# Sailing the Great Lakes in Fall--How late?



## cheapboxofwine (Jun 6, 2007)

Starting Fall 2007, our family intends to sail the Great Lakes all the way over to the ICW. We will start in Bayfield, WI on Lake Superior and work our way East through the Great Lakes. Can you experienced folks please advise how late in the season we can travel before the conditions become inadvisable? We were thinking of starting mid-Oct. because of things that need to be done. Please advise. Thanks.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Ooooo that's getting late and iffy.
That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed
When the gales of November came early.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

USCGRET1990 said:


> Ooooo that's getting late and iffy.
> That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed
> When the gales of November came early.


The Edmund Fitzgerald went down on Nov. 10th to be exact. I'd say mid Oct. is too late to be getting started. Most of the harbors in my area close between the 15th of Oct and the end of Oct. Getting fuel, etc... may be tricky if you start running into places with the sidewalks rolled-up. I try to leave my boat in til the last minute of the season, but if I get good weather and decent wind anywhere near mid Oct. I'm outta there. You could wait a long time for a weather window that time of year. That being said there are years when you can sail right up to Thanksgiving, but I wouldn't bet on that.


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## Gary M (May 9, 2006)

If you made it to Lake Huron by early to mid October you might be OK weather wise. Actually after Superior, Erie is probably the longest haul. You are going to have to be prepared for straight runs down the lakes when the weather looks good typically 36 hour runs.

However I assume you are doing the Erie Barge canal? The locks and bridges may be closed for the season, that is pretty late. I would check on that first. 

Gary


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## tommyt (Sep 21, 2002)

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here. If your objective is to just get there it can be done. However, you are missing the whole point in my mind. You are looking at about a 1000 miles just getting to the ICW, and then you will have to push down it to stay ahead of the weather. Why not just ship the boat?

September and October are the best kept secret in the north, but you need to be prepared for it. Diesel is very hard to find on the water after 10-15 in the north. After November 1, forget it till late April unless you are carrying jerry jugs from a truck stop somewhere. 

If your boat is in Bayfield you must have an idea of that time of year in Superior. Would you take a two week cruise at the end of October? I don't think so!


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Start now.


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## cheapboxofwine (Jun 6, 2007)

Thanks for all the great replies. Looks like from your experience, we should get going a couple of weeks earlier than planned. It looks like it's a good idea to be out of the Great Lakes by end of Sept. or first week Oct. The crew taking the boat through the Lakes will consist of a group of fairly hearty North Sea sailors (which includes my husband) so cold weather and elements shouldn't be a problem, however, it's great understanding availability of diesel and marinas etc.

All additional thoughts are much appreciated!

Assuming we make it to NYC by late October, will that be a late start going down the ICW? If so, please send links to qualified, cheap shipping companies!


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Cheap...I would leave NYC by 10/1 as the weather starts getting rough and the temps pretty cold offshore after that. You want to be in the Chesapeake by around 10/15. NYC to Chesapeake is a minimum of 5 days...weather permitting. 
We left the Chesapeake one year on 11/15 and froze our butts off for 2 weeks...so it can be done but I do not recommend it especially w/ kids.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Some folks to check out, just incase:
Boat Transport, Boat Shipping, Boat Hauling - boats.com
DAS Auto Shippers on eBay


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Mid-October is about a month late. Lake Ontario boat clubs start hauling between Oct. 15-30, and supplies are going to dry up close to the water by then. If you are leaving via Oswego, check the end of season date for that transit, and work backwards. Remember you've got to factor in two half-days for hauling the mast down and up on that route.

We sail as late as mid-November (we were hauled privately last year), but we only cruise to mid-October away from Toronto. I would say that if you exited the Welland Canal into Lake Ontario by October 10, you would have plenty of time to get to NYC by Oct. 15., but as Cam said, you are going to have some crappy and possibly stormy weather going south to the Chesapeake in the following 10 days. The good news is that the October sailing on Lakes Erie and Ontario, while tending to be windy and sometimes cool, is frequently glorious and full of "single reef and a No. 3" reaching.

As for leaving from Lake Superior, I wouldn't be on that beast much after Sept. 15.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Leave now.


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

The Erie Canal usually closes on Nov 15th - earlier if there's ice.


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## doffe (Aug 7, 2007)

*Thanks for the good advice!*

So we took your advice and got out of Lake Superior by the end of september. I am the Swedish dude married to cheapboxofwine. I sailed Lake Superior, the North Channel and Georgian Bay with a good friend and had a great sail to arrive in Midland, ON to go through the Trent Severn. We need 5.5 feet and I had called ahead a couple of times to check and to get "approval" as the controlling depth is supposed to be 6 feet. Unfortunately, the "6 feet" channel leading into the first lock was at best VERY NARROW. We got through but only with some seriously chattered nerves and after having hit a few times. We locked through, but the lockmaster at the second lock (Big Chute) was not keen on letting us continue. Apparantly they have some stretches with very little water (sounds like 5 feet may be a more realistic draught at this time). Anyone heading this way should check in very carefully with the powers that be.

We ended up trucking Windfall (a Storebro Royal 33) to Annapolis and after some sightseeing and wheather delays we are now heading south. We are right now in Deltaville and heading for Hampton tomorrow morning.

Thanks again.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Doffe...just so you know...if you were planning to take Dismal Swamp canal route south after Norfolk, the canal is closed. You need to take the eastern route down to Coinjock and then either the Alligator River route or the Pamlico Sound route to Oriental/Beaufort etc. ....north end of Alligator River is a bit tricky...note this post from Brak from last week:
*
I did get grounded 2 days ago at the entrance to Alligator river. I heeded the advice on marker 3 (marker 3 has been moved well WEST of marker #1 and a bit south)and that part went fine. And just when I thought everything is fine, past last marker there the depth started going up real fast  So, I figured we strayed too far left (there is a shallow spot to the east of last green marker past shoal, 7 I beleive). Turned more to the right and - whoops, there it was. So we got lots and lots of lumps on the keel, but fortunately the engine got us off of there.

So, to everyone - be careful, that marker G3 is not the end of the story. Where the chart shows 5 feet east of green 7 is not too shallow, but just south of red 8 (again, from memory,numbers might be off) the shoal continues down to about 3-4ft.*

Good luck!


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Cam, I have never transited the ICW before, but I seriously wonder if it's worth the bother with stories like this. Parts of it seem indifferently maintained and I instinctively prefer the idea of just heading out to sea rather than tip-toeing under diesel power through "the ditch".


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

You sail until the water becomes ultra hard then you put runners on the boat and do some Ice boating.

Note: I have found here in the Gulf that some bouys are moved by barges or by Shrimpers whose gear gets entangled with the bouys. Seen a few day marks knocked over by tugs pushing a six pack or more.


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## Diva27 (Nov 2, 2007)

For what it's worth, our club, Midland Bay sailing Club, is on southeastern Georgian Bay. We schedule two haulouts, the last being October 20. Half the club chooses the earlier haulout, in late September. When I moved here 12 years ago on Nov 1, it was snowing, and didn't stop snowing till April. Winters vary, but basically October is a hit and miss month for boating, and you have to be awfully dedicated to want to sail in November.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

And yet I hauled in Toronto last year on November 13, in 10 C weather. This year, Oct. 19 (at my club...I paid a lot to haul later at a marina in 2006) and we've had a lot of cold rain. Today I saw a solid-looking sloop coming in through the Western Gap, and I have a friend with a steel boat who has gone out on New Year's Day on Lake Ontario...crunch, crunch...

Local conditions are ridiculously variable, but the insurance usually ends November 30, so that is the prime factor in haulouts or tying up to a winter dock with bubblers.


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## Diva27 (Nov 2, 2007)

Valiente said:


> And yet I hauled in Toronto last year on November 13, in 10 C weather. This year, Oct. 19 (at my club...I paid a lot to haul later at a marina in 2006) and we've had a lot of cold rain. Today I saw a solid-looking sloop coming in through the Western Gap, and I have a friend with a steel boat who has gone out on New Year's Day on Lake Ontario...crunch, crunch...
> 
> Local conditions are ridiculously variable, but the insurance usually ends November 30, so that is the prime factor in haulouts or tying up to a winter dock with bubblers.


Was driving home from a run into town today, looked out on Midland harbour, and there was a sloop in the 35-foot range, main and genny drawing, tramping along. And there's snow on the ground south of here in Barrie.


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## doffe (Aug 7, 2007)

*Alligator River*

Thanks Cam:

I have the new NOAA charts which shows the change, but out of 4 boats coming through at the same time I think I was the only one. Everyone got through after some radio chatter.

Now in Bellhaven, NC. One of my alternators would not stop charging and almost cooked my starter batteries so we ended up with an unscheduled stop at Alligator River marina (Miss Wanda was very helpful in getting me a ride to NAPA for some parts). Still need a new alternator and am looking to find a new one in Oriental or in Beaufort.

As for Lake Superior, North Channel and Georgian Bay in late September - It seems you have most of it for yourself! Except for a few locations (Marquette and Midland believe) we saw maybe two sail boats in Lake Superior, one in North Channel and one or two in Georgian Bay (lots of boat around Midland though. It also seemed that almost all of the marinas had or where closing down.

That being said, the sailing was super and the scenery was fantastic.

So far the ICW has not posed any problems though I am not looking forward having to plan for tide to avoid the shallow spots.

Mattias


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