# "Women only" learn-to-sail courses?



## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

I've heard of these but never done one. In fact, most of my formal sailing training was in settings (like Navy) where differences were minimized, not catered to. I have to admit that I don't get it. The forces of nature and physics that the sailboat responds to don't particularly care if you're male or female. There are tasks on the boat that flat out require strength - though it could be argued that the better you are, the more you use skill and foresight instead.

I'm curious about these sorts of courses, that many (men!) here have recommended for new sailing spouses. Are they truly responding to differences in the way women, or just individual people, learn? The whole idea seems somehow condescending to me.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Actually there are differences in the general ways males and females learn things and this is being proven out in same sex classroom experiments where the teachig is geared to the gender learning styles. 
That said...I think the courses like "womanship" etc.teach the same stuff that the standard ASA courses teach and don't really pay much attention to the latest pedagogy theories. The difference is that it is generally women doing the teaching and there are no alpha males posturing or yelling or making it difficult for others to ask a question or express their fears. I've known two women (who could make a sailor blush and hold their own with the guys) who learned in "women's" courses and came away loving the experience and each made friends with others that they still keep up with today. They found nothing condescending in the experience and indeed felt like they were more individually challenged than they would have been if guys had been there. 
I think he availability and long term operation of such choices speaks to the fact that many women prefer to learn this way. It is just as apparent that many prefer to learn in standard ASA type courses or in couples type courses. Nice to have the choice!

http://wik.ed.uiuc.edu/index.php/Gender_Differences ...for some gender learning difference facts and issues


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Another reason is that in many couples, one of the partners is dominant and the other will give way to them in making decisions or doing things and often this one giving way is the woman... By having a women's only course, there is a much greater possibility of her learning everything she needs to know to sail a boat single-handed, which might not happen if her spouse/partner were there. 

IMHO, both halves of a cruising couple need to be able to sail the boat single-handed under almost all conditions. If one is injured, sick, falls overboard or otherwise incapacitated.... the other will effectively be singlehanding.


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

Actually, if one partner was "dominant" in the marriage it would be an excellent temptation to leave him if he fell in ...


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

These are all great post. I cannot agree any more than what was said. Eryka, you and I it sounds like we are cut from the same cloth. Strong woman, who isn't afraid of speaking your mind. However, as you well know most women aren't like that hence very successful businesses to help out women sail with other women. It is the same in the flying business as well. Husband/boyfriends make lousy teachers to their other partners and it is rarely done successfully. There is no greater way to see this disparity than to go to the womens sailing convention in So Calif in Feb and hear what women say and talk about.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

eryka said:


> Actually, if one partner was "dominant" in the marriage it would be an excellent temptation to leave him if he fell in ...


Heh..heh...heh...maybe that's why hubby #1 didn't suggest learning to sail...Eryka, you're a little wicked. I think you and I would get along pretty well!


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## Livia (Jul 20, 2006)

I believe they start with a rigorous line of courses such as:
- Pink sails: where to locate, how to fly
- Sailing harnesses and breast management
- The effect of estrogen on winches

JUST KIDDING

I haven't taken a women-only sailing course but my understanding is similar to what others have posted - that they are simply "normal" sailing courses taught by women to women. Some women will find that a better learning environment so I'm glad the courses exist.

I've had informal instruction in rock climbing by women and it was useful in eliminating my own baggage and limitations that I brought to the sport as a woman. In a sport with many fewer women than men it was freeing to see women kicking arse and pulling down hard and it was useful to me to have female climbing role models.

YMMV of course.

I think that the reason that I don't feel the need for a woman only sailing course is that the men I hang around with are open to expressing emotion, are relatively non competitive and are comfortable with female leadership...and I hang around with tough, take charge, get dirt under your nails women. I've emphasized the non-traditional aspects of each, I guess I should say that the men and women are more alike and less like separate species than other people's groups of friends.

Rather than taking a women only class, I chose a woman friendly sailing partner (my fabulous husband) 

I think some of the differences in gender needs are cultural and generational.


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

To me it seems a giant leap from a woman learning to sail taught by a husband or boyfriend, to dismissing the possibility of learning from 50% of the human race! I cringe at something that looks like an echo of 'separate but equal' - we as a society have been down that road before and it didn't turn out so well the first time!!! Melissa, I think your point (that I agree with pretty strongly too) is the same as that in the link Cam's posted, which hints that most of the differences are based on societal expectations. Oh well, once a rebel ...  

What do they talk about in SoCal (pls translate from valley-speak for me)

DJ- You're on! I'll brew up a big pot of coffee!


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

Livia - too funny! Are those special harnesses sized by bra cup size? And you get your choice of color - dark pink, light pink, sunset pink, flamingo pink ...


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

The precepts of Cam's post on pedalogy aside (which I firmly believe in BTW) if my wife learns better, and thereby enjoys sailing more when taught by a woman, I'm all for it. We are seriously considering having a 6 pack toting, experienced on our boat, licensed skipper take her out for a day on our new boat; not because it would be a woman teaching, but just so she can learn from someone who is not me. Ego aside, I'll donate my bucks for that anyday of the week.
Having said that, and as a possible expansion on Womanship's business line, shouldn't these types of schools open classes up to Men only curriculums so we can truly understand the differences as applied to onboard activities (men being too stupid to learn if not directly related)?


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## Livia (Jul 20, 2006)

eryka said:


> Livia - too funny! Are those harnesses sized by bra cup size?


Yes, for the men as well.


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

Melrna said:


> Eryka, you and I it sounds like we are cut from the same cloth. .


I think so too and look forward to meeting you later this week at Wet Dog's dock.


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

I will be there Friday and look forward to meeting you and everyone else. Just bought a great bottle of scotch in Japan yesterday just for the occasion ( Never could figure out why duty free scotch in Japan is so cheap).


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Any other experienced female sailors in the Annapolis area
Sailing schools are good, but weekdays mostly and it's very hard to get time off.
Let me go out on a limb here, any chance you have the experience to teach, and would be willing to day sail on a weekend day with my wife? I'm not talking licensed etc.. I could put this in the crew wanted section, but I don't want crew, I want an experienced female skipper type to take my wife out and build her confidence. She has skippered our old boat (Hunter 31) with other's aboard, but has not yet done that on our new one (2007 Gemini catamaran). I'd be willing and able to sit on the dock, or just go away.
- oh, yes, we (wife and I) have discussed this before.

Still plenty of season left; I'd love to start next year on a better foot.

PM, email or post appreciated. We can always say hi at the boat show this weekend and make arrangements (run like hell etc..)
ChucklesR


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Chuckles-

That sounds like an excellent idea... I think you need to follow up with Eryka and company about it... Also have your better half log on and join the crew here at Sailnet.


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

chucklesR said:


> Any other experienced female sailors in the Annapolis area
> PM, email or post appreciated. We can always say hi at the boat show this weekend and make arrangements (run like hell etc..)
> ChucklesR


 Lets talk about it Friday night at the Wet Dog over drinks. Maybe if I get you drunk enough you cannot run away to fast!


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

chucklesR said:


> Any other experienced female sailors in the Annapolis area
> Sailing schools are good, but weekdays mostly and it's very hard to get time off.
> Let me go out on a limb here, any chance you have the experience to teach, and would be willing to day sail on a weekend day with my wife? I'm not talking licensed etc.. I could put this in the crew wanted section, but I don't want crew, I want an experienced female skipper type to take my wife out and build her confidence. She has skippered our old boat (Hunter 31) with other's aboard, but has not yet done that on our new one (2007 Gemini catamaran). I'd be willing and able to sit on the dock, or just go away.
> - oh, yes, we (wife and I) have discussed this before.
> ...


My suggestion is to have your wife log on and discuss it with peers in hersailnet.

- CD


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

My thoughts exactly... 


Cruisingdad said:


> My suggestion is to have your wife log on and discuss it with peers in hersailnet.
> 
> - CD


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## SailorPam (Sep 18, 2007)

Sailing, golf, skiing - don't learn from your partner. I took golf lessons and still my hubby felt compelled to *help*. The final solution was instigating a one stroke penalty for each piece of unsolicited advice. THAT worked. And he was glad to point that out when we were paired with some guy who had the same compulsion. I haven't found the sailing equivalent yet, but since I single-handed our boat before he did, he's been better. I've heard keel-hauling has been used with some success.....


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

I think it's a question of what works best for each person. Everyone has their own comfort level, and when they can learn anything within that level, it can only be benefical. Not that they shouldn't challenge themselves, just that when first starting out, I feel it's best to establish a sense of confidence first. As with anything, getting the fundamentals down first is always better in the long run.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

A Taser works pretty well too... 


SailorPam said:


> Sailing, golf, skiing - don't learn from your partner. I took golf lessons and still my hubby felt compelled to *help*. The final solution was instigating a one stroke penalty for each piece of unsolicited advice. THAT worked. And he was glad to point that out when we were paired with some guy who had the same compulsion. I haven't found the sailing equivalent yet, but since I single-handed our boat before he did, he's been better. I've heard keel-hauling has been used with some success.....


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Great posts, perfect timing. My wife has never had any interest in learning to sail, we have had boats forever (married 36 yrs). She grew up in power boats and runs/docks our 28' commercial crab boat, but until last week on a 9 day sail she has never expressed any interest in learning to run the sailboat by herself. Not sure what changed but now, not only does she want to learn, but she wants to spend 3-5 months of the year cruising (yes!). My first reaction(non-verbal) was "I would love to teach you as much as you want to learn", but instead I said "you know, I've heard there are sailing classed taught by women, maybe that would be a good way to start". She was really interested and we are going to see what's available and let her decide when, etc. I don't think it is a question of intimidation(hope not), I just think she would feel more comfortable in an all female situation. Either way, I am all for it.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Sorry for the delay, yesterday was a off day. I'll see what the wife's plans are for Friday, we might be able to add the Wet Dog to the list. If so you'll know me by the avatar pic (yeah, that's really me, bald head an all).
This being boat show weekend in Annapolis I have a feeling it is going to be a tad on the overpopulated, noisy side (what sailor's noisy?, never).

Getting her on sailnet, not likely - she's not a forum kinda person.

Back to the threads..


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

SailorPam said:


> Sailing, golf, skiing - don't learn from your partner. I took golf lessons and still my hubby felt compelled to *help*. The final solution was instigating a one stroke penalty for each piece of unsolicited advice. THAT worked. And he was glad to point that out when we were paired with some guy who had the same compulsion. I haven't found the sailing equivalent yet, but since I single-handed our boat before he did, he's been better. I've heard keel-hauling has been used with some success.....


SailorPam,

Here's something that might work when sailing: If HE is nagging or yelling at you, calmly reach over and remove both winch handles from their respective holders or winches. Take one and throw it overboard. Dangle the other over the side of the boat and firmly tell him if he makes one more critical comment the second winch handle will join the first. This should button him up pretty quickly. He'll know you mean business, and hopefully will think twice before criticizing in the future.

If he behaves better, in a few years you can buy him a replacement handle as a gift and have a good laugh.

Many years ago I read about a woman who did this and she claimed it was highly effective. I added the part about buying a replacment as a gift because I cringe at the thought of how expensive they are. But don't let that stop you....


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## SailorPam (Sep 18, 2007)

JohnRPollard said:


> SailorPam,
> 
> Here's something that might work when sailing: If HE is nagging or yelling at you, calmly reach over and remove both winch handles from their respective holders or winches. Take one and throw it overboard. Dangle the other over the side of the boat and firmly tell him if he makes one more critical comment the second winch handle will join the first. This should button him up pretty quickly. He'll know you mean business, and hopefully will think twice before criticizing in the future.


Yikes!  Did I mention I'm a cruiser? Way too cheap for that maneuver. But I might consider tossing his favorite hat  Besides he's too wonderful to punish, he's been very patient with my learning curve.

BTW I came up with a new definition of the difference between racers & cruisers: Racers want to finish first, cruisers never want to finish


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

SailorPam said:


> BTW I came up with a new definition of the difference between racers & cruisers: Racers want to finish first, cruisers never want to finish


That is stunningly accurate!


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

Welcome Pam to hersailnet. Great words spoken. I like the idea of the tossing the wrench in.. Will have to put that in my bag of tricks.


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