# Need ideas on how to raise a sunk boat.



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

My 1966 Columbia 24 sank yesterday(9-2-07). Ive got to figure out some way to raise it. Ive already got a couple of donated airbeds, a compressor, a genset and a few divers to help out. Its in about 15' of water. If i can get it to float to the point where the cabin is at water level, i can pull it to the bank and let the tide go out then pump it out and it should right itself. 

Now, once its up, its time to fix the cockpit scuppers.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

You'll probably want some diving lift bags rigged and secured with lines passing under the hull. You'll want to raise her in an as upright a position as possible so airing up the cabin may be the first priority. I would not attempt to raise her on cabin pressure alone. Once you've got her decks awash I'd start pumping her out before moving her-no sense re-capsizing and starting all over. An ejector pump is very handy for that, where you'd find one I do not know, I've only seen them on ships.

Ejectors are used for de-watering holds and the like. Water is supplied to the ejector by another pump via a hose. The ejector has a discharge hose on it as well. The ejector, it's really a jet, is lowered into the flooded space and the water turned on to it. the advantage to it is that you need no electric or air lines going into the space. In your case, it would allow you to use a submersible pump running off a gen-set on another boat alongside while the ejector dewatered your boat.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I saw this on Popeye once. You just need to swim down to the bottom with a big ol' auger and drain the pond...

I'm strong to the finich 'cause I eats me spinach...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

You'll need some high-volume dewatering pumps... Gasoline or diesel powered ones, like those used by the USCG or SeaTow would be a good start.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Why did she sink, or is this not yet known?

(My condolences, by the way)


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

As previously mentioned, some professional lift bags will make this job much easier. One in the cabin and one each lifting the bow and stern. They are quite expensive to buy but maybe a commercial diver or supply will rent them to you. Good luck doing it with air mattresses. I have seen divers do it on the cheap with 55-gallon poly drums however. Once the boat is on the surface, a couple rented trash pumps (Home Depot etc.) will get dewatering done in a hurry.

All that being said, this is really a job best left to professionals.


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## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

A Columbia 24 underwater only weighs 3500 pounds. You can put two small boats (17 foot up to about 25 foot will work) over her separated by 4 by 4 wood beams lying on the bow and stern of the two boats. Put slings under the Columbia and lift with a come-along. You will only need to support 1750 pounds on each boat with only 857 pounds on each of the four lifting points. Its safe, controllable and cheap to get everything together. We have done this in places where we couldn’t get the barge and crane and when we didn’t have air bags handy.

Using old drums is difficult to setup and I wouldn’t do it that way. The company in Providence RI that makes the air bags will rent them out. I don’t have the name or number handy but an internet search will find them. Its easer to rig a bag then it is to rig an oil drum.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

Tartan34C said:


> You can put two small boats (17 foot up to about 25 foot will work) over her separated by 4 by 4 wood beams lying on the bow and stern of the two boats. Put slings under the Columbia and lift with a come-along. You will one need to support 1750 pounds on each boat with only 857 pounds on each of the four lifting points. Its safe, controllable and cheep to get everything together.


I'm sure it worked well for you but it sounds like a recipe for disaster for a bunch of recreational boaters and divers who have never raised a sunken vessel before.


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## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

Fstbttms said:


> I'm sure it worked well for you but it sounds like a recipe for disaster for a bunch of recreational boaters and divers who have never raised a sunken vessel before.


There are lots of imaginative ways to raise a boat. The first one I did was done by putting two kapok lifejackets on the top of the mast of a thirty foot wooden cutter that was in about forty feet of water. A diver went down and unbolted the keel and the wood boat floated up on her own and rolled over on her side with the lifejackets on the mast holding her from rolling upside down. We hammered plugs into the holes for the keelbolts and slide the mast out before pumping her dry and towing her to Norton's Shipyard in East Greenwich RI. The keel came along later after we put a dinghy over it and lifted the keel with a come-along on a sling under the dingy. It was the world's most stable dinghy with that keel hanging under it.

I think raising a boat while you are out of the water and above it is much safer then having drums pop up to the surface unexpectedly because it's so hard to secure them. Yes air bags are nice and safe but I don't think this group will find any so this is my suggestion based on real experience instead of just guessing about what might work. If you rig everything using a bit of common sense (something that's not so common today) you will be fine. Moving great weights is easy if you think about it and go slow. I just put a 3,800 pound Brown & Sharp milling machine into storage yesterday. It was moved entirely by using toe-jacks, pipe rollers, Johnson bars and a strong back. The hardest part of the job was planning it.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The boat sank since the cockpit scuppers are clogged and dont let it drain. Its been raining for the last few days and i just hadn't had the chance to get out there and run the pump. 

I think we can get it floating with the airbeds and then move it into shalower water. 

Pingpong balls would come out of it in a hurry, both side windows are broken out. This was my project boat that i havent had the money to haul out and bring home yet.


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## retclt (Nov 7, 2006)

While scuba diving a local lake a few years ago we moved a sunken Ford van by filling a bunch of tire inner tubes inside it. They work pretty well because you can squeeze them into all kinds of small places. You can get a bunch of them for real cheap. We moved it as a practical joke to other divers who frequented the area. Some of those guy's are probably still looking for it.

Sorry to hear about the bad luck.

I'd like to add a safety caution. It was not a safe thing we did and I would never move that van again. It was very unstable and dangerous. Deflating / popping those tubes scared the $#!% out of us. You're just going straight up. I wouldn't mind that.


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## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

sharkbait said:


> I saw an episode of mythbusters where they did it with pingpong balls. It took alot of balls.


That's a real thing and it was done to raise a cattle boat in the Far East somewhere but the location escapes me just now. It was also tried unsuccessfully during a salvage attempt on the Andrea Doria sunk off RI after a collision with the Stockholm. They used small balls that were just a little bigger then a Ping-Pong ball and pumped them down into the ships. They didn't stay in the Andrea Doria and the sea was covered for miles with the balls after the attempt.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## retclt (Nov 7, 2006)

Have you seen the price of ping pong balls?


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## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

retclt said:


> Have you seen the price of ping pong balls?


I bet you get a good discount if you buy 7,000,000,000 at a time. Actually, I don't think they used Ping-Pong balls but instead made hollow spheres on site to pump into the ships.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## Tartan34C (Nov 21, 2006)

Look at this site, www.iusmentis.com/patents/priorart/donaldduck/ it has some background on the Ping-Pong ball salvage method.
All the best,
Robert Gainer


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I'd go with floatation in the cabin, which should pull it up most of the way. Air mattresses, inner tubes, used polythene barrels (from a photo processor or bulk food importer--they both throw them away) would do. Remember that the air will expand in volume as the boat rises--so your "balloons" will burst unless they can also double in size or vent. If you use air mattresses or inner tubes, only inflate them half?way.

If you can get it off the bottom and rig a bridle around it, so you can put floats on either side and secure them low down, then you may be able to float it up the rest of the wayto the point where you can open the drains/seacocks and get it dewatered signficantly by itself.

Home Depot and tool rental stores all rent "trash pumps" that can get the rest out, once you beach the boat.

Just remember-things can and will shift unexpectedly, this can be dangerous. If you can find a local vendor who uses a small crane to move large moorings--they may be able to lift it all the way up and out, if your diver friends can rig the slings on it properly. Might be worth the expense to just get it done that way, without risking anyone while it is in motion.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

*there is a formula*

to figure out how much floatation (for example)a barrel would have.. is it something like the gallons it holds? The weight of a gal of water is about 9 lbs. so a 30 gal barrel would displace 30 gals of water X 9? = 270 lbs? I'm sure I'm wrong but it seems logical enough. How about kids beach balls? bigger then pingpong for sure. This time of the yr most beach stuff is on sale already. I'm guessing it won't take allot of floatation to get her off the bottom and towed into shore. Could it be considered lucky its only in 15ft or water?

Good luck!


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Internally lifting the boat is presuming upon a strong deck to hull joint on a boat already scheduled for refurbishment. It may be just the ticket for raising the deck alone.(g)


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

About 64.1# per cubic foot for seawater, and displacement is usually figured by volume, not gallons. About 8.5# per gallon.

Ping pong balls, like eggs, are fairly incompressible. Beach balls compress and expand and blow out, and have weak valves in them. Very different.

Blowing the deck off...I guess that depends on how lightly the boat is built and how much is rotted out. I'd expect typical bulkheads and deck joints to hold for the short time they'd need to.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Perhaps you could get a bunch of styrofoam from somewhere cheaply and spend an afternoon breaking it into pieces and stuffing it into the hull ????


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

sailaway21 said:


> It may be just the ticket for raising the deck alone.(g)


Which might actually be the best thing for all involved.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

Sailormann said:


> Perhaps you could get a bunch of styrofoam from somewhere cheaply and spend an afternoon breaking it into pieces and stuffing it into the hull ????


I suspect this method would have many drawbacks, the first being that a manageable chunk of styrofoam might have say, 5 pounds positive flotation. That means at least 750 trips to the bottom, placing the foam and then returning to the surface for more. Not to mention the time involved in cutting up the foam initially and then the inevitable escape of many bits of styrofoam and the neccessary recovery of that foam (everybody involved certainly wanting to be good stewards of the environment and all  )


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Given DistantStar's previous abandoned boat experiences, he might actually consider applying for federal funds now that he has created an artificial reef. This could turn out to be a money maker, although maybe not sufficiently profitable to restore the 15 homeless boats I believe he has acquired. (g)

Keep pluggin' Star, I've got a feelin' my life is dull compared to your's.


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## mawm (Jan 19, 2007)

An air-tight heavy-duty tarpaulin can be attached to the boat at many different points, creating a parachute. This is filled with air from a scuba tank. It will not get the boat to the surface, but she can then be towed and beached (at High tide). Wait for tide to recede and dry out.


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## KismetP362 (Nov 6, 2006)

My boat was under water the first time I saw it. 

I was a part of the salvage team and this is what we tried. (note I said "tried") 

Attempt #1: Cheap float bags (water beds)
stuff the bags in the cabin, fill. The result was the bags provide so much lift that they found their way to the companion way hatch and blew out the lip that holds the slide in place. 

Attempt #2: Tie plastic drums and fill (55 Gal)
The drums didn't want to stay down and there is no tie point on the round drum.

Attempt #3: leave lid off drum, poke hole in lip.
Worked much better, no lid means that swimming it down there was no issue, a bowline through the hole in the lip of the barrel to a strong point on the boat. Repeat for each stanchion, cleat and chainplate. Fill a little air from the scuba tank to keep it upright. Then someone passes down the compressor hose and you start filing. This still didn't break the suction.

Resolution: At low tide, Tie many lines from the docks around the boat down to the strongest points on the hull. (A sling under would be great but the whole keel was sunk in the muck). Let the tide come up. Here is the key point>>> at high tide, tie the boat to the pilings and let the tide drop. Now the barrels can help out and your good to go. Pump out the cabin really quick and up she floats. 

Now this is assuming that you are a: near docks. and b: in Maine where we have 12' tides.

See my site for some of the salvage pics if you want.


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## morganmike (Oct 31, 2006)

deniseO30 said:


> to figure out how much floatation (for example)a barrel would have.. is it something like the gallons it holds? The weight of a gal of water is about 9 lbs. so a 30 gal barrel would displace 30 gals of water X 9? = 270 lbs? I'm sure I'm wrong but it seems logical enough. ...


That's pretty much exactly it, you're not wrong at all. The bouyancy of a given volume is exactly equal to the volume of water it displaces. The volume measurement can be taken in any convenient unit of measure, be it gallons, liters, cubic feet, or steres (cubic meters). It all depends on what's convenient. If you had a 55 gallon drum, and assumed 8.5 pounds per gallon (actually it's closer to 8.3, but 8.5 makes the math easier) then you'd be pretty much right on the money at 467.5 pounds of displacement. That is, an empty 55 gallon drum will displace about 460 pounds less the weight of the drum itself and even the polyethylene drums weigh 10 pounds or so. It would be safe to assume you get approximately 450 pounds of displacement per drum. So, theoretically, to lift a 3500 pound boat you'd need 8 drums. Of course, as previous posters indicate, finding attachments and restraints for 3500 pounds of displacement isn't always easy.


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## retclt (Nov 7, 2006)

The van we moved was 21 feet deep on the sand putting the top at about 14 feet. We filled our inner tubes using 200 feet of hose run to a compressor on shore. Even though we floated the roof of the van to the surface none of the tubes popped, probably because the tubes themselves only rose about 14 feet and we hadn’t fill them completely to begin with. We had to use rope tying the tubes together so they didn't escape through the front window and back where the doors were no longer there. I would think a boat might be easier since you only have the companionway opening to deal with. I have 32 years of diving experience in all types of situations. Black water, caves, wrecks, etc. but even still, if it were me I’d hire it out. Even if the boat isn’t worth a large amount you’re stuck at this point. It is easy to get hurt or dead on something that appears to be so simple.

Our little prank took all day to pull off. It would have been much easier if the previous owner had left the keys in it.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The hull to deck joint was fibreglassed over by one of the boats last owners. The only opening in the boat is the companion way, so i was thinking put some of the tubes in the v-berth where they wouldnt fit through the door. 

As for my many boats, ive really only got this one and my Pearson. Ive given away and given up on the others that i had or was trying to get. The Kittiwake 23 got smashed to bits by a larger boat. 

I cant really leave the boat where it is since its right next to a mooring. I guess if it comes down to it, i can abandon it where it is and cut the rig down. I dont really have any money into it yet other than almost a year of keeping up with it. 

Oh yea, forgot about the O'Day 27 we just pulled out the marsh.


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## retclt (Nov 7, 2006)

Don’t cut! Have your diver buddies disassemble the rigging and any other parts and put them on the net for sale. Masts are hard to come by these days – at a reasonable price anyway. I could have used one that size for an old ocean racer I had awhile back.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"I cant really leave the boat where it is since its right next to a mooring."
Are there any ownership papers with your name on them? If so, and you abandon the boat, you could get a phone call one day, or a bill for the salvage and removal of it from navigable waters. An expensive surprise.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

As HS has pointed out, if the boat can be traced to you-even if they don't find actual ownership papers-since you've been paying for the slip or dock storage fees for the boat, the authorities might find that enough to hold you responsible for salvage fees.



SVDistantStar said:


> The hull to deck joint was fibreglassed over by one of the boats last owners. The only opening in the boat is the companion way, so i was thinking put some of the tubes in the v-berth where they wouldnt fit through the door.
> 
> As for my many boats, ive really only got this one and my Pearson. Ive given away and given up on the others that i had or was trying to get. The Kittiwake 23 got smashed to bits by a larger boat.
> 
> ...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Eh, i doubt ill ever hear about it. In the same area theres about 10-15 other boats that are sunk. I do have the title on the boat, but i havent transfered it to my name yet.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

When was it said it was at a dock? Its in the middle of an anchorage. Nothing but moorings and boats all around it.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Mooring fees or dock fees... same difference—legally either would be a connection to the boat.


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