# Retract / Deploy Lazyjacks From Cockpit



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I thought I would move this to a new thread so as not to hijack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *tdw*  
_Also, cos I don't like the lines beating against the sail I bring my topping lift and lazy jack lines forward to the mast once the main is up. Ergo there is not much point in having topping lift brought back to cockpit either._


All my lines come back to the cockpit, much as GaryM described. It makes sailing short / single handed easier.

I don't have lazyjack lines rigged, but I'm considering this for when the boat is back in the water. I would like to be able to be able to retract the lazyjack lines to the mast for the same reason as tdw. Is there a way to run them so I can do this from the cockpit?



PBzeer said:


> CapnHand - since the only time you really need to mess with the lazy jacks underway is to tighten them for dropping the sail, I don't lead mine aft. Loosening them and tying them out of the way you can do while not underway.





tdw said:


> PB is right. (very right in fact but that's another thread, hee hee)
> 
> I doubt that its feasible, at least without an awful lot of trouble.
> 
> ...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I appreciate the answers so far, but they don't provide what I want, or else I don't fully undestand PBzeer's post and tdw's cryptic reference back to it (quite possible).

Has anyone tried something like this? Skipjacks
If so, how well do they work?
Was it 'more trouble than it's worth'? (actually doesn't look like a lot of trouble)
Do you see any way to improve on this design?
Do you know of a different / better way?
Thanks


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

CapnHand said:


> I appreciate the answers so far, but they don't provide what I want, or else I don't fully undestand PBzeer's post and tdw's cryptic reference back to it (quite possible).
> 
> Has anyone tried something like this? Skipjacks
> If so, how well do they work?
> ...


Capn,

Should apologise. My dig at PB is based on his political leanings. Nowt to do with your query. Just me being a smart aleck.

The Skipjack idea seems quite feasible. To be honest I hadn't thought of bringing the jacks down to boom rather than forward to the mast but I can see no reason why it wouldn't work. I guess my thought (and PBs too ) was that taking them forward to the mast is such a quick and easy thing to do that I saw no reason to further complicate the situation.

I suppose my main point is that when you drop your main you have to go forward to remove the main halyard from the mainsail anyway so deploying the lazy jacks and the topping lift is just as easy to do from the mast as it would be from the cockpit. I also take a little extra time and flake the main down rather than simply letting it fall willy nilly.

Thinking about it further, I'd guess that there must be a way of leaving your main halyard attached to the sail as long as you have a downhaul that can re tension the halyard after the sail is down. Then all that handling can be done from the cockpit. I also take my main halyard back to the end of the boom when at rest to prevent it slapping against the mast. Alex has a single line furler on G , perhaps it's possible to also rig up a similar idea for the main halyard. I've not thought that idea through.

My main question remains which is, does it all really achieve anything ? I guess again that some of us don't have a problem with going forward where others do. One other issue is that Giulietta has a lot more room under the dodger for all those stoppers and winches. Raven is shorter and less beamy than G and I'd have difficulty getting all that installed in a way that would allow the winch handle to arc through 360 degrees but I'm sure that with a bit of thought something could be worked out.

I'd suspect , by the way, that Alex's method is excellently thought out and that if he either approves of the Skipjack method or has an alternative then listen to him.

Cheers

TD

ps - Saturday, weather permitting is going to be a work day (boat work that is) so I'll sit and ponder all this when on board and report back next week.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

The thing is Capn, is that once you loosen the lazy jacks, you still have to tie them out of the way, or perhaps secure them would make more sense. I don't see where the extra line and hardware is worth the price or effort.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Thru out the years and the multiple boats I owned, I was able to perfect the lazy bag / Lazy Jack system on my boats, to what I have now.

I don't need to touch the lazy jack lines ever on my boat, either with the sails up or down. And my boom comes down a lot when the sail is up.

My lazy bag /jack lines are tied at the mast, and I never need to touch them.

Bellow are a few drawings I made that show the different set up systems I have used and the one I use now.

This is the arrangment I have now in Giulietta when we go in crusing mode..










And bellow are two different arrangments I had in previous boats.

The one on the right was on my X yacht, the one on the left was on my DC740










Bellow is another system I had in Giulietta initially and worked fine. But then I realized I didn't need to change it that much and modofied it to the set up in the first drawing.

Hope this helps. If you have questions just ask. I'm busy today, but will gladly help.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

But Giu's got a stack-pack type sail cover, rather than a more traditional cover. The Stack-pack covers are actually part of the sail IIRC—as they're sewn to the foot of the sail.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Giu also doesn't have full battens - which exacerbates the snagging problem typically associated with lazyjacks.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

tdw said:


> My dig at PB is based on his political leanings.


 I should have suspected that.



tdw said:


> Just me being a smart aleck.


I should have expected that!


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> But Giu's got a stack-pack type sail cover, rather than a more traditional cover. The Stack-pack covers are actually part of the sail IIRC-as they're sewn to the foot of the sail.


SD not exactly.

The bag is separated from the sail. The sail is lose footed. The bag has a small cord swen into it on the bottom, and at the top of the boom I have an aluminium track that holds the bag by runing the cord along it.
I can remove the bag and leave the sail alone. The bag comes off for racing and the sail is different too.

Bellow is a photo that shows the track on top of the boom, and the bag that runs in the track.



















The bag attaches to the boom via that cord/track arrangment and the sail just falls inside the bag. The lazy jack is attached to the bag AND not to the boom.

Here you can see the bag runing along the small aluminium white track.










Its the bag that takes the slack when the sail is up, and by making the bag full with the sail it also tightens in when the sail is down. Pretty simple.










So when sailing the bag stretches up (without forcing), wich also reduces windage, when not sailing it holds the boom together with toping lift.

EDIT: added the drawing bellow


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> Giu also doesn't have full battens - which exacerbates the snagging problem typically associated with lazyjacks.


TB, my system would work even with full battened sails...I don't see the snag problem you mean, can you please explain where it snags? Is it when you hoist and the wind blows the batten part under the lazy jack line? If it is, I solved the problem by making sure the main sheet is loose and the boat is pointing perfectly into the wind. But even then sometimes it snags..I just lower it a little and hoist when clear...a small price to pay for being able to tame a 65 foot tall main sail alone...don't you agree?

Besides...I don't know any other system that I like more than this.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Giu-

Thanks for the clarification. Your sail cover looks a lot like a Doyle Stack Pack, which I believe is attached to the sail, not separate. The idea of getting one that uses the bolt-rope track makes a lot of sense. I think I might look at getting a cover like yours made for my boat. 

BTW, Giu, the rope is called a boltrope.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

The StackPack is indeed attached to the sail, using a membrane that holds the cover to the sail when raised.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Giulietta said:


> TB, my system would work even with full battened sails...I don't see the snag problem you mean, can you please explain where it snags? Is it when you hoist and the wind blows the batten part under the lazy jack line? If it is, I solved the problem by making sure the main sheet is loose and the boat is pointing perfectly into the wind. But even then sometimes it snags..I just lower it a little and hoist when clear...a small price to pay for being able to tame a 65 foot tall main sail alone...don't you agree?
> 
> Besides...I don't know any other system that I like more than this.


Giu,
My main & headsail halyards don't run aft, requiring me to be at the mainmast when raising sail. This is less of a problem with my wife at the helm. But when solosailing with autopilot, even when the boat is pointing as close to the wind as possible, variable winds and AP drift can cause the battens to snag the LazyJack lines . . especially during stronger winds.

No big deal. Like you said, raising a bit then lowering, clears the lines and is a small price to pay for the convenience.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Practical Sailor (TM) evaluated the E-Z-JAX System and lazyjacks from Harken, Schaefer, and other suppliers. The E-Z-JAX System rated highly because of the unique retracting feature. Read more in the January 1, 1996, issue (Vol. 22, No. 1) of Pratical Sailor.

http://www.ezjax.com/pracsailrate.html

How do you raise and retract the system?

On each side of the sail are cascading lines that are held up by a control line that goes up through a cheek block and back down to a cleat mounted near the gooseneck. Like your halyard, when the control lines are pulled the system is raised into position. When released, it falls of it's own weight and the system can then be attached to the "keeper kit".

7. What holds the E-Z-JAX system in place when retracted along the boom?

A "keeper kit" - a piece of shock cord on each side of the goose neck, one end attached to an eyestrap on the front face of the mast and the other end attached to a nylon hook. The hook is used to hold the system in place when the system isn't being used.

8. How does the cockpit control option work?

The cockpit control option includes control lines long enough to extend to cockpit, and a keeper kit that will automatically release when the free end is tugged from cockpit.


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## pegasus1457 (Apr 14, 2002)

CapnHand said:


> I appreciate the answers so far, but they don't provide what I want, or else I don't fully undestand PBzeer's post and tdw's cryptic reference back to it (quite possible).
> Has anyone tried something like this? Skipjacks
> If so, how well do they work?
> Was it 'more trouble than it's worth'? (actually doesn't look like a lot of trouble)
> ...


I recently bought JiffyJax and installed on my boat. One of the other suppliers that I looked at offers an option to deploy from the cockpit. Look at their web site:
http://www.ezjax.com/prices.html​


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Okay...what is Jiffy Jax? BTW...EZ Jax is what I recommended just before your post?

EDIT: Ahhhh...nevermind...goggled it and its the same as EZ Jax without the cockpit deployment option uh?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks for all the help so far.

Gui, Your system is slick as it tames the main and bags it as well. I have a full footed main and mid boom sheeting. I would have to find a way to work around that, if I decide to go that way. Any ideas?

T37 & Pegasus, EZ Jacks are pretty close to what I'd like. With the retractable option, the cost is $400+. 

I'm thinking the cost would be about $150, about a third of the cost to go DIY. Their use of shock cord for retracting has me thinking that I may only need one line running back to the cockpit for deploying. (I have adjustable genoa cars set up in a similar way.)

How well do you like the jiffy / ez-jack system? Any problems, anything you would like to change on it?


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## pegasus1457 (Apr 14, 2002)

*sorry ...*

I overlooked your post.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

An article from Good Old Boat that includes design considerations and DIY pricing. I wasn't that far off with an estimate of $150.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

CapnHand said:


> T37 & Pegasus, EZ Jacks are pretty close to what I'd like. With the retractable option, the cost is $400+.
> 
> How well do you like the jiffy / ez-jack system? Any problems, anything you would like to change on it?


They must have raised their prices, I purchased the 4L system with the bullet blocks (spreader attachment point) from EZ Jax just after the Annapolis boat show last year (2206) for about $225. I am not so good at splicing lines, otherwise I would have made the system myself  Plus the time involved and I would never have finished the project  

I like the system very much, considering what it cost, plus no refit to sail or sail cover, easy maintenance, and when stowed, it does not chafe the mainsail, interfere with sail shape, or catch the battens, it was a no brainer.

I think overall the Dutchman is a better system (I have no real practical experience with the Dutchman) but it was considerably more $$$...PLUS the refit needed for the sail and sail cover didn't prove worth the extra $1000-$1500.

If I had thought more forward about bringing all the mainsail lines to the cockpit, I would have opted for the cockpit deployment option for EZ. However this would have included bringing the halyard, reefing, and vang lines back to the cockpit for it to make any sense (IMO)

As I have said before...if I had more money than what I knew to do with I would opt for a boom furl unit...no question! But for around $250.00 (a year ago) and 3 hours of time... it is awesome!!!!!!! Dollar for dollar it is the best system. IMO

Giu...A beauty your boat is! Especially without the dodger...but the dog **** ugly sail bag...come on


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