# Hopes and dreams. Is this realistic?



## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

I'd like some honest opinions from you experienced sailors and livers of life.

In a nutshell-
By March of 2015 I will have roughly $17,000 saved for a move from the mountains of Idaho to somewhere in the southeast. I have no debt except for a $100/ month student loan payment. I'd like to buy a 30 foot boat from the 70's to live aboard and use for coastal sailing. Also I'd like to find a friendly city with decent work opportunities and good cruising grounds for a novice sailor. I have only 3 sailing seasons under my belt on a '74 Columbia 23 on Payette Lake in McCall, ID. From what I've seen on Craigslist for cities like Annapolis, Oriental and St. Augustine etc. there seems to always be a handful of boats that would fit my $5,000 to $10,000 price range. My plan in March is to have all my possessions in a small enough heap to fit into my '94 4Runner and head to the east coast looking for my boat and the city I want to liveaboard and work in. BTW, I'm used to living a very a frugal life. Am I crazy? Do I need ALOT more money?

Thank you in advance for your time and wisdom

As far as job skills-
Bachelors degree with a double major in psychology and philosophy.
14 years of photojournalism and commercial photography.
1 year of woking on classic wooden boats roughly 20 hours a week.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Yours seems like a good plan. Charleston SC is a surprisingly cosmopolitan town, especially for the south. It's possible to anchor in the river there or use one of several marinas around the area. It's also possible to find a cheap dock behind someone's house, too. Most likely Fla would be the best place to find a boat, but in this internet world, who knows. Buying in the north in late fall or winter can save you tons of money, though. Good luck.


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## paikea (Aug 3, 2014)

The plan is realistic and I will not do the "it depends" answer although it does come down to that. More exactly it depends on you. Some people could do this even with a starting capital of 5K and others wouldn't be able to do it with a starting capital of 50K. Or even if things are handed on a platter for them they would still mess up.
Buying a boat and moving aboard might be the easy steps as well but then you need a job and with your degrees unless you have a good portfolio for the photography and journalism part it will be hard to find at at first a job in this area. As I am sure you know this is a tough area to make it in especially after the explosion of digital photography and blogging. But as long as you are willing to do any honest job and willing to learn anything new to survive while you land a more steady opportunity aligned with your skills and education you will do just fine. There is always work around to keep you afloat. You just need to have the right attitude for it. I had many people telling me they cannot find jobs and giving me some long list of degrees. What I respect the most is someone doing what needs to be done with what's available and possible at any given moment and not just wait and complain meanwhile for sunnier days. You are willing to work, you have the right attitude, you have the character, then you have what it takes to make this a realistic plan short and long term.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I would find the job first. Will it be a suit and tie job, or jeans and t-shirt or between? It could impact how much hanging storage, how clean and dry, etc, you need. A salary will also give you a better budget for fixed costs, like marinas or moorings. 

While boats are mobile, by definition, the only exception is when they have to be moved! Find a job a couple of hundred miles from your new boat and that will be the week that weather or mechanical failures prevent the move. You should also research the availability of live aboard marinas in the area of your job search. They are sadly becoming fewer. Reportedly, you can forget living at anchor in FL these days.

Some final unsolicited advice. Don't buy a sailboat to live aboard, unless you actually plan to sail it frequently. That means, don't buy a fixer upper that you'll never get back into shape, while working all day. Keep her clean and neat and sail ready, not covered in crates of stuff that doesn't fit aboard, which your neighbors would despise. If you don't plan to leave the dock, get a houseboat, which are bigger and more comfortable.

Your goals certainly seem attainable and realistic, given your experience and assets. Much better than the crowd that wants to sail around the world on their $5,000 cruiser with no experience! 

Best of luck. Stick around and let us know how you're making out.


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

Thank you for your responses! 

Learning to sail and sail safely is my number one priority. I've become obsessed with sailing over the last three years. It's all I think about over our long cold winters here. I felt like a needed a reality check from actual sailors so I than you.

In the long run, I'd like to start working toward my captains license while I'm working a job and getting time on the water. Although, I don't even know if I get seasick. Lol.

Also, I have parents living in Peachtree City near Atlanta and a sister living in DC near Annapolis so I can have a free place to stay for a little bit while I look for my job and boat.

I've been working 7 days a week (photography and wood boats) for almost a year now saving up money for this adventure. I'll keep you all updated as much as I can.

In the next few months my savings will hopefully accelerate after my 14 yr old Golden Retriever passes. I love my dog and am staying in our own house with a nice yard until he goes. Then I'll rent a room from a friend for the rest of the winter, much cheaper.

Thank you again for letting me know I'm not crazy!! Off to work again...


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## svzephyr44 (Jun 26, 2000)

Yes I think you can do this. 

What I want to caution you about is winter. Living on a sailboat in winter can get very cold. Most sailboats - and certainly the ones you would be looking at - are not insulated. That means that the interior surfaces of the hull will be the same temperature as the water outside. It is, in my experience, much harder to keep a boat warm in winter than cool in summer. A poor metaphor is sitting on a lawn chair with a space heater while being surrounded by an ice cube.

This suggests that for year round live aboard status in one place (where you have a job) you want to limit your choices on the East Coast to South Carolina and Georgia. North Carolina is possible but iffy, last year in the Neuse River the water temperature got to 33 degrees for most of January and February. Florida is up in the air. Getting hull insurance in Florida is very expensive in hurricane season. If you can afford to risk of going liability insurance only (something that is going to be required in most marinas) then Florida goes back into the possible column.

On another subject: If you are going to purchase a cheap boat (say an old Catalina 30 for $5,000) don't invest in it! You can expect an almost zero return on investment. It never ceases to amaze me that people will repower a $5,000 boat for $7,000. When they are done they have a $5,000 boat that will sell faster because it has a new engine.

In the used boat market the most important attribute is the engine. Particularly if you are handy you can fix almost anything on a boat. But unless you are very skilled rebuilding an engine should not be in the cards. You can purchase used sails, etc. inexpensively if you do your research and your motivation is to just get out and cruise. Now having said that of course the boat has to be sound - no delamination in the hull, etc. But engines are the killer to budgets.

Fair winds and following seas


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Sherwood71 said:


> ...... I don't even know if I get seasick. Lol.....


Of course you do. Everyone does sooner or later.

The most likely time you'll get seasick is on your early ocean voyages. Your nerves will be a little on edge, you're already thinking about it. That's half the recipe right there. Don't get discouraged, if you find you suffer at first.


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## sailpower (Jun 28, 2008)

svzephyr44 said:


> Yes I think you can do this.
> 
> What I want to caution you about is winter. Living on a sailboat in winter can get very cold.


As was said to me as I moved aboard in Boston; Living on a sailboat in winter is the most expensive way there is to go second class.


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## kbyte (Jun 6, 2007)

You might want to get a quickie bar tending certificate. With majors in philosophy and psychology you should be able to get a bartending job at any tiki bar on the coast. 

BTW, I don't think the water in the Neuse got below 58 last Winter. The air maybe once or twice, but not the water. I would have noticed that.


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## MonkeysFist (Sep 11, 2014)

Anything is doable if you want it enough. To my ear, your budget sounds like a small fortune for a young single guy.

Personally, I'd cruise the coast by car and check out some of the marinas. Since you sound pretty open, decide on the one or two you like the best (and which look most affordable - slip prices vary quite a bit) and go from there. I also liked Charleston, but pretty much every port on both coasts have healthy sailing communities. And yacht brokers, and for-sale-by-owner boats, and liveaboard 'situations' - legal or not-so-much. If you're willing to do pretty much anything, you will find work - I can see those boat woodworking skills integrating you into the boating community pretty quickly. And getting you rides on other people's boats, and perhaps them on yours. All of which will build your skills, knowledge and confidence.

Sailors, as a whole, are the nicest, most helpful and most willing to help people on earth. If you're cut from the same cloth, you won't have any major problems. And seasickness does go away when you stop rocking and rolling.


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## dorymate1 (Dec 6, 2011)

Check out Wilmington NC May some boats available that meet your needs. Live aboard friendly marinas available. Less expensive than larger metro areas but work available dockage rates as low as 8/ft / mo available. Southport also but less work available there.


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## Tenoch (Sep 28, 2012)

Wow, all the nay-sayers must be sleeping in today. Yes you have enough money, yes you can do it, and yes it will be awesome. At least it was for me, and I did it in a colder environment with a LOT less money.


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## paikea (Aug 3, 2014)

Tenoch said:


> Wow, all the nay-sayers must be sleeping in today. Yes you have enough money, yes you can do it, and yes it will be awesome. At least it was for me, and I did it in a colder environment with a LOT less money.


So much nicer and warmer and productive for people overall to simply be a little optimistic and encouraging rather than belittling someone's hopes and dreams.  And even better when that's combined with some good advise, facts, data, guidance. In the end, nothing is impossible. He is now still in early stages, and I can relate to how he feels, every now and then we all need a little encouraging and support.


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## svzephyr44 (Jun 26, 2000)

kbyte said:


> BTW, I don't think the water in the Neuse got below 58 last Winter. The air maybe once or twice, but not the water. I would have noticed that.


Well I was sitting in New Bern with a thermometer in the water. And a thin crust of ice around the boat. Not exactly the Neuse, that started 100 feet away on the other side of the Cunningham Bridge.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Check out Craigslist for cheap dockage.

A 100 watt solar panel will give you evening lecky PROVIDING you do not run a fridge and have LED lights and a tablet.

In Florida make sure you can pass inspection by the 'potty' police.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

I am surprised no one has chimed in to tell you that it cannot be done because everyone knows that you need a forty footer with full electronics, sat phone, insurance and $10K a month to go cruising.

Seriously though, I have met several young people (Even some not so young) who have done it on less than you are starting with; in some cases a *lot* less. There are serviceable boats out there for less than $5K and a little sweat equity and discipline will take you a lot of sea miles.

Go for it.


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## paikea (Aug 3, 2014)

Ahh vega1860, I was looking earlier today at your wife's photographs. They are wonderful, please tell her so from me. And so surprising to read she still does film photography. I love my digital cameras, but its a totally different ball game when I shoot analog and develop in my own darkroom. Its becoming more and more a lost art. But hopefully not totally.


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

Thank you all for your responses! Very Kind! It's good to hear that what I want to do is within reason.

When I originally posted this I figured I would get mocked for asking a such a "newbie" question.

I now have a ton of "googling" to do. Wilmington does indeed seem nice. And, I had never really thought about Charleston before. So much to learn about...

Cheers!


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## Andrew65 (Dec 21, 2009)

Sherwood, 
Take it from a guy that lived out of a backpack traveling to all 4 corners of the USA for 6 years and lived out of 5 different cars to do it. I then bought a stupid cheap Coronado 25 and lived in it for 2 years in Saint Pete Beach marina before sailing western Florida for 1 year working the tourist seasons. Incidentally, I entered and left each state with around 100 dollars in my pocket. 

It's doable if you have the balls to do it. You live frugally. This is a good skill. You'll be needing that. 

You have two options that I can see because I've been there, done that. 

Option 1, If you line up a job beforehand like Minnewaska suggests, you're actually running a dangerous game because you haven't both bought the boat and don't have a place for it. With your skills, you'll find something , so I wouldn't advise it. I understand his idea, but don't agree.
Option 2 is to pack your truck and your 17K (which by the way is a small fortune) and head southeast, but not before a lot of research. It needn't be a year of it. Just a good solid idea of what lies ahead with the realization that it will be a running plan subject to change. Check out noonsite.com. Start from Va. to Georgia. Why not check out the panhandle too? Personally, I'd check out Georgia because of the winters. Flexibility is paramount. Research live aboard marinas and boats that fall in line with your wishes for it or like the other posters suggest, basically one that doesn't drag you down financially, but frees you enough to move where you might need to move it. Buying the boat and needing to take it to a live aboard marina might be in two different states. That is where your previous research comes into play. After buying your boat, you'll figure it out. Where will your marina be you wonder? You'll figure it out. Where will I work? What will I do? You'll figure it out. Remember your skills. Flexibility is your watch word when you walk out your front door. Quite frankly, having been in your shoes with a whole lot less, THAT step - walking out your front door- is the hardest one of all. 

I'm glad to read you've read no naysayers, but you'll come acrossed them. Ignore them. I don't regret a single day of my on the road days 23 years ago. They are strong memories for me. I am now live aboard in Norway and am dealing with what cold is, not the piddly spring chill of early posted whining, sorry guys.

Make your moves count and I wish you all the best ones, so, yes, Sherwood, it is possible if you got the balls to do it.

Good Luck,

Andrew


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

Thanks Andrew,
I like option 2.  There's a part of me that wants to find a boat that is structurally in tact but needs some bright work or what not. Things seem to feel more your own when you can look around and see the work you've done. Of course I'd also like to save $$$ and not necessarily find a job in the first month. Hopefully I'll have a little to time to explore wherever I end up. And yes, flexibility. I'll let the wind blow me where it may.


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## Andrew65 (Dec 21, 2009)

Sounds like the beginning of a plan. My advice is general because your idea at this stage has to stay flexible, subject to change within the plan. Like I said, look for a boat that suits YOU and what you want out of it. Sailnet is great source of information for
the whole process. Boats are a compromise. There are no boats that are perfect in all aspects of it.
Your frugality will be handy, but just don't go where the winds blow you, after you achieve, set a new goal. Maybe the Bahamas after a bit. Enjoy it while you can. 

Last advice from me would be to beware of Suzie Q swinging her tight little bottom your way. They'll screw it all up for you quicker than you can imagine.


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## Bill-Rangatira (Dec 17, 2006)

please document and share your progress .... there are many on this group looking at similar situations and it will help to see someone who has done it


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

I will do my best White.
And Andrew, I know I know, the last thing I want right now is to fall in love. Lol, that would suck up my money and squish my soul. It's happened to better men than me.


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## Shinook (Jul 13, 2012)

Charleston is a wonderful town, I've spent years there, but, fair warning, the job market there can be difficult. It definitely depends on what you want to do, but for a lot of fields, finding a place to work can be a challenge. 

I'd also warn you that it gets a lot colder there than you would expect and the summers are brutal. I wouldn't expect snow, but the temperatures are deceiving in the winter. In summer, it's very humid and fairly hot, but manageable.

My last warning is that, if you do move there, you'll never want to leave  It really is a great place to leave, you meet all sorts of interesting folks, and downtown is really accessible. It has changed a lot in recent years and become a little bit more upscale, but that's not a bad thing if you consider how bad some areas used to be. The people are real friendly, there is a lot to see and do, and it's a place that a lot of people want to visit.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Sherwood, you do not have much to lose. Go ahead and live your dream. Two great spots I personally know well are New Bern and Wilmington, both in NC. In that order. Wilmington is more crowded, more expensive, but easier to find a job. New Bern has a lot of charm and is much cheaper to keep the boat. I would first get a boat in that area (lots of them available), then look for a job. Yes, winter can be a bit of a problem but if you have a cabin heater it is not bad at all. Best of luck to you.


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

Thanks Kriss and Shinook and the rest.
I'm sure u guys aren't familiar with McCall Idaho. When I say I want someplace warm I mean someplace warm in comparison to where I'm at now. currently the temp is 38 F at 7:45 AM. I live at a little over 5,000 feet in elevation. There are few if any homes here for less that $180K and that's the price for something a little more than a shack. For the last five years I've rented a caboose with a tower built on that has the bathroom on the first floor and a bedroom above that. (A screaming good deal for here) The actual caboose is the kitchen and living room for $500 month at the end of a dead end road outside of town. (perfect for a dog). A loaf of bread here is about $6.00. I made a lasagna last week that cost me $40. We have a population of 2,500 during the week which jumps up to around 10,000 on most summer weekends. We have a handful of billionaires with summer homes and more mega millionaires than u can shake a stick at that have summer vacation homes (estates) on the lake which sit empty most of the year. My snowplow bill can sometimes be as much as my rent per month if the winter is a hard one. Our winter lasts from October to May with snow still falling sometimes in June. My slip on Payette lake for my Columbia 23 ran $1700 for the season which lasts from mid June to Oct 1st.. So, warmth and cost of living is relative to this. And, we have no single women here to boot. But, it is extremely beautiful here and the kayaking and skiing can't be beat. Old joke- How do you leave McCall with a million bucks? Come with two million. I hope this all doesn't come across as defensive I just want you guys to know my perspective when I say I want someplace warm or with a decent job market etc. In short- tourists and a little cold don't scare me to much.
I'm off to a long day of work but it makes it easier knowing my efforts should be rewarded with beautiful sailing, cold beers, new places to explore and bikini clad women.
And yes, when I can I'll look into New Bern as well.
Cheers!


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Sherwood71 said:


> I'd like some honest opinions from you experienced sailors and livers of life.
> 
> ... Am I crazy? Do I need ALOT more money?
> 
> Thank you in advance for your time and wisdom


No one can answer your question without knowing what your goals are. You tell us what you want to to do, but not the reason or the ends toward which these actions are directed.

I advise you to meet with a career counselor to determine the best direction and locale for your vocation/employment. Your choice of vocation/employment is important because that will support you and your family/significant others/relationships for the rest of your life. The Highlands Ability Battery is a good test to determine your natural strengths.

I really cannot understand why any one chooses to be a liveaboard. A sailboat is not a particularly comfortable residence. A marina or urban anchorage is not a particularly convenient or pleasant environment. Very few sailboats, if any, are designed to be a permanent residence. Whatever enjoyment to be derived from living aboard can be obtained on an occasional basis, while you enjoy a comfortable and productive life ashore. It might be fun to spend a weekend or a week aboard a boat for a change of pace, but the appeal of being restricted to that lifestyle would be short lived and very limited.

You might also notice that very few liveaboards actually go out sailing. Once you are tied up with your electrical and plumbing hookups, your microwave and your widescreen and your other crap stuffed below decks, and your a/c unit, bicycles and kayaks on deck, you are likely to remain tied up.

For most of us, sailing is not a very high priority. It is merely a past time, hobby, activity, or sport, lower in priority than job, family, and other varied interests. You really should try to put it into its proper perspective. There are lots of fun activities available besides sailing. Don't become a BOAT BUM, there are much better and more meaningful pursuits in life.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Sherwood71 said:


> In short- tourists and a little cold don't scare me to much.


All I can tell you is that you will love New Bern. And sailing on the Neusse River is always fun. There are tons of boats for sale in this area. Just make sure you get a boat with shallower draft, 5 feet at the most, or you will be running aground much too often.
Here is a New Bern paper website for some ideas about this place: Sun Journal


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

Sherwood,
Over my years I have noticed the decline in craftsmanship. In fact it has become crapmanship too many times. When I do find highly skilled craftsmen (women) I see that they are well paid for their work and have schedules filled long in advance. A skilled boat craftsman could easily do the same in a large boating community.
So, here's a strategy. Find a marina, get a boat that meets your and their requirements and then start a very visible project on your boat that will sell your skills to everyone around. Also, the bartender license is a good idea.
And have fun all the while.
John


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

Sherwood, just in case you’re wondering how it works around here - We old timers have a random number generator. If it is an even number, we “dump” on you. We’re neutral if it is an odd number and helpful if it is a prime number.  The most important question is: Are you a Vandal? The sad thing is there are not too many well-paying jobs in Idaho. I practically doubled my starting salary by leaving Idaho and moving to California. My only commiseration about McCall is at least you’re not living at Hayden Lake. Seventeen thousand is not a lot of money when it comes to boats. It will put you more into the “bottom-feeding’ side of the spectrum and the boats will tend to need a certain amount of fixing and not set up for living aboard. Anchoring out and living off the grid is a quaint notion and marinas are a bit expensive on a barista’s salary. The odds are long and not in your favor, but not totally impossible (I’ve met Ronnie Simpson). So good luck and keep posting. Go Vandals!


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

31 ft boat $2.5k has a Yanmar Diesel [ huge plus ] so plenty left for sails etc. 1970 31' C&C Corvette sailboat

Liveabaoard marina here $300 a month Boat Slip, Boat Slip Rentals, Dry Stack Boat Storage, Wet Slips, The Julington Creek Marina, Jacksonville, Florida


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I bet it easier to get a job in the area first and then get/move a boa, than the other way.


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## Tenoch (Sep 28, 2012)

jameswilson29 said:


> I really cannot understand why any one chooses to be a liveaboard. A sailboat is not a particularly comfortable residence. A marina or urban anchorage is not a particularly convenient or pleasant environment. It might be fun to spend a weekend or a week aboard a boat for a change of pace, but the appeal of being restricted to that lifestyle would be short lived and very limited.
> 
> You might also notice that very few liveaboards actually go out sailing. Once you are tied up with your electrical and plumbing hookups, your microwave and your widescreen and your other crap stuffed below decks, and your a/c unit, bicycles and kayaks on deck, you are likely to remain tied up.
> Don't become a BOAT BUM, there are much better and more meaningful pursuits in life.


I've lived aboard my 27 ft. sailboat for three years now, through the heat of summer, and the cold and rain of winter. I have no microwave or big screen TV. I have no "plumbing" hookups and can leave the dock to go sailing in about 10 minutes...and I sail a lot. I would not change a thing. If I am a boat bum, so be it. It seriously kicks ass.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Tenoch you're living in a sailors paradise ,bum ,bottom feeder or marina queen. This guy is planning on moving east to where it's at.Where people live the american dream and strive for more along with the minions of others in the fast lane . He sounds like a winner and when he's 70 will probably have more toys than you or I. Now that's meaning full.


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## Andrew65 (Dec 21, 2009)

jameswilson29 said:


> No one can answer your question without knowing what your goals are. You tell us what you want to to do, but not the reason or the ends toward which these actions are directed.
> 
> I advise you to meet with a career counselor to determine the best direction and locale for your vocation/employment. Your choice of vocation/employment is important because that will support you and your family/significant others/relationships for the rest of your life. The Highlands Ability Battery is a good test to determine your natural strengths.
> 
> ...


Eah...James, go get a life, we liveaboards certainly have one.

Don't knock it into you try it.


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## Andrew65 (Dec 21, 2009)

GeorgeB said:


> Sherwood, just in case you're wondering how it works around here - We old timers have a random number generator. If it is an even number, we "dump" on you. We're neutral if it is an odd number and helpful if it is a prime number.  The most important question is: Are you a Vandal? The sad thing is there are not too many well-paying jobs in Idaho. I practically doubled my starting salary by leaving Idaho and moving to California. My only commiseration about McCall is at least you're not living at Hayden Lake. Seventeen thousand is not a lot of money when it comes to boats. It will put you more into the "bottom-feeding' side of the spectrum and the boats will tend to need a certain amount of fixing and not set up for living aboard. Anchoring out and living off the grid is a quaint notion and marinas are a bit expensive on a barista's salary. The odds are long and not in your favor, but not totally impossible (I've met Ronnie Simpson). Sokeep posting. Go Vandals!


Where there is a will, there is a way. I live onboard hanging on a bouy and am outfitting year round in Norway. Better to bottom feed a bit, than to look back and live with regret.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Just a warning if you haven't purchased a sailboat before:

Make sure you've budgeted enough money not just for the boat, but for all the expenses with buying a boat. If you want to be sure you aren't buying an endless money pit, you'll likely want a survey on the boat before you buy it ($600-$800). You might pay for more than one survey before you buy. Unlike rent, marina fees often have to be paid up front for the whole year ($2000-$4000). In most states, you'll pay sales tax when you register the boat (several hundred dollars, depends on purchase price). If you really sail, you'll want tow insurance too (about $200). Then there's all the stuff you'll want that the previous owner didn't leave (infinite, with wants outstripping means at every budget).

Regarding your liveaboard choices - if you want to work in DC I would look closely at the Gangplank Marina downtown, which at the time of this article was the largest liveaboard community on the east coast:

Unique Spaces: The Live-Aboards of Gangplank Marina


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

Jameswilson, sorry to mock you but you sound like my sister asking me for a five year plan.

GeorgeB, sorry but I'm a Hawkeye fan being originally from Iowa. But, I do love when BSU loses.
and-
I'm use to being a "bottom feeder" for my first ten years in Idaho I focused on very little but kayaking. Kayaking came first followed by women and good times with career and money tied for third. I've never intended to get rich in this life. I'm a bit of a hippy at heart. I don't like a lot of possessions or people that tell other people how to live(as long as they aren't encroaching on anyone else's pursuit of happiness) and ostriches. I hate ostriches. If I had a choice of staying in a hotel or camping on a beach I would pick the beach every time.

Thumbs up CCrider, great name!!!

And emcentar, ty. I was wondering about getting a survey and survey prices...

At first glance New Bern seems like a great place. Not to big, not to small. It's now at number one on my list followed by Wilmington, Charleston and maybe St. Augustine.

And Andrew, thanks for having a little fun with James. He's def not the life of the party!


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## Argyle38 (Oct 28, 2010)

What's your opinion on Emu's?


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

Sherwood - you're definitely not crazy. My wife and I moved from Denver to Orlando in 1994 with less than $2k to our names. We looked at boats but ended up renting an apartment instead......kind of wish I could do that all over again!

I'd recommend you include Titusville, Merritt Island, Cocoa, and Fort Pierce on the Florida east coast in your search for a place to live. Lots of boats there to choose from, lots of marinas with fairly cheap dockage rates, good sailing grounds, along with a pretty good economy and a wide range of potential jobs. I kept my boat in Merritt Island for a few years at Harbortown marina, and there were several small boat / affordable lifestyle folks there enjoying the liveaboard life.

$17k will get you started......but you've got to be ready to put in some work to take a bargain boat and turn it into a comfortable long-term cruiser. Just need to start with a boat that has good bones to build from.....a couple of these are on the gulf side, but here are a few examples from a quick Yachtworld search:

I have an affection for the Endeavours.....solid boats and I bet you could get this one for much less than $10k
1979 Endeavour Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

This looks like a Smacktacular deal...
1985 Hunter 31 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

And in the homely but stout and well-kept category....
1971 Westerly 31 Longbow Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Go for it. Enjoy the search.


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

At the moment I'm impartial to Emu's as I've never met one.

Thank you Bidgo for the boat suggestions. I'd like to go a bit cheaper though. Yes, I know I may have to settle for something a little smaller than 30'. I spend a lot of free time scouring Craigslist for boats even though I won't be ready to leave/buy for a while it's a good learning experience.

Some of you have asked me to document my experience a little bit as I go. I guess this is a good place to start. Here's my typical Monday saving for a boat.

Up at 6 a.m. feed and walk my old dog while slamming large amounts of coffee. At the newspaper office by 8 a.m. Editing and writing cut lines for my week (we're a weekly) of pix until 11:30 a.m. grab some lunch at the grocery deli. At the boat shop removing the bottom planks off a '61 Chris Craft until 4 p.m. Get home at 4:30 feed the dog feed myself shower and walk the dog. Leave the house at 6:45 to photograph high school volleyball games. Take those pix to the newspaper office and edit etc and I'm back home by 8:30 p.m. to chill. Total pay in a day like today $216. 
Working as much as I can at the boat shop in between my photo photo shoots keeps me averaging close to $1,100/week working the two jobs. I try as hard as I can to get 25 hours a week at the boat shop at a measly $12/hour which goes straight into the sailboat fund at $1,000 a month after taxes. I've been doing this close to a year now and I'm around $12k. Another five months and I should be around $17K. My photo work dies off every year in March for a few months so I figure that will be a good time to leave. Also, I'm pretty sure my old dog will reach the end of his road sometime this winter. Hope that wasn't to long and boring but that's what I'm doing to prepare for this odyssey I'm determined to embark on.

Peace out,
I need some rest. lol


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## Andrew65 (Dec 21, 2009)

jameswilson29 said:


> No one can answer your question without knowing what your goals are. You tell us what you want to to do, but not the reason or the ends toward which these actions are directed.
> 
> I advise you to meet with a career counselor to determine the best direction and locale for your vocation/employment. Your choice of vocation/employment is important because that will support you and your family/significant others/relationships for the rest of your life. The Highlands Ability Battery is a good test to determine your natural strengths.
> 
> ...


James, I'm curious about your use of the words "BOAT BUM". Would you mind expanding on your definition of it? For example , there are others here who have used the words "bottom feeder". Would you characterize us as that too??

All perspectives would help give Sherwood a better picture of what he's getting into on his mad escapade.

Andrew


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## kjango (Apr 18, 2008)

I liked the part where you spoke of reducing possessions til they fit in your car . Exactly how I started 6 years ago . When everything I owned fit in my Ford Explorer , I set out on the vacation I'm still on......lol


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Good article here http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance-articles/34617-confessions-bottom-feeder.html


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Your plan sounds viable. The fact that you have almost no debt opens up a lot of possibilities. A boat in your price range is doable but remember that boats, like houses, have upkeep costs, nowhere near what a house costs but substantial. There are many variables to consider: what kind of work will you need to do will dictate location, your skills at fixing things yourself will drastically affect boat expenses, your need for spending money on entertainment and such. I'd say work up a realistic budget, look for work, and then look for a boat. Also, consider seriously if you can live on a boat for an extended period of time. Living ashore, everything is convenient. On a boat, this is not so unless you can afford prime dockage in a very expensive craft. This is probably WAY out of your price range now.


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

jameswilson29 said:


> No one can answer your question without knowing what your goals are. You tell us what you want to to do, but not the reason or the ends toward which these actions are directed.
> 
> I advise you to meet with a career counselor to determine the best direction and locale for your vocation/employment. Your choice of vocation/employment is important because that will support you and your family/significant others/relationships for the rest of your life. The Highlands Ability Battery is a good test to determine your natural strengths.
> 
> ...


James, I think you have brought up some very good points which is what the OP is looking for. The reality of living on a boat is not always like the dream.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

jameswilson29 said:


> ...
> 
> I really cannot understand why any one chooses to be a liveaboard. A sailboat is not a particularly comfortable residence. A marina or urban anchorage is not a particularly convenient or pleasant environment. Very few sailboats, if any, are designed to be a permanent residence. Whatever enjoyment to be derived from living aboard can be obtained on an occasional basis, while you enjoy a comfortable and productive life ashore. It might be fun to spend a weekend or a week aboard a boat for a change of pace, but the appeal of being restricted to that lifestyle would be short lived and very limited.
> 
> ...


To the OP, you have been given lots to think about and been given useful (and other) advice. Think about it and do what makes sense, for you.


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## drosymor (Aug 6, 2014)

Sherwood, I admire your ambitions. I know you have spoken of the East coast but have you considered the Texas Gulf. I have a boat in the Clear Lake area, near Houston. I am retired now so I don't need to worry about working but I understand that there is plenty of work around the Houston area. Clear Lake has (almost) the largest sailing community in the US and lots of boats for sale. I am sure you could find one here very easily. With such a large boating community, you could probably fund you desired lifestyle on woodworking alone (yards charge $85/hr.). By the way, my slip is $380 a month for a 43 ft. boat, including sprits.

Good luck with your plans.

Paul


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

[B[/B]


killarney_sailor said:


> Not being too judgemental here are you? You have decided what sailing means to you - something you do on days when you don't have a golf game set up. This most certainly does not give you the right to dictate how the rest of the world views sailing. I think the people here are grownups. *They don't need your, or my, advice about how to live a proper life*...


Perhaps, you did not read the original post where he asked everyone for advice???

:laugher:laugher:laugher


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Actually, the OP asked if they were crazy or needed a lot more money. Hard to argue that either are affirmative.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> Actually, the OP asked if they were crazy or needed a lot more money. Hard to argue that either are affirmative.


So you think he wants a clinical diagnosis, not a review of his life plans, extremely limited though they may be?

No, he wants to know what everyone thinks of his plan, which is a bad sign in and of itself. Justly lacking in self-confidence, he seeks the advice of strangers for important life decisions.

Some of you seem to forget these OPs are posting on an internet forum and should expect a range of diverse opinions. Not all of us will agree with every dopey plan just because it involves a sailboat.

And another thing: some of you seem to believe an internet forum is solely about the exchange of factual information. Have you ever heard of an ulterior motive?

Almost everyone acts to fulfill some psychological need. Some of these idiots want reaffirmation or approval of their foolish plans. I, for one, will not be providing it. Probably, at some deep subconscious level, they know their plans are idiotic, hence, their need to get public approval.

They don't need approval; what they need is a good smack upside the head to knock some common sense into them. The rest of you can kiss their arses, I will continue to serve the cold truth to them.


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## Andrew65 (Dec 21, 2009)

I will continue to serve the cold truth to them.[/QUOTE]

...as you perceive it.


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

TY Joe. I have been considering TX as well.


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

James, I do thank you for your perspective.
If I didn't have confidence in this plan I wouldn't have been working so much to save for the last year. But, due to my current location I have very few people with real sailing and liveaboard experience to get a little affirmation from that what I want to do is feasible and realistic. Almost everyone in Idaho thinks I'm a little nuts for wanting to go live on a boat. But, they don't know what I'm talking 'bout. Everyone on here at least has a bit of an informed opinion and I value that.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Hey Sherwood


Just another perspective here - sailing is a malady. if it inflicts you bad enough then one way or another you will just go. If you stand on the shore of a large body of water and look out at the wind and waves and you start to feel all jittery and feverish,heart thumping and all - then you are probably infected. Otherwise, sailing is just one way to spend down your trust fund before you are forced to go live on a relatives couch.  Sometimes I don't even enjoy it, or I enjoy so little that it makes no sense to do it - but I can't help myself. The next day I am back at the dock, untying the lines and hoisting the sails. Other days its pure magic and I love every minute. Either way, I have to go. 

Doesn't have to be live aboard or circumnavigation to get your fix. Could be a sunfish on a river or lake. Same thing. 

Is that what motivates you? Or maybe you are at that restless age when picking up and moving seems like a great romantic thing. Remember the old saying - "Wherever you go, there you are." holds true. We create the same problems in our new place. Mainly money problems to be truthful. It seems like for most people there are two things which determine where and how they live; family ( loosely defined as the people in your life including your girlfriend, parents, ect..) and economics - or for us 99% your job. Family and job. Then malady comes in , if you have it. You will find out that putting the sailing addiction together with the other two essentials is a delicate and tricky thing. 

Anyway, I wish you the best. Living on a sailboat seems like a cool thing to do for a while when you are very young. You might get some cool stories to tell some day. I lived in Manhattan for a short time when I was in my 20's. Crazy , but I still tell people about it. 

But if you are a natural born sailor who just can't stay off the water - and is always looking at the trees and waves to see if there is wind today, walking along the docks scheming about how to get out there - my sympathy to you. It's not easy being green.


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

Sal, I can't say that I'm a natural born sailor but the first time I sailed 3 years ago my imagination ran wild with the thought of making a long passage and exploring distant lands. Ever since that first day my desire has grown stronger each time I sail. Now that my dog is getting to the age where I can see his inevitable passing I can start doing something about these desires.
For the last 14 years I have been passionate about getting on wild rivers. I went from having never kayaked white water to running true class V man killing rapids in wilderness areas with nothing but my "team" around me in case things went bad and sometimes they did. In a way I see that sailing can be a HUGE river trip that is not bound by the banks of a river but instead has almost limitless possibilities. If that's the case I say "sign me up, I wanna go!!!".


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

Check out Bellingham Washington and the nearby marinas/communities. You sound like you'd fit in a lot better there, than some of the cities on the East Coast being recommended to you.

Inarguably some of the best sailing grounds in the country with endless destinations to explore, year round sailing, you can live aboard year round, and there is a cool laid back feeling to the place with tons of other stuff to do (hiking, skiing, camping incomparable to almost anywhere in the country). I lived there for 3 years, met my wife there, and we go back at least annually to visit. Cities in the Carolinas, and then Florida, are at the complete opposite end of the spectrum.


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## Tenoch (Sep 28, 2012)

jameswilson29 said:


> So you think he wants a clinical diagnosis, not a review of his life plans, extremely limited though they may be?
> 
> Justly lacking in self-confidence, he seeks the advice of strangers for important life decisions.
> 
> ...


Some other idiots with dopey plans: Lin and Larry Parday, Webb Chiles, Bernard Moitessier, Joshua Slocum, Jean Gau, Harry Pidgeon, Tanya Aebi, Susan and Eric Hiscock, John Neal, Pat Henry, James Baldwin, Donna Lange, (and an endless list of current and past cruisers)...

Smart guys who know better: James Wilson


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## zedboy (Jul 14, 2010)

jameswilson29 said:


> Some of these idiots want reaffirmation or approval of their foolish plans. I, for one, will not be providing it. Probably, at some deep subconscious level, they know their plans are idiotic, hence, their need to get public approval.


If he showed up saying, "I have $17k and no experience, I want to buy a boat and sail around the world," the majority would be saying, "That's a bad idea." They would be spot on.

Sherwood just said, "I have $17k and no experience, I want to buy a boat, pick somewhere warm, and live on it." Unlike sailing around the world, it takes little skill to keep your boat tied up, and only a moderate amount of patience and intelligence to parlay basic sailing knowledge into general competence.

If he gets a survey (or even just carefully reads the boat-inspection thread) he's likely not to buy a lemon. If it ends up being a lemon, or he ends up hating it, he's only out $10-15k and he gets a growth experience.

Unlike the middle of the Pacific, sailboats tied up to slips are reasonably safe.

So while it's fair to point out that boats are cramped, damp, smelly, too cold, too hot, and generally a pain, if Sherwood has a yen to live on a boat, why tell him he's a fool?


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

TY Zed,
I should point out that I not only want to liveaboard but I also want to do a lot of sailing. Not long trips at first, maybe just some gunkholing or getting out for evening sails after work until I feel my skills, knowledge and budget will allow me to go further. And possibly start working toward my captains license so I can take guests out on a charter boat.

Ty Tenoch,
Some of those names are familiar.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

A recent college grad implies the OP is fairly young. If someone young has an itch, that includes working, I can't see any reason not to scratch it. Plenty of time to learn if one's dreams will stick. Some of mine did, some did not. If 40, I might suggest the OP be more careful.


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

I don't think I mentioned that I was a recent college grad? Just that I have a BA. I did mention that I've been a photojournalist for the last 14 years. So, that would put me in my mid to late 30's which is accurate. Yes, some may call me a bum? I live to experience all that I want to experience. I've had a few chances to get married and have kids and live the "American Dream" but I just don't want that for more than a million reasons I won't mention here. And, yes, I do have a bit of a safety net if I sink my ship or can't find a job or what not. Although that's a road I'd rather not travel. Just wanted to clear that up.


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## scratchee (Mar 2, 2012)

One thing I like about the OP's basic plan is that there wasn't an underlying assumption that it would be easy or cheap. That usually raises a red flag for me, in sailing or any other endeavor. 

On the other hand, the ability to maintain a work schedule like that while building a cash reserve is a good indicator of future success in any endeavor.

I say give it a shot.


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## mr_f (Oct 29, 2011)

jameswilson29 said:


> And another thing: some of you seem to believe an internet forum is solely about the exchange of factual information. Have you ever heard of an ulterior motive?
> 
> Almost everyone acts to fulfill some psychological need.


It is nice to see someone capable of admitting they have a problem. I commend you. Perhaps if you expounded on your ulterior motive and the psychological need you are fulfilling, it would help you get over the problem.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Sherwood71 said:


> I don't think I mentioned that I was a recent college grad? Just that I have a BA. I did mention that I've been a photojournalist for the last 14 years. So, that would put me in my mid to late 30's which is accurate. Yes, some may call me a bum? I live to experience all that I want to experience. I've had a few chances to get married and have kids and live the "American Dream" but I just don't want that for more than a million reasons I won't mention here. And, yes, I do have a bit of a safety net if I sink my ship or can't find a job or what not. Although that's a road I'd rather not travel. Just wanted to clear that up.


You'll find it a common phenom for internet advice, people make up what they think they read! 

Of course, you did not say you were a recent college grad, sorry about that. The student debt, college degree, etc, lead me to the wrong assumption. However, I did note the 14 years of experience and wasn't sure you were in your young 20s. However, some kids will puff their experience to include working at the high school newspaper. 

In any case, my advice above stands. Find the job first. Your plan is reasonable and worth a shot, if it feels right to you. This is the only thing I know for sure. Since you haven't lived aboard, it will not be whatever you imagine. May be better, may be worse. The only way you'll know if it is good for you is to find out.


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

Ty Minn and everyone else that has replied to this thread, even James.
You have all given me a lot to consider and digest as I plan things out. As for now this post seems to be winding down. Lol, kind of a relief. Keeping up on responses for a while was almost like another part time job.
Again, thank you. I had a feeling the sailing community would be a pretty good group of people. I'm sure I'll be trolling around here and chiming in now and then. In a month or so I'll post a status report.
Peace out all!


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

That's what I did, but with slightly more sailing experience. Why not go to California? Save the money on gas, Payette to San Francisco isn't too far, there are alot of boats, great weather and semi-protected and always windy bay sailing to learn on. I can't see why you would go to the east coast when you are this close to California.


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

I know the Pacific is very very big to say the least but is nobody concerned about the radiation from Fukushima? Maybe I'm misinformed or paranoid? But, I wanna be able to eat the fish I catch. I'm probably opening a can of worms by mentioning Fukushima but the last I heard it's still out of control and releasing 300 tons of radioactive water into the ocean every day.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

joethecobbler said:


> these types of threads always come down to two groups, one being the go for it group comprised of those who have gone for it, a few that would of gone for it,a couple that are gonna go for it.and this group doesn't judge they encourage, offer warning of pitfalls and cheer you on.
> I like that group, mostly.
> The other group is the " can't be done" group.
> the can't be done group often consists of the "safer" folks. they are often successful, homeowners, professionals.very cautious, and live a "charted" life path.working hard towards retirement, saving, very predictable. many in the can't be done group may have excellent boats, even sailing them on there planned vacations. mostly the better heeled ones. this group seems to get offended at the idea of just taking off without a defined long term plan. they typically urge buying insurance and tow services and such.
> ...


This sums it up better than I could ever say it. Absolutely the way I see it. You'll be fine, Japan is really far away. The West Coast is so much better than the East Coast it's not even funny. How you could seriously consider places like Houston(talk about pollution) or these half ghetto cities between south carolina and maryland is crazy. Charleston is like New Orleans. It looks good in the couple of quaint pictures of the same thing over and over from different angles, but they are both seriously scary. Most of the east coast is scary.

If you don't mind bad weather, then places in Washington are good, like Bellingham mentioned above. Port Townsend if you want to work on wooden boats. There's a big school for that there too. But for weather and sailing the Bay Area can't be beat. The marinas aren't that expensive either. The job market is good, I think, it's expensive on land, so don't live on land.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Sherwood71;2202841 Maybe I'm misinformed or paranoid? [/QUOTE said:


> This is thread drift, but I think you are right.


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## AKA44 (Nov 11, 2011)

Sherwood, you're on a good tack - requesting input through a portal like this - and you're getting a good variety of it. Here's mine. 

Avoid locating yourself in some out-of-the-way, backwater nook you can afford. A place like New Bern is nice but you're already experiencing life out in the woods - try something different. At your age, I think you should target a faster pace, more opportunity, and broader vision. Consider a place like Hilton Head with its luxo marinas filled with beautiful yachts and interesting people. To start, use your good references, skills, and earnestness to find a job boat sitting someone else's boat, maybe for only a few months while the owners are away but don't want to leave their $M+ investment unattended. Now, you're in a nice place, on a nice boat, and in the right neighborhood to poke around and meet people who may guide you to the next 'thing'. You may decide to continue boat sitting while obtaining your captain's license and crewing on Race Wednesdays for more experience. You may discover how much money there is in applying varnish to marine teak. You may launch with someone you meet there who's passing through and cruising to places you'd like to see and needs crew. Or, while you're knocking around the marina in your board shorts, you may meet some lovely trust fund baby, fall in love, and write a novel about 'Goethe on the Beach' while saving your cash for the boat you really want. 

Point is, consider alternate paths. There's a lot of diverse opportunity out there for an honest, young soul with a degree, talents, and no encumbrances. Just beware of wolves.


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## Andrew65 (Dec 21, 2009)

..and beware of NOB advice. He ain't particularly right in the head.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Andrew65 said:


> ..and beware of NOB advice. He ain't particularly right in the head.


What?! Why? You don't even know me. If anything, I am in a good place to give him great advice because I am doing what he wants to do. I even used to kayak. My first summer in the San Juan's was in a sea kayak but what I really wanted to do was sail.

And you tank him for that post? I'm done.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Tenoch said:


> Some other idiots with dopey plans: Lin and Larry Parday, Webb Chiles, Bernard Moitessier, Joshua Slocum, Jean Gau, Harry Pidgeon, Tanya Aebi, Susan and Eric Hiscock, John Neal, Pat Henry, James Baldwin, Donna Lange, (and an endless list of current and past cruisers)...


And they went on a forum for advice from strangers?

This guy is planning to be a liveaboard. You are confusing *true sailors* with* liveaboards*.

True sailors are out there cruising and sailing. They sleep on a boat because it is necessary part of a journey somewhere.

Liveaboards are tied up at the marina, hooked up to the electrical system and waterlines, with microwave ovens, flat screen TVs and a/c units. Sleeping on the boat is their goal; they aren't going anywhere. From my observation, the vast majority of liveaboards don't even sail as much as the average weekend sailor. Maybe twice a year they untie the lines and motor up or down the ICW to their other seasonal home. They might talk the talk, but they ain't walking the walk.

We are not talking about an adventure here. We are talking about dropping out, rent dodging, and living in a marina.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Sherwood71 said:


> ....I'd like to buy a 30 foot boat from the 70's to live aboard and use for coastal sailing.......





Sherwood71 said:


> .....Learning to sail and sail safely is my number one priority. I've become obsessed with sailing over the last three years......


James, your caution should be that many live aboards overload their boats or don't keep them in condition to go sailing at a moments notice, so they keep putting it off. Next thing you know, you live on a floating storage container.

However, that is explicitly not the OPs intention. Not all liveaboards fall in the above trap, several on this board are living exceptions to your rule.

There is a thread by a poster that is looking for a roommate and never plans to leave the dock. I have no idea why people like that bother with a sailboat. Get a houseboat or just live on land.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Well, the proof is in the pudding. Walk down any dock in any marina to see what becomes of that dream of sailing or cruising. That is the irony of these threads. Even the weekend liveaboard/second home on the water, large boat-show sailboat types usually remain tied up in the marina.

I suspect many of the liveaboards anticipate a life of sailing when they move aboard. Then reality intrudes. The boat that is comfortable for living aboard is not that boat that goes out sailing (or even motoring) very often. What starts out as a professed love of sailing becomes a toleration of life aboard a vessel poorly suited to be a residence in an environment that is less than convenient and comfortable. Many of these liveaboards are salty types - they have a love of all things marine, but they don't really experience the pure joy and freedom of sailing that they originally sought.

I agree, most of these folks should just buy a trawler or a houseboat and keep a small dinghy or boardboat for sailing. Or rent an apartment in a sailing town like Annapolis, Charleston or Newport. They would do a lot more sailing.

Comparing a liveaboard to some of the great sailing explorers and adventurers is rather a joke.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

northoceanbeach said:


> The West Coast is so much better than the East Coast it's not even funny.


Well, except for the sailing, and cruising... 

CRUISING CALIFORNIA would have to be one of the briefest cruising guides ever written. On other place in America has so many miles of coastline, and yet so few real cruising opportunities...



northoceanbeach said:


> Most of the east coast is scary.


You obviously have not seen "most of the East coast"... 

FWIW, I really like Sherwood's approach to this, seems very level-headed and reasonable... I'll happily place my bet on his turning out to be one of the Success Stories around here...

Good luck, and keep us posted...


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## Andrew65 (Dec 21, 2009)

northoceanbeach said:


> What?! Why? You don't even know me. If anything, I am in a good place to give him great advice because I am doing what he wants to do. I even used to kayak. My first summer in the San Juan's was in a sea kayak but what I really wanted to do was sail.
> 
> And you tank him for that post? I'm done.


I don't need to know you. I said what I said because you're trashing the east coast. There are a lot of people doing what he wants to do. The east coast has much more to offer him.

It was funny though when you , from California, called east coast people crazy. California is the breeding grounds for crazy.


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

Don't mean to bash on you NOB but sea kayaking and white water kayaking are completely different worlds. Also, I want warmth not the drizzly chilly weather of the northwest. And California been there, meh. 

And James, all I can say is "I'll prove you wrong in time about this not getting my boat out of the marina thing". But, I do thank you for making me aware of this pitfall.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I know how things are in Idaho, I lived not far from you in Spokane, WA for three years, winters were brutal at times, mild some years, but the first year I lived there I had 100 vertical inches of snow on my front lawn and had to shovel the roof of the house off four times that year to stop it from caving in from the weight of the snow.

Summer was fantastic, the daytime temperature got into the 90s, but the humidity was less than 20 percent most of the time. About the same conditions when I visited friends in nearby Idaho. Beautiful part of the country, but not a place for sailors. Sure, there were some big lakes with big sailboats, but it didn't take more than a day to sail the entire length of the largest lakes.

I'm confident that if you have some marketable skill, you won't have a problem finding a job in Charleston. It's a neat town, I've only been there a couple times, and the only drawback is Charleston Harbor has some nasty tides and wave heights during a normal day. It would NOT be my favorite place to sail. I got beat up pretty good crossing Charleston Harbor on two occasions. 

Good Luck,

Gary


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Well, I was root'n for you until that crack about chilly drizzle.I've heard about winters and storms back east. Just go forth and do your thing. Check in in a few years to boast success.(or not) Most of us will still be here, varnishing the tiller on the day sailer in the drive way.


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## rbrasi (Mar 21, 2011)

MonkeysFist said:


> Sailors, as a whole, are the nicest, most helpful and most willing to help people on earth.


You've never raced, have you?


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

Sherwood71 said:


> And James, all I can say is "I'll prove you wrong in time about this not getting my boat out of the marina thing". But, I do thank you for making me aware of this pitfall.


Well said, but go back and read his complete statement. His recommendation of a house boat with a small sail boat moored astern is a really good idea from several aspects. If you had something like a cape dory typhoon or one of the Olympic class dinghys tied to your aft deck you would sail a lot more often than you will on a live aboard 30 footer. In fact more often than 90% of all sailors. 
A house boat will afford you a place to keep things, like tools, a place to work on projects, etc. in the mean time you are eyeing every potential good deal for a true long distance cruising sailboat. You can pick one when and where you wish and not have time pressures on you. You are realistically - what, five years? - away from long term cruising.
When the weather is good, go sailing. When the weathers bad, work on projects. In time your definition of good weather will expand and bad will contract, that is until you are about 70 years old. Then the equation reverses. Also, with a small simple boat right on the aft deck, you can be sailing in a couple of minutes after getting home from work, about like walking the dog. 
John


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

travlineasy said:


> but the first year I lived there I had 100 vertical inches of snow on my front lawn and had to shovel the roof of the house off four times that year to stop it from caving in from the weight of the snow.
> :


We once had 100 horizontal inches of snow. Does that put us in the same league with Idaho?
John


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## mr_f (Oct 29, 2011)

Sherwood71 said:


> And James, all I can say is "I'll prove you wrong in time about this not getting my boat out of the marina thing". But, I do thank you for making me aware of this pitfall.


I wouldn't give too much thought to Mr. Wilson's nonsense. He has been out to rid the world of the scourge of liveaboards for some time. Maybe he just really is incapable of seeing that different things work for different people. Or perhaps he just wants there to be a group of people out there disliked as much as divorce lawyers. Who knows?

He keeps throwing out things that are so bizarre I don't know what to make of them. My boat has a microwave and and air condition and shore power, etc. Except for unplugging the shore power (as I assume most non-liveaboards have to do), those things don't take any prep to leave the dock. What gave him the impression they did? Earlier he thought if you lived aboard you had to throw away all your shoes.


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## Sherwood71 (Apr 1, 2013)

"Earlier he thought if you lived aboard you had to throw away all your shoes."

Lol, I hope this is true. I hate wearing shoes.


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## mr_f (Oct 29, 2011)

I will offer you this one cautionary tale (which I hope does not put me too far into joethecobbler's 'other' group). This story was posted a couple of months ago on another forum. Struck me as required reading for many of the 'hopes and dreams' crowd.



> I've had the itch to sail and explore for years and it really got to me this year as I began to reflect upon the fact that I had more years behind me than I had ahead of me. The itch became unbearable and in May of this year I cashed in a chunk of my retirement and bought a used Bristol Channel Cutter. It was love at first sight, so much so that I declined getting a survey and bought her as is with the intention of repairing her shortcomings as I sailed. Her rig was sound and she sailed like a dream. She was always the prettiest thing in any anchorage or marina. The fact that her systems for the most part didn't work was something I intended to deal with over the winter layup when I had her hauled and redid her innards and her unusual interior.
> 
> When I inquired about insurance I discovered that a survey was required and since I'd forgone the survey I also decided to forgo the insurance. I assumed that if she was lost, it would be while I was offshore and there would be no pressing need to restore anything for my heirs. I simply assumed I'd go down with her.
> 
> ...


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

mr_f said:


> I will offer you this one cautionary tale (which I hope does not put me too far into joethecobbler's 'other' group). This story was posted a couple of months ago on another forum. Struck me as required reading for many of the 'hopes and dreams' crowd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I'd say the #1 Lesson from that one would be: _Don't 'invest' a significant chunk of your retirement fund in an uninsured boat"..._


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

lol


Andrew65 said:


> I don't need to know you. I said what I said because you're trashing the east coast. There are a lot of people doing what he wants to do. The east coast has much more to offer him.
> 
> It was funny though when you , from California, called east coast people crazy. California is the breeding grounds for crazy.


But you're from Norway, what do you care about the East Coast of the US?

I'm not from California either. It's just my opinion, it seems it's OK for everyone to always trash Cali, but the east coast isn't fair game.

I don't hate the east coast, there are some good places, but I have been all over it, and there is a lot of bad, a lot of really bad places. I know it's popular for cruising but I don't understand why. It's flat for one thing, so you can't see anything, the weather isn't as good, there are named storms. The towns ARE more ghetto often, there is significant post industrial decline, It's really crowded, most people seem to take the ICW instead of the ocean....those would be the cons

I'm sure there are possitives. I've thought about where to sail, I have thought about the east coast, but really just Florida. Maine sounds OK, but only very seasonal.

California kicks ass, I'm not kidding, I really think that people trash it because they are jealous if it. It's great sailing. Name a better place to day sail and race in the entire country than San Francisco.


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## Andrew65 (Dec 21, 2009)

I live in Norway. I'm from the east coast. 

You keep referring to the bay area for your great sailing area. Fair enough. You should hold yourself to that suggestion. The east coast offers more to the OP along the entire coast including the pan handle than just the SF bay. 
The Chesapeake for one is a very good example. 
The ICW offers a lot too connecting the whole eastern seaboard for someone on the move.
Anywhere in the southern half is a jumping off place to the Bahamas and beyond to say the least. 

Like I said, there's more to offer.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

For you there is, for some people there is, doesn't make me not right in the head because I hurt your pride. Not everybody has to like the same things you do.


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## Andrew65 (Dec 21, 2009)

Hurt pride? Not at all. The east coast simply has more to offer the OP.

Sounds more like I struck a chord in you NOB. You being a christian scientist in cali should know all about crazy. Y'all ain't particularly right in the head. Lol.


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Not to worry, NOB, there's lots of strange opinionated characters on board. Funny how the wackos gang up like monkeys on a branch to hurl crap .(results in dirty fingers but appears to be satisfying as so many do it.) Must be finger lick'n good.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Capt Len said:


> Not to worry, NOB, there's lots of strange opinionated characters on board. Funny how the wackos gang up like monkeys on a branch to hurl crap .(results in dirty fingers but appears to be satisfying as so many do it.) Must be finger lick'n good.


Obsessed much with monkey crap?

What exactly are you doing in your free time?:laugher


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Got nothing but spare time lately but when I walked in the jungle I carried a good sling shot. Don't let the monkeys get too close.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

northoceanbeach said:


> California kicks ass, I'm not kidding, I really think that people trash it because they are jealous if it. It's great sailing. Name a better place to day sail and race in the entire country than San Francisco.


For me its Seattle in the winter you can race Saturday afternoon and snow ski that night and pleasure sail again on sunday


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## Capt Len (Oct 9, 2011)

Yeh, Seattle's pretty good but it doesn't rain on the weekends in Victoria .Gott (ski) mittus too.


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