# Sailing into the slip



## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

I've sailed in and out of the Branford harbor many times but tonight was the first time I sailed all the way back right to the dock without turning on the motor.

We motored out to the just past the harbor entrance, just before lovers island, but from there on it was sailing all the way out and back.

First time everything worked out perfectly.

Just enough wind but not too much.
Right direction.
Had reason to expect the motor might start if we needed it.
Current was slack and starting to flood with us but not too much.
Had time
Lights worked good enough
Boat owner was up for it.

Doesn't get better than that.

PS the dock is at the blue arrow at the top of the picture. The straight blue line to the right of the arrow is a gps artifact and not part of the track.


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## WanderingStar (Nov 12, 2008)

That's really cool David. I used to sail my Pennant into the slip, but she was very handy and only weighed one ton, not too hard to stop.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Good job! I consider it mandatory to be able to sail into one's slip. Unfortunately, the configuration of many marinas makes that easier said than done, but it can be done. Roller furling makes it easier. We usually drop the main somewhere near the harbor or marina entrance and then bleed off speed as necessary by luffing the genoa or progressively furling it. Sailing to your slip isn't a whole lot different than sailing to a mooring - both are just targets.

Our last boat, a Sabre 28, had a ton of gunk in the fuel tank. We sailed into our slip nearly every weekend for a summer before I got tired of it and had the tank throroughly cleaned.

Remember - people sailed around the world far longer than they've been navigating with engines. If they can do it, so can we. It just takes planning and patience. And a willingness to look like a fool - that helps a lot. :laugher


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I've sailed into my slip a few times, motor...cough cough....failed to start....cough cough!

why that excuse as my marina does not allow sailing within the breakwater! so i am supposed to motor in and out. BUT, I have sailed my 3.5 ton 28' on deck boat in, as have a few others here and there, late at night after a race etc. I usually sail under main alone.

Marty


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## seaojoe (May 4, 2002)

Sabreman has it right. It should be mandatory. I cant tell you the times I've reached for the engine and nada, nothing, dead. Practice helps.


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## swblack1216 (Sep 15, 2012)

Great feeling;
I do it all the time light air. summer puget sound. Usually the power boaters come running asking what went wrong with my engine .I tell them just sick of hearing it.Loud farymann.
CAL2-29 PRETTY LIGHT. Just gotta watch the current up here

Now that my shaft coupler broke gotta learn how to sail out


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## fjonball (Jan 5, 2012)

Ah, yes that's a great feeling!

I sort of feel bad for people who are so worried about a scratch in their boats that they never try it. They never get that good feeling. Also they never really learn how to do fine manouvering with sail. 

I have an 1975 ALO 28 feet, 3.5 tons, with a couple of scratches and an original engine. With such a configuration you can stop the boat by hand, you're not afraid of another scratch, and you get plenty of opportunities to try your skills


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

I could only do this if the wind was NE and calm which I do not recall witnessing in the time I have lived here. NE usually blows.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

I've had to do it a few times on a buddies boat - engine maintenance was never a high point for him. 
Sort of fun, sort of not. 
It's not that hard. 
Now backing in under sail - that takes skill.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

If my engine failed, I would sail into the gas dock first then plan out a way to get it into the slip. In my marina there are too many bow sprits with anchors sticking out into the narrow fairway to risk getting pushed into them by the river's cross currents.


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

All together now:

"Motor? We don't need no stinkin motor!"


At least when the wind is out of the east or north and not too strong. Problem with prevailing southerlies is the pier is to windward and too narrow for beating. Then we do need the stinkin motor, so we talk to it more nicely.

We're two-faced about stinkin' motors. We don't need them until we do.


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

I have a windward slip. Our marina does allow sailing inside the breakwater. More often than not, upon my return, I sail my 30 footer in. I have a narrow (9') beam, which helps. I take the main down in the channel and basically crawl in. Jib is always furled first- I may try the other method next time.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Last day of Screwpile we flew the chute back in to solomons, around the island, up the creek, doused right before the club and button hooked it under main into the slip. 

The outboard stayed down below over the keel the entire time.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

fjonball said:


> I sort of feel bad for people who are so worried about a scratch in their boats that they never try it.


Maybe they're worried about scratches on _other people's boats_?



Sabreman said:


> Sailing to your slip isn't a whole lot different than sailing to a mooring - both are just targets.


Different kinds of targets. The latter is just a position. The former is the last in a long sequence of constrained positions and orientations.



> Remember - people sailed around the world far longer than they've been navigating with engines.


How often did they navigate into modern, crowded into marinas? Sailing in open water with a huge crew doesn't compare to maneuvering in tight spaces surrounded by financial dynamite.


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## IslanderGuy (Apr 26, 2008)

Our last spot I could sail into and did many times. First out of necessity, but eventually just because I could and I enjoyed it. 

Now I think I could if I really had to, but its a tight spot with a BIG nice boat sharing the same space. The risks of damaging the other boat is what stops me now. If he's out sometime, I would definitely give it go. 

I too get the fact that people have sailed around the world for a long time without engines, but if they had to dock in my slip with that much money crammed into a small space they might just anchor out! 

If I HAD to sail in to my current spot I would, but I'd likely dock at an easier place first and round up a few helping hands on the dock. Lots of people around most days to lend a hand and lower the risk of hitting my neighbor.


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## jimjazzdad (Jul 15, 2008)

I sail on and off my mooring fairly often (37' 18,000#), sometimes even when I sail solo. I have sailed up to various docks, but would not sail into a slip unless I had no other choice - too much potential to mess up someone else's boat...


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## SkywalkerII (Feb 20, 2008)

Reminds me of the movie "City Slickers"

There's nothin like brining in the herd!

There's nothin like sailing into your slip or up to your mooring!

Skywalker 
T27 249


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## Ed D (Oct 9, 2011)

Wow.
You guys rock!
I've coasted in many times, but not yet sailed to the marina slip.
I think I'd reach for the gas dock unless it was very late and quiet.

Ed


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## crstophr (Feb 15, 2012)

It's a safety issue for me. I have an old outboard at 12 years and have to expect it's going to die at some inconvenient time. So I practice sailing into my slip with the motor running and in neutral. It gives me the confidence to go for it knowing that it's there if I need it.

Two weeks ago I lost my water pump in the outboard and it briefly overheated while motoring out towards the bay. Thankfully all I had to do was raise the main and head back home. My stress level was much lower knowing that I had done this before. I still keep a boat hook in reach every time though.... just in case. Thankfully I'm in the low rent marina and not many fancy boats nearby.

I also highly recommend getting comfortable swimming your boat with the rudder if you have a tiller. I can make almost 1kt doing this and that's enough to steer and get back home or make last minute maneuvers while docking.

--Chris


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## asdf38 (Jul 7, 2010)

Hmm I don't have a slip but this thread will help inspire me to sail on and off the mooring more often. I've had to do it once (busted impeller) but have only done it a couple times voluntarily.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

Tacking a 36' boat in a channel 45' wide is tricky, so we're careful to pick a day when the wind is from the right direction and we have enough crew to drop sails quickly if we need to. We moor at both bow & stern, so gauging the speed and momentum is important. If you're going too fast, the crew has trouble catching the first buoy, and you overshoot the next & run into the boat ahead. If you're going too slowly, you don't make it to the second one. Going in to the gas dock is easier because you have a longer target area. Slips are tougher becauseyou have finite maneuverability. Would love to show a picture, but uploads fail on every attachment I try.


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## Sublime (Sep 11, 2010)

Dad hated working on the diesel so I grew up learning to sail into a slip. However, it'd still make me nervous.

My slip is usually a crosswind landing. Prevailing winds mean I'd come in on a run. My plan is to use the jib. I put the motor in neutral several slips away anyway and coast in so I could just roll up the jib when I got close. My boom is long enough to go over and hit other boats as I came in when I'd let the sheet out to luff the sail. I don't want to have to climb over sail on the deck to pick up dock lines either (I single hand a lot). So the main just isn't a good idea for me.

If the wind is from the north, I'm screwed as it's too narrow a channel to tack. I wouldn't even be able to spin her on her keel. 
If I have a north wind and the motor craps, I'll call for a tow. I have an outboard motor so I'm just waiting for it to fail on me. 

I haven't had to land the Hunter yet without a motor. The Drascombe's motor crapped out on me several times and I've had to sail up to a dock with it. My downwind landing wasn't graceful but the boat, dock, lookie-loos and I were all safe and unscathed.


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

crstophr said:


> I also highly recommend getting comfortable swimming your boat with the rudder if you have a tiller. I can make almost 1kt doing this and that's enough to steer and get back home or make last minute maneuvers while docking.
> 
> --Chris


This is key- I do it every time I take her out. I would be useless on a boat with a wheel.


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## nickmerc (Nov 2, 2008)

I was very furtunate to have a "pull through" slip. I was great. I could sail out and in with little risk of damaging my boat or anyone elses. The trouble for me, however was all of the sailboats under power in the large channel not giving way while I was under sail. I even had one lady scream at me about not using the engine. I replied the engine is the large white things hanging off the metal stick. I expected that behavior from the power boats, but not other sailors.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

I second all the recommendations to sail to something like a fuel dock or gas dock.

I've docked under sail a few times. The first was a fuel dock on the outside of a marina in the winter with no other vessels around. The second was a parks dock, again on the outside, again I was the only vessel. The third was the unoccupied end tie in an unfamiliar marina during a small-craft, which was fortunately surrounded by walls that blocked most of the wind... that was the toughest (engine failure).

The last was the guest dock at my own marina, quite long, first thing you pass on the way in after the breakwater, again unoccupied. We had a tailwind and came in under a 110% jib only, and cast off the sheet about three boat lengths away. If we didn't have a tailwind, with a tall breakwater attenuating it, I wouldn't have attempted it but would have anchored outside instead. Which, btw, is what they always did in "the old days".


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Well, my opinion which is sure to get razed: I don't do it unless it is an emergency. I also don't believe anyone else should that has another option. I am not talking about emergencys. I have had to sail in to the slip (most of us have that have sailed or cruised for very long... mine was a plastic bag int the strainer at night). I also agree with Paul that sailing into a slip versus a mooring ball is much harder. The mooring ball you can always turn into the wind and gauge your approach better and see around better for traffic. I have no issue with sailing onto a mooring ball.

My personal issue with you sailing into and out of the marina is that you may have to tack or jibe down a very narrow fairway. If its just one sailboat and no one else on the water, especially small ones, not the end of the world. You get several sailboats coming in and doing it and throw in a power boat or two, then you have the potential for an issue or damage. And under sail, you cannot stop quickly so you become a liability to others. What about a kid swimming across the fairway and you didn't see them until the last second? I have seen this several times, btw.

This isn't about learning a skill to me. You can practice this in open water and especially good when doing MOB with a floating object. However, when you sail into the slip (esp in a busy marina and narrow channel), you take right of way and everyone else must wait for you to do your thing. And no one in their right mind is going to be sailing into a marina fast unless they are especially good at gell coat repairs. SO you are going to peter-pater at 1-2 knots while the rest of us have to wait for you so we can get out and enjoy the water. And why? Because you enjoy it, want to learn a skill, don't feel like turning on your engine, etc. Frankly, this is one of the things that makes power boaters hate us... and rightfully so.

Sorry. Just my opinion.

Brian


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

nickmerc said:


> ...The trouble for me, however was all of the sailboats under power in the large channel not giving way while I was under sail. I even had one lady scream at me about not using the engine. I replied the engine is the large white things hanging off the metal stick...


Hmmm, something strikes me a little odd here. While powerboaters are often clueless, usually fellow sailors are very understanding of any boats under sail. Your reference to "all of the other sailboats under power" makes it sound like you were the only one under sail. And that makes me wonder why this was the case. Is it possible that you were in an area where it was not safe to be under sail power? For instance, it can be dangerous to tack across a crowded channel. This is just speculation, since you have not given enough information.

However, it does raise an interesting aspect of the rules of navigation. Contrary to popular misstatements, vessels under sail do not have right of way. They are usually the stand-on vessel. What's the difference between these two? My understanding is that a stand-on vessel has the right (and the obligation) to maintain his course and speed until he is clear of all obstacles (such as other boats). To me, this rule may prohibit one from tacking through a crowded channel under sail, because in the presence of obstacles you are not allowed to tack, since that requires changing course and speed. So maybe that's why she yelled at you.

Could you provide more details to explain the circumstances that caused everyone but you to be under power?


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

We sail the Schock Harbor 25 into the slip all the time - relatively easy with a smaller boat.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Rule 9 - Narrow Channels 
(a) (i) A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.

...(b) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.

Rule 16 - Action by Give-way Vessel 

Every vessel which is directed to keep out of the way of another vessel shall, so far as possible, take early and substantial action to keep well clear.

Rule 17- Action by Stand-on Vessel 

(a) (i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way, the other shall keep her course and speed.

(ii) The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her maneuver alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules.

(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision.

(c) A power-driven vessel which takes action in a crossing situation in accordance with subparagraph (a)(ii) of this Rule to avoid collision with another power-driven vessel shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, not alter course to port for a vessel on her own port side.

(d) This Rule does not relieve the give-way vessel of her obligation to keep out of the way.

Rule 18 - Responsibilities Between Vessels 

Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:

(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing;
(iv) a sailing vessel.

(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

jameswilson29 said:


> ...Rule 17- Action by Stand-on Vessel
> 
> (a) (i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way, the other shall keep her course and speed...


By my interpretation, this prohibits tacking in a situation where it creates an obstacle for other boats, even if those other boats are under power.


jameswilson29 said:


> Rule 18 - Responsibilities Between Vessels
> ...(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
> 
> (i) a vessel not under command;
> ...


This is why I said that vessels under sail are "usually" (not "always") the stand-on vessel.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

I think you probably right if you are the stand on vessel, the power-driven vessel has taken action to avoid you, and you tack and cause a collision that cannot be avoided by the other vessel, or you. In any event, you will irrate the captains of all other nonsail vessels as most do not understand that we are not able to sail directly into the wind.

On my recent trip home, a Navy vessel intercepted me about 4 n.m. away from the bombing site south of Cedar Point in the mid-Chesapeake, which I intended to skirt around. I was directed to sail away East toward Hooper's Island and then to proceed South (directly into the wind).

While I was able to obey the first part of the order and sail toward Hooper's Island, I had to disobey the second part and continue tacking down the Bay. Thankfully, no one shot at me or bombed my boat when I tacked West, South of the bombing site toward Point No Point.


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

I sail in and out of the slip 100% of the time, then again I don't have a motor so I don't have a choice. I have to admit it scares the S%#t out of me every time.


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

I only know of one marina out of all the ones I frequent that allow vessels under sail to enter the marina. I feel those rules are there for good reason. When I had engine failure I dropped the anchor out the front of the marina and organized a tow into my slip. I didn't damage my boat or anyone else, I did not inconvenience any one and the stress level was not there. If you have an engine use it, if sailing into a marina is fun for you then all I can say is so far you have been lucky, the day will come when the luck runs out and you will hit another boat. A little outboard is cheap and in the long run could save you and others a lot of money, time and inconvenience. This rant is not aimed at anyone in particular, just think of it as a scatter gun effect, or hand grenade.


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

SimonV said:


> I only know of one marina out of all the ones I frequent that allow vessels under sail to enter the marina. I feel those rules are there for good reason. When I had engine failure I dropped the anchor out the front of the marina and organized a tow into my slip. I didn't damage my boat or anyone else, I did not inconvenience any one and the stress level was not there. If you have an engine use it, if sailing into a marina is fun for you then all I can say is so far you have been lucky, the day will come when the luck runs out and you will hit another boat. A little outboard is cheap and in the long run could save you and others a lot of money, time and inconvenience. This rant is not aimed at anyone in particular, just think of it as a scatter gun effect, or hand grenade.


Of course.

I find these threads to be heavy on bragging. Sure, it's good to have close maneuvering skills, and I have sailed into slips when I had a legitimate engine failure. Once, and it was easy. I could probably do it 100 times without event. But no matter what I think of my skills, I've seen too many boats back out with no warning and no skills will help in a narrow fairway.

And do I even have the right to jam up traffic over vanity?

Silliness in crowded harbors and marinas, for the most part.

____________

As for those that sail small boats without engines, I'm not talking to you. A whole different topic.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

davidpm said:


> I
> 
> 
> Had reason to expect the motor might start if we needed it.


Foolish foolish man! Hasn't your marine diesel taught you anything yet!!

MedSailor


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

> Originally Posted by davidpm
> I Had reason to expect the motor might start if we needed it.


I thought Murphy resided on all boats including mine.


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

This is a funny topic, engines make you safe?? If I had a dollar for every time I have watched a guy with an engine plow into another boat in the marina I would be a wealthy man. It comes down to skill preparation and always thinking one step ahead. There is nothing unsafe about sailing in and out of the harbor if its done right. We all have different reasons for what we do, I think the real problem is that so many boats are so poorly designed that they have to be motored. We had a guy here with and engineless boat, 30,000lbs and 50' overall, he never hit anything in over ten years of sailing, luck? I would call it seamanship... just my 2 cents which is all its worth.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

barefootnavigator said:


> This is a funny topic, engines make you safe?? If I had a dollar for every time I have watched a guy with an engine plow into another boat in the marina I would be a wealthy man. It comes down to skill preparation and always thinking one step ahead. There is nothing unsafe about sailing in and out of the harbor if its done right. We all have different reasons for what we do, I think the real problem is that so many boats are so poorly designed that they have to be motored. We had a guy here with and engineless boat, 30,000lbs and 50' overall, he never hit anything in over ten years of sailing, luck? I would call it seamanship... just my 2 cents which is all its worth.


Engines make you safe-r. Safer, not safe. You cannot come to a quick stop under sail. You cannot go dead into the wind under sail. Just like an engine can malfunction, so can a sail. Ever had a sheet jam in a car or get a twist on the winch? I sure have. The same guy that ran into the boat with his engine... can you imagine the disaster he would have made under sail? And was it the failure of the engine that he ran into another boat, or was it the failure of the captain to know how to motor his boat, or do proper maintenance, or was he drunk? Motoring into the marina versus sailing in was not what went wrong, it was the captain and the execution.

Seamanship is a lot more than learning to sail or learning to motor. It is thinking ahead to the things that can go wrong and what makes your vessel, your crew, and those around you the safest. Sailing into a marina, in my opinion, is not one of them. There are a lot of other ways to practice your sailing skills without doing it in a marina... if you have other options. And even forgetting the safety aspect, it is a matter of courtesy for those around you.

My opinions.

Brian


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

This thread is not complete without the Captain Ron docking clip.






Regards,
Brad


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## nickmerc (Nov 2, 2008)

TakeFive said:


> Hmmm, something strikes me a little odd here. While powerboaters are often clueless, usually fellow sailors are very understanding of any boats under sail. Your reference to "all of the other sailboats under power" makes it sound like you were the only one under sail. And that makes me wonder why this was the case. Is it possible that you were in an area where it was not safe to be under sail power? For instance, it can be dangerous to tack across a crowded channel. This is just speculation, since you have not given enough information.
> 
> However, it does raise an interesting aspect of the rules of navigation. Contrary to popular misstatements, vessels under sail do not have right of way. They are usually the stand-on vessel. What's the difference between these two? My understanding is that a stand-on vessel has the right (and the obligation) to maintain his course and speed until he is clear of all obstacles (such as other boats). To me, this rule may prohibit one from tacking through a crowded channel under sail, because in the presence of obstacles you are not allowed to tack, since that requires changing course and speed. So maybe that's why she yelled at you.
> 
> Could you provide more details to explain the circumstances that caused everyone but you to be under power?


This is a fairly large creek in Annapolis. Many of the race boats from the creek sail into and out of this creek regularly. The time I got yelled at was because she was behind me going ~5kts under power. I was only going 3 kts under sail. She wanted to pass me and was unwilling to wait for the incoming boat to pass us. I would have gladly moved out of her way but I was constrained by draft in that direction. I was on a nice broad reach at the time.

Other times when I am sailing into or out of this creek the other sail boaters are not paying close attention. There is quite a bit of that around there.

When I say a large creek I mean during the boat show people anchor in the middle of it and there is still room for both directions of traffic.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Originally Posted by davidpm
I Had reason to expect the motor might start if we needed it.



chef2sail said:


> I thought Murphy resided on all boats including mine.


You notice that I only said I had "reason to expect" not that "I expected".

All season his motor was so temperamental it took a good five minutes to get it started and running poorly. He did extensive work on it and that evening for the trip out it started after only 30 seconds. Not first try but much improved.
So no I didn't trust it at all and was fully prepared to deal with it not starting for quite a while or not at all. I had reason to expect it would start but life and property was not in danger if it didn't.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

SimonV said:


> l I can say is so far you have been lucky, the day will come when the luck runs out and you will hit another boat. A little outboard is cheap and in the long run could save you and others a lot of money, time and inconvenience. This rant is not aimed at anyone in particular, just think of it as a scatter gun effect, or hand grenade.


I don't disagree with the general thought which is why I had never done it before in this harbor even though I have transited this harbor dozens of times.

In this case the conditions were just so perfect. The current was just starting in our favor the winds were only 5 knots and the water was flat. It was almost dusk with a good moon coming up and no traffic.

Everything was happening so slowly that there was very minimal risk.
Even if the sails all jammed and the outboard would not start and the tiller broke we could probably have handled it with little trouble.

It is not something I personally attempt unless everything is nearly perfect.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Even have pics to prove it! but as others have noted, I mentioned in first post, port does not agree with folks sailing into ones slips for many of the reasons mentioned.

marty


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

barefootnavigator said:


> This is a funny topic, engines make you safe?? If I had a dollar for every time I have watched a guy with an engine plow into another boat in the marina I would be a wealthy man. It comes down to skill preparation and always thinking one step ahead. There is nothing unsafe about sailing in and out of the harbor if its done right. We all have different reasons for what we do, I think the real problem is that so many boats are so poorly designed that they have to be motored. We had a guy here with and engineless boat, 30,000lbs and 50' overall, he never hit anything in over ten years of sailing, luck? I would call it seamanship... just my 2 cents which is all its worth.


I think you exaggerate, Yes thing go wrong at times when under power but it is rare, to say you would be wealthy for that dollar each time is fiction. Now if you took the engine out of the equation and everyone had to come into their slip under sail, I would guess marinas would not exist in their present form, Insurance for boats kept in marinas would be unattainable. As for that 30,000lb boat traveling at 2 knots ( about the min for some steering) hits a stationary vessel ( not taking into account the energy lost) hits at 127498 lbs per square inch.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Having read this thread twice and having to sail into my slip just one time, I can unequivocally say I would NEVER do it again. It was the dumbest damned thing I've ever done! When I did it I owned a Catalina 27, which handled like a dream and conditions were perfect. My slip was the last one at the end of the dock and if it had not been for the quick action of my son, I would have taken out at least one other boat.

Now I own a 33 Morgan O.I. that weighs nearly twice as much as the Catalina. If it were to slam into the dock as hard as the Catalina did five years ago, I would have taken out a section of dock and the boats on the opposite side. If I ever get into that predicament again I'll drop anchor, and either swim a line to the dock, or pick up the cellular telephone and call TowBoat U.S. - that's what I pay them all that money each year. 

Cheers,

Gary


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Just wondering: Have any of you thought how you might explain to the insurance adjuster that you damaged someone's boat because you were sailing into the slip unnecessarily? Have any of you actually had to do that?

I have a hunch that your insurance company might cancel you after something like that happened.

Or do you guys actually have insurance?


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## US27inKS (Feb 6, 2005)

I'm sure I'll get razzed for this, but I think sailing in and out is a necessary skill. Even though I own an auto shop, my motor became unreliable and I didn't bother to fix it. I didn't run the engine for 2 years. The cobblers kids have no shoes and the auto mechanic drives junk, and apparently doesn't fix his outboard.

I never came close to hitting someone else's boat, but my slip is in a favorable spot. I did short tack up the fairway between the last dock and the breakwater (only slightly larger than the space between the docks) in a 20+ kt headwind just to pump out. I took a friend to handle dock lines, but since I don't know how to act if I have actual crew, I told him to just enjoy the ride.

I also learned how to sail off the hook singlehanded right up against the shore. You just have to think it through.

I guess I just never understood the fear of sailing in and out. I wouldn't want to tack a 38 foot boat in a 45 foot fairway like someone else said, but my 27 fits just fine.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

barefootnavigator said:


> This is a funny topic, engines make you safe?? If I had a dollar for every time I have watched a guy with an engine plow into another boat in the marina I would be a wealthy man.


And if I had a dollar for every time I watched a guy with an engine _not_ plow into another boat in the marina, my wealth would dwarf yours.

You can ignore statistics all you like; all else being equal, in modern marinas, motoring is far, far safer than sailing. Meaning, if you had equal numbers of similar vessels sailing as motoring (rather than approximately zero vs. hundreds of thousands), in similar conditions, you would see a lot more collisions in the sailing set than in the motoring set.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Boy, I sure hope all you who sail into your slips don't get in the way of other traffic yelling "I'm sailing, I have the right of way".
Seatow and Towboat US are a huge leap forward in marine safety. Use them and don't put your boat and others' at risk just to prove something to yourself or show off. What if things hadn't gone so well? Sure your engine works, but could you keep control in a 30 odd knot gust with sail up, even with the engine in confined spaces?
I've had "sailors" try to force me into the breakwater or the reef when I'm entering the Ala Wai in Honolulu, yelling that they were under sail and had the right of way. Considering I was operating a 1909 gaff ketch, a classic of American boat building, I firmly informed them that their boat would do a lot less damage to mine than the reef or breakwater, so get the hell out of the way. One was stupid enough to complain to the harbormaster, who promptly kicked him out of the marina forever!
Sailing to a fuel dock if absolutely necessary is an option, then to your slip w/ a tow.
Showboats and show-boaters belong in show rooms, not on the water.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

capta,

If you notice the winds in the pics of my boat sailing in, it was probably less than 5 knots! not 30. When it is that windy, could I sail in. probably, would I want to, probably not. As I've helped another boat attempting to tow, keep off the breakwater etc in 30-40+ knot winds. I could do sail to the dock if need be! being as I had to do this with an 8' ram and laser I've sailed as a teen, used to also take off from a buoy with my step dad in a 21' trailer sailor, along with going to the buoy and catching it sailing. Should one be able to do so, yes if in a bind. One should practice if you will at times in lighter winds, so when all holy bajezusus takes over......you at least have an idea on what to do. 

As noted by myself and others, most marina's do not allow sailing in and out, within the breakwater! The few times I have done it, was coming in from a summer race, at or about sunset, not too many boats in the marina. if there had been, the sails would have been down, motor on! "IF" the motor was dead, I could get to the fuel dock, some wind conditions my own slip etc "IF" my motor was truly dead! 

Marty


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## fjonball (Jan 5, 2012)

Sure, you're safer using a motor. But I would say you're also safer if you know how to handle the boat with sails in tight spots. That's why I sail in whenever I can. Sure, in tight spots, heavy wind, between expensive toys etc. you shouldn't. And I don't. But I believe the only way of learning these things is by doing it. I assume that everyone here who sails into the dock does some kind of risk analysis before they go about doing it.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

We all agree that you need to do things to learn how to do them. Where we disagree is whether knowing how to sail into the slip is an essential skill, since you can always anchor out or sail to an more accessible and safely approached dock. And if it's not an essential skill, than taking unnecessary risks to practice that skill is just bad seamanship.

Can't you think of _any_ way of practicing this skill besides actually sailing into your slip? Ideas have already been mentioned in this thread.


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

Not trying to push buttons but how is sailing into a slip more of an unnecessary risk than just plain sailing is an unnecessary risk? I think we can all agree sailing into a downwind slip in 40 knots of breeze might not be an optimal situation. Lets talk about seamanship, if you don't know how to safely sail your boat into and out of the slip you more than likely lack many of the necessary skills to safely operate your boat. Here is the situation, you are in an anchorage that becomes crowed after you go to sleep the wind shifts 90 degrees and picks up to 30 knots, some d*!khead anchored across your anchor, dragged and now you are dragging, somehow your engine wont start and you have to sail out of a crowded anchor at night in high wind engine-less. What would you do?


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## Squidd (Sep 26, 2011)

Call Sea Tow or Boat US...


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

cut his anchor line and then ask the wife if I should wake them up? make it the Admirals decision. or raise a sail and sail to another anchor spot. 
What's this have to do with sailing into a slip?
Sailing into my slip? could I? yes. do I want to? hell NO. its 14 boats in from the end and the runway is 40' wide and then into the slip down wind.
better to practice your seamanship some wear else like a crowded anchorage at night


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

barefootnavigator said:


> Not trying to push buttons but how is sailing into a slip more of an unnecessary risk than just plain sailing is an unnecessary risk?


Oh come on now, that's just silly. Have you no common sense? It's an unnecessary risk because you're risking SOMEONE ELSE'S boat and dock.

Try making your case to a marina manager, or an insurance adjuster, or that marina neighbor who watches you nervously every time you come near his boat under sail. They'll look at you like you're crazy.


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## Sanduskysailor (Aug 1, 2008)

Wow! Seems people get worked up by what should be an essential skill. Some tips can make this a realistic thing to do. I have had a couple of instances with a cranky engine where I had to sail into my slip including at night and in 25 knots. 1. Roller furling makes this easier. Drop the main outside the harbor and furl or unfurl your headsail for speed control and ease of tacking. 2. Use 1 or 2 canvas buckets tied to the stern pulpit to slow you down or stop on your final entry into the dock. Some day go out and experiment tying various lengths of line onto a canvas bucket and see which length is most efficient at stopping you. I saw the bucket trick in the Niagara river where an 8 meter sailed up to a raft up with a spinnaker up and no main. A very cool trick to have in your bag of tricks.

Lest anyone feel inadequate I watched a known sailing writer get towed into his slip on 28 footer by towboat US. It was a nice day with about 10 knots of wind and his slip was pretty accessible. After that it made me wonder about his reviews and the book he wrote.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Sanduskysailor said:


> ...Lest anyone feel inadequate I watched a known sailing writer get towed into his slip on 28 footer by towboat US. It was a nice day with about 10 knots of wind and his slip was pretty accessible. After that it made me wonder about his reviews and the book he wrote.


So a guy subscribes to BoatUS unlimited towing, has an engine failure, and decides to get his $125 worth with a free tow into his slip to be 100% sure he doesn't damage his neighbor's boats (and possibly to comply with the marina's rules)...and you question his competence?


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

barefootnavigator said:


> how is sailing into a slip more of an unnecessary risk than just plain sailing is an unnecessary risk?


What percentage of your time spent sailing is done as close to other vessels as you would be sailing through a modern marina?

Sailing into a slip (for practice) is more of an unnecessary risk because you can get into your slip without sailing. You can't go sailing, however, without sailing. Sailing is necessary for sailing, whereas sailing into your slip is not necessary for getting into your slip.

While you don't _have to_ go sailing, by choosing to go sailing you're not risking other people's property unless you make one of a variety of other choices indicating poor seamanship.

Hopefully this should clear up the confusion around both "unnecessary" and "risk".

Before you say "What about racing?" note that everybody involved in racing knows the risks in advance, whereas it's not fair to expect your marina neighbors to know that by putting their boat in a marina, they risk having somebody sail into their boat while practicing sailing into their slip.

In fact, I think we put our boats into marinas because we assume that marinas are safer than anchorages, and that when boaters navigate the marina, they will do so with a level of precision control over their vessels that they don't normally exercise on open water. Your post, and quite a bit of the sentiment in this thread, seem to forget what marinas are supposed to be about.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Hmmm! This thread seems to be taking the same course of the sleeping thread - AKA it can't happen to me. 

Cheers,

Gary


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

SYOB, what I'm getting at is why is it assumed that every boat under power is being safely operated or that every boat under sail is not being safely operated? I have no engine on my boat so I sail, ie its a sailboat I leave early or late in calm weather and light or non existent traffic. Just like a skier cant ski if there is no snow and a surfer cant surf if there are no waves, I need optimal conditions. its the guys under power with no skills " lots in my marina" that scare the hell out of me. Last week I watched a guy in a sailboat in no wind hit another sailboat that was docked at full throttle, this is in no way shape or form uncommon around here. What I love most about sailing is the challenge and the fact that we can and do always learn a new skill on ever trip. Close quarters sailing is an essential skill as is docking under power, anchoring in a tight anchorage, heavy weather sailing...


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## Sanduskysailor (Aug 1, 2008)

Take 5. You are right. Our sailboats are nothing more than motorboats with rags on sticks. Hey, if we never unplug our shore power cords there will be no risk to sailing at all.

Your suppositions are all wet. For the record I belong to a sailing club. No powerboats are allowed except the RC boat. Fairways are wide. No current. No surge. Dock spaces are wide with no poles. Some of our racing fleet sail into a dock every Wednesday night. Boats range from 23-40 feet. You can practice this skill on the water with a nav buoy an approaches from different wind directions. Most racers know to control the speed of their boat and come to a near stop. It is an essential skill in some starting maneuvers. 

I have also watched a guy get towed in by Towboat US and take out half a dock when the tow boat let him go. No guarantees that a tow won't cause you problems also.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

hmmmm, damage at the dock, wonder about the insurance company that had to pay out for a race recently, were a 15K rig t-boned a 10K rig at the start line! 

This is one of them, NO ONE WILL AGREE TO, what the answer should be. 

Can I sail in to my slip, pics show I can. Would I do it with lots of boats around in 40 knots fo breeze, if the motor will start, no I would not. The marina does ot allow it per say either. EVERYTHING one does has risk. So the question becomes, how do you lower the risk? yes practicing sailing up to a bouy away from the marina, sooner or later tho, one needs to do this IN the marina if that is your goal. You can do thing as I do, like have the motor running in idle so you can hit reverse or equal to stop you. If the wind gets goofy, you can lower/furl the sails and start to motor is that is more comfortable. 

At the end of the day, choose your risk factor, I'll choose mine. Hitting another boat, is probably like who has or has not hit bottom with your keel!

Marty


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

I started the "essential" thing and have read the responses with interest and some popcorn. So perhaps I should clarify my original statement. 

I do consider the skill of docking under sail an essential skill but perhaps not for the obvious reason. The boat handling skills involved in gauging speed and position, wind, drift, and the boat's reactions are IMO, essential. We can never predict all the situations where one or more of those skills will be needed. So I look for opportunities to practice, and generally avoid emergency situations when doing so (e.g., practicing a MOB drill uses many of the same skills and is best not practiced at night with a person in the water). As a rule, I like to know that I have many more options than calling SeaTow or using an engine. I play "what if" - what if SeaTow can't be raised, what if the engine won't start, what if anchoring outside the marina isn't an option? 

Of course no one would advocate reckless endangerment of another vessel when selecting practice conditions, but that also doesn't obviate all weather conditions as unsuitable. The experience and confidence gained by pushing past one's comfort zone are invaluable. I recommend trying it after carefully selecting conditions, thinking through the maneuver, and planning contingencies. 

Just look at the Boneheaded Moves thread and you can see where some of my experiments failed. But I learned and the experience sure has come in handy at times.


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## US27inKS (Feb 6, 2005)

I think it's funny the number of people who would never under any circumstances attempt to dock under sail, for practice or otherwise.

Here's a question from the sailing resume for the charter company in Florida I've used.



> Docked a boat of more than 34' under sail? Yes __ No __


I don't know about you guys, but I would hate for the first time docking under sail to be on an unfamiliar boat and with a bad engine. An unfamiliar boat is bad enough, engine that won't start is worse, first time docking under sail, no thanks.


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

*Fifty percent of seamanship happens fifty feet from the dock. J Fitzjerald *


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

blt2ski said:


> hmmmm, damage at the dock, wonder about the insurance company that had to pay out for a race recently, were a 15K rig t-boned a 10K rig at the start line!


Probably $0, since most boat policies have exclusions for racing. You might want to check your own policy.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

I can sail my boat into my slip. I have done it in an emergency where the engine shut down just as we were lined up coming in with headway. I have picked up mooring under sail...and sailed off them....thats no comparison.

No one here yet has satisfactorily explained why it is an* ESSENTIAL *skill

By some of you reasoning I think you should all learn to park your cars by coasting in in neutral into your parking spots. How ridiculous is that.

If my slip neighbor decided to sail into his slip with his 30,000 lb Hans Christian every time or even a lot...I would have a major problem with thay as would many of the fellow slipholders. Gee I am sorry Dave we were just practicing sailing into our slip cause we read some nimrod on Sailnet said its an essential sailing manuever and we arent real sailors if we cant do it. It just we had a minor 10 knot gust. We really didnt mean to cause &12,000 damage to your boat, the one across from ours and take out the water lines and the shore power lines on the pier. We will continue practicing till we get it right , run out of boats to hit, or sink ours.

Give me a break.

We are not talking about bringing a laser in here.

Dave


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

I think it is comical some of you think everyone needs to be able to sail into his/her own slip. 

Some slips it would be nearly impossible or just impossible to do so on a regular basis. Getting to my slip requires 5 90 degree turns within a distance of less than two hundred feet. There are rock jetties, piers, and boats on either side. In one area I would need to sail 100 feet stright into the prevailing 15-20 knot wind with no room to tack. I have seen experienced sailing instructors have problems docking while using the motor. There is no way I would risk sailing my boat into the dock, nor risk damaging the other boats in my marina. If my engine fails I will either sail out to sea and wait for a tow, or possibly sail into an area where I can anchor outside the harbor and wait for a tow. Some docks are not designed to sail into.

Should mention I single hand a lot and how the heck am I going to deal with the sails, the tiller, the dock lines, the sheets, maybe some canvas buckets, some warping lines, and also be prepared to start the engine just in case?


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## crstophr (Feb 15, 2012)

The less money you have the more essential it becomes. If you can pay someone to regularly inspect, maintain, and replace your engine then you're far less likely to have a failure requiring docking skills under sail. If you can afford boat towing insurance you at least have a backup plan when an engine fails.

It could also be essential if your means of communication is cut off for some reason. Radio failure and a dead cell phone for example.

If you need to sail on a tight budget with a cheap old "fixer-upper" boat the relative cost of paying for mechanics to do your maintenance plus extra towing insurance may for some be too much. It's not a valid assumption to believe everyone has towing available. Paying for a tow without insurance in this case could be 50-100% the cost of the boat. It could actually make more financial sense to scuttle the boat and buy another old one than pay to tow it home and then pay to repair or buy a new motor. That's when sailing onto the dock becomes essential to the wallet and happiness of someone who has a greatly reduced boating budget.

When my outboard failed I could have just kept sailing. While I was working on the motor at home I could have still gone sailing without it. I decided not to because I consider the motor an important safety and convenience factor even if it's not essential. 

Marina pricing does tend to keep us segregated. Folks in this situation won't usually be in the same marina with the $250k yachts. I'm in such a low rent Marina and am surrounded by boats in deteriorating condition. I watch people sail in and out of their slip and on and off the dock all the time. Some even have working motors but just choose to sail. Some have no motors at all. There are no marina rules prohibiting it. I'm constantly inspired by the skill of these sailors. Watching these folks do this casually is what motivated me to learn.

Each marina may have a different set of rules. We have to select them based on cost and whether or not we can live with those rules no matter which side of this debate you're on.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

TakeFive said:


> Probably $0, since most boat policies have exclusions for racing. You might want to check your own policy.


Actually, the policy covered the WHOLE thing except the deductable! ie BOAT US was BOTH boats insurance coverer! Sailboat racing and Predicted timelog races ARE covered under MOST policies! Including the one I have with state farm, and another company before that one. Now if you want to talke about hydroplane racings, volvo 70 or equal off shore, My policy will not cover that, but beer can etc. no issues. My policy would more than likely cover me sailing in, as well as motoring in if something haywire happened also.

marty


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> cause we read some nimrod on Sailnet said its an essential sailing manuever


Then we shall simply disagree. It's not that big a deal, one can live a lifetime and not need the skill. But I am *not* a nimrod, sir. A raving lunatic of an idiot is far more appropriate. I take great pride in my cluelessness.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

blt2ski said:


> Actually, the policy covered the WHOLE thing except the deductable! ie BOAT US was BOTH boats insurance coverer! Sailboat racing and Predicted timelog races ARE covered under MOST policies!


Yes, I think I was wrong about that. I mixed up my own boat's policy with the policy a local charter company used (which excluded racing accidents).

And speaking of charter companies:



US27inKS said:


> Here's a question from the sailing resume for the charter company in Florida I've used.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I chartered a boat and the engine failed, I would NEVER attempt to sail it into a slip. I'd call the charter company and seek instruction, and I would expect them to take me through a checklist of items ("did you reopen the fuel cutoff last time you shut down the motor?" etc....), and if that didn't fix it I'd expect them to hop into a powerboat and come fix it. In fact, now that I think of it, the one charter that I did had explicit instructions to call them and/or their designated towing company if anything went wrong, so I severely doubt that they would allow you to sail their boat into the dock.

In fact, if I owned a boat that was out for charter, I'd expect the management company to do that as part of their service. I certainly would not want some hotdog to try to sail my boat into a slip.

I really never expected to see so many people with such disregard for others' property. If you keep your boat in a boat club where it's customary to sail into the slip, then you've bought into the risk, and when someone plows into you, you asked for it. But please stay away from my marina.


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## US27inKS (Feb 6, 2005)

TakeFive said:


> If I chartered a boat and the engine failed, I would NEVER attempt to sail it into a slip. I'd call the charter company and seek instruction, and I would expect them to take me through a checklist of items ("did you reopen the fuel cutoff last time you shut down the motor?" etc....), and if that didn't fix it I'd expect them to hop into a powerboat and come fix it. In fact, now that I think of it, the one charter that I did had explicit instructions to call them and/or their designated towing company if anything went wrong, so I severely doubt that they would allow you to sail their boat into the dock.
> 
> In fact, if I owned a boat that was out for charter, I'd expect the management company to do that as part of their service. I certainly would not want some hotdog to try to sail my boat into a slip.


Well, there are a limited number of charter companies in south Florida. Trust me, I've looked. And of the 2-3 charter companies in south Florida, I know of only one that lets you take the boats across the Gulf Stream to the Bahamas. I don't know about you, but I'm not very excited about the prospects of waiting for at least half a day anchored in questionable holding for the charter company to arrive. And as you pointed out in your remarks about which marina you may choose to use, this is part of the risk accepted by the boat owners when their boat is placed in charter.

This would also be why the charter company makes you take a USCG captain with you on your first outing. Hot dogs need not apply.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I just checked the policies of the last four boats I've owned. Each of the companies, and they were all different insurance carriers, clearly stated in bold print under exclusions "Any participant in any organized race or regatta." Seemed fairly clear to me - if you're racing you're not covered - regardless of the type of boat. 

Many years ago, I was covering the US Powerboat Regatta in Havre de Grace, Maryland. In was in my boat in an area known as the "infield," which I later discovered can be among the most dangerous locations to be during a race. I was photographing the race and writing about it in my weekly column for the Washington Post and thought my ordinary boat insurance would cover me - WRONG! After several close encounters with out of control hydros and Jersey Skiffs, I decided this assignment was just a bit too dangerous and at the first opportunity I motored out of the area, loaded the boat on the trailer and went home. I didn't know that I wasn't covered until I later talked with my insurance agent from Erie Insurance Exchange. Despite the fact that I was not actually engaged in the race itself, as a working reporter, I was technically considered part of the race, therefore, excluding myself, passengers and boat from any coverage. Bummer - especially when you discover this after the fact.

For those folks that believe they're covered because they're in a sailboat race, you may want to take a close look at the fine print, or better yet, contact your insurance agent. You may be in for a rude awakening. 

Cheers,

Gary


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Just thought about something. Take a good look at Boot Key Harbor, then think about sailing into a slip, or even sailing off or on the mooring ball here.










Cheers,

Gary


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

My friend(sabreman) that phrase was reserved for others.....not for you...besides I already have met you and knw you are a lunatic..your wife told me that. (Smile)

Dave


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> Take a good look at Boot Key Harbor, then think about sailing into a slip, or even sailing off or on the mooring ball here.


Woof. Difficult, but not impossible. In a laser or similar, any 12 year old could do it. In my boat...... hmmm.. interesting problem... let's see ...

The fingers aren't too bad, directionally. The angle is good for sailing - exiting is far easier than docking. Certainly, there won't be much wind in there due to ghosting by the buildings so too much speed shouldn't be a problem. Nor is current a problem. The leward slips are easy - I'd hug the windward (right), bleeding speed and letting sideslip drive me to leeward. There don't appear to be slips per se, so it would be port side of the boat to the dock. Windward (right side) slips are harder, especially the ones at the head of the finger. Same tactic, but I'd keep up a little more speed and get a line on a piling fast.

I think that coming off one of these buoys is harder in this situation because there is almost no room to fall off. But I'd use an old dinghy tactic and lead a mooring line to a stern cleat, then unfurl the jib and off I go downwind without worrying about falling off and sliding into another boat before I had enough way. Picking up a mooring would probably be for me the biggest challenge because there is only one shot to do it. I'd approach headed downwind under jib alone and then do a U turn to pickup. My biggest worry would be that most sloops require something a boat length to turn so it would be tight.

I'd give it a couple passes then commit. Maybe anchor to windward and kedge downwind. I saw a Chesapeake Bay waterman do that once bringing his DOA skiff *laterally and to windward* of an oyster bar so that I could get a line to him for a tow. One of the most amazing things that I've seen on the water (next to Vicky lassoing a piling with a single throw in front of the crowd at Ego Alley and Pusser's in Annapolis on a summer evening - *THAT* was amazing)


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I've sailed into a slip before, on a friends 32' Endeavor, with perfect light winds and a crew of 4 experienced sailors on the Rhode River. Piece of cake! The engine wasn't working when we left the dock the day before.
If I had to do it alone? Might not have been so pretty.
We can sail on and off our mooring in good weather but generally use the engine.
If there was bad weather for sailing in and the engine did not work there is always the anchor. Sometimes you have to wait it out.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I'm not to worried about my policy frankly, I have one or two races a year, I NEED to show and turn in a cert of insurance to the YC that holds the race. SO I think that would get the ear of the insurance agent really fast, really quick if I was doing something against the policy. Boat US is one of many that allow sailboat racing doing locl beer cans, along with predicted log racing. One needs to look in the fine print to see that it is there, vs see that it is NOT there. 

Can somebody make that picture a bit narrower! It is three freekin screens wide!

Marty


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Photo fixed!


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

crstophr said:


> The less money you have the more essential it becomes. If you can pay someone to regularly inspect, maintain, and replace your engine then you're far less likely to have a failure requiring docking skills under sail. If you can afford boat towing insurance you at least have a backup plan when an engine fails.
> 
> It could also be essential if your means of communication is cut off for some reason. Radio failure and a dead cell phone for example.
> 
> ...


I don't have much money so I learned how to work on my 30 year old 20 hp inboard yanmar diesel. Has not failed me yet and it was pretty abused when I got it- stalled going into the dock on my first sail when I hit revese, but runs like a kitten now after some good maintenace.

I have a towing policy in case of engine failure but also in case of a major rig failure like a demasting. A tow off shore could cost me in the 10s or thousands of dollars. Towing insurace is relatively cheap.

As far as lack of radio, there are other signaling methods besides the radio (flags, mirror, whistle, horn). I once gave another sailboat a tow to his slip when his engine failed. He waved me down. He could not sail into his slip as there was no wind- totally calm.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Sabreman, I would love to be there with a video camera when you attempt that in Boot Key. BTW, Boot Key, as anyone that has ever been there will tell you, can be pretty windy and rough. The buildings are nearly all one story, thus very little protection from the winds. The mooring balls are so tight that you wonder why boats are not slamming into boats during a tidal change or wind shift, the the fairways of the marinas are really tight - kinda like Annapolis Harbor.

Good Luck,

Gary


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

Sabreman said:


> Woof. Difficult, but not impossible. In my boat...... hmmm.. interesting problem... let's see ...
> 
> The fingers aren't too bad, directionally. The angle is good for sailing - exiting is far easier than docking. Certainly, there won't be much wind in there due to ghosting by the buildings so too much speed shouldn't be a problem. Nor is current a problem. The leward slips are easy - I'd hug the windward (right), bleeding speed and letting sideslip drive me to leeward. There don't appear to be slips per se, so it would be port side of the boat to the dock. Windward (right side) slips are harder, especially the ones at the head of the finger. Same tactic, but I'd keep up a little more speed and get a line on a piling fast.
> 
> ...


Can you do this single handing?


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## arknoah (Oct 31, 2010)

My only time sailing into my slip (almost) was when I broke the run switch on my outboard, and my wife and I had to sail into the marina and almost to the slip -- but we couldn't make the turn into the fairway and had to paddle as noted in yet another sailing blog entry:

Get My Boat Back in the Slip Without an Engine? You Betcha! | ilyasadventures

It wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be even for an inexperienced sailor, and if we happened to be at the end of a dock, we would have been home free. One thing for certain is that our fairways are narrow enough that we would need to be exceedingly careful to sail all the way out and in on a regular basis.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Practice, practice, practice? Let's be serious!
Sailing an 84' passenger carrying schooner 2 or 3 trips per day; practicing sailing to the dock is not something you do. Can it be done? Of course, and I did it *when I had to* with 40 passengers, very little wind and too much current to wait for a tow (they were called). Any dock, the easiest dock! Definitely a tow from there to *our* dock.
If one has the confidence and skills (you will know when you do) then there is no need to show off or practice. Racers are by nature show offs, not that I'm criticizing, mind you, and in theory they are a crew who works fairly well together, but still, why?
As for the anchorage scenario, let's be a wee bit serious here.
If your anchor is dislodged by a dragging boat (most likely he's alongside you doing damage, dragging both of you into someone else), but if not, you've still got all that tackle down; how are you going to sail? No engine to power up on it to pull it, in that much wind (you certainly can't sail up on your anchor in a crowded anchorage)? So now you are dragging, possibly dislodging others' anchors; you are going to hoist sail? I kinda think you've not thought your scenario; it's a lose, lose situation that no amount of practice, skill or forethought can help. If this happens you are going to have to deal with it in real time, period.
If any of you doubt that you have the skill to sail into the slip, then keep sailing with lots of room around you and get a good feel for your boat. One day, if Murphy has his way, you will be forced to sail to to a dock. Don't think about your slip, just find an easy, long and open dock and get your boat, crew and self there safely.
We often sail our boat on and off the anchor here in the West Indies. But if there are ANY other boats anywhere near us, the engine is running, even if it never goes in gear. I sooner sink my boat before I'd do damage to anyone's else's boat.
Those who sail without an engine, again why? Even a small electric motor can save your boat or someone else's from unnecessary damage. For those on a very limited budget, at $120.00 a year ($10.00 a month) for emergency towing, really!!!!
If you're going to sail into a slip near me, I won't think you're a great sailor, I won't have a beer with you or even drink mine with you. I'll think you a fool and a menace.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

Agree with above. A good seamen/women reduces risks. And a major way is not to take any unecessary chances, and keeping all your equipment in good working order.

Sure sailing a small light weight boat into a slip may be somthing you can do on a daily basis. have a problem, just kick off the obsticle with your foot. A bigger boat forget about it, you are only endagering your crew, your boat, and others' boats.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

I think that capta said it accurately - do it when you have to but hedge your bets. But it's good to know that you *could*. Again, the variations are infinite and I certainly would not attempt every one of them nor would I do it in every type boat. I'm not *that* crazy.

Those on SailNet who know me understand that I'm not foolhardy or a show-off (ok, maybe a little) or would risk anyone's vessel. I just think that it's a good skill to have in one's back pocket. It's not like I sail around my marina without an engine for kicks....



> Can you do this single handing?


In anything with a sail up to 22', sure. In a laser, I'd try it standing up just for fun. Did pretty much what I described in a GP 14. Exhausting but fun.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I've argued against doing this, but I can also see the benefit of doing a "practice run" into the gas dock, T-end, or mooring ball when conditions are favorable. It is a good skill to have.

However, I think doing it every time with traffic and other boats around is a little reckless for any boat over a thousand lbs or so displacement (i.e., too large to easily paddle out of trouble).


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

Sabreman said:


> I think that capta said it accurately - do it when you have to but hedge your bets. But it's good to know that you *could*. Again, the variations are infinite and I certainly would not attempt every one of them nor would I do it in every type boat. I'm not *that* crazy.


Maybe your quote should be "probably could". Nothing is 100%.


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## Dick6969 (Mar 4, 2012)

When I first started sailing at about 14 years old with my dad, he never had a motor on any of his boats. So it is good to know how to do it all with out a motor. But the motor sure makes it easy...


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