# Trailer sailor dreaming



## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

I'm enjoying the modern boat thread. But, I live in Montana, and anything larger than a trailer sailer just doesn't make sense. So, I'm starting this thread to discuss the virtues of boats that can visit different lakes via pavement. 
Currently I own a San Juan 21. She's a lot of fun, but with 3 teens the cabin is pretty cramped. I'd like to upsize, and looking for advice. Number one, hard and fast rule is it MUST be launchable from the trailer. Yes, I understand, that's a compromise right off the bat. It's also non negotiable.
Aside from that simple requirement, I'm wide open. So, what say you?
Thanks!

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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

We just sold our Nor'sea 27 that we launched off a trailer into fresh water. I think you need to specify a few more parameters such as the current tow vehicle and budget. There is a
1998 Seaward Seaward/Hake listed on Yacht World. They are a roomy boat with a draft of 2'1".


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

Thanks Jer. Let's say budget is$20k, and tow vehicle will be whatever is required. Currently I tow Orbweaver with either my suzuki XL7 or the wife's toyota sequoia. I am planning to buy a pickup again anyway, so if I need big, then big it is.

Edit to add: I learned to sail on a Seaward 23, and thought it was a great boat

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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Nor'sea is a bit north of 20k and they weigh in around 8500 plus trailer you would need at least a 3/4 ton truck to pull. Check out the Seaward/Hake you might be surprised. Inboard diesel to boot. I don't know about mast stepping on a Seaward. Good luck


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## sesmith (Jan 24, 2013)

We have a Seaward 25 and like it a lot. It would be pretty tight if all 5 of you were planning on overnighting on it, but for day sails it would be fine. If you had a full canvas including sides, that would increase your living space a lot, and a couple could sleep outside in the cockpit comfortably. 

Most 25's are right around your price range. The 26rk boats would run more but wouldn't give you any more room (actually less with the keel trunk in the way). Mast raising can take a bit of time, so we either kept ours in a slip, or towed it to places we could spend at least a week or two at. Figure about 6000-6500 lbs. tow weight regardless of what the factory claims the weight is.

Though I'm partial to our Seaward, another one to look at could be a Hunter 26 or 260. Both of these are water ballasted (the 260 being newer), so towing weight is reduced. Catalina also made a water ballasted 250. We've sailed with friends that have a Catalina 25 that was trailered. It was the wing keel version. We've also seen several Oday 26's that were trailered. Some of these boats are wider than the 8'6" that is the max without permits. I don't know anyone who bothered, but it could be a consideration.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

If you want a boat with a nice cabin for the whole gang to lounge in, Hunter 260 water ballast comes to mind.

There is no v berth so the whole cabin is open concept with a good sized table with wrap around seating. Head is at the bottom of the companion way. There is a double berth under the cockpit, almost like a (small) aft cabin.

Nice cockpit too with kind of a sugar scoop transom that one could reasonably swim from. My wife's biggest complaint with our current boat isn't the size of the cabin, or the porta potti, it's that it's too hard to swim from 🌊

Almost any boat can benefit from a bimini and canvas enclosure too. Our cabin is quite small but our cockpit is about 7 feet long. We use the cockpit as our dining area rain or shine due to bimini and enclosure and we also have a cockpit insert to change the cockpit into an additional sleeping cabin.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

skills4lou said:


> I'm enjoying the modern boat thread. But, I live in Montana, and anything larger than a trailer sailer just doesn't make sense. So, I'm starting this thread to discuss the virtues of boats that can visit different lakes via pavement.
> Currently I own a San Juan 21. She's a lot of fun, but with 3 teens the cabin is pretty cramped. Is like to upsize, and looking for advice. Number one, hard and fast rule is it MUST be launchable from the trailer. Yes, I understand, that's a compromise right off the bat. It's also non negotiable.
> Aside from that simple requirement, I'm wide open. So, what say you?
> Thanks!
> ...


Nothing is going to be a total solution but i had my Catalina 22 parked next to a Catalina 25 in the boatyard and I was impressed with the size difference. Its a lot bigger, but I guess essentially the same boat from what I could tell with a swig keel and all.


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

This "exercise" has been done over and over and over.... Just Google it. For the sake of argument, my First 235 can be ramp launched and you can make a gin pole for the mast and.... and....


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Yeah, and the distinction that I draw personally is that even my Catalina 22 is too big and heavy and too much work to daysail, but I do take it to Lake George for a week in the summer. But mostly I keep it in a dock at a marina. Otherwise its too exhausting to use.

To go one size larger the mast and rigging will be too heavy (for me)to lift. So those bigger heavier trailer sailor boats are probably marina launched or what I refer to as "transportable" sailboats. Yes, you can decide to go to a certain lake and take it there, and much of the setup is the same, but the depth of ramp needed, the weight of the mast, the rigging and all that - just goes from something that can be done with strong arms to something that is done by crane.


In 2019 we did a family trip to Lake George. The ramp angle was wrong and broke the ring that pulls the boat up. The marina people were horrible and made us get off the ramp in a hurry. I had to step the mast as in the burning hot midday sun in August. The owner of the marina said I couldn't step the mast in the marina. The mast crutch takes the rudder gudgeons so you have very little steering ability. In summary, it was a friggin nightmare. Never again. I take the setup and take down of the boat very seriously and am good at it. But increase the size and weight of everything 50% and you have an even worse situation. OTOH, I have set it up at a remote ramp site in 20 minutes with two people and everything worked out great. After 7 years of doing it I am a master.


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## Horace74 (Oct 31, 2016)

skills4lou said:


> I'm enjoying the modern boat thread. But, I live in Montana, and anything larger than a trailer sailer just doesn't make sense. So, I'm starting this thread to discuss the virtues of boats that can visit different lakes via pavement.
> Currently I own a San Juan 21. She's a lot of fun, but with 3 teens the cabin is pretty cramped. Is like to upsize, and looking for advice. Number one, hard and fast rule is it MUST be launchable from the trailer. Yes, I understand, that's a compromise right off the bat. It's also non negotiable.
> Aside from that simple requirement, I'm wide open. So, what say you?
> Thanks!
> ...


I currently sail a San Juan 28 and we LOVE San Juans


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## john61ct (Jan 23, 2017)

Too be honest there are just so many options, the job gets easier narrowing things down, if you either

post examples for discussion that are locally available to actually choose from, or

have clearer ideas if what you actually want wrt specific features.


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## john61ct (Jan 23, 2017)

Skipper Jer said:


> Nor'sea is a bit north of 20k


So can you share what you let go of yours for?


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

john61ct said:


> Too be honest there are just so many options, the job gets easier narrowing things down, if you either
> 
> post examples for discussion that are locally available to actually choose from, or
> 
> have clearer ideas if what you actually want wrt specific features.


Options available locally is a short list. Here's the list right now:

A little farther out, the list includes a Cal T4.

I'm not really wanting to narrow it down too much more, but having enough cabin room for a family of 5 would be nice. Definitely does not need to be a "blue water" boat. Electronics... Meh, cabin and anchor lights would be all that's required. 
Easy to reef and maybe roller furler for the head sail.

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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

If I had to suggest a single trailerable that sails well is trailerable and has half-way decent interior, I would suggest the S2 7.9.

On the other hand, if you have a long ramp and don't mind using a tongue extender, Boats like the Laser 28 can be ramp launched and sail exceptionally well.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Jeff_H said:


> If I had to suggest a single trailerable that sails well is trailerable and has half-way decent interior, I would suggest the S2 7.9.


I was going to suggest the same thing. But I am biased because the 7.9 is my "big boat".

@skills4lou Where in MT are you? Do you plan to launch it seasonally or daily when you sail.

I am pretty much the same place in NW Wyoming. I have a Potter 15 I keep on Jackson Lake. It is easily trailerable and launched. My 7.9 is on a trailer mast up at Bear Lake in UT. The S2 would very likely fit your family although for overnights someone would have to sleep in the cockpit. I would label the S2 as a trailerable not a trailer sailor. I would not want to launch it every time I go sailing. Even with the mast up and just having to drive to the ramp and launch the boat. My wife only enjoys the boat once it is the water and really does not like the effort it takes to launch, so her dislike of launching put a cramp in our visits to the boat. Maybe with motivated teens it would be different.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

A trailer sailor for five to sleep aboard comfortably? That seems like a tough one.

I have a 'big' boat on the Chesapeake, but summer sailing isn't much fun here so I have one of these which I take to different lakes in upstate New York every summer. No trailer required, takes about an hour to assemble. You can't sleep on it, obviously, but a rented lake house or beach campsite is very teenager-friendly.


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

I'm near Missoula MT. So far I've only sailed up at Flathead Lake. Generally it's going to be launched daily (or each trip, some trips might be a few days). Not left on the water too long. A seasonal slip up there is VERY difficult to get, and the prices reflect that. Plus, I'd like the option to visit some of the other lakes in the area. 
Room for 5 is mostly for day use, not necessarily sleeping accommodations. We have had 5 total on the SJ21 overnight, but not everyone enjoys sleeping on the boat. Tent on the shore is part of the overnight plans.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

john61ct said:


> So can you share what you let go of yours for?


We had it listed for 35,500 and we (buyer and seller) came to a mutually acceptable figure. Both of us think we did well, they really like the boat and we miss our boat but now have a hole at the dock to fill with a different sailboat.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

skills4lou said:


> Room for 5 is mostly for day use, not necessarily sleeping accommodations. We have had 5 total on the SJ21 overnight, but not everyone enjoys sleeping on the boat. Tent on the shore is part of the overnight plans.


A slip on Jackson Lake has a 20+ year waiting list. The buoy took me 4 years to get now the list is even longer. I had 3 in my Potter 15 this summer which sucked. I really think for trailer sailing it is best to stick to 22 feet or under. As soon as you go above that the effort to put up the mast and launch becomes significant.

For my future Jackson Lake Boat I have settled on a Mariner 19. It is like a Potter 15 cabin only slightly longer but has a cockpit that can seat 6. Yes it will be tight but, this boat will alow me to take a few friends day sailing or up to 4 on beach camping adventures. The problem is they are very rare east of the Great Lakes.

The Hunter 216 also looked interesting. Saw one near you for sale. 








Hunter 216 Sailboat - boats - by owner - marine sale


2007 Hunter 216 in great condition and ready to sail today. Includes boat, 2 sails, a Load Rite...



spokane.craigslist.org





Pend Oreille is a great place to visit/sail.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

If you consider the S2 7.9, you may get spoiled by the performance, 

The S2 7.9 is about as much boat as I would ever want to try to day sail. But you CAN actually do it. 5'8" headroom, the V berth is huge, the quarter berths are kind of tiny.
But the option of a real head, a deck stepped mast that rotates up, option of outboard OR inboard, add furling to it, and its a great boat. Boat self rights daggerboard up.

I'll get you there, but 3 teens, and you? That's too close a family.

Now my standards have changed over the years. I have a brother and 2 sisters. My parents took us all sailing frequently on their Montego 19. Dad DID get a US 27 only about 18 months later though  No a US 27 isn't a trailerable.

Some other trailerables worth mentioning that are a bit bigger (some in your budget some not).
Precision 28 (27), Capri 26, Seaward 25, or 26rk, Oday 26 (great choice ticks all your buttons including price), and Catalina 25 (price and size fit). These are gonna be on the hard side to trailer. top end of a 1500 to tow, 2500 recommended. If you think that doesn't matter, you may not have looked at the difference in price between a 1500 and a 2500 lately.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

SHNOOL said:


> These are gonna be on the hard side to trailer. top end of a 1500 to tow, 2500 recommended. If you think that doesn't matter, you may not have looked at the difference in price between a 1500 and a 2500 lately.


He lives at elevation with Mountain passes all around. He will need to oversize his truck.



SHNOOL said:


> The S2 7.9 is about as much boat as I would ever want to try to day sail. But you CAN actually do it. 5'8" headroom, the V berth is huge, the quarter berths are kind of tiny.


According to my wife and rest of the family, the quarter berths sleep 3, so a 7.9, in theory, sleeps 8.


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## hnash53 (Aug 18, 2017)

A Chrysler 22... or even the Chrysler 26... would fit the bill. Lots of interior space in both. Both have swing keels so launching is not a problem.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

What ever you purchase make sure the mast can be easily stepped by a couple without a crane. I have seen couples nearly split up over mast raising shenanigans, damaged rigs, damaged vehicles. 

There are some boats that will literally take hours to rig, so you can pretty much forget about day sailing with them. 

There really aren't many trailer sailers over about 20 feet that are easy enough to rig that I would consider reasonable for day sailing. SJ21 is maybe an exception because they are reasonably small and light for a 21 ft boat.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

jephotog, jeffh, and I are referencing the S2 7.9 for easy trailerability, its a 4500lb boat, 2000lbs of trailer (so easily 6500 all up, without gear). Draws 18 inches of water, board up (and rudder kicked up), is self righting board up, has a single centered pin on the tabernackle (and a semi-circle mast plug), the spinnaker pole, and ring can be used as a gin-pole rig to self-raise the mast. The single spreader, swept fractional design and small single lowers make it a single forestay removal to lower mast. When on the trailer, the boat sits quite low on the trailer, so its not top heavy like a lot of other designs including swing keels (like the Cat 25, Chrysler 22/26, Oday, etc.) Way better than the wing keels (Capri 26, Precision 28)... its kind of an ALL purpose boat. You'll note I'm giving lots of leeway for tow capabilities.

Did I mention that the boat can handily beat J24s in a race? Its build like a truck too, and takes a breeze nicely.

Biggest downside to the boat is its balsa cored deck. One has to be VERY careful of leaks at chainplates, windows, thuhulls, and after-market gear bolted to the deck, etc.

Jepthotog, while I lived in the poconos when you picked up the S2 7.9, I live in the Blue ridge mountains now. I stand by my original statement that a 2500 would be plenty of truck to tow the 7.9 (which I know you know as well, since you own one). A HD 1500 might work too, tow rating needs to be 9000+ to provide at least 2500lbs of "swag."

Some of the other boats I mentioned, like the Oday 26, which I really like as well (rarely do you see those abused), would require at least a 2500 as well.

I should also mention that when you are talking these larger trailerables, 4x4 makes a lot of sense as well. These ramps can get quite slippery, and on haul out especially, you'll need every bit of advantage you can get. Watched my friend with a 2500 RWD VAN, spin wheels all the way up the ramp trying to get his Oday 26 out, he almost went for a swim before we had to pull out the 4000 series John Deere to pull both his truck AND his boat out. Our ramp was stupid steep though.


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I keep finding lots of 25-26' boats down in Florida, but I'm not too keen on driving THAT far.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

skills4lou said:


> I'm near Missoula MT. So far I've only sailed up at Flathead Lake. Generally it's going to be launched daily (or each trip, some trips might be a few days). Not left on the water too long. A seasonal slip up there is VERY difficult to get, and the prices reflect that. Plus, I'd like the option to visit some of the other lakes in the area.
> Room for 5 is mostly for day use, not necessarily sleeping accommodations. We have had 5 total on the SJ21 overnight, but not everyone enjoys sleeping on the boat. Tent on the shore is part of the overnight plans.


If you don't actually plan to sleep all 5 on board, one of my favorite trailerables is the Santana 23 D. They are a light boat to two and easy to rig and sail. While less than 2 feet longer than the SJ21 they have a long cockpit and a little more displacement and so can handle 5 people more easily. These boats sail very well and offer a little more performance than the SJ so the teen agers may be less inclined to get bored. Given that you plan to launch every time you go out sailing, the light weight rig on these boats should make things a lot easier. 
Here are a couple listed on your side of the country:





SANTANA 23 D, Two boats, 1980 and 1981, Salt Lake City, Utah, sailboat for sale from Sailing Texas, yacht for sale


SANTANA 23 D, Three boats, 1980 and 1981, Salt Lake City, Utah, yacht for sale, sailboat for sale



sailingtexas.com









Santana 23D, 1981, Seneca, South Carolina, sailboat for sale from Sailing Texas, yacht for sale


Santana 23D, 1981, Seneca, South Carolina, yacht for sale, sailboat for sale



sailingtexas.com





Jeff


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Jeff_H said:


> Here are a couple listed on your side of the country:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe the Santanas are still for sale or were last I checked.

@skills4lou The places to shop for boats in this region:
Salt Lake City has a yacht club and a large marina on the Great Salt Lake. No one uses Craigslist there check out Sailboats, Catamarans, & Windsurfing Gear For Sale | ksl.com

Pocatello Craigslist 
Pend Oreille and coeur d'alene have huge sailig community with a very active yacht club on Lake Pend Oreille those boats are often listed on CL for Spokane 





spokane boats - craigslist


spokane boats - craigslist



spokane.craigslist.org





It looks like the sailboats have been put away for the winter but come spring there should be a bunch more listed in these places.


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

Thanks Jordan, Interestingly, a Santana 2023A just popped up in Kalispell...


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

skills4lou said:


> Thanks Jordan, Interestingly, a Santana 2023A just popped up in Kalispell...


The trouble is that the Santana 2023A took what was a really nice boat and added water ballast and changed it to a pretty crummy boat. The 23 D had a decent amount of stability, and sail area which made them a really nice boat to sail. The water ballast on the 2030A never cut it for stability. It added weight but without adequate stability they reduced the sail area. That killed both light air and heavy air capabilities. An acquaintance who owned a 23D "upgraded" to a 2030. He ended keeping the 23D and taking a hit selling the 2030.
Jeff


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

Thanks Jeff, good to know!


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## cousineddy (Nov 27, 2011)

In Phoenix at lake pleasant there is a “mast up” sailboat storage lot. This was awesome. We could strap launch our fin keel boat in less than 15 min. This is the way to go. I know many people that have a trailerable boat at their house or in storage but never use it because of the fuss associated with towing to the location raising the mast, etc. If you buy one, chances are you will tow it somewhere to use 2 or 3 times, then it will sit for years until you sell it. If you can find a lake with a mast up lot, you will be much happier. This will also allow you to get a much bigger boat. Backing a large sailboat into the water is much easier that towing to the destination. I have seen Catalina 30, J30s, J105s, First 29s...etc for sale on trailers. If you don’t want to buy a 2500, you could have it moved to the lot, but launch with a 1/2 ton pickup or SUV. Anyway, this is another option to consider if its available.


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

I'm taking today to go for a drive and look at that Cal T4. 
I had to look up 'strap launching'. That's an interesting technique. I'm assuming it would require a lot of ramp underwater. I think I'd prefer to make an extendable tongue, if I happen to need more length. With my SJ21, I back up until the hitch ball is right at the edge of the water, then maybe another 6" and she's floating off the trailer.


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## cousineddy (Nov 27, 2011)

My trailer has an extendable tongue, but we found that it was much faster with the strap. Installed a caster wheel on the tounge. Basically, back the trailer to the waters edge, chock the wheels, unhook from the truck, pull forward to get tension on the strap, pull the chocks, climb into the boat, back in, motor to the dock. Chock the wheels on the trailer, hook it back on the hitch, drive off and park. The wife would drive the truck, I would work the strap. We used a 30 ft strap, my boat took 6 feet of water to float it off the trailer. Definitely need to know where the ramp ends before this is attempt this. But, it really didn’t take long, we could do it faster than some of the power boats launching next to us trying to figure out how to back a trailer.


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

I made an extendable tongue for our Nor'sea 27. Only concern was how much the extended tongue flexed. We had some steerage with the tongue. I guess steerage could be achieved with the strap if one could swivel the tongue wheel.


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## john61ct (Jan 23, 2017)

By "tongue wheel" you mean the one on a trailer jack attached to the A-frame?

Is that deployed to bear weight while the trailer is being maneuvered by the truck?


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

john61ct said:


> By "tongue wheel" you mean the one on a trailer jack attached to the A-frame?


Yes, that is what I mean.


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## MrRoger (Apr 27, 2018)

skills4lou said:


> I'm enjoying the modern boat thread. But, I live in Montana, and anything larger than a trailer sailer just doesn't make sense. So, I'm starting this thread to discuss the virtues of boats that can visit different lakes via pavement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





skills4lou said:


> I'm enjoying the modern boat thread. But, I live in Montana, and anything larger than a trailer sailer just doesn't make sense. So, I'm starting this thread to discuss the virtues of boats that can visit different lakes via pavement.
> Currently I own a San Juan 21. She's a lot of fun, but with 3 teens the cabin is pretty cramped. I'd like to upsize, and looking for advice. Number one, hard and fast rule is it MUST be launchable from the trailer. Yes, I understand, that's a compromise right off the bat. It's also non negotiable.
> Aside from that simple requirement, I'm wide open. So, what say you?
> Thanks!
> ...


Hey Lou, search Parker Dawson on SailNet especially posts from Aswayze (among the most intelligent & talented gents I've had the privilege to meet!) It's a great trailer-sailor and if you could've snagged Aswayze's last fall you'd have gotten an incredible deal. They're very capable and safe with a center cockpit and the one i own (PRODIGAL) competed in the first 2 OSTAR races.
No offense to any but water ballast weighs the same as water. Just when Prodigal starts kicking up her heels, the water ballasted should be getting close to the marina. I live in Idaho and tow it with a 3/4 ton diesel with no trouble.


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

Thanks Mr. Roger, I'll check that out. We did look at that Cal T4 today, and I would say that's definitely not in my definition of a trailer sailer. The aft edge of the keel was delaminated, there was a poorly done fill of an old thru hull hole, and...and....and it's more of a project than I have time for. Price was right, but just not quite what I'm looking for.


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

OK, so I've done a little digging and looking at those Parker Dawson 26's. They look pretty good! I especially like the idea of kicking the kids into the rear cabin! 
How long is the v-berth? Looking at Aswayze's pics I can't really tell. I'm thinking that with a boom tent there's an awful lot of room in those 26'.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

john61ct said:


> By "tongue wheel" you mean the one on a trailer jack attached to the A-frame?
> 
> Is that deployed to bear weight while the trailer is being maneuvered by the truck?


A tongue wheel should be different from the wheel that keeps the tongue off the ground and makes the trailer maneuverable by hand. My trailer jacks has a wheel but is far from steerable. I think a 'strap launcher' installs a more robust wheel.


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## john61ct (Jan 23, 2017)

Hmm, sounds interesting, hope I come across examples of such.

I was thinking, would need to be a damn robust tongue jack to withstand the lateral / torquing forces on the downtube. Especially at the connection point to the A-frame, might even end up bending that


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

So I found a couple examples of the PD26 on shoppok, but not one response from any of the emails I sent. I'm thinking that sight just recycles craigslist ads? Anyone near Lebanon, OR that wants to look at this one for me? 
Parker Dawson 26

Anyway, small update on the summer slip situation: I found a slip! It's what I would consider high priced, at $1500 for the season (June through October). There are a couple places that are a bit lower price but they are also much more susceptible to storm damage. This one has a small channel leading back to a completely protected harbor with zero chance of any waves crashing in. There is always a potential for windstorms up there, and I'm more than happy to pay a little extra for the peace of mind knowing that the boat is protected. They had a storm last summer that tore out docks and damaged several boats
Anyway, the search continues. Looking around the Seattle area as well. Thanks everyone for the suggestions.


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

john61ct said:


> Hmm, sounds interesting, hope I come across examples of such.
> 
> I was thinking, would need to be a damn robust tongue jack to withstand the lateral / torquing forces on the downtube. Especially at the connection point to the A-frame, might even end up bending that


It is not the tongue jack. In a strap launch the front of the trailer is supported by a separate bar and wheel designed for that purpose, it is significantly more robust than a tongue jack. One factor is a trailer tongue weight is usually in the 10-15% range so most trailerable boats will have a tongue weight of less than 1000 lbs.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Don't laugh, this actually worked!


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Believe it or not, this provided enough distance to make it work.


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

Well, so far I'm not having any luck getting folks to respond to my emails. I guess I'll just go buy a better truck instead.


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## aric1972 (Dec 10, 2020)

MrRoger said:


> Hey Lou, search Parker Dawson on SailNet especially posts from Aswayze (among the most intelligent & talented gents I've had the privilege to meet!) It's a great trailer-sailor and if you could've snagged Aswayze's last fall you'd have gotten an incredible deal. They're very capable and safe with a center cockpit and the one i own (PRODIGAL) competed in the first 2 OSTAR races.
> No offense to any but water ballast weighs the same as water. Just when Prodigal starts kicking up her heels, the water ballasted should be getting close to the marina. I live in Idaho and tow it with a 3/4 ton diesel with no trouble.


Hey there...just read your post and agree with you on the PD's attributes. I live up in Nelson BC and just picked up a 73 Midship 25 in Calgary at the end of last summer. Just overhauling the engine so we haven't been out in her yet but saw your boat "Prodigal" advertised for sale ? Was looking at boats to compare when we were shopping around. Are you a newish owner or was that an old ad Iwas looking at? She has a great history...have read all about her


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

So I thought I had a line on one in Utah, but that sold before I could get there. I also found a Lancer 25 about 5hrs away in WA that looks like it might fit the bill, and a little farther out is a Lancer 28. With the slip situation, I won't need to step the mast every time, so maybe a little bigger wouldn't be a bad thing. Thoughts?


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## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

skills4lou said:


> So I thought I had a line on one in Utah, but that sold before I could get there. I also found a Lancer 25 about 5hrs away in WA that looks like it might fit the bill, and a little farther out is a Lancer 28. With the slip situation, I won't need to step the mast every time, so maybe a little bigger wouldn't be a bad thing. Thoughts?


When I was looking for my first trailerable about 2 decades ago, I saw a Lancer 28, asked around, possibly here and heard it was cheaply built using a chopper gun build method. If the price is right and it is in good shape go for it, otherwise keep looking for a better built boat. Ice free lakes are still months out.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

jephotog, we had a buy who owned a Lancer 28 in our club sailed it frequently. I don't believe he would have called it "cheaply built." He later upgraded to a Catalina 27 Tall rig inboard model (also trailer launched if you can believe it), and now he owns a Hunter Legend 35.

Also to piggy back of something that jephotog said about trailer wheels, I know that the Catalina 25 guys came up with a wheel bearing assembly you could buy (etrailer?) that slid into a Class III hitch mount (sideways onto a trailer frame)... What you did is you normally mounted the ENTIRE assembly, wheel, bearing, tire, etc. vertical in travel, stopped, unhitched, cranked up the wheel jack, flipped the bearing assembly upside down, and now the wheel was within reach, poof 3rd or 5th wheel/.

Several people have made variations of this idea for strap launching. OOH found one...


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

Well, dreaming will be getting a little closer to reality. We are going to make a trip to WA to look at a couple, including the 25 and 28 Lancers, this weekend.
Hopefully they go a little better than my test drive of an F250 did Saturday. The transmission went out about 2 miles into the test drive. Sucked for the owner, but I'm sure happy it happened BEFORE we started getting serious!


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

could have been worse than the transmission. F250 diesel 6.0, blowing white smoke? bad juju. Yeah that was my test drive of a used F250 many moons ago.


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

No, this was a 2000 with the 7.3 international.

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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

We are adding two more to the list: a Neptune 24 and a south coast 26. If anyone would like to chime in, I'm all ears. 


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

Well, the Lancer 25 looks like the hull is good, but has some leaks around the windows that would need to be addressed. Bigger issue is the interior will need some work to repair the mold that has resulted from those leaks. Good bones, but maybe not the right layout for us. 

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## cousineddy (Nov 27, 2011)

Any sailboat older that 20 years will have deck and window leaks if the owner hasn’t rebedded all of the deck fittings. Also, if there are leaks then there is likely deck core rot and rot around the bulkhead chainplate. Most owners have not rebedded deck fittings during the first 20 years. On the plus side, its not expensive if you can do it yourself, just very labor intensive. Since you will likely have to do this on any older boat you buy, you can use this to negotiate the price way down...especially if you see water damage or discoloration around the chain plates, of if there are soft spots on the deck. Walk by a stantion, if it moves when you step next to it, then there is likely core rot. Replace core can be $4k per spot, rebuilding bulk heads can be $10k professionally. But only a few hundred in materials if you do it yourself. So, if you like the boat and you are handy, negotiate it way down...like to the value of the trailer.


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

I fully expect all older boats will need some work, so that in and of itself won't be a deal breaker. I'm handy, and like projects. The search continues today...

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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

Well so far the south coast 26 was easily the worst. Very easy to eliminate that one.
The Lancer 28 was better, but both the 25 and 28 had a fair amount of water intrusion, and I'm certain the headliner is hiding a lot of nasty mold. Fixable, yes. But the layout just didn't sing or song, and we don't really want another project that in the end isn't our deal. 
And that leaves the Neptune. Much better condition, but still some things that I'm not certain about. The biggest for me is the level of water in the bilge. I ran the pump on manual for 5 mins and it was pumping the entire time. Good that the pump works, bad that it has that much water just sitting there. The owner said they have to pump it out before and after every sail. 
Also the bow pulpit suffered damage from something and one side is bent fairly good. This one is in the water, so no chance to inspect the hull from below. And, the trailer has a busted spring that will need replacing, at the very least. 
In the end we are going home empty, and keeping the Neptune as a possible depending on what else we might find. Having a fun to sail boat already kinda takes the pressure off and we don't need to settle for another boat that's not really what we want. 

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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

Just thought I'd give an update: We were going to look at a Mac 25 Sunday, but it was snowing and neither the owner nor I wanted to climb around a boat with snow/ice on the decks. The other options I'm considering are Mac 26's, one each in X and M models. I'm hoping to get a chance to do a little roadtrip this next weekend to check at least one out.


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

Well, in the interim we've looked at a Mac 26X and the 25. The 26X was deemed a possible, but not at the asking price. The 25 was finally available to look at, but it came up short as well (pun intended, because one should always intend their puns!). 

I heard tell of a Catalina 25 that may be coming on the market, and from the looks of it that might do nicely. I am also not ruling out a Mac 26S if I can find one in good condition.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

The Mac 25, and 26S are pretty decent sailing boats, the 26X is a jack of all trades... its all about space, and being able to go fast without sails.
Its all preference of course, just pointing it out.

The Catalina 25 is a lot of boat to tow, but is also probably the best of the bunch as far as quality and sailing characteristics. The Cat 25 will hard to learn trailering sailboats on, but it still is doable and there is a great association that can help you catalina-capri-25s.org


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## john61ct (Jan 23, 2017)

Mac 26, X or M

are the ones that gogogo with a big motor on the back

many sail-snobs say "not really a sailboat that"

but those not worried about such things love them, lots of inside space for comfort.

My understanding is, mast/rigging designed for pretty quick transition from the trailer to water and back.

Yes they do hold their value on the secondhand market

but that is a *good* thing, assuming you will want to upgrade one day, been a stable if not rising market for yeats, big fan base stateside.

Pre-Covid anything in the $15-20K range was so cheap as to be suspect, I bet they bumped up a bit before winter 2020

so IMO, if you find a motivated seller, it's in decent condition and especially with a go-fast motor in good nick, do not let an extra few grand stop you.

Strictly coastal / inland cruiser though, not built for offshore, but I think you were being realistic about that.


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## skills4lou (Aug 23, 2018)

Well, the search has come to an abrupt end. Meet Serenade:









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