# German main sheet question



## NewportNewbie (Jul 30, 2011)

Thinking of converting my main sheet to the German system. I mostly singlehanded and the boat is a 30 ft boat. Most info I have found on this system is its great for big boats and big wind where lots of pressure is put on the main sheet. So is usually routed to winches on both sides of the cockpit so trimming can be done from either side. I have a 6:1 system on my main sheet currently and it works great. Can I keep that same 6:1 ratio and use the German system without the winches? I've got the winches there but on a smaller boat and lighter winds I think having to winch the sheet would slow it down a lot. My main purpose for doing this is to remove the main sheet from over the companionway. This would allow me to have it on both sides of the cockpit for easy sheeting whichever side I was on. Thx.


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## Stumble (Feb 2, 2012)

You certainly can run a German system back to either side of the cabin top, but unless you are racing I wouldn't worry about it. A Santana 30 isn't so large a boat that moving to one side of the cabin top is really a big deal. Plus it allows you to buy less hardware to use elsewhere.

Take a look at Harken Mainsheet Systems the 5:1 with cabin top winch system. Unless you really need to be able to double end the line, in which case the German system is better. Though I happen to think you either need purchase or a winch never both.

On the J-130 where we have dedicated winches for the main sheet, we run the 2:1 with dedicated system. If I was going to bring the sheet to a winch anyway I would rerun the German system with just this, since less purchase in the blocks means 1) shorter line, 2) fewer blocks, 3) less expensive, 4) less extra line in the cockpit, 5) no loss of power since it is on a winch anyway.


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

German main sheet has only interest in boats bigger than 36ft. If you have a direct system stay with it. German sheet is used on bigger boats because the relation needed for bigger sails makes a direct system slow to operate.

Regards

Paulo


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

on a 30' boat that you single hand you do not want a mainsheet with a winch. even with self tailing you will still have to use both hands on the winch handle at times. the traveler you have is not in the best spot for sailing, but still easier to handle then a winch while you are trying to steer and handle the main.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

mount a flip flop with a cleat on the bottom of the boom near the tiller and run the main sheet from the existing blocks up to the boom and back to the flip flop


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## knuterikt (Aug 7, 2006)

NewportNewbie:

There is a lot of people on this forum that will offer you good advice, You are making it harder to help you by starting several threads on nearly the same topic..

If you post some more pictures of your current setup and what you are after it would help us help you.

One useful resource is Harken Mainsheet Systems
You could also download the catalog from Lewmar Welcome to Lewmar leading sailboat and powerboat hardware Equipment supplier
There are some stuff to look at there.

I have newer used the flipflop system that overbored wrote about, it's one solution to consider.

Another option is this 4:1 Swivel Base at Harken Mainsheet Systems








Can of course be 6:1 also

For a double ended system (German variation) it will be difficult to get more than 4:1 (that's what I have on mine - it's 40 footer with winches)


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Our son adapted the 'german' setup on his Catalina 36 to get the mainsheet to the cockpit since he often handles the boat on his own. The original setup is the typical 4:1 on the cabintop, run forward, down, and aft to a cabin top winch. Now he's 'double ended' with the sheet ends running down either side of the cabin to a stopper/clutches and then to a winches in the cockpit.

The speed issue was not addressed, other than quick access, as he was going to a winch in any event. The combination of clutches and winches allows him to adjust the main from either side, at the wheel, and also frees at least one of the winches for other duties in between mainsheet adjustments. The clutches are mounted outside the coamings on deck so as not to interfere with sitting outboard.

I have the flip/flop on our boom on the mainsheet fine tune.. it's great if the boom is actually 'in' the cockpit and OK for the fine tune as that would be typically the case while beating. As the sole mainsheet cleat, I'd be concerned that if the sheet ever got away on you, or the tail went over the side on a run you'd have some fun getting it all back with the cleat 6 feet to leeward of the gunwale....


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

The schock 30 -30 I use to sail on had a traveler track just ahead of the tiller that was fastened to the seats. it does require that you step over the track to move froward in the cockpit. not sure if you have room for ths setup. it will require a longer sheet and the attachment near the end of the boom. the second pic is my old Soverel 33 setup. it is now a 5/ 20 to one set up


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

overbored said:


> The schock 30 -30 I use to sail on had a traveler track just ahead of the tiller that was fastened to the seats. it does require that you step over the track to move froward in the cockpit. not sure if you have room for ths setup. it will require a longer sheet and the attachment near the end of the boom. the second pic is my old Soverel 33 setup. it is now a 5/ 20 to one set up


From a sailing perspective that's a much better setup, but many don't like the shin-banging aspect.. But on a tiller steered boat, with such a traveler forward in the cockpit it's ideal.. which ever tack you're one, one hand on the tiller and the sheet is immediately to hand on the other..


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

It sounds like a whole lot of trouble just to mount an instrument pod above the companionway. Sure some old boats have that arrangement, but they probably have the traveler in the cockpit. What instruments are you planning on getting? Why not just mount your display on the bulkhead and be done with it?


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

overbored said:


> The schock 30 -30 I use to sail on had a traveler track just ahead of the tiller that was fastened to the seats. it does require that you step over the track to move froward in the cockpit. not sure if you have room for ths setup. it will require a longer sheet and the attachment near the end of the boom. the second pic is my old Soverel 33 setup. it is now a 5/ 20 to one set up


NPN, you're boat is too small for a german system. Go with these examples above. It's fast, works well, and just as importantly, the traveller is right there too. With a nice cascading backstay adjuster, you'll be all set!


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## sigmasailor (Jun 18, 2009)

On my Sigma 33OOD I used to have a simple barber hauler like device with clamps attached to the block at the bottom of the boat (traveller). The other bloch attached to the boom. The line was endless. You could use two lines giving 4 fold purchase or 1 line giving double purchase. Worked perfectly ans simple, like on a dinghy.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

Changing your sheeting system as you describe would make it very difficult to singlehand, as mentioned above. The double-winch mainsheet setup is designed for fully crewed racing boats with enough hands to assign two people to them and permit faster tacks by being able to power up the main as the boat swings through wind. Singlehanding, it would be very easy to tangle yourself in the sheet on every tack. If you are heeled over so much that you have trouble controlling the main the way it currently is, it might be better to put in a reef before spending hundreds - if not a thousand or two - changing the sheeting. The existing setup seems to have worked for more than 30 years. Sigma offers a good suggestion: an endless sheet that can be worked to provide more mechanical advantage than you currently have. Our J/36 - which has a mainsail significantly bigger than yours - has this, which provides 4:1 if you pull both lines together, or 8:1 if only one is pulled. It's worked well for us up to more than 40 knots of wind. (Though we do reef when it blows that hard.)


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