# PLEASE! Help Me Decide: MacGregor 25 or 26S



## Lomcevak (Jul 25, 2013)

*PLEASE! Buying Advice: MacGregor 25 or 26S*

Edited...see below.


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## Lomcevak (Jul 25, 2013)

Greetings, All! This is my first post to the forum.

I've been yearning to get into sailing for several years, and I'm finally in the position of considering purchasing a boat.

After having learned a bit I was really keen on getting a MacGregor 26S (or D) for the fact that it was light to trailer. I am NOT interested in the "motor sailor" version.

My limitations are: I wanted it to be light enough to tow with a 1993 Mazda MPV (about 3500 lbs is the max I wanted to tow, but would have preferred much lighter). And secondly, I wanted to not have to spend more than about $6000.00.

I have seen 3 MacGregor 26S's (all early 90's models) here in B.C. that are all asking about $6500 to $8000. But the one that may actually move to buy is a 1983 MacGregor 25.

This particular Mac25's hull appears to be in GREAT condition. The gelcoat in the freeboard area (sorry don't know much terminology, yet) is original (though in need of a good cut-polish), but below the waterline has a recent anti-fouling on it so I can't see any previous damage. But what is really amazing is the deck: there are NO stress cracks around ANY of the stanchions, fittings, hardware, etc. and no 'crazing' in the outer hull (above the waterline - can't tell what's under the anti-fouling under the waterline) and no crazing or anything really untoward in the deck. The forward hatch has a bit of stress fracturing near the hinge line but THAT'S IT!!

The standing rigging looks like it's new - all shiny and everything, but has probably been on there for at least 3 years, or probably longer. The keel looks like it's in ok condition (just a bit of surface rust), but I don't know if it's cranking up and down properly.

The interior is appears to be mainly all stock (with one exception I'll get to in a bit). Again it LOOKS good, no cracks, crazing, or anything untoward. The wood trim that goes around the seam is pulled out in a couple places, but I don't think it's anything to worry about. Other than that all the fibreglass inside appears unstrained. Unfortunately both the floor AND the ceiling are covered in carpeting, so I can't see if there's any rot under the stanchions, etc. The only major concern inside the boat is that he has filled most nooks and crannies with blocks of styrofoam, but the real concern is that under the V-Berth he has used foam block filled to the top and then used expanding foam to completely fill it.

While that foam MAY be hiding something like damage, there is no way of knowing for sure. However, anywhere else that we could see to the inside bottom of the boat (is it all called the bilge, or is just a particular area called the bilge?) all the fibreglass appeared sound. Summary, the hull, to the best of my knowledge is in VERY good condition.

Maybe the thing that provides the most value for the boat is that it has a 2007 15 HP engine on it that he has assured is in very good working order. He added a SECOND engine mount on the right side to handle the larger engine, and he says the transom has 4 (or was it 3) extra layers of glass for strength.

It has several sails, all of which appear to be in good condition (one has just a few mildew spots along one edge). I think the jib may not be in the best condition, but whatever). The tiller, is in good condition, as is the rudder.

Now for the bad parts:

-All the wood bits on the deck are dried out and cracked and will need to be replaced in short order.
-I have no way of knowing if all the blocks, hardware, etc. are present.
-He claims that all the wiring for the lights is fine, but it didn't appear to be to me. It really seemed like it would have to be completely rewired.
-There is a VHF, but I doubt it works, and he also said that the antenna cable was broken.

The worst part: THE TRAILER.

While it is a dual axle, and is structurally sound, the wiring and lights are pretty much non-existent. But my BIGGEST concern is that it has electric brakes and he refuses to give any assurance that they are working. Also, at least 2 of the 4 tires need to be replaced.

So here it comes down to my question: Is this boat worth $4500?

I ask the question in light of the fact that even the 26s aren't selling for $6500.00 - $8000; boats which have been listed for 8 weeks, and have roller furlings, radios, are in ready to sail condition, etc. The 26s is a more attractive boat for me due to it's shallower draft and lighter weight. And that equates to easier, and likely MORE usage than the heavier Mac25.

I won't be towing much more than about 100km (60 miles) at a time, as I'm quite close to the coast. And I know from the MPV forum that the majority of guys were towing 3500 to 4000 lbs. and the vehicle has a rating of 4500 lbs. But will I be able to get it up the ramp at the boat launch?

The way I see it, I'd probably have to put $500 into the trailer and at least $1000 - $1500 to upgrade the electrical in the boat, and get a roller furling, fix the wood, etc. and all the work time involved to get it to be in the condition of the 26s boats I'm looking at. But, then, the hull is in such great condition, maybe it's worth it. But then I think even these newer -more desirable (to me, at least)- versions aren't even selling at the prices the guys are asking and I wonder if this guy is out to lunch at the price he's asking. And so the battle rages on in my mind. Are these guys unrealistic in the current market conditions asking the prices they're asking?

Please help me out with your thoughts. Thank you!


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## FinallySailing (Feb 12, 2013)

Hi,

and welcome to the forum. I do have a Macgregor 26S which I dearly love. But please don't in anyway think I am biased.

To my knowledge all of the Macgregors have foam flotation built in. Difficult to stay what was intended to be achieved by spraying in expanding foam by the current owner.

Try not to decide by looking through the "new boat goggles". A shiny hull with no spider cracks is great, but these are in no way anything dangerous or do impede the sailing performance. Think of the time and money you have to put in before you can go into the water. First of all the trailer. How are you going to move the boat from the seller to wherever you will want to fix her up. I take "refuses to give assurance that they are working" as a nice way to phrase that they are not working at all. So for the moment look at it that you don't have a trailer. Add costs for moving the boat or storage where she is located now to your expenses. You've already mentioned that you think the wiring of the boat needs redoing. Interestingly you also write that the seller states its ok. If it really is an obviously bad state then the seller might be hiding a few more things that he "thinks are fine". The VHF areal cable needs replacing. If the boat electrics aren't safe than the boat isn't either. Think about going onto the water without navigation lights, VHF, depth sounder etc. You also write that you don't know that all the blocks are available. Again, this may all quickly add up to lot of boat bucks and without the boat is not functional. The seller states that the engine is in good condition, do you have any proof he is right ? Any service records ? Have you had a chance to see the boat in the water, the engine running, the sails up ? If I remember right, the 25 has a metal keel. Is the lifting mechanism ok and what state is the keel itself in ? 
If you are really planning on buying the boat, you should ask a professional to survey the boat. Not sure how much that cost in your part of the world, though.
In summary, from your description, the seller wants $4500 for a shiny hull, that will not be able to be trailered and is not sailable or safe in the water. I'd stay away from it. 

There must be other Mac25 in your area in a better state that still are cheaper than the 26 classic or there must be some "classics" that have had a bit of neglect (i.e. are dirty but are otherwise sound) that you can get for a better price.


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## DearPrudence (Apr 8, 2013)

For what it's worth, we had a 1986 Mac 25 which we bought new and sailed in the Pamlico Sound. It was a great boat, fast and versatile. We paid $9,000 and sold it 10 years later for $4500. $4,500 still doesn't sound outrageous to me. I agree with previous poster that a survey should be done. It will help put your mind to ease. Our trailer was a single axle job which I towed with a 1979 Delta 88. (350 C.I.D.) When we moved to Ohio, I came up through the Allegheny Mountains. I never had a bit of trouble towing the boat, ever. Let us know which way you decide to go.
Jeff


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## Lomcevak (Jul 25, 2013)

FinallySailing,

Thank you for your well thought out response. As you may have surmised I am VERY new to sailing (though I learned a lot as a teenager sailing a Laser quite a few years ago). As a result of my inexperience it is very difficult for me to assess the state of the boat. My father did do fibreglass repair on boats at a boating store in my town for several years - MANY years ago. He came out to look at it, and feels that the hull is in very good condition; or "sound" as you would say. Though I'm not sure that when you used the word if you meant the hull itself, or everything overall.

I guess my point is, if the hull is in very good condition, then isn't that a great place to start? I mention that I don't know if all the blocks are available simply out of ignorance. I just don't have the knowledge to know what it all needs. I do kind of assume that they're all there, but I just can't say.

The boat is in a storage yard, where I might be able to work out to continue storing it there (at the lowest monthly rate I can find in the area, no less!). I'm not worried about rewiring the lights on the trailer, that's really not a big deal at all. The electric brakes, on the other hand, is a different story - I don't know anything about maintenance for them and I'll likely need to have a mechanic do the repair. (I have used a mobile RV mechanic in the past who is reliable, not necessarily cheap, but he'd fix it up). So, yeah, by the time I rewire the trailer, have the brakes repaired, and get new(er) tires, I'm probably up to about $500 bucks.

As for hidden issues, aside from under the V-Berth, and the carpeting and the ceiling liner, you can see a fair bit of the interior hull. Really, it's pretty spartan in there, not much to it; so can it really be hiding that much, can it?

In regards to the wiring, there's not much to it, either, is there? Cables going to the panel from the battery, and then from the panel to the, what, 4 lights? That should be pretty easy to fix up, no? I've got a good soldering iron.

And, no, there are no other Mac 25's or 26's within my province that I can find for any better price. In fact, other than a totally beat up one this is THE lowest price I could get for a Mac 25 or 26. I've contacted a number of sellers, and none of them are willing to drop to a reasonable price, and yet they are not selling their boats. Granted, I could wait until the winter, but I'm not likely to do that. The whole point is to be sailing this summer. I saw one 26 but he'd made so many hacked modifications that I didn't feel comfortable with it. Hard to explain, I guess "shoddy" modifications is more what I mean. And on that boat where all the access holes in the inner hull are for getting to the bolts on the outer hull, ALL the access holes had many (like six) cracks emanating from each hole. The other 26's are 5 hour drives away (with one involving a 2 hour, $70 - EACH WAY - ferry ride). Though one of them sounds in incredible condition, he actually RAISED his price during our discussions. I truly believe all these guys are going to be left holding their boats until the winter when (if) they drop their price.

Maybe it boils down to this: Do you think the hull and the 15HP engine warrant the price? Owner claimed he paid $3700 for the engine alone 3 years ago.


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## FinallySailing (Feb 12, 2013)

Lomcevak,

looking at the list of things that you know need doing, are you sure you'll manage to get it all done this summer to get her sailing this season ?

The engine, is it a two stroke or four stroke ? I just checked on the Yamaha website, they list the four stroke for CAN$ 3499. I guess that is without tax. Still, I am doubtful that the owner in 2011 paid the price of a new one for what was then a four year old engine. I just wonder if the vendor is quite truthful with his information.

Yamaha Motor Canada :: Products :: Outboard Motors :: 4-Stroke Portable :: F15

At the end, a boat is worth how much you are willing to pay for it. As long as it will provide you with the fun and excitement that you've hoped for and doesn't make you regret what could otherwise be the greatest and most exciting hobby ever.

Reading between the lines I guess, you've been seriously bitten by the boat buck. We've all found out things later after we've had the boat for a while that turn quickly into ever growing boat bills. Make sure you've got all the right documentation from the vendor including servicing, have a survey done and go for it if she is worth it to you. There is a big community to help you later on with advice how to fix things and how to learn getting her onto the water.

If you do go for a Macgregor, have a look at MacGregorSailors.com . You'll be able to find a lot of dedicated Maccers on there as well.

All the best,

FS


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

the motor is too big for the boat. 9.9 or less is sufficient 15 hp is just a waste of fuel.
the trailer is too big for the boat. Mac's typically trailer on single axle trailers.
You are paying, in this instance for stuff you don't need, and that you may need or want to replace. 

This is the first boat you have looked at. it shouldn't be the first boat you buy.

As mentioned above, don't wear boat goggles. Print out the inspection trip tips found at the top of the page here and use them. 



I advise you to change your approach. instead of replying to ads for boats for sale, post "Boat wanted" ads on craigslist and kijiji and the similar sources in your area. 

"Wanted: Macgregor 26D or 26S sailboat. Looking to sail now. Have cash. No projects Ph: Email:"

You will likely get a response for owners who haven't advertised their boats yet, and you may also get a repsonse from the sellers of the $6500 - $8000 boats... don't be afraid to see those boats, and don't be afraid to offer less than they are asking. the worst that can happen is they say "no."

if the boat has been on the market for a while and has had no action because it is overpriced, you might be surprised that the buyer is ready to consider a much lower offer.


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## Azzarac (Sep 30, 2011)

I usually agree with bljones, but in this case I defer (love your chronicles BTW). The 15 is a bit big for a 25 and probably accounts for about half of the asking price. That being said, I would much rather be over powered than under in an emergency situation. As for the trailer, Macs come with single axle trailers from the factory. If you plan on towing much, one of the first mods you do is to add another axle. Its just a good safety measure. As for the electric breaks, if the trailer hasn't moved in a while I don't blame him for not promising they will work. Most likely they are full of rust and will need maintenance. Personally, I would replace them with disk breaks regardless. Just a Mac owners .02 worth... Good luck on whatever you decide and welcome to the sailing community.


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## Lomcevak (Jul 25, 2013)

I was considering selling the motor for $2000 and getting a 9.9 for $1000.00. Does that sound reasonable? That way I'm now down to $3500. Yay or nay?


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Don't count on being able to sell the motor, or on picking one up at the price you've indicated. What if the motor turns out to have a burned out water pump and is only worth $300 in scrap/parts to someone?

I agree with the others, keep looking. Or, after doing an in-person inspection and careful review of the boat, look at the average selling prices on NADA, or ask BoatUS for an average selling price. Subtract off of that the cost of anything that might make the boat "below average," then make a low-ball offer and see what the seller will take. 

$6-8000 for that boat sounds really high to me, but I may be off.


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## Lomcevak (Jul 25, 2013)

Guys, thank you for the replies, but I'm even more confused, now.

Isn't it better to have a hull that is in "REALLY good" condition (not "very good", and certainly not "excellent") with hardware, and sails that are in "good" condition" with an engine that has a fairly high value. I would have thought that given the choice between a good hull with 'OK' hardware or a hull that's been beat to crap with a bunch of shiny new bits, the good hull would be the better choice.

The fellow did agree to "warranty" the engine (his word, not mine).

What do I really need to do to this boat?

Before it's ready to float:

1) $500 and 1 day for the trailer
2) 4 - 6 hours on wiring in the boat - maybe 8
3) 4 - 6 hours of cleaning


Before it's ready to sail:

4) Maybe nothing, though I do need to make a mast raising device

Winter projects:

5) 2 eight hour days of cut polishing
6) Wood components replaced (both interior and exterior)
7) Remove carpeting on the floor (and any glue, etc.)

I don't understand why people are saying "get a better boat". The boat IS in the best condition of any I've seen so far. No cracks, no fills, etc. and the engine I do believe to be in very good condition.

Bear in mind, guys, that almost everything up here across the border is more expensive than the U.S. Boats are easily $1000 - 1500 less in the states, and RVs are WAY WAY less.

Am I not correct with the following assumptions:

-A good hull: $2000 - 3000
-A crappy trailer: $500
-A good engine: $2000
-Good sails and hardware: $1000 - $2000

This comes out to $5500 - $7500 INDIVIDUALLY (it amazes me how when all put together the price plummets!).

Could I get a 26' MacGregor with everything ready to go, but the hull with a bunch of stress fractures, etc. for $6500? MAYBE. But guys are really in the $7000 - $8000 or more range, and WAY out of my short term budget.

So, I could be sailing with this one in about a weeks time for $5500 with all short term repairs, or not sail at all this season and wait for the prices to come down maybe $1000 bucks in the winter.

I do, however, LOUDLY lament that ALL the boats are unreasonably priced and, really, there is NOT much selection PROVINCE WIDE in terms of MacGregors. It should be a buyers market, but the sellers are holding out for more money until it's too late; then the boat deteriorates, further lowering the value, and the vicious cycle repeats.

As for the person who questioned the veracity of the seller's claims; he appeared to be the MOST truthful one. 3 out of 4 of them either made exaggerated claims, or outright lied. One guy appears to even attempting to defraud by claiming a "new sail" when he meant "new to him"!

It's been a little bit of a frustrating process, and I'm getting impatient. I want to sail NOW; not in October!


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## Lomcevak (Jul 25, 2013)

And I should add: this guy WILL NOT move off $4500.00


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## Lomcevak (Jul 25, 2013)

Hopefully after this post I'm qualified to ask for local assistance!


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Lomcevak said:


> It's been a little bit of a frustrating process, and I'm getting impatient. I want to sail NOW; not in October!


With all due respect, if this is true, you're better off waiting for the spring. In your current state, you're more likely to make a rash decision that you'll regret later.

If you're anything like me, my comments will go in one ear and out the other, but it had to be said! 

I know you mentioned wanting a Mac because it can be towed with your current vehicle. Do you really want a trailer sailor, or do you just like the mac because it can be towed by your car, and you think that will make life easier in the winter? Put another way, are you looking for something towable because you plan on taking it various places, or just because it's easier for winter storage?

If you're leaning toward towing for weekend at various "exotic" locales, do you understand what goes into rigging the Mac, the time involved, etc.? Are you OK with spending somewhere in the neighborhood of an hour setting her up every weekend/time you use her, and another hour on the back-end breaking her down?

If your goal truly is to find a moderately-sized boat that is towable by your vehicle, there may be other options, too. I'm not Mac bashing, mind you - that may well be the perfect boat for you. But have you considered other brands? It may be that something by another manufacturer that is a little smaller would meet your needs, and be more readily available in your area. Locking yourself into one manufacturer/make/model, especially in a first boat, seems like a bad idea to me.

Again, if you're like me, all of the above will be disregarded. So, assuming you're convinced that the boat MUST be the Mac, according to NADA, the average price of a 1993 Mac 26S near me (I'm just outside Philadelphia, PA) is $5500 USD. That includes the trailer and a working engine. Again, I'd suggest contacting NADA or BoatUS and getting averages for your area, if you can.

When you say "wood components replaced," are you talking about bulkheads, or "just" the teak? Have you priced that out? If it is bulkheads/cabinetry, have you done fiberglass work before? This can be an expensive project.

Since the boat is tralerable, have you considered coming down to the States and towing it/sailing it back? I don't know how the taxes would work, but in the end you may save yourself enough that it's worthwhile.

To your specific questions, yes, in general I'd lean toward a great hull with decent components over a decent hull with great components. But, you have to do the math as to the replacement cost of any of the components that are close to end of life. In some cases, it may be cheaper to rehab a hull than to replace the components.

Regarding the warranty, what do you really think that's worth? He has given you a verbal promise to do something that isn't conventional. If he reneges, what recourse will you have?

Regarding the wiring, I'd double your time estimate. For the polishing/compounding, I think you're looking at at least 2 days. It is exhausting work. I'm mid-40's and have shoulder issues, but I'm also dumb and power through things much longer than I should. When I re-did my Catalina 25 last spring, it was an 8 hour day just polishing one side, another 8 hour day polishing the other side, and then I still had to wax. I wouldn't count on doing that as two back-to-back days, unless you are young and in really good shape.

You also said "The way I see it, I'd probably have to put $500 into the trailer and at least $1000 - $1500 to upgrade the electrical in the boat, and get a roller furling, fix the wood, etc." A new roller furler alone will eat up more than half of that budget. If you're upgrading just the wires, you're probably OK for the electrical budget, but if you're putting in a new antenna and cable, new VHF, new GPS, etc., you're going to blow through that budget pretty quickly. And that doesn't even cover the wood "bits," some of which are necessary before you take her out on the water.

In the end, at the very least, get the guy to take you for a sail. Offer to pay him $100-$200 in earnest money (i.e., if you buy, it's credited toward the sale, otherwise he gets to keep it). If he says no, then there's yet another clue that there's a problem, and you should walk away.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

okay, buy the damn boat.
it's what you want to hear, and you don't seem to be listening to anything we have said anyway.


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## Lomcevak (Jul 25, 2013)

jimgo, very tactfully put!

The wood I was referring to was simply the teak, namely that which holds the door to the cabin in place.

A '93 26S is $5500. What about an '83 25 footer?

Perhaps a few other Canadians can pipe up, but I think (though I could be proven wrong) you'll find that our prices are quite a bit more. I just got in contact with a fellow who two years ago sold a '92 26S for $11000.00 here in B.C.!!!! 

No, I don't think it would be an enforceable warranty. But I do believe he was being honest about its' condition.

Why do I want a trailerable sailboat? Mainly because the cost of moorage is completely and totally prohibitive for me. Why a Mac? Because I believe the 26S or 26D is the lightest larger boat I can get that MIGHT be remotely within my price range. I looked at an O'day 21 or 23 (can't remember right now) and it was just too small... you could only move around by sliding along the benches on your bum. At least with the 25' I only have to slightly bend over. I'm hoping the 25' is only a bit heavier than the 26S. But, yes, the capabilities of my tow vehicle are a huge determining factor. There are only a few launches locally and any others would be a VERY expensive ferry ride. An hour would be about the most I'd want it to take to ready the boat, but hey, my radio control airplane takes even longer! As for buying south of the border...won't have a passport (required, now) for at least a couple more months.

I'm not necessarily "locked" into the Mac, but what else fits my criteria?


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Nice RC airplanes- too bad they don;t float 
I am Canadian.
I have always felt BC prices were crazy. but as long as you all get impatient and pay them, they stay crazy.
In any event comparing prices from 2 years ago to today is a fools game- the market is soft, and not hardening up anytime soon. 
Any Mac priced over $5k will be sitting on the market for a while.
Seriously, $4500 for a Mac?
Keep looking, and be proactive.
Alternatives?
Well,
Tanzer 22, Sirius 22, Catalina 25, ensenada, balboa 26...


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## Lomcevak (Jul 25, 2013)

bljones said:


> Nice RC airplanes- too bad they don;t float


Actually, that's the next step with that plane! Btw, that's a 12 FOOT wingspan!

I'll look at these other boats. I'm assuming they're all light enough and trailerable?



> Seriously, $4500 for a Mac?


 You should've seen the absolute dumper of an '83 Mac 25 in Chilliwack. Guy plastered on the "anti-fouling" to hide all the problems he could! And he wanted $3500 for it!

I know you say $4500 is high for a Mac. But doesn't that engine count for anything in your assessment?


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## FinallySailing (Feb 12, 2013)

Lomcevak said:


> I know you say $4500 is high for a Mac. But doesn't that engine count for anything in your assessment?


Have you seen the engine work ? No, then don't assume anything


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

OK, a few links for you:
New Car Prices and Used Car Book Values - NADAguides - put in zip code 06512, that's part of Connecticut. A fair bit of disposable income, so prices should be higher there than here.

Sailboats for sale from Sailing Texas, buy or sell your sailboat, free sailboat ads. - great photo gallery so you can see what different makes/models look like, and how they have changed over the years.

Sailboatdata.com is the worlds largest sailboat database. - great resource for all kinds of information about almost every kind of sailboat.

Sailboat Listings - sailboats for sale - good resource for finding boats for sale near you. Just pay attention to the listing date, they don't appear to delete listings until the seller does, and many sellers forget.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Also, when you look at the weights on Sailboat Data, remember to add in another 800-1000 lbs for the trailer, and at least another several hundred pounds for your "stuff", including the engine, fuel, water, etc. When you do that, I don't think a C25 is going to work for you.

I'll add the Catalina 22 and Hunter 22 to Jones' list. I'd also look at a West Weight Potter. The WWP isn't the worlds best-sailing boat, but it has a huge fan club and might just meet your stated needs.

The big selling point for the Mac's is, as you've said, their LOA to weight ratio, and many, many people love them. But in the end, if that's the only boat that fits your needs (i.e., is towable by your car), you might want to look into the cost of renting a vehicle to tow the boat, or buying a beater vehicle to do the towing. That might increase your options considerably, and then you won't be paying over-inflated prices.


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## rudeboy (Jul 28, 2013)

Holy...

There has been lots of good advice provided to the original poster. I think I like the one that went something like '...go and buy the damn boat... it's what you want to hear...'. That made me chuckle since I got the same impression. However, with such doubt/trepidation in existence, I think the message is '... pass on it... you WILL find what you're looking for... eventually...'.

Anyway, I'm a British Columbian living in the Kootenays (Lake). I've only sailed twice and always wanted to pursue it but was never in a position until now as I'm single, balding, childless and, for better or worse, middle-aged. I ended up buying a 1994 MAC 26s (for way more than it was worth). The most embarrassing part is that while it was, generally, water-worthy I haven't sailed her yet as I have been rebuilding it (for two years now with a third before I get there). When I say 'rebuild', I mean replacing everything but the hull, spars and railing (the remaining original parts on the trailer are the frame and guide posts). I guess, in my case, I've become a little obsessed.

During all this time, I have cruised the internet on a weekly basis looking for tips, deals, know-how, etc., which is how I came across this thread. I even have a stash of 'canned' searches for my convenience. What I've found, is that there are always deals out there for Macs (even in BC/Alberta) and would agree with one poster's comment re: placing a 'wanted' ad to elicit responses from current owners. Prevailing US prices seem to be in the $4500 - $8500 range (more or less).

Let me reiterate, I have almost, literally, replaced the entire boat - from sails to rudder/keel to electrical/electronics to rubrail to rigging/lines to propulsion to plumbing to you-name-it. While I can't provide a single reliable piece of advice on sailing a boat, I (and anyone else) can provide some idea of the amount of money you will likely spend after the fact no matter what you acquire. There are always additions/improvements desired, if not needed. I'm mindful that the original poster has a limited budget but boating, while not the 'sport of kings', is a very expensive past time to become involved in. As an aside, since I've replaced everything, I have a boatload of spares (these I can part with or keep). I sold the original motor (Tohatsu 9.9 w/tank) for $600 then bought a Honda 9.9 long shaft (for a little over $3000 new) - wouldn't consider anything larger for this boat. I even removed the bulkhead and replaced it with SS tubing (with various reinforcements) and curtains. The head is enclosed in a folding cover and this opened up the interior plus provided a place to keep things like a Yeti cooler, etc. I could go on and on...

To summarize, the OP is approaching this with caution and circumspection as well as conferring in forums for advice (all good). However, please re-read what people are saying. As per my first paragraph, it seems there is a predetermined decision (forgive my presumptuousness) but consider looking some more and, while there is the odd 'chestnut' out there, expect to raise your bottom line a little so you're not so confined in your choice. It may be that you will have to forego this season for next and, in doing so, you can pad your fund and perhaps even discover that elusive 'deal'.


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## Lomcevak (Jul 25, 2013)

Well, well, well….I guess it's been a while!

For some reason I hadn't been alerted to when this topic had new posts. So here we are a year and a half later, and here's what's transpired…

1) I did not buy a boat that season.
2) I got a 26D the next season (summer of 2014)
3) EVERYTHING takes WAY more time than you'd expect.
4) EVERYTHING takes WAY more money than you'd expect or want!
5) Everyone was right about waiting. If you think something's going to take a bit of work to correct, it's probably going to take about 20 times that estimate.
6) I may or may not have been able to tow a 25 with my vehicle (early 90's model Mazda MPV), but definitely wouldn't have been able to stop it without electric brakes.
7) Towing the 26D wasn't too bad with the MPV -until a vehicle as big as a pickup or bigger went blasting by- then things would start to oscillate. Braking was surprisingly not bad either, despite NO brake system at all on the trailer. I just drove EXTREMELY conservatively, and left miles of room for braking. Never had a problem pulling the boat up the ramp, either, despite being a two-wheel drive. (Rear wheel drive.)
8) Yes, my vehicles towing ability was a determining factor in my choice of boats. But the MPVs are notoriously bad for their transmissions, so mine went again a few months after the summer. I now have a Sequoia with an 8-Cylinder, so will have no problems at all towing the boat. And it's got 4WD - whoohoo!
9) Yes, another main reason for towing was to avoid moorage fees.
10) I find even a 26 footer to be barely big enough to move around in, or on the top deck. No room for a 

11) The 26D is in fairly sound condition, needs new sails, particularly the main. The genoa is ok, but I've pulled the grommet out of the (clew?) trailing edge corner.
12) The motor wasn't worth it - ended up spending about $500.00 getting it serviced, and still doesn't run great. But it is electric start, and supposedly is supposed to charge the battery, but doesn't seem to be doing much of a job of it. After several hours of running it didn't put much back in the battery.
13) Cushions were all mildewy, and fabric is in need of replacing.
14) I spent days and days and days cleaning inside - took a sprayer filled with bleach water and hooked it up to a 600psi pump and sprayed every surface inside (bilge?, and everything). Don't worry, used two industrial blowers, to move the air, and held my breath.
15) Rewired everything to the fuse panels.
16) I replaced all the lines.
17) Bought a few pieces of hardware.
18) Rejuvenated all the exterior wood bits. (Step and ladder, tiller arm, etc.)
19) Bought brand new foam for the forward berth, and the two long cockpit cushions.
20) And who knows what else? Sailing suit, fire extinguisher, tank plumBing, flares and on and on and on…
21) I paid $4500 for the boat, and I'm guessing I spent at least another $3000.00 on all the extra stuff including the paints, sandpaper, (and that does also include some tools I needed, like sanders, etc.), lines, motor repairs, a $300 battery and everything.
22) I spent about 6 weeks working day and night getting it ready. Literally day and night… it was way too hot in the day to work on it, so I would often sleep in the day, and work through the night, graveyard shift style.

Yes, in our area $4500.00 for a 26 MacGregor in ANY condition is a STEAL, and this one was not beat to crap. Over a few years time, I'll slowly take care of everything and get it looking good as new. For now, it's safe and reliable, and was a good choice for me and my budget.

My 2014 season consisted of (in order, as best as I can remember): a half day maiden on freshwater with my father. A full day on freshwater singlehanded. A five night trip (was supposed to be 4 nights, but I couldn't make it back where I wanted due to conditions and novice abilities) crossing the Strait of Georgia from Tsawassen up to Nanaimo across to Bowen Island. A night on freshwater, and then another 4 nights mucking about from Porteau Cove to Gibsons and back.

So as you can see I progressed rather quickly. I will certainly say, however, that it's more like 2 hours from pulling up to the launch to being FULLY underway. So, yeah, there's quite a time involvement.

But, boy, I've had FUN!!!!


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Wow, I love the evolution of this thread!

A) Glad you finally have a proper tow vehicle, so many people screw that up.
B) Sounds like you are becoming quite a hand at boat repair, which honestly I think ALL of us should, especially on older boats.
C) What you have discovered is, the advice given to you was heartfelt, honest, and pretty spot on! These folks have all "been there done that," and were really just trying to keep you from regretting your decisions. 

Regardless, it sounds like it all worked out well for you, and for that I am truly happy for you.

NO QUESTION, anything that "looks like a quick repair" on a boat, is going to cost MORE money MORE time and WAY MORE effort than you ever thought. Its OK, though, my day to day job has very little to point at to show a good days work, and I find working on the boat gives me proper pride in being able to point at her and say, yep, I did that. Sounds to me like you have a lot to be proud of.

By the way... pictures or it didn't happen.


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## Lomcevak (Jul 25, 2013)

SHNOOL said:


> Wow, I love the evolution of this thread!
> 
> By the way... pictures or it didn't happen.


Ask and ye shall receive:

MacGregor26 | 1

Drool on those! Haha. (<---- That's me being proud and happy about my boat and sailing adventures.) And those are just pictures of the boat, itself!

I haven't really "repaired" much, though. Yes, I fibreglassed a hole to the stern locker (can't remember my vocabulary at the moment). It was my first real life fibreglassing, and it turned out fine. And I did do some rewiring of the electrical. But most other stuff was just cleaning, replacing, or sanding and repainting of the wood bits.


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## Lomcevak (Jul 25, 2013)

Seals basking in the sun.


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## Lomcevak (Jul 25, 2013)

My favourite seal pics:


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Great pictures! and looks like a pretty nicely shaped boat. I am totally jealous of the waters you are on... I think you made the right purchase for sure.

Oh and because I can't let you go without some hassle... tighten up that backstay a little, look lively man!


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## snodawg (Oct 9, 2014)

Another happy sailor/boat owner. And a proud one at that which is good to see. The boat looks great. I will be in the market for the same Mac this summer after some more sailing lessons. I'll be on the island in July for holidays. Enjoy!


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