# Marine Head Suggestions for long term cruising



## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

Thinking about replacing the existing marine head (Jabsco) with a porta potty, something like a Thetford 550P (MSD) or a composting toilet.

I’ll be doing some long term cruising around the Bahamas, but intend to be in a slip at least once every two weeks. I know some of the bigger marinas have pump out stations, but I’m not too sure about the smaller ones.

The question is would it be possible to rig up a lockout “Y” valve and discharge the contents in legal areas or is that not possible with the gravity feed nature of the system? I’d rather not have to disconnect the pump out hose / vent and base attachment every time when the system needs to be cleansed.

Open to ideas and suggestions on other options. My main criteria are simplicity and that it has to be a manual system with the least amount of maintenance involved. I like what I’ve read about the vacuum systems, but I haven’t found one that can be manually pumped….maybe there’s one out there?


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Go compost. It's the best :grin.


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

MikeOReilly said:


> Go compost. It's the best :grin.


Just started looking at those a little....is there a particular one that you've used long term? Any quirks to be aware of?


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

I looked at the Vacuflush toilet systems but that vacumn pump scares me some... either way I bought the medium sized TMC freshwater electric toilet and have plumbed it to use freshwater only as the primary system with raw saltwater as a backup... it is plumbed to use a holding tank but have it so it uses the 'Y' valve as well and dump out at the legal limit... I probably will never use this and will only use the pumpout facilities.... but ya never know!

I've read in other forums these TMC marine heads are very reliable and have been in use many many carefree years... 

I used PVC instead of sanitation hose for routing the pipe to the tank and used a small section of sanitation hose (less than 12 inches) for 'flex' in the system. PVC is held in place with cushioned saddle clamps not much different than is used in the aerospace system to hold ducts/pipes to the aircraft frames. I assume I will never have the 'head smell' in my boat but there always will be a 'holding tank' under one of the bunks...


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## cthoops (Apr 30, 2012)

I agree with Mike. Go with the composting head. It's as simple as it gets. We had a portapotty and I absolutely hated it. Now we have a Nature's Head, and while there was a slight learning curve, it's fantastic. For our next boat the first project is going to be tearing out the existing head and replacing it with our Nature's Head. 

As far as "quirks", I would just note that men need to sit to pee. As a woman I obviously already sit, but I needed to sit quite a bit forward for the proper "aim" for liquids. The key is to keep the material really dry. That was the part that we needed to figure out, but after reading Mike's previous posts about how dry he and his SO keep their coir, we backed way off on how much water we used to moisten the material. We also switched from peat moss to coir bricks, and that worked out much better for us. The added bonus is that the coir takes up a lot less space.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

scubadoo said:


> Just started looking at those a little....is there a particular one that you've used long term? Any quirks to be aware of?


There are a number of fairly recent threads on composters here at SN. You should be able to find them pretty easily, and they give a good outline of the benefits, and challenges, of these heads. They are "quirky" in the sense that there is a learning curve to using them properly. You also have to be slightly more intimate with your own outflows, but that is really quite minor once you get on to it.

I installed a Nature's Head a four years ago, and absolutely love it. Air Head is the other major name (and basically the same as a NH). C-Head is the third commercial version I'm aware of. It also works great according to many who use them. They are smaller than NH and AH so they need to be emptied more often, but CH uses standard sized containers.

My principle reasons for going compost were:


To extend our cruising range without having to worry about finding a pump out station.
To recover a significant amount of storage space by getting rid of the holding tank and pipes.
To reduce the risks of sewage problems (blockages, back flows, cracked hoses, problems with holding tank, etc.)
And finally, to make our boat a little safer and simpler by reducing the number of holes in the hull.

I'm happy to say that all these needs have been met with my NH.


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## alctel (Jan 25, 2014)

MikeOReilly said:


> Go compost. It's the best :grin.


Seriously. First thing I did when I got my boat was rip out the old holding tank and system and install a Nature's Head.

Best part, apart from the lack of smell, is that it COMPLETELY removes a major system from the boat. No more worrying about it. Hearing my dockmates complain about how their head isn't draining again makes me sure of my choice!



cthoops said:


> We also switched from peat moss to coir bricks, and that worked out much better for us. The added bonus is that the coir takes up a lot less space.


It's a lot more sustainable as well! Peat Moss is pretty awful enviromentally, it takes a long, _long _time to regenerate


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

On a 30' boat, I don't believe you are going to be able to use a composting toilet. Anyway, I am hearing from more and more owners of composting heads of the problems, especially when more than two are using it and problems with liquid/solids separation when using them underway.
In any area without pump out facilities, I doubt that you are required to use your holding tank. That would be pretty unreasonable. A holding tank system is usually built with a Y for direct discharge where acceptable, but neither the overboard discharge nor the holding tank will work on a gravity system. Therefore, your best option is a standard marine toilet like the Raritan PHII. I suggest you do not purchase any head with a vertical pump (see the cheap IT/Jabsco heads) as they are most inefficient (see the lever action pump on the PHII for the better system). A proper head goes a long way to turn camping aboard into living aboard.


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## cthoops (Apr 30, 2012)

capta said:


> On a 30' boat, I don't believe you are going to be able to use a composting toilet. Anyway, I am hearing from more and more owners of composting heads of the problems, especially when more than two are using it and problems with liquid/solids separation when using them underway.


We have a Bristol 24 and put the Nature's Head in the v-berth. It worked for us because we sleep athwarthship in the "salon" (a term I use loosely on our small boat) since Mr. cthoops is 6'4". I realize that's not a solution that would appeal to everyone, however.

I've also read about problems that some people have had, but the more experience we've had with it the more I'm convinced that the few issues that arise stem from user error. Not surprising given the aforementioned learning curve.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

I built in a composting head and would never go back to a chemical-laden holding tank system or some electrical device/hose concoction. The main tenet of composting is making sure #1 never mixes with #2. If people who come aboard cannot wrap their minds around the fact that pee pee must never go in with poo poo then you have a stinky problem It's sometimes difficult to get people to understand this simple rule. But, that's the only drawback as far as I can see. There is no chemical smell, no foul odor, and no constant pita trying to find a pumpout spot. The composted material can just be discarded in a dumpster. Some people use it as fertilizer in their gardens for non-edible plants. It was amazing to me that the only odor is like the smell of peat moss.


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## jslade8581 (Aug 3, 2009)

Another vote for the composting head. We went with Airhead. One of the best decisions we've ever made with the boat. We love the residential size seat.

One thing that we discovered is to have some of the peat (or whatever you use) in a little tupperware stored in the head. Add a scoop after a deposit to help dry it and maintain the correct ratio of 'additions' and peat.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

scubadoo said:


> Thinking about replacing the existing marine head (Jabsco) with a porta potty, something like a Thetford 550P (MSD) or a composting toilet.
> 
> I'll be doing some long term cruising around the Bahamas, but intend to be in a slip at least once every two weeks. I know some of the bigger marinas have pump out stations, but I'm not too sure about the smaller ones.
> 
> ...


You never explained what is wrong with what you have. Thus, you will bring the composting guys out of the woodwork but not necessarily find a solution.

So what is wrong? I find conventional systems to be VERY low maintenance, if the design and the maintenance are right. Normally the problems is that something is wrong, and it seems easier to start over than understand it.

Hint. You won't see a lot of composting heads on new boats. Won't sell.


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## jhwelch (May 9, 2015)

Here is one of the threads that is having an active discussion on drying heads:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/pacific-seacraft/204961-airhead-psc-37-a.html


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

smurphny said:


> I built in a composting head and would never go back to a chemical-laden holding tank system or some electrical device/hose concoction. The main tenet of composting is making sure #1 never mixes with #2. If people who come aboard cannot wrap their minds around the fact that pee pee must never go in with poo poo then you have a stinky problem It's sometimes difficult to get people to understand this simple rule. But, that's the only drawback as far as I can see. There is no chemical smell, no foul odor, and no constant pita trying to find a pumpout spot. The composted material can just be discarded in a dumpster. Some people use it as fertilizer in their gardens for non-edible plants. It was amazing to me that the only odor is like the smell of peat moss.


My guests when onboard will not use a porta pottie much less a composting head... some people will not sail with the knowledge they will not be using a head similar to what is at home... it's what is conceived as not being very sanitary... as you mention your 'guest' can't wrap their heads (pun intended) around the concept of the #1 and #2 not mixing... you think they're going to 'listen' to this at the heat of the moment?

Myself and my significant other as well as friends think the freshwater head is the way to go... less marine foul smell, less foul smell in hoses (all PVC), less foul smell in the tank... flushing the holding tank at sea (legal limit) is as easy as opening the 'Y' valve, opening the raw water valve, turning on the pump, and all effluent is flushed out of the holding tank... quite simple... no mess and no fuss.

Of course you'd be fiddling with a tank full of 'pee' and a bucket of 'peat moss smelling compost' but your hands will holding 'this stuff' not to mention your 'nose' in close proximity...

And since when is 'compost' fresh smelling? I have a composter at home for our garden and it is not fresh smelling even after 2-3 weeks...


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

guitarguy56 said:


> My guests when onboard will not use a porta pottie much less a composting head... some people will not sail with the knowledge they will not be using a head similar to what is at home... it's what is conceived as not being very sanitary... as you mention your 'guest' can't wrap their heads (pun intended) around the concept of the #1 and #2 not mixing... you think they're going to 'listen' to this at the heat of the moment?
> 
> Myself and my significant other as well as friends think the freshwater head is the way to go... less marine foul smell, less foul smell in hoses (all PVC), less foul smell in the tank... flushing the holding tank at sea (legal limit) is as easy as opening the 'Y' valve, opening the raw water valve, turning on the pump, and all effluent is flushed out of the holding tank... quite simple... no mess and no fuss.
> 
> ...


All I can tell you is that I've had about every kind of head imaginable over the years, from straight pumpout (actually the best but frowned upon these daysto electronic treatment, porta potties, to holding tanks, etc. and this is the most agreeable type by far. The best aspect is the lack of obnoxious odor control/formaldehyde type chemicals. It uses 0 electric, a big consideration for cruisers, and looks EXACTLY like a home toilet, since mine is built-in with a standard toilet seat. I never would have believed the lack of anything yucky about it and the lack of odor either. My home compost pile smells as well but it has lots of ingredients that the boat head does not. Onion peels do NOT go in the boat head. It is pretty amazing how fast the compost process occurs. I use Coconut Coir as the medium which I would recommend.

It IS a challenge to sell this to the other gender but once explained and understood, is acceptable and not immediately vetoed. Oh well.


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

I have a porta pottie as an emergency contigency should the electric system fail (I recently installed it). I show all my guest the alternative pottie and I see their faces as they look at the 'thing' with eyes of disgust... I keep it stored in the cockpit locker and have never used it... for $69.00 it is an ideal alternative and 'lifesaver' in an emergency but hope never to use it.

If the composting head users swear by their units that is good for them... but some of us like the use of a normal handling toilet/head that doesn't have our hands scratching our heads on what to do with it once it's filled to the brim with '&*#%'...


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Hint: Just do a search here, or on CF, and read what actual owners say about their experience with composting heads.

I think the apt comparison between composting heads vs traditional holding tank marine heads is like comparing old-style anchors such as CQR or Bruce to the new generation anchors like Rocna or Manson. There's nothing wrong with the old-style anchors, it's just than the new ones are better (in most cases).

If you use any tool incorrectly you'll likely get poor results. Those who are reporting "more and more" problem are likely not following the instructions, or trying to push the volumes. Commercial composting heads (NH, AH, CH) are designed to manage two adults for full time use. They can accommodate higher usage for short periods of time, and can go for entire seasons with sporadic usage, but if your full-time crew is three or more, you either can't use one, or need multiple composting heads.

I really don't understand this argument that composting heads are somehow more confusing to new users compared to a standard marine head; at least the manual ones, maybe electrics are easier ... I've never had one. A standard manual head is equally odd to new users. You gotta know when to let water in, how much to let in, then you gotta then flip the switch to pump it out, then switch back to do more flushes, etc...

With my NH all you have to do is sit down, and open the trap door if you're taking a dump. Everything flows exactly where it should without any real effort (at least for me and my wife with our NH). When you're done, close the trap door and turn the handle a few times. How is this more difficult than a standard marine head .


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## BMLipiec (Feb 3, 2009)

I am only aware of one person who had a composting toilet and didn't like it. They also admitted that they didn't install a properly sized vent hose. Most of the critics have never owned one. They are not the perfect solution, and they are not completely trouble free. 

But, let's not gloss over the issues with a traditional marine head. For the full time cruiser you WILL have issues with blockages, joker valve replacements, periodic hose replacement (even with expensive hose), beating hoses to break up urine deposits, and macerator failures. Those are messy disgusting jobs, way worse than emptying a pee bottle or compost bin. The unlucky ones (I fit in this category) will have leaks. Ours was catastrophic and ruined our mattress. Luckily we were coming back home from a long weekend trip. Had we been living aboard/cruising at the time it would have been a disaster. I know of a couple that had a tank rupture and leak gallons into the bilge while cruising. They had to sleep on deck for a week (and use a bucket), going below only sparingly until they could get someplace to properly clean it and repair it. As for guests, landlubbers don't like marine heads anyway. Our friend's sister finds a way to completely clog their head every time she uses it. Using a composting toilet is not freakin rocket science, just different. I've never had guests refuse to use it when nature calls, and no one has ever had problems using it.

A head problem for the weekend sailor is a major inconvenience. It is a major disaster for a cruiser far away from land and/or West Marine. I get that a lot of people don't like the whole idea of a composter and will automatically dismiss it. I'm not trying to convert or convince anyone, but many people, as I have, come to these forums to get information. Scubadoo asked specifically about composters. With that in mind we put in an Airhead two years ago and have been using it full time for 6 months while cruising. We are very happy with it, works as advertised, does not stink, and has been mechanically trouble free. I carry an extra $20 vent fan as the only spare on board and some extra COIR bricks. If you are cruising with a traditional head make sure you carry a rebuild kit, spare joker valves, spare macerator, and some extra $10/ft hose.


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## oldfurr (Dec 25, 2012)

scubadoo said:


> I like what I've read about the vacuum systems, but I haven't found one that can be manually pumped&#8230;.maybe there's one out there?


 I think you should look at the LaVac popular, no electric pumps needed and easy rigging for overboard discharge from your holding tank or directly from the head ( see installation diagrams #3 & #4 in the FAQ link ) they are down to about 3 pints per flush nowadays according to the manufacturer and are super reliable in service and easier to service when needed compared to conventional heads. You even get an easy extra bilge pump system out of the deal.

Lavac Marine Toilets - Popular
Lavac Marine Toilets - Frequently Asked Questions


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

MikeOReilly said:


> A standard manual head is equally odd to new users. You gotta know when to let water in, how much to let in, then you gotta then flip the switch to pump it out, then switch back to do more flushes, etc...


No matter how hard I try I can't make a manual Jabsco toilet sound complicated. Do your business, flick the lever to the left, pump 10 times (or whatever your plumbing requires), flick the lever to the right and pump until dry. It's less complicated than making a cup of coffee.

In contrast here is the instruction for a composting toilet (from Airhead's website):

"Much like a household toilet the Airhead has a bowl and an actuator which provides a waterless 'flush'. An optional paper bowl liner acts as a carrier for solid matter on its way to the solids tank and keeps the bowl clean.
Liquids are collected in the smaller forward tank which can be emptied into any standard commode. The liquid tank will hold approximately 10 litres (2-3 days use for 2 people)."

Firstly, what is a "standard commode"? and secondly I'm reading that every couple of days I have to remove a tank full of pee from the toilet and throw it somewhere else? And before I have a [email protected], I have to line the bowl with an optional (really? Optional?) paper liner? What happens when you run out of paper liners? Do you use the tea towel to clean off the skidmarks?

Any there are people that believe this is better/simpler than a Jabsco???? You're kidding, right?

Honestly, my wife read that website and said that if I fit a composting toilet, I'll be cruising alone.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

You guys are so funny.

a. Obnoxious chemicals. You apparently do not read. All of the modern treatment chemicals, if needed at all, are based upon sodium nitrate, which is a harmless, odor-free fertilizer. If you have used a strong-smelling blue chemical, you operated the head incorrectly. They are also hard on the joker valve and hoses, which may explain other problems. Operator error.

b. Yes, Joker valves get replaced ~ annually. If you switch to the Raritan joker (fits Jabsco just fine) it will last about 2-3 times longer. Takes only minutes and isn't messy unless you don't flush.

c. Back-up system? That is called a bucket, which is about the same thing as a composting head. But I don't know why you would need a a back-up. They are easy to fix.

d. Hose replacement. that is over 10 years with premium hose. Give me a break.

e. Clogging. I've never had one. Generally either installation errors or operation errors, which happen to both types.

f. Beating hoses out. Not with periodic acid treatment or with fresh flush. 


----


I guess I see it as a matter of taste. But flogging either simply because you don't understand it is silly.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

First and foremost, all objections about chemicals and odors in a traditional holding tank are incredibly ironic. It's the chemicals that cause the odor over time, by killing the good bacteria with the bad. There is absolutely no reason for a holding tank to smell, whatsoever. It only happens, because people use them incorrectly. Stop putting chemicals in them!! Specifically, most do not flush with enough clean water to clear the hoses. They think once the waste is no longer visible, it's gone, like at home. Marine heads work differently and you need to chase the waste to push it to the holding tank.

Secondly, the typical porta-potty requires chemicals, because they contain a slurry of unvented waste in a tank below the bowl that won't decompose the way a holding tank is designed to. Within reason, there is nothing wrong with waste going in the water (obviously waste should not be dumped in closed harbors, etc). It's the chemicals that people keep adding to their waste that are bad for the environment! Your porta potty is going to need to be emptied somewhere. Where are you going to do that?

It really kills me when we pump out or dump waste ashore and the locals just pipe it right back into the water. People are nuts.

Composters have a following, as you see above. They suit some. You can go much longer between having to deal with waste disposal. My biggest objection is exposing a guest to one. You also will need to dispose of the "compost", which is not composted at all. At least at the time you throw it out. It's just a bag with yesterday's turd in it, which you toss in a dumpster. Where are you going to do that? Compost that is sealed in a bag, isn't going to continue composting either. Where are you going to get compost media in the Bahamas?

I assume most (all?) composting users pour their urine overboard? Technically, it's as illegal as dumping solid waste and no less impactful on the environment (uric acid, pharmaceuticals, etc). I argue neither are all that impactful, if done in proper locations. I just push back, when I hear the composters are more environmentally friendly.

I've used them at campsites, when there were no other options.

For the boat, I prefer a properly designed and properly used holding tank. Largest you can fit. If you only have one head, it should be manual.

But, to each their own.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

pdqaltair said:


> I guess I see it as a matter of taste. But flogging either simply because you don't understand it is silly.


Exactly. Those who say composters (or indeed, standard marine heads) are too complicated are just plain silly, or being willfully ignorant. Either will require some minimal directions for new users.

Both systems work just fine when used properly and appropriately. There are plusses and minuses to each. Which is 'best' will depend on your crew size, cruising location, boat type and whether you can handle being slightly more intimate with your outflows. Based on my having owned and used *both* quite extensively, I conclude a composting head is simply better for me and my crew/boat. You may conclude otherwise.

The important point for those who are considering making the switch it to go read what actual owners say.


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## cthoops (Apr 30, 2012)

I think that the topic of heads (be it marine, composting, portapotties) is probably one of the top three categories in sailing forums that get people worked up (anchors and bluewater boats being the other two). People tend to have their minds made up for all three and nothing anyone can say will change them. Ultimately it's up to each person who is looking for information to do the research, read the opinions (try to filter out the ones that aren't based on actual experience), and decide what's best for that person.


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

First let me say that this is the greatest forum on Earth for hearing excellent suggestions and debates coming from REAL users! It is so good to hear people sharing their honest experiences of the system they chose and continue to use over the years! So much good information here to “digest”.

Thank You!

My main reason for wanting to switch out the current system is that it does not work. It was installed in 1999 and most likely maintained, but now it is time to rebuild it. I could buy several parts kits, but even then the holding tank appears to be just a jerry-rigged concoction meant to be present for USGC inspections.

I’d like to remove the old system and simplify it. One (or several) less part(s) means less stress and less spare parts to carry and keep track of. I’ve seen some folks have brilliant systems for spare parts, but if I have a choice, I’d chose simplicity over pleasing my quests.

To those of you that installed composting head, did you glass over the through-hulls or leave them in place? If you left them in place, did you also leave the sea-**** or is there a “bomb-proof” method of plugging them from the inside and or outside?


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Nicely said scubadoo. 

So far, I've left my outflow thru-hull and seacock in place. I left about 10 cm of hose on the seacock, and then pounded and double-clamped a wood dowel in place. The seacock remains closed at all times.

The reason I haven't sealed it up is b/c mine is in a tight location, very close to a bulkhead. I can't bevel and seal it from the inside (at least, I haven't figured out how to do it). My hull is also cored (Airex) so I'm pretty cautious about managing all my holes. I would rather seal the hole, and if I can figure out how to seal it properly I will, but for now I'm leaving it in place.

I've converted the raw water intake thru-hull into a anchor wash-down intake (something I didn't have before).


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

scubadoo said:


> Thinking about replacing the existing marine head (Jabsco) with a porta potty, something like a Thetford 550P (MSD) or a composting toilet.
> 
> I'll be doing some long term cruising around the Bahamas, but intend to be in a slip at least once every two weeks. I know some of the bigger marinas have pump out stations, but I'm not too sure about the smaller ones.
> 
> ...


Well between a porta-potty and a composting head it is a no brainier. Porta-potties are OK for weekends and day sailing, but for extended use are awful. It is going to turn your waste into a nasty slurry and chemical mess. Every marine facility bathroom I have seen says no dumping porta-potties. So what do you do with the mess? Even as back up they are nasty and should not be dumped overboard even off shore. If your boat has a working system you may be able to get away with replacing the hoses and perhaps the head itself. Likely going to cost about a half a boat buck. If your tank is leaking then you can expect to spend about a boat buck. You should improve the ventilation of the tank and that will help with smell (bigger vent hoses). As has been stated above if you go standard do not cheap out on the toilet, get a good one. Composting heads start at about $600, and go up to about a grand if you want to go with a manufactured system. Can be emptied into a plastic bag and put into a dumpster. Self built ones can be cheaper. All of the above does not include labor.

Either system will work, I don't think the argument of "using something that is like home" is valid as no marine toilet will function like a home one, and I think making it function differently helps to reduce the chances of things being flushed down that may give trouble. I would have to think that most of the clogs are caused by guests. And I would not design my boat around guests anyway as they don't pay the bills.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

My advice is to buy a new Jabsco head and plumb it in properly.

Theres a reason why Jabsco heads have such market leadership: they are good.


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

miatapaul said:


> Either system will work, I don't think the argument of "using something that is like home" is valid as no marine toilet will function like a home one, and I think making it function differently helps to reduce the chances of things being flushed down that may give trouble. I would have to think that most of the clogs are caused by guests. And I would not design my boat around guests anyway as they don't pay the bills.


Miata... I take you've never been on a boat with an electric toilet? I guarantee you'll think twice. My electric unit works with touch pad (converted from a home touch lightpad purchased at Home Depot)
it uses freshwater for the rinse and let me tell you it is simpler than the vacu-flush the airlines uses for their toilets... this is as simple as... use the toilet, close the lid, touch the pad... walk away... if it did not flush all contents in the bowl, touch the pad again... nothing could be simpler for 'guests' that know nothing about marine heads, etc... so far my system works far above my expectations... actually it works better than my 'home toilet' if not that I have to be aware of the fresh water supply to the unit and the holding tank... but in any marine head/composting unit it needs to be monitored... right?


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

There's no such thing as a marine head that doesn't require constant maintenance of some kind. I almost put in a new holding tank system before deciding to try the composter. Probably the main reason for not doing a standard head setup was that I simply could not find space for a decent sized holding tank. 

The use of fresh water for flushing is really impossible for most long distance cruisers unless in a big boat with a large capacity r.o. watermaker. For most cruisers that's not the case. There just isn't power to supply a big watermaker. Water conservation is a big issue. If at a dock all the time, with a dockside hookup, that would probably be a good way to go.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

oldfurr said:


> I think you should look at the LaVac popular, no electric pumps needed and easy rigging for overboard discharge from your holding tank or directly from the head ( see installation diagrams #3 & #4 in the FAQ link ) they are down to about 3 pints per flush nowadays according to the manufacturer and are super reliable in service and easier to service when needed compared to conventional heads. You even get an easy extra bilge pump system out of the deal.
> 
> Lavac Marine Toilets - Popular
> Lavac Marine Toilets - Frequently Asked Questions


Thumbs up from me too! Spent a lot of time on my knees fixing the old Wilcox Critterdon that came with the boat. Put in a Lavac in about eight years ago and have not touched it since. :laugh Love the Lavac!


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

smurphny said:


> There's no such thing as a marine head that doesn't require constant maintenance of some kind. I almost put in a new holding tank system before deciding to try the composter. Probably the main reason for not doing a standard head setup was that I simply could not find space for a decent sized holding tank.
> 
> The use of fresh water for flushing is really impossible for most long distance cruisers unless in a big boat with a large capacity r.o. watermaker. For most cruisers that's not the case. There just isn't power to supply a big watermaker. Water conservation is a big issue. If at a dock all the time, with a dockside hookup, that would probably be a good way to go.


Brand new TMC freshwater unit... maintenance free for the next 5-10 years hopefully.... if you've read my previous post on the installation you will read it can be changed to use 'raw saltwater' by flipping several valves... so 'watermaker'... really? If you've had troubles with your marine head than that is on you for not repairing/maintaining it... so most people opt out for the cheap way out which is to install a porta pottie/composter... that's what many in my marina have done to avoid paying a $5.00 pump out fee... really?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Forgot another mention earlier. For a full time cruiser, there is absolutely no need to flush with fresh water. Again, no reason for a holding tank to smell, but especially from salt water. If you are constantly using the head, the water within the intake line will never foul either.


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

Minnewaska said:


> Forgot another mention earlier. For a full time cruiser, there is absolutely no need to flush with fresh water. Again, no reason for a holding tank to smell, but especially from salt water. If you are constantly using the head, the water within the intake line will never foul either.


Fortunately Minnie that is only your opinion.... the opinion and the business and makers of Freshwater Marine Heads have a different opinion and many major yachts and quality sailboats have these freshwater units in them... I can guarantee the smell in my head will be much much fresher smelling than any raw water system or composting system... You should try it one day... you won't go back to any other system... closest would be the vacu-flush system... but they too use freshwater I believe... correct me if I'm wrong. Doesn't the Lavac system use an electric diaphragm pump to create the vacuum? So yes it is electric too...


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## BMLipiec (Feb 3, 2009)

scubadoo said:


> To those of you that installed composting head, did you glass over the through-hulls or leave them in place? If you left them in place, did you also leave the sea-**** or is there a "bomb-proof" method of plugging them from the inside and or outside?


I found a bronze pipe cap and capped off the through-hull. When I went this route I wanted the option to go back if needed. Also, as you can see by the posts here, some people are pretty offended by the whole idea and it will hurt your resale of the boat later on. I removed all of the old hoses but the infrastructure is still there and could replumb it to factory original in a weekend.


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

Looked at the install instructions for both the Air Head and Nature’s Head. The websites show the unit dimensions, but very little information on the clearance dimensions required for removing the solid waste compartment. I have a space about 28” wide (wall to wall) and 26” deep (to cheapo liner panel that could be removed for an additional 4” to 6”), it looks like more than enough room, but what am I missing?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

guitarguy56 said:


> Fortunately Minnie that is only your opinion....
> 
> Perhaps, but if you properly flush a marine head, the bowl should be left empty, so what is exposed to smell? I more typically hear the argument that it keeps the holding tank from smelling, but that is demonstrably unnecessary.
> 
> ...


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

scubadoo said:


> Looked at the install instructions for both the Air Head and Nature's Head. The websites show the unit dimensions, but very little information on the clearance dimensions required for removing the solid waste compartment. I have a space about 28" wide (wall to wall) and 26" deep (to cheapo liner panel that could be removed for an additional 4" to 6"), it looks like more than enough room, but what am I missing?


I can't comment on the AH, but the NH works by unsnapping the seat part, then tilting it slightly so the whole thing can be slid off to one side. So you need a few inches (website says 1.5") from the back wall so it can pivot, and you need about 2" (according to the website ... I'd guess you need a bit more) to slide the seat off the back hinge to the left.

From there you just unbolt the whole bottom from the floor bracket (using two hand-grip nuts ... not sure what the proper term is), and pick up the base.

Nature's Head Installation


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

Minnewaska said:


> Of course they do, they need to sell their product.
> 
> However, I suspect it is more likely playing to the myth than the reality of salt v fresh. Myths sell.


Might be a myth to you but I don't see million dollar yachts or even $150K sailboats new off the factory with NH or AH composting toilets do you? It isn't even offered as an option!

Maybe missing something here as I told it several times earlier the unit uses freshwater as the primary source and can use raw saltwater if needed.... why the argument?

Those owners happy with the composting units... Fine... just don't dismiss that there are many of us more than happy with our units... I'm not converting anyone here... OP asked several questions and if he's fit on converting to composting unit... my take on this has ended now... no further comments on my part... I'll join the 'happy marine head' thread... unfortunately we get the composting crowd pushing their fabulous product on us!


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

guitarguy56 said:


> Those owners happy with the composting units... Fine... just don't dismiss that there are many of us more than happy with our units... I'm not converting anyone here... OP asked several questions and if he's fit on converting to composting unit... my take on this has ended now... no further comments on my part... I'll join the 'happy marine head' thread... unfortunately we get the composting crowd pushing their fabulous product on us!


Yes, and vice versa GG. From my perspective, it's all the uninformed naysayers who insist on dissing composting heads without even having owned one. I answered the OPs questions, and tried to respond to others as they came up. I try and speak from actual experience. I've never said standard marine heads are bad. I had one for many years with few problems. I just think a composter is better in many circumstances: smallish boats, two-person crew, remote travel, anchoring out most of the time, someone who values simplicity, etc.

If you don't fit this criteria, then a composting head is not for you. And that's OK :kiss.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

With fresh water flushing toilets aren't you just an O-ring failure away from dysentery?

MedSailor


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## Delta-T (Oct 8, 2013)

Here is my two cents. This year I designed my own composting head, designed after the C head. To goals:. 1. I had limited space and could not fit these manufactured systems in the space I have. 2. To be able to stand up and pee. I accomplish both. See my video. I also made changing the pee bucket easier than the C head and added a night light to illuminate the pee bucket.

What no one has mentioned is, I'm not got to have a head that is designed for company's comfort,when they are less than 1% of the use and if you are cruising, you will have little to on visitors. Little to no maintenance. No black water tanks, etc... you have all covered that.

Down side, you need to empty the pee bucket before sailing to be on the safe side, or cap it and put in an empty bucket.

I have been very happy with the system in the last month and a half. I have emptied it twice just because the paddle was not able to push thru the media. I just cut one side of the paddle off, like the C head that has only a paddle on one side and I now have at least 4 times the torque. I am going to install a veritable speed controller so I can easily dial in the speed. Too much speed and the dust flys, not enough torque and she wont turn. As the media gets full, it gets harder to turn...


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## guitarguy56 (Oct 10, 2012)

MedSailor said:


> With fresh water flushing toilets aren't you just an O-ring failure away from dysentery?
> 
> MedSailor


Med... not sure how you figure that... I have a seperate 20 gal tank I plumbed for the TMC marine head.... it has nothing to do with my 27 gallon potable water system and the two systems aren't even connected... never will be.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

Minnewaska said:


> Forgot another mention earlier. For a full time cruiser, there is absolutely no need to flush with fresh water. Again, no reason for a holding tank to smell, but especially from salt water. If you are constantly using the head, the water within the intake line will never foul either.


What he said.

The only time salt water gets smelly is if it has been in the pipes for several days. And, interestingly, when you flush for the first time after several days (or more) the smell of stale seawater is gone in seconds, it doesn't hang about like sewerage.

So for someone sailing regularly or living aboard there is no problem with sea water flush.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

guitarguy56 said:


> . . . . the business and makers of Freshwater Marine Heads have a different opinion


No doubt . . . .


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

*: So for someone sailing regularly or living aboard there is no problem with sea water flush."*

Or direct discharge...


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## Aquarian (Nov 8, 2010)

Airhead composting and DD with a dummy tank for legal issues for us. Use airhead in port and DD out to sea.


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## Atlas (Aug 21, 2012)

Aquarian, does that mean you have to install two separate heads (airhead + another for direct discharge)?


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

That is a downside of a composting head. You can't just switch a Y valve to direct discharge when cruising. The other side of this is that a composter eliminates one large thru hull. I was glad to glass in that 2" hole in the bottom.


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

capta said:


> On a 30' boat, I don't believe you are going to be able to use a composting toilet.


I have a space approximately 28" wide x 26" deep, looking at the Air Head and Nature Head sites it appears that the unit with clearance (for the vent hose and agitating handle) is around 20"W x 20"D (roughly). The sites don't seem to clearly show how you empty the base, but this seems to be plenty of room. Does this seem reasonable to you, I know I'm missing something.

Thanks!


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## cthoops (Apr 30, 2012)

scubadoo said:


> I have a space approximately 28" wide x 26" deep, looking at the Air Head and Nature Head sites it appears that the unit with clearance (for the vent hose and agitating handle) is around 20"W x 20"D (roughly). The sites don't seem to clearly show how you empty the base, but this seems to be plenty of room. Does this seem reasonable to you, I know I'm missing something.
> 
> Thanks!


That's plenty of space. Much more than we had.

To empty the base for the Nature's Head you lift the seat unit a few inches and then slide it to the left to separate it from the lower unit. Unscrew the knobs from the base and you can remove the lower unit to empty it. Their website has a link where you can download the users manual. Not sure about the Airhead.


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## Delta-T (Oct 8, 2013)

USGS requires the head to be secured, just an FYI.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Delta-T said:


> USGS requires the head to be secured, just an FYI.


Well sounds like a good idea! Could get ugly if you did not.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

scubadoo said:


> I have a space approximately 28" wide x 26" deep, looking at the Air Head and Nature Head sites it appears that the unit with clearance (for the vent hose and agitating handle) is around 20"W x 20"D (roughly). The sites don't seem to clearly show how you empty the base, but this seems to be plenty of room. Does this seem reasonable to you, I know I'm missing something.
> 
> Thanks!


That is WAY more room than I had. That's why I had no choice but to build one in. Even the smallest units I could find would not fit the space available. One thing I did not like about the commercially produced composters was that they were all quite high. My boat has a little platform which creates the space for the head. It is 6" high off the deck already before the height of the head. Would have looked silly even if it would have fit dimensionally.


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## Simply Sailing (Jun 9, 2015)

We are full time liveaboards (15 years, 7 of them in the Caribbean) and have an Air Head toilet that we LOVE. It is a smaller footprint than some other brands, so it fits in our head nicely. Low maintenance and just a great product. We bought one for our "little" boat that we played around with one summer, too. And installed one in an RV we bought for land travel one year. No better solution.


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## oldfurr (Dec 25, 2012)

Doesn't the Lavac system use an electric diaphragm pump to create the vacuum? So yes it is electric too... ;)[/QUOTE said:


> Actually the standard is a Whale type diaphragm hand pump, but you can opt for the electric pump setup.
> Lavac Marine Toilets - Pumps


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

oldfurr said:


> Actually the standard is a Whale type diaphragm hand pump, but you can opt for the electric pump setup.
> Lavac Marine Toilets - Pumps


My Lavvac heads are manual as well. I think most are.

MedSailor


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## Aquarian (Nov 8, 2010)

Atlas said:


> Aquarian, does that mean you have to install two separate heads (airhead + another for direct discharge)?


Yes, we have 2 heads already. So one will be replaced with an Airhead. The other will be a manual marine head with a y-valve that, God willing, will only be turned to the holding tank when in port and not in use. If we had only 1 head, it would be an airhead.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Just wondering.
Let's say you are actually cruising. This usual involves a passage now and again. So you are on passage for a week or two. It's bumpy. You taken on extra crew so you can get more sleep. Head gets used a lot. How do you dump head without spilling?
Yup it's bumpy. How do you not mix one with two?
Heads to starboard. You are on port tack. How do you not mix?
Heads to port. You are on port tack. How do the ladies not mix?
You get to paradise. Find the perfect spot. Anchor off your uninhabited island. Bride says " let's stay here for a couple of weeks". How to do you empty head? No dumpsters . 
In short think composting is a great idea but not if the boat will be used for passages or off the grid.
Think heads should be plumbed to take either fresh or salt. Salt on passage or off the grid. Fresh otherwise.
If you have electric second should be manual.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Outbound, these issues have been discussed before. There are answers to all your various "what if" scenarios. We both could come up with as many "what if" scenarios that would pose a challenge for standard marine heads. The point is, everything you are apparently concerned about can be managed, as can most issues with a standard marine head. 

There are plusses and mines to each system. I've said it many times now, but based on my actual experience living with BOTH systems for many years, I conclude a composting head is the best choice for a full-time crew of two (and more if it's only periodic/short-term usage). Most other compost head owners appear to agree, but you may conclude otherwise.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Thanks Mike. But wondering the specifics. Originally spec'd a airhead for one of the heads but was talked out of it by broker and other cruisers. Always wondered about that decision. Fortunate in Caribbean it's straight overboard and up here get out frequently enough pass dump limit its yet to be an issue. Hopefully things won't change. Major concern is if we don't go south for the winter. Pump out boats disappear and many stations are closed. Composing would seem to solve that issue.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

outbound said:


> Just wondering.
> Let's say you are actually cruising. This usual involves a passage now and again. So you are on passage for a week or two. It's bumpy. You taken on extra crew so you can get more sleep. Head gets used a lot. How do you dump head without spilling?
> Yup it's bumpy. How do you not mix one with two?
> Heads to starboard. You are on port tack. How do you not mix?
> ...


I keep some extra sheetrock pails aboard to store compost if away from a place to dispose of it. Have only had to do that once. With just me aboard, it's only necessary to remove composted material around once a month. The capacity of a unit should be calculated for the amount of users before installing. What gets removed IS composted and not raw turds as suggested above. Anyway, where do diapers and such go? It's not an issue.

One of the rules of composters is that if your aim (male) is compromised, you sit. I have that posted next to the head on day-glow paper

Offshore, waste can be simply thrown overboard. It is, believe it or not, a natural substance unlike highly formaldehyde-laced chemical waste from a holding tank pumped overboard.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

I don't understand about formaldehyde. Was taught never, never put chemicals into a head. Never pore oil into them. Buy cheap single sheet TP at the box store as it's the same thing as marine TP. Clean the vent periodically as its anaerobic bacteria that make the smell. Keep small paper bag in small trash can next to head for the baby wipes and napkins. Do above and life is good.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

OK, fair enough. I'll give it a try...



outbound said:


> Just wondering.
> Let's say you are actually cruising. This usual involves a passage now and again. So you are on passage for a week or two. It's bumpy. You taken on extra crew so you can get more sleep. Head gets used a lot. How do you dump head without spilling?


How do you do it in bumpy seas? Carefully, I suppose .

Dumping our Nature's Head (can't speak for others) is the most difficult part of the process, and it's not very difficult. For the two of us, we have to do it every five to six weeks. It involves removing the seat via two quick snaps, then lifting the base out. The base is secured via two hand-driven bolts (not sure what the proper term is), so easy to disconnect.

If I were out at sea I'd heave it over the side (carefully). In remote anchorages I dump it on land, far away from human traffic. In urban anchorages, find a dumpster, or an outhouse. As others have said, you're not dealing with fresh turds. It's like handling moist soil. I know those of you who are skeptics don't believe this, but there is absolutely nothing offensive about the material -- even the final deposits seem



outbound said:


> Yup it's bumpy. How do you not mix one with two?
> Heads to starboard. You are on port tack. How do you not mix?
> Heads to port. You are on port tack. How do the ladies not mix?


Speaking from the male perspective, it would be pretty hard to miss the target. NH's urine path is a funnel, so you'd really have to be working hard to miss, even well heeled over. I just asked my wife, and she looked quizzically at the question: "It's never been a problem. I can't think of how it could be."

My further take on this question is that if you boat is so far heeled that it ever became an issue, then you have bigger problems.



outbound said:


> You get to paradise. Find the perfect spot. Anchor off your uninhabited island. Bride says " let's stay here for a couple of weeks". How to do you empty head? No dumpsters .


No problem. Dig a shallow hole and dump it away from human traffic. This is the BEST part of a composting head. You can get far off the beaten path, and not have to worry about crapping up a nice little anchorage, or cutting your time short to look for a pump out dock.

I hope that helps outbound.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

outbound said:


> I don't understand about formaldehyde. Was taught never, never put chemicals into a head. Never pore oil into them. Buy cheap single sheet TP at the box store as it's the same thing as marine TP. Clean the vent periodically as its anaerobic bacteria that make the smell. Keep small paper bag in small trash can next to head for the baby wipes and napkins. Do above and life is good.


Stuff like this has formaldehyde: Aqua-Kem Deodorant - Six 8 oz. bottles - Thetford 03106 - Sewer Deodorizers & Treatment - Camping World

Formaldehyde has a distinctive smell that can be found around marinas and boatyards where people have stuff like it in their holding tanks. It should not be used in marine heads but unfortunately, it gets used.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

No chemicals should ever be put into a holding tank. I agree that many dummies do so anyway, but ironically, they only make it worse.

Nevertheless, formaldehyde is not a variable that should cause one to choose a composter. 

I thought Outbounds questions were genuine and unlike those I've heard asked before. If they are answered within another thread, I haven't seen it.

Based on Mike's math, a crew of four or six is going to have to empty the composter every week or two. Has anyone here ever done so offshore in 10 ft seas or a gale? A holding tank doesn't care. I'm not saying a composter is evil, I just didn't think the issue was given the proper recognition as favoring a traditional system.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

My current boat has 2 heads (which I find funny because my house only has one ). 

One head is a LetraSan system that is a Type I MSD and treats the sewage after every flush and pumps the treated waste overboard. It's highly complex, uses heaps of power (50Amps of 24v I believe) and represents one end of the poop spectrum.

My other head is a traditional marine jabsco throne with a holding tank and Y valve. The holding tank has a manual pump as well for discharge in addition to the deck poop pump portal. It was leaking at the time of purchase and now the holding tank has been replaced (at great expense).

My prior boat had a standard system that I ripped out and put in a Nature's Head. I lived aboard with my wife and we both used the Nature's Head full time for 4 years. 

Prior to that, I completely built my own traditional holding tank system using mostly rigid PVC and lived aboard full time (2 of us) and cruised for up to 4.5 months. Had that boat and lived aboard for 6 years. 


Give me a little while to play with the fancy new unit, and to live with the traditional system again after 4 years of the composter and I should be in a position to write the definitive edict that will silence this debate forever. When I do so, I promise to write said edict from the throne of my preference.

MedSailor


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

While you're at it, Med. Why don't you try all the different anchors out there and write an edict on which is best.


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## jslade8581 (Aug 3, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> Based on Mike's math, a crew of four or six is going to have to empty the composter every week or two. Has anyone here ever done so offshore in 10 ft seas or a gale? A holding tank doesn't care. I'm not saying a composter is evil, I just didn't think the issue was given the proper recognition as favoring a traditional system.


The traditional system, prior to holding tanks, was a bucket which was tossed overboard. In fact, reading books about more recent adventures (well into the 70s) suggests that buckets were used quite often.

In the book Ice Bird, I was shocked at how easily the narrator discussed attempting to throw his waste bucket bucket overboard (but first, having to move it into the cockpit) when it ended up on him. And on his deck in his cabin. Totally nonchalant.

Seriously though, the Air Head is expected to hold up to 80 deposits. With a crew of 4, that's 20 days. With a crew of 2, that's at least a month. As discussed earlier, you can move the composted material into a bucket, or Air Head will happily send you a second bottom "bucket" (or more) to have onboard for additional storage.

The material really isn't scary at all. In fact, I scared myself a little bit this last summer. I injured myself sailing a friend's boat while my boat was on the hard, and I was unable to empty my Air Head for about 6 months later than I wanted to. I had even already sealed it up. If a holding tank is sealed, we know the dangers of H2S2. So, when I opened my bucket, I was very concerned. I needn't have been - it was the same as opening a bag of organic soil, and had the same consistency.

However - I'll say this. If I had two heads on my boat, and I was going offshore for a long period of time, I'd probably have both a regular head and an Air Head. The Air Head would absolutely get the most business, but the regular head would get used if I needed it.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

J excellent insight. Thank you for speaking to the issue. What's the time span(s) for pee. I try to tract state of hydration of myself and crew. Think it very important for performance. Has it been an issue getting and storing the substrate? Or am I going to be climbing for coconut husks?:laugh


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

jslade8581 said:


> The traditional system, prior to holding tanks, was a bucket which was tossed overboard.


I guess so, but the term head comes from a hole up by the bowsprit, which was used as a toilet and cleaned by wave action.

That said, I can say that I've both seen and used the bucket method in my lifetime. Solely out of absolute necessity.



> As discussed earlier, you can move the composted material into a bucket, or Air Head will happily send you a second bottom "bucket" (or more) to have onboard for additional storage.


A bucket with a lid is a good idea for storage and sounds much easier than dumping over the rail in a good blow. Still, I give the advantage to a "contemporary" system on this one, when offshore. Flush, gone. No storage, no transferring.


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## cthoops (Apr 30, 2012)

outbound said:


> What's the time span(s) for pee. I try to tract state of hydration of myself and crew. Think it very important for performance. Has it been an issue getting and storing the substrate? Or am I going to be climbing for coconut husks?:laugh


I've found that for the two of us we typically need to empty the pee jug every 48 hours or so. It depends on how much time we've been on the boat during that period.

The coir is easy to get online, and is quite compact. We would have no problem storing a year's worth in very little space.


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## hellsop (Jun 3, 2014)

smurphny said:


> One of the rules of composters is that if your aim (male) is compromised, you sit. I have that posted next to the head on day-glow paper


It's a boat, mon. Ever-body sits. Nevermind who you are, what your individual plumbing is, how good your aim is, on trains planes and boats, everybody sits. First person to violate that rule gets head-cleaning duty until someone else screws up.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> I thought Outbounds questions were genuine and unlike those I've heard asked before. If they are answered within another thread, I haven't seen it.


I made an effort to answer Outbound's questions. If I sound a bit terse I apologize. All boat systems, including all heads, have strengths and weaknesses. Will there be problems with composting heads? Yes. How do you deal with them? Like you do with everything ... the best you can. In some situations a composting head will do worse than a standard marine head. In my opinion, and the opinion of virtually all other owners of composters, our heads will be superior most of the time IF they are used appropriately.



Minnewaska said:


> Based on Mike's math, a crew of four or six is going to have to empty the composter every week or two. Has anyone here ever done so offshore in 10 ft seas or a gale? A holding tank doesn't care. I'm not saying a composter is evil, I just didn't think the issue was given the proper recognition as favoring a traditional system.


The commercial composting heads are not designed to be used by more than two crew full time. They can be used by larger crew for shorter periods. But if you are a crew of four or six you either can't use a composter full time, or you need to have multiple heads. It's a bit like asking why your screws aren't going in properly when you're using a hammer. It's the wrong tool, used in the wrong way. If you do that you will get poor results.

As for the gale question, the answer is simple: don't. A composting head doesn't switch from working to not working. It's a gradual process that stretches over weeks (_if_ the head is being used as designed). You really have to work hard to construct a scenario which leads to having to dump in a gale.


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## Livia (Jul 20, 2006)

scubadoo said:


> I like what I've read about the vacuum systems, but I haven't found one that can be manually pumped&#8230;.maybe there's one out there?


 Perhaps someone has already said this but the *manual* Lavac is awesome. On our boat we say "Once you go Lavac, you never go back" 

We installed ours 4.5 years ago, full time living aboard and cruising, and have NEVER done any maintenance other than oil/vinegar and once we replaced the seat seals.

The Great Toilet Crisis: Installing our Lavac | Estrellita 5.10b


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Livia said:


> Perhaps someone has already said this but the *manual* Lavac is awesome. On our boat we say "Once you go Lavac, you never go back"
> 
> We installed ours 4.5 years ago, full time living aboard and cruising, and have NEVER done any maintenance other than oil/vinegar and once we replaced the seat seals.
> 
> The Great Toilet Crisis: Installing our Lavac | Estrellita 5.10b


If I'm not mistaken, Lavac also makes a model that can be operated both electrically and manually. That's a huge advantage.

Just stop putting oil into your holding tank. It's skims on the top and kills good aerobic bacteria. Even when you pump out, you're not likely to get the top inch or so of fluid out. Perhaps you're direct discharge.


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