# Choosing the Perfect Boat



## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

As promised, I am going to ask a lot of questions and here is my first one:

Two people embark on a journey from Marseille to a little island in West Micronesia. One is a very good sailer, a bit of a genius who's been trained very hard by the very best. The other has very little experience but is willing to learn.

They don't want to waste time, so will be stopping as little as possible (four, six times max).

I need you experienced people to suggest the perfect boat for this venture. We're talking a lot of blue water here (we'll get to the itinerary in another thread but first I want to sort out the boat issue).

I'm thinking that since only one of the two is a sailer, it needs to be pretty much a solo affair. Nothing too big but still allowing lots of fresh water on board, although part of the equipment will include desalination unit (I guess?)

Please explain why you suggest a particular boat (reference links very much appreciated) and do not hesitate to add any equipment that you deem necessary.

I know there will be lots of different opinions and maybe even some heated debate. The one to suggest the boat that is chosen for the story gets a dedicated copy of the book, anyone else who offers helpful comments will be included in the acknowledgements


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

DeeB, might I suggest that you put in your signature that you are an author researching a book? Not everyone will have seen your initial post and think you're truly someone looking to start sailing.


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

I'll play. 

How deep are their pockets?
How much prep time do they have?
Hiring extra crew possible?
Do they have a deadline for arrival?
Eastabout or Westabout?
Present-day, or some other time period?
Mostly-sailing, mostly-motoring, or about evenly mixed?
What happens to boat when they get to destination?
DO they get to destination, or do they need a *really good* rescue boat/life raft?
Any constraints on health or physical ability?
Purpose of voyage? e.g., on the run from the law, research, 'because it is there', 'just for fun'.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

DRFerron said:


> DeeB, might I suggest that you put in your signature that you are an author researching a book? Not everyone will have seen your initial post and think you're truly someone looking to start sailing.


Oh, yes, that's a very good point. It is underneath my user ID but I guess just to make sure so I don't get too much abuse for asking silly questions


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

More prominent in the signature. I didn't notice it up there.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

manatee said:


> I'll play.
> 
> How deep are their pockets?
> How much prep time do they have?
> ...


Budget is not an issue but I would like to keep it as small as is realistic.
They want to make it as quickly as possible. This is the best answer I can give you without revealling the plot (same comment for some of your other questions).
No extra crew.
Mostly sailing, as little motoring as possible but they have to be able to face the event of doldrums.
At this point I'm thinking westward (through Panama).
Present days.
We need a boat that will allow them to make it without rescue.

What boat would you choose?


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

IBIS, here: Brokerage

Because: fast, lightweight, built like a tank, 250 gals. of water, tabernacled masts, shallow draft for more safety & range amongst coral reefs, stowage space, and she's a beautiful boat.
(Warning, Dee, I will probably be flamed for promoting a sharpie. Get your Nomex jammies on.)

I mean what follows to be helpful; though it may sound negative, I mean it as constructive criticism. I hope you will accept it as such.

The idea of getting anywhere by boat "as quickly as possible" is an oxymoron. If your protagonists were in a hurry, they would fly. I could, if pressed, contrive some outlandish set of unlikely circumstances that would make sailing the "fastest" way to get from A to B. When I find such artificial contrivances for the sake of drama in my reading or viewing, I lose interest in the story because the author is not playing fair with the reader. The only time I will accept such things is in comedy, if they are played well. That's why I asked the purpose of the voyage - it has to make sense within the context of your characters' story, not just be a peg to hang the story on.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

If this is for a book, do you want a boat that might be a bit less than what would be considered a perfect bluewater boat? You know, so the characters find themselves in a harrowing situation. Or do you want a boat the readers will walk away thinking is awesome because it held up even when the crew screwed up?


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Perfect boat? That's easy... Morris 36 Justine:
MORRIS 36 JUSTINE sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

But can you afford it?


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

The boats that people chose tell you a lot about their personalities.

If you hero is adventurous he might buy an old race boat like a obsolete single-handed distance racer like an Open Class 40 or Open Class 50. 
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=78616&url=

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=77185&url=

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=76477&url=

If he wants to carry more 'stuff' he might get an old performance cruiser perhaps something like a Farr 44 or Farr 46. 
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1992/Farr-44-2601272/SAN-DIEGO/CA/United-States
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/Farr-44--2625756/New-Zealand
http://www.farrdesign.com/092.htm

Then again he might do something more conservative but a little less of a performance boat like one of the 'default' distance cruisers, say a Valiant 40/ 42, Peterson 44/46, Halberg rassey 40/42F/46, Passport 42, or Norseman 447. 
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/Valiant-40-2453159/VA/United-States
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/Kelly-Peterson-44-2625110/Charlotte/NC/United-States
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rrency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1893&url=

If they are smuggling something, those aren't too bad a choice since these are pretty ubiquitous cruisers that don't shout "hey look at me, I am rich and I know it." I can't imagine your character going any slower ou more conservative and still be interesting.

Boats this size allows you to bring a third person aboard for part of the voyage, and carry some surplus weight.

Jeff


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

There is no one perfect boat... 
except in fiction, of course.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

rgscpat said:


> There is no one perfect boat...
> except in fiction, of course.


Granted. So let me rephrase the question. Which boat would you choose for that particular journey? Remember it has to be fast with very few stops.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

Here's a try at a more "real" answer...

I'm surprised you haven't heard from more multihull fans. If the weight is carefully managed and the boat is designed as more of a racer-cruiser than just a cruiser, and the boat has sufficient attentive crew, it could be quite speedy. It would have to be dialed back some if it has a smaller crew; a smaller crew has more of a challenge in balancing speed, safety, and fatigue. The speed of multihulls can be weight sensitive, with the degree depending upon the design and purpose of the boat.

Following are very general thoughts about the speed of crossing an ocean on more or less "normal" sorts of sailboats that might be cruised -- someone else may be able to be much more specific and thorough but this might work as a first primer for a writer:

Cruisers crossing oceans can think of the speed of their boat in terms of a reasonable expectation for (sea/nautical) miles made good in a 24-hour period. This typically assumes use of some form of autopilot or wind vane steering, somewhat conservative sail selection, and reducing sail at night or whenever weather is potentially threatening. 

Some boats might expect something like an average of 100 nautical miles of progress per 24-hour period; much larger, faster, lightly loaded, better crewed and/or equipped boats that are more designed for speed might do as much as 200 or so. 
(Extreme ocean racing boats have of course done better but that's outside the realm of these thoughts.) (For many big ocean crossings, the nominal shortest distance will be on a "great circle" route, but there can be good reasons to deviate from it.)

The average expected performance is normally vastly much slower than the boat's theoretical speed. That might be because of variable (or sometimes no) wind (or lots of headwinds), adverse currents or waves, lack of crew to sail the boat aggressively (such as frequent sail trimming and adjustments), lack of fuel to run the motor often if the wind is light too often (or a dislike of running a motor often/need to save fuel for making electricity or conserve for emergency use), need to slow the boat to reduce discomfort or damage in some conditions, occasional needs for repairs, diversions from the shortest-course track to avoid bad weather or to find better wind, port visits, or any amount of "etc." 

There is also some science to being in the right time and place; winds, currents, and storms tend vary (in direction, intensity, and likelihood) by location and season and sailors can use weather routing software or services to pick (and subsequently adjust) routes and departure dates for the best chance of speed and safety. (Jimmy Cornell's book about world cruising routes has been a long-term traditional "Bible" for voyage planning.) Attentive sailors may be downloading and analyzing carefully some very detailed weather information throughout a passage. 

And sometimes the success of a passage comes down to plain old luck, of which there are at least two kinds. Well-prepared skippers seem to get more of the good kind. Poorly prepared skippers get more of the not-so-good kind (accidents, breakage, worn-out gear, and ignorance tend to be slow.) But, anyone can get either.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

rgscpat said:


> Here's a try at a more "real" answer...
> 
> I'm surprised you haven't heard from more multihull fans...


This is ALL excellent information, exactly what I was looking for when I joined this forum. Thank you so much.
You're still not telling me which boat you would recommend for this journey. Marseille, Gibraltar, Panama, Hawaii, Marshalls, West Micronesia. This is a plan for four stops. The person who has chosen the boat knows three things: they care about the safety of the person who is going to sail it, this person is exceptionally talented and they will need to go fast.

As for multihull, I have wondered the same thing as well but have been told that cross ing the Pacific solo on a Cat was as rare as chicken teeth. Of course there is a second person on board to assist with watch etc. BUT the person who selected that particular boat had to assume that a solo was likely.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

What's fast? And why would you want to speed through these areas? These are awesome cruising grounds. Do you need to get back to work?


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

DeeB said:


> This is ALL excellent information, exactly what I was looking for when I joined this forum. Thank you so much.
> You're still not telling me which boat you would recommend for this journey. Marseille, Gibraltar, Panama, Hawaii, Marshalls, West Micronesia. This is a plan for four stops. The person who has chosen the boat knows three things: they care about the safety of the person who is going to sail it, this person is exceptionally talented and they will need to go fast.


Well, in order to obtain more specific recommendations, you would have be more specific as to this exceptionally talented fictional character's _BUDGET_...

Just like in real life


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## juliekristine (Aug 17, 2010)

Obviously if getting from Marseille to Micronesia as quickly as possible was of primary importance, you'd head the other way, through the Red Sea, and take your chances with pirates. So I'm assuming the stops in Gibraltar, Panama, Hawaii, etc. are important to the story even though it about doubles the distance.

Since money is no object and they are starting in Marseille, I'd look at bluewater builders in Europe, assuming they are buying new. If they are buying new they can have the manufacturer increase tankage and even storage, if necessary.

The Finns & Swedes make great bluewater yachts. I'm choosing the Hallberg-Rassy 372. It's CE rating is A - unlimited ocean voyages. Under sail it can easily achieve 8 knots or more. Sail area is 788 sq/ft but can be increased to 1202 with a code zero, great for light air. Standard water tankage is 114 gallons but the main character installs a water maker. It's standard range under power is about 850 nautical miles.

With an aft cockpit and rigid windscreen, the crew is well protected in heavy weather. The owner also had an electric halyard winch installed for easier single-handed sailing and had a Dutchman installed on the mainsail. Another option installed is a Max Prop folding propeller.

It should be fast, comfortable and rock solid, capable of going anywhere but shallow water.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

If I were quite rich, a "Beowulf"-like Deerfoot/Sundeer (several models) would be lovely -- 68 or so length overall, designed for a couple to handle, but relatively tough boats and definitely faster than the average cruiser. More info is on the Dashew's site. 

If I were moderately rich and leaving Marseille on a French boat, it could well be a Super Maramu built by Chantier Amel -- various iterations of the Amels in the 50-foot-plus range, more of a solid cruising design that advertises a "cruising systems" approach. Not designed for speed per se, but the long waterline/greater size than many cruisers, and the design for ease of handling should mean pretty decent passage speed. 

If I were not so rich, I could imagine turning an old race boat into a bit more of a cruiser -- but some of these boats are rather high-strung for a short-handed crew to handle. Some of the bigger J Yachts boats that were designed as racer-cruisers might do.


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

like mentioned above,there is nor ever will be a perfect boat! if speed is your issue I suggest fly the friendly skys ,the bigger the boat,wider etc,the more comfortable and roomy but slower, on the other hand its kindof like the tortoise and the hare, is an extra knot or two really a big factor?


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

My suggestion:
* Take sailing classes at a local school with cruising boats.
* Have this conversation with your instructor during a lunch break.
* When the class is over go on a captained trip using one of the cruising boats that is capable of such a voyage and get to sail it a little bit yourself.

The book will read much more authentically if the boat that you write about is one that you've sailed on. It isn't that important that it is a specific make and model, it's more important that when you write a little bit about sailing that it sounds like you've sailed similar boats before.


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## NewportNewbie (Jul 30, 2011)

I'd look at the entry list of the Transpac. Look at some if the boats am see if there are any that can also be used as a cruiser. One that I may throw out there is a Beneteau First 30. I know of one that's been to Hawaii and back a few times. It's small enough to singlehand if needed and is faster than most cruising boats yet not quite race fast. Has a full interior that's pretty nice. It's something someone with a good chuck o cash would buy.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

As you are probably starting to see, just as the boat suggestions reflect the personalities of the people making the suggestion, the choice of the perfect boat is heavily dependent on the personality of your characters, and the personality of the sailing masters your character learned from. 

And the choice of the boat, is heavily dependent on the departure time of year and the choice of route. As was noted, if I had to sail a smallish boat to Micronesia from Marseille, I would head for the northern coast of South America using the diurnal winds on the South American coast to get past the duldrums, and then head to South Africa around Cape Horn. I would then stay south and jump to Australia or even New Zealand, before going on to Micronesia. 

Going that route takes one kind of boat. Going the opposite direction takes a very different boat. It also says something about the crew. Going the Cape Horn route says you have a serious experienced crew trying to get somewhere fast, the boat would be optimized for the beating it will take along the way. Going the other way says you have 'tourists' who want to take in the scenery along the way. 

And while the heading west route can be done in a sub-40 footer that is island hoping in tourist mode, it would be hard to do in serious fast sailing mode in a boat that small. If your characters are serious sailors, concerned with time spent en-passage, and are trying to do this in very big hops as you suggest, then the boat probably needs to be in mid-40 foot range, and comparatively light for its length. 

Then again, this response reflects my personality as you probably can see.

Jeff


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

If budget is no object, a Catana Catamaran would be my choice.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

I'm having a hard time reconciling a character who needs to "get there fast" with going by sailboat.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Jeff_H said:


> As you are probably starting to see, just as the boat suggestions reflect the personalities of the people making the suggestion, the choice of the perfect boat is heavily dependent on the personality of your characters, and the personality of the sailing masters your character learned from.


Not to mention, the _nationality_ of the protagonist would likely heavily influence the choice of boat... Assuming a departure from Marseille might indicate he's French, it would not be very likely his choice would be, say, a Bowman, or a Moody, or a Hunter Legend...


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

Tsk-tsk. Poor Dee! Has to take a year or two off for some serious sailing to get the details right. Tough job!


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

You could always have them just steal a boat knowing nothing about it. That way the incorrect terms and screw ups could be explained (hidden).


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

One of the protagonists is " a very good sailer, a bit of a genius who's been trained very hard by the very best."

It's more about finding a believable boat, taking the schooner 'TIKI' over a Mirror dinghy. No offense to Mirror sailors!


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

DRFerron said:


> I'm having a hard time reconciling a character who needs to "get there fast" with going by sailboat.


Here's the story line as I've gathered from Dee:

The main character is a world class woman sailor. A person or persons buys the "perfect boat" Dee is trying to find for the heroine to sail from Marseille to Gibraltar to Panama to Hawaii to the Marshalls and finally to Micronesia. All of the stops are important to the story.

My guess is the heroine either volunteered for this mission or has the proverbial gun to her head and has to go. Whatever the need for speed, that comes from the person(s) for whom she's heading out on this mission. I'm assuming the person(s) behind this mission probably don't care about the heroine's comfort. Dee did say she has to be challenged and she may or may not be singlehanding the boat on some legs.

Early on I was thinking a proven bluewater cruiser. But knowing what I do now, I'm thinking an Open 40. It would work if the heroine had placed well or won open ocean races. And the French seem to have a penchant for these boats.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

JonEisberg said:


> Well, in order to obtain more specific recommendations, you would have be more specific as to this exceptionally talented fictional character's _BUDGET_...
> 
> Just like in real life


See post #6
Budget not an issue

Just tell me what boat you would choose and rest assured that no-one is going to make the decision for me. Any specific reply that I get helps me know where to _start_ looking, then the research really begins. Vague replies do not help, because at this point I still know too little to sort through the many possibilities they suggest.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

DRFerron said:


> I'm having a hard time reconciling a character who needs to "get there fast" with going by sailboat.


That's only one of the very many reasons why you're not writing this book 

Let me handle the plotting and in exchange I promise not to tell you how to sail your boat.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

bljones said:


> If budget is no object, a Catana Catamaran would be my choice.


Thanks for that. From their web page it looks like the Catana 47 is rigged to be handled solo if needed. Can anyone confirm?


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Yeah, I didn't read much of the other posts, but that was what I was going to suggest. Cumfy for the new sailor because of the way she rides on the sea. Easy for the genius guy to rig for solo sailing, and faster than any mono hull will be.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

DeeB said:


> That's only one of the very many reasons why you're not writing this book
> 
> Let me handle the plotting and in exchange I promise not to tell you how to sail your boat.


I think your book will get relegated to the junk pile or maybe sold in the bin at Costco for $1.99.

People trying to write sailing books that don't sail. Yeah right. Maybe you could ad some realism to your story by actually getting out here and doing it. That's if you have any stones...


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

Alex W said:


> My suggestion:
> * Take sailing classes at a local school with cruising boats.
> * Have this conversation with your instructor during a lunch break.
> * When the class is over go on a captained trip using one of the cruising boats that is capable of such a voyage and get to sail it a little bit yourself.
> ...


As I said somewhere else:

I am smiling because of the few comments that I've gotten along the lines of 'go sailing yourself' or 'get an instructor'. Who ever said I wasn't?

When I started on this story years ago I had done a bit of scuba diving in the med as a child. Since some of the story has to do with diving, I decided I didn't know enough about it. I left everything behind (job, friends, boyfriend, cats) and went to leave in South-East Asia and the Middle-East for two years. I trained as a scuba instructor so I could support myself. I ended up doing a lot of technical diving and some commercial too. No-one there called me a fraud and I'm hoping my readers won't either. I loved every day of it of course.

Now I'm getting to write another part of the book which has to do with a long sailing journey across the oceans. What do you think I'm going to do? Why would anyone automatically assume that I'm happy with just asking questions on the Internet? What makes these people think that I haven't yet started taking lessons at our local club? Is it lack of imagination, snobbery or arrogance that dominates their thinking pattern? How about we all stopped making assumptions and just got on instead?

The truth is that sailing is a much bigger subject than Scuba, although there probably would be some proud diver to disagree. One instructor, as good as they may be, will not hold all the answers. As Jeff has already pointed out, anyone's answer will only reflect their personality. Even if I wanted to spend another two years writing the book, it wouldn't be enough to give me the combined knowledge that all of you hold. A lifetime wouldn't be enough. So I have to ask, even if it means becoming the recipient of other people's negative, unimaginative projections and uncourteous manners. I don't care. What I'm doing matters too much and anyway and there are so many very good people to make up for the others.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

aeventyr60 said:


> People trying to write sailing books that don't sail. Yeah right. Maybe you could ad some realism to your story by actually getting out here and doing it. That's if you have any stones...


See my previous post.

Honey, if you don't like my approach to research, go and get yourself another thread to reply to.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Yeah, sailors can be dicks. Especially the kind that race. You can alway's tell weather or not someone who paints or draws pictures of sail boats has ever spent any time actually using them by the missing heads stays and backwards booms, no anchor line and such. I'm gald you are taking the initiative to do some broad research. This is the perfect place to ask about boat types because the topic comes up all the time here so we are all educated a little from each other on what's what. Collectivly we know a lot. That guy Jeff H knows more about the nuances of all the models out there than any body I've read. The worst book I've read recently was J. Pattersons SAIL. He was way off on how a voyage happens. Good story though. You could read that and get some insight towards how not to write about sailing. Any way's, best of luck to you, looking forward to reading it.


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## Grunthrie (May 2, 2013)

DeeB said:


> As for multihull, I have wondered the same thing as well but have been told that cross ing the Pacific solo on a Cat was as rare as chicken teeth. Of course there is a second person on board to assist with watch etc. BUT the person who selected that particular boat had to assume that a solo was likely.


Cruise on over to The Slapdash | No Fixed Address, two sailing novices sailed around the world on a 34' Gemini catamaran. They did it slow and easy, took lots of photos and wrote a blog, but they went through the panama canal, crossed the pacific and did a fair bit of island hopping. I've read the whole blog (~4 years) I think that their attractive, fast, comfortable boat would work well for your purposes.

Edit: While they took it slow around the world they tried to make the passages a as fast as possible, and in stormy conditions were able to approach 20 knots at times and regularly logged 100+nm days. Your expert could probably coax pretty quick passages out of it and the low draft and ability to beach at low tide might come up if they are trying to stay low profile. Lightly used models go for ~130k in the states, don't know about Europe.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

DeeB said:


> See my previous post.
> 
> Honey, if you don't like my approach to research, go and get yourself another thread to reply to.


Research is fine honey, but a little experience will do wonders for your book, unless your too blind to the obvious. Were you one of those "100 dive wonder"
instructors too?


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

DeeB said:


> See post #6
> Budget not an issue
> 
> Just tell me what boat you would choose and rest assured that no-one is going to make the decision for me. Any specific reply that I get helps me know where to _start_ looking, then the research really begins. Vague replies do not help, because at this point I still know too little to sort through the many possibilities they suggest.


In that case, a Tag 60 would probably do nicely...

http://www.tagyachts.com/


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

JonEisberg said:


> In that case, a Tag 60 would probably do nicely...
> 
> http://www.tagyachts.com/


Perfect boat for those who know so little....


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

aeventyr60 said:


> Perfect boat for those who know so little....


Did you crawl out of your mother knowing all that you know about sailing? Or did you go out and and sail and ask and learn like this chick is doing?


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Capt.aaron said:


> Did you crawl out of your mother knowing all that you know about sailing? Or did you go out and and sail and ask and learn like this chick is doing?


No Aaron, I actually read the entire thread and there is no mention of the OP ever sailing or learning to sail, she is just researching a book.

As others mentioned some actual sailing experience might make the book a bit more "real".

I learned everything thing I know from your anti racing diatribes....


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

aeventyr60 said:


> No Aaron, I actually read the entire thread and there is no mention of the OP ever sailing or learning to sail, she is just researching a book.
> 
> As others mentioned some actual sailing experience might make the book a bit more "real".
> 
> I learned everything thing I know from your anti racing diatribes....


Diatribe And I think she mentioned that she was indeed sailing and learning else where. That she came here to gather the collective knowledge of " sailnetter people" on specific oppinoins on what boat would we choose for such a voyage. diatribe................racers are dicks.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Capt.aaron said:


> Diatribe And I *think *she mentioned that she was indeed sailing and learning else where. That she came here to gather the collective knowledge of " sailnetter people" on specific oppinoins on what boat would we choose for such a voyage. diatribe................racers are dicks.


That "thinking" stuff can get you in a lot of trouble....


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

aeventyr60 said:


> Perfect boat for those who know so little....


Or, for those who have too much... 

I saw that Tag 60 in Ft Pierce last winter, that thing is Pure Sex... Along with a Gunboat, probably the only multihull I could ever bring myself to own... OK, so I could probably be talked into one of Chris White's Atlantics, as well...

Probably just as well a budget IS a consideration, for me


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

Okay people, that's it. I have enough info to start digging in earnest! As promised, everyone who has provided help and support gets included in the acknowledgements, wishing that I could do more. Who knows, maybe one day our respective journeys will bring us to the same port?

Although my sailing experience is still modest, I have 'boated' a bit in a lot of places and different conditions. What I knew already and has been confirmed in this first experience of Sailnet is that boatizens are either wonderful or complete dickheads. I am glad of the first who are thankfully more numerous and, with them, amused by the latter


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

aeventyr60 said:


> That "thinking" stuff can get you in a lot of trouble....


How so? Do tell. And with whom? She stated last page that she was sailing at her local club, that's how I read it any way's. I supose she alluded to that fact. What ever. I'm glad she's doing research on sailing. I THINK you're kinda being a dick to her for asking a pretty normal question, in a pretty obvious place to ask . Does that kind of thinking get me in trouble? by the way, have you ever done any racing by chance?


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

You'll have to work on your reading comprehension skills as well as critical thinking ones. Nope, no mention of sailing til the very end, and that was the entire point. Sounds more like fantasy book stuff to me which is quite boorish on a so called sailing forum. Racing? just enough to know that most are dickheads.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Indeed and agreed. I read too quick and jump to conclusions. And my critical thinking is greatly impared by the fact that I tend to be dick.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

DeeB said:


> Thanks for that. From their web page it looks like the Catana 47 is rigged to be handled solo if needed. Can anyone confirm?


Most any boat can be set up to be single-handed by a reasonably skilled sailor. But I would not expect this to be a particularly good choice single-handed voyage of the kind that you character is taking. Boats like these are best suited for carrying a larger crew for comparatively shorter trans atlantic hops than they are for the long hops you are proposing. Boats like these take a fair amount of attention if they are being pushed hard to make time. That is not the kind of thing that makes sense single-handed and an experienced sailor like you character, would know that and make a different choice.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

Capt.aaron said:


> Indeed and agreed. I read too quick and jump to conclusions.


No, you had read me right in the first place. Our local sailing club is full of very helpful people, although I have heard of a couple of unpleasants. I am finding that sailing lessons do a great deal to improve one's writing on the subject too

Cheers


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Jeff_H said:


> Most any boat can be set up to be single-handed by a reasonably skilled sailor. But I would not expect this to be a particularly good choice single-handed voyage of the kind that you character is taking. Boats like these are best suited for carrying a larger crew for comparatively shorter trans atlantic hops than they are for the long hops you are proposing. Boats like these take a fair amount of attention if they are being pushed hard to make time. That is not the kind of thing that makes sense single-handed and an experienced sailor like you character, would know that and make a different choice.


You are just another negative , what did she call them , oh yes dickheads. 

Hey ... how does d***h**ds get through the wordgrinder ?

Anyway, Jeff, you need to get with the program. Negativity negativity negativity. Its all I hear from some of you people. You should be ashamed of yourselves.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

DeeB said:


> No, you had read me right in the first place. Our local sailing club is full of very helpful people, although I have heard of a couple of unpleasants. I am finding that sailing lessons do a great deal to improve one's writing on the subject too
> 
> Cheers


No I know, I was being sarcastic. 'cept for the part about being a dick, but atleast I own up to it. Back on task, I think your character may be the sort that would design and have their own boat built, rather than a production, Probably a a trimaran. That's what I would do if I was wicked smart and had no budget limitations, and wanted fast.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Any cruising boat designer strives to make his own designs the perfect boat based on his own experience ( or lack of it)and that of his clients, and their feedback over may years . That is what I have tried to do . So obviously, my 36 would be my first choice for a couple.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

Capt.aaron said:


> No I know, I was being sarcastic. 'cept for the part about being a dick, but atleast I own up to it. Back on task, I think your character may be the sort that would design and have their own boat built, rather than a production, Probably a a trimaran. That's what I would do if I was wicked smart and had no budget limitations, and wanted fast.


You're right but (and maybe I should have said) she doesn't choose the boat. It is chosen for her, along with the itinerary of the journey, by someone who:
- Knows how talented she is
- Holds great interest in her safety
- Wants to challenge her a little nevertheless
- Has bottomless pockets
- Is not sure whether she will be accompanied or not so has to come up with a boat that can be single handled and accommodate two
- Needs her to complete the journey as quickly as possible.
She finds out about the boat at the same time as she finds out about the trip, pretty much.

As for why the journey is done westward through Panama instead of eastward through Suez is a matter of plot, which I'm afraid I can't share anymore than I have already.

So, knowing all of this, how does the choice of the Catana 47 hold in your opinion? If there are objections then great, because it will feed the story


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

I think who ever picked the boat for her would have it custom built for her and would build a trimamarn built for speed, and comfort. Probbably some kind of aluminum thing.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

I have of course thought that having the person who sets it all up custom-order the boat would be ideal. And it would, for sure. Others have suggested it, just proving how good an idea it is. But as I have mentioned elsewhere, I know too little about sailboats to be able to 'make one up'. With a production boat I have the benefit of tons of documentation from the manufacturer, 'for sale' listings, reviews etc. it doesn't mean that the boat couldn't be customised, though. For example with the Catana I don't see why the cabins couldn't be repurposed for storage, as all that will be needed is the main one. But this is for another thread


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Well, boats like the Cantana need to be loaded correctly, You can't just fill up a cabin with all kinds of gear. I'm no designer. But I think with some research you could find the right consultant to help you build the right boat. I guess if Mr. deep pockets was just going to go out and buy a production boat specicaly for her, he still might go trimaran. My freind jokes that he could kick his way out of the hull of his Cantana becuase it's lightly built.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

I'm thinking of somethimg like a Chris Wright Trimaran, customized with electric sh!t for single handling.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

A stock standard Benetau 50 would be fine for your fantasy. Plenty of others are giving it a go. Just look in all the marinas, heaps of 40 and 50 footers, just waiting to go cruising.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

Capt.aaron said:


> I'm thinking of somethimg like a Chris Wright Trimaran, customized with electric sh!t for single handling.


Yes, it has been suggested elsewhere and I'm looking at the Explorer 44. It looks like all the controls already are in the same place, so with electric stuff as you say...


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

DeeB said:


> You're right but (and maybe I should have said) she doesn't choose the boat. It is chosen for her, along with the itinerary of the journey, by someone who:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ...


Hmmm, why does the name Abby Sunderland come to mind?

Hope your story has a happier ending than hers


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

DeeB said:


> Yes, it has been suggested elsewhere and I'm looking at the Explorer 44. It looks like all the controls already are in the same place, so with electric stuff as you say...


I say the Explorer 44 would be perfect. Maybe a little beefed up with some extra glass on the stress areas. Like a custom job for her mission or what ever. 
I also say, as a single handler who has alway's done things the old way. No roller furling, hand raising my anchor, etc. etc. I said to my self on my voyage last May from Key West to Honduras, which ws only 7 day's off shore, that I was over working the fore deck in the middle of the night and over putting in and shaking out reefs in my main. I was with my 72 year old father in law, so basically single handling. I'm ready for a roller furling main and head sail.
I would never my self go all electric winches and auto matic this and that, but your character and her funder may do exactly that, automatic sh!t they do these day's is other worldy. Just read some hight tech sail mags and stuff.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

JonEisberg said:


> Hmmm, why does the name Abby Sunderland come to mind?


Haha, couldn't be any further.
I found out about her while doing my research. Brave kid but not my type of story.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

The Explorer 44 is a neat boat, very fast, but it can't carry enough food and water for one person, let alone two people, to make the long hops that has been proposed. There would need to be a lot more island hoping. The water almost might get by with solar panels and a water maker, but carrying enough food and gear would be very tough. The interior layout makes no sense even as a middle distance cruiser. No where to sleep where the noise and motion wouldn't beat you up quick.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

If I can carry enough on my 28 foot sloop, I don't see how I would'nt be able to do it with the Explorer. Bladders, water maker, and dehydrated food. I can put 6 months of food on my boat and I carry 165 gallons of water. And sleeping has got to be more cumfy on a multi than a little mono.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

Hm Jeff, I think that Chris White and his wife would disagree with you on that one. I'm getting in touch with owners and will make sure to ask them the question as well. If I have to fit in a couple extra stops no problem.
As for comfort, I've never mentioned it as a spec. Quite the opposite.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

DeeB said:


> As for comfort, I've never mentioned it as a spec. Quite the opposite.


If the person choosing this boat does, indeed, "hold great interest in her safety", then a modicum of comfort should certainly be a consideration...

Discomfort over the course of long passages will be a major contributor - especially in the case of solo or shorthanded crew - to exhaustion, fatigue, and similar factors that will result in the diminishing of safety...



Capt.aaron said:


> If I can carry enough on my 28 foot sloop, I don't see how I would'nt be able to do it with the Explorer. Bladders, water maker, and dehydrated food. *I can put 6 months of food on my boat and I carry 165 gallons of water.* And sleeping has got to be more cumfy on a multi than a little mono.


Yeah, but I'll bet Chris White would positively cringe at the notion of putting 1,300 pounds of water on his Explorer 44, and what it would do to her performance


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

You just gotta spread it around. I have a 65 gal tank under the V bearth and 2 20 gal bladders where the engine was, a few jerry cans and bottled water stuck here and there. That dang trimaran would perform great with the extra weight off shore. I've deliverd some Tris that size, they are extremely comfy.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

Okay Jeff. Thanks for your input.

Cap'n Aaron, that's good to know. Especially since the Explorer has been designed to 'carry a real cruising load of supplies so that you can stay out for months at a time'*, I'd be surprised if its designer objected to it being provisioned adequately.

*Actually quoting Chris White


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

In fact I'm hoping to hear back from him on the technical aspects of my project. I'll make sure to ask him whether he thinks his boat can undertake such a journey


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

A custom built boat could take up to a year from the time it's commissioned. I'm not sure how well that fits with your story. 

If speed is somehow of the essence in the story you might consider putting your character in a used Beneteau. I would imagine they're pretty common on the French coast and quite a few have done long journeys.

You might take a look at some of Lisa Copeland's books such as Cruising for Cowards for ideas about little everyday things when cruising. She and her husband circumnavigated with a couple of kids on a Beneteau.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Well, ask him what would an alluminum 55 footer custom built to get sh!t kicked out of it be like. That's what I would have built if I was a fictional gazillionire puting together an epic high speed voayage across the big oceans. Yeah know, with all the hight tech automated gear and all. Jon and JeffH really know there stuff, and Jon used "modicum" in a sentance like it just rolled off of his tounge for which I personally am a little envious, look for that word in my posts in the future. But if you can get Chris W. to help you design on paper a few paragraphs on what a beefed up version of one of his designs would be like, your home free on describing the boat, and can just refer back to some of the details when needed. In all honestly some of my earliest voyages where successful due to my Youthfull vigor and ignorance, and the later voyages at times I was able to push some boats past there intended design because of what I discovered in my youth. Like the Beneteau 27 foot First with the little wing keel I sailed to Columbia in 20 plus seas and 25 kn. steady winds with no engine from Jamaicia. Probably not the smartest move and to have discussed that voyage prior to departure here on this forum, wicked smart guy's would tell me how that boat wasn't built for that and I was stupid and crazy, but actually, that little boat was right at home in those conditions.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

JimMcGee said:


> A custom built boat could take up to a year from the time it's commissioned. I'm not sure how well that fits with your story.
> 
> If speed is somehow of the essence in the story you might consider putting your character in a used Beneteau. I would imagine they're pretty common on the French coast and quite a few have done long journeys.
> 
> You might take a look at some of Lisa Copeland's books such as Cruising for Cowards for ideas about little everyday things when cruising. She and her husband circumnavigated with a couple of kids on a Beneteau.


That is very true. If I had to leave on Tuesday, I'd get on sailboatlistings.com, buy the best codition Benny, throw on some canned chicken, ready rice, coffee ,water and chocolate and go. The tri will be doing 18 knots when the Benny is pushing 10, so it's all about what kind of speed you really need the story to carry.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

Since you're able to write into the story any back story that fits, going the custom-built route is very doable. You mentioned you didn't know enough about sailboats to create a custom built boat for your story. One designer that could easily fit into your book is Germán Frers.

You could try to contact him and keep your fingers crossed he replies. He could design the perfect boat (in words) for your story so there wouldn't be _too_ many sailors  disappointed in the choice of boat.

If you took something like his 45' IRC cruiser/racer, it could be outfitted for single-handing and to provide enough tankage and storage for the long passages the heroine will make. It could also be more comfortable than something like an Open Class 40 but not so comfortable it no longer fits the story line. And it's kind of "sexy". And since Frers has designed it to race, it should be fast enough for meet your requirements. If it's not, make it so. It's a new design and doesn't have a track record. Just don't write in too may 500 mile days. 










On another note, one thing I haven't seen mentioned (and those of you who have made this passage might want to pipe in on this) is most sailors who make an east-west transatlantic passage drop down to the Canaries and/or Cape Verde as their last landfall before beginning their Atlantic crossing. It's faster than trying to make a straight shot from Gibraltar to Panama. You need to know the trade winds to make these passages, as well as the skills of the heroine, believable.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

JulieMor said:


> If you took something like his 45' IRC cruiser/racer, it could be outfitted for single-handing and to provide enough tankage and storage for the long passages the heroine will make.


I would hope "outfitting for singlehanding" almost halfway around the world might include the addition of some lifelines


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

And a mainsheet!


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

DeeB said:


> In fact I'm hoping to hear back from him on the technical aspects of my project. I'll make sure to ask him whether he thinks his boat can undertake such a journey


I apologize that this is really long and that I wrote this for another discussion on the math of cruising weights and so some of the detail may not specifically apply to this discussion. I still think that this may provide useful background on my comments on carrying capacity.

There has long been a tendency for conservative cruising sailors to talk about needing some arbitrary length boat that seems to be ideal for their personal needs, and then to argue that the heavier the boat the better. But as coastal cruisers and even distance cruising designs have become progressively lighter for their length, I continue to suggest that the way to find the right boat for a sailors needs is to start with how much displacement is needed and then back into the length and type of boat really makes sense. This exercise is predominantly aimed as distance cruisers because their choice of displacement ultimately controls the comfortable range of the boat.

So let's start with the basics, when you talk about the displacement of a boat (its weight), it is comprised of the weight of the boat with all of the fixed and operable components needed to sail and motor which is often referred to as it's 'dry weight'. This is often the weight that is published for racing and performance boats since most racing rating rules use this weight as a part of the rating calculation. But in real life the actual sailing displacement will vary, and vary widely depending on how much crew weight, gear, supplies, spares, consumables and so on happen to be aboard.

Cruising boat designers typically design to a load level that they anticipate as being something of the intended normal loading that would be expected for one of their designs, and that is sometimes referred to as the 'design weight'. Often the published displacements for cruising boats are actually their design weights. Because performance boats publish their dry displacements and cruising boats tend to publish their design displacements, this difference in the chosen published numbers leads to the frequent misconception that relative to cruising boats, racing and performance cruisers are relatively lighter than they really are.

All boats can tolerate some additional loading beyond their dry weight, but at some point there is a weight limit after which the safety, motion comfort, and performance of the boat will be harmed. The difference between this fully loaded weight and the dry weight is generally what is thought of as the carrying capacity of the boat. I suggest that determining how much carrying capacity for the type of cruising you are considering needs to be one of the very first steps in selecting the right boat for distance cruising.

The amount of required carrying capacity will be directly related to the number of people on board, the anticipated passage distance and resultant time at sea of the planned voyages that are being contemplated, the climates involved, variations in a particular crew's comfort level preferences, the level of conservatism, and discipline.

These last items are purely determined by the idiosyncrasies of the individuals involved, but the some of the first items are relatively easily quantifiable. The most obvious weight driver is the number of people on board. Each person needs their personal gear; clothing, foul weather gear, PFD's, sleeping gear and so on. The weight of these items are somewhat controlled by the ethos of the crew and the distance and number of climates that they are likely to encounter. Warm weather cruisers need less clothes than cool weather cruisers, but a boat that rounds one of the major capes needs both warm and cold weather gear. A crew which is diligently disciplined about the weight that they drag aboard will get by with less gear than a crew who is more relaxed and so might bring more souvenirs, heavier personal affects and contingent or redundant clothing.

A disciplined crew in a warm climate might take as little 30 lbs of personal articles per person. A cold climate can easily double that. A more relaxed crew might take 300-500 pounds of 'stuff' per person. Think of the weight of a library of pulp fiction, the right outfit for all occasions including dress clothes for nights ashore, gel foam mattresses and 'proper lines', dive tanks, wet suits, diving weights and you can quickly understand why there is such a large range. There is no one right answer on this issue, but its important for you to understand where your venue and crew fall in the continuum of possible crew types.

A normal person eats roughly 2-3% of their weight per day. For a typical healthy weight American man that is somewhere around 3-4 lbs of food per day without containers. But sailing burns a lot of calories, simply sitting on a boat at sea causes flexing and un-flexing of muscles just to accommodate to wave motion. Even a laid back crew will burn nearly double the calories that the do on shore. A performance oriented crew can increase that daily consumption dramatically, literally nearly doubling the food requirement since they are burning lots more calories making more frequent sail adjustments, and hand steering a larger portion of the time. Canned containers can add as much as 25% to the weight of the food, whereas bulk containers may add as little as 4-8%. Refrigerated packaging tends to be lighter, but it comes at the price of added weight in compressors, battery capacity, fuel, and or solar collection, wind gen equipment, resulting in minimal, if any real savings. Vegetarians, who eat fish, probably get by with the lightest food weight and cost. Serious carnivores, can greatly increase the weight and cost of voyaging. Again, there is no one right answer here, but its important for you to understand the realities of your sailing style and crew preferences.

Taken as a whole, including containers and packing fluids, the average weight of the food consumption per crew member per day should be seen as falling in a rough range of 5 lbs. to 10 lbs per day.

And that does not include potable liquids. The most efficient liquid to carry is simply water. Cruising with tight discipline, planning should assume that a person will consume around a half a gallon of water per day including cooking. But most cruisers use more than that, especially in warm climates where minimum consumptions can quickly exceed a gallon per day. Performance crews in warm climates can easily drink that much without considering water use for cooking or cleaning. Allowing for the weight of tankage that comes out to an approximate range of 5 to 15 lbs per person per day.

Combining the weight of food and water, containers and tankage, you end up with an approximate allowance of 10 to 25 lbs per person per day. Surprised? I know I was.

And this is where the anticipated cruising range comes into play. Coastal Cruisers might think in terms of partially restocking (perhaps in the form of eating at restaurants) while transoceanic voyagers need to plan to have everything that they need on board for their longest leg. But even amongst distance cruisers, there are big differences between an approximately 3,500 mile great circle trans-Atlantic passage from England to New York for example, vs. a jump across the Pacific from Panama to Hawaii of roughly 5,300 miles.

But there are also further differences between oceanic cruisers even in the same ocean. One trans-Atlantic crossing may jump from Portugal to the Canaries to the Caribbean which cuts the hops in half, while another trans-Atlantic might be Cape Town, South Africa to Florida of around 7,800 miles. It is in this way, that the choice of boat with its carrying capacity, and reasonable average daily distances that this boat can sail, as well as the consumption rates of your crew might limit your choices for possible passages that can safely be made.

Of course, it is entirely reasonable to buy a boat with less carrying capacity planning to be more comfortable on short distance voyages but with the implicit understanding that there will need to be more intense rationing on longer passages.

But assuming the capacity to make reasonably safe and comfortable passages, and assuming average daily passage rates between 100 miles a day (normal sub-40 foot cruiser sailed moderately aggressively) to 200 miles for a bigger faster cruiser, a cruiser making the leap from straight from Panama to Hawaii might expect to spend between 25 days (fast passage) as much as 40 to 80 days depending on luck and boat speed. For the fast and disciplined cruiser, allowing no reserves that means roughly 300 lbs of food and water and another 30 lbs in gear for the passage. Not all that much really.

But more realistically, even with a comparatively fast boat and a sharp crew, and reasonable safety factors; the food, water and gear weight per person jumps up to being much closer to 700 lbs, plus their body weight.

As a broad rule of thumb, in addition to that you need to carry approximately 1 to 2 times the weight per person for fuel, loose gear and spares. Obviously, this last category is highly variable. As the displacement of the boat increases, the required amount of fuel and the weight of gear will increase independent of the weight of food, water, and personal gear that each person needs.

But as a broad generality for a couple making long passages and planning to restock when they are in port, that comes out to a minimum carrying capacity of roughly around 3,500 -4,000 lbs.

And after all that, this is the point at which differences in individual hull design and boat type come into play. The carrying capacity of a boat is generally proportionate to the displacement of the boat and its water-plane (footprint area of the boat in the water at an average loading). Boats which have long waterlines for their weight, tend to have comparatively large water planes and so have a larger carrying capacity as a percentage of their displacement. Boats which are short for their length tend to have a smaller carrying capacity as a percentage of their displacement. Where this often gets confused in the 'court of public opinion' is that a boat which is short for its length will tend to have a greater carrying capacity than an equal length boat that is light for its length.

Also as a broad generality, monohulls tend to have larger water planes relative to their length, and also tend to have greater displacement for any given length and so have substantially larger carrying capacity for any given length. But also, monohulls tend to be more weight distribution tolerant than multihulls, which as a broad generality do not handle weight in the bow and stern as well as a monohull due to the comparatively small reserve buoyancy in multihull ends.

Trimarans are even more capacity challenged than Cats because they start with very small displacements and tiny water planes when sitting level (which in part is where their speed comes from). But as they heel the main hull and leeward ama has to support the weight of the windward aka and ama. The safe carrying capacity of the Trimaran is thereby reduced by the weight of the lifted aka and ama. As a broad generality, this makes Trimarans far less suitable for longer distance cruising which include passages such as the South African to Caribbean or the major Pacific hops.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

On the custom boat question, if the design and build timeline does not suit the plot line, you have an easy out. Because of the economic down turn there are custom boats which were being constructed when the bottom fell out. Some were never completed, some were completed and never equipped, and other were simply repossessed or otherwise dumped on the market. You could make a believable case that the boat in question was one of those. 

For most of us the choice of a used Beneteau would seem like an unlikely choice and not an especially creative choice. A trip like your character taking would approximately be the equivillent of 15 years of hard use and the boat would be pretty well spent by the time it arrived. 

Jeff


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## sailorboy15 (Jul 1, 2013)

Might I sugest the Pogo 30? It is fast but not as spartan as an ocean race boat. It is a production boat so you have plenty of information about it. It is unique enough to be the choice of someone with big money who might consider a custom built boat


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

Jeff, that's a true mine of info, thank you. 

So to summarise quickly, the extra load for such an itinerary on such a boat could end up making the experience uncomfortable. Excellent, as I said before, the person who picks the boat wants to challenge the intending recipient on that journey.
Secondly, they may arrive a little thinner than they left and considerably dirtier. Not a problem either.

I will take some of the other points you have made in consideration when t's time to write (at the time of researching this I am writing another part).

As for the time required to have the boat built and prepped, again that's also something I had already taken into account, just needed good estimations to make it work. A year works fine.

Chris White has replied and will help. He sounds awesome already.

Definitely going with the Explorer 44. All the difficulties that it may imply will only end up feeding the story. Now I need to get I touch with some owners or in any case people who have experience sailing it...


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

If you don't mind I would like to suggest a few points which you may be fully aware of. The choice of a boat like the Explorer 44 definitely has plot implications. Since only you know what you are trying to accomplish in this portion of the plot only you will know if this is the message that you want to send.

Within the plot there may be reasons why you might chose this particular boat, or specific motavations embedded in the character of the person who picks the boat which might lead them to select the Explorer 44, but in chosing such a marginally suitable boat, if you wish the story to be believable, you will probably need to write a clear exposition of those motivations into the story.

From the viewpoint of a sailor, simply hearing this particular choice for that particular voyage suggests some mix of three possible impressions: 
-A trip like this would 'use up' a boat like the Explorer, so author plans to destroy the boat by the end of the passage. 
-The person who chose the boat, either knows nothing about distance voyaging or else sees the boat and the heroine as totally 'disposable'. If that person knew about distance voyaging and cared about either, they would chose a more purpose built vessel. 
-The author of the book knows little or nothing about sailing.



DeeB said:


> So to summarise quickly, the extra load for such an itinerary on such a boat could end up making the experience uncomfortable.
> Excellent, as I said before, the person who picks the boat wants to challenge the intending recipient on that journey.
> Secondly, they may arrive a little thinner than they left and considerably dirtier. Not a problem either.


You need to understand that the mix of starting with extra load but not being able to carry enough to actually make it safely, is not about being uncomfortable, or losing weight (most sailors would toughen up and lose weight on a trip like this), its about about greatly reducing the chance of survival to the point that a skilled and talented sailor would not make this trip except under serious duress.

This falls in a category that reminds me of a quote from a colleague who went through architecture school with me. He quoted an Art Institute of Chicago professor that he had before entering the university as saying, "Only a genius can do great work with bad tools, and a genius wouldn't [chose to work with bad tools]." Its just not believable that a skilled and talented sailor simply would chose this particular boat unless there was unique and compelling reasons to do so. And unless you set up those reasons believably, the sense of authentcity and credibility would be lost.

To explain why I say this, if we start with Ockham's razor on this choice of boat and consider the points in yesterdays's post, a boat like the Explorer 44 starts with a comparatively tiny carrying capacity.

When you start out with that kind of deficit of carrying capacity, there is a Sophie's Choice on how you adapt to that small capacity. If you overload the boat, you also over stress it; thereby reducing its safety margins, shortening its lifespan, and increasing the likelihood of not being able to complete the trip in one piece.

If you decide to beef the boat up to withstand these additional loads, you are adding weight and thereby reducing the already minimal carrying capacity available for consumables, and/or slowing the speed of the trip, resulting in needing more consumables. In other words, this quickly becomes a viscious design loop with one decision compromising the other possible choices.

Even simple decision points embody this kind of lose-lose decision making process. Take sails, conventional dacron is too stretchy to be used for both the light and heavy air sails so you end up carrying more sails than you would with high tech cloth, and dacron weighs more than high tech. The right high tech cloth to get a broad wind range lacks the robustness for a trip like this, and ideally would be replaced at somepoint along the way. If reinforced to make the trip, the sail gets heavier and so increases rigging loads.

If you want to get an authentic sense of what that kind of a survival voyage might be like, I would suggest that you might want to read Alain Gerbault's book, "The Fight of the Firecrest". Gerbault was an adventurer who in the 1920's, completed the third sole circumnavigation ever completed in history. This book describes his trans-Atlantic crossing as he is running out of food and water and the boat is failing.

The other book that I usually suggest to authors who are not life long sailors but who are writing sailing episodes is the book, "Shipkiller' by Justin Scott. While Scott's characters are a bit cartoon like, he absolutely understands sailing and the way that boats behave and that comes through unequivocally in his vivid sailing scenes.

Jeff


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Jeff_H said:


> If you don't mind I would like to suggest a few points which you may be fully aware of. The choice of a boat like the Explorer 44 definitely has plot implications. Since only you know what you are trying to accomplish in this portion of the plot only you will know if this is the message that you want to send.
> 
> Within the plot there may be reasons why you might chose this particular boat, or specific motavations embedded in the character of the person who picks the boat which might lead them to select the Explorer 44, but in chosing such a marginally suitable boat, if you wish the story to be believable, you will probably need to write a clear exposition of those motivations into the story.
> 
> ...


I'm not buy'n it. Our friend in Homestaed Fl. crossed the Atlanic twice in 5 and 1/2 foot boats. So many epic long voyages have been done in much lesser boats. There is no way, I could'nt do any of the propsed legs of her fictional voyage in an explorer 44. There is just no way. Some dude just rowed across the Atlantic! You are over thinking it. I propose a challange, some one donate an explorer 44 to me so I can do one of the legs.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

DeeB said:


> Jeff, that's a true mine of info, thank you.
> 
> So to summarise quickly, the extra load for such an itinerary on such a boat could end up making the experience uncomfortable. Excellent, as I said before, the person who picks the boat wants to challenge the intending recipient on that journey.
> Secondly, they may arrive a little thinner than they left and considerably dirtier. Not a problem either.


Sounds like your "wealthy donor" character is a bit of a sadist...


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

I think Explorer 44 is an excellent choice for a book crossing. Fast, complicated, dangerous in heavy weather, what's not to like in a good story? These trimarans have a lot of storage capacity in their outrigger hulls. But getting to it in heavy weather can be rather risky.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

The Atlantic is the easy part. I have no doubt that the Explorer could do the Gibralter to Panama part. Its the long Pacific legs that seem questionable. But more to the point, chosing to this boat for this voyage, just like crossing the Atlantic in a 5 1/2 boat, is a stunt. Unless a the plot of the book makes a case for why the heroine wants to do a stunt, choosing this boat is simply is a non-sequitur. 

Maybe this is just me, but when an author stoops to selecting such a questionable design, unless there is some very specific seamless explanation within the plotline that drives the basis for chosing this particular design, I would immediately peg this as an author who did not understand boats, or was picking a boat simply for the drama of it all; both of which puts the author in the spot light and the plot in the wings. To me, choosing a major 'prop' solely for the drama it will add runs counter to my belief about what makes a good book work. In the best books, the reader is immersed in the story and the author's hand is totally invisible. 

In this case, by purposely choosing a boat that no experienced sailor would chose for this purpose, the author's presence becomes as obvious as mystery TV series formulaic need to wrap up the crime before the end an hour except the week before sweeps week. If the reader is at all knowldegable of sailing and boats, the book is suddenly relegated to pulp fiction. 

As to lots of storage in the outer hulls, its true that there is a lot of volume in the outer hulls, but weight distribution is critical on tri's like these (this is not a Piver after all) and so you can't put much weight out there. Remember with the wide beams on these boats that every pound you put in the leeward hull is a disproportionate amount of stability lost, and roll moment of inertia gained. Never a good thing. 

Jeff


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

^^^^^ What Jeff_H said ^^^^^



> Sounds like your "wealthy donor" character is a bit of a sadist...


Unless torturing the heroine is the object of the voyage, it sounds too contrived, like the zillion movies in which someone hears weird noises from the basement and moseys down into the dark at the bottom of the stairs with neither light nor weapon, when anyone with two brain cells to rub together would say, "NO!".

The ocean makes long voyages, especially semicircumnavigations, hard enough without saddling someone with a marginally suitable boat (no disrespect to the 44).


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Any time I've been zooming along off shore on a trimaran, I've been nothing but comfy and happy with my speed. Why ya'll are likening it torture, I don't understand. The choppy and bumpy Atlantic has alway's been lees comfy to me than the Long rolling Pacific swells. At times being hove to for day's in my little sloop, caught in a norther seemed like torture and I wonder why I do it to my self when it's happening. In those moments I would welcome the movement of a 44' trimaran. Land luubers think of any ocean crossing in a smallish (under 100 foot) sail boat as a stunt. It's a matter of perspective. It reminds me of my sister, she won't drive it unless it's the latest model with the butt warmer and the computer that talks to her. Long distance off shore sailing in it's self is a challange. To do it in a brand new, beefed up, explorer 44, to me would be a cake walk compared to a lot of my voyages on smaller boats.


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## johnnyquest37 (Feb 16, 2012)

DeeB: With all due respect for the extremely intelligent and immenently knowledgable sailors on this forum, I humbly suggest that the perfect boat for your story is a Gunboat. Fast, elegant, not difficult to sail, great ocean performance, and the boat is sexy enough to be one of your main characters.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I agree that the speed of a trimarran is exhilarating and boats like these can be a thrill to sail on a short passage. I also think that a boat like the Explorer 44 looks like a great boat in certain ventues, one that would be fun to sail. But the limited weight capacity and weight distribution issues were one of the reasons that I sold my trimarran and is why I have never owned one since. 

But the argument is not whether the Explorer 44 is a good boat, but more of one whose very presence relative to the voyage would disrupt the credibility and flow of the story line. Its a lot like the movie 'Wind'. If you are ever feeling down and dissed, and you need some adulation from some fellow sailors, all you need to do is stand before some sailros and blurt out, "Its time to break out the Womper". Suddenly, you are the sailing equivalent of Jerry Seinfeld, cracking up an audience with a pithy comment on society. 

And it did not take sailors to perceive the silliness of the Womper. People who knew nothing about boats would ask me about that scene since it somehow seemed illogical to them. 

To me, the choice of this particular boat is just another Womper, a cheap dramatic gimmick, that is unless the author can come up with a compelling reason that is seamlessly part of the plotline to chose this design.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Whats funny to me, is, here we are on SAILING forum. And every body is say'n , oh you can't cross the oceans on that, or that boat will never do it, that would be torture. Come on.
The pointy it end is the front, the triangle cloth thing catches the god dang wind, and go. 
Once again it seems the majority of nay sayers are Chessy sailors or there abouts. Jeez.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

I keep going back Chris W.'s web sight and looking at the thing. it's fine. More of a boat than my little Soverel 28. More of a boat than that father and son rounded the Horn in.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

So Dee, are you seeing your heroine doing something like this?


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

Once again, thanks to everyone for their precious input.

I would just like to point out that fiction, unless it _wants_ to be utter fantasy, only reflects the reality of human nature. Even then, the author who can completely detach his story from any aspect of humanity is yet to start writing.

In the 'real' world, people do things that may not seem quite right to others. Some are deemed too conservative, some too little. It's a matter of perspective. We make mistakes, lots of them and all the time. So condemn a real sailor (or a fictitious one) for choosing a boat that is 'not quite right' (in your opinion but not necessarily that of others) because it would make a journey tough or neigh impossible? What, you mean to tell me that you've never met or even heard of someone who did exactly the same and still succeeded? Surely you can't be saying that it's okay for these things to happen in real life but not in fiction...

If people didn't attempt the impossible because they had to or just felt compelled to, the United States of America would still be a vast expanse of uncharted land.

Apart from that, I can think of a dozen of ways to get around the difficulties mentioned by Jeff (as well as others) and still make the story work. And that's before I even start thinking about it.
As I have pointed out to you before, Jeff, there are many things you don't know about my characters, let alone the story. So making assumptions as to whether they would do this or wouldn't do that is, at best, ambitious.

I wish I could tell you more about the story, if only to put your mind(s) at rest. Those who have written already, I am told they are numerous in this community, will understand why I can't. All I am able to do is give my assurance that the reason(s) why the boat is not exactly fit for the purpose of that particular journey _makes complete sense_. Until you get to read the manuscript or, even better, the book, you're going to have to take my word for it.

I perfectly get all the points that have been made on this thread, agree with those I already knew about and trust you on those I didn't -although I will check 

Thanks again to everyone for their help on this thread. I intend to post more in the future and hope to the sea gods that they will generate as much controversy -it is a mine of inspiration.

Dee


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

When I posted the foiling tri video I was curious if something like this may be what you may have in mind for the story – some breakneck speed sailing in a somewhat fragile boat to complete the quest.

I don’t remember you saying this was a sailing story. I’ve taken it to be a story that has a sailing backdrop to replace a land-based backdrop. That would mean the typical reader wouldn’t be a knowledgeable sailor and therefore technical details aren’t as much an issue.

In choosing a lightning fast but not bluewater tested sailboat, an author could use it to outrun a storm that might otherwise break it apart. Laying the groundwork for the reader to understand this could add to the suspense. It’s fiction. The author controls the weather too. 

Good luck!


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

I am putting this at the end of the thread (well, maybe anyway) so it is in a more prominent position.

THIS (see below) was a ****ty comment on my part. It was bad tempered, bitchy and arrogant, as well as a few other things that don't reflect well on me at all. I was rather ashamed when I re-read it, albeit too late.

I have apologised to the lady but it would have no value at all if I didn't do it as publicly as I had made the comment in the first place, so here goes.

No amount of frustration can justify such rudeness and I am truly sorry.

The term 'd***h**d' was previously mentioned on this thread (by me, in the same moment of grumpiness). So that everyone knows, in the light of what is quoted below, I am applying it to myself as well.



DeeB said:


> That's only one of the very many reasons why you're not writing this book
> 
> Let me handle the plotting and in exchange I promise not to tell you how to sail your boat.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Dee, I think you should start another thread asking if your characters should carry a gun on the boat. Trust me, it'll be fun.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

There is such a thing as too much logic. If we really think, as passage makers on little plastic boats, about what we are doing, it's kinda friken crazy. Over think it, loose faith in the boat's ability to do what it was built to do, and we're just going to sail in circles around the bay. Which is fine for 90% of the sailors out there. It's Grit that pushes us and our boat over the horizon. Some can and do, some can't and won't.


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## joebeach (Aug 16, 2011)

Minnesail said:


> Dee, I think you should start another thread asking if your characters should carry a gun on the boat. Trust me, it'll be fun.


Nope, that's been done to death - BUT - which anchor/s to carry! As potential plot devices they're bloody staggering! Anchors are literally the literary sine qua non of any fast, fragile, feckless, feline bluewater big bad boat race against nature, nurture, time, and all the odds....


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## ShoalFinder (May 18, 2012)

You know what makes for a compelling story? Tension. Bad odds. When people accomplish things that aren't supposed to happen, when they rise above, we root for them. Rocky wasn't supposed to beat Apollo, and it took Rocky II to make it happen. If the heroine in the story jumps aboard a mega yacht with 16 EPIRBS and 4 life rafts with seven years worth of food and water, with full machine shop in the lazarrette, then everyone on SN will be happy and the book will be a suckfest.

Yes, it has to be plausible. No, the average reader doesn't give a flying hoot whether the boat can do 6 knots or 8 in real life. If you add up all the people in the world who know better and then subtract that number from total book sales... yeah. Nobody cares. Plausible is good enough. 

I want action. I want to root for someone. 

Voyage of the Liberdad was a fantastic book- because Josh Slocum and his family should have died and they didn't. They sailed a homemade open boat from South America to New England after being shipwrecked, or basically marooned in BFE. Had he come on SN asking how to get home, he'd have been told to get a job hauling coconuts in Brazil because there's no way to do what he wanted to do.

Sailing Around The World Alone - the consummate sailing book. Josh Slocum once again would have told every man on Sail Net to go take care of their vagina because he had some sailing to do. Is there one person in this forum who would have *built* the Spray to begin with, and then sailed a glorified oyster scow around the world alone? Of course not because that can't be done and any moron would know this instinctively. Well, except of course that he actually did it.

I know I'm rough around the edges and that many won't appreciate my choice of language or hyperbole. Well, get over it. I'm a nice guy, but I like to blow **** up and shoot holes in stuff and I travel around with burly brutes who like to do these kinds of things, too. 

I want to read a book about some badass woman who can make chicken salad out of chicken $**t when the chips are down. I want the villain to punch her in the face and instead of laying there in the fetal position waiting for help, she gets up and puts boot to ass. I want her to reach over to the side of the cockpit and grab her RockDawg Signature Series winch handle. I want the villain spitting bloody chicklets and escaping, because if he doesn't there can't be a second book.

But that's just me.


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## manatee (Feb 27, 2013)

I think we're disappointed because we were asked to recommend "the perfect boat" for this voyage, only to find that the boat is to be used to inject melodrama into a story that doesn't need it (or shouldn't). Unless extensive modifications are specified, I see Xena, the Sailor Princess, telling her deep-pocketed puppetmaster to take a long walk off a short pier.



> Had he come on SN asking how to get home, he'd have been told to get a job hauling coconuts in Brazil because there's no way to do what he wanted to do. ....Is there one person in this forum who would have *built* the Spray to begin with, and then sailed a glorified oyster scow around the world alone? Of course not because that can't be done and any moron would know this instinctively. Well, except of course that he actually did it.


I yield to no one in my admiration for Captain Slocum. He rebuilt Spray in a pasture, from keel up, by hand, by himself, surrounded by skeptics and critics. Cap'n Josh had one magnificent advantage: he was working with WOOD, a material as anathema to most sailnetters as sunlight to a vampire.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

This thread had become La La Land.


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## Capt.aaron (Dec 14, 2011)

Perfection is relative. I think an Explorer 44 would be perfect for me, and complete torture to others. The perfect boat in this case is what's perfect for her story, not what a bunch of Sunday sailors would pick.


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## ShoalFinder (May 18, 2012)

She's writing a book about someone who sails a sailboat. She's not buying one. 

She is not writing for a sailboat design trade magazine. It's fiction.

Jason Bourne can't beat up ten guys at once or shoot 20 rounds from a 15 round magazine- in real life. Yet somehow the movies are exciting.


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## Bloody John Kid (Mar 28, 2012)

That's a good ride, but shouldn't the characters have a quirkier boat, making the boat a character also...?


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## sonosail (Mar 17, 2008)

I would just KILL for that French Class 40 (with what appears to be a lifting keel, though they don't specify ). I could even keep it at a slip where I am. 
But 350,000 Euro's? for a 2003 vintage design? Is it that much of a premium for the lifting keel? Like everyone else, I want a boat with 20' draft so I can BLAST upwind, and then push a button so that it immediately becomes 2', so I can power in to my little slip. 
An idle fantasy, I know. No sin in dreaming.


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## FSMike (Jan 15, 2010)

I just keep looking at the Explorer 44 video on Chris Whites website and thinking -- IwannagoforarideIwannagoforarideIwannagoforetc.etc.


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## DeeB (Aug 16, 2013)

manatee said:


> I think we're disappointed because we were asked to recommend "the perfect boat" for this voyage, only to find that the boat is to be used to inject melodrama into a story that doesn't need it (or shouldn't).


Oh then you should rest easy, because I am getting a lot of positive feedback on this choice from professional skippers, full-time cruisers and people who have either completed a similar journey or sailed similar boats.

They all agree, together with Chris White himself, that the E44 is perfectly suited for the journey. Everyone, including Chris, also tells me that not only could the Explorer 44 make it easily but at the end of the trip would be in condition to do it again many times.

In other words, I have found the perfect boat, that is to say the boat that will allow me NOT to inject any melodrama in a part of this novel that (indeed) doesn't need any.

Having the backup of all those professionals and awesome sailors, I am confident that this choice was the correct one.

Not to mention that it is a beauty of a boat, with which I may be falling in love too


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