# Tiller or Steering Wheel for Single-Handing



## [email protected] (Nov 1, 2015)

Hey everyone,

Quick question. Some of you are familiar with my story. I am looking to buy a boat and have narrowed the search down to either a Catalina 27 or an Ericson 27. I am looking to be able to single-hand the boat, and I am also looking to make the sailing the least physically demanding as possible, as I am recovering from a bad case of Lyme disease. 

Is it easier to single-hand a boat of this size with a tiller as opposed to a wheel? It seems as though it would be, as the wheel might make it harder to maneuver throughout the cockpit. But it also seems like a wheel would be less physically taxing to steer over the course of a few hours as opposed to a tiller. So while a tiller might make it easier to single hand the boat, it also might be more physically demanding than a wheel. Just wondering what other sailors think about this issue. Thanks for your help eveyone.

Danny


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## amwbox (Aug 22, 2015)

A wheel doesn't become necessary for mechanical advantage until the boat is somewhere around 38 feet, IMO.

All these smaller boats with big wheels taking up space...just trying to look "yachty".

With a wheel you have greater mechanical complexity and more unreliability, a huge waste of space in the cockpit, more expensive self steering setups, and you lose a lot of the feel of the boat and water.

_Hate_ wheels. But I accept that they are needed on bigger heavier boats.


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## mikel1 (Oct 19, 2008)

Personal preference . . . I love my wheel steering E -27 . . .


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## skygazer (Sep 3, 2011)

I prefer a tiller, strongly. I've been drawn to some especially nice boats, but rejected them due to a wheel. 

With a tiller you always know at a glance where the rudder is. You can move around the cockpit and still handle the tiller, you are not stuck behind the wheel. Easy to reach other controls.

You can tie it off for a quick break. It is very easy and much cheaper to put a tiller pilot on it, and go hands free, than it would be to set up a wheel with auto pilot. Just balance your sails first, and the pilot will not be working hard in normal conditions.

When at anchor you can stand the tiller up and have the whole cockpit open for relaxing or stargazing and camping.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

Tiller is my preference. Also Jamie Dunross. Good thing about tiller you know exactly the rudder position with glance out the tiller. Also, very simple and easy (and relatively inexpensive) to hook up a tiller arm for auto pilot steering, or a windvane if you like. Here is Jamie's rig:
WINDPILOT - Videos


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

I think you would do better with a tiller. As you said, it would be easier to get around the cockpit. However, I would make having lines that run back to the cockpit a higher priority that the type of steering.


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## ericb760 (Apr 11, 2012)

I've been aboard a lot of 27' to 30' boats, mainly Catalina's, that have been retrofitted with wheels. As has been acknowledged already, you lose a lot of cockpit space with a wheel, and their complexity means that you should be carrying a spare tiller regardless.

I've known sailors with retro-fitted wheels who've had to saw their tillers down during a wheel failure in order to fit it back on and avoid hitting the wheel station. They were lucky in that they, wisely, chose to keep a tiller onboard.

If your plan is to sail single-handed most of the time, then the choice is obvious. Tiller all the way.


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

Can see the point of the above posts: KISS. Have heard that for long hauls, however, (and what you call long may vary) wheels are less tiring and don't tend to leave you with one arm 6" longer than the other afterwards. Something to consider if you have possible joint issues.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Tiller gives you extremely important feedback as to your sail trim and balance. You feel it in your fingers long before it gets out of hand when wind pipes up. Tiller is simpler (less things to break), cheaper in every way, and makes you a better sailor. If you sail solo on long passages, it makes self steering much simpler and easier on the wind vane.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

In reality, at least to me, it's a lot more comfortable steering with the wheel while single-handed sailing. I previously owned a Catalina 27 with tiller steering, and on a single handed five day trip down Chesapeake Bay to Cape Charles, I thought my left arm grew by at least two inches. Great wind conditions, some fast sailing, but I purchased a Tiller Tamer when I stopped in Cape Charles and it was the best investment I made on that boat. Sure saves lots of arm aches. The tiller tamer allows you to lock the tiller very precisely, thereby giving the helmsman a break once in a while.

Now I own a Morgan 33 Out Island and it was originally a tiller boat, but was converted to wheel steering. The wheel is relatively small, and the steering console is set off to the port side about 12 inches, which allows you to easily pass by the wheel without climbing over the lazerette seat. And, I installed a great helm seat behind the wheel, which makes it very comfortable for the helmsman to sit in comfort for 10 to 12 hours a day. Of course, you can lock the wheel in place with a set screw that is on a knurled knob, which is great when you want to eat lunch or just take a break.

I purchased the seat from West Marine when I first purchased the boat. The seat that came with it was one of those stiff-padded humps that has no back or arm supports and not at all comfortable. When I purchased the seat it was on sale for $269. Sure beats anything else I've seen on sailboats of this size.

TODD Key West Helm Seat & Pedestal Package, 18 1/2"H x 22 3/4"W x 17 1/2"D | West Marine

Good luck,

Gary


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## ericb760 (Apr 11, 2012)

travlineasy said:


> In reality, at least to me, it's a lot more comfortable steering with the wheel while single-handed sailing. I previously owned a Catalina 27 with tiller steering, and on a single handed five day trip down Chesapeake Bay to Cape Charles, I thought my left arm grew by at least two inches. Great wind conditions, some fast sailing, but I purchased a Tiller Tamer when I stopped in Cape Charles and it was the best investment I made on that boat. Sure saves lots of arm aches. The tiller tamer allows you to lock the tiller very precisely, thereby giving the helmsman a break once in a while.
> 
> Now I own a Morgan 33 Out Island and it was originally a tiller boat, but was converted to wheel steering. The wheel is relatively small, and the steering console is set off to the port side about 12 inches, which allows you to easily pass by the wheel without climbing over the lazerette seat. And, I installed a great helm seat behind the wheel, which makes it very comfortable for the helmsman to sit in comfort for 10 to 12 hours a day. Of course, you can lock the wheel in place with a set screw that is on a knurled knob, which is great when you want to eat lunch or just take a break.
> 
> ...


At 33', and a 12" offset of the wheel house, didn't that put you awfully low when sailing with a starboard wind?


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Since it is going to be an absolute necessity for you to have a self steering gear of some sort, a tiller would be the better option. A tiller is much more efficient with a steering gear and less expensive.
You should not be hand steering your boat more than about 10% of the time with a good self steering gear, and probably much less.
Keeping this in mind, if you purchase a boat with an outboard rudder, you can build (or have built) a trim tab self steering gear for a fraction of the cost of a normal, production gear. It is also a MUCH more dependable, efficient and cheaper system to maintain than any commercially available self steering system.


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

I have a strong opinion. It's based on sailing with my wife of 37 years. She has significant medical issues which make using a tiller very difficult. She is, however, able to use a wheel. The wheel is very much easier to grip, and you can use your entire body to lean into it. The tiller just is too hard for her to use. I personally believe that the wheel gives plenty of touch in a boat that size (yes, I've sailed a lot on both systems). A wheel is less tiring. You can adapt an autopilot or wind steering system on a wheel. It's your choice, but the wheel is a clear winner for my needs.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

I prefer tiller steering. There are so many ways to do self steering with little to no money out of pocket with a tiller however can run into the thousands with a wheel. Here is a pdf'file'with lots of sheet to tiller steering gear and setups.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...03.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGMowCqlKnpTF6PYKqt5XTlxjvRNQ


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

If TP52 can get tiller steering, why shouldn't a boat about half the size not be able to have tiller steering. 

My boat similar in size has a tiller. I can come up with more reasons for a tiller than a wheel frankly. 

At the end of the day, like all things great and small, it is up to you. 

One thing NOT mentioned, auto tiller pilots are 1/3 to 1/4 the price of wheel steering auto pilots in many cases. Of course this depends upon the disp of the boat, but as also noted, tillers are cheaper to work with. 

Marty


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## Tanski (May 28, 2015)

For me tiller.
Bit of playing with mainsail trim to get the balance right and mine will happily sail with a 3/16 length of shock cord around the tiller to a cleat on each side of the boat, can sail for hours this way jst adjusting the sails.
When hand steering if the tiller starts pulling that is your first clue you need to trim the sails.
Also have a Simrad tiller pilot, in conjunction with my gps/plotter I usually let my boat drive itself back to the marina under power while I get everything stowed away and ready for docking, I sail solo so this is very handy.
Started looking into my next boat for some serious ocean cruising, tiller steering and outboard rudder are at the top of my list of wants.


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## Northeric (May 1, 2014)

Danny,

FWIW I have a Ericson 27 with tiller AND Autohelm ST2000. I've never piloted a E27 with a wheel so I'm not qualified to comment on that. Regarding tillers, having the sails balanced helps offset the energy needed for the helm. I solo sail most of the time and thus rely on an autohelm a lot. Still gotta mix drinks, visit head, grab a bite while underway. My autohelm is very finicky and like grampa has good days and bad days. 

If you are planning on long solo passages the tiller can get physically taxing depending on sea conditions, course, current, etc. I mix it up and run tiller from both sides, stand and use my legs and even my feet from time to time. I can access all areas of the cockpit while on the tiller. Also I can spin the E27 on a dime with the tiller. I once did a 360 in my slip (neighbour was out) and didn't hit any docks. Try to get time on a wheel and a tiller before you commit. Figure out your limitations. Good luck.

Gary


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

ericb760 said:


> At 33', and a 12" offset of the wheel house, didn't that put you awfully low when sailing with a starboard wind?


No, not really. Keep in mind that the Morgan OI series is a very beamy boat and does not heel more than a few degrees, even on a beam reach with 20 knot winds. I guess this would be the a different situation on a narrow beamed boat with a fin keel that heels a lot. I'll try to find a photo to post of my setup.

Gary :2 boat:


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## FSMike (Jan 15, 2010)

Tillers are definitely simpler and less expensive. On smaller boats I find they can be more fun, especially on a day sail.
On larger boats sometimes yes, sometimes no, depending on cockpit layout and angle of heel.

I prefer wheels in general. In my experience weather protection can be better, again depending on the cockpit layout.

One thing nobody seems to have mentioned, if you have a long trip down the ICW or similar waters, It's easier to be sitting behind a wheel, especially on an elevated seat, than to be off to the side of a tiller and sitting lower. I've done both, and constantly having to stand up and/or move from side to side to see what's around is tiring.

I have joint problems, probably like the op does, and wheels are much less painful due to less moving around and getting up and down. Even when I have to get up I don't have to stand up as far, and my knees really like that.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but that's one of the reasons I prefer multihulls. Danny, you might want to do some research in that regard, they all aren't megabucks.

While I think about it, it's probably not a good idea to use your email address as your forum name, the bots might get hold of it and spam you to death.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

One thing that can be done to decrease the force required to move the tiller (other than proper boat balance), it to make the tiller longer. This will give a longer lever arm, and for a solo sailor give you access to more of the cockpit while keeping a hand on the end of the tiller. The trade-off would be needing to move the end of the tiller through a wider arc. That could be tiring, too.


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## scubadoo (Apr 5, 2014)

FSMike said:


> One thing nobody seems to have mentioned, if you have a long trip down the ICW or similar waters, It's easier to be sitting behind a wheel, especially on an elevated seat, than to be off to the side of a tiller and sitting lower. I've done both, and constantly having to stand up and/or move from side to side to see what's around is tiring.
> 
> I have joint problems, probably like the op does, and wheels are much less painful due to less moving around and getting up and down. Even when I have to get up I don't have to stand up as far, and my knees really like that.


Glad you brought this up!

If you do steer manually for long hours, a wheel is much more comfortable. Also gives you something to hang onto while standing in order to assist in balance.

I have a tiller and love it for all the reasons mentioned earlier, but my next sailboat will most likely have a wheel just because I love to stand behind it while close hauled, waves splashing over the bow, wind blowing hard....much easier when holding onto a wheel.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Tiller's are awesome 'cause you can lean way back with your elbows on the coaming and your legs over the tiller, steering with your ankles. Give someone a wave as you pass them steering like this, you'll look massive chill 

+1 for the mention of the tiller tamer, if you do go the tiller route. Mine lets me adjust the friction on it so it'll hold in place in a variety of conditions. That way instead of having to hold on to the tiller at all times you just set it and then occasionally make micro-adjustments as needed to keep course.

Tillers also take up a lot of room in the cockpit. Six people are pretty comfortable in the cockpit of my little boat, except that during tacks I have to push the tiller over into someone's stomach.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

Done both. Preference is.... Preference. Wheel gives more mechanical advantage for when you need it, so may be better for you, medically. Tiller has other advantages. In the two boats you're looking at, it opens up the pit, but not in all. Some older designs the darn thing goes right down the middle of the pit, and is worse than a wheel for space. Basically, you have to choose, but depending on how much arm strength and how quickly you tire, wheel may be better unless you are going to rely on autopilot a lot.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Here's the only photo I have that shows the offset of the helm to the port side, thereby allowing easy passage down the starboard side of the cockpit. Sure makes life a lot easier. Notice, the wheel is not at all large, but even when close hauled on a hard breeze, the torque at the wheel is minimal at best.










All the best,

Gary


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

seaner97 said:


> Done both. Preference is.... Preference. Wheel gives more mechanical advantage for when you need it, so may be better for you, medically. Tiller has other advantages. In the two boats you're looking at, it opens up the pit, but not in all. Some older designs the darn thing goes right down the middle of the pit, and is worse than a wheel for space. Basically, you have to choose, but depending on how much arm strength and how quickly you tire, wheel may be better unless you are going to rely on autopilot a lot.


Also done both. Tiller boats for about 25 years, wheel for the past 20. Prefer wheel. A wheel doesn't constrain--or strain--you as much and you can manage weather helm better if you are concerned about your strength and endurance. For long trips an electronically-controlled autopilot that is connected to your chartplotter is the way to go IMHO. A wind-powered self steering may be fine for open water, but the ability to push buttons and steer your boat in close quarters--or to dodge pots and buoys--is more relaxing and much less physically taxing. If you want to hand steer, you push "standby" and take over.

I'll concede that the ability to flip up a tiller and open the cockpit space is an advantage, though.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Don't think size need be a determinant in choosing wheel v tiller. The K and M 53 comes with a tiller.
Tiller definitely has better feel although now with direct drive it's pretty close on a wheel.
Have singled both. It much easier with a wheel. You can twist on some brake and walk away to do another chore. If boat starts to wander you can move the wheel a bit even with brake. Takes a short while to figure out how much brake to use.
With a tiller had a line lying across top on tiller running through a clutch with a lever. To "brake" closed clutch but is was black or white. Either totally off or on. To adjust took two hands but with wheel one hand. 
When singling spend a lot of time in front of the wheel. With a tiller you're more stuck in place. Lousy when vision is blocked by sails. Lousy when you want to look at the slot.
All this assumes no autopilot. Now with the cost so low and reliability so high of either tiller pilots or wheel pilots wouldn't even be stressing about this decision. 
Get the best boat. Stick a AP on it and have fun.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

I sailed a Grampian 26 with a tiller for a little over a decade. 

I had a wheel on my Catalina 309, and now I have a Catalina 28 with a wheel. On the 28, I'd be just as happy with a tiller. 

On a boat in this size range, effort required to operate a tiller vs. a wheel is minimal. If I found a 27 foot boat that met all my other criteria, whether or not it had a wheel or a tiller would not be a deal breaker for me. I suppose I might have a slight preference for a tiller. 

Many have mentioned improving their tiller with a tiller brake like the one from Davis. I had one on my 26 footer, and it was okay, but not great. The MUCH better solution is to get the tiller CLUTCH. Unlike the Davis which requires one hand on the tiller while the other hand cranks down the tension on the brake, the clutch is easily operated by the hand that's already on the tiller. I had a tiller clutch on my Precision 23, and just a flick of your pinky securely locks the tiller in place, freeing you up to adjust your sheets or apply you suntan lotion. They cost a little more than the Davis brake, but are way better. 

I read your previous post about which boat to buy. I think you're making an excellent decision by getting a 27 footer. Best of luck. 

PS..
A wheel does have an advantage when docking. With a tiller, your throttle and shift are located remotely from the tiller. My Catalina has the typical wheel binnacle with the throttle and shifter located at the top of the binnacle, allowing you to stand up for a good view while entering your slip, with the throttle and shift very readily at hand.


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

The advantage in docking usually goes to the tiller. The engine controls can be places conveniently enough with either tiller or wheel - not that boat builders have always done it right.

The typical tiller arrangement allows for far tighter turns than the typical wheel installation. Often enabling a boat to turn in about its own length. Below deck autopilots can be fitted to many tiller boats. Tillers are much simpler, have low maintenance costs, take up no cockpit room when not underway, allow extentions to be used, often allow the driver to be under the dodger, and definitely give a better feel for the sailing forces. 

That said, I have a wheel, but almost never use it. It's a long walk back there. I spend more time polishing it than steering with it. When cruising the autopilot does *all* the steering. Recently the 2500 miles from the last departure channel buoy to the destination channel buoy was done on autopilot alone. Never touched the wheel. Never pushed the Standby button. All conditions from pounding to weather, dodging flotsam, to surfing. So maybe it doesn't really matter if it's a wheel or tiller.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

aloof said:


> The advantage in docking usually goes to the tiller. The engine controls can be places conveniently enough with either tiller or wheel - not that boat builders have always done it right.
> 
> The typical tiller arrangement allows for far tighter turns than the typical wheel installation. Often enabling a boat to turn in about its own length.


I suppose the engine controls issue depends on the installation, but with my Edson wheel/pedestal setup, I have to reach through the spokes for the throttle and shift levers. It's tolerable, but can be a nuisance when things get busy.

However, my boat was available with tiller standard. The rudder is in a well with fixed stops, so whether it is tiller or wheel controlled doesn't matter regarding tight turns. With a low aspect fin keel and spade rudder, I can make some pretty tight turns with my wheel-equipped model.

Also, my wheel has a very light touch and allows a good feel for conditions. That said, I've sailed on 5 different sized Island Packets anywhere from 2 to 10 days each and they all had wheels that felt like you were driving a 1950's pickup truck with manual steering. They were very tiring, especially in a seaway.

IMHO you ought to take any boat you are considering out for a trial sail and determine for yourself if you like the handling characteristics.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Was told to never, never reach through the wheel to get to the throttle. Was told if wheel swings ( AP malfunction, gust, inadvertent gybe, etc.) and your arm is inside you may be seriously injured. Told bad habit and if you do it sometimes you may do it the wrong time.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

outbound said:


> Was told to never, never reach through the wheel to get to the throttle. Was told if wheel swings ( AP malfunction, gust, inadvertent gybe, etc.) and your arm is inside you may be seriously injured. Told bad habit and if you do it sometimes you may do it the wrong time.


I really, really didn't need the lecture. I was referring to a docking/tight maneuvering situation where YOU are controlling the wheel while making frequent throttle/shift adjustments. I did mention reaching through as a negative for a wheel, but my wheel is large enough that reaching over it is awkward. I spend a lot of time dealing with drawbridges and routinely reach throught the spokes with no incidents in the 20 years I've had a wheel.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

outbound said:


> Was told to never, never reach through the wheel to get to the throttle. Was told if wheel swings ( AP malfunction, gust, inadvertent gybe, etc.) and your arm is inside you may be seriously injured. Told bad habit and if you do it sometimes you may do it the wrong time.


I was taught that too. When I took ASA classes the teacher would smack my hand if she caught me reaching through the wheel.

My little boat has a tiller, but when I charter big boats with wheels I have to remind myself frequently not to reach through.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I always thought it was kinda dumb to mount the throttle and gear shift right behind the wheel where you cannot reach it without reaching through the spokes of the wheel. My aging A4 controls are mounted on the cockpit bulkhead where I can reach them easily and still control the wheel with the other hand. However, my sailing buddy has a Yanmar diesel in his boat and his controls on on the pedistal where you must reach through the wheel to access them - DUMB DESIGN!

Gary


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

One can stand while driving a tiller boat too. I do this a lot depending upon the conditions if motoring. Just put till between the legs and stand. I've done this for multiple miles at a time. I adjust course giving the tiller a push from the knee one way or the other.

Sailing wise, I sit, usually using a tiller extension. The extension comes in handy docking, as that will allow one to be at the edge of the boat. I use my foot at times on the throttle. Along with, if I am in the coasting into the dock, I can be on the edge, ready to jump off with dock lines in hand, let go of extension, off I go to the dock. 

A small wheel that is std on my boat frankly would be harder to do this sort of thing.

Marty


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## tellemark32 (Aug 25, 2015)

Keep it simple. Go with a tiller. If you cannot steer the boat by tiller, she is out of balance. Size has little to do with whether or not the boat will be difficult to steer. Trim the sails to the point that your boat almost sails herself. You are there just to nudge her along with a bit of rudder. Two to three degrees of rudder angle tops. Any more than that and your boat is out of balance. This applies in any weather. Trim, reduce, change out, or redistribute the sails to make it happen.


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## Hush34 (Dec 12, 2013)

I have a Pacific Seacraft 34 with a wheel. I agree with those who have posted and believe the tiller would be a better set up. The wheel and the guard take up a considerable amount of room in my cockpit and anytime I step behind the wheel I am pretty much trapped. At anchor or at the marina, the tiller wins hands down. Simply move the tiller to vertical and you lose absolutely no room in the cockpit. 

I am going to the Bahamas this winter and will be spending my last trip climbing up and over the wheel and guard. When we return, the wheel is coming off and a tiller rig is taking it's place. 

One of the most overlooked advantages of the tiller over the wheel is the reduction of mechanical complexity. The tiller is simply a less moving part system and is much more reliable than a wheel. Never heard of a tiller breaking and leaving a skipper without steerage. 

No doubt, tiller is the way to go.


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## Scotty C-M (Aug 14, 2013)

One nice item is the fold up wheel. At dock or anchor, you just fold two sections in. It allows for increased mobility in the cockpit. Some larger boats are now going for twin wheels. They are very comfortable and allow easy movement at anchor and underway. Expensive, yes, but very nice. Tiller or wheel: lots of pros and cons on both sides.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Hush34 said:


> I have a Pacific Seacraft 34 with a wheel. I agree with those who have posted and believe the tiller would be a better set up. The wheel and the guard take up a considerable amount of room in my cockpit and anytime I step behind the wheel I am pretty much trapped. At anchor or at the marina, the tiller wins hands down. Simply move the tiller to vertical and you lose absolutely no room in the cockpit.
> 
> I am going to the Bahamas this winter and will be spending my last trip climbing up and over the wheel and guard. When we return, the wheel is coming off and a tiller rig is taking it's place.
> 
> ...


Why not just go with a smaller wheel, maybe even hydraulic steering? Yes, more parts, but very reliable parts. And, tillers do break. That's why West Marine sells replacement tillers. I only know of one person that said they broke a tiller, and it was during a thunderstorm, which is a bad time to have it break. Fortunately, they had a spare onboard and were able to save the boat withing just a few minutes of work replacing it. Hey, it's just a length of wood, but I guess you could make one from a length of stainless, but it wouldn't be as pretty or traditional looking.

All the best,

Gary  :2 boat:


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## skygazer (Sep 3, 2011)

travlineasy said:


> ... And, tillers do break. That's why West Marine sells replacement tillers...


Anything can break, but my experience is they gradually delaminate in the sun. If they did break off, it would be feasible to lash an extension to the stub, almost any handle or paddle. A spare tiller would take up little room.

While it is recommended for boats with wheels to carry an emergency tiller, I've never heard of boats with a tiller carrying an emergency wheel........... 

*Rudder position:*

As long as we are going to keep delving into this subject, I'd like to re-emphasize the advantage of knowing the rudder position at a glance. When moving right along, not much of a problem. But when moving slowly for any reason - often because you are near something - it is (for me) more difficult to know the exact rudder position with a wheel. At slow speeds the boat reacts slowly, so you especially want the rudder to be just right. Also, when sailing along it is easier to tell how much weather helm you are experiencing by knowing the exact rudder angle. Helps you to know when you have achieved good sail balance to avoid both unnecessary drag, and strain on the autopilot.

By the way Gary, I like the looks of your smaller wheel. My parent's boat (large, very heavy wooden yawl) had a small wheel located rather forward in the cockpit, with a handy chart table in front of it. The wheel was easy to turn, so it must have had a good mechanical advantage. I'm not sure you can just get a smaller wheel if the mechanical advantage is not enough.

Personally, I find it strange that the current fad seems to be gigantic double wheels set so far aft that it looks like the helmsman is almost standing on a swim platform. I would not want to be stuck so far back, and can't see the advantage (of course I see the advantage of two wheels, just not the position). Since the wheel requires a way to carry the motion back to the rudder, why not be more centrally located?

Even in more moderate setups I have seen where it looks necessary to climb on the seats to get behind the wheel. These are of course design issues and are not inherent in the wheel. Wheels certainly can be set up for large mechanical advantage to relieve any strain on the helmsman. But why the need to use simple leverage (spoke length) with an enormous wheel? Do it below decks with the gearing.

When I anchor I'm done sailing and really love flipping up the tiller and having every bit of the cockpit available for enjoying my stay.

Either wheel or tiller, getting a boat and getting out on it sometimes is the main thing.


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## tellemark32 (Aug 25, 2015)

Double wheels are about as ridiculous as in-the-mast mainsail furling. Adding more complexity to a simple sport. The market rules. That's what people want, that's what they get. Bring your credit card.


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## mikel1 (Oct 19, 2008)

My boat was converted to wheel by PO I can see rudder position at glance of rudder stock on the cockpit floor . . . Must be the same for most conversions . . .


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

Regarding rudder position -- am I the only one who has put a mark on my wheel so that with a quick glance at the wheel I can know the rudder position? I didn't think I was being that clever when I did it.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

caberg said:


> Regarding rudder position -- am I the only one who has put a mark on my wheel so that with a quick glance at the wheel I can know the rudder position? I didn't think I was being that clever when I did it.


Nope. But with a smaller wheel or depending on your quadrant setup, you may get two (or more) rotations for full deflection of the rudder. So it does get harder to keep track of if you're dealing with sheets or something else at the same time. The rudder is easier that way. But I've seen a tiller attachment break where it would be tough to lash or fix and see the CCA thread for a picture of a tiller that doesn't so easily open up the pit as others might. Overall- as I said- I think this comes down to preference and the need for mechanical advantage with your condition. Good luck.


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

A mark on the wheel is essential. Mine is a few wraps of vinyl tape, but it should be a nice bit of nautical ropework. It is essential that it be both visual and tactile. The visual mark is very handy for trimming the mainsail. The trimmer does not need to ask the driver about helm angle or force. A glance is all that is needed. The trimmer will know where the mark should be in the various conditions. The tactile mark eliminates the need to look at the wheel because your hand feels it go past. Handy in maneuvering. Handy when the wheel is behind the driver. Very handy at night when chasing the compass. Cannot be used with hydraulic steering, however...

Wheels are big so that one can steer from the rail. A big advantage in racing and maneuvering in close quarters. But when the boat gets beamy, as contemporary boats are, the wheel would be too big so two are used.

The wheel's ratio is chosen so that there is sufficient mechanical advantage for whatever conditions might arise. Both inefficient barndoor rudders and high speed surfing boats might need more mechanical advantage. However it is also beneficial if normal course keeping does not require the helmsperson to move their hand about the wheel. This is especially so if seated on the rail steering with one hand. So the mechanical ratio is a compromise.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

One thing I like about a tiller is that you can steer with your feet while you have two free hands to do other task while moving around the cockpit. Makes tacking while single handing easier.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

This sailor looks like she prefers a tiller:


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## DuckDoc (Nov 17, 2015)

Tiller is more robust, and, makes simple the installation of electronic steering. Remember to have a spare tiller stowed down below, and, for sure have a more robust electronic steering unit in reserve in case of a storm. Our old style mechanical steering unit saved us in a blow because it was simply more powerful when installed at 2:00 AM in 10 ft waves, and, 55 knots of wind on a Gulf crossing.


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## OceanLady11 (Apr 24, 2015)

I used to sail an Albert 35 with tiller steering. I loved it! Partly because I could feel the rudder so much through the tiller which made staying on course far easier for me even with only visual bearings, and because the boats beam was so narrow I stood on the port side cockpit seat and steered with my left barefoot! Rested my head on the dodger and was very comfy sailing with my foot on the tiller like that all summer. In gale force winds, not a stance I'd recommend, but it gives a bit of variety that a wheel can't provide. When I went from that boat to a hunter 46 with a wheel, I steered like a drunken sailor at the helm until I got used to the wheel-lol. Still love the tiller though, if you get tired just hook up the old auto pilot (just keep watch on him every once in a while and make sure he doesn't slack off too much!) Bon Voyage! Happy sailing!


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## OceanLady11 (Apr 24, 2015)

casey1999 said:


> One thing I like about a tiller is that you can steer with your feet while you have two free hands to do other task while moving around the cockpit. Makes tacking while single handing easier.


Lol- glad to know there are other 'foot sailors' out there!


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## dsdphoto (Sep 3, 2014)

tellemark32 said:


> Double wheels are about as ridiculous as in-the-mast mainsail furling. Adding more complexity to a simple sport. The market rules. That's what people want, that's what they get. Bring your credit card.


Funny, I just got back from crewing on a delivery of a 2013 Jeanneau. The two things that caused the most trouble? The in-mast furling which broke twice - once in a 30-knot blow while trying to get in to Cape May NJ (where we spent 2 days and the owner spent a bunch of boat-units getting it repaired) - and the other the giant double wheels that had us all nearly hanging off the swim platform, which were positioned in such a way that you couldn't possibly reach the instruments or plotter without reaching thru the wheel. Lots of fun trying to identify AIS targets on a night watch outside NYC or Miami without breaking an arm.

As for the tiller vs wheel discussion... My preference on a 27' boat would probably be a tiller, for a lot of the reasons already stated. They give you a better feel for the boat, rudder position, are more sensitive, and will keep your costs and complexity down. However, and this is a big however, I'd have to say it would really depend on how the OP's recovery from Lyme is coming. I don't have Lyme, but do have another autoimmune issue where comfort can be an issue, and for me a wheel is a lot more comfortable for prolonged time singlehanding. Adding one may also give you a better platform for mounting instruments, a plotter, etc if that's in the plans, which may reduce your need to move around the cockpit, in case that's an issue.

My advice would be to try and get out for a solid day on a similarly sized boat with both wheel and tiller steering and try out both, in circumstances where you're solely at the helm for a solid period of time, and see which feels better for you. In the end, probably either one will be _workable_, only you will be able to judge which will be more comfortable given your own needs and medical issues.


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## capnJudd (Jul 18, 2012)

Tiller.

for feedback sensitivity: tiller
for ease of connecting an autopilot: tiller
for ease of operating self-steering gear: tiller
(for single-handed cruising, you need an autopilot and self-steering; for daysailing not)
for space in cockpit: tiller
for looking conventional: wheel
for looking geeky nautical: tiller
for counteracting bias in the helm: rig and rudder design, sails and trim
for simplicity: tiller
for long-term ruggedness at sea: tiller
for avoiding friction in the mechanism: tiller
for letting newbies take the helm: wheel
for something to hang on to in a big sea: wheel
for leverage in gigantic seas: wheel, or longer tiller 
for ease of setting up a cockpit table: tiller
for ease of posture: debatable
for steering with your feet: wheel
for steering with your legs: tiller
for maintenance of cockpit sole: tiller
for feedback on rudder position: tiller
for cost: tiller
for sailing with a crowd in the cockpit: wheel
for quick turns and tacks and escapes: tiller
for backing up: wheel
for single-handed access to everything in the cockpit: tiller


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## skygazer (Sep 3, 2011)

capnJudd said:


> for backing up: wheel


Just curious, what points do you like about a wheel for backing up?

I consider backing up to be one of those slow speed times where I want to know the exact rudder position without error due to the lag time and not wanting to get it wrong. Kind of like backing up a long trailer with a vehicle, I want to start with the wheels in the correct position.


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

skygazer said:


> Just curious, what points do you like about a wheel for backing up?
> 
> I consider backing up to be one of those slow speed times where I want to know the exact rudder position without error due to the lag time and not wanting to get it wrong. Kind of like backing up a long trailer with a vehicle, I want to start with the wheels in the correct position.


Agree. In both cases backing up is simpler if you face aft.

Then, with a wheel steer normally.

With a tiller just point the rudder where you want the stern to go.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

For under $50 you can purchase a rudder indicator gauge. VDO-VDO Viewline Onyx Rudder Angle Indicator Gauge 2 1/16 12/24V - A2C53417228-S-A2C53417228-S

Gary


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## sasems (Jun 2, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Quick question. Some of you are familiar with my story. I am looking to buy a boat and have narrowed the search down to either a Catalina 27 or an Ericson 27. I am looking to be able to single-hand the boat, and I am also looking to make the sailing the least physically demanding as possible, as I am recovering from a bad case of Lyme disease.
> 
> ...


I had a Catalina 27 with a tiller years ago. I never had a tiller pilot for her but found it easy to get the sails in balance and use a tiller extension and bungee with the tiller end placed in a small rubber socket to hold her steady while I went forward or down below to get something. Tillers allow you to "feel" the boats and sail balance much better than a wheel and it is not as big an issue with space as one might think. I replaced the tiller handle once and made room at the attach point to allow a small wedge that I made to be placed allowing the tiller to be raised so it didn't sweep so low. It could only be used when the air was light, say under 10 kts, because it did not allow full contact between the rudder post and the tiller handle. With the wedge in place I could not use the tiller extension/bungee either.

When I needed to spend more than a minute or two away I would heave to. The Cat 27 does that with ease if you don't have too much sail up.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

travlineasy said:


> For under $50 you can purchase a rudder indicator gauge. VDO-VDO Viewline Onyx Rudder Angle Indicator Gauge 2 1/16 12/24V - A2C53417228-S-A2C53417228-S
> 
> Gary


Looks like this is gauge only, then you need the transmitter with 12 volt power supplied, all the wiring, and calibration. Could be done, but just adds complexity and more stuff to break.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

For the op, here is a good read:
http://sfbaysss.net/resource/doc/SinglehandedTipsThirdEdition.pdf

Go to Chapter 3 for tiller vs wheel discussion.


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## roverhi (Dec 19, 2013)

Pulled the wheel on my Pearson 35 and converted to tiller. My first and last boat with a wheel. Found the wheel very hard to steer with. The sideways motion required to turn the wheel uses a very small amount of muscle groups so is quickly tiring. Found the wheel numb in feel like driving a Buick and SLOW to input steering direction. The full keel boat required a bit of back and forth maneuvering in tight quarters and was often finding the rudder 180 out after a few iterations. Having the wheel marked didn't work as it only tells you the wheel is at 12 o'clock or whatever, not where the rudder is pointing and you had to look for the mark. There is nothing so much fun as gripping a cold stainless steel wheel in rain or bad weather and having it slip banging your fingers up against the spokes. No way you can use two hands to work the boat with the wheel as one hand is a slave to steering.

The tiller on the other hand is a natural. You always know where the rudder is pointed by feel. It's a natural to steer with the tiller between your legs and both hands free to work the boat. You can crank a non self tailing winch and tail while steering with a tiller. There is also the Pederast steering possibility. A tiller is bloody simple. No cables, chain, sheaves and quadrant to screw up and put the boat out of control. A tiller has precious little to break and, if designed to adequate scantlings, virtually unbreakable. Steering with the tiller allows you to use almost your entire body to steer the boat. Way less tiring to spread the work load. Personally have done 72 plus straight hours, most at hull speed, on a very heavy tiller with no physical tiredness. The mental part is another story, going that long without sleep can have your mind providing some interesting video. If you are going with a pendulum servo self steering vane, it will work way better with a tiller. No friction loss in the wheel mechanism and/or restricted range of rudder deflection that comes with a wheel. It's nice to have a compass based self steering occasionally. Tiller pilots are way cheaper and easier to fit than a wheel autopilot. If you can make it work, a tiller pilot will steer via the self steering vane while barely sipping electrons. Davis markets a cheap tiller control accessory called the Tiller Tamer that allows you to lock the tiller in position and/or act as a restraint just like a wheel brake


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## capnJudd (Jul 18, 2012)

skygazer said:


> Just curious, what points do you like about a wheel for backing up?
> 
> I consider backing up to be one of those slow speed times where I want to know the exact rudder position without error due to the lag time and not wanting to get it wrong. Kind of like backing up a long trailer with a vehicle, I want to start with the wheels in the correct position.


I have 2 reasons for preferring a wheel here, and both are a bit debatable.

ONE: the force of water running backwards on the rudder can make it suddenly want to slam into full range on one side or the other, and this surge can be dangerous to the health of the rudder. I think the wheel does a better job of restraining it. But I'll allow that if you have your wits about you, you can restrain a tiller too.

TWO: Pointing your rudder to go backwards can be confusing. It's a quick learn if you have a wheel ("Just stand on the other side of the wheel.") but my brain always has to think three times to get a tiller into the right position. There have been times when I don't have the luxury of thinking 3 times. But I'll allow that if you have your wits about you, you can point a tiller properly too.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

capnJudd said:


> I have 2 reasons for preferring a wheel here, and both are a bit debatable.
> 
> TWO: Pointing your rudder to go backwards can be confusing. It's a quick learn if you have a wheel ("Just stand on the other side of the wheel.") but my brain always has to think three times to get a tiller into the right position. There have been times when I don't have the luxury of thinking 3 times. But I'll allow that if you have your wits about you, you can point a tiller properly too.


I read some place when backing up, treat the tiller like a rifle- aim it where you would like to go.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I never had a bit of trouble backing up my Catalina 27 because it had a fin keel and the prop is wide open to the water. It was almost like parking a car, and it had a tiller. My sailing buddy had a C-27 also, with a wing keel and a wheel. It was just as easy to back up.

Now, with my full keel 33 Morgan OI, backing up is a crap shoot at best, wheel or tiller doesn't make a bit of difference. The boat just goes where it wants to go at the time, could be left, could be right, and sometimes, on rare occasions, it actually goes straight, regardless of the rudder position. 

Now, when I had the 27 Catalina, that tiller didn't really communicate sail trim to me, and neither does the Morgan 33 with the wheel. I just kinda feel the boat as if it were attached to me and instinctively steer where the performance seems best. Maybe being old and spending most of my life on the water has something to do with this - don't know for certain, though.  

Oh well, hope the OP finds what he's looking for.

Good luck in your quest,

Gary


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## skygazer (Sep 3, 2011)

capnJudd said:


> ...TWO: Pointing your rudder to go backwards can be confusing...


I agree with those who said look aft and point the rudder/tiller where you want to go.

 .... But the real reason I'm good at it is that when I was a 5 or 6 or whatever, my mom would let me single hand her "Turnabout", a sort of plywood cat rigged centerboarder that seemed huge to me. We lived on the water all summer.

For some reason I rarely could tack properly. My method was start to tack, get in irons, drift backwards, and while drifting back I'd steer backwards and turn the boat the way I wanted it, then sail off.  Seemed good to me!

Now I use it to set my anchor, as I almost never motor.


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## PitApe (Feb 28, 2015)

Here's a guy sailing single-handed in San Diego. Note the lack of a wheel


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

If I had to work as hard as that kid did in the video above, they would be hauling my old arse off on a gurney to the nearest ER.  Next spring, when the boat goes back in the water and I'm out there sailing down the Chesapeake, I post some vids of how how an old curmudgeon single hands a 33 Morgan Out Island, while at the same time, mixes green coconut margarettas and grills lunch on the gas grill, all at the same time. With luck, I'll find some hot honey to do the cookin' and mix the cocktails.  (Just kidding, darling.) The guy in the video must have been in a really narrow waterway - he was tacking every minute or so. Way too much work for a sailor.

All the best,

Gary


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## aloof (Dec 21, 2014)

The guy on the Cal 2-29 could be working harder. That traveler needs to be going up on each tack. He doesn't have runners. He should be sitting to windward. I'd load up the next winch and put the handle in it after tacking. And as Gary colorfully points out, this guy is only sailing. Except for one hello to another boat he is not doing any of the tasks of primary importance.


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

PitApe said:


> Here's a guy sailing single-handed in San Diego. Note the lack of a wheel


I looked at your posted vid and then found this one. I was going to post it and state "looks like he is making out ok with a wheel", then I got to the 16min 38 second part of the vid where the wheel pedestal breaks. Nice video of his trip.:


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> It's a natural to steer with the tiller between your legs and both hands free to work the boat. You can crank a non self tailing winch and tail while steering with a tiller. There is also the *Pederast* steering possibility.


 [emphasis added]

Whaaaaaaaa? :eek


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## colinalleck (Jan 29, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Quick question. Some of you are familiar with my story. I am looking to buy a boat and have narrowed the search down to either a Catalina 27 or an Ericson 27. I am looking to be able to single-hand the boat, and I am also looking to make the sailing the least physically demanding as possible, as I am recovering from a bad case of Lyme disease.
> 
> ...


Danny I own an SS34 which is tiller steered. 
the starting point in all of this is maintaining a well balanced boat that will steer her self -- dont use autohelm and mechanical steering to avoid this fundamental requirement as you will be on a slippery slope

Having sailed and raced for some 40 years I prefer tiller steering for its simplicity and ease of maintenance. Also you have direct feel of you boat

Being able fold the tiller back when at anchor is "gold"

I have both windvane steering for longer trips, and autohelm tiller steering for shorter trips or when in harbours.

hope this helps but be aware there is no right or wrong answer to your question --it is what you are comfortable with.

Good luck Colin


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## casey1999 (Oct 18, 2010)

colinalleck said:


> Danny I own an SS34 which is tiller steered.
> the starting point in all of this is maintaining a well balanced boat that will steer her self -- dont use autohelm and mechanical steering to avoid this fundamental requirement as you will be on a slippery slope
> 
> Having sailed and raced for some 40 years I prefer tiller steering for its simplicity and ease of maintenance. Also you have direct feel of you boat
> ...


Good Point Colin,
BTW I also have an S&S 34- where are you located?
And to think about it, as you say, if I balance the boat correctly, I need little or no effort on the tiller. Thing nice about a tiller is that it gives you more options as to where to position yourself in the cockpit if you do need to steer, or apply light pressure to the tiller. You can lay down or sit on leeward or windward side of cookpit. You can stand if you like. Since you can move the height of the tiller and add an extension, gives you more options than a fixed wheel. But as Colin says, what works for you is best.


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## colinalleck (Jan 29, 2014)

I am located on Sydney Harbour Australia


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

Tillers make docking far easier, as you always know exactly where the rudder is pointed, and can change that instantly.


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## msmalter (Sep 30, 2000)

Regardless of wheel or tiller, if you are going to single hand, you should have an auto helm. They are available for both tiller and wheel.

I like to sit on the low side while sailing to see underneath the jib. This is easy with a wheel because you can reach the 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock part of the wheel from the side of the boat. With a tiller, you need a tiller extension.

I had a tiller on my Catalina 22, and currently have a wheel on my Catalina 28. The only time I disliked the tiller on the 22 was when I was backing and the force from the unbalanced rudder could pin me in the aft corner. I really like the wheel on the 28. I agree it is more complicated, but I like it (personal preference).


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## skygazer (Sep 3, 2011)

casey1999 said:


> I looked at your posted vid and then found this one. I was going to post it and state "looks like he is making out ok with a wheel", then I got to the 16min 38 second part of the vid where the wheel pedestal breaks. Nice video of his trip.:


The hand of God must have been with him. 20 days to go out, then just as he started the 28 day return trip his wheel pedestal snaps off just outside the harbor! How amazing is that? Could have broken in the middle of the ocean.

He liked showing how he innovated to deal with problems, but skipped how he got back to the harbor, so I assume he was towed back in. Took four days to do the repair with access to land, marinas, shops.

I'm thinking the cable that ran from the vane to a pulley that controlled the wheel added continuous side pull, and with all the heaving and rolling fatigued the metal. Hand steering would have had a different and ever changing set of forces, but without a crew that is impossible to do.

With a tiller the forces would have been similar to hand steering, the same as the tiller is designed for, so that type of fatigue would not be so likely.

And if it should break off, a tiller is easily replaced. With access to land, even if a wilderness, in a worst case scenario one could easily cut a thick branch or sapling and hack out a new tiller in a short time, assuming basic tools on board. A spare tiller takes up very little space.

This scary event, not emphasized enough in my opinion, really makes a strong case for a tiller for single handing.

I'll mention that tiller pilots also take up little room. On a long trip I would absolutely have at least one spare, all set up.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

Tillers can and do break, and can and do break where they attach to the rudder. You can call this a rudder failure if you wish, but it's not always as easy as lashing a sapling to the old spot, or rebolting your replacement to the rudder. The one advantage that many wheel mounted boats have is that they have separate access ports to mount an emergency tiller directly to the rudder in the event of wheel failure. These ports shelter the hardware from the weather and sea and often look and function as new when you access them 20 years later with only yearly cursory inspection and occasional usage to be certain you know how. They allow you a back up that can't be had on some, but not all, tiller boats.
FWIW- but just want to be sure that the 'safety' argument is put in proper perspective. I'm firmly in the 'it's preference, with tradeoffs' camp.


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## skygazer (Sep 3, 2011)

Hi seaner, I respect your opinions but do not quite understand what you mean here.

Could you at your leisure please expand on what you mean as far as where the break is taking place?

I was not meaning lashing, but quickly hewing square the end and through bolting it to the bracket on the rudder stock. If the rudder stock breaks, or the rudder inner framework breaks so the stock rotates freely, then much more difficult and one might have to try steering roughly with the sails.

On a transom mounted rudder perhaps you could lash to the top of the rudder, but on a boat with the rudder underneath that would not be possible. I'd not give up, I'd try lashing on steering lines to the remaining rudder, even if I had to hack a hole through it with a hatchet.

I'm not sure where or what you mean to grab onto with the broken wheel that would not be available to the tiller replacement idea. Access ports? I'd certainly open one up if needed, I always have drills, bolts and screws and hardware, sawsall with extra blades and batteries and chargers, as well as a hatchets and an axe. So nice with fiberglass, fix it up later.


As an aside, I have managed to steer with an oar, but it was poorly responsive and tended to go beyond where I wanted. Still, better than nothing. I always carry oars and paddles. With access to a wilderness I'd be hewing out a large sweep.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

I believe Seaner was referring to the emergency tiller which attaches directly to the rudder head thru a deck plate on boats with wheels.


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

skygazer said:


> Hi seaner, I respect your opinions but do not quite understand what you mean here.
> 
> Could you at your leisure please expand on what you mean as far as where the break is taking place?
> 
> ...


Am mobile and posting photos is impossible at this time, but most tillers have some sort of U bracket that is bolted to the extension plates to spread the forces that is bolted to the rudder. Anything in that system can give way. If the U bracket or the extension plates are what gave, you've got a much more complex fix. And then you're probably talking about lag screws though it into the rudder or mechanism, which then means replacing or redoing your rudder at some near point, which can be much more expensive. Some people would call that a rudder failure, but it is more of a failure of the tiller to rudder connection. Sure it can be done, but my pedestal, and some others I've seen, is set remote from the rudder stock with a bronze port immediately above the rudder that is removable by an adjustable pin key and you can drop the emergency tiller onto the rudder pin directly if the wheel, or more likely the cable, gives way. Much quicker in a bouncy sea than trying to jury rig something even if your tiller breaks at mid-shaft. I spin off the plate, inspect and lube once a season and carry an emergency tiller in event of disaster. Would ensure same could be done on any boat with a wheel I ever owned again. Again, only one answer, but when I see things like 'simpler...easier to repair...better' I find my reaction to that is "not always", but I'm a think through all the failure points, worst case scenario, Gen X guy (we tend to be VERY skeptical to the point of annoying those in the boomer and millennial generations).


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## seaner97 (May 15, 2011)

capttb said:


> I believe Seaner was referring to the emergency tiller which attaches directly to the rudder head thru a deck plate on boats with wheels.


Correct, but anyone who hasn't been on both types of boats or been instructed in it's use would not necessarily see the pros/cons of this set up, so I was attempting to be more descriptive.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

I personally find a wheel to be much less physical effort, I don't think I could stand on one leg and steer with the other for long. Besides the mechanical advantage inherent in a wheel, when going forward the wheel stays where you put it, don't have to hold it with my foot while I tack. With an AP you just push 2 buttons to tack, without you can do everything from in front of the wheel.


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## roverhi (Dec 19, 2013)

With a self steering vane you just swing the wind vane around to the proper orientation for the opposite tack. maybe a second or two. A few clicks with an Aires that can be done from most anywhere on the boat with a little extra line. Almost as easy with other vane systems. Sailing with the vane, which I do all the time, just reposition the vane and let it tack the boat while I handle the sails.

You don't stand on one leg and steer with the other with a tiller unless you are a gymnast. You stand on both feet with the tiller between your legs while you work the sails with your hands free. For larger excursions of the rudder hold the tiller with the outside of your legs. If you want to steer with your feet with a wheel, you DO end up balancing on one leg while limited to a 1/4 turn of the wheel. A bit easier sitting down but still extremely limited in the range of input with a wheel.

Mechanical advantage of a wheel is largely determined by the diameter of the wheel. More advantage, less feedback, slower input and more work to do it. If you need more advantage, you're installing a large gate at the pedestal which can be and usually is a challenge to maneuver around. Okay if you like to isolate yourself from the unwashed who are slaving to keep your boat moving. Think they call that the Blye syndrome. Of course it could be fuel for the mine's bigger than yours fetish that resulted in those stupidly large ferris wheels on some boats. 

'Tiller Tamer' by Davis. $25 bucks or so online and the tiller will stay in any position you want it or dampen it's movement.

Sailing into SF on my brand new to me wheel steered boat, suddenly lost almost all the ability to turn left. No big thing except I was surfing on 6' waves with one of the pilings for the Golden Gate Bridge a few hundred yards dead ahead. Fortunately, after a series of 360's, was able to keep from ramming the piling and bringing down the bridge. Figured no sweat, just hook up the emergency tiller and will be back to my beloved tiller. Hold on, still couldn't turn left because the wheel steering was hooked up to the rudder and couldn't be over powered by the emergency tiller. Had to haul all the crap out of the cockpit seat stowage and remove a panel to get at the steering gear. Had to disconnect the cables to the quadrant to regain steering. Turned out, the bolt that pinned the rudder shaft to the quadrant was missing. The quadrant was only held in place on the rudder post by clamp friction. Had worked for the sail from Santa Cruz but allowed the quadrant to move at the worst possible moment. Turns out the yard had forgotten to put the bolt back in after they'd dropped the rudder to satisfy the surveyor. Thinking it over, that 1/4" bolt was the only thing reliably holding quadrant in place for the past 45 years. The hole steering system on the boat was at t


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## [email protected] (Nov 1, 2015)

Thank you everyone for all the insight, suggestions and encouragement. This really is a great community filled with helpful sailors. I've learned a ton in the last few weeks from you guys. I'm leaning towards the steering wheel, but now understand the pros and cons to both. I am continuing to search for the right boat and hope to find one soon. Thanks again everyone.


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## Hush34 (Dec 12, 2013)

This has been a fantastic thread. Can't remember who started it but thank you! Like many options on sailboats, it really depends on the end user. I plan on cruising a lot in the immediate future. My boat has such a small cockpit that the wheel really cramps "my" style. Looking forward to kicking back at an anchorage with the tiller standing tall and out of the way. My wheel system is in need of replacement and that project is going to kill the kitty. I think I can convert for about $3000 a wheel system will be some $5000. Tiller here I come....I THINK???


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## tellemark32 (Aug 25, 2015)

Replace it with a tiller. You will have a boat with less complexity and enjoy her more. Count the number of moving parts or replacement parts in each system. Which is less complex? Go with the less complex system. Tiller wins.


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## SavvySalt (Sep 16, 2014)

Wheel vs. Tiller for single handing? Sounds like a good way to start a religious war. :wink In my very limited single-handing experience trusting your hands free steering (auto-pilot/helm) is a more important consideration than how you steer hands on.

In my experience the physical effort required to steer a boat will vary more with the boat's design, how you sail it and where you sail it than whether it's got a wheel or a tiller. The effort required is a big factor in which auto-pilot will work for you.

One thing I will point out is that a wheel is not necessarily low physical effort to steer with. I sail on a buddy's C&C36 and I've seen that wheel throw a healthy 20 something dude to the ground in 25kts with some chop on. Here are some snippets of my friends and I struggling with this wheel (hopefully these take you right to the right spot: 



 and another in the same video 20 seconds later: 



 ). Of course, we could have had less sail out but it's all good fun.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

VTP, if a healthy 20 something dude is thrown to the ground by a wheel with 25 kt winds., he's nothing more than a whimp. For this 75 year old 25 is a great speed for sailing and getting the best performance out of the boat. Now, back when I had a Catalina 27 that was tiller steered, I've had enough pressure on the tiller to fear that it may break, but it didn't, even in 40 kt winds. Maybe I'm in a bit better shape than that 20 something guy. 

Good luck,

Gary


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## dennismenace111 (May 23, 2007)

The real answer to this question is what are you comfortable with? Long haul sailing, I ll take a wheel any day... its just more comfortable for an old fart like me... however, Ive raced J-30's and you do get alot more feel for what the boat is doing with a tiller....only problem is the back ache I get from sitting sideways with my arm extended to the tiller.. personally, its just uncomfortable... for others, it might be more comfortable .. the other stupid reason I like a wheel better is that when you take a novice out sailing for the day, its alot easier for them to take the helm while I go below for a nature break..


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

Hush34 said:


> My boat has such a small cockpit that the wheel really cramps "my" style. Looking forward to kicking back at an anchorage with the tiller standing tall and out of the way.


My Edson wheel is 4' in diameter. It is retained by a knurled knob and is easy to remove in an anchorage and "park" out of the way on the stern pulpit, using a fitting that is also made by Edson. There are no tools required, so this operation is simple and quick.


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