# Motor vs Rowing inflatable dinghy...



## shadowraiths (Nov 2, 2011)

... not as a tender. Rather, for exploring, exercise, etc.

Okay, so I scored an RU 260 off craigslist. It came with dock wheels, which are amazingly useful. Also, a custom cover and tow rope. I jury rigged a rear view mirror (_bicycle mirror_), wind vane, and streamers (_so big boats can see me_). Here's a pic of the way I have it set up.








I've been rowing almost every day since I picked it up a week ago. I did not plan to get a motor, as I am using it to a) exercise and b) explore. The thing is, a couple of days ago, I got caught in a strong current, and this had me re-thinking the motor bit. I rowed about 5.7 miles that day. Though, most of it was leisurely rowing, the current really taxed me.

So... I've been investigating potential motor solutions.

Since I wash it down and store it on the dock every night, the motor would have to be reasonably light. This led me to researching an electric motor, as I would still only use it if I got caught in a bind. Thing is, the batteries weigh a ton. Over exaggeration, I know. But you hopefully get my point. The other thing is, that is additional weight I would be rowing around. Oh and. I am not interested in "_planing_" the dink. That is, the motor would be for situations where I find myself in a bind, like the other day.

I've also considered the little Nissan 2.5 motors, or something similar. They have more power, but then, I'd have to deal with the gas. Again, weight becomes a factor. Esp lugging the thing on/off the dink. Yes, I could use a halyard, but the extra hassle makes taking it out less fun, iykwim.

I have considered just painting the bottom with anti-fouling paint for inflatables and just leaving it in the water over the summer, as I have plenty of room behind my boat in my slip. But I am not sure how to deal with covering it to protect against UV. My custom cover is designed for storing it on the hard.

Oh and, aside. Speaking of UV. I admittedly don't get it. If I'm out rowing all day, it's getting lots of UV rays. So, perhaps coating it with UV protectant might be a good idea?

My other concern is the fact that motors tend to get stolen. Yes, I could put a motor lock on it. But again, it increases the usage hassle. Plus, the motor could increase the possibility of the whole dink getting stolen. Of course, I have a lock for the dink, too. But again, extra hassle.

So, here's my Q. For those who have/use dinks for just puttering around, is a motor worth the effort/cost? If not, how do you deal with those rare binds? Any/all ideas, opinions, etc. welcomed.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm not sure where you are located but here in the pnw we have lots of current, so a motor is almost mandatory. A little 4hp motor with an integrated tank only weights about 40lbs. It can be hung on your stern rail, no problem.


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## shadowraiths (Nov 2, 2011)

I'm in the alameda estuary. There is some current but for the most part, not enough to pose a problem. 40lbs, isn't bad. What brands? I've been googling, reading forums about light weight motors. Trying to do my homework. lol


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

I have a Honda 4hp, 4 stroke with an integrated tank, 38lbs. It's quiet, no mixing of oil and it starts easily. It pushes our 6' Booth dinghy along at a scary pace.

Oh and it has neutral but no reverse. Some have no gearbox at all.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

San Fransisco, beautiful city. It reminds me of my home town Nanaimo, except bigger.


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## shadowraiths (Nov 2, 2011)

I really like the SF bay area. While rowing around, to my dismay, most of the docks are private. So, I've been making contact with the managers to see if I can dock my dinghy during my exploring trips. For example, going to starbucks via my dinghy, as opposed to walking to one down the street, appeals to me. Or, stopping by the little german restaurant across from coast guard island on my way home as opposed to walking to a local deli.

Oh, btw, speaking of coast guard island. Almost every time I'm out, I run into (_figure of speech_) a couple of coast guard zodiac (?) boats zipping around. Anyway, today, they passed very close, and much to my surprise? They had huge freaking machine guns mounted on the bow. 

Btw, and back to the subject. I should have mentioned... I am looking at picking up a small sailboat (_laser, open bic, rs tera, or something similar_) as well. As I really want to get out and learn how to sail. lol. The dinghy is really my puttering around explorer and exercise boat and the sailboat will be my learning how to sail and getting plenty wet boat. lol.


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## Dog Ship (Sep 23, 2011)

As a Canadian, I will keep my opinions about the bow mounted 50 caliber machine gun to myself.
As far as a choice of sailboat to learn on, I would recommend a Lazer or something similar. I taught myself how to sail on a Lazer some 40 plus years ago and I still have fond memories of hull number 114.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

4 hp Tahatsu. 52 lbs. first one which has integral tank or can hook external tank to it. Quiet


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

I applaud you. My inflatable doesn't row for sh*t. One of the oarlocks slips, the other one doesn't, so I end up with different length oars and going round in circles. After 1 attempt rowing I bought a 2.5hp Suzuki, weighs about 35lbs, wouldn't go without.


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## shadowraiths (Nov 2, 2011)

My oar locks have a ring that I tighten down to make them stay in place. I wasn't sure what setting I should have them, so I have tried out different configs. I've also been watching the scullers practice (_i know, different type boats_), so that has helped a lot.

What I have found interesting/counter intuitive, is that it's actually easier to row upwind against the tide. When rowing down wind with the tide, my dink wants to turn sideways, so I have to do a 1 stroke left, 2-3 strokes right, or vice versa, to keep the dink going in the direction I want to go. This really slows me down.

When I have a good rhythm going, I am making btwn 2-3 mph (_per my gps_) as opposed to 1.5 mph downwind, with the current. When I hit that heavy current snag in the bottleneck, I was rowing at least twice as hard just to stay in the same place.  Since I don't want to do that again, in addition to dealing with the dredging vessels that are docked and and sometimes moving in and out of that area, I won't be going down there any time in the near or distant future. Motor or no.

Btw, and another thought. During my research, some have mentioned getting longer oars. Based upon this calculation, I would need 8' oars. I have been browsing oars and the longest I could find at the marine shops were 5', which, in light of this guy's comment, can't say I'm surprised.. By expanding my search however, I was able to find these. Though, I still want to do more shopping around, comparison price, design, etcetera.

And finally, here's an interesting article about the perils of rowing an inflatable dink. Imho, the author makes some relevant points. Though, I admittedly enjoy rowing around the estuary. Go figure. lol


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Given the interest in rowing and sailing I think you might like a sailing tender. I have a Dyer Dhow Midget, which is quite small and simple. There are plenty of examples in the 10' range that are better sailboats (with supported masts and sometimes even a jib). I'm surprised not to see many of these on SF Craigslist, they are common on the Seattle one. Here is an example of a larger one:
11' Ranger Sailboat

or a smaller one:
RANGER SAILING DINGHY 8' W/ Full Sail Rig

My dinghy outboard is the 2hp Honda. I bought it used on Craigslist from the original owner. It's extremely simple with no neutral or reverse. It is also a workhorse and reliable and light at about 25lbs (the current version is 30lbs). Gas is no fus, the fuel tank is built in. However the fuel tank is also very small (1 liter) and only lasts about an hour. I mostly use it on my inflatable, but I've stuck it onto my Dyer Dhow Midget too.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Have you seen the Seagull engines?


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

jimgo said:


> Have you seen the Seagull engines?


why would you wish a seagull on him?


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

If you bought that dinghy specifically for rowing, then you certainly bought the wrong boat! RIBs are absolute pigs to row! You might want to consider a small Whitehall style row boat instead. They are a dream to row, and you can make good headway even against wind and waves!

Of course inflatables definitely have their strong points as tenders. We have an 8' Aquapro, and we use a Yamaha 4hp 2stroke on it. The engine weighs under 50lb and has a full F-N-R transmission. If you want the lightest engine possible, try to find an old Tohatsu/Nissan/Mercury (They are all identical except for branding) 2.5hp 2 stroke. They are dead simple, reliable and ridiculously light. They have F-N only, and you spin the engine 180deg for reverse.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Dog Ship said:


> I'm not sure where you are located but here in the pnw we have lots of current, so a motor is almost mandatory. A little 4hp motor with an integrated tank only weights about 40lbs. It can be hung on your stern rail, no problem.


I have been rowing mine and having no problems. Often on days like today I am a twenty minute row from the dock in currents and wind and I get funny looks! Like "what is that guy doing rowing?" I never even considered a motor and I am perfectly happy as is. I think if you get one you will weigh down your dinghy and make it harder to row and I think if you have the option you will end up using it all the time.

I'm a little frustrated by some of the looks I get and the comments. I get people shouting patronizing comments at me several times a week. This week I had

" keep rowing you'll get there"
And 
" why don't ou get a motor."

This from people who will happily cruise to an island and anchor for a week with nothing to do and just sit around and relax, somehow when it comes to a dinghy they are in too much of a hurry to row for fifteen minutes.

I think it's a good way for excercise like you already know. I guess you're just going to have to avoid the 4 knot currents. I can't imagine they are that common where you might be rowing.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

in wind is hard to row the puffboat--also current--both same time--even funner...i would buy whatever small or whatever sized engine is recommended for the size of boat and play in thes un without too much worry about getting home---oh yes--always take your oars with ye when you go exploring.......might wanna consider a kayak for sploring--they are fast and some are even stable.....


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

I had an inflatable similar to yours with a Honda 2HP 4 stroke. With two of us plus gear it would go about 5 knots. Weighed 27 lbs and the small tank would last all day trolling. 
I used to carry an extra pint can of gas but never had to use it.

Rowing in anything but calm winds and much current was a chore. don't work hard, work smart.

Paul T


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## shadowraiths (Nov 2, 2011)

We have 12 mph winds and high current today, so I ended up checking out a local boat swap meet and putzing around my boat today. And, of course, surfing inet. I figure rowing every other day should be good enough. I did run into a guy putting in the estuary with a little trolling motor. Or rather, I should say, ****huge guy***. Which increased my resolve to stick with rowing as opposed to using a motor to explore.

As for the swap meet. I love those. Found a danforth fortress fx 7 anchor with chain, rode, & carrying case for throwing down in case I need to wait for an ebb tide. Or simply anchor for a quick break. It's a really nice little rig. It breaks apart and comes with its own carrying bag and tools. Since the estuary is sand, the mushroom anchors just won't do. This is reasonably heavy, even with a shortish chain. But it should do here in the estuary. So, now I'm totally set for exploring. Have expandable dock hook, throw rope, pfd (_of course_), tow harness (_just in case_), patch kit (_just in case_), pump (_just in case_), and a waterproof lamp (_in the event I get caught after dark_). The latter is doubtful bc it gets really cold once the sun sets.

Also picked up a lee cloth that I have affixed to the transom rail on my main rig. Yeah, spending money that I shouldn't. Though, to mitigate over-spending, I only checked out so much. lol

As for looks/comments? I haven't received any funny looks or negative comments. Or, perhaps, I just don't notice. It takes a lot to insult me. Regardless, the boaters have been waving, and I nod. Stopping rowing to wave throws off my rhythm. Some do stop and ask questions. Though, people seem to be the most fascinated with my rear view mirror/wind vane setup. I'm using broom holders to affix the thing to the transom. And, of course, since the transom is wood, I did use silicone sealant. I do worry a bit about rust, as these are metal (_zinc_). Then again, since everything gets sprayed down and covered... we'll see... A few have said I should patent it. I think they're finally figuring out that I am a seriously geeky gal. lol

Yeah, I am also considering a kayak if I wanna explore further and faster. I have my eye on the wilderness tarpon 120. For now however puttering around in the inflatable is fine. Am not in a hurry to get anywhere, actually. Just want to play on the water, so to speak.

And yes, a sailing dinghy that can double as a rower makes sense. Otoh, I did look at a few but they had a fairly big footprint and I wasn't really crazy about the design. That, and I am sorta leaning toward the Open Bic style hull.






Even after reading this review, I'm still sorta sweet on the Open Bic. What can I say? I like the hull style and it looks like it would be a ton of fun to sail. And yeah, I know. It is designed for kids. Then again, being a smallish female does have its advantages. ^_~


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Then it sounds like you're happy an having fun and headed in the right direction.


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## algee (Feb 28, 2010)

Rowing an inflatable dinghy is like trying to push a rope. It can be done but it aint easy.


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## shadowraiths (Nov 2, 2011)

northoceanbeach said:


> Then it sounds like you're happy an having fun and headed in the right direction.


Yup. Quite happy. Being out on the estuary is peaceful. And sometimes, rather other-worldly. For example, there is this one channel marker near coast guard island where a group of cormorants gather to perch. Kinda gives off a surreal poe feeling. Also, people tend not to come out until mid-to-late afternoons on weekdays. So, outside of a stray paddler, kayaker, or barge, I pretty much have the estuary all to myself.



algee said:


> Rowing an inflatable dinghy is like trying to push a rope. It can be done but it aint easy.


Dang. I must not have received the memo. Bc rowing the dink seems to be quite easy, once I got the hang of it. Then again, I'm not in a hurry or trying to plane the thing. lol


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## elspru (Jul 28, 2012)

Personally for the tender am planning on going with the Walker Bay, 
it's as roomy as an inflatable, is strong, and is rigid making it easier to row and sail. 
there is 8-foot version for 2 people








and 10-foot for 3 people (family size)









the sail power, would certainly make it easier for you to surpass currents, and drastically increase your range of exploration.
remember when sailing to avoid tipping over, you can generally let go of the mainsheet (propulsion) but always hold onto the tiller (steering).

here is a review of walker bay: http://www.sailingbreezes.com/sailing_breezes_current/articles/june02/walker10.htm
"a full-length molded keel from the transom to the bow. This adds stiffness and helps the boats track straight when rowed or towed."
"They usually tow better than inflatables. They always row better, especially in wind."

the mast can be disassembled into two pieces for easy storage.

seems like it would require some minor modifications to become an optimal sailing dinghy, like adding hiking straps for higher speed sailing. 
though its great as a rower and that's you're main activity anyways.

Also it has the option of getting inflatable edges for the kind of stability you may be used to in the inflatable, and minimizing chances of swamping the boat when heeling during sailing.


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## shadowraiths (Nov 2, 2011)

Yeah, WBs seem decent and inexpensive. Have read that they're even better with the stabilizing tubes. And yeah, the optional sailing rig makes them even more attractive (_i.e., rowing, motoring, & sailing options in one package_). I, figuratively speaking, ran into a guy the other day who was puttering around with a WB+tubes. He was running with 40T prowler outboard. Said he was testing to see how long the battery would last. He was out there at least 3 Hrs. The boston whaler is kewl, too. Though, I must admit, my favorite in that class is the fatty knees. The lapstrake hull and over all design is, to my mind, eye candy. Unfortunately all of these start moving into the hard to manage due to weight, coupled with the size, factor. My neighbors use their whisker pole to lift theirs on/off their boat. Even my dink, which is 53lbs takes some work getting it in/out of the water. Which is primarily bc I'm so short. lol


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm rowing an Avon 8. It took about an hour to get down the rowing and now I too find it peaceful. I rowed to Friday harbor and back to my anchorage three times today. Each way is about a half mile?


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

Get a motor. Rowing sucks. And if your dinghy is not heavy or lacks a keel you will make little to no progress with even a 1.5mph current. I know bc i have an inflateable soft bottom. It wears you out and leaves you stranded if current is too strong. Get a motor. Its high on my list of items to buy soon as i start working again. Im down to my last 400$ at the moment. Should last 3400$ weeks. Hope to be working by next week.


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

I seriosuly hate my phone more daily. I look so forward to the day when this stupid contract is up so i can throw it in whatever body of water i am nearest. Screw cell phones.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Really nice to hear some folks still enjoy rowing their tenders, such a simple, practical pleasure appears to becoming a lost art among today's crowd out there...

Rowing has been one of my most enduring passions, as a kid growing up on Barnegat Bay I practically _LIVED_ aboard the 8' pram my dad built for me that carried me on my initial waterborne adventures... Rowing remains by far my favorite form of exercise, rowing with a sliding seat rig and competition-length sculls affords as good a workout as I can handle, and the most beautiful boat I currently own is one of these gems from Chesapeake Light Craft...










Gotta disagree with those who insist rowing an inflatable is too difficult... My Avon Lite RIB rows quite nicely, no comparison to a hard dink of course, but the deep vee bottom really helps... Flat-bottomed roll-ups like yours are more difficult to manage, but it sounds as if you're doing just fine... Does yours have some form of inflatable keel between the slatted floorboards and the bottom, to give it a bit more shape? If not, you might want to experiment with the insertion of something to give it a bit more deadrise. It will track better, and help diminish the suction effect which is one of the major downsides of towing a flat-bottomed inflatable...

For those with Avon-style oarlocks, Tom Zydler has an interesting piece in the latest CRUISING WORLD on his clever solution to beefing them up, and convert them to use with conventional oarlocks... Well worth a look...

Your "calculation" of an 8' oar length sounds a bit long to me, something closer to 6.5 or 7 feet sounds about right... 2-piece oars like the ones you show from Carlisle are pretty much a must for cruising, Caviness makes nice ones, as well... I'd suggest you look around for some spoon blades as opposed to flat blades, they will enhance the power of your stroke... Finally, learn to 'feather' your oars as you row, that is a much more effective technique, especially in a bit more wind or chop...

I'm now using this pair from West Marine that are fully adjustable... Other than the fact that a couple of small components have shown a tendency to rust, I'm pretty happy with them...

WEST MARINE Adjustable Aluminum Oars at West Marine










As for an engine, I've been using a Honda 2 HP for several years now... Some folks seem to find them rather cranky, and others have a bit of difficulty dealing with the centrifugal clutch, but I've had good luck with mine, and find it suits my style of cruising very nicely... Their primary drawback, being air-cooled, is their rather annoying noise... They are pretty loud when run at anything much beyond idle, and if I were buying again now, I'd probably have a close look at a Suzuki 2.5... But whatever you do, I'd suggest you keep the size of any engine modest - I've long been on the record here and elsewhere in my belief that one of the most common mistakes many cruisers are making today, is their tendency to becoming 'over-boated' when it comes to the size, power, and speed of their tenders...

Enjoy yourself, and keep on rowing... It really is a shame the activity is disappearing from the scene, a leisurely row through an anchorage or mooring field has traditionally been one of the most pleasant ways to meet other sailors and make new acquaintances, seems a pity comparatively few seem to bother doing so anymore...


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

I bought an inexpensive Baltic inflatable a few years ago. It has not only held up remarkably well but rows like dream. People often comment on how well it rows. It has an inflatable V section in the bow which totally changes the way it cuts through the water. I've had Achilles and Bombard inflatables in the past and neither has held up as well as this MUCH cheaper Baltic boat. There is no sign of the transom loosening, no delamination of any of the glued-on parts and it has shown no apparent UV degradation yet. The oarlocks are s.s. swing-up bolts with threaded cap nuts and although these negate feathering the oars, it also stops them from popping out of oarlocks that move around as they do on balloon boats. I made some real, longer wood oars to replace the crappy, stubby little aluminum oars that come with all the inflatables and can get a good purchase on the water. 

Carrying gas is something I want to avoid and so far I've been able to do without an outboard. I also carry an old 8' whitewater kayak aboard which can go long distances in essentially any sea condition with the skirt on. It's also nice for exploring without the noise of an outboard.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Yes you can row an inflatable, but a hard dinghy is a much better way to go if you want ot avoid a motor. For exploring protected waterways, a kayak is the way to go.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Glad to hear that you're rowing and that you're enjoying it too! I row, because I don't have an outboard, and I enjoy it sometimes. I do sometimes feel like I'm the only one left on the water using his/her oars. How strange that people would call out disparaging comments to someone rowing....

I grew up playing with an 11' plywood floored (with inflatable "keel") PVC inflatable dink. I use that little craft every way you could think of. I have had a 2HP, 6HP and 15HP on it at different times. I experimented with various forms of sail rigs (all failures) and rowed it quite a bit.

One day I was going for an evening row IN MY MARINA and the current took me down the fairway. I tried to row against it but couldn't and had to row 90deg to the current and beach the boat, go get my car, and muscle it on top of the car and drive it back to the marina. I was discouraged to say the least that I COULD NOT row it against a modest current, but I also wondered about safety. I did have an anchor, but staying anchored for half the night didn't sound like fun. 

Ever since that event I'm pretty soured on inflatables. I don't trust small outboards and don't want to have a big one. So what happens when the outboard dies while out exploring in an inflatable that you can't always row back to the boat.... hmmm..... Been looking for the perfect rigid dinghy ever since. 

It sounds like you're enjoying many of the disadvantages of an inflatable but enjoying few of the advantages. They're primarily loved for their stability and the fact that they don't need fenders. Many don't ever deflate them, but there's that advantage too. I have a feeling that if you switched to a rigid dink of any kind you'd be in heaven. 

The Walker Bay's are actually pretty good little boats, and since they're everywhere a used one should be able to be had cheaply. I have a Portland Pudgy which comes up on craigslist sometimes for reasonable prices. 

Another thought is to get a kite (like a toy kite) and use it as a sail to help you move your craft. Kayaks do it and they even have their own small kayak sails. Might be hard to deal with since you don't have a rudder, but you could look at it. Another idea, which a friend of mine did for his kayak, was he kept a large folding golf umbrella (which had a clamp on it). In the rain, it kept the rain off of him. In the sun it kept the sun off. In the wind, you could open it up and it acted as a very effective sail. 

Happy rowing!

MedSailor


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## Seaduction (Oct 24, 2011)

Sounds like somebody here is having a bad day on the maiden voyage.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I get more patronizing comments, like how cute, he's rowing his dinghy, hope ou get there mate, types. So it's created a mini attitude for me. I'm not understanding this whole must have an outboard. Do we really anchor in such strong currents? I'm in a part of the world with decent currents and have yet to have a problem rowing. 

Example. 

Just read an article about Princess Louisa inlet. The author describes the peace quiet beauty. Then it shows him exploring coves in his dinghy with a two stroke outboard. I'm reading this post and thinking why is everyone thinking an outboard is such a necessity? Have you seen what two strokes dump into the water? How they smell? How do you describe the beauty of small coves while motoring you sinking polluting outboard?


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

northoceanbeach said:


> Do we really anchor in such strong currents? I'm in a part of the world with decent currents and have yet to have a problem rowing.


For me, the answer is NO I do not need an outboard to avoid the currents WITH MY CURRENT TENDER. With my inflatable with the plywood floor, yes I did need an outboard (or a change of craft). I just couldn't row it against a current, but with my new tender I feel safe enough that I can.

The outboard is a choice for me (though I don't have one), whereas the ABILITY to row the craft against a current without the outboard is a must for me. This is because I don't trust small motors so even if I did have one I'd still worry that it would conk out and I'd be trying to row my rubber bathtub.

MedSailor


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## shadowraiths (Nov 2, 2011)

Okay, went out and picked up the longer oars. Wasn't really crazy about them, in that the longer length did not seem to make that much of a difference... unless I was power rowing. Which I'm not. Plus, if I left the oarlocks loose enough to do a feather/block, the oars slid all over the place, making the rowing tougher. I tried them at various lengths, and when I got back, decided to return them for now. I may change my mind later, but for now, the ones that come with the raft seem to be fine.

We had two windy days, which were not really conducive to rowing around, so I putzed around, and looked at, among other things, different raft sail configs. In fact, I am thinking about making my own rig, similar to this SailBoatsToGo setup:










But the only reason I would do something like that would be more of a jury rig challenge. You know, just for the halibut.

As I stated, I do enjoy rowing my little dinghy. Moreover, while other dinghies are great, I already purchased this from craigslist. So, looking at buying something else simply makes no sense.

At this point, I'm leaning away from buying a motor for the thing. So, I'll be limiting my exploring expeditions away from the heavier currents and during light or no wind days. Which is fine as my initial reason for getting a dink in the first place was to be able to go over to Jack London Square and Grand Marina via water, instead of driving or taking a bus. The place is less than a mile as the crow flies... or rather, as the dink rows. lol In fact, I rowed over to Grand Marina this morning, and then, to Jack London Square, where I wandered around, and then headed back before the wind picked up. The total row was only 3 miles. So, not really much of a work out, but still fun.

Imho, the reason I enjoy rowing is bc I'm not in a position where I have to get somewhere. So, it's not really a chore. I think if I was depending upon this little boat as a tender... say, I was anchored out and had to get to shore, I might not enjoy it... bc I *had to* row. Then again, I would not have picked it up, if I was looking for a tender.


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## shadowraiths (Nov 2, 2011)

Okay, you guys talked me into trading up... sorta. I've put my dinghy up for sale and in the mean time am gonna pick up a walker bay that is rigged out for sailing (_and rowing, of course_). Still no motor. Which is exactly like I want it.

I did some research on rowing shells. Talking about drooling! There's some real sweet ones. But honestly, most of them are way out of my price range. At least, with the WB8, I can still row for exercising, and work on some sailing, too.

I've got the boat on hold. And the price is right. Just have to find time to go pick it up. That, and hoping there are no major problems. Since it's pretty much plastic, can't imagine it having any serious problems. But if anyone knows of any major probs with this boat, your input is welcomed!


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

shadowraiths said:


> Okay, you guys talked me into trading up... sorta. I've put my dinghy up for sale and in the mean time am gonna pick up a walker bay that is rigged out for sailing (_and rowing, of course_). Still no motor. Which is exactly like I want it.


Sounds like a good idea! Definately don't get a motor unless you want to give up rowing. I think most people find that it's just too easy to be lazy if you have a motor and not row. Ever seen someone drive from one side of the strip mall to the other?  Without the motor, you can continue to enjoy rowing, and I bet you'll like the walker's rowing and sailing abilities and you won't miss much about your inflatable.

MedSailor


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## mark2gmtrans (May 14, 2013)

Alex W said:


> Given the interest in rowing and sailing I think you might like a sailing tender. I have a Dyer Dhow Midget, which is quite small and simple. There are plenty of examples in the 10' range that are better sailboats (with supported masts and sometimes even a jib). I'm surprised not to see many of these on SF Craigslist, they are common on the Seattle one. Here is an example of a larger one:
> 11' Ranger Sailboat
> 
> or a smaller one:
> ...


I was going to say the same thing, the sailing dinghy,skiff, or whatever you want to call it that you can row with oarlocks and nice long wooden oars with a 2HP Honda would be just about perfect. If you set it up right you can tow it behind you and use it to explore. the other option that comes to mind is one of the kayaks or canoes that you would be able to haul aboard. As for your inflatable, you could use the same little light weight Honda on it and you would haul the Honda and mount and lock it, store the inflatable on the deck when sailing.

I know I used to have a kayak and an inflatable, I used both quiet a lot when I was sailing, and yes I am a lot bigger than shadowwraith is, and able to haul crap onto and off the boat more easily, but if you have trouble lifting things you can rig something from the boom or get a set of davits to hang it off.

Sounds like you are having fun.


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## shadowraiths (Nov 2, 2011)

MedSailor said:


> Definately don't get a motor unless you want to give up rowing.


Exactly. I think it would be too easy for me to justify using the motor if it was there. Besides, I wouldn't get to see these guys...








... if I were making all sorts of noise with a motor. So, best to avoid the temptation, altogether. lol



MedSailor said:


> I bet you'll like the walker's rowing and sailing abilities and you won't miss much about your inflatable.


I think I will, too. I am quite excited. Have arranged to have it delivered next Friday afternoon. The guy even offered to show me how to sail it. Have also sold my inflatable. Oh and. Am going out sailing tomorrow. Stars must be aligned! Not that I actually believe that stuff... but... what can I say?

Life is good!


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## Catigale (Jun 30, 2013)

If you enjoy rowing get a small hard dinghy in the 9-10 foot range and your life will change. You can row against that current or wind and put real hardware and oars on her

You can find a good used one for about 500 USD if you hunt a bit.

10 feet will still car top or deck on a small cruising sailboat.


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## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

Shadow;

Kudos for sticking to your guns re: row vs motor. My boat buddy insists that I use/need a motor on my 9' RIB. Hell !! I *enjoy* paddling about the marina in it. I even tried to sail it with a (much more primitive) rig that that shown...just for S&Gs 
I am seriously considering a smaller hard-shell, tho. As much as I'd luv ta build a sweet little cockleshell; there's not enuff time to sail/maintain the mother ship AND craft a dink.
Anyone in the N. Chessie wanna swap a hard dink for a Caribe 9X? 

Best,
Paul


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## jeffreyosborne90 (Jun 30, 2013)

I would alwsys go with a low hp motor


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Am thinking about building a hard rowing dinghy, maybe a nesting dinghy to replace my rubber ducky. I like the idea that the RIB can be deflated and stowed for long trips. It also rows quite nicely...BUT not like a well designed rowing hull like a Whitehall or Adirondack Guideboat or similar hull shape. Something like a Dyer dink shape is very seaworthy and would be great except for the weight. Does anyone have a hard dink that is seaworthy, slips through the water nicely, and is light enough to drag aboard without a major block and tackle operation?

I built a (plywood core) stitch and glue pram style dink a couple of years ago but it is neither very light nor is it very stable and seaworthy. It's ok to get from boat to shore on Lake Champlain in a protected spot but I would not trust it in a following sea on salt water or bring it cruising. 

I'd like to lay up a very light foam core via stitch and glue and then cover with Kevlar, emulating the construction of some ridiculously light whitewater racing canoes I've had. The last 18' Sawyer weighed in at something like 45#. A boat as small as a dink, say 8', constructed with these ultra-light materials shouldn't weigh more than about 40#. I just need a design so as not to reinvent the wheel.


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## jeffreyosborne90 (Jun 30, 2013)

Sounds like a good way to design a lightweight boat and save some money


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Every year some one gets in to trouble out here where the trades blow trying to row an inflateable upwind.


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## shadowraiths (Nov 2, 2011)

smurphny said:


> I'd like to lay up a very light foam core via stitch and glue and then cover with Kevlar, emulating the construction of some ridiculously light whitewater racing canoes I've had. The last 18' Sawyer weighed in at something like 45#. A boat as small as a dink, say 8', constructed with these ultra-light materials shouldn't weigh more than about 40#. I just need a design so as not to reinvent the wheel.


These seem pretty interesting and similar to what you're talking about.

Dinghy plans for the spatially challenged

They're crazy light.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

shadowraiths said:


> These seem pretty interesting and similar to what you're talking about.
> 
> Dinghy plans for the spatially challenged
> 
> They're crazy light.


Thanks for the link. Those fabric boats are interesting but don't look durable enough. They're probably suitable for calm harbors. I am looking for a hull design to lay up in kevlar, a super tough, light fabric that is commonly used in whitewater boats. These river craft take a real beating. Polyester resin and standard mat/cloth are certainly plenty strong but the thickness required to attain adequate rigidity and strength results in a lot of weight. Kevlar can be laid up thinner because it is much stronger than traditional glass fiber. Marine Composites | DuPont? Kevlar®If the pram design were more seaworthy, it could probably be built light enough with these kinds of materials but I'm looking for a hull design that rows really well.


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## shadowraiths (Nov 2, 2011)

smurphny said:


> Thanks for the link. Those fabric boats are interesting but don't look durable enough. They're probably suitable for calm harbors. I am looking for a hull design to lay up in kevlar, a super tough, light fabric that is commonly used in whitewater boats. These river craft take a real beating. Polyester resin and standard mat/cloth are certainly plenty strong but the thickness required to attain adequate rigidity and strength results in a lot of weight. Kevlar can be laid up thinner because it is much stronger than traditional glass fiber. Marine Composites | DuPont? Kevlar®If the pram design were more seaworthy, it could probably be built light enough with these kinds of materials but I'm looking for a hull design that rows really well.


Great points. And yes, while they're pretty and light, I agree. They do not seem to be something that would work well in anything other than very protected waters.


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## copacabana (Oct 1, 2007)

smurphny said:


> Am thinking about building a hard rowing dinghy, maybe a nesting dinghy to replace my rubber ducky. I like the idea that the RIB can be deflated and stowed for long trips. It also rows quite nicely...BUT not like a well designed rowing hull like a Whitehall or Adirondack Guideboat or similar hull shape. Something like a Dyer dink shape is very seaworthy and would be great except for the weight. Does anyone have a hard dink that is seaworthy, slips through the water nicely, and is light enough to drag aboard without a major block and tackle operation?
> 
> I built a (plywood core) stitch and glue pram style dink a couple of years ago but it is neither very light nor is it very stable and seaworthy. It's ok to get from boat to shore on Lake Champlain in a protected spot but I would not trust it in a following sea on salt water or bring it cruising.
> 
> I'd like to lay up a very light foam core via stitch and glue and then cover with Kevlar, emulating the construction of some ridiculously light whitewater racing canoes I've had. The last 18' Sawyer weighed in at something like 45#. A boat as small as a dink, say 8', constructed with these ultra-light materials shouldn't weigh more than about 40#. I just need a design so as not to reinvent the wheel.


Smurphy, I went through the same thought process a while back. I wanted to build a decent nesting dinghy that rowed well, could carry 3 or 4 adults and that was stable and not too heavy. I thought about using divinycell sheets for stitch and glue construction. A former member here pointed out that I probably wouldn't save any weight since the divinycell sheets had to be saturated with resin and sheathed with cloth inside and out. It seems that quality thin 4mm or 6mm ply has a lot going for it in both weight, stiffness and strength. Long story short, I searched around for plans and found Danny Greene's Chameleon, a 10ft nesting dinghy that weighs 100lbs, rows and tows well and is very stable. I'm actually building it right now and the design is very nice. I wouldn't say it's the easiest dinghy to build (it has a bow locker, aft buoyancy tanks and other fiddly things to build), but it is well within the abilities of an amateur builder. I wanted to reduce the weight a little so I used slightly thinner ply (but quality Brazilian hardwood marine stuff) and slightly lighter cloth. I'm hoping it will weight 80 to 90 pounds when finished. This means each section will be a very manageable 40 to 45 pounds to raise on deck and lower into the water. My stupid inflatable must weigh this much...


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

copacabana said:


> Smurphy, I went through the same thought process a while back. I wanted to build a decent nesting dinghy that rowed well, could carry 3 or 4 adults and that was stable and not too heavy. I thought about using divinycell sheets for stitch and glue construction. A former member here pointed out that I probably wouldn't save any weight since the divinycell sheets had to be saturated with resin and sheathed with cloth inside and out. It seems that quality thin 4mm or 6mm ply has a lot going for it in both weight, stiffness and strength. Long story short, I searched around for plans and found Danny Greene's Chameleon, a 10ft nesting dinghy that weighs 100lbs, rows and tows well and is very stable. I'm actually building it right now and the design is very nice. I wouldn't say it's the easiest dinghy to build (it has a bow locker, aft buoyancy tanks and other fiddly things to build), but it is well within the abilities of an amateur builder. I wanted to reduce the weight a little so I used slightly thinner ply (but quality Brazilian hardwood marine stuff) and slightly lighter cloth. I'm hoping it will weight 80 to 90 pounds when finished. This means each section will be a very manageable 40 to 45 pounds to raise on deck and lower into the water. My stupid inflatable must weigh this much...


The plywood seems to be the greatest percentage of weight in the usual stitch & glue process. What I'm thinking of doing is using 1/4" polyisocyanurate foam (if I can find it that thin) to establish a shape. With a couple of layers of Kevlar over exterior and interior, using some large, taped corner fillets, it should be possible to build an extremely light and strong boat. As in the Adirondack Guideboats, which were designed to carry for miles through the woods, caned seats would also reduce weight.

I may just try this using the pram I mentioned above as a plug, eliminating the need for a core except for the transom.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

smurphny said:


> Thanks for the link. Those fabric boats are interesting but don't look durable enough. They're probably suitable for calm harbors. I am looking for a hull design to lay up in kevlar, a super tough, light fabric that is commonly used in whitewater boats. These river craft take a real beating. Polyester resin and standard mat/cloth are certainly plenty strong but the thickness required to attain adequate rigidity and strength results in a lot of weight. Kevlar can be laid up thinner because it is much stronger than traditional glass fiber. Marine Composites | DuPont? Kevlar®If the pram design were more seaworthy, it could probably be built light enough with these kinds of materials but I'm looking for a hull design that rows really well.


I don't think you'll find a sweeter design than a Spindrift...

spindrift

I (over)built one about 10 years ago, so it came in a bit heavier than intended... If I were to do it again, I'd seriously consider using a lighter weight material called Coosa, instead of plywood...

Coosa Composites, LLC - Manufacture of high-density, fiberglass-reinforced polyurethane foam panels

After a trip south one winter, I quickly came to appreciate the downsides of a hard dink for a boat the size of mine... I wound up purchasing an Avon Lite RIB with a folding transom at that year's Miami Boat show, and have never looked back, it's the best all around compromise for me...

I still have the Spindrift, and use it on occasion when I'm just going out on the bay for an overnight, or a weekend, and will simply be towing it... For extended cruising and passagemaking on a boat as small as mine, however, I think hard dinks represent way too much drama bringing back aboard, and stowing...

Sure, it rows very nicely... but in anything other than a flat calm, it can quickly become a VERY wet boat... My girlfriend hated it, and as far as load-carrying capacity, it was minimal compared to an inflatable...

The amount of time spent re-launching and assembling the 2 pieces was always longer than expected, and could be a real PITA... As a result, I often wound up towing it, when prudence might have dictated shipping it back on deck would have been the more seamanlike option... Having said that, it does tow beautifully, and effortlessly...

It's really the stowage on deck that became the problem, for me... Despite it's compact size, it still represented a HUGE box on my foredeck underway, and obscured the visibility from the cockpit to a considerable extent... In a real blow offshore, I'd be very concerned about a boarding wave sweeping the foredeck, and the dink taking lifelines, stanchions, and who knows what else with it over the side...

Again, for one cruising in more protected waters, say the Chesapeake, or the mid-coast of Maine, it could make a a more suitable tender... but if you're going offshore and need to bring it back aboard, I think you need a mother ship of at least 40 feet or more to make these things work...

Others' mileage may vary, of course...

With just the bow section on deck, not too bad... Fit the stern section on top of it, whole different ballgame... Plus, it just really looked _STUPID_ sitting up there, my inflatable stowed on deck is WAY less obtrusive... (grin)


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Yeah, I'd really like to avoid a two piece. I wonder if the Spindrift would work at 8' which would fit ahead of my mast and leave a little room to be able to do silly things like raise sails. Looks like a nice hull design.


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## shadowraiths (Nov 2, 2011)

Some pix from yesterday's sail.


















​


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

FWIW, I chose to power my little inflatable "dinghy in a bag" with an electric trolling motor. Everyone has tradeoffs to make on their specific boat and motoring needs. In my case, I had no place secure to keep a gas powered moter except in the cabin, and I did not want gasoline down there. The electric trolling motor and battery both store safety down below (as does the dinghy when it's deflated). Also I'm cheap, and found the trolling motor for $80 and already have a couple spare group 24 batteries in my basement for driving sump pumps and starting my Trophy boat during the 1-2 weeks a year that I use it on vacation. This dinghy will get very infrequent use (once or twice a year), so for <$200 total it will have to be good enough for me. If I were a serious cruiser with a larger boat I'd get a more serious dinghy and outboard.

In addition, for the inflatable that I have, even though it's rated for 2.5 HP outboard with the motor mount, I felt it was safer to have the weight of the battery contained within the boat itself instead of the weight+torque of an outboard hanging off the transom. A steady 30 lb thrust should be enough to get this lightweight boat most anywhere in protected waters, and won't cause the flotation tubes to collapse under the pressure.

Weather lately has been terrible, so I've had to work in between rainstorms. All I've been able to do so far is attach the registration numbers to the boat (each one had to be attached with Krazy Glue because they didn't want to stick to the fabric) and install the motor mount. I hope to test it all out this weekend.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I had a few minutes between thunderstorms yesterday evening to place the battery and trolling motor on the raft and ride around a few of the local marinas. I confirmed that the dinghy has enough speed to make headway against the local current, which is obviously very important.

After an hour of motoring around the area, I packed up the motor and battery in the cabin and was done for now. I checked the voltage on the battery afterwards, and it barely dropped at all.

There's a nice little cove about 5 miles upriver with a restaurant (upscale internal restaurant and casual patio dining). We've bene there before by car, but with this little dink we'll be able to anchor in the cove and make it to shore without getting all hot and sweaty.

Between that and the occasional long weekend on the upper Bay, I expect we'll get some occasional use out of this makeshift dinghy.


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## shadowraiths (Nov 2, 2011)

Sold my RU Sunday. The Walker Bay 8, with newbie sail rig, was delivered today. Spent the afternoon cleaning her, hitting WM, and making her ready to take out tomorrow.

:thewave:​
Still do not plan to get a motor though.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

Good for you. You don't need a motor on a hard dinghy. We've rowed for decades of coastal sailing(from Candada to the Bahamas).

It's good excercise(rowers arms don't do the double wave), it's a simple system that doesn't break(check your locks and oars regularly), it's clean and green and best of all, rowing is a pleasant experience on the water, you can't get with a motor.


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