# Caliber 40 LRC and Sabre 402



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

I believe that both vessels are a capable ocean voyager. I would greatly appreciate if you can comments on their ability in turns of 

1. Ability to sail close hull
2. Light wind
3. Sea motion comfort
4. Reported problem due to manufacture and design faults.

Every made and design have compromises on the paper. However, if they hold up in the real world, I will not worry about it. TIA.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The Sabre 402 isn't designed as a bluewater cruiser, while the Caliber 40 LRC definitely was purposely designed as such. The Sabre can probably point higher and does better in light winds. The Caliber is probably more seakindly.


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

sabre can be made in to a decent voyager...and it sails very well, even in light winds..and can point higher than the LRC..

Sabre will be short on all tankage and storage for most long voyages. It has a less comfortable motion in large seas than the caliber, not sure if it is the keel or the weight, but I found that the Sabre bobs a bit in heavy seas...the LRC just shoulders through on a straight line

The Sabre to me is much more comfortable at the dock and most are "light and airy" compared to the LRC...but the LRC has the Sabre beat on seaworthiness in general

Both are well made boats, just different purposes. Neither have a host of inherent problems, quite the opposite...but I would speak with and hire the surveyor who knows voyaging boats, were I in your position - wanting to cross oceans...

I have owned the Sabre and only crewed on the LRC...so I may be a tad partial to the Sabre...but you will need to do quite a bit of upgrading to the Sabre to get what the LRC comes with..


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## sck5 (Aug 20, 2007)

Sabres are beautiful boats. I looked at several when I was boat shopping but because I wanted to do ocean passages I got a Caliber.


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## AlanGSYS (Aug 11, 2010)

All good posts with valid comments. But think about the day you want to sell the boat. I think the Sabre will sell more quickly than the Caliber when you are ready to move on.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> I think the Sabre will sell more quickly ... when you are ready to move on.


I hope so! 

A check of Sabre 38 prices shows that selling prices are at or above what I paid. Sabre hold their value very, very well. When we sold our 28, we "lost" $10k over 15 years.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

2 different boats for two different purposes. Both excellant builds and reputations. You wont have any trouble selling either. Notice there are very few Calibers for sale ever. Both 40s are on our short list. Sabre better light air performance and quicker overall. Cant go wrong with a well maintained Sabre or Caliber

Dave


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## lawdawg (Oct 12, 2010)

I would greatly appreciate some more thoughts on the comments about the seaworthiness of the Sabre as far as ocean passages go. I started looking at Island Packet 35's (the same sort of high displacement design thinking as the caliber), but then found a Sabre 42 for about the same price that is very well equipped. By going up in size I was able to get more of the storage and tankage that came in the smaller IP, but also feel that I am getting a boat that sails much better. I just helped take an IP42 from West Florida to the Bahamas last week and there was definitely a clear shortage of any light wind performance and the iron genoa was cranked up much more than I would be happy with. 
kd3pc- you commented that the Sabre would need much more upgrading to be capable of ocean passages, versus what the Caliber comes with. Do you think you could expand on this a bit?
Sailingdog- you stated that the Sabre isn't designed as a blue-water cruiser, do you think you could add a few more comments?
While I know that the Sabre isn't built with the same full keel, heavy displacement philosophy, I am still under the impression that it will make a good boat to not only enjoy cruising the caribbean with, but to also head to the Pacific in. Am I wrong in this assessment?
Thank you for your thoughts...
Drew


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## sailor7885 (Mar 8, 2010)

lawdawg:

Did you ever get a reply on the blue water capabilities of the Sabre 402? I am looking to buy one and would appreciate sharing thoughts on that.

Feel free to call 847-942-9400


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

I know this is an older thread but I am responding to help with future searches. I can tell you that the light wind performance of the Caliber 40LRC is comparable to a mid 80s Ericson 34 or 35. The pointing ability is nearly comparable to a Sabre 402 with a wing keel although the sabre will be a little faster at the same angle.

The interior comfort we believe is much better in the Caliber because of the Pullman berth. The Sabre has a conventional layout where you have to climb out of bed across your pillow assuming your pillow has not already hit the sole. Although it can be argued that having to crawl over a body in the Pullman berth is also bad. We have no problem with it after nearly 3 years living aboard.

For off shore work, the Caliber will have better motion comfort as it has a better entry while the Sabre has a wide rear end that can cause some issues off the wind. The Caliber was designed for off shore work. The Sabre not so much. The Caliber has a skeg hung rudder, reinforced bow section and leading edge of the keel. The Caliber also has collision bulkheads that make it a safer passage-maker. The bow under the anchor locker is the holding tank which can sustain a hole without flooding the boat. All water and fuel tankage is built into the hull and is redundant. You can hole any of the areas below the tops of the tanks and not flood the boat and also not affect the sailability or performance of the boat. The fuel capacity is 210 gallons. That is a 1,400nm range. Water capacity is 175 and because of the built in tanks there is lots of room for a watermaker.

A perceived vulnerability of the Caliber is the encapsulated keel. Fears of damaging the outer skin and water intrusion have been addressed by doubling the thickness of the outer skin and also creating a collision zone in the forward area of the keel that does not easily perforate the area where the ballast is located. IOW, the ballast does not start until about a foot back from the leading edge of the keel.

There is also a rudder dam that rises above the WL that prevents flooding should your rudder packing gland fail.

A safety feature that we and our dog love is the conventional step/rise 90° companionway steps. You enter the cabin facing forward.

One last point in favor of the Caliber being a better off-shore boat would be the cutter rig. We love being able to reef the genny and put out the stay-sail from the cockpit. All lines are led to the cockpit standard from the factory. Redundant heads is also nice if you should have a potty failure. Ours has an electric Jabsco head that has performed perfectly for nearly 3 years. Our second head is a low maintenance, low failure Lavac.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

As I stated a few years ago you cant go wrong with either boat. Cailbers are fine boats made for ocean passages and have certain advantages such as tankage, the water tight compartments a great build quality. 

I ejnjoy Tims posts and he is very knowledgeable and would be a great resource for the Calibers. His boat looks like a beauty 

I would have to disagree with Tim in that a Sabre 402 like other Sabres is a real performance sailor and will do substantially better in not only light air but also pointing ability. The PHRF ratings are not close ( 138 compared to 84) as just one of the measures. The Sabres have jib tracks against the coachroofs and also on their rails and point substantially higher. Their wing keel or fin keel and large rudder screams performance. Cailbers has the advantage of the greater varied sail plan for deep weather with the rig and two headsails. I have found the Sabres wide uncluttered gunwhales eaiser to walk forward on. Caliber has a great anchor locker. Caliber 21,000 lbs vrs Sabre 19,500 lbs. Sabre a little beamier by 6 inches. Sail area of the Caliber ( 100%)= 729 Sail area of the Sabre (100%) = 810, 12% more. 

Sabre 402 was sailing Cruiser of the year 1997.

In terms of the liveaboard space it all depends what you seek. Both are great setups.

I personally do not like Pullman berths and crawling over by wife. I also have yet to find any Pullman berth you can stretch out in like you can in a V berth. To me the need for the second head doesnt exhist and I would rather have the added space in my living area like the salon. Sabres interiors are richly wood designs with warm teak or cherry.Both have great ventilation. The Sabre has a table in the middle of the sette accessable on both ends. The Cailiber has a fold down table so the cabin appears more open, but you can get trapped behind the table if working there or eating when down.
Caliber has side facing Nav station, while Sabres is foreward facing. Sabre galley is great for passage making as you are enclosed for saftey. Caliber isnt bad either. Sabre reefer opens from the fromt or top while Caliber is a top loader only.

Cockpits are both very comfortable and safe. Both well thought out.

We have an example of both of these in our club and I have a friend who has a 402 WK which I have raced on and she is quite the powerhouse in the races. Skeg protected rudder can be an advantage.

This would be a tough choice as they are both great boats. For me I pick performance, however the Caliber is not a slug or poor performer, its tha the Sabre is just above most others in this size boat. I keep looking at both these boats also as my last boat. You cant go wrong either way


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

Thanks, Tim- I was just about to ask about all that!

Ray


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

Good info Chef. I would agree that around the cans the Sabre would significantly pull away upwind on a Caliber. Although the chainplate spacing may not be that much different. The caliber has a narrower beam by about 8" with the chainplates midway between the cabin and toe rail. I think the keel configuration is a bigger factor in their pointing abilities.

It would be interesting to see how these would perform head to head in a significant seaway.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Keel and the deep rudder differences, plus the sail area is 12% more. The Sabres I have found are really racer cruisers.

I was fortunate enough to be on a Sabre 425 on 1500 about 8 years ago. They are thoroughbred performance cruisers. The speed of the Caliber might more likely compare with a Tartan 41 or 4100 another nice well made American boat.

The Sabres really are in a class of thier own with the living accomadations as well as performance characteristics. The J120 is quicker, but more spartan for long term live aboard cruising.

Another boat the OP should lok at is the Perry designed Saga. The 40 is nice, but the 43 is a sailing machine.

2006 Saga 40 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

lawdawg said:


> I would greatly appreciate some more thoughts on the comments about the seaworthiness of the Sabre as far as ocean passages go. I started looking at Island Packet 35's (the same sort of high displacement design thinking as the caliber), but then found a Sabre 42 for about the same price that is very well equipped. By going up in size I was able to get more of the storage and tankage that came in the smaller IP, but also feel that I am getting a boat that sails much better. I just helped take an IP42 from West Florida to the Bahamas last week and there was definitely a clear shortage of any light wind performance and the iron genoa was cranked up much more than I would be happy with.
> kd3pc- you commented that the Sabre would need much more upgrading to be capable of ocean passages, versus what the Caliber comes with. Do you think you could expand on this a bit?
> Sailingdog- you stated that the Sabre isn't designed as a blue-water cruiser, do you think you could add a few more comments?
> While I know that the Sabre isn't built with the same full keel, heavy displacement philosophy, I am still under the impression that it will make a good boat to not only enjoy cruising the caribbean with, but to also head to the Pacific in. Am I wrong in this assessment?
> ...


Our slipmate has a Sabre 425 and in my mind its built to a standard (similar to the Tartan 40 I crewed on for 3 years) that I would feel comfortable sailing offshore. He has raced it to Bermuda with no problems. I'm not sure about tankage, but I'd choose a Sabre over a Caliber (and I'm a Caliber fan)and figure out how to deal with the tankage issue. Well built and fast would be the combination I'd look for for offshore. People have circumnaved 40+ foot Hunter's and Catalina's, so there is no way you can say either of these boats are not up to the task. The Caliber's aren't slow, but a Sabre would do a horizon job on the Caliber pretty quickly and many times the boat that gets to port earlier misses having its build strength/crew endurance tested.


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