# Sacrilege - Somebody's Gotta Do It



## smackdaddy

There has been an ongoing discussion about the decline of racing - on Salinet (a few times) and on SA (most of the time). Many are trying to come up with ways to increase the interest and participation in the sport both here in the US and it worldwide.

The main question in this debate is: why the decline?

My sacrilegious hunch? It's all pretty damn boring from a spectator standpoint. I mean - SUPER boring.

I watched the Olympics sailing events. Boring. I've watched many of the SA videos of various races. Boring. You've got a pack of smallish boats moving at 6-12 knots (if that) around a course. It's all kinda like watching this crap:










And now, as US27 just pointed out in another thread, "Morning Light" was COMPLETELY ignored. Disney's sailing movie for the masses...canned.

On the other hand, you've got extremely exciting and compelling races like the VOR and the Vendee. DEFINITELY NOT BORING. And they are covered pretty well. These events, in my opinion, could attract a far wider audience and interest in the sport. But these haven't been able to bust through to wide coverage (at least not here in the US). Why?

Now racing is obviously appealing to racers themselves. But that's obviously not enough to regenerate a dying sport. It's gotta be about the spectator I think.

To that end, I know exactly what I'm talking about here - because I AM a spectator (not a racer). I love sailing. I've learned a bit about it. I have a boat and I sail it (at a greenhorn level). And, though I've never "formally" raced, I'd like to eventually do it for kicks (although more passage racing than course racing). So - this makes me a truly vested spectator.

So the first question is...why is anyone surprised that lower tier racing is dying when it's so damn boring to watch? And the second question is...how can the more exciting races be promoted to build general interest - and eventually feed the lower tier stuff?


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## AE28

Smack...

I don't watch much sports on TV, but I am interested in and would watch sailboat racing and bicycle racing.

Both of those sports get very poor, if any, coverage in the US. I've "heard" neither of them are all that interesting to Americans (our notoriously short attention spans???).

I've also heard they're very expensive to cover on TV because of the equipment involved over large courses/venues. The _Tour de France _comes to mind. What coverage we do get to see is pooled video, which strikes me as an ideal way to spread the cost. Do they do the same for sailing coverage?

There's no question the interest of the masses for either of these two sports cannot rival those getting the top TV coverage in the US. I think most folks, since they don't participate, don't understand the rules and tactics of the sports. I think a simple introduction to the sports televised early in the season would go a long way to increase interest.

Finally, the sports federations could also do a lot to raise interest. In bicycle racing, for example, I (and others I know) have lost interest because the federations are making a pharmaceutical farce of their sport.

In sailing, the AC coverage a few years ago was stalled what seemed like forever because they couldn't decide if they were going to race on a day-by-day basis. I was interested in watching but eventually lost interest.

About once per week, I go on the Internet TV guide and search "sailing" and "yachting", rarely finding anything (watched _Captain Ron _again last night!!!).

It'll be interesting to see the comments to this thread you've opened!!!

Thanks,
Paul


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## JohnRPollard

Smack,

I haven't seen the A-S thread. But it's not just the racing -- it's sailing in general. The decline is inter-related, but I will try to keep the comments specific to racing.

I disagree that it's the "boring" factor. Racing is actually a blast, not so much to watch, but to participate in. The fact that it is not a spectator sport is one aspect that makes racing so much fun to engage in.

Because it's a "participation" sport, it's like being part of an exclusive club, or secret society if you will. There is an immense exhilaration and adrenaline rush that is hard to achieve elsewhere, made more special by the knowledge that our land-bound brethren can never understand it. Successfully executing a port-pole-starboard-set of the spinnaker at the crowded windward mark, then surfing it down to the leeward mark, peeling it, then snugging down smartly for the windward slog again -- it's hard to beat without bumping up to some of the seriously dangerous activities, like base jumping.

But you're right. It's in decline. And the primary reason in my opinion is the advent of "sport boats" and the costs associated with campaigning them successfully.

When I first got into it, the racing circuit was dominated by typical production boats of the "club racer" variety. These were boats that could be both competitively raced under various rating systems (PHRF, Portsmouth, etc) AND comfortably cruised by a family. Pearsons, Catalinas, Beneteaus, various J-Boats, Frers, NYs, Rangers, Albergs, etc etc etc.

In days past, it was not uncommon to see some racers towing dinghies, particularly on the port-to-port or "destination" races. Folks sailed the sails they had, upgrading a single sail every couple years to both stay reasonably competitive and keep it affordable. Many of the crews were just families, or a bunch of friends out for fun and competition. The boats had decent accommodations, so staying overnight on the boats was pretty typical.

By the mid-90's or so, "sport boats" had very much arrived on scene. These designs took sailing to another level of speed and competition. No question, they are fun and fast to sail. But all that performance came at a big price -- and to stay competitive in these one-design fleets sails and other equipment need to be upgraded constantly.

It's like an arms race. Very expensive, constantly draining resources. And, increasingly, those without the unlimited resources simply turn away, with the knowledge that they don't have the big wallets and simply can't be competitive.

Also, unlike the club racers of yesteryear, the sport boats are minimally "accommodated", and as such they are no longer a destination unto themselves, but function simply as a platform to complete a race. They are not an inviting destination where a family or friends linger to commiserate about the race, or simply enjoy the camaraderie of fellow sailors and the innate satisfaction of being aboard a well-found vessel. They are a different breed of boat, a "let's get on and off quickly " sort. Something inherent and essential to the "sailing experience" is lost.

So it's been my general impression -- obviously not one I've worked hard to articulate given the lack of coherence here -- that sport boats and their ilk have been bad for racing and sailing in general. There are other factors in play, of course -- some more in the domain of "cruising" -- but that's a larger topic.


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## US27inKS

Racing and sailing in general seem to be on the upswing here in the midwest. Our Commodore's Cup race on labor day weekend was bigger than ever last year. People were lined up on the deck at the clubhouse and had lawn chairs set up on the hill. Most of them might have been waiting for the final boat to cross the finish line so the party could start, but hey, whatever it takes.


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## smackdaddy

John - I think you bring up an excellent point. Sport/race boats and super-high technology are not what it's about. Okay - so your race boat weighs as much as a meth-addict-anorexic because EVERYTHING is made out of CF. Who cares? It still only goes 14 knots!!! It's not exactly an F1 machine...right?

I think that's why the Vendee and VOR are so appealing. It's not really about the boats per se - it's about the BIG sailing. Watching expensive boats crowd around a mark in relative slow motion is not fun (though I grant it is surely a major blast actually DOING it as you say). On the other hand, watching a single-hander slam through 30 foot seas down around the 30's at even 10 knots is pretty damn amazing.

But then you get into the technology issues...like the weight factors (who want's to add the weight of production equipment to their boat for the Vendee? How would you "crew" it?) - and the technical logistics of covering something like that (great analysis BTW AE).

So it's definitely about the "destination races" as you say John - not the club stiuff. But the question is - to AE's point - how do we cover these kinds of races to make them exciting?

Chall - if you read this chime in. You're in the biz. It would be great to hear your perspective!


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## Sailormon6

Yacht racing will never be a major spectator sport in this country, because people who have never sailed can't relate to it. In order to really get into a sport, you have to relate to it. You can't really relate to a sport unless you have played it, and most people in this country have never sailed. Even many cruising sailors don't understand the appeal of racing a sailboat. People who have never played golf often can't understand it's attraction, because they don't appreciate how difficult it is to hit that little white ball, and make it travel the right distance in the right direction. People who love a sport don't care whether spectators enjoy watching it. They play the sport purely for the love of the sport.

Yacht racing is not a physical sport. It's a cerebral sport. It's an extremely complex sport. The winner of a yacht race is not the one who is strongest or most fleet of foot. The winner is the smartest racer who knows the most, and who accurately reads the wind and the course conditions and uses that information most efficiently to move the boat from point A to point B. 

Smack, I hear what you're saying, but I think I know enough about you from your participation on this forum to be able to say with confidence that, if you ever get on a racing sailboat and participate in some races, you'll be bitten by it. It's difficult to describe the thrill of sailing in the queue before the start of a race, weaving in and out through dozens of big, expensive boats, and maneuvering the boat into the best position for the start. As the start nears, the boats are all maneuvering aggressively to get into the one ideal spot to cross the line, but they obviously can't all be there at once, so they start yelling rules at each other, and it becomes a test of wills. The mark roundings in a big race are exciting, as 3 or 4 boats hit the mark together, and fight for room and position. Good racers will be constantly adjusting sail trim, playing the sails in and out to maximize boat speed all around the course, and to keep the boat driving in light air or in choppy seas. 

Crew on some racing boats in a few races with decent winds, and you'll be hooked. Most people don't enjoy light air racing, because it's the most difficult to do, and not many people are good at it, but, if you learn how to keep the boat moving in light air, you'll love it as much as racing in big winds. Yacht racing isn't about speed - it's about skill.


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## svHyLyte

> There has been an ongoing discussion about the decline of racing - on Salinet (a few times) and on SA (most of the time). Many are trying to come up with ways to increase the interest and participation in the sport both here in the US and it worldwide.
> 
> The main question in this debate is: why the decline?


We pretty much quit racing when it got to the point that one needed to carry a copy of the Racing Rules in the cockpit to compete. It reached a point where, following every race, there was a 2-3 hour lag from finish to posting race results while Protest Committee's held their hearings, awarded redress etc. That plus the fact that there were always a few people willing to do anything to gain what they percieved to be an advantage without regard to the possible damage or injury they might cause to another's yacht or crew. We finally said the heck with it. When the sportsmanship goes out of the sport, it just ain't fun.

FWIW...

s/v HyLyte


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## JohnRPollard

Smack,

I guess a point I didn't make too well in my previous post is that sailboat racing has NEVER been a spectator sport (not in the conventional, mainstream sense, anyway), yet in decades past participation was much higher. 

In trying to come up with an explanation for the decline, we should be looking at what has changed in the sport between then and now. The lack of spectators is a constant, not a new factor.


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## Hudsonian

We should recognize that extrinsics significantly effect sailing and sailboat racing. As the population in the US ages participation is falling for sailing and most other active sports: skiing, golf, tennis, etc. Certainly the societal shift to a longer workweek and to the two earner households make time goblers such as sailing harder to schedule. Even our children's fully booked schedules makes it difficult for them to find time to sail with their family.

We should also look at what's working. One obvious bright spot is time-shared racing of boats like the Ideal 18, where the club owns and maintains the boats. These boats aren't particularly high performance but maintenance is farmed out, costs are reasonable, the vagaries of PHRF handicapping and the Portsmouth Yardstick are eliminated, and short courses ensure tight mark roundings. You just punk down your money and pick the night of the week you want to race. 

A similar if less dramatic bright spot in our area is weeknight racing of the PHRF fleet. It has almost totally eclipsed weekend regattas.


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## bljones

PJ O'rourke really nailed it:

"The America's Cup is like driving your Lamborghini to the Grand Prix track to watch the charter buses race." 

It is a rich man's sport.
It is a slow, rich man's sport.
It is a slow, boring, rich man's sport.
It is a slow, boring, big, rich man's sport.

Which conspires against success with the masses, which means success on TV, and vice versa.
What the sport needs is the equivalent of NASCAR. Short races, small courses, easily televised, with some personality.

Better yet, get rid of all of the rules, the handicapping, the protests, the pedigrees, the egos, the attitudes the challenges, the yacht clubs, and start a new series with a real simple premise:

40' length. 9' beam. No more, no less. Weight, balance, rig, is all open. Oh yeah, trapezes are mandatory- it makes slow look fast and exciting,and this is all about the visuals. This will appeal to the novice spectator, who has no idea what a 12 metre boat is, or a one ton, but understands and covets a 40 foot yacht- THAT he gets, and his eyeballs are what the sport needs to get, so make it simple, not elitist. Also, it means that the boats can be land transported from race to race, increasing eyeball exposure, acting as billboards for the series.


Hull cost under 6 figures. No privateers, all hulls must carry sponsorship, but no sponsorship can be greater than $25k. One hull per team per season. You break it, you fix it, or drop out. Two suites of sails per season. It keeps the costs contained and the racing interesting.

a crew of 4. no more, no less. 

Three cameras per boat, on every boat, with open mics. When you hear the scrambling, the yelling, the cursing, the skewed POV from a trapeze, slow can be gripping and exciting.

Small course. Helicopters are expensive, so aerial, big picture coverage is expensive. A small three point course can be covered by a blimp or a drone.

A race every weekend, from harbourfronts, not club based. Inland as well as ocean racing. Maximum exposure, and maximum excitement. You could create a freshwater/saltwater rivalry- How well do you think Dennis Conner would do on Lake Lanier, for example?

No qualifying. If you can raise the budget, and outfit the boat, you can race. period. Maybe it will get a little more personality into a bland sport.


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## AE28

Sailormon6 said:


> Yacht racing will never be a major spectator sport in this country, because people who have never sailed can't relate to it. In order to really get into a sport, you have to relate to it. You can't really relate to a sport unless you have played it, and most people in this country have never sailed.


S'mon:
I'm not really sure I agree with you. I can't prove it, but I believe the VAST majority of folks who watch basketball, football and/or baseball have never played the game(s) beyond sandlot.
 
Paul


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## smackdaddy

Compare the Vendee and the VOR (especially the Vendee) to an Everest expedition or even to crab fishing in the Bering sea. How many in the audiences for these shows/events have ever done these things - how many really understand the intricacies of crab fishing or mountaineering? So I don't buy the premise that it can only be an insider thing - or that it's intrinsically boring.

I think it's about the coverage of the extreme side of the sport. That's what draws interest and eyeballs. How do you make a "Deadliest Catch"/"Beyond the Limit" out of the Vendee or VOR?


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## tommays

Racing is in decline because the cost is FUBAR ABSURD 

We are still planing are Block Island Race Week and when the total cost came out we decided to stop the bus and think about it for a week 

Just to enter the boat ,dock it and THEN buy tickets (70 bucks per person) for the daily awards and a drink is 3000 dollars 

Then you have to rent a house and rent a ferry ride for your car to bring food because the local food prices are about double (about 800 bucks per crew ) 

So your looking at spending and easy 7000 dollars


I dont want to even think what people who truck around a big boat are spending


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## Bene505

I think it's the camera technology and bandwidth for the video links. Look at professional poker. Poker as a sport was nothing until you got to see the hole cards. The same could be done for boats. 3 self-leveling cameras minimum, one at the helm, one wide-angle at the mast top (for rounding marks), one at the instruments and winch grinders. Live microphones.

All of Nascar uses multiple laps. The courses for sailboat racing should need to go through 50 laps, so crews have to deal with crowds and boats of differing speeds. Now THAT would make it interesting. With that many laps, the course could be other than a triangle too. Make it a square or an octagon. (We are talking about releatively low speeds, so make it a figure 8 and you'd really have some fun!)

It also needs a person who does for sailboat racing what Madden did for football -- live explanations for why certain things were happening.

Think of sea-side stadiums and crowds of people. The air-races got this right, when they went from Reno to towns/waterfronts all over.

Right now, it's as interesting to watch as the Boston marathon. I mean, who has watched even a piece of the Boston marathon, let alone hours of it?


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## blt2ski

I've watched a few marathons before. Frankly, like golf, IF you understands what is going on, while watching someone "jog" per say for 26 miles does not seem interesting, it is in that you do see the people tire, how their arms start to tire, stride sometimes becomes off beat, watch carefully you see how the sun, heat and humidity in some area's start to screw up the runners system, concentration and breathing etc. 

Having watched some of the Key west vids by jobson, those are interesting to some degree too, listening, watching etc. BUT, like all things, it can get better! cams are getting smaller, remember when the indy 500 got its first cam in the cockpit? Or foot ball with a helmet cam too! 

The other that needs to happen, is NOT just show the big boys at these events, granted it is fun to see the J-Boats like now at Antigua, or the AC boats, V70's etc, but even watching the lasers etc at the olympics was fun, when I could get a good feed, and not have delays. The folks talking about wind shifts, why one person went this way, another that way etc. 

But, to some degree things need to calm down in cost. Not sure that the Mumm 30. Laser SB3 type boats are/were good for the sport, I am in the yes/no camp. Altho the old IOR boats initially with the cheaper fiberglass boats of the late 60's into the 70's WAS good for the sport, altho probably some of the WORST designed boats in may years, if not century's! came out of this era. 

The current IRC boats IMHO are what we need. A bit of a throw back to IOR, where a fast boat with a reasonably decent interior is to be expected in the design. Now if the prices could get down so that the ave person could afford one! this might help.

Now for kicks and giggles, any one know what the most popular sport was in 1900?










hit the birdie! hit the birdie!


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## artbyjody

The laments of the decline of racing sail boats is akin to wondering why Disco died... how could it?

IMHO - just too expensive, and practically every local race requires one to be a member of a club (like the old days of golf), renew up certs every year... and the rating system sucks for anything not competing in a OD category. Coupled with the fact weekends and jobs are not what they were in previous eras (is there really a 9 to 5 job anymore) - that also leaves the timing, acquirement of crew etc...


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## paulk

I'd like to add that the IRC is contributing to the demise of racing by diluting the pool of possible racers. With PHRF, local conditions and results of the BOAT determine the rating, (in theory, at least). So if you aren't such a great sailor, you can't buy a trophy, regardless of the boat you buy. There are TENS OF THOUSANDS of PHRF racers in the US, so there is more competition for the three prize-winning slots awarded in most races. IRC sets up a separate division so you can race against fewer contestants. This essentially guarantees more silver to those wanting less actual competition. Compare the numbers of PHRF (and equivalent) and IRC certificates, worldwide. If you can afford an exorbitant "measurement fee" for what is supposed to be a state-of-the-art secret rule that changes every year so you need a new boat every year to be competitive, go ahead. PHRF represents the reality of actual results and real sailors who are interested in testing their skills. IRC gives those who want to buy silver for their mantlepieces an option that isn't available with PHRF. In order to have enough boats to make a decent fleet, Race Committees have been pressured by IRC to require boats (like mine) which are fast enough to be competitive to race under IRC. I refuse to get an IRC certificate, and therefore only race in PHRF competitions. There may be many more sailors like me out there. We want to race, but not under conditions dictated by an outfit in London which seems to favor those with deeper pockets than ours. This may be why there is a "decline" in racing.

On another level, perhaps it depends upon what you count as "racing". If you only count America's Cup, racing in 2008 was... nonexistant. If you count every dinghy at each three-minute frostbite start, 2008 numbers could be huge. Perhaps people have been chased out of cruising boat competition by the high costs of trying to compete under a consistantly changing IRC rule that requires new boats all the time, and they are racing dinghies instead. People are still competitive. Let's keep our eyes open and see what positive trends we can capitalize on.


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## night0wl

Simple math.

youth sailboat sailing - $$$$
youth basketball...$12 at walmart for a ball and a public park


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## ericread

*Newport-to-Ensenada Yacht Race Runs into Head Winds*

Here's an exerpt from the LA Times on the pettyness surrounding the Newport to Ensenada Yacht Race:

The number of entries is down amid the sinking economy and a fear of Mexico's drug violence. Now, a competing race is being launched at the same time amid a simmering feud.

By Mike Anton 
6:51 PM PDT, April 22, 2009 
The annual Newport-to-Ensenada International Yacht Race has long been to competitive sailing what Olympic swimming would be if Michael Phelps shared the pool with a gaggle of guys in inner tubes towing a keg of beer.

Some take what's billed as the largest international yacht race seriously. Most, however, treat it as a floating party. Running out of wind at sea is an obstacle second to running out of adult beverages.

Not this year. The sinking economy and a fear of Mexico's drug violence have buffeted the 62nd annual race. The number of entries is down -- about 270 are expected compared with nearly 400 last year -- and the crowd of people who have traditionally driven to Ensenada for a weekend of partying is expected to be considerably thinner.

If the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression and spiraling narco wars weren't enough, organizers are dealing with a third headache: a long-simmering feud between a handful of sailors that will boil over into public view at 11 a.m. Friday, an hour before the race begins.

That is when more than 100 boats will take off from Newport Beach in the inaugural Border Run. Billed as the beginning of a "new tradition," the race, which finishes with a party in San Diego, is the outgrowth of a dispute between a Huntington Beach boat designer and the nonprofit Newport Ocean Sailing Assn., which denied him entry into its Ensenada race.

At issue is whether Randy Reynolds' R33 twin-hulled catamaran -- likened to a Ferrari on water -- is unsafe because it is prone to capsizing. The Newport sailing association believes it is. Reynolds insists it is not.

Ensenada race officials say the Border Run -- which has been promoted, in part, as being "safer" than venturing into Mexico -- is a crass and bitter attempt by Reynolds to undermine a venerable Southern California tradition.

Reynolds said he is only trying to promote competitive sailing by offering an option that welcomes all boats. He dismisses the men who run the Newport sailing association, who are on the down slope of middle age and use the salutation commodore, as "the blue blazers" -- an old-guard out of touch with today's adrenaline-fueled action sports.

"We're the crazy people," said Reynolds, who is 53 but comes across as having the aggressiveness of a 23-year-old. "We like speed."

Critics say Reynolds is being uncorinthian -- a smack down that would leave most landlubbers reaching for a dictionary.

"In sailing, when you say someone is being uncorinthian, you're saying the person does not conduct themselves in a gentlemanly manner," said Jerry Montgomery, a retired government attorney who is this year's Newport-to-Ensenada uber commodore. "Scheduling another race on the same day was just wrong -- an in-your-face spiteful thing."

Politics pervades the culture of sailing -- from local yacht clubs competing for prominent members to the ongoing legal war between racing syndicates from three nations over the next America's Cup, the sport's premier event.

Earlier this month, a New York court ruled against a Spanish sailing club and said billionaire software mogul Larry Ellison's U.S. team and his backers have the right to negotiate terms for the next race with the current Swiss-backed champions.

The hubbub over this year's conflicting armadas shoving off from Newport Beach is being played out in Internet chat rooms where sailors take on serious issues (the actual danger of traveling to Baja) as well as juvenile ones (offensive swipes at each other's heterosexuality.)

"It's like being back in high school," Reynolds said. "It's crazy."

The 125-nautical-mile Newport-to-Ensenada race is steeped in history. First run in 1948, the event has attracted celebrities such as Humphrey Bogart and Walter Cronkite, as well as serious racers including America's Cup winner Dennis Conner, Roy Disney and the late Steve Fossett.


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## zz4gta

I joke around with my friend when they ask if I'll be sailing this weekend. I tell them sailing in the US is illegal, and I'm still doing it, but don't tell anyone. 

Compare costs to any other sport. Start up and or maintenance costs. Either is a nail in the coffin. That pretty much covers sailing. Not to mention the time it takes. A race isn't going to end in an hour and a half like soccer. 

Racing, let me put it this way, I wanted to do the Annapolis to Newport race. Oh, you need a life raft. $30 per crew member including skipper, plus $575 registration fee, and a minimum 30' LOA boat. Plus slip and or launching fees. Oh and that's assuming you're sleeping on your boat. This does not include food, party tickets, or beer. 

1.50 / ft for transient slip in annapolis (yeah right) = $45 one day
1.50 / ft for transient slip in newport (yeah right) = $45 one day
reg. fee = $575
6 crew members = $180
life raft rental = $100-200 for 6 person?

You're looking at $1,000 without buying food, beer, party tickets, or a single hotel room. Let me ask this, what the HELL does my $575 pay for? Why are they charging my crew $30 a head? These things should be spelled out, and public information. Sailing is expensive enough w/o organizers trying to retire early after hosting one event. 

Southern bay race week? $140 entry fee + slip fees for 3 days of racing + slip fees for 2 days of travel, oh yeah, and they charge you for party tickets, and then you still have to pay for your beers. For what? A POS (piece of silver)? Give me a nylon ribbon, a pat on the head, and 2 free drink tickets. These entry fees are rediculous, and the number one reason I can't make the larger events. 

I want to race, closest one to me would require me to give up my FREE slip and pay for one on Solomon's island. Southern Maryland Sailing association member costs $440. Ummm why? I have my own f*(king boat? For me, I get a huge discount of $220 just b/c I'm under 30. You know what, I'm actually considering spending that obscene amount of money so I can race on a regular basis with my own boat (which will give newbies a chance to get into racing). 

Sailing has been an elitists sport for far to long, and the "haves" like it that way. It keeps the "have nots" off the water and out of the YC.


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## smackdaddy

Okay - now we're getting somewhere. It sounds like tradition, arcane and overly complex rules, and expense is killing the sport. So let's do this - let's take out the "middle". In other words, nuke all the club sailing - which is actually the most boring stuff to watch for a typical spectator anyway. Hell, let's even nuke the AC. And let's figure out what "extreme sailing" looks like.

Let's compare it to mountain climbing. "Beyond the Limit" is a pretty successful television show. It's about climbers tackling Everest. And it's pretty freakin' gripping. Now think about all the logistical issues with making a show like that. Could it possibly be any more difficult than covering an extreme sailing event?

So - what makes "Beyond the Limit" so appealing then? The life and death nature of it? The skill level of the participants? The personal stories? The fear factor?

My point is that EXTREME sailing events like the Vendee or VOR are very similar to an Everest expedition. The story is just not being told very well in my opinion.

So here's the next question - are the Vendee/VOR events extreme enough? Would they have to up the danger ante to make them more appealing? Or does a new race - that's just completely insane - need to happen - something that's the equivalent of summitting Everest.


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## zz4gta

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - now we're getting somewhere. It sounds like tradition, arcane and overly complex rules, and expense is killing the sport. So let's do this - let's take out the "middle". In other words, nuke all the club sailing - which is actually the most boring stuff to watch for a typical spectator anyway. Hell, let's even nuke the AC. And let's figure out what "extreme sailing" looks like.


I think nuking any midrange sailing would be counter productive. Covering it obviously wouldn't work but we still need it for ametures. Extreme sailing = extreme costs. One guy in the vendee race has 3 or 4 mortgages on his house to finance the race.

As for the rules, they are complex, but you can't do away with them. Maybe simplify them, but you need rules of how the game is played. The rules define sailing and any game/competition for that matter.



> My point is that EXTREME sailing events like the Vendee or VOR are very similar to an Everest expedition. The story is just not being told very well in my opinion.


I agree completely.



> So here's the next question - are the Vendee/VOR events extreme enough? Would they have to up the danger ante to make them more appealing? Or does a new race - that's just completely insane - need to happen - something that's the equivalent of summitting Everest.


I think the races have the excitement, its the story telling aspect of it that sucks.


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## artbyjody

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - now we're getting somewhere. It sounds like tradition, arcane and overly complex rules, and expense is killing the sport. So let's do this - let's take out the "middle". In other words, nuke all the club sailing - which is actually the most boring stuff to watch for a typical spectator anyway. Hell, let's even nuke the AC. And let's figure out what "extreme sailing" looks like.
> 
> Let's compare it to mountain climbing. "Beyond the Limit" is a pretty successful television show. It's about climbers tackling Everest. And it's pretty freakin' gripping. Now think about all the logistical issues with making a show like that. Could it possibly be any more difficult than covering an extreme sailing event?
> 
> So - what makes "Beyond the Limit" so appealing then? The life and death nature of it? The skill level of the participants? The personal stories? The fear factor?
> 
> My point is that EXTREME sailing events like the Vendee or VOR are very similar to an Everest expedition. The story is just not being told very well in my opinion.
> 
> So here's the next question - are the Vendee/VOR events extreme enough? Would they have to up the danger ante to make them more appealing? Or does a new race - that's just completely insane - need to happen - something that's the equivalent of summitting Everest.


What is club racing afterall? I know I have abit more knowledge than you when it comes to racing in general. ODs have their own boundaries when even playing PHRF - but at least they have what is relatively a level playing field.

To put in perceptive, one of the series I participated in - running aground and all that crap, still beat out a boat that had their boom snapped in two. One could argue a whole bunch of things but the fact is to so dissimilar boats being so close to the last end of the ranking would matter?

Smack - love ya as a blow up doll but this strikes new highs for you. More carnage and what more catastrophes? Vendee is a hell of alot different from the around the lake races. They have real sponsors and stuff and they are actually doing what cruisers would do if they had the balls and insensitivity to their insurance premiums.

Fact is, yacht club membership is at a premium, frankly those that continue a membership - one rarely race anyways. You get the buzz - excite it for new people..

Guess what - carnage on a non-sponsored gig is end of boating - end of story.

FYI - and i have the receipts. To get going with a C-27, full on kevlar X-10 (now yester year) 6 k for 150 jib and battened main.. for what a 10 second response time? Hence why I never notified you I have those sails for you boat..

Seriously, lack of sailing interest is three fold:

1. Yacht clubs thinking it is dued to them and thus you should buy the frills and whistles.

2. Those that know better but still show up...pay a bit extra

3. Those you do NOT, about because it would raise questions,,

Fact is, racing like Whidbey Island as an another suggested - are in thousands of dollars to play - most whom spend it have boats equal to 1.20th of their re-sale value...

Human nature to play or pure idiotic tendancy?

We all sail for dreams that only we know... for some just doing is priceless - the rest of us blog........


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## 39512

When I was a kid, I saw a photograph of Nina reaching in a big breeze and I knew I wanted to do that someday. I think US Sailing should get a couple of billboards and put up 49er or Laser photos, people who look like they are having fun. You know, the bow on shots that look like the boat is getting ready to launch itself. Get people to consider the sport. Park St. subway station in Boston has Puma stuff hanging up everywhere. People stop and look. They recognize something familiar, the puma logo, and that this sailing stuff sure looks like a sport.

Around Mass Bay, the races that draw the most participation are pursuit races. Everything from PHRF ratings -9 to 170. You get to see a little of everything and it is far less intense. No crowded mark roundings, no heavy tactical requirement, usually a reaching leg. Everybody seems to be having fun, sometimes with alot of beer. The Figawi and the Flip Flop are very well attended by cruisers and racers.

I think someone needs to write a screenplay with sex, drugs, rock and roll, and boats. Like a Tarantino remake of Wind. Without the womper.


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## GeorgeB

Sailboat racing just isn't popular in the US. In Europe, and especially France, on the other hand, it is. Go figure. I know that they tried to promote the 49r, 29r and the Aussie Skiffs out here as spectator races (and they used the NASCAR hook - "come for the crashes and wipe-outs"). But it just didn't take, just like when they tried to bring the Red Bull Air Racing to the Bay. Sailing is one of those things that is more fun doing than watching.

In the olden days the PHRF was developed so that all us Tupperware drivers could compete ("run what ya brung") and the go fast guys were all in one design. The formula was too successful insomuch that OD racing is on the wane and the go-fast boys are now competing in PHRF which is driving us family wagon guys way down in the standings. If your goal in life is to race and win, buy that go-fast boat and make the commitment otherwise find other goals to pursue. Heck, I haven't finished higher than 4th racing Freya during the past few years and I'm still loving it.

<O</OYes, racing is expensive, but so is sailing. Having put on a couple of regattas in my time, I can tell you that they are at best a break-even proposition. If you want to race for free, find someone else to pay for it, just don't look at me.

<O</OExplain to me how the rules are complicated? There's not that many of them and they are designed for collision avoidance and to keep you safe. What's hard about that?

<O</ONorthern California seems to be bucking the trend in race participation. I've been in four races so far this year and all have had a hundred or more registrants. Next week, we will be in one with over 300 boats. It's like racing in rush hour traffic. Smaller races are definitely easier on the nerves, but alas, their parties aren't nearly as much fun. In a way, I yearn for sailing to get less popular, to sail in solitude, not having to worry about crossing situations or wandering in front of forty J Boats, all flying spinnakers on Stb while I'm beating to windward on port. <O


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## smackdaddy

Jody - no doubt I don't have a clue about racing. But I do know something about entertainment. We all do really. To me, there are a myriad of problems with the racing side of the sport - many of which you allude to (expense, complicated rules, etc.).

For example, George you bring up a good point on the "come see the crashes" angle to get people out. Sounds great until you realize it's a tiny skiff that just kind of plops over in the water - or maybe it's even a bigger boat that broaches under spin and "leans over real far". Again, for a spectator, that's not a "crash". No explosions, no tires hurled over the wall, no ambulances, etc. It ain't no Nascar crash. So why try to market it that way?

Then you have the ratings issue which created the scenario that no spectator REALLY new who was actually winning the race. Kind of like watching a horse race with thoroughbreds, mules, shetland ponies, and pound dogs on the track at the same time (though now that I think about it - that would be more fun).

So, you guys are right that there are many strikes against sailing being adopted on a wider scale. But to me, again, one of the main issues is that there is no "Big Show" for sailing.

Obviously, it used to be the AC. But that's become a complete joke at this point. Furthermore, the "elitist" air that always surrounded it (fed by the old school Yacht Club mentality and the legal crap that's been going on with it) - make it a complete anachronism for today's audiences. Who gives a damn what these rich, whiney guys do?

On the other hand, you have the Vendee and VOR. Very simple rules - same types of boats (like Nascar) - first one around the world wins. And by the way - you'll be sailing through some really nasty crap that will beat the hell out of you. Broken boats, broken bones, rescues, etc. Now we're getting closer to Nascar.

I honestly don't think it's the expense that's holding it back. Think about the cost of Nascar. And again, the _direct goal_ is NOT to get more people into club sailing - it's to increase the public's awareness of and appreciation for racing. From that you get the trickle down.

So if sailing had a "Big Show" that was freakin' scary and awe inspiring (like an Everest Expedition or, to the audience that likes that kind of thing, The Daytona 500) - and if it were covered to bring those personal stories and that danger and adventure to life - wouldn't it work to push the sport up a few notches?

And if this were the case, wouldn't it serve to feed the club races, etc. just like Tiger Woods helped fuel the hunger for Golf, and Sig Hanson helped fuel the desire in young kids to be a chain-smoking, coffee swilling, foul-mouthed captain of a crab boat?

What do you think 39? I'm thinkin' hell yeah!


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## tommays

Trust me its the expense 

We ment last night and pulled are plans for Block Island race week 2009.

EVERYBODY has there hand out making it the most expensive one in history WTF you enter a race week and have to pay EXTRA to get in to the awards tent ?

To race around here US-SAILING,LISYRA,PHRF,and a summer series entry of 215 dollars for a NON-YACHT-club menber so i am looking at well over 400 dollars to go around the cans for and hour with my kids on wed night 

Mind you i can show up Thursday and do the same thing with 50 friends for free SO we do Thursday and i do Wed as a crew on a OPB


And i know whats involved because i was captian of J24 fleet 89 and WE did all the work to allways kept cost as low as possable


Or for example one current issue is we race on a 35' boat sunday it takes 7 crew to do spin RIGHT do we really want to spend another 150 bucks to have a hotdog and pick up the pickel dish


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## GeorgeB

The big problem with the 49er and skiff circuit was the same as when they brought the Red Bull Air Races to the Bay – Most of the action took far away from the viewers and it was cold and miserable to sit four hours in the stands as SF’s notorious fog and wind blew by. Far easier to get a hundred thousand people to swill beer in Talladega. And those folks will be buying STP, SUNCO gas and what not the next week. What will us sailors be buying? New sails? Hardly. Heck, nobody here wants to pay list price for West Marine so how are they going to afford a million bucks to sponsor an event?

Back when Larry and Roberto were still friends they did a series of match races ostensibly to scout out potential AC venues. They got Moet to sponsor and set up bleachers on Marina Green, hospitality tents at StFYC and had luminaries like Paul Cayuard give running commentary over the PA system. Was a lot of fun, but again, most of the action took place far away and they had a constant problem in keeping the race course clear of spectator boats. Needless to say, San Francisco, one of the best sailing venues on the planet, was taken off the AC venue list.

I like sailing as a niche sport. I’d rather share the water with a relatively few, skilled sailors than have to deal with a whole lot of yahoos whose only connection to sailing is watching it on TV and thinking how difficult can that be? <O


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## sailingmum

bljones - I think you've got it. Having raced in the 40 footers & windsurfers in the 80's, then given it up, your description might get me back in the game. And the times might be right for it. It wouldn't just be who has the biggest bank account.


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## stewsam

GeorgeB said:


> The big problem with the 49er and skiff circuit was the same as when they brought the Red Bull Air Races to the Bay - Most of the action took far away from the viewers and it was cold and miserable to sit four hours in the stands as SF's notorious fog and wind blew by. <O


have you seen the racing in swimming pools with the big fans, i really enjoy watching that, but it's a long way from the racing i'd take part in myself..?


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## zz4gta

stewsam said:


> have you seen the racing in swimming pools with the big fans, i really enjoy watching that, but it's a long way from the racing i'd take part in myself..?


Very true, and have you seen the price of those things? A cool $$ grand for a RC boat.


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## stewsam

Not RC boats!! Dinghys!

ISAF : Presti Wins Swimming Pool Race


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## smackdaddy

stew - dude, not exactly what I had in mind.


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## zz4gta

smackdaddy said:


> Then you have the ratings issue


You could suggest to the YC that PHRF ratings shall be displayed on the transom in letters no smaller than 6" tall. It would help, simple cheap fix.



> Obviously, it used to be the AC. But that's become a complete joke at this point. Furthermore, the "elitist" air that always surrounded it (fed by the old school Yacht Club mentality and the legal crap that's been going on with it) - make it a complete anachronism for today's audiences. Who gives a damn what these rich, whiney guys do?


This will be hard to overcome. Too many people (like GeorgeB, no offense) like being able to do something out of the ordinary, they like the challenge that sailing provides. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm just saying there are people out there that don't want to share sailing with the masses. They enjoy the upper crust company found at Annapolis yacht club and aren't in anyway interested in lowering the YC membership fees to boost numbers.



> On the other hand, you have the Vendee and VOR. Very simple rules - same types of boats (like Nascar)


Like one design, which has turned into a hypocracy of itself. The original plan of OD was to keep costs down by making everyone race the same boat. J boats know this, that's why J24 are still expensive, not b/c they're a great boat, only reason is that they have a strong OD fleet. Now you need to have the lightest (most expensive) equipment and new sails every 2 years to even dream of keeping up. PHRF, not so much. PHRF is more like racing in the Trans am series, or LaMans. Different cars on the same track at the same time.



> I honestly don't think it's the expense that's holding it back.


Buy ONE single laminate sail and then tell me it ain't expensive. Buy 100 feet of 3/8" warpspeed line for a halyard ($2.82+shipping = just under $300, oh btw you'll need atleast 3 halyards = $800), and tell me its not the money.



> Think about the cost of Nascar. And again, the _direct goal_ is NOT to get more people into club sailing - it's to increase the public's awareness of and appreciation for racing. From that you get the trickle down.


 I agree, but corporate sponsors are not interested in a sport that the general public doesn't give 2 shats about. How many american kids play soccer, baseball, basketball, football, etc. now think about how many sail. People don't know the rules of racing b/c they haven't raced or seen it on TV. Everyone in the US knows what a first down in football means.



> So if sailing had a "Big Show" that was freakin' scary and awe inspiring (like an Everest Expedition or, to the audience that likes that kind of thing, The Daytona 500) - and if it were covered to bring those personal stories and that danger and adventure to life - wouldn't it work to push the sport up a few notches?


history plays a big part in the dayona 500. We need to get the AC back on track and out of the hands of Erne$to. That would be a great start.


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## smackdaddy

Good post zz. I think the paradox here is on the one hand trying to figure out how to make "club" racing more appealing to and popular for the "masses", and on the other, how to capture the adventure and excitement of extreme sailing. And, as you point out, they are really 2 completely separate things.

The crux of your argument is that the public doesn't give "2 shats about sailing". True. But the question remains: why? 

It can't be just the expense factor - else there wouldn't be widespread interest in stuff like Nascar. And it can't be just the "elitist" factor - else, again, people wouldn't care about guys like Penske or Andretti and the teams they run. On the contrary, you have a huge base of southerners that drop loads of money into their '74 Novas for the Friday night races.

So is it rules? You bring up soccer. Rewind 20 years and how many kids played it in the US? How many understood the rules? And what's the saturation of the sport now in the US? We may still suck at it on an international stage - but there sure are a lot of kids playing it on weekends now.

At the end of the day - I have no idea how to fix the club racing issues (PHRF/OD/whatever). But, I don't think that's the area to focus. That's where the boredom is. It'll never work to ignite interest in the sport.

As far as helping the public toss out at least one shat about the sport - I still think that having some compelling event at the top of the sport, with exciting televised coverage of it - would go a long way toward doing that. And I'd personally vote the Vendee or VOR for that event over the AC any day. It just needs better coverage.

Either that, or I've woefully underestimated the appeal of pool/fan sailing.


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## artbyjody

It'll never be that popular. Just not in the times. Back in the days before most of us - entertainment was as easy as switching the channel on a 100+ live in your home deal. When sailing was the "thing", it was because there was nothing to distract them and having an opportunity to hang out and be part of an event was the social norm. I really do not think it is so today.

Look at the sports pages, very little is given to local 3K events (running). Back when - you had a local 3K race it was at least covered in one major news source. As stated - most of the racing news in the PNW centers merely around carnage. Not really a spectator sport (like sitting and whiffing in co2 emissions in a stand watching cars go round and round in a circle (who said golf was boring)). 

The more popular events in the PNW - are ones that provide some kinda entertainment venue. The Elliot Bay Downtown series for example - free to enter, the SYC hosts a free food and drinks - and if you are are a sailor and wanting to capitalize then - you get to the finish before everyone else and eats and drinks what is at hand. Pull in under the "sail until it is impossible" - you'll be greeted at the clubhouse with a smiles and not a bev unless you bring your own - good times none the less. Mind you this a race with the only real rule - don't hit anyone (other than that sail - motor - do what ya have to). 

It actually has a huge turn out both sailing and spectators.

It is also probably a huge expense (this year Bank of America is no longer the sponsor and now it is Audi).

As for overall popularity, YCs don't have the money or the inclination to make it a spectator sport. They are lucky just to have a race, participaints and the what nots. The problem with sailing and racing now a days it all falls under the pretense "you have to solicit money to make money, so have them spend theirs" and the sailing community as it dwindles is ok to do spend that money. It is no longer about a real sport in terms of participating. No real drama related stories about comeback kids or anything - club racing is predicatable as it stands and that provides about interest as a bunch of 1st timers to golf playing to win a million dollar prize against "Tiger".


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## smackdaddy

Okay - so, Chall, how do we produce a "Deadliest Catch" version of the VOR next year? What are the logistics. We need to make this happen.


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## zz4gta

Character development for starters.


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## chall03

Smack,

Ok let me say from the outset as someone who is involved in Television and sailing, that my stance is that there is absolutely no reason why the two shouldn't be a great combination.

Having said that, I have been involved (at just a production level I must add) with the coverage of the Sydney to Hobart race in Australia on a few occasions with two different networks, and have always been bitterly disappointed with coverage that really failed to deliver to on its potential.

I agree that an event like the VOR is extreme enough and exciting enough that it should hold huge intrinsic interest.......Rob Mundle an Australian sailing journalist managed to write a best-seller( locally anyway) on it a few years back called 'Ocean Warriors'. It told the tale of the people and the phenomenal journey, and it's success is proof enough that this is definitely an event that people are interested in.

Logistically Smack?, well the moment you wanna do anything live it becomes a pain in the ass. 

That has always been our problem with Sydney to Hobart we cover the start live, but with a limited budget and only a couple of cameras on a couple of boats, and so a few chopper shots of a bunch of boats in a harbour becomes old very quickly, and does not really convey the tension, adrenaline and anticipation that makes a Sydney to Hobart start line an unbelievably exciting place.

I think VOR would be similar, Start lines are exciting. This is where you get to show the andrenaline of yacht racing. This is the 'action-packed' bit.

I think then however on passage, you need to move past 'sport coverage' mode and then more into telling the stories. 

Logistically I think it is all about having camera's and mic's on the yachts. Lots of unmanned Lipstick cameras, getting the crew to do video diaries etc. Interviews with them via Satellite Video Phone. 
I think getting TV folk on the yachts would be hard. No VOR yacht wants the extra weight of a crew member who can't sail, is going to get in the way, not do watches and add unnecessary weight. A satellite uplink on every boat would mean you can turn the stuff around quickly (a couple of hours) to get something to air.

There is a couple of thoughts Smack, I need to reserach a bit more what they do logistically for the VOR now. I think the regular update shows etc they are doing are of a very similar nature to what I suggested above, so maybe the question is, if you haven't answered it already, what don't you like specifically about the current VOR coverage??


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## smackdaddy

Chall - thanks for the feedback mate. I knew you'd have some good insight.

Honestly I think the problem of the current race is that it is either "live" coverage of the race OR an after-the-fact documentary, both of which miss the mark.

I assume you're familiar with "Deadliest Catch"? That's more along the lines of what I'm talking about from a production/storytelling perspective. The after-the-fact, episodic nature of that show takes the logistics (and potential boredom) of live coverage out of the equation. It mitigates the risk - since the risk is so high already. They shoot during the several weeks of the two crabbing seasons (HDV on the boats, HD for everything else) - then bring back the footage, pull the story lines, edit it down, film more backstory as needed, then release it over 10+ episodes the following season. This also gives them a good deal of time to mine the story, get great b-roll, do back stories, etc. There's no time crunch in trying to coincide coverage as it happens - it's more about telling the story and putting the viewer there. And it's been a HUGE hit.

This is the kind of production approach I'm talking about. It could work for the VOR - at least from a production logistics approach.

The big hitch in it all, as you rightly point out, is having a production crew on the boats. To make this happen - I don't really see a way around that. Otherwise you're doing nothing new. They're already using lipstick cams, fully wired audio, sailor interviews, etc. But they're still missing the excitement.

So how do you get a skeleton crew of 2 on a race boat where minimalism is key? That I don't know. But, the more important question is why is everyone leaving SO much money and overall value for their event/sport on the table by not telling the story well? There has to be a way. 

For example, maybe you enter 4 "production" boats into the race. They are skippered/crewed by pros but with the understanding that it's about the story, not necessarily winning the race. Although, of course, there would be a very tasty bonus on the table for any production boat that won. You could then rig the hell out of these boats and put people in the drivers' seat. The skippers and crew accept the challenge of being overweight and short-handed and will still race like hell. And the sponsors of these boats get a great deal of coverage. Everybody wins.

Hell, I'd watch it. If we're going to do this we'd better get started now!


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## chall03

smackdaddy said:


> Chall - thanks for the feedback mate. I knew you'd have some good insight.
> 
> Honestly I think the problem of the current race is that it is either "live" coverage of the race OR an after-the-fact documentary, both of which miss the mark.
> 
> I assume you're familiar with "Deadliest Catch"? That's more along the lines of what I'm talking about from a production/storytelling perspective. The after-the-fact, episodic nature of that show takes the logistics (and potential boredom) of live coverage out of the equation. It mitigates the risk - since the risk is so high already.


I am familiar with the "Deadliest Catch"....
I think you have hit upon it, get away from live coverage and make sure you put something together, that is well shot, and where you have the time to make sure that it really hits the mark. The problem is these days, the benchmark is real high. There is no tolerance for anything but a well told, well shot, well put together kick ass story.



smackdaddy said:


> The big hitch in it all, as you rightly point out, is having a production crew on the boats. To make this happen - I don't really see a way around that. Otherwise you're doing nothing new. They're already using lipstick cams, fully wired audio, sailor interviews, etc. But they're still missing the excitement.
> 
> So how do you get a skeleton crew of 2 on a race boat where minimalism is key? That I don't know. But, the more important question is why is everyone leaving SO much money and overall value for their event/sport on the table by not telling the story well? There has to be a way.


I think like many other sports, the race needs to to evolve to incorporate TV. 
I mentioned cricket in my above post, when we started covering cricket properly in Oz, KP went and started his very own world cup with coloured uniforms and all. (The traditional white cricket getup didn't do it for him). He also decided that week long test's were boring, so he introduced 'one day cricket'. Then to hit primetime he also commissioned Nine Network engineers to ensure that cricket ovals could be lit at night so that the game could be a 'daynighter'. (At the time unheard of and radical). 
Smack, I think the two production boats idea might be hard to execute. Why not simply state that one member of every boat needs to trained in and competent as a Cameraman/sound recordist. So you have it down to one person on the boat, and it can be a sailor who is has or is required to get extensive media training.

Alternatively we have on several occasions in Sydney to Hobarts, put a Journalist/producer and a Cameraman on boats with 6 months sail training. The first time the Journo spent 5 days spewing off the back of the boat and he just got in the way but we did it 

Either way, if it is a requirement that every boat has to meet then its a level playing field so all is good. Your right you then have crews on the dock, etc shooting backstory, and interviews, make sure you have a kick ass DOP in a chopper/Chase boat getting AMAZING vision.


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## smackdaddy

Cool - then I think I have a proposal to write! One other technical thing I've wondered about is how they get the really smooth boat-to-boat shots in "Deadliest Catch" when they're in 7+ meter seas. You think they're using a Wescam setup on a mount? Anyway - that needs to be another angle...chase boats filming the action.

This is going to be fun.

PS - Were you the spewing journo?

(What do you other racing types think? What logistical issues have we missed? Is it worth screwing with the crewing a bit to get wider interest and money into the sport?)


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## jarcher

Bene505 said:


> I think it's the camera technology and bandwidth for the video links. Look at professional poker. Poker as a sport was nothing until you got to see the hole cards. The same could be done for boats. 3 self-leveling cameras minimum, one at the helm, one wide-angle at the mast top (for rounding marks), one at the instruments and winch grinders. Live microphones.


Strange I should run across this. I own a server colocation company and a friend of mine hosts streaming video for his customers.

We were thinking it would be cool to put a camera on the mast head and a few more pointing various ways, like on the port and starboard sides. This would be very cool at the start and mark roundings. For so so pictures, we could use a Sprint data card to upload the feeds. I might just do it for the heck of it. I doubt many will watch though...


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## jarcher

Okay how about this... We'll start an Internet based sailboat racing channel. We can do it like that Survivorman show. All the cameras will be on board. Each boat needs a few web cams and a data cart to upload their video. We could have a course graphic and use AIS to plot the position of each boat. We could have a commentator I guess, to make it a bit more interesting.

This is a cheap way to reach a big audience...


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## smackdaddy

Jarch - I think that's the problem. In other words, it's not about doing it "inexpensively" it's about doing it "well" - which is not inexpensive.

Most of what you lay out is already being done with the VOR and Vendee. But what's missing is the "story". It's just news at this point. And only diehards will follow that.

One achilles heel on the approach that I was discussed in the Chall is that the VOR is a 4 year race. It either needs to go to 2 years - or we need to find another bunch of sailors that are willing to round the horns every year or two for a case of rum!

Who's in?


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## OsmundL

smackdaddy said:


> Hell, I'd watch it. If we're going to do this we'd better get started now!


Smack, you are onto a great thing here.

First, they are separate issues. I am interested in how to achieve good media coverage, specifically TV/internet. All the issues around race participation and costs are separate and peripheral to this issue - and incidentally, a non-issue in Europe where all classes from youngsters in dinghies to production boats in cruiser races are well attended. After all, F1 racing has a respectable audience, yet you can count, say, 30 drivers and teams in the whole world? Volvo Ocean Race, the same. They are not "people" sports, yet they inspire.

Like *Smack*, I have tried desperately to watch a sailing race with enthusiasm, but every time they kill it. It is, as *Chall03* says, a case of knowing how to tell the story. What you said about the Sydney to Hobart is right on.

I was a fanatic follower of F1 while getting the BBC coverage and their superb commentators. It was a treat to hear them add technical or personal detail minute by minute while the cars went around and around monotonously, sometimes with fewer than half a dozen overtakings in hours of racing. Inboard cams, curb cams and the rest added some excitement, but without a story it was still nothing. Only when I lost the BBC coverage did I realise how boring F1 was. Or perhaps it was when I attended an F1 event in person for the first and only time: _you_ may get excited by standing along a track where you can see one car at a time fly past every few minutes, hour after hour, but I'd rather peel potatoes.

I am sure we've all met the frustration of camera angles from our own sailing; you take forever the same shots from the cockpit, preferably in good weather when water doesn't blind the lens; you get no real impression of the swell and waves. The camera by the chart table is possibly the greatest disappointment; ironically, because it follows the boat's movements, you get no impression that the crew is holding on for life and rocking from side to side. Everything looks calm, it makes no sense.

In so-called TV coverage of races, there's a follower boat or when extravagant a helicopter, and they mostly cover one boat at the time. Unless the boat is literally about to sink, nothing much changes along the way. The Vendee Globe was possibly the best covered in this respect, but even they had to skip the tougher parts in the Southern Ocean because boats and helicopters couldn't keep up that far from land.

I believe it could be done, and we should not underestimate audiences. Non-sailors may not have intimate knowledge of knots and sail angles, but they grasp tactics. They would indeed be fascinated to hear more details of sail choices and changes explained, to get inside the head of the captains and join them in pondering impossible choices. BTW, this counts against having the perfect real-time coverage, because the skippers are notoriously secretive about their tactics.

I totally disagree that races need be boring TV. In the last Vendee Globe, one skipper caught the attention of thousands of viewers. Samantha Davies had none of the macho skipper nonsense, but let us into her cramped world and showed us dirty socks, sharing meals with us, and occasionally proving in brief flashes what a superb sailor she is. It was a story.

The other element to keep up interest in these excruciatingly long races was the accompanying VG online racing game. Racing in real-time with the identical weather forecast, several hundred thousand (!) participants competed online for 2 months, and had the real world progress of the skippers to compare against. If you had seen me get up in the night to adjust to wind shifts, or if I had admitted (blushing) that I acquired 3G mobile internet just for the purpose, you would understand the level of obsession a sailing race can engender. I just had to get the mobile access because I could not bear to miss a course change; I spent much time in a car at that stage, and would stop by the roadside to log on and optimize my "boat".

We have heard time and time again of sports that "cannnot" be made into spectator events, and each time we were wrong. Poker? Billiards? Golf? Cricket? Marathon? Seriously, Tour de France?

The technical challenges cannot be ignored, but I am convinced that the guy who comes up with a storyline would turn sailing into a superb spectator sport. Let it be me! I'd make a fortune.


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## artbyjody

In season four.... Crew mates Jason and Grady, both greenhorns .. both with different stories to tell. Tell us what happened in the tragic go-aground event that beset the name of the boat they were recruited to be on - "Hello Grounded". 

We talk about the Bering Sea and the wintress mistress one hopes to be on good terms with. All the while those brave sailors onboard the finest fishing vessels that luckily pull a "check" at the end of the season are those that are not in the race in the miserable and unpredictable conditions of the PNW.

There is a huge difference in the displacement of most of these boats that rely merely on skill and aptitue of their vessels to find that soltice in nerve wracking conditions, that would make the casual sailor merely puke their liquid lunch at the first instance of a vidoed roll...

No sir, you are looking at at least 4-5 greenhorns that wonder if a making a sheet requires them to get the folds military perfect. They will never spend time below because the sheets are fledgling as we write this.

A 26 foot Oflen, with a crew of 5 are trying to make the distance. They Rounded the start with a bit of a delay as the skipper negotiated with the onboard wench on whether there was real cream or that dried stuff to make his coffee. It didn't really matter as the crew was already wnating a shot of anything to compensate them for being out in ice, sleet, and no wind.

Crew member "joe" on "Hello I am Grounded" joked abot the name of the boat and in the subsequent grounding - was the hero. His falling overboard and being pinched in between the hull and the knife robbbing rocks - cushioned the vessel so they did not take on water. He liked 2 doses of cream and 3 packets of sugar btw.

Yes, not the VOR... but local racing can have the same excitement - just those that race it do not see it.. Nor do anyone that doesn't do it - its all ...........


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## OsmundL

artbyjody said:


> ....local racing can have the same excitement - just those that race it do not see it.. Nor do anyone that doesn't do it - its all ...........


What has been missing so far is a movie director's hand in sailing stories. A moviemaker, or writer, knows the ingredients that must be included before you have a script and a plot. Here are just a few of the glaring omissions in most racing videos:

1.	Dialogue. Intense, moment-by-moment exchanges between crew, anger, despair, elation, conflict. Not "dialogue" like in America's Cup or Volvo Ocean Race, where the skipper politely answers a journalist's questions - not handicam reports from a skipper telling you how the day went, and of course giving only his filtered perspective.
2.	A Start and an End: the story must get you inside the crew before the race, there must be real persons you can follow; you must have clues so that you can anticipate conflicts, failures and victories. An End - it's not over when a boat crosses the line, you have the reactions onboard, maybe their friends ashore, perhaps hints of where they go from here.
3.	Several sub-plots: while the main story is the race, you cannot kill time for very long just watching boats progress. There must be stories within the story: People stories, but it could also be equipment - they took a chance on a canting keel, it fails, they fix it, they are favorites, then underdog, then fight back.
4.	Information/education: We have to lose the dumb idea that because most people don't sail, they have no interest. The race becomes interesting when details and dilemmas are explained along the way, it is not rocket science. A couple of good commentators could drive up interest by trying to predict, by disagreeing on likely outcomes. You will then have a running commentary: "X just cannot make up ground on this leg with their hull speed" - "Yes, but you forget that they have been consistently better around the marks. Look, they will have the inside, they are going to snooker them" and so on.

Here is a sample of "Sailtubes" in the Norwegian Sailmagasinet. Purely amateur video, but you'd have to be jaded to call this boring?

http://seilmagasinet.xstream.dk/webnode//player/mediamaker_player.php?id=730

Another, more typical of amateur takes. Note the trouble with camera angles. Where would you shoot from without a clever technical setup?

http://seilmagasinet.xstream.dk/webnode//player/mediamaker_player.php?id=734

Then this, taken with a follower boat. Fast and furious, but what's missing? Close-ups, dialogue between the crew, some explanation of what's going on:
Se SOLO i 15-16 knop - SEILmagasinet online

And this? Great-looking action and plenty of heel, but don't you wish the camera had been some 6ft further forward for a wider view?

YouTube - NVEExport 0001


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## kwaltersmi

Gambling. 

That's a word that will increase the sport's popularity. Sadly (or not) many poplular sports are made so because of sportsbooks and wagering bets. Can you bet on sailing races?


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## artbyjody

It is all about the packaging. I use the "deadliest catch" as a reference because in real life - what draws the viewers is the un-predictable. They develop the crew and the skippers, in a twisted story line that makes what we all know as sailors as being boring, a necessity, and the likes into a gut quenching have to see more.

I doubt very few watch to see the "who caps the most" for the season - it is about the personal side of doing a dangerous line of work that most of us are foreign to. It adds to the drama but the underlying reason to watch is not that - its just part of the drama to include those that have the idea of risk and pay-off.

Sailing is much the same. Its boring to the larger degree of boring - unless there is a story to tell and that story always involves the suggestion of man over mother nature, incredible circumstances, and the likes... Kinda like the Bering Sea stuff - a majority of it is them in reality - sitting for days waiting. TV we see this rush adrenalin to make it happen and yes, please add in this storm for bonus viewer addiction. Distortion of reality in real terms. Sailing - hate to say it - but if it was to become a spectator sport - would require the same kinda cut and edit that Discovery does for "Deadliest Catch"...It would have the same pros and cons of course. 

do not think it would be realistic. Tv is about drama and unless you wanna be a yahoo star - we lack something on the sailing side.

1. Marketable individuals as skippers
2. Marketable individuals as crew.
3. Marketable boats..

It can be done with creative edits but what sells is carnage... most will be thankful that it didn't happen to them. None really want to go the extreme. Hell, no one ever really talks about going aground - we all do at some point though. 

Its a hard sell and one that requires snipping hundreds of hours into a 40 minute format. Most of us, never want to see that or be part of to make that happen unless its for a real video of "I own a a sailboat".. (google I am on a boat / snl).

There ya go...


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## Omatako

Too many long posts above to wade thru so my comments FWIW.

There is an important distinction to be made. Yacht racing is for *sailors *not for spectators. It's like caving, scuba, skydiving or at least a dozen other sports. None of the participants give a rats a$$ about TV. Those high profile races (Vendee, Around Alone, Volvo, et al.) have gained sponsorships thru very hard work by the participants because they couldn't afford to race without.

As far as popularity amongst sailors I guess it depends on where you are. Where I am, racing is very popular. There is a significant keel boat fleet out every week on Wednesdays and Saturdays. There are often several different races on the go at the same time. Racing is on the sport curriculum of many of the schools. There are several annual events that attract hundreds of boats of all descriptions.

This is the start of an 85nm race that takes place once a year:









It is big enough for the organisers to have three different starts because the harbour isn't wide enough to accommodate the whole fleet. There are several others that happen regularly and have been for decades.

Sailboat racing creates some problems for owners and spectators:

It's often hard to find stable and dependable crew
Some "spoil-sports" screw the pooch by unnecessary protests. The solution to this is a deposit of $500 to lodge the protest which is fully refundable only if you win (I believe in the AC, a protest potentially costs over $100k).
Spectators don't understand the rules which are, as said before, very complex. Not so for the racers because the rules are pretty stable and don't change much. Once you understand them it's easy. I am a rugby fan, a sport that also has complex rules but the damn rules keep changing.
Like I said, yacht racing at a domestic level at least, is for the sailor. Why would I want it to be popularised?


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## zz4gta

Omatako said:


> Why would I want it to be popularised?


B/c the technology trickles down to the weekend warrior. Sailing is how many hundreds of years old, and yet we now have access to carbon fiber rigs, kevlar sails, 1/4" line that holds over 2,000lbs, light weight blocks, etc. The more people we can get involved the more manufacturers will see a market. More competition, and hopefully it will drive the cost of marine parts down a bit. I don't see how any sailor can sit back and say, "I want to keep this sport for the select few". It just doens't make cents.


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## smackdaddy

OsmundL said:


> What has been missing so far is a movie director's hand in sailing stories. A moviemaker, or writer, knows the ingredients that must be included before you have a script and a plot. Here are just a few of the glaring omissions in most racing videos:
> 
> 1.	Dialogue. Intense, moment-by-moment exchanges between crew, anger, despair, elation, conflict. Not "dialogue" like in America's Cup or Volvo Ocean Race, where the skipper politely answers a journalist's questions - not handicam reports from a skipper telling you how the day went, and of course giving only his filtered perspective.
> 2.	A Start and an End: the story must get you inside the crew before the race, there must be real persons you can follow; you must have clues so that you can anticipate conflicts, failures and victories. An End - it's not over when a boat crosses the line, you have the reactions onboard, maybe their friends ashore, perhaps hints of where they go from here.
> 3.	Several sub-plots: while the main story is the race, you cannot kill time for very long just watching boats progress. There must be stories within the story: People stories, but it could also be equipment - they took a chance on a canting keel, it fails, they fix it, they are favorites, then underdog, then fight back.
> 4.	Information/education: We have to lose the dumb idea that because most people don't sail, they have no interest. The race becomes interesting when details and dilemmas are explained along the way, it is not rocket science. A couple of good commentators could drive up interest by trying to predict, by disagreeing on likely outcomes. You will then have a running commentary: "X just cannot make up ground on this leg with their hull speed" - "Yes, but you forget that they have been consistently better around the marks. Look, they will have the inside, they are going to snooker them" and so on.
> 
> Here is a sample of "Sailtubes" in the Norwegian Sailmagasinet. Purely amateur video, but you'd have to be jaded to call this boring?
> 
> http://seilmagasinet.xstream.dk/webnode//player/mediamaker_player.php?id=730
> 
> Another, more typical of amateur takes. Note the trouble with camera angles. Where would you shoot from without a clever technical setup?
> 
> http://seilmagasinet.xstream.dk/webnode//player/mediamaker_player.php?id=734
> 
> Then this, taken with a follower boat. Fast and furious, but what's missing? Close-ups, dialogue between the crew, some explanation of what's going on:
> Se SOLO i 15-16 knop - SEILmagasinet online
> 
> And this? Great-looking action and plenty of heel, but don't you wish the camera had been some 6ft further forward for a wider view?
> 
> YouTube - NVEExport 0001


Os, dude - you are speaking my language! Are you a writer/director?

You have absolutely nailed it on the head. And the above list is exactly why "Deadliest Catch" works so well - as Jody mentioned as well.

Furthermore, we could do far more with the sub-plots of a show like this via the internet and mobile apps than is currently being done for even "Deadliest Catch".

So - since we know ALL of this is available within the race - the only major questions remaining in my mind are the production logistics and the frequency of the racing as applied to a standard television season. Every 4 years is too sparse. We need something that runs every 2 (or better yet annually) in order to keep it running. But it HAS to have the "'round the horns" excitement factor to work (NOT the AC).

So - a shout out to the VOR officials...how about racing more so we can help you make some real cash?


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## smackdaddy

artbyjody said:


> It is all about the packaging.
> 
> Tv is about drama and unless you wanna be a yahoo star - we lack something on the sailing side.
> 
> 1. Marketable individuals as skippers
> 2. Marketable individuals as crew.
> 3. Marketable boats..
> 
> It can be done with creative edits but what sells is carnage... most will be thankful that it didn't happen to them.


You are absolutely right about the packaging. That's it. But I don't agree about your other "lacking" points. Have you seen the VOR and Vendee skippers and crew? Way better looking and far more fit than Sig, Phil or Keith. This would be like mixing "Survivor" with "Deadliest Catch".

Pretty people AND carnage? Dude, it's perfect!


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## OsmundL

Omatako said:


> There is an important distinction to be made. Yacht racing is for *sailors *not for spectators. It's like caving, scuba, skydiving or at least a dozen other sports. None of the participants give a rats a$$ about TV.
> ....Why would I want it to be popularised?


Familiar harbor view 

If you lived in AUS during the 80s, you know how wrong you are. There was one particular America's Cup race that held more people in their chairs than perhaps any other sports event in AUS history. When the Aussies won, the prime minister got on TV and declared it a "holiday", saying any employer who penalized yo for not coming to work that day was a ***. Of course, that race had everything. We knew "our man", the colorful Mr.Bond, he had entered with a bulb keel and angered the snotty, arrogant New York Yacht Club that had controlled the race and rules for a half century - as far as Aussies were concerned, we had an underdog and a hated enemy.

The other sports you mention have long since become spectator events. Skydiving is not media material? Whoa!

As for sailing being "for sailors", you are touching on a crucial obstacle, although perhaps not the way you meant. The English tradition filtered down to Australia and many former Commonwealth nations, and the US inherited it. It is a tradition of exclusivity, snobbery, socializing yacht club, closed memberships, money and status, and an attitude to the "sport" that is right up there with fox hunting. Why would they want it popularized, indeed?

The French, bless them, have been far more hands-on with their sailing. Rugged and rough, not fussed with appearance, intensely individualistic and competitive, they have driven the popularity of for example the single-handed events. They are, I think, the skydivers of sailing.

I would love to see sailing presented as a sport, and it can be done. First we must get rid of the toffee-nose attitude and kill off the celebrity angle, for instance the dreadful "Sail" program on TV (was it Discovery Channel?), and similar coverage that might as well have filmed the yacht club gala, since that's all they are interested in.


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## OsmundL

smackdaddy said:


> Os, dude - you are speaking my language! Are you a writer/director?


Writer/director? Well yes... and mostly "something like that".
Totally agree on the frequency of races, and I'd add one thing: Why not pick the less "technical" classes, e.g. cruising classes where many odd sorts can enter? No other sport became popularised while at its technical peak - indeed we are losing interest in some of them as "perfection" went too far.

Another Aussie example (think "Yacht Club" if you wish - I do) - is from car racing. They have had an annual race at Bathurst for "production cars", hotted up for sure, but with a strong element of self-financed small teams. It is, if I may be excused, for "yobboes", beer-swilling regular guys who camp on a hill all day to watch - but it has wider appeal and certainly did more for the sport than F1. Did I mention that mainstream TV broadcasts from morning till late afternoon, non-stop?
The worst that ever happened to Bathurst was when some factory teams got involved and it didn't appear to be a level playing field.


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## chall03

Lets not get started on Bathurst! It used to be a great TV event.


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## smackdaddy

Os - totally agree on the snobbish historical aspect. That's what has kept sailing down for so long - far more, I would say, than the expense (as well as boring races).

The other thing you hit on here regarding the "less technical" angle is the "Yobbo Factor" of lower-end racing. This one's tricky though.

If you take NASCAR ($1B- annual revenue) as an analogy and put it up against F1 ($4B annual revenue, the most lucrative sport on the planet right now) the Yobbo Factor breaks down in terms of financial appeal...which is obviously critical.

NASCAR is, globally speaking, regional to the US. It's yobbo. F1 is global. And though there is the historical "snobbish" patina applied to F1, it is far and away the money maker over NASCAR (or any other sport) from a global perspective. Furthermore, I'd argue that sailing is, from a marketing angle, much more akin to F1 (somewhat exclusive people in a sexy sport that has high-end cachet, cool technology, etc.) than it is to NASCAR (good old southern boys from the US in modified stock cars going around a circle).

So, all that to say, you either need to take the yobbo end of racing and improve it through the creation of fast, expensive "stock boats" to create a NASCAR of sailing - or you need to "dumb down" the high end of sailing A BIT to make it the F1 of the sport (this was Chall's earlier point I think). I'd say we are already trying the former on the club racing circuit - but we have not tried the latter on the world races.

Either way, you have to re-brand sailing to make it less snobby and more "dangerous", yet keep the global appeal elements of F1. I'd argue that's far easier to do by dumbing down the VOR than it is pushing up the Yobboes.

*NOW THAT I JUST WROTE ALL THAT - LET ME CHANGE MY MIND...*

I just watched "Deep Water" last night. Phenomenal picture about the 1968 non-stop-solo-circ. That race, to me, embodied the cruising class racing you mention above...the "Yabbo Factor". I was going to say that the only reason that was successful then was because of the "first ever" aspect of the endeavor. People don't care about that any more.

But, following your line of reasoning above - would it be possible to put together a race like that for insane cruisers? An "Everest: Beyond the Limit" that takes "normal cruisers" and pushes them to the limit.

Hmm...that might rate a series, eh? What do you think?

Like I said...tricky.


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## OsmundL

smackdaddy said:


> .


F1 lucrative? Is it still? At the time of writing, Ferrari and several more threaten to pull out because of new severe restraints on budgets - the organizers fear that current cost will exclude just about all except Ferrari.

*Smack*, it looks like I have to quickly retreat here  
The "yobbo" factor was an intentional overstatement. Sailors won't ever be beer-swilling skinheads, at least on TV. But there is a middle way. VOR, America's Cup and Vendee have their place, but regular folk can also be adventurous. 
I wouldn't discount a Reality series of the "lone on an island" or Last Man Standing" type for insane cruisers, but that also has its place. That's perhaps where your Everest fits in.

It is quite OK for sailing to appear _a little_ exclusive; people need to dream. But especially at the beginning of a project to _introduce_ more people, is is smart to keep exotics down and focus on technique and tactics they can grasp. I'm with you, it cannot be too simple; a Laser regatta would look too straightforward, only worth a one-time "look at them crash." Too little people interaction, too quickly over.... you knew all that.

TV here ran a series on boating, following several individuals through a season. One that caught people's imagination was a woman who had lost her husband young. They had sailed together, and her first instinct was to sell the boat and leave the memories. Luckily, she changed her mind and decided instead to become really good at it, and she started a woman's racing team on her boat. Through the season they entered touring races and trained in between. That was a story, and viewers rooted for her all through the series. So there you have one angle: bring in a relative novice and follow him/her. Viewers will pick up points along with the skipper (and why not run a virtual online race alongside every episode?)

There are countless ways to introduce drama. I'm sure you have corporate sponsorship races on the weekends, as we do? Teams from "Ninkenpoop Bank" against employees of "Gurgling Oil Inc" etc? Surely they would inerest a few? 
I can think of more mischievous constellations: set up a crew of one Jew, one Muslem, a Catholic and a black? You get it. Or put celebrities in one boat? The infamously successful "Top Gear" from BBC regularly features a celebrity racing "a moderately priced car."

There's another element. Why so private and anonymous? Who cares that "Mr. Fitzgerald, retired judge" won the local day race against "Mr. Snuffles, practising gynecologist"? Why not nation against nation, World Cup, all that? Chauvinism always draws a crowd.

Despite all of the above, I continue to have faith in a thoroughly filmed distance race, for regular to advanced cruising teams. Many stages, many arrivals in port, online tracking, perhaps even betting, but most of all people stories and enough explanation to make me want to sail and learn.

Does it sound so boring, really?


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## smackdaddy

Well, I'm certainly having fun thinking about it! I keep having to start over on my treatment dude! Too many good ideas!

Let me drink a beer over this last round and I'll get back to you.

What do you other yobboes think?


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## smackdaddy

Okay Os - I think I've got it. A solution that would make both approaches tenable. Let me work up a one pager and I'll get back to you.

This could be very sweet...very sweet indeed.


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## Omatako

OsmundL said:


> Familiar harbor view
> 
> If you lived in AUS during the 80s, you know how wrong you are. There was one particular America's Cup race that held more people in their chairs than perhaps any other sports event in AUS history. When the Aussies won, the prime minister got on TV and declared it a "holiday", saying any employer who penalized yo for not coming to work that day was a ***. Of course, that race had everything. We knew "our man", the colorful Mr.Bond, he had entered with a bulb keel and angered the snotty, arrogant New York Yacht Club that had controlled the race and rules for a half century - as far as Aussies were concerned, we had an underdog and a hated enemy.


I'll bet the 1983 AC worked well for Australia. They were the first to beat the American teams. And it was wildly exciting. Until they lost it again. 1987 never went that well. And they've never been back. I'll bet the TV coverage on sailing in Freemantle has tapered off some. I'll bet the crowds no longer flock to the beaches to watch the Sunday race, if there is one. Nor are they held in their chairs. But there probably are still a few people in Fremantle who watch the Sydney Hobart. Like they say, "One swallow does not a summer make"

And when I speak of a spectator sport I'm not talking about mums and dads turning out to watch their boy.


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## OsmundL

Omatako said:


> I'll bet the 1983 AC worked well for Australia. They were the first to beat the American teams. And it was wildly exciting. Until they lost it again. 1987 never went that well. And they've never been back. I'll bet the TV coverage on sailing in Freemantle has tapered off some. I'll bet the crowds no longer flock to the beaches to watch the Sunday race, if there is one. Nor are they held in their chairs. But there probably are still a few people in Fremantle who watch the Sydney Hobart. Like they say, "One swallow does not a summer make"
> 
> And when I speak of a spectator sport I'm not talking about mums and dads turning out to watch their boy.


My point was very simple: Sailing _can_ attract large audiences, and it often does. This month Channel 4 in Britain will show the movie from this year's Vendee Globe; and the same month will also have the prize-giving ceremony when the organizers expect 50,000-100,000 spectators. Hundreds of thousands followed the race online, and a staggering 344,000 played the accompanying online game that lasted over two months.

In Australia, the start of the Sydney to Hobart race is an obligatory part of the Christmas celebration rituals for people I mix with and apparently to a large portion of Aussies. According to the organizers, it is the third most watched sailing event after VOR and America's Cup. When you add in Fastnet, BOC challenge, Admiral's Cup and a few other high profile events, I think it is fair to say that sailing already has a media appeal surpassing quite a few sports. Sure beats high jump, javelin and orienteering.


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## OsmundL

I am going to say this only once&#8230;  
Anyone who doubts the public appeal of sailing owe it to themself to watch a brief video clip from this year's Vendée Globe. (Go to Full screen if you can)


The background is this: The Nauticsport-Kapsch yacht came in 11th and last of the finishers. 
It arrived on March 15th, a staggering 42 days after the winner.
Yet, this video shows the crowds gathered to welcome Norbert Sedlacek on arrival.
Between the winner on Feb 1 and this, _every_ contestant had been greated by enthusiastic crowds, even the many who arrived in the middle of the night.
I know Les Sables d'Olonne well: it is a long pier to fill, and the nights can be cold this time of year; it is not a metropolis where you could draw thousands from the nearest few blocks.

To me, this is not just a minor feather for sailing, it is an astonishing, awe-inspiring and virtually unmatched level of excitement and commitment compared to any sport you care to name. Where else will crowds gather, flares go off and champagne be shared time and time again over 42 days, long after the real race is over?

http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/mediatheque/videos/play/1009/

So, sailing only appeals to sailors, or to mums and dads? Yeah, right.


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## Omatako

Actually, I'm also only going to say this once . . . .

All the races that are globally televised around the world can be counted on one hand - OK maybe two hands.
The crowd that turned out to watch the last Vendee boat come in is smaller than the queue outside Wembley stadium before a game.
The Vendee Globe is probably the biggest international event enjoyed by Les Sables d'Olonne (wherever that may be) so they would turn out en-masse. They'll turn out to watch the traffic lights change.
The only flares I could see lit were by the returning sailor.
The only champagne I saw being enjoyed was by the returning sailor.
I stand by my original post: Just because a sport at the highest level is televised once in a while doesn't make it media material. More people watch Fear Factor and trash like that than watch the sailing coverage. And the local level of racing will never be routinely televised because the public at large have no interest.

I watched the shot-put in the Olympics - I wouldn't watch it any other time even if Valerie Vili came and put her shot onto my front lawn. I watch the Vendee globe and the Volvo coverage - I wouldn't watch the local racing unless it was something special (like the World Match Racing champs held in Auckland which I watched ffrom the shore). And I _*am*_ a sailor. Non-sailing viewers- you've got precious little chance of attracting them to televised "ordinary" racing.

Oh, and by the way . . . .

F1 lucrative? Is it still? At the time of writing, Ferrari and several more threaten to pull out because of new severe restraints on budgets - the organizers fear that current cost will exclude just about all except Ferrari.

Ferrari is threatening to pull out because the FIA are getting set to *CAP their budget,* not because Ferrari have financial restraints. They are happy to spend more than the cap but it means they will have an unfair technical disadvantage against them if they do. That's why they're threatening to pull out.


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## OsmundL

We can do things by dogma, or we can try to look for opportunities...
My point about Vendée Globe was simple: this crowd turned out 42 days _after_ the finish. Wembley just _before_ a game ain't the same. Of course all you say about Les Sables d'Olonne is true (and you really ought to know where it is), but I wasn't making the point that sailing is the biggest media event in the world, I meant that it has potential if we see it.

Your comment on the F1 was just a reading mistake, perhaps I was unclear. The organisers set a severe restraint on budgets because it was out of hand and many teams could not compete with e.g. Ferrari. In plain language: only 1-2 teams could get the necessary returns to justify the entry. That is what I said, wasn't it?

I continue to be an optimist, and the numbers so far indicate that there is an audience, one just has to find a presentation that works. Many sports have had that dilemma and solved it.


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## zz4gta

We are all aware of the problems, lets try to focus on the solution. I believe that ANYTHING can be put on TV. Curling is an olympic sport and is broadcasted. Sailing can't posibly be any worse than that. 

Check out T2P.tv they're doing a pretty good job covering highlights and interviews. Maybe some colaboration with them might help. I believe they're internet based.


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## smackdaddy

I am only going to say this, like, 17 times....

I've finally figured it all out. I am in consultation with "my people" on the show's concept - but I think we'll have a winner very shortly. 

Stay tuned you filthy nay sayers!

(PS - It has something to do with making curlers face their fears and eat worms while working the foredeck, just before the crew throws them over the side at the mark, seeing who can get their curler closest to the floatie by beating them mercilessly with brooms. It's a true game changer for racing and will draw drunken Frenchman with a couple of extra flares to every port on earth. Don't doubt me. Of course, now I've said too much....)


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## davewild

Omatako said:


> I'll bet the 1983 AC worked well for Australia. They were the first to beat the American teams. And it was wildly exciting. Until they lost it again. 1987 never went that well. And they've never been back. I'll bet the TV coverage on sailing in Freemantle has tapered off some. I'll bet the crowds no longer flock to the beaches to watch the Sunday race, if there is one. Nor are they held in their chairs. But there probably are still a few people in Fremantle who watch the Sydney Hobart. Like they say, "One swallow does not a summer make"
> 
> And when I speak of a spectator sport I'm not talking about mums and dads turning out to watch their boy.


I have sailed in and around Fremantle for the last 30 odd years. Yes crowds have dropped off for almost all racing. One notable exception is "the Harbour Race". In this a bunch of the states top ocean racing and others sail off a handicap start in the confines of Fremantle harbour. This makes for great spectator viewing and pretty much non stop action. The boats tack,gybe,set and drop spinnakers right up close to the spectators( it's been a couple of years since i've been but it was getting strong crowds). Make sailing exciting and the people will come. As for the state of sailing in Perth/Fremantle, between the Swan River and the ocean off the coast of Perth, we would get several hundred boats out every summer weekend. Mid week races and twilight racing is also strongly supported. Most clubs are just starting their frostbite programs this time of year and these are well attended(if you can call sailing in 65-70 degrees farenheit with blue skys a frostbite!). In short sailing has dropped off a bit since the heady days of the Americas Cup, it was always going to, but it is a little bit more than a few people sitting in their chairs watching the Sydney to Hobart. If anybody is visiting Perth drop me a line and come out for a sail. I love to show case my yacht club and my city....by the way my mum and dad probably wont be watching.


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## smackdaddy

Hey davew - welcome to the fray dude. You're right on...make it exciting and they will come.

BTW - I like your definition of "frostbite". Just cool enough to keep the beers chilled a bit longer!


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## davewild

I find the difference between agood race and a bad one is having a second bag of ice!


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## OsmundL

Here's one more under the belt...
We _(not me, I had nothing to do with it)_ managed to lure our Minister for Justice to crew onboard a 20-hour ocean race (Denmark to Norway). He had never sailed before and quoted " a rowboat on an inland lake" as his previous water experience. They did well, he gets his picture everywhere, and it's one more notch for sailing. 
So, there's one more angle I forgot: get someone famous to participate. Anyone see a great British TV series by their black comedian (forget his name) who got onboard a racer crossing to Bahamas?


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## rob8888

I have a 38 ft sloop with new sails and a spinnaker and I want to go club racing. I've crewed on a couple of boats several times... mostly you get screamed at by a bunch of people you don't know, so I want to race my own boat. To race my own boat I need to keep the boat in a marina or yacht club close enough to where the races are held to be able to get to the race on a weeknight or Sunday morning... to do that I'd have to pay about 2-3 times what I now pay for moorage (right now I pay $CAD7/ft per month). Assuming I can get to the race I have to have 3 or 4 friends to crew with me... none of my friends are either interested or have the time. Whenever I try to talk to people who do race they usually suggest they're getting out of it because it's too expensive and they don't have the time. I'm going to race my boat anyway, but it's not like they make it easy.
FYI: I like watching curling on TV... and it's the only sport I do watch, since I don't get any sailboat racing. Curling's like any sport, including sailing... you have to know the rules and watch it long enough to understand it before it gets interesting.


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## fendertweed

I disagree that focusing on "extreme" sailing is the answer ... that, too, will lose interest because/among those who can't identify with it. ... like many real sailors.

eventually even I tire of watching it because I can't relate to it, it's exciting but eventually it's yadda yadda yadda ... 

kind of like why I never watch the NFL anymore, I can't relate to a bunch of pharmaceutically pumped up to gargantuan sized guys running around playing it.

or like why I lost interest in the NBA ... a bunch of oversized athletes, many of whom lack fundamental skills like defense & free throw shooting, playing a game I barely recognize as the game I played ... I prefer teams that play defense, do something other than Phi Slamma Jamma all the time, etc. So the NBA today bores me other than some of the playoffs.

impressive? I guess so on some level, but to me, ultimately, a total bore.

I'm not sure what the answer is but focusing on the "extreme" end is not it.

I don't race 'cause I'm not located conveniently to any racing, but even if I were the last thing I need after the stress of work, etc., is a bunch of overamped dickheads likely to smash into my boat, or flyspeck the rule book on every close call and turn every race into a legal proceeding. I have to be paid usually to engage in those.


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## PalmettoSailor

zz4gta said:


> Character development for starters.


I do have to think that if the producers of shows like Deadliest Catch and Ice Road truckers can make a compelling tv show out of crab fishing and truck driving in the snow, they could easily do so for high level sailboat racing.

If that were to happen, the way to capitalize on it at the grass roots club racing level would be more active out reach to both non sailors to participate as crew and non racing boat owners to give racing a try. The Chesapeake is one of the centers of sailing activity in this country and I know of only one club that actively works to bring non sailors into the sport as crew on keel boats. They recruit during winter, and give class room and on the water training in early spring so that have a pool of crew for the season. I wish that were common but from what I can see, the stereotype of sailboat racing as an exclusive, elitist activity seems to fit. Perhaps this is not the case with youth programs but it what I see in terms of attracing adults to the sport. I can only imagine how much more participation there would be if there was a show about sailing that was half as popular as Deadliest Catch and every club worked at bringing non sailors into the sport as crew (and potential future owners).

From the owner perspective, a series where typically equipped cruising boats could compete and have a chance of winning would be a welcome change. PHRF has the right idea, but basing the ratings on a fully race prepped boat leaves a lot of room for an expensive arms race and from my participation I feel like the ratings for some boats are pretty inaccurate. Chesapeake PHRF seems to recognizes this and has started a "Corinthian Class" with somewhat more restrictive rules, though I think they should have gone the step further and limited sails to Dacron only, as well as limiting the number of new sails you could use per year. There are darn few non racing boats sailing around with high tech sails. Odds are high if this class catches on the guy that competes in it with kevlar sails will be the guy that didn't do so good in the open class and now he'll have a venue where he can dominate. Anyway, the class was new for 2009 and I've yet to see such a class offered in a race series. Hopefully, it will catch on and bring more of the daysailor/crusier types to racing.

For a competely different model, I've participated in shooting sports where handicaps were determined both on the firearm and the skill level of the shooter so that like skill levels competed against like skill level using similar equipment. There was a qualification course used to "bucket" competetors into their classes. To adapt this concept for sailing would take some thought, but basically you'd set up a qualifiying course that each competetor would sail at the start of the season and then boats would be grouped into classes (Fastest, Medium Fast, S#^tbox) based on the time to complete the qualifiying course. This would mean well sailed slower boats would compete against poorly sailed faster boats, but if everyone sailed their best, I think it could make some interesting racing. Winning a determined number of consecutive races would bump you to the next class to catch sandbaggers and to account for impoving sailing skills. Haven't thought it through competely, but I feel like PHRF isn't currently setting a level field at a level that would allow a true dual purpose boat to compete other than as an also ran.


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## davewild

rob8888 said:


> I have a 38 ft sloop with new sails and a spinnaker and I want to go club racing. I've crewed on a couple of boats several times... mostly you get screamed at by a bunch of people you don't know, so I want to race my own boat. To race my own boat I need to keep the boat in a marina or yacht club close enough to where the races are held to be able to get to the race on a weeknight or Sunday morning... to do that I'd have to pay about 2-3 times what I now pay for moorage (right now I pay $CAD7/ft per month). Assuming I can get to the race I have to have 3 or 4 friends to crew with me... none of my friends are either interested or have the time. Whenever I try to talk to people who do race they usually suggest they're getting out of it because it's too expensive and they don't have the time. I'm going to race my boat anyway, but it's not like they make it easy.
> FYI: I like watching curling on TV... and it's the only sport I do watch, since I don't get any sailboat racing. Curling's like any sport, including sailing... you have to know the rules and watch it long enough to understand it before it gets interesting.


I have found similar problems, in fact I have never done less sailing since I purchased my first keelboat about two years ago. Before when I felt like going for a sail all I would do is phone a friend or two and get a ride. Now I have to spend half the week on the phone organising crew. Having 3 young kids also means I am less able to get out but in a few years I hope to have a "captive audience". On the up side I have started teaching novices at one of our local yacht clubs. It's great fun, I get to put something back into the sport and I also get to meet potential crew early on. It also has a less obvious benifit. As you teach others you look at sailing from a different point of view and learn a bit more yourself! win/win in my opinion


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## smackdaddy

Great points fellas. Midlife - you nailed it.

Stay tuned.


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## mikehoyt

So if it has to be a spectator sport then those who don't do rule the roost.

I hate powerboating unless I am driving. Is boring even if going fast. Sailing is fun and racing more so because everybody is doing something not passenging.

If it needs a TV audience thn people are in it for the wrong reasons IMO.

If you find racing your own boat expensive then crew for a friend. It is very difficult to get dedicated crew so someone is always looking. Unless you are useless on a boat it is easy and very cheap to race.

If you want to race your own boat then you must be ready to single hand, be very very good so that people will come to you or be prety wealthy ,,,

Whatever - sailing can be fun all alone so if no one else wants to race I will go sailing on my own and who really cares?

Miks


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## tommays

Us Sailing $65.00 
J24 Class $65.00 
Yralis 1 $45.00 
Phrf 1 $50.00 

Summer Series 1 $215.00 

J24 two day 1 $90.00


Straford Shoal 1 $75.00 


Sunset Series 1 $75.00 



$680.  


Thats my entry fee budget If i wanted to spend that much money to do a LIMITED amount of races on my boat 

I DONT want to spend that much SO i do bow for somebody who does


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## jephotog

Maybe if we could get Lance Armstrong out racing sailboats, I bet people would watch.


Even though I love all aspects of sailing and most of my time on the water has been while racing, Unless it is Americas cup or one of the bigger races, I have no interest in watching it on TV. I would not even go to the local harbor to watch a race unless I was onboard. I would love to go out and take photos from a dingy though.

I may be misquoting this but someone described the Americas cup races along the lines. "Who wants to watch a race that takes place off shore where no one can see it in multimillion dollar boats that are slower than a marathon runner with rules even the participants can't understand."


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## jephotog

midlifesailor said:


> I do have to think that if the producers of shows like Deadliest Catch and Ice Road truckers can make a compelling tv show out of crab fishing and truck driving in the snow, they could easily do so for high level sailboat racing.


I am not sure there are enough toothless, chain smoking ******** with major drama to attract the reality TV crowd onboard a race boat. Plus I would probably kick the camera man out of my way the first time I was scrambling to bring in an unruly Spinnaker onboard and he shoved a camera in my face.

I think anything catering to the public interest would probably offend true sailors, as the fakeness and over dramatized nature of reality TV would be transparent to sailors in the know. We'd probably watch it for a while so we could shocked at the bad drama then move on.


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## smackdaddy

A couple of points...

First, you kicking the cameraman out of the way is good TV! Maybe not the whole toothless thing...but the kicking is good.

Second, you're probably right about the dramatization most likely offending sailors. But who cares? Sailors aren't the primary target audience.

Let's put it this way...the VOR just finished. And over the span of that race - it had a cumulative audience of approximately 2 BILLION world-wide via online, television, and live events.

No one's interested? It'll work.

Now - who sails with Thom Beers? I need to show him something.


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## zz4gta

fendertweed said:


> I don't race 'cause I'm not located conveniently to any racing, but even if I were the last thing I need after the stress of work, etc., is a bunch of overamped dickheads likely to smash into my boat, or flyspeck the rule book on every close call and turn every race into a legal proceeding. I have to be paid usually to engage in those.


Really? Have you been racing? Where exactly do you live in NoVA? I'm 2.5 hours away from my own boat. I'm 1.5 - 2 hours away from the boat I race on during the week and weekends. This past weekend I got up at 0500 to drive 3.5 hours to Deltaville VA to race in the Leukemia cup. Slept on the boat (evelyn 32) on an air mattress tossed on top of the stringers in the hull. All the births were either removed or covered in sails.

This weekend I'll be at solomon's island racing my own boat. Which will require me to get the bottom clean, reserve a slip, hotel, and budget for food/gas/beer/and crew, move the boat to and from the island. After that I'm sailing the boat up to annapolis to race it back down during the Gov cup, again, plan for a place to stay, get crew, dive on boat, etc.

People will do what they want to do, sounds like you don't want to race.


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## zz4gta

smackdaddy said:


> Now - who sails with Beers?


Is that a retorical question?


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## smackdaddy

zz4gta said:


> Really? Have you been racing? Where exactly do you live in NoVA? I'm 2.5 hours away from my own boat. I'm 1.5 - 2 hours away from the boat I race on during the week and weekends. This past weekend I got up at 0500 to drive 3.5 hours to Deltaville VA to race in the Leukemia cup. Slept on the boat (evelyn 32) on an air mattress tossed on top of the stringers in the hull. All the births were either removed or covered in sails.
> 
> This weekend I'll be at solomon's island racing my own boat. Which will require me to get the bottom clean, reserve a slip, hotel, and budget for food/gas/beer/and crew, move the boat to and from the island. After that I'm sailing the boat up to annapolis to race it back down during the Gov cup, again, plan for a place to stay, get crew, dive on boat, etc.
> 
> People will do what they want to do, sounds like you don't want to race.


Hear-hear ZZ.

And just remember fender - civilization was built by overamped dickheads!


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## hellosailor

"civilization was built _by _"
Or perhaps, it was built _despite _them.


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## smackdaddy

Heh-heh. Perspecitve, hello - perspective.


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## random42

chiming in late I know...



smackdaddy said:


> Okay - now we're getting somewhere. It sounds like tradition, arcane and overly complex rules, and expense is killing the sport. So let's do this - let's take out the "middle". In other words, nuke all the club sailing - which is actually the most boring stuff to watch for a typical spectator anyway. Hell, let's even nuke the AC. And let's figure out what "extreme sailing" looks like.


To what end? Are you trying to raise the cost? "extreme sailing" is extremely expensive. Fun to watch, but not many can play.
It's like F1 - I love the engineering etc, but if my kids want to "car" race, a go-kart makes the most sense (nearly all current F1 drivers are ex kart racers btw). When I race (cars or boats), I prefer the stock classes where it is skill rather than wallet that decides the outcome.



> Let's compare it to mountain climbing.


Now you're talking boring ;-) I'd much rather watch 18ft skiffs racing in Sydney harbor.

If your goal is to get more people interested in sailing/racing, making it simpler and cheaper to play is the answer.


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## smackdaddy

Good points random. But I'd counter a couple of things. First, interest in the sport HAS to be driven by something that is cool enough and exciting enough to appeal to the average non-sailing Schlomo. Club racing ain't it. Extreme ocean racing is. To give you an idea of that - I've seen reports of a cumulative global television audience over the life of the VOR of 2 billion viewers. 2 BILLION. The interest is there. No doubt. Maybe mostly in Europe and Asia at this point - but there.

Second, as to your point about cost, you're right. A 4 year old, battered VO70 is around US$1.2 million. Of course very few can swing that. BUT, far more people can swing a couple of grand or less for _a sailboat_ (whatever it is) to go out in and start down that path. And even more, if properly motivated, can find other ways to sail (clubs, rentals, beer can races, outright theft, or just plain old mooching) without having to invest in the boat. Once they get a sheet or tiller in their hand - they're typically hooked.

So in terms of drawing larger participation from the bottom-up, I think you have to separate "sailing" from "racing". This is what I mean by taking out the "middle" - or not making the point of attraction for newbs club racing. It won't work.

When you're talking about growing the sport by getting people interested in it and simply getting them into a boat with a sail to try it, you have to make THAT part (getting them into any sailboat) as accessible and affordable as possible. Club racing doesn't do this. It is both cost and participation-prohibitive on many, many levels. That's why club racing is "dying" I think. There's nothing feeding it because so few people sail in the first place!

BUT, if you're hooking the public on the very idea of sailing through exciting, entertaining, extreme events like the VOR or the Vendee, then, as you say, making it easy for them to get into a boat and try it - you'll have rail meat throwing itself at you! It's the UFC phenomenon: Club racing is harness racing. The AC is boxing. The VOR is MMA.

2 billion people can't be wrong.

PS - I'm with you on the skiffs in Sydney harbor - even though I do love rock climbing too.


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## hellosailor

"First, interest in the sport HAS to be driven by something that is cool enough and exciting enough to appeal to the average non-sailing Schlomo"

Oh, heck, that's an easy one. Why do people watch NASCAR or the NFL? Come on now, be honest. They watch to see BLOOD. good old macho head-banging-bone-breaking-maybe-someone-will-die-here blood.

Turn competitive sailing into a blood sport on the high seas, and you'll get the sponsors, the franchise syndicates (remember, all pro sports are _business franchise syndicates_, they are not "sports" teams in any sense) and all the lucre that follows.

Run the America's Cup in shark infested waters, full of coral heads and no charts, allow chumming from the boats, encourage contact and impact, spikes on the bow, and make it "winner take all" and you'll blow the Nielsens off the scale.

Every fan at home who guesses the lucky number of the first crew to die (or be rescued from the sharks) to share a five-digit prize, new car, or trip to see the next race close up and live, and you'll make millions.

Oh, and any fan who can get across the picket line and get a mini-sub into the course area, gets a gift basket full of toys. Whether they can sink a contestant or not.


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## random42

smackdaddy said:


> So, you guys are right that there are many strikes against sailing being adopted on a wider scale. But to me, again, one of the main issues is that there is no "Big Show" for sailing.


Why does there need to be a "Big Show"? 
Who are you trying to appeal to? the folk that watch drag racing?
Not going to happen. Sailing is not a blood sport, and if it needs to be to appeal to your chosen demographic, then the problem is not with sailing ;-)

When I grew up (in Australia) sailing events were quite often on TV, America's Cup (even when we weren't winning ;-) 18ft skiffs etc. Even so, it was a sport that was really only appreciated by the initiated - that's true of many activities. So what?

For many, sailing, racing etc are still very appealing - but prohibitively expensive. Tackle that...


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## bloodhunter

*Why not a real battle?*



hellosailor said:


> "First, interest in the sport HAS to be driven by something that is cool enough and exciting enough to appeal to the average non-sailing Schlomo"
> 
> Oh, heck, that's an easy one. Why do people watch NASCAR or the NFL? Come on now, be honest. They watch to see BLOOD. good old macho head-banging-bone-breaking-maybe-someone-will-die-here blood.
> 
> Turn competitive sailing into a blood sport on the high seas, and you'll get the sponsors, the franchise syndicates (remember, all pro sports are _business franchise syndicates_, they are not "sports" teams in any sense) and all the lucre that follows.
> 
> Run the America's Cup in shark infested waters, full of coral heads and no charts, allow chumming from the boats, encourage contact and impact, spikes on the bow, and make it "winner take all" and you'll blow the Nielsens off the scale.
> 
> Every fan at home who guesses the lucky number of the first crew to die (or be rescued from the sharks) to share a five-digit prize, new car, or trip to see the next race close up and live, and you'll make millions.
> 
> Oh, and any fan who can get across the picket line and get a mini-sub into the course area, gets a gift basket full of toys. Whether they can sink a contestant or not.


 Not bloody enough!
Try this. 
As everyone knows, the Beaufort scale wind speed was not measured in knots or mph, it was measured by the maximum amount of sail the could be carried by an 18th century British frigate while in chase. Admiral Beaufort chose the frigate as his windspeed indicator because just about all captains in the British navy had commanded a frigate at one time or another.
The kicker was the phrase 'in chase' - in pursuit of the enemy. A captain who didn't do his utmost while 'in chase' was subject to severe penalties . Admiral Byng was shot on his own quarterdeck after a courtmartial found him guilty of just that. The admiral had engaged a more powerful French fleet off Minorca during the seven-years war and not being a Nelson, had not destroyed it.

My proposal, build a fleet of equivalent frigates (36 guns, 9-,12- and 18-pounders plus carronades), man them, arm them and have them fight it out. That would be no more expensive than the maxi-boats or AC racers, probably less.
Our august sailing body could judge whether a captain did his utmost. It seems that sailing disputes are more and more headed to the courts so why not a courtmartial and have done with it. 
Make sure the ships are built of wood, splinters make really bloody wounds, and possibly hang the losing captain, if still alive, on his own quarterdeck.
I'm sure this would generate lots of interest - I mean look how many people turned out for Master and Commander. There would be all sorts of betting, movie rights, product spin-offs, the possibilities are endless. 
Further, it could event evolve into fleet actions.

On another note. I'm not sure why you would believe the 2 billion viewers figure. If you really believe that half the population of the world watched the VOR, I got a really nice bridge I can sell you -- cheap. 
I suspect the figure is wildly over-hyped probably by a factor of 1000 or so especially if you count people who actually watched it and not just had on a news program in which a segment of the VOR appeared.


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## smackdaddy

I'm all over the "Freakin' Frigates From Hell" concept. Nice touch blood.

As for the VOR numbers - I don't know how they sliced it - but those figures are from a Connexus Precision market research report. So whaddayagonnado?


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## Boasun

Each vessel racing should carry a broadside of six potato cannons.
Thus giving the rail meats something to do while sitting there as movable ballast.
Think of it... as two boats draw along side there will be broadside fired between the vessels. Hot potatos flying across the waters to knock the rail meats from their perch along the rail of the opposing vessel...
Or large paint balls that would show where the other vessel has been hit. 

What do you guys think about this IDEA???


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## hellosailor

Boasun, stow the wimp talk. Whens the last time you saw "tee ball" competition on the networks?

You want eyes on the Nielsen, you stow the (ladies, leave the room now) ***** talk and issue arquebusses and blunderbusses and chain shot and two pound guns bow and stern. Give 'em something that guarantees permanent death and disfigurement (survivors on the winning team get to star on a spinoff second show "Battle Scar Reconstruction Miami") and have at it.

Mortal combat SELLS. Fake combat games, not so well.


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## smackdaddy

Huzzah!


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## bubb2

It will never sell with out sea monsters

YouTube - Pirates of the Caribbean The Kraken Battle


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## Benny26

my own 2 cents here...
theres a difference between network mtv style reality tv, and dramatized real tv... mtv style would definatly offend anyone seious in the sport.
but at the same time, mike rowe can narrate over just about anything on the discovery channel, and make it cool and interesting when you would otherwise get board. shows done that way, teach about what you are watching and pull you in.
yes, from far away, sailboat racing can be slow to watch, so its the drama on deck that will make people watch. 
on a different line, the high ups in the sailing world, can be a bit hoity toity and may be partly responsibe for the sport not being properly promoted to the masses...
sorry about my spelling.
thanks for reading


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## smackdaddy

Hey Benny - welcome to SN dude. You freakin' nailed it.

Now watch out for HelloSailor's blunderbus.


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## chall03

Benny26 said:


> on a different line, the high ups in the sailing world, can be a bit hoity toity and may be partly responsibe for the sport not being properly promoted to the masses...
> sorry about my spelling.
> thanks for reading


Are you telling me not everyone interested in sailing has their very own fully crewed Swan waiting for them in the Med?
In addition to a stake in a Farr 40 syndicate back home of course??

Well I never.....wait till I tell cook about this.......he will laugh so loudly like he did on the day when Gertrude came home from polo with that hole in her Jodhpurs......


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## lporcano

seeyahttp://35knots.com


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## smackdaddy

Hey porc - good to see you posting!

I think you're right on the money with this statement...



lporcano said:


> ...so there is not a decline there just an undeveloped possibility.


BUT - I do think the two are inextricably linked. In other words, BECAUSE sailing has never really been a spectator sport, it's been at a serious disadvantage to grabbing the wider public's imagination. And until that imagination is thoroughly grabbed - you won't see significant growth, much less Little League sailing.

Again, thinking about golf, even with Tiger Woods, if the new generation of golfers he created had been unable to watch him do what he does there would have been far less a groundswell. Yes, his celebrity drives a lot, but that celebrity itself is driven by the spectators - not the ones on the course - the millions on TV around the world - WATCHING that prowess and WANTING to give it a go.

So - agreed, 2 different things. But I don't think you'll ever have the latter without the former to any significant degree.


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## hellosailor

"Sailing was never really a spectator sport,"
How curious, that's what I say about national franchise football and soccer. It's like cheering for Coke versus Pepsi, and somehow, they convince the fans to PAY for the ability to do so.


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## lporcano

seeyahttp://35knots.com


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## smackdaddy

lporcano said:


> The key is making it fun, affordable, and accessible.


Yeah - maybe it's overstating a bit. And I totally agree with your statement above. That is the key to participation.

BUT - do both...and fuggedaboudit!!!


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## TSOJOURNER

Justa quicknote. I think the America's cup shananegans have had a pretty bad impact on our sport. PeopleKNOW about the America's cup,so they must be seriously putoff when all they hear about are court cases and lawyers. It's a crying shame. 

Sailing can be a good spectator sport. We need: High camera angles, head cameras, mast top cameras, GPS tracking systems, knowledgable commentators and interesting boats. Look at the "awesome aussie skiffs" series several years ago. That was hugely popular.


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## smackdaddy

Yeah Ryan, the AC stuff has been ridiculous...to the point where people don't really give a damn anymore. I think the VOR is the kind of racing that will draw people - and the Vendee. 

The AC has become just a blue blazer legal-fest with goofballs like Ellison and Bertarelli trying to sound reasonable.

I'd rather see a fistfight.


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## painkiller

I watched a sailing special on ESPN. I enjoyed it because I could just watch videos of boats sailing all day, but it was horribly done. They covered the entire regatta, 9 races, in an hour and you couldn't tell what the hell was going on. They'd show footage of a boat and you had no idea where they were in the fleet or how close they were to a mark or a finish. It was all just random. I can't imagine a non-sailor becoming interested in the sport from that kind of thing.

Now, the VOR specials were excellent. I think they showed those on public television. Very well produced, excellent content, and they clearly communicated what was occurring in the race. Good enough to Tivo.

The last America's Cup coverage on Versus was a step in the right direction, but still just OK.

All of this is to say that there will never be widespread interest in the sport without better production of the events. You can get people involved in the Volvo and Vendee because the action is easier to follow and you can tell the human side of the story and show the sailors' families missing them and the obstacles they've overcome, blah blah blah. But watching a round-the-buoys race is pretty far from being interesting on TV, in my opinion.


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## Faster

Back when the AC bozos were still sailing instead of sueing, I thought the ESPN coverage of the Louis Vuitton and Cup series was pretty good. Watching the starts always got my heart rate up. - once the race devolved into a distant chase there wasn't a lot of interest though I could still appreciate the frequently brilliant mark roundings, spinnaker sets and douses.

But to a non-sailor I don't think there's ever going to be a mass appeal - if you don't understand the situation there's not much to look at. The skiff series referred to above was great too, and well done but only played on the fringe "Extreme" network for us..

We sailors simply aren't a big enough demographic to win this one, and current AC nonsense surely doesn't help.


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## painkiller

I think the VOR and Vendee races have potential for mass appeal. The concept is pretty simple: go from Point A to Point B. Throw in some danger and a few touching vignettes about a sailor and his family waiting on the docks, and you have something interesting.


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## TSOJOURNER

From a European point of view I don't have the feeling that racing is in decline. Classes come and go... but in the Netherlands and UK racing as a whole seems to be growing. In France sailors are almost national heroes!


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## TSOJOURNER

Checkout the the Dutch reality TV show 'Tough Men, Big Waves' (Stoere Mannen, Hoge Golven). This show was filmed by a cameraman onboard Team Delta Lloyd sailing in the Volvo Ocean Race. Half of it is in Dutch but you'll understand what happens. This aired on national commercial tv in thirteen episodes, very nice too watch.


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## TSOJOURNER

Showreel: Matt Gregory in 'Stoere Mannen, Hoge Golven'

All episodes of 'Stoere Mannen, Hoge Golven' 

Sorry about the mutiple posts, you need two before links are allowed...


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## smackdaddy

WOW! That is great work! Is that your stuff Air?


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## TSOJOURNER

The footage was shot by Delta Lloyd's media crew member Sander Pluijm. According to his website this was the first time a cameraman was allowed onboard. He was not allowed to help sailing, just film.


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## smackdaddy

Well - if there was more of this out there in TV land, there would be much more interest in sailing. No doubt.


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## bloodhunter

*Where's the Connection??*

Why is it assumed that have more and better sailing events on television will automatically translate into more people buying sailboats and going racing? 
This is a thread that regularly pops up her and on SA (and probably on other sailing forums too); it's a great topic to discuss, but is it based on fact? I have no idea.
But let's go back to the golden age when the sport wasn't in decline (can some one tell me when that was?). In any case there was no TV coverage and racing was no more a spectator sport then than it is now. So what happened?
IMHO one part is in the advance of technology and the costs associated with 'keeping up' and there's time and the lack of it. There are lots of other possible reasons but I'll stick to these. 
When I started serious racing (Annapolis Wednesday night series) back in 1980 I had just boat a C&C 40 with that had been set up for racing. It was one of a large class of what were called 'racer-cruisers'. At that time electronics were minimal - by today's standards, the high-tech sail material and lines were not available and most of the specialized racing hardware had yet to be invented. What all that meant was that you could take almost a stock boat (usually it was called the tall rig or racing version) and take it out and race it and if you were good, place high or win without having to spend a fortune on sails and equipment. 
Now I have to admit I won't race if I can't be competitive. What I mean is if I sail a good race I can place high or win. I wouldn't want to race a boat that had no chance of winning no matter how well it was sailed. So for racing, For racing we'd strip the boat of cruising equipment , pump out a lot of the water from the tanks and off we'd go. Every so often, a couple of us would put on our tanks and clean the bottom. And so after a couple of years of practice and racing with my crew, Satisfaction began placing at the top of the fleet. As technology developed, we added new hardware and elec tronics but no bank-breakers. Then things changed with the advent of Kevlar sails. To be competitive they were a must and they were expensive and the early ones weren't particularly durable so they had to be replaced every couple of years. This involved thousands of dollars and when the kids started college, I just couldn't afford it. What I did was drop down to a less 'serious' racing club and continued but as has been pointed out elsewhere, there's always someone who will turn friendly 'beer can' racing into blood sport. But the problem remains -- to become and remain competitive is now a very expensive proposition and I haven't even mentioned the expense of docking or mooring the boat and ordinary maintenance which can run thousands of dollars a year.. I believe that the high and continuing expenses have deterred many people from the sport.
Then there's the time factor and I don't mean just time spent racing and setting the boat up for racing. One reason that Satisfaction did so well is that we practiced evenings after work. It took a year before were started really functioning as a team. To do this we spent 6-10 hours a week beyond racing in practice - you should have seen our first attempt to deploy the LifeSling, it would have taken a prize on funniest home videos. But that was time away from everything else, family, kids and in today's ultra-busy world a lot of people can't make that commitment, especially if they don't live close to their boats.
Then there's another aspect of the problem. To race you need to have some sort of race committee. The race committee has to spend time setting up the race, meeting with skippers, overseeing the race (committee boat) and arbitrating any protests. And while there are probably more thankless jobs, I can't think of them off-hand. I wonder how many races get called off and possibly programs abandoned because no one was willing to serve on a race committee.
Would more/better television coverage help any of this? I don't see how. What we need to do is first get kids into sailing, there are lots of programs out there but IMHO the best way is to take them out on our boats and teach them. Some will love it and some will not. For those who do there needs to be some outlet where they can sail and necessarily racing sailing dinks (which is what I did). Problem with learning by racing at that age is that winning becomes more important than sailing and the ones who consistently lose will just drop out probably forever. 
IMHO that if we get kids to love sailing, some of them will become racers. After that we need to do something so people can afford to race. Maybe classes that limit the racing improvement on a boat - but I don't know. And there's still the time problem - to many other things to do and the need for racing committees. But better media coverage ? With what's going on may we should consider Court TV . Anyway all we'll get out of TV is nautically-oriented coach potatoes. 
We brought our kids up on our boat and now they have sailboats and sometimes we all cruise together in our own little flotilla. But the excitement of racing never appealed to them.
As for me and my wife, well we have a plan -- two-to three more years and we're out of here. We bought a boat for coastal cruising and island hopping. She's also capable of blue-water cruising but my wife isn't up to crossing oceans, at least not yet. In any case we have the entire western hemisphere and the Caribbean to explore. 
So since we bought Enchantress, I've pretty much given up racing. Instead my wife and I spend our time making Enchantress over into our perfect cruising boat and learning everything we can about how to handle her. But y'know there are still times when I miss the excitement of the race.


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## hellosailor

"Maybe classes that limit the racing improvement on a boat "
They ALL pretty much do, in one way or another. USYRU had that debate for many years and dumbed down their name to USSA because they felt "yachting" was too elitist and discouraged people from the sport. Kinda like requiring torn jeans on casual Friday, if you ask me.

You know the reason that hulls are smooth, not textured? Because texturing the surface (like sharksin, or golf ball dimples, or the new Speedo olympic racing bathing suits) gives a significant speed increase--but it can cost gobs of money to figure out the best way to do it. So it was expressly banned.

One design racing? Again, caps what you can do to what the factory did, so the only real way you can spend money is buying new sails. For a while the J/35 class became known as the "sail of the month" club when some folks figured out the new sails worked best when new...

Bottom line is just that no matter where or how you place the limits, sailing is a sport and a hobby and that by definition doesn't happen unless you are RICH enough to have disposable income. Even if that just means $100 for a used Sunfish, that's disposable income and that makes you RICH in the eyes of the guy who doesn't have that much to begin with.


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## 4arch

Most of us start out racing as crew and at that point our cash outlay is minimal to zero so I don't buy the argument that the "arms race" mentality is keeping people from getting interested in the sport (though I do agree it's a strong factor in keeping people from fielding new racing boats). At this point a lot of boats are short crew so the problem is not that we're attracting too few skippers but that we're attracting too few crew and that is causing a lot of existing skippers to abandon or scale back their racing campaigns.


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## zz4gta

Sailing can't be compared to any other sport just b/c of the cost alone. Only other thing that I've found that costs about the same is racing cars. It's way too expensive for kids to aford and parents can't justify it when they compare it to other sports. Soccer = shoes, shin guards, uniform. Sailing = BOAT, foulies, PFD. And they get farther separated from there. 

To keep costs down try using dacron sails and only let them buy new sails every 2-3 years. No spinnakers (although I'm against this, downwind jib and main is painfully slow and boring) this eliminates replacing a broken pole, one or more crew members, and at least one sail. 

No one says the RC can't be picked for every single race before the season starts. Rotate racers out as RC. The volunteer system sucks donkey d!ck and you end up w/ the same 4 boats doing it every year. Nothing says you even need a boat, put the RC in someone's dingy w/ a cooler and a stop watch. Make the marks out of old milk jugs w/ a line tied to a big fishing weight. 

Have a 3 day event where no boat is allowed a diver and cannot come out of the water unless something is broken. 

Smaller boats w/ less crew make it easier to get boats on the water. Also makes it easier to do away regattas. Big boats require big, strong crew, who eat a lot and drink a lot at the bar, they also want a hotel room instead of crashing on the boat. 

Just a couple of random thoughts. BTW that video is amazing, it's too bad I can't understand a word of it.


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## 4arch

Parents don't have to buy their kids a boat to get them into sailing and if they did want to buy a boat it's not too hard to find dinks under $500. If you live in an area where sailing's at all popular there are always sailing camps and classes for kids that don't cost any more than any other camps and classes kids take. I learned to sail and race on old beat up lasers and 420's then moved on to old beat up sonars and J22's before graduating to big boat sailing/racing.


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## zz4gta

Ok, so how does a 10 year old get started in racing lasers. Break it down for me. $500 is a ton of money if you don't have it.


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## PCP

AirOneNL said:


> From a European point of view I don't have the feeling that racing is in decline. ..... In France sailors are almost national heroes!


And French Ocean races are not French races anymore. They have sailors from all Europe and even some Americans. They put the emphasis on human exploit and seamanship and are mostly duo or solo races.

Here you have a link for the French Mag "Course au large" in the English version "Ocean Racing". This one is free. You have just to register.It has great photos.

OCEAN RACING : 100% SAILING, 100% RACING !

Regards

Paulo


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## 4arch

zz4gta said:


> Ok, so how does a 10 year old get started in racing lasers. Break it down for me. $500 is a ton of money if you don't have it.


I don't disagree with you at all there. When you don't have disposable income participating in sports that have high equipment costs and low public/corporate subsidy just isn't going to be a reality for you. But it's not just the poor who are staying away from racing, it's almost everybody and it can't be money that's keeping them all away. It's not at all uncommon to find middle class parents spending way more than $500/year on sports leagues, clinics, camps, classes, etc for their kids. And there are plenty of other expensive sports/hobbies that have more popularity and greater mind share among the middle class than sailboat racing (skiing & golf, just to name two). I think avoidance of youth sailing has as much or more to do with perception of elitism, perception of expense, parental safety concerns, parental fear of expending their kid's time on a hobby that has little to no value for getting college scholarships, and general fear of not following the crowd as it has to do with cost.


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## zz4gta

4arch, any suggestions to getting more kids involved?


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