# Thoughts on 1976 Hunter '30



## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

Well it's that time of year again.

I've found two boats in my neck of the woods that can probably be had for the amount of money I can probably lay my hands upon. 

The boat would be used for day sails and the occasional weekend (2 nights max) by myself and my wife; with the likelihood of one other adult and possibly a small child.

We would be sailing either Cayuga or Seneca Lake in the NY Fingerlakes.

My first choice is a 1976 Hunter boat that has a sign on it saying it's a '29 My research tells me there was no '29 in 1976; but the listing photos of Hunter '30's from that period match exactly; so that is what I believe it is. (I've not been aboard this vessel yet.)

From the ground it looks sound. Rudder, keel, shaft, cutlass bearing, all look pretty good. Roller furling rig on the head-sail looks pretty new. Pedestal Steering. Probably the original Yamaha 12 hp diesel, from what I've been reading.

Any comments on the comfort level with the Hunter '30?

My second choice is a similar era (1974?) Catalina '27.

The Catalina looks rode hard and put up wet; but can probably be had for a song. The hull looks good, apart from a gouge about 8" long above the water line that has gone through the gel-coat and into at least one layer of mat. It appears fresh and dry, so I expect that is a repair I can do myself.

The standing rigging looks new, the running rigging, ok.

The tiller arm is rotted and needs to be replaced.

I love the V berth , perfect for Smurfs

Having read all the reviews I can on both boats I am leaning towards the Hunter.

I know recent vintage Hunters are poorly regarded on this forum; but I seem to recall some comments speaking more favorably of the older ones. Am I correct?

I know all of the standard look-outs of a boat of this age; but can anyone speak to some out of the ordinary things that are know for either of these boats?

I'm trying very hard to be as objective as possible about every boat I look at; but I _really_ want to get on the water this season.

Anything you guys could add would be of help.

Thanks, Fred


----------



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

All other things being equal...go for the Hunter...they were built fine in the 70's!


----------



## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

The Hunter is a better boat in that era.


----------



## ScuzzMonkey (Jun 26, 2006)

I have a '77 Hunter 33... I have no complaints with either her construction or her performance and I imagine the 30s were built and would perform similarly.

Things to look out for on the Hunter would be the holding tank (they used bladder tanks as original equipment in many of them; if it hasn't been replaced already you'd probably want to do so), the mast step, and the binnacle/steering quadrant mounting. For the latter two items, the original installation was done with plywood reinforcement; a lot of them have since been re-done with solid fiberglass but if the one you're looking at hasn't, again, it's probably something you would end up doing (or regretting not having done  ).

I don't mean to sound negative, those are just particular things to look for. My boat had most of those refits completed by a previous owner, and I'm extremely happy with her. Points well, reasonably comfortable at anchor and under way, and easy to handle in most conditions.

Not to plug a competing site or anything, but Sailboatowners.com has a LOT of owner reviews for both Hunter and Catalina models of all vintages... it's worth a read through them for the models you're looking at to get a feel for what common complaints might be.


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

From my one experience wihth a late '70 Hunter 30, ( back when it was new at that) make sure there aren't any little set screws in the bilge..say for a float switch. If a half inch screw like such backs out, the boat will fill with water and sink...just my one personal experience.

Go for the Catalina by a mile.


----------



## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

Having had two Hunter 30's in my family and having spent a lot of time on Catalina 27's, I would say that the Hunter 30 of that era is way better constructed, and has a much nicer interior layout. The Hunter is also a better sailing boat pretty much on all points (except that the Catalina with its big masthead spinackers and comparatively light wieght is very competitive downwind). Either boat would be good on either Cayuga or Seneca Lake. 

Jeff


----------



## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks Everyone!

That all pretty much bears out my first impressions. I've really got to get onto the Hunter for anything more.

I'll be talking to the current owners of both boats this week to try and get more information; but at this point I think I'll be pursuing the Hunter more vigorously.

I have some concerns about the Catalina.

>It was reported to me by a fellow owner in the Marina that the boat was sailed daily up through last summer. (a plus)
>>It is now in an estate sale, so you can read into that as is fit. So; the boat was put up at the end of last season and not covered; probably minimal winterization. (a big potential negative)
>>>It is FILTHY!!!!! Not that I mind applying a little elbow grease; but I wonder what that indicates the state of care by the PO in his twilight years. (a big potential negative)
>>>>The tiller arm is rotten through. Not that this is a big or overly expensive fix; but it seems to me that the rot is way more than would have developed over one winter. I fail to see how it could have been sailed in that condition.
>>>>>The very poor access Atomic-4 looks extremely dirty. If my engine looked like that it would indicate that I'd not touched it in at least several seasons. (again, reported that it ran fine at decommissioning)
>>>>>>Cutlass bearing is shot. There is easily an eighth inch of play.
>>>>>>>First impression of sails, rigging, and winches is that they are in A+ condition.

My question is this. How much might you be willing to pay for this vessel based on the information I've provided? Or would you walk away. Better condition models on YachtWorld appear to be selling from $5k to around $9k

For the record, the wife (inexplicably) seems to like the boat; and actually sees the need for work as a plus, as in learning experience. I have a more experienced eye in being able to truly understand what is likely to be in front of us.

The real advantage of this boat would be that it is likely to be inexpensive to purchase (not counting later boat $), and that it is located where we need it to be. The same two issues apply to the Hunter as well, maybe a little less so in the purchase price; remains to be seen.

Thanks again for your help,
Fred


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

One factor to consider in my mind would be freshwater vs. salt. It's entirely possible that the rigging on the Hunter, if its entire life has been on a lake, is original, which may be a consideration. On the other hand, it will, if it has been reasonably maintained, have less wear on the engine and winches than a salt-water boat of the same age.

As for Hunters, I think they fall into three categories: not bad/average, badly built, and badly designed. My sense is that the mid-70s Hunters were OK in the same way as a mid-70s Pearson was OK, and for daysailing on an inland lake, it would actually be a nice and spacious boat. For more than fair-weather coastal sailing on the ocean, maybe not so much at this point.

A Catalina 27 is a considerably smaller, and likely crappier, boat, particularly if it looks it at this stage.

I will admit my opinion of Hunters is greatly influenced by having seen one dropped and smashed, seen a couple out of control in 25 knots, and having looked in the bilges of a few at dock. The only recent Hunter I liked conceptually (because I wouldn't take "build quality" as a given) was the Hunter HC50, which struck me as a very nice boat, but I would imagine found few takers.


----------



## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

If you need a tie-breaker - the Hunter has a diesel and the Catalina has a gas A4, that makes the Hunter the better choice.
Just an FYI, most of the Hunters in those years came with Yanmar 2QM series diesels, not Yamahas.


----------



## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Given the age and condition...the Hunter would probably be the way to go, barring any surprises.


----------



## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

I'm not for or agin either boat. The 30ft hunter is a much larger boat than the 27 catalina. 
(former owner of a C27 here)

that being said...
Don't discount the "crappy" (dirty) boat. a couple of cans of clabber girl and some soft scrub and a nylon stiff floor brush does wonders. quickly. 

Don't shy away for the A4 either. It has about double the HP of a yanmar, and I've been on both, and the A4 pushes the hell a heck of a lot easier than the diesel in a 30ft boat does.


----------



## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

*Updates, Updates; with photos*

Ok. I've pretty much eliminated the Catalina '27. It's just too small inside.

I'm focused on the Hunter '30. Spoke with the current owner today; took a closer look, and after some extensive online research; have a few more questions.

What I found out: I spoke with the widow of the PO. She knew very little; but I found out there is a possible family connection, so there may be a little wiggle room making it easier for me to get into this boat.

The year is not known exactly, she thinks it's a 1976. From my research it is no earlier than 1976, no later than 1978.

Ran my hand along the shrouds, no fishhooks, etc. they feel solid. Deck hardware is firmly set, no apparent looseness; but they do not _look_ to have been re-bedded. (no ooze, etc.) If they were, it was an A+ job.

All of the instruments look to be original and in need of replacement.

There are two things that I question. The first is the keel joint. See the two pictures below:



















I have seen a LOT of boats in my area marinas with this same apparent issue. Any insights?

The other is a less common issue from my observations; but I've read about it in a number of reviews of Hunters of this era. Apparently the hull "works" around where the shroud chainplates reside; and it "dimples" the hull a little bit.

On either side of the hull, right where the chainplate would be for the lower shroud; ther eis a slight deformation of the hull.

It is approximately round, about 12" across, and dimples in about 3/8" at the deepest.

Take a look:




























When I was there the other day I only noticed it on the starboard side, and I thought it was the result of a crappy docking job. After seeing the issue on a couple of owner reviews I went back and found it at the same place on the port side.

It feels solid. I have not been able to get below to look it over yet. I got to "look" down below; man what a mess.

One review I read suggested possibly moving the chainplates to the outside of the hull; with proper backing plates; any opinions?

I know, there are a LOT of '30 boats out there; but I'm pretty sure I can get this one for 1/2 to 1/3 the $ of comparables. I'm sorely tempted to get it and make the best of it in any case, we'll see.

Thanks again for all of your help,
Fred


----------



## SVSnap (Mar 5, 2007)

*keel joint*

I just rebedded and reinforced the keel joint on my Catalina 30. It wasn't too bad really, West Systems helped a lot and made it pretty straight forward. But the quantity of water that oozed out of that one in the pic... it's gotta be coming from somewhere. There's either a huge cavity in there or free communication with the bilge or something. Looks worse than the 5 or so blown out but recoverable keel joints I've seen. I think if you started digging into it you'd find something terrible. Can't help on the dimple.... mystery to me.


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

There are a lot of nice 30's around from that area: Tartan, Pearson, Cal, C&C, Ranger, even O'Day. The best you can hope for in buying a boat is to get what you pay for, in this case hopefully you would pay very little and get at least that, very little. The dimples come from the hull being distorted by the rig tension. either the rig is too tight, or the hull is not adequately constructed, I would bet on the second for this boat.


Decide to spend $10-12k and buy yourself a boat you might be able to take some pride in, rather than thinking, "well it was cheap...".

Just my opnion.


----------



## AjariBonten (Sep 7, 2007)

sailingfool said:


> Decide to spend $10-12k and buy yourself a boat you might be able to *take some pride in*, rather than thinking, "well it was cheap...".
> 
> Just my opnion.


Well, that cuts right to the bone, doesn't it?  I tend to think the same way myself; but I sometimes have a problem with patience, to my detriment.

Thinking about it, this boat will probably need to sit on the hard for at least one season while I work on it. In the same amount of time, I can probably save up an amount of money to make the difference between this boat and a well found one.

*Ok, so let's take this conversation away from "Should I buy THIS boat?" and change it to; "What can I learn about this boat to help me evaluate boats I look at in the future?"*

The keel question. Am I interpreting what I am looking at correctly? The line I see is where the keel attaches to the hull? So, the rust could be either from the unpainted top of the keel; or potentially from the keelbolts?

The hull question. I am pretty sure I know what is going on there. The question is; what would be a reasonable fix?

Thanks again,
Fred


----------



## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Those two pictures threw up more red flags for me than the parade on "Stalin Day".

If the keel is iron, then it's partially dissolved inside the fibreglass encapsulation. If the keel is lead, then the SS keel bolts are partially dissolved. _Something _has rusted and rusted badly, and is carrying that rust from inside the keel, or from holes in the bilge to the crack in the keel stub.

The joint has not only failed, I would suspect that if the boat didn't take on water when launched, that the keel might fall off.

If that dimple isn't moving, then it might indicate rot in the knees or the frames, which in that era might have been encapsulated wood...once water gets it and stays in, eventually you have to cut out the mush to good wood, scarf in new wood and re-glass, a job that in some boats involves partial dissembly of the interior furniture, which may be glassed into the frames.

Run away. Run away now. This boat looks finished to me. Plenty of fish in the sea.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*1976 Hunter 27*

I bought a 1976 Hunter 27 from the original owner in 1998. The sails were "serviceable" as the owner described them and the boat had been re powered with a Yanmar diesel. All in all the boat was a great place for me to live for 8 months in the water, and on the hard while I had the bottom sand blasted, triggering the needed blister repairs and refinishing which I did myself.
As it happened another boat of the same vintage and model showed up in the marina and talking to the owner revealed his had the original engine which was a Renault.
I didn't sail my boat much but when I did I found everything to work well, and had no complaints about the way the boat handled. My experience level under sail is low but I have spent a lot of time on power boats. 
Anyway as I think about some kind of "escape hatch" such as a cabin or boat for weekend getaways these days fond memories of the Hunter 27 return. Of course each individual boat must be considered on it's own merits but in general these boats are a very good value in my opinion.


----------

