# The Affordable Perfect large Day Sailor--Why has it not been built?



## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

Here is my dream. To be able to purchase a 36 foot day sailor with a hull and cabin layout similar to the Sabre Spirit , but with out the fancy refinements, for no more than US $150,000 (sail away price) new. Why has this not been built? 

I know a lot of sailors (inlcuding myself) that sail or would sail with a boat designed for a use like the Sabre Spirit, unfortunatley the can't afford it and the new production boat manufacturer (i.e., Catalina, Jeaneau etc) have not produced this type of product.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

I am sure there are plenty of used late model $150,000 36 ft. boats you could easily convert to a day-sailor. Maybe Sabre is marketing to those folks who want those refinements. Although, I do not think they have sold many(especially lately)


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

treilley said:


> I am sure there are plenty of used late model $150,000 36 ft. boats you could easily convert to a day-sailor. Maybe Sabre is marketing to those folks who want those refinements. Although, I do not think they have sold many(especially lately)


With the right hull form?


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

Yamsailor said:


> With the right hull form?


What do you mean by "right hull form"?


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## nickmerc (Nov 2, 2008)

Have you looked at the e33 and alerion express 33? They are not 36' but they are purpose built daysailers. I am not sure on the pricing (probably too high new), but used ones may fall into your range.

Then again, you can buy a used 30-40' cruising boat and strip out all of the refinements and use it as a daysailer for much less than your budgetary number.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

*The Affordable Perfect large Day Sailor*

I think the question is one of those where the answer is "you can only have two of the three at any one time".


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Yamsailor

What hull form would you like to have?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm not so sure the demand is as speculated. One can day sail the newer deck salon coastal cruising models from various manufacturers without limit. A true day sailer is limited if you decide to coastal cruise.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

I'm guessing the answer is: no market
Look at Searay's market vs. Catalina's. The Catalina's built for the masses and still get trounced by Searay. Reduce the market even further with a narrow niche no frills 36 foot daysailer, and you've pretty well maneuvered your way out of making any sales.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

SeaRay?


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Warning : Shameless self promotion of our own product follows.....

Try a sail in Schock built Harbor 25. It is a very sea worthy vessel. It fits your price point. It is a exquisitely crafted day sailor with a dry and comfy cockpit able to handle heavy air and moderate seas with ease.


You could also try the Harbor 30, but it is a bit above your price point. 

What do you need in a daysailor ?


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I only read the thread to see what someone was define as large. perfect or affordable as they relate to a boat.

The funny thing is I already have 1 so am confused.


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## Arpegecap (Sep 19, 2011)

I second the Harbor 25 - outstanding day sailer! Fast, and designed for single handing. Looks great too.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Yamsailor said:


> Here is my dream. To be able to purchase a 36 foot day sailor with a hull and cabin layout similar to the Sabre Spirit , but with out the fancy refinements, for no more than US $150,000 (sail away price) new. Why has this not been built?
> 
> I know a lot of sailors (inlcuding myself) that sail or would sail with a boat designed for a use like the Sabre Spirit, unfortunatley the can't afford it and the new production boat manufacturer (i.e., Catalina, Jeaneau etc) have not produced this type of product.


Check out Lackeysailing.com. Tim Lackey built a big daysailor from an old Triton and ended up with a gorgeous boat for way less than anything remotely comparable you could buy new.

Someone like Lackey or Charliecobra could do the same thing to a neglected and dirt cheap 35'er for a pretty reasonable sum I think - certainly well within your $150K - depending on how fancy you wanted it of course.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Here's the link to Tim Lackey's daysailor project. 
The Daysailor | Building a Classic Daysailor


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

First, you're right, it's next to impossible to find a new 36 foot daysailer for less than $150k, let alone any new production 36 footer (cruiser, racer, etc.).

However, you might find a slightly used Summit Yachts md35

If you're willing to consider a bit smaller boat, look at the beautiful ~$100k CW Hood 32

Or how about the Alerion 33?


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## Armchairsailor2 (Jun 13, 2011)

Try this little screamer for $8k - yes, you heard me right. Add in shipping, full set of new laminates and everythign else you'd be after - I'd bet you'd still come in under budget, and whoop asses round the cans too.










Is this the right hull form?


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

WDSchock said:


> Warning : Shameless self promotion of our own product follows.....
> 
> Try a sail in Schock built Harbor 25. It is a very sea worthy vessel. It fits your price point. It is a exquisitely crafted day sailor with a dry and comfy cockpit able to handle heavy air and moderate seas with ease.
> 
> ...


The Harbor 25 is too small for what I am looking for. I need it for taking people out on 3-4 hour charter sails. So the boat has to be at least 35-36 feet with a small cabin to fit a head and small galley including an icebox or refrigerator.


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

Armchairsailor2 said:


> Try this little screamer for $8k - yes, you heard me right. Add in shipping, full set of new laminates and everythign else you'd be after - I'd bet you'd still come in under budget, and whoop asses round the cans too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


$8000 dollars!?!? Where is this located? Are you sure about the price?


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

SloopJonB said:


> Check out Lackeysailing.com. Tim Lackey built a big daysailor from an old Triton and ended up with a gorgeous boat for way less than anything remotely comparable you could buy new.
> 
> Someone like Lackey or Charliecobra could do the same thing to a neglected and dirt cheap 35'er for a pretty reasonable sum I think - certainly well within your $150K - depending on how fancy you wanted it of course.


Now this is a very interesting concept. I like this idea.


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## bandaidmd (Jul 28, 2011)

I'm still trying to figure out how a Searay got lumped in/compared to, a Catalina.....


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## bandaidmd (Jul 28, 2011)

Yamsailor said:


> The Harbor 25 is too small for what I am looking for. I need it for taking people out on 3-4 hour charter sails. So the boat has to be at least 35-36 feet with a small cabin to fit a head and small galley including an icebox or refrigerator.


Just to contribute to the discussion,

Since your exploring this as a business did you consider that your would be passengers might be put off by "your" version of what a ideal boat should be compared to a nicely fitted coastal cruiser. Example; hour 2 of your out and back 4 hour cruise when the thunderstorm starts pelting your passengers and thier kid and there's no comfy spot to get out of the weather.


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## Armchairsailor2 (Jun 13, 2011)

Yamsailor said:


> $8000 dollars!?!? Where is this located? Are you sure about the price?


Yep, well, give or take a little - it was advertised for £5000 in SE England somewhere. It's a strip built thing, early 90's vintage possibly - google Corby 35 and you should find it. It was advertised on Ebay (uk) a few months ago. Even if it required a total refit, it would still appear to be a bargain.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

Hey, BandAid...re: Searay

I was pointing out how paltry the sailboat market is as compared to the powerboat market. If you take an already paltry market, and further refine it, you eventually, reach a point where sales reach the zero mark. 

There's simply not a large enough group of people interested in the concept of a 36' daysailor with a spartan interior.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

That Triton Project is frickin BEAUTIFUL!


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

bandaidmd said:


> Just to contribute to the discussion,
> 
> Since your exploring this as a business did you consider that your would be passengers might be put off by "your" version of what a ideal boat should be compared to a nicely fitted coastal cruiser. Example; hour 2 of your out and back 4 hour cruise when the thunderstorm starts pelting your passengers and thier kid and there's no comfy spot to get out of the weather.


Without a doubt. At the same time I don't need all the systems design as a coastal cruiser.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

LandLocked66c said:


> That Triton Project is frickin BEAUTIFUL!


Ain't it though. Imagine something along those lines done to, say, an abandoned Pearson/Alberg 35. If you cut away the cabintop and rebuilt it along the philosophy of the Spirit of Tradition boats or the Alerions, you'd really have something special. If you found a derelict that had a useable rig you'd have a really cheap start and, even if having a pro do it, you could keep the costs pretty reasonable. Think how easy it would be for them to put a simple, new interior in it with that big hole in the deck.


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

SloopJonB said:


> Ain't it though. Imagine something along those lines done to, say, an abandoned Pearson/Alberg 35. If you cut away the cabintop and rebuilt it along the philosophy of the Spirit of Tradition boats or the Alerions, you'd really have something special. If you found a derelict that had a useable rig you'd have a really cheap start and, even if having a pro do it, you could keep the costs pretty reasonable. Think how easy it would be for them to put a simple, new interior in it with that big hole in the deck.


ok--Now I am finding thiis concept really interesting. What do you think it would cost to do something like this?


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Reminds me of a Charlie Cobra idea with SeaSmoke. That would be cool too!

Start with a 40' Beauty, heck you can pick it up for $3k!


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

LandLocked66c said:


> Reminds me of a Charlie Cobra idea with SeaSmoke. That would be cool too!
> 
> Start with a 40' Beauty, heck you can pick it up for $3k!


Yeah I would go with a fiberglass hull. Wood is way too much work.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Yamsailor said:


> Yeah I would go with a fiberglass hull. Wood is way too much work.


But, this boat was built for a celebrity! James Arness (sp)

That could go a long way when trolling for potential customers... With most of the deck gone you are ridding yourself of alot of work. 

Yah, GRP is less work for sure though!


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Yamsailor said:


> ok--Now I am finding thiis concept really interesting. What do you think it would cost to do something like this?


If I was to do it? Not much cash but 10 or 15 years. 

I's give Tim Lackey a call and run it past him for a ballpark figure.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

I just remembered that Lackey has a Allied Seabreeze that has already been gutted. It had an engine fire and Tim bought it cheap to rebuild for himself. He gutted it and cut out the burned cockpit fiberglass before losing steam and moving on to a Fisher motorsailer. All the info about it is on his website.

It would work well for the idea under discussion and I bet he'd sell it cheap, particularly if you had him do the work. 

Might have to wait a while though - he seems to have about a 1 year lineup already.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

SloopJonB said:


> I's give Tim Lackey a call and run it past him for a ballpark figure.


I seem to recall that Tim sold his Daysailor for around 90K. I first came across Tim's website when he was in the midst of that project, and kept up with his progress weekly. Absolutely fascinating. I think it took Tim quite a bit of time to do that rebuild, and I think that was back before his business really took off. If you look at his website now, he seems to have projects booked out through next year, along with rebuilding his own boat. If the idea of a rebuild intrigues you, then by all means give Tim a call. Your project wouldn't necessarily involve as much work as the Daysailor, which included demolition of the original deck and coachroof, building a new deck and coachroof, and a demolition and rebuild of the interior from scratch.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

SloopJonB said:


> I just remembered that Lackey has a Allied Seabreeze that has already been gutted. It had an engine fire and Tim bought it cheap to rebuild for himself. He gutted it and cut out the burned cockpit fiberglass before losing steam and moving on to a Fisher motorsailer. All the info about it is on his website.
> 
> It would work well for the idea under discussion and I bet he'd sell it cheap, particularly if you had him do the work.
> 
> Might have to wait a while though - he seems to have about a 1 year lineup already.


Tim no longer owns that Seabreeze. He was advertising on his site that he was offering it for sale, or in the alternative, giving it to someone at a greatly reduced price (it might have even been for free) so long as the new owner used Tim for the rebuild. Someone took him up on the offer awhile ago; Tim never specified which offer was accepted, but the Seabreeze is still listed on his site in the "upcoming projects" section, so I always assumed it was the latter choice.


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## Arpegecap (Sep 19, 2011)

FWIW, the Harbor 25 (more like 26 feet actually) has a huge cockpit, a small cabin room for four easily.with sink, icebox and a fully enclosed head. Still, I think a stock production boat with a large cockpit would do the job for a charter operation - a Catalina 380 for example. Not sure why it needs to be a day sailer.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

mstern said:


> Tim no longer owns that Seabreeze. He was advertising on his site that he was offering it for sale, or in the alternative, giving it to someone at a greatly reduced price (it might have even been for free) so long as the new owner used Tim for the rebuild. Someone took him up on the offer awhile ago; Tim never specified which offer was accepted, but the Seabreeze is still listed on his site in the "upcoming projects" section, so I always assumed it was the latter choice.


Oh well.... There are lots of neglected and /or abandoned boats out there, going cheap. I'm fairly sure there are lots of skilled small boatyards like Charliecobra's as well. I doubt it is Fat City for them right now so it might be a good time to do an unusual project like this.

Tim did well on that daysailer project - $90K  Considering he went back to a ballasted bare hull, it was a brand new, custom boat, built to a high standard so that price is cheap IMHO.


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## RXBOT (Sep 7, 2007)

If the boat is to be used commercially would not the boat and crew have to be coast guard certified for X number of passengers with all fire supression and related systems. Just because you have a nice boat does not make it legal to take out paying customers.


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

RXBOT said:


> If the boat is to be used commercially would not the boat and crew have to be coast guard certified for X number of passengers with all fire supression and related systems. Just because you have a nice boat does not make it legal to take out paying customers.


The boat does not have to be inspected if I take no more than six passengers for hire.


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

Arpegecap said:


> FWIW, the Harbor 25 (more like 26 feet actually) has a huge cockpit, a small cabin room for four easily.with sink, icebox and a fully enclosed head. Still, I think a stock production boat with a large cockpit would do the job for a charter operation - a Catalina 380 for example. Not sure why it needs to be a day sailer.


Catalina 380/387 is an option I am willing to consider.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

Yamsailor said:


> The Harbor 25 is too small for what I am looking for. I need it for taking people out on 3-4 hour charter sails. So the boat has to be at least 35-36 feet with a small cabin to fit a head and small galley including an icebox or refrigerator.


that seems to describe most 35-36' crusing boats. to me the best boat to use for 3-4 hour charter sails is the one with the most comfort. not all people will want to be out in the wind for that long. and even more important to most women would be the size of the facilities. I don't know how much chartering you have done but the boat you are looking for is more what a sailor would like to sail then someone who pays to charter a boat.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Yam,


The Harbor 25 seems to fit your Mission requirements perfectly; 4-5 adults for 3-5 Hours daysail with private Head (sliding door) and Big insulated built in ICE Box.

The cockpit can fit 6-7 adults, but 4-5 is comfy and still spacious for lounging. 

You should check out the Harbor 25 in situ before making a hasty conclusion.


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi WDSchock,

I have seen the Harbor 25. While I think it is a very nice boat it just does not fit my needs. I am going to be going out on the ocean as well as the bay.


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

overbored said:


> that seems to describe most 35-36' crusing boats. to me the best boat to use for 3-4 hour charter sails is the one with the most comfort. not all people will want to be out in the wind for that long. and even more important to most women would be the size of the facilities. I don't know how much chartering you have done but the boat you are looking for is more what a sailor would like to sail then someone who pays to charter a boat.


Yes--I think I have come to the same conclusion.

I am examining the following boats:

Jeanneau SO35
Jeanneau SO37
Jeanneau 36i
Catalina 350
Catalina 36MKII
Catalina 380/387
Sabre 362

and one Catamaran--MaineCat 30

I would consider the MaineCat 30 if I can get it inspected for 10-passenger day sails

Bluenose yachts is building a new S&S-designed 30 foot daysailor for $150,000. It has a large cockpit and looks comfortable down below. I would like to see one finished as it looks gorgeous and although smaller than I would like, may meet my needs. I am not ready to buy one until I see a finished one. http://www.bluenoseyachts.com/S_&_S_30.html

Anybody have any other suggestions?

Thanks


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## gjw0920 (Jun 12, 2000)

*Large Day sailor*

Funny, concept insofar as some might contend this is an oxymoron.

However, the BEST fit we know of is the E33.

She has an 18' cockpit. For sure the largest cockpit of any boat in this class.

E 33 YACHTS

Contact Glenn Walters for more information 401 855 4355.

Built in Maine, excellent quality. Fast and easy to single handle


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

gjw0920 said:


> Funny, concept insofar as some might contend this is an oxymoron.
> 
> However, the BEST fit we know of is the E33.
> 
> ...


I thought the E33 costs around 200K. Way over my budget.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Yam,

Understand your concerns.

The Harbor 25 is a seaworthy craft, supremely capable of doing near shore ocean sailing. It has sailed successfully in near shore distance races numerous times.

Here is a illuminating article by an experienced passage maker about his experiences: Harbor 25 Sea Trials - W. D. Schock Corporation - Performance Sail Boats

Here is an excerpt regarding sailing in 3-4 ft seas in 20+knts:

_The boat had a balanced helm, the spade rudder worked well and only stalled or dragged on a few occasions. While the boat was fully loaded, it never felt overpowered. In fact, the boat handled the seas much better than I had anticipated.

The hull was stiff and there was no oil canning. The rig handled the loads well with no pumping. The mast rocked on the hinged mast step and it took a few waves to get used to this but the boat was really solid and dry. The boat never pounded - it just found its' groove and sailed up and through the waves. When I was able to get on to a close reach, the boat dug in and sailed as fast as its 21 ft of waterline could muster.

In summary, the boat handled the delivery very well and I was extremely impressed. *I have done this trip hundreds of times in 30 ft sloops, J-120s and one-design 48s. All got wetter and were scarier rides.*
_

There are a number of H25s sailing in the Annapolis area. Don't dismiss it out of hand.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

The Harbor 25 is a bit tight for a skipper and 6 paying guests though I think.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Agreed - the cockpit fits '8' people but realistic for comfy lounging is 6 adults. 

The cockpit of the Harbor 25 is an honest 109" of useable length. Not quite the enormous cockpit of a Tartan 10, but plenty big compared to it's peers.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

You lose a LOT of credibility when as a writer you start comparing the stability and comfort of ANY 25' boat to a J120 (40' boat )


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

T,

Look - I'm nit going to get into a ping pong match on the subject. 

The sea trial article was written by a very experienced passage making sailor with 10s of thousands of ocean miles under his belt. He wasn't paid or renumerated in any way. The only changes made were punctuation and spelling. 

If you read the entire article you will see that he was very skeptical about the seaworthiness of the boat, before he sailed it.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Passage-making downwind under spinnaker - with only 2 people on a 40 footer - is now so easy, you'll have fun doing it every time you go sailing. Exceptional performance and construction earned J/120 the distinction of being CRUISING WORLD magazine's OVERALL BOAT OF THE YEAR and the BEST VALUE in a full-sized cruising boat.


It still disagrees with anything ever written about the J120


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

If your going to post add copy i will counter with other add copy


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

How did this pissing contest get started again?


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

n summary, the boat handled the delivery very well and I was extremely impressed. I have done this trip hundreds of times in 30 ft sloops, J-120s and one-design 48s. All got wetter and were scarier rides.

You really think i need to read the copy you cut and pasted pasted from 

I sure your boat is much more user friendly and dry compared to a J24 or J80 BUT at some point it would not be the case and i would have to say the J120 would be one


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Yamsailor said:


> Bluenose yachts is building a new S&S-designed 30 foot daysailor for $150,000. It has a large cockpit and looks comfortable down below. I would like to see one finished as it looks gorgeous and although smaller than I would like, may meet my needs. I am not ready to buy one until I see a finished one. Sparkman and Stephens 30 BABE
> 
> Anybody have any other suggestions? Thanks


Yes - it should have longer overhangs.  What a gorgeous boat.


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

I am examining the following boats:

Jeanneau SO35
Jeanneau SO37
Jeanneau 36i
Catalina 350
Catalina 36MKII
Catalina 380/387
Sabre 362

and one Catamaran--MaineCat 30

I would consider the MaineCat 30 if I can get it inspected for 10-passenger day sails

Does anyone have any other suggestions other than the above while keeping the cost to less than $150000 (New or Used)?

Thanks for any suggestions.


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## gjw0920 (Jun 12, 2000)

*Nice daysailors that are more affordable.*

I am having a hard time following the complete thread to this posting, so I apologize if this is redundant, however, we have sold the E33 for this type of use even if it is over the 150k mentioned.

E 33 YACHTS

and we are now offering the S&S 30

Sparkman and Stephens 30 BABE

Of course the Alerion 28 is viable as is the Schock 30.

However, as every yacht designer knows; every design is a compromise.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

So you are about to embark on an adventure of sailing and having others pay you for it. First thought is how to get the guests on board. Are they adventurous sailors? Is your boat appealing to them? Never sailed before?? Will it tip? Where do we sit? What number of passengers is your break even? Even after all this, the hardest part is the advertizing brochures, commissions,web page,on and on. It's great fun if you like to sail sort of like you liked sex so you changed occupations I've done it for a long while now (18 passengers) and cannot imagine working for a paycheck.But I often wonder what these jerks are doing in my home. Fortunately my partner is a people person so I can be the gruff captain. If you look around the net you will find the most popular timing is a threehoursail. If you consider looking for a turnkey opp, find me looking for new horizons.


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

Capt Len said:


> So you are about to embark on an adventure of sailing and having others pay you for it. First thought is how to get the guests on board. Are they adventurous sailors? Is your boat appealing to them? Never sailed before?? Will it tip? Where do we sit? What number of passengers is your break even? Even after all this, the hardest part is the advertizing brochures, commissions,web page,on and on. It's great fun if you like to sail sort of like you liked sex so you changed occupations I've done it for a long while now (18 passengers) and cannot imagine working for a paycheck.But I often wonder what these jerks are doing in my home. Fortunately my partner is a people person so I can be the gruff captain. If you look around the net you will find the most popular timing is a threehoursail. If you consider looking for a turnkey opp, find me looking for new horizons.


Hi Len,

You make some very good points. Fortunately I am working with someone who owned his own media/advertising/marketing firm. He will be taking care of most of that for me. Three hour sails are the way I want to go for now. Do you have any recommendations for a good 36 foot boat to use?


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Well I'm a tad biased when it comes to good looking boats.If you travel to away places you usually find a Spray operating as commercial sailing adventure by a couple. 36 to 44ft. Smaller, you can't bring in enough revenue .bigger .you have to and crew too.In Canada ,CSI is restrictive, anally so .Stateside much less so. Here ,watertight bulkheads and doors,Covered life raft,Fire and flood equipment up the ying yang,captain and crew cert,annual inspections and every 4 yrs all your intimate bits on the bench for a good look


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

Go with the Mainecat. No heeling, no squealing, lots of room for lounging.
Or save 100K and just buy an old Formosa, an eyepatch and some cheesy shirts and offer a 3 hour Capt Ron experience.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

3 hour booze cruise with captain Ron and a busty hostess or two. Now that sounds like what most lubbers are really looking. Hey, where's that cheap Formosa?


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Did you hear about the charter boat skipper who won the big lottery? When ask what he was going to do with all that money, he replied "well, I'll just keep chartering 'till it"s all gone!


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

Capt Len said:


> Did you hear about the charter boat skipper who won the big lottery? When ask what he was going to do with all that money, he replied "well, I'll just keep chartering 'till it"s all gone!


LOL--so you are saying "Don't do it?"


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

It's supposed to be funny. I've been sailing with passengers for 30 years or so and I might sound a bit jaded. Between spring and fall cruises and 3 months at the Thai beach hut it leaves me the summer months to make the donuts.See my page for a three hour sail. Most tourists have no idea what it's about but want a dream or nice picnic at sea, or.. I offer a sail for up to 18 (not a booze cruise) In spite of comments made here by Captain Ron fans , many guests say it was the highlight of their holiday. So say Fromers and Edmonton Sun.and I'm proud of that. Fixed costs like moorage, insurance, licenses,maintenance ,advertizing ,etc go on while sitting at the dock not making the $1000 because it's cloudy can be annoying. And what's your time worth?If on a good day you make 300 or so and two days with two guests and two days scratched ,Hope the week end is better, because you have been on call all week. It is like fishing, or strolling a street corner . Personally I wouldn't take a paycheck job to replace my life style again and Ive had some pretty decent positions.(In my book) You should remember that I built my boat and this is who I am. It's not for everyone, for sure. Run the numbers, have a business plan,don't sell the farm yet as you make a decision. Or do like I do when faced with a BIG choice, Flip a coin.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

*The Affordable Perfect large Day Sailor*..... you can not find it because there is not any significant market for it. If it is a day sailor it will be a coastal boat so it does not need to be big since a 22/24ft boat can already sail with 4 and a 30ft with 6, so why bigger? Only sail schools will be interested in more places but they use open boats for day sailing and that increases the number the places on the boat.

The market that you are pointing (charter day sailing) is dominated by day sailing catamarans that can offer a lot more places for the length and provide sailing without heeling. Most of those boats are specifically built and they can be quite big. They are not expensive neither luxurious.

The other market for day sailing regarding over 30ft monohulls is a luxury market that has to do with possessing a top sailing and beutifull boat just to sail around. Something to be proud of and to cherish. If we were talking about motorcycles we would be talking about café racers : You don' need one to go to the café, but certainly you will go with style in one

Style doesn't come cheap neither really beautiful things

Regards

Paulo


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Capt Len said:


> It's supposed to be funny. I've been sailing with passengers for 30 years or so and I might sound a bit jaded. Between spring and fall cruises and 3 months at the Thai beach hut it leaves me the summer months to make the donuts.See my page for a three hour sail. Most tourists have no idea what it's about but want a dream or nice picnic at sea, or.. I offer a sail for up to 18 (not a booze cruise) In spite of comments made here by Captain Ron fans , many guests say it was the highlight of their holiday. So say Fromers and Edmonton Sun.and I'm proud of that. Fixed costs like moorage, insurance, licenses,maintenance ,advertizing ,etc go on while sitting at the dock not making the $1000 because it's cloudy can be annoying. And what's your time worth?If on a good day you make 300 or so and two days with two guests and two days scratched ,Hope the week end is better, because you have been on call all week. It is like fishing, or strolling a street corner . Personally I wouldn't take a paycheck job to replace my life style again and Ive had some pretty decent positions.(In my book) You should remember that I built my boat and this is who I am. It's not for everyone, for sure. Run the numbers, have a business plan,don't sell the farm yet as you make a decision. Or do like I do when faced with a BIG choice, Flip a coin.


Len the thing that stood out for me most of all in your post was that there was not a single mention of the word WORK. 

Good on ye'.


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## Yamsailor (Jun 7, 2006)

Capt Len said:


> It's supposed to be funny. I've been sailing with passengers for 30 years or so and I might sound a bit jaded. Between spring and fall cruises and 3 months at the Thai beach hut it leaves me the summer months to make the donuts.See my page for a three hour sail. Most tourists have no idea what it's about but want a dream or nice picnic at sea, or.. I offer a sail for up to 18 (not a booze cruise) In spite of comments made here by Captain Ron fans , many guests say it was the highlight of their holiday. So say Fromers and Edmonton Sun.and I'm proud of that. Fixed costs like moorage, insurance, licenses,maintenance ,advertizing ,etc go on while sitting at the dock not making the $1000 because it's cloudy can be annoying. And what's your time worth?If on a good day you make 300 or so and two days with two guests and two days scratched ,Hope the week end is better, because you have been on call all week. It is like fishing, or strolling a street corner . Personally I wouldn't take a paycheck job to replace my life style again and Ive had some pretty decent positions.(In my book) You should remember that I built my boat and this is who I am. It's not for everyone, for sure. Run the numbers, have a business plan,don't sell the farm yet as you make a decision. Or do like I do when faced with a BIG choice, Flip a coin.


Cool. Well I was never planning on making it my source of income. IT is more of a side-business during the warmer months.


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