# Is external rudder a good idea?



## Morild (Mar 31, 2013)

I have my eyes set on my next new-to-me-boat, but as you can see from the picture it has the rudder mounted on the transom, instead of a more tradtional through-hull rudder.

I don't see that on a lot of bots, and I wonder what are the downsides of this?

I like to think that it easier to inspect and less holes in the boat to worry about, but what am I not seeing? 

I have attached a picture, I hope, but if that doesn't work here is link to the same picture: 
http://sailboatdata.com/imagehelper.asp?file_id=9998


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

Its bad for ocean and blue water cruises. My boat is like this. Basically you are relying on one or two thru bolts and a tiller for your boats steering and since it is above the water line hard wave action from the stern will slam it hard over repeatedly loosening this connection. 
If your a coastal cruiser no problem- if you want to do long trips over blue water it is not a good set up.


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## dvuyxx (Jun 23, 2009)

I know that the Hake Seaward ultra-shoal draft boats have an external rudder like that ... even with wheel steering. But, that is obviously so that it can eliminate draft when desired. Even their 32' and 46' foot models can practically pull up onto a beach with their centerboard up.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

The largest problem I see is not about the use of it on the boat.. it's, well it just seems like way too many people buy boats with the rudder missing! Every week it seems there's a "looking for rudder for a -----name of boat here----


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## Morild (Mar 31, 2013)

deniseO30 said:


> The largest problem I see is not about the use of it on the boat.. it's, well it just seems like way too many people buy boats with the rudder missing! Every week it seems there's a "looking for rudder for a -----name of boat here----


Ok, I had never thought of that! Do they get stolen? 

The mounts seem to be very sturdy and oversized. 
I sail in Denmark, where the furthest away you can get from shore at any point is 12 nm  so definately coastal use.

Any other downsides? Otherwise I still like it.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

I like transom mounted rudders - they are simple, and when properly mounted - very reliable. The only downside tends to be weather helm when sailing to weather, but if the tiller is long enough that is not a big problem.


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

limits where you can put an outboard. Generally gives more usable cockpit room if you don't have a wheel. For shoal boats popping up the rudder and raising the centerboard and get into thin water.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

There are some larger boats that use them. And some boats that are Norwegian inspired have huge tiller and rudder that follows the curve of the stern down. Very very nautical.


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## Morild (Mar 31, 2013)

krisscross said:


> I like transom mounted rudders - they are simple, and when properly mounted - very reliable. The only downside tends to be weather helm when sailing to weather, but if the tiller is long enough that is not a big problem.


I don't quite understand the part about weather helm.
Will the mount of rudder on the transom give the boat more/harder weatherhelm than if not ?


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Morild said:


> I don't quite understand the part about weather helm.
> Will the mount of rudder on the transom give the boat more/harder weatherhelm than if not ?


Transom mounted rudder makes it harder to steer (especially in strong wind when going upwind) compared to all other types of rudders. That can be counteracted to some degree by reducing sail area and having a long tiller. I have a 20 foot boat with transom mounted rudder (Mirage 5.5m) and that is my observation. I made a longer tiller for it, which was a very easy job. Some people make an extension to their regular tiller, which they put on only in rough weather, so there is more room in the cockpit.


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## SVTatia (May 7, 2007)

Harborless said:


> Its bad for ocean and blue water cruises.


You are not getting proper responses...

I have not heard that an outboard rudder affects sailing capabilities or trim. I have over 40K ocean miles with an outboard rudder and it can not get any simpler.

One less hole under the boat
Simple arrangement, simple to fix
Easy if mounting a wind-vane or autopilot
Etc, Etc.

Unfortunately when I was looking for my next boat with an outboard ruder I had to compromise as they are hard to come by at 30 feet plus, but my preference is still valid.


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## SVTatia (May 7, 2007)

krisscross said:


> I like transom mounted rudders - they are simple, and when properly mounted - very reliable. The only downside tends to be weather helm when sailing to weather, but if the tiller is long enough that is not a big problem.


You mean that by fixing the tiller you reduced weather helm?



krisscross said:


> Transom mounted rudder makes it harder to steer (especially in strong wind when going upwind) compared to all other types of rudders. That can be counteracted to some degree by reducing sail area and having a long tiller. .


Krisscross, I am not sure if this is correct - that is not a rudder type problem, its a small tiller, no?


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## tschmidty (Sep 25, 2008)

Or alternatively to make it easier to steer, just balance your rudder some, ie. have some of the rudder forward of the pivot axis. This is the only real reason that they are harder to steer, all (probably?) spade rudders are balanced to some degree which is what makes a tiller steered boat with a spade rudder have a lighter feel.

Weather helm is a product of sail placement, trim, and hull form to some degree. There isn't an inherent reason why a transom hung rudder will display more weather helm, it is just that most of them are not balanced to any real degree so have a harder feel. And they are more susceptible to following seas banging them around but not a whole heck of a lot more.

So KrissKross, if you ever build a new rudder, balance it by putting some of the area forward of the pivot and you'll be amazed how much more lively it feels. Then make it a nice NACA 0012 foil and you'll also be amazed at the low speed responsiveness.


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## Mechsmith (Jun 7, 2009)

Weather helm is a function of how the rudder is hung. If the extended line through the center of the hinges goes through the effective center of of the rudder there will be no weather helm.

This is difficult to do with some hull designs. A balancing tab on a skeg or keel mounted rudder would be a good crab pot catcher.


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## tschmidty (Sep 25, 2008)

Not exactly, a HEAVY helm which is CAUSED by weather helm is a product of what you said. Even a perfectly balanced rudder can still have weather helm, which is the boat turning into the wind. The placement of the rudder can affect weather helm, but not the actual balancing part of it.


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## Morild (Mar 31, 2013)

Thanks a lot for all the useful information.
It doesnt have a skeg, but a little of the rudder area is in front of the pivot-axis.
You can see it on the drawings here:
NORDSHIP 808 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

SVTatia said:


> You mean that by fixing the tiller you reduced weather helm?
> 
> Krisscross, I am not sure if this is correct - that is not a rudder type problem, its a small tiller, no?


Longer tiller requires less force to counteract the pressure on the rudder. But the pressure increases quite a bit when the wind is very strong and I'm going to weather. Part of my particular problem is a relatively small swing keel of my boat, which causes quite a bit of leeway, requiring keeping the rudder more sideways to stay on course. So in my case it is a combined effect of several factors. I still love the fact that my transom rudder does not require a hole in my boat.


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

Harborless said:


> Its bad for ocean and blue water cruises. ...


Huh?


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Nice boats! 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a transom-mounted rudder for racing or cruising, coastal or ocean voyages - and whoever said there was knows nothing of what they speak..

There are major advantages - like less holes in the boat and the ability to repair or jury-rig something without having to haul the boat out to do so - and perhaps some minor disadvantages if you're hanging an outboard on the back also, but from a performance point of view it makes absolutely no difference at all... it simply comes down to personal preference and the abilities of the yacht's designer.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

my parents grampian had a transom hung rudder. It never got in the way of the outboard


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

I too don't understand how a transom hung rudder relates to weather helm

Surely that is a function of the force exerted by the sails and the resistance of the keel and rudder.

Putting the rudder further back on the transom increases it's leaverage compared to an inset rudder, so the force required to move the tiller should be less. I think anyway.

Calling BobPerry clean up required on .............................................................


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## Morild (Mar 31, 2013)

Thank you all very much for the input, it was of great help.
I will allow my self to summarize the different opinions, if another kind soul has the same question, and comes across this thread.

1. It is an advantage with one less hole in the boat to worry about
2. Provided that the rudder-mounts are properly sized (as with any ruddertype), it is a completely safe setup
3. A lot of very seaworthy (and "blue water") boats has this setup
4. Weather-helm is not related to the way the rudder is mounted
5. It might be a challenge to mount an outboard motor if so desired
6. A lage wave crashing from behind, could induce higher stress to the ruddermounts


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## SlowButSteady (Feb 17, 2010)

7. In an anchorage or marina it is also a bit more vulnerable to getting bashed by another boat, et cetera.

8. If you pay slip/moorage fees based on the length of your boat it will cost you a few more bucks/month.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

krisscross said:


> Transom mounted rudder makes it harder to steer (especially in strong wind when going upwind) compared to all other types of rudders. That can be counteracted to some degree by reducing sail area and having a long tiller. I have a 20 foot boat with transom mounted rudder (Mirage 5.5m) and that is my observation. I made a longer tiller for it, which was a very easy job. Some people make an extension to their regular tiller, which they put on only in rough weather, so there is more room in the cockpit.


Certainly the helm may feel "heavier" on an outboard rudder, but that is purely a result of the unbalanced nature of the rudder. Some would prefer to say the outboard rudder has more "feel". Weather helm is a completely different problem. Weather helm is when excessive rudder ANGLE is required to keep the boat from rounding up. It has nothing to do with whether the rudder is transom mounted or not. It has everything to do with sail trim, rig tune, heel angle, etc. If anything, theoretically, a transom hung rudder would be more powerful than the same rudder hung under the boat because it is a greater distance from that fulcrum that is the keel so it provides a greater mechanical advantage. (Of course there will be those that would argue that the outboard rudder loses efficiency because it doesn't have the bottom of the boat providing an "end plate" effect.... but we won't go there!)

There are a great many high performance boats that use outboard rudders, and I can guarantee you that they don't suffer from any kind of weather helm inherent to the rudder design! Look at the J-24; if anything they suffer from chronic LEE helm and they have outboard rudders!

More practical considerations:

My last boat was a race boat with an outboard rudder, and that allowed me to remove my rudder so that I didn't have to put antifouling on it. I just stowed the rudder below! If your rudder gets damaged, you can remove it for repair with the boat in the water.

If your rudder gets fouled with seaweed or a crab trap line you can easily see it and clear it. On a rudder hung under your boat the rope could get jammed between the top of the rudder and the hull, requiring a swim to clear.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

Morild said:


> 6. A lage wave crashing from behind, could induce higher stress to the ruddermounts


That's a fallacy based on the stern supposedly protecting the rudder from behind. Unless half your stern is dragging in the water, a large wave crashing from behind will put *just as much* stress on an inboard rudder except that the stresses aren't visible from the cockpit and are transmitted into the rudder tube instead (not "felt" at the tiller so much).

Because it isn't protected by the stern, a transom-mounted rudder is certainly more likley to be damaged if you're not careful whilst reversing into a marina pen or when launching off a trailer (in which case you'd damage your stern instead), but, as ST pointed out above, for most people the advantages of being able to more easily fix a transom-mounted rudder outweigh any apparent disadvantages created by the location.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Al my designs have out board rudders as I consider it the only intelligent place to put a rudder on an offshore cruiser. As the Pardys pointed out "They put rudders on the back of a plane instead of the middle for good reason."It drastically simplifies self steering and inside steering, or autohelm steering via a trimtab on it's trailing edge, making such systems exponentially stronger than any of the options available for inboard rudders.
I see no real advantages for an inboard rudder on an offshore boat ,and can't understand why so many designers make that obvious mistake.
Lack of offshore cruising experience among them may be one reason.


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## Shinook (Jul 13, 2012)

I was reading about Black Feathers the other day, the Cal 20 that successfully sailed the solo transpac in 2008. 

His rudder failed a good ways out (fiberglass fatigue, supposedly) and he was able to replace it easily with some wrangling. He pulled the broken rudder out of the gudgeons and was able to wrestle the old wooden one back into place, allowing him to continue on as normal. The process didn't sound easy, but it was accomplished without a jury rig or serious issue. 

Granted, the Cal 20 is basically a big dinghy and most of the larger boats I've looked at with outboard rudders would be substantially more challenging to repair at sea if something failed (e.g. Flicka, Westsail). It still seems to me that, even with those boats that have massive rudders in place off the transom, if something failed, the repair would be easier than dealing with something run through the hull.

It's also easier to inspect, which is a big plus to me.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

The outboard hung rudder can have one serious fault: at higher speed and when a boat is well heeled over such a rudder can easily 'ventilate' or 'suck air down along the lower pressure side of the rudder' and the rudder will/can lose ALL control depending on the amount of ventilation. 

Couple this with a helmsman who doesnt understand 'weather helm' requiring more rudder angle to overcorrect for adverse helm; include the vulnerability to 'ventilate' ........ and you can expect an unexpected 'pirouette' / unexpected rounding up as a worst case scenario in your future. 

Stern hung rudders can easily 'ventilate'. 
Totally submerged rudders have great difficulty in 'ventilating'.
Advantage - submerged rudders


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Mechsmith said:


> Weather helm is a function of how the rudder is hung. If the extended line through the center of the hinges goes through the effective center of of the rudder there will be no weather helm.


This statement is just wrong. No recognition of the how the center of effort of the sails, keel area, etc. affects weather helm. It has almost nothing to do with the relationship between the center of the rudder area and the hinge location.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

RichH said:


> The outboard hung rudder can have one serious fault: at higher speed and when a boat is well heeled over such a rudder can easily 'ventilate' or 'suck air down along the lower pressure side of the rudder' and the rudder will/can lose ALL control depending on the amount of ventilation.
> 
> Couple this with a helmsman who doesnt understand 'weather helm' requiring more rudder angle to overcorrect for adverse helm; include the vulnerability to 'ventilate' ........ and you can expect an unexpected 'pirouette' / unexpected rounding up as a worst case scenario in your future.
> 
> ...


That's complete rubbish, Rich.. C'mon, surely you know that. 

*Any* modern boat that is is "well heeled" will have enough of the rudder exposed to 'ventilate' and potentially broach very soon thereafter if the helmsman isn't careful. You don't have to compete in many races or look in many books to see that.

If a single-rudder boat is so badly set up that the rudder doesn't "ventilate" to some extent at full heel, then dragging the tail around a racecourse won't win you any races either.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

RichH said:


> The outboard hung rudder can have one serious fault: at higher speed and when a boat is well heeled over such a rudder can easily 'ventilate' or 'suck air down along the lower pressure side of the rudder' and the rudder will/can lose ALL control depending on the amount of ventilation.
> 
> Couple this with a helmsman who doesnt understand 'weather helm' requiring more rudder angle to overcorrect for adverse helm; include the vulnerability to 'ventilate' ........ and you can expect an unexpected 'pirouette' / unexpected rounding up as a worst case scenario in your future.
> 
> ...


Yes that is related to the "end plate" effect that I touched on. Of course the scenario you describe really only comes into play when the boat is already more "out of shape" than it should be. In the case of the boat carrying excessive heel, and so much weather helm that the rudder is on the verge of stalling chances are the inboard rudder is also being exposed to air and turbulent surface water. In that case it too is in danger of "ventilating".

Having said that, it stands to reason that an outboard rudder could be more prone to that problem sooner than the inboard rudder.


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

5 centuries of explorers, ocean crossers, circumnavigators pirates, privateers, fleet admirals and conquistadors found that transom hung rudders worked just fine. Ships lost usually weren't lost due to the rudder design, but to every damn thing else.
The upside of a transom hung rudder is that there's one less below waterline intrusion, and any repairs are much, much easier to effect.


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## Morild (Mar 31, 2013)

Again, thanks a lot everyone, I'm now very confident that I am going to like this rudder, and the missing hole in the boat 

Regarding the mounts, I took this photo, and I believe they are quite sturdy for a 26' boat? There are wide backplates on the inside.

I've talked to a few owners that have had this kind of boat for many years, and no one have had trouble, or heard of trouble with the rudder.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

You have nothing to worry about! The hardware is plenty strong enough. Relax and enjoy your boat!


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

I think you will have many happy years using that rudder as long as you keep an eye on it.. like anything else on a boat. Do the Maintance and repairs and she will keep you happily afloat for years.

I am a big fan of Cat boats. Those veseels have -huge- "barndoors" for rudders usually. With them you cannot just hard over the rudder to tack, but should do a more calm arch through the wind. With a rudder that size, it does not just stall, but turns into a brake


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Hartley18 said:


> That's complete rubbish, Rich.. C'mon, surely you know that.
> 
> *Any* modern boat that is is "well heeled" will have enough of the rudder exposed to 'ventilate' and potentially broach very soon thereafter if the helmsman isn't careful. You don't have to compete in many races or look in many books to see that.
> 
> If a single-rudder boat is so badly set up that the rudder doesn't "ventilate" to some extent at full heel, then dragging the tail around a racecourse won't win you any races either.


Maybe youve not noticed the trend of dual rudders on many high end, wide beamed, flat bottomed racing boats for the purpose of keeping at least one rudder fully submerged .... something that the fast sailing , 'skimming dish' ILYA scows have been using since the 1890s. Home
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

A friend said he heard that outboard rudders were more prone to failure, but only those on double enders. I notice that most double enders have the top pintle well below the rail, leaving the top portion of the rudder unsupported, and a bend and a long circuitous route from the top pintle to the end of the tiller.This could be the cause of the problem, as transom sterned boats dont have this problem, and have the top pintle at the top of the transom . It is yet another case of style over substance, easily rectified by putting a filler piece in, to straighten the stern, and put a top pintle at deck level in.
How would such a rudder with a deck level pintle be more vulenerable to damage than an expensive servo pendulum windvane hung on the transom? It seems such a rudder, with a trimtab self steering would be comparatively bulletporoof, and if the vane rig was built out of sch 40 SS pipe, it would be easier to straighten out if bent, anywhere, with no fancy tools. With the bottom of a rudder raked foreward ,it would be more inclined to pull water up it rather than pull air down it, altho anti cavitation plates at the surface ,similar to those used on outboard motors would be an option.
One could easily double the size of gudgeons and pintles with no penalty for doing so.


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## ShoalFinder (May 18, 2012)

I had a rudder split a few miles offshore. (I had just gotten the boat, and there was obviously some damage which had occurred when the previous owner had it. He told me he had hit a rock but I did not see any damage when I looked at it.) I pulled my rudder into the cockpit, shot some screws through braces, and put the thing back on.

That's tough to do without a transom-hung rudder.


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## dylanwinter1 (Jan 15, 2010)

never had anything else

easier to repair and to spot problems

outboard in a well

perfecto

snaps here

The story of Katie L in pictures « Keep Turning Left


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

No competent captain would ever venture out in a boat with a transom hung rudder.

Except maybe Columbus, Magellan, Drake, Cook, or Blackbeard. :laugher

IMHO whether you're discussing guitars, cars, cameras, guns, or sailboats, there will be people who over-emphasize one particular feature or design point, and condemn any product that possesses what they consider to be the offending feature. 

Show me the boat that can't be criticized in some way. Cats don't point, gasoline powered boats explode, skeg rudders get caught on mermaids, full keel boats won't back up, and trimarans.....look silly.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

I like outboard rudders. If they are well designed they can be as strong as any other rudder. I think Tom gave you a very good overview on outboard rudders based on a lot of experience.


I had one on my own last boat. The boat backed up like a champ.
I like them because they are salty!


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

As far as I can see on a smaller boat like the one in the picture it is neither good nor bad. As a boat get larger and ventures farther offshore, an outboard rudder is a lot more difficult to use as it is a one to one ratio. However, I love outboard rudders for offshore cruising because it is so cheap and easy to build on a reliable windvane that works superlatively, a major plus.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Capta:
I agree with you.
One thing about an outboard rudder is that it gets the head of the tiller out of the cockpit and this can free up cockpit space. It also moves the rudder planform aft and on a small boat this can help with directional stability. On a big boat with wheel steering there are some ways to control the outbpoard rudder but I have never seen one that I thought was not a bit clumsy. You have far more steering options with an inboard rudder.

The outboard rudder on my own 26'er was absolutely perfect.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

With an inboard rudder you lose the most useful streering option of all, steering via trimtab either for a vane , manual steering, or inside steering. I dont see any options lost with an outboard rudder. 
An ex airforce friend mentioned a large cargo plane which was totally controled by trimtabs. At rest, all the control surfaces hung down, and only came to life as the plane started moving. It was so powerful that they had to put in some resistance, as a pilot could easily rip the wings off, without realizing how much force he was putting them under.


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Great Brent. I comforted to know you and I still disagree on just about everything.

You have to move the rudder. When you do you will need something to connect it to the wheel. With an inboard rudder you will have more options in this area.
Maybe not in Swainland but in the rest of the world it works like that. I suggest you take a lok at any Edson Catalog. There are lots of steering arrangement options in the catalog. I know that you would probably prefer welding something of your own design up but lots and lots of sailors use Edson.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

bobperry said:


> Capta:
> I agree with you.
> One thing about an outboard rudder is that it gets the head of the tiller out of the cockpit and this can free up cockpit space. It also moves the rudder planform aft and on a small boat this can help with directional stability.
> ......


Bob, right there are the reasons, AIUI, that Joe Adams used an outboard rudder for his highly-successful 'Adams 20' design late last century. That's 66 feet of racing yacht capable of +20 knots hour after hour in strong winds and a Tasman ocean swell.

Not sure I'd call a 66ft boat "small", but it's a relative term I suppose..


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## jak3b (Apr 24, 2011)

The Adams 13 had an outboard rudder as well.
The Adams 13 Metre Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

jak3b said:


> The Adams 13 had an outboard rudder as well.
> The Adams 13 Metre Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org


Many of Adam's designs did, especially his racers.. but the '20 was the largest of them all.

He seemed to believe that an outboard rudder was best for a racing yacht and an inboard rudder on a cruising yacht. Modern racing yacht design seems to have moved away from that now due to the 'ventilation' issues described by Rich.. but it hasn't necessarily made any difference in winning races.


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## Morild (Mar 31, 2013)

I eventually took ownership of a Nordship 808 with the external rudder.
After having sailed it during the summer i love it. It responds like a dinghy and allows for easy manuouvering in the habours.
Thanks for great advice.
I have enclosed a picture of the night in June when I took ownership of "Nordild"


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## bobperry (Apr 29, 2011)

Looks very nice to me.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks for the follow-up. I like to see questions asked, answered, and verified in the real world... you haven't ventilated your rudder while heeled over, or broken it from a following sea, I hope?


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## Morild (Mar 31, 2013)

bobperry said:


> Looks very nice to me.


Has been very nice to sail so far Bob 
The boat was designed by a danish designer Jan Kjaerulf, who died about 8 years ago. He designed a lot of succesfull boats in his career, and with this I am very happy


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## Morild (Mar 31, 2013)

Barquito said:


> Thanks for the follow-up. I like to see questions asked, answered, and verified in the real world... you haven't ventilated your rudder while heeled over, or broken it from a following sea, I hope?


First, I posted because I like to see follow-ups on questions asked, so I felt that it was a good idea, even though it is an old thread.
Ventilated... uhm yes maybe a bit  but nothing broken, and the mounts are very solid so I feel quite confident about that part.


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## AlaskaMC (Aug 19, 2010)

bobperry said:


> Capta:
> I agree with you.
> One thing about an outboard rudder is that it gets the head of the tiller out of the cockpit and this can free up cockpit space. It also moves the rudder planform aft and on a small boat this can help with directional stability. On a big boat with wheel steering there are some ways to control the outbpoard rudder but I have never seen one that I thought was not a bit clumsy. You have far more steering options with an inboard rudder.
> 
> The outboard rudder on my own 26'er was absolutely perfect.


So that is Perrywinkle. I have heard you mention the boat but never seen a pic. Very nice! What happened to her?

Oh yea, that was a hijack. I have a barn door on the back of my boat. Works great. Love it.


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

To anyone out there who's boat is suffering from weather helm I can help.
Tune your rig, if that doesn't work buy new sails, if that doesn't work learn to shape and trim your sails. if that doesn't if that doesn't work buy a new boat the guy who designed yours was completely incompetent.  I'm just saying...it isn't rocket science.


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## socal c25 (Nov 1, 2013)

barefootnavigator said:


> To anyone out there who's boat is suffering from weather helm I can help.
> Tune your rig, if that doesn't work buy new sails, if that doesn't work learn to shape and trim your sails. if that doesn't if that doesn't work buy a new boat the guy who designed yours was completely incompetent.  I'm just saying...it isn't rocket science.


YES... Number one cause of weather helm is over trimmed sails, Two is an improperly tuned rig.


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## Morild (Mar 31, 2013)

Here is a short video from last sunday, with the rudder doi'n it's job upwind


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