# How much of a propane smell?



## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

When we use our stove/oven we get a slight aroma of propane in the air while it's going (the entire time). I'm assuming this is normal, but I just wanted to double check...?


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Labatt-

I don't think you should be getting the propane odor if the burner is working properly. Mercaptan, the odorant used in the propane, should burn off in the combustion of the propane. Smelling it at the initial start is normal, since some propane is probably escaping when you go to light the stove. I would check the connections in the stove and gas lines for a possible leak.


----------



## LoveAndLuck (Apr 19, 2007)

*Propane smell*

I am a live aboard and have been since March of 2007. While I am no authority, I think if you smell propane there could be a problem. They put in the smell for a reason. I talked with a person that was in our marina in Delaware recently that was a boat recovery person. He was headed to Norfolk (in mid-August) to work on an Endeavor 42 that exploded as the propane leaked into the boat and was ignited. The owner was badly burned. The next day I verified my outboard tanks worked properly, my shut-off solenoid worked and the tank compartment drain was not clogged.

I would verify all is ok.

Good luck does not happen by accident!

Bob Figgs
S/V Love and Luck (It's a Buffet song)


----------



## devildad (Oct 19, 2001)

If you can smell it and there is any flame or spark, get off the boat. I would check the entire gas line for any sign of stress. You should never smell anything when the flame is on.


----------



## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Use soapy water to check for leaks.

A hand-operated bilge pump, bellows type, is ideal for purging the bilge of gases.

A gas detector is not expensive.


----------



## Northeaster (Jan 13, 2007)

I have used my burners often, this summer, with no smell.
I have also used the oven, 2-3 times, and there has been a little propane odor (or some type of heat odor) for the entire 20-30minutes that the oven was on. If this was not normal, and I did have a leak in the oven burner hose, for example, I would certainly think that it would have caught fire / burned up the leaking propane during the 30 minutes that the real burner flame was on?????

I am not talking about smelling a strong p[ropane odor in the oven, but never having used a propane oven before I thought there must be a slight smell, due to heating the confined space of the oven, or something like that.

To others - please have your own checked and don't rely on my logic, as I would not want someone to blow up, because I said mine did the same thing!!

I know my solenoid works fine, as I have tried shutting it off while using the burners, and my tank is in an approved container in the cockpit.


----------



## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

labatt,
Our 3-burner LPG stove with oven, never emits the smell one typically detects when opening the valve of an untapped cylinder. As was mentioned, a very slight odor may exist for a second or two before igniting the burner - but VERY slight. During use, no smell should exist.

Similarly with our LPG, on demand hot water heater - no odors. In addition to typical solenoid switches at the valves in exterior tank lockers, ABYC codes require all appliances (and separate burners) to have integrated safety shutoff devices on gas lines, engineered to cut off gas flow if no flame exists. Electronic ignitors are also required - no open pilot flames are allowed. 

It may be possible that one of your burner's safety valves is defective, therefore it emits gas when another is in use.

A propane sniffer is also a smart accessory - which should send an alarm if propane is detected in the bilge areas - where a leak would allow it to migrate to - being heavier than air.

I would suspect you have a leak at an appliance, fitting or tubing line.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Chris,
I agree with the comments above, once it's lit you should not smell propane at all. I would not use the unit until you find the leak!


----------



## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

Figures... we're leaving today for 6 days off on the boat...


----------



## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Could be something as simple as a burner valve not closing properly. See if an odor is present from one of the off burners, while another is lit.


----------



## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

After reading this, I am getting a propane detector.

I did a quick search at Defender and the Propane Detectors all seem to be 12V.
Does anybody know of a 9v Propane Detector similiar to a home smoke detector?


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I don't know about the nine volt ones, but I found out when I installed propane detectors this summer that they can be triggered by lots of things besides propane, i.e.: battery gassing, gasoline, propane, butane, some cleaning products... might want to keep thins in mind when you are locating it.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

labatt said:


> Figures... we're leaving today for 6 days off on the boat...


Hey... that's six days in which to find and fix the leak. 


Sailormann said:


> I don't know about the nine volt ones, but I found out when I installed propane detectors this summer that they can be triggered by lots of things besides propane, i.e.: battery gassing, gasoline, propane, butane, some cleaning products... might want to keep thins in mind when you are locating it.


I don't mind them detecting gasoline, butane or hydrogen...


----------



## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

IMHO any boat with a propane system should be required to have a sniffer. I wouldn't feel comfortable on a boat without one. They are easy to install and hook up, and not that expensive. If you have ever seen the videos (sorry, didn't have time to look up a link) of boats blowing up from propane I'm sure you will feel the same way. Propane is probably the most dangerous thing you can have on a boat as it is heavier than air and will build up in the bilge or any low spot, and ignites with the smallest spark. We leave our sniffer circuit breaker on all the time, so that when we first get to the boat and turn the battery switch on the sniffer comes on before we do anything else. It would probably be better to have the sniffer connected to the battery all the time so we don't have to touch the battery switch, still debating the pros and cons of this.


----------



## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Soap and water, as suggested. You will see it bubble where there is a leak. Just back-track it and it will not be that big of a deal. If you have problems, let us know here. I have back'tracked them before.

- CD


----------



## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

I had to change over from tank 1 to tank 2 two weeks ago. When I did, I noticed that the pigtail started to leak at the fitting conected to the regulator. I closed the tank immediately. Last night I replaced the pigtail and did the soap and water test. It checked out.

But, how do you get at the fitting and hoses to check the connections at the appliance? 

We have a two burner stove and oven. I loose sight of the supply hose after it leaves the propane locker. I imagine it runs through the lazzerette, than into the cabin and behind the stove.

Do you soap and water the whole supply hose? Just the fittings?


----------



## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Just the fittings would be suspect tj - and I would assume a continuous length from either your solenoid or manifold (splits the line in two in your case), up to the intake fitting of your stove.

We have original copper tubing for gas lines throughout the boat, with brass compression fittings at splitters, appliances and cocks. There is rubber hose at the tank locker and where connected to the rear of the stove - of course to enable flexibility in removing both tanks and stove unit.

I slid the stove unit out earlier this year, to retrieve a knife which had fallen behind it. I checked all connections while doing so with soap & water, just as a precaution, in case anything loosened.

The stovetop has ridgid pipe leading to each cast aluminum burner component, each of which I had also checked . . . no leaks.

This is the readout panel of the propane detector, installed on my boat presumably by a prior owner:


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Sailor-

Most of the appliances have a top plate that can be unbolted, allowing you pretty good access to all of the fittings and hoses. As TB pointed out, the run from the solenoid valve to the stove should be a single continuous run of uninterrupted hose or pipe... preferably hose, since the pipe is subject to corrosion and vibration induced fatigue.



sailortjk1 said:


> I had to change over from tank 1 to tank 2 two weeks ago. When I did, I noticed that the pigtail started to leak at the fitting conected to the regulator. I closed the tank immediately. Last night I replaced the pigtail and did the soap and water test. It checked out.
> 
> But, how do you get at the fitting and hoses to check the connections at the appliance? Unless you have a chafe problem, the hose itself should be fine... and the main points where chafe occurs are usually where it passes through a bulkhead. These points should have the hose protected from chafe by a grommet or some other similar device.
> 
> ...


----------



## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

I wonder if these things are any good... http://www.tpi-store.com/product.php/tpi/725/?product=110410&category=443 or http://www.amazon.com/Portable-Handheld-Gas-Detector/dp/B000B8WKVI


----------



## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

labatt said:


> I wonder if these things are any good... http://www.tpi-store.com/product.php/tpi/725/?product=110410&category=443 or http://www.amazon.com/Portable-Handheld-Gas-Detector/dp/B000B8WKVI


That looks like a good start.
I am going to look into a complete system this off season, but that little hand held looks like it might be able to be used as a temporary.


----------



## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

A handheld is good for detecting leaks BEFORE igniting a burner - but, doesn't do much good during the 8 hours your familiy's asleep on board.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Chris,
They look like they might help in finding the leak but not for monitoring for the presence of propane.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

What is the best location for a propane detector sensor? In the tank locker, near the oven, control panel etc?


----------



## jim colbert (Apr 7, 2006)

*much of a propane smell*

If you install a gage right at the tank, then close the valve at the tank. You can over time (12 hours) deturman if the system is leaking.


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Where is a good place or the best place to install a propane locker ? I have a rail stern mount for one tank.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Freesail99,
I have a tank locker in the cockpit. I was wondering where you route the sensor to from a detector?


----------



## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

I read somehwere you don't want the detector to close to the source, or you get to many false readings.


----------



## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Teshannon- we have two sensors, one is in the engine compartment/bilge and the other is in an empty space beneath the galley stove. You want to locate them as low as possible and below the appliances that use propane.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks all for your input, much appreciated.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

teshannon said:


> What is the best location for a propane detector sensor? In the tank locker, near the oven, control panel etc?


Generally, low in the cabin, but not near the oven, since lighting the oven generally releases a tiny bit of unburned propane. The real purpose of a propane detector is to warn you when levels of propane are building in the cabin or bilge of the boat... rather than to detect a leak per se.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sailingdog,
Thanks. It sounds like the bilge near the stove is the ideal place.


----------



## bushrat (Aug 24, 2007)

You can get strong odors called the "heavy ends" when you are near the end of a cylinder. You have a concentration of mercapten and other contaminates like moisture dirt etc. which you will smell in combustion. Were you at the end of a cylinder?


----------



## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

After much reflection (and smelling and second opinions) we don't think it is raw propane we're smelling. It's got a very similar smell, but is a bit sweeter. We're almost out on the tank, so perhaps bushrat's idea is correct.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

It would still be wise to check the system for leaks. Of course, if you're pretty sure it is the end of the tank causing the odor, you could try operating the stove from a full tank.  If you don't get the smell with a full tank, it is probably the end-of-the-tank issue that bushrat mentioned. 



labatt said:


> After much reflection (and smelling and second opinions) we don't think it is raw propane we're smelling. It's got a very similar smell, but is a bit sweeter. We're almost out on the tank, so perhaps bushrat's idea is correct.


----------



## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

We'll still be doing the trace.. better safe than sorry...


----------

