# Pirates 'seize UK yacht couple'



## rikhall (Feb 7, 2008)

Just saw this one on the BBC News this morning

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Kent | Pirates 'seize UK yacht couple'

Rik


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I'm sorry - I just don't get it. Why does one choose to sail through those waters? I guess it's always a gamble regardless - but pick a game with better odds.


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## legarots (Jun 9, 2009)

Interesting, I thought they only went after larger ships...


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## DropTop (May 7, 2009)

Another article about it...
British Couple Hijacked by Somali Pirates - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Wasn't there another younger couple a few months ago that got snagged? Maybe French? I think one of them was killed when commandos stormed the boat to rescue them.

Those Soms will go after anything that will bring in a few bucks.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

smackdaddy said:


> I'm sorry - I just don't get it. Why does one choose to sail through those waters? I guess it's always a gamble regardless - but pick a game with better odds.


Smack,

I think the answer to this is simply routing. Once you get to certain points in the world it is natural that you will have to make a decision about which way you are going to go, and from the Indian ocean you either have to go around South Africa or through the Suez, you don't really have a choice about it, and the Suez is certainly easier if you're going to the Med. It isn't just hard to go around the waters the Somali pirates are in, it is incredibly challenging to go around, the area essentially covers the route that everyone almost has to go. It is no small area to try to go around and the fact that the route is dangerous causes routing problems as far back across the ocean as Australia when people are planning which way they will sail to get back to the U.S. and Europe from the South Pacific.


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## Superpickle (Oct 17, 2009)

These Num nuttz are incredably Stupid IMHO.
Why go 
ANYWHERE near thos crazy nut balls in Somolia. 
These Pirats Know, nobodys going to do anything about it. How many ships are they going to take and How many times has ANYone done anything, a Couple ???
Thing is, they Know where these scumbags are working from. Send a Cruise into their window as a wake up call.. 
Does ANYbody have a few DDs patroling that area. Hell, reactivate some old PT boats and go in there and Hunt them down till they get the hint. 
Untill then, anyone getting taken by these lowlife dirtbags is STUPID.

Natural Selection , id say


:gunner


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## kairetu (Oct 6, 2009)

Hmmm, Superpickle, I suspect that this couple's family and friends have another view. They were picked up leaving the Seyshelles which is quite a distance from Somali shores. They probably didn't think the risk was quite as high. Most people tend to organise convoys if sailing through Suez and in high risk waters. This couple were sailing towards Tanzania so they were a little out of the highest risk areas. Not stupid. Very unlucky.


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## Moodyjim (Sep 2, 2009)

Yes some of the comments above are written without coherent thought. The couple were heading well south of the normal Somalia pirate area towards Tanzania (which is a peaceful country) and were not to know that there was a pirate boat on the hunt not so far from the Seychelles where they apparently failed in an attack on another ship of some sort. Apparently the recent improvement in weather conditions together with the improved protection provided further north is encouraging the assholes to try much further south than before. Superpickle's comments are correct in assessing the humanity of the pirates but worthless and childish with reference to the fairly elderly couple who are not rich.


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## yellowwducky (Nov 6, 2008)

Dang, thats a bit worrying.

I don't own a boat but I am working on my plan for getting one to do a circumnavigation. My 'plan' for route to avoid the mess near Somalia would be to do Sri Lanka/Maldives then south to Diego Garcia and then over to Seychelles. From there due south to Madagascar - maybe cutting around the west near Glorioso Islands but possibly staying east and just going to Mauritius and then around the southern point of Madagascar.

This I would have thought would be ideal for keeping away from the craziness of Somalia. Now one would almost need to be thinking Diego Garcia direct to Mauritius so you don't get anywhere near the problem - and I bet its not ideal sailing locale but I would rather risk bad weather than an extended 'visit' with Somalian 'hosts'.


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## Moodyjim (Sep 2, 2009)

Things change quite rapidly and as you haven't yet got a boat then it's probably best to just monitor the situation until it's nearer the time to set off on your voyage. It's maybe a bit early to set your route in stone.


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## legarots (Jun 9, 2009)

Here's a map of their route. Also Brown summoned Cobra today.










Brown summons Cobra as kidnapped couple's yacht found adrift - Times Online


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## kootenay (Sep 7, 2009)

I guess there are only a few solutions to this problem. The approach taken by the Americans "on the shores of Tripoli" in the 19th century. Invade and kill them all, isolate and starve them into submission, or solve the bloody problem in somalia once and for all which really involves the first approach. In the meantime perhaps escorted convoys might help solve the immediate problem. Arming civilian vessels dosent seem a workable solution but a number of Q ships may help put the fear of god into the pirates. I will be sure to include this couple in my prayers.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Thanks for the route map lega. Seeing that it does seem they everything they could to avoid Somali waters.

So - with this happening, what's the answer to cruisers who have to go through the area? Sri Lanka to Madagascar?


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## gafferduck (Mar 14, 2009)

I don't think there is going to be a quick solution to somalia pirates if anything It will get worse and could spread to neighbouring countries , look at Afghanistan are we there yet? 

Chandlers were very unlucky, I wonder if they had any training or knowledge on this matter. Send the SAS.


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

There is another solution that doesnt require invasion - Blockade them. Dont let any boats go beyond the 12 mile limit. Sure, that would result in some hardship but that is the price they pay for being a haven for pirates. It would be much easier than patrolling the whole Arabian Sea.


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## yellowwducky (Nov 6, 2008)

1600 miles of coast and you would need what, a destroyer ever 15 miles. 100 and change military vessels. Who is gonna send all those ships? Who even has that many.

Its easy money for these guys. The money needs to be made much more difficult and risky; so sink any suspected boats and kill all suspected pirates on sight. Predator drones? Popular decision, no but diplomacy doesn't work with thugs now does it?


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

Yellow ducky. I see that you are being reasonable and trying to make a military presence seem impossible. The fact is that the military technology available to powerful nations is beyond most civilians' comprehension. It would be quite easy for the U.S. and other powers to put a stop to this piracy. I think the issue is that there is a lack of will to do so. There surely is no lack of means, military satellite imagery can pinpoint a dinghy nearly anywhere on the globe at nearly any time. The U.S. military is larger than many nations, and has a huge economy wrapped up with it. With a handful of aircraft, satellite surveillance and some solid naval strategy, the pirates would be history in a few minutes. The whole thing could be acheived with a small number of men. The problem is that large nations don't really care. There is no benefit to the United States seen by stopping these pirates. They are less of a hazard to commercial shipping than weather, they are basically petty in the eyes of a large nation, and they don't offer anything as a prize for their extermination. In short, pirates are to militaries as fruit flies are to a restaurant staff. Sure they are annoying, but it wouldn't be difficult to exterminate them, it's just that there are bigger fish to fry. 


If I were to sail through pirate alley... well, I hope you have seen the anti-theft flamethrowers on cars.


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## yellowwducky (Nov 6, 2008)

I do agree, there may likely be that many ships but yes, who would commit them to this task. No real upside like you say and as soon as you uncommitted, the problem would just rise up again.

The shame is, it makes one think about even going to the Seychelles, a place I really would like to go.


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## Artz (Sep 14, 2009)

If you have to cruise those waters perhaps several boats could get together Asa convoy Maybe the international coalitions that is working in the area could have couple destroyers as escorts.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

*There is a quick solution . . .*



gafferduck said:


> I don't think there is going to be a quick solution to somalia pirates .


. . . . . . . just nobody wants to make the call.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

From your sig.



Omatako said:


> *"I think it would be a good idea"*
> Response from Mahatma Ghandi when asked what he thought .


Me too!..


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

Stillraining said:


> From your sig.
> 
> Me too!..


Yeah, as if the Somalians understand anything about civilisation.

I heard on our news last night that the yacht was found drifting and the pirates have demanded $10m for the safe release of the couple ( they probably haven't tumbled to the difference between US$ and GB pounds).

I'm sure it will be less expensive to send them







just as an ecouragement to pull their heads in a little.


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## motorboater (Nov 9, 2009)

Anyone have reports of piracy near the western Solomon Islands?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*Man - this is really sad...*

(CNN) -- A British couple kidnapped from their yacht in October by pirates pleaded for their life in a video broadcast on Britain's Channel 4 Friday, warning that their captors were running out of patience and could kill them if no ransom is paid.
The Somali pirates have demanded $7 million for Paul and Rachel Chandler, taken from the 38-foot Lynn Rival just days after the couple set sail from the Seychelles islands for Tanzania.
"Our kidnappers are losing patience," said Paul Chandler, 59. "They are concerned that there has been no response at all to their demands for money."
As Chandler spoke during the two-minute video, he was surrounded by armed men pointing their weapons at him.
"We are also concerned that these people will lose patience and will not feed us -- and I have no doubt that they will not hesitate to kill us, perhaps within a week or so of now if there is no response," he said. "So, please somebody get in touch. Otherwise we just sleepwalk to a tragic ending."
It wasn't clear if the Chandlers were speaking on their own or delivering scripted statements.
So far, the British government has refused to pay the ransom demand or negotiate with the pirates, who are reportedly holding the Chandlers somewhere in Somalia.
"The government will not make substantive concessions for hostage takers, including the payments of ransom," according to the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office's official statement.
The government called the Chandler's innocent tourists and demanded their immediate release.
The video is the first time the Chandlers have been seen since their abduction, although they have previously been allowed to speak with Rachel Chandler's brother, Stephen Collett.
Both Chandlers said they were in good health, but feared their captors would not hesitate to kill them.
"We are very concerned about the future," said Rachel Chandler, 55. "Our captors are very impatient that nobody has been in touch about negotiations. We ask the government and the people of Britain and our families to do whatever you can to at least open negotiations with these people about money so that perhaps our lives can be bought back."
Pirates have been very active off the east coast of Africa in the past several years, operating out of lawless Somalia.
Two vessels were attacked the day after the Chandlers set sail. One of them, a cargo ship, was successfully boarded and seized off the Seychelles, while the other fought off its attackers near the Kenyan coast.
The first nine months of this year have seen more pirate attacks than all of 2008, the International Maritime Bureau, which monitors shipping crimes, reported October 21.


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## Superpickle (Oct 17, 2009)

Unfortunitly for this couple, is that People/Governments have Paid Ransoms befor.. 

When you PAY, you Condone and Condem others to suffer the same thing..

The Russians did it the Right way with the First Skyjacking of a Russian Air liner.
The KGB found a Close Relative of the Skyjackers leader and Sent her in 2 suit cases to the Skyjackers..
They ALL got the message and Skyjackers did NOT consider taking Russian aircraft as a viable concept after that.. 

So, the Brits, ie, MI5 or ? whatever, Find a Very close lovedone of the Kiddnappers leader, ie, Wife, Child, MOTHER. Cut them up into small peaces and send that as the Ransom payment.
You simply Cannot pussyfoot around with these Monkeys. No other Strat works... 
This is very sad for this couple, but it is a matter of Training these Monkeys the correct way.. They need to know What to Expect.. 

Yes, if it were me or a Friend, i probably would react differently. but then I would Not be seeing it Rationaly !


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

They wont kill them.....they are not that stupid


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## Superpickle (Oct 17, 2009)

Stillraining said:


> They wont kill them.....they are not that stupid


We are talking about Monkeys, Not People, of course they can KILL them.. 
This is not even a 4th world country.. thay have very little to lose, and as with the Hijackers thet were Shot to death by the US Sharpshooters, They were Teenagers.. Of course they ARE, Stupid enough to Kill, Anybody..

I say we need a Green Glass parking lot in that part of the world..  
NOBODY on the planet, will Miss them..


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

Story was on NBC news tonight (Sat). Showed them pleading with the British gov't. Pirates had machine guns and RPG's... now if only the SAS could figure out where they are and ......... well.... take care of things.


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## rikhall (Feb 7, 2008)

Superpickle said:


> We are talking about Monkeys, Not People


Unfortunately, Pickle, we *are *talking about people here. Alexander Solzhenitsyn in _*The Gulag Archipelago*_ said it well:

_It was only when I lay there on rotting prison straw that I sensed within myself the first stirrings of good. Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil._​
And when you are that far down with nothing at all, have a government that is corrupt beyond our worst nightmares, have no food, your family is starving, then you will do anything. When there is no work, no schools, no support, nothing, and your brother says, lets do this thing and we will have a million dollars, then it seems they do it. And when you have absolutely nothing, what is there to loose?

Do I have an answer, nope, sorry. But I will not be sailing in that area either.

Rik


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## theartfuldodger (Sep 4, 2006)

What is the point these people have not earned the right to live here on this earth and should be returned to dust from where they have came, a bomb is a lot cheaper then wasting all this time and effort for a group who don't get it. Action is needed now, if it were some suffering children the world would be up in arms and action would be taken.


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## johnnyandjebus (Sep 15, 2009)

> And when you are that far down with nothing at all, have a government that is corrupt beyond our worst nightmares, have no food, your family is starving, then you will do anything. When there is no work, no schools, no support, nothing, and your brother says, lets do this thing and we will have a million dollars, then it seems they do it. And when you have absolutely nothing, what is there to loose?
> 
> Do I have an answer, nope, sorry. But I will not be sailing in that area either.
> 
> Rik


Rik

Words worth remembering when dealing with a host of issues, Iraq, Afghanistan, Native communities here in the great white north etc.

and no, I have no answers either.

John

p.s bombing the **** out of the country will no doubt kill a lot of pirates, along with a lot of innocent people struggling to scrape out an existence. I can't quite get past the idea that the lives of innocent people in Somalia are worth just about as much as mine.
Bombing the country makes about as much sense to me as bombing my neighborhood because of the drug dealer living down the street...

And yes there will be people who will miss them, their children who quite possibly will grow up with one goal in mind. Throw a bomb back at the people who killed their family.


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## Superpickle (Oct 17, 2009)

theartfuldodger said:


> What is the point these people have not earned the right to live here on this earth and should be returned to dust from where they have came, a bomb is a lot cheaper then wasting all this time and effort for a group who don't get it. Action is needed now, if it were some suffering children the world would be up in arms and action would be taken.


Hell, if it were a Suffering CHICKEN, the Do-Gooders would be Marching on the Buckingham palace, Burning cars and Demanding a change.

but, its Only people..


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Superpickle said:


> Hell, if it were a Suffering CHICKEN, the Do-Gooders would be Marching on the Buckingham palace, Burning cars and Demanding a change.
> 
> but, its Only people..


Haven't you heard, people are the problem, we're the ones destroying the environment, that's what they say - few less people means less carbon footprint, or whatever.


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

well, it sure as hell isnt chickens stealing boats and kidnapping people off the somali coast. I dont think bombing the country will do anything at all to stop the problem. Blockading them and refusing to allow any boats at all to pass the 12 mile line would solve the problem. That would cause some hardship for fishermen but that is the price they would pay for harboring pirates. 

It wouldnt take long to fix things either. Start intercepting boats, take the crew off, sink them, and return the crew to shore with the message that the same thing will happen to any and all boats that put out of Somalia and go more than 12 miles offshore.

The US Navy was invented in the first place to deal with problems exactly like this one.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I don't think that returning the pirates to shore makes any sense... Shooting them is far more efficient and a much greater deterrent.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

With the greatest of respect I need to say that until you have lived in Africa, you will not understand the attitudes that prevail there and they're reasonably consistent all over the continent. It has been manifested in the Congo, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Rwanda, Uganda, the list is endless.

Africans have scant regard for human life. They kill at the slightest provocation and often without provocation. The *only *reason the British couple are still alive is because they represent a possible financial windfall to their captors. Once it becomes evident that the windfall is off the table, those folks are toast.

We should all be able to recall that this whole piracy thing in Somlaia started with the misguided belief that these were fishermen who were doing this as a protest for the multi-nationals fishing the Somalian waters to destruction. Well, by now we should all know that that postulation was a load of bollocks.

These people are and always have been the bottom of the food chain and they do not understand the concept of compassion - they will kill in a heartbeat when they have nothing left to gain from a situation. The reason that 95% of their nation is starving is because they only look after No.1. They don't give a toss about anybody else.

Ask Bob Geldof - he has 74 million reasons to support the above opinion.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

The navy ship that witnessed the kidnapping and later recovered the Chandlers yacht has just unloaded it in the UK.


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## Superpickle (Oct 17, 2009)

TQA said:


> The navy ship that witnessed the kidnapping and later recovered the Chandlers yacht has just unloaded it in the UK.


 Wait just a Flogging minute...

"A Navy ship Wittnessed the Kidnapping " ????

Whos, Navy ???

And , Those scum bags did this Right in FRONT of a NAVY ship      

:hothead :hothead :hothead :hothead :hothead :hothead :hothead :hothead


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

> The 100-strong crew of the RFA Wave Knight were under orders not to open fire as Paul and Rachel Chandler, of Tunbridge Wells, Kent, were taken from their yacht for fear that the couple could be executed by the pirates.
> 
> With the nearest warship, HMS Cumberland, two hours away, the lightly armed Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship, which was carrying a helicopter crew and 75 merchant seamen, was forced to play a high stakes waiting game, the Royal Navy said.


It is hard to believe but there was an armed UK ship within 50 feet of the kidnap. 
More details from the Telegraph newspaer.



> Details of the operation were kept secret by the Ministry of Defence until they were disclosed by an anonymous member of the crew who said that they had come within just 50ft of the couple at one point.
> 
> A carefully worded official account of the kidnap released last month said only that a Royal Navy vessel had found the couple's yacht empty, without disclosing that the couple were within sight at the time.
> 
> ...


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## theartfuldodger (Sep 4, 2006)

As I had said before what's the problem these people have no right to live on this earth, it will make for a safer world and others should take note same things could happen to them. Actions speak louder than words.


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## Superpickle (Oct 17, 2009)

Well, I see thay have set a Standard of Conduct.
Those or Any dirtbags Anywhere can just Grab people right under their Noses and whisk them off for a Ransom .. 

Wonderful. we arnt safe ANYWHERE now.. :hothead 

"OH, but you werent there and you dont know the situation"

So, What was the "Navy" ship doing as they Watched the Small Boat LOADED with Armed Pirates cruising for a Victom.

What the Hell were they there for.. 

Oh, I see, they were just Observing, not wanting to Interfere with Nature !

Thats like a Cop, standing on the street corner watching a Mugging take place and doing NOTHING.

And you wonder WHY i carry Weapons


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## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

I don't know the latest news regarding the pirates. This is my solution.

Send through an occasional yacht with a couple SAS or SEALS or Mossad or what have you. Interesting 'vacation' for some military types.


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## flyingwelshman (Aug 5, 2007)

Here's a vacation idea:

Go pirate-baiting!

I bet a lot of vodka was consumed in the development of this idea.


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## bellefonte (Jan 14, 2010)

flyingwelshman said:


> Here's a vacation idea:
> 
> Go pirate-baiting!


Wow, that's crazy. I wonder if they ever sailed any of those cruises. Killing a man is a horrible thing to have to do, regardless of the circumstances.

But seriously, you have Yemen to the north and the whole middle east thing ~ scary. Then to the south is Kenya and Tanz'. Why go up in there? Have th pirates been as far south as Madagascar?
I wonder if the trek from there to Oz is safe?


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## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

bellefonte said:


> Wow, that's crazy. I wonder if they ever sailed any of those cruises. Killing a man is a horrible thing to have to do, regardless of the circumstances.
> 
> But seriously, you have Yemen to the north and the whole middle east thing ~ scary. Then to the south is Kenya and Tanz'. Why go up in there? Have th pirates been as far south as Madagascar?
> I wonder if the trek from there to Oz is safe?


$5800/day and it doesn't include your weapons or ammo. Seems to be plenty of rich Russians these days.

Wonder how that program is working out?

Since the area is much closer to Russia, it makes some sense. We are currently a bit....overstretched.

I'd have thought the Mossad might have rose to the challenge though. Its almost in their backyard.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

THe problem with the boat bait issue, is once they know what boat is a bait boat, they may get smart and not attack said boat. One probably has 1-4 shots at a cruise on a given bait cruise ship. 

Marty


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## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

"Dead pirates don't talk."


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

adamsaquatics said:


> "Dead pirates don't talk."


That may be true, but todays pirates have radio's, support boats, so the news of a trap will get out. They will either show up with more force, or just not play into the trap.........

Then again, they may not have brains either!


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## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

blt2ski said:


> That may be true, but todays pirates have radio's, support boats, so the news of a trap will get out. They will either show up with more force, or just not play into the trap.........
> 
> Then again, they may not have brains either!


Sometimes I think we tend to misunderestimate (joke intended) the intellect of the Russians. M15 and M16 held their intelligence in pretty high regard during the height of the Cold War.

I'm pretty sure they can "play chess" with some rogue pirates who, in my estimation, probably can't read as a rule.

Have their been many reports of successful pirating since the Russians embarked on their program?


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## chrisj13 (Jan 3, 2010)

I'm liking the russian's idea! If I only had that kind of change laying around! What are the legal implications of carrying your own weaponry on board? Anybody explore this idea yet?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Did you mean MI-5 and MI-6. An M16 is a rifle last i checked, not an intelligence service in the UK.



adamsaquatics said:


> Sometimes I think we tend to misunderestimate (joke intended) the intellect of the Russians. M15 and M16 held their intelligence in pretty high regard during the height of the Cold War.
> 
> I'm pretty sure they can "play chess" with some rogue pirates who, in my estimation, probably can't read as a rule.
> 
> Have their been many reports of successful pirating since the Russians embarked on their program?


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## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

chrisj13 said:


> I'm liking the russian's idea! If I only had that kind of change laying around! What are the legal implications of carrying your own weaponry on board? Anybody explore this idea yet?


"Don't ask. Don't tell."


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## chrisj13 (Jan 3, 2010)

I like it adam, I like it. A nice mix of shotguns for the skinnies who get aboard, and long guns for stand off range should do nicely. Gotta be somewhere a guy can get ahold of an M203 round here!


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## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

I know nutzing!


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

"But defending the decision not to open fire, he said: "What you have got is a hostile situation with a bunch of pirates who are clearly unhappy, you have really got to be absolutely sure of what you are doing before you start trying to release hostages because you could end up with the hostages getting killed."

Oh god. Really? This almost, almost, leaves me speechless.

Here is what you do.

You blockade the boat containing the hostages and you send this message.

"Release the hostages and you will not be harmed. If you harm them we will sink your boat, killing you all. If you get into the water, we will kill you while you swim. 

Release them now. Release them unharmed and you will be on your way."

Now, when you say, "on your way" you mean to prison. If they fight back they fight back and they die.

Simply put, the message should be a firm and resolute, "you will not pass us. We will keep you here as long as necessary until you release the hostages. If any harm comes to them, anything at all you will all surely die."

Now, I'm not some armchair blowhard. I don't believe that bombing a country solves this problem. It kills the innocent, as backward and savage to each other though they may be. To me that is unacceptable.

I'm a former cop and a former mercenary. I've carried arms in urban environments and in foreign lands. While force should never be misused, there is a time and a place for it.

""By the time we found the yacht the Chandlers were not actually on board it, they were in the act of being transferred to another pirates vessel," he said.

"When they realised they were about to be bounced they took the Chandlers off the yacht onto a skiff which they had been towing.""

Then you stop the damn skiff with your naval vessel and make sure they understand that if the hostages are harmed in any way, you will surely end the life of everyone on board.


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## PTKAR42 (Feb 24, 2010)

yellowwducky said:


> 1600 miles of coast and you would need what, a destroyer ever 15 miles. 100 and change military vessels. Who is gonna send all those ships? Who even has that many.


Why not just use a few carriers and patrol the coast with aircraft instead of just relying on boats?


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## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

Somalians don't have a governing body that controls the fishery. The "pirates" everyone is talking about are most likely disillusioned fishermen that lost their livelihood when illegal foreign and false-flagged fishing vessels destroyed the ecology of the area. I would be pissed too. Piracy is wrong, and I wouldn't hesitate to kill a pirate if he approached my boat guns blazing. However, all of the people on this forum are so blind to the other sides view that it is disgusting. 

We just assume they are a bunch of illiterate assholes that deserve to be killed. Well wouldn't you resist if your livelihood was stolen from you? 

If you do, NATO labels you as an illiterate, uninformed, uncontrolled hooligan and kills you. 

Why don't Somalian ships maintain order in Somalian waters? Systematic oppression by larger world powers. The same kind that allows the illegal fishing, and disallows the piracy, which is a direct symptom of the illegal fishing. 

I hate pirates, simply on the basis that they put innocent lives in danger. I wouldn't be so quick to conclude that killing them is okay though. What needs to happen, is Somalia needs to become stable. The piracy is a symptom of a disease. You have to cure the disease, not mask the symptom.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

No, most of the Somalis that are raiding and attacking yachts and commercial shipping in the area are not fishermen, and never were. Most are opportunistic thieves that see a way to make money without really working. They're blood-thirsty thugs and criminals, and deserve to be exterminated.


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

TQA said:


> It is hard to believe but there was an armed UK ship within 50 feet of the kidnap.
> More details from the Telegraph newspaer.


Late to this thread, I know...

With perfect 20/20 hindsight, and not being there to know all the facts, I think the officers on that ship should be reprimanded for making a really bad decision. They should have sunk the small boat and then sorted out who to keep once everyone is treading water.

To claim that UK soldiers can't shoot straight (50 feet?!) in not a defense of their stupid inaction. They needed to take action.

....

(Hint of sarcasm here) Thinking about it some more, I'm surprised the pirates didn't take the UK crew hostage. After all, the pirates clearly had the upper hand, right? And they were only 50 feet away.

This is completely insane. Fire the lot of them.

Regards,
Brad


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

at the risk of repeating myself, this really shouldnt be so hard. I am sorry if some Somali fishermen lose their boats but that if that is the price of dealing with the situation then so be it.

Step 1 - Declare that any boat putting out from Somalia will be boarded and sunk if it passes 12 miles from shore.

Step 2 - follow through with a few boats, sinking them and sending their crews back on land to spread the word

Step 3 - Continue to patrol with planes and helicopters, sinking any boat that goes out too far.

This should take care of the problem within weeks. Will innocent people get harmed? Maybe but they will have been warned. Will fishermen suffer? Yes, but eventually they will be able to go out again when piracy is under control. Will piracy stop? Yes, and without the need to patrol "millions of square miles of ocean"


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## Architeuthis (Mar 3, 2008)

sck5 said:


> Step 1 - Declare that any boat putting out from Somalia will be boarded and sunk if it passes 12 miles from shore.
> 
> Step 2 - follow through with a few boats, sinking them and sending their crews back on land to spread the word
> 
> Step 3 - Continue to patrol with planes and helicopters, sinking any boat that goes out too far.


No doubt that would work but who would do this? Only the West. They are the only group stupid enough to spend that kind or money and effort without a direct payback.

So the West goes into Africa and enforces some basic laws. History has told us how that will play out. We would once again be called colonial racists and compensation would be demanded.

When it comes to Africa history ties our hands. They demanded their freedom, they took their freedom and now they want us back. We can't, we shouldn't have sent aid as we did or rather are, we really can't help like that.

Yes we would like to help but we have screwed things up so bad that we can't. The best we can do is stop sending aid money, start treating each country as the full member of the international community it is by trading and imposing sanctions as we would anywhere else in the world.

As for piracy, yes a tough hand should be dealt but not inside Africa or directed at Africa. Globally we should encourage ships to get armed escorts when needed and to be prepared, and most importantly, be allowed to defend themselves.

We need the international laws changed so we can defend ourselves. This isn't the 17th century, one armed ship is not going to show up in a harbour and take over a country.


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## ericread (Feb 23, 2009)

tager said:


> Why don't Somalian ships maintain order in Somalian waters?


The real reason is that there is no government in Somalia. There is no rule of law in Somalia. So if something is going to be done, it will be a world power exrcising "Nation Building" powers. And we have all seen the "sucess" in Nation Building...


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

"the West goes into Africa and enforces some basic laws"

beyond 12 miles it isnt Africa. Its the high seas. 

"We would once again be called colonial racists and compensation would be demanded."

Stopping pirates isnt racism. You would stop what we are doing because of some race baiting name calling jackass? Let them whine all they want. It isnt racist to stop pirates and they can demand compensation all they want - they arent ever going to get any.


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## Ulladh (Jul 12, 2007)

*Russian solution to piracy*

BBC News - Freed Somali pirates 'probably died' - Russian source

The Russian navy finding they had no legal basis for holding captured pirates let them go.

In the middle of the Indian ocean, in an inflatable boat, with no navigation instruments.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Well...lets hope getting very thirsty will give them time to ponder a different way to make a living


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

Ulladh said:


> BBC News - Freed Somali pirates 'probably died' - Russian source
> 
> The Russian navy finding they had no legal basis for holding captured pirates let them go.
> 
> In the middle of the Indian ocean, in an inflatable boat, with no navigation instruments.


As horrible as their deaths may have been, I just cannot bring myself to feel any sympathy for them.


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## kootenay (Sep 7, 2009)

Blackjenner I know how you feel but if you reject your humanity in dealing with crime you provide everyone else with the example that its ok to do anything you want to other people as long as you achieve your objectives. In essence you are providing the Pirates with justification for their acts not retribution. Justice would be arresting them, trying them and Punishing/executing them. Justice must not only be done but it must be seen to be done. Or it isnt justice. Its revenge.


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## ColoGuy (Jan 7, 2010)

Ulladh said:


> BBC News - Freed Somali pirates 'probably died' - Russian source
> 
> The Russian navy finding they had no legal basis for holding captured pirates let them go.
> 
> In the middle of the Indian ocean, in an inflatable boat, with no navigation instruments.


Sure was kind of the Russians to let those men go on their way.


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

kootenay said:


> Blackjenner I know how you feel but if you reject your humanity in dealing with crime you provide everyone else with the example that its ok to do anything you want to other people as long as you achieve your objectives. In essence you are providing the Pirates with justification for their acts not retribution. Justice would be arresting them, trying them and Punishing/executing them. Justice must not only be done but it must be seen to be done. Or it isnt justice. Its revenge.


I'm a former cop. I do believe in the rule of law. Please don't assume my statement as anything suggesting that I am rejecting my humanity. I am sure that, were they taken by Americans they would not have been set adrift.

The thing is they committed a lawless, if not a warlike, act, against the Russians for crying out loud. Do they think they are somehow incredibly lucky? They would be lucky to have Americans pick them up but, no, they jumped a Russian freighter.

While I would not wish this upon then, nor call it justice, I *still* have a hard time feeling sympathy for such violent criminals who have bad things happen to them.

And that is not me giving up one shred of my humanity.

So please don't extrapolate my balanced statement with somehow justifying *their* violence.

You see, my humanity remembers the *victims* too.

So, good points and I hope you understand mine.


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## kootenay (Sep 7, 2009)

blackjenner said:


> So, good points and I hope you understand mine.


I do thanks


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## blackjenner (Feb 5, 2010)

kootenay said:


> I do thanks


You are most welcome.


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## theartfuldodger (Sep 4, 2006)

I'm curious do we know what happened with the British couple did they finally get realeased, or are they still being held.


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## ThereBePirates (Oct 31, 2010)

They are still being held.


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## MooreVOLS (Jul 29, 2010)

What ever happened to "Speak softly and carry a big stick?"


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## MC1 (Jan 6, 2008)

Noticeably absent from the discussion in this thread are suggestions that target the organized nature of piracy in Somalia. This has been discussed in various media reports recently (here's one example from a quick search . . . allAfrica.com: Somalia: Pirates are Well-Organized, Resilient ). In addition to going after the "foot soldiers" (who are easily replaced by the organizers who could care less about them), civilized nations ought to be taking a keen interest in those actually making the big profits off these adventures. There's far fewer targets of interest and chopping off the head of this beast would make a dramatic difference. Follow the money!


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## trisstan87 (Aug 15, 2010)

I am waiting for a story to go like this: Pirates attempted to seize upon a sailing yacht today only to discover that once on board the yacht was manned by an armed crew of military commandos that proceeded to chum the waters with the pirates. Argh.


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

I still think Claymors would make good fenders with the appropriate backing board. Surprise!

Down


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

LOL I was thinking about this last night and thats what I came up with too Claymors  one on each side!


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## RonRelyea (Nov 18, 2009)

*Freed Today! Hurrah!*

article in the NY Times ...


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

Chandlers Freed - BBC Article.

Good to hear


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

Dear God I am glad to hear the Chandlers are free ! .

Stupid me I thought it was there boat  didn't think the Pirates took crew ! all along have been thinking thay have only taken all items onboard thay could and left the sailors adrift , but taken crew for ransom thats TOO Much !

OK time to think of innocent looking Greek Fire nozzle  ...

It's time for some Gov. or U.N. to do something about this !


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## Yofy (Aug 15, 2007)

Its amazingly great news, even as it comes on the heels of news of another kidnapping. But hearing that Paul and Rachel Chandler are free after more than one year in captivity, definetly made my day.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Great news... but the following really burns me;


> Earlier this year their captors threatened to kill the couple if their demands for $7m (£4.4m) were not met.
> 
> A payment of about $430,000 (£267,000) was made to the pirates in June, but did not result in the release of the Chandlers.
> 
> ...


The Russian Navy has the right idea of how to deal with these thugs.


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## ffiill (Jul 15, 2010)

Perhaps shouldnt put the cat amongst the pigeons BUT what I was suprised to note was the route that the Chandlers had been and were taking.
They had come from the Med.thru the Suez Canal and into the Gulf and were heading for east Africa when siezed.
I am really suprised that they had previosly managed to evade capture from Somali Pirates;Yemeni Pirates;Iranian Militia etc before entering the Indian Ocean.
Personally would coast west Africa down to Cape of Good Hope anytime rather than the Gulf and East Africa.


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## ffiill (Jul 15, 2010)

We now have a serious problem-any Yacht is now worth a minimum of £1 million to pirates!
Perhaps its time for some Q yachts.
During WW1 the British to combat u boat attacks sent out what appeared to be normal unarmed merchant vessels known as Q ships except they were not what they seemed.They were manned by Royal Naval personell and were armoured and armed to the teeth with guns hidden behind knock down panels;heavy caliber machine guns etc and personnel trained in using them.
Google Image Result for http://themaritimeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/hyberbasdfg.jpg
So imagine what appears to be a vunerable sailing yacht which is fitted with a powerful engine;armoured and carrying some nasty weaponry and shadowed by attack helicopters-mmm!


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

Sounds good ffiill ! Indian Ocean in general being off limits is too much !
That would leave many into harms way ..


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## MC1 (Jan 6, 2008)

Did any of you see the "My Trip to Al-Qaeda" special on HBO recently? It was interesting how one of Bin Laden's brother-in-laws (IIRC) somehow became a victim of a dreadful random crime in his sleep. It'd sure be a cryin' shame if that began to happen to the organizers profiteering off these "adventures". Just a guess - you'll notice this beginning to happen soon.


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## steel (Sep 1, 2010)

HDChopper said:


> It's time for some Gov. or U.N. to do something about this !


Please don't try to get the U.N. involved 

It wouldn't surprise me if the UN is actually funding the pirates.

The UN wants a reason to take over all the oceans and have a one world UN Navy or such.

People on Yachts just need to be armed like the pirates.

_The U.N.'s Maritime Safety Committee says members should "strongly discourage the carrying and use of firearms by seafarers for personal protection or for the protection of a ship." The concern is that bringing guns aboard ship will encourage violence._
See they're not trying to stop the problem at all. The UN is really anti gun and anti self defense.


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## BentSailor (Nov 10, 2010)

> It wouldn't surprise me if the UN is actually funding the pirates.


Yes. This has the sound of rationality to it...

Disagree with the UN, sure. Think the organisation shouldn't have been created (with willing assistance of the US), no problem. Think they are "funding" Somali pirates... that's a step into crazy town. Funding rebels is more a CIA thing (something that has facts to back it up too)


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

BentSailor said:


> Chandlers Freed - BBC Article.
> 
> Good to hear


I'm glad they're free, but...


> Details were not released by the Chandler family in the UK, who issued a statement saying: "The family believes it would be irresponsible to discuss any aspect of the release process as this could encourage others to capture private individuals and demand large ransom payments, something that we are sure none of us wants."


Oh yeah, _that's_ a hard one to guess...


> Earlier this year their captors threatened to kill the couple if their demands for $7m (£4.4m) were not met.
> 
> A payment of about $430,000 (£267,000) was made to the pirates in June, but did not result in the release of the Chandlers.






> The British government welcomed the news of the Chandlers' release, with Prime Minister David Cameron "unreservedly" condemning the captors.


Oh no! Not unreserved condemnation! That's... that's... why that's inhumane, that is!

Yeah, that'll discourage them, I'm sure. Certainly will be a lot more effective than, say, your Navy showing some chutzhpah.

As long as governments and individuals continue to reward these animals, and the bleeding heart west, in particular, remains more concerned about the pirates' conditions than that of their victims, this will continue.

There's a solution that will keep them w/in twelve miles or so from their coast and is a lot less costly than a blockade: Identify and *sink their damn motherships*. Oh, certainly give them the opportunity to surrender. Then imprison the crews and *sink the damn motherships*. If the crews fail to surrender in a timely manner, simply *sink the damn mothership*. Christ, this isn't that damn hard.

Jim


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