# Cuba in my sights



## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

If I wanted to make a stop in Cuba while on a cruise how hard would it be? 
I would like to see the island but I am not sure if all the hoops you jump through are worth it. 
Anyone ever stopped there for any length of time?


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## mdbee (May 2, 2007)

*No problem*

As long as you aren't a US citizen.



w1651 said:


> If I wanted to make a stop in Cuba while on a cruise how hard would it be?
> I would like to see the island but I am not sure if all the hoops you jump through are worth it.
> Anyone ever stopped there for any length of time?


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

mdbee said:


> As long as you aren't a US citizen.


So how do I get a Canadian Passport? :laugher


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

To me, the idea of going to Cuba is crazy for an American Citizen, but you do what you want. If I were to go, I would probably punch out of the Tortugas and head south where is is like 60 miles - but should be an easy day-sail though you have to cross the stream. Still, from the Tortugas you can choose your timing to go.

That being said, the getting back in might be tricky. We have had a sharp increase in US CUstoms and Border Patrol here in SW Florida. I have seen them sitting right at the mouth of Sanibel and Fort Myers Beach. There are people that have done it, but I won't - for more reasons than just our US Govt but I won't go there this morning. 

Brian


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

Cruisingdad said:


> To me, the idea of going to Cuba is crazy for an American Citizen, but you do what you want. If I were to go, I would probably punch out of the Tortugas and head south where is is like 60 miles - but should be an easy day-sail though you have to cross the stream. Still, from the Tortugas you can choose your timing to go.
> 
> That being said, the getting back in might be tricky. We have had a sharp increase in US CUstoms and Border Patrol here in SW Florida. I have seen them sitting right at the mouth of Sanibel and Fort Myers Beach. There are people that have done it, but I won't - for more reasons than just our US Govt but I won't go there this morning.
> 
> Brian


That's my point though. Castro is no longer in power and I hear the island is beautiful. 
So why are we still clinging to a foreign policy so out dated. If we went there our capitalistic ways would take over. 
Anyway I know people who have been there but never left the marina. i just want to know how to see the islands interior.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Regardless whether you agree with the laws, they are the laws and the penalties are stiff (take you boat from you). I don't agree with teh seat belt law or the helmet law, but I have to comply. That is a different discussion.

I have never been there. If you are from St Pete, they used to do the St Pete - Havana race there (and still sign up for it every year, just don't get the permit so it gets cancelled). See if you can get some info from them. Try googling the race and reach out to them since they are local to you.

I suspect that there are many people here (Americans) that have been to Cuba. But you might be pressed getting any of them to talk about it online, for obvious reasons. I would carefully research the project and really evaluate my risk factor beforfe proceeding down there. It ain't the going there that will be hard. It will be the getting back in and not getting caught.

Brian


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

Whiskey,

I understand your desire, and hope you don't take this the wrong way.

I'm probably one of the few folks around here who has first-hand, on-the-ground experience of living in Cuba. And yes, I'm a US passport holder.

First, you will drive yourself crazy trying to apply reason as an argument relating to the US-Cuba political relationship. It's a very emotional subject on both sides, and pragmatism rarely prevails in discussions. Just accept things that you cannot change, while keeping your hope alive that policies can and will change. (For the record, I'm not advocating radical change or full repeal of the current policies -- they will almost certainly evolve at their own pace.)

Second, don't take the glowing reviews of Cuba as a cruising Mecca at full face value. The people of Cuba are warm, friendly, and for the most part great folks. Yes the waters are beautiful. Scuba diving, particularly on the southern coast, is great. However, keep in mind that Cuba remains a very bureaucratic and fairly strictly regulated state particularly in regards to foreigners. Many of the vacation resorts catering to foreign tourists, which is a very important source of hard currency income for the government of Cuba, are closed "communities" that keep tourists in and locals (other that the staff) out. This is intentional. The Cuban government maintains its grip on power, but remains cognizant of what Glastnost did to the Soviet Union.

Third, maritime facilities are somewhat spartan and in less than tip-top condition. The Coast Guard and maritime Border Patrol organizations have in some instances proven themselves to be less than friendly, less than helpful, and in some instances complicit in screwing cruisers -- and avenues for seeking redress or compensation for an American are very, very limited.

Fourth, you run a very significant risk of losing your vessel if US authorities determine that you have violated US travel restrictions. Is your desire to visit Cuba so strong that you're willing to take that risk?

In the long run, my guess is that sanctions will ease and travel will become possible. Until that day comes, I for one wouldn't even consider going there.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I hope you take this to heart. 

Best,
PorFin


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

PorFin said:


> Whiskey,
> 
> I understand your desire, and hope you don't take this the wrong way.
> 
> ...


That, PorFin, wzas one of the very best replies I have read on Sailnet in a long time.

Brian


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

Oh, and to your question about seeing the interior of the island -- could you do it? Maybe. You'd probably need to get Cuban government permission to do so, and would be under close supervision and "minded" very carefully. What could happen if you just went on your own without Cuban government permission? Detention, expulsion, and probable loss of your vessel to the Cuban government. Again, a fairly high risk endeavor.


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

Thanks Brian. Every once and a while my brain actually engages on most of its cylinders


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Even for those of us who can legally travel to Cuba, the country can be a bureaucratic nightmare. A kid who works in the yard where we store our boat just spent almost 6 months detained in Cuba because of a minor car accident. Apparently, if a Cuban national is injured in an accident that a foreign national is involved in, the foreigner is detained, even if he is not at fault, until the case is resolved.


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## trisstan87 (Aug 15, 2010)

I am a bit saddened by this posting.. I had planned to do a stop over in Cuba on my way back from North Korea.. Guess i'll have to rechart =/


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

trisstan87 said:


> I am a bit saddened by this posting.. I had planned to do a stop over in Cuba on my way back from North Korea.. Guess i'll have to rechart =/


I hear the folks along the Somali coast are quite welcoming


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## Yorksailor (Oct 11, 2009)

I had to go into Havana/Marina Hemmingway, 5 yrs ago, because of boat problems. American passports, boat and even a second gereration US/Cuban as mate.

They were delightful, did not stamp our passports because they knew it would cause problems with bozo George W.

A Cuban Coast Guard officer congratulated me on putting the boat on the customs dock under sail and got me a Cuban Navy mechanic within an hour.

The head official offered to get a government car to take the first mate to meet any members of his family still in Cuba.

US paranoia is misplaced and incorrect...but do take lots of $s in small denominations the credit cards do not work.


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

they did an article on sailing to Cuba a short while back in Sail magazine. it was within the last 6 months I believe although I am not certain of the exact month. they did portray it as doable and worth doing.


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## soulfinger (Aug 21, 2008)

I agree with CD. Good show.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

w1651 said:


> So how do I get a Canadian Passport? :laugher


Give up your second amendment rights and swear loyalty to the British monarch, and a whole lot of other things.


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

jackdale said:


> Give up your second amendment rights and swear loyalty to the British monarch, and a whole lot of other things.


Funny thing about that. I can get a gun easier that way...


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## Leocat66 (Dec 11, 2010)

Yes, by all means, be patient and wait until it is perfectly safe, legal, and blessed by our totally free and suppressive government. That way you will certainly be assured of missing the real place. You know, high rise condos on every beach, just like Cancun, Cozumel, Belize, Americanized. If you plan to wait, just go to any of those places and see Cuba as it will be when we have their blessing.

It is, as I understand, not illegal to go to Cuba, only to spend US dollars there. I believe that there are several web sites, one connected to one of the KEYS sites, that goes into great detail on cruising to Cuba. If I can find it again I will post it here.

Sure there are risks, and after all, if we all here in the USA always obeyed all of the rules, to the letter, we would still be speaking the kings English. Someone here has a signature line which states that when all is said and done we will regret those things we did not do most of all, or words to that effect.

There are innovative ways to do it if you really want it. A few years ago the good old FEDS tried to prosecute the organizers of a race from south FL to Havana. The charges were dropped. Would have loved to have served on that jury.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Leocat66 said:


> Yes, by all means, be patient and wait until it is perfectly safe, legal, and blessed by our totally free and suppressive government. That way you will certainly be assured of missing the real place. You know, high rise condos on every beach, just like Cancun, Cozumel, Belize, Americanized. If you plan to wait, just go to any of those places and see Cuba as it will be when we have their blessing.
> 
> It is, as I understand, not illegal to go to Cuba, only to spend US dollars there. I believe that there are several web sites, one connected to one of the KEYS sites, that goes into great detail on cruising to Cuba. If I can find it again I will post it here.
> 
> ...


You know, I just have to comment on this. I re-read the post several times and it kept saying the same thing: break the laws because you don't agree with them or because Cuba is pretty now and won't be later.

I simply cannot imagine any place on this planet that is worth me risking my boat, possible imprisonment, tens of thousands of dollars, and at the very least, a LOT of harrassment and aggravation from our government. And frankly, your strong suggestions of taking the law into your own hands and doing whatever you want because you don't agree with them strikes me as irresponsible.

If you want to risk your boat and well-being, that is up to you. I will tell you that, per several local cruisers in Marathon, the US Customs boats in Marathon are just itching to pull people over for coming in from the south. They consistently cruised all around us and our docks. I had another sailor in marathon tell me that the govt was flying a blimp or something to watch to see who was crossing from there. Do I beleive all of it? Well, what I saw certainly made me think twice.

I have heard the hear-say about jumping south to Mexico before coming home, not getting your passport stamped, or telling the US Government that you didn't spend a penny in Cuba because Castro is running an international kegger. I just cannot see that it is worth the risk and I would never encourage others to take the risk.

My opinions.

Brian


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I swear, if it wasn't forbidden, no American would want to go there any more than any other Caribbean island. What's the fascination?


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, it's one of the most beautiful, mystical places you'll ever see, for starters&#8230; Even in its advanced state of decay, Havana is a wondrous place, a magnificent architectural and cultural example of one of the great colonial outposts of the New World. Even today, it's easy to see how someone like Hemingway became enchanted with the place, and the sultriness and quality of the light to be found there is just the beginning of what is so special about Cuba&#8230;










Ever had the urge to travel back in time? A visit to Cuba is about as close as you'll get in today's world, it remains virtually unspoiled by the trappings of modernity you'll find throughout the rest of the Caribbean&#8230; Much of that will change in a heartbeat, of course, once the place becomes open to Americans, and it will quickly be on the road to becoming just like anywhere else Americans currently travel en masse...




























Probably just me, but I think it's always healthy to be reminded how privileged we as Americans are, and what whiny bitches as a nation we have become&#8230; (grin) You won't receive a warmer, more genuine and generous welcome anywhere than from the Cuban people, they fully appreciate the risk an American takes traveling there, and are deeply appreciative of that fact, and the effort we've made to travel there&#8230; Despite the grimness of their lives, they are just a wonderful people, very well informed politically, eager to discuss their future prospects with Americans&#8230; I found it extremely rare to be treated as just another tourist "mark" in Cuba, as has become so commonplace in the rest of the Caribbean&#8230;



















Then there's the colors, and the artwork&#8230; Very unique and distinctive, one of my most treasured paintings is from the artists flea market in Havana&#8230;










Of course, if you like cars, the whole damn place is a living museum&#8230; You'll be blown away by the ingenuity these people display, keeping their fleet running with the limited resources at their disposal...



















Finally, there's the cruising itself&#8230; Fairly challenging, and if you want to get away from the hordes of kroozers infesting most of the rest of the Caribbean, this is the place. You'll likely be on your own in many places, I never saw another boat in the 5 days I spent in Baracoa, for example&#8230;










Make no mistake, cruising in Cuba can still be a frustrating experience in many respects, dealing with the bureaucracy gets VERY old, VERY quickly&#8230; But still, one of the most fascinating, rewarding, and educational cruising experiences I've ever had, I'm really glad I took the chance to go there when I did&#8230;


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## Leocat66 (Dec 11, 2010)

Thank you again JON. You truly have a unique way of sharing. Gorgeous photos too! Some of the most beautiful I have ever seen. Part of my screen saver now. You are truly a lucky man JON.

CD, isn't it sad that you and many of us are so intimidated to this degree by our own government. As you say, they are waiting, like vultures to pounce on those attempting to exercise those things that a free society pretends to stand for and defend. 

As sailors, those with a free spirit, we seem so easily to accept these affronts to freedom as matter of fact. No man is truly free while tethered by any government restrictions, especially as they relate to travel outside of war time. 

We have no restrictions relating to China or Russia. We pick on only those that we can bully. A beautiful island with warm friendly people is certainly no threat to us.

LINK: bootkeyharbor.com - click on Cuba at the top of the page.


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## souljour2000 (Jul 8, 2008)

I'm in south Florida and would like to visit Cuba but it isn't high on my list of places in the Caribbean. I suppose if your a bit salty and been everywhere from Venezuela to Bimini and every point in between then you'd want to go but if you really want to go then I'd say wait a couple years...recent Wiki-leaks posts show that many in the US State Dept. and other governments abroad feel Cuba is about to have a "Glasnost" moment..if you don't know what that is..look it up...

They are under a new ruler these days..as we know...Raul Castro...and he isn't that much younger than the old ruler...whom we all know too well...Wait awhiles more I says..go check out somewhere else cool..and be patient...I ain't been in the Caribbean much..just Florida for the better part of 25 years or so now but the Bahamas or Dominican and Puerto Rico alone would occupy me for years if I ever get to 'em in me boat...workin on it..

Good luck gettin' to old Cuba though..it might be worth it to wait a tad longer though..

.Afterall..we've waited 50 years for Cuba already in a lot of ways... Hell, New England waited almost a hundred for the Red Sox to win again...Go Rays!!


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

Leocat66 said:


> Thank you again JON. You truly have a unique way of sharing. Gorgeous photos too! Some of the most beautiful I have ever seen. Part of my screen saver now. You are truly a lucky man JON.
> 
> CD, isn't it sad that you and many of us are so intimidated to this degree by our own government. As you say, they are waiting, like vultures to pounce on those attempting to exercise those things that a free society pretends to stand for and defend.
> 
> ...


Thanks A lot for the link. I have bookmarked it.


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

Thank you for the pics Jon. They are amazing and only make me want to go there more. I was wondering about coming at the island from the south by way of the Florida straights. Was wondering about your thoughts on the best way to make land there.

Cruising Dad 
I understand what your saying and I can respect your point of view here. But as Leocat said and myself being a strict constitutionalist. What right does our Government have telling me not to go anywhere. If you want to put out a tourist warning fine by all means do it.
You say the risk isn't worth it or the costs are to great to do it. 
Remember that was what they told the Colonists that fought England for the freedom we supposedly have. I'm tired of the oppression from my Government. A passport to get back to my home country if I take a cruise? Really? We better start waking up in this country before all our rights and freedoms are legislated away because of 17 Saudis and 2 Arabs.

I know there's a fine line between brave and crazy and maybe I am a little nuts. But if I want to travel the world and see things most never see then that is my right and privilege under the constitution and I take full reponsibility for my actions and circumstances when I get there.
Embargo be dammed! It hasn't worked anyway.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

First,

Jon - Wonderful pictures. Wondreful writeup. Nothing political, just a outsiders view looking in. I really enjoyed the pics and thank you for sharing.

Leocat and W1651 (and any others),

Let me be clear about about my feelings: First, I never said I agreed with our governments decisions on that island. I can see why they did it 40 or 50 whatever years ago. I have watched and read documentary on it. The reality is that it did not and has not worked. Does not do any good to cast an embargo on the island if no one else does, especially your allies. That is true for any country, especially Cuba. But don't forget that the man that is REALLY still in charge there was going to put nuclear missles on that island and damn near started WWIII. In fact, it was probably the closest our world has ever come to a nuclear holocost. He is also nothing short of a tyrant. Being from South Florida and knowing many cubans, his very name brings disgust to most that I have spoken to. They have lost family members that have been imprisoned, pushed around and had all or most possessions taken on a whim, people dissaperaing in the middle of the night. The beauty of the landscape should not shrowd our eyes to the horrors of what has happened there (and still happens today). Let me show you one of my Cuban pictures:










This is only one of the boats that Cubans use and have used to escape the island. They load them up with men, women, and children and escape in the middle of the night hoping that fate plays their way and they make it past the gunboats and very rough waters that seperate our mainland. Many die on this trip. But ask yourself how, even today, a people would risk the lives of their very children/babies and everything they own on a risky chance of making landfall and touching US soil. There were three of these that they still had not dragged off of the Tortugas when I was there only a few months back. I snorkeled off of logerhead and found the pieces of another sunk just south of the lighthouse.

If anyone feels strongly about Cuba and the restrictions of our government, there are ways to deal with that. It involves reaching out to your local leaders and making a political stand to challenge its decisions. Write your congressman, show up on his doorstep, stage a demonstration, run for office. Work within the system to help orchestrate your beliefs. And while you do, remember that the very process by which you challenge your government here might get you shot or imprisoned in Cuba (if you could do it at all). That is the very feedom they lack and certianly one of the reasons they risk life and property and imprisonment to cross a very rough stretch of water and come to our country. And its funny, but I cannot remember the last time an American risked his life, his wife's, his childrens, and everything he owns to try and defect to Cuba. Our country ain't so bad.

My opinions.

Brian


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## Leocat66 (Dec 11, 2010)

When the Feds take a person to court they usually attempt to apply pressure in order to make a deal and secure a plea from the accused. That is apparently what happened when the race organizers were charged relating to the race to Havana a few years ago. Apparently the organizers refused to take a plea and were therefore set to go to trial.

Whenever a case goes to trial there is a chance that the defendant might be found not guilty. That would be quite a negative for the prosecution especially in a case such as that, and would set a precedence, therefore making it nearly impossible to proceed against anyone from that day forward on a similar case. Imagine the consequences to a ruling such as that. They would have to appeal it all the way to the Supreme Court and could loose, allowing all here to travel to Cuba freely without consequence. The FEDS never want that to happen, and therefore dropped the charges, as I understand, leaving the law intact. We need a test case, but probably will never get one.. 

They intimidate those that they can through scare tactics. This way they can continue to bully us, as most of us cannot afford to hire high priced attorneys.

Remember CD that the only information that we have about Cuba and its threat to us comes from our government. Our government tells lies too. I think for myself and research as best I can to learn the real truth, which typically falls somewhere in the middle. Many a treaty has been made with the American Indian. The US Government has never kept one! 

This is certainly quite political, but it does affect all cruisers from the US also.


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

Well noted Brian. And I do understand where you are coming from. But as Leocat has stated it's our own allies not conforming to the embargo that makes it useless.
Not to mention all the cubans in Miami sending whirlpool washers and frigidaire freezers to their relatives via Mexico.
Gloria Esteffan even said when Castro dies she's moving back to Cuba. Ya ! Right! 
Look the reason they come in those boats is it's only 90 miles away and all they have to do is touch ground here and they can stay. But that's another thread in another place.
Ya Cuba sucks to live in. I just want to visit and who the Heck is the US Gov to tell me I can't? It's bad enough I need a passport to come off a boat from a cruise. 
You wanna talk Government totalitarianism we will have to change forums. The list in this country is long my friend.


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## Canuckster (Feb 15, 2010)

What does a Canadian Passport and American Express have in common ??
I never leave home without them !


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I agree there is silliness in how the embargo is managed. However, Cuba is the closest government that not only could but actually has attempted to install WMDs for the explicit purpose of threatening the USA. It is so close, we would not be able to react in time to a launch. Americans would die. 

The leadership of the government that made that attempt is still in power. You don't think they just changed their minds and removed the missiles out of the goodness of their hearts, do you? Then, when the Russians had little use for that strategic alliance any longer, they abandoned Cuba. 

I'm sure we will all get past this one day, but not for a minute do I trust the current leadership in Cuba. They haven't threatened Europe, Mexico or Canada, which is why those countries haven't put a horse in this race.


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## Leocat66 (Dec 11, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> I agree there is silliness in how the embargo is managed. However, Cuba is the closest government that not only could but actually has attempted to install WMDs for the explicit purpose of threatening the USA. It is so close, we would not be able to react in time to a launch. Americans would die.
> 
> The leadership of the government that made that attempt is still in power. You don't think they just changed their minds and removed the missiles out of the goodness of their hearts, do you? Then, when the Russians had little use for that strategic alliance any longer, they abandoned Cuba.
> 
> I'm sure we will all get past this one day, but not for a minute do I trust the current leadership in Cuba. They haven't threatened Europe, Mexico or Canada, which is why those countries haven't put a horse in this race.


Well Minnewaska you are correct, Cuba never threatened Europe, Canada, or Mexico. However, none of those countries ever attempted an invasion of Cuba, BAY OF PIGS comes to mind.

We have always approved of any dictator, in any country, as long as we controlled them. You are also correct in feeling that the Cuban government cannot be trusted, nor can ours.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Leocat66 said:


> Well Minnewaska you are correct, Cuba never threatened Europe, Canada, or Mexico. However, none of those countries ever attempted an invasion of Cuba, BAY OF PIGS comes to mind.
> 
> We have always approved of any dictator, in any country, as long as we controlled them. You are also correct in feeling that the Cuban government cannot be trusted, nor can ours.


That's a little harsh, and I'm no fan of our government these days.

Bay of Pigs was not entirely an unprovoked attack on a leader that we couldn't control. It was during the middle of the cold war and Cuba was clearly conspiring with the Soviet Union against the US, as ultimately proven during the missile crisis. I don't think Cuba was conspiring against Mexico during the cold war.

It isn't that we disapproved of a dictator that wouldn't be controlled, it was retaliation for a dictator that was conspiring to do harm to us.

Now, I still think we should have been able to resolve this by now. But, we haven't and neither has Cuba.


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## lobstahpotts (Jan 1, 2011)

This thread is rapidly turning into a political/historical debate. I would suggest people who have not been to Cuba by boat/do not have relevant information for w1651 about the procedures, precautions, and preparations to make for his potential voyage. I don't think the rightness and justification for the embargo and government positions should be addressed here, simply how, what, and when the author could go about this trip if he decides to. It comes down to a personal choice, and those who have already posted have made clear the benefits and shortcomings. Let's stop the politics now and offer relevant responses to the original question.
I personally know many cruisers who have gone to Cuba by boat and had a wonderful time, with no problems from the US government later on. I would say plan on taking additional time and don't cruise to only Cuba if you are able. There are many other places worth seeing, and it may be safer/easier to return from one of these places. Also consider taking a longer sail to re-enter the US in a more northern port such as Pensacola or New Orleans if you want to allay concerns raised about the Customs agents in ports such as Marathon, it is only a few days further to sail up the gulf and you can have an enjoyable sail back to St. Pete along the US coast.
Happy Sailing!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Since the OP's location says FL and they are asking about something that is specifically illegal for a US citizen to do, I don't think it is too far off the path to dabble in why that is the case. 

The analogy, as infuriating as it may be, is this. 

When you buy illegal drugs, your money is going directly to fund the drug cartels, which kill people everyday. When you travel to and spend money in Cuba, you are helping fund a government that has attempted to install missiles aimed at your family. By all indications, if we hadn't muscled them out, they would do it again. 

I don't like that we haven't figured out a way to get past this and believe we have made some bad moves that exacerbated the situation. I suspect we could have negotiated our way through this, but with several attempts on Castro's life along the way, I doubt they are very interested in talking.

I will vote for someone that is willing to change the laws I don't agree with, but will abide by them until they do. You are free to make your own decisions, I'm not here to pick a fight. Just explaining the subtle highjacking.


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## lobstahpotts (Jan 1, 2011)

I think what has been established is that it is not technically illegal to go, if I understood the previous posts correctly. I would caution anyone considering this trip to carefully read up on the government legislation and consult local officials for accurate, up-to-date information on the subject including the current government's level of enforcement and interpretation of clauses. Beyond that, godspeed and have a wonderful trip!


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## shutterflypro (Dec 5, 2008)

I am a US citizen and I was in Havana about this time last year. The government and the people both love to have us there.

It is our government that has the issues with us going there. Remember this that when you do leave if you head in any direction remotely close to a direction that will lead you into US water you will be boarded.

Visiting the country was one of the most memorable times of my life. I look forward to the next time I can return.


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## lobstahpotts (Jan 1, 2011)

So it would seem the best way to approach a Cuba trip is make it the first or second stop on a more extended cruise to other, government-approved Caribbean destinations to avoid many of the issues associated with approaching and entering the US from Cuba. Douglas and Bernadette Bernon did just this leaving on their cruise on Ithaka, albeit 10 years ago. Their account of sailing to Cuba is available here, I haven't read it in a while but seem to recall it references the government issues, at least on the Cuba side of things. Hope this is useful: BoatUS Cruising Logs


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

There is no debate that it is illegal for a US citizen to travel to Cuba for tourism, despite whether some get away with it. I don't pick and choose which laws I will and will not follow, whether I like them or not. You are free to make your own choices.

Cuba

ENTRY / EXIT REQUIREMENTS, TRAVEL TRANSACTION LIMITATIONS: The Cuban Assets Control Regulations are enforced by the U.S. Department of the Treasury and affect all U.S. citizens and permanent residents wherever they are located, all people and organizations physically located in the United States, and all branches and subsidiaries of U.S. organizations throughout the world. The regulations require that persons subject to U.S. jurisdiction be licensed in order to engage in any travel-related transactions pursuant to travel to, from, and within Cuba. _*Transactions related to tourist travel are not licensable.*_ _*This restriction includes tourist travel to Cuba from or through a third country such as Mexico or Canada.*_ U.S. law enforcement authorities enforce these regulations at U.S. airports and pre-clearance facilities in third countries. Travelers who fail to comply with Department of the Treasury regulations could face civil penalties and criminal prosecution upon return to the United States.


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## lobstahpotts (Jan 1, 2011)

Yes, but that refers to "TRAVEL TRANSACTIONS", or worded alternately, spending money while there, and not to travel itself. Per technical wording of the law, one can technically go there legally by boat and not spend money, bringing all of your food, etc etc and not purchasing souvenirs while in the country. However, US Customs will assume you must have spent money there if you were there unless you can prove otherwise, a "guilty until proven innocent" situation. One of the often referenced solutions to this is to take on a Canadian crew member and have this person make all purchases and have proof in form of receipts, etc, to that extent.
All of this being said, certainly the safest course is to wait and see what happens now given the position of our government and the newish leadership in Cuba.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

lobstahpotts said:


> Yes, but that refers to "TRAVEL TRANSACTIONS", or worded alternately, spending money while there, and not to travel itself. Per technical wording of the law, one can technically go there legally by boat and not spend money, bringing all of your food, etc etc and not purchasing souvenirs while in the country. However, US Customs will assume you must have spent money there if you were there unless you can prove otherwise, a "guilty until proven innocent" situation. One of the often referenced solutions to this is to take on a Canadian crew member and have this person make all purchases and have proof in form of receipts, etc, to that extent.
> All of this being said, certainly the safest course is to wait and see what happens now given the position of our government and the newish leadership in Cuba.


That is too risky a situation for my blood. Further, the linked site that I provided above has this.

"_Cuba has announced that as of May 2010 it will start requiring visitors to have non-U.S. medical insurance, and will sell a temporary policy to those who do not have it_."

Not sure how a US citizen is going to keep from spending money there, if that is even an appropriate interpretation. I even wonder if the money you spent on your boat/fuel, etc to show up counts.

Also, remember that you are subject to Cuban law when on their soil. That is standard international law. Should you find yourself in an accident, even if not your fault, or a bind of some kind, who are you going to reach out to for help? Will you call the "Special Interests section" which operates under the authority of the Swiss government, because we do not have an embassy there? First question from them.... what are you doing here?

This is just all too much for my risk tolerance.


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## rikhall (Feb 7, 2008)

w1651 said:


> I'm tired of the oppression from my Government. A passport to get back to my home country if I take a cruise? Really?


I will not pass an opinion here as I am not a US citizen, but I do softly smile that you can come visit us in Canada with just picture ID (driver's licence) but you need a Passport to get back into your own country.

Ya gotta love politics!

Take care and enjoy where ever you cruise.

Rik


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

OK, I'll offer some comments, based on my own experience cruising Cuba back in 2003, one year before President Bush issued his very tough proclamation restricting sailing to Cuba&#8230;

In an effort to be able to claim we spent no money there, we obtained travel visas in advance through the Cuban Interests Section of the Swiss Embassy in Washington&#8230; they cost roughly twice what one would pay upon arrival in Cuba, of course&#8230; Only problem is, Cuba has a departure fee, so despite whatever measures you take - getting the BS letter from the Club Nautico at Marina Hemingway saying you were "hosted", and whatnot, that departure fee is the one thing you might have difficulty convincing our State Dept. you managed to circumvent&#8230;

I did manage to avoid it, I just pulled a runner when I sailed out of Baracoa&#8230; One look at the local Patrol Boat, I knew they weren't gonna be chasing me, I doubt they had any fuel for the POS, anyway&#8230;

We sailed to Havana direct from Key West, without the supposedly required Security Zone clearance&#8230; No problem, it was blowing big out of the NE, we were the only fools out there that day&#8230;

Check in in Havana was very straightforward, but extremely tedious, as is dealing with officialdom in Cuba invariably is&#8230; One of the best examples of how little they have, most times when officials came aboard to do the reams of paperwork, they had to BORROW a pen or pencil of mine to perform their duties&#8230; they were always extremely grateful for the gift of a writing instrument at the end of business&#8230; Surprisingly, the only time in all my dealings with officials throughout Cuba anyone so much hinted at a gift "in consideration for their services", was from the doctor who did the medical inspection of the boat in Havana&#8230;

Perhaps the biggest misconception about sailing to Cuba, is that a considerable number of Americans were doing it, at least at that time&#8230;. My understanding is, there was a bit of a chill in the wake of Bush's proclamation for a year or so, but things quickly returned to normal&#8230;

That's not to say many mom & pop cruisers were doing so, however&#8230; Most American visitors were of considerable means, lots of 2 million dollar sportfishermen, and so on&#8230; Tommy Hilfiger's 170' Benetti TOMMY stayed in Marina Hemingway for weeks, apparently confident Bush was not gonna confiscate someone's $25 million yacht&#8230; I've heard that refrain repeatedly from the sportfishing crowd, many of whom simply store their boats in Havana to avoid the obscene marina fees of Key West, and top off with that cheap Chavez diesel&#8230;

I had no trouble traveling within Cuba, I rented a car for several days from a resort in Guardalavaca, when I stopped in Puerta Vita&#8230; Explored the local countryside, and drove down to Santiago, fascinating travel&#8230; Who knows what would have happened if I'd had an accident, but I doubt it would have been as catastrophic had something gone equally wrong halfway across the Gulf Stream on my way there... (grin) Nothing money, or maybe some trinket like my snazzy Seiko chronograph wouldn't have been able to fix, would be my guess...

Another misconception, is that we have no diplomatic relations with Cuba&#8230; Well, that may be the official line, but one of the few modern buildings in downtown Havana is a 12 story edifice that is very heavily guarded by police. Don't even THINK about pulling out a camera when you're within sight of that building, no need to ask me how I know this&#8230; (grin) But, one thing all the Americans visiting Cuba soon learn - if you lose your passport while in Cuba, that's the place you're gonna head for&#8230;

Finally, don't even THINK for a moment that your visit to Cuba might go undetected&#8230; A couple of days at Marina Hemingway, you'll soon recognize the local "mole" who strolls the grounds noting the new arrivals, his movements were as predictable as clockwork&#8230; And, the Straits of Florida are among the most heavily surveiled waters anywhere on earth&#8230; Not only will someone in the US intelligence community know you sailed either to or from Cuba, they probably know what book you were reading in the cockpit enroute&#8230; (grin)

Whether they actually CARE, of course, is another matter&#8230; I have two clients who took their own boats to Cuba, and received the letter from the State Department eventually&#8230; They simply chose to ignore them, and never heard anything further&#8230; YMMV, of course, but in this area I suspect our government is largely mostly bark, and little bite - just my own hunch, of course&#8230;

Just my own opinion, no one should construe this as any sort of _advice_, but I think there is currently little risk for an American to visit Cuba, _as part of an extended, continuing cruise to other parts of the Caribbean basin, or when a return to America is not in the immediate offing_ Visiting Cuba, then returning directly to the States, could quite possibly be a whole different ballgame, and a chance that - personally - I would not take at this time&#8230;

One closing comment of a political nature, if I may&#8230; One would really have to be blind to spend much time in Cuba, and fail to appreciate the consequences of our policy/embargo of the beautiful people of that beautiful country&#8230; Each country shares the blame, of course, but I really hope we someday soon wind up with an American President with the sort of vision Nixon demonstrated with his overture to China&#8230; It would be a wonderful, magnanimous, long-overdue gesture of a great _Statesman_, to put aside the petty political considerations of a small bloc of voters at home, and simply declare "You know, I think it's time that the Castros and I sat down and had a little TALK&#8230;" Truly pathetic, that a country as great as America, can't seem to bring itself to extend such a modest olive branch to one of our closest neighbors in this hemisphere&#8230;

The brief encounter I had with the 3 gentlemen pictured below remains one of my most memorable of my time in Cuba. That is in the lookout tower at Morro Castle, overlooking the entrance to Havana harbor&#8230; Those men represent three generations of the same family, the grandfather had been manning that post for over half a century, the radar they were using appeared to be just about as old&#8230;

On the right in the background, you can see a series of shelves that house the flags of most of the nations of the world. It is customary at this station, whenever foreign ship enters Havana, they hoist the flag of the visitor's country in salute&#8230;

The old man spoke no English, and my high school Spanish is mostly forgotten, but fortunately his son and grandson spoke quite good English&#8230; They made it clear, that if the patriarch could have one wish granted in the time that was left to him, it would be to have the honor of hoisting the Stars and Stripes for the first American ship to sail into Havana since the revolution&#8230;

I think if I could have a couple of minutes alone with an American President, that might very well be the story I'd share&#8230;


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

lobstahpotts said:


> This thread is rapidly turning into a political/historical debate. I would suggest people who have not been to Cuba by boat/do not have relevant information for w1651 about the procedures, precautions, and preparations to make for his potential voyage. I don't think the rightness and justification for the embargo and government positions should be addressed here, simply how, what, and when the author could go about this trip if he decides to. It comes down to a personal choice, and those who have already posted have made clear the benefits and shortcomings. Let's stop the politics now and offer relevant responses to the original question.
> I personally know many cruisers who have gone to Cuba by boat and had a wonderful time, with no problems from the US government later on. I would say plan on taking additional time and don't cruise to only Cuba if you are able. There are many other places worth seeing, and it may be safer/easier to return from one of these places. Also consider taking a longer sail to re-enter the US in a more northern port such as Pensacola or New Orleans if you want to allay concerns raised about the Customs agents in ports such as Marathon, it is only a few days further to sail up the gulf and you can have an enjoyable sail back to St. Pete along the US coast.
> Happy Sailing!


Thanks Lobsta. 
Where did your friends enter Cuba? Did they sail around the island or stay at one port and travel from there?


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

Thanks also Jon

It is a shame that for some reason we here in America are everywhere on this planet but in our own Hemisphere. 
We are so worried about the pacific and Bosnia and Western Europe we have forgotten the there is a continent and many many countries on our own side of the planet.


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## lobstahpotts (Jan 1, 2011)

w1651 said:


> Thanks Lobsta.
> Where did your friends enter Cuba? Did they sail around the island or stay at one port and travel from there?


Sailors I know, along with some documented passages like the Bernons I linked to earlier, all sail first to Havana to check in at Marina Hemingway. They have then gotten permission, etc. to continue cruising along the coast, generally west towards Mexico, allowing for passage to points south after the Cuba trip. However, to each his own and everyone should plan the trip they want to go on.

Alternately, become an internationally recognized medical charity and go there with ABSOLUTELY no restrictions!


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## Leocat66 (Dec 11, 2010)

It seems that now, as we speak, here on this subject, much truth is being brought out about Cuba. Many classified documents from our government are right out there to be read, by all, as they have been released by our government and by the Cuban government recently. Some apparently relate to Wikileaks. Read for yourself, from some of our governments very own documents, about some of the underhanded tactics involved, and find out what this government was up to back then. We have never been told the total truth.

Google - Cuba documents released. Especially interesting are the documents associated with our "Operation Northwoods"


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## jfurlong (Apr 16, 2010)

Not sailing related, but for anyone interested in the history of Cuba, it's relations with the U.S. and an unbiased look at the embargo with input from all sides of the argument, I recommend the documentary "Tell Me Cuba".


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

lobstahpotts said:


> Sailors I know, along with some documented passages like the Bernons I linked to earlier, all sail first to Havana to check in at Marina Hemingway. They have then gotten permission, etc. to continue cruising along the coast, generally west towards Mexico, allowing for passage to points south after the Cuba trip. However, to each his own and everyone should plan the trip they want to go on.
> 
> Alternately, become an internationally recognized medical charity and go there with ABSOLUTELY no restrictions!


How do I become or better yet work for a real charity? I would like to do a little work on the island as well as see it. Do you know of any christian charities doing good work there?


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## Popeyensweetp (Feb 13, 2009)

*I have Sailed to Cuba six times*

One of the best places I have been in the world, people are fantastic, city is like said on this forum breathtaking.

It will be a sad day when star bucks sells trash garbage coffee on the streets of Havana but it will happen,

Go to Cuba if you can as fast as you can, period end of story. Last trip sailed a Pearson Triton alone to Cuba. it was to ruff to go into Marina Hemingway, the Cubans let me sail past Morrow Castle into the Havana Harbor, along came a ancient diesel sub in the Harbor. Like in the movies,.

My Cuban friends are great, it is said at least one person is lost at sea every day in an attempt to get to America, I think its is true so sad.

On my return to Key West, a Cuban Gun boat with defector military men tied up to the wharf, they threw their guns on shore and asked for directions to the police, classic just classic.

God Speed go just go

Popeye

Good luck


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## centaursailor (Nov 7, 2010)

jackdale said:


> Give up your second amendment rights and swear loyalty to the British monarch, and a whole lot of other things.


No need to bend the knee to the Brits:hothead . Check out the family tree, find that Irish grand parent or, just as good, marry Irish. You can then enjoy all things Irish, find a welcom everywere you go with the possible exception of the loyalist bits up North. Passports are also availabe from our local politicians as is everything else for a fee. Cash only tho.
Cuba,s on my list if I ever sail across the pond. 
Happy non-invasive sailing:laugher


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## lobstahpotts (Jan 1, 2011)

w1651 said:


> How do I become or better yet work for a real charity? I would like to do a little work on the island as well as see it. Do you know of any christian charities doing good work there?


As I recall Catholic Charities Miami at least did post-hurricane work in Cuba. If one were to search around I am certain one could find other valid institutions.


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

It's very difficult to get information, charts and cruising guides for Cuba. Here is one source and while the guides mentioned in the website will not be available for the foreseable future questions can be asked. Cuba Cruising Guides, Sailing resources for Cuba
Cuba IMHO will not open up to US citizens as long as the Castros control Cuba. Those opposed to opening Cuba are far more powerful (afterall the assinated a president) and organized than the handful of disorganized tourists and/or cruisers who wish to go there. One or two people are not going to sway the government and so in the meantime I think it would be foolish for an American citizen to go to Cuba.
I also believe the US needs to take a look at the morality of persecuting a people who actually have done nothing to them.


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## delite (Nov 2, 2009)

I have been to Cuba several times but never by boat. There are Americans there you just cant get a direct flight. Most Americans go through Mexico city. They do not stamp your passport in Cuba so no issue there. The risk is from the US Govt not Cuba. I have traveled extensively through the island and found the people very warm and friendly and have never had any problems with locals or the police. I have found Americans at most of the places I have been to on the island. Marina facilities are few and far between.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

delite said:


> ....The risk is from the US Govt not Cuba.....


This is not entirely correct. You are subject to Cuban law while you are in their country. That is the same for any country you visit. You will have a very unique problem if you get in an accident or accidentally break a law. Do you know their laws, by the way? What if you boat breaks free and damages a Cuban's property? There is no embassy there to help you. American's traveling legally to Cuba are required to register with the Swiss Embassy, but you can't if you are not supposed to be there.


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## delite (Nov 2, 2009)

You are quite correct and I wasnt advocating entering the country illegally or breaking any laws just saying that while in Cuba Americans have little to fear as the Cubans are not out to get you unlike some other places. They are more likely to be hassled by their own government than by the police in Cuba while traveling on a US passport.


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

I keep seeing Americans on TV that have holdings there. I was watching PBS and the Anchor talked with an American that had a ranch and herd of cattle there. So there are people there working against the American policy.
Probably few and far between though.


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## RXBOT (Sep 7, 2007)

The easiest and cheapest way for US citzens to visit Cuba is fly from Newprovidence island Bahamas. Perhaps take Swiss francs or Canadian dollars to eliminate paper trails of using credit cards or accessing US accounts to obtain Cuban funds.


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## Geor9ges (Sep 1, 2009)

Unfortunately this discussion has rambled somewhat, so here is back to the nautical aspect.

Having sailed to and around Cuba for several winters since 2008, I find there are two ways to go.

If you have money and own a 60ft or bigger crewed motor yacht, go to Hemingway. There were three of them there Christmas-New Years 2009-10, one registered Fort Lauderdale, one from Newport and one from Delaware plus a large motor sailer from New Orleans (he had a Cuban wife).

If you don't have financial clout, go through the Raggeds (Duncantown) in the Bahamas to Baia la Vita in Holguin cruise Cuba for two months, one month visa renewed once (stay far off Guantanamo, the CG comes out even if you are 5 miles off and if they do, say you are going to Jamaica), do the south shore islands to Cayo Largo and head back to the Bahamas through Baia La Vita. The snorkling is fantastic and the beaches are paradise (but you have to find them, most islands are mangrove). Your paperwork will show only that you have been in the Bahamas. We have never had problems on returning to Florida. (I hope no one in homeland security monitors this).

For a short two week cruise, go from Baia La Vita to Baracoa and back. Rent scooters to visit the countryside or hire a driver.

The crossing from the Bahamas to Cuba is by far the most comfortable, with the Bahama current, no wind against current. The only really rough part is the return along the southern shore from Cabo Cruz to Punto Maisi with strong headwinds. It is not called the Windward passage for nothing. There are few anchorages along this shore, but there are harbors every 60 miles or so. We always motor sail back, port tack out in the morning and starboard tack back inshore in the afternoon as the wind shifts from northwest to southwest during the day.

As for charts, admittedly they are hard to obtain, but with GPS chips for the off shore work (they are based on old US surveys and are not accurate for inshore) you can keep track of your general position. I use Nigel Calder's guide, it has excellent and detailed inshore charts and if you take their coordinates for way points, they are dead on. Simon Charles' guide is more enterntaining than useful.

Yes, now they charge $ 3 per day for medical insurance. Don't bother with US bank or credit cards, because of the embargo they don't (or wont) work. Cash, US $, Can $ or Euros are no problem for exchange at the CADECA. Public internet, limited to the larger towns and hotels, is slow and expensive ($ 6 per hour). So bring your pretyped texts on a USB.

Don't sweat officialdom, they are awfully friendly and considerate (they even put on socks to cover their boots when they come on board). I have never seen US officials do the same. And the cocker spaniels for drug inspections are cute. Just have the paperwork ready and they do the rest. Unlike Bermuda, it is one stop shopping.

As for repair work, Cubans are very ingenious and industrious. Once when out rudder jumped the gudgeon and the rudder stock was bent in a fierce northerly (unexpected), they took it out and repaired it. The only difficulty as finding stainless steel (we took a collection amongst the foreign boats there and they re manufactured the fitting).

AH, don't forget, you won't get good marine weather forecasts in Cuba. So subscribe to a short wave service before.

Finally, US insurance firms do not cover claims in Cuba, get coverage from a UK firm.


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

Thanks Geor9ges

That's what I am looking for. Especially the tips and resources like Nigel Calders for charts.

What's it like running around in Cuba on a scooter? Anything like you see on TV in France or Italy? I was in china and a red light means go and a green light go faster if you know what I mean.


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## Geor9ges (Sep 1, 2009)

The scooters can be rented at all hotels but they are little 49cc's so they don't go much over 30 MPH. There are not that many traffic lights in Cuba, but vehicles tend to obey signs. Cuba, by the way, is a very safe country, lgical since ther are lots of police and military. Marinas have excellent security.


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## seanolsen (Feb 13, 2011)

dont listen to all the sheeple go if you wish. probly best to go from somewhere else than key west or tortugas though. as big brother is watching that area


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

seanolsen said:


> dont listen to all the sheeple go if you wish. probly best to go from somewhere else than key west or tortugas though. as big brother is watching that area


I think it's extremely naïve for anyone visiting Cuba by yacht to assume they can avoid detection by heading to Puerto Vita through the Jumentos, for instance&#8230; The only realistic assumption to make is that _someone_ working for Uncle Sam will know you've visited Cuba&#8230; the waters surrounding eastern Cuba and the Windward Passage are very closely watched, that's the area any traffic from Jamaica or Haiti will be transiting, after all&#8230;

Years ago I heard an eye-opening story from a guy who worked drug interdiction for the Coast Guard, was the radar operator on an AWACS type aircraft&#8230; One night they were tracking a go-fast boat approaching the Caymans, but it was a squally night with heavy thunderstorms, and the guy lost contact&#8230; After a minute or so, he notified his pilot on the intercom that he had momentarily lost the guy, and was unable to re-acquire him&#8230;

After a brief interval, they heard what could only be described as "the voice of God" on their frequency: "Son, your target is at&#8230;" and read off the coordinates, speed and heading, etc&#8230;

The crew had no idea precisely where that transmission came from, though they had their hunches, of course&#8230;

The point being, our government's surveillance and intelligence gathering capabilities in that region are astonishing, and it would be foolish for anyone approaching Cuba from the north to assume they might pass undetected&#8230; Now, what an observer will do with such information is an entirely different matter, and I obviously based on my personal experience, they simply either declined to pass the fact I had visited Cuba on to the appropriate agency, or the State Department declined to act upon it&#8230;


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

JonEisberg said:


> I think it's extremely naïve for anyone visiting Cuba by yacht to assume they can avoid detection by heading to Puerto Vita through the Jumentos, for instance&#8230; The only realistic assumption to make is that _someone_ working for Uncle Sam will know you've visited Cuba&#8230; the waters surrounding eastern Cuba and the Windward Passage are very closely watched, that's the area any traffic from Jamaica or Haiti will be transiting, after all&#8230;
> 
> Years ago I heard an eye-opening story from a guy who worked drug interdiction for the Coast Guard, was the radar operator on an AWACS type aircraft&#8230; One night they were tracking a go-fast boat approaching the Caymans, but it was a squally night with heavy thunderstorms, and the guy lost contact&#8230; After a minute or so, he notified his pilot on the intercom that he had momentarily lost the guy, and was unable to re-acquire him&#8230;
> 
> ...


I got to believe the eyes in the sky are looking right into Castro's windows. And if that's happening then they know exactly who is coming and going. 
So that's why I was wanting to know about charitable organizations that might hitch a ride From Key West if I went.
Humanitarian aide is the best way in I think.


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## CapPolux (Apr 24, 2011)

*Cuba, no problem*

We were in La Habana in Dic 2010, Marina Hemingway.
Our boat sail with EEUU flag, from Dry Tortuga directly to La Habana.
Of course we must do all the things with our passports and boat papers but nothing append. If you don have Visa you can have one in the marina when you arrive, US$ 14. each and you can stay with the boat there during two years.
You must have a new visa each 60 days.
The problem with Cuba, is the spears or something you need for the boat.
You cant find nothing. The cuban people are very kidness and they need help specially the kids, chocolates and pencils are welcome.
Don worry if you need to go to Cuba, do it.
Cayo Largo is a nice marina, I can recomended.
The tarifs are cheaper than USA.


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## dacap06 (Feb 2, 2008)

Going to Cuba? Don't do it if you are a U.S. Citizen! Until relations are normalized and we have exchanged ambassadors, it will only end in tears.


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## CapPolux (Apr 24, 2011)

mdbee said:


> As long as you aren't a US citizen.


We sailed on Dic 2010 from Dry Tortuga to Marina Hemingway-La Habana. our boat is a Jeanneau 38 Sunshine, with EEUU flag. Registered in 
New Gulf Harbor Tampa.
We pay US$ 15 for a visa in the Marina Hemimgway when we 
arrived, and another few US$ dolars for Inmigration and Health insurance.
The rates are cheaper and the boat can be there for two years, the crew only have only 60 days. The marina is old and you cant find anything there, no spares, only fuel.
When we asks about the problems with USA, they said " We dont have a
problem with USA, or the cityzents, USA has a problem with us..."
If you need to sail to Grand Cayman or Jamaica, Cayo Largo is the best place to stop, call my cuban friend " Pires" there, is a good man and very friendly. Pires is the commodore there.
They need Euros or US% dolars, dont worry, go and enjoy Cuba.
Cap Polux


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

I personnaly believe it is irresponsible for anyone to suggest that a US citizen should go to Cuba without proper authorization. Oh, you might get away with it but the consequences if you get caught are too dire. If US citizens really want to go to Cuba then do it right. Work on the government to lift travel restrictions.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

ebs001..... +1. I've said my peace above.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

seanolsen said:


> dont listen to all the sheeple go if you wish. probly best to go from somewhere else than key west or tortugas though. as big brother is watching that area


You go first, tough guy. let us know how it turns out.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

CapPolux said:


> When we asks about the problems with USA, they said " We dont have a problem with USA...


I think you're missing the point. Cuba is happy to have Americans come visit. It is the U.S. Dept. of State that has a problem with it. If a U.S. citizen is caught spending money in Cuba, and the government decides to prosecute, the fines are steep and the jail time is long.

Is it really worth the risk? Personally, I don't think so. Especially because the dialogue has been opened and--even though it didn't fly this time around--I think it is only a matter of time before we will be allowed to go without any meaningful restrictions. My guess is two presidential election cycles at most.

I can wait that long in order to avoid even the least little risk of a $250,000 fine and 10 years in federal prison.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

This isn't sailing related, but it is about Cuba and water - underwater...

I was in Cuba in March and got to do some diving.

The diving isn't the best that I've ever done (Pacific Northwest holds that distinction), but I did get up close and personal with some bull sharks.

All of the stills and most of the video is mine. Some of the underwater video was shot and edited by Yordanis Mendez 5 (the videographer from the dive shop).

I hope you enjoy.


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## herezjohnny (Apr 29, 2011)

flyingwelshman said:


> This isn't sailing related, but it is about Cuba and water - underwater...
> 
> I was in Cuba in March and got to do some diving.
> 
> ...


I got PADI certified in Cuba, and it was the most beautiful diving I have ever done. But then I have never been to the Pacific. Nice video by the way.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

herezjohnny said:


> I got PADI certified in Cuba, and it was the most beautiful diving I have ever done. But then I have never been to the Pacific. Nice video by the way.


Thanks for the props on the video.

For Caribbean diving, try Bonaire/Curacao or the Bay Islands of Honduras (Roatan, Utila).

The reefs are more bountiful on the North sided of Cuba, but they are still pretty worn out by the standards of other Islands (Cayman, etc.). The south side of Cuba was great for big animals as it gets pretty deep (a few thousand feet), but pretty sparse close to shore. 'course that was 20 years ago.

I heard that the diving around the Southwest area (by the Bay of Pigs) is pretty nice.


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## herezjohnny (Apr 29, 2011)

flyingwelshman said:


> Thanks for the props on the video.
> 
> For Caribbean diving, try Bonaire/Curacao or the Bay Islands of Honduras (Roatan, Utila).
> 
> ...


If you`re into spear fishing its awesome here in Louisiana.


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## xymotic (Mar 4, 2005)

Has anyone suggested just going _LEGALLY_?????

It's legal for a journalist to go to cuba. So pick a story, go to Cuba and write or photograph it. Just do it legally and through the state department up front, with official permission.

I think maybe ppl are over-thinking the problem. It really is like a seatbelt law, just wear the damned belt.


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

Good news ! Tampa International Airport now has flights coming and going to Cuba. There has to be an easing of the travel rules to Cuba then. At least I would think so.


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

w1651 said:


> Good news ! Tampa International Airport now has flights coming and going to Cuba. There has to be an easing of the travel rules to Cuba then. At least I would think so.


Interesting. Do you know how frequently and on what model plane?

BTW: Most folks don't realize that there are several fllights a day to Havana out of Miami -- and have been for years. Almost always full, too...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

There was some easing earlier this year, but it is still contained to specific purposes that must be approved.


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

Here is the link if it works 
If not just google flights to Cuba Tampa Bay Florida

Tampa Bay, Florida news | St. Pete Times & tbt..


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## outdooress (Jun 4, 2008)

Have anyone ever sailed within Cuba as a charter destination -- meaning flew into Cuba and chartered a vessel there? Or have any knowledge of reliable charter companies on the south coast? Also, any recommendations on an english cruising guide?

thanks.

PS
Enjoyed the dive video BTW


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## champlain94 (Jan 30, 2012)

Putt a $20 in your passport and they won't stamp it. Been done by my
Friend many many times


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## champlain94 (Jan 30, 2012)

Keep voting conservative holy rolling republicans into office and this will not change along with many other outdated laws.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

champlain94 said:


> Keep voting conservative holy rolling republicans into office and this will not change along with many other outdated laws.


What a dope. It was a Democrat that got this Cuba problem going and no Democrat that followed has done anything about it any more than any Republican.

And, you don't need to bribe the customs agent not to get a passport stamp. They ask.

Stop the political propaganda.


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## champlain94 (Jan 30, 2012)

You don't know what your talking about so bury yourself back into the fox news channel


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

champlain94 said:


> You don't know what your talking about so bury yourself back into the fox news channel


I see you are new here. Welcome aboard and, hopefully, you will have some sailing content to contribute.

If you click above to find a listing of the sub forums, you will find one for politics, where you can rant away wit your political point of view.

You have no idea what news I watch and the quick trigger on Fox says it all about you. Take your propaganda to the Off Topic/politics section and you will find plenty of comrades to make you feel better and targets that are willing to engage in the battle with you.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

champlain94 said:


> You don't know what your talking about so bury yourself back into the fox news channel


If you (or your "friend") think they need to slip a $20 inside your passport to avoid having it stamped, well... then you don't know what you're talking about...


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## foxglove (Dec 27, 2002)

Jon, what is the real story here? You've sailed there. I hear more and more people talking about easing of state dept enforcement. My wife and i would love to go but we don't want trouble.


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## champlain94 (Jan 30, 2012)

I apologize. This wasn't the place to run off about my political views. I like yourself feel strongly about my beliefs.


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## mdi (Jan 15, 2009)

Frankly I think the doors are about to be opened. More and more American companies are setting up business structure to operate within Cuban markets, the tide is moving quickly.


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## floridajaxsailor (Aug 4, 2010)

*hola*

Interesting thread. Cutting to the chase, when the US government boards your boat on the way back to US waters, what do they look for?? If all you've done is buy a fish sandwich in Havannah are they going to disect your stool with an onboard microscope? Further, how can you be blamed or proven you were there?(see note below)~ as when you pass thru a yellow light these days driving an automobile they show a video taken by a traffic signal camera @ the DMV at the request or dismay of the driver, surely the preforementioned government blimps are not equipped with high resolution cameras...

NOTE: Having rethought this a bit, I assume some posters mean that after you enter Hemmingway Marina area, & meet with local customs, THEY STAMP? your US passport, thus that is what US officials will render as evidence of your elusive travels... 
And I assume landing on the island without passing thru that harbour is foolish?

I have Cuban fishing friends here- they are a wonderful people- thank you to the poster for those amazing photographs

I do highly respected thoughts about getting your boat seized-- that is a potential risk and definitely worth considering!

Lastly, whoever said spending a little pocket change on trinkets is supporting a dictator... that's absolutely ridiculous, the money goes toward poor people eating or sipping a cold relaxing beer, furthermore there is strong argument to say that the more exposure to happy free Westerners, is more of a motivator for them internally to push to unchain, yet I digress...

I vote: go for it, but much of life's risks are about personal choice
Many science minds say you'd be crazy living in California along earthquake fault lines 
Godspeed
-JD


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

A good friend (US citizen) just returned from Cuba on a University tour, properly licensed. 

They had to complete a form that indicated their location in each hourly time slot for every single day, 24/7. Their bus had a gps that tracked every movement. 

Romanticize all you want. The country is a police state.


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## floridajaxsailor (Aug 4, 2010)

I am sure under a government program you're going to be monitored that's part of the ironic aspect of entering legally thru the paperwork channels
I don't feel dramatic statements like police state are productive~ I think it's a wonderful country the pictures spoke volumes and I will certainly go in 2012, my personal choice
though all of the above comments regarding caution are sound

years ago someone once warned me not to go into any of the all black bars in Savannah~ now those musician friends welcome me like treasured family- thus I will be taking my guitars to Havannah
Cheers
-JD


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

floridajaxsailor said:


> I am sure under a government program you're going to be monitored that's part of the ironic aspect of entering legally thru the paperwork channels
> I don't feel dramatic statements like police state are productive~ I think it's a wonderful country the pictures spoke volumes and I will certainly go in 2012, my personal choice
> though all of the above comments regarding caution are sound
> 
> ...


How will you get in? Are you bringing some kind of aid or are you using another countries visa?


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

I've lived there (and in other "tightly controlled" countries as well), and Cuba is comparatively a pretty benign environment as long as you mind your own business and decline from getting into political discussions. Don't draw undue attention to yourself, and ignore your impulse to go off exploring away from approved areas.

Getting into/out of Cuba for an American is not hard; plenty of folks do it in contravention of the travel restrictions (and no, I'm not going to post a how-to guide.) The Cuban government is happy to accept their contributions to the Cuban economy. What travelers need to carefully consider is what the repercussions may befall them upon their return to the States should their transgressions be discovered. It ultimately comes down to individual assessment of risk/reward. If you take your vessel to Cuba, you could very well wind up losing it -- that risk is too high for me, but you may feel differently.

As far as chartering a boat there -- I am unaware of any charter service for sailboats. Fishing charters (captained, of course) are available, as are sightseeing and dive charters. I think it safe to say that there is no bareboat market at this time.


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## ebs001 (May 8, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> A good friend (US citizen) just returned from Cuba on a University tour, properly licensed.
> 
> They had to complete a form that indicated their location in each hourly time slot for every single day, 24/7. Their bus had a gps that tracked every movement.
> 
> Romanticize all you want. The country is a police state.


Here's a quote I found in Wiki: On June 27, 2002 U.S. Congressman Ron Paul said in the House of Representatives:

"...'Is America a Police State?' My answer is: 'Maybe not yet, but it is fast approaching.'"[20]

FLORIDAJAXSAILOR will probably feel like he's still in the USA.

I think that the only course of action for USians, who wish for free travel to Cuba, is to push for the lifting of the embargo. Until then obey the law.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

floridajaxsailor said:


> I am sure under a government program you're going to be monitored that's part of the ironic aspect of entering legally thru the paperwork channels
> I don't feel dramatic statements like police state are productive~ I think it's a wonderful country the pictures spoke volumes and I will certainly go in 2012, my personal choice
> though all of the above comments regarding caution are sound
> 
> ...


I know people that have gone and come too. Like you (assuming you spent a lot of time in Miami), I have heard all kinds of stories. However, I will tell you that in the Keys, there are a lot of these little black boats (with 4-350hp outboards) that cruise the outter coast and marinas just waitin to board you. They also have a LOT of black helicopters constantly in the sky. They are called US Customs. The local word there is that the US tracks boats coming out of Cuba to board them. The theory may be to search for drugs or whatever, but Ii simply did not and would not find it worth the risk.

I will stay out of the political debate of it as many here know how I feel. But as has been mentioned many times, you have been warned. Chances are you will be fine. But... is it worth it? Only you can decide that.

Brian


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## ottos (Aug 12, 2008)

Welcome back, CD. We've missed your wise counsel.


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## Domknotty (Jun 1, 2011)

scratching cuba off my list


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## creedence623 (Mar 8, 2006)

I'm going to weigh in and offer some direct insight on the monitoring aspect as someone who does this for a living. I'll provide a little open-source intel on some of the current Intelligence Surveillance Reconnaissance (ISR) programs in the area for you. I can tell you the area is actively monitored. Whether they choose to take an interest in you depends on a number of factors. Without discussing capabilities I can tell you these aren't just dudes looking out the doors of their aircraft with binoculars; these things have a wide range of airborne sensors onboard that can precisely detect, identify, locate, and report on virtually anything in the region. The bottom line is there is no 'sneaking' to/or back from Cuba.

The government spends several hundred million dollars a month on securing that portion of our border, and while it seems harsh and unwarranted from a cruiser's perspective; I can tell you that the primary interest is not the cruising community, sailors are typically just collateral damage in a much larger picture of international security. While stopping John and Jane Doe aboard the S/V Crappynauticalcliche is not really the goal, by traveling to or from Cuba, you are interjecting yourself into a game with players you'd rather just not be associated with- on both sides.

Lexington Institute

_"The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) operates the largest non-military fleet of airborne ISR platforms in the world. The U.S. Coast Guard operates a fleet of C-130H/J long-range surveillance aircraft and is in the process of acquiring new HC-144A maritime patrol aircraft. The Office of Air and Marine (OAM), a branch of DHS's Customs and Border Patrol, has some 290 aircraft and helicopters including refurbished P-3 maritime surveillance aircraft and new King Air 350s with sophisticated ISR suites. OAM currently operates six Predator Bs. One of these has been converted into a maritime surveillance platform in a joint effort with the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard plans to acquire a number of vertical take-off UASs for use on its new National Security Cutter. It is currently experimenting with both the Scan Eagle and Fire Scout UASs."_

I'm not taking a side in the political discussion and I'm certainly not saying don't go; but if I were hell-bent on going to Cuba, I would make sure to do it in one of the few *legal *ways available. If the legal avenues don't apply to me (student, journo, etc), I'd have to content myself by sailing somewhere else. Until it's opened for travel, there's nothing on that rock worth losing my boat over.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Lots of entertaining replies here. Lots of people who don't know what they're talking about, and a few, such as Jon, who are quite knowledgeable.
Someone referenced the SAIL magazine article - that was me. I also did the Cruising Cuba seminars at the recent Cruisiers U in Annapolis.
There are legal ways to go to Cuba - a general license is one of them, for charitable and other reasons. Whoever said go and write an article is clueless - you have to be an accredited journo to get that permission.
If you want to do a philanthropic trip, that's do-able. One American gal I know brought over about 20 bicycles on her ketch for use in the St. Patrick's day parade in Havana (don't ask, it's a loooong story), then donated them to a local church. She had permission to go.
Alternatively, as someone noted, going through the Bahamas, then returning either far to the north, or continuing on through the Caribbean, also works. Is it legal? No. Will you get caught? Highly unlikely. Should you do it? Your choice, I'm not advising you that way.
Some specific remarks - Cuba does NOT stamp your passport. Being Canadian, I had to ask them to stamp mine, which they did.
Canadians don't require the health insurance because of our government health insurance. Everyone else that I'm aware of does. It's between $2 and $3 a day.
Bring American funds - they'll be exchanged for tourist pesos at a 13% discount. Buy some local pesos for the farmers' markets and other non-tourist places.
It is VERY rare to have the bite put on you by Cuban gov't officials, although it is starting to happen in Hemingway. If I find out you paid a bribe there, I'll personally ream your butt with a rusty wire brush - it makes it tough on the rest of us. If you refuse to pay, the issue goes away without rancor. The officials know better, but they see friends working in the tourist business getting rich from tips, and they want their piece of that action.
For charts, contact Bluewater Charts out of Lauderdale - they will either provide you with copies of the official Cuban chartbooks, or the new NV chart series. Make sure you have Calder's guide, it's indispensable.
Someone at my last seminar asked 'why go to Cuba rather than elsewhere in the Caribbean, given there's so much hassle?' A good question - and the answer is because there is NO place like Cuba. It's simply wonderful, even with all it's faults and rough spots. Superb cruising, wonderful people, beautiful scenery.
Anyone with specific questions is welcome to pm or email me directly.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

canucksailorguy said:


> ....There are legal ways to go to Cuba - a general license is one of them, for charitable and other reasons....





> Alternatively, as someone noted, going through the Bahamas, then returning either far to the north, or continuing on through the Caribbean, also works. Is it legal? No. Will you get caught? Highly unlikely.......


So, please quote your experience with getting any number of US citizens a general license.

Each time you weigh on this, you seem to ultimately tease illegal activity. The last time you engaged in this subject, you seemed to try to say it was legal to accompany a Canadian citizen, as long as they paid for everything (even if they didn't) as I recall.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Minnewaska, you have a decidedly political take on this issue - something more evident this time around from what I've seen of your comments on this issue in this thread. Cuba, for me, is not a political issue, which is not to say that I don't have an opinion regarding that aspect of cruising Cuba.
My understanding of your laws is that it is legal for an American to go to Cuba provided they do not spend money. Going as the guest of a Canadian or other non-American satisfies that requirement. 
The difficulty would lie in proving to your authorities you didn't spend money. I've not experienced that with anyone I know, nor do I expect to, but I would be most interested in hearing from someone who has, and learning what came of it. Thus far, no one has come forward with that story.
As for my experience in getting someone a general license - that's not something I can, or need to, do. That's between the American concerned and your government. I couldn't possibly have any influence on the outcome - so your comment is entirely pointless and is, in fact, provocative.
If you want to pick a fight, find someone else please. 
As for illegal activity, I see American boats from 27 footers to megayachts in Hemingway and Veradero every time I go. I have photos, which I won't reproduce so as not to cause difficulties, but as was noted in this thread, someone from the American Interests section out of the Swiss embassy walks the docks at Hemingway regularly and knows full well what's going on. The fact is, with very few exceptions, they simply don't care. If they did, you'd hear about a lot more seizures and prosecutions. Tell me, are you able to name even one boat seized by the US for traveling to Cuba? I thought not, because I just searched and couldn't find one.
Americans are going, illegally, to Cuba all the time. The last figure I heard quoted that I trust was 40,000 annually, going through a third country. Some estimates are over 100,000 per year.
Here, from the State Department, is a short summary of the situation as it concerns mariners:


> Cuban territorial waters are extremely dangerous and difficult to navigate, even for experienced mariners. The potential for running aground is very high and the bottom type is unforgiving. Search and rescue capability in Cuba is limited and running aground will often lead to the complete destruction and loss of the vessel. U.S. boaters who enter Cuban waters (legitimately or illegitimately) have encountered problems that required repairs and/or salvage; costs for both are significantly higher than comparable services in the United States or elsewhere in the Caribbean. In addition, the Government of Cuba does not allow the use of the U.S. dollar for transactions and U.S. credit cards are not accepted in Cuba. Cuban authorities typically hold boats as collateral payment. U.S.-registered/flagged vessels belonging to U.S. citizens have been permanently seized by Cuban authorities. Due to the lack of resources, the quality of repairs in Cuba is inconsistent. Repairs take significantly longer in Cuba than they would in the United States due to lack of the most basic materials and to bureaucratic impediments. Boaters are often confined to their boats while repairs are made. Boaters can be detained while Cuban authorities investigate the circumstances of their entry to Cuba, especially if their travel documents are not in order or they are suspected of illegal activities. Mariners and their passengers should not navigate close to Cuban territorial waters without possessing a valid passport, unless seeking a safe port due to emergencies. The ability of the U.S. Interests Section to assist mariners in distress is extremely limited due to current limitations on travel by U.S. personnel outside of Havana. Notifying the U.S. Interests Section, regardless of legitimately or illegitimately entering Cuban territorial seas is the most reliable way to obtain assistance.
> 
> The transfer of funds from the United States to Cuba to pay for boat repair and salvage is subject to restrictions codified in U.S. law relating to commercial transactions with the Government of Cuba. A Department of the Treasury license is required for such payments and applicants should be prepared to provide documentary evidence demonstrating the emergency nature of the repairs. U.S. credit or debit cards, personal checks, and travelers' checks cannot be used in Cuba so boaters should be prepared to pay for all transactions in cash. It is difficult to transfer money to Cuba and travelers have frequently been required to spend several hundred dollars for transportation to Havana to receive transferred funds.


The above information came from http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1097.html. That page also includes the various general license categories with which one can travel legally to Cuba.
Most of what is there is accurate - a bit of it isn't quite how it really works, but that's to be expected. For example, navigating Cuban waters isn't nearly as tough as they make it sound.
If you really want to go, legally, get together with your church and set something up that benefits the Cuban people with your church as the sponsor. Arrange it around your boat if you want to sail there. Or take one of the people to people tours Obama authorized a few months ago.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Some further remarks in response to earlier comments in this thread -


> When you travel to and spend money in Cuba, you are helping fund a government that has attempted to install missiles aimed at your family. By all indications, if we hadn't muscled them out, they would do it again.


Uh....I believe that was about, oh, 50 years ago and they needed the USSR, which no longer exists, to do this. Isn't it time to give up the past?


> Oh, and to your question about seeing the interior of the island -- could you do it? Maybe. You'd probably need to get Cuban government permission to do so, and would be under close supervision and "minded" very carefully. What could happen if you just went on your own without Cuban government permission? Detention, expulsion, and probable loss of your vessel to the Cuban government. Again, a fairly high risk endeavor.


Yes, you can tour the island. You rent a car, or take your bike on a bus, staying at casa particularas - sort of like our bed and breakfasts. There is no problem, there is NO supervision of any sort. There is no detention, expulsion or loss of your vessel to the Cubans for traveling through the interior. Risk level is zero. Zero. Let me repeat that - zero.
That post is a prime example of someone who has NO idea what he's talking about, has never been there, but has to sound off and waste our time in reading his remarks - all while contributing to the furtherance of myths and hyperbole that makes up the discussions of many Americans about Cuba.
Rule #1 - if you don't know what you're talking about - try listening to those who do.


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## JordanH (Dec 13, 2008)

canucksailorguy said:


> Some specific remarks - Cuba does NOT stamp your passport. Being Canadian, I had to ask them to stamp mine, which they did.


That is the opposite of my experience visiting Cuba. The default was to stamp my passport but gave me the option to decline.



canucksailorguy said:


> It is VERY rare to have the bite put on you by Cuban gov't officials, although it is starting to happen in Hemingway.


This is also the opposite of my experience, albeit I've never been to Hemmingway, nor entered by boat.
The 'scam' at Cayo Coco was that they held a few suit cases in the back of the airport until the majority of our plane passengers departed. Those suit cases 'accidentally' held back were given an extra slow examination with us at a table. The customs officer asked us what each item in the suitcase was and when he found some Ferrero Roche chocolates, my wife offered him one. He took the whole box, folded up her suitcase and let us go while the other passengers took a LOT longer to be processed. My wife had sincerely just offered him one chocolate as a polite (naive?) Canadian and was shocked that he understood it as a bribe for the whole box... I laughed out loud as I looked on from a distance.

On the whole, I wouldn't expect that is the normal, but I don't think I would call it rare. We found that tips/gifts/bribes/currency were the norm in dealing with anyone in the tourist line of fire.

I'm sure our experiences vary so one broad statement won't cover everyone.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Jordan, that's interesting you experienced those things. That's the first time I've heard of this. From the mariner's side of things, it's very rare. I've had one 'hint' which was easily ignored and not pushed, and one outright request, which I've mentioned - that was in Hemingway. My experience parallels that of other boaters.
As for the passport thing, I suspect it's because you, as a Canadian tourist, are clearly not going to or through the US and the stamp isn't an issue. Again, for mariners, the issue is that the boat may be going on to the States, where the stamp would create a problem. It's interesting to see these differences in procedure, since I've not gone to Cuba other than by boat.
Did they give you a tarjeta, a small card, when you arrived?


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

Canuck -- That was my response you qouted, and then you went out on a limb and said:



canucksailorguy said:


> .
> That post is a prime example of someone who has NO idea what he's talking about, has never been there, but has to sound off and waste our time in reading his remarks - all while contributing to the furtherance of myths and hyperbole that makes up the discussions of many Americans about Cuba.
> Rule #1 - if you don't know what you're talking about - try listening to those who do.


In response I'll simply say that you are in fact wrong. I lived in Havana whether you care to believe it or not. Makes no difference to me. I also accept that you don't agree with me, and that's OK.

What does make a difference to me is that you have accused me of being a liar. That pisses me off.

Let's take a more critical look; you may want to get a mirror out for this next part.

My experiences as an American undoubtedly differed from yours as a Canadian. Since I was living there under diplomatic auspices, I am certain that I was subjected to closer scrutiny and attention than your average US Joe sneaking in in contravention of the US restrictions. We were restricted to the greater Havana area, and requests to go beyond that area were routinely denied. I can admit that my opinions may have been swayed by this constrained state and not fit every situation.

Having said that, you also cannot claim to know what it's like to be an American there. You admittedly have only arrived by boat, so you know nothing of the things that happen at customs and immigration checkpoints at the airports.

My assessment of the possible risks to Americans, arriving by boat and then exploring the hinterland, is based on admittedly a worst case situation (hence the term "possible.") It is, however, based on the outcome of a real event that happened when I was there and others before/since my time.

And as long as we're picking nits, I'll correct one of your earlier comments. Anyone trying to contact the US Interests Section at the Swiss Embassy is going to be disappointed -- it isn't there. This is a commonly held misconception that -- gasp -- "contributes to the furtherance of myths," which you seem to find objectionable.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Yes, your experiences would be vastly different given your circumstances in Havana, and most decidedly, you would have been under greater scrutiny - but why would you not be aware of how the rest of us non diplomatic folk are treated, i.e. as in being permitted to roam the country. What would lead you to presume that non-diplomatic types would be treated the same? 
I didn't mean to infer that you were lying and I apologize for that - but I've seen so many nonsense responses on this topic, it's fairly easy to get my favourite exercise of jumping to conclusions by stating that someone has no idea what they're talking about. Porfin, had you made it clear you'd lived in Havana under diplomatic auspices, that would have led to an entirely different response because the facts would be subject to a different interpretation.
The story you mention - in your second last para - it would be interesting to hear the details of it. Also - I have not heard of, or been able to find on the internet - any tales of Americans losing their boats or experiencing serious problems with Cuba - Alan Gross being excepted for obvious reasons. I think there's one guy who seriously grounded his boat and lost it some years ago, but I've not been able to find details and I'm not even sure he was American. I've heard worse tales about Mexican marinas.
Finally, for the benefit of all - where IS the US Interests Section in Havana? I've never been, but the understanding of all is that it was in the Swiss embassy. Since you have greater knowledge of this aspect of the discussion, it would be beneficial to the discussion to have you weigh in on them.
As for what it's like to be an American there - other than those in circumstances such as yours, my understanding is that they are treated no differently than any other foreigner - other than perhaps a bit more friendly curiosity from the locals they meet.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Where in the world do you get politics in my stance? Illegal is illegal. You continue to provoke US citizens to break the law, because so many already do and get away with it, even if you don't directly suggest it. Exactly how many of our laws should that logic apply to? " Don't steal that, but many people do, so if you want to steal it, you'll probably get away with it..............."

If you interpreted my comments on the genesis of the embargo to be political, you've misread me. We've had some of the most conservative and liberal Presidents since the embargo began and no one has rolled it fully back. Logically, not politically, there is more to it than meets the eye.


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

My opinions about how non-diplomatic folks are treated are based on discussions I had with them at various gatherings (primarily informal "happy hours" at the Canadian embassy and parties at the Marine House.)

The US mission (USINT) is located at the intersection of the Malecon, calle L and Calzada (immediately west of the Marti statue, and a few hundred meters west of the Hotel Nacional.) It's pretty hard to miss. Although it's a pretty ugly building (austere and utilitarian,) it ain't nearly as ugly as the Russian Embassy.

The case I cited was of a US guy trying to live out Buffett's "Havana Daydreaming," leaving an ex-wife and unpaid child support in the States. I related it in another thread. Long story short, he wound up getting deported and was forced to leave his boat behind. We did what we could to keep it from sinking at the dock, but when I left for good some three months later it was still there. 

Don't get me wrong, in my heart of hearts I don't think the Cuban government has any interest in or desire to start confiscating pleasure boats. They really have little use for them, and as we all know boats are a resource draining asset. It's not like they are going to start selling them to the locals, right?


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Minnewaska, when you reference 50 year old political events as a reason to avoid traveling to Cuba, it's really really hard not to make certain assumptions about what you're thinking...also, I do believe I've noted in several posts that I am not suggesting Americans go, but if they choose to, then here are some ways to do so. Some legal, some not so...I'm not being a moralist here, just pragmatic.
fwiw, my opinion on the embargo is that it is a failure, and should be dropped. Dispensing with any argument as to why it has been a failure in the past:
the current situation is that Cuba has lots of tourists from every other nation. vis a vis tourism, the embargo is pointless.
Insofar as not permitting US trade with Cuba, again, they can buy whatever they want from any other country in the world. The embargo is again pointless. Cuba's major problem is they don't have the money to buy goods, or medicines, or whatever, from the US. They're pretty much broke.
That being said, Cuba currently buys most of its food from America. So the embargo is nuanced. 
It's a handy human rights tool for those who wish to rail about Cuba's human rights' issues - but when the US maintains diplomatic relations with China, it's a tad hypocritical wouldn't you say?
Should anyone break the law? No, I think not, although I'll accept that there are times when that indeed should happen. But if they're going to go to Cuba regardless of the embargo, or want to understand the parameters involved in the decision, I can certainly provide information in those areas.


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## floridajaxsailor (Aug 4, 2010)

*hola amigos- logicos y locos tambien*

Hola, I've been off the site for while it's good to see you folks back & actively chatting- I love the overall vibe of people wanting to go~I have more news to report of other sailors whom have gone recently & it is all positive! let me start there

Also, start by saying that I now live in a marina along the south west coast of Florida: I won't mention which out of fear(LOL) of those black helicopters in the sky(mentioned above). Though Miles & Bach are my musical flavours these days- I believe O Osborn wrote a song titled Paranoid, further Bruce Springsteen recently sang "Fear is a powerful thing"

I find it absolutely ridiculous & offensive that creed which Creedence waved forth regarding the amount of money that is spent on surveillance... can you only imagine if that money was used for our school systems~ I digress, as Chinese & Korean students zoom past us yet again in science/academics...

I will also mentioned the face of a beautiful, maternal gentle, woman who stepped off a catamaran beside me LAST WEEK with her two university age daughters~ who'd just come back from Jamaica AND Cuba aglow with a treasure of memories brimming from their blue eyes eagar to spill & share with their classmates, many of whom spent the summer glued to US television video games

alas, the journey winds onward


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## urbanhermit (Nov 15, 2010)

The airport in Cuba was selling Coca-cola and Malboros when i was there a few years ago.


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

urbanhermit said:


> The airport in Cuba was selling Coca-cola and Malboros when i was there a few years ago.


I was watching a special on Cuba a few years ago and every one had a frigidaire or kenmore refridgerator. Family members here in the states sent them by way of Mexico. So embargo my A$$!
We're the only ones obeying it and why? Let the people see what they are missining and how much better life could be with american money and they'll throw the Bum out.


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Many products are manufactured under license - Coke is likely one of these, and the license would come from, say, Mexico or Canada, thereby not violating the embargo.
As for the appliances, Cuban Americans are permitted to send money or bring goods directly into Cuba without any problems, so many CAs help their families back home this way. For this sort of thing, there is no need to use a third country.
At the resorts, you can watch almost any tv station you wish, and many Cubans get their world news in this way - but outside of the resorts, choice is restricted, so Cubans don't get CNN for example, only the communist government's channels.
It's a very complex, very confusing at times, society. It's also fascinating, which is why I'm going back this winter.


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## floridajaxsailor (Aug 4, 2010)

*Bbc*

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-19958577


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## wannabsailor (Jul 9, 2012)

A little confused. A few months back I asked if it was Ok to sail to Cuba. Before the moderators moved the thread elsewhere I received several comments that Americans were not allowed to go to Cuba with very few exceptions. After doing more research it almost seems that it’s not that it’s Illegal to go to Cuba, it’s just illegal to spend any money. How do you get around this? Or do you?


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Americans can go to Cuba under certain circumstances. Formerly, you would have to have a general license. Those were and are available to journalists, religious missions, cultural, sports - a few other categories. More recently, having significant Cuban family there would entitle you, as would being from Cuba.
Last spring, the current administration approved 'people to people' tours, run by properly licensed tour operators. These have just gone through a bit of a shakeup, with license renewals being held up as Rubio, in Florida, caused a stink about how the tours were being conducted. That's another thread and not relevant here.
The confusion is that the rules state (outside of the above exemptions) that Americans can go to Cuba - but they cannot spend money there. Since to enter the country involves paying various duties and buying health insurance, it automatically becomes illegal. One way around this is for the Cuban government to waive these fees, as they were going to do for the Sarasota-Havana race, or for a third party - Cuban or non-American - to pay all your costs for you.
So if you were sponsored by a Canadian like myself, you could go there. It would involve convincing OFAC (Office of Foreign Asset Controls) that that was indeed the case. And yes, paying your sponsor back IS a violation.
If you want to keep up with this, you can see my Cuba website, the link is in my signature, or join the Facebook page, http://facebook.com/cubaforbiddenparadise.


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## urbanhermit (Nov 15, 2010)

cool website Nucks


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Glad you like it - if you join the Facebook page, it'll keep you up to date on changes - and if you 'like' the FB page, I'll send you, for FREE!, a screensaver showcasing Cuban cars, with a fabulous all girl Cuban band playing in the background.


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## floridajaxsailor (Aug 4, 2010)

*hola*

Good amigo
Canuck~ I'd love to see that photo of the Cuban band (male or female)- Latin music supercedes @ the end, or beginning of the day 

ps- to the folks pontificating legal verses illegal- has anyone ever driven over 65 on the highway?


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Hola Ajax sailor - pm me with your operating system and I'll send you a link for the download - it's a screensaver featuring all sorts of neat old cars in Havana, with Cuban music in the background. I made the screensaver myself, so it's safe to use.


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## wannabsailor (Jul 9, 2012)

So if canucksailorguy paid for everything I could go to Cuba and be quite legal, and if I happened to give him say... 1,000.00 worth of T-Bones when we got back as a thank you gift, that would be legal as well?


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## canucksailorguy (Mar 2, 2006)

Nope. But I'll take the t-bones anyway
Thing is, who's gonna prove you repaid your sponsor? It's up to OFAC to prove it wasn't an honest sponsorship, not you to prove it was.


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