# Important Notice regarding list.sailnet.net (the old SailNet List Server)



## FormerAdministrator (Jan 10, 2000)

The list.sailnet.net server has been taken off-line. This was done for a number of reasons, but primarily due to declining activity on the lists and the movement of many list members to the forums here on the SailNet.com website.

We understand the importance of the information on the lists to many of the list members and it's for this reason that we've saved and archived all of the content from all of the lists and transferred that data to a new and special section of the SailNet.com website.

You can access all of the old list server messages here: 
http://www.sailnet.com/list_server/index.php

We've have created a number of new forums here on the SailNet website to replace the lists on the old SailNet List server.

You will find these new sections in the 'Boat Builder Row' Section of the SailNet website for brand specific discussions :
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-builders-row/

and

'Special Interest Groups' on the SailNet website for lists such as "Atomic4', "Chesapeake Bay' etc:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/special-interest-groups/

It's important to understand that previous list members still have the ability to get immediate email notifications when someone replies to a topic of interest to you and in addition you can choose a 'Daily Digest' or 'Weekly Digest' of threads (discussions) you're interested in here in the forums.

In addition you can even subscribe to all activity in a forum if you wish and receive immediate email notifications, daily or weekly digests too!

The SailNet forums offer many distinct advantages over the list server. Features include the ability to search, post photos, quote prior responses, and much more. The server that was being used to house the list server will be re-deployed very soon as the database server for the SailNet website giving us faster response times here on the SailNet website.

We are sure you'll be happy with the features you'll find on the SailNet website forums and our staff of moderators stand ready to assist you 
in any way possible.

To access the archive of all the old list server messages click here:
http://www.sailnet.com/list_server/index.php

Please remember that the SailNet website has many other forums besides the section created to replace the old list server. 
Just to mention a few, they are: Gear & Maintenance, Buying a Boat, General Discussion, Cruising, Chartering, Learning to Sail and many many more.

Please join us in welcoming many of the prior list members over here to the SailNet website and help make their transition as easy as possible with help where ever and whenever possible.

Regards,

SailNet Support
http://www.sailnet.com


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

Thanks for putting the archives back up. Could you send this e-mail out to the lists to let people know what to do and where to go to post/access questions?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Labatt...e-mails have been sent to ALL users of mail lists. Of course, some have not used the lists in a long while or changed their registration e-mail addresses, but SN has tried to contact everyone.


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## therapy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

administrator said:


> It's important to understand that previous list members still have the ability to get immediate email notifications when someone replies to a topic of interest
> 
> In addition you can even subscribe to all activity in a forum if you wish and receive immediate email notifications, daily or weekly digests too!
> 
> ...


Could you please get me the ability get email notifications.

It has been tried to no avail.

It has been suggested that I assume another name but then the "form" says the email address is already in use.......DUH!........but obviously NOT!

How about just wiping me off the face of Sailnet all together. Then I can start again.........or fix it..........


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> Labatt...e-mails have been sent to ALL users of mail lists. Of course, some have not used the lists in a long while or changed their registration e-mail addresses, but SN has tried to contact everyone.


Hmm... No email received on my e-mail which normally gets the Newport forum; nobody who has been sent the email has re-posted it to our known list of users.

Admin-

What we (the Newport group) would like is a short restoration of the service so we can get the word out and properly bring the group to a close. It seems to me that many, many people who lost the service are unaccounted for and we have no way to get in contact with them because the email distribution is not available anymore. There were regular posters and many more who only posted infrequently but followed the emails they were receiving.

While I understand Sailnet's decision to move everything over to the "forums"; nobody on our group is happy that the service abruptly stopped with no warning. Luckily we had formed a sidebar group/email list before the service stopped so many of our active members could remain in contact.

Please restore the e-mail service for a week so we can "find" our remaining list members who are now lost in cyberspace. 

Fair Winds,

Russ W


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> Labatt...e-mails have been sent to ALL users of mail lists. Of course, some have not used the lists in a long while or changed their registration e-mail addresses, but SN has tried to contact everyone.


Did not get an e-mail about this, I'm on the O'day list. And I'm still not getting e-mail notification on subscribed threads.


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

camaraderie said:


> Labatt...e-mails have been sent to ALL users of mail lists. Of course, some have not used the lists in a long while or changed their registration e-mail addresses, but SN has tried to contact everyone.


 Cam-- i never got such an email for the pearson list. You need to get it across to Sailnet that most people who used the pearson email lists refused to use the forums. people on the old Pearson email list are migrating rapidly to the Yahoo pearson group.

is Sailnet having financial difficulty if they have eliminated the email lists to free up a server? They can't afford to buy a new server?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Sorry guys...they may be going out tonight but the admin told us that thousands of names would be notified. I will double check on the "mailing date" but I know that all will be notified and I have no reason to distrust the sailnet management. Sometimes these things take a bit longer or a gltch occurs but I think you can all rest assured that everyone will be notified, that the archives will be preserved and that an alternative has been provided here. 

Mitch...I think we can assume that the cost of RUNNING the server, the bandwith and the admin support required was not justifiable given the very small numbers of people actually using ALL the lists in total ...with no business benefit to sailnet.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

denby said:


> Did not get an e-mail about this, I'm on the O'day list. And I'm still not getting e-mail notification on subscribed threads.


I think Sailnet is trying to tell me something..............Like TS, and I don't mean terrible situation.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I am on the Caliber list and I have received no email notification from Sailnet about the problem with email lists. I have been a faithful user of the email list for 10 years. This is not good for Sailnet business. If you upset tens of thousands of sailors around the world, then that doesn't make them want to buy things from the Sailnet store very much. This was indeed handled very poorly by Sailnet management. I think they may have underestimated the buying power of the list members. Rule #1 in business: Don't piss off your customers.


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## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

camaraderie said:


> Sorry guys...they may be going out tonight but the admin told us that thousands of names would be notified. I will double check on the "mailing date" but I know that all will be notified and I have no reason to distrust the sailnet management. Sometimes these things take a bit longer or a gltch occurs but I think you can all rest assured that everyone will be notified, that the archives will be preserved and that an alternative has been provided here.
> 
> Mitch...I think we can assume that the cost of RUNNING the server, the bandwith and the admin support required was not justifiable given the very small numbers of people actually using ALL the lists in total ...with no business benefit to sailnet.


 So cut out the inactive email lists and support the ones that were active. heck, put some ads in the emails-- that would piss some people off for sure, but now Sailnet has pissed off everybody who used those lists. Who's their economic advisor--Phil Gramm or Carly (she who ruined HP) flory-dory? OOPs, crossing threads here. Well, you can be sure the 300 or so Pearson owners who had the rug pulled out from under them won't be buying anything from Sailnet any time soon. How's that affect the business benefit equation? the price of a new server and associated costs is looking cheaper all the time.

Sorry CAM, i just hate to see such blatant stupidity.


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## FormerAdministrator (Jan 10, 2000)

Every one on every list was notified by email last night. if someone did not get an email it's because their email address on the list server was outdated and they were not receiving emails from the list server prior to it's demise.


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

administrator said:


> Every one on every list was notified by email last night. if someone did not get an email it's because their email address on the list server was outdated and they were not receiving emails from the list server prior to it's demise.


Nope... I did not get an email; been active on sailnet lists until about 1 month ago when I stopped receiving emails and tried multiple times to post messages to no avail. That included logging onto the website and trying to post directly via my login account which was still active. Something has been wrong with the email server for a long while I think; that might be why Sailnet has seen such a large drop off in people using the service. Many just gave up in frustration that their posts were not getting through or no emails were coming in.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

administrator said:


> Every one on every list was notified by email last night. ...


I wasn't. The only sailnet.net or sailnet.com entries in my mailserver's log since Aug. 3 are repeated attempts over the last two days to deliver what I find after-the-fact is undeliverable.

The only other things in there mentioning "sailnet" are several instances of this:


> ...reject: RCPT from unknown[65.36.168.104]: 450 4.7.1 Client host rejected: cannot find your reverse hostname, [65.36.168.104]; from=<[email protected]>...


I've no idea who "speedwake.com" is. Near as I can tell they must be spammers. Whomever is trying to send whatever from that address apparently doesn't know how to run a mailserver, that's clear.

I am not impressed by your handling of this. ISTM a more logical procedure would've been to, oh... I dunno, maybe tell your membership before you shut the lists down that you're going to do so?.

Jim

P.S.: I _am_ kind of wondering, in a vague kind of a way, why somebody that looks, from their domain name, like a power-boating operation is trying to email me with a "From" of "[email protected]"... Kind of curious.


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## FormerAdministrator (Jan 10, 2000)

bringing the list server again is not an option - we have all the lists and would be happy to send specific emails to certain lists on your behalf. - make your requests to [email protected] and we'll send the content you desire to certain lists identifying a rallying point to a certain forum here.

ps: the company that owns Sailnet also owns speedwake and uses their server for email bounce processing.


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## FormerAdministrator (Jan 10, 2000)

KeelHaulin said:


> Nope... I did not get an email; been active on sailnet lists until about 1 month ago when I stopped receiving emails and tried multiple times to post messages to no avail. .


ps: the email to your email address was definitely sent and did not bounce. You might want to check your spam settings/folders, etc....


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Guys...*approximately 1200 people actually made a post to ALL the lists combined in the last 4 months.* I started on the lists with the liveaboard and Irwin lists back in the old days before Sailnet so I know what they were and what most of them have become. There is NO business case left for continuing the lists. 
Everyone has a place they can still go and hang out together that even has some new features to make the discussions better.
If they don"t like the new sailnet place, they can agree on a google or a Yahoo place. Everyone possible has been sent an e-mail and additional support has been offered to help reach others. The new sailnet place contains all the archives so nothing is lost that is of value.

The complaints have been heard, the decision to close the lists is final and everyone can choose to either carry on their discussion here or not. 
Change is always hard. 
*I do not work for Sailnet or agree with everything they do*...but it is time to stop complaining, accept that the lists are gone and move on with whatever you want to do next. I hope that the current forum membership will enhance the new group discussions here and that the group members just joining from the lists will have much to add to the general discussions as well. 
Anyway...that is my hope and how I see things.


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

E-mail sent to [email protected]...

I agree Cam...

I guess Yahoo is pre-filtering my e-mail before it goes out to my mailbox; nothing in my spam folder from sailnet...

Thanks for keeping our old email archives and for the Sailnet e-mail service. I made lots of friends and met several owners via that service and while I hate to see it go I understand and accept the decision for Sailnet to do so.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

administrator said:


> ps: the company that owns Sailnet also owns speedwake and uses their server for email bounce processing.


Maybe they should reconsider that, because whomever used to (?) administer sailnet.com and sailnet.net did a heckuva a better job than whomever is responsible for speedwake.com. (Hate to sound like a typical sailor with an attitude about power-boaters, but, somehow, I cannot miss the irony.)

As somebody somewhat knowledgeable about mail server administration, mailing lists, bulk email, spam, network abuse, etc., I have a few suggestions: First: Try to avoid sending email from domain-B on behalf of domain-A whenever possible. There's no way the recipient can possibly know, for example, that email for a _sailing_ site would come from a domain with a name more reflective of a power-boaters site.

Btw: Even somebody who knows how these things work would never know, even if they chose to look into it. Sailnet.com and sailnet.net are registered to "Marine.com LLC" in Thornton, PA, while speedwake.com is registered to "Speedwake LLC" in North East, MD. None of the domain registration information is common between the two.

Secondly: Get your email server(s) proper reverse DNS (PTR) entries. That reject line I quoted is becoming an increasingly widely-used test, either for spam/abuse scoring or for outright rejection (as my servers, both at home and at work now do).

Third: Fix your mail server's config. During email exchanges it's telling the world its name is "linux2.70517.com," but that hostname is at a completely different IP address. (That address has no rDNS _either_.) That mis-config will cause another negative scoring hit (tho not many out-right rejections).

Fourth: There is hardly a domain name that looks more "spammy" than "some-random-number.tld." Plus _that_ domain's registration has nothing in common with those of Sailnet or Speedwake.

Lastly: If somebody registers at one of your sites with a certain email address, it's probably best to _use_ that address just as it was given to you. Email from even the unknown-to-me-domain speedwake.com, even with all the above, would not have been rejected by my server had it been sent to the email address I specifically provided to Sailnet when I signed up. And, I would note, the email address to which mailing list traffic _and_ PM notices used to be sent. Yes, it's a "tagged" address. I did that for a reason: To make certain _Sailnets_ email was not rejected by my mailserver.

Jim


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Well said Jim...


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## therapy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

KeelHaulin said:


> Nope... I did not get an email; been active on sailnet lists until about 1 month ago when I stopped receiving emails and tried multiple times to post messages to no avail. That included logging onto the website and trying to post directly via my login account which was still active. *Something has been wrong with the email server for a long while I think*; that might be why Sailnet has seen such a large drop off in people using the service. Many just gave up in frustration that their posts were not getting through or no emails were coming in.


DUUHHH!!!

See post #4


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## therapy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

SEMIJim said:


> had it been sent to the email address I specifically provided to Sailnet when I signed up.
> 
> Jim


I have never gotten a single email.

Why is that?


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

therapy23 said:


> I have never gotten a single email.
> 
> Why is that?


Therapy,

I'm still in the same boat as you. I was not able to meet up with my friend in high er um low places to discuss the problem. Hope to meet up with him in a few weeks.

I have e-mailed Cam and the administrators a couple of times but no answers. Maybe Sailnet is trying to tell us TS. And I don't mean terrible situation.


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## therapy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

denby said:


> Therapy,
> 
> I'm still in the same boat as you. I was not able to meet up with my friend in high er um low places to discuss the problem. Hope to meet up with him in a few weeks.
> 
> I have e-mailed Cam and the administrators a couple of times but no answers. Maybe Sailnet is trying to tell us TS. And I don't mean terrible situation.


Denby,

I'll be damned if i did not just get an email from Sailnet!!

*MY FIRST!!!*

*WOO HOOOO!!!!!!!!!*


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

What did it say? Did they band you from Sailnet?


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## therapy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

denby said:


> What did it say? Did they band you from Sailnet?


NO.

I had replied to a thread so my preferences say when a reply is made I get an email notification. This is how I have it set but it has never happened before, hence my multiple complaints.

It happened once. Maybe it will work again.

Off to reply to some threads and see if it works on others.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Hello Therapy, Did it work?


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## therapy23 (Jul 28, 2007)

denby said:


> Hello Therapy, Did it work?


2 so far.

Will see about other threads I have replied to.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

therapy23 said:


> 2 so far.
> 
> Will see about other threads I have replied to.


Well I guess they just don't like me then.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Understandably...    


denby said:


> Well I guess they just don't like me then.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Understandably...


Thanks a lot Dawg.


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## Coreyboy18 (Jun 2, 2008)

I get all the advertisement emails, and also the articles...and I have gotten email notifications. But I am new and maybe that has something to do with it...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

administrator said:


> Every one on every list was notified by email last night. if someone did not get an email it's because their email address on the list server was outdated and they were not receiving emails from the list server prior to it's demise.


Nope, I did not receive any email from Sailnet last night(Aug. 7th). I have checked several times, including my spam folder. I was an active member of the email lists up until this happened. I know my email address was active and was not outdated. This is an attempt by Sailnet to try and backpeddle and blame their mismanagement of this huge issue on the customer instead of admitting that they made a mistake. Good job guys. I'm not criticizing the closure of the mail lists, I am criticizing Sailnet's lack of communication and mismanagement of this event. Admit that you notified some members, but because of system problems, lost email lists, lack of foresight, etc., you could not notify all members. If you admit this you will not get so much animosity. If you keep telling me you sent me an email, when you actually didn't, then people will begrudge you. Be honest with people, and they will understand. Don't blow smoke and try to cover up, people are smart enought to see through that. Good luck in your future business endeavors.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

You know, I am actually amazed at a few of these responses.

I don't work for Sailnet, only moderate this site. And yes, I was on the 400 list. But you know what, it was a free ride and a free lunch. But now that it was taken away, some people are all upset that they do not get another freebee. Go somewhere else to get a free ride then. Go join the yahoo site, etc. But let me prepare you: I have been told that once you give them your info, you will get SPAM GALORE!! Hope you got a big email box and fast connection.

Contrary to opinions, there were many reasons that they could not communicate as well as many of you might have liked. We as mods were priviledged to some of that information and were amazed at the complexity of it. I guess the perception is that you just take 5 seconds and type a message and it suddenly goes out to everyone and BAM! Everyone is happy and informed. Unfortunately, it did not and could not work that way due to some technical difficulties.

Get over it. I am tired of the gripeing and tired of reading it. If you want it that bad, go order a very large server and everything that goes along with it and put it in your bedroom or office. Give it a shot yourself and see how many tens of thousands you need to drop before you realize it ain't worth it. I personally think the lists should have always been located on this site and special interst groups only available here because it would be better for the sailing community as a whole. All of the information would be public and always viewable - even by groups that are not on the lists and might have similar problems or issues. 90% of a sailboat is third party products anyways.

What I don't get is the unending ridicule and whinning when you could just come here (which is also a free site), make it work and have fun at it too. 

Maybe what we should be saying is, "Thank you Sailnet for keeping it up as long as you did and giving us a free ride as long as you did." That is my attitude. Shame it is not others. 

- CD


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## psnider (Mar 13, 2001)

Cruisingdad said:


> Go join the yahoo site, etc. But let me prepare you: I have been told that once you give them your info, you will get SPAM GALORE!! Hope you got a big email box and fast connection.
> 
> - CD


Not true! I've been a member of the Yahoo Tartan list since the last time Sailnet had issues-I'm sure you all remember that. Anyway, I get very little spam and I don't know that any of it can be attributed to joining the yahoo group. Your mileage may vary....

MT


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

psnider said:


> Not true! I've been a member of the Yahoo Tartan list since the last time Sailnet had issues-I'm sure you all remember that. Anyway, I get very little spam and I don't know that any of it can be attributed to joining the yahoo group. Your mileage may vary....
> 
> MT


I did not know that for certain which is why I said, "I have been told...". But I have heard contrary opinions to yours. Regardless, I will not join it. I do not see the point. THis place can provide everything a list can provide and much more.

At any rate, lets just move on. It is closed, permanently. I certainly hope that those who enjoyed talking shop on their boats will find a lot of camaraderie here and value in this site as it will span many more sailors and opinions.

- CD


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

They'll definitely find a lot of Camaraderie here...and even more of SailingDog!


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> THis place can provide everything a list can provide and much more.


It depends on your perspective. Certainly more advertisements, more bandwidth, more time ...

I cruise through Sailnet when I happen to have a good signal, but generally I use e-mail (and am working on stripping HTML on my e-mail server) over low-speed connections. E-mail lists make it to the boat; web-sites, well, not so much.

sail fast, dave
S/V Auspicious


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Cruisingdad said:


> I don't work for Sailnet, only moderate this site. And yes, I was on the 400 list. But you know what, it was a free ride and a free lunch. But now that it was taken away, some people are all upset that they do not get another freebee. Go somewhere else to get a free ride then. Go join the yahoo site, etc. But let me prepare you: I have been told that once you give them your info, you will get SPAM GALORE!! Hope you got a big email box and fast connection.
> 
> - CD


I disagree. Some of these lists formed over a 12 year period and have hundreds of members around the world. Now that the lists have been terminated without advanced notice, there is no way to email everyone on the list about where the new list will be forming, i.e., Yahoo, Google, etc.

Sailnet could have easily done a better job. For starters, they could just post a notice on the Sailnet homepage with an explanation about the termination of the email lists. This would be a very easy thing to do and would not be "technically difficult."


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

MidnightPass said:


> ...For starters, they could just post a notice on the Sailnet homepage with an explanation about the termination of the email lists. This would be a very easy thing to do and would not be "technically difficult."


Isn't that what is at the beginning of this thread? Or do you mean that they should have given a long explanation detailing their reasoning? Why do they owe you reasoning? And if they are going to come to the sailnet homepage, why not participate in the special interest forums here? It is also moderated, which is a plus. It is also viewable by MANY more sailors, and very likely those that may own your particular boat and not be a member of the list.

Certainly those on the list have the ability to type www.sailnet.com, or put it in their favorites, as easily as they can click on their inbox?

Hey, it's gone. It's over. What is the point about criticizing the leadership here when it is done? What do you hope to achieve? Better to stand back and take a deep breath and be glad you still have a free place to talk sailing - which is moderated and very active. Better to say you are glad you had it as long as you did.

Put it behind you and become an active member here. There are a lot of good people and sailors with a LOT of experience. There are a few clowns too, but the humor makes it all the more fun.

- CD


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## engele (Nov 26, 2006)

This is crazy. You killed the lists without allowing people to gracefully get in touch and settle, as a group how they wanted to continue to communicate. 

You killed of a valuable resource and are basically saying "we killed off something you liked without any notice, but we are offering you a crappy add filled experience, that you have to log into, and remember another set of passwords and such, to make up for it. Be happy."

um no. I have seen the forums and my experience is that the lists had more mature and knowledgeable users. Not to mention they were not moderated in the same way. Oh well. If a single simple mail server is too hard for you to manage, I wont expect much more here.


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## engele (Nov 26, 2006)

*Oh really?*



Cruisingdad said:


> I did not know that for certain which is why I said, "I have been told...". But I have heard contrary opinions to yours. Regardless, I will not join it. I do not see the point. THis place can provide everything a list can provide and much more.
> 
> At any rate, lets just move on. It is closed, permanently. I certainly hope that those who enjoyed talking shop on their boats will find a lot of camaraderie here and value in this site as it will span many more sailors and opinions.
> 
> - CD


Really? Much more? What about:

Sailmail users?
Blackberry users?
Those with too many online logins and passwords to remember?
Those who can't stand the flashing adds?

What about all of them? I am/was subscribed to both Sailnet and Yahoo groups and I haven't had a problem with the Yahoo group at all. I liked sailnet's simplicity and plain text messages.

Don't you realize that especially in the small groups, sailnet has cut the only tie between a lot of people? A tie that many found useful?

I tend to disagree that the forums are going to fill the void. I always read the lists as they hit my inbox, but I rarely check the forums, and it's been that way for years with all of the lists I subscribe to.


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## engele (Nov 26, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> You know, I am actually amazed at a few of these responses.
> 
> Contrary to opinions, there were many reasons that they could not communicate as well as many of you might have liked. We as mods were priviledged to some of that information and were amazed at the complexity of it.
> 
> - CD


Really? As a mail server admin, I'd have to say you are wrong. Worst case scenario they could cut and paste a message into a message for each group.

You really don't get it. *Many people will not use the forums.* those of us that will now lack their insight.

It is a loss to all of us.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

engele said:


> Really? As a mail server admin, I'd have to say you are wrong. Worst case scenario they could cut and paste a message into a message for each group.
> 
> You really don't get it. *Many people will not use the forums.* those of us that will now lack their insight.
> 
> It is a loss to all of us.


Well, as a server admin, why don't you start up your own server and take over where Sailnet left off? Then you can have it your own way, not have to deal with moderating or advertising (that actually make free sites free) and run it as you see fit. Given your post, you obviously are an expert at the matter and doing so would be a snap of your fingers. You guys crack me up.

And sorry, all you have to do is type sailnet.com or put it in your favorites and it pops up and can remember you. It isn't hard, really. I promise. I am not an admin server guru expert and do it every day.

We moderate the spam out of here. We keep the porn out. We try to maintain civility. And since I have been coming to this site I have never once been bothered by ads and do not mind them. They are either in the top or sides and not in the middle of the forum where the information is.

It is down. It is over. The lists are closed. You have about three options at this point:

1) Participate here and roll with the changes. We welcome you,

2) Forget this site and others and make your own course,

3) Start up your OWN list server and take over where Sailnet left off.

Complaining about it here is not an options anymore. This has been beaten to death. It is over. THis thread is closed.

- CD

PS I get on sailnet on my blackberry and have done so countless times.


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