# Thinking of buying a 1979 J/24



## farscape (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm thinking of buying a 1979 J/24. Knowing that such older boats have lots of issues, I need some help to determine if it's woth my dime and time to buy it.

To my untrained eye, the boot looks used but not abused and in better shape than other boats I've seen. The deck layout is modified to comply with 1998 regulations and the mast is anodised Alu. I walked all over the decks and couldn'y detect any soft spots. I also tried to wiggle the pulpits and stanchions and they were firmly attached to the dack with no visible signs of leakage through the deck (underside). There were a few hairline cracks around the fore hatch but the deck was solid in that area, same around the mast partners.

Let me know what you think. Thanks,

(Since I can't post pics, maybe some of you would be willing to check the pics out on Flicker)

First the vermiculite: I think it has been replaced but I'm not sure: see the images below for the bilge.

flic.kr/p/dbJ4Kv

Mast support beam in the v-berth:

flic.kr/p/dbJ5fH

What's the uggly yellowish sealant? The beam looks like two pices: the one painted in white and the anodised Alu one...

flic.kr/p/dbJ74S

The boat has been out of water the whole summer and is very dry (uncovered) but here - port side coat storage - I've found some water

flic.kr/p/dbJ6So

The ceiling in the cabin - this side of the partition wall has some gaps where it meets the ceiling:

flic.kr/p/dbJ6Gm


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Water found is probably rainwater, any through bolts could leak/drip (could also be the aforementioned hatch)...

Lots of surface/mildew, so it's obviously be shut up for a while

Keel bolts look OK.

Pintals look Ok... Gudgeons, maybe OK (not familiar with the J/24, is it supposed to be double stacked on the lower like that?).

Looks like you have your work cut out for you for fairing of the rudder/bottom. It's called roll and tip for a reason, looks like someone used a 3/4" nap roller, and forgot the tip. for the topside paint.

Can't comment on the other parts, not familiar enough with the J/24s. There definitely looks like there was work done on that mast support/step though.

How do the standing rigging and the sails look?
How about is it on a cradle or a trailer?

Good versions of these older J/24s CAN be found for low dollar amounts. The price should be under $5k with a trailer, in the condition I'd say more like $4k, and all sails working (no tears), but old (10+).

Example, here's a local boat, that I've seen up close, that looks as good as it does in these pictures, and they want $5500 for it.
1979 Champion Johnston J-24 for sale | Lake Wallenpaupack, PA


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## farscape (Sep 18, 2012)

Thanks, SHNOOL. The boat comes on a single axle trailer, with two complete sets of sails (no rips/tears from what I've seen - I checked them in the cabin) and the price is in the ballpark you mentioned.

The vermiculite replacement and the mast beam/step are my main concerns. The vermiculite looks like it has been replaced based on the new type bilge sole and the look of the stuff in the bilge.

Thanks,


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## farscape (Sep 18, 2012)

Any other opinions?


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Eh it's not enough money really to worry... if you are 100% paid for to do it go for it, you only live once... if it explodes after a year, well, you had fun right? 

Sorry you are in my ballpark of boat prices it sounds, and my take is, my boat could sink today, and I'd be out nothing. Sure I'd miss her, but I've sailed her bottom off too and have gotten my monies worth out of her. I plan to push her for every second of fun I can going forward for sure, and I'll make her as safe as I can, and sail as good as I can (money will continue to be sunk in my 30+ year old boat regardless), but hey it's PAID FOR, and properly insured, and registered! 

Sounds like your thinking is very much like mine, going for the most "smiles per gallon."
Buy it, sail it, fix it up, but realize it's 30+ and living on borrowed time. Sure it's a tough boat, and might need work to keep her sailing, but that's gravy.

PS: still sounds like a bargain


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## farscape (Sep 18, 2012)

Great piece of advice, thank you! I'm sitting on the fence but you might have just given me the push 

Best,


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

I haven't seen a price mentioned, but I just sold our J24 this past summer (~$4500) and the main issues with these boats are about the kinds of things you are looking at. It seems that most of the big things are solid, but the deck areas around the winches and shrouds/chainplates and stanchions are the most likely for water intrusion. These boats will last as long as there are people willing to continue to fix them up (which will probably be forever), and they are very easy to work on. The quickest easiest method to tell if you have vermiculite in the sump is to push an awl or small screwdriver down into it and see if it goes in easily. Vermiculite is the mushy stuff that helps potting soil retain water- you'll know right away if it's not. If it's as hard as a rock, then it's not vermiculite. Be sure you're not testing very tough paint, though. Replacing rigging, toggles, forestays and worn out hardware is common. Just be sure you go through everything and know what you're getting into. A single axle trailer isn't necessarily a bad thing, but a double is much easier to tow- all depends on your vehicle. If you have choices of other boats in your area, I'd definitely take the time to look at them all.


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## Yankee (May 11, 2012)

I remember that leakage around the chainplates and core rot in the area were problems for the J-24 owners that I knew. You might give that a close look. It's fixable, but something to be aware of before a final price is negoiated.
Nice sailing boats but the one design racing is too intense for some folks.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

on a J24 or any boat in that price range, Do not buy one that needs any major work. there are many J 24 for sale and paying a few thousand more for one that needs no repair work is money in the bank. there are no boats that have sat for a while that only need sweat to clean them up. if they need any parts or materials to repair then you will be spending way more time and money then the boat is worth. this type of boat is on a trailer so you can get one from anywhere and just tow it to your home port.
Remember even a brand new boat will require more time to maintain properly then most people are willing to spend. thats why there are fixer uppers all over the place


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

farscape said:


> Thanks, SHNOOL. The boat comes on a single axle trailer, with two complete sets of sails (no rips/tears from what I've seen - I checked them in the cabin) and the price is in the ballpark you mentioned.
> 
> The vermiculite replacement and the mast beam/step are my main concerns. The vermiculite looks like it has been replaced based on the new type bilge sole and the look of the stuff in the bilge.
> 
> Thanks,


That's a lot of weight for a single axle trailer. Probably O/K for launching and retrieving at a club or something but I wouldn't take it on the highway or any other distance.

I'd also sound the deck with a plastic hammer, not just walk on it. Wet core can still be stiff enough to pass the walk test (don't ask how I know).


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

If you do get a J24 just make sure you close up the companionway and latch the cockpit lockers closed in any rough conditions: The Sinking of 12


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Maybe five years before the sinking of MYC-12, a J/24 went down in Raritan Bay for the same reasons. Crew ignored squal warnings, broached, filled, sank. And that was very well known in the NYC J/24 community, because prior to the Raritan Bay sinking, everyone had that "oh, you can't" response to the issue.

Although some of us just quietly got out the duct tape at times. 

They're fine boats, but the J brothers would be the first ones to remind folks, they were intentionally built LIGHT for RACING, and forty years of "rode hard and put away wet" can take their toll on any boat. Even the gooseneck fitting to the boom can be worn out on a J/24 with that many years on it. And the original halyards, with no chafe plates, can chew long slots in the last. 

Of course lightening the boat that way doesn't violate any class racing rules, and it does make the boat lighter and faster...


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Since we are throwing gasoline on the fire, they sank another J24 last July near Ellis Island: Scuttlebutt News: Capsize on the Hudson River
Granted, it was a rough squall that came through but ...
close those companionway and cockpit hatches.


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## farscape (Sep 18, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your input - it's a big help to get somebody elses perspective.

J/24's propensity for capsizing when broached (with the hatches and lazarretes open) still gives me pause. I'm wondering though if these incidents appear to be more frequent given the (higher) number of J/24 being raced (and therefore scrutinised) compared to other boats.

In any case, if I get the boat, I'll seal the lazarretes and keep sime duct tape handy for the companionway hatch 


Later,


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

farscape?

"J/24's propensity for capsizing when broached "

HTF do you get to that assumption? Given the numbers of hours on those boats, and the gung-ho nature of their usual skippers, and often an inexperience level with anything besides flat water and good wx, how do you blame the boat?

A J/24 is a very nicely made very well behaved boat. It is relatively stable (I don't know the numbers, only the feel of the boat) and has no propensity to capsize.

Any idiot can capsize any keelboat, if they do something careless like keep up too much sail or broach it with a companionway open. If the J/24 has any extra vulnerability, it would only be due to the lazerettes draining into the bilge rather than being sealed off--but that's pretty common and easily remedied.

Squalls don't come out of thin air. Or, well, maybe they sorta do, but you can ALWAYS see if a squall is coming, and folks who decide to ignore that, for a race or whatever, won't be saved by a "better" boat. Folks who haven't learned to respect Aeolus or Thor or you pick your own favorite, as much as they respect the sea, can sink any boat.

I've had a J out, shorthanded, in deteriorating wx (as per forecast, no surprise) that got so bad a chase boat came out to find us. I chewed out the driver for not bringing hot cocoa because we were soaked to the bone, but had no complaints or problems aside from the cocoa shortage.

OTOH I think every J/24 sailor will tell you, there's no such thing as a flat place to lie or sit on the boat. There's something tripping you, bumping you, or crowding you, or finding ways to stub your toes, everywhere. Except down below, where of course you can't stand up and the portapottie goes under the minimal nav shelf. Which is really just a portapottie cover.

Horses for courses, and all that fine stuff.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

Now that we've dumped plenty of fuel on the fire I'll break out the extinguisher as well.

I have limited experience sailing on a J24 but I can say that it is a fine pedigree racing boat. You will not find much else in that size that offers the speed and responsiveness a J24 offers. It does not take much wind to make that sucker go.

J24's are a one design (OD) fleet and as such are almost exclusively raced which means that the crews tend to push them to the max. I'd bet that many J24's do not even carry a reefing point in their main sails, as reefing while racing just seems wrong to the racing mindset. 

If you look carefully at the pictures in the link I posted of the J24 sinking in NY Harbor last July, 2011 you will see that there were several other J24's out there and they did not capsize or sink. They got their sails down or mostly down. There were gusts to 45 knots or so that day and the crew that sank were either foolish or unlucky or both. There was also ample warning that a squall was coming, however fast it approached. 

Something else to keep in mind is that all (3 or 4) of these NY Harbor sinkings were boats owned by a club that teaches sailing/racing so it is logical to assume that there were some sailors with not much experience involved. 

If you own your own J24 you would take efforts to make sure that your hatches can be closed and be relatively water tight. I'm not convinced that a sailing club would be quite as vigilant - although you might think they ought to.

I wasn't really trying to scare you out of getting a J24. Having duct tape aboard is always a good idea though.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

For the record my Capri 22, and Capri 25 have the exact same hatch problem. It's easy to note, because the lazarette lockers open to the entire below, and only a bulkhead (unsealed) to the cabin. Just put a lock on it, or zip tie, problem solved.

If you are on the edge of a blow, and pushing it close the sliding hatch, with hatchboards in.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

Don't forget to sound the bottom, the entire hull is balsa cored and there are quite a few around with rotten core in the bottom.


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Keel is worth about $1 a pound at the scrap yard.


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## farscape (Sep 18, 2012)

Obviously I never sailed a J/24 yet so I read as much as I could from the net and inevitably I came across the capsizing incidents - there are some technical details which I won't get into (93 deg, etc.) and the technical note from J/boats on how to prepare the boat to avoid such problems (including plugging the sink's drain), but in the end, I didn't give up on the boat because, I think most of the hype around them is brought on by folks who are not fans of the boat.

Nevermind, I still appreciate the input and I think I'll get the boat 

Where can I find rigging instructions/manual for the J/24?

Thanks much,


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Here is Jack Hornor's review of the J/24: BoatUS.com: Boat Reviews by Jack Hornor, N.A. - J/24

It is a great sailing boat, but be careful about what you are buying. You may be taking on some serious repair work if the balsa core in the hull or transom is wet.


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

There are lots of places to get rigging information, mostly from the various sailmaker's web-sites in the form of a tuning guide. Harken used to produce a great diagram to help you figure out how to buy more boat stuff, but I think the best place now is aps- APS - J/24 Boat Photos for Reference
This has a collection of photos from two different boats showing examples of ways to do different things, anything from motor mounts to the genoa shackle. You'll want to go through the tuning guides (my favorite is the one from Quantum, here- Class Details - Quantum Sail Design Group :: Premier Sail Design and Development) and watch the various online videos taken over the years by Harken and a few others (all on youtube). I'm sure you may have stumbled on the class website- http://www.j24class.org/ , there is a great first-time buyers page there with bunches of hints of what to look at. I'm pretty sure core rot down into the hull, while possible, is pretty rare- definitely worth taking a look at, though. By far the most likely scenario for core rot there would be if a boat got holed, and a repair didn't adequately seal off the area and water got in. Core rot is very common in most decks, but depending on where it is (and what other boats you have in a similar price range) may not be a deal breaker. I know the j24 class web site says sails don't matter, but sails aren't cheap. Obviously, the boat is a lot harder to fix, but if you are looking to race, a newer set of sails can really sweaten the deal, especially a new genoa. Capsizing and turning turtle is really tough in a J24. I've never done it, but we've broached quite a bit- always with spinnaker up (my own boat and crewing on several others). The one thing to be sure of that everybody will tell you, is never go out (in any wind) without securing the cockpit lockers with a clip that cannot accidentally open. No big deal, but you could lose your boat. It's always a good idea to keep duct tape on the boat for a few other reasons (mast boot, for example), but sealing up the hatches means that you are probably done sailing, right? How often is that going to happen??


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## farscape (Sep 18, 2012)

@Irunbird: Adding all your input to my list. The APS pictures are great and the Harken diagrams are now a lot more useful to put things in context.

@All: thanks much for your comments, they were well received. Even if some info I had already it's good to see how other people think. 

"She" needs a name, I have to come with something up until next w/e when "she" will be handed over to me. I'm thinking of starting with a thorough inspection and not to launch her this year; I'd like to see her with the mast up though...

I found this link useful for rigging info: j24sailinghooray.com/harken.html

I'll have an update once I get to spend some time with her... 

Later,


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