# Best Cruising Cat under 200K$ ?



## thevdeub (Apr 17, 2010)

*(Moved to another Channel) Best Cruising Cat under 200K$ ?*

That's a long shot, but I would like to evaluate to get a cat for long term cruising. I am sure that's have been answered a lot in the forum, but maybe not with those requirements:

- Stable -Cannot flip except if you re stupid
- Comfortable, Roomy for 2 but singlehandable - 35-45ft range ?
- Safe, Watertight bulkheads
- Found at less than 200K$ on the used market in good shape, less than 30k$ upgrades to be ready to go
- Hopefully less than 10 years old
- Blue Water Cruiser, for a all around the world "Milk" / Tropical run.
- Good Tackling ground and rigging for offshore passages
- Owner version, 2 cabins best - No charter boat.

What would be the best 5 picks in your opinion ?

After diggin on the internet I found those :

Gemini 105
Lagoon 380
Seawind 1000 XL
Privilege 48
Leopard 40
Seawind 1160

But I am not sure about the seaworthiness.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Sailed a Leopard 3900 in the BVIs, I'm really not a fan of the 3point rig (bluewater? um NO!)... boat was sweet inside though.

Some history, we noted that our charter boat had obviously been dismasted at some point, as the mast was sleeved about 10 feet up. The rig might have been shortened in this process I dunno. We debated asking the charter company to tighten the rig before we went out, but alas we did not. We didn't have any issues with the rig, however, I could see it being a problem in heavier air.

Watch the shrouds in this video...


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## thevdeub (Apr 17, 2010)

I read somewhere that there was a design that would prevent the cat to tip by breaking the shrouds before. Maybe a seawind 1160. True ? False ?


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

SHNOOL said:


> I'm really not a fan of the 3point rig (bluewater? um NO!)


This is how almost all catamarans are rigged because backstays prevent large mainsails, and the shroud attachment angles can be made so large that a backstay isn't necessary.

These so rigged catamarans are sailing bluewater all the time without issues. They even race around the Southern Ocean without dismasting.

Improperly tuned rigs are not the fault of the rig design, and a properly tuned catamaran rig will have the leeward shrouds slightly soft (I can't view the video for bandwidth reasons, so don't know if the shrouds were noodles or just slightly soft).

Mark


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

thevdeub said:


> I read somewhere that there was a design that would prevent the cat to tip by breaking the shrouds before. Maybe a seawind 1160. True ? False ?


False for both.

Mark


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## jdazey (Jan 16, 2016)

SHNOOL said:


> Sailed a Leopard 3900 in the BVIs, I'm really not a fan of the 3point rig (bluewater? um NO!)... boat was sweet inside though.
> 
> Some history, we noted that our charter boat had obviously been dismasted at some point, as the mast was sleeved about 10 feet up. The rig might have been shortened in this process I dunno. We debated asking the charter company to tighten the rig before we went out, but alas we did not. We didn't have any issues with the rig, however, I could see it being a problem in heavier air.
> 
> ...


You may be right about the mast being shortened. There does not appear to be much adjustment left on the turnbuckle.

And to the OP, Colemj is right about cat rigs. Most are mainsail focused with large roaches supported by full battens. Our boat has the three point setup with running backstays.

IMO seaworthiness is as much about the skipper and the condition of the boat as the design. I suspect you can find examples of significant passages made in all of the boats on your list.

Cheers,
Joe


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Sleeved masts are not unusual, and are not necessarily an indication of prior dismasting. Pretty unlikely that a broken mast would be put back together that way in any case.

Some rig builders sleeve their masts in a way you can't see (welded, faired and painted), others leave the rivets exposed and in plain sight. Most large Hunters have visible sleeved/spliced sections. Our mast is sleeved (original) just near the spreaders.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Nobody addressed what I thought would be the bigger deal the 3 point rig!
So... NO backstay, no lowers (to speak of), just a headstay and 2 shrouds? Granted the shrouds are as big around as my thumb, and seriously far outboard. I'm not a rigger, but it "felt weak."


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

SHNOOL said:


> Nobody addressed what I thought would be the bigger deal the 3 point rig!
> So... NO backstay, no lowers (to speak of), just a headstay and 2 shrouds? Granted the shrouds are as big around as my thumb, and seriously far outboard. I'm not a rigger, but it "felt weak."


Two of us did address that point. There is no issue with it in any way. It is the most common rig configuration of catamarans - including racing cats and expedition cats that go RTW in the Southern Ocean and other high-stress areas.

I suspect your concern is born more from an unfamiliarity with this rig type than from a studied evaluation.

BTW, there are actually boats with NO standing rigging supporting the mast at all!!! :eek

Mark


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

A mast sleeved 10' up from the base does sound unusual. It is very common for masts to be manufactured and shipped in two parts which are connected with sleeves, and it is somewhat common to cut a mast down a bit for the US East Coast bridges, but first usually isn't done with a sleeve that far down the mast, and the second is usually just a cut off of the mast base without a need for a sleeve.

Mark


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

colemj said:


> BTW, there are actually boats with NO standing rigging supporting the mast at all!!! :eek


Seriously you are going to cite the "Freedom Rig," not exactly a glowing endorsement.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

SHNOOL said:


> Seriously you are going to cite the "Freedom Rig," not exactly a glowing endorsement.


The Freedom rig was well-done and they have/are sailing everywhere. Nonsuch have also had a good showing using the same type of rig. What exactly do you think is the issue with these rigs?

In your opinion, do more wires equate to a better rig?

If you don't like Freedom or Nonsuch, then check out the Maltese Falcon. Certainly that one gets around in the world, and the loads and forces that boat sees must be very large. Wylie Yachts produces high-performance boats without a backstay or shroud on them. Van De Stadt puts them on some high-end passagemakers. Humphrey also. Difficult to believe anyone could put those companies in the "you must be joking" category. The White Pearl clocks in as the largest sailing yacht at 140 meters and it has free-standing masts.

You did profess to not being a rigger&#8230;

Mark


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

A Prout Snowgoose 37 might work well.
Refit if needed, and have many, many $s left for fun and games.
Maybe buy and fit in Europe...then enjoy a trade wind run east....


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## thevdeub (Apr 17, 2010)

Interesting. Is it stable, seaworthy and safe ?


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

thevdeub said:


> Interesting. Is it stable, seaworthy and safe ?


Always do your own research.
Most brokers will tell you want they think will open your wallet the quickest.
I was seriously looking for one at one time, but wound up with something else.
Their history is good, imo.
I like the idea of refitting well built boats.


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## thevdeub (Apr 17, 2010)

Any opinions on a Mahe 36 From fontaine Pajot ? http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2008/Fountaine-Pajot-MAHE-36-2933831/Montenegro#.WIrtLqBuhnF


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