# Month 2 Expenses & Costs of Cruising



## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

So it doesn't take all that much to go off the rails on expenses. For our second month out cruising we replaced the boat batteries and the autopilot drive twice. This also resulted in a couple of unplanned stays in marinas, which greatly increased our marina costs from the lowly $40 last month to the amount this month (having power is nice ). We are also weak and a marina stay also results in more dining out and access to movies and other entertainment. So these are our expenses for month 2 of our live on the boat and cruise (traveled from Yorktown VA to Beaufort SC):

Food/beer/soda/sundries/clothing/personal care - $657.56

Boat maintenance and repairs - $3,497.63

Marina costs - $855.6

Entertainment and sightseeing - $303.89

Transportation - $234.16

Diesel - $188.85

Dining out - $1,174.82

Storage and communication -$481.11 

That's $7,159.46, which is way over our budget of $3,000/mo and much more than the roughly $2,500 last month.

Your results will vary, but this was the real world of month 2 for us.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Wow, you really got smacked with those boat repair bills, and the dining out part was pretty hefty as well. Good luck on your trip and i hope things settle down for you folks.

Gary


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

What does storage and communication represent? Is that a storage locker back home?


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Arcb said:


> What does storage and communication represent? Is that a storage locker back home?


Storage locker back at home that we spilt with our daughter. Also includes cell phone costs, which last month included a replacement phone after my wife's phone went for a swim and didn't come back. There was also some costs involving mail and shipping in the amount.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

I haven't been able to teach my cel phone(s) how to swim....yet. No COB drill yet on how to recover them either.


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## jerryrlitton (Oct 14, 2002)

aeventyr60 said:


> I haven't been able to teach my cel phone(s) how to swim....yet. No COB drill yet on how to recover them either.


You needed another phone anyway.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Don0190 said:


> Food/beer/soda/sundries/clothing/personal care - $657.56


I'll bet those sub-categories aren't evenly divided, and I'll bet Don himself didn't contribute to at least one of them&#8230;

Don't worry Don, cruising goes like this whether you get whacked in your first year or your 8th. We are taking a whacking this year also. Our first year was dirt cheap, but we lost half our money in the economic crash!

Mark


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

colemj said:


> I'll bet those sub-categories aren't evenly divided, and I'll bet Don himself didn't contribute to at least one of them&#8230;


What you mean Willis :frown

I'm sure I got at least 1 item from each of those sub-categories for my own personal use. BTW I don't acturally keep track of how much I spend in each category. All I do is go through the credit card statement each month and assign amounts to them, so the totals are correct but some amounts may be off a little.


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

So what is with two drive motors? Just curious... and thanks for the update, I really like these budget threads as it gives me hope


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

RobGallagher said:


> So what is with two drive motors? Just curious... and thanks for the update, I really like these budget threads as it gives me hope


First new one shaft bearing seized up after 2 hours operation. I will send it in to be repaired under warranty, but wasn't going to wait somewhere or be without for 2 weeks while raymarine fixed and sent it back. My plan is to sell it on eBay etc after I get it back to get some of the cost back.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

This is why estimating is so hard. We've been having a big maintenence year also, about $10,000 over normal with a lot of stuff breaking.


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## gonecrusin (Aug 23, 2016)

$7,000 doesn't seem to far out of line. We've estimated $81,000 per year for all expenses (food, moorage, boat and health insurance, maintenance, dockage, clothing, entertainment, trips home,,,) The big unknown is breakdowns, even with everything replaced stuff still breaks.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

gonecrusin said:


> $7,000 doesn't seem to far out of line. We've estimated $81,000 per year for all expenses (food, moorage, boat and health insurance, maintenance, dockage, clothing, entertainment, trips home,,,) The big unknown is breakdowns, even with everything replaced stuff still breaks.


WOW -- we have been out 9 years and for the last 7 have accounted for every penny we spend -- and I mean every penny - including trips back to see family, food there - but we do not carry health insurance as it is cheaper to pay out of pocket -- we have averaged $3,100 a month and we have been on the east coast of the USA, Western and Eastern Caribbean, Med and Black Sea 
$81,000 is like oh my gosh --


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## hellsop (Jun 3, 2014)

aeventyr60 said:


> I haven't been able to teach my cel phone(s) how to swim....yet. No COB drill yet on how to recover them either.


Just need to get 'em the right PFD.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ICD5LYM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

RI to Hampton.
Food for crew including passage $400
Top tanks $200
SDR fee $250
Hampton slip fees $210
Extra spares ( filters etc) $80
Hampton to North Sound
Fuel $410
Crew tore out tack but he paid for repair ($460)
Fuel for dinghy contaminated resulting in clogged carb. No carb cleaner on boat (can empty) so needed to pay local to clean $200
Dining out/drinks/sdr party fees $300
Still eating passage food so no boat food expense.
No sun/wind so need to run genset for batteries and water maker. 5g so far at $4.25/g =$ 21.25
Parmalate/O.J/ bakery ~$25
Mooring fees zero for now but will start next month as we move to park in usvi ( have budgeted $300/m) as have guests wanting to do the circuit and won't ask they to pay ( family and close friends) after them moving to Dominica then move up gradually to St. Martin so will have clearing fees. 
Local chip and service $110
Within expected expenses as budgeted from prior year this was done. Smarter about communications so that expense actually less. Think you get better at this as time goes on. Was pretty stupid about expenses initially.


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## krisscross (Feb 22, 2013)

Reading this thread is very depressing. I'm going back to re-read the "Cruising on $500 a month" thread for therapy.


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## gonecrusin (Aug 23, 2016)

chuck5499 said:


> WOW -- we have been out 9 years and for the last 7 have accounted for every penny we spend -- and I mean every penny - including trips back to see family, food there - but we do not carry health insurance as it is cheaper to pay out of pocket -- we have averaged $3,100 a month and we have been on the east coast of the USA, Western and Eastern Caribbean, Med and Black Sea
> $81,000 is like oh my gosh --


We may be out in left field? We think the big drivers for us are boat maintenance $26,000, boat insurance $7,000 and taxes of $18,000. Taxes are based on current rates. How much we choose to draw is a guess at best (we may not take, need or want as much) but we figured 13% for $140k. It would be great to get by on $50k, time will tell. We also include health insurance, Cigna Worldwide is about $7,000 per year for both of us. We will carry health insurance to protect our assets, we don't mind writing a check for $50k for medical service but a $1~2,000,000 bill is not a check we want write. I already had cancer, got the t shirt, saw the bills... it can wipe out healthy accounts quickly.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

$26000 in maintenance and $7000 in insurance is epic. I've had my current boat about 4 years and still haven't spent $26000 on maintenance, including the initial purchase of the boat and I lived aboard it for a couple of years with my wife and son.

It just goes to show, people will adapt to their situation, you will spend what you have, but you won't spend what you don't have. 

Rice, lentils and oatmeal will keep you healthy for less $40 or $50 a month, but the prices I am seeing do not reflect a diet of rice and lentils.

Really, cruising I think will cost what you have. 

This reminds me of the father and son that canoed from Winnipeg Canada up the Amazon River. Was their journey any less fulfilling and rewarding than a high 5 or 6 figure annual cruising budget?


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

krisscross said:


> Reading this thread is very depressing. I'm going back to re-read the "Cruising on $500 a month" thread for therapy.


Makes me quite happy to know what we are getting away with in SE Asia.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

gonecrusin said:


> We may be out in left field? We think the big drivers for us are boat maintenance $26,000, boat insurance $7,000 and taxes of $18,000. Taxes are based on current rates. .


At the costs you quoted you have an extremely large boat or even a mega yacht -- It says that in your insurance and taxes

in 7 years we have spent about $7k in boat maintenance and upgrades and we keep our boat in primo condition - We do between 2,500 and 3,500 nm a year so she gets a work out and we spend whatever is necessary to keep her going.

We maintain full hull and 1million euro liability and it cost us an average of about 1,600usd and we do not pay taxes on her as we have not been in the usa in a number of years -

as for health insurance we are over 70 and if we need it we will use Medicare - assuming we can find a doc to take us -


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## KBuckley (Sep 17, 2008)

Anxiously awaiting Month 3 report.
This is quite interesting as we dream...


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I decided to go through my Quicken expense report and take a look at how much I spent on cruising, which I know is a lot less than any of the above posts in this thread. Now, keeping in mind that I was sailing single handed, I spent a lot of nights in marinas, but more often, I anchored out. I caught some of my meals, though I did manage to eat about once a week in a waterside restaurant. I had some repair expenses, water pump, packing gland, fuel system, and had a custom cockpit enclosure constructed. Bottom line, during the entire year of 2013, which included a trip from Perryville, MD at the top of Chesapeake Bay to Marathon Key, Florida, I managed to piss away less than $4,156 in direct boat expenses, just under $1,000 on food and a bit over $5,00 on booze. (I buy the cheap stuff.)  This translates to $466 a month boys and girls. Now, I'm confident that if I would have had my wife along on the trip the expenses for eating would have increased, but she rarely drinks more than a small glass of wine, which is fairly inexpensive, so the overall cost would have increased by a tiny bit, but not by much. She enjoys my culinary creations, especially the fresh caught seafood that I prepare on the boat's gas grill. 

Obviously, I'm in the Elcheapo category when it comes to cruising, and if my health allows me to make one more trip south, from what I learned on the previous trip, I should be able to cut those expenses by a substantial margin. Though the way my health problems are progressing, there just may be a great buy for a Morgan 33 Out Island in the next few months.

Getting old sucks,

Gary


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

From the 2 months or so that I have been out and in all the conversions I've had with other cruisers I just don't feel this $500/mo thing is real unless: you aren't really cruising and instead are more in the "living on a boat" catergory. Hell a 1 night stop in a marina for a 33' boat like Gary's is going to cost $50, so his "spent a lot of nights in a marina" are hard to do on $466/mo. I'm currently on a $165/mo mooring, which works out to $5.50/day and is almost worth almost every penny, and I know we will spend way more than $500 this month. We went to the store yesterday and got a 4 pack of toilet paper, a dozen eggs, a packet of bacon, a 12 pack of coke, a small box of wine, and that was $36. Look at what things aren't included in Gary's costs. He didn't buy any insurance, no clothes, no communication, no entertainment, no other traveling or sightseeing, no books or movies, hardly any food or sundries, and apparently only 1 beer at a bar. Hell all he did was get the boat somewhere and sit in the cockpit fishing apparently (naked).

The point of my intended monthly costs isn't to have a contest and it isn't for people to try to"help" me. It's to put out what my costs really were as this is a common question and the "it takes whatever you can spend" answer that forums loves to spit out is useless for the planners and dreamers.


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## cthoops (Apr 30, 2012)

I appreciate your sharing monthly expenses and costs. We have a monthly budget in mind for when we head out (3 years, 4 months, and 28 days to go), and it helps to see how much other people are spending (and on what) so I can see how realistic my thoughts are. 

Thanks for doing this.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

I also question the $500/month club and believe they are comparing apples to oranges as far as the definition of "cruising" goes.

No doubt someone could set off on a 9 month ICW cruise and claim a very inexpensive life. However, take off for 8 years working the boat hard over 10-20,000 mostly open sea miles and see what just boat maintenance alone averages out to be. 

Cruising full time and longer ranges, there are periods of almost free living followed by periods of frightful expenses. About the only people we have ever met doing full time cruising living on $500/month are either in a short-term fun camping mode (think young couple whipping about on a work hiatus) or a long-term sad, pitiful mode (think drunks on derelict boats).

The very few people we have seen who appear to live long-term on $500/month we typically avoid anchoring around because they are the ones with crappy equipment and gear that will have them banging into you in winds >10kts and they have no insurance.

But outside that, there is a very big reasonable range that people spend, as shown by Gonecruisin and Chuck5499. We are much closer to Chuck than Gone ourselves.

Don's data, while very informative for new cruisers setting out, is only reflecting his initial teething cruise and not necessarily representative of what he will spend on average over a few years. We were also close to his numbers setting out, but those changed later on to be more in line with Chuck's. I suspect his will also as his diet of eggs, bacon, coke and wine causes his toilet paper costs to plummet.

Mark


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Even at $2 a foot, once a week in a marina for a 30 ft boat is $240 dollars.
"Cruising the intercostal" on even a fill up a week for a 20 gallon tank is another $240.
Eating out, with a couple of beers, once a week? That has to get you to $120
$40-$50 a week at a grocery store for something, anything? Are we eating solid foods out there? Drinking chicory with powdered milk?
Does anyone change the oil, filters, and pop in a new impeller?
Does anyone tip the pump out person?
Toss in some sail repair of canvas work?
Is there some deal with Satan going on?
For the love of the baby gesus stop tearing up that WestMarine catalog and buy some effing toilet paper!

I can be frugal, however, don't get the $500 a month claim.





I GOT IT!; A week not working in paradise = month in the real world. Whew, I was afraid someone was sacrificing virgins or something.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Actually, my budget includes all the goodies, shoes and clothing, dining out once in a while, repairs, etc... As for movies, I watched them on my laptop, which provided me with free communication via Email when I encountered open routers, which was almost nightly. My cellular telephone expenses were very inexpensive as well, prepay at .10 cents a minute through T-Mobile and no monthly fees.

As for entertainment other than watching movies, I provided my own and made a pretty good income while doing so. I carried all my music gear with me on the boat, a Yamaha PSR-3000 arranger keyboard, Bose L1 Compact amp, keyboard stand, keyboard seat, vocal processor, lights, etc... I performed at marina bars and restaurants, tiki bars, and yacht clubs while cruising south. The performances not only provided me with great entertainment, but additionally, the remuneration frequently included free slip rent for the night and a free meal at the location. Some of the places I performed didn't want me to leave and asked if I could spend the winter there. 

Now, I got to eat as well, or maybe better, than most cruisers. But, I'm a damned good cook, and know how to make a great meal out of chicken, fresh caught fish, and various sausages. I got to eat lobster, and and steak, just as frequently as I did at home.

When it came to repairs, I did 99 percent of them myself, but there were a few that I could not perform, mainly because I'm too old, fat and claustrophobic to attempt to climb into a space that a ferret would have difficulty acccessing.

Now, lets talk about insurance expenses. My budget did include insurance for the boat, while old codgers like me are on medicare and have supplemental plans for health, dental and eyewear. My boat insurance is much less than my homeowners policy, less than $500 a year for great coverage through Erie Insurance Exchange. 

My point is, if your boat is in reasonably good condition and you keep up a good preventative maintenance schedule, don't spend a lot of time at marinas, and cook most of your own meals onboard, then there is no reason to spend huge sums while cruising. I met hundreds of cruisers on my trip to the Florida Keys, many of which were long term cruisers. The vast majority of them lived pretty much the same as I did and spent about the same or less than I did. I was the only professional entertainer in this group, but most of the others had some skill that provided them with some supplemental income. Several had sewing machines and made sails and did canvas work. Some were diesel mechanics and had all the work they could handle. There were a couple guys that were doing great fiberglass repairs, divers that did bottom cleaning, you name it and there was always someone that specialized in that skill available among the cruisers.

Of course, there were boat bums as well. They were usually single males that lived aboard their boats, vessels that were akin to unkept apartments in an inner city slum. I saw some dismasted sailboats that were covered with marine growth and bird droppings anchored at various locations, many appeared to be derelict, but an equal number with someone living aboard. But, you really couldn't consider these individuals as cruisers as they just lived aboard in a warm climate. I suspect that many of them were living on the public dole when it came to income sources. 

I guess my point is, why would I spend more money to live per month while cruising than I would while living on dry land? When I'm at home the cost of living includes all the same expenses while being afloat, however, those expenses on dry land tend to be much higher on average. Additionally, many of the expenses on land do not exist on the boat. Real estate tax, water and sewage charges, heating oil, electric cost, driveway sealing, snow removal, etc... are far more than any boat expenses I know of.

Sorry for the rant,

Gary


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## hellsop (Jun 3, 2014)

colemj said:


> No doubt someone could set off on a 9 month ICW cruise and claim a very inexpensive life.


Maybe if they own a magical dog that pisses diesel fuel... "ICW" means "a lot of motoring" to many people.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

i don't have diesel, but gasoline expenses for the trip during the entire period was just under $1,000. The total trip mileage was just over 4,000 miles, so only about 1,500 miles was under sail, most of which were offshore of Georgia and Florida. 

Now, everyone tells me that diesel is far more efficient and provides better fuel economy, so fuel expenses would not necessarily be a big expense with a diesel powered sailboat. I do have a friend who spent upwards of $5,000 running his 47-foot trawler down to Key West and back to Chesapeake Beach and he never ventured offshore. Now, that's a heavy hit. Of course, he made the trip in just two weeks and his engines (2) are GM 1271s. 

Gary


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

The mercury 9.9 died. No where to get a new carb. It rests in the forpeak. I'll sell it when I get back to the states. In meantime can't be boat bound. Got a 2 cycle 9.8hp tohatsu from Budget for $2250. It's awesome. Great holeshot, more noticeable power when loaded down with stores and slips gas.
Averages offered above don't reflect where and style of cruising. Nor do they reflect outfitting. Many expenses are one time expenses for years to come. Things like dinghy engines, watermakers, gen sets etc.
Costs for equipment and food in BVIs are higher than the states but lower than the Bahamas. From what I hear way lower than Europe. Wear doing passages is multiples of coastal. I carry full tools and three spares or more for just about everything. When I was coastal one or two would serve. Mail, shipping and communications are an issue once out of the states. Have two phones. The one from home and another with a local prepaid chip which changes Island to island.
When thinking about budget need to consider:
On the grid or off.
Home country or multiple foreign countries
Passages or short jumps.
Needs so you are living not existing. ? AC, Heat, generator, watermaker, weather service and router, satphone, ssb. 
Sightseeing expenses and entertainment are another level. ?dives, cab service, tours, eating out, sporting events, plays and cultural events.
For most of us it's YOLO. You will spend what you can afford. 
Suggest those looking at any budget first look at what boat, how equipped and traveling where. If it's congruent with your plans it might have some merit. Otherwise not so much.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Arcb said:


> ...I have heard the argument that a good outboard is mandatory equipment for a serious cruiser, but I don't buy it...


Depends on how one defines the manner of their cruising. I like to spearfish, and will often be miles out on a seamount in open water or on a reef off an entirely different island than the boat. We have often needed to go many miles over rougher water to get food, parts, etc. We have been caught out in places with rapidly increasing bad weather conditions where getting back to the mothership quickly means safely - or even at all.

Can all of this be done in a rowboat? Sure. Will you catch most people doing it that way? Not any I have met. I have met a few with rowing dinghies, but none that use them like we use our larger powered dinghy.

The Pardys never bought the argument that an engine is mandatory for a cruising boat, but we have yet to meet a cruiser without one (outside the Pardys, that is).

The same argument can be made for any piece of gear - winches, windlass, radio, etc.



Arcb said:


> ...My point is if people cut down on systems, complexity and size they can seriously reduce costs, if they wish.


Sure, absolutely. This is universally true for houses, cars - anything and everything. The most common evolution of a cruiser from beginner to old salt is to ratchet down the complexity and systems over time, and thus costs. But down to $500/month isn't in that ballpark.

No doubt one can cruise inexpensively indefinitely on a small boat with no equipment, eating beans and rice, visiting only those areas that do not charge customs/immigration fees, and no marinas or visits off the boat.

We haven't met any of those people anywhere we have been cruising, but they do seem to exist in large numbers on web forums.

Mark


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Arcb said:


> My point is if people cut down on systems, complexity and size they can seriously reduce costs, if they wish.


Arcb, I completely agree. It is possible to cruise at much lower rates than presented here. I've not yet reached the ascetic $500/month, but I can certainly live well far below Don's rates. I seem to average closer to $1,200/month. I am in NO WAY saying cruising with a larger budget is wrong, bad or shouldn't be done. If I had more money I probably would spend more.

Anyway, we had a rather lively "Voyaging on $500 per month" thread that ran for years. It's been dormant for a while now, but I encourage anyone wanting to pick up this theme to head over there: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/115073-voyaging-$500-per-month.html


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Thanks for sharing the thread Mike. I'm in no way suggesting voyaging on >$500 a month is bad or wrong either, I spend more than $500/month just on chips, salami and beer. I actually think Don190s figures seem pretty logical.

I just wanted to make the point to the casual reader/dreamer that voyaging doesn't have to be an expensive sport unless you want it to be.

There is an entire movement of guys in Britain that cruise around UK and France in small engineless boats. Kind of an anti-yacht cruising crowd (kind of like Slocum, Moitissier and the Pardeys) . I follow a couple of them on YouTube. It looks like a blast. They sleep in the bilges of their open boats and cook under the sky on their Origo stoves and use buckets for- everything...


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

travlin-easy said:


> As for entertainment other than watching movies, I provided my own and made a pretty good income while doing so. I carried all my music gear with me on the boat, a Yamaha PSR-3000 arranger keyboard, Bose L1 Compact amp, keyboard stand, keyboard seat, vocal processor, lights, etc... I performed at marina bars and restaurants, tiki bars, and yacht clubs while cruising south. The performances not only provided me with great entertainment, but additionally, the remuneration frequently included free slip rent for the night and a free meal at the location.
> 
> Gary


Glad to hear you can do that Gary. However, free meals and slips at the marina, that may come with water, shower, power, maybe even a washer and dryer, while you are working should count towards your $500 a month budget. The vast majority of cruisers are not out there to work. Some may, but getting out of the rat race is the idea for most of us.

Traveling the country in an RV might be retirement for most. Traveling the country in an RV going from gig to gig would be a job for many, even if the boss throws in a hotel room, drinks and meals.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

RobGallagher said:


> travlin-easy said:
> 
> 
> > As for entertainment other than watching movies, I provided my own and made a pretty good income while doing so. I carried all my music gear with me on the boat, a Yamaha PSR-3000 arranger keyboard, Bose L1 Compact amp, keyboard stand, keyboard seat, vocal processor, lights, etc... I performed at marina bars and restaurants, tiki bars, and yacht clubs while cruising south. The performances not only provided me with great entertainment, but additionally, the remuneration frequently included free slip rent for the night and a free meal at the location.
> ...


What? So if I change my own impeller I call that $100 spent, because that is what it would have cost if I was a terrible mechanic?


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

No. but if you worked as a free lance mechanic in exchange for slip rental and meals then I would say you are suplimenting your cruising budget.

Id be happy for you, but I'd also second guess your $500 a month budget if you did it regularly.

I'm not flaming Gary.


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## fallard (Nov 30, 2009)

RobGallagher said:


> No. but if you worked as a free lance mechanic in exchange for slip rental and meals then I would say you are suplimenting your cruising budget.
> 
> Id be happy for you, but I'd also second guess your $500 a month budget if you did it regularly.
> 
> I'm not flaming Gary.


Rob has a point: those of us who don't have marketable skills (at least on the ICW) to barter for meals, drinks, slips, etc., and were tagging along with Gary on our own boat, would not be able to do it for $500/mo.

Gotta admit I'm jealous of Gary's ability to sing for his supper. Besides, he'd be eating out a lot more between gigs if he had my cooking skills, so that is worth something, too.http://www.sailnet.com/forums/images/SailNet_Toucan/smilies/tango_face_wink.png


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

colemj said:


> We haven't met any of those people anywhere we have been cruising, but they do seem to exist in large numbers on web forums.


That's the truth. Internet forums so don't represent the real boating world. After all most "big" forums have a few thousand members and maybe 50 active posters, yet there are millions of real world boaters.

BTW - So far I have only met 1 small "simple" boat, a Bristol 27, that I met in NJ and have bumped into numerous times since then heading south. It has an older women on it and she doesn't have refrigeration, or an autopilot, or hot water, and doesn't trust her chartplotter (last I saw her she had been towed 4 times on the ICW). I don't think she has saved any costs by having the small simple boat because she has to go into marinas more often to get water, power, fuel take a shower.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Don!! What are you doing? You didn't take my cost-cutting advice DID YOU?

Did you plant potatos in the cockpit like I TOLD you to? No?
Herbs in the holes in the tops of winches? No??
Hydroponic lettuce in the aft head? NO???

You are not taking cruising SERIOUSLY!

And why waste money on repairs when you could have enough to buy a new small *Organic* harvester?

You suck.

I hope you learn before next months Spreadsheet.


Mark
PS I doubt you will.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Don0190 said:


> traveled from Yorktown VA to Beaufort SC
> 
> Food/beer/soda/sundries/clothing/personal care - $657.56
> * I would like to see a break up of that. If it was $600 for beer and $50 the rest its OK. Food takes more than 1 month to rationalise depending on the use of hard provisions.
> ...


I think it takes quite a while for budgets to even themselves out. Certainly the first few months are the most expensive; the first year is the most expensive year.
Don't be afraid to spend the money, especially when you are in the USA because most things are cheaper there, except attitudes and beer.

When I say 'attitudes' I mean things like Outboard motors where Americans think its some kind of sacrilege to buy anything but a 4 stroke, which are much heavier and much more expensive than a 2 stroke.

Also, in general, I don't think cruising starts till you are outside the USA, or, for Australians, north of say, Fraser Island.

Did someone ever say: "Money, you can't take it with you"? Well, there no use being 95 and rich either.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Also, in general, I don't think cruising starts till you are outside the USA, or, for Australians, north of say, Fraser Island.


Wow! That is the most structured set of rules defining cruising I have seen yet. Exactly why I give cruising a wide birth and self identify as a sailor, traveller by water and some times live aboard. Too many rules in the cruising game for me.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Arcb said:


> Wow! That is the most structured set of rules defining cruising I have seen yet. Exactly why I give cruising a wide birth and self identify as a sailor, traveller by water and some times live aboard. Too many rules in the cruising game for me.


LOL its not a 'rule'. Just I think expenses alter the you are away from home waters some up, some down.

For example, when I lived 'at home' I wouldn't buy a thing at the Supermarket unless it was On Special. Wait a month and buy 3 months of coffee, etc. But cruising one can't do that as easily.

In respect of what you are saying, 'sailor', yeah, or whatever pronoun you want to use, its similar... if I was 'snow birding' from Florida to Chesapeake each year I would know where every cheap fuel stop is, etc. One can work those into the budget, and they are not inconsiderable, some states are 30cents more per gallon of fuel that the bordering state, etc.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> You suck.


aren't you a slow learner :2 boat:


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> some states are 30cents more per gallon of fuel that the bordering state, etc.


So, with a 20 gal tank, how far out of your way would you go for that cheaper fuel? For me, in a car, I wouldn't cross the highway for cheaper gas.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

ianjoub said:


> For me, in a car, I wouldn't cross the highway for cheaper gas.


You're richer than me. 

Mark


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## Rocky Mountain Breeze (Mar 30, 2015)

Concerning the comments about tallying Gary's expenses to include what he trades for providing entertainment. Do you guys work for the Internal Revenue Service? Cost should be tallied from what you spend out of pocket. I could never even get a cracker crumb using my musical ability but I do have a lot of mechanical abilities that folks would be willing to trade something for if they were in need of the services. I make a very good living but I do all of my own vehicle maintenance, home maintenance, and grow a very productive garden every year, which allows me to cut my annual living expenses considerably. I am not able to take some of the expense as a tax deduction because I do them myself but my bank account is considerably larger because I am not handing cash to someone else for these items. I am not going to weigh in on the $500 a month controversy because I cannot report from experience what an accurate minimal cost is, as the cruising I have done costs considerably more...... but I do know that it is a condition of mind over matter; if you don't mind, it doesn't matter.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Far as this fuel price thing goes:

I got a free copy of Yachting and it had an article about how to save on fuel costs and to save $500. In it they said to not stop at the first fuel stop you came you, but go further into the harbor etc to the fuel stop harder to get to and that the fuel would be $0.05/gal less and you could save $500. I was thinking that I still wasn't going to save $500 as I didn't even use that much fuel a year, but then I realized that the article was telling me how to save $500 on THAT fill up.

Different strokes and fuel costs for different forks.


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## ianjoub (Aug 3, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Breeze said:


> Concerning the comments about tallying Gary's expenses to include what he trades for providing entertainment. Do you guys work for the Internal Revenue Service? Cost should be tallied from what you spend out of pocket.


I believe the idea is it is disingenuous to not count his work as money spent. It would be like telling people you travel 50 states per year for free because you work for a company who pays your expenses while you do sales calls.


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## Ajax_MD (Nov 24, 2009)

Arcb said:


> Thanks for sharing the thread Mike. I'm in no way suggesting voyaging on >$500 a month is bad or wrong either, I spend more than $500/month just on chips, salami and beer. I actually think Don190s figures seem pretty logical.
> 
> I just wanted to make the point to the casual reader/dreamer that voyaging doesn't have to be an expensive sport unless you want it to be.
> 
> *There is an entire movement of guys in Britain that cruise around UK and France in small engineless boats. Kind of an anti-yacht cruising crowd (kind of like Slocum, Moitissier and the Pardeys) . I follow a couple of them on YouTube. It looks like a blast. They sleep in the bilges of their open boats and cook under the sky on their Origo stoves and use buckets for- everything...*


I'm interested in this. Got a link or a group name on Youtube?


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## RobGallagher (Aug 22, 2001)

Rocky Mountain Breeze said:


> Concerning the comments about tallying Gary's expenses to include what he trades for providing entertainment. Do you guys work for the Internal Revenue Service? Cost should be tallied from what you spend out of pocket. I could never even get a cracker crumb using my musical ability but I do have a lot of mechanical abilities that folks would be willing to trade something for if they were in need of the services. I make a very good living but I do all of my own vehicle maintenance, home maintenance, and grow a very productive garden every year, which allows me to cut my annual living expenses considerably. I am not able to take some of the expense as a tax deduction because I do them myself but my bank account is considerably larger because I am not handing cash to someone else for these items. I am not going to weigh in on the $500 a month controversy because I cannot report from experience what an accurate minimal cost is, as the cruising I have done costs considerably more...... but I do know that it is a condition of mind over matter; if you don't mind, it doesn't matter.


This thread is about how much it cost to cruise. Those of us out here working and dreaming of taking off when the time comes look to these threads with interest for information from those doing/did it. If one shares how to squeeze $500 cruising cost out of pocket in a month, but, leaves out the fact that one is working part time to make that happen, it's a bit disingenuous. Like when a friend exaggerates on the size of a fish and I might simply say 'bullshite".

It's not a crime, we don't work for the IRS, nobody is upset. It's a conversation.


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

I agree with Rob. If this is going to be discussed in absolute terms of cost, then net costs after income cannot be used. The same for trade in kind and similar. Otherwise, for some, cruising would not only be free, they could claim cruising gains them money each month!

Mark


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Don0190 said:


> Far as this fuel price thing goes:
> 
> I got a free copy of Yachting and it had an article about how to save on fuel costs and to save $500. In it they said to not stop at the first fuel stop you came you, but go further into the harbor etc to the fuel stop harder to get to and that the fuel would be $0.05/gal less and you could save $500. I was thinking that I still wasn't going to save $500 as I didn't even use that much fuel a fuel, but then I realized that the article was telling me how to save $500 on THAT fill up.
> 
> Different strokes and fuel costs for different forks.


You are simply throwing away free money if you don't take on 10,000 gallons at a time.

These are the tricks you will learn as you get more seasoned.

Mark


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

It's raining so hard the drops are bouncing 1/2' off the water. DINGHIED in with my new 2 stroke to get Internet and charge local phone and iPad. No sun and no wind to speak of other then brief squalls means no alternative energy. Yesterday turned on the genset as phillipi read 75% on the batteries. With it on engine read 15v and house 12.6. Didn't make sense. Victron would go to bulk for < 1minute then absorb for 5-10 minutes then float. Genset putting 20a into the bank. Turned off the genset and turned on the engine at 1800rpm in neutral. Phillipi read 100% in a minute. Turned everything off. Engine 12.9 house 12.9. Figure out it was the shunt the phillipi was reading from. We had a few bumpy days getting here. Nothing significant but enough to loosen connections. 
Reason I'm writing this is complexity makes your life more complex. Suck it up. There it is. But more comfortable. I make water so shower in fresh water daily. When I can't sleep because of the humidity the AC goes on for an hour. When I need to make a call I do so. When I need advice or a YouTube vid to fix something I get it. 
At the end of the day the biggest cost savings item is knowledge. How to fix things, where to buy things, how to do things, how to properly use the things you have, who to use when you need services.
The two main reasons my first year was so expensive was lack of knowledge. I was paid to use my brain not my hands. My world was unseen as we rarely open the skull to take a peak and even then it's often uninformative. Now my world is physical. Even the unseen things ( broken electronics, microscopic junk in the carb jets) are a physical reality. Manuals give 1/2 of what you need to know. You break stuff as you fix stuff until you have real knowledge. I'm a newbie at this and remain impressed how skilled my fellow cruisers are and how willing to teach me. I have great respect for those who choose to live simply but I'd have no wife and rarely if ever see my kids or land friends if I choose that route. So I'm stuck with complexity. It seems so are many of my fellow cruisers.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

colemj said:


> You are simply throwing away free money if you don't take on 10,000 gallons at a time.
> 
> These are the tricks you will learn as you get more seasoned.
> 
> Mark


Yeah I learned in month one that before I head over to the far marina to get fuel because I can read the fuel price sign and it is a better price that I need to get out the binoculars to read the small print that says "with 300 gallons minimum" :crying


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

outbound said:


> &#8230; complexity makes your life more complex. Suck it up. There it is. But more comfortable. I make water so shower in fresh water daily. When I can't sleep because of the humidity the AC goes on for an hour. When I need to make a call I do so. When I need advice or a YouTube vid to fix something I get it.
> At the end of the day the biggest cost savings item is knowledge. How to fix things, where to buy things, how to do things, how to properly use the things you have, who to use when you need services&#8230; The two main reasons my first year was so expensive was lack of knowledge. I was paid to use my brain not my hands. &#8230;


I am so with OB on both this point. Complex systems make life more complex. When they work, they make life-tasks more pleasant and easy. When they don't work you're faced with the reality of trying to make them whole again using your skills or your pocketbook (usually a combination).

I approach this cruising life as a sort of optimization problem (I too have spent too much time working with my head, and not my hands ): I try and match boat systems with my abilities to acquire, maintain, repair and/or replace as needed. And most importantly, I try and match boat systems with actual needs.



outbound said:


> I have great respect for those who choose to live simply but I'd have no wife and rarely if ever see my kids or land friends if I choose that route. So I'm stuck with complexity. It seems so are many of my fellow cruisers.


Exactly! You understand your needs perfectly. You understand these needs mean you require a certain level of complexity, some of which may be beyond your comfort range to maintain and repair. That's when you reach for your wallet. That's great b/c you're matching needs with abilities.

There are those who neither need such complex systems, nor have the abilities to maintain/repair/replace them. They (we) also match our needs to our abilities. This is how we can end up with such a large range of 'Right Answers" to the question: How much does it cost to cruise?


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## snokid (Oct 25, 2016)

Thank you for posting your numbers good bad and the ugly gives us that haven't done it yet some idea what's in store for us...
Bob


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Outbound, air conditioning sounds pretty sweet. 

I know I certainly wouldn't want to live on any where close to $500, on a boat, on land or in a tree. 

I just don't like complex systems on a personal level because that's not what the experience is about for me (for me, I don't have an opinion on what sailing is about for others). The fact that I save a bunch of money by having non-interdependant, robust off grid friendly systems is just a bonus for me. The money I save on gensets, outboards and electronics goes into my other boats and motorcycles.

I'm not judging any bodies spending habits, I'm just observing there is a really big gap between what one wants to make a sailboat go, and what one needs to make a sailboat go.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Arcb, I'm amazed at how little it cost me to enjoy my sailboat every year. Compared to recreational fishing, sailing is dirt cheap. When I was trailering a 21-foot Pro-Line center console fishing boat, powered with a 150 HP 2 cycle Yamaha Outboard, the fuel cost alone was staggering. For me to trailer the boat to Ocean City, Maryland and go fishing just 25 miles offshore at the Jack Spot, where I chunked for bluefin tuna averaged about $300 a day. And that was if nothing broke, the ocean was relatively smooth and the tuna cooperated. Some years, I made as many as 70 trips a year, which translates into $21,000 in fishing expenses. 

In contrast, I usually make about 60 sailing trips each year, and I would be hard pressed to spend $5,000 a year, including repairs, slip rent and winter storage. And, I still get to do a little fishing to boot. 

I keep track of my boating expenses using Quicken, which allows me to categorize each item. And, when I was still writing for a couple dozen fishing and boating publications, I was able to legally write off the boat expenses. Though I retired from writing a couple years ago, I still keep meticulous records of all my expenses, including the boating part. Because I'm now fully retired because my health is shot to Hell, I need to know exactly how much money I'm pissing away on my favorite pastimes. 

All the best,

Gary


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Arcb said:


> I just don't like complex systems on a personal level because that's not what the experience is about for me


I somewhat agree with this, and it applies to us in some ways (we don't have a roller furler jib, for example), but "complex" means different things to different people.

I find diesel engines moderately "complex", yet I know several people who can strip them down, install new pistons and bearings and slap them back together while eating lunch. And watching TV.

On the other end of the spectrum, I don't find most electronics or electrical systems complex at all, but know several people who are absolutely befuddled with their ipod and take several tries plugging in a power cord.

Some people come on our boat and ask about our wifi networks serving all instrument data wirelessly to our tablets, computers and phones while connecting to the internet several miles away, and serving movies from our storage raid to our TV, and stand there like deer in headlights when I explain to them how easy and simple it all is.

Then it's my turn to go all cross-eyed on their boat as they are explaining the complicated water-conservation systems and procedures they have developed (we live on 4 drops a day!), and telling me about the intricacies and nuances of properly setting their windvane steering system on various points of sail.

Don't get me started on how far behind the curve I am when it comes to those young punks and their video drones, editing/processing and social media publishing systems. They claim that is all stupid simple, but it looks like magic to me.

Mark


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I hate to sound like an echo here, but me too &#8230; the writer thing. _I is good with doze wrds_ (or more accurately, I've been a paid freelancer for the past 25 years). Most of my work has been in the sciences (med/sci/tech), but lately I've branched out into outdoor adventure/sailing. I've recently become a Cruising Editor for Waterway Guide, which helps pay my modest bills.

So maybe there is a common thread here. Although knowing how much writing pays these days, it may have more to do with being on the poverty side of the income scale than the fact that we are _hacks-for-hire._


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

The Internet freebees put a big dent in the outdoor writing biz, which is one of the reasons I went from a part time musician/entertainer to a full-timer. Back when I was writing for about 24 publications, including weekly columns the Washington Post, Baltimore Sun and York dispatch, the pay was OK, I made a good living, but I put in some long hours, both on the water and in the office doing research and composing the columns and articles. I thought I would miss all that when I switched to full time music, but I got so busy with the music that it no longer mattered. 

The musical entertainment business is the best job I ever had in my life. I met thousands of wonderful people, I made more money than I ever dreamed possible, and still had time to pursue my favorite pastimes, boating and fishing. Until about 8 years ago, all my boats, 13 of them at the time, were powerboats, ranging in size from 12 to 75 feet. I only had the 75 footer for a little over 2 weeks, then my wife discovered what I had bought, and it nearly ended our marriage. At the time, I had only been married about 4 years, she was 5 months pregnant and made it very, very clear that she was not going to live aboard a motor yacht, or raise children on one. The guy I purchased it from completely understood and was happy to refund my money. That money went into purchasing the 5.5 acres of land that my house is situated upon, and there was enough left over to purchase an 18-foot runabout. 

My lore to the sailboats occurred one afternoon while I was stuck in a traffic jam and sitting atop the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. The traffic was dead stop, I got out of the car, got a can of beer out of the cooler chest in the car's trunk, and looked down the bay. Within a few minutes, a flotilla of sailboats emerged from the mouth of the Severn River under full sail, headed for the bridge. Within about 30 minutes, they were passing beneath the bridge and headed up the bay. I thought to myself, "Damned, that really looks like fun." I had just sold my 21-foot Pro-Line center console fishing boat the previous year and really missed boating. When I got home that night I told my wife about the sailboats and she said "Dammit, I knew it - you're going to buy another damned boat." I assured her that this was not the case, but in my heart, I knew that another boat was in my future.

My wife, knowing damned well that I was going to buy a sailboat, said "Well, if you're going to buy a sailboat, which you know absolutely nothing about, you better take a sailing course." She was working at the local community college at the time, and we both took a basic sailing course, one that consisted of a day in the classroom, and 3 days on the water with practical experience. I've been hooked ever since.

Unfortunately, my health is shot to Hell, my lungs are really shot, and my back is as well. I hope that I can get at least one more year of sailing in before I am too incapacitated to safely sail the boat, at which point I will put the old gal up for sale. I feel pretty fortunate in that I've managed to do so many things that other folks just dream about but never do. And, I've had some of the best jobs on the planet. I still get calls every week from people that want me to come out of retirement and provide entertainment for special parties and festivals, but alas, that is one of the many fond memories of my exciting past.

Mike, if you ever manage to get down this way in the next year, I'll take you and your wife out on the Morgan for a day sail. Who knows, you may end up being the next owner. 

All the best,

Gary


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Ajax_MD said:


> I'm interested in this. Got a link or a group name on Youtube?


Here is a seminar by a guy who is much better and more knowledgeable about the concept than I.


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## Rocky Mountain Breeze (Mar 30, 2015)

Did anyone else notice the similarity between the guy making the presentation and Mike O'Reilly???


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I have never met Mike O Reilly or Roger Barnes in person, but both seem like competent watermen to me. Here is another video of a guy who sailed the snot out of a small boat.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Well, about a year ago bob Perry said "different folks, different boats". Truer words never written.

After doing this for a couple of years now note different impression than the above. See few writers. See a lot of engineers of various sorts, owners of small businesses, ex military or law enforcement and retired or semi retired professionals when on a hook. 

When I'm in a marina see lawyers, financial services and trust babies. 

My experience is limited both in number of years and locale but note the same break in fishing. The reel and rod crowd similar to the marina crowd be it in big sport fish or over powered center consoles. The hook crowd similar to the fly fish crowd be it in waders or flats boats.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

I know it's all great fun to divert a thread about spending $7,000 per month back to a thread about doing it for $500 per month, but its vexatious as it doesn't help the,OP nor other people of the OP budget who maybe after advice.

This thread ain't about open boats in lakes.

Why don't you open your own bloody thread and let this thread be this thread? 

To do so wouldn't hurt you, but to continue hurts this thread. 

Thanky, spanky.


Mark


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> I know it's all great fun to divert a thread about spending $7,000 per month back to a thread about doing it for $500 per month, but its vexatious as it doesn't help the,OP nor other people of the OP budget who maybe after advice.
> 
> This thread ain't about open boats in lakes.
> 
> ...


It's Ok Mark. Next week I'll start a new thread for month 3 and we can move to it to fix my evil ways :angel


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> I know it's all great fun to divert a thread about spending $7,000 per month back to a thread about doing it for $500 per month, but its vexatious as it doesn't help the,OP nor other people of the OP budget who maybe after advice.
> 
> This thread ain't about open boats in lakes.
> 
> ...


Edit

I'll brush up on my geography and figure out what lakes the English Channel and Mediterranean Sea are on.

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed? Edit


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## gonecrusin (Aug 23, 2016)

Don, hope month 3 is less costly with fewer repairs. Have fun!


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## colemj (Jul 10, 2003)

Month 3 is where he learns that to save $50 in provisioning he needs to go to a warehouse store and buy 55gal drums of mayo and 6' diameter cans of tuna fish. And that 600 roll packs of toilet paper can double as mattresses while saving him $0.02 per poop.

Mark


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

colemj said:


> Month 3 is where he learns that to save $50 in provisioning he needs to go to a warehouse store and buy 55gal drums of mayo and 6' diameter cans of tuna fish. And that 600 roll packs of toilet paper can double as mattresses while saving him $0.02 per poop.
> 
> Mark


We started cruising by doing that but found it wasn't really worthwhile due to space. Certainly food just goes off, but the 5 liter dishwashing detergent is just a huge bottle filling the cupboard under the sink for 12 months.

And you are right about the actual savings...


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Arcb said:


> I have never met Mike O Reilly or Roger Barnes in person, but both seem like competent watermen to me.





Rocky Mountain Breeze said:


> Did anyone else notice the similarity between the guy making the presentation and Mike O'Reilly???


(at the risk of upsetting _Mark of the Grumpy Pants_):

Have I been sleep-lecturing again ? Damn &#8230; Roger does look like me, although I'm sure he's a much better sailor than I.

Fun vids guys. Dingy cruising reminds me of my days as a canoeist or sea kayaker. We used to sail both boats when we could, and travel some of the same waters I've now cruised through in my keelboats. BTW, this is why I always laugh when people say I'm "camping" in my frugal sailboat. They clearly have no idea what camping means.

If the point of Don's post is to illustrate how much it costs to cruise, then it makes sense to have a *discussion* (remember &#8230; this is a _discussion forum_) about these costs. Folks like Arcb, Gary, RMB and others are saying there are many ways to cruise at much lower cost. In fact, isn't that what everyone is saying? That Don will find ways to reduce those costs. So why are those in the $3k/month club the only ones allowed to to comment .



Arcb said:


> Mike, if you ever manage to get down this way in the next year, I'll take you and your wife out on the Morgan for a day sail. Who knows, you may end up being the next owner.


Thanks Gary. I plan to get there some day. Gotta get out the St. Lawrence first though. I expect to linger in the Newfoundland area for a few years, but who knows&#8230; and THIS to me is what defines cruising: no schedule, no definite plans, no bucket list. Just living, learning, exploring, and getting away from some of the mayhem of modern life.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

I think part of the issue here is that I started the $3k/mo budget thread. So it would be expected that I'm a $3k/mo cruiser and I'm posting my real life costs. Probably not hard to believe that the $500/mo people are not going to accept my spending no matter what as it will NEVER be close to their bdget unless I am out of money and in basic survial mode.

Btw- I'm currently at Green Cove Springs Marina in Florida, if you want to see $500/mo survial mode living on a boat come on by.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

One with Don on this one.
A mooring costs the same for 35' or 60' when you are forced on a mooring. It's nothing on the hook for either. The $1.25/ft to 1.75/ft slip occurs when something breaks like batteries or linear drives.clearance fees depend on number of people and do you have a dog not boat size. No question costs go up with size but degree is in large measure determined by locale and mooring/slip v anchor. 
With wind/solar I increase complexity but dramatically decrease diesel costs. Same with the DC driven watermaker. I'm not paying 25-35 cents a gallon and the water tastes a lot better with no chlorine or bleach in it. But more complexity and cost of filters etc. 
In last month it's not uncommon to dinghy 10 miles or more round trip to provision or wash sheets and towels in a laudermat. Again a trade off. Although plumbed for a splendide never put it in. Less complexity in machine and water use but more complexity in getting laundry done. Every boat is a compromise as is every decision on what you put in it. Think Dons expenses are real world. They are comparable to most cruisers interested in a basic level of comfort and cruising not just living on stationary boat.
Boat decisions (e.g. Hunter v Hylas) have less to do with daily expenses then I first thought. If done thoughtfully all too often added complexity ends up simplifying your life. Multiple examples exist. Such as having a separate frig and freezer means fresh food and provisioning just monthly if there's no where good to do it instead of a forced trip to get it done. Same with watermakers and water. Or having alternative energy and fuel.
Arch you're right but the trade off is one many refuse to make. When you don't have access to a car or are single handed self sufficiency even at the hands of more complex systems even a more pressing concern. I've been out since November first. I replaced my diesel used on passage. Other than that and restaurant meals bought to socialize have yet to buy fuel,water or provisions. Stocked up before leaving on the cheap. Eventually will need to buy stuff at island prices but the size and complexity of the boat has allows months for dramatically decreased expenses.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Don0190 said:


> ......
> Btw- I'm currently at Green Cove Springs Marina in Florida, if you want to see $500/mo survial mode living on a boat come on by.


Are Tracy and Crystal still there?
Does Bob pop in often?
Is Bottom Dave still kicking?
I heard JB is gone.


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