# advice on sailing around Cape Hatteras?



## drakeParagon (Dec 8, 2011)

Hi everyone,

Greetings from Drake and Monique aboard Westsail 42 'Paragon' in Oriental, North Carolina.

We'll be pushing off in the first weather window after March 15th, to begin our 7000 nautical mile sail to Ireland via New York, Newport, Boston, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Greenland and Iceland.

Oregon Inlet at the north of Pamlico sound is unnavigable for Paragon due to shoaling from Hurricane Sandy. I'm looking for advice from anyone who has sailed out of Beaufort, NC, and then north and around Cape Hatteras and through the passageway between the two shoals, or outside of all the shoaling.

The hundreds of ships that have been sunk here in 'The Graveyard of the Atlantic' give me great pause. But I'd rather not sail ICW to Norfolk in 4 days.

Any info greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Drake

Drake Roberts 
sailing vessel 'Paragon' (a 1976 Westsail 42) 
Email: [email protected] 
Youtube: DrakeParagon's the Real Cruising Life - YouTube 
Blog: momo and the big blue world 
Facebook: www.facebook.com/DrakeParagon 
Twitter: twitter.com/DrakeParagon 
Google +: plus.google.com/u/0/104480343270877353851/posts


----------



## Greyhound37 (Mar 25, 2012)

If it were me I would be 25-45 miles off Hatteras to catch some of the stream north since your next stop is NY. No worries about Hatteras then.
Actually I am leaving Charleston 4.6 and heading north offshore. I will be 12-15 miles off Hatteras then come in the Chesapeake Bay


----------



## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Hi Drake,

Great question! I was thinking the same thing when I left Beaufort NC in June last year.

I take it you mean the shoals out from Cape Lookout?

I saw a passage at 34 29.1033 N	076 29.0331 W that looks fine on the chart.

The previous week I came up from the Bahamas intending on rounding Cape Hatteras but a 30 knot northerly popped up so I slipped into Beaufort to get drunk.
When I left Beaufort it was about 10 to 15 knots SE and the seas dead calm, smooth as a babies bum... but I am sure others would still be puking 

I left at the same time as another guy who knew the area and as he got ahead of me I thought I would cheat and just follow him!  

I expected him to zip accross some part of the shoal. But he didnt! He kept on heading down to the mark at 34 26.9674 N	076 28.3932 W

If he was playing it safe I thought I would too! 

Later that evening the wind died in the butt and I motored around hatteras. The best weather to go in 

If you meant off Diamond Shoals off Cape H, then as Greayhound says, keep out. The Gulf Stream picks up as soon as the water gets deeper. I was on the slope of the continental shelf. Heading to New York.

Have fun!


Mark


----------



## Andrew Burton (Oct 22, 2012)

I've done that trip a few dozen times and I am always very cautious of going around Hatteras. First, I would never take a short cut through C Lookout shoals; too easy to get in trouble there. I usually round Hatteras fairly close by the buoy and shoot north, giving myself the option of pulling in somewhere before I get to NY. You will need two and a half days to get to the first safe harbor. And the chances of getting a nice window much more than that this time of year are pretty slim.

Even if I'm heading to Newport the chances are 50/50 I will go through the city. I tend to stay as close to the beach as I can when I have westerlies, then I just have a nice easy sail, no matter what the wind speed...kind of like the way to transit the Gulf of Tuantepec. 

So if you're prepping to leave around Hatteras; watch passageweather.com for a nice window and don't leave if there are northerlies in the forecast, they very easily get nasty off that coast. watch for the small intense lows that often form quickly over the sounds and blast offshore. Not fun.

If I had a boat that could get up the intracoastal, the chances are 85% that I would head north that way, rather than take a chance on Hatteras.

Your priorities may be different from mine. I'm doing this with other people's boats, albeit as a professional with a very experienced crew. The last thing I want is an adventure!

I'll be about two weeks behind you with an old 45-foot sloop and am planning to take the ditch.

Good luck and a safe passage!
Andy


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Good you arent trying Oregon anyway a trecheous inlet. 

I am not a Hatterass lover and like to go outside the gulf stream, but have done the insoide route a couplke of times.

Looking for more than a 2 day window with no northerly component to the wind is the best way to go. You may also want to pull in to Cape May and wait for a similar to go the distance from Cape May to Block. Front comming through every few days this time of year. Also March is nortoriuos for noreeasterns off the Jersey coast. Stay safe. I also echo the route up the inland may be a better route. 
Dave


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Hi Drake!



drakeParagon said:


> We'll be pushing off in the first weather window after March 15th, to begin our 7000 nautical mile sail to Ireland via New York, Newport, Boston, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Greenland and Iceland.
> 
> Oregon Inlet at the north of Pamlico sound is unnavigable for Paragon due to shoaling from Hurricane Sandy. I'm looking for advice from anyone who has sailed out of Beaufort, NC, and then north and around Cape Hatteras and through the passageway between the two shoals, or outside of all the shoaling.


I've long since lost track of the number of times I've rounded Hatteras in both directions.

Don't run into Diamond Shoals. *grin* Everything else is easy.

Unless you're headed straight to Newport (or Ireland) the Gulf Stream really isn't relevant. It tips over along the NC coast and aims for England.

Inside of R2 (between the shoal and bouy) is fine as long as the weather is settled. If the wind is up in any direction the big changes in depth can make things bumpy. Outside R12 is nearly always fine (absent hurricanes).

Are you planning to stop in Norfolk or head straight to New York? Straight through or inlet hop?

If headed for NY I usually run up the 70' line (ish). The seas flatten out and I can usually still get a cell phone signal. *grin*

If inlet hopping from Beaufort NC you can easily make Little Creek, Atlantic City, and Sandy Hook in long days. Weather permitting anchoring is practical in all those places. Don't even think about Oregon Inlet.

Weather is everything, especially if you're pushing straight through. What do you use aboard for weather information?

Do you have an SSB radio or other long range comms on the boat? I'd be happy to chat with you about weather and other conditions on your jump, although you're better off checking in to the Waterway Net (if you have a ham license) or Cruiseheimers.


----------



## brokesailor (Jan 12, 2008)

Drake since you seem to be loaded ($) I would suggest a weather router. They will give you waypoints to shoot for taking advantage of weather and current. (Not the stream).


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

brokesailor said:


> Drake since you seem to be loaded ($) I would suggest a weather router. They will give you waypoints to shoot for taking advantage of weather and current. (Not the stream).


In my opinion the offshore sailor should his or her own best weather router. It's easy to get 98% of the information onboard in a timely way. You should be able to interpret it and make appropriate decisions. The ham and marine SSB nets get you that last 2%. It's not about cost, it's about self-sufficiency.


----------



## bjung (Apr 8, 2009)

Of course there is always the option of the "Slot"! 
http://www.coastalmariner.com/two-c...-cape-lookout-after-57-hatteras-runs-aground/


----------



## drakeParagon (Dec 8, 2011)

bjung said:


> Of course there is always the option of the "Slot"!
> http://www.coastalmariner.com/two-c...-cape-lookout-after-57-hatteras-runs-aground/


I think not. 
Thanks for the article and Coast Guard vid.
Drake


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

brokesailor said:


> Drake since you seem to be loaded ($) I would suggest a weather router. They will give you waypoints to shoot for taking advantage of weather and current. (Not the stream).





SVAuspicious said:


> In my opinion the offshore sailor should his or her own best weather router. It's easy to get 98% of the information onboard in a timely way. You should be able to interpret it and make appropriate decisions. The ham and marine SSB nets get you that last 2%. It's not about cost, *it's about self-sufficiency.*


I found those commercial weather routers totally waste of money and time. Been there and done that for many times. May be we don't have enough clout to gain a decent service from them. I understand they are big for the cruisers. Many organizations praise the service. I wonder if this is just "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours".

All the weather charts are readily available on the net. While in down time and not sailing, spend sometime to study at the weather charts, and then read their weather forecast, follow up by verifying with the actual weather. You will gain much more knowledge than paying 300 to 400 dollars 
for their service.

But that is just me sayin'.


----------



## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

Lots of advice here to which I can add very little having only done the Hatteras thing once. I would add, however, that 15 March might be a tad early. A month later would probably make for a better trip, especially if you're doing Hatteras to NY in a single hop.

If you're planning on stopping in Greenland you probably don't want to be there until the end of July, so that should give you lots of time to make your way north.

I'm planning on leaving Cape Cod around 15 June bound for Scotland. We may bump into you if we end up taking the northern route.


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

rockDAWG said:


> All the weather charts are readily available on the net.


Much less important than that all of those same products are available over weather fax, free, with inexpensive hardware. There is no excuse for an offshore sailor not having all the NOAA/NWS or UK Met products every day.


----------



## brokesailor (Jan 12, 2008)

Personally I think that it would be foolish for anyone to think that they can accurately make weather predictions using OPC charts and gribs alone (no offense Auspicious, just my opinion) on a trip of more than 3 days across an ocean. If you have the means the input from a weather router can be invaluable together with your input to the router on the conditions where you are located. 
Situations like TS Sean last year where even the professionals could not foresee the storm days in advance, the help of a router was invaluable for boats that were caught in the middle of it to get out of it. (With a couple of exeptions..,.)


----------



## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

brokesailor said:


> Personally I think that it would be foolish for anyone to think that they can accurately make weather predictions using OPC charts and gribs alone (no offense Auspicious, just my opinion) on a trip of more than 3 days across an ocean.


No offense taken at all. I fear that my suggestion was not sufficiently clear.

First, gribs are bad. Although US NOAA/NWS is working on it, they don't show fronts or major weather artifacts, where bad things happen. Don't get sucked in to technology. For the digit-heads I'll be happy to share the algorithms and where and why they break down.

OPC charts are good. HOWEVER, you can't launch offshore with a set of synoptics and expect to be okay. You should have the ability to receive weather faxes onboard every day. The full set are transmitted twice each day. If you already have a laptop you can be set up for $100US or less to receive weather fax on board. You should (my opinion) be able to look at a set of wefax and make good, responsible decisions about your tactical routing. You'll be looking at the same material that the weather routers are.

Herb Hilgenberg and Chris Parker do not have academic backgrounds in meteorology. If they can do it you can to. There are some challenges but you can do it, and you SHOULD. Be self-sufficient. Learn this stuff. If you are really sailing offshore your safety may depend on it. It's up to you.

The 3-day threshold is apt. I fully agree, and that defines my definition of sailing offshore. If you're 3 days from a bailout you are offshore. Less than that, you are coastal (or at least near-shore). Even US to Bermuda is offshore and you MUST (my opinion again) have a means to get weather information onboard. A router is better than nothing but cheaper AND better is getting the NWS or UK Met products onto the boat and making your own decisions.


----------



## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

From where you are - Oriental - why on earth would you want to go out around Hatteras (in MARCH, no less - perhaps the single most volatile month of the year weather wise near Hatteras), instead of running up inside to the Chesapeake? A route that probably adds 50 miles or more to the mouth of the Chesapeake than running up the ICW?

If you do go outside, better make sure there is no possibility of a front coming through before you can make the Chesapeake Entrance... I generally do like Auspicious mentions, right around the red nun "2" off Diamond Shoals, no problem in settled weather... Going further out in search of a push from the Stream this time of year is a fool's errand, in my opinion... Especially starting from Beaufort. It's one thing to hunt for the Stream if you're coming direct from the Bahamas, for example... But to go that far offshore and add that much distance to the inshore route right around Diamond Shoals, in search of a bit of fair current for a day or so, makes no sense whatsoever...

Again, especially in the month of March... Wait for a period of calm, and motor all the way around... Or, possibly catch a bit of SW breeze filling in north of Hatteras that generally presages the arrival of a front, nothing finer than sailing up along the beach north of Wimble Shoals in a SW breeze... Just be damn sure you're north of Cape Henry before the front arrives...

But, as long as you're gonna be doing that much motoring, why not do it inside?


----------



## brokesailor (Jan 12, 2008)

Again just my opinion but its OK for the likes of AJ Smith, Hank Schmidt and Auspicious to make a go across the pond with their knowledge of weather. If they find themselves in the middle of hell, like AJ did last fall, amoung others, his knowledge , fast boat and grit got him out of harms way without running for the epirb. For the average cruiser that makes the yearly crossing to the Caribbean he should use all the help he can get, including a router. 
Every trip I have made to St Martin and back we've always had daily contact with a router and I think it is a lot of help if anything else psychologically. If we don't agree on his recommendation we always discuss it with him and we come to a group decision.


----------



## jsaronson (Dec 13, 2011)

Auspicious,

"If you already have a laptop you can be set up for $100US or less to receive weather fax on board." Are you talking about an SSB radio?


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

brokesailor said:


> Situations like TS Sean last year where even the professionals could not foresee the storm days in advance, the help of a router was invaluable for boats that were caught in the middle of it to get out of it. (With a couple of exeptions..,.)


It was 2011 not in last year. I was in C1500. Weather router did not nothing for us. I am just Sayin'


----------



## brokesailor (Jan 12, 2008)

Dawg: Has it been over a year already? Boy does time fly after 50!


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

jsaronson said:


> Auspicious,
> 
> "If you already have a laptop you can be set up for $100US or less to receive weather fax on board." Are you talking about an SSB radio?


I am not Dave, but I guess this may be it

1. 








2. JV Comm 32
or HF Weather Fax
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/hf-weather-fax/id394199597?mt=8


----------



## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

brokesailor said:


> Dawg: Has it been over a year already? Boy does time fly after 50!


Think will even get better, please look forward to your 70's or 80's LOL


----------



## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

Drake,

If you are making landfall near NY, please let me know. I'd like to buy your crew a beer, if only to show my appreciation for the videos you made about towing that disabled sailboat awhile back.

I bet there are a few other sailnetters in the area that would join us too.

Regards,
Brad


----------



## obelisk (May 23, 2008)

keizerontherocks said:


> *I'm a rookie sailor about to embark on my first trip south from Nova Scotia, to the Florida Keys mid August. I am in no rush getting there and have planned many stops along the way. After reading all the articles of Cape Hatteras I am looking for advice on traveling around the Cape or avoiding it. I would prefer not to use the AICW(no disrespect to my universal atomic time bomb) but maybe that's best for my situation? It seems everyone that I've read about has had a much larger vessel then my C&C 27, but also I've noticed everyone has been traveling during the harsher months. Am I over thinking the danger that I've been stricken with since reading about Cape Hatteras? Any advice would be welcomed.*


You may have more to worry about than Hatteras, heading to the Keys in August...


----------



## obelisk (May 23, 2008)

Yes, hurricane season should be a big concern for you. The season really heats up in mid-august and peaks in September usually. There are no suitable places to pull in and ride out a hurricane between the mouth of the Bay and Morehead city and that is not even a great place. It's a long coast, especially in a C&C27, during hurricane season. 

You have the "luxury" of heading down the Ditch, something that my bridge clearance and draft will not allow. If it were me, and I must head south during the season, i would take that route. There's not much to see or experience between the Bay and Morehead city anyway, except being able to say you've been around Hatteras. I can say I have been around but I can also say I've been hammered a couple of times. It's not fun.


----------



## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Cape Hatteras has a perfect go around... go into Norfolk and use the ICW to Morehead City.
if you have EXCELLENT weather on board to show if there's a hurricane brewing then you may get to go around Hatteras... but that is more than the USCG VHF weather as it won't be far enough advanced to give you opt out time. I used satellite phone to download weather charts and that worked well on my last trip Caribbean to New York.

But don't stuff around with Hatteras... it's not called the graveyard of the Atlantic for no reason.


----------



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Take the ditch - it's a nice motor trip that is quite safe this time of year. I fished quite a bit out of Hatteras and Morehead City and I can tell you first hand that when the weather gets nasty it gets real nasty, and does so in a hurry. I ducked into the small bay behind The Hook one day to get out of the weather and spent the next four days there waiting to go back to Morehead City - it gets that bad.

The inlet at Morehead City is a piece of cake, especially when compared to Hatteras and Oregon inlets. You will find there are no other places to duck out of the weather between the mouth of Chesapeake Bay and Morehead City, which is a fairly long haul. You can, however, get relatively close to the beach, which allows some protection from a westerly wind, but anything closer than a half mile may get you in trouble. Lots of shifting bars out there to contend with, which is the reason Oregon Inlet essentially no longer exists. Oregon was never more than a slot through the surf, but that slot has long since silted in.

All the best,

Gary


----------



## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

keizerontherocks said:


> *I'm a rookie sailor about to embark on my first trip south from Nova Scotia, to the Florida Keys mid August. I am in no rush getting there and have planned many stops along the way. After reading all the articles of Cape Hatteras I am looking for advice on traveling around the Cape or avoiding it. I would prefer not to use the AICW(no disrespect to my universal atomic time bomb) but maybe that's best for my situation? It seems everyone that I've read about has had a much larger vessel then my C&C 27, but also I've noticed everyone has been traveling during the harsher months. Am I over thinking the danger that I've been stricken with since reading about Cape Hatteras? Any advice would be welcomed.*


The only reason for you to go out around Hatteras, is to be able to say afterwards that you did it... 

Makes little sense in such a boat, especially in summer when the prevailing breeze is likely to run between SW - SE... Moreover, I think the trip inside to Morehead is one of the nicer sections of the trip south inside, with lots of opportunities to do some sailing. Do the Pamlico Sound route instead of the Ditch, if you're lucky with the weather you can do a lot of sailing...

Also, the inside route affords some really nice chances to get off the beaten track, and visit some very nice places. I think the NC Sounds are perhaps the most underrated cruising ground on the east coast. Manteo is a very nice stop and is very boater-friendly, the Wright Brothers Memorial is a very worthwhile place to visit, and Ocracoke is one of my favorite places anywhere along the east coast. If you're in no particular hurry, you could easily find yourself hanging out there for a week, or more... With your boat, you might even think about trying to meander down thru Core Sound, that's an area I'd love to try to explore some day in a boat with shoal draft... Then there's Beaufort, and Cape Lookout Bight, more places you could easily linger for awhile. To visit those places after going out around Hatteras, you'd actually be adding more distance to the trip than if you'd gone into Norfolk, and down to Morehead inside...


----------

