# Hunter 23 questions - homemade rudder



## itsaboat (Sep 28, 2011)

At 40-ish, my wife and I are considering our first boat. I have been lurking on this forum for a month or so and now making my virgin post! We found a 1988 Hunter 23 about an hour from here that has been nicely refurbished: refinished keel, teak, and very clean. From what I have read about these boats, they are fun to sail, fairly fast for a monohull, and pretty solid boats. I have not found a particularly bad review of them, other than the general anti-Hunter statements. 

I like the boat, but have a couple of reservations that I would like to get your opinion on. There is no motor, so I will consider this in the price. Another concern that has grown in my mind is that the former owner replaced the (probably split) rudder with a home-fabricated one made out of Corian. Yes, Corian, the stuff that is more at home in kitchens. They redesigned the rudder assembly so that it pivots to swivel up in case of impact. It replaces the tie-down rig that is stock on the H23. It seems like it could take some heavy abuse, but it does not seem very hydrodynamic. It is beveled on the edges, but the original rudders look more like hydrofoils while this one looks, well, like a heavy board (see pic). 

The boat is on the trailer, disassembled, and away from water, so I don't have any idea how this will affect sailing. Do you think this is enough of an issue that I should consider this in what I offer for the boat? Replacement rudders are between $500-$900. 

Thanks for any input on this boat.


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## dnf777 (Jun 23, 2007)

Have no experience with Corian rudders, but in general would expect a significant adjustment in price for such a substitution, especially in this buyer's market. Also, unless you're very boat savvy, I would have a surveyor or at least someone very knowledgable look at your pintles and gudgeons to make sure there's no structural damage being covered up with paint and filler. 

Also give the motor mount a good scrutiny. I looked at a H23 that had a very loose motor mount similar to the one in your picture. The fact there's no motor and a fabricated rudder would raise a red flag in my mind, and prompt a marine surveyor's visit.

I would pay no heed to the anti-hunter comments. If you find a boat that is solid, a good fit for your needs/desires, and you enjoy it.....that's all that matters.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

You can get a aftermarket rudder should you buy the boat. Use the corian for other things.the stock rudder is a hokey set up anyway. I had a H23 1982 swing keel (I think the only year it had that option) It's a nice boat to sail. The mast is difficult to drop for 2 average adults The Transom will need reinforcement no matter what motor you have. I also didn't like the trailer and felt it wasn't really well thought out with the boat so high. I sold it to a young man that traversed lake Erie with it.


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## itsaboat (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks for the input. He is asking in the $5k neighborhood, which seems a bit high compared to other asking prices I see on yachtworld and other sites for the same boat. Most of these other boats include a few extras like electronics. This one is pretty bare bones. But it is near and I would not have to incur traveling costs. 

Denise, what motor did you use on yours? Was it enough power?


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

The loads on rudders are huge. $5k for a boat with little to no extras, no motor? and a hack job of a rudder (sorry) is too much. How is the trailer and sails? How many sails? How's the running rigging? You can get a nice boat for 5k these days. 

3.5hp is all you'll need for that boat.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I had a 9.9 merc, way more then it needed but it had electric start! on the river here the HP wasn't wasted. 5k seems high imo. could get a catalina 25 for close to that price.


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## captainrizzo (Feb 24, 2008)

itsaboat, welcome aboard! I am a Hunter 306 owner so I cannot comment on the specific boat you are interested in. However, I share the same feelings as dnf. This is certainly a buyer's market. Spend the extra time to find a boat that is sound. This refit seems a bit problematic and the last thing you want to do is buy someone else's problem. Denise's comment about reinforcing the transom should give you pause. You could probably do a lot better for $5k.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Too much for a boat that's been modified and not repaired properly. I've been restoring a boat with similar "mods" and trust me, you'll find more DIY crap that you'll need to do over because of the previous owner. Go have a look, but be wary.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

If you want to make another rudder it is relatively easy. The best construction is marine plywood (teak ply would look stunning), covered in epoxy/fibreglass, then finally a layer of varnish or paint. You could use your rudder to have a piece of plywood cut or I'm sure a template is available somewhere.

The same applies to the rudder stock.

Done right you should end up with something strong AND very attractive.


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## emoney (Jun 2, 2010)

I'm going with the rest of the "peanut gallery" and agree that it seems a tad much. I'm not a fan of aftermarket rudders, and that's speaking from experience. The engineer behind this model's rudder had specific forces and dynamics in mind when he/she came up with it's final dimensions. If nothing else, purchase the boat and then get a replacement rudder that meets those dimensions as designed. Good luck regardless what you decide and do keep us informed.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

For the record, I bought a Capri 22, fixed wing keel, trailer, running 6hp motor, and none of these mods (and roller furling, and spinnaker, mainsail boot, and race options) for $4800 in June.

I have seen tons of the Hunter 23s in and around my area for between $3000 and $5000 with a trailer. They are good boats, and sail well (I am not anti-hunter), but it sounds like the guy might be about $1500 or so high (at best).

Look at EVERYTHING. Tires? bearings (are they bearing buddies?) Trailer lights? Brakes on the trailer? Like others said, sails (those are the most expensive thing save the motor). Running rigging (are all the lines chafed? or mold/mildew?). Look at the chainplates (are they rusted? twisted? missing UGH)... Shrouds, look for ginks, and twists, and frays. Turnbuckles on shrouds.. look for bends, and stripped threads.

I think I got the hot points. Quote the guy the price for a used 6hp motor ($600), and a new rudder ($500)... and lower the boat's offer accordingly. Then follow up with deductions for anything else on the above list that is wrong (and will cost you money to replace). Rather, deduct these monies from KBB or NADA value of the boat.

I have to say, I knew what I purchased with my boat... it needs work. Lines, standing rigging, and bottom paint. The motor was unknown (no way to test). when I bought it it ran great... after 2 weeks use, nothing. Carb rebuild and various other work ($300 later)... viola' working again. With that said, it was still sailed all summer by me... so technically it is "sail away." I am just picky how I want it to be going forward.

Anyway sounds like we all say look at it, but keep in mind a replacement (rudder) might be in line.


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## MarkCK (Jan 4, 2009)

Unless you are in Florida it is late in the season. Sailboats really weren't selling that well at the begining of the summer. The owner will probably be sitting on this boat all winter. Wait a month or so and then put in a bid. Or just spend the winter looking at other boats that have owners that really don't want to wait till spring when the boat shoppers come out.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

We paid $4K for our Tartan 27' with a working Atomic 4 engine in sail away condition 8 years ago.
$5K for a H 23 without an engine is just delusional unless they had used the Corian for the galley counter top. The rudder shape looks fine but is certainly an unusual choice of material.
IMHO, $4K is too much and $3K about right since you'll want to add a motor.

As others indicated, it is a buyers market so keep looking around.


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## itsaboat (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks for all the input everyone! I did go to see the boat this week. He has done quite a bit of work and pointed it all out. In addition to refinishing all of the teak, he has replaced a starboard bulkhead and reseated the leaking chainplate that caused it. He did nice work on the wood and fiberglass. Refinished the iron keel, and painted and buffed the hull. He ordered some new standing rigging to replace lines that were kinked. He says he has plenty of running rigging around to refit the entire boat for me. The mainsail is almost new from Sail Warehouse and the jib looks good. I don't know what type of jib it is. He offered to throw in a roller furler/jib if I wanted it. He also replaced all of the electrical switches. It is missing the swim ladder. Maybe it was never installed, or the holes where covered since. 

Everyplace on the boat is dry, but of course it hasn't been in the water in a while. The keel bolts look shiny, and the cabin smells like it has been dry for the duration of its life.

The trailer is in okay shape, but the tires are showing some dry rot. I did not check the bearings.

The boat was in fresh water all of it's life. Is there anything else I should look into? I get a pretty good feeling from the guy, he has been refurbishing boats for 12 yrs since his retirement. He is just asking a too much without a motor. 

We think that a trailer sailor will work best for our first boat. We can store it on the trailer at the local marina for a fraction of the slip fees and we can take it to other local lakes in Arkansas if we want. We want a modest cabin and room for 4 people at least. I don't want to get in too deep financially into the first boat in case we want to either move up in a year (likely), or want to leave sailing (unlikely) and sell it. I don't mind adding a few items (VHF, stereo, depth/speed, clamcleats, etc...), but I also want it to be water ready. This one seems like it might fit these criteria. Unfortunately, there just are not that many boats for sale in this area that do.

Thanks again for the input.


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## baboon (Aug 7, 2008)

It looks to be a pretty clean small boat, and with newer sails and rigging it could be worth a look if you can get the price down enough to offset the cost of a motor. One thing is to make sure you, the owner, and perhaps someone with trailer sailer experience puts the whole thing together prior to purchase. There are lots of small parts than can get lost, the rigging might be new, but not the right size, sails can look fine in the bag, but not fit the boat or furller.

The rudder is still an issue, not only is it just a flat board instead of a foil, I am not sure if corain is up to the task. I understand it is great as a surface for counters, but I do not know how resistant it is to bending and breaking. I agree with the previous post about fabricating a plywood/glass rudder to have in reserve. It would not be a hard or expensive project.


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## itsaboat (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks baboon,
It is a clean boat, but ultimately we could not agree on fair value. I am moving on in the search for our first boat. I looked at a 1985 Pearson 27 and a 1986 Catalina 27 today that both looked pretty good. I will be asking the SailNet community for their opinions on these two soon.


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## Hardyw38 (Feb 28, 2012)

*Used Hunter 23 rudder for sale*

I have a used rudder from a hunter 23 for sale. I have the entire assembly and it is in good condition, asking $150.
Hardy


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## newbee (Apr 24, 2011)

Wow! I think that's a lot as well. We bought our Hunter 22 last year and had a ball learning to sail in Portland Maine. We paid 3,500 and had the mast rigging redone. Then bought a new 8.5 electric start motor. The rigging was about 1,000 and the motor was 1,700 I think. I redid all the cushions and she sails like a charm and is beautiful. Do you live in Maine? We are looking for a liveaboard and our little Hunter is for sale.


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## T_well (Sep 20, 2012)

Glad I found this site. I'm about to purchase an '85 H23 that seems to be sound. It has been in a slip for at least the last 5 years. I plan to trailer sail it though. It is sailable as is but needs interior upkeep on the cushions. It was completely dry inside, comes with trailer, 5 HP motor, main and 2 jibs rather genoas. He was only asking $2500. I think after reading this that I got a good deal.


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## JTNeal (Jul 5, 2021)

Hardyw38 said:


> *Used Hunter 23 rudder for sale*
> 
> I have a used rudder from a hunter 23 for sale. I have the entire assembly and it is in good condition, asking $150.
> Hardy


Do you still have this rudder?


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## JTNeal (Jul 5, 2021)

do you still have this rudder?


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