# Buying a used Moorings Boat



## Sharlyn (Apr 23, 2001)

I''ve heard mixed things about buying a used charter boat but heard there can be great deals out there especially if done through the current owner instead of the broker. Does anyone know if there is a listing of Moorings boat owners with their boats for sale? I''ve tried emailing the sailnet/mog list but my emails just cancel back. Any info would be great.

thanks,
Sharlyn


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I have two friends who bought ex-charter boats. They both got amazing deals through a dealer. Both boats were early 90s. The downside for both was they had a lot of wear. You get a modern boat with 20 years of use, not a bad thing. BUT, charter boats are fitted out for the charter trade, furling mainsails are common, shoal draft, and extra cabins. Sometimes you can get lots of equipment with them if you can keep it from getting stolen in the transfer. You also have a boat that is fitted out in Euro equipment, 230V AC, metric chain and windlass, etc. You will have a problem with lots of stuff like fuel filters and pumps that are not available in the US.

Gene


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## hamiam (Dec 15, 2000)

my only comment is that you need to realize that charter boats are used on average 30+ weeks a year often by inexperienced and uncaring charters. As such, they receive many, many times the use of, say, a boat used on the weekends and for a few week-long vacations in the NorthEast. Its not an "amazing deal" to buy a boat that is chronlogically 10 years old but, in reality, much older due to excessive useage.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I have been around quite a few ex-charter boat deals, and watched the fix up that was required. I personally have never seen one that was a good deal, no less a great deal. While you can buy a used ex-charter boats for lower price than a similar model non-charter boat, the ex-charter boats are really trashed when they come out of charter. By the time you get done replacing some combination of worn out or poorly specified sails, standing rigging, deck hardware, upholstery, electronics, galley and head fixtures, perhaps doing an engine rebuild or replacement, and cleaning up the aesthetics only to end up with a boat that will always have a lower resale value because they were a charter boat, you are way in the hole over buying a good, clean well maintained never been chartered boat. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I think it depends on where you are getting this charter boat from, both location and company. If it is from the carribean then probably not a good deal as they get used and abused the most. Some companies also tend to maintain their boats better than others. I have seen some real nice former charter boats from florida and the chesapeake area that really appeared in every bit as good of shape as a privately owned boat. Often these boats tend to just get motored around a lot and used as a floating condo. Really it just depends on the specific boat. Of course charter boats in decent shape will come at a little higher price. As far as finding one just look at yachtworld.com for instance, most charter companies also have a brokerage. Charter boats from the moorings probably wouldn''t be my first choice cause I think that is the largest most used charter comapany there is. Personally I would just search for the boat you want, if a charter company happens to have it then take a look maybe you will like it or maybe not. Unless it is some sort of rare boat that a charter company just happened to pick up then it is probably just as easy to find a good deal anywhere.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Ok, I''ll bite at this one and it can be jump all over Jim day... I believe that if a charter company has a boat you really like and at a price you find attractive and (Let me make sure this step isn''t missed) You have a good survey done and it comes back clean. You might have found your dream boat.. Go for it....


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I am sure you have one boat in mind. Check all over and you might find the same type somewhere else for about the same money but in much better condition. 

If you just want to get a good deal from a charter no matter what boat, thinking that the charter boats in general are such great deals, than you will loose. 

I have seen ( like many others ) how charter boats get misstreated, I would highly warn you. Especially with Moorings boats. Smaller Charters like explained above might have a better grip on their charter guests. But the easier it is to charter a boat, the worsed are their boats. If it takes a gold american express card to qualify for the boat, you will need a lot of hard earned cash to get the same boat back to live after only a few years in the hard charter fleet. 

Thorsten


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## pgoodman (Dec 2, 2000)

In 1995 I bought a 1991 Moorings 38 as it aged out of the Carribean charter fleet. I had chartered the boat in several places with the Moorings and it the M38 worked for us. 

I bought it via the Moorings brokerage found in the back of most sail magazines. Today it appraises at more than I paid for it. (No, I don''t really believe it either, but it''s not for sale and we''ll never really know what someone would pay for it.)

I had the opportunity to look at 6 Moorings 38 boats for sale in Ft. Lauderdale. Yes, charter boats are used hard, but unless there is structural damage (which is easily found by you and certainly by the surveyor), the boat still has tremendous value over what you pay for a new one. At the time I paid 1/3 of the price it took to buy a similar boat and put it into the Moorings fleet. And it came complete with all the cruising stuff Moorings puts on the boats, most significant of which was two large anchors, 5 oversized winches (for those careless charterers), safety equipment, life jackets, etc. Some charter stuff aboard was at the end of it''s useful life.

I think the fact that a charter boat is used and maintained in working order is a positive thing. A seldom-used boat sits in one place and falls apart one screw at a time. Did that maintenance in some remote jungle create some oddball solutions, yes, but in the end it all still works. 

Problems? Nothing major. I have had no major problems with mechanical systems. Engine (Yanmar), with 3000+ hours, is still purring. Cabin cushions are still original. Interior mechanical (lights, pumps, water heater, etc) all "as-was" from Moorings. Interior was fine except for minor dings. 

Small problems? Hey, it''s a boat. And all 1990''s Beneteau''s had falling vinyl headliners, which mine did also. 
I''ve replaced the battery charger (1991 was primitive technology for battery chargers)and added holding tanks, Lectrasan and A/C. 


If you choose carefully this is an excellant way to buy more boat.


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## pgoodman (Dec 2, 2000)

Sorry, I didn''t finish my train of thought ;-).

If the charter company is one of the owner lease type (ie: Moorings), then you buy the boat and negotiate price with the individual who owns the boat, not Moorings. 

Think about the situation from the owner''s standpoint.... for over four years you have owned a boat, used it occasionally in some exotic locale, and paid zero for it after the down payment. Mortgage payments come out of revenue from charters, net to the owner being close to zero plus some tax breaks. All of a sudden, Moorings (or whomever, I''m not picking on them specifically) kicks it out of the fleet. It''s yours to pay for from now on. Money out of your pocket, suddenly. For a boat that isn''t where you live. Dock fees. Many owners will simply want to get out from under the mortgage, which tends to set the neighborhood of the price he will accept on the boat. You can easily calculate the balance on the mortgage to see if the owner is making a monetary sale or an emotional one. Find the guy making a monetary sale. 

Anyway, my two cents...


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

And even at that, an asking price based on the balance on the owner''s loan often results in price being way more than the boat is worth when you factor in the repairs that it takes to put the boat back into good repair. Remember that the first few years of a loan pays very little principle compared to the depreciation and wear and tear on a boat that has been in the charter trade.

Jeff


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## sailongrenada (Apr 22, 2015)

I purchased in April 2012 a Moorings boat. The boat had a year left of Charter contract in the Footloose fleet in Tortola. I watched the boat age before my eyes in the 10 months of charter service. During this time I took the boat out and really got to know the BVI region. After the boat was released from Charter I took the boat to St Martin where I needed to 
perform retrofitting i.e new windlass motor, new batteries, new freezer, repair refrigerator,
. Subsequently took the boat down island hoping to Grenada for 2014 hurricane season. 
Bottom line I feel that I got a good deal for a well equipped heavily used boat. Needed to put into it another $10,000 to bring it to my standards of sailing in the eastern Caribbean.


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## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

If you were buying a used car would you go to Hertz or Avis or a private buyer?


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

I've purchased 2 cars from rental car companies... put over 100,000 miles on both, bought them about 4-5k less than book value, got good finance rates on them both. Of course I was ALSO beating the car to death and driving 140 miles a day commuting over the highway. So not sure your analogy provided the proper amount of discouragement in my eyes.


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## Subaqua (Jul 14, 2013)

Jeff_H said:


> And even at that, an asking price based on the balance on the owner''s loan often results in price being way more than the boat is worth _when you factor in the repairs that it takes to put the boat back into good repair_. Remember that the first few years of a loan pays very little principle compared to the depreciation and wear and tear on a boat that has been in the charter trade.
> Jeff


But that all depends on the charter company and their phase out criteria. A phased out Moorings charter boat should have $0 cost to bring it to good repair.

As a Moorings owner, I follow these threads that mention charter, and especially Moorings, pretty closely. You cannot lump all the charter companies into one, just like you can hardly lump all the Moorings bases into one. Even among the Moorings bases you will see great differences in total charter time of their boats, so there will be great differences in engine hours, sail hours, etc. And likewise, the bases will maintain their boats to some differences.. as a base that has quick turn arounds, may not have quite the time needed to do things right when should be done... but, not to worry, that's where with a good phase out program, survey, squeeky wheel, etc., all those things should be addressed.

Another thing I get a kick out of is what perceptions people have of how the Moorings charter boats are equipped. I don't know what year you're talking about, but the boats I see in the fleet are setup pretty darn good. Nowadays not unusual to find electric heads, solar panels, gensets, aircon, led lighting, nice electronics, good mechanicals, etc, etc.


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## sailongrenada (Apr 22, 2015)

I want to add some things here. Firstly I love my Beneteau Cyclades 51.5 I got for a darn good price by dealing personally with the owner.I mean 45 K less than the asking price. So whatever I spent made it worth it plus I got a darn good boat in the eastern Caribb without having to cross the thorny patch. Im just a little bit put off from he phase ot process where I felt like they went shopping on my boat and took everything they needed for other boats. I.E. Windlass was working fine when I gave them the boat for the phase out where they converted my bow two cabins into a huge one captains quarters. When I took delivery the windlass motor was gone and did not see it darn it till I got to Sr Martin. Lesson learned from that one. Overall I would buy another one soon I hope from Moorings used boats.


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## soarhead (Sep 6, 2015)

People love to put down the idea of buying an ex charter boat. Ironically, most who do have never had the experience.

One thing I will say in my experience of over 40 years of sailing and owning boats is beware of the "owner maintainer". Nowadays, so many more people with much less experience are sailing and I have seen some beautiful boats literally destroyed, not by neglectful sailing but rather ignorant owner maintenance practices. ( Something not taught at sailing schools ) With a young charter boat, typically, nobody has moved deck hardware, blindlessly drilling holes into a cored deck. Nobody has added additional "un fused" electronics by simply splicing into any available power source. Nobody has added thru hull valves purchased from the plumbing department at Home Depot. Oil changes are done regularly, fuel does not sit stagnant for years on end, the list goes on. 

With a relatively young charter boat, it has typically not been "modified by amateurs" since leaving the factory. This gives you a clean slate boat, provided she surveys well. My biggest issues with yacht ownership have been fixing other people's attempts at either upgrades or ignorant maintenance practices.

As with any purchase, know what to look for, know how to choose a proper surveyor and be prepared to walk away. To simply state that buying an ex charter boat is a bad idea is painting with a very big brush and generally, holds no merit.


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