# Newbie First Boat



## veprjack (Jun 10, 2011)

Already got a ton of help on this forum. Saw two C30s yesterday, and they were good, but didn't jump out at me. Since I'll be living aboard and have a small budget, the C30 would be a good choice.

I've also been told that, although "smaller" for living aboard than a C30, the Pearsons are a good choice. I stumbled across a C&C and did some research. They also seem to be a good boat with strength and sailability. I do NOT want to start a thread war, as I know owner loyalty is strong - and have been told that C30 owners are VERY VERY loyal but, the pictures (and they can be deceiving) of the C&C are pretty nice. 1977 C&C sailboat for sale in Massachusetts

Here's a link to the nice C30 I looked at. It's priced a little high, but has had upgrades and is TURNKEY - Also, I was told an offer of $20K might do it! Merri-Mar Yacht Basin, Inc (Newburyport, MA)

I'd appreciate any comments on the C30, C&C or Pearson. If you happen to have experience with two or more of them, I'd be open to hearing your opinioins/suggestions. It's not necessarily a matter of "this one is better or that one is bad", but rather personal preferences and maybe differences in handling characteristics. For instance, advantages for living aboard, perhaps less weather helm, etc. etc.

As a newbie, maybe I'm asking for the impossible, but I just want to add personal opinions/experiences to what my research will turn up. Also, any specific questions you'd recommend I ask the owners/brokers when I look at these models is greatly appreciated. And yes, I know that the model and year can make a HUGE difference in what to look for, as modifications were made almost every year to address "idiocyncracies" of the boats!

Thanks for the help and the PATIENCE,
Jack


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

They're all fine boats. I like the C&C lines better than the others, but it's a really old boat with a gas engine. As I'm sure others will agree, even though the C&C was supposedly refit 12 years ago, most of that stuff is ready to be replaced even if the boat hasn't been used much (stuff seems to decay faster if not used, IMO). The biggest negative for me is the gas engine.

The Catalina is my choice. It was repowered last year and is a very roomy, stable boat. My dad owned 3 Catalinas, including a 30. I worked for 2 dealers a long time ago. They are great boats and we routinely sailed coastally in the Atlantic including runs to the Chesapeake and to Newport. Catalina makes a great boat for the money. Pearson is out of business and C&C has been through more lives than a cat. I'd but a Catalina if I wasn't hooked on Sabres.


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## veprjack (Jun 10, 2011)

Sabreman, I can't thank you enough for that great advice/observations. To tell you the truth, I am making the usual newbie mistakes, getting excited by pics and overlooking IMPORTANT info like GAS ENGINE - which slipped by me. I've gotten excited about a boat, and after drooling over the pics and descriptions, I finally notice that it's TILLER, not Wheel - nothing wrong with that - just a personal preference!

Thanks again - solid observations. I keep coming back to the C30 - maybe there are REASONS?? Hmmm - now I'll have to investigate SABRES! lol...


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

> 'll have to investigate SABRES!


If you do, you won't go back. Until you see the price tag. :laugher

For a first boat, I'd go with a high volume brand. After you get a few miles under your keel, you'll have some solid opinions and be ready to more objectively assess other builders.

The Internet is a magical thing. LOTS of pictures but you can spend way too much time thrashing. When we bought our last Sabre, the Internet as we know it didn't exist (1987). When we bought Victoria 6 years ago, I thrashed and looked at too many boats of all brands. We ended up using a broker and visiting 3 Sabres in one day and bought the second one. Never saw any of them online before visiting. Moral - Pick your brand & size and then focus. You'll save a lot of time.


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## veprjack (Jun 10, 2011)

Sabreman, THRASHING is a great way to describe exactly what I've been doing! And, you really read what my mind and heart are telling me about going with a high volume brand for a first boat and experiencing things as they are so I'll know what to look for in my subsequent boats.

I think the C30 will be a nice choice for a first boat as it's relatively inexpensive, forgiving, not too big/easy to handle, and BIG/ROOMY inside for a small liveaboard. In a few years, I'll have a total of $40 or $50K to move up - so that will open up my choices.

Thanks for the great advice,
Jack


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

You can also get many replacement parts from Catalina still which you can't say for most other brands.
Catalina Direct:


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## veprjack (Jun 10, 2011)

Thanks Caleb - very important point/aspect of buying a C. Oh, when I mentioned that I'd have $40-$50K, I must have been JOKING - since I don't have ANY electronic equipment right now! lol... Let's see, autopilot, chart plotter, and on and on and on... I LOVE toys - especially when I don't REALLY need them!


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## MSter (Apr 1, 2008)

Jack- 

Have you looked at any Morgan Outisland 28/33's? Keeping your budget in mind, these can be found for far less than a comparably fitted Catalina ($10-18K) These were generally built for the charter trade and were overbuilt as a result....thick hulled, over-sized rigging, etc. These are also very forgiving boats and would make an excellent learning platform while offering maximum living space.

Step back and take an honest inventory of your current situation and how/where you will use the boat. Keep in mind that are compromises for every decision. What makes a good liveaboard boat is usually in contrast with what makes a good passage maker. The trick is to be honest with yourself, understand your limitations, and choose your compromises wisely.


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## Boatinglifeaway (May 17, 2011)

I am so much into facebook. It is so interactive and I look forward to having a lot of sailing friends connected. It gives me the more day to day stories from people. It is almost like you live the adventure on a daily basis with them.


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## Boatinglifeaway (May 17, 2011)

In response to the notice. I am so much into facebook. It is so interactive and I look forward to having a lot of sailing friends connected. It gives me the more day to day stories from people. It is almost like you live the adventure on a daily basis with them.


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## veprjack (Jun 10, 2011)

Mster - I saw some Morgans during my searches, but didn't really go deep. I'll do that today! Thanks. YES - Over the past week, I've been settling in and making a list of what I want, need, willing to compromise, etc. and narrowing down the search. Now I'll (at least temporarily) add Morgan Outisland to the list.

Right now there's a Pearson 303 for sale just 45 minutes from my house, and I'll be looking at it on Friday. I spoke with the owner for almost an hour last night, and although I'm looking for a BOAT, not a new friend - he would be easy to do business with if it gets to that. He told me about a LOT of extra, valuable upgrades he's done which aren't even listed. He really took GREAT care of this boat! Check the boat out and let me know your thoughts/impressions/criticisms/price/value/sea-worthiness/accessories - and live aboardability (did I just make that up?) lol... Used 1984 Pearson 303, Salem MA - 98422369 - BoatTrader.com

THANK YOU!
Jack


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## veprjack (Jun 10, 2011)

I saw some nice older Morgans for $15K or even less. Here's a nice one that is $28K, but just a beautiful specimen - and it IS 34ft. Just posting as eye candy - 1968 Morgan 34 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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## MSter (Apr 1, 2008)

Both the Pearson and Morgan boats you found are really nice looking. When looking at boats in person, actually climb into each berth and visualize yourself sleeping (by yourself and with someone). Go into the head and visualize yourself taking a shower, etc. Sit at the dinette to see if its functional (enough leg room, ease of access). Is there enough room for adequate stores and spare equipment? As you will spend most of your time in the cockpit, determine if there is enough room to both work and relax. All too often these steps are overlooked and the purchase is made....only to find the boat is set up for weekend cruises and not for long term occupancy. 

Be patient and remember....there are more boats for sale than are people buying them!

You will know once you find the right one for you (no matter what we say)..... 

Best of luck.....


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## veprjack (Jun 10, 2011)

Yes MSter - good advice. And isn't it amazing how GOOD some boats look in pics, and when you see them up close - YUCK! Sometimes it's because the pics are OLD - whatever. I have fallen in love numerous times, only to be disappointed after driving over to see them - kinda like my short stint on EHarmony! lol hahahaha I can live with cosmetic issues, but some boats just turned me off. 

Just as you suggested, I sat in every corner of every nav station, berth - hell, I did everything but take a shower and USE the head lol... It DOES make a difference. And, with great powers of visualization and creativity, I can actually get a feel for what it would be like - helps a lot!

Anyway, I don't want to diappoint or jinx, but the Pearson 303 looks like a winner, and I get a GREAT vibe from the elderly gentleman who is selling because of health reasons. With luck, I'll post my observations this weekend after stepping aboard!

Thanks for your help!


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Also keep in mind some of these boats have been for sale for years. Not all, actually most sites don't seem to have the listing date. Sailboatlistings.com does


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## veprjack (Jun 10, 2011)

Denise - good point. Some of the comments by owners give it away sometimes. "Just back from a '09 sail to Bahamas last month and she's ready to go!" lol...


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## Grand River Raider (Jul 19, 2011)

*On the need for some "thrashing"*



Sabreman said:


> The Internet is a magical thing. LOTS of pictures but you can spend way too much time thrashing. When we bought our last Sabre, the Internet as we know it didn't exist (1987). When we bought Victoria 6 years ago, I thrashed and looked at too many boats of all brands.


Hmmm....where have I heard this before?  This is very true and Sabreman is giving some good advice in this area. Having said that, since Sabreman went through it and now you are too, and so have I, it appears to be at least a somewhat common part of the boat buying process. This may be particularly true for us newer sailors and potential first time boat buyers as we learn about the many different characteristics of sailboats. I'll tell you though that for me at least, the thrashing was a necessary part of the process and has largely subsided as I've looked at more boats. The focus is narrowing to a particular length range and brand (or two ) and target boats are coming into focus for more serious inspections and ultimately an offer.

I think the key is to not get paralyzed in the thrashing phase. I'm not sure how one gets to a boat they want without some sorting process. Alternatively, I guess one could plaster pictures to a dart board, close eyes, and hit one and then you have your boat


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## Bluesmoods (Jul 8, 2001)

*C- 30, c&c-30*

Here is the deal.

Having not only owned boats by both manufacturers but also owning a Dealership and selling/maintaining both brands, I would highly recommend the C&C. Catalina is a very good all around boat. It does not have nearly the quality, craftsmanship, sailing capability (That is what Sailing is all about yes?), and integrity of the C&C or Sabre for that matter.

Again, I have owned both and perhaps more importantly, sold and performed service and maintenance on many of the boats by both manufacturers. All and All. *ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL*, C&C would be the better bet.

Now, a used (okay pre-owned), vessel is just that. You might find a C-30 that is in really great shape VS. a C&C that is well, not so good. Go with the cleaner, better condition boat I would say. The Catalina in general provides more living volume boat for boat. That may also be a consideration as you intend to live aboard. The C&C will make up for that under way.

What ever you do, all the best of luck. I am sure you will have a great experience on board which ever boat you decide to persue.


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## veprjack (Jun 10, 2011)

I DID end up with the Pearson 303 and I'm VERY happy. It's a great boat to learn on and it's big enough for me to live on - nice solid boat. C&C is a fine boat, and if I ever decide to get another boat in a few years, it might be the one. Yesterday, the water taxi I was on picked up a gentleman on an Island Packet 31'. THAT is a great boat!

As I become familiar with the boat, I'll post pics, adventures and of course NEWBIE QUESTIONS! lol... 

Thanks for the help,
Jack


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Congrats on a solid process of choosing your boat, thanks for including us in your decision, and keep coming back as you "discover" new things, and we'll help where we can.


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## Grand River Raider (Jul 19, 2011)

veprjack said:


> I DID end up with the Pearson 303 and I'm VERY happy. It's a great boat to learn on and it's big enough for me to live on - nice solid boat. C&C is a fine boat, and if I ever decide to get another boat in a few years, it might be the one. Yesterday, the water taxi I was on picked up a gentleman on an Island Packet 31'. THAT is a great boat!
> 
> As I become familiar with the boat, I'll post pics, adventures and of course NEWBIE QUESTIONS! lol...
> 
> ...


Congrats on the new-to-you boat!


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## Joe_L (Sep 20, 2011)

Wow, that is a nice boat! Congrats on the find and hope you enjoy every minute in it.


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