# Mirage 24 build quality?



## blueranger (Jun 30, 2006)

Hi,

Does anybody out there have any experience with the quality of the deck and hull on the Mirage 24? I love the design and am considering buying one for daysailing on Lake Superior. If anyone has experience with these boats I'd love to hear about it. I won't be racing, just looking for a reasonably fast, sturdy cruiser that won't break in two or lose the mast if I get caught in a blow.

Thanks,
Mike


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## ahab211 (Jan 6, 2008)

*Mirage 24*

I've raced on two of them and currently own a 24 [email protected](similiar boat). I haven't heard anything bad about the design or structure. It is a more stripped version of my [email protected] from what I gather. Mine has a six inch surface crack on the mid port side from a previous owner and the hull is so strong it doesn't pose a problem. They have good resale and are versatile. Don't think you'll be disappointed. They are very popular in the Lake Erie to Lake St. Claire area we sail in.


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## blueranger (Jun 30, 2006)

*Good to know...*

Thanks for the help Ahab. I'm pretty excited about looking at this one.

Mike


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Can't go too wrong on a Robert Perry design, Canadian built Mirage 24.
Have it surveyed before you put your money into a purchase agreement.
Are you buying from a dealer or a private individual?

Good Luck...

sanjuan2R
Astoria
C&C 27
sv/ Doodles


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

I had a Mirage 5.5, and thought it was a well built, sturdy boat. Sailed quite well also.


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## Johnrb (Sep 21, 2002)

sanjuan2R said:


> Can't go too wrong on a Robert Perry design, Canadian built Mirage 24.
> Have it surveyed before you put your money into a purchase agreement.
> Are you buying from a dealer or a private individual?
> 
> ...


The Mirage 24 was designed by C&C and built by Mirage (it was their first boat). Mirage 24 - Used Sailboat Market in Canada

Everything I've heard about Mirage with respect to quality has been positive. Then again, maintenance is key to a thirty plus year old boat.

Good luck, they are a nice looking boat.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

is this the same as the mirage 236?


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## toastchee (Mar 8, 2006)

I had a 236 that had excellent build quality. Nice boat!


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## blueranger (Jun 30, 2006)

Well, I hope the build quality is there, we bought her! Back on the water where I belong!!!!!!!!

I didn't pay enough for the boat to justify a surveyor. Well kept but 30 years old. No oilcanning or blisters on the hull. No soft spots on the deck. Zero corrosion on the standing rigging which I'm pretty sure has been replaced at some point. Unlike the running rigging which is going to need a total refit. 

It has actual bulkheads (if you've ever seen the inside of a Ranger 22 you'll know why that excites me), and a real head that an emaciated 4 year old could probably squeeze into in an emergency. Keel bolts had no corrosion and no water in the bilge. Adjustable running back stay and boom vang, good harken blocks, snatch blocks for the toe rail and fore sail and 4 winches, 2 single speeds and 2 two speeds. Only electronics it came with was a vhf radio.

It's dirty and needs new windows (ports? Not sure of the jargon) and a stern rail (what am I supposed to lean back on to work on my tan?) but I'm in love and the co-captain loves it as well, the main selling point being that the cockpit benches are long enough for her to stretch out on. 

I'll post pictures once I get it cleaned up. I appreciate the comments, there's not a lot of info on the Mirage 24s out there on the net but what I found was positive.

3 weekends and she's in the water!

Fair winds,
Mike


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Congratulations on the new to you boat.  Look forward to seeing photos.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Congratulations on your new boat. It's a bit of a moot point now, but Mirage was known for producing above-average fibreglass quality. If your boat has been maintained well, I am sure that you're going to be happy with her. Enjoy !


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## Johnrb (Sep 21, 2002)

Mike:

"_Well, I hope the build quality is there, we bought her! Back on the water where I belong!!!!!!!!_"

I was kidding - build quality is hopeless 

Seriously now , as Sailormann and I wrote previously, Mirage has a good reputation. The 24 is pretty common on the Canadian side of the Great Lakes and from what I've seen, they hold up quite nicely. They are unmistakingly a C&C design and I mean this as a compliment. Let's see the photos when you get her cleaned up.


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## Fonkamex (Nov 1, 2008)

Hi Blueranger,

I live in Montreal and I have been looking for a weekender and fast sailboat for Lac Saint-Louis. This boat will be my first big sailboat. 

Someone is selling a Mirage 24' at $4500. He repainted the entire hull and did the antiifouling recently, motor and sails seems to be OK too. 

I know you bought a similar boat quite recently. Could you give to me your point of view about this boat and her mean fortress and weaknees. 

Any help you may be able to provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,


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## smp (Jul 29, 2010)

I know this is an old thread I'm reviving but maybe this info will continue to be useful to other googlers looking at buying one of these boats in the future. I purchased a 1974 24' Mirage last year and I love it. I have spent zero dollars on it since purchase! This spring we will be painting the topside and a coat of antifoul on the hull. I love the boat and I would recommend it to other first time boat owners. Ours is not without it's flaws, but for the money we paid for it, it's a gem. We have a furling head sail and a 9.9 horse Honda outboard. The only thing that needs immediate attention is the main sail, it's pretty worn out. This spring will be the first time attempting to raise the mast so I'll be learning a lot this year.
Cheers


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## Al6lo6co6 (Mar 31, 2011)

I just joined this forum, mainly because I purchased a Mirage 24 yr1974 last week. From what I have read I am very pleased with my purchase price as it was <1900 US. All it needs is bottom paint and new lines and its ready to sail. However I need to sail it 144km across the long island sound from CT where its dry docked. My question is: What is the best cruising wind speed? and What is the average daily distance this boat can cover? Also I need to purchase an engine for it, what is a good recommended power?


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## Al6lo6co6 (Mar 31, 2011)

Also, as for the electrical system I have not tested it (battery was dead) but it looked in good shape. Although planning on problems, I was looking but unable to find any diagrams on the net... does anyone know where I can find them or if its not a big deal?


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## thehardaground (Jan 19, 2011)

electrical system is not a big deal. when I bought mine way back in the day one of the first winter projects was yank the bad stuff out and rewire. I think it was a two night after work job. Motor wise I had a 7.5 Johnson originally, that unfortunately gave up the ghost and I replaced with a 4 stroke Honda 5. Much quieter, and almost as much power. Hull speed should be in the 5.75 kts range. Personal top speed on a particularly windy afternoon surfing off a somewhat large wave was slightly over 13. Really wasn't that much fun. Enjoy the boat. They're great.


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## cdhickey (Aug 3, 2010)

I thought I'd join on in this thread as well. Last summer I bought a Northern 1/4 ton, which is basically a rebadged Mirage 24. It's a wonderful little boat and I can't wait to get it back in the water for my first full season. I'm glad to see there are a few other owners on here.


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## Bamazeb (Sep 13, 2011)

*'74 Mirage 24 Hull Number??*

Grew up with a '76 O'Day 22. Just purchased a '74 Mirage 24. Enjoying sailing on the St. Johns River in Fl. Can anyone tell me how to find the Hull Number from the Boat I.D. Number. Also, any photos of rigging would be helpful. The person I bought it from sailed single handed to the Bahamas. She had it set up nicely for solo sailing. However the rigging needs replacement.


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## smp (Jul 29, 2010)

There's a guy on the yahoo mirage 24 group that has sailed his from Hamilton Ontario to the Bahamas!


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## Arpegecap (Sep 19, 2011)

I am also in Montreal on Lake St Louis out of the Royal St-Lawrence Yacht Club. Lots of Mirage boats there. Mirage was built locally. 

I know the original builder who is also a RSL club member. He is a champion sailor, and his boats reflect his need for speed.

Mirage boats were and are solid. No fancy hand layup, just lots of glass applied by chopper gun. 30 years later they are still rock solid with none of the problems associated with cored hulls and decks. A bit heavy compared to a C and C (Mirage Builder/owner was the C&C dealer for years) but they are far from slugs under sail. Their current prices are pretty much what they cost back in 1976 which says something! Soft deck and hull? No. Osmosis, no. I owned a Mirage 33 and had no issues with it, in spite of its age. 

Best,

Bob


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## smp (Jul 29, 2010)

Bob, are you saying they don't have a cored deck?


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## Arpegecap (Sep 19, 2011)

Hmm, not sure but I will find out and report.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

No fancy hand layup, just lots of glass applied by chopper gun.

Bob[/QUOTE]

I doubt this was done as it is the worst way to build a boat.


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## Arpegecap (Sep 19, 2011)

I checked and was told that Mirage did not use cores either in the hull nor the deck. So, while Mirage yachts did suffer from osmosis, like all boats of that era, contaminated cores were not a problem. I owned a Mirage 33 for some years and it was rock solid and a good sailing boat with a nice turn of speed. 

Best,

Bob


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## Arpegecap (Sep 19, 2011)

mitiempo said:


> No fancy hand layup, just lots of glass applied by chopper gun.
> 
> Bob


I doubt this was done as it is the worst way to build a boat.[/QUOTE]

Brian, the owner of MIrage Yachts told me himself that he did not use hand-layup because doing it properly was a hit and miss affair. Training people to avoid voids was iffy whereas teaching someone to use a gun was simple and the end result was solid. Heavier, yes but very solid.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Hand layup has strength because the glass fibers are long and overlap with each layer, adding great strength. Chopper gun uses very short pieces of glass with a great deal less strength. It would have to be much thicker to approach the strength of a hand layed up hull, which is not in any way an exotic way to construct a boat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiberglass_spray_lay-up_process
Scroll down to limitations.

I have never seen a boat of any size built totally with a chopper gun and would certainly not want one.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Arpegecap said:


> Brian, the owner of MIrage Yachts told me himself that he did not use hand-layup because doing it properly was a hit and miss affair. Training people to avoid voids was iffy whereas teaching someone to use a gun was simple and the end result was solid. Heavier, yes but very solid.


I believe Bob Perry designed for Mirage - perhaps he can weigh in on this. I find it very surprising that the bigger Mirages were choppered - their quality seems much higher than that. The C&C designed ones I've seen appear the equal of comparable C&C built boats of that era.

From my own experience, avoiding voids in hand layup is not difficult - if the wetted and rolled glass looks at all white you've got a void and need to roll it more.

A chopper gun, on the other hand, requires the operator to control the glass feed and resin feed separately and continuously - it's not like a spray gun shooting paint. It takes considerable skill to get it right. A skilled chopper operator can be a very efficient way of putting down the alternate layers of mat in a hand layup rather than using the combined mat/roving material (used to be called FabMat) which, in the heavier weights can be difficult to wet out properly.

Chopper guns have a bad rap - they can be a very useful tool when properly used - like any other tool. There is no reason for such items as cockpit locker seats or hatch shrouds or glass dorade boxes etc. to be hand laid fabric. That just makes them slow, tedious and expensive to lay up. Things like that are a perfect place for a chopper gun to increase efficiency with no downside.


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## smp (Jul 29, 2010)

I've been wondering about the deck since buying the boat. Below is a picture from under the deck looking up from the "quarter berth" next to the companionway. A previous owner has clearly been in there. I couldn't see any core and was wondering if it was simply removed ... what is between the two layers of glass at the hull/deck joint is some kind of caulking. If anyone can explain what's going on here I'de appreciate it. I'm not sure what the three bolts in the top middle of the picture are doing, think they're holding the genoa track but I can't remember for sure. Boat sails awesome and the deck is stiff all the way around, no softness or give anywhere.










click here for big


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

It looks like part of the liner was cut away for some reason. The stanchion bolts adjacent to the hull/deck joint are not done up all the way - at least on 2 of them. The three overlong bolts could be for the genoa track.


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## smp (Jul 29, 2010)

I figure that much, what I can't figure is whether there used to be laminate there or not. Now that I think of it, I guess not, as it wouldn't be part of the hull/deck joint. So I guess that's it then, no core in the deck at all.
Those bolts that are not done up all the way are seized, I couldn't turn them when I tried. I'll be rebedding a lot of this stuff and doing a neater job of it.


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## thehardaground (Jan 19, 2011)

If I remember from my 24 there wasn't any balsa coring anywhere. There wa sply glassed in on the tops of the comings and where the winches mounted beside the companionway.
If you are going to rebed your stantion bases turn them 180 degrees, it will make your stantions angle outwards a bit and give a bigger feel on the deck.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

From the pic it appears there is some sort of coring in the deck (missing where light can be seen through the laminate) so it's not completely uniform.. unless something was sitting on deck blocking the light..

Interesting, someone's really butchered that liner.. wonder why - just to get at the stanchion base??


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## smp (Jul 29, 2010)

Faster said:


> From the pic it appears there is some sort of coring in the deck (missing where light can be seen through the laminate) so it's not completely uniform.. unless something was sitting on deck blocking the light..
> 
> Interesting, someone's really butchered that liner.. wonder why - just to get at the stanchion base??


Yeah 
That's not the only spot either. 
There is a steel (?) backing plate that seems to have been installed after the fact and there is steel base plates (half round) up top, hence the light only penetrating at certain points.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Of course the deck is cored. In order to get the stiffness you need in a deck at a reasonable weight it has to be cored.

I don't recall the Mirage boats being chopper gun boats. We certainly would not have spec'd a chopper gun laminate. But Dick Steffen had built a lot of boats and tended to have his own way of doing things so I could be wrong. Chopper gun boats are fine if the operator of the gun was a skilled worker. It was all about maintaining a controlled thickness. They did tend to be a heavier boat as they relied more on thickness for strength than a hand laid up boat. In think all the Columbia boats were chopperred.


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## smp (Jul 29, 2010)

Thanks for the input Bob. What do you make of the picture I posted? Core removed hack job? The deck is stiff in this area and the other areas that this has been done. Also do you know if the core would go right to the edge, ie; would the toerail bolts penetrate core?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Core usually stops an inch or so short of the deck edge so the hull/deck join is solid glass to solid glass.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

bobperry said:


> In think all the Columbia boats were chopperred.


Nope. My 43 is woven roving on the inside, where the weave shows. From the size of the weave it looks like about 20 Oz. - larger rovings than 18 but smaller than 24 which are the two I'm familiar with. I'd imagine they used a chopper for the interlayer mat and the liner parts could be choppered as well but not the hull & deck.


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