# 2 stroke motors illegal?



## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

I was following up on the porta bote thread by contacting them with some questions.
An unsolicited comment from portabote was this:

"We're getting reports from owners with 2 cycle outboards that, suddenly they're getting ticketed. It's now illegal in all States to use a 2 cycle outboard under 18 hp. Good luck."

2 strokes under 18hp are illegal to USE in all states??
This came along with a sales pitch for their 6hp 4 stroke.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd imagine that legislation is probably in the works to make two-stroke outboards illegal, but I don't believe that they are currently illegal for USE in most states... There are just too many of them out there ATM for that to happen any time soon. 

They are probably fairly difficult to find for sale NEW, and there are probably some serious restrictions on the sale of new two-stroke outboards, as a precursor to banning the noisy, stinky, nasty engines.

I do know that some protected waters, like in some parks or nature reservations, the use of a two-stroke outboard is illegal, but don't know of any states, outside of possibly California, with its draconian (in a good sort of way) emissions standards, that have banned them completely.


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## Jotun (May 4, 2006)

Alas, I will miss the two-stroke. It even smells good....


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

> "We're getting reports from owners with 2 cycle outboards that, suddenly they're getting ticketed. It's now illegal in all States to use a 2 cycle outboard under 18 hp. Good luck."


 That's absurd and completely false. In my mind, statements like that undermine the credibility of Portaboat's approach to marketing - making me question their honesty and/or competence.

After 10 years of faithful service, our tender's little 2-stroke just refuses to give any reason for replacement. Aside from California and some inland waterways, I don't think 2 strokes will be banned along coastal areas of the Atlantic anytime soon.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

In my mind, statements like that undermine the credibility of Portaboat's approach to marketing - making me question their honesty and/or competence. 

Exactly. I was thinking they hired conky joe as their marketing guru


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

LOL.... good one Xort


xort said:


> In my mind, statements like that undermine the credibility of Portaboat's approach to marketing - making me question their honesty and/or competence.
> 
> Exactly. I was thinking they hired conky joe as their marketing guru


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## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

In the EU, the retail sale of new 2 stroke outboards is now illegal. Old ones can be used until they fall apart and the private sale of second hand machines is still allowed. 

There was quite a rush on, buying up the remaining 2 stroke stock, since stored well they last forever and weigh less and were cheaper than their 4 stroke brothers.

However, the outboard manufacturers, I read, have released a series of new 4 stroke designs that now look better buys.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

The states are becoming as EU is mentioned by idiens. It is in many place, A for one, hard or impossible to buy 2 stroke motors motors in anything. that includes outboards, yard equipment etc. Due to more stringent pollution requirements. 

I have a couple of Honda 4 stroke weedeaters, Frankly, I prefer them over the high reving 2 strokes I have used in over the last 25+ yrs in the landscape maintenance biz. On the other hand, the fellows from Mexico that work for me, do not like them, as they do not rev high enough in their minds!

Marty


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I do not believe 2 strokes have actually been outlawed in the USA. (Except in local spots as noted above).The pollution standards have been tightened on new motor manufacturing...effectively banning most 2 stroke manufacturing. But I have heard of some new 2 stroke design technology that actually makes them clean enough to meet regs. Will do some research as this is all from memory.

EDIT...apparently I do not yet have Alzheimer's! Here's the statement from California...
*Several two-stroke direct injection engines have been available on the market. These engines offer consumers improved fuel economy, lower oil consumption, and improved idle performance while significantly reducing pollution and maintaining the performance characteristics of traditional two-strokes.
*Two strokes are not banned even in California...here's the link:
http://www.dbw.ca.gov/Environmental/TwoStroke/TSFAQ.aspx

The Evinrude E-tec line of 2 stroke engines apparently complies with all worldwide standards presently enacted.
http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/Media.Center/Press.Releases/1/2006.02.16_02.htm
But they are much higher horsepower than we use for our dinghy's. Perhaps Macgregor owners will be interested!


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## SVCetacea (Oct 14, 2007)

xort said:


> 2 strokes under 18hp are illegal to USE in all states??
> This came along with a sales pitch for their 6hp 4 stroke.


Sounds like salesman FUD to me. 
Very unlikely to have *existing* equipment outlawed.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Nah, all that proves is that it hasn't affected your memory about two-stroke outboards yet.  


camaraderie said:


> ...EDIT...apparently I do not yet have Alzheimer's! Here's the statement from California...
> *Several two-stroke direct injection engines have been available on the market. These engines offer consumers improved fuel economy, lower oil consumption, and improved idle performance while significantly reducing pollution and maintaining the performance characteristics of traditional two-strokes.*


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Cam,

You are correct in that some 2 strokes do meet the new regs. BUT< in order to do so, you need the latest and greatest oil in the machine you are using. As otherwise, it will spew out just as many nasty's as the old ones. I have a blower and a newer 2 stroke weedeater with the new technologiy motors, and they do not kick out ANY blue smoke what so ever! One thing that does seem to be happening tho, is ALL makes and types of motors, are having to be higher in HP to burn the fuel, in whatever fashion is being used, to meet the emissions requirements right now. 

Like a lot of things tho, sometimes the laws get passed/enacted quicker than technology can move in some cases. Where a law passes, then certain engine manufactures have to try and meet these rules, unfortunately, they end up not being able to test as thoroughly as they want, and sub par products hit the market, and we as consumers have issues with those items, then you have recalls, folks complaining about X brand of what ever on forums like this..........

Marty


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

Remember, the quote was...

"It's now illegal in all States to use a 2 cycle outboard under 18 hp."


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## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

Does anyone make a two stroke outboard under 18 hp that meets the regulations quoted in the Evinrude link?


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## HoffaLives (Feb 19, 2007)

it's a shame it takes legislation to make manufacturers step up to the plate. 25-30% of fuel goes unburned through a two-stroke, and they should have gone the way of the steam engine a long time ago.
i did a mag article on them a while back, and i seem to remember 2006 was the beginning of when they were going to be shut down by the us feds but i think it was the sale of new, old style 2 strokes, not the use of them. there are tens of millions of fishermen out there who vote, and they all have two strokes, so it will take a generation for them to disappear. unfortunately they are well made and tend to last forever.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

I suppose we can all be true sailors, toss our 2 strokes overboard and use sailing dinghys with auxiliery oars.


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## Andyman (Jul 20, 2007)

Jotun said:


> Alas, I will miss the two-stroke. It even smells good....


1978 Evinrude 2 Stroke, 6hp. Smells so good I'll keep it after it dies...like that will ever happen!


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

The reason 2 strokes didn't go the way of the steam engine is that it is a buyers market, global warming be damned. 
You get more HP for less weight, so what if fuel consumption sucks - Get more NOW.
America baby!

now then having said that I don't own one - not even a weed wacker.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

My 2-stroke weedwacker, leaf blower and outboard aren't very green, but neither is my wallet at this point to replace them all.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

TrueBlue said:


> I suppose we can all be true sailors, toss our 2 strokes overboard and use sailing dinghys with auxiliery oars.


Aye lad, that's what we be usin'. Arrr!


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Andyman said:


> 1978 Evinrude 2 Stroke, 6hp. Smells so good I'll keep it after it dies...like that will ever happen!


How about a 1958 Johnson 3hp 2 stroke. Still starts 1st or 2nd pull everytime and runs like a top.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

HoffaLives said:


> unfortunately they are well made and tend to last forever.


So you cheer for the poorly made 20 year old automobile?


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

No way they will have outlawed the use of a two-cycle motor, Sale of them maybe, but not use.

The two-cycle motor is a much-maligned bit of machinery. They make superb motors, light, cheaper, and easy to maintain. I have one in a motorcycle, an MZ 301, and it is supremely reliable.

Can someone tell me what a 4-cycle mortor does with the used oil?

Does it all get re-cycled, or is some burned?


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## bushrat (Aug 24, 2007)

I'm sure I read somewhere that Canada will eventualy phase out the sale but not the use, that was however, on the last Liberal governments watch. I don't know if the Conservatives have a different plan. Being in the marina business a short time ago, I felt that large heavy 4 strokes were not practical on some of the smaller aluminum boats around here so a lot of folks have stayed with the lighter and cheaper 2 strokes. 2strokes were way over priced before the new 4's came out. Some saw it as finally a break on price for the motors they needed.


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