# Main Halyard Tension



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Being the old duffer cruiser that I is I tend not to play around a hell of a lot with halyard tension. I will adjust the main outhaul for heavy/light conditions, ease off a tad on the headsail halyard in light airs, move sheet blocks around but don't play with the main halyard too much. 

What do you racing types do ? Loosen off in light airs ? Tighten up in heavy ? Or is the outhaul adjustment all that is required.


(Damn I wish Alex was here.)


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## max-on (Mar 30, 2004)

I would set the halyard and use a cunningham for adjustment.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

max-on said:


> I would set the halyard and use a cunningham for adjustment.


That's something I've never fully understood. What is the difference between hauling the main up to tighten the halyard and hauling it down by using the cunningham ? The only thing I can think of is that using the Cunningham is less stressful is some way as in stress on the halyard or the sail slugs or chord.

Have to work this out I guess.

Current Womboat does not have a cunningham though I guess I could rig one using reefing point.

New Womboat is inmast furled and while that may not last its obviously not a system suitable for a cunningham.

cheers


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## NOLAsailing (Sep 10, 2006)

Halyard on: upwind, breeze

Halyard eased: downwind, light air


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

TD,

You in last post said magic word(s).....in mast furling.

This of course is from a person that knows NOTHING about furling systems, but as I have heard, you want the halyard to be tight, and play with an outhaul to vary the shape etc. IF you had non in mast furling, then yes as NOLAsailing said. 

Otherwise, yes you can tighten to a degree with the halyard, tighten more with a cunningham, which can change the CoE easier and better than tightening the halyard. I put a cunningham recently on my boat, a bit easier to work with than the main sail halyard to tighten up the luff if crinkling! or appearing to be loose.

marty


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

NOLAsailing said:


> Halyard on: upwind, breeze
> 
> Halyard eased: downwind, light air


So irrespective of wind strength , keep it tensioned upwind ?

I'm guessing here but is this to maximise aerodynamic shape ? Then easing or tightening outhaul is your tuning tool.

Downwind use both outhaul and halyard or cunningham because aerodynamic shape is not so important.

I've tended to be hard on in heavier breeze and ease off in light. Looks like this is not quite right going uphill.

One of problems with not ever racing. You keep on perpetuating errors year after year after year.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Good grief. I believe we have SailNets equivalent of the Phantom of the Opera. 

A certain little ghost in the machine just whispered in my ear.


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## max-on (Mar 30, 2004)

Does that mean you are all set?


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## Idiens (Jan 9, 2007)

Alex has a video of this topic - see sticky.


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## NOLAsailing (Sep 10, 2006)

The strength of the breeze of course plays a role. Tensioning halyard or cunningham will flatten the sail and, in light air, will be slow. Your halyard tension will vary by a couple inches on your halyard. Put the halyard on the winch, ease slightly, and check shape/boatspeed.

The cunnigham is less of a fine touch - in really light air or downwind, you can ease it all of the way (or nearly so, depending on your boat). 

Be careful not to overtension the halyard. If you do, you'll notice a vertical shelf form along the luff. Ease until this disappears. If it's light, or you're heading downwind, ease some more and the sail will become a little more full.

Also, you'll adjust the outhaul for the same conditions. Upwind, breeze, outhaul one. Downwind and/or light air, outhaul eased.

Experiment to see what works on your boat in what conditions and, when you figure it out, marks your lines, so you can make fast and easy adjustments.

Just because you're not racing doesn't mean you shouldn't try to sail your boat as well (and as fast) as you can.


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## NOLAsailing (Sep 10, 2006)

> I've tended to be hard on in heavier breeze and ease off in light. Looks like this is not quite right going uphill.
> 
> One of problems with not ever racing. You keep on perpetuating errors year after year after year.


Actually, this not necessarily wrong, Mr. Wombat. If it's light, you don't want the sail to be flat. Ease off a bit and check boatspeed. Also, foot off a little as you'll kill your speed pointing too high in light breeze. The sail may look a little funny with a few wrinkles, but boat speed rules - keep an eye on the knotmeter.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Just remember that as the wind strength increases, you'll generally want a flatter sail shape, and if you have dacron, rather than high-tech or wire halyards and outhauls, they will stretch more in higher winds, requiring them to be tightened a bit more than in lower winds.


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## max-on (Mar 30, 2004)

TDW, did you use the cunningham on Giulietta, or did Alex outright refuse to depower the boat at anything less than a full knockroach.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Shields Racing*

When setting the halyard tension in a Shields we look for the position of the maximum draft about 2/3 up the mainsail in combination with the windspeed. The tighter the halyard the more the maximum draft moves forward. We try to keep the maximum draft about at 50%. The stronger the breeze the more halyard tension is needed. It gets complicated since the shape of the sail is also strongly effected by the backstay tension and also the forestay length. For less breeze we look for a deeper sail. The Cunningham tends to get used in a strong breeze to effect the lower portion of the sail and move the draft forward. Other boats would be trimmed differently but the universal point is the desired shape of the sail is the goal for the particular windspeed and heading.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Backstay tension is something that only really affects fractional rig boats. However, it does help flatten the mainsail and headsail considerably.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

sailingdog said:


> Backstay tension is something that only really affects fractional rig boats. However, it does help flatten the mainsail and headsail considerably.


I found a backstay adjuster helpful on my former masthead rigged boat. The rig was adjusted so that, when I applied backstay tension, it exerted force downward on the top of the mast, and so that the only way the midsection of the mast could bend was to bow forward, pulling the midsection of the mainsail with it.

You can see how it works by putting one end of a slender dowel on a table, and pushing down on the other end with your hand. The dowel will bow in the middle, out of column. It bends more easily if you start it off with a little pre-bend. I adjusted the mast's rigging so that it could only bend one way, and so that it could only bend so far, and no farther.


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

One other thing to keep in mind, along with wind speed, is sea conditions.

In general, you want sails fuller in light air and flatter in heavy.

But also, if you're trying to punch through a sloppy sea, you need the sails a little fuller than in a calm sea, think of it as a lower gear on a car or bike, to give you more power when the seas make your trip a little more "uphill". 

Windspeed is the primary factor, but sea condition, though secondary, is still important.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

max-on said:


> TDW, did you use the cunningham on Giulietta, or did Alex outright refuse to depower the boat at anything less than a full knockroach.


Played around with outhaul mainly. Alex set the halyard relatively hard which was apt for the conditions. I don't recall him pulling on more cunningham . He did drop in a reef when it really piped up.

In general people, don't misunderstand me, I do like to sail as efficiently as possible. Lets face it , its probably more important to get a slow boat moving as well as possible than it is a fast one. Of course its also often the case that a fast boat is more temperamental than the slow.

What I didn't fully understand was the halyard v outhaul adjustment. Couldn't quite see how the halyard was effecting the draft of the sail. Outhaul yes, halyard no but since reviewing Alex's vid and following up on advice received here I think I get it now.

Hey, you never know, might make a sailor of me yet instead of a lazy old fart , half asleep , steering with his foot and just letting the world go on about it's business.

I do have to say that sailing G was something of an eye opener. I'd never sailed so consistently fast for such a relatively long period of time. Don't think I'd ever get obsessed with it, but it was fun even though everything happens just a bit too quickly for my liking.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Backstay tension is something that only really affects fractional rig boats.


Not strictly true. As it applies to the main: Yes. But backstay tension affects the forestay tension on a masthead-rigged boat, allowing you to adjust the headsail's depth. (We have a backstay tensioner on our masthead-rigged boat.)



sailingdog said:


> However, it does help flatten the mainsail and headsail considerably.


It's my understanding backstay tension has little-to-no effect on the main on a masthead rig.

Jim


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

SEMIJim said:


> Not strictly true. As it applies to the main: Yes. But backstay tension affects the forestay tension on a masthead-rigged boat, allowing you to adjust the headsail's depth. (We have a backstay tensioner on our masthead-rigged boat.)
> 
> It's my understanding backstay tension has little-to-no effect on the main on a masthead rig.
> 
> Jim


If so equipped<<
I always understood the Baby stay did two things, allow the mast to bend (in the right direction) with backstay tension and strengthening the mast while running a spinnaker. Surely there is more to it than that but without this stay you're not in control of the mast column with backstay tension. All the resulting advantages to backstay adjustments are not controllable unless stays (and spreaders) are swept back, without a baby stay.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

albrazzi said:


> If so equipped<<
> I always understood the Baby stay did two things, allow the mast to bend (in the right direction) with backstay tension and strengthening the mast while running a spinnaker. Surely there is more to it than that but without this stay you're not in control of the mast column with backstay tension. All the resulting advantages to backstay adjustments are not controllable unless stays (and spreaders) are swept back, without a baby stay.


Babystays have somewhat dis-appeared - I don't think I've seen a babystay in use going back some 25 years, during which I've sailed/raced/instructed some some 40-50 different keelboat cruisers. Back in the 70-80's some masthead boats with slim mast sections and inline shrouds would have those installed to limit pumping going to windward in rough water. Otherwise its just slows the tacking.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

In sailing as a cruiser I would think that main halyard tension is the absolute last think to worry about. I keep the vertical wrinkles out of it - showing its too tight, and the spiders web Showing its too slack... And thats all.

Also, cruising, if halyard tension needs altering you probably need to tuck in a reef or shake one out, so that will be done as u reef.

A cunningham eye, line and winch for a cruising boat is a WOFTAM. waster of time and money.

As for in mast furling... I dunno.


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

sailingfool said:


> Babystays have somewhat dis-appeared - I don't think I've seen a babystay in use going back some 25 years, during which I've sailed/raced/instructed some some 40-50 different keelboat cruisers. Back in the 70-80's some masthead boats with slim mast sections and inline shrouds would have those installed to limit pumping going to windward in rough water. Otherwise its just slows the tacking.


Didn't know they were that rare, I currently race a CS30 with a BS and a few years back a C&C 33 with one (maybe its a Canadian thing) which is why I pretend to know what its there for. I can't see dependable mast bend on a masthead rig without one but I would admit to moderate knowledge of any of this.


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

I'm curious, I have a flattening reef do you use it as a mini reef by shortening sail or is the forward one a Cunningham hole and the leach end pulled back separately for two different adjustments.
No hijack intended but it definitely plays into the theory of halyard tension.


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## Markwesti (Jan 1, 2013)

MarkSeaofLife says a cunningham eye, line and winch for a cruising boat is a WOFTAM. waster of time and money. I do not disagree , but.

We have a cunningham cringel , we don't use it anymore but now you have me thinking , I just might start using it again I mean just to see if I have been missing anything . We also have a shelf in our main , possibly the cunningham cringle is there so you can do the tighten up on the shelf when not needed ?


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Wow .... Lazarus lives. 

Since the OP (in 2008) we fitted our old boat with a cunningham and it was actually worthwhile. Now we have moved on to the new girl with in mast furler we don't have the option though sometimes I confess I wish we did. 

The inmast furler is something of a Curate's Egg.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Where is SD with the ol, don't you know this is a 7/XX yr old thread, poster probably does not post any more!

Oh man oh man oh man! some peoples,,,, sheesh......

Opps, Op is posting still is he not?!?!?

better put phoot in mouth before chewing eh!

marty


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