# Outboards



## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

On this site I’ve argued for 2 strokes. Light, simple, can fix yourself, good hole shot etc.....

I was wrong. Last 2 stroke died. Stored it and dinghy inside at a yard in Grenada for hurricane season. They drained gas. Asked they refill and have it all ready when we returned. Any way they got it back in the water with a full tank. Ran that gas until empty. Refilled with 1:50 but strongly suspect they had it at 1:25 or even higher. Ran lousy. Cleaned carb. Still lousy and hard to start. Took it apart and everything carbonized. Pistons and cylinders scourced. Rings shot. Pissed off that the one time I asked someone else to do the mix it ruined the engine. Pissed at myself I didn’t pick up on it before damage done. 

Now have a EFI 9.9hp Suzuki. Got it for 30% less than I’d pay in the states at Rodney Bay but new 2019. Apparently not popular in Caribbean. Heavy c/w prior tohatsu but uses no gas and runs great. While in states got every spare/filter I can think of to bring back. 

Please share your outboard experiences. So far merc sucks, tohatsu is very sensitive to mishandling, Yamaha is fine (big theft target) but expensive as is Honda, and for present I’m a Suzuki fan. What’s your opinion?


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Still running my 80s vintage Mariner/Yamaha 2-hp 2-stoke.


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## Telesail (Dec 28, 2011)

We are currently running an ePropulsion Spirit on an F-Rib and, outside of a couple of really bad runs in Newport Harbor when the wind and chop got up, it has ticked all the boxes. Battery and engine leg both light enough for my wife to mount and unmount herself without help (although obviously I help, because I am not stupid...)

Our original plan was to 'steal' the 2 stroke from our old boat before selling but have found the electric meets all our needs.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

My experience with our 2007 Johnson 4 stroke 15 hp OB has been unbelievable. I expected 2, maybe 3 years out of it, but it has been running very dependably on a daily basis since 2009. Gas mileage is outstanding, so much so that we almost run out of gas because we fill the tank so rarely we forget we even need to. Not mixing gas and oil (and keeping the oil aboard) is way worth the extra weight of the engine. 
I'd *NEVER* go back to 2 stroke.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

If carbonized, I would have thought there was too much oil (which is what your ratios suggest too). This should not have scored the cylinders. Confusing scenario. 

Was the engine fogged before it sat in the humid climate for a season. Hard to do, if fuel is run dry.

Anyway, I hate mixing fuel. I'll take a four stroke any day. Our current Yamaha 9.9 has been terrific. Nothing more than pre and post season maintenance, fill the tank and go. Yamaha says not to drain fuel, rather just fog with their fogging oil, until you choke it out. Obviously, this impacts the fuel in the bowl too.

I've had Mercurys and Tohatsus that were fine. Weird little problems, but nothing that would cause me to steer clear. At the end of life (10 years) on my last Tohatsu 18, one of the cylinders lost compression, but it still started and ran okay. Got me home. That's what really matters.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Had a four stroke Tahatsu for 5 years. Nothing but issues with the carburetor. Before that a two stroke Johnson which was indestructible. Last 4 years using a propane 5 hp Tahatsu. Best thing since sliced bread.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Ive had my 6 hp 4 stroke tohatsu for 6 years. Now that i’ve learned that moisture was getting into the spare can from the nozzle causing gas problems so capped the nozzle i haven't had a problem with it for the last months.

But im planning on replacing with a 9.8/hp tohatsu 4 stroke electric start. I would have gne efi if it didnt weigh so much more.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Major issue with outboards is ethanol fuel. First, it's hydroscopic and will cause the fuel to take on water, even out of the atmosphere. Second, it can phase separate. If you get past those, it's a very effective solvent, which works great on all your plastic and rubber parts in the motor. 

Dumbest additive ever. Total agri-business scam.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Yes the efi adds weight but you also get electricity off the engine for running lights. Cool tech as there’s no battery. Trying to decide which running lights to buy. It a walker bay with the fold down stern on it last legs but good for a year or two more.
Any thoughts? 

Have yet to see anyone with electric of any brand happy with it in the Caribbean. It’s the range and difficulties coming in against waves that’s the problem. Really like the idea of not having gasoline on the boat but it’s not there yet. 
Merc I had had stupid controls. No way to vary choke or throttle effectively when starting. Lousy controls to fix or pull up engine. Have occasions to run dinghy onto the beach. PIA with that engine. Several plastic parts in linkage. They would break and it was hard to find spares.
New tohatsu 2 strokes are real light. Older ones not so much. Think they use the same block for the 9.9 as the 15.
Yamahas just disappear down here. Don’t know why they’re the #1 target for theft.
There’s a nifty filter you can use poring gas (or diesel) out from a can. Takes out particulate down to 10 micron and water. Have good internet so will google and post if I find it. Use for dinghy and filling racors after filter change.


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## Telesail (Dec 28, 2011)

outbound said:


> Have yet to see anyone with electric of any brand happy with it in the Caribbean. It's the range and difficulties coming in against waves that's the problem. Really like the idea of not having gasoline on the boat but it's not there yet.


Until a year ago, I would have agreed entirely but you have seen one now.... I am in the Caribbean and very happy with it.

I suppose if I needed to speed around anchorages throwing wakes, like so many people seem to, or anchor more than a mile from shore then it would fail to meet my needs but the nearest I have come to regretting the decision was dinghy-ing round from Caneel Bay to Cruz Bay to check in to the USVI when the wind was up and even then, the hood on the dinghy kept us dry in the face of the chop.


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

2 stroke 15hp Yamaha. Rock solid. 

EFI is not for me as I like to fix things myself. They do run great though and sip fuel. 

Massey Yacht Sales - Eastern Florida


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

I have 2 small outboards...6hp 4s suzuki and 4hp 2s yammy
The yammy burns 2 to 2.5 x the fuel of the suzuki but it is what ive used for the past year.
It always, always starts and runs well.

If i needed a bigger motor i would be all over efi...with a smaller 2s backup.

Supposedly..suzuki is the current top choice for charter fishing boats in florida. 
Quiet and efficie t


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

outbound said:


> Yamahas just disappear down here. Don't know why they're the #1 target for theft.


Could be for the same reason they are the most popular smaller OB on the planet. The *most* reliable, trouble free OB made, with competent service and parts availability almost anywhere. The theft problem is the *only* reason I can think of *not* to have a Yamaha OB.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

“Until a year ago, I would have agreed entirely but you have seen one now.... I am in the Caribbean and very happy with it.”


Up in Maine may spend a whole day exploring using the dinghy. When in Barrington would use the dinghy to go up the Providence river for a concert or other activity. Haven’t been for two years but would anchor out in caneel bay and dinghy over to Cruz to clear or shop or have dinner. Like in Maine when in the grenadines will anchor one place and dinghy to several places in succession to hike or snorkel. Even in north south will anchor in the far eastern portion and dinghy to the far western part to do laundry. Like anchoring on the French side of St. Martin far way from the canal but it’s real common to go to the lagoon.Everywhere tend to put big miles on the dinghy and load her up with quite some weight either in stores or people. Im glad it’s worked for you but seem to find one way is easy with wind and seas but the other way is difficult. With my luck it’s often both ways are difficult.
Although electric engines are torque monsters c/w internal combustion they sure use up those amps when called upon to do so. So range remains a difficulty. Speed is another concern. You’re in the middle of a project and need that one thing to get before the chandlery closes. Or don’t want to pay overtime fees to customs and immigration. Or don’t want to return in the dark. We’re fine with not busting up the anchorage but sometimes speed is a real good thing as well.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Answering your initial question; I have a 2005 vintage Mercury 3.3hp 2-stroke. I have been using and maintaining it since 2010 and had no problems that were not my own doing (shear pins). I run it in a barrel of fresh water every fall, fog it, drain the fuel and change the lower unit oil, and put it to bed. In the summer, it sits on the back of my dinghy, or is on the pushpit mount when not in use. I NEVER run fuel with any ethanol in it. It always starts before the third pull. I agree with Minne, that ethanol attracts water which corrodes the fuel system, it attacks rubber, and believe that ethanol fuels are a scam pulled off by the corn lobby to prop up corn prices. 

I am the only person that I allow to work on it - or my boat, or my truck or my motorcycle for that matter. I learned long ago that no one will take as good care of my stuff as I will. Also, I am the only one that I can afford. When I work on other people's boats (I charge by the hour) I prefer that they be present so that they know how long I worked, what I am doing and why I am doing it.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

My present OB is a Yamaha 4 stroke 8 hp. I got tired of adding oil to 2 stroke.. My last Evinrude 6 constantly had a fouled carb. So far so good. Too heavy of course... But quiet.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

I have had good luck with Merc two strokes. I am running a 15 hp on my 10 ft RIB. I use the RIB a lot for fishing and tooling around. Up nicely on a plane with two adults and a shorty. I plan on a larger RIB and a larger motor in a year or two as the kid gets bigger and I'll need something that will plane with three adults, maybe a little more room to fish. I will probably look for a well cared for, used 20 hp two stroke.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm surprised that a 2-stroke could be ruined from 25:1 fuel mix. That's what most manufacturers recommend for break-in. I'd expect it to foul your spark plug a bit, but not score your rings. But I'm no expert.

I've had my Suzuki 2.5 for 3 seasons, and zero problems. I bought it because it is only 28 pounds. I don't use it a lot, but that's the kind of use that normally causes problems. Because it can sometimes sit for a month before getting used again, I'm a little paranoid about fuel management. Every time I'm done with it for the weekend, I will siphon all the gas out of the internal tank back into the 1-gallon jerry can and burn the motor completely dry. If my 1-gallon of fuel gets more than 6-8 weeks old, I dump it in the car and start fresh (even though I keep Stabil in the fuel). I did pretty much the same thing with my 15 HP Honda on my previous sailboat. Empty carburetor, empty internal tank (if your motor has one), and fresh fuel are the best way to ensure reliability. However, if you use the motor daily (or even weekly) these steps are probably unnecessary.

The only warning that I'll give you with Suzuki is that they're really ball-busters when it comes to honoring warranty coverage. (The Suzuki dealer warned me of this.) If you're serious about keeping the warranty valid, I suggest you have a Suz dealer do oil changes and all required maintenance. If you insist on DIY, then save all receipts for materials. I'd also suggest keeping a log of your usage and making date-stamped videos of your maintenance. Once your warranty period is up, you can let go of all that nonsense.

Is this the "nifty filter" you're talking about? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SOFLHK
I have one and it's OK. But if the filter ever clogs you have a mess on your hands.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> .....Is this the "nifty filter" you're talking about? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SOFLHK
> I have one and it's OK. But if the filter ever clogs you have a mess on your hands.


I have one of those. It's West Marine brand, but looks to be the same. Serious PITA to use, as it slows the flow rate substantially. I suppose it's fine for a few gallons of dinghy gas.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

outbound said:


> ..... New tohatsu 2 strokes are real light. Older ones not so much. Think they use the same block for the 9.9 as the 15.....


This is a common phenomena, but not always between those two HPs. On Yamaha's the 8hp and 9.9hp share the exact same block, housing, cylinders, compression, everything. Then it jumps to the 15hp and 20hp being the same. The only difference is the fuel porting. Funny thing too. Lest you think you can buy the cheaper 15 and upgrade the carb to the 20, the cost of the new carb is almost exactly the price differential. 

I bought the 9.9 for the step down in weight. My dink will take up to a 20hp, so if I go up, I'll go right past the 15 and just get the 20. Used to have an 18hp and miss it sometimes. 9.9 is more than enough to shuttle 5 people to shore, however. Just not to explore as much.



> Yamahas just disappear down here. Don't know why they're the #1 target for theft.


That's almost a marketing statement. Almost.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Telesail said:


> .....dinghy-ing round from Caneel Bay to Cruz Bay to check in to the USVI.....


I've never really understood this practice. Apparently, you didn't even want to take your own boat into Cruz? Why not just anchor or moor in one of the other beautiful harbors/bays and take a cab into town to clear in? Some tell me that's not compliant, but I don't understand why anchoring in Canneel and taking the dinghy over is any different.

Anyway, the new CBP Roam app is now the way to go for US citizens. No appearance at all. Yay.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Yup. It’s a mr. funnel. Got the next size up. Trick is to not fill past a third up. Also wipe out then clean after use. Had an in line filter in my gas line when I was using 2 strokes. Now it says you can’t use them with EFI engines. Why? Anything you can use?
Haven’t been to USVI nor BVI for a couple of years. Like windwards more than leewards. Probably get up as far as St.Martin or Antigua but likely no farther this year. Found Caneel quieter but no shopping so went back and forth.
Cabs suck. Rent a car and get a bunch done.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

outbound said:


> ....Found Caneel quieter but no shopping so went back and forth.
> Cabs suck. Rent a car and get a bunch done.


Other than the resort, there is nothing in Caneel and it's exposed. I would pick any one of the north shore Bays, particularly Maho/Francis. What sucks about the Cabs? You just stand on the road nearest the Bay and wave one down. Most I've ever waited was 15 mins and as little at one min. From Cruz, there is a lot of them waiting to take you back. What would you get done with a rental car on St John anyway?

Funny story, in Maho Bay, St John, with friends aboard. We want to cab to Cruz, so we beach the dink and I tell them we just wait for an open air taxi to pass. They are both serious Type A personalities and, after only 5 mins, they are getting ants in their pants. I assure them one will come soon. She gets on her smart phone, googles St John taxi and starts dialing up. A cab company answers and she yells to me to ask where we are. I say adjacent to the parking lot on Francis Bay. The cab company tells her, they never heard of it. This goes back and forth a few times, before she realizes she called a cab in St John Newfoundland. One comes by seconds after she hangs up.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> she realizes she called a cab in St John Newfoundland. One comes by seconds after she hangs up.


Great story! Thanks. Both the wife & I got a good laugh out of it.


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## Telesail (Dec 28, 2011)

Minnewaska said:


> I've never really understood this practice. Apparently, you didn't even want to take your own boat into Cruz? Why not just anchor or moor in one of the other beautiful harbors/bays and take a cab into town to clear in? Some tell me that's not compliant, but I don't understand why anchoring in Canneel and taking the dinghy over is any different.
> 
> Anyway, the new CBP Roam app is now the way to go for US citizens. No appearance at all. Yay.


In Metis, we used to anchor in Cruz Bay (before I had an e-outboard) but Pleione draws 8 1/2 feet and so we turn into Cruz and check to see if there is anyone in the one spot we can fit - if that is full, it seems a long way to go to Maho or Francis.

Agree that CBP app is is wonderful - and it works for non-US citizens as well. However, last time in USVI, they had not yet received the training and so we had to show up in person.

Hope we will run into you in the Islands if you come down again since we missed you last time we crossed over - have to be there to bring Metis back to New England as she comes out of charter this May. How time flies.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Like to scare the donkeys. 

Been there enough don’t need any land sightseeing. So just go in for chores. Actually have friends who live there. May borrow one of their cars. 

Other than the national park doesn’t hold the attraction it once did.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

After my Honda BP2 gas four stroke went to the bottom of the harbor during Hurricane Sandy. I bought an Electric Paddle outboard which worked well. At eight pounds I could lift it with one hand while sitting in the dingy. I like to row so I used it only for those days when the wind really started blowing. Recently purchased an Electric Carry outboard from the same company. A little more powerful and had a Lithium battery. It's a little heavier at 16 pounds but, still manageable compared to the 35 pound Honda. Charge both batteries via a small 12 volt inverter off the solar panels. No more oil or gas needed and quiet.


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## OldMan-theSea (May 20, 2019)

I have a 1988 Evinrude 2-cylinder 2-stroke. Smooth, starts on one pull (rarely two if the air is cold & I haven't run it in awhile). My boat is only 23 ft (and 45 yrs old) so it's my auxiliary and so I want it to be reliable. I love the motor but do have to remind myself that it's a 30 yr old motor all original. I burn so little gas (rarely 3 or more gal/yr) that mixing oil isn't an issue.

I run the carb dry after each use (although I used to be negligent on that), if I store it (rarely) I just spray fogging oil into the sparkplug holes, turn it over and replace them (new sparkplugs only after the first running after the fogging to burn the oil).


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Maybe somebody who was bored or interested has made a graph of weight comparing range of elec to 4s at x speeds....

Its about the range...that limitation


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## OldMan-theSea (May 20, 2019)

PS & disclaimer: I also have a 23 ft CC fishing boat (Regulator) for the Gulf. It has a 4-stroke (4.2 liter, V6, fuel injection) and it's perfect. Starts like a car. 

Depends on the application!


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## Telesail (Dec 28, 2011)

RegisteredUser said:


> Maybe somebody who was bored or interested has made a graph of weight comparing range of elec to 4s at x speeds....
> 
> Its about the range...that limitation


Never had a 4 stroke and there is no comparison in range with a 2 stroke vs Elec. The maths is fairly simple. For 1kWh battery (entry level Torqeedo or ePropulsion) at full power (for me that is 6 knots) you have 1 hour and, depending on dinghy you have a range of 6 NM. However, run at half power (for me that is 5 knots) and you have 2 hours for a range of 10 NM.

For most people that is not enough but I have two batteries and I generally do not need more than 20 miles of dinghy range in less than 24 hours. I completely understand that others use their dinghy differently and so e-outboard not for them.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Elec poses increased demands on anchored boats, but not on docked boats


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Telesail said:


> .....if that is full, it seems a long way to go to Maho or Francis.


I was assuming, if one is clearing into the US, they would be coming from the East, maybe north, so Francis should be same if not sooner.



> Hope we will run into you in the Islands if you come down again since we missed you last time we crossed over - have to be there to bring Metis back to New England as she comes out of charter this May. How time flies.


Same here. We were down this past Feb/Mar. Nothing on the calendar this winter, but will be down next winter for sure.

Will you still have a hull in charter with CYOA? Where will Metis go in New England? Personal use?


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## Telesail (Dec 28, 2011)

We won’t have a hull in charter as we are now full time-ish on Pleione (and I am too attached to let anyone else sail her in my absence 🙂). Metis will probably find a new owner when we get her to New England as it seems excessive to keep two boats and she is likely worth more up there than in the USVI. But we face a choice as to where we go next with Pleione.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

outbound said:


> Ran that gas until empty. Refilled with 1:50 but strongly suspect they had it at 1:25 or even higher. Ran lousy. Cleaned carb. Still lousy and hard to start. Took it apart and everything carbonized. Pistons and cylinders scourced. Rings shot. Pissed off that the one time I asked someone else to do the mix it ruined the engine. Pissed at myself I didn't pick up on it before damage done.


I'm not sure these are related. Even if it went the other way, and they used 1:100, it seems unlikely that type of damage occurred in such a short time. 1:25 would maybe smoke a bit, but shouldn't have done so much damage so quickly. I suspect either there was damage pre-existing that finally manifested, or the internals were not fogged and got rusty, which did some damage on initial running at speed.



outbound said:


> Now have a EFI 9.9hp Suzuki. Got it for 30% less than I'd pay in the states at Rodney Bay but new 2019. Apparently not popular in Caribbean. Heavy c/w prior tohatsu but uses no gas and runs great. While in states got every spare/filter I can think of to bring back.


It is good to have spares, but beyond filters and impeller for that engine, you probably won't be needing them.

Weight is always a contentious issue. The truth is that there is very little weight difference between 4-stroke and 2-stroke in this size range when apples are compared to apples. For example, your 9.9 is the exact same engine as the 15 and 20. Same size and weight - difference is only in the computer. The Suzuki 20 only weighs 8lb more than the ever-popular Yamaha 15. But you get another 5hp, and no carb issues for that 8lb. Same for the Tohatsu. But the reality is that any difference in weight for engines this large is practically meaningless because they aren't being man-handled around like smaller ones are. Nobody is going to be lifting by hand these engines on and off a dinghy regularly.



outbound said:


> Please share your outboard experiences. So far merc sucks, tohatsu is very sensitive to mishandling, Yamaha is fine (big theft target) but expensive as is Honda, and for present I'm a Suzuki fan. What's your opinion?


We had a Honda 15hp 4-stroke and it was good. Quiet and smooth. It got rode hard and put away wet, and ran for many years before it just got too tired for our use. Bought a Suzuki 20hp EFI 4-stroke. It has been a very good engine. Not quite as quiet or smooth as the Honda, but uses 25% less fuel. It uses 50-60% less fuel than all our friend's Yamaha 15 2-strokes. The difference in fuel consumption is astounding. One advantage of EFI is that the computer only provides exactly the amount of fuel needed at any given time. When running at constant throttle, it leans the fuel air mixture way back and the engine just sips fuel. We go forever on the 3 gallon tank, and 6 months using it long-distances every day sees us using a total of 12 gallons for the season.

As for what is common where, the Western Caribe has a large number of Suzukis. They seem to be as popular as the Yamahas there. Suzuki has made a big push to get them into the locals hands. I'm seeing a huge number here in the US. But I've never understood that argument anyway. There is very little about a small outboard engine that is brand-specific to the extent that you must find a person trained and experienced only on that brand. As for parts, there are few parts carried by dealers anymore. Everything is drop-shipped because inventory is expensive. One should have common maintenance stuff on board, but if you need something like a camshaft, all any dealer is going to do is order one and have it Fedex'd in - same as you would. Maintenance stuff is easy to reorder in advance, and some of it, like impellers and waterpump housings, spark plugs, and a few other items, are common across several brands.



outbound said:


> Yes the efi adds weight


What would add weight about it? The injectors and other components are light plastic parts, and the computer is small and light. Besides, you save much more weight in carrying around less gas in the dinghy.



Bleemus said:


> EFI is not for me as I like to fix things myself. They do run great though and sip fuel.


Here is the thing about EFI - the fuel system is bullet-proof. No carburetor, and a sealed fuel system. Everything else about the engine is like every other engine. So there isn't anything that ever needs fixing on the fuel system, like those carburetors everyone is always cleaning and having trouble with and adjusting all the time, and the mechanical components are no different.



outbound said:


> Had an in line filter in my gas line when I was using 2 strokes. Now it says you can't use them with EFI engines. Why? Anything you can use?


That's news to me. We have run our Suzuki EFI with a filter between the tank and engine since new. There is nothing in the manual about not doing so. There is also a replaceable inline filter on the engine itself.

Mark


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

In my part-time work with the Florida Dept. Of Environmental Protection we run 2 boats. One with a Suzuki 200 Fly by Wire and one with a Yamaha 200 with standard Morse Controls. In three years the Suzuki has fried 4 circuit boards and numerous little issues. Yamaha no issues at all. Not that that is applicable to the smaller engines but it does taint my judgement on what I would personally buy. 

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Bleemus said:


> In my part-time work with the Florida Dept. Of Environmental Protection we run 2 boats. One with a Suzuki 200 Fly by Wire and one with a Yamaha 200 with standard Morse Controls. In three years the Suzuki has fried 4 circuit boards and numerous little issues. Yamaha no issues at all. Not that that is applicable to the smaller engines but it does taint my judgement on what I would personally buy.
> 
> Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


Really? Those engines have nothing at all to do with the smaller ones other than a brand name. They probably don't even share engineering departments. Many of the smaller models aren't even designed or manufactured by the company that brands and sells them. I understand that it is important to protect a brand's name throughout the product line, but it is useful to compartmentalize into related comparisons. For example, there are no circuit boards to blow on the small Suzuki's. After all, many of these companies also make auto, generator, and motorcycle engines, which have nothing to do with each other.

But you are Suzuki's customer to fight for, and it is up to them to prove themselves. I understand your point and am not arguing against it.

Mark


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

As I said "Not that is applicable to the smaller engines. . .". 

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

Ok, had a Johnson 6HP Sailmaster 2 stroke. Got it gummed up, had to clean the carb. Ran flawless now matter how much I brutalized it (never did a thing to it), ran crap gas and good through it. Sold it to a guy and I kept tabs on the boat, it ran for another 5 years at least with no problems.

Bought a new (used) boat, had a nice evinrude 6hp 2 stroke... ran terrific, looked brand new (it was 20 years old). Traded it for a 2.2HP Mercury 4 stroke, was a POS, carb was always clogging, backfired and ran like garbage, caught fire nearly exploded. We rebuilt it, and it ran for another 2 years on a small fishing boat (with burned cowling). On that same sailboat I finally got a nice 3.5hp Johnson 2 stroke (90s model), ran great, no problems, sold it with the boat, was still running 3 years in (it was a 1983 model Johnson).

Bought another boat S2 7.9, 6HP Evinrude Yachtmaster 2 stroke motor (1986 vintage) gave me 3 years of great service, nothing but fuel and impeller (I think I replaced the pull cord on it. I think the new owner still uses it (was a great motor).

Wavelength 24 came with no motor (I actually forgot the motor for the boat when I bought it, it was a "Nissan 2.2hp" that was the exact same motor as the one that caught fire above - yes same as a Merc, never knew Merc and Nissan were same at a time). Anyway when I got the boat home I bought a new 2016 Mercury 3.5HP motor, 4 stroke. I brutalized that motor. It fell off the motor mount not once, but twice while running. The one time I caught it, and managed to shut it off. The second time it went underwater while running hard hydrolock stop (and I still managed to save it - safety cords are awesome). We managed to save the motor after "drying it out" over the next 30 minutes, and then running the heck out of it with 2 full tanks of fuel through it before we declared it "cured." That motor had to be the best I've owned myself. HOWEVER!!!

The best ever motor we ever owned as a family was a 1976 Chrysler 10HP (9.9 so we could meet the lake restrictions of 9.9hp), with electric start and remote controls. That motor has a legendary status with our family. Dad had it on his boat for over 10 years, it came original with the 70s model sailboat he woned. He gave the boat to my brother who used it for another 5 years. Motor's legend was "half crank to start," with the exception of first start of the season, which always required "2 tries" a full crank,, and a half crank. Never more than 2 tries ever to start it, always started via electric, none of us ever tried to start with pull start, never had to. Ran like a top. Paperwork stated 100:1 fuel ratio, ran better at 50:1, with just a tiny bit of smoke. Quiet as heck and smooth at idle. Never seen ANYTHING run like it, loved to be wide open, remote controls were ALWAYS a PITA to route through the boat, and they did allow the motor to tilt while attached.

Keep your Honda's and Yamahas, they don't seem to be any better for the money. In my opinion some motors are just junk (brand doesn't matter as much as how you care for it).

PS: a new Tohatsu, and Merc (under 15hp) are the same motor. I know redundant info. Yes I paid more for my 3.5hp Merc than a Tohatsu, but I must say it worked well as a "wash and wear."


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

C- been told by several that the components to allow the efi Suzuki to run without a battery adds weight.
The packaging on the disposal in line filters I’ve been using clearly state “not to be used with EFI engines”. Bought a dozen from Island Water World. Have a few left. They’re yours if you want them.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

outbound said:


> ...The packaging on the disposal in line filters I've been using clearly state "not to be used with EFI engines". .....


Could it be those particular filters, as opposed to a general EFI prohibition? What filters do you use? Micron?


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

SailingUphill said:


> Keep your Honda's and Yamahas, they don't seem to be any better for the money. In my opinion some motors are just junk (brand doesn't matter as much as how you care for it).
> 
> PS: a new Tohatsu, and Merc (under 15hp) are the same motor. I know redundant info. Yes I paid more for my 3.5hp Merc than a Tohatsu, but I must say it worked well as a "wash and wear."


One cannot buy Chrysler or older style Johnson/Evenrudes anymore. No choice there when a new OB is needed.

Tohatsu makes all the smaller OB's for Mercury, Nissan, and Suzuki (maybe others) - they are all the same.

Mark


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

colemj said:


> One cannot buy Chrysler or older style Johnson/Evenrudes anymore. No choice there when a new OB is needed.
> 
> Tohatsu makes all the smaller OB's for Mercury, Nissan, and Suzuki (maybe others) - they are all the same.
> 
> Mark


Are you sure? I had always heard that Suzuki made their own motors. The specs sure seem different from Tohatsu.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

colemj said:


> One cannot buy Chrysler or older style Johnson/Evenrudes anymore. No choice there when a new OB is needed.
> 
> Mark


Could not disagree more. You can buy used outboards ALL DAY LONG on craigslist, or facebook marketplace, and they are more HP per LB, and generally run as good or better than new. My point was there are good outboards and bad ones, new and old. It pays to consider an older model outboard, it'll likely cost less over the life of ownership.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

TakeFive said:


> Are you sure? I had always heard that Suzuki made their own motors. The specs sure seem different from Tohatsu.


Oops, I meant Evenrude. Was discussing Suzuki earlier and had that on my mind.

Mark


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

SailingUphill said:


> Could not disagree more. You can buy used outboards ALL DAY LONG on craigslist, or facebook marketplace, and they are more HP per LB, and generally run as good or better than new. My point was there are good outboards and bad ones, new and old. It pays to consider an older model outboard, it'll likely cost less over the life of ownership.


In keeping with the OP's dilemma, one cannot buy these engines in the Caribe. And most people in his situation would want a new OB, not take a chance on a decades-old one.

FWIW, I have owned several old Johnson and Evenrude OB's, and they were pretty bullet-proof. Until they weren't - at which time it was a constant fight with their carburetors, broken/corroded mild steel fastenings and brackets, electrical and starting systems, etc. Once they decide to go bad, there seems to be no way of making them right again. But they will run for a very long time before reaching this stage. Except for the Johnson Seahorse 2HP. That one will never die.

But no way would I go back to these old OB's after experiencing a modern EFI 4-stroke. Much quieter, smoother, 70% less fuel consumption, all titanium fastenings, and no constant smoke and fuel slick out the back.

Mark


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

A post has been removed from view pending moderation.

Thanks 


Mark


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## skalashn (Jun 28, 2011)

Three seasons on my Suzuki DF20A and overall very happy. However my new motor came with small oil leak (eventually traced to busted dipstick gasket), and the warranty service at the Suzuki dealer in Toronto area was just horrible. First they refused to even acknowledge the defect saying the leak was due to "improper transportation". After much argument they agreed to investigate and kept the motor for a week as apparently they could not find the part then attempted to charge me $300 to replace $10 gasket claiming they would not be compensated by Suzuki for labor! 

The only minor annoyance about the motor itself is the location of oil filter, which you can only access by removing side covers.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

I had three different outboards: a 9.9 Johnson (2 stroke), an 8 hp Nissan (two stroke), and an 8 hp Tohatsu (four stroke). The Johnson came with the boat when I bought her; the engine was probably 15 years old at that point. It started well - for a year or so - then became cranky, cutting out at inopportune moments. I also hated that the throttle was spring loaded; if you didn't keep your hand on the tiller/throttle, it would snap back to idle. This engine was the kicker on my Oday 23, so it was very inconvenient to have to hold the throttle with my left hand while I reached across my body to hold the boat's tiller with my right hand. I was not unhappy to replace that engine with the Nissan.

That Nissan was great; started right up, lots of power, fairly quiet. Until it wasn't. Again, the engine became difficult to start, and "little" things started going wrong: the carb needed to be rebuilt; the electric start switch needed to be replaced, etc. After a major repair didn't last a month, I said that's it, and bought the Tohatsu.

I would have bought another two stroke if they were available, but no one makes small two strokes anymore, and I wasn't about to buy a used one. Initially, the Tohatsu was great. I didn't miss mixing the gas (although I didn't find it as onerous as some of you), and it started right up. However, I must admit that I was a bit disappointed. I expected more low torque thrust from this engine. Not only only because it was a four stroke, but also because I had opted for the high thrust prop option. But I noticed no difference between the Nissan and the Tohatsu in that regard. More obviously, the Tohatsu was not appreciably more quiet than the Nissan; I expected a really noticeable difference in engine noise. At idle and very low rpms, that was true: the Tohatsu was very quiet. But when pushing the boat at anything more than a couple of knots, the engine noise was indistinguishable from the two stroke Nissan. A big disappointment. I used the Tohatsu for about a month before winterizing it and putting it away in my shed. When I took it out the next spring and started it up, I saw that the cooling water discharge jet (the peeing thing) was acting up. The previous summer, the thing was pissing like a race horse. Now, it was dribbling out. I took it back to the dealer, who blew compressed air through the line, and pronounced it fine. And it was. For about a month. Then, it happened again. I guess the system is just susceptible to clogging. Something to keep an eye on.

I sold that boat (and the engine of course) last year, so I am currently outboard-less. If I ever need an outboard, I'm buying a Honda or a Yamaha. That's it.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Chef makes a good point that hasn't been mentioned here. If you're cruising in remote places where you don't have the option of just ditching a failed motor and trying another old one off Craigslist then the stakes are very high and you need to pay top $$$ for the most reliable motor you can. You're probably best off buying a new, major brand name motor which you can maintain to the standards that you trust. Due to consolidation of manufacturing and sharing of powerheads, there are fewer options than it may seem in the 30 hp and below range. You've basically got Honda, Suzuki, and Tohatsu (Mercury/Mariner/Evinrude/Nissan-now discontinued).

In the smallest 2.5 HP size, my Tohatsu 2.5 hp is truly unique, as the Tohatsu ones are based on the much heavier 3.5 hp power head. I also like the fact that it has a true F-N clutch instead of a jerky centrifugal clutch, with 360 degree pivoting to get reverse if required. I found this website that seems to give a nice summary of some of the considerations:

https://nestawayboats.com/shop/petrol-outboards/



> In the world of petrol outboards, we sell portable motors made by Suzuki and Tohatsu. Picking and choosing between the two ranges you can get access to the best model in each size.
> 
> It's worth noting that in the sizes we sell (up to about 30hp) Mercury and Mariner branded outboards are in fact mechanically identical to Tohatsu - because Tohatsu make all three in their high-tech factory in Japan.
> 
> ...


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

I have a seagull my father bought maybe 50 years ago. It still runs and pushes a square back canoe without difficulties. All the parts are metal. In fact you can see most of them.whirling around. Weighs nothing. Have no idea what’s the HP. Friend has a garner low rpm diesel in a wood plank on frame power boat he inherited. 
Point being there’s much truth to the saying they don’t make them like they used to. Don’t know if it’s the same with airplane engines but elsewhere-boats, cars, trucks, snowmobiles, bikes etc. it seems like planned obsolescence. If you have a sleeved, naturally aspirated diesel should last as long as you. Wonder if the common rail, turbo, computerized off set in pollution and resource use is greater than the increase in pollution and resource used it takes to make and maintain one compared to the old school make it so it will last forever. 
Yes my efi 9.9 Suzuki is a marvel of engineering but it’s another black box to me.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

FWIW, outboard pee holes will always clog. It’s unavoidable, and unclogging should become part of normal preventive maintenance. 

Seawater has lots of minerals, and when the cooling water heats up the solubility goes down and the water becomes supersaturated, leading to precipitate. Suspended (undissolved) solids may be small enough to pass through, but may agglomerate into clogs when heated up or concentrated as the water evaporates during periods of non-use. 

On my 15hp Honda clogs would form at the plastic pee nozzle. A couple times a year I had to pull the hose off inside the cowling and push a paper clip into the nozzle from the outside. A little pebble of mineral precipitate would always come out. 

On my 2.5 hp Suzuki the nozzle screws off from the outside for unclogging. I do it a few times a year.

This is caused by the physical chemistry of seawater and will happen in all brands of outboards, especially small ones where tubes and nozzles are smaller. Also depends on cleanliness of water where you sail.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I'm looking to "upgrade" from my 58 lb 6 hp Tohatsu this month.

A new carb model 9.8 HP Tohatsu electric start is 88.2 lb

but a

9.9 HP Tohatsu EFI electric start is 104 lb

That's a lot more weight just to not have to clean the carb. I what the EFI, but really now that is a lot of extra weight for something that isn't really that big a problem.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Don L said:


> I'm looking to "upgrade" from my 58 lb 6 hp Tohatsu this month.
> 
> A new carb model 9.8 HP Tohatsu electric start is 88.2 lb
> 
> ...


That isn't the right comparison. The 9.8hp is the 8hp engine souped up, while the 9.9hp is the 20hp engine derated down. The weight difference has nothing to do with the EFI vs. carb.

Mark


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Ive forgotten the weight of my 18 hp. But its just a fraction too heavy for me to lift when bending over, twisting from the dinghy to the boat etc. and there no easy way to get someone to help because theres no place to hold it.

So weight is a consideration.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

You need to tie the OB to the pushpit when moving it from or to the dink. Use a bridle around the motor connect to a halyard and use a winch if need be. Single handing lower the OB to it's bracket is a about at the top of dink's transom. have the halyard tied off to the pulpit bit such that you can un tie from inside the dink. Board the dink and its stern will go down... a bit pull the OB so the bracket is over the transom and unslip/untie the halyard knot and let it settle over the dink's motor board. Tighten clamps, remove halyard and clip it to the pushpit.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Ive forgotten the weight of my 18 hp. But its just a fraction too heavy for me to lift when bending over, twisting from the dinghy to the boat etc. and there no easy way to get someone to help because theres no place to hold it.
> 
> So weight is a consideration.


Most people when they move from a 6-8hp to a larger OB don't plan to man-handle it anymore, and work out some system of davit, hoist, halyard, or the like. Also, they usually don't plan on taking it on and off the dinghy frequently - maybe just before a passage.

Single handed, a small stern hoist is a good system because one can operate it from the dinghy in the water.

Mark


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

It is a major pita to do it solo.
My motors are lite enough to load and unload from the side deck...takes little time.
And lets not talk about using a crane when its rockin and rollin...


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

colemj said:


> That isn't the right comparison. The 9.8hp is the 8hp engine souped up, while the 9.9hp is the 20hp engine derated down. The weight difference has nothing to do with the EFI vs. carb.
> 
> Mark


All that matters to me is the weight, HP, and price. Its $200 to go to the EFI 9.9 from the 9.8. If t was just the $200 i would consider it, but not with the extra weight.


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## skalashn (Jun 28, 2011)

Weight was a huge consideration for us and the only reason we chose 20hp EFI Suzuki as it was the lightest in its class at that time. Even with 6:1 tackle on davits it does take some effort to lift our 10 ft dink with this motor. Friends have a 20hp carb Tohatsu of the same age and it is much heavier.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Don L said:


> All that matters to me is the weight, HP, and price. Its $200 to go to the EFI 9.9 from the 9.8. If t was just the $200 i would consider it, but not with the extra weight.


Sure, I understand that. I was just pointing out that the EFI system wasn't what added all that extra weight.

Mark


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

My 2005 Mercury 3.3 (Tohatsu /Nissan 3.5) 2-stroke weighs 30 pounds with a full tank. I don't need a crane to lift it.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

If your dinghy, rail and davits will handle the weight, id def go efi.
Much better score for a dinghy thief


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

RegisteredUser said:


> If your dinghy, rail and davits will handle the weight, id def go efi.
> Much better score for a dinghy thief


If this is addressing Don's choice, then if he went with the EFI model, he would be best off getting the 20hp version - same size and weight, twice the output.

And he could spend more of that monthly budget on donuts, pizza, burgers, and beer because getting the dinghy on plane will not be a problem!

Mark


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

colemj said:


> If this is addressing Don's choice, then if he went with the EFI model, he would be best off getting the 20hp version - same size and weight, twice the output.
> 
> And he could spend more of that monthly budget on donuts, pizza, burgers, and beer because getting the dinghy on plane will not be a problem!
> 
> Mark


10hp is limit for my 8 month old dinghy. Theres still a big beer, burger, pizza, etc. void from buying it, so it needs to stick around longer.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

9.9. EFI 2019 Suzuki 108lbs.
9.9 carb 2018 Suzuki 95lbs.

We hoist the engine quite frequently. Easier on the davits. Less likely to be stolen locked to the rail. Our davits pivot in and use the main halyard to be raised. We have a dedicated engine hoist so it easy to bring the engine up. Actually easier to raise the engine than the dinghy. Difference between 108 and 95 is just 13lbs. I’m not lifting either without mechanical advantage. But efi engines are heavier.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Going back to my moto days...
If you dont go efi there should be an obstacle you decide to not overcome
Its just so much better


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

outbound said:


> 9.9. EFI 2019 Suzuki 108lbs.
> 9.9 carb 2018 Suzuki 95lbs.
> 
> We hoist the engine quite frequently. Easier on the davits. Less likely to be stolen locked to the rail. Our davits pivot in and use the main halyard to be raised. We have a dedicated engine hoist so it easy to bring the engine up. Actually easier to raise the engine than the dinghy. Difference between 108 and 95 is just 13lbs. I'm not lifting either without mechanical advantage. But efi engines are heavier.


Something is off here. 108lbs is for the long shaft electric start version of the 9.9 EFI. The short shaft, manual start is 96lbs.

Suzuki stopped making carbureted 9.9hp engines in 2014 or close to that, so the 2018 model is the same engine as the 2019 model, and is EFI, not carbureted.

I suspect you saw two different weights from two different versions of the same motor, but different years.

Mark


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## Scandium (Mar 27, 2018)

Bought a new 6 hp tohatsu, but has found the the 3 gallon gas tank that came with it will build up pressure when I leave it onboard (1-2 weeks), even with the vent open. Is this normal? Third time using it would not start, I got really pissed. But found that plugs were wet, and suspect tank pressurized and flooded the engine on first pull. Sitting half hour started fine, and every time since. Now I have to lift the fill cap off before starting to vent pressure. I thought the vent on the main cap was supposed to do that..?


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

You should have a 3 position fuel knob/valve on the engine.


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## Scandium (Mar 27, 2018)

RegisteredUser said:


> You should have a 3 position fuel knob/valve on the engine.


I don't. There's only an external tank. I unplug the fuel line when I leave the boat.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The plugs would have gotten wet, from the attempts to start, assuming it never kicked over.

I'm not sure I'm seeing how a pressurized tank could force fuel through the carborator and intake manifold, let alone past closed intake valves. One would even think pressure would force fuel out the choke first. 

I could be wrong.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Scandium said:


> Bought a new 6 hp tohatsu, but has found the the 3 gallon gas tank that came with it will build up pressure when I leave it onboard (1-2 weeks), even with the vent open. Is this normal?


Unfortunately, yes, this is normal for the new tanks. I too was surprised when we got a new tank, had the vent open and the cap unscrewed to the detent, and found it looking like a basketball after a few hours in the sun. Hard to believe this is intentional behavior, but apparently it is.

The vent is to let air into the tank, and to be a pressure release. However, if the sun is direct and hot, the tank will get pretty round before any pressure releases.

But first make sure you are using it correctly. Besides opening the little vent screw on the top of the cap, the cap is supposed to be tightened until you hear the ratchets click, then backed off just a little bit until you feel the first ratchet stop. Just a bit - any more and you will have a loose cap that can leak fuel.

If it is any consolation, you won't lose any fuel through evaporation with these new tanks. A loose canvas cover over it will help. Our dinghy has a bow locker designed to hold the tank, so it is no longer an issue for us unless I leave it out on deck while filling and it rolls off.

Mark


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Just had this discussion with the Suzuki dealer. Apparently for all new outboard engines the vent on the cap is one way. It will allow air in but not out. The new gas tanks are apparently built to deform and not burst with the increase in pressure as the gas vapors heat up during the day. When unscrewing the cap different brands have different solutions but you can still buy any generic gas can and as long as you use fittings on the end that goes into the engine which are compatible with your brand it will work just fine. 
The thinking was the one way valve will decrease the amount of gasoline vapors in the air. Personally think the whole thing is gross overkill for small dinghy engines as the amounts involved seem pretty trivial.


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## Scandium (Mar 27, 2018)

colemj said:


> Unfortunately, yes, this is normal for the new tanks. I too was surprised when we got a new tank, had the vent open and the cap unscrewed to the detent, and found it looking like a basketball after a few hours in the sun. Hard to believe this is intentional behavior, but apparently it is.
> 
> The vent is to let air into the tank, and to be a pressure release. However, if the sun is direct and hot, the tank will get pretty round before any pressure releases.
> 
> ...


Good to know, thanks. This tank is in a sailboat cockpit so there is a wood seat over it, mostly in shade. I'm still not sure how/if the pressure in the tank can affect the engine, but that was the only thing I could suspect. It has started 1st pull every time since when I bleed the pressure first.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

outbound said:


> Just had this discussion with the Suzuki dealer. Apparently for all new outboard engines the vent on the cap is one way. It will allow air in but not out. The new gas tanks are apparently built to deform and not burst with the increase in pressure as the gas vapors heat up during the day. When unscrewing the cap different brands have different solutions but you can still buy any generic gas can and as long as you use fittings on the end that goes into the engine which are compatible with your brand it will work just fine.
> The thinking was the one way valve will decrease the amount of gasoline vapors in the air. Personally think the whole thing is gross overkill for small dinghy engines as the amounts involved seem pretty trivial.


I'm not going to get involved in the religious debate over emissions. It seems that everyone says, "the fumes from my car/boat/Mack Truck/Lear Jet is just a drop in the ocean compared to that other guy".

However, I will point out that this one way vent provides a great improvement in the stability of E10 gasoline. If the tank is allowed to "breathe" as it heats up in the day and cools down in the evening, then the gas/ethanol blend will eventually saturate with water from the air, allowing acids to form from hydrolysis. The one-way air vent prevents this breathing from occurring, which is especially beneficial in the marine environment where air is only a few feet away from an infinite source of moisture.

Sometimes the engineers actually get it right when they come up with new designs.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The one way vents don’t bother me. It’s the stupid new jerry jug fill necks that kill me. I’ve never spilled so much fuel in my lifetime. The spills mostly evaporateand has to be far more than ever evaporated through two way vents. 

The plastic junk breaks, slips, all kinds of stupid.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Scandium said:


> Good to know, thanks. This tank is in a sailboat cockpit so there is a wood seat over it, mostly in shade. I'm still not sure how/if the pressure in the tank can affect the engine, but that was the only thing I could suspect. It has started 1st pull every time since when I bleed the pressure first.


A pressurized tank does put pressure on the fuel delivery. If ours is bloated, and I connect or disconnect the fuel line from the engine, fuel spurts out quite forcefully during the short time the connector valve is opened. If your float needle is not sealing well, pressurized fuel could flood the engine.

Mark


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

At one time i used an external tank on the suzuki 4s 6hp that has an internal tank.
I found that the external tank did not seal securely a d got water into the tank.
I noticed this when i had the tank on the cabin top and saw fuel weeping between the fuel connect and the plastic tank.
It was not an absolute seal.
The external tanks are not cheap.
On my small outboards i no longer use them.
If i had an external only outboard, i would take steps to protect it.

An internal tank...is a nice out


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> The one way vents don't bother me. It's the stupid new jerry jug fill necks that kill me. I've never spilled so much fuel in my lifetime. The spills mostly evaporateand has to be far more than ever evaporated through two way vents.
> 
> The plastic junk breaks, slips, all kinds of stupid.


The fill necks seem to change every couple of years, so I don't know which one you're referring to.

The one I have, which is about three years old, has a yellow locking collar that you need to turn. Then you invert the can into the receiving container with a little notch that engages against the edge. Nothing comes out until you press down on the nozzle, and when you stop pressing the flow stops and the locking collar re-engages. It works perfectly for me every time, and has never lost a drop of fuel. It's great for my outboard because it ensures no fuel comes out of the can until everything is in place, no matter how wobbly the dinghy is.

I can't vouch for any of the other designs, but this one is great.

Sometimes the engineers actually get it right when they come up with new designs.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I have had several versions of the yellow twist collar and the notch. Glad yours is working for you, but it's abundantly clear the engineers did not get this right. Maybe for you. 90% of people I know, ashore and filling their dinks, report these contraptions to break. In my case, the yellow collar sticks from time to time, since it is plastic junk. Then it breaks and doesn't unlock anything, but fuel seem to figure out how to leak out of it.

The only one I've had that lasted any length of time was one that has a thumb lever that must be held down to allow fuel to exit the spout. It's a simple on/off lever. The downside to this one is that the nozzle can not be inserted into the can, during storage. It's permanently attached that way. I use a one gallon size for my diesel fuel filter top up supply. 

I have no objection to the spill proof concept. It can be helpful, if trying to position a full tank over an awkward opening. However, on average, they are not doing their intended job. The engineering is cheap and ineffective. For that matter, I'd like to see some science that measured the amount of spillage or evaporation that caused the need for these. I'll bet the net is zero or worse, with these new cans. We just wasted time and money on feel good. Make them optional and let the consumer decide, if the engineering good enough. No one wants to waste fuel, clean up a spill or set their hot lawnmover on fire. If they worked, they would be in demand.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

I use one of those shaker syphon hoses to transfer fuel from jugs to tank. No need to worry about the spout design, and easier on the back.

Mark


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Most the clever designs don't work very well. I prefer to use a funnel with a very large bowl and which I tie to a stanchion or life line. The I don't need a spout and... at least on my boat can sit comfortably and braced on the cockpit coaming and lift the 5 gal container with two hands and pour it into the funnel. In a seaway this is challenging and if possible that's not the time to add fuel. If need be I flatten the boat, do the fuel transfer and then resume the course. YMMV


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Object to carrying fuel on deck in any form except in a bladder prerigged for easy transfer before leaving. Even then suboptimal c/w having adequate tankage. 
Just had a 1g jerry break and stain the topsides. Used it to top off racors when underway and filter change required. PITA to clean.
The screw tops on the new gas tanks require a bit of training to use correctly. Suspect some never read their manuals nor are shown how to do it. You’re suppose to tighten everything down tight for transfers. Then open vent and one click on the cap for the one I now have. Even doing this when you go to reattach the hose to the engine it’s common for gasoline to spurt out. Just dumb. Have taken to unscrewing the cap altogether and then there’s no pressure. Then put it back on. When doing it the way manual suggests it spurts and that gas evaporates. Probably as much vapor is released as the device is intended to prevent. Gas tank is removed when engine is removed. Assume gas is pressurized for many people. We crack the screw top before starting in the morning.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

SanderO said:


> Most the clever designs don't work very well. I prefer to use a funnel with a very large bowl and which I tie to a stanchion or life line. The I don't need a spout and... at least on my boat can sit comfortably and braced on the cockpit coaming and lift the 5 gal container with two hands and pour it into the funnel. In a seaway this is challenging and if possible that's not the time to add fuel. If need be I flatten the boat, do the fuel transfer and then resume the course. YMMV


Get one of these and you won't need to lift the container, nor worry about rough conditions. Just stick the shaker end of hose in container with fuel, the other end in the container to be filled, and give it a couple of shakes to start the transfer.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/performance-tool-shaker-siphon-hose

Mark


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## PGandW (4 mo ago)

colemj said:


> A pressurized tank does put pressure on the fuel delivery. If ours is bloated, and I connect or disconnect the fuel line from the engine, fuel spurts out quite forcefully during the short time the connector valve is opened. If your float needle is not sealing well, pressurized fuel could flood the engine.
> 
> Mark


I know I'm reviving an old thread but....
Bought a Stuart Mariner (19ft) this year, and bought a 2001 Honda 5HP to power it. The seller offered me a beat-up old metal tank with it, but I declined. Didn't want to take a chance on dirt in the tank and/or hose. Went and bought a new plastic 3 gal tank and hose at West Marine. Ran into the same one way vent issues, and the spraying of gas when connecting the hose at either end.

My solution was to install a 1/4 turn ball valve on the tank just in front of the hose connector. Shut the valve off when connecting hose or not using tank eliminates the spraying. Just turn valve on when ready to start motor.

Carb on 5hp Honda is known for small orifices for great fuel economy, but will easily gum up. To keep carb clean and motor running great I:

run ethanol-free gas (60 cent/gal premium in my locale). I also run the ethanol-free in my lawn tractor and any gas engine besides car.
run motor dry at end of each day. Turn ball valve off at tank and run until motor quits (about 5 full min). Gives me time to start covering sails.
only use choke on 1st start of day, keep engine at idle - and choke only on 1st 2 pulls. No choke for any subsequent starts on same day. Choke is hardly needed during summer temps. If carb is clean, idle is around 1100 RPM. Do not need to add throttle to shift, the high idle prevents stalling under load.

just my experiences
Fred W
Yeopim Creek off Albemarle Sound, NC
Mariner #4133 SweetP


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