# Need help in preparation for unstepping my mast.



## Beersmith (Nov 5, 2008)

I will be having my mast pulled next Tuesday, and could use some ideas on preparation leading up to it. I have removed all hardware, running rigging, booms, etc. and all that remains is the mast connected to the boat by the standing rigging. I have ensured all of the turnbuckles are turning. 

When the yard comes with the crane next Tuesday, I am to have the whole thing ready to be pulled (DIY, no yard help de-rigging to save $$). If my assumptions are correct, all that will need to take place once the crane is supporting the mast is to remove the clevis and cotter pins at the base of each stay/shroud, is this correct? Also, does it matter where you disconnect the rigging...as in should I release the pins from the attachments on the chainplates, or the swaged fitting on the wire itself? Or does it not matter at all?

Just trying to make sure all my bases are covered.


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

You don't say why you are pulling the stick. However, I would recommend that you mark all your turnbuckles to facilitate tuning when you put the mast back up. A wrap of electrical tape on the thread top and bottom works well for this.
Have the cotter pins straightened and ready to pull. 
I would take the turnbuckles off with the cables. 

If the mast is keel stepped, you could just about take everything loose. At least have the lower shrouds off. 

Make sure that you have all the electrical disconnected unless it's in the mast. Sometimes you have to lift the mast up a few inches to access the wires. 

If it's keel stepped, take the mast boot and wedges out ahead of time. 

Have the furling line removed or coiled up and tied to the furler.


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## Beersmith (Nov 5, 2008)

Thanks! It is a deck stepped mast.

I'm removing it for a complete overhaul of the standing rigging, mast electronics & wiring, mast painting, repair of core beneath mast step, compression post replacement.....the list goes on.


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

Beersmith said:


> Thanks! It is a deck stepped mast.
> 
> I'm removing it for a complete overhaul of the standing rigging, mast electronics & wiring, mast painting, repair of core beneath mast step, compression post replacement.....the list goes on.


In that case, it's rather important that you mark the turnbuckles before you loosen them so that the new shrouds and stays can be made the right length. 
Good luck.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

I unstepped my mast with an A-frame that I built. 

When you say "remove clevis and cotter pins", it sounds like you're asking whether you need to disassemble the entire shroud/deck attachment hardware. That seems like overkill to me for the purpose of getting your mast down. Once you have the rings or whatever out of the studs, you will be rotating the turnbuckle (NOT the shroud's swaged stud) to disconnect the shroud from the deck. Regardless if whether the shroud stud or the deck stud comes out of the turnbuckle first, you're done at that point. No sense wasting valuable crane time to get everything else off.

Because of the arrangement of my A-frame, I did undid the forestay last. I undid the lowers before undoing the uppers, mostly out of fear.

Something I did not do but would recommend. Label each piece of standing rigging before you undo them. Also, once all the pieces are off, tie them securely to the mast. Otherwise it's like Cthulhu means The Terminator on your deck.

I also have a deck-stepped mast. When pulling the mast, instead of removing it from the boat right away, I lowered it onto a 4-in-high block placed right next to the mast step, so that I could unplug the wires that went into the mast.

Have you figured out where you're going to put the mast once it's down? I did my unstepping at the dock and basically rested the mast on the bow and stern pulpits, lashed down so that it wouldn't roll or slide off. I lowered it so that the masthead was sticking off at the stern, which happened to be end easily accessed from the dock, which was great because I needed to do work at the masthead and could do it standing on the dock. Also, the mast, despite being pretty stiff, sagged in the middle; since I was going to be leaving it down for a couple of weeks, I arrange for some support in the middle.

That's all I can remember.


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

AdamLein said:


> When you say "remove clevis and cotter pins", it sounds like you're asking whether you need to disassemble the entire shroud/deck attachment hardware. That seems like overkill to me for the purpose of getting your mast down. Once you have the rings or whatever out of the studs, you will be rotating the turnbuckle (NOT the shroud's swaged stud) to disconnect the shroud from the deck. Regardless if whether the shroud stud or the deck stud comes out of the turnbuckle first, you're done at that point. No sense wasting valuable crane time to get everything else off.


The reason for marking and removing the turnbuckles with the shrouds and stays is so that the Pin to Pin measurement can be accurately reestablished by whoever is making up the new rigging. 
If the old rigging was all the perfect length. Meaning that the turnbuckles were not turned down or opened up too far, then the new rigging can be made up by just duplicating each piece using the Pin to end-of-stud measurement. 
If the turnbuckles are going to be replaced or if some of the pieces were a little too long or too short, you need an accurate Pin to Pin.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Good point; I wasn't replacing my rigging when I did my unstepping. Still, if you're at all pressed for time, it seems it's something you can do after the fact.

What exactly is the measurement you're describing? Is it the distance between the two threaded studs inside the turnbuckle?


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## thehardaground (Jan 19, 2011)

Having a spare person to hold the base of the mast, and a couple of bungy cords to secure all your shrouds to the rig is also nice.


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## rickinnocal (Mar 2, 2011)

AdamLein said:


> What exactly is the measurement you're describing? Is it the distance between the two threaded studs inside the turnbuckle?


"Pin to Pin" refers to the distance from the pin holding the top of the shroud / stay to the mast to the pin holding the bottom of the turnbuckle to the chainplate. The entire removable length of rigging, in other words.

That's why it's normal not to unscrew the turnbuckle all the way, but only far enough to take the weight off the pin holding the turnbuckle to the chainplate, and then remove that pin, leaving the turnbuckle hanging from the shroud. That's also a lot quicker than unscrewing the turnbuckle all the way off while the crane operator holds the mast in place. Then, if you've used tape or paint to mark how far in the turnbuckles were screwed it's just a matter of turning them back in to the same point, and you can get a measurement that enables new rigging to be made. After all, not much point knowing the exact length of the 'wire' for a shroud if your new turnbuckle is a different length from the old one.

Richard


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

rickinnocal said:


> "Pin to Pin" refers to the distance from the pin holding the top of the shroud / stay to the mast to the pin holding the bottom of the turnbuckle to the chainplate. The entire removable length of rigging, in other words.
> 
> That's why it's normal not to unscrew the turnbuckle all the way, but only far enough to take the weight off the pin holding the turnbuckle to the chainplate, and then remove that pin, leaving the turnbuckle hanging from the shroud. That's also a lot quicker than unscrewing the turnbuckle all the way off while the crane operator holds the mast in place. Then, if you've used tape or paint to mark how far in the turnbuckles were screwed it's just a matter of turning them back in to the same point, and you can get a measurement that enables new rigging to be made. After all, not much point knowing the exact length of the 'wire' for a shroud if your new turnbuckle is a different length from the old one.
> 
> Richard


Exactly.


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## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

being thursday I assume the mast is down and you were able to get pin to pin dimensions, keep us informed about how it went.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Ahh... my error then was in thinking I needed to remove the turnbuckle entirely. Thanks for that explanation. Will definitely be helpful next time.


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## Beersmith (Nov 5, 2008)

EJO said:


> being thursday I assume the mast is down and you were able to get pin to pin dimensions, keep us informed about how it went.


It is coming down next Tuesday, March 8. I will post pictures and a write up of how it goes.

I appreciate the comments from everyone so far. I think I have it all ready to roll. I have some questions about the rigging, but need some to spend more time than I have available to post them.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

Best of luck, I booked the crane time today for my unstepping. We do it on Monday.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

Stick came off today:






Took an hour (I was pre prepared, everything was ready to go). Fun stuff! To note - I don't know how anyone lives without mast steps to climb. Had we not had them, it would have taken an extra hour.

Last note, listen to Cate laugh midway through when the stick is, uh.. positioned like it's my.. :laugher


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## Beersmith (Nov 5, 2008)

Good stuff! Glad it went smoothly, hope mine does as well. I have the crane scheduled for 1:00 pm (est) today. No mast steps for me, hope the yard knows what they are doing!


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## EJO (Jan 10, 2010)

Cate(Chris) great video. Chris I don't understand your comment about the mast steps, as a bosun chair works fine when needed, and when I(we) un-stepped my mast last fall we didn't have to climb up the mast for anything as all was loosened at deck level and the yard positioned the sling correctly without having to climb up.
As for the stick position half way thru you (or Cate) wish.  :laugher


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

Beersmith said:


> Good stuff! Glad it went smoothly, hope mine does as well. I have the crane scheduled for 1:00 pm (est) today. No mast steps for me, hope the yard knows what they are doing!


Best of luck! I'm sure it will go smoothly..


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## LakeSuperiorGeezer (Oct 8, 2010)

So, are you going to get a good book and do the rigging yourself?


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

EJO said:


> Cate(Chris) great video. Chris I don't understand your comment about the mast steps, as a bosun chair works fine when needed, and when I(we) un-stepped my mast last fall we didn't have to climb up the mast for anything as all was loosened at deck level and the yard positioned the sling correctly without having to climb up.
> As for the stick position half way thru you (or Cate) wish.  :laugher


The chair just takes longer any way you slice it, and the place we are at bills for the crane in half hour increments (giving us the chance to save a half hour if were snappy).. we are trying to save $$ everywhere we can because we are doing a total refit and we are hemorrhaging money at this point.. a good bleed, don't get me wrong, but still...

The steps were needed because it was so windy and the lines kept getting hung up on the steaming light assembly.. no way anyone could have done it yesterday on finesse alone.. a trip up the mast was inevitable..

Oh, I think Cate might _not_ quite wish for that kind of, uh... :laugher


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

One trick to keep the sling from hanging up on lights and such is to trap a couple of halyards inside the sling. Then when the sling starts to hang on a light or something, you just need to pull it away from the stick with the halyard.


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## Beersmith (Nov 5, 2008)

On Tuesday, the crane showed up and I had everything prepped for a quick removal. I told the yard that I didn't need any help (i.e. pay them $$$) in preparation, but they took that as I didn't need any help once the crane got there. Myself and the crane operator tried to give it a go, but once he realized I really didn't know what I was doing he went to get the yard guys. They came and lent a hand, and the mast was off in about 15 minutes. I guess I owe them some money for their help, unfortunately I figure I will get charged for a whole hour of their time.

After the mast was off I spent the day inspecting the mast & rigging, taking it apart, and snapping photos as I went along. I don't have many photos of the actual de-masting, since I had to be in the thick of the action.

Liftoff!




























slowly let down on the sawhorses










The mast step, notice the old nickel! I want to glass in a nice coin underneath it once finished.










Decks getting pretty bare


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

I was curious about all the work and angst going into this, and I kind of understand now.

My mast is stepped on a rounded, hinged pivot plate on the foot of the mast. 4 of us lowered it using the spin halyard run through the tack block, and 3 of us aft, at progressively lower elevations to carry the load as the mast got lower. No cranes, no fuss.

Just lucky to have chosen that boat, I had no idea that it was going to go down that way.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

Congrats Erik, looks like she's down.. sweet. Hey, on a surfing note, I grew up in FL, and I lived right on A street in St A for a short spell 1n 1988/89. I used to surf there as a grommet (I was 15/16)..

I think the spot near the pier, north a bit, was called blowhole if I remember correctly.. 

Anyway, I have been thinking about some mast mods now that mines down, and the "hinge" mentioned by Bubblehead is fascinating.. how about a pic Bh? I plan on running conduit for the wiring, and I have been thinking about ways to add buoyancy to the mast in the event of a rollover.. I have thought about adding (removable) foam blocks inside the mast, as well as spraying expanding foam at both the top and bottom before re stepping the mast (my thoughts were that it would create a sealed air chamber inside the stick..

Just some thoughts.. keep us posted on what you do to yours. Are you going to add mast steps? I have the contact info for the one place that makes the aluminum "A" type like I have, they are about $9 a piece I think..


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## micheck (Sep 29, 2010)

I've read several recommendations to add foam and seal off the mast for flotation - how do they handle the internal halyards and the mast wiring?


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

micheck said:


> I've read several recommendations to add foam and seal off the mast for flotation - how do they handle the internal halyards and the mast wiring?


I'd imagine conduit first (for all?), then foam...

But... I don't know for sure.. Knothead? Thoughts?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

Chris
I don't think expanding foam is a good idea. When water gets in the mast it has to drain out. 
As far as the hinge assembly, I don't think it is as strong as what you currently have.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

mitiempo said:


> Chris
> I don't think expanding foam is a good idea. When water gets in the mast it has to drain out.
> As far as the hinge assembly, I don't think it is as strong as what you currently have.


A small drain tube perhaps?

I'd really like to come up with a system of stepping/unstepping my mast without the need for a crane... something simple and most of all, safe..


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## sailor50 (Aug 26, 2009)

Beersmith - Pay the yard one hour's charge for their liability insurance in assisting you with the crane and unstepping. 

You made your ignorance hit your pocketbook, and interrupted their scheduled work. Why shouldn't you be accountable for that?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

There are ways to do that, but the 2 plate & hinge step is not really a big boat item. A real tabernacle would work. 

Personally I would worry more that it stay up rather than be easy to lower unless you are planning to travel canals and will be lowering and raising it regularly. If you haul out for the winter some yards insist the mast be removed but other than that why would you want to remove it other than once a decade or so. After it is painted you can do everything including complete rigging replacement with the stick up.

Here is a pic of the hinge type arrangement followed by the only pic I could find of a tabernacle - higher than necessary I think but properly made with the mast modified a bit it would work. A lower one need not have the winches attached to it. Heavily made of stainless ideally.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

mitiempo said:


> There are ways to do that, but the 2 plate & hinge step is not really a big boat item. A real tabernacle would work.
> 
> Personally I would worry more that it stay up rather than be easy to lower unless you are planning to travel canals and will be lowering and raising it regularly. If you haul out for the winter some yards insist the mast be removed but other than that why would you want to remove it other than once a decade or so. After it is painted you can do everything including complete rigging replacement with the stick up.
> 
> Here is a pic of the hinge type arrangement followed by the only pic I could find of a tabernacle - higher than necessary I think but properly made with the mast modified a bit it would work. A lower one need not have the winches attached to it. Heavily made of stainless ideally.


Interesting, good pics - thanks! 

I'd like to be able to unstep the mast basically so I know I can do it at will. When voyaging to far flung locales, you just never know when you might have to be able to do something like this. I am fascinated by the notion of self sufficiency in all areas of my boats systems (I have far to go in this pursuit I realize, however the goal remains..), I plan on one day being able to do it all myself.


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

Chris, first off, I really recommend that you do NOT use foam to try to seal off the mast. For one thing, you aren't going to get it sealed completely anyway. Water is going to get in and as someone else mentioned, it has to get out. 
It reminds me of a time when I was installing lazyjacks on a Morgan 41'. I was above the spreaders and drilled a 3/16" hole in the side of the mast and then had to wait for about ten minutes for the stream of water that appeared to finally drain out. Someone had squirted expanding foam in at a number of locations and this guy had been carrying around gallons of water in his mast for who knows how long. 
For another thing, I doubt that even if you were to fill the entire stick with foam, you would have enough buoyancy to float the mast. The rigging, furler, sails, line, boom are all going to be dragging it down. It may sink slower, but it will still sink. 

Adding a tabernacle is something that you could do, but you really want to figure it all out before you have your rigging made. 
The way mine is set up is that I have a big bolt that the mast pivots forward on. There are wires that run from the end of the boom to a diamond plate built into the upper shrouds at the same exact height as the pivot pin. There are another set of wires that I run from the corner of the same diamond plate aft to the sheet winches to keep the lower section of the upper shroud (the part below the diamond plate) from going forward as the mast lowers. 
The boom acts like a gin pole and as the mast comes down you ease your extra long main sheet to lower the mast down to the bow pulpit. 
Now you have like a thirty foot bowsprit. But your mast is down. 
There is a good description of this set up in Bruce Bingham's "The Sailors Sketchbook".

All in all, it's a pretty complicated process and it's a little scary to perform. I would not want to try to lower mine unless tied up to a dock in calm conditions. 

My advise is to forgo the tabernacle idea and just consentrate on making sure that everything it right before you put the mast back up. Meaning replace the chainplates, rigging, and everything else that may be suspect. Sail prudently, reef early and pay attention to the weather. Keep your Karma in good health and hope for the best. 

Also, I have pulled masts on boats just by tying up to another equal or larger sized boat and using their main halyard. In all the years that I've had my tabernacle mast, I've used it a total of three times. 
But then I do have my own crane and have used that a few times too.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

The mast pivot is really more of a smaller boat thing. I wouldn't do it on 30+'.
Isn't an Alberg 30 keel stepped anyway??

You know, I totally understand the convenience of having those mast ascension steps so you can quickly climb the mast, but to me they are just fugly. I like a nice, clean look. I go for "prevention" vs "correction". I guess it also helps that my mast is easy to lower.

Different stroke for different folks.


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## Beersmith (Nov 5, 2008)

sailor50 said:


> Beersmith - Pay the yard one hour's charge for their liability insurance in assisting you with the crane and unstepping.
> 
> You made your ignorance hit your pocketbook, and interrupted their scheduled work. Why shouldn't you be accountable for that?


pardon? my ignorance? I did pay the yard to do the unstepping, and that was the plan the whole time. They misunderstood and thought I didn't want that. Clearly you misunderstood what I wrote. Thanks for the harsh words though


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

Beersmith said:


> pardon? my ignorance? I did pay the yard to do the unstepping, and that was the plan the whole time. They misunderstood and thought I didn't want that. Clearly you misunderstood what I wrote. Thanks for the harsh words though


In all fairness, when you wrote; " I guess I owe them some money for their help", it made it sound like you kinda begrudged the idea of paying them for their time.


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## LandLocked66c (Dec 5, 2009)

Beersmith said:


> pardon? my ignorance? I did pay the yard to do the unstepping, and that was the plan the whole time. They misunderstood and thought I didn't want that. Clearly you misunderstood what I wrote. Thanks for the harsh words though


Ah, good ole sailnet and it's grumpy old men! You can always count on that!


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## Beersmith (Nov 5, 2008)

knothead said:


> In all fairness, when you wrote; " I guess I owe them some money for their help", it made it sound like you kinda begrudged the idea of paying them for their time.


ahh. Maybe I should add the tags [HUMOR][/HUMOR] around sarcastic or otherwise hard to detect wit. or maybe I should just get funnier


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## captflood (Jan 1, 2011)

Greetings Earthlings, colour code everything on the stick ie. green to green and red to red. Insulation tape is great for this I also use a hole punch to mark and lable the tape as the pen will wash off with the weather. Photgraph everything top and bottom before you remove it and put all informaqtion is the boat book sizes and condition dates and location phone numbers of your suppliers oder numbers ectr. yoiu got the picture by now. Have a long bit of rope from the mast to guied it to the place where you whant it stored get a buddy to vidio the lot and remember to smile at the camra (mind the words you use I could be evidence at a latter date). 
(dont expect to get it right the first time) REMEMBER THE SEVEN Ps RULE ; PLANNING PREPERATION + PRACTICE PREVENTS PISS POOR PERFORMANCE.
GO SAFE AND ENJOY


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