# Making wooden spreaders. Material?



## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

Getting ready to pull the stick on the Yankee 30 and know I need to replace at least one spreader. I have a nice piece of teak. Any reason I shouldn't use it to fabricate spreaders?


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## deltaten (Oct 10, 2012)

weight?


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

There's really no reason not to make them out of good straight grain teak. However traditionally they would be out of good soft wood like spruce, ceder, or Douglas fir. The most important however is straight tight grained see what the original spreaders are made of and try to duplicate it


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

You can get aluminum spreaders for the Yankee 30 rig from the original manufacturer. Check the Yankee 30 list, I think the mast was made be LeFiell in CA.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

newhaul said:


> There's really no reason not to make them out of good straight grain teak. However traditionally they would be out of good soft wood like spruce, ceder, or Douglas fir. The most important however is straight tight grained see what the original spreaders are made of and try to duplicate it


Interesting, and counter intuitive to me. Why softer wood? I would think you would want to use a harder, more weather resistant wood.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

Alex W said:


> You can get aluminum spreaders for the Yankee 30 rig from the original manufacturer. Check the Yankee 30 list, I think the mast was made be LeFiell in CA.


Thanks! Gotta love this site...learn things all the time.

Don't know what the "Yankee list" is, but emailed LeFiell with a inquiry. 
LEFIELL MARINE PRODUCTS 
If they make them, It will feel freaky to order a factory replacement part for the 40+ year old boat. Certainly a first for me, didn't even consider it!

Are Aluminium spreaders necessarily better than wood? As with most things, I'll bet there are pros and con's. One pro for wood is that I can make them. However, I'd be happy to buy aluminum if the price isn't prohibitive.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

L124C said:


> Interesting, and counter intuitive to me. Why softer wood? I would think you would want to use a harder, more weather resistant wood.


The soft woods are traditionally used due to lighter weight straight grain and more flexible for spars hard woods won't flex and are actually more likely to break under sailing loads than soft woods.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

newhaul said:


> The soft woods are traditionally used due to lighter weight straight grain and more flexible for spars hard woods won't flex and are actually more likely to break under sailing loads than soft woods.


Yup, I think as teak ages, it would tend to split and crack under the stress of the rigging. Softer woods are lighter and will flex more and not crack or split. Since they are aloft they tend to dry fairly quickly so rot is not as much of an issue, like it would be on a toe rail. That said, they do tend to rot out near the fixtures that will hold the moisture against the wood.

Aluminum is a good option as it will likely last longer than the boat, but the original ones lasted this long and would be cheap and easy to make. It is harder to get good spruce than it once was, but if I had a good source that is the way I would go. Should last another 40 years or so. That is about as long as I expect to be sailing. Though who knows I might be climbing the mast to replace them when I am 90!


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## Cap-Couillon (Jan 2, 2013)

If you decide to go with wood spreaders, given the limited availability of old-growth (tight grained) spruce, "pattern grade" South American mahogany is a good choice. 

While not as light as spruce, it is very tight grained and in "pattern-grade" straight grained and essentially defect free. Exceptional dimensional stability, good workability and easy on the tooling. $6.00-$12.00 / bd-ft depending on your source. A chunk 5/4"x4"x96" is 3.3 bd-ft. Check in your local area for "custom mill-work" who will probably have what you need without having to deal with shipping and minimum orders.
Most shops will sell you a single piece to DIY. 

Teak while very resistant to abrasion and rot (High silica and oil content) is IMHO over rated and over used in marine applications. Good decking material as used in old ships, but poor dimensional stability, hell on the tooling (high silica content) and tough to get an adequate glue joint (oil content).


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

yeah teak no good here...think what old wood spars are made of mostly spruce or fir...

you want light and flexible....

a lot of give is involved in spreader design, even in aluminum or glass...

I have to fix my port upper spreader on my boat, slightly cracket ath the mount bolt at the mast..but since its glass its an easy epoxy putty seal and maybe a wrap of glass there and Im good to go


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

L124C said:


> Thanks! Gotta love this site...learn things all the time.
> 
> Don't know what the "Yankee list" is, but emailed LeFiell with a inquiry.


There is a mailing list for Yankee 30 owners and enthusiasts.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/yankee30/info

There is a list or forum dedicated to almost every well loved boat model.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

The best wood for spreaders is aluminum. Preferably from an old growth aluminum forest. Won't rot, needs no care, durable, lightweight, and can be recycled.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

Just an inside to all I'm a retired shipwright I built my first for profit boat at 15 for john Weyerhauser the man that started the company


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Siamese said:


> The best wood for spreaders is aluminum. Preferably from an old growth aluminum forest. Won't rot, needs no care, durable, lightweight, and can be recycled.


I once saw a group of tree hugging protester trying to protect an old growth aluminum forest, they all stuck their tongues to the aluminum trees, a funny sight to see

A kD vert grain DF might work well


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## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

Argyle has spruce spreaders. They did suffer from some rot near the fixtures at the mast but I was able to address it pretty well penetrating epoxy.

If you decide to stay with wooden spreaders, the best thing for wooden spars is old growth Sitka Spruce from the Pacific Northwest or possibly old growth Douglas Fir from PNW or Maine/Canadian Maritimes. Doug fir is heavier but more rot resistant. Spruce is what has been traditionally used because of it's strength to weight ratio, and it is more susceptible to rot, but as has been said, rot is less of an issue aloft. Yardarms, cross-trees and gaff booms on classic sailing vessels were typically spruce. 

Oh, and Aluminum does rot/corrode, and somewhat quickly if you don't isolate dissimilar metals, so nothing is worry free. 

Old growth fir and spruce is available and it is obviously more expensive, but in my experience, it's still not as expensive as teak. There are several companies that are licensed to harvest naturally fallen old growth trees, both in the US and Canada. The wood is typically used for musical instruments, fine furniture, and, specialty construction. Our marine uses fall under specialty construction. 

I replaced the bowsprit on Argyle with a piece of old growth Douglas Fir from PNW for < $800 total including shipping about 6 years ago. The piece was 8'x7"x7". 

If you do go with a wooden spreader, use clear penetrating epoxy sealer (CPES) as a primer and use a lot of the stuff in any holes you have to put in the piece. If the spreader mounts to the mast with through bolts, fill the bolt holes with CPES by putting some tape on the bottom side of the hole, filling and letting the CPES be absorbed into the wood. Also, try to minimize any holes you have to put in to the wood. If something isn't going to be under loads, consider attaching it to the spreader with a medium strength sealant/adhesive like 4200 or 4000UV. If you do have to screw something in to the wood, screw the item down like normal, then remove the screws and fill the screw holes with CPES and let the epoxy cure. You can do a second application of CPES if you like. Then put the hardware back on the spreader but bed it down with butyl or a caulk like 4000UV, just like you would on the deck. The point is keeping any and all water out from between the hardware and the wood and especially away from that screw hole.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

yeah aluminum has no issues at all it so damn good especially around improperly bedded and or stainless stuff bonk

x2 on the sitka spruce, make sure you know where you get it from, as any wood that is $$ a good background check on the supplier mught surprise you get the good stuff.

My old scarfed herreshof masts were spruce...they were fixed using old methods and new with west systems...but they were 60 years old and were as flexible as new

in fact they were so fleixible they survivded a slight height miscalculation in ft lauderdale at one of the bridges...it bent and banged and survived like no other! ajaja

PS I WAS NOT LAUGHING AT THE TIME BELEIVE YOU ME


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

a couple of shorts of clear, kiln dried fir would be a whole lot more available and cheaper than any exotic woods. Hardwoods are inappropriate for uses like spreaders - ever heard of a teak mast or boom?

By the way, wood spreaders usually rot on their undersides for some reason.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

a common trick is white on top and varnish below...that works quite well, a lot of people also paint the mast tip white...too

cheers


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

L124C said:


> Getting ready to pull the stick on the Yankee 30 and know I need to replace at least one spreader. I have a nice piece of teak. Any reason I shouldn't use it to fabricate spreaders?


I'd use spruce especially if that's what was there originally.

You should be able to find enough clear stock in a short piece of spruce spar material or get a piece sent to you for not a lot.

Wood spreaders usually have a special socket where they fit to the mast designed for the woods strength. Aluminum would require a different socket.


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## benesailor (Dec 27, 2012)

If you are looking for some old growth timber you can call these guys. Located in Farmington, NY and Portland, Oregon.

Home | Pioneer Millworks


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

christian.hess said:


> yeah teak no good here...think what old wood spars are made of mostly spruce or fir...
> you want light and flexible....
> a lot of give is involved in spreader design, even in aluminum or glass...
> I have to fix my port upper spreader on my boat, slightly cracked at the mount bolt at the mast..but since its glass its an easy epoxy putty seal and maybe a wrap of glass there and I'm good to go


Wow, FRP spreaders?...Never even heard of them!

Apparently I'm confused about the forces exerted on a spreader. I assumed they were simply under compression when under load.

In what direction do they need to flex?


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

christian.hess said:


> a common trick is white on top and varnish below...that works quite well, a lot of people also paint the mast tip white...too
> cheers


What's the reasoning?


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I believe the rationale is UV protection on the top (white paint) and moisture protection underneath (varnish).


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

You can see rot developing under varnish as well and since the underside is where it starts.....


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

L124C said:


> What's the reasoning?


the tops get more sunburnt so you reflect it off using white paint and then the bottoms look nice when looking up...you know wooden boats

jajaja


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

L124C said:


> Wow, FRP spreaders?...Never even heard of them!
> 
> Apparently I'm confused about the forces exerted on a spreader. I assumed they were simply under compression when under load.
> 
> In what direction do they need to flex?


up and down actually

always good to have spreaders slightly angled up so you never have them slap down, made fast to the shoruds

they flex quite a bit...when the mast pumps, if ot does, especially to weather youd be surprised how much force is involved


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

CalebD said:


> I believe the rationale is UV protection on the top (white paint) and moisture protection underneath (varnish).





christian.hess said:


> the tops get more sunburnt so you reflect it off using white paint and then the bottoms look nice when looking up...you know wooden boats
> 
> jajaja


Although white paint does indeed provide UV protection (as does varnish!) and moisture protection, on traditional boats, varnish was used wherever there was a lot of wear (like the parts of the mast the mast hoops traditionally slid up), hand-rails, pin-rails, etc. and white paint used everywhere else (like the mast top) to reflect *heat* which otherwise tended to make the wood split and/or the resorcinol glues fail.

Varnishing entire masts was really a 'yachty' trend, simply because they looked nice and the owners didn't mind the maintenance.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

L124C said:


> Wow, FRP spreaders?...Never even heard of them!
> 
> Apparently I'm confused about the forces exerted on a spreader. I assumed they were simply under compression when under load.
> 
> In what direction do they need to flex?


thats what they look like and feel like...they are for sure not aluminum or wood...

so thats my guess....Im always ignoarnt to boats im "new" to... pardon the redundancy but have a ball getting to know them

jajaja


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Classic30 said:


> Although white paint does indeed provide UV protection (as does varnish!) and moisture protection, on traditional boats, varnish was used wherever there was a lot of wear (like the parts of the mast the mast hoops traditionally slid up), hand-rails, pin-rails, etc. and white paint used everywhere else (like the mast top) to reflect *heat* which otherwise tended to make the wood split and/or the resorcinol glues fail.
> 
> Varnishing entire masts was really a 'yachty' trend, simply because they looked nice and the owners didn't mind the maintenance.


thats what I did on my h28 masts

4 coats epoxy and about 6 coats brushed on epifanes or some other good varnish back in the day

but I was 19...all the energy in the world...and loved doing it...

they also looked proper and yacht like...did get a lot of attention...they also were strong and sealed and all bronze hardware

jajaja


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

SloopJonB said:


> a couple of shorts of clear, kiln dried fir would be a whole lot more available and cheaper than any exotic woods. Hardwoods are inappropriate for uses like spreaders - ever heard of a teak mast or boom?


FWIW, I would never recommend using teak for spreaders - it's too soft and not directionally stable. When mine rotted out at the roots, we used ironbark.. but then my spreaders are designed to rotate somewhat forward-aft, up-down so all the loads are in compression.

In your part of the world, I'd second using spruce, fir or ash, if you can get it.



SloopJonB said:


> By the way, wood spreaders usually rot on their undersides for some reason.


I believe that reason is called... *rain*. You know, the wet stuff that falls from the sky??  

(After a down-pour, droplets of water hang around under the spreaders and soak in to bolt and screw connections, never getting a chance to properly dry out. For this reason, it's *essential* to seal the timber with CPES of some sort before painting/varnishing it.)

..but since it doesn't rain over here any more, that's one less thing for me to worry about.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

christian.hess said:


> always good to have spreaders slightly angled up so you never have them slap down, made fast to the shoruds


They should bisect the angle made by the upper portion and the lower (vertical) portion of the shroud.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Classic30 said:


> FWIW, I would never recommend using teak for spreaders - it's too soft and not directionally stable.


First time I've ever heard teak called soft. 



> (After a down-pour, droplets of water hang around under the spreaders and soak in to bolt and screw connections, never getting a chance to properly dry out. For this reason, it's *essential* to seal the timber with CPES of some sort before painting/varnishing it.)


I figured that was it - the underside of spreaders is always the dirtiest part of a rig too.

Maybe we should put drip edge on ours here in the rain forest.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

SloopJonB said:


> First time I've ever heard teak called soft.


Well.. hit a chunk of it with a hammer and see just how much of a dent you get. Maybe it's just me, but personally, I just don't like the idea of using timbers aloft under compression that are easily damaged by flying blocks/shackles/pins/etc. I've seen chunks taken out of teak hand-rails (freshly varnished ones too!) that I certainly wouldn't like to see on the spreaders.

FWIW, my spreaders actually have a 3" long tapered stainless band fitted around the outboard end of them to protect them a bit.. I call it 'armouring'. 

On that note, I think carbon fibre spreaders are a great idea.. just a bit too expensive for my budget.



SloopJonB said:


> I figured that was it - the underside of spreaders is always the dirtiest part of a rig too.
> 
> Maybe we should put drip edge on ours here in the rain forest.


:laugher :laugher


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

theres some smart people on this thread! good stuff classic

ever notice how car rear view mirrors have little tear drop eye shapes on the bottoms of the frames? 

take notice of some cars, they do this so whe it rains the water follows and slips into this little tear shape and then it flows into the wind...whereas no tear what happens is all the water gets spilled and flies into the windows or anywhere for that matter and makes more of a mess...

now this is my experience noticing these kind of things

apllying thise for example to spreaders(ash is a good wood btw) one could imagine making a spreader with nice little nipples to attract rain drops and have them gather and drop faster

what happens is condensation stays put really under spreaders...and in cool climates this happens a lot...in the tropics you dont since it dries up much faster but you have the added trouble of high humidity extreme heat, worms, rot whatever

anywhoo

just thought this would be a fun idea to through around

jajaja

peace


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

SloopJonB said:


> They should bisect the angle made by the upper portion and the lower (vertical) portion of the shroud.


no need yo get so fancy schmancy tecnhical there:laugher:laugher:laugher

but yes...I just call it slightly "up" jajajaja

thanks


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

Argyle38 said:


> Argyle has spruce spreaders. They did suffer from some rot near the fixtures at the mast but I was able to address it pretty well penetrating epoxy.


Finally pulled the rig (and yes...I realize this is a old thread. It doesn't matter)! 
There is some rot at the bases, however most of the spreaders are in great shape. I'm tempted to go the epoxy route. After all, I'll have to epoxy the new spreaders anyway. 
Thoughts?


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

Use a knife or punch and see how deep the rot is. If it's only superficial then epoxy should work fine. Too much rot on the socket end and the spreaders will sink into the sockets when pressure is applied.

I had to re-furbish mine this season. There was no rot, just discoloration on the socket ends. Lot's of old screw holes to fill and a few bungs but they're as strong as new in 1961. You can paint the top surface white enamel for better protection. It's easier to see rot through varnish than under paint.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Coming from a gaffer background, I would choose fir over spruce nearly every time.I welded up some SS pockets the spreader wood set into. They swivelled with a big pin set at the dihedral angle thu a flange on the hounds .No trouble in 40 years but the sludge kept forming on the underside. Ratlines and a long handled brush the only real cure for that.


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

As important as the wood is the grain. I chose vertical grain Douglas Fir. It is sold as stair tread lumber. A spreader is no place for goofy cupping and splitting. Paintingthe top sides white might save some epoxy and varnish grief if you want the natural look.


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## L124C (Oct 4, 2007)

Argyle38 said:


> If you do go with a wooden spreader, use clear penetrating epoxy sealer (CPES) as a primer and use a lot of the stuff in any holes you have to put in the piece. If the spreader mounts to the mast with through bolts, fill the bolt holes with CPES by putting some tape on the bottom side of the hole, filling and letting the CPES be absorbed into the wood. Also, try to minimize any holes you have to put in to the wood. If something isn't going to be under loads, consider attaching it to the spreader with a medium strength sealant/adhesive like 4200 or 4000UV. If you do have to screw something in to the wood, screw the item down like normal, then remove the screws and fill the screw holes with CPES and let the epoxy cure. You can do a second application of CPES if you like. Then put the hardware back on the spreader but bed it down with butyl or a caulk like 4000UV, just like you would on the deck. The point is keeping any and all water out from between the hardware and the wood and especially away from that screw hole.


I'm going with spruce. 
Use CPES instead of West 105/202 (for example)? 
What paint should I use?
Bed all hardware including spreader tips? Doesn't the epoxy isolate the wood from water?


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

L124C said:


> I'm going with spruce.
> Use CPES instead of West 105/202 (for example)?
> What paint should I use?
> Bed all hardware including spreader tips? Doesn't the epoxy isolate the wood from water?


Ok.
Yes.
A white topsides enamel of some kind 2-pack or 1-pack as you like over a proper Yacht Primer.
I would.. only because I'd rather not go up there just because something has loosened off.
Yes.

Have fun!


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Tradition has the underside varnished...well, for me anyway.


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## TomMaine (Dec 21, 2010)

L124C said:


> I'm going with spruce.
> Use CPES instead of West 105/202 (for example)?
> What paint should I use?
> Bed all hardware including spreader tips? Doesn't the epoxy isolate the wood from water?


You can do that, or take the easy way out. Build a typical varnish coating:thinned first and second coat, then 5 or 6 coats un-thinned, sanding lightly between coats. Do the whole spreader.

When that's dry, tape off the top surface, lightly sand, apply a couple coats of hardware store white enamel(only the seagulls will see it). Then install any hardware, and yes, bedding compound.

For maintenance, lightly sand, varnish the whole spreader, right over the paint.

Eventually, every coating will need removal. Plain varnish comes off easily, as does the paint on top.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

aeventyr60 said:


> Tradition has the underside varnished...well, for me anyway.


Oh, well.. too late for me! :frown


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

^I'll send you a bit of 80 grit...


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

aeventyr60 said:


> ^I'll send you a bit of 80 grit...


Thanks... (I think)


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

How it should look:


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## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

L124C said:


> I'm going with spruce.
> Use CPES instead of West 105/202 (for example)?
> What paint should I use?
> Bed all hardware including spreader tips? Doesn't the epoxy isolate the wood from water?


I'm not familiar with West 105/202 so I can't comment on that. I do know that CPES is very thin and soaks in to the wood before it cures. This effectively turns a thin layer of wood in to "wood reinforced plastic" and seals off the wood from water ingress. If West 105/202 does that as well then that may be an option.

I use white one part polyurethane on the top side of the spreaders. Brightside is the type, forget the brand, they sell it at west marine. It seems to hold up fairly well. The paint seems to bond well with the CPES epoxy.

I use Cetol light on the sides and underside. Looks good enough for me, I ain't no museum boat after all, especially from 30' away.

Yes, I do think it's a good idea to bed everything with a sealant that is removable (i.e. not 5200). You will want to be able to remove, inspect, and clean things up from time to time. I use 4000UV there. LifeCaulk might work well there too. The CPES ideally will keep water out, but when hardware gets attached, it could compromise the epoxy coating to some extant and water could work it's way in to small gaps between the hardware and the wood. If there's a small crack or gauge in the epoxy, then that becomes an ideal place for rot to start since the water won't evaporate away very fast from down inside a crevice. So the sealant is there to prevent that as much as possible. Belt and suspenders kind of thing.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

+1 on the Brightsides for the spreader and the mast. I thinned the paint out for the first few coats as the temperature was in the 90's.


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