# naval architect



## PeterSailer (Mar 20, 2010)

Anybody know a naval architect that could design a custom steel sailboat?
I have been looking around a lot but only find a few. I'm thinking of a design similar to Tamata which was owned by Bernard Moitessier. Or maybe some one can tell me where I can get Tamata's plan?? 

Anyways, anybody know how much it would cost me to have a architect design a sailboat for me? Not construct it ,just the plan...

Pierre


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

I found one reference that Tamata was designed and built by "John and Ned Hutton of San Francisco".










I have absolutely no idea how much it would cost you to have a custom design drawn up but I find it hard to believer believe that amongst all the steel boat designs out there you cannot find something suitable 'off the shelf'. Van de Stadt are an obvious suggestion from me but also Dudley Dix, Graeme Radford (in Australia) god even Roberts and who is that Frenchman (or at least his name sounds French) who designs for semi home builders ?

To be frank about it and as much as I am a huge admirer of BM I would have no desire whatsoever to own either of his last two boats. There are far more user friendly steelers that are well worth considering.

I make no comment on the plan itself. You want to go there then on your own head be it. 

You should have a look at this Dix design .. not at all dissimilar to Tamata ...

Pratique 35 steel multi-chine cruiser "Salty Dog II"


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## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

Talk to Brent Swain, save a ton of bucks, go sailing! He'll even come to work for you for a couple of weeks pulling the hull and decks together ready for finish welding. Notice I said weeks, not months or years. I've actually sailed on one of 36 foot boats. I was really impressed with how it sailed.

Gary H. Lucas


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## PeterSailer (Mar 20, 2010)

Thanks guys, I find the Dix designs very interesting, they must be pretty rare cause I never saw one before. I really like the Hout Bay 30 and 33.

I tried to find info on Brent Swan designs or just a list of he's boats but I couldn't....Does he have a web site or something? Where do you go if you wan't to buy a plan\boat from him? I found a Brent Swain 36 on yacht world but can't find any info on the design.

Oh yeah, I don't want to build my own boat, But I might buy plans and get the Hull and deck build by a yard and finish the interior by my self... Or maybe buy a Hull and deck directly from a steel sailboat manufacturer...


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

PS,
I was also looking for Swain's web site ..

Origamiboats: The Art of Frameless Steel Boatbuilding - Home

He's the Origami man .. thought the name sounded familiar.

ps - the hull and deck are the easy bit ... it is the interior fitout that usually puts an end to these projects.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Peter,

I've said this in a number of threads before, my apologies if you've seen it all before but I really do beleve that sub 40' is too small for a steel boat. There is simply to much weight in the hull and deck themselves which results in less ballast in the keel where it really belongs. 

Van de Stadt 34
Steel 5.4t displacement, 1.8t ballast. 
Wood or Aluminium 4.5t displacement, 2.0t ballast
Now OK, some of that weight is in the keel outer casing so overall ballast is probably the same but even so you are dragging around an extra 2.0t. 

What can I say ? We love the old girl, we bought her DESPITE the fact she was steel not because and our next boat will almost certainly be frozen snot.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

You could also try Yves-Marie Tanton. Sailboat Designs of Yves-Marie Tanton He's been operating out of Newport, RI for a while now. A while back I saw drawings he'd done for a 65' steel sloop that looked really nice.


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## PeterSailer (Mar 20, 2010)

> I've said this in a number of threads before, my apologies if you've seen it all before but I really do beleve that sub 40' is too small for a steel boat. There is simply to much weight in the hull and deck themselves which results in less ballast in the keel where it really belongs.


That is why I'm fussy on the steel designs... I would like a steel sailboat with a really low free board, the cabin trunk should also end at the mast and a fairly deep keel so the CG wouldn't be to hight.

Now add to that a few criteria that I want on my next boat (Transom hung rudder that will accept a trim tab, Cutter rig, not too beamy and if not a full keel it needs a good V hull and a skeg to protect the rudder) and there is not much choice in the 33 to 36' range... thats why I was wondering who could make such a plan and for how much $$.

tdw,

What design is your boat? and how thick is the hull? 
Both Hout Bay 30 and 33 have 3mm hulls, is that the norm for small yacht?


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## PeterSailer (Mar 20, 2010)

One more question, Is it the norm in steel sailboat to have removable ballast? so you can do the maintenance in the keel? ( making sure once in a while that the keel isn't rusting out front the inside...)and if you have lead ballast, do you have to isolate it from the hull?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

The ballast is usually welded over after it is installed and isolated from the steel.

Look at aluminum. In the size range you are after a much better sailing boat.


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## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

I am surprised that no one has suggested Robert H Perry Yachts Designers Inc. Home Page . It would be worth speaking with Bob about your ideas.

FWIW...


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

Uh huh...


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## PeterSailer (Mar 20, 2010)

> The ballast is usually welded over after it is installed and isolated from the steel.


So the interior of the keel can't rust at all?

I don't really like aluminium, it's harder to work with and can have pretty serious problems with electrolysis...

I just send a e-mail to Robert H perry, but i'm not sure he designs steel sailboat. Anyways I asked him a few question and i'm waiting on a response.

Thanks guys


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

+1 on Bob Perry. Just about the best from everything I've heard.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

PaulK .. Yves Marie Tanton .. that was the fellow whose name I could not remember.

Hmmm .. probably not a great time to be picking BP's brain. I doubt however that he is going to be all that enthusiastic about designing a full keel 30' steeler. I guess you never know until you ask. BP is a great designer of cruising sailboats no doubt.

PeterS .. Van De Stadt 34. Van de Stadt Design - Van de Stadt 34

Low Freeboard. Tick, I can understand that and the VDS has it.

Coachroof stops forward of the mast but not that far forward. I don't understand your wish for a cabin trunk thats stops at mast, particularly when combined with low freeboard and a relatively small boat. Your forward cabin will be useless for anything but a sail bin.

VDS34 does not have a skeg, she is fin keeled as well. Personally I believe this need to have a skeg hung rudder is without foundation provided the rudder is well engineered. Lack of a skeg is no longer a deal breaker for me.

Now an aluminium vds34 would make a fine little cruiser. To my mind a bit small for long term cruising if you are over 50 or so, but for a young couple, nice. You could still buy secondhand for less money, less work and at the cost of only a few compromises.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

*Well...*

So the interior of the keel can't rust at all?

It's welded over so you can't see it rusting.

I don't really like aluminium, it's harder to work with and can have pretty serious problems with electrolysis...

But you like sandblasting and painting continuously to keep rust in check. Aluminum has its issues, but it IS lighter, if you're absolutely set on a metallic hull.

I just send a e-mail to Robert H perry, but i'm not sure he designs steel sailboat. Anyways I asked him a few question and i'm waiting on a response.

The sad loss of his son may slow his response.

Dudley Dix has an extensive array of designs in many materials. Woodenboat did a nice article some years ago on a 36' boat he built in his back yard (constant camber, I think). Many of his boats routinely race from Capetown to Rio, so they tend to be good-performing, and have to be well thought out structurally to take the conditions they encounter.

Thanks guys

Bon vent!


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Of all the materials available my first choice (for a one-off) would be aluminum. Electrolysis doesn't have to be a problem. The French love their aluminum boats, the most popular here being the Ovni. It doesn't even need paint above the waterline. When you compare a professionally built steel boat with a very expensive paint job (which it needs) to the same boat in aluminum unpainted the cost can be close. If you choose steel - which still can have electrolysis issues - it also has a paint/rust problem from the first chip of the finish until the day it sinks.

My second choice for a one-off would be modern wood/epoxy.

The problem with the dollars and cents of this is that there are so many good fiberglass boats available at good prices that unless you have the money and want something very unique it really makes no sense. It can if you are going to build your own. But even then you will spend much more than if you purchased a used fiberglass boat and spent whatever it takes to bring it to your liking. Much more.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Brian,
Coudln't agree more. When I said second hand for less money I should have said second hand plastic ... I honestly don't understand why anyone does anything else .. unless money is no object.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Do not quote me, I have not looked in awhile, but I believe Glen-L design in Ca has some steel sail and motor boats with in the 1000 or so plans they have. ALong with another NA's designs when he retired....Hanken? He also used to draw for GL before going on his own. Probably why GL was able to buy/get the plans.

marty


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

paulk said:


> So the interior of the keel can't rust at all?
> 
> It's welded over so you can't see it rusting.


The only time I've ever seen ballast put in a steel yacht, lead ingots were melted into the hollow keel casing with a oxy-torch - but I was too young to notice what went over the top. Concrete maybe?

For the record, Joe Adams has designed a few steel cruising yachts in his time - but he's over here, so I'm guessing that's no use to you.

Good luck!


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Hartley18 said:


> The only time I've ever seen ballast put in a steel yacht, lead ingots were melted into the hollow keel casing with a oxy-torch - but I was too young to notice what went over the top. Concrete maybe?
> 
> For the record, Joe Adams has designed a few steel cruising yachts in his time - but he's over here, so I'm guessing that's no use to you.
> 
> Good luck!


Cameron, G'day to you.

JA is long retired and as far as I am aware there is no one actively marketing his designs but his one time associate Graeme Radford is still active.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

PeterSailer said:


> So the interior of the keel can't rust at all?
> 
> I don't really like aluminium, it's harder to work with and can have pretty serious problems with electrolysis...
> 
> ...


Many commercial and custom yacht manufactures have a long history of fabricating with aluminum. Bob Perry has designed steel boats. A friend owned one, but much larger than you're thinking of having commissioned.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Ted Brewer has a lot of aluminum and steel boats in his portfolio.

Ted Brewer Yacht Design


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

mitiempo said:


> Ted Brewer has a lot of aluminum and steel boats in his portfolio.
> 
> Ted Brewer Yacht Design


a fine designer and a gentleman to boot ..


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