# Please Advise on This Hardin 45' cutter ketch



## Winderlust (Jan 26, 2009)

This Yachtworld boat has my eye. 1981 Hardin 45' cutter/ketch to be used for South-sea's cruising, 3-4 crew, all other things being equal (meaning no special conjecture).

I have heard bad things about boats coming from some Taiwan Yards maybe even most.

If I could nab it for $100-105k, that would leave only about $25-30k to get her ready for the extended cruise, say out cruising for 5 or so years. I can do much of the unskilled labor. I would use the transit/delivery from New Orleans to San Diego as the shake down and expect $6-8k additional expenses doing that.

1981 Hardin Cutter Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Is this boat worthy of further investigation for said purpose or is it a pass? Does anyone know about this production run? The hull is number 108. Did they start at 1 or 100?

Is my transit estimate to, through the Panama Canal, and up to San Diego in bounds?

I sure would be interested in knowledgeable replies.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

That's one heck of a shakedown cruise!......*i2f*


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

To some extent these are the boats that gave Taiwan its bad reputation. Hardins are supposed to be a little better built than some of the more negligently constructed designs. Still and all, these are antiquated designs that in the big picture offer poor performance, are very expensive to maintain in terms of the age of the boat meaning that much of the gear and rigging is at the end of its useful lifespan, especially for offshore sailing, and everything being sized the excessive weight of the boat, plus boats of this type are really rolly and tend to pitch through wider angles than more up to date offshore cruiser, and so can be extremely uncomfortable for people for whom wide angles of motion are uncomforble. 

Jeff


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## Winderlust (Jan 26, 2009)

*Good Headsup*

Thanks Jeff for the wave-off. I'll steer clear of these boat types.

Would you say the Tashing built boats of 1981 vintage bring up the same concerns. Or is that the difference?

I understand a 1981 rig probably needs a re-fit. Do these Taiwan boats have the bones to be worth it?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I've wondered the same thing Winder - the Cheoy Lees, Ta Chiaos, etc. I see a lot of Cheoy Lee Pedricks one the market - but the range all over the place in terms of reviews.

Jeff, you seriously should do some review articles on various production boats within a decade run. There are always a lot of questions from people buying boats from the '70's, 80's, 90's, etc. It would be cool to have a good overview article.


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## Winn (Mar 9, 2010)

I bought my 1978 Hardin 44 last year, hull #31. To my knowledge, they are numbered from #1 and up, so #108 is well up there. I absolutely love my Hardin 44. I take her out by myself, all 4 sails, all the time. The 1981 boat in question looks like significant new work and money has been put into the boat. Check the bulkheads and decks for rot, however since the decks have been glassed, they may be in good shape. Most of the problem areas look like they have been replaced, but check on the engine. I have a new Yanmar 75 Turbo and it costs nothing to run the boat. I investigated these boats for 2 years before acquiring mine. I couldn't be happier. I find mine easy to fall in love with. Any boat can be a nightmare, just buy a good one.
Winn


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## Winderlust (Jan 26, 2009)

Winn,

Very interesting and encouraging response. Where is Kent island? Would you take your lover, your children and your mom out 2,000km to sea in your Hardin 44'?

What is your baddest experience in the deep blue?

Have you needed to cut sail and reef the main in your Hardin? What was that like?

Do you still have the leaky teaky deck or has your boat also had the teakectomy as this boat has had? If not, are your decks still stiff and dry?

Your input is direct knowledge, but after only one post, I wonder how deep the knowledge. No offense... I also know the number of posts a person has here can also be miss-leading. God knows half my posts on this board have been wayward and misguided.

If you don't mind me asking... When did you buy, where, how much, what did your surveyor say about the boat, and what have you done to her? What is her hull speed and how much wind on broad does it take, flying your jib, stay, main and mizzen to reach that speed? What do you think you would have to do to get her ready for a cross Pacific passage?

Please excuse my nosiness. That's what makes Sailnet so valuable. Where else can I get those answers?


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## Winn (Mar 9, 2010)

Hello Winderlust,

Kent Island is on the other side of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, by Annapolis, MD. I have never been 2,000km out to sea on her. I'm not sure my loved ones would handle it anyway, but with the proper experience, equipment, and preparation, I in fully intend to taking her down to the keys in Florida.
What other boat at what money would you feel safe? In the ocean, they are all small boats. 

While fairly new to sailing, (yes, I jumped in with both feet, but glad I did) I have been boating for over 35 years. I have an engineering background so I notice everything and I'm pretty particular about things. My worst experience is only a temporary grounding in 25mph winds, but this is probably due to some wise words that I read. "Trust your instincts. If your instinct says drop the sails, do it immediately without question. By the time the situation hits you, it's too late." As I sail alone often, better safe than sorry. I only dropped the sails once for the grounding, as the wind was blowing me into shallow water. With the big prop and powerful diesel, I was able to work my way out. I have sailed her in higher winds with the main reefed and thoroughly enjoyed the day. One thing I really like about mine is the 6' keel. It takes a lot to make her heel and the ride is wonderful.

She easily motors over 7 knots. I'm at 4 to 5 knots in lighter winds. No problem getting 7 knots+ in higher winds. We have 2 Hardins here at the marina, and we joke about how it's time to go out when they call for small craft warnings.

First, I have great luck with large purchases. I bought the boat in Baltimore, only a short trip away, at a fantastic price. The surveyor was very impressed. I know these boats inside and out and pre-surveyed it myself after 2 years of looking at several Hardins. I almost bought another Hardin previously, but my surveyor suggested that I walk off the boat. Always have a good surveyor, he saved me a lot of money and aggrevation. The $1000.00 cost for the surveyor was a $100,000.00 education. Follow him everywhere and observe.

My Hardin has had the teakectomy, and the inside is beautiful because of it. My decks are like a rock. I fact the whole boat is rock solid. One of the few boats to survive in the middle of Hurricane Katrina was a Hardin 45. I actually have not had to do a lot to the boat, at present. Someone had done a lot of work to her previously, replacing wood spars with aluminum spars, glassing the decks, and a new engine. I was surprised at how easily I could handle her around the marina under power. I thought I would need a bow thruster, but I can put her within an inch of anything by myself. This is of course in normal weather.

Before taking on an ocean going trip, I need to certify the rigging, add survival gear, recondition the fuel in the two 100 gallon tanks, install new radar, soda blast the bottom and apply fresh paint. I burn so little fuel, that if I used the big tanks, the fuel would probably go bad, so I installed a 9 gallon tank for cruising locally.

One big thing you want to do before taking her out in the oceans of the world is to make some shields for the big front windows. Some of the "Island Trader" Hardins have smaller front windows and a raised front cabin trunk. As that 1981 may have the original engine, I see that as the potential weak link, especially for what you are considering.

I could go on for hours so feel free to call me - my cell is 410-725-4377 warning I get lots of calls, always preface with an email and include your number so I can see if I missed your call.

I believe that most people that criticize these boat have never had one. She is major eye candy in the marina, people love her, salty as hell, and the best thing I ever did. I wish that I had discovered her 20 years ago.
My wife was giving me major grief about switching from power boating to buying the Hardin. After her first ride on the Hardin she said "Wow - I feel like I'm in a movie, but I can touch it." 
Try it, you'll like it.


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

Winderlust said:


> Thanks Jeff for the wave-off. I'll steer clear of these boat types.


Wow, that was fast.

I think it depends on what you are looking for. I've seen a crapped out Hunter and a Catalina in my search and a pristine Hardin, with glass decks, aluminum spars, great sails and a fairly new Perkins.

I'm not going to defend any boat I'm looking at. What I am going to do is look closely, pay attention to unbiased and informed opinions, and go in with as much information as I can.

It really depends on the boat, how well you check it out and who your surveyor is.

Good luck in your search.


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/orphan-brands/27626-how-about-hardin-45-thread.html


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

smackdaddy said:


> I've wondered the same thing Winder - the Cheoy Lees, Ta Chiaos, etc. I see a lot of Cheoy Lee Pedricks one the market - but the range all over the place in terms of reviews.
> 
> Jeff, you seriously should do some review articles on various production boats within a decade run. There are always a lot of questions from people buying boats from the '70's, 80's, 90's, etc. It would be cool to have a good overview article.


I'd love to see a detailed review rather than a general condemnation of a range of boats because of where and when some boats where built.

My father in law loves his Tayana. Where was that built?

People hate Hunters because they aren't blue water capable or look like clorox bottles.

I tried to walk the seriously curved and sloped deck of a Benetau 38-39 or so the other day and was lost when looking for handholds in the main cabin. Let's not talk about the lack of handholds in the cabin.

Owned a Moto-Guzzi, which has been going out of business for 75 years.

Owned a BMW airhead, which lots of japanese and harley riders mock.

Owned wooden bows, which the compound guys mock (won more than a few bets when the lights were turned down in the range).

It really matters on what works for you.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Just curious, but where did you see someone issuing a general condemnation of a range of boats? Jeff_H certainly didn't do so... and either did Smacky AFAICT.



blackjenner said:


> I'd love to see a detailed review rather than a general condemnation of a range of boats because of where and when some boats where built.
> 
> My father in law loves his Tayana. Where was that built?
> 
> ...


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

sailingdog said:


> Just curious, but where did you see someone issuing a general condemnation of a range of boats? Jeff_H certainly didn't do so... and either did Smacky AFAICT.


"To some extent these are the boats that gave Taiwan its bad reputation."

Sure, the "to some extent" is a qualifier, but I have seen this exact same language around motorcycles, guns, bicycles, cars, over the years.

That is what I was talking about.

Not so broad a brush please.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I agree with your take Black - that's why I asked the question about a more detailed review of the Taiwanese brands. Which ones are generally worth looking at and which ones aren't?


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

I think that's a great way to look at it. Throughout my life experience I have heard less than complimentary opinions applied to broad numbers of Beechcraft Bonanzas, Harleys, Japanese bikes, Glock handguns, automobiles ... I could go on. These stereotyping opinions (using one example and extrapolating to all examples of the thing) aren't very useful except in demonstrating the mindset of the various speakers.

The other side of it is, many broad opinions like these are based on some concrete and true example. For example, when Harley Davidson was owned by AMF (the basketball company) quality control went down the tubes. The shovelhead engines were awful in terms of oil retention and reliability. When the EVO engine came out in 88, people were still using the same language to trash Harley (I'm not a Harley fan by the way) even though the new engines were a great improvement; good even. 

Now, I've been riding motorcycles for 35 years. I've owned as many as seven running bikes at one time. I've worked in the industry, written for magazines and had photography published around them. I've owned over 25 models and ridden about a half a million miles on them. All that life experience doesn't matter one bit if I offer emotional and broad based negative opinions without any facts to back them up. 

No matter the credentials of the speaker, when I hear broad brushed opinions I don't take them too seriously, I ask for specifics from the people who are speaking broadly. This helps me determine if their opinions are based on current or correct facts or outdated or emotional based information.

So, boats built in Taiwan; I'm sure there were problems. I have no doubt about that. However, I have seen three different examples of Taiwanese built boats that were solid, well made and surveyed well. I do not believe that all, or even most, of the boats of Taiwanese boats are bad, no more than I believe all Harleys or BMWs are bad, based on their companies particular failures. I have also spoken to a shipwright who, in the same breath, did speak of being careful of some Taiwan boats, yet praised a particular Hardin as solid, extremely wall made, rigged well and a good boat.

So, I don't know the whole story. I'm learning as much as I can about various boat manufacturers and model examples. What I do know about is human behavior, how it shapes opinions, and how personal motivations and biases can often be presented as opinions.

Like you, I'm interested in detailed reviews, based on facts and data. 

Anything else is opinion, and subject to skepticism on my part.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

So lets be more specific, in the 1980's my mother and stepfather owned company that built boats in Taiwan. They were heavily involved in the design, development and construction of these boats. It meant being over there for long periods of time. Since they were not aligned with any specific yard, they would be in and out of the various yards, examining the quality of the boats being built since they were potentially contracting with these yards to build their boats. In those days the boat builders were a close knit bunch who met for dinner nearly nightly and would talk pretty openly about what they were up to, expecially since they used many of the same suppliers and tradesmen.

Because of my yacht design background, I was often involved in detailed conversations about related topics including build quality issues and the like. In a general sense, I came to understand the core issues with many of the boats that came out of Taiwan in terms of materials and methods of construction and the difficulty in getting them to adhere to even basic standards of construction in serious areas that potentially impacted some of the most basic structural, rigging and electrical and plumbing standards. 

Some of this was understandable for an island republic where materials needed to imported, but some was just plain crazy. I cringed at stories like that of one yard in which an owner had paid to ship marine grade plywood to the yard for use in the subdecks, monel and stainless steel fastenings, properly rated hoses, and tinned wire in a range of sizes. The boat was being produced on a time and material contract under direct owner supervision and yet every time the owner turned his back for a day or two, non-marine ply was used in the deck, junk hoses suddenly appeared, and non-tinned wire was used for the electrical. The owner assumed they were trying to sell off "the good stuff" and make more money. But more to the point, the yard insisted none of this stuff was really necessary. But to me what makes this story significant as this story was being told, most of the yard owners sitting at that table agreed this stuff was unnecessary. 

If I recall correctly, Hardin's were built under direct supervision, and so some of the really slip-shod stuff that I have seen probably was not done on these boats, and like the boat that Winn purchased, if someone went through one and really upgraded everything, you could end up with a half-way decent built boat. 

That said, having sailed on these types of boats in a range of conditions, I find their motion uncomfortable, and their high drag hull forms, low stability to drag, and rig proportions really lousey at either end of the wind range. I understand that is my opinion and it represents my own personal bias toward better sailing vessels, betetr engineering, and my preference for a less rolly motion at the price of a slightly quicker motion. 

Jeff


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

Thanks for that answer, Jeff.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Thanks Jeff. One other question...

Of the Taiwanese brands of that era, are there boats of the era that were typically better than the others (e.g. - Cheoy Lees, etc.)? I guess that's the distinction I'm looking for.


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

And yet another....I hope you don't mind. 

Jeff, I was wondering. Based on your experience, if you had a boat budget of 100-130K and were looking for:

1) liveaboard (comfort and room) for two people. Aft cabin is really tempting here.
2) start with cruising the Puget Sound and inside passage to Alaska.
3) Single or dual handing
4) eventually blue water (if it's possible for the boat)

What classes or makes of boats would you consider?

That is the question I am currently trying to answer.

Thanks for your earlier response. It will inform my decisions quite a bit.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

black, check out this thread:

*The Salt's Corner Table*

There are several posts by Jeff and others talking about these comparisons. I can't remember one specific to Taiwanese boats - so I'm interested in this conversation. I'll add it to the "Salt's Thread" as well. That thread is just a great place to put together the best posts so you don't have to dig forever for the info and so these guys don't have to answer questions repeatedly.

There was also a great discussion in the "Production Boats and the Limits" thread where these guys helped define the bluewater versus coastal cruiser issue a bit.

Happy hunting.


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

smackdaddy said:


> black, check out this thread:
> 
> *The Salt's Corner Table*
> 
> ...


Thanks for the point, Smack and to Jeff for the comprehensive post in Salt's corner. I started reading it yesterday and am trying to finish it up today.


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## hardin45lover (May 6, 2010)

your welcome to come see mine anytime and talk SAVE THE HARDINS
Capt.Joseph


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## Winn (Mar 9, 2010)

*Come see mine, too...*



hardin45lover said:


> your welcome to come see mine anytime and talk SAVE THE HARDINS
> Capt.Joseph


Black, you are welcome to come see my Hardin 44 anytime, and my arm doesn't have to get twisted to take a ride. I may not have as much sailing experience as some, but I may have a better time. I would compare the Hardin to performance sailboats like an Austin Healey to a Chevy Corvette. The boat has soul and character. I have never had a bad ride in the boat, ever. I take it out several times a week. It may not win a race, but she's not slow either. It's good to ask ask people their opinions on boats, but you will never know unless you go out on it, touch it, feel it, smell it. I don't like my Hardin, I love it. All boats have issues, find one you can fall in love with.

Winn


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## Winn (Mar 9, 2010)

*What will $100k buy?*



Winn said:


> Black, you are welcome to come see my Hardin 44 anytime, and my arm doesn't have to get twisted to take a ride. I may not have as much sailing experience as some, but I may have a better time. I would compare the Hardin to performance sailboats like an Austin Healey to a Chevy Corvette. The boat has soul and character. I have never had a bad ride in the boat, ever. I take it out several times a week. It may not win a race, but she's not slow either. It's good to ask ask people their opinions on boats, but you will never know unless you go out on it, touch it, feel it, smell it. I don't like my Hardin, I love it. All boats have issues, find one you can fall in love with.
> 
> Winn


One other thought, what other boats can you buy for $100k that are bigger, better, safer, saltier, and more soulful boat than the Hardin for the price range? I found it difficult to find more boat for the money.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

_"One other thought, what other boats can you buy for $100k that are bigger, better, safer, saltier, and more soulful boat than the Hardin for the price range? I found it difficult to find more boat for the money."_

With the exception of the word "Bigger" (which should only apply to a dockside liveaboard and not a sea boat) and perhaps "Soulfull" which is in the heart of the beholder, I would suggest a Kelly Peterson 44 if distance cruising is the goal, which is a better sailing boat on all points of sail, and in all wind ranges, is easier to handle in across the board, and which offers a much more comfortable motion in a seaway.

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## cob631 (Sep 15, 2005)

I agree I have had one for two years went all over east coast. and I love it, especialy in a storm if you ever get caught out there you feel real safe, they are not fast but mine is built and I love to sail her.


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

And the thing is, there is no convincing those that don't like the boat, or any particular boat, for whatever reason. I don't mean that you won't change their mind.

I mean it's *irrelevant* to attempt to change their mind.

Same thing with motorcycles and cars.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd point out that Jeff_H"s criticisms aren't subjective, but objective, based on his experience with the yards in question and the practices found there. This is not a matter of disliking the boats, but rather the construction practices and materials often used in them. He clearly states his preference is for a different style of boat, but I don't believe he is allowing that to bias his judgement on why these boats are not the best choice.


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## Ezzspike (Jul 24, 2010)

Winderlust

I love the lines on this boat and in fact have look at her several times. She is in my marina.

That said what scare the poo out of me about this boat is I have not see her leave the dock in over two years.

They keep her clean but I have never seen anyone on her or sail her


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

the boats that truly did give the bad rap for taiwanese boats were not the hardins,. they were the formosas. the formosas were built with little or no quality control and have lasted accordingly. the hardins were built in a different yard and under different circumstances than were the formosa and other garden design productions. bill hardin had better control over his yard and the families that did the work'-- go for the hardin ketch--she is an awesome boat.
if you are looking for the folks who have these boats, see the leaky teaky yacht club in yahoo or the leaky teaky tavern in facebook. i own a formosa 41.
there are folks there who have the histories and s more details of these boats--and every one in the group is an owner. we would be most happy to help you and have you join us should you desire.

as for the bias you will find regarding these boats--they are either loved or hated, there is no in between. many folks find a special passion for them as they are awesome boats. before you rule it out get a surveyor and go look at it.thoroughly.
this particular boat looks more fiberglass than mine is--the formosas had much different construction than the hardin 45. hardin 4 is much more fiberglass, deck and cabin house. formosa used wood. the boats that had most problems were the kind like mine--built with the wood coachhouse. if you like the boat, buy it--after survey. there is no dictating of passion for boats--if you have passion for the boat--is a good thing. there are support groups for folks like us--these groups have much interchange if information for repairing and maintaining these boats. you are not and will not be alone. good luck whatever you decide.


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## JomsViking (Apr 28, 2007)

I come from another tradition of boats (Scandinavia), so I'm obviously biased. Having said that, I think the boats look like something they're not (traditional), and that always scare me away. It also looks complex, rigging wise, e.g. the bobstay and associated rigging = extra stuff that can go wrong - as well as overly heavy, which not only affects sailing-performance, but also seriously affects the work and strength required by those sailing the boat, especially when the sh1t hits the fan.
Also the interior look like it is homemade from a big chunk of teak - again, that might just be a style, but most Scandinavian boatbuilders would not get away with something that crude.
But as a liveaboard it seems quite nice with a lot of space.


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## capnorv (Jan 6, 2011)

blackjenner said:


> Wow, that was fast.
> 
> I think it depends on what you are looking for. I've seen a crapped out Hunter and a Catalina in my search and a pristine Hardin, with glass decks, aluminum spars, great sails and a fairly new Perkins.
> 
> ...


Sorry blackjenner, if that Hardin was in Anacortes, it's ours now, finally got the docs yesterday! Seems like a great boat if I ever get used to the size. Fair Winds


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

capnorv said:


> Sorry blackjenner, if that Hardin was in Anacortes, it's ours now, finally got the docs yesterday! Seems like a great boat if I ever get used to the size. Fair Winds


No need to apologize at all. Yes, we were interested in Windfall. We saw it twice. It has much going for it. I hope you enjoy it very much. Congrats.

We decided on this:










It's a Baba 35 Pilot House cutter designed by Bob Perry. There were only seven made and we have one. We are very happy with it.


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## capnorv (Jan 6, 2011)

Yes, Brigadoon is a great boat...


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## stevemason (Jul 18, 2010)

*luisa*

Hey Susan and Norval
See you guys are moving up to a larger boat. We are heading to SF this fall. Are you guys still up in Jarrels Cove? Send me your email and phone.

[email protected]
Steve and Teri
galatea


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Winderlust's lost is Boasun's gain. And I'm so happy that he passed this beautiful boat by. Because the owner accepted my bid on her and by next weekend after seatrials & survey she is Mine, Mine, Mine. Dang Nabit that latter part sounds to much like daffy duck.
The electronic package is early 1981'ish and should be changed out... After who uses a 12 channel VHF or a Loran C, any more? As with any older boat there are maintenance that are out standing and really needs to be done. 
After all, she is a tad lonely and needs someone like myself that will take good care of her. But as I inspected her the first time. Watched how she rolled when the broker stepped on board her _(she didn't roll). _Very little movement, which to me is a good thing. Now as to her size? I've Captained vessels up to 210 ft. Sailed as mate on much larger ships. So revelancy in her size, she is a tad small from my point of view. Single handed 110 ft crewboats and other vessels. But I will enjoy sailing her and giving her the TLC that she needs


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

congratulations on your purchase--to the fella who sed that a heavy boat makes ye work more-- BALDERDASH!!!!!! in SPADES. that is such bunk. i have a heavy boat and i love her--is easier to sail than a performance cruiser-- actually responds. she looks traditinal clipper and sails like a dream. i absolutely LOVE my formosa41..... only thing i would replace her with would be a formosa 51 or a hardin 45 or a vagabond 47.
nice heavy boats make cruising a dream not a nightmare. tried performance boats--we were so exhausted at every place we stopped it was ridiculous-we were too exhausted to enjoy much of the areas.. wasnt cruising in comfort. was bashing.
met big winds and seas in my formosa and i was happy-- she is heavy and solid and sails well. loves the wind. easy to steer even when i was hand steering her.


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

Excellent. I was thrilled when I first bought my heavy ketch (39', 16 tons) and I still love her. I'm happy aboard, sailing or moored. And I singlehand her constantly. Fair winds!


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## tsuidc (Mar 2, 2008)

When I read the earlier postings on this thread, I was surprised that nobody pointed out to Smackdaddy regarding the difference between Taiwan built versus Cheoy Lee built boats. Cheoy Lee is a reputable Hong Kong shipyard with over a hundred years of boat building experience (not too many of our yachtyards in the US can make the same claim). They recently moved their operations to southern China (just like everybody else). They built beautifully crafted sailing yachts mostly during the seventies when Hong Kong was still British. They built them to Lloyd's specifications, but I probably would not buy a used Cheoy Lee now mostly because of the teak decks (just personal preference). I don't believe they are building anymore sailboats. Now their business is mostly geared towards custom motor boats of the superyacht variety and ocean going tugs.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

As someone that constantly searches all the sail boat sales sites.. I can't keep from lingering on all the "leaky teaky" boat ads. 
this one in Deale MD is breathtaking to just view online. I'd dare not go see it. although I could never afford a boat even near that price range. 
1981 Hardin Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

I love the look and feel of teak decks and lots of brightwork. But as top boat slave I'm glad my old ketch has glass on ply decks and no exterior brightwork.


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## MikeinLA (Jul 25, 2006)

I love the Hardins. Some friends from my dock had a 44 (45?) and it was a beauty! The VERY skilled owner re-did everything on the boat and they are currently enroute to Turkey where they plan to live aboard (wife's family is there). They publish an email/blog for their friends, as of last week they were in Panama. Everything's going great so far.

Mike


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## Bill32080 (Oct 8, 2011)

Hello,
I just purchased a Hardin 45 Ketch. The masts need to be replaced. I can't find any information on the dimensions of the masts and booms. I'm replacing the old wood masts with aluminum. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks


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## Aquarian (Nov 8, 2010)

Jeff_H said:


> To some extent these are the boats that gave Taiwan its bad reputation. Hardins are supposed to be a little better built than some of the more negligently constructed designs. Still and all, these are antiquated designs that in the big picture offer poor performance, are very expensive to maintain in terms of the age of the boat meaning that much of the gear and rigging is at the end of its useful lifespan, especially for offshore sailing, and everything being sized the excessive weight of the boat, plus boats of this type are really rolly and tend to pitch through wider angles than more up to date offshore cruiser, and so can be extremely uncomfortable for people for whom wide angles of motion are uncomforble.
> 
> Jeff


Sorry, I know this is coming quite late, but for those who will read it is the archives. Read this before deciding: Hardin 45 Review : Bluewaterboats.org


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## Aquarian (Nov 8, 2010)

Bill32080 said:


> Hello,
> I just purchased a Hardin 45 Ketch. The masts need to be replaced. I can't find any information on the dimensions of the masts and booms. I'm replacing the old wood masts with aluminum. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks


HARDIN 45 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

P is your mainsail height. If you click on the word "key" you will find an explaination for the letters - like P. Good luck.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

hardin 45 is a good boat--- if you are seeking that kind of solid, heavy cruiser. they wont point, so dont ask it to. the boat WILL perform as it was designed to perform. have fun and smooth sailing.


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## chris31519 (Nov 25, 2009)

Can't give any personal experience, but you might read this book about a family that cruised a Hardin 45 for 13 months from Canada to Mexico including a month at sea and a hurricane. At the end he goes into detail about his selection of the Hardin as the ideal boat for offshore cruising.

Amazon.com: Voyage of the Maiatla with the Naked Canadian (9781412027946): Andrew W. Gunson: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@51MDwDplXEL

PS no I don't get commission


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## 97fxdwg (Jan 20, 2012)

There is a Hardin 44 Voyager on eBay right now that I had a visual survey done on. WOW, sad to see such a wonderful boat left to the elements.


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## Aquarian (Nov 8, 2010)

97fxdwg said:


> There is a Hardin 44 Voyager on eBay right now that I had a visual survey done on. WOW, sad to see such a wonderful boat left to the elements.


I heard that one finally found a home - brave soul. Hope his resto is coming along well.


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