# After Action Reports



## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Alaska fishing vessel.

I wish more reports or even info were made available for our use. A recent example: 41’ sloop abandoned 200 miles E of Cape Canaveral, crew lifted off by USCG helo. 

Why?









Captain's Fatigue Led to Sinking of Fishing Vessel in Alaska


A captain’s decision to get under way while fatigued led to the grounding and sinking of a fishing vessel near Whittier, Alaska, the National Transportation Safety Board said in Marine Investigation...




gcaptain.com


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

So much can be learned from these reports... or reinforced. Sleeping captain puts 4 others lives in peril. Hmmm. But all the alarms turned off. Why? So they could sleep better?


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

If the link provided is any example, we will find out about the 41' sloop sometime in August. 2023.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Unlikely to find out about the sloop. No loss of life and not commercial. National Fisherman had a sunker review every issue. IIRC the most common cause was downflooding precipitated by a leak in the lazzarette, which I take to mean the stuffing box or exhaust tubes. She would start settling and by the time it was noticed she was about done for. Too much water, inaddquate pumps, heavy, high load, wallowing and unresponsive added to the situation. 

It seems different with our recreational sailboats. However I do believe there are threat trends that remain to be uncovered. One would think the insurance industry would have some stats on this but I have never heard of any.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

A series of cascading events leading up to that sinking; all easily resolved. But who am I to talk, I fell asleep on my motorcycle once.


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

hpeer said:


> I wish more reports or even info were made available for our use. A recent example: 41’ sloop abandoned 200 miles E of Cape Canaveral, crew lifted off by USCG helo.


Newer Bennie. Ripped genoa but otherwise looks ok. Conditions don’t seem that bad. Inexperience??? ….. but I wasn’t there so who knows.










From Florida Today

A U.S. Coast Guard helicopter crew rescued two people from a disabled sailboat in wind-blasted, 12-foot seas about 200 miles off of Cape Canaveral over the weekend.

The pair, flown to Melbourne, was not injured. The crew was credited using a flare as rescuers circled in the sky above to alert crews to their location on the high seas.

"The operator used the vessel's registered (emergency radio beacon) and conserved the flares until help was near," said Chief Petty Officer John Andzelik, operations unit watchstander, District Seven, in a statement issued Sunday. "This due diligence allowed Coast Guard crews to rescue them as fast as possible."

Rescuers spotted the battered boat — with its ripped and tattered sail — and retrieved the unidentified crew from the sailboat Critical Window about 2:30 p.m. as weather conditions continued to deteriorate. The crew, whose boat was rocked by 10-to-12 foot waves and 40 mph winds, had radioed the Coast Guard for help.

The Coast Guard dispatched an HC-144 Ocean Sentry aircrew to search the area. The sailboat's crew fired a flare, signaling the circling aircrew to its location. The boat's unnamed operator told rescuers that the boat was disabled due to the weather. High winds were forecast for the Atlantic as a cold front approached. It was not immediately known why the boaters were out on the water or where the crew was from.

The Coast Guard used a MH-60 Jayhawk helicopter to hoist the pair from the vessel. Both were then flown to the Melbourne-Orlando International Airport where a medical crew evaluated them. The crew was then released.


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## Geoff54 (Oct 30, 2011)

2015 Oceanis 41. Looks like it is (or was) in BVI bareboat charter. I wonder what it was doing off Florida. Owner using it, maybe.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

A couple of days after the event Boatwatch published a request by the Owner to try and ping the vessel on AIS. 
It is possible the Owner was not on board during the event.
Who knows?
Thats why I want to see after actions on these events. So we can learn from others.


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

"10-to-12 foot waves and 40 mph winds " Sporty, but manageable. Guessing they got surprised and waaay out of their comfort zone. Failure to appreciate the weather forecast. I've done that.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

40 knots 14 ft seas... And deteriorating weather with a cold front arriving.

Yes, get less experienced people off a charter boat.
Experienced people are different.

The photo, I can't see clearly, but look at the dodger... It looks blown out. That's a bit odd?

With a ripped Genoa thrashing in 40 knots the sound is hell.
The flogging sheets and clew are death if they hit you. They were unable to get the Genoa down.
The main might not have much drive except down wind (taking them North East away from land, towards the Azores).

If it's not their boat, a charter boat so not equipped for storms, they're inexperienced, and you are at the limit of Helicopter range - 200nms.... I'd be looking at the radio too.
Even advising the non-critical situation to USCG their advice would be to abandon. Their advice is always "get off".


Mark


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I would be interested in the details and thinking from the crew. Unlikely to happen as readers would proceed to rip them to shears from the comfort of their computer.

I had a head problem during a gale once while I was at anchor. That was pretty terrifying to me as was worried the rigging was going to come down. I can see how the crew were are the "its now or never" for calling for help.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

I know there ade occasional after action investigations and reports. The one that comes to mind was an experienced crew, in a West coast race, ran into an island. I believe all 4 or 5 aboard died. Evans Starzinger was involved in the investigation and discussed it a bit in another forum. Not an official briefing but his recollection. IIRC the investigation was conducted because of the race organization. Perhaps their due diligence or liability, I don’t recall. The bottom line was, again as I recall, they don’t really know why they made this tragic mistake, but it seems they were simply over whelmed and did not take all necessary navigational precautions. 

It is possible that there is a similarity in this case, necessary precautions were omitted, but in the transit planning. But it is impossible to say.

Who were the crew?
Was it a charter or a delivery? 
Professional or volunteer crew?
Was a weather router involved? Did they even look at the weather?
Had they had some previous issue or malfunction that delayed the transit or that out them out of position?
Were they reaching helo recoverable range? Can’t helos refuel in the Abacos? Or is this a USCG driven decision?

Far too many decades and Heinekens ago to recall details but I worked a rescue where we had a helo pick a stricken sailor off a commercial ship. Time was of the essence, he hospital needed care ASAP. We were on a C-130 cargo flight and were rerouted to assist. He was deposited on one Bahamian island (San Salvador) where we were waiting. He was immediately taken aboard the C-130 and flown to Grand Turk where he was transferred to second helo and flown to a PR west coast Naval hospital. No clue if he survived. It was an interesting and complicated operation and was possible only because we were in the air in position to make the transfer. But still, it demonstrates what some thought can accomplish.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Yes, a lot of people think forum users rip apart statements after the fact. However the benifit we get from discussing it far outweighs some BS posts we have to wade through. 

It gets back to What Would I Do in that situation. 

Maybe the flogging of the Genoa in 40 knots was waggling the forestay so much they thought the mast was about to come down. That's a reasonable fear if you know you're about to be hit by an even stronger cold front. 

Mark


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

The Genoa looks like they've got the lower portion sheeted off to keep sheets from flogging. But, the 1st tear is pretty high up for someone to try to reach anything to get a purchase to haul it down in 12 foot seas, a risky maneuver. If it got wrapped around the foil it's certainly not coming down. I can't see a bow pulpit, though the photo is kind of grainy. )

If the luff tape is not completely severed in the track it may have been possible to pull it down, from the deck, but that would be no small feat. Only 2 persons onboard, of unknown age. More bad weather coming, they probably made the only call they could. At least they can hug their wives and kids, if applicable.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

I have opted for a Reefrite furler to replace my Profurl with some issues. 

ONE benefit if the Reefrite is the sail attaches with slides much like a main. So you can get something into the space berween the sail and the foil to pull down. The sail slides then store on the lower portion of the foil.

On our trip up from Dominica we had to change headsails. This looks to be a far easier exercise. 

We had made that decision before this event, but this sort of reinforces our decision.


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## LawyerFrank (11 mo ago)

Isn't it still possible to roller-furl a torn Jenny? If it's wrapped around the foil, so much the better...or am I off on this? It's not a situation I have ever faced (nor do I hope to, EVER) but as a teachable moment I'd like to know the answer to my question. Not bashing anyone at all...just curious. If it's a hank-on (doubtful) that's a whole 'nuther ball o' wax.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

wait till you try it

I had to do in 30-40 knot when while at anchor and pretty low fetch at 3am. Was just able to be it reduced till morning when I could see. In between 3am and dawn I was worried the rig was going to shake apart. The idea of trying to do underway in ****ty conditions makes me almost crap my pants.

Here in the mooring field a 2 weeks ago it happened to someone during upper 30 knot winds. It took 3 people to get the spinnaker halyard wrapped around the forestay/headsail to stop it.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

LawyerFrank said:


> Isn't it still possible to roller-furl a torn Jenny? If it's wrapped around the foil, so much the better...or am I off on this? It's not a situation I have ever faced (nor do I hope to, EVER) but as a teachable moment I'd like to know the answer to my question. Not bashing anyone at all...just curious. If it's a hank-on (doubtful) that's a whole 'nuther ball o' wax.


I suppose you could attempt to roll it in, but if the sail is torn as in the photo, there's nothing to prevent it from unwrapping itself eventually, unless you can restrain it somehow with wraps from a spare spinnaker halyard or a spare genoa halyard. That's a lot of time on the bow in those conditions. In fairer weather it would be another story.

Looking at the photo again, it's possible that that small bit of the genoa that they had tied off, was giving them some stability from rolling and maybe some headway. No idea if they had a working engine or not.


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## Overdue (Jun 14, 2021)

hpeer said:


> Alaska fishing vessel.
> 
> I wish more reports or even info were made available for our use. A recent example: 41’ sloop abandoned 200 miles E of Cape Canaveral, crew lifted off by USCG helo.
> 
> ...


 www.ntsbreporter.us/index.htm


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Each situation is different. So it's an _excellent_ teachable moment! 😊😁😊

When these things happen the first thing I do is STOP! 

I stop 🛑 and try to figure out what to do. Many people just think you immediately need to do some drilled response: drop the sail or furl the sail. But as we can see here it's not that easy. 
But STOP 🛑 and take some time to consider. There very few problems you must have instant reaction. 

In this situation unfurl the sail, drop it, bring below and glue it together with scrap sail, wait 12 hours, put it back up and sail on. 

But if that won't work you might have to try furling, but extend the sheets to make a wrap. Maybe if the weather moderates you can be run up forestay with a knife and cut the excess free - can be dangerous. 

Maybe you... And I mean _you_ will figure out a better way for your unique situation. 

My advice is to stop. Be calm. If you're not going to die then go below and relax and let your mind slowly and gently work it out. 

Have confidence in yourself that you will work it out. You don't need to be perfect, just be able to get to a next port without killing anyone you really care about. Crew are expendable  



Mark 😊


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Boat next door, 29’ Bayfield, had the furled genoa develope a loose wrap in 40 knots, gusting 60 on the dock. Took 5 folks s long time to tame it.

I have changed headsails at sea a few times. Never fun. Am now purchasing a “reefrite” furler which uses msinssil type slugs instead of a luff tape. The sail can be pulled down and controlled while still attached, sort of like hanks.

I think it will be a safer, more versatile solution to furling. My Profurl had some issues but still serviceable. This is a saftey/convience upgrade.

And I have multiple headsails. Including a small jib with hanks and a wire luff. It could or hanked on as a stay sail or flown on a spare halyard on it luff wire. Not my idea, came with the boat. Kinda cool.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Overdue said:


> www.ntsbreporter.us/index.htm


Yeah, thats what I would like. For us pleasure SAIL boaters.

The motor guys should have their own.


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## LawyerFrank (11 mo ago)

Tempest said: "I suppose you could attempt to roll it in, but if the sail is torn as in the photo, there's nothing to prevent it from unwrapping itself eventually, unless you can restrain it somehow with wraps from a spare spinnaker halyard or a spare genoa halyard."

Ouch. Good point.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Here is an informative report. Missing something in detailed explanation but surely in the right direction. I would like to know how the gear was rigged to accept an emergency tiller.









Google News


Comprehensive up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News.




news.google.com


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

And another, very different report.





https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...vers-1.6352644


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

hpeer said:


> And another, very different report.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's interesting that his "ditch bag" had only nacho chips and crackers for food! I'm thinking a box of PowerBars might have been a better choice! 

Sent from my SM-G981W using Tapatalk


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

SchockT said:


> It's interesting that his "ditch bag" had only nacho chips and crackers for food! I'm thinking a box of PowerBars might have been a better choice!



Have you tried the food in the life rafts?

When I got rid of my last one I thought Id have a taste. Bad! So Bad. I was in the Army part time at university and the army ration packs were a kings treat... but liferaft food is really inedible.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Have you tried the food in the life rafts?
> 
> When I got rid of my last one I thought Id have a taste. Bad! So Bad. I was in the Army part time at university and the army ration packs were a kings treat... but liferaft food is really inedible.


Fortunately I have never had the need to use a life raft, although I have tasted American MREs and Canadian IMPs and they weren't all that bad!

The article doesn't mention raft rations at all. I just thought it was odd that he grabbed his bag of emergency supplies which included nacho chips and crackers. While I do have "emergency chips" on board they are more appropriate for a cocktail hour emergency rather than a survival emergency!

If I was putting together a ditch bag I would be looking for something more energy-dense than chips!

Being coastal cruisers we don't even carry a liferaft, let alone having a ditch bag packed so what do I know!

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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

The article didn't say anything about water. Have to assume he brought some, since he made it 6 days. 

Protein bars would certainly have been better than Chips. 
Beef jerky holds up 
Not everyone likes them, but I always have Sardines around. 
Smoked whiting or Cod.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

tempest said:


> The article didn't say anything about water. Have to assume he brought some, since he made it 6 days.
> 
> Protein bars would certainly have been better than Chips.
> Beef jerky holds up
> ...


The article says he grabbed a 20L jug of water.

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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

SchockT said:


> The article says he grabbed a 20L jug of water.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G981W using Tapatalk


ahh..must have missed that on the 1st read through.


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