# Hobie wave vs 16 in the ocean?



## domromer (Apr 8, 2013)

Hey all, another question for you. I'm getting closer to getting my own cat and I've been sailing waves and 16s at my local sailing club. I like the wave because it's roomy, comfortable, and easy to rig. I like the speed of the 16. Much faster than the wave in light wind which is nice. The real decision maker is going to be how the boats ride in the ocean. I plan on doing a lot of ocean sailing and unfortunately I can't take the boats from the sailing club out of the bay. Will there big a big difference in how these two boats handle waves and chop? Is there a strong reason to get one over another based on ocean performance. Right now I'm leaning towards the wave as I value simplicity and comfort over speed. Your thoughts?


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

big waves you want length. the shorter the boat the easier it is to pitch pole. for the ocean the Prindle 16 is a better boat, Hobie 16 next and the wave is not even a good idea. The Wave is a toy boat and designed to be bay sailed. better yet get an 18' Hobie or Prindle or Nacra. the 2' extra makes a very big difference in the waves.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Get the Nacra 18 or 20 if you can afford it. You want big and strong - and fast is nice as well. Old boats are old. New boats are fast.


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

When I was a kid Prindle 16 was what I started with, later went to work for Sol Cat to support my surfing habit and started sailing the SC18, prindle was a great cat but the SC18 was killer with the Nacra being a wee bit better


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## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

domromer said:


> Hey all, another question for you. I'm getting closer to getting my own cat and I've been sailing waves and 16s at my local sailing club. I like the wave because it's roomy, comfortable, and easy to rig. I like the speed of the 16. Much faster than the wave in light wind which is nice. The real decision maker is going to be how the boats ride in the ocean. I plan on doing a lot of ocean sailing and unfortunately I can't take the boats from the sailing club out of the bay. Will there big a big difference in how these two boats handle waves and chop? Is there a strong reason to get one over another based on ocean performance. Right now I'm leaning towards the wave as I value simplicity and comfort over speed. Your thoughts?


Huge difference between the boats. The Wave is a toy - the 16 is a serious boat (with flaws). The 16 isn't "much faster in light wind" -- it is much faster period. The difference in set-up times is negligible (less than 5 mins diff once you're experienced). It is also much more capable. Waves and chop on the "wave", forget it. Others have suggested Prindles or a NACRA and that is fine but the H-16 is a good entry level beachcat that is plenty capable of handling ocean conditions. The Wave however is a toy that is made for resort rentals and benign conditions. With an H-16 you'll be sailing with a large class of established sailors who can teach you a lot . . . there is no similar group of wave sailors. This is a no-brainer --- buy an H-16.

Have fun! (I miss mine)

Check out thebeachcats.com


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## abrahamx (Apr 3, 2006)

Personally I would go with whatever aint a hobie.


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## Lucky dog 2 (Apr 28, 2012)

I have been sailing a H16 and dry bags fr camping gear on Lake Superior for years. We get winds over 35k on a regular bases. Using quick release pins for the shrouds I can pull up to a ramps and be sailing in less then 15 minutes. Once the stink pots have figures out how to back up a trail or and have gotten out of the way. The is a video from the 80's about 3 H18 sailing the Alaskan coast, that very cool. The only real issue I have every had was taking the jib down will bouncing around inthe chop. I have switched to the 17 sport, it has a roll furling jib and wings for more room and a back rest.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

It's funny, I don't recalled the OP saying anything about Pridels or any other boats. I'll bet he has done the research and has narrowed down to these two. 

I lived on the beach in Ocean City , NJ for 18 years and we had a Hobie 16 parked in front of it. We did nothing but Ocean sail it. They are robust great boats and no maintainence easy to set up and sail. 

I would not by any of the other " knock offs" for a couple reasons. First is availability of parts. Many more Hobies than the others so more dealers. And second , they are a one design racing boat with a following world wide or even US wide and should you e re decide you'd like to enter some of the competitions you could. ( my daughter and I were rank high in the 90s in NJ and raced in the Nationals.

The Wave is a nice boat, but I think the 16 is a better setup for the ocean with the added weight and length.

The 16 is a great boat. I even towed my 99 lb daughter behind it water skiing when we sailed after a hurricane had passed in 25 knot winds.


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## TJC45 (Jul 10, 2013)

I've never sailed a Wave, but the boat has a solid following. Consummate Catamaran Guru Rick White sponsors a Wave regatta every year in the Florida Keys. The boats seem to hold up to ocean sailing conditions just fine. Hobie, brought the Wave to market to appeal to a different type of user. One who wanted simplicity and was willing to give up some performance. To the best of my knowledge, the Wave has no nasty habits.

All of that said, I've got to back up what Chef said about the H16. I too have extensive Hobie16 experience. Much of that time playing in the ocean. The boat rides great in the ocean. It punches through surf to get off the beach, accelerating quickly. Coming back to the beach just as easy. The Hobie 16's overblown reputation for pitch poling is even less likely in the ocean where the wind blown chop is more likely to be wind blown swells. 

The H16 is plenty strong. AS posted elsewhere i survived getting tubed in Barnegat Inlet by two 12 foot breakers. My crew and I were barely hanging on to the lacing when the boat popped back to the surface and kept on sailing!!! Once through the break zone we were flying off the tops of steep mountainous swells of 6 to 8 feet. As it did this the boat would drop from under us with us pounding down onto the tramp. We were on the edge of control as we sailed the boat to tamer conditions a couple miles offshore. No damage to the boat, just two battered sailors! Point being the boat is really strong!!!! That same boat sails today at age 25. High quality and well built are two terms I always use to describe Hobie products.


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## TJC45 (Jul 10, 2013)

On the subject of Hobie 18s and Nacras. Both are faster than an H16. IMO, neither is as comfortable. With the tramp at hull level the ride is somewhat wetter on these boats. Both are more complicated, more so the Nacras. And the Nacras have what i would call sharp edges. Just not as user friendly as the H16. 


The newer class of Nacras, the current F series boat as well as the 10 year old Inters are not a robust as the H16s,18s, or old Nacras. Saving weight has a cost. But can those boats fly!!!!!

If the primary objective is the need for speed, go Nacra. If user friendliness is the number one objective I would go Wave. If you want user friendly, A good turn of speed, huge class, and lots of support, H16


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## randomforumname (Mar 2, 2012)

I've done both boats in open waters in the Gulf of Mexico between Gulfport, MS and the barrier islands ~12 miles offshore. 

Lets start with the 16: its faster, will cut through the waves better and be more comfortable in large seas, requires some level of fitness to sail well, requires a crew, WILL pitchpole and is kind of hard to right, can become a handfull in big breeze.

Wave: slower, will not cut through waves very well and sort of "bobbers" - it will toss you around in big seas thoroughly, but comfortable in calm waters, requires little experience or fitness, no crew required, handles a LOT of wind very well (due to a small sail and only one sail), easy to right if you do capsize and wont turn turtle if you do capsize, cheaper (new Wave versus new 16).


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## TJC45 (Jul 10, 2013)

Regarding the pitch pole issue on the H16. I just don't see it. I sailed my H16 for 5 seasons before experiencing a pitch pole. I've tripped over the front maybe a half dozen times in the 20 year since. I've sailed hard. raced hard, bow down in all sorts of chop, thru breakers etc, and no pitch pole issue. IMO, if sailed properly this isn't an issue. 

OTOH, there was a three year stretch where the boat not only didn't pitch pole, it didn't capsize either. This is when I was introducing sailing to my young children. I tell you this to let you know that the boat can be sailed conservatively. And even doing that, it's still the fastest sail boat on the bay. 

Hobie makes bow planes which solve the pitch pole "problem." These are installed under the bow lip. Interestingly, sailing over the years with hundreds of H16s, not only have I not put these on my own boat, i have yet to see a 16 with them installed. I'm sure somebody has them, just haven't seen them. You would think with this fearsome rep for pitch poling every boat would have them. Once you learn the boat pitch poling? A non issue!


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## randomforumname (Mar 2, 2012)

Who says pitch poling is always bad? It can be fun done on purpose sometimes. Righting the boat isn't fun - especially if you don't catch her and she immediately capsizes to the other side and you have redo the whole process.


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## TJC45 (Jul 10, 2013)

Our Hobie Fleet made a joke of pitchpoling, awarding the yearly UBoat Commander award. I never won!

My post speaks to the reputation for the H16 for pitchpoling being greatly exaggerated here on SN. Can the boat pitchpole? Yup! Is it a deal killing enjoyment robbing gotta sell the boat experience? Nope! In fact it's a non event. So much so when recommending the boat to friends i don't mention the word pitchpole. All boats can pitchpole. 

With regard to righting, I've never had an issue with it. Our fleet held several picnic get togethers every season. One of the fun events at these gatherings were hull flying contests. To see who could fly a hull the longest and also the highest without flipping!!! WE flipped quite often! Maybe that's why i view it as another non issue. it was fun!! Flipping can happen, even in light air, when the crew either moves to the lee side and begins hanging off the shroud or moves to the middle of the boat and leans against the mast. There is more than one way to get a hull to fly!! Sometimes balance is maintained, other times were going for a swim. 

That said, having the boat go 180 and back off its feet, frustrating!!! But, as we found from being over so much, that's mostly technique.

My advice to anyone who buys an H16, find a calm safe place, flip it often in the beginning so you don't fear it. Also get it nose down and intentionally pitchpole it. Doing this, your fear not only goes away, valuable lessons on boat handling are learned. At that point you know how to flip and trip the boat. You then know what not to do!!!


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## blowinstink (Sep 3, 2007)

Oh, I think the H-16 is a fantastic boat and I would love to have another one some day. But the lack of buoyancy in the bows is a design flaw and while slow pitchpoling (when on the rail) can be fun -- a high speed pitchpole when you are on the wire is no fun at all and can be pretty damn dangerous. That said, there is no reason to be sailing at high speed super deep and on the wire unless you are racing. Plenty of people own these boats for years and years and they never pitchpole. Hell, I bought mine from a guy who never capsized!


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## randomforumname (Mar 2, 2012)

Love this video! The Pitchpole is pretty much like this every time - super surprising and then laughs/high-5's after the fact.


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## TJC45 (Jul 10, 2013)

Characterizing it as a design flaw is where we disagree. More like nature of the beast. if the boat is sailed correctly, a pitchpole is highly unlikely. The boat, as mentioned, can be sailed conservatively enough as to never flip. ( of course that's no fun!!!)

Watch You Tube vids of the current crop of F18s and you'll see plenty of pitchpoling. None share the H16's hull design. And, the truth is just about any boat can be made to trip if sailed incorrectly. Sail a Flying Scot downwind with the board down in anything but light wind and you're going swimming with the first gybe. Every Scot sailor knows you don't sail downwind board down. No undeserved negative rep! Yet, an H16 trips and it's the boat's fault!


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

domromer said:


> Right now I'm leaning towards the wave as I value simplicity and comfort over speed. Your thoughts?


Trust your instincts - general rule. Previous posters brought up a lot of good points. I think that H16 would be a better choice for ocean sailing because it is a stronger - and thus potentially safer - boat for open water sailing. And it can be quite comfortable out there when properly sailed and adequately equipped.
Bigger cats are very hard to right if you capsize when sailing solo - you can get water bags and other gear to help in that but it is just not at all easy.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

the nature of the beast is a polite way of saying the design is not quite what it could be if designed differently. the H-16 is an early design. many improvements have been made in Cats since it was designed. most of the newer designs have more buoyancy in the bows to prevent the bows from digging in as the H-16 does. the H-16 gets a bad rape because it is mostly sailed by average sailors that do not understand how to keep it from pitch poling. They go out and push the boat because it is fun and all it takes is one little thing wrong and it is over. the H-16 is one of the easiest of the 16' cats to pitch pole because it has a lot of sail area for the buoyancy of the bows. put any small cat in big waves and big wind, pushing the boat hard and even the best sailor will pitch pole. You can sail an h 16 and not pitch pole but you will not be doing the same performance that many of the newer designs will do. the newer f18 will pitch pole easier if you are pushing the boat to hard but you are also traveling twice the speed and have twice the sail area with the same boat weight and crew weight.


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## TJC45 (Jul 10, 2013)

overbored said:


> the nature of the beast is a polite way of saying the design is not quite what it could be if designed differently. the H-16 is an early design. many improvements have been made in Cats since it was designed. most of the newer designs have more buoyancy in the bows to prevent the bows from digging in as the H-16 does. the H-16 gets a bad rape because it is mostly sailed by average sailors that do not understand how to keep it from pitch poling. They go out and push the boat because it is fun and all it takes is one little thing wrong and it is over. the H-16 is one of the easiest of the 16' cats to pitch pole because it has a lot of sail area for the buoyancy of the bows. put any small cat in big waves and big wind, pushing the boat hard and even the best sailor will pitch pole. You can sail an h 16 and not pitch pole but you will not be doing the same performance that many of the newer designs will do. the newer f18 will pitch pole easier if you are pushing the boat to hard but you are also traveling twice the speed and have twice the sail area with the same boat weight and crew weight.


We definately disagree.

What trips the H16 is the deck lip, not the hull. Bow planes can be purchased that all but completely eliminate the possibility of a pitchpole. Though most experienced Hobie 16 sailors shun them as they look at them as training wheels, the planes make the H16 the cat least likely to pitchpole. If anything, the H16's asymmetric hulls are a brilliant design.

Once the boat is learned, it can be driven to maximum performance without pitchpoling. Boat setup for conditions can also reduce the probability of going for a swim. Mast rake is one item that can have a meaningful effect.

My saying it is the nature of the beast refers to the nature of all cats to pitchpole. These boats are all driven hard, which drives the bow down. That's just asking for it!

Lastly, about an F18 being twice as fast as an H16? No argument that an F18 is faster, much faster, than the H16, but twice as fast? H16s have been clocked in the mid twenty mph range and maybe a little higher. The AC72s are doing 50 to 55 mph all out. F18s doing 50mph plus? Show me.

BTW, I'm a fan of all cats, right up to the AC72s. And. i'm first in line to tell anyone who is interested the cons of these boats. But i get tired of folks who have little or no experience on these boats throwing stones at them ( not referring to you overbored).


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## tdsurf (Oct 25, 2013)

No one happened to ask how he plans on using his cat with or without crew and conditions. In my years sailing now im now 42 I've owned a 14, (3)16's, and now have my second wave. I agree whole heartedly that the 16 is a powerful racing machine compared to the wave. BUT on a 16 when its blowing 20 knots you most likely wouldn't solo sail her. I bought my wave because thats when I go out when its blowing 20-30 knots and I recorded speed of 18.5 knots on her. Cant imagine anything more fun to blast around in those conditions. I also chose the wave due to the absolute simplicity and brilliant design. I trailer sail it, no place on Long Island to keep cats rigged and safe on the beach, fits in the garage without being overbearing. Im sailing in less than 15 minutes when I get to the beach. no boom to worry about and wouldn't think twice to let kids take her out in light conditions. So its how you plan to sail and use the boat that makes the difference.


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## Group9 (Oct 3, 2010)

I've sailed a Wave, and owned two H16's, and I wouldn't want to go too far out into the ocean in either one.

The last time I sailed a Wave, we were going great and I saw the leeward pontoon dig in a couple of times and really slow us. That was all the warning we had before we pitchpoled. 

But, I did think it was easier to right than a H16. 

We sail in a sound primarily, with good wind and waves that rarely get over a couple of feet high (usually much less). It's perfect for either boat.

But, I sure wouldn't want to take either one out past the barrier islands on a windy day.


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