# An open letter to non cruisers..



## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

Found this an interesting response to non cruisers..

“As cruisers, especially youngish ones, the commonly heard question is always some variation of:

Aren't you worried about (pirates, storms, healthcare, fallback plans, etc)?

My answer is yes, of course. I am on this forum and others a well documented coward. As the de facto captain of a boat with a first mate who is quite content to nod politely and let me make all the decisions, I am intimately aware and well versed in everything that can go wrong. I worry about every passage. Every anchor bite. Every system on the boat, every cloud on the horizon. I worry about old age and having no assets beyond what fits on a 44ft sailboat. I worry about having no connection to a single location. I worry about 6 armed men in a skiff off the coast of some poorer unstable country. I worry about money. 

So... why? 

Why go? Because security is an illusion. There is none. Sure, we can and do do everything we can to tilt each roll of the dice in our favor, but ultimately luck and happenstance will determine all our fates. I can prepare for and plan for as many eventualities as possible and hope the shifted odds work out in my favor, but in the end, luck will decide.

It is the same on land in more traditional lifestyles as it is at sea, it's just different, and different is inherently scary to the human brain. I could have kept the house and decent job, kept adding to the 401k, and with a bit of luck and hard work, got a little house by a beach somewhere to retire to and live out the days until there were no more. 

But nothing is promised. I could have done that, got sick at 45, died at 47. Could have lived to 90 in comfort and surrounded by family and friends. But who knows. Visions of the future are just that, visions. So I decided the future will handle itself. Now matters. And right now, I want to see as much of this small floating blue marble and meet as diverse a group of people as we can before it ends. Maybe it's today. Maybe it's in 40 years, either way makes no difference at all as I won't be around to lament either case. But I'm here now. 

All the trappings of traditional life, houses and cars and jobs and savings accounts and investments and friends and family and pets and cable tv and x and y and z are all just things to occupy our time and minds beyond that fact that our time is so ******* short and no one knows what time it is. 

So if you want to go, go. If you don't don't. The rest is nothing but smoke and lights and an effort to exercise control over things of which we have none.”


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Some have a strong urge to go someplace... go on their own wits in their own ship... Surely it's safer today and more possible than it ever was.

When it's all over... you regret what you wanted to do but didn't. No?


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I mostly only worry about stuff I can't control. And then I realize that's kind of insane.

But far as these "Aren't you worried about (pirates, storms, healthcare, fallback plans, etc)?"

I can't control those, but I can take actions to GREATLY reduce the dangers from them. Probably much better than I can reduce the dangers of driving to work!


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Nice note AA. Security and certainty are interesting concepts. In our rich western societies most of us grow up with a significant ability to control our world. We are trained to think that we are the masters.

Eventually most people learn that security is an illusion, and nothing is certain (except death and taxes ).

I left the land house must be four years ago now. Since then I've (we've) wondered some distance, both on water and on land.

Some of my friends left behind comment that "I wish I could do what you're doing. You're so lucky!" My loving and gentle response is always: "You could be doing what we're doing. It's up to you."

I've come to understand the reason these friends aren't doing what they say they wish they could is due to fear of insecurity, and the lack of certainty in this life. Mostly the insecurity revolves around money, not physical question of pirates or storms.

Almost all my friends have greater financial wealth than I ever will. As I often tell them, only half-jokingly:_ "If I had your money, I'd throw mine away."_ Yet few venture far off the defined path - the one laid out for us all by our societies.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

I had a good career that ended due to changes in the industry and a corporate takeover at 55. I could claim I had no control, but...
* I had money in the 401-K
* The house has been paid off for 20 years
* I had cultivated a part-time back-up career that I love

There is also that old saw that "luck favors the prepared," and so I sail more than I ever did.

Yup, I could drop over tomorrow. But all of my grandparents lived 85-92 and my parents are going strong at 90-95, still driving and still working at stuff they like. 

I have friends from high school that "followed their dreams," sailing and living somewhat bohemian. They are to a one, frustrated by lack of funds to do, pretty much, anything. They will be working until the end. It's hard talking to them.

The rat race and the system of "always wanting more" that goes with it is deeply flawed, but we do need to earn our keep, and a big cushion is better for most people. It's relaxing. The trick is to avoid buying too deeply into the "wanting more" part. I was also lucky (or smart) in choosing a career I really liked. Work was good. I still consult some, because I like it. Some days it's emotionally quite rewarding, even better than sailing. For me, both are about accomplishing something.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I certainly don't feel like I can tell anyone else what they should do, and having always done this, I doubt I could be much help to someone changing from life ashore to one on the water.
I've always been lucky. I fell into boating as a commercial fisherman, which afforded me almost unlimited funds for a high schooler. Then I tripped (literally) and fell in with some SF rock bands in the mid-sixties, which afforded me the financial freedom to circumnavigate under sail in my early 20's (a dream since I read Slocum's book @ maybe 7). 
After that, all these folks kept asking me to sail their boats and my avocation became my profession. And they gave me money to do it! 
So, here I sit, with a comfortable annuity, still doing pretty much what I've always done as an adult. I know it's a tough job, but somebody's got to do it.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

aa3jy said:


> Found this an interesting response to non cruisers..
> 
> "As cruisers, especially youngish ones, the commonly heard question is always some variation of:
> 
> ...


OMG, I have these kinds of conversations all the time, and some, more rudimentary than this. I have grown up my whole life in the Midwest. What people here in the Midwest know about boating is a bass fishing boat, a Jon Boat for catfishing on the rivers, and maybe ski boats on some of our inland lakes.

Most people in the midwest know somebody who has retired, bought a RV, and traveled the country visiting their grandchildren and all of the national parks. But, when I discuss my sailboat cruising plans, I get questions like: "But where do you go to the bathroom?"; "Can you cook meals on one of those?"; "What about showers?ĺ; "Is there a comfortable place to sleep?";

I always ask them if they know anybody who travels in an RV and they will say, "Oh yeah, I have an aunt and uncle who travel all over the country in an RV. It's really cool! They have a little kitchen area, they have a bathroom and a shower. They have pretty much everything they need in their RV".

I say, "Yeah, it's like that, only it's a little skinnier and it floats." Then they say, "You're a very social person, won't you get bored sitting confined in such a small space, staring out at nothing for days?"

This is why I took my wife on my week-long Canadian bare boat skipper's certification course, sailing out of Vancouver. It was a Hunter 31 and my wife said she didn't hate it. She has always enjoyed car camping and cabin camping. I have learned that she needs a comfortable bed and hot coffee in the morning, and she will follow me just about anywhere.

I have told my wife all of the lies that sailing husband's tell their non sailing wives: "Oh no Honey, our own boat will be much more comfortable because we'll fix it up the way we like it, and you can make it every bit as comfortable as home"; "No Honey, sailing isn't expensive. It's cheaper than flying places in an airplane and paying for hotel rooms and rental cars. And it's cheaper than retiring and taking cruises on cruise ships"; "No Honey, sail boats rarely ever sink. They're made of plastic. Even when they do sink, they take, on average of two hours to sink. Plus they have three different kinds of water pumps to pump the water out. And all of the places we will be sailing, the Coast Guard can get to within 20 minutes with one of their helicopters."

I've subjected my family to hours and hours of sailing videos, careful only to show the fun, fair weather sailing, and not the episodes with crashes, groundings, or extreme weather. I always make a point of pointing out, "See, that guy and his girlfriend bought a sailboat without knowing anything about sailing, or boats, they figured it out along the way, and have now sailed around the world the past few years. They didn't even take sailing courses like I did".

I read an article one day about a guy in his 90s who was lost at sea. I made some comment about how he was lucky, dying doing something he loved. Later my daughter sat me down to have a heart-to-heart talk. She wanted to make sure that I wasn't getting into sailing so that I could go to sea to commit suicide because I was depressed about getting older. I pointed out that the guy in the article was 30 years older than I am. I'm certainly not ready to check out yet.

In the Midwest, I have to deal with questions from people who say things like, "But aren't there sometimes killer whales or great white sharks that ram holes in small boats and then eat the people when they try to swim to safety?"


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Loved being a doc. Figuring weird stuff out was endlessly fascinating. Then they took my profession and made it into a business. They added more obligate screen time so I had little facetime with my patients. They had people with much less training and knowledge tell me what I could do. They penalized me for ordering that extra test or more expensive medication and saving a life or three. 
Got burnt out. Everything was a fight. Maybe they have raised the floor but they have lowered the ceiling. Time to leave as I have too much respect for people as to do anything less than the best. Time to go sailing.
Wife made me a promise. I could sail and she would come but she had to have a house to come home to time to time. Last four years house has been more empty than full. 
Interestingly I still find docking scarier than passage. What fascinates me I if you look at the statistics coastal is the most dangerous for miles traveled from what I understand. But the common question asked is why do you do this. You can’t even see land.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Hey don’t be bumming me out, I have a limited supply of wine currently on the boat.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

pdqaltair said:


> I have friends from high school that "followed their dreams," sailing and living somewhat bohemian. They are to a one, frustrated by lack of funds to do, pretty much, anything. They will be working until the end. It's hard talking to them.
> 
> The rat race and the system of "always wanting more" that goes with it is deeply flawed, but we do need to earn our keep, and a big cushion is better for most people. It's relaxing. The trick is to avoid buying too deeply into the "wanting more" part. I was also lucky (or smart) in choosing a career I really liked. Work was good. I still consult some, because I like it. Some days it's emotionally quite rewarding, even better than sailing. For me, both are about accomplishing something.


Wise words right here.

I fully believe that most people who fail to obtain and maintain financial stability -- through work, or inheritance, or some other good luck -- will come to regret it at some point in time, even if they never admit to it.

I went through years of living paycheck to paycheck in my 20s and it sucked! There's a lot of stress that comes with barely scraping by. Now at age 40, having worked hard in my career and at saving, we have a very comfortable level of freedom in our lives, and we are very happy and content. We are taking 4 overseas trips in the span of a year, just because we can. And early retirement around age 50 is the current goal. This is doable for anyone who works hard, saves diligently, and doesn't pop out too many kids to support!

I have friends who have been bouncing around aimlessly since high school. Some have done some neat things at times, but overall life seems to be a serious struggle most of the time when living without a steady income and savings. I don't envy any of these people now, and especially not in 20-30 years.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

As the immortal Willy said


You got the money honey I got the time


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

re: hot coffee in the morning.

I don't think it is possible to wake up in anything less than a great mood, when you are awakened by the smell of fresh coffee, and if you're especially lucky, coffee AND BACON.

The first time I went on an offshore passage, my mother asked me "Aren't you worried?!" because, you know, that's a big ocean and a little boat. I said no, quite the opposite. I don't have to worry about crazy neighbors making loud noises. Or having kitchen fires. Or alternate side of the street parking. Or being mugged. Or all that city stuff.
But the boat could SINK.
Yeah, well, either it is floating and dry or there's a leak. If there's a leak you either stop it or you don't. If you can't stop it, you either get in the life raft or you drown. It's all pretty binary, and that kinda keeps things SIMPLE and that's a whole lot less to worry about than normal city life.
If you've done your worrying in advance (aka "proper planning") and considered the options and alternatives...you're down to one worry at a time, and that's not so bad.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Some additional thoughts about these boogie men that prevents or haunts some people when trying to decide to commit to sailing... off shore.

I began this with painfully little hands on experience and only knowledge from reading a score of books about sailboats and cruising. I was drawn to and enchanted by it and realized that it WAS doable if one had the motivation, intelligence, courage, money and time. You can't do much about your intelligence but you CAN educate yourself about almost anything... all the information is out there... generously put there for those who want to learn.

Money is a real hurdle. Some people work hard and save and buy a home and all manner of things for it and to enjoy, engage in sports and so on. Some save and have a nest egg to use when they retire. Boats are spendy so realistically you need a decent amount of cash to play. But houses and cars, and motorcycles are also spendy. It's a choice in many cases. If you have acquired stuff you are smart, motivated and COULD transition to cruising. So many HAVE the stuff for motivation.

Courage is a whole other thing. Life has risks. We think we can manage them.. seat belts, insurance policies, preparation and so on. People manage boat risks as well the same way. No you can't eliminate risk... but you can remove enough of the anxiety of risk to allow you to go for it.

Time for these sorts of things are typically either found as "past times"... things for days off, vacations and so on... We long for these times and regret having to return to the "no fun" times where we work.
Just as they say... "youth is wasted on the young".. I'd say retirement is wasted on people who can't do much at that age (kinda)". I propose more people consider a sabbatical or career interruptus when they are young (enough), strong (enough) and confident enough to do something new. Your rut is not that deep that you can't get out of it in mid life. Much harder when you are an old foggie.

My experience was that I was doing fine in my chosen career which I had invested a lot in since attending college. I was faced with growing "bigger", facing the whims of the economy and all the usual mid life dilemmas. I was unburdened by a family... so I was socially "light" with few ties keeping me "in place".

I took the plunge... with the motivation, a bit of book knowledge and a 1 week sailing course, I bought the boat. I wanted to get the boat and me prepared to sail away from the familiar. For me it was a 5 year process... working and winding that down, and sailing and learning and working on the boat projects and bringing that up to "readiness". I learned the boat very very well, I did all the upgrades and so on... I sailed her as much as I possibly could and finally entered an offshore race to see if the boat and I had what it would take to sail off. It was quite the test but we passed it in Summer 91. Then the separation from the life on dirt began in earnest and took until Fall to complete. When I was done all I had in life was some things stored in an attic of my brother's house, money in the bank... and what I would take with me on the boat. Car was given away, furniture and clothing donated to charity. I was homeless aside from the boat and it was getting cold and I needed to go south.

Best decision I made in life. I evolved from an "architect" as my core identity.. to a sailor. Of course I am still an architect and can and do work in the field. But it's not what I love to do most and I have no vision of some achievement. It's a job... and it can be a great one. Sailing and caring for a boat is a completely different and for me much more fulfilling mission.

I've been back on dirt for decades and sail and cruise locally and I suppose that will become increasingly difficult as my body goes from middle aged to old age. 

I have no regrets of making the transition when I did. All my great memories are not of architecture or work... but of sailing and seeing nature and creative people and things. Final chapter is more passive but also beautiful.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Great post SanderO. 

Biggest risk we take everyday is driving in traffic. Seriously.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Nice Sander/Sal. I think the even bigger risk is letting our fears rule our lives. 

I think people, in general, are getting less risk tolerant. So many of us live in fear; fear of "pirates, storms, healthcare, fallback plans”. But mostly, I think people are afraid of uncertainty, and a future they can’t fully control.

One thing age teaches us is that the future is always uncertain, and control is an illusion at best. We can be smart about things. We can mitigate risks, but we can never know for certain what lies beyond the horizon, or even around the corner.


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## Stevieray (Jan 23, 2019)

Haha. Keep an eye on the weather and don't be in a hurry. "Hurtling around in a metal box at 50 to 80 mph every day is pretty risky too" and there's a lot less room for error on the daily commute!😳


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

According to the way that this thread is going; I can risk my life racing around in heavy traffic, or sail off into the sunset and live happily ever after.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

All good points of view on this thread, even if they don't fully agree with each other.


MikeOReilly said:


> Nice Sander/Sal. I think the even bigger risk is letting our fears rule our lives.
> 
> I think people, in general, are getting less risk tolerant. So many of us live in fear; fear of "pirates, storms, healthcare, fallback plans". But mostly, I think people are afraid of uncertainty, and a future they can't fully control.
> 
> One thing age teaches us is that the future is always uncertain, and control is an illusion at best. We can be smart about things. We can mitigate risks, but we can never know for certain what lies beyond the horizon, or even around the corner.


I want to discourage any attempts to characterize non-cruisers as risk averse. Many of us simply have land-based commitments, or simply prefer to see children, grandchildren, and friends near home as the default and travel to the boat for short hops, instead of vice-versa. It's a choice that may not have anything to do with risk aversion.

Personally, if at some point our kids end up scattered all over the place so that we'd have travel to see them anyway, I could envision trying the snowbird thing for a winter. But for us it would simply be trying out a different lifestyle iff family was so scattered that it didn't matter where we were. In that case, we'd probably leave the boat and fly out to see family once or twice during the winter.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

There is no right way, wrong way, lesser way or greater way.
Whatever it takes for you to wake up with a smile is your right way.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> ...I want to discourage any attempts to characterize non-cruisers as risk averse. ...


Sorry for the vagueness in my comments Rick. I wasn't delineating along a cruiser/non-cruisers line. My view is as I said; that I think in general people in our societies are getting less risk tolerant overall. I think people are increasingly afraid of uncertainty, and of a future they can't fully control.

Cruising to me is a means to an end. I cruise b/c it is a way for me to live a life that is relatively free, and somewhat meaningful (as defined by me). Living and travelling in a smallish sailboat is just one way of doing this. There are many other ways, some of which I also like to do.



boatpoker said:


> There is no right way, wrong way, lesser way or greater way. Whatever it takes for you to wake up with a smile is your right way.


+1. Exactly.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

You guys make it so complex.

It’s just sailing and bumming around on a boat. Why does everyone want to box in what that has to mean?


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

boatpoker said:


> There is no right way, wrong way, lesser way or greater way.
> Whatever it takes for you to wake up with a smile is your right way.


Agree. I think my only real fear of doing a long passage at my age is boredom. That does not mean that I will never take my boat out onto the ocean out of sight of land. Indeed I do have plans to do that at some point. but these days I don't feel the need to spend weeks out on the Ocean doing a Trans-Ocean Passage. Plus I've had enough experiences in coastal waters both good and bad to remind me it can be a mixed bag on a boat. But a couple of days out of sight of land in a good weather window may be enough to for me to experience some solitude on the sea and satiate my desire without getting are "we there yet syndrome". Sailing at a leisurely pace with no particular destination in mind except when I decide to head back to the coast just appeals to me much more these days.

Exhibit A:


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

mbianka said:


> Agree. I think my only real fear of doing a long passage at my age is boredom.


I've only done one trans-Atlantic and it was the most tedious 17 days of my life.
I love the Rideau, NY State Canals, ICW and the Abacos .... whatever floats your boat.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

mbianka said:


> Agree. I think my only real fear of doing a long passage at my age is boredom. That does not mean that I will never take my boat out onto the ocean out of sight of land. Indeed I do have plans to do that at some point. but these days I don't feel the need to spend weeks out on the Ocean doing a Trans-Ocean Passage. Plus I've had enough experiences in coastal waters both good and bad to remind me it can be a mixed bag on a boat. But a couple of days out of sight of land in a good weather window may be enough to for me to experience some solitude on the sea and satiate my desire without getting are "we there yet syndrome". Sailing at a leisurely pace with no particular destination in mind except when I decide to head back to the coast just appeals to me much more these days.
> 
> Exhibit A:


For me sailing out in the ocean was not really a goal. It was a hurdle to pass to get me and the boat down to the Caribbean. I could have hired a delivery crew or shipped the boat down. I did the passages mostly just to get where I wanted to be. Ocean passages are mostly boring and at times can be terrifying or even glorious. I would bet that most cruisers who are out sailing the world feel similarly. You do have a lot of time to focus on your thoughts, your boat, the weather and your progress... and if with company that you can spend time with... conversation.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

boatpoker said:


> I've only done one trans-Atlantic and it was the most tedious 17 days of my life.
> I love the Rideau, NY State Canals, ICW and the Abacos .... whatever floats your boat.


Indeed. I took my boat up to Canada and back via the Hudson River, Erie and Oswego Canals. Enjoyed that trip very much. Keep thinking I would love to do it again now that I have Electric Propulsion as opposed to the diesel I had back then. I would be so much quieter.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

boatpoker said:


> I've only done one trans-Atlantic and it was the most tedious 17 days of my life.


What???????????????????

Every time I do it I love it! Every day of it! Once solo I didnt get much wind and it was 30 days instead of 21ish and the last 2 or 3 days did drag a bit, but only because I had run out of fresh food.

Every wave is different!
Every wave is sacred and deserves your full glorious gaze.
If its your second or third trip you will recognise some waves! "Hi wave, still bouncing around?"

To learn how to go to sea for a long time just go to sea. at some stage you will get bored but the boredom goes and you really just live like no other way in the world. Truly wonderful! 

:cut_out_animated_em

Mark


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Every wave is different!
> Every wave is sacred and deserves your full glorious gaze...


Every sailor is different too.


MarkofSeaLife said:


> ...If its your second or third trip you will recognise some waves! "Hi wave, still bouncing around?"


Spending too much time in social isolation can lead to hallucinations.  Did this wave talk back to you? :laugher


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> Spending too much time in social isolation can lead to hallucinations.  Did this wave talk back to you? :laugher


How dare you laugh.... it came aboard!


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> How dare you laugh.... it came aboard!


and drank your beer and wine, then seduced your women away and left you dry and lonely

typical sea tale


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## JohnT777 (Jul 2, 2018)

Kind of my sentiments. The idea of relying on society to take care of you seems sketchy at best. I trust the government about as far as I can spit into the wind. Most everyone else seems to feel the same. Why not get a boat and do something about it?


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

TakeFive said:


> Every sailor is different too.
> 
> Spending too much time in social isolation can lead to hallucinations.  Did this wave talk back to you? :laugher


Good point. Some us prefer to sail alone. Mark always sails with a crew even if they are only in his head.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

JohnT777 said:


> ...Most everyone else seems to feel the same...


Data to back this up?


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