# Island Packet Designs



## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

I've read a lot of opinions on SailNet about Island Packet yachts. Many people don't hold them in high regard. However, while I've never sail an IP, I must admit that I'm impressed with the creativity/uniqueness of a couple of their current yachts. Namely, the SP Cruiser and the IP465. 

The SP Cruiser is an interesting take on the motorsailor concept. I particularly like the foredeck seating area.

I love the IP465's cabin layout. The two private staterooms, long starboard galley and enclosed nav area seem like a really good use of space. I also like the aft deck area.

Anyone else have opinions on these two relatively new designs and the direction Island Packet is heading? Personally, I wish they made something smaller than 37 feet.


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## Pamlicotraveler (Aug 13, 2006)

I think they are well made production boats. They are probably a good choice for cruisers looking for durability. They are known to be slow and heavy, thus the nickname Island Piglet. They look great inside - not luxurious, but spacious and durable. 

Now the SP Cruiser I can't understand. I am curious if anybody has really bought one. I know there is a prototype that is pictured in their ads, but I have never seen one on the water. I don't really understand the concept. The cockpit is closed and the deck is separate from the cockpit. It is a strange bird and wouldn't appeal to me at any stage in life.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I believe the IPSP Cruiser is geared towards a totally different market than their other boats. It'll be interesting to see how it does over the next couple of years.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

I would have to say that Island Packets are more "coastal plus" the smaller ones are coastal, the bigger ones can make some passages. I've sailed an IP32 and think highly of it as a family coastal cruiser. Lots of room down below in those boats because they are so beamy. I guess it comes down to what you want out of her, do you want bluewater (then no), or do you want coastal family cruiser (then yes)? They are good boats, it just depends on how you plan to use her. Sure people cross oceans on them, but that doesn't mean that I would (hell some people cross oceans in canoes and rafts, once again, not me).

I think the SP model is a little gimicky. There might be a small market for it.


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

I've actually heard the IP termed more of a bluewater boat than a coastal cruiser. The newer ones tend to be somewhat roomy inside, but they are clearly designed for offshore use in MOST areas. I've taken issue with the fact that the 485 and the 465 both have a master berths that are angled. They must be awkward to sleep on in anything but a light sea state, even at anchor. I've also heard there are other issues with their design, including their rudder and some of the chainplate manufacturing. My biggest issue with IP's is that you can get a semi-custom boat from Passport or Tayana for a very similar price to a new IP (at least a loaded 485).


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I have seen an SP cruiser underway this weekend. From a distance they look like an old fashioned motorsailor but up close they have that "what the heck were those folk thinking (or taking)?" look about them. A local sailmaker called the Island Packets a trawler for people who want to claim they own a sailboat. The SP is perhaps a bit more honest about being a motorboat with a few bits of sails for ambiance. 

Jeff


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## conchcruzer (Aug 18, 2004)

*Here we go again. . .*

You guys always crack me up with these comments.

IPs excel at liveaboard cruising in the Caribbean. I have seen more IPs out cruising than almost any other builder.

I wouldn't want an IP to just day sail or take short trips in the light airs of the Chesapeake Bay or US East Coast. Nor would I purchase one for club racing. The fact that an IP is less well suited to these conditions does not make it a trawler for sailing wanna-be's.

On a midnight watch, reaching between St. Croix and Isla Blanquilla (that's Venezuela to those who posted above), when the wind is blowing 20-25 and building, it becomes obvious what the IP was built for. When you arrive, the spacious accommodations and well ventilated interior are a delight.

Enough said. I'll let my website fill in the details.

For the original poster--if you're interested in an IP (please, not the SP cruiser!), talk to an owner.

Cheers, 
Dan 
S/V Eventyr
IP40
www.ipphotos.com/eventyr


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I know a guy who sailed an Island Packet 29 to Ireland from Maryland. I hold them in high regard and deem them rather seaworthy.

Spencer
_Surprise_
______________
Catalina22


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

It's apparent to me that this board has more than it's fair share of people who apparently want to criticize just about everything just to sound authoritative when unintentionally demonstrating quite the opposite. Combine that with the folks here who think their boat is the only good boat and it gets pretty entertaining. 
The conventional wisdom is the IPs share extremenly high (knowledgeable)owner satisfaction and owner loyalty and are a lot more than simple coastal cruisers which in point of fact is the antithesis of their design.


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## stevemac00 (Feb 16, 2007)

To original poster. (I wish they made something smaller than 37 feet.)
There are many happy IP31 owsers. http://www.ip31ownersassoc.homestead.com/
I almost bought a 38. Before buying I chartered one from Island Yachts. We liked the interior and boat quality. But hard sail close to wind and seemed underpowered going to weather in seas.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

*Buick owners*



k1vsk said:


> It's apparent to me that this board has more than it's fair share of people who apparently want to criticize just about everything just to sound authoritative when unintentionally demonstrating quite the opposite. Combine that with the folks here who think their boat is the only good boat and it gets pretty entertaining.
> The conventional wisdom is the IPs share extremenly high (knowledgeable)owner satisfaction and owner loyalty and are a lot more than simple coastal cruisers which in point of fact is the antithesis of their design.


Why do you feel the need to put down posters who know more about boating than yourself? In the boating world some things legitamately qualify for general criticism from knowledgeable sailors - the fact that you don't recognize those things doesn't make you right, just unknowing.

For some reason Buick owners love their Buicks, but that doesn't make Buicks a good, or even a competent, automobile.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

If everyone on the board shared identical viewpoints, it would indeed be very boring.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Actually I find the SP quite attractive and a good perfect boat for a couple or small family cruising along the coast of Portugal and Spain, where most boats sail down the coast ok, but need engine to go North. Against prevailing north winds and waves the size of houses...

Also, I like inovation, that nice little seating cockpit in front is nice...

I like that boat, for cruising that is...its prettier than most type of boats that type.

When I retire..I can see myself in one...so what??


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> If everyone on the board shared identical viewpoints, it would indeed be very boring.


TB - you are completely and utterly wrong!!!


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

sailingfool said:


> Why do you feel the need to put down posters who *know more about boating than yourself?* In the boating world some things legitamately qualify for general criticism from knowledgeable sailors - the fact that *you don't recognize those things doesn't make you right, just unknowing. *
> 
> For some reason Buick owners love their Buicks, but that doesn't make Buicks a good, or even a competent, automobile.


It's often self-delusion to consider yourself more knowledgeable than someone else. Thanks for proving my point.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Different Strokes for Different Folk's.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion, it does not make them wrong.
I know plenty of Buick owner's that are very happy.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

They may not be everyone's first choice (including mine), but IPs have a well deserved reputation as solid blue-water cruising boats. Like any boat, they have their strengths and weaknesses of both design and construction. But when things get snotty off-shore, I'd rather be aboard an IP than the vast majority of production boats (there are some I'd prefer to be aboard rather than an IP, but they're all in good company). 

There are plenty of smaller IP models available on the used market.

As for the SP cruiser, I agree with Giulietta, there is something intriguing about it and there are some very clever aspects to the design layout both on deck and below. Most boats today follow an extremely formulaic layout. Unfortuantely, that formula is not ideal for a lot of circumstances. Families in particular are always looking for arrangements that allow members to spread out and find privacy. A second cockpit above decks, and partitioned cabins with communal space below is highly desirable. The SP arrangement reminds me of the original Tartan 4600, which had dual cockpits and an unorthodox interior as well.

We sailed very closely past the SP cruiser last fall off Annapolis. It looks better in person than in drawings.


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## Joesaila (May 19, 2007)

IMHO....IP's are the Volvo of sailboats. They are very solid and roomy. We nearly purchased one and now everytime my wife and I sail by one its "there's a Packet!" and we're not alone. Someday I'd like to have one.


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

The IP SP would be an OK boat - IF - it had an outside steering station. I only motored a little while from inside my boat and it sucked. No way would I stay inside all the time. Driving with a remote control from somewhere outside on the IP SP would be cute for a while but it aint sailing, motorsailing, or even motoring for me.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I don't know . . . there's something a bit off about the lines, but for some strange reason I sort of like it.​


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## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

TB.... That picture of the IP SP with sails up heeling quite bit is probably only in 10kts of wind  The IP sailboats over the years have been 40+ % B/D for a stiff boat but the SP has only 5,000lbs of balast for a 23,000lb boat. I know there is more involved than simply B/D ratios ......but it sure as hell aint gonna be stiff


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Christyleigh-

That's to make up for the undersized sails on the SP.


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## CISCOJOE (Aug 28, 2001)

oh well...f.w.i.w i owned and sailed an ip 38 for 7 years. found her to be a terrific coastal cruiser and strong, solid, bluewater boat as well -which included a bermuda crossing in some nasty weather. excellent factory support even though i purchased her as a 10 year old used.boat. also, there is a great group of folks on the island packet discussion group who are very willingly to share info and experience.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

JohnRPollard said:


> ...there is something intriguing about it and there are some very clever aspects to the design layout both on deck and below. Most boats today follow an extremely formulaic layout. Unfortuantely, that formula is not ideal for a lot of circumstances.


That was pretty much my point in starting this thread...to see how the SailNet community feels about designs that are somewhat unorthodox. I like that some of the IP's stand out from the crowd aesthetically. I'll reserve my judgement about build quality and bluewater capabilities until I have a closer inspection and a chance to sail a couple of them.

All in all, great discussion!


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## speciald (Mar 27, 2007)

Remember that Island Packet made a Cat for a few years - it couldn't get out of its own way. These boats tend to be tender so they are underpowered and sslloowww. They will get you there eventually as they are well made, but don't hold lunch.


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## conchcruzer (Aug 18, 2004)

*Well said*

Kwaltersmi,

You said, "I'll reserve my judgement about build quality and bluewater capabilities until I have a closer inspection and a chance to sail a couple of them."

Great idea. Do yourself a favor and make a close inspection. Also, your welcome to lurk or join in on the chats on the sailnet message board for Island Packet owners. Many owners have owned other brands and will give you straight talk and fair comparisons of the pros and cons of different designs and builders.

If I'd followed some of the advice on this board, I'd have a rapidly deteriorating, rapidly depreciating "performance cruiser" with a jerry can farm on deck and a caulking gun on hand to seal up all the leaks. 

There are faster boats, there are cheaper boats, there are better looking boats, there are heavier boats, and there are (a few) higher quality boats. Somewhere in the middle of all that, I have found the best of these to suit my intended purpose--an open ended voyage of the Caribbean (to start with)--who knows where it will lead. After three years of cruising and living aboard, I am wholly satisfied with my decision to go with an IP.

Cheers, 
Dan 
S/V Eventyr
IP40-129
www.ipphotos.com/eventyr


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

While I'm not personally a big fan of the IP's as a cruising boat...they are pretty well made and there are a lot of satisfied owners out there and they hold their value pretty well. I can't thinik of a brand that does a better job of supporting its' owners and that is worth a lot too.


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## conchcruzer (Aug 18, 2004)

*Interesting Thread*

Camaraderie,

I'm interested in your post. While I don't suffer the delusion that my boat is the best there is and that it is perfect for everyone, I did carefully evaluate all the possible candidates in my price/size range and still feel the IP was a good choice.

The things I like about it for cruising are:
1. High quality construction and good resale value
2. Excellent customer support from the factory
3. High quality hardware and fittings, e.g. rubber gasketed stainless ports with safety glass inserts and dogs rather than plastic ports with little clips
4. Functional layout (very large galley, good sea berths in salon and aft cabin, salon table folds away when not in use, chart stowage drawer, extensive, compartmented stowage throughout, roomy midship master berth with numerous drawers and cabinets, etc.)
5. Large tankage (90g diesel/170g water)
6. Stout cutter rig with all sail handling from cockpit
7. Good overall performance--hull speed is 8 knots and not uncommon under sail 
8. Stout, integral pulpit with two large and well designed captive anchor rollers
9. Full, integral keel with long, tapered leading edge
10. Clean weather decks for going forward
11. Good seakeeping/solid ride and excellent tracking and handling in heavy seas
12. Properly ventilated for life in the tropics with 7 hatches and 13 opening ports
13. Naturally-aspirated Yanmar diesel
14. Long cockpit seats
15. High quality systems (tinned wiring, proper fuel filters and fittings, well supported plumbing, deep bilge sump, etc.)

What specific design features or concepts about the IP do you find unsuitable for cruising? I understand that cruising is not the same for everyone. I'd like your opinion on this.

Cheers, 
Dan 
S/V Eventyr
IP40
www.ipphotos.com/eventyr


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Conchcruzer:

I know your question was directed to Camaraderie, and I'm sure he'll respond (or maybe has by the time I hit "submit"), but hopefully you won't mind if I comment as well.

First, I will repeat that I like IPs in general. I have never met a single owner that wasn't very happy with theirs. That speaks volumes and no one considering an IP should discount that. I have heard of some complaints about chainplate problems, particularly in the older 38s, but that may be an isolated issue, and all boats have problems of some kind or another that will eventually show up if they stay afloat long enough.

That said, I will comment on a few items from your list below:

1. High quality construction and good resale value.

Agreed. However, when I was considering the IPs before we purchased our most recent boat, I found the resale value was not as solid as the other brand we were considering -- Pacific Seacraft. (But now that PSC is bankrupt, all bets are off). Still, they do hold their value remarkably well.

2. Excellent customer support from the factory.

By all accounts, you are absolutely correct. We had that from PSC up until abut two years ago, when someone else took over and the rest is history. 

3. High quality hardware and fittings, e.g. rubber gasketed stainless ports with safety glass inserts and dogs rather than plastic ports with little clips. 

In general yes, but the portlights were one of the things I did not like about the IPs. For instance, they are not through-bolted into the coachroof, but rather are screwed in place and trimmed on the exterior with a ring that is also merely screwed into the fibreglass. PSC portlights, for instance, have all the features you describe but are solid bronze and through-bolted.

7. Good overall performance--hull speed is 8 knots and not uncommon under sail.

Many owners acknowledge that their IPs are not the most weatherly designs. But that is not necessarily the highest priority for cruisers.

9. Full, integral keel with long, tapered leading edge

One of the things that has always bothered me about IP is that they use a concrete/iron slurry for ballast. Except for the cost, lead is almost universally acknowledged as a better material for ballast. And many folks prefer that it be mounted externally for grounding protection.

We were looking for a solid cruising boat that had better performance than the full-keeled IPs, which is how we ended up with our fin-keeled Pacific Seacraft. I think our PSC will out sail comparable sized IPs, but I will freely admit that at anchor, where we -like most folks - spend most of our time, I would not at all mind having the volume of the IP. They are nice boats and I'd be proud to own one.

Regarding the SP cruiser, in my earlier post I should have added that I don't think they got it quite right (I'd rather see less "motor" and more "sailer"), but who does the first time around? Unlike Pacific Seacraft (which worked hard to develop good designs then stuck with them for decades), IP has a history of steady product development, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see this model evolve into something more palatable in time. But I give them kudos for trying something new (at least for them), particularly with repsect to the deck and cabin layouts.


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## Pamlicotraveler (Aug 13, 2006)

The fact that there are lots of happy IP owners means more than just about anything in my book. The people I have met sailing love their IPs, and it's obvious they are solidly built.

They are what they are and don't pretend to be something they are not. Compare that with some of the companies that are advertising an edge in technology, speed, knowledge, and overall quality but have droves of unhappy owners on this board and others and seem as though they couldn't care less.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Dan...John certainly gave a good overview about my thoughts (and then some) and I would not dispute any of the points in your listing. My preferences in a cruising boat are for something that goes a bit better to windward and has a more sea-kindly motion at sea. I would direct you back to what JeffH wrote you in 2004 about motion at sea which agrees with what I know about the hull form as well
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43940&postcount=3
I also prefer a center cockpit layout and I think that the only CC IP has is designed poorly w/ a totally ridiculous diagonal aft cabin berth. I made a trip to the boat show when it was being introduced especially to look at it since it fit our basic requirements and was on and off the boat in less than 5 minutes. 
Note that I do not expect my preferences to be yours...and every boat has its' compromises. I've known a lot of IP owners both in the Chesapeake and through the Bahamas and all seem quite happy with their choices.


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## conchcruzer (Aug 18, 2004)

*Thanks*

John,

Thanks for your comments and perspective. Your comparison to Pacific Seacraft is very reasonable.

In addition to what I said earlier:

1. Yes, older model IPs have concrete and iron. My keel is filled with lead (model year 1999). All the newer IPs are lead ballasted. This is a debatable subject as I've not heard of any problems with the older iron ballasted keels, but I'm sure if there are I'll be corrected. In my own personal opinion, I don't like keel bolts.

2. I definitely didn't purchase my boat for her windward performance! She'll go, but somewhat reluctantly. Sail trim is important and my sheeting angles are of course limited by the outboard shrouds.

3. I think that resale value, expressed as a percentage of original MSRP, is very favorable. I haven't studied the numbers for PS, but consider that if IP is lagging, it is by a small margin.

4. I like PS design and quality. I strongly considered a PS37 but found it a bit cramped for my primary residence. If I were going solo, it would have been less of an issue (you know what I mean and who I'm talking about here!). Performance wise (the members here love PHRF numbers) the PS37 rates 174 while the IP40 rates 168. The PS37 is smaller, but it's a wash to me.

5. The ports on the PS are excellent design and quality. I do prefer the PS installation overall, however I like the polished look of the stainless and have yet to have a drop of seawater come through a closed port on the IP.

6. Most fin keelers will outsail most full keelers in most conditions. The PS has the added advantage of a narrower beam and is thus more easily driven. In my style of cruising, I'm under sail about 1 day in 10 and living at anchor the rest fo the time, so the nod went to the IP.

7. If a PS 40 or 44 were outfitted equally to my IP for the same price, I likely would have gone with a PS.

Cheers, 
Dan


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

My wife and I are close friends with a couple who have been living full time on their IP44 and their prior IP38, for a combined total of 14 years. The boat is perfect for them and they obviously love Island Packets . . . even named their dog Packet.

It's normally a tough life living onboard through that many new England winters, but the boat is well suited to liveaboards. We visit them regularly all year long, including the tradition of their annual New Years' party onboard. 

Last November, we went sailing with them on Narragansett Bay for a few hours and we all had a great time. Only used the motor for getting in and out of the marina. Although no speed records were broken, I found the sailing to be very stable and comfortable. 

It's a great boat that caters to a specific market and successfully I would say.


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## conchcruzer (Aug 18, 2004)

*Thank Camaraderie*

Camaraderie,

Thanks for your reply as well. Yes, I recall Jeff H's post from several years ago.

I agree with Jeff H on most of his points regarding_ conceptual design_. As an engineer, I know that everything that follows the design phase is better grounded in reality. While a narrow, easily driven hull suits passagemaking, I've yet to find a builder that adequately executes this while providing acceptable accommodations (and size/length) in a well executed package that I can afford. A narrow beam and deep fin keel are not better unless the tradeoffs are acceptable.

My experience indicates that performance cruisers in Jeff H's approved purchase list are seldom seen out actually cruising in the Carib. When you do see them, they are typically covered in deck boxes and jerry cans due to inadequate storage and tankage. There are exceptions, your mileage may vary, etc.

As an example, a performance oriented cruiser that I like is the Saga 43. Relatively narrow beam, long waterline, modern underbody, etc. But look now at the status of the company that builds them--not good. Warranty? Customer support? I don't know what you could expect. While I don't have first hand experience, crews have reported that they are very noisy when underway in seas due to the fact that the interior is screwed together and is working and noisily complaining about it. They also report general problems with leakage in the fixed portlights (something I dislike in general) and other design issues.

I disagree with Jeff H's comment about IP quality. I think he's way off.

I understand your comment about the diagonal berths in IP's center cockpit models (BTW, they now have three). I like the 485 especially, with this exception. We'll see how this holds up in subsequent design evolutions.

The Caliber 40, a vessel that is more often approved by list members has a PHRF rating of 144. My IP40 rates 168. Two points: 1. On a typical island-to-island passage of say 60 miles, this yields a time difference of about 20 minutes and is not terribly significant on a voyage of 3-10 years; 2. I've yet to see a Caliber 40, Tayana 37, Endeavor 42, or other comparable size cruising boat walk away from me (in fact, I have found the opposite to be true).

Cheers, 
Dan


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

They are roomy and well-constructed but in that price range you can probably get a much more versatile, faster boat that will also be well-constructed. I know that you are not in a race but if you are doing blue water passages a slower boat can make your trip days longer. I'm also not a big fan of their looks but I recognize that that is wholly objective and that some people find them to be beautiful. Full disclosure: I have not sailed on them.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Dan,

My apologies, and thank you very much for correcting my information about the IP ballast. I was unaware that they had made the changeover, which is certainly for the better. I will file that away in the cobwebs and hopefully remember the model year date of the change.

As for the PSC comparison, it was interesting to hear that you had considered the Crealock 37. I know exactly what you mean about where the extra volume requirement was coming from -- and that is a very legitimate perspective that must not be trifled with. 

Regarding relative speed of the respective designs, if it's any consolation to you a Crealock 37 owner once complained to me that an IP 38 had shown him its stern reaching down Chesapeake Bay in a blow. I think the PSC's primary advantage is in close-hauled sailing upwind, when the waterline gets extended, and the relatively narrow beam coupled with the fin keel kicks in. The price of that is less interior volume for accomodation and much deeper draft.

Enjoy your nice boat!


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

OK IP owners.. Can you explain to me why the steering rod from the helm to the aft transom is there and not a safety hazard. I like IP's except for this one thing at the helm station. I don't like my movement impeded when I am at the helm. 
Also, I am not a big fan of the full keel design either but the under-body has been redesigned recently for better maneuvering. 
If anyone is interested in buying one, I would suggest chartering one first to see if they really like them before plucking down all that money only to find out they don't like the boat. I know down in St Thomas one can charter an IP.


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## dave6330 (Aug 16, 2006)

At the risk of displaying my absolute ignorance, I have to ask what's so bad about the diagonal berth? Our boat has a traditional V and (large) quarter berths in the stern but I don't intuitively see the disadvantage of the angled stern berth in, say, the IP370.


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

Not having slept in it, this is an assumption. Normally, in a V-Berth or quarter berth, you will primarily be rocking on a single axis - head to toe or vice-versa, with only a slight side to side rock based upon your sleeping position. In the diagonal berth, you will be rocking on two different axes. In heavier seas (at anchor, mooring or even in a slip) I would think this could cause a very uncomfortable motion.


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## conchcruzer (Aug 18, 2004)

*IP Steering*

Around 1988/1989/1990, IP changed this feature. My 1999 40 has a Whitlock Cobra steering pedestal.

If that was the only thing you didn't like, then consider yourself converted.

Dan 
S/V Eventyr


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## David Neelon (Feb 20, 2002)

My IP 350, Unity, was second in class in the 2002 Caribbean 1500 on adjusted time, finishing behind a Shannon 38 and ahead of a PS37, not that anyone was racing. It was a rough passage with 3 days of gales and high seas, conditions for which all three designs were well suited. We've sailed the boat in the Virgin Islands for two winters and loved its comfort, storage, and sailing performance. It's fun when the Christmas winds pipe up to 30 knots, the lightweight charter boats are getting pounded and running for shelter, and we're reaching across the channel at 7.5 - 8.0 under staysail and single reefed main, with all hands dry and happy.

The new center cockpits are getting very expensive, but there are plenty of older, smaller IP's in the market at moderate prices, still well suited to cruising and passage-making. To see if you'd like them, next time you charter, try an IP. Companies in Florida, the Pacific NW, and the USVI have them available.

David Neelon
IP 350 Unity


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Dan...just to be clear...my reference to Jeff's post was on hull form and motion only as far as my agreement. If you check the acrchives you will find that Jeff and I disagree rather largely on the type of boat we would find suitable for cruising. Indeed, I'd rather have a packet than some of his favorites...which doesn't negate his thoughts either but once again proves...different strokes for different folks. I think the discussion here helps newbies make better judgements about what their cruising style will be and what is important to them so it is useful from that standpoint. 
My personal preference is for a long but not too deep fin keel and skeg rudder in a medium heavy displacement hull that does not carry its' beam all the way aft but is not pinched either. Second choice would be a full or semi-full keel like yours or some other older brands. Neither keel type would be a deal killer for me as I am more focused on comfortable motion at sea and living aboard accomodations and systems since that is 9/10th of your life!


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## conchcruzer (Aug 18, 2004)

*In The End. . .*

Camaraderie,

In the end it seems that we are generally in agreement. If my boat were offered with the option of the underbody you describe, I would be happy with that as well.

As you say, different strokes for different folks. Therein lies my purpose in all of these posts. I feel it is a disservice to prospective buyers/cruisers to not provide a counterpoint or alternate view, especially on this thread.

I generally lurk on this forum and then only on occasion. It's funny how often a seasoned member of this board states his opinion and half a dozen regulars chime in with "yeah, me too" or "yeah, what he said."

One of my first posts on this thread was about the moment, on a midnight watch, that I realized what the IP was really all about. As the wind continued to build, I put down my book, released the clutches, took in some sail, scanned the horizon, and settled back in to my book.

Regards, 
Dan 
S/V Eventyr
IP40-129
www.ipphotos.com/eventyr


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I just read an article about the new island packet 465 center cockpit. It seems like a great boat for long distance cruising, however I am sure it lacks the performance of other boats. Regardless, Island Packets are well made boats, and are extremely seaworthy.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Dan,
It's obvious that your boat fits your needs.
If you're happy and your mate is happy, than nothing else matters.
I have been checking out your web page and it is very impressive.
I find it very inspirational and I will try and get my wife to read it as well.
I'm sure she will also see it as an inspiration.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Dan...for many of us "old timers"..."ditto" is exactly what we feel on many issues...but you will find some disagreement like monohulls vs. training wheels!! Anyway..I hope this thread has restored some of the IP lustre to non-owners and presented a more balanced view of the boat for others to use in forming their opinions.


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## paulsailorirish (Dec 2, 2006)

*ip 35*

in general ip s are very well constructed and looked after by their owners with first class factory support - for these reasons alone they offer exceptional value when purchased second hand .

the sailing characteristics are best at 12knots plus and the easily handle 25-30 knot winds - the stay sail is particularily useful in a blow and motor sailing.
they will sail 45- 40 degrees off the wind and will truck along holding their course well due to the full keel.

the interior is roomy ,well designed and robust. It has character.

The older designs 32,35,38 are in my view much prettier than some of the newer designs, the 35 in particular has particularily balanced and beautiful lines. Bob johnson needs to give this more consideration ,the 485 and sp are not particularily pleasing to the eye.

manouvering in close qtrs can be tricky and benefits from bow thrusters - with experiece you will learn to reverse but it does take practise .

rgds
paul c

tenacious 
IP35-146


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## Bermuda (Jan 30, 2001)

*Bored or Punched? That is the question?*

Years ago when the Sailnet forums were in their neophyte phase and I became a member there were many more sailors who would listen rather than be so opinionated about what a sailboat should be. Today however is a different story. I'm afraid that many who lurk around these forums and bash one brand or the other dont have a clue as to whether their hole was bored or punched. Of course not knowing should not excuse the angry boat opinion. We sailors are supposed to be a civilized group (educated, intellegent, worldly) but I am afraid that since some are able to hide behind a forum monniker or nickname they just cant keep it civilized.

I enjoy two lives, one who builds houses and buildings and the other who loves "messing around in boats". I have been a builder of one type of building or another for most of my 65 years and have been teaching bluewater sailing and delivering boats professionally for quite awhile now when I have the time. The "messing around" started aboard a 16 foot, wooden, gaff rigged junk on the Charles River in Boston in 1952 and so I actually do know the answer to "bored or punched" but I will leave it to the imagination of the angry IP detractors.

No boat manufacturer can create a one size fits all, mere impossibility, so just aint gonna happen. Many here are actually meanspirited in their posts when they could more easily get their opinion across by making a simple and factual comment, of course they would have to know the facts but unfortunately most that have nothing good to bring to the party as they have never sailed an Island Packet in a freshing breeze on a bay let alone in weather offshore. People who live by, and quote the comments and opinions of others are also doing themselves and those new to sailing a big injustice, if you dont know, keep your fingers off the keyboard. If you havent done it yourself try and temper your opinion and in most cases you should keep quiet and listen to those that have. Many of the comments on this site just fortify the fact that *most* written within these these pages is of absulutely no use to anyone looking for the "truth".

Is the IP the boat you want for wednesday night races around the bouys? Of course not. But as to the IP being "limited only to that of a coastal cruiser", this is an absurd statement. IP's have been kicking butt offshore for many years. IP's consistanly place high or win top honors in the Caribbean 1500. An IP-35 has won first place honors more than once during Bermuda races. I believe that last year in the Marion to Bermuda Race an IP-35 won first place in the celestial group of its class. As a delivery skipper I have personally sailed and/or delivered nearly every model of Island Packet and would not hesitate, if given the opportunity, to sail any one of them transatlantic. BTW, I should mention that I too am an IP owner having owned an IP32 since 1997 and have sailed her more than twenty thousand NM offshore, including five round trips, NY to Bermuda and one outbound Bermuda leg singlehanded.

Speaking to the PS croud let me say that during an offshore delivery of a 37 one fact rang true, it was without question the wettest boat I ever sailed, especially in the cockpit. In seas above 6 feet it sailed like a submarine. On the other hand, when delivering the last Sabre 362 ever built she was easily the wettest boat below. Then there are the Benetoes, Catalinas, that for the most part intimidate me offshore. With just a 70sf trisail they get air in winds above 30 Kts, not a comfortable ride at all and in the same seaway my 32 will allow a full sailplan with a single reef in the mainsail.

Besides the Island Packet family some of my favorite offshore boats are the 38 thru 43 Shannons which in serious seas, glide along like a 62 Cadillac. If that sounds like a plug it isnt though I'm also a delivery skipper for the Shannon factory. They do however allow such a comforting ride I sleep like a baby in rough weather, albeit at the cost of a few more pesos for the fine design and workmanship offered up by Walter and his gang in Bristol.

Each manufacturer brings something different to the party but none of what I see is enough to get me angry. Truth be known, before we bought our IP we were working on purchasing a new 36' Catalina with Backyard Boats in Annapolis. In the meantime, while walking the docks of the Clearwater Florida Municipal Marina on a visit to my daughter we happened upon a proud IP owner who invited us aboard, the rest is history. If you told me the day before that I was going to cancel the Catalina deal and buy a five year old, smaller boat, for more money I would have said you were crazy but that is exactly what happened and I have never regretted the change.

The IP is certainly not for everybody, one comment from a gal about the wheel shaft being in the way on some models is one reason, however the same thing would hold true for her on bicycles


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

The IP is certainly not for everybody, one comment from a gal about the wheel shaft being in the way on some models is one reason, however the same thing would hold true for her on bicycles [/quote]

All of your above comments were good until you said the above. You just lost all creditability with that statement.


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## sailing320 (Jul 5, 2007)

I own an IP320. The factory has always given me great service. The boat is built tough. The only problem is it sails to slow. Unless I have 15+ winds the boat does not move. I would like to find a boat under 40' that is the same quality but sails faster.


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## Pamlicotraveler (Aug 13, 2006)

Bermuda, Your comments were good, but the problem she probably was referring to the steering was the rack and pinion steering shaft on older IPs (I think it changed somewhere along the line...am I right?)...It is awkward, or sure seems like it would be because there is a shaft from the pedestal to the transom as I recall. So that was a legitimate issue. We have a Shannon by the way, so I agree with everything you said about them.


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## Bermuda (Jan 30, 2001)

*Island Packet Rack and Pinion Steering Shaft*

I too did realize she was speaking to the steering shaft of the rack and pinion system of the older boats, and for some of what she said, I agree with her. My boat too has that setup and it is certainly something to consider when purchasing one but not enough to condemn the boat.

BTW, for the most part my comment was tongue in cheek though she did offer up her rack & "opinion" with a little attitude. "OK IP Owners ..tell me what >>>>>>>bla bla????" Something to that effect/


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I like IPs better than most other production boats. I've only sailed on one, when I reviewed the IP 420 for the TV show. It was in Newport Beach, CA, and the day I was there was a strong "Santa Anna" day - hot winds of 35-40 screaming down out of the desert and off the hills out to sea. The broker there that day was mostly a powerboater, and was reluctant to take her out for the test sail portion of the review, asking if I could come back when the winds subsided. When I spoke about it with Karsten Johnson at IP (son of Bob Johnson, the founder/architect), Karsten was extremely disappointed, as those were conditions he felt the boat would have excelled in handling. When I went back a few weeks later, the wind was 5-8 kts with flat seas. Still, we were able to get the boat to ghost along.

My other observation is that when I have been in Fiji, Tonga, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, and the BVIs, obviously I saw more Beneteaus and Jeaneaus than any other production boat. After those, the boat I saw third most often? Island Packets. As unscientific as that is, I think it says a lot.


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