# Cal 27 deal of the century or total lemon...



## stagman (Dec 3, 2013)

Just spotted this gem on Yachtworld

1976 CAL 27 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Anyone have any ideas about this? Seems a little too good to be true. If I could cut a check for a Cal 27 in decent condition for 3K I would do it in a heartbeat


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## desert rat (Feb 14, 2013)

If the boat has solid hull solid deck and smooth running engine (preferably fresh water cooled) the additional three to ten thousand you spend on the boat can be spread over several years. If you have a friend who can help with an unofficial survey you can find out 
(sorta) how much work needs to be done on the boat. It could be the gem in the rough.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Most brokers get a 10% cut of the gross sale price from the seller... So this guy *might* make $295.00 if the boat sells at asking price.

I believe that YachtWorld charges a listing fee too...

I smell fish.

However, if I were interested in this boat, I would read the boat inspection trip tips thread carefully to get ideas of what to check. I would be particularly interested in looking for delamination of the deck, and the integrity of the keel / hull connection (sistered bolts would NOT be acceptable to me).

Good luck!


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## wfish11 (Mar 27, 2012)

In this area, FL, brokers won't touch a boat less than $50,000 or the equivalent fee $5,000. Most won't touch an old boat at all. That said the broker may be placing it for a charity at no fee. In any case expect this boat not to be in the best shape, it's a '76 and it's probably been rode hard and put away wet a lot of times. Look long and hard at the mast step area on the deck and inside on the keel to mast post connection. If you think you might buy it hire a surveyor, he might cost you $200-300 but you definitely don't want to be stuck with something that turns out to be a hunk of junk and now you can't get rid of it. Run, don't walk away if you hear things like the engine can be just tuned up or that's a cheap keel repair. Good Luck, but don't expect too much.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

For 3k if she floats and the engine runs have a test sail if sails are in use able condition I would take it judging by the pictures she doesn't look neglected just make sure the keel bolts are in OK to good shape and the standing rigging isn't ready to break m2cw


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Very nice boat, clean and well kept. Go for it. The price is just a realistic reflection of the current boat market. They want it sold quick.


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## kbyte (Jun 6, 2007)

That's a Cal 2-27. My first boat was a Cal 2-27. They are great boats, and there's usually at least one competing in every California to Hawaii Trans-Pac race, so it's not a wimpy boat. You'll probably need to replace the standing rigging, most of the lines, and re-bed a few things, but the biggest concern is the A4. Make sure it's running well.


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## stagman (Dec 3, 2013)

kbyte said:


> That's a Cal 2-27. My first boat was a Cal 2-27. They are great boats, and there's usually at least one competing in every California to Hawaii Trans-Pac race, so it's not a wimpy boat. You'll probably need to replace the standing rigging, most of the lines, and re-bed a few things, but the biggest concern is the A4. Make sure it's running well.


Kbyte,

Assuming those repairs are necessary what would you estimate as the cost for that work?

Also, the boat is in RI so I wonder if it would be worth it to have her shipped to TN. Probably cost 2K just for that.

Kriscross, have you had any personal experience with this boat or is that just an observation from the pics?


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

I have sailed on Cal 2-27 but did not own one. The design is really good: fast, safe, easy to sail. They are also quite well built by the yard. Boat which looks clean and well kept is generally a boat which has been well taken care of. Atomic 4 is a good motor and on a boat like that there is no sense replacing it with a diesel. So to me it seems like a good boat which is very reasonably priced. If you can find a reasonable surveyor (I would not pay more then $400 to have it surveyed) go for it. But you can also read up on what to look for and do your own survey. On a boat like that it is not a rocket science. Or if you know a good sailor, ask him to look at the boat with you.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

I agree that the pix look great... But I have seen this done too many times;

Reality vs Picture


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

eherlihy said:


> I agree that the pix look great... But I have seen this done too many times;
> 
> Reality vs Picture


Looks like a walking dead episode


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## gamayun (Aug 20, 2009)

A friend has a Cal 2-27 that she sails on SF Bay. It's a sturdy boat that I think was bought for around $5K a number of years ago, but I would not say it's fast. It could be a good deal, like all boats of a certain vintage, that wholly depends on how it has been maintained over the years. There's a lot of info on the boats and they were made for California conditions (hence the Cal name), so it can handle most things you throw its way, but it's my understanding there is a bigger fleet of them in SoCal, which are rigged for lighter winds. Of course, the first thing you'll probably want to do is put new rigging up -- it's not a happy day if the mast should come down. Check fore deck conditions carefully. They have deck-stepped masts and can get squishy there. Just PM me if you have specific questions and I can inquire with my friend. I would not however, spend more than half the cost on the boat to haul it across country. Seems like there should be decent sub $5K boats all over the place.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

First of all -is that Goldie Hawn pic legit????? Wow. 

Second, although it does look good, when you go look at it think about the $3000 for summer dockage. Same rate as a brand new boat.


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## kbyte (Jun 6, 2007)

There is a difference between the cost to buy a boat and the cost of owning a boat. All the issues being discussed here are just normal maintenance issues that you would have regardless of which boat you bought, or how much you paid. 

All boats will need their standing rigging replaced every few years. 

All boats will need frayed lines replaced. All boats will need hardware re-bedded eventually. Sails have to be replaced, and bottoms have to be done. 

That's all just the cost of owning a boat- any boat.

There's no such thing as a $3K, $10K, $100K... sailaway boat


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

Sal Paradise said:


> First of all -is that Goldie Hawn pic legit????? Wow.
> 
> Second, although it does look good, when you go look at it think about the $3000 for summer dockage. Same rate as a brand new boat.


Holy crap are you sure 3k for summer mooring glad I'm on the west coast 3k would cover a full year in my moorage for that 27 ft cal including the meter power are you sure o that moorin price also wouldn't matter what boat you d mooraage is cost of ownership cant be put with cost of purchase of the boat in question. (3k WOW)


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## hellsop (Jun 3, 2014)

newhaul said:


> Holy crap are you sure 3k for summer mooring glad I'm on the west coast 3k would cover a full year in my moorage for that 27 ft cal including the meter power are you sure o that moorin price also wouldn't matter what boat you d mooraage is cost of ownership cant be put with cost of purchase of the boat in question. (3k WOW)


Bremerton's marina is VERY bargain-oriented. A while back, they were offering two year's mooring for the price of one year, if paid up front. That same $3000 will get you 4-6 months of mooring in someplace two miles from the nearest laundry in northern CA, and about three months in southern CA. I've half considered buying ANY boat and parking it there just to make sure I've got a spot when I move west in a few years.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

hellsop said:


> Bremerton's marina is VERY bargain-oriented. A while back, they were offering two year's mooring for the price of one year, if paid up front. That same $3000 will get you 4-6 months of mooring in someplace two miles from the nearest laundry in northern CA, and about three months in southern CA. I've half considered buying ANY boat and parking it there just to make sure I've got a spot when I move west in a few years.


Heck Foss harbor in Tacoma a private moorage is only $9.50 a foot for a 40 ft slip and small boats not needing power are only $6.97 a foot and that price includes all taxes Slip Rental | Foss Harbor Marina in Tacoma, Washington also there are plenty of slips so no need to pre park


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## Puddin'_Tain (Feb 14, 2014)

hellsop said:


> ... That same $3000 will get you 4-6 months of mooring in someplace two miles from the nearest laundry in northern CA, and about three months in southern CA. I've half considered buying ANY boat and parking it there just to make sure I've got a spot when I move west in a few years.


Some places are certainly that expensive, but I imagine that you can find over-priced moorage for you boat just about anywhere if you look hard enough. We pay about $3700/year to keep a 27' boat in a slip in SoCal. Water and WiFi included, electric is extra (but never amounts to much). Shore-side bathrooms, showers, and laundry. Many places are quite a bit cheaper, particularly in LA/Long Beach Harbor.

However, the points some have made about the initial investment in a boat verses the actual cost of ownership are quite valid. No matter where you keep a boat it will still cost a substantial fraction of the purchase price (if not more than the purchase price) to keep her there. It will also cost a fair fraction of the purchase price to keep her in usable condition, more to keep her in "Bristol" condition. Everything adds up. With slip fees, hull cleaning, regular maintenance, occasional bigger ticket items (sails, standing rigging, etc.), insurance, and everything else, whether you spend $2k, $8k, or $30k on an older boat won't make a huge difference to your total expenditures after a few years.

If you like the boat, cut the best deal that you can, and then get ready to start writing lots of checks. That made sound jaded, but it is how it is.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

A quick Google got this Slip Rentals in the Heart of San Francisco | Pier 39 Marina in downtown San Francisco a 36 ft perminate slip just under 400 a month or just under 4800 a year and that I would consider to be a prime nor cal location


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## i_amcdn (Jul 4, 2012)

I have sailed many times with my friend on his 2-27. I think it is a solid boat and @ his club the racers were sad that he bought it and did not race it because it was known as a fast boat. He has put more $ into it than he paid for it but it shows with new cushions, bimini, new fuel tankand stove. 
He is 6'2" and one of their criteria was that he be able to stand up when below deck.
His has a Farymann Diesel, 1 cylinder, nicknamed Thumper. It has always started except one weekend when we were bashing our way home directly by the Toronto Islands and it quit. Fuel fileters: check. Fuel :Check. Turns out our bashing had loosened some caulking inside the fuel tank and it was sucked up into the fuel line.

Unfortunately they have decided that 2015 will be their last year of sailing.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157626895183672/


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## Gladrags1 (Apr 9, 2003)

The boat looks to be in good shape. These boats are simple so it is easy to check out. Contact seller and have a conversation about maintenance; condition of keel joint, sails, and engine. There weren't any pictures of the engine from what I could remember. Pictures are hard to go by in any case. The biggest question in my mind would be the state of the engine as there would be few spare parts for the Atomic 4 around. You might check out cost of repowering to keep in back of your mind in case you find out that the engine is too tired to go on. When you have your conversation with the seller, ask about what quirks the engine has. If you need to repowering, that will be your largest cost so you can assess if this boat is ultimately affordable. 

To me, I think that the price is good for that boat which seems to be well looked after. It's worth looking at it in person with a mindset of writing a check right away when you like what you see. 

Good luck!

Tod


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## hellsop (Jun 3, 2014)

newhaul said:


> A quick Google got this Slip Rentals in the Heart of San Francisco | Pier 39 Marina in downtown San Francisco a 36 ft perminate slip just under 400 a month or just under 4800 a year and that I would consider to be a prime nor cal location


13' wide slip means it's okay for that Cal 27, and probably up to about a 33' Hunter, but probably *not* for something that's actually 36 feet. Those would probably have only a couple of inches each side of the pilings. Also add $4 for parking per 12-hour block in the ramp that's 1/4 mile and two flights of stairs from the gate, unless you're taking transit to your boat. Loading and unloading your car or truck closer than the ramp is limited to a 15 minutes, between 2:30 AM to 11:30 AM. And then there's the sea lions that like to haul out onto docks and boats. They're protected, so you're not allowed to molest them. You get to wait for them to leave. And, being on Pier 39, it's NEVER quiet. Gotta love or at least tolerate 3000 tourists every day, fireworks overhead fairly regularly, the weekly air raid siren test, the being awakened at 7 AM by a cruise ship playing "When You Wish Upon A Star" on the horns a couple of mornings per week if you overnight or last long enough to get a liveaboard slot. And then there's Fleet Week....

I know Pier 39 pretty well. It's idiosyncratic as hell, and I'd cheerfully park there, but it's really a very acquired taste and not something a lot of people would put up with. Nor is it $3000 a year with included power.


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## hellsop (Jun 3, 2014)

Gladrags1 said:


> The biggest question in my mind would be the state of the engine as there would be few spare parts for the Atomic 4 around.


Moyer Marine's got the A4 pretty well covered. I'd be more worried about getting parts for a 25-year-old Volvo than an A4.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

hellsop said:


> 13' wide slip means it's okay for that Cal 27, and probably up to about a 33' Hunter, but probably *not* for something that's actually 36 feet. Those would probably have only a couple of inches each side of the pilings. Also add $4 for parking per 12-hour block in the ramp that's 1/4 mile and two flights of stairs from the gate, unless you're taking transit to your boat. Loading and unloading your car or truck closer than the ramp is limited to a 15 minutes, between 2:30 AM to 11:30 AM. And then there's the sea lions that like to haul out onto docks and boats. They're protected, so you're not allowed to molest them. You get to wait for them to leave. And, being on Pier 39, it's NEVER quiet. Gotta love or at least tolerate 3000 tourists every day, fireworks overhead fairly regularly, the weekly air raid siren test, the being awakened at 7 AM by a cruise ship playing "When You Wish Upon A Star" on the horns a couple of mornings per week if you overnight or last long enough to get a liveaboard slot. And then there's Fleet Week....
> 
> I know Pier 39 pretty well. It's idiosyncratic as hell, and I'd cheerfully park there, but it's really a very acquired taste and not something a lot of people would put up with. Nor is it $3000 a year with included power.


I would not mind any of the walking I don't drive and the noise well hearing aids have removable batteries also except for the short length our Spencer would fit quite well its 42 ft with a beam of 11`6" I personally don't like the newer beammy boats its also as I said just under 4800 a year the 3 k was for a smaller slip in a nice marina here and I'm sure I could find cheaper marinas in the bay area


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