# Sailing video bloggers getting a bit too dramatic?



## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

Saw where there was one in the Caribbean that sailed north back into the path of Irma - they lost the boat and then went to a fundme sight to get a new boat. 

Another one where they are repairing a Freedom 32 I believe - their boat just sank - they made an announcement on their FB page and then pimped a limited edition t-shirt - and promised a new dramatic video of what happened. While it might be perfectly innocent and through no fault of their own the boat sank - it just leaves you wondering a bit - are there too many video bloggers out there - you have to be more dramatic than the next guy to get people to watch and support?

Maybe chicks in bikini's and thongs are starting too saturate the market and and a new marketing ploy must be rolled out to keep the eyeballs. Possibly a sinking boat with lots of women in bikinis and thongs going down while boat is being circled by a shark.


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## dwedeking (Jan 28, 2007)

To some degree this is true of all mass media entertainment. It usually caters to the people that I label "the lowest common denominator" which I'm finding is becoming more common every day. There's only so much you can do with that though and I think the results for them is short term. Because they are just replaced by the next flash in the pan it looks ongoing but I don't think they last very long so not a long term plan to support a cruising lifestyle.


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## zipfactor (Jul 24, 2017)

Yeah, I agree. It's a pretty short term strategy. If the bloggers are smart they will use the attention that they get to try and sell some other type of good/service for a longer term income stream.

And yeah, it's a very saturated market. The whole "self-absorbed female with the camera pressed in their face the entire time" shtick is getting a little old. To that point, you'd have to have a smoking hot female with constant wardrobe malfunctions to compete these days it seems.

On that note, I've ran across a new sailing / traveling vlog that is putting a unique spin on things. Almost like Anthony Bourdain meets a sailing vlog. Search "Sailing the Sea Bear" on the tube if you're interested. Of course the views are next to nothing, probably due to the newness and the absence of T&A (refreshing in my opinion).


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## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

I prefer - "no bullsh*t just sailing" - dude on his Contessa 35 in the North Sea - too cold for bikinis, also " Tales from an old seadog" or something along those lines - older guy from Britain - no bikinis there either - although he might wish he a one or two.


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## dwedeking (Jan 28, 2007)

I enjoy sailing but I find "pure sailing" videos boring. I like the ones that are combinations of travel blogs with a mix of "this is how we do things on board" (provisioning, fixing things, issues they run into) and how the interaction between the people goes.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

cdy said:


> ...Another one where they are repairing a Freedom 32 I believe - their boat just sank - they made an announcement on their FB page and then pimped a limited edition t-shirt - and promised a new dramatic video of what happened......


Wicked Salty? I just happened to see the tease vid last night. I stopped watching their stuff, after their Bahamas cruise, but that does get one's attention. Nevertheless, I was annoyed that it was just a tease that tried to sell a t-shirt and promise details in the future. They discovered Patreon, et al, near the end of their cruise and it seems to be a needle in the arm now.

Those kids were not the most knowledgeable sailors, but I thought that was fine, as they were very young and on a huge learning adventure. I'm not sure they spend enough time becoming knowledgeable. We'll see what happened, which perhaps could have happened to any of us. I certainly don't wish it on them.


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

Let's see they left their thru hull open then a fitting/hose let go so they got water in their boat, then you see the girl talking to the insurance company. I don't feel sorry for that, I haven't given them money, but when I do give money it's not because I feel sorry for their mistakes, I give because the content is good and I like their story.

But I do say I think their shirt design is cool.

Bob


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## PaulBKal (Oct 6, 2017)

dwedeking said:


> I enjoy sailing but I find "pure sailing" videos boring. I like the ones that are combinations of travel blogs with a mix of "this is how we do things on board" (provisioning, fixing things, issues they run into) and how the interaction between the people goes.


The best of them all for mine is RAN Sailing. 
They know how to sail so you don't have these constant cringworthy cockups where we're supposed to feel sorry for these idiots who shouldn't be without adult supervision.
They are wonderful competent interesting adult Swedish humans who are nice people. 
Sure it helps they are reasonably photogenic, but they make interesting videos with great shots, a storyline and fabulous backing music. And their underwater shots of dolphins around the boat are awesome, and no one else seems to do them.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

I too liked Wicked Salty watching them make some mistakes along the way as they finally made their goal of reaching the Bahamas with a pretty bare boat that he paid for himself by taking two jobs including waiting tables. Have not checked on them since they got the bigger boat.

I find La Vagabound tedious and uninteresting and sometimes too silly. S/V DELOS is much more interesting to me and one of the few I look forward to watch as they post videos. I also throw them a few bucks every once in awhile.

I'm noticing a bunch of new videos being posted by newbies that I find a waste of my time. Some seem to put up the Pateron banner before they have even left the dock. I'll stick with S/V Delos and Drake Paragon videos to entertain me in the off season. I've no time for most of the new drama queens starting up.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

cdy said:


> Saw where there was one in the Caribbean that sailed north back into the path of Irma - they lost the boat and then went to a fundme sight to get a new boat.
> 
> Another one where they are repairing a Freedom 32 I believe - their boat just sank - they made an announcement on their FB page and then pimped a limited edition t-shirt - and promised a new dramatic video of what happened. While it might be perfectly innocent and through no fault of their own the boat sank - it just leaves you wondering a bit - are there too many video bloggers out there - you have to be more dramatic than the next guy to get people to watch and support?
> 
> Maybe chicks in bikini's and thongs are starting too saturate the market and and a new marketing ploy must be rolled out to keep the eyeballs. Possibly a sinking boat with lots of women in bikinis and thongs going down while boat is being circled by a shark.


I think that Wes and Kate (Wicked Salty) are good kids just trying to pursue their dream. I always liked their enthusiasm (even if many of their learnings were obvious to the rest of us). I enjoyed their videos with the old boat, and was looking forward to their new videos. I thinks it's absurd and cold-hearted to suggest that they sunk their boat on purpose to get clicks. Where's your sympathy for your fellow sailor? The T-shirt sale is a little tacky, but if I had lost my entire boat, along with the contents which likely were not fully insured, and had a following like they do, I probably would do the same thing they are. FYI, the guy operating the tender taking them out to their sinking vessel is a good friend from college. He owns the Merit 25 that they raced on the past couple of years while they were between boats.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> Wicked Salty? I just happened to see the tease vid last night. I stopped watching their stuff, after their Bahamas cruise, but that does get one's attention. Nevertheless, I was annoyed that it was just a tease that tried to sell a t-shirt and promise details in the future. They discovered Patreon, et al, near the end of their cruise and it seems to be a needle in the arm now.
> 
> Those kids were not the most knowledgeable sailors, but I thought that was fine, as they were very young and on a huge learning adventure. I'm not sure they spend enough time becoming knowledgeable. We'll see what happened, which perhaps could have happened to any of us. I certainly don't wish it on them.


Minnewaska:
I agree. I always gave Wicked Salty some slack as they learned the lessons of newbies which I think we can all relate too. After not following them for awhile I just checked into their channel again and was a little disappointed in them hawking their T shirts following their boats sinking. Having ones boat sink could happen to anyone of us. When I see it happen to others it always reminds me that it is sometimes the simple things that can sink a boat. Sometimes it's only a minute of forgetfulness. A valve not closed, a clamp not tightened etc... I contrasted their plight with the experienced Ocean sailor Eric Forsyth earlier this summer
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: ERIC FORSYTH: An Inexplicable Attraction
Who was just days away from starting another circum navigation of the north Atlantic. When a hose slipped off a head fitting on his boat Fiona. The boat sank at the slip and he and his friends went right to work and had things back to normal in about two weeks. Last I saw he had just left the Azores heading for Spain with the boat. His sunk boat did not stop him from making the cruise. He certainly did not stop to design and sell limited edition T-Shirts.


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

cdy said:


> lots of women in bikinis and thongs going down.


. I have to agree that the internet is saturated with videos like this. 🙄 (Sorry in advance for being so juvenile, but that phrase jumped off the page at me)


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I make the comment to many 20 something's that they should drop the big city rent and move aboard a small boat. I'm half hearted about it, because most have never sailed. I'm really just channeling what I wish I had done at their age. 

100% says something to the effect that they would never live in a house that could sink. It seems to be instinctive that one would go to any legnth to prevent this. Wouldn't it be obvious that one never leaves a single seacock open, when you leave your boat at a mooring, at least for any length of time?

I don't want to be harsh, nor bring the wrath of Poseidon upon my apparent hubris. Things can certainly break, despite ones best efforts. We've certainly all made a mistake and forgotten one, which only by luck or good fortune did we not find ourselves in the same place. I haven't heard exactly what happened.

I leave my air conditioning intakes open at the slip, although, I am on shore power and have two pumps and an alarm. Still, I seriously worry. 

I have no malice toward these kids. I hope they recover. It may have been unavoidable, we'll see. If they were in my marina, I'm sure I would help them. I'm not buying a t-shirt only because I'm afraid they are learning to get through life that way and it isn't likely to work.


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## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

I have sympathy for anyone losing or damaging their boat - my issue with their Youtube video was the pushing of a limited edition t-shirt and the teaser about an upcoming video showing what happened - to me it starts too look very scripted - and then my mind starts to wonder if it is a setup. I guess for them its about building a brand - which is fine, just getting a little too commercial for me.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"and promised a new dramatic video of what happened."
Clickbait SELLS. Fortunately, YoRube! still allows you to unsubscribe and thumb-down the stuff you don't like. Just think of it like the midway at a carnival: Everyone knows the games are rigged. Everyone knows the sights on the shooting range are bent and the pellets a bit deformed. But, that's the way the game is played.
Who is to say which is more ridiculous: A Picasso for $56 million that can be reproduced quite nicely for $500 by a starving Chinese art factory worker? Or a black velvet Elvis for $49.95 in the local secondhand store?

I guess the next step would be to totally stage a forged-and-scripted hoax channel of some kind. Complete with animatronic giant kraken attacking boat, or marauding polar bears on the ice floes.

"That's entertainment!"

(Oh, and PT Barnum wrote some excellent books on the subject.)


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I think you guys are definitely creating a damned if you do, damned if you don't world in this little thread. 

On the one hand, people moan about vloggers using Patreon and GoFundMe to get money for nothin' and chicks for free. Then when Wicked Salty puts the time, money, and effort into creating products that they are selling for a relatively fair price, creating an actual, physical transaction that you can take or leave (instead of "donations"), they're now "too commercial"? Eyeroll.

These vloggers are, through a lot of time and hard work, doing something extremely innovative and interesting - and most importantly fun. And they are making money from it - from those that get value out of those efforts. It's working.

Then, just as has been the case since Rebel Without a Cause, you have old guys in lawnchairs griping about kids these days...while secretly wishing they could do exactly what they're doing. A tale as old as time itself.


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## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

I watched their videos when they were on the first boat - a Ericson , thought is was fine, somewhat interesting - figured they returned home and on to real jobs for a while - but no it seems they just got another boat and asking for patrons to support the on going lifestyle - which is fine for some, not something I wish to donate to. Maybe this is a new career for some - sailing around asking for money - I can see it as a short term venture - take a year off and have an adventure - or more if you have the resources - maybe I am just old school - it looks a little too much like begging to me at some point - I understand that some have made their videos basically a commercial channel - not my thing, but others seem to enjoy it so I guess there is a market for it - I wonder when it reaches saturation point?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

The old model for "authors" (would-be writers or photogs) used to be, do your work, unpaid, then shop it around to every publisher (there used to be dozens) until someone paid you a nickel per word--just once and bought the exclusive rights worldwide in perpetuity. And if their readers sent in enough feedback, sometimes the editors would actually solicit your work and raise that to a dime a word with more generous terms.

Then in the 80's more folks started to make money telling authors how to self-publish with so-called desktop publishing. Then came the web and advertisers on blogs, and now?

So what? Instead of spending days crafting an article, or thousands of dollars on camera lenses and a darkroom, and speculating on whether someone might deign to buy your work (and keep most of the profit from it) the same would-be folks can speculate for themselves, throw anything against the wall and see if it sticks. And get instant and ongoing payments from the folks who like it and "buy" it, forever after. (Of course the publishers still make the lions' share from the ad revenue that THEY keep forever ater.)

But really, who cares? Folks want to create whatever they want, they post it freely...It is't like Gargoyle and other evil empires, that bombard you with their offerings. Don't like the show? Change the channel.

There have always been authors that readers don't follow. BFD.


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## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

There is no way I would want to do what they are doing - I would have 0 interest in videoing my on-board life or adventures. While my daysailing in Florida would bore people to tears - I do ride my moto in Colombia - the vistas and things I see would be much more interesting - but I have no interest in taking the time to shoot video of the ride - a few pics and and maybe a short video of a town square of about 15 seconds but that would be it. But then the younger generation is different - they video or take photos of their most mundane things in life and post on FB or Snapchap/instagram - and their friends seem to enjoy it.

And just to be transparent I do like:
Untie the lines - lots of time in Panama and some in Colombian waters - areas I know.
MJ sailing - over 500 days working on their boat in Indiantown Florida - yikes.
Adventures of an old Seadog - reminds me of a friend of mine.

Maybe I am just jealous - being in banking no one wants to see a video of my daily life. ( thank goodness for a very liberal vacation policy)


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## Dryfly19 (Oct 7, 2017)

I dont care if its entertaining, i just want it to be educational (like how history channel used to be). Wouldnt it be great if they posted a lengthy step by step video of something like replacing an engine. Anyone know if this exists?


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## PaulBKal (Oct 6, 2017)

Dryfly19 said:


> Wouldnt it be great if they posted a lengthy step by step video of something like replacing an engine. Anyone know if this exists?


RAN Sailing did videos of quite a few major changes = most recently were those on installing a water maker and replacing a built-in verticle fridge with an off the shelf 60 ltr Dometic involving a considerable rebuild. There have been a couple of others as well I think

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Dryfly19 said:


> I dont care if its entertaining, i just want it to be educational (like how history channel used to be). Wouldnt it be great if they posted a lengthy step by step video of something like replacing an engine. Anyone know if this exists?


Sail Life does very nice how to videos, mostly focused on refitting.

Good videos.

A good educational video about a topic or place I'm interested in, I enjoy.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Dryfly19 said:


> I dont care if its entertaining, i just want it to be educational (like how history channel used to be). Wouldnt it be great if they posted a lengthy step by step video of something like replacing an engine. Anyone know if this exists?


I was not doing videos at the time but, did document removing a Westerbeke W27 from my boat. Was much easier than I thought it would be: THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: Removing a Westerbeke diesel engine


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

1. Carefully wrap engine, including shaft and motor mounts, in 5/8" of fresh C4.
2. Insert primers every 8" on even spacing.
3. Attach detonator and pay out wire until at YC bar.
4. Detonate.

What's so hard about removing an old engine? Except, of course, convincing the guys at WalMart that you really are allowed to purchase C4. (And you don't even need marine grade for this job, any fresh C4 will do.)


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## Cigarmann (Sep 26, 2017)

I typically do not contribute to patreon or to fund me sites.....why should I fund the hedonistic adventures of people who chuck everything and go sailing. If and when I make that decision it will be when all life events conspire to allow me to do that, untethered from financial needs from begging. I do give to one vlog that has touched a nerve with me, "Vet Tails, Sailing Chuffed". This couple sails about and visits poor Central American countries offering free veterinary care. Truly worthy.


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## jppp (Jul 13, 2008)

Most of these VLOGS are free. You click on their channel on Youtube and watch. IF you are so inclined, go ahead and give them money. Either they will survive or not. No point in commenting on whether or not they should or shouldn't earn a living sailing around. Most do it for their own satisfaction. I've seen a few just disappear. Complaining about support of these shows is like complaining about most reality show "talent" getting paid to make duck calls. 
J


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

cdy said:


> I have sympathy for anyone losing or damaging their boat - my issue with their Youtube video was the pushing of a limited edition t-shirt and the teaser about an upcoming video showing what happened - to me it starts too look very scripted - and then my mind starts to wonder if it is a setup. I guess for them its about building a brand - which is fine, just getting a little too commercial for me.


+1. Well said. Their brand, however, is a little bit Gilligan's Island.

There are other channels that are much better. When they went commercial, commenting about a flaw is fair game in the marketplace.

I wonder what the demo is that supports WS. I think there original audience was heavily an older set that liked watching the kids take up the sport. It's when the kids checked out of a career and asked for money that it took on a different standard. The vid quality and editing in their Bahamas series was about the worst out there. Didn't matter until it was suggested it might be worth some cash.


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## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

One item that has made these videos much more interesting - that wasn't really available just a few years ago - drones with good video. Some great sailing shots that only 5 years ago would have to be done from a helicopter -

"No Bullsh*t, just sailing" videos have great shots of the guy's boat sailing the North Sea and shots of the coastline in Norway.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I would respectfully submit that the folks at Industrial Light & Magic, and a few other places, ought to get together and offer prize money for the first YoRube! videos to properly document:
1-The Green Flash
2-A Giant Kraken Attack
3-Cruisers falling off the edge of the flat earth
4-Polar bears, climbing aboard from an ice flow and attacking the entire crew
5-A military Phalanx gun in action, shooting down a swarm of more than 15 civilian drones in international waters.

And in each case, points can only be awarded if you can't find any stray pixels from a green screen or other magic. Additional categories and conditions welcome. Winner to get either a scholarship to UCLA or NYU film school, or a year's paid apprenticeship at IL&M if they've already graduated.

There's just SO much you can't find on YoRube!


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

The Kardashians, People Magazine, National Enquirer, The Bachelor .......... Sailing Blogs. 6 of 1, half dozen of the other.
Too busy living to be bothered watching how other people live.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

boatpoker said:


> The Kardashians, People Magazine, National Enquirer, The Bachelor .......... Sailing Blogs. 6 of 1, half dozen of the other.
> Too busy living to be bothered watching how other people live.


Your examples are all fake news, to coin a new phrase. Some vlogs are similar. However, others are as true to documenting an experience as National Geographic. Some time back, I specifically searched for some vlogs that documented their Panama Canal transit. They were very interesting and informative. I suppose it takes all kinds to satisfy all kinds.

I think never seeing or reading about other's adventures, learning experiences or stories is limiting one's own knowledge to only that which they live long enough to experience.


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> Your examples are all fake news, to coin a new phrase. Some vlogs are similar. However, others are as true to documenting an experience as National Geographic. Some time back, I specifically searched for some vlogs that documented their Panama Canal transit. They were very interesting and informative. I suppose it takes all kinds to satisfy all kinds.
> 
> I think never seeing or reading about other's adventures, learning experiences or stories is limiting one's own knowledge to only that which they live long enough to experience.


Perhaps, I just prefer real living to vicarious living


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

boatpoker said:


> Perhaps, I just prefer real living to vicarious living


I do too. However, I may never get the chance to transit the Panama Canal and am happy I was able to see what it's like.

I think there is a difference between never participating in an activity and only watching online, or sailing as we all do and supplementing that experience with those individual experiences we don't have enough days to complete for ourselves. It' not terribly unlike getting a formal university education. You read about what others have already experienced or figured out and you build upon it. Each person doesn't start from the beginning and ignore the input of those that have gone before them.


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## cap'ngrumpy (Jun 5, 2014)

I can only comment that people will still be reading Erik Hiscock and Hal Roth et al years from now when all this dreck is long forgotten


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

cap'ngrumpy said:


> I can only comment that people will still be reading Erik Hiscock and Hal Roth et al years from now when all this dreck is long forgotten


I think both will be around as long as the servers remain powered and/or digital storage remains cheap. Though printed books will increasingly end up in landfills as an archaic form of communication. Especially on boats where space is at a premium.


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## jwing (Jun 20, 2013)

If you have not yet discovered books in electronic form, I recommend that you do. The software that runs Kindle is frigging awesome. Makes reading far more enjoyable than it is with paper books.


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

Cigarmann said:


> I typically do not contribute to patreon or to fund me sites.....why should I fund the hedonistic adventures of people who chuck everything and go sailing. If and when I make that decision it will be when all life events conspire to allow me to do that, untethered from financial needs from begging. ...


I concur, which may make me an old cur, but it is what it is. There are so many people and places in the world the truly do need what financial help I can give. Folks who CHOOSE to live a certain lifestyle, usually devoid of the day-to-day personal responsibilities (and, dare I say it, productive work output for the greater good) that less selfish people tend to live, then ask others to pay for it.. well... let's say that not only are they on the absolute bottom of my list...the list is not even aware they exist.

I know--- I sound very judgemental. Just to be clear, if anything, I am very envious of folks who chuck it all and go see the world. Truly. I wish I could. I just couldn't, without a great deal of guilt following me everywhere. Just the way I was brought up. To any and all interested in doing that, I'm all for it. I just won't pay you to do it. If you can convince other folks (meaning, other than me) to give you money to go have your adventures, again, more power to you. If some folks WANT to give you money, good for them. It's all good with me. My money goes elsewhere, but bon voyage.

As an aside, and I'm going to be very oblique here but truthful, a young couple we know set up some kind of funding page for wedding guests and friends to help fund their honeymoon. The page had lots specific experiences and price tags on it, i.e., "A Picnic in the Scenic Blah Blah Park for Two! - $65," "One Night at Chateau LaFeetOdeur - $125," etc. I asked them if they'd really planned their honeymoon to that extent. Nope, they said.. it was just examples, and that they probably wouldn't actually do those exact things. How were the prices arrived at, then? Just something the website suggested they add. Hmm... so we weren't actually paying for those things, and the money wasn't going to those vendors? Right. Hmmm... very confused. How did they get the money? I didn't bother... just gave them a financial gift in person. Seemed more honest anyway. Normally, I don't like to give money as a gift; seems kind of impersonal and an easy way out, but I knew them well including their financial status, they really didn't want "things," sooo... there ya go. I was happy to do it. MUCH happier than I was going through ersatz depictions of things that wouldn't be on some bizarre website.

Get off my lawn.

Barry


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

boatpoker said:


> The Kardashians, People Magazine, National Enquirer, The Bachelor .......... Sailing Blogs. 6 of 1, half dozen of the other.
> Too busy living to be bothered watching how other people live.


I've heard OF the Kardashians, and I think would recognize them. Never read about them nor seen the show, nor the Bachelor, nor any other "reality" show. I probably COULD learn from them... about what NOT to do. Unfortunately, I'm already pretty good at that, and am trying to AVOID not doing stupid things, soooo..welll.. .I'm with you there.

I don't watch or follow any blogs, vlogs, YouTube channels, etc. Too busy living myself, I guess. When I do stumble upon the odd blog or video while trying to find some information about a current pursuit/problem/conundrum in which I've become embroiled, I'm grateful to see that folks have taken the time to post their experiences. Sometimes I might even watch a few of their videos or read other pages in the blogs. That's usually it. I do have one friend who's cruised down to the Bahamas and back a few times, and he and his wife created an online blog for their friends (and anyone else to follow). I enjoyed that, but mostly because I know them well. Even then, I failed to make the time to "follow" it.. mostly just checked in and read months at a time when I remembered. Yeah, I guess I'm a sucky friend. 

Speaking of living life, I've gotta get outta here. Sailnet really is the ONE place where I spend time online. I've wasted a lot of time here, but I've also learned an incredible amount and found some good people. It's worth it.

Best,

Barry


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

Barry
First I'm not defending them or judging your viewing habits.

This is art although some of the beggers might not even know it is....

Let's say I quit my day job(already have I'm retired) to start a sailing magazine, I get advertisers, writers, photographers, publishers... I bear all the costs with the hopes I can sell my new magazine on the newsstand. Really the same thing as youtubers....

How about I decide my lives mission is to paint I work hard and paint lots of paintings all on my dime, I go to an art show and try to sell my art, again you are supporting me.

going down a rat hole but what the heck....

I learn to fix your boat, I purchase all the tools, craft my skill.... you have something broke and need it fixed, I come fix it, you pay... simple same as youtube, except with youtube you don't have to pay if you don't want to.....

Just because someone doesn't do a (regular job) doesn't mean they are contributing to society.

I just think some of the youtubers need to figure out how to make money without begging. heck even PBS begs for money. Product placement, reviews, shopper links and a like should be more of a viable model.

Bob


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

It just occurred to me that my vlog watching occurs at night, for about 30 mins just before retiring to bed. That would cover 3-5 eposiodes of various things that interest me. If you dart out and take a sail during that hour, I'm impressed. I find the argument that one is doing, not watching, to be limited. I do both.

I usually am juggling a ton of different interests and activities. This is probably why I still like a hard covered book. It's lying on the end table, reminding me to get back to it, among many other thighs that take my time.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I'm the same. Son goes to bed about 9, gives me about an hour or so to mess around on YouTube, I do more editing than watching. There just aren't that many folks doing the type of small boat stuff I'm interested in. I think, watching of Youtube might account for an hour a week?

I still find time to sail two boats, work 4 days a week, raise a family, walk my dog, maintain a house and property, paddle my canoe, hike and build bonfires in the yard. 

YouTube videos are usually pretty short. 10-15 minutes. An hour of YouTube watching might represent 4 videos a week. The folks I enjoy watching just aren't putting out that many videos. If anything, I'd like to see more content.

I know men of my dad's generation definitely spent more than an hour a week watching baseball and hockey. Way more. I don't see any difference between watching a sport (sailing) on YouTube and watching a corporate sports team where players are making millions to smack a ball around.

My advice to folks who don't like watching YouTube, is to not watch it.


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

snokid said:


> Barry
> First I'm not defending them or judging your viewing habits.
> 
> This is art although some of the beggers might not even know it is....
> ...


No arguments with any of that, and thanks for the reply. My issues are with the GoFundMyEndlessSummerBecauseIDontWannaWork crowd.

My wife and I hold our own personal little fundraisers everyday... 'cept we call it "work."


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

bblument said:


> No arguments with any of that, and thanks for the reply. My issues are with the GoFundMyEndlessSummerBecauseIDontWannaWork crowd.
> 
> My wife and I hold our own personal little fundraisers everyday... 'cept we call it "work."


We have a winner.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

I'm with others like Arcb and Minnewaska. I watch some of these videos just before going to bed and then usually after the season has ended while at home with a good wifi connectivity. Though when my boat is in the water I usually retire to my bunk on board with a good read. To me I don't give up my life experiences just because I enjoy some of the Delos videos from time to time. I enjoy that they will sometimes sail to remote locations that most people including myself will probably never get to like Bassa Da India:




I don't have a TV at home but, some of the Delos underwater dives are like National Geographic substitutes and nicely done. That's why I'll throw them a few bucks from time to time. Still cheaper than going to a movie theater for one movie. They produce quality videos IMO compared to most of the others.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks Rick

Looks like you made a good choice with good important features. Our Walker Bay has a similar double constructed air floor with a diamond pattern. It does prevent and sliding when in it. D rings are important. Also filling it to proper pressure is important to the boats stability as well. We bought a 12 volt Scoprego air pump which has a long cord as well as alligator clips too. It’s easy to use it initially . Dinghy fills in less than 5 minutes. Has a pressure adjustment on it so me know it’s correct for the floor too. Also this allows us to periodically add air when it in the water if necessary as colder water shrinks the air inside. Our dinghy like yours is very portable and we store it inside in its bag at home in the winter. Like I previously said, easy to inflate and deflate for passages, but most of the time it just hangs in the davits, COVERED) , and when we leave with the stern down. 

After 10 years it still looks great so my wish of getting a RIB won’t happen soon. The detracting factor for me like you is it’s easy portability like the air floor, but by then it won’t need to be transported. 

Good for you finding a good deal. Having a dingy became a great changer for us using it. It no longer was a hassle towing or constantly lower it by halyard. We use our very frequently to just take a ride or go ashore as most places don’t have water taxis. We anchor anywhere knowing we can just hop in and get to shore

On trips it great to be able to resupply food or take moorings in the LI Sound or Newport and go into shore for dinner or to take Donna off the boat so she can stretch her legs and go shopping if she wants. 

I am sure it will last you a while as you take care of your equipment. Just buy a cover..lol. Taylor has good sales . When you are ready I can tell you how we customized it with the slits for the davit harneescto pop through ( can be done simply) . The cover is a key.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Hi Dave, thanks for your post. You might want to copy/paste this into the other thread. I'll delete this comment after you move yours.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

I haven't watched any of these videos, so don't know why I'm defending them, but...



bblument said:


> Folks who CHOOSE to live a certain lifestyle, usually devoid of the day-to-day personal responsibilities (and, dare I say it, productive work output for the greater good)


Entertainment is productive work output! Writers, comedians, even low-level video producers are making entertainment. Just because they're not cranking out widgets in a factory doesn't mean it's not productive work output.

You may not like their particular product, or their business model for distributing it, but it's still a product and a business model.

You are free to not buy or view their product if you don't like it, just like you are free to not buy company Y's widget if you don't like their product or their business model.



bblument said:


> Normally, I don't like to give money as a gift; seems kind of impersonal and an easy way out


I felt the same way, until I got married. Then I realized that, especially now that people are getting married later and are more likely to be merging two households tather than setting up one new one, a newly married couple needs money way more than they need things. Wedding are freaking expensive!

That website thing sounds weird though. A Benjamin or two in an envelope is the way to go.


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

Minnesail said:


> Entertainment is productive work output! Writers, comedians, even low-level video producers are making entertainment. Just because they're not cranking out widgets in a factory doesn't mean it's not productive work output.
> 
> You may not like their particular product, or their business model for distributing it, but it's still a product and a business model.
> 
> You are free to not buy or view their product if you don't like it, just like you are free to not buy company Y's widget if you don't like their product or their business model.


I think you misunderstood my post, or I wasn't clear enough. Both possibilities are equally probable. My issue isn't with bloggers/vloggers/youtubers/whatever charging a fee or asking for donations to view their product or "art," it's with the folks setting up a "GoFundMe" site, expecting others to donate to their lifestyle. If you like my (their) product, yes, pay for it. If you don't, don't. We're in agreement there.

I'm a musician, heavily entranced in the "entertainment" business. Yes, I'm a musical snob, no bones about it. There's "art," then there's the vast majority of "popular" music. I'd like to think that the music I create and market helps further the human condition and not detract from it. Unfortunately, a great deal of what sells IS just "entertainment," and not particularly productive. Yeah, I know... my opinion. No point in arguing about it. Hopefully, we're all still entitled to our opinion.

Even so, as you say, entertainment is a product, and those wishing to consume it should pay for it. Agreed. Not my point. My point is I don't want to subsidize someone's desire to live a lifestyle on someone else's dime, i.e., GoFundMyVacation.



Minnesail said:


> I felt the same way, until I got married. Then I realized that, especially now that people are getting married later and are more likely to be merging two households tather than setting up one new one, a newly married couple needs money way more than they need things. Wedding are freaking expensive!
> 
> That website thing sounds weird though. A Benjamin or two in an envelope is the way to go.


The quote-of-a-quote thing don't work so good; Minnesail's quote above was referencing my point regarding giving money as sort of an easy-way-out gift at weddings. Read the post for futher details; that's an oversimplification, but Minne understood it. (As an aside, Minnesail and Minnewaska need to find less similar nicks.. I get mixed up when I read their posts and incorrectly attribute their posts unless I'm fully alert).

Having said that.. weddings are NOT freaking expensive. Living up to society's expectations and media assertions of what a wedding "should" be is expensive. Wedding planners/coordinators, videographers, "Destination Weddings," "venues," all that stuff... it's a business and marketing. No need for any one of it, unless you want it. If you feel the need for a $20K wedding dress, an event planner, a $5K cake, etc., then yes, it's expensive. If you love someone and want to get married, but don't want to go into debt or put your family into debt, use your family minister/church, local VFW/firehall if your family doesn't have a big enough back yard, have a big ol' BBQ, and love each other. Everything else is just a choice. Yes, as a musician I've played a zillion weddings, and charge a lot for doing so unless I know the couple personally and am doing it as a friend. Again, you don't need me (and you CERTAINLY don't need a "Live DJ," whatever that is...) to get married... but hey, if you feel the need.. I'd be happy to play.. ...

I'm thrilled that people are still getting married.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

bblument said:


> I concur, which may make me an old cur, but it is what it is. There are so many people and places in the world the truly do need what financial help I can give. Folks who CHOOSE to live a certain lifestyle, usually devoid of the day-to-day personal responsibilities (and, dare I say it, productive work output for the greater good) that less selfish people tend to live, then ask others to pay for it.. well... let's say that not only are they on the absolute bottom of my list...the list is not even aware they exist.
> 
> I know--- I sound very judgemental...


When I first read your comment yesterday, I thought to myself, "hasn't this guy ever met a music or drama major?" So I'm really shocked to hear that you're actually a musician, after making these judgmental comments about fellow entertainers.

One thing I know: Making high quality, well edited videos that maintain people's attention is time consuming WORK - just like any type of professional level entertainment. It becomes a job. Good work deserves to be compensated, and in the new economy, starving artists are resorting to new funding mechanisms that deviate from what us old guys are used to. Most will fall flat on their faces and have to go find a real job. A very few who do it well, will make some modest income to sustain them, or at least cut into their losses a bit. I doubt that any of them are going to save up a healthy retirement with their earnings, just like....MOST MUSICIANS!!

If you don't like their product, don't watch...or at least watch and don't pay. The good ones will get enough to keep going, and the bad ones will eventually end up finding something else to do. Just like "productive workers" do.


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

TakeFive said:


> When I first read your comment yesterday, I thought to myself, "hasn't this guy ever met a music or drama major?" So I'm really shocked to hear that you're actually a musician, after making these judgmental comments about fellow entertainers......


Met them?!?!? I teach them and work with them every week. Again... read what I wrote carefully. My problem is not with people charging a fee for viewing their sites/blogs, nor with requesting donations if you like their work. My issue is with people who start GoFundMe sites with the attitude that somehow their desire to explore the world without having earned the means to do so gives them the right to expect others to subsidize their endless vacation.

If anyone can produce something that others would like to pay for, more power to them. Let me say it ONE MORE TIME.. I have NO issue with that. How much clearer can I be?

I'd like to sail around the world on a 44' Passport, but I dropped out of college because I couldn't stand the workload and schedule, and I hate it when other people tell me what to do. I'll have great experiences and learn a lot about other cultures. Please contribute to my adventure, because I'm awesome and really deserve this opportunity because, well, I'm me.

THAT'S what drives me crazy. OK?!?!?!? The increasing culture of entitlement really bugs me. I had a student today ask me to write down his assignment for him so he could take a picture of it, then the same kid asked me to scan a page of a copyrighted book that was a recommended class text that he didn't buy. Yeah, ...

GET OFF MY LAWN.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

bblument said:


> ...My issue is with people who start GoFundMe sites with the attitude that somehow their desire to explore the world without having earned the means to do so gives them the right to expect others to subsidize their endless vacation....THAT'S what drives me crazy. OK?!?!?!?


You have a right to go crazy over anything you want. If they don't pass the smell test, very few people will ante up. It does not bother me because I know that it is a self-correcting problem.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Well, if WS's goal with filming his boat sinking was to drive views, bump exposure and generate revenue, he may have been successful.

This morning I compared his current boat sinking video, posted 6 days ago around 115000 views (that's a lot) to his most recent video prior to that, 3 weeks ago, without a sinking boat is at about 38000 views. 

I don't know if his goal is producing art, creating entertainment or making money. For making money, at least in the short term, this should work.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

bblument said:


> ......(As an aside, Minnesail and Minnewaska need to find less similar nicks.. I get mixed up when I read their posts and incorrectly attribute their posts unless I'm fully alert)......


I know you're not alone. Hey, I was here first, I just forgot to copyright the nickname.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Arcb said:


> Well, if WS's goal with filming his boat sinking was to drive views, bump exposure and generate revenue, he may have been successful.
> 
> This morning I compared his current boat sinking video, posted 6 days ago around 115000 views (that's a lot) to his most recent video prior to that, 3 weeks ago, without a sinking boat is at about 38000 views.
> 
> I don't know if his goal is producing art, creating entertainment or making money. For making money, at least in the short term, this should work.


Excellent point. The old newpaper axiom, "if it bleeds it leads" People are innately drawn to tragedy. While weird, I think it's deeply driven by a subconscious survival instinct and wanting to assess and learn what to do differently.

Still, I am in the crowd that objects to what WS is doing. They are not selling a quality product, they are begging for money in order to avoid real life. If they had already learned a trade or experienced a career they could return to, after having saved enough to buy their boat, I would be fine with them taking a few years off. That's just my opinion and as someone said succinctly above, it will be self-correcting, if I'm right. I may or may not be.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I visited the s/v Delos Patreon page last night to see how they are doing. It's gone up dramatically, since I last visited. They now have subscriptions for $13k per video. Wow. I believe you can cap your monthly contribution, so I don't think that is their total take, if you multiply it by a weekly video release. Still it is mpressive.

More impressive were the levels:

700+ donors a $5/vid
160+ donors at $15/vid (you have to be at this level to be able to get a Delos t-shirt)
~200 donors at $25/vid

Now it starts getting amazing....

20 donors at $50/vid (this level is considered Sold Out, what a concept)
4 donors at $250/vid!! Holy moly. And they will only take one more for a max of 5!

These folks are in business. Most are just playing or begging.

They've also passed Sailing LaVagabonde, which is at $10k per vid. SLV used to be in the lead. I know that personally I stopped watching when they got their new boat, not because of it, but because the nature of the videos and interest in the location changed. The Med is old news. Delos is in Rio De Jenero now, with what looks like a stop at Ascention Island. That's interesting.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

bblument said:


> As an aside, Minnesail and Minnewaska need to find less similar nicks.. I get mixed up when I read their posts and incorrectly attribute their posts unless I'm fully alert


Yes, I wish I had lurked here a bit longer before I signed up so I wouldn't have picked a name so similar to two of the most knowledgeable and prolific posters (Minnewaska and Mainesail).

In my defense, I live near Minnehaha Falls in the Minnehaha neighborhood of Minneapolis in Minnesota and I took my first keelboat lessons on Lake Minnetonka. Minne / Mni is the Dakota word for water and it just seemed to fit.

Anyway. Some people are producing low-quality entertainment, basically really bad travel journalism. This is not new! Getting upset about it seems silly.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Minnesail said:


> Yes, I wish I had lurked here a bit longer before I signed up so I wouldn't have picked a name so similar to two of the most knowledgeable and prolific posters (Minnewaska and Mainesail)...


The admins can change your username without killing off your message history. Contact them if you want to.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

TakeFive said:


> The admins can change your username without killing off your message history. Contact them if you want to.


Don't want to; I use the same name on several forums.

Minnewaska and I both list our boats in our signatures, I think most people can tell the difference between 22' and 54'


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Upon further research, while SLV fell behind SVDELOS in Patreon, SLV actually has a single $1000 per episode donor. 

Would you take that money from someone you don't know? Why are they overpaying? Will they expect something more? I wonder if they were previously familiar or if there is a commercial angle to the donation. Without more info, it seems creepy.


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

To the Fabulous Flying Minne Brothers...

I was just being silly. Don't go changing... to try and please me... don't change the color of your hair...


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Minnewaska said:


> Upon further research, while SLV fell behind SVDELOS in Patreon, SLV actually has a single $1000 per episode donor.
> 
> Would you take that money from someone you don't know? Why are they overpaying? Will they expect something more? I wonder if they were previously familiar or if there is a commercial angle to the donation. Without more info, it seems creepy.


Could it be one of their parents or something?


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Kind of like the bartender who puts his own $10 bill in the glass tip jar?


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Minnewaska said:


> I visited the s/v Delos Patreon page last night to see how they are doing. It's gone up dramatically, since I last visited. They now have subscriptions for $13k per video. Wow. I believe you can cap your monthly contribution, so I don't think that is their total take, if you multiply it by a weekly video release. Still it is mpressive.
> 
> More impressive were the levels:
> 
> ...


Interesting stats. Even with the cash coming in Delos folks are somewhat frugal. I remember when they were in the Philippines and discovered some rigging issues. They decided to replace the eleven year old rigging before they would cross the Indian Ocean. They got some prices then decided to do it themselves to save some money. Made for an interesting video as they replaced the stays one by one. 
They may also have other revenue coming in such as mine. I don't donate to them via Pateron but, threw them a twenty a few months ago. Got a nice thank you email. Followed up a month or two later saying my contribution had been used to to take some locals they had made friends with out for some beers in Brazil. Showed me they do appreciate their supporters and not just deposit the cash. Also makes me feel I am helping the world economy via them in a small way.

I don't know what the attraction of La Vagabond is. Other than the doey eyed gal modeling her hats and swim suit collection. They even have an on board video editor now. At least the Delos crew do their own editing doing the tedious work of producing the videos themselves.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Minnesail said:


> Could it be one of their parents or something?


It could be, but if I was going to game the system, I think stacking more numbers into a smaller level would work better. No one is going to go for a grand. Their $1k Patreon level says they will recognize this donor at the end of every vid, while the donation lasts. I will have to take a look.

When this first hit the scene, I remember supporters of the idea would argue that it was less than you might spend on a movie. It seems many folks are donating well more than that now. Truly amazing evolution. Fascinating to see it develop before our eyes.

Edit. I just took a look at the last three vids published by SLV and immediately forwarded to the end. Nothing there. Their Patreon page still says they will do this and one was published today. Has scam written all over it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

mbianka said:


> Interesting stats. Even with the cash coming in Delos folks are somewhat frugal. I remember when they were in the Philippines and discovered some rigging issues. They decided to replace the eleven year old rigging before they would cross the Indian Ocean. They got some prices then decided to do it themselves to save some money. Made for an interesting video as they replaced the stays one by one.
> They may also have other revenue coming in such as mine. I don't donate to them via Pateron but, threw them a twenty a few months ago. Got a nice thank you email. Followed up a month or two later saying my contribution had been used to to take some locals they had made friends with out for some beers in Brazil. Showed me they do appreciate their supporters and not just deposit the cash. Also makes me feel I am helping the world economy via them in a small way.
> 
> I don't know what the attraction of La Vagabond is. Other than the doey eyed gal modeling her hats and swim suit collection. They even have an on board video editor now. At least the Delos crew do their own editing doing the tedious work of producing the videos themselves.


Agreed all around. Of course, while Delos is bringing in some real coin, I've heard them say they maintain both boat and health insurance and I bet they spend a ton on cameras, etc. I've seen shots that show several other cameras in them. They are wise to remain frugal, I bet not all that much is left.

I've realized, I used to like seeing the locations SLV was visiting, more than Riley and Eleana. He started out modest, but started feeling good about himself. She's always been in love with the camera. Nice enough kids, just lost interest.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I'm dredging this thread back up after a week.

Has anyone else noticed that several of the video bloggers seem to have fallen off the face of the earth?

Sailing With Dogs - Last update 4 months ago - and their boat, Wee Beastie, is for sale on Yachtworld
Abandon Comfort - Last update over a month ago "Trapped in a Tropical Storm"
s/v Escape - Last update 6 months ago - although I suspect that he got busted in the Bahamas for not checking in for over a week.
and Wicked Salty - their boat sank

Glad that Sailing Uma is still going.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Chasing the Story (Cheeky Monkey) also went dark. Bummer.


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

Abandon Comfort
October 23 at 7:30pm · 
[Day 70]
Hopewell Rocks, NB

had to look at their facebook to figure it out, guess no time for putting videos out....


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

For the voyeurs looking for an accident waiting to happen, there’s Sailing Miss Lone Star, who ran into the Reedy Island underwater dike (posted today, but probably happened 2 months ago). I shudder to think of her taking her 8 year old daughter out in the ocean on that delapidated boat with her lack of experience. And I wonder what she has done to properly home school the child this fall. But Mom does look hott in her bikini.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

snokid said:


> Abandon Comfort
> October 23 at 7:30pm ·
> [Day 70]
> Hopewell Rocks, NB
> ...


Thank you for that... I don't often use FaceBook, although my boat has a FB page.

It seems that they are taking a couple of months to explore the east coast of North America before they return to work on the boat.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

mbianka said:


> .... Other than the doey eyed gal modeling her hats and swim suit collection......


Good stuff...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> .....Sailing Miss Lone Star, who ran into the Reedy Island underwater dike......


That woman is in the Danger Zone. I sure which I had this tutorial, when I was younger.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Too funny. I heard a lot of giggles from his audience 

I’m not sure I’d call Aubrey crazy, but I see her as extremely manipulative and self-centered, which might be a third dimension on that matrix. 

My wife is definitely in unicorn territory. And she’s definitely not a guy.


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## bblument (Oct 22, 2012)

TakeFive said:


> ...
> 
> My wife is definitely in unicorn territory. And she's definitely not a guy.


Hmmm... that's not what he told me...

lol.. sorry... couldn't resist. Congrats.


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## Skyeterrier (Feb 11, 2016)

There has to be a balance to maintain interest in these videos.

I really like the "No ******** Just Sailing" Norwegian guy with the Contessa, but he kind of ran out of content. Because he has a good steady job, he only plies the same section of Atlantic between Norway and Shetland, and there can be only so many videos of him out there howling at waves before he's covered the same ground. He has to either do different stuff, go different places, or have different people.

Or, if like Christian Williams, he's a talented wordsmith with the soul of a poet, and is able to provide insights about life and sailing while also teaching you about practical things, then he can make the same trip (such as Williams going from SoCal to Hawaii) but provide fresh new content.

I will say that Erik is very talented getting drone footage of his boat and of coastal scenery, so he should make some money or get some more usage out of that passion and I understand that he was doing that to help cover some race events, and he had a plan for a longer cruise before his engine blew up.

I watched the Wicked Salty early stuff and liked them, but I was also disappointed in their video about the sinking of their boat. I didn't like that they didn't really say anything about what they knew or theorized about the reason, and I can't blame them given they are filing an insurance claim, but it doesn't allow us to learn about a critical incident like this. You can hear them talking to the insurance claims adjuster on the phone and they do say something like "this would never have happened if we hadn't left (the seacock) open" so it does sound like maybe a hose gave way behind an open seacock. 

The idea that they would sink their own boat to create clickbait drama is silly. Not because fake created drama isn't created all the time for reality shows (and that's what vlogs mostly are), but because that specific method of creating drama would be self defeating - you get clicks for one episode and then you are out of a boat for maybe a year or more.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Skyeterrier said:


> .....You can hear them talking to the insurance claims adjuster on the phone and they do say something like "this would never have happened if we hadn't left (the seacock) open" so it does sound like maybe a hose gave way behind an open seacock.


Most insurance policies are written with an exclusion for losses incurred as the result of deferred or improperly completed maintenance. I hope this wasn't the case of a 30 years old hose split or they only had one corroded hose clamp, below the water line. Those claims can be denied, unless you have special and infrequent language in your policy that covers them.



> The idea that they would sink their own boat to create clickbait drama is silly. .....


I have to believe their plan was to go sailing and this wasn't for attention or insurance fraud. However, the way they tried to reveal it was click bait. They just released a teaser vid that said their boat sunk. Not much more...... stay tuned at 11 for details. And buy a limited edition sunken boat t-shirt to help us out (ie we're not going to have them made until you all send us the money for them). It was a pretty cheesy approach.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

Skyeterrier said:


> There has to be a balance to maintain interest in these videos.
> 
> _I watched the Wicked Salty early stuff and liked them, but I was also disappointed in their video about the sinking of their boat. I didn't like that they didn't really say anything about what they knew or theorized about the reason, and I can't blame them given they are filing an insurance claim, but it doesn't allow us to learn about a critical incident like this. You can hear them talking to the insurance claims adjuster on the phone and they do say something like "this would never have happened if we hadn't left (the seacock) open" so it does sound like maybe a hose gave way behind an open seacock. _


It is interesting to see their reaction to their boat sinking with that of an older salt like Eric Forsyth. THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: ERIC FORSYTH: An Inexplicable Attraction
Both experienced sunken boats this year just before heading out on a cruise. Both by hose "failures" and/or seacocks not being closed. The difference is the Wicked Salty crew plan was to take the insurance money for the sunken boat. Eric's was to dry his boat out, change the alternator and some of the electronics and then head out anyway. Last I read he and his crew where in Spain or Portugal. While Wicked Salty kids are selling T shirts.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Was Eric insured? I'm not sure this is quite the analogy you're trying to make.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Aubrey's constant surprises at the things a "dollar boat" needs, and her discovery of previously unknown concrete [ahem] do tend to make one suspect that when her ex called their previous (finance? charter?) company and they pulled the rather more expensive boat out from under her because of her inexperience, etc....Well, maybe there was some validity in their point of view.

But she chats online and gets paid for it. Most of the posters here don't make any money on Sailnet. She's got the last laugh, for the time being.

Stayed tuned for the "8 Y.O. GIRL RESCUED AT SEA!" video, sure to come when that outboard abortion job tries to sail offshore.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> Most insurance policies are written with an exclusion for losses incurred as the result of deferred or improperly completed maintenance. I hope this wasn't the case of a 30 years old hose split or they only had one corroded hose clamp, below the water line.


As I'm sure you already know, those things would be identified by a survey. If root cause was an uncorrected deficiency from the survey, insurance may decline coverage.

Eric Forsyth is a poor analogy for several reasons. First, these are kids, not 50 year circumnavigators. Second, the boat is new to them and they've put relatively little into it. The need to replace all electricals, woodwork, and probably the motor too makes repair far more costly than the value of the boat. Better for all (including insurance company) to take the money and make a fresh start. If they had 10+ years of upgrades and sweat equity invested, it might have been worth saving like Eric did.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

smackdaddy said:


> Was Eric insured? I'm not sure this is quite the analogy you're trying to make.


That's a fair point! I'm not sure if he did or not. But, still got to admire his gumption to get back on the water and start on his planned cruise despite the sinking. Don't think he wait around to long for the insurance company to settle things if he did.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

TakeFive said:


> As I'm sure you already know, those things would be identified by a survey. If root cause was an uncorrected deficiency from the survey, insurance may decline coverage.
> 
> Eric Forsyth is a poor analogy for several reasons. First, these are kids, not 50 year circumnavigators. Second, the boat is new to them and they've put relatively little into it. The need to replace all electricals, woodwork, and probably the motor too makes repair far more costly than the value of the boat. Better for all (including insurance company) to take the money and make a fresh start. If they had 10+ years of upgrades and sweat equity invested, it might have been worth saving like Eric did.


Then there is the person who gets a bargain price on the written off boat as a fixer upper too.


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

My favorite of all the v-logs is still Untie the Lines.....minimum of drama and lots of gumption! How many of us would be willing and able to pull our old engine when it bit the dust, pretty much alone?


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

bigdogandy said:


> My favorite of all the v-logs is still Untie the Lines.....minimum of drama and lots of gumption! How many of us would be willing and able to pull our old engine when it bit the dust, pretty much alone?


I did when a diesel mechanic who was going to buy it bailed out on me. 
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: Removing a Westerbeke diesel engine
Turned out to be kind of fun and easier than I first thought it would be.


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

mbianka said:


> I did when a diesel mechanic who was going to buy it bailed out on me.
> THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: Removing a Westerbeke diesel engine
> Turned out to be kind of fun and easier than I first thought it would be.


Nice work! Love the details you included in documenting the process, too. Sad to hear about all of the headaches with the mechanics, though.

I do wonder, though, what percentage of Salnetters would be willing and able to undertak such a task? I am a devoted DIYer and I'm not sure I would take a run at something unless I could find a decent helper.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> As I'm sure you already know, those things would be identified by a survey. If root cause was an uncorrected deficiency from the survey, insurance may decline coverage........


That's right. They may als decline coverage if you allow things to deteriorate beyond standards after the survey. Defines good this standards must be hard. However something like a slipped hose that was endured with a single rusty clamp would be pretty clear. Not that I'm saying I know that is what happened here. However, their naïveté causes me concern.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

bigdogandy said:


> Nice work! Love the details you included in documenting the process, too. Sad to hear about all of the headaches with the mechanics, though.
> 
> I do wonder, though, what percentage of Salnetters would be willing and able to undertak such a task? I am a devoted DIYer and I'm not sure I would take a run at something unless I could find a decent helper.


Yeah, the mechanic did put me in a bind. It was the end of the season and my boat was about to be pulled. The yard boss said I would have a few days before they would put another boat in front of mine. Once they did that I'd have to wait until spring before they could get the crane to lift the engine out. So i decided to see if I could DIY. Felt good to see the iron pig finally leave the boat. I posted the process to help others if/when it comes time to repower. Amazing how much stuff comes out with the engine.


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

mbianka said:


> Yeah, the mechanic did put me in a bind. It was the end of the season and my boat was about to be pulled. The yard boss said I would have a few days before they would put another boat in front of mine. Once they did that I'd have to wait until spring before they could get the crane to lift the engine out. So i decided to see if I could DIY. Felt good to see the iron pig finally leave the boat. I posted the process to help others if/when it comes time to repower. Amazing how much stuff comes out with the engine.


Thanks for doing that.....I am going to have replace engine mounts this winter and will need to lift the engine to do that....won't have to completely strip the of engine like you did but will look at how you raised yours when the time comes.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

bigdogandy said:


> My favorite of all the v-logs is still Untie the Lines.....minimum of drama and lots of gumption! How many of us would be willing and able to pull our old engine when it bit the dust, pretty much alone?


I followed her for a year or two, but it became clear that she was not "pretty much alone" like she implied. The lack of transparency turned me off a bit. There's nothing wrong with having help, but pretending that you're "out there all alone" when you're not is not genuine reality TV (oxymoron intended).



Minnewaska said:


> ...They may als decline coverage if you allow things to deteriorate beyond standards after the survey. Defines good this standards must be hard. However something like a slipped hose that was endured with a single rusty clamp would be pretty clear. Not that I'm saying I know that is what happened here.


I do not know any more than you, except that their timeline makes it seem like not enough time lapsed for this to have happened. If a boat is going to sink, it's best for it to happen right after it passes survey.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

bigdogandy said:


> Thanks for doing that.....I am going to have replace engine mounts this winter and will need to lift the engine to do that....won't have to completely strip the of engine like you did but will look at how you raised yours when the time comes.


After you remove the screws holding the engine/prop coupling together and maybe some of the more rigid hoses. Crow Bars and wood blocks will be your friends.  I was amazed how easy it was to lift the 424 pound engine by myself. Not surprised the Untie The Lines gal could do it too.


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## rkinross (Mar 23, 2014)

Does anybody know what happened to Wes and Kate? They seemed to disappear shortly after their boat sank. Just a few boat sinking youtubes and then nothing for the past few months (last one October 15th).


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

rkinross said:


> Does anybody know what happened to Wes and Kate? They seemed to disappear shortly after their boat sank. Just a few boat sinking youtubes and then nothing for the past few months (last one October 15th).


They probably have gone back to work to save for a new boat. Though maybe they threw in the towel after the sinking. They reached their goal with the previous boat so a tip of the hat to them. Also You Tube cruising channels have proliferated quite a bit so making money through ads and Pateron may be much tougher this go round for them. I enjoyed following them on their first trip south while they were learning along the way.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I wonder if they are having trouble with the insurance claim, which would undoubtedly ruin them. The best I could tell, it was a failed thru hull or hose. If the loss is deemed consequential damage from something they failed to maintain properly (two hose clamps, old hose, corroded valve, etc) and they didn't buy specific coverage for that (most don't), the claim could be denied.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I checked in with a good friend who knows them. He has not seen them since the end of sailing season, but that is not unusual since in past years they would move on to their non-sailing lives during the off-season. He believes that the insurance company has notified them that they are covered, though not sure if they've actually received the check yet. I do not know the cause of sinking, except that they fully disclosed to the insurance company any user error that may have been involved. If all of this is true, it's nice to see young people being up-front with the insurance company about any mistakes that they made, and their good karma being rewarded with a fair settlement. I don't know for sure, but this appears to be the case.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I saw a FB post today that says that the Wicked Salty crew are looking for a ~$30K boat in SC or VA.


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