# Galvanized vs. Stainless Rigging



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I need to redo the standing rigging on our O'day 35. The rigger we feel comfortable with has suggested using galvanized over stainless. Any thoughts on this?


----------



## SVCarolena (Oct 5, 2007)

I've never heard of using galvanized for rigging. Is it really that much less expensive than stainless? I see that your signature says you are in DC, are you on a fresh water portion of the Potomac? Personally, I'd go stainless. Our boat is on the Occoquan where the water is primiarily fresh, but I still wouldn't feel comfortable with galvanized.


----------



## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I've never seen galvanized standing rigging on a boat like that... can't imagine why you'd want to do so.....


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I've seen plenty of galvanized on old schooners etc. but never on a modern production boat. Spend the money for the reliabiity and long life of stainless.


----------



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*On a ..*

On a schooner maybe? On a 35 footer I've never even seen it for sale?? Pay now or pay later... I'd opt for 304 or 316 stainless and my rigger only sells 316 these days but 95% of his work is on salt water..


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Go with 316 Stainless... it is a bit weaker than 304 stainless, but far more corrosion resistant and not subject to the chloride ion stress cracking that 304 can suffer from.


----------



## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

Everything at your dock is held together with galvanized hardware, where it is always exposed to water. All the power line guying all around the marina, and everywhere else in your state are all galvanized. Galvanized guy strand is all high tensile alloy steel, typically 50% stronger than the same size stainless guy strand. Galvanized steel doesn't suffer from crevice corrosion, which is why it is used underwater, and stainless isn't. Stainless fails from metal fatigue much faster that galvanized steel. Galvanized rigging costs much less. If your rigger is competent then he's probably giving you good advice.


----------



## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

Yes as above. Plus any deterioration can be seen whereas with stainless it can't always. It is an idea I have heard before but not often done because most people assume stainless is better.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The boat is on the Chesapeake and we are re-fitting for a year's cruise. We've had the boat ten years and love it. GaryHLucas and Chris gee, you have hit the nail on the head as far as my rigger is concerned. I've always used 316 stainless on sailboats, in areas that tend to stay wet I've noticed rust. I always thought it had to do with inferior or mislabled stainless but my rigger says it has to do with a chemical reaction to oxygen, or lack of it. Pevious to this boat we had a Catalina 27, purchased new, and owned it for 18 years. After 15 years the mast came down during an exciting sail. The cause was found to be a fatigude (sp) turbuckle, probably didn't dry out well because of those plastic boots. Stainless does look better but..... Interested in what others have to say.


----------



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

GaryHLucas said:


> Galvanized guy strand is all high tensile alloy steel, typically 50% stronger than the same size stainless guy strand.


Really? That's very interesting because Loos Co. shows the minimum breaking strength of 1X19 stainless and 1X19 galvanized are identical at 8200 Lbs for 1/4" dia... 316 stainless is much more corrosion resistant but about 10% weaker than 302/304 which is comparable to galvy. I still can't for the life of me figure out where you pulled the


> typically 50% stronger than the same size stainless guy strand


 from???

Loos Co. Type 304 1/4" 1X19 8200 Lbs. (Link)

Loos Co. Galvanized 1/4" 1X19 8200 Lbs. (Link)

Do you ever get the feeling some folks just type before actually doing 30 seconds worth of simple research??

P.S. I grew up sailing on a 50 foot Bud Macintosh designed wooden schooner with galvy rigging. It dripped so much rust they finally replaced it with stainless. The galvy looked better on that boat but what a mess on deck! Too bad they didn't make bronze 1X19 that would have looked great...


----------



## fullkeel7 (Apr 16, 2008)

Hmmm...wonder why production boats are not sporting the galvanized stuff on new boats...I've never seen any at the shows...anyone? If they thought they (manufacturers) could replace any stainless with galvanized, don't ya think they would? Must be a reason.


----------



## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Not claiming real knowledge of galvanise v stainless but gee I thought this was an argument that was put to bed twenty years ago at least.

From what I remember the big advantage of galvanised was that it was a lot easier to work when running the wire around an eye and using an old style swage. Ergo, if you wanted to be really self sufficient you could carry a roll of gal wire, eyes and swages and do all the work yourself. Gal gear was aso a lot cheaper. 

However, if memory also serves me right Gal is heavier than stainless so more weight aloft. Probably not a problem on a big old heavy ferro or steel cruiser but perhaps more of an issue with a lighter weight grp boat.

Gal does look somewhat rough around the edges as well.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

For the right boat galvanized wire might be the right choice. Not for any boat I have owned or plan to own. Zinc plated steel is incompatible with stainless and aluminum. So a steel boat with a wooden mast, concrete boat with steel chain plates & wood mast, that type of thing might work. Stick with what your boat was designed for.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

There's really nothing much to be said against it-other than it isn't shiny. Deterioration is more easily spotted and the cost savings are significant. It makes carrying extra standing rigging when cruising more economically feasible. The standing rigging on most cargo ships is galvanized and usually goes to the boneyard with the rest of the ship, unreplaced.


----------



## RXBOT (Sep 7, 2007)

*More maintenance*

As far as I know galvinized is slightly stronger, cheaper but you need to take it down and soak it every year in something like linseed oil. So the effort is not worth it for recreatioal boater.


----------



## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

Given the relative positions of galv and stainless on the metals nobility list, how would one connect the galv wire to the rest of the boat? I can't recall seeing Norseman or similar swage fittings made in galv format. 

So I can understand using galv wire on classic type vessels with thimbles and eyes and splices and crosby clamps, etc. onto galv turnbuckles or rope-block systems but how would it be done on a modern rig with ali spars and stainless tangs and chainplates? You'd probably generate enough electricity to run your nav lights  

I've always thought that galv wire looks great on fences and telegraph poles . . . .

Andre


----------



## SVCarolena (Oct 5, 2007)

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't galvanized a coating on the steel? That being the case, wherever a cable is cut wouldn't that expose the unprotected wire under the coating to the elements? Same for any swage fitting that causes the coating to be chipped? 

Also, thinking of the rough coating on, for instance, a galvanized chain-link fence, it is usually very rough. Would that shred or at least cause premature wear to the sails where they come in contact with the shrouds?

I'm no expert, but I've always gone by the mantra that if something is really that great, then everyone would be using it.


----------



## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

I blew it on this one. I usually am accurate on the strengths of materials, but I am clearly wrong in this case. The older I get, the better I used to be!


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Omatako said:


> Given the relative positions of galv and stainless on the metals nobility list, how would one connect the galv wire to the rest of the boat? I can't recall seeing Norseman or similar swage fittings made in galv format.
> 
> So I can understand using galv wire on classic type vessels with thimbles and eyes and splices and crosby clamps, etc. onto galv turnbuckles or rope-block systems but how would it be done on a modern rig with ali spars and stainless tangs and chainplates? You'd probably generate enough electricity to run your nav lights
> 
> ...


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

SVCarolena said:


> Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't galvanized a coating on the steel? That being the case, wherever a cable is cut wouldn't that expose the unprotected wire under the coating to the elements? Same for any swage fitting that causes the coating to be chipped?


Yes, the galvanization wouldn't cover any cut ends or areas the wire cable was abraded.


> Also, thinking of the rough coating on, for instance, a galvanized chain-link fence, it is usually very rough. Would that shred or at least cause premature wear to the sails where they come in contact with the shrouds?


Yes, galvanization is usually pretty rough, and probably chafe the sails more than stainless steel. This is probably why older boats with galvanized rigging used baggywrinkles extensively.



> I'm no expert, but I've always gone by the mantra that if something is really that great, then everyone would be using it.


If it was as good, as long-lived, and less expensive... why would any one be using stainless steel??? Since every one is using stainless steel... there is probably a very good reason for it.


----------



## Redbopeep (Oct 23, 2008)

*Neither is better*

Hi, all, we're owners of a classic 1930's boat that presently has stainless rigging but will be going back to galvanized this year. I'm a mechanical engineer who has worked in the field of structural reliability and I abhor the fatigue problems of stainless; I really couldn't stand the idea of it on my boat where it would be a constant worry to me. Further, my '30's era boat was built with galvanized and we're taking it back to what it had before the 70's update to stainless.

Yes, galvanized is "different" than stainless steel rigging. Neither stainless nor galvanized rigging can be truly said to be "superior" one to the other in all cases. Its highly dependent upon the needs, capabilities, and desires of the boat owner.

The main benefit of stainless is that it requires very little maintenance from the owner during its relatively short life as standing rigging. It doesn't rust so readily (on the outside!) therefore the owner doesn't have to "think" about sealing it or dealing with the corrosion getting onto his/her boat. It is by no means more reliable than galvanized rigging and no boat owner should comfort him/herself with that silly idea. As a matter of fact, the main drawback of stainless is its lack of reliability. It will be a surprise when it fails and given the same application and loading it will fail BEFORE the same size galvanized rigging which has been properly maintained.

Ah, there's the rub with galvanized. One must maintain it--that means whether or not it is served, one needs to cover it entirely in some lubricant or another every 6 months or so (unserved) to 1 year (served). It doesn't have to be taken down to be coated with the sealant/lube of choice but it has to happen--year after year. If it doesn't happen, well the rig will drop rust on the boat and the boat owner won't be happy (as a previous poster noted). That "rusty" rig will likely STILL outlast a stainless steel rig, but be unsightly during its life. If taken care of properly, it will last...50 years, 100 years...there are numerous examples of tall ships out there with rigging that old--its been repaired and maintained but still in use. The main benefit of galvanized is that it is more fatigue resistant than stainless and thus it does end up able to be used for many, many years.

Don't assume that just because "everyone" has gone to stainless that its better or higher quality than a galvanized rig. "Everyone" includes all those folks who have gone the way of "convenience" which is not necessarily "better."

These days, microwaved frozen muffins have replaced baking from scratch and "thowaway" cars, electronics, clothes, etc are the norm. How many folks do you know who "maintain" their shoes and have them re-soled for example? Only the ones who have invested in good quality to start with. The "throwaway" rigging of choice is Stainless steel for most folks. If you own a boat that you only plan to have for 10 years or so, why put a 50 year galvanized rig on it and take the care to maintain that rig? That's another reason most folks will choose stainless steel. Finally, the two types of rigs are very similar in cost installed. Properly installed galvanized rigs have high quality bronze eyes upon which the wire is spliced and the entire rig is served--all of this is costly and usually done by a professional...one might repair the rig oneself but most folks today don't have the skill to splice wire rope so that it actually looks good and is comparable in strength to the wire itself--thus they'll have a good rigger do the install and serving.

Someone here surmised that galvanized rigs use baggy wrinkle because the galvanizing catches the sails  most galvanized rigs on yachts are served so I don't know where that idea comes from...

So is a galvanized rig better? It depends. For me, it is. I'm willing to maintain it and I want a rig that "fits" my boat. We intend to own the boat for more than 10 years and I don't want to worry about the reliability of stainless.

For someone who doesn't want to maintain the rig--they should get stainless and replace it on a regular basis.

Fair winds to all


----------



## merc2dogs (Jun 5, 2004)

Very good write up Redbo.

No problems here with stainless rigging, But I have always had a serious respect for galvanized steel. Never did care for stainless in many other uses, realy hate stainless bolts and screws for one. 

Ken.


----------



## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

Redbopeep said:


> unserved) to 1 year (served).


What does served mean and what lubricants are used?


----------



## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Good post Redbo, thanks for the info. I always wondered about the rigging on the big fishing boats where money is no object when it comes to the best gear, and they ALL use galvanized. Had to be a good reason.

John


----------



## JHJensen (Sep 9, 2008)

*To worm, parcel, and serve rigging an old skill*



davidpm said:


> What does served mean and what lubricants are used?


Good question David!  Check out the following link worm parcel and serve and watch the video. Very cool.
*
"To worm, parcel, and serve rigging is an age old technique that was used to 
protect hemp and in later years, wire rigging from the elements of the harsh 
marine environment and to help protect against the sailors unrelenting enemy 
called chafe."*

I believe you are in Connecticut. Mystic has excellent examples of this on some of their vessels. I really admire this kind of work. I wonder what the price add on is if any on a rigging job when I look at the Labor Rates on this website.

There will be a test on this!

John


----------



## Redbopeep (Oct 23, 2008)

davidpm said:


> What does served mean and what lubricants are used?


I see someone else has already made a post to the Squarerigger site which has a lot of info about traditional rigging, worm, parcel and serve. There are some pics on that site of the owners' Tahiti Ketch which is traditionally rigged, too.

Regarding sealing/lubricant for the wire rope, different folks use different things. If the rig is served, frequently a mixture of Stockholm tar (a type of pine tar), boiled linseed oil, turpentine, and Japan Dryer is used. Sometimes on bare wire a mixture of wax and boiled linseed oil is used, sometimes on the fittings anhydrous lanolin is used. There are all sorts of concoctions of paints and oils and tars used depending on who's doing the work.


----------



## tager (Nov 21, 2008)

Omatako said:


> Given the relative positions of galv and stainless on the metals nobility list, how would one connect the galv wire to the rest of the boat? I can't recall seeing Norseman or similar swage fittings made in galv format.
> 
> So I can understand using galv wire on classic type vessels with thimbles and eyes and splices and crosby clamps, etc. onto galv turnbuckles or rope-block systems but how would it be done on a modern rig with ali spars and stainless tangs and chainplates? You'd probably generate enough electricity to run your nav lights
> 
> ...


http://www.galvanizeit.org/images/uploads/drGalv/HDG_stainless_steel.pdf
http://www.galvanizeit.org/images/uploads/drGalv/HDG_stainless_steel.pdf


----------

