# Freedom 40/40



## jlodolce (Feb 25, 2008)

My wife and I are life long power boaters with minimal sailing experience. We are committed to switching to sail. We have taken some basic lessons which brought back memory of how nice sailing is. We Cruise Lake Ontario, but I am also very experienced in the salt from Cape Cod to Florida. I have very extensive naviagation experience. We are trying to figure out what boat to start with. We have looked at most of the common stock boats (Beneteau, Hunter, Catalina, Jeanneau). They are all very pretty and emphasize the creature comforts. But I am not sure they are real sailboats. I am leaning toward a 1995 Freedom 40/40 because of all that I have read and been told of their quality and sailability.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

The 40/40 is a fine and innovative boat and with the unstayed rig and camber jib it is very simple to sail. Certainly for Lake Ontario one would be well suited and a nice boat to own. But if you plan to sail further afield you should note some limitations:
The mast is 67' high making the East Coast ICW off limits for you. 
Ditto the standard draft at 6'9" which will make East Coast and Bahamas cruising problematic BUT the shoal draft version would work fine.
I am not a fan of spade rudders for cruising (as they are exposed to damage potential) and a spade with a carbon fiber rudder shaft is going to be particularly difficult to get fixed except at a major yard. 
You haven't said anything about sailing beyond Ontario, so these issues may not be issues for you at all. Just thought you'd want to consider them if you are planning to go further afield.


----------



## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Our old dockmate has had one for three years now - bought it to replace his Pearson 36, thinking it would be easier to sail as he reached retirement age.

Used to sail daily with the P36, but hasn't been out more than a dozen times in 3 years - turned into a dock condo. Many marina folks think the huge mainsail has something to do with it.


----------



## jlodolce (Feb 25, 2008)

Tell me more about why you think the huge mainsail would keep a sailor at the dock?


----------



## max-on (Mar 30, 2004)

jlodolce said:


> We are trying to figure out what boat to start with. We have looked at most of the common stock boats (Beneteau, Hunter, Catalina, Jeanneau). They are all very pretty and emphasize the creature comforts. But I am not sure they are real sailboats.


Welcome to the board Jlodolce!!!

You have a lot in common with many of us here!


----------



## jlodolce (Feb 25, 2008)

Cameraderie,

We don't anticipate leaving the lake. It is a big enough ocean for me. I've done the intercoastal, and that becomes a pretty tedious trip. Especially when from Lake Ontario, you have to either go out the St. Lawrence, around Nova Scotia and Cape Cod, or down the Oswego canal then the Erie Canal then the Hudson just to get to the intercoastal. Both of these arms of the trip can take several weeks. I think the 40/40 would become a bit small for my wife and I for that long of time. I'd have to hide the flare gun from her in case she got tired of me.

I don't know if you are familiar with Lake Ontario, but it is a formidable body of water. I am much more comfortable on the open Atlantic than Lake Ontario at times. It's a big body of water. We cruised around the lake one year, and was almost 500 miles around. I want a good solid boat under me when I am out there.


----------



## jlodolce (Feb 25, 2008)

Max-on; Thanks.


----------



## sab30 (Oct 11, 2006)

jlodolce said:


> My wife and I are life long power boaters with minimal sailing experience. We are committed to switching to sail. We have taken some basic lessons which brought back memory of how nice sailing is. We Cruise Lake Ontario, but I am also very experienced in the salt from Cape Cod to Florida. I have very extensive naviagation experience. We are trying to figure out what boat to start with. We have looked at most of the common stock boats (Beneteau, Hunter, Catalina, Jeanneau). They are all very pretty and emphasize the creature comforts. But I am not sure they are real sailboats. I am leaning toward a 1995 Freedom 40/40 because of all that I have read and been told of their quality and sailability.


Hey Jldolce.

Welcome..your post caught my eye as my wife and I have been on the search for our next boat. I currently own a 36ft Hunter which works well for us presently based on our parameters..our next boat will have much different requirements and I have looked a lot, read a lot, asked alot, and viewed a lot of boats..we had settled on 3 that would make our short list..a Freedom 40, an IP 40 and a Caliber 40..ok ok and maybe the Elan 434..I really feel that we will settle with the Freedom 40 as I just seems to answer all the questions we are asking...problem is it is the only one of the above that we havent viewed but are making arrangements to do that now. I will avoid a LONG post but giving you my explanation for why we specifically think it will work (and why the others arernt quite right for us) but if you want PM me and Ill share what I have...keep in touch with your feedback of the '95 Freedom.


----------



## ImASonOfaSailor (Jun 26, 2007)

That is the way I feel about Lake Erie, its a big enough ocean for me!


----------



## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

The freedom 40 is a really fine boat (I had a 33 cat-ketch, they have some similarities)
I also grew up really close to lake ontario (in between owsego and hannibal, go look THAT up) 

What someone alluded to is the sail on that boat is really large. They were single tracked rather than wrap around so you won't have that little tidbit to deal with. 

Nonetheless, unless you're looking forward to having 
go-rilla arms and have the stamina of Atlas, make sure there is a power solution for raising the sail.


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Paul...you mean like one of these?? 










BTW...Paul...aren't the Freedoms TOTALLY cored in the hull? Any concerns you have seen with that?


----------



## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

the winch buddy is good, I've tried one on the catalina 27, but needs more juice for a bigger boat than that can provide.

I believe all freedoms are balsa, and ....
nope.
if its good enough for Mr. Pearson, Mr. Hoyt, Mr. Mull, (not the designer of the 40) Alerion & TPI (makers of those terribly built ~sarcasm~ j/boats) I'm not going to argue with 'em.


----------



## christyleigh (Dec 17, 2001)

cardiacpaul said:


> the winch buddy is good, I've tried one on the catalina 27, but needs more juice for a bigger boat than that can provide.


But would I be wrong in assuming that you are speaking of a small single speed winch on that c27? Just thinking that a larger 2 speed would make a big difference when trying to raise with a winch buddy? Of course there is always the option of a new $$$$ power winch but I was just wondering about the possible undersizing of some of the earlier winches.


----------



## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

jlodolce said:


> Tell me more about why you think the huge mainsail would keep a sailor at the dock?


Don't have any direct experience with handling that main, just conveying what I heard from others. It does seem to be a factor in his reluctance to go out - since the guy I referred to is a solo-sailor.

I suppose as others have said, a power winch or a strong back are prerequisites, coupled with a Doyle stackpack, or at least lazy jacks for dousing the main.


----------



## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

_"But would I be wrong in assuming that you are speaking of a small single speed winch on that c27? Just thinking that a larger 2 speed would make a big difference when trying to raise with a winch buddy? Of course there is always the option of a new $$$$ power winch but I was just wondering about the possible undersizing of some of the earlier winches."_

Yes, actually, barient 22's 2 speeds. (and 16's,) had a total of 7 winches on that boat, a couple of long handles too.
gotta remember, i'm a cripple...  cute, but crippled.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

It should be a great boat for what you want.

As a Freedom owner I can tell you that you should worry much more about getting the sail down and adding reef-points than about getting the sail up.

On the way up you are usually in control, so that is generally trouble-free or at most work.

Taking it down or reefing on the other hand can be a problem. If the boom is out too far, or you are not close to the eye of the wind when dropping the sail, the sail will not come down, and when a fully battened sail that big starts flogging you don't want to have to come near it. 

The factory reef-points are for "sailing" not for being abused by a storm. I have not been on a 40/40 but you have to have a way of carrying less but efficient sail. The mast adds windage and you will need some kind or storm sail that has a good foil shape if you get caught in a NE. My guess is the jib or stock main reefed will be too much power.

You probably also need additional sail slides of the top of the main sail. Gusts can peel a full roach main like the Freedom right off the mast with plastic slides and with metal slides it could kink the sail track, making it harder to get the sail down. You are not likely to be "saved" by the sails blowing-out either, so you have to have an exit plan.

When Tillotson-Pearson sold off Freedom Yachts they licensed the construction technology as well, so it should be an excellent boat. The above are concerns for any boat with a fully battened large main.


----------



## jlodolce (Feb 25, 2008)

*Freedom 40*

Sab30. I would be happy to read a long email from you. You can send it to me at [email protected] The system wouldn't let me send you a personal message thru their system since I do not have enough postings. Feel free to email me directly.

Guess what, the system won't let me post my full email address without 10 postings either.


----------



## jlodolce (Feb 25, 2008)

True Blue: It does have a good electric winch. Thanks for the heads up regarding the large main.


----------



## jlodolce (Feb 25, 2008)

Fynbo: thanks for the posting. It is helpful.


----------



## Sorcerer33x (Mar 26, 2008)

I'm looking at Freedom 40/40s - I'm told running backstays are good for heavy weather because the carbon fiber mast is pretty springy under certain conditions. Where are you in the process -- will you buy one?


----------



## jlodolce (Feb 25, 2008)

We have finished yacht the survey. The sails and engine are being surveyed separately. We anticipate closing in about a week or so. 

I can't answer your question, since I have not sailed her. In fact my wife and I have done little sailing in our lives (we are adventuresome). My research has given me confidence that it is a very high quality boat, very easy to sail, but also very safe. I have a lifetime on the water, and am an experienced navigator, but all with power boats.


----------



## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

jlo,

I own a Freedom 45, and we love her. The construction quality is very good, the liveability is very good, and it gives reasonably good sailing performance. There are issues here and there, but what boat doesn't have them.

Your 40/40 likely will perform better because I'm willing to bet you haven't loaded it down with cra_, uh, required gear for big and little sailors alike!

If you have specific questions, feel free to PM or email me.

Also, you should call a guy in Warren, Rhode Island who is the world's living authority about all things Freedom. His name is Paul Dennis. He is the former plant manager for Freedom, and he now owns a small yard (Warren River Boatworks) specializing in Freedoms, though he services other boats too. Paul probably is the single best craftsman/repair/innovator/installer I personally have met in the marine industry. I'm not impugning anyone else, but Paul is absolutely fabulous. There is a fair chance that he knows your boat specifically, only because he may very well have built it, and everyone who owns a Freedom knows about Paul so your prior owner may have reached out to Paul. His number is (401) 245-6949


----------



## jlodolce (Feb 25, 2008)

*Freedom 40*

Dan,

Thanks for the feedback. I will keep that in mind. At this point, we are looking forward to having a very good boat under us out on Lake Ontario.

By the way, I went to prep school in Connecticut with a Dan Goldberg....The same?

Jim Lo Dolce


----------



## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

*Nope*



jlodolce said:


> Dan,
> 
> By the way, I went to prep school in Connecticut with a Dan Goldberg....The same?
> 
> Jim Lo Dolce


But I went to a small liberal arts college in Connecticut (Trinity) that sure felt like a prep school to this kid from Brooklyn!


----------



## jlodolce (Feb 25, 2008)

Actually, I grew up right around the corner from Trinity. The other Dan Goldberg and I graduated from Suffield Academy in Suffield, CT (class of '65). Where do you keep your Freedom 45?

Jim Lo Dolce


----------



## jlodolce (Feb 25, 2008)

*A summer's experience with a Freedom 40/40*

Well, here I am again. Another year older, a few more grey hairs, and our first summer of experience on our Freedom 40/40. It was a perfect boat for us. Solid, great design and workmanship. The big main was not a problem once we learned to release the Vang before putting the main all the way up. The power winch is a must. We put 400 miles on her in Lake Ontario and loved every minute. She gained all our respect when we hit a squall 8 miles outside Oswego in July. Packed 45 knot winds, thunder and lightening, and torrential rain. We had time to get the main down, but not the jib. She heeled right over with just the small jib up. But she was like the rock of Gibraltar. Fabulous boat.

If anyone wants to take a trip vicariously on a Freedom 40/40, go to this website. Incredible trip from Virginia, up the Hudson, thru the Erie Canal, Oswego River, across Lake Ontario, out the St. Lawrence, around Nova Scotia to Newport, RI. A well done website.

BlueJacket Trip Reports for 2008


----------



## danielgoldberg (Feb 9, 2008)

Congratulations! That's great stuff. Glad you're having fun with her. I agree, Freedoms are great boats.


----------



## jlodolce (Feb 25, 2008)

*Freedom 40/40 experience*

We now have three sailing seasons on Lo Dolce Vita VII. We made the right choice. The Freedom 40/40 is everything anyone said it would be. The mast is indeed very tall as warned. We came very close a couple years ago entering the Bay of Quinte from Murray Canal in Ontario. We got right up the the bridge and did a very quick about face. We finally went under, clearing by no more than 3 feet. We've hit our share of squals, one packing 50 kt winds 10 -12 foot seas, raining so hard I could barely see the bow of the boat, thunder and lightening all around us. Didn't phase the ship, but phased me and my wife... Had one problem with a screw that came loose 3/4 of the way up the mainsail track, prevening us from lowering the main. Had to hoist my wife up on a bosun's chair with the main still up to fix it. I sure was proud of her... We do a lot of anchoring and found that neither the 44lb CQR nor the 44 lb claw held well (about 40 feet of chain), but switched to a 55 lb Delta which sets very easily and holds really well.


----------



## jlodolce (Feb 25, 2008)

Just finished our 5th season. Nothing but praises for this boat. People see her and wonder what she is, but always comment on how good she looks. A real head turner, and a great sail boat.


----------

