# Boat insurance, who?



## serpa4 (Aug 2, 2015)

I'm looking to buy a 1988 30foot C&C sailboat to live aboard in DC. Who or what company do you insure through? I'm looking to sail the Chesapeake Bay. I have taken asa 101, 103/104 and been sailing for 2 years.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Don't take anecdotal examples, from the internet, as good input. All insurance companies are forced to run separately, by state, so my experience with one could be entirely different than yours.

The best way to place coverage is to find a local agent, who represents several different insurance companies and knows the marine markets, to advise you. Beyond coverage and price, they can help you understand how good each is when you make a claim and how flexible they are, for example, if you need to haul or launch outside a defined window or allow someone else to move your boat, etc. Ask them about consequential damage coverage too.

The worst way to buy insurance, IMO, is to call the insurance company directly.


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## mikel1 (Oct 19, 2008)

I have BOAT US . . . They were easy . . .


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

FWIW, I've been a Boat US customer for more than 20 years of boat ownership. Though, I've only had one claim in all that time, when I needed them, they were a pleasure to do business with: fast, communicative and efficient. They have a diminishing deductable plan. 
Since I had never filed a claim, My deductable had gone from $500 to zero deductable, when I did. Which = no out of pocket costs. 
I'm covered from Nova Scotia to Jacksonville Fla. Wtih no time restriction on being south of Norfolk Va. 

Their unlimited towing ins. policy is probably the best purchase, I've ever made. I needed a tow once, that would have cost me over $800. The Bill was Zero. My only cost was a tip to the tow operator. 

My marina was devasted by Hurricane Sandy, while I survived without damage, a great many boats did not. Boat U.S had a trailer,an office, and staff on-site within days to manage the claims, while handing out coffee and buns. While, I'm sure other adjusters were around, I didn't see anyone else with that level of service on-site. 

I have no affilation with them other than membership and my 2 policies. I only speak from my own experience. I also, have not compared their price to other companies in many years, so I can't attest to where they fit in the pricing spectrum.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Association sponsored programs, like BoatUS, can be good deals. Essentially, BoatUS is an agent, who places the insurance with a real third party insurance company. The insurance company will often create a unique set of coverages for a client like BoatUS, who has access to hundreds of thousands of potential clients and, undoubtedly, is paid a commission.

In some cases, the insured party gets a great deal on additional coverages (ie vanishing deductible) that others may not have access to. In other cases, you get more coverage, but you pay more for it. Then it becomes a question of whether the coverage is meaningful or appropriate for you.

Personally, I've found BoatUS coverage to be more expensive and they weren't willing to cover what I believe is the actual hull value of my boat. Yes, that is a negotiable point with many companies and a classic method that some companies use to say they will "save you 15% in 15 minutes". They just reduce the hull value and lower their exposure.


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## serpa4 (Aug 2, 2015)

I'll check out both agents and individuals. What would be an example of individual companies? I bank with USAA (military) but they passed me to another company as they don't do boat insurance. 

Also, someone said it might go on a home policy. Anyone heard of that?


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I have been using Erie Insurance Exchange for 40 years, very, very reliable, outstanding coverage and the lowest price in the industry. 

Gary


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

serpa4 said:


> What would be an example of individual companies?


You see them advertise on TV all the time. Again, varies by State.



> Also, someone said it might go on a home policy. Anyone heard of that?


Some do, but usually have an upper limit on the size and value boat they will add, before requiring it be a dedicated marine policy. Be very careful of the add-on and make sure you are still getting very important and specific marine environmental coverage, hurricane haul out, etc. The homeowner add-on may just cover hull loss in more narrowly defined circumstances.

There is another concept you should understand, called the Broker of Record. No two brokers (agents) can call to get a quote for you from the same company. If you call the company directly, the broker/agent, won't be able to get a quote for you as well and will not be able to compare features for you. Essentially, the insurance company won't compete against itself. It's best to let the agent do all the work for you. It's what they get paid to do.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Do call your local agent, and, do call companies directly. Lately, for me, the company with the little Auzzie lizard is cheapest. For years before that, my agent was killing it.

I have been drifting away from the local agent because I started doing better on my own AND I stopped getting the personalized service I enjoyed. I don't mind paying the same or a tiny bit more for good service from a local business.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

We had great success with Bill Hodgens of Yachtinsure -- when we got our first and only boat a brand new Jeanneau DS40 and no previous experience except a couple of charters and the asa courses you have we could not find insurance. 
Bill insured us and kept changing the policy to meet our needs not the insurance company or his. He is a great guy who will work with you 

as for local guys - I disagree they may not have the experience or reach to really find the best marine policy for you -- this is not house or car insurance. - it is different with different rules 

We now have IMIS and they are great - each year we challenge them with our needs and they meet them each time - this year is a bit more of a challenge for them as we are headed into the Black Sea but they worked it out.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Clearly, you have to find an agent that is familiar with the marine industry. Anywhere I've ever been, near the water, there has been more than one to pick from. With 15,000 boats on Narragansett Bay, it could be an agent's entire business.

I also noted the story about an agent that started to drift away. That's too bad, but it happens in many recurring business industries. They can find themselves too focused on finding new clients, over keeping the one's they have. The direct carrier can do the same. I would still find another agent that represents multiple insurance companies. When you buy direct, there is no one that is going to explain what that one single word on page 63 does to change their liability to you. There is also no one to advocate or advise you on how properly handle a claim with them.


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## Sinister (Dec 29, 2014)

My auto is through USAA as well, and like was mentioned above, they don't do boats. 

They passed me to progressive, which ended up being cheaper and better coverage than boat us.

Boat US would only cover me in the Hudson river, and I had to stay North of the George Washington bridge. Progressive is up to 75 miles offshore.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

OK, so I have 'heard' horrible things about Progressive paying out. To be clear, I have never had progressive or tried to get a claim through them.

This is a true story; When I was still with my agent and Traveler's had just stopped coverage in CT so she found me some company I never heard of at a good price. I broke my prop coming into a travel lift as the very last haul out on the eve of Hurricane Sandy. It was windy as heck, there was already debris in the river and starting to rain. I thought I hit something. I spoke with three yards (well known in the Mystic/Stonington area) about replacing the prop. All three asked me up front if I had Progressive because if I did, they would not deal directly with them.

Footnote: I never did get paid for the prop as the surveyor they sent said that there was a previous crack and corrosion had set in, probably just as well it happened as I was pulling into the travel lift, it was going to happen sooner or later. The insurance company also denied me a "hurricane haul out" payment as they claimed it was late in the season and I would have hauled out sooner or later anyway. After a battle I settled for half what they owed me for the haul out.


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

I used Allstate, It was clear they were led through the process by their underwriter so I don't know about the "experienced" part but they got through it.
For me it was to my advantage to go with the same guy that had everything else, there's power in numbers. They DID do some weird stuff like making me hire a surveyor for some pretty petty items found on my purchase survey but at the end I got a very favorable stated value at a super cost. For comparison I priced a bit and everyone was higher and wanted me to switch ALL my business to them, a Boat only insurer wouldn't ask that of me and I didn't talk to any of those guys.


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## Sinister (Dec 29, 2014)

Hmmmm. I've never had to file a claim through progressive as I've only had the boat a year and never had them before. 

I haven't heard horror stories, but I might have to dig deeper.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

RobGallagher said:


> .....The insurance company also denied me a "hurricane haul out" payment as they claimed it was late in the season and I would have hauled out sooner or later anyway.......


I've made several successful hurricane haulout claims over the years, but while I'm a big advocate of having the coverage, the language is sticky. The insurance company gets a bit of lattitude to decide if it was necessary. If there is truly the threat of a storm, they all prefer you haul out, so that's straight forward. It's when the storm is 5 days out, you know you'll not be available to deal with it or the haul list will get too long in a couple more days, so you haul early. Then the storm turns and isn't a threat. Insurance won't pay.

The opposite example of your story is when people are truly prepared to haul out for the season and then a storm comes and they want the insurance company to pay for it. I totally understand why they won't. The boat owner had no financial expense. Precisely the circumstance with Hurricane Sandy up here. I was already scheduled, so I made no claim. Others were pressing the marina pretty hard to bill as a stand alone hurricane haul, more than just the included winter storage fee. The marina would not play along with the fraud.

In fact, in our yard, if you do haul for a hurricane, you are required to go back in the water, even if you then want to stay out early. They can't get the boats positioned properly for the winter, in random order.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Call Al Golden at IMIS. They're pros who have been doing this over 30 years, and they will gladly tell you if you are missing anything, such as wreck removal and environmental coverages. Sometimes they can't compete on coverage from a cheaper source, and if that's the case they'll tell you that as well. But you WILL be dealing with highly respected professionals. If there are any weasel words in an insurance contract, they also know about that, so you don't need to get a rude surprise when you actually see your policy.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

My sailboat is covered by an agreed value policy from amarine underwriter through a local insurance agency. A number of years ago, I shopped around and found BoatUS to be $200/yr cheaper, but then I asked the $25000 question: Does the policy provide for equipment--particularly electronics--replacement or does it adjust for depreciation? Long story short: I have stayed with a proper yacht policy through the local agency and it has paid off. The restoration after a lightning strike was handled professionally and thoroughly to my satisfaction. 

On the other hand, my power boat, which doesn't have nearly as much electronics, is insured via one of the companies best known for car insurance.

Whatever policy you are considering, please read the fine print.


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## wrwakefield (Nov 18, 2015)

If you can't get a policy under your home owner's insurance [and we have done that successfully in the past with other vessels] then be sure Al Golden at IMIS is one of those you contact. [Al is an ex-cruiser and marine insurance expert with decades of experience.]

You will get the absolute straight scoop from IMIS, and they will refer you elsewhere or let you know if they cannot be competitive. [No referral incentive here; just a very happy customer...]

Here is a brief, focused page on our blog about our strategy regarding marine insurance in case that is of interest. I have had that content vetted by a couple of marine insurance brokers [including IMIS] to confirm I was on track...

Best wishes with your search.

Cheers!

Bill


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

serpa4 said:


> I bank with USAA (military) but they passed me to another company as they don't do boat insurance.
> 
> Also, someone said it might go on a home policy. Anyone heard of that?


I am a longtime USAA member. While they used to insure boats (used them with my previous boat), they got out of that business a few years ago and entered into an arrangement with Progressive. I went with them when I bought my current boat and I have been completely satisfied. I've had two claims - one from being hit on my mooring and the second from Sandy. Both claims were settled quickly and to my satisfaction.

You can get liability insurance for a small boat under your homeowners. Not for a sailboat of the size you are talking about.


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## Lakepapa (Jul 21, 2015)

Sinister said:


> My auto is through USAA as well, and like was mentioned above, they don't do boats.
> 
> They passed me to progressive, which ended up being cheaper and better coverage than boat us.
> 
> Boat US would only cover me in the Hudson river, and I had to stay North of the George Washington bridge. Progressive is up to 75 miles offshore.


Ditto. I've been with USAA for over 40 years. I have a power boat insured with them but when I bought my Corsair, they passed me off to Progressive. Seems they (USAA) farmed out their marine coverage (not sure when..I've had my power boat coverage with USAA since 1999). I also found them to be less expensive than Boat US so I went with them.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Minnewaska said:


> I've made several successful hurricane haulout claims over the years, but while I'm a big advocate of having the coverage, the language is sticky. The insurance company gets a bit of lattitude to decide if it was necessary. If there is truly the threat of a storm, they all prefer you haul out, so that's straight forward. It's when the storm is 5 days out, you know you'll not be available to deal with it or the haul list will get too long in a couple more days, so you haul early. Then the storm turns and isn't a threat. Insurance won't pay.
> 
> The opposite example of your story is when people are truly prepared to haul out for the season and then a storm comes and they want the insurance company to pay for it. I totally understand why they won't. The boat owner had no financial expense. Precisely the circumstance with Hurricane Sandy up here. I was already scheduled, so I made no claim. Others were pressing the marina pretty hard to bill as a stand alone hurricane haul, more than just the included winter storage fee. The marina would not play along with the fraud.
> 
> In fact, in our yard, if you do haul for a hurricane, you are required to go back in the water, even if you then want to stay out early. They can't get the boats positioned properly for the winter, in random order.


I also have a mooring that is way overbuilt for my 30 ft boat and jetted into the mud. (I did that in case I ever move up, I won't have to deal with a new mooring.) I consider this, with the boat properly prepped, to be safer than being on jack stands during a hurricane tide. However, I am forced to haul out, even though they only pay for half.

So if I lose a week of boat use, then I feel they should pay. Regardless of if I go back in or not. If the hurricane happens on the week of my scheduled haul out, then fine, but I doubt it will happen. I am last out and first in. Sometimes I make it past Thanksgiving.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

RobGallagher said:


> I also have a mooring that is way overbuilt for my 30 ft boat and jetted into the mud. (I did that in case I ever move up, I won't have to deal with a new mooring.) I consider this, with the boat properly prepped, to be safer than being on jack stands during a hurricane tide. However, I am forced to haul out, even though they only pay for half.


Curious, who forces you? Certainly a good hurricane mooring has it's merits, but the odds are pretty well established that being on the hard is better. Of course, not every place on the hard is as good as the next and odds are odds, you can come up craps. Beyond the potential for chafing through a mooring pennant, which can be highly mitigated, but not completely eliminated, the issue in a hurricane is what may float through the water and ram you. Lots of big stuff gets torn offshore in a cane. It's not how hard the wind blows, it's what the wind blows. On the hard, you want to be tucked between everyone else.  I've seen the boats that have fallen off their stands, but that's not too common, without a direct hit or poor procedure.



> So if I lose a week of boat use, then I feel they should pay. Regardless of if I go back in or not.....


I understand, but that's not a financial loss and I'm not aware of a policy that insures the weather is nice enough to sail, whether it's a hurricane or not. I've been grounded for a week many times. Not to mention, everyone would just say they were planning to sail that week and all our premiums would go up, for the increased claims. Everyone loses.


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## capecodda (Oct 6, 2009)

i'm on the page of using an agent that specializes in marine insurance for cruising sized boats. It's helpful to be able to talk with someone who knows you, your boat, where you cruise, your experience, and is able to advocate with carriers to get good rates and the right coverage for your particular circumstance. I've found if we were making a trip beyond our coverage geography, I could get a rider with a quick call to a real person who has known me for many years. Although I haven't found myself in a salvage situation, I'd rather be dealing with an agent that knows me and can advocate, rather than an amorphous large company while waiting on an 800 number queue. 

I maybe the only person left in the internet era who highly values being able to talk with a real person, and still wants a relationship based business deal. Part of getting old, maybe, but I'm not changing now...too late.

YMMV.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Minnewaska said:


> Curious, who forces you? Certainly a good hurricane mooring has it's merits, but the odds are pretty well established that being on the hard is better. Of course, not every place on the hard is as good as the next and odds are odds, you can come up craps. Beyond the potential for chafing through a mooring pennant, which can be highly mitigated, but not completely eliminated, the issue in a hurricane is what may float through the water and ram you. Lots of big stuff gets torn offshore in a cane. It's not how hard the wind blows, it's what the wind blows. On the hard, you want to be tucked between everyone else.  I've seen the boats that have fallen off their stands, but that's not too common, without a direct hit or poor procedure.
> 
> I understand, but that's not a financial loss and I'm not aware of a policy that insures the weather is nice enough to sail, whether it's a hurricane or not. I've been grounded for a week many times. Not to mention, everyone would just say they were planning to sail that week and all our premiums would go up, for the increased claims. Everyone loses.


The insurance company pays for the haul out is because they expect, if at all possible, to haul out. Just like I have a layup period or geographic limitations. They pay for damages if I pay my bill and follow their rules.

I think we all understand the odds. Boats, by the numbers, left at docks are much more likely to be damaged in the water during a storm. Many people also do the bare minimum to prepare for a storm in hopes they pay a deductible rather than a broker.

I also understand the issue of getting hit by something in the water or damage to a pennant.

However, a low lying coastal area affected by the tidal surge of a direct hit, one can be pretty sure boats are going to float off their stands. It is the tidal surge that does the most damage to boats, not wind or debris. Boats left on floating docks that rise above pilings during the surge end up in a pile across the street from the marina. Boats on fixed docks get destroyed as the tide rises feet above the top of the dock. And, yes, boats in crowded rental moorings can be hit by other boats or themselves drag. Around my parts, mooring fields are near empty in the event of a hurricane.

So yes, overall odds are better on land. That does not mean that my odds are better on land. And I fully understand how insurance works, and that they rarely do things on a case by case basis, until it's time to pay, then it becomes a case by case basis. That's why they hire actuaries and adjusters.

I was simply making a point. If they want me to haul and they only pay for half, then, if it's convenient for me, that is what they get, half. If I have more sailing to do then I will pay to put the boat back in and then do it again for the winter.

The only reason the insurance company cared if my boat went back in or not was because I broke my prop coming into the travel lift. Otherwise they would have just mailed the check for the hurricane haul out along with thousands of others. Once they got involved, they got greedy.

I wonder how much they paid to send a surveyor from Warwick, RI to deny a claim on a fixed two blade prop? The guy spent a lot more time bullshitting about C&C Yachts then he did staring at half a prop.

I always wonder if the idiot at the desk who decided to pay the surveyor for half a day also decided he needed to cover his backside and tried to deny the haul out because he was underwater between he price of the prop and the surveyor.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

fallard-
Some years ago I had a discussion with Progressive regarding insurance for a classic car. After the rep and I had been chatting for a while he said, well, he should really tell me that even though it was an "agreed value" policy? The fine print in their contracts would actually say "Agreed value or market value, whichever is the less."
So some "agreed value" policies from some insurers who are generally thought of as nice guys? Is in fact weasel words and worthless.

That's the kind of "heads up!" that the folks at IMIS are good at finding, and alerting, prospective buyers to.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Rob-
While there is some merit in leaving your boat on your oversized mooring rather than hauling, consider this.
In theory, every boat hauled and secured on jackstands on the hard, for that hurricane, is now in a protected area, surrounded by secured vessels. (As if none ever blow over, I now.) But if you are on a mooring, all kinds of breakaways and other debris may still come down on your mooring and sink your boat. And a boat that sinks in the water is often a total loss (and endangers other vessels) while a boat that is smacked on the hard, is just a bent boat.
So your insurer MAY be totally insane, but their actions are usually the result of their actuarial experience. Which is based on "everyone", not just you and your boat. Their desire to see your boat hauled, even if that greatly inconveniences you, may simply be the result of how they feel the boats, all the boats, have to be protected. 
Of course you can always submit a proposal at Lloyd's for a custom policy, but you might not like the price. One way or the other, they are, after all, in it for the profit.


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## serpa4 (Aug 2, 2015)

Great info, thanks.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Funny IMIS never called me back. I contacted them a while ago, never heard back from them. I currently have Progressive and am not happy with them. I had a car claim that I think they were very bad on. Granted it was an older car 2000 BMW 530i but was very low millage and in mint conditino and they were showing me comps with 160,000 miles or were in poor condition. Wish I had sold the car as I did not go through a week without someone asked to buy it at about four times what they paid me. I am using them because they don't require a survey, at least for liability and that makes it worth it. I am not really worried about my boat, but need the insurance for the marina and in case I drift into someone. I am looking, but have not fond anyone. Once some work is done on the boat, I may go elsewhere. I did have excellent service from Erie insurance from when my mechanic backed in my car with his truck in the lot. They offered all BMW OE (very rare) parts and called to make sure I was satisfied after the work was done. So that is who I am likely switching to. 

So factoring in a survey should be in the budget. So it may well make sense to get a pre-purchase survey and have him do the insurance survey at the same time.


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## Plumbean (Dec 17, 2009)

fallard said:


> My sailboat is covered by an agreed value policy from amarine underwriter through a local insurance agency. A number of years ago, I shopped around and found BoatUS to be $200/yr cheaper, but then I asked the $25000 question: Does the policy provide for equipment--particularly electronics--replacement or does it adjust for depreciation? Long story short: I have stayed with a proper yacht policy through the local agency and it has paid off. The restoration after a lightning strike was handled professionally and thoroughly to my satisfaction.
> 
> On the other hand, my power boat, which doesn't have nearly as much electronics, is insured via one of the companies best known for car insurance.
> 
> Whatever policy you are considering, please read the fine print.


So I happen to be in the midst of making a claim on my Boat US policy, and after reading this post I asked about my coverage for electronics. I was told that electronics on my policy are not subject to depreciation, but are a replacement item. Perhaps they have changed their policies on this? As it so happens, my electronics are fine, so I won't actually be testing this in my case.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Folks, I just can't say this often enough. Comparing experiences, with the exact same carrier (Progressive, etc), from one state to the next, can be very different. They each form state specific subsidiaries to comply with individual state insurance laws. That can also change their behavior state by state.

A good agent can and will be able to point out all the scenarios above. They should know that one carrier may make it easier to insure, without a survey, but could be much harder to make a claim or gets more aggressive on value.

No doubt, there are also deficient agents out there, so getting a good one, with good references, who has ample experience in marine insurance is very important. The lowest premium is not the best coverage. The easiest policy is not the best coverage. The best coverage is the one that will pay you, if you lose the bet you are concerned about.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Just resigned with Catlin now called XL. Several things should be considered.
Beyond cost and fine print-
Geographic restrictions.
Time restrictions.
Crew requirements.
Availability of riders.
Is it US or offshore based. If offshore maybe quite problematic to settle a claim and there's absence of involvement of US gov't agencies to advocate for you. For instance have heard claims against Llyods can be tied up for years.
Also underwriters for new or more extensive trips becomes very much easier if you have a history with that carrier. Therefore you should consider boats you may own in the future and trips you may take against whether that carrier will underwrite that activity. Although the Bahamas/Canada is often covered many carriers will not cover rest of carribean nor trans Atlantic/Pacific nor even a Panama Canal Mexico west coast trip. Simple snow birding may not be covered unless entirely in US waters. 
With US carriers many require boat returns to US periodically. Sometimes for a certain interval. Sometimes requires boat be in US waters for >1/2yr. Beyond hurricane restrictions this means going on the hard in Trinidad or Grenada for the summer is not allowed.


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## svzephyr44 (Jun 26, 2000)

I suggest you read this. BTW, there is a world of difference between having a US Marine Policy (you mentioned DC) and a world cruising policy (all over the world, more than 100 miles from shore>) What Marine Insurance Companies Don't Want You To Know


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Z like your crew questionaire. Enjoy your sense of humor.


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## Plumbean (Dec 17, 2009)

Anyone have a recommendation for an insurance agent that covers NY? Given my experience with Boat US, I expect to be shopping around for a new carrier once my claim is settled.


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## mica (Jul 10, 2016)

I've been with BoatUs for probably 18 years. Haven't had to file a claim, though they have a reputation for being very good about that (or maybe more accurately, forcing their underwriter to be good about it). They have changed underwriters, if that's the right term, at least once in that time, but it didn't affect anything. One good point is that they haven't required a survey since i signed up. 

I had been with a local agent and a major insurer at one time. Signed up in LA, and only after I toka trip to San Francisco did I find out that I was no longer insured north of Pt Sur or something like that. My bad for not reading the restrictions, but I certainly didn't think it was an extended trip. BoatUS covers me between Canada and 60 miles into Mexico.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

miatapaul said:


> Funny IMIS never called me back. I contacted them a while ago, never heard back from them.
> 
> So factoring in a survey should be in the budget. So it may well make sense to get a pre-purchase survey and have him do the insurance survey at the same time.


IMIS never called back! that is very strange. We have had nothing but excellent service from them. When we went to Montenegro the gov't there required 1m euro liability and we carried 500k - an email to IMIS and they had it for us the next day.

When we came to the Black Sea we had to get a rider for the far eastern part and we told IMIS when we would be there and they had the rider done in less than 12 hours and back to us.

there service has simply been incredible and they have worked with us on our cruising plans and nothing we tell them seems to phase them from the 2 handed atlantic crossing to Colombia to the Black Sea - they work it out for us.

We deal with Rachel Sloan at IMIS.

as for a survey on a new boat. WOW that seems like a must do period no discussion no second thoughts on it


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## jdThaw (Aug 6, 2015)

try FOREMOST insurance works for my 37


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## Guyfromthenorth (Jul 2, 2015)

I have struggled with insurance for 2 seasons now in Ontario Canada. If anyone has any ideas let me know please...

I have a 7.5m Tanzer from 1978. It's in great shape with enough new gear on it that I want it insured. Not to mention I trailer it home at the end of each season (180miles one direction on a sketchy log haul tertiary road) which I think has a much higher chance of catastrophy than actually sailing.

The problem is whenever I call a place that says they insure boats they say they absolutely will not insure a sailboat over 15 years old. FIFTEEN YEARS OLD! I doubt I could afford a 15yrs old lazer, let alone a 25' boat lol.

I found 1 company in Toronto who was willing to insure me. They wanted 500$ a season and refused to tell me what they would ESTIMATE a value of total loss to be at. They kept dancing around the question and saying they would have to evaluate it at the time. I said "so if it sinks TOMORROW as is what would you cover me for??" and they kept saying they weren't sure. Well I wasn't about to pay a company 500$ in the event that they deem my replacement cost to be 0.25cents. It just didn't seem right to me that they couldn't even give me a ballpark, I mean why bother insuring for loss if they refuse to even say "well assuming all is as reported and it happened tomorrow the survey value would be <$$$> dollars and we would pay that out, this may change down the road".

Sorry for the rant. I just was shocked at how few (found ONE) places would insure a boat over 15 yrs old...


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Guy, I've been insured through Elite here in Ontario (used to be Robertson Insurance I think) for over a decade. My boat is pushing 40 and no problems. Hull and liability. 


Why go fast, when you can go slow


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## EdwardHorner (Jun 27, 2017)

Erie Insurance Exchange is a good one


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## WoobaGooba (Oct 16, 2012)

Bump ... Boat US changed over to Geico. My rate increased 20%. Been with Boat US for 20 years w/o a claim. 

Time to shop it around.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

WoobaGooba said:


> Bump ... Boat US changed over to Geico. My rate increased 20%. Been with Boat US for 20 years w/o a claim.
> 
> Time to shop it around.


let us know... same predicament.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

WoobaGooba said:


> Bump ... Boat US changed over to Geico. My rate increased 20%. Been with Boat US for 20 years w/o a claim.
> 
> Time to shop it around.


That change happened in 2015, so I doubt that was the cause of this year's raise in rates. More likely the increase in damaging storms.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## WoobaGooba (Oct 16, 2012)

miatapaul said:


> That change happened in 2015, so I doubt that was the cause of this year's raise in rates. More likely the increase in damaging storms.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Per the cover letter I received November 2017, my BOAT US insurance is changing from NLFIC to Geico this year. That coincided with the 20% rate bump. Was it the cause? I don't care.

I'm interested to hear if anyone had a similar rate increase, and switched to a better alternative insurance broker.

Thanks


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

That "not returned a phone call" is the first complaint I've heard about IMIS since the 1980's. The really professional thing about them, is that they will go over a policy with you and tell you flat out if you are getting a cheaper quote elsewhere because something has been left out. Like wreck removal or environmental mitigation. And if they can't meet and beat a quote, they'll admit it, no games played.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> That "not returned a phone call" is the first complaint I've heard about IMIS since the 1980's. The really professional thing about them, is that they will go over a policy with you and tell you flat out if you are getting a cheaper quote elsewhere because something has been left out. Like wreck removal or environmental mitigation. And if they can't meet and beat a quote, they'll admit it, no games played.


I sent them emails and a couple of calls that went unreturned about three years ago when I bought my boat. They may just have not been interested in my liability only policy. It would have been nice to hear that from them.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

WoobaGooba said:


> Per the cover letter I received November 2017, my BOAT US insurance is changing from NLFIC to Geico this year. That coincided with the 20% rate bump. Was it the cause? I don't care.
> 
> I'm interested to hear if anyone had a similar rate increase, and switched to a better alternative insurance broker.
> 
> Thanks


That is strange that your just now getting the change, there was a big uproar a few years ago when they first announced the change. Perhaps your size group or something just got changed. I only have liability and went with my auto provider (Progressive) simply because I had purchased the boat and no one was replying to my requests for coverage.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

miatapaul said:


> I went them emails and a couple of called that went unreturned about three years ago when I bought my boat. They may just have not been interested in my liability only policy. It would have been nice to hear that from them.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Interesting. I got the cold shoulder from the main fellow (forget his name) when I ask him about liability-only policies. I was attending an online webinar that he was giving through SSCA.

He made it pretty clear that he didn't even want to talk about them, and seemed annoyed I would even raise the subject. I was disappointed, and quite surprised, given the high regard most people seem to hold IMIS in.


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## Paul_L (Sep 16, 2004)

WoobaGooba said:


> Per the cover letter I received November 2017, my BOAT US insurance is changing from NLFIC to Geico this year. That coincided with the 20% rate bump. Was it the cause? I don't care.
> 
> I'm interested to hear if anyone had a similar rate increase, and switched to a better alternative insurance broker.
> 
> Thanks


I think you mean NFMIC. They are a Berkshire Hathaway company, just as Geico is. Same corporate owners, more a name change.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

IMIS is an agency that represents many insurance providers. That is the approach to use (there are many like this), so the independent agent can describe different coverage technicalities and knows what the given insurance company's respective claims responsiveness will be. Some policies are inexpensive simply because they reduce coverage in the technical language or take a very hard line on claims. Shop more than price!

The other concept that makes these discussions difficult is that insurance is regulated by each individual state in the US. One's experience in Connecticut and not transferable to Rhode Island or New York. The policies are required to be different, to comply with state laws, and the pricing likely will be different too. So may the licensed individual who is selling it to you, as the agency may be more competitive in one state over another.


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## WoobaGooba (Oct 16, 2012)

Again ... per the cover letter ... National Liability & Fire Insurance Company. NLFIC


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## chuck53 (Oct 13, 2009)

I've been with BOAT US for years. No claims, no complaints.
Just sold my boat and am getting ready to buy another. Got a quote from them for the new boat and also talked to a buddy of mine who is an agent. He suggested going with Travelers and they are going to be about 30% less than BOAT US. Since I have my car insurance with them as well, the savings may be even more.


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