# Wet Wood Epoxy?



## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Has anyone had ANY experience with this stuff?









I have a small area of wet core around this chain plate (maybe 10 sq inches). 








The manufacturer's promise that it is;


> a two-part liquid epoxy that cures in the presence of water. It adds strength and stability to wood decks, and fills under buckled and warped planking, eliminating the need to replace planks...


... is very appealing.

My plan is to 
remove the U bolt (done)
cut two 1" holes in the outer deck (around each leg) of the U bolt (done - the wood is wet, and dark, but firm)
use an allen wrench, keyed in a drill chuck, to remove as much wet/rotted wood as possible
vacuum out all the crud
tape the bottom of the holes through the deck
use Wet Wood Epoxy to seal the wood. 
To restore the deck, I plan to

use West Six10 epoxy (in a tube) to fill the holes (9600 psi compressive modulus)
cover the patched area with Evercoat Polyester Gel-paste
re-bore the holes for the U bolt legs
countersink the holes
re bed the chainplate with Butyl Tape
replace nuts and washers

However, I have Googled the product and can find NO reviews of it anywhere. (I have found pointers to reviews that ended up as dead ends. This make me very suspicious...

Pointers and past experience would be greatly appreciated.

TIA


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

You're really better off replacing the core material. Wet core takes forever to dry out and injecting epoxy just makes doing a proper repair much more difficult in the end.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

As long as the core (balsa?) is wet it will rot eventually, epoxy surrounded or not. And when you fix it properly next time the epoxy you used this time will only make the repair harder. I think the wet core should be removed and replaced with new dry core. 
West System has G-Flex epoxy which also sticks to wet wood and even works underwater. http://westsystem.com/ss/assets/Uploads/WEST-SYSTEM-launches-G-Flex-Epoxy.pdf
But I don't think I would use it as you wish to.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

If wood is firm - it can't be balsa  Balsa is fairly soft even when dry, and becomes soggy-cardboard-consistency as soon as it's even slightly wet, more so if it's dark. 
Is the deck soft?
Is there delamination?

If it's plywood and is wet but firm, there is no delamination and deck is otherwise in ok shape - it might be best to remove only some, replace with thickened epoxy to seal the edge and put it all back together. That will hold for a long long time and you can always do a proper repair (from below, replacing core) later on if/when things get worse (and they may just stay as is)

Also, I see in this photo a stanchion base with failed seal and a fill cap whose seal is unknown (but generally I assume these things to be inserted right into the hole in cored deck and sealed with silicone - yes, I know, assume the worst  ). 
So, if the area really has ingress of moisture, you probably need to seal those other items too - or else the work may be in vain.

In fact, I find that most moisture gets into decks not by way of larger openings like chaiplates (where water can often drain down below) but by way of smaller holes made by directly screwed in fasteners, where water has no way to drain below and travels through core to find an outlet.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd point out that the stanchion base appears to have a GASKET, and they tend to be the worst way to "seal" the stanchion to the deck.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Thanks Guys,

Yes, the core is balsa... (and I said firm, not hard). To be clear, however, there is NO flexing on the deck, the balsa and glass are still laminated, and the balsa, while moist, is not spongy (yet).

As I mentioned above, the area that I am concerned about is currently only 10" square (approx 3" x 3"). I would hate to rip open the entire deck for such a small area. I would wait for a larger area to get mushy before I start such an onerous repair... 

Also, I have had an off line conversation with MS about another boat that had moisture in decks. The impression that I was left with is that so long as the situation isn't bad, or getting worse, a little moisture (note that the needle isn't pegged) is not the end of the deck. (Although I may have miss interpreted him. - MS please feel free to set me straight.)

brak and 'Dog- Thanks for noticing the other stuff in the picture. I agree the gasket has got to go. Also, the PO of this vessel was the king of silicone... I plan to re-bed EVERYTHING before winter is over (and we're just getting started) Fortunately, she's under shrink wrap, and I have room to work under there.

I have read that a cure for the fungus that attacks the wood is to treat it with (and I know that you're going to love this)... 
Propylene Glycol! (aka Anti-freeze). I haven't decided to do it, but I can only imaging that putting Prestone in the hole is just going to make the balsa more wet.

I looked at the both the West G-Flex, and this stuff. Of the two, Boatlife really markets the wet wood characteristics of the product. Maybe I'm drinking their Kool-aid... 

I agree with 'Dog that it may take forever to dry out (especially if I put anti-freeze in there).

Again, has anyone out there ever used the stuff pictured in my first post? I believe that it has been around since before 2005, but I can not find any first hand experience (good or bad) on it, other than the manufacturer's claim.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

It is hard to find out much about the Boatlife product. Jamestown and a few other online discounters sell it but it is not on the Boatlife website as far as I can tell. But their other famous product is - Git-Rot. And it specifies dry wood only. Petrified rot? The Wet Wood Epoxy sounds like a miracle product. I have been around long enough and seen enough claims go unfulfilled that I don't believe in miracles anymore - if I ever did. 
If it is not a large area and is not really wet, as the meter shows, I think you would be better to leave it and monitor it rather than go for the miracle cure. Fix it properly in the future by replacing the core. But certainly rebed the stanchion base properly with overdrilled holes epoxy filled and countersink the bolt holes before using butyl or whatever you choose.

My first thought about anti-freeze is that I don't think much will stick to it after that treatment.
You say the deck doesn't flex. It is a small area and if the inner and outer skins are thick enough - as they are in my CS27 - wet core doesn't create a soft spot unless it is very large. My boats wet areas are visible by meter but no flexing anywhere.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I share your skepticism.

I did find a (really poorly written) How To Use sheet, filed under Technical Info, on their site. Come to think of it, their entire site is rather incomplete... both of which are warning signs...

I may give it a go, if for no other reason, just to post my experience here.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

eherlihy said:


> I share your skepticism.
> 
> I did find a (really poorly written) How To Use sheet, filed under Technical Info, on their site. Come to think of it, their entire site is rather incomplete... both of which are warning signs...
> 
> I may give it a go, if for no other reason, just to post my experience here.


From that how-to it sounds like the product is designed for wood decks rather than FRP wood core anyway.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Great, I nominate you head of questionable product research or












eherlihy said:


> I share your skepticism.
> 
> I did find a (really poorly written) How To Use sheet, filed under Technical Info, on their site. Come to think of it, their entire site is rather incomplete... both of which are warning signs...
> 
> I may give it a go, if for no other reason, just to post my experience here.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

brak said:


> From that how-to it sounds like the product is designed for wood decks rather than FRP wood core anyway.


Wood decks tend to dry out a lot better than wood core does.


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## josrulz (Oct 15, 2006)

A few folks who own/work on wooden boat recommended this stuff to me for a particular wet-wood project last year:

CPES Rot Doctor

I ended up replacing the wood, so I have not used it personally, and I don't know if it's the best solution for your particular needs. But since there's some discussion over epoxies for wet wood, I thought I'd post the link because it was heavily recommended to me.

It might be worth some research if you decide that an epoxy for wet wood suits your needs.

FYI: I'm not affiliated in any way with these folks (like I said, I haven't used the stuff--just heard good things).

-J


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

That stuff is not designed for or recommended for WET WOOD CORE...It is for repairing or remedying DRY ROTTED WOOD, which is generally far drier than wet core material every will be. Very little will bond sufficiently to saturated wet wood, especially if it is decaying. Removal and replacement is really the only true solution-everything else is a stop-gap measure and most will make the future replacement much more difficult.



josrulz said:


> A few folks who own/work on wooden boat recommended this stuff to me for a particular wet-wood project last year:
> 
> CPES Rot Doctor
> 
> ...


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## josrulz (Oct 15, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> That stuff is not designed for or recommended for WET WOOD CORE...It is for repairing or remedying DRY ROTTED WOOD, which is generally far drier than wet core material every will be. Very little will bond sufficiently to saturated wet wood, especially if it is decaying. Removal and replacement is really the only true solution-everything else is a stop-gap measure and most will make the future replacement much more difficult.


Fair points, SD. No doubt that core replacement is always best when there's wet rot, if it's possible.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

The Boat Life stuff is a MARKETING gimmick. Read the words carefully. "cures in the presences of water". Most any mixed epoxy will do this, cure in the presence of water. Epoxy will cure in-water, try it. Just mix up some west and drop a blob into a glass of water. Let it sit and it will cure, however it won't bond to the water just as the magical Boat Life stuff wont bond well to wet wood...  Epoxy is epoxy and none of it BONDS well to wet wood.

That deck is not overly wet according to your meter. I would simply re-bed it and go sailing. Those gaskets Pearson used are a JOKE lose them FAST!!

I don't like sealing in moisture, any level of it, by epoxy potting holes but that is your choice. It still won't stick well to the damp balsa but may prevent any more ingress should a deck fitting leak. A well bedded deck will also prevent anymore water ingress...
*
Gasket Video (LINK)*


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Do both... and increase the security... and also, I'd point out that cutting off the oxygen helps reduce the rot rate.



Maine Sail said:


> I don't like sealing in moisture, any level of it, by epoxy potting holes but that is your choice. It still won't stick well to the damp balsa but may prevent any more ingress should a deck fitting leak. A well bedded deck will also prevent anymore water ingress...
> *
> Gasket Video (LINK)*


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## SJ34 (Jul 30, 2008)

If the boat is in storage for the winter why not remove the hardware and dry it out? Then you can treat the dried out core before re-installing the hardware.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Actually brak was on the right track.

It rained today, for the first time since the cover has been put on. I visited the boat to check the weather-proof-ness and noticed that the wood is NOT balsa, but is marine plywood.

Unfortunately, rain is travelling down the shrouds and covering the deck. It is also running right into the holes that I bored through the deck.

Here is the deck - wet with water from today's rain...;









And here is a pic of the exposed core;








You can clearly see that it is plywood (you can see the laminate).

I have decided NOT to bother with the Wet Wood Epoxy, but will still use the Six10 to provide support for the deck.

RE: MS' preference not to seal the water in (sounds logical to me); after the deck repair is complete, I will drill several small holes from inside the head locker into (but not through) the core.

Thanks again!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Marine plywood was often used as a core material in heavy load areas. IMHO, it has the worst characteristics of both balsa (it rots) and foam core materials (it allows water to migrate quickly and delaminate large areas of the deck fairly quickly). If you want to learn more about cored GRP construction in boats, you might want to read *this article I wrote.*


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I believe that the manufacturer used Marine-Ply on the decks, and end-grain balsa on the cabin top. Actually, I KNOW that they used balsa on the cabin top (I had to remove the hatches to send them out for replacement of the lens).

BTW - SD I sent you a PM, but haven't heard back. Are you interested in that 3½ gallon plastic bucket that we talked about? Please PM me.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

There is a big NO-NO in your first pic (sorry I cannot link it, have no posts): you use the lifelines to support your cover frame. The wind load will lead to constant movement of the lifelines and thus stanchions and loosen them. 

A winter frame should at no point make contact with the lifelines.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> There is a big NO-NO in your first pic (sorry I cannot link it, have no posts): you use the lifelines to support your cover frame. The wind load will lead to constant movement of the lifelines and thus stanchions and loosen them.
> 
> A winter frame should at no point make contact with the lifelines.


From what I see his yard mostly did it right. There is a perimeter board and cross ties to prevent a snow load from loading the stanchions inward. While i prefer to see the cross ties closer to the stanchions I highly doubt there will be any issue.

Our boat yard has used a similar method for over 25 years with no issues what so ever..


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

Maine Sail said:


> From what I see his yard mostly did it right. There is a perimeter board and cross ties to prevent a snow load from loading the stanchions inward. While i prefer to see the cross ties closer to the stanchions I highly doubt there will be any issue.
> 
> Our boat yard has used a similar method for over 25 years with no issues what so ever..


Maine, I GREATLY value your opinion but I still beg to differ. From what is seen in the picture, the frame is tied to the stanchions and the cross tie rests heavily on the lifeline. I would expect that the resulting static uneven load exercised by the lifelines on the stanchions over many months is not a good thing by itself.

Add violent movement of the cover in storms with all forces transferred to the stanchions and I would not be surprised if they move enough to break the seal.

I built a winter cover for my boat which is entirely independent of the lifelines.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Credit where it's due... I put up the frame based on MS' excellent post elsewhere in this forum.

The yard had never heard of erecting a perimeter frame. Their method is to wrap the boat in shrinkwrap, and let the stanchions bear the horizontal and vertical load. However, I disconnected the lifelines and, while it may appear in the picture above that they are supporting the cross ties, in fact they are not supporting anything. The cross ties are are screwed into the perimeter frame. The lifelines are actually loose.

Look closely at the curve/sag in the lifeline between last stanchion and the bow pulpit;









The perimeter frame is supported vertically by tie wraps run through the upper holes in the stanchions.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> Maine, I GREATLY value your opinion but I still beg to differ. From what is seen in the picture, the frame is tied to the stanchions and the cross tie rests heavily on the lifeline. I would expect that the resulting static uneven load exercised by the lifelines on the stanchions over many months is not a good thing by itself.
> 
> Add violent movement of the cover in storms with all forces transferred to the stanchions and I would not be surprised if they move enough to break the seal.
> 
> I built a winter cover for my boat which is entirely independent of the lifelines.


You can beg to differ, that's fine, but my own boats have used a similar method to Eherlihy's for the better part of 15+ years and my own boat yard has done this for over 25 years, on approx 200+ boats per winter, which is approaching 5000 coverings with no issues. What you claim "_will_" happen has not, and we get LOTS of snow and wind up here.

With the right design there is minimal loading of the stanchions and with a good pitch the snow never even stays on the shrink wrap cover.

With a canvas cover I would go direct to the deck because they hold snow, rather than shed it, but with shrink wrap, perimeter boards, cross ties and the proper pitch, this design works very, very well. The center ridge pole is taking the brunt of the load. On a well built boat the stanchions should be able to take a LOT more than what the cover loading will be with a well designed shrink wrap cover.

When you consider that perhaps 75-80% of the boat yards that do shrink wrapping DO NOT use perimeter boards or cross ties and they still have very few issues, if any, it makes one really question the *"big NO-NO"* and the "_*will lead to constant movement of the lifelines and thus stanchions and loosen them.*_" clauses..










Right after 9" of wet heavy stuff. Just clears itself.. 









I like custom covers, would love to have one, but have seen to many collapse. They tend to collect the snow rather than shed it. My friends Tim & Rich have both had Fairclough covers collapse here in Maine.









Photos courtesy Mahalo:

















P.S. Sorry for the thread drift...


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

eherlihy said:


> Credit where it's due... I put up the frame based on MS' excellent post elsewhere in this forum.
> 
> The yard had never heard of erecting a perimeter frame. Their method is to wrap the boat in shrinkwrap, and let the stanchions bear the horizontal and vertical load. However, I disconnected the lifelines and, while it may appear in the picture above that they are supporting the cross ties, in fact they are not supporting anything. The cross ties are are screwed into the perimeter frame. The lifelines are actually loose.
> 
> ...


OK, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks.


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## MastUndSchotbruch (Nov 26, 2010)

Maine Sail said:


> You can beg to differ, that's fine, but my own boats have used a similar method to Eherlihy's for the better part of 15+ years and my own boat yard has done this for over 25 years, on approx 200+ boats per winter, which is approaching 5000 coverings with no issues. What you claim "_will_" happen has not, and we get LOTS of snow and wind up here.
> 
> With the right design there is minimal loading of the stanchions and with a good pitch the snow never even stays on the shrink wrap cover.
> 
> ...


OK, OK.

I was thinking of a canvas cover (which is what I have) and I understand that snow loads on a shrink wrap cover are much lower. Although wind forcres are probably not that different.

And I also see from eherlily's post that I had misinterpreted the photo and that the loads are not on the lifelines.

Just wanted to be helpful.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> Just wanted to be helpful.


All conversations about covers are good this time of year!!


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Actually,

Thank YOU for the question (although we are drifting quite far from Wet Wood Epoxy - Hasn't ANYONE used this stuff???). It is through sharing information, and challenging each other that we all learn... and help others that are too shy to ask...



MastUndSchotbruch said:


> OK, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Maybe we're all sceptical types who don't believe in miracle products or advertising bs.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

mitiempo said:


> Maybe we're all sceptical types who don't believe in miracle products or advertising bs.


Yep! If it had said "penetrates and bonds to wet wood" I would have reported them to the BBB for false advertising, but instead they are just misleading....

_*"Cures in the presence of water"*_ WTF does that mean for wet decks? NOTHING! I can pretty much guarantee it won't penetrate or bond well to wet core because it is nothing more than EPOXY. I would also predict that if you injected that stuff into a wet void it would again be delaminated in a few weeks. Sure, it cured, but did not bond well to the already wet wood.

You can thin it, make it not blush, have it wet out better than another brand, have it slow cure or fast cure but it still won't bond well or penetrate wood that is already wet, and I have seen this more times than I care to remember.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

If you can't find the time, or energy to do it right the first t? How will you find it the second time, and especially after it is mucked up? Bite the bullet, and just do it right...........*i2f*


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

Folks, it's simple. No product that I'm aware of DISPLACES water from wet deck core materials. For the product to be effective, it MUST displace the water already there. Do it the right way and be done with it.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

> Do it the right way and be done with it.


OK; I'll bite. What is the "right way" in this situation?

Here is the plan du jour;

remove the U bolt (done)
remove the U bolt (done)
cut two 1" holes in the outer deck (around each leg) of the U bolt (done - the wood is damp, NOT rotted - see pic below)








use an allen wrench, keyed in a drill chuck, to remove as much of the damp wood as possible (no rot)
vacuum out all the crud
tape the bottom of the holes through the deck
use West Six10 epoxy (in a tube) to fill the holes (9600 psi compressive modulus)
cover the patched area with Evercoat Polyester Gel-paste
re-bore the holes for the U bolt legs
countersink the holes
re bed the chainplate with Butyl Tape
replace nuts and washers


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

eherlihy said:


> *cut two 1" holes in the outer deck (around each leg) of the U bolt (done - the wood is damp, NOT rotted - see pic above)*
> use an allen wrench, keyed in a drill chuck, to remove as much of the damp wood as possible (no rot)


Ouch... You'll need to patch the top skin with more than just gelcoat and thickened epoxy or it will crack and separate again especially if the wood is damp.. Ideally you'll want cloth or mat or roving in there to keep your skin strength.... 1" is a big over bore. You can still carve out core and leave the skins mostly un-touched and the deck laminations intact and prevent water ingress...


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

*Next pass*


remove the U bolt (done)
remove the U bolt (done)
cut two 1" holes in the outer deck (around each leg) of the U bolt (done)
use a router to cut in ¼ inch to remove some of the damp wood and key into the existing deck
vacuum out all the crud
tape the bottom of the holes through the deck with packing tape
use West Six10 epoxy (in a tube) to amlost fill the holes (9600 psi compressive modulus)
push a couple of 1½ circles of fiberglass mat into the holes to bind with the deck
cover the patched area with Evercoat Polyester Gel-paste
re-bore the holes for the U bolt legs
countersink the holes
re bed the chainplate with Butyl Tape
replace nuts and washers

I'm loving this ...


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

That's better. I'm hoping the damp area doesn't extend beyond your cut or bonding issues could result. Also, gluing a plug in ply rarely works well. The best way to replace ply pieces is to scarph the new piece in, just like a normal repair on any other piece of wood. This gives bonding across a larger area and on all laminate levels.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Hmmm... Scarfing.... 
I suppose that I could cut plugs of marine plywood using the same hole saw, epoxy them in the hole, and epoxy/mat then gel coat over them.. It would be like installing a small piece of new core, and use a lot less epoxy...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I wouldn't use six10 epoxy. It's very expensive and has the problem of amine blush. I'd mix up thickened epoxy and just inject it using an empty caulk gun tube, which West Systems sells.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

MAS doesn't blush, mixes 2:1 and is what we use.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

CharlieCobra said:


> MAS doesn't blush, mixes 2:1 and is what we use.


One more vote for MAS - they have excellent products. No amine blush, very good quality, easy to mix.

I use MAS most of the time (although my current epoxy set is West, but only because I had to buy it on short notice at WM - will go back to MAS as soon as this can is out).


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## FlyingFeather (Nov 27, 2010)

I just cut 650 pounds of wet core, rotten beams and fiberglass out of my 42-year old, Sailcraft Iroquois Catamaran. All better now, 6-months later. I would like to summarize what I learned:
1. The thousands I spent having boat yard mechanics inject, apply and smear epoxy into rotten areas failed.
2. The "special" epoxy mixes never bonded with the wet core, or more importantly, the upper and lower fiberglass mat. Essentially the repairs were purely temporary, expensive and cosmetic.
3. The strength of your decking is in the bonding of the core to BOTH the upper and lower layers of glass. Good bonding is essential for that to occur.
4. I see your factory no slip looks good, so I would remove the mat from below, scrape all of the wet balsa out then use poly-ester, or vinyl-ester resin to re-bond core to the underside of your decking, then glass over the interior with a layer of 1 1/2 oz, then Biaxial, then 1 1/2 oz to finish up.
5. It probably will be easier to finish the interior ceiling rather than try to match a patch on the non-slip deck.
6. I have lost all interest in epoxy now that I have applied 55 gallons of vinyl-ester resin back into my boat. The poly and vinyls are what the boat was made from originally. AND what West Marine won't tell you is that you cannot bond the esters back to epoxy. Thus, any professional that has to follow your repair will have to tear out everything you have done.
7. You will be surprised at how fast you can complete a "real" repair compared to fooling around with "quick fix" short cuts.

Ed
Flying Feather Hull #49


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## FlyingFeather (Nov 27, 2010)

One more thing. I bought PVC foam core from a local boat builder. It is great to work with and soaks up resin, forming a fantastic bond. The strength is not in the core, but in the bond formed by the upper and lower glass mat to the core.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

Poly (or vinyl)-ester creates a weaker mechanical bond than epoxy. They are also extremely poisonous and, frankly, though they are good materials for their purpose, damage they do to one's health isn't worth it. If you can hire someone else to use these - good, if not - I would stick with epoxy. YMMV


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I would use only epoxy. As brak says better bond with any polyester/vinylester that is no longer green. Easiest to use, no dangerous fumes. I've used epoxy for over 20 years without any failures.

The part of your statement about tearing everything out makes no sense to me.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

brak said:


> One more vote for MAS - they have excellent products. No amine blush, very good quality, easy to mix.


Interesting - I just read up on MAS. Their slow hardener is reported not to produce amine blush, their medium hardener is "intended for moderate reactivity and *resistance* to amine blushing," and MAS Non-Blushing Fast Hardener data sheet states; "Caution: you may find amine blush on the surface after cure." Anecdotally, I found someone that stated that it will produce amine blush.

Looks like a viable alternative to West.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Amine blush isn't a real problem. It only tales a few minutes to wash it off with a scotchbrite pad and some water.


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## LookingForCruiser (Feb 7, 2007)

FlyingFeather said:


> 6. I have lost all interest in epoxy now that I have applied 55 gallons of vinyl-ester resin back into my boat. The poly and vinyls are what the boat was made from originally. AND what West Marine won't tell you is that you cannot bond the esters back to epoxy. Thus, any professional that has to follow your repair will have to tear out everything you have done.


I agree with most of what you wrote, but all the boat yards I'm familiar with use epoxy for repairs.

I own an Iroquois as well - although with less rot, it sounds like!


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

We just did a blister job using the "Fast" hardener with no amine blush.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

*Current Plan*

My current plan is to scarf a two cylinders of MacroCore Blue (SWL 4700 PSI) into where I removed the two plugs of Marine Ply. This stuff is designed to work as a core material, and has lots of pores to accept and mechanically bond with epoxy.








Here is a pointer to where you can read up on MacroCore; Custom Syntactic Systems Designed & Produced by Engineered Syntactic Systems

I know the owners of the company, and they are interested in how this preforms in this application.

If any of you are interested in trying this for a similar project, please PM me. Disclaimer: Note that I have NO Financial Interest in this company etc.

The current plan is to;

Cut two 1" diameter plugs of MacroCore Blue.
use a dremel to cut several ¼ inch rabbets into the existing wood core, to remove some of the damp wood and key into the existing deck
 vacuum out all the crud
tape the bottom of the holes through the deck with packing tape
use West Six10 epoxy (the stuff in a tube - because I already have it) to bond the MacroCore Blue plugs to the bottom skin of the deck, and into the marine ply core
push a couple of 1½ circles of fiberglass mat onto the top of the MacroCore and into the holes to bind with the deck
use more epoxy to wet out the mat, and bind into the deck
cover the patched area with Evercoat Polyester Gel-paste (because I already have it)
re-bore the holes for the U bolt legs
countersink the holes
re bed the chainplate with Butyl Tape
replace nuts and washers


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I like MAS and Progressive Epoxy Polymers epoxies. I have used System Three and West Systems as well. 

As for doing structural repairs, I wouldn't use polyester or vinylester resin, due to the stronger secondary (adhesive) bonding characteristics of epoxy resins. They're also easier to mix for the novice boat builder and a bit more forgiving than polyester or vinylester resin. The fact that they're also generally stronger (greater tensile and compressive strength) than polyester resin, means that the repair will generally be stronger with an epoxy resin. 

Also, IIRC some of the higher tech reinforcing fabrics, like kevlar and spectra cloth can't really be used with polyester or vinylester resin.

ED—

Don't forget to drill the holes for the u-bolt legs and pot them with thickened epoxy. Otherwise, the repair will have to be re-done.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

SD - Thanks, but If I use the MacroCore, I won't have to re-pot the holes. This stuff is impervious to moisture.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

eherlihy said:


> SD - Thanks, but If I use the MacroCore, I won't have to re-pot the holes. This stuff is impervious to moisture.


I see it is closed cell. However, I would still seal the holes with some epoxy, regardless. If water sits in those pores and freezes, it might cause a problem over repeated winter storage cycles. _Also, having a solid torus of thickened epoxy around each bolt hole gives the deck there additional compressive strength that it would not have without the epoxy there. _


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I wouldn't suggest mat on top of the MacroCore. Mat has little strength for one and also most mat is not compatible with epoxy. Mat is held together with a binding agent that has to dissolve in the resin used. Most mat, unless specifically stated, has binders that dissolve in polyester and not epoxy resin. I would cut a few layers of medium weight roving or biaxial instead.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Roving it is then!
 
Thanks!


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