# Contest 33



## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey All;

Well I was browsing eBay and bid on a Contest 33 and lost the auction. I wasn't trying to win but I thought that bidding on a boat would make me stop wanting to run out a buy one as I am trying to hold off buying till next spring. I only bid $5,800 on it anyway and similar boats on Yachtworld are going for $22,000 to $45,000.

I lost the auction of course, the boat went for $5,900... Well I thought I lost anyway, I just received an email offering a second chance on the boat as the winner backed out. Now i'm tempted to buy it... I would have upwards of $20k to put into it as it looks like it needs a little updating.

How the heck would I get it back to Toronto???

Contest 33

What do the experts think? Worth a shot sight unseen? As is where is? It doesn't have a cored hull so that is a plus but the motor will probably need a rebuild as it has been sitting for a few years. Second chance offer expires Friday afternoon.


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## jonneely (Jul 19, 2009)

5,800 is quite cheap, I just looked at everything 28-38 the west coast had to offer and didnt come by anything that nice for that price, but then again, the boat is not a CA. Check shipping, i bet you looking at at least 3k to ship it.

Jon


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## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

Sounds like a scam to me. Three days have passed and the alleged bad bidder has no negative feedback? 100% positive with 440 feedback replies? I think you're about to become the victim of a second chance scam. The boat looks nice, but if you plan to proceed, definitely use one of the brokerage companies to hold the $$$ until you receive or take possession of said item.


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## gbm4th (Jul 31, 2009)

Owner is in Holland, Florida titled and on the hard in Maryland? Seabreeze does have a point. That said, this is definitely cheap and they are great boats. I will be going down to Pasedena, Md this weekend to visit my Contest 31 and can look at the boat for you. Does White Rocks Marina have the title for the boat?

george


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## diogenes726 (Jun 13, 2009)

This boat was offered previusly on Ebay, and I bid to $6000. The reserve was not met at that time.
I did inquire of the owner about the extent of the crazing in the gel-coat, and condition of the engine, and did not feel confident with the answers.
That said, it does seem like a very nice boat for the $$. With my limited experience, I was too apprehensive- especially since it has been out of the water for 6+ years.
Good luck- if I had someone local that could look her over, and had the money to put her back in shape, I would go for it.
Let us know.


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

I emailed the seller to get some info:

*Copy of the 2008 Survey.
*Info about the title and transfer to me as I am Canadian.
*Where the title is.

Seeing as I have never bought a boat before I am suddenly overwhelmed at what I need to know in such a short window.

Robert


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

gbm4th said:


> Owner is in Holland, Florida titled and on the hard in Maryland? Seabreeze does have a point. That said, this is definitely cheap and they are great boats. I will be going down to Pasedena, Md this weekend to visit my Contest 31 and can look at the boat for you. Does White Rocks Marina have the title for the boat?
> 
> george


That would be outstanding! I have emailed the seller to find out where the boat can be seen as I was going to try and drive down and back on Saturday. If I can get the info would you mind taking a few minutes to inquire about the boat?

I would owe you at least a few drinks of you're choice. 

Robert


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

I was going to email the winning bidder to see if they actually backed out but unfortunately eBay doesn't allow that...


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

seabreeze_97 said:


> Sounds like a scam to me. Three days have passed and the alleged bad bidder has no negative feedback? 100% positive with 440 feedback replies? I think you're about to become the victim of a second chance scam. The boat looks nice, but if you plan to proceed, definitely use one of the brokerage companies to hold the $$$ until you receive or take possession of said item.


I am worried about being scammed as well. The second chance offer is through eBay though, If I log into my eBay account I have a buy it now button for the offer. I know it could just be BS but here is what the seller said :

Message from seller:	Hello, the winning buyer just backed out, a personal emergency he says. He is very sorry and so am I but this presents a second chance for you. Awaite your reaction, regards, Peter

I was always told that if it sounds to good to be true it probably is...


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## cruisingdream (Feb 7, 2007)

Getting boat to Toronto... enjoy a trip thru the erie canal.


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

OK so I received some information from the seller:

"The boat can be inspected at White Rocks marina, just tell me when you are there and I will contact Brandi,the overseer. I will need you email to send you the survey report. A number of other prospective buyers have reacted but I would prefer to deal with you as you have shown genuine interest. The title is with me, it is still in the name of the previous owner and the name of the buyer/buying price is left open. The process of registering it in Holland just took too much time. As it is still registered in Florida, I do not expect problems in transferring, although I am not very familiar with the intricacies of US rules in this. Should there be any I will try my utmost to help you out. "

Umm, if the boat is in someone else's name how can he sell it to me? As I have never bought a boat before I don't even know the process as to what happens. If I buy a loaf of bread I pay money and take home some bread. If i am buying a boat do I pay the money then wait for the title to be sent to me, then register it? Being Canadian how do I get the title transferred to Canada or do I even have to bother? Do I have to check if there is a lien against the boat? Is there such a thing as outstanding marina fee's?

Sorry for all the questions but everyone here always seems so helpful and I am slightly overwhelmed...

Robert


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

*keep asking questions*

From what the seller said, he purchased the boat but did not register it in his name (see comment about title). I certainly do not know how Dutch maritime law works but when I bought my boat in the US, the first step was to have its US documentation cancelled. I needed to do this before getting the boat federally registered in Canada - they wanted to see the document removing US registration and the bill of sale. If you wanted to get a provincial license instead (eg an ON number or that for another province) call those folks and see what documentation they require. It might be easier - you only need the title transfer and bill of sale.

When you bring the boat into Canada you have to pay GST and PST and also, because it was not built in a NAFTA country, 9.5% duty. Your shipping estimate might be a bit low, although if you could wait around until the trucker had a reverse trip it would help with the cost. Bringing it back by water next year would take about 2 weeks plus the time needed to get it back into service. This would give you a good chance to get to know the boat. The challenging part of the trip is the New Jersey coast where there are only a couple of decent inlets from the ocean. Otherwise it is an overnight.

I think it is worth pursuing a bit since the price is very good and Contests are certainly rugged, solid boats.


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

killarney_sailor said:


> From what the seller said, he purchased the boat but did not register it in his name (see comment about title). I certainly do not know how Dutch maritime law works but when I bought my boat in the US, the first step was to have its US documentation cancelled. I needed to do this before getting the boat federally registered in Canada - they wanted to see the document removing US registration and the bill of sale. If you wanted to get a provincial license instead (eg an ON number or that for another province) call those folks and see what documentation they require. It might be easier - you only need the title transfer and bill of sale.
> 
> When you bring the boat into Canada you have to pay GST and PST and also, because it was not built in a NAFTA country, 9.5% duty. Your shipping estimate might be a bit low, although if you could wait around until the trucker had a reverse trip it would help with the cost. Bringing it back by water next year would take about 2 weeks plus the time needed to get it back into service. This would give you a good chance to get to know the boat. The challenging part of the trip is the New Jersey coast where there are only a couple of decent inlets from the ocean. Otherwise it is an overnight.
> 
> I think it is worth pursuing a bit since the price is very good and Contests are certainly rugged, solid boats.


Hello;

I received an email from the seller and he said the same thing, I would need to register the boat in my own country on the basis of written proof of cancellation of the title in the US system. He said that he didn't cancel the title since selling it in the US would be easier with a US title as opposed to a title in Holland. The seller said that they can obtain written proof of cancellation. They also sent me an insurance survey done 10 months ago.

Can I post part of the survey here or is that against the rules?

Thanks;

Robert


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Just looked at the pics on ebay. It doesn't look like it has been abused. A bit weathered on deck, but the engine is clean, interior looks good, even the head is clean including the head hoses. Contest builds a good boat. I can imagine circumstances where the owner would want to sell even at a low price, especially when he is an ocean away. Looks like a good deal to me.
Brian


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

mitiempo said:


> Just looked at the pics on ebay. It doesn't look like it has been abused. A bit weathered on deck, but the engine is clean, interior looks good, even the head is clean including the head hoses. Contest builds a good boat. I can imagine circumstances where the owner would want to sell even at a low price, especially when he is an ocean away. Looks like a good deal to me.
> Brian


Hello mitiempo;

After reading through the survey it seems more and more like what I am looking for. It needs some : 
Electrical Work - Something I can do on my own.
Cosmetic Work - Something a little sweat equity will fix.
A small crack in the rudder - Cosmetic from what I have read.
Depth / Speed Monitors - Can install new myself.

But it is just that, no Radar, no Solar Panels, no Wind Generator, no Water maker, no Windless... I can outfit the boat as I see fit and as I need to depending on where I am going. I can scour for used equipment if needed as people keep updating to the latest and greatest.

But there are a couple things that worry me...

Hull Interior
Mostly good, except, some fiberglass bonds under galley separating, also,
bonds under forward end of dinette separating in addition to bonds on floor timbers separating.
I don't even know what this is...

Mast & Rigging
Correct installation of spreaders. Spreaders should bisect angle made with shrouds.
I am going to have to take down the rigging to fix this and then put it back up?

It has new sails and the seller has done a lot of work on the fuel system. The seller said this about the engine :

"As for the engine, Yanmar has a great reputation for simplicity and reliability. Because I did not launch the boat I never had the opportunity to test the engine. It needs to be in the water to be started. I have turned the engine over by hand to make sure that the pistons were not stuck and decompression was OK. Everything seems fine but I can't guarantee she wil start immediately after two years of not being used My idea was to open the valve cover first and crank it over to see if the valves are lifting, and to be careful not to flood the engine at first , because that might block the pistons and cause damage."

If the engine runs fine for a couple hours around the dock and the sails are all listed as new as well as the rigging then I don't see why I couldn't sail it back to Toronto with a little care and a new depth / speed monitor. Unless the Spreader issue will prevent me from sailing.

The seller has been pretty up front about everything so far. I wonder if I can get to Boston this weekend to see the boat in person...


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

krozet said:


> But there are a couple things that worry me...
> 
> Hull Interior
> Mostly good, except, some fiberglass bonds under galley separating, also,
> ...


This is of concern.. these issues likely refer to the fiberglass tabbing that was originally used to secure these parts to the hull. Such damage is usually the result of a fairly serious grounding (at some speed) Properly done, this is an expensive repair.. In the meantime the hull's stiffness and integrity may be seriously compromised. (worst case scenario...)

Perhaps there's a reason, besides desperation, for the seller's willingness to accept such an under-market bid...


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Spreaders are usually kept at the correct angle by the bracket that attaches them to the mast. I don't think that it is a real problem but definitely should be fixed. The fix can be done with the mast up in any case. As far as the separated bonds does the survey in any way suggest how they occured? If from a collision that sounds serious as Faster said, however I once owned a boat where the same thing occured and it was not from collision, just age and some moisture which didn't help. Rebonding with epoxy and biaxial tape can produce a fix that is better than new if not too serious to start with. As for the engine you can start it when hauled out by taking the hose off the salt water intake and putting it in a bucket of water.
Brian


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

Here is what the survey says, my apoligies for the format as I had to cut and paste from a PDF. I won't post the whole thing but the Hull Exterior and Deck / Interior sections. There is no sign of structural damage or an impact according to the survey...

I. HULL EXTERIOR

TYPE OF CONSTRUCTION: Fiberglass reinforced polyester resin, hand laid up in a female mold.

GENERAL IMPRESSION: Hull exterior appeared reasonably well maintained.

CONDITION OF FINISH: Paint finish in fair to good condition; some oxidation; some touch-ups (hand painted); antifouling paint appeared to be fairly fresh; has good adhesion.

INSPECTION OF HULLSIDES AND BOTTOM: Inspected with the vessel hauled out; no indication of structural damage, voids, or delaminations.

THRU-HULL FITTINGS: Good as observed.

BALLAST: Appeared well secured.

PROPELLER AND SHAFT: Two bladed propeller; stainless steel shaft; all in good condition; cutless bearing in good condition.

RUDDER AND RELATED UNDERWATER FITTINGS: Rudder fittings in good condition; rudder has split in forward lower edge of blade below lower attachment point, otherwise, good condition as observed.

BOARDING LADDER: None

GALVANIC PROTECTION: New zinc anode on propeller shaft.

REMARKS: Refer to “Repairs and Corrections.”

II. DECK AND HOUSE

TYPE OF CONSTRUCTION: Fiberglass reinforced polyester resin, hand laid up in a female mold with core material used in key areas for panel stiffness.

GENERAL IMPRESSION: Deck molding appeared neglected.

CONDITION OF FINISH: Paint and gelcoat on the vessel’s deck molding heavily crazed and abraded; finish on exterior teak trim deteriorated; finish on hardware fair.

STRUCTURAL CONDITION: No indication of structural damage.

HATCHES/COMPANIONWAY: Good condition.

RAILS/LIFELINES: Bow pulpit, stern pulpit, and stanchions installed; lifelines not installed at time of inspection; bow pulpit lightly bent.

DECK FITTINGS AND HARDWARE: Good condition; well installed; at time of inspection, handholds were not installed.

REMARKS: No repairs and corrections deemed necessary

III. HULL INTERIOR

GENERAL IMPRESSION: Appeared reasonably well maintained.

CONDITION OF FINISH: Finish on woodwork in general very good.

STRUCTURAL CONDITION: Mostly good, except, some fiberglass bonds under galley separating, also, bonds under forward end of dinette separating in addition to bonds on floor timbers separating.

PORTS: Good condition.

HANDHOLDS: Some installed.

INTERIOR STEPS: Secured

BILGE: A little dirty.

KEEL BOLTS: Mostly covered with internal cement ballast; visible on forward end of the vessel; good condition.

UNSECURED FURNITURE/EQUIPMENT: None observed.

REMARKS: Refer to “Repairs and Corrections.”

REPAIRS AND CORRECTIONS

I. HULL EXTERIOR
A. Repair crack in leading edge of rudder blade.

III. HULL INTERIOR
A.Repair damaged fiberglass bonds under galley, forward end of dinette, and on floor timbers.

There is more to the survey but these sections should have shown any structural damage found on the boat. An impact of a serious nature should have shown up as more than just fiberglass bonds separating?


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

cruisingdream said:


> Getting boat to Toronto... enjoy a trip thru the erie canal.


I checked into this option, I cant make it...  With the mast up the boat is 44' from deck to top, taller from the waterline. The New York State Canal website lists quite a few fixed bridges of 14' The depth is good and it would definitaly be a nice trip. Would de-masting the boat be an option if the engine is strong? It would be a pain in the butt to get it reset to sail across lake Ontario just to haul her out for the season. Would motor sailing across the lake be a bad idea if the weather is clear?


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

krozet said:


> There is more to the survey but these sections should have shown any structural damage found on the boat. An impact of a serious nature should have shown up as more than just fiberglass bonds separating?


I did say that that would have been a worst case scenario... but it's worth keeping in mind.. It's not that unusual, after such a grounding, that the external "damage" is cosmetically repaired (and therefore difficult to spot after the fact) while the expensive, difficult part of the job goes undone.

The other factor for you, is that at that price even if you end up getting a first class repair done (that could run as much as $10K I'm guessing - again - worst case) you're still into a now-decent boat at well under market. So then the question is do you want that inconvenience and delay in the use of her?


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## gbm4th (Jul 31, 2009)

Robert, I will visit White Rocks Marina this weekend and look at the boat, not sure which day though. It's only a 20 minutes from where my boat is; but that is 2.5 hours from where I live. Anything specific you want me to look for; I will bring my digital camera and take pictures for you.

As long as the buyer knows your interested, he should be able to extend the 2nd chance offer for you.

PS Check out YachtWorld on the web. Some sellers will accept 20-30% of listed price and you might find something closer to home. 

george


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## fullkeel7 (Apr 16, 2008)

I was going to bid on that boat myself but the draft is just a little to much for my intended cruising area. Well, too, it's a little more 'shout' of a boat than I really need. 

It may be that those separations in the survey can wait until you get the boat home...you'll have to make that determination when you inspect the boat. I would have a surveyor look at it for some verification anyway.

The rudder crack would concern me. If there's a crack, there is access for water intrusion that may weaken the rudder stock or attached structural webbing. Some 'test' pilot holes would verify if the rudder is saturated. Here's where that surveyor would come in handy as well. A good survey would also give you a 'heads up' on items you may want to fix prior to departure and those items that could wait 'til later. 

That boat sure has a sweet sheer...good luck on the decision, sounds like a deal...


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

gbm4th said:


> Robert, I will visit White Rocks Marina this weekend and look at the boat, not sure which day though. It's only a 20 minutes from where my boat is; but that is 2.5 hours from where I live. Anything specific you want me to look for; I will bring my digital camera and take pictures for you.
> 
> As long as the buyer knows your interested, he should be able to extend the 2nd chance offer for you.
> 
> ...


That is incredibly generous of you, thank you for taking some time to take a look at the boat for me. As to what too look for, this is my first boat... If you wouldn't mind taking a look at the rudder, the survey says there is a lot of play in it but the seller says it has been fixed. Plus the crack, the seller says that it is cosmetic only and not an issue right now. The only other thing is just how much of an issue the separations are if you can get below deck. Pictures? A couple below deck and a couple of the whole boat would be very much appreciated.

I have been doing some digging on Yachtworld. Truth is that I never expected to be trying to decide on buying a boat this year, I planned on buying next year. This boat just seemed to all of a sudden be available at a great price. Local boats here seem to hold quite a bit of value and people are hard pressed to let them go below asking price. I don't blame them, with the short cruising season on the lakes and fresh water boats up here are usually in very good condition.

Thanks again;

Robert


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

fullkeel7 said:


> I was going to bid on that boat myself but the draft is just a little to much for my intended cruising area. Well, too, it's a little more 'shout' of a boat than I really need.
> 
> It may be that those separations in the survey can wait until you get the boat home...you'll have to make that determination when you inspect the boat. I would have a surveyor look at it for some verification anyway.
> 
> ...


Here is where I am getting iffy, I know the value of a survey when looking for potential problems. My issue is that I am looking at paying $1,000 for a survey on a $5,600 boat. If I was buying a $40,000 boat I would see the value. As it is now it just seems excessive. The point of the survey is to find things that are wrong and negotiate with the seller to find a happy medium. Don't get me wrong, I would fully intend to have someone go over the boat to help find the issues and get them fixed but that can wait till spring.

If I buy the boat I will have two options, one is to leave it where it is and pay storage fees till spring. The second option will be to sail it back to Canada and immediately have it hauled and stored for the winter.

I just called a friend, one of her co-workers husband is a marine surveyor. It will cost $450 to have it surveyed in Canada.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

*Erie Canal is not a big problem*



krozet said:


> I checked into this option, I cant make it...  With the mast up the boat is 44' from deck to top, taller from the waterline. The New York State Canal website lists quite a few fixed bridges of 14' The depth is good and it would definitaly be a nice trip. Would de-masting the boat be an option if the engine is strong? It would be a pain in the butt to get it reset to sail across lake Ontario just to haul her out for the season. Would motor sailing across the lake be a bad idea if the weather is clear?


It is routine for sailboats to use the Erie Canal. Coming northbound you can keep your mast up until almost Albany, NY. There are marinas that will take your mast down for you for ~$150 and one boat club, Castleton where you can do yourself for about $50. You put your mast on wooden supports for the journey.

The canal itself is 30 locks and a variety of river and canal sections with one lake that is close to 30 miles long (and not to be taken lightly -- it can get quite choppy). You probably want to have three people on board for the canal - could do it with two who really know their stuff, but it will be new to you.

To get to Lake Ontario you take a side canal from the Erie to Oswego, NY where you can get your mast raised. I would very seriously suggest you not try to cross Lake Ontario with your mast on deck, in particular in the latish fall. It is a hassle to put it up and then take it down again when you get across the lake but it is much safer to have it up, plus you will likely get a good sail.

If you have any questions about the trip up let me know, I have done the Hudson/Erie several times.


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

killarney_sailor said:


> It is routine for sailboats to use the Erie Canal. Coming northbound you can keep your mast up until almost Albany, NY. There are marinas that will take your mast down for you for ~$150 and one boat club, Castleton where you can do yourself for about $50. You put your mast on wooden supports for the journey.
> 
> The canal itself is 30 locks and a variety of river and canal sections with one lake that is close to 30 miles long (and not to be taken lightly -- it can get quite choppy). You probably want to have three people on board for the canal - could do it with two who really know their stuff, but it will be new to you.
> 
> ...


Well I guess that will eliminate the canal as an option, i'd be lucky if I can find one person that would be able to take the time off work with short notice... Two would be a stretch and neither would know their stuff. I worked for a couple summers at a lock on the Rideau Canal in my teen age years so I know my way around but that was almost entirely house boats and power boats.


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## BreakingWind2 (Jan 3, 2008)

Here is where I am getting iffy, I know the value of a survey when looking for potential problems. My issue is that I am looking at paying $1,000 for a survey on a $5,600 boat. If I was buying a $40,000 boat I would see the value. As it is now it just seems excessive. The point of the survey is to find things that are wrong and negotiate with the seller to find a happy medium. Don't get me wrong, I would fully intend to have someone go over the boat to help find the issues and get them fixed but that can wait till spring.

If understand what you are saying but you may find when you go to put insurance on the boat that they will require a recent survey.
My two cents

Dave


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

BreakingWind2 said:


> If understand what you are saying but you may find when you go to put insurance on the boat that they will require a recent survey.
> My two cents
> 
> Dave


Hello Dave;

The seller sent me an Insurance Survey that was done 10 months ago. The conclusion of the survey was that :

"DOUBLE PINOCHLE" was seen to be in only fair cosmetic condition mostly due to the condition of the vessel's deck molding. The structural condition was in general good except for some separated fiberglass bonds in the vessel's interior. After repairs and corrections have been attended to, "DOUBLE PINOCHLE" should be a suitable insurance risk for offshore use provided normal maintenance is performed and normal safety precautions are taken.

I guess if I do buy the boat I will most likely have to leave it where it is and attend to repairs next spring before bringing her back to Ontario to refit her for offshore cruising.

Robert


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## BreakingWind2 (Jan 3, 2008)

Robert,
Funny that this should come up. I was just admiring the boat across the marina from me and when I asked him what kind of boat it was...a Contest 33. Looks like a good sturdy boat, lots of freeboard. I would think that your insurance company would honour a survey done just 10 months ago.

Where are you looking to dock it in Ontario? I'm down in Newcastle.


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

Looks like if I buy the boat I will have to leave it where it is for the winter, I have asked the seller for info on who to contact at the marina about storage fee's from now till April, anyone know what the average storage fee's are for a 33' boat in the Boston area?

Anyone give me the name of a good diesel engine person I could contact to check the engine and winterize it? What is the process involved in winterizing a sail boat? I will have to take 4 days off work to do it, drive down from Canada and winterize the boat.

I am jumping the gun a bit I suppose as no deal has been finalized yet but I am trying to figure out the added costs and see if it is worth it or just go with my original plan of waiting till spring to look for a boat. This might be a great opportunity as the price is right and the boat is what I am looking for but if it is going to cost me another $3,000 for storage, winterize, travel back and forth... Maybe it would be better to wait.


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

BreakingWind2 said:


> Robert,
> Funny that this should come up. I was just admiring the boat across the marina from me and when I asked him what kind of boat it was...a Contest 33. Looks like a good sturdy boat, lots of freeboard. I would think that your insurance company would honour a survey done just 10 months ago.
> 
> Where are you looking to dock it in Ontario? I'm down in Newcastle.


I haven't even got that far yet.  I live in Aurora so I could check Midland or anywhere along the Georgian Bay. I have friends in St. Thomas so maybe Port Stanley or along the Canadian side of Lake Erie. I have family in Brockville so I can check the Lake Ontario / St. Lawrence area. Heck I could look into anything from Port Credit to Hamilton if I want to keep it near Toronto. This is such a compressed time frame that I haven't even thought of were to keep the boat. I just got promoted at work so as soon as I find out where i am going next I can look for a marina. Gotta see if I can get moved to Belleville, Cobourg, Kingston, Whitby... That would make things easier. Whitby would be good as I would have great access to repair facilities, diesel mechanics, fiberglass workers...


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

krozet said:


> The point of the survey is to find things that are wrong and negotiate with the seller to find a happy medium.


That's one of the points...the other is to inform yourself of the true condition of the boat and just what you are getting into. You want your own surveyor for this! The cost of the boat is less important than just how much it can cost you. You'll want the survey anyway--pre-sale is when to do it.


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## gbm4th (Jul 31, 2009)

Robert, I called the marina and left a message today to let them know I was coming down Sunday morning to look at the boat.

A nice website with info and maps: Maryland Marinas - MD Marinas, United States

A number for a diesel mechanic in Pasedena I got from a broker:
410-255-9488

A good surveyor would be Jack Horner at:
Maryland, Naval Architects, Marine Surveyors and Engineers, servicing recreational boats, yachts and small commercial vessels, Marine Survey and Design Co.

but you should be able to use the last survey that was done. If the boat has been on the hard for several years, it should already be winterized.

Good luck,
george

White Rocks Marina 
Contact Information
Phone	(410) 255-3800
E - Mail	Click to E-Mail
Reservation	Make Reservation Request
Latitude 39° 9' 5"
Longitude -76° 29' 35"
Format	DMS DD

Address 
1402 Colony Rd, Pasadena, MD 21122-3271 United States

More marinas in Pasadena, MD


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

arf145 said:


> That's one of the points...the other is to inform yourself of the true condition of the boat and just what you are getting into. You want your own surveyor for this! The cost of the boat is less important than just how much it can cost you. You'll want the survey anyway--pre-sale is when to do it.


Hello;

Thank you for the advice, the only concern I have is that with the insurance survey stating that structurally the only issue is the separated fiberglass in the interior I have a fair amount of confidence that the boat is in good shape. There is no cored areas as the boat is solid fiberglass and the survey says that there are no weak spots on the boat. The mast, rigging and sails are new as stated by the seller and the survey states that they are all in good condition with the only issue being the spreaders do not bisect angle made with shrouds. The fuel tank is listed as new and well installed with new fuel lines. The plumbing and thru hulls are listed as good, with the tank well insulated and the head listed as well installed. For $5,600 having a solid and structurally sound boat is a deal.

I know that the electrical will need some work but there are new batteries. I can do the wiring myself as I have experience with this. The interior is listed as being in good shape but I can update the interior as I need to. The engine might be a loss but I have found new and re-built marine diesels (27hp - 33hp) for anywhere between $3,500 to $4,400 depending on how much horsepower I want. For a 12,000 lb boat a 24hp would do, you can't go faster than physics allows on a displacement hull.

$5,600 for the boat and possibly $4,400 for the engine and $10,000 for refit puts me at $20,000. I am not sure that I could find another 33' sailboat with a new 30hp engine, new mast and rigging, new sails, new head, new batteries, new wiring, new winches, new fuel tank... all for $20,000. The insurance survey puts my mind at ease on the hull and the boat being sea worthy and I have no doubt that there will be things to spend money on once I buy it. I am still a little concerned that I might get scammed but that's probably because I have never bought a boat before nor have I purchased something for such a price from someone on the other side of the world.

Thank you for the feedback, I do appreciate it.

Robert


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## gbm4th (Jul 31, 2009)

I left a message with White Rocks Marina Saturday morning to let them know I would be down Sunday morning. I drove down Sunday morning and did not find anybody; but I did find the boat. I could not climb up on the boat but did take pics. The rudder seemed solid and without any play. The pictures file size is to large for Sailnet. Send me your e-mail and I will forward them. It does look like a nice boat.

george


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

gbm4th said:


> I left a message with White Rocks Marina Saturday morning to let them know I would be down Sunday morning. I drove down Sunday morning and did not find anybody; but I did find the boat. I could not climb up on the boat but did take pics. The rudder seemed solid and without any play. The pictures file size is to large for Sailnet. Send me your e-mail and I will forward them. It does look like a nice boat.
> 
> george


Email sent.

So just a general question for everyone;

If I decide to buy this boat what is the next step... I got a hold of the seller and setup info for a deposit and final payment. They just send me the title and I register it in Canada, call the marina and let them know it's my boat and I will be paying the storage fee's from October till April next year?


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

gbm4th - Thanks so much for taking the time to stop by the marina. Hope you don't mind me posting a few of the pictures you sent me.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

At $5600 you'll probably do OK here. Accept the fact that it WILL take more money to get her up to snuff. At that buy-in price you've got lots of room.

If it were me I'd plan to absorb the cost of trucking the boat - you'll get it home in a hurry (it's already out of the water, saving some costs perhaps) and have the rest of the winter to start on the jobs that are critical right away. You'll be a season closer to sailing, probably.

From the last pic, it appears there is definitely water in the rudder, you can see it leeching out well away from the gudgeon fitting. This will be something you'll want to address at some point.

btw the "spreader angle" issue is not a major one unless a spreader is so low as to be on the point of releasing the shroud. In any event if you truck the boat the rig will be off and you can easily fix it then.

At the border, you'll simply inform them of your purchase, and you'll be directed how and when to pay PST, GST and a 9.5% duty since this boat was built in Holland. Factor all that into your calculations as well. Also, since this is WELL below market value, be sure to have iron-clad documentation that that is indeed what you paid. They will check for average selling prices for that model/year and will likely question your numbers.


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

Hello Faster;

I have factored in the cost of the import tax... gotta love taxes  
The issue I have with trucking it back to Canada is that for the cost I could almost buy a new diesel. I will have to pay about the same storage fees whether it is here or not. The plan was to take 4 days off in October once the paperwork is finalized to go down to the marina, update all needed info and have a diesel mechanic look at the engine. Since the engine has not been run in some time I am fully open to the need of installing a new engine at some point before the launch next April. If it needs a new engine I will take the time between my visits in October and November to find a suitable engine. I would take 3 days at the beginning of November to go down and remove the old engine, the new engine could be installed then or in March of next year.

I would be taking the time in October to winterize the boat as most of the other repairs have been done already. I could use the time to also remove part of the engine if the decision is to put a new engine in. I could also have someone who knows their way around fiberglass check the tab separating in the galley. This would also be my opportunity to check the basic wiring and fix any outstanding basic issues, anything that I need to get it back to Canada like lights.

I would prefer to put the new engine in while it is in Baltimore as everything I have found suggests that I will be saving a lot of money buying and installing it in the US as opposed to Canada, especially with the continuing march to parody of the dollar.

I am looking at spending about $320 on each trip to the boat for fuel, lodging and food for the two trips in October and November. My airfare would be free (Aeroplan points) but a taxi from the airport to the marina I am budgeting $80. $50 for diesel, $35 for an Erie Canal pass and $300 for food / provisioning for the 12 day trip. This would cost me about $1,100 and be a nice first sail with the new boat. I can't imagine the shipping cost would be below $3,500 to $4,000.

The planned route would see me leave Baltimore and head for the C&D canal, stopping in Delaware City the first night. Then sailing down the Delaware to Cape May for the second night. This would be a nice two day shakedown with lots of ports if I run into a problem. From that point I have 16 days to get the boat up the coast to the Hudson, up the Erie to Lake Ontario and across Lake Ontario to Pickering. I would have two people to pick up in Albany that will help me navigate the Erie and Lake Ontario.

Robert


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

Oh and I could do the work on the spreaders once the mast is de stepped in Albany before the Erie Canal. I would have a few days to do the work before the mast is stepped on the other side of the canal.


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

Faster said:


> From the last pic, it appears there is definitely water in the rudder, you can see it leeching out well away from the gudgeon fitting. This will be something you'll want to address at some point.


 I thought that was bird poop.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Your suggextion of 3500 to 4000 for trucking is nowhere close to the cost of a new diesel. Maybe 1/3 to 1/2 if you include installation. And depending on engine, maybe new prop as well.
Brian


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I'd agree with Brian in Victoria that the costs of repowering will likely be much higher - if a new shaft/prop is required you could easily get to $10K installed depending on which engine you choose.. and changing engine models adds even more for modified beds etc.

But since you're ostensibly getting a $35-40K boat for very little to start - these projects are feasible - keeping in mind that there could still be serious suprises and don't be shocked if -when all's said and done- you've gotten into it for fair market value after all.

Eyes wide open.... good luck with all the logisitics.


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

mitiempo said:


> Your suggextion of 3500 to 4000 for trucking is nowhere close to the cost of a new diesel. Maybe 1/3 to 1/2 if you include installation. And depending on engine, maybe new prop as well.
> Brian


I have been looking into the cost of a Diesel, started a thread about it in the diesel forum. I have found some good deals so far and am looking at about $4,800 for a new engine (westerbeke) and $3,900 (Yanmar) for a re manufactured (only original part is the block). This is of course without installation but I can do some of the work myself. Unless installation is in the ballpark of $2,200 I don't see how it is going to cost me $7,000 to $12,000 (1/3 to 1/2 of the shipping cost).

As much as I would like to have the boat here now, I just don't think it would be money well spent. Believe me, I have been thinking and re thinking shipping the boat...


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

Faster said:


> I'd agree with Brian in Victoria that the costs of repowering will likely be much higher - if a new shaft/prop is required you could easily get to $10K installed depending on which engine you choose.. and changing engine models adds even more for modified beds etc.
> 
> But since you're ostensibly getting a $35-40K boat for very little to start - these projects are feasible - keeping in mind that there could still be serious suprises and don't be shocked if -when all's said and done- you've gotten into it for fair market value after all.
> 
> Eyes wide open.... good luck with all the logisitics.


Yes, I know.  All done I could be looking at a big investment. But you are right, if I do end up around the $35K mark I will still have a nice boat with almost entirely new systems. Should last me a very long time and take me where I want to go with little worry as long as I keep up the maintenance. And not running into anything. 

Eyes wide open.


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

Hello;

Well I bought this boat and have finally been able to finalize all the paperwork and see the boat. The seller was fantastic sending me more information than I could wish for on a boat of this age. I received:

The Title, obviously...
Correspondence between the seller & the state of Florida explaining what had to be done for him to cancel the title in Florida. This will help me finalizing the title transfer and registering the boat in Canada
Information package from Conyplex on boat upkeep and specifications.
A package the seller got from Conyplex on the boat.
Receipt for new standing rigging. 1/4" 1x19 316 grade wire, turnbuckles, swage eyes, and labor to step and tension. ($2,000 from the riggers + $180 from the marina to raise the mast)
2 full hand drawn wiring diagrams including a 'to do' list.
Receipt for new zinc's from 2007. The boat was out of the water at the time and is still out of the water.
New mainsail dimension information, from new main sail.
Receipt for new Plexiglas windows installed into boat hatches from 2007. ($250)
Receipt for new Teak Rails from 2007. ($140)
Receipt for engine gaskets and impeller from 2007. ($50)
$400 in receipts from last year for misc marine parts and supplies.

When I got onto the boat this past weekend I found the following waiting for me.

New tool set including full ratchet, wrench and screw driver sets. Pipe wrench, flash light, lighter...
New electrical kit including marine wiring, hundreds of connectors, shrink tubing, tape...
Wood working kit including saw's, sand paper...
two spools of brand new haylards, one is labeled at 55 feet and the other is labeled as 70 feet.
Plumbing supplies, cleaning supplies...

Hardware wise I found new batteries (these were a pain in the butt to find, they ended up being under the cockpit sole...)

















AC Battery Charger & New Battery Selector

















Pressurized water system

















New Fuel Tank









Newer Electrical Panel









Newer Marine Head









Newer Yanmar 2GM20F (the boat originally came with a volvo diesel). I can't find any info when the engine was installed yet but I am still looking.









































It also has new standing rigging, new haylards, new bilge pump, the winches are in great shape, the cutlass bearing is in great shape, newer mainsail, newer jib...

Of course don't get me wrong, it needs considerable work but I am looking forward to the work that I have to do. I will of course be posting countless questions on here looking for feedback, suggestions and ideas as I plan on the next steps and setup an action plan.

But I am the proud owner of a Conyplex Contest 33, Hull # 24









Robert


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

One of the first things you want to do is chuck that battery charger..It could burn your boat down to the waterline.


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

Is it better to start individual threads for individual questions/problems or just post them all in here? I have been starting threads for each separate issue to better keep track of them but I don't want to break any Sailnet etiquette or anything.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

No I think each topic should have its own thread...You might not get someones knowledge otherwise....You might wear us down with 600 threads though..

You could also take the lead from another member in the midst of a complete rebuild and post refit updates by date and post specific questions there as you go..That will help the forums search engine canonize all your threads for easy finding later.

Search "OH JOY refit"


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## xsboats (Oct 2, 2007)

Congrats on your purchase. I sail on my friend's Contest 33 here in St. Augustine. Great boats. I would seriously consider trucking the boat home.It doesn't take long to exceed the shipping cost in travel expenses, outside contractors, etc ... to refit a boat from afar. Not to mention the cost of repairs in transit to things that were overlooked due to the rush to get underway . Your best assets are usually close to home when finding parts and labor. Not to mention being able to start and stop work on your own schedule instead of being rushed to meet a deadline dictated by how much time you can be away from home


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## gbm4th (Jul 31, 2009)

Congratulations Robert. It looks like you got a nice surprise when you got on your boat. Annapolis is a great place to get work on your boat done and the Sailnet community should be able to guide you to good craftsmen. I will soon be ending my first abbreviated season but look forward to getting together with you next time your down to visit your boat.

Good luck,
george


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

xsboats said:


> Congrats on your purchase. I sail on my friend's Contest 33 here in St. Augustine. Great boats. I would seriously consider trucking the boat home.It doesn't take long to exceed the shipping cost in travel expenses, outside contractors, etc ... to refit a boat from afar. Not to mention the cost of repairs in transit to things that were overlooked due to the rush to get underway . Your best assets are usually close to home when finding parts and labor. Not to mention being able to start and stop work on your own schedule instead of being rushed to meet a deadline dictated by how much time you can be away from home


This is really the torture that robs me of sleep at night... to truck it back or not... Logistically it will cost less for me to visit the boat and sail it back but that will mean I have to, well... Sail it back... My first sail on my boat will be up the New Jersey coast... I am not worried about the Chesapeake Bay, the C&D Canal, Delaware Bay, the Hudson River or the Erie Canal. In fact I am looking forward to the Erie Canal but day three from Cape May to Mystic Island and day four from Mystic Island to Sandy Hook honestly scare me. Maybe I should be more concerned about crossing Lake Ontario or the traffic of the Hudson basin but neither of these worry me as much as the open ocean. I know I will be barely away from land but the starboard side of the boat leads to Europe. 

If I were to consider trucking it back where would I start looking?

Thanks;

Robert


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

gbm4th said:


> Congratulations Robert. It looks like you got a nice surprise when you got on your boat. Annapolis is a great place to get work on your boat done and the Sailnet community should be able to guide you to good craftsmen. I will soon be ending my first abbreviated season but look forward to getting together with you next time your down to visit your boat.
> 
> Good luck,
> george


Hey!!

You bet, I still owe you a drink for the pictures.  To be honest I was very surprised when I got on the boat. When I did my ASA courses the first thing the captain made me do was a scavenger hunt and told me to tear the boat apart. When I got onto my boat it was the first thing I did and it was like finding treasure. Every cabinet I opened I found something else.  The best surprise was the spools of brand new rope though. I tracked the number stamped on the spools back to : New England Ropes - ARC - Abrasion Resistant CVR (V12 Core).

Funny part was that I had not brought a ladder, I was standing there trying to figure out how the hell to get on the boat. Luckly the marina had a ladder but the problem was it was about a foot too short for me to get onto the boat. I had to stand on the top rung and jump onto the boat. Of course I paid no attention to how I was going to get off the boat... Thank god no one had a video camera, that would have been an embarrassing youtube video!

Robert


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Boats are routinely transported by truck.. it's really not a big deal. It is some expense, of course, but trade that off against better access, earlier refit and an earlier season at home.... given how little you've spent so far trucking may well be still within the budget.


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

Faster said:


> Boats are routinely transported by truck.. it's really not a big deal. It is some expense, of course, but trade that off against better access, earlier refit and an earlier season at home.... given how little you've spent so far trucking may well be still within the budget.


I suppose, it's just over 550 miles from White Rocks to Frenchman's Bay... at $4.50 a mile that is under $2,500. Add on $600 - $1,000 to load the boat onto the trailer and take it off...


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

krozet said:


> I suppose, it's just over 550 miles from White Rocks to Frenchman's Bay... at $4.50 a mile that is under $2,500. Add on $600 - $1,000 to load the boat onto the trailer and take it off...


Sounds about right...... though $4.50/mile might be a high estimate unless fuel prices have bumped the rates recently.


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## krozet (Nov 29, 2008)

Faster said:


> Sounds about right...... though $4.50/mile might be a high estimate unless fuel prices have bumped the rates recently.


If the rates are cheaper that just means I save a little coin... With the strong Canadian dollar I am already saving as it is.


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