd say Mr. Duck is the better one. Trincomali is noticeably scruffier - I'm not at all sure the gelcoat could be buffed back to a shine - that pale blue gelcoat C&C used back then never seemed very durable. Mr. Duck I think could be - it still shows some shine. As for deck equipment they are pretty similar. Mr. Duck has a better looking dodger with window covers. Their bottoms are about the same - need a good sanding & new paint but otherwise look fine. Mr. Duck has a better looking prop. Trincomali has a new looking, lifting outboard bracket. They both have jib furling. 

The Grampian is by far the scruffiest of them. I think it would have to be painted - it's showing a lot of print through due to the gelcoat being thin I think. Of the 4 boats I'd place it last but it's also the biggest and has a big diesel so.... It does have a small rig - 126' less than the C&C 30 which is a big deal around here, as you know.

The C&C 30 looks in pretty good shape. Apparently it has been docked portside to for much of its life  It has a winch farm on deck A La early IOR. No furling, just hanks and it has an Atomic Bomb, if you're one who worries about gas engines. No dodger on it either. It's the only one in the water so I couldn't check its bottom. The ports will all need redoing - the lens gaskets are all pulling out of the frames. Actually, ALL of them will need their ports redone if you care about seeing out.  The 30 has a nice alloy front hatch where the 27's have fiberglass ones.

Considering they're all basically the same price - $10 - $12K asking, I think the C&C 30 has it, hands down. Unless there is something ugly inside like a dead or dying engine etc. it's the one I'd go for (even though it's yellow) - it's a lot more boat than the 27's and a lot nicer and better looking than the Grampian. Dodgers & furling are expensive though if you have a strong need for them - easily $5K unless you can find something used.

They're definitely worth a trip over to check out to see which one suits you - they all look like pretty solid boats from the outside and the C&C's all appear to have been loved most of their lives.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

"Trincomali' used to belong to Steve Tupper, former head of BC Sailing...


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Great, thanks Jon, most appreciated. Dodger is a nice to have, same for furling (although given I sail single handed a lot of the time now, perhaps furling is getting a little further up the list). Yellow doesn't bother me, I'm a fan of coloured boats 
I've also seen a red C&C30 up island, waiting to see if the dealer gets back to me with any more info on it regarding price flexibility - that one has furling, self tailing winches etc.
Of course if the missus never gets comfortable on a sailboat then I might as well keep my 24' as that's plenty big enough for just me


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

I'm going to have a quick look tomorrow, I'm over on the mainland for some meetings so will scoot out to west van. As long as the boat is basically sound then I can always add things as I go along, at least that way I know exactly what they are and how old they are. Also helps that I can get a bunch of stuff at cost, including a new engine if necessary.


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## sony2000 (Jan 30, 2013)

The Paceship PY26 has a good reputation. Mine is a P29. But the one you are looking at is a little jewel, and may be priced well above the average market value. I find the C&C30to be a large boat. Possibly too large if the wife never gets comfortable sailing.


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