# O'day mariner sea capabilities?



## kinse26 (May 17, 2010)

Hi there,

I'm considering buying a 1970 O'day mariner 19. I have little experience sailing and have discovered through research that this is a good stable, safe boat to learn on.
I live in Newfoundland where there are many sheltered bays in which to sail but it is almost always windy which of courses creates a fair bit of choppy water.
I am wondering if the mariner 19 is a good, safe boat for salt water (not the open ocean) but large open bays. It appears that most people use this boat on fresh water lakes.
I have also been looking into the sandpiper 565. 
If anyone has any advice on the sea capabilities of either of these boats, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Mike


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## klem (Oct 16, 2009)

There are many mariners out there doing coastal sailing and they are suited just fine to it. Very few of the ones that I have seen or sailed on have been set up for reefing so you would probably need to do that if it tends to be windy. They are not the fastest boat in a chop but they still move along just fine although they are a bit wet.

I believe that there were both centerboard and keel models and you would probably want to look for a keel model.


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## kinse26 (May 17, 2010)

Thanks for the advice Klem. The boat that I am looking at is a centreboard model.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Don't remember if the Mariner had an open or self-bailing cockit. If not self-bailing, that would be a concern.


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## scotthenry (Apr 4, 2010)

*ODay Mariner 19*

I have a 1977 model O'Day Mariner with centerboard, and I find it to be somewhat overcanvassed for even the lighter wind areas of the southern San Francisco and northern Monterey Bays, at least with only 1 or 2 people on board.
Yes, it does have a self-draining cocpit; however the drains are so small that they clog easily.
My boat came with reef points in the (rather worn out) main; the first thing I did after cleaning the bottom was to put in some jiffy reefing hardware.
In my opinion it's a much better lake than ocean boat.

I wish I had my old Montgomery 17, that was a rugged little sea boat! (many single-handed trips to the SoCal channel islands when I lived down there).


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## Wuffie (Jan 25, 2010)

A very good friend of mine regularly sails his centerboard-model O'Day Mariner on Lake Michigan, which I would not equate with open ocean sailing, but I would say has the potential to equal or exceed the conditions one might find sailing in large open ocean bays. I've joined him on many occasions and have found the boat a delight to sail in waves and wind. Admittedly, we haven't been out in 8 to 10 footers but I'm not sure you want to be out in Lake Michigan in many small boats in those conditions. 

On the big lake, we generally sail with the hatch boards in. While I agree with an earlier poster that the cockpit drains are under-sized, I note that the cockpit is relatively shallow. In terms of reefing, my friend intends to add that capability this year as his boat didn't come with it. The boat could probably stand for a reef at 20 kts of windspeed or so.

For whatever it is worth, by this eye, I find the Mariner to be among the prettiest of the small trailer-sailers. This may have something to do with my understanding (which may be incorrect) that the hull design was based upon the Rhodes 19.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Wuffie said:


> For whatever it is worth, by this eye, I find the Mariner to be among the prettiest of the small trailer-sailers. This may have something to do with my understanding (which may be incorrect) that the hull design was based upon the Rhodes 19.


Your right. Same hull.


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## klem (Oct 16, 2009)

If it is a centerboard model and it is really windy where you sail, it might not be ideal. If you need a centerboard for other reasons, it could be made to work with a good reefing system but if a centerboard isn't necessary, there are probably better options.


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## slap (Mar 13, 2008)

About 40 years ago, a Mariner got caught in a thunderstorm on Lake Charlevoix in Michigan. The boat ended up getting swamped (including the cabin). Fortunately, the boat didn't sink, and everyone survived ok. I don't know if it was the keel or the centerboard version.

I was out on my sunfish sailboat on the same lake but a few miles away, so I didn't see it first hand.


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## Kaedmon (Jan 25, 2012)

Pleased to discover this discussion. I am planning a similar voyage, only in reverse (initially) - from the Keewenaw on Lake Superior downstream to Newfoundland is the dream.

I am sailing an O'Day Mariner 19 2+2, the keeled version. Brilliant little sloop. I know it is on the small side, but I love the quote, paraphrasing: "Big boats attract big forces."

[Around the world at 73, in a ten foot boat... excellent prior r/Sailing post](Present Project)

I have a lot of work and preparation ahead of me, and I an glad for the Mariner, because scaling these preparations up for a larger vessel would be an order of magnitude more expensive, consuming and daunting:

+I am going to reinforce the entire transom, both for the outboard mount and rudder gudgeon security, as well as to keep the transom firmly attached!

+get 3000 gph, at least, out of two bilge pumps, keep the spare or mount it somewhere remote/hard to access. Route the auto pump out the transom high, instead of the less than ideal factory arrangement of through a companionway hatch to two cockpit scuppers. I also don't like the vulnerability of the scupper throughhulls vis-a-vis the floating cabin sole ply board. Rework. Back this gph with serious juice:

+Overhaul the entire electrical: from dual deep batteries secured in a custom box where the portapot used to go - centered, just forward the keel timbers - instead of in a lazarette, as designed. LED lighting throughout, including running, reading rechargeable anchor light, and lazarette illumination.

+ got the perfect humminbird plotter/sounder combination, JUST sprang for the superb HX851, looking to replace the fixed vhf with Standard Horizon's AIS-VHF combo, proximity alarms, in lieu of radar for the fog and shipping. Score a large-ish, flexible solar array for chargin the bank on calm days, and a square panel permanent into the forward hatch cover for a small constant trickle (i have a long shaft outboard, but no alternator)... wondering if wind generation is better for up North here, but like the idea of solar. Several other electrical concerns I've likely forgotten now. Here's one: I'd like to glass in the fuel tank lazarette section, and replace it with a plastic tank to fit, as the metal can corrodes, and the lazarettes are open to the bilge: fume explosion risk with no blower planned, gimbaled tiny alcohol stove, and the current sitch just moves striping to much.

+I'd like to have a water tank opposite eventually, but we will just filter the lakes until Southern Huron if we drain the onboard beverages while out there.

+JUST picked up Bushnell scopes with illum compass, beautiful, too. Need to arrange for paper chart table on the v birth. Thinking of ditching all the cushions except maybe one quarter birth's, for space, covering the horizontal surfaces with seatek for some comfort and getting one great waterproof ocean style sleeping bag and some sort of flat waterproof clothes storage to dual porpoise extra sprawl "comfort" padding. Space is tight, but I figure I have the displacement, and need, for 850 pounds of gear.

+ at fifteen pounds, 800 some bucks, gonna carry a two man life raft. Have drysuits, helmets, wetsuits, type three vests with whistles and strobes, knives and spikes.. Need some more booties and gloves, caps.. It can be a somewhat wet cockpit.

+ need fore and aft webbing, harnesses, pulpit and lifelines. May just redo the entire rubrail and stapled hull-deck joint during this process. Reinforce the bow, shroud areas, as transom, beefy cleats, couple good mount small winches for whatever, more anchor options, 6 foot sea anchor... there's ALWAYS a lee shore in the Great Lakes. A series drogue seems ill-advised for such a small, low, boat with a large exposed cockpit. Running rig is good. Spring for new standing rigging, probably never been done. A roller furling heads'l would be beaut, especially without a pulpit currently, or cut a storm jib. Reefing points. Got a good amount of sail repair supply, tools, backup lighting. Flares. Just picked up waterproofed iPad to augment charts, stealing marina wifi, going ashore, occasional movie and extra books and reading. Might have to bring a Mac to get work done. Gah! Pelican case. Paper reading? Bowditch's, Calder's, Pardey's, even Esquemelin. So many titles you want to bring, so little dry space on a nineteen foot boat. Apart from that, need a Coast Pilot. Odds and ends are set.

+Note to self: bring peanut butter, French Press. Some safe way to make hot coffee when everything is rough. Maybe I should stick to electric kettle instead of gimbal wall-mount stove? Battery draw vs. discrete fuel. Any suggestions? I can't be entirely without comforts (coffee).

+ there's SO MUCH to do, and I am aiming before forty, when I might have more self preservation interest that argues for a larger boat.

+ replace & augment all the floatation to all but guarantee positive buoyancy. Only worry is the keel ripping off or hitting a partially submerged tree. The away bag is already packed.

+ maybe a family member cares enough about me to invest in an EPIRB.

+ carry plenty of little odds and ends, hardware, curved/curvable wood "scrap" and plenty of 5200 for breach repair while underway.

+ a good friend as avoid as myself, as no precaution compares to being awake and rational at the helm.

I know I'm forgetting some plans...

Oh yeah. Learned not to trust outboards, especially for river duty. She's gonna have an oar station in the big beautiful cockpit, double as boat hook, strap them to stanchions while sailing.

Inspired by the Norseboat and [ArcticMariner.org](ArcticMariner.org), but cannot afford the Norseboat. I think I will appreciate the full keel, unless Crazy Eddy's take me, or too many missed beachable stopovers make me long for the swing keel... but I think better stability, windward performance and solidity is worth the additional permanent draft and weight.

~

So, the plan is the big Lakes get a thorough exploration, especially my childhood home of Northern Lake Michigan. Perhaps the following season, Toronto, St. Lawrence, winter in Montreal ou Quebec. Perfect the French (with 17th Century bumokin Northwoods French!), Gulf of St. Lawrence and Newfoundland following season, where I've dreamt of exploring, then make it around the Fax to Rockland, where I get the Mariner outfit for Blue Water at Stuart Marine.

Do I risk jumping the big pond in this??!

I was taken aback by how encouraging r/Sailing was to the inexperienced circumnavigation hopeful.	A lot of thought and prep, and/or money, and/or blind guts need go into such a thing.

I'd REALLY like to get her to the Mediterranean, and ultimately the Indian Ocean, or the Caribbean as runner up. Returning back to Newfoundland or Northern Michigan to farm quietly.

Am I crazy?

I have 45 foot ketch charter, sailing instructor, commercial fishing experience, so I know what it potentislly takes if you want to do it safely. I have fast tidal experience aboard my old Pearson 30, in San Francisco Bay, and I've worked on marine systems up to the point of going aloft on Bill Buckley's old schooner, Cyrano... but one can never be too prepared.

It IS a nineteen foot vessel, and I hate sharks!

I am worried about reengineering the self-draining cockpits to be larger diameter. I would like to put seacocks or some such... the bare hose clamps on thru hulls worry me a great deal.

I am also considering rerigging as a bowsprit cutter as I replace the standing rigging... gaff rigged, shorter, sturdier mast, beefier mast support arch or post, reefing and stays'l options, and short bowsprit to meet the legal requirements of 20 foot LOA of the St. Lawrence seaway locks.

Any advice is welcome. Who am I to second guess the elegant Rhodes-designed sloop, but a strong, shorter, monolithic mainmast and a gaff main with rings instead of a bolt rope would make me a lot more comfortable.
Besides, then I could get all new tanbark sails!

I am open to any other ideas to make this laker a seaworthy as possible.

The little Mariner has a Dansk name, and a Celtic skipper... it's bound to go well: they've always gotten along great! ;-j

Here she is now:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yFhHZAjbR2U/THuy68mMQYI/AAAAAAAAAqc/uG0CfvFG03U/s1600/P4140574.JPG


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## Kaedmon (Jan 25, 2012)

Here's an idea of the cutter rig I had in mind:

Rerigging Sketch


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## Degas (Nov 15, 2010)

Reviving this thread because I had a 1968 O'Day Mariner 2+2 for 10 years on Lake St-Louis in Montreal.

Add my vote to scotthenry and Wuffie: 

Delightful boat. Spacious cockpit with (small) scuppers. Room for 4 adults with a cooler and an afternoon, or even 2 adults and a weekend in the enclosed cabin.

At 1300lbs and 19 feet it acts like a small sailboat. With only 150lbs in its centerboard, it can act like a big dinghy.

A 10kt wind is the sweet spot. The Mariner is a joy, responsive and surprisingly fast for an older design.

But when it's over 15kts then choose your crew carefully. Some nimble human ballast is necessary. Keep the hatchboards in and tie down the lazarettes. My main had 1 reef, maybe it should have had 2. 

When the wind hit 20+ kts I'd just stay home.

I had one knockdown, caught by a gust when my hand should have been on the mainsheet. The main was half-submerged so I had to swim around to the centerboard for a little persuasion. She popped back on her feet quickly.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

For what it is worth, the Mariner began life as the Rhodes 19 and in its earliest form was delivered with the same bulb keel as the Rhodes 19. The very first Mariner I saw (1962 or 1963) had the same wood slatted seats and cockpit sole as the original Rhodes 19. At some point early in production the centerboard version was offered as an option and shortly after the self-bailing cockpit was offered. 

While these were very nice daysailors and passable overnighters, the hull form would not make a Mariner a good foundation to build an offshore cruiser as one of the posters seems to suggest doing. If one wanted to sail in higher breezes and rougher sea states with a Rhodes 19, ideally it would be one of the keel models and one with a self bailing cockpit. I would certainly want to be able to reef the mainsail and add big cockpit drains out through the transom with flaps to prevent following waves from filling the cockpit. These boats get much harder to steer and lose a lot of stability once there is water in the cockpit. 

Someone above mentioned switching to a gaff rig. That would be a really bad idea. The Rhodes 19/Mariner 19 would also be a poor platform for a gaff rig since the center of lateral resistance is too far forward. Also this is too small a boat to make any sense as a cutter rig as well. The reality is that these boats sail very nicely and are well designed for their intended purpose. There is no reason to change the rig since it works so well with the boat as designed. 

Respectfully,
Jeff


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## Géry (Aug 5, 2021)

Kaedmon said:


> Pleased to discover this discussion. I am planning a similar voyage, only in reverse (initially) - from the Keewenaw on Lake Superior downstream to Newfoundland is the dream.
> 
> I am sailing an O'Day Mariner 19 2+2, the keeled version. Brilliant little sloop. I know it is on the small side, but I love the quote, paraphrasing: "Big boats attract big forces."
> 
> ...


I love your spirit. Did you ever do any part of this trip? It would be great to hear about.


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## johnanddiann (6 mo ago)

Géry said:


> I love your spirit. Did you ever do any part of this trip? It would be great to hear about.


 I agree, I'd love to hear about your adventures with Søhest!


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