# Teak & Holly Cabin Sole



## willysail (Oct 19, 2010)

Hi There,
I have a teak & holly sole in my C&C 30. I bought this boat several years ago, and I finally have decided to address the cabin sole. The sole looks as if it was varnished before it was cleaned. There are dark spots on the teak and I was to clean them to there original teak color. After removing one of the inspection holes I noticed that it is only a piece of 1/4" veneer onto a piece of 5/8's marine plywood.

*Can this be sanded to remove the varnish?
Can I use something to clean the teak and holly and recover it with something?
*


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## primerate84 (Jun 14, 2006)

Try using a heat gun and scraper. I have used this method to remove old Cetol so I am not sure if it will work the same on varnish. Be sure to not keep the heat on one spot too long or you will scorch the wood. (Be sure to use a heat gun, not a hair dryer. Hair dryers do not get hot enough to be effective.) After you do it for a few minutes, you will get the hang of it and it really is a quicker and easier way to remove the finish without removing any of the wood, which you will do with sanding. Good luck.


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## willysail (Oct 19, 2010)

Thanks Primerates84,
I'll give that a try, 
I found one in the garage the other day when I was looking for something else.

*What would you use to clean the teak & holly after?*


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

There are many good teak cleaners, most have oxalic acid in them.

If the veneer is 1/4" consider yourself lucky. Most factory cabin soles have about 1/16" veneer and sanding is not a good idea with it so thin.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

If the heat gun doesn't work, you may have to sand off the old finish. In this respect, it's not any different than refinishing a hardwood floor in a house. In order to speed your work and reduce the chances of gouging the wood, you need to take a counter-intuitive approach. When sanding, use a rough grit paper on 5" random orbit sander, progressing through to 220 paper. I would use 60, 80, 120, 180, then 220 grit. This sounds like a lot of sanding but it's really a lot LESS than trying to sand with 120 and then 220. And the finish will be much better because you won't be trying to work an area to excess. Change paper often - about every 3' of floor. Make sure that you're really working with 1/4" veneer. If so, then it's a joy. If not, then you will sand through to the substrate. It's an odd size for veneer, 1/8" is much more common for custom veneers. If so, it's still workable.

I would try to stay away from the cleaners unless there was no other alternative. If you sand as I indicate above, you will not need a cleaner.

I use Minwax Spar Urethane with exceptional results.

A partial view of our floor finished as I indicate:

VICTORIA (and her mistress)


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## Boatsmith (May 3, 2009)

It wil most likely be 1 layer of 1/4" plywood with a teak and holly veneer that is only 1/28" thick. Sand very carefully by hand. These are quite easy to sand through. A heat gun can get a lot of the finish off. A chenical stripper can be of use as well.


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## willysail (Oct 19, 2010)

Tomorrow when I get to the boat I will check very carefully on the thickness of the Teak & Holly veneer and then we can figure out what to do. I want to thank everyone for there help with this project.


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## Tweegs (Jun 25, 2010)

Be careful with the heat gun, it may cause the veneer to delaminate from the plywood. Test in a small out of the way area first.

Also, a power sander will blow through a layer of veneer in the blink of an eye. 

Personally, I wouldn’t go any courser than 180 grit.
I, too, am refinishing most of the interior of the boat. The head door is solid teak, the rest of the doors and drawers are veneered. On the veneer, I’m using 180 grit to knock the old finish off, followed by 220, then several coats of finish (high gloss spar urethane).

My sole panels are delaminated in several spots and flat out need replacing, but I’m going to take a different approach rather than using a veneer. Still, the finish should be rated for use on floors, don’t use a spar or standard polyurethane, the finish is too soft to hold up and will scratch like the dickens with foot traffic.


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## willysail (Oct 19, 2010)

Tweegs,
What would you use on the cabin sole after sanding? If things don't work out with the veneer, I might look at the synthetic teak & Holly


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## fryewe (Dec 4, 2004)

Willy,
I am restoring a Norsea that sank at the pier, and the mess on the cabin sole made me think it was a total loss, with black oil and dirt and debris all over it, standing for weeks. The cabin sole also had some varnish, epoxy, and caulk spots.

First thing I did was wash it down with fresh water. Then I scrubbed it with a water and Dawn dishwashing liquid, followed by a good cleaning with two part teak cleaner (a cheap no-name 6 dollar a gallon brand that I got from Fawcett's in Annapolis several years ago). Then I used a well sharpened CABINET SCRAPER to scrap the spots on the deck. The scraper removes a lot less material than sandpaper.

First time I had used a furniture scraper on the boat. I was rummaging in a tool box and happened on it and a light bulb came on...widely used for fine furniture finishing, why not use them on the boat? It worked so well I used it topside on toe rails and hatches (you can buy one with a kind of French curve shape that is great for scraping curves) and it was MUCH more efficient than sanding.

The cabin sole looks great with oil and other stains barely noticeable. Haven't sealed it yet. Am considering Watco teak sealer, Tung oil, or boiled linseed oil. Don't want a varnish finish...too slippery and too much maintenance. I want to keep it soaked with a good wood or other oil to keep other liquids from staining it while making it easy to clean with soap and water.

That's my planned approach right now. Will take any good advice from anybody on the forum who thinks there is a better way...


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

Soy or citrus stripper and a good cabinet scraper then hand block sand with 180 -220 and a lot of patience


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## willysail (Oct 19, 2010)

I'm off to check the thickness of the veneer, and do some other things on the boat. I have an ECO friendly stripper and dawn liquid soap with me, along with a furniture scrapper. I'll give them a shot and see what happens. I have to get the varnish off the floor in order to do anything with the stains to the teak & holly. As mentioned before I want to stay away from the course sanding and the chances of going through the veneer. I'll post when I get back!!!!
Thanks again guy's.


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## Tweegs (Jun 25, 2010)

Fryewe has a couple of good suggestions. First, the cabinet scraper is an invaluable asset in my little wood shop and I've used them to remove finish and all, especially if there were a minor nick I wanted to remove in the process. They are also great for getting in to tight corners. As an aside, one of those safety razor blades can be used like a mini scraper to remove drips and runs prior to the next coat of finish.

I am also using the Watco teak oil to help recondition the wood/veneer prior to the top coat. The trick with the oil is to let it set for the recommended 3 days, and then go at it with fine steel wool. The oil will not soak in evenly and the steel wool helps blend the areas where oil sat on top and glossed over, with the spots that it did soak in and have a more matte appearance. Without this step, I'm of the opinion the topcoat wouldn't adhere well to the glossy areas.

Teak and holly looks nice, but every boat I've been on has teak and holly soles. I'd like to get away from that. My plan, at this moment in time, is to go with solid teak and give it more of a planked look. Mind you now, I have the luxury of a fully equipped woodworking shop at home. The plan is to get teak hardwood flooring from the big box or flooring shop ¾" thick. Re-saw it (2 boards for the price of 1) on the band saw and plane it to thickness. The abutting edges will be eased rather haphazardly with a hand plane, and then glued (Titebond III) to a marine grade plywood substrate. The carefully removed original soles will serve as a template for the new ones. The new ones will be cut slightly over sized and hand planed/sanded to fit at the boat. What I hope to wind up with is teak at least ¼" thick.

Some thoughts about teak in general:
Teak is an oily wood and doesn't play well with topcoats. The best practice I've found is to wipe the teak down with acetone and apply a thin coat of de-waxed shellac as soon as the acetone evaporates. I stress here de-waxed shellac, if the can doesn't say de-waxed, it isn't (the wax in regular shellac can also cause problems with a topcoat). You can get de-waxed shellac from good paint shops or Woodcraft.com, or to tone the wood slightly, shellac flakes, available in a few different colors, can be purchased from Woodcraft, Rockler or other woodworking supply houses, and dissolved in denatured alcohol. The shellac dries in a minute or two and will provide a barrier coat between the top coat and the wood oils.


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## RussT1950 (Aug 26, 2004)

Tweegs, I am preparring some teak for finishing and would like to rub it down with seafin oil and then varnish it. Will this work, do I need to wipe down with acetone before putting the oil on? Do I need to wipe down w/acetone after oiling?
Thanks, Russ


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## Tweegs (Jun 25, 2010)

I've never used seafin oil, but from what I gather, it is a topcoat finish in and of itself.
Being an oil finish designed for teak and not a varnish that needs to set up and cure, acetone prior to the application is likely not required. Putting a topcoat over it, however, might prove to be a challenge since it is an oil finish.

If it were me, I would build up the seafin as directed, wait the required time, and then in a small, out of the way spot, I'd put just a dab of the intended finish on. If after several hours that dab of finish was still tacky, I'd remove it with acetone, and see what effect the acetone had on the seafin&#8230;the acetone may remove it, too. If the acetone had no adverse effect on the seafin, I'd wipe the entire piece down, shellac, then topcoat with your desired varnish. For exterior work, I highly recommend Epiphanies.

Here is some info I found on the seafin:
http://www.dalyspaint.com/PDF/specs/S-TeakOil.pdf


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## RussT1950 (Aug 26, 2004)

Thanks for the advice


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## willysail (Oct 19, 2010)

Tweegs, I'm sorry for the delay in returning with the information. The Teak & Holly is only a veneer about a 1/16 of a inch. I stopped at the hardware store on the way back and found a water soluble bio-degradable stripper. I sprayed it on a small section and waited 30 to 45 minutes and scrapped it off with a putty knife, it worked great !!!! I washed it with liquid cascade in water and rinsed with clean water and let it dry. The next day I used a sanding pad (Extra Fine) and sanded the area, it looks like new. I'm going to finish the rest of the cabin sole using this method and then we can talk about the finishing touches. Thank again.


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

Hey Tweegs, I have need to replace my soles as you did. I am intrested? what did you end up using? I need to replace mine and Iam not sure what to use. I like the look of the teak & holly cabin sole lamimate, your thoughts?


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

I can verify how quick and easy it is to sand through the holly strips. I would try the scraper approach first, using a carbide scraper. 

Fryewe has a point about scraping, but I would emphasize the use of a CARBIDE scraper. 

I would disagree about an oil finish, however, because it will get dirty and sticky and won't do much to protect the wood from abrasion. I used a gloss varnish on my cabin sole and it has served well over the past 15 years. I did recoat it after about 10 years to restore the gloss, but only used a cleaner and a 3M pad (burgundy) to prep it. I use Epiphanes for trim, but prefer a more abrasion resistant varnish (e.g., Interlux or Petit) for the sole.


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## Tweegs (Jun 25, 2010)

ltgoshen said:


> Hey Tweegs, I have need to replace my soles as you did. I am intrested? what did you end up using? I need to replace mine and Iam not sure what to use. I like the look of the teak & holly cabin sole lamimate, your thoughts?


To be honest, I haven't started yet.
We have a small farm, and with it, a small Maple syrup operation that consumes all of our time for the month of March. Since my boat has been up on the hard, it's been shoved to the back burner while I get ready for the coming syrup season.

I should have all the work wrapped up in the woods this weekend and the plan is to get out to the boat the following weekend. I need to make several templates, including those of the sole, and bring those back to the shop. February is a good month for woodworking where I'm concerned.

My plan hasn't really changed. A marine grade plywood substrate, ¾" teak flooring re-sawn to about ¼" glued to the substrate. This won't be a nice Burmese teak, but likely a plantation teak, it won't have the character of the Burmese (nor the cost), but that's just fine for something that's going to get walked on.

There is nothing wrong with a laminate; you just need to be sure that you get good adhesion to the substrate. If it were me, I'd cut and fit the plywood substrate to the sole first, then apply the laminate to the substrate and finish back at the shop.

In the past when I've applied a laminate or veneer to a larger piece, I left the laminate oversized and coated both the top of substrate and the bottom of the laminate with glue. Allow both to get tacky. Place ¼" dowels, spaced fairly even on the surface of the substrate. Position the laminate on the dowels. Remove the center dowel and, using a roller, roll out the laminate from the center to the outer edges, removing the dowels as you go. Make sure to roll it out good, leave no air pockets. I use another piece of plywood and set something heavy atop it and let the glue set up for 48 hours. A flush trim router bit is a good way to remove the excess laminate.


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## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

When we bought out boat in '94 the original plywood core T&H sole pieces looked awful. (Literally) Black with old oil and ground-in dirt and salt. Divots here n there.
No rot, but horrible otherwise.
I took all of the pieces to a furniture stripping place for a dunk. The owner asked me if I was sure that the glue would be ok (I also took in the cabin table and both leaves), and I told him that they were from an offshore quality boat and that if they failed (Odin forbid!) they should be replaced anyway! 
No problems at all with his solvents. I put in some veneer patches and plugged all the old screw holes, with matching teak.
After sanding with some 150 and 220, we put on many coats of varnish, all sides.
Other than scratches from walking on them since, they look great. Admittedly they are now due for a light sanding and some new varnish coats.
When you put that sole back, be SURE that you make all sections removable via setting the screws flush with the surface or a 32nd down. I have some pics over at the monster sole replacement thread (covering many different boats) at the Ericson owners site.
Removal of glued down cabin sole
One of the longer threads there... pour yourself a cup of coffee before you start reading...


Cheers, and may the Sole be with you!
L


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

*Delaminated plywood*

My sole is a Teak Vaneer that the plywood has delaminated its self. I want to replace it. The covers for the bilge for and aft need to be replaced. I just dont want to spend an arm and leg. But it dont need carpet for sure. I was thinking some laminate like the table top and counter tope except with a non-slipp surfus? Teak brown with white strips in plywood is like 309.00 dollars a sheet.


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## ltgoshen (Jan 5, 2009)

*Red oak builge covers*

What if I make the builge cover of white or red oaf incspsulate in poxy and varnish. then leave the fest of the floor in natural fg? Anybody done this?


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