# [No title]



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I plan on dropping out of high school very soon and then I will get a full time job and just save up until I get afford a sailboat, but the only problem is once i get a sailboat and I am living on it, how will I make money for food, water, repairs, docking, gas, ect. Anyone have any suggestions?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Stay in school!!! I know that some others are going to contradict me, but for the record, sailing is not cheap. And believe it or not, some of that physics and math will come in handy when trying to figure out how much power you need for you to run the electrical systems on your boat, or perhaps getting a good job at a boatyard or marina. Or a good job elsewhere, and getting that fantastic boat...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I suggest you stay in High School and finish. While there, try to learn as much as you possibly can. Graduate and go to college. While there, try to learn as much as you can. The data is in, college grads earn significantly more money than those with only High School diplomas. If you are having a problem at your current school, speak to a counselor. Maybe they can get you placed in an alternative setting to get you past the problem. Gotta have bucks to own a boat. After all, many people say that " a boat is just a hole in the water that you throw money into".


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## jbarros (Jul 30, 2002)

sailing is cheap... by the standards of living on land. But as you pointed out, the cost of sailing is still more than can easily be generated from the boat. The demands it put on you make creating the income are alot greater than the discount in living you get. 

Stay in school. Find something you can do at a distance, or better yet, invest in income reality. (rental homes etc) and then go sailing. Or work at ports where you can find it, and spend your life on the hook and out of the harbors, eating fish, rice, and raman. 

Your call. 

-- James


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Im not going to stay in high school, I am suppose to be a senior and I will be in freshmen classes, it will take another 3 years to graduate, i would be 21 when i graduate. I read books on my own, i dont like being dictated opon by some lady or some facist.


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## ughmo2000 (Feb 12, 2003)

I can understand your situation. You might look into a GED though. They''ll let you work at your own pace, treat you as an adult, it''s easier, and takes less time.
With a GED you could go to trade school for diesel repair or refridgeration. Both trades would be in demand while out cruising.

I hated high school, went to 14, (5 in my senior year) but I graduated. Now I''ve got 3 degrees. Go figure!


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## pirateofcapeann (Aug 27, 2002)

If you can''t handle High School, there''s no way in hell you''re going to handle life on the water in this day and age. You''ve said it yourself, how are you going to pay for things? Why would anyone hire you if you can''t show the simple staying power of a high school education? There''s enough dummies out there now and we don''t need more. Do me a personal favor, if you do drop out, stay away from the boats!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well yes, i know high school is somewhat important, but just because I cannot handle sitting at a desk, doesnt mean that i cant handle life on the water. I mean that isnt really important, if im living at sea, it doesnt really matter if i have a diaploma or not, i was just trying to figure out ways to make money while i am out there, there are many criminal ways of making money (smuggling drugs, Cubans,ect) but i was just wondering about some different legal ways of making money out there.


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## jbarros (Jul 30, 2002)

First see if you can make a living on land. Then see if you can sail. Perhaps even get a job by the sea, so you can actualy spend some time on the water, while making a living and saving some. Then go from there.

Being able to sit at a desk and take something you dont want to is perhaps the biggest skill you will need, at least to make it through to the point where you dont have to. Of course, if you keep asking, and everyone keeps giving you the same answer, and you dont like it, they must all be wrong.

-- James


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## Stede (Jun 13, 2002)

Jeffamc,

I understand you wanting to quit school.I spent several years in vain trying to convince my oldest son not to drop out.He eventually did anyway.After being out a couple of years,he found out how tough it was making a living.He became frustrated that the only work he could get was minimal paying jobs,or very hard physical jobs.He decided to go back to school and get his GED.After getting it,he joined the Army.While in the Army,he''s excelled at everything he''s done and is now in the process of trying out for the special forces.Looking back on it now,I really believe my son was just bored with school.He''s super smart and I think he really just wasn''t being challenged in school in areas that were of interest to him.My advice to you is along the same lines as what I believe someone else has already mentioned to you. Get your GED,and then at least learn a trade.If you''re mechanically inclined,you might want to consider learning about diesels.A good diesal mechanic can make good pay anywhere in the world.Refrigeration on boats is also a great trade to learn that will produce good money.Get some of Nigel Calders books.The books are very good on all aspects of boat maintenance and repair.They might help you decide what type of trade would be good for you.For what you said you want to do,it seems that the ideal situation for you would be to find work at a boat yard with a tech.school close by.I hope I''ve helped you generate some ideas. Good luck!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I''m an English teacher in a public school. I may be able to add a bit of light here.

I agree with Stede. Some very smart young people just don''t fit well in a traditional school setting.
And saying that is not an excuse for quitting-for-quitting''s-sake. Others in this thread have pointed out the unalterable truth that the ability to endure unpleasant tasks, to perservere through difficult situations, and to delay your gratification builds the essential character trait of maturity that replaces the impulsiveness and selfishness of childhood and yields the kind of adults that we all want in a civilized world. I will summarize that sentiment as "You will discover that life is hard; and people without some kind of education don''t advance as far, as a rule, as those who have one." That idea is well-received, and can be counted as Wisdom that All Young People Should Heed.

Having said all that, Stede is also right when he stresses that (given that you are adamant about leaving the public schools, and just as adamant about cruising to far places) learning a trade (which I submit is a kind of eduction) that will be in demand in the cruising community will be essential, and diesel and refrigeration skills top the list. I''m sure that if Robin Lee Graham had those skills, he wouldn''t have had to dig through a trash heap for a pair of boots that would allow him to work at the power plant in Darwin just to finance the next leg of his circumnavigation. Working with tools and skills is better than working with back and arms.

By the way, get a copy of his book, Dove, which is still a classic for young sailors filled with wanderlust.

It''s also been expressed in this thread that many young people who are frustrated in school discover that they are actually capable students once they are learning something they have a reason to learn. Motivation is a powerful conditioner of behavior.

In concert with your parents and your counselor, you might aim at the completetion of the GED diploma. If this is going to be your senior year, and you are very far behind in credits, using this year preparing for the GED exam may be more productive than trying to make up credits toward a conventional HS diploma. Everyone''s situation is unique, but approaching your folks with a well thought-out plan that they can see the reason in could be a good first step.

Good Luck to you.
Jeff


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## eds928gt (Sep 28, 2001)

As I told my kids when they were thinking of dropping-out: "Go ahead, the world needs ditch-diggers too."

As it turned out, my oldest did, but within four months she was attending evening classes to get her GED. She now admits, mom and dad were right when we told her how tough it was to live without a HS diploma. Heck, it''s not much easier with one, but at least it can get you a decent job, from which you might be able to move upward.

Like you, she didn''t care for the school structure and she didn''t like many of her teachers. However, she soon found out that the "school of hard-knocks" had even worse teachers, and the care-free (do it at your own pace) structure was hard to continue for an extended period of time. As it turns out, she finally settled down (grew up) and earned her GED and then a BA.

Hopefully, you too will grow up. However, if not, be prepared to do menial jobs (like cleaning out holding tanks, scrubbing and painting boat bottoms, and other jobs that aren''t particularly challenging) for a very long time, or at least till a younger dummy comes along. Be careful, cause he/she may replace you, and you may not even get hired for the lousy jobs you did before.

No one said getting an education is easy. Also, no one said good jobs are easy to find. Ever wonder why the good jobs usually get taken by folks with an education? It''s usually because they''ve proved they could stick it out to get that higher education. That usually translates to "They have proved worthy of holding the better (high-paying) job." Whether that true or not doesn''t matter. That what most employers think, and that''s what really matters.

Back when I was in the Navy, I saw lots of poorly educated folks working on the ship. They were hard working guys without which the Navy would come to an abrupt halt. As hard working as they were, they were kept busy doing menial work and were never asked to make meaniful decisions. That was probably fine by them, as they probably didn''t think they could anyway. They were happy to be getting three squares a day, and a place to sleep. For them, what more was there to life? As the saying goes, "Ignorance is bliss."

Well it sounds like you currently think "Ignorance is bliss." I hope for your sake it will be true. However, I sorry to tell you, but the odds are stacked way against you. In any event, I wish you the best of luck - cause (IMO) you''ll need it.

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hindsight has told me that school is more about classes and grades. It''s also a time to begin to develop more sophisticated interpersonal and communication skills. It''s a time to mature as well. 

This isn''t something that can be rushed, and it is something that will affect you, for better or worse, for the rest of your life.

Finish HS or the GED. How old will you be three years from now if you don''t (hint: same age as if you do, but without the diploma).


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Lest anyone suspect otherwise, I can spell "education"&#8230;
(Even English teachers make typos) =:0


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Lest anyone suspect otherwise, I can spell "education"&#8230;
(Even English teachers make typos) =:0


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## pirateofcapeann (Aug 27, 2002)

You can say that again!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Author: Jeffamc 
I plan on dropping out of high school very soon and then I will get a full time job and just save up until I get afford a sailboat, but the only problem is once i get a sailboat and I am living on it, how will I make money for food, water, repairs, docking, gas, ect. Anyone have any suggestions? 
_____________________________________________

If you consider what you have to offer to an employer in the way of useful skills, how much do you think an employer would be willing to pay for those skills?

When you consider your costs to do the job; clothes, travel, meals, tools, etc., how much money do you expect to bring home?

After you meet your living expenses, how much will be left over to save for your boat? How many years will it take for you to accumulate $5,000? $10,000? $20,000? 

On his twenty-fifth birthday, every young man looks into the mirror and sees his reflection, and a lot more. He also sees what he has accomplished in his life. At this point, many young men smile and say, "I''m off to a great start and my future is looking good." Too many others scowl and complain that life is tough and they can''t get a break. They realize that the decisions they made have hurt them in so many ways, but they try to shift the blame elsewhere -- their parents were at fault, the schools were no good, the teachers didn''t care, the guys they hung out with were just losers. But the world knows where th blame lies.

To a great extent, the only thing that separates these two groups is their level of education.

By this time, all are pretty much set in their ways and won''t change. And neither will the road to their future. 

Forget, for a moment, where you are now and ask yourself where you would want to be at age 25. If you will be content to remain on the lowest rungs of the economic ladder with little hope of rising, then do exactly what you wrote in your post. If, on the other hand, you want more than that, then you have to prepare yourself for it. 

You cannot possibly know how difficult life is for folks who are undereducated. As someone once observed, "Every day, it gets tougher to make a buck."

Do yourself a favor. Look around and see the difference between those who took education seriously and those who didn''t. Then get off your butt, get the lead out, stop moaning, and start taking education seriously.

As someone already pointed out, no matter how you slice it, three years from now, you''ll be 21 without a diploma. With the right kind of effort, you could be 21 with a diploma.

You must have noticed that no one has supported your decision to deliberately become less than you can be. In different ways, everyone has encouraged you to be the best that you can be. 

Look around. Are those who make it through high school any better than you? Do you really think that you are inferior to them?

Remember, you''re the one who makes the decisions that effect your life.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Jeffamc,

I think you are very lucky. You have gotten some EXCELLENT advice from every one who has answered you. Stay in school, if possible, or learn a good trade: electrician, plumber, diesel mechanic. I''m in middle-age now and and have seen friends say things just like you have.

Some of them have gotten their act together, gone to school, worked hard and worked their way up. I don''t know anyone who can''t say that they wish they had gotten a better education. These people worked very, very hard to get to the point in life where they can enjoy the prosperity that most people do enjoy in this country; a car, a house, a wife and kids--well-fed and happy, TVs, CD players, backyards.

Others have rebelled at the system and gotten angry when they find themselves at 45 years old and can''t afford to keep their cars running and no one wants to help them because they tired of bailing out someone who refuses to manage his own life properly.

You said, "I read books on my own, i dont like being dictated opon by some lady or some facist." I know what you''re saying, but life in a port has more to do with obeying authority that you may think. If this country is tough, remember that out there governments can be very fickle towards you and very uncaring and very, very corrupt. And if you even begin to consider relying on criminal behavior, such as smuggling, as an acceptable means of keeping your life of freedom on the water, you must know up front that you may have to pay a penalty far greater than being dictated upon by some lady or facist. Many countries are very big on prisons and have no public defenders office.

Don''t waste you chances at a life of happiness. Stay in school, or at least get a good trade. You''ll be happy you did.

Best of fortunes to you,
Chas


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## dagerman (Aug 6, 2003)

Jeffamc

I''m sure I dropped out of high school for the same reasons you are. You are not challenged by the classes, you have a counselor that is advising you to do things that don''t make sense... But I also spent 10 years trying to catch up to my peers. At almost 40 years old I have achieved the level of accomplishment that I would have at 30. I know you don''t want to hear it, but suck it up, stay in school and then re-evaluate. You''ll look back 20 years from now and realize how easy it was.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

to. thefantasea 


well said.. 

thats all I have to add...

J & J


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## pirateofcapeann (Aug 27, 2002)

Here’s a plan. This is what I’d do if I could do it all over again.

Number One: Stay in school. Believe me, it’s worth it. Deal with the BS and put it behind you. I’ll let the other’s advice make it clear on that part.

Number Two (and I’ll be blunt): Keep your dick in your pants! Weekly payments of court ordered child support will mess up your plans for at least 18 years. Compound that with a lack of education and you’ll never go sailing!

Number Three: This may sound dumb taking into account the reason for this thread, but after you’ve graduated high school, you should do a hitch in the military. It doesn’t matter what branch, the Marines would probably be your best choice to fit your later plans. There’s plenty of adventure and you’ll gain a lot both mentally and physically. The veteran’s benefits will be a big help to you after your tour and it will open some important doors for you that would otherwise remain closed.

Once you’ve done this, you’ll be around 21 or 22, take a backpack and sleeping bag and hike up into the mountains for a couple of weeks. Now that you have prepared yourself for the future, you can meditate on which of the many roads you want your life to take, and if sailing is still your choice, we’d welcome you into the brotherhood with open arms.

So, being a sailor starts today. Staying in school is what you, the sailor, should do.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

pirate

I never thought we would see anything with such total agreement. You were ver elequent I hope this young man will take our advice and become a man before he makes sailing his total life. Not that he still can''t sail he will have summers and (Dang that military idea is great) 30 days leave a year. His life won''t end staying in school it is just begining.


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## sailstactics (Jul 14, 2003)

Hear this : 
The size of your sailboat is directly related to the level of your education.

Stay in school.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Jeffamc,

Looks like you touched nerve amoung boaters, Jeff, but you haven''t answered in almost 2 weeks. Are you out there?

Chas


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I believe that Jeffamc has last posted on the "drugs" thread trying to come up with novel ways to outwit the DEA, Coast Guard and other authorities. I didn''t pick up on it at first,but I believe that he also started that thread on what would happen if you brought drugs into foreign ports...
I guess he doesn''t REALLY want any constructive advice...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

oh im here, yea thanks for all your advice. I got a job yeasterday at kfc(even though i stoped eating meat a few months ago, now im gonna be cooking it, oh well, its a job). But i will be saving money and trying not to spend much. School, yea i know, i should finish it, its just that im far behind and all my friends are going to be graduating, this year and i will still be there for a few years if i dont quit, it just depresses me. But i look at it, i will be saving money at kfc, then i will get a better job somewhere because i will be 18 in a few months and be able to save more-pumping gas or delivering pizza''s, ect. suppose i was saving $250 a week thats $12,000 a year so in a few years like when im 21-22 years old i could get a decent sailboat mabey a 27-32footer that is good for coastal and offshore cruising. i could probably find someone that will chip in some or at least just go with me.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

There are some good sailboats that are good for coastal and bluewater cruising- well if u were just with 1 other person, on YachtWorld right now i see=
Tartan 27 1974- $14,900
Tartan 28 1984- $31,500
Tartan 30 1973- $20,000
Sabre 28 1981- $29,900
Sabre 30 MK1 1979- $32,000
Pearson Triton 27 1984- $14,900
Pearson Triton 28 1965- $11,800
Morgan 27 1976- $12,000
Nor''Sea 27 1977- $27,500


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Just for the record, neither the 1984 Triton 27 nor the 1976 Morgan 27 are suitable for offshore use. The 1984 Triton was a lightly built coastal cruiser that traded on the good name of the original Triton. The 1976 Morgan 27 was an IOR race boat. I raced on these when they were comparatively new and while good race boats for their day, they never were intended or suitable for offshore use. While a lot of blue water sailing has been done in the original Tritons, these boats never were all that great as offshore cruiers, and they are all approaching 40 years of age and were not all that well built to begin with.

I became a vegetarian when I was roughly your age and have been one for 36 years now. Good move! Maybe we can at least get you out sailing. Where in the US do you live? 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Massachuestts, on the rhode island border


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## Seagypsywoman (Aug 28, 2001)

I have a 26 foot International Folkboat that''s a great boat for someone young (no head room). Full, cut away keel, has crossed oceans, Two of us have sailed her in the Sea of Cortez, Mexico in everything from 1 knot of wind to 35.


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## Seagypsywoman (Aug 28, 2001)

Jeff,
Mark Twain said, "Don''t let schooling get in the way of your education." 
I know a man who dropped out of college at 21 and has never looked back. He is now 43, and still traveling. He''s been around the world six times on boats and by a Land Rover. He''s lived with the Eskimos and the Mayans. He left home with $50 I think, hitchhiked, slept in ditches for awhile, and sometimes had been extremely lucky that he didn''t get picked up by some pervert and killed. 
He has NO regrets. For money, he''s driven trucks and buses, he''s worked on large farm machinery, picked fruit and bought and sold cars to make a profit. He buys whatever he can afford really cheap and then sells it when he can get more money for it. (NOT DRUGS).
My advice is: follow your heart and do what you want to. You can always change your mind.
If you can make your way to La Paz, Mexico you can live on my sailboat there in exchange for keeping it clean and varnished until she sells, which could be months or years. I''m not there, but lots of my friends are. I will tell them about you, they will help you. You don''t have to work illegaly, just trade your skills for food. All you need is a place to live and food. Good luck. You will one day inspire others as your contribution to the world. The world needs more people like you.
Barb
By the way, I wish I had the guts to do what you''re wanting to do at your age and didn''t waste my life sitting in school and joining the rat-race. I am now still sailing, varnishing boats, sewing and writing to support my lifestyle.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks Seagypsywoman, you seem to be the first person that does not think that without a high school diaploma you are nothing, thats just an illusion that many people have, yea mabey u cant get into the army, marines, ect but who wants to do that ****, I really do not care alot about a good job, minimum wage is about $6.70/hr, so if u work enough for a few years, can get a good sailboat. Life is alot eaiser then parents, teachers, other forms of authority try to make it sound. My parents are always saying, you must finish high school and go to college so that you will be able to get a nice house, car in your life. But I dont really care about "nice" cars, houses ect, just so long as i am still alive, i will be fine. I dont care to have a Ferrari and everyday drive by all the homeless people. The class system, government, countries, wars, ect are all just huge illusions that are apart of this society that is just a delisuion.
hmmm sorry to sound like some preacher


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## Magic_Moments (May 15, 2003)

Consider Albin Vega 27 for a boat that has a great reputation, and also Alberg 30 is sort of an enlarged Folkboat with standing headroom if you are under 6 feet tall, but made of fibreglass. 
You should be able to buy either of them for under $20k or less if you get one that needs a lot of work, but then you have to do the work and spend the money to fix and replace all the things that need to be repaired or upgraded for offshore work. Expect to spend around $5000 to $10,000 for that work and gear for your cruise. Plan on $1000 for a used inflatable and outboat and learn to rebuild that outboard. You will need it when you are cruising. I roll mine up and stow it in my quarter berth so I don''t have to drag it or try walking around it on deck.

I lived in Connecticut in the seventies and I remember it was pretty cold in the winter and everyone hauled their boats out. I bet you can live on it in the summer if the marina allows it, but I bet no yard will let you in the winter, so I hope you can live at home or whereever you are now until you are nearly ready to go. I don''t know what moorage rates are on the east coast, but on the west coast in Washington, you will pay around $160 to $300 per month for a 30 foot slip plus electricity and a liveaboard fee if they have one.

If you can go sailing before you buy the boat definately do that as much as possible. Look for a boat somewhere where you could live on it year around so you can do all the work it needs and save money. I don''t know, but would guess that might be from the Chesapeake Bay area on down to Florida. You can get a job in that area and stay on the boat.

If you can stick to your plan and save money, it will be great and I will admire your focus and you will have lots of fun. It will be hard work, but working for what you want is fun. I would also suggest getting the GED somewhere along the line. I have some friends that dropped out and all eventually did go and get the GED.

Ken


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

With all due respect the Alberg 30 is the antithesis of a Folkboat in almost everyway. The Folkboat began like as an offshore cruiser that could be raced. The Alberg 30 started life as a CCA era racing rule beater. This had enormous impact on the design of the two boats. 

The Folkboat (at least in its original form) had an easy to single hand fractional rig (or a small jib big mainsail proportion on the later masthead rigged versions), and a very easily driven hull with a long waterline. The Folkboats were quite light for their day (4200-4700 lbs), have a nearly 50% ballast ratio and have a narrow beam. This results in a very easily driven hull and that easily driven hull really makes sense in a blow offshore where you can snug down to an hankerchief and still make good progress to windward. Folkboats have outboard rudders which allow the use of reliable, inexpensive, easily to home build, trimtab servo type windvanes. The Folkboats have about as large a range of positive stability as can be concieved of (generally quoted in the 160 degree range.) Their narrow waterline and nearly full length keel means that they track very well but my experience with these wonderful boats if that their generous rudder size allows them to be quite maneuverable as well and makes them capable of be cruised without an engine. But all of that sweetness comes with the price that they are cramped down below, a tiny cockpit, and have comparatively small carrying capacities. 

On the other hand, as a result of the CCA racing rule, Alberg has an exceptionally short waterline and a rig that depends on huge foresails. Neither of these are good characteristics for offshore cruising. They tend to hobbyhorse and get stopped dead in a chop. By comparison, the Alberg sailing on a typically quoted 8" longer waterline length than a Folkboat is nearly twice the weight (9200 lbs) and but has only 400 lbs more ballast. It is 25% beamier, and by the classic definition of a fin keel, is a fin keeled boat with an attached rudder. The A30''s less than easily driven hull when combined with the comparatively low ballast ratio makes these harder boats to sail in a blow. On the other hand they are more tollerant of carrying a lot more ''stuff''. With their poor tracking ability, and comparatively large weather helm, they require a powerful manufactured windvane or an electronic autopilot. Albergs do have much larger interiors and cockpits. because they are still raced in places like the Chesapeake, you can sometimes find perfectly serviceable used sails that are fine for cruising but no longer suitable for the race course. 

The Alberg in racing form, with large crews are typically 15 to 21 seconds a mile faster but in cruising form without the wieght of a large crew on the A30''s rail, the Folkboat should offer pretty similar performance. 

These boats really represent two extremely different approaches to cruising and all that they share in common is that they are both old designs (although the Folkboat design is 20 years older than the Alberg)

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## Magic_Moments (May 15, 2003)

There are a lot of Folkboats around the San Francisco area and they sell around $10k to $15k and most are masthead rigged. People like it there for its ability to carry sail in wind. I think the PHRF is 228 with an outboard and the A30 is 220. I am not a fan of long overhangs, but in a lot of 60''s and earlier boats, thats what you get.
The Alberg 30''s in the $15k range sometimes have gas engines which I also don''t like. A boat in my marina blew up last week when the owner turned on a shopvac in his bilge.

I understood that a group of Folkboat owners commisioned Alberg to design the Alberg 30 and some 900 were built. I see them listed with a waterline of 21''8" compared to the Folkboat listed at 19''8", but I don''t know how accurate that is. I believe "Practical Sailor" had a review of the A30 also.

They are just 2 of the hundreds or thousands of boats that people have sailed around the world in and can be bought for less than a kings ransom.

Ken


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

It is my understanding that Henry Walton (H. Walton and Company)of Annapolis approached Alberg and Whitby about producing a 30 foot CCA race boat and the result was the Alberg 30. Henry was a boat importer who had boats built to his specifications in Canada and Holland. Henry also imported a neat version of a modified Folkboat that had a small doghouse in addition to the trunk cabin. (One of these just sold for $3,500 in Annapolis with a diesel engine.) I believe that the story that the Alberg 30 was initiated by a group of Folkboat owners emerged from the fact that Henry Walton was already importing Folkboats.

Jeff


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## Magic_Moments (May 15, 2003)

That is one thing that always bugs me. Boats here seem to always list and sell for more than boats in other places. I have a theory or two as to why, but I could be completely wrong.

I got that information about Folkboat owners and Alberg from a book by John Vigor, so I don''t know anything about its accuraccy myself. 

Ken


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## magnusmurphy (Jul 7, 2000)

In this day and age, anybody who has the ability to get an education, and doesn''t do it, is a frigin IDIOT!

FINISH SCHOOL! The three or so years you may have to put your inflated ego on hold, will be the best investment you can make in yourself

M Murphy


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Dear Jeff A. Mc(whoever you are):

I am not going to tell you to stay in school. You can learn about life and about yourself and about the world in other ways.

I am going to recommend that you consider taking a job on a sailing vessel. That way, you can earn the low pay and work the long hours you would enjoy at KFC, but will be doing it in an environment where you can learn a lot. You can learn, for example, whether you are really cut out to be a sailor. You can learn what is really involved in sailing/cruising. Not just the romantic stuff, but the practical stuff, like navigation, maintenance, cooking, and cleaning out the head when it jambs.

If you really are serious about wanting to sail for life, here''s your challenge. Contact one of these outfits (or ask around for other suggested boats) and apply for an opening level position. There are many applicants and few slots available, but you will have the advantage (since you are leaving school) of being available for a full cruising season instead of just summer vacation.

http://www.schooneryacht.com/help.html

http://www.mysticwhaler.com/crew_positions.htm

http://www.mainewindjammercruises.com/joincrew.cfm

BE FOREWARNED: The men and women who captain these ships are engaged in a serious business, and they are not likely to suffer fools gladly. They are usually willing to share their knowledge and experience with apprentices who have a true desire to become sailors (not just pipe dream sailors), but if you are a goof-off, cocksure, or lazy shirker type, they will put you ashore with bus fare home at the first opportunity.

Live long, and prosper.

Allen Flanigan
Alexandria, VA


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## jbarros (Jul 30, 2002)

That is absolutley the coolest thing I''ve ever seen. Are you familiar with anything like this on the West coast? Thank you very much. 

-- James


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

There are two responses that swell up within me as I read about your plan to drop out and your life plan. First is your one of the dumbest kids I have ever encountered with arragence that superceeds your stupidy. You think you know it all. Where have you been working over the summer for the past couple of years while in school go and see if they will hire you back full time. Second has mom and dad been furnishing you with shelter, food and clothing all for free probably. I don''t think your in for a tough sail through life I know your in for many a huricane in life''s sea alone.
My second response is who can I communicate to you how you are on the edge of the clif contemplating jumping into the obis. All these respondents want to help but your sticking your nose up at them. This decision will linger in your life forever. If you choose to do the foolish thing and quit and you find that life is using you as a door mat which it will and you want to change that don''t be afraid to go and get your GED. It will be a start on altering your course in life. 

Al


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

yea, sorry i seem to preach sometimes. But to me the sailing life does not seem all that hard. I mean there is not constant work and a boss,ect. It is not that expensive, unless you make it expensive(buying a expensive large boat, buying things you dont need, useing alot of fuel, ect). There is less sickness and desease. It does not appear to me as a extreamly hard lifestyle. I think working in a factory for your entire life, or being a buisness man for your entire life would be alot more stressful and cause alot of pain in your life. Almost everyone i know is going to college, military or at least graduating. I just see work, money, materialism, greed, ect as just illusions. I really dont want much, i dont have many desires, like owning a nice car, nice house, ect. Without a Diaploma you can still work at some places(making min wage of course) or you could just work under the table jobs(like many people just need laborers for there small buisness) but still you are making money and could buy a decent boat after a few years of saving up.
It really dont cost much after that if your living on your boat. theres the cost of food, repairs, docking(or just use anchorages), fuel(some people sail engineless on 20-30 footers), there is not really much other costs if you have already bought solar panels, GPS, VHF.
alot of the problems in life are just made by people that make them problems, Buddhist monks dont have many problems and they are mostly poor with nothing.


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## eds928gt (Sep 28, 2001)

I think you need to do a complete "cost of sailing" analysis. I suspect you are grossly under-estimating the costs associated with sailing. The cost of the boat is only a small part of what it''ll cost to go sailing. Even a well maintained boat will require major repairs at some point (hopefully, later rather than sooner).

Good food (meaning good nutrition) is not easy to accomplish for extended cruises, and is usually not cheap either. Health will play a big factor as you age. Even routine hygene can become costly if you don''t take good care of your teeth, skin, feet, etc.

Finding work may at first seem easy, so long as you don''t expect much. However, there may come a time when you won''t be able to find work, or your body won''t allow you to do work you were once able to do (e.g. - arthritis, weaker muscles, etc.)

You sound a bit selfish and naive. You come accross as someone who wants it now, but you don''t want to put in the effort to get it the way it normally done, meaning studying, graduating, working hard, meeting your responsibilities to society, then saving, then enjoying the fruits of your labor.

BTW, about 35 years ago, I was in your situation. I chose to graduate from H.S., join the Navy, get some training, take advantage of the GI Bill and go to college to get a B.S. and then a M.S. Then I gott a good paying job, save up for the things we needed and wanted.

As of now, we owe about $30k on the house, we''ve put two kids through college, own our boat and all our cars and furniture, and still have plenty of time to enjoy the fruits of our labor. If I had to do it again, I wouldn''t change a thing.

The choice is yours. You can do what you''ve said so far, or you can try to do it my way.

Good luck and happy sails to you ~ _/) ~


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## magnusmurphy (Jul 7, 2000)

I can Promise you this Jeff:

In about 10-15 years time (if you continue on the foolish plan you seem intent on following), you''ll think back on this discussion and you will cry into your pillow.

I don''t doubt it for one minute. You''ll realize that you''ve made the biggest mistake possible.

Even the most mundane of jobs in todays world require an education. You however, will be competing with the billions of uneducated people from everywhere. Whereas they however did not have the opportunities to get an education, that knowledge will have inspired in them a drive to excell in other ways. You however, having thrown away the one advantage you were undeservedly born with, will have aquired:
laziness
arrogance
stupidity
undiciplinedness
naivite
immaturity

These attributes that appear to fit you like a glove, will surely help you find your just deserve in life''s continuous struggle.

My opinion

MM


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Magnusmurphy you said that i am stupid and "you''ll think back on this discussion and you will cry into your pillow." but why, could you or someone eles tell me why i am going to make a huge mistake? I am looking at it like i will save alot of money, buy a inexpensive sailboat(under $40,000) 27-40ft. Put atleast $10,000 in the bank, then after that i will be able to sail. Find some odd jobs when the $10,000 runs out. I am not really seeing the huge mistake in this. If it is a smaller boat u wont need as much fuel, even some people go engineless- thats a HUGE savings. Then other then that its just paying for food, mabey docking or use anchorages, and then paying for other governmental rip offs. It just looks like a easy life to me, i mean my father graduated from high school and became a machinist- he hated it it was hell to him worked for the company for 25 years. My brother graduated from high school and does masonary- he hates it. Alot of famous people are high school dropouts actors, scientists, inventors, musicians, ect. The criminal lifestyle does not require a highschool diapolma, its just the chance of going to prison for 1-100 years makes it not a good idea. Im looking at sailing as just a good life style, i think its better then working as a full time laborer for some corporation. If I am sounding very immature and naive to whomever is reading this, reply and knock common sense into me.


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## Magic_Moments (May 15, 2003)

The Lady Washington is one boat on the west coast that uses volunteer crew each summer. They are based in Aberdeen, but this next week they will be in Port Townsend at the wooden boat festival.
Lady Washington is a replica of the first American ship to sail in Washington I think, but anyone who has seen the Pirates of the Carribean movie saw the Lady Washington and her crew as it was repainted and sailed to be in the movie last year.

Also there are some people who do not use engines here in Bellingham. One I saw used oars in his 28 foot boat that was about 7500lbs displacement. I have some reservations about depending on oar power in some of the currents around here. Not to mention useing sweeps in a tight marina environment, but if you picked your days to sail and stayed out anchored, it could work.

Ken


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## Stede (Jun 13, 2002)

Jeffamc,

I don''t think you sound immature,or naive.It sounds like you know what you want to me.That''s a good thing.So many people never know what they want.If I were your age,I would probably be doing the same thing you''re doing,but I would be doing it after I finished high school,and college,or a tech.school.The reason being,is that I basically don''t like having to work any harder than I have to. The first job I got after graduating high school was working for a roofing company.The work was hot,dangerous,and grueling.The next job I got wasn''t much better.After a couple of more back breakers,I decided to go back to school.I went to a technical college,graduated,and moved from back breaking work to a lot better pay and working conditions.It was that one move that enabled me to make the kind of money to do the kind of things I wanted to do--sail,and travel.It enabled me to charter boats in various locations in the world,buy the 26 foot boat I have now, and accumulate the savings I have now for my next bigger boat.The list goes on,but I think you get the idea.I think your way will work,but it will be that--work.As you''ve pointed out,crime doesn''t pay,so the only other thing that leaves is mundane,low paying,and hard physical jobs.As long as you can accept that,you''ll be o.k.It will take you longer to save to buy your boat,longer to save the money to live the dream,and longer to build up any kind of savings for retirement for after you can no longer sail.I''m sure there are others that have done it though.I have two sons a little older than you.Reading your comments remind me a lot of the things they used to say.I tried to tell them the same things I''m telling you,but they wouldn''t listen.They had to do it their way.They paid the price by the sweat of their brow.They saw the writing on the wall and eventually made some decisions that changed their lives for the better. They turned out o.k.,and I''m sure you will too. Good luck with your plans,and dreams.


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## bubb2 (Nov 9, 2002)

Regards, It has been said that a wife and a steady job have been the ruin of more sailors than anything else. I would like you to consider some things before you cast off.

TVMDC, +W -E, Set & Drift, HMG, CMG, SMG, ETA, DEV, DR, FIX, T=D/S, Lat, Long.

Jeff, if you don''t know what i am talking about you will never get to where you want to go. 

You have to know this inside and out, forward and backwards and be able to do most of in your head.

My point is, that maybe a traditional high school is not right for you but in order to be a good sailor an education is essential. Check out some the "Sea school" programs, Navy and or Coast Guard. Please remember that the Buddhist monks don''t have solar panels and GPS, so if you want to go simple and cheap and keep your boat off the rocks. Please studying navigation as a start to your on water education.


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## eds928gt (Sep 28, 2001)

Let''s see if I can knock some sense into you.

First, $40k for a 27'' to 40'' boat seems fair, but may be a bit low for the upper range you''re considering. Even if you do find a 40'' boat for that price, it''ll probably need lots of TLC and major repairs, maybe needed sooner rather than later. :^(

Second, (IMO) a nest-egg of only $10k is woefully underfunded. One bad break (physical or mechanical) could cause you to go through that $10k in no time at all.

Third, I''m sorry to hear that your Dad and brother were not happy with the type of work they did. I''m sure that happens to many folks, but just in case you don''t know it "Life is Real". There are no guarantees that we''ll all have a pleasant one. The Preamble to the Constitution guarantees us "Life, Liberty, and the persuit of happiness..." That means you have the right to persue it, but it''s not gauranteed.

However, you are not your Dad or your brother. You may find work that is satisfying and rewarding. The chances of finding such a job increase geometrically as you increase your educational level. As you said, "there are lots of famous folks how have made it without a H.S. diploma." Well, I''ve got bad news for you - they are the exceptions to the rule. There are lots more (perhaps millions) who have made it big with a H.S. diploma.

Last, you totally ignor the fact that your health may not hold up over time. One bad fall or a bout with bad food and you could be layed-up for weeks - unable to work or worse, in a hospital with no way of paying for the care.

So let me ask you this - do you plan to be self sufficient, or do you plan to be a burden on society? BTW, if you don''t have a plan, then you''re likely going to be a burden on society. Since the rest of us think we will wind up supporting you, don''t be surprised that we think your ideas are poorly thought through.

Good luck (I think you''ll need plenty of it) and happy sails to you ~ _/) ~


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

[No message]


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Jeff--I am curious about one thing.How much sailing experience have you had? In all your posts, I read how you think that sailing will be an "easy" and "cheap" life. I don''t see anywhere that you LOVE sailing, or in fact have a passion about anything except complaining about how hard life is at the grand old age of 17-18. It sounds like perhaps your father and brother haven''t set fantastic examples, but here is a little fact: LIFE IS NOT EASY AND WE ALL HAVE ADVERSITIES in our lives. I won''t bore you with mine, but I rose above some rough times as a teenager; that''s called growing up. I have a teen-aged son, and have to prod him from time-to-time to not take the easiest route in school, to stretch himself to make the most of his abilites. I see him maturing, one step forward, sometimes two steps back, but he is beginning to realize that perhaps his parents ARE RIGHT and that sometimes the easiest way is not the best way in the long run. You are too young to limit your options. At least get your GED, and look into some trade like others have suggested. Perhaps you aren''t meant for Yale, but it doesn''t mean that you aren''t cut out for other training in a good field. Find your passion in life, and try to soar, not just get by.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

It''s time to let this young foo get his education. He will get obne weather it be in the classroom or out is what for his is bound to be a very cruel world. If he insists he should quit school and get a boat and take off. It''s a very expensive way to learn but it''s his life. Maybe when the world has taught him a few things he''ll be much more open to common sence.


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## jbarros (Jul 30, 2002)

I''ve been speaking with Jeff for over a year now. He''s still yet to set foot aboard a sailing vessle, although he lives 20 miles from the coast. but he''s young, and he IS smart, and he''s learning. He just questions EVERYTHING, which can be frustrating at times, but if you show him something concrete, he''ll listen.

When I originaly met him, he was going to drop out of highschool, never have a job, build a boat out of wood he found in the forest, and live on fish. 

Now he has a job, is saving money for a boat, and wants to live minimaly. 

Personaly, I think he should GET ON A BOAT!!!! and read Voyaging on a small income, everything by the Pardee''s, and the like, so he can understand whats involved in the type of minimalist sailing life he wants. It can be done on little income, (albeit not the interest on 10,000) but it takes discipline, hard work, and a special dedication. It''s best to learn this from working on boats, and doing small passages on other peoples dimes, on their boats, rather than trying to buy something you cant afford for something you dont know if you want to do, especialy when you dont have a clue how to do it. 

On happyness, I belive The good Mr. Leary said it best:

God.. "I''m just not happy. I''m just not happy. I''m just not happy because my life didn''t turn out the way I thought it would." Hey! Join the ****ing club, ok!? I thought I was going to be the starting center fielder for the Boston Red Socks. Life sucks, get a ****ing helmet, allright?! "I''m not happy. I''m not happy." Nobody''s happy, ok!? Happiness comes in small doses folks. It''s a cigarette, or a chocolate cookie, or a five second orgasm. That''s it, ok! You cum, you eat the cookie, you smoke the butt, you go to sleep, you get up in the morning and go to ****ing work, ok!? That is it! End of ****ing list! "I''m just not happy." Shut the **** up, allright?


Jeff, you listening to these people?

-- James


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## Augustan (Sep 11, 2003)

If you really can''t stand school, at least get a trade or skill behind you. Diesel mechanic would be great as you could then earn money fixing other cruisers boats.....offering them a cheaper rate than boatyards would give you an edge.

Even something like a truck and forklift licence will elevate you above the bottom level of the employment market (it is a market, you are the product and if you don''t have anything to offer then no one will buy!!). However, I''m not sure these skills would be much use outside of the U.S. anyway. 

But you are better off sticking with school until you graduate, your attitude to it might change by then and you will have more options.

Having said all this, I did drop out of High School at the age of 15.
But I am lucky to have two facts on my side.

1. I was born in Australia.
2. I was born in 1967

I am also lucky to have landed a postal worker job 15 years ago, driving vans, trucks and forklifts. Secure government jobs like this no longer exist here except for those like me lucky enough to already be in them.

You will notice I have used the word lucky a few times. Luck truly was on my side. Enthusiasm to learn and work also helped me. But things were different when I was your age and I would hate to be your age and unskilled now, even living in "The Lucky Country" 

I know now that I can always get work because I have some skills to offer. It won''t make me rich, but it''s enough for me to now own a decent 29 footer and my own home.

I was also lucky enough to buy my own home right before the huge real estate boom that has been happening in this country for the last five years. This turned my initial $10,000 investment into $100,000 in five years!! That is what I would have in my pocket if I sold up now and paid out the remaining mortgage. But this is still not enough for me to chuck the job and go sailing long term. 

But I am in a position to think about taking a year off to sail the Great Barrier Reef, this may or may not satisfy my urge to go cruising but I''ll worry about that later.

So the bottom line is this........

At the age of 36, I am now in a position to go medium term cruising because...

1. I have some skills that are in reasonable demand.

2. I have real estate and other assets behind me.

Just to finish up now, I was 17 last week (or so it seems!!!)

I wake up this morning and I''m almost 37!!!

Where did that 20 years go? I''m glad I didn''t waste it!!!

Oh yeah, stay off the drugs......I smoked lots of pot when young but couldn''t be bothered with it now. Sailing and simply messing about in boats is enough high for me now, along with a scotch or two in the cockpit at sundown 

Darren
S/V Augustan
Sydney, Australia


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