# Getting Her use to sailing



## dave.verry (Apr 5, 2006)

The admiral and I went out sailing on a lake this weekend with very good winds  (15 knots gusting to 25) but lousy weather (rain, reduced visibility, cool)  . We just got the boat (26’ Chrysler) last fall after not having one all of our married lives (20 years). After a summer of poor wind and too hot temperatures I was excited to actually have a day with good wind and would have gone sailing if it were in the 30s (it was in the low 60s). After about 30 minutes she let me know she was uncomfortable with the conditions, stability of the boat, gusty winds, rain, and wanted to return to the slip, i.e. she was scared (actually she was very uncertain with the conditions before we left the slip, and told me so). I have sailed in much worse and on much smaller boats, but her experience is limited and long ago (10 years +). I tried to talk her into staying, even reefing the main to try and reduce the heeling of the boat, but not wanting to sour her on the whole sailing experience I soon relented and returned. She is a good mate and handled her portion of the docking procedures and boat decommissioning chores easily and without complaint, even in the rain.

If it where one of my sons, I would have laughed and put on more sail.  I would have let them work through their fear on the boat and let them see that the boat and they could handle the situation. But this was the Admiral. The last thing I want to do is to have her scared of going out in the boat.

Did I do the right thing in returning?  If the weather was clear and the visibility good she probably would not have been as nervous. Do I wait to get her use to the action of this particular boat in fair weather before I try it again in rain, or do I plow on as I would with one of my sons, and let her find out that she and the boat can handle the conditions?

I invite opinions, especially from those of the female persuasion, please.


----------



## astraeus (Jan 30, 2006)

Welcome Chrysler owner, I have a 1980. I agree with returning to the dock, I am struggling with getting my wife used to the heel and stability of our boat as well. You want her to come back! With her previous experience, you should be able to get her "used" to it again. In hind sight, maybe reefing before you left as she was already uncomfortable, this may have eased her into the conditions that you were sailing in.


----------



## FrankLanger (Dec 27, 2005)

There are books written on how to help a partner become comfortable and enjoy sailing. I am not of "female persuasion", so you may get better advice from the ladies on this site. 

But in my 15 years of experience owning 3 different boats, I have learned to ALWAYS respect and listen to my wifes wishes on board (except where an immediate decision on safety is needed, when as the captain I reserve the right to manage the boat). The one time I suggested we stay out a little longer after she thought we should return to the dock (last sailing day before leaving the boat for a month, and it's so hard to leave the boat....), my wife lost her balance when a large wave hit, fell and bruised her arm quite badly--I learned my lesson!   

I try to choose good sailing days (so you might have waited for a warmer/sunnier day with lighter winds til she is more comfortable with the boat). I have also learned to work with my wife as sailing "partner" rather than as crew/go-fer. I also try to ensure we share tasks ie. doing what I can to make her day on the water as pleasant as possible as well, and minimizing the "work" aspect of preparations and sailing.

My wife now likes taking the helm sometimes, but other times she doesn't want to--I don't understand yet what determines that (I always love being on the helm!), so I offer, and respond accordingly. I also bite my tongue alot regarding "sail trim" and have to remind myself that I have more sailing experience/"feel for the boat"; as long as everything is generally all right, I overlook a sagging telltale or trim problem. 

We also try to alternate with time on the boat and doing other things--even though it almost kills me to go for a walk or other activity when the sun/wind are "just right" for a great evening sail.

Finally, about your idea of adding more sail or similar steps to show what the boat can do...I think this idea has merit, but ONLY after explaining carefully that you are doing this for a short while, and describing all the controls you have available to make the necessary adjustments to manage it if it gets overpowered--e.g. lowering the traveller, adding backstay, boomvang, releasing sheets, rounding up, etc., so she and others are sure they won't capsize or worse. And even then, I would only do it on a nice day, when all has gone well, everyone is in a good mood, and again in somewhat moderate conditions when you are sure of what you and the boat are doing--and then only with everyone's permission. Then showing how lowering the traveller reduces heel, or furling the headsail restores equilibrium can be effective in showing that there are ways to manage when the wind or waves increase.

I'm sure others also have better ideas, and most of us would do the things I've described anyways. However, I would be interested in what others have to say about this important topic.

Frank.


----------



## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

No question - easy does it is the ticket here. We learned to sail in a famously heavy air area, fortunately no big seas, but daily breezes to 20+K were routine. My wife was a nervous nelly to start, and I can't recall how many times we nosed out of the marina only to turn around and try again later. It was occasionally frustrating.

However we (she) persevered and today, 20+ years later she is a good sailor, able to help and comfortable in all conditions except extremes. Interestingly her upwind "extreme" is around 25K or more her downwind "extreme" kicks in around 15 - 20 apparent. Heeling no longer bothers her at all. She would rather beat all day in 20 knots than sail downwind in the same breeze. (could have something to do with setting the kite in a race in '93, fumbling the hoist in a gust and putting the masthead in the water while she and her friend were in the water as well. Fortunately the boat essentially stopped and we were able to retrieve the women before salvaging what was left of the spinnaker and righting the boat. - Oh yeah - I'd overridden her request/decision not to fly the chute.....)

The more involved they are in handling and working the boat the more they will understand all the forces, controls and issues involved. It pains me to see cruisers approach a mooring, seeing the skipper struggle with the conditions, and when he finally succeeds, only then do the spouse and children pile out of the cabin ready to play.

Education, practice, time, and especially patience will pay off in spades.


----------



## jswwrites (Sep 4, 2006)

Here's one from the female persuasion... I grew up sailing, so love heeling, etc. However, a lot of women a) like control, b) don't like to feel OUT of control, and c) feel physically insecure in ways men don't even think about (not to mention the "if I get hurt, who's going to cook, clean, shop, etc, train of thought). If your wife isn't a good swimmer, I'd do some things to help her feel more comfortable with the off-chance of falling in. I'm in NC, too, and the water from May or June through October is great! Even something non-sailing like tubing or something a little crazy but safe might help her feel like the world will not end if she hits the water. Also teach her that it's sometimes safer to LET GO than to try to hold on too long!

Another thought would be to do some racing, if she's competitive. A lot of newbies will overlook conditions/heeling that might otherwise give them pause when they're concentrating on passing the next boat. Esp if there's a fun group around (think water balloon cannons and the like), the racing community can be a fun way to get comfortable.

Finally, I'd do as much light sailing and anchoring and grilling and swimming as possible. The more she feels the boat is "home", the more she'll be happy to plan picnics and spend time and even get wet and cold. And make sure there's a place to go to the bathroom that's private!!! (This is very big for us female types!) Make tee shirts that say "No More 'While You're Down There!" so she doesn't get stuck getting everyone drinks or snacks when she does use the head, too...

My two cents!


----------



## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

Another female voice here ... I agree with jswwrites that control, knowledge, understanding what's going to happen next, is important (maybe not to all women, I can't speak for your wife, but for ME!)

If it were me:
No macho "work thru your fear" games. Knowledge is a much better way to fight fear. Go out on a pleasant (warm, clear) lighter air day, more like 10-15, not gusty (those sudden shifts). Go thru all points of sail, to learn that you heel when close-hauled and it almost feels like you're standing still going downwind. Then reef and do it all again. Yeah, I know, you're undercanvassed but the point is to see how depowering the boat can mitigate scary circumstances when the weather is big. 

Share the helm, share the chores. You want to be equal partners in this.

Then go to a nearby bar, buy her a beer, and really LISTEN to what she says.


----------



## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Thank you for that post eryka, I have forwarded it to my afraid-of-heeling, but ocean loving wife.


----------



## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Here's a point worth making, I think....

I've known couples where SHE was the gung-ho, rail-in-the-water, give 'em hell sailor and HE was the 'fraidycat. So it doesn't just go one way. All the same strategies will need to be applied to bring whoever it is who is uncomfortable with the situation around to some kind of comfort zone.

Also there are couples that as a team are very tentative sailors, who motor whenever the breeze exceeds their personal limits, or simply turn around and go back. Their potential problem is going to be one day they will be caught in an unexpected blow and perhaps come to harm from inexperience or fear (or unnecessarily tax our Search and Rescue services)

At the end of the day we should all be enjoying what we do - different people find different things and circumstances "enjoyable". And we can learn to deal with things that once frightened us.


----------



## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

you _could_ lose your glasses... ref: "her first time"


----------



## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> Thank you for that post eryka, I have forwarded it to my afraid-of-heeling, but ocean loving wife.


You're very welcome, TrueBlue. Unfortunately I doubt you'll get a chance to do anything of the sort this year - is the season already closed down there in New England?


----------



## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

*Tame*

As a female sailor, here is my two cents worth, OK 1 1/2 cents. First I agree with the other lady sailors here. 
I take out first time woman on my boat all the time. My goal is for enjoyment to be had by all. As skipper when someone is not happy I am not doing my job. Not good for me or the sport. So how do I get them to return. First, I have little food and drinks depending on the time of day when they come on board. I call it Pre-departure welcome aboard!. I use this time to get everyone familiar with the boat. I explain how the boat works and what to expect when we sail. I explain the heel motion of a boat with the fat boy on the teeder-totter routine found on kids playground with the keel being the fat boy. Do this before you leave the dock and not on the water. Also do my safety brief during this time. Depending on the winds I will under canvas the boat if beating into the wind to keep the heel down until everyone is comfortable. I like to run downwind the first 15 minutes so everyone gets comfortable with the motion of the boat. I will give everyone a duty on the boat so they feel involved with the operation of the boat. Sailing for newbies is like a first date. First impressions is important. Don't blow it on the first date if you expect a second date! If someone is having a problem with any heel or motion sickness I put them in the stern rail seats (if your boat has them). If someone is really not having a good time, I will heave-to for a little while, once again getting the used to being on the water. We just talk, listen to music anything to get their mind off the boat per-se! 
Just my 1 1/2 cents worth

Melissa


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I agree with my female colleagues' ideas on this thread so far. Here's one other suggestion from a woman - encourage her to take a basic sailing class WITHOUT YOU, and with a female instructor. Besides women's fears, there's also the issue of shame - and I have never met a man that didn't make women feel bad about what they can't do or don't know on a boat (even if you're wonderful, caring men on land!!!) If she can learn a bit more about how the boat works, and basic safety ideas, she'll be more comfortable. This is what I did, and I enjoyed it so much, I took two more sailing classes and sail on my own all the time now!


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The idea of having her take a sailing class, preferably with a female instructor is one I'd advocate as well. I think it is very key that both partners in a relationship have near equal competence in boat handling. 

Sailing as a couple is often, effectively, sailing singlehanded for long stretches at a time, as the other will be down below, cooking, sleeping, etc. If either is not capable of single handing the boat, what happens if the more capable partner falls in, in stormy conditions... think about it.


----------



## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

*A revelation*

I have to agree with the last two posts, especially where it concerns a wife or significant other. I taught my wife to swim and it was not pretty. If she ever decides to scuba dive, I will not be the instructor. And I may send her for sailing lessons. A marriage is a delicate thing and my desire to sail the boat in a certain way can easily be perceived as a "control" issue. When I was master, the crew did as I commanded. When I sailed below master, I did as I was commanded. This issue really does not come up on a merchant ship. By having her take sailing lessons from someone else, she can bring her own knowledge to our boat, my "commands" will make more sense, and disagreements will be over the efficacy of a certain issue and not, "because I said so!" I'd really like her to be an equal partner in this. When I say, "duck" it's not a control issue-I don't want her to get beaned by that boom coming across. If she can learn the ropes, without the stress it might impart to our relationship, from someone else, it might be easier in the long run. Good thread.

Guy


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

> When I say, "duck" it's not a control issue-I don't want her to get beaned by that boom coming across. If she can learn the ropes, without the stress it might impart to our relationship, from someone else, it might be easier in the long run. Good thread.


Well said... LOL


----------



## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> ... my desire to sail the boat in a certain way ... my "commands" will make more sense ...
> Guy


Guy - I'm deliberately taking these 2 phrases of your post out of context becuase they're like red flags to me. I see where she could object!

Using your "command voice" is appropriate in a safety context (of course) or if you are in a race where you have to sail the boat as taut as possible to win, for example ... the tensest fights I've witnessed are when one person thinks s/he is in command and the goal is to sail as well as possible, and the other thinks this is a mellow sloppy Saturday afternoon cruise "and who the h*** does he think he is ordering me around anyway?"

I think another way to make sure the S.O. who's less of a sailor gets into sailing is to make sure each of you understands the expectations of what the trip will be (taut race or bay-play, etc) before you leave the dock.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Wise and good points as usual Eryka.


----------



## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

Thanx Sailingdog, but this one came from experience. We never had this problem when we sailed in Lake Michigan, but now that we've moved to Annapolis and my husband teaches sailing at the Naval Academy, I sometimes have to remind him that he's treating me like one of his midshipmen: "Hey, sweetie, _I'm_ not wearing navy blue!"

It's a friendly joke between us and not really a battle, we're both the type who enjoy analyzing, and optimizing, our boat's performance. We don't race per se ... except any time there's another monohull going in approximately the same direction we are ... ;-)


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

One of these day's you'll have a navy blue outfit on, and Dan'll get you by saying that you actually are.  

True... anytime you have two sailboats headed in the same direction you have a race...informal or not...no sailor likes to have another sailboat pass them. Of course, this year, we only had one sailboat catch us, and that was a bigger trimaran....we ran everything else we came up against into the ground.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I've always found that before you leave the dock, explain what it's going to be like out there under current condition (to the Admiral or Newbee). Explain that with this wind it will be noisy, things will happen fast, movement will be in every direction, spray will be everywhere, more strength will be required and choas can be fun.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

As a female learning to sail, I never had that problem.  Especially since it was my idea to get the boat... but to get my bf used to it, and I'm a bad teacher anyway, we went out, I gave him a basic rundown, and went below and let him play around. I picked a sunny day, with light winds, so it wasn't scary for him. The first time we went out he was ready to jump off because of a little heel, now its me telling him to ease off a little! 



If you let it become her boat too, she'll enjoy it much more!!


----------



## CaptKermie (Nov 24, 2006)

I like this thread and will add my two cents worth. My wife is an active participant and being at the helm really gives her a sense of being in control. When we first started sailing on our newly aquired sailboat, I already had previous experience so I needed my wife to steer while I hoisted the sails and maintained the trim, she was fine with this and we started our aventure as a team. Later I taught her sail trim and once she was in control of the mainsail she was not afraid to take it over 25-30 degrees on the inclinometer. Funny, when I did it she freaked. On the days when it was blowing 25+ knots and she was uncomfortable, at her request I turned around and headed back to the slip. It took us two days of repeated attempts to get out for our vacation sail during the high winds but we finally made it. One thing was made clear, she told me later that she appreciated my respect for her wishes to return and that I gained her trust so that in future she would always go out knowing that if she got uncomfortable with conditions that I would return to safe harbour. Having my wifes trust is what makes us a good team and we will enjoy many years of sailing because of it. Never make the mistake of having your wife regret being out with you and not being able to trust you, it will cost you in the end. There is a book we plan to buy called "It's your boat too" a womens guide to sailing, can't wait to read it. My wife also participates in decorating the boat, she picks the curtains, pillows, comforter, dishes, cutlery, galley & head accessories all kinds of stuff. I mostly choose the electronics although she was adamant about the WHAM remote for the VHF. I just got a Raymarine ST4000 MkII plus autohelm for myself and it turned out to be for her, she no longer has to helm as much and can lay back, she loves it. Count yourself extremely lucky if you have a wife who enjoys sailing as much as you do, they are few and far between and never be so stupid as to jeapordize her trust in you while out there. Learned from personal experience.


----------



## pigslo (Nov 22, 2004)

This has never been an issue for me as my wife has an engineering degree with a minor in physics. She can generally figure out was is going on on the boat before I need to explain.


----------



## locrian13 (Feb 5, 2002)

*Good advice so far*

My husband has been sailing forever...I only started when I met him. He bought a sailboat about two months after we started dating, so it was either learn to sail or spend a lot of time alone.

I spent that first summer on the water slightly sick to my stomach. Keep on truckin', right? I kept on, and I'm glad I did. First of all, I am proud of myself. Second of all, I have earned a reputation as a 'trooper'. 

I learned a lot about the boat and I learned a lot about sailing. I would say I'm fairly intelligent, but I definitely do not have a mechanical/spatial/engineering-type brain. We found out that he thinks differently than I do (he's one of those mechanical/spatial/engineering-types), so when he explains things, he explains them in ways that makes perfect sense to him...but not to me. Once we figured that out, life was much easier!

My advice to you: keep encouraging (not nagging, yelling at, or belittling) your wife (it sounds like you've done that so far!). Respect her fears and her misgivings. It's good for your wife to challenge herself, but she is the one who knows what is challenging and what is too much for her. The more she knows, the more comfortable she'll be. Be trustworthy.

My advice to your wife: Keep on truckin'! The more you know about the boat and how she works, the more comfortable you'll be. Read 'Sailing for Women' (or something like that) by Doris Colgate. It explains things in ways most women's brains work (some women are mechanical/spatial/engineering-types, but many are not). The boat is way more seaworthy than you are (if you have a good boat, that is), and she can take more than you can. The more you know about your boat, the more you will trust her and the more you will trust yourself. Trust your husband, and speak up if you are nervous or scared. He can either explain what is going on so you will not be nervous, or it will be time to head in. Either way is fine. Challenge your comfort zone, but do not ignore your gut.

Keep sailing! I think you'll be glad you did.


----------



## Livia (Jul 20, 2006)

One thing I think we are missing from the conversation is whether she loves sailing or whether she only kind of likes it and is doing it for you. 

If she loves sailing, perhaps you can find out what part of sailing she loves and work to find that type of experience more often.

If she kind of likes it and is doing it for you, perhaps turn about is fair play. What is something she loves to do, that you can play second fiddle for?


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Livia-

Any reason for reviving a dead thread???


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*mens health*

Hi.
Nice site bro.
viagra


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

birdysharp said:


> I gave him a basic rundown, and went below and let him play around.


Was she referring to sailing?


----------



## Livia (Jul 20, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Livia-
> 
> Any reason for reviving a dead thread???


Only my inability to read dates...I had no idea this one was so old! It was fairly high up in the queue on this part of the forum.

doh!


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Livia said:


> Only my inability to read dates...I had no idea this one was so old! It was fairly high up in the queue on this part of the forum.
> 
> doh!


Yeah, that happens to old threads when spammers revive them... there's a post a bit above yours touting a Viagra related site...which the moderators haven't killed. But moderation on this board has gone all but away since Cam resigned as a moderator.


----------

