# Initial Offer Question



## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

I think I read here last year the initial offer one should make is 20% less than asking price. Is that about right?


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Your offer should be based on what you think the boat is worth after looking at competing boats in the marketplace, blue book value, and boat condition.

There is no general rule on how much lower you should go.


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## mark2gmtrans (May 14, 2013)

I have always worked through a broker who helped me make a very good offer. I usually offer about 25% less than what I want to pay, I do not want to pay any more than I have to, and I do my best to drive a very hard bargain. I once bought a new Nissan Titan 4x4 four door pickup for $27,000.00 less than what the dealer was asking. It took three nights of negotiating until well after closing, and they finally took my offer, probably out of pure desire not to have me come back and stay until 1:00 AM another night, but no matter what the case I got the truck I wanted at the price I wanted to pay.

One key to negotiations on vehicles is patience and cash. If you are not going to finance the boat, car, semi-truck, house or whatever, or if you are not going to finance it with the seller, you have a much more firm position to bargain from and the seller has no hold on you. It is also common practice to post a surety or escrow with an offer in earnest to the seller while in negotiation. Using a broker who is working on your behalf will help with the legal paperwork, the offer in earnest, and the transfer and escrow of funds.

If you are buying from an individual you can still use the services of a broker, for a fee. If you would like to know more on this you can PM me here, I can check with my broker and have him put you in contact with someone from his company in your area, and they can help you if you are not working with someone already.

Remember the seller is going to try to get the best deal for himself, you should do the same.

Mark


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

For anyone who endured with me through this last year, on an almost purchase, this will probably cause your eyes to roll back into their sockets.

The boat? Sabre 34. Yeah, the same make & model but not the same year. _"Remember the chainplates!"_ 

But this one isn't $12K. It's over 4 times that, asking price. It's only about 40 miles from here so I can actually see it without hopping on a plane.

I think the price is too high, based on the pics and info provided, but I don't want to insult the owners and that be the end of it. So I was just wondering what the typical seller is used to hearing for the initial offer.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

JulieMor said:


> ....I was just wondering what the typical seller is used to hearing for the initial offer.


Absolutely, positively no answer to this. It depends on whether the seller has listed far above value, at value or, while rare, below value.

You should make an offer just a bit below what you think the boat is worth, whatever that relationship is to the asking price. Doesn't matter. Could be half. Could be asking price. Don't screw up your deal with averages. Know what you are buying.

Then sell yourself as a buyer! Do you have cash, can you demonstrate that you've bought before and aren't just a tire kicker, etc. They may jump on your offer, or you may need some wiggle room to come up to what you are actually willing to pay.

If one's self worth is based upon sitting at the bar and telling stories about how much lower than asking price you paid, then just make it up! Its no different than how big today's offshore waves and wind were. 

Good luck.


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## Unkle Toad (May 11, 2013)

HOw about an offer based on what I can afford (less then I believe the boat is worth) dont want to insult the seller but I really like the boat.. I will be cash in hand(ok bank) when I make the offer..


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## Pegu club (Jun 10, 2012)

In my world anyone selling anything used regardless of what it is knows that they will be countered on the price. No one gets asking price on a used boat, if it is what you want, and it fits your needs offer 15% to 20 % below asking price. If the seller is so sensitive to a counter offer that they tell you to never come back you likely don't want to do business with them, ever.

Happy hunting


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> If one's self worth is based upon sitting at the bar and telling stories about how much lower than asking price you paid, then just make it up! Its no different than how big today's offshore waves and wind were.


That made me laugh! How many times in business did do the same thing to make the deal happen! I've been retired too long. Gotta get back the art of the deal.

I called the broker to see when we can take a look. Left a message. Now sharpening buying skills.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

In this deal their are three parts. The buyer the boat and the seller. As the buyer you know all their is about the buyer but little about the boat and the seller. You do the best you can to learn about the boat, survey, sea trial etc. but at the end of the day the seller probably knows more about the boat.

If it is a hands off deal where you only get to talk to the broker it is hard to judge the real situation. If you can work it so you can talk to the seller you may be able to frame your offer to be more appealing.

Selling a boat is very emotional for a lot of people. Every situation is different. Some people are broke and think they need a specific number that is more than the boat is worth.
If you can show them with comps and repair estimates your offer is good you may get them to budge.
Other people are emotionally invested in the boat but have plenty of money. If you make yourself look like a younger version of them they may sell you the boat way under value just because they want to boat to go to a good home.

The more you can tailor your offer to the sellers real needs the better your chances.
Sometimes it is just about the money but often it is not.


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## scratchee (Mar 2, 2012)

Pegu club said:


> No one gets asking price on a used boat, if it is what you want, and it fits your needs offer 15% to 20 % below asking price...


I paid the asking price for my used boat. I had been trolling Craigslist, Yachtworld, and eBay for several weeks, and I knew the price was fair and the boat was what I wanted. I continue to check those sites (over a year now) and haven't seen an obviously better deal.

I am always interested in getting a good deal, but never interested in negotiating just for the sake of negotiating. I agree with Alex that your offer should be based on your opinion of the value of the boat, your own needs, and the current marketplace. If that offer is less than asking then so be it, but if it's the asking price (or higher, in some market situations) then that's OK too.


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## TheWollard (Jan 24, 2013)

When I purchased my W27 this year, I made it clear to the seller that I was going to make only one offer. My highest. That was it. They could then decide how my offer compared to the other offers in hand.

Based on our conversations, I knew that several others had inspected the boat and made extremely low offers. 25% of asking.

I offered 70% of asking price, and felt like I got quite a deal when they accepted.


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## afrinus (Feb 27, 2011)

Another one here that paid asking price.
As said before, you offer what the boat is worth to you. Fair value!
In my case the seller set his price, it was at my budget, and so the only thing that remained was to see if the value was there. 
I belief it was and therefore made the deal. 
In the end it paid big dividends as I got free use of the sellers dock for more than 6 months from the purchase to work on the boat.

I know I wouldn't have got that if I tried to haggle unreasonably.

What's your integrity worth to you?


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

First boat offered 70% of asking price, we settled at about 80% with some additional repairs done at owners expense.

Sold first boat at about 70% of my asking price but I took some gear with me.

Second boat offered 70% of asking price. Rejected, could not come to an agreement.
Revisited three months later and gave the broker the exact same offer, he called me back within three minutes to say we had a deal.

It's business. Never personal.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

I'd agree with most posts so far. I will point out that it is still a crappy market for selling a used luxury item like a boat though. In my opinion a seller ought to be happy getting 70% of their asking price in this market.

I think that davidpm makes a good point in that it can help you a lot if you have some idea of the seller's motivation. In my case our PO had already bought a bigger boat and was motivated to sell his old gal as he was paying 2 yard bills concurrently. From an asking price around $7K my minions negotiated a final price of $4K. 

Hopefully the higher asking price of this Sabre 34' reflects that it is in better condition and not the idea that the owner feels that their precious baby is worth more than what a Sabre 34' is really worth.

If many recent upgrades and new stuff (sails, running/standing rigging, engine, radar, fridge etc.) then that could also explain the higher asking price. 

Good luck Julie.


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## fryewe (Dec 4, 2004)

The Sabre in Waukegan is a nice looking boat but seventy percent of 50 grand is still 35 grand. Wow. It ain't the top asking price for the 12 available in the US right now but it's right up there.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

CalebD said:


> I'd agree with most posts so far. I will point out that it is still a crappy market for selling a used luxury item like a boat though. In my opinion a seller ought to be happy getting 70% of their asking price in this market.


If the seller understands the market then their price is already lowered to be 70% of what the asking price might be in a stronger market.

I also find it hard to get involved in price comparisons across the US. Based on Sailnet and Yacht World the boat market is clearly different in the Chesapeake than in Puget Sound.

It sounds like this one might be price high, but that doesn't mean that all are. I bought my Pearson for about 10-15% under the asking price and feel like I got a good deal.


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## MarkSailor (Oct 17, 2010)

I agree with the posters who say there is no single answer. The best negotiation advice I could give you is to figure out what is important to you and also to the seller. Sometimes what they need doesn't cost you as much as it benefits the seller.

I suggest you start by deciding what the boat is worth to you. If you have been following sales sites like Yachtworld you know what people are asking, but may not know what boats sold for. If you work with a broker, he can probably access a database called "sold boats" that shows that information. It can be a real eye opener if there are a lot of the same model of boat out there, but may not help much if the boat you are looking at is less common.

Once you know what the boat is worth to you, find out all you can about what the boat is worth to the seller, and why he or she is selling. Find out how long the boat has been on the market, and if possible, find out if it has been reduced in price before you looked at it. All of these things might influence how the seller will respond to an offer. If the boat is newly on the market, and if there are no obvious indicators that the seller is in financial trouble, then the seller is less likely to respond favorably to a low offer. If the boat has been on the market for a long time, and the price has been reduced several times, the seller may be more receptive. 

I disagree with the poster who said make one offer at top dollar and tell the seller it's a take it or leave it offer. The problem is, you may mean it, but sellers almost never believe it, and it makes a harder negotiation if you start at the top and refuse to budge. That is true whether you are trying to buy a car, a boat, a house, or anything else. 

Besides, if you start at your top dollar, you don't know if the seller would have sold for less. If you want to pay the lowest price you can, your goal is to make the lowest initial offer that the seller will respond to with a counter-offer. That's where understanding the seller's motivation comes into play.

Two other recommendations: One is to make your offer subject to survey. It costs money to have a proper survey done, but it can save money in the long run if you find problems that need to be fixed. If there are problems, you can re-negotiate the price with the seller to cover the repairs (if he or she agrees) or walk away if the repairs make the deal not a good one after all. The second recommendation is to be careful working with a broker. They can be a source of valuable information and good advice, but if the broker is being paid by the seller (or out of the selling price) then the broker may have a duty to the seller to try to get you to pay the highest price possible. You can ask the broker who is paying him or her, and most reputable brokers will be up front about this part of their business. It may just mean you can't rely on the broker for advice about the price.

Good Luck.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Another angle on this. It is not uncommon for some owners to list there boat for what they paid, plus the cost of the improvements they've made. Even if they absolutely know that the improvements are not worth their cost, they figure nothing ventured nothing gained. If they get their money back, they will buy bigger. If they don't they keep what they have.

In those cases, if you offer a standard 15 or 20 percent less, you are grossly overpaying.

No standard answer.


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

Do your home work Offer 10% less than you will be prepared to pay, this gives you some wriggle room. GOOD boats priced right don't last and you can well lose a good boat. I have seen stupid offers made on good boats and the original prospective comes back a Month later expecting to put in a decent offer only to be told "Sorry under contract". Sellers are starting to realize that asking too much for their boat actually poisons it. as every couple of months they have to drop the price to what they should have originally listed it for. The buyers that have been watching this over priced vessel have either bought the better priced boat or waiting for this one to hit rock bottom. Pay a reasonable price that makes you and the seller happy, there have been some great friendships made that cover oceans.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

You should offer the fair market value of a comparable boat.

A common issue is buyer fixation. The buyer decides one boat or one model is THE BOAT and he or she loses all objectivity. The seller then controls the transaction because the buyer will do pay or do anything to buy that particular boat or one of the limited supply of that particular model.

Why are you really buying a sailboat? What do you envision it will it do for you?

Whatever your reasons, there are likely plenty of comparable boats that would satisfy your purposes (that are not Sabre 34s). Offer what you believe you would have to pay to satisfy your boating needs.

Deciding on a Sabre complicates the process, because you will be paying for something beyond any real practical value for many sailors, for some element of owner satisfaction. Sabres are well-made, quality boats which display considerable craftsmanship, particularly in the interior. Racers describe these kinds of boats derogatorily as "furniture boats". Ultimately, this build quality and craftsmanship have little or nothing to do with getting from point A to point B, seaworthiness, cruising ability, sailing enjoyment, or sailing ability. To use a car analogy, you will be buying a Mercedes or a BMW, not a Toyota or a Honda, or even a Lexus or an Infiniti.

If you want a good value or a practical boat, there are any number of less expensive boats that will function just as well as a Sabre 34.

I don't begrudge anyone who wants to pay extra for the satisfaction of greater quality. If it satisfies your emotional needs, more power to you. Just understand why you are buying a particular type of boat and the costs that you pay for to satisfy that need.

I agree with making your offer more attractive by showing your ability to close the sale. Offer to provide the bank statement showing liquid funds in your account, or your loan pre-approval if you will be financing the purchase. Expect information from the seller about what you are purchasing.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Unkle Toad said:


> HOw about an offer based on what I can afford (less then I believe the boat is worth) dont want to insult the seller but I really like the boat.. I will be cash in hand(ok bank) when I make the offer..


That's how I got all 4 of my boats (Catalina 25, Allmand 31, Albacore 15, Bombard AX3). I have always been completely honest about my situation, told them that I know the market stinks but I have cash (no financing that could fall through) and wished them good luck (in advance) if they decide not to take my offer. I've been cursed out by a few sellers, but in general people are polite, and occasionally you find one who will sell you his/her boat for the price you can pay.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Have you seen the NADA boat value guides, and are you aware of BoatUS's boat value service? BOth are free (though you have to give BoatUS your info, and they will hit you up to insure the boat), and are EXCELLENT ways of getting a sense of what an "average condition" version of any given boat will sell for. In my opinion, that's an easy, neutral way of finding a baseline for the price. Then you adjust up or down based on condition, equipment, etc.

In the end, I agree with most of the other posts here - YOU have to feel good when the transaction is finished. Become as informed as possible, and make the offer that a) you can justify and b) you think the seller will accept.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

jameswilson29 said:


> You should offer the fair market value of a comparable boat.
> 
> A common issue is buyer fixation. The buyer decides one boat or one model is THE BOAT and he or she loses all objectivity. The seller then controls the transaction because the buyer will do pay or do anything to buy that particular boat or one of the limited supply of that particular model.
> 
> ...


As James said Sabres are quality build boats. That's why the 84 Sabre you are looking at has a higher resale value. not because its a furniture build boat. The 34 Sabre is also a good handling well balanced sailing boat. The accompaniments of having a great fit and finish inside make it a sought after brand. In addition it standard comes with oversized equipment and quality winches. The build quality is also why this boat has retained more of its % value than say a comparable year hunter/ bene. You tend to find more of the Sabres around % to the number built than many other boat models, again going back to the quality of build. Yes both sail, but some sail better,. If you are using it for racing there is no value in the beautiful joinery, but your not so the joinery adds to the "feel" of the boat as a second place to be which is important to you. With Sabres you get the best of both worlds. A quick good sailing well designed boat with a superior wood finish inside.

As you look at making an offer as others have said there is no standard bid. In looking at the Waukeegan boat if that's the one I would say it looks in good condition from the pictures. It also doesn't have a lot of extra equipment on her. The way the sails are described ill bet the are original. The engine has very low hours for a 39 year old boat. If she has been kept on the Lakes her entire life it means she has been sailed and exposed lightly.

In negotiating first determine the price you will not go above in the end. What's its worth in the market and to you. This boat is listed at 49, way above its worth in the current market. Looking at comps I would say its 39-40is high end. Personally I would start at 32 and not go above 37. If there is apparently issues with the chain plates and have them fixed as a condition of sale or further reduction in price.

As James said don't get fixated. I would also continue looking and develop other potential boats so you don't feel pressured to not walk away.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Honestly I think the NADA Guides are pretty inaccurate. If it is a common boat then I wouldn't give them too much credit. You can try to use them for negotiating, but I wouldn't take them too seriously.

Maybe they are just incredibly inaccurate for my boat because they are mixing up sales history for both models of Pearson 28. They don't even have the measurements correct for my boat. The list of optional equipment makes no sense for smaller sailboats either.

I also did an estimate for a Catalina 25 and it's a little more reasonable, though the option list still doesn't make any sense. There is also no consideration for condition.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

PHRF ratings are the best indications we have of relative sailing speeds of different boats in mixed fleet racing.

A Sabre 34 rates anywhere from 141 - 165
A C&C 35-2 rates anywhere from 123-139
A Pearson 10M (33 feet) rates anywhere from 141-150

There is a decent looking C&C 35-2 over on the Eastern Shore for $19K - the boat I would probably buy if I were moving up in size, suitable for my purposes: 1974 C&C MK II sailboat for sale in Maryland
It is probably 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of the Sabre 34 and is a clearly faster boat, good build quality, and a great-sailing boat according to all the reviews. You can also buy a decent, faster, Pearson 10M for less than $20K.

Again, I just can't see paying twice or three times as much for a boat that essentially performs the same purpose with basically the same accommodations for cruising, but to each his own. Personally, I would not pay a premium for a nicer interior and better build quality with no practical advantages for my purposes of day sailing and occasional coastal cruising.

This is not to criticize your choice at all, Julie. I think the Sabres are great boats and I understand why people buy them. Just consider your other options, because you are moving out of the realm of the purely practical into the more emotional reasons for buying.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

jameswilson29 said:


> PHRF ratings are the best indications we have of relative sailing speeds of different boats in mixed fleet racing.
> 
> A Sabre 34 rates anywhere from 141 - 165
> A C&C 35-2 rates anywhere from 123-139
> ...


Didn't know you were in the market James. I would part with my 35 MKIII k/c for the right price


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

James: I think it's a valid approach for you to maximize PHRF for the dollar, but I can also understand other people having different priorities. I also care about having a good performing boat (interestingly we've both ended up with different eras of the Pearson 28, both have a respectable PHRF for a cruising 28' boat) but also care about interior layout and comfort. C&C 29 and 30 were also high on my list when I was most recently shopping.

If you are maximizing PHRF for the minimum cost (ignoring quality) it seems like there would be even cheaper options than a C&C 35, like a San Juan 34?


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

chef2sail said:


> Didn't know you were in the market James. I would part with my 35 MKIII k/c for the right price


I started the discussion with my wife and she suddenly expressed a previously undisclosed attachment to the P28, along with her professed belief that it serves all our purposes...

...and when I am perfectly rational and I try to figure out exactly what all that additional expense would do for me on a practical level, I have no good answers to my own questions.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

Unkle Toad said:


> dont want to insult the seller...


I've never understood this mentality. Receiving an offer to purchase a boat, regardless of price, shouldn't be insulting to anyone. The worst they can say is "No".

Study the market, know your budget and make the offer that makes sense.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

mark2gmtrans said:


> .... Using a broker who is working on your behalf will help with the legal paperwork, the offer in earnest, and the transfer and escrow of funds.
> 
> If you are buying from an individual you can still use the services of a broker, for a fee. If you would like to know more on this you can PM me here, I can check with my broker and have him put you in contact with someone from his company in your area, and they can help you if you are not working with someone already....
> Mark


While a boat buyer may (should IMHO)work with a broker on a search, for the benefits that you mention and more, that broker (referred to in the paperwork as the selling broker) is legally an agent of the seller and is always compensated by the seller from the sale proceeds.

Despite a number of other threads here on the concept of a "buyer" broker, namely a broker who is an agent of the buyer and is compensated by the buyer, no such real individual has yet appeared.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

Here's my thinking...

The boat was built in 1984, making it 29 years old. Most of the boats we've been looking at were built in the 80s. I know boats tire with age and use, some faster than others. Usually, the quality boat tires more slowly. So from that point of view, the quality boat is more appealing to me. And upon resale, it won't depreciate dramatically from age 29 to maybe the mid 30s.

Right now, we will use it as a weekend get-away and will most likely stay on it overnight a couple nights a week, maybe more. So sleeping, showering, cooking, etc. are important parts of the decision factor.

Sailing - We don't want a tub but we aren't going to race either. Fast and comfortable is ideal though.  We want a boat that can sail in light winds just as easily as heavier winds.  No constant _looks over at the black start button wondering if we don't push it will we ever reach our destination_ thoughts.

Ideally, we'd like to take a week or two to make the trek up the lake, Mackinac Island specifically. That's a two-weeker. So it has to be able to handle the weather and keep two people reasonably comfortable. Anyone who knows the Great Lakes knows violent storms can jump on top of you quickly. So I don't want to be fearing our little boat will be broken apart when we get caught up in that. And if we travel, we will.

I need peace of mind when buying. You can't know everything about a boat, not even with a thorough survey by the most competent surveyor. There's always something about to break down, always something hidden trying to take your boat to Nature's original state. A better quality boat that is well maintained will increase the odds of not experiencing too much of that.

We're going to look at it this weekend. Right now, the boat is on the hard. We may have a motivated seller. But in the end, _it's are we willing to commit to the cost of ownership?_ that will determine if we will become boat owners. This will not become an emotional decision.


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## mark2gmtrans (May 14, 2013)

JulieMor said:


> Here's my thinking...
> 
> I need peace of mind when buying. You can't know everything about a boat, not even with a thorough survey by the most competent surveyor. There's always something about to break down, always something hidden trying to take your boat to Nature's original state. A better quality boat that is well maintained will increase the odds of not experiencing too much of that.
> 
> We're going to look at it this weekend. Right now, the boat is on the hard. We may have a motivated seller. But in the end, _it's are we willing to commit to the cost of ownership?_ that will determine if we will become boat owners. This will not become an emotional decision.


You are the only ones who have to love it, and you should base your spending on your needs and desires, this is not an investment, it is a luxury. It is something you do not because you have to, like food, and so forth, but it is something you do because you love doing it. Spend wisely, use your head, but also use your heart. If you look at the boat and you love it and it is worth to you what you have to pay to get it, then buy it. It will be your responsibility, and your money that has to go to keeping it the way you like it. A good survey is much needed and if you see that the survey reveals things that would make the boat worth less, then show that to the seller, most times they will accept that and either repair it, or reduce the price, often by a lot.

Ten years ago I was looking at a boat, it was more than I could afford, but it caught my eye, and even though the owner was asking $65,000.00 I offered $29,500.00 not because I was trying to lowball him, but because that was all of my budget, plus a little. I made an offer in earnest through a broker, I put up the entire amount in escrow with the broker. He went to the seller and the offer was rejected, but then a survey done by the broker turned up some issues. It was six months later, but I got the boat at $20,000.00 and spent another $18,000.00 on it in repairs and replacing things that were needed. I sailed it for three years, and sold it for $29,000.00. Most people would say I lost money, I would say I gained something money could not buy, the experiences of not only sailing, but also working on the boat. I was happy, and I was the only one I had to please.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

JulieMor said:


> I need peace of mind when buying. You can't know everything about a boat, not even with a thorough survey by the most competent surveyor. There's always something about to break down, always something hidden trying to take your boat to Nature's original state. A better quality boat that is well maintained will increase the odds of not experiencing too much of that.


I understand your goal; I am not sure a more expensive boat will necessarily provide more peace of mind.

If you want peace of mind with an older boat, look for simple, open and sturdy from a reputable builder. Learn how to become an expert boat inspector, be selective about condition (does not necessarily correlate with price), and pay for every possible marine survey- boat, engine and rigging - before you purchase. Be demanding of the owner's knowledge of the vessel - don't deal with someone who is squirrelly, secretive or combative, throws out this _caveat emptor_ B.S., or thinks he or she is doing you a favor by letting you buy his or her boat.

Before you sign a contract, you should know why the owner is selling, the history of his or her ownership, and his or her knowledge of the boat's conditions, including all problems - and they all have problems. Any one who claims his 30 year old boat is perfect (except MaineSail), is either lying, ignorant or nuts.

The more complex, hidden and specialized the boat, the less meaningful interaction you have with the seller, the more likely you will have expensive problems. The less you know and the more you trust the owner, the more you are exposing yourself to costly problems down the road.

Given your needs, I wouldn't gamble on a more expensive boat. Any number of production boats would satisfy your criteria. Look at the problems the last boat you looked at had.


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## FirstCandC (Mar 26, 2013)

JulieMor said:


> _it's are we willing to commit to the cost of ownership?_


EXACTLY- check this out:
COST | Matt & Jessica's Sailing Page

Ouch.


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## jorgenl (Aug 14, 2006)

JulieMor said:


> _
> But in the end, it's are we willing to commit to the cost of ownership? that will determine if we will become boat owners. _


_

I probably misunderstood this paragraph... but, would it not be best to figure out if you can commit to cost of ownership before even looking for a boat?_


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

jameswilson29 said:


> Look at the problems the last boat you looked at had.


Any boat not properly maintained will eventually develop serious problems. The price of that boat also told of serious problems and they eventually surfaced. On this new one, the original engine with only 663 hours on it makes me wonder. Only 22 hours/season engine use? Hmmmmmm.... It will be interesting seeing the boat. I just may flat out not like it. Even that brand new 456 at the Annapolis boat show had things I just didn't like about it. I won't buy unless the glass slipper is the right fit. 

This is just a getting my feet wet thing for now. We're looking at other boats but most of the ones we like are hundreds or more miles away. The Sabre 34 and a couple others that look interesting are close by. We will certainly do a lot of inspecting before we take the plunge.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

In my experience, when the seller is constantly pointing out how great the boat is, and how perfectly they have maintained it, and doing a hard sell, then they are pretty firm on the price.

When they stand back and just say - " there it is, check it out" then they might take less 

Neither of which should really affect your offer, but it gives you some insight.

I once offered 90% on a sailboat and the seller said loudly " I''d put a hole in it and sink it first!" I breathed a sigh of relief and bought a bigger boat cheaper later that year. On the cheap boat I offered 100%, in cash, no dickering.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

jorgenl said:


> I probably misunderstood this paragraph... but, would it not be best to figure out if you can commit to cost of ownership before even looking for a boat?


The money is there. The question is do we want to spend it on a boat, spend it on something else, invest it, save it or some combination therein?

Once we start doing the walk-thrus we'll start to get a sense of where we stand on this.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Alex W said:


> Honestly I think the NADA Guides are pretty inaccurate. If it is a common boat then I wouldn't give them too much credit. You can try to use them for negotiating, but I wouldn't take them too seriously.
> 
> Maybe they are just incredibly inaccurate for my boat because they are mixing up sales history for both models of Pearson 28. They don't even have the measurements correct for my boat. The list of optional equipment makes no sense for smaller sailboats either.
> 
> I also did an estimate for a Catalina 25 and it's a little more reasonable, though the option list still doesn't make any sense. There is also no consideration for condition.


While I agree with some of what you say, it must be noted that if you are financing a boat the lender will start here for a value. Survey may get you to another number, but the key word is "might".

Unfortunately, it's one of those numbers that sellers think is crap, but buyers and finance companies tend to use.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Interesting responses. All are good and I'll only add one thing that I haven't yet read. Buying or selling an item is not a contest of wills. A successful negotiation is a meeting of goals or intentions. As such, it should never be viewed as a zero-sum game where you have to lose for me to win. I run my business this way and it's what's kept us in demand for 26 years. Do your research (BoatUS is a great resource for valuation), and offer a fair price a bit below where you intend to settle. If it doesn't happen, then my mom's advise applies - there is always another "good deal".

Ok, I'll add a second response. Yes, Sabres are well built but so are Catalinas. The reason why a Sabre is so much more pricy is the interior and the cost of the components, not the quality of the hull itself. IMO, Catalina makes an excellent boat. But Garhauer is much cheaper than Schaefer and there is no such thing as a stock Sabre sail. The interior is piece-built by hand and there are virtually no moulded components (except for the shower on newer Sabres). That all costs. Each Sabre is semi-custom.

I agree with jimwilson that we're not as fast as others, but we can go almost-fast in great style and comfort! As for a 1984 Sabre's longevity...um, if it's maintained, it can be a gem. I know, I have an '84 and had an '82 Sabre 28 before this. PM me if you have any specific questions.

NOTE: Sabre no longer manufactures sailboats. If you own one, you own a collector's edition.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

There's another factor I'm looking at - resale. There's a never ending list of production boats for sale so when it comes time to sell, to either go up or out, if you have a production boat, that you want to sell quickly, you will most likely have to sell it at a much lower than value price. I've seen production boats priced in the $30-50K range that have been for sale over a year. I wouldn't want to get stuck there though I know there's no guarantee I won't by buying up. It's always a roll of the dice.

I'm an avid woodworker and being surrounded by beautiful woodwork and joinery can be soothing to me. The boat is my escape. When I see interiors filled with white fiberglass, it hurts my eyes. I'm just finishing up a cabinet refacing in the kitchen, my first time working with sapele. It's absolutely gorgeous! Salepe has such beautiful chatoyance. I think I like it better than figured maple.

And I need that. Yes, NEED.  My friends joke, telling me my house looks like a boat.  Gee, I wonder why... So I'm willing to pay extra for that. It's worth it to me.

I got this from BoatUS today:
_Resale value is estimated to be $35,796.00, although, noting the age, the specific vessel could easily be properly priced significantly higher (or lower).

We would, therefore, encourage at least an informal "sense of things" inspection and consultation with a marine surveyor prior to making an offer, to be followed up by a thorough pre-purchase survey upon acceptance of the offer.

In any case, it is recommended that you avail yourself of a sea-trial, to include flying all sails in the inventory, a complete rigging and hull survey, and a separate engine and engineering survey of the mechanical propulsion components, preferably by an experienced technician certified for that brand of machinery, and including a spectrographic analysis of the engine oil._

The owners are asking $49,900. If lenders start at the BoatUS number, it seems a stretch to get to almost $50K, especially with the original motor. At least it's not an Atomic!

We'll take a look at it this weekend. We'll be looking at other boats too.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Julie - I just went through this purchasing my Hunter 40.

Smack, The Boys & Their Yacht

Offered 22% below asking. Purchase price ended-up about 25% below asking after settling on some work that needed to be done. Everyone's pretty happy.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Offer $30k and see what happens?


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

JulieMor said:


> This will not become an emotional decision.


Now that's just funny.
Good luck with that.
Just like picking a man to marry is not an emotional decision.
Good bone structure, good teeth, solid career, good family.
No emotions necessary. 

I do know what you mean though.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

JulieMor said:


> There's another factor I'm looking at - resale. There's a never ending list of production boats for sale so when it comes time to sell, to either go up or out, if you have a production boat, that you want to sell quickly, you will most likely have to sell it at a much lower than value price. I've seen production boats priced in the $30-50K range that have been for sale over a year. I wouldn't want to get stuck there though I know there's no guarantee I won't by buying up. It's always a roll of the dice.
> 
> I'm an avid woodworker and being surrounded by beautiful woodwork and joinery can be soothing to me. The boat is my escape. When I see interiors filled with white fiberglass, it hurts my eyes. I'm just finishing up a cabinet refacing in the kitchen, my first time working with sapele. It's absolutely gorgeous! Salepe has such beautiful chatoyance. I think I like it better than figured maple.
> 
> ...


Julie as a wood geek I'm just thrilled that you used chatoyance in your post 

Seriously as I read through this thread I kept coming back to something a wise broker once told me - A well loved boat, in good condition will always sell quickly regardless of the market.

From what I've seen over the past few years he was right. If this is the boat on YachtWorld that others have mentioned it certainly looks well loved, and in a boat this age a well maintained boat really stands out from the crowd. It won't last long on the market.

Is the price too high? Well you said it yourself, you'll know when you step aboard if this is the boat for you. Make what you think is a fair offer contingent upon a survey and test sail. Tell the broker why you think it's worth X so they have something to go back with besides a number. That can make a difference. No need to beat the seller over the head.

And as for the brand/boat, well you keep coming back to Sabre. Even if you can't exactly put your finger on it there's a reason those boats appeal to you. That's all the reason you need. Best of luck and hopefully she's the one.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

smackdaddy said:


> Julie - I just went through this purchasing my Hunter 40.
> 
> Smack, The Boys & Their Yacht
> 
> Offered 22% below asking. Purchase price ended-up about 25% below asking after settling on some work that needed to be done. Everyone's pretty happy.


Smack Congrats!

Best of luck with her.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

davidpm said:


> Now that's just funny.
> Good luck with that.
> Just like picking a man to marry is not an emotional decision.
> Good bone structure, good teeth, solid career, good family.
> ...


Thanks David! Now you're challenging my ability to lie to myself and the rest of the world? I don't need a shrink. I need people who will ignore facts and encourage me to indulge myself in my fantasies.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

JimMcGee said:


> Julie as a wood geek I'm just thrilled that you used chatoyance in your post


Chatoyance


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

JulieMor said:


> Thanks David! Now you're challenging my ability to lie to myself and the rest of the world? I don't need a shrink. I need people who will ignore facts and encourage me to indulge myself in my fantasies.


At least we are in the same (pun alert) boat.


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

Hi Julie, I own an '85 Sabre 34, and while I think my boat is worth every bit of $60,000. 
;-) I'd never get it. Nor would I expect to get $50,000. If I could. I'd probably sell it today and help you sail it home. ;-) Then I'd buy that Kelly Peterson that's been offered here. 
Or look for a Sabre 362. In the meantime, as the song goes, "I'll love the one I'm with"
and I do. 

I believe Boat US has probably given you good information as have others here. I thought Chef was also right on the mark with his $ estimates of the market. 

I may not be the fastest boat out there, but I am very pleased with her sailing performance. 
I put new sails on her shortly after taking possession and new sails make a huge difference in performance. No need for a 150. 

Maintenence is everything and a poorly maintained Sabre like any other boat could reveal expensive repairs. 
Things I'd look for would be: any evidence of leaks around chainplates that have gone unattended, Check the mast step for any corrosion. ( I got to mine in time) I'd check the cockpit sole around the emergency tiller location for soft spots, to mention a few. If you get that far a good surveyor will pick up those items. The engine looks like it is pretty clean and maintained. I'd check the heat exchanger for corrosion. That's a $400 part. ( I know) Hopefully he's changed the zincs regularly. 
He's got 4 batteries on that boat? I'm not sure what he's running since it doesn't seem like there's a lot of electronics, but that Electrical Panel didn't have alot of room for all the modern conveniences. I wonder. See if he's running stuff directly from the batts. 

The woodwork is pretty decent, but I wouldn't call it a Mercedes. Having dug into it a little, there are a few things that Sabre could have done better. There was alot of bare wood under the vinyl liners that wasn't treated in any way. The handrails are not bolted through but screwed into the core. Check for any leaks. The opening ports could have been a better quality and I may decide one day to replace mine. 

It's a pretty Traditional Layout. Not really spacious by today's standards but quite comfortable for a couple. You might find that the most comfortable berth is the salon pullout. 

I'd prefer a head that was aft rather than forward as mine is. With the table unfolded and open the head is not easily accessed. That said, I spend more time in the cockpit. So it's rarely an issue. 
I do like an aft head..to get out of wet gear and so that you don't go through the salon if people are sleeping off watch. ..but that too hasn't been a major issue lately. 

The Seacocks are as good as you can get imo. Don't let anyone replace them..just keep em cleaned and lubricated. 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the heck out of my Sabre. I've owned it for 8 years and sailed her 18, buying from a friend. She's been up and down the east coast of the US from Maine to Jacksonville and to Bermuda. I'm trying to be realistic. Given your sailing plans, there are any number of vessels that would fit the bill. You probably don't need to spend that much money on a 30 year old vessel. I'd negotiate a better price or keep looking.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

JulieMor said:


> Thanks David! Now you're challenging my ability to lie to myself and the rest of the world? I don't need a shrink. I need people who will ignore facts and encourage me to indulge myself in my fantasies.





davidpm said:


> Now that's just funny.
> Good luck with that.
> Just like picking a man to marry is not an emotional decision.
> Good bone structure, good teeth, solid career, good family.
> ...


When you walk down the dock or dinghy away from the mooring there is a tendency to look back over your shoulder at your boat.

If she doesn't put a smile on your face, fill you with a little bit of pride, then she's simply not worth having.

Yeah, you have to check out all the systems. Yeah you have to make sure the numbers work on some level.

But at the end of the day EVERY boat is an emotional purchase.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

I paid asking because I wanted the boat and needed time to come up with the cash. After he accepted the offer the P.O. threw in about 10k of additional stuff that he could have sold separately. 
I don't consider re-sale of a boat when I buy it (i.e. will I get my money out). I buy a boat because I like it and it's sound and meets my need. 

Julie, if this is YOUR boat, offer what you think will be accepted. If it's rejected ask for a counter, then counter that etc, but always stipulate final is on completion and possible rectification of survey/issues.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

JulieMor said:


> Thanks David! Now you're challenging my ability to lie to myself and the rest of the world? I don't need a shrink. I need people who will ignore facts and *encourage me to indulge myself in my fantasies. *


I've sat quietly through all of this, and I'll say that you've completely crossed the line of being a "thoughtful, and frugal shopper" into total paralysis.

You've built a list of impossible-to-satisfy criteria, along with the equally impossible criteria that this _entire_ list must be satisfied. It seems that you're more in love with the idea of boat shopping, than boat ownership or any actual sailing.

I recommend that you sign up for a fractional sailing membership, like www.Sailtime.com, and spare yourself the agony of "should I or shouldn't I?" This way, you can enjoy sailing without worrying about surveys, re-sale values, and all the other stuff you're worried about. It's guilt-free, responsibility-free and as low-risk as possible.

I understand your desire to make a smart purchase, but your insistance that _all_ risks be 100% eliminated, and that the boat perfectly conform to your fantasty, is unrealistic.

You have made "perfect" be the enemy of "very good" for the express purpose of sabotaging your boat purchase. That way you're safe, because you haven't made a mistake.

You'll pop up here every few months, for years, with some new boat that you're looking at on Yachtworld, asking the same advice over and over...but you'll never buy a boat. You'll always have a perfectly good reason not to pull the trigger. Something won't be perfect enough.

Once more, for the record:
I applaud your desire to make a smart purchase, not rushing headlong into a project, but you're paralyzed.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

BubbleheadMd said:


> I've sat quietly through all of this, and I'll say that you've completely crossed the line of being a "thoughtful, and frugal shopper" into total paralysis.
> 
> You've built a list of impossible-to-satisfy criteria, along with the equally impossible criteria that this _entire_ list must be satisfied. It seems that you're more in love with the idea of boat shopping, than boat ownership or any actual sailing.
> 
> ...


Ouch

I respectfully disagree. ( which is a first as we usually are on the same page)

I didn't see the OP that way at all. She made it clear her priorities of buying a boat were on hold while she initially had to make repairs and finish the upgrading of her house.

I believe she has concluded that she now has the time as well as the financial ability to become a boat owner and is going through the process of whittling down the criteria.

Not everyone plunges into decisions as quickly as others and those of us who are further along in our lives with the prospects of limited future funds are as quick to pull the trigger. A financial mistake in your sixties is harder to recover from one in your 40s. In addition some take more time to make a decision and analyze every detail where others push forward and deal with the details as they face you. neither is the CORRECT way to do it as there really is no CORRECT way. To the person who makes quick decisions the person who is meticulous seems paralyzed. To the meticulous person the quick decision maker acts without enough thought.

I believe the OP has her head on straight and has no misguided illusions of finding the all perfect boat. Being the first time purchaser as she is she is overly cautious, which IMHO is better than being impulsive.

I don't think Sailtime is not the solution for her ultimately and that her sorte into boat ownership will come at the rate she feels most comfortable with.

From first hand experience I know that my wife and I process things differently. She will often want to think about and ponder something , where I am more likely to come to a conclusion faster with the knowledge that if its wrong I will adapt and change course. I have learned she isn't "paralyzed", its just that her though process on something which doesn't REQUIRE immediate decision is different than mine. She is a neonatal nurse so she makes many quick decisions easily, but when it comes to something like a boat, my wife would mull things over a lot.

With PATIENCE I have learned to give her the time so she is ultimately comfortable with her decision or ours.

Continue on Julie.

dave


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

Bubblehead, you take a tongue-in-cheek comment and rant on that?  But if you're so sure I won't buy a boat, put your money where your mouth is. I'm game. Are you?


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

It wasn't a single, tounge-in-cheek comment, it's the entire thought process that drew me to this conclusion.

No, I won't put my money where my mouth is. I'm not at all invested in how your boat purchase or non-purchase turns out. It's not a competition. I was merely opining on your endless hand-wringing and vacillating during the boat purchase process.

It's just my opinion, probably not worth the cost of the electrons to display it on this forum. Carry on.


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## ctl411 (Feb 15, 2009)

Offer what (you) think the boat is worth. Look at the total market to judge this, not just a certain model. We have offered 30 to over 50% off asking, most said yes. Our current under contract is also a over 50% off boat. Bad location is the major reason. Should have it final next week if survey goes well.
Oh if the boat you are looking at is listed by "captain Ed" good luck. I worked on a boat he has for a couple years. Finally got reasonable and down to the price range we first offered but we are now in a higher range of boat. That boat is still for sale last I looked. Still a buyers market lots of boats. Don't fall in love until after you own it. But do buy a boat you can love otherwise what's the point. In the end only YOU need to be happy with the deal.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

BubbleheadMd said:


> It's just my opinion, probably not worth the cost of the electrons to display it on this forum.


At least we agree on something. Next time, save the electrons. Just my opinion.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

" I once bought a new Nissan Titan 4x4 four door pickup for $27,000.00 less than what the dealer was asking."
Considering that even today the Titan LISTS for $30-40,000 and the dealers don't get anything near a 200% markup...maybe you'd like to rephrase that statement? You didn't buy a truck for 75% off the sticker price, unless you were holding a gun to someone's head, or some equally unusual circumstance.


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## mark2gmtrans (May 14, 2013)

hellosailor said:


> " I once bought a new Nissan Titan 4x4 four door pickup for $27,000.00 less than what the dealer was asking."
> Considering that even today the Titan LISTS for $30-40,000 and the dealers don't get anything near a 200% markup...maybe you'd like to rephrase that statement? You didn't buy a truck for 75% off the sticker price, unless you were holding a gun to someone's head, or some equally unusual circumstance.


2005 Nissan Titan four door 4x4 listed with all options at Family Nissan in Laredo, TX stickered new at the time at $53,000.00 it was loaded with a lot of options, including a custom bedliner, installed roll bars in the bed, a sliding bed extender, leather interior, navigation, and a lot more. If you think I would bother inflating the price, or lying about it that is just silly. I spent the time to negotiate with them, and I got it for just a little over what it cost them. I was in the business of buying and selling semi-trucks and heavy equipment and transporting them and had bought some other vehicles from them as well. You are quoting the lowest possible price on a two door, two wheel drive, with a short bed and no options. Price one out at your local Nissan dealer loaded like that, you will find it to be more expensive than your $40,000.00 price tag.

Anyways, you really need to look at the margins on new vehicles, they are usually stickered at something about 200 to 225% of what the vehicle costs the dealer when you throw in the manufacturer to dealer volume discounts, some dealers sticker low, some do not. The sticker is not the price anyone pays if they have 25% of a brain.


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

The first question is, do I really want to own a boat, or do I just like the idea of owning a boat? I don't see where you've actually answered that question yet. Especially to yourself. And a cost/benefit analysis won't really give you the answer. Because that choice is actually more an emotional one, than a pragmatic one (if the boat is to be anything more than a toy).

Is owning a boat a passion that must be sated, or a desire that would be nice to fill? Is owning a boat a need for happiness, or just an item on a bucket list of things that are suppose to make you happy?

Once you decide, if you do, that you really want to own a boat, you'll find a way to buy one ... not reasons not to.


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## fryewe (Dec 4, 2004)

PBzeer said:


> Once you decide, if you do, that you really want to own a boat, you'll find a way to buy one ... not reasons not to.


This.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

JulieMor said:


> ...... We may have a motivated seller. But in the end, _it's are we willing to commit to the cost of ownership?_ that will determine if we will become boat owners.......


Some have reacted pretty harshly to this statement, which I do not intend to do.

I think it is very wise to detail a realistic cost of ownership and determine if it fits within one's budget.

However, I've never known anyone to use it to determine whether they are willing to commit to the cost of ownership at all. That's always long committed by this stage and they're only determining how much cost they can endure and whether a particular boat is within reach.

There does seem to be some sign of waffling. Maybe rent for a season and find out?


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

To be clear, nothing I've said here was intended to convey I'm looking for reasons not to buy a boat. As questions arise from members, I answer them. There was never any intention of looking to find reasons not to buy.

This is the first time I am actually beginning the process of finding a boat to buy because it's the first time I've been financially able to do it. Thus my initial question about making an offer. I would never have asked that question if I wasn't serious about buying a boat AND have the ability to do so.

Nothing in the world gives me the feeling I get when sailing. If you don't know the feeling, I can't explain it. I can only say it makes me feel alive and always has, since my first sail 42 years ago. Maybe it's in the blood.

Before I began this thread I was clueless how much asking price vs. selling price vs. lender valuation can vary. It's all over the place. And unless you're a broker, having the knowledge and skills to determine the actual value of a boat just by looking at is rare. But I now have some tools and knowledge to walk into this with.

I thank you all who have helped me get to where I am now, for this part of the boat buying process. I feel I at least have enough information to help me bring a reasonable offer to the table. I'm hoping we can agree on a boat to buy this season.







If it was just me, it would be easy. But when there's two in the decision making process...


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> Some have reacted pretty harshly to this statement, which I do not intend to do.
> 
> I think it is very wise to detail a realistic cost of ownership and determine if it fits within one's budget.
> 
> ...


I should have followed that up with, "Yes, we are willing to commit to the cost so long as it fits within the budget." Buying a dream boat that will strain the finances? No. I won't do that. Making compromises so the costs don't exceed the budget? Absolutely.


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## misfits (Dec 9, 2011)

JulieMor said:


> Sailing - So it has to be able to handle the weather and keep two people reasonably comfortable. Anyone who knows the Great Lakes knows violent storms can jump on top of you quickly. So I don't want to be fearing our little boat will be broken apart when we get caught up in that. And if we travel, we will.


That boat is offshore capable & will hold up better than you will. 
If you can get this girl for 35-40K & she's been kept up, you won't go wrong.
For that price just be sure she's been repowered recently so you don't have to dump another 10K into her.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

misfits said:


> That boat is offshore capable & will hold up better than you will.
> If you can get this girl for 35-40K & she's been kept up, you won't go wrong.
> For that price just be sure she's been repowered recently so you don't have to dump another 10K into her.


If you're talking about the Sabre 34, she has the original engine. And the engine hours stated is 663. Seems a bit light. Most of the boats we've seen in our price range have the original engine. Any offer we make will factor that in.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Wow guys, go easy on the poor woman. 

It's easy to forget that when you're new to this there's a lot to get your head around.

It throws a lot of new sailors that there's really no such thing as "book value" for boats. Take your car to any three car dealers and the actual appraised value will usually be within $500 (extracting that number from the dealer is another conversation). But with boats NADA is different from BoatUS and both may be different from what the surveyor and the broker say a boat is worth.

There simply aren't enough boats bought and sold to get that kind of granularity. Condition varies widely, equipment is all over the place and prices vary from region to region. Really popular boats are sold in the thousands, cars are sold in the millions.

Is $35K a good price for a particular Sabre 34? 

I'd say "good" could easily swing $2,500 in either direction depending how much you or I value the installed equipment.


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## mark2gmtrans (May 14, 2013)

JimMcGee said:


> Wow guys, go easy on the poor woman.
> 
> It's easy to forget that when you're new to this there's a lot to get your head around.
> 
> ...


Actually the price is a little high, compared to several others listed on various sites, but not way out of line. I have not looked at any of them in person, so I cannot say why there are such large differences, but I would have to guess it is that the owner wants to get as much as he can, even in the current market. I know that there are many, and I mean a ton, of 35-45 foot boats out there in the $20,000.00 to $50,000.00 range, a huge difference in the price, and a lot has to do with where you are in the country.

I would say that ragging on her about not buying the first boat she looks at, or taking time to decide on which ones she wants to buy is just mean. I know a lot of people who take time to come around to a decision and then move on the buy. I myself do a lot of research, spend a lot of time looking at what I want to buy, and then I get out my wallet or whatever the case may need to be, and I buy. I may look at a lot of examples of the thing I want to buy, but once I have made up my mind I want something, I always get it.

Now maybe some of you can plunk down $50k without blinking, and if you can that is great, I applaud you for your ability to earn and save, but I cannot right now, not without taking careful consideration of my purchase. If I plunk down the $50k am I going to have to re-plunk with another $50k in repairs and upgrades to get it where I want to be? I think I would rather not do it that way. I would prefer to do it a better way, looking carefully and making a very considered choice, and not spend double my money.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

JulieMor said:


> I should have followed that up with, "Yes, we are willing to commit to the cost so long as it fits within the budget." Buying a dream boat that will strain the finances? No. I won't do that. Making compromises so the costs don't exceed the budget? Absolutely.


Good enough for me! Good luck finding the right boat.

Your other post on needing two of you to agree made me think of a couple we know. This is not intended to apply to you (unless you say it does).

She has been a sailor her entire life. Her new 'significant other' (as boyfriend sounds odd in your 50s), has been a powerboater his entire life. She really wants to get a sailboat (she sold hers after a divorce several years ago) and for him to want one too. We took them away for a weekend earlier this month, with her hoping he would fall in love with sailing.

Now he's a nice guy, but it didn't take much to know it just ain't going to happen. He played along and was good company, but the sailing does nothing for him. I fear, if she doesn't let up, this could become a problem.

In any event, it does take two to tango, whatever your set of circumstances may be.


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## JulieMor (Sep 5, 2011)

Well, we both like sailing, but have different experiences. My SO Sunfished a lot when younger and loved it. I started on a 45'er and made eight Mac trips, one deep into the North Channel, one trip to the Bahamas and one to the Keys, and a lot of sailing in between. All on the same boat. I also helmed club races on my boss's 35'er. Two different worlds, one love of sailing, each based on our individual experiences.

But a power boater and a sailor? At least we're not that far apart. But it is possible to get the power boater to agree on buying a sailboat. My dad was a die hard power boater, back when we called them cabin cruisers. He talked about buying one for years. Then one day he called me up and said he was going to do it.

"Dad! You're going to buy a stink pot!?!?" It just came out.  It was 1975 and anyone who remembers back then remembers the oil crisis. Then I underhandedly threw the gas costs at him. A month later he called and said "I bought a sailboat." It was more a motorsailer than sailboat and I think that's where the power boater can make the move to into the light.


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## mark2gmtrans (May 14, 2013)

JulieMor said:


> But a power boater and a sailor? At least we're not that far apart.


Yeah that would be like a Protestant and a Catholic in Northern Ireland, heck wars have been fought for less LOL.


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