# Mast (Climbing)- No Halyards



## batshaven (Apr 7, 2010)

Hi all,
Glad to have found this group and am new here. Actually new to the whole
sailing thing.
Purchased our 72 26 MKII in April and had a great summer on it, motored
everywhere since we can not raise the sails because both halyards are done. I
believe the jib block is there but nothing for the main sail. Any ideas on how
to climb the mast?
Wondering if those metal shelf brackets that you can get at home depot would
work if you could somehow use self tapping screws to make a ladder to the top of
the mast? Would it be strong enough? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Also spent the day clearing out all belongings, getting ready for a refit and
look forward to using some of the ideas I have seen in this group.
Thanks

Mike


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## fordo (Jul 3, 2006)

I wouldn't use anything that wasn't specifically designed for climbing the mast. The chances of being seriously hurt or killed are too great. I would pull the stick so you can inspect and repair it at your leasure.


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## SVPrairieRose (Oct 10, 2009)

I'm sorry, shelf brackets as mast steps? just screw 'em in as you go? No, please don't. find a marina with a dockside scaffold. Or pull the mast.


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## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

Not unless you're looking to earn a Darwin Award... Baaaaad idea and likely to result in a bad ending.


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## batshaven (Apr 7, 2010)

Thanks, that is kinda what I thought too, but if someone has done it and it worked who knows 



i do have a topping lift that has a block on the side of the mast, now another dumb question but would that be able to hold the weight of a 200 lb man or will the block just pull out of the mast? I think i know the answer but just curious. lol

thanks again appreciate the input

Mike


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## fordo (Jul 3, 2006)

A good block should hold, but, you have never seen it up close, tested it, or inspected it. You don't know how old it is. It may be a pulley from a hardware store designed for clothesline. Don't trust it! Pull the mast or use a scaffold.


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## msmith10 (Feb 28, 2009)

Even if that topping lift is strong enough (and that's an _if,_you shouldn't go up the mast without a safety line-- in other words, you need 2 lines you can trust- 1 to haul you up and the other to keep you there if the first line fails. Agree with previous post- pull the mast or use a cherry picker.


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## MC1 (Jan 6, 2008)

Hey Mike, welcome! Glad you're here and we'd like to see ya around a lot longer! I'm a little concerned about your predicament here. Reading between the lines, sounds like you'd like to avoid the cost of having the mast lowered by a yard and you're looking for a safe do-it-yourself alternative. OK, so the prior posts have made it clear you could be risking your life if you don't handle this situation properly - true enough so ya gotta pay attention to that. Plus, ya really don't wanna wreck your mast by drilling unnecessary holes in it. 

Whatever else though . . . don't attempt to climb the mast without proper gear and a backup - find another solution. I second Fordo's caution: do not trust the attachment point a topping lift block is connected to or the block itself with your life. You don't know how strong it really is and there is a single point of failure risk - one thing breaks . . . maybe you're gone or seriously injured for life - this stuff really happens!

Maybe you haven't received more/better alternative suggestions from the experts here on Sailnet because there aren't too many other good choices for this case (some, possibly involving help from neighbors with taller masts entail property damage risk to your boat and the neighbor's boat, so other sailors might be reluctant to try it). Like brakes on a car - ya just don't skimp on certain key items if you'd like to stick around on this planet a little longer. Maybe suck it up on this one and find a way to pay to have this particular job done safely by a boat yard with proper equipment.


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## cntrycuz (Nov 18, 2010)

Hey just a little idea, find a bridge that is the right height use it as a scaffold.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

cntrycuz said:


> Hey just a little idea, find a bridge that is the right height use it as a scaffold.


Where are you located.. flag says Canada, but where? If you're on tidal water then finding a pier or a ferry landing or a bridge/platform as suggested might work at low tide. Most yacht clubs and many marinas have mast towers that could be useful too.

Another option might be to get hauled up on another boat tied alongside and pull yourself across. We've retrieved halyards for others this way. At least you could check the situation out - if only to determine the mast has to come down for proper repairs.

A 30 foot fall is nothing to take lightly - it could easily be fatal.


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## batshaven (Apr 7, 2010)

Hey Faster, I am in Surrey, BC, Boat is anchored at Rocky Point. Do you know of any good spots. I have lots to learn , and yes MC1 not a rich man but got a good deal on her, and looking for cheap alternatives, but I agree with you and everyone else I should take the mast down and check it over real well.

Thanks again
Mike


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## OtterGreen (May 10, 2011)

i use my arborist climbing saddle and two prusiks, the upper attatched to the bridge of the harness and the other with to foot straps. i sinch up to the spreaders with two other prusik lines ready to go so i can retie above them. the prusik will not slide if you provide enough turns to support your weight and need to physically unwind them for them not to bite. to descend just apply pressure above the knot and come down slow.


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## sfchallenger (May 17, 2011)

*Try a pair of rolling hitches.*

Hi batshaven,

Despite advice to the contrary seen above, I've had good luck getting to the top of my previous two boats' masts barefoot and unassisted. Speed is of the essence as fatigue sets in quickly and it is important to be back at the deck before it is overwhelming. The 'shakey leg' syndrome common to mountain climbing is a good clue you don't have much time left.

A guy I know used an innovative technique, two short lines, tied around the mast with a rolling hitch, then a two foot whip to a bowline with a one foot loop as a foothold. The idea is that you can transfer your weight two one loop at a time, sliding the other upward. A strap of rubber or vinyl attatched to a stout harness might also prove helpful.

People have been climbing up things for a long time. If you are afraid of heights don't try anything I've mentioned. If you aren't and like to take risks, give it a shot. Have a friend around to drive you to the hospital.

Cheers,
h


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

A 26ft boat.. seems to me it would not be so large a mast that it can't be taken down with some help from your friends. Unless it's keel stepped that could be a problem.


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## herezjohnny (Apr 29, 2011)

gantdaily.com/2010/07/19/man-falls-from-ships-mast-dies

sailing.about.com/b/2009/06/08/tragic-fall-from-sailboat-mast.htm

Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Sea Cadet killed in fall from mast on training ship

9&10 News - Woman falls 40 ft from mast onto ship's deck


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

There are many threads around here on dropping/raising a mast. Take it down, do the job right. 

I've stepped mine twice so far, similar sized boat. It's not too terrible of a job with a couple of helpers. 

Welcome to the board.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

carl762 said:


> There are many threads around here on dropping/raising a mast. Take it down, do the job right.


+1

Jim


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## DivingOtter (May 5, 2012)

Two prussics are how I have done it. wrap around the mast, advance, step up, advance step up. at the spreaders tie in a new one above them and repeat. This knot is only for those with experience as if tied incorrectly can fail. In a past life i was an arborist so climbing was an everyday occurrence and am very comfortable with its use.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

If the OP is asking, "Any ideas on how to climb the mast?" the answer should be an unequivocal *DO NOT ATTEMPT*. If the OP had done it, he wouldn't be asking.


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## Domknotty (Jun 1, 2011)

Then there is this idea, rent an arborist. Most tree trimming companies have a 40 foot lift bucket and very few would ever turn down a chance to make money. If they do not have a handy lift or you cannot get close enough to their truck to do any good, I would suggest the arborist make the climb, a mast is a simple climb with the right gear. When the job is completed, pay and tip the climber very well, doing so will possibly earn you a mast monkey for life. Fact is despite the couple news worthy events a year of someone falling from their mast, people have been climbing mast for a thousand years. Safety and a redundant safety are a must. If they know what they are doing they will already have the gear they need. Other "climbers" include linemen, recreational rock climbers, and professional search and rescue climbers. Ask around and make connections. Bottom line, it's just a mast.


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

Domknotty said:


> Then there is this idea, rent an arborist. Most tree trimming companies have a 40 foot lift bucket and very few would ever turn down a chance to make money. If they do not have a handy lift or you cannot get close enough to their truck to do any good, I would suggest the arborist make the climb, a mast is a simple climb with the right gear. When the job is completed, pay and tip the climber very well, doing so will possibly earn you a mast monkey for life. Fact is despite the couple news worthy events a year of someone falling from their mast, people have been climbing mast for a thousand years. Safety and a redundant safety are a must. If they know what they are doing they will already have the gear they need. Other "climbers" include linemen, recreational rock climbers, and professional search and rescue climbers. Ask around and make connections. Bottom line, it's just a mast.


Good post. While I believe everyone should be capable of doing any task on a boat. There is no harm in hiring a "professional" to do a task that if you make a mistake will kill you. And these jobs always can use a few extra bucks. (and extra practice)


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## dvuyxx (Jun 23, 2009)

I've had an ATN Mastclimber for about a year now but I've been too chicken to figure it out or use it. My windex, steaming light, and new masthead LED will have to wait until I muster up the courage.


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## BMLipiec (Feb 3, 2009)

Besides the safety issue, it is also beneficial to pull the mast to check for problem areas. Especially if it hasn't been done in awhile. Corrosion and fatigue cracking may be hard to see until you pull the mast to methodically inspect. 
Common problem areas: Mast steps, both keel and deck stepped masts, mast attachments for standing rigging, rigging wire and terminals, running rigging blocks and attachment points, electrical connections at the base of the mast as well as to the equipment up top.
When I pulled my mast last year I found that the electrical plug for the mast wiring was almost completely corroded through. How it still worked I have no idea. 
Overall, it was a learning experience and worth the $$ and effort.


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## KnottyGurl (Feb 8, 2011)

dropped my mast and found loose rivets in spreader plates, small crack in mast headlight, so was worth the time now drop it.


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## tweitz (Apr 5, 2007)

If the boat is new to you and has not been superbly maintained, there is another concern with climbing the mast. You don't have any idea if the standing rigging is in great shape. When you climb the mast you are putting a lot of weight high up. If a fitting gives way, you could be badly injured even though you never let go of the mast.


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

*...and how was your day?*

I went to the Ship's Store here in MDR, where they have a loaner Bos'un chair. I had my dock neighbor hoist me up and I spent an hour or so up there blowing around trying to get my torn jib down. After seeing close up what I had to deal with, I elected to pay a professional the $75/hour to do the serious work, which involves removing the forestay to take the furler down and service it thoroughly. That is the pro in the picture.


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## Night_Sailor (May 27, 2012)

batshaven said:


> Hi all,
> Glad to have found this group and am new here. Actually new to the whole
> sailing thing.
> Purchased our 72 26 MKII in April and had a great summer on it, motored
> ...


Mike sell your boat. You have no business being on the water with ideas like this. Trust me, I've been teaching sailing part time for over 40 years. People with clueless ideas like this are a danger to themselves and others. Get and RV and be safe.

For any real sailors out there. Try using a couple pieces of thin strong line and make loops and attach them to a thick rope halyard with prussic knots. It works but is a bit slow. I've done it. Ascenders might be better but at a higher cost. A mast mate works, although I've never used one. None of this works without a halyard and of course a second one for a safety.


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## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

Mike, glad to see you found sailnet! {Night Sailor;maybe you should curb your opinons!} Sailing is a lesson we are always learning--Enjoy!...Dale


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## Bene505 (Jul 31, 2008)

If I ever lose all halyards at once, I plan to us a couple lines, each wrapped around the mast 4 or more times, with some slack in the final loop. Then I'll use each of those as prusic knots, sliding them up one at a time, and letting them support the chair and foot loops on my TopClimber.

(I use this technique when installing my main sail solo. The top sliders go into the track first, which means I'm lifting significant weight while fiddling with getting the final sliders/cars inserted. The mast loops -- tied around the mast below the lowest inserted slider/car -- relieve the weight and make the job easy. Think of this as separating the act of lifting from the act of inserting the sliders/cars. It becomes a casual activity instead.)

Ascending the mast this way would be slow going, and I'd need to re-tie new loops after each spreader, but it would work, slowly. It would probably take 3 hours to ascend.

My lawyer just called. This is too dangerous, don't do any of this. Hire a professional rigger. They could use the work and they know what they are doing. And you'll likely get some hints on any obvious issues.

Regards,
Brad


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Night_Sailor said:


> Mike sell your boat. You have no business being on the water with ideas like this. Trust me, I've been teaching sailing part time for over 40 years. People with clueless ideas like this are a danger to themselves and others. Get and RV and be safe.
> 
> For any real sailors out there. Try using a couple pieces of thin strong line and make loops and attach them to a thick rope halyard with prussic knots. It works but is a bit slow. I've done it. Ascenders might be better but at a higher cost. A mast mate works, although I've never used one. None of this works without a halyard and of course a second one for a safety.


Night...... How do you feel about someone who quotes an 18 month old post and repeats advice given already?


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## savinhill (Feb 3, 2013)

Rent an extention ladder and tie it to the mast as you go up it works well and is quite safe!!!


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## Night_Sailor (May 27, 2012)

Minnewaska said:


> Night...... How do you feel about someone who quotes an 18 month old post and repeats advice given already?


I only get on here once every two years. I don't read other peoples responses, I write my own.

How old is it now? 4 years? Who cares?

As for the extreme clueless, there are people who are a danger to themselves and others. They should play golf to limit the damages.

In any event, I sometimes wonder if the administrators don't feed the forums with nonsense queries like this just to generate conversation.


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## tanzertom (Jan 4, 2015)

Every two years is way too often given your attitude and worthless opinion.


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## minigran (Sep 3, 2013)

Guys, at 69 I can't afford to fall, not enough time left to heal. I go aloft in a Boson Chair, Safety harness, ATM Mast climber, Main Halyard hooked to the Bosom Chair upper D ring and a safety line around the mast and hooked to the safety harness. Climber running up the Jib Halyard and a safety line preventing swing. Assistant on winch to take up slack and help my legs and a tail handler to watch my progress. I'm 189 lbs and even after 11 years of football and coaching 1/2 my life my legs are not strong enough to climb with out the winch assistance. "Old but not dead yet" remember safety first and not if but when it happens as quoted by Don Cassey.


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## capt jgwinks (Sep 24, 2013)

I kind of chuckle a little when I read these posts where people are willing to do almost anything to avoid unstepping the mast. Really, it's not that big a deal. Up here in snow land, the boats come out of the water for six months every year, and some of the marina's don't even allow storing with the mast up of you're on jack stands. Some even have low power lines between the storage area and launch well. Many masts are unstepped every year, I try to do mine every couple of years. It's better for the mast and boat, and makes inspection and maintenance much easier. The marina I store at has a tall gin pole (hand cranked crane) that we use and it's free if we do it ourselves. Takes about half an hour for three people, and we could do it with two if we didn't have a jib furler.


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## arvicola-amphibius (Apr 14, 2012)

My current boat has a 34 foot mast of fairly heavy section material. It came with mast steps already fitted, obviously done properly by the spar maker. They are the greatest convenience since sliced bread. I can be at the top of the mast in under a minute, though I do take a little longer because I always go aloft with a safety harness and take a couple of turns around the mast with a strap which has to be unclipped and re-clipped as I pass the spreaders. Once at the position where I need to work I hang off the harness with my feet securely in the steps. With a second strap around the mast - just in case.

Other than windage which would not be acceptable to a pure racer, the only downside is that the main halliard can sometimes catch around one of the steps. I have learned to watch for this as I hoist the main.

When you do bite the bullet and unstep the mast, it may be worth having a pro fit proper steps. NOT with self tappers! Rivets would be the way to go. Depending on the cost, they could pay for themselves if you don't have a need to unstep annually.

Re unstepping, I am of the school who avoids it because I am too cheap to hire a crane. The mast is stepped on deck which made the following a bit easier, but it could be done with any mast:
Recently I found about two inches at the heel was corroded. The previous owner had used brass rivets into aluminium, but only in this one place. The solution was to slack the rigging off but not uncouple the turnbuckles, and double up with extra rope to deck cleats etc to stabilise it. Then we placed some spreaders on the deck and used a high lift ratchet jack under the spinnaker pole fitting to lift the mast up enough to get in and slice out the corroded bottom two inches. The plug at the heel was removed and cleaned up and repainted, as was the getting rid of the corrosion at the base of the mast. Then the mast was dropped back on to the heel fitting and refixed with alloy rivets. Now the mast is two inches shorter, and raked back slightly as I did not want to change the forestay length due to the self furler. But this has not resulted in any excessive weather helm (which I thought could be the outcome) and I feel so much better about getting rid of the corrosion at minimal cost.


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