# Anchor Wars



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

This video shows how Mantus Compares to the Rocna, Manson Supreme, Spade on short scope....






Multipurpose Boat Anchor | MantusAnchors


----------



## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

In the video, chain rode is not being used, why? Does Mantus suggest not to use any chain? I looked on your website but couldn't find any information regarding the suggested set up for the rode, swivels, etc? 

Also, why demonstrate with such a short scope, 2:1? Who realistically would set a anchor using 2:1 scope? Are you kidding? On the contrary, the videos on your website show a unreasonable long scope since the anchors demonstrated are attached to a hitch on a Jeep. The angle of the rode appears to be less than 10 degrees, maybe 20:1? LOL if that?

I'm not trying to imply the Mantus isn't a good anchor, in fact I may purchase one, but I think your video demonstrations are flawed and not showing realistic conditions or results.


----------



## Bradhamlet (Nov 8, 2002)

Really, he holds their anchor rode at his waist and pulls, the others get to be held next to his chin. Ya I think this is what may be called biased? Like the Chef said it might be a great anchor but this informal test did little to convince me.

Brad 
Lancer 36


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

I thought I would get that  It does not matter how you hold them this 4:1 scope


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Bradhamlet said:


> Really, he holds their anchor rode at his waist and pulls, the others get to be held next to his chin. Ya I think this is what may be called biased? Like the Chef said it might be a great anchor but this informal test did little to convince me.
> 
> Brad
> Lancer 36


Besides what formal test do you know, that tests setting in hard to penetrate bottom....
Have you ever seen at test where an anchor from a big Manufacturer completely failed? Tests don't get set up that way..
The closest you could come to a real test is Main Sail.... And the combined knowledge of the sailing community.... 
In an emergency you need gear that you can rely on, it needs to work all the time and every time.... and immediately


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Bradhamlet said:


> Really, he holds their anchor rode at his waist and pulls, the others get to be held next to his chin. Ya I think this is what may be called biased? Like the Chef said it might be a great anchor but this informal test did little to convince me.
> 
> Brad
> Lancer 36


and lastly the only reason my hands go lower is bc the anchor sets and I cant hold them hi any longer, you should try it and you will know what I mean...
"It is what it is"


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

We saw this practical sailor test, and mirrored it..:

http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/Anchor Tests/Practical Sailor Large Anchor Tests.pdf

We test in the extremes, because it exaggerates the differences. We challenged the anchor to the fullest 2:1 Scope and the bottom where competition does not set in even at 4:1 Scope and it still sets....


----------



## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Just a party trick demonstrating that the fluke angle of their anchor is a few degrees greater, which doesn't actually correlate to better overall. I believe it is very likely an exceptional anchor, but the pitch is an embarrassment to Manta.


----------



## Freerider (May 1, 2008)

pdqaltair said:


> Just a party trick demonstrating that the fluke angle of their anchor is a few degrees greater, which doesn't actually correlate to better overall.


My thoughts exactly.

Although i do plan on getting a big one as a storm anchor, I love how it can be stored disassembled.


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

I am not sure what is meant by the fluke angle ?
If it is the angle between the shank and the fluke....
Than, Spade infect has the biggest Shank to Fluke angle..... And bigger fluke to shank angle does not help setting ability but hurts it....
If you think ability to set in hard to penetrate bottom is not important to you you are right you should not be impressed, but if you want an anchor that sets everywhere an anchor you can count to set in an emergency even at short scope...
Than you should care....


----------



## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

Mantus,

Could you run some tests .....same as those presented....with say a 6 ft. piece of 1/4" or 5/16" chain shackled to anchors and then the same rope rode length? And if doing it with 25 lb. anchors, increase the chain length to say 20 ft. Would there be a difference? Just my opinion, but I believe more people might be impressed since this more closely duplicates what they do.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

While I believe this anchor sets well, I can't count how many set demonstrations I've seen in my lifetime that have shown this same comparison to the competition. They can't all be true. 

The only thing I don't like about the Mantus are the bolts. Perhaps that's unreasonable or old fashioned, but I prefer a one piece anchor.


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

We certainly could, and we might... The truth be told that no matter what we do people are naturally sceptical and will certainly question our claims and challenge our video presentations. Chain certainly improves virtual scope via the centenary effect and thus improves setting ability.... And though I know that in this particular location the above anchors will not set with/without chain.... What our aim was is to show in the video that even in the worst conditions "no chain", "short scope", "very hard bottom" and the anchor still "SETS"


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

We believe that setting is the single most important attribute, because in an emergency, like: your engine does not start and the wind is pushing you towards rocks. The anchor has to bite and it has to bite fast....
So what we do is provide this reliable and unbeatable setting ability.... at the same time there is no compromise on holding power, robustness, and the anchor disassembles for easy storage...


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> While I believe this anchor sets well, I can't count how many set demonstrations I've seen in my lifetime that have shown this same comparison to the competition. They can't all be true.
> 
> The only thing I don't like about the Mantus are the bolts. Perhaps that's unreasonable or old fashioned, but I prefer a one piece anchor.


That is why we did not report numbers or measure distances, we just shot the videos and showed you everything zoomed out.... There is no where to hide any tricks..... Again these are not nominal conditions! Rocna, Spade are known for their setting ability but still there are areas where they don't work,
Mantus works everywhere..... and that is what you need for emergency gear.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Very ameteur display not worthy of the quality of the Manus anchor and will hurt your branding

I am sure NCC320 will say I am biased here. but why not test a more realistic set up. 

Have some chain, have an anchor weight that most of us would use not 8 or 9 llbs. 
and a scope other than 2:1. I would never anchor like that. Your cantenary angle would be to high and with a large wake pull it right straight up. Do it more scientifically. Where is the other "new generation anchor the Manson Supreme"? Makes me wonder why it was omitted and you used a spade instead. 

I have a very hard time believing your design is significantly better than Rocna and Manson and I think you are splitting hairs and will lose people if try and say that. The fact that it their equal is good enough. You "claim to fame" here is that its easier to carry because it dissassembles not that its better than the other two.

I dont buy that and certainly after this kind of demonstaration. Come on your product is good, dont ruin it with something that looks like a stunt.

Dave


----------



## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

chef2sail said:


> Very ameteur display not worthy of the quality of the Manus anchor and will hurt your branding
> 
> I am sure NCC320 will say I am biased here. but why not test a more realistic set up.
> 
> ...


I agree with Dave - and the others...

The idea behind the video is great, but you need to make it appear as unbiased as you possibly can;

use a chain leader
use a greater scope (3:1 is a JOKE)
start the test in the same spot
pull with a vehicle


----------



## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

chef2sail said:


> I am sure NCC320 will say I am biased here. but why not test a more realistic set up.
> 
> Dave


---------Not this time. I agree. While I think Mantus has a great product from all I have seen or heard about owner/user results, I think they are missing the boat in convincing people of the value of their product.

Typical suggested test: 25 lb. anchors (or 35), 20-30 ft. 5/16 chain, 5/8 nylon rode, set at 7:1 scope, and again at 5:1 scope. Also, veering pull to 90 degrees after set. Record maximum pull (holding force), as well as distance to set.

While the above would be a better test, in the interest of time, for a quick and dirty test by hand with the 9 lbs. anchors, repeat those earlier shallow water tests with a 6 ft. piece of chain between the rode and the anchor. No one that I know anchors without at least a bit of chain connected to the anchor. And include Manson Supreme and Rockna, as well as the others (danforth, spade, bruce, delta, CRQ, and maybe Fortress). That's your current competition, and the old anchors that people have to be convinced to discard.

Both Chef and I have bought a Mantus (because of the disassembly feature) as a spare/storm anchor, so we basically believe in the product.

Side Note:

This link mentioned by Mantus as basis for the tests he presented:

http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/Anchor Tests/Practical Sailor Large Anchor Tests.pdf

Claw style (Bruce knockoff), Rocna, Mantus Supreme were compared. As a Bruce owner I was gratified to see that, of the three, Bruce was the top one. In too many of these anchor tests by other anchor manufacturers and by supply houses selling anchors, the tests always show the Bruce being horrible, but lots and lots of people swear by them. Same with Danforths, but they are everywhere. So one can kind of see that if performance were plotted vs. cost, more expensive and newer are always better....no bias here? or maybe a little bit? or even a whole lot, after all, they want us to buy something.

Mantus, many of us believe yours maybe tops, but some additional testing would go a long way in reassuring us.


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

chef2sail said:


> Very ameteur display not worthy of the quality of the Manus anchor and will hurt your branding
> 
> I am sure NCC320 will say I am biased here. but why not test a more realistic set up.
> 
> ...


Our Product is good on that point we agree  I am glad

First I think you should watch the video another time and you will see the Manson Supreme is in there, we did not want to crowd the video, but Manson Boss does not set here at any scope. Hold, did you even watch the video  ?

We use 2:1 Scope to mirror the Practicle Sailor Test:
http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/Anchor%20Tests/Practical%20Sailor%20Large%20Anchor%20Tests.pdf

Its a way to challenge the anchor, as stated earlier, even in these conditions Mantus Sets. To a reasonable person that implies that in less demanding conditions it will work as well..... If does not, you can reference a video library of pulls with and without vehicles, with and without chain and at different scopes.
Test Videos | MantusAnchors
We are still working on it, but I think will satisfy everyone's idea of a perfect Test eventually.....
What I am trying to relate in this video is that Mantus "Sets" better than competition if I thought it was no different than its brothers I would not be spending this time to convince you otherwise....


----------



## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

I'm in agreement with Chef, instead of trying to prove your anchor sets better than Rocna or Manson do a real life test with some decent sized anchors with some/all chain on them. Setting is only one part of the anchoring equation, maximum holding is the other IMO. Having an anchor set quickly is great, but if it starts dragging when the wind picks up it isn't a good anchor. It may just be me but I'm also picking up a bit of attitude in your responses to the questions, suggestions and criticism from your potential customers here. Not smart.


----------



## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Mantus Anchors said:


> Our Product is good on that point we agree  I am glad
> 
> First I think you should watch the video another time and you will see the Manson Supreme is in there, we did not want to crowd the video, but Manson Boss does not set here at any scope. Hold, did you even watch the video  ?
> 
> ...


Gimme a break...

PS only tested 3 anchors in this 2009 test._Part _of their their conclusion was;


> The Ray, Rocna, and Supreme are all well-made anchors, and all showed good setting ability in difficult bottom conditions in our beach testing.
> The performances of the Rocna and Supreme were very similar, with the edge going to the Supreme in price and short-scope situations and the Rocna in hard sand and ultimate holding.


They were not given the opportunity to test the construction quality of your anchor, and I would hold anything that you say as suspect. The simple fact is that you are biased... All that you did here was test setting ability in an unrealistic test...

IF you really want an unbiased conclusion, send Main Sail a 30-35lb version of your anchor, and ask him to do a writeup. Otherwise, you are making me think of Craig Smith....


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The trouble with the video test is the precise angle of all rope rode, which may take advantage of a specific geometry of the Mantus. However, lets see it over a variety of scopes, with and without chain and at other weights.

Seriously, every single anchor manufacturer out there has determined the precise test they will win.

I'm not saying this isn't a good anchor, just that the video isn't as convincing as it was intended and may be backfiring a bit. Run it through all the paces and you may have something I've never seen another document.


----------



## addict (Apr 5, 2010)

Throw 5-6 ft of chain on there I'm sure they would all set almost exactly the same.


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I believe mainsail HAS purchased an anchor, and has some basic test results posted. Overall, he was pretty impressed as I recall.

There is another fellow local, that has one as his std anchor, and has gone thru some 60 knot winds and held so far. Altho with his pertinacity to figure out how to ground his boat......not sure a 100 lbs version will do him any good. I can figure out how to get the size he has, IIRC in the 40-50 lbs range.

Marty


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I just dig the '70's porn music. Well done Mantus!


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

smackdaddy said:


> I just dig the '70's porn music. Well done Mantus!


Finally the recognition I deserve! That's all I wanted


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Guys, step back a second! Even if we could accommodate everyone's wishes and conduct a perfect test that was designed with solid scientific method and reported nice graphs with confidence intervals for all the engineers out there . I will present this data in a write up or a graph and everyone will believe it obviously because I am ...Russian? or Just have an honest face? I don't even shave but once a month. 
Why not take it for what it is..... Here in our great state of Texas  there is a beach that has hard bottom.... small anchors don't set there, Mantus does.....
It sets there even at short scope. If that does not tell you anything..... well so be it
However there might be some viewers out there that pause and say: 
"little baby 2 lbs Mantus can set, where a 21 lbs Spade can't, I will take note"
So this videos though not helpful to some provide useful info to others or so I hope 
Be safe out there with whatever you got on your boat
Cheers


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Mantus Anchors said:


> Besides what formal test do you know, that tests setting in hard to penetrate bottom....
> Have you ever seen at test where an anchor from a big Manufacturer completely failed? Tests don't get set up that way..
> The closest you could come to a real test is Main Sail.... And the combined knowledge of the sailing community....
> In an emergency you need gear that you can rely on, it needs to work all the time and every time.... and immediately


Ok, here is the quote from Mainesail initial testing in "Another Next Generation Anchor Enters the Market Post #146



> The new gen anchors are all they are cracked up to be.... I can use ANY anchor I want from the top list, I currently own them and they owe me nothing. After years of my own testing, for my own edification,* I choose the Rocna, Manson Supreme or Mantus first then the Spade as second. *
> 
> I am currently using the Mantus and it is a very, very good anchor. After this season is over I will go back to my Rocna but only because it fits my roller better. The Mantus will join my Spade as a back up/storm anchor as well as the Fortress s my dedicated stern anchor.
> 
> *I find the Manson, Rocna and Mantus to be very similar in performance with the Mantus slightly edging out the Rocna and Manson in fast setting. Course when I say fast we are talking inches difference in set not feet.*..Mainesail


An endoresement for Mantus, but not exactley what your video is stating. As I stated before no apparent advantage over the other Next Gen anchors, Rocna and Manson Supreme. The big selling point is its able to be stowed easily. I have one now as a backup stowed in my anchor locker. Just as a side I have anchored in hard sand many times with a 33 ln Rocna and 60 ft of chain with never a problem the Rocna digging first time down. I would expect the same from the Mantus/

Dave


----------



## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

chef2sail said:


> Ok, here is the quote from Mainesail initial testing in "Another Next Generation Anchor Enters the Market Post #146


Now that is completely credible. Each generation should be an improvement over the last, and so I have no trouble believing the Mantus is very good. But having used Rocna and Manson I know what they will do. Dragging them at very low scope on hard sand with no chain is silly. If the tester had lifted the rope just a bit higher none would have bit, and from that we could conclude that a rock would serve as well.

Bolts? When new I'm sure it is rock solid, as that is easier to engineer than a weld. After 15 years? Only testing to destruction could say, but I suspect periodic bolt replacement would be needed for heavy users. 5 years? Wait longer and they won't come out. I would lean towards all welded, as the bolts bring me no up-side. Not a criticism so much as feedback for the manufacturer to consider.


----------



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Honestly, I think you guys are being a little obstinate. The video seemed like a fair comparison to me in terms of what was being shown. Was it "scientific"? No...it's a dude on a beach in shorts dragging anchors around on a short line for crying out loud. But you can't deny that for those conditions shown, the Mantus was pretty consistent in setting where the others weren't.

Mantus - a word of advice, you'll never win if you go down this road.


----------



## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

Actually, Mantus has made a number of different test videos. On one of his website pages, you will see tests using a winch on a truck with a chain/rope rode on the anchor to illustrate the holding power in that particular bottom. In another video, he summarizes the test results in three different bottoms giving the holding forces achieved in those tests. In those tests, you would have to say that Mantus was all around better. We've been a bit hard in some of our criticisms and those criticisms might be resolved a bit by reviewing all of the test series presented at this link, especially those in typical anchoring conditions:

....Test Videos | MantusAnchors

When I try to post the link above, it comes out different from what the page shows. Type in this link.

www.mantusanchors.com/test-video


----------



## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Agree with NC, I think Mantus is just trying to show their anchor will set in conditions that the others wouldn't, realistic or not. Add some chain and the others may set better than without.

Paul T


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

smackdaddy said:


> Honestly, I think you guys are being a little obstinate. The video seemed like a fair comparison to me in terms of what was being shown. Was it "scientific"? No...it's a dude on a beach in shorts dragging anchors around on a short line for crying out loud. But you can't deny that for those conditions shown, the Mantus was pretty consistent in setting where the others weren't.
> 
> Mantus - a word of advice, you'll never win if you go down this road.


Good advice to Mantus. You can't video your own test and defend it. If there was a single attempt where the Mantus didn't bite, would it have made the edit?

Obstinate? Not really. I think its a good anchor, just like all the new-gen anchors. It's just a bad idea to film yourself to try to prove anything.

I'm still waiting for the vid of Smack flying one hull of Fiasco in the air, with a drink in one hand and the tiller in the other. But I ain't believing it's the first attempt......


----------



## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

What's it made of? Why are they bolting the component pieces together? Not sure I'd want to trust my boat to a bunch of nuts! (No pun intended).


----------



## Jiminri (Aug 26, 2012)

billyruffn said:


> What's it made of? Why are they bolting the component pieces together? Not sure I'd want to trust my boat to a bunch of nuts! (No pun intended).


My 4,500 pound lead keel is held on by bolts. I've never lost sleep worrying that it would fall off.


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

billyruffn said:


> What's it made of? Why are they bolting the component pieces together? Not sure I'd want to trust my boat to a bunch of nuts! (No pun intended).


Saw a new anchor two with weld joints that would be suspect awhile back.

Reality is, nuts/bolts or weld joints, either if not done correctly can and do fail. I would trust nuts and bolts before welds for many items. Hopefully, if one uses one of these as a storm anchor, as a few have bought them, they have time BEFORE the storm hits to tighten/torque the nuts/bolts to a proper spec and they should hold just fine. I would worry about other items on my anchoring system before nuts and bolts holding the anchor together. Like the rope rubbing on something below I can not see and breaking, the shackle tween the chain and anchor/ or chain and rope if the latter is not spliced. Maybe even the cleats on the deck!

Then I digress..........the fellow local with a mantus that went thru some 60 knot winds has a 65lb unit for a 40 or so foot boat, that is probably around 20K as he has it loaded. It did drag once, but personally, I would put it on operator error over the anchor itself, along with potentially some other issues beyond the scope of the anchor.

Marty


----------



## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

Jiminri said:


> My 4,500 pound lead keel is held on by bolts. I've never lost sleep worrying that it would fall off.


Point taken, but somehow I think I'd rather have forged steel vs nuts and bolts.


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Mantus Anchors said:


> We certainly could, and we might... The truth be told that no matter what we do people are naturally sceptical and will certainly question our claims and challenge our video presentations. Chain certainly improves virtual scope via the centenary effect and thus improves setting ability.... And though I know that in this particular location the above anchors will not set with/without chain.... What our aim was is to show in the video that even in the worst conditions "no chain", "short scope", "very hard bottom" and the anchor still "SETS"


The parameters you were testing were very valid IMHO - being able to operate on short scope is an extremely valuable trait for an anchor.

I would recommend that you be more careful with your video work to ensure that all tests are viewed or presented the same - seeing one anchor being pulled with the tester, rode and anchor all in full view and another where only the anchor can be seen can lead to skepticism in the viewer.


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

billyruffn said:


> What's it made of? Why are they bolting the component pieces together? Not sure I'd want to trust my boat to a bunch of nuts! (No pun intended).


That was thoroughly discussed a while back. The ability to break it down and store it flat can be a big advantage to many.

Bridges and airplanes are bolted together.  I agree that at first glance, a one piece forging intuitively seems stronger but it really isn't so.


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Dear Netters, I feel like you are a family... Some members are at times problem children but I love you all nontheless  So I wanted to disclaim that whatever anchor you have, you should be proud of it and defend it it is your right! But if you are in the market for a new boat present, check this video out....


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Much better vid. It shows that each set similarly (unlike the previous vid), but the Mantus held better as you tried to power them back out. It is worth noting that the test uses anchors designed for boats generally under 20ft. A truck powering them back out isn't astonishing.

Nevertheless, you should really hire an independent certification company to do these tests and publish them. Your confidence in your product is clearly high enough to justify the effort. Manufacturer self-test advertising will always involve a little suspicion, no matter how hard you try. I have no desire to discredit, only to point out that these may have been the best showing of a dozen attempts. Seems you stand a good chance of winning an independent showdown.


----------



## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Mantus Anchors said:


> Dear Netters, I feel like you are a family... Some members are at times problem children but I love you all nontheless  So I wanted to disclaim that whatever anchor you have, you should be proud of it and defend it it is your right! But if you are in the market for a new boat present, check this video out....


much better video than the one in your original post, can't dispute much there.


----------



## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Mantus Anchors said:


> Dear Netters, I feel like you are a family... Some members are at times problem children but I love you all nontheless  So I wanted to disclaim that whatever anchor you have, you should be proud of it and defend it it is your right! But if you are in the market for a new boat present, check this video out....


And we love you, and the thought provoking anchor discussions you initiate, too!

Could you also develop a solar panel mounting bracket? You could call it "Solar-Stuck"...  We could debate that for years.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SloopJonB said:


> That was thoroughly discussed a while back. The ability to break it down and store it flat can be a big advantage to many.
> 
> Bridges and airplanes are bolted together.  I agree that at first glance, a one piece forging intuitively seems stronger but it really isn't so.


Yes, but the plate that the nuts go through on a Mantus appears to be welded to the shank, not forged. Wonder which is the weakest link.

I like the idea of bolts for a stowable anchor. For permanent, is there no concern over crevice corrosion?


----------



## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Mantus: Why are your recommended anchor sizes so much larger than Ronca or Manson? 

I have a 7000lb empty, so probably 9-10000lb full 28' boat (Pearson 28-2). The conservative recommendation from Ronca is a Ronca 10 (10kg/22lbs) (good to 11,000lb boat). From Manson it is the similar weight Manson Supreme 25 (11.2kg/25lbs). 

However the Mantus website recommends a much larger 16kg/35lbs because the 11kg/25lb model is only recommended for boats up to 5000lbs (an odd recommendation since few 30' cruisers are that light).

This immediately turned me off of your product even though some other aspects (the disassembly for instance) were nice.


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Yes, but the plate that the nuts go through on a Mantus appears to be welded to the shank, not forged. Wonder which is the weakest link.
> 
> I like the idea of bolts for a stowable anchor. For permanent, is there no concern over crevice corrosion?


That plate has a cut out, the shank is welded from the top and bottom to the mounting plate..... You chain will break long before either the shank or the bolts give out. Have you ever seen anchor damaged where the shank pulled out? The most likely damage to expect is the bending of the shank with side load, this will happen with as little as 500 lbs if the anchor is stuck in rocks...
I am sure you have seen bent shanks before... We provide a lifetime warranty on all anchor parts no questions asked.... **** happens!

As far as corrosion, galvanized anchor.... once you star seeing rust on the anchor not just the tip, but bad rust everywhere, its time to inspect the bolts, they are protected because as long as galvanization stays on.... they will not rust and there is not rubbing on the guts of bearing surface of the bolt.... bolts do not effect the time before re galvanization....
When assembled its just like any other anchor, if you use the lube provided it will be easier to 
remove the nuts 3-4 years down the road of heavy use....

Stainless Steel Anchors do have that potential problem, so as your SS chain-plates there should periodic checks on the bolts every 3-4 years... And if you buys SS anchor we will send you replacement bolts for free...


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I like the lifetime warranty. Same as Rocna. Requires either company to be in business in the future, of course. 

There was incredible controversy over Rocna claiming a higher grade of steel that would better resist bending the shank, but then fell back on the warranty to protect buyers against failure of a lesser grade metal. Many didn't buy it. 

How does the 500 lb bending force younreference compare to your competition and has it been independently tested?


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Alex W said:


> Mantus: Why are your recommended anchor sizes so much larger than Ronca or Manson?
> 
> I have a 7000lb empty, so probably 9-10000lb full 28' boat (Pearson 28-2). The conservative recommendation from Ronca is a Ronca 10 (10kg/22lbs) (good to 11,000lb boat). From Manson it is the similar weight Manson Supreme 25 (11.2kg/25lbs).
> 
> ...


Its simply the matter of being conservative for real cruising use...
The problem is all the test are done in good holding grounds....
If you go to an area that has loose muck its a completely different story
We size for a boat to stay put in 50-60 knot winds in protected bay..... Regardless what bottom you encounter....







In this video pay attention what happens in loose bottom

So we envelope our recommendation to cover the worst situation


----------



## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Rocna says the same thing about being conservative for real cruising use though. Here is what their page says:
"Our sizing is conservative, intended to provide an anchor adequate for use in all conditions most boaters would ever endure. We base our calculations on 50 knots wind, associated surge, and soft moderate holding bottoms into which it is assumed the anchor has set. Adequate scope is assumed."

That sounds very similar to what you've said, but you still recommend only half of the boat weight for the 10/11kg anchor than they do.

I'm not a fan of any specific next gen anchor since I don't own any of them. I'm leaning towards a Rocna due to the detailed technical answers on their website helping me choose the best one for my needs and explaining why their anchors work.


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Alex W said:


> Rocna says the same thing about being conservative for real cruising use though. Here is what their page says:
> "Our sizing is conservative, intended to provide an anchor adequate for use in all conditions most boaters would ever endure. We base our calculations on 50 knots wind, associated surge, and soft moderate holding bottoms into which it is assumed the anchor has set. Adequate scope is assumed."
> 
> That sounds very similar to what you've said, but you still recommend only half of the boat weight for the 10/11kg anchor than they do.
> ...


Alex I am sure if you buy a Rocna you will be very happy with it!


----------



## Noelex (Jan 23, 2008)

Manufacturers have been recommending anchors that are too light for marketing reasons for a long time.
If anchor A recommends a 40 lb anchor for my boat and anchor B recommends a 30lb anchor. Then a lot of people, sadly, believe anchor B must be better.

This creates a lot of commercial pressure for anchor manufacturers to recommend very light anchors. Mantus are to be congratulated for resisting this pressure and giving cruising sailors honest advice.


----------



## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

The rule of thumb is; 1lb of anchor for every foot of monohull boat length.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

eherlihy said:


> The rule of thumb is; 1lb of anchor for every foot of monohull boat length.


I think as you start to get above 40ft, the weight and windage start to increase exponentially and so does the necessary anchor weight. We have 75 lbs hanging off the roller right now and that's considered an avg weight, not excessive.


----------



## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Where are the anchors manufactured? I'm sure it was covered many moons ago in other Mantus threads but I'm lazy.


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

noelex77 said:


> Manufacturers have been recommending anchors that are too light for marketing reasons for a long time.
> If anchor A recommends a 40 lb anchor for my boat and anchor B recommends a 30lb anchor. Then a lot of people, sadly, believe anchor B must be better.
> 
> This creates a lot of commercial pressure for anchor manufacturers to recommend very light anchors. Mantus are to be congratulated for resisting this pressure and giving cruising sailors honest advice.


Why would a manufacturer recommend an undersize anchor? Heavier is more expensive so more profit and lighter creates the possibility of some sort of failure.

I've found that manufacturers specs are frequently VERY conservative - over the top for all but world cruisers.


----------



## Noelex (Jan 23, 2008)

SloopJonB said:


> Why would a manufacturer recommend an undersize anchor? Heavier is more expensive so more profit and lighter creates the possibility of some sort of failure.
> 
> I've found that manufacturers specs are frequently VERY conservative - over the top for all but world cruisers.


See post 45 by Alex W.
It suggests the anchor is better.

Most cruising sailors go up 1 sometimes 2 sizes from the manufactures recommendation.
Those that stick to the manufacturers recommendation are, usually, rarely anchoring overnight.

Your avatar sugests your anchor is too heavy


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

noelex77 said:


> Your avatar sugests your anchor is too heavy


Yeah - so much for sailing it out.


----------



## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

"MOST" manufacture recommendations are for winds up to 40 knots. THey then recommend a size or two up if you have a heavy windage boat, and if in storm/hurricane conditions, also a size or two up. You can look at some of the sites, Danforth IIRC has size recommendations for 20, 40 and 60 knot winds. The more the wind, the heavier the anchor, along with fluke size to hold better. 

I doubt that too many recommend an anchor that is too small per say, that would open up the rear for another hole to be drilled into if you will. Then they also can not predict ALL types of conditions, 40-50' waves vs 4-5' waves in 60 knot winds on an open ocean beach area vs here in puget sound. Possibly a 10 knot current going with a 60 knot wind! One has to personally adapt the size and type of equipment for the use they will run across.

Marty


----------



## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

The argument here is that Rocna is undersizing their anchors and that I should step up a size. However everywhere else on sailnet people seem to think that their recommendations are accurate. They certainly provide the most detailed information on what conditions they are making those recommendations for. 

I have upsized my anchor purchases in the past, but that was for a Lewmar Claw on a smaller boat where Lewmar provides very few details on what conditions their recommendations apply to. I do sleep on the boat while it's on the hook, and not always in the most calm conditions. I want a good anchor, but I don't want to carry around, haul up, or pay for extra weight if it is unnecessary.

I'm surprised and disappointed that Mantus found my query to be dismiss-able. It doesn't give me a lot of confidence when purchasing their product, which seems to be entirely against the point of them starting this thread. However I'm now very unlikely to buy a Mantus anchor and will step out of this thread.


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Alex W said:


> I'm surprised and disappointed that Mantus found my query to be dismiss-able. It doesn't give me a lot of confidence when purchasing their product, which seems to be entirely against the point of them starting this thread. However I'm now very unlikely to buy a Mantus anchor and will step out of this thread.


Alex, my apologies I was not trying to be dismissive at all!!!! I thought you made a decision and had your mind made up and your arguments are solid...
We just disagree with Rocna on what conservative means that's all. I have seen boats drag... in the worst of situations. I was in Panama once and friend was on a 40 foot boat using a 45 lbs Manson Supreme 6:1 scope all chain and he popped out and had to re anchor in 35 knot gust situation when the harbour got bit exposed and had 3 footers crawling through it..... I have seen a boat end up on a reef when using an appropriately sized Spade... These are all awesome anchors... but in loose bottom all bets are off... 
So I am sorry if I offended, I just did not want to be pushy proving a point....
Greg


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Oh and Happy New Years everyone!


----------



## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Mantus Anchors said:


> Alex, my apologies I was not trying to be dismissive at all!!!! I thought you made a decision and had your mind made up and your arguments are solid...
> We just disagree with Rocna on what conservative means that's all. I have seen boats drag... in the worst of situations. I was in Panama once and friend was on a 40 foot boat using a 45 lbs Manson Supreme 6:1 scope all chain and he popped out and had to re anchor in 35 knot gust situation when the harbour got bit exposed and had 3 footers crawling through it..... I have seen a boat end up on a reef when using an appropriately sized Spade... These are all awesome anchors... but in loose bottom all bets are off...
> So I am sorry if I offended, I just did not want to be pushy proving a point....
> Greg


Your anchors are probably great. Your posts are polite and seem to be well meaning. However your arguments are often transparent and your tests, though interesting, are far from scientific.

The example you show above is just silly. We all know that any anchor can fail and if I had to pick any fault it would be 6-1 scope in 35 knot winds with 3 foot seas... hell, if the boat was anchored in 9 feet of water and the average wave height was 3 feet... you factor in all the variables and do the math on that one. I can't because I don't have all the facts... It's...just...so...frustrating... 

The videos are interesting, but, show me 100 versions of each test, then add some more tests, then test again, Only then I will begin to think the Mantus is that much better.

Yes, it's probably just as good AND you can disassemble it AND it may be inexpensive.... but you have not convinced me that it's any better at holding the boat to the bottom then the other two.

I'm not being critical of your anchor, just your methods of marketing it here. If anything, I hope you take this as constructive criticism.


----------



## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

RobGallagher said:


> Yes, it's probably just as good AND you can disassemble it AND it may be inexpensive.... but you have not convinced me that it's any better at holding the boat to the bottom then the other two.


Have you read Maine's posts on it? It does sound very good from what he posted. Not a quantum leap but a definite improvement when one considers the flat storage etc.


----------



## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

SloopJonB said:


> Have you read Maine's posts on it? It does sound very good from what he posted. Not a quantum leap but a definite improvement when one considers the flat storage etc.


Yes, and I came darn close to buying one. At the time there was not as much info and I was suspect of spending my $$ on a newer product so I purchased a Manson Supreme. It didn't fit well on my roller so I returned it and got a Rocna. If I had to do it all over again I might buy a Mantus. That does not change my argument that Mantus has not proven that it holds any better or worse than a Manson or a Rocna.

I would buy Mantus because it probably holds just as well as the other two and it's priced well. The disassemble feature is nice, but once I put it together I doubt I would ever take it apart so that's a non-issue for me.


----------



## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

This might not be the right thread, but this one seems to be the active one at the moment. My question for the OP is; how important is the roll-bar to holding strength and setting? 

I have a boat with a bowsprit and my current anchor is a CQR that has the typical configuration of the fluke hanging below the bow platform and the shank extends through the platform. The other modern types of anchors with roll bars won't fit under my bowsprit, so I'm not interested in those as a primary anchor. 

I find this anchor intriguing since it looks like I could remove the roll bar and it might be a drop in replacement for the CQR. I would not, however, want to make this replacement if removing the roll bar would render the anchor a step down from my CQR or even worse, useless. 

Any thoughts on this?


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

SloopJonB said:


> Have you read Maine's posts on it? It does sound very good from what he posted. Not a quantum leap but a definite improvement when one considers the flat storage etc.


Here is Maine test results posted again. I posted them earlier in the thread



> The new gen anchors are all they are cracked up to be.... I can use ANY anchor I want from the top list, I currently own them and they owe me nothing. *After years of my own testing, for my own edification, I choose the Rocna, Manson Supreme or Mantus first *then the Spade as second.
> 
> I *am currently using the Mantus and it is a very, very good anchor. After this season is over I will go back to my Rocna but only because it fits my roller better. The Mantus will join my Spade as a back up/storm anchor as well as the Fortress s my dedicated stern anchor.*
> 
> *I find the Manson, Rocna and Mantus to be very similar in performance with the Mantus slightly edging out the Rocna and Manson in fast setting. Course when I say fast we are talking inches difference in set not feet*...Mainesail


To me he is saying that are virtually equal. If it was me buying my first anchor I would look at the pricing, the company and the claims it makes, and then decide. If it not going to be taken apart and stored that feature becomes a non-starter and Maine is saying they are virtually equal. If you are looking for a stowable anchor...the Mantus gives you the same protection as the other two new gen anchors and can be taken apart and stowed.

I would like an independent company ( practical sailor for instance to do scientific tests on it) I trust Mainsails ability, but it would be nice to see it independently verified. i would never buy an anchor *strictly* on the claims the company makes in its advertissing or the videos it produces themselves. Independent testing is just that independent.

BTW I have a Rocna primary and a Mantus stowed in my anchor compartment.

Dave


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

SloopJonB said:


> Have you read Maine's posts on it? It does sound very good from what he posted. Not a quantum leap but a definite improvement when one considers the flat storage etc.


Here is Maine test results posted again. I posted them earlier in the thread



> The new gen anchors are all they are cracked up to be.... I can use ANY anchor I want from the top list, I currently own them and they owe me nothing. *After years of my own testing, for my own edification, I choose the Rocna, Manson Supreme or Mantus first *then the Spade as second.
> 
> I *am currently using the Mantus and it is a very, very good anchor. After this season is over I will go back to my Rocna but only because it fits my roller better. The Mantus will join my Spade as a back up/storm anchor as well as the Fortress s my dedicated stern anchor.*
> 
> *I find the Manson, Rocna and Mantus to be very similar in performance with the Mantus slightly edging out the Rocna and Manson in fast setting. Course when I say fast we are talking inches difference in set not feet*...Mainesail


To me he is saying that are virtually equal. If it was me buying my first anchor I would look at the pricing, the company and the claims it makes, and then decide. If it not going to be taken apart and stored that feature becomes a non-starter and Maine is saying they are virtually equal. If you are looking for a stowable anchor...the Mantus gives you the same protection as the other two new gen anchors and can be taken apart and stowed.

I would like an independent company ( practical sailor for instance to do scientific tests on it) I trust Mainsails ability, but it would be nice to see it independently verified. i would never buy an anchor *strictly* on the claims the company makes in its advertissing or the videos it produces themselves. Independent testing is just that independent.

BTW I have a Rocna primary and a Mantus stowed in my anchor compartment .

Dave


----------



## misfits (Dec 9, 2011)

From watching the videos, pretty impressive. Forget the scope, hand setting & no chain issues, can't argue the fact that the anchor bites everytime. 

Will it be avalaible in a welded version?


----------



## lancelot9898 (Dec 30, 2008)

The best endorsement Mantus can get is from Mainsail IMHO.


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Mantus has a very interesting marketing approach. Probably cutting edge. Use social media and internet distribution, almost exclusively. Very inexpensive, but it is interactive and almost exclusively targeted at your audience, unlike putting an ad on a billboard or TV/radio. I think it's going to be the next-gen way that products are introduced and sold.

However, the manufacturers are going to have to be skilled at dealing with the interaction. Questioning their claims, etc. When you see a B.S. ad on TV, you just know it, but it can't talk back. In many ways, this is better for the consumer and may drive more integrity in the marketing process. We have seen boastful, inaccurate representations by others and they were promptly outed. We'll see.

So, in the spirit of interaction. The stowable feature of this anchor, seems to be a clear advantage over other next-gens. Although, for me, I would have to keep 85 pounds of steel somewhere, compared to 32 lbs for my bagged Fortress. 

My big question about this anchor is the dissimilar metals in the bolts and crevice corrosion for when the anchor is left assembled permanently. Have these been tested? Wet, salt water, low oxygen environment between those sandwiched pieces could theoretically take the inside of those ss bolts apart, while the heads look brand new. Mantus, have you done tests on this?


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

misfits said:


> From watching the videos, pretty impressive. Forget the scope, hand setting & no chain issues, can't argue the fact that the anchor bites everytime.
> 
> Will it be avalaible in a welded version?


We don't have plans currently to make it as a one piece model, but once assembled it could be used as the solid anchor, you don't have to take it apart until the time comes to re-galvanize. It just gives you another option, and if you use anti-seize lube provided, taking the bolts off is no problem.


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Guys I am off to a Race in a Regatta, so I will answer your questions when I get back tonight...
Greg


----------



## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I was clear that I hadn't made my mind up by saying that I haven't bought any next gen anchor yet. I'm still shopping around on anchor model and sizing.

I still don't understand why your sizing recommendations on the small anchors are so much more conservative than they are on the mid-size anchors (or in comparison to Rocna and Manson). The holding power should be highly related to the size of the spade, correct? The spade on the Mantus 35 is only about 20% larger than the spade on the Mantus 25, but it is appropriate for boats 300% heavier? Going up one more size the blade is again about 20% larger, but the maximum boat weight only goes up by 33%. When I graph your maximum boat weights against the blade area I get a graph with very non-linear jumps. If I do the same for Rocna sizing recommendations I get a nice predictable slightly exponential curve. 

The non-linearity of your recommendations don't make any sense in isolation, and make even less sense when compared to the competition. It just happens to be that my anchor size is at a point where your recommendations are the least consistent.

Happy new year and good look at the regatta today!


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Alex W said:


> The argument here is that Rocna is undersizing their anchors and that I should step up a size. However everywhere else on sailnet people seem to think that their recommendations are accurate......


The Rocna sizing chart is pretty good, IMO, as it allows for both length and weight, length being a proxy for windage, I assume. I can't see why an anchor cares how long the boat is. If I were bumping up against the exact upper limit for either, I would probably jump a size. Otherwise, I think some wiggle room has been built in. Also note that their chart is in Metric Tonnes, not US, therefore add about 10% to each. In my case, it calls for the same anchor whether I was 52, 59 or 66 ft. Its just a bigger tonnage margin above where I fall on the chart at 54ft. It says I should use a 40kg/88lb anchor. Bigger than the CQR I have now.

Mantus offers big blocks that combine length and weight into one. There I fall in the column that accomodates up to 60ft and 60,000 pounds, which is a 48kg/105lb anchor. If you extrapolate a 60ft/30T boat on the Rocna grid, it would suggest something between their 40kg and 55kg model.

Pretty similar in the end.


----------



## NCC320 (Dec 23, 2008)

Alex W said:


> Mantus: Why are your recommended anchor sizes so much larger than Ronca or Manson?
> 
> I have a 7000lb empty, so probably 9-10000lb full 28' boat (Pearson 28-2). The conservative recommendation from Ronca is a Ronca 10 (10kg/22lbs) (good to 11,000lb boat). From Manson it is the similar weight Manson Supreme 25 (11.2kg/25lbs).
> 
> ...


Alex,

Mantus' truck test wherein he uses a tree/arm to test the anchors, the Mantus was the smaller than either the Manson or Rocna, but the test was pretty convincing in that ground/~9 lb. anchor range. Mantus vs. Manson, then Mantus vs. Rocna, showed the Mantus holding longer than the others. This was just for small anchors, of course. Maybe Mantus should repeat that test with big anchors, but he is going to need a pretty big truck. Look at the test again.

Mantus vs Rocna vs Manson Supreme, Truck with the spreader bar.mp4 - YouTube

Also, I wouldn't make too much of Rocna's website/data/videos/explanations, which are slicker and more refined. Rocna has been around a lot longer and they've had time to refine their presentations. Mantus is currently small and just getting started. In time, his presentations are likely to be refined to be as good as any. I was once told by a vendor that they could do anything, it just takes time, time and money. I suspect the same applies here in comparing the presentations.

My boat weighs 11,700 lbs. empty and is 32 ft. long. When selecting my primary anchor (before the new ones came on the scene), I looked around and the genuine Bruce was recommended. When I went to size it, my boat fell more or less at the break point....either 22 lb. Bruce or 33 lb. Bruce. I went with the larger anchor. Your loaded weight is somewhat in the same range, and Mantus' recommendation is 35 lb. (between 25 lb.and 35 lb. sizes). For your boat at 10,000 lbs., you say that the Rocna 10 recommendation is 22 lbs. for up to 11,000 lbs. Anchoring requirements are not an exact science and you are clearly at the top range of the Rocna 22 lb., so if one were being conservative, you would pick the next size up for Rocna, which would be a Rocna 15 or 33 lb. So it's all pretty much coming to the same weight point. (I did look at the 5,000 lbs. number for Mantus and I think that is probably low for the Mantus 25 lb. Don't be surprised if sometime in the future, Mantus revises that upward a bit.)


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Alex, much of what NCC320 said I agree with....
hmm what can I say the 5000lbs is a typo/mistake, we made the chart in Tons (5T) bc I have a metric background and somehow a mistake was made that was not caught.... until now.... 
My apologies! 
Otherwise we tend to be a bit more conservative simply because, we know that in poor holding ground (silt) you easily loose 70% of holding power or more.... so for you to use Mantus for an all around anchor we have to envelope worst situations and still provide secure bite for 50 knots.... This is not an exact science... We took our values for when the anchor performed the worst (i.e loose mud) and looked at the table attached plus 20% margin.
Use the table attached...
So Alex lets use your example:
28 foot boat 10,000 and we use a 25lbs Mantus.... this anchor sets in hard bottom to excess of 5000lbs, in poor holding bottom we get numbers of 1200lbs. In winds of 60 knots we expect a load on the anchor between 980-1400 lbs for your boat, so a 25 lbs Mantus might pull out...!?
These numbers are not particular to the Mantus, its true of all anchors, bottom type decides everything... there are anchors designed to handle these soft bottoms, Fortress set to 45 degrees.... SuperMax...etc
But if you make Mantus an all around anchor we want you to be safe regardless of bottom in winds up to 50 knots.... without having to rely on an auxiliary anchor...
This analysis assumes constant loads due to the wind, it does not adjust for shock loads from waves in the Harbor and gusts.... which can easily double the expected loads. (In a storm conditions like this I will always use more than one anchor)
So if you are going cruising and are planning weathering bad weather at anchor a 35 lbs Mantus is not at all unreasonable. You have to understand very little science addresses this very issue, but practical past knowledge of sailing community drives much of these recommendations.... The biggest issue is that the bottom decides everything, and "it" is not predictable nor can it be objectified for all the different places you might visit...
We get drastically different numbers for maximum holding and setting ability with changing weather in exactly the same location....
ok I lost where I was headed with all this.... Except that you caught a mistake...


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

This is the ABYC chart for your reference, some have suggested its too conservative..... but for arguments sake .... lets assume this is real....


----------



## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Thanks for rechecking your numbers and realizing that the chart has a mistake. 

I have a 7000lb (empty) boat, I'm guessing that the maximum cruising weight would be closer to 9000lbs than 10000lbs. This is a very typical ~30ft cruiser/racer with similar weight and windage to a C&C 30, Islander 30, C&C 29, Yankee 30, CAL 2-29, etc. I would expect that this is a very common class of boat that you make anchor recommendations for.

Based on the ABYC chart and your numbers (1200lbs in a loose bottom for the 25lb Mantus) it sounds like the 25lb Mantus is just fine.


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

No Alex, thank you for pointing it out!
Greg


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Argyle38 said:


> This might not be the right thread, but this one seems to be the active one at the moment. My question for the OP is; how important is the roll-bar to holding strength and setting?
> 
> I have a boat with a bowsprit and my current anchor is a CQR that has the typical configuration of the fluke hanging below the bow platform and the shank extends through the platform. The other modern types of anchors with roll bars won't fit under my bowsprit, so I'm not interested in those as a primary anchor.
> 
> ...


This is an interesting question, that we get a lot... Roll-bar does not affect stting ability... In-fact, it can be used without the roll-bar, there is a possibility of the anchor flipping upside down after hitting a rock for example in such case the anchor will not set and the roll-bar protects against such event...
I have used the anchor for a year with 100% success rate on setting without the roll-bar....
Roll-bar only serves this function, flips the anchor into the correct orientation. It was an earlier prototype, before we decided to put the roll bar on.....


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

RobGallagher said:


> Yes, and I came darn close to buying one. At the time there was not as much info and I was suspect of spending my $$ on a newer product so I purchased a Manson Supreme. It didn't fit well on my roller so I returned it and got a Rocna. If I had to do it all over again I might buy a Mantus. That does not change my argument that Mantus has not proven that it holds any better or worse than a Manson or a Rocna.
> 
> I would buy Mantus because it probably holds just as well as the other two and it's priced well. The disassemble feature is nice, but once I put it together I doubt I would ever take it apart so that's a non-issue for me.


Well both Rocna and Manson Supreme are good solid anchors... and to prove advantage we need to challenge the anchor.... short scope, hard bottoms...
The aim was to make videos that are easy to watch and are catchy...The aim is to market... Having said that the results are real and unedited... I can provide you personally with hours of footage.... but it does not make for a good promotional video...

We achieve significantly higher holding power in hard bottoms:


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Mantus has a very interesting marketing approach. Probably cutting edge.
> My big question about this anchor is the dissimilar metals in the bolts and crevice corrosion for when the anchor is left assembled permanently. Have these been tested? Wet, salt water, low oxygen environment between those sandwiched pieces could theoretically take the inside of those ss bolts apart, while the heads look brand new. Mantus, have you done tests on this?


Galvanized Steel Anchor
The bolts on the galvanized anchor are galvanized steel bolts. We provide lubricant for assembly to prevent seizing on future nut removal. Rusting begins only in areas where galvanization is lost. The bolt's body is not exposed to rubbing, so the galvanization layer stays intact. When the anchor starts to show significant signs of rust, bolts should be inspected.
Just like any other anchor when it starts rusting compromising integrity...

Stainless Steel
Our stainless steel anchors come with 316SS fasteners


----------



## Bambolera (Nov 19, 2012)

Which size do you recommend for a Westsail 32? A large 32 at 20,000 lbs. I plan to use the anchor without the hoop. Will that change the weight much? Should I move up to the 45 lb.?


----------



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Mantus Anchors said:


> Galvanized Steel Anchor
> The bolts on the galvanized anchor are galvanized steel bolts. We provide lubricant for assembly to prevent seizing on future nut removal. Rusting begins only in areas where galvanization is lost. The bolt's body is not exposed to rubbing, so the galvanization layer stays intact. When the anchor starts to show significant signs of rust, bolts should be inspected.
> Just like any other anchor when it starts rusting compromising integrity...
> 
> ...


Thanks. I see I was mistaken about the dissimilar metals in the anchor.

However, have you done testing on crevice corrosion for the ss model, if left permanently bolted? How is the galvanized bolt not exposed to rubbing? What takes up the load, are there pins?


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Bolts take up the load, but when assembled and fasteners are tight and greased there is little movement between the bearing surfaces, compared to the external part of the anchor that gets dragged on the sea floor. So the rust usually first appears on the nose of the anchor and then other external areas exposed to the sand paper effect of the sea bottom.

We have not done testing on the SS bolts for crevice corrosion. Though it will not be very different than corrosion involving a welded shank fluke attachment.... 
Remember a single bolt is enough to handle the maximum expected loads on the anchor... and there are four......


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Bambolera said:


> Which size do you recommend for a Westsail 32? A large 32 at 20,000 lbs. I plan to use the anchor without the hoop. Will that change the weight much? Should I move up to the 45 lb.?


Since this is a 32 foot boat and does not have the wind-age of a modern 20,000 lbs boat I am tempted to say 35 lbs will be ok, but then when it comes to shock loads the mass/momentum becomes really important, so a 45 lbs anchor is totally reasonable and if it were me that's what I would do.
What do you have now?
Greg


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Guys remember that we have a sponsorship program, if you are doing something cool,
Write us! there is a sponsorship link on the website....
Greg


----------



## Bambolera (Nov 19, 2012)

Mantus Anchors said:


> Since this is a 32 foot boat and does not have the wind-age of a modern 20,000 lbs boat I am tempted to say 35 lbs will be ok, but then when it comes to shock loads the mass/momentum becomes really important, so a 45 lbs anchor is totally reasonable and if it were me that's what I would do.
> What do you have now?
> Greg


The boat came with a 45 CQR, which I never liked much. I had the opportunity to sell it for full retail when visiting the Galapagos. Since then, I've been using my spare, a 33lb Spade . This anchor is amazing, but I still need another anchor (to replace my spare).

Since I haul it by hand, I like the lighter weight of the Spade. From my experience (out cruising for 11 years), when conditions require it, I just add scope and a second anchor, rigged in tandem, if necessary

I'm leaning towards the 35lb Mantus (role bar removed) for the primary and moving the Spade back to the bilge for a spare.


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Bambolera said:


> The boat came with a 45 CQR, which I never liked much. I had the opportunity to sell it for full retail when visiting the Galapagos. Since then, I've been using my spare, a 33lb Spade . This anchor is amazing, but I still need another anchor (to replace my spare).
> 
> Since I haul it by hand, I like the lighter weight of the Spade. From my experience (out cruising for 11 years), when conditions require it, I just add scope and a second anchor, rigged in tandem, if necessary
> 
> I'm leaning towards the 35lb Mantus (role bar removed) for the primary and moving the Spade back to the bilge for a spare.


Got it... Honestly I hate to say it, but I think you are better off leaving the Spade on the bow... Last thing you need is a failure to bite because the anchor flipped, its a rare event but possible without the roll-bar and can happen in the most inopportune time..... Spade is a very good anchor. The marginal advantage of the Mantus is offset when you have an anchor that does not right itself...
Just imagine a sloped bottom or a bump on a rock....
Greg


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Netters, meet us at Miami International Boat Show!
Booth 4022
_We will be raffling off 2000$ worth of Mantus Products and offering big discounts...._


----------



## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

Mantus Anchors said:


> This is an interesting question, that we get a lot... Roll-bar does not affect stting ability... In-fact, it can be used without the roll-bar, there is a possibility of the anchor flipping upside down after hitting a rock for example in such case the anchor will not set and the roll-bar protects against such event...
> I have used the anchor for a year with 100% success rate on setting without the roll-bar....
> Roll-bar only serves this function, flips the anchor into the correct orientation. It was an earlier prototype, before we decided to put the roll bar on.....


Sorry it's taken so long to ask a follow up question, but I've been away for much of the last few weeks and this topic slipped my mind.

My question is, wouldn't this occurrence (anchor flipping and not being able to dig in) be just as likely with a CQR or a Delta?


----------



## Mantus Anchors (Dec 13, 2011)

Sure thing, Delta and CQR often drag on their sides: Test Videos | MantusAnchors
But they have the possibility of setting, they are designed to dig in that orientation.

However, a Mantus or a Rocna or a Manson Supreme or a Bruce for that matter, if upside down are rendered useless... The Roll bar reorients the anchor into the right position for setting....

Given that Mantus has really wide ear tabs the likelihood of it flipping upside down is low, but exists... so we recommend to use the anchor with the roll bar and you will have a reliable and immediate SET in any terrain.
Greg


----------

