# Opinion of C&C 27 as coastal cruiser?



## 7tiger7 (May 30, 2006)

Hi all - 
another question..
any opinions on an older C&C 27? I plan to sail mainly in Boston / Cape Cod bay (probably no more than 30 miles from landfall), maybe weekend trip sometimes, and MAYBE some racing just for fun (not trying to place in first place)...

So - opinions? This is a first boat for me, so looking for something simple, maybe singlehand around the bay for a day...

Thanks


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## Gary M (May 9, 2006)

The C & C 27 is a decent boat, a bit bigger than the Oday you asked about. They handle heavy weather reasonable well. There are actully 4 models. 
The mark I and II are similiar but he II has a taller rig. The III is a much bigger boat, 27 ft 11 inches LOA. versus about 27' 4" for the other two. This one is the best of the group. 

The IV came out about 1980 and was a newer design but smaller boat and probably had a diesel.

They all had balsa cored decks and almost all of them now have wet spots but a decent survey will turn this up. They also had mainly atomic 4 inboards which were a decent engine but getting a little old now. 

Any one of them in good condition make a decent starter boat. You can club race them as well.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

You might also look into the Pearson 28-2.


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## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

As a C&C owner (alas, I now own two boats), I would be less reserved in my praise of C&Cs. They are better than "decent starter," they sail well, are fast for their time and represent an excellent value. I am not specifically familiar with the 27 but would suggest that you try cncphotoalbum.com.


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## Johnrb (Sep 21, 2002)

The C&C 27 Mark IV (introduced around 1980) is actually the same boat as the Mark III with a few tweaks. What is oftened referred to as the Mark V is an entirely new, and smaller, design that was introduced in the early 1980's. The C&C 27 class association is an excellent source for information on this boat. I've provided links to the class association and a review from Practical Sailor. Good luck.

http://www.cc27association.com/
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/reviews/c&c27.htm


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

*Great Boats*



7tiger7 said:


> Hi all -
> another question..
> any opinions on an older C&C 27? I plan to sail mainly in Boston / Cape Cod bay (probably no more than 30 miles from landfall), maybe weekend trip sometimes, and MAYBE some racing just for fun (not trying to place in first place)...
> 
> ...


The 27 Mark I is a great boat, being a smaller version of the legendary 30 Mark I. Do not consider the newer Marks as C&C cut materials and strength in the newer boats to reduce weight. The Mark Is are every sturdy boats, and quite fast. I think the C&C 27 Mark I is a much better boat than comparables from Catalina or other makes, and I'd say a good one should serve you well. When you get enough experience to understand what you bought, you won't be dissapointed. You might consider whether you can afford to move to a C&C 30 Mark I as the extra room and performance will allow the boat to satisfy you longer. The guy who bought my C&C 30 mark I 20 years ago still owns it...I should have kept it!


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## Goodnewsboy (Nov 4, 2006)

I will second the positive comments on the C&C 27 and 30 MKI. These are well made, stiff, fast, and seakindly vessels that perform beyond their size. I am a 30 MkI owner and am continually impressed by the quality of design and build of these "good old boats".

You will find that C&C used better materials (they have stainless keel bolts) and very fine workmanship in their construction.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Goodnewsboy said:


> You will find that C&C used better materials (they have stainless keel bolts) and very fine workmanship in their construction.


Generally, stainless steel is a lousy material for keelbolts... 

Keelbolts are usually sitting in water for long periods of time, and usually quite oxygen-deprived, since the water isn't circulating... so stainless steel will rust through fairly quickly in that situation. Galvanized steel bolts are stronger and usually a better choice for such a situation. Also, chloride stress cracking and crevice corrosion are serious issues with stainless steel keelbolts.

More expensive materials are necessarily better materials, as what is the best material is often determined by what the use is...

That said, I do like the C&C boats, and have sailed on the 27, 30 and 38.


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## Goodnewsboy (Nov 4, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Generally, stainless steel is a lousy material for keelbolts.


All I can tell you is that mine are bright and shiny and haven't been replaced.


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## 7tiger7 (May 30, 2006)

Thanks for all the tips guys, I seem to be getting a better idea of what sort of boat to get. I want to avoid the trap of just getting a bigger boat, I still think something around 27 is my best bet - small enough to singlehand whenever I want, large enough to weekend with a few friends.
I don't need the "best" boat around, but don't want the "worst" - I don't care about luxury, just decent quality - so I guess "mid-range" boats are my target.
C&C 27 looks pretty good so far - found one for $11,000 in maine, take a look:

http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/263180610.html

Seems to be alright... any thoughts?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Get a survey... this is optional, but really stupid not to do...


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## Gary M (May 9, 2006)

That looks like a pretty decent boat and it is the Mk III which is the largest. 
Sailingdog is correct you MUST get a survey. As I said early these boats almost all have wet spots in the deck. A couple of isolated wet spots where the deck is not spongy may be OK but you really need to know what you are buying. 

One thing you have to remember when buying a boat is you will sell it some day and you want someting that will sell.

You can get a pretty good idea what shape the deck is in when you first look at it. Walk every where on deck and do little bounces on the ball of one foot. Any mushy spots will show up. If you do not find any then an offer and then a survey would be in order. The C & C had a fairly decent layer of glass over the balsa core so some wet spots may not be too bad. Ask your surveyor. 

Gary


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

7tiger7 said:


> Thanks for all the tips guy....
> C&C 27 looks pretty good so far - found one for $11,000 in maine, take a look:
> 
> http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/263180610.html
> ...


Looks like a good example of a Mark I, I don't know where the Mark III comment comes from...If the hull is a well done Awlgrip, that's a plus, its odd it has a wheel which would not be original and as such deserves to be looked at very closely. The 30's mostly came with wheels which worked well in its cockpit, and I personally found the wheel very satisfactory, even though we primarily raced the boat.

The best way to figure out whether a boat is a good deal (a good boat at a fair price) is to look at three or four examples of the same boat, and you should try to so that, even if it involves trips down the East coast to find them...You can itemize the features and options of the diferent examples to work out what a good market value is, and also get a handle for common issues. With older boats for comparatively short money, its easy for the value of the boats to vary widely based on upgrades and equipment, where the prices may not.

You can't go wrong with C&C's of this age...


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## Gary M (May 9, 2006)

Sorry if it is 27' 11" long it is a Mark III, check out the details under Johnrb's post. 

The Mark III did come from the factory with a wheel I know of several friends that had one. 

Gary


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

*Marks Galore*



Gary M said:


> Sorry if it is 27' 11" long it is a Mark III, check out the details under Johnrb's post.
> 
> The Mark III did come from the factory with a wheel I know of several friends that had one.
> 
> Gary


Gary,
Right you are, I guess I should have anticipated that someone from Ontario would have the accurate skinny on anything C&C. I had assumed the 27 Mark versions matched the 30's, but that is not so. It seems that the 30 Mark I actually coincided with that 27 Mark II, and the 27 Marks I-IV are essentially variations on the common early hull form, only the Mark V is a new design/construction. That early hull form is a very proven commodity that powered boats of these lengths 24-25-27-30-33-35-38 all of which still race well today.

All said, the link in question would be a desireable model...


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## Ronbye (Nov 16, 2005)

You can't go wrong with a C&C 27, they are fast, very seaworthy, comfortable down below, have good engines, either the Atomic 4 gas or small diesal. Highly recommend them. I would stick with the 1970's versions of this boat. The latest 27, is not much bigger than the older 25. Be sure you get a survey done first and don't jump at the first one you see. At our club, the C&C is the dominate brand of boat.


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## Johnrb (Sep 21, 2002)

I can't comment specifically on the boat you found but the C&C 27 class association has a useful post on buying a 27 and problems to watchout for. As always, if the boat pasts first inspection, get a survey.

http://www.cc27association.com/fixes/buying.html

BTW - another way of determining if it's a Mark III or later is to look at the keel and rudder. C&C changed the shape of the rudder noticeably and the keel slightly in these models. The rudder on this boat appears to be the high aspect ratio design.


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## 7tiger7 (May 30, 2006)

Wow,
thanks guys for all the opinions. I'm hesitant to just pick out one boat so early in my search, without making a list of all the available 25 - 30 footers, and then making pro's and con's on each. But, I like the way the C&C looks inside and out, seems about the right size for my needs, and well - if you guys say it's pretty good, it must be.
Well, I will continue my search (and learning), and add a plus sign next to the C&C.
Thanks!


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## 7tiger7 (May 30, 2006)

I think the only question (concern) I have is why the C&C 27 doesn't have an aft bunk (I presume because of tankage) - but this might be a problem if I plan to sail for a weekend with 2 couples (2+2).
Hmm...


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

*Aft bunk*



7tiger7 said:


> I think the only question (concern) I have is why the C&C 27 doesn't have an aft bunk (I presume because of tankage) - but this might be a problem if I plan to sail for a weekend with 2 couples (2+2).
> Hmm...


An quarterberth in a 27 isn't likely to be big enough for two unless the boat isn't designed for an IB. The C&C models in question have a dinette that makes down into a decent double, works just fine for two couples...to the extent 27 feet can work...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Trying to weekend with two couples on a 27' boat is not workable, unless the two couples are very tolerant of each other...


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

*2 couples on a 27ft*

the catalina 27 says it sleeps 5...

they forgot to mention that 3 of them had better be midgets that aren't claustrophobic.

I tell people that it will sleep 2 family members or 3 really good friends.

the cat 30 WILL sleep 5 adults comfortably for a weekend.

the freedom 33 will... well, grab the twister and the wesson oil, we're havin a party! sleeps 2 in Front Vee, 2 on a double made out of the dinette, and one single.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

One of my friends described his C&C 38 as a boat that sails six, feeds four and sleeps two... I doubt you're going to have more accomodations on a boat 11' shorter...  Most boats say they can sleep far more people that is actually realistic... sounds great on the showroom floor and in the brochures, but it is really not feasible in the real world.


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## Goodnewsboy (Nov 4, 2006)

7tiger7 said:


> I think the only question (concern) I have is why the C&C 27 doesn't have an aft bunk (I presume because of tankage) - but this might be a problem if I plan to sail for a weekend with 2 couples (2+2).
> Hmm...


The 27 and 30 are similar in many ways, including the lack of a quarter berth. I view this as a positive, because you have two rather large locker spaces accessible from the cockpit that, properly used, will free up a lot of space ( Can you say vee berth?) below on those cold or rainy days when everyone wants out of the weather.

BTW, a dodger is a especially desirable asset to these boats on such days.


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## jimq26 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Something is wrong at that price.*

A top notch C&C 27 goes for around $22,000 to $26,000 in our Lake Ontario region.
Better closely check for wet spots (balsa is notorious in these).


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## Goodnewsboy (Nov 4, 2006)

It seems that the C&C 27 and 30 are highly regarded in Canada (Great Lakes and Atlantic provinces) and command significantly higher prices there.

Do check the deck of a C&C 27 for spongy spots, but I think that these boats are superior in that respect to some earlier C&C designs, such as the Corvette. My own boat has a bit of delamination that I found by sounding (tapping) out the deck, but it does not seem to have any wet core. Your surveyor should check this for you.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

7tiger7 said:


> Thanks for all the tips guys, I seem to be getting a better idea of what sort of boat to get. I want to avoid the trap of just getting a bigger boat, I still think something around 27 is my best bet - small enough to singlehand whenever I want, large enough to weekend with a few friends.
> I don't need the "best" boat around, but don't want the "worst" - I don't care about luxury, just decent quality - so I guess "mid-range" boats are my target.


Seems like you should look at boats in the 27 - 30' range.

There are lots of them out there, Catalina 27 and 30, O'day 28 and 30, Newport 28 and 30, C&C 27 and 29, Tartan, Irwin, S2, etc.

You will find that 27' boats are cheaper, 30' boats have a lot more room.
IMHO, two couples should be able to spend a weekend on a 27' boat. Not longer, but a day or two should not be a problem.

If you are serious, I have a 1986 Newport 28 for sale that would definitely meet your needs. I don't want to advertise here, so let me know if you are interested. The boat is on the north shore of Long Island, not TOO far from you.

If I were you, I would not consider a boat with a gasoline engine. Those engines are very old, very primitive (they still have points), and very undesirable. You will be better off with a diesel engine.

If you want to spend weekends aboard, things like hot water, pressure water in the galley and head, standing headroom, A/C power system, etc. are all desirable.

One thing you should do is look at lots of boats. The more you look the more you will get an idea of what you like and what you don't.

Good luck,
Barry


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## Goodnewsboy (Nov 4, 2006)

With all due respect, a gasoline engine, well maintained, is no drawback to a sailboat. In virtually every case this will be an Atomic Four, and this comment is directed to that engine.

They are easier to work on, quieter in operation, and parts and service are readily available, usually at at significantly less cost. When you have to send your injectors or fuel pump off to a high-priced diesel shop as I must soon do, you will appreciate the simplicity. If that makes them "very primitive", I say bring it on.

There are still a great number of these engines around pushing auxiliary sailboats, and they have a lot of support. See the following sites:

http://www.moyermarine.com/catalog.htm
http://www.alberg30.org/maintenance/MechanicalPropulsion/Atomic4/A4parts.html
http://www.vinci.org/rlv/blue-angel/atomic4/atomic4.html
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/atomic4manual/atomic4parts.htm
http://www.pearsonvanguard.homestead.com/files/atomic4.htm

The only drawback is that they will burn somewhat more fuel. If it is your primary means of propulsion, that favors the diesel every time.

There is also the issue of fuel safety. Gasoline must be treated with respect, according to the well established rules for its handling and storage.

I am not saying that you should favor a gasoline engine. The objective is a reliable engine _and a good boat_. Let your surveyor and your mechanic be your guide.

Finally, diesel engines are very costly, and a boat with a gasoline engine will probably sell for a little less than its equal with diesel power, assuming equivalent condition and gear, and that should be part of your calculus.

Have fun.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Note From Ontario - home of the C&C's:

C&C 27's are great boats - everyone up here knows and accepts the fact. But the balsa in the decks gets mushy - everyone knows, accepts and repairs it.

If the decks have not been recored - then plan on having to do it. This is messy and frustrating if you do it yourself. It is expensive and frustrating if you hire someone else to do it.

It seems cheap - but ALL boats are cheaper in the US. The world is not fair and I guess it's the price we Canadians have topay for universal access to medical care.

That said - compare it others on Yachtworld.com There is a quote on here somewhere from someone's wife who is a wise woman. She said that anything outside the normal price range for a model of boat is priced that way for a reason, and you get what you pay for. 

The Atomic IV is a good engine. Make sure you run your bilge blower before you start it. It is way quieter than any diesel.

There were over a thousand C&C 27's built - don't jump at the first one you see.

They have excellent resale value - and you will want a bigger boat one day.

Don't get too excited about things like hot water/showers/fancy this and automatic that. You will spend 90% of your time in the cockpit of the boat.

Make sure you have cockpit cushions, a good icebox, a decent stereo and a barbecue on the stern rail.

Wheel steering is okay, but tillers rule on small boats - especially if you are still learning how to sail.

Also check out Bristols, Pearson, Columbias, Hughes, Paceships in the same size range. CS is also good but they are prone to blisters. Most of them have been barrier-coated by now

Keep the pointy end forward.


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## captainmark (Jun 21, 2015)

I have owned 2 C&C boats.A 35MKII 1974 and a 36 1978. My friend owned a 27 and my other bud had a 30. these were both 1973 to1974 boats. That said the 27 is a great little boat for 2 people or one to cruise. They sail great. Now beware. Hinterholler quit building for C&C in 1975. The 1974 35 MKII was brilliant. It would out point anything on the water and was so well balanced that you could set the rig screw down the wheel brake and it would sail for hours without an autopilot. The construction of the hinterholler boats was beautiful. hand layed glass smooth perfect and painted even in places you couldn't see. The 78 36 was horrible. the construction was shoddy and it sailed like a truck. where you could sail the 35 mkII with 2 fingers on the wheel the 36 had constant weather helm. I am looking at a 27 MKI 1973 right now. The atomic four is a great motor. Most have been running for 40 years and you can get parts at autozone because its basically a willys jeep engine. Of course get a good survey but I doubt you will find to many of the old hinterholler boats with delams. The boats after 1975 had blisters delms and should be really looked at carefully before one opens the check book. newer aint necessarily better. Just stick you arm in the hull to deck joint of a newer catalane or hunter and it will be shredded and bloody when you pull it out.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Eight year old thread. I think the original poster has made up his mind by now.


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## doogymon (Apr 6, 2008)

Great Thread!

Really enjoyed the testimonials

Hope it keeps going.

My little C&C 27 keeps me smiling after a mundane spell in the cubicle.

Doog


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