# Sail boat depriciation Sail boat depreciation schedule?



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Does anyone here have a published depreciation schedule over the life of a sailboat? I am interested in how much a new boat depreciate 1 to 2 years, up to 5 , 10, 15, 20, 30 years etc. TIA.

LS


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

20% initially and then a little more each year until it levels off. In the mean time you sink mucho dinero into what amounts to a "wasting asset."


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I think it's safe to say there is an immediate depreciation on the purchase of a new boat - much like in automobiles. The 20% figure could well be correct. But beyond that there are too many variables to come up with an accurate generalized depreciation schedule. 

The reputation of the manufacturer, the condition of the vessel, and to a small extent the amount of extra equipment installed will have a huge influence on the market value of any particular vessel. Even regionally some boats command higher prices than elsewhere.

Many boats have been sold years old for more than they cost initially due to the effects of inflation and local market forces.

Selling prices are one thing, ROI another altogether. As mentioned above, we all throw plenty of money into our boats over the years and it's certainly not realistic to expect much of that back. 

We were fortunate, in our view, to have owned a couple of different boats for more than a decade, and later sold the boats for nearly identical prices to what we paid. Did we get our money back? No way, not when you factor the improvement and maintenance costs along with operating costs. Do we feel we got our money's worth? You bet we did.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Rockdag, maybe you've never heard the famous quote about what a boat costs? "If you have to ask, you can't afford it."

I've never seen hard numbers for boat depreciation aside from what the IRS would allow as with any motor vehicle or asset in a business. If you want hard numbers, go to a large library, get the past 20 years worth of the BUC book (or buy the numbers from BUC) and you can actually measure the depreciation on boats over the past 20 years. Remember to find out the market interest rates for your loss of capitol and other factors in the same time. Remember that when Congress passed a 10% luxury tax on new boats...the prices of old ones soared as the market tightened up. And when oil prices rise, fiberglass resins rise, and used boat prices rise again.

The only other guide I've seen is if you buy the used boat review books from Practical Sailor. They show market values (new and resale) for the boats they cover, not adjusted complete depreciations. But they also show a lot of variation from model to model, and you'll have to accomodate that as well.

Depreciation?<G> You're gonna have to do the homework.<G> It would be nice if you shared it with us all after you had some numbers.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

HaHah HS, although I was a FOB, I did hear that famous phase  

You interpreted my question way too deep. I am just a simple guy thinking to get another boat with the least amount of money. For the last few months of lurking around, I found/felt most sailboat hold their value pretty good. 

Unlike buying an auto you have Blue Book value, MSRP and invoice prices to go with. But for a newbie, it is hard to objectively evaluate or compare between sailboats. That is why I tried to seek some info to support the base value of a boat and plus percentage of the upgrade that the owner spent. By doing this way, I hope to separate/minimize the emotional urge to buy syndrome. I hope this makes sense.

Many thanks


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I never could see the sense in paying up for a new boat. They add useless things like commisioning costs, etc. As long as the hull, deck, and rigging are sound you can always tinker with the other stuff. I repowered my S2 shortly after I bought it used and still have not even come close to the cost of a new sailboat. Sailboats have not changed that much in over 30 years and good initial fiberglass work has an unlimited life. It's plastic. New boats add a lot of useless equipment. They are trying to be condos and not boats. Good luck.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

How did anyone pay for the boat? 

Cash, boat loan with x% down, lease with writeoff?


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## catamount (Sep 8, 2002)

cash

Well, actually it was a personal check for the escrow deposit, and a bank check for the balance due on closing. I asked, but the broker's office wasn't set up to take my credit card for the transaction ;-)


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"I asked, but the broker's office wasn't set up to take my credit card for the transaction ;-) "

Yeah, just think of the Frequent Flyer Miles.<G>

"Hello, Amex? Yeah, I'm gonna need you to bump my credit limit tomorrow..."


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

True story, last year a guy up bought a new 35s5 on his AA/Advantage citibank card. 
****
Eddie Belfour at the time was a Dallas star, and saw a 44 ft carver or cruiser, (i can't remember) the boat show, shows up at the marina on tuesday asks the price of the tub and drags out a papersack, peels of the number of 100's that was asked. 
the boat sat at grandpappys for over 2 yrs, and one day, a big azz truck shows up to haul it off to canada.


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## Headingsouth (Jun 26, 2006)

The price of used boats is based more on supply and demand than any set rate of depreciation and will vary from builder to builder, by location and by what the market considers hot at the time. Although you may not lose as much from depreciation on an older boat, you will certainly spend more on upkeep and maintenance than on a newer boat. And, yes, you can call Amex and charge a new boat. Only problem is that the bill will be waiting for you in 30 days... Go new, enjoy your free month and let AMEX deal with the depreciation once they find you.


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## soul searcher (Jun 28, 2006)

do you get double the manufacturers warranty that way?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi RockDawg,
The manufacturer will have a lot to do with the depreciation schedule for a sailboat. I sail a 1988 Island Packet that is worth about $10k more than the original 1988 asking price. True, you have to adjust for inflation, but I could sell my boat for just about what I bought it for five years ago.

In my opinion, your best deal is to buy a 3 year old sailboat. Someone else took the big hit on depreciation, and you get a sailboat in good shape with most of the bugs worked out.

My .02 worth of opinion. Hope this helps.

Jeff

www.smartcaptain.com


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

soul seacher-
ROFL. It would be worth paying the dealer the extra 2% that Amex charges them, so they'd allow the purchase that way.<G> But IIRC most of the extended warranty offers now exclude anything to do with motor vehicles in whole or part.
Still...It might be worth the residuals from being put in the commercials. "Here at Hinckley, we don't take American Express. VISA..." <G>


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

soul searcher said:


> do you get double the manufacturers warranty that way?


  ....... I think we also entitle for the buyer protection plan. AMX will replace the boat if she is stolen and loss at sea.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

SmartCaptain said:


> In my opinion, your best deal is to buy a 3 year old sailboat. Someone else took the big hit on depreciation, and you get a sailboat in good shape with most of the bugs worked out.
> www.smartcaptain.com


It makes sense, but how do you know how much the original owner paid for the boat, and what percentage of rough depreciation would you take off? Thanks.


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## captnnero (Jul 19, 2006)

*value of money*



SmartCaptain said:


> Hi RockDawg,
> The manufacturer will have a lot to do with the depreciation schedule for a sailboat. I sail a 1988 Island Packet that is worth about $10k more than the original 1988 asking price. True, you have to adjust for inflation, but I could sell my boat for just about what I bought it for five years ago.


Let's look at that inflation thing and the current value of money. A dollar in 1988 bought about 70% more than it buys today, which makes that 10K number seem trivial on a valuable package like the Packet. In the last five years it's about 15% inflation. Then toss in another 10% cost for brokerage when you go to sell it as most boats are brokered. So the point I'm making is that the deflation of the dollar is the silent depreciator.

The real test is to compare what kind of boat you could buy five years ago with what you can buy now for the same money. Hypothetically, if looking at two otherwise identical boats five years apart in age who would you pay nearly as much for the one five years older ?

Also, you need to take good care of that boat asset or there will be even more pain when you go to sell it. So please be careful out there...


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## Dewey Benson (Jun 28, 2006)

The boat market has seen some odd devolutions. During the 70's you would have had to have used an appreciation schedule.

I think it was 1979 or 1980 when Cal Yachts had a major ad campaign touting the fact that no used Cal 39 had been sold for less than it had sold for new.

Oddly enough many vessels appreciated so much one could recover not only sales costs but moorage costs for a several year period.

By the mid 80's the situation had reversed itself to the point that many US manufacturers were going or had gone out of business. Manufacturing climate, tax climate, and some wacko interest rates were to blame as well as a glut on the market of fiberglass vessels that didn't rot when unatended. 

Prices firmed up in the mid to late 90's slowing the depreciation experienced during the previous decade. Used prices continue to remain high in general as the upper end of the luxury market has ballooned while some segments have suffered disproportinate losses. These segments vary by geographical area. here in San Diego Non-trailerable boats of less than 30 feet have depreciated more than the 34-45 foot segment. 

Dewey


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Two years ago, when we bought our current boat, the five Nauticat 33s of similar age and condition we inspected, were all similarly priced. The seller of our boat eventually accepted our final offer, which after survey, was 20% off list. 

I recently researched the market for similar available models and was delighted to find the asking prices have increased by 20 - 30% from 2 years ago. A buyer would need to negotiate a price 40 to 50% below list to reach what we paid. That's a comforting thought, in respect to what most consider to be a depreciating asset.


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## Dewey Benson (Jun 28, 2006)

In addition as True points out, some segments hold or increase value even relative to inflation. Most Nauticat 44's in my recent experience of late 1970's and early 1980's models (the same vessel is still in manufacture, must be closing in on the record of longest production boat) have asking prices in the $200,000 range (plus or minus 15%). This model new is more than double that.

Dewey


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## captnnero (Jul 19, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> ...
> I recently researched the market for similar available models and was delighted to find the asking prices have increased by 20 - 30% from 2 years ago. A buyer would need to negotiate a price 40 to 50% below list to reach what we paid. That's a comforting thought, in respect to what most consider to be a depreciating asset.


TrueBlue, I noticed most of the current Nauticat 33's are listed overseas where the Euro/Dollar exchange rate can sometimes cause a very real "regional" effect. I don't know your particular circumstance but I'm just warning others in case they start comparing US to overseas boat pricing.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

captnnero-
Bear in mind that boats listed for sale in the EU are also reflecting the significant VAT surcharge on them. And a "cheaper" boat from the US, would have to pay the VAT tax once it had overstayed the guest times in the EU. (As opposed to our varying sales and use and personal property taxes in the US.)


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## Dewey Benson (Jun 28, 2006)

EU vs US:

In the case of the Nauticats. The prices ARE skewed by the European market.

A relativly rare creature due to the sophisticated nature of the product and the type of owner that pursues it. The seekers of such craft will travel to locate and purchase them where ever they may be.

Note the US prices and you shall see the diference in US And EU is negligible. Then there are cases of what I call Broker Bloat. A rightly proud owner of a vessel bludgens a broker into listing it at an astronomical price unrelated to the market, or a broker tells the lister what he wants to hear to obtain the listing. There was a Nauticat 52 in the Pac Northwest, listed wayyy above the most bloated EU price as recently as last year (might still be there).

Dewey


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

captnnero said:


> TrueBlue, I noticed most of the current Nauticat 33's are listed overseas where the Euro/Dollar exchange rate can sometimes cause a very real "regional" effect. I don't know your particular circumstance but I'm just warning others in case they start comparing US to overseas boat pricing.


Guess I have to justify my claims captn. Of course this is all subjective and these boats are very unique with some very obsessive owners. 

I was comparing my purchase only to US listed NC33s, although you are correct in that buyers from overseas frequently travel to this country to purchase these boats, taking avantage of the "lower" prices.

Four boats of my vintage are listed in Europe between 150k to 203k US$. Keep in mind that these listed boats are only 33 feet and 20 or more years old. However, we inspected a new 33 at a recent boat show that listed for a bargain "show price" of 250k (plus all those "hidden costs" like shipping, taxes, rigging, ect.), without any of the add-ons on our boat such as AP, GPS, VHF, A/C, Espar, Radar, chart plotters, etc. We've seen equipped new ones sell for over $325k.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatDetails.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&currencyid=100&boat_id=1204603&checked_boats=1204603&back=%2Fcore%2Flisting%2Fcache%2FsearchResults.jsp%3Fhmid%3D0%26sm%3D3%26enid%3D0%26luom%3D126%26currencyid%3D100%26toLength%3D33%26cit%3Dtrue%26fromLength%3D33%26ps%3D30%26ftid%3D0%26man%3Dnauticat%26slim%3Dquick&searchtype=

My boat is a 1986 model with the modified fin-keel and tall rig options, is in very good condition - stored inside each winter by the previous owner and used lightly. Only 1,600 hrs on the Lehman 90hp diesel. I smile when recalling what we paid 2 years ago.

http://www.sailnet.com/photogallery/watermark.php?file=27&size=1

Just a brief search of US boats in similar, or worse condition results in the following:

A 1985 in Seattle for just under 200k -
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatDetails.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&currencyid=100&boat_id=1549914&checked_boats=1549914&back=%2Fcore%2Flisting%2Fcache%2FsearchResults.jsp%3Fhmid%3D0%26sm%3D3%26enid%3D0%26luom%3D126%26currencyid%3D100%26toLength%3D33%26cit%3Dtrue%26fromLength%3D33%26ps%3D30%26ftid%3D0%26man%3Dnauticat%26slim%3Dquick&searchtype=

Another '85 in Georgia for 105k -
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatDetails.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&currencyid=100&boat_id=1591344&checked_boats=1591344&back=%2Fcore%2Flisting%2Fcache%2FsearchResults.jsp%3Fhmid%3D0%26sm%3D3%26enid%3D0%26luom%3D126%26currencyid%3D100%26toLength%3D33%26cit%3Dtrue%26fromLength%3D33%26ps%3D30%26ftid%3D0%26man%3Dnauticat%26slim%3Dquick&searchtype=

I did find two in MD & FL listed for less which are the shoal draft, short rig models. These models sail like dogs and appear to have other issues. They are listed for less for this reason. I have found that the good ones go very quickly - including two which sold within a few weeks in my waters earlier this year for well over 100k.

Sorry if I digressed too much from the focus of this thread.


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## Dewey Benson (Jun 28, 2006)

True,

I don't believe you have digressed at all. The fluidity of the various segments of the boat market directly address the posters depreciation question.

Part of the problem in assessing boat values lies in the fact that there is not a huge base of boat sales in a particular model or type of vessel in most cases. With cars there are many thousands sold each year, and average selling prices are easy to determine.

Catalina 30's are one of the easy ones to price because of the volume sold. Many boat models have production runs of less than 50 (not in a year, an entire run!). One of these may not sell used in a two or three year period.

Other vessels are specialty craft and appeal to only a limited segment of the market. That may in some cases drive the price up, and in others drive it down.

General economy trends highly affect current prices as a "Yacht" is disposable income, a luxury item. No one NEEDS a yacht. This is opposed to lets say, a commercial fishing craft where the owners need the vessel to earn a living.

Robust economys drive prices up, poor down, and the stratified economy that we are experiencing now raises certain segments and lowers others.
Interesting stuff!

Dewey


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## captnnero (Jul 19, 2006)

*digression is good*



Dewey Benson said:


> True,
> 
> I don't believe you have digressed at all. The fluidity of the various segments of the boat market directly address the posters depreciation question.
> 
> Part of the problem in assessing boat values lies in the fact that there is not a huge base of boat sales in a particular model or type of vessel in most cases. ...


I stayed mostly out of this thread early on because of the huge uncertainties involved. Dewey's hit the nail on the head here several times. He's poured a bunch of free variables into the discussion. As time rolls over a vessel the uncertainties in value increase.

Most new boats experience about 20% depreciation within the first couple of years. Then the average goes to about 6% per year.

There is not a futures market for used boat trading. If you buy a boat base most of your decision on how much enjoyment you think that you can extract from it. While you use it smother it with TLC to protect it's safety and value. Then when you no longer use it or enjoy it, cash out at what the market will bear. Once your boat asset starts sitting around unused, it's value tends to whither unless you continue to smother it with TLC.


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## Dewey Benson (Jun 28, 2006)

captnnero said:


> There is not a futures market for used boat trading.


Thank god! Boats listed with pork bellies! For each fortune made 100 fortunes lost.

The true value of a boat is what you get out of it. When I was young and didn't have a lot of cash, going out to that boat was my lifeline. The intangble "quality of life". It made me feel a sense of adventure, purpose, self reliance.

It made me feel good.

Dewey


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Yeap, Dewey really hit the nail on the head. There aren't many transactions to go by to get a meaningful number to guide a new buyer to negotiate.  I am not ready to buy yet, but when I am ready a year so from now. I guess I just have to lowball it, and see. Thanks for contributing.



> Most new boats experience about 20% depreciation within the first couple of years. Then the average goes to about 6% per year.


I certainly will this as a start.

For those who have gone through or witnessed the selling and purchasing a sailboat, please share with us what was the percentage of the purchase to the asking price. Again this must vary a lot. But what the heck, let's hear some numbers.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

TrueBlue, I'm afraid I'm lost. The "unmentioned" hidden costs of a new purchase, like rigging and all...amount to what? And, are we taking into account a set of new sails versus, what, eight or ten grand (?) to replace the ones on the average 33' 1985 boat?

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong here, just that cost accounting can be a very subtle and outright deceptive path to walk.

I haven't been taking strict notes but have seen that one some boats in a certain range, over the last five years the used boat prices have ZOOMED a good 30-40%. Not, as best I can see, from any other reason aside from the fact that new boats still cost more, and the older boats from the early 80's or late 70's have either been sucked off the market, smashed in storms, or damaged by neglect--leaving the market for a "good old boat" that much thinner and that much higher in price. 

One good storm season and what, four or five thousand boats get sucked out of the market? One thousand? That's still a HUGE chunk of market share, I think we're seeing that now. And the folks that lose used ones--aren't replacing them with new ones. They're competing in the used market again, I think.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

hellosailor said:


> TrueBlue, I'm afraid I'm lost. The "unmentioned" hidden costs of a new purchase, like rigging and all...amount to what? And, are we taking into account a set of new sails versus, what, eight or ten grand (?) to replace the ones on the average 33' 1985 boat?


The costs I was referring to in that context were specific to buying a new Nauticat from a dealer, not a 1985. The US dealer at a boat show quoted us a "base" price for the boat, in this case about 250k for a new 331. The price of course included the sails, standing and running rigging, but since each boat is custom built in Finland per order and shipped overseas, additional costs include rigging once received by the dealer.


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## Dewey Benson (Jun 28, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> TrueBlue, I'm afraid I'm lost. The "unmentioned" hidden costs of a new purchase, like rigging and all...amount to what? And, are we taking into account a set of new sails versus, what, eight or ten grand (?) to replace the ones on the average 33' 1985 boat?


True was almost certainly refering to a new 2006 Nauticat purchase. go to yachtworld and punch in nauticat in the search box. You will see an ad for the current East coast dealer in Ct for each model size of current production with a price. You will not be able to purchase that boat and take delivery where you are for that price. It will be nessesary to add many things to the "base price" as well as to get it home. Keep in mind that the value of the Euro is a direct effect as well, as the boat is manufactured in Finland.

Some of the vessels (like the 515) will have 2 year waits for the build, which add additionl uncertainty to the costs.

Dewey


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## captnnero (Jul 19, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> ...
> I haven't been taking strict notes but have seen that one some boats in a certain range, over the last five years the used boat prices have ZOOMED a good 30-40%. Not, as best I can see, from any other reason aside from the fact that new boats still cost more, and the older boats from the early 80's or late 70's have either been sucked off the market, smashed in storms, or damaged by neglect--leaving the market for a "good old boat" that much thinner and that much higher in price. ...


Hellosailor, this is quite fascinating. Can you give us a good example with that kind of appreciation since 2001 ? I'd like to get a piece of that action.


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## captnnero (Jul 19, 2006)

rockDAWG said:


> Yeap, Dewey really hit the nail on the head. There aren't many transactions to go by to get a meaningful number to guide a new buyer to negotiate...


It depends, it depends. Sometimes what you are buying is a high production boat, or was in the era that you are purchasing from. In those cases you can work closely with your broker on recent sold prices for that model for comparables. Without the broker you're in the dark and only looking at asking prices since sold prices fluctuate considerably underneath the asking prices. Besides the other market forces there is always the combined motivations of buyer and seller on an indiviual transaction. Even when there aren't direct sold comps, you can still poke around with the sold prices on the competitors to the target vessel to get a somewhat wider, but gut feel for what a target is worth.

That being said, no matter what you reason ahead of time, only your gut will tell you what the current deal is worth to you once the offer/counteroffer game is afoot.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Nero-
Not specifically, but I'd been looking at a certain 38' production boat and seen the low end of the used offerings (low but apparently sound, no structural problems) touch down near 55k five or six years ago, and now "the same" boats are more like 80+k. Not that there weren't overlaps on both ends, but the 50-60-65k boats that were out five years ago, aren't. They're been replaced by mainly 80-90k boats.
Could be other market factors, but my general impression is that "sound" used boats in that size range have come up significantly. A more objective way to check would be, of course, the BUC books.


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## captnnero (Jul 19, 2006)

*snuggling*



hellosailor said:


> Nero-
> Not specifically, but I'd been looking at a certain 38' production boat and seen the low end of the used offerings (low but apparently sound, no structural problems) touch down near 55k five or six years ago, and now "the same" boats are more like 80+k. Not that there weren't overlaps on both ends, but the 50-60-65k boats that were out five years ago, aren't. They're been replaced by mainly 80-90k boats.
> Could be other market factors, but my general impression is that "sound" used boats in that size range have come up significantly. A more objective way to check would be, of course, the BUC books.


When you say "the same" do you mean the same year or the same age ? If its the same age then the new boat price inflation is just rolling along thru the fleet.

Sometimes it's pretty volatile. I was surprised a couple of years ago at how I got as much for a 16 year old Ericson 32 as what I paid for it five years before. In that case I think it rode the luxury tax induced used boat shortage wave from many years before. Then when I looked at all of the costs, the 10% to the broker was only a small part of the costs compared to slip fees, insurance, and maintenance. As long as you don't flip boats often, the broker fee is just noise compared to the other stuff if you don't own your slip. Of course the broker fee judgement is very sensitive to the value of the boat.

Something to keep in mind with boat value info is that the lenders and insurers like to have a tidy lookup table or formula. If you really want to know what is going on out there right now you need snuggle up to your broker and look at recent (1-2 years) sale prices.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

captnnero said:


> In those cases you can work closely with your broker on recent sold prices for that model for comparables.


Captain Neal, please excuse my nooobie questions here 
Is it a common practice for buyer to have his own broker just like in real estate? If this is the case, how does the commission split between brokers? Thanks.


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## captnnero (Jul 19, 2006)

rockDAWG said:


> Captain Neal, please excuse my nooobie questions here
> Is it a common practice for buyer to have his own broker just like in real estate? If this is the case, how does the commission split between brokers? Thanks.


Sure, it happens all of the time. You walk into a brokerage and say, "I want to look at boat X that you have listed". After looking at X you decide it isn't the right boat. So the broker searches for a vessel outside the broker's listings rather than have you just walk out the door. Then having used that broker successfully you develop a relationship and use the same broker in the future. The exact split breakdown depends on the brokerage-to-brokerage relationship.


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

you wrote:

Captain Neal, please excuse my nooobie questions here 
Is it a common practice for buyer to have his own broker just like in real estate? If this is the case, how does the commission split between brokers? Thanks.

Its just as the good cap'n states,
the only thing I would add is that if the broker buddy you choose hasn't shown you as many boats that other brokers have listed as his own listings, I'd start expanding my brokers' mindset for him. The brokers decide between them selves what the "cut" is going to be, and that may inpact your purchase price.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I've a question on brokers and broker fees. I'm dealing with a broker outside my area and opted not to bring in another broker to rep me. I'm stuck on the concept of me sending 10% of an $70-$80k price to someone that I've only talked to and visited his web site. Perhaps I need to "trust" more or something but when I've made an offer on my $200k house, I used $1000 as a good faith deposit. I fail to see why I'm suppose to send someone whom I don't know a check for $7k or so with his promise that it will not be cashed until the sale is done.

I sent an email off saying that I'm willing to tender an offer with some additional requirements and will not be sending along the 10%. I'll send along a nice check - but it will not be 10%. I was going to do 5% but have not heard back and now I'm thinking that 5% may be too much. 

Most likely the fellow is a right and honest broker and would not cash the check until the deal is done. I just fail to see why this is the norm in the industry. That said, it is a contract and I can do what I want - I assume that he is obligated to take my offer to the owner regardless of the deposit that I send along with it.

Thoughts?

Thanks - N.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

You can write the contract anyway you want. I would not send more than $1,000 to show good faith with the stipulation that the check not be cashed until the offer is accepted subject to the buyer's complete satisfaction with a marine survey. If they don't like it move on.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"he is obligated to take my offer to the owner regardless "
Yes, unless he's made an agreement with the owner, i.e. "Don't even bother me unless they offer you $xxx and give you a check for $yyy to prove it." Brokers are paid to be bulldogs (keep out the riff-raff) as much as they are paid to get the boat sold.


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