# Alternatives to the Origo stoves?



## BillMoran

So, I was planning to install an Origo alcohol stove on my sailboat. However, it seems that Dometic has stopped making them.

I'm considering buying a used one. But I'm also using this as an opportunity to consider other options.

My reasons for choosing the Origo in the first place:
* This boat never had a propane system, so installing a propane stove would be a big job to build the lockers and everything.
* I like the fact that the Origo can run off multiple fuels and doesn't require pressurized fuel.

So, does anyone know of any options similar to the Origo stoves that I should investigate?


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## mackrobertson

BillMoran said:


> So, I was planning to install an Origo alcohol stove on my sailboat. However, it seems that Dometic has stopped making them.
> 
> I'm considering buying a used one. But I'm also using this as an opportunity to consider other options.
> 
> My reasons for choosing the Origo in the first place:
> * This boat never had a propane system, so installing a propane stove would be a big job to build the lockers and everything.
> * I like the fact that the Origo can run off multiple fuels and doesn't require pressurized fuel.
> 
> So, does anyone know of any options similar to the Origo stoves that I should investigate?


I recommend a change to propane which is readily available in all countries and in most cases the cooking gas is price controled.

However, Optimus-Primus used to make a Diesel or Kerosene stove that doesn't need a pre-start (pre-heat) fluid like alcohol. I bought a 2-burner counter top for my Herreshoff 28 ketch in the 80's. I don't know if they still make them. I have seen them on eBay under "vintage" stoves.

Since then, I have owned two different boats with alcohol stoves on them, which I promptly decommissioned and replaced with Propane stoves.

My bad experiences with ALCOHOL include;

1.) Severe stinging of the eyes when I used the alcohol stove on both boats and 
2.) An alcohol fire on a sailboat while crossing the gulf in rough weather. The generator wasn't preheated enough and fluid came out of the burner and caught on fire. 
3.) The flames are very hard to see and it burns on the top of water which was used to attempt to put it out. It left a lot of damage on the cabin sole...

Mack


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## RegisteredUser

You can strap propane on the back


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## Arcb

My understanding is some suppliers still have some stock of new Origo stoves if you call around.

It really is hard to beat an Origo for simplicity and safety and fuels available pretty much any where that sells paint, so no problem there.

Unfortunately the only other quality non pressurised alcohol stove I know of is the Trangia, but they are more a camping stove than marine. Not really the same thing.

I have ripped propane systems out of 2 boats for the simplicity of alcohol. I am hoping some one takes over production of Origos from Dometec, but for now, my Origo is on its third boat and has a lot of service life left in it.


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## Minnesail

mackrobertson said:


> My bad experiences with ALCOHOL include;
> 
> 2.) An alcohol fire on a sailboat while crossing the gulf in rough weather. The generator wasn't preheated enough and fluid came out of the burner and caught on fire.


I think this must have been a pressurized alcohol stove.

Origo stoves are unpressurized and require no preheat. They are much, much, much safer than pressurized stoves.

I'm sorry to hear they're no longer being made. I have the one-burner model in my boat and I'm quite fond of it.

There used to be a knockoff by Cookmate, but it looks like they aren't made any longer either.

The good news is that they're very well built and have very few moving parts so there's not much to break. They should be available used for a long time to come.


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## BillMoran

mackrobertson said:


> I recommend a change to propane which is readily available in all countries and in most cases the cooking gas is price controled.
> 
> However, Optimus-Primus used to make a Diesel or Kerosene stove that doesn't need a pre-start (pre-heat) fluid like alcohol. I bought a 2-burner counter top for my Herreshoff 28 ketch in the 80's. I don't know if they still make them. I have seen them on eBay under "vintage" stoves.
> 
> Since then, I have owned two different boats with alcohol stoves on them, which I promptly decommissioned and replaced with Propane stoves.
> 
> My bad experiences with ALCOHOL include;
> 
> 1.) Severe stinging of the eyes when I used the alcohol stove on both boats and
> 2.) An alcohol fire on a sailboat while crossing the gulf in rough weather. The generator wasn't preheated enough and fluid came out of the burner and caught on fire.
> 3.) The flames are very hard to see and it burns on the top of water which was used to attempt to put it out. It left a lot of damage on the cabin sole...
> 
> Mack


Are you referring to a pressurized alcohol stove? Sounds like, as the non-pressurized systems (like Origo) don't have a generator or any preheating.


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## Zemurray

We were fortunate and just bought one a few months ago before they stopped selling. I replaced an old pressure alcohol stove. The Origo is fantastic. I’m so glad we were able to get one. Easy to buy fuel for (i get mine at lowes usually). Denatured alcohol is very easy to buy just about anywhere. The stove lights very easy and works great, haven’t used the oven yet. My wife cooks on it 2-3 times a day. A gallon of fuel last about 10 days at those rates. I had the same concerns as you running propane on a small boat. I would definitely try and find a used or left over.


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## RegisteredUser

Maybe look into reasons they are discontinued.


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## Arcb

I have been trying to find something concrete, only found unsubstantiated internet forum rumors. I would like to know why they were discontunued. 

If some one has a link I would like to know the why. Best stoves I have ever used.


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## chef2sail

Alcohol stoves have cosiderably less BTU than propane. ....just a thought.


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## Minnewaska

Zemurray said:


> ...My wife cooks on it 2-3 times a day. A gallon of fuel last about 10 days at those rates.......


Really? That's interesting. I'm certain that an equivalent volume of propane would last substantially longer. Seems like alcohol fuel storage would be a negative, if you're cruising full time.

We had alcohol stoves, when I was a kid. The blind flame is the biggest negative. I'd never, ever go back, not that I expect that to influence the OP.


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## cthoops

RegisteredUser said:


> Maybe look into reasons they are discontinued.


Probably because it's hard to turn a profit when people only need to buy one of something. Origos are bulletproof - virtually indestructible. Ours is original to the boat (1977) and works perfectly.



Zemurray said:


> My wife cooks on it 2-3 times a day. A gallon of fuel last about 10 days at those rates.


That seems like an awful lot of fuel. We have been cruising full-time for almost 14 months and use our Origo every day, but average just under a gallon a month. Do use use rubber gaskets over the canisters? We do have a few fuel-saving techniques when we make pasta or cook beans (with an added bonus of not heating up the boat when it's already hot out). Maybe that explains the difference.


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## Gladrags1

We love our propane stove. It’s easy to use, efficient, and safe. It burns hotter than alcohol so you cook faster and better. You don’t need to build a locker for your propane, just find a place to hang your tank. Tanks come in different sizes too. We have an 11# aluminum tank that was long and skinny that hung from my davits support until we stopped using a propane grill. You should install a solenoid to make certain there is no propane flowing into the boat in the unlikely event you have a leak. 

Tod


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## contrarian

Seems to me that alcohol is the better choice for part timers and propane for full timers. Propane requiring more diligence to remain safe over time. Don't know that I would want to go to the trouble to convert to propane but if you do it will allow you the opportunity to insure that the system is done properly and that all the appropriate precautions are taken. Boat Poker could probably chime in on this with good advice if you choose to go that route.


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## Minnesail

chef2sail said:


> Alcohol stoves have cosiderably less BTU than propane. ....just a thought.


In general this is true, but it depends on the propane stove. I've been on some charter boats with wimpy a** stoves that take at least as long as my Origo to get a pot of water boiling.

At least on my Origo the flame is not invisible. Maybe there are impurities in the fuel I buy, I don't know, but I can definitely see the flame on my stove. The exception is when I have it turned wayyyyyyy down low, like just barely lit to keep a pot of coffee warm but not boiling. Then the flame is invisible and it would be easy to forget about it, which is a safety hazard.

Different strokes for different folks. Last time I cooked on a big boat I had all four burners going and two pans cooking in the oven! That's not gonna happen with an Origo. On the other hand it would be absurd to fit a propane system to a 22' boat like mine.


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## RegisteredUser

Minnesail said:


> .... On the other hand it would be absurd to fit a propane system to a 22' boat like mine.


Just keep x number of 1lb bottles onboard, refilling them from the 20lb at home.
Camp stove


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## Minnesail

RegisteredUser said:


> Just keep x number of 1lb bottles onboard, refilling them from the 20lb at home.
> Camp stove


I have the 1 lb bottles for my Magma, but the Origo is a lot more convenient.


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## SchockT

Our last boat had a Kenyon pressurized alcohol stove which I hated. We ripped that oven and stove out and put an extra cupboard and countertop in its place. We then bought a couple of portable butane stoves and used those. The nice thing about them is that when we weren't using them we could put them in their cases and stow them away. We could also use them in the cockpit, or on the dock if we wanted to. The butane canisters were cheap and easy to find. Butane has 2.5 times the calorific value of propane, so it takes much less to boil a pot of water.

https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-2000020951-Butane-Stove/dp/B00FGPXVSM#

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


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## Arcb

The problem with butane is the boiling point is about -0.5 C. Which means the stoves stop working at about -0.5 Celcius. Not a problem in warm weather, but not ideal after about mid october here in Ottawa. Even though my sailing season is generally over by early December, I still will spend time on the boat on the hard. Doing projects, or even just hanging out. Nice to be able to make a pot of tea or have some heat, both on and off the water in cooler temperatures.


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## Minnesail

Butane stoves look pretty slick. Like propane, butane is heavier than air so there's a safety issue with keeping the canisters in the cabin.

I've had those 1lb camping canisters of propane leak. I don't completely trust them. I don't know about butane canisters, maybe they're built better.


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## Horace74

You may also want to consider a portable 2 burner butane stove. We have one and it works great.


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## bristol299bob

Im a big fan of my Origo and sad to see that they are no longer available. 

I think it's important to make the distinction between the "old fashioned" pressurized alcohol stoves and the Origo, unpressurized alcohol stove. They are two completely different animals. That they use the same fuel is the *only* common between them. Most of us that have used pressurized alcohol stoves have had a bad experience. But that has no bearing on the suitability of the unpressurized stoves. 

My Origo is a pleasure to use, very safe, and hot. I use it a lot on it and never a complaint (from either cook or guests)


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## paulinnanaimo

I think I can speak with at least some authority. On our 26' boat we have an Origo fixed non pressure stove. We also have a 5# propane bottle mounted on the toe rail and secured to a stanchion which powers the small sized Force 10 bbq. And we also have a propane tank feeding the propane stove and bbq in our tent trailer.
I don't think there is any argument that propane is more efficient and overall less money is spent on fuel. However, as was mentioned earlier, going to the effort and expense of installing propane lines in a part time cruiser seems like too much effort. For us, cruising 5 or 6 weeks full time, the ease and safety of the Origo is a good choice. 
I definitely think that the Origo products are over priced. Because they are made of stainless steel for the most part they last very well.
But the design and engineering is less than great; I have had to make modifications to my unit to make it more functional.
My suggestion to the OP would be to look for a used unit that is in good condition at a decent price. I have seen them advertised both by individuals and in second hand stores.
If one is living aboard and cooking a lot then I would agree that a properly installed propane system would be a good choice.


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## Minnesail

paulinnanaimo said:


> But the design and engineering is less than great; I have had to make modifications to my unit to make it more functional.


What modifications did you make?


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## paulinnanaimo

Minnesail
The first problem is a bit unique I think. Ours is an alcohol/electric combination; I would not have spent the extra money for the electric but I actually inherited the stove almost free. Anyway, the electric heating elements are flat spirals that are supported by 1 inch square tabs that are spot welded in a vertical format. The coils were very uneven and so a pot would sit very crooked. Also, 2 of the 6 supports broke off. I installed stainless bolts which hold things even and will last forever. The other issue is the springs which hold the fuel cannisters. After a few years they lost their ability to hold the cannisters up against the underside mechanism. This led to some evaporating fuel and also what led to the discovery was that a burner would reignite on it's own because the slide gate had not fully extinguished the flame. It's a bit hard to explain but basically I installed wedges under the supports that hold them up more firmly. I admit that these are not huge issues but they were both easily preventable through a little more attention to detail in the design and manufacture. There was also some issues with the electric controls which I was able to resolve. Nothing too big I suppose but this unit was selling in Canada for about 700 dollars at the time I inherited it...20 years ago.


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## MastUndSchotbruch

RegisteredUser said:


> Just keep x number of 1lb bottles onboard, refilling them from the 20lb at home.
> Camp stove


If you mean the standard Coleman (or similar) gas bottles used for camping. be very careful. They are notorious for leaky valves. They are built to be cheap and disposable.

I use them for the grill in the cockpit but would never think about taking them into the cabin.


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## MastUndSchotbruch

BillMoran said:


> So, I was planning to install an Origo alcohol stove on my sailboat. However, it seems that Dometic has stopped making them.
> 
> I'm considering buying a used one. But I'm also using this as an opportunity to consider other options.
> 
> My reasons for choosing the Origo in the first place:
> * This boat never had a propane system, so installing a propane stove would be a big job to build the lockers and everything.
> * I like the fact that the Origo can run off multiple fuels and doesn't require pressurized fuel.
> 
> So, does anyone know of any options similar to the Origo stoves that I should investigate?


I strongly recommend kerosene. We had this discussion before (you can do a search on sailnet) and there are lovers and haters. I am definitely a lover, for the last 18 years (ever since I own my boat). They are also hard to find by now but I feel that kero is the safest high energy fuel you can use on a boat.


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## Minnesail

paulinnanaimo said:


> The first problem is a bit unique I think. Ours is an alcohol/electric combination;


Oh, wild.

Mine has taken a bit of damage because a few times I left it unsecured on a counter and it flew across the cabin during a tack. A couple welds broke, but I drilled them out and put in a small nut and bolt and now it's good as new. I wouldn't have wanted to be down there and get smacked by the sharp edged thing though...


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## JimsCAL

There are LOTS of non-pressurized alcohol burners sold as camping stoves. Just check Amazon. Using two, it would be easy to convert a pressurized stove.


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## Zemurray

chef2sail said:


> Alcohol stoves have cosiderably less BTU than propane. ....just a thought.


I read all the concerns of this prior, and while it may be a fact that the max BTU is lower than propane, we have noticed no discernible difference in cooking as compared to our electric stove at home. Fry, boil water, heat sauces, cook pasta, seafood, sear steak, etc.. Works fine.


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## ZenZone

BillMoran said:


> So, I was planning to install an Origo alcohol stove on my sailboat. However, it seems that Dometic has stopped making them.
> 
> I'm considering buying a used one. But I'm also using this as an opportunity to consider other options.
> 
> My reasons for choosing the Origo in the first place:
> * This boat never had a propane system, so installing a propane stove would be a big job to build the lockers and everything.
> * I like the fact that the Origo can run off multiple fuels and doesn't require pressurized fuel.
> 
> So, does anyone know of any options similar to the Origo stoves that I should investigate?


Hi,
I have an Origo non-pressurized stove/oven combo and love it. My only unresolved issue is that recently I have stopped using it due to tremendous amount of black spot depositing on burnets, pans and rising from the flame. I have tried every brand of denatured alcohol and always the same problem.

My conclusion is the problem COULD be the age/ condition of the canister rather than the fuel itself. I believe the opening mesh area includes some type of absorbent material that allows the alcohol vapor to ignite, so possibly the canister should be replaced. Any thoughts on solution to the spot problem? I use it every day (or at least I used to before the spot problem,) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks. Jude


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## ZenZone

Oops, I mean SOOT problem not spot!


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## Zemurray

ZenZone said:


> Oops, I mean SOOT problem not spot!


We get zero soot on ours. I'd assume either impurities in your fuel, which you said you've tried many of, or maybe as you say the canisters need to be replaced. odd that all 3 of your canisters would exhibit the issue? Did you run them out of fuel repeatedly so that they are all chared and black?

FWIW, I usually get the denatured alcohol from lowes in the blue can. It mentions stove fuel in small print as well.


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## Minnesail

Is it possible that some contaminant got in the canister? Like maybe a pot boiled over and now there's crud on the top of the absorbent pad?


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## paulinnanaimo

A 'tremendous' amount of soot sounds suspicious. Are you sure that you didn't inadvertently use the wrong fuel, maybe varsol or something? If you haven't done so yet, I think you should burn off all the remaining fuel and start with fresh.


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## Arcb

Strange I have experimented with a bunch of different fuels, the only time I have noticed any soot is if a I ran it out of fuel and the wick itself burns.


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## WhatTheKell

My reasons for choosing the Origo in the first place:
* This boat never had a propane system, so installing a propane stove would be a big job to build the lockers and everything.
* I like the fact that the Origo can run off multiple fuels and doesn't require pressurized fuel.

I'm glad you posted this because I didn't know Origo had stopped making stoves.

My (new to me) 28"Kells came with a Kenyon pressurized alcohol stove that hadn't been used in decades. Former owner went with a propane camp stove. I've had several of the little camping bottles leak over the years, so that was out. I took the Kenyon home and got it running, (sort of) but it didn't inspire confidence. 

I looked for other alternatives to propane, but there really aren't any unless money is no object. I grabbed a nice used one on Ebay for 200 at the door. I did find a Canadian outfit that had a couple new ones left in stock for a bit under 500 US delivered.


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## Ulladh

I have the single burner Origo. Always reliable and brings 2 quarts of water to boil in about 10 mins. 
When traveling (not this year), in the morning I make one quart flask of tea and one wide mouth flask of rice, quinoa or farro and vegetable bullion with boiling water. This with a few granola bars will last until mid afternoon. The best thermos meal I made was with quinoa, fish bullion and a can of tuna.

I try not to use it in the cabin as my sailing is usually only in the summer when any excess heat is unbearable, so mostly used in the cockpit.

I also have a Coleman oven to use on top of the Origo, but have only used it twice in 5 years. It works as advertised but I will only use it in the cockpit in light wind and almost glass still water. The oven sitting on top of the Origo is not stable with even the smallest powerboat wake, and the exterior is to hot to touch.

I use denatured alcohol from Lowes, Home Depot or a paint store. A quart will last about a week once in the morning and once in the evening.

I have never had a soot problem but it just may be that I rarely use the Origo in the cabin to notice it.


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## jnorten

Lots of good advice here.

I just build a new fuel tank for my OLD pressure alcohol stove. I like my stove. HOWEVER, I am a 23 year high school science teacher and very comfortable with pressurized alcohol and its behavior. I know that my perspective is unusual. When fully heated and with typical heat settings, you WILL see a pressure alcohol stove flame. To pre-heat, use the least amount of liquid alcohol and be patient--wait until you are certain the alcohol in the burner is vaporized before starting the fuel flow.

But, that's probably not happening here. So, getting back on track:

I've used pressure alcohol, propane (both on boats and camping), as well as a chef's omelette station-style butane canister stove (also boats and camping).

I had a longtime sailing friend that bought a two burner Colman propane camp stove. He put the guts of this stove into his old, gutted pressure alcohol stove and fueled it with canisters.

I guess my point is this: a lot of viable options have been presented in this thread along with their pros and cons. Settle on something and be sure you learn very well the pros and cons of your decision.

Good luck.


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## paulinnanaimo

I too had good service from my Kenyon pressure stove, it worked really well and I never felt it was unsafe. But it was noisy. On quiet mornings my wife and I enjoy our coffee time, it is immeasurably better with the silence of the Origo.


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## CLOSECALL

Noticed a nice Origo alcahol/electric on eBay for 350.00.


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## Tripl_threat59$

BillMoran said:


> So, I was planning to install an Origo alcohol stove on my sailboat. However, it seems that Dometic has stopped making them.
> 
> I'm considering buying a used one. But I'm also using this as an opportunity to consider other options.
> 
> My reasons for choosing the Origo in the first place:
> 
> This boat never had a propane system, so installing a propane stove would be a big job to build the lockers and everything.
> I like the fact that the Origo can run off multiple fuels and doesn't require pressurized fuel.
> 
> So, does anyone know of any options similar to the Origo stoves that I should investigate?


Reviving this old thread to see if anyone has a gimbal kit for sale for a 3000 model and also the fuel diffusers for sale.
Love my Origo but would like to have it gimbaled and I don't have the diffusers (2). The gimbal kit is on ebay for like $130! If anyone has these parts or even an old complete stove, please let me know. Thanks everyone and Happy New Year!


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## roverhi

I bought the diffusers from one of the big chandlerys a couple of months ago. They've sold out of the stoves but may have some of the ancillaries still in stock. Worth getting on line and seeing if they have any stock. Can't remember where I got the diffusers but it was either Fisheries Supply, Defender, or West.


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## Tripl_threat59$

roverhi said:


> I bought the diffusers from one of the big chandlerys a couple of months ago. They've sold out of the stoves but may have some of the ancillaries still in stock. Worth getting on line and seeing if they have any stock. Can't remember where I got the diffusers but it was either Fisheries Supply, Defender, or West.


Thanks roverhi, I checked Defender and WM, they don't have anything but will look at Fisheries.
I appreciate the response. Fair winds.


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## Tripl_threat59$

Tripl_threat59$ said:


> Thanks roverhi, I checked Defender and WM, they don't have anything but will look at Fisheries.
> I appreciate the response. Fair winds.


No luck at Fisheries either. I wonder if they could be 3D printed by someone.


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## Jeff_H

Depending on which version, the gimbals would be pretty easy to make. The simple version were essentially truncated triangular aluminum plates. While the 'official' version had fancy studs that included a bushing, if you wanted to build your own, the stud could be a bolt with a nylock nut etc. I put this quick sketch together to show you how you might be able to build your own. (I forgot to sketch in a washer under the bolt head and between the nylock and the plate bolted to the boat,)









There was a more complicated version of the gimbal on my prior boat, a Laser 28, that would allow the gimbal supports to rotate so that the stove could sit on a shelf below it and not swing but I don't know if that was a Laser 28 thing or an Origo thing..
Edit: The fancier gimbal is made by Origo, and seems to be readily available if you Google search Origo 3000 gimbal a number of sources pop up.
Jeff


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## Tripl_threat59$

Jeff_H said:


> Depending on which version, the gimbals would be pretty easy to make. The simple version were essentially truncated triangular aluminum plates. While the 'official' version had fancy studs that included a bushing, if you wanted to build your own, the stud could be a bolt with a nylock nut etc. I put this quick sketch together to show you how you might be able to build your own. (I forgot to sketch in a washer under the bolt head and between the nylock and the plate bolted to the boat,)
> 
> There was a more complicated version of the gimbal on my prior boat, a Laser 28, that would allow the gimbal supports to rotate so that the stove could sit on a shelf below it and not swing but I don't know if that was a Laser 28 thing or an Origo thing..
> Edit: The fancier gimbal is made by Origo, and seems to be readily available if you Google search Origo 3000 gimbal a number of sources pop up.
> Jeff


Hi Jeff H, Thanks for the info and I did see the gimbal set is available online. FIsheries seems lowest a $105.86. 
I think I could jerry-rig something out of tin or aluminum for the flame diffusers. Appreciate the advice!


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## Jeff_H

Tripl_threat59$ said:


> Hi Jeff H, Thanks for the info and I did see the gimbal set is available online. FIsheries seems lowest a $105.86.
> I think I could jerry-rig something out of tin or aluminum for the flame diffusers. Appreciate the advice!


I don't think that you can make the diffuser out of aluminum since the flame is too hot. I would make it out of copper or stainless steel. I would not use tinned or galvanized steel.

Jeff


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## Tripl_threat59$

Jeff_H said:


> I don't think that you can make the diffuser out of aluminum since the flame is too hot. I would make it out of copper or stainless steel. I would not use tinned or galvanized steel.
> 
> Jeff


Thanks for the tip!


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## pdqaltair

Jeff_H said:


> I don't think that you can make the diffuser out of aluminum since the flame is too hot. I would make it out of copper or stainless steel. I would not use tinned or galvanized steel.
> 
> Jeff


Exactly. I've used copper on other stoves. Easy.


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## hpeer

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> I strongly recommend kerosene. We had this discussion before (you can do a search on sailnet) and there are lovers and haters. I am definitely a lover, for the last 18 years (ever since I own my boat). They are also hard to find by now but I feel that kero is the safest high energy fuel you can use on a boat.


We have kerosene on both boats. The FIRST thing I did on the big boat was replace the propane stove with a kerosene stove.


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## M_Hans

chef2sail said:


> Alcohol stoves have cosiderably less BTU than propane. ....just a thought.


Not true.


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## roverhi

Pressure alcohol stoves are considerably less hot than kerosene or propane. Not the case with the Origo possibly because of area of burner. Still not as hot as the petroleum fuels but close.


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## CLOSECALL

I've been using an origo for a few years and it took around 20 minutes to perk a pot of coffee. My new boat has a propane unit and makes the same pot of coffee in 10 minutes. My highly scientific conclusion is that propane is twice as hot.


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## boatpoker

MastUndSchotbruch said:


> If you mean the standard Coleman (or similar) gas bottles used for camping. be very careful. They are notorious for leaky valves. They are built to be cheap and disposable.
> 
> I use them for the grill in the cockpit but would never think about taking them into the cabin.


If you read the label on those 1lb cannisters it says not to refill. It is illegal in Canada. Don't know about the US.
I'm sure your insurance underwriter will quickly find out what it says on the canister.


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## JimInPB

While most of the 1lb propane cylinders are considered disposable & are not legal to refill, a refillable version does exist - Flame King 1 lb. Refillable Propane Cylinder-YSN164 - The Home Depot



Amazon.com



I also recommend brass caps if you are going to use refilled 1 lb cylinders - https://www.amazon.com/Pieces-Refil...S50PSSQBMEB&psc=1&refRID=FCECDSVS5S50PSSQBMEB


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## JimInPB

My experience with origo stoves is that they run at a high temperature but put out little heat, as strange as that sounds, heat & temperature are not the same thing. This means that it is easy to burn things & if you don't burn them, they are slow to cook. Boiling water for pasta requires constant monitoring & frequent covering. I have also started small fires a few times after carelessly refilling the alcohol. I have since switched to pulling the pods out of the stove & refilling them in the cockpit, then drying them carefully before bringing them down below to use. They do work & I have never replaced one in a boat that came with one, but I would not buy them to install. Better choices exist.

Quite frankly, the camping department in most any Walmart will offer camp stoves that are better to work with compared to an alcohol stove. If you want something a little nicer, West Marine sells this cute little portable unit - WALL LENK CORPORATION Click2Cook Select Butane or Propane Portable Stove With Hose and Regulator Assembly | West Marine Less expensive versions are available elsewhere. Propane tends to be less expensive & easier to find compared to Butane as a fuel.

If your sailboat has a large enough genset, then an inductive cooktop is probably the safest & the best way to go.



https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-single-zone-induction-cooktop/6343732.p?skuId=6343732&ref=212&loc=1&extStoreId=1424&ref=212&loc=1&ds_rl=1260669&ds_rl=1273104&ds_rl=1273104&gclid=Cj0KCQjws-OEBhCkARIsAPhOkIbr7ygrZYZUbRIiLrgG8L7I-mFVTV-lg612MoOrqFAYXj7o4_FxdMMaAlbfEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds





https://www.walmart.com/ip/Rosewill-Induction-Cooker-1800-Watt-Induction-Cooktop-Electric-Burner-Includes-a-10-3-5-QT-Stainless-Steel-Pot-RHAI-13001/50007990?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1859&&adid=22222222227037904152&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=85701363770&wl4=pla-78804717272&wl5=9012002&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=113500275&wl11=online&wl12=50007990&veh=sem&gclid=Cj0KCQjws-OEBhCkARIsAPhOkIaXQ8cGTxAbTJkATRowjma4OVnNbbG1xbMNxd2irEnmmIqudebq97caAneOEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## JimInPB

If you want to learn what it's like to cook on an alcohol stove, you can try making a penny stove - 





I don't use them on the boat.


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## Arcb

JimInPB said:


> My experience with origo stoves is that they run at a high temperature but put put little heat, as strange as that sounds, heat & temperature are not the same thing. This means that it is easy to burn things & if you don't burn them, they are slow to cook. Boiling water for pasta requires constant monitoring & frequent covering.


Constant monitoring for deep frying and popcorn maybe. I make everything on my alcohol stoves, complex curries, popcorn, deep fired bread. They are super easy to use and comparable to many smaller propane burners for heat.

Percolating a pot of coffee takes me about 10 minutes.

Origo stoves are the best alcohol stoves I have used but all non pressurized alcohol stoves that I have used are, hot, safe and easy to use. I heat both my boat and RV with an Origo 5100 as well.


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## JimsCAL

As an engineer with 3 degrees in marine and mechanical engineering, some of this discussion and the misuse of combustion terms makes me cringe. The flame temperature or the heating value (Btu/lb) of the fuel are not important in determining how quickly something can be heated on a stove. What is important is the Btu/hr rating of the burner. Yes you will use more of a fuel with a lower heating value to boil a pot of water, but the time to do is based on the Btu/hr rating of the burner, not the fuel used. Origo burners are rated at 6800 Btu/hr. The burners on marine propane stoves are typically rated from a little over 3000 Btu/hr to 9000 Btu/hr. Take if from there.


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## boatpoker

JimInPB said:


> While most of the 1lb propane cylinders are considered disposable & are not legal to refill, a refillable version does exist - Flame King 1 lb. Refillable Propane Cylinder-YSN164 - The Home Depot
> 
> http://[URL]https://www.amazon.com/Flame-King-Refillable-Propane-Cylinder/dp/B07F9LCYRT
> I also recommend brass caps if you are going to use refilled 1 lb cylinders - https://www.amazon.com/Pieces-Refil...S50PSSQBMEB&psc=1&refRID=FCECDSVS5S50PSSQBMEB


I've come across this dubious company before. They claim to be a world class mfg of propane tanks but appear to actually consist of two retail outlets. I've done some research and been unable to verify any of their claims


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## JimInPB

boatpoker said:


> I've come across this dubious company before. They claim to be a world class mfg of propane tanks but appear to actually consist of two retail outlets. I've done some research and been unable to verify any of their claims


Have you actually tried using one?


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## JimInPB

JimsCAL said:


> As an engineer with 3 degrees in marine and mechanical engineering, some of this discussion and the misuse of combustion terms makes me cringe. The flame temperature or the heating value (Btu/lb) of the fuel are not important in determining how quickly something can be heated on a stove. What is important is the Btu/hr rating of the burner. Yes you will use more of a fuel with a lower heating value to boil a pot of water, but the time to do is based on the Btu/hr rating of the burner, not the fuel used. Origo burners are rated at 6800 Btu/hr. The burners on marine propane stoves are typically rated from a little over 3000 Btu/hr to 9000 Btu/hr. Take if from there.


My apologies. If I had been giving a dissertation to a room full of engineers, my choice of terminology probably would have been a bit different. Here, I was trying to convey usable information in layman's terms & minimize unnecessary details for the sake of brevity. I'll see if I can be slightly more concise in a second attempt & try to strike a better balance.

The higher flame temperature seems to be what causes food to burn more easily on the one stove, especially when using pans that do not have a thick base. Proper pans & proper technique can overcome this issue.

The propane burner that I was using for comparison was this one - WALL LENK CORPORATION Click2Cook Select Butane or Propane Portable Stove With Hose and Regulator Assembly | West Marine. It's rated at 8k btu. If I put it side by side with my Origio, I can boil pasta uncovered on the propane stove, but I need to mostly cover the same pot on the Origo to keep the water boiling. With the pasta in the water & the cover on, the Origo will usually boil over after a minute or two and make a mess if I don't watch it & move the cover occasionally.

Thank you for listing the btu rating of the Origo. I was previously unaware of that value.


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## pdqaltair

The heat output of Orgio stoves will drop over time if not properly maintained or if substandard fuel is burned. The wick becomes fouled and less fuel is delivered to the flame. Also, heavy (slow to evaporate) components, primarily water, gradually accumulate in the canister, reducing alcohol evaporation.


Heavy organics can accumulate on the wick, slowing combustion. These come from either the fuel or from food spills. The cure is to burn the canister empty, allow to dry in the sun for several days, finish drying in an oven, burn the surface to ash with a propane torch, and brush off the ash. I have rejuvinated several canisters this way. The advice came from the factory.
Substandard fuel can do the same thing. Water accumulates. Again, the cure is to run the canister dry and then dry in an oven (350F for 2 hours).

A good canister will boil a quart in the same time as any other burner with the same rating. A malfunctioning canister, obviously, takes longer.


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## Minnewaska

I've recently been rethinking this whole cooktop game. I stumbled into using a portable induction hob. A single electric portable induction cooktop. I'm amazed by how quickly it heats saute pans and boils water. Seriously a fraction of the time of propane, let alone some alternatives. 

It requires a generator, of course, but gasoline and diesel are far more readily available than cooking gas. I'm seriously considering replacing the entire stove/oven with electric. The one I'm looking at will cycle power usage rapidly between the various elements, so you never draw for the entire thing at once. Clever.


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## boatpoker

JimInPB said:


> Have you actually tried using one?


No I have not. I try to keep up on things like this in an effort to ensure the accuracy of my survey reports,


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## jarcher

pdqaltair said:


> The heat output of Orgio stoves will drop over time if not properly maintained or if substandard fuel is burned. The wick becomes fouled and less fuel is delivered to the flame. Also, heavy (slow to evaporate) components, primarily water, gradually accumulate in the canister, reducing alcohol evaporation.


I recently got a new (to me) boat, a 2011. It came with an Origo 3000 which I had not even thought about until a few days ago. I'm planning a 5 day trip and it would be nice to use it, if it works. Reading around, it seems like the issue would be the canisters, which are available at what I think is an outrageous price of $179 each.

I'm wondering, how would I evaluate the canisters I have? My guess is that the stove has never been used. There is some rust on it, and I plan to inspect it more carefully this weekend. What should I be looking for?


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## pdqaltair

jarcher said:


> I recently got a new (to me) boat, a 2011. It came with an Origo 3000 which I had not even thought about until a few days ago. I'm planning a 5 day trip and it would be nice to use it, if it works. Reading around, it seems like the issue would be the canisters, which are available at what I think is an outrageous price of $179 each.
> 
> I'm wondering, how would I evaluate the canisters I have? My guess is that the stove has never been used. There is some rust on it, and I plan to inspect it more carefully this weekend. What should I be looking for?



Leaks, obviously.
Boil a pot of water and note the time.
There should be a round gasket that covers the opening of the canister when not in use to prevent evaporation. Often they are lost. You can cut a replacement from a large inner tube or other alcohol-resistant elastomer. Let the stove cool, place it over the opening, and lower the top.
I suggest carrying the fuel in 1 liter bottles. Larger containers lead to spills.


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## jarcher

pdqaltair said:


> Leaks, obviously.
> Boil a pot of water and note the time.
> There should be a round gasket that covers the opening of the canister when not in use to prevent evaporation. Often they are lost. You can cut a replacement from a large inner tube or other alcohol-resistant elastomer. Let the stove cool, place it over the opening, and lower the top.
> I suggest carrying the fuel in 1 liter bottles. Larger containers lead to spills.


Simple enough thank you. Is there anything about the wick I should check? Is it reasonable that if they have not been used they would be fine, or could something degrade with time?


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## Jeff_H

I have never heard of the canisters going bad or leaking. I have 20 year old canisters that have been used a lot during that whole period and they still work perfectly. The key is to use a grade of alcohol marked as stove fuel (most but not all West Marine and hardware store denatured alcohol is labeled as such). The only way that the 'wick' can go bad is if someone burned an inappropriate alcohol, in which case the top of the wick would be black with carbon build up. There are ways to correct that mentioned in the posts above. 
I buy alcohol by the gallon since that is the least expensive way and then pour it into a smaller bottle with a smaller spout that makes filling the canister much easier. 








1 Quart (32 oz.) Cone Top Can with 1-1/8


The 30W32C is a 32 oz 1-1/8




www.thecarycompany.com





Jeff


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## JimsCAL

These are pretty simple devices. Not a lot to go wrong.  Even if you can't find the rubber discs pdqaltair mentioned, the additional loss of fuel due to evaporation won't be a major issue in 5 days. Buy some fuel and try it.


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## jarcher

Several months ago I sold my house, and in doing I sold a lot of the contents. I had an older Origo stove in my garage I sold fairly cheap. I'm regretting that now! Okay next time I'm at the boat I'll pour some stove fuel in and see what happens. I read the manual, it seems hard to screw this up. Thanks for the tips!


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## Jeff_H

jarcher said:


> Several months ago I sold my house, and in doing I sold a lot of the contents. I had an older Origo stove in my garage I sold fairly cheap. I'm regretting that now! Okay next time I'm at the boat I'll pour some stove fuel in and see what happens. I read the manual, it seems hard to screw this up. Thanks for the tips!


To be clear, Origo's do not use 'stove fuel', which is normally 'white gas'. Origo's use denatured alcohol, but the alcohol needs to be marked 'suitable for stove fuel'.


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## Arcb

It's probably fine. My Origo is on its third boat now, I keep moving it from one to the next. It looks like it's been through a tank battle but still functions like new. There isn't much to go wrong with them.


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## jarcher

Jeff_H said:


> To be clear, Origo's do not use 'stove fuel', which is normally 'white gas'. Origo's use denatured alcohol, but the alcohol needs to be marked 'suitable for stove fuel'.


Oh thanks for clarifying that!


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## jarcher

Well I decided to take a trip down to the boat to play with the stove. I just grabbed it and brought it home. On closer look, what I thought was surface rust was actually baked on grime and gunk. I hit it with a can of "Magic Stainless Steel Cleaner" and although it didn't come out perfect it does look one heck of a lot better, although I scratched it trying to get that grime off. The canisters looked pretty good, and I think the right hand one and it's burner have even been used.

I just filled the left hand one, and it fired right up. The flame was easier to see than I expected from reading here (yes I did get alcohol marked "Fuel"). I set a good sized covered pot with several inches of water, and it was boiling aggressively in nine minutes.

So I'm in great shape! This stove even has the black circles used to cover the canisters. One of the bolts / knobs on the gimbal is not correct, I'll try to find a replacement but overall I think I'm ion great shape with this.

Thanks to all of you for your help! 

PS - Those are crappy pics because of poor lighting, it actually looks much more shiny than those show. I'm tempted to go into business making these things!


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## pdqaltair

Visibility of the flame depends on the type of alcohol and the denaturing agents. Methanol is nearly invisible, ethanol is faint, and isopropyl is quite visible (and results in soot on the pot). For example, ethanol where isopropyl is used to denature is far more visible than methanol, and thus is often used for denatured alcohol fireplace fuels, but as a result you may get some soot on the pot. It's a trade off.


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## JimInPB

Jeff_H said:


> To be clear, Origo's do not use 'stove fuel', which is normally 'white gas'. Origo's use denatured alcohol, but the alcohol needs to be marked 'suitable for stove fuel'.


I usually use the alcohol that is marked as stove fuel, but in the past, I have also used 91% rubbing alcohol. I did not notice a difference. Do you know of a reason why 91% rubbing alcohol should not be used?


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## Jeff_H

JimInPB said:


> I usually use the alcohol that is marked as stove fuel, but in the past, I have also used 91% rubbing alcohol. I did not notice a difference. Do you know of a reason why 91% rubbing alcohol should not be used?


Yes, the water in the rubbing alcohol means that the burner doesn't burn as hot so it carbons up the burner.


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## JimsCAL

Actually the adiabatic flame temperatures of ethanol and isopropol (rubbing) alcohol are almost identical. Depends on what the other 30% of stuff they add to it. The alcohol stove fuel is mostly just ethanol, methanol and/or isopropol alcohol. Mixture varies widely.


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## pdqaltair

JimInPB said:


> I usually use the alcohol that is marked as stove fuel, but in the past, I have also used 91% rubbing alcohol. I did not notice a difference. Do you know of a reason why 91% rubbing alcohol should not be used?


a. Isopropyl will put more soot on the pot and the flame will be more visible. Some complain about the smeel, because combustion can be less complete.

b. Isopropyl does NOT form an azeotrope with water, which means the less volatile water will gradually build up in the canister (will take several fillings for this to become observable) and gradually it will burn less well. At that point the only cure is to dry and cook-out the canister in an oven at about 350 for several hours. Ethanol does not do this because water and the chosen denaturing agents are chosen to be those that evaporate along with the ethanol. (Ethanol forms many azeotropes--Google that term. Other alcohols generarlly do not, or they are few. ethanol is the only one which azeotropes strongly with water.)

So you will probably regret burning 91% iso if you do it for long.


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## Arcb

I use Methyl Hydrate from Canadian Tire in my Origo. It works well.

I would skip the Isopropyl. It would probably work , but will not burn as well as some other fuels.


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## jarcher

I realize this will vary tremendously for a bunch of reasons, but I'm wondering quickly a canister of fuel (filed partially as the instructions advise) will burn to empty. I'm planning five days of sailing with a crew of 6, and we'll probably want to make a bunch of hot meals.

Thanks!


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## JimInPB

Jeff_H said:


> Yes, the water in the rubbing alcohol means that the burner doesn't burn as hot so it carbons up the burner.


I was using the 91%, not the 70%. I haven't taken a hydrometer to the "fuel alcohol" yet to test it, but I would be surprised if it is any higher than 91%. I'll report back when I find out.


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## Arcb

jarcher said:


> I realize this will vary tremendously for a bunch of reasons, but I'm wondering quickly a canister of fuel (filed partially as the instructions advise) will burn to empty. I'm planning five days of sailing with a crew of 6, and we'll probably want to make a bunch of hot meals.
> 
> Thanks!


I would figure ~5 hours on high for a full tank (1200 ccs), maybe less. I would fill it and keep it full. Running out of fuel half way through your bacon and eggs is annoying and cooking alcohol is cheap. 6 guys will go through quite a bit of fuel.


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## Jeff_H

Two separate comments....
1) I apologise but I did not realize that rubbing alcohol came in 91% alcohol. I was only familiar with the lower concentration. 
2) I tend to top off the canisters before starting to cook. My general sense is that it takes roughly half a cup of alcohol to make a full box of pasta, and half of that to make a pot of coffee or an omelette. 
Jeff


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## hpeer

We use alcohol to start our pressure kero stove. A few months ago I bought a gallon can of alcohol specifically marked as “suitable for stove fuel” right on the can. It burned very poorly with a yellow flame. We ended up giving it away. I have had similar issues with kero that burned OK but left a LOT of deposits and turned brown when warmed. Got rid of that also. 

If anyone is interested I know of a brand new Seward pressure stove for sale in Beaufort, NC. I believe it has never been lite.


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## jarcher

Hey two more questions...

Can someone recommend a specific brand of fuel that burns very cleanly?

Regarding the gimbals, someone went and did something to one of the bolts that is nearly impossible to describe, and I don't have a picture, but the bottom line is that it not sticks out toward the stove much further than it originally did. This is a problem because it prevents the stove from being opened while attached to the gimbals, which means the fuel canisters can't be removed to be filled.

So, I'm looking for a replacement bolt/knob for that. I presume I could use an ordinary bolt with a wide head and a fender washer but it would be great to have something similar to the original.


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## Arcb

Did spring refurbish of my Origo 5100 today. Pretty much just dish soap, hot water and steel wool. Not much I can do about the dents though.

My trusty work horse stove will be doing double duty this summer. Will be the cooker for our RV and transferred to the trailer sailer by day.

RV came with Propane cooker, fridge and furnace, but we are happy to cook most meals on the Origo at the picnic table.


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## Zemurray

jarcher said:


> I realize this will vary tremendously for a bunch of reasons, but I'm wondering quickly a canister of fuel (filed partially as the instructions advise) will burn to empty. I'm planning five days of sailing with a crew of 6, and we'll probably want to make a bunch of hot meals.
> 
> Thanks!


my wife and I get about a month out of a 1 gallon can of alcohol fuel. We use both burners for coffee and a steamer every morning. We do a hot breakfast about every other day. We do a hot dinner every night that often uses both burners. I just got back from a month on the boat and as usual, we used about a gallon.


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## jarcher

Thanks everyone. Me and 5 other guys just did, well, tried to do, a delivery from RI to SC. Due to weather we were stopped at OBX but we used the stove quite a bit and it worked great!


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## Michael Bailey

We have used Origo cook stoves for years. I think that they work as advertised. I used to put alcohol in an old dish washing soap container. Then take the canister into the cockpit to fill. Spilling alcohol inside the boat is really dangerous. I could easily have burned up our boat until I figured that out. We switched to propane after helping deliver a friends boat which meant crossing an ocean. Propane is much easier and I think safer. Handling alcohol without spilling while bouncing all over the place in the evening with pray and all.... On our current boat we removed the original Origo stove and wood heating stove and replaced them with propane Dickenson units. They fit right in the same places. We did build a proper propane locker. Luckily the boats aft deck was perfect for that. It wasn't cheap. Probably about three grand US. Also, it was a winter project for me. Several hours of work. I didn't keep track. Dickenson stoves a quality units. The company is located in British Columbia, Canada. They have always been very professional and helpful.


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## deniseO30

I have my own discussion thread going about these alcohol stoves I'm pretty happy I didn't go through the expense of changing out to propane just because I was spoiled and had propane on my other boat.

Hey my origo 3000 has fried bacon, eggs, even scrapple and can easily burn pancakes! So it does cook everything I would normally cook. Even the little oven works ok, it's a little slow to heat up but it does work.

I fill the canisters in the sink or outdoors and because alcohol is water soluble it's easy to get rid of.








Origo .. just need to know 2 things!


I never fill the canisters full. I only pour in the amount I'll need to cook the meal. Ditto. I use a small squeeze bottle for filling canisters.




www.sailnet.com


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## Jeff_H

Michael Bailey said:


> We have used Origo cook stoves for years. I think that they work as advertised. I used to put alcohol in an old dish washing soap container. Then take the canister into the cockpit to fill. Spilling alcohol inside the boat is really dangerous. I could easily have burned up our boat until I figured that out. We switched to propane after helping deliver a friends boat which meant crossing an ocean. Propane is much easier and I think safer. Handling alcohol without spilling while bouncing all over the place in the evening with pray and all.... On our current boat we removed the original Origo stove and wood heating stove and replaced them with propane Dickenson units. They fit right in the same places. We did build a proper propane locker. Luckily the boats aft deck was perfect for that. It wasn't cheap. Probably about three grand US. Also, it was a winter project for me. Several hours of work. I didn't keep track. Dickenson stoves a quality units. The company is located in British Columbia, Canada. They have always been very professional and helpful.


Spilled alcohol is not all that dangerous. A small spill evaporates safely before you can get a paper towel. a larger spill is easy to wipe it up with a towel and evaporates quickly and without leaving a residue. Even a larger spill is easy to wipe up with a towel and if you are concerned about having an alcohol soaked towel around, then spray it with water to dilute the alcohol and let it dry., 

What is dangerous is propane. In my life, every single sailboat explosion that I have personal knowledge of, has been a boat with a propane stove and a diesel engine. 

Jeff


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## Michael Bailey

Jeff_H said:


> Spilled alcohol is not all that dangerous. A small spill evaporates safely before you can get a paper towel. a larger spill is easy to wipe it up with a towel and evaporates quickly and without leaving a residue. Even a larger spill is easy to wipe up with a towel and if you are concerned about having an alcohol soaked towel around, then spray it with water to dilute the alcohol and let it dry.,
> 
> What is dangerous is propane. In my life, every single sailboat explosion that I have personal knowledge of, has been a boat with a propane stove and a diesel engine.
> 
> Jeff


Hi Jeff, I'm not setting myself as the authority just my opinion.


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## pdqaltair

Re. Filling an alcohol canister:

Store the fuel in proper aluminum fuel bottles. Neither the store can nor dish washing liquid bottles are designed for pouring flammable liquids. Honestly, I've never had a spill. I use Sigg bottles which I fill with a funnel from the gallon can.
The sink is the simplest place to fill them. No need to go in the cockpit. If there is a spill, turn on the tap for a second. You can also wipe it up with a wash cloth and hang that outside to dry. But you wont have spills if they are not overfilled.
Use the gasket and you won't lose as much fuel to evaporation. Probably 1/2 the users have lost the gasket.
I've had installed propane systems too (stove, heater, and hot water). Obviously, they must be well maintained. Great to use, but unforgiving of poor maintenance or design. You must be committed to replacing hoses before they fail, detectors must be tested regularly, and should be shut off at the bottle when not in active use.


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## Francesco Tamburrano

ORIGO IS EXCEPTIONAL! I use it since last century, after having used other tipes, mainly propane-butane fueled.
Origo is totally safe, I use to consume 1 liter of alcohol per week while cooking every day, it takes 10 min to boil 1 liter of water (8 min with propane). It is made with stainless steel, indestructible (that's the reason they discontinued the production: no turn-over). A wrong product in this consumer once-through , throw-away world. Previous propane stoves were rusting and had to change often. With Origo you buy one for your lifetime. You poor alcohol in the container full of porous materia, then if you put the container upside-down, not even one drop of liquid goes out! Safety is total, efficiency 100%, never anything to replace, except (every ten years) the rubber discs used to blind the access when not in use (necessary operation not to get alcohol evaporate). There is nothin better : this is my 60 years sailing experience. As usual, bad money displaces the good one. And in a consumer world there is no place for good, long-lasting products. This world is totally wrong and has to change.


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## SanderO

Boat came with a stainless steel propane 3 burner cooker with an oven. Works fine, no rust... carry 2 - 10# alum bottles of propane. Why would I consider anything else?


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## SanderO

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