# Can SailNet really claim to be the Largest online Sailing community any more?



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

I have been a member here for a while now and I have noticed a seemingly steady decline it active users.

This place has always seemed to shut down in the late hours of PST anyway...so I have always had to go elsewhere to find people up and conversing at that time...but other then that...it seems we are losing our market share on a whole.

Whats going on?

As an example right now I show 15 new post since my last log in.... another forum Im a member on shows 4 pages in the same length of time.


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

Stillraining said:


> another forum Im a member on shows 4 pages in the same length of time.


What forum?


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

SA ALWAYS has more posts in a given time than here. BUT< they area a different breed and topics too!


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

blt2ski said:


> SA ALWAYS has more posts in a given time than here. BUT< they area a different breed and topics too!


It aint *SA*....(or the inverse).......Guess again...

I am a member there as well, but rarly go there anymore...it just isnt a very frendly place...to much totsorone for me... ....have met a couple of my faviort people there though...The atmospher is Just not what im looking for.


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## Capnblu (Mar 17, 2006)

With video's like you had posted a few days ago Still, things will pick up i am thinking. It motivated me to take the video camera into the shop the other day, instead of just a camera. One day I will be finished my refit, and have time to learn how to edit and post them too.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I knew it was not the inverse, that place is deader than a dead doornail. 

SA does have more posts, but as you say, testosterone or equal does not make it always fun to go to. These along with jeanneau-owners.com are the only ones I go to. 

DO not know which one you are looking at. We also start weekend race late August, not sure what Milea is up to.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Forums are a roller coaster. It seems if they are too large, often times I feel like they lack a closeness. If they are too small, they can be downright boring or annoying when the same user is constantly maintaining/starting topics. Maybe sailnet is teetering or in a flux of sorts. Some-days there appears to be many active topics, some not so many. It's definitely easier to lurk than participate for me. I'm still learning and reading so I find myself just hanging out behind someones shoulder listening more than anything.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Capnblu said:


> With video's like you had posted a few days ago Still, things will pick up i am thinking. It motivated me to take the video camera into the shop the other day, instead of just a camera. One day I will be finished my refit, and have time to learn how to edit and post them too.


Kind words..... but I doubt it...it died very quickly...not even one comment on the finished product....I aint no MaineSail it apears...LOL...:laugher

Yours will be better Im sure.


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

Stillraining said:


> It aint *SA*....(or the inverse).......Guess again...


Why is it a mystery?


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## therapy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

Part of it may be that it is soooo Sloooowwww.
None others are.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Scott,

From what I can ascertain the four leading sail oriented sites are

SailNet
Sailing Anarchy
YBW (British, hosted by Yachting Monthly)
Cruisers Forum

Stats for the last three months show SA as the clear market leader on average with the other three usually very close and often changing positions. Right now SailNet is 2nd to SA. In the Cruising sector Sailnet would be #1 at the moment as SA is more active in the racing sector. YBW is very active in Cruising but also has a large racing base so for Cruisers I'd think the most traffic is shared by CF and SailNet with Sailnet ahead at the moment. This holds true for the last month also but CF has higher figures than SN the last seven days.

Now....these are WWW stats. Looked at for the US alone then Sailnet seems to have the numbers on the other three. So it appears (and I didn't do any serious analysis) that SailNet is the "Largest Online Sailing Community" in America if not internationally.

(Refer Alexa.com for internet traffic stats.)

but always remember.....
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."Benjamin Disraeli​


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

lydanynom said:


> Why is it a mystery?


It was a play on words as he was so sure of the answer...

Don't need to steer any more people away that's not my intent..so a mystery it will remain....just pondering the issue is all.

Why so many "Lurkers" and not more posters?...are we to harsh on the "Same ol questions" from new members? I can answer a big fat YES to that on one recent thread and I wanted to slap someone.......but that cant be it on a whole can it..?

After all Im still here and I don't take very much of that for very long as some of you who know me, and know about past happenings here.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Hmmm!

Ok I'll have to take that as Gospel Andrew...as I have no way to refruit it...Im happy to hear it but my screen just doent line up with it for some reason. ( takes me 3 times as long to sacn the new post in the other one)

Maybe you guys have me locked out of all the good stuff going one around here.......probably rightly so...

Carry on!....another dead thread I started..:laugher


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Stillraining said:


> Why so many "Lurkers" and not more posters?...are we to harsh on the "Same ol questions" from new members? I can answer a big fat YES to that on one recent thread and I wanted to slap someone.......but that cant be it on a whole can it..?


Is that kind of crap really still going on around here? I haven't seen nearly as much lately. What thread? Let me at 'em!

I have actually seen quite a few new people posting that I'd not noticed before and/or that just joined up.

TDW is right on the stats. It's actually been a great year according to the numbers.


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

Stillraining said:


> Don't need to steer any more people away that's not my intent..so a mystery it will remain....


Well, if this place is so bad that a mere glance at another option is going to woo us away then it deserves to die.

I'm sure that's not the case, though, and in any event most of us no doubt read many forums at the same time.


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

> With video's like you had posted a few days ago Still, things will pick up i am thinking.


After seeing Capnblu mention of some videos, I did a search to go see what he was talking about. Holy cow Scott! I usually don't watch videos if they're over a couple minutes, or unless they involve big boobs, but I watched everyone of your floor project videos. Thanks for sharing. Learned a few tricks and have a couple more tools on the wish list.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Reality is that in the overall scheme of things, the traffic for any of the sites is relatively low so if one site has a particularly popular thread then it will jump ahead for a few days or weeks. It varies an awful lot. As an example, SA went ballistic while the America's Cup was on but has dropped back significantly since.

On a personal level I am very fond of Cruising Anarchy due to some wonderful people , like YBW for its non American bias, mean to spend more time on Cruisers Forum but somehow never do perhaps because its a bit stodgey and post most often here partly out of habit, partly due to the moderating thing and partly due to the people. Overall I find SN the most satisfying. I'd also like to spend more time on other sites (Anything Sailing being an obvious example) but there is only so much time.


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## messer999 (Aug 3, 2009)

Now I am just guessing here, but in the Northern Hemisphere it is summer and a lot of us are out... on our boats! Cuz that's what we do. What a concept!!! LOL


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## dnf777 (Jun 23, 2007)

Just a casual observation from a relatively new member here.....

I find this forum very similar to other, non-related forums I belong to. As a new member, you'll get hearty welcomes and well-wishes from a core group of enthusiasts. These same people will be the ones who answer many of your questions, and friendly banter as time goes by.

Most questions posed to the group will be answered by well-meaning, but often conflicting views in the first page or so. By the second or third page, many threads will degenerate into those conflicting views then assaulting one another. Actually, this forum has much less of that than several others, to its credit!

But there is a predictable pattern of 1)question or comment posed 2) good answers or discussion 3) differing opinions 4) egos begin to infiltrate and it becomes less than a friendly discussion 5) threads usually die at this point, or else bloodshed ensues. (again, this forum is better than most, in that regard as well)

Internet forums seem to be our 21st century version of kicking the dog. I think many people, if dealt with face to face, would be friendly and courteous. The anonymity of the computer screen emboldens some to vent their egos or frustrations, that often manifests in thread decay.

Then there are the pure ravel-rousers who will wait until a thread has already begun to get confrontational before jumping in....and then add to the fury. 

Overall, I've found this forum very useful and helpful, with many good people. More so than most of the other forums I post on. It does seem a little lonely and slow sometimes, but I chalked that up to the season....lots of folks out sailing and not sitting on the computers.

cheers all


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## MARC2012 (Mar 17, 2008)

Ditto TOO DAMN SLOW.Except for this am it did not work at all.mj


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## tomandchris (Nov 11, 2009)

It must be August! Yup, it is. Seems like every year about this time the question comes up....where is everyone. It has already been answered....working on or sailing their boat.

A large contingent on this board seems to be from the Northeast, Canada, the Midwest, etc.. It is a short season, life and work still goes on, and the snow is coming. I think the answer is pretty obvious every year, but it naturally gets asked once again.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

IMO some of the people that used to make Sailnet interesting and informative were driven away by site policies. (Then a couple of them were driven away from the site they moved to.) Plus SN has annoyed me so thoroughly, several times, that it doesn't really feel like "home" anymore, and hasn't for some time. Whereas I used to camp out on SN pretty much exclusively, I now track two other sailing-related sites, as well. None of the three of them are as interesting as SN, alone, used to be, so I'm not much a participant anymore.

Jim


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

SEMIJim said:


> IMO some of the people that used to make Sailnet interesting and informative were driven away by site policies. (Then a couple of them were driven away from the site they moved to.) Plus SN has annoyed me so thoroughly, several times, that it doesn't really feel like "home" anymore, and hasn't for some time. Whereas I used to camp out on SN pretty much exclusively, I now track two other sailing-related sites, as well. None of the three of them are as interesting as SN, alone, used to be, so I'm not much a participant anymore.
> 
> Jim


C'mon Semi - buck up. Have some fun!

I'm a member of pretty much every sailing forum out there and SN is still interesting as hell.

There are great people here...including you, you cranky old grammarian. Why you taught me the art of multi-quoting! That's something isn't it?


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## JonnyQuest (Apr 27, 2010)

*New members*



smackdaddy said:


> Is that kind of crap really still going on around here? I haven't seen nearly as much lately. What thread? Let me at 'em!
> 
> I have actually seen quite a few new people posting that I'd not noticed before and/or that just joined up.
> 
> TDW is right on the stats. It's actually been a great year according to the numbers.


As a new member, I pop back and forth between here and the Oday Owners Forum at sailboatowners.com (the other for more specific Oday threads), and have been thoroughly enjoying the regular talk here on SN.

Joined about a month ago and while I have scanned the other forums, SN has my vote. Helpful, and the razzing has been quite fun to follow.:laugher. My all time favorite goes to the infamous "*cruising with bull dogs*" thread with DogSailors and her three genius Bull Terriers!

Carry on!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

JonnyQuest said:


> My all time favorite goes to the infamous "*cruising with bull dogs*" thread with DogSailors and her three genius Bull Terriers!


Hellz yeah JQ! That is freakin' epic. She came back to the forum for a while recently talking about a new boat she was going to buy.

She's actually a pretty cool chick. Her name is Marl-something-or-other.

PS - Have you read through the "Solar Stik" debacle? That's another monster.


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

You guys really need to be linking this stuff. The only thing a search for "Solar Stik" finds is this thread.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

You asked for it:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/30050-effectiveness-solar-wind.html

See you in, like, a year.

After that - you need to read FightClub (the best sailing forum thread ever). Those were heady days too.


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

For those who think a decline may be due to more folks out sailing in the summer, I would point out that just the opposite is true for those of us in the southern U.S. You will find most of us sailing only in the winter, spring and fall and on here only in summer.


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## LittleWingCA (Jul 17, 2008)

It is summer here in California. The winds have been very good this year, and I have been out sailing. Time does fly though.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

I think some of it is folks like me eating bandwidth. I've noticed a distinct lack of responses on my threads too or maybe folks really are out sailing...


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## nightowle (Aug 2, 2006)

for an 'enthusiast' forum, compared to cars or something else similar....the numbers here are definitely high. Advertisers at other enthusiast forums would give a left nut (or maybe not!) for such numbers. I tend to read more here than leave comments. I guess I don't have the years of expertise that many of you have.....but, damn.......I've sure learned a lot here. Many thanks to all of you. I'll be hanging at SN as long as I continue to sail! One of these days I'd like to meet some of the posters face to face.


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

tdw said:


> From what I can ascertain the four leading sail oriented sites are
> 
> SailNet
> Sailing Anarchy
> ...


What about SailboatOwners?


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

CharlieCobra said:


> I think some of it is folks like me eating bandwidth. I've noticed a distinct lack of responses on my threads too or maybe folks really are out sailing...


Come on Charles, you have been around long enough to know SN is seasonal. When sailNet is jumping we in Oz are out on the water and vice verce. I will kick of another tread in the new year when we head back out into the pacific. I to belong to some other sailing/cruising forums but keep coming back.....home.
There was once a great bunch of guys here that just clicked and put s h i t on each other but in a good way and without malice, it may happen again and I hope to be part of it again.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

It's all perspective. In terms of traffic and reach, SN is doing better than it has ever done since I've been here (from 2008).

That's gotta tell you something.

I don't know how many times I heard dudes ringing the death knell for SN (or just trying to burn it down). Of course, those were always the dudes with their "sandbox agendas".

So, it's all good!


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Lots of traffic at Sailboatowners.com..


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Maine Sail said:


> Lots of traffic at Sailboatowners.com..





> We'd love to show you this page, we really would, but to protect our community from spam you must login to see it.


Yeah, casual visitors being able to _read_ web pages increases spam. 

(Btw: Most assuredly not a criticism of you, MS, just st00pid site policies.)

Jim


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## MarioG (Sep 6, 2009)

I figure I'm just to new at this to give any useful information and that just leaves the smart ass in me. 

a more fair idea would be to see how many people just click in to read post to see which is # 1 , I seldom get past the first page on SA before I click back here.

Thanks to all for alot of good information over the last yr or so


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

SEMIJim said:


> Yeah, casual visitors being able to _read_ web pages increases spam.
> 
> (Btw: Most assuredly not a criticism of you, MS, just st00pid site policies.)
> 
> Jim


Sorry, my bad, that image was hosted on our top secret "admin forum" that the public can't see. I'll have to figure out another way to post it.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

4arch said:


> What about SailboatOwners?


Not deliberate exclusion on my part..to be honest I don't know that site at all.

I'll do another comparison later on today and see how they rate.

edit...according to Alexa, Sailboatowners.com, does not generate as much traffic as any of the other four mentioned. SBO does well in the US but thats about all.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

SimonV said:


> Come on Charles, you have been around long enough to know SN is seasonal. When sailNet is jumping we in Oz are out on the water and vice verce. I will kick of another tread in the new year when we head back out into the pacific. I to belong to some other sailing/cruising forums but keep coming back.....home.
> There was once a great bunch of guys here that just clicked and put s h i t on each other but in a good way and without malice, it may happen again and I hope to be part of it again.


Spot on assessment Simon. Sadly some of that non malicious ****e started to turn ugly. That little gang will probably never get back together as it was but hopefully the vindictiveness of some has waned. You know me, I just want to babble away when I can't be out on the water, thats how the forum should be.

OTOH...too much bonhomie can be suffocatingly cloying.

In July-August the Americans are all out sailing which is just as well cos in May they are going insane with cabin fever and driving the rest of us crazy.

ps - remember good people that while I'm one of the mods we don't get paid by SailNet and have nothing to do with the ownership of the site. My musings on this subject are from my own perspective. I'm not trying to find an argument to support the SailNet claim. That's admins isssue.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

People seem to click on more pages (perhaps posts) when on SBO?









People seem to stay and read longer on SBO?









While SBO's traffic looks lower that is only one domain of the SBO family of sailing forums. We also have Catalinaowners.com, Hunterowners.com, Odayowners.com, trailersailor.com the csbb forums and others which don't get counted. CF and SN to my knowledge have one domain for forum traffic, CF is still bigger due to it's word wide audience.

SBO US Traffic Rank = 18,114 (excluding other forums owned by SBO)
SN US Traffic Rank = 18,415
CF US Traffic Rank = 28,921


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Ah, but you're overlooking one minor detail...

SAILNET ROCKS!


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

tdw said:


> OTOH...too much bonhomie can be suffocatingly cloying.


Ah!... piss off fuzz ball...

I had to look all that up to know how to respond my dear old friend...:laugher


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

...


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## Thorin (Apr 8, 2010)

For what it's worth, although I have only been lurking here (for many months, actually), I want to say that I highly value this site. I am more of a "keep your mouth shut and learn from what others have to say" type of guy than anything alse, as I am somewhat of a novice. The pages do load somewhat slowly at times, but I manage. Here I have learned about bedding with butyl tape (that alone made it worth it), found out how to properly repair a soft spot, enhanced my skills w/ sail trim, got a lot of advice on how to gently introduce my Admiral and children to sailing; the list goes on and on. I'm not sure why I chose to chime in here, but I guess I saw it fitting to show some appreciation for the wealth of knowledge here. I'm just an inland lake sailor (so far) in NW Louisiana. I recently purchased a '77 Chrysler 22 (Halsey Herreshoff), and I enjoy it tremendously. She's a solidly built boat that sails well. My only other experience is as crew on a Catalina 22, and putzing around on a dinghy, and a Hobie cat. Anyway, I just wanted to show some appreciation for the site. I hope to participate more in the future. I have spent some time looking over Sailing Anarchy, and it seems a bit too caustic for my taste. I got the distinct impression that it is more of a "racing snob" board. I can handle a forum that is edgy, but some of the material over there seems to be downright nasty. I can remember seeing one thread where some guys were talking about J boats like they were total pieces of crap. At that point, I knew that it probably wasn't really for me. Anyway, thanks, and cheers!


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Thorin said:


> For what it's worth, although I have only been lurking here (for many months, actually), I want to say that I highly value this site. I am more of a "keep your mouth shut and learn from what others have to say" type of guy than anything alse, as I am somewhat of a novice. The pages do load somewhat slowly at times, but I manage. Here I have learned about bedding with butyl tape (that alone made it worth it), found out how to properly repair a soft spot, enhanced my skills w/ sail trim, got a lot of advice on how to gently introduce my Admiral and children to sailing; the list goes on and on. I'm not sure why I chose to chime in here, but I guess I saw it fitting to show some appreciation for the wealth of knowledge here. I'm just an inland lake sailor (so far) in NW Louisiana. I recently purchased a '77 Chrysler 22 (Halsey Herreshoff), and I enjoy it tremendously. She's a solidly built boat that sails well. My only other experience is as crew on a Catalina 22, and putzing around on a dinghy, and a Hobie cat. Anyway, I just wanted to show some appreciation for the site. I hope to participate more in the future. I have spent some time looking over Sailing Anarchy, and it seems a bit too caustic for my taste. I got the distinct impression that it is more of a "racing snob" board. I can handle a forum that is edgy, but some of the material over there seems to be downright nasty. I can remember seeing one thread where some guys were talking about J boats like they were total pieces of crap. At that point, I knew that it probably wasn't really for me. Anyway, thanks, and cheers!


Woo Hoo!!.....we added one!..

I now consider this thread a total sucess...Thanks for choosing it to come out of the closet with....we all hope to hear more from you....great first post !.....

Welcome aboard by the way!


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## AE28 (Jun 20, 2008)

tomandchris said:


> ...and the snow is coming.


Tom...
Way too early to bring that up!!!

Paul


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## chamonix (Jun 25, 2010)

Hi, this seemed like a good thread to make my first post as a sailnet member. there are probably lots of poeple like me who read this forum all the time but don't have a lot of sailing experiance, thus really have nothing to add. The reason we're reading it is to learn and this is the best forum to do it. I,ve scaned on the SA forum a few times, not as helpfull or as informative and frankly about as edgy as a soft pillow. I live in Southern Ontario so my kids played hockey for a while. Used to visit a website called Area54 which was a website about hockey in the Toronto area, one trip to that forum could affect your sanity and possible get you in trouble with the law. As a comparison Sailnet would be a big hardworking, helpfull lovable labrador retriever of a forum. SA would be a yappy nipping lap dog of a forum. Area54 was a slavering, rabid wolf of a forum. So stop doubting yourselfs, it just makes you look like the nerd at school trying to figure out how popular he is. Your doing great work.


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

chrisncate said:


> Honestly I think SA is the worst of all sailing forums. Every time I lurk there (never bothered to register), I feel like I need a shower.
> 
> My 2c.


Seems like unless you own a Farr 40 or some other type of racing machine, there's not much to talk about there.

No room at the inn for a 46 yo. woodie (even though she was a racing machine  )


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Actually, the guys in Cruising Anarchy are very cool. So it's all in where you hang.


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## chamonix (Jun 25, 2010)

Just got into sailing and am realy enjoying it, but if you got into sailing to be very cool.....well lets just say you need to get out more.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Heh-heh. It is a relative term isn't it.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

What ?....It wont enhance my coolness?....That's it!...... problem solved ...anyone want to buy a boat!


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

Well, working in the lazarette this summer certainly didn't enhance *my *coolness.:laugher


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## Thorin (Apr 8, 2010)

No problem for me. Where I sail, cool would be heavy on the beer (not that I'm judging), heavy on the crew, heavy on the throttle, heavy on the injuries, light on the scruples, and an almost guaranteed encounter with the municipal lake police.


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## labjt (Jan 7, 2009)

I for one love SailNet. Loads and loads of information on here. People are friendly and people just love sailing. None of this attitute you see on SA. SailNet is just a nice clean place to be!


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

lets just all have group hug and sing kum-by-yah... the love fest is givin' me a cavity.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

*too lovey--dovey*

I agree with Paul, it's getting way too lovey--dovey on this thread.









Anybody want to talk politics or guns?









No? Well at least we can all agree on the best anchor 

Ducking,
Jim


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Well someone of a somewhat fuzzy disposition did mention that too much bonhomie was a tadge cloying. 

Positively ukein fact. 


Hey Maine...so its Sailboatowners where you moderate ? I've never really looked at the site as I mentioned earlier, largely because I thought (perhaps unfairly) that it was extremely UScentric. I like the fact that other sites, particularly YBW and SA , but also Cruisers Forum and Sailnet seem to have a wider audience. 

There is also the BoatDesign forum. PCP from Portugal used to post their a lot and don't forget the sometimes wonderful smaller sites. In NZ there is crew.org, AS of course, SSCA, MetalBoatBuilders, all of which serve a very useful purpose.

The thing that disappoints me most about the forums in general is that we don't attract enough interest from Europe and Asia, yes even Australia and NewZealand. I guess I can understand why, but it is still disappointing.

oh yes and StillRaining.........


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

cardiacpaul said:


> lets just all have group hug and sing kum-by-yah... the love fest is givin' me a cavity.


Hey CP, you're still alive!!!!!!


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

tdw said:


> The thing that disappoints me most about the forums in general is StillRaining.........


Oh thanks!.. :laugher


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

smack, quit following me around like I'm going to drop sumpin'. 
I ain't buyin' squat, ok?


Of course I'm effin' alive, you don't think that 7 mi's, 6 angios, nine stents and a heart pump, OR a cuban on dope can kill me, do ya? pffft, I lived in houston for chrissakes, this is a piece o' cake.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Me follow _you_ around? Dude! I'm the cloud and you're the shadow! Or are you the seaweed and I'm the cloud?

Damn, this is complicated...


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> Me follow _you_ around? Dude! I'm the cloud and you're the shadow! Or are you the seaweed and I'm the cloud?
> 
> Damn, this is complicated...


ah me....I'm crying here......

As much as I'd like to laugh my way through yet another CP v Smack slugfest, and I would , I really would, cos you two break me up, you do, you really do, ......nonetheless I have a couple of buckets of cold water ready, should they be required.....


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

labjt said:


> I for one love SailNet. Loads and loads of information on here. People are friendly and people just love sailing. None of this attitute you see on SA. SailNet is just a nice clean place to be!


Thanks for that note.

That's all we're really trying to do here -- provide a useful forum where folks can ask questions, get answers, learn about sailing, help others, hang out and get acquainted with fellow sailors. All in a -- hopefully -- fairly friendly atmosphere.

There's plenty of banter and good natured teasing among friends (like good buddies Smack and CP -- they go way back ), but with so many members and so many different opinions, there's bound to be friction from time to time. What works best is if folks express their differences in a civil way, without resorting to personal attacks.

We also try to keep the site "Rated PG". It's probably a good thing we can't understand half of what tdw writes, or we might have given him the old heave ho long ago. 

I don't pay much attention to the traffic count. The site is what the members make of it. It waxes and wains, sometimes with the sailing seasons, sometimes with the interest and participation of the members.

The moderators try to keep things civil and the forum relatively free of spam --- but we're volunteers and we have real jobs, go on vacation, get sick or injured, have families, as well as other interests and hobbies, etc. Ultimately, it's up to the members to keep the site humming. Post away!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

JohnRPollard said:


> We also try to keep the site "Rated PG". It's probably a good thing we can't understand half of what tdw writes, or we might have given him the old heave ho long ago.


Oi...watchit oar there will be trubol.....

Reality is of course that my tomes are aimed at the edumacated classes and not the mongol hordes from the evil empire....


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

cormeum said:


> Seems like unless you own a Farr 40 or some other type of racing machine, there's not much to talk about there.
> 
> No room at the inn for a 46 yo. woodie (even though she was a racing machine  )


Once again, I have gritted my teeth and tried not to click the "reply" button and I have failed.

Gimme a break. I own a 41 year old, plastic pocket cruiser and I was quite well received on SA, specifically the Cruising Anarchy sub-forum. Designer Bob Perry is a frequent poster there, and I'm certain that he'd love to discuss your wooden boat, and so would several others.

The main SA forum is mainly racers riding the latest rocket yes, but Fixit Anarchy is just as helpful with butyl tape advice and blister repair as this place.

You can also actually speak your opinion there without having it deleted 30 seconds later. The price you pay for that freedom, is that you'd better have a thick skin because people are equally eager to share their opinion of you, with you.

I'm sorry to crash the wonderful image everyone has of this place, but the people on SA/CA taught me how to sail. "Virtually" as well as live-and-in-person. Although caustic, the people there were/are far more encouraging. They talk TO me, not AT me, or DOWN to me.

You know what I got when I came here? "You'll kill yourself and whoever comes to rescue you." "You're a hazard to navigation." Blah, blah, blah. Sailnet is a motherlode of information, but only if you're willing to sift through all of the negative vibes and nanny-lectures to get to it.

By now you're asking what I'm still doing here if this place is so awful, so here's the answer:

I lurk in an attempt to glean useful nuggets of information while attempting to avoid useless confrontations with the Sailnet Safety Patrol. I also enjoy Smackdaddy's antics as he (and Womby) are pretty much the only source of protons (positive charge) on this forum.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

I love you too Bubbelhead...


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## chamonix (Jun 25, 2010)

I'm on here to get information, you can talk up, down, at, or sideways to me as long as I get the information I need. Opinions are great as long as its about the problem at hand, anything else.......well its great you have them but I don't realy care what they are. As for " vibe" and "protons", I'll leave them for the toothfairy to sort out.


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

BubbleheadMd said:


> You know what I got when I came here? "You'll kill yourself and whoever comes to rescue you." "You're a hazard to navigation." Blah, blah, blah.


Two things:

1. If someone said these things to me I would look really, really hard at what I was talking about doing, no matter who the source was.

2. I searched all your posts and threads you started for the keywords "rescue" or "hazard" and the only hit I got was your post in this thread. Where did you get these responses? A link would be helpful.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Lyd, I'm going to guess that Bubble doesn't want to wade through that again. I know what he's talking about - and he's generally right as far as I'm concerned.

I followed his threads here and at SA at that time. He was taken in by the salts (and I mean salts) over at SA as a newb sailor and they've been great in helping him out.

As for here, he was dressed down pretty heartily by some people for wanting to start learning to sail in the winter.

It's all about the idea and priority of safety. And, obviously, it's hard to argue with someone who is arguing hard for safety. But in general, the people here focused on critiquing the "dangerous" idea itself of going out in winter in the first place. The people there focused on telling him everything he needed to do to prepare for it and be safe instead of telling him to wait for summer. Just a different mentality. Racing versus cruising? Something else? I don't know.

Regardless of the forum, I think it comes down to a collective perspective on newbs. If the starting point is that newbs are idiots - you get immediate dress downs. If the starting point is that newbs are not idiots - you get helpful advice on how to get through whatever it is you are trying to get through.

I love SN...and I always have. But what's funny is that people always talk about how harsh and caustic SA is where the traditional greeting to new posters is "F*** Off Newb". The irony is that SN can have its own form of "F*** Off Newb" - it's just much more indirect.

Either way...you just have to harden up and sail. As safely as you can. And be willing to throw some punches when necessary.


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

smackdaddy said:


> Lyd, I'm going to guess that Bubble doesn't want to wade through that again. I know what he's talking about - and he's generally right as far as I'm concerned.


I was just curious to see the context. No trouble.



> As for here, he was dressed down pretty heartily by some people for wanting to start learning to sail in the winter.
> 
> It's all about the idea and priority of safety. And, obviously, it's hard to argue with someone who is arguing hard for safety. But in general, the people here focused on critiquing the "dangerous" idea itself of going out in winter in the first place. The people there focused on telling him everything he needed to do to prepare for it and be safe instead of telling him to wait for summer. Just a different mentality. Racing versus cruising? Something else? I don't know.
> 
> ...


I'm in Wisconsin. My only reaction to the idea of sailing in the winter is total incomprehension. 

I get what you're saying. I just try to err on the side of safety. Actually, come to think of it, no I don't. I have done a lot of somewhat risky things, on a bike; on a boat; etc., but what I tend to do is err on the side of being really anal about making sure I fully understand the nature and extent of the risk. Then I can make more informed decisions.

So I'm always really happy when people point out potential dangers and problems, and my own first reaction to any idea tends to be to think, "what could go wrong with that and what am I going to do when it does?"

Wow, I've dragged this so far off topic. Sorry guys.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

smackdaddy said:


> <snip>
> 
> Just a different mentality. Racing versus cruising? Something else? I don't know.
> <snip>


Not "racing vs. cruising", it's "actually sailing vs. just talking about sailing", with an emphasis on *taking proper precautions *when sailing in less than optimal conditions, instead of perpetually playing it safe by staying tied to the dock. I'm not even talking about Smack's BFS thread.

Lyd, A lot of the negative comments I received came in the form of PM's and you can guess what I've done with them. If you respect Smack's opinion at all, then it's safe for you to believe his previous statement about me.

There are some long-standing, experienced members here who believe that If you don't have a stack of ASA certifications framed on your wall, that you are a dangerous sailor. There are people here who believe that if you race, you are a poor seaman, because you take risks, and strain your equipment. There are people here who will totally void out 20 years of US Navy blue and brown water experience simply because you didn't employ wind power.

Still, as I said before, these people have experience and information that is valuable to me so I _try_ very hard to be quiet and just read so that I can get the info without the lecture.

You know what though? I don't think the negativity is why Sailnet attendance is dropping. Younger, faster people will go to SA and slower, more cautious, and gentle people will come here. I don't really know what the cause is. I can only speak for myself.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

lydanynom said:


> ...but what I tend to do is err on the side of being really anal about making sure I fully understand the nature and extent of the risk. Then I can make more informed decisions.


This completely nails it in my book. +1.

What's important to me is to get people excited about one of the coolest things you can possibly do: sailing. That's what counts most.

If you're not sailing...somehow, some way, somewhere, or at least obsessing about it...you're an idiot!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

BubbleheadMd said:


> You know what though? I don't think the negativity is why Sailnet attendance is dropping. Younger, faster people will go to SA and slower, more cautious, and gentle people will come here. I don't really know what the cause is. I can only speak for myself.


Actually SN attendance/reach is on the rise, and has been for about a year and a half. And the negativity has chilled a lot. So that's all good.

I like SN because it's a good middle ground between SA and CF. The moderating here is great, you can be far more crusty and fun than you can at CF, but I can also let my kids look over my shoulder while I'm posting/reading here unlike at SA.

So, it's all a balance.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

There are a few of us here that will sail in "harsh" to harsher conditions, and do not have issues with the "this is what I have to do" to make it work. Like all sports, there are fair weather doers, and those that just plain "DO IT" with sailing and skiing, just do it, be prepared, and things will be just fine.

marty


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Thanks for the compliment Bubblehead. Goodonya.

Really I agree with much of what he says. Sometimes the well meaning dogooders get a bit tedious. Me, I know I break a few rules pretty much every time I go out sailing yet I am in no way a sailing radical, just a bit old fashioned when it comes to always wearing a PFD or clipping on when I go forward unless I'm offshore and its a bit lumpy. 

As I said before, the people in Cruising Anarchy are a great bunch. I remember when we all did the virtual VOR a year or so back. I doubt I've ever had as much fun on line. You remember that don't you Still ? LOL. Still had to take a few days off so he left me in charge of his boat which I promptly ran aground. Then to make up for my failure I decided to do a 360 penalty but mistakenly did a 540 and ended up sailing backwards for twelve hours with everyone trying to message me to turn around while I took a nap . Yeah, the spirit of (dare I use the word ?) cameraderie that prevailed was fantastic. The best. What's more the SA greeting of FON and of course HTFU are as Smack suggests easier to take than some of the snide comments newbies get here. 

OTOH, CA does not generate a lot of traffic, I'm not usually the least bit interested in racing and so SailNet is home. Always lots of talk about the crew who decamped after the Tartan fiasco but look at the folk we have hear now. Newcomers who have settled in , some of the old crew who have returned and regulars who never left. No forum can lose a whole bunch of regulars and not suffer to some extent. I believe we did suffer and maybe we still do but my belief is that this place is better today than it was a year back and I hope in a years time it will better yet. Time and all our contributions will tell.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Well, with SA taking a momentary tumble in the midst of what looks to be a nasty F12 on the horizon...I think SN might actually hold the title.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

Sailing in winter in Wisconsin in a bikini probably would be pretty bad, but I'd love to see the crash. Sailing in winter in the southern ocean proved to be a bad decision for the family of a certain 16 year old. Sailing in winter in my part of the world has been an exquisite pleasure... and I love my USCG-approved "float coat". 

And then there was this boat we were looking at that had a wobbly pulpit, miniature "toy" bow roller, and a 22-lb. Danforth clone with six feet of chain as the only anchor for a 11,600-lb. boat. What were they thinking? 

Oh was someone talking about numbers and ratings? Yeah, what's the Portsmouth rating for Sailnet versus the other sites?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

220, 221...whatever it takes.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

tdw said:


> Thanks for the compliment Bubblehead. Goodonya.
> 
> Really I agree with much of what he says. Sometimes the well meaning dogooders get a bit tedious. Me, I know I break a few rules pretty much every time I go out sailing yet I am in no way a sailing radical, just a bit old fashioned when it comes to always wearing a PFD or clipping on when I go forward unless I'm offshore and its a bit lumpy.
> 
> ...


Hugh? What?...you talking to me?
Im still recovering from not making bubbleheads list...

But yes I remember very well, and like wise it is probably the highlight of my online career to date fun wise...I also ditto the feeling of camaraderie it endeared....can be a fun bunch that is for sure if your lucky enough to get on the inside...and definitely some of the best sailors I personally know.

I purposely did not sling forum names around for a reason in my opening post, in that everyone has there own tolerance for things...mine happens to be quite low for foul language, so that is really the only reason I never really came back after my temporary disconnect of Internet service here a year ago due to finical tightening of the belt around here...One other reason that will remain privet and still persists.

Anyway the opening posts question was for what it was, not to get into mud slinging....Good people have been found on every forum I have belonged to...and the irritants as well.. ...but my money says we would probably get along in person with those over a beer in the cockpit as well....................maybe someone might go overboard after 6 or 8 though..hard to say...


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## chall03 (Oct 14, 2002)

Sailnet was the first sailing forum.....in fact any kind of forum I ever joined and posted on.

Since joining here I have joined a smattering of others forums, often signing up elsewhere during periods of bewilderment/discontentment/boredom with what was going on here. I have at least once or twice vowed to disappear from SN forever, yet after a period of reading/posting somewhere else I then tend for better or worse to migrate back here......

While being far from perfect, and in fact more often than not still a temple of mindless self flagellating dribble, SN has certainly not turned into the smouldering ruin some may like to believe it is simply because they are no longer present here.

I would within the constraints of good seamanship, and common sense like to see the pursuit of life's adventures given better support and recognition here.

I would also love to see the more knowledgeable, skilled, experienced folk here amongst us become more far more vocal.....and in return treated with the respect that they among a group of sailors deserve.

I would love us to become again a _real_ community.


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

chall03 said:


> I would love us to become again a _real_ community.


I haven't felt that for a very long time. 
Looking back, I'm not sure if it was real then or not. But it did seem like I was among friends. 
Not so much nowadays.
Still, like you, this was my very first forum and also like you I have sworn it off for periods of time. But I always end up coming back. 
I'm really not sure why. Just weak I guess.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

chall03 said:


> Sailnet was the first sailing forum.....in fact any kind of forum I ever joined and posted on.
> 
> Since joining here I have joined a smattering of others forums, often signing up elsewhere during periods of bewilderment/discontentment/boredom with what was going on here. I have at least once or twice vowed to disappear from SN forever, yet after a period of reading/posting somewhere else I then tend for better or worse to migrate back here......
> 
> ...


Wow. Very well stated. To me, it's all about freedom of ideas and opinions. This requires a certain level of trust that most people are pretty smart - whether or not they have experience in any particular area.

If one group or another tries to clamp down on ideas and opinions, you end up with a clique that runs the forum. That may be great in terms of "friends having fun", but it kind of sucks for a forum.

On the other hand, if everyone is encouraged to let fly their opinions or ideas on a matter, with the understanding that they'll get countering ideas and opinions that they may or may not like....AND if they are cool with that and don't start crying and throwing tantrums - it becomes a fun place to hang out.

As you say Chall, as long as the LOVE of sailing, not the fear of it, is what's leading the charge...and as long as there is minimal condescension or pious holier-than-thou crap - it becomes a fun place to hang out.

I've think SN has a really good balance of bawdiness and seriousness. Raise your glasses and toast the Smoking Ruin!


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

knothead said:


> I haven't felt that for a very long time.
> Looking back, I'm not sure if it was real then or not. But it did seem like I was among friends.
> 
> Not so much nowadays.


Yeah, that's kinda gone 

Like you and some others: I still check in. But... eh... my heart's not in it like it used to be.

Jim


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Semi, so you're slumming now at SA? Heh-heh. That's a nice friendly atmosphere!

The bottom line is that SN has shown significant growth over the last year and a half. That's got to tell you something.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

The other issue with the small group friendliness, is it goes away to a degree as forums get bigger. OR sometimes when you come in as a newbie, the current crop of newbs seem to congregate for a bit and help ea other persay. Then as that wears down, one moves on or some other equal. 

This is still a good place to be. Look at AS, was fun for a month or two, then turned into a nazi racist something or other, the powers at be got rid of that group, and now it is worth checking in a bit. SA is the same way, altho I will check there more when a larger race or two is in the puget sound area, to see who is going, and what ever other gossip one can find out about. 

All have forums good and bad points, fun days, and bad days. seems to depend upon if there is a new moon out or not!

marty


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

knothead said:


> I haven't felt that for a very long time.
> Looking back, I'm not sure if it was real then or not. But it did seem like I was among friends.
> Not so much nowadays.


Interesting to hear so many who've been around here for a while share similar sentiments. I've been on Sailnet around about a year and a half so I guess I'm still in the "honeymoon stage" and still feel this place is pretty friendly and feel a sense of camaraderie with a lot of people here. Attending the Chesapeake Rendezvous was a big help in feeling more connected though. Being able to put names to faces and see people in person is always a good thing.

All that said, I used to frequent a forum related to my professional field and initially felt very plugged in to the community on that site. But eventually that feeling faded as some of the original core of members dropped off or stopped posting as much. A lot of the original ones left behind became more and more belligerent both toward each other and newbies. I kind of burned out on that forum and pulled away but as I check back in occasionally, things seem to be rebuilding and getting better again. I think these things are cyclical and can have their ups and downs as does everything else in life.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

blt2ski said:


> Look at AS, was fun for a month or two, then turned into a nazi racist something or other, the powers at be got rid of that group, and now it is worth checking in a bit.


Bad form--commenting on another forum like that. Suggest you delete that part I just quoted and then I'll do the same. Otherwise you're going to make me come to the defence of those whom I suspect you're accusing of being "racists" and "Nazis," and, while that doesn't really belong here, neither can I just let it go.

Jim


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

There are certain things I have to personally stay out of. But comments regarding other forums is not exactly bad form. Plenty of reciprocity on that score if you look back a bit. Everyone talks about everyone.

At the end of the day, you just need a good dose of "who gives a damn"? Sailing is more fun anyway.

Now that that's all cleaned up, weren't we all talking about how awesome Sailnet is?


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Ya!.....Jim and I do make it sort of awesome around her don't we..:laugher :laugher


OK group hug!...who's your buddies who's your pals...


Hey... can I barrow 5 bucks from everybody?..


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Jim,

You can go to the defense of the two off the top of my head all you want. BUT< from a pm from one of the main folks, he started getting PMs from folks saying the same as I did above. They cleaned the place up, now it is a bit more fun to go read etc. 

Marty


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

blt2ski said:


> Jim,
> 
> You can go to the defense of the two off the top of my head all you want. BUT< from a pm from one of the main folks, he started getting PMs from folks saying the same as I did above. They cleaned the place up, now it is a bit more fun to go read etc.
> 
> Marty


First of all: It wasn't "one of the main folks," it was *the* "main folk." Secondly: I've seen this before. The two people to whom you refer are simply died-in-the-wool right-wing "conservatives." I don't agree with much of the so-called "conservative" political philosophies, but that doesn't make them "racists" or "Nazis," and to accuse them of that is not only uncivil, it's libelous. It's also typical of typical left-"liberals" whenever they encounter strong-willed, strongly-opinionated "conservatives." It's almost as predictable as the sun rising. As for the results of the "main folk's" actions: You can say it's a bit more fun to go read, but, like SN: I find it a helluva lot less interesting. You see: The folks that left were two of the more knowledgeable sailors on that site. They left (and, yes, they left of their own accord) for the same reason that the guy who owns AS, and several other people that are now _only_ on AS, as well as the two who are no longer there, left SN.

You see: That's the "problem" with talented people: They tend to have strong views.

I remember when I first joined SN. One of those "racists" and "Nazis" taught me a _lot_ about navigating by compass in very short order. Ah, those were the days .

All of the above is why I no longer participate much on either site. Like knothead said: Neither one much feels like "home" anymore.

Jim


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

Stillraining said:


> Ya!.....Jim and I do make it sort of awesome around her don't we..:laugher :laugher


Er... which "Jim?"

Jim (one of 'em, anyway)


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Conservative? Liberal? Nazi? Untalented? Dude - take it to PRWG.

This is about sailing!


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

But don't most of us get untalented at some level of challenging sailing conditions? At least that's what my wife thinks!


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

rgscpat said:


> But don't most of us get untalented at some level of challenging sailing conditions? At least that's what my wife thinks!


LOL! Yes . And some of us more than others 

But in any field of endeavor, be it professional or hobbiest, there are those that by aptitude, inclination, dint of hard work and, often, long experience, really, really know their stuff. These are people whose counsel you ignore at your own peril, because it's exceedingly rare for them to get it wrong. (And when they do appear to have got it wrong, more often than not it's actually you just having gotten lucky.)

That's the kind of guys (in this case) about which I'm talking. Experienced, _very_ knowledgeable sailors. They just happen to also be very opinionated conservatives (I think, in their cases, I can leave the quotes off, because I believe they really _are_ conservatives in the old-school sense) who are not shy about making their opinions known in no uncertain terms. People with wishy-washy ideals bouncing around in their skulls, derived primarily from wishful thinking and feel-good pronouncements, near as I've ever been able to tell, often find what such people have to say frightening. These Pollyannas can't honestly argue, because they have no facts or reality with which to argue, so they resort to demonizing their opponents.

Jim


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

What a strange turn this thread has taken since I last glanced at it.

Personally, I've found many extremely experienced and knowledgeable sailors both here and elsewhere who don't get confused by the notion of sharing seamanship and rigging tips without uncontrollably blatting out political commentary at the same time. 

The sort of character you are describing doesn't sound like he'd be much fun to hang out with.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

lydanynom said:


> What a strange turn this thread has taken since I last glanced at it.


Such is the nature of web forums .



lydanynom said:


> Personally, I've found many extremely experienced and knowledgeable sailors both here and elsewhere who don't get confused by the notion of sharing seamanship and rigging tips without uncontrollably blatting out political commentary at the same time.


You misunderstand. The political commentary was reserved for those sections of the site(s) specifically reserved for political and other off-topic discussion. In the case of the other forums of which we speak: Individuals have to explicitly and specifically request access to these "no holds barred" (allegedly) sections, after agreeing to the disclaimer that tells them "enter at your own risk and no bitching once you do."

People bitched, anyway. Imagine that. (I think you can probably guess, given some of my earlier comments, what "kind" of people did the bitching--after agreeing not to do so.)



lydanynom said:


> The sort of character you are describing doesn't sound like he'd be much fun to hang out with.


Au contraire! If you don't agree with their political positions (I often don't), and can get by those (I can), they're eminently fun and interesting people. The best kind of people: People from whom you can Learn Things _and_ be entertained at the same time 

To bad you'll likely not get the opportunity.

Now, I have a tree-climbing competition to attend. I expect y'all to behave yourselves in my absence.



Jim


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

SEMIJim said:


> You misunderstand. The political commentary was reserved for those sections of the site(s) specifically reserved for political and other off-topic discussion. In the case of the other forums of which we speak: Individuals have to explicitly and specifically request access to these "no holds barred" (allegedly) sections, after agreeing to the disclaimer that tells them "enter at your own risk and no bitching once you do."


Oh, yeah, I did misunderstand.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Wow. Buzzkill.

Jim, seriously, if you want to wax poetic about politics, days and dudes gone by, start a thread and go for it (or buy a room - heh). This thread is about Sailnet being exceedingly unlame...in the present. So focus! In the mean time I have to give lydan a +1.

Be careful in those trees dude - sounds sketchy. 

We've got tickets to go watch some monkeys fling poo at two o'clock. So at least there's that.

PS - In all seriousness, why don't you go teach someone about navigation...just like that other dude taught you. That would be a good thing right? Passing it on? Or go to FC and go supernova. That's fun too,


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

There is nothing wrong with setting the record straight and correcting those that rewrite history whenever the opportunity presents itself.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Where is the re-written history? Did I miss something here?


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

smackdaddy said:


> Where is the re-written history? Did I miss something here?


_
"This is still a good place to be. Look at AS, was fun for a month or two, *then turned into a nazi racist something or other, the powers at be got rid of that group*, and now it is worth checking in a bit. SA is the same way, altho I will check there more when a larger race or two is in the puget sound area, to see who is going, and what ever other gossip one can find out about." _


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Reply moved HERE:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/off-topic/66418-s-where-you-2.html#post628902


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

lydanynom said:


> Oh, yeah, I did misunderstand.


Thanks for the chuckle :laugher

Jim


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

I just happened to stop by and found this thread. 

Thanks for reaffirming my decision to stop visiting here. uke


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Hey xort - how's it hanging?


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

xort said:


> I just happened to stop by and found this thread.
> 
> Thanks for reaffirming my decision to stop visiting here. uke


Nice drive-by, Ed.

Maybe poke around a bit and avoid judging so hastily?

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/off-topic/66418-s-where-you-4.html


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I'm having a problem or two here in that it seems to me that most of you are surmising that 'blt2ski' was referring to Sway and Cam. I don't think he was.



> _*then turned into a nazi racist something or other, the powers at be got rid of that group*, _


To my knowledge Sway and Cam departed AS for their own reasons. I don't believe that either of them was banned from AS. OTOH a bunch of people were ejected for what were some very unsavoury comments that would have been appropriate for a "nazi racist something or other" group. Some of those people had already been banned here, others would have been banned here had they posted such bile.

If my interpretation of Marty's words is correct then I don't think the post warrants editing or retraction.

As for AS , they took steps to put their house in order, got rid of a bunch of people who were IMHO a waste of space and good on them for doing so.

Mind you , they also banned a fellow who I consider a friend, a bloke who is a stalwart of SailNet, that did not impress me one little bit. While we have had to send this unnamed member on holidays a couple of times he keeps reappearing and remains a staunch supporter. I'll leave you to figure out who am I talking about but its definitely not StillRaining....

So enough about AS OK ? We don't slag other forums here on SN....well maybe dear old StuffUp just a tadge.....


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Bugger ...all heck broke out again.

One of my most popular threads of all time me thinks....who would have thunk.

Galley Sole got half the visits and it was 1000 times the work......Pickles I sez.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Which kind of pickles? Sweet? dill? Kosher dill? brand? home made?


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

cormeum said:


> Seems like unless you own a Farr 40 or some other type of racing machine, there's not much to talk about there.
> 
> No room at the inn for a 46 yo. woodie (even though she was a racing machine  )


Cruising anarchy.

I do agree about the testosterone poisoning, and looking for a fight (and they may have found one) in a bar, attitude there.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Home brew of course....the only really Kosher kind..

The wife's been slippin and hasn't put up any in about 3 or 4 years now...nuts!..


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Stillraining said:


> Bugger ...all heck broke out again.
> 
> One of my most popular threads of all time me thinks....who would have thunk.
> 
> Galley Sole got half the visits and it was 1000 times the work......Pickles I sez.


.....but the rewards were greater eh Still ? Its quality, not quantity that really matters.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Still, 

Let me know when she gets some more home brew up and cooking per say, I'll be up sooner than later! 

Marty


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

tdw said:


> I'm having a problem or two here in that it seems to me that most of you are surmising that 'blt2ski' was referring to Sway and Cam. I don't think he was.


Up until now, nobody's named names. Now that you have: Yeah, that's the impression.



tdw said:


> To my knowledge Sway and Cam departed AS for their own reasons.


That is correct.



tdw said:


> I don't believe that either of them was banned from AS.


No, neither was ejected or banned. *But*, to somebody with an axe to grind and who wasn't paying very close attention, it might be easy to think things happened that way. Or perhaps somebody with an axe to grind might feel they can get away with rewriting history to suit how they'd have liked things to have happened.



tdw said:


> If my interpretation of Marty's words is correct then I don't think the post warrants editing or retraction.


If he _wasn't_ speaking of Cam and Sway, perhaps he'll be so kind as to tell us so (which I notice he hasn't done, yet), and I'll gladly retract my comments.



tdw said:


> So enough about AS OK ? We don't slag other forums here on SN....


That was my recommendation at the start.

Jim


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

For the record, I was not refering to sway or cam directly. There were others, Cam certainly leans way right on thinking, I only needed one or two posts from sway to stay away from his dribble. BUT, as I said, the other forums owner quoted to me the same general quote I used, and as such, things did have to be cleaned up over there, as they "DID" lose a number, not sure how few, how many etc, posters due to getting hit with a political ideology they many did not agree with. ANY forum, if it tries to be what it should be, ie sailing as this one, AS, SA etc try to be, if they let too many political posts go on for too long of a period of time, there will be issues. Now one can have an off topic if you will, talk about political if you will, then one needs not go there. BUT, when one allows said topics to get spewed elsewhere, then issues will occur. 

Marty


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Did somebody say pickles?


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

blt2ski said:


> For the record, I was not refering to sway or cam directly. There were others, Cam certainly leans way right on thinking, I only needed one or two posts from sway to stay away from his dribble. BUT, as I said, the other forums owner quoted to me the same general quote I used, and as such, things did have to be cleaned up over there, as they "DID" lose a number, not sure how few, how many etc, posters due to getting hit with a political ideology they many did not agree with. ANY forum, if it tries to be what it should be, ie sailing as this one, AS, SA etc try to be, if they let too many political posts go on for too long of a period of time, there will be issues. Now one can have an off topic if you will, talk about political if you will, then one needs not go there. BUT, when one allows said topics to get spewed elsewhere, then issues will occur.
> 
> Marty


They did have an off topic forum. Just like this site. Except that, as Jim pointed out you had to actually "apply" for admittance to even see it and then promise not to ***** about it. 
Some people just can't help bitching.


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## bjung (Apr 8, 2009)

I don't know what happened over at AS, but I have profitted quite heavily here at SN from the sailing knowledge of Cam, who keeps being drug up here as a misfit. OT/P/R/G is of course going to get heated, but that should not carry over into sailing related threads. People who easily get offended should steer clear of this area, just like the ones, that cannot present their opinion in a civil manner. Once we leave that room, we are all into the same thing, and even that can get heated...
Let's not loose any more members over OT, it's counterproductive...

Some nice guidelines for OT participation by danjarch from another thread:

1. Figure out if your talking to a normal person or a troll. 

You might think that's easy but it can be harder then it looks. You've got to catch the little things like constant hair splitting. If someone is trying to discredit everything his opponent says by focusing on the exceptions rather then the averages then they're likely to turn into a troll.

2. Know when you hold a radical opinion. 

It doesn't mean your wrong but isn't going to play out well in the thread. There are a number of areas where I don't agree with either of the major party lines, I tend to avoid commenting in threads where those things come up. You have to be your own judge on this one. Your not going to be easily able to get your point across in the few paragraphs that people are going to read. So if you have a nuanced view that is reasonably far from the main stream then your better off viewing the thread rather then commenting in it.

3. Are you willing to change your opinion. 

This is a tricky one. There are some issues that are tied up in your over all beliefs that are hard to change one by one. It's worth spending some time pondering how your beliefs are interrelated before thinking someone else is being unreasonable. I've seen people of every political side fail to see the difference between their facts and beliefs. It's a little unreasonable to expect other to change their mind when you wouldn't consider changing yours either. And this is a point by point issue, not an over all thing. A good example would be that you may or may not feel the federal government should be as involved in medical as it's getting but aren't likely to question whether that extends to the CDC or FDA. Which would mean that you do believe the government has a right to control medicine on some level. If you don't take that into account then you could find yourself really at odds with someone who really doesn't believe the government should be involved with medicine. Or conversely find yourself at odds with someone believes that the government is already involved so why oppose further intervention. Our you willing to go to the heart of your belief on that one. If not why then expect someone else too.

4. It's rare to change your mind overnight, even rarer to admit it to the guy you were arguing with the night before.

Why would you expect to change someone opinion with a couple of paragraphs on an online forum. You either have to really believe your a god amongst men if you think your such a good writer to compel people to change their beliefs so quickly. Either that or you think the people your talking to are complete idiots. This sets you up in a catch 22, if you think the people your debating are such fools then why bother debating them. Don't get me wrong, there are some who come around that I think are fools, idiots, or trolls, but I don't make it a habit to respond to them. Conversely, there are plenty around here that I think quite highly of the have different opinions then me. I wouldn't expect them to change there minds overnight any more then I would change my mind. I've giving a lot of thought before coming to my opinions. Some times I've missed a faucet or two that when fully considered has changed my mind. But it's usually after a time of reflection that I really change my opinion. It goes back to what I said before about no one belief being truly independent of all others. So either you think everybody your debating is an idiot which begs the question of your own intelligence for debating them, or you believe your a god amongst men, at which case you had better avoid the politics section since we're a bit synical down this neck of the woods.

5. It's pretty easy to insult people in these topics. 

I just insulted you. I didn't set out to insult you but it's hard to really make your point sometimes with out insulting people. So if you have a thin skin then you should avoid the politics section. It's more a matter of understanding that I'm not insulting you but the idea your pushing. If you can't separate yourself from your ideas then your going to a lot of trouble here. You will be offended at some point either way, which leads to-

6. Take a break now and then

If your getting riled up just thinking about your response to another poster, then you need to take a break. Do you know the difference between a believer and a fanatic? A believer can't change his mind, a fanatic won't change the subject. No matter how well sailnet does separating politics from everything else, you have to be willing to step back yourself. Complaining that just because there is a political section on sailnet means you can't be blamed for being a troll yourself would be like claiming that MSNBC or FOX has to buy you a new TV when you got mad and broke yours.

7. Why are you even commenting in the political section.

For me it's simple. I'm a political junkie and if nothing else posting here allows my to fully examine my beliefs. So why are you posting? I don't have any belief that I'm going to change every ones opinion. I have changed an opinion here or there but even then I would take complete credit for it. I've seen plenty of changes in opinion in the years I've been posting. I'm sure if you went back to some of my first posts then you would find plenty of areas where I've either move to the left or right of what I once posted, but I would be hard pressed to attribute this to one individual. But the reasons I keep coming back are plenty easy for me to understand. They even include the entertainment value I get debating you guys. If you can't come up with a reason to be here other then to change people's opinion then you need to find another outlet. Maybe go campaign for your guy of choice or something. An online forum really isn't the best place to convert people.

just my less than $.02.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

So, in summation jung...I think you're trying to say:



> HTHU and don't be such a freakin' Nancy. We're sailors for crying out loud!


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

blt2ski said:


> Still,
> 
> Let me know when she gets some more home brew up and cooking per say, I'll be up sooner than later!
> 
> Marty


Will do Marty....She packs a mean Pickel.

Wait-a-daw-gone-minuite.....that didnt come out right...

Would like to have you over for one.....naw, that didnt come out right either...

Well hold your pickel for ya......................nope not it either

Ah ...nuts!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> So, in summation jung...I think you're trying to say:Quote:
> HTHU and don't be such a freakin' Nancy. We're sailors for crying out loud!


lol...

Jung...I don't think anyone is calling Cam a misfit....I most certainly was not.....yeak OK so I called them both loopy right wing nutbags, but do I hear either of them complaining ? Course not. Must be OK then. 

Both Cam and Sway know me well enough that I am sure were they reading this over my shoulder...ooooooohhhh....spooky........then I am sure they would be having a quiet chuckle.

I think I know/knew them both well enough to drop the odd joke at their expense. They've done it me often enough over the years.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

knotty,

I never went in that area! It was outside that area. There was about 4-6 as I recall, one in particular that has not been mentioned by name. There were a number of them. I am not going to say they did not have sailing expertise, as they ALL did. The point is, if one lets politics, religion or equal outside of a off topic, the forum will get screwed up, and it did over there for awhile, hence why some left, some were asked, and others out right banned! Let that happen here, and it will turn many off from posting here too. 

SO lets get back to pickles! shall we? I here stilly's wife makes a mean one or some such thing.


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