# What is a "liveaboard" in SoCal?



## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

We live 800 miles from SoCal and are thinking of keeping a boat there. 

One marina we looked at considers anyone who spends more than two nights per week on board a "liveaboard" and subjects them to the liveaboard quota and more than $200 per month fees. How generous -- not!

But if we're driving or flying 1600 miles round trip, a weekend won't cut it. We'd like to stay on board a week or ten days at a time, every month or two. Some trips we might head for other harbors and anchorages, but others we might stay at the home marina.

Would many marinas and harbormasters consider us liveaboards? I would hope not.


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## kd3pc (Oct 19, 2006)

ours is 12 days in any month...like you we find that a bit much, but they make the rules and they enforce them, sometimes with little accuracy..we keep our "attendance" on the log..so we BOTH understand the nites we stay over.

Had a beef with one of the guys over the winter..that "saw" us during the week a few times and "assumed" we were full timers. Even sent the bill out to me... Has almost ruined us on our home base..

The marina used to give a 5% discount for paying early, for the year...now they just take the money...


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

it seems more and more marinas like you to just stay home and out of sight,as long as you sent your monthly check,even better if you keep your boat home too,and send the check,the real problem is too many boats and too few marinas,these days the very worse marina's stay full.


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## CaptainForce (Jan 1, 2006)

Most liveaboards that I know have their boat as their only home. I'm not accustomed to marinas that don't allow people to use their boats frequently. Certainly, it's the decission of the marina managers to determine their rates. Here, in Florida, there is no typical standard, but most marinas that allow liveaboards will respond over the phone that they do not allow liveaboards. Many here, have a different rate for living aboard. Take care and joy, Aythya crew


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## jackns (Aug 4, 2010)

I live in San Diego and I am about to buy a boat for cruising and as a probable live aboard. I am considering Ensenada as a place to keep the boat for now. The price is under $10 per foot and the live aboard fee is only $75. The place that I am considering is called Baja Naval, but there are others. They have 24 hour security and provide free WiFi and free long distance calls to the US. They have a boat yard which has an excellent reputation. Many locals here have told me that boat yards there are cheaper and better in quality than here in San Diego. It is 65 nautical miles from San Diego to Ensenada or about a 68 mile drive on good quality toll road. Crossing the border can be time consuming by car. Public transportation is also an option. You could fly to either Tijuana or San Diego. From San Diego Airport there is a bus to a trolley line in Old Town that goes to San Isidro where there is a pedestrian crossing, and then buses to Ensenada. There is also a Marina about 45 miles from the border but not in a city or town.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

*Thanks and keep the good ideas coming*

Thanks all and I appreciate the input so far.

We won't be tied to a particular port or city, just somewhere that's reasonably easy to get to once a month or so... sometimes by air, sometimes driving.

Boat would be 35' loa and in good sailing condition, so nothing unusual.

I guess I just chafe at or resent the idea of being called a liveaboard and enduring the fees and restrictions if I'm only going to be on the boat about 15% of the time or less. But some harbormasters may have the authority to use common sense.

Ensenada could work; I'm not unreasonably terrified by La Violencia and grew up on the border. My wife has a bit of arthritis, otherwise we'd consider northern California more; we want a place from where we can sail pretty much year 'round.

Also high on my list are reasonable slip rates, since I can't get to the boat often. Are there any places in SoCal that might approach $10/ft? (Besides maybe a municipal like Santa Barbara where people expect you to "buy" the slip).

Again thanks and all info is most welcome.


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## jackns (Aug 4, 2010)

*cheapest rate in San Diego Bay*

Chula Vista, just south of San Diego, has at least two marinas.

The cheapest rates are just under $12/foot but increasing with the length of the boat. $300 is charged for live aboard, but I do not know how that is defined. I have heard that this is as cheap as you will find anywhere south of San Francisco without going beyond the US/Mexico border.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

*did a quick check on Chula Vista*

It took some digging, but one of the newsletters from the Chula Vista Marina seems to show that they take a middle-of-the-road policy that would probably work for an occasional "stayaboard":

From their April 2010 newsletter:

<< snip: 
Many of our boaters enjoy legal Liveaboard status and pay hard earned money for the privilege. Chula Vista Marina, like other marinas, is
limited in the number of total boats whom we can offer this status to.
It is disheartening to these Liveaboard Tenants when they see other
tenants enjoying this privilege as a Sneak- Aboard who is effectively
living aboard without the legal status and without paying.

Anyone who stays on their boat more than 3 nights a week is
considered to be living aboard.

If, occasionally, you plan to spend longer than 3 nights on board in any given week, just let the marina office know. We will be happy to issue you a Vacation Liveaboard Permit for a short stay at no cost to you.
snip>>

Rates for a 35 footer seem to be $13/ft or $455.


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## catamariner (Mar 3, 2010)

You'd think the marinas would realize that having liveaboards means added security -- eyes and ears on the dock 24/7.


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## jackns (Aug 4, 2010)

*Ensenada versus Chula Vista*

Another thought about Ensenada versus the San Diego area. In my communication with one of the marinas, Baja Naval, I got the impression that most of their clients are temporary stays and that is most likely in the Summer. It is therefore possible that someone who intends to stay longer and off season might be able to negotiate for a lower rate.


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## rebelheart (Oct 23, 2009)

I wrote up some of the info I've gleamed as a liveaboard for the last few years in San Diego, including doing an hour audio interview with our marina manager. Boring as hell for anyone who isn't interested in hearing about marinas and managers.

Rebel Heart - Sailing, cruising, liveaboard blog and website - Eric's Blog - How the liveaboard thing really works

In short, it really varies by marina and even the ones who are pretty lenient will never outrightly say they are because then they'll get abused by the jerk residents that the rules are there to keep out. A good marina does a good job of flexing the rules to allow the non-problem boaters to have fun but enforces them to keep the jerks out. It stinks having a double standard and "read between the lines" rules delivered with a wink, but it works.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

Yes, those are good points and thanks for writing them. Since we wouldn't be true liveaboards, we probably wouldn't have too much trouble. I do get a bit of a vibe that the biggest corporate-owned marinas might be less flexible. Also, since we're maintaining our land home, there is a certain "what's the worst the could happen" that would work in our favor; being kicked out of a marina that's super-inflexible or gets bought out and changes policies wouldn't necessarily be a disaster.

For San Diego, it seems the most competitive places are the two Chula Vista Marinas, Driscoll's, and Mission Bay (including perhaps the Mission Bay YC for those with low enough masts and willingness to make the initial payment to join the club). We might also do something like working our way down the coast gradually.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

the moorings are reasonable but havent amenities. i have 2 boats on moorings at coronado. the permanent mooring is about 130/.month thereabouts. is something to consider as the moorings are safe and well watched over. san diego mooring co ruins them. my temp ballis around 260 per month . i know there is a waiting list , but there is also the availability of temporary , or sublet, balls. try it. you will need a dinghy to travel back and forth to the boat.

from what i have heard, marina coral north of ensenada is nice also..have you tried that one??


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

Here in the Tampa Bay area it seems like the standard definition of "liveaboard" is 10 or more nights in any one month. But the bottom line is that it varies from place to place, and even from marina to marina within a few miles of each other. So, in the end, the only way you are going to know is to ask the specific policy at any marinas that you are interested in.


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## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

what i was advised by a marina in lost angeles was liveaboard was more than 90 days per yr on board, and only 10 percent of marina slips are for living aboard residents. per state. lol
HOWEVER, what i have SEEN is that every marina and every locale considers live aboard in a different manner--each has own regs and rules and fees.
good luck. there is a loong wait in mos all marinas --if you wish immediate place to stash boat, consider mooring. is an option.or go to mexico. marina coral is just north of ensenada. ensenada is morel like a border town now than it was -- is too busy and has too many displaced sin diego-ites --the wrong kind, btw--and the yard is competitive with the priciest of sin diego yards--again being the most pricey on west coast. so isnt a big saving to go to yard there. the baja naval marina is nice--the bathrooms will spoil ye--but the yard is high for mexico. the people are nice. but the pricing is not competitive with mexico--is competitive with sin diego's ripoff pricing. just my 2 cents....


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## DSneade (Oct 26, 2010)

*Good Hunting!*

All the previous replies seem to be valid tips for remote owners to visit their boat for extended periods. Of course, if the marina has a hard-line policy against extended stays you would be wise to follow the rules there or find another, more flexible marina. When you find a marina with a relaxed policy for your exteneded visitations, please contact the marina prior to each trip to your boat to inform them of your intentions (and get de-facto approval). Doing so may mitigate the live-aboards' objections. Chat up your neighbor boaters, especially the residents, to let them know your situation. For locations, please consider any port other that Marina Del Rey.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

I've sailed out of Marina del Rey but my wife hates the bathrooms (D basin north) so we wouldn't be likely customers unless we joined a slip-owing club there. Bare rough cold floors, steel "mirrors", harsh "prison" lighting, minimal privacy, cold.... But then there was another marina bathroom (in AZ!) we visited that spoiled her with high-thread-count towels, hair dryers, toiletries, and real hardwood partitions. Somewhere in between should do just fine. 

The general impression of SoCal vs. the Bay area seems to be that the Bay is around 30% cheaper -- more so as you get further from the city and Sausalito. In San Diego, Chula Vista, Driscoll's, and Mission Bay seem less extortionate. Ventura might also be an option for us. Santa Barbara seems to combine primitive bathrooms (the ones we've seen) with the eternity wait list (unless maybe we buy a "teardown boat" in a slip?).


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## swadiver (Jan 17, 2007)

rgscpat,

I slip my boat at Alamitos Bay, Long Beach. You are allowed to spend 14 continuous days per month on your boat. More than that and you would be considered a 'liveaboard'. So if you spent the last two weeks of a month and the first two weeks of the next month you would not be considered a liveaboard. Slip fees at Alamitos Bay are resonable compared to Newport Beach or Dana Point. However, the docks are wooden and in bad shape. The city of Long Beach (they own the marina) is currently going through the hoops to totally repair the docks with cement gangways/fingers. The problem is they will have to dredge each basin before installation, which means environmental impact studies. The restrooms/showers are no great shakes either, but they work, are clean and warm and hot water. If you want high thread count towels, bring them yourself.


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## JungleJim (May 16, 2009)

Like anything else, if you extend your stay on board and are more than considerate of others you should be fine. Keep the boat clean with junk off the decks, berth away from the heavy traffic areas. If management pushes back, just say thanks, that your getting some work done and now heading home - then go and come back later. As long as you don't put Marina management in a tough position or tick off a neighbor to have them go complaining you will be fine. Being a good dock citizen, willing to help others makes it easy for people to want you around. I always got phone numbers from my neighbors and would call them during a storm in SD (that's right - one blew 70kts) to tell them they were fine and one a helped run extra lines to my dock cleats. And as you may guess my neighbors were always looking to reciprocate - it was beautiful thing. I never had a problem and I did need to do a lot of refit work before we finally sailed around to Boston. We loved San Diego - try to find the friendliest marina possible. I would guess the larger the better. I liked the Harbor Island Marina - great staff.


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## JungleJim (May 16, 2009)

One point to keep in mind is that the limitation on live-aboards is typically local government ordinance, not marina. However the marina is responsible to enforce. If you tool around the San Diego marinas and mooring fields enough you'll see they got they're hands full - plenty of skows out there. Morale of the story is don't be one of them guys.


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