# Advice refinishing teak and holly sole



## mcagney (Jan 9, 2004)

I want to refinish the teak and holy sole in my Sweden 38 and I would like some advice. Some of the varnish has lifted and the teak has discolored due to minor water damage. The sole is a ½” plywood veneer in good condition. I have removed all the boards from the boat. This is what I was thinking of doing:
(1) Remove all varnish using a chemical stripper and plastic scraper. 
(2) Then use a teak brighter (any recommendations) to remove some of the dark water stains from the teak. 
(3) Sand the bare sole with an orbital sander (200-220 grit) and wipe down with mineral spirits. 
(4) Coat the sole (top, sides and bottom) with a coat of clear epoxy (should I thin this – use penetrating epoxy etc). 
(5) After removing the wax film (from to the epoxy) I then planned on putting 3-5 coats of polyurethane varnish on the surface and painting the underside (bilge side) of the veneer. 

Any comments, recommendations, warnings?


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Brightener: first a trial with diluted TSP (trisodiuim phosphate) to remove any oils, etc. Becareful as TSP will also dissolve some of the wood cells. Then a brightening with dilute oxalic acid. Apply the diluted oxalic in ''stages'' so that you dont get it too bright. 
Typically Oxalic will brighten too much so you may need to ''tint'' the wood back to the color you want with ''judicious'' use of diluted analine dyes/tints to gain hue/color - you typically have to mix up the ''tint'' yourself from dry powder dye. All this tuff is usually availabe in any ''old fashioned'' paint store - one that deals with the ''trade''. If you live in an eco-freak'' state (CA, NJ, NY, MA, MD, etc.) you probably wont find any.

Personally, I''d forget the epoxy as if the wood absorbs excess mosture (vapor from the ambient atmosphere) the surface coating is more vulnerable to lifting. 

A ''hint'' so that you dont have to sand too much or too deeply into the thin veneer: Take a steam iron and a spray bottle of water and lightly go over the gouges and deep scratchs. Spritz the gouges then go over with a steam iron - dont burn the wood. The steam will ''swell'' the gouges and sometimes get them back to the flat level original surface. Then you wont have to sand so deeply into the veneer - and shorten its useful life. For sanding, an orbital is OK but if you get a good carbide tipped scraper the job will go faster especially when you use a chemical stripper - but if you ''slip'' with an ultra sharp scraper you can do some ''awful'' damage.


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## GordMay (Dec 19, 2002)

Like Rich H says.
You can ease (round off slightly /w a file) the corners on your scraper to help prevent those gouges.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

No arguments with any of the previous advice. Would like to suggest a "varnish" product that I bought for my sole at the Annapolis boat show and was VERY pleased with. Called Ultimate Sole and it goes on with a foam brush with NO between coat sanding. Dries to a hard hi gloss finish but is NOT slippery...indeed is less slippery than normal finishes even when wet. 
I think the website is www.ultimatesole.com...no personal interest...just a plug for a good product.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Definitely use the Varnish over Epoxy method or just epoxy alone since this won''t need UV protection. 
Don''t thin the epoxy - not necessary.
Don''t sand finer than 80 grit to ensure good adhesion.
Coat the bottom and edges as well as the upper surface to completely seal the wood from moisture.
There are epoxies meant for clear coating that produce a lovely surface that is durable.
For exterior wood, put varnish coats over the epoxy to protect from UV. The varnish protects the epoxy from the sun, the epoxy seals against water. Varnish is a poor sealer against water.
This technique has been the best for me so far. Exterior wood can be given a light sanding and a new coat of varnish when needed. As long as you seal it well with epoxy, the water will never get under the coating and you''ll never need to sand to bare wood again.
Go to www.westsystem.com for lots of advice on this subject.

AJS


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## petercra (Nov 1, 2002)

The best way to remove interior varnish is with a heat gun and scraper. Although it is possible to char the wood, with careful use that is unlikely. Keep the heat on just long enough for the scraper to peel back the varnish. Keep a vacuum handy as the peeling are fine and will get into everything if you''re not careful.


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## davidiz (Sep 27, 2004)

*Ultimate Sole*

I also heard recommendations about this product and thought I'd try it. After it dried, about 5 days, we placed non-slip throw rugs down on the high traffic areas. After a few months I noticed that the varnish picked up the pattern of the rug's rubberized backing and that a dark film was sticking to the floor. I decided to remove the varnish and had a heck of a time. The rubber from the mats imbedded into the varnish creating a wax paste that was very hard to remove. Did I do something wrong?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

My $.02 worth:
1) I have yet to find a chemical stripper that works satisfactorily. Now I use a heat gun and scraper - it is not hard to keep from scorching. But best is to avoid stripping altogether.
2) Removing the staining will be harder than you think. Teak cleaner is very difficult to control unless you use it on everything. Other techniques require lots of experience to get right. Water stains at least are honest and not out of place on a boat - do you really need to clean them? You might end up with a cleaned spot just as noticeable as the water stain.
3) You might be surprised how much sunlight gets below in a boat. I used interior varnish below and regret it. Lots of fading.
4) Double check the thickness of the veneer that is applied to the plywood. It is very easy to go through it with a power sander.
5) Do you really need the epoxy? How long did the original finish last? Would you be satisfied if the new one lasted that long? It would simplify the job a lot to just refinish (sand and recoat with varnish).


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## Irwin32 (Jul 1, 2001)

GC:

Is it wrong to assume you are speaking from experience? I like your idea, as I was faced with this job as well. Floor looks OK, but is faded and very slippery. A simple sanding and adding another coat or 2 or 3 of varnish would simlpify the whole thing greatly.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Experience*

I have about 15 years experience with my current boat. That includes revarnishing everything below at least once. And lot of experience with teak cleaner on a previous boat. It is hard to get both good looking and non-slippery floor boards. My solution has been throw rugs with rubberized non-slip backing. I do recommend using exterior varnish even below decks on a boat. The cost savings of interior varnish are eaten up by having to do it again sooner because of the fading.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*experience...teak and holy sole*

I refinished my teak sole with polyurathane and was pleasantly surprised to find that it didn't get slippery when wet! If I had it to do over again I would use spar varnish to "build" the thickness faster and then finish off with polyurathane for a more abrasion resistant surface.


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## audeojude (Sep 19, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> No arguments with any of the previous advice. Would like to suggest a "varnish" product that I bought for my sole at the Annapolis boat show and was VERY pleased with. Called Ultimate Sole and it goes on with a foam brush with NO between coat sanding. Dries to a hard hi gloss finish but is NOT slippery...indeed is less slippery than normal finishes even when wet.
> I think the website is www.ultimatesole.com...no personal interest...just a plug for a good product.


I just went to the above website and it is still there but they don't look like they are still in business.. all the products have been removed from the site. It's just an empty website now.


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## Swanskpr (Feb 17, 2015)

See "Saving Your Sole" article at Dakota Marine Yacht Services in Milford, Ct


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

petercra said:


> The best way to remove interior varnish is with a heat gun and scraper. Although it is possible to char the wood, with careful use that is unlikely. Keep the heat on just long enough for the scraper to peel back the varnish. Keep a vacuum handy as the peeling are fine and will get into everything if you''re not careful.


I did this also was a quick and easy job. Followed by a little light sanding. Then three coats of West System Epoxy and several coats of Fabulon which was used on Gym Floors. Worked well for me.


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## hillenme (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm also in the process of refinishing a teak and holy sole. I've had a surprisingly easy time with the heat gun and carbide scraper. About 950 degrees, working and area for a minute or less scraping has been easy work.

Regarding the epoxy, is it necessary to epoxy the top? Like the OP my sole is plywood veneer. I planned to epoxy the sides and bottom but was afraid I'd just make a mess of the top (anyone whose seen my other epoxy work around the boat would know I'm not too skilled with the stuff yet). If it's sealed well on sides and bottom does the varnish offer at least some water protection?


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

Swanskpr said:


> See "Saving Your Sole" article at Dakota Marine Yacht Services in Milford, Ct


Excellent article. Thanks for posting.

Question - anyone using one of the clear vinyl, etc. 'sealers' prior to varnishing a sole.
What Im looking for is a sealer that will prevent the varnish, etc. from initially darkening the sanded teak ... and which takes a year or more for the previous 'color/hue' to return. 
I use such vinyl 'sealers' on musical instruments, etc. prior to prime lacquer/varnish and am seeking a suitable 'sealer' for a major sole rework project on a solid teak/holly sole (not veneer). 
Any sealing product name successfully used with 'Burmese-Thai' teak would be greatly appreciated (as I dont want to wait 2-3 years for proper color/hue development).


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

Unfortunately, no pics still on my phone- but here was my experience:

Redid the cabin sole with 1/2" ply with 3/8" Brazillian Teak T&G flooring with 1/2" quartersawn maple epoxied (West System, middle cure- not fast, not slow cure). Epoxied quarter round Brazillian Teak for trim. Epoxied only the bottom to the ply, but added extra to the edges to ensure seal all round. Spar varnish in three coats to the top.
Sailed her hard with my brother in law last season, mangaged to get a thruhull leak and a small crack in the centerboard trunk that overwhelmed my bilge pump and she sat "low in the water" with the entire thing SUBMERGED for at least a week and probably closer to two before I got her hauled out and a refit/repair underway. The only thing that DIDN'T need to be touched that was touched by the bilge/seawater was the cabinsole. Once I drained, rinsed and allowed to dry out, one piece of the maple trim that I hadn't properly coated with varnish near a hatch had to be cut and replaced, but otherwise looks as good as it did when I put it down.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

RichH said:


> Excellent article. Thanks for posting.
> 
> Question - anyone using one of the clear vinyl, etc. 'sealers' prior to varnishing a sole.
> What Im looking for is a sealer that will prevent the varnish, etc. from initially darkening the sanded teak ... and which takes a year or more for the previous 'color/hue' to return.
> ...


I used Petit S-120. It has been discontinued and replaced with 2018. They say it's the same stuff, just repacked, but who knows.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

From the instructions for Pettit 2018 :

"Do not use Clear Sealer on teak or other oily woods before varnishing or
painting (use 2012 Super Dry Sealer)."


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

MarkSF said:


> From the instructions for Pettit 2018 :
> 
> "Do not use Clear Sealer on teak or other oily woods before varnishing or
> painting (use 2012 Super Dry Sealer)."


Yep- I found the wrong can online. I used the predecessor to the 2012.
Sorry for the confusion.


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## Stu Jackson (Jul 28, 2001)

We used chemical and minwax polyurethane. Don't use an orbital sander. A little by hand is all you need.

There are tons of products out there for finishing, basketball/gym floor stuff is also reportedly very good. Our miniwax isn't slippery when wet, either.

We minwaxed the edges, probably should have done the bottoms, too.


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

I will be doing this job soon and will be experimenting with finishes to see what I like best. Poly has always served me well, I will def seal the edges and bottom with epoxy ANY water at all in my bilge and its all over the underside of the floor. My last Boat, a Columbia had the floors built in and the floor boards were in great shape with lots of bilge, I could wash the inside hull and bilges and just let the pump de-water, but on my CS I need to be extra careful to keep the bilge dry because its so flat. But then the PO drained the ice box to the bilge which would be OK (arguably) with lots of bilge area but pretty dumb on this boat. I am rerouting to better manage the water. The floor on the CS is so easy to remove its like they expected it to not hold up.

Seems like a ramble but some boats have bilges that keep the floor wet from the under side and some don',t and I think this affects the need to finish the underside.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I just found some information on another forum where 1 quart of high gloss mimwax polyurethane with mixed with 2 tablespoons of linseed oil with excellent results and non-skid, even when wet.

Gary


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

I'll try your linseed oil trick, I have since done all my floors with satin Poly not the Marine grade but inside no problem. I like seeing these old posts pop up so i can see what I was doing 2 years ago.


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