# Big Freakin' Sails



## smackdaddy

Okay - this thread is for people that ACTUALLY LIKE Big Freakin' Sails (note for morons: the verb, not the noun). BFS simply means sailing that pushes limits - whatever those limits may be. And herein lies the rub...and the reason I need to explain a couple of things so people don't start foaming at the mouth right off the bat.

There has been a tremendous amount of hubbub over this "philosophy" in another thread - but that thread apparently "came with a lot of baggage" - to the point that the topic itself got lost in the fog of war. So, this is an attempt to start cleanly.

It must be understood that the love for the adventure and excitement of hard sailing is just as valid and robust in the newbie as it is in the big-sailing old salt. The gap between the two is experience and knowledge. And the goal here is not to fill that gap by quashing the spirit of adventure and excitement with a deluge of cynicism and technicality - but to help us all learn, if and when the time comes, how to better handle that moment when mother nature starts rising beyond our sailing abilities. Because if you keep sailing - it will happen, period. And as you'll see, it can get very frightening very quickly.

For an old salt, these limits will obviously be worlds beyond those of the typical newbie. That old salt will probably snicker at the point at which the newbie becomes terrified - understandably so. Yet, there will inevitably be an even more seasoned salt that will, in turn, snicker at the snickerer when he/she soils his/her own breeches in a blow. It's all subjective and un-ownable.

Therefore, the BFS factor of a newbie experiencing a hard heel and wayward helm for the very first time is just as exciting, important, and valuable (in BFS terms) as the old salt battling a 50 knot gale. It's just about the *attitude* with which the exploit is approached and remembered - and taken into account as they go back out for more. There are great stories and valuable lessons in both experiences - as well as great opportunities for good hearted slams on the brave posters (which is valuable as well). That's BFS.

So, to be clear this thread is JUST AS MUCH FOR THE SAILING NEWBIE (of which I am one) as it is for the old salt. It's a place to tell your story, listen to others', learn some lessons, and discuss the merits or detractions of Big Freakin' Sails.

The following inaugural BFS stories illustrate what this thread is all about. As I said, I'm a newbie - and you see my first BFS story below. You can then compare that with the other great BFS stories thereafter (sometimes edited to protect the innocent) which I think are great tales from great sailors; they cover the spectrum of "pushing the limits". Then, hopefully, you'll throw down some BFS of your own (either your own story, stories you admire, or stories that are just flat-out lies but with great BFS value - whatever).

Now, let's have some fun...shall we?


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## smackdaddy

With Ike blowing in last week - we finally got some bigger wind in our area - which is usually in the 8-12 range this time of year. The estimates were 30+, with gusts up to 40. I wanted to try it. Here's my BSF:

First off, the Ike sail was epic - at least for me. The wind was far less than forecast, registering steady 20-25 with gusts up to 32. And the scariest part of the whole thing? Getting out of the freaking slip! I've discovered that my C27 is woefully underpowered with a Suzuki 6 outboard - at least for any REAL sailing. Anyway, with the wind at my stern, and the motor cranking in reverse the boat stayed plastered in place. First time ever. Undeterred we handed her out into the marina and punched forward. Before we could get enough momentum to engage the rudder - the wind pushed us broadside back to the dock. Much cursing, scrambling, and poling kept us "pretty much" off the other boats and we handed her back into the slip. We drank copious amounts of rum - also known as "strategizing". 

A seasoned sailor who grew up on the Chesapeake was working on his boat in the next slip and I asked his advice. He said he wouldn't be "comfortable" chancing it in winds like we had with our "egg beater" motor. That was all I needed to be convinced.

He was nice enough to help us hand her back out - while he shook his head and asked about next-of-kin notification. We flipped her bass-ackwards into the slip. We tied off a jib sheet to the bow, had a buddy stand on the dock to pull her into the wind - and we punched it. 

Like butta.

The sailing was less than I expected. Since the lake is somewhat sheltered by the hills we weren't getting the full pleasure of all those knots like Charlie would be in the salt. So, we threw up all the canvass we could muster. And it was...a...blast. I can't wait for the next one.

BTW - using all the valuable advice and ridicule received here - I tightened the outhaul, cranked the vang, tweaked the traveller, and got far less weather helm. Now I'll go take a look at Giu's "sailing-with-bobo" videos and see what else I did wrong.

I can't wait for the next real blow! This BFS stuff is freaking awesome! You guys ought to try it!


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## Stillraining

No snicker here...That wisker pole is 90' long.


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## smackdaddy

BFS from that very cool, intrepid sailor *CharlieCobra*:

Back in the day:
My first foray into sailing the big water was when myself and two others took off for Friday Harbor on my Venture 21 with no experience other than lake sailing in the daytime. It was blowing 15-20 that day and it still stands as one of the fastest trips there and back that I've ever made. We averaged 6.5 knots for the trip which means we were surfing and planing more than half the time. We were beat up and dead tired when we got home but it was a helluva trip. Keep sailing and reading. Sooner or later you'll get out there. There ain't nothing like it in the world Dude, nothin'. I've been bike and car racing, skydiving (including HALO) and lots of other so-called extreme sports but for me, nothing makes me smile like being out when the wind is up and the piss is flying on a sailing yacht.

And now:
Oh Joy Coming Home Trip


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## smackdaddy

Stillraining said:


> No snicker here...That wisker pole is 90' long.


Ahhmmm, Still - did you get the note? Verb, dude. Verb. Stay focused.


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## smackdaddy

*Skip Allen*

An amazing and sobering BFS story - period. Tremendous respect to this guy.

Wildflower


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## Boasun

Yeah! I love it when a wind gust causes the spreaders to touch the water just before we ease the sails a little and stand the boat back up again. 
The looks on the newbies faces is something to enjoy....


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## smackdaddy

*sailortjk1*

Here's some great BFS from another cool sailor on Sailnet:

1. Charlie, ya should have been on L Michigan yesterday. We had steady 20knots from the NE. Went out in building seas. (2-4 foot chop quickly building to 4-6)

The Dog got seasick and the wife got mad that I would not head for cover. She got even madder when the words "Suck it Up" came out of my mouth. Than she got really mad when she took and elbow to the forehead as I was trimming the Genny.

Than she laughed about it when we got back in.
She is a great girl.

2. We had a BFS night on the water last night.
Race commity canceled the race due to high seas and wind, so the skipper that I crew for decided it was a nice night for a cruise.


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## CharlieCobra

Stillraining said:


> No snicker here...That wisker pole is 90' long.


I cannot imagine having that much canvas aloft in anything over 10 knots.


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## CharlieCobra

Boasun said:


> Yeah! I love it when a wind gust causes the spreaders to touch the water just before we ease the sails a little and stand the boat back up again.
> The looks on the newbies faces is something to enjoy....


I don't go that far. Too easy to break shyte when that happens. I'm still wondering how that ragged old ash and bronze block held up when we got pinned with the chute up that time.


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## smackdaddy

*PBZeer*

Yet another Sailnet paragon that's out living the life - or is it outliving the life? Anyway - great sailing spirit from back in the day to now.

Back in the day:

11/13/2002
Gulf Coast in a H26
Having only sailed on lakes to this point, how plausible is it to sail the Gulf Coast, Nov-April, in a H26? Would like to do that while looking for a liveaboard boat when I retire (Sept 06). Seems like it would be a good way to get a feel for what I want in a bigger boat. Would be starting out from Mobile, after coming down from the Tennessee River system.

Forgot to mention, I''ll be singlehanding.

Back in 2007:

I crossed from Texas to Florida in the Spring of 2007. Partly on the ICW, partly open water. My only prep, instruction-wise, was to daysail on Galveston Bay. I've had no formal instruction.

Off we go!

And now:
All over Sailnet. Like you need a link?


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## smackdaddy

*Knothead*

And this story is about as big as it gets from one of the nicest, most knowledgeable sailors on this site. It's long, but it's great:

Here ya go smacky, I'll start a little tale about a real sailor.

I spent a few years growing up with Harold. 
He was my brother, four years older than I. (apologies to Paul S.)
One of the memories that really stand out was when I was about 10 or 11. We were anchored in Richardson Bay off Sausalito. We lived aboard the Oscar Tybring. A Colin Archer built double ended ketch. She was built in 1898 or there about and was credited with saving over 100 vessels and 300 + lives. All without an engine and in some pretty rough waters, (Norway).
Everyone had gone to shore that day. I had taken them in the dory. Which I had learned to scull rather well by that time. 
I can't remember just what was bothering Harold that day, but he was in a foul mood. That I remember. It may have been around the time that Dad had signed a guy on to help him take the boat up the coast. Harold was so pissed. He would sit for hours whetting his knife. A fillet knife that he carried in a sheath on his waist. The guy asked him once how sharp he was going to get it and Harold replied, "sharp enough to cut your head off". He really felt insulted that Dad had brought this guy aboard and let everyone know about it. 
Anyway, sometime after I had returned to the boat, I must have said something really annoying, something that only a kid brother would say I'm sure. Anyway, he snatched me up quicker than I could run, (and believe me, I could run), held his knife to my throat and after a short lecture as to how a little brother and cabin boy should behave, gave me a little slice below my right eye and tossed my butt overboard. 
I don't remember how long he made me swim around but eventually he let me back on board.

Sometime around that time, (I really can't remember if it was before or after), during one of my Dad's trips up or down, (can't remember which) the CA coast, I remember being below in my little berth in the foward cabin. We called it the foc'sle. It was blowing like hell. We were rounding Point Conception. There was only the three of us aboard but I wasn't allowed on deck that night. 
The Oscar was groaning and creaking like something alive. The wind was shrieking and I was scared sh!tless. All of a sudden, an explosion. Or it seemed that way to me. The Jib blew out. I don't know if it was a storm Jib or not but it sounded like a cannon. I could barely hear my Dad yelling from the helm and the pounding of my brother's bare feet on the deck as he ran forward to bring in the tattered remnants of the headsail. He was no older than fourteen at the time and wearing canvas pants that he had made by hand from a drawing on a book. 
My brother was a sailor.

My Dad was a pretty good sailor too. Lousy Dad, and not a really great husband either. Or so I heard. But at least he had the decency to never marry after my Mom died. 
Anyway, after he was forced to sell the Oscar he loaded me and my brother in an old station wagon and drove across the country to New Orleans. He almost killed Harold on the way due to an exhaust leak. Had to drag him out of the car and lay him on the road for about a half hour before he came to. 
He found a rotten old Dutch canal boat sitting and sinking at the dock and bought her. The three of us spent a few months cleaning and patching her up at the dock. He never did haul her but I remember him reefing and caulking seams above the waterline. His plan was to sail to FL and do a complete rebuild. If I remember correctly, he was going to use the boat as a mold to build a ferro cement boat. The fad was just beginning to take hold around then. Anyway, bottom line is, we didn't get far. 
February14, Valentine's Day, 1968. We got as far as Lake Pontchartrain. A storm blew up and the boat started leaking faster than we could pump. Dad made the decision to run her up on a beach. Which he did. The boat was barely floating by that time. He told us that we could grab one thing each. Dad grabbed the ships compass. A huge thing. Harold grabbed his boom box. I grabbed my puppy. A three month old Shepard pup. 
Only one of these things survived the trek across the marshes, the compass, but at least the three of us did. Barely. 
Dad knew that there was a fishing camp out there somewhere, according to the chart. He didn't count on the fact that it was off season. Fortunately, (and truly I mean Providentially), there was a caretaker on the property and he and his family saved our lives. No ****.

I am going to relate the following with a caveat, I am going to get spiritual here. Take it for what it's worth and do with it what you will.

We, Dad, Harold and I had walked through waist deep marsh, across numerous bayous, (we were all wearing PFDs), for hours. We tried valiently to hold onto our treasures, but after a few hours about all that was left was the compass. My puppy didn't make it far. 
We reached another bayou. The sun was setting, It was getting dark and it was raining and cold. Dad was laying on his back exausted. He was in his mid fifties I think. Always smoked. Harold had a side ache. Stiches some call it. He was just laying on the bank. I remember bawling my head off and being more scared than I had, (have), ever been in my life. 
I remember as clearly as if it were yesterday, looking across this next watery barrier and falling to my knees and praying. I have no recollection of the substance of my prayer but when I opened my eyes. I saw a light. Not too far away either. One more bayou and a short distance across another marsh. I didn't say anything. I just went. I remember Dad yelling at me but no one stopped me. 
Sometime later, It was pretty dark by then, I got to the fishing camp. There were a lot of little cabins but only one of them had a light on. 
A single bulb burning on the porch. 
I pounded on the door and when it was opened I found that I couldn't speak. I was making lots of noise but no words. The woman took me into the cabin, removed my life jacket and put me into a hot shower. A few minutes later the man gave me what I later found out was a hot toddy. I have a fondness for them to this day. 
When I could speak, I told the man that my brother and father were out there. All I could do was point. He didn't hesitate. 
The next morning, looking out over the distance we had trekked the day before, there was only water. No land anywhere.

After this little adventure, Harold hit the road. He was 16 at the time. Dad left me with some folks he got to know while we were in Louisiana while he went on down to Ft. Lauderdale and got a job at a boat yard. He got back on his feet and sent for me a couple of months later. 
I didn't see my brother for a few years after that.

The tale goes on and doesn't really have a happy ending but I don't get the feeling you are into happy tales as much as tales of adventure. And my brother Harold was man of adventure. 
A man to be emulated? I'm not sure about that. But a man who embraced life certainly. 
He and I eventually became friends. Sadly, I didn't have much of a chance to know him that way, but such is life.


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## smackdaddy

The floor is now open...time to BFS.


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## Boasun

CharlieCobra said:


> I don't go that far. Too easy to break shyte when that happens. I'm still wondering how that ragged old ash and bronze block held up when we got pinned with the chute up that time.


You would have to inspect the block and see if there is any distortion or not.
If not distorted the block is fine. But if the schackle or any other part is distorted then replace that block.

In fact you should carry spare blocks on board for ready replacements as required by the weather.


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## CharlieCobra

Speaking of getting in slightly over your head. I took some friends from work on their very first sail one fine, sunny Saturday. It was blowing 15-20 when we eased Oh Joy out of the slip and motored into Burrows Bay. I had full Genny and Main up and the winds increased to 20-25 by the time we passed Allen island headed South. The plan was to sail down to Deception and duck into Bowman Bay to drop the hook for lunch. By the time we got abreast of Deception Pass, it was blowing 25-30 and time to reef since we'd been running with the rail in the water to the winch. Needless to say, running offwind wasn't an option as we were next to a Lee shore without enough room. So, with a rook at the helm for his first time, I furled the Genny and went forward to rig the Solent Stay for the Staysail. Mind you there's no lifelines forward of the sprit's butt and no Pulpit on Oh Joy so hanging out on the pointy end as it makes 15' sweeps while shipping green water ain't exactly fun. I got it done and hanked on the Staysail, not wanting to shred the new Genny like I did the old one. Reefing was problematic since the rook had trouble keeping us head to wind and the boom took me off the housetop once but again, I got it done. 

We had a great sail back and the other rookie finally got control of her stomach so we went out across the Rosario to Cypress. The wind moderated back down so I pulled the Staysail, Solent Stay, reef and went back to full canvas. On the return, I hoisted the chute and did a "Titanic" on the sprit while my rookie helmsman enjoyed driving the chute back at 7.5 or so. It turned out to be a nice sail that set the hook for both of them as far as sailing goes. The rook did so well that I let him punch through the tidal chop coming back into Burrows.

I do need to pick up some tethers though. There's been more than a few times when they should've been worn.


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## CharlieCobra

Boasun said:


> You would have to inspect the block and see if there is any distortion or not.
> If not distorted the block is fine. But if the schackle or any other part is distorted then replace that block.
> 
> In fact you should carry spare blocks on board for ready replacements as required by the weather.


I checked it out the last time I went up the mast, no issue. I have a half dozen of these old blocks aboard. Matter of fact, we broke one on the Leeward sheet during the above sail and replaced it while underway, without losing ground.


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## smackdaddy

Charlie - if you actually said the words "I'm king of the world!" you should just be slapped. Otherwise - tethers would be good.

Hey - after reading Skip A's story - it sure made me re-read your F11 tale with a new perspective. Holy crap. I suppose you had the good fortune of getting off the water before the waves built like his.

I can't remember now - were you at the helm the whole time? Or did you have to auto-pilot and hunker down as well?


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## CharlieCobra

No, no AP on Oh Joy but then again, I wasn't stuck in it for three-four days either. Also, my adventure was in more sheltered waters, BIG difference.

No "King of the world" crap from me. I was standing on the bowsprit, hanging on to the furler and just enjoying the sea as it slid under the bow. Magical time, if just too short.


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## CaseyJones

I'm going to chime in here.. because I've got a pretty good one.. We'll call this story 'lesson learned' ..

I sail in the Ottawa River, Lac Deschenes waterway, skipped a Tanzer 22.. A very overbuilt and sturdy 22 ft keelboat .. 

A friend wanted to go out, he had one day he could ..So we decided to do a 2-3 hour cruise up to Aylmer island (about 4 miles to windward from the club) and back .. maybe anchor for lunch . Didn't check the weather, as a) I was a newbie, and b) it was sunny, warm and dead calm (that's good right? *sigh*)

.. anyways, it takes us about 2 hours to tack maybe 2-3 NM towards the island in the exciting 1 kt wind we are experiencing.. I am busy apologizing to Nick for his first time on the boat being 'so dull' .. 

As soon as the words leave my mouth, I notice foul weather to the S/W .. of course, I didn't know the weather patterns at the time, and figured 'maybe it will miss us.. if the other boats turn back, so shall we..' 

*crackle boom!*

the other boats turn back.. We debate what we'll do for the next 20 minutes, at which point the flottilla is mostly back, and we are way too far out.. .. At this point my 'mildly intelligent sailor' gene kicks in, and I realize we are too far out to make it back before it hits, and the wind is picking up.. we leave the genoa up (duuuuh) and reef the main, and decide to try and sail it .. so we head as close to the windward shore as possible ..

Anyways, first comes the rain, then comes the hail, then comes the 50kt headwind, THEN comes the WALL of black water.. at this point the boat is pinned on her beam, helm is hard over, and all I can do is hope the canvas doesn't tear and the storm runs out of wind before we run out of lake.. which it does.. 

Ok, not so bad.. it lasted all of 5 minutes, but there is another one coming and I can see it.. 

"We're not going to make it back, let's do it right this time"

We drop and tie down the sails (duuuuuuh) and get the prop in the water.. all whopping 6 HP of it.. Sure enough, the storm hits again, with even more ferocity this time, and longer.. we ride it out, motoring to windward for a good 20 minutes, holding formation with three other boats whos running lights I can see.. It's like steering on a tightrope, but I'm keeping her pointed with my trusty Johnston 6HP gunned.. 

However, I'm getting hypothermic (maybe I should have invested in something stronger than a 1 dollar walmart poncho? I am a newbie .. that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it) .. so I tell nick he has to take the helm, and jump inside to warm up.. hes doing OK, when all of a sudden our 'strapped down 130% genny breaks free of it's tie, and runs right up the forestay... we go over, pinned to the water again.. this looks familiar, and quickly lose sight of the other boats .. Nick, under my direction does a good job of keeping us beam-to.. it's too dangerous to get up as and bring in the genny we're at a 50 degree heel, and I know it will be over soon.. sure enough, it us.. .. 

A few minutes later as we are collecting our wits, and the contents of the cabin police fire and rescue (who had been flanking our small fleet the whole time) come and ask us if we'd seen a boat in trouble .."No, I never noticed anyone" .. 

They were responding to an SOS issued by another boat, for someone they thought was going down or in trouble.. it later dawned on me that that was probably us, when our flotilla saw our genny break loose.. .. oh well..

anyways.. after that conversation.. *crackle* *boom* in the west.. I make a judgement call, and decide we can outrun it.. Full canvas up, it's blowing 20-30 and we close haul home in about 15 minutes flat.. probably one of the fastest sails I've made on her ever.. .. dock, derig, and run to the cars sopping wet just as #3 hits, with even more ferocity than the first two.. 

The boat came through without a scratch or a tear, Nick still can't meet someone knew without telling that story whilst sporting an ear to ear grin.. 

Me? When the weather turns nasty I know which way it comes from, don my shiny new storm gear, put the canvas *in* the boat.. drop the hook or motor (dependant on position and situtuation) and laugh in the face of danger.. 

seasoned, no.. but no heeling, broach or shift really phases me anymore after that.. For me it was the day I 'got my legs', and fell in love with my boat.. After that day she's a she, not an it. and 30+ is a day I 'really should go sailing, as opposed to a day when I should cancel my sailing plans


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## CharlieCobra

There ya go Casey, the attitude is right and the story is one that's probably been lived by many a trailer sailor. Nothing wrong with being heeled at 50*, if that's what ya wanna do at the time. Being pinned on your beam's end for a length of time takes a little adjusting to though.


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## CaseyJones

well, as I said, we pretty much did everything wrong, and lived to tell about it.. so .. 'lesson learned', and I'll never make those mistakes again (and will invest in storm sails, and more reefs on the main!)

I'm just glad the admiral stayed home that day


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## smackdaddy

Boasun said:


> Yeah! I love it when a wind gust causes the spreaders to touch the water just before we ease the sails a little and stand the boat back up again.
> The looks on the newbies faces is something to enjoy....


What I like here is that you only "ease the sails a little" when the spreaders hit the water. Nice approach, Boasun - that's milking it for speed, baby! And it definitely impresses the newbies when you've got a snapper in your rigging.


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## CharlieCobra

I've had kelp in mine, twas a biotch to get out cause I had to walk the spreaders to get it.


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## smackdaddy

Casey - that brought a tear to my eye, dude. Epic. And, as a newbie myself, I particularly love the part about full-genny/reefed-main. Up until your post, I thought for sure that was the best storm strategy (guess I need some more time with Giu's videos).

Great BFS man!


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## jaschrumpf

A couple of years ago when I was sailing with the Baltimore Downtown Sailing Center, we went out for our weekly Wednesday open sail as one of that year's hurricanes was passing by to the north. We had perfect blue skies in Baltimore, but 20-25 kt winds blowing right down the middle channel of the Patabsco River, right towards the Key Bridge.

I was skippering a J22 with two experienced sailors, and we went out with the jib down on deck, tied firmly down. It was blowing nice in the Inner Harbor, but as we neared the opening into the middle channel, right by Fort McHenry, we could see 2-3 foot swells actually breaking on the bulkhead opposite the fort and lots of whitecaps.

We had lots of weight and experience in the boat, and with the (unreefable) main only, we decided to go for it. The wind was on the starboard quarter the entire way to the Francis Scott Key buoy (set down where the ship he was on was located, just inside the Key Bridge), and we surfed a few swells, really hauling.

We made it to the buoy in record time, jibed neatly around it, and started heading for home. We had figured on being able to stay on a close reach, but the wind backed into the North and we ended up having to tack all the way home. Luckily I had some good beef on the rails, and we pinched it all the way, slamming into those 2-3 foot swells and taking lots of water over the rails.

We cruised uneventfully, though soggily, back into the Inner Harbor, tacked back up to the sailing center (right next to Domino Sugar), and in a good 15 kt wind made a perfect close haul approach into our slip, dumping the wind to control our speed and coming up into the wind to drop the main and coast into the slip.

A couple of boats didn't make it back in from the river that day, and pulled into various safe havens and waited for a ride home. We saw one with its jib up taking a pounding, and they later said they "couldn't get it down" with that much wind.

Of course, being sailors (even just harbor sailors) my crew and I had a good time bragging over a few beers about being the only ones to make it to the buoy and back. A great sail on a beautiful day.


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## CharlieCobra

I know it's up here somewhere but I'll relate it again. Up here in the PNW, we rarely get a Texas style thunderstorm but the only one I've ever seen caught me on the lake.

As I rigged the V-21, I could see a thunderhead building SW of me but it didn't look bad at all. I launched the boat, parked the truck and climbed aboard as a couple of light drops fell. Just after I hoisted sail, caught the 3 or so knots of breeze and sailed out from the dock, hail started to fall. I had put on my slicker for the rain and had the hood up but had nothing on my hands yet. Suddenly, the water erupted in geysers that looks like shots from a 20mm cannon and the gust front hit, knocking the boat on her side. She stood up and rounded as I sheeted out quickly and the lightening started going off like flashbulbs at a concert. So here I am, the only boat on the lake, in a raging storm with an aluminum lightening rod hanging in the air, surrounded by metal bits, being pounded on while I'm making maybe a knot or two to windward in this crap. My hands are being pulverized as I sail slowly to the windward side next to a dock. Seeing I couldn't make the dock, I opted for the Lee beach next to it and grounded my keel in the mud. Being in the Lee, the sails were sagging so I hopped in the cabin to avoid the lightening and hail. There I sat, lighting up a butt and looking out the port, waiting for a bolt to come down the stick, not two feet away and fry my ass. Presently, the hail stopped along with the lightening, a light breeze blew and the rain started, lightly. Sensing it was over, the boat came unstuck and started a leisurely beam reach down the lake. I came out to over three inches of ice all over the boat and liked to have busted my butt moving around. It turned out to be a nice quiet sail after that but it taught me that just because you've never seen a certain type of weather somewhere before, don't mean it ain't gonna happen when ya go sailing.


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## CharlieCobra

jaschrumpf I love it when you're the only boat out in the slop. Ya get some mighty funny looks when ya come back in around all the dock heroes.


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## CaseyJones

smackdaddy said:


> Casey - that brought a tear to my eye, dude. Epic. And, as a newbie myself, I particularly love the part about full-genny/reefed-main. Up until your post, I thought for sure that was the best storm strategy (guess I need some more time with Giu's videos).
> 
> Great BFS man!


if it's blowing at 45-50, and it's bigger than a loincloth, it's too big to control during a blow like that.. the good lord gaveth us storm sails for a reason..use them wisely!


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## smackdaddy

rumpf - have another beer for actually sailing it back into the slip, dude! At my current level of skill - that's kind of the Holy Grail. I feel pretty good out in the open water - but still can't imagine that much control in tight spots. Some day.

As in Casey's story - it seems like sailing in somewhat sheltered waters is actually a blessing for newbies - you can push the boat with big wind without suffering the consequences of building seas. Is that a fair assessment?


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## CharlieCobra

Without doubt.


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## smackdaddy

Another gulper.

MOB for the AP, anyone?


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## JohnRPollard

smackdaddy said:


> ....it seems like sailing in somewhat sheltered waters is actually a blessing for newbies - you can push the boat with big wind without suffering the consequences of building seas. Is that a fair assessment?


Yep. That's also why it's not really accurate to describe sheltered-water windspeeds using the Beaufort scale. The Beaufort scale describes combined wind and sea-state condition on large open bodies of water, like gulfs, seas, oceans. You may have 50 knot winds in an anchorage, small lake, bay, straight, or other relatively enclosed body of water with limited fetch, but you are unlikely to experience the associated sea-state unless you are in open waters.

So, many of us will eventually get caught out and thumped with anemometer readings in the 50's and 60's on a bad day, but thankfully very few will actually experience Force 10 or 11, when you would expect to see waves well in excess of 25-30 feet with many of them breaking. In most boats those would be dire conditions -- close to if not survival -- and you'd want a lot of searoom in which to manoeuvre.


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## Stillraining

I agree 100% John


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## CharlieCobra

Big difference as I said between a Force 11 in the Sound with 100 miles of fetch and 12-15' wind waves and Force 11 in the Pacific with 4000 miles of fetch and the same wind waves on top of 18' swells. Not even the same class....


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## knothead

smackdaddy said:


> And this story is about as big as it gets from one of the nicest, most knowledgeable sailors on this site. It's long, but it's great:


Smacky, As to your assertions, I am reminded of a cartoon character's aside to the audience:

"He don't know me too well do he".

(I can't remember who said that though).

However, Thank You for the kind words.

Speaking of not being able to remember stuff....In the spirit of this thread, ( and I think I like the spirit of this thread), I wanted to share an experience. 
The maiden 'voyage' of our first boat, "Restless".
But since I don't remember stuff so good anymore, and I'm too long-winded with the keyboard. I thought I would just scan the first few pages of the Log of our first real boat.
But as is often the case, what I thought would be the easy way turns out to be simply frustrating and time wasting. Stupid scanner.
I can't make the darn things small enough to attach.

After about an hour and a half, I just grabbed my camera and took a picture of them.

It's hard to imagine that some people think that I know what I'm doing. 

View attachment 2351


View attachment 2352


View attachment 2353


View attachment 2354


View attachment 2355


(_if you think that was bad, you should see my longhand)_


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## CharlieCobra

Ya gotta love early sails on a new (to you) boat. Such interesting things happen, like backing out in front of a fast moving (in the fairway) powerboat and hollering at your admiral to shift to forward as she's hanging upside down in the tranny access hatch with a grip on the shift lever (broken cable, first ever sail).


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## knothead

CharlieCobra said:


> Ya gotta love early sails on a new (to you) boat. Such interesting things happen, like backing out in front of a fast moving (in the fairway) powerboat and hollering at your admiral to shift to forward as she's hanging upside down in the tranny access hatch with a grip on the shift lever (broken cable, first ever sail).


Some memories will last a lifetime.

We had mast steps. We wanted to tie up to a hotel's dock in Stockton for a party. We were passing under the I 5 bridge on the river and I decided that I would climb up to the top of the mast and have Jen inch up to the bridge. 
We were about 15 feet away, drifting slowly with the current and I could tell we were not going to make it. 
I yelled down, "Reverse, Reverse". She yells back up, "Which way do I move the handle?"


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## smackdaddy

JohnRPollard said:


> Yep. That's also why it's not really accurate to describe sheltered-water windspeeds using the Beaufort scale. The Beaufort scale describes combined wind and sea-state condition on large open bodies of water, like gulfs, seas, oceans. You may have 50 knot winds in an anchorage, small lake, bay, straight, or other relatively enclosed body of water with limited fetch, but you are unlikely to experience the associated sea-state unless you are in open waters.
> 
> So, many of us will eventually get caught out and thumped with anemometer readings in the 50's and 60's on a bad day, but thankfully very few will actually experience Force 10 or 11, when you would expect to see waves well in excess of 25-30 feet with many of them breaking. In most boats those would be dire conditions -- close to if not survival -- and you'd want a lot of searoom in which to manoeuvre.


John - that makes perfect sense. Thanks for the feedback. So do you think sheltered water provides a good opportunity to "push" skill level a bit in order to learn to handle the boat/sails in bigger wind without the sea-state "penalty" (at least part of the sailing equation)? That's kind of been my thinking in wanting to get out in winds that I probably wouldn't want to be out in otherwise.

BTW - I fired off a quick email to Beaufort, and he's cool with the whole lake-knot thing. He just said not to get too cocky around sea sailors when bragging about it.


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## smackdaddy

Knot - great story, again, and on paper no less! I haven't seen that since like '87 or something. I was glad to see that the dog turned out to be a keeper.

BTW - I too am partial to a lady with a "rather large pilot-house".


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## camaraderie

Nice job on that one Knotty! Next time we're gonna make you type the whole thing out though!!


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## knothead

camaraderie said:


> Nice job on that one Knotty! Next time we're gonna make you type the whole thing out though!!


I knew that if I didn't post the original log pages none of you guys would have believed that I could be so inept.

Except Sailingdog of course.


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## smackdaddy

Dude - if hooking the dog and fiascoing gear engagement are as inept as you get - you're way ahead of the majority of us.

I'm just glad to see you finally learned how to type.


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## smackdaddy

Okay - so from the preceding stories I have a few questions:

1. Sea Anchoring: What is the principle behind sea anchors - and at what point are they really needed? Don't get too technical here - just explain what the sailor is trying to achieve for us newbies - and the pros and cons of the various means. For example, Allen talks about drogues he was using, he also talks about sea chutes, etc. Then there have also been discussions about tandem anchors, etc. on this site. What's the skinny?

2. Sailing into the slip: How about some tips on this. I've been practicing heaving to in open water - but I'm not yet confident enough to sail in. One of the issues is that with our water down, there's a bottle neck in our marina that leaves maybe 8 feet on either side of our boat coming in/out (with boats on either side). Would that bother the salts out there? Or is that nothing? Giu - you need to get us a video of this (if you haven't already). They've been great tools.

3. The decision to fall off or beat in big wind and waves: When/how is this decision made? In other words, there's the comfort variable in choosing to beat or not in the world of daysailing (when you have the luxury to choose). But I assume that goes out the hatch pretty quickly in a storm. And I understand at some point that the wind and the sea will make the decision for you. But what about the in between. What drives the decision and how do you prepare?


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## JohnRPollard

smackdaddy said:


> John - that makes perfect sense. Thanks for the feedback. So do you think sheltered water provides a good opportunity to "push" skill level a bit in order to learn to handle the boat/sails in bigger wind without the sea-state "penalty" (at least part of the sailing equation)? That's kind of been my thinking in wanting to get out in winds that I probably wouldn't want to be out in otherwise.
> 
> BTW - I fired off a quick email to Beaufort, and he's cool with the whole lake-knot thing. He just said not to get too cocky around sea sailors when bragging about it.


Smackdaddy,

Definitely. Sheltered waters are a blessing for everyone, not just beginners. They let you sail in windspeeds that would be much more difficult out on open waters. You only have to manage the heavy wind and chop, usually without the worry of destructive seastates. One caveat, though, is that sometimes heavy wind blowing over shallow water can create a very nasty, short, steep sea/chop, that can be pretty uncomfortable and tricky to deal with, particularly if sailing upwind.

That said, there are reasons why even folks who usually sail in relatively sheltered waters, don't usually set out when it's blowing 35+ knots. The primary reason is that things tend to break, and it can become pretty costly. Most coastal sailors would rather invest in equipment that makes their routine sailing more enjoyable, than spend all the money investing in storm sails, etc that will rarely if ever get used, or replacing broken parts.

Sure, you can go out in the 40 knots with your regular sails reefed down, but they are not really designed for those windspeeds and you will end up putting a couple year's worth of regular wear and tear on them in one afternoon. Or maybe you'll break the boom and now you're replacing a component that would have given you good service for years instead of buying that new spinnaker you really wanted. If your pockets are deep, none of this much matters, but most of us have a sailing budget we have to live within.

So, we try to be prepared and have a plan for how we'll deal with 40 knots if we're caught out in it -- which will happen eventually if you sail enough. But, most folks won't purposefully set out in those conditions unless they are very well equipped ($$) for them.

P.S. I'm surprised Beaufort replied at all. He's a fairly reclusive type, preferring to let his proxies defend the honor of his scale. You must have a persuasive way with words! If I have time, I will share a story about my first encounter with the Beaufort Scale.


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## sailingdog

Trust me Steve, we have no doubts about the depths you can reach in your ineptness...   


knothead said:


> I knew that if I didn't post the original log pages none of you guys would have believed that I could be so inept.
> 
> Except Sailingdog of course.


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## knothead

sailingdog said:


> Trust me Steve, we have no doubts about the depths you can reach in your ineptness...


Thanks buddy. I knew I could count on you.


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## artbyjody

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - so from the preceding stories I have a few questions:
> 
> 1. Sea Anchoring: What is the principle behind sea anchors - and at what point are they really needed? Don't get too technical here - just explain what the sailor is trying to achieve for us newbies - and the pros and cons of the various means. For example, Allen talks about drogues he was using, he also talks about sea chutes, etc. Then there have also been discussions about tandem anchors, etc. on this site. What's the skinny?


Drogues and sea anchors (or the quick easy way - just drag something behind you that sinks) are used in heavy weather to slow down a boat in fast or high level waves - mainly on the downhill sled of the wave. Principle is like this - take a dock cart heavily loaded and go up the ramp at high tide (there will be an angle on the ramp if you have those floating piers - if you are manly enough and do not have floating docks then use stairs)..If you push the dock cart up- all the work you have to do is countered by the resistance of the dockcart naturally wanting to slide down. This in effect is what the boat does climbing waves - loses momentum...When you get to the top - its easy to get the cart moving faster (ie downhill) and if there is a downhill slope you now have an almost runaway cart...(gains momentum)

Dragging the sea drogue if it is the right distance away from the boat will prevent the downhill momentum allowing a more comfortable slide down the wave because it will be providing the resistance needed to slow the boat down and maintain a slower momentum (like brakes on a trailer)...



smackdaddy said:


> 2. Sailing into the slip: How about some tips on this. I've been practicing heaving to in open water


Practice with just the main or the jib out - but keep the motor running and ready to engage. Probably the safest way to do it - things get out of hand you luff the sail and use the motor to get back to a position...Easiest way to practice and have that piece of mind...

You stated "non technical" and that's how I would explain it for the most part...


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## smackdaddy

Cool - thanks Jody. Great explanations. Cogent and coherent, my good man!!

I was really lost on the drogue thing until you finally spoke some language I understand..."brakes on a trailer". Yeah - baby! So it's kind of like tying two dead pit bulls and a busted fridge to the back of my mobile home in a tornado. Got it.

Seriously - thanks. So what about the types of sea anchors - and the reasoning behind choosing one type over the other?

As for the slip sail. I'll work on it. I mean that's what my AIG boat insurance is for, right?


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## artbyjody

smackdaddy said:


> that's what my AIG boat insurance is for, right?


You're just looking for a bailout 

There are a few articles in the Sailnet Articles section that discuss all that and a few threads (and we know stating personal prefs is like dragging back up the Rocnar thread). I have a huge parachute drogue that I have ready for use but, if going offshore (ocean) I would purchase that fancy one that has tons of those parachutes all in tandem.

For coastal / inland sailing - the single parachute type or dragging a bucket behind is probably all that is needed. Personally - I have yet to use one myself but its good to have like all safety equipment...


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## smackdaddy

CaseyJones said:


> if it's blowing at 45-50, and it's bigger than a loincloth, it's too big to control during a blow like that.. the good lord gaveth us storm sails for a reason..use them wisely!


Speaking of loincloths - are you a Deadhead? The name got me wondering. "Casey Jones you better watch yo speed". How perfect is that?


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## CharlieCobra

When to run off? Good question. I reckon a couple of things need to happen to even allow you the choice. Running isn't gonna take ya deeper into the storm and running won't place you on a Lee shore. Every boat reaches a limit with regards to beating to windward or beam reaching. So far I haven't found Oh Joy's limits but then again, I don't go looking to try that anymore. Once you've gotten to where ya can't beat or run on the beam, you have two choices, run off or heave to. I can see running to a certain point but not to the point of risking pitch-poling, if I'm going in that direction. If not, I'll heave to. It's been shown that ya lose much less ground heaving to than ya do running.


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## jaschrumpf

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - so from the preceding stories I have a few questions:
> 
> 2. Sailing into the slip: How about some tips on this. I've been practicing heaving to in open water - but I'm not yet confident enough to sail in. One of the issues is that with our water down, there's a bottle neck in our marina that leaves maybe 8 feet on either side of our boat coming in/out (with boats on either side). Would that bother the salts out there? Or is that nothing? Giu - you need to get us a video of this (if you haven't already). They've been great tools.


A bottleneck that narrow would make anyone think twice about sailing in, especially with boats on both sides.

At the Baltimore DSC, we have a wide-open approach to our slips, and it's a private dock -- no powerboats to worry about. It's just us. In general, we can approach the slips from anywhere along a 180 deg. approach, and choose our entry with plenty of time to decide. It's really the perfect place for attempting dockings under sail. Which are the only kind we can do, as none of our J22s or Sonars have motors.

OTOH, I had to sail into my slip at White Rocks Marina earlier this year when my engine overheated. The breeze was light and we tacked in with no problem, and sailed her into the slip easy as kiss your hand. Only used the main, and you can easily control speed by dumping the wind as long as it's forward of the beam. It's a little harder if from astern.

The most important piece of knowledge for docking under sail is how far your boat will drift upwind under various conditions, because the DSC's system is to always turn the boat into the wind and drop the main (the jib is always dropped well outside the dock area), then use the leftover speed to enter the slip. Our slips have full docks, no fingers, and if you're coming in a bit hot there's plenty of room to jump off the bow and get a line around something to slow her down. They are only 22-23' boats after all.

We just have nearly the perfect arrangement for docking under sail. Not every place will be so accomodating, obviously.


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## knothead

CharlieCobra said:


> When to run off? Good question. I reckon a couple of things need to happen to even allow you the choice. Running isn't gonna take ya deeper into the storm and running won't place you on a Lee shore. Every boat reaches a limit with regards to beating to windward or beam reaching. So far I haven't found Oh Joy's limits but then again, I don't go looking to try that anymore. Once you've gotten to where ya can't beat or run on the beam, you have two choices, run off or heave to. I can see running to a certain point but not to the point of risking pitch-poling, if I'm going in that direction. If not, I'll heave to. It's been shown that ya lose much less ground heaving to than ya do running.


Yep, boats have limits and people have limits. We try to keep that in mind when we choose what situations we allow ourselves to get into.
We choose our destinations and choose our windows. 
We buy our ground tackle and pay our insurance. 
We purchase gear and try to educate ourselves, and hone our skills.

The idea is to better your odds. To increase your chances of success.

But there is no way we are never going to feel completely safe at sea in heavy weather. 

If there were, we wouldn't be doing it.


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## Giulietta

Since I don't want to be accused of not telling my "merda de boi" stories also..

here is one I wrote for another "venue" where "merda de boi" was found in every thread....

Here is my account....

Back in 1932, I was going around the world for the 5th time that week, in my 152 feet 6 mast triple keel Carbon Iron Kevlar 4 Hull Monohull Trimaran Cat, that time, I was crossing the Horn, in -30 ºF air, when the winds, blowing erratically from the East, at 92 knots and sometimes from the south at 102 knots, ice pellets were the size of Chevrolet cavaliers….. in seas that were at least, 78 feet high, and waves that were on top of each other, yep, that is how near they were in frequency, took me for a small ride...the sea was black, but the skies were blue…the clouds…were not there…..

That morning, after not sleeping for 200 days in a row, I brushed my teeth with haemorrhoid cream, and inserted visine in my butt, wearing nothing but a T-shirt a pair of flip flops and a wooden glove, so I was ready for the Horn….one more time….

I had crossed a tanker that was almost sinking and 5 life rafts form others that were attempting the impossible…but not me….I pushed forward….there I went…the cries of people saying “don’t go!!!!!”….”don’t go!!!!!”…I ignore them….after all I needed something to tell to the folks at sailnet….we are runing out of BS now...

At one instance, I was doing 45 knots boat over water speed, which was approximately 120 knots over the ground, when suddenly, my Starboard shrouds were immersed by a wave coming from Port side....that was not a knock down or a broach…no Sir…that was a “Knocroach”…it’s not having the rail in the water….it’s not having the shrouds wet….that was the real deal….I knew my time was coming…..my mast pointed straight down to the sea bed….the highest mast hit the coral banks 5 times, banging up and down, waking up a gigantic octopus that rolled his 10 legs (yes the famous Horn 10 legger octopus, a vicious killer)…..I realized the disarray in my socks drawer would take me a good 3 months to sort out….

The tool kit open and 200 screws were spilled on my boat’s floor….my paper plates, that I keep for MOB situations, broke in small pieces, due to the impact…..

Suddenly, thru the thru hull hull that I had left open, due to my own fault, I saw day light…..I managed to push my way thru the 200 screws, and the socks…and made it to the light….I put my mouth in the hole and took a fresh breath of air….after all I was under water for almost 25 minutes now….my lungs were exploding….

Suddenly, at almost the speed of sound…my keel that had retracted, when the boat was upside down after 5 rolls, miraculously won against the gravity and, went up into the sky…the boat straightened it self……

I could see all gear was on deck, including my dinghy sea ray 200 HP tender, that I had forgotten to tie….I was scared, afraid, but luckily only 3 of my boxer shorts were missing…I had washed them the day before, as I left South Africa, and left them to die in my lazy back mast furling lines…

Suddenly ….

My mast hit the water again, this time rolling over the bow….I saw the wave behind me…It was so big it dried the sea bed…., the hawk that had nested on the top of hit, went down, at least 300 feet under water....and the octopus ate it….bastard…

I was knocked down...my boat spun 4 times around the boa….the ropes were tangled, the shrouds collapsed, the sheets messed up, looked like a fisherman’s nest...in one occasion 3 tuna were caught in my sheets........I was holding tight to the tiller, that I use to row my boat…I had carved my nails in the wood…my legs hurt from the force….I held for dear life, so I stopped thinking for a while, decided to majke some bacon and a toast, I only had time to put butter one side....when I was eating it half way, another wave came from the bow...it washed me over...I has thrown out of my boat, my life came in front of my eyes, all the while I was hearing a holiwoodesque song...I am sure it was Celine Dion singing Titanic music....

Suddenly, a whale comes by me, and kicks me....I was back on my boat, all this time, I managed to get only my T-shirt wet....

I kept rolling and getting knocked down and broached 32 times more that morning….finally all has an end…and the winds bçlew a nice 60 knots 4 hours later, for only 50 minutes…so I hoisted all sails, and retured home….

That was scary…I have another story that is much worse than this….tell me if want to hear it….I don’t want people to think I am lying or exaggerating……really….

Does flipping an Optimist count as a broach or knockdown??? My son is very experienced….did that many times….


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## sailingdog

Now, Gui, the last time you told this story it was 1933... so either you were lying then or you're lying now.


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## Giulietta

sailingdog said:


> Now, Gui, the last time you told this story it was 1933... so either you were lying then or you're lying now.


Hey...gotta mingle....you know....kind keep up with the rest...


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## jaschrumpf

But ours are such obvious tall tales, and yours are just so darn believable!


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## Giulietta

Yesterday..the wind was blowing 80 knots...gusting 300...the waves were around 200 feet..but I have seen worse...but as you know as a "merda de boi" sailor, I only go out when it's like that...

Here is a photo of me sailing in those conditions..can you see the Tsunami coming at me??










This is how scared I was...look at those white caps...60 knots...that is...










The sea was really rough...










My heel was so extreme the spreaders were toching the water..really...but on the other side of the boat...270 deg, from the wind...really..i am not a "merda de boi" teller....

But then...I put on my Darth Vader helmet...and pushed on...










I then heaved to..look at those sea conditions...good thing I heave to with a drogue










Then I realized ....I gotta go back to sailnet and give them some of this:


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## eMKay

There is no way that is true, you can't possibly know what a Chevy Cavalier is. No way.


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## jaschrumpf

This was the B'est FS I've done so far, but I was killed immediately after the photo was taken and haven't been out since.


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## artbyjody

There are stories and then there are STORIES. The latter being that kind of tale that is told with an underlying truth throughout - but embellished, to keep the story going. With that said - this is MY STORY...

Last weekend was going to be the last actual weekend sail for a few weeks. It would be my last weekend, not because of anything dire in regards to the boat. For those that know me, will realize that during the summer, my weekends start on a Monday and end the following Sunday evening. Due to the summer's end and client needs, my weekends were now to follow those of the normal 9-5 er.

It has been true that as of the last few weekend trips and throughout some of the races, that "Hello Gorgeous" has been out on the water - motoring with grace and sometimes sailing but always with an adventure (costly ones at that). Although during the sailing portions (and some of the motoring) it would of been no surprise to have found pictures of my sailing yacht plastered on the home page of Sailinganarchy.com with a caption underneath it of : "What is this".

Truth is, they emailed me after seeing some of the photos of our sail plan. For those of you late to the stories I post: I have been flying a "jiblet". The jiblet is actually my Catalina 27's X10 Kevlar sail, that was used as a last resort to make sure we could race and sail after jamming the ProFurl roller furling system and it subsequently becoming an automatic pez dispenser. And if you have never seen a tiny little hank on jib on a almost 40 something foot boat - with just the head and one clew secured - it is a sight to behold. SA did ask if they did feature the photo (apparently some spies got pictures of it from the local North Sails loft in town) - could I offer up a prize for whom got it right.









[The jiblet in action - amazingingly secret weapon #14 in our race kit]

Sadly, I couldn't and that must of took some of the air out of the publicity, because it was ultimately replaced with the "Chick Sailor of the Week" which was taken at the bi-annual Portuguese crossbreeding regatta.

At any rate, the weekend plans were all good to go - kinda. With the roller furler out of action, and yet again the halyard replaced the weekend before - wrapped at the masthead. Iit was not looking good for sailing.

Luckily, Brian decided to pop in that Thursday afternoon even after I stated - "No sailing today bud and if you come down its just a social as there is so much work to do, that I have no idea where I could use your help."

And the latter is so true. I had started on Monday doing what should of been a simple wiring project to upgrade the gauge of wire to the water pump. The water pump when running - draws so much power that it flickers the lights and cycles the stereo to no end.

Naturally, in order to get to that project I had to lift the floorboards up and discovered the bilge practically full of water - yet again. So, it was back to creating a better bilge pump system. Then the list went on to fixing the drain of the sink, fixing the sudden no flush mode of the toilet, tracing why there were cut wires in the bilge and where did they once go - etc...By the time I managed to knock a item off the list there was another and so forth.

You know what I mean too. Everyone has had that new car that 3 months after the warranty goes suddenly there is a oil leak in the driveway, a squeal here and there and soon everywhere, some window won't roll down and when you turn on your lights the windshield wipers go off. And if that isn't enough suddenly the basement of your domicile floods out, your tv goes bonkers, and you discover that someone hacked your yahoo account and is now posting dirty pictures of you in the erotic section of craigslist - along with your phone number..

Well - it really wasn't as bad as that.

Needless to say, Brian volunteered to see if he could fix the furler , while I worked on the jungle of projects and constantly answering my phone. He didn't get anywhere, other than confirming it was broke when he started the attempt at fixing and it was more broke after tearing it apart. He did get the halyard untwisted and we ended up drilling new set screws, so at least the genoa could be hanked up on the furler without more pez being dispensed.

That at least infused me with encouragement. And that night I finished all the projects that were critical and awaited for my guests for Friday.

I was kinda excited about it because this weekend was going to me with "Boathook Hooker" and a few other homeless lasses. That is the thing about living in a town where dating is impossible - there are a lot of homeless types around. Usually when I pop into a Starbucks, and I see these ladies just hanging out at the patio. The sat there usually while not so much enjoying the only kind of umbrella that doesn't come in a foo foo drink. Feeling sorry for them, I'll casually drop some spare change in their cups.

Really, how could I not with signs such as "I Can't afford Coffee - Anything will help", "Poor and Caffeine deprived just give me enough for a Mocha", and my favorite "Buy me coffee - sugar and cream is free"...

So, I have been on second name basis with most of the cuter ones. I always hold off on the judgment of cute until they have at least had a free shower at the YMCA though. Lucky for me, it was easy to recruit them for the sail.

The only major concern these gals had was, "You are paying for this date, yes?"

Upon which I smugly replied knowing that I could afford the guest marina bill, "Yes, I have the trip paid for."

So, that Friday afternoon there was me with the "Boathook Hooker" and the caffeinated homeless lasses. In my defense of the hooker label, that is what she decided to label herself as (because I don't want to offend any Palin supporters or anything - so straight up on that). I don't make this stuff up and wowsers what she can do with both ends of that boat hook while dressed in fishnet stockings and hooker boots... I'll digress because this is about big sails and not other biggie items..

Brian comes along for the ride as well, although a bit uneasy about my sudden position of "dateless" to "all the woman say they are on a date". I probably should of gotten the cue from Brian when he then asked, "Why are they asking me if I want a "date" and then trying to explain to me that its like a "car date" but on a sailboat.

I had no idea what they meant either. But then again I had my Bassett Hounds onboard as well so wasn't paying much attention to the conversation.









[my bassett's. Lucky to the left, DeForrest to the Right]

We get "Hello Gorgeous" out the slip and out to the harbor. We raise the genoa. I should say attempted with herculean efforts because it took a good 15 minutes to grind that baby to the top. Try as we might, it was just a long haul to get it to the top. Indeed that Harken replacement will and is on order.

After exhausting ourselves, we had the ladies raise the main and off we went. Wind blowing a good 16-20 and finally full sails. It wasn't long before the rails were dipping into the water and SOG was 8.5 knots.

Now if there is one thing you should know about Bassett Hounds, is they do not like to hike. At 95 lbs a piece, they both wanted to slouch in the cockpit seating that was the lowest point of the boat. I can tell you that sail trimming with this kind of crew - teaches you how to exactly level off the boat and still sail with speed. Luckily the ladies minded the hiking and I was tickeled when I yelled to them after tacking, "Hike you skirts" - they did just that for the first two times...made the view a lot nicer.

We sailed up to Shilshole to drop Brian off. He was wanting to grab a boat for the Friday night race, and if he couldn't crew, then he'd just walk to the bus. I was kinda ok with that as after all he had at least put some work into the boat the evening before.

What I didn't want to do was take down the genoa. After that 15 minutes of pain raising it, come hell or high water, I was gonna get him to the dock with out dropping it.

The problem with that was however, the wind was from the north and the entrance to Shilshole Marina is practically North to South. But I had a plan, and I fired up the iron genny to help compensate.

We get to that entrance and start passing the fishing pier when I noticed that there was the boat ramp pier just right there. I suggested that we do that instead of going all the way down to the fuel dock.

And thus we did. The wind still blowing a good 12-16 with the genoa up I use the wind as much as I could to get us just close enough. But it wasn't in the cards and I constantly had to pull reverse and forward and give more throttle. Luffing didn't do a dang thing because as soon as I did it wanted to gybe and I had all of about 50 feet to do this.

It must not of looked good because all those folks that were on the fishing pier, ran away from the pier in a hurry leaving there fishing poles dangling.

We got it though, I finally backed up just enough to grab a handful of mussels from the pier pilings of the fishing pier, and put the boat sideways. Wind blew us in and Brian jumped off.

We then made our way back out, hoisting the main and made our way to Poulsbo.

It was a beautiful sunset. Full moon rising behind us as the effervescent hues of oranges, reds and purples filled the westerly skyline and slowly ebbed away with the setting sun. That sunset was almost as colorful as the crew I had on board actually. As I endured hearing their life stories I was reminded how many times you can here such a story - it always changes but is always the same - much like a sunset.

Night time navigation is the trickiest part of sailing and overall - motoring. I did my standard safety lecture about everyone's responsibility. Emphasizing that everyone is a lookout because things can happen. I told them about the different kinds of flashing lights and what they mean, and how close but also how far away things will look all at the same time. Upon which one of the ladies quipped, "You mean kinda like watching out for cops".

I reckoned if that helped her - it helped me so I said yes.

The first few hours went by uneventful. The wind had died down so we dropped the sails and decided to motor. I let the gals drive - especially that red haired boathook hooker. She seemed to really get it and she did not really reference a lot of things I didn't understand. Plus she had actually brought food and the kind of beverages I like.

We make under Agate Bridge - and that moon was brilliant. Lighting up the waterway like mercury lamps on a mini putt putt course.










I turned the helm over to that red haired gal with only one stipulation: "Keep a close eye out and stay in the center of the channel"

I needed to verify our position on the Raymarine E-120 Nav display. The goal was Port Orchard. Try as I might though - the whole system was mind boggling slow. Between the 3-D re-draw rate and constantly trying to figure out why I couldn't find Port Orchard Marina on the display although the area was listed as "Port Orchard Bay"...

So I would constantly check on the crew topsides. Come back and fiddle with the navigation stuff.

I finally decided - Poulsbo, as I know that area.

I get ready to use the head and then come up to make my "command decision" when suddenly DeForrest - one of my 95 lb Basset Hounds comes leaping at me from the cockpit through the companionway.

That was about all I can honestly say that I know that happened at that point as things went dark.

I could hear commotion all around and peeking through the forward hatch I saw Lucky, my other hound doing the attack mode on what appeared to be a 900 lb sea lion on the foredeck. I'll give it up to the sea lion - they can bark louder than my dogs.









[one of the buoys with sea lions - on the return home]

I wasn't really too concerned about Lucky as he is a hunter by breed and I had seen him and the rest of the pack take down an 8 foot gopher at my farm in PA.

That is when I heard the rest of the commotion and there was one of the ladies whose fishnet stockings had snared the lifeline and she was actually hanging onto a buoy with one leg being still attached to a slow moving boat. That's when "Boathook Hooker" used her boat hooking skills and landed her on deck like she was a marlin.

But that is not actually what happened you see. In the brief 15 seconds that I was knocked unconscious, that is what "I saw". The mind plays wonderful tricks on one sometimes.

I awoke from the unconscious daze to find Deforrest licking my face as if to say "You saved my life man!".. And that was true - when I caught him, I stumbled back and was lifted into the air with finally being knocked flat onto my back onto the saloon floor. Never even noticed or felt that my head had engaged the saloon table which probably explains why I was knocked out.

I had no idea what happened.

"Damn, what made Deforrest suddenly want to jump below?", I asked the red haired helms gal.

"You didn't feel it?", she said soberly.

"No - all I know is that I was lucky I caught Deforrest as that is a 8 foot drop..", I replied.

"I ... I..", she tried to say.

"You what?", I coach her.

"I hit that buoy...", and the sobs come out like rain from a thunderstorm on a sunny day.

"You mean that one I told you to stay away from?"

"Yes, I kept watching it, I had it in my sites, and then it disappeared and thought we passed it.", still sobbing she continues "Then I nailed it head on. You disappeared and I thought I killed you!"

"Damn I never felt a thing.", I state somewhat amazed.

"I am so glad you are alive... that is all I could think about.", she said with great remorse.

The rest of the crew was silent and I checked everyone all out. Lucky had been lucky as he was in the cockpit sleeping and was nuzzled in comfortably.

There was a bit of uneasiness as I made my way forward, my head still dripping blood. The anchor was knocked loose and was hanging off the side, and the anchor roller that was crushed during the "port tack on your bow" was even more crushed. Check the anchor locker no water pouring in. I then stumble down below and start checking for anything that would indicate a flooding condition.









[Day 2 after the head on hit - my head. It was totally healed in two days because I heal abnormally fast, the yellow is where I peeled the scab off to make for a nicer picture.]

Smoke a few cigarettes and decide to pep talk everyone. After all, things do happen and at this point it was useless to be upset over a possible concussion. The dogs were ok - no one but me suffered any blood loss and "Hello Gorgeous" is a stout boat even if she is a racer / cruiser. Italians do it best and redhead are always "point on".

We make it to Poulsbo and everyone but the "Boathook Hooker" leaves stating that they will never sail again.

That was ok because I counted something like 39 references to dates and cops and Poulsbo Marina is pretty nice. Would of been weird dock conversations in the morning.

So the red head, the dogs and I still continued the weekend. Poulsbo that evening and morning and then it was off to Bremerton. I made her still take the helm because you have to douse those fears as they happen less one will be scarred for life.









[can't really tell tell - or is that tell tale]

And that is my story within the STORY.









[Sailor winch dog]

Brian did text me that Sunday Evening with "I am still walking" and I think I may of gotten the better end of that one because I am still sailing...


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## camaraderie

OMG...an immediate sailnet classic. You are seriously bent Jody!


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## smackdaddy

*MDB Review*

My beautiful thread! I turn my back for a few hours and it's.....*deflowered*.....by a band of ruffians! Don't think I don't know what's going on. You guys wait until a thread busts a grand in views then you jump onto the stage in your fancy makeup and photoshop skills. Well it won't work this time! You jackals! I'll get my revenge!

Okay - time for the MDB Review of the last round:

1. GUI (you really need to help people out with that one - they keep turning you into a goopy substance instead of the manly sailor you are - or is it the other way around?): After thorough review of your story, and mass-spectrometry performed on each of the photos provided by you - I call *Merda de Boi!* Why? We'll it's so obvious! A detail you obviously overlooked in all your egocentric bluster...There is not a cow on the planet that would actually do that. They eat *GR*ASS you bonehead! Obviously a photoshop job. Also - next time just remember that Visine is applied in drops - not the entire bottle. Salingdog was so right to call you out.

2. Rumpf: Your photo evidence was far more compelling. Very nice BSF dude. I do think we now need to discuss the merits of beating to windward using only a mainsail cover, however. I'm not sure we've explored that strategy fully.

3. Jody: It's good to see you back to your true form. I'm going to assume that the posts I saw from you in "the other" thread we're immediately after that nasty bump on the head. You're back on a roll, baby. Now - the cropping of that particular photo turned it more into an inkblot than a photograph. When I first looked at it I wasn't sure if it was a distended, shaven beer belly with a hickey and thong strap at the bottom, or something far less pleasant (no Sailhog references please). I'm not saying anything regarding your general physiognomy - I'm just sayin'. Now, as is the norm, "no picture - didn't happen". After carful consideration of your tale and the photos actually provided, I'm afraid I have to call MDB. I strongly suspect that there were never any actual women on your boat - but that instead you strapped fishnet stockings, a red wig, and lipstick onto your hound and called it close enough. (Please, PB, I am not talking about Sarah Palin here, so relax).

======

So, after that bold attempt to push this illustrious thread into Off-Topic - let's get back to sailing shall we?


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## smackdaddy

It was a great sail last night! Actually, freakin' awesome! Don't really know what the wind speed was - but it was honkin'. A little evidence below...

We were having a blast until a damn Hunter 26 started overtaking us (or it might have been a MacGregor - I dont' know). I was suddenly reminded of the whole buried-rail/less-efficient garbage. So, instead of trimming and balancing, we just jumped up and down in the cockpit screaming at them and flinging poo. They turned off very quickly and we stayed in the lead. You guys would have been proud.

C'mon newbie BFSrs! Show these wannabe photoshoppers what you're made of! If I can get my boat over on her side, you can too! Join on in!

(BTW - I saw some guy flying a Hobie cat as well. He appeared to be towing an interesting drogue - a ball attached to a chain attached to his ankle. What's that setup called?)


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## CharlieCobra

Jeeze, your boat must have a lot of freeboard to get to 35* and still be dry. At 35*, Oh Joy is wet to her winches. She only has about 26" of freeboard at the cockpit so wetting the rail happens between 25-30 for me. Ccam's boat is a dry one too. I had her over to 30* when we went out and still had a foot or more to go. I'd probably need 30 knots to bury his rail with everything up. Once ya get past 30*, the air starts dumping out the top of the sails, making it tougher to get over further, unless it's really blowing.


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## artbyjody

smackdaddy said:


> My beautiful thread! I turn my back for a few hours and it's.....*deflowered*.....by a band of ruffians! Don't think I don't
> 
> 3. Jody: It's good to see you back to your true form. I'm going to assume that the posts I saw from you in "the other" thread we're immediately after that nasty bump on the head. You're back on a roll, baby. Now - the cropping of that particular photo turned it more into an inkblot than a photograph. When I first looked at it I wasn't sure if it was a distended, shaven beer belly with a hickey and thong strap at the bottom, or something far less pleasant (no Sailhog references please). I'm not saying anything regarding your general physiognomy - I'm just sayin'. Now, as is the norm, "no picture - didn't happen". After carful consideration of your tale and the photos actually provided, I'm afraid I have to call MDB. I strongly suspect that there were never any actual women on your boat - but that instead you strapped fishnet stockings, a red wig, and lipstick onto your hound and called it close enough. (Please, PB, I am not talking about Sarah Palin here, so relax).


Smack - you really need to get back on your meds. Who comes up shaven beer belly with a hicky unless that is what you dream about while you attempt sailing. No - no pictures of the gals because we all know the photoshop guru is in here and why add to any one's embarrassment less the story itself. To say something like that about my hounds are fighting words indeed - 'id sick them onto you but you may enjoy them licking you into submission. Sigh - nothing is ever good enough for you. Besides a sailnetter was on that trip and its up to her to confirm, deny, or let the story be as it is...

Remember - get your meds refilled - you are jumping all over the map lately.


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## CharlieCobra

Here's an example:










This was a beat into 25-30 and maybe 6-8' seas on top of old swells so some of the waves got up to 10-12' in places. You can see, we aren't heeled over that bad and the deck has green water running down it, sweeping off the fenders and docklines. Yeah, it's ugly but I wasn't sending anyone out there without tethers to clean it up.


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## smackdaddy

Jeez Charlie - couldn't you have let my wimpy little photo stay up for just a bit longer before throwing down a monster like that? Wow! Sweet BFS dude! That beat's Giu's work all to pieces!

As for freeboard, I'm glad to hear you say that. I was wondering what it was going to take to get that mythical wet rail. It was very cool hearing the wind crank out of the top of the sails when we'd go over. And man was I fighting weather helm. Still got a lot of work to do in learning that balance (back to Giu's videos on the traveller and boom jack). But it was really, really fun!!!!

PS - I keep getting all these great BFS links and videos via PM by these shy types. So if you don't want me to out you - you better tell me now. Because some that stuff is just too good not to BFS. I'll do the bragging for you and even change your name to protect your innocence. Last call.


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## smackdaddy

Jody - I'll await confirmation from your "witness". And my sincere apologies for insulting your dog by comparing him/her to a VP candidate. That was just wrong.

Now back to my "weeeeeeeed....whites and wine" of a job.


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## DrB

*Okay, not as epic as some, but my first BFS...*

went like this.

I went out one Thursday night with a business colleague from Milwaukee and his wife and girls. There is absolutely zero stuff on the radar within 200 miles, so it looks safe. Off we go and we leave the mooring around 5:15 PM. The wind is fresh, 15 to 20 mph, and coming from the west, so we put up only the jib and sail on a very broad run out towards Misery and Bakers Islands located in Salem Harbor, MA. Moving right along at 6.5 to 7 knots, we are quickly in the channel between the two islands. As we cross the channel, the wind picks up to 25 kts from the funnel effect.

It will take us longer to get back since we will have to go upwind. Also, during the trip out, I realize that the crew is really green, so I have to be on my toes and make sure no one gets hurt. Also, to go up wind, we need both sails, but since I have the green crew and am worried about excessive heeling, we roll in the jib and sail only on the main. This is slow and we really don't move fast, 3 to 4 kts, but the boat heel is virtually non-existent. About 5 minutes into the return trip, I notice that the sky is now getting very much darker. Not darker because of night coming, darker because of&#8230;&#8230;.A Storm!. What the &#8230;&#8230;!!!

It's getting darker quick and the wind is starting to pick-up even more. Even so, they weekly Thursday race is still going on and we quickly pass it while "racing" home. They are heading towards Misery Island.

Well, I decide that main needs to come down know, before/if the storm really hits, so we turn on the motor, floor it, and I stow the main. As we enter the mouth of Salem Harbor at almost 7 kts, the rain starts and the wind is now in the 25 to 27 kt range. Once actually in the harbor the wind is often funneled and today is no exception. The wind instrument is now registering 32 kts and the boat starts to heel, WITHOUT ANY SAILS UP!!! I calmly suggest that the wife and girls head below to avoid the rain, but really didn't want them to see me sweat.

We are about 500 yards from the mooring, but I am really nervous that it will be too rough or windy to pick it up. It's not particularly rough seas yet, but a few more minutes of these high winds and it really will be. I also am worried about losing steerage as we need to turn with the wind and the boat will get blown down wind and may go faster than I can steer. The motor is at full throttle to try and maintain steerage and we are still moving along almost at hull speed. I notice some lightning on the horizon, so we got to move quick. The boat heels to almost 20 deg and a quick glance to the wind instrument shows 40 kts!! Can't look at that again, too stressful!

The turn&#8230;.downwind is made as late possible. It is quick and I am in control of the boat's steerage, for now. I yell instructions to my business buddy on where the mooring is and ask him if he remembers my instructions on how to pick up the mooring. He acknowledges and the rain really picks up. We turn up into the wind and are now 4 boat lengths from the mooring and I throttle down to keep us moving around 2 kts. We got one shot at this. 3 BL, 2BL, 1 Boat Length, 10 feet and then I put the motor in neutral. My friend yells back that he has the mooring stick. I give it a little forward throttle to help mainatin a little slack so he can cleat the mooring lines and then I put it back into neutral, lock the steering and run up to the bow to help him secure the lines. Both lines are on!! We are On-The-Hook!!

We get below and the brunt of the storm hits. We can hear the wind and the rain pound the boat. Microburst wind speeds were reported nearby of 70 mph. I call the Launch service and calmly say that when the storm abates to when it is safe, we are requesting a pick-up. They respond that that think it will be in 20 minutes and I say, we aren't going anywhere.

Later I learned that 4 boats were either swamped or flipped in five minutes just outside of the harbor and the Marblehead and Salem Harbormaster,s along with the Coasties, pulled about 7 people out of the water.

DrB


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## dgdvm1

smackdaddy said:


> Jody - I'll await confirmation from your "witness". And my sincere apologies for insulting your dog by comparing him/her to a VP candidate. That was just wrong.
> 
> Now back to my "weeeeeeeed....whites and wine" of a job.


Those weren't fish net stockings....they were actual fish nets (the smell should have given it away). I do have to confirm the story - one wouldn't think Jody would be enough cushion to save that Basset Hound but DeForrest was unscathed. And...I took that photo of his head - my aim is better than his.


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## smackdaddy

dg - welcome! I'm glad you backed the guy up. Now just post those pictures of the "hooker" and it's all good. That Jody - what a nut!


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## CharlieCobra

DrB, nicely handled. While I've never sailed under bare poles, I've heard that you can haul butt if the conditions are bad enough. I have seen Oh Joy heel 30* under bare poles at dockside once with the dock on the Leeward side. It was blowing 65 and gusting to 78 at that time though. I was so tired that once I figured out what that banging by my head was, I slept like a log.


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## smackdaddy

Nice BFS, DrB! I honestly had cotton mouth while reading it - remembering my launch fiasco previously mentioned herein. My crew kept asking me why I looked so "upset"- I told them I was just "focused" and to shut the hell up and go below. I was glad to see you employing the same tactic. Of course, after the cockpit was clear, I started crying like a school girl - seems like you held up better.

And great job on the writing by the way! The boat length countdown was pure genius. And the calm dare to the Launch Service to come pick you up in the midst of a microburst forcing them to say they're too scared? Classic.

Great sailing, man.


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## smackdaddy

JohnRPollard said:


> P.S. I'm surprised Beaufort replied at all. He's a fairly reclusive type, preferring to let his proxies defend the honor of his scale. You must have a persuasive way with words! If I have time, I will share a story about my first encounter with the Beaufort Scale.


John - yeah that Beaufort's a nut. Sounded like he had a wicked big party going on in the background at the time. He was hammered, slurring like a pig, so it was easy.

Okay - how about that encounter?


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## JohnRPollard

smackdaddy said:


> John - yeah that Beaufort's a nut. Sounded like he had a wicked big party going on in the background at the time. He was hammered, slurring like a pig, so it was easy.
> 
> Okay - how about that encounter?


Patience, grasshopper.


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## smackdaddy

JohnRPollard said:


> Patience, grasshopper.


Oh, I see, you haven't had the "encounter" yet. That's cool. We can wait. Just let us know.


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## davidpm

How big the freaking sail is depends on the boat. Three events conspired to create an "adventure". Let me set the stage.


Last year my friend the "Captain" bought his first boat a Catalina 27 and had sailed it only a few times around the local harbor buoys and he decided to do a day sail and "go some place". 
I got a beat up Hobie 16 that was sailable but rough.
My son now twenty something and working as a rigger at a local marina used to teach sailing for several season at the local town rec facility a few years ago. He fondly remembers sailing the Hobie 16 and wanted to go sailing with us but thought the Catalina 27 would be too boring and slow and wanted to follow (lead) in the Hobie.
The course chosen was from Westbrook in CT to Truman Beach in LI about 11 miles almost straight across the Long Island Sound.
The plan was for the Captain and his daughter (10 years old and fearless) would leave the Westbrook dock at the same time as my son and I would leave the beach where we keep the Hobie about six miles away. The plan was for me to jump ship (Hobie) mid ocean (actually by Duck Island) and assist in the sailing of the C27.

The day of the big sail the wind was a brisk 15 knots at our beach. Steve, my son and I started our trip. We were sheltered a lot by the land so had a great fast sail in the Hobie. By the time we got near the rendezvous point we could not find the Captain. I tried his cell phone and got his daughter. This was one of his first times out without me and the wind had picked up to closer to 20 knots and he was thinking of canceling the trip. He had dropped the sails and was motoring looking for us. We found each other with the help of his daughter and the cell phone and I abandoned Steve, the Hobie is too wet for me.
The wind held a good 20 knots plus and we flew across the sound. 

The following is a note of explanation for those who don't know how the Hobie 16 is setup. It has a trampoline about 12" off the water. The slightest ripple washes over the crew. There are no storage facilities, anything you don't want to loose you must lash down. The main halyard has a crimped on stopper that catches at the top of the mast. If you uncleat the halyard the main will not fall. You have to snap the halyard to release the catch at the top of the mast. I find this a tricky maneuver while on land. You have about 30" clearance between the tramp and the boom so even sitting is not safe from boom head collisions. It carries a whole lot of sail and flipping it over is very, very easy. It is way fun to sail.
​The wind was really too much for the Hobie with only 140lbs of crew. Steve tried main up jib down, main down jib up, he was getting the snot kicked out of him. How he was even able to change sails in those conditions I don't know. We finally made it to the beach and rested up a couple hours. On the way back the wind was coming about 40 degrees off from where we wanted to go, a really hard beat. The wind picked up now 25 gusting to 30 maybe more. The Cat27 was doing fine of course but poor Steve was underwater a good share of the time. He had filled his backpack with rocks from the beach to get a little more ballast but that didn't work out because on a Hobie you need the ballast but it has to move or it will actually help tip the boat over. For about one second he considered wearing the backpack but for obvious reasons dumped the rocks. We are getting further and further ahead. A tug boat cuts across our stern blocking my view of him about a mile behind.
Now Steve is about 24 and about thee times stronger than me and has lots more time on the water than me. He can climb to the top of a 50 foot mast by just grabbing the halyard and walking up the mast (this trick is not allowed at work though). In short is more than capable of taking care of himself. But the father responsibility thing is hard to shake so yes I was worried. Now it's getting dark and starting to rain and the chop is getting worse. I see him change course to starboard and he calls me on the cell (how do you make a cell call in those conditions?) and says he is heading for the nearest land and will call me when he lands. We turn the motor on because the wind is directly from our destination and it's wet and uncomfortable and head for home.

Steve beaches the boat near Lynde Point in Old Saybrook Lynde Point Lighthouse, Old Saybrook, Connecticut.
This is an exclusive neighborhood of multi-million dollar beach homes. So just at dusk seriously beat-up Steve is trying to find a public road in the midst of all these estates. A guy yells at him _"Hey what are you doing this is private property you are trespassing"_. Steve yells back, _"I'm not trespassing I'm shipwrecked"_. Apparently they don't get too many shipwrecked mariners on their private beaches any more. The guy was cool however, and gives Steve a lift to the public road where his girl friend picked him up.
Of course now I'm missing one Hobie 16.

The next morning I take my truck and trailer and drop it off at the boat launch about three miles up the Connecticut River. The Captain takes the two of us in his car looking for the Hobie. If you are going to "park" your boat someplace at night, next to a light house is a good choice. After traveling several wrong driveways and telling our story to very suspicious wealthy homeowners. "Just why are you prowling around my driveway again". We finally find the boat. Steve and I sail the somewhat mangled boat, jib traveler tore up etc, to the ramp and hauled her home.

*So the same conditions were:*

A little scary but ok for a new captain.
Lots of fun for a slightly more experienced sailor
Big worry for a dad
A fun outing for 10 year old girl
A major struggle to stay on deck for an experienced sailor in a small boat


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## JohnRPollard

smackdaddy said:


> Oh, I see, you haven't had the "encounter" yet. That's cool. We can wait. Just let us know.


You got me there, Smackdaddy.

But with the forecast tomorrow, I'm hoping to finally cast off the docklines and raise sails on our boat for the first time ever, if I can figure out how. Weather service is calling for a gale on the Chesapeake, which says to me "reef", I think. Anybody care to walk me through the process, recognizing that this will be our first time hoisting the sails on any boat?

National Weather Service Marine Forecast

P.S. Just joking here.


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## CharlieCobra

It's all about perspective. I've been out in stuff on Oh Joy that I wouldn't dream of sailing in on the V-21, no way, no how. The same air that would put Oh Joy's rail right to the water and make 7.5 knots of fun, would be 1.5 knots slower and much more comfortable and boring on ccam's Hans Christian 33. Of course, I carry 200 sq ft more sail and have half his displacement. Which would I rather sail in the shyte? Either would work for me cause I know what Oh Joy can handle and it looks like the HC 33 would do nicely as well.


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## CharlieCobra

JohnRPollard said:


> You got me there, Smackdaddy.
> 
> But with the forecast tomorrow, I'm hoping to finally cast off the docklines and raise sails on our boat for the first time ever, if I can figure out how. Weather service is calling for a gale on the Chesapeake, which says to me "reef", I think. Anybody care to walk me through the process, recognizing that this will be our first time hoisting the sails on our boat?
> 
> National Weather Service Marine Forecast


I take it this boat is new to you? Does it have jiffy reefing, where ya pull and cleat one line? I'd set the reef as I raised the Main, maybe put two in to start. you can always let a reef out later if it's too much. What size is your Genny/Jib? If it's anything over a 120, ya probably don't wanna fly it in anything over 25 knots or you'll be overpowered and possibly shred the sail. I flew my 150 in winds up to 40 knots before it finally weakened enough to shred in 25 knots one night. What rig do ya have on the boat and what Headsails?


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## JohnRPollard

CharlieCobra said:


> I take it this boat is new to you? Does it have jiffy reefing, where ya pull and cleat one line? I'd set the reef as I raised the Main, maybe put two in to start. you can always let a reef out later if it's too much. What size is your Genny/Jib? If it's anything over a 120, ya probably don't wanna fly it in anything over 25 knots or you'll be overpowered and possibly shred the sail. I flew my 150 in winds up to 40 knots before it finally weakened enough to shred in 25 knots one night. What rig do ya have on the boat and what Headsails?


Ooops. Charlie, sorry about that, but I was just kidding around with SmackDaddy. I should have added some smilies or something so no one would think I was serious. I appreciate you taking the time to offer help, and I apologize for the misunderstanding. I'll go back and add some smilies.


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## CharlieCobra

No problem John. Just looking to assist.


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## chucklesR

Not enough catamaran's on this thread, and trust me folks with 690 sq ft (no spin, just fore and main) of sail up on a 33.5 ft boat, 10000 pound boat, I got your BFS.
I don't have the fancy Photoshop skills so I can't draw lines and such to show the angle of heel that almost spilled my drink, but I assure your that the 6 inch chop whipped up by the 10kt breeze I had to endure was sufficient to spill the sacred Rum and get one of my rails damp. The other rail was definitely wet with condensation - at the same time.








Later, the wind picked up to an absolutely whistling 12knts (true mind you, so add boat speed of three zillion knots, do the vector math and it at least 13 kts apparent) I was on a beam under full sail with serious BFS up and the characteristic twin wake throwing a plume behind me when I decided it was time to fall off and run from the obvious storm chasing my wake so I deployed my sea anchor's to slow me down to a manageable speed:








Afterwards, when the wind had died down to a more reasonable speed of 10kts I again turned to a beam heading and that my friends and fellow thrill junkies is when it hit with a vengeance







Like I said, I can't draw lines and such - but I estimate a solid 5 degrees of heel, my rubber bottomed Newport cup actually leaned into the side of the cup holder and forced me to move it. I had to put down my book and take a walk on my back porch to see what the commotion was. Fortunately I took my camera with me and snapped this shot of my cockpit in total disarray







Look at how my chair actually slid to port with the monster angle of heel, notice the EMPTY cup holder. Notice the Admiral is actually grasping the side of the salon table for balance, she almost had to stop reading.

My God, we were lucky that day.


----------



## smackdaddy

Davidpm - Awesome BFS! I see your point about the size of the boat and motion of the ocean. Kind of reminded me of Jody's story - heh, heh. Just kidding.

Anyway, I'm actually liking the idea of the Hobie. It does look like a hell of a lot of fun - in tandem with a bigger boat. And I think I'm going to recommend the "rocks in a backpack" pfd to some of the guys over in AFOC. What's the rating on that device anyway?

Finally, it appears that the C27 is just plain unsinkable. If all of us greenhorn sailors around the world can repeatedly take these things out in conditions we have no business being out in - then actually bring them home every time, there must be something to them - despite the knocks they get from salts. Must be that 9 feet of freeboard Charlie.

Catalinas ROCK you full keelers!!!!


----------



## Giulietta

Chuck..there is no "merda de boi" in your post..please remove it...

This thread for "merda de boi" only.

Besides it's Big sails as in the verb, not he noun....

OK?

Now do some "merda de boi" if you want to post here.

PS..remember the blue giant?? that was fun..huh?


----------



## smackdaddy

Chickles - that was the scariest damn thing I've ever seen. I still have cotton mouth from the incredible lameness of those photos. I'm just glad you're okay - and that your boat doesn't actually require anyone at the helm to float around the inlet in those harrowing conditions (kind of like the inflatable mattresses). Nice LFS dude. No MDB.


----------



## sailortjk1

This place stinks of "Merda".
(I just like saying Merda. Carry on Smacky)


----------



## smackdaddy

Giu - ya know, I gotta say, so far Charlie wins the award for a no-MDB photo of a truly gnarly sail. I've seen a lot of photos and videos around this dump - and that one is just freakin' big...and real. Photo - happened. 

And by the way, I watched the steering without a rudder video again yesterday - since I'm sure I'll sail mine right off very soon - and those videos are really good learning tools. Kudos! However, I have to say that in that particular video, when you're releasing the traveller back to lee - your deck looks like a junkyard dude. Lines snarling all over the place - that's just plain dangerous! I could trip and fall into the ocean or something if I was slobbering drunk and trying to head to the stern for a wee.


----------



## chucklesR

Smack,
This is what 1500 sq ft of assym spin looks like in about 25 knts of wind. Courtesy of Giu's boat this past June, with me, my Admiral (MMR on sailnet) and one other sailnet member's Admiral (Valiente's wife, Becky) sailing Guiletta.
We put the spin in the water SEVEN times that day, and once put the carbon fiber boom three feet into the water. We averaged 10.5 kts which on his 12 meter means we were on plane most of the time.
We didn't have a white knuckle moment because we had a competent and confident skipper - Alex's son Fred.


----------



## smackdaddy

Wow - that is definitely one big freakin' sail! But - as Giu correctly pointed out - we're looking for the verb form. If it ain't in the photo - it just didn't happen. MDB.

Wait - on closer inspection - that horizon line does look pretty tilty. Is that photoshop?


----------



## CharlieCobra

Absolutely gorgeous. Getting the cute wet offwind is fun ain't it?

Unfortunately, we didn't have enough air to get mine wet this time and I didn't have a camera handy the one time we did.


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - he's too modest to do it, so I'm going to have to. Here's a BFS from a monster sailor who shall remain nameless (at least by me). Hard to argue with this one.

15 Freakin' Knots. BFS.


----------



## cardiacpaul

Charlie, 
WTF, Over?


----------



## chucklesR

Smack, 
I do not own photoshop and we were all a little busy when we broached, no photo's but do have 4 sailnet members as witnesses (Alex, Fred, me, MMR).

The best part of that day was as we were coming into the port.
25+ of stink, screaming along at 11+ knts there was a freighter coming in just outside the seawall, Alex took the helm did a tack, heave to, tack and jibe in about 3 minutes and looped around astern of it as if he was on his boat with his normal 11 man race crew - mind you in 6-8 ft swell and 25+ of wind with a couple Admirals, one heel impaired catamaraner and his kid as crew

Then he pointed up and put the boat at 45 degrees of heel and close hauled thru the inlet doing 11-12 knts until we were 100 meters into the harbor, told me to take the helm and went up and dropped his seriously BFS main sail in like 20 seconds as we rounded up into the wind.

The port we went into had a regatta scheduled for that day canceled on account of too much wind. His motor didn't run except inside the harbor.

Shame there are no pictures, we were sort of busy.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Flag halyard, Port side on the Mizzen.


----------



## smackdaddy

Why it's a climbing/mountaineering implement called a piton, CP! C'mon - do you think a guy like Charlie just sails for his fun? Strap on a bosun's seat, grab some extra sheet line and take on K2 - baby! Just bring back photos or it didn't happen.


----------



## CharlieCobra

I don't climb anymore. One 150' bouncing fall down a sandstone cliff face finished that for me some years ago. I don't jump out of perfectly good helicopters and airplanes anymore either, the knees can't take it. It sucks getting older...


----------



## chucklesR

It took some serious digging but the challenge has been met, here I am sailing along fearlessly in company of sea monsters.
Full sail up and cruising right into their maws. Not an ounce of photoshop in this picture.


----------



## smackdaddy

chucklesR said:


> Smack,
> I do not own photoshop and we were all a little busy when we broached, no photo's but do have 4 sailnet members as witnesses (Alex, Fred, me, MMR).
> 
> The best part of that day was as we were coming into the port.
> 25+ of stink, screaming along at 11+ knts there was a freighter coming in just outside the seawall, Alex took the helm did a tack, heave to, tack and jibe in about 3 minutes and looped around astern of it as if he was on his boat with his normal 11 man race crew - mind you in 6-8 ft swell and 25+ of wind with a couple Admirals, one heel impaired catamaraner and his kid as crew
> 
> Then he pointed up and put the boat at 45 degrees of heel and close hauled thru the inlet doing 11-12 knts until we were 100 meters into the harbor, told me to take the helm and went up and dropped his seriously BFS main sail in like 20 seconds as we rounded up into the wind.
> 
> The port we went into had a regatta scheduled for that day canceled on account of too much wind. His motor didn't run except inside the harbor.
> 
> Shame there are no pictures, we were sort of busy.


Yeah - I was just kiddin' you Chuckles. But you do bring up the Achilles' Heel (or lack thereof in wimpy wind) of the whole photo/happen rule. Either you're a guy like Giu - who seems to have his own cadre of paparazzi that can chronicle his every epic sail - or you're like us normal people who have to whiteknuckle the tiller/wheel with one hand, release the straining jib sheat with the other, take a quick slug of booze, grab the Hasselblad 50MP, wait for the next set of 30' breakers to throw the boat to just right angle, focus with your pinky as you go airborne into the boom, snap the shot, look at the lcd screen to make sure it's radical enough for BFS, hit save, stow the camera back in its dry bag, take another hit of booze, then grab that jib sheat that flying sideways in the 80 knot breeze. It does take some practice.


----------



## smackdaddy

Chuckles, you've just made every super-newbie out there much more comfortable about sharing their BFS. And for those newbies, I must remind you of the title of this thread since Chuckles just defamed it...

It's NOT Big Freakin' Swans*.

(give me a break on the duck-duck-goose crap - comedic license)


----------



## CharlieCobra

smackdaddy said:


> Yeah - I was just kiddin' you Chuckles. But you do bring up the Achilles' Heel (or lack thereof in wimpy wind) of the whole photo/happen rule. Either you're a guy like Giu - who seems to have his own cadre of paparazzi that can chronicle his every epic sail - or you're like us normal people who have to whiteknuckle the tiller/wheel with one hand, release the straining jib sheat with the other, take a quick slug of booze, grab the Hasselblad 50MP, wait for the next set of 30' breakers to throw the boat to just right angle, focus with your pinky as you go airborne into the boom, snap the shot, look at the lcd screen to make sure it's radical enough for BFS, hit save, stow the camera back in its dry bag, take another hit of booze, then grab that jib sheat that flying sideways in the 80 knot breeze. It does take some practice.


There are worse sails of mine that are not on Photobucket or Youtube simply because either there was no camera in reach or I was too damned busy to take any shots/vids. That little cruise where the Admiral and I got slammed abeam is a case in point. The camera was in the house and she was too busy holding on to get it and too scared to use it or bring it out to me even if she had it in her hands. Sometimes there ain't no time to take pics.


----------



## smackdaddy

Sadly - for me - my photos on Sailnet are the gnarliest I've got so far. But, hey, I'm working on it! Anyway - a good sailing story has to have a bit of the old MDB sprinkled around. It's like MSG for tale-telling.

PS - Dad, I just noticed your sticky about Multiple "Signons" - can guys really have those? I thought they were just a myth. I mean I know some can fake them - but...maybe that one should be Off Topic.


----------



## smackdaddy

Speaking of chop and slop - here's a BFS from another modest sailor.

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-7194945629958867925&hl=en&fs=true


----------



## smackdaddy

And finally, another cool contribution from a modest sailor - but it just tells the whole BFS story, man. From a book called "A Race for Real Sailors":

"During the long thrash to windward, every vessel sailed on her lee rail, with deck buried to the hatches. Huge seas broke continually over the staunch flyers and swept the decks. The brave, laboring craft would roll under surging seas to the second and third ratlines; then would follow awful moments of suspense, as the unflinching crew, with teeth set and hands clenched, watched to see if their craft would stagger up again, or go down under her grievous load. Desperate as the chances were, not a vessel luffed or reefed, as to be the first to reef would make her the laughing stock of the town, and there was not a skipper in the fleet who would not carry away both sticks rather than be branded as a coward."

Of course, all of this took place in a duck pond with Chuckles at the "helm" (read remote control) - so it's complete MDB.


----------



## knothead

cardiacpaul said:


> Charlie,
> WTF, Over?


Rigger's little buddy.


----------



## CharlieCobra

knothead said:


> Rigger's little buddy.


I've actually got those on all four flag halyards and also attached to two of the shrouds forward. They work great, like a mini belaying pin.


----------



## T34C

charlie- You have a total of 6 flag halyards? Are you planning to host the next session of the UN?


----------



## painkiller

Here's my best BFS video. Things got pretty crazy towards the end.


----------



## sailortjk1

CharlieCobra said:


> Absolutely gorgeous. Getting the cute wet offwind is fun ain't it?
> 
> Unfortunately, we didn't have enough air to get mine wet this time and I didn't have a camera handy the one time we did.


Charlie CC,
Is that a chute or are you just happy to be sailing?
Where is the pole? Looks more like a Genaker.


----------



## CharlieCobra

T34C said:


> charlie- You have a total of 6 flag halyards? Are you planning to host the next session of the UN?


She's an old boat, I guess they used to fly more flags and burgees back then.


----------



## CharlieCobra

sailortjk1 said:


> Charlie CC,
> Is that a chute or are you just happy to be sailing?
> Where is the pole? Looks more like a Genaker.


Asymmetrical cruising chute. I don't have a standard spinnaker or pole but I do have the old bronze track with no car on the Mainmast.

I can use it like a Giant Genny if the wind is aft of about 60* though. The wind was just aft of the beam and very light here, barely enough to fill it.


----------



## smackdaddy

Welcome Pain - just one word for that freakin' sail....BIG! It looked so calm and boring for the first 6-8 minutes or so then...BAM! How did you live through that dude? Then again - I guess if you knew what to look for you could see it coming between minutes 2-4. Kudos, man, kudos.


----------



## painkiller

smackdaddy said:


> Welcome Pain - just one word for that freakin' sail....BIG! It looked so calm and boring for the first 6-8 minutes or so then...BAM! How did you live through that dude? Then again - I guess if you knew what to look for you could see it coming between minutes 2-4. Kudos, man, kudos.


Well, I don't normally like to brag...


----------



## smackdaddy

BTW - Pain, was it just the video quality or were your eyebrows actually getting thicker with the mounting stress?


----------



## bestfriend

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## smackdaddy

bestfriend said:


> Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Welcome bestfriend! Not the best BSF we've had - but a great effort for your first post! And, I really don't mean to be critical, but you misspelled that. Left out a "z". We all look forward to your next adventure from _SV Narcolepsy_!


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - as we end another day, there are still some open questions on sailing technique that have been discussed in this thread. Charlie, John, Jody, etc. have given some good answers, but these questions still remain somewhat open-ended. What say you salts?

2. Sailing into the slip: How about some tips on this. I've been practicing heaving to in open water - but I'm not yet confident enough to sail in. One of the issues is that with our water down, there's a bottle neck in our marina that leaves maybe 8 feet on either side of our boat coming in/out (with boats on either side). Would that bother the salts out there? Or is that nothing? Giu - you need to get us a video of this (if you haven't already). They've been great tools.

3. The decision to fall off or beat in big wind and waves: When/how is this decision made? In other words, there's the comfort variable in choosing to beat or not in the world of daysailing (when you have the luxury to choose). But I assume that goes out the hatch pretty quickly in a storm. And I understand at some point that the wind and the sea will make the decision for you. But what about the in between. What drives the decision and how do you prepare?

PS - Giu - your heaving-to technique is absolutely great. Seriously. I had been taught the "S" technique which works pretty well, but takes you pretty far away from the half-empty rum bottle dropped overboard. We practiced your technique the other night and it was rock solid. Thanks.


----------



## bestfriend

smackdaddy said:


> Welcome bestfriend! Not the best BSF we've had - but a great effort for your first post! And, I really don't mean to be critical, but you misspelled that. Left out a "z". We all look forward to your next adventure from _SV Narcolepsy_!


.................Z


----------



## bestfriend

First question. Depends on which way the wind is. If you are tacking upwind into the marina, tack your way in. Powerboaters, sailboats under power, and sailboats going DDW should stay to their right, or your left. Tack normally until you get close to passing them, then short tack if you are on starboard or just stay to the right and tack slow if you are on port tack. If you are DDW coming into the marina, stay to the right, go to the end of the fairway, turn upwind, drop the sails.

Next question depends on how much time you have and which direction you want to go in and for how long. Easier on the boat and you to sail off wind, and can be faster. Beating for a long time really sucks.

Hmm, the in between time? The in between time is the time you should be making your move. The calm time is when you should be reading your charts, studying the weather patterns, and determining which way to head if a storm is coming. Do you outrun it, run for cover, head for the softer side of it? All things you need to learn, and experience plays a huge role in that.


----------



## craigtoo

painkiller said:


> Here's my best BFS video. Things got pretty crazy towards the end.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Absolutely.. RIVETING...
> 
> Loved it.
> 
> Thanks


----------



## sailaway21

craigtoo said:


> painkiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my best BFS video. Things got pretty crazy towards the end.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Absolutely.. RIVETING...
> 
> Loved it.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We_ are_ watching the same video or did I just miss a tongue in cheek comment?
Click to expand...


----------



## Giulietta

Pain..by the mast, there is a rope, normally has colours...it goes up the mast, then down..if you pull it down, the big white cloth goes up...Pull as hard as you can, till the cloth is all up there...

Next there should be another rope, that unrolls the other cloth at the front...

Then on the extremity there is another rope that is divided in two..yes you guessed it..one on each side of the mast...

Try to put the boat sideways to the wind...if you look up the mast there is a liitle arrow that tells you where the wind is coming from..

Pull on the rope of the fron cloth, on the side opposite from where the wind is blowing....now, over your head, there is a metal tube, attached to it, halfway thru there is another rope..try to center the metal tube with the boat..not too tight...

See??? the boat is now moving....stop the engine...

We call that sailing...try it...you will like it...

PS..next time, make sure you call at least one or two marinas in your path....and buy the lights too...

Good luck....

PS2 the compass points North...

Hey..are you by any chance related to Hoffalives??


----------



## Valiente

If this is what you call a "big freakin' sail", I pity your wives and girlfriends....

And if _that _is the famous Chesapeake Bay...good grief, it looks like the Atlantic off Portugal...like a mirror...


----------



## painkiller

sailaway21 said:


> craigtoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> We_ are_ watching the same video or did I just miss a tongue in cheek comment?
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm. Sounds like you didn't catch the end. Watch it again. This time, pay particular attention to the background.
Click to expand...


----------



## painkiller

Valiente said:


> If this is what you call a "big freakin' sail", I pity your wives and girlfriends....
> 
> And if _that _is the famous Chesapeake Bay...good grief, it looks like the Atlantic off Portugal...like a mirror...


And you're not even getting the best part: the humidity. That never translates through video.


----------



## sailortjk1

I missed it too.
I thought this was a thread about sailing.
Just giving you a little love this morning Pain.


----------



## T34C

painkiller said:


> sailaway21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm. Sounds like you didn't catch the end. Watch it again. This time, pay particular attention to the background.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather have an elective root canal.
> 
> I'm surprised even YouTube didn't reject that one!
Click to expand...


----------



## painkiller

Giulietta said:


> Pain..by the mast, there is a rope, normally has colours...it goes up the mast, then down..if you pull it down, the big white cloth goes up...Pull as hard as you can, till the cloth is all up there...
> 
> Next there should be another rope, that unrolls the other cloth at the front...
> 
> Then on the extremity there is another rope that is divided in two..yes you guessed it..one on each side of the mast...
> 
> Try to put the boat sideways to the wind...if you look up the mast there is a liitle arrow that tells you where the wind is coming from..
> 
> Pull on the rope of the fron cloth, on the side opposite from where the wind is blowing....now, over your head, there is a metal tube, attached to it, halfway thru there is another rope..try to center the metal tube with the boat..not too tight...
> 
> See??? the boat is now moving....stop the engine...
> 
> We call that sailing...try it...you will like it...
> 
> PS..next time, make sure you call at least one or two marinas in your path....and buy the lights too...
> 
> Good luck....
> 
> PS2 the compass points North...
> 
> Hey..are you by any chance related to Hoffalives??


Wait. The rope that goes up the pole and back down again? That operates the puppet. When I yank up and down on it, the blue-green bag near the pole kinda jumps up and down. It gives me the willies.


----------



## T34C

CharlieCobra said:


> She's an old boat, I guess they used to fly more flags and burgees back then.


You do know you can put multiple flags on the same halyard, right?


----------



## JohnRPollard

Painkiller,

That was hilarious.  I was chuckling the entire time -- the soundtrack alone hit a funny bone for me, not to mention the hour-by-hour updates on your progress under power. 

I saw many Bay landmarks that I haven't seen lately -- thanks to your circuitous route on your way down to Flag Harbor! Which, by the way, what do you draw? That's pretty shallow in there, isn't it?

Congrats on the new boat!


----------



## painkiller

JohnRPollard said:


> Painkiller,
> 
> That was hilarious.  I was chuckling the entire time -- the soundtrack alone hit a funny bone for me, not to mention the hour-by-hour updates on your progress under power.
> 
> I saw many Bay landmarks that I haven't seen lately -- thanks to your circuitous route on your way down to Flag Harbor! Which, by the way, what do you draw? That's pretty shallow in there, isn't it?
> 
> Congrats on the new boat!


 

Thanks, John! But now I feel kinda bad. That's not actually me. I found that video browsing YouTube a while ago and thought it was the most boring thing I'd ever seen. The whole time I sat there watching it, I was thinking to myself "Is this guy kidding? Is this it? It took him 3 days to go 90 miles under power in flat conditions? And he burned through an entire tank of diesel doing that??". Actually, I assume he's burning diesel, but he referred to it as "gas" in the video. I sure hope he put the right stuff in his tank.

Being the generous person that I am, I just had to share!! You're welcome!


----------



## JohnRPollard

painkiller said:


> Thanks, John! But now I feel kinda bad. That's not actually me. I found that video browsing YouTube a while ago and thought it was the most boring thing I'd ever seen. The whole time I sat there watching it, I was thinking to myself "Is this guy kidding? Is this it? It took him 3 days to go 90 miles under power in flat conditions? And he burned through an entire tank of diesel doing that??". Actually, I assume he's burning diesel, but he referred to it as "gas" in the video. I sure hope he put the right stuff in his tank.
> 
> Being the generous person that I am, I just had to share!! You're welcome!


Oh man, jokes on me I guess, but now it's even funnier!!  

That guy did have an uncanny resemblence to your avatar photo, didn't he though?


----------



## painkiller

JohnRPollard said:


> That guy did have an uncanny resemblence to your avatar photo, didn't he though?


Yes, but he's missing my trademark smile. 

This video isn't sailing related, but it's another one where you have to wait until the end to get the joke: magical trevor - Weebl's Stuff

Enjoy. ;-)


----------



## smackdaddy

Or you're missing his unibrow. It could go either way.

I'd say you just punked half of AFOC. Good job, dude. BFP!

Hey, how the hell did you get 2 reps?


----------



## smackdaddy

bestfriend said:


> First question. Depends on which way the wind is. If you are tacking upwind into the marina, tack your way in. Powerboaters, sailboats under power, and sailboats going DDW should stay to their right, or your left. Tack normally until you get close to passing them, then short tack if you are on starboard or just stay to the right and tack slow if you are on port tack. If you are DDW coming into the marina, stay to the right, go to the end of the fairway, turn upwind, drop the sails.
> 
> Next question depends on how much time you have and which direction you want to go in and for how long. Easier on the boat and you to sail off wind, and can be faster. Beating for a long time really sucks.
> 
> Hmm, the in between time? The in between time is the time you should be making your move. The calm time is when you should be reading your charts, studying the weather patterns, and determining which way to head if a storm is coming. Do you outrun it, run for cover, head for the softer side of it? All things you need to learn, and experience plays a huge role in that.


Bestfriend - thanks for the feedback. Good stuff. As I work toward ocean sailing I have to say that it's pretty sobering thinking about a situation like that. The consensus being - do everything you possibly can to never run into the situation - then be prepared when you do. I'm all over that.

Also, on the slip sailing - I'm starting to think it's just not possible at our small marina, at least for guys like me. The waterway at it's widest is maybe 60 feet - and narrows down to a 16 foot bottleneck before we get to our slip. There's no way I could tack in that without causing AIG more pain (not that they can feel it at this point). I'll just go to a different marina and sail into someone else's slip. Then if I hammer other boats - who cares? I'll tell them my name is Alex.


----------



## CharlieCobra

T34C said:


> You do know you can put multiple flags on the same halyard, right?


Yes but I didn't build the boat, she came that way.


----------



## painkiller

*Poignant BFS Story*

One of my favorite things to do is to go out in a stiff breeze aboard someone else's boat, preferably with more than just me and the skipper aboard. When the skipper goes down below to use the head, I wait a few seconds for things to start flowing, then I sheet in REAL tight and come up to a beat to get the boat as far over on its ear as possible. This, of course, takes the skipper by surprise and causes him to have to pee uphill, sometimes drastically so. Sometimes a tack is required to accomplish this.

When the cursing from down below stops, I hand the tiller over to some unwitting dupe, take a position on the rail far from the means of steering, and affect an air of supreme innocence. Sometimes a dose of pensive horizon-gazing is required to complete the illusion.

This doesn't work so well on your own boat for obvious reasons (relating to having to clean up).


----------



## Giulietta

Pain...if that wasn't you..show me a photo of you ...the real you...


----------



## painkiller

Giulietta said:


> Pain...if that wasn't you..show me a photo of you ...the real you...


      Uh huh. Sure, I'll get right on that.


----------



## painkiller

smackdaddy said:


> Hey, how the hell did you get 2 reps?


Hey, just saw the question in that post. I have no idea how or when I got the rep points. I've been nothing but a smart-ass. I'm not even sure what they're for. Maybe someone appreciates some good smartassery.


----------



## Stillraining

OK Smack-a-doodal.. Our first sail...can you say VERB BABY

Irwin 41 with genny alone in 10 to 12 kts of wind

My first video too...ever...so dont laugh


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## knothead

Stillraining said:


> OK Smack-a-doodal.. Our first sail...can you say VERB BABY
> 
> Irwin 41 with genny alone in 10 to 12 kts of wind
> 
> My first video too...ever...so dont laugh


Whadda mean. "Don't get me"? Can Gui photoshop videos too?


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## craigtoo

Rainy!

"Don't get me!" 

??

You're trying to maintain that image of "Olympic Wrestler" that everyone has of you'????


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## Giulietta

*BWAHAHAHAHAHA*

Don't get me...ahahahah

When I first saw I thought I understood, don't hit me....

Ahahahaha he posts all over Sailnet, then gets camera shy...

Hey Still remember you saw your mug already???

You ca't fool us....uh uh....

BTW..nice Cher T shirt...


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## smackdaddy

Rain, dude that is so verb! Ignore those visigoths above. They got nothin'.

It looks like you're honkin' along pretty well with just a genny doing the tug. Nice. I think GUI was almost going that fast in some of his videos under full canvass - even with the Jolly Blue Giant. You should get Cam to sticky that one so Giu can take notes. He is so noun these days.

Hey - what's it like sailing a center cockpit? I suppose all the lines run to center - but what about working the traveller, etc.? That looks like very different sailing to the us afters.


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## T34C

smackdaddy said:


> - but what about working the traveller, etc.? That looks like very different sailing to the us afters.


smacky- works the same, you just have to turn a bit to reach it.
You want a BFS, read this one: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...-related/42817-simonvs-journey-australia.html

Rain- Was the boogie man running the camera that day?????


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## smackdaddy

Hey T! Welcome dude! Is yours CC as well? I can't remember the picture.

Got BFS (I mean your own)?


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## CharlieCobra

Nice little run Scott, good to see ya finally got her in the water, been a long time comin'. Ya looked to be doing around 6 knots there, not bad with just the headsail up.


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## CharlieCobra

Speaking of BFS's, I talked to ccam yesterday evening when he was about 10 miles off the gate in pea soup fog. From the sounds of it, they caught some Gales around Mendocino and spent a night hove-to. The buoy's showed waves to 18' with 8 sec periods at the time so I imagine he had fun. He said he did get the rail wet this time. I'll try to get him up here later today.


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## T34C

smackdaddy said:


> Hey T! Welcome dude! Is yours CC as well? I can't remember the picture.
> 
> Got BFS (I mean your own)?


Thanks. No

and Yes.


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## Stillraining

I new thoes words would haunt me as soon as I uttered them..

I told my youngest to shoot that thing and when I glanced back she had the dumb thing pointed at me..Kind of took me by surprise..total waste of film in my opinion.

Nice Alex...but Im really a winter....You have to have girls to understand..


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## CharlieCobra

I've got three, the youngest is 20. Tell me about it.


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## bestfriend

Here is the other video that Simon and I did, I don't think it got posted in that thread linked above. No BFS here, just a below average day on the Bay, but we had fun!

Stand by, gotta get the right link.

http://i178.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid178.photobucket.com/albums/w241/eastbaylostboys/MyGreatMovie.flv


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## CharlieCobra

That looks like a nice sail. Simon's boat definitely sails flatter than mine. 6.5 knots on Oh Joy almost puts the rail in the water.


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## Giulietta

CharlieCobra said:


> 6.5 knots on Oh Joy almost puts the rail in the water.


My boat heels because of the wind not because of the speed...   

Ahh 6.5 knots of wind you mean??


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## bestfriend

I think he means if there is enough wind to get him going 6.5 knots, the rail will be in the water. In that video there aren't any white caps, so I think the wind was around 10-12 knots and we were getting up to 7 knots speed. But I think Charlie has the rail in the water when he is sitting at the dock.


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## smackdaddy

Lovely T.

Okay - heading out tomorrow for another rail dunk attempt. 35 degrees didn't do it - so I'm just going to have to pin her down and snap the photo - then get all my guests back on board. It'll be a good GOB drill. Hey - anyone out there actually kept a rail in the water on a Catalina? I have to qualify that as wakes and waves don't count.

Speaking of pinning her down - I read the story about the 4 female racers who got spanked then rescued off the Cali coast. 25-31, spinnaker up, no tethers, no pfds. I obviously won't hammer on the ladies (except for the pfds - I mean c'mon) as I'd probably be trying the same. And I have to give props to the one they left behind - gritty chick that one. But - the most interesting thing to me is the issue about tethers a couple of posts down from the story. It makes me wonder, if a tether is going to drown you at 5+ knots, what's the point? Do you just use a short tether when you're out in the spit? What's the deal?


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## Giulietta

Smack..

every time you're on your own or with anyone inexperienced, you should use the tether, and PFD.

It should be tied in such a way that under no circunstance if you fall over you should fall in the water. If your boat is going at over 4 knots you will die...no one can resist the water pressure. it's betetr you bang your body all over, but stay over the water.

I attach mine either to the traveller while in the cockpit, or to the boom above.

If I have to go forward, I use dedicated lines.


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## T34C

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - heading out tomorrow for another rail dunk attempt. 35 degrees didn't do it - so I'm just going to have to pin her down and snap the photo - then get all my guests back on board. It'll be a good GOB drill. Hey - anyone out there actually kept a rail in the water on a Catalina? I have to qualify that as wakes and waves don't count.


smacky- It's hard to say, since most of the Catalina's around here are basically floating condos that are rarely seen not tied to a dock. If you want to increase your odds of safely getting your rail wet, I would recommend 2 things. 1) stay in the slip. 2) Attach you spare halyard to the finger pier on the far side of your slip.
With the sails up, put a couple turns of that halyard on a winch and crank it until you reach the desired angle of heel. Get out your camera and fire away! (Remember to look like you're having to really hold on tight.)


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## Stillraining

Giulietta said:


>


Hey Alex....Thats a pretty cool trick...You reach down Give Louis a cookie and he spins the wheel till you give him another..


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## sailingdog

I'm actually more impressed by how he tilts the planet to match the boat...


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## painkiller

T34C said:


> smacky- It's hard to say, since most of the Catalina's around here are basically floating condos that are rarely seen not tied to a dock. If you want to increase your odds of safely getting your rail wet, I would recommend 2 things. 1) stay in the slip. 2) Attach you spare halyard to the finger pier on the far side of your slip.
> With the sails up, put a couple turns of that halyard on a winch and crank it until you reach the desired angle of heel. Get out your camera and fire away! (Remember to look like you're having to really hold on tight.)


If you want to have a LOT of fun, try pulling down a furled jib alone on a windy day when the boat is up on jackstands. It adds a whole new dynamic to heeling. Don't ask me how I know. (Ruined a good pair of pants)...


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## Giulietta

painkiller said:


> try pulling down a furled jib alone on a windy day when the boat is up on jackstands. It adds a whole new dynamic to heeling. Don't ask me how I know. (Ruined a good pair of pants)...


It is you here, isn't it??

I know it is you..don't lie





[/QUOTE]


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## painkiller

Giulietta said:


> It is you here, isn't it??
> 
> I know it is you..don't lie


I see what you're doing. You're trying to goad me into posting a picture of myself to prove that I'm not boring-video-guy. I know your Jedi-photoshop skills and it won't work!


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## Valiente

painkiller said:


> Uh huh. Sure, I'll get right on that.


He's onto you, Alex.


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## smackdaddy

Giu - thanks for the tether vid. Very "edutainment" kind of vibe. I think, personally, my favorite part was right at the end where you start trying to make the old hand/armpit flatulence sounds. I'm not really sure what that has to do with tether theory (maybe a Portugese celebratory dance after each successful tack?) - but I do know it works a lot better if you put your hand _under_ your fleece - at least here in the U.S.

Pain - be afraid. Be very afraid. Actually I just think Giu refuses to believe he got so severely punked by you.

Valiente - welcome! We're waiting with bated breath (except for T - his is actual baited breath) for your BFS! What ya got, dude?

T - I'm trying, man, I'm really trying. Ahm....ahh....ahm...thanks for your...ahmm...ahhh....witty.....ahhh....contribution. Stay in the slip. Heh. Yeah. Heh.

Yo! Newbies! Throw down some BFS, baby! We're counting on you! These chuckleheads...they got nothin!


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## Valiente

smackdaddy said:


> Valiente - welcome! We're waiting with baited breath (well T's actually the only one with baited breath) for your BFS! What ya got, dude?


Nothing on camera, alas. Let's just say that the very moment I learned about the "funnelling" effect of wind in valleys exiting over estuaries that can turn 20 knots on the beam to 40 knots on the anti-foul, I had left the cockpit to the tillerpilot (set to "moderate" seas) without PFD or tether because a fender had rolled off the boat on the lee side, and I thought it looked "unseamanlike" to have it flailing around in seven knots of froth.

At that point, I learned that a lot of old salts won't notice the fender when the skipper is up to his chest in green water, with one foot in the air and the other on a 50 degree tilted deck, desperately hauling the mainsheet free enough so that it ran so rapidly that it eats a hole in his finger.

That, they notice. Oh, well. That was the end of Season One. I got better, I think.


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## CharlieCobra

It's amazing what certain topographical features can do to wind and waves, especially when combined with a foul current.


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## smackdaddy

Valiente - Ahh Mother Nature, the original roller furling! Charlie's photo of the green water rail bears your point out. Fenders in the water - who gives a damn? I mean he's hammering so hard they're actually floating above the deck! So, to sum up - 50 degrees, line-chewed-flesh, and chest-deep-greenwater - BFS, dude, BFS!

Now Valiente brings up a good point that I think needs to be addressed. The whole "Photo-Happened Edict" was presented by Giu, and I think is perfectly valid in most situations. However, it needs some clarification lest it dissuade the newbies from throwing down herein. So...

*Addendum 1: *IF one is an old salt and is throwing down a BFS as if it's pure, true and virginal - then the PHE applies, or is at least tremendously helpful in silencing those screaming MDB.

*Addendum 2: *HOWEVER, if one is a newbie, said newbie is not exactly going to have the wherewithal to be snapping mementos while simultaneously battling to survive either physical harm or immense embarrassment. So newbies get a pass - PHE is rescinded. They just need to actually live through their harrowing adventure and tell their story in the safe and nurturing environs of BFS. Heh-heh.

*Addendum 3: *ALSO, if anyone, newbie and salt alike, is throwing down outright lies to entertain the masses and make themselves look good, while simultaneously infuriating those that actually care about MDB, then they are most revered in BFS. Especially when everyone initially believes the tale that is so obviously MDB (e.g. - the much revered Pain's offering). AND - especially if the MDBer refuses to backdown even when confronted with incontrovertible evidence that he/she packed to the gills with said MDB. In such cases, the PHE likewise goes out the window unless it's an ingeniously photoshopped piece of evidence that backs up the blazing MDB (see Giu's many previous posts). NOW - a caveat - if the poster's MDB attempts are *either/both numerous and/or lame*, then everyone in the BFS constituency reserves the right to mercilessly beat the hell out of them and banish them to AFOC - newbie and salt alike.

Okay - I think that clears everything up. Carry on.


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## painkiller

I just want to point out that my BFS about making skippers pee uphill is totally true! I'd do it again, too.

My video post, not so much.


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## smackdaddy

Pain - in light of that post, I challenge you to re-write the lyrics of the "Gilligan's Island" theme to match that particular "BFS" video. And I expect Marianne to be a complete hussy this time around.


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## smackdaddy

John - screw the PHE, that was awesome BFS, dude! Thanks. For me - a few takeaways:

1. When a tough French sailing dude uses baking terms to describe a sail (e.g. - souffle), be ready for BFS.
2. In conditions like that, with your level of experience, I would have soiled my foulies. I love your attitude.
3. I subscribe to your practice of peeing in the cockpits of other people's yachts. At our marina, they're on the lookout for a pesky armadillo that has "hit" almost every boat in the marina. Heh-heh. Fools!
4. Beaufort - that dude just likes to up the ante doesn't he?

Seriously, though, is the Beaufort Scale then the "F" (Force X) scale we've talked about - and inclusive of all conditions (wind/sea state/etc.)? And, if so, I assume your point is that it only really applies to open water (back to the sheltered sailing blessing)?

Again - great post.


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## Valiente

Nice tale, John. Youth and inexperience made it a learning experience worth having, instead of a fearsome trial. Good point about the Lavac. My boat's sailing helm has little more than an 18-inch D x 26 inch W x 48 inch L footwell, but it has two three inch scuppers running aft and down for "watch relief".


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## Valiente

Smackie: Due to the presence of land and its funnelling effect along the longer axes of the Great Lakes, we freshwater sailors are quite used to the "closely packed wave trains" John mentions inshore, "falling" off the land. The waves here don't usually get above three or four metres (10-13 feet), or if they do, people don't deliberately sail in them. So in most cases it's the wave action, not the winds, that both make the crews sick and can damage the boats. What can be odd is when the winds are strong from either the SSE or the NNW in either Lakes Ontario or Erie, which is when there is very little fetch inshore, but loads of wind. The water looks like a nervous meringue pie with thousands of little peaks about half a metre high...but you can't SEE the wind on the water very well, and you can get the mast wet if you are overcanvassed for the same wind speeds John mentions.

I have talked with oceanic cruisers who've sailed in the Great Lakes and have admitted going out in just 25 knots with the characteristic small "square" waves have made them feel ill for the first time in years. By contrast, my first oceanic sailing was with Alex last year off Portugal and I didn't really notice what he judged was a three-metre ocean swell (with not a lot of waves on top of it at maybe 12 knots of wind) because it was so diffuse compared to what I usually experience in a much smaller inland sea.


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## JohnRPollard

smackdaddy said:


> ...Seriously, though, is the Beaufort Scale then the "F" (Force X) scale we've talked about - and inclusive of all conditions (wind/sea state/etc.)? And, if so, I assume your point is that it only really applies to open water (back to the sheltered sailing blessing)?
> 
> Again - great post.


Hey thanks. Yeah, the "Force X" is Beaufort-speak. In my story above, the French sailor was telling me that it was blowing somewhere between Force 7-9, I was just too ignorant to understand the message.

And yes, the scale applies to open water conditions. So it doesn't always match or sync-up too well with what we encounter in relatively protected waters. Usually, in protected waters, wave height lags well behind windspeed. They begin to match up better with the Beaufort Scale "Force" ratings as fetch increase -- as out on open waters.

Even in open waters, there is some fudge factor in the Beaufort Scale, so sailors will often give a range, like Force 7-9. In the initial stages of a heavy blow, it can take a while for the wave height to catch up to the windspeed. During that period, the waves tend to get tightly packed and very steep-faced. As the storm progresses, the waves usually get better organized, larger and spread out more.

Edit. P.S. What Valiente said!


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## JohnRPollard

Valiente said:


> Nice tale, John. Youth and inexperience made it a learning experience worth having, instead of a fearsome trial. Good point about the Lavac. My boat's sailing helm has little more than an 18-inch D x 26 inch W x 48 inch L footwell, but it has two three inch scuppers running aft and down for "watch relief".


Val,

I like those Lavac toilets very much -- but in our prior discussions I neglected to mention this one down-side. On a regular toilet you can pump the handle and keep the bowl dry while going... That's where the scuppers come in, I guess


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## sailhog

JRP,
That story belongs in the Sailnet Hall of Fame!


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## CharlieCobra

John, that kinda sail sounds familiar as do those waves. Clear air Gales are strange beasts. Nice story, good lesson.

Pain, I did that to Jody when he came to sail. While he was in the head, we jumped a freighter wake at 7 knots. I didn't smell anything later nor did he complain.


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## smackdaddy

Welcome Hog! I second that motion. I mean, his tale had foreign languages, exotic locales, rank bodily fluids, and everything! Kind of like Art Cinema with a serious edge. 

BTW - have you been able to keep your rail in the water? Do the 30s have as much freeboard as the 27s? I'm getting discouraged here, dude. Help a brother out!


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## painkiller

CharlieCobra said:


> Pain, I did that to Jody when he came to sail. While he was in the head, we jumped a freighter wake at 7 knots. I didn't smell anything later nor did he complain.


NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you can't abuse your friends, who CAN you abuse?

Though if he didn't complain, that sounds suspicious. He may have cleaned up with something from your clothes locker as revenge.


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## smackdaddy

So that's what happened to his head Charlie? Nice work, dude! I've also noticed you don't get a lot of complaining from unconscious crew.


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## Valiente

JohnRPollard said:


> Val,
> 
> I like those Lavac toilets very much -- but in our prior discussions I neglected to mention this one down-side. On a regular toilet you can pump the handle and keep the bowl dry while going... That's where the scuppers come in, I guess


You can pump a Lavac partly "dry" by leaving the lid up, but it will gradually fill again if the seawater feed is open. So my technique under way (unless it's "scupper weather" or the even worse "bucket conditions") is to pump it down a bit, have my whizz, and then pump it out lid up, _then_ close the lid and give it a rinse down.

Of course, if the bowl is normally full, you could get splashed just opening it, but I suppose you could partially turn off the feed line (if you fully closed it, you'd probably collapse the hose), give it a couple of pumps to reduce the level, and then open it to pump further.

Frankly, much as I love my Lavac, I haven't conducted extensive field tests.


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## sailhog

Valiente said:


> Frankly, much as I love my Lavac, I haven't conducted extensive field tests.


PM me if you need a real pro to test the system.


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## smackdaddy

Valiente, dude, definitely TMI. Surely there's another thread out there for you guys to explore this topic as deeply as you feel the need....hmmm, here, how about "Fun with Tinkle" started by PB a while back.

Now, please, back to sailing.


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## farmboy

smackdaddy, great thread. I'd rep you, but I don't know how. I posted this in the "learning to sail" section a while ago:

So Monday was a windy day on the Bay of Quinte. 20 knots, gusting to 25 maybe (no significant wave action). We went sailing with our sailing guru, the guy who guides us through our boating experience. Guru was at the helm, and we flew a 180 and full Main. Wow. He put on a clinic. I'm still trying to digest what I saw. So if you're relatively new to this sailing thing and you can find a great sailor to go out with, do it.

It was a great learning experience with an old salt at the helm, pushing the limits of my boat. We had the rail at the water the whole time, and everybody on board was loving it. The thread brought out some interesting points about teaching and sail choice. But I was kinda bummed by a few of the more negative responses. Nice to see there are others out there who like to push the limits.

Good luck on getting the rail in the water.


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## smackdaddy

Farmboy - welcome! And thanks for the post - that sounds like the perfect BFS in my book. Now it's your turn at the helm, dude!

And please - don't ever rep me! I'm still trying to get back to "0". It's just embarrassing to have any "rep power" whatsoever around here. From what I can see it just means you're old and cranky.

You do bring up the crux of it all...how can ANY sailor out there flame good, hard sailing - EVER? That's been mystifying me since day one on this site. And I've bloodied my knuckles ever since chatting about the philosophy with those nay-sayers. BTW - point them out to me and I'll go give them a pop.

Consider BFS your home away from dipping a rail. Good to have you. Now go throw down something big.


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## farmboy

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/learning-sail/46983-i-got-schooled-monday.html

Here's the link. I'll let you see for yourself. Most of the replies didn't bother me. I think a lot people missed the point. I think a lot of people made good points that I had never thought of. There was one that got under my skin, though. See what you think.


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## farmboy

And no harm meant with the rep comment. I was just impressed with how your original post kept the preaching out of the thread. I've got a couple of more BFS that you'll like, so stay tuned. Outa time tonight.


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## smackdaddy

Bring it on porkchop! And BTW - I read your thread and, believe it or not, they were pretty tame. There's just this huge fear of leading newbies down some path of "sailing wickedness". So they chant the "sail flat" mantra. Then, some of those guys just like to hang around the true newbie threads and pimp it - kind of like unemployed 20-year-olds still trying to hit on the high-schoolers. Either way, you just have to beat them into submission. Trust me - I know.


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## Valiente

farmboy said:


> smackdaddy, great thread. I'd rep you, but I don't know how. I posted this in the "learning to sail" section a while ago:
> 
> So Monday was a windy day on the Bay of Quinte. 20 knots, gusting to 25 maybe (no significant wave action). We went sailing with our sailing guru, the guy who guides us through our boating experience. Guru was at the helm, and we flew a 180 and full Main. Wow. He put on a clinic. I'm still trying to digest what I saw. So if you're relatively new to this sailing thing and you can find a great sailor to go out with, do it..


Saturday I was on Zwick Island at my father-in-law's 65th birthday. His mother, a still-kicking 92, lives in PEC just west of the bridge at Belleville, right on the water. The whole family learned to sail right in that stretch of the Bay. A Shark is just about the perfect boat for there, because it can manage the flukey, sometimes strong air, but it doesn't draw enough to scrape the bottom most places.

Here's the pic I took of a CG "cat cutter":










and here's a picture of us going under the bridge in October, 2005.










You think it's windy there...you should try leaving it out of Presqu'ile Bay in a 30 knot nor'easterly! Don't let the small waves fool you...we were doing seven knots under just a No. 3.


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## artbyjody

smackdaddy said:


> Bring it on porkchop! And BTW - I read your thread and, believe it or not, they were pretty tame. There's just this huge fear of leading newbies down some path of "sailing wickedness". So they chant the "sail flat" mantra. Then, some of those guys just like to hang around the true newbie threads and pimp it - kind of like unemployed 20-year-olds still trying to hit on the high-schoolers. Either way, you just have to beat them into submission. Trust me - I know.


NO offense, but I have a Catalina as well - and there is no such thing as a "BIG SAIL" on such.... what exactly are you sailing on or should I rephrase sailing while under the influence of...You are kinda like a 30 yr old still trying to hit on Mrs Robinson as you still think that is the only chance to experience manhood.... geez


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## smackdaddy

Now, now Jody - this isn't the place to be harshing boats, dude. Plenty of other threads for that. And anyway - _of course_ one can have _all kinds of BFS_ on a Catalina - even a C27, or any other boat for that matter! Plenty of great BFS stories already here to prove that. So you might want to refer back to page one for the definition of BFS. Yet, even in old salt terms, don't forget our C27 pal Childress. You gonna call him a chump?

And anyway, you have to admit, Mrs. Robinson was pretty hot back in the day. Definitely wouldn't mind giving that a tangle. Cu-cu-ca-chu. Say no more.


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## CharlieCobra

Yes she was....


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## smackdaddy

Great BFS and PHE Valiente! Actually the best evidence is that last photo. Sweet crew you have following in your footsteps dude! And I especially appreciate the peanut butter and juice box in the galley for said crew. You're living the life man! BTW - I bet that 92-year-old still packs a punch too, huh. I hope she likes you.


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## farmboy

Valiente,

Great pics. Makes me want to get home to my boat. I have yet to venture around to that side of the island, but I'm sure it'll happen. 30 knots from the NE? Must have been a sweet broad reach back to the big smoke. You're right on about Sharks. Its been a season and a half, and we love it. The wind can sure be fluky, especially in mid-summer. One of the best lessons my guru has taught me is how to ghost through the lulls and use the puffs. It is very satisfying to move the boat nicely along in very little wind.

On to my next BFS. Thanksgiving 2004 (mid October up here in Canada) and a bunch of us headed out on my buddy's C&C Viking 28. He and his brother wanted to fly the spin. It was steady wind, maybe 15 knots. Now the aforementioned brothers are both good sailors, but rarely sail together. I was on the foredeck looking after things up there, and up went the kite. I'm not really sure what happened in the cockpit, but there was a lot of confusion, and the wind was building quickly. It was one of those downwind moments where everything seems serene, and then you look at the shore and go "Holy crap, were are MOVING." So then I look ahead and see that we are not going to clear the point without a jibe, and I have no interest in that maneuver given the bickering I hear from the cockpit. For several hundred yards before the point, it is very shallow with a mud bottom (Speed is still building). So I turn back and say in a matter of fact way "Guys, we have 30 seconds to douse the spin and head up or we will be aground." All conversation stops and we get the job done. Rest of the downwind leg was on the main only, nice and relaxed. To come back to harbour we pointed up, put up the #3 jib, and dropped the main. Waves were 3 ft., which is huge for little Picton Bay, and the wind was howling out of the NW. We were close hauled with the rail in the water regularly (and I know Smack, the waves don't count.) Spray was flying back the boat, and everyone was loving it. For one of the girls on the boat, it was her first sail ever. She had as much fun as anyone else. We had no wind speed instruments, but I would have to think in the 30 range. Knot meter was running 8 to 9. Top notch sail.


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## smackdaddy

Here's a post from "DuckDuckGoose" from the "Seamanship/When you don't go out" thread - and it's pretty revealing I think. I've invited her over - hopefully she'll actually come back to Sailnet and see it. Enjoy:

"Just a question/observation for you guys from across the pond.

Coming from a completely different sailing mentality here in Ireland, some of the sailing that goes on in the US seems rather bizarre. I was in Washington DC a while ago and going down the Potomac on a river boat thing and passed a sailing club. There was a reasonable strong force 2 out, probably gusting a gentle force 3. Yet no matter how hard I looked, I could not see a single boat where anyone was hiking out, on a trapeze or pointing properly. Even as a ten year old out in a strong force 3 I had been taught to hike out and to point properly. Why are schools teaching poor standards? If it's too heavy to point, reef and have the traveller down to leeward so you can point. If you still can't point, you shouldn't be out as you're overpowered. 

My father has also taken note of this too. He's over and back to the USA very regularly and was looking into becoming a member of a sailing club in Boston and taking out a boat now and then. He was told that you can't use a headsail unless you've been assessed with a headsail on (completely ignoring numerous certificates - yachtasters!!!!!) but to be assessed with a headsail you had to have someone with you but can't take someone out with more than one sail unless you've been assessed! What's that about? He looked around and sure enough, everyone was sailing with only one sail! He was also told that he can't go out in anything more than 8-10kts. 8-10kts is NOTHING. Why such ignorance? 

I really can't understand this mentality! If you have a boat with more than one sail, you should be learning to sail it with ALL sails. Why on earth is heresy being preached? Or am I missing something?"

Amen - sister.


----------



## Valiente

farmboy said:


> Valiente,
> 
> Great pics. Makes me want to get home to my boat. I have yet to venture around to that side of the island, but I'm sure it'll happen. 30 knots from the NE? Must have been a sweet broad reach back to the big smoke.


It was. The next day, we left from Cobourg, which is about 65 NM of sailing to our dock. The wind was still pretty wild, maybe 24-28 knots, same direction, and we left late, about 8:30, and arrived at end of dusk, about 7 PM, for an AVERAGE speed of about 6.5 knots, which is something to sustain with only a beat-up Number 3 up (We hoisted the main in the last two hours at Pickering as the wind gradually dropped to 15 or so.

Aside from a close call with the now-retired Rochester ferry leaving the Eastern Gap, we had a great run that day. But the lake can go either way: five days previously, we had motoring almost all the way to Cobourg because of the complete absence of wind, including a mid-lake jerry can refuel! This was the morning we left (assuming we'd have to push it to get to Cobourg in one leg).









By the way, I know the Viking 28, and it's a sweet little racer if you don't need to stand up in it. It's the "little brother" to my Viking 33, and is a tough boat...a little like a "stretch Shark", I suppose.


----------



## Valiente

Smackie, I've bicycled the west coast of Ireland, and half gales and one of the most brutal lee shores are there the daily menu. If you don't learn how to claw off early, you would be a small jam stain with some shards of fibreglass stuck to it at the foot of these sorts of Cliffs of Insanity:


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## sailingdog

Valiente-

Was that a Princess Bride reference???


----------



## T34C

Smacky- I'm surprised to see you posting quotes from someone that preaches reefing, hiking, and sailing properly. This kinda flies in the face of most of our posts. WTF????


----------



## Valiente

sailingdog said:


> Valiente-
> 
> Was that a Princess Bride reference???


Yes. I tend to call any vertical rock cliff I see that's over 300 feet/100 metres tall "cliffs of insanity". The coastline of Portugal has some high spots, and is frequently vertical, but is only about half the height of that part of Ireland, and is "brighter" in the sense of being made of lighter-coloured rock.

Both will grind your boat to fragments quite effectively, however, and both are usually lee shores. Ireland has more long, fjord-like inlets.


----------



## smackdaddy

T - a fine job of spotting the trees, dude! Now let's have a look at the forest.

I thought threadnapping this particular post was appropriate for a couple of reasons:

First, as mentioned, it was the Seamanship thread dedicated to measuring the threshold of when a sailor refuses to go out. And that question, as I'm sure you'll agree, is often very closely related to BFS. So it caught my eye.

Second, this outsider's opinion of US sailing being "rather bizarre" certainly rang true with me. Yes, in the paragraph you glommed onto, she did in fact discuss pointing. Which, even I believe is actually a good thing when sailing. As is reefing and hiking in heavy conditions where you're getting close to being overpowered as she states. No argument at all. Ah - but here is the actual forest, T...

Thanks to the fine repertoire we've got going in BFS - and especially thanks to JohnP - we now actually know what that Beaufort dude was bandying about. Here's the definition:

Force 3: Gentle Breeze of 7-10 knots, large wavelets.

Now, DDG was apparently seeing a Potomac littered with sailors struggling to maintain a point of sail in 7-10 knots while being attacked by raging wavelets. And she asked why we were teaching to such poor standards in our sailing schools. Maybe you like to reef and hike in 7-10 because you have trouble maintaining POS - and maybe you advocate that as well (I don't know), she just thought it bizarre - as do I. So, I certainly don't see her "preaching" what you point out.

Then her father, who I will assume is the one who has been taking DDG sailing her whole life, runs into the bureaucratic catch-22, and has to stay on the hard rolling his eyes and laughing because of the clubs concern over 8-10 knots - which DDG correctly points out, is NOTHING. And she asks "Why such ignorance?"

Before we get to her last paragraph, I think what she has hit on is the very core of this whole strange debate of BFS - and the very reason so many newbies are mystified with the general attitude around us. For whatever reason, it seems that many sailors in the US (or at least here on Sailnet) are hyper-conservative about sailing to the point that the fun of it all is just dying away. It's become an academic exercise - an empirical right or wrong scenario. In fact, it's to the point where BFS is the "heresy" around here. And that should really make you stop and think. Which brings us to her last paragraph, and most salient I believe...

The actual heresy is the teaching of fear, over-complication and technicality instead of the *adventure of actually sailing a boat, with the sails God gave it, in a good stiff breeze*. We do waaaaaayyyyyyy too much of the former - and make the latter heresy. She was SPOT ON.

Her post was up for two days - and no one responded to it. Which is something I would expect around here. Unfortunately, now that I pointed it out she's taking a shot or two. Are you going to pile on T? Or are you going to go for a BFS?


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## smackdaddy

Shut up! And I mean it! Anybody want a peanut?


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## Stillraining

smackdaddy said:


> Shut up! And I mean it! Anybody want a peanut?


Ya know Smak-a-doodal...You sound like the racing section over at SA...Like sailing is all out or nothing or your a dweeb and/or if it aint all out your not a sailor..That just plain wrong thinking...Like saying if you dont push the limits of your airplane your not a pilot..I like the gist of your thread... but dont care for the bashing of how some people just want a mellow sail around the bay and nothing more...Nothing wrong with that...My boat would sail like crap with its rail buried cuss Id be at 50+ degrees..where my little o'l Mac would bury her rail at 20 and the J24 at 30.

Guess Im not a sailor now with my new chosen boat huh?

I know... I'll glue on a new rail at 18" above water line ...every time it gets buried that will be a BFS...


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## smackdaddy

Still - BFS is about fun and exciting sailing. Sailing that I (and virtually everyone) like to hear/talk about for just those reasons. It's the kind of sailing I aspire to - but, clearly, not the only way it's done. And that's fine. Personally, I'm just not as interested in mellow sailing - even as a newbie. It's just not as fun or interesting to me - either in practice or in narrative form. Although conditions often times dictate it.

What I do have a problem with is the smackdowns around here on people in various threads that do like big sailing and want to talk about it. We're continually told to go to SA. Why? Is Sailnet ONLY about mellow sailing?

There does seem to be a "my-way-or-the-SA" mentality around here - but more often than not it ain't us, dude. 

Your question about whether you're a sailor or not is leftovers from FightClub. That's not the point here in BFS - and is the reason I started over. That's off the table. If you sail - you're a sailor. If you only like to sail mellow, you're a mellow sailor. Fine. No slams on that. But that too is not the point here in BFS.

Just don't get so offended if someone challenges that way of sailing. It's not the only way. That's just wrong thinking - right?


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## smackdaddy

Farmboy - Great BFS. I've not yet flown a spinnaker. I'm rigged for it but don't own one yet. I'll get there. It looks both fun and scary. Which is all the justification I need!

I'm still working on practicing the wing-on-wing. Any advice from you guys on what I can do with this technique to prep for sailing with a chute? Or is it a whole different ballgame?

Valiente - dude, awesome photos! Sounds like you had a nice sail. And the Ireland photo - wow! Did you take it? And have you sailed there? Jeez, I bet picnics and raft-ups are a biatch!


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## Stillraining

> There does seem to be a "my-way-or-the-SA" mentality around here - but more often than not it ain't us, dude.


hmmm.. dont spend much time in fight club..so will take your word on that..

I personally do not see the "my-way-or-the-SA" mentality around here" as you put it..In non Fight club threads...Not till you brought it up.

I think most of us enjoy brisk sailing and some even to a greater degree as could be called extreme sailing... you self proclaim to enjoy...I just see you starting to get testy with some of your comments that all..

I enjoy the stories as much as any and if I had a memory worth 2 cents could share a few too..I just dont remember things in the details like most seem to be able to do... all my sailing was 30+ years ago..but I have not forgot how to sail or got nervous about nothing regarding sailing...Shoot I just took a 40 footer out with 4 first timers and it was only the third time I had ever been on the boat... or any blow boat over 24 feet for that matter...

Thats the only reason I posted my video to your BFS thread because it definitely was a BFS for me...

Carry on...


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## GeorgeB

Breeze in the twenties, lee shore and a spinnaker wrap while single handing - not a good combination.


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## smackdaddy

Thanks Still. The testiness is just a bite-when-bitten kind of thing. As for the extreme sailing, I just like big. It's fun. And as I've said I'm still far, far from anything anyone would consider extreme. It's ALL BFS for me.

I'm glad you have that beauty in the water. And keep those BFS stories coming - before you forget them again!


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## JohnRPollard

GeorgeB said:


> Breeze in the twenties, lee shore and a spinnaker wrap while single handing - not a good combination.


OUCH!!

That hurt.


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## smackdaddy

Oh man, George. That's a heartbreaker. Please tell me that's not yours. I've seen a couple of rescue videos that look like the same area. What a nightmare that place must be.


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## cardiacpaul

I understand smak-boy is lookin for a sail...

sumpin like this?









Does Travis even get winds over 10kts?

I'm reminded of this guy every time I ignore smak-e
YouTube - Eddie Griffin ferrari Enzo Crash
Eddie did ONE LAP, then... SMACK!
lolololol


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## T34C

Smacky- I think that original poster was a bit mis-guided in his observations. He was questioning what US sailing "schools" were teaching and then making reference to the practices of a sailing "club". I can understand a club not wanting just any new member showing up, hoisting full sail and going out and trashing their boat. (I don't agree with the philosophy, but I understand their logic.) Unfortunatly, most businesses here in the US have to protect against the least common denominator of our society. Sad but true. 

Now factor in a bunch of boats belonging to above mentioned club going out sailing without a headsail and you are naturally going to have a bunch of boats that can't point. The two things are related, but probably not in the way the poster was seeing it.

I have to say that I have no "issues" with this thread and what you are looking for with posts here. I like the idea and have not said boo about your concept of BFSs. The only time I had any problem was over in the Fight Club Thread and as far as I'm concerned it stayed there. I was just surrised by the story you posted.

As for my sailing BFS v. conservative sailing I tend to be more conservative MOST of the time, but purely because I'm often out sailing with my family. My kids are not old enough yet to deal with more extreame days on the water. BTW- my boat regularly has a rail in the water. She heels early due to the design and gains WL when heeled and picks up speed. I'm not a subscriber to the flat is fast mantra as a rule. All boats are different.


----------



## T34C

cardiacpaul said:


> I understand smak-boy is lookin for a sail...
> 
> sumpin like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Travis even get winds over 10kts?
> 
> I'm reminded of this guy every time I ignore smak-e
> YouTube - Eddie Griffin ferrari Enzo Crash
> Eddie did ONE LAP, then... SMACK!
> lolololol


I think sumpin like that, minus the building.


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## smackdaddy

T - Cool. Then we're definitely sailing the same waters. Thanks.

Now - c'mon - tell us about a big freakin' sail you've had. If I can live with the "ridicule" by people like CP (who just keeps following me around in order to "ignore" me) by throwing down a stuck-in-the-slip BFS, you gotta have something better!


----------



## smackdaddy

CP - dude, please ignore me. I'm beggin' you. Or at least try to hold your apartment building to a better point of sail. That's just embarrassing. What would the Irish think?


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## T34C

smacky- Have you not noticed what happens around here when someone asks to "ignore" something??????


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## smackdaddy

Oh yeah, I've seen it. And like I keep saying, I'd just rather talk about sailing with people like the ones who've been posting in here. They're good people - and they're fun. The ignore crowd - not so much. So if a person wants to talk about sailing - let's do it. If not, there are hundreds of other threads here for them.

Or if someone wants to go a couple of rounds, there's always FC. 

Now back to the wing-on-wing to spinnaker transition. What say you sailors?


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## Giulietta

Smack...

What about some BFW???? Want action??

Have a look here....just to show you, what a place called Gulf of Biscay (some 350 miles north of me), can do....

Not exactly your average North American wood and plastic house construction...is it?






PS..between you and me, altough exciting, and cool, (I agree), sailing with the wet rail, (unless the boat was designed for it, but that's another story) is actually a bad thing...it slows the boat down, and shows the guy sailing is actually not that competent...but that's just me..


----------



## JohnRPollard

smackdaddy said:


> Im still working on practicing the wing-on-wing. Any advice from you guys on what I can do with this technique to prep for sailing with a chute? Or is it a whole different ballgame?


Smackdaddy,

Wing-on-wing is okay. Lots of sailors use this approach to sail dead-down wind or thereabouts, especially long-distance ocean sailors running with steady trade winds. It's a nice, sedate way to run if there's not a huge breeze blowing and it's fairly steady. It might help you learn a bit about handling the whisker/spin pole too.

But a lot of folks prefer to deep reach and jibe down-wind, keeping both sails on the same side at all times. Especially in light air if you don't have a spinnaker. This lets you generate a little bit of apparent wind to keep the boat sailing. Yes, it's more work than just setting up wing on wing and driving straight, but on those light air days it's usually a welcome distraction.

Even many boats with spinnakers, especially those that are fractionally rigged or that use asymmetric (cruising) chutes, will often reach rather than run downwind. I would suggest that you ask around and find out what the best approach is for a C27.


----------



## T34C

smackass- I agree with JRP- try using a spin/whisker pole with the genny while going DDW. It will provide good practice and will help when you do try the spin.


----------



## smackdaddy

John - thanks. That makes sense. I'll ask around a bit on the C27. In the mean time I'll work on that deep reach/jibe instead of the WoW. Honestly, I just thought it looked cool! BTW - another thing that struck me as funny about DDG's story is that when starting out we took some lessons from a very nice, but very conservative sailor here and he told us to always avoid a jibe (not an unintentional jibe - just a jibe). We were doing 270 degree tacks downwind in light breeze. I was getting dizzy. Talk about hyper-conservative. Ouch. 

Giu - two words...HOLY CRAP! Immediately followed by - where are all the sailboats? Pansies! Perfect rail wetting conditions, baby! Seriously, on the wet rail thing - I understand that. What always cracked me up about that was all the blowback people had when it was about "getting" a rail wet not "keeping" a rail wet. They immediately took it to the extreme and went crazy which was silly. I just appreciate guys like you that actually show how it's done - not just talk about it all day long. Thanks dude. BTW - next time you have the Blue Giant up, film it. It would be great to see some good spinnaker technique.


----------



## smackdaddy

Thanks T-tard.


----------



## cardiacpaul

who needs a spin anyways?


----------



## CharlieCobra

Alex, that looks like our coast when the weather is up too. Smack, wing and wing is slower than reaching. The key to jybing in higher winds (at least for me) is to sheet in tight before the jybe, it lessens the force and travel of the boom. Reaching deep with a poled out Genny is a good way to practice for that first spin run. I would suggest getting an Asymm, I love it. I don't have a standard spinnaker but have done bow on a C-38 that flew one while racing.

T-tard? Shyte like that is what raises folks dander, keep that in FC.


----------



## GeorgeB

Giu,
We build them out of stone here in California too.


----------



## T34C

Around here we build them out of stone too, then we have to wrap them in steel so they will shed ice.

Seeing The Light - Cana Island Lighthouse - Image 3


----------



## Giulietta




----------



## chucklesR

smackdaddy said:


> Still - BFS is about fun and exciting sailing.


Smack your hiny - what do you call relaxing sailing with your significant other wearing a bikini/sarong/smile if not fun and exciting?
I get out there and bury MY rail and I'm sinking my catamaran! What are you, some kind of mono-hull, mono-track mind dweeb??


----------



## Valiente

JohnRPollard said:


> OUCH!!
> 
> That hurt.


It looks like a dead songbird at the base of an office block with reflective windows, somehow.


----------



## smackdaddy

chucklesR said:


> Smack your hiny - what do you call relaxing sailing with your significant other wearing a bikini/sarong/smile if not fun and exciting?
> I get out there and bury MY rail and I'm sinking my catamaran! What are you, some kind of mono-hull, mono-track mind dweeb??


Chickles, I honestly don't know what to call that. I sail with my significant other a lot - I just don't wear a bikini or sarong like you do as implied by your statement. But, hey, that's cool if you find it enjoyable. Anyway - as discussed, BFS isn't about the wet rail. That is way yesterday, dude. It's about the sail. Now keep your threads straight or I'll get Charlie's ire up again with some choice name calling.


----------



## Giulietta

smackdaddy said:


> BTW - next time you have the Blue Giant up, film it. It would be great to see some good spinnaker technique.



http://i212.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid212.photobucket.com/albums/cc65/giuliettacsc2/MOV02335.flv​


----------



## smackdaddy

Giu - thanks for the vid. Not a lot of screen time for the giant - but it does look pretty. I think my favorite part was at the very end when Fred said in Portugese: "Dad, tell this fat guy with the camera in front of me to sit the hell down! Can't he see I'm trying to sail here?" Like it.

Oh yeah, and per your videos, I'm having an extra tiller installed in my C27. I'll be throwing down some speed then brother!


----------



## Giulietta

Sorry gave you the wrong one

Here you go. more time here


----------



## farmboy

SmackD, I'm not the best for giving spin advice. It's been a long time. I will say that between sailing wing on wing, or having a spin up, I'll take the spin every time. When its all going right its a great feeling. Just make sure you know what you're doing, because a spin attempt gone wrong can be a very bad day. I always have a knife on me, but it would seem doubly important with a spin up.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Yep, standing on the mast while the spreaders are in the soup ain't fun.


----------



## smackdaddy

Giu - very cool. So - again, forgive the ignorance, but I noticed you're manning the spin sheet. Is this something one should always do when using the chute to guard against sudden gusts, etc.? Or do you cleat it?

Finally, just so you know, my father is an Army Colonel, Senator AND Millionaire and I don't appreciate the tone or implication of that grating rock and roll song. I'm telling Cam.


----------



## JohnRPollard

smackdaddy said:


> Giu - very cool. So - again, forgive the ignorance, but I noticed you're manning the spin sheet. Is this something one should always do when using the chute to guard against sudden gusts, etc.? Or do you cleat it?


SMackdaddy,

Most chutes will require a fair bit of attention to keep them flying/trimmed. A standard symmetric chute (i.e. poled out) requires attention to the sheet as well as the afterguy to keep the pole square to the wind.

That's an asymmetric (cruising) chute that Fred is flying. So there's only a sheet, no pole guys (although there is a tack line). Less crew-intensive, but you'd want to be careful about cleating off any spin-sheet if conditions were gusty.

Spinnakers can be beastly and wreak havoc under certain conditions. Start off in light air to begin with. That's when you get the most advantage from them anyway.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Cleating off the sheet is how ya end up standing on the mast.


----------



## Giulietta

smackdaddy said:


> but I noticed you're manning the spin sheet. Is this something one should always do when using the chute to guard against sudden gusts, etc.? Or do you cleat it?


Yes and no...

Depends..that day was manned..we had inexpereinced crew on board, and the wind was starting to pick up..besides I was trimming for Fred, after all he is only 11..the wind was around 15 (this is in REAL knots, not pubic hairs per second or whatever) when we started and gusting to 25 (if I am not mistaken- Chuckles was there ask him) by the time we were done sailing almost 50 miles with it..the seas had some big butt waves towards the end...

When sailing fast or racing you stand opposite, with your back to the wind, so you can have a clear view of the spi... and adjust accordingly..

I personally, unless it's quite slow and calm don't cleat the spi, just in case..but have done it often...Leadhead does...but normally I steer, that's why he cleats..he is also very lazy..


----------



## smackdaddy

Beastly, dangerous, havoc, knife...! Man - this is starting to sound really FUN! Time to go sail shopping baby!

PS - Don't worry, I'll be very safety-conscious...as long as I'm conscious.


----------



## smackdaddy

Giu - I sail like a 4 year old - so I understand. Fred is waaaayyyyy ahead of me. And I'll have to go back and look - or ask JohnP - but I don't recall Beaufort ever bringing the "nether-regions" into the equation.


----------



## farmboy

So here's my final BFS story. I'll have to go and make some new ones, I guess. There's a couple of elements to this story. 75% of the sail was great. However, I ended up hurt semi-seriously. Definitely learned some lessons. This is a cautionary tale. Maybe someone will learn from my mistakes and save themselves some grief.

So to set this up, you need to know a bit about the geography of the area. At the time, I lived on an Isthmus that juts southward from the north shore of Lake Ontario near its eastern end. The isthmus is fairly large, with over 120 miles of shoreline. About halfway down the western edge, there is a small lake called West Lake. West Lake is separated from Lake Ontario by a narrow line of sand dunes that runs north south. These dunes are 50-60 feet high and a few hundred yards wide. They are the only windbreak for the length of Lake Ontario when the wind is westerly.

So it was a windy day (westerly), and my buddy and I headed out on his hobie cat 16. We are both big guys, so there was a total of 500lbs on the trapeze. We could sail that boat in a lot of wind. We launched from the eastern shore of the lake and made our way upwind towards the dunes, flying a hull the whole time and having a blast. Now the dunes were blocking the western horizon, so we didn't have a long view of the weather that was coming in. We saw these crazy dark clouds coming over the dunes, and we know we had get off the lake. So my buddy headed down on a deep reach, just off of DDW enough to keep the jib full. It was wild. I have no idea how fast we were going. The waves were 2 ft., which i huge for this tiny little lake with no fetch. We got hit with a gust from behind. This pitched the boat forward and drove the hulls into the back of a wave. We pitch poled. I felt like I got shot out of a catapult. As I flew off the boat, I felt the outside of my shin hit something. When I was in the water, I reached down to my leg and my finger slid right in. The cut was 2.5 inches long and 3/4 of an inch wide. So myself, my buddy, and the boat were all blown on shore. Another sailor who was there took care of the boat while my buddy drove me to the hospital. The doctor cleaned the cut up and told me I was lucky. I was cut all the way to the muscle, but there were only a few minor muscle fibers cut and no major nerves damaged. He flushed the wound out and stitched me up. Said all would be fine

So 3 days later I'm back to the hospital. My whole calf was swollen up as large as my thigh. The first nurse that saw me was a little puzzled, because the cut looked fine. 3 hours later when the doctor saw me, I had I 1 inch radius red ring around the cut and red lines heading up my leg. I was in trouble. They started me on IV antibiotics immediately. I was back to the hospital every 12 hours for the next 10 days. They had to try 3 different antibiotic combos before they found something that worked. No doctor told me this, but I figure if the last drugs didn't work, they would have taken my leg. So I got better, and all is well now. But it was a near miss. My buddy was limping for a couple of months, also. We figure he bounced off the mast when he was flying through the air.

Lessons learned:

In hindsight, maybe we shouldn't have been out that day, but I'm not so sure. We definitely used incorrect tactics. Because we pointed DDW and hobie 16s don't have very buoyant hulls, the gust drove the hulls under water. we should have been sailing from a broad to beam reach. This way the gusts would have applied pressure to the leeward sides of the hulls instead of pitching us forward. It would have taken nerve, which I will admit we lost. We would have had to chicken jibe several times to get back to shore.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Pitchpoling SUCKS!


----------



## GeorgeB

Pt. Bonita Light

Sadly, that photo is of the demise of Fast Forward, an Aerodyne 38 that I used to crew on. She was on the return leg of the 2005 Single Handed Farallones when her spinnaker did a double wrap on her headstay. Nothing the owner could do to deflate the bubble in the middle and she drifted on her side about 7 NM across the "Potato Patch" to where she came to rest on the Marin Headlands near the Pt. Bonita Light. The sea state was such that the USCG could not provide any assistance. The only salvage tug capable of pulling her off the rocks was off the coast of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com







Oregon</ST1</st1:State> at the time. They eventually got a sky crane helicopter to lift her off the rocks but by that time she was a total write-off and the insurance payout barely covered the cost of salvage. So sad. For me this is a cautionary tale as the sport we all share and love is potentially dangerous and deadly. So all this smack talk and bravado might be fine for bar-rooms and BB's, but as sailors and yachtsmen we must exercise a bit of caution and judgment as we pursue our passion. 
<O
<O







</O>
Fast Forward in better days

But enough of that maudlin stuff. The "keeping the knife handy" comment reminds me of another Fast Forward story. We were doing the 2004 Northern Cross which is the GGYC start line on the City front, then out the gate to a buoy off Pt. Reyes, then down to the SF "light bucket" and back to GGYC. We left the <ST1Golden Gate</ST1 in about 15kts of breeze which steadily built to the low thirties by the time we got to Pt. Reyes. On the outbound leg, the RC shortened race to just the windward mark and back.
<O
We had a fantastic windward leg and soon found ourselves grouped with the leaders and in a tacking duel with Emily Carr, a heavily modified SC50. The sea state built into some pretty nasty waves and both us and Emily were exposing our fore foots right up to the keel as we leapt off the backsides of the waves. We shook out both reefs as we rounded the mark in third and then launched the 1.5oz shy kite (Areodynes run asymmetricals on a bow sprit). We always had a problem with that kite's cut and she was too wild to handle that day. We rounded up several times in quick succession (rail under is way slow) so we got the order to take that one down and send up the 1.5 runner. Even though much larger, the boat always liked the runner and we took off like a shot. We were surfing everything in sight. We'd catch a swell and the knot meter would start cranking up 11kts, 12kts, 15kts, 18kts&#8230; then 10, 5, and zero kts! Boat is still accelerating but with the bow so far out of the water, the knot meter stopped working. GPS would record our peak times. On one wave GPS recorded an incredible 23kts for a 30 second period. Spinnaker trim was a nightmare. We would switch out grinders every ten minutes, trimmers a bit longer. The waves were traveling in two distinct trains about 45 degrees apart. Picking your way through them at these speeds was like skiing through moguls. With the boat loaded up the way she was, we were on the knife's edge. The skipper momentarily started to go down the wrong wave, tried to correct and stalled the rudder. Before we could blow vang or sheet, we augured in. <O
<O
The deceleration from broaching at 15kts is akin to being in a car crash. We wound up pinned on our side and my job as pit was to blow the top twenty feet of Spin halyard to initiate the righting moment, then grind the chute back up. Yeah, right. She would only come up so far and then roll back down. Let out more halyard and eventually she came back up but over the submerged kite. Grinding up on the halyard was impossible and the call was made to cut ourselves free. Question for everybody: Where do you put your rigging knife? Like most people, our knives were safely in our pants pockets under layers of foul weather gear, life vests and tethers. More time wasted. Meanwhile, the waves that we were once riding are now breaking on the boat. Eventually, knives are produced and we begin cutting and pulling. Soon, most of the kite is cut away and we are sailing again. Then we noticed that during the time on our side, our Kevlar main developed a tear across a center panel. Eventually the tear went from luff to leach and the only thing holding the sail together was the spectra leach cord. We limped back to the finish line under jib and main. On the way home we stopped behind <ST1Treasure Island</ST1 to cut and free the last shards of sail from our rudder. At the dock, we discovered latter that the crash also broke the bowsprit box from its bulkhead mounting. Not a fun day, but one Big Freaking Sail.


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## JohnRPollard

GeorgeB said:


> Not a fun day, but one Big Freaking Sail.[/FONT]


Holy cow, I'll grant you that.

Reminds me of our old Melges 24 sailing days. When you had to have a dedicated vang trimmer to prevent the broach.

I liked the part where the knotmeter was out of the water and went back to zero. Yeehaw!


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## smackdaddy

Gentlemen, thank you for your sobering tales. They will be considered with much genuflection and angst...okay...

NOW C'MON WORLD! How in the hell can these BFS stories NOT MAKE YOU WANT TO SAIL??? These are FREAKING AWESOME!!!

Not that anyone is advocating, through use of artifice such as barroom "smack talk and bravado"...SAILING LIKE A FREAKING BANSHEE!

BTW, George, I notice you list a Catalina 34 in your profile. I have to tell you, after this story, I cried and fell in love with my little C27 all over again. You guys give hope to newbies the world over.


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## farmboy

CharlieCobra said:


> Pitchpoling SUCKS!


Yes Charlie, it certainly does. Not so bad on on the Hobie when we were headed upwind. When your out on the trap, you fly clear of everything. It's the downwind one's that SUCK!


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## sailingdog

George-

I keep a rigging knife in my foul weather jacket pocket...one in my back pocket usually too.


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## T34C

Knife- Always in your outter most layer of clothes.

Not to discount Georges story because it sounds like one hell of a ride, but it does kinda prove the fact that sailing with more caution would have gotten them home faster (and safer) than letting it all hang out. Great story none the less.


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## smackdaddy

George - while removing the myriad tongue sticks from your tale (which I thought just added extra color) - you accidentally removed a good chunk of the story including the "maudlin" segue which was critical IMO. Anyway, still awesome.

As for me, I just ordered a fine cutlass for my upcoming spin trip. I figure if a knife will do - a sword's even better - and easier to get to - and makes you look just a bit more insane.

T - dude, it was a race. Lighten up. Can you get any more wet-blanketier? You may be better off starting an SMS thread (safe mellow sails) if this one causes you ill health. I mean, you're definitely always welcome, but ya gotta go with it baby! I'm just concerned about you. Find something in the story to build on and give some good advice (like the knife thing) then stop typing and take some deep breaths.


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## T34C

smacky- The fact that it was a race exactly makes my point. In a race the point is to get from A to B as fast as possible, not get from A to B while heeling the most. A perfect example of a sailor trying to have a big day and trying so hard that it cost them. (A perfectly good spin at the least.) Great tale and a wild ride that would have been a blast. A blast that would have required a few changes of shorts, but a blast.


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## smackdaddy

T34C said:


> *Great tale and a wild ride that would have been a blast. A blast that would have required a few changes of shorts, but a blast.*


There - you got it!

Now I've been hounding you for weeks and, you might have noticed, am somewhat persistent...throw one down T! I know you have some good stuff. That T34 is too cool of a boat to not have some BFS under her keel!


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## Stillraining

On my safty gear/PFD list is to have attached to all our harnesses a strobe, Whistle and one of these..

From Gerber for 38.00 ...can even be hung upside down for a quick jerk release. (that means even I can do it )

This one has a blunt tip for added safty during high stress rescue type moments but can be had with pointed tip as well...3" blade is serrated on one side straight edge on other. SS and polymer construction.

Sold at any good river rafting store


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## smackdaddy

Still - nice knife. But I have to step in here and tell you to use it to cut yourself some slack, dude. You're not a quick jerk, my friend.


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## Jeff_H

Even those of us who have sailed for decades have a point at which the hair on the back of our necks stand up and we begin to think that we may have overdone things a bit. The difference between more experienced sailors and newbies is that we have a few more tricks in our repetoir and we also have a better sense of how close we can get to the edge before we fall off, which may also mean that we get closer to the edge and so may actually get slammed more frequently than a sensible newcomer. 

No matter how long we have sailed there is always a learning period everytime we get on a boat that is new to us. I typically try to ramp up slowly, sailing the boat in increasingly heavy conditions, pushing the boat into every higher heel angles to learn at what point the rudder stalls and what the sail plan looks like in high winds upwind vs reaching vs down. I look at how hard it is to reef or furl in a strong breeze and get s sense of how long it takes since there are times when shelter is near that pushing the boat to the last possible moment may mean the difference between no serious drama and getting your head handed to you. It is the step by step experimentation that teaches you how the boat behaves so that there isn't a problem going out on those days when the 'sensible and cautious' say things like "Your a better man than I to go out there on a day like today". 

Jeff


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## smackdaddy

Gulp. Jeff? Aren't you like....THE Jeff?

Man, I kind of feel like Moses looking at the tablets here. Thanks for the post - the great advice - and the rolling black clouds and thunder.

Seriously - thanks.

BTW - If Jeff says it..."So let it be written. So let it be done." (Wait, does this make me Yul Brynner? I'm getting all flustered here.)


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## sck5

On knives - I have a dive knife which is pretty good. Has serrated and straight edges. Also has heavy duty scissors. And is stainless as hell. Designed to cut through whatever crap grabbed you on the bottom before you run out of air. Made to be easy to handle underwater so is easier than most to deal with if you are in a bad situation.


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## chucklesR

smackdaddy said:


> Giu - thanks for the vid. Not a lot of screen time for the giant - but it does look pretty. I think my favorite part was at the very end when Fred said in Portugese: "Dad, tell this fat guy with the camera in front of me to sit the hell down! Can't he see I'm trying to sail here?" Like it.
> 
> Oh yeah, and per your videos, I'm having an extra tiller installed in my C27. I'll be throwing down some speed then brother!


BTW smacky, that was me behind the other wheel, Becky in orange to the front and my admiral MMR sitting next to me. Alex was of course minding the sheet and Lead head was behind the camera.


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## Valiente

I keep an old Solingen knife my dad used in Antarctic whaling in the late '40s on my belt, along with a Maglight, and if I am wearing foulies, I carry a cheap, serrated WasteMarine rigging knife looped through the D-ring and hung on a fabric tape from my PFD. It cost $9 at the boat show, and I bought ten. I consider them "single use/expendable/don't care if it goes for a swim". When I go offshore, I will likely get a Gerber or a Spyderco rigger's knife, but for Lake Ontario, this suffices.

I also have a hand axe and a modified bread knife by the companionway. A buddy has a Crocodile Dundee-sized dive knife sheathed under a step, but that's less "rigging knife" than "intruder welcome".

I've used my rigging knife exactly once, when my old light No. 1 snagged its leech line on a spreader when I turned around Toronto Island coming back from Oshawa and the wind jumped from 12 to 25 knots...too much for that old sail. My then-seven-months pregnant wife went as head to wind as she could with the full main up while I doused it with extreme prejudice and lashed the remains to the deck. I well remember getting welts from the flailing sheets and finding a bit of sail stuck in the spreader tip when I hauled the mast later that year.

And that's why I tape off my spreader tips now. Most of my BFS stories are from the first three years of sailing. Things have calmed down considerably as I've ascended the learning curve.


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## CalebD

Slap ditty,
I've been trying my best to refrain from posting here as this just seems like a slightly less testosterone laden premise for a thread like your FC posting(s). Against my better judgment I am posting now.
I don't have anything better for you than Farmboy or GeorgeB in terms of bad or devastating consequences but I can speak to the issue of hubris which will follow my small treatise on BFS (namely spinnakers).
Farmboy got a nasty cut on his leg and GeorgeB describes loosing a pretty amazing boat while using the spinnaker that double wrapped the fore stay. Spinnakers are fun as they give you a lot more power (speed) then usual but require constant trimming; more trimming than a sail plan of just main and genoa which are much more flexible in terms of point of sail options (you can't head up wind with a spinnaker up - down wind is your friend in this situation). 
You need to get a spinnaker sail from any boat in the same mast height range as your boat and a pole and some extra lines and try it. There are some extra lines you should rig on your spinnaker sheet and guy lines called 'twings' which are basically blocks that allow you to pull in the long sheet and guy which run to the stern blocks on your boat (you have those don't you?). I believe you already have the topping lift for the pole (which pulls up) and can easily rig up the line that pulls the pole down. I know you are gonna love it! It's got SnapPappy written all over it (BFS and FC all in one).

To get back to hubris, which is derived from the Greek (meaning: overwhelming pride, self-confidence, superciliousness, or arrogance, often resulting in fatal retribution), I helped a buddy of mine move his newly acquired MacGregor 26S from Babylon, NY up to Yonkers, NY (about 85 km with most of the trip in the Atlantic and the rest up the Hudson River). 
Our planned day of departure was foggy so we spent the night at a friends house with a canal on the Great South Bay with the boat in the water by the back yard. Our host was a local and knew Fire Island Inlet and advised my friend to follow the buoys out into the ocean, that it sometimes got a bit rough on the ocean by the inlet in an ebbing tide and strong winds in the opposite direction. Tide is something we have pretty regularly here unlike in the Gulf o' Mexico which is more effected by predominant winds etc. My friend also has a masters license and works for the Military Sea Lift Command (MSC) so I had a lot of confidence in my captain.
I looked in the tide & pilot book to see when the slack tide would be happening at the inlet but as it worked out we ended up getting to the inlet a couple of hours late so the tide was ebbing out of the Great South Bay into the ocean by then. We had light winds (5 kts or less) but were still registering 8 kts over ground on my GPS as we headed past the CG station. I noticed a little bay to our west where there were a hundred or so motor boats anchored and then I looked to the south where the outgoing tide was kicking up the 4 ft. ocean swell into 10'+ breaking waves which was the way we had to go. We had only an 8 HP engine pushing us as we got into the mini race caused by the outgoing current and it complained each time the boat got to the top of the wave and began going down the other side. My friend had brought his teenage son along so I was somewhat relieved that he actually intended on living through this. My friend had me increase the throttle on the outboard as he was using it to steer us and did not want to turn away from the waves which were big enough to roll us if we got broadside to. Once outside the region of dangerous waves we ended up motoring most of the 50 km to NYC and were treated to a flying air show of the Blue Devils off of Jones Beach. 
By the time we neared the Rockaways the wind picked up and we doused the engine and I saw some spurts of 7 kts in the McGregor. The tiller had a lot of weather helm and the boat is way under built compared to my own 1969 Tartan 27' but it is faster if lighter built.
Lesson: Do not think that just because you have gone through Hell Gate that the other coastal inlets on the east coast will be the same.
We spent the night near the Statue of Liberty in NY Harbor at a marina (LLM) and refilled the gas cans. Since my boat has an inboard engine and this boat was new to my friend we forgot to put 2 stroke oil in the tank.
We left the marina the next morning (without paying) and motored out into the Hudson until the motor died and put up both sails. We tacked upriver on an incoming tide all the way past Manhattan and up to Yonkers until the tidal river current started flowing the other way and the wind died beneath the cliffs of the Palisades of NJ. We still had not figured out the problem with the fuel or rather the missing oil from the fuel so we dragged the boat along a pier (JFK Memorial Park, for those of you who know it) to the launching ramp much to the surprise of the dumbfounded onlookers and a few fishermen who reluctantly reeled in their lines to let us pass. 

The boat was delivered safe and sound but there were more lessons to be learned from all of this. I was exhausted and tired after our two day ordeal with nothing more than a 15 kt gust so by no means was this a BFS episode. It was just an exercise in learning more about what it takes to cope with the conditions, the boat and its crew and it's captain.

When my friend decided to pull his boat out for the season I was there with him and we were out in pretty strong winds for the MacGregor, even with it's smallish jib. By now we knew that the current in the river was a major factor to take into account but the northerly winds were funneled up by the Palisades. A few near knockdowns in gusts and that puny rigging got me a little scared but again my MSC friend held her steady as we sailed the boat right up onto her trailer. Soon after emptying the water ballast the fore stay parted as the rigging had not been sound and the action of the furler had unscrewed the stay. The mast came down with the boat on the trailer. Fortunately no one was hurt and only a few pieces of rigging will need to be replaced. 
Lessons learned: not all skippers or boats are created equal. Pushing it to the limit is great in many ways but there is usually a price tag associated with such behavior. Someone who has a 1000 ton license does not necessarily understand a smaller boat. 

I will sail with my friend again when the opportunity arises but I have to live with the little voices in my head that tell me that something is not inherently safe. I do not try to push my old 1969 era boat as hard as I could because I have a little voice in my head that tells me that the chain plates might pull up or the motor might fail. This may be the reason I have not had so many BFS this season except for a 400+ nm delivery of a 51' Benneteau from Tortola to the TCI last June.
SplatDaddy, over and out.


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## CharlieCobra

Sailing a Mac 26S (not much bigger than my V-21) for 85 miles of mostly ocean, is fairly impressive. Ah yes, the forestays on the older Macs. I dropped my V-21 mast due to a parted forestay once. A little glass work and it was fine. Ya oughta see one of the little Macs under spinnaker. Talk about a white knuckle ride when the breeze is up.

We're not discussing the motorsailor abortions from MacGregor here. The 26S was a proper little sailboat with decent performance, if lightly built.


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## Valiente

Good story, Caleb. I suppose the moral is that a good skipper can sail a plank full of knotholes, but we aren't all good skippers <G>.

More than once it has occurred to me that a well-designed boat has saved a middling crew more often than a great crew have saved themselves with a middling boat. And by "middling", I don't mean poorly designed so much as I mean a boat out in conditions or situations that exceed to a greater or lesser degree those for which it was designed. Even a Westsail 32, one of the more bulletproof sailboats arguably ever built, can be sunk in vicious enough conditions.


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## smackdaddy

Good point Valiente. For me - when the time comes to hop into the salt - I'm thinking good boat..._very good boat_....for obvious reasons. I'll look into that Westsail.

I wonder if MacGregor would sponsor a circumnavigation attempt in one of their boats? Now that would be news, baby.


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## CharlieCobra

Their have already been circumnav's in Mac's, M65's that is.


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## artbyjody

CharlieCobra said:


> Their have already been circumnav's in Mac's, M65's that is.


BTW Charlie - did you ever find that gun yet?


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## CharlieCobra

Nah, I sold all of mine back in '86 when I left TX.


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## smackdaddy

And I'm the one that bought them all - so watch yourself pal.


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## smackdaddy

Here's a BFS in progress. The dude's name is Ccam - and the story part is second-hand from Charlie. He headed out just a couple of weeks ago. Hopefully Ccam will check in here and supply more of the story. Fair winds and BFS, Ccam!

"There's a fellow Texan up here who's sailing out of the Strait and turning left for Mexico and eventually points further South. His previous experience was sailing a Hobie Cat on a lake. Since then he's sailed a couple of places around here. He's taking a couple of folks with experience and just "Doing it!" His name is Cam and even though he doesn't yet have a bunch of stories of sailing through the "stuff" he embodies the spirit you're looking for."


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## smackdaddy

Caleb - nice story dude. And, yes, it definitely qualifies as BFS! You might want to refer back to the first page for the definition. No, it's not as insane as some of the others - but that's not the point. Even flailing newbies like us that have no earthly idea of what we're doing, but are willing to foolheartedly throw up a sail and go for it will have plenty of BFS. Even in a MacG. So give yourself some credit, dude. By the way, I could especially relate to pulling the boat along the dock by hand - using fishing line, poles, children, poodles, whatever - to get that damn thing to the slip. Not exactly pretty - but effective. And now you know all about 2 strokes. Good times.

Welcome. Now, set aside a handsome repair budget, then get out there and show that Tartan who's its daddy.


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## duckduckgoose

Right, due to inablity to concentrate at 0114, I have not yet read the whole of the thread.

My BFS experiences are somewhat less than a lot of ye, albeit quite varied. The thing about the area I live in, I should mention at this point, is that it tends to disobey the Beaufort scale slightly. Whatever it is about the underwater topography, it's very prone to heavy swell and it doesn't take much before there's a sizeable chop in the sea. 

My first BFS was kindly brought upon me at the tender age of ten (for the record I was one of these incredibly small for their age kids), in an optimist dinghy with my best friend. We were cast out into the force 4, gusting very strong 4, winds with 6 foot swell by our oh so kind instructor. We survived but only just! We attempted to return to shore several times and each time had an instructor turn us away at the slip. We were nearly in tears by the time we gave up on trying to get back to dry land! However, it is that single experience that taught me the most. Right at the very start of my sailing career, someone very kindly had the balls to tell me to man it up! Get back out there, use what you know, deal with it if you capsize, and sail through the bloody wind and have a damned good time doing it!

From then on I had several minor in retrospect but mega at the time BFSs including having my mast land on my head! Thankfully, it was only a small dinghy wooden mast and so I just return to the slip, put it back on and went back out. 

The most recent one happened three years ago. It was winter sailing and I was on a racing yacht with this amazing, mega mega **** hot racing team. I was a complete novice in the world of big boat sailing and was used to keeping the boat ultra flat so the whole concept of having a slight heel on the boat was unnerving enough as it was. 
Anyway, we got out and it was blowing a steady force 5 and the swell was higher than usual, as the wind had been at that for a good four days beforehand. The boat I was in was, twitchy, to say the least and had a long fin keel with a huge bulb on it, combined with a massive sail area. Got off to an interesting start, with me almost being swept overboard (saved only by grabbing onto a stanchion). 
Things were going ok generally and then the race course had us off out to sea and into heavier swell. Sails were nicely set, we were in the groove so onto the rail I went, along with 5 others. The side to side motion is just starting to make me feel slightly sick when we get a scream coming from the helm to say "BAD WAVE". I was halfway through forming a thought about how bad waves in a dinghy would compare with bad waves in a racing yacht when I found out. First I was slammed against the rail and then landed with a spine crushing thud onto the deck. And oh my the sound of that boat landing in the trough will never leave me!
So by now I'm in way, way past my depth. These guys on board are pros (genuinely were pro racers) that, quite frankly, don't give a **** how inexperienced I may be, they still want everything done as fast as they would normally do it. I've been thoroughly traumatised by the whole affair to date but at the same time was on an adrenaline high, so in a messed up kinda way, I was really enjoying myself. 
Then we round the windward mark. I'm on mast duty and somehow manage to get the spinnaker and pole up, to their satisfaction in an acceptable amount of time. I tidy up around the cockpit and start watching their technique. I tire of this and make motions to turn around and see how the race was progressing behind us (how lovely to see all the boats behind us, thought I). As I go to turn, the clever helm screams "NO! DON'T LOOK!". Curiosity prevails and I turn around, much to my horror to see a MASSIVE wave coming straight at us from behind. Now I am talking at least a 20ft wave. I stand there in complete shock, rooted to the spot with jaw hanging wide and then when it passes us without so much as a gentle side to side motion (due mainly to the skill of our trimmer), go into a happy elated state. 
The race carries on and eventually we're way way out to sea and on our final spinnaker run. Hoist goes ok but some of the lines get tangled. I'm right in the middle of untangling them when a bit of a rogue wave and huge gust hit us simultaneously. It's at this point we realise that we had also been marginally by the lee. To put it simply, we broached and we broached bad!!!!! Once we recovered from the broach, we carried on downwind minus the spinnaker, still in 1st place. I looked behind and not one other boat had hoisted their spinnaker on that leg! They must have had a giggle at our expense. When we finally made it back to shore I almost hugged the marina... Then I went out and did it all again the following week. 

Since then I've had no BFSs really. I think everything so far pales in comparison to that race season! Plus I've adopted a motto of "Any idiot can sail in big waves and strong winds. But can I solve problems in these conditions?"


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## jaschrumpf

At this point, I think that we should make a rule that no racing experience qualifies as a BFS. Those guys by definition are out to push the envelope at near any cost, while our BFS's are usually accidental, to say the least.


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## duckduckgoose

Oh believe me, on that day I was thoroughly unaware of exactly what I was getting myself in for!


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## jaschrumpf

You got on a racing boat with no idea what you were in for? 

New rule: ignorance disqualifies one for BFS's as well.


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## smackdaddy

Goose - that was Hall Of Fame. Period. You don't need to read the whole damn thread - you just defined it. From the appreciation of your hell-spawn instructor (which is the way it should be done BTW), to your freaky digging of the deep-spine-bruise from a rogue wave, to your learning from the best as they lay her in the water and still stay in the lead. THEN the desire to go right back out and do it again. You nailed it. That's BFS.

Schrumpf - dude, you can't be makin' rules after the whistle blows. BFS is BFS. So pipe down and come up with a better one...if you can.

See Goose - this is what I was telling you about. Wet blankets and cotton wool at every turn!


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## duckduckgoose

Thanks, good to see someone appreciated the story!


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## smackdaddy

Don't worry, I won't be the only one. And when you get a wet blanketer around here - just tell them to "woman it up"!


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## jaschrumpf

I'm sorry, but I thought these BFS stories were supposed to be about those you stumbled into by accident, not one you should have seen coming all along. "Winter sailing on a racing yacht with an amazing, mega mega **** hot racing team" should lead one to think that the experience might be more than just a normal daysail.

Racers put themselves in harm's way very frequently; it's the nature of the sport. And not that there's anything wrong with that.

I just thought that this thread was about "sails gone wild" that no one would have expected. Putting oneself in the way of danger is way different than having danger overtake you.

Sorry I misunderstood.


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## duckduckgoose

Allow me to clarify. 

At that time I had seven years experience with racing in dinghies and small keelboats. I knew the boat owner personally and inherently trust them. They've known me since I was born and I would trust that they would not land me in a position in which I was entirely unable to cope and a liability. I did not know who else was going to be on the crew. I had raced in winter before, but not on a boat like that. 

Did I think it was going to be a daysail? No. Only a fool would think that. However, I was in the dark about the extent to which these guys were willing to push the limits! (Not all racers are like that. Have you ever raced?)

I don't know why I've just replied, as I don't think I should have to justify myself to you...

edit: I'd just like to pick you up on a comment you made. "Racers put themselves in harm's way very frequently". I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Sorry if this is dragging the thread off topic, but no racer will intentionally put themselves in harms way. People know their limits and most people are aware of how far they can push the limits without being in serious trouble. Racers (especially racers like those guys) know how to cope in extreme circumstances. They know when to call it a day and when to carry on. They know when to put the storm sails up and when to shake out a reef. A novice going out in a force 5 is someone putting themselves in harms way. A person who is a seasoned americas cup and arc veteran going out in a force 5 is not putting themselves in harms way. "Harm's way" depends entirely on your experience and ability.


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## smackdaddy

No sweat Shrumpf, just throwing you a bit of grief. However, refer back to the manifesto on page 1 when you need a refresher. Bottom line (just to keep everyone focused):

*BFS simply means sailing that pushes limits - whatever those limits may be. *

That said, I think Goose hits on the very nerve of what seems to be our general attitude toward sailing over here (or at least what I see a hell of a lot of): we seem teach the fear first, then intellectualize the technique so that "big sailing" becomes so far out of reach for most of us that it all becomes "accidental" when it happens. In fact we seem to always advocate doing everything one can to avoid it at any cost. We keep everything too tame and too empirical for too long. And I'm really trying to figure out why that is. It's perfectly understandable if day sailing is one's only goal - and that is the case for most of the "market" I suppose. But how can this approach be good for sailors in the long term?

Alternatively, when you get pushed into "big stuff" early (that is stuff that seems very big to you, but is controlled and monitored by some mean-ol'-bastard salt/racer that's giving you advice and pushing you back out when you're crying to hit the hard) you learn a hell of a lot more - and do it a lot more quickly. A lot of people around here advocate crewing with people that know what they're doing. Seems like great advice to me. Especially when those people are expertly hammering away at BFS.

(PS - The "edit" above sums it all up very nicely Goose - or is it Duck - or is it the more formal yet tedious DuckDuckGoose?)


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## duckduckgoose

smackdaddy said:


> (PS - The "edit" above sums it all up very nicely Goose - or is it Duck - or is it the more formal yet tedious DuckDuckGoose?)


Either Goose or Duck is fine!  Or duckduckgoose if you're in the mood for some typing!


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## smackdaddy

Cool. Duck it is.

I'm outta here. I've got some rock climbing to do in the morning. It ain't sailing - but it'll do.


----------



## Stillraining

Noop your not the only one...Great story Goose...Makes me timid to post mine here now....but we just got our butts kicked.

Small craft warning were up today but we have a big boat so I figure that cant mean anything for me right... ..Well we get out there and were all having a pretty good time ..the girls are smiling moms a little nervous but confidant in me ( I think )..Im thinking boy this seams like more then a small craft warning but I dont say anything...I didn't find out till an hour ago when we got home, I confirmed that it was upped to a full gale warning by NOAA.... here I am with my all Newbie crew whom are out for only their second sail of there life... and to-boot I said just a few days ago here at Sailnet that I'd be taking it easy with them for quite a while too... they got a little more then they or I bargained for...but other then mom all had pretty big grins on..Mom wasent terrified but pretty uneasy when we hit 30+ degrees a few times..

A couple of mishaps were in the wind also ...first my swing keel would not lower..Its only our second sail and we didnt have enough wind to even bother dropping it last week but it would have helped us point today and heal less..and would have helped ( I think ) moms nerves a little..she still isn't convinced were not going to just fall over because of it or once we get to a certain point.. sooooo.. Ray..... .. when you do dive on your boat next week maybe I do have a little job for you now..


Anyway.... It was really howling buy this time and we took in some more head sail for the second or third time..we were again only out with Genny today , I was hoping to hoist more sail today but decided against it right away...The plan for the day was to head 18 miles south to Coupeville eat lunch and sail back but we were battling almost directly into the wind at this point and local features mandate you stay in a narrow slot of about 1/2 to 3/4 mile wide for a good 3 + miles or so... so we had really zero sea room to tack in...I finally made the decition to abort destination Coupeville and just play around right where we were at.

The second mishap was while plunging into the waves on a close haul the anchor gets knocked loose from its tether and heads for china...It took several seconds to figure out what the heck that ripping tearing noise was ..I thought we were loosing the head sail..one of my daughters zeroed in on it and yelled DAD!. the anchor is dropping..Im glad we took another adult friend along today as I had my strongest daughter , my wife and my friend Steve all on the bow hoisting up who knows how many feet of chain and a 45lb CQR back on board..I veered off the wind to try and keep them dry and stop the plunging as best I could.

After they succeeded in stowing the anchor we spun around and ran with the wind on a deep reach where we had more sea room ..not much mind you but about a mile and a half.. but as I was to find out.. when we finally decide to call it quits after the wind built even more... and turn back into the wind we were caught in Irons... trying to bring her bow around into that wind with only that tiny patch of head sail out... after several attempts in both directions I knew we were done for the day at this point...So I fired up the Iron Genny and we headed her up... rolled in her tiny little patch remaining and scooted in for home. Boy did we get soaking wet..

I will post the wind record for you to look at..My newbie crew ended up in a full Gale our second outing...47 Knts gusts..

Charlie Cobra would have been proud.. 

OH...Docking was a little interesting too..... 

That beer in the Pub looking out the windows at what we just came in from sure tasted good...Oh and Charlie it was Fat Tire too.......what can I say... 

Anyway Smacky...If you ask any of my women...this was a BFS....


----------



## CalebD

Thanks for the 'cred' snacky. The MacG 26S is a lightweight boat but I have come to respect that it is pretty capable in the right hands. That sail/delivery was quite memorable for me as the "Blue Devils" air show flew right over us after we got out of the mouth and mini tidal race of Fire Island Inlet. Being buzzed by all kinds of aircraft flying low was pretty impressive.
I rather liked GooseDuckGoose's BFS contribution too. The waters around Ireland have a reputation as do the lee shores with rocky cliffs. I am curious of the exact port (or maybe I missed that)?
Still, get your swing keel, center board or dagger board working. She will behave in a more stately manner once that bit of equipment is in working order. I know. My T27' has a centerboard that does help us out a lot.
I remember one day sail on the Hudson in our Tartan. There were only 2 boats out that afternoon and the wind was running around 20 kts, or so I thought. Our crew was me, my boat partner and my wife. The other boat, a Cal 28' had some other club members on it who refused to reef. 
We left our mooring and set all of our sails and kept up with the Cal with the NW winds but we started rounding up in the strengthening wind and taking water over the rail. The Cal was rounded up in some of the gusts too but they were having too much of a good time and were really enjoying their beverages and the autumn wind. 
Our boat gets a bit slower once it starts getting rounded up in winds over 22 knots and she rides a little flatter and faster once reefed so I recommended we motor into the lee of the cliffs of the Palisades and put in a reef, which we did. We sailed back out and caught up to the Cal and were able to withstand the gusts more on our feet. Once we got back to the club and met the other boating party they indicated that there were gusts to 37 kts (no wind instruments on our boat) which did not entirely surprise me. They never reefed but have a heavier boat and I am still glad we did reef as there was less strain on our ancient boats chainplates (1969) which have a way of pulling up or out.
I would not call that a BFS as it was just an afternoon day sail but it was a really great sail in some good wind.


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## farmboy

Goose,

Please keep justifying yourself, despite your frustration. We can learn a lot from you.


Smack,

I don't have any formal sailing instruction, so this is just speculation. I think that part of this issue is liability. If an accident happens and a sailing instructor is teaching hard sailing, there will be hard questions, maybe lawsuits. What sailing instructor/school wants to expose themselves to that? Right or wrong, that's the way it seems to be. That's why I think the informal instruction has a lot to offer. It is a way to build on the sailing classes. I've been lucky to find a world class sailor who after living at sea for years, retired to my little home town. Big wind or small, he and his wife like to come sailing with me and my girl. Lucky us.


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## CharlieCobra

I was wondering if you were going out to play Scott. It was a blowin' yesterday for sure. I was at two youth football games and the wind was 30-35 and the rain was about 70* from vertical. Ya just have to man up an take it. Both my Grandson's teams won and they both had good games. I do plan on getting some Gale sailing in this year on OP boats, if I can arrange it.

Docking in that stuff can get tricky, kinda like a controlled crash landing sometimes.

Oh, I reckon ya found out ya can't go to windward when it's heavy without a bit of Main up. Of course, being a ketch, you could've run your Mizzen deeply reefed and had enough help to punch through the tack.


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## CharlieCobra

Duck, I hang and sail with a cast of characters like you went sailing with on that Winter season, wild ain't they? However, they are wild in a controlled manner and regardless of the appearance of hanging it all on the line, put safety of the boat and crew first. They're just willing to sail in and accept conditions that most folks won't. Great peeps to be with when it all hits the fan though.


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## blt2ski

Was sailing/racing in the Foulweather Bluff race yesterday, she lived up to her name sake for the 2nd yr in a row with winds into the 30's and 40's! We did pretty good all things considering, altho a storm jib up would have made things better than a 110 and double reef. 

From a phone call last night, Jody got knocked down twice and retired from the race, Dejoenda, had a rope to the rolerfurling break, but finished with just him and his daughter.

Fun day none the less.

marty


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## jrd22

Still- being out yesterday is definitely a BFS, it was blowing the tops off the waves here in the gusts. I went for a little bfs myself, in the inflatable. I decided that I should row out and move our crab boat off the mooring and into the marina before it got any worse. The waves weren't too big, maybe 2', but the wind was blowing a steady 25+ or better and gusts a lot higher. I pushed off the beach and had to try to row a bit upwind to get to the boat. First thing I know the bow is lifting like it's going to flip over and I'm heading the opposite direction towards the gas dock pier. I got it turned back towards the boat and made an attempt at going into wind again - Ha! what a joke - by the time I got it back into the beach I was about 100' downwind from where I started and had to drag the boat back to the yard. It was hair raising I tell ya, wait.... I'm bald. Nah, actually it was just dumb, should of known better, but I love that boat out there. ps. crab boat survived even though it got REALLY nasty later and I had to just sit in the house and watch it. So was this a BFS or just BS, this whole thread has me confused 

John


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## CharlieCobra

John, ya weren't sailing, you were rowing so that would make it a BFR!


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## SelkirkGrace

*Flag Halyard*



knothead said:


> Rigger's little buddy.


So you just tie the piton on to the fixed rigging and then run a halyard up through it to carry the flag? Gotta picture?


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## Stillraining

CharlieCobra said:


> I was wondering if you were going out to play Scott. It was a blowin' yesterday for sure. I was at two youth football games and the wind was 30-35 and the rain was about 70* from vertical. Ya just have to man up an take it. Both my Grandson's teams won and they both had good games. I do plan on getting some Gale sailing in this year on OP boats, if I can arrange it.
> 
> Docking in that stuff can get tricky, kinda like a controlled crash landing sometimes.
> 
> *Oh, I reckon ya found out ya can't go to windward when it's heavy without a bit of Main up.* Of course, being a ketch, you could've run your Mizzen deeply reefed and had enough help to punch through the tack.


Yep I agree Charlie.... and yes " I found out"......I told the crew at the time we were lacking power from mid ship.

Never owning a Ketch before I was lying in bed this morning theorizing about a little patch up on the mizzen instead of the main.... I think It would have balanced out the boat perfectly in thoes conditions as you say...It would have given us drive from even further aft and punched us around....In retrospect hoisting any more sail would have only been somthing I would have tried to do in an emergency ( say we lost the engine ) out there...I mean with the green crew and running out of sea room as we were so to speak in thoes conditions it was just time to call it a day.

..We were never in any pearl for thoes wondering my sanity... I always could have run through an 800' wide slot and hid behind an Island...not always mind you but that is one benefit of the PNW there seems to be an option out of the wind somewhere most of the time...Of course thats the bane in the summer time around here also..all thoes darn Islands blocking your wind..

Another thing I think might have worked with an experienced crew is ..once you get your momentum up and start your turn, to blow the working sheet way before luff point to unload the sail and let momentum finish the turn then pull like all get out...I really think it would work on my boat as she seems to carry quite a bit of momentum..we could get close but not close enough...another problum I saw was with that little of head sail out on a roller furler the shape is really pretty bad for a storm sail...too much draft in the sail..I can see now a real use for a removable baby stay which I have both deck and mast hardware for...having seen the stress imposed on my roller furling gear and violent shake that head stay was taking from it I would not want to rely on it in wind of that force or greater..
Not only that but you would also be reducing the turning moment due to the fact the wind is acting on a sail 4' closer to the keels center of pivot. ( Im sure thats not the corect nautical way of explaining it but you catch my drift.)

OH PS:...My new forestay passed the test..nice to get that out of the way right off the bat..


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## jrd22

Charlie- when you are moving that fast down wind under bare poles (me), believe me, it feels like sailing  But like most posts here it's not a BFS, more like a BFD.


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## Stillraining

jrd22 said:


> Still- being out yesterday is definitely a BFS, it was blowing the tops off the waves here in the gusts. I went for a little bfs myself, in the inflatable. I decided that I should row out and move our crab boat off the mooring and into the marina before it got any worse. The waves weren't too big, maybe 2', but the wind was blowing a steady 25+ or better and gusts a lot higher.
> John


John: I have asked everyone even again this morning if they had fun...I got a big yes form everyone but mom...she said she dosent see a need to purposely sail in gales or small craft warnings for that matter...but said she now knows better what a sail boat will handel and what it handles like in thoes conditions so if caught out wont be as nervous as she was...

Thethers , life jackets and rain gear for all are now on top of my list..This was most of her fear yesterday I believe.


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## CharlieCobra

John, never having run under bare poles, even in 60, I couldn't tell ya how fast that feels. I can tell ya what having too much canvas up feels like. The best offwind run in heavy air that I've experienced was in 50-55 with just the Staysail up. It was 8 knots of smooth, comfortable sailing, unlike the first time with too much up. Considering that sail is only 90 sq. ft., it was pretty close to bare poles.


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## erps

Sounds like another blow coming in tomorrow Scott. Wanna go out? We'll take your boat. I don't wanna break stuff on mine.

BTW, when we were boat shopping last time around, we ruled out a couple of nice boats because the head was located up in the bow. Can you imagine trying to do your business up in the bow in rough water?


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## smackdaddy

Still - Awesome BFS dude! Hopefully your family hadn't seen your previous posts about taking it easy on them. Otherwise, they'll think you're just completely insane. I love the impromptu anchor drill. Keeps everyone on their toes. Drawing on my early sailing lessons (the idiots), I also found out the hard way about trying to beat into heavy wind with just a head sail. I was able to sail backwards through the buoyed swimming area, very efficiently I might add, with complete precision and a stoic countenance (sound like what you saw on the Potomac Duck?). I especially love the fact that your kids are ready to rock another BFS! Yeah! THAT's the way it should be. BTW - Mom's first comment sounds like most of the posters around here - except that these knuckleheads never quite get around to the second part of her comment. Sign that lady up! As you say, just safety up hard - and keep the rum flowing - and Mom will get that bug too!

Caleb - yet again definitely a BFS story! That Cal 28 was rockin' the house, dude, doin' it up right! I wanna sail with those guys! You really should get that repair budget together so you can get there too some day (or follow erps' lead and crew on that Cal).

Farmboy - I suppose you're right. It would be good to hear from any ASA instructors on Sailnet that have an opinion about this. Don't worry guys, we won't sue you - we'll just heckle you! In any case, I agree with your point about going informal. Like Duck, I want to learn big from people that actually do it - I can read the books at home in the spa with a rum toddy. You're lucky to have someone around like him.

Charlie - good point on the racer mentality. It's like there is this inherent gulf of pissiness between racers and cruisers. And all we are saying, is give peace a chance......you big gaggle of wusses! Or is it weese? (heh-heh)

blt - sounds like a honkin' day dude! Is that our Artsy Fartsy Jody that took one in the teeth? Man, I'll have to send him some "kudos". Definitely BFS!

JRD - you nut! Definitely a Big Freakin' Row (not a fight Duck, a "paddle" - though around here I'm sure we'll get you another row soon!). But then you turn around and harsh the other BFS herein. What's up with that Mr. Bare Pole? Who made you the BFS king? I'm afraid I have to send you back to page one for a re-orientation, dude. They're all BFS. Helloooo. Or, of course, we can go to FightClub for a BFR - Duck style. So tell us about the bare pole sail - or stick to the dinghy.

erps - I love it! When the big stuff comes in - take out your friend's boat! Sweet! Definitely cuts down on the repair costs. Are you at least buying the booze? Bring back a BFS, boys!


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## CharlieCobra

erps said:


> Sounds like another blow coming in tomorrow Scott. Wanna go out? We'll take your boat. I don't wanna break stuff on mine.
> 
> BTW, when we were boat shopping last time around, we ruled out a couple of nice boats because the head was located up in the bow. Can you imagine trying to do your business up in the bow in rough water?


****! I gotta work tomorrow.

Ya best have melamine bulkheads cause they'd get sprayed regular. Even the normal practice of having everyone sit wouldn't work cause you'd get launched all of the time. You'd have to have seat belts on the head.


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## CharlieCobra

smack, racers typically don't have to pay for what they break, that's the owner's job so yes, they'll push harder than owner/cruisers.


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## Stillraining

erps said:


> Sounds like another blow coming in tomorrow Scott. Wanna go out? We'll take your boat. I don't wanna break stuff on mine.
> 
> BTW, when we were boat shopping last time around, we ruled out a couple of nice boats because the head was located up in the bow. Can you imagine trying to do your business up in the bow in rough water?


LETS DO IT!..No dodder you will get wet..

PS..Additional aft cabin head to-boot...


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## smackdaddy

You know - I'm starting to notice that the PNW crew is a little more hardcore than the EC crew. I wonder why that is?

Duck - you may want to take note for your next sailing adventure to our fair land of "milk and toxic debt". They seem to be rippin' like Ireland up there.

Go get 'em guys! Oh yeah, and erps, just pee in the cockpit! Haven't you read the BFS tales herein which advocate that very thing! Sorry about your cockpit Still.


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## CharlieCobra

Maybe because except for maybe 60 days a year, all we have is nasty weather to sail in. If we didn't sail in the slop up here, we wouldn't sail much. The EC guys, at least North of the Chessie, have to haul their boats in the Winter. We don't and can sail year round. Our proximity to the Gulf of Alaska sends us Gales all the time.


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## smackdaddy

You lucky bastards.


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## CharlieCobra

I dunno, when it's 34F and blowing 45 with sideways rain/sleet, it not exactly comfy no matter what ya have on. Sleet in your earhole sucks!


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## Valiente

And people ask why I got a pilothouse cutter.

"Don't you feel cut off from Nature?" they ask.

"Yes," I reply, "but it's only three steps away, or two hatch handles, if it's really blowing."


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## T34C

smackdaddy said:


> You know - I'm starting to notice that the PNW crew is a little more hardcore than the EC crew. I wonder why that is?
> .


Really??? I thought the rule was, "Pictures or it didn't happen"??????

Just a theory, but maybe the PNW crew is just full of more hot air. (read BS)


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## CharlieCobra

Seems to me that most of the PNW threads contain pics.

Besides, your confusing Sailnet with SA.


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## T34C

CharlieCobra said:


> Seems to me that most of the PNW threads contain pics.
> 
> Besides, your confusing Sailnet with SA.


What picks????

Besides, I said it was just a theory. (I didn't even say it was MY theory.)


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## CharlieCobra

T34C, you sailing outta Chitown? You guys get plenty of nastiness in the Fall there.


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## Giulietta

(OK...I am sorry..it's time for a relaity check here.)

Where I come from, we measure *wind in knots*, and waves in meters, but can do conversion to feet. I can multiply.

*I own a boat designed to sail in strong winds*, I do not reef *bellow 30 *knots, and I have many witnesses here that can attest that. I sail North Atlantic Portuguese coast.

I sail now fo 37 years, pretty much none of them as cruiser..so as far as sailing, I can be considered somewhat experienced ..in what sailing on the edge of the boat's performance is.

My boat has a LWL of 42 feet, and a draft of 10 feet with *4000 *Lbs lead *on the end of it*...I have a beam of 14 feet...and an open transom..

My boat has more sail trim and trim features than any 2 boats I heve seen together....and she can take wind...I have witnesses too.

*I DO NOT, AND HAVE NEVER SAILED IN ANYTHING OVER 50 Knots*....neither do I want to....if it gets that bad, I motor home and hope I can make it in time.

I was hit by a storm last year, and the winds were only 45 to 50 knots really measured, (not Jack said that Tom said that he heard Mike say it was)...I CAN'T SAIL IN THAT MERDA....I CAN'T....I DON'T KNOW HOW TO, AND I DOUBT THAT ANYONE THAT SAILS IN THOSE CONDITONS, SHORT OF TRYING TO SURVIVE, CAN. IF THEY SAY THEY DO IT'S MERDA DE BOI!!!! HOT SMELLY STEAMY MERDA DE BOI....

am I a bad sailor?? maybe...is my boat a piece of merda??? maybe...

BUT NEVER EVER *WILL I ACCEPT *BEING ACCUSED OF TELLING MERDA DE BOI, I JUST DON'T....SO I DON'T TELL MERDA DE BOI...

AND ANYONE HERE THAT EVER HEARS ME TALK MERDA DE BOI..all you have to ask is for a photo or a video...I have plenty...

Let me post this here table bellow so we can call it a reality check...

OK????

READ THE DAMN THING!!!!! READ IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!










I can't get that crap to show bigger HERE IS THE DAMN SITE..have a look...

These here bellow are photos of the day I got hit...

I ran for shelter, the waves in the ocean were 20 feet, and the waves inside the bay were only 6 feet, not much but with the wind !!! IT SCARED THE MERDA OUT OF ME!!!!

It was a scale 9 to 10 in beaufort.....IT SCARED ME!!!

That day 5 boats dragged and washed ashore..IN THE DAMN COVERED SHELTERED BAY!!!!! in 50 knts!!!!!














































Please, let's either be realistic with the numbers we are writing here on these threads, or elese, please make sure to post a sign saying its MERDA DE BOI!!!!

I mean...everyone can see it's merda de boi....the newbies can't...OK???

JUST BE RALISTIC....or maybe you guys measure wind in pubic hairs per hour and waves in toothpicks.....let's just stop the BS, ahem...the MDB...

It stinks already...

By the way...I am for it too...NO PHOTO DIDN'T HAPPEN....

THIS is bad..the newbies can't see the differnce..and soon everyone is going to think on Sailnet, there's a bunch of old lying sacks...that can't get it up..I refuse to be part of that.

please be realistic..it's good for everyone, and makes my digestion smooth..

TIME TO START CALL OUT THE MERDA DE BOI!!! (yay or nay??)

Thank you


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## CharlieCobra

Alex, don't be calling BS when ya weren't there. 

Case in point, on the delivery run with Oh Joy, the forecasts were for 25-35 MAX and 10 hrs into the trip the winds were 62 KNOTS gusting to 78 KNOTS. That's Nautical Miles Per Hour, in case you were confused. That stuff happens up here but the important difference is I'm sailing in the Puget Sound where the maximum fetch is maybe 150 miles. That means I get wind waves but few or no swells, unless crossing the San Juan de Fuca. Nobody here in the PNW goes looking for Force 9+ winds but we will sail in a Gale. We WILL NOT sail in a Gale off the coast, unless we have a deathwish. BIG difference between 21'+ combined waves in 50 knots on a Lee shore and 8-12' wind waves in the Sound. By the way, all of my original threads on sailing had pictures, as did most of the threads from fellow PNW'ers.


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## smackdaddy

Giu, dude, all I've got to say is that you've got one bad-ass dodger! Personally, when it gets up to 40 knots I never can keep my zipper closed. But that's just me. Schwinggg!

Oh yeah - and T, don't be so grumpy. Give us your BFS. Just one. You don't even have to follow the PHE!


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## Giulietta

CharlieCobra said:


> I like ya fine Alex but when ya go calling BS, I'm likely to tell ya to piss off.


Well I like you too, and you know that...

but since you were rude...please allow me the retribution....consider yourself pissed, too....

I am done here...


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## Giulietta

smackdaddy said:


> Giu, dude, all I've got to say is that you've got one bad-ass dodger! Personally, when it gets up to 40 knots I never can keep my zipper closed. But that's just me. Schwinggg!


I did remove the dodger later, as it hit 50...and if you look in the first photos the boats that were there had them off too....


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## camaraderie

Just look at my Avatar if you want Pix Giu...that day was unbelievable... Beaufort 8 gusting to 10 and 30 foot seas...yet I had all sails flying! Worst weather I've ever been out on and I was single handing. Top that you crazy sardine eater!


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## smackdaddy

Cam - do you have higher res pics of your boat? It really looks pretty incredible - event sized for Smurfs. (edit - never mind, I just found this really cool tool called "View Profile" which has a link to your shamelessly promoted website)

And Giu - just smackin' you a bit - it's what brings in my Sailnet royalties. However, I bet wrestling a big piece of canvass in a blow of 50 pubic hairs was a freakin' nightmare!


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## CharlieCobra

Giulietta said:


> Well I like you too, and you know that...
> 
> but since you were rude...please allow me the retribution....consider yourself pissed, too....
> 
> I am done here...


No problem, just a friendly disagreement. You have a PM and my apology.

Sometimes we Americans forget that different cultures see things, well, differently. I've told some of my best friends to F' off, in jest and they understood that it was in jest, whether I looked serious or not.


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## smackdaddy

Okay - focus people! Enough FightClub, let's get back to BFS. Although - man do I like a good scruff! So, while we're at it, purely in terms of PHE, I do have to say that the heartiest photo evidence I've seen thus far of a BFS moment is Charlie's photo with the fenders a-flying on page 7. The link appears to be broken now - but it was pretty damn big.

Also, let's try very hard not to forget the Photo-Happen Edict Addenda of BFS.


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## bestfriend

Wind in Knots anyone?


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## CharlieCobra

Photobucket's down.


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## CharlieCobra

bestfriend said:


> Wind in Knots anyone?


I quote knots in mine and have posted up NOAA records to show it during original threads of various sails. Some folks quote MPH which is what? 10% slower?

EDIT: The pic wasn't showing when I posted this...

As to the pic above, the tops are just starting to blow off and there's no fog from spray so I'm gonna say 45-50 knots.


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## bestfriend

Just guess.....anyone......


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## Giulietta

50 knots?????


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## bestfriend

and no looking it up!


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## erps

We kept dipping the rails on this particular day, but it was because the dog wouldn't stay in the middle and when he would shift his weight, all the beer cans would roll over to that side as well.


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## bestfriend

erps said:


> We kept dipping the rails on this particular day, but it was because the dog wouldn't stay in the middle and when he would shift his weight, all the beer cans would roll over to that side as well.


Now THATS what sailings about!


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## jrd22

I'm guessing sustained 35-45, gusts to 60K.

Erps- now that's what I call a BFS (best friend sail).


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## Valiente

I have sailed in a steady 30-35 knots, and I have been in a gust of 40 knots. That was bad enough, and I felt very challenged, particularly when tacking through, because I could imagine what a gear failure would mean under such conditions.

But I happened to be at my club when a summer squall roared through a few years back, and the wind speed meter at the club hit 52 knots. Our little lake here looked like a washing machine, and water sprayed up eight metres to the second floor of the building. Outside, I saw a 41 foot C&C racer try to enter the seawall entrance, but they couldn't do it safely without being pushed into the wall itself, because the "overfall" was nearly a metre into our basin. In the basin, dock lines snapped and moorings were shifted. A group of boats were rafted together and very nearly broke apart...there was cleat and deck damage. Later that day, the high pressure behind the squall line produced loads of sunshine and sustained 25 gusting to 40 knots winds. A racer in a C&C 29 was killed by the boom in a crash gybe. A catamaran in Lake Erie pitchpoled and killed its owners. This was in July, 2000. Anyone can look it up.

Fifty-two knots is the heaviest wind I've seen, and I have to say that there is a point, maybe after 40 knots, where the sea just seems to go completely crazy, and it is very hard to concentrate, so much information and sound and water is going on. Every account I've ever read about survival sailing has emphasized how easy it is to make the wrong decision because it is very tiring to be in that environment. So, bragging about BFSs might be fun, but there is a breaking point between the bold sailor and the old sailor, and it's got nothing to do with fun.


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## CharlieCobra

I can tell ya that when we got pinned on the face of that wave and couldn't turn back downwind, I left lip marks in the cushion from pucker factor. If that had been a breaking sea, we would've been toast then and there. Stuff like that sits in the back of your mind when you've sailed in a few blows like that and ya wonder, will I stay lucky? It makes ya more hesitant to get out there in the middle of it. I'm not quite as ready to charge off into the teeth of a Gale as I was a year ago, at least, not on purpose.


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## Valiente

bestfriend said:


> Wind in Knots anyone?


I am going to guess 55 knots, and I am also going to guess that was shot in the Bass Strait during one of the Sydney-Hobart races of the last 10 years. The seas have the horrible look I associate with other pictures I've seen of the event.


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## camaraderie

Those are 100 knot winds and 50 foot seas. We had full sail up as long as we could but the crew finally talked me in to tucking an a reef.


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## JohnRPollard

bestfriend said:


> Wind in Knots anyone?


BF, I can finally see the photo (couldn't earlier).

That is not a small boat, and they are hard pressed even with just a trysail. Some full breaking waves (not just the crests).

I would put that at Force 11+. Winds steady above 55, probably gusting to 70+. Very nasty. Survival conditions.

Photos are deceptive -- so that's just my guess. I didn't look it up.


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## smackdaddy

erps - I'm sorry, but I have to call MDB on that one. I mean, you really need a reality check here dude. Your dog doesn't even have a damn tether! What kind of drunken skipper are you?

Rating:


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## sailaway21

For a minute there I was going to have to call Cam on his last post...you don't get 30 foot seas in Force 8 conditions. Good on ya, Cam.

Now to the rest of the malarkey here that's got Giu in fits.

From bestfriend's picture it's of course impossible to tell the wind velocity but the sea conditions are what one would expect from Force 8, or gale, conditions...and it's been blowing that way awhile. You do not see the tops of seas being blown off to the extent you do in 9 or 10. And the seas are not really heaping up yet.

As to the rest of the claims here I'd only mention that wind speeds and wave heights are notoriously inaccurately measured and that a relatively small sailboat is perhaps the worst possible position to do so from within. I am dubious of reports of anything in excess of 40 knots sustained. At such wind velocities the wind begins to produce spindrift. Beyond that, some form of facial protection becomes necessary. 50 knots will blow the paint off the side of your boat.

I've been through numerous typhoons, fortunately never the eye of one. All this talk of carrying sail in conditions approaching those conditions and being anything other than a passenger on board a driven vessel is, in my opinion, just talk. Fifty knots sustained at sea in a sailboat and you're not talking about it on sailnet, you're praying to never see it again. Forget the seas, the wind through the rigging alone makes communication and even movement difficult tending towards impossible. The rain will rip your face raw. Somewhere around Force 10 the laugh phenomena makes itself known. That's when you laugh because you've become aware that your life is not your own any longer.

I'm inclined to side with the Portagee on this one.


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## CharlieCobra

Folks, I'm gonna say this one, last, time. Myself and most of the PNW sailors sail in the Sound. While we have the wind and wind waves we do not have the monster swells to go with it. The max fetch is about 150 miles North to South and the prevailing Gales around here tend to be Southerlies. the only time we see swells with Gales is from the West at the mouth of the San Jaun de Fuca and those are degraded by the time we see them. Sailing in the Sound in Gale or Storm conditions is a FAR cry from sailing in the ocean off our coast. Folks don't gale sail in the Pacific off our coast unless they have a deathwish. Remember, it's apples and oranges we're talking about.

However, the noise level above 50 knots is incredible and ya communicate with hand signals. Radio headsets, walkie talkies and yelling don't work as you can hardly hear yourself yell.


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## JohnRPollard

OKay BF, give us the answer....


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## artbyjody

sailaway21 said:


> I'm inclined to side with the Portagee on this one.


After this weekend , I had my own dosage of such. Since you are in these neck of the woods, maybe you did get it. But for three years I have sailed here, nadda once experienced the wrath of the Pugent Sound as I did this weekend. 20 foot swells and the wind didn't go below 36-38 knots sustained for most of the return leg after we doused the sails, with gusts well over 40. Was a long - wet, miserable ride...and that is not including the knockdowns we endured with sails up...but when in it you have no choice but do it and hope you make it back in one piece and this is the reason I think this BFS crapola is simply bs...Even guys on the flying tigers I know - stated it wasn't fun ride either. Boats have limitations, and usually the biggest limitation is the respect the skipper has for mother nature as she certainly ain't gonna give you any....At any rate carry on Smack-a-roos, enjoy the smack... one day you'll have a actually sobering experience and hopefully when you are actually sober or off those there drugs you take...


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## CharlieCobra

artbyjody said:


> After this weekend , I had my own dosage of such. Since you are in these neck of the woods, maybe you did get it. But for three years I have sailed here, nadda once experienced the wrath of the Pugent Sound as I did this weekend. 20 foot swells and the wind didn't go below 36-38 knots sustained for most of the return leg after we doused the sails, with gusts well over 40. Was a long - wet, miserable ride...and that is not including the knockdowns we endured with sails up...but when in it you have no choice but do it and hope you make it back in one piece and this is the reason I think this BFS crapola is simply bs...Even guys on the flying tigers I know - stated it wasn't fun ride either. Boats have limitations, and usually the biggest limitation is the respect the skipper has for mother nature as she certainly ain't gonna give you any....At any rate carry on Smack-a-roos, enjoy the smack... one day you'll have a actually sobering experience and hopefully when you are actually sober or off those there drugs you take...


That part I can agree with. It's one thing to go out for a spirited sail in 30 knots and quite another when it climbs well North of that.


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## smackdaddy

Oh now Jody - you're getting all morose again. One day up - the next day down. Look - I respect the fact that you were out in big stuff, and I especially respect the fact that you got back in one piece. But what you so morosely define as unfun crapola - a dude just a couple pages back, that was on the same water as you (if you are referring to the Foulweather Bluff race) states that he actually had fun.

Ah yes, the very essence of BFS. One salt looking at the same conditions as another and seeing something completely different - and far less dire. Takes us right back to page one:

_"For an old salt, these limits will obviously be worlds beyond those of the typical newbie. That old salt will probably snicker at the point at which the newbie becomes terrified - understandably so. Yet, there will inevitably be an even more seasoned salt that will, in turn, snicker at the snickerer when he/she soils his/her own breeches in a blow. It's all subjective and un-ownable."_

Hang in there dude.


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## Stillraining

Im with John..55 to 65 gusts..45 sustained..Thats a lot of mast..

It is totally irrelevant to use the Buford scale here in the Puget Sound that is way I dont do it..You guys in unprotected waters put up with more at 15 knots then we will at 30...This is not a fair comparison and thats why I dont like Smacky singling out people and I made a coment regarding that this is not SA this is Sailnet we get along better over here..Lets try and keep it that way guys...
If you dont want my stories OK I wont put any more here..I tell the truth in all I do so no skin lost..I posted the NOAA wind record for you we were out there..I had a friend along and was excited to show him my boat and get going and I for got one camera in my car...I had another camera in my ditch bag..I pulled it out right after our biggest heal right befor we took in somemore head sail and the batteries showed a red light I would have ruined the camera if I would have tried to put new ones in which I had in the bag too..we were getting soaking wet from spray..I'm sorry guess it must have been a dream...I had suspicions some would doubt..thats OK..

Mine was just a story not ever intended to be bragging or Bravado..I was excited to share it that was all..that my family actually did good and didnt freak out and is not afraid to go out with me again after that.. it was way more then we bargained for..but I was not afraid..never.. I new I had a way out behind an Island if I needed one..I was woried about parting the roller furler line thats all..that made me a little nervous.

Its ok if no one believes me really I dont even care..I was there...I learned a lot about my boat in a few short hours..we had a good time genrally and yes I would do it again because I would want to learn if a little patch on the mizzen would have been better or worse..but would want more experiance on the boat with any more sail up then we had.. I cant find that out over a beer in a bar talking about it or looking at this screen..I will have to go out an do it...sorry

Ray if your serious about going out tomorrow I am ready...Charlie I could use you too...we really need three people if it get as bad...dont you feel the 24 hour flu comming on...

I am done here also..

Smacky ..maybe you were right afterall.

And I was just starting to have fun..


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## smackdaddy

Still - and everyone else...I want you all to look at something...

We've had many, many pages of great BFS stories, with both Sailnet newbies and salts offering their tales. We've had lots of fun, lots of good lessons, and we've been getting along just fine. As a matter of fact, I think all in all it's been downright positive.

So, the question is - where is all the bad Mojo coming from? Take a look at the last few pages and the posters and their tone. This is exactly why I sunk FC and started this thread - to try to get back to talking about sailing. These same guys that have just done their drive by always kept crying foul in FC that it was not about good sailing stories but comparing wieners. It was a club - they complained - that lumped people into sailors - not sailors. Fine. We rebooted. 

Now they're back - and what are they doing? Exactly what they complained about in FC.

I've always held that it was always just about attitude. So - the question really is...

What is the real problem with Sailnet?

I say we keep having fun tellin' our tales.

Freeeeeedommmmmmm!


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## sailaway21

Rainy,
I'd not take it personally-at least from my end-I'm just questioning some of the wind speeds "documented". What type of damage was there on shore? See, at Force 10, 48-55 knots, you start to have trees uprooted and broken in two. I do not doubt that any of the experiences were intense.


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## CharlieCobra

Scott I wish I could come but I'm running a team effort tomorrow with very high visibility. Wanting to learn what different combo's work in heavy weather is why I still go out in it. Like Scott reiterated, the difference in what we see in the Sound and what one will see on the open ocean is like night and day in the same wind speed conditions.

Scott, don't let 'em run ya outta here. Some folks actually appreciate your sailing stories.


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## sailaway21

smackdaddy said:


> Still - and everyone else...I want you to look at something...
> 
> We've had many, many pages of great BFS stories, with both Sailnet newbies and salts offering their tales. We've had lots of fun, lots of good lessons, and we've been getting along just fine. As a matter of fact, I think all in all it's been downright positive.
> 
> So, the question is - where is all the bad Mojo coming from? Take a look at the last few pages and the posters and their tone. This is exactly why I sunk FC and started this thread - to try to get back to talking about sailing. These same guys that have just done their drive by always kept crying foul in FC that it was not about good sailing stories but comparing wieners. It was a club - they complained - that lumped people into sailors - not sailors. Fine. Now they're back - and what are they doing? Exactly what they complained about in FC.
> 
> I've always held that it was always just about attitude. So - the question really is...
> 
> What is the real problem with Sailnet?


Lemme take a guess. People flappin' their pie holes about somethin' they know nothin' about. But that's just my guess. Some may see it different.


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## CharlieCobra

sailaway, our winds are linear and unlike the Cyclonic stuff you and I are use to in Typhoons and Hurricanes. I went through five hurricanes and there's no comparison. During these storms we get trees down and power out, especially when it climbs over 50 knots but not much else. I did have to dodge an entire tree including roots in that big storm. The roots were at least 20' wide so it was easy to spot. Can ya imagine running across it after dark? I also saw what looked to be a brand new basketball but wasn't about to turn into the wind to pick it up.


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## smackdaddy

sailaway21 said:


> Lemme take a guess. People flappin' their pie holes about somethin' they know nothin' about. But that's just my guess. Some may see it different.


Sway - if you're talking about me not knowing much about it - you're right. I'm a sailing newbie. So what? This is the same kind of stuff you threw up at every turn in FC. You might want to take the time to read page one again - but all we're talking about are experiences that have pushed our personal limits. And we have thought these were actually rather exciting.

How exactly is this a bad thing?


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## CharlieCobra

sailaway21 said:


> Lemme take a guess. People flappin' their pie holes about somethin' they know nothin' about. But that's just my guess. Some may see it different.


Have ya spent any time out here sway? I spent a year in MI. Too damned cold for me.


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## artbyjody

smackdaddy said:


> Sway - if you're talking about me not knowing much about it - you're right. I'm a sailing newbie. So what? This is the same kind of stuff you threw up at every turn in FC. You might want to take the time to read page one again - but all we're talking about are experiences that have pushed our personal limits. And we have thought these were actually rather exciting.
> 
> How exactly is this a bad thing?


And no matter how many times you point someone to the pages you want them to read you do not read the same pages and realize - yes, we are talking about YOU (sam diddly smacky)...

You are a newbie and your so called "smack" and grand illusions of thinking you are the next moderator of "Sailnet meets SA Debates" is a bit well not quite SNL material...if you were Tina Fey maybe...

Go back to reading some books like "Sailing for Smacky" and other highly intellectual stuff...


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## smackdaddy

Ahhhmmmmm...who's we?


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## JohnRPollard

Hey Still,

I don't think anyone was singling out your story. No need to apologize for anything.

I have mixed feelings about this thread, too. But I think it's not a bad spot to post some good sailing stories like folks have been doing.

From time to time, some of us will go back and forth a bit about wind and wave conditions -- some of it is meant as a friendly challenge, but most of it is just good natured ribbing for the most part. 

I've sailed up your way, and taken a few ferries across some seriously windy patches of water. It can be intimidating - especially with that thick cloud cover and rain crushing your spirit. You PacNW American and Canadian sailors are a hardy bunch!

It's interesting to hear a common theme emerging: Those who've seen the 40+ knot conditions are pretty universal in their desire to avoid them in the future!


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## CharlieCobra

Yep! 30's fun, 40's are work and 50+ just plain SUCKS!


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## erps

> Rainy,
> I'd not take it personally-at least from my end-I'm just questioning some of the wind speeds "documented". What type of damage was there on shore?


Storm knocks out power in Puget Sound area - USATODAY.com


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## jrd22

Still- what most people don't realize about the winds around the PNW is that there is no such thing as open water. We live and sail in a vast network of venturis (islands with tall, steep sides). When we get the official wind reports they are from places like Smith Island which is in the middle of Juan de Fuca. In the narrows between islands that are oriented with the wind, as you were on Saturday, it can be significantly higher. We regularly see sailboats come through Peavine from Rosario where it might only be blowing 10-15K, and get knocked down to 50+degrees when they get hit, with all sails up, by the "Eastsounder" coming down through Orcas Is. at 30+K. It was just plain nasty Saturday, I was glad I wasn't out in it. IMHO if you have time to be takin' pictures, it ain't that bad (when you're short, or single handed).

John


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## blt2ski

John is correct on this, as we do get a lot of funnels where the wind can be stronger coming out of a channel and do some damage. I know of many folks that have been doing just fine going north where Jody was, get near where Hood canal hits admirality st, and get knocked down as there will be a gust going twice what it is in the open area.

The back side of bainbridge island from what I understand, can have SW winds go up and over, and on the way down to the water pickup for short periods going off shore to double what is normal.

This makes it a bit tricky around here. I know the wind was shifting on my upwards of 30*. Lulls at one angle, guts shift to starboard and all of a sudden you would be on a reach when on the starboar tack. Over you go! Port tack was almost as bad, as then you were hitting the waves head on, at least on starboard tack you were angled forward to slightly abeam.

I know some of the folks with Moore 24's really got hammered to a degree coming back from the FWB bouy.

ANyway, it was fun to a degree. Fortunetly for me, nothing broke etc etc.

marty

on edit, here is a link to the damage photo's that were taken last saturday at the FWB.


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## smackdaddy

Wow. At the end of this fine day, which gave us quite a melee, what can I say. Well, let me quote some BFS scripture which puts everything into perspective I believe...

From BFS 26:258 (King Jeff Version)



Jeff_H said:


> Even those of us who have sailed for decades have a point at which the hair on the back of our necks stand up and we begin to think that we may have overdone things a bit. The difference between more experienced sailors and newbies is that we have a few more tricks in our repetoir and we also have a better sense of how close we can get to the edge before we fall off, which may also mean that we get closer to the edge and so may actually get slammed more frequently than a sensible newcomer.
> 
> No matter how long we have sailed there is always a learning period everytime we get on a boat that is new to us. I typically try to ramp up slowly, sailing the boat in increasingly heavy conditions, pushing the boat into every higher heel angles to learn at what point the rudder stalls and what the sail plan looks like in high winds upwind vs reaching vs down. I look at how hard it is to reef or furl in a strong breeze and get s sense of how long it takes since there are times when shelter is near that pushing the boat to the last possible moment may mean the difference between no serious drama and getting your head handed to you. It is the step by step experimentation that teaches you how the boat behaves so that there isn't a problem going out on those days when the 'sensible and cautious' say things like "Your a better man than I to go out there on a day like today".
> 
> Jeff


Thanks Jeff. Keep the faith Still.


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## bestfriend

Sorry guys, I got busy at work. That is "Aspect computing" in the 1998 Sydney to Hobart race. 70 knot winds, higher gusts, 54ft boat. Not a comment on anyone's story, just a picture.

Sway, you don't see the tops blowing off because the wind had been blowing so hard for such a long period that it is flattening the waves.

Conditions, demographics, it all matters. Read the books on the race and you will learn a lot about how the sea works when multiple forces, both air and water, combine in in a tight space. Also read Willard Bascom's books on waves. 

As far as first hand experience, there is much to be said about whats underwater and the topography around you. In the Bay here, you can get your ass kicked in 30+ knot winds with basically minor waves, maybe six feet at the very most. The wind can feel like its gonna rip your ears off, and your sails too. Then you can go out the gate in 15-20 knot winds, and the seas can be twice that height, and sometimes it feels safer. A completely different experience and it can even be on the same day!


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## blt2ski

IIRC the 1998 race was the one from hecko that folks write about? I am thinking that boat pictured is the one with I want to say disabled/handicapped folks? I am remembering that pic to a degree from a book I read about the race with the problems. 

Correct me if I am wrong on this.

marty


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## GeorgeB

Pretty incredible photo from Sydney Hobart. I've seen foam streaks develop when the wind is blowing in the high thirties but the significant wave had me confused. It all makes sense now. One of the significant disappoints in life for me was the day I got an accurate anemometer. The winds in S.F. Bay all immediately decreased by at least 10 knots. Now this is all before global warning mind you (hey perhaps my boat is the cause of it? I used to believe the wind reports too, that was until I found out that the weather station for the Bay was atop Mount Livermore on Angel Island. Again significantly higher (and faster) winds than the ones I experienced at sea level.

Big question for all of you. When you are quoting wind speed, are you using apparent or true? Giu's numbers for reefing didn't make sense to me until I converted to True, and then they were about what I experienced when I raced the Areodyne. For what it's worth, I use true wind speed, so you apparent wind guys need to add boat speed to my numbers. There is an equation for calculating wind pressure that is something like as the wind speed doubles, the increase in force is squared. The progression is geometric, not linear. So the increase in force from 20 to 25 knots is the rough equivalent of the difference between 1 and 15 knots of wind speed. That is why it is so difficult for most of us to gauge the wind speed without an instrument. All I know that 20 -25 (26-31 apparent) knots is normally a lot of wind. But the days I've been out in winds in the thirties and then returned to the bay where it was blowing in the mere twenties, it felt positively calm.

O.K., you studs that only go out in gale warnings - fess up, what kind of gear do you break. The repair bill for Fast Forward's broach was $11 grand (30knots true). I have also blown out a main when it was only blowing in the thirties. Usually when things go non-linear, the last thing you break out is a camera so I have precious few photos of Freya in a blow. So after seeing CC's photo, how fast is the wind here? (Hint: the wind was southerly for the Bay (about 253 degrees and blowing strait from the City so assume ten miles of fetch.)


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## artbyjody

From Foul Weather Race.. HG under motor.. stern look...


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## sailaway21

bestfriend said:


> Sorry guys, I got busy at work. That is "Aspect computing" in the 1998 Sydney to Hobart race. 70 knot winds, higher gusts, 54ft boat. Not a comment on anyone's story, just a picture.
> 
> Sway, you don't see the tops blowing off because the wind had been blowing so hard for such a long period that it is flattening the waves.
> 
> Conditions, demographics, it all matters. Read the books on the race and you will learn a lot about how the sea works when multiple forces, both air and water, combine in in a tight space. Also read Willard Bascom's books on waves.
> 
> As far as first hand experience, there is much to be said about whats underwater and the topography around you. In the Bay here, you can get your ass kicked in 30+ knot winds with basically minor waves, maybe six feet at the very most. The wind can feel like its gonna rip your ears off, and your sails too. Then you can go out the gate in 15-20 knot winds, and the seas can be twice that height, and sometimes it feels safer. A completely different experience and it can even be on the same day!


For whatever reason, those do not appear to me to be seas associated with 70 knot winds...in fact, not even close. Now I am referring to open waters with significant fetch and I'm unaware of where the photo was taken and what the actual conditions were at the time of the photo versus worst reported. But rather than just rain on anyone's parade, I've taken the trouble to dig up some NOAA photos as an example of sea state under the Beaufort scale. 70 knots is Force 12 and I think you'll agree that what the NOAA photo shows as Force 12 conditions looks rather different than the photo posted by our bestfriend.

Beaufort Wind Force Scale and Sea State


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## chucklesR

So now it's a big freaking wave thread.

17 Years of sea duty during my 22 in the Navy, deployed or out of port 2/3 of that time.
I've seen some waves and I'm here to tell you the 30 foot jobbers with breaking crests *break* destroyers and frigates and dent the big boys.
We had a med-evac off the USS Will Rogers in 1982 in 30+ waves, 62kts predicated wind, as the radioman on board the boat I got the weather reports so I'm pretty freaking sure of what it was.
Round bottom submarine meets 30+ breakers - free board is more than a sailboat and ballast was pumped up to max it out. We had breaking waves bow to stern so big our 30 foot up conning tower was wetter than the girls shower room and awash in puke and snot. The dive planes, half way up the tower were banging up and down, flexed by the force of the water hitting them. I was in the tower, doing the radio thing with the helicopter.
After 5 tries to extract and 10 minutes from bingo (no return fuel) the skipper made the decision, took the near lifeless body of our crewmate and tossed him off on the outgoing wave, into the arms of those angels of mercy we call rescue swimmers.
Our conning crew took 3 cuts (28 stitches) lost 2 teeth, and one broken arm bouncing around in the steel and teak bathtub, I got lucky and only bruised up. Throughout the crew we took a few more injuries, but I don't remember them all. We were on the surface 45 minutes total time.

Call your Merda De Boi boys, I have no pictures and can't even tell you where we were on what day. I have my memories, and they suffice.

Big waves and big winds are for idiots and the lucky few who get caught and survive.


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## sailingdog

Yeah, but you had the option of ducking under the waves once you get the guy off and med-evaced...  Sailboats don't have that option...


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## chucklesR

sailingdog said:


> Yeah, but you had the option of ducking under the waves once you get the guy off and med-evaced...  Sailboats don't have that option...


Ha, sailboats have that option, it's called sinking. Sinking is easy when the hatches have been ripped off, mast and rigging are ripped apart and become hole making pikes and steel cable saws and bulkheads are buckling inward under 20 ton waves.

The difference is comfort - submarines sink comfortably


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## bubb2

Jody, I don't want to critical about your video. If I was in the cockpit I would NOT clip onto the stern rail. I would find a center point in the cockpit to clip to. If you are cliped on the rail you can go over the side and be pulled along by the boat. If you have a 12 foot beam and 6 foot tether and cliped on the center line you can't go over either side.. 

Also your harness should be on the outside of your jacket. 2 reasons 1) the quick release would be at hand. 2) if you do go over the side that jacket is going to be turned inside out over your face before you can release.


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## sailingdog

LOL... BTW, not all submarines sink comfortably... 


chucklesR said:


> Ha, sailboats have that option, it's called sinking. Sinking is easy when the hatches have been ripped off, mast and rigging are ripped apart and become hole making pikes and steel cable saws and bulkheads are buckling inward under 20 ton waves.
> 
> The difference is comfort - submarines sink comfortably


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## bubb2

chucklesR said:


> The difference is comfort - submarines sink comfortably


Untill they implode, but I guess you never feel that!~!!


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## camaraderie

While the 1998 sydney-hobart race did have winds up to hurricane force, there is nothing associated with that particular photo that says it was taken at the time or place in the race where such winds were happening. To me it looks like 50 or so which is certainly bad enough...but it is simply not crazy enough to be 70 in open water in my opinion.


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## T34C

GeorgeB said:


> O.K., you studs that only go out in gale warnings - fess up, what kind of gear do you break. The repair bill for Fast Forward's broach was $11 grand (30knots true). I have also blown out a main when it was only blowing in the thirties. Usually when things go non-linear, the last thing you break out is a camera so I have precious few photos of Freya in a blow. So after seeing CC's photo, how fast is the wind here? (Hint: the wind was southerly for the Bay (about 253 degrees and blowing strait from the City so assume ten miles of fetch.)


That is the big question. I raced last year over Labor Day weekend in 25-30 knots of wind gusting to 35+. Seas were 8 ft. Ugly, Square, Lake MI piles of chop with a few 10 footers thrown in for good measure. We were sailing with a new 145% genny reefed down to < 100% and the mizzen, doused main. The rest of the boats in our division retired early except for 1. That 1 required the CG to come save his bacon after the mast went by the board. We ended up blowing one of the seams out of the genny and having the cleat for the furling line ripped out of the coaming.

I do like the sea stories everyone is laying out there in this thread (thanks smacky) but, when I hear of joy rides in 30 kts of wind on a boat with wood spars and old sails and no reports of damage it kinda makes ya go, Hmmmmm.


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## smackdaddy

blt - great pictures from the race. I hope Sdog didn't look at how bad that tri got humiliated. Ha! It looks like it was definitely a spanker out there. I'm glad you got yours home in one piece. BTW - is your moniker an homage to Blutarski? That fine specimen of a human being in "Animal House"? I like it.

George - now I'm all confused. I've just been taking the mph readings and dividing them by 1.15 (or multiplying when they make me look tougher). Now you're throwing in all this squared stuff. Ouch. I guess I have to go buy a hummuna-hummuna-meter - or whatever. I'm so confused I can't even guess at the windspeed in your photo - maybe between 10 and 40? As for repair costs - ppphhhhttth. I've invested heavily in the stock market - so I'm currently swimming in cash.

Jody - sweet BFS video dude! I especially like the wine bottle at the helm (nothin' better than a hammered skipper I always say), the brats on the barbie, and the "knockdown" at the end. Great visual effects. I'll have to take it on faith that you had a "stern look" on your face since I couldn't really see much under that balaclava. And, man, don't ya just hate it when you post photo-evidence and people start pointing out (rightly so) all the stuff you're doing wrong. I don't know if you remember - but I got some of that myself in FC. It's great learning from real sailors ain't it!

Sailaway - dude, you are just one uptight contrarian. They give you pictures - and you still go on and on. Jeez.

Chuckles - great story, and great comeback on Sdog. Thanks for your service.

Sdog - did you see blt's photos of the race? Dude, that tri!


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## smackdaddy

T!!!!!!!!! A BFS! A BFS! And even a half-hearted compliment! Truly Shock and Awe, dude. BTW - what exactly are you setting up here? I know the other shoe will drop soon. This just isn't like you.


----------



## artbyjody

bubb2 said:


> Jody, I don't want to critical about your video. If I was in the cockpit I would NOT clip onto the stern rail. I would find a center point in the cockpit to clip to. If you are cliped on the rail you can go over the side and be pulled along by the boat. If you have a 12 foot beam and 6 foot tether and cliped on the center line you can't go over either side..
> 
> Also your harness should be on the outside of your jacket. 2 reasons 1) the quick release would be at hand. 2) if you do go over the side that jacket is going to be turned inside out over your face before you can release.


Normally I would of - however:

Tether: No center place to tie onto center of the cockpit and being kept with the boat is better than nothing. Will probably put some fittings in later to address that.

Lifevest: They are auto pfds and the the jacket was loose fitting. I had the jacket over the pfd so it would not possibly auto inflate due to the amount of water we taking over the side. It has been known to happen.

It was my judgment call based on the conditions - and was acutely aware of what the hazards would be one way or the other  But thanks for pointing it out.


----------



## smackdaddy

Back to the *Photo-Happen Edict*. As so clearly shown here by the likes of Sway and Cam - photos don't really matter anyway. If someone is bent on poo-pooing, they'll just poo-poo - evidence be damned. Just ask Sailhog.

So it seems that what's really required are photos from several angles (both on and off the boat), video (helicopter footage a plus), NOAA charts and reports, a CG swimming angel's eyewitness account and Hallmark card, a repair list with photo evidence of each broken part along with an FMC investigative report, and Photoshopping skils.

If you don't have *all* of these squared away and at the ready when requested by the Sailnet Jedi Council - don't even bother posting your "BFS" because it's nothing but MDB.

What is this anyway - SA?


----------



## smackdaddy

artbyjody said:


> Normally I would of - however:
> 
> Tether: No center place to tie onto center of the cockpit and being kept with the boat is better than nothing. Will probably put some fittings in later to address that.
> 
> Lifevest: They are auto pfds and the the jacket was loose fitting. I had the jacket over the pfd so it would not possibly auto inflate due to the amount of water we taking over the side. It has been known to happen.
> 
> It was my judgment call based on the conditions - and was acutely aware of what the hazards would be one way or the other  But thanks for pointing it out.


I think that went well.


----------



## T34C

smackdaddy said:


> Back to the *Photo-Happen Edict*. As so clearly shown here by the likes of Sway and Cam - photos don't really matter anyway. If someone is bent on poo-pooing, they'll just poo-poo - evidence be damned. Just ask Sailhog.
> 
> So it seems that what's really required are photos from several angles (both on and off the boat), video (helicopter footage a plus), NOAA charts and reports, a CG swimming angel's eyewitness account and Hallmark card, a repair list with photo evidence of each broken part along with an FMC investigative report, and Photoshopping skils.
> 
> If you don't have *all* of these squared away and at the ready when requested by the Sailnet Council - don't even bother posting your "BFS" because it's nothing but MDB.
> 
> What is this anyway - SA?


Nooooo, even fish stories make good listening sometimes.


----------



## CharlieCobra

GeorgeB said:


> Pretty incredible photo from Sydney Hobart. I've seen foam streaks develop when the wind is blowing in the high thirties but the significant wave had me confused. It all makes sense now. One of the significant disappoints in life for me was the day I got an accurate anemometer. The winds in S.F. Bay all immediately decreased by at least 10 knots. Now this is all before global warning mind you (hey perhaps my boat is the cause of it? I used to believe the wind reports too, that was until I found out that the weather station for the Bay was atop Mount Livermore on Angel Island. Again significantly higher (and faster) winds than the ones I experienced at sea level.
> 
> Smith Island's weather tower is about 50' off the water.
> 
> Big question for all of you. When you are quoting wind speed, are you using apparent or true? Giu's numbers for reefing didn't make sense to me until I converted to True, and then they were about what I experienced when I raced the Areodyne. For what it's worth, I use true wind speed, so you apparent wind guys need to add boat speed to my numbers. There is an equation for calculating wind pressure that is something like as the wind speed doubles, the increase in force is squared. The progression is geometric, not linear. So the increase in force from 20 to 25 knots is the rough equivalent of the difference between 1 and 15 knots of wind speed. That is why it is so difficult for most of us to gauge the wind speed without an instrument. All I know that 20 -25 (26-31 apparent) knots is normally a lot of wind. But the days I've been out in winds in the thirties and then returned to the bay where it was blowing in the mere twenties, it felt positively calm.
> 
> O.K., you studs that only go out in gale warnings - fess up, what kind of gear do you break. The repair bill for Fast Forward's broach was $11 grand (30knots true). I have also blown out a main when it was only blowing in the thirties. Usually when things go non-linear, the last thing you break out is a camera so I have precious few photos of Freya in a blow. So after seeing CC's photo, how fast is the wind here? (Hint: the wind was southerly for the Bay (about 253 degrees and blowing strait from the City so assume ten miles of fetch.)
> 
> I blew out a 150% Genny in a 25 knot sail but considering the sail had seen much higher winds on earlier sails, the damage was already done by then. No other damage except the occasional block or other minor stuff. She's a tough old girl.
> 
> [


See the above in your post.


----------



## CharlieCobra

T34C said:


> I do like the sea stories everyone is laying out there in this thread (thanks smacky) but, when I hear of joy rides in 30 kts of wind on a boat with wood spars and old sails and no reports of damage it kinda makes ya go, Hmmmmm.


Ya ever get out here between Oct and May, ya need to come sailing with me. What's wood spars gotta do with it? Ships had wood sticks long before aluminum was thought of and weathered many a storm at sea. If the riggings good, the wind won't break the mast (at least not what we see around here) but a breaking wave surely will. Old sails? See the above.


----------



## smackdaddy

T34C said:


> Nooooo, even fish stories make good listening sometimes.


You can actually hear this stuff? You're starting to sound like Jody.


----------



## T34C

CharlieCobra said:


> Ya ever get out here between Oct and May, ya need to come sailing with me. What's wood spars gotta do with it? Ships had wood sticks long before aluminum was thought of and weathered many a storm at sea. If the riggings good, the wind won't break the mast (at least not what we see around here) but a breaking wave surely will. Old sails? See the above.


...and when they broke, they could go ashore and cut down a new one! There is a reason new boats don't come wth wood spars. Same reason Al is slowly being replaced, and Al doesn't have half the issues of wood.


----------



## T34C

smackdaddy said:


> You can actually hear this stuff? You're starting to sound like Jody.


Nice big lake salmon, you just gotta put your ear real close.


----------



## Giulietta

GeorgeB said:


> O.K., you studs that only go out in gale warnings - fess up, what kind of gear do you break. The repair bill for Fast Forward's broach was $11 grand (30knots true). I have also blown out a main when it was only blowing in the thirties. Usually when things go non-linear, the last thing you break out is a camera so I have precious few photos of Freya in a blow. So after seeing CC's photo, how fast is the wind here? (Hint: the wind was southerly for the Bay (about 253 degrees and blowing strait from the City so assume ten miles of fetch.)


Excellent post..my point exactly....here is what happens when an accidental gybe happens in winds above 25 knots (true), you just can't stop it or be fast enough..lack attention once..you're dead.....granted it was weaker than expected, and got a new one for free from manufacturer...nevertheless $ $$.$$$,$$ new..plus a new main traveller block as the original disappeared..


















my point is..my gear, winches, blocks shrouds etc..is all calculated with at least 50% SWL margin..not one item (except a screwed up Lewmar shackle) has failed so far..true I am carefull with the gear..it can't handle for long the aggressivness of sailing over 40 TRUE (for you George)....it's scary...and my boat is built tough...


----------



## smackdaddy

Holy crap, Giu! That's insane. Just curious - what's the boom material? And what did they change to stiffen it? For me - I certainly don't mind throwing away my life, but definitely don't want to waste my money.


----------



## sailortjk1

Carbon Fiber


----------



## smackdaddy

Giu's evidence as rated on the BFS Scale:


----------



## CharlieCobra

T34C said:


> ...and when they broke, they could go ashore and cut down a new one! There is a reason new boats don't come wth wood spars. Same reason Al is slowly being replaced, and Al doesn't have half the issues of wood.


'Tis true, a little harder to fashion a wood spar these days. My mainmast is 47 years old and has no issues other than needing the varnish stripped, bleached and redone.


----------



## CharlieCobra

George, I missed the question about wind speed during my photo. It was blowing 28 true and was about 34 apparent from the West along with leftover swells from the Strait so wave heights against the ebb were from 8-12'. We had the 150 furled to about 110 and a single reef in the Main while beating. Here's another pic or three:




























We ended up blowing the 150 to shreds later that evening.


----------



## sailaway21

Nice photos, Charlie. Good to see everyone is having fun!


----------



## CharlieCobra

Except for the Grandson in the house getting seasick. He got better once we punched through this and around the corner at Cattle Pass and were able to dress ship a bit. It was a nice spin run to Friday Harbor after that when the wind went Southwesterly on flat water. All in all, a fun but pricey day.


----------



## T34C

Charlie- For the love of God, would you get that guy (your son?) a decent pfd! He looks like a Titanic survivor in that orange thing.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Son in Law. At the time it wouldn't have hurt my feelings for him to take a swim but he's straightened out a bit since then. I'm planning on outfitting the boat with more decent PFD's.


----------



## T34C

Have you considered teathering him to the stern rail?


----------



## smackdaddy

Charlie - great pics! You've got one hardy crew there! Especially the little sweetie with the thousand-yard-stare. Very cool.

I love the sea slobber all over the lens! Definitely not a cheese-and-crackers jaunt. 

Also, I like the "Yo son-in-law, go stand by the boom and I'll snap yer photo, as I loosen this sheet - and free my daughter." You conniving bastard!

Nice sail, man.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Meh, I thought about that and sending him forward to clean up the fenders but I don't think my Daughter would've appreciated it.


----------



## Giulietta

Charlie..I hope the differnces between you and your Son inlaw are solved, for the best of you daughter and your grand kids..nothing is sadder than a broken home...

Now..I run these programs where I straighten kids, by dragging them underwater at 10 knots....

Sending you an application now..


----------



## CharlieCobra

They've been together for 11 years now and he's finally starting to grow up so I think they'll make it. Ten knots? I'd have to go out in a Gale and surf some waves to get ten knots on Oh Joy.


----------



## Giulietta

I measure speed in nails per hour..


----------



## smackdaddy

CharlieCobra said:


> Ten knots? I'd have to go out in a Gale and surf some waves to get ten knots on Oh Joy.


Just don't do it without a film crew and a stenographer.


----------



## Valiente

bestfriend said:


> Sorry guys, I got busy at work. That is "Aspect computing" in the 1998 Sydney to Hobart race. 70 knot winds, higher gusts, 54ft boat. Not a comment on anyone's story, just a picture.


What do I win? A sterling silver garlic press?


----------



## erps

Here's a video off U-tube. The skipper estimated the seas to be 10-20 feet and can be heard doing so on the video. The guy at the helm is sitting. His feet are probably a foot or two above the water. That puts the top of his head 5 to 6 feet above the water. If you watch the horizon in the background, the waves look to be about even with the camera's view. So my estimate of the waves would be closer to 5 or 6 feet in the beginning of the video, maybe 7 when auto is driving. Just so we're comparing apples to apples, does anyone else estimate the waves much lower or higher than that?


----------



## Valiente

Giulietta said:


> Now..I run these programs where I straighten kids, by dragging them underwater at 10 knots....


The problem is that when you tack, they get all bent again.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Ray, those look to be 8-10' at most.


----------



## T34C

I didn't see anything over 10 maybe 6-8 on Ave.


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## Giulietta

You can't really say what size they are, because as the bow rides over the top of the wave, the stern drops, making the coming sail behind look bigger..

That is why filming from a boat is deceiving...


----------



## CharlieCobra

That and the fact that waves always seem to flatten out in pics or vids.


----------



## Giulietta

I was hit by this hughe wave last year, 20 miles off the coast of Portugal, between Sines and Cascais...(+I can't find it now because I am not in my pc)..

It was really freaky..I saw it coming, filmed it and took a photo...

It hit us sideways, on at 90 degrees, took us up then down then almost flipped us over...

When I saw the video and the photo, I couldn't believe it...how small it was!!


----------



## CharlieCobra

Now these are 20'+ seas.






Remember, that's a 65 or 70' yawl.


----------



## GeorgeB

Giu, that's one mangled boom. One of my friends in another C34 twisted off his boom at the gooseneck during an accidental gybe. Everybody at the time said it was because of our mid boom sheeting. Looking at your photo, I'm guessing that end boom sheeting is no guarantee either. Below is a picture from a boat I crewed on for this year's Pacific Cup race to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com







Hawaii</ST1</st1:State>. We had a preventer on when we accidentally gyb'd during a squall late one night (winds were in the low thirties, true). As you can see, we pulled up about six inches of toe rail. The Lewmar snatch block that was attached to it was completely mangled. Ouch. One of our EYC members was racing his 1930's vintage sloop in the 2006 Master Mariner's regatta when his wooden mast shattered. Took over a year to have a new spar made and installed. Since then, his insurance policy will not cover rig damage if the recorded wind speeds exceed 20 knots on the Bay on the day of the claim. Needless to say he is very careful and the boat doesn't get out nearly as much as it used to. 

I have learned long ago never to question the voracity of anybody's sea stories as my dad was a career Navy man. His tin can was in TF 38 when Halsey sailed the fleet into the <ST1South China Sea</ST1 typhoon of '44. At the height of the storm, his captain ordered the entire crew, with the exception of the black gang and bridge crew, down into the lowest spaces on the ship in a desperate move to try to lower the center of gravity. Dad said that other ships in their division ingested enough water down the stacks to quench boiler fires.


----------



## smackdaddy

Gulp. Maybe what I meant was *M*FS.


----------



## CharlieCobra

smackdaddy said:


> Gulp. Maybe what I meant was *M*FS.


Referring to what?


----------



## smackdaddy

*Medium* Freakin' Sails. Those 20 footers are just scary, dude. Guys sail in that crap? Are they insane? I'd be crying like a school girl.

Seriously, I want to move up the food chain with my skills, but that's just off the charts!

PS - George, that's what I call rippin' it!


----------



## CharlieCobra

smack, that was after the storm was calming down and the German rescue boat finally got there. It had been hurricane strength earlier and the yawl suffered a broken Mizzen spreader and some minor injuries. People, myself included, don't go out in THAT stuff on purpose. They get caught in it during a passage. The seas are still confused and angry though the winds have fallen off.

Here's the info on her:

The History of the 12M Yacht


----------



## Giulietta

George, this year, while I was hosting Chuckles, Mary and Becky, (from here at Sailnet), after we rounded the Espichel Cape, the winds were North westely at around 15 knots true..perfect for spi time.I have this 1500sq foot assy, perfect for a relaxed sail..if you keep an eye on it..it's pretty big.

We hoisted a VMG spinnaker and sailed all 40 miles or so with it..we had the wind coming from our 100 to 140 dregrees, and we had those big Atlantic waves (I'd say around 7 to 10 feet), more of a swell than waves, where they are so far appart that it's not a problem..you know...round separated swel, all had a go at steering, we were doing around 12 to 13 knots (altough I think Chuckles may have seen higher.) we all joked around..few learnt a few things, and Chuckles cried like a girl..(just joking he did not)..but it was a nice sail..some times with the swell the boat would roll a little and the foot of the spi woud brush the water ever so gentely..nothing much..

As the end of the afternoon approached, the wind veered to the North (was Northwest) and we're heading South...anyway in Portugal everyday at 4 to 5 pm the wind, as ususal comes from the North pretty strong for 2 hours then stops completely...and raises to 20 gusts of 30....

That meant that in order to keep flying that spi, and keep it as VMG, we would be sailing away, as we would need to turn to port 20 or 30..., we were going away, pretty fast, from our destination, that was ahead to Port...

I spoke with leadhead and Fred, (my son), and we decided , that with a little care and attention we could maintain that spi on, and try to sail DDW with it..well we did for an hour and half...we had the main more sheeted in as to not cover the spi, and the boom kept to port, because the waves were coming from starboard rear side (I don't know the name, sorry) and keeping it there stabilized the boat and would prevent fromm having a gybe at that speed...once or twice the boat would round up..not quite a broach, but would round up...some would freeze in the moment, but soon either me or leadhead would take care of it by releasing some spi..we had a few times the boom touch the water, mostly due to the swell than to the wind..

Anyway...we pushed on....had a few more "hectic" momnets but we had all under control at all times..

The problem is that being an assy without a pole we couldn't sheet it to windward, and with the waves it would flap everynow and then...nothing much..or that bad..just sailing on a thin line of heading...I was at ther helm.


OK, time came to release the spi..by now, as we slowly sailed south we got used to the wind, and were now flying pretty fast...I couldn't hide the spi behind the main because I couldn't sheet it out as it would hit the water...broach is not my dish... because of the of the swell and couldn't turn to windward because would put us sideways with the swell and the boat tried to round up.

So I ordered the tack end released. My spi is on a tack line and I have a quick release shackle (made by Lewmar, but it's a piece if crap), connected to a line that comes along the deck, to the stern..(we call that an emergency brake)...simple, one pulls on it, the tack shackle opens the spi starts flaping and you bring it down easy..

Well I asked MAry to do the honours and open the spi..she pulled and pulled and pulled and nothing..

I sent Leadhead and Becky to the front, hoping Leadhead would remove tension on the tack and Becky could release the shackle..

As they tried pulling....and me truing to veer off to reduce the pull on the shackle..the damn thing exploded CLOSED!!!! IT JAMMED CLOSED!!! 

Leadhead was exhausted, Becky too...

So I called my son Fred, and told him to bring the whole spi halyard to the cockpit and untangle it..on my word GO, Fred would open the clutch, and release the spi..I would shout GO at the same time I would turn to windward, so I could dump the spi inot the water...

So I waited the swell past us, suddenly turned to starboard and shouted Fred to open the clutch...(he actually burnt his hand doing so, but took it like a man)...the spi went behind the main and slowly dropped along side us...(I turned to avoid the spi getting under the boat and rip by the keel)...

Slowly Leadhead and Becky brought the floating spi back to the boat..it just dragged along our side gently..


Now, this could have been a tricky situation, caused by a stupid thing as simple as a shackle, but with the right crew and timing..it's a simple task..not harder than landing a plane...this also offered the added advantage of us being able to cut it lose, shopuld vcrew safety become an issue...

This was a small little incident, not really worth telling..but just to show that the Devil, can shoot even with wet gun powder...

Then we were exactly on the side of Sines, so we entered the harbour full sail, hauling "CULO"..at 12 or so knots boat speed..(I found later and never told Chuck..my GPS has a recorded speed of 15.8 knots for that day), and we have a South to North current in that area.

As we docked..there were a lot of race boats in the marina, they were holding the race because of excessive winds. >30 knots true


Chuckles, Mary..was I accurate?


----------



## CharlieCobra

Even the newest, best gear can screw ya up. Sounds like it was handled nicely without too much drama Alex, much as I would expect from your boat.


----------



## Giulietta

Funny...

I searched sines to see if I could find anything and found THIS

Pretty cool.


----------



## sailingdog

GUI—

Mary did send me a post card from Portugal and mentioned something about a large spinnaker drogue you had invented.


----------



## bestfriend

GeorgeB said:


> Giu, that's one mangled boom. One of my friends in another C34 twisted off his boom at the gooseneck during an accidental gybe. Everybody at the time said it was because of our mid boom sheeting. Looking at your photo, I'm guessing that end boom sheeting is no guarantee either. Below is a picture from a boat I crewed on for this year's Pacific Cup race to <st1:state w:st="[/IMG]Hawaii</ST1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> </st1:state>. We had a preventer on when we accidentally gyb'd during a squall late one night (winds were in the low thirties, true). As you can see, we pulled up about six inches of toe rail. The Lewmar snatch block that was attached to it was completely mangled. Ouch. One of our EYC members was racing his 1930's vintage sloop in the 2006 Master Mariner's regatta when his wooden mast shattered. Took over a year to have a new spar made and installed. Since then, his insurance policy will not cover rig damage if the recorded wind speeds exceed 20 knots on the Bay on the day of the claim. Needless to say he is very careful and the boat doesn't get out nearly as much as it used to.
> 
> I have learned long ago never to question the voracity of anybody's sea stories as my dad was a career Navy man. His tin can was in TF 38 when Halsey sailed the fleet into the <st1>South China Sea</st1> typhoon of '44. At the height of the storm, his captain ordered the entire crew, with the exception of the black gang and bridge crew, down into the lowest spaces on the ship in a desperate move to try to lower the center of gravity. Dad said that other ships in their division ingested enough water down the stacks to quench boiler fires.


George-
EYC and "Freya"! I knew I saw your boat before! I am right there in Alameda, and hope to join EYC in the spring. I hear they have a great youth program and I am a little short in the boat area at the moment. Your previous photo looks like 10-12 knots in the Bay. And you are right about the wind readings. I use them as a general guideline.

Sway - I don't remember the exact explanation of the storm that hit in Bass Strait, would have to read the books again. But it made pretty good sense and part of the explanation was about how the waves got flattened for the most part, but major breakers would pop up out of nowhere due to the convergence of multiple systems. "Fatal Storm" was one of the better books.

Not my story, not my photo, not my type of BS, I'm done here.


----------



## painkiller

Giulietta said:


> I have this 1500sq foot assy,


How do you fit through the door with that thing?


----------



## smackdaddy

Giu - man, I wish I was half the sailor Fred is. Honestly. Great spi story. BTW - my uncle owns Lewmar. I've sent him your story and will definitely give him an earful. Crappy shackles. I just hope no drinks were spilled! I'm sure I can at least swing you some free mounting screws out of the deal (he hates me by the way).

BF and George - our company just scored a gig in Alameda so I'll be happy to come break stuff on your boats in the next few months - if you need some hopeless, wisecracking crew that is!

Me? I just got back from a nice evening sail with the family. We had a steady 15 or so, with gusts up to 22 (at least according to the weather station on the lake). Great sail. Of course, at this point, I don't have a clue what knots really are any more - so though it might have been apparent, it felt very true to me.

BFS rating:

What it felt like-









What it probably was-









So - to end the day, here's the question: For you guys that have sailed long and hard your whole lives (racers and/or cruisers), what is that line where it goes from hard-but-fun to just-too-scary? Is it 40 with 10'? Is it Force 8?

I ask because looking at those 20 footers in Charlie's video just scared the hell out of me. So what's that edge?


----------



## smackdaddy

PAIN? Aliiiiiiiiiiive! It is aliiiiiiiiive! Welcome back you crazy wacko! Man, how the was the slammer? Is Cam as sadistic as they say?

You were missed, my man. However, it gave us plenty of time watch, re-watch, and then frame-by-frame that BFS video of yours. Just insane. I actually thought that was why you pulled back a bit. Just to recover.

Now how about those new lyrics for the "Gilligan's Island" theme?

BTW - you'll notice I changed my membership "rating" in solidarity with you.


----------



## blt2ski

Lots o things happen in this thread when one is on the road with no puter!

daddy, no my handle has NOTHING to do with bluto in animal house. It has to do with my other past time, ie "built too ski" as in snow ski, where I am a lev 3 instructor, training director of ski school, and a lev 1 examiner. with 30 yrs behind me teaching. 

Now that I have read about 4 pages beyond that question, I really do not remember thankfully what else I was going to type right now.

Marty


----------



## Valiente

Giulietta said:


> Chuckles, Mary..was I accurate?


Alex, the phrase you need is "stern quarters", which is sometimes "port quarter" or "starboard quarter" because it is usually not necessary to indicate what end of the boat you mean...

This story is more detailed than what Becky told me. Becky said this summer: "Do we have any Lewmar deck gear?"

I said "no, it's all Andersen winches, Spinlock clutches and Garhauer blocks and a Harken traveller, with a Profurl drum and Atkins and Hoyle hatches. The old boat has Gibb and Wichard shackles and Ronstan and Gibb blocks, Barlow winches and an Easyblock purchase on the mainsheet." Then I thought for a minute and said: "You know, not having any Lewmar on either boat is a little funny."

My sailor wife replied "No, it isn't..."  Then she told me that Lewmar makes such a great shackle that it never opens!


----------



## GeorgeB

Giu - Ahh, the windward take-down, a beauty to behold. Now, you guys on the far side of the pond do things a bit differently and do you mind a question or two? Am I to understand that your tack is fixed to the bow and the trip line releases the shackle? How do you tighten the luff? Halyard tension? Do you band the sail for launching or do you deploy it right out of the bag? I noticed that you have some black "V's" in the leading edge - how are they used? And finally, it looks like you have some sort of pendant line attached to the clew and the sheets attached to it - how does that help the trim? 

I've had bad luck with those piston snap shackles too. Either with them not releasing under any kind of load or they releasing too easily. The Pac Cup boat had trigger style one really nice, but unfortunately, no way you can rig a trip line. But they do trip under any kind of a load with the help of a big fid. 

Bestfriend - Yes, that's me, guilty as charged. EYC is a great club and the junior program is superb with many of the juniors going on to race at the collegian level and beyond. It's a great club for kids. Hope to see you there real soon. Actually, the winds in that photo were in the low-twenties, but the Bay was in flood so the chop isn't very high. We were doing GGYC's Blackaller-Harding-Ft Mason course and sailed into increasing winds as we reached towards the city. You can see in the photo, we had the traveler all the way down but we still didn't have much of a steering groove. We didn't want to reef because we needed as much sail as possible for the beat between Ft. Mason so we tried putting a wrap on the jib furler. Something I don't think I'd do again as it gave us lousy sail shape and a lousy photo to boot.


----------



## painkiller

smackdaddy said:


> PAIN? Aliiiiiiiiiiive! It is aliiiiiiiiive! Welcome back you crazy wacko! Man, how the was the slammer? Is Cam as sadistic as they say?
> 
> You were missed, my man. However, it gave us plenty of time watch, re-watch, and then frame-by-frame that BFS video of yours. Just insane. I actually thought that was why you pulled back a bit. Just to recover.
> 
> Now how about those new lyrics for the "Gilligan's Island" theme?
> 
> BTW - you'll notice I changed my membership "rating" in solidarity with you.


You know, I spent this week of confinement in quiet solitude, reflecting on my true nature and really digging deep into who I am and who I should be. Some deep soul-searching, you know? And I realized....I'M EVEN MORE PERFECT THAN I THOUGHT I WAS!!! I truly am awesome. Talk about an eye-opener.


----------



## T34C

You think it is an eye opener for YOU!


----------



## CharlieCobra

smackdaddy said:


> So - to end the day, here's the question: For you guys that have sailed long and hard your whole lives (racers and/or cruisers), what is that line where it goes from hard-but-fun to just-too-scary? Is it 40 with 10'? Is it Force 8?
> 
> I ask because looking at those 20 footers in Charlie's video just scared the hell out of me. So what's that edge?


It depends on the boat. If on the V-21 it would be anything North of 30 knots. On Oh Joy, anything above 50 in the Sound. On the Pacific? I don't know yet as I haven't taken either boat out of the Sound yet.

Smack, the difference between a nautical mile and a standard mile is this:

Mile = 5280 feet
NM = 6000 feet


----------



## painkiller

T34C said:


> You think it is an eye opener for YOU!


 Heh heh heh


----------



## smackdaddy

blt2ski said:


> Lots o things happen in this thread when one is on the road with no puter!
> 
> daddy, no my handle has NOTHING to do with bluto in animal house. It has to do with my other past time, ie "built too ski" as in snow ski, where I am a lev 3 instructor, training director of ski school, and a lev 1 examiner. with 30 yrs behind me teaching.
> 
> Now that I have read about 4 pages beyond that question, I really do not remember thankfully what else I was going to type right now.
> 
> Marty


Bluto - Yeah, a lot can happen with BFS in a day or two. What you see on the last several pages is what I like to call the Force-11-Gust-APPARENT. We'll be sailing along happily snacking on muenster and saltines in a nice 20 kt stiff and 6-8' nicely spaced swells, then all hell breaks loose as the air and sea suddenly explode. People are screaming, lines are flying, and we're suddenly over at 80 degrees under a 25' cresting mofo. But, it's only apparent, not true, because everyone's cursing, calling BS on wind speeds and heel angle and forgetting to take pictures. It can get quite exciting. Then after what seems like an eternity, we slowly right ourselves, pull the chute out of the water, and get back to our soggy saltines, cheese and rotgut - while George, Charlie and Giu start fixing stuff. Then, after about twenty minutes of being underway, we suddenly realize that Jody's being dragged behind the boat, tethered to the stern rail. Giu decides to make a video on the proper "human drogue" technique - then we finally pull him back on board and give him some wine. You know - that kind of thing. It's what BFS is all about.

BTW - Skiing. That was my second guess. I was a weekend instructor for a season while in college a few years ago - then moved to CO and basically lived at A-Basin for a couple of years. I'd say between sailing and skiing, you definitely have your priorities straight, dude. What's your resort?


----------



## smackdaddy

CharlieCobra said:


> Smack, the difference between a nautical mile and a standard mile is this:
> 
> Mile = 5280 feet
> NM = 6000 feet


Then I should be multiplying by 1.14 not 1.15 - what an idiot! Do you realize that all my windspeed calculations in Sailnet have been BS! I've obviously been sailing in much higher winds than estimated. Well chalk it up to modesty - instead of stupidity. Thanks for not calling me out guys. See newbies - they give you all kinds of slack around here! So - to clarify, last night was actually a steady 15.213443 kts - not 15.

Actually, I did discover another way to embarrass myself last night. We got hit with a pretty heavy sustained gust with all the canvass up on a beam reach. We went over to maybe 40 degrees (the rail was actually wet on this one, Charlie, first time) and I tried to round up a bit to dump some wind. We did a very nice "unintentional" tack with a lot of speed. It was actually a lot of fun - and beat the hell out of doing an accidental jibe. The Admiral asked me if I actually tacked or just lost control. What do you think I told her? Heh-heh.


----------



## smackdaddy

Thanks Charlie for weighing in on the question about that "line". 30 for smaller boats, 50 for bigger-heavier - in somewhat sheltered waters.

What say you others? Especially those that cruise/race open water. I'm not asking the question for bravado's sake - I'm just looking for various opinions on what draws that line. It would help me, and other newbies I think, put some of this discussion in context - and help set some realistic limits in what constitutes a big sail versus a deathwish.


----------



## CharlieCobra

smackdaddy said:


> Then I should be multiplying by 1.14 not 1.15 - what an idiot! Do you realize that all my windspeed calculations in Sailnet have been BS! I've obviously been sailing in much higher winds than estimated. Well chalk it up to modesty - instead of stupidity. Thanks for not calling me out guys. See newbies - they give you all kinds of slack around here! So - to clarify, last night was actually a steady 15.213443 kts - not 15.
> 
> Actually, I did discover another way to embarrass myself last night. We got hit with a pretty heavy sustained gust with all the canvass up on a beam reach. We went over to maybe 40 degrees (the rail was actually wet on this one, Charlie, first time) and I tried to round up a bit to dump some wind. We did a very nice "unintentional" tack with a lot of speed. It was actually a lot of fun - and beat the hell out of doing an accidental jibe. The Admiral asked me if I actually tacked or just lost control. What do you think I told her? Heh-heh.


I've had that happen on my little boat when I went too hard over. You'd be better off sheeting out to the point of luffing slightly and letting the boat stand up.


----------



## T34C

smackdaddy said:


> Thanks Charlie for weighing in on the question about that "line". 30 for smaller boats, 50 for bigger-heavier - in somewhat sheltered waters.
> 
> What say you others? Especially those that cruise/race open water. I'm not asking the question for bravado's sake - I'm just looking for various opinions on what draws that line. It would help me, and other newbies I think, put some of this discussion in context - and help set some realistic limits in what constitutes a big sail versus a deathwish.


NOt to add too much grey area to the mix, but it will depend alot on what kind of waters you are sailing on and if you are prepared for the weather. If you're ready for it, i'd say it sets in around 40. If you're not ready and just get hit by one of the squalls that like to pop up around here, it could be less.


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey Still - did you get out yesterday? How was it?


----------



## Giulietta

Look, honestely..I don't care what any one else says..call me chicken, or whatever you want..I call it being realistic.

If it's blowing more than 35 for a while, I don't go out...(if I had to do it to escape the invasion od the one legged Spanish woman, yes I would, but would motor)...

Above 35 (because it will gust to 40 or more),sailing is no fun anymore, it's just breaking the gear, stress the boat, and nothing to be proud of, or bragging...want to brag, do 12 knots in 18 of true..that's a reason to brag...

I set my limit at 30 to 35..period...

Now..If I am caught in over 40, I will bring the sails down and motor home, or wherever I go..

Off course, racing and with a proper crew, sailing above 35 can be pretty cool...and is nice...buty when do I have 11 monkeys on board?? only a few times.


----------



## chucklesR

So 10.3kts through the water in 16kts true is nothing to brag about?

Damn, I thought I had a pretty good day, now I can't brag 

Call the merda de boi boys, I have no pictures as I was sort of busy at the moment.
I do have pictures of a Gemini speed log at 18 kts if you'd like to see 'em - but the wind was over 30 then and ANYONE can do that (except you mono hull weenies).

Why heel at 40 degrees when instead you can go faster


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay Chuckles - you multi-hulled smack talker. You obviously didn't see the spanking this one took in Marty's race:

*Ouch!*


----------



## chucklesR

Smacky,
Giu's point precisely, white knuckle sailing breaks gear. 
Besides, many more beat up mono's in there.

In, to my mind, trimaran's are not multi hulls, they have one hull, two ama's , or if you prefer, three ama's showing me a broken racing version means smack little to me.


----------



## smackdaddy

Just ribbin' you Chuckles. It's just been so long since we've had a good dust up around here.


----------



## T34C

chucklesR said:


> Smacky,
> Giu's point precisely, white knuckle sailing breaks gear.
> Besides, many more beat up mono's in there.
> 
> In, to my mind, trimaran's are not multi hulls, they have one hull, two ama's , or if you prefer, three ama's showing me a broken racing version means smack little to me.


Chuckles- is right, but I bet there is a higher percentage of multi's or tri-tobe-boats with significant damage. More monos in the race is always going to mean more monos with damage.


----------



## painkiller

I was caught out in a Chesapeake thunderstorm this summer on a friend's 31 footer. Sustained winds were in the low 40 knots. It was definitely not fun and we even had the sails down and the motor on. The wind blew the rain so hard it hurt, you could only look down at your feet. I had to put sunglasses on just to see ahead. The skipper said that if the wind had been 5 knots more, he doesn't think he would've been able to make any way under power.

There were some boats that had sails up and they suffered. Ripped sails, halyards disconnected and trailing far behind the boat, etc.

This was a squall and came on pretty suddenly, so that had a lot to do with the disarray of other boats, I think. But I definitely wouldn't choose to go out in 40 knots.

It was definitely a learning experience and I'd be better prepared next time and less likely to let the noise rattle me as it did. But I didn't think it was fun.


----------



## genieskip

smackdaddy said:


> Thanks Charlie for weighing in on the question about that "line". 30 for smaller boats, 50 for bigger-heavier - in somewhat sheltered waters.
> 
> What say you others? Especially those that cruise/race open water. I'm not asking the question for bravado's sake - I'm just looking for various opinions on what draws that line. It would help me, and other newbies I think, put some of this discussion in context - and help set some realistic limits in what constitutes a big sail versus a deathwish.


That cannot really be answered with a number. I would feel uneasy on a poorly maintained light and small boat with a green crew in anything over 20 knots while I have felt safe (if not comfortable) in 40+ knots on a superbly maintained and rigged 54 foot racer in the middle of the Atlantic ocean. It helped that the boat was manned by a very seasoned offshore crew with lots of transatlantic/bermuda etc experience.

Most of my BFS experiences have involved spinnakers. Anthropologists say that the scarier something is, the more names there are for it. Africans have many names for lions and eskimos have many for snow. A main is a main and a jib is a jib or a genoa. A spinnaker is a spinnaker or a chute or a bag or a kite or a parachute - and there are probably other nicknames I haven't heard.

The most "entertaining" episodes I've experienced have been at night, so pictures were out of the question and anyhow everyone was too busy to take one. The tales don't really fit in here because, as someone said earlier in the thread, racers do push the envelope. I do know that I am much more careful now that I'm some 30 or 40 more years away from those days and considering the fact that I now have to replace the busted gear out of my own pocket.


----------



## smackdaddy

Genie - welcome! And great point about the various names for the spinnaker - aka..."asymmetrical investment", "hood ornament" or my favorite "mistake". Are you an anthropologist (social or other)? 

And, hey, your tales fit in here just as much as anyone else's - racer or cruiser. Doesn't matter at all. This isn't an exclusive club, dude - though some wanted to make it that at some point. It's kind of like the UN of big sailing. As pointed out then, it's purely about pushing limits. So how about one of those BFS's?

Good to have you.


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - let's set some more general parameters to focus in a bit...

Boats in the 30'-40' range, typically crewed by 2-3. Essentially, what most 12-Pack-Trevors are sailing around out there. And racing counts - with the understood caveat that racing dictates less attention to comfort issues...

That said, it sounds like we're coming to a general consensus that, as far as windspeed goes, 35+/- (or Force 7) is the line at which it goes from a difficult-but-"fun" challenge, to a hope-I-get-home-in-one-piece prayfest.

For those of you that sail it, does open ocean change this equation due to sea state - or does this generally stand? 

T's also right in saying there's a lot of grey area here (and I don't think he was talking about Cam's head). So I know this too is a loaded question because you can't run to shore when it gets nasty - but we're just trying to establish a general, realistic rule-of-thumb here based on sailors' experiences....

And to basically say - what in the hell were you guys thinking letting me go out on my little Ike sail - I could have been freaking killed!!!!


----------



## camaraderie

There's a sailor off California complaining about how difficult it is in 25k winds, broken windvane and saltwater contaminated tanks. Not bad for less than a week at sea!

"Either way, Chuck Norris has been steering the boat all night, which is a huge relief, as the wind has been howling 25 knots and seas are huge. It is currently cold, rainy, overcast, and very very windy. At least three huge waves broadsided the boat and broke OVER the cockpit last night. I was only in the cockpit for one of them. The cold huge mass of water struck totally suprising me. Luckily I had a strong footing and my leg secured my in place and I was only slammed into the side of the cockpit. (It was dark and I couldn't see the huge wave coming for me)"
Welcome to the Open Blue Horizon | Open Blue Horizon | Boat,


----------



## smackdaddy

I thought he had bad hips from all that Tae-Kwon-Fu stuff he did in "Walker: Texas Ranger". You gotta give it to a washed-up action star with titanium in his torso who just wants to live the dream. BTW - his leg was secured in place because when the joints get too cold from seawater the legs straighten out into a tripod (counting the tiller of course).

BTW - I like "crying" better - but I understand the call of ambassador-ship.


----------



## CharlieCobra

I can see that. If you're used to Bay sailing in 25 kts and suddenly are faced with the same wind speed on the ocean where the fetch can be 4000+ miles, yeah the waves would seem huge. Ya figure 4-6' wind waves on top of 8-10' swells, you do the math.


----------



## farmboy

SmackD,

On skiing: Snowbird, Utah when out west. Jay Peak, Vermont when in the east


----------



## smackdaddy

Honestly, Cam. I'm looking through his website - and this guy has quite a story. And no one can say he ain't got follow through (i.e. - cajones). Fair winds RJ. Go, man, go!

Definitely BFS.


----------



## Giulietta

Here Samck....

Something for you to cream on your panties....my boat's sister...



















and this bellow...you need to be a good boy to hear the story....


----------



## CharlieCobra

Ouch! That got in somebody's pocket.


----------



## T34C

Giulietta said:


> Here Samck....
> 
> Something for you to cream on your panties....my boat's sister...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and this bellow...you need to be a good boy to hear the story....


AAaaaa, I know, I know, I know!!!!!!


----------



## Giulietta

eheheh T.do you remember?? that was posted when we met!!! 

I wonder where it is..can't find it..


----------



## T34C

You told me part of the stroy off-line after I did some "inspection".


----------



## smackdaddy

I'd say Giulietta's sister was a little tramp, dude. Coming back home with runs in her stockings, hair completely wacked, no underthings, and mascara running down her face. What a hangover. Shameful.

Okay - if you tell me it was a 40 kt squall I'm gonna roll my eyes. In the mean time, I'll be as good as I can be (though I don't really know what that means). My guess is that they had too many damn crewman running all over the decks. I mean you single hand yours, dude! Boy could you teach them a thing or two. Have they watched your videos?


----------



## chucklesR

Two weeks after taking delivery of our 2007 Gemini (33.t ft catamaran) my wife and I got caught in a 36 knt (max I saw, but my attention was not on the gauge) squall, .5 miles from home.
We had just left our dock so we were motoring. I turned into the wind, told her to put on a PFD and did the same. It was hard to hold it into the wind despite twin rudders and a steerable drive. I powered down to 2000 rpm because I really didn't want to make way, just point in. I was in both thin and narrow water (mouth of the creek).

I'm lucky, I have a serious pilot house built in (picture from better days below). I've been out and about in hurricanes - no way in heck I'm sailing in one of those things, especially in weebee wobble special (mono hole in the water).








and just for the doubters:








And that's with Air conditioning, 3 cabins, queen sized beds (sheets from home), 10000 pounds and 400 square feet of living space in a normal sized slip.
White knuckles are for pale people


----------



## chucklesR

Man, you can tell I'm a geek, on the 'dashboard' are two cell phones, a pack of cig's and you can just see a brown sliver that is my tervis style cup holding a Rum and Coke sitting on the step in front of me under the throttle and windlass switch.
My wife took the picture, that's her cushion behind me.

No wind (flat water for the bay), Screacher sheet(red fleck), jib (black fleck)and screacher (green fleck) furling lines neatly coiled behind me on life line, throttle all the way forward, chartplotter showing a movie (maybe) and Otto on the watch.

White knuckles? I don't think so. Not with a suntan like that.


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey, man - if it helps pull down that kind of speed, I'm gonna get that haircut too!

And white knuckles just remind you you're alive, Tanman!

BTW - what's a weeble?


----------



## chucklesR

webbles wobble but they don't fall down

at least in the old commercial

That's a solar panel, not a haircut.


----------



## sailortjk1

Chuckles,
What kind of boat has a dash board?
I've never heard of that before, must be a cat thing.


----------



## painkiller

Is that a Lev-O-Gauge above your door??????? Is it there for nostalgia?


----------



## T34C

chuckles- What is the draft of that thing?

Mine will shows speeds like that too. (When I hold the hose next to the wheel while washing it.)


----------



## sailortjk1

Does your boat also have a windshield?


----------



## T34C

sailortjk1 said:


> Does your boat also have a windshield?


With wipers and a defroster!


----------



## chucklesR

Draft is 18 inches with Rudders and Center boards up, one asymmetrical board (a pie shape, curved depending on which hull) in each hull, with Rudder down, about 30 inches - they pop up. With boards fully down 5.5 feet. I can motor in 20 inches (drive leg down, rudders up) and sail in 18 inches (rudders and boards up). The rudders do steer the boat when up with about e sq feet of submerged surface area, and the motor steers 30 degrees left and right with the rudders. Boards are raised/lowered with a winch handle, takes about 10 seconds, 1.5 turns of the handle up, 1.5 turns down.

I single hand with both down, lose about .5 kts, but easier.

I make about 3 degrees to leeward at 10 knts - measured, not guessed, and yes, I know how to calculate it (drag a string, shoot a compass).

I can make 35 degrees off the wind with the screacher pulled (the tack is on a curved track on the bow) to leeward - typically at about 2/3 of wind speed, measured, not guessed (4kts in 6 kts last time I checked).
Jib's good to 45 degrees off wind, and I don't need to back the jib on a tack unless it's light air.

Yes, it has a windshield. I can stand at the helm and see 90% of what's around me.

No - saltwater and wipers are stupid, you just get smears. I have had water over the bow and up and over the pilot house - nasty chop and PB wakes suck on the bay.
Here I'm pulling into the boat ramp at Cape St Claire, depth 3 feet, step son on the bow - the week I bought it last year. Deep Creek Restaurant in the background. My slip is 100 feet away, 300 feet to the left of the restaurant in the picture - same side of the creek.
I live two blocks from the boat ramp, opposite side of the creek from my slip







I really kind of like it. Check it out at this years boat show, Gemini 105Mc by Performance Cruising Inc, tell 'em hull 987 sent you 

Afterwards, PM me, we'll go sailing on Columbus day (next monday) I'm off and the looking for crew. PM me if interested.


----------



## chucklesR

painkiller said:


> Is that a Lev-O-Gauge above your door??????? Is it there for nostalgia?


It's my own install.
It's there for the 'eek factor' or pucker factor.

Builder recommended limit is 7 degrees heel. 
It does heel, it's a skinny cat at 14 feet beam.

At about 18 degrees a hull is flying, at 80+ it's going over unless you seriously paid off the right deity.

For nostalgia I have a brass hat hanger and bottle opener shaped like an anchor. For sanity, I have a lev-o-gauge.


----------



## genieskip

smackdaddy said:


> Genie - welcome! And great point about the various names for the spinnaker - aka..."asymmetrical investment", "hood ornament" or my favorite "mistake". Are you an anthropologist (social or other)?
> 
> And, hey, your tales fit in here just as much as anyone else's - racer or cruiser. Doesn't matter at all. This isn't an exclusive club, dude - though some wanted to make it that at some point. It's kind of like the UN of big sailing. As pointed out then, it's purely about pushing limits. So how about one of those BFS's?
> 
> Good to have you.


No, I am not an anthropologist - though I've read on the subject - I'm just a broken down, old sailing ex-sculptor.

It doesn't take much encouragement to get the sea stories started.

You might be interested in seeing my blog from the 2005 Transatlantic race. Some of you might have seen the Discovery channel documentary about that race, with Gary Jobson as the director/narrator. I was on the Staad Amsterdam with him - a 250 ft square rigged three masted ship - and I must say that for someone used to sailing fore and aft rigged, small (by comparison) boats it was a heck of a trip. Unfortunately my camera was not working and I didn't know it so I have no picture of my own on the site and only have a few photos supplied by the ship's staff and the official race photographer. Still, I think it's an interesting read (of course I would, I wrote it). Go to Claudiomarzollo.com and click on the Transatlantic race link.

Back to BFS. Back in the sixties there was a race held on Long Island Sound that was run in late October and although it had a formal name, which I now forget, it was generally referred to as "the Gearbuster", with good reason. I never sailed that race without breaking something. Those late Oct winds are usually quite different from the August calms of the area. It was a late evening start at the western end of the sound and went to the Stratford Shoals lighthouse and back. By the time it got dark (moonless, of course) the wind had picked up as we sailed along the Connecticut shore in a SW wind. We were racing, so we kept the chute up and never saw the squall till it hit us.

I have no idea how hard it blew since when it hit it not only knocked us down but also somehow managed to impale the head of the chute over the top of the mast, thus removing our anemometer and all the antennas. With the chute thusly impaled it was impossible to bring it down or muzzle it (this was in the era before spinnaker socks, though a sock would have been above the impaling mast, making it useless). We let go the spinnaker guy and by pulling the sheet in were able to bring the sail somewhat into the lee of the main. The runaway spinnaker was still seriously heeling us but refusing to disintergrate and the Connecticut shore was getting closer and closer. The possibility of starting the engine was never seriously discussed (we were racing and fully intended to finish the race, no DNF allowed) and anyway with that much sail up and the puny two bladed fixed props raceboats had in those days I doubt it would have done any good.

Next thing I know - I have a stupid habit of volunteering at the wrong time - I'm in the boatsun chair going up the mast with my trusty knife. It was actually pretty easy at the beginning because as long as I was between the forward and after lower shrouds I was able to simply walk up the mast due to the extreme angle of heel. The upper part of the mast was harder but I had a line going down from me to the deck so that if I lost the grip on the mast my belayer would be able to keep me from either going into the water or banging into the mast. Once I got to the masthead the tricky part was making sure I was cutting the spinnaker and not the halyard I was on. I never did get close to the water while up there so I guess the salty liquid in my seaboots must have come from a different source.

Now, I know the safety police are going to be all over this one. What were we doing carrying a big spinnaker in those conditions, why was I even allowed to go up a mast in the dark while the boat was bouncing like a bucking bronco, why was no one wearing pfd's or harnesses - oh, did I forget to mention that? I was young and stupid and like all young men, I felt immortal. I didn't even realize the biggest danger was not the obvious one of getting loose from the mast and bouncing around, the biggest danger was 
that the shaking of the loose chute and my added weight aloft would tear the shrouds, headstay or backstay out of the boat or cause a fitting to fail, toppling the rig, along with me, over the side.

Obviously that didn't happen, or I wouldn't be telling the tale. Am I happier with more modern safety procedures? Of course. On my boat now I carry state of the art inflatable pfd's and harnesses, rig jacklines and sail much, much more conservatively, since I'm not racing. Everyone uses the gear at night or when it blows, though I don't make wearing it mandatory in gentler conditions. And I'll probably be a scofflaw when pfd's are required at all times, as they are now on many races.

I should look back at that incident with horror, thankful the worst case scenario didn't play out, I would certainly be horrified if one of my grown sons did something like it, I'm glad my parents never heard about it (I was single at the time).

yet.....

More than forty years later I remember it vividly, and still feel a thrill in the memory and until I lose all memory I will never forget it. Was it worth the risk? Probably not. I certainly wouldn't trade the last 40+ years of my life for the memory, but I'm still glad I have it. There is a certain guilty pleasure in that.


----------



## Stillraining

genieskip said:


> Now, I know the safety police are going to be all over this one.


Probably ....but if you dont have any pictures from up there... then it never happened though and you'll be OK.........


----------



## genieskip

Stillraining said:


> Probably ....but if you dont have any pictures from up there... then it never happened though and you'll be OK.........


It was dark - and flash pictures are not allowed on boats at night. Kills the night vision.


----------



## smackdaddy

Genie - holy crap. That was one fine BFS, dude. Photos be damned, you had urine in your boots, man! What do these Visigoths expect? Apart from throwing down a great freakin' story - I just want to thank you for saving us from the trimaran lovefest. I was dyin' here. And don't worry, the safety police will be along shortly, I'm sure. At which time you can just dump the contents of your seaboots on them for all I care. I'll look into that 2005 TA race. I'd love to see the doc. Now, something tells me that since you've been sailing since the world was flat you probably have more. So keep 'em coming!

Still!!! Welcome back, man! I'm tellin' ya, screw the photo-edict! That's ancient history, dude! Did you go out in the stuff yesterday? How was it?


----------



## smackdaddy

Chuckles - unlike Charlie I notice that you chose to forego the pfd for your step son. Anything we should read into that? Oh wait - pfds are only needed on boats where _danger_ happens - that's right. My bad.

Hey, anyone know the formula for calculating how big waves can get in a 50 knot blow and 18" of water? Heh-heh.

PS - Chuckles, I'm telling PB you said his wakes suck.


----------



## sailaway21

CharlieCobra said:


> It depends on the boat. If on the V-21 it would be anything North of 30 knots. On Oh Joy, anything above 50 in the Sound. On the Pacific? I don't know yet as I haven't taken either boat out of the Sound yet.
> 
> Smack, the difference between a nautical mile and a standard mile is this:
> 
> Mile = 5280 feet
> NM = 6000 feet


A nautical mile is 6076 feet.


----------



## chucklesR

smackdaddy said:


> Chuckles - unlike Charlie I notice that you chose to forego the pfd for your step son. Anything we should read into that? Oh wait - pfds are only needed on boats where _danger_ happens - that's right. My bad.
> 
> Hey, anyone know the formula for calculating how big waves can get in a 50 knot blow and 18" of water? Heh-heh.
> 
> PS - Chuckles, I'm telling PB you said his wakes suck.


PFD's while docking in 3 feet of water, no breeze, no waves?

Do you get the BFS mentality or not?


----------



## T34C

*I never did get close to the water while up there so I guess the salty liquid in my seaboots must have come from a different source.*

Safety police be damned, who tastes the liquid in their seaboots!!!!


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## blt2ski

I have to say, it is nice to not have a puter at work, I;d get nothing done! Oh well...........

what question was I supposed to answer?!?!? oh yeah, where I ski? At what I call "sno crummy" or snoqualmie pass. Home of the cascade big flake, or concrete or what ever you call the snow we get here. But if you learn to ski at Alpental, as I did, the feeling is, you can ski anywhere! Ie the area's at the top of I90 in the washington cascades. ALtho I have skied other area's around here. All have goods and bads about them. But as they saying goes, "a bad day sking/sailing is better than the best day at work!"

Then again, around here you can go south by 5 hrs, and ski at Hood all yr! Batchlor in the spring is fun, ski from 7am to about 1pm, head down the hill and hit one of the 20-30 gold courses in Bend for an afternoon round. Can do the same thing at Hood, or head to Hood River and do some sailboarding in 30-40 knot winds on the columbia.......what a place to live!

ANyway, need to figure out how to stop some accidental storm I cause asking some question to a couple of folks ont eh dock sunday. I am sure it will straighten itself out.

marty


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## smackdaddy

chucklesR said:


> PFD's while docking in 3 feet of water, no breeze, no waves?
> 
> Do you get the BFS mentality or not?


Yeah - my bad. I just noticed you were safely tethered to a cupholder in your...ahm....what do you call that thing....ahm....not a cockpit....ahm....oh, holideck. So naturally I assumed you'd be also watching out for the safety of your crew/family members.


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## smackdaddy

sailaway21 said:


> A nautical mile is 6076 feet.


Sway,

Fine post. But you're wrong again. Siggghhhh.

*6,076.1155*

You really need to study more.

Best regards,

Deadlight


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## smackdaddy

Marty,

Very cool. I've skied both Hood and Bachelor. The latter at a racing camp several years ago in early SUMMER (sweet) and the former in a heavy wind in January when I lived in Oregon. And I have to say, I've skied many times in -10 to -25 in CO and have never, ever been as cold as I was on Hood when it was maybe +20. Is it the moisture in the air? How do you guys stand that, dude? Ouch. Still, it was great skiing - and serves as the perfect balance to being out on the water, I think. I never did do any sailboarding on the Columbia, but did quite a bit of hang gliding down by Seaside. Good times.

Now, back to BFS, make sure to take your camera to the dock when you go "straighten out" those chuckleheads. Broken noses are as much a part of BFS as a broken boom, my good man! And them's good photos.

Smack!


----------



## smackdaddy

farmboy said:


> SmackD,
> 
> On skiing: Snowbird, Utah when out west. Jay Peak, Vermont when in the east


Right on Farmboy. I've not skied either. I would assume Snowbird is gnarlier though? I like crazy steep and/or wicked bumpy - like A-Basin.


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## Bene505

bestfriend said:


> ...Hmm, the in between time? The in between time is the time you should be making your move. The calm time is when you should be reading your charts, studying the weather patterns, and determining which way to head if a storm is coming. Do you outrun it, run for cover, head for the softer side of it? All things you need to learn, and experience plays a huge role in that.


I know this is a ways back in this awesome thread. That said, which side of a storm is the "softer side"?


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## erps

I think that depends on which hemisphere you're in, but if I understand it correctly, it would be on the side of the low where the wind is circling back in the opposite direction that the storm is moving in.


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## artbyjody

Bene505 said:


> I know this is a ways back in this awesome thread. That said, which side of a storm is the "softer side"?


The side of the storm where you can finally break out the "Charmin"?


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## smackdaddy

Bene505 said:


> I know this is a ways back in this awesome thread. That said, which side of a storm is the "softer side"?


Welcome Bene! Good to have you. And don't worry about how far back it was - it's still a great question and the very reason this thread exists in the first place...to talk and learn about big sailing.

Of course, Jody and I obviously don't have a freakin' clue. But there are some great sailors around here like BF, erps, and many others that will give you the answers. Ain't it cool?


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## CharlieCobra

SW quadrant in the Northern Hemisphere but don't start me to lying about the Southern, I would assume NE but I don't really know. Now this also depends on the direction of travel for the NH storm. If the storm is moving West, tie South would be best because you'd soon be out. If NW, the SW would be the sweet spot. I'm still not certain about the SH storms but you can bet I'd find out BEFORE I went sailing down there.


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## farmboy

Smack,

Snowbird is indeed steep and gnarly. I think it's over 50% expert terrain. The thing that struck me about Snowbird the last time I was there (unfortunately 12 years ago this winter) was the caliber of the skiers. When I rode on the 125 person tram car, most of the people on board I recognized as exceptional skiers that I'd taken note of on the mountain. If you're into steeps, then check out Snowbird/Alta if you're in the Salt Lake area.

Jay Peak has Great glades. Some are steep and tight, others are more open and conducive to speed. If you're willing to ski the tight lines with poor visibility close to the trees, you'll find good snow for days after a storm. And they get a ton of snow for an eastern resort. I think 400 inches last year.


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## camaraderie

I hate Snowbird...wrecked my knee there. Bunny slopes for me now! 
Actually a GREAT area...but I can't deal with powder. I prefer the sheet ice of Vermont!


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## smackdaddy

Sheet ice. Sweet. That's great for knees too. You ought to hop on a snowboard. It's generally easier on the knees after you learn - if not harder on the face when you catch an edge. But hey, what have you got to lose?

Hey, have you thrown down a BFS yet? I heard you were in some big race in Florida called....ahm...what was it...ahm....oh yeah, "Solar Stick TransPac".

(PS - Now will you knock my rep points back down to 0?)


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## SelkirkGrace

*Ice instead of snow*



camaraderie said:


> I hate Snowbird...wrecked my knee there. Bunny slopes for me now!
> Actually a GREAT area...but I can't deal with powder. I prefer the sheet ice of Vermont!


My God Cam, sacrilege! Personally I will avoid ice everytime.


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## smackdaddy

Okay - so are any of you salts aside from erps and Charlie going to help out Bene (and the rest of us) with his question? Or do I need to start a skiing thread in the Racing forum?


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## genieskip

In the Northern hemisphere tropical storms rotate in a counterclockwise direction. If the storm is not moving, the relative wind speed is the same at any position the same distance from the center. If the storm is moving you have to add or subtract the speed of that movement, depending on which side you are on, to get the relative speed. 

Say a storm with 60 MPH winds is moving in a northerly direction at 10 MPH. If you are directly east of the center your relative wind is going to be 70 (60 from the storm itself and 10 added by the northerly direction of the storm). If you are directly west of it, it will be 50. In the Northern hemisphere you want to be to the left of the track of any major storm when facing in the direction the storm is moving.

In the southern hemisphere storms rotate in a clockwise direction (same as what happens when bathtubs are emptied) so the above calculations are reversed.


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## blt2ski

This storm stuff is greek to me! right now, it is sunny, I'm going about 7 knots on the water in the cab of my dump twuck, so what more could one ask for?

So, yes we need a ski race thread in the racing area, not that I raced much. Altho did have a week long race camp at hood with harold Schonare(sp?) meet Mahre boys, cindy nelson, already knew/met Deb Arstrong at the time, her dad was TD at the school I tought for at the time. Steve Mahre did a double take at the Buddy Warner championship 10 yrs ago I was coaching at, at some of the contestants were getting autographs from him at lunch one day, and someone at the table noticed two boyz were getting things signed, and they said " are your two twins?' He almost broke his neck turning around. He was there as he had a son? that was in teh race, and of course, the twin boyz are my mine!

Anyway, gotta luv it here in the SJ's when it is sunny etc. Now if I could just spot a pod of killer whales on the trip, that would be really kewl, even thos there is not much wind. Ok, so there is a sealion on the #5 green bouy going into Rosario straight from Anacortes. Does that count?

marty


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## smackdaddy

Thanks Genie. That makes sense. Either side of that one, at this point in my sailing "career", I'm, peein' in my seaboots!

And as for the bathtub - the only one I know around here that can sail those waters is Chuckles. Maybe he can give us further insight as to sailing toward the softer side of the drain funnel with a rum and tonic and pork rinds in hand.


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## smackdaddy

Bluto - cool. I think you need to go over to the Racing forum and start a "Big Freakin' Dump" thread. We can talk about big snows, bad race crashes, and sailing a "dumptruck" at 7 knots (is that slang for a MacGregor?). Just watch out for this guy named Sailhog (and his crew). He's like South Park reincarnated and will be all over it in ways you don't want to think about.


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## blt2ski

Actually not sure what this beast is on am on as far as brand, it is a power barge, with the cabin/engine on the rear, the front 3/4 is semi enclosed on the sides flatbed to move stuff around the islands here. Anyway, now in Roasario straght, a bit of wind out of he north, rocking a bit side to side. Otherwise, nice trip so far, figure about 20 min, then in a channel with no verizon ability to make the LT work. so will probably be offline untill sunday eve.

anyway, should be a fun weekend planting 2500+ plants.......yeah right!

marty


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## smackdaddy

Camaraderie - BFS "Opponent"? What I do like about it is that you'll really get to see the harshing posse doing their thing. They finally have an opening because it's a newbie. Take your shot boys.

Then tell me where you were on Skip Allan's story.

And hey , Cam - I think it was actually a Solar Stick that crushed his leg. You might want to look into that more.


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## artbyjody

The difference between Skip's adventure and RJ's. Quality and overall preparation of the boat and the weather conditions upon each was involved in. Skip had already completed the TransPac and was returning home. He was able to employ his skill (this wasn't exactly his first venture in the wild blue yonder) as a sailor to handle the situation until all else was exhausted. 

RJ is no BFS - granted he had money obviously to buy fancy cameras and a EPRIB. But sadly money doesn't buy common sense when it comes to adjusting the route according to the incoming weather, or understanding (or knowing how) to use the emergency tiller. Big ole difference between the two individuals and what transpired for them to make the call that resulted in being rescued.


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## smackdaddy

Maybe. But they both made that same call, Jody. That's all I'm saying. At that point in time - nothing else matters.

They both went for BFS and got caught...even if you don't want it to be true.


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## Bene505

genieskip said:


> In the Northern hemisphere tropical storms rotate in a counterclockwise direction. If the storm is not moving, the relative wind speed is the same at any position the same distance from the center. If the storm is moving you have to add or subtract the speed of that movement, depending on which side you are on, to get the relative speed.
> 
> Say a storm with 60 MPH winds is moving in a northerly direction at 10 MPH. If you are directly east of the center your relative wind is going to be 70 (60 from the storm itself and 10 added by the northerly direction of the storm). If you are directly west of it, it will be 50. In the Northern hemisphere you want to be to the left of the track of any major storm when facing in the direction the storm is moving.
> 
> In the southern hemisphere storms rotate in a clockwise direction (same as what happens when bathtubs are emptied) so the above calculations are reversed.


So a moving storm is lke a moving helicopter (one side has rotor blades going through the air faster). Never thought about that before. I was thinking it was the side that sweeps you more into harms way, but that would be the same side as the faster-air side. (Maybe more in front as the storm heads.) Thanks Erps, Charlie, Smack and Genie!


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## GeorgeB

When I saw the title line of the “BFS Proponent Rescued at…” thread, my first thought was that our own Smack Daddy, believing the hubris and hyperbole from this thread, had recklessly gone out in bad weather to his or his boat’s demise. I am thankful that it wasn’t the case. I wouldn’t want any bravado that I may have written to be the cause of such a tragedy.

The only common thread between Skip Allen and this kid was they are now both boatless. That’s where it ends. Skip is arguably one of the best sailors ever produced by California. He is legend in these parts. He started racing to Hawaii in his teens and is the veteran of no fewer than 26 single handed and crewed Transpacs, winning six of them. We was a veteran of the 79 Fastnet as a helmsman of a boat that finished. He has some 60 thousand ocean miles under his belt. His resume goes on and on from there. The storm he was in was longer in duration and potentially more intense than the one this kid experienced. The crew on a Pacific Crealock 34 that was transiting the same storm as Skip radio’d their last will and testaments as they too, were on the verge of foundering (I know because we were keeping a radio sked with one of the returning boats). Wildflower was a custom built Wyle 28 made specifically for trans oceanic races. Up to the point of abandonment, Wildflower hadn’t suffered any major gear failures and Skip’s weather router in California was forecasting another week in the storm and that the only hope of rescue was a freighter that was within a day were factors in his abandonment. 

The weather charts were interesting when you plotted his position of 28* 21’ N, 129* 44’ W on them. This puts him on the lower left hand side of the yellow bands, not the brown. Granted, a sea state of 16’ and winds 25-35kts are no laughing matter even in a 40 footer as Giu and myself had tried to point out earlier. But this guy was woefully under prepared and inexperienced. He is lucky to be alive. It is pretty obvious that he had neither drogue nor the knowledge to make one. Likewise, where was his emergency rudder? Well, this guy is now boatless, and his life savings lie at the bottom of the Pacific. Latitude 38 says that he and his equally inexperienced brother want to find a boat in Hawaii and continue on from there. Good luck to them and my advice to you tyros out there is: DON’T DO ANYTHING STUPID! Sail within your skill level, learn and practice good seamanship and don’t take any unnecessary risks.


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## Giulietta

G ..did you get my PM?


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## smackdaddy

Okay, so in his seemingly patented technique of Passive-Agressive Moderation (see the Solar Stick Scandal), our esteemed gate keeper, Camaraderie, has challenged the idea of BFS. Well, in an indirect and back-handed way, but still...

I say, bring it on pork chop!

I addressed his attack on the young sailor in question in his rip-off-of-a-thread with a comparison to Skip Allan's BFS (one of the inaugural stories of this thread). Then I deigned to follow up with a couple of explanations - which, of course, were quickly taken out of context. Then the thread, predictably, careened into many wishing the young man some very ill will. Yet there were a couple of guys I actually respect (e.g. - George above) that might have misunderstood what I was saying. So, if you please, a moment to clarify.

The real question here is this: Is the very idea of BFS blasphemy? This, I believe, is the underlying thrust of Cam's roundabout thread - and I think it's total, unmitigated MDB. Here's why...

RJ and Skip Allan had the EXACT same outcome in roughly the same waters in roughly the same conditions (though Skip's was a bit more intense). This is undebatable. It's fact. Agreed?

So what do you do with this? What are the comparisons to be drawn? Does this justify RJ? Does it denigrate Skip?

I think you have to break it down into 4 pieces to make any judgment at all. And these 4 pieces are the cornerstones of BFS (the extent of each being determined by the chosen challenge):

1. Desire for adventure, challenge, and excitement in big sailing.
2. Willingness and determination to lay it on the line and push.
3. Willingness and determination to prepare and smarten-up as much as possible.
4. Decision to go.

After these four, of course, is the outcome. If a "success", you get your plaque on the wall and the slaps on the back of being bold and courageous. If a "failure", you get something else altogether. And this is where this comparison gets interesting.

Skip Allan, as pointed out by George whom I respect a great deal, is truly a legendary, skilled sailor who knows exactly how bad things can get. NO DOUBT.

So, what on earth does he have in common with this RJ kid? Anyone can see the excoriation RJ has received on this site - BUT - it's for the SAME OUTCOME as this respected legend. So where did they depart - and where did the idea of BFS become heresy in RJ's case when it wasn't in Skip's?

1. Desire for adventure, challenge, and excitement in big sailing.
-Skip: Yes
-RJ: Yes

2. Willingness and determination to lay it on the line.
-Skip: Yes
-RJ: Yes

3. Willingness and determination to truly prepare and smarten-up as much as possible.
-Skip: Yes ('79 casts this in an even more interesting light)
-RJ: No

4. The decision to go and push it.
-Skip: Yes
-RJ: Yes.

At it's core, the philosophy of BFS is built on 1 and 2. These are the starting blocks - and are critical to doing anything remotely "big". 4 is the launch. And then you have the outcome that we all see before us. And in the final outcome itself, there was no difference between the two sailors. None.

The question-on-high then comes down to 3. And this is where all the hubbub is - rightly so. But the kicker here is the caveat "as much as possible". Who is the keeper of this medal? Who is the judge? Who says, "You now know enough, go sail." Tough call, huh Cam?

At the end of the day RJ admitted he was unprepared after being "beaten". Skip admitted that he was just "beaten". Both called for help. Both were rescued.

This doesn't make Skip a bad sailor any more than it makes RJ a good one. But it does force you to have some perspective on RJ's outcome.

Cam, where is that line exactly? When does one have enough knowledge to "deserve" BFS? If even the very best get caught and have to follow the exact same course of action as the "idiot" kid - tell me when you'll be happy that we have enough 3 to cast off. Tell me when the loss of SAR personnel becomes justified. I'd honestly like to know.

In terms of being a sailor, RJ is no Skip. I would never propose such a preposterous thing - George. I hope you understand that. RJ screwed up. He did something "stupid". And he seems to know that at this point (we'll see what happens next). But RJ has just as much 1 and 2 as does Skip - no doubt. He went BFS just as big as Skip, he just blew 3. And it cost him big.

For me personally, I want a lot more 3 before I cast off for big water. But even then, I won't know enough at that point. That is gospel truth. How can you really - ever? This is kind of the point of BFS. I'll tell you what though, I've learned a lot from RJ - just like I've learned a lot from Skip and the salts herein about 3. Again - the point of BFS.

In terms of what happened to Skip - I would bet my rudder that not even you or Sailaway know enough to master something like that. Are you going to call him a chump? This is a guy that had been through it in '79! And he was STILL out there. That's old AND bold, dude. Your theorem scratched.

For you guys, it seems that EVERYTHING is about number 3. That it's the all in all. You guys seem to intellectualize sailing to the point that it becomes the most un-fun thing imaginable - only open to engineers and maritime pros. You guys hope this kid fails so you can be right? Then the dog pile happens when he hits the deck? Jeez. Lots and lots of 3 didn't save Skip, dude. So it can't be the all-in-all can it?

You know as well as I do every sailor, every time, tempts fate when we point the bow out. We simply mitigate the risk by having as much 3 under out belts as possible.

As for that, I'll wager you that I (and many a newbie) have learned more about sailing in this thread from some of the greatest sailors around happily talking about handling very, very difficult situations than anywhere else on this site. If you think about it, it's an incredible privilege. It's like being able to sit at a table full of seasoned salts while they're talking excitedly about the life they love and the adventures they've had - even when you're a greenhorn who could never have that bar stool in real life (at least not for years). Talk about learning! Talk about an honor. Talk about safe.

Then you guys want to come in and shut them up. Why? What in the hell do you find so threatening?

If you want to "shame" these guys into not telling their stories and lessons for fear it might push some newbie into the sea before we're ready - then stand up and say so. Here. I will tell you this, though, the majority of us can think for ourselves fairly well. Unless we think there's not much more to live for - we're going to learn before we jump. We're going to soak up as much as we can. And we're still going to screw up at some point.

In the mean time, I want to learn from these guys in this thread. They're sailors who have a happy disposition. They actually love sailing. God bless 'em.

I hope they keep talking about the life they love. It sure is a hell of a lot of fun living/reliving it with them. A lot more fun that what's going on in that thread of yours.

Now - enough of this MDB. Let's move on to some BFS...please!


----------



## sailortjk1

Another example of how Mother Nature is still in charge.
You tempt her enough times, and she will bite you hard.
This from a measly Force 8 Gale.

*Pictured: The cargo ship smashed to pieces just minutes after 31-strong crew were plucked to safety*

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 9:36 AM on 12th October 2008

Comments (10) 
Add to My Stories 
The crew of a cargo ship were plucked to safety as their 35,000 tonne vessel snapped in half after smashing against rocks in the Strait of Gilbraltar.
The Liberian-registered Fedra had been dragging her anchor in a force 8 gale on Friday afternoon.
Despite earlier efforts of two tug boats to hold the ship clear of land its anchor broke and the stern of the vessel smashed against rocks at Europa Point - Europe's most southerly spot.









Close call: Crew members on this Fedra cargo ship were airlifted to safety after their vessel snapped in two against Gibraltar rocks

Defying extreme winds, a Spanish maritime rescue helicopter airlifted five men from the bow of the 24-year old bulk carrier Fedra as it lay pinned by pounding waves at the base of cliffs in Gilbraltar.
But the savage weather played havoc with the helicopter's engine, forcing the pilot to make an emergency landing with men still left stranded on deck, according to maritime and transport news portal Lloyd's List.
In small groups throughout the night, Gibraltarian rescuers hauled up wet, shivering and terrified crew members.









Wild weather: Fedra was ripped apart by vicious seas









Race against time: Rescuers feared they were lose the 31 men and worked throughout the night to pluck them to safety

At one point, with 11 men still on board, the operation had to be suspended as the storm intensified. 
'We thought we were going to lose them,' one exhausted rescuer told Lloyd's List.
'But at around 7am, we had a small weather window.









Emergency landing: Rescuers were held back by savage weather

'We knew this was the only chance they had.'
By mid Saturday morning the Fedra had been ripped apart by the sea, torn in two close to the crew's accommodation quarters. 
Both sections of the ship remain trapped against the cliffs, heaving and hammering violently in the pitching seas.
The men, mostly Filipino sailors, were treated in hospital but were later released and taken to a local hotel. 
The Fedra is 24 years old and is owned by Fedra Navigation SA.









Lucky escape: The ship remains trapped against the cliffs, while some of its 31 crew were transported to hospital for treatment


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## smackdaddy

Holy crap, TJ! Great story and pics. Is this the same area as Giu's BFW videos from a week or so ago?

Mother Nature always calls the shots.


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## smackdaddy

Hey Charlie - what have you heard from Ccam lately? Was he near Gale Alley too when that bad weather came through last week? I hope not.


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## CharlieCobra

I haven't heard from Cam since last weekend. The weather down there's been nasty offshore and the last I saw there was one Hurricane and one TS off the Baja coast. He may still be in SF but I don't know. I'll give him a call later.


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## GeorgeB

Hey, Smack, is this thread completely dead or are you still interested in sailing? I happened upon this photo taken from September's Interclub race here in San Francisco. Proof that C27s are good looking boats, especially when they are sailed well. And yes, you can have fun without burying the rail. Note that: This guy is sailing with tight leaches; Jib fairleads are forward (for this 130 headsail) in the "power up" position; Headstay is taught, indicating he has applied backstay tension; Traveller is slightly down to give him less weather helm (and a better steering grove); His tell-tales are streaming back and slightly lifting; His crew (and helmsman) are most likely on the weather rail providing weight trim. You can tell that he is pretty much up to hull speed as you can see that he is pushing a monster bow (and stern) wave which is giving the optical illusion that the leeward deck is under. Rest assured it isn't. For guys like me, this is the essence of sailing. This looks right. Sailing on your ear, out of control, doesn't.








<O</O


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## sailortjk1

George, try reposting the picture, I see nothing.
Thanks


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## CharlieCobra

GeorgeB, depends on the boat. Oh Joy does best with the rail right at or slightly in the water. Of course, she was built in 1961 and was a throwback design by S&S and Knutson to the yachts of the 30's with an updated (for then) keel and interior. The C-27 does sail better flatter as do most modern boats. One of the few modern boats that likes it on their ear are the Spirit Yachts. Smack, ya oughta buy Don Guilette's "Sail Trim" with companion laminated chart. I did and it helped me a lot when I first started sailing. Spending a lot of time on SA and here actually reading threads on how to do certain things helped much too.


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## smackdaddy

Woohoo George! I'm always interested in sailing, dude! Please re-try that photo link. I'm dying to see a C27 doing it's thing. Mine's just been rolling its eyes as I'm on my ear and losing the helm. But, you know, that's kind of fun sometimes too. Anyway, my goal is to match your photo at some point this fall - well I guess I need to see it first.

Charlie - I'll get that book. And, believe it or not, I have actually been perusing more threads on both sites. Lots of good stuff. I'll continue to do so my good man (even when I get banned!).


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## Bene505

I saw the picture. Right click on the blank space where the picture should be and left click on "show picture". (That or hit the picture's link in the 'Big Freakin' Sails email.)


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## blt2ski

http://i.pbase.com/g1/16/866916/2/103099890.vWqQDKkL.jpg
Lets try that for a pic, it is a good shot
I can post the link, but can not get the pic to show, I can also get the pic to show when I C&P, anyway, maybe george can get it fixed.

Marty


----------



## tenuki

blt2ski said:


> I can post the link, but can not get the pic to show, I can also get the pic to show when I C&P, anyway, maybe george can get it fixed.
> 
> Marty


Hey Marty, good result on FWB. 3rd in class and 4th overall?! awesome.


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## Stillraining

Tells me its "Forbidden"


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## blt2ski

tenuki said:


> Hey Marty, good result on FWB. 3rd in class and 4th overall?! awesome.


Yeah it was, we even did it without you fat arse as ballast this year! It would have been nice to have one more, along with my storm jib working, instead of in the garage.....oh well, next year........well maybe not next year, s ECYC fleet cptn, I probably only get to stand in the RC boat and watch

What are you doing the 25th? have a race off of shilshoal, want to make sure I have bodies, along with this sunday. The 25th if light enogh winds, will have a 155 carbon being deivered next week, and my 110 should have luff tape for the new foil that is going on the forestay!

Marty


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## sailortjk1

OK, I give up.
Here is one from earlier this season.
I made some mistakes that day and deserve to be called an AFOC for them, but we survived to sail again. Biggest mistake of the day was leaving a safe anchorage.



 
Yes, we had a pretty rough go of it yesterday.
Here is the story...........
And its a long one....................

When I left work on Friday, the last weather forecast I had was for the Lake to be nasty on Saturday and that it was to calm down Saturday Evening and be calm on Sunday. Saturday was calling for 5 - 7 foot waves and 1 - 3 foot waves for Sunday.

So, we got to the boat on Friday night. Saturday we woke and it was blowing like crazy in the marina and you could tell that the lake would be very rough. We stayed in the marina and did boat work all day. I took care of a couple of projects while Julie organized. We went to the Farmers market, Breakfast, shopping, etc.... In the late afternoon around 4:00 it started to calm down. We had unexpected visitors come by and spend about an hour with us, and than after they had left, I decided we should go out.

We left the harbor and had a beautiful late evening sail. Lake was flat winds were nice.
It was a great time to be out.

Before we had left the docks, we had decided to stay overnight on anchor and not return until sometime on Sunday. (Remember, the forecast for Sunday was for calm seas. I did not think that staying overnight at anchor was in anyway going to be placing us in jeopardy.)

While under sail we discussed where to anchor. I always like the little sail of about ten miles to the North to a small lake called Pigeon Lake. I made the decision to go to Pigeon Lake. Julie wanted to go back to Lake Macatawa and head to the anchorage at Pine Creek.

So I sailed to Pigeon Lake.

Now, the entrance to Pigeon Lake is very narrow, can be very shallow, and is known to shoal in spots with sand from the river. In fact if you read the charts, there is a warning to mariners to use caution when entering the channel.

Well the lake was flat calm at this point when I proceeded to enter the channel. As I was entering I was constantly monitoring the depth. Just past the pier heads and before it gets real narrow, I was reading a depth of 6-1/2 to 7 feet. Not a lot of room for error, as we draw 5 feet.

We had no problems entering and found a nice little place to anchor.
As we were setting the hook, we could see a group on shore enjoying a nice bonfire.
Other than that, we had the place to ourselves.

Spent the night there doing our usual routine; watching movies. 
No problems except for a couple of showers and gusty winds during the night.

In the morning, I could tell that the winds were gusty.
I could not see the lake though because we were around the corner from the channel entrance. I turned on the weather radio and heard that a small craft warning was posted for Sunday until Sunday evening. No big deal, we sail in small craft warnings all the time.

Pulled the anchor and started towards the lake.
As soon as I made the turn and could see down the channel, I knew it was going to be trouble.

White caps of what appeared to be about six feet were rolling into the shallow, narrow channel. My first reaction was to turn around, reset the anchor and wait it out. Than the stupid we can do anything side of me said, everybody has to be at work on Monday. If we sit it out who knows when we will get out of here. So, I went for it.

The most dangerous part of the day was not destroying our sail. It was the motor out of Pigeon Lake. Remember, I read 6-1/2 to 7 feet going in. With rollers in the channel the bottom of the trough would be less.

We motored into the quagmire of nasty seas. The boat rose over the top of a big breaker, slammed down on the backside of the wave, and than lurched on the bottom. She skipped right off and the diesel engine kept her creeping along. We repeated the same scenario a second time but thank God the boat kept moving forward. If she had stuck on the bottom in those conditions....... well we would have been in very grave danger. Rolling breaking seas and a narrow shallow channel are not the place you want to be. We never should have tried to leave, but once the decision was made, we had to go for it. Once in the channel, there was no way in heck I was going to be able to turn around.

After we cleared the pier heads I was very relieved. Although now we were in open water in big seas I felt better about the situation. We put up a bit of mainsail and steered a course towards home. By a bit, I mean we had about half the main out and never touched the Genny. With a heavily reefed main only, the boat speed was about 6.5knots.

Seas were about 5-7 foot with set of about 10 feet every so often. The waves were constantly breaking or white capping. Foam was all around us.
Winds were from the North West at a steady 25 knots and very gusty to over 30 knots.

Our course was pretty much straight South which meant we were sailing a broad reach. The Wind and the waves were coming over our right shoulder. We were taking the seas on the Starboard quarter. With the waves on the quarter we were experiencing quite a bit of corkscrewing.

During the time when I was raising the sails, we took a wave in the cockpit. I was soaking wet with the 40 degree temperature lake water. I had on my foulie jacket but not my pants and I was now in jeans that were soaking wet. Julie was soaking wet as well. After we got everything under control, I gave the wheel to Julie and went below to change.

I changed and handed up Julie her life jacket. Yes, I finally decided after all of this that it was time to put on life jackets.

Julie actually was enjoying her turn at the helm. Once she got used to it, she liked it. 6.5 knots boat speed, heavy seas, and she was having a good time. The corkscrewing continued, which was the most difficult part of being at the helm.

I changed into dry clothes and got on my full foulies suit and sea boots.
Julie went down below to change.

At this point we are having a good time. The boat is under control. We are sailing at 6.5 knots. Big waves all around, but we are handling everything just fine and the boat is doing well.

I took my place at the helm and than asked that my PFD be sent up. Why I did not put it on when I was below, I will never know. I was more concerned about relieving Julie at the helm than I was about my safety. Although she was enjoying it, it was clear that Julie had her hands full at the helm.

It was while I was steering the boat and trying to put on my life jacket at the same time, that we had our mishap.

At the helm you had to be constantly on your toes turning the wheel and paying attention. The helm could not be left unattended for a second and the strain was too much to be using the auto pilot. Well, I was trying to put on my PFD and the boat turned too far to the left which caused the boat to jibe accidentally. It was not my intent to jibe the boat. I knew that a jibe in these conditions would be dangerous.

Well the boat jibed and the boom swung over to the other side and the sail just exploded from the force of the wind transferring from one side to the other. I mean it was shredded and tattered.

I said some very loud curse words and cursed myself for letting it happen.
Julie was down below and had no idea what was going on. She could tell from my reaction that some thing bad had just happened.

She came on board as I put the boat in gear and we began to now motor in the nasty following seas. The boat became even more unstable with the tattered sail up.

I rolled the shreds into the mast as we limped home.

The corkscrewing got worse. Julie got seasick. She spent the last hour with a bucket in her hands.

A small piece of the sail leach still waved above us as a reminder of how dangerous the lake can be, and we were not home yet.

The entrance to Holland was another cauldron of seas. Large waves of ten or more feet were hitting the piers and bouncing back into each other creating a stirring mix of confusion. It was not pretty.

Got through that ok and now headed towards the dock in gusty crosswind conditions. Thank God the position of our slip was blowing us onto rather than away from the slip.
I told Julie just before entering; Just do it like we always do.

In the channel between A dock and Z dock, making our final approach I had the boat in neutral and we were going 5 knots from the wind. I would usually be doing about 3 knots. 
Made the turn into the slip and hit reverse HARD. She stopped on a dime as Julie first slipped on the spring line followed by the bow line. Like I told her, she did every thing just like we always do.

Safely tied to the slip we could now relax, regroup, and start to heal from all our wounds.
The small section of leach still clinging on was cut off.

More work lies ahead in trying to get the jammed up shreds out of the mast and remove the remains of the sail. We will try and accomplish that next weekend.

We got nothing but time now until a new sail can be made.
Should be out for about a month or so as we regroup.

Thank God nobody got hurt.


----------



## Giulietta

Smack...(from a young friend I have I post this for you on his behalf)..

He says:

What about if the sails are small? Will it be SFS? He says that and laughs...he's a silly boy..

Here is Fred doing some SFS for you to see...he asks if you like these and if you think they are SFS or BFS..









































































(be nice to him, please.he's only a child)


----------



## CharlieCobra

In response to the post above Alex's

Just when ya think ya have a good grip on it, something like this bites ya in the ass don't it? I've seen that waves in shoals thing happen before but not to me yet. How far out did ya have the mast from centerline, in degrees, when ya blew up the Main, just curious. Yep the rolling is MUCH worse with no sails up. Other than the carnage, ya learned or reinforced some valuable lessons here. Always put on the PFD when the weather gets up, even before ya leave the dock.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Alex, I've seen videos of Opti's in the shyte hauling butt! Ya get those things out in a stiff breeze, it can be a BFS.


----------



## blt2ski

THose are wanna be BFS's! They are BFS's in his dreams thos. SOOOOOo with that, I vote for them being BFS's. Only until he is a teenager, then they go to LFS's!

I remember seeing some adults in opti's in 20-30 knots, 10'ish M waves sometime in the last year. Maybe those are the video's CC speaks and links. just quickly printing some stuff, then out the door, in the mean time, enjoy your day, I'm off to a BFS across puget sound on a ferry to Vashion Island.

Marty


----------



## Giulietta

Excellent post Tim..I remember you telling me about it...


----------



## T34C

Fred's is definatly a BFS! The actual sail size might be smaller, but so is the sailor, its proportional.


----------



## sailingdog

Some of those Opti sailors are completely NUTS.


----------



## Delirious

See. Even the little buckaroos don't have boats with trainer hulls. (aka trimarans).

Kidding! Just kidding!


----------



## Giulietta

Delirious said:


> See. Even the little buckaroos don't have boats with trainer hulls.


He can also ride a bicycle!!!! and Speaks English...appart from being able to sail     

SD can only do 2 of those above....he knows how to ride a bike..I saw....


----------



## smackdaddy

Giu - Fred freaking rocks. That's all there is to it. He's all about BFS - with a big ol' fan club of which I am president and treasurer. By the way, I need 10 bucks for his new business cards.

Seriously, I'd be happy to take lessons from him anytime.

Okay - boarding a plane. Talk to you guys in a week or so.


----------



## Faster

Fred's a star, we all know that!

TJK - great post, well told.


----------



## craigtoo

Nice one Tim! Mrs. TJK is totally awesome!!!!

Fred is obviously still a better sailor than his Dad. Clear to me. Go Fred! The Smaller the boat.. the Bigger the FS in my book!


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## cardiacpaul

I'm rather sure the kid takes after his moms side of the family...


----------



## craigtoo

cardiacpaul said:


> I'm rather sure the kid takes after his moms side of the family...


That's the truth...! Go Fred!!!!!


----------



## sailingdog

Well, he didn't get his brains from his father's side... 


cardiacpaul said:


> I'm rather sure the kid takes after his moms side of the family...


----------



## sailortjk1

Second to the last weekend of the season coming up.
The forecast is for a nice day on Saturday and than we git hit hard on Sunday. We had planned our last little weekend cruise, but it looks like we will be sticking close to home on Sunday. 
6 - 9 Foot Steep Choopy No Break Inbetween Great Lakes Seas can make for a long day. Sorry Smacky, we might go play around in it a little, but no overnight cruising this weekend. 

Forecast:

Sunday
Southwest winds to 30 knots becoming south. Waves 6 to 9 feet.


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## T34C

Tim have a great weekend! Go out and enjoy while you still can. My boat got hauled on Monday so be sure to come back with a good story or two.


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## Bene505

Yesterday I was on my new-to-me boat solo, wind 24 gusting to 30 and..... I didn't take her out. Call me a wimp, however: 1) it was more wind than I've ever sailed anything in, solo or not, 2) I don't have much solo time with her, I'd like to get more solo practice on calmer days (she's 50 feet long and not all lines lead aft), 3) the engine was unreliable, needing some work, and 4) I had a list of work that I was doing on the boat before winter hit (see #3).

Instead I got some work done and made myself some hot soup. Next time maybe.


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## CharlieCobra

Good reason not to go out in that, especially solo. I won't usually go out solo in anything over 20 m'self do to docking issues. None of Oh Joy's lines go aft either. If I've got one crew member, it game on though.


----------



## SelkirkGrace

*Good Call*



Bene505 said:


> Yesterday I was on my new-to-me boat solo, wind 24 gusting to 30 and..... I didn't take her out. Call me a wimp, however: 1) it was more wind than I've ever sailed anything in, solo or not, 2) I don't have much solo time with her, I'd like to get more solo practice on calmer days (she's 50 feet long and not all lines lead aft), 3) the engine was unreliable, needing some work, and 4) I had a list of work that I was doing on the boat before winter hit (see #3).
> 
> Instead I got some work done and made myself some hot soup. Next time maybe.


Your not going to make it into BFS this way, but I would have made the same call! A reliable engine and set up to single hand are the best tickets to staying out of trouble. Having said that you are going to love it when you do go out!!!


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## CharlieCobra

For those who are interested, I just got off the phone with Cam. He's in San Diego waiting for his Cape Horn and sails to arrive. He stands out for Cabo with the Ha Ha on Monday. He took the close in route down and avoided the worst of the weather. Another boat was 200 miles out and got wore on pretty good with lotsa green water on deck. He's updating the blog and will call me when he gets to Cabo.


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## smackdaddy

Hey Charlie - give Ccam the proverbial fist bump for me when you talk to him next. Sounds like he's sailing big AND sailing smart! Wait - is that even possible for someone without a Master Seaman's license and Sailnet T-Shirt? Why, he's defying reality itself!

Go Ccam! (see what an extra c-can-do)

Bene - good call. Of course, this is the "did" thread - not the "didn't". Was it at least Big Freakin' Soup?


----------



## smackdaddy

Chuckles - Thanks for the rep "tweak on the way out" as you put it. Though I'm not sure where out is.


----------



## sailortjk1

As many of you already know, from another thread, we did go venture out on Sunday. Spent a couple of hours on the little lake, than went about a 1/2 mile out on the big lake and immediatley tuned back.

Here are some photo's, and the camera, as usual, does not do justice to the conditions. The NOAA buoy reported winds steady at 24 gusting to 28, waves 6 - 7 feet.










Exiting the channel: The Lovely Tamara; Sway's Wife, she is a doll, don't ask me how he managed to hook her.










Exiting the channel: My wife Julianna, don't aske me the same question.










Looking aft towards the channel entrance, it does not look like it, but these were choppy sloopy waves. Typical of the great lakes, very steep and no break inbetween. What you can see is that the waves are right on top of each other.










Hey Smacky, I need you to get out your protractor, how many degrees healed are we.










It was a good day but my wife Julie was not having fun.
She was down below trying to keep the dog from falling all over the place.
Than she said to me, "Tim, there's no need to go looking for BFS, they will find you!" Wonder where she learned that from?


----------



## JohnRPollard

Tim,

These photos do not look anything like the previous illustrations we saw. Please explain the inconsistency!?
  

fun sailing!


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## sailortjk1

John,
One word............. Alex!


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## Bene505

BFS and you still had the dodger window open. Nice pictures!


----------



## T34C

Bene505 said:


> BFS and you still had the dodger window open. Nice pictures!


DODGER!! Who needs a dodger in the first place????

I didn't know Sway was married to a Nun. (?)


----------



## nealmc

Hey all,

I have been lurking around for a while now on the forum and this thread finally got me out of the woodwork to register. BFSs are the reason I got hooked so hard to the world of sailing. Granted, I have only been on a sailboat for probably less than 24 hours total, and a few more BFSs of a different sort might unhook me, but manning the tiller flying full canvass up in 25 knots and 6-8 foot waves in an Ensign with a captain who had to have been pushing 80 and who needed a cane to get around on land was one of the more memorable experiences of my short sailing career.

Not to mention this thread makes for great at-work time-killer reading.

So here's one for the BFS stories. Keep them coming!

-Neal


----------



## CharlieCobra

One thing to keep in mind. One man's BFS is another's snooze cruise. It's a matter of experience and perception. The first time I buried the rail to the cabin in my V-21 while singlehanding was a BFS at the time. Now I'll just get a grin outta it.


----------



## tenuki

Saw this on SA. Some fellow idiots crossed the english channel in a storm, windsurfing. At least they raised some money for a good cause.



From the press release:

The current windsurfing world champion Antoine Albeau of France and 13 times British Champion windsurfer Guy Cribb windsurfed across the English Channel in a storm, taking the long route from Cherbourg to Poole (70 miles). Antoine's windsurfing record is 56 mph, but on this remarkable journey to raise money for the Ellen MacArthur Trust their top speeds were around 40 mph over huge waves and choppy water, making it very difficult and dangerous to sail faster.

Their average speed was slower as they had to deal with massive waves and giant tankers in the busy shipping lanes, and needed to rest due to fatigue and high speed crashes. At times they were over 30 miles from the nearest land with waves the size or rows of terraced houses, blocking their view of each other and of their support boats. No one has ever windsurfed across this wide stretch of the Channel before in a storm.

They raised over £7000 for the Ellen MacArthur Trust which takes young people aged between 8-18 on sailing trips to help them regain their confidence, on their way to recovery from cancer, leukaemia and other serious illness. They had a hero's welcome at Sandbanks with BBC and ITV covering the story live.

"This was the toughest day's windsurfing of my life. I've sailed in 30ft surf and 70 mph winds before, but nothing was as hard as this crossing. At the half way stage I left my kit and clambered on board the rescue boat exhausted. I was sea sick, cold, starving and had absolutely no energy left. I then had to jump back into the sea, 30 miles from England with only one way home. I had cramp everywhere but had to finish it for the charity. It was an amazing day!" - Guy Cribb

"This was much harder than I imagined. The waves and the chop were really dangerous. We could not of done this today with out the support of each other- when Guy was tired I pushed him on, when I was tired he was pushing me. It was perfect." - Antoine Albeau.

_(source SA)_


----------



## smackdaddy

TJ - "Tim, there's no need to go looking for BFS, they will find you!" I'm just teary-eyed to know that whacked slang has so seriously infected your family lexicon. Makes me wonder what your dinner table conversations are like. I just hope and pray you don't read Sailhog FC dialogue to one another. Ouch.

Neal - Welcome, dude. Great to have you. And especially great to have another who appreciates the BFS philosophy. It's rare these days - believe me. Octogenarian-with-cane burying the rail. Dude, it sounds like you've started out with the right skipper! And my hunch is that each BFS you get under your belt will just make you love it all the more. Just look at Charlie.

Tenuki - I'm just glad to see that you're finally accepting those guys as FELLOW idiots. That's the spirit! There's hope for you yet.


----------



## Giulietta

Want BFS???

Like Bloody Fast Sailing?

http://i212.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid212.photobucket.com/albums/cc65/giuliettacsc2/MOV03173.flv


----------



## tenuki

Giulietta said:


> Want BFS???
> 
> Like Bloody Fast Sailing?


Hey, your deck is all wet. You should probably let it dry after you hose it off before you go out sailing. That could be dangerous, you might slip and fall.

ps - that is some serious backwinding you are getting in your main. Is that usual for Guilietta in those conditions?


----------



## sailhog

Alex, you are screaming! That's a fine video...


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## smackdaddy

Yo Hog! Great to see you around, dude! You been sailing lately?

Giu - good grief, man. I have GOT to automate my boat like yours so I can get into that Roman Polanski thing like you (the filming I mean - not swinging with 14 year old girls). How many knots? True. No MDB now.


----------



## T34C

G- Would you quit blowing on the camera mic, trying to make it sound like you're going faster than 4kts!!


----------



## smackdaddy

The issue of a steerage failure has been thoroughly flogged over in the Anti-BFS thread and it got me thinking...

I've seen Giu's very good video as to rudderless steering with the sails (though I still challenge him to pull it into the slip that way). But in an admittedly quick search of the threads, I've not seen a good explanation of how to properly rig an emergency tiller.

I'm starting to think this is a pretty important skill to learn for BFS - so how about some newbie help here.

Dog - you mentioned a boathook and vice grips set up. I think I can see that for a tiller (which I have) to a degree - but how would it work for a wheel? And what's the actual set up for both?

And, as long as the rudder is still on the boat, what are kinds of failures that you can fix, versus the ones that are hopeless?

Thanks.


----------



## sailingdog

smackdaddy said:


> Dog - you mentioned a boathook and vice grips set up. I can see that for a tiller (which I have) to a degree - but how would it work for a wheel? And what's the actual set up for both?
> 
> And, as long as the rudder is still on the boat, what are kinds of failures that you can fix, versus the ones that are hopeless?
> 
> Thanks.


Smackdaddy-

* The problem with Ronnie's boat was that the wheel steering system's rudder quadrant, which is how the wheel turns the rudder, was no longer fixed to the rudder stock/shaft. *This usually happens when the key, a small metal part that registers the quadrant and prevents it from rotating freely, shears off. Chances are likely that the key on this boat was 47 YEARS OLD... Nothing dealing with the wheel would have allowed you to steer the boat, since the wheel was no longer effectively "connected" to the rudder.

The vice grips could be attached to a rudder stock and give you a point to lash/attach the boat hook. The boat hook, provided it was stout enough, would give you the leverage needed to turn the rudder.

I've used vise grips to do just that on a Farrier 9a, when the rudder post casting broke. Not fun...but workable.

BTW, most wheel steered boats have a rudder stock that an emergency tiller can be affixed to. In some cases, the emergency tiller has to be affixed below decks, since there is no good access to the rudder stock on-deck. One problem that occurs on a wheel steered boat, and this actually was part of Ken Barnes's problem, is that if the wheel is damaged/bent, it can often prevent you from being able to turn the rudder. In a case like that, you'd have to disconnect the wheel steering before you could use the emergency tiller.


----------



## smackdaddy

Dog - gotcha. Thanks. I was just looking at the thread about the guy's bolt failure on his PS 31 (JohnP was part of that discussion as well) and understand the problem a bit more - and your explanation of the solution. 

So, essentially, if Ronnie's "post" had actually broken, depending on where the break happened, he still could have possibly rigged steerage directly to the intact part of the stock right?

So, to continue in the vein of completely uninformed questions and wrong terminology - what if an actual tiller busts (say at the top bolted "collar")? Is this a fixable situation? Or does the rudder just meander to the bottom of the drink? And how would you tie into the stock in this situation?

Thanks for your help dude.


----------



## Delirious

The three wheel boats I've owned all require the wheel be dismounted to give the e.tiller swinging room. Better make sure you have the 1-1/4" or whatever it is Edson nut wrench handy. That's larger than commonly carried. 

PS - a packing gland spanner works in a pinch; and EVERYBODY with an inboard engine has one or two of those . . . don't they?


----------



## smackdaddy

Delirious said:


> PS - a packing gland spanner works in a pinch; and EVERYBODY with an inboard engine has one or two of those . . . don't they?


Not sure about my packing gland, but I know the Admiral's is definitely enlarged.


----------



## sailingdog

smackdaddy said:


> Dog - gotcha. Thanks. I was just looking at the thread about the guy's bolt failure on his PS 31 (JohnP was part of that discussion as well) and understand the problem a bit more - and your explanation of the solution.
> 
> So, essentially, if Ronnie's "post" had actually broken, depending on where the break happened, he still could have possibly rigged steerage directly to the intact part of the stock right?


Yes, possibly, depending how accessible the remaining portion of the rudder stock was.



> So, to continue in the vein of completely uninformed questions and wrong terminology - what if an actual tiller busts (say at the top bolted "collar")? Is this a fixable situation? Or does the rudder just meander to the bottom of the drink? And how would you tie into the stock in this situation?
> 
> Thanks for your help dude.


If the tiller actually snaps...that's probably the simplest of situations to deal with, since you can often slip something over the remaining piece of tiller and steer the boat that way. Most rudder stocks aren't kept in the boat by the collar at the tiller, but usually by something down below, where the rudder stock passes through the rudder tube.


----------



## T34C

*...this actually was part of Ken Barnes's problem, is that if the wheel is damaged/bent, it can often prevent you from being able to turn the rudder. In a case like that, you'd have to disconnect the wheel steering before you could use the emergency tiller.*

Not totally accurate. You COULD disconect the wheel steering, or you could remove the wheel, or you could cut the bent section of the wheel off. (You do carry a hacksaw and/or bolt cutters right?) Ken Barnes problem wasn't mechanical, it was that he was stupid.


----------



## smackdaddy

Cool - thanks again Dog. Hey, man, you ain't so bad! I mean if you're willing to help _me_ out - you must have some heart.

Okay, one more hypothetical and I'll leave you alone....

Tlller. Stock shears at the collar. Stock is still there but too far down in the tube to "grab" onto. Screwed?

[Start the clock.]

And for the bonus round, let's throw in one more complication: At the very moment of shear, you're just at the mouth of the marina where you are picking up two topless Norwegian ladies who want to film a documentary of your voyage. They're watching closely to see what happens. What do you do now?


----------



## smackdaddy

T34C said:


> *...this actually was part of Ken Barnes's problem, is that if the wheel is damaged/bent, it can often prevent you from being able to turn the rudder. In a case like that, you'd have to disconnect the wheel steering before you could use the emergency tiller.*
> 
> Not totally accurate. You COULD disconect the wheel steering, or you could remove the wheel, or you could cut the bent section of the wheel off. (You do carry a hacksaw and/or bolt cutters right?) Ken Barnes problem wasn't mechanical, it was that he was stupid.


Oh boy, here we go again.


----------



## sailortjk1

There are several ways to jury rig a device that could be used for emergency steerage.
A piece of plywood lashed to a spinnaker pole is one. Than lash that to your rail. No plywood, take off one of your saloon doors, cut it up into a usable size.
Another option is the use of drouges, no drouge, try using a bucket. No buchet, drag a sail, just don't get any of them fouled.


----------



## bubb2

strike the head sail, Reef her main down or go to bare poles. Take your anchor rode and make a bridle at mid point and connect the anchor at the mid point. take both bitter ends to the cockpit winches and make fast. launch anchor over the stern. depending on which winch you tighten up on you can steer the boat with the drag the anchor makes to one side or the other. this will give you time to work on that rudder.


----------



## smackdaddy

bubb2 said:


> strike the head sail, Reef her main down or go to bare poles. Take your anchor rode and make a bridle at mid point and connect the anchor at the mid point. take both bitter ends to the cockpit winches and make fast. launch anchor over the stern. depending on which winch you tighten up on you can steer the boat with the drag the anchor makes to one side or the other. this will give you time to work on that rudder.


Wow. Now that's cool bubb!


----------



## sailortjk1

smackdaddy said:


> Wow. Now that's cool bubb!


What, I get no props?


----------



## bubb2

smackdaddy said:


> Wow. Now that's cool bubb!


 Now your learning from experience that our friend Ronnie didn't have.


----------



## sailingdog

smackdaddy said:


> Cool - thanks again Dog. Hey, man, you ain't so bad! I mean if you're willing to help _me_ out - you must have some heart.


Nah, I just take pity on some fools... 



> Okay, one more hypothetical and I'll leave you alone....
> 
> Tlller. Stock shears at the collar. Stock is still there but too far down in the tube to "grab" onto. Screwed?
> 
> [Start the clock.]
> 
> And for the bonus round, let's throw in one more complication: At the very moment of shear, you're just at the mouth of the marina where you are picking up two topless Norwegian ladies who want to film a documentary of your voyage. They're watching closely to see what happens. What do you do now?


Depends on the boat. On my boat, I could probably rig a line to the rudder to allow me to steer it... That is the case with many boats with a transom mounted rudder. Drill a small hole in the aft edge of the rudder blade and attach two lines to it. Steer by using the lines to turn the rudder.

Also, on my boat, the tiller isn't attached to the rudder stock or quadrant... it's connected via a set of mechanical linkages...so even if the tiller head snaps off, I could probably jury rig something directly to the quadrant in the rudder trunk compartment and run the lines up to the cockpit via one of the cockpit lockers. 



T34C said:


> *...this actually was part of Ken Barnes's problem, is that if the wheel is damaged/bent, it can often prevent you from being able to turn the rudder. In a case like that, you'd have to disconnect the wheel steering before you could use the emergency tiller.*
> 
> Not totally accurate. You COULD disconect the wheel steering, or you could remove the wheel, or you could cut the bent section of the wheel off. (You do carry a hacksaw and/or bolt cutters right?) Ken Barnes problem wasn't mechanical, it was that he was stupid.


Yes, he could have removed the wheel or cut the bent section of wheel off... but this is Ken Barnes we are talking about... 

BTW, don't carry bolt cutters on my boat, but don't have a wheel either.


----------



## bubb2

sailortjk1 said:


> What, I get no props?


Props to my friend!!!!! Great minds think alike.


----------



## smackdaddy

sailortjk1 said:


> What, I get no props?


Dude, you're slinging a bucket and plywood around - and sawing the furniture in half. What would the neighbors think?

Just kidding. Honestly, this kind of thing is what I'd probably resort to. I just wondered about the "technically correct" way of doing it.


----------



## smackdaddy

Dog - that's funny. I was actually wondering about the line through the aft edge of the rudder thing. I like that. Makes a lot of sense.

Now none of these options sound pleasant in screaming conditions - but I suppose you steer with sail until things calm down enough where you can start throwing the tools around.

So - for passage prep, seems like having 3 or so solid back up options for steering is what you're shooting for?


----------



## bubb2

One more point to all of this is if you are in big waves and big wind, you need to get steerage back on the boat ASAP. If I lost the rudder, for any reason, and could not see a fix quickly. I would move to plan B and get warps out over the stern to get bow pointed to windward or to start running with the wind. You don't have time to screw with things before you get broached or worst.


----------



## T34C

smackdaddy said:


> Oh boy, here we go again.


What again???? Please don't tell me I need to read that whole BFS Proponent.... thing!

Dog- Love the idea of drilling a hole in the trailing edge of rudder and attaching two lines. Would probably work on a lot of boats even without the rudder being transom mounted.


----------



## sailingdog

It would, but if you haven't drilled the hole before setting out... _*doing it on a rudder that is mounted under the boat is a bit problematic. *_ On many transom-mounted rudders, you could drill them with the boat still in the water. 



T34C said:


> What again???? Please don't tell me I need to read that whole BFS Proponent.... thing!
> 
> Dog- Love the idea of drilling a hole in the trailing edge of rudder and attaching two lines. Would probably work on a lot of boats even without the rudder being transom mounted.


----------



## smackdaddy

What's the difference between a "warp" and a "drogue"? (and a bucket)

(This is an actual question, Painkiller, not the set up for a punch-line. Although, I would like to hear your punch-line if you please.)


----------



## bubb2

Smack if I may, why do you try to encourage people to set off on voyages with same knowledge that you have as evidenced by your last question. By the way, the warp is the line you tow the drogue with.


----------



## smackdaddy

I don't. Thanks for the answer.


----------



## sailingdog

A warp can also be any line that is lead off the stern of a boat to slow it down....often with both ends aboard the boat and just a long bight of rope dragging in the water behind the boat. Usually a warp will be a fairly heavy line—1" is not unusual. 

A drogue is a device or object that is towed behind the boat, on a warp or rode, and designed to slow the boat's forward progress. 

A bucket is what you sit on, to avoid staining your shorts, when you realize you need a drogue and don't have a rode or warp to attach one to the boat with...


----------



## smackdaddy

BTW - another very nice BFS from *sgkuhner* from the Cruising forum:

"Then there is the type of storm conditions we were in when we were sailing around the Cape of Good Hope at the southern end of South Africa in our 30 foot Allied Seawind Ketch back in 1973. The wind was blowing about 50 - 55 kts and the seas were running in excess of 30 feet; so high that when we were in the trough there was no wind; but, when we were on the crest (with about a three to four foot break) all hell was breaking loose. We did not want to heave to for fear of being rolled over because the waves were very steep. The wind was dead astern, so we deployed warps to slow us down and keep us from nosediving into the wave in front of us. At that time I wish we had had a "Gale-rider" by Hathaway Reiser and Raymond. I would not have wanted to turn into the wind to deploy a parachute anchor. We ran like this in the direction we wanted to go for about 18 hours. I don't want to do that again!"

Nice.

(PS - The wording here was why I was wondering about the warp/drogue thing. As well as the act of "warping". A lot of terminology to learn. And thanks Dog - you just cleared it up as well. I'm buying a bucket first thing.)


----------



## sailingdog

BTW a Galerider is a drogue device that looks like an oversized hamper.


----------



## CharlieCobra

One of those might come in handy...


----------



## T34C

sailingdog said:


> It would, but if you haven't drilled the hole before setting out... _*doing it on a rudder that is mounted under the boat is a bit problematic. *_ On many transom-mounted rudders, you could drill them with the boat still in the water.


Great point, but if I ever get around to going cruising off-shore, I'll have a hand drill aboard. BTW- Get some bolt cutters.


----------



## sailingdog

I plan on getting some sort of heavy cutters to carry aboard, but haven't decided what yet. 



T34C said:


> Great point, but if I ever get around to going cruising off-shore, I'll have a hand drill aboard. BTW- Get some bolt cutters.


----------



## T34C

sailingdog said:


> I plan on getting some sort of heavy cutters to carry aboard, but haven't decided what yet.


I think it was Practical Sailor that did a reveiw not too long ago. They found the cheap Husky brand (I think) brand bolt cutters from Home Depot worked as well or better than everything else. ($20-$25) I have used mine several time in non-emergency cases and found they work great. (Mostly when I forget the key to my boat ladder)


----------



## chucklesR

Battery powered saw's all or Dremel is the better choice, though a bolt cutter is probably better for rigging.

Bolt cutters don't fit in all places, Dremels do. I cut through a case hardened 1/2 inch steel lock in less than 5 seconds with mine, bolt cutters would not have fit.

Besides which, you might need the Dremel to shape whats left (flatten it for instance) so a jury rigged connection can get purchase.

A solar panel and a simple inverter insure you never run out of juice.


----------



## CharlieCobra

I have bolt cutters aboard. I don't, however, relish the idea of drilling a hole through my solid mahogany rudder.


----------



## T34C

Dremel not as portable. I was thinking about using on the rigging in emergency. For other things you're probably right.


----------



## sailingdog

Ever hear of combination locks???


T34C said:


> I think it was Practical Sailor that did a reveiw not too long ago. They found the cheap Husky brand (I think) brand bolt cutters from Home Depot worked as well or better than everything else. ($20-$25) I have used mine several time in non-emergency cases and found they work great. (*Mostly when I forget the key to my boat ladder*)


----------



## smackdaddy

Just curious - who around here HAS circumnavigated?


----------



## sailingdog

I know Webb Chiles has chimed in on this forum once or twice... and he's definitely has circumnavigated...  He's also a gentleman of the first class, as I've had the pleasure of meeting him in person.


----------



## T34C

Smacky- You want a BFS, go get Webb Chiles book.

BTW- I have navigated in a circle on MANY occations.


----------



## sailingdog

Anyone who can do most of a circumnavigation in an 18' open Drascombe Lugger _(technically, it was two of them as the manufacturer sent him a second one when his boat was consficated by the Egyptian government) _has got some seriously mad sailing skillz and some big brass ones.



T34C said:


> Smacky- You want a BFS, go get Webb Chiles book.
> 
> BTW- I have navigated in a circle on MANY occations.


----------



## T34C

sailingdog said:


> Anyone who can do most of a circumnavigation in an 18' open Drascombe Lugger _(technically, it was two of them as the manufacturer sent him a second one when his boat was consficated by the Egyptian government) _has got some seriously mad sailing skillz and some big brass ones.


Good thing he survived, else we'd have to say how stupid he was for trying.


----------



## sailingdog

IIRC, his one of his Ericsons, Egregious*, had a crack in the hull and he still managed to round Cape Horn with it. 




*There were two boats named Egregious, one an Ericson 35, the other an Ericson 37.


----------



## T34C

If I recall, that was the same boat that he ordered w/o an engine so he would have fewer things to break, and w/o ANY thru hulls.


----------



## GeorgeB

Haven’t been completely around the block but I’ve been to corner and back – Pacific Cup, several Coastal Cups, numerous Spinnaker and Windjammer cups and three years in the Nor Cal OYRA. Somewhere around 5,000 ocean racing miles (I’ve got a log book somewhere at home). 

Dremel tools don’t work under water – Cable cutters do

If you think a cheapo bolt cutter is the same thing – take a length of ¼ 316 stainless cable down to Home Depot and try it. Cable cutters work a lot better.


----------



## painkiller

smackdaddy said:


> What's the difference between a "warp" and a "drogue"? (and a bucket)
> 
> (This is an actual question, Painkiller, not the set up for a punch-line. Although, I would like to hear your punch-line if you please.)


What, I'm only good for jokes? 

Anyway, to answer your question, when my Irish grandfather used to get warped, he'd speak in a drogue. So you see, there's a causal relationship between the two.


----------



## painkiller

smackdaddy said:


> Just curious - who around here HAS circumnavigated?


I circumnavigated St. Helena Island several times this summer. Once in an inflatable!


----------



## smackdaddy

Pain, dude, that is _so_ LFS.

BTW - nice punch line.


----------



## T34C

GeorgeB said:


> If you think a cheapo bolt cutter is the same thing - take a length of ¼ 316 stainless cable down to Home Depot and try it. Cable cutters work a lot better.


Not what their study found. I personally find the cable cutters don't work as well on larger diameter wire, but I still carry both just to be safe.


----------



## GeorgeB

If that is the case – I’ve circumnavigated Alameda Island in my C34 (they opened four bridges for me to do it!) and my 10’ zodiac. I have also circumnavigated Coast Guard Island in both zodiac and my quarter scale laser (remote control – you try calling “starboard” on a 1:1 scale 40 footer sometime!)

In regards to cable cutters - I've done it and there is no comparison. Bolt cutters tend to chew thier way through, whereas cable cutters cut. I'd be more than happy to sell you a bolt cutter if you think differently (shipping extra).


----------



## tenuki

I circled a hat once when it blew overboard.


----------



## painkiller

I just circled the block looking for a parking spot.


----------



## smackdaddy

Just a heads up to those that are all about BFS. There's some good stuff going on in Heavy Weather Sailing.

Check out BillyR's post on page 2. Then bring home a BFS.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Smack, read "Desperate Voyage" by Caldwell if ya want a BFS. I found it at a used book store, crazy story.


----------



## smackdaddy

Thanks Charlie. Just ordered it.

Okay - so we've talked about sail inventory, general things to go over on the boat itself for prep (haul-out, rudder/steerage, keel, rigging, tackle, lashing down the sandwiches, etc.) - and we've talked about snot gear like warps and drogues, and we've talked about emergency steering techniques. All great stuff.

What _haven't _we covered in terms of the inventory of essential stuff you've GOT to have on board? For example, I've been looking through the auto-helming threads and see many different schools of thought on the types of systems one should have (vane, etc.). What are the thoughts on this? And what are the obvious items still missing from our discussion?

Now, let me qualify these questions:

*None of the above is essential to BFS as defined in this thread.* You can have a BFS in a dinghy on a pond in a stiff breeze if you're starting out. No question.

I've just been intrigued by Ronnie's unfortunate journey - and instead of tearing him down, I'd like to see if we can talk about what one should do to prep for a major passage like that. For example, in a typical haul-out, what's inspected - what's not? What should I be particularly worried about - or not? What's the minimum inventory of big weather gear?

Now - I know everything above depends. It always does. But let's just go over the generalities so we have a starting place.

If there are other threads that you guys know of that cover this, that's cool, I can do the legwork. I'm actually looking anyway - it just takes forever to wade through a lot of it. Man are you guys longwinded.

(PS - Charlie, I just ordered several other books that have been recommended here. I'll have to get my mom to read them to me, but I bet they'll be cool.)


----------



## tommays

I went on ronnie's sight and kind of liked him having two children that age makes it easy to understand him a bit 


BUT getting to gear most of the boats i race on are OLDER get raced HARD up to Bermuda distance 


They ALL get pretty heavy matiance right down to pulling rudders to do bearings because it sucks breaking stuff during a race and things like standing rigging get changed a lot more than a lightly used boat


The saftey stuff required for any ocean race is easy to find in the entry forms and is very compleat 


BUT for example the local second place J44 came apart on the way home after finishing bermuda this year and while they made it home safe it had to be nerve racking seeing the deck lifting off the bulkheads for a few days


----------



## T34C

smackdaddy said:


> I've just been intrigued by Ronnie's unfortunate journey - and instead of tearing him down, I'd like to see if we can talk about what one should do to prep for a major passage like that. For example, in a typical haul-out, what's inspected - what's not? What should I be particularly worried about - or not? What's the minimum inventory of big weather gear?
> 
> Now - I know everything above depends. It always does. But let's just go over the generalities so we have a starting place.
> 
> If there are other threads that you guys know of that cover this, that's cool, I can do the legwork. I'm actually looking anyway - it just takes forever to wade through a lot of it. Man are you guys longwinded.
> 
> (PS - Charlie, I just ordered several other books that have been recommended here. I'll have to get my mom to read them to me, but I bet they'll be cool.)


First thing I'd do is throw Ronnie overboard. So much of sailing is dependent on the sailor. Ronnie couldn't have made that trip if he had been on a new Valiant. The guys a light weight. Frankly smacky- you, right now, are far more prepared for such a journey.


----------



## smackdaddy

Woohoo! I'm leaving for Nova Scotia tomorrow on the 85 YO Chinese Ferrocement Junk I just found. Sweet! Haul-out-schmaul-out.

Seriously, though, had the weather been fine - he could have easily made it. Even an idiot with no clue at all how to sail can do that. At least that's what this newbie has learned lately.

BTW - so now we've got warp, drogue, and Ronnie on our list...is that right?


----------



## T34C

smackdaddy said:


> Woohoo! I'm leaving for Nova Scotia tomorrow on the 85 YO Chinese Ferrocement Junk I just found. Sweet! Haul-out-schmaul-out.
> 
> Seriously, though, had the weather been fine - he could have easily made it. Even an idiot with no clue at all how to sail can do that. At least that's what this newbie has learned lately.
> 
> BTW - so now we've got warp, drogue, and Ronnie on our list...is that right?


Isn't that Warp - yes, Drogue - yes, Ronnie - no?


----------



## smackdaddy

Wait - I thought you were advocating using Ronnie as the drogue. Or was it Jody with his deadly rail-tethering technique. Man, this is confusing.


----------



## T34C

I like it, the new "Ron-drogue"! Sweet, how can we market it?


----------



## smackdaddy

Check with Jeff about placing ads for it in the threads. People won't mind. Surely.

Pain - can you whip something up? This is all I've got:

(Self-edited after pangs of conscience.)


----------



## artbyjody

I hope sailnet does not mind - but I found the ENTIRE Original Advertisement Smack was running in "Bathtub Sailing Times", it was on page 4 next to the article "How to simulate a drogue using a soap on the rope"...

I enclose it now:


----------



## smackdaddy

Something tells me that BFS is up to us southern sailors at this point in time. With these northies settling in for winter, the pickin's are looking slim.

Jody, study Pain's stuff a bit. You've got a lot to learn about funny. BTW - what's the big sail gear inventory on your boat? Besides the BBQ.


----------



## CharlieCobra

I haven't been aboard "Hello Gorgeous" yet but seeing it's an IOR boat that raced, I'd say it's significant, less a #1 if I recall.


----------



## smackdaddy

Charlie can you guys get year round sailing up there? I remember living in Portland it seemed doable - but I wasn't sailing then.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Yep, if ya don't mind rain, gales and the occasional icicle hanging off yer ass. I sailed Oh Joy all last Winter. I recall one sunny day when it was 34F and blowing 25+. I got cold after sundown, real cold.


----------



## artbyjody

smackdaddy said:


> BTW - what's the big sail gear inventory on your boat? Besides the BBQ.


We can sail all year up here usually just have to have the right foul weather gear onboard..

Big sail inventory - Code 2A, 4A, Code 1-5 S, blooper, storm, 155 genoa...

Pretty much a sail for every condition. Code 0 is will be on purchase in a month or so as well as new carbon main and genny.

Besides both BBQs she also has 18 auto inflatable PFDs fully decked with whistles, mirrors, strobes etc , mast mounted Epirb, 2 PLIRBs, Raymarine Lifetag MOB system, Dual E-120 displays, backup C-70, 3 lifeslings (2 Type II - 1 - type III), MOB pole, 5:1 man overboard hoist, and all the regular VHF etc - equipped is an understatement because the safety stuff I take pretty seriously and spare no expense on it.


----------



## smackdaddy

Wow. That's actually impressive, dude. I take back everything I've ever said about you - except for the funny stuff.

Two BBQs. I had no idea.


----------



## smackdaddy

CharlieCobra said:


> Yep, if ya don't mind rain, gales and the occasional icicle hanging off yer ass. I sailed Oh Joy all last Winter. I recall one sunny day when it was 34F and blowing 25+. I got cold after sundown, real cold.


No thanks dude. I'm not into the asscicle thing. But I've nothin' but admiration for you guys. That's serious sailing, man.


----------



## T34C

CharlieCobra said:


> Yep, if ya don't mind rain, gales and the occasional icicle hanging off yer ass. I sailed Oh Joy all last Winter. I recall one sunny day when it was 34F and blowing 25+. I got cold after sundown, real cold.


You are kidding, right??? Sounds perfectly balmy.


----------



## blt2ski

Great place to sail up here, in the winter, you sail during the day, 60 min later you can be at the largest lit ski area in the US of A. Summer, golf in AM when there is no wind, about 2pm the northerlies kickin for the evening untill about an hr before sunset........what more can you ask for!

Winds 10-125 tomorrow out of the south, same for sat, not sure about sunday yet. Jody better be ready!:B we're on my boat the next three days of racing. 

I've been on HG, but not sailed on her as of yet.

marty


----------



## smackdaddy

blt2ski said:


> Great place to sail up here, in the winter, you sail during the day, 60 min later you can be at the largest lit ski area in the US of A. Summer, golf in AM when there is no wind, about 2pm the northerlies kickin for the evening untill about an hr before sunset........what more can you ask for!
> 
> Winds 10-125 tomorrow out of the south, same for sat, not sure about sunday yet. Jody better be ready!:B we're on my boat the next three days of racing.
> 
> I've been on HG, but not sailed on her as of yet.
> 
> marty


Bluto! 10-125 Knots!!!!! Dude, take pictures! This I gotta see!

PNW is a beautiful place. I just couldn't handle the rain. I'll never forget the first time I landed in Portland to find a place to live - the taxi driver said "Welcome to Portland, suicide capitol of the world." I could barely understand her due to the garden hose from the tail pipe taped to her mouth, but it was all good.

Have a great BFS, dude. I'm headed out this weekend as well.


----------



## blt2ski

I'll be taken pics, of jody getting keel hauled as he drags my spin in the water behind us! yep, yes sirree! should be fun! 

should be 10-15 knots, I think........ouch........note to self, do not think, hurts/pulls brain muscles! anyway, should be a good sailing day, sunday IIRC, the forcast is up to 20, maybe even late sat. 

Marty


----------



## chall03

I know I'm late coming in on this, but Sailingdog and all thanks for the advice earlier on emergency steering alternatives, as a relative newbie especially offshore I learnt ALOT. Maybe it will be the difference that stops me ever or someone else here ending up a Ronnie...


----------



## sailingdog

You're welcome...  we try to prevent people from ending up like Ronnie.


----------



## smackdaddy

First thing to remember, Chall: Chunk your EPIRB over the side. Sail like a man!

Okay - so who's gonna pull BFS this weekend? Anyone down under going big? It's your time to shine fellas!

Also, anyone heard from DuckDuckGoose? She's all about the big. Cool chick that one.

In the mean time, I'll try to think up some more hypothetical emergencies to see if we can Stump The Dog.


----------



## chall03

For what it's worth I don't actually have an EPIRB! And sadly no BFS here this weekend on account of me being in Melbourne for work and the boat being in Sydney...I have a few BFS's in the planning however.


----------



## smackdaddy

Don't work too hard. Melbourne's a very cool city in my opinion. I was there on business a year ago. Had to stay on the river front - but was very impressed. Hope to make it to Sydney some day.

Sail soon.


----------



## Giulietta

Smacky ...you really need to hire a PR expert....

Listen, man..I really don't think you understood them....nothing wrong with BFS...but to do BFS within your limits is good...to do it and spread the dominoes all over the floor is not....

That is what they are refering to...

Anyway..look here bellow...3 very small people, doing what for them was a BFS...they did it on their own, no interference from me, and sailed my boat a whole 150 miles, in 1.5 days... really..that was BFS for them,

To me, it was boring, and not that BFS..our preceptions of what is BFS varies, because we all have different levels of experience...and what may be a BFS for my wife, may not be for me...for her, when we sail hard, she stays away...it's outside her skills, its a gigantic BFS...

but if I was going to set sail and sail on purpose in any condition that is beyond my skill, and the limit of my boat, is no longer a BFS, it's a freightfull expereince and above all may break my boat and eventually possibly killing me...

This to say...BFS has sub-levels..from smal BFS to gigantic BFS...once you endanger any integrity..it's no longer inside the BFS..it's stupidity....

The edge of BFS walks parallel with the edge of one's expereince..hence the comments about the guy in the "anti-BFS" thread...simply by being outside "his BFS envelope"..he was no longer doing a fun thing, but a life threatening deal...it's hard to explain...

Look bellow...you call that BFS??? they did...

http://i125.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid125.photobucket.com/albums/p61/giuliettacsc/saillesson2.flv


----------



## smackdaddy

Giu - I am in TOTAL agreement with EVERYTHING you just said. And I am being completely serious here. What you said mirrors my OP in this thread. So you'll never get an argument from me. You nailed it.

And you have to remember I've never been the one to call someone else's BFS - non-BFS. Quite the other way around.

Great video and great BFS guys. No doubt!

BTW - as for the PR, I'm just kind of like the Mickey Rourke of Sailnet. Good PR, bad PR - it's all PR. Ever see "Barfly"? 

"Drinks for all my friends!"


----------



## blt2ski

Then for some of us, ie today and the end of yesterday, a BFS could be trying to keep the boat moving in 1-2 knots of wind with out turning the motor on to finish a race! Unlike the race a few weeks back with it blowing in the 30 knot range!

Oh well, life goes on! there is always tomorrow, as long as you wake up, and the sun comes up, it's going to be a good day!

Marty
aka "bluto" now?


----------



## smackdaddy

That's funny Bluto - exactly the same here! We had maybe 7 steady as the sun was setting. And it had been blowing 20 on Thursday and Friday. Ouch. A nice LFS nonetheless. I actually practiced what some of the guys around here mentioned - that is trimming the sails to maximize speed. We were cranking. Ran down a Scarab. Just freakin' creamed 'em. Must have been all that Sailor Jerry's I was tipping.


----------



## craigtoo

smackdaddy said:


> Ran down a Scarab. Just freakin' creamed 'em. Must have been all that Sailor Jerry's I was tipping.


:laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher

ABhaahahhahahahaaa


----------



## blt2ski

Today was a different story, winds in the 18-25 range. Decided not to race, as I really would like a min of 5 to do the type of racing today, 6 would make things in this wind sooooo easy, 4 of us, not quite! 

Anyway, so 3 of us sailed north home, with the above following winds. SOW guage showed a high of 9.44 on the way home, not bad for a 30'r with a main and 155 up! mid 6's to mid 7's were common on the knotmeter. Hull speed is 6.6, so a good day going home with three of us. 

New top speed for the boat with me in control or "out of control" as daughter would say! Was mid 8's, low 7's for original owner. Not a bad day!

marty


----------



## smackdaddy

Bluto - man am I jealous! Of course, I can sail out of control with 5 knots of wind - so I'm not THAT impressed. Seriously, nice BFS, dude.

Hey, BTW, go over to the "Learning to Sail" forum and help the newbie out on his reefing question in his "Wrangling the Girl" post. Sounds like he had a BFS of his own today. Hurry, before Dog tells him to search Sailnet for the answer!


----------



## sww914

My buddy and I were partners on a Nacra 5.2 cat. 2 crazy surfers that had a penchant for big waves looking for something exciting to do when the wind picked up. We had borrowed beach cats for the Wet Wendsday evening cat races in Morro Bay several times and were undefeated, usually the field was 3-6 boats, all in it for the fun.
Sailing inside the bay was plenty exciting. Usually 15-25 knot winds, a nasty current of 2-4 knots mid-tide in the spring & fall, and a bay full of moored boats and mud banks to try to avoid. We'd flipped the cats plenty of times and were comfortable in a lot of wind and with the boat upside down.
One beautiful fall afternoon after a storm there was some good 20-25 knot post-frontal wind as we guessed it and a nice round 6-8 foot swell and we decided to gear up and head outside the bay. 
The harbor entrance to Morro Bay is dominated by a very large rock, called "The Rock". It's really called Morro Rock, Morro is rock in Spanish, so translated it's rock rock. You can see why we call it the rock.
The Rock is almost 400 feet high and probably 600-800 feet in diameter IIRC and immediately adjacent to the channel so it has a dramatic affect on the wind. You can go from a 2-3 knot wind in it's shadow to 30 or more in an instant. We got knocked down by one of those on our way out of the harbor, SOP.
We blew past the entrance buoy at a good clip and trapeezed out, flying a hull close hauled. We wanted to head upwind at first to ensure an easy downwind leg (drift?) if something bad happened. The wind was clean and strong and the swell was big and rolly. We tacked upwind several times not too far from the beach feeling like we would be more comfortable swimming through 8-10 foot waves than we were far out in the ocean. After we had bombed uphill for a couple miles we tried a broad reach. OH MY! We were really flying. I mean fast. We hadn't been out in waves but a couple of times in small 3-4 foot stuff but this was different. Our boat was throwing a rooster tail off of the back of the lee hull and we were getting the boat completely out of the water off of the top of the waves from time to time. After we launched off of a wave the bows would pierce the top of the next wave and the trampoline would be completely awash. One time we bashed through the top of the second wave and a 2' albacore washed across the top of the trampoline, it's tail vibrating and about a billion times a second. 
As we buried the bows or even the whole boat in an approaching wave sometimes the impact would be violent enough to just about stop the boat, sending us flying around like tether balls. Once I was thrown completely off in front of the boat and as the boat raced over the top of me I saw that my friend was on his back scrambling around trying to get a hold of something and not succeeding. I saw the mainsheet coming past me in the water and I grabbed it as it went by. The boat was going fast and my friend was falling off so I held on to the mainsheet. I didn't want to swim a 1/4 mile to the boat. He fell off and I held on, the main sheeted in and the boat flipped. We swam over to it and got it upright quickly, the water is always cold enough to motivate you around here.
We tacked upwind some more, almost to the next town up the beach and then we decided to head back. On another broad reach we were really moving and Morgan checked the GPS (the only thing onboard besides us) and it said that we were going 31.1 MPH. WOW! That's fast. We were heading almost the same direction as the waves and we were mostly rolling slowly in relation to them. They were high enough that there was quite a bit less wind between them than on top of them. 
As we crested one wave, trapeezed out and flying a hull, a small seal broached out of the water and towards the boat. It hit us amidships and the starboard shroud caught it right in the neck. It got stuck on the boat for a second or two and we could see that it was dead, broken neck. That pretty much killed the mood for us and we headed back in to the harbor.
We looked at the GPS after we put the boat away, we traveled almost 20 miles in 55 minutes and our top speed was 32.5 MPH. Sorry, no knots on that GPS.
Good times!


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## smackdaddy

sww, welcome! 

And very nice BFS dude! I'm thinking you should name your boat "Greenpeace". Murdering seals and netting tuna - shouldn't be long before you guys are zodiac-ed and boarded by stinky, mad hippies. Also, you ought to have a wake board handy. When you do the MOB/main-sheet grab, you can take the opportunity to throw some nice raleys, tantrums and whirleys off that swell. Maybe even take out a dolphin!

Knots or miles - you guys were shredding. Have you pitch-poled that thing yet?


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## CharlieCobra

Nothing quite like a Beach Cat in a stiff breeze if your stones are big enough for the ride. Shame about the seal though.


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## sww914

I haven't seen that boat for 5-6 years. We had it parked on an oyster shell beach in the bay for a couple of years and everything was fine for quite a while but 3-4 years ago somebody stole everything off of the boat that would come loose. mast, boom, every shackle, trampoline, everything but the hulls and crossbars.
I gave up boating for quite a while not too long after that BFS day. I was living aboard a 40' tri with my wife and son and we took my son to Cedars-Sinai to have a ENT that specializes in dwarves (my son has achondroplasia) to have his tonsils removed. He came out to the recovery room way too soon and he had a tracheostomy. The Dr said move off of the boat. If he hits the water he's dead with a trach, so we did just that.
Tracheostomy, now that was a BFS! More storms than you can imagine, we sailed through dozens of hurricanes on that one.
Now it's 9 years later, the kid is good and he's begging to live aboard again.
Here's a pic of my crazy kid at Ripley's in Key West last June next to a model of some formerly world's tallest dude. You can just see the scar on his neck.


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## smackdaddy

sww - awesome. He must be a freakin' tiger, that kid. Definitely BFS. And he's lucky to have a crazy surfer/sailor-dude-dad like you. 

As for the boat - I just saw on Greenpeace's website where they are still auctioning off cat parts to raise funds for a new zodiac. Hmmmm.

Good to have you, man.


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## sww914

Thanks, It's good to be back sailing.
Greenpeace is wacky, I believe it.


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## CalebD

'Barfly' was an iconic Mickey Rourke movie and I am almost blown away that you saw it and liked it SlapDiddy! I think that you have dated yourself a bit by this comment though. 
Let me see, I saw this movie about 20 years ago so you are probably in the age group of 30-50. Your writing and manic style of hosting threads here suggests obsessive compulsive disorder which suggests to me that you are younger than me (not sure why). The OCD suggests that you are a management consultant or in a salesman of some kind, perhaps even an IT sailnutter. I am guessing you have an MBA or always wanted to get one.
So how close is the 50 y.o. cat boy hitting close to home? I am not a psychologist or a fortune teller but I bet that I am about half right.
ssw914, 
The seal's death was unfortunate but you did not have much choice now, did you? Had you taken it for it's skin and meat like the Esquimos then Greenpiece would not be pissed. Too bad about that but great story and glad your son is on solid ground wanting to get back on board.
Carry on.


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## sww914

I made slippers out of it's skin and gave them to my vegetarian sister.


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## smackdaddy

sww - You got it goin' on, dude. Sweet retort.

Caleb - we had to watch it in film class - along with all of David Lynch's crap from the '80s. Man you geezers were twisted. Speaking of OCD - I ain't Surfesq - for the 1,000th time. Now will you please let it go? Are you still going to bill me for the therapy session?

PS - I'd consider myself more "obsessive-impulsive". You know, the kind of guy that buys a really old sailboat on impluse, then spends the rest of his life obsessively working on it and learning to sail it. I figure I'm in a "safe place" here. Heh-heh.


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## blt2ski

Yes smack, we are going to bill you for the therapy session, as you have the ages ALL wrong. it goes like this........

0-12 you learn all you need to know about life
13-19, you know everything, so we need to hire you at that time!
20-29 you realize you do NOT know everything, and parents are smarter than you thought
30-39 most of us get old, as in we have kids in the 0-12 range
40-49, we;re really OLD, as we have teenagers in the house to tell us what we do not know
50-59 you get to live again, as them twenty somethings are appoligizing for there friggen teen yrs, and telling you how smart you are
60-69 are the golden years
70-79 you;re an old phart
80-89 a really old phart
90-99 are the depends yrs, ie do you need them or not!

That'll be $1 boat unit, please pay at the receptionist at the door. If you leave without paying, we know 55+ different countries worth of Guido's to hunt, chase and mangle you bringing you back for justice!

marty


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## camaraderie

marty...another "version" from Billy Crystal in City Slickers:

When you're a teenager you think you can do anything, and you do. Your twenties are a blur. Your thirties, you raise your family, you make a little money and you think to yourself, "What happended to my twenties?" Your forties, you grow a little pot belly you grow another chin. The music starts to get too loud and one of your old girlfriends from highschool becomes a grandmother. Your fifties you have a minor surgery. You'll call it a procedure, but it's a surgery. Your sixties you have a major surgery, the music is still loud but it doesn't matter because you can't hear it anyway. Seventies, you and the wife retire to Fort Lauderdale, you start eating dinner at two, lunch around ten, breakfast the night before. And you spend most of your time wandering around malls looking for the ultimate in soft yogurt and muttering "how come the kids don't call?" By your eighties, you've had a major stroke, and you end up babbling to some Jamaican nurse who your wife can't stand but who you call mama. Any questions?


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## blt2ski

LOL Cam!:laugher:laugher:laugher

Kinda like last yr I needed an eye exam, a client was complaining about some things too, mentioned the eye exam, and she asked how old I was, she said I was yrs too late! I missed the one on my 40th bday that was scheduled the day I was born! This is from an eighty something lady! She is a hoot!


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## Giulietta

Smack...here is a genuine BFS for you...it's a shame you can't speak Portuguese, but this guy is sailing around the World now, his second trip, this one the other way around, in a Bavaria 36!!!!

See here, translate some on google or whatecver and see..this is true real BFS..and he is not being sponsored other than a few electronics he was given, and some local comunities...he is doing it alone...

GENUINO MADRUGA


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## smackdaddy

Giu,

I took a look at the website and tried the Google translation. Here's an actual sample of what I got:

"Impact gives 1st hair world voyage"

Something tells me that's not quite right. It's almost like Google doesn't think Portuguese is a real language. You might want to have a word with Larry and Sergey.


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## CharlieCobra

That's real strange. I could actually understand quite a bit of what was written, with big gaps of course, but more than I thought I might.


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## smackdaddy

Yeah - Charlie, it was my bad. I was trying the translation from Early Latin to English. Oops. Just saw an opportunity to try to get Giu to do a Photoshop job on the founders of Google.


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## smackdaddy

Here's another great BFS from _WheresTheBrakes_ over in the "Learning to Sail" thread. Taken without permission:

"went out yesterday with the guy that i own the boat with (Tab), my wife and my sister... all of whom question my sailing skills.. 
we had a great day, 70F and 6-8knts...
we sailed for around 5 hours and had a great time...

So good in fact, Tab and I decided we would go out again today, because he doesnt get alot of time off work..

went out without the girls around 11AM and there was no wind.. 
we went putzing around with the motor to look at the channel and head closer to the bouy near the ocean.. 
around 1230 there was still no wind and we decided to head back in.. 
as we started to go back the wind increased (we had the sails up) to 5 then 10 then around 15..

we tore up and down the bay, and tacked and jibed many times, pretending to tack and "round a mark" in a race....

we had her heeled over about 25-30 degrees, and got to experience her heading up into the wind when we went too far over..

what a fantastic day.. "

That's BFS, baby!


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## smackdaddy

A supa-sweet sail today! Steady 15 knots with gusts up to 23, clear skies, insanely nice, fall weather. Fully canvassed, Jolly Roger flappin', and we were honkin'! We were sailing so fast I started speaking Portuguese!

Seriously, I had my iPhone's GPS app running - and it showed 13 knots a couple of times. I mean, there's no way in hell we broke 7 in a C27, surely (the iPhone app sucks), but I really wish I had taken a picture of it (would have needed another phone). Sure would have been fun to show that to you, Giu!

I feel like I'm starting to the get the hang of this. Much better balance on the sails than ever before - far less weather helm. What an incredible life this sailing thing is!

Topped it off with a crazy sunset and rum back at the slip. Yeah. baby!

What a great BFS! I LOVE this stuff! Just had to share.

Who else pulled down a sweet sail this weekend?


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## smackdaddy

Hey - another BFS question for you guys...in reading "Heavy Weather Sailing" they go into a pretty detailed discussion of drogues versus parachutes - and the pros and cons between the two. They seem to advocate the parachute technique off the bow (either directly into the oncoming seas - or 15-20 degrees off using a bridle as the Pardys do) - VERSUS the warp/drogue approach (stern-to-seas) as the safest way to ride out a storm.

Would you guys concur with that bow-on parachute approach (especially those of you who've actually tried both)? I'm curious about this because I remember Skip Allen's trip where he was using a drogue and was very worried about getting his hatchboards blown out (and was getting repeatedly pooped) - and I wondered by he wouldn't have gone bow-to-seas. Just curious.


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## sww914

I got in a shakedown sail in my new to me (free) Flying Scott. It was blowing pretty good, 15-20 with bigger gusts. My wife has sailed like twice before and my son 3-4 times since he can remember. It was a bit too much for them and I should have waited until a nicer day but I consulted a good friend and he said "when in doubt, sail."
I haven't piloted a sailboat in about 9 years but everything went well. We were really screaming along, we passed everything in the bay.
I would have reefed down but none of the 3 mains that the boat came with have a reef point so we dipped the rail quite a bit. I was shocked to learn that under pressure I still remember the names of everything, but it doesn't really help if your crew doesn't know the names as well. 
I sounded like Don Vito sometimes trying to think of another name for a halyard.
AHH DDDUUUH Duh the DUHH Duhh line there on the DH DUH mast thingy there.


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## smackdaddy

Reef-schmeef, dude, that sounds like a sweet BFS, sww! I saw a couple of boats today with a reef in the main - but I just couldn't do it! It was TOO FREAKIN' FUN!

Another 5 knots and I'm sure I would have changed my mind. And don't worry about the kid - he will pick it up. I have 2 young boys myself and it's so cool when the older one is at the helm and I tell him to turn to port, or grab a sheet, or halyard - and see him do it. Hell, I don't even know what that stuff is, I'm just readin' it off of Sailnet!

BTW - a free boat always sails better doesn't it! Did you know CharlieCobra got "Oh Joy" for $20? You guys must be livin' charmed lives!


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## CharlieCobra

Nice sailing guys. Yeah smack, it does get easier as ya go along and just when you think you have it all figured out, along comes conditions that make you wonder about that. Me? I ran around buying the last tools needed to finish the Chevelle. After 18 months of messing with it, it's time to get it done. I won't be doing much else than keeping Oh Joy's bilges dry until I move her to the barn.


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## farmboy

*down the rail*



smackdaddy said:


> Who else pulled down a sweet sail this weekend?


Considering the boat is in the barn and its snowing out, not much came out of this weekend. However, I did just get this pic scanned in. My girl snapped this one on a particularly sweet tack late this season.


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## smackdaddy

Farmboy - that's a tear-jerker dude. Just beautiful. Hard sailing is SOOOOOOO much better than politics. It's just plain transcendent!

B.....F......S!

Charlie - I hear you. I'm just waiting for my next humbling. A Chevelle AND "Oh Joy" - I definitely admire your appetite. What have you heard from Ccam lately?


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## CharlieCobra

Nada, I don't expect to hear from him until Cabo or after he's sobered up at least.


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## smackdaddy

He'll probably hate me for doing it since he's a modest salt, and because it might not have been that big a deal to him - but I just can't help it! This was an unmitigated BFS related in another thread and definitely needs to be part of the lore:



GeorgeB said:


> </O
> 
> Oddly enough, last weekend I did a bit of heavy weather sailing myself, albeit perhaps not to the BFS standards. We were transiting south from Drake's Bay to San Francisco in 27-35 knot winds, seas averaging 15 feet with a two foot wind wave. What made it really snotty was the wave period was only 12 seconds and the amplitude 7.4 (anything over 7 is breaking seas). I can tell you running is a hell of a lot easier than beating through it. (We originally wanted to go through the Bonita Channel. But when we saw some really big breakers inside the channel, we opted to claw our way off shore and then go around the Potato Patch and come in through the main shipping channel - who knew it would be breaking there too.) We were sailing in a C36MkII which performed flawlessly, even when we fell off a wave or two. I was able to steer out of several broach situations. We flooded the cockpit once when a wave broke directly above us and had other numerous close calls. We surfed the heck out of a bunch of waves and broke the 10 knot threshold multiple times and once hit 15 when we came off of a particularly big and nasty wave. We made the 40NM passage in a little over five hours which placed our average speed for the day to around hull speed. I've got a couple of photos of our buddy boat, another C36 from earlier in the day but my skills as a digital photographer are some what lacking. Most of the shots are just the masthead sticking out of the wave.


You're the man, George.


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## CalebD

I was driving along today in Brooklyn, NY when I saw one of those stupid white ellipses with the letters "BFS" in it. I had to get closer and sure enough the writing around the rim indicated that it was from the "Brooklyn Friends School" and not from Big Friggin' Sails. 
As long as we are on the topic of those silly white ellipses I have seen one that says "BFD" and when upon close inspection it indicated the "Bedford Fire Department" as opposed to "Big Friggin' Deal".
Sailing is nearly over here until spring.
Enjoy your best sailing season SnipDiddy!


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## sww914

Are there any graphics dudes on board who can slice out some cool BFS stickers? I'd sport one with pride.


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## smackdaddy

SWW - great idea. I'll get on that.

Caleb - this is my first. It ain't gonna be my best.


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## JohnRPollard

Wow, GeorgeB, very impressive sailing!!

Tame compared to George's conditions, but we had some good sailing this past weekend on the Chesapeake. If I have time I might post a trip report...


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## bubb2

John thanks for the Picture. There are some boats that just cut the water better than others and Pacific Seacraft is one of those boats!


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## smackdaddy

sww914 said:


> Are there any graphics dudes on board who can slice out some cool BFS stickers? I'd sport one with pride.


I'll have the BFS stickers (and other tasteless crap) ready for you in the next few days. I figured I needed to set up a BFS Shop to bring all the dysfunctional mayhem we love about this place to the masses. Hell, when it's ready, I'll even advertise it on Sailnet to give love where it's due. This could be fun.

Stay tuned.


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## smackdaddy

dell30rb said:


> I'm glad I saw this thread! I went out Saturday afternoon in my pearson coaster. Saw about 25 sustained and max of around 30. It sure was gusty. Got water up to the coaming more than once due to a strong gust. Real wet ride too, no dodger on the boat yet. Had to eventually put two reefs in the main and roll the 135 up a bit.
> 
> Went out sunday around noon in the beneteau 423 and saw a little stronger winds. I saw one gust shoot the anemometer to *37.4* apparent on a beam reach. No kidding. Even hit 9 kts GPS speed once, which is really fast for that boat (shallow draft version).
> 
> FYI I started both trips at my house on indian creek... and went out for a little while in fleets bay, then cruised out to the ships channel in the middle and back into indian creek.


Okay - so this is the last BFS I'll steal from other threads. dell30rb definitely pulled one down as evidenced in the photos above. Freakin' awesome. Especially given the fact that he did it in two separate boats. Kind of like taking out the Maserati one morning, then the Bentley the next. Like freakin' Leno.

Anyway BFS.

From here on, if a respectable sailor's gonna pull down a BFS - said sailor needs to have the "temerity" to throw down said BFS thereafter. I can't keep doing all the heavy lifting here. This modesty thing is a serious buzz kill.


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## blt2ski

Don't remember, did this shot get posted on this thread from the FWB finish a month or so ago? I know we talked about the race and the 30-40 knot winds.....










Marty


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## CharlieCobra

Which shot? I don't see nothin'.


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## Cope44

*BFS in print*

I just picked up a copy of "Heavy weather sailing" by K. Adlaed Coles and John de Graff.

I figured you folks would enjoy it.


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## smackdaddy

Just finished reading my own copy of HWS (6th Edition - by Peter Bruce). You'll love it. It is what it's all about, dude.

Now it's on to my signed copy of "The Proving Ground" (I had the Bruces mixed up - hence the edit). Some sick sailing that!


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## blt2ski

Charlie, 

The pic shows on my puter, but you're probably looking at a puter at the Lazy B, and they probably do not allow pics to show?!?!?!?!

marty


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## smackdaddy

Bluto - just looks like the link is gacked. What are you workin' at a Dude Ranch now?


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## blt2ski

Well, not sure why that photo is not working for you folks, it works for me!?!?!?!?!

Anyway, fish pics of foulweather bluff, i'm the 2nd from top on left hand side. Plus many others finishing in 30'ish knots of wind.

marty


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## erps

Wow! They finished in alphabetical order!


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## smackdaddy

Very cool pics bluto. Looks like a big day out there, dude. It always does my heart good to see so much canvass up in 30+.

I have to say my favorite boat is "Bob". Looks like a lousy fighter after a hard 5 rounds. Dirty sails, etc. Very cool. Or were those Somali pirates chasing you guys around? 

Also "Carol Jean" - was she knocked down? Or just sliding into home like Giu got his boat to do in that killer photo of his?

Great stuff.


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## blt2ski

Not sure if Bob's sails are dirty, or if the jib looks like a North kevlar and possibly a carbon main. Then again whom knows. You did the the tear, or should that be the 2' or so of main sail missing on White Cloud? Also Dejodenda's Kyrie is in there.

I do not think Carol Jean was knocked down at that time. I did not hear about Mel getting knocked down. I do know his engine would not start, and had to sail out in front of the marina until a tow could get him in. Euphoria's outboard quit just about 100 yd if that before her slip, I towed her to with in 2-3' of rope being handed off to folks on a dock, and a wind pushed her and almost myself into the rock breakwater. Finally got the marina to bring a power boat over to pull Euphoria off the break water. That was the worst part of the day for me, almost but not quite!

My wife whom was on committee boat where those pics were taken from, did say a couple of the bigger boats either got knocked down, or were heeled over so far when close together at the finish that some rigging got caught. Lady Bug rounded up at a far corner and hit another boat. She came in with damage to the bow. Fun day needless to say..........

I am pretty sure this set was posted too, but maybe not on this thread. damage pics


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## smackdaddy

Okay - after careful analysis of BFS (clicked through a couple of pages as I was taking my last swig of leftover warm beer this morning) - I have broken down the global BFS scoring data as follows (scale of 1-10):

Westies - 8.83
Easties - 8.12
Gulfies - 2.88
Supernorthies - 7.15
Supersouthies - 5.67
Eurpies - 4.19
Others - 0.46

So it appears at this point in time that the Westies are rockin' the house with BFS. There have been a few good showings from the other groups (shout outs to Dell of the "Easties" and Farmboy of the "Supernorthies") - but all in all, the 2008 BFS Cup is looking like a lock.

Who's the spokesman for the Westies so I'll know where to ship the cup in January?


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## Giulietta

well considering the population demographics here at sailnet (all US and few foreigners), and that appart from me only one or two more Eurpies in here...the rate of Eurpies to USies is 103.000 USies to 10 Eurpies...

I won....I guess


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## smackdaddy

Giu, no kidding. You're carrying the weight of the entire continent AND sub-continent on your shoulders dude. You're like Sarkozy or something! 

I mean, your sails are big, no doubt, but your continent's bigger. You did get some serious early help from DuckDuckGoose in Ireland. But I think she got tired of all the whining and moaning around here and hit the road. And don't forget the point or two from that Turkish guy, BodrumFSail.

So, the Eurpies did pull down a respectable score, but alas, we don't grade on the Bell Curve here. Highest score takes the cup. 

Anyway, don't fret, I totally feel your pain. Just look at us Gulfies. We're pathetic. I think it's only me, PB and CD. I gotta do something about that. I can't keep carrying these guys.


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## blt2ski

The problem daddy, is CD only uses his boat at the dock barbecuing! So you're handicapped right there. So what can I say. 

I was thinking CC as he is out the most, but ABJ did get two knockdowns at FWB. On the other hand, I got a 3rd in that race, no knockdowns, but the rail was in the water on the upwind leg more than I would have liked........

Anyway, would be at work today, but installing a roof top patio in 20-30 MPH winds, rain going sideways......better day to sail than install 18x18 concrete pavings stones on pedastools.

Oh well, always bookwork to do when one owns the business on days like this!

marty


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## smackdaddy

Yeah, I like the idea of CC too. He's solid. And the cup will be something for him to admire while he's taking breaks from gluing "Oh Joy" back together. Also he DOES have the most whacked photo thus far with that fender fly. 'Nuff said.

Your humility is admirable Bluto, but personally I'd have to put you in over ABJ. The point is to ideally push it TO the limit (rail buried) - not past (spreader buried). And anyway, he got a spanking for the whole tether thing. Maybe next year.

As soon as I get the cup in, I'll post the photo.

Keep it up you crazy Westies! And just remember that the scores can change at any moment!

PS - CD work with me here, dude! We've only got one more month to best these chumps! Go sailing for crying out loud!


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## blt2ski

Another SN'r out on the FWB day was David, ie dejodenda. He was sailing with just him and 14 yr old daughter, did pretty well too as I recall. 

Someone else was out up north daysailing for the 2nd or 1st time out in just launched boat.......

anyway, at lest it was not a friggen huricane, learned a few things, next year will get the SJ setup to work, that would have helped bunch over the 110 and double reef, or take down the main next time. have sailed that way with twin sons in similar conditions, along with just a single reefed main. 

anyway, back to attempting to balance biz checkbook!

Marty


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## erps

> Someone else was out up north daysailing for the 2nd or 1st time out in just launched boat.......


That was Stillraining. I'm quite familiar with the waters and conditions he was sailing in and his description was dead on.


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## smackdaddy

*BFS Cup*

I'm liking it. What do you guys think? 15.5" of pure BFS bragging rights. Then we pick next year's group and pass it on - complete with "where in the world is the cup" photos. This could be fun.


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## blt2ski

Ray,

Thanks for the reminder as to whom........

Not sure about that trophy dad, looks to........."ordinary!" you know, if we are going to have a trophy for a BFS sail, it needs to be extraordinary! 

Not that my vote counts.............so take it for what you have now just paid for, ie NOTHING! HEE HEE

marty


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## smackdaddy

C'mon dude, just imagine slamming back a Dark and Stormy outta this thing. It's simple, clean, and mean.

However, I'm definitely open to other ideas. As long as Sailaway doesn't fru-fru it up too much.

And anyway - this one was already taken:


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## blt2ski

you mean we can not steal that one!?!?!?!?! dang it.

Ok, so how abouts an equal similar look! Not that I will win it or anything, but need something out of the ordinary for this award. Ok, back to your regularly scheduled checkbook balancing act! Can't do an ignore, as this is NOT and ignore thread..............


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## artbyjody

Sorry guys - I'll be draggin ya down - you know we go faster with rails out of the water...So, to make up for it I am ordering a 300% Genoa... big enough sail ??:laugher


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## CharlieCobra

Here I sit looking at white horse and striations of foam on the lake out front with it blowing 30+ and me with my boat on the hard. It SUCKS! It'd be FAST out there today for sure.... While that photo was cool, the trip with Fredia on our May cruise and that beam reach across the strait in a clear air Gale was much wilder. Sorry, no pics. The camera was inside and Fredia was too scared to go get it, that and she was getting Mal de Mar when all the way in the cabin. It was nuts! Surfing along the faces of waves on the beam with the Staysail and full Main up in 40 knots of breeze against a 3 knot ebb. We saw 11.8 along one nasty wave and made the trip from San Juan Island to Port Townsend in four hours. Over my shoulder to Starboard and it's all green with froth (on the high side), back to Port and it's a gaping hole. No breaks from the helm cause Fredia couldn't handle it and was too afraid to come off the ladder and out there with me. Damndest sail I ever had and it beat the delivery sail by a mile for adrenaline shots per minute. I kept expecting Oh Joy to trip over her keel at those speeds but she just sliced on through. It was the only time I hollered at Davey Jones since I started sailing.


Yep, bloein' out there:

Weather Conditions for:
Smith Island, WA (SISW1)
Elev: 50 ft; Latitude: 48.32000; Longitude: -122.84000

Current time:	Thu, 20 Nov 13:43 pm (PST)
Most Recent Observation:	Thu, 20 Nov 1:00 pm (PST)
Time	Temp.	Wind	Wind	Sea Level
Direction	Speed	Pressure
(PST)	(f) (mph)	(mb)
20 Nov 1:00 pm	49	SSE	31G36	1011.4
20 Nov 12:00 pm	49	S	32G38	1011.5
20 Nov 11:00 am	49	SSE	45G52	1009.5
20 Nov 10:00 am	51	SSE	46G52	1008.0
20 Nov 9:00 am	51	SSE	26G29	1007.9
20 Nov 8:00 am	51	ESE	24G26	1006.1
20 Nov 7:00 am	53	SE	24G26	1007.4
20 Nov 6:00 am	52	SE	23	1008.4
20 Nov 5:00 am	51	ESE	15G17	1009.6


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## smackdaddy

Ooooohhhh - and the end of the year bar has just been raised! Easties - where are you guys?


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## painkiller

At the bar, man, it's cold out there!


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## smackdaddy

Hey, binge drinking counts for points too. Just not weighted as heavily as the real deal. Don't want you wasted Easties urping in the cup on game day, you know.

Bingeing Freakin' Sailor.


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## blt2ski

Binging ONLY counts when sailing on a BFS day along with the binging! Otherwise, it don't count period! bleeping easties...............


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## CharlieCobra

Hell, if anyone deserves the cup, it's Fredia, my wife, who despite being afraid of big water, held it together on that sail and still had the courage to go forward in that stuff to yank down the Staysail once we got to PT, in the dark! That and she sailed home with me two days later and did radio duty while we joined an SAR for a missing 18 y/o Female diver. Fredia doesn't do radio... Unfortunately, the diver was never found.


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## GeorgeB

And remember: Pics or it didn't happen!








ffice


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## blt2ski

Ahhhhhhhh, Another westie kicks in some more points.............


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## smackdaddy

WHOOOOAAAA! George is definitely uppin' the ante! This in addition to his Drake's Bay throw down on page 67 - he's a contendaaahhhh!

Looks like we're going to have to start a BFS Cup poll - it's really tightening up here.

In any case, you Westies are just freakin' humiliating the rest of the world.


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## CharlieCobra

Nice surfin' swells there George.


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## erps

Three boats ago, I did a lot of sailing in Oct and Nov. I kept the boat at the north end of Camano Island and I used to sail across Saratoga Passage over to Coupville and back when it was really blowing. Once I poked out into Saratoga, I was committed to going all the way across, because it was too darn scary to tack in that weather because I was usually sailing single handed and holding on was all I could do. My son, around four at the time, was usually bungie corded around my waste so I could keep one hand on the tiller and one arm around the winch so we wouldn't fall off. Dad used to go with me now and then. The boat, a Tanzer 7.5 had a set of three lower windows in the hull. They used to go underwater when we were heeled around 60 degrees. This is a picture from one of those trips with dad. Heeled over about 45 degrees by the reading on the compass and by the fact that the window isn't underwater.

I'm a bit of a weenie now. We were out in 30-35 two weekends ago. We had the 140% headsail still on the furler. I didn't pull it out for fear of breaking something. We still made pretty good time motoring with bare poles with the wind.


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## Giulietta

look in front of the mast..that's a wave





































MAKING TOUGH BASTARDS OUT OF THEM...mini BFS









And me sailing in our everyday 103kt winds...full sail..


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## erps

That's a good one! Except I'm pretty sure if it was blowing 103 kts., your trousers would be blown down around you ankles.


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## Bene505

*Long Island Sound last weekend*

I wasn't sure whether to post this or not, until I saw that the west coast had a small lead in the BFS scoring. Rack up some more BFS points for the East Coast. Last weekend 6 Sailnetters and my son sailed in the Long Island sound. The team was:
davidpm
defrich
jdcooper
CalebD
MrWuffles
Bene505​
Kind of like a triple word score in Scrabble, getting half a dozen sailnetters together should count 6x for the scoring.

The wind was really cranking. We reefed and then reefed again, until we ended up with a double reefed main and no jib. (We started the engine to help with steerage then.) Winds were off the nearby north shore of Long Island. With only a mile of fetch, the waves still had some size to them.

Watch the video. It says everything. See davidpm at the helm.

Picasa Web Albums - David - Montauk


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## blt2ski

Quick quick, hit them easteners in the knees! knock them down! i's HOCKEY time! or is the WWF time?!?!?!?! or some such thing. Where is tha Ice skater from portland Or that took out N Kerigan trying to get into the olympics that year, thats whom we need!


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## CharlieCobra

Hell, that looks like a nice easy racing day like this one:





or this one


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## smackdaddy

Bene505 said:


> I wasn't sure whether to post this or not, until I saw that the west coast had a small lead in the BFS scoring. Rack up some more BFS points for the East Coast. Last weekend 6 Sailnetters and my son sailed in the Long Island sound. The team was:
> davidpm
> defrich
> jdcooper
> CalebD
> MrWuffles
> Bene505​
> Kind of like a triple word score in Scrabble, getting half a dozen sailnetters together should count 6x for the scoring.
> 
> The wind was really cranking. We reefed and then reefed again, until we ended up with a double reefed main and no jib. (We started the engine to help with steerage then.) Winds were off the nearby north shore of Long Island. With only a mile of fetch, the waves still had some size to them.
> 
> Watch the video. It says everything. See davidpm at the helm.
> 
> Picasa Web Albums - David - Montauk


Bene - I have to say that looks pretty impressive. Nice sailing Easties. However, I have to deduct 2/10 for the fact that there was no reef in the bimini. I mean c'mon. I do appreciate the fact that you had a lot of canvass up - but when it's the bimini, somethin' just ain't right.


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## smackdaddy

Giu - the notorious Darth Vader shot looks promising (even though you're not tethered which makes one the question the intensity) as does the mast wave shot. The others just look like nice rain showers.

As for the first shot, it does look impressive, but we remember the whole wake slap controversy on your avatar's "buried rail" and, combined with your immaculate photoshop skillz, the judges and I just feel that more scrutiny is in order for the Eurpie contingency.

So, we need some further data here:
-wave heights
-wind speed (true)
-fetch
-duration of blow
-what kind of cigar you were smoking
-why one feels the need to have a humidor on his boat, when, if you think about it, isn't the whole freakin' boat a humidor? How much more humid can it get?
-the kind of wine you were drinking

At the end of the day - your kids definitely pull down a point for the Eurpies. They got it goin' on!


----------



## Bene505

smackdaddy said:


> Bene - I have to say that looks pretty impressive. Nice sailing Easties. However, I have to deduct 2/10 for the fact that there was no reef in the bimini. I mean c'mon. I do appreciate the fact that you had a lot of canvass up - but when it's the bimini, somethin' just ain't right.


Thanks SmackD, it was raining a bunch on that trip. Was very nice to have the bimini. The dodger even more so.

Now repeat after me: Bimini good. Dodger great. Bimini good. Dodger great.

Cheers!


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## Giulietta

Smacky...

OK...see for yourself,

Those pictures were taken in the exact same day the 2 videos bellow were filmed..that's why I took those photos.

That day, the 2 small 470's you see here, were sailing along side us...they stayed inside the bay (where the videos are shot), I went outside, where my photos were taken.

If you look carefully in one of them you can see the blue tanker (you see it behind Fred), and you can see I am to the south of it (shore to the North), and in one of them videos, you can see my main in the far on the left corner. This is real, no MDB..

Have a look for yourself..I don't need to tell you what cigar I smoked...











Now...that is not rain..the rain came later...the conditions are exactly what you saw in the videos..15 foot waves, and around 30 to 35 knots..TRUE..measured by MY ST60, not land stuff, or anything like that.

So you have a term of comparison...about what is what...and what 35 knots and 15 feet waves are.

I don't do MDB...I don't photshop myself...I need not...as you say in the US.money talks BS walks....wanna talk??

The tanker, his bow is up as you see.









now..look to port side, what you just see there, that looks like a flat sea, is actually the back side of the wave that passed us...now look at how much of the coast (mountain) it is covering...









What you call rain


















More than this and we sink....really


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## CharlieCobra

Now the guys on the 470's would qualify for sure.


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## sww914

I am impressed. Nasty even for the tanker!
Good sailing!


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## CharlieCobra

Not exactly extreme but pretty fast for the first FT-10 in the Netherlands.






Not too shabby for a 33' foot 3500# boat eh?


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## Giulietta

Downwind......even cows form Montana sailing on a turd can do it...

It's upwind that men are men and sheep are sheep....

http://i212.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid212.photobucket.com/albums/cc65/giuliettacsc2/JoelandJayme.flv


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## CharlieCobra

Cows from Montana can't hit 22 knots downwind and neither can my boat. Neither plane for shyte. Besides, I didn't see 17-22 upwind there either Alex. Of course, the FT-10 is just a racing toy, no interior to speak of. I showed one to Fredia and she said "You'll be sailing by yourself".


----------



## sailingdog

I think GUU is saying that he has a hard time catching the sheep when he's upwind from them...they can smell him coming. 

Unfortunately, the camera, whether it is video or still, really flattens out the waves... making it very easy to underestimate how big they really were at the time of the video.


----------



## Giulietta

Charlie...That's not what I meant, and you know it well....I didn't say 17-22 upwind...what I meand was that downwind its easy to get big speeds....it's upwind that is hard...besides...the ladies in my boat video, as can be seen, don't look like they are having a bad time, or even tense....unlike the FT crew that looks like they are about to crap their pants..and the rudder guy...how do you say oversteer in Dutch???   maybe he has Parkinson....

Now...that day, on the video, if I am not mistaken...we may have reached 15kts once or twice..we were at 12 most of the day...but for proof...you're just gonna have to call Joel then...he filmed it...


----------



## CharlieCobra

Hell, I WISH I could see 12 knots anywhere other than surfing some big assed wave. I don't know what the Flying Tiger's top upwind speed is, not 12 I'm sure, unless they'll plane a bit upwind. That Tiger's only been over there for a couple of weeks so I can imagine they were scared spitless. The cool thing about the FT-10 is that they were designed as a low cost under 50K club racer and have more than delivered on that premise. You could buy one with sails and all for 40K when they first came out 18 months ago.

Bob Perry's gonna be working on a FT-13.8 which oughta knock the socks off the SC-37 for under 200K. Looking forward to seeing it.

Nobody said your boat wasn't fast, least of all me. I'm still looking forward to coming over for a ride someday.


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## GeorgeB

You know that its rough when Alex puts his two best helmsmen on the wheel!

Mighty fine looking crew there. A pair of real Jack Tars they are!


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## CharlieCobra

cardiacpaul said:


> Somebody around here said something like.
> "You know, if that Bob Perry guy keeps at it, he might just design a decent boat one day".
> God, I want one... that ,or his new one, the one built in the PNW, now out of china? gimme strength, where the hells thecuban, she'll hold me back.


Paul, the FT-10 is the one you're talking about, designed on SA and built in China. It's little Brother the FT-7.5 (with aft chines) is just now becoming available. The FT-13.8 is next but the official designing hasn't taken place as yet. It's supposed to be light, fast, carbon and have a decent interior as well as sell for under 200K. Can they do it? I really don't know.

BTW, I believe there's a full up FT-10 with trailer and full suit of sails available in FL for 50K. The owner's in a bind because of the economy. I think it's hull #39.


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## ckgreenman

GeorgeB said:


> You know that it rough when Alex puts his two best helmsmen on the wheel!
> 
> Mighty fine looking crew there. A pair of real Jack Tars they are!


Actually I think Alex got scared and ran below. Fred And Luis had to take over. :laugher:


----------



## Giulietta

GeorgeB said:


> You know that its rough when Alex puts his two best helmsmen on the wheel!
> 
> Mighty fine looking crew there. A pair of real Jack Tars they are!


Thanks George, that's my oldest Fred he was 9 then, and his best friend Francisco.

Because of that video, I got a ot of mail from anti Child labour venues and even Greenpeace..

They gave me hell for exploiting the kids..

They made this video...to make me aware of what I was doing..


----------



## CharlieCobra

I remember that vid, it still rocks.


----------



## sailingdog

GUU obviously edited that video. It doesn't show the cat o' nine tails he usually carries to keep the kids in line.


----------



## ckgreenman

Giulietta said:


> Thanks George, that's my oldest Fred he was 9 then, and his best friend Francisco.
> 
> Because of that video, I got a ot of mail from anti Child labour venues and even Greenpeace..
> 
> They gave me hell for exploiting the kids..
> 
> They made this video...to make me aware of what I was doing..


And yet he STILL insists on using child labor!!


----------



## Giulietta

sailingdog said:


> GUU obviously edited that video. It doesn't show the cat o' nine tails he usually carries to keep the kids in line.


Dog...you know very well I don't do that...I ony edit for sound or noises..what you see is what you get..no photo, didn't happen, remeber??

not me....

Now...the punishment is not the cat o' nine tails (had to google it)..

THIS IS THE PUNISHMENT!!



















and long hours at the wheel


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## smackdaddy

I'm currently reading "Desperate Voyage" (after having polished off "Heavy Weather Sailing", "Fastnet Force 10", and "The Proving Ground"). John Caldwell said something that really resonated. He states the following as he embarks on his journey:

"The armchair sailors in the Yacht Club lounge - with their yachting caps on - were ready to guffaw 'saltily' at every move that didn't conform to their dainty code."

Now that cracked me up. Not much has changed in 62 years apparently. He then obviously goes on to throw down an insane BFS. Good stuff.

Thanks for the recommendation Charlie.


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## painkiller

smackdaddy said:


> I'm currently reading "Desperate Voyage" (after having polished off "Heavy Weather Sailing", "Fastnet Force 10", and "The Proving Ground").


He dies in the end.


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## sailingdog

LOL.. you didn't know what a cat o' nine tails was??? what kind of captain are you???


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## ckgreenman

He probably just uses the good ole bullwhip


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## CalebD

East Coast vs. West Coast? This is not some kind of rap happy puff-diddy gang war is it? If it is then I am gonna' have to put a cap in your a$$!

Bene505 was kind enough to host some us east coast gang bangers on a little delivery of about 90 nm in some kind of foul weather (gale warnings) on his (natch) Beneteau 505. Apparently it was up for the challenge as were we.

Here is the shortest account I could write without leaving out most of the details I thought important.

Personal log.

Friday Novmber 14th.

After reviewing the NOAA website and the forecasts for this weekend I am still unsure if we will be setting sail for Hempstead Harbor (HH). Fog is a likely atmospheric condition as are winds over 30 knots for the coming days and he stated in his invite postings that these were 2 conditions he would not be happy about. The ambient air temperatures were supposed to stay fairly balmy for this time of year (mid 60's) until sometime on Sunday so I packed my bags and made sure I had backup dry clothing as the forecast called for plenty of rain as well.

I got on the 4:17 pm train to Montauk (MTK) from Penn Station and arrived around 7 pm. to meet Jon who was also waiting at the train station. We were the two smokers that would be on board even though the invite did not include smokers or druggies. It turned out the Jon had sailed with Vlad (known as CrazyRu on Sailnet) from Atlantic City to Staten Island on Vlad's Islander 32', which had been a tempting idea to me as well. Jon and I discussed this in the atmospheric gloom of the MTK train station while we waited for a ride to Star Island and the yacht club where the Beneteau 505 was waiting for us.

I knew that David (Davidpm on Sailnet) would get there before us but I had not arranged anything with him other then I would call him once I arrived. I had no idea (but should have suspected) that David had arrived early in order to go over the rigging of the boat to see if it was up to his standards before shoving off on a 90 nm. passage to the western LI Sound. David brought all his knowledge and a few extra docking lines, which he donated to the mission, which proved indispensable. Rich had also arrived early and helped David clean out the cabin and stow all the stuff that had been lying about the cabin before we arrived.

Brad had also arrived and brought aboard all kinds of provisions and necessities like sleeping bags and whatnot for his wayward guests. David and Richard (and perhaps even Brad) had begun the process of making the reefing lines for the main sail ready to deploy. We all met up finally on the boat and Wade and his parents arrived depositing the last of our crew, a 14 year old named Wade who goes by the name of MrWuffles on Sailnet. There was also Brad's son Lucas who is 12 who would come with us. We chatted and eventually settled down towards sleeping on the boat in the somewhat foggy night.

I stayed up a little longer having a beer or two off the boat and smoking a few cigarettes before retiring. I do not think that I actually fell asleep before being roused in the morning.

Saturday November 15th.

Early the next morning around 5 am we started to get out of bed. David and Richard put the finishing touches on the reefing lines for the main, which made20me feel a bit better about this expedition. I surveyed the weather last night and this morning, which does not bring much confidence about today's adventure; there is still some low fog and not much wind and the prospect for much greater wind later. Jon was the one who cooked up a good scrambled egg breakfast that we all had at one point or another.

The visibility had cleared somewhat from the night before so we woke up the Perkins diesel and backed out of the slip and the gibbous moon that should be lighting up our way was obscured by low hanging clouds and moisture as we motored out of Lake Montauk into Block Island Sound heading towards Gardiner's Bay. We could see the glow of light over MTK in the lifting clouds.

We made our way towards the dreaded Plum Gut and rounded the top of Gardiner's Island and The Ruins with visibility no greater than 1/2 mile. We could not see Gardiner's Island through the mist as the sun was just lighting up the sky in the east and there are precious few lights on that island to begin with. The Greenport ferry sounded its horn as it readied to depart and we watched the Plum Island ferry take some employees over to its Level II contagious disease research facility and crossed its wake as the current began sweeping us through. Once through the gut there were multiple whirlpools on the surface where the current met the Sound. We took a picture or two but they do not do justice=2 0to the amount of water that passes through this confined inlet. Next we20headed west after putting some distance between us and the coast of Long Island (LI).

The current was still pushing us west and we tried motoring and sailing in different configurations. At one point the wind was nearly coming from the NE and we set up a wing on wing arrangement with the sails and Richard used the kayak oar as a whisker pole to keep the jib out on the other side. Eventually the whisker pole fell overboard as the first guard of the SW wind that was to come came through. We did a quick pole overboard rescue maneuver and headed back towards 270 degrees or west.

As we got farther and farther offshore the wind built and kept building out of the SW. David, Rich and Brad went on deck to put in the first reef in the main as the swell began to build and we furled the jib in to match the first reef in sail height. This was probably around 9:30 am although I can't say for sure. I watched the somewhat familiar shoreline of LI drift by as the wind kept on increasing, as did the swell. By about the time we were off of Shoreham we decided that the jib should come in and the second reef point in the main sail should be used as the waves had built enough that the helm was becoming overwhelmed by the gusts with all the canvas she had up. It was difficult to furl in the jib even with the winch, which worried me a bit as I was afraid that we would not get all of it in. We did not really blanket the jib with the main by running more downwind but we did manage to get the jib furled all the way, which was a relief. Soon the main sail was reefed to its second reef point and we turned on the motor for a little forward propulsion and that helped a lot.

We had seen speeds on various GPS units up to and over 10 knots over ground with a peak at 13 and even with just the main reefed down twice and a little engine we were still making about 6 knots or better towards Port Jefferson (PJ).
David seemed to take a snooze in the cockpit while the motion of the boat was increasing but he got up and took the wheel to guide us to the mouth of PJ under main sail and engine alone as we dodged the gusts that I estimated be in excess of 30 knots.

We entered PJ harbor after avoiding a Cross Sound Ferry and a recently sunk motorboat outside the inlet. Wade (the 14 year old) knows this area and suggested we tie up to a marina dock that was closed which worked perfectly in terms of not having to pay a cent for it. As it turned out it was a little easier said then done to securely tie up our 7 ton conveyance to a slightly neglected pier. Richard hopped onto the dock and got the bow line under a horn cleat that was bolted to the dock while we got 2 other spring lines set up from about mid ships and astern to the20dock. The force of the wind on the freeboard of the boat made it difficult to get the boat right up to the pier and soon I heard a splash. Looking forward I saw Richard trying to get the bow spring line wrapped around a nearby piling and the horn cleat was gone and had decided to fly into the water! Fortunately it missed the boat as it

The tide was now going out under a near full moon so spring tides where close at hand and we decided to move the boat about 50 yards along the dock to a deeper spot while 20 knot winds obfuscated us. Prior to moving the boat the Coast Guard had come into the harbor in 2 patrol vessels and deposited crew at the same dock. About the same time our stern line came loose from the pier and we only had two bow spring lines holding us. Some CG Auxiliary guys helped us pull the boat back to the pier without starting the engine.

We decided to see a little of the town of Port Jefferson so the seven of us took off most of our foul weather gear and headed up the pier towards town. I would be guessing but I think that most of us still had our sea legs and we traveled up the streets in a fairly tight yet weaving knot of men and boys. Richard (retired Navy) led the way to the nearest coffee shop to get a cup of Joe but we could just as well have been heading towards the nearest bar to get into a brawl! There is something to be said for the c omradery that is generated by a 60 nm passage where everyone felt happy that our skills were up to the test. We ambled back to the boat and we had a fine lasagna dinner made the day before by Brad's lovely wife Maria. Everyone was quite tired and dropped off one by one.

I decided to stay up for a while (and have a beer or two more) while I watched the rain and frontal system blow in during the late evening (10 pm). I am always fascinated by weather, especially stormy weather. It rained sporadically and the water level in the harbor dropped but we were fine so I went to bed and got the first good sleep I had had in a day or so. David was even a little worried about me and told me that there was room on the bunk we had been sharing. I must have slept through the night and was only awakened by the sound of the hull rubbing against the dock. The wind had only shifted from SW to W (about 45 degrees) but it was enough to pin the hull against the dock. Fortunately we had deployed some bumpers.

Sunday November 16th.

Having reviewed the weather data on the web the previous night we decided to set out as early as possible to avoid the building winds and declining temperatures in order to make Glen Cove. It was very nice to have the NOAA website available to me for my own sense of wellbeing and a novelty to me to even have a wireless web connection on a boat. Ocean sailors=2 0c an access the web by SSB but I hear that this can be a pretty slow connection whereas the wireless card in Brad's laptop made it seem as if I were checking the weather from home.

Getting off the pier was a bit of a task but we managed to only scrape the ocean kayak in the davits a bit on the pier as we finally got off at around 5 am and headed back towards the LI Sound. The boys had not been roused and the only thing that seemed to wake them was the uncomfortable motion of the boat as we hit the 5' + waves coming at us as we left the harbor. It was really pretty boisterous at this point with salt water spray flying every which way around the cockpit as the boat pounded through the waves. I chose to stay in the cabin as I did not want to get my shoes sopping wet as I knew they were the Achilles heel in my foul weather gear. It took a few minutes but I was able to not get sick as I could almost feel my brain sloshing around in my skull as the boat yawed, rocked, rolled and pitched this way and that. I soon became quite comfortable in the cabin as long as I was holding on and looking out the window. I had also defaulted into the job of picking up all the items that were falling off the table and shelves as the boat lurched.

Lucas and Wade soon emerged from their cabin and made as much haste as they could to get up into the cockpit. Poor Lucas was a bit more befouled by th=2 0e motion of the boat but finally found all his foul weather gear and got out into the fresh air and salt spray.

There was almost no reason to raise any sail at this point as the winds had increased such that Sound had a surface graced by a herd of White Horses coming at us. There were white streaks all over the surface and I estimated that we were in conditions of about force 6 or 7 on the Beaufort scale. We only had about 30 nm. left to go to get to GC but it was a bit bouncy and I would have been happy to ditch out in one of the safe harbors along the LI north shore but that would have been wimping out so we headed into the winds with the Perkins diesel pushing us along nicely at better then 6 knots. In fact both David and Richard (ex-Navy) decided that this was a good time to go for a lie down in the cabin as if they were not the least bit concerned so off we went with the teens doing most of the helmsman's work while being splashed with spray and wind. The young crew members, Lucas and Wade, seemed to revel in being at the helm as the boat bounced through the waves.

By the time we reached the buoy off Matincock Point on the eastern edge of HH I had not taken a hand at the wheel. It was now my chance to get the boat safely into the harbor I have known since I was a teenage sailor. Since the winds were out of the west I reasoned that it was best to get as far away20from the breakwater (or jetty) that protects the anchorage from NW winds and get a bit in the lee of the Port Washington hills before we headed into Mosquito Creek in Glen Cove. I got us a bit in the lee of the wind and waves and we got ready for entering the narrow inlet that was our destination. David's dock lines were set up and I made sure that the owner/captain of the boat took over as we entered the small creek in the steady 20+ knot breeze. We managed to slow down enough to be able to attempt to dock but were directed by an employee of the Brewer YC to tie up elsewhere which we did finally manage to do. By then it was about 12 noon local time.

Beating into 5+ foot seas I am fairly amazed that we made this last leg of the trip in as good time as we did and I started looking for all the unopened beers to drink to our health and happiness since we had done what seemed to me the not quite impossible and done it well. These were the roughest conditions I have ever experienced on a boat on LI Sound. I have only seen it worse when Hurricane Gloria came through and there were small ocean sized waves crashing on shore at Sea Cliff. We all owe a debt of gratitude to 'Perky' the Perkins engine that delivered our bacon to our destination. I also credit the success of this mission to Captain Brad's knowledge and organizational skills as well as the competence of the volunteer crew that was selected by him. Thanks to all who participated.

This from another crew member who will probably hate me for publishing his more nautical log of our trip (Davidpm):

Captain: Brad Hildreth (Bene505)
Crew: David Metzler (davidpm)
Richard Weisner (defrich)
Jon Cooper (jdcooper)
Caleb Davidson (CalebD
Wade Phinney (MrWuffles)
Lucas Hildreth

Saturday November 15, 2008
We left the Star Island Yacht Club in Montauk, NY Saturday November 15, 2008 at 5 AM sailed through Plum Gut with very light wind at about 13 knots. The sail started off with very light wind but with the current and all sails out we still made about 4-5 knots. The wind started building so we put in the first reef then finally furled the jib and motor sailed with the main only on second reef. We arrived at Port Jefferson Yacht Club harbor next to the ferry dock after traveling 58 miles at 2:30 PM at high tide with a 15 to 20 knot wind blowing us off the dock. We popped a cleat off the dock and finally tied up with the posts with great difficulty. After a quick walk around town we came back to the boat started dinner. The coast guard used our dock to drop off some guys. Our stern line let go. A couple of Aux coast guard guys helped us retie the stern. After the Cost guard boat left we noticed that tide had dropped a great deal and we didn't have enough water under the boat. With great difficulty due to the wind we walked the boat by hand toward the ferry about a hundred feet where the water was deeper.
Wind speed was from 0 to gusts I estimate about 35 knots.
Marine Buoy Forecast : Weather Underground

Sunday November 16, 2008
We left the Port Jefferson Yacht Club in Montauk, NY Sunday November 16, 2008 at 5 AM. The wind was significant and pushing us on the dock as it had reversed 180 degrees from the night before. The boat was tied up port side to the dock so it was particularly difficult to push off. All hands helped push the boat off the dock and with only a slight scrap of the aft hanging kayak we managed to clear the dock and finally the channel. The wind and waves were much worse than Saturday and we were taking in significant spray over the bow and occasional green water.
Due to the significant water and motion on deck we decided to not put up sails and motored at about 5 knots to the Brewer Yacht Yard at Glen Cove, NY covering 34 miles. We arrived about 12:00 PM. Wind was significant and we estimate we took gusts of about 45 knots with seas of up to 4 feet.
Marine Buoy Forecast : Weather Underground

Every day is a learning experience and on every trip we have the opportunity to learn some more.

Personal Lessens learned:
• Make sure to use half hitches to secure a line tied to pole, a clove hitch can loosen.
• Check the tide range on unfamiliar docks. It can be a lot more than expected even in LIS.
• Take care of your boat first and tie up at a safe place not a convenient place for the dock hand.
• Need boat hooks
• Need lots of strong line for lots of things.
• Waterproof boots
• Waterproof gloves
• If possible tie up to a dock on the starboard side to make it easier to back off.

Even if that does not top the Cobra Charlie guy (and I can't see how our weather could be worse than yours) it was quite an experience for me and I think all of us.

Keep smacking along Diddle *****!


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## Bene505

Caleb,

Nice write-up. Here's a shot of one of the smaller whirlpools at Plum Gut. I remember thinking that we didn't really get any good shots of the bigger whirlpools. This one looks pretty amazing anyway.










Regards


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## CharlieCobra

Going on your first heavy weather sail is exciting, a bit scary or a lot, depending on your viewpoint and memorable. I'm rather surprised the 50' Bene didn't handle conditions like that under sail better. It's certainly faster than my old girl but with almost 20' more waterline, I would hope so. Nice write up though. 

Another thing to consider, a sail in 25 knots of breeze on Oh Joy would be fast and enjoyable. That same wind on my Venture 21 would be a BFS for sure. 

I like the pics of the rips above, looks very familiar and something we see a lot of out here.


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## Bene505

If I remember correctly, the depth guage was reading 364 feet. That's probably the deepest water for 100 miles around, and it's in a 1 mile wide inlet. Loads of current. Pretty exciting.


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## TSOJOURNER

All are good stories and everyone gets overchallenged eventually. A little over two years ago sailed a Sydney 38 from Cairns to Melbourne AU. First part of trip into Whitsundays was fun, the next 2 weeks were into an Antartic front with 6-10 meter (18-30 foot) seas and 30-45 knots on the nose. No where to hide on the run from Lindemans Island south as going into the Keppell Islands not possible in those conditions, so had to deal with for 11days. Trashed several sails, some rigging, stove tore out of mounts and basically lived for a week and a half tethered on deck. Knockdowns offshore are a part of life especially in the lower south Pacific. We made it though in spite of the Austrailian coast guards doubts. Then there is always the Bass Strait into Melbourne, but that is another story.... 
The origin of this discussion in trouble being in trouble in 36 hours means he should not sail off-shore. Try almost two weeks with no real food and minimal liquids. P.S. - A Sydney 38 will not "heave to" as has a 12' bulb keel.

Normal sailing for me is in NewEngland and East Coast and have plenty of 20+ knot days. My mooring is in Piscataqua River which has tides of 5-6+ knots and have to maneuver around freighters, tour boats, naval vessels and submarines. Most of us usually survive these challenges and if you don't have a couple "I'm not going to make it" moments, then you are just pleasure sailing, which is fine, but more fun to push it and get somewhere.

Fair winds and favorable tides,

SkipperB


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## sailingdog

> Personal Lessens learned:
> • Make sure to use half hitches to secure a line tied to pole, a clove hitch can loosen.


Another good reason to use a round turn and two-half-hitches, is a round turn and two-half-hitches can be untied under load... usually can't do that with a clove hitch. 


> • Check the tide range on unfamiliar docks. It can be a lot more than expected even in LIS.


This screws up a lot of lake sailors pretty badly when they first transition to coastal sailing. 


> • Take care of your boat first and tie up at a safe place not a convenient place for the dock hand.


Just remember, it is your boat, and you're responsible for its safety... so yeah... put it where you feel it will be safe.


> • Need boat hooks


The telescoping ones aren't too bad. Highly recommend you get boat hooks that float... Don't ask me how I know.  


> • Need lots of strong line for lots of things.


Doesn't have to be all that strong for most things, a big spool of 1/4" and a decent amount of 1/2" line will cover you for most things on a boat the size of yours, Bene505 might want to up the heavier line to 5/8". 


> • Waterproof boots


Wet feet suck... if your feet are cold, you'll generally be miserable.


> • Waterproof gloves


Wet hands get cold and stop working well...  


> • If possible tie up to a dock on the starboard side to make it easier to back off.


Depends on the boat..... and which side it has prop walk to, if any.


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## Bene505

Holy crap, a 12 foot bulb keel. Ok, I'm impressed.


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## mrwuffles

*Ultimate BFS*

This guy is a wee bit crazy i think he should win the competition if anyone should our sail was big but no one can compare to his trip
i think a hankerchief is bigger than that sail he has up yes hes still just breakin right through the waves
yes i was on bene's trip and nominate our trip for second
lots of fun thanks bene


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## sailingdog

MrWuffles-

Given who was on that boat, I'm not surprised, from the caption:



> Skippered by *Sir Peter Blake* and *Sir Robin Knox-Johnston*, the Kiwi boat established a new Jules Verne Trophy record during this second attempt - 74 days 22 hours 17 minutes and 22 seconds.


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## Bene505

SD,

I watched from the deck as the clove hitch first slipped a little, then slipped the rest of the way. You could hear it slip. It was one of those "what to do" moments. I decided to stay put since I'd be the boat driver if we came off. At least that was what I think was going through my mind. We had bow and spring lines in place, so we didn't go far once it failed.

At the end of the trip I saw a fender tied on with a clove hitch to the lifeline. As part of my pre-sail briefing, I'm outlawing clove hitches unless backed up by 2 half hitches. Half hitches I understand. I must admit to not fully understanding why/how a clove hitch works under varying (down to slack) loads.

-----

The dock hand one was interesting. Those guys can be helpful but they can also hurt you if you let them. At our destination, we were directed to a slip that was through a tight maze, in high winds, with all sorts of beautiful sailboats on either side of the maze. I refused. So we got directed to one of the gas docks right next to us. The dock hand then hemmed and hawed about how someone might come in for gas -- with a gale blowing outside the cove, mind you. I mean all morning we saw 3 boats on the whole Long Island Sound, with 20+ mile visibility.

I replied that I was about to write a check for $4,000 to his marina and he was going to reserve that dock for someone who MIGHT show up?!? It really irked me. I told him flat out that his actions were making me seriously reconsider his marina for my winter pull out. That's when he went away. (He also mentioned, by the way, that the powerboater at the other gas dock had similarly refused, even with his bow thruster. Go figure.)

An hour later I introduced myself to him saying we should start over. We ended up on good terms. I moved the boat the next day, when the winds had died down a little.


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## Bene505

I agree with MrWuffles.

By the way I have a great picture of MrWuffles with salt caked on his face. The spray kept depositing it and the wind kept drying it in place. Nice size chunks of salt at that. This guy rocks!


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## TSOJOURNER

Yeah, the Sydney 38 has a lot of spar and keel. They are offshore racing boats and are great if you can have 8-9 on the rail but we only had 4 total crew and two of them were mostly useless on the crazy leg. Thank god for the 96" carbon fiber wheel that is 2 3/4" diameter as the autopilot was useless in those conditions. One bad thing about a skinny keel with a bulb, heaving to is basically impossible. Biggest issue is the hundreds of unmarked islands off shore with no lights or anything on them and GPS is spotty. 
Still have some scars literally, from that one and it was incredible. I was just 50 then and don't know if have another one in me, but will try if the opportunity.
My planned Atlantic crossing was for that year but still need a bigger boat for that. I keep looking but sellers are unrealistic with their pricing on ocean going yachts. My Pearson is too light for a crossing.

These posts are great and wish had more time to participate... Enjoy the banter.


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## smackdaddy

SkipperB - welcome, dude! It's great to have you. Definitely BFS material.

I want to hear more about the down under sailing. I just finished "The Proving Grounds" and have nothing but respect for you and others who sail those waters. Holy crap!

And, by the looks of your adventures, you will vastly improve the BFS Cup standings of the Eastie crew. They need all the help they can get.


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## smackdaddy

mrwuffles said:


> This guy is a wee bit crazy i think he should win the competition if anyone should our sail was big but no one can compare to his trip
> i think a hankerchief is bigger than that sail he has up yes hes still just breakin right through the waves
> yes i was on bene's trip and nominate our trip for second
> lots of fun thanks bene


Holy crap, Wuffles! Is there a boat under that stuff? Nice pic dude. And impressive BFS of your own. Hey, let's get the "Saltface" pic up ASAP.


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## TSOJOURNER

Smackdaddy,

Glad to participate. I have only been ocean sailing for about 17 years but did a lot of lake sailing as a youth. I have had some interesting days as New England sailing is right up there with the best. If you want some laid back stuff the Caribbean is the only place to go. My company services Sir Richards place on Necker Island in the BVI so have spent some time there.
About 10 years ago I was winding up a trip from Portsmouth (NH) around Cape Cod and some time in the islands (MV and N). We waited for the tide to make the Canal (laying over at anchor in Hadley Harbour - a most beautiful anchorage). We made through the CC Canal with little trouble (it runs 10 knots there) and into Cape Cod Bay. 
The CG put out a safe harbor call but we were in the middle of the bay and radar showed a heavy squall line approaching quickly. I was younger and crazier so we sailed hard until the front was only about 5 miles off. We doused sail and secured just in time. The guage read 69 knots at the height of it and we only lost a few boat parts but lightning was literally hitting the water all around us and amazed we did not get hit as no other boats on radar anywhere near us. Despite the scare, after the line passed we set sail and made Marblehead in time for dinner. The boat was a mess but we dined on shore and partied with the MOOG crews who were there. I don't know if anyone on this has sailed there but with almost 2000 boats (mostly sail) in the harbor, it is quite a site. We had good dock cred since all knew we had come through the squall. 
Will post some others next time I get time. I have about 14,000 miles under the keel with ocean sailing and although that is nothing compared to many others I know and have sailed with, a lot of them were not easy passages.

Thanks and will check in whenever I can.


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## smackdaddy

Sounds good Skip. Come back every chance you get. 

I actually did a bit of work for Sir Richard a while back on a couple of different projects. Haven't met him - but dig is companies.

Give him a noogie for the old Smackdaddy next time you see him. He won't know who in the hell you're talking about and you'll get fired on the spot - but it'll be fun.


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## TSOJOURNER

Smackdaddy,
Only met him once as we work through Virgin Management who handles all the Virgin companies needs worldwide. My company provides commercial satellite and network services of all kinds. I just wish we could get Virgin Blue (his Australian airline) to operate the same here. They just started early this year but US regulations will never let them operate like they can down under. 
It is an amazing place. You have to adjust as stars are almost all different and the sun is oriented north so most things are the opposite of what we are used to in the northern hemisphere.


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## CharlieCobra

Smack, this was taken on that same sail as the pic you like:










and another


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## smackdaddy

Charlie - you definitely don't need to convince me that you got it goin' on. Nice pics.

However, you do need to rally your fellow Westies and go vote in the BFS Cup 2008 poll. You guys are getting slaughtered over there!


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## Bene505

Smack,

I'm having trouble voting. Loyalty says I should vote for the East Coast, but I have a lot of respect for Giu and some of the others. I simply have to abstain from that poll. BFS is BFS, and location doesn't matter. Wherever you are, you'll find it whenever you can (or it will find you).

Regards


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## smackdaddy

Awww Bene, dude. You're going to be a Conscientious Objector? You're going to burn your BFS Draft Card?

Fair enough, a man has to live by his conscience (wimpy, wambly though it may be). Actually, I'm ex-Peace Corps, so what can I say?

Or wait! Is this actually an insidious plot to play the "independent" and be wined and dined by each of the competing contingents to pimp your vote? Smart, my man, very smart. I think you'll enjoy the Portuguese wine and cigars. As for us Gulfies - all we have is a couple of warm cans of Lone Star and pork rind I found in my sofa cushions.


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## mrwuffles

yummy sofa pork rind would like some shoe jerky with that?


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## ckgreenman

smackdaddy said:


> Or wait! Is this actually an insidious plot to play the "independent" and be wined and dined by each of the competing contingents to pimp your vote? Smart, my man, very smart. I think you'll enjoy the Portuguese wine and cigars. As for us Gulfies - all we have is a couple of warm cans of Lone Star and pork rind I found in my sofa cushions.


Ahh yes. The American Way!! Make them BUY your vote..


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## TSOJOURNER

Bene505,


This is how people we don't want to elect win.... Come on, you're in New England so you ARE an Eastie! Don't forget, we get lots of action and also have to do it with NO visability which always adds to the fun.
If it was just about the most challenging conditions then Down Under and the Indian Ocean would win on statistics.
Check out average wind and sea state in the Bass Strait. No one sane would ever go there unless the have to. But who said we were sane?
Go Easties!

SkipperB


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## TSOJOURNER

Bene505,

Although I do agree that BFS is where you make and find it..... but this is a vote. Abstinence is not the better part of valor.

SkipperB


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## mrwuffles

Us easties also put up with a little ity bity obstacle called hurricanes


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## CharlieCobra

Yep but I don't see anybody sailing in them on purpose.


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## mrwuffles

so your saying you had all your BFS on purpose? because i doubt it


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## CharlieCobra

No but I surely wouldn't set out in Hurricane weather. Of course, if I was on a long distance passage and one sprang up, not much I could do but try to run. The same goes here. The storms we get up here can top Cat 2 conditions and can roar down on ya in a real hurry leaving you with no place to go. Some of these storms move as fast as 30 knots so ya ain't gonna have much warning or out run it. I went through 5 hurricanes when I lived in Texas and have a stout appreciation for them. Carla, Beulah, Celia, Alan and Alicia. They always managed to hit where I happened to be.


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## chall03

Ok Smack, heres a recent BFS tale for you from downunder.

Last week the first mate and I chartered a Beneteau 43 up in the Whitsundays to take a couple of non sailing friends on a relaxing holiday in some tropical climes....give them a taste of the good life.

After a few beautiful days of supreme island hopping with calm anchorages, and perfect sunsets with perfect cocktails, we set out last Friday for Whitehaven Beach which is a wide expanse of sand known as the jewel of the Whitsundays.
After a morning on the beach, my newbie sailors began questioning my sailing manhood and crying out for a BFS. Whining about our Motoring to Sail ratio thus far(Stupid boat needed 3 hours of engine running a day to stop the worlds most annoying battery alarm going off at 2am) the newbies had purchased a BFS sticker and slapped it firmly on the cabintop, chicken noises were being made in my general direction and it was time to step up and see if indeed these french floating RV's did disintegrate if out of sight of a marina.

The afternoon forecast was for 15-20 knots, perfect introductory BFS material and the newbies had were eager. Up went the anchor, Up went the main and out popped the furled genoa. We flew through Solway Passage, the washing machine of the Whitsundays and out into some wonderful blue yonder. We were flying indeed, the Chartplotter was declaring a respectable 7.5 knots of boat speed, the newbies were rejoicing and the BFS burgee was flown proudly from the backstay. I cracked a beer and handed the helm to the nearest newbie.

The next series of events happened very very quickly. As i was supervising from the leeward wheel whilst sipping and daydreaming, the first mate popped up from the radio informing me that the updated forecast was now more like 20-25. No problem honey I declared, an opportunity to crank a bit more boatspeed out of this 'bendy toy'. A cursory glance at the wind instruments confirmed we were indeed now getting a steady 25 knots. Nice! We were after all on a brand new 43 foot boat, not our belovedly tender Sandgroper back at home, the poor 30 year old 27 ft yacht we both would have reefed an hour ago in these conditions. Soon the first mate was at my side,
" Honey we should reef" she chastised after a glance at the wind speed. 'Spoil sport' I muttered under my breath. Besides I would have to put down my beer. However I conceded, sometimes it is better to go along than argue.

By the time our newbie crew, bikini clad in holiday mode got the 1st reef in and I picked up my beer once again we were now hard on the wind and getting a steady 30 knots. The first mate, as experienced as I perhaps but alas one of those pretend inshore racing type of sailors was now looking at me with some concerned looks. 
"Dont worry babe, this isn't your neighbourhood J24 regatta" I proclaimed "Us Real BFS sailors thrive on these conditions". Besides the forecast had said 20-25. Now we all know forecasts are never wrong. Alas, I was kinda hoping for some high seas 'quality time' that evening so put in the second reef to keep her happy. 

At 35 knots still hard on the wind, second reef in and despite having furled in a good dose of Headsail, the newbie was still on the helm when we rounded up and I abruptly woke up. What the **#$ was I thinking? If it wasn't for the first mate's common sense I probably would still have been under full main in an act of utter lunacy and in defiance of everything I had ever learn't and knew about sailing. I learn't in that moment that the sea doesn't have much time for our egos. 

With the true wind speed dial now reading a steady 50 knots, all the newbies got very quiet. I realized I was in unchartered territory, but if I was to pursue our dreams of bluewater venturing this was the stuff we would have to get very used to. More immediately it dawned on me that our destination and overnight anchorage was now quite untenable in these condiitons. A further 3-4 hour beat to windward was what was required to get us to a suitable anchorage...

We all slept rather well that night safely in our anchorage, having had an exhilarating day some had loved BFS, others wanted the hell off the boat. I pondered how much I had learned that day, and also how much I had learned about what I still need to learn. However I had indeed had for me what was a BFS....


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## CharlieCobra

Nice! Good to hear about others pushing their experience, within reason. Beating in that become bashing and crashing quickly though. I find it interesting to see the various reactions from folks to heavier sailing. Everybody loves a gentle sail but once it gets up....


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## Giulietta

*RING

RING

RING

RING​*


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## smackdaddy

Chall,

That sounds like an awesome BFS to me dude. I'm thinking Giu has a question or two regarding the accuracy of the Beneteau anonemeter. But you have to admire his graphical prowess nonetheless.

I particularly like the part about the "BFS Trance". It's really the way it works isn't it? The desire to push taking over - taking you to the edge of disaster, at which point you spill your booze and come to your senses. And, of course, it always helps to have a sensible first mate. But you gotta push - man - you gotta push!

All in all, quality BFS, dude! You and your Oz mates really do need to go over to the BFS Cup 2008 poll thread and start helping out the "Supersouthies" contingency in the standings. You guys are sailing big - no doubt - but the numbers don't show it.

Finally, I'll have the BFS Shop up and running in a few weeks. We'll get that sticker and burgee to you, mate! Keep throwin' down!

PS - It's always good to have bikini-clad crew. Always.


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## smackdaddy

Giu - which part set off the alarm? We need to dial this thing in. And are those numbers true or apparent?


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## Bene505

Great BFS write-up chall! Thanks for sharing it with us. 

Maybe I should vote for the Down-Unders? That was some good BFS!


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## chall03

I have always enjoyed Giu artistic efforts and humour. 
Im not sure Im even totally understanding this one however.....If your right Smack and he is questioning the wind speeds quoted in my post, I direct everyone's attention to the following link.

Hamilton Island, Qld - November 2008 - Daily Weather Observations

This is the ACTUAL wind speeds recorded by the Australian Bureau of Meteorology on Hamilton Island in the Whitsundays. Have a look at Friday 21st November 2008, the day in question. Its easy to find, its the one with the really big numbers in red. Obviously I wrote parts of my story very tongue in cheek, I however am not a liar.


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## Giulietta

Chall..no one called you a liar....this is the BFS thread after all..even if you lied...(which I am not saying you did)..but even if...you were not the first...

nice chart..as evidence..no need really..but since you showed it...
By the way..here we measure wind in Knots, not Km/hr..why am I saying this??

I have a 9.5 foot draft, and a boat for wind...I can't sail at 40 knots, neither can anyone I know...we are all that bad...

above 40 knots...I have no sail on, unless I have 10 guys on the rail...

So everytime I read about people sailing in 40 and 50 knots....I read every line very slowwwwwwly, to make sure I understood.


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## smackdaddy

Yo Giu - what's the issue with knots over ground vs. knots over agua for boat speed? Doesn't the former present more accurate speed as it's not affected by current, etc.? It seems like a GPS would be more accurate in this regard than a speedo on a boat. No?

Chall - Giu's basic premise is...if he can't do it - it can't be done. There's also the issue of the BFS Cup - so he's a little on edge. So don't sweat it. Then again, the knots vs. kmh is a valid point. I say keep it at 50 and have another beer.

Bene - just vote for someone dammit!


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## Giulietta

I am like the guy at the end of the bar..siting drunk...no one cares about..he just calls merda de boi to everything that is said in the bar (true or not)...somehow sometime..he will be right...


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## Giulietta

GPS measures position of a receiver in regards to a satelite, can't measure wind speeds..

As far as winds measured in land...I don't sail in land..I sail on the water...

2 to 10 miles off the coast.

I never cared much for land observations and meteorological tables..I look at my st60, set it in True..that is what I see....TRUE..not APPARENT....

Thecnically it is stronger at sea because there are no objects and terrain deviations to make changes or cause drag..but generally wind also cools down at sea, and gusts have a different behaviour tha in land where montains etc, can cause deviations to airflows and velocities...normally they place these wnd measuring stations way up high, where winds are also consitently higher..as you know

READ HERE

READ HERE


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## smackdaddy

Hey - look, Giu - at least you had the guts to call it here in this thread...right or wrong. There are plenty of others that hide in other threads and just whisper MDB like old ladies. That's kind of pathetic if you ask me.

You're always welcome at the BFS bar, dude. Even if you don't know how to sail in 40 knots.

PS - I was talking about boat speed - not wind speed.


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## Giulietta

If you go to SA..the motto there is..

no picture?? Didn't happen...

And they don't care about pictures of waves slapping the hull an high heels..they want the white caps...the wave behind you, and the not/wind meter shot...even then...gets voted...

Too many drunk old men at the end of that bar....


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## chall03

Firstly, I am sorry I sounded far more defensive than I mean't too. 

Secondly after having a close look at the Bureau data (after first converting it to knots of course ) It acutally kind of supports your point. The numbers I give were as they were reading on the bene's instruments, however the bureau seems to be saying that the worst of it at Hamo island anyway was more like 35-40 knots. Also the missing detail from my original post is that by the end of it, in order to make our anchorage I had only a heavily reefed main up and was motorsailing.....

Giu, from what I read from you on here, I have enormous respect for you as a sailor and a individual. I have gotten so much out of your posts, I seems to me that you are the guy at the end of the bar siting drunk, giving everyone crap, but when you do put down the glass and turn to bar with a serious look on your face everyone shuts up and listens. I say 'bartender, pour that guy down there another' and lets start arguing over our drinks about imperial vs metric.


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## Giulietta

chall03 said:


> Firstly, I am sorry I sounded far more defensive than I mean't too.
> 
> Secondly after having a close look at the Bureau data (after first converting it to knots of course ) It acutally kind of supports your point. The numbers I give were as they were reading on the bene's instruments, however the bureau seems to be saying that the worst of it at Hamo island anyway was more like 35-40 knots. Also the missing detail from my original post is that by the end of it, in order to make our anchorage I had only a heavily reefed main up and was motorsailing.....
> 
> Giu, from what I read from you on here, I have enormous respect for you as a sailor and a individual. I have gotten so much out of your posts, I seems to me that you are the guy at the end of the bar siting drunk, giving everyone crap, but when you do put down the glass and turn to bar with a serious look on your face everyone shuts up and listens. I say 'bartender, pour that guy down there another' and lets start arguing over our drinks about imperial vs metric.


Chall, look man, I swear I didn't want to be offensive either, and if I was..I appologize...by the above post, I have gained more respect for you than if you had sailed in 60 knots (that for the guys in the PNW) 

like I said, this is BFS, and most that come here and read what is here already know that there is a lot of merda de boi here...sadly not many can see it, and believe what they read...(which includes my crap too)...which is then bad, because it just brings more inaccuracy and MDB....

Truth is, I live in a place where winds ares trong all of the year except in the summer (that's why we flee south), and sometimes it blows really really hard, and makes hair grow in your chest..we have swells and waves that are sometimes coordinated with the wind, with intervals of less than 10 seconds..

I have been here all my life...and I have learn to see what is possible and what is not....we are not VOR racers or Vendee or transat people..we are normal mortals with poop boats...really...

that is why, I said..when I read anyone saying..."oh..me..I sail all the time in 30...or 40...."..

my first reaction is..he's reading apparent, he is destroying the boat, he was caught in a mid Atlantic storm and had to ride it out...(and the reef BS doesn't work here because you will only make it with a storm sail)..or..he lies....now politely called MDB....

By the way...look what it looks like here tomorrow..right there where it says waves...that's 22 feet, and 30 knot winds, measured at the shore line...do I go out?? not if you don't pay me the value of my boat....










NOW...Imperial drinking measurements..yes..you defenately win there!!1

Nice talking to you..you are indeed a gentleman...if I can be of any assistance to you, just ask....


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## Bene505

smackdaddy said:


> ... Bene - just vote for someone dammit!


I'm waiting for the Portuguese wine, some cigars from the Carribean, lobbying dollars for my re-election... No wait, this isn't a public office. This is BFS. OK, I'll vote.

Eenie, meenie, minie, moe..... DONE!


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## CalebD

Kilometers/hour is about as useless a measurement as tits are on a bull unless you happen to be driving on a road that has a speed limit posted in kilometers/hour. ALL nautical charts have measurements in degrees, minutes and seconds where a second corresponds to a nautical mile (there are no Metric nautical charts that I know of). In short, you can use the Metric system to build a boat but leave it at the dock or in your toolbox when you are on the water. The truth bending Welshman, Tristan Jones wrote a nice tirade of the Metric system that I am paraphrasing.
We all (should) have our BS (merde de toro) meters on at the high sensitivity setting while reading this thread as we all (should) know that it it can be difficult to gauge wave height, boat and wind speeds. That is why we have instruments to measure such things as our senses can't predictably figure it out. It seems to me a simple mistake of the Aussie, Chall, to have quoted kilometers/hour for the wind speeds he was in. After all there are nearly 2 KM in one nautical mile so 60 kilometers per hour is more like 34 knots of wind. 
Hell and be damned, even my beloved NOAA national data buoy center keeps historical wind speeds in meters/second, which is fine for scientific research but one needs to know that 25 meters/second = about 50 knots. National Data Buoy Center
Apparently there even are some buoys around OZ in their network. Have a look. 
Nice account of your sail Chall and keep posting Oz style, just leave the kilometers per hour out of it.


----------



## chall03

Thanks Caleb.
I think your right it is a scientific rather than nautical way of seeing things. None of the numbers mentioned by me were in km/h, we do use knots Downunder as well l promise! The only thing in km/h was the Australian Bureau of Meteorolgy's page I linked to. Being a branch of the Australian Government, i'm not sure what my chances will be of convincing them to change their ways.

Cheers Giu for also being a gentleman and for the offer of assistance.
To clear something up, we were not sailing in it well at all, It was chaos and we certainly weren't getting anywhere, I guess part of my point was that we were overpowered, I was overwhelmed by the conditions and well, I was stupid. 

Now funny you mentioned 60 knots, let me tell you all about the day the beloved and I were doing a spinnaker run in 60 knots.......


----------



## chall03

Here is the best photographic evidence I could find sorry. The first two were taken earlier around the time the ST40 was reading about 30 knots I think....
The last one was taken later that day after were sailing anchored.
I don't have any from time when I believe we were getting more like 40+ knots.

Tell me what you think


----------



## Giulietta

Chall..nice photos...true wind, and AMAZING WATER colour....

That is defenately over 30 knots wind..yes Sir..it is....

since you weree kind enough to show your real true stuff..(and seen by the water surface and white caps), I show you one too..a 30 knot true downwind run..(I ahve the beating into it also, but am saving it for a later occasion)

http://s212.photobucket.com/flash/player.swf?file=http://vid212.photobucket.com/albums/cc65/giuliettacsc2/wake.flv


----------



## smackdaddy

Whoooooah! Gotta say, Chall - that looks like some pretty slammin' conditions to me. And I think the self-appointed BFS Grand Inquisitor has finally conceded. Your photos look harrier than his video.

B.....F.....S.

Now get TDW to go over to the BFS Cup poll and throw down some votes for the Supersouthies. You guys are rockin' the house!


----------



## TSOJOURNER

Chall03,

Although 50 might be pushing it, my experience sailing out of the Whitsundays had a similar ring. What many do not realize is that there is virtually nothing between Antartica and the east coast of Australia. Tasmania and New Zealand don't really matter. Most weather on the planet originates from the Souther pole area and with 1000's of miles of fetch, it comes up in a hurry. They are fronts, not necessarily storms, but they pack a strong punch. The only real saving grace is that the water temps make minute by minute dowsing more survivable. My trip was from beginning September to end of September 2006. You can look at historical archives of the front and although wind speeds several hundred miles offshore are not so traceable, it is quite common to have a burst from 15-20 to 30+ in no time at all. The fronts last for many days or even weeks especially in their Spring which was when we were there. The other factor is there are few markers once out of the Whitsundays and many, many islands off shore with no markers, lights, or anything which makes night sailing in BFS conditions especially challenging. 
Where did you anchor on that run? When we got hit south of Lindeman Island, ther really was nowhere to go. Our intent was Brisbane but that and most options were not tenable due to conditions and direction.
As in most open ocean areas, things can change fast and always best to reef early, you can always shake them back out but reefing over 25 knots is always an adventure, especially with a loose footed main.
Good reading on these posts though. 

SkipperB


----------



## TSOJOURNER

Chall03
Towing a dinghy in those conditions always an added challenge. Did you get some ballast in her to keep it in the water? I learned long ago to store them. Nothing more annoying that the dinghy flopping around on her side or upside down, and dragging the outboard in the salt. You were lucky not to lose her. 
Good sailing.

SkipperB


----------



## TSOJOURNER

Towing dinghy in BFS conditions NOT RECOMMENDED.
Dinghy can serve as drogue until becomes airborne at about 30+ knots. Also if down wind can become severed or attached to backstay or helmsman.
Sailing downwind in 1995 in severe conditions had 9'6" AB blown into backstay and sliced open. Fortunately caught before outboard submerged but $3000 loss of dinghy and usable contents. 

You can be crazy but still careful.

SkipperB


----------



## chall03

We ended up in Nara Inlet, which is supposedly the best all weather anchorage in the Whitsundays....

I do agree with you SkipperB about the dinghy with the benefit of hindsight. Essentially the theme of my tale was that we were caught unawares to some degree, and I was at the time being a BFS dumbass in several respects.

However what ultimately stopped me stowing the dinghy in the end, was the fact that we were on a charter yacht and when I mentioned stowing the dinghy to the charter company on the radio they point blank told me don't try it....I reasoned it was both their dinghy and their yacht, so be it. Particularly off the wind however I was very worried about the dinghy surfing down a wave and into the back of yacht.


----------



## CalebD

*Just to echo SkipperB, re: towing dinghies*

On a sail I did earlier this year from Tortola, BVI to the Turks & Caicos Islands on a big Beneteau we lost and then found our escaped dinghy. The full story is perhaps not a BFS as the winds were not much above 'normal' or force 3 - 4 but more of a normal ocean sail (NOS). Here is my full writeup: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruising/43821-sailors-hands-angry-ocean.html 
The thumbnail account has to do with the dinghy which had a bridle line on it but no official towing bridle. The owner had used a bowline tied around the line at the bow of the dinghy instead. After 3 days of being on normal ocean sailing waves (4 - 6') the line chafed and the dinghy left us. Fortunately the motor was safely attached to the stern rail or push pit. However, the new Walker Bay gray inflatable began to get indistinguishable from the white caps in our wake. I was the sole smoker on board out of a total crew of 2 and hence I was smoking in the cockpit. I noticed the sound that was missing rather then the sight of the missing dinghy first. I called the skipper off his seat of ease below in the cabin with one word: "dinghy". 
He came back to the cockpit and we bashed back up wind less then 1000 yards form the point the dingy's lines had let go and we snagged it and retied the line as we were within 10 miles of our intended destination on Providenciales. 
To be fair, there were no dinghy davits on this 50+ foot boat and stowing it on the foredeck would have been something of a pain but I learned a few things about towing a dinghy (or dink as us Yanks sometimes call it) in any kind of swell.
1 - It is always best to haul your dinghy up in davits or up on the deck if possible.
2 - If you must tow it be sure to check the towing lines regularly and I would even recommend an extra 'rescue' line to it.
3 - Spend the $100 for the official bridle package as a bowline tied across another line will part eventually due to chafing, no matter how high tech that line may be.

Chall, since the charter company said not to do anything about the dinghy you did what you needed to do. They pay insurance money to cover the eventual loss of the dinghy and their insurance may not cover renters doing other damage to the boat whilst trying to stow the dinghy on deck - which could have come out of your pocket.

It always amazes me how an owner of a $100+ K boat would skimp on the small stuff but I guess that after you have paid that much you would rather replace an item (dinghy) then risk damage to your expensive property. On the other hand (OTOH) you can see the boat bucks piling up sooo much faster with a big boat - multiple heads, thicker lines for running rigging etc, etc. That is why charters are not cheap as being cheap means you are skimping on something that you probably should have.


----------



## TSOJOURNER

my BFS today, but the visdeo is not good:hothead :hothead :hothead

but the wind was very strong and cold fronts were 3.

http://i125.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid125.photobucket.com/albums/p61/giuliettacsc/FREDCASCAIS2008.flv


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - this kid FREAKIN' ROCKS!!! Talk about BFS!

FRED - YOU ARE THE MAN! I honestly have a great deal of respect for your sailing abilities. Seriously. I hope me and my sons learn to sail half as good as you. Great work, dude!



OPTIMANIA said:


> hello
> 
> today I asked dad to film for the BFS. Was very cold and the waves were very big, but yesterday was worse.
> 
> today I fell of my boat :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher and my dad laughed..
> 
> :laugher :laugher :hothead :hothead :hothead :hothead
> 
> good to see here, but the image s in not good, so sorry
> 
> POR2320 Fred
> 
> http://i125.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid125.photobucket.com/albums/p61/giuliettacsc/FREDCASCAIS2008.flv​


----------



## chall03

Nice video Fred  It does look a little on the chilly side for me...


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## ckgreenman

Awesome Video Fred. Congrats!!


----------



## craigtoo

Big
Fred
Sail

!!!!!!!


----------



## pmoreira

Great stories here 

I though I'd share two of my rookie-meets-roughish-weather experiences...

I've been sailing with my wife and some friends on their Beneteau First Class 8. Last weekend we went out, 5 of us, expecting 15kts of wind, and waves around 1,5 or 2 meters... at least that was the weather reports we had...

So head out, hoist the main and a #1 Genoa, and all is well for all of 20 minutes, till the wind starts picking up and getting gusty. We're pointing as high as we can and heeling 25, 30 degrees when the gusts hit... so it's time for a smaller Genoa, right?... Except that the sail bags somehow were mixed up and we end up hoisting a bigger #1 instead of a #2... you can imagine how well that went.

Wind was up to 25Kts by now, so it's time to reef the main and get a smaller genoa. So I get to have a practical lesson on reefing taught while I'm hugging the mast from the windward side, and my friend, who is teaching me is on the leeward side of the mast teaching me how to reef the main while trying to stay on his feet.

Then it's time for yours truly to head up to the bow and lower that monster and hoist a #3 while getting drenched in spray...

Finally we get to take it a little easier and enjoy a beautiful sunset...

We ended up having to drop the genoa on the way back... wind was going on 30Kts, I think... we we did some folks out with just the storm jib.

It was also my first time out at night.


----------



## pmoreira

This one took place about 2 months ago or so. Late summer, weather was getting chillier and we expected some light rain.

This time it was only 3 of us. One of the owners, me, and my wife. We'd been out sailing 3 or 4 times during the summer, never more than 15Kts and calm seas.

Instead of heading west to Cascais as we usually do, we decided to head up-river to Lisbon, since the tide was rising.

Not five minutes out we start getting a bit of rain. Wind was around 15Kts, but a lot of gusts going close to 20Kts. Sea was pretty choppy... waves weren't that big, but very irregular and close together.

Hoist up the main and the genoa, set course to the Belém Tower, and off comes the starboard genoa sheet... my wife's bowline was less than stellar and came out... so we come about and I sheet in the genoa on the port side so my wife can go and re-tie the starboard sheet. Everything would have been ok apart from the fact that I had one too many turns of rope on the winch (these are not self-tailing ones...) and jammed the sheet in tight... So now we have to get the starboard sheet over to port, on the other winch, and cut the knot on the port sheet. All of this with rain, spray, 20 knot gusts... not bad for a first contact with rougher weather... 

So we finally sort that out and sail on to Lisbon... turns out it was a busy Saturday morning... we had to dodge a sailing class of Optimists, two races and a freigher... Passing under the bridge we start getting 20 knots wind with gusts going on 25 knots... 

We were getting pretty tired by now, so we decided to head back home, reefing the main and dropping the genoa for a softer ride.

I did get to see the Belém Tower from the river... that is a beautiful sight... I just wished the weather was nicer so I could actually enjoy the view and snap a few pictures...


----------



## TSOJOURNER

Chall03,

I guess the charter company has its' policies but wanted to mention as always is disturbing to see your dinghy on the backstay over your head, never mind dangerous.

We did think about turning around to go back to Whitsundays but did not want to deal with following seas downwind in those conditions as avoiding broaching and knockdowns was hard enough on the point of sail we were using. We were about 75 miles south of the islands at the point we got slammed and did need to get back to the mainland. The Keppel Islands were our intent but they are hard to approach in the conditions we were in and with boat parts breaking daily, our decision was to press on and the locals there agreed. 

Surprising not any comments on knockdowns as BFS usually result in one or more especially sailing at night without seeing wave direction. 

Skipper B


----------



## smackdaddy

pmo - welcome! Great BFS stories, dude. And I for one am glad to see a fellow newish sailor battling elements and ignorance just like I do! Of course, I'm still stuck on a lake - so you win.

In the end, I truly admire your willingness to throw up a #1 in 25 knots. That's truly a big freakin' sail, brother! Kudos!


----------



## smackdaddy

*The Gauntlet*

Okay - so here is how it seems to work around here:

1. You throw down your BFS.
2. Some drunk yells MDB and gets the sailors all riled up.
3. You provide evidence.
4. The drunk raises an eyebrow and pats you on the back.
5. The sailors pat you on the back.
6. Then ALL the drunken sailors start nitpicking your evidence for other crap like loose outhauls, flying dinghies, nacho cheese sauce on your anonemeter, the incorrect number of ice cubes in your dark and stormy, etc.

The question is what do you do? Do you stop throwin' down? Do you let them run you off like a henpecked hamster? Hell no!

Running the BFS gauntlet is all part of the game. Punch back when punched - but be willing to learn a thing or two as well. That's what makes it fun.

Hats off to Chall. A true BFSer for showing the world how to do it right. Good on ya, mate!


----------



## CharlieCobra

This has turned into an interesting thread for sure. One thing I keep pointing out is that 40+ in Puget Sound isn't the same as 40+ off the coast. The Sound gets ya a nice blow, 6-10' wind waves and maybe some old swells to deal with if in front of the Strait. Sure, you can get larger sort period square waves if the wind is against the current but off the coast will net ya 12-17' swells with 6-10' wind waves on top of that at 6-8 second periods against an unwelcome lee shore and no place to run. HUGE difference. We, myself included, don't sail off the coast in certain times of the year around here unless we have a death wish. Those few that have done it and survived, typically won't do it again. There was a yacht lost a couple of years ago, the Seymour" something, out in the Gulf Stream. I remember seeing a photo taken by the USCG of the life raft about halfway up an 80'+ wave that was just an orange dot against the water. Now THAT was insane, the fact that the folks survived was even crazier. Enjoy your BFS's but just make sure ya don't get carried away. I'm getting tired of reading about lost sailing yachts up here.


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## ckgreenman

CharlieCobra said:


> Enjoy your BFS's but just make sure ya don't get carried away. I'm getting tired of reading about lost sailing yachts up here.


In other words don't turn it into "Boat Freaking Sank".


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## TSOJOURNER

Smackdaddy
I don't think anyone is trying to scare anybody. Just adding experiences which is the only way we learn. We really don't truly learn it until it happens to us but reading about it doesn't hurt.
If you want the quintesential reference (other than Chapmans of course) pick up the "Offshore Sailing Encyclopedia" by Steve and Linda Dashew. It is expensive but has more information than you can want. I have read it several times (and at over 1600 small print pages a chore) but it has helped me immensely in offshore situations. 
All fun and well but hopefully these threads have some useful info too!


----------



## smackdaddy

Thanks Skip. I actually just finished reading "Desparate Voyage" by John Caldwell (Charlie recommended it). It is, hands down, the most incredible sailing story I've ever read (and I've read a lot of them lately - Fastnet, Heavy Weather Sailing, Proving Grounds, etc.).

I went back and edited my previous post. I didn't mean "scare". BFSers don't scare easily. Their knuckles just get a little whiter.


----------



## TSOJOURNER

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - this kid FREAKIN' ROCKS!!! Talk about BFS!
> 
> FRED - YOU ARE THE MAN! I honestly have a great deal of respect for your sailing abilities. Seriously. I hope me and my sons learn to sail half as good as you. Great work, dude!


you like? tomorrow we go again for training. and I make more one video with my dad

but there were my friends also sailing, they are good too, ok?


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## craigtoo

Awesome stuff Fred.

I look forward to the next video....!

Learn Every Day!

All the best and good luck...!


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## Bene505

Fred,

You are a very good sailor. Keep the pictures coming.

Also, what do you do when you flip?

Regards


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## mrwuffles

Fred doesnt flip hes invinsible!!!!!!!


----------



## TSOJOURNER

no.

I flip sometimes.    

But now I capsize less than before    sometimes I sail 2 months and no capsize, but sometimes I capsize 2 times in one day.

but yesterday i fell of my boat:laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher

I miss the foot strap when I went outside, and fell of the boat.  :laugher :laugher   duh

so I climb again on the boat, from the stern, near the rudder so I don't capzise again.  

look of the video I climb to the boat...my friends come to help if I need, because the water was bad. but I sayed I am ok, lets go again.  

http://i212.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid212.photobucket.com/albums/cc65/giuliettacsc2/FELLOFF.flv


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## TSOJOURNER

and this is Luis with his new teeths


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## pmoreira

smackdaddy said:


> pmo - welcome! Great BFS stories, dude. And I for one am glad to see a fellow newish sailor battling elements and ignorance just like I do! Of course, I'm still stuck on a lake - so you win.
> 
> In the end, I truly admire your willingness to throw up a #1 in 25 knots. That's truly a big freakin' sail, brother! Kudos!


Sorry to dissapoint you there, but it wasn't my willingness... it was the boat owners that decided to use that one... me, I'd prudently have chosen a #2 or #3 right from the start.

I may be getting a little experience dealing with the elements, but I'm very much aware of my limitations... I've just been out sailing 5 or 6 times, about 4 hours at a time. Portuguese does not equal insane...


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## smackdaddy

Here you go T. It's all ready for you. Fire away!


----------



## mrwuffles

Wow smackdaddy your really into this one...


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## smackdaddy

Naaa, wuffles. I "Took it to FC". If he wants more it'll stay there where it belongs.

Anyway, BFS is about sailing. And everyone's got the right to throw down.

Speaking of, didn't I hear you got "totally salt faced" on your last sail? I think we've just invented a new term.


----------



## mrwuffles

LOL ya bene 505 has a pic hopefully he'll post it soon that is a good term you should start a BFS dictionary dont forget all the different meanings for BFS if you do


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## Bene505

Here's the picture of mrwufles with salt caked on his face. This was right after we stepped off the boat in Seacliff, NY.


----------



## craigtoo

NICE ONE!

Guuuuiiiii! Oh Guuii!


----------



## smackdaddy

Giu - leave the kid alone. Unless you want payback on your chillin's pics.

Wuffles - dude, you were Totally Salt Faced that day.


----------



## mrwuffles

Ahhhhhh memories...=)


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## craigtoo

Hey Wuff,

Where on the North Shore you out of?


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## mrwuffles

Huntington area thats the biggest town by me


----------



## craigtoo

Cool.. Grew up in Smithtown. Graduated St. A's down there on Wolfhill Rd.

Have a client on 110. I get up there about once a month.. we'll need to meet for a beer (and a sail) when the weather gets nice!


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## mrwuffles

Can't drink beer but love to sail =)


----------



## Bene505

If any sailnetter is ever in lower manhattan during the week, let me know and I'll buy you a beer. Same goes for Long Island on the weekends.


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## craigtoo

Bene505 said:


> If any sailnetter is ever in lower manhattan during the week, let me know and I'll buy you a beer. Same goes for Long Island on the weekends.


Roger that Bene505..!

Maybe I'll pick up the Wuffler and we'll head to the city...! You on the hard yet?

Denby needs to get his butt down from uppity connecticut and we'll have a

NEW YORK SAILNET GATHERING!!!


----------



## smackdaddy

Sweet. If the Easties take the cup - I might just have to present it in person - then drink all your booze.


----------



## craigtoo

smackdaddy said:


> Sweet. If the Easties take the cup - I might just have to present it in person - then drink all your booze.


Awesome....!

Not sure if NY is the BEST place for an Eastie gathering...

MD would be much better.. but ....

If we meet up.. I'm thinking last week in January to be there.... it would be great to hang with a few Sailnetters for a beer or 43.


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## Bene505

If arriving by rail, Penn Station is probably the best spot, since it's really eay to get to. If you are driving, pick a place out on Long Island. I'll be there.


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## craigtoo

I hang in:
Oceanside (I know.. South shore.. but it's Family..)
Carle Place
Smithtown
Huntington
Northport

By and large... Well.. I'm actually a North Shore guy. 

Any other LI guys out there?
oh wait.. lemmie translate

Any utha Loooongeilen guys out dheh?

Maybe... we should start a new thread.. lemmie see what my schedule looks like...


----------



## smackdaddy

Bene505 said:


> If arriving by rail, Penn Station is probably the best spot, since it's really eay to get to. If you are driving, pick a place out on Long Island. I'll be there.


Rail? Driving? I don't think so. I'll be taking my torch. I just got a killer deal on a G4 from some chucklehead at Ford. Sucker.


----------



## Bene505

Sabre -- All are good for me. After December is over. I say we go close to mrwuffles, since he can't drive.

Maybe Giu will sail over and join us. (And this needs to be a new thread, so non-BFS Long Islanders will read it.)

Smack -- got a pull-out in the basement if you need a place to crash.


----------



## craigtoo

Game with the Suffolk meeting.....

Denby could even come via Ferry.


----------



## camaraderie

I may show up there one of these days as an ol' Syosset boy. Hey Wuffles...do we still kick huntington's butt in sports?


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## CalebD

I am glad that Brad finally found the picture of Wade (aka, MrWuffles) with all the salt on his face. The photo doesn't quite do it justice but you get the idea. I am pretty sure that the stuff under his nose is salt and not a booger! He and Bene505's even younger son 'Looey' or Lucas were at the helm while us adults stayed under the Dodger in all the salt spray as we bashed up the LI Sound. 
Cam, glad to see you here. Wuffles is around Northport, my sister lives in Huntington/Cold Spring Harbor area and my mom still has a house in Sea Cliff while I keep my Tartan 27' up at Nyack and live in NYC - so I am all over the area. Drop a line any time you are heading up this way - any of you sailors!
Is the 'BFS Poll' over? Who did I vote for again?
Best to all,
CalebD
I grew up in Sea Cliff (and yes, Cam, Syosset is probably still kicking some butt in league sports) and was finally ordered to take the helm to get us into Hempstead Harbor where I learned to sail. It was a good thing too as I knew where the marina was although on a 50' boat you had better make sure that the owner and Captain is at the helm while docking in a tight inlet with 20 knot winds unless you are a really slick pilot. 
Tuh give CraigToo just ah taste a how we really tawk 'round heah (complete with phonetic spellings): it wuz awright!


----------



## mrwuffles

camaraderie said:


> I may show up there one of these days as an ol' Syosset boy. Hey Wuffles...do we still kick huntington's butt in sports?


Well im in a different district but probably we have a joint boys voleyball team with huntington and i dont think were doin to well. I believe its pronounced Lon-guy-land

if we really wanted we could start that flotilla bene had in mind around here, plenty of pretected anchorage, the whole bay is protected and you can resupply in northport harbor has everything you guys could need, huntington is also close by. Justa thought, I am in for a meeting around here just have to get my parents to approve......but they know some of the guys so we'll see


----------



## Bene505

CalebD said:


> ...
> I grew up in Sea Cliff (and yes, Cam, Syosset is probably still kicking some butt in league sports) and was finally ordered to take the helm to get us into Hempstead Harbor where I learned to sail. It was a good thing too as I knew where the marina was although on a 50' boat you had better make sure that the owner and Captain is at the helm while docking in a tight inlet with 20 knot winds unless you are a really slick pilot.


Don't worry Caleb, I was planning to take the helm. You needed your turn before that took place though. And those wheels are addicting!


----------



## denby

craigtoo said:


> Roger that Bene505..!
> 
> Maybe I'll pick up the Wuffler and we'll head to the city...! You on the hard yet?
> 
> *Denby needs to get his butt down from uppity connecticut and we'll have a
> 
> NEW YORK SAILNET GATHERING!!!*




I don't know if I want to mingle with FLIDS.  Cam do you think it would be safe?


----------



## sailingdog

Get your rabies shot before going... 


denby said:


> [/color][/u][/b]
> 
> I don't know if I want to mingle with FLIDS.  Cam do you think it would be safe?


----------



## denby

smackdaddy said:


> Sweet. If the Easties take the cup - I might just have to present it in person - *then drink all your booze*.


Smack,

I thought you were buying.


----------



## denby

Thanks Dawg,

Very good idea.  If they come up with a plan to meet maybe we can go down there together.


----------



## craigtoo

hey.. yooou goddafreegin problem? wassamatta you? cuneddicut boy godda freegin problem? 

how'bout'chu take dat liddle mustang yoahz down da DPA? Huh?
'whaddaboudat? dunno where da Deer Paak Ave is huh? howbout you google DPA howboudat?

fuggedaboudit. I R O C baby.


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## Bene505

I'm thinking late January. We meet in Huntington, NY at a local watering hole. Friday or Saturday night. Which one works for everyone?


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## craigtoo

Before Jan 6 - 25 I'm in Europe...

I'll be in NY Jan 26 - 30th. But I fly out the 30th to the AFOC gathering in Chicago. That's a Friday....  

Huntington is PERFECT though.


----------



## Bene505

So there really is an AFOC meeting in Chicago? I thought it was all talk. How much of an AFOC do you have to be to attend???

Let's shoot for February then. Friday would probably be the best day to do it.


----------



## Giulietta

here real BFS for you......unedited...raw.....fast....

noe that's sail trim for you!!!!

enjoy...I did...


----------



## mrwuffles

Giu your flag was in the water what kind of speed is that


----------



## smackdaddy

*BFS Roundup 2008*

Okay - here's the BFS from this year. Since we've only got a few more weeks on the voting - I thought I'd help out the lazy butts and pull it up to the top.

Remember, it's about QUALITY NOT QUANTITY. So, we're not so much looking for "prolific" as we are looking for "gnarly". In other words, some categories have tons of sailors - but some of the sails are just plain pathetic, which, in turn, negates some of the the ones that are really good in that category. For example, my pathetic attempts negate wheresthebrakes, or Sailaway21's howling knockdown negating TJ's killer throwdown. You have to see the big picture here.

So - you be the judge. Read and vote. Who gets the cup?

*Westies*
CharlieCobra1
CharlieCobra2
CharlieCobra3
artbyjody1
CharlieCobra4
SimonV
GeorgeB1
Ccam
Stillraining1
Blt2ski1
jrd22
Stillraining and erps
erps
artbyjody2
artbyjody3
CharlieCobra4
GeorgeB2
sww9141
sww9142
GeorgeB3
CharlieCobra6
GeorgeB4
erps2
Stillraining2
CharlieCobra7

*Easties*
Knothead1
jaschrumpf1
Knothead2
jas2
DrB
davidpm
ChucklesR1
Painkiller
JohnPollard1
JeffH
CalebD1
CalebD2
Cam1
Cam2
Painkiller2
ChucklesR2
Genieskip**
nealmc
JohnPollard2
dell30rb
bene505
CalebD3
skipperb1
skipperb2
skipperb3
mrwuffles

*Gulfies*
PBZeer
Cardiacpaul

*Supernorthies*
CaseyJones1
Valiente1
Valiente2
farmboy1
farmboy2
farmboy3
Valiente3
Valiente4
farmboy4

*Supersouthies*
chall031
chall032

*Eurpies*
Giulietta1
Giulietta2
Duckduckgoose
Giulietta3
Giulietta4
Giulietta5
Optimania1
Giulietta6
Giulietta7
Giulietta8
Giulietta9
Giulietta10
Optimania2
pmoreira1
pmoreira2
Optimania3
Optimania4
Giulietta11

*Others*
Smackdaddy1
Smackdaddy2
T34C
Sailortjk11
Sailortjk12
sgkuhner
wheresthebrakes
Sway got knocked down. But he doesn't want to talk about it.


----------



## sailingdog

Hey GUU—

Your hull needs cleaning.


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## Bene505

Smack,

You are AMAZING!! The poll should be "Who's the best BFS proponent, supporter, and yes, instigator?" You would win hands down!!! Nice job on the summary. I bet that took some work to put together.

Regards


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## goboatingnow

smackdaddy asked me to post some if my BFS's 

But I have a quandary

DO i tell the one that include the fight that broke out in the storm, or the one with the regilious guy that felt his god has abandoned him in a howling gale , the one with the crazed polish guy, the one where in another storm a crew mate was convinced the slashed down dinghy was going to kill us all and wanted to cut it looses ( he never have been seen again). then theres the crazed spainish fishermen story

How do I tell them without being sued!!

Okay heres one , I have no picture evidence as any pictures I have are of nice sails, in my experience the last thing in a storm you see is a man with a camera


OK heres one that wont get me hung.

We were sailing from Gijon to Bayona in Northern Spain , along what is known as the Costa Murde, the bottom is littered with wrecks. ( stay with me the reason why is evident) This was a November delivery and there was three of us. We had had a very "eventful" Biscay crossing from Brest in France, "eventful" doesnt mean anytime nice at all happened, but thats a story where I'll get sued if I tell it.

Anyway, we have F8-F10s the whole time, its was so wild arriving in Gijon we couldnt get into the marina betcause the wave trains in the fairway would have bounced us off the bottom, so we went into the commercial port.. long story involving customs, men with guns, wrong paperwork, whiskey, rats ( the four legged types etc). Any way the following day we moved into the marina, it was so windy that we had to reverse into the wind to get the stern onto the dock. Get the picture lots of winds , ogh did I remind you its was November, no other fools were out.

Anyway we set off for Bayona, which is "round the corner", past Finisterre, thoese of you who know this place, know that its a proverial basta4d of a place, every wind god in the place vacations there.

Anyway we're off La Corruna , its 1am in the morning , next minute we effectively been chased in the middle of a storm by sets of crazed and drunk spainish fishermen, whos idea of fun is to play chicken with a yacht with storm sails up. we cant really maneavour and they run at us and then veer away. 

I forgot to mention there was three of us and one of them had never sailed before, to protect the innocent and cover up the guilty I'll call them fred and bill and me ( GBN) ( bill has an experienced sailor) This incident with the spainish fishermen didn't do fred ( hes the one thats never sailed before) health any good at all as you can imagine, ( oh I mentioned he had come through the biscay crossing as well.

Fred " does this type of thing happen a lot", I mean cant we report them, did you see the guy leaning out of the wheelhouse, I taught they were going to kill us"

Me to fred " Yeah happens alot you get used to it" ( doesnt and you dont)

At this point the first knockdown occurred, spreaders in the water. You know its quite comforting becuase at least the now vertical cockpit floor shelter you from the damm wind and the spray. Had I mentioned it was a beam sea. a big beam sea, ( runing downwind here would end you up in somebodys living room)

Anyways, I got to 10 in my count and she righted , I think a pile of water in the main slowed her. She came up just as the second big wave washed over us, 1 second earlier, and that would have 360'd us.

At this stage we're a wee bit wet, (in the way that the space station is a wee bit above the ground.)

Me " Fred this is fairly uncool",we're liable to get more possible knockdowns and if happens or we get a 360 its likely that anyone on deck will get hurt"

Fred " ur umm, oookaay" 

Anyways Bill pops his head through the companionway , spluttering what the fu6k was that etc etc , you know with that crazed wild look. Seemingly he feels that being accelerated out of his bunk, seemingly complete with the remains of the lee cloth and grasping the mattress, and being dumped against the port forward bulkhead isnt like... fun!!.

why by the way do people always ask " what the fu&k was that " etc, when as plain as day , you just managed to put a 45 foot boat, on its ear and tried as best you can to remove the standing rigging. ! huh why do they ask you you wonder, what do they want, a letter beforehand.

Bill " the bloddy batteries are loose dont you know". 

Me "Really ... thats not bad considering, I gather the lee cloth supports failed as well"

Bill " goddamm galley a mess too" ( I think we had "forgot" to wash up the dishes)

Bil then gives Fred the man on deck will be injured speech. I'm beginning think we might be "overloading" fred a bit but what the heck he's only 47 and a middle ranking executive at some law firm..


Bill " fred , tell you what , lets just have one man in the cockpit , you go below take a torch and wedge yourself in somewhere and be ready to help GBN if she turtles, remember wel'l loose the damm batteries next time so we wont have any light , it will be up to you as GBN is likely to be hurt."

Fred " uuuurrr ummmmmm okaaaaay" ( I reminded of the airplane movie where loyd bridges says Got a cigarette Nelson? I can't take much more of this. looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines)

Later on night the wind went from mildy crazed to completly bonkers. This is a coast where the atlantic goes basically from a zillions miles deep to like 3 feet in like 10 feet or something and we had a 3000 mile fetch and the wind was westerly. Youd think we should have known better, but hey were delivery crew, completely dispensible, badly paid, ( there was pay, somebody got paid no one told me!), overeducated, middle class lowlife sailers, you know the type , you see them in marinas all over the globe, drinking their stiiinking cocktails.

Anyways me feeling all macho and in control alone on the burning deck ,err I decide that I stand the watch through into dawn and let Bill get a good sleep in a now heavily modified berth ( as in hes lashed in with some spare halyard, modified)

The rest of the night passes uneventfully and we round finnisterre without any futher drama, that is if you think that two partial broachs and a very very close almost chineese jibe isnt "any drama". anyways the wind dies back a bit as after about half way through the watch and as dawn approachs and at this stage I done nearly 6 hours on the wheel with two life lines holding me tri-angulated ( some might say strangulated) behind the wheel. Its was the longest, crasyist period I have ever spent on watch and I was actually hallucinating near the end.

The hatch flies open and Bill refreshed after his bit of S&M with the berth mistress comes out and lectures the hell out of me about letting him sleep. Did I mention that Bill had four eyes and eight fluffy ears.

Bill " go below sleep idiot"

"OK". Below its still gloomy, but the motions fairly calm ( in comparison) and the batteries seemed to have decided that the their box is a reasonable place to live cause they stayed there.

Anyways I fall over the form of Fred, still after close to 7 hours schrunged up on the galley sole, wedged to prevent him moving , still clutching the torch, wide eyed

"Fred oh sh1t, I forgot to tell you that is was fine and when things calmed down ,to go to bed, you ok"

Fred" Oh yeah, just doing what you guys told me, ready to spring into action in the event of injury" ( middle managers take their jobs sooo seriously dont they)

" OK fred all over get up go to bed, bill will do a few hours solo" ( maybe a week or so)

Fred " eh cant , " 

"why not"
Fred " no feeling, cant move legs numb, pain heeelp"

Suffice to say it took fred two hours to fully regain the use of his legs. and the wild look got much worse ( perhaps another airplane sketch is needed, no oh ok )

Later when Bill and I exchanged watchs 

fred says " Jes7s , you guys are the bigest bunch of fu6king lunatics Ive ever met"

So ended a great day

did I mentioned that the dolphins turned up after all the fun was over


----------



## sailingdog

Actually, Fred is far more amazing than his dad, since he does BFS in a boat that would fit down the companionway on his dad's boat.


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## mrwuffles

^^^i most certainly agree


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## Giulietta

A new horse may run faster..but an old horse knows his way around the track better...

Fred will be by far better than me...as he will not make my mistakes...I am here making sure of that....

however, where Fred is now..his dad was 33 years ago, with worse heavier boats..remember that...


----------



## smackdaddy

goboatingnow said:


> DO i tell the one that include the fight that broke out in the storm, or the one with the regilious guy that felt his god has abandoned him in a howling gale , the one with the crazed polish guy, the one where in another storm a crew mate was convinced the slashed down dinghy was going to kill us all and wanted to cut it looses ( he never have been seen again). then theres the crazed spainish fishermen story...


Gobo, let me answer your questions as simply as possible....yes.

Now as for this particular BFS....freakin' awesome. I figured you had some stories in your sea chest, dude.

I'm kind of likin' "Tale of the Deadly Dinghy" next.

Finally, as for the photo stuff - you're right. You don't see just a whole lot of photos of really insane sails. Go figure. So I take those calls with a grain of salt.

HOWEVER, there is a CRAZY photo by Jerome Poncet in "Heavy Weather Sailing" where he snaps a shot from the rigging while in the midst of a knockdown! Boat's on here ear, buried in white water, he's stuck in the shrouds, and he's thinking snapshot!


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## sailingdog

But do you have photos of it??? We've got photos of Fred out there in his Opti, mainly thanks to a very proud poppa... 


Giulietta said:


> A new horse may run faster..but an old horse knows his way around the track better...
> 
> Fred will be by far better than me...as he will not make my mistakes...I am here making sure of that....
> 
> however, where Fred is now..his dad was 33 years ago, with worse heavier boats..remember that...


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## Bene505

Guys, the Fred in the story was not the same Fred as the one who sails his Opti in high winds.


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## Giulietta

Bene..we know that..or at least ..I do...

Dog..how in the hell would I get Fred's photos if I wasn't there to take them??? From the shore? With a super duper camera?


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## sailingdog

GUI-

I was asking if you had photos of you sailing at the age of 10... 


Giulietta said:


> Bene..we know that..or at least ..I do...
> 
> Dog..how in the hell would I get Fred's photos if I wasn't there to take them??? From the shore? With a super duper camera?


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## GBurton

Have not read the whole thread so don't know if this link to a video of PRB in the Vendee globe (not this years event) has ever been posted.

YouTube - PRB IN ACTION


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## smackdaddy

G, that was freakin' sweet. That route - around both horns - oh, man. Those are some BFSers for sure. Thanks for the link.

Now read the whole thread for crying out loud! Or at least click through the best of the best on the page 85 summary.

I'm still envious of your red square.


----------



## mrwuffles

Bene505 said:


> I'm thinking late January. We meet in Huntington, NY at a local watering hole. Friday or Saturday night. Which one works for everyone?


sorry that got ignored.....That sounds fine for me asked parents said we could arrange for transportation for me so it doesnt have to be right here but it might be a good central place, if people are coming from ct they can take the ferry and port jeff is a half hour away......any other opinions? im already going crazy from this whole winter thing without anything to sail when i wanna get outta the house......hopefully i get in a lot of sailing next year


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## smackdaddy

I've been following the Vendee Globe and - WOW - them's some BIG sails!

So with winter settling in up north - it's up to the Supersouthies to pick up the global BFS slack.

Chall, tdw, Simon, Ccam - we're counting on you gentlemen.


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## bubb2

One of my favorite sailing video's
[URL="http://



[/URL]


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## ckgreenman

Very cool video Bubb. Leg 3 starts on Dec 13th


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## smackdaddy

Bubb - SWEET video! Man that looks fun. How fast do you think those guys are going? They look like their cranking. Maybe even as fast as Giu!

BTW - what's "nds"? I know Sway may starting pissing saltwater at my ignorance here, but I've not seen this before. All the Vendee boats' speed is being measured in "nds".

You guys should see the interactive map at their site. It's pulling the GPS data from each boat for "real time" tracking. It has weather overlays, routing, play back. Very sweet.


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## Bene505

Those guys are cranking! It's humbling to think what BFS means to some people.


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## bubb2

smackdaddy said:


> Bubb - SWEET video! Man that looks fun. How fast do you think those guys are going? They look like their cranking. Maybe even as fast as Giu!


Smack, the open 70's can reach close to 30 knots and maintain 20+. What gets me is the wakes these boats throw and the lines the drivers hold in the seas they are sailing in.. (straight as an arrow) It is poetry in motion!!!


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## smackdaddy

Bene505 said:


> Those guys are cranking! It's humbling to think what BFS means to some people.


Yeah! But that's what makes it so freakin' cool! The "BFS Continuum" - it's ALWAYS big to each sailor 'til they've been through it a few times - then they get confident and are hit by something bigger and wet their foulies! All the while, there are still others out there that think those same conditions are not all that scary. And so on.

You gotta LOVE sailing, man!


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## smackdaddy

bubb2 said:


> Smack, the open 70's can reach close to 30 knots and maintain 20+. What gets me is the wakes these boats throw and the lines the drivers hold in the seas they are sailing in.. (straight as an arrow) It is poetry in motion!!!


Bubb, you should really go check out the interactive map at the Vendee site. It's interesting to see the "flocking" of the boats as they round the Cape - and the way they hold similar lines. BTW - one of them was dismasted this morning. Ouch.

Still poetry.


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## smackdaddy

HOLY CRAP! I just stumbled across an INSANE BFS...in the Cruiser forum no less! It was so good, it even had Giu crying' MDB before there was MDB. Of course, the evidence then came out and quieted the crowd...

I call this Eastie the "Big Kahuner" - check out his mojo:



sgkuhner said:


> In 1974 my wife, Kitty, and I were sailing from St Thomas to New York in July. We were completing a three year circumnavigation in our 30 foot Allied Seawind Ketch. Half way between Hatteras and Bermuda, we got hit by a hurricane and at 0200 July 14, while lying ahull in 85 kts of wind, a huge wave came and we fell off the top of it. When we hit the water it seemed as though the whole boat exploded. Actually the main hatch was blown off, as were the teak grab rails on the cabin top, the spray dodger, the wind-vane self-steering device and the stanchions on the lee side were flattened against the cabin top. When we righted, the water was up to the level of the bunks. Luckily we had the most efficient bilge pump in the world, ...a frightened woman with a bucket! While Kitty got us bailed dry, I bolted a piece of plywood over the companionway hatch opening. There was no time to even think about how much peril we were in. We just did what we had to and by 1100 the next day the wind was down to a mere 35 kts.
> 
> First, we always keep our life raft on the floor in the cockpit and have a piece of plywood supported by fids fastened to either side of the cockpit well jut below the sail locker hatches. Had the life raft been kept on deck it would have been torn off the cabin top by the force of the water. It was that piece of plywood we used to cover the companionway hatch that was ripped off.
> 
> The main boom, which had been sheeted tight to the mizzen mast, was severely bent. Using a block and tackle secured to the toe-rail and the boom we were able to almost straighten it out. By 1200 (the knockdown was at 0200) the wind was down to 35 kts and we were able to set a storm jib, a reefed main and the mizzen. (I believe that we did not lose the rig because we had re-rigged in New Zealand with galvanized rigging three sizes larger than what was on there as it was the only wire available at the time)
> 
> With that rig we sailed into New York harbor and after cleaning up the engine, I was able to get it started (the engine was an 18 hp Albin diesel that I could hand crank) to get through Hells gate and around to City Island. The next day we sailed to Westport CT our home port and spent the rest of the summer fixing our 30 foot Allied Seawind Ketch "Bebinka" and in the fall we sailed her back to St Thomas to spend another winter in the Caribbean. Below (if I have figured out how to do this, I have posted a picture of what the interior looked like the morning after the knockdown
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what the deck looked like after the knockdown.


Easties - if this doesn't give you guys a big push for the Cup - nothing else will!


----------



## johnshasteen

Okay SmackDaddy, here's Paloma's BFS adventure. Pictures of her back in port, go to the photo gallery and search Paloma.
Thursday March 06, 2008, three of us, all seasoned blue water sailors sailed Paloma, my Bristol 29.9, out of Port Isabel and around the bottom of South Padre Island, just North of the Rio Grande River and the Mexican border, laying for Freeport about 250 miles to the ENE. It was the perfect sailing weather - we were in shorts and polo shirts, on a broad reach in 15 knot SE winds, beautiful 5-7 foot seas and 70 degree weather - the only thing missing was a Jimmy Buffett CD on the stereo.
Later in the day we got a Coast Guard weather alert, small craft immediately make for the nearest port, there was a Northerly cold front (the one that dumped all the snow in mid-west mid-week) moving our way at 35 miles per hour packing internal winds of 50-60, gusting higher, seas quickly building to over 20 feet. Paloma is a not a small craft, but a second-generation Bristol, built and equipped to go anywhere in any weather, and since the weather report was coming from Coast Guard South Padre Island, we thought we could head more easterly and possibly get on the other side of al least the brunt of the storm. No such luck, around 6:30pm we got hit full force by the front, coming like a freight train. It slammed us from a 15 degree heel to port through a 100 degree arc, down to starboard port lights in the water all the way up to the handrails and the sails in the water before we rounded up into the wind and could start the engine and start dropping sail. On the initial hit, the main, still dumping water, hung up in the spreaders and tore, at the same time we lost cotter pins on the port and starboard upper stays and we couldn't haul the main more than about 3/4 of the way down. Then as bad luck and Murphy's Law would have it, a jib sheet got of control and went under the boat, tangling in the prop, stopping the engine. Now came the decisions not in the "game plan".
We made the only possible decision, to turn south and run bare poles before the storm. From the point we turned, about 35-40 miles NE of the Rio Grande, we screamed down wind in what we thought were 18 - 20 foot following seas (later the Coast Guard told us they were 28 - 30 feet) and winds 50-60 and gusting over 60 ( a Force 10 storm, precisely as promised by the Coast Guard) for 36 hours. The stern and bimini were plenty of sail and it was a wild ride being pushed along by the seas, hitting over 10mph (from the GPS) when sliding down the face of the seas. It was a strain to keep Paloma tracking, so we couldn't stay on the helm more than an hour at a time and we knew if we turned beam to the wind, we would likely broach. When anyone went below for an all too short, one-hour rest, they could only nap on the cabin sole - even that was comfortable after two hours in the cockpit. The winds were cold, but when waves broke into the cockpit, the water was warm. We kept wondering when the storm would abate - actually we just kept wondering if we were going to end up in Vera Cruz.
When the winds finally abated and shifted back to SE, we were about 135 miles down and 70 miles east of the Mexican coastline - we had been blown 180 miles off our original rhumb line, no engine and only a 110 working jib. During the short calm of the wind shift, we untangled the line around the prop, by starting the engine in neutral then putting the engine in reverse and pulling like crazy on the line trying to unwind it - after two tries, thank goodness it worked. We now had a working jib and an engine (if we needed it) - not a bad combination to turn and run North in what ended up being a much more comfortable 15-20 knot SE winds and 8-10 foot seas - still a chore to keep her on track with only a working jib and making hull speed and better when shoved by the following seas, but easily manageable.
The closest <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on">US</st1:country-region> landfall was <st1lace w:st="on">South Padre Island</st1lace> about 135 miles NNW and by mid-day Sunday we were in sight of the buildings on the island.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>


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## smackdaddy

Dude, you just put the Gulfies on the freakin' map! And if you ever need crew - let me know. I could learn a lot from you. And it would be well worth the drive from Austin. No doubt.

Great BFS, John!


----------



## Giulietta




----------



## Bene505

Very nice Giu. You are keeping this thread alive in December. Wait, aren't you in Wisconsin?


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## T37SOLARE

Bene505 said:


> Very nice Giu. You are keeping this thread alive in December. Wait, aren't you in Wisconsin?


After much deliberation and thought, Alex has decided to relocate his family and the s/v Giuettea to Montana so they too can enjoy the delightful thing we here call Winter.

After maybe a week or two of this winter thing they too will come to the conclusion that *WINTER SUCKS*


----------



## johnshasteen

Feliz Navidad y Feliz Año Nuevo. It's Christmas Eve and a balmy 75 degrees down here in Corpus Christi.


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## smackdaddy

Same to ya John. I'll be out this weekend myself (in Austin) - and will hopefully be taking CharlieCobra out for a BFS around New Year's. I'm prayin' for a gale!


----------



## smackdaddy

Ahhhhh....75 degrees today. Steady 20-25, with frequent gusts to 36. Nothin' but good times baby. Biggest wind I've been in to date - and I think I'm kinda diggin' this stuff.

We obviously humiliated the windsurfer dude with our blinding speed and sailing prowess.

I wonder what this would be like with real waves? Hmmm.










And some nutjob in a Hunter kept getting his spreaders wet with just a furled head sail. We just sailed a slow circle around him and taunted him mercilessly...you can just make out the boat's name if you look closely - "Sailaway". Heh-heh.


----------



## mrwuffles

woah I didn know you actually sailed smackdaddy.


----------



## CalebD

Hey Smackie,
Nice photos of your lake. Nice winds too. That windsurfer must have been cursing you as you sailed circles around him in your Catalina 27! I have sailed a windsurfer in over 15 knot breezes so I know who was running circles around whom as long as the windsurfer dude wasn't wiping out doing his tacks or gibes. If you really have the need for speed I suggest you try windsurfing sometime as it is a blast once you master it but is harder to master then many things.
You did not say whether or not you had your main reefed down even a little. On my Tartan 27' in those kinds of wind our boat handles better and flatter with a reef in the main and still hits hull speed. None of the photos gives away your angle of heel but does show the Hunter with only partial jib heeled way over. IMHO he would have sailed faster and flatter with a reefed main and jib then just the genoa.
Many people like the genoa only approach to sail trim but for me and my boat we both prefer to use both main and jib reefed and furled a bit. Of course it can be fun to bury the rail and test the chain plates and rigging by using full sails in winds like you had but it is also good practice to go through the reefing exercise in preparation for even stronger winds.
Sounds like a fun sail. So, did you reef?


----------



## Bene505

CalebD said:


> ... If you really have the need for speed I suggest you try windsurfing sometime as it is a blast once you master it but is harder to master then many things...


Agree windsurfing is tough if you don't get a lesson. It's a LOT easier if you have a lesson than trying to figure it out yourself.


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey wuffles - what I do I wouldn't necessarily call "sailing". But it'll do.

Caleb - yeah - that windsurfer was furious.....ly sailing circles around me. I learned to windsurf in Fiji. It was okay - but I found it too hard to drink my rum and surf at the same time so I gave it up. As for "reefing"...I've heard that term before. What does it mean again?


----------



## CalebD

Smacky,
I have to agree about windsurfing and enjoying your rum or beverage of choice. It takes a lot of exertion by many muscles to keep you going on a windsurfer and even a small amount of alcohol would make my muscles want to give up sooner and head back to the beach for a refill and call it a day. That is certainly one of the beautiful things about keel boating in that you usually only have to spend a lot of energy over short periods. Keeping drinks from sloshing around the cockpit and decks is one good reason for reefing the sails on your boat. It sounds like the only things that were 'reefed up' on the boat were you and your crew! Wish I could have been there and helped you properly reef!
Not to harp on the 'Mr. Safety' stuff but just wait till the winds get a bit more furious then what you were out in. You really need to know how to reef the sails before you actually have to do it. 
That photo with the windsurfer in it shows the surface of the water pretty clearly that indicates wind speeds of well over 25 knots or so. We had slightly higher winds and approximately the same distance from shore back in Nov. on Bene505's boat and there were 4 - 6' swells. 
Keep on smackin'.


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay, okay, Caleb - I reefed. Okay? I reefed. I am Smackdaddy - and I'm a POS. Heh-heh.

We were flying only a single-reefed main. It was actually very mellow and controllable. And the traveler finally started to make sense. So I guess you guys may be on to something.

It was pretty educational watching the dude in the Hunter get thrown around while we were taking it easy and hammering Sailor Jerrys.

Had I not had a hank-on jib, I would have been tempted to unfurl a patch of headsail to rub it in a bit. But it stayed in the bag. All in all it was a confidence builder. I liked the challenge of being out in big wind. It makes you pay attention.

Even so, I still respect you guys that actually have to deal with waves on top of those kinds of winds (Chall, George, Wuffles, Valiente, Skip, Bene, DDG, etc.). 2 footers in that kind of blow is pure luxury.

I may pretend I don't listen to you guys - but sometimes I actually take your advice. Sometimes.

PS - T, do you think this qualifies us "Others" (i.e. - lake sailors) for another point or two? I mean, we are sucking in the standings!


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## CalebD

Smacky,
Reefing is more a badge of honor then of idiocy. Yes, perhaps I was pushing you on that point but once you do it it makes so much sense. 
Since you have a hank on system for your jib you should see if you can get a small collection of jibs to use in different winds. Most people are willing to unload their old hank on jibs for cheap as they have installed roller furling (lazy Jack's adjustable jib). Many 27' boats jibs would fit your Catalina. Hank on jibs of different sizes actually shape better then most roller furlers will if you are up for the task. You would also really be rocketing across the water in those winds with a small jib and 1 reef in the main. It still sounds like a good sail and since you actually admitted to "reefing" I really would have liked to have been there. 
That guy in the Hunter was getting a bad beating in those winds with just the partially furled genny (too much heel causing a lee helm to boot).
Sloop rigged boats were meant to be sailed with 2 sails which is why they sell strorm jibs and tri-sails so you can still make some headway with just a hankerchief of sail up (on both sails). 
I have sailed my Tartan 27' with just the main and it works just fine and is easily controlled but you do not get the forward (and upwind) thrust without some kind of jib. On my nearly full keeled boat I prefer to use a main only rather then just go with the jib unless going downwind.
Another sail you should check out is the spinnaker, even a symmetrical one. I bet you could also get one to use on your boat for real cheap. Going downwind with the spin flying is a bit like a sleigh ride. I'm not sure how much room you have to try this on your lake but it looks like you should be able to do it given the right wind direction (eg., maximum wind fetch direction).
Keep pushing the envelope Smackie; while we are all still learning and breathing.
What liquids make up a "Sailor Jerry"?


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## artbyjody

Smack.. oh smack..

You know the new year is almost upon us and finally after months you are imparting posts that do show some semblance of taking advice.

I'll let you in on a secret - as I know you are kinda teaching yourself..as I did on my C-27. We share eh a bond..

On MY C-27, I went as far as Kevlar sails for the genoa and the main. She was a patio sculpture though with more BBQ's than that one moderator that remains so eloquently named. She had more high tech gear onboard than that boat that got nailed by a 30 footer in SF.. it has a really cool name abnd dwarfed that little unlucky sob.

Fact is, honestedly - as long as you practice what others are reaching out to you to practice - all goes well.

Last Snowbird Race, we couldn't hail the RC on the VHF (they just were not listening).. Winds 25-30 with 10-15 gusts and seastate that had waves from 2-7 feet. Luckily - we pulled in to the gas dock prior to the start of the race to pick up a crew member whom was not waiting, put in the double reef on the main and dropped the genoa and let loose the storm sail.

I'll be honest here.

ONce during a summer cruise - we went through the reefing scenario in mock form. It was mainly due to loosing steering and somehow without the key in the wheel lock we made it out and it didn't matter until we actually had to steer - that that training came about. Which was good for me - as I had never reefed in my life.

My C-27- **** got nasty - drop the sails , motor and live to see the next day.

Now I am attractin better sailors and I myself am becoming better.. normally I wouldn't reef below 30 knots if its just steady. However, from racing, learned gusts ruin your day unless you have crew that see it coming and pump the sails the way they should be. So, before going out in conditions - double reef and know that its easier to release a reef point than it is to put on in.

Reefing is not a excuse from a badge of honor but is the badge of honor. You get more control, can fly heavier sails forward and still maintain. MY suggestion - is start taking others out with knowing as skipper - you have an objective. The more you know - the better you communicate and overall the better you will handle that boat of yours. 

Take it from observation of your own... 

It takes both the main and the storm or whatever jib you run forward to truly maintain the boat in less than desirable conditions. Yes, you'll see some that only run a storm jib - but notice how they seemingly pitchpole in waves. See those that run a reefed main only and you'll see them bobbing like cork being blown by a drunk woman (great time until you wake up and see )

Its all about understanding your boat. The one thing I can say about a C-27 - never let me down, but she is finicky. She can be dialed in - but sometimes it means the third reef (and you should on yours have four IMHO unloess the reef points are on a newer design and deeper)... 

In short - reefing is not a taboo - its common sense. When we were out the other weekend - double reef main - storm jib, we easily did 7 knots and had control the entire time. Its not something to knock as quite frankly - it'll probably save your life when you understand the overall dynamics and get over trying to prove a point... Heeling absurdly is great for photos not so much for those trying to control things.. and you have the tools and knowledge to: if you take that overly heeled boat you posted pics of with a 140 and full main - to do the same and not be heeled with a double reef and maybe a 110.

It all comes with exposure to actually doing it my friend....


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## smackdaddy

Okay - today was a freakin' blast - in more ways than one. I sailed with the legendary xxxx, and it actually turned into a BFS. Go figure.

After he went around and found a million things horribly wrong with my boat (and kindly helped fix each one - thanks dude) - we set out. Steady 15-20 out of the SW. Nice stuff.

With xxxx, a sailing buddy of mine, and myself pushing each other around the cockpit and cursing loudly, we worked our way to Windy Point - then further NNW for another mile or 2. Then the New Year's regatta started filling in just as we were beating back SSE. Suckers.

We sliced right through them as they were warming up prior to the start - and with the sails trimmed better than they ever have been (thanks to xxxx) we were actually blowing by those chuckleheads. I kid you not. And they were even going the same direction as us! Crazy!

Now, granted, they are lake racers and they weren't totally in the zone yet - but let's just say with our showing today, we'll be racing this summer.

As I was just completing my full moon of those in our wake, we saw a lovely gray cloud bank ahead to the NW and some nice strong gusts headed our way. We trimmed up, got even more speed, and freakin' flew that Catalina, dirty bottom and all! Then, of course, we got slammed by a bigger gust (30 we'd guess) and BOOOOM!

We busted our freakin' jib!!!! Is that just too awesome??? Ahh, what a day. Then it was back to the slip for more beer and cigars.

This sailing gig is just about the best damn thing ever! Seriously.

Thanks xxxx. Great advice, great company, great sailin'. You da man!

Here are the photos (heavily redacted of course):

Let's see - who in the regatta is left in front of us? Oh that's right - no one!









Sailing the hell right on out of yer boat, baby!


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## denby

Smack,

Looks like a good time, That's a good boat to learn on. Good luck with her and fare winds.


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## blt2ski

Do you have a tall or std rig C27? Jody has some kevlar sails for a tall rig he might like to get rig of. Let you go a bit faster yet! 

Glad you got out sailing today, had mixed rain and snow yesterday, rain today with some cloudy stuff only. Let Charlie know, not much weather wise but normal gray and gloom!

marty

Marty


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## smackdaddy

Bluto - standard rig. Sorry about the mush you're in dude. Definitely wish you could have been here.

However, you'll be pleased to know that tomorrow we're headed to Wolf Creek for some skiing and boarding. Should be some sweet powder. Yowza!

I'll try to bring back a Big Freakin' Ski. You should do the same my friend!


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## blt2ski

That will be saturdays job, best part is........I get paid to ski!

I have jody's jib, should find the measurements and see how much difference there is to a std rig. might work for you..........OR PM jody and see if he has measurements for his main too. There North sails, not much use to them, other than the jib he had on when he had the KD's at the FWB race last oct. 

Enjoy the snow, make and "ear to ear" arc for me!

marty


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## CalebD

SnapDraggy,
Nice photos and write up. 
Nice to see a bunch of guys smiling and enjoying ceegars after a tough afternoon of playing in the wind. It is a bit weird how y'all had some kind of black box over your faces but I guess that is my internet connection (can't say I blame you though). 
Anyway, that jib looks in pretty good shape in spite of a few rips. Do you have a sewing kit (official sailors sewing kit that is) on board? If not you should (yes, real sailors actually know how to sew). Something like this: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|5948|599234&id=1058090
Of course you can always take that little thing down and just fire up the I-Ron genny and head back to the dock but hey, what if you felt like waiting for the wind to let up little bit? By the time you had that sucker stitched back up the wind would prolly have died down and you could have sailed back to the dock. JK. Take it to a sail maker just for ****z and grins if you want to see somebody laugh. While you are there get a quote for a replacement sail from them.
I kind of wish I still had the ole hank on jib system that I know my boat came with (we've got the lazy man's Furlex RF system). We also have a nice inventory of the old hank on fore sails which I would unload to you in a hot minute for a cold case or two of beers but I am in NY and you are out there wherever SmackDiddy can be found. I am tellin' ya that there are lots of folks who would be happy to unload their old, unused hank on jibs for not a lot of beer money. 
My own boat is the same length as your C27 but we would want to compare the I,J,P,E numbers to be sure that my sails would be a good match for your rig. For that matter there are a lot more C27s out there then T27s and they probably even have a user group online somewhere where people are selling their hank on jibs 'cause they now have RF. Check it out when you get back from your manly snowboarding escapades.
In the last photo all of those motor boats in the racks seem to be pretty high above the water level. What is up with that? I didn't think you were on Lake Lanier or is the water level down on your lake too? The guy missing one tooth in the photo is you, isn't it? JK. 
You guys might as well have been in the freakin' Reggatta anyway considering the equipment you broke. Racers have a way of breaking stuff each time out and it seems to me you are well along your way to becoming one of 'em.
Good luck with all of that white stuff.


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## painkiller

Smack, you don't look _anything_ like Michael Douglas. You should pick an avatar that resembles you more closely. Sorry SailNet's rules, not mine.


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## CalebD

Found a Catalina 27 jib for you:
SailboatOwners.com - Marketplace - Category - For sale - Catalina 27 6.5oz Club Jib

There is also a spinnaker for sale there as well.


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## CharlieCobra

What is that black box crap on my face? I don't hide from nobody, even here. Smack has a nice little boat and it sails better than I expected. He was right. We were dead in the middle of the fleet when they started and proceeded to walk all of them steadily, multihulls included. As you can see, my cigar got damaged during the sail and needed repair. Unfortunately, it didn't work so I only got to smoke about an inch of it. It was a lively sail and his two handsome young boys were hollerin' as we ripped along.


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## painkiller

Nice!


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## craigtoo

Nothing like shredding a jib! Good one!


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## painkiller

This isn't a Big Freakin' Sail, but it IS a Big Freakin' _Something_. These guys are nuts. They're jumping off mountains wearing wing suits.


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## craigtoo

painkiller said:


> This isn't a Big Freakin' Sail, but it IS a Big Freakin' _Something_. These guys are nuts. They're jumping off mountains wearing wing suits.


Holy Crap. HOLY CRAP!


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## ckgreenman

Looks like an expensive sport. everytime you jump you gotta buy a new pair of skis.


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## craigtoo

ckgreenman said:


> Looks like an expensive sport. everytime you jump you gotta buy a new pair of skis.


and underwear.

HOLY CRAP.!


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## ckgreenman

craigtoo said:


> and underwear.
> 
> HOLY CRAP.!


Nah. just don't wear any and wash the inside of the suit every time


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## billyruffn

This has nothing to do with BFS, but speaking of skiing and underwear (or lack thereof)....have you seen what happened to this poor fellow?
See Skier Suffers Exposure - January 6, 2009 for the full story, but apparently he was exposed to the elements for 15 minutes -- frost bite perhaps?


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## Bene505

Amazing!! That is definitely Big Freakin' Something.



painkiller said:


> This isn't a Big Freakin' Sail, but it IS a Big Freakin' _Something_. These guys are nuts. They're jumping off mountains wearing wing suits.


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## billyruffn

Bene505 said:


> Amazing!! That is definitely Big Freakin' Something.


Actually, I believe it's probably just the opposite. You know what happens when it gets really cold.....:laugher


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## ckgreenman

Brittle Frozen Scrotum


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## craigtoo

Wow.

He who is in 45 degree weather.. .knows nothing of BFS.

I'm NO WHERE NEAR WATER.. .BFS.. EVERY MORNING.


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## ckgreenman

craigtoo said:


> Wow.
> 
> He who is in 45 degree weather.. .knows nothing of BFS.
> 
> I'm NO WHERE NEAR WATER.. .BFS.. EVERY MORNING.


Ahem. Excuse me. it's 43 degrees thank you very much!!!


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## painkiller

Bene505 said:


> Amazing!! That is definitely Big Freakin' Something.


The shot of the guy zipping past that road is just nuts. And I swear they were dragging their fingertips on the mountainside in some of those shots.


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## erps

Now I'm confused. Those are winter time pictures?


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## mrwuffles

I like the blue boat reminds me of an aero rig but way different, wonder how she sails. I would be really interested in the name of this rig.


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## CharlieCobra

It was 81F when I went sailing with Smack. Gorgeous day. Now the Admiral is ready to move to TX. What am I supposed to do with Oh Joy?


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## catamount

Wednesday, June 28 (2006)

(somewhere off the coast of New Jersey enroute from Cape May to Buzzards Bay)

Through the night the winds and seas continued to build. When I came on deck about 4:30, we were making good 8.0 to 8.5 knots and things were getting harder to handle, so we rolled in some jib. As the sun started to rise, the winds got stronger and the seas higher still. We rolled in more jib (the main was already double-reefed).

Soon, we ended up taking the "third-reef" in the main (i.e. dousing it all together) and sailing with just the jib alone, rolled up to a small #4 size. Our course was a close reach, and during the worst of it we were footing off a bit for a somewhat easier ride in the 12-foot "combers." When on top of a wave, looking out across the sea you could see the occasional wave popping up even higher. I guessed that conditions were Force 6 or 7; upon listening to the weather on the radio, the navigator reported that we were in a bona-fide Gale with winds of 35 knots and gusts up to 40.










While the winds and seas were impressive, and I found myself contemplating what the next steps would be should the conditions get even heavier, the boat was really sailing very well (she's a great boat!) and I was having a great time. One of the crew later reported that he kept looking at me and the other experienced crew to see whether he should be scared or not. We of course found the sailing exhilarating, and so did he.

By evening, conditions had moderated significantly, the winds had shifted from southeast to south, and fog had set in. We had decided to press on to Marion, but wanted to make sure we arrived in daylight rather than at night, in the fog. After passing close by the rocks off Cuttyhunk Island (not seeing them in the dark of a foggy night, just hearing the surf), we bore off and ran wing-and-wing up to the ship channel, and then rolled up the jib all the way. We were going too fast! We took a second reef in the main, but were still making over 5 knots, so we over-trimmed the main to try to slow down further.

Thursday, June 29 (2006)

We sailed into Sippican Harbor (Marion) and picked up a mooring (under sail) just off the Beverly Yacht Club at about 5:30 AM, and all turned in. We had just sailed about 260 nautical miles in about 40 hours in our little 34-foot boat.

full story


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## CharlieCobra

Sounds like a nice little sail.


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## WanderingStar

Thanks again Paul.


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## smackdaddy

Wow! CP sailed! I'm speechless! Seriously, very nice photos (especially the eye candy) and write up CP - congrats. And uber-congrats to to WanderingStar for hooking the man up! Now the question, WS, is - did you run your boat down to Florida last week from LI? If so, that definitely deserves a write-up!

And Catamount - respect! I took a look at your link. Great sailing dudes! It's always great to hear about sailors actually "enjoying" the stink when they're in it. Thanks for a great BFS!


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## WanderingStar

Smack, the boat was in Fl, she comes up in the spring. 
Paul was ready to help me move to another slip in Lauderdale, but it wasn't necessary. He's a great guy though.


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## smackdaddy

WS - very cool. Did you just purchase her? Or do you keep her down south for the winter? She looks like a beauty, dude.

In any case, I don't doubt CP is a great guy. And he seems to know a thing or two about boats. I just like to razz him a bit. Of course, I'm on his ignore list - so whaddayagonnado?

Thanks again for the BFS. I have a hunch we'll get another this spring!


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## WanderingStar

Bought her on Halloween. If I work things right, she'll travel south in future years.


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## smackdaddy

She's a beauty WS. Congrats. And have the camera ready for that trip north! I do envy you, dude.

Tell Slinky "hi" for me if you sail with him again.


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## smackdaddy

Okay - I know many of you are freezin' your heinies off on the hard - and I hate to rub anything in (you know me), but I just can't help it.

We had one of the best sailing days ever! 70 degrees, steady 20 knots, flying the full main and a new 170 genny - and just freakin' smokin' across the water! OOOwwwww!

And then, to top it off, we achieved what is for us has been the Holy Grail of Sail - we sailed it into the slip!!!! Like butta!

I'm telling you - this is the best damn life in the world! Who cares about the economy, how young/old we are, who's in office/out of office, who can spell, who's an idiot, whatever?

Nothing like sailing, baby. Nothing!!!

Of course, I'm not gonna like, beat my chest about it or anything. But if CP, PB, Cam, Sway, Giu, Val, Dog, etc. need any sailing tips...I'm here for ya (heh-heh).


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## Giulietta

Nice Smacky..real nice. Like the long foot genoa..looks good

Alex


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## bubb2

Smack, Thanks for the post. you know had to rub it in. It was 3 degrees at midnight here and has been warming up all day. It is now 26 and the ice on the river is only 6 inches thick. I have to say something s*****y just to feel better. Tighten those life lines up!!!!


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## chucklesR

Based on the waters spray from wind and lack of bow wave I'd have to say that looks like maybe 6 kts of wind you are out in there Smaky.

BFS indeed. 

What did you do, shift the beer to leeward all of a sudden to get that heel going for you?


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## CalebD

Smack,
Just glad to see that you have a new jib for yourself. How easy was it to find a replacement or did you have a new one made?
Keep on smackin' those drums!
Enjoy that southern winter which is more like our spring and fall up here in the North East (NE <> Nebraska <> New England?).


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## smackdaddy

chucklesR said:


> Based on the waters spray from wind and lack of bow wave I'd have to say that looks like maybe 6 kts of wind you are out in there Smaky.
> 
> BFS indeed.
> 
> What did you do, shift the beer to leeward all of a sudden to get that heel going for you?


Okay, after your whining and foot-stamping - I went back and checked the lake's weather station report - and I'm now officially busted. It was a steady 15 with gusts to 22.

Of course, I'm going to claim that the evidentiary pic was snapped during a wayward 10 lull. But, the fact that all the beer did indeed slide to port bears out my claim that I was heelin' like a banshee during the prevalent 20's.

6 knots indeed!

Anyway, I've been out in bigger wind (with Charlie - that bad MuthaSkippa). So, I wouldn't desecrate BFS with this particular sail. It was the slip, goofball! We sailed it into the slip! For a greenhorn like me, that's freakin' BIG! (Especially when we have a bottleneck in our marina that is not more than 12' with boats on both sides).


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## smackdaddy

bubb2 said:


> Smack, Thanks for the post. you know had to rub it in. It was 3 degrees at midnight here and has been warming up all day. It is now 26 and the ice on the river is only 6 inches thick. I have to say something s*****y just to feel better. Tighten those life lines up!!!!


Sorry - Bubb. I deserved your s*a*k*addy comment. I'll get on those lifelines, Cap'n.

Caleb - it actually came with the boat from its old days of racing. I'd been told that it was "too big and too beat up" to rely on. Then I pulled it out of the bag and...suckas. It's virtually new - just been in a bag forever.

Still gonna get that 110 and spin though. But at least I can sail for now.


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## blt2ski

Smack,

you may find in larger winds in the low 20's that that BIG job alone is plenty. My boyz and I sailed back from a race south of my in 15-22 knots or there about with my new 155 carbon. Did just fine going up wind with just that sail alone up and the three of us. Racing, a reefed main would have been up and two more crew like I had earlier. For just a day sail, we had a good time in the upper 5's into the 6 knot speed range. 6.6 knots is hull speed for my rig. 

That reminds me, I need to measure that C27 kevlar in my basement...........

We got sorta kinda fogged out of a race yesterday. Probably should have waited an hour, but it was so thick, not sure if it would lift, about 1pm we could have sailed vs the 12 pm start time. oh well, hindsight is ALWAYS better than forsight it seems.

Marty


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## smackdaddy

Hey Bluto,

Yeah we were working the main sheet pretty hard in the gusts to the point that we were getting some luff - so we definitely had too much main up. Thanks for the tips. I'll practice the genny-only next time out. 

This genny has also got reef cringles. So, I'm going to do some experimenting with that as well. I really like the hank-on head sail thing - I just need to figure out the control limits for each size sail. It's great "homework" though!

Sounds like a nice race/sail with your boyz! Nothin' better, huh!

Let me know on that sail in your basement. I'm interested.

Oh - man the wind's back up to 20 today and the sun's out. 

Must....concentrate......on......work.......must.......not.................succumb.......to..........tempta......


I'm goin' sailing.


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## painkiller

Who the hell invented winter anyway.


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## JohnRPollard

smackdaddy said:


> - I just need to figure out the control limits for each size sail. It's great "homework" though!


It's hard to tell from that one photo, but I was going to say that it looks like your genoa lead car could come further aft (if there's anymore track). Especially if you were feeling overpowered upwind.

Again, hard to say for sure from that angle.


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## smackdaddy

JohnRPollard said:


> It's hard to tell from that one photo, but I was going to say that it looks like your genoa lead car could come further aft (if there's anymore track). Especially if you were feeling overpowered upwind.
> 
> Again, hard to say for sure from that angle.


Hey John - thanks for the feedback. I had the car pulled back to within a foot or so of the winch. But, like you mentioned, it still seemed that it needed to come back more as the sheet was pulling down more than back at that point. How close can you get the car to the winch? I have plenty of track.

Man it was just so cool feeling the speed of that sail...while at the same time hoping I didn't shred another.

Thanks again, dude.

*BTW - Is ANYONE else out there in Sailnet land still sailing? Where are the Supersouthies these days? Chall? TDW? C'mon lads! Throw down!*


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## chall03

Hey Smack, We are still here loitering around the corners as we like to do  

I also figured it would be bad form for us to come on here and tell too many stories of dolphin laden, bikini clad, beer drinking summer cruises given the fact that most of your fine country appears to be frozen solid....
(It was in Sydney 95 degrees Fahrenheit today, i have just gotten back from a swim down the beach ).

I also do have to confess that other than a nice little week long cruise around NYE, sadly I have not been getting in much BFS of late. January on the waters around here is sometimes best avoided as Christmas/summer holidays means most normally quintessential anchorages turn into Searay filled floating caravan parks. Most club racing also generally takes a break for a few weeks..........
You add to that the fact that if you decide to find Nemo and start sailing north from here this time of year you are more than likely to run into a bad ass cyclone. 

Real nice BFS and pics Smack.....The seastate reminded me of a local duck pond I like to picnic by....however kudos to you for sailing into the slip....you are a braver man than I.


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## smackdaddy

Hey Chall! Good to hear from you, mate! Happy New Year!

Bad form? No such thing as bad form in BFS as far as I'm concerned (can't you tell)! And, trust me, all the depressed, snowed-in sailors around here would love to sail vicariously through you guys. Especially if you're cruising around your pristine sea with beer-drinking, bikini-clad dolphins! Those crumpets!

Duck pond? Duck pond? Well! Just remember, pal, he who has the smallest body of water ALWAYS talks the loudest! 

I haven't even made it to the word "seastate" yet. Mine's more "puddlestate". Even so, the whole slip sail thing elevates me to sailing royalty I think. And knowing you guys love a good monarchy as much as we yanks do - Sir Smackdaddy will be just fine.

Now get out there and sail right over those damn Searays, man!! Cheers!


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## CharlieCobra

Nice job on sailing into the slip, that bottleneck is TIGHT! We wouldn't have wanted that Genny up when we were out though, wouldn't wanna shred that one and the boys would've gotten tired of sitting on the cabin ports all day. That is a good looking sail though.


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## Giulietta

CharlieCobra said:


> Nice job on sailing into the slip, that bottleneck is TIGHT! We wouldn't have wanted that Genny up when we were out though, wouldn't wanna shred that one and the boys would've gotten tired of sitting on the cabin ports all day. That is a good looking sail though.


That's what you think happened...but in reality??? After you ripped his genoa...

Smacky thought this:

"I am not telling Charlie I have another sail down bellow...I see the way he trims the sails....he trims it till it makes "noises"..and the genoa becomes many smaller sails...nahh...this must be the way the "Westies" trim.....I am not telling him I have another sail.no sir..."

-Huh..Charlie...opps..you ripped my genoa....no problem...but I don't have another one..sorry....-

:laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher


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## CharlieCobra

Actually, I knew about the Genny before we went out but didn't wanna hoist it because the wind was up. The Jib shouldn't have blown out in a 30 knot puff as it was a 90 or 100% but it was old and weak I suppose. We were trimmed better than the fleet it seems, since we smoked their butts on the course. I'm looking forward to hearing how it goes when he gets a chute.

Smack, ya get that Flip video camera yet?


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## smackdaddy

Heh-heh. Busted again!

It's true that I do have a "one-sail-shred-per-guest" quota on my boat. But Charlie more than made up for it with the speed he milked out of my old boat. Alex, you would have been proud, man! We honestly were crankin' out there. So the Westies are indeed fast!

Then he topped the whole thing off with the rig tuning and a fine cigar! How can I complain? It was a great day.

I'll keep the tiller warm for you Giu! Come on down and rip my genny dude! (Sailhog - it's not what you think. Relax.)


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## smackdaddy

CharlieCobra said:


> Actually, I knew about the Genny before we went out but didn't wanna hoist it because the wind was up. The Jib shouldn't have blown out in a 30 knot puff as it was a 90 or 100% but it was old and weak I suppose. We were trimmed better than the fleet it seems, since we smoked their butts on the course. I'm looking forward to hearing how it goes when he gets a chute.
> 
> Smack, ya get that Flip video camera yet?


Not yet - I'm still looking for the one that has the "seastate enhancement" feature.

After Chall's smack-talking and Chuckles' dubious tone, I gotta find something to give me that edge.

Otherwise, I might lose some credibility around here! Heh-heh.


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## chall03

Smack, wait for a big ass ferry to go past and try and sit the smacktanic (with your Genny doused for the occasion of course and borrowed storm jib centre frame) right in Ferry's wake and SNAP.

Hey if after a 100 posts i'm now a 'senior member' what the hell does that make guys like SD and Giu??


----------



## ckgreenman

chall03 said:


> Hey if after a 100 posts i'm now a 'senior member' what the hell does that make guys like SD and Giu??


Old Farts!!


----------



## sailingdog

ckgreenman said:


> Old Farts!!


Yeah, but us old farts don't stink like you...


----------



## ckgreenman

hehe. ya but that argument might not be valid soon. Who know I might actually post a BFS soon.


----------



## sailingdog

Don'tcha first need a boat to do that?? :laugher:laugher:laugher


ckgreenman said:


> hehe. ya but that argument might not be valid soon. Who know I might actually post a BFS soon.


----------



## blt2ski

He has a toy sailboat with his rubber ducky for in the hottub he is getting next week!


----------



## ckgreenman

sailingdog said:


> Don'tcha first need a boat to do that?? :laugher:laugher:laugher


Wow. Nothing gets by you does it 

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/buying-boat/50713-need-help-looking-boat-charlotte-nc.html


----------



## ckgreenman

blt2ski said:


> He has a toy sailboat with his rubber ducky for in the hottub he is getting next week!


IT'S NOT A TOY!!!!! And it's a froggy not a ducky


----------



## blt2ski

Yeah, and thats what she said too! a toy!


----------



## smackdaddy

chall03 said:


> Smack, wait for a big ass ferry to go past and try and sit the smacktanic (with your Genny doused for the occasion of course and borrowed storm jib centre frame) right in Ferry's wake and SNAP.
> 
> Hey if after a 100 posts i'm now a 'senior member' what the hell does that make guys like SD and Giu??


Chall:
Hey, I like it! Simple, devious, yet convincing. Only two problems...

1. Giu already captured that technique with his previous avatar - where the dingy wake slap made it look like he was really dipping a rail. Everyone was initially impressed with his BFS sailing prowess until the scam was uncovered by yours truly. Heh-heh. And now he's the BFS Inquisitore?

2. Being that I'm stuck in a lake - there's nothing bigger than a 40-foot stinkpot captained by a drunk rich-kid around here to help me out. Of course, there's always Photoshop...wait, back to 1.

I'll keep at it dude!

CK:
I can't wait for your first BFS! Seriously! Have you purchased the O'day? I'm actually stoked for you, dude! Get out there and throw down!! It won't be hard to beat my lame attempts!


----------



## sailingdog

Didn't see nothing in that thread about you buying a boat... looking at boats is one thing... buying the actual hole in the water is something else.  right now you and Cam are in the RV-less, boat-less world of limbo...


ckgreenman said:


> Wow. Nothing gets by you does it
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/buying-boat/50713-need-help-looking-boat-charlotte-nc.html


----------



## ckgreenman

And`I didn't say I was doing a BFS now either. but SOON. 


And WHEN IS CAM GETTING HERE TO PICK UP THE RV???????. He's`late


----------



## Giulietta

smackdaddy said:


> 1. Giu already captured that technique with his previous avatar - where the dingy wake slap made it look like he was really dipping a rail.


Smacky...Smacky...Smacky....you should know better..i have no need to resort to merda de boi or cheats...images worth 1000 words!! 


http://i125.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid125.photobucket.com/albums/p61/giuliettacsc/MOV03435.flv

http://i212.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid212.photobucket.com/albums/cc65/giuliettacsc2/JoelandJayme.flv

http://i125.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid125.photobucket.com/albums/p61/giuliettacsc/MOV03434.flv​


----------



## painkiller

ckgreenman said:


> And`I didn't say I was doing a BFS now either. but SOON.
> 
> And WHEN IS CAM GETTING HERE TO PICK UP THE RV???????. He's`late


I thought you sold The Beast to Bene505.


----------



## smackdaddy

b-b-b-b-b-Bene and Beast. I like it.


----------



## chall03

Damn Giu is getting good at Photoshop  Those videos almost had me convinced....

Smack, damn no ferries, better round up some Sea Rays then. Or yeah your right, your last hope is to send a pic of the smacktanic off to Portugal for superimposing over video of Niagara Falls.


----------



## painkiller

"Smacktanic" is _hilarious_!


----------



## CharlieCobra

Alex, that looked like a normal sail in 15-20, not really a BFS for that boat. Tiny two foot waves, c'mon now....


----------



## Giulietta

CC that was to show Smacky that I don't need "Exterior" help to get NOTHING reatment on the deck....ie: no need to get a wave to dip the rail


----------



## CharlieCobra

Ok, she's definitely fast enough for sure.


----------



## smackdaddy

Heh-heh. I told you Chall - Giu's good! What's your top speed again, Giu? 16 knots or something? It's freakin' fast whatever it is.

BTW - I still have NEVER truly dipped a rail on the S_/V Smacktanic_ (thanks Chall)! We were very close that day with Charlie - but still didn't get it under even though we were heeling past 35 degrees. And I know it's completely inefficient and slow - but, hey, it's fun!

BTW - has anyone EVER held the rail of a C27 under? With the 7' of freeboard on these boats, I'm starting to wonder.

Charlie - what were those stogies of yours called? My 4 year old wants me to get him a box.


----------



## ckgreenman

painkiller said:


> I thought you sold The Beast to Bene505.


No, Cam got the first offer but now he lost his chance. NOW it's Bene's turn


----------



## CharlieCobra

Smack, those were JR Alternatives to Rocky Patel Vintage '92's. I've since found many better smokes than those. The La Gloria Cubana torpedo I had last night comes to mind. I did score on some very good, very cheap Maduro's (dark and full bodied puro's) but they're sold out.


----------



## smackdaddy

Well - they were sweet smokes, dude. Thanks again, Charlie.

Hey - in going back through the BFS stories of great sails it seems we have holes in certain areas. For example, what about the Gulfies? I've been following Jrd's and Bennyd's jaunt out of FL (technically on the Eastie side, but it'll do) - and that definitely looks tasty to me. Who else is out on the Gulf getting some big wind? There HAS to be someone out there!

Then we've also got the Supersouthies. Chall is waiting for his window in Sydney(?) - but are there any others out there throwing down in that crazy Southern Ocean? In following the Vendee - things look pretty nuts down there.


----------



## smackdaddy

C3PO rocked the house today.

Check this out.

Definitely a BFS, dude. Nice.


----------



## mrwuffles

Thank god I thought this thread was killed off someone is reviving it soon the NE will be contributing again and you guys won't have to do all the BFS'ing


----------



## craigtoo

smackdaddy said:


> C3PO rocked the house today.
> 
> Check this out.
> 
> Definitely a BFS, dude. Nice.


Thanks Smack!


----------



## craigtoo

smackdaddy said:


> C3PO rocked the house today.
> 
> Check this out.
> 
> Definitely a BFS, dude. Nice.


Vids ain't that BFSish ... but fun... taken about an hour or 2 before the pics.


----------



## smackdaddy

mrwuffles said:


> Thank god I thought this thread was killed off someone is reviving it soon the NE will be contributing again and you guys won't have to do all the BFS'ing


Killed off? Ha! The only thing that could possibly kill this thread off is lame sailing. And people like you, C3PO, Fred, and all the other Big Freakin' Sailors that grace the pages of this thread just ain't gonna let that happen.

BFS Forever!


----------



## knothead

Here's what I did Wednesday instead of working. 
Fast forward to the five minute mark for some real sailing. 
Watch the whole thing if you want a tour of Tampa Bay and the St Pete waterfront.

I'll go up against Alex's boat any day of the week.


----------



## Giulietta

Thanks Knotty

NICE VIDEO!!!!!

Real nice....

now seriously..nice boat too!!

Alex


----------



## knothead

Giulietta said:


> now seriously..nice boat too!!


Thanks Alex.
I've been in situations where I trusted her after I had lost all control of my own destiny. 
She has not let me down. 

I've said it before but it bears repeating.

Lyle Hess was a genius.


----------



## eMKay

It's 25 degrees, all I can do is repost some from summer...






Most of this sail was above 6kts, awesome cold, windy, drizzly day 3 weeks before the end of the season...


----------



## ckgreenman

*Today was Awesome*

The title says it all

Craigtoo just happened to be in Charlotte this weekend so I asked if he wanted to go check out the boat I'm thinking of buying. He said he was game so I called up the owner/seller and asked if he'd be available. He said no but I'll leave it open for you guys. Feel free to take it out if you want.

Well we did.

And let me say it was awesome. Winds were 1 to about 6 or 7 knots with gusts a bit higher. We both had a blast and craig managed to teach me a thing or two.

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, Here ya go:


















































































And dumbazz me didn't even get a pic of Craig working as trim b*tch


----------



## craigtoo

Hi

I'm Trim B**ch... I like to sail...!   :laugher

We had a good day! Winds were really gusty.... as you come out from behind an island or a point... the wind would hit you.. I think the winds topped 15 at gusts... but mostly stayed below 10... A fun time. Even got a little sunburned!

Flight's delayed ... time to get loaded at an airport bar.

Thanks Chris!!!!!!! Tell Mrs. CK that that was one AWESOME meal!!!


----------



## craigtoo

I still can't believe the jib didn't explode.

It's got one more sail in it... or maybe 0.5 sails in it....


----------



## eMKay

Man, I thought my sails were in bad shape  So you gonna buy it and fix it up a bit? O'day 25's are solid boats.


----------



## craigtoo

eMKay said:


> Man, I thought my sails were in bad shape  So you gonna buy it and fix it up a bit? O'day 25's are solid boats.


(the strongest part of that jib was actually the plastic window...)


----------



## denby

Nice boat Chris, and a good day sailing. Hope you can buy it.


----------



## ckgreenman

craigtoo said:


> Hi
> 
> I'm Trim B**ch... I like to sail...!   :laugher
> 
> We had a good day! Winds were really gusty.... as you come out from behind an island or a point... the wind would hit you.. I think the winds topped 15 at gusts... but mostly stayed below 10... A fun time. Even got a little sunburned!
> 
> Flight's delayed ... time to get loaded at an airport bar.
> 
> Thanks Chris!!!!!!! Tell Mrs. CK that that was one AWESOME meal!!!


You're very welcome C2. Thanks a bunch for coming out and giving your opinion on the boat. It gives me some things to think about and ideas where I need to concentrate on fixes if/when I buy it.


----------



## ckgreenman

eMKay said:


> Man, I thought my sails were in bad shape  So you gonna buy it and fix it up a bit? O'day 25's are solid boats.


Ya, I didn't notice it the first time we took it out. It have the 150 which is shot and a 90 or so jib which we didn't take out but if remember right is better. The winds are so light (usually) on the laje that I don't think the smaller jib hardly gets used. The main was in great shape though. One thing the seller DID say is he has a number of other sails and he might swap out the 150 is he has a comparable one.

I really would like to buy it. It's definitely solid. C2 pointed out some projects that should be first like rebedding all the deck hardware and figuring out why we took on water. There is also a leaky window that drips right on the port settee cushion. It also will like need a re-wire. It did sail great though. We were heeled at about 20 degrees with only the slightest bit of weather helm.


----------



## ckgreenman

denby said:


> Nice boat Chris, and a good day sailing. Hope you can buy it.


Me too. We had such a blast today. We couldn't splash the rail but we got it up to about 30-35 degrees heel at one point 

I actually had to "correct" the pics above because I had the camera (cellphone) tilted.


----------



## Bene505

ckgreenman said:


> No, Cam got the first offer but now he lost his chance. NOW it's Bene's turn


Just saw this post from a while back. No RV for me. I have my hand full already.

Besides, how do you throw down a BFS in an RV?


----------



## artbyjody

Bene505 said:


> Just saw this post from a while back. No RV for me. I have my hand full already.
> 
> Besides, how do you throw down a BFS in an RV?


That is easy - a really good RV has two full length awnings. In a good blow - you can have a great BFS as in "Bitchin Fricking Scenario"...

Remember an RV is just a mobile home that is designed to be towed behind a bicycle - err a Prius - err a 4 wheel something...

Couple 360 square feet of awning (sunbrella!) in adverse wind conditions... it becomes "I have wings"...

Just food for thought...


----------



## ckgreenman

Bene505 said:


> Just saw this post from a while back. No RV for me. I have my hand full already.
> 
> Besides, how do you throw down a BFS in an RV?


EASY!. Park the RV and use an OPB 

That's the boat I'm looking to buy IF I can get that RV SOLD!


----------



## Bene505

Ck and C2,

Nice to see someone getting some BFS in around here (borrowed boat + off season sailing + fun sailnetters +10 to 15 knots = BFS). 

As MrWuffles said, don't count us out. We're watching the sun getting higher and the days getting longer. Soon, very soon.


----------



## ckgreenman

Woohoo. Score one for the East coast.


----------



## denby

Bene505 said:


> Just saw this post from a while back. No RV for me. I have my hand full already.
> 
> Besides, how do you throw down a BFS in an RV?


Ask Cam.


----------



## camaraderie

All...Bite Me! 
CKC2...stop stealing OP boats for your fun! Bubba's gonna catch you!!


----------



## ckgreenman

camaraderie said:


> All...Bite Me!
> CKC2...stop stealing OP boats for your fun! Bubba's gonna catch you!!


Hehe. he did. Then promptly said "Jest c/mon down en take er out whenever".


----------



## Bene505

artbyjody said:


> That is easy - a really good RV has two full length awnings. In a good blow - you can have a great BFS as in "Bitchin Fricking Scenario"...


Wait a minute. Any RV BFS-er would reef those awnings before the blow hit.

Anyone got some photos of a heeling RV? One with too much awning up?


----------



## sailingdog

You're assuming Cam's that bright... 


Bene505 said:


> Wait a minute. Any RV BFS-er would reef those awnings before the blow hit.
> 
> Anyone got some photos of a heeling RV? One with too much awning up?


----------



## mrwuffles

Thats a big assumption:laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher :laugher


----------



## Bene505

I found this picture. Obviously a well documented RV BFS. He's heeling so much we can't tell how much awning he has up.

That guy is cranking!!


----------



## mrwuffles

That looks just like ck's


----------



## denby

It looks like Cam to me, but if it is ck how does he expect to sell it that way?


----------



## sailingdog

Is that Cam inspecting the damage to his rolling home???


----------



## smackdaddy

CK! You are the MAN! Congrats on a sweet sail, dude! How did it compare to a good day on the stinkpot? For me? No comparison. BFS rules, baby!


----------



## ckgreenman

It was a blast. And to top it off we had the lake almost to ourselves. All the stinkpots are still winterized and there were only 3 sets of sails (including ours) that we saw out there.

AWESOME!!!


----------



## North253

I just went to youtube and typed in "extreme sailing" and found this...






...well i thought it was cool.


----------



## North253

After reading all of this BFS thread (yes, Page 1-100), Im sitting here thinking, wow i really need to get out and get my own BFS story it finally occurs to me at 5:30 AM that i do have a BFS, at least as far as i can remember( it was about 9 years ago, I was 12, I think)

In the summers for a couple years, when I was much younger, I went to a sailing "day camp" where they put us in little el toro sailing dinghies and taught how to sail in Wollochet Bay by yelling at us through a bull horn from a boston whaler(okay it wasn't quite as evil as it sounds). anyway on one of the last days of the camp, it was blowing like snot (well probably not, seeing as how that bay is pretty well protected, but i was 12, give me a break) and all I had to do was sail out to this bouy, round it, and sail back. So i start heading out and i decie to trim my main in to really get going, to the point where my el toro is actually heeling about as much as one of those little boats can, and reach the mark very rapidly, and decide to tack very fast and let out the main sheet at the same time, at least thats what i recall happening. the next thing I know im flying out of the boat and into the water. by the time i get my bearings i discover that the boat has turteled, and Im floating about 20 feet away from it. The instructors made me right it myself and sail it back by myself(remember I'm 12, at this point i think they are Nazi's) when theres a good 6 inches of very cold Puget sound water in the bottom, on avery windy, very overcast day. But it was worth the standing ovation I recieved at the dock.


----------



## Mc51

*My latest BFS*

I had a short BFS yesterday. The forecast was partly thunderstorm but we get a lot of days like that here on the gulf coast. My sloop is on the hard right now while I give it a new bottom job. I've learned my lesson. I will not buy anti-foul paint that is on clearance sale ever again. My job has been driving me crazy and I really needed some sailing Zen so I decided to go out on our H-16. I've named our H-16 "Therapy" as in mental therapy. I keep it on the beach about two miles from the house and ten miles from my office. If I can only get out for an hour it does much good for my mental state of mind after a rough day at work. Like I said the forecast was partly thunderstorm but with 15 to 20 mph winds and a high of 72. Thunderstorms, no worries, just sail around them right? No one else really wanted to go so I reef the main and headed out by myself. I was having a great time out in the middle of Escambia bay when I got caught by a thunderstorm that I couldn't sail around. It came sweeping in fast from the west and it covered the whole bay. I'm pretty sure the wind speeds topped 40 MPH because I've been out with the hobie in 35 mph wind plenty of times before. I was afraid to try to run downwind because the visibility dropped to about 20 feet and I didn't want to find one of the piers or seawalls on the west side of the bay at mach5. With that kind of wind speed I would have probably be knocked down in a forward flip anyway. Not Fun! I was doing okay for about twenty minutes. I had the main sheeted down hard at the starboard end of the traveler. I was sailing as close to the wind as I could using only the jib and luffing the main, headed generally northwest. The only thing that I could hit in that direction was salt grass flats which wouldn't be too painful to run into. It was pretty exiting, the bay went from almost flat to a three to four foot chop I was hiked out as far as I could get without the trap harness on, and really fun too. Then my tiller extension broke. I managed to keep control for about ten more minutes using the cross bar that connects the rudders but I couldn't hike out to balance the boat. A quick change in wind direction tore the plate the jib sheet attaches to loose from the jib. I lasted about two minutes with that kind of wind hitting the mainsail. When it knocked me down I didn't even go in the water I was at the back of the tramp so I just held on and dropped down on the hull that was in the water. The storm moved on after another ten minutes. When I got my righting line set up and I tried to right the boat I found out that I didn't have enough body mass to pull her over. Now I know a bad point to losing weight. When I weighed 225 I could right the boat by myself. Luckily the wind was pushing me toward a part of the shore that was shallow enough that I would be able to avoid obstacles like piers and sea walls while I righted the boat. Two yuengling and three cigars later I finally drifted in to shallow water.

Mc


----------



## Mc51

My first BFS was on our CAL25 “Warhorse”. It was combined with another momentous event which happened to be the first time that I single-handed her. I didn’t plan to be out on Pensacola Bay by myself in thirty-five mph winds, and no, there were not any 18 foot swells like I’ve read about all of you old salts experiencing, but a five to eight foot chop the first time you’re on your own can be exciting too. My son came in from South Carolina for a shot visit and spent several days helping me work on our worn out cars. On the fourth day we stopped after lunch and I asked what he wanted to do for fun. He immediately said we were going to sail Warhorse over to Pensacola Beach, drop anchor, eat some wings at Hooters, listen to some good live music at Capt Fun’s Beach club and after we slept in the next morning enjoy a good day of sailing the long way back. I told him that would work except that our outboard was in a barrel because it wasn’t running very good. Of course we worked on the outboard next and pretty quickly had it cranking and running like new. We threw the ice chest, outboard and a few clothes in the truck and headed for the marina. By the time we bought gas, drinks and a few snacks, drove to the marina and loaded the boat the sun was going down and a full moon was coming up. Which brings up another first for me; sailing at night. The outboard motor that ran like a sewing machine at home decided not to crank after the trip to the marina, but we were determined to go sailing. Did I mention that my son and I both are hard-headed and oblivious to bad omens. We dug out the ancient trolling motor that I keep under the cockpit, clamped it to the stern and headed out of the bayou. Neither one of us had bothered to check the weather so we didn’t think about the wisdom of heading out with 36 mph winds. The trip over to Pensacola beach went quite well, but I was surprised when I found out that only the red buoys had lights on them. I didn’t hit any of the green buoys but it is kind of exciting when by moonlight you realize that you are headed right for one. To get to the Hooters at Pensacola Beach there is one bridge to go under right before you get there. It’s not easy to tact your way through a bridge when a 35 mph wind is blowing straight through it from the other side. By the way, we also learned that an antique trolling motor will not push a twenty-five foot sloop into a 35 knot wind in a heavy chop. No problem, we sailed into a pocket cove named Little Sabine and dropped anchor after finding a nice sandbar to get stuck on and dragged her off of by throwing out the anchor and pulling like draft horses. A short paddle to the beach in our inflatable kayak followed by a two block walk got us to our destination. The wings and music were great. We went back to the boat and had a great nights sleep. The next morning we woke up to a boat that was heeled over at about 40 degrees. Apparently we had just enough road out for Warhorse to swing over to a 3.5 foot deep area before the tide dropped two feet. Our great day of sailing just got delayed till high tide. My wife drove over to the island and took us out for lunch and a used outboard engine shopping trip. I’ve been accused of being pretty cheap and stayed true to myself that day. I didn’t find a single outboard that was worth the price that day, so I bought a new trolling motor. I forgot to mention that the wind was at thirty mph with gusts to forty that next day and blowing straight down the narrow channel needed to get through to get back to Pensacola sound. I didn’t think about that one the night before. When we got back to Warhorse she had decided that she was through laying on here side so we paddled out with the new trolling motor and a new marine battery. It didn’t take us long to clamp on the new motor, pull up the anchor and get under way. Warhorse was moving forward into the wind just fine until we turned to starboard to head for the channel. When the wind hit the side of the boat we lost all control. The trolling motor wasn’t strong enough. I dropped the anchor before we ended up on the sandbar again. We clamped the old trolling motor beside the new one and tried it again with the same results. At that point I figured out that I was spending another night in Little Sabine. My son’s wife wanted him home so I took him “under protest” to the beach for a ride to his truck so he could head back to South Carolina. The next morning the winds had not eased at all. I refused to pay Seatow $150 to tow me the 500 meters out to Pensacola Sound where I had sailing room. Did I mention that I’m hardheaded and cheap? I decided to leave Little Sabine the way the pirates did in the old days. This method involved two anchors, two 100 foot lengths of rope, the kayak and a lot of paddling and rope pulling. Two guys came by in a trawler and gave me a tow out. I offered to pay them but they wouldn’t hear of it. Your thinking isn’t this supposed to be about BFS right? Okay here it is. After they towed me out of the cove I raised sail and Warhorse took off like a sports car. Sailing single handed was really cool. Pensacola Sound didn’t have much wave action because it isn’t very wide. When I rounded the point and got into Pensacola bay it was a totally different story. Pensacola Bay is wide enough at that point for the wind push up a five to eight foot chop. That was the first time that I had ever got the rails on Warhorse wet, it was an awesome experience. I started thinking ahead to getting back into our slip at marina in Bayou Grande when I suddenly thought crap!! Lazy Jacks! We always keep our lazy jack lines stowed on the mast when we raise sail because the main hangs up on them sometimes. I was thinking it was going to be pretty ugly dropping the main by myself in that kind of wind without the lazy jacks. I got my auto-tiller out of the cockpit storage and hooked it up. That wasn’t an easy feat with wet rails and five foot chop. When I turned it on nothing happened. Double crap!! Well the only thing to do was lash the tiller and get it done. Going forward and setting up the lazy-jacks was one of the most exciting things that I’ve done in my life, especially the part about being on the downwind side of the boom in five foot chop with wet rails. It was pretty close to the excitement level firing the main gun on an Abrams Tank. A few time there I thought a gust was going to knock her down. After I got back in the cockpit I decided two things. That if I was ever in that situation again, I would either take a chance dropping the main, or at least put on a life jacket. The rest of the trip home was awesome. I am looking forward to the day that I can get her out in winds like that again, but not by myself.

Mc


----------



## smackdaddy

Welcome to BFS North and MC!! And thanks for some sweet throwdown!

North - that's the way sailing should be taught, dude. Reminds me of DuckDuckGoose's sailing education in Ireland.

And MC - your tale illustrates wonderfully that mystical draw that sailing has always had on man since the dawn of time....the impetus to some of the greatest voyages in history:

Big tatas and chicken wings.


----------



## mrwuffles

BFS just reached 1000 posts !!!!


----------



## CharlieCobra

Yep, a couple of nice stories for the thread. Like Smacky says, a BFS is in the eyes of the participant. All three of those qualify.


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey Wuff - sounds like you could get some good H-16 advice from MC. I like his style.


----------



## Mc51

I don't have much style. I just like old boats with sails, wind, water, a cold brew, My pipe or a cigar, and time to enjoy them all together. And if the any of the family wants to come along, I enjoy being with them too.

Mc


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey MC - style is overrated. Brews and smokes ain't, dude! I'm with you.

Here's another great BFS from twinsdad (a new member) over in the Heavy Weather Sailing thread. Good stuff!



twinsdad said:


> This is a terrific thread. I have learned so much reading it. I do not have as much heavy weather experience as some of the other folks who have written, but maybe you'll find something useful.
> 
> When I bought my current boat, an Express '34, I had to sail it from Annapolis to Sag Harbor, NY. I hired a captain to join me and two friends (who had little sailing experience) sail it. We decided to take the ocean route from Cape May, NJ, rounding Montauk on to Sag Harbor. One reason we picked that route is that there are not many ports to duck into in NJ when you have a 6' draft.
> 
> En route, we encountered two squalls with wind speeds in the 40 knot range. When we saw the first one at a distance, all but the captain were concerned. He suggested that we would be best served motoring in to the weather. We took the sails down and lashed what we needed to. It was amazing how quickly the distant squall hit us - no more than 15 minutes. With so much of the boat's weight in the keel, I was surprised how well this light boat handled the rough weather.
> 
> What also changed was our attitude. After handling the first squall, we were much more relaxed when the second one hit. I felt I learned some very important lessons. One I knew, which is to never panic in a difficult situation. Another is, you may run in to trouble even when not looking for it. While I am not a proponent of looking for trouble, I would put odds on you Smackdaddy. The reason is that you have thought things through in advance and have acquired some very useful knowledge.
> 
> Even with a boat that is most comfortable in the sub 15 knot wind area, things went very well. On a subsequent trip from Sag Harbor to Newport, RI, we left in roughly 25 knot winds (forecast was for diminishing winds). We put out a postage stamp amount of our jib (using a #1), and no main. Trip was slow but steady, and later let out a little more sail even though the wind never died down.
> 
> The only mishap was my then girlfriend (now wife) getting seasick. She had never gotten sick before so we didn't think to give her meds beforehand. She survived.
> 
> For me the basic lessons are:
> 
> 1. Don't panic
> 2. Use your best judgement and always err on the side of being cautious
> 3. Plan ahead and think through contingencies (we knew where we would head to if we didn't want to continue to Newport)
> 4. Always have a drink and a laugh after you have had a rough day of it


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## blt2ski

OOOPS!










Before the carnage in a 30'L, 24.5' WL boat! From 1985.









Yes we were having fun!

marty


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## CharlieCobra

I'll say!


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## blt2ski

I did not post this earlier, Jody is NOT having any fun, went aground a mile NW of skatchet bouy, Hopefully is off about now.

Marty


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## djodenda

Marty:

Jody is at Edmonds. They are all fine. HG is fine.

May need to call the race tomorrow if it's too much.. Shades of FWB.

We'll see..

David


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## smackdaddy

Holy CRAP Marty! Dude, you totally owe us a write up on this one!

I'm telling you, the Westies should be kissin' the boots of you PNW boys when it comes to the 2009 BFS Cup. All these other chumps show is waves and wind. You guys are smokin' around the NoPac at 11 knots, bustin' booms, hittin' stuff (like land)...I LOVE IT!

11 KNOTS!

I'm seeing a serious smackdown from the Westies this year. So what's the story, Bluto?


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## artbyjody

blt2ski said:


> I did not post this earlier, Jody is NOT having any fun, went aground a mile NW of skatchet bouy, Hopefully is off about now.
> 
> Marty


We made it back - less (so far) some scratches at the bottom of the keel and some physiological treatment to be needed for the crew in the next few days... She is down at Edmonds as we could not get the motor started after being getting towed off the sandbar and shoal. The latter probably due to battery, but could be fuel, could be sand in the engine...sigh...

We began short-handed (two cancelled late minute), so we played it safe. Put in 3rd reef on the main, ran with genoa on the furler. Was doing ok up until Possession Point. Thats when we heard the MOB on the VHF - it was near our location and we could see a boat that had the sails struck so kept our course on an almost intercept (we were about 3 miles out to begin with). However, never got a name of the boat and as we got closer the chatter for the MOB died and so we resumed ...

The seas were now about 5-6 foot swells as we apporached the bouy for the tack. However, between the wind now gusting up to 32-38 and the increasing height of the swells and intensity - we ended up waiting just a moment to long to finally try to round up and tack. Thats when we got hit by a few swells in succession on the broadside and we were not able to over power them. Time 12:07 pm.

We had pinned the keel on the sandbar and started the motor and tried to pitch it off - but the angle of attack and the conditions we were in - we just got lifted over the sandbar and into the shoal area. Then the motor just died. By then all we could was strike down the sails and try to wait it out. Called it as it happened on the VHF as the conditions were not exactly getting slacker...

In the end, Coast Guard could not get to us due to our position (they did a fly-by and we chatted for a bit with the Helo). Got ahold of Vessel Assist - and they got their heads around the situation - but it would be a few hours before they could do anything to begin with. I did ask the crew if they wanted to abandon ship - they all decided to stick it out, and the CG was prepared to evacuate those who would of wanted (and I would of understood). NO one was hurt - the actual grounding was not actually felt - it was the pounding that occurred for the next few hours that we will feel for a few days.

Even as I am sitting here, my body feels as if it is still there the manning the helm and trying to kept the pitch of the boat to windward as possible. We'd get picked up 5 feet or so and then try to steer to settle her down easy only to get dropped hard into the sand. Of which, we were lucky - the sandy bottom at least the best case scenario if you have to get into this predicament. The helm was managed the whole duration and we tried to use the swells and wind to our advantage - which I think minimized some of the issues we could of had..We started working with a 40 degree roll, and did managed to reduce it to 20-10 degree about 3 pm.

Of note - about how shallow it was and I am not making this up. Chris (believe that was his name), a gentleman maybe in his late fifties..He lives in one of the houses up on the cliff, and had contacted us on the VHF and gave us some advice about how to wait it out and what to expect.

Around 2 PM the winds had dropped to 10-15, swells were maybe 2 feet and 4 minute intervals.... And we see this guy wading through the shoal waters. At first he seemed like he was just well - weird. Fishing maybe? Clamming? We watched over the course of the next 30 minutes until he suddenly waded up and was alongside our port railing. I imagine he was maybe 6 foot, the water came up to his chest.

He came bearing gifts, beers for the crew (micro at that), girl scout cookies, and did so with the guise of it was an "Maritime tradition to perform for those stranded"...He actually took alot of the sting out the situation as he chatted about how they see hundreds of boats, freighters etc, get snapped up there... We thanked him for his hospitality, effort, and I joked - "Really sorry I can't give you a lift back"...You have to appreciate the uhmmm movie quality of this as it was the last thing you would expect in the scenario you are in... Dude - you rocked...thank you...

By 3:50 PM, the slack tide was no longer slack. However, the winds increased and so did the swells again back to 3-5 feet and in sporadic intervals. We started getting lifted up and smacked back down with increasing ferocity. From around 1:30 PM until 3:50 PM we had literally not moved in position and held on a course of 060....By 4 PM we had moved almost 200 feet closer to the shore...We made the call to Vessel Assist to inform them that our situation was now turning for the worse, and it would be a matter of time before it would not be one controllable...

4:25 PM - Vessel Assist comes alongside and tosses the towing line. We get it secured on the stern cleat. Thus begins the battle of maneuvering a 8 foot keel sailboat backwards. This is one of those times you appreciate having the IOR style I have - the rudder is short, and is advantageous in the fact that being towed from stern, it will remain intact.

It was a bumpy ride. We sent everyone forward, two in the v-berth - two secured and tethered at the pulpit, with Dan giving me depth and location from the Nav. I managed the helm and the swells kept rising. At many times we were seeing 10 footers and all I could do was try to spin the wheel of fortune and spin it back again and ride the swells as we bumped and grinded...Flooding the cockpit on several occasions as the swells broke over the sugar scoop stern......

We broke free by 5:04 pm, and we had the option of sailing out of there. I tried to get the motor started and it was a no go, and per usual - told the crew the scenario and what we would have to do and what the option was...Crew opted to finish the tow stating they were exhausted (rightfully so) and we were towed and banged our way to Edmonds...

Docking was uneventful and great seamanship and custer service from Vessel Assist. They waited until we could assess our situation once free (the motor the issue and the increasing weather on all points).. We are moored at the guest slips at Edmonds currently.

Dan's wife came down and picked us up and they drove us back to Elliott Bay Marina...Thanks much there too!

I haven't thought this through, but I think we just happened to a delayed decision and the current conditions and lack of local knowledge led to the event. The real scenario is the fact - no one ever panicked. Maybe that is how I preach about handling situations and the whole safety aspect I have with "HG" and it was reflected and maybe it gives a positive false confidence but it went all ways.

Dan, Steve, Martin, and Juan simply made best of the situation and took a huge burden off my shoulder. I was totally prepared to get them off (I would not leave the boat however) and yet they stuck it through (I never asked them too either and stressed - if you want off - I'll make it happen). I attribute most of that in how I like to communicate. I don't exactly candy coat things and do not believe in "hiding details" ever... Everyone performed exceptionally and everything was a group decision... Compared to Foul Weather Bluff - this was a cakewalk simply because everyone put in what was required - a vested interest to everyone I would like to think...

It was an adventure - and if it was to happen for the first time for someone, I would hope they to have the same crew I did - and wish others have the types of individuals that I was surrounded with - to make it through. It was was rough, and many times we thought - heeled to far and starting taking on water (never happened) - how close is that shoreline again? But, we made it through it...

That's my un-biased observation...Apparently three boats ran aground, and alot of carnage this race (hope to find out how the MOB resolved)... And well, it was an unusual and wish it had never happened. But it did - Dan, Steve, Martin, and Juan - thanks for seeing it through - you are my heroes...

Thanks David for the follow-up call... I'll be back down in the morning - I'll help with the RC if you need extra body...


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## blt2ski

Jody,

Glad you are ok.

I did not look at the guest dock tonight when I was down there for the EYC commodores ball. Altho from the bldg, I could see a few masts that were not there around 3 pm when I left for home.

Where Jam went ashore, I skimmed the bottom last week some 400-600 yrs off shore too! Some serious movement of the bottom sands south of the Edmond marina to Richmond Beach oil docks.

Anyway, need to get some rest myself, I am doing a ski instructor lev 1 exam tomorrow. David, do what you need as far as weather goes. I did get a call today from one person worried that the winds were forecast for 25-35 knots. Thats above CYCE specs of sustained 22knots to cancel. So see whom is out there. A north course is usually a bit better than a south start course.

Head has hurting, a bit too much wine and champaigne tonight.

As for me, no one was hurt. Item #1. Boom I can fix. I could not replace the head that would HAVE been taken off by the boom going from one side to the other. We were having fun until the "OH ****" manuver break!

Semi true news story.
Coast Guard handles four distress calls at Edmonds regatta

MOB was rescued by a J29, "Here and Now" from what I have read. Got MOB back on to their boat, and went on to win class. WIll check that in a moment or two.

Put some jack lines on last week, and bought a couple of tethers. My sons were glad this week, daughter last week that I had the system setup. Yeah soe carnige, but lessons learned, no one hurt. Life goes on!

Hopefully I can secure a boom for the 3rd CSS race in two weeks.

marty


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## sailingdog

Jody—

Thanks for that detailed post. Glad you and your crew are safe. I hope your boat didn't take too much damage. I guess BFS stands for Big Freaking Sandbar in your case.  Keep us posted on how the boat is.


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## djodenda

Marty:

Yep, I know about the 22 knots rule. We'll see how it shakes out. If the wind is reasonable and expected to pick up, I'll go with a short course and try and get everyone home before things get ugly.

Jody:
We're OK with staffing for the RC duties. You are, of course, welcome to come with us. I'm planning on running the cabin heater!

Offer still stands to look at your starting problem. Hope's probably not going, so I expect to be at the marina before 9, trying to figure out what's going to happen.

David


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## smackdaddy

Jody - good work, man. That sounds like a very rough day - and it sure seems you handled it well. Hope there's not too much damage. Hang in there, dude.


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## erps

Marty, David and Jody sail an area that can get pretty rough depending on the winds and currents. Jody, I hope you get her runnin' soon.


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## blt2ski

Jody,

What is the word on HG? I saw here at Edmonds about 5 pm while having dinner with Sheryl. Winds were wicked about that time, HG was broadside at the dock to the wind, leaning at least 10 if not 15 degree with bare poles. Looked like a J-boat was ducked in too. Could not quite catch the name, as the transom was beyond finger pier a foot. 

Looked at my boat, needed to tighten up stern dockline about 6-12" or there abouts. Then noticed I left the ST instruments on. Wind was showing 28-33, and I am slightly proteced to the south from covered moorage! I am sure it was more! The rollers were HUGE bouncing off the ferriesas they were coming and going from Edmonds to Kingston.

Marty


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## CharlieCobra

Big stuff out there today, check your lines. Nice to hear ya got off and that VA did ya right. I like those folks and have never been disappointed in their service or skill levels.


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## artbyjody

blt2ski said:


> Jody,
> 
> What is the word on HG? I saw here at Edmonds about 5 pm while having dinner with Sheryl. Winds were wicked about that time, HG was broadside at the dock to the wind, leaning at least 10 if not 15 degree with bare poles. Looked like a J-boat was ducked in too. Could not quite catch the name, as the transom was beyond finger pier a foot.


She will be there until tomorrow afternoon as I didn't venture up there today. Snow in the morning here. The afternoon storm conditions wouldn't of been conducive to working on the boat much less getting her back to Seattle. Lastly, I am recovering today as I am pretty stiff - kinda feel like my body was tossed around by a pro-wrestler.

David was kind enough to go down and check up on the boat for me this afternoon, tidy a few things up for prep of the storm, and hooked up his shore power cord to charge up the batteries. (Thanks again)

Unfortunately, she will heel in the high winds - bare poled, due to the high free board. Which ironically was probably another facet of why we didn't have more issues Sat...I just hope the fenders held out...

Tomorrow, I hope that I can get the engine turned over and verify that the prop wasn't damaged and see about getting her lifted to inspect the damage. I have a feeling it will be a long week.


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## bubb2

Center sound race March 14, 2009

[URL="http://



[/URL]


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## blt2ski

Bubb,

That would be the race!

marty


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## bubb2

Yea Marty, I was messing around with you tube and found it. I thought you guys would like to see it.


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## JohnRPollard

Bubb, Marty,

That was a great video!! Must have been some racing!

Did anybody notice the bright red/orange jib on the boat (boats?) at about 3:30 or so in the clip? Was that a storm jib of some sort, or are bright headsails a new craze on the racing circuit?


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## blt2ski

John,

Not sure what type of jib that was. It did look small-er for that boat. As a lot of fractional rigs did not have their 110's up, but 75-90% jibs. That may have been what was up. 

I made a post on SA last night asking for local Zspar reps, got two PMs this AM< so looks like I'll be/should be back in biz for #3. 

I'd also seen that video earlier on sunday, It's done by a fellow "kite" on SA, and has a local photography studio - "Pacific Fog" or some such thing, will try to find a link in a bit.

Marty


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## artbyjody

Final update - BoatUS is handling the insurance and we will pull it into CSR tomorrow courtesy of Vessel Assist. I opted not to mess with the motor as things are manageable at this point (meaning) - no ingress of water less areas we know about. So, tomorrow at 10:30am we will get towed back to the the second home of "HG" at CSR in Ballard from Edmonds.

There was not a full service yard in Edmonds and CSR knows the boat almost as well as I do at this point. Adjusters will be standing by and all of the issues between the pounding the the rigging took (it was all new but we got pounded so hard the chainplates started leaking like crazy - expected when you are constantly dropped a few feet), bottom, keel, motor etc will be addressed and estimated.

Charlie, SD,* David*, Marty, Smack.. etc thanks much... Tomorrow will be the big day and it will all be descripted on my blog on my sig... After all this is Big Freaking Sails and not Big Frickin Sandbar (as SD noted !)... Thanks again...


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## GeorgeB

Pretty good carnage up there in the PNW. How did the boom go? Broach? Round up? We had the other end of that cold front down here in SF. The wind was in the low to mid twenties, and five foot seas with a three foot wind wave for the Double Handed Lightship Race outside the Gate. We blew out the leach on our 135 genoa, nothing like what you guys had. Fortunately the repair will be finished in time to do the Double Handed Farallones in two weeks.


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## blt2ski

George,

I was heading downwind to get around a bouy to the north and port, and the current was pushig me past the bouy to the south, coming in from the SE. Double reefed, was trying to get by with out gybing, would have done it, if a BIG roller would not have come thru and rolled me port, so the wind caught the main on that side, boome went 180 SB to port, and broke at the back end of the vang connection, and also about where the lower shroud is. Which I believe is where the boom stopped at. Would have possily continured had the 110 jib been up vs down trying to get the strom jib up for the upwind leg. Decided the better part of valor was to motor home. 

We may very well have ended up quitting any way if under jib alone, as my HP is halfway between the start and turn bouy. Race was about 12-13 mile north and south route as the crow flies. 

Overall a good day, one sailmake has 22 bags of sails to repair. a few other odds and ends to fix. Ordered a new boom and gooseneck for my rig a bit ago. ~$400 plus shipping from east coast. About half of what I thought a boom would be. Two locals tried, Thanks to the folks at CSR and NW Rigging for there efforts. 

Sounds like I will be on the line for CSS#3. a 30'ish mile south to north sail! Hopefully something a bit less but still steady like last saturday vs race one, which had lulls to just over 20 knots in less than 15 min, SW to 15 then out of NW to 22 in less than 100 yds! Lots of fun if the spin was up! Typical March sailing!

Marty


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## smackdaddy

Man - I just want to tell you guys - you're what makes sailing look so damn fun to the world.

Yeah I know everyone always goes on and on about not breakin' stuff, sailing flat, blah, blah. But when I see these videos and pics I can't wait for my next BFS. Seriously.

Thanks for showing us all how it's done fellas! You guys freakin' rock!

PS - Jody, I look forward to your write up on your blog. Hang in there bro.


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## CharlieCobra

Eh.., pretty much standard sailing up here when It ain't Summer. It's either blowing 5 or 50 from September to July.


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## artbyjody

Damage way less than what I expected - BoatUS may think otherwise. 

Considering the 5 hours of being ping ponged .... this is the major extent - rest of pics on sig...See SA for the rant against my handling of everything...



















Considering the location, the conditions, the boat damage is way less than I at least expected and we all got home safely with a story to tell...It was what it was... At CSR Marine in Ballard where I am sure it will all be fixed in short order... I did make their "book" after all... End of story - everything is manageable and my crew managed this in the conditions as stated... looks bad - but could of really been way worse...


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## djodenda

Aw... 

Jody....

Looks like you made the correct decision bringing her right to CSR...

I looked for the Girl Scout cookies aboard, but couldn't find them.

You didn't eat them all, did you?

Looking forward to seeing you back in the water soon.

David


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## artbyjody

djodenda said:


> Aw...
> 
> Jody....
> 
> Looks like you made the correct decision bringing her right to CSR...
> 
> I looked for the Girl Scout cookies aboard, but couldn't find them.
> 
> You didn't eat them all, did you?
> 
> Looking forward to seeing you back in the water soon.
> 
> David


I ate not one - and the bevs went to the crew... Yeah - CSR is all over it and glad that they are on it... Just how I am ... no cookies for me


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## djodenda

And as far as the SA guys are concerned, don't let a few rude people stop you from sharing your experiences in your generous effort to help other sailors.

You are, again, doing the right thing, and I am proud to be your friend, and fellow member of this community.

David

P.S. I need to get Kyrie's bottom painted.. Do you think I can get on some kind of group discount at CSR with you?


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## bluwateronly

Could you please tell me wtf happened. I just don't get the dammage. did you hit something? Looks like she came apart and still don't get the keel damage. No disrespect, at all, just want to know why a boat would have keel damage and hull fracture on a bad jibe. Did I miss something. I checked SA but sorry did not want to wade through to find out. Glad you and crew are okay. Please tell me more, please.


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## artbyjody

djodenda said:


> And as far as the SA guys are concerned, don't let a few rude people stop you from sharing your experiences in your generous effort to help other sailors.
> 
> You are, again, doing the right thing, and I am proud to be your friend, and fellow member of this community.
> 
> David
> 
> P.S. I need to get Kyrie's bottom painted.. Do you think I can get on some kind of group discount at CSR with you?


Ask for Frank... and tell him "Hello Gorgeous"... Yeah the SA thing in about 24 hours will be all hypothetical. It was what it was and had the boat been not been addressed to in regards to how the crew did - would of been a salvage deal... One can always argue the merits of never bein/ getting in the situation - very few will argue about the merits of actually getting through it - which we did exceptionally well...all things considered.


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## bluwateronly

Sorry man should have checked back farther. Got it and thank you for sharing.


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## sailingdog

Jody-

Is that a crack in the hull in this photo??? Or is it just where the bottom paint got damaged??


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## artbyjody

sailingdog said:


> Jody-
> 
> Is that a crack in the hull in this photo??? Or is it just where the bottom paint got damaged??


That is just an anonmally. Reflection from the surrounding. It was not cracked


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## CharlieCobra

bluwateronly said:


> Could you please tell me wtf happened. I just don't get the dammage. did you hit something? Looks like she came apart and still don't get the keel damage. No disrespect, at all, just want to know why a boat would have keel damage and hull fracture on a bad jibe. Did I miss something. I checked SA but sorry did not want to wade through to find out. Glad you and crew are okay. Please tell me more, please.


It might help if you slow down and read the thread. It was well explained.


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## CharlieCobra

Jody, I saw that "holier than thou" post by MT. As if he's never f'd up.... Don't sweat it. Ya made some mistakes but handled the resultant emergency just fine. I will agree that this is an example of what can happen if you reef too much, as espoused by some on this forum.


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## sailingdog

Good.... over all, then, I think you got off quite light... make sure that they check the hull-keel join supports... don't want you and your boat pulling a Cynthia Woods on us. 



artbyjody said:


> That is just an anonmally. Reflection from the surrounding. It was not cracked


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## erps

I feel for you Jody. On the bright side, you've joined a new club, as there are two types of boaters, those that have gone aground and those that haven't gone aground yet.

It looks like the damage is the the fiberglass fairing?


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## smackdaddy

In which thread are they harshing Jody on SA?


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## blt2ski

The CYC Center Sound Series started by Mordacious. A few minutes ago it was about 10-15 post down in the upper sailing thread area.

CYC Center Sound Series - Sailing Anarchy Forums

Marty


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## sailingdog

Erps-

Usually it is *Those who have gone aground* and *those who lie about it*... 


erps said:


> I feel for you Jody. On the bright side, you've joined a new club, as there are two types of boaters, those that have gone aground and those that haven't gone aground yet.
> 
> It looks like the damage is the the fiberglass fairing?


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## blt2ski

I'm also recalling a YC in London? no dues, you get in by initiation only! it was started by two bigger big wig sailors in London as I recall. Do not recall the actual name, but it is for folks that have "GOOD groundings" of there boats. I would Jody and Jam the other boat that grounded last saturday qualify for membership!

Marty


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## bubb2

sailingdog said:


> Erps-
> 
> Usually it is *Those who have gone aground* and *those who lie about it*...


I don't lie about it. I have only be aground__________times!


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## artbyjody

erps said:


> I feel for you Jody. On the bright side, you've joined a new club, as there are two types of boaters, those that have gone aground and those that haven't gone aground yet.
> 
> It looks like the damage is the the fiberglass fairing?


Well, damage is definitely a bit (a lot) more intensive now. I arrived early this morning, to meet the surveyor and was greeted by "HG" with a pool of oil mixed with water at the bottom of the keel. So, that definitely confirmed that the damage is a bit more extensive (a keel bolt is loose). Due the framing structure that supports the keel - it will be a very costly job. The interior will have to be removed, keel will have to be dropped, re-faired, etc...

However, the positive side to all this is: if this doesn't become a salvage boat, I'll have plenty of time to do properly do all the interior varnish work and install a new bilge system properly.

Everyone seems to think it is doable (always that false hope / negotiation deal) but no one will really know until the sub flooring (it is glassed in / over the fiberglass framing that runs parallel to the steel framing the keel is attached to) is removed, water / oil pumped out, and they can assess how it is all attached and what is damaged structurally. Probably will be a good week or so before I know where we get to go with this. However, the surveyor did mention to me that we did the right thing. Had the boat been allowed to take on water (from the listing after becoming aground), it would of been a loss from the word go.


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## CharlieCobra

That would have been a real shame, especially considering the rarity of HG. I mean, Oh Joy is a one of a kind custom build but there were at least 6 Knutson yawls built.


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## GeorgeB

Blt2ski - I'm glad that your boom is well on its way to repair and not so expensive. I'm assuming that they are sending you a blank and that you will be doing all the remounting. At least that way you will get it done right and make any necessary improvements to the original, "stock" spar. If I can make a suggestion/ Use Teffgel (not Tuffgel) to mount your hardware. Tuffgel will act as a lubricant under vibration and you may find your screws unexpectantly backing themselves out (We found out the hardway on the PacCup when our mast t-track started to work itself loose). The Teffgel has just enough adhesive to lock but not enough to seize up. Sort of like blue lock tight which will also isolate dissimilar metals. I'm no longer a fan of lanocote as it is messy and it will ooze out when warmed by the sun. My little sail repair will set me back some $150 so you are indeed fortunate.

Artbyjody - sorry to hear of your travails. As you know by now, you will get no compassion or understanding by the posters at SA. Their bravura is entertaining to read and sometimes you find a pearl of wisdom. But their site is all about trash talk which is ironic insomuch that they are constantly complaining that racing is dying and they can't figure out how to attract more participation. Go figure. If those guys were on the Sea of Galilee when Jesus walked on the water, they'd probably complain that he did so because he couldn't swim.

I, for one, am interested in your story, but, not being from the area, am a little confused as to some of the details. Could you make a little sketch or something? Was this a windward mark where you were changing course to a reaching leg? And where was the shoal in relation to the mark? I'm assuming that you called it in to vessel assist and that they were several hours away. Did you try to use your anchor to check your drift? And please, go over again how you were able to keep the boat upright when the tide was at its lowest. You might want to consider writing up your incident in detail and submitting it to Sail magazine's "Voice of Experience" feature. I'm sure that many other people will want to learn from your experience. I wish for you a speedy repair and that Hello Gorgeous comes back better than ever.

Smack - As you probably figured out by now, broken boats sail real slow and they are expensive to repair. And money spent on repairs is not being spent on improvements and new gear. A couple hundred dollars of repairs after each race is the price of a new spinnaker for me at the end of the season. Besides, my wife says I'm just one big disaster away from retiring from racing so I gotta play it cool. And, when are you coming out to the Bay Area? I want to show you what sailing in real salt water and in real wind is all about.


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## blt2ski

George,

Believe it or not, that is complete! per original specs, by the spar manufacture! along with a new gooseneck for the $425-450. I have a pretty small 10' boom and actual spar. 

Hopefully it will get from Fl to up here by the end of next week. All I will then have to do is mount the pulleys, sheaves etc for the main sheet, run the lines for out haul and 2 reefs, take off and mount a new gooseneck. Altho if everything shows up friday, I may mount the boom on current gooseneck, and redo the gooseneck sunday. Looks like I may have a full 6 person crew which makes things easier on my boat instead of the 4 the last two weeks.

I'll agree on the repair part. Been pretty luck so far, but a new code 5 spin and pole is on the list of improvements for the year, but my biz better pickup or...........

Marty


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## artbyjody

GeorgeB said:


> Blt2ski - I'm glad that your boom is well on its way to repair and not so expensive. I'm assuming that they are sending you a blank and that you will be doing all the remounting. At least that way you will get it done right and make any necessary improvements to the original, "stock" spar. If I can make a suggestion/ Use Teffgel (not Tuffgel) to mount your hardware. Tuffgel will act as a lubricant under vibration and you may find your screws unexpectantly backing themselves out (We found out the hardway on the PacCup when our mast t-track started to work itself loose). The Teffgel has just enough adhesive to lock but not enough to seize up. Sort of like blue lock tight which will also isolate dissimilar metals. I'm no longer a fan of lanocote as it is messy and it will ooze out when warmed by the sun. My little sail repair will set me back some $150 so you are indeed fortunate.
> 
> Artbyjody - sorry to hear of your travails. As you know by now, you will get no compassion or understanding by the posters at SA. Their bravura is entertaining to read and sometimes you find a pearl of wisdom. But their site is all about trash talk which is ironic insomuch that they are constantly complaining that racing is dying and they can't figure out how to attract more participation. Go figure. If those guys were on the Sea of Galilee when Jesus walked on the water, they'd probably complain that he did so because he couldn't swim.
> 
> I, for one, am interested in your story, but, not being from the area, am a little confused as to some of the details. Could you make a little sketch or something? Was this a windward mark where you were changing course to a reaching leg? And where was the shoal in relation to the mark? I'm assuming that you called it in to vessel assist and that they were several hours away. Did you try to use your anchor to check your drift? And please, go over again how you were able to keep the boat upright when the tide was at its lowest. You might want to consider writing up your incident in detail and submitting it to Sail magazine's "Voice of Experience" feature. I'm sure that many other people will want to learn from your experience. I wish for you a speedy repair and that Hello Gorgeous comes back better than ever.
> 
> Smack - As you probably figured out by now, broken boats sail real slow and they are expensive to repair. And money spent on repairs is not being spent on improvements and new gear. A couple hundred dollars of repairs after each race is the price of a new spinnaker for me at the end of the season. Besides, my wife says I'm just one big disaster away from retiring from racing so I gotta play it cool. And, when are you coming out to the Bay Area? I want to show you what sailing in real salt water and in real wind is all about.


G, thanks for the perspective - gotta say, less the damages - we could of been worse. I am a bit taken aback from the flak I got, and now at a point of possibly losing my boat. Under my command we went from a 40 degree list to less than a 20 when aground...saving the boat - an anchor would of just complicated things as we never didn't move an inch gps wise until VA arrived... the full details are on my blog somewhere in my sig.. The crew and the fact they believed in the boat - all vested their personal lives to seeing her through and she delivered... and that is about the end of the story less what comes of the bill to repair... And yeah - we need not discuss the merits of SA as the types of friends I have made have been here on Sailnet .... Again David, thanks your shorepower cord is back on your boat...


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## bubb2

Wind! Here's wind!

[URL="http://



[/URL]


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## smackdaddy

Zie mein ondevare ein en tvisterhosen!


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## CharlieCobra

bluwateronly said:


> Sorry man should have checked back farther. Got it and thank you for sharing.


I missed this and said this:



CharlieCobra; said:


> It might help if you slow down and read the thread. It was well explained.


My apologies bluwateronly.


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## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> Smack - As you probably figured out by now, broken boats sail real slow and they are expensive to repair. And money spent on repairs is not being spent on improvements and new gear. A couple hundred dollars of repairs after each race is the price of a new spinnaker for me at the end of the season. Besides, my wife says I'm just one big disaster away from retiring from racing so I gotta play it cool. And, when are you coming out to the Bay Area? I want to show you what sailing in real salt water and in real wind is all about.


Trust me, I'm not an advocate of or groupie on the whole breakin' stuff thing. I can definitely see how expensive it gets. I just love the fact that guys are willing to get out in the snot and sail.

But this brings up an interesting point. As much as I like watching the big, ocean races, I'm personally not all that interested in racing myself (at least at this point). After hanging around SA for a long time and hearing the die-hards lament the fact that their sport is dying a slow, painful death...and after thinking about why that is...I think it just comes down to the equation of money vs. excitement. Sailing itself is freakin' expensive. And seriously racing a sailboat is exponentially expensive from what I've seen. You start to factor in the expensive-light-gear/heavy-air-sea equations and you've got a recipe for draining your bank account very quickly. Is it worth it?

Let's take a look at the ROI on that investment in terms of excitement - both for the general public and the sailing world. Unless we're talking about the Vendee or the VOR - the other 99% of the racing done out there is really pretty boring to the outsider. This and the expense of it is why the sport won't grow I think. It's just not that cool to a public who'd much rather watch the X-Games that involve crazy excitement on junk they can afford (motorcycles, skateboards, bmx bikes, etc.). Relative to that world - a yacht race is like watching a chess game. Boring as hell. And most could never afford to play anyway. So public excitement (which can obviously offset costs through marketing) is pretty much a lost cause unless Chall and I can figure out a way to direct coverage of the Vendee in a way that's much more exciting than it currently is (have your people call my people).

But let's keep the argument within the sailing world and look at the return on the expense of even semi-serious racing. Sure, racing is great excitement for the skippers, the crews, and the club that loses money putting it on - but what's the real payoff even within the realm of sailing? Most of the sailing world doesn't even seem to care about racing all that much. So the wider prestige of it can't be the motivator, right?

My hunch is that most will say it's just the excitement of doing it. Fair enough. And I absolutely have to give the racers credit in that they don't seem to bat an eye at having a full main and spin flying in 30+ knots. Them's stones - I don't care who you are. But then it's back to ROI. Is racing worth the money you have to continually sink into it?

Because of this thread, I have this feeling that there is a significant middle ground between cruising and racing that appeals to a lot of people. Something far more exciting than your typical no-heel conservatives buffing their biminis, but far less insane than balls-out racers going through 6 $3000 spinnakers in a season. And I'm wondering what exactly that world looks like.

I'd be very interested in having sailors around here weigh in on this.

George - I'll get out there soon (hopefully in the next 2-3 months). I promise. I have got A LOT to learn about this sport, dude. Please keep the invite open.


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## Sanduskysailor

2008 Mills Race, first leg is a 17-1/2 mile downwind sleigh ride in 20-25 knot wind out of the WSW. We are the first in our class to pop the chute and we take off doing 9s and 10s I tell a new crew member to ease the guy and he lets it go instead. Mondo broach, which we recover from pretty quickly because the trimmer on the sheet dumps it quickly. (Note to self, not a good idea to get bowperson submerged to her waist and dragging through the water when she is your wife.) Back up again and flying as the other 9 boats in class ponder whether flying the chute in the wave conditions is such a wise idea. We round Middle Sister Island first in an hour and 55 minutes which is pretty good for a Sabre28 (average speed for 17-1/2 miles over 8knots). We have managed to sail through 3 boats in the class that started 10 minutes ahead of us with 30 sec/mi faster handicaps. The wind has subsided to about 15 knots so we put up the #2 for the 11 mile beat towards Green Island. The waves have died off to 4 feet so the ride isn't too bad. We see a large thunderstorm off to the west but ascertain it is at least 20 miles away and moving to the west and north of us. Life is good as the Sabre really likes these conditions. We are leading our fleet and dreams of an overall win and the picnic table sized flag that goes with it start to creep into my head. At 10:00pm we are 2 miles northwest of Green Island when visibility deteriorates precipitously. The wind softens to about 10 knots then wham! We are hit by driving water and 60 knots+ of wind. The Sabre lays over as I struggle to steer up into the wind. I immediately dump the main and #2 which luff violently. There is no way that I would let the crew try to get the sails down in these conditions. 3minutes into the squall we hear a loud boom, almost like an explosion. I look up to see the rig flying over the side in 3 pieces. The boom hangs on top of the lifelines attached to a stub of the deck stepped mast held on by the Garhauer rigid vang. The rest of the rig including the sails are over the side with the rig banging under the boat in a tangled mess. In another 3 minutes the rain had stopped and wind was back to 10knots. The crew immediately sets about cutting the halyards, pole lifts, vang controls etc to jettison the rig. The sound of the tangled rig banging on the side of the boat hastened the speed in which we did this. Not an easy feat in the dark and lying abeam to 4 foot steep chop. Fortunately the turnbuckles were pinned with Johnson wrap pins. It was easy to rip off the wrap pin and unscrew the turnbuckles. We cleaned up the mess and dumped everything over the side. I waited a few minutes as we watched the mess sink. Everybody listened to see if we could hear the rig banging anymore. I nervously started the engine which started on the first turn. I counted to 10, crossed my fingers and dropped it into gear not daring to let my hand off the gear shift. Thankfully, no screeching sounds so we motored the 5 miles to Put in Bay. As we approached the dock, my wife quipped that at least there were no wet sails to fold and that there would be more room to sleep on the boat. All I could think of was what fun it was going to be to deal with the insurance people and if I was going to get to sail the boat again that summer.

Epilogue- It turns out that we were hit by a microburst. Winds reported by other boats were from 60-80knots. The almost zero visibility and rain was actually the surface water being picked up by the microburst. The weather radar showed that the microburst jumped around as it hopscotched through the fleet. A lot of boats(45)lost sails or had damage and at least 2 crew on other boats were washed overboard and later recovered. The Insurance company treated me fairly and I ended up getting a deal on a C&C29-II with the proceeds. I'll have to wait another year to try to get that humongous brag flag shown below in someone else's hands. Anyone want to buy a Sabre28-II without a rig cheap??


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## smackdaddy

Holy BFS Sandusky! 60 to 80??? Ouch! At least you've got cool wife and a new boat.

BTW - I'll pass on the Sabre, thought she does sound like one tough mutha.


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## blt2ski

Well as of about 1pm PSDT and about 4=5pm eastern time in FL, my new boom should be on a truck to the opposite corner of the US. Hopefully it will be here by wednesday, on the boat by friday eve and off to the races saturday AM!

Emailed with jody a few times today, he is taking saturday pretty rough! HG is close to a total, found out his airstream and Jag had tree's fall on them saturday.............he's not real happy. He is not being flamed as bad on SA any more, most are acutally semi incouraging. Hopefully he gets out of this slump and goes on with life. I'm recalling him losing a job of some sort at MS a month or so too. not good times for him!

Any of you with a ph# or email, try to cheer him up if you can.

marty


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## CharlieCobra

I just yakked at him over the phone. He's a bit ragged but doing ok. It's just been a crappy year so far. I know the feeling.....


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## artbyjody

I am doing better - websites online... you'd never imagine whom posted a comment. 

Well do your research - we are live for awhile... I never make this stuff up... and yeah - I think we are in a ok position. Pics on blog, but nothing structural I can see - a keel bolt loose I think explains (IMHO) the oil leak through the keel...Won't know till mid of week but I think it may be looking up.. I hope...


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## painkiller

smackdaddy said:


> Trust me, I'm not an advocate of or groupie on the whole breakin' stuff thing. I can definitely see how expensive it gets. I just love the fact that guys are willing to get out in the snot and sail.
> 
> But this brings up an interesting point. As much as I like watching the big, ocean races, I'm personally not all that interested in racing myself (at least at this point).


Hey, Smack. Race on someone else's boat. You get the thrills without the bills and a good skipper feeds his crew.

I've learned a lot from racing. It gets me out in weather that I never would've gone out in otherwise. Now my get-nervous threshold is far higher.


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## twinsdad

*Between racing and cruising*

Smackdaddy,

I think each of us will have our own viewpoint. I used to race 420's in college, had a long hiatus, and then did some local racing (Sag Harbor, NY back then) on my Express 34. As I got married and had kids, I've modified my thinking on performance sailing. One is to have a boat that can give you speed, and sail it as aggressively as you choose even when cruising. Another alternative is some of the longer (though not ocean) long-day or multi-day races. Depending on conditions, you may not be risking all your equipment.

You also have to accept that maybe you're not going for the trophy. Maybe you're going for the experience, deciding how hard you want to push yourself and your boat. It's all about the compromises we choose. A previous writer is also right, you could choose to do your racing on other people's boats. That's what I do when I want to push harder. Other benefits include meeting new people and learning from more experienced sailors.

As part of my personal compromise, I am buying a catamaran and selling my current boat. I'm doing this so I can enjoy the boat more with the family. Having done the test sail on the new boat, I was pleasantly surprised how fun it is to sail. Be sure, I will be trying to see how fast I can safely sail her.

I've read some of your posts on other threads, and you strike me as someone who does a good job of planning and analyzing what you can, and can not, do. Use your head, but figure out a balance that makes the sport fun and worthwhile for you - whether that's cruising or racing.

I'm looking forward to start reading some threads from you about your fun experiences out there!!!


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## CharlieCobra

Smack's a pretty cool youngster and has two cute boys to teach about sailing. We kinda hung it out to dry when I went down and sailed with him and ended up with a bit of carnage but we were killing the entire fleet, at least until we shredded the jib.


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## smackdaddy

Thanks Charlie. That's still the most fun I've had on the water dude. I learned a whole lot from you - and can't wait until we can do it again - either on the _Smacktanic _or _Oh Joy_. And the boys still talk about you. I still can't keep the 5 year old from dropping the F-bomb when he smokes a stogie. You had quite an impact.

Twins - great post. I think you summed it up pretty well, dude. I'm definitely in learning mode right now - but I do have a goal. And I think it might be Cracing...or maybe Ruising.

Honestly, for me, here's the deal. I just want to be prepared to deal with "big" stuff. Not necessarily to go seek it out by any means - but just be confident that I at least have a plan. [Okay - maybe seek some of it out.] That's what's so great about the BFS sailors around here. They're willing to teach knuckleheads like me.

And, c'mon, it's freakin' exciting. Right?

Now go throw down some multi-madness and become the lone voice of BFS reason for the multi world!


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## Bene505

Smack - I'm with you on the learning and a little bit of seeking. If you come up to NY sometime we'll throwdown a good sail or two.


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## tdw

Jody,
Good to see that it has turned out reasonably well for you all things considered. I havn't seen the SA thread yet (what was it called ?) but let's face it , most of us have touched bottom at some time or another and the only difference between a hard and a soft landing is luck or lack thereof. 
Cheers


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## CharlieCobra

I talked to Jody and it not looking like a salvage job for HG. It looks as if CSR will be able to repair her just fine.


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## CharlieCobra

tdw said:


> Jody,
> Good to see that it has turned out reasonably well for you all things considered. I havn't seen the SA thread yet (what was it called ?) but let's face it , most of us have touched bottom at some time or another and the only difference between a hard and a soft landing is luck or lack thereof.
> Cheers


He didn't just touch bottom, he got lifted and pounded on it for hours on end. HG just happens to be a very tough old girl.


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## artbyjody

For Smack - since he loves this stuff..










Thanks Charlie - yep it looks we may pull through this... See the blog on my sig for pics etc - but she is indeed stout.. awesome crew to boot as all stayed onboard....


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## smackdaddy

HOLY CRAP JODY!!!! That is freakin' BEAUTIFUL!!

Wow..damn right I love that stuff. You are smokin' pal! Is that pic from the race?

BTW - I'm really glad to hear that HG is on the mend. You had me worried, dude.


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## artbyjody

smackdaddy said:


> HOLY CRAP JODY!!!! That is freakin' BEAUTIFUL!!
> 
> Wow..damn right I love that stuff. You are smokin' pal! Is that pic from the race?
> 
> BTW - I'm really glad to hear that HG is on the mend. You had me worried, dude.


Thanks at that point we were doing 14 or so SOG, and pics from the race....


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## CharlieCobra

Yep, you know you're smokin' along when the bow wave is green water.


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## mrwuffles

I have to say that is one awesome picture, is that seaweed scattered on your deck?


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## tdw

CharlieCobra said:


> He didn't just touch bottom, he got lifted and pounded on it for hours on end. HG just happens to be a very tough old girl.


Charlie,
I did read the thread and was in no way making light of what happened to HG and her crew. My meaning was that in luckier circumstances one could touch bottom, spin the wheel and sail right off again. Sadly for HG that wasn't the case and they had the crap beaten out of them. My point was that we have probably all touched bottom at some time or other but not all of us have had the bad luck to get a pounding from it.
Cheers


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## smackdaddy

mrwuffles said:


> I have to say that is one awesome picture, is that seaweed scattered on your deck?


Dude - when are you splashing the Hobie? Can't wait to see some hull flying!


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## CharlieCobra

tdw said:


> Charlie,
> I did read the thread and was in no way making light of what happened to HG and her crew. My meaning was that in luckier circumstances one could touch bottom, spin the wheel and sail right off again. Sadly for HG that wasn't the case and they had the crap beaten out of them. My point was that we have probably all touched bottom at some time or other but not all of us have had the bad luck to get a pounding from it.
> Cheers


I didn't think you were. Just thought ya missed how bad it was is all. The first and last time I grounded Oh Joy in the mud IN THE MIDDLE OF A MARKED CHANNEL!, I pushed and backed while spinning from left to right until I dug a trench deep enough to back off. There's times when a 50 HP, a full keel and skeg hung rudder come in handy.


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## mrwuffles

once water temp is 60-70 I'll be happy right now we are at 40 probably a month or so, be patient you will have all the hull flying you need.


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## CharlieCobra

mrwuffles, ya should've seen the time I had to go up the mast to get the kelp out of my spreaders on Oh Joy. I should've taken a pic I guess.


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## pgiann

*Bfs In Safe Channel*

About 6 mos after I bought a Catalina 30 we came back from a daysail thru Angel's Gate = main entrance to LA Harbor. Storm warnings were up and winds started to stay over 20 knots with gusts to 29. As we took the jib down using the furler line, the jib sheets got twisted around the furler. Sent my crew to unscramble it, but the wind kept pushing the stern around and tightening the knotted jib line. The Atomic had just enough power to keep us moving and darkness fell suddenly. 30 minute later we still were going in a circle, couldn't reef the main (no reef ties) and now the swells and wind made it very tricky to be on deck in the vicinity of the jib lines, which were whipping around like spagetti in unpredictable patterns. We finally called vessel assist, but got LA Harbor Patrol instead. They boarded and couldn't get jib free either and suggested I cut my new sail. Finally, an eternity later, one of the deputies who was persistent and had sailing experience got it free. We were at the main entrance to the harbor and a definite navigation hazard, not to mention a hazrd to ourselves with a vessel that was headed for the rocks several times. 
My solution was to re-rig the jib, but I still don't know how the sheets got so tangled. Obviously we should have brought her more into the wind before trying to work the furler, but tjat doesn't seem a fully satisfactory answer to me. Any suggestions, as leaving the jib in place would have brought us into the slip at an uncontrollable speed, and taking down the main would have meant a loss of sterrability.


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## sailingdog

When you first heard the storm warnings...you probably should have started to reduce sail. *If you haven't rigged your reefing lines for the reef points in your main in SIX FREAKING MONTHS, don't you think you might want to do that soon.* You also need to learn how to use your furler in heavy wind conditions. Letting the clew of the jib flog without any tension on the jibsheets will generally tangle the sheets pretty well, especially if you're motoring in circles.

It also sounds like you don't have jacklines, tethers or harnesses setup on the boat... which you should also probably remedy sooner rather than later.


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## smackdaddy

Hey pg, what Dog is trying to say is that he's infallible. Kind of the Pope of Sailing who likes to trash people for screwing up like they should always know better - like him. (Dog - didn't you get a time out once on the treatment of newbs?). Blow him off - pg.

Anyway, thanks for the post. It does sound like you definitely had some big freakin' sail up and got caught! Everyone's been there. Hang around here and there will be some other seasoned salts come along to give you some non-eyerolling advice on your sail configuration.

Welcome to Sailnet, dude. And don't forget to kiss Dog's ring.


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## blt2ski

As smack says, there is ALWAYS one person that has to say they know everything, yadda yadda yadda! SD is that one here on SN. 

I wish I could help, but I do not have a lot of experience with furlers. Other than my first thought if possible, would have been to drop the jib itself, if "THAT" was possible. Then rehoist the jib at the dock. That of course is assuming you could unfurl the part that was furled. 

Again, hopefully someone with some experience will show up to give you some GOOD pointers on how to deal with the issue.

In the mean time, winds for saturday are 20-30, even to 35 out of the south-SW, and my replacement boom will not be here until mid week,..........next week.....waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Luv to try out the storm jib this weekend.

May have oneother option yet, will see......... 

marty


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## CharlieCobra

pgiann, the likely reason they got tangled was that you didn't maintain tension on the sheets while furling. Anytime you're forced to furl in heavy air, always have a crew member maintain some tension. Not only will it keep the sheets from fouling, it will make for a tighter roll which will make it less likely for the jib to unroll in the heavy air. I'm a prime believer in OJT. It's how I got most of my "useful" experience. Lessons like that aren't quickly forgotten. That which doesn't kill you, serves to make you stronger.

SD, take a pill already.


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## sailhog

Giulietta, who is a member of this forum, has a drawing somewhere around here that illustrates a method of taming a rogue jib. If I remember correctly, it involves wrapping your main or spinnaker halyard around forestay of the wildly flogging jib several times, and then shackling it to the tack. Once this is done, you "raise" the halyard, thereby gathering the rogue jib around the forestay.

This is a poor description, but you get the idea. It would be best to try and find and study this remedy. Someone around here will know where it is. It's pretty dang ingenous.


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## smackdaddy

Yeah, I remember that Hog. It was a very cool technique I just don't remember the details either. I'm a hank-on guy right now.

I do remember that we were talking about it after the nasty story about that Swiss dude getting knocked OB after the furling drum cut loose from it's anchor-plate and started flailing around in a storm. What....20 pounds of steel swinging around all crazy in 40 knots and you're trying to bring it down on a pitching deck? Jeez - that's enough to make anyone swallow hard.


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## CharlieCobra

If ya get in that situation, the best thing to do IMHO would be to blow the furling line and then the jib halyard. Then run offwind to lower the apparent wind. Hopefully, the jib would unfurl, slide down the foil and bunch up at the bottom. This would slow the oscillation down a bunch and after you sheet the mess as much as you could, you could possibly get a line on the rest and tie it all to the foredeck. It would increase windage but it would try to destroy the boat anymore.

Edit: Ya know, I was thinking about this some more and came to the conclusion that there'd be a safer way to do this. Say the furler breaks loose while the foresail is furled. Simply leave it furled and sheet in tight on both sides. This should pin it against either the cabin front or the hull and stop the flogging. You could then, assuming you fly a spinnaker, attach the downhual to the furler foil clip and adjust the three lines to center and pin the whole setup. I would still run offwind to do this to not only lower the apparent wind but to keep from stuffing the bow while the crew is working the foredeck. If the sail is out, you could still pin the foil with the sheets and then reset the drum/foil or pin it using the method above. The biggest risk would be getting knocked OB by the sail.


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## twinsdad

*In Defense of Sailingdog*

I guess I'll be in the minority, but I have to agree with SD. There are certain preparations you should make on a boat. All of his suggestions made sense to me. Let's face it, we have all made mistakes - I could fill a book with mine. Nonetheless, I am always trying to be prepared as best as possible for whatever is thrown at me.

Smackdaddy, I would have thought you would agree with SD. After all, I have seen you ask a lot of very good questions about how to sail in heavy weather before actually encountering it.

Anyway, just my opinion. Let the debate go on.


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## CharlieCobra

I agree with being prepared but everybody makes mistakes, especially when starting out.


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## mrwuffles

CharlieCobra said:


> I agree with being prepared but everybody makes mistakes, especially when starting out.


And it doesn't help when you have someone who makes you feel like **** after making the mistake instead of just saying something nice.


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## twinsdad

*We all make mistakes*

I agree that no one should make you feel bad for making a mistake. There are only three types of sailors: Those who have made mistakes, those who have never sailed, and liars. I must say, though, that I think SD was trying to provide some useful advice. I would rather have someone let me know what I did wrong than just sugar coat it. One of the reasons I really like this site is the good advice you can get on so many relevant topics.

Just by going out there and braving the elements, you have done far more than the average person. But it really is great when you learn from what you did wrong, so you don't make the same mistake twice. After all there are so many other great mistakes we can all make.

Have fun out there.


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## blt2ski

The other to think about re PG's question, he was asking for what he could have done better. To bold type, write that you should not be out there yadda yadda......... sorry, that's incorrect. It would have been better to put that at the end of the quote, NOT in bold. And describe initially what he could have done better. 

Jody, another contributor here, got blasted the same way on SA about a grounding two weeks. Meanwhile, my breaking a boom, another boat grounding, did not get the time of day for many reasons shapes or forms. 

But to chastise a person for asking what they could have done different, better etc. thats WRONG! to a few of us, that is what SD is doing here!

marty
Also a dad of twins!


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## CharlieCobra

You'll also note that the subsequent posts contained useful information with regards to avoiding that problem in the future or ways to address it safely if it occurs again.


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## artbyjody

Not going to jump into the fray of whom is right or wrong. Even with the interpretation of a post seeming malicious - there can be something to learn from. Most of all this online stuff is impersonal - what makes it a value is the friendships you achieve in real life from those you meet because of being online. 

That being said. 

There are quite a few considerations to be made when dealing with a furling issue - and I offer this as perspective of my own dealing with these experiences.

1. Take the panic out of the situation. Often is easy enough to go "my sails" oh crap etc and not try to analyze the situation.

2. Make sure someone is competent at the helm and they understand what the foredeck individual is trying to accomplish. This is the MOST IMPORTANT SAFETY consideration to consider. When blowing snot and you have flogging lines and sails - makes it a terribly dangerous situation for whomever is on the foredeck. There is enough force being generated in those conditions that a line snapping at, snapping during, or just in general force of the sail - that someone will get hurt (and sometimes fatally). Being able to communicate and having a helm that can understand the communication. 

If you happen to have someone inexperienced - take the time-out, to brief before, demonstrate and otherwise illustrate - that extra ten minutes perhaps, will go a long way to manage the situation. It also takes the panic out of the situation.

3. Be prepared to cut a line or two and have an additional one at the ready. IN most cases - you probably have spinnaker sheets that can be rigged. When dealing with a furler issue - your best course is pointing into the wind (just as you would do when raising or lowering the main). This will minimize the flogging force excerted on the sail and allow handling of the sail. But - do - tether in, and know when to duck and let go. You have time. 

A lot of people simply secure the sheets to the genoa via a knot. I can tell you - almost impossible to undo most any knot under any significant stress. In this case - be prepared to not play hero - simply cut it. Having a spare sheet ready to go and once secured then heading up - will give you time. Again - helming of the boat is as critical as job of whom is on the foredeck. The helm MUST know what your intentions are as verbal communications will not be possible.

Take breaks often - most first attempts will not work and one will excert a huge amount of physical energy to try to manage the situation. Patience is the key. 

Use the assetts you have. Cleats up forward can be a tremendous help in securing a line and allowing work to be done. Once sheets are untangled or the sail can now be loaded properly through a tack - then you can immediatedly drop the sail. Forget about furling it - won't happen. 

You (OP of this scenario) handled it. I'll be the first to tell you - there is never an easier way because textbook scenarios when sailing rarely exists. Understanding your boat, the situation, and communication you have (coupled with the experience your crew has) - are the important components - but the one I emphasize - "Remove the panic (safety a big aspect here)", "Be able to step back and re-analyze when first attempt doesn't work" and "Communication". 


On "HG", to address the issue if the headstay turnbuckle was to shear - we have two downhauls at the ready - ready to hook up, tie in or otherwise. Probably will be a two person job but getting a line through the drum, around the pulpit stantions or forward cleats (like a towing bridle) could possibly allow handling and securing. Always carry additional line in your anchor locker - or simply use docking lines if you have to....

Just some thoughts on it - as I have been through various scenarios that parrallel the one you described. Patience, constant re-evaluating, and communication....


----------



## Bene505

You gotta love SD though. Not sure if everyone watches or not, but SD is the Simon Cowell here that won't let us forget that we could have avoided the mistake.

Maybe it's just harsh when it's the first reply to the "confession" post. Maybe that's why they never let Simon go first on the show. But give me an SD (or a Simon) every time.


----------



## mrwuffles

Bene505 said:


> You gotta love SD though. Not sure if everyone watches or not, but SD is the Simon Cowell here that won't let us forget that we could have avoided the mistake.
> 
> Maybe it's just harsh when it's the first reply to the "confession" post. Maybe that's why they never let Simon go first on the show. But give me an SD (or a Simon) every time.


You've been watching to much american idol were cutting you off.


----------



## sailingdog

*SmackDaddy/Blt2Ski-*

It takes 15-20 minutes to rig the reefing lines for most boats. * He's had SIX MONTHS to do it. He couldn't take 15-20 minutes out of the SIX MONTHS to do that?? 
* 


pgiann said:


> About 6 mos after I bought a Catalina 30 we came back from a daysail thru Angel's Gate = main entrance to LA Harbor. Storm warnings were up and winds started to stay over 20 knots with gusts to 29.


*He had advance warning of the weather going south. He could have dropped the main, knowing he couldn't reef it. He chose not to.*



> As we took the jib down using the furler line, the jib sheets got twisted around the furler. Sent my crew to unscramble it, but the wind kept pushing the stern around and tightening the knotted jib line. The Atomic had just enough power to keep us moving and darkness fell suddenly. 30 minute later we still were going in a circle, couldn't reef the main (no reef ties) and now the swells and wind made it very tricky to be on deck in the vicinity of the jib lines, which were whipping around like spagetti in unpredictable patterns. We finally called vessel assist, but got LA Harbor Patrol instead. They boarded and couldn't get jib free either and suggested I cut my new sail. Finally, an eternity later, one of the deputies who was persistent and had sailing experience got it free. We were at the main entrance to the harbor and a definite navigation hazard, not to mention a hazrd to ourselves with a vessel that was headed for the rocks several times.


He could have dropped anchor until he got the jib and main sail sorted out. Dropping anchor would have allowed him to lower the main sail in fairly safe conditions, as well as give him the time he needed to deal with the jib. Anchoring the boat is often a great way to get the boat back under control, especially if the boat is having problems with going where you want it to. There's also no reason he couldn't have ridden the storm out, instead of fighting the storm on an ill-prepared boat, if he had had the proper ground tackle to do so.



> My solution was to re-rig the jib, but I still don't know how the sheets got so tangled.


Motoring in circles without properly restraining the jib sheets will do that to you.



> Obviously we should have brought her more into the wind before trying to work the furler, but tjat doesn't seem a fully satisfactory answer to me. Any suggestions, as leaving the jib in place would have brought us into the slip at an uncontrollable speed, and taking down the main would have meant a loss of sterrability.


He could have been knocked down. He could have had someone knocked overboard. He could have caused problems for other boats trying to get into the harbor.

Last I checked, having just a bit of common sense, like reefing the main or dropping it completely when the weather starts to get nasty, is just good seamanship-something that obviously neither of you understand.

I'm not infallible, and never said I was... but I do at least take the time to make basic preparations for bad weather. Generally, if you prepare for the worst and hope for the best, Murphy doesn't come along and kick you in the backside...


----------



## CharlieCobra

Jody, having been on the foredeck in heavy weather both going into and offwind, I can tell you that I'd much rather be going offwind if I have to work forward. nothing worse than getting pounded by green water every 10 seconds AND having to deal with the increased apparent wind on top of what's already there. I understand centering the boat dead upwind to unload lateral stress on the furler and headsail(s) but in order to do this, you'll have to fire up the engine. If ya have crap in the water, which may be likely, you run the risk of fouling. Everyone has their preference but my experiences in several gales has shaped the way that I personally do things. your mileage may vary...


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## Bene505

sailingdog said:


> *SmackDaddy/Blt2Ski-*
> 
> It takes 15-20 minutes to rig the reefing lines for most boats. * He's had SIX MONTHS to do it. He couldn't take 15-20 minutes out of the SIX MONTHS to do that??
> ...*


*

See... that's why Simon gets the big bucks.*


----------



## CharlieCobra

sailingdog said:


> *SmackDaddy/Blt2Ski-*
> 
> He could have been knocked down. He could have had someone knocked overboard. He could have caused problems for other boats trying to get into the harbor.
> 
> Last I checked, having just a bit of common sense, like reefing the main or dropping it completely when the weather starts to get nasty, is just good seamanship-something that obviously neither of you understand.


When I first started sailing I didn't exercise what anyone might call good seamanship very often either. *I sailed into a Force 11 storm with a rookie and a dinghy sailor on an unproven boat's maiden voyage fer chrissakes! *  Not exactly what I'd call good seamanship... I learned one hell of a lot doing it though and the boat and crew survived to sail another day. I don't do things like that anymore though, not on purpose. It's it hits the fan though, I'm damned sure ready.

Edit: I will say this though. I did walk the crew through reefing and Staysail setup procedures before we stood out though. That turned out to be a very good thing because there was NO WAY I could've communicated how to set the Solent Stay and Staysail in that wind when it HAD to be done. So in hindsight, I suppose I did a couple of things right.


----------



## blt2ski

SD,

It took me 2 yrs, that is right, "2 yrs" to put a reef line in my current boat! Then another 2 before I got the double one in! 

Yes PG could have done some other things better. But just how "storm" warnings was he in? "True" storm warnings? ie 50-55knots plus? or a small craft/gale which is what it sounds like the winds were blowing. 

Can you admit to not having done something wrong? stupid? or equal? I have to admit, all the above! Done them all! No different than the 9 days ago when it was blowing mid 30's, and I screwed up, well purposely steered the boat with the wind off the back corner of my boat with the boom on the same side for a short lets get around the buoy! works in lighter winds, but a 4-5'wave, 30'ish knot winds. ooops! one broken boom from a crash gybe later. Fortunately, no one was hurt! 

Some boats locally that race, do not even HAVE reefs in them! Not sure how smart that is, but, some boats do not have them plain pure and simple. Now of course, you're going to come back with the "he has reefs" Who cares at this junction! He had issues, lets help him vs scolding him! In the meantime, if PG is really that dumb etc, Darwin will take care of him. But from the question he put out, sounds like he is not that dumb. inexperienced maybe, and we are all that way. 

now, should I tell you about having to get pulled out of lake washington by the harbor partrol as a 15 yr old sailing a 8' pram I had on a 20'ish knot day too?!?!?!?! Hopefully you have some dumb, wtf was I thinking days too! I think we all do! 

Marty


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## sailingdog

CharlieCobra said:


> Jody, having been on the foredeck in heavy weather both going into and offwind, I can tell you that I'd much rather be going offwind if I have to work forward. nothing worse than getting pounded by green water every 10 seconds AND having to deal with the increased apparent wind on top of what's already there. I understand centering the boat dead upwind to unload lateral stress on the furler and headsail(s) but in order to do this, you'll have to fire up the engine.


Not necessarily, if you dropped anchor, the boat would end up pointing dead upwind if the main sail was up at all... without any need for the engine to be running. Then you could furl the jib, and then drop the main in relatively ease... beats trying to have them flog you to death while on a moving boat.


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## CharlieCobra

That's cool if you're not in 400' of water like we were...


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## CharlieCobra

I hear ya Marty. The forecast that day was 15-20 building to 25, *NOT FREAKING 62!*


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## blt2ski

I also just remembered, took me 4 yrs to put jack lines on my boat, and buy a safety tether! Most of us, generally speaking, are probably sailing in less than 15-20 knots of wind, generally speaking, reasonably protected waters. Some of the safety items are not always needed, like jack line, reefs depending upon you view of them being a safety or needed item for what ever reason.....

By the way PG, welcome to the water rats nest! of BFS! As you can tell, there is more than one way to skin a cat, tell a story, help you with what ails you. Hopefully those of us with the how too, vs the scolding, are helping, even the scolding ones are probably help full is some way shape or form. Not sure that SD is paid like Simon is to be negative tho!

Charlie, 

where locally were you in less than 600' of water, much less only 400' of water?

Do you want a direct email for the fellow that is running the NW solo website? PM me.
marty


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## blt2ski

CharlieCobra said:


> I hear ya Marty. The forecast that day was 15-20 building to 25, *NOT FREAKING 62!*


Is this the day you took Oh Joy home? I was out that day too, not too bad off of edmonds, but still was moving pretty good with a 110 and reefed main that day! I recall hitting 7 plus down wind.

marty


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## mrwuffles

CharlieCobra said:


> That's cool if you're not in 400' of water like we were...


Now if you practiced good seamanship you would have 1000' of chain on board and at least 4 anchors.


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## sailingdog

According to the charts, that area is about 40' deep... anchoring would have been a pretty good option. If he had stopped before he got into the approach channel...there's plenty of areas he could have stopped at.










CharlieCobra said:


> That's cool if you're not in 400' of water like we were...


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## bubb2

15 feet deep? How do they get the commercial traffic in and out of the harbor? Does not make sense!


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## sailhog

bubb2 said:


> 15 feet deep? How do they get the commercial traffic in and out of the harbor? Does not make sense!


Soundings gotta be in fathoms on those charts.

How is that smokin' tranny, aka, Mike?


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## blt2ski

I was thinking fathoms too, but assuming SD went to the google/noaa online charts, at least my local area is in feet. then again, puget sound may be different than in the LA area, where fathoms would make more sense. I could not find the LA area scale etc to tell. Puget sound was listed as feet. I am not seeing a fathom vs feet listing on the google/noaa chart for the LA area.

marty


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## bubb2

Good to hear from you, Hawg. I am doing OK. thanks for asking. And how is every thing with you? 

by the way do you know what to use to put out a smokin' tranny!

A douche bag!


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## sailingdog

Bubb-

Sorry, my bad.. that's 15 fathoms... the other chart, when I zoomed in a bit further was marked in feet, but the one I have the screen shot of is in FATHOMS. Still, quite a few spots only 40 feet deep or so... which would be manageable to anchor in. And the shallow water habitat to the west of the channel just inside the break water is all 15-20' deep.


----------



## bubb2

Dog, I knew it was in fathoms when I posted. It is just my way of pointing out that everyone can make mistakes, The OP and you and me!


----------



## smackdaddy

Oh Bubb - you're gooooooood.

Dog - to help put this all in perspective...Bubb was very cool about your *WHACKED OUT FU!!!!!!!!* He didn't even feel the need to use bold type and all caps. That's my point dude.

And that, Twins, is the difference. Sure Dog was right. He was just jerky and sanctimonious about it. That's all I'm sayin'. pg was asking for advice - not a kick in the stones.


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## sailingdog

My paper charts clearly state what the measurements are in... the NOAA demo site doesn't always make that clear.  



bubb2 said:


> Dog, I knew it was in fathoms when I posted. It is just my way of pointing out that everyone can make mistakes, The OP and you and me!


----------



## smackdaddy

sailingdog said:


> *SmackDaddy/Blt2Ski-* is just good seamanship-something that obviously neither of you understand.


Bluto - I'm just sorry that I caused you to lose all your understanding of "good seamanship". You have GOT to be bummed.


----------



## chall03

Is it time for a group hug again??


----------



## smackdaddy

Hell no, Chall! Break out the Angostura and hop into the fray!


----------



## chall03

Unfortunately I've just gone and poured a Friday arfternoon Bourbon and Coke which tends to make me all mellow. 

If it is alright with you though I might just take a seat, pour another and watch the action unfold


----------



## bubb2

sailingdog said:


> My paper charts clearly state what the measurements are in... the NOAA demo site doesn't always make that clear.


Dog, You don't need the Chart Datum to tell you it is in fathoms. Just think about it. How would Toyota bring in a cargo ship full of Prius's to the port of LA in 15 feet of water. 

I also don't need a weather man or wind Interments to tell me when and from where the wind is blowing.


----------



## blt2ski

Smack,

It is nice to have someone tell me something I did not know, like I lost all my sailing sense!

Time for bed up here on the upper left coast!

Marty


----------



## CalebD

Hey mellow Chall,
I didn't know that Bourbon was popular 'Down Under'? Why not? Even Japanese Saki wine is available here but things do vary a bit.

Is there not one of us who has released a jib sheet too early or too late? Did you wait too long before the shoal or reef came up too soon to tack?

If you have been there then you know.

My boats are dying of old age along with me!


----------



## tdw

CharlieCobra said:


> I didn't think you were. Just thought ya missed how bad it was is all. The first and last time I grounded Oh Joy in the mud IN THE MIDDLE OF A MARKED CHANNEL!, I pushed and backed while spinning from left to right until I dug a trench deep enough to back off. There's times when a 50 HP, a full keel and skeg hung rudder come in handy.


Just wanted to make sure you weren't thinking I was making light of what to Jody.

I remember once in my old boat , running up onto a sand bar in drifting conditions. Didn't know i was even aground for a couple of minutes. T'was a touch embarassing having everyone around me watching as I jiggled myself off. Ah me, the silly things we do.


----------



## CharlieCobra

No doubt.


----------



## CharlieCobra

blt2ski said:


> Is this the day you took Oh Joy home? I was out that day too, not too bad off of edmonds, but still was moving pretty good with a 110 and reefed main that day! I recall hitting 7 plus down wind.
> 
> marty


It was great early on and by Edmunds. It got worse later, much much worse. It was windy enough for us to cover 82 NM in 10 hours, according to my GPS tracks.


----------



## smackdaddy

CalebD said:


> Is there not one of us who has released a jib sheet too early or too late? Did you wait too long before the shoal or reef came up too soon to tack?


Well, I can only think of one man in history that was ever THAT perfect.

And that's why I've placed, in 6' lettering, the following on my genoa:

WWSDD


----------



## Bene505

smackdaddy said:


> Well, I can only think of one man in history that was ever THAT perfect.
> 
> And that's why I've placed, in 6' lettering, the following on my genoa:
> 
> WWSDD


Very funny smack

WWSDD:
1. Short for "What would Snoop Dogg Do?"

2. A rhetorical question asked when faced with a chance to have mass quantities of fun, or booze... which are basically the same thing. 
Example:
. . . Question: "Wanna go and get %&$*faced?" 
. . . Reply:"What would Snoop Dogg Do?"

EDIT: Corrected by smack lower in this thread to read : What Would SailingDog Do?


----------



## tonybinTX

hey Smack - it's blowin' stink today and tomorrow. You gonna be out? 

We're going out this afternoon for a practice session and to take the boat down to the club for tomorrow's long distance regatta. 30kts - time to get the kite out...maybe we'll get that 36.7 up on plane!


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## smackdaddy

Bene - although I try hard to model my actual life after Snoop's (what a fine young man) - I was actually thinking of SailingDog on the sailing. He's obviously the messiah for all things sail (maybe not so much for the hip-hop). 

That said, I have found that when it's blowing 40 with 18' waves - and you're towing warps and under bare poles - havin' 3 honey-s on the foredeck doing a major booty-shake helps keep the bow down so you can enjoy your tiparillo and Courvasier at the helm. Snoop sailin' baby.

Tony - you still in Austin? I'm planning on going out on Sunday. I've got soccer games all day tomorrow. What's the course for tomorrow? A kite in 30? I'm tellin' ya - them's stones man! BTW - right now at the lake it's blowing 3 mph with gusts of 11 - at least after this last hail storm just finished passing through! I'll check the forecast for Sunday.

And DUDE - TAKE SOME PICS TOMORROW!!!!


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## tonybinTX

Yeah. I'm still in ATX. Course is normally from the club down to Lakeway, but the forecast is looking like wind in the 20's so they may extend it a bit.

Stones? It's not MY boat.  I'll pack the "helmet cam" and share the fun.

We're taking some friends out Sunday on our boat. Will be leaving the dock around noon. Maybe we'll see you out there.

this conversation has me thinking about this video - I'm on a boat


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## blt2ski

Here is what I usually get,

PZZ134-272230-
ADMIRALTY INLET-
901 AM PDT FRI MAR 27 2009

...GALE WATCH IN EFFECT FROM SATURDAY MORNING THROUGH LATE
SATURDAY NIGHT...

.TODAY...S WIND 10 TO 15 KT...BECOMING NW 10 TO 20 KT THIS
AFTERNOON. WIND WAVES 1 TO 3 FT. CHANCE OF RAIN.
.TONIGHT...NW WIND 10 TO 20 KT EASING TO 10 TO 15 KT AFTER
MIDNIGHT...THEN BECOMING SE LATE. WIND WAVES 1 TO 3 FT. RAIN
LIKELY AFTER MIDNIGHT.
.SAT...S WIND 10 TO 15 KT BECOMING NW 25 TO 35 KT IN THE
AFTERNOON. WIND WAVES 1 OR 2 FT BUILDING TO 4 TO 6 FT. RAIN.
.SAT NIGHT...NW WIND 25 TO 35 KT DIMINISHING TO 15 TO 25 KT AFTER 
MIDNIGHT. WIND WAVES 4 TO 6 FT SUBSIDING TO 2 TO 4 FT. 
.SUN...NW WIND 15 TO 25 KT. WIND WAVES 2 TO 4 FT. 
.MON THROUGH TUE...S WIND 10 TO 20 KT. WIND WAVES 1 TO 3 FT.

But where I will be sailing tomorrow in the southern sound.....

PZZ135-272230-
PUGET SOUND AND HOOD CANAL-
901 AM PDT FRI MAR 27 2009

.TODAY...S WIND 10 TO 20 KT. WIND WAVES 1 TO 3 FT. CHANCE OF
RAIN.
.TONIGHT...SW WIND 10 TO 15 KT...EXCEPT NW WIND NORTH PART THIS
EVENING. WIND BECOMING SE 10 TO KT THROUGHOUT AFTER MIDNIGHT.
WIND WAVES 1 OR 2 FT. CHANCE OF RAIN.
.SAT...S WIND 10 TO 20 KT. WIND WAVES 1 TO 3 FT. RAIN.
.SAT NIGHT...NW WIND 10 TO 20 KT. WIND WAVES 1 TO 3 FT.
.SUN...SW WIND 10 TO 15 KT. WIND WAVES 1 OR 2 FT. 
.MON THROUGH TUE...S WIND 10 TO 20 KT. WIND WAVES 1 TO 3 FT.

Should be fun. Will be sailing on a boat a bit longer than mine
WITH a boom! Life goes on!

Marty


----------



## djodenda

Marty:

Wanna borrow my boom?

Seriously.

My boom is your boom.

I'll bet Jody would lend the one from his C27 as well.

David


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## blt2ski

David,

I looked at Jody's yesterday, with a lot of work, I could have gotten it to work possibly, Along with the pin on his was about half the size of the one for my boat. i could look and see. There is a C30 on my dock. Altho a ride on xcentric could be fun. 

Or I'll go to a regatta out of meydenbauer on a Islander 40. I think kids will probably go out there.

Either way, will be out sailing. Winds are looking really goofy for tomorrow. I've seen 25-35 around here, down to 10-20........The only constant is RAIN!

Marty


----------



## painkiller

smackdaddy said:


> That said, I have found that when it's blowing 40 with 18' waves - and you're towing warps and under bare poles - havin' 3 honey-s on the foredeck doing a major booty-shake helps keep the bow down so you can enjoy your tiparillo and Courvasier at the helm. Snoop sailin' baby.


Don't I know it. You may need 4 if you get some of them skinny-booty girls.


----------



## djodenda

Sailing on Xcentric should be fun in that wind. I'm sure they will appreciate having you aboard.

Good luck!

David


----------



## Bene505

smackdaddy said:


> ... That said, I have found that when it's blowing 40 with 18' waves - and you're towing warps and under bare poles - havin' 3 honey-s on the foredeck doing a major booty-shake helps keep the bow down so you can enjoy your tiparillo and Courvasier at the helm. Snoop sailin' baby...


Pictures, Smack. We'll need pictures -- video would be better.


----------



## smackdaddy

Bene - baby, you know I would. But CD would have a true conniption. We must keep this thread suitable for the young-uns.

However, since most young people know nothing about this new-fangled web thingy called "YouTube" - go there and enter the following in the search to research the technique:

"step brothers rap video"

From that point - yer on yer own.


----------



## smackdaddy

Yo Tony - you nailed it dude. Starting to get readings of 30 knot gusts. Woo-hoo! Gonna be a nice weekend!


----------



## CharlieCobra

Ya been practicing with your traveler techniques? Yer gonna need 'em...


----------



## KeelHaulin

OK here is my BFS contribution; it's not a "story" it's the truth as I still recall it like it was yesterday. About 3 years ago now I was buying my boat, a C&C designed Newport 41. The sea trial got moved up a few days and an acquaintance that owned one who had agreed to go could not make it out with us. Needless to say the sea trial was very short because the broker knew little to nothing about sailing; the surveyor was inattentive (he had agreed to crew) and my GF who had never been on a sailboat was scared by the heeling (we never heeled more than 15-20 degrees). But even though the sea trial was crappy I could tell that the boat sailed nicely and would be much better when "properly" sailed. Now let's get to the BFS story; this was the prelude.

So I chatted with the owner/acquaintance who was going to go on the sea-trial with us. He said that he would be taking another N-41 owner from Louisiana out in a couple of days and we were welcome to go out with them. The forecasts looked good but as the day approached the wind forecasts were building into SCA/Gale for the day we were going. I called to ask if they were going to re-consider and he said no; but be prepared for some aggressive sailing and if my GF was going to be afraid that she should stay ashore. I asked her a second time if she would want to stay in and she insisted that she wanted to go and she would be OK.

So the day arrives and we head out in the early afternoon; set the 1'st reef in as we are leaving the harbor and head up the Richmond channel to SF Bay. As we are headed up the harbor channel the wind is already 20-25kts and the boat is heeled ~25 degrees. My GF seems fine since everyone else is un-concerned she figures everything is OK. I climbed up to to take a seat on the rail and check out the view. As we exit the breakwater the wind began building further so I come back down into the cockpit to find some shelter behind the dodger and out of the cold wind. So now the boat is really taking a heel; we are all bracing ourselves by stepping on the starboard cockpit wall; the starboard rail is fully submerged and I'm thinking WOW this boat is really taking on some heavy wind nicely. I'd say the wind was up around 30kts as we tacked into Raccoon Strait. 

I figured that we would be sailing in about the same wind conditions for the rest of our sail; but boy was I mistaken! As we exited Raccoon Strait the wind really piped up! We were out between Angel Island and Alcatraz and the wind must have been up between 35-45kts. The boat was heeled so far over that we were literally standing on the side wall of the cockpit; I'd say we were 60 degrees, maybe more. The owner from Louisiana was at the helm and he was screaming WOO-HOO the entire time because they never get that kind of wind in clear conditions. I was feeling uncomfortable but not scared yet; and I was also glad to see what kind of conditions a boat like the one I was about to buy could "handle". My GF was completely oblivious to the "fear factor" since nobody seemed the least bit worried; including the owner. Did I forget to mention that the portlights on the doghouse were submerged?

So we complete 2 tacks across "The Slot" then head downwind. As we sailed downwind the boat was hitting 8 kts; lightly surfing on the 4' rolling waves as we sail down the SF Cityfront. As we headed around the backside of Yerba Buena Island the wind died. We actually had to motor for a bit to get around it and back into the wind. 

So as we are sailing behind Treasure Island the owner offers me the helm and I take the boat from TI back to Richmond. Since the wind had dropped I figured that it would be an easier lighter sail back up to the marina; NOT!! As soon as we were out of the shelter of TI the wind from The Gate was back up into the 30-35kt range and off we went on a screaming (I mean SCREAMING) reach back across the central bay. The wind and chop was so heavy I was steering frantically to keep the boat going in a straight line as we'd take a gust and get rounded down or go into a trough of the 4-6' chop and start rounding up. The boat sliced through that chop like it was hot butta. We hit 9.5 kts; remember the boat has a reefed main and we were flying a 100% jib. We were getting green water shots across the bow and spray back into the cockpit. At the helm I was catching the spray now and then; remember I'm about 40' from where the waves are hitting. At one point we were heeling over about 30deg on this beam reach; so a slight spill of the main and the boat was up on her feet again and the building stiffness of the helm eased.

After that sail I knew I had made the right choice for my boat and it still remains as the heaviest wind conditions/BFS I have been out in. We've had other heavy air days but have never sailed as aggressively as we did that day on Quincy's boat. It was a BFS that I'll never forget.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Days like that are etched forever... I love 'em!


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## blt2ski

KH,

have to agree with charlie. Days like that are etched for whatever reason in our minds. You got one of those days where everyone was stoked, having fun, nothing major happened wrong! Just plain fun! Kinda like 2 saturdays ago for me, well, at least until the oops, and the boom boom accident. 

Oh well, no one complained about the motor into 3-5' waves home, we were still smiling remembering the 11+ knot surf down a wave in my 30'r. A sail all four of us will remember. This is what BFS is about! Taking the bad days as PG mentioned yesterday, asking how to fix the issues, and having a good day later, that all will remember, and push the bad days to the black matter of our brain!

Thanks for writing.

marty


----------



## smackdaddy

Keel - AWESOME BFS, dude! Now, are most people like me, where they get butterflies when reading stuff like this?? I like the illustration of how cool heads are infectious - despite what are pretty stiff conditions. And a skipper that decides SCA/Gale conditions are just fine...for a SEA TRIAL!!! Yeah, baby! Great story.

Tony - how was Saturday? Looks like it got up to 35 knots out there. We were out on Sunday (BTW - below is a pic of our main #2079 so either you can find us on a weekend - or avoid us like the plague). Winds were just about PERFECT as far as I'm concerned - blowing a steady 15-20 with frequent 25 gusts. We had the full main and 170 genny up and had a freakin' blast!

Was there another regatta on Sunday? There were tons of boats in the channel at around 2. I was noticing a few tris flying spins and they were just screamin'! And there were several other monos that were heeled way the hell over - almost to a broach. I couldn't tell what kind of boats they were, but I was surprised they were pushed so far over. With all the sail we had up - we were staying pretty solid. Must be Charlie's instruction paying off.

We also practiced MOB and heaving to using Giu's technique. It's rock solid. I feel pretty confident now about that. Now I just need to get the reefing thing squared away.


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## tonybinTX

Smack - The long distance regatta was Saturday. Sunday was a club spring series race and that was the reason for all the boats. We were out both days.

Saturday we raced on a beneteau 36.7 in spin A fleet, but never launched the chute. Saw one gust top 40kts and the boat owner didn't have a heavy air chute. Excitement for the day - We got pinned over at one point while trying to duck a melges 24. The main sheet got stuck and we couldn't depower - we were heading for a t-bone at 8 kts but were able to dump the main just before hitting them. They had to alter course so we did our turn and kept going. The crew on the melges had a rough day. Later in the race, we saw them get rounded up and a crew member went in the water. They pulled him back in and then a few miles later their chute was ripped to shreds. 

The J80's all launched their kites and took the race - they got up on plane and just walked away. 

Sunday we took another couple out for a birthday cruise. We went up Sandy Creek to Cafe Blue for a late lunch, then back to the marina. Forecast winds were about 10-20, but we saw a few gusts top 30. Our tender Hunter 31 got quite the workout! Had to put in a reef on the main and the 135 to keep from rounding up...I know -- against the BFS code, but we were hitting hull speed even with the reefs!


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## sailingdog

Looks like you need to tighten up on the main halyard... a lot of wrinkles in that main's luff.


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## smackdaddy

sailingdog said:


> Looks like you need to tighten up on the main halyard... a lot of wrinkles in that main's luff.


Dude - chill. That main is older than you are - and we've busted a couple of cars sailing like mad men. However, just for you, I'll have my wife iron it this week with extra starch - then reshoot. Where does the crease go again in a main for a C27?

Jeez - Mr. Critical.


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## smackdaddy

tonybinTX said:


> Smack - The long distance regatta was Saturday. Sunday was a club spring series race and that was the reason for all the boats. We were out both days.
> 
> Saturday we raced on a beneteau 36.7 in spin A fleet, but never launched the chute. Saw one gust top 40kts and the boat owner didn't have a heavy air chute. Excitement for the day - We got pinned over at one point while trying to duck a melges 24. The main sheet got stuck and we couldn't depower - we were heading for a t-bone at 8 kts but were able to dump the main just before hitting them. They had to alter course so we did our turn and kept going. The crew on the melges had a rough day. Later in the race, we saw them get rounded up and a crew member went in the water. They pulled him back in and then a few miles later their chute was ripped to shreds.
> 
> The J80's all launched their kites and took the race - they got up on plane and just walked away.
> 
> Sunday we took another couple out for a birthday cruise. We went up Sandy Creek to Cafe Blue for a late lunch, then back to the marina. Forecast winds were about 10-20, but we saw a few gusts top 30. Our tender Hunter 31 got quite the workout! Had to put in a reef on the main and the 135 to keep from rounding up...I know -- against the BFS code, but we were hitting hull speed even with the reefs!


Sounds sweet, Tony! Did you get any pics?

BTW - for clarification - reefing, in and of itself, is definitely not against the BFS Code of Conduct, bro! Reefing in 10 knots or deciding it's too windy at 20 - that's the sin. Reefing to KEEP SAILING IN 30+ - THAT'S BFS!

So you guys pinned a Bene???? Whoa! If I'm gonna t-bone an M-24, I definitely like that extra 12 feet.

We were hitting 7-8 knots SOG as well on Sunday. Ahh - nothing better than wimpy lake sailing!


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## sailingdog

Smack—

I'm not being critical... I'm pointing out that when you're sailing in heavier winds, you need to have the main halyard tensioned a bit better than that. Regardless of the age of the sail, you've got insufficient halyard tension on it...and you're going to have a much fuller sail, and heel far more than you would if the halyard was properly tensioned. If you're too immature to take this as the good advice it was intended, that's just too damn bad. Grow up, would you.


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## tonybinTX

Good to know I didn't violate any rules. 

The helmet cam was operational. Still going through the vid - will post any goodies later today.


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## smackdaddy

Heh-heh. Can't wait.


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## CBinRI

KeelHaulin said:


> OK here is my BFS contribution; it's not a "story" it's the truth as I still recall it like it was yesterday. About 3 years ago now I was buying my boat, a C&C designed Newport 41. The sea trial got moved up a few days and an acquaintance that owned one who had agreed to go could not make it out with us. Needless to say the sea trial was very short because the broker knew little to nothing about sailing; the surveyor was inattentive (he had agreed to crew) and my GF who had never been on a sailboat was scared by the heeling (we never heeled more than 15-20 degrees). But even though the sea trial was crappy I could tell that the boat sailed nicely and would be much better when "properly" sailed. Now let's get to the BFS story; this was the prelude.
> 
> So I chatted with the owner/acquaintance who was going to go on the sea-trial with us. He said that he would be taking another N-41 owner from Louisiana out in a couple of days and we were welcome to go out with them. The forecasts looked good but as the day approached the wind forecasts were building into SCA/Gale for the day we were going. I called to ask if they were going to re-consider and he said no; but be prepared for some aggressive sailing and if my GF was going to be afraid that she should stay ashore. I asked her a second time if she would want to stay in and she insisted that she wanted to go and she would be OK.
> 
> So the day arrives and we head out in the early afternoon; set the 1'st reef in as we are leaving the harbor and head up the Richmond channel to SF Bay. As we are headed up the harbor channel the wind is already 20-25kts and the boat is heeled ~25 degrees. My GF seems fine since everyone else is un-concerned she figures everything is OK. I climbed up to to take a seat on the rail and check out the view. As we exit the breakwater the wind began building further so I come back down into the cockpit to find some shelter behind the dodger and out of the cold wind. So now the boat is really taking a heel; we are all bracing ourselves by stepping on the starboard cockpit wall; the starboard rail is fully submerged and I'm thinking WOW this boat is really taking on some heavy wind nicely. I'd say the wind was up around 30kts as we tacked into Raccoon Strait.
> 
> I figured that we would be sailing in about the same wind conditions for the rest of our sail; but boy was I mistaken! As we exited Raccoon Strait the wind really piped up! We were out between Angel Island and Alcatraz and the wind must have been up between 35-45kts. The boat was heeled so far over that we were literally standing on the side wall of the cockpit; I'd say we were 60 degrees, maybe more. The owner from Louisiana was at the helm and he was screaming WOO-HOO the entire time because they never get that kind of wind in clear conditions. I was feeling uncomfortable but not scared yet; and I was also glad to see what kind of conditions a boat like the one I was about to buy could "handle". My GF was completely oblivious to the "fear factor" since nobody seemed the least bit worried; including the owner. Did I forget to mention that the portlights on the doghouse were submerged?
> 
> So we complete 2 tacks across "The Slot" then head downwind. As we sailed downwind the boat was hitting 8 kts; lightly surfing on the 4' rolling waves as we sail down the SF Cityfront. As we headed around the backside of Yerba Buena Island the wind died. We actually had to motor for a bit to get around it and back into the wind.
> 
> So as we are sailing behind Treasure Island the owner offers me the helm and I take the boat from TI back to Richmond. Since the wind had dropped I figured that it would be an easier lighter sail back up to the marina; NOT!! As soon as we were out of the shelter of TI the wind from The Gate was back up into the 30-35kt range and off we went on a screaming (I mean SCREAMING) reach back across the central bay. The wind and chop was so heavy I was steering frantically to keep the boat going in a straight line as we'd take a gust and get rounded down or go into a trough of the 4-6' chop and start rounding up. The boat sliced through that chop like it was hot butta. We hit 9.5 kts; remember the boat has a reefed main and we were flying a 100% jib. We were getting green water shots across the bow and spray back into the cockpit. At the helm I was catching the spray now and then; remember I'm about 40' from where the waves are hitting. At one point we were heeling over about 30deg on this beam reach; so a slight spill of the main and the boat was up on her feet again and the building stiffness of the helm eased.
> 
> After that sail I knew I had made the right choice for my boat and it still remains as the heaviest wind conditions/BFS I have been out in. We've had other heavy air days but have never sailed as aggressively as we did that day on Quincy's boat. It was a BFS that I'll never forget.


Sounds like great fun. And the GF may be a keeper.


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## MorganPaul

sailingdog said:


> Looks like you need to tighten up on the main halyard... a lot of wrinkles in that main's luff.


I agree. Who hauled up the main? Churchlady?


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## smackdaddy

MorganPaul said:


> I agree. Who hauled up the main? Churchlady?


Verrry funny you chucklehead!

Siiiiiigggggghhhhhh. Okay - did I post the pic saying "Hey everyone, look how nice my main is?". No. I posted it for the freakin' number. Did I perhaps not notice the pesky wrinkles myself?

Just ask Charlie - if you look at my boat for more than 5 minutes, you'll notice a crapload of stuff that's whacked. Old main, missing sail cars, old sheets, and stuff I don't even know the names of that need to be fixed. I'm workin' on it.

The halyard WAS cranked down. That's the scary part! It's an old baggy main with some missing cars. But is that going to keep me off the water until I have the time to fix it - just so you guys will compliment me on my pretty sail? I don't think so.

At least Jody actually gave me some good advice via PM. I asked him to post it here to show you boneheads how it should be done.

So scoff on you lousy bastages! And cower in the shadow of my trashy sailing prowess!


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## sailingdog

That's probably the problem, churchlady wasn't available and SmackDaddy did it himself. 


MorganPaul said:


> I agree. Who hauled up the main? Churchlady?


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## sailingdog

If you're going to go sailing in BFS conditions, you really need to flatten the main a bit better-especially, if you're missing cars on it. 

I am in awe of your trashiness... 


smackdaddy said:


> Verrry funny you chucklehead!
> 
> Siiiiiigggggghhhhhh. Okay - did I post the pic saying "Hey everyone, look how nice my main is?". No. I posted it for the freakin' number. Did I perhaps not notice the pesky wrinkles myself?
> 
> Just ask Charlie - if you look at my boat for more than 5 minutes, you'll notice a crapload of stuff that's whacked. Old main, missing sail cars, old sheets, and stuff I don't even know the names of that need to be fixed. I'm workin' on it.
> 
> The halyard WAS cranked down. That's the scary part! It's an old baggy main with some missing cars. But is that going to keep me off the water until I have the time to fix it - just so you guys will compliment me on my pretty sail? I don't think so.
> 
> At least Jody actually gave me some good advice via PM. I asked him to post it here to show you boneheads how it should be done.
> 
> So scoff on you lousy bastages! And cower in the shadow of my trashy sailing prowess!


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## smackdaddy

sailingdog said:


> I am in awe of your trashiness...


That's more like it pal.

BTW - how about throwin' down one of your own BFSs, Dog? Whatcha got?


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## artbyjody

Dog brings up a valid point. What I saw in the picture is two things. The crinkles are right where your battens are - a sign that they may be a tad too tight. If when sailing and full halyard tensioned (5+ knots of wind or so) if you still see those crinkles on the main at the luff where the battens are.... loosen the battens a hair. another way to determine is take a look at the batten pockets on the leech. Are they showing strain, deterioration, popping threads etc...

From where the batten attaches to the car / slide - the batten assembly to where the batten slides through the sail - you should be able to slide a finger through it with just minimal resistance. 

Also not that another adjustment to make is with the cunningham. This should always be adjusted when you reef or shake out a reef and especially on tired old mains. It'll straighten out the leech a tad. Remember that the load points in heavier winds is the upper 1/3 of the main. That is where you want to spill the main (and done so by the twist of the sail). 

Just my observations on the pic you posted...

Additionally, consider just taking the sail to your local sail loft and have it - "recut". If money is tight and you can't afford new sails then this is a very cheap alternative to even a used sail purchase. I am willing to bet that if you fix the binding issues with the cars - you'll get much more enjoyment out of sailing and see better - the cause and effects of things you do for sail trim (even on that little lake of yours!).


Good luck with the ironing and extra starch


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## Bene505

Smack, you just need some sailagra. That ought to take the wrinkles out of your sail. Of course, if they stay out for longer than 4 hours, you'll need to call your doctor.

When are you coming east for some salt water BFS? I think you should do the world tour. Kind of like Endless Summer with a BFS theme. (Now there's an idea!) Come before the end of June and you can stay on board. Come for Memorial day and help move our Bene about 100 miles to our summer fun spot.


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## CharlieCobra

Yeah Smack, Dog is right. That main is REAL ugly... I don't remember if you have a Cunningham adjustment on your boat but if ya do, it will help. Re-cutting the main ain't a bad idea either. The last thing ya want is a baggy main in heavy stuff. Is that the admiral at the helm? I didn't get to meet her.


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## GeorgeB

Smack, you know that Sailing Dog is right – you need way more halyard tension. In the photo, it is probably a little ‘soft’ for a light air day (0 – 5 kts). On heavy air days (20+ kts) you want to see vertical wrinkles. Medium days ease it so slightly softer than vertical wrinkles (the sail slugs pointed “upwards”). And slugs pointed “downwards” for when winds are less than ten. A soft halyard will bag out the main and you will heel rather than converting gusts into speed. Yes, that sail looks a little long in the tooth, but on the luff end, your problem is probably an equally aged halyard that is all stretched out. If you’re keeping the boat, I’d replace the halyards. You can help yourself a little by putting on full Cunningham which will pull the wrinkles out of the lower portion of the sail. Mains go bad from the leech forward. At full hoist (and proper halyard tension) is your boom horizontal? If it is below horizontal, you are stretched, and by the look of the style of the class emblem, this must be an original sail. Not worth re-cutting. But the good news is there are some good deals out there on sails. Take advantage of them, my friend. 

P.S. You don't have "cars" on your main. Those are slugs and they cost about two bucks apiece at West. Buy a bunch and a large needle, waxed whipping twine, and some spectra webbing. Time to practice your marlinspike skills. Out here where the wind blows, I expect to break a couple each season. I even have some "pre stitched so I can make the repair faster. You need full length battens before you can buy batten cars.

Now, if one of you fine gents can tell me how I can get a close-up view of a chart of Pt. Bonita in JPEG format, I will tell you of a little jaunt I took on Saturday called "Double Handed Farallones Race". This one is a little complicated and I need to make a diagram. You don't always need a lot of wind to have a BFS. Sometimes all it takes is a light breeze, wicked current, about 30 boats, rocks, and a lee shore.


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## sailingdog

You mean a screen cap like this from the NOAA demo site??










Piece of cake on a Mac, which has screen capture built into the OS...  On a Windows-based system, it's a bit more work.


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## sailingdog

Hey SmackDaddy— 

It kind of looks like you're out-voted... ArtbyJody, GeorgeB, CharlieCobra, and Bene505 seem to be agreeing with me.  Have Churchlady snug up the halyard for ya when you're out in BFS conditions next, would ya...


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## blt2ski

Glad those others saw the loose halyard, I was going to mention something this morning on my run thru, but did not due to lack of time.

I'd agree with George more than any one, ie blown out main, stretched halyard and the need for a cunningham. Jody has a main that may work smack!

Glad you had a good sail none the less. About half the boats in saturdays race did not make the 9 hr time limit. Started off with 15-18 winds out of SW, then slowly died, then roared in with 15-25 out of the north! Fought the current going south, then fought it again going north! The boat I was on finished third, 2nd for the 3 race series, so they were happy. Jody got me by 1 for the series, not sure where for the fleet. not real good considering a DNF and DNC. Altho the DNC still was a tied 2nd place finish, as no one finished in my boats group saturday.

Marty


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## CharlieCobra

Ya know, if Smack's Cunningham is loose or all the way up, he could be topping out the main and still not getting it taunt. Check the boom position at the gooseneck Smack.


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## smackdaddy

Holy Cow - what a beatdown! Oh the humanity!!

Dearest Dog, et. al. - in deep appreciation of your collectively merciless heckling, I went out to the boat TONIGHT and created a masterpiece...










Yes - replaced the cars-cum-stubs (thanks George), cranked the HELL out of the halyard, actually rigged the cunningham (after I finally figured out what the hell it was), and hoisted the magnificence. Stow that weeping, Dog, please.

Okay, it's still an old, baggy main - but hey throw me a bone here.

See the kind of motivation a Sailnet shamefest can give a dude? Thanks for the love fellas!


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## sailingdog

Much better.... Hey everybody... see Smackdaddy is trainable... if you use a damn cattleprod...


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## smackdaddy

Okay - don't get get to smug there, Multimutt. "Trainable"? I don't think so. I simply saw some modicum of value in a few of the comments.


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## artbyjody

smackdaddy said:


> Okay, it's still an old, baggy main - but hey throw me a bone here.
> 
> See the kind of motivation a Sailnet shamefest can give a dude? Thanks for the love fellas!


And it even looks like you were not kidding about ironing with some extra starch :laugher Good on ya..


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## Bene505

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - don't get get to smug there, Multimutt. "Trainable"? I don't think so. I simply saw some modicum of value in a few of the comments.


"Multimutt" LMAO

Glad you got it up, smack.

LMAO


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## bubb2

Smack, don't let them talk to you like that about your baggy main sail. Tell them, you just let off on the halyard to take in a reef because the wind just topped 40+, the reason for the wrinkles.


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## CalebD

Aww, and I was looking forward to the burn marks from the hot iron on his sails! 
That looks much better SmackTabby.
When are you coming up north and east?
We gots boats that are going into the water as your area heats up like hell down there...


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## chall03

Nice Smacky,

The Smacktanic is looking very pretty indeed. The class award for 'most improved' should be pinned proudly on your chest. You now have a chance if the wind goes over 7 1/2 knots 

That white sheet thing isn't decorative though, putting the main up in the pen is lovely and all but not too many folk have had a decent BFS attached to the dock. CD excepted of course.


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## smackdaddy

Hey Bubb - I like that. What he said you mooks!

Bene/Caleb - We're going to try to do a family thing up to the city sometime this summer. I'll let you know when we get a timeframe nailed down and see if it works for you guys. I'd love to sail with you Easties. I'm also trying to block out some time to get out to the SF area. I understand George needs some BFS "consultation".

Bluto - I know I need a new sail. But I've pretty much decided to just keep this boat bare bones as a practice/joyride boat for the lake and put my money into a proper boat to keep on the coast. This way I can bang the _Smacktanic_ around while I'm learning the basics and not worry about it. Then at some point, I might put some cash into it and race it for fun. Just not now.

Charlie/George - I honestly don't quite understand the cunningham. After I rigged it last night it made perfect sense for pulling any remaining sag out of the luff (And Charlie you were right, I had no cunningham at all in the previous shot). But, I don't really understand beyond that what you're really controlling in the sail.

Between the traveler, vang/jack, cunningham, outhaul, batten tightness, halyard tightness, topping lift, etc. there are so many sail controls that it's kind of overwhelming for a newb like me. Obviously these all combine to give you control over virtually any sail nuance, and I understand their basics, but I don't have a clue what all those nuances are, how to recognize them, and which of these to tweak for the specific issue. Charlie gave me a great traveler lesson when he was here and that helped a great deal. But I still have a lot to learn about all this other stuff.

Oh, and one other thing...as I mentioned before, we really weren't getting that much heel. I saw several boats blowing their rudders they heeled over so far that day, but we were staying very solid - even on the same point of sail. Is a Catalina really that stiff? Or am I just an awesome skipper?

Chall - it was fun getting some heel in the slip.


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## smackdaddy

Hey George - you did the Farallones? Did you see the story about the J80 losing their keel and chucking the sailors into the drink? Front page at SA. Scary stuff, man.

I look forward to your story. Sounds like it was a pretty crazy day.


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## CharlieCobra

Nicely done Smack. Ya oughta go over to (forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com) and get Don Guillette's "Sail Trim" with laminated chart. He discusses every single adjustment on sails and their relation. It was the very first book I bought and the one I learned the most from. Very much worth the $35 ya pay for it. It will have ya trimming and sailing like a pro in no time.


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## mrwuffles

smackdaddy said:


> Hey Bubb - I like that. What he said you mooks!
> 
> Bene/Caleb - We're going to try to do a family thing up to the city sometime this summer. I'll let you know when we get a timeframe nailed down and see if it works for you guys. I'd love to sail with you Easties. I'm also trying to block out some time to get out to the SF area. I understand George needs some BFS "consultation".


Nice you will not be let down hopefully I'm here for that time frame!


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## bubb2

Smack, if you are coming to the city you better let me know or I will get pissie with you!


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## Bene505

OK Smack, I'm sailing to Nantucket in mid July. Other than that, almost every weekend is good. The boat will be way out in Montauk, a long train ride from the city, but the winds are usually a bit stronger out there and we can get some ocean time.


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## GeorgeB

Smack, DHF Race - So much to tell, and in light of what happened to Heatwave,so much to think about. If Freya could have kept to her target boat speed on Saturday, at that particular point in time, we would have been in the same general vicinity. I shudder to think what we would have done if that happened to us. I've been in and out of the Ocean Racing and Safety Committees these past few days (both chaired by Mrs. B), doing process improvements that (hopefully) will improve Freya's chances if we are ever caught in a similar situation.

A little back ground. The Farallones are three rock piles about 26 miles west of the Golden Gate and sit on the edge of the continental shelf. Out there, the water is a beautiful cobalt blue, quite unlike the usual blue-grey-green color closer to California. South Farallone is by far the largest and inhabited only by a few scientists that enter/leave the island via a crane to the water. It is a major sea lion rookery and has the largest concentration of Great Whites in North America. The unique combination of currents, sea bottom and wind conditions make the Gulf of the Farallones one of the most challenging sailing venues anywhere. I think it was Kimball Livingston who coined the phrase "If you can sail here, you can sail anywhere in any condition" I think that the vast majority of SF Bay sailors are content to sail their entire careers inside the bay and never sailing out to see the rockpiles.








<O
Short Synopsis of Saturday's DHF<O
The 12 hour forecast for the Gulf of the Farallones on Saturday was winds 8 to 10kts in the morning, and building to the twenties in the afternoon, then building to the thirties after dark. The swells were to be 10 feet at 10 seconds during the day and building after dark. What we got was 10kts wind at the start, dying to under 5 about two hours later. And back up to 10kts at three (when we packed it in). Only a few boats made it out to the islands where they met the 30-40kt winds around sunset. Heatwave was on her way back in when she lost her keel. She was in the vicinity of Red "6" and "8" buoys marking the southern edge of the shipping channel on Sailing Dog's chart. This area is known as the South Shoal. They were running under reefed main and jib and were (probably) running on waves to their port quarter. Both Sailing Anarchy and latitude have excellent write-ups.

I am very digitally challenged, and could not use the file Sailing Dog posted. Can someone make a "super close-up" JPEG of just Pt Bonita and the wash rocks and water around it and post it? I'll then annotate in Power point to show you where 90% of us racers had to drop out.<O

Latitude 38 - The West's Premier Sailing & Marine Magazine


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## chall03

Now Smack, I'm feeling left out  , so if can get the Smacktanic to Sydney for a little visit, I will definitely buy you a drink


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## blt2ski

Local rags article on the Possession point race I lost my boom in, jody grounded in....lots o carnage!

48NApril09

anyway, hope that link works!

shista as I believe it is in german! Link works,, but gets you to the cover, go to pg 54 for the blakely rock race the week before, fun time their too, and 58 for the Possession Point race!


----------



## artbyjody

blt2ski said:


> Local rags article on the Possession point race I lost my boom in, jody grounded in....lots o carnage!
> 
> 48NApril09
> 
> anyway, hope that link works!
> 
> shista as I believe it is in german! Link works,, but gets you to the cover, go to pg 54 for the blakely rock race the week before, fun time their too, and 58 for the Possession Point race!


Just when I was trying to forget the entire month of March  Works fine in IE8 but had no luck with FF3. Nice write-up - the author (Wendy Hinman) should be commended for a complete and detailed job on reporting (at least they got what happened to us correct)...Actually very thorough - amazing the amount of injuries, mishaps etc ..and occasional boom breaking  Just think Marty - we made the same page!....


----------



## blt2ski

Yeah we did make the same page, and they spelled Amoretto wrong! So I must not have really broke my boom, musta been a fignuten of my imagination. Turkeys, it's spelled with an O, not an A ie amaretto is WRONG!!!!!


----------



## smackdaddy

Nice write up guys! Man it looks like it was freakin' NASTY out there.


----------



## CharlieCobra

It gets that way often around here...


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey Charlie, gusts of 45 knots today at the lake! And building!

(I think I'll pass on this one. Not quite THAT ballsy/insane.)


----------



## CharlieCobra

That's a bit much, especially for a C-27 and lee shores all around. Good call.


----------



## smackdaddy

Bene505 said:


> "Multimutt" LMAO
> 
> Glad you got it up, smack.
> 
> LMAO


Bene - I just noticed your sig. You are killin' me here, dude! Hilarious!

And, alas, it is true. After some insanely tasty schnitzel on CD's boat, Helen and I started talking (well actually I did all the talking - she just stared blankly about 20 degrees past me and grunted) and one thing led to another...

Deaf/Dumb/Blind - sure. But that lady is one major supa freak in the dinghy!


----------



## Giulietta

Hey Smack, your mast rake is bad and you spreader angle will break the shrouds


----------



## smackdaddy

How do I adjust the mast rake with a masthead rig? And what do I do about the spreader angle?


----------



## Giulietta

ohhh....you're in big trouble now...looks like your mast is about to break....


You need to tighten the smuler so that the twing is no longer at 65 degrees


----------



## bubb2

Giu, do you think his ducks' knee at the masthead could be the cause of the rake. I will await your answer before I add to Smack's concern. 

Smack we are talking a different fitting than your goose neck.


----------



## smackdaddy

Will you guys shut up? I'm watching Giu's how-to videos and I'm to the part where he's explaining how the flinkenschlurker is out of camber as compared to the peckersnap on an old-sandal racing cruiser. This is the best part.


----------



## Giulietta

bubb2 said:


> Giu, do you think his ducks' knee at the masthead could be the cause of the rake. I will await your answer before I add to Smack's concern.
> 
> Smack we are talking a different fitting than your goose neck.


I don't really know, and can't see from his photos, but I don't think I recognize his duck's knee..is it a French Duck Knee??? because if it is it is weak and shakes a lot....

I am also seeing how the boundary layer on his sail is bent or even detached..that's not good either


----------



## smackdaddy

Giulietta said:


> I don't really know, and can't see from his photos, but I don't think I recognize his duck's knee..is it a French Duck Knee??? because if it is it is weak and shakes a lot....
> 
> I am also seeing how the boundary layer on his sail is bent or even detached..that's not good either


OH CRAP - I know the duck's knee has a little pencil-thin mustache. I can see it from my foredeck! And it smells like merlot! Are you saying I'm going to die?????? Guys, c'mon!!! Tell me straight up?????

Keep breathing - keep breathing - keep breathing.....


----------



## MorganPaul

Hey Smack ! 
Your lifelines look a little flaccid. I just thought I should call that to your attention, for safety sake.


----------



## Bene505

I wasn't going to say anything, but his sail is totally out of camber. And his Bernuilli function isn't working. With the duck knees the way they are, he's going to need a hefty quackdratic equation to straighten it out.

For his sake, maybe we should move this to the sailing-is-expensive thread.


----------



## chall03

Smack I wasn't going to say anything either.......but there is a dirty mark in the corner of your mainsail near the clew


----------



## blt2ski

I have to say, the dirty mark I believe is ok, puke stains! We can give him that one..........maybe............ assuming he was the one that stained the main, now if it was a previous owner............... Sorry smack, you need to do something about that stain!


----------



## smackdaddy

What is this, a freakin' Tide commercial? This is the part where the lady of the house turns and flips the double-bird at her nitpicky, whiney neighbors.

Churchlady - lock and load.


----------



## Mc51

Smack. I've been sailing since 1972 and I always learn something when I read the forums. Today I learned to never post a photo of any sail I own.

Mc


----------



## Mc51

By the way I've never used a cunningham either. But I'm thinking I might try it this year. Are they expensive? I'm a poor man with a love of a rich man's sport!


----------



## sailingdog

A cunningham is one of the less expensive pieces of gear to buy and install, especially if the sail already has a cringle for it. The cunningham cringle is usually about a foot or two from the bottom of the sail.

Most cunninghams are a simple block and tackle with either a hook or a pigtail that goes through the cunningham cringle with the other end attached to either a padeye on the mast, mast step or deck.

This allows you to pull down on the cunningham cringle to flatten the sail. Of course, you could do the same thing with the main halyard, but this allows you a bit finer control over the main sail shape without touching the halyard. So you use the halyard to set the basic overall shape of the sail and the cunningham to fine tune it.

Of course, you have to have the main sail halyard reasonably tight to begin with, otherwise the cunningham will be ineffective. For instance, it probably wouldn't help on a sail that looks like this:










since, there's obviously more slack in the halyard than there is room to adjust the cunningham. 



Mc51 said:


> By the way I've never used a cunningham either. But I'm thinking I might try it this year. Are they expensive? I'm a poor man with a love of a rich man's sport!


----------



## chall03

Smack, if all else fails maybe you could get church lady to take to it with the steam iron??


----------



## blt2ski

How often do we get a chance to smack SMACK! 

Mc51. 

Assuming as dog says, you have a cringle for the cunningham, you can rig one up for less than $20-50. Most marine stores have a cuningham cringle you can buy for 10-15. Then some 3/16-1/4" line you probably have on your boat somewhere. a block(s) to return to the cabin top if you want to control from there, and you're on your way. I have a single pulley to allow me to have a 2-1. I also have cabin top winch's if things get really tough.

Marty


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey MC - watch Giu's video on the halyard/cunningham in the How-To section. It's actually pretty good if you can stay awake.

Although, according to him, with such a flaccid luff, my draft should be much farther forward in the sail. Therefore, I think the real take-away from all this is that the photo obviously shows what a master of sail trim and helming I am to be able to keep the draft centered in the main in such conditions.


----------



## Giulietta

smackdaddy said:


> if you can stay awake.


That happens a lot, when your attention span is equal to a dung beetle, and your understanding of the thing is almost nil....Fred was pretty awake in all of them..

But again...just like with a TV, there is an off button...if they make you sleep, don't watch them...


----------



## smackdaddy

Dude - just kidding. They're great. Every time I watch them I understand a bit more. When are you going to put up the one about the Duck Knee adjustment?

Love,

The Dung Beetle


----------



## Mc51

If a cringle is a reinforced grommet, my main has one about 1 foot above the boom near the mast and I have plenty of extra single blocks that I can attach at the step. Using one of the winches and cleats on the cabin top would be no problem. I'll try it the next time we're out with good wind.


----------



## quidam1947

Hey Smack,

You should invest in one of these...







Wrinkle-free Portable Steamer by Innovage $24.99 - Overstock.com​
Removes wrinkles and cleans mold-n-mildew from condensation build-up in your boat and takes care of those _pesky _uke and other stains from your _tighty-whities_ when you're all _safe-n-snuggly_ back at the dock from the BFS you just took on.


----------



## GeorgeB

Did some log updating today and found that we've logged just over 200 nm for the first three months this year and the Vallejo Season Opener is still a month away! No silver yet, but we are doing much tougher races this year. Here is a shot of us in the Double Handed Lightship race. Yeehaa! Winds sustained in the low twenties and swells running 5 - 7 feet.


----------



## sailingdog

ROFLMAO... nicely played.. 


quidam1947 said:


> Hey Smack,
> 
> You should invest in one of these...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrinkle-free Portable Steamer by Innovage $24.99 - Overstock.com​
> Removes wrinkles and cleans mold-n-mildew from condensation build-up in your boat and takes care of those _pesky _uke and other stains from your _tighty-whities_ when you're all _safe-n-snuggly_ back at the dock from the BFS you just took on.


----------



## smackdaddy

George - YOU ARE THE MAN! I really want to hear about that DHF race when you get the time.

I can't wait to crew for you on _Freya_. She is definitely a SFB. Maybe some time in August when it's actually kind of warm there?


----------



## twinsdad

*Cunningham*

Mc,

You are not going to need a winch for the cunningham. The load is not nearly as great as other lines on your boat. Hand tightening on a properly designed cunningham will be more than sufficient. You probably only need a small cam cleat as part of the rig. Typically, the lines are much narrower than a halyard or sheet.


----------



## KeelHaulin

smackdaddy said:


> Maybe some time in August when it's actually kind of warm there?


Actually Mid-April/Late May and Mid-September/Mid November are the warmest times for SF Bay. Summer Months June-August tend to bring fog in although on clear days the wind may be a bit warmer with rare days of moderate/light wind and sun. Offshore winds are generally light during summer months and if the fog is pushed offshore by high pressure it is warm but without much wind outside of the SF Gate. It's either nasty cold/windy/foggy weather or sunny and no wind (it seems) out there...


----------



## twinsdad

*SF summer*

Remember what Mark Twain said: "The coldest winter I ever spent was summer in San Francisco."


----------



## Bene505

ANd Mark Twain also said this:

[Aboard ships]:...the world is far, far away; it has ceased to exist for you--seemed a fading dream, along in the first days; has dissolved to an unreality now; it is gone from your mind with all its businesses and ambitions, its prosperities and disasters, its exultations and despairs, its joys and griefs and cares and worries. They are no concern of yours any more; they have gone out of your life; they are a storm which has passed and left a deep calm behind.
- Following the Equator


----------



## tonybinTX

*BFS photos*

From the Long distance regatta mentioned last week. None of our videos were that great. Photos below:

Here's the guy in the Melges 24 and what's left of his chute:










One of us:









A great shot of the j80's and j105. 80's were planing most of the day.


----------



## smackdaddy

Tony - those are awesome pics dude! Man it's good see some spankin' on that lake of ours!

Is that Bene pretty fast?


----------



## blt2ski

YouTube - Blakely Rocks Benefit 2009

last weekend BFS here on the sound!:laugher:laugher:laugher

Marty


----------



## tonybinTX

smackdaddy said:


> Tony - those are awesome pics dude! Man it's good see some spankin' on that lake of ours!
> 
> Is that Bene pretty fast?


It's a sweet ride for sure and the owner takes great care of her. We hit 8kts with the genny on the downwinds, but were no match for those j80's. We had to give them time and they all beat us boat for boat.


----------



## smackdaddy

Dudley survives a spanker! Finally, something respectable from the Gulfies!



kmdudley7 said:


> Well well what a great 2 days of sailing we had, camped out on boat Saturday night on Matagorda bay, about 20 miles out, just short of the BIG jetties. We were about 3 miles from homeport headin in, when out of nowhere, and I do mean nowhere, northern front moved in and... I will tell you, it was a matter of 5 minutes or less, winds were 20-30 knots out of north. We did have a frontal system moving in , but wasnt forecast to arrive until 6 pm Sunday (this was at noon Sunday). It had different plans for us.
> Beautiful skies, no cigar clouds approaching, a slight north wind that put us close hauled flying full sail and 130 jib at a blazing speed of 2-3 knots. We did not have time to douse the sails, BELIEVE me it does happen, all did within 5 minutes.. So here we were, mainsheet all the way out, main luffing wildly, jib was about to be ripped to shreds. had a very hard time furling jib in, but got it in first. (and jib did not get furled tight due to windy conditions,, will get to that part in a minute..hahaha). Now We had to get the main down, when all of a sudden my rudder swung over hard and snapped the radial stop on bottom of it, making the cable fall free from slot in radial.. NO WHEEL STEERING!!! AND the main was still up. I got the emergency tiller out and scrambled to keep boat heading into wind to no avail.. main sheet was all the way out , we heeled over at least 45 degrees and I looked at my wife and bro in law, my eyes were saying, "whether ya'll want to or not, we are gonna go swimmin'... BTW my bro in law is a stink potter, and wife is a newbie to sailing. I have sailed for 25 + years on and off, between wives, hahahahaha. ( newleyweds here) So anyways, Bro in law has to help me keeping bow headed up with tiller. We get it under into the wind, I tell them to lower the main. Well They did open up the retaining cleat from the lever being down to it being up, but they could not budge the main down at all. DUH... I had them come back to stern and I knew what the problem was,, The cam lever was not released all the way down So I had Gene (BRO IN LAW) take the wheel and I went and fully unlock the mainsheet. And lowered the main (very poorly due to gusts) of course. tried to motor, but the steering down to emergency tiller we couldnt keep headed up. So I decide kill the motor, drop the anchor, and ride it out.. This was about 1 pm now. laid out 75 feet of rode, it held well (mind you, bay is only 12 feet deep at highest at high tide. So I knew we had good rode.. So we decide to just ride it out, and low and behold the Jib started to unfurl.. Talk about a ride,, I went to bow and took me 1/2 hour to get jib tied back in place. Went back to tiller and tied it to aft cleats to keep it centered. Hour later the jib broke loose again. I always wondered why the previous owner, had all these bags of duct tape onboard?? So I get on bow again and 1/2 hour later I get it taped to roller furler. As I was finishing up jib, Gene greets me on the bow sliding on his butt, HANDING me a LIFE JACKET.. Yes I was dumb enough to go topside in 6-8 chop and 45 knot winds without a lifejacket. And yes I almost fell overboard twice.. My mistake,, VERY stoopid. Ya'll can chew me out good for that mistake I need it.!!!!!.. So anywaysssssssssss...
> We were just sitting and riding it out, SNAP.... goes the anchor rope.. right after the telescoping boat hook goes overboard, Drifting towards 3 feet of shell shoal.... I say.. YANMAR dont let me down now.. Fired it up and made a record speed of 2 knots into 45 knot wind @ 2800 rpm. Yep the hunter 28 did good. problem now was my sunbrella/bimini, was HANGING 10 so to speak. We got the cover off and was heading home at 2 knots. Finally about 6 pm we pull into harbor, and were greeted at slip by 3-4 people, 1 of which as always has to be a smartass and say something like.." didnt ya'll watch the weather reports,?????" Typical know it all... I was gonna answer him and say.. " nope sure didnt !! We are just ole country hillbillies and cant even spell weather radio, cant watch the weather news cause we aint got no tv, heck we aint even got indoor plumbin'." But I guess my bro in law knows me well enuff to say " MARK lets go home" haha The other couple that greetd us was sporting a handheld, digital Wind meter. He showed me gusts ONSHORE of 46 knots. Needless to say we survived the stuff and I am very confident of the boat. I may question my self though on the life vest thing though. The boat looks like we were testing missles, inside and out at the dock where she sits today. (will tidy up tommorrow after resting today) So in summation, May I offer these few tips I have learned.
> * Always grab the vest
> * Lower canvas and lower early, ( it did gust, no warning , in 5 minutes)
> * Chafe.... Anchor rope was riding on toe-rail. Carry rubber hose for chafe
> * I guess give yourself 4-6 hours leeway on forecast fronts
> * Teach your crew the sheets, etc what they do etc..
> BTW on the radio, there was 3 PAN PANs' issued, 1 by a capsised CAT, another by a 23' stink pot taking on water, grounded at the rock jetties, and another was just concerned about their status in the gusts. So we werent alone. Hope they all made it in safe. thanks for letting me share this with ya'll on this VERY good forum
> Mark and Karen
> Palacios Texas
> Hunter 28
> "KAREN MARIE"
> __________________
> Marky Palcios Texas
> 1990 Hunter 28


----------



## tonybinTX

blt2ski said:


> YouTube - Blakely Rocks Benefit 2009
> 
> last weekend BFS here on the sound!:laugher:laugher:laugher
> 
> Marty


Smokn! Hair on fire!


----------



## smackdaddy

Bluto - dude, that was just freakin' sad! A couple of those boats were going backwards - WITH A SPIN FLYING!

That definitely belongs in the LFS thread.


----------



## blt2ski

Please note,

I did not say it was a BFS in the BIG wind style. but a BIG freaken LONG sail as in 6+ hours to do what I should have done in about 2.5-3 hrs! We were going backwards t one time too! No wind, tide going the other way.......one can go backwards around here too! joys of saltwater sailing in a really large canal with upwards of 14' tide swings! altho saturday was 4-6' at the most in both directions.


----------



## GeorgeB

Smack, do you still want to hear about the DHF? Unlike Heatwave's experience, DHF was the opposite of a BFS for us. David Sevais' multi part write up on SA is an excellent recounting of what happened to them. For us, the two noteworthy parts were the start and the battle to get around Pt. Bonita fighting an adverse current, the "washing machine" (a.k.a. rip current), and a complete lack of wind, Oh, and throw in 30 to 40 boats with no steerage and close proximity to the rocks.










Looking back, the weather forecasts were pretty accurate for DHF. I'd been tracking the forecasts since the previous Monday and they (mostly) showed the 5kt component for race day. They also were predicting the 20 - 30kts for overnight, but were also forecasting an easing on Sunday (that never showed up). For most of the preceding week, there were Small Craft and Gale warnings for the Gulf of the Farallones. I think that when the forecaster reviewed his model, he detuned the upper wind speed predictions. After all, who'd believe a forecast that read wind speeds from 5 to 40 knots in the Gulf on Saturday. Anyways, we interpreted the winds to be a repeat of DHLS two weeks before. The lull in wind Friday night through most of the day on Saturday had a calming effect on the sea state where we had a few waves above 10-15' feet, but were so long in period that we actually sailed beam to them for a short while across the Potato Patch without a problem.









<O
In light of what happened to the DHF, The OYRA Duxbury Reef race was cancelled last weekend do to a lack of wind and a flood tide which would have duplicated the Farallones conditions. And I think someone must have seen or heard about the congestion of boats off of Pt. Bonita and deemed that it was potentially hazardous (now that everybody knows where the secret eddy lies.

I don't think that the wind and waves were too much to handle on the return leg. Heatwave just had an extraordinary bit of bad luck having their keel fall off. It was the suddenness of going from exhilarating to treading water that is giving us time to pause and rethink our safety processes.

<OOn a lighter note, summer is upon us and the schedule is filling up quickly, the first (1&2) and last (29&30) weekends are open for us in August as is mid-July. We may sail down to Monterey in September. Let me know your thoughts


----------



## TSOJOURNER

3/28 - San Diego Bay. Had a relative rip roarer of a sail with the wife this particular Saturday afternoon. I've had her out in mostly moderate stuff until this point, and usually with additional crew. Her main experiece being our 7 day BVI honeymoon charter, where we saw no more than 12 knots. 

Anyone who's sailed in SD knows that variable 10 knots is the norm. We had a Catalina 34' out this day and it was blowin' 15 kts from the get go. We headed out off shore for about 2 hours in some seriously champaign sailing conditions, close reaching westward, in 15 kts and moderate seas. When she was ready, we tacked back and ran with the swell for a bit, which she loved helming, and dropped the hook behind the Zuniga jetty for lunch. 

After a sandwich, beer(s) and nap, I prepared her for a sailing off the anchor drill. With her on the helm, we nailed it, beared away seaward and furled out the genoa for the sail back into the harbor. This is where the fun began.

When we rounded the tip of the jetty and tacked to port to head in, the wind kicked up to 23 knts, feeling like 28 on the face. With all of our canvas up it was clear that we were over powered and I had her head into the wind so I could throw in a reef. Well here's where things got dicey...

Being that she's a novice on the helm, staying head to wind was nearly impossible, so I aborted the reef, had her bear away, feathered the main out, and rolled in half the genoa. Still overpowered we headed in at hull speed, with yee haws coming from my helmswoman. I had attentive eyes trained on the Ballast Point puffs so that I could feather the main so ease the heel. We smoked in at hull speed and beared away further for a broad reach towards the city. 

End result...a wife ready for more off shore travel, excellent.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Nice!

Marty, I remember well going backwards for four friggin' hours during one race.


----------



## GeorgeB

Drifted backwards for four hours in a race and it didn’t occur to you to drop the hook? On light air days, we carry our lunch hook and rode down in the cabin in a bag. When our GPS speed approaches zero, we covertly slip the anchor over the side away from our closest competitors and cleat it off to the midship cleat. That way, no one sees us riding the anchor. I don’t need a good set because I am still sailing and eventually, I need to trip and haul in anyway. My record so far is anchoring in 98 feet using 250’ of rode. Yeah, 2:1 scope, but who’s sleeping anyway. Another thing we do is to point the boat in the direction of the strongest flow so I have the least resistance and can hold my position in the lightest of breezes. Better that than point to the mark only to be flushed out to sea.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Too deep and I was dead in the channel. The water was too skinny to drop the hook.


----------



## smackdaddy

FairwindSD said:


> 3/28 - San Diego Bay. Had a relative rip roarer of a sail with the wife this particular Saturday afternoon. I've had her out in mostly moderate stuff until this point, and usually with additional crew. Her main experiece being our 7 day BVI honeymoon charter, where we saw no more than 12 knots.
> 
> Anyone who's sailed in SD knows that variable 10 knots is the norm. We had a Catalina 34' out this day and it was blowin' 15 kts from the get go. We headed out off shore for about 2 hours in some seriously champaign sailing conditions, close reaching westward, in 15 kts and moderate seas. When she was ready, we tacked back and ran with the swell for a bit, which she loved helming, and dropped the hook behind the Zuniga jetty for lunch.
> 
> After a sandwich, beer(s) and nap, I prepared her for a sailing off the anchor drill. With her on the helm, we nailed it, beared away seaward and furled out the genoa for the sail back into the harbor. This is where the fun began.
> 
> When we rounded the tip of the jetty and tacked to port to head in, the wind kicked up to 23 knts, feeling like 28 on the face. With all of our canvas up it was clear that we were over powered and I had her head into the wind so I could throw in a reef. Well here's where things got dicey...
> 
> Being that she's a novice on the helm, staying head to wind was nearly impossible, so I aborted the reef, had her bear away, feathered the main out, and rolled in half the genoa. Still overpowered we headed in at hull speed, with yee haws coming from my helmswoman. I had attentive eyes trained on the Ballast Point puffs so that I could feather the main so ease the heel. We smoked in at hull speed and beared away further for a broad reach towards the city.
> 
> End result...a wife ready for more off shore travel, excellent.


Hey Fair - welcome to SN dude! And, more importantly, welcome to BFS. Nice write up. I'm telling you, I don't think there's a sweeter sound in God's universe than a chick screamin' "yeehaw" at the helm.

George - let's shoot for the last weekend in August. I'll start workin' the plans.


----------



## blt2ski

From what I understand, there is nothing wrong or illegal to drop a hook if your going backwards. Heard about that locally before in bigger races. I am also recalling a V70 doing that going into Boston harbor a couple of years ago. Wind died and they were going nowhere going up a river chanel, dropped the hook for 60 min or 6 hrs or so under a bridge, then the wind came up, the tide changed, and off they went to the finish some 30 mins away!

Around here the water can be 600+ deep in the middle of puget sound. I did not go backwards this time for too long, maybe 100' or yds. Do not have a gps to figure out the over the bottom speed at this time. Have to rely on the old fashioned take a sighting with compass!

Sometimes things just do not work right!

Marty


----------



## CharlieCobra

blt2ski said:


> YouTube - Blakely Rocks Benefit 2009
> 
> last weekend BFS here on the sound!:laugher:laugher:laugher
> 
> Marty


That's what Summer sailing is like up here normally which is why we go out in November gales for excitement.:laugher


----------



## CBinRI

blt2ski said:


> From what I understand, there is nothing wrong or illegal to drop a hook if your going backwards. Heard about that locally before in bigger races. I am also recalling a V70 doing that going into Boston harbor a couple of years ago. Wind died and they were going nowhere going up a river chanel, dropped the hook for 60 min or 6 hrs or so under a bridge, then the wind came up, the tide changed, and off they went to the finish some 30 mins away!
> 
> Around here the water can be 600+ deep in the middle of puget sound. I did not go backwards this time for too long, maybe 100' or yds. Do not have a gps to figure out the over the bottom speed at this time. Have to rely on the old fashioned take a sighting with compass!
> 
> Sometimes things just do not work right!
> 
> Marty


Absolutely nothing wrong with throwing anchor during a race (unless there are specific race rules against it) and I've seen it done. I was in a race around Prudence Island a couple of years back that started at 9:30 in the morning with no wind but a strong current. About half of the boats got swept by the current to the wrong side of the mark and those that threw their anchors and waited for the wind to fill in did much better than those who had to sail back to the mark.


----------



## chall03

I pop my head back into this BFS thread and all of a sudden everyone is talking about drifting backwards and anchors?

 

Ok for the folk who actually do know how to sail, no this isn't really a BFS, we are just over canvassed and hard on the wind in a bit of chop, but it does look kinda cool and it will give Smack something to aspire to once Churchlady irons the wrinkles out of his main.

This is in Sydney Harbour, east coast of Australia.


----------



## Bene505

chall,

Very nice. With that much heel, you could use TruGiu's cockpit seating method.

Regards


----------



## smackdaddy

chall03 said:


> I pop my head back into this BFS thread and all of a sudden everyone is talking about drifting backwards and anchors?
> 
> 
> 
> Ok for the folk who actually do know how to sail, no this isn't really a BFS, we are just over canvassed and hard on the wind in a bit of chop, but it does look kinda cool and it will give Smack something to aspire to once Churchlady irons the wrinkles out of his main.
> 
> This is in Sydney Harbour, east coast of Australia.


Chall - I just got all teary-eyed. That's beautiful man! BTW - your jib knot is a disgrace. And your mainsheet needs a freakin' shave.


----------



## mrwuffles

ya and what were you thinking leaving that winch handle in the winch??????? JK nice sail wish I was out there.


----------



## FrancoC

smackdaddy:

Did you get my PM?

Franco Cuminato


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey Franco - yeah I got it. I just don't do the pm thing much.


----------



## PCP777

My favorite BFS sailing video is this one....


----------



## smackdaddy

PCP - that one is most definitely sweet. I love the one shot of those guys surfing that Open 60(?). And you can't help but love those cats getting tossed around like toys. SailingDog would cry at that one.

But - man, that music! I just never could get into Buck Owens and his whole "Death Country" phase.


----------



## PCP777

LOL, that's an American metal band called Lamb of God. Pretty bad ass instrumental IMO.


----------



## twinsdad

That music is just bad, but the video is great!


----------



## smackdaddy

PCP777 said:


> LOL, that's an American metal band called Lamb of God. Pretty bad ass instrumental IMO.


The drums rock. I'm a drummer. I know rock. Nice C25 BTW.


----------



## chall03

smackdaddy said:


> Chall - I just got all teary-eyed. That's beautiful man! BTW - your jib knot is a disgrace. And your mainsheet needs a freakin' shave.


LOL Smack. The Mainsheet was replaced 3 days after this, it now looks beautiful 

Mr Wuffles, good spot on the winch handle, we were fully crewed during this and their was actually someone trimming the headsail, who isn't in that pic. 
My winch handles are also of course the lock in kind 

We do also have an onboard policy that states that whoever loses a winch handle overboard, owes the crew a round of beers, and has also volunteered themselves to jump in the water and clean the hull before the next race 

Mr Wuffles of course if no one has dropped a winch handle in the drink, then the youngest on the crew is normally 'volunteered' for hull cleaning duty


----------



## smackdaddy

chall03 said:


> LOL Smack. The Mainsheet was replaced 3 days after this, it now looks beautiful


Heh-heh. No worries mate. I'm still bitter after the whole mainsail beatdown I took. Animals.


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - we've got another shy BFSer. So I'll do the heavy lifting here. Welcome to the hallowed halls of big freakin' sails Sandusky!

Part One:


Sanduskysailor said:


> Having survived a 3 day storm in the Atlantic 5 years ago this week, I have some definite ideas regarding suitable blue water offshore boats. Granted, the sustained winds never exceeded 58 knots, the seas were the big problem. Fortunately the 55' aluminum purpose built boat I was on had a pilot house. Standing watches every 8 hours for 3 days in that sea state would have been physically impossible. Sitting in a gimballed chair for 4 hours and 4 hours in a pilot house sea berth was taxing enough. It is hard to accurately describe the violent motion that 25 foot breaking and confused seas make. You are constantly bracing yourself which inevitably becomes very tiring. Common tasks like making a sandwich take about 10 times as long and are tiring. The sheer power of waves, crashing over the pilothouse on occasion, was unbelievable. I never once thought the boat wasn't going to make it although we were occasionally were concerned about the hull tripping as we slid down a wave on our side.
> 
> In comparison, a friends Ericson 46 left St. Thomas a couple of days behind us, hit the storm for 1/2 a day, veered off towards Bermuda and limped in to Hampton Roads a week later than us. Their boat was obviously sturdy and well built for a production boat. Unfortunately it really couldn't handle those conditions for long. The boat was a total writeoff at the dock. The crew injuries included a broken arm and fractured ribs. The cabin sole had broken loose, the nav station had broken from its tabs and every bulkhead was broken. Yikes!
> 
> The main problem is that people on this board have varying opinions of blue water capable. I'd venture to say that most haven't been out in a sustained storme in the Atlantic. Some think they will be ok with the right equipment, some think it is heavy displacement, and others foolishly think that if a sister production boat has made offshore passages then they are good to go. Heck I believed some of these things too until I was caught in it 350 miles offshore.
> 
> Bottom line is that it is a combination things. If your boat can't withstand drops off 25 foot waves then I wouldn't venture to far into the Atlantic in spring. The key is to have good planning, good communication and no timetable. Having to get somewhere is the major reason for a lot of mistakes.
> 
> Of course if all you are doing is going to the Bahamas and island hopping south then any decent production boat is ok so long as your plan your trip right.


Part Two:


Sanduskysailor said:


> Valiente, you and I are on the same page on this one. When planning our trip the weather forecast was pretty good for the 1200 miles. We were taking a route directly from St. Thomas to a point about 100 miles east of Cape Hatteras and then to the Chesapeake. We made several mistakes. One, we made the trip the first week of April which is about 3 weeks too early. 3 low pressure systems came off the east coast and unexpectedly formed into a monster storm which rotated the wind to the southeast while we were 350miles off St. Augustine. Next big mistake was to ignore weather advice of our weather router. He warned us to turn southwest and head for south Florida and not to sail north of the 29th parallel. Our skipper decided to go against the advice and trust a forecast we had for our Maxsea nav software provider. (daily gribs by modem that overlayed our electronic charts). Unbeknown to us, our skipper had a time constraint which influenced his decision. Next we were going with the storm which meant we experienced the storm for 3 days. Although heaving to or beating into 25ft waves really didn't look like a great option, we would have been in the storm for a shorter period of time. 25 ft waves are doable but not when they are confused, steep, and breaking. Unbelievable power in those waves.
> 
> The things we did right. We were 3 reasonably fit men with a fair amount of experience, mechanical expertise and sea miles. Not the place for the wife and kids. We had a proper boat, although designed by the owner (architect), it was professionally built by a quality boat manufacturer Hike Metal Products Ltd. and the design was reviewed by a naval architect and engineering firm. The boat was fast with a hull speed of over 10 knots and it was very stiff. We maintained a constant watch system and made every effort to conserve our energy. Sleeping was near impossible even with lee cloths, pillows, and numerous life jackets as we tried to wedge into our berths. We maintained communication with our SSB and Satphone which at times was reassuring. Because we had a proper pilothouse we were never cold or wet which would have contributed greatly to fatigue. We had 2 underdeck hydraulic autopilots. Both pilots had electronic rudder sensors and we could manually adjust the yaw rates. The engine and battery compartments were completely watertight and designed to survive a rollover. For the record, the boat was an aluminum 55 foot pilothouse (53' waterline) that weighed 32,000# all up, 10.5' lifting keel with a 12,500 bulb on the bottom of it. The engine was a 110hp turbo diesel laser aligned and bolted between the 2 longitudinal stringers that ran the length of the boat. The mast, hydraulic lifting keel and engine was secured to the stringers. The construction also included ring frames that provided transverse support.The boat was constructed with a forward watertight crash compartment, accessible only by deck hatch which is where stored spare sails, lines, etc. The were also 2 watertight bulkheads with gasketed doors. We carried 320 gallons a fuel in 4 tanks that were centrally controlled. The tanks could be pumped from one to another with either the electric or manual pumps. For electronics, we had full instrumentation, 36 mile Radar, SSB, SSB fax/modem, Satphone, 3 cell phones, DSC VHF radio, Electronic Navigation software on laptop in Nav Station, Epirb in main cabin, second Epirp with liferaft, Offshore liferaft with full provisions and crash bag.
> 
> Essentially we were prepared for just about anything and the preparedness saved our bacon. I would imagine if you bought a custom French alloy cruiser equipped the same as this boat you are looking at 750-900K to get an equivalent boat. The owner did a lot the interior work himself, supervised construction, and diligently sourced the components using a rig off a Frers 45 that had been destroyed in a fire (rig not on boat). He reinforced the rig, designed new spreaders that had a wider sheeting base and basically made the rig pretty stout. With all of that I would estimate that he had in excess of 275K in the boat when finished.
> 
> The point of all this is: This is the reality of what a true offshore boat costs. From my experience, production boats are not built that way nor should they be. Most boats are perfectly fine for taking to the Carribean or doing reasonable distance offshore in weather seasons and areas where severe storms are extremely rare. Yes, you can go around the world in a Catalina 27 but you have to be both lucky and skilled in your planning, boat preparation, and seamanship. People have done it and others have failed miserably. It is your risk albeit a big one. Through unpredicted or unforeseen circumstances if you are caught out in a big storm in an area where seas get rough you can have a very unfortunate outcome without the proper equipment.


Part Three:


Sanduskysailor said:


> Valiente, you might notice the decision to go into the storm was made for the wrong reasons. Even if we had turned around we still would have experienced some of the storm (probably a half a day). The owner has sworn never to do that again. I agree that most of the time you can avoid situations like this but there is always a chance that something happens that the forecast doesn't expect.
> 
> Some notes about the pilothouse. The starboard side has a pilot berth with lee cloth. Very comfy and just long enough to lay down in. The port side had a nav station with controls and electronics. It also had a gimballed leather seat out of a Porsche 911 that was sweet. You could lock the chair at an angle which really helped when the boat was bouncing around. The other thing of note were the pilothouse windows. The forward window had a hatch in it and was lexan. The side windows were 3/4" tempered glass. Plexiglass is too flexible and would have blown out with the first big wave. Lexan is tinted and is difficult to see out of on a dark night so not an option for all of the windows.
> 
> The 10-1/2 deep keel bulb was great for stability. The boat empty was about 28,000 with about 4,000# of fuel,water, stores, sails, rig etc. The hull shape was not flat but more a V shape A motor driven hydraulic pump lifted the keel to 6-1/2' when motoring into the dock. As far as I know, this might be the only sailboat ever built by Hike. The workmanship and quality were first rate. As I said in a previous post, I never doubted that the boat would be fine. Aluminum for a boat this size is a great choice.


Part Four:


Sanduskysailor said:


> Smack Daddy, I've got a better story from the same trip. After weathering the storm we had a brilliant day and a half sailing across a now tranquil Gulfstream and around a very quiet Cape Hatteras. We are making between 8 and 10 knots with our Asymmetrical spinnaker. The temperatures are moderate as I comfortably snooze in one of the mid berths. About 2:00 in the morning I am awakened by yelling from the 2 on watch in the pilothouse. As I scramble out of my cozy berth I slip on a thin patch of ice formed by spray around the mast as the temperature has dropped 25 degrees.
> 
> I can tell by the anxious and loud yelling that there must be something seriously wrong. I throw my vest on and head up to the pilothouse. We are now motoring into a headwind as the wind has shifted from the southeast to NNW. The 2 other crew excitedly point at the radar screen which shows an enormous blip 4 miles from us. It is obvious it is a very big ship, either an aircraft carrier(we are heading towards Norfolk) or a car carrier. The blip is circling our vessel every 45 seconds!! This is really freaking us out since what could be that big and that fast. We immediately rule out aircraft or helicopters. We have just sailed about 950 miles through the Devils Triangle. Nah, I don't believe in that stuff. The blip continues to make a constant circle around us on the screen. Could this be some secret government weapon? My half awake brain was really racing now. What the heck could be that big and circle in an 8 mile diameter every 45 seconds???
> 
> Eventually, one of the crew points to the not too trusty KVH sailcomp which has a very dim and flickering display. The heading display is rapidly moving from 0 to 355 and then starting again. The light bulb goes on, there is a big ship out there alright and it is our boat that is going in a fairly tight circle. The primary autopilot has broken and is steering very steadily in a circle. On a moonless, starless night, we really don't have a horizon to focus on so in our fatigued state we don't realize our situation. Immediately we disengage the primary autopilot and switch on the backup which works like a champ. We spend the next 2 watches laughing about how stupid we are.
> 
> In the morning the owner/designer climbs into the aft "garage" to survey the damage. The stainless screws in the autopilot bracket had stripped out from the loads during the storm causing the bracket to flop around and wedge in one position. A quick drill, tap and larger bolts and we are good to go with the primary autopilot again.
> 
> One of the few times when I have gone from adrenalin pumping terror to uncontrolled laughter on a boat.


----------



## chall03

Damn. 58 knots would upset me.


----------



## sailingdog

Umm... considering the lousy shape your mainsail had, you kind of deserved the beat down...it was meant to further educate you as to the proper sail form for BFS.... 



smackdaddy said:


> Heh-heh. No worries mate. I'm still bitter after the whole mainsail beatdown I took. Animals.


----------



## smackdaddy

Heh-heh. Yeah - you're right Dog. Thanks for helping a brother out. 

BTW - have you implemented those "heavy weather" safety procedures I ran you through based on your shocking video? If you're going to BFS with the big boys - you gotta work on that, dude. Still makes me shudder to think what could have happened!


----------



## chall03

BFS Safety procedures on a Multi?? 

Like be careful not to fill your Champagne glass right to the very top in case there is momentarily 3 degrees of Heel as you hit 15 knots?


----------



## Bene505

Sorry smack, I saw this on the drive home and had recurring nightmares about your sail.

.

Make it stop. Oh make it stop!!!

.


----------



## twinsdad

*Tough crowd*

Remind me to never show pictures of me sailing my boat. Not sure my ego could take the criticism!


----------



## Bene505

twinsdad said:


> Remind me to never show pictures of me sailing my boat. Not sure my ego could take the criticism!


Smack is coming up to visit us in June. I expect to throw quite a few beers his way. It's meant (and taken) purely in fun. I for one respect his eagerness to learn and the enthusiasm he shows toward sailing. Besides, he learned something about cunninghams and things like that.

Fear not posting a picture of yourself sailing. You'll have fun and maybe learn something (if not get a few beers out of it).


----------



## smackdaddy

chall03 said:


> BFS Safety procedures on a Multi??
> 
> Like be careful not to fill your Champagne glass right to the very top in case there is momentarily 3 degrees of Heel as you hit 15 knots?


Hey - flat-running multis obviously give their skippers more time to study sailing encyclopedias. I mean, there's that.

Bene - are those the "big girl panties" T always refers to? Otherwise, dude, if those are yours, suddenly I'm very busy in June.

And Twins - don't sweat it dude. Dog is the only one that doesn't seem to have a sense of humor about it all. Of course, that's what makes it funny.

(PS - Bene, if you're driving home AND having recurring nightmares while doing it - you reeeaaaalllly need to get that narcolepsy thing back under control.)


----------



## Bene505

smackdaddy said:


> Hey - flat-running multis obviously give their skippers more time to study sailing encyclopedias. I mean, there's that.
> 
> Bene - are those the "big girl panties" T always refers to? Otherwise, dude, if those are yours, suddenly I'm very busy in June.
> 
> And Twins - don't sweat it dude. Dog is the only one that doesn't seem to have a sense of humor about it all. Of course, that's what makes it funny.
> 
> (PS - Bene, if you're driving home AND having recurring nightmares while doing it - you reeeaaaalllly need to get that narcolepsy thing back under control.)


AHAHAHHAHAHAHA

LMAOROF


----------



## Giulietta

here Smacky


----------



## bestfriend

Hey G! what are you doing up so late?


----------



## CharlieCobra

He's stuck in Arizona....


----------



## blt2ski

Alex, 

Anywhere near Taos? they might be still open to make some ear to ear arcs on snow! You can get a BFS(ki) in! 

Marty


----------



## twinsdad

*Sailing starts soon*

So sailing season starts here in a few weeks. Maybe I'll get the courage to show pictures - I better prepare my ego! Besides, it's my last season with this boat. Switching from an Express '34 to a Seawind 1000XL - yes Smack, that means I'm going to the dark side of multihulls!


----------



## smackdaddy

Nnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!


----------



## mrwuffles

Hey smack I am in the multi world also....water is at 50 degrees here! once it breaks 65 I'll be in business cant wait for a Hobie BFS!


----------



## Bene505

MrWuffles, with all due respoect, you keep saying that. It's time to get a wetsuit on and get her out there. Heck, Lucas and I have surfed in the ocean in mid April - and me without a wetsuit.

So get out there already.

Of course, don't let it get in the way of your studying. Show us some Big Freakin' Studying/Grades.


----------



## smackdaddy

mrwuffles said:


> Hey smack I am in the multi world also....water is at 50 degrees here! once it breaks 65 I'll be in business cant wait for a Hobie BFS!


A hundred bucks cash money if I hear Dog complaining in a few weeks about some Eastie kid mooning him while flying a hull and blowing past his Telstar!


----------



## blt2ski

I'd luv it if the water were 50F around here. 43-45 24/7/365.25! 50F would be warm!

SO quit your beeching folks, get out there and sail! whom cares about the icebergs etc. Just do it!


----------



## Giulietta

I'm sailing next week...be back home....

Last time I was on shorts and T shirt!! making spinnaker videos!!


----------



## mrwuffles

Bene505 said:


> MrWuffles, with all due respoect, you keep saying that. It's time to get a wetsuit on and get her out there. Heck, Lucas and I have surfed in the ocean in mid April - and me without a wetsuit.
> 
> So get out there already.
> 
> Of course, don't let it get in the way of your studying. Show us some Big Freakin' Studying/Grades.[/QUOTE
> 
> Ill see, maybe I'll dig out my dads suit soon....smacky I'll see what I can do.


----------



## smackdaddy

Ahhhh - what a beauty of a weekend. Yes, the world may be going to hell in a handbasket with a global depression, a flu pandemic, and The White Stripes refusing to get back together - but, hey, we've got sailing.

Finally took the family out for an overnighter. And it was awesome. Yesterday we started with a steady 20 with gusts to 30 - and were completely overpowered with our 170 and full main. Smackmutha was at the helm and got to experience a couple of broaches before I heard Caleb's/Jody's voices in my head telling me that there was no shame in maybe one little reef. However, she was smiling ear to ear and throwin' down the "yeehaw" as we were laying over 45 degrees. I love that woman.

After crankin' down a reef in the main, we kept powering through for another few hours as the wind built a bit more. It was howlin! But the "Smacktanic" ate it up and whole family did really well.

We anchored for the night at a small island that had a really crappy anchorage - a shallow shelf of mud on the sheltered side of the island that dropped off a couple of hundred feet about 40 feet from shore. We finally got the anchor to bite on the shelf - but with the wind still blowin' 20+ I didn't trust it. So instead of pulling up and looking for a better place - I slammed a shot of rum, put a dive knife in my teeth, tied a line to my ankle and swam for it (a tiny bit of embellishment there). Tied the line off to a stump on the island and swam back - peeing the whole way. Hey, c'mon, who doesn't?

Anyway, then my 8 year old punk of a son wouldn't let down the ladder. I can still hear his voice..."Whatcha gonna do now Smackdaddy? Huh? Water cold? Why are your lips blue?" It was like having a cloned Sailingdog midget in my cockpit.

We fired up the bbq and grilled some stupid tasty filet-migs in honor of CD, polished off a couple D&Ss and watched the sun set. Then it immediately started blowing and raining like stink again as we bedded down. Hearing the wind in the rigging all night (barely audible over my 5-yo's incessant snoring) made me appreciate a bit more how scary it would be to be caught in a storm at night. Kudos to you dudes that have been through it. 

Checked the anchorage several times during the night - not on a schedule or anything like a true seaman would - just when I woke up in a cold sweat thinking we were drifting toward the abyss known as "Carlos and Charlies".

This morning was like freakin' Seattle...cold, rainy, and STILL blowing 30 knots! The anchoring held. But I realized I had another swim ahead of me. Either that or cut the lines...and I'm way too cheap to do that. Did the deed - threatened my 8-yo with bodily harm if he pulled the ladder stunt again - and re-boarded.

Now - to show you guys how cool of a wife I have - Smackmutha was weighing the anchor on the bow. She kept saying how heavy it was - and I kept saying "Aaaaaa...suck it up woman!" (quoting TJK) as I dried off with a used napkin and fought off hypothermia. She sucked it up alright - then pulled the anchor to the surface - STILL CONNECTED TO A HUGE FREAKIN' TREE STUMP! What a monster that chick is...all 108 pounds of her! Did I mention that I love that woman?

We tied off the mess and finally got the rhode and chain unwrapped from the stump and motored on in.

This has to be some kind of sailing threshold we just crossed. No epic sailing per se - but definitely an epic weekend for us. And we can now officially say we're no longer just day sailors.

Sailing freakin' rocks. No doubt.


----------



## Tartan53a1

YES!!

Smackdaddy...you're the king of BFS..show these losers what sailing is all about!!

Love you!!

Go...dude..go....


----------



## sailingdog

smackdaddy said:


> Anyway, then my 8 year old punk of a son wouldn't let down the ladder. I can still hear his voice..."Whatcha gonna do now Smackdaddy? Huh? Water cold? Why are your lips blue?" It was like having a cloned Sailingdog midget in my cockpit.


Nah... I would have peed on your head...  :laugher



> We fired up the bbq and grilled some stupid tasty filet-migs *in honor of CD*, polished off a couple D&Ss and watched the sun set. Then it immediately started blowing and raining like stink again as we bedded down. Hearing the wind in the rigging all night (barely audible over my 5-yo's incessant snoring) made me appreciate a bit more how scary it would be to be caught in a storm at night. Kudos to you dudes that have been through it.


Explains why the missus was actually sailing the boat.


----------



## smackdaddy

Here's another great BFS from StAnna (from the HWS thread):



St Anna said:


> OK Smacker,
> 
> A couple of days in heaven. A place called Pearl Bay, then a quiet sail with drifters to a rocky island called Hexham. The forecast said that in about 3 days, a trough was going to pass over and we could expect northerlies. I thought, this is cool - well be long gone in when they hit.
> 
> Well it went from picture perfect of 10 kn SE, anchored in a rocky bay on the N side of the island to 35kn gusting 45kn N -NW at 1 am. Surf coming in the bay. We sat up on anchor watch, the bow dropping under each wave. We werent dragging, so we stayed put. At about 6.30 am, when their was enough light to see, we decided to move.
> 
> I pulled up the anchor and apparenty the surf was boiling around my waist in each trough. Anyway, we got out of the bay and could only beat to the NE under 3rd reef in main and 8' of genny out. The swells were about 3-4 m high but coming in from NE and NW. They either sort of cancelled out or added up together and 3 times, we fell into the trough, the deck under green, white water hitting the doghouse. The breeze was over 40kn , gusting higher.
> 
> St. Anna just pulled free. water got in through the dorades, but not much in the cockpit and the washbourds were up. We were harnessed on. Another step in the learning curve where I (Mr Intelligence) put myself somewhere and the boat got us out!! Next anchorage was a dream place just up the road called Middle Percy Island (google it)


----------



## ste27

Sounds like an interesting trip.. but dude, a 170??? Do you actually manage to go to weather with that thing?


----------



## smackdaddy

Heh-heh, yeah it's kind of super-overkill. But CharlieCobra busted my 110 beatin' down a regatta on New Year's Day...the bastard. So the 170 (hank on) is all I have right now. I'll get another 110 soon.

I do have to say, though, that the C27 can definitely point and shoot. Even CC was impressed.

PS - I just noticed another Tartan sank. Banned in 10? Respect.


----------



## CharlieCobra

See my Old Shoe thread for the reason... 

It looked like a driveby from some sockpuppet from stuffim...


----------



## bubb2

smackdaddy said:


> PS - I just noticed another Tartan sank. Banned in 10? Respect.


If it takes you 10 posts to get banned you are not really trying.


----------



## smackdaddy

*now that's some sail*

What - 40+ knots? And look at all that sail.

Stones, man. Stones.










Also - check out the bend in that mast. Yowza!


----------



## CharlieCobra

They've got those runners cranked tight.


----------



## GeorgeB

What’s the story behind the picture? Man, that boat is loaded up and hauling fast freight! And you were all lathered up about drogues and sea anchors. The answer is right in front of you – foot off and crank on another sail! I Charlie – I wonder if they even have their runners set with a bow like that. Conversation amongst the afterguard: “Say Butch, does the stick look a little out of column to you too?” Had a shackle fail on a loaded runner once. It released like a rifle shot and it wasn’t hardly loaded up at all.


----------



## smackdaddy

What are runners? And about the whole drogue/anchor thing - I was just trying to appear prudent. Complete sham.

What do you guys think the conditions are in the photo? Don't know the story behind it BTW - just came across it and cried.


----------



## blt2ski

Smack,

SWAG here, blowing 30+, they have a single reef, 110 an a smallish what some would call a cheater spin up. IE the spin is just above the fractional rigged jib area, vs some fractional boats will put up a masthead spin that would be double to maybe 50% bigger than what they are flying. SPeed, mid teens to low 20's possible. 

I can not tell the type of boat, but a more recent design that is IRC oriented. Mid 40-50' long would be my guess.

Marty


----------



## smackdaddy

It's a Hanse called "Dusselboot" - don't know the length or the race. I'll see what else I can find.


----------



## blt2ski

A quick google over 3 min, makes me believe it might be the new 630, but do not quote me, as I am not positive myself, I could not find a pic to confirm.


----------



## smackdaddy

So what are runners? Oh - and another super stupid newb question - what's the deal with "2-speed", etc. winches? I don't get the speed thing. I keep cranking mine and I still only go CRAZY-FAST!


----------



## ste27

smackdaddy said:


> So what are runners? Oh - and another super stupid newb question - what's the deal with "2-speed", etc. winches? I don't get the speed thing. I keep cranking mine and I still only go CRAZY-FAST!


Running backstays... umm, google it, it'll make more sense with pictures. Hard to tell, but I think that boat has a conventional (though adjustable) backstay functioning in the pic

2 speed winches, crank one way for one gear ratio, another way for another ratio. Some boats have 3 speed... I think the mainsheet winch on Donnybrook was 4 speed somehow and connected to a coffee grinder but I can't be sure of that, I spent virtually all of my waking hours on that trip driving

As for conditions... I'd guess somewhere around 25 if it's open ocean, maybe up to 30. It's really hard to tell from that high though. I'm guessing if it was truly honking they wouldn't have the staysail/jib up


----------



## smackdaddy

Cool - thanks Ste! As for the windspeed - it looked higher to me with all that spindrift. But you sound like you know a hell of a lot more than I do.

How 'bout the Donnybrook story, dude?


----------



## ste27

smackdaddy said:


> Cool - thanks Ste! As for the windspeed - it looked higher to me with all that spindrift. But you sound like you know a hell of a lot more than I do.
> 
> How 'bout the Donnybrook story, dude?


Eh, I dunno about that... just a dude who does a fair bit of sailing  I agree about the water surface, but lowered my guess based on the sail area up, apparent lack of spray in the air, and what the wake looks like vs the rest of the water - like I said though, it's REALLY hard to tell from that high.

Donnybrook... if you're not familiar with the boat, DONNYBROOK USA 66 Since I already mentioned some of the systems:

Mainsheet dead ends starboard side, through a block on the traveller car up to the boom and back to another block on the car, around a turning block port side and then onto a winch the size of a dinner plate. Primary winches are similar size. All three are controlled by a coffee grinder with a selector switch. Outhaul, vang, and backstays are hydraulic. Dual wheels, each of which has a foot button that's an emergency vang release.

Anyway, so I was wandering around RBYC after the Newport to Bermuda last year and heard they were looking for delivery crew. Little bit after clearing the reef on the way out we took a bit of a freak wave in otherwise flat calm and ended up drowning the HF radio, laptop I think... etc. I dunno, I was just a helm, that stuff was the mate and deliver skipper's problem! So, we're on our way to Annapolis and we know there's a big low between us and land but without a weather link we could only take our best guesses based on the 5 days we had before leaving Bermuda. We went south of rhumb line and avoided the worst of it... where by worst of it I mean we were seeing 35-ish for maybe 48 hours, over 40 for 24 maybe?. The details are a bit fuzzy as I've blocked a fair bit of this out... not a great trip! I think while I was off watch (note I didn't say asleep) someone saw over 50. Oh, and this was all going to weather, on a planing hull... constant crashing as it falls off of waves. We ended up covering 800-ish miles in 79 hours, mostly with a 3 reefs in the main. Cool boat, just wish we'd had about half the wind/sea!

Boats that went north of us weren't as lucky... 3 people medvac'd, lots of damage to sails etc

Sorry there wasn't more of a story/flow to this... tired!


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## GeorgeB

The boat in the photo I a ¾ fractional rig, namely the headstay only goes up ¾ up the mast. The shrouds are a bit higher but the top is only supported by the backstay. This is by design to be flexible and you trim the main in part by bending the mast with the backstay adjuster. Putting in more bend for example, flattens the main giving you more control (and better sail shape) for higher winds. On our masthead rigged Catalina’s the mast is too thick to put a bend in it and the best we can hope for is pulling out the headstay sag with our adjusters. Unfortunately, those noodley fractional masts can bend too much and if the mast head moves out of column with the mast foot, the compression forces take over and wham! Down goes the rig. The running backstays are adjustable stays that attach to mast about 2/3 the way up and attach to the deck near the stern on each side. They have the biggest fiddle blocks on the boat so you can pull the mast back into column. You need to do this while beating and reaching. Running down wind, they get in the way and blocks the main from being eased out all the way. Because of this, they are detachable from the deck and you move them up to the shrouds when you turn down wind. You see them mainly on performance boats though they were on a Sabre I had my eye on recently. They are a PITA as you need a trimmer to release and set them during each tack. If you want to see your skipper stress, be slow on setting the new runner as he loads up the rig coming out of a tack.

My guess is the wind is blowing in the thirties on the photo based on the foam streaks. The boat looks like it is about 40’. The Aerodyne I used to sail on would start kicking up a rooster tail at about 20 kts. Hard to see in this photo, but I imagine they are going that speed or faster. Are they having fun? Sure, they’re probably young, professional, and have no monetary stake in the boat. For me, wouldn’t be that much fun. At those speeds and wind you are nano seconds away from a mistake that would crash the boat. The rudder is going in and out of stall all the time and the spinnaker trimmer is driving the boat as much as you are. It takes really big cajonnes to reattach water flow on the rudder when your every instinct is screaming in your head to turn the boat down!<O


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## smackdaddy

Ste - sweet BFS dude. And that "Donnybrook" looks like a sweet ride. Thanks for the link. Of course, beating into the teeth for 4 days sounds a bit harsh. One could possibly spill their martini. Bad mojo.

George - thanks for the runner-run-down and explanation of what they're dealing with. Man those dudes are ballsy. That is quintessential BFS as far as I'm concerned (as long as you don't crash).


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## smackdaddy

In reading some of Bob Perry's reviews of various production boats - I just ran across this quote by him - and it made me very happy.



> Everybody likes a stiff boat. But remember, you owe it to yourself to sail a narrow meter type - an Evergreen, PC, Dragon or my new boat, an Etchells - and experience the thrill of steering to weather from the lee side and trailing your fingers in that quarter wave rising just inches from your ear. There is the distinct sensation that you are sailing at 12 knots when the water is so close. *Go ahead, tip that "thang" over and feel like a sailor for a while.*


Now when he says it - it's gospel. Right on, Mr. Perry! You are THE MAN!


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## PCP777

smackdaddy said:


> In reading some of Bob Perry's reviews of various production boats - I just ran across this quote by him - and it made me very happy.
> 
> Now when he says it - it's gospel. Right on, Mr. Perry! You are THE MAN!


I have no idea who that dude is but his quote made me happy as well. Too bad there's no wind this afternoon....but Friday is supposed to be sustained over 20 knots....


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## smackdaddy

20 K=Good Day.

Bob Perry??? Dude! He's just one of the coolest freakin' nautical architects around! Here's a link to his site.

Have a good sail PCP.


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## mrwuffles

*Finally Got Out On The Hobie!!!*

Yesterday me and dad stepped the mast in the yard for a dry run to make sure we had everything needed to sail my new to me hobie 16, everything looked to be in pretty good shape for the price we got it at, the mast went up, the sails went up no problems at all and all seemed well, after that we helped out mom and since we did that I got to go sailing on mothers day. We had wind speeds of about 15 knots while we were sailing, here is a buoy from the sound
MYSound: Western Long Island Sound Buoy - Time Series it is in the middle but the location we were at had the wind coming right off the sound over the bay and right on to the beach. We got the boat down to a local beach and me and my older brother were able to rig up the boat alone w/o the help of dad, we finally get it all set and start out going on a reach down the beach, while I am hooked into the trapeze the mainsheet wiggles its way out of my hands and i lose it but it is stuck in the jam cleat, now you would think that is OK but it wasn't. We got a nice little gust and we are hobie virgins so we flew a hull for a few seconds and buried the bow and I went flying, all this hell cause the elastic which holds the trapeze from flapping around to snap and made it unusable, the cotton jib halyard also snapped and we were stuck pointed into the wind, we drift back to the beach and replace the haylard with nylon and the trapeze we tied up and we were good to go, me and my brother flew, had a few perfect tacks for us which was amazing since we had never sailed a beach cat before and we didn't even have to back wind the jib a couple times, overall it was a great sail and a great way to spend the weekend, And the water was perfect!


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## smackdaddy

Wuff, dude, you DID IT! Freakin' awesome!

So did you get catapulted on that pitch pole? Still have all your teeth?

Sweet BFS dude. It's great to see you finally sailing!


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## mrwuffles

Ya I'm fine, once we got used to it we were hauling ass, it wasn't hard enough of a jerk to completely throw me hard but it caught me off guard, I'll learn sooner or later.


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## smackdaddy

Well I'd say that's definitely a notch in the boom for the 2009 BFS Cup, dude.

Hey you still coming to the dinner next month? We just booked the last freakin' hotel room in Huntington. What's going on there in mid June? The placed is full!

I figured it was people flyin' in from all over the world to take a swing at me. So far I think I've pissed people off in like 6 different languages.

Later Wuff.


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## chall03

Only 6?? Damn. If only Sander O spoke Swahili


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## twinsdad

Smack Daddy, is that around the time of the US Open golf tournament? It is being held in nearby Bethpage this year. Any way, hope you get to enjoy our waters. I sail on LIS, but from CT, not Long Island.


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## nk235

Mr. Wuffles and Twinsdad or any of the other LI Sounders - you guys get to go sailing on Sunday when we had the small craft advisory? I had a little BFS action as I had brought my boat over to Smithtown for the weekend and needed to sail it back to Mt. Sinai harbor where I keep her on a mooring. The central sound buoy had 3.5-5.5 footers and winds gusting to 35 knts I can def say it was true! When leaving Smithtown bay we had an extreme close haul as we had to point more north than east trying to beat around Crains Neck before we could turn due east to make the run out to Mt. Sinai. That was exciting as we had a little bit of the jib unfurled and were crashing through waves at over 6knts. Had spray coming all the way over the dodger and it was so rough that my gf who has never gotten sea sick before and sails every where with me was about to barf over the side. Once we did round Crain's Neck we let more of the jib out and had a very nice and fast run past flax pond, Port Jefferson Harbor, the bluffs at Pirates Coves to the head buoy at Mt. Sinai. We then turned South towards the channel, jibed the now fully unfurled genny and shot into the channel and harbor at over 7.5 knts on a beam reach with a whole crowd of people on the pier watching us crash through at 30 degrees of heal. Wish I could have seen it from their perspective.

All in all it started off a little nerve racking when I first got out there and was pounding to weather with 5 footers crashing over the dodger and especially since we didn't see one other boat on the Sound the entire trip but once I cranked the stereo ipod to some tunes on my "storm playlist" (Bon Jovi's Dead or alive, Billy Joel's Downeaster alexa, Drop Kick Murphy's, etc.) we settled in and had one heck of a BFS!


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## smackdaddy

nk! You're a freakin' monster! Nice BFS dude!

Pounding through with the DKMs is about as good as it gets. I think you absolutely hit the nail on the head though with your last paragraph. When you hit that moment that it turns from fear to fun - you've acheived BFS nirvana.

Now that smells like teen spirit.

BTW - Twins, yes, same timing. But I should finish the last round before we head out to sail. And I can always pick up the trophy later. 

Look for me...I'll be the guy heckling Tiger about his lousy slice - and calling Jim Nance a sissy from the gallery.


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## Bene505

We need to pick a place to have dinner on June 19th, so we can get the word out. Huntington has a lot of places.

I'm still working on the boat Smack. I know, I know, it needs to be done in time. I may take a few days off to get a jump on things.


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## smackdaddy

No problem on the boat Bene. If it's not done in time I'll help you work on it (with an appropriate level of heckling of course). Then we'll just pile into Bubb's or Caleb's boat...or onto Wuff's hobie for hull fly! It's all good.


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## CalebD

Canterbury Ales was pretty nice to us the last time we all went there. Reasonably priced food, a nice selection of draft beers, centrally located etc.
If the Smackster's gastronomical preferences are more wide ranging Huntington also has a good Thai place, decent Indian place as well as several Italian places. 
...Fava beans with a nice Chianti... mmm ...


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## smackdaddy

CalebD said:


> Canterbury Ales was pretty nice to us the last time we all went there. Reasonably priced food, a nice selection of draft beers, centrally located etc.
> If the Smackster's gastronomical preferences are more wide ranging Huntington also has a good Thai place, decent Indian place as well as several Italian places.
> ...Fava beans with a nice Chianti... mmm ...


Stay the hell away from my liver, dude.


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## mrwuffles

nk235, that was the day, it was out of control in the morning but once we waited it out we had a steady 16-18 from the NE which wasn't too bad. It was a little bit intimidating since it was me and my brother's first time but we hopped on and figured it all out.


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## nk235

mrwuffles said:


> nk235, that was the day, it was out of control in the morning but once we waited it out we had a steady 16-18 from the NE which wasn't too bad. It was a little bit intimidating since it was me and my brother's first time but we hopped on and figured it all out.


Nice! Yeah it def was the day. I was just happy that after the first leg we had the wind on our stern. We left earlier in the day but once we got back and were getting in the car we saw from shore that the wind did die down a little bit but was still blowin like hell. Good for you guys on your first time. Each time you do it, it's still intimidating but each time you become a little more confident in your abilities and your boat and each time it gets a little more fun!

Where on the sound do you sail out of and what boat do you have? I'm guessing your further west?


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## twinsdad

I was home with Mom and the wife. Sometimes you have to put points in the bank!!!


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## mrwuffles

We sail northport bay, my current boat is only a hobie 16 but that is always changing with me, I go through a lot of boats, just haven't found one that I am really attached to I am also going to race a little bit on a larger boat


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## nk235

mrwuffles said:


> We sail northport bay, my current boat is only a hobie 16 but that is always changing with me, I go through a lot of boats, just haven't found one that I am really attached to I am also going to race a little bit on a larger boat


Oh nice. Northport is a really nice place. We usually bring the boat over to the town dock for a weekend once or twice during the summer. I love how it is right in the heart of town although I hate that it is not floating! With the over 6 foot tide range tying it up is never easy. I'm sure you will have a lot of fun with the hobie this year.


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## jaschrumpf

I think we all agree that a BFS doesn't necessarily involve extreme conditons of wind and sea, but can also include a sail that pushes the envelope of what a sailor has ever done with his boat. I had one of these tonight.

I have a 1975 Newport 28 with very vanilla rigging. I recently added a jib downhaul, but hadn't tested it yet until tonight. I really didn't want to singlehand alone for the first time; I wanted to have someone handy just in case my setup exploded into ruin and I needed immediate help. However, none of these plans came to fruition, and I found myself alone tonight and too eager to wait until later. It was an "edge" moment: could I handle what I was going to try without any backup?

In all honesty, it wasn't like I was facing extreme conditions: 15 mph winds on the Patapsco River were just about perfect for what I was going to do. So out I went.

The first thing I discovered is that my shock cord tiller tender couldn't hold the boat into the wind for very long. I idled down the engine and carefully pointed her into the wind to raise the main, but I didn't have it half way up before I noticed that the boat was falling off and the strain on the sail made it impossible to finish raising the main. I ended up making three big circles with the boat, raising the sail a bit more each time we came into the wind, until I had it up all the way. I can only imagine what I must have looked like to the other boaters coming out of the creek.

So once I had the main up I practiced with it a bit, tacking and gybing to get the feel of it, and I finally felt comfortable enough to decide to raise the jib. That was the mistake of the evening!

I just didn't have the right rig to handle the jib sheets. I was trying an experiment with the jib sheets coming right off the winches to the jib clew, with no blocks between, and it just didn't work. (As most of you could have told me, no doubt.) I only tried it because I saw a photo of a Newport 28 with that rig, but it was probably a primitive Photoshop effort, because it just didn't work at all. The photo was a fraud. The sheets either wrapped around the winch and locked up as if they were self-tailing winches, or the sheets just fell of the top of the winch.

So I struggled with the jib sheets for about an hour and a half, trying to figure out if there was any way to properly handle the boat with that setup. I finally abandoned the effort, and decided to drop the jib and main and motor back into the creek. 

Well, I must have looked like the most drunkked sailor ever on the Patabsco River as I zigged and zagged all over the river trying gto get the sails down. I'd love to see my GPS track, as the tiller tender still couldn't told the boat into the wind even with the engine going. All I needed was "Yakety Sax" playing in the background and the comedy would have been complete.

At least I didn't hit anyone, and I was able to get the boat back home with the sails down . There was lots of work doing that, and my new jib downhaul jammed 2/3 of the way down, requiring me to go forward Yet again with only the tiller tender guiding us. I probably looped around another 2 or 3 times while clearling that mess up. At least the engine ran wonderfully. (Thank you Moyer Marine!)

So my BFS was under ideal conditions on a river I knew very well, yet the envelope was pushed way beyond anything I'd done before. I know that the next time I go out alone I'll make a few changes, and hopefully that will make a big difference .


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## smackdaddy

Hey Schrumpf - I definitely think this rates, dude. Finding out what works and what doesn't it what it's all about in my mind. Yeah - maybe some salts were laughing at you over their D&Ss, but hell, you pulled it out of the slip and gave it go. And you even lived to tell the tale! So good on you.

However, I am a bit miffed that I'm now going to have the words "shock cord tiller tender" bouncing around my head all day to the tune of "Flatbush City Limits". Bastard.


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## smackdaddy

Hey - I've got to hype one of the best movies I've EVER seen on sailing: "Deep Water".

It's about the first non-stop-solo-circ race in 1968. Freakin' CRAZY story. I would highly recommend it to anyone and everyone - and probably will (like Dog with his JSD).


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## nk235

smackdaddy said:


> Hey - I've got to hype one of the best movies I've EVER seen on sailing: "Deep Water".
> 
> It's about the first non-stop-solo-circ race in 1968. Freakin' CRAZY story. I would highly recommend it to anyone and everyone - and probably will (like Dog with his JSD).


Smack - This was a good movie. I actually bought and watched it last year when it first came out on DVD. Also there is a book about it which I actually read first before I knew the movie even existed so it made watching the movie that much better.


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## smackdaddy

Jeez what a sad story. Talk about the universe lining up to make you pay for bad decisions.


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## nk235

Right! I watched it on my boat last summer on a rainy Sunday because we stayed the weekend on it and since it was Sunday did not want to go home yet so we figured to liven our spirits lets pop in this new movie! Well it was fun to stay on the boat longer but it did not liven our spirits!


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## Winderlust

*Stupid but Lucky!*

It happened one night, day after, Thanksgiving. The plan was to meet three buds of mine at my boat in Ventura Harbor, CA do a night crossing to Santa Cruz Island for a couple of days wasting away, on the hook, in Coches Prietos Cove. Leaving around 1 am would get us there about daybreak to set anchor, maybe 5 ½ hours.

The thinking was why waste half a day of drinking on the crossing over. We had scores of bottles of home brewed ales, porters and steams, concocted just for the trip, in 3 ice chests, low in the hold.

Problem was, a Santa Ana condition poked its head up and a Small Craft Advisory had been posted on the channel. My boat was a Pacific Seacraft 27' cutter rig, which is a very stout 27 footer. I had her out many times in SCA and had total confidence in her stability. We would have no clouds and a gibbous moon for half the crossing.

Loading her up in the slip, there was nary a ripple from anything offshore. I thought the warning a mistake, NOAA was cracked, and having never sailed in a Santa Ana, thought it a possible "E ticket" ride for my companions and me and damn-it, I wasn't going to lose this weekend on the island to fluky weather.

We motored past the red pendant at the Coast Guard around 12:30 am without a notice. The wind was definitely offshore but steady and quite under 10 knots. Outside the breakwater everything appeared normal and even subdued. The moon in our face was bright and lit up everything, the white boats in the harbor, the surrounding coastal mountains and the dark bright channel.

First, we shouldn't have been out there at all, no one else was. Second, we should have at least had a reef or two into the mainsail. About a mile out the offshore stiffened above 15 knots and I realized, the crossing was not going to be a calm night passage as others before. The problem was not just the wind. It was the building wind blown waves and their extremely short cycle. The farther from land the more fetch the Santa Ana's had to build ripples into tight steep waves, well defined and exact in their period.

At about 3 miles off-shore, the main and the staysail still fully up, the boat started tripping on its foot as these steep little 6' following waves rushed by. The helm was heavy and the boat wanted to broach. We pulled up and dropped the main completely. I wasn't going to ask my friends to climb on the wet trunk, at night, to help me reef the main and I was too scared to do it alone, so I dropped it and tied it down.

By now things had basically gotten out of hand. We were running with just the staysail in 30+ and the more we travelled the stronger the wind blew and higher were the waves. Land was no longer a hindrance to the offshore system. At about 2 am, and 8 miles out we began passing ¼ mile north of the Racon oil platform an enormous structure in 500+ft. of water depth and lit up like the Manhattan Skyline. This always marked, for me, the edge of the north bound shipping lanes and on that night it became our go into orbit or abort, abort, abort, demarcation.

I had two green sailors below and one who stayed so close to me I thought we were handcuffed together. He kept his eyes on my face to see if he should stay with the boat or not. I knew if anything should happen to this man, I better go down with the ship because his mother would have tracked me down, kidnapped and buried me alive.

For some reason I checked the bilge. I never check the bilge out sailing, but in all the excitement before we shoved off, I forgot to check the bilge. The boat was dry below and she was shedding water nicely on deck but when I lifted the bilge hatch it was backed up like a bad toilet about to overflow. [email protected]*! The auto pump main was off. Time to turn on the bilge pump and well&#8230; Time to turn the boat around and abort. One did not determine the other, but it did help chose the moment. It had occurred to me some time before that the anchorages normally safe from prevailing winds were all blown out by the Santa Ana. I couldn't imagine what cove could give shelter in that howl.

You should have seen the relief in my friends face when we came around. The others were below, alone with their misery. The boat was doing much better than we and could have managed the whole trip I'm sure, but it didn't have that crew. If, however, we lost the engine only one option remained.

The engine had been chugging along from the time we left. Now it was time to push it and claw our way back to safe harbor. If we had lost the engine we would have had to race broad to starboard and try and snag Santa Barbara Harbor at dawn. I did not want to do that; too many hours out and too many unknowns.

After about an hour, around 3am, we had made little progress away from the oil derrick, which seamed to mock us with its indifferent presence. And we had only about ½ hour of moonlight left. I had centered tight the staysail, as our goal was straight into the wind, we had stripped off the lee cloth and cleared everything that had windage, except the staysail which I thought gave stability. Time for it to come down&#8230; All hands on deck the captain is going forward. I needed one of the sick men to steer, as he was the only one with time at the helm. He came up cheerfully, savoring the special status bestowed on him.

The helm behaved ok if you hit the waves squarely stem on. The boat would hobbyhorse its way over and down ready for the next wall. But if you allowed directional drift, just a little, the steep waves slapped the nose over and the wind would catch the staysail and jerk the whole boat 30 degrees in yaw. To make matters worse, when you hit a wave the right way, the good way, the wave shape and wind created a crossfire of salt-water buckets aimed straight at the helmsman. So the helmsman was punished for every wave he approached correctly. Than before the next wave the warm wind would quickly dry the foam to a tacky salt grime, layer upon layer, of sticky burning slime. I found out old salt really means something.

In hind sight I didn't really need everyone on deck I just thought if I go over&#8230; more eyes? Hell these guys couldn't have recovered me under good conditions.

Using my "one hand for the boat and one for your self" preservation method and not necessarily in that order, I crawled forward to the mast, released the halyard and in the process almost lost the end of it, making me get much higher than I planed just to retrieve the teasing, dangling line. On my back, I slid forward down the trunk to the stay. With my legs splayed wide on the deck like a howitzer, I gathered the canvas down and attached it to the club with 4 hard stop-ties. I reversed my direction back the port side-deck and slid over the bulwark into the safety of the cockpit. My crew greeted me like a hero. They hadn't yet figured out I got us into it.

The moon crept down behind the smoky Santa Ana horizon and we were soon alone in the dark. Surprisingly the florescence in the breaking peaks gave way their position and motion and steering was not at all blind. As the engine droned on, often revving when the screw popped out of the wave crests, the lights of the oil platform and it's plume of gas burn-off, receded into the night. Just as we crossed the breakwater threshold into protected waters, the engine alarm screamed out. But it was too late; we were safe and only minutes from the slip. We tied up just before 9am. I literally looked like a pillar of salt. My goatee looked like a dirty icicle. I slept until dinnertime.

Like the man said I'd rather be lucky than good any day.


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## twinsdad

What's great about this story is your recognition of your mistakes and willingness to share it with others. What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Are the crew members still friends?


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## smackdaddy

Yo lust - that was seriously some well written BFS, dude. Great story - and great walkthrough of your thinking and processing.

Definitely a score for the Westies.


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## Winderlust

*Dreamin' of BFS*

Smack,

Once in a while, when I'm trying to get to sleep, that night pops up in my head, among other stupid things I've done, and I figure out "on paper" what I should have done and what I would have done if the engine gave out.

That was almost 20 years ago and I'm boatless now and can only live the life through sailnet and my memories. However, I'm soon to get hasty and pursue the "go small, go now" way of thinking. Diesel maintenance is also high on my list.

I have a 10 ft sloop dinky, which I can turn over in a blast, but it just ain't the same thing. Is it?

Mike


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## smackdaddy

Live the BFS dream dude! Then wrench on it when it hobbles back into port.

Sounds like a perfect plan.


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## GeorgeB

*Not quite a BFS*

Spent this past weekend over at Tiburon YC in Marin. Left Alameda early afternoon on Friday in order to meet a rising tide at TYC. As we were motoring out the Estuary, Mrs. B and I weren't feeling very "sporty" so decided to raise the main with one reef tucked in for a leisurely sail across the slot. Winds were light on the backside of TI and almost non-existent under the new Bay Bridge construction where we almost shook the reef out but toughed it out and ghosted along (with training wheels on!) Winds started to build almost immediately thereafter and by the time we got to mid slot they were an honest 25kts true with gusts on top of that. We were still flying our 130 genoa left over from the SSS-Corinthian race. And in short order, we were way over powered and hard over on our ear. Real Smackdaddy sailing - leeward decks awash, windward collecting water and the afterguard (me) continually drenched in spray. We were completely travellered down but still cupping water in the genny. The lower third of the sails and mast were completely in the splash zone. The tide was still ebbing against the wind in that part of the Bay, building up some nasty chop and hindering our speed as we continually broke through waves. Once behind Angel Is., the winds started to calm down and we had an uneventful remainder of the trip.

On Saturday, the heat wave settled in and we discussed swapping out to the blade, but figured that the heat would be around for a few days and there would only be light air for our return on Sunday. Sunday morning was still and we debated about leaving on the 8AM tide to clear the harbor but decided to wait, relax, and leave at four with the evening tide. All through the day, the winds steadily built, and by the time four came around, it was blowing twenty inside the marina! We required extra line handlers on the dock to control Freya so she wouldn't hit the other boats as we left. Whitecaps and wind streaks were on the waves in the lee of Tiburon so we decided to hoist sail in the lee of Angel. Only there was no lee, just 25kts of wind. Saw an old Alberg round up so violently that she auto tacked and with jib back winded, proceeded into an uncontrolled gybe which by all rights should have ripped her gooseneck right off. Needless to say, this time we left the main on the boom and rolled out a hanky sized jib. The wind on the trip back was in the mid thirties as the wind machine was turned up high. The radio crackled with numerous Pan-pan reports from the Coasties to be on the lookout for different boats in distress. I heard later that they did twenty rescues that day. We don't have a foam luff so the "hanky" had a heck of a belly which did its best to put us hard on our ear and with no pointing ability whatsoever. Consequently, with no steering groove, it was a fight to keep the boat going on a beam reach in all that chop. A couple of times, we too, almost got turned in the waves. But once again, behind the Bridge, the wind shut down to nothing and we motored the rest of the way home.

<OOur new tape drive main is marvelous but we are still dialing it in. It does like to be sailed flat and is happiest with the traveller up, even when reefed. Unfortunately, this necessitates the crew to be on the windward rail which is something Mrs. B is loath to do. We did have second reef points built in, but rigging the extra line that adds weight for racing so all that stuff is in the garage back home. In the summertime, it's a no brainer to keep the blade on the furler, and we should have believed the weather forecast that said fog at the gate on Sunday night (that and the hundred degree temps in the Central Valley is always a safe bet for big winds on the Bay). But we choose to believe the hyped up TV weather girl calling for four day heat wave in the Bay area. Live and learn.


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## smackdaddy

Those damn meth'd-out TV weather girls! They're like freakin' mermaids! Screw NOAA - she's cute!

NICE BFS GEORGE! Sounds like jumping from one foxhole to another. And I don't even want to know what "sporty" means. TMI, dude.

Can't wait to sail with you, man. I think I'm going to learn A LOT.


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## imagine2frolic

GeorgeB,

Sounds like an everyday sail once summer begins to approach. The Bay is such a fantastic place to sail. After a hard day's sail going down the Estuary is sweet!!!!!!! Sometimes I truly miss home......i2f


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## random42

smackdaddy said:


> The actual heresy is the teaching of fear, over-complication and technicality instead of the *adventure of actually sailing a boat, with the sails God gave it, in a good stiff breeze*.


The above caught my eye... (great thread btw).

I grew up sailing (mostly dinghies), and no one ever "taught" me (ok, I watched my dad), but mostly we just did it. When I recently started sailing here in the US, I had to go get some certifications. I sat the tests for BK and BC so I could go do BBC (bareboat cruising) as it sounded fun (it was) - so now I have 3 certs ;-) I only mention this to say that a well structured (and standardized?) sail training program is a nice thing to have, and it does seem to exist here. Mind you, John Rousmaniere's "Annapolis Book of Seamnanship" is a pretty good substitute.

Just to be on topic; a BFS (one of my most embarrassing ones - my excuse is I was probably only 14). We were out in a mirror (10' dinghy), wind was 20+ knots (guessing - it was 30+ years ago). We left the beach on a broad reach - going nice and quick... even quicker once we got out past the breakwater. After a while we decided to come about - but couldn't. Every time we tried, we lay on our side (yes we eased sheets ;-), we didn't go over but were on the brink. After a few tries, we decided we were simply not big enough for this wind (we were both on the small side), and to head for the lee of the breakwater a few miles downwind (there was a marina every few miles in that area). It was only after we'd landed and called my dad to come fetch us - that it occurred to me that raising the centerboard would probably have helped ;-)


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## smackdaddy

Hey random - welcome, dude. Look, a 10' dinghy in 20+...respect!

BTW - I'm going for my certs too. So I'm not one to harsh them. Just want to get past the hyper-conservative "dogma" of sailing and let it all fly a bit.


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## Winderlust

*Board Up or Down?*



random42 said:


> It was only after we'd landed and called my dad to come fetch us - that it occurred to me that raising the centerboard would probably have helped ;-)


Hey random, 

Don't you mean lowering the centerboard would probably have helped? I mean that's pretty much what the thing is there for, that and working up wind. 

One time in about 1986 I, a novice sailor, had my sister and her husband along in my 17' Montgomery out on So. Cal's Silverwood Lake, notoriously windy water. A wind gust took my brother-in-law's cap. We tacked back and forth trying to get that hat and we just couldn't seem to get up wind. The boat also felt extra rolley. On a close pass, because I felt responsible, I jumped in to retrieve it. I swam like crazy to climb back aboard on the next close pass. About 10 minutes later and after all the hassle, I realized the 700 lb centerboard was still up. Duh... It might help a little to put the board down. And it did.


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## random42

Winderlust said:


> Hey random,
> 
> Don't you mean lowering the centerboard would probably have helped? I mean that's pretty much what the thing is there for, that and working up wind.


No, I meant up - was thinking the extra leeway we would have made would have made it easier to keep her up while we came about, then we'd put it down again.

Bottom line, we were probably too little (the boys not the boat) to be out in those conditions.


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## sailortjk1

Hey Smacky, I got one for ya.
Went out Sunday with the wind blowing like stink out of the North. On Michigan that means three hundred miles of fetch. My guests on board invited a guest, so the first guest said "It doesn't look too rough," as we were leaving the harbor and headed to the outer breakwall. I knew better, I say, "Just wait till we clear the breakwall." Again he says something about how it doesn't look "That Bad." 
Julie (my wife) asks me if I want the dodger closed up, me seeing my guest sitting there who is saying its "Not so bad", I say no leave the dodger open hoping to teach my guest a lesson. 
Not fifteen minutes later we take water from the bow to the cockpit. Only problem was that it missed the intended target.
Of course after that the dodger was closed.
Beating back in to port, we hit a wave with the bow just right and I am telling you, that sucker shot up into the air ten feet over the deck.
I was thinking my good friend Smacky would be enjoying this.


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## smackdaddy

Awww TJ - I am in tears! That is freakin' beeeeaaaaaautiful! And I especially love the part about teaching the "guest" a lesson. Must have been a real blowhard. Man, I can't STAND those kinds of people!

Nice sailing, dude. I wish I could have been there.

I'm thinking you were diggin' it too, eh?


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## sailortjk1

This was right after poor Lynnda got hit with the friendly fire.
It was her first time sailing on a larger body of water.


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## bubb2

Glad to hear you had a good time Tim! Ya, it ain't sailing unless you are taking water over the bow.


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## sailortjk1

Hey Mike, I was thinking of you and Courtney as well this weekend.<O</O
We attended a wedding in Chicago; the ceremony was in Grant Park at the "Cancer Awareness" pavilion. Of course, I could not help but be moved by it.


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## bubb2

I was thinking of you and Julie also this weekend! A year ago, I had a Million dollar view of the harbor! Has it been a year already?


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## smackdaddy

I might have said this before - but I'll say it again. Sailing freakin' rocks. We were out all day today. A steady 10-15 knots, the missus at the helm, the 170 cranking us along, the jolly roger flappin' in the breeze, the kids playing in the cabin, some sweet tunage, and some grog in the cup. 

Anchored, chunked the kids over the lifelines and explored Sometimes Island with them. Found buzzard skulls, shells, "cool rocks", mask and snorkel, and a giant piece of styrofoam that became our own floating FightClub. Watched the sun set. Sweet.

Nothing epic, just sailing with the family. This is what life is all about fellas. Of course it's even better when dippin' a rail - but hey...


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## Blue Eagle

nothing like some of you folks have seen in terms of wind speed, but sailing out of HK with 1 reef in the main, plus 150% genoa (120% is what was needed, but alas none on board) wind maybe 20 knots, gusting 25.









not dramatic, but I blame the helmsman  The boat's a "Douglas 32" a-like by Ted Brewer, out of Cape Yachts HK...


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## smackdaddy

Eagle! Dude! That's beautiful! Nice boat - big freakin' sailing.

Thanks for the pics!


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## Blue Eagle

smackdaddy said:


> Eagle! Dude! That's beautiful! Nice boat - big freakin' sailing.
> 
> Thanks for the pics!


A pleasure Smack  - BFS would have been the time three weeks earlier when I was sailing with a dinghy-maniac mate (wayfarer in the teeth of an oncoming typhoon) and his missus with two reefs in the main and the No.4 "yankee" up (~ 70% of foretriangle) and we were STILL washing the windows. She's tender alright, but tough  and in the groove around 30 degrees of heel (long overhangs) at 50 though, you're over cooking it ) we don't get much swell here on account of HK's outlying islands - I think the most I've seen and sailed in is 10 feet or so and we were just smashing along at 6.5 knots uphill and touching 8 downhill. I've never had the trysail or storm jib out of the bags and on deck - I've had life jackets on a few times though, and thought about changing down to the hankies once or twice - then I remind myself to "man up sally" and that this boat has been around at least once, and a sister boat rode out a typhoon in the South China Sea... not deliberately I imagine 

Matt


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## PalmettoSailor

My last 3 sailing trips have been awesome, each in their own way. 3 weeks ago we had guests down on our boat and sailed over 25 miles just messing about. We sailed from Broad Creek, tacked around Stingray Point and into Fishing Bay where we had lunch, then gybed our way back around and headed up the Rappahannock where we sailed a straight line close hauled all the way up past the Norris bridge and into the Corrotoman River where we anchored for dinner intending to stay the night. The forecast was for isolated thunder storms, so after dinner I checked the weather again on my XM equipped GPS. WTF, It looked like a giant yellow and red monster was coming to attack us. This line of storms extended from southern PA southwest into NC. These were no isolated storms, so we decided to haul a$$ and motor back down the River to our slip, figuring there was less risk in entering Broad Creek at night than there was taking on a storm like that at anchor. I let my guest helm the boat down the River, until we turned to enter our creek and he was beaming the whole way. The creek entrance was stressful but uneventful using a light on the foredeck to spot the ATONS and we had the boat secured in her slip at around 11PM. The weather got there about 2 hours later. While I had hoped to have these folks experince a peaceful night on the hook, I think they really enjoyed the experience, at least the husband really did. lol

The next week I crewed a Tartan 40 for the 60th running of the "Down the Bay Race" from Annapolis to Hampton. This was my first race of that distance and the first race that required overnighting on the boat underway though I've done night races in the past and have navigated my boat at night. The race proved to be a beat all the way down the Bay (120 miles) with winds from 10-20 knots, most consistently around 15kts. At the start of the race we got a fly-by then a fly over by the Blue Angels who were reconning for the next days airshow as part of the Naval Academy Graduation. Then near evening when we were near Pax River Naval Air Station, we again saw the Blue Angels this time doing a full Airshow which I assume was a practice for the graduation. As day faded into night the wind built into the 20's and the waves built into the classic Chesapeake Bay chop averaging 4 feet or so with the occasional brute that would blast spray everywhere and really wash the foredeck. I turned in at midnight and came back on for a 4 am watch. (The following was snipped from my post re: the race elsewhere on this site) I will have the memory of my 4am stint at the helm, close hauled in a steady 18-20 knots on a moonless night for a long, long time. The shooting stars sparking across the constellations like fireflies, as the boat moved effortlessly from my slight corrections at the helm kept me in awe, inspite of my weariness. Occasionally, the navigation lights of a fellow racer would appear, sometimes just to recede in the darkness as we crossed tacks, other times hovering with us, until one boat or the other tacked away again to once again become a solitary speck under the canopy of the Milky Way. Just an amazing experience. 

This past weekend my wife and I got out on the boat alone for the first time this season. Winds started out at a nice 11kt and we set sail for the Great Wicomico River. Of course the wind went light and fluky as soon was we rounded Windmill Point. The wife had the helm for the entire trip and really learned a lot about how this boat handles sailing a deep reach, then turning in towards the River to sail wing and wing DDW until a final turn put us on a reach to the anchorage at Sandy Point, which is among the nicest anchorages we've visted thus far. We enjoyed a nice dinner and watched the sunset before turning in. When I awoke all was calm and we set about preparing breakfast. About the time the coffee was ready I noticed the boat had started "horseing" back and forth across the anchor. What's up with that? I flip on the instruments and climb into the cockpit to see peak winds nearing 25kts at the mast and notice menacing looking clouds as far as the eye can see. Good job mister weather man. No mention of anything like this in the forecast. Crap, if its doing that in this well protected anchorage what's it doing out on the bay? We gulped down our coffee got the hook up, hauled up the main and started motor sailing back out to the Bay. We were getting quite a push from the main and it steadied the boat nicely. Before exiting the river we heard a boat ahead of us report a gust of 30kts!!! Oh dear, what to do? Things were fine where we were, so I decided to leave well enough alone until I could see conditions on the bay myself. I was anticipating a sporty beat back home at the very least. By the time we reached the bay entrance the same boat that reported the 30kt gust was reporting they were about three miles ahead of me and the wind had died to nothing. Nothing is exactly what we found when we entered the bay. Zero wind but 4-5' Chesapeake Chop, I guess whipped up by the earlier short duration event and there was clearly a rain storm approaching us. Shortly thereafter, we were in full foulies in a steady rain for the next 2 or so hours as we slowly hobby horsed under iron genny and main. Of course as Broad Creek came in sight the sun came out, the waves settled and the winds filled in to match the rosey forcast. As we were heading in, I dropped the main on deck then threw one sail tie on so I could see to enter the creek. As we motored in, we passed boat after boat headed out for a nice day sail in perfect conditions. They must have thought we were nuts in our foulies and sails in a bunch on such a perfect day. Still in all it was a good sail and my wife got to spend a lot of time on the helm in challenging sailing conditions which I think really helped her confidence in handling this boat.


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## smackdaddy

Blue Eagle said:


> A pleasure Smack  - BFS would have been the time three weeks earlier when I was sailing with a dinghy-maniac mate (wayfarer in the teeth of an oncoming typhoon) and his missus with two reefs in the main and the No.4 "yankee" up (~ 70% of foretriangle) and we were STILL washing the windows. She's tender alright, but tough  and in the groove around 30 degrees of heel (long overhangs) at 50 though, you're over cooking it ) we don't get much swell here on account of HK's outlying islands - I think the most I've seen and sailed in is 10 feet or so and we were just smashing along at 6.5 knots uphill and touching 8 downhill. I've never had the trysail or storm jib out of the bags and on deck - I've had life jackets on a few times though, and thought about changing down to the hankies once or twice - then I remind myself to "man up sally" and that this boat has been around at least once, and a sister boat rode out a typhoon in the South China Sea... not deliberately I imagine
> 
> Matt


Ladies and gentleman - we have a new BFS battle cry:

*"man up sally"*


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## Barquito

*BFS -- once removed*

OK here is the bastard child of a BFS... The Big Freakn' tender-rowing-to-moored-sailboat.

I am a lake sailor, but, when we are on the lee shore of a strong wind the chop builds up enough that rowing my home built 6' dinghy out to the moored sailboat can be the most adventersome part of the day. The last time out it was blowing at steady 25kt and we were getting spray over the bow of our fine plywood craft. After rowing agaist wind and waves for at least twice as long as usual we arrived at our boat. Getting aboard is actually not too bad. Just wait for a wave to lift the dinghy a bit more than the boat and were were about launched into the cockpit. After getting the dinghy tied off at the stern, I started the motor, then, moved the dinghy to the pin. I think the dinghy must have gotten sucked into a trough and went under the bow of the sailboat a bit. The added tension snapped the (admittedly) crappy line I was using for a painter. We watched our poor little dinghy go sailing off downwind without us. I think it actually made it to the beach faster that we could have on our sailboat at full throttle, it was MOVING! All ended well. We just motored to the peir, walked over to the beach and retrieved our wayward dink, and rowed it back.

BTW, the sailing wasn't too bad after that.


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## smackdaddy

Bastard children and wayward dinghies are always welcome in this house!


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## PCP777

I had two good sails last weekend, not sure if they qualify as BFS but they were cool to me. 

First we went racing on an 84 Olson 30, winds were 15 to 25 kts. As soon as we left the harbor the wire outhaul snapped. We were able to jury rig it with the flattener (?). So we are headed down wind to get to the area where the race was going to be and we raised the spin, got over 10kts. Things were going smooth until we had a wind shift that nearly broached the boat, with the tip of our mast just about 4 to 5 feet off the water. WOOOOHOOO!!!! We ended up placing 3rd in the race out of 7 boats, we didn't take the favored tack whihc sucked but it was still fun to sail. I got to take the helm all the way back and we were burying the leeward deck, what a nice boat. 

After the race was done, we went to my C-25 and took her out. We had like 8 people on board as we had invited our powerboat slip neighbors. Didn't plan on that many but oh well, we have plenty of life jackets. Even though it was still very windy I chose my 130 which was a bad choice as it soon over powered the boat and people got scared. So we took the foresail down and sailed like that for about a half hour until I couldn't stand it any longer. We were making less than 2 kts. So I had my girl hank on the 110 and BOOM, we were in business. One of the guys sailing with us is a huge man and he became my secret weapon in terms of displacement. Once I got everyone how they need to be with legs hanging down on the windward side we started ROCKING. I actually pulled 6.9 kts out of my little Catalina, which broke my previous speed record of 6.3 kts.


So to me, a couple BFS's. I even had everyone yelling this phrase on my boat! I think I might have converted the powerboaters, they had a blast as well.


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## smackdaddy

Man that sounds like a smokin' day PCP! When you've got rails buried, speed in the double digits under spin, shattering records, and converting stinkpotters into railmeat...THAT'S BFS, DUDE!

I would have been in tears to hear the battle cry. Well done man.


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## PCP777

smackdaddy said:


> Man that sounds like a smokin' day PCP! When you've got rails buried, speed in the double digits under spin, shattering records, and converting stinkpotters into railmeat...THAT'S BFS, DUDE!
> 
> I would have been in tears to hear the battle cry. Well done man.


I might have gotten the battle cry off, just a tad bit. We weren't saying "freakin'"

it was a tad saltier....:laugher


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## smackdaddy

heh-heh. Shut yo mouth!


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## smackdaddy

Not that I'm paying attention or anything - but I just noticed that our little freakfest has just busted 50K!

I....I...don't know what to say....thank you....all....from the bottom of my ****zu.....I can't go on.....


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## smackdaddy

So there I am - puking over the stern rail of the ferry _Miss New York_, caught in raging chop and 30+ knots of howling Hudson fury. As I pull myself back into an upright position in the shadow of our beautiful Lady Liberty, and my heckling 5 year old kid who's standing perfectly still eating a corndog - I see in the distance, beating through the horizontal mist and whitecaps, a sailboat in the bay. It's flying full sails, on it's ear, and rounding up violently every 20 yards. Naturally, I'm impressed. BFS, dude.

Hopefully, that was a Sailnetter. If so, kudos, to you my friends. I hope to see your tale soon.

I love yous Easties!

(Don't worry Bubb - just kidding about the puking part.)


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## saildork

Hey Smack, where's Oceangirl? She was supposed to tell us about her 15 hour battle with 60 knot winds. (or was it 80?) How do we get her out of hiding?


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## smackdaddy

I don't know. Wouldn't mind seeing that tale either. 80 knots is pretty righteous.


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## twinsdad

We love you Westies too!


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## smackdaddy

*The BFS Easties Throwwwwwdowwwwwwwn*

Okay - three words: Easties Freakin' Rock!!

Definitely a helluva time!

First dinner with Bene and Caleb on Friday night. Everything was fine until, right in the middle of the pub, they pulled something that will give me nightmares for years to come...a little thing they called the "brownie sandwich". You NY guys need some serious therapy. I'm just sayin'.

I'm getting nauseous just thinking about it again. We don't do that kind of thing down in Texas - at least not in public. I had no idea people were that flexible. I checked the papers today to see if Maxine was okay. Nothing.

Anyway, that little incident got us immediately BANNED from the restaurant. A couple of patrons were sobbing - others applauding as we were thrown out into the street. So we dusted ourselves off and headed over to Bene's hard-bound-big-ass boat for some drunken guffaws and an imaginary BFS to some fine reggae.

Seriously great guys - seriously great time.

Then a KILLER sail yesterday with Bubb and his son where I learned a ton and had a freakin' blast. Great wind, a VERY sweet Bene which sails way better than my C27, and beautiful scenery. He even let me try to dock that ride. It really doesn't get better than that - ever. It was more than an honor - and on Father's Day no less. He's the man.

Thanks for a great time guys. I owe you one.

Photos coming soon!


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## bubb2

Thank you for the kind words, Smack!


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## smackdaddy

As promised....an appropriate "aura" if I do say so myself!










Now you Easties get the hell out there and SAIL!!!! We only have 6 months 'til the next BFS Cup!


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## painkiller

I found a picture of Smack on the Internet that doesn't block out his face.


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## bubb2

I know I going to regret this! OK, do tell, What is a brownie sandwich.


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## CalebD

The 'brownie sandwich' is just another juvenile joke. It really was a dessert dish. 
No brawls, no getting 86'd from the restaurant.
Everything was quite civil even if a bit inebriated.
I am glad to hear that Mike was able to take Mr. Smacky out on his Beneteau on the Hudson. He is a bit different in person then just on the web - he is in marketing after all.
I'm pretty sure i broke a finger nail at least.
Man overboard!


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## sailingdog

That explains so much.... 


CalebD said:


> I am glad to hear that Mike was able to take Mr. Smacky out on his Beneteau on the Hudson. He is a bit different in person then just on the web - *he is in marketing after all.*
> I'm pretty sure i broke a finger nail at least.
> Man overboard!


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## smackdaddy

OkaY - so...holiday weekend...nutty weather...what did we get? Anyone pull one down?????

Me? Nice sail on Friday morning. 10-15 knots. Nice and mellow. Burned the HELL out of my back while showing off my "ab". Not at all bad - but not BFS.

Looks like donhaller had a sweet sail and enjoyed some cotton mouth. Great job bro!

Who else? Surely we had at least ONE SiNcity denizen throw out the JSD. Anyone....anyone??? Bueller??


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## Bene505

Smack, today on Long Island sound, the winds were 20-25, we sailed out of the harbor without engine and then back in with only a couple of engine moments. The route is shaped something like a question mark, so we enjoyed those little boosts. Really a great sail. We got a chance to reef the jib, and used the traveller to reduce heeling.

For those on the November BF-Delivery, we did have the chips and salsa out, and the salsometer was reading a lot of heel.

We took turns at the helm and had an absolute blast. I have a picture in the camera. Guess you'll have to wait until winter. Too much to do right now.


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## bubb2

On the 4th we ( my son Michael 12 years old, my attorney buddy Allen and myself) decided we would sail down to the New York Harbor to see the Macy fireworks. The last time I had gone down to the harbor for the fireworks was 8 years ago when my daughter Courtney was 15 and I swore I would never go back again. Due to the boat traffic and the Idiots driving them. But My son really wanted to see them in person, so being the over indulgent father that I am, we made plans to leave the dock at 4pm. 

My son and I arrive at the marina a little after 3 pm. Before we get to our boat, one the boat club members stops on the dock and says, "you are not going out today are you?" I told him we were planing to go see the fireworks. He says, "Mike it is blowing and rough out there, I would not go out." It was blowing a bit, 15 to 20 knots, but not like the club member was trying to make it out.

Allen shows up shortly thereafter and we head out down the Hudson under a full jib and reefed main making 6 1/2+ kts toward the city. Our trip would be just over 62 km down and back.

We get to the harbor a little after 8pm and the harbor is very crowded. The USCG had the river blocked off about the 59th street boat basin. 

The fireworks started at 9:20 pm and were spectacular. For those of you that have never seen them I would highly recommend that you do.

The fireworks were over at 10 pm and we started back North. By now the wind had died down so we were motoring at 6 kts. Being passed by every motor boat on the river heading North. I am talking hundreds if not thousands of boats. Boats with out navigation lights weaving in and out of other boats doing 20 to 30 knots. The Harbor was getting very rough with the wakes of all the boats.

There we were getting tossed about by all the wakes hitting us. Wakes hitting us from all sides and the stern. These wakes were building to 4 to 5 feet. This is why I had not been back for 8 years.

Allen my buddy, says to me that he is glad we are not on his boat because "we would be getting wet."

(This is the BFS part)

5 min's later, 2 large power boats are coming up us from behind. One on port and the other on starboard. They are moving along about 15 kts and throwing huge wakes. They pass us 10 yards to each side. I am behind the wheel and I yell to everyone to hang on. Their wakes meet behind our stern and are moving forward in a perfect V about 6 feet high. I feel the stern of our boat lift. I am not sure when it going to stop rising. Then all of the sudden the boat falls off to starboard. We hit the bottom of that trough with a thud and about at 30 to 45 degree angle. The next thing I saw was another 5 foot wake rolling in and coming over the lifeline and hitting Allen square from the neck down, as he was sitting on the starboard cockpit seat.

Now I am a compassionate man. But this was just to much! Knowing that the river temp is only 60 degrees or so. I could not help myself, I am laughing hysterically! He is cussing at the power boats and I am laughing harder! I had not laughed like that in almost 2 years. 

While I am laughing at Allen, I notice that my soda was still sitting in it's koozie on the seat next to Allen. I say to Allen "what are you bitching about, I didn't even spill my soda." I then pick up my soda to add insult to injury and take a big gulp. I get nothing but a mouth full of Hudson river water and spit it out and spray it all over Allen. 

Now Allen is madder than H, I am laughing even harder and my son is laughing at both of us. We were still laughing about it when we got back to the marina at 2:30 in the morning.

It was a 4th of July we will never forget.


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## smackdaddy

And with this, the Easties have just taken the lead for the "2009 BFS Cup". Great story Bubb. I wish I could have been there!


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## bubb2

smackdaddy said:


> I wish I could have been there!


Smack, my words didn't and couldn't do it Justice. ( yes, that was a Attorney pun) I wish you were with us also. You would have written it up much better than I and you would still be laughing. It was that funny!


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## smackdaddy

This BFS story is just too classic. Okay, maybe ill-advised, poorly executed, and freakin' dangerous...but moxie-soaked nonetheless. And he got some good advice and commiseration in his thread. So it's all good.

TravisT - you got moxie, dude. I wish you had a pic of yourself holding your flailing outboard by the throttle. Hilarious.

Score one classic for the Lakies (Sway, your team's finally on the board):



TravisT said:


> So i finally got my own boat and took her out today for the first time... enjoy the story.
> 
> alright so we get the boat out there all is good... get her in the water fine. push off the dock, motor out a little ways and raise the main and the jib. All is going good were pretty much just trial and error figuring the wind out. So we do this for like 3-4 hours find a nice little cove with a beach for next time and decide to head back in about 4 oclock. We've kinda just been runnin with the wind (away from the marina and boat ramp) and decide to be lazy and take the sails down and just motor her back in. We get the motor started but about 5 min later it dies for some reason. So we decide not to be lazy raise the jib back up and sail her in. Well we're not the best sailors yet. Next thing we know where slowly buy surely heading into the dam. Try the motor again still not turning over. So about 10 min later and a pretty decent impact my boat is getting thrashed againts a rock dam. There's not a boat in site to come help us and we have zero ideas. waters coming over the portside, lines are everywhere, stuffs breaking it was bad. We end up just getting out of the boat and chilling on the rocks as i watch my new toy get thrashed against the rocks. It'd be abotu an hour walk back to the marina so that's our last option. I got back on the boat to grab a shirt or something and try the motor again. It fired up! So as my brother and my freind are pushing me off i somehow get about 100 yards away from the dam under motor. What do you know the wooden part that connects the motor to the boat snaps and i grab the engine to save it from sinking to the bottom of the lake. so now i'm screwed... again. My brother and my friend are still on the damn. I'm in the middle of the lake. i drop anchor and ditch the boat and swim to my brother and friend. just as were about to hike it back to the marina we see our rescue boat on the horizon. i swim back out to my boat and hook up the towline to get towed in. The rudder had some damage while getting thrashed agianst the rocks so i'm litterally holding the rudder in the water (which is reaaally really hard) while were getting towed back to the marina. As i'm getting towed away i see a cop picking up my brother and friend. 30 min tow ride later were at the marina. we get the trailer ready. We had quite the time getting her back on the trailer because my truck hitch sits pretty high and i haven't gotten a drop down hitch yet so the back end of the trailer kept getting caught. About an hour later (and some help from some mroe expirienced boaters) we got her all hooked up and finally got her home. We finally got home around 9:00. We started heading in at 4:00. Haha. Some how we got outa this thing with no tickets which is a mircale casue she's not registered yet and all we had were 3 lifejackets.Overall it was a great day adn i still had a lot of fun.
> 
> Things that broke/need fixed:
> Rudder
> Motor Mount
> 2 Iphones
> 1 Blackberry
> my pride haha


----------



## smackdaddy

*Insane!*

From the best television show on the planet..._"Deadliest Catch"_. Here's a crazy wave sequence. Bear in mind that this is a 155' fishing vessel - and a 40' wave.

Think about being in your sailboat (drogue or chute...who gives a damn) and trying' not to soil your foulies while staring this thing in the face...


















































































Respect to these guys. No doubt.


----------



## painkiller

Did you see the footage from the previous week(s) where the Wizard was nailed by a wave that took out half the crew? Broken ribs, busted up faces. It was nuts. The skipper was nervous about going back out after dropping off his injured at the hospital. I don't blame him.


----------



## bubb2

smackdaddy said:


> Think about being in your sailboat (drogue or chute...who gives a damn) and trying' not to soil your foulies while staring this thing in the face...


In a breaking sea there is no place to run or hide! And I don't care what Uncle Albert has to say.


----------



## smackdaddy

Pain - yeah I forgot about that one. Same boat knockin' back two 40's on the same trip. I'll see if I can find a cap of that first one.

Bubb - yeah, Seabrake, JSD, ParaAnchor, whatever...like it matters at that point. I swear it gives me butterflies just thinking about it.


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## smackdaddy

A BFS stolen from Tommays and MrWuffles...



tommays said:


> It was a rock and roll day with what was suppose to have been 15 knots out of the perfect direction BUT upped the game to to 18 to 22+ all day in just the WRONG direction
> 
> We had a nice spinnaker start and were really rolling and staying with the big guys when it picked up to 22 and went to far forward and started knocking the whole fleet down So we headed down and doused the chute and kept on trucking with the main and jib and covered 18 miles in a bit over 2 hours
> 
> We had on insane minute when a Santa Cruz 52 from spin 3 felt the need to get knocked down about 40 feet from us while passing at about 15 knots
> 
> Then we had to get home the OTHER 18 miles which took 3.5 hours with a wave breaking over the boat about every 11 seconds
> 
> mr and myself are doing the 190 mile Around long island race on July 22 on Zzzoom so he has a better idea about misery on the rail now


You guys seriously rock!

So the Easties are eatin' it up in '09. Where are you Westies?


----------



## twinsdad

So when you start your sailing season on July 12th, any sail is a BFS. In that regard, Long Island Sound with 15 kt winds was beautiful yesterday. Taking my light boat, with just the genoa out was great fun. Even the wife approved! No awards, but it put a smile on my face. So go out and enjoy even the mild ones (as opposed to the wild ones).


----------



## CharlieCobra

smackdaddy said:


> A BFS stolen from Tommays and MrWuffles...
> 
> You guys seriously rock!
> 
> So the Easties are eatin' it up in '09. Where are you Westies?


Refitting our boats.....


----------



## GeorgeB

*Just another day in paradise*

Double handed with Mrs. B last weekend on SF Bay. 30 kts sustained winds in the slot with gusts over that. Flew the blade and full main. Would have reefed, but was having too much fun. Besides, the new tapedrive main really likes strong breezes. Big flood tide so the chop was down, making for fast conditions. Nothing to surf but we were able to sail at hull speed. Couldn't talk her into flying the kite however. Perhaps next weekend. I'll write again when something noteworthy happens.


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## smackdaddy

Two words...Team Ice:



TeamICE said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> We've made a video, from our last race, that we would like to share with you all! We had great fun, as you can see in the video!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're are sailing a Brøker 28, also knows as Juwel 28 - with a weight of only 1200kg... It was blowing up to +35 knots, so there was no time to relax.
> 
> Hope you'll all enjoy our video, if so - give it 5 stars, thanks!
> 
> Team ICE


You guys rocked the house! Giu's boat couldn't even go this fast!


----------



## johnshasteen

smackdaddy said:


> You guys seriously rock!
> 
> So the Easties are eatin' it up in '09. Where are you Westies?


SmackD, the Westies are here - speaking of which, in the fall (it's too hot now), we will probably sail Paloma from Corpus up to Freeport over a weekend - I'll let you know when - you need to make plans to go with us. Hopefully it won't be as BFS as our first run at going from Port isabel to Freeport last year.


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## smackdaddy

It's a deal, John. Just let me know when. Hopefully I'll have a boat in the slip next to you by that time!

PS - GeorgeB, it's great to see you back in the hunt dude! I'm still wanting to get out to SF - but this recession is crimping my jet setting lifestyle. I'll figure something out. I've gotta pull one down with you, man!


----------



## CalebD

We all take some calculated risks now and then. This was just a nice night sail I did with some friends. Smacky can market it as a BFS but it was just a great time no matter what you call it.
I was to join 3 old high school sailing buddies on a friends Endeavor 32' for a sail on the Chessy last Friday (7/10). The only problem was that the diesel engine was not working but with a crew of 4 experienced sailors we were determined to do it the old fashioned way - with canvas and wind only.
After provisioning the boat we finally began wrestling the boat out of it's slip around 9 PM in a southerly breeze which was not a helpful direction for getting out. A line was used to help pull the bow into the wind and we set sail in the narrow creek of the Rhode River trying to tack out towards the bay. We found the bottom fairly quickly and quickly got off again.
The full moon this July was on the 7th so since this was the 10th the moon rose around 9:30 PM as we reached the open waters of the Bay. We were ostensibly headed for St. Michaels so we sailed east across some bouncy waves under a rising waning moon. The temperature was perfect and the wind was quite willing to push us along but it began to get late and my other 3 companions began to sneak away from the cockpit, one at a time, to grab some shut eye. 
I was using my GPS to get our coordinates and plot them on the chart we had. This was the only way we could accurately find our position on the chart since it was fairly dark in spite of the nearly full moon. 
By the time it started getting light towards the east we were dropping the hook near the mouth of the Wye River. I snoozed in the cockpit until nearly noon before we got back under way again. 
The wx forecast was sounding a bit ominous and they did get some hail and bad storms around Philly but all we got was some 20 - 25 knot southerly winds as we pounded back over the Bay. We thought we would anchor in the Rhode River for the night just in case things got nasty, we would be close to our slip.
I have to admit that I was a bit exhausted from staying up for nearly 21 hours so I let the other guys wrestle with the wheel as we pounded over the waves. The hail, rain and thunderstorms predicted by the wx failed to materialize and we spent a pleasant night on the hook.
The next afternoon we were able to sail perfectly back into our slip in light airs. 
True to form, we debugged the engine after getting back from our excursion and the internal water pump was shot at the bearings. That will have to be cleaned up and replaced.
No gelcoat was harmed during this exercise.


----------



## smackdaddy

CalebD said:


> ...but all we got was some 20 - 25 knot southerly winds as we pounded back over the Bay...


Caleb, dude, how did I miss this one? Sorry man. This is my favorite part of the story. You are a true BFS sailor my friend!


----------



## CalebD

Smack,
It was way fun but scary to do it the old fashioned way with no motor at all on a nearly 5 ton sailboat. Of course we had a GPS, charts, radio and cellphones (no laptops or internet) along with the nearly full moon at night.
I forgot to mention that there may or may not have been hurling aboard the vessel; 1 incident purportedly due to a bad shrimp, 1 from sea sickness, 1 from too much alcohol and not enough food?
What is up with that?


----------



## painkiller

Anybody see Deadliest Catch last night? Holy crap, some of that footage was amazing. Those guys get caught out in hurricane-force winds. They teased next week's show which will include a boat getting tossed upon the rocks in the storm and the USCG attempting a rescue. 

Oh, and Capt. Keith from Wizard cries again. So does that one skipper that is partners with Capt. Phil. He's always been a bit of a weeper too, though.

But the footage of the seas from that storm is incredible.


----------



## smackdaddy

I'll check it out. Man, that Keith cries more than my sister. And she cries at clowns!

Of course, judging by the storm you describe, I'd be crying like a WizardCaptain too. No doubt.


----------



## bubb2

Sig is the Man! Remember, the Northwesten is a single screw boat. Big Gonads! A engine alarm on a twin screw boat is one thing, a engine alarm on a single screw boat is quite another.


----------



## painkiller

bubb2 said:


> Sig is the Man! Remember, the Northwesten is a single screw boat. Big Gonads! A engine alarm on a twin screw boat is one thing, a engine alarm on a single screw boat is quite another.


Man, Sig was _evil_ on last night's episode. He set the clocks ahead an hour so the guys would think they got an extra hour of sleep! Evil!


----------



## bubb2

You got to love, Sig! Work en till they drop and If they drop find someone else.


----------



## Dirtboy

Newbie to the forum here, and I didn't read all 130 some pages so I hope this isn't old stuff.

Some of my best sailing times were on the Hobie 16 I had back in the day. One day, sailing alone, I was headed to the beach to get out of a storm, the surf was huge for the Gulf. I surfed off the face of one wave and dove right into the back of the next one just as it was breaking. Both hulls and the tramp were under foam, just a mast and sail sticking out. It was just a fantastic sight.

I sailed that little Hobie from Clearwater down to the shipping channel and up to the St. Pete Yacht Club. Left at 8PM and arrived at 8AM, we sailed all night. Coolest part of the whole night was dawn, beating into a steady breeze a beautiful sunrise and flying the hull non-stop for several hours in Tampa Bay.

I also used to crew on a local race boat, an Irwin 40. We were running in a heavy swell and flying a spinaker. The pole was set just a little too low and the boat was caught on the quater by two perfectly timed waves and we took a huge roll, caught the spinaker pole in the water and that 40 footer just about had the mast horrizonal. Folded the pole up like an old straw. 

I was always designated the heavy weather helmsman. This, 'cause I would always ride my motorcycle to the Yacht Clubs and would store my helmet and riding gear on the boat. When the weather got rough I'd just put on my full-coverage helmet, waterproof riding jacket and sit in the cockpit enjoying sailing in the storm. I keep a full coverage motorcycle helmet on my boat now and suggest it's a good idea for anyone. The obvious reason is head protection from the boom or a fall but you'd be surprised how well you can see in a driving rain with a good helmet on.

DB


----------



## smackdaddy

Dirt - dude, you definitely have the BFS state of mind. Great stories - great sails.

Welcome. Now read the rest of those 138 pages.

Also thanks for putting the Gulfies on the board. I'll be starting the 2009 BFS Cup poll here in a couple of months. And we Gulfies need all the help we can get.


----------



## smackdaddy

A sweet BFS stolen from tommays. He and wuff were in the same stink as these guys.



tommays said:


> We have to thank Capt Joe for making the call i am looking forward to the party because one of are boats stayed in and finished along with 9 others
> 
> My friend bobs report
> 
> Hi Guys,
> 
> I hope everyone on 'Zzzoom' & "Puck III" is OK.
> 
> I believe this years race was even more memorable than last years ALIR with the three water spouts hitting us at the finish.
> 
> We Finished in Just under 48 hours. Crossing the line 4th (behind the two Navy boats and Tenacity). We took 2nd in our division. Unknown to us we where battling for 2nd place since rounding Montauk.
> Heading up Little Gull island Cut, cost us (In hind sight We should of went for Plum Gut).
> 
> The third start (as well as your start I believe) was a fiasco............
> Between the 10'+ swells and 37+ MPH winds in the dark on Thursday night, and A through-hull hose failure which had us taking on water(luckily we had a wooden plug to slow the leak) - kept us very busy. Plus A couple of folks ralphing set the tone. Add the Severe Electrical thunderstorms & torrential rain (w/ 40+ MPH wind) & limited visibility on Friday night had us with our hands full controlling the boat in the center of the L.I. sound. Only to be followed by Doldrums beginning at 2:30AM Friday that lasted until mid-day Saturday. Then super light and patchy wind conditions today. We finishing up in a rain burst after crossing the finish line (With the breakwater almost under water at high tide).
> 
> Needless to say we are exhausted.
> 
> With only my tweaked shoulder, a small seam opening in our Code Zero sail and two exploding CAM blocks we came out of it pretty unscathed.
> 
> As far as we know of the 60 boats starting, 51 dropped out. Only 7 boats had finished (w/ 2 still racing) by the time we we left Sea Cliff YC this afternoon.
> 
> Hope to see you at the party tomorrow.....
> Bob.Z


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - I've come across 3 tantalizing tales that most likely qualify for the BFS Hall of Fame. Here are the teasers these guys threw out.

I say we get 'em up to tell us some lies!!!!!

*DENBY* (I just KNEW he had it in him)
"The 14ft following seas and winds gusting to 50 was interesting, and yes we were under sail. And on several occasions we have snorkeled the boat."









*MALLO*
"Boats and Rocks, Don't go together!! Got the boat back and after 18 Months of hard graft re-built her, now last survey said she is in better condition than she has been for many years&#8230;.."









*BLOODHUNTER*
"I was 19 and probably was even more deficient in the judgment department than anyone here. I was just a whole helluva lot luckier. Actually there were four of us which probably exponentially decreased whatever sense we might have had. We set out into the Atlantic without once paying attention to the weather reports and got hit by one of the worst spring storms ever to hit the east cost. We survived -- because we had a very strong boat and were incredibly lucky. It could easily have been otherwise."

++++++++++++++

Cough 'em up boys! We'll keep the rum flowin'!


----------



## bloodhunter

*My Big Freakin Stupid Sail*

Smack,
Just saw your post (was out sailing) so here's the story ( as well as I remember it) BTW I drink Barbancourt Reserve aged 15-years

I'll never forget the sound of the wind, shrieking through the rigging like some demented monster and it went on and on and on&#8230;
This happened a long time ago -- beginning of March 1962 to be exact - so some of the details are a bit hazy, but as I remember our BFS:
There were four us, all in college. We co-owned a 37-ft steel ketch named Maelstrom. She was a heavy boat, full keel, very strongly built. We kept her on the Connecticut shore and sailed a lot in Buzzards Bay . 
Anyway that year we had all finished our finals early and the next semester didn't start until April so we decided to go sailing. The weather, as I remember it, was beautiful, rather warm for that time of year. I'm not sure who got the idea first but we decided to sail to Bermuda. 
We'd done it before-- twice -- but in mid-June. In fact one the greatest feelings of accomplishment I've ever felt was sighting Hamilton light after navigating us there using sextant and reduction tables (that's another story). 
We set the boat up, made sure all our systems were ready, our safety gear was inspected and we set off. What we didn't do was get a long or even medium range weather forecast. If we had, we might have seen what was coming and stayed close to home. Never do that again.
Anyway off we went. The first couple of days were really good, decent wind, nice weather until the second night when the wind and seas start to build by the third day we were carrying 30-knot winds with gusts up to maybe 50. The wind was coming off our port beam and we were riding under a storm staysail and mizzen. Taking down the jib and the main were interesting . It took three of us to do it.
This being the days before GPS and Loran we couldn't navigate accurately enough to try to run for the Chesapeake. It would have been all dead reckoning and if we missed it would have been all over. The water was cold even through the foul weather gear and layers of sweaters and you could do about 2 hours at the helm before the cold got to you.
We had to steer her to take the seas on the quarter and keep her from being rolled. I read later that some of the seas were over 40-feet high but they looked a lot higher than that from were I was. 
It's hard to describe just what it was like being pounded like that hour after hour. The worst thing was the noise. The shrieking of the wind in the rigging was enough to drive your crazy. I'm sure the winds got to hurricane force. Even worse, the storm parked itself off the Maryland coast for two days so the pounding went on and on and on.
We lost the storm jib during fourth or firth day, blown to shreds but even without sails we were going too fast and we were afraid of pitchpoling as we ran before the wind and waves. To slow ourselves down we towed a heaving hawser attached the bitts at our stern in a big loop. It slowed us to about 3 knots and the loop actually help prevent waves from breaking over the stern. 
We had read all the heavy weather sailing books, in fact we had some of them aboard and I remember us pouring over them for hints. The best thing was not any instruction or hints we got from them but the simple fact that all of these people had survived some in boats smaller and not as strongly made as ours and some in worse conditions.
What we did -- at this distance in time its mostly a blur, remembered feelings and impressions rather than fact. Eventually the storm blew itself out. When I was able to take a sun sight I found we had been blow east of the stream and north of Bermuda. We headed back and finally made it to Hamilton. Altogether it took us about 11 days. We had the boat hauled and checked by a surveyor and aside from the sails everything was in good shape. We replaced the storm jib and had the mizzen restitched and by that time was had to head back. This time we got a detailed weather forecast.
In retrospect we owed our lives to the strength of our boat and to our little one-burner SeaSwing stove. Maelstrom took all the pounding the storm handed out and come through with no more damage than abraded paint. And without the hot meals that gimbaled stove made it possible to prepare we would not have had the strength to manage the boat. 
Finally I gotta say that after that sail I became a lot more cautious - I figure I owe the ocean one and I want to put off payment as long as possible.
That was our BFS, for me after that experience nothing else qualifies at least nothing I'm likel;y to live through. We did go to Bermuda twice more on Maelstrom before we sold her and next year I'm going there in Enchantress


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## smackdaddy

Wow blood! That's a hall of famer for sure. It's great that you point out the importance of the stove. Makes perfect sense and I've never heard that before. Also - after seeing 40 footers in that Deadliest Catch imagery a few pages ago - I am seriously amazed.

Great BFS dude. Thanks!

Barbencourt is definitely a fine spirit. I'll try the 15. I'd also pass on a recommendation from Chall...Angostura 1824. Only a 12 year old - but seriously fine stuff.

Now where is mallo? Dude, you owe us a BFS!

Finally, how about some crazy Norwegian newbs pulling off a serious BFS on a 50 year old boat? These guys are awesome:

PESSBLAUT : A NORTHERN NORWEGIAN TERM DESCRIBING SOMEONE BEING REALLY WET. LITERALLY HAVING PISSED THEIR PANTS.

Don't we several Norwegians on Sailnet? You gotta love 'em!

Anybody recognize the boat? What is it?


----------



## CharlieCobra

Here's a video of a man made BFS. Pretty sweet.
YouTube - Tranquilo Aruba,Jet Blast!


----------



## smackdaddy

Oh man, that is freakin' hilarious!!! I've got to embed that one:






Now THAT is a wet rail. Nice find Charlie!


----------



## bloodhunter

Smack,
Thanks for passing on the word about Angostura 1824. Gotta try it if I can find it.
Still got that SeaSwing stove though it's pretty corroded now. Was thinking of having it bronzed.


----------



## sailortjk1

For my friend Smacky...

This weekend was full of thrill rides on Lake Michigan.
As you know, my motto is "No need to go looking for BFS, BFS will find you."
Well, I did not listen to my own advise and we went out for a quick little day sail on Sunday, winds sustained around 30, seas 6-8 foot, very steep and very close together. Your typical Lake Michigan chop.

My First Mate was NOT happy. 
It was a quick sail.
YouTube - 2009 Boat 033

_Edit: The camera does not do justice to the actual waves heights we were experiencing_


----------



## bubb2

Thanks for the video, Tim.


----------



## ikrieger

Had a bit of a BFS moment couple weeks ago when i got my new winchers. Blowing up to 20 knots on lake erie. Scariest part was getting nerves to go out solo and docking with that crosswind. I saw the race boats heading out so i figured what the heck... I had my 110 jib with reefed main. Worked well close hulled but on a beam reach she was getting a little squirrelly surfing down waves. Winchers performed real well making winching much easier. Glad I wasn't on a long passage only a little daysail, I never was able to leave the helm. Glad I went out though because you only learn from real experience. Looked like those race boats had fun though with full canvas and spinnakers downwind! oooh wheee!


----------



## painkiller

smackdaddy said:


> Oh man, that is freakin' hilarious!!! I've got to embed that one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now THAT is a wet rail. Nice find Charlie!


That's awesome. They were having some fun, too.


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## smackdaddy

TJ - jeez you're right...not pleased. My favorite part was the other crewchick saying: "Insane sailor. Man and his boat." That pretty much sums it all up as far as I'm concerned. Nice sailing dude!

krieg - nice job on the singlehand! I have the same fear on the crosswind docking thing. Nice BFS dude.

PS - What's a wincher?


----------



## GeorgeB

Hey Smack what's the deal? Somebody on the East Coast drives over to the pump-out dock and you hail it as the next big BFS, and Montendo here in the West has a true BFS (see Santa Cruz Island Report) and nada, zip, nothing. What gives? The "anchorages" on the Channel Islands</ST1 are nothing more than indentations on a rocky shore, exposed to all sorts of wind and a big drop off in depth so the only alternative is to anchor (uncomfortably) close to shore. Give our man some credit!

<O</O
Raced on the Cal 40 last weekend. Not quite a BFS - winds in the mid twenties (true) and a flood current so the chop wasn't very high. We topped out at 9.5kts mainly because the Cal</ST1 needs waves to surf and merely pushes water around when it is flat. Lyons Imaging did their usual amazing photography so I'm able to post a little "boat porn". The only BFS moment of the day was shortly after these photos were taken when we were a little slow in setting the new guy during a gybe. The old gal rolled twice to let us know that we had to get our timing down before the Rolex Big Boat Series at the StFYC next month. Speaking of which, do you still have travel plans to the West Coast in September?

The Cal 40




















Some of the action going to windward










Have you thought about buying an Antrim 27?


----------



## stevegmusic

*My BFS*

Well, I think I could be the newbiest newbie of all, and I'm not sure what counts as BFS, but 19-23 knot wind, 6-8 foot seas in the Catalina channel in my opinion, rocks hard. We were in a Catalina 38. The skipper called it a lively bathtub with sails. I was at the helm for the first part of the crossing, nothing too special, 10-15 knot winds and calm seas on a broad reach. Just as soon as I went below to hit the head and handed the helm to my brother-in-law, things got fun. The wind picked up to a steady 19 knots with up to 23k gusts, and the blue started to dance. We trimmed up, heeled over and went balls out. The girls were below hanging on while I straddled the bow, looking down from the top of the rollers and getting soaked when we would hit the valley. I went almost completely under a few times. After that, I was completely hooked and will sail anything I can get my hands on. I just got my first boat and am REALLY excited to get her on the water and get wet.

Tamin the wild Bucc,

Steven


----------



## St Anna

The level of the B and the F is entirely dependant on who is receiving end of it. 
Great to hear you are on the water. Love ya work.
DC


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## smackdaddy

steve-o, welcome to the wonderful world of BFS dude! Sounds like the best introduction a guy could ask for. GoergeB sails a C38 I think. Speaking of....

GeorgeB - I'm on it! I'll go track down that story. I was wondering why the Westies were so quiet. You guys are usually raging at this point!

Nice b-porn BTW. Dude, you are livin' the life!


----------



## smackdaddy

A true BFS from Montenido (thanks for the heads up GeorgeB). Great story Mont and a good sumup of lessons learned. Thanks, dude...

Santa Cruz Island Report (long)
Hi all, well we made it back to port yesterday after launching Sunday morning. My wife begged off at the last minute, so it was just me and my 14 year-old twin boys. As we were heading dead into the wind from Channel Islands Marina, we motored over using the main only. The wind near the island was getting up near 20 knots so we decided to change destinations and go to the East end to a place called Smuggler's. Anchored several times before finding the right spot (inexperience).

Once on the hook, the boys jumped into the dinghy (11' inflatable, 8hp) and started buzzing around. I managed to kick a cleat bare-footed and had a badly discolored and swollen toe. Nice. We explored on shore where I found a new fender with rope, 3' long by about 1' diameter among the flotsam and jetsom. We had a very bumpy night and decided to make our original destination, Prisoner's Harbor in the morning.

The next morning the breeze was up a bit and I decided to pull anchor and head to our new spot as the boys slept. First mistake of many was not to check the weather report. I didn't want to wake the boys so I headed out. As I rounded the island and became less sheltered the wind started increasing. My second mistake was that in addition to towing the dinghy, I decided to tow the kayak. As I motored my way north the wind steadily increased as our hull speed decreased. As my speed dropped from 5+ knots to barely 1 knot, I knew that I had problems. One of them was that part of my head sail was catching wind and coming unfurled. No way to fix that so I tried raising the main, thinking that I would tack out to the east, and then west toward my destination. It was apparent very quickly that this was not a good idea. Wind was now clocking on my meter at 25+ knots. Recognizing that I was in a bit of trouble I turned around and headed downwind and back to my original spot. Man was I glad to be back in the lee of the island 

The rest of the trip went well, but the morning that we were to leave it was once again howling at 20+ knots on what would be a beam reach. I switched out my 150 genoa to a regular jib before pulling the anchor. By the time we left, it had calmed to about 15 knots. I was still a little spooked by the day before so I started out with the main only, reefed at the first position. We motored the whole way back and still made 6-7 knots.

I know this is long and I appreciate anybody who has stuck around this long. Normally, I can sail in these winds. 20+ is starting to get interesting, but no problem. I guess that towing the dinghy and kayak complicated things, and having my sons sleeping made it a bit more sketchy for me. One thing is that when I sail in conditions such as these, I always learn something. My main lessons would be the obvious - ALWAYS check the weather, always secure the kayak (and maybe the dinghy), always have a plan "B" and "C" just in case.

Overall, a great trip. The boys never really knew that I was sh#tting bricks for a moment there. Next time out will be easier and better managed. BTW, got some great pics from the boys up in the bosun's seat. 

Thanks for reading. Input is always welcome.

Bill


----------



## denby

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - I've come across 3 tantalizing tales that most likely qualify for the BFS Hall of Fame. Here are the teasers these guys threw out.
> 
> I say we get 'em up to tell us some lies!!!!!
> 
> *DENBY* (I just KNEW he had it in him)
> "The 14ft following seas and winds gusting to 50 was interesting, and yes we were under sail. And on several occasions we have snorkeled the boat."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ++++++++++++++
> 
> Cough 'em up boys! We'll keep the rum flowin'!


smacky,

Just came across this. You look at this as something big and exciting, I look at it as just another day sailing but in different conditions.
I was on my return trip half way throw my vacation and had a choice, stay at Cuttyhunk Harbor and ride the storm out at anchor which would have meant doing one night of sailing or ride the storm and no night sailing.


----------



## smackdaddy

denby said:


> smacky,
> Just came across this. You look at this as something big and exciting, I look at it as just another day sailing but in different conditions.


No, see Den that's just it! Many would call that a "bad" decision. I won't. It was a choice to sail in challenging conditions for completely valid reasons. And you did great! THAT'S BFS!

I'm convinced that the reason you didn't have to punch your EPIRB is that you have your Magma safely tucked under the bimini. Drogues schmogues - THAT'S actually the key to heavy weather sailing!

Now c'mon, dude, spill the beans! Tell me about the snorkel!


----------



## bacampbe

*Okay, I guess I've got one*

I remember the scene that kept happening over and over. We would be healed over at least 45 degrees in a centerboard dinghy, with me shouting "release the jib" at the girl I had just started dating--who had never been on a boat before. I was thinking that if we go over, I wasn't sure we can get the boat righted in those conditions with just the two of us.

We were on my first boat, a old (as in 3 digit hull number) Coronado 15. If there is a hall-of-fame for worst choices for a first sailboat, the C15 is probably in it. It had a completely soft chine, no ballast, and lots of attitude. I have personally capsized that boat by stepping aboard from the dock in zero winds. It's only stable position was upside down.

We had plenty of wind that day. It was July 4, 1992. (I think I've got the year right, but I am sure about the day.) We were in the middle Lake Grapevine in north Texas. We found at later that the wind had been blowing a steady 25 mph with gusts over 30.

This was probably our second date, and I was starting to suspect it would be the last.

Did I mention this was my first boat? This was the first time I had it out without someone who knew more about sailing that I did. We had already been through a comedy of errors. When we launched the boat from the trailer, I failed to tie a proper knot attaching the jib-sheet to the sail. It promptly came undone, and left us with a sheet slipping through the clew. I handed the tiller off to my date and went forward to try to fix it. By the time I got it tied correctly, we had run all the way across the lake. When we tried to head back upwind, I noticed the mainsail was behaving badly. On inspection, I determined that the battens were missing. Not misplaced exactly; I knew exactly where they were--the trunk of my car back at the boat ramp.

So now we had to beat our way back to the boat ramp with no battens. The boat would just barely point above a beam reach. We spent probably 4 hours tacking back, with each tack finding us only a little closer than before. We almost capsized more times than I could count. We made it back without capsizing, but we were sunburned, windburned, and exhausted.

I was floored later when we met up with some friends. They asked if she had been afraid. She said no, that I seemed to know what I was doing and she was confident I would get us back alive. I had the bad sense to point out that, as confident as she might have been, I had personally been terrified the whole time.

We're married now, and she approved the purchase of boat number 3 last April--out new Beneteau 31. We both almost know what we're doing now. The C15 is long gone--we donated it to a university sailing club some years back.


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## smackdaddy

Heh-heh. Bac, great story, dude! No wonder you married that fine lady! Any girl that feels safe while you know everything's going to hell in a bucket is the kind you need around. Nicely played my good man!

Lakies...+1.


----------



## smackdaddy

And another freakin' CLASSIC!



0verdrive said:


> (I've been lurking on sailnet for quite a while now, posting last fall with questions on buying a beginner sailboat. It turns out I had a friend who's dad was willing to give us a Melges M20 to fix up and learn on, which has been a blast, if challenging at times. We put a lot of work into it, and then joined the yacht club at Perry Lake (KS), where we've done our best to get as much tiller time in as possible every weekend. I thought the folks here might get a kick out of hearing our experience over the weekend...)
> 
> My brother, Dad, and I took the boat out on on a moderately windy, but very choppy day this past Saturday - I had been out on a slightly windier day once, and wanted more practice. After having a good time sailing for a couple of hours, we practiced a couple man-overboard drills, before heading back to meet the rest of the family. While we were heading back, the wind died a fair amount, and I thought I'd give my brother, who so far had crewed regularly for me, a turn at the tiller. But it soon became obvious that I hadn't given him enough instruction prior to giving him the opportunity at the tiller, and when we got up too much speed (and heel) he let out the mainsail to de-power the boat, but turned the tiller the wrong direction, causing us to heel severely. With the boat at just about 90 degrees, dad fell into the sail, ensuring what was already a likely capsize, and driving the mast downward, until it rotated a full 180 degrees and turtled! With all of us now in the water, my brother held onto a shroud while my dad and I stood on the centerboard to try to bring the mast up to water level. We eventually succeeded, and I took down the sails before we attempted to right the boat. Unfortunately, we didn't have enough flotation in the rear of the boat, which was now completely under water, and we weren't able to get the mast out of the water. We put a PFD under the mast to keep it from turtling again, while trying to figure out our next step.
> 
> Finally, a nearby sailboat came to our "rescue," which in this case meant circling around us, hollering the same instructions for how to right the boat that we'd already tried but failed at. But he was insistent, so we tried again, mostly to appease him. Surprisingly, our second, renewed effort was more fruitful, and we eventually had a swamped, but upright boat. It was at this point that I realized the repercussions of how I had taken down the sails: I had gotten the mainsail down about 3/4 of the way before the halyard had fouled on something underwater. Rather than go underwater to figure out where the line was fouled (I was a little concerned about getting tangled in lines, while underwater) I had disconnected the halyard from the head of the sail before bringing it down the rest of the way. Unfortunately, this meant that once the boat was righted, the mainsail halyard was now at the top of the mast, well out of reach. Not only that, but I had lost my hand bailer when the boat turtled, and I was trying to decide whether the jib alone would have enough pull to empty a swamped boat, when a motorboat stopped and offered a tow.
> 
> Unfortunately, the motorboat that stopped to offer help was under control of the most inexperienced people on the lake! With us under tow, the boat started to drain, and things were looking promising for the first few minutes. But then they proceeded to swerve back and forth like they thought they had a skiier behind them, until the boat started submarining first on the port side, then on starboard, while we all jumped from side to side trying to counterbalance the effects. I wasn't sure whether I should try to man the tiller while under tow to fight being pulled under or if this would only make things worse. But before I could make up my mind, it was no longer a problem - the motorboat grounded us (and them) on a local underwater concrete foundation! That they didn't know about this area, which is marked by buoys, was a surprise to me - it was the first thing that was pointed out to me when we signed up at the club, and I assume it's common knowledge to avoid that area altogether. With my boat being a performance scow, we didn't have too much trouble getting it off the foundation, but the motorboat was a huge monstrosity that took a concerted effort between them reversing and my brother and I pushing for all we were worth to get our rescuers off the foundation. I don't know what sort of damage they may have taken, but they were still afloat, and offered continued assistance. We declined, figuring it would be safer at this point to swim the boat to shore rather than to be sunk by their continued help.
> 
> It wasn't too long after this that we were within sight of the club, and several members came out on a work pontoon to help tow us to shore. We eventually got the boat to a nearby beach, where we were able to bring the trailer around and haul the boat out, but it was a rough end to a fun day. We ended up with about 2 hours sailing time, and 2 hours recovery. Thankfully, the only damage was to my Windex. Chalk it up to another (several) lessons learned:
> 
> 1) Give more instruction prior to handing the tiller over, and start in a cove.
> 2) Don't disconnect the halyards from the sails!
> 3) The procedure for capsizing does work - it just takes a concerted (and coordinated) effort!
> 4) My bailer apparently floats! When I was digging around in the (underwater) bag it was stored in, I couldn't find it because it was floating above my hand.
> 5) It may be better to be at the tiller, even while under tow?
> 6) Should I have tried to sail a swamped boat by jib alone?
> 7) Get a submersible handheld vhf radio - I could have radioed the yacht clubhouse for assistance.
> 8) Anything I've missed?
> 
> Humbly,
> ~Dean


----------



## blt2ski

Are we having phun or what!


----------



## smackdaddy

Bluto - you just brought a tear to my eye, dude. That's living - right there.

I thought Giu was the only one that could get his boat to do that in a controlled way. You are the man.


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## blt2ski

From a little earlier in the evening. Picture night at the club. Not sure if David has any of his C30 to show or not, I'll look for some later tonight. Need to put the above and a couple of others in the sunset shot thread.

Downwind into the finish, my eldest daughter has my newest crew, 4.5 month old Sir Winston who survived in the cabin! Phun night it was


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## zeehag

dont have any pix--we were sailing not tooo long ago in the w fla gulf off ft myers and got caught in thunderstorms---went back---then next dsy went out to marco island---the day after we got t o marco island, we set out again--this time for louseyanny----aiming at ponchartrain--via harbor hops--started out nice---clear with some nice simpsons clouds----at night thise decided to become lightning storms--so for the 3 days we were sailing at night, we had some wild rides to make mr toad feel some slime inn his pants----was a gas----we sailed a seidelman 37 at approx 8 kts continuously with gusts making our --per gps--speed up to 10--and that is with reefed main and jib...LOL--wooohooo---did this for 3 nites--into appalachicola we found the rain stopped but the lightning didnt nor did the wind----woohooo---we surfed into appalachicola bay with 6 footers sliding us in---i know the west coast doesnt care about 6 footers--i am from there--so i didnt wake up--my friend, whose boat it is--was impressed--i slept thru that part--kat slept on top of me---he was a bit scared --lol--doesnt like lightning---was fun----now we are gonna go out in some goood gulf weather for another few days to weeks of fun and games--play hide n seek with ma nature and her friends ---- possibly find some more bfs in store----LOL


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## smackdaddy

Sweet Zee! Take a camera with you on this next one. But, for the love of all that's just, no photos of mr. toad's pants. I don't even want to know.


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## zeehag

smackdaddy said:


> Sweet Zee! Take a camera with you on this next one. But, for the love of all that's just, no photos of mr. toad's pants. I don't even want to know.


i will take out camera next time..for sure lol....


----------



## twinsdad

A week ago last saturday finally got as close to a BFS as I'm likely to get this year. Not really as impressive as some of the others here, but it was great to be in 20kt apparent winds on LIS. For my boat, that is a lot of wind, and me and the Mrs. had a fabulous fast crossing of the sound with just the genoa out. Good thing I left the main down, or we would have been way overpowered. A little spray, a little heeling, what else can you ask for? Oh yeah, the kids at sleep away camp, now that's what I call a great sail!


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## smackdaddy

twinsdad said:


> ...it was great to be in 20kt apparent winds on LIS. For my boat, that is a lot of wind, and me and the Mrs. had a fabulous fast crossing of the sound with just the genoa out. Good thing I left the main down, or we would have been way overpowered. A little spray, a little heeling, what else can you ask for?


Now C'MON!!! Is big sailing not the coolest thing on the planet??? It's what we LIVE FOR!!!

Great job, Twins!

BTW, I'd recommend throwing an extra couple of bucks at the camp as a tip - as you make 'em basque in the glory of your BFS and eat their hearts out that they weren't sailing.

The Easties are moving back up the board!


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## CharlieCobra

I wish I had some shots of the gnarly sails on Oh Joy. Too damned busy or the Admiral wouldn't budge from the companionway stairs. The nastiest were before I got the little video cam. Ah well, if I EVER get Oh Joy back in the water, I'll get some. It sure would be nice to have some pictures of her under sail though....


----------



## painkiller




----------



## CharlieCobra

That ain't no lie. I got caught riding a Yamaha Vision across there in October when a front came through. 70 MPH gusting to 90 from 45* apparent through rain, sleet and snow from Cheyenne to Rawlings. Had to dodge a tumbleweed as big as my house rolling across I-15 North of Fort Collins. Saw it coming for five minutes before it got there and watched it roll right across the snow fence and 50' behind me. It probably made it to Nebraska, luckily without me stuck to the front of it. Wild assed ride and one I wouldn't care to do again. All for nothing. I got there and they told me there was NO JOB! After I just rode through a Tropical Storm and this Blue Norther from TX because somebody said I had a job when I got there. Needless to say, I launched across the desk at this fool and security threw me AND my bike off the property. I hit another TS on the way back in TX again. Lousy trip this....


----------



## denby

twinsdad said:


> A week ago last saturday finally got as close to a BFS as I'm likely to get this year. Not really as impressive as some of the others here, but it was great to be in* 20kt apparent winds on LIS. * For my boat, that is a lot of wind, and me and the Mrs. had a fabulous fast crossing of the sound with just the genoa out. Good thing I left the main down, or we would have been way overpowered. A little spray, a little heeling, what else can you ask for? Oh yeah, the kids at sleep away camp, now that's what I call a great sail!


Wa..Wait a minute, 20kt winds on the western end of the Dead Sea? Most of been a fluke.


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## twinsdad

As I said 20kts apparent, not true. C'mon you know that LIS can have any kind of condition!


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## denby

twinsdad said:


> As I said 20kts apparent, not true. C'mon you know that LIS can have any kind of condition!


Yeah, mostly dead calm.


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## CalebD

*Dead Sea? Dolphins and ...*

Wait till fall Dennis.
November 16, 2008 central sound buoy showed winds peaking over 50 knots with 6' seas that we pounded into. Hardly the Dead Sea the weekend that winter came earlier then Thanksgiving...
It was rough but doable on Bene505's boat. I have never seen the LI Sound so nasty except for Hurricane Gloria and for that one I was on land watching trees fall on houses on LI.
If h'cane Bill heads our way you can break out your spinnaker or remove all your canvas as you choose.


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## smackdaddy

CalebD said:


> If h'cane Bill heads our way you can break out your spinnaker or remove all your canvas as you choose.


Okay Denby, when you do that, TAKE SOME PICS!!! You'll ensure that the Easties grease The Cup, no problem!


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## diogenes726

Does anyone anticipate the current H. Bill to provide some good BFS stories this weekend?


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## denby

Caleb,

My boat will be on the hard by then, I lose my mooring on November 1.  


Unless I can swing some vaca time and take a trip.


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## smackdaddy

diogenes726 said:


> Does anyone anticipate the current H. Bill to provide some good BFS stories this weekend?


Heh-heh. Yeah dio, you go on out there and throwdown dude! Man I couldn't imagine being stuck in that bad boy.

Has anyone heard from that guy that was leaving Bermuda last weekend? Jeez I hope he missed that stuff.

HEY DENBY...WHERE'S THAT BFSNORKELING STORY DUDE????


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## CalebD

denby said:


> Caleb,
> 
> My boat will be on the hard by then, I lose my mooring on November 1.
> Unless I can swing some vaca time and take a trip.


Dennis,
Getting your boat out of the water on LIS by Nov. 1 is a reasonable precaution against fall storms which are inevitable. During that trip last year 11/15-16 we spent the night tied up to a dock in Port Jeff for free as the marina was already shuttered. The only other boats we saw on the water during that trip were Coasties and tugs doing their normal business.
Enjoy it while the season lasts.


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## smackdaddy

Hey Caleb...what's up bro?? Have you had the Tartan out recently? 

BTW - I still have very fond memories of our drive to Bene's boat. Great conversation. I had a lot of fun with you guys. You have to come to Austin sometime, dude.


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## smackdaddy

Some fun BFS'n from CapnSantiago:



CapnSantiago said:


> I've read/heard of knock downs but never experienced one...unless:
> 
> I was sailing Lake Texoma on my Islander 30 this weekend (as usual) which had some quirky winds from the east/southeast. Heading north hugging the east shore where the channel is I was on a starboard fore-beam reach with winds about 15 (less than 20 as there were no whitecaps) a gust almost dipped the rail but not quite and I instictively headed up to take advantage of the blow with full main and genoa flying. The wind strengthened and dipped the rail to the enthusiasm of my First Mate Barbara (we had only buried the rail once before on this boat...unlike the regular routine on the J24 we used to sail). The boat then dipped further and white water on the rail turned to green water on the rail to white water over the coaming and into the cockpit dowsing my aft portside stern mounted speaker. Vanishing Point got a little squirrely feeling momentarily as though she was trying to spin on her side to starboard as everything starboard side in the cabin crashed accross the cabin sole. This lasted all of 5 seconds or less as I corrected to port and she stood back up and sailed on as if nothing had happened on a steady beam. As Barb and I continued to feel our quickened pulses and laugh in amazement listening to the garbled water soaked speaker we noted the bottom 12" of foresail was also wet and had obviously dipped.
> 
> So, does this qualify as a knockdown? I've heard a knockdown is when the mast hits the water (though I'm not sure if this is meant literally) and I know the spreaders didn't touch. Also, was the side spin feeling the start of what I've heard as a broach? I want to put this one in the log book, especially if it qualifies as a knockdown (not something you're suppose to strive for I suppose...but worthy of documentation).


That rates. And I'd say that faster pulses and laughter is a sign of having a freakin' blast!


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay Omatako...I want to hear more about these!!!



Omatako said:


> We had two knock-downs on our trip from the US to New Zealand in 2007, both in the same storm.
> 
> The first we were lying a-hull at 3:00am and were hit beam-on by a broken wave. The force was enough to knock cabinetry off the walls down below. My wife went into freefall across our cabin and landed in the join between the deck and the hull so we figure that we went to at least a horizontal mast.
> 
> The second was in the following dawn when we were motoring out of the storm and we drove up the side of a wave at an angle and the top of the wave broke against the side of the boat when we were about half way up.
> 
> In this event the mast went well below horizontal because we were in the cockpit and the mast was in the trough of the wave with the wind anemometer underwater. I watched that happen and it was confirmed by the wind indicator being stuck on 74 knots when the boat stood up (don't know why) and it only worked for another few days before packing it in altogether.
> 
> So I guess a knock-down for me is a roll-over that get's arrested at the last moment and the boat stands up again. I don't know why we didn't role the second time but I know that I was ready to take a really deep breath.
> 
> When I was young and foolish and raced boats, we had many spinnaker broaches and to me they don't qualify as a knock-down. I guess everyone has a different view and none are actually wrong - it's what it means to you that counts.


----------



## smackdaddy

Here's a link to the source...



by Hal Roth said:


> But what gives this book a kicker was John's chance meeting with a yacht named Tzu Hang, a 46-foot wooden ketch owned by two keen sailors named Miles and Beryl Smeeton. John and the Smeetons saw one another in various harbors, occasionally sailed in company, and became fast friends as they worked their way across the Pacific. The Smeetons decided to sail from Melbourne, Australia to the Falkland Islands via Cape Horn. They wanted a third person as crew to make the watches easier.
> 
> "Will you hold up your trip and come along with us for a few months?" asked the Smeetons. "Of course," said John. It was a fateful decision.
> 
> So halfway through his trip around the world, John stored his yacht ashore, moved aboard Tzu Hang, and used his skills to help prepare the big ketch for the Cape Horn adventure. At the end of 1956 the threesome set off on the 6,700-mile run to the Falkland Islands. However, about 1,000 miles west of the western entrance to the Strait of Magellan they had an experience that was to change their lives.
> 
> While Beryl Smeeton was steering, a colossal wave waterfalled onto the yacht and capsized and pitchpoled the vessel. Not only did Tzu Hang lose her masts, bowsprit, and rudder, but the huge wave stripped the decks clean and even tore off the stout wooden doghouse. This left a great hole in the deck through which water poured below. Beryl was injured, over the side, and thirty yards away. The yacht was flooded. It looked like the end of the affair. Beryl managed to swim back to Tzu Hang. The men pulled her on board.
> 
> "I know where the buckets are," she said, and set everyone to work.
> 
> John tacked sails and bits of wood torn from below over the opening in the deck. Meanwhile the Smeetons bailed from below. In the days that followed, John used his boatbuilding skills and constructed new masts from the inside woodwork that he took down. The threesome cut smaller sails from the spare sails. They built a steering oar, gradually converted the wreck into a seagoing proposition, and somehow managed to sail to Coronel, Chile with the jury rig. It was an incredible achievement, and one that you read with tears in your eyes. They had literally come back from the dead. It's a story that all explorers and sailors and adventurers know-or should know.
> 
> "There was a wonderful feeling of comradeship between the three of us," writes John. "We all realized that without the other two we would never have survived and though we all wanted to get into Coronel, I think we also realized that we would never be this close again."
> 
> These modest words belie the greatest adventure of his life.


Thanks to Val for the heads-up.


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## smackdaddy

Holy crap!! I just got hit with a t storm packing wind of 50 KNOTS while on my boat!!! I'm sending from my iPhone. Will post more later. I've got some cleaning up to do.


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## painkiller

No pictures = didn't happen. So post 'em.


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## CharlieCobra

Were ya sailing or just aboard? I got hit by one like that while SH the V-21. Laid her flat over until I eased way out and she stood up and rocketed off. While it was wild, it wasn't near as scary as having lightning flashing and hitting trees and crap all around every few seconds.


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## twinsdad

Smackdaddy, sounds like us easties are going to have a little bit of a rough weekend. I think I'll watch this one from land.


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## denby

Looks like we might get a little wind on Long Island Sound finally. Going sailing if I can get Saturday off.


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## smackdaddy

Read 'em and weep boys...57 mph (that's 50 knots to you and me)!










So there I was...working on the plumbing for the head when I heard the low rumble of thunder. I went up into the cockpit and came face-to-face with a huge freakin' thunderhead coming right at me. It was laced with furious lightning and trailing a dark tail of heavy rain. I knew I didn't have much time.

Mentally running through all the advice I've gotten on Sailnet, I knew exactly what do. I started down my checklist...

1. Unplug the shore power - even though I knew it would be really hot and stinky without the fan and my Barry Manilow record wouldn't play anymore.
2. Batten down the forward hatch so the stereo wouldn't get wet.
3. Put my beer in a drink holder. Put my other beer in the other drink holder.
4. Get the hatchboards ready.
5. Then sit in the cockpit....and wait.

After what seemed like an eternity it hit with a vengeance! Furious winds lashing the yacht! Rain blowing horizontally! 3'-4' confused chop out in the lake with the tops being blown right off! Howling in the rigging like I've never heard! Even with all the sails down, she was still heeling crazily!

After about twenty minues, the wind clocked around 180 degrees - and hit us again. Rain was now lashing into the cabin! I put my beer down again and dropped in the hatch boards, then got back into the fetal position on the cabin sole. You could barely hear my screams of "mama!" above the roar of 50 knots.

It was then I knew I was in the heart of hell.

I also discovered that my yacht leaks like a freakin' sieve...from every conceivable place. It was comical. There's no way I'd ever take the _Smacktanic_ out in real water. That would be suicide. But, back to the story...

The wind, rain, and lightning slowly started to abate. I knew that she'd stood up to some of the worst weather that lake could throw at her. That proud old C27!

When it was finally over, I rose from the sole, changed my pants, and slowly removed the hatch boards. Squinting, I stepped up into the soaked cockpit to survey the damage. The sun was shining again as the mass of rumbling grey moved to the south.

I inspected the docklines - and found no significant chafing. The bbq cover was a little crooked - and the cabin cover was horribly mussed. The bimini, however, was solid as a rock! I knew I'd been lucky to survive it.

Truly - it was one Big Freakin' Slipper.

Now - as for the lessons learned. After being on a sailing yacht in 50 knots of wind, I think I now understand what it takes to weather a huge storm at sea. And I've got one question for those of you that have been there like me...

ARE YOU GUYS FREAKING INSANE??????? There's NO WAY I'd sail in that crap!!!

Let this be a lesson to all you greenhorn "slippers". Prepare early. Pray hard. Keep and extra pair of pants handy. And remember to tighten your Magma cover.

++++++++++++++

Here's the _S/V Smacktanic_ after "The Storm of '09". You'll notice the cabin cover is all bunchy - and the sail covers are REALLY wet. But don't fret - the Manilow CD was just fine. Not even a scratch.










I'm happy to now take questions...


----------



## smackdaddy

denby said:


> Looks like we might get a little wind on Long Island Sound finally. Going sailing if I can get Saturday off.


Have fun Den. And bring back a REAL BFS!!


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## CharlieCobra

Funny how far a boat will heel under bare poles, even at the dock. At lot of windage up there. The rigging does sing though, especially on an old boat like mine with all of the extra strings. Ya know you're in the crapper when the stereo gets drowned out by the rig's howling and green water's running down along the coaming.


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## smackdaddy

It was actually pretty crazy. Dude, I got nothin' but respect for you and the other guys that have actually sailed in that stuff. Holy crap! That's nasty!


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## denby

ARE YOU GUYS FREAKING INSANE??????? There's NO WAY I'd sail in that crap!!!

Yes, but what does that have to do with anything?

If prepared, and knowing what you are doing, keeping a cool head and don't panic, it's just another day sailing. Just in different conditions. Sailed for 10 hours in steady winds of 25kt and many gust to 50kt. Kept our wits about us and had fun, you've seen the pic of my friend at the helm, that was the storm.


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## CalebD

Smacky,
Did you deploy the Jordan Series Drogue sea anchor? It could have helped if you were not at the dock. Just kidding.
It is really pretty amazing how bad the 'local' weather can get. We had something blow through here about a week ago that knocked down about 1000 trees in Central Park in NYC. I watched the lightning show from the comfort of land on LI where the cooler kept the beers cold. A fellow named Chris with a screen name of Labbatt sailed through it on his way into NY Harbor on his Passport 40' coming from Cape May, NJ or so. I am just too lazy to find the link but he posted the story on his sail blog. Well worth the read as he had similar wind readings as you did but he was on the Atlantic with his family heading into NY and lived to tell the tale.
My boat partner is always about wanting to get a new main sail and I have always wanted to get a storm jib and tri-sail for our boat. One of us loves to race and the other just wants to cruise. I'll give you one guess which is which.
If there was hail during your storm it would have been just that much more riveting!


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## painkiller

I have only one question. What's that metal spool thing in the corner of your slip?


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## smackdaddy

denby said:


> ARE YOU GUYS FREAKING INSANE??????? There's NO WAY I'd sail in that crap!!!
> 
> Yes, but what does that have to do with anything?
> 
> If prepared, and knowing what you are doing, keeping a cool head and don't panic, it's just another day sailing. Just in different conditions. Sailed for 10 hours in steady winds of 25kt and many gust to 50kt. Kept our wits about us and had fun, you've seen the pic of my friend at the helm, that was the storm.


Den - You're saying Force 10 is just another day of sailing???? Dude, I KNEW you were a BFSer!!!!! Maybe even an FC sailor!!!

Caleb - I don't quite have the actual JSD "completed" - and it was hard to deploy anything while sobbing on the sole. But I did find an old bra and some kite string and chucked that over the stern during the wind shift. Worked flawlessly. Dog was right.

Charlie - yeah it was pretty impressive. Some of the boats at the very end of the dock took a pretty good beating from the waves. The marina has had to push everything pretty far out of the channel into the lake - so it's all more exposed now.

Pain - that's my *BFS Yacht Tether***. I had the marina put it in for me. It's got 2 miles of cable. When I go sailing, I just hook in the _"Smacktanic"_ and shove off. Then when I totally screw up and run aground or run out of gas, I just put in a quick call to the boys and they reel me back into the slip. Who needs Seatow!?!

**FULL DISCLOSURE STATEMENT: Sailnet has a agreed to start carrying the BFS-YT next year, and has hired me to be their celebrity endorser (at $1.8M/year). It's all very awkward, yes. But this is one hell of a product. I think it's going to be a huge hit and will save many, many lives. (big smile and shine off the front tooth...which is gold by the way)


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## RTB

The _Smacktanic_...good one, Steve.

We've had a couple of similar experiences down in Kemah. That stuff blows in fast, barely enough time to get everything buttoned up. It was surprising how much a 7 ton boat heels tied up in her slip. Picture two nervous faces peeking out the cabin windows....


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## smackdaddy

No kiddin' RTB. That's exactly what I was doing. 

Actually, I did sit in the gangway for a while and watch what was happening to the water, boats, etc. and try to learn something as it was going down.

And I'll be honest, in thinking it through when I saw the storm coming (imagining I was out at that point), I would have screwed it up big time. I would have dropped the genny and reefed the main when I first saw it. And I figured that would have been the right call. I was proud of my "preparation".

But I now know that wouldn't have been enough. 50 knots is A LOT of freakin' wind. I would have been on my ear - even with a double reefed main I think. Pretty sobering...especially when it hit that fast and furious.


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## painkiller

And, Smack, you don't have a dodger either. Imagine the rain hitting you in the face at 50+ knots. I've been out in 40+ knots and the rain HURTS. I have a dodger and I still have a ski mask on my wish list.

When those black-as-night Chesapeake summer storms appear, I crank the diesel and drop the sails, man. Point that bow into the wind and wait for it to pass.


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## RTB

Hey, not all plans work out and you get your butt kicked. But it's a mistake you won't make a second time. I was happy we hadn't gone out on the bay a couple of hours earlier as planned. *But*, sooner or later, one of these storms will catch you. Just be prepared!


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## zeehag

smack--sounds like the stuff that hit us in the gulf for 3 days(seemed like 3 years!!)---fun to sail in but a ***** as regards weather!!! the light show is the scary part....if we could just bottle it up and sell it.............
our dodger is down and the rain hurt like crazy butcha cant just stop--gotta keep on......


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## smackdaddy

I hadn't thought about the Rain-Pain-Pain - good point. Yeah, next time I'll do exactly as you do and drop the sails completely and motor it (assuming I've actually left the slip).

I can also see how goggles would be advantageous in a stink.


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## smackdaddy

Here's the REAL DEAL - stolen from Labatt's blog with permission...



labatt said:


> I went to bed at 4AM and had the best sleep while under way ever. Knowing that Poppi, Chris and Casey were at the helm was very reassuring. The seas were still calm, so I was able to sleep in the forward berth. Having it all to myself, I sprawled out to the fullest extent. What a treat!
> 
> [Chris here... notice a pattern here? This was the start of both Poppi's and my sleep deprivation. Overnight we passed by the base of Delaware River, a major shipping channel. When Poppi first came on watch he commented that he couldn't see a ship to our right on the radar. I hit the "Zoom Out" button, and all of a sudden FIVE ships popped up on radar. After talking to Poppi and Casey after I slept for a couple of hours, they said they were glad when we were past the shipping lanes!]
> 
> Hunger and waves woke me up on Tuesday morning. The seas had picked up some and the boat was rolling a bit. They were coming from behind, so it was a rolling motion instead of an up and down pounding motion. I got up and made fried eggs and buttered toast for everyone.
> 
> [Chris here... Fried eggs and buttered toast from a woman who completed an Ironman??? Something must have been wrong here...]
> 
> During the day the waves continued to build. By the afternoon we had 5-7 footers coming from behind us. I was getting a bit more nervous and a bit less playful. We have dealt with this before, but when the seas build things become serious. It's not the 5-7 footers that scare me, it's the thought that they might get even bigger. The more we deal with big waves, though the less nervous I get. It used to be the 5-7 footers that scared the living daylights out of me. Now I'm fine with them. And you know what? If they get bigger we'll deal with it. It's just a lot less fun than a laid back, sit and enjoy a beer kind of trip.
> 
> Dinner on Tuesday night was interesting. The gimbaled stove was rocking to its fullest extent. I cooked up some pasta and vegetables. A jar of sauce was rolling back and forth on the counter waiting to be used. When everything was done cooking, I opened the jar of sauce and, not thinking, set it back on the counter. It only took a second before it hit the edge and started pouring onto the floor. Vodka sauce was everywhere. Luckily I caught it before we didn't have enough for our dinner. Let me just say that Vodka sauce is very slippery and it is hard to get out from between your toes!
> 
> Just before dinner, Chris pointed out a storm on the Sirius satellite weather. It spanned the whole northern portion of the east coast. It was decision making time once again. I just love making these decisions. It seems that every time we come to this point we choose the wrong path. Last time we chose to head in and we got nailed as we were entering the Ponce De Leon inlet. Our friend that stayed out on the ocean said it wasn't that bad. So, this time we chose to stay out. We had plenty of time to make it to Barnegat, but that inlet is known to be shoaly and only to be entered if you have local knowledge. The next inlet north was Manasquan which we wouldn't be able to reach in time.
> 
> We began the preparations. It was 6:00 and the storm was about 30 miles away. Sirius showed it moving our direction at about 12 knots. That gives us about three hours. By this time, thank goodness, the waves had died down quite a bit. The winds were coming from the south, and we had traveled to a point where there was land to the south, blocking the wind and lessening the seas.
> 
> Our weather forecaster said there would be storms, but nothing that packed a punch. Winds were likely to stay around 12-15 knots. But when you look at the Sirius weather and see large areas of red (worst intensity) you begin to doubt.
> 
> At 7:00 Chris, Poppi and I all donned our foul weather gear. We checked the deck to make sure everything was tied down. The storm was now 20 miles away. Two hours to go. I lay down in the cockpit to get some rest. If the storm wasn't bad, I would need to be rested for my 12:00 watch.
> 
> [Chris here... it was at this point I resigned myself to being up for the rest of the trip. I had only gotten about 3-4 hours of sleep the night before, none of it continuous, and I didn't nap during the day.]
> 
> Chris called the Coast Guard and asked what kind of wind was being reported at the leading edge of the storm. They said that NOAA was reporting 12-15 knots. I was napping in the cockpit at the time and gave out a small cheer.
> 
> [Chris here... one thing you learn VERY quickly when cruising is that the leading edge of a storm usually carries the biggest winds and the most lightning. In other words, it's the worst part of a storm. Normally, you should try to turn in a direction that will let the leading edge pass by you, preferring to allow a tail section to hit you instead. In this case, the leading edge was enourmous, and unless we could put a 1000hp engine into Pelican real quick, there was no way we were getting out of its way. Also, while the reds/oranges/yellows on the Sirius are a good indication of heavy weather, they aren't always perfect. Sometimes there is just a large amount of high level water density, and it shows up as orange or red. So, when the Coasties said the leading edge was 12-15kts I figured we should hope for the best but still plan for the worst. I figured we might get hit by some 30-40kt winds.]
> 
> At 8:00 the kids put themselves to bed. Chris, Poppi and I went over what we would do if high winds hit. The plan was to let out our Genoa just a smidge and heave to. This is a very common and extremely effective storm tactic. Basically you let out the sail at the bow of your boat while steering the rudder in the opposite direction. The two opposing forces balance the boat even in the very worst of wind and waves.
> 
> Part of our preparation was to reef the main sail. I don't remember exactly when we did it, but at the time the seas were still pretty high. In order to reef or decrease the size of the main sail, we have to turn into the wind. This is particularly fun when the waves are large. With the waves behind us, we have to first turn so we are parallel to them and finally facing them. For the brief moment you are parallel to the waves, the boat rocks back and forth quite a bit.
> 
> Poppi and I got the lines ready and Chris began the turn. When we were headed into the wind I let the sail down a bit and tightened the reef lines. Half way through this procedure the oil pressure light came on. This is much like the check oil light on your car. When it comes on you MUST turn off the engine. This was the worst possible time for this to happen. In order to continue reefing the sail, we had to keep the boat facing into the wind. Normally we use the motor for that. Now it had to be accomplished in high seas with a sail that was loose and half down. Chris did an excellent job building up some speed and bringing the boat back into the wind. With no motor, I only had a few seconds to finish reefing. While doing this, Poppi went below to check the engine. I was extremely scared because I didn't think we could sail the boat with a loose mainsail. I thought we were dead in the water. As it turns out, you can!
> 
> [Chris here... Kristen learned to have faith at that moment. I kept telling her not to worry - we're a sailboat first, and a powerboat if we need to be. Even with a partially reefed main drooping all over the place, all you have to do is turn down, get some speed, and then you can bring your nose back into the wind for a bit. The problem is that heading into the wind provides no lift on your sails. In other words, they can't push you forward, so eventually (very quickly) your speed drops to zero, you lose control, and you have to turn the boat in the appropriate direction to get some wind in the sails. Anyway, it was a bit tough keeping the boat in the wind, helping Kristen reef the main and keeping everyone calm at the same time, but we managed it. We guessed that if the storm hit us, we'd have winds in the 40kt range, so we put two reefs in the mainsail, bringing it down to about 65% of its normal size. We had talked a lot about heaving to, but I knew in my head that once the wind hit us there was no way we were going to be able to release just a small portion of our genoa (front sail). If we let out too much, the boat would be out of control. I was resigned to the fact that we'd be running if we didn't get the genoa out before the wind hit, but I refrained from speaking my thoughts.]
> 
> Poppi reported that we were quite low on oil and he added two quarts. We started the engine and no oil pressure light came on. As an added bonus, the funny zapping noise stopped as well.
> 
> So now we're coming up to 8:30 and the storm is seven miles away. The three of us are awake and ready. This could be nothing, or it could be really, really bad. We continue to talk about what to do in different situations. We're sticking with the heaving to tactic. The lines for the genny are untied and ready. Chris is steering and I am manning the main sheet. This is the line that controls the angle of the main sail. If we get slammed with a gust of wind, I need to let the sail out to spill the wind off.
> 
> Now it is 9:00. We still don't know what is about to hit us. I'm grasping to the earlier 12-15 knot forecast. But, based on our past experiences and the satellite weather, my gut says be ready. The seas are about 2-3 feet, calm by our standards. Chris says that the red portion of the storm is upon us. Our sail is double reefed and we can bring it down to a third reef if it becomes necessary. We have gone over heave to procedures. "Ninety degrees is out to sea." I keep repeating to myself. If we need to run downwind and lose visibility, we need to remember which way is away from land. We have two ships in sight. One is a faint white light and another is a larger yellowish light. They are quite a distance off and not too much of a worry. They move fast though, so we need to keep track of them. If the rain gets heavy, the radar can't see the ships through the raindrops. We will have to rely on our eyes.
> 
> [Chris here... the problem with the ship's location is that they were on a marked ship approach/departing lane to and from New York City. In other words, right this second we had two ships out there, but it could rapidly increase. We have radar on board, which we heavily rely upon when it's dark out or it's foggy, but when you have heavy rain the radar beams just bounce off of it and the screen is just filled with returns. In other words, when the rain hits, all you can see is the rain on the radar - not other ships. If we had to turn to run out to sea, we would potentially cross that sea lane after about 5 miles. With heavier winds, that 5 miles could be within 45 or less minutes, and that's a lot of time for new ships to show up. Anyway, it was just one of many thoughts going through my head. I was a nervous wreck as I watched the storm approach, as the unknown scares the, well it scares me.]
> 
> Up to this point we have been watching the lightning all around us. Oh yes&#8230;I forgot to mention the lightning. There was no thunder yet. This tells us that the lightning is far away. Knowing it was no threat at the time, we could enjoy the show. Poppi and I saw three streaks run across the sky at the same time, flashing rapidly 3-5 times in a row. These were strikes where someone could say, "Whoah!" and it would still be going when you turned your head. There were tons of cloud to ground strikes over whatever city was to our left. It was all heading our way. We were prepared and ready.
> 
> [Chris here... Prepared and ready is a relative term. So is "enjoy the show". I was watching the frequency, duration and brightness of the lightning and knew that it was more than deadly. When there's a streak, and you have enough time to turn to someone else on the boat and say "Look at that!" and they can still see it, you know you're in for a treat!]
> 
> It was sometime after 9PM, I'm not quite sure exactly when. Chris said, "Here comes the wind." With about a second pause between each number he calls out, "Twenty, thirty, forty." Between thirty and forty knots I let out the main sail. Chris said, "Don't let it out too far." By this time I had let our mainsail almost all the way out. We were in the thick of the storm. I was holding on to the mainsheet ready to let it out the last couple of feet if we needed to. "We're running now!" Chris yelled. All of our preparations to heave to were out the window. According to our wind meter, the wind was blowing at 50 knots (almost 60mph). There was no way we would be able to let the genny out now. I prayed that this was the worst of it.
> 
> [Guess who here! The wind hit us like a freight train. I barely had time to count it up to let Kristen know what was going on. It also shifted by about 120 degrees from where it was originally blowing. As I mentioned earlier, I knew there wasn't any way we'd be able to pull the front sail out safely. We could have done it, but it would have probably put us in more danger than running. We were fortunate that the seas were fairly low (2-4ft), otherwise running might have been a difficult option. When the wind first hit us, we had our mainsail sheeted in fairly hard (almost centered on the boat). As you come off the wind (turn away from the wind direction), you need to ease your sails out to let them catch the wind from behind you. The wind hit, and Pelican wanted to round up (head directly into the wind) due to the power in the sail. This is a natural state for a sailboat, but I had no interest in heading directly into 60mph winds. As I mentioned earlier, when you head directly into the wind, your boat eventually stops moving forward, and you lose control. Also, the sails and lines flog all over the place, potentially damaging themselves or other things around them. I couldn't imagine what our sails and lines flogging in 60mph winds would be like. Unfortunately, with the sail in so far, I couldn't get Pelican to turn downwind.
> 
> I yelled for Kristen to ease the main out and for Poppi to drop the traveller. This accomplished two things. Dropping the traveller changes the twist on the sail, making it so that more wind spills over the trailing edge. Letting the main out allowed me to turn the boat to keep the wind behind us. I've had people ask us why you run with a storm (i.e. keep the wind on your back). Think of it this way. You're a runner. There's a 10mph wind and you can run at 6mph. If you run facing the wind, it's like there's a 16mph wind hitting you, right? Now turn around and run at the same speed. Now it feels like there's a 4mph wind behind you. Running with the wind behind you reduces the forces on your boat and what's called the "Apparent Wind Speed", or the speed you "feel" when you account for your angle to the wind and your boat speed.]
> 
> Chris was holding on to the wheel and keeping the wind behind us. "Our boat speed is 8.4 knots." he announced. Darn, he broke the old record of 7.2 knots that I previously held. "8.4 knots," I thought. Holy Cow that's fast!
> 
> [Chris again... I saw 9.1kts at one point in time, but it was a quick blip and not sustained. This is WELL over the theoretical hull speed of our Passport 40. I just find it amazing that we only had a small smidgen of sail out and we were exceeding hull speed. I hate to say it, especially since we were in a somewhat dangerous situation, but I wanted to let out a bunch of WHOOPS of excitement while we were surfing downwind.]
> 
> "Where are those ships?" Chris said. Poppi and I looked around and saw nothing. If they got hit by lightening they would have generators for lights. The waves or wind must be obscuring them. There was no rain yet. We kept watching for them with no luck. "Don't worry," I told Chris. "They were far off".
> 
> Flashes of lightning started hitting around us. They were so bright in the darkness that it would take a second to get your bearings after they hit. We heard the crack of thunder seconds after the flashes. They were close. Luckily they never hit too close. Not once do I remember a flash and a boom of thunder at the same exact time.
> 
> I yelled to Chris, "If you head to the left, we'll spill some more wind off the sail." It was more of a question than a statement. I was trying to figure out what we would do if the wind got any stronger. I don't remember what his reply was. The boat was doing fine and I was scared, but not worried about our current situation. The wind seemed to be holding at 40-50 knots.
> 
> [Chris, yet again... did I mention the whoops I wanted to do? There aren't many times you get to surf in, what we thought at the time, 40-50 knots of wind with waves that aren't huge. Spill more wind off the sail? There was nothing we could do, other than to put a third reef in, that wouldn't damage Pelican or put us in (more) danger. I don't think I responded to Kristen. The only issue I had was that spray from the foam being generated by the wind kept coating our wood covered wheel and it made it really difficult to get a grip. I should have put my gloves on.]
> 
> We were all completely focused on our tasks. With the wind behind us and the sail almost completely out, I had to be ready for the accidental jibe. If the wind suddenly shifted, there is a chance the boom could wildly swing to the other side of the boat. If this happened with 50 knots of wind pushing the boom, it would most likely break something. I stood ready to pull in the main sheet to slow the sing of the boom and then quickly but gently let it out before the wind pushed the boat over. Thanks to Chris's expert steering I never had to deal with an accidental jibe.
> 
> [OK... moving forward, those little brackets mean "Chris here...". Anyway, "most likely break something" is a bit of an understatement. Literally, in the blink of an eye, the boom would have swung 140 degrees effectively carrying thousands of pounds of pressure. The possibility of breaking our boom, rigging and ripping our traveller off the deck would have been VERY high. I can't say my steering was "expert" though - Pelican pretty much told me where she wanted to go, and if the two of us disagreed we'd make adjustments to the sails until we came into agreement. A few times I had to hold onto the wheel for dear life to keep us headed in the right direction, but for the majority of the time Pelican was awesome - just tracked straight, and felt more like a sports car than a Volvo.]
> 
> After what seemed like 5 minutes I announced that the winds seemed to be dying down. Chris said that the red area had passed, but there was still a yellow area heading for us. I thought we were back to 5-10 knot winds when Chris said we were down to 25 knots. I looked at my watch and it was 10:30. At least an hour had gone by.
> 
> We stayed ready, but relaxed just a tiny bit. The worst was over. We made it. We left the sail up and gently sailed along for a while. In the distance the two ships appeared again. Chris gave us the stats. Max sustained wind was 48.4 knots. Max boat speed was 8.4 knots, but he swears he saw 9 at one point. Things didn't go exactly as planned but everything turned out OK.
> 
> As a side note, later the next day we were explaining our ordeal and telling about the 50 knot winds. "But wait a minute," Chris said. "That was apparent wind." We forgot that our knot meter was broken. The wind we were measuring was actual wind minus our boat speed. Because we were traveling in the same direction as the wind it measures less. So the true wind speed was our measurement plus the speed of the boat. That puts the actual wind speed at 60 knots. That is 70 miles per hour. Holy Cow! I have read stories about people caught in winds like that and wondered how they could possibly have dealt with it. Now I know. You just do. There is no choice. You call upon your experience and knowledge and crew and hope for the best.
> 
> [We found out later that they clocked winds of over 80mph in Central Park, New York City! Apparently, numerous trees were blown down, and they took over 1,000 lightning strikes in the city.]
> 
> For the rest of the night we went over the whole ordeal. We talked about what we did wrong and right, what we could have done if things became worse, and how fortunate we were. We each took turns sleeping a bit once the adrenaline loosened its hold.
> 
> [After being up for 36 hours with a total of about 3 hours of sleep, I zonked!]
> 
> As we approached the entrance to NY harbor, the ship traffic started to build. Two heavily lit boats were approaching us on the port side. As the first one went by, Poppi and I noticed something in the water. It looked like and overturned boat with two people standing on it. The charts showed no buoys there, and whatever it was was completely unlit. The second boat went by it and turned around. It circled the object once. We could tell that it was two poles sticking up with some sort of cone lying on its side between them. We guessed that it was some sort of debris from the storm. The other boat never called the obstruction in to the coast guard. We thought about going back to check it out, but I deemed it too dangerous. Once the lit up ship left, it was pitch black again and you couldn't see the object. If we hit it, we would be putting ourselves in danger. We decided to keep our course. We had had enough excitement for the night.
> 
> Our entrance into NY harbor was without incident. We stayed just outside the shipping channel, and let three to four huge container ships pass on our port side. When we approached the Statue of Liberty at about 6AM, I roused Poppi and the kids. At 6:30 we docked at Liberty Landing marina. It was good to land.


*http://blog.svpelican.com/*


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## lporcano

seeyahttp://35knots.com


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## smackdaddy

Now porc - THAT'S what it's ALL ABOUT!!! Very cool.

I blew my 110 with CharlieCobra on New Year's day. It was the most fun I've had sailing thus far. But I refused to marry him.


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## smackdaddy

Labatt, I especially love your urge to throw down a "Yeeehaaawwww!" when cranking along at 8.4 knots. That's awesome.


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## twinsdad

Sometimes there really are silver linings in these storms. In your case, it was stopping the Barry Manilow record!!!!


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## smackdaddy

Barry Manilow: the true and original FightClub Sailor. Actually, I think Surfesq WAS BM (and I don't mean Bowel Movement).

Dude, have you never listened to the lyrics of "Mandy"? That's got sailing all over it! Kind of like the "Old Spice" of horrible pop music.

Let me share...






If this doesn't make you want to die at sea in a huge freakin' storm...nothing will.


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## CalebD

Barry Manilow? Eeeew! Totally un-cool on so many levels. Please keep those memories to yourself!

Smacker,
I really enjoyed reading Chris' (er, Labatt's) entry in his blog of that storm that blew though NY City over a week ago. I ran to the computer to check the local radar and noticed that the nasty reds and yellows of the high cloud tops were mostly south of us, out on the ocean off the coast of No Jersey. Presumably SV Pelican was about 40 - 50 nm south of NY Harbor when the proverbial **** hit the fan. 
I enjoyed watching all the 100+ year old Red Oak trees sway in the winds that came through with an amazing lightning show. I estimated the gusts to be in the 40 to 50 range. I was kinda glad to be on land as I have been through at least one quick lightning storm while going through the East River a few years ago; it was really great to have a change of underwear and shorts after that experience. Actually, I went below and finished the remaining half sandwich I had not finished earlier. What else can you do? Someone is throwing 1 million volt darts at you and if they actually hit you, well, you need more then just clean underwear as if you are lucky you may be able to swim to shore; so eat, drink (a little) and be merry as you may need your strength. If you get to shore then you can make up for being abstemious.


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## ekenna

I have 4 bfs so far. You said beginner stories were ok so the first one was back in 1985 or 86. I had a sunfish which I had taken lake sailing. I had been lake sailing that size boat since 11 and was feeling my oats and looking for something more adventurous. I had set my sights on crossing the mouth of the potomac river from Virginia to Maryland. My wife Helen and I and tried before but only gotten about half way across. We started with the wind in the right direction and were moving along well when my wife remarks how all these bigger sail boats are heading back in the way we had come. I had only noticed how the wind had stopped and everything got glassy smooth. The calm before the storm. Thats when I saw the menacing dark clouds behind us and tried to turn around. With no wind the only means of propelltion was to work the tiller back and forth which I was able to get us turned around. (carrying a paddle was a lesson I didn't learn until no winds and tides did the teaching on the northern chesapeake years later.) Helen wanted me to flag down one of the passing sailboat but I refused because of foolish pride. Thankfully she did. And thankfully the wife on that sailboat twisted the guy's arm into helping us otherwise we would have been stuck out a mile out so out with no way to get to shore. It took 2 or 3 tries before we could grab a hold of the line as he circled us but finally we were on our way in. The sailboat was going to the left so we dropped the line a couple hundred yards out from the public landing. there was now a slight breeze so I thought we would make it just fine then suddenly we got a gust of wind that ripped the sheet out of my hands and with the sail pointed straight out in front of us we zoomed across to the opposite side of the cove from the landing. I had absolutely no control. we promptly scrambled ashore and I dropped the sail tied the boat to a tree ran to the car to wait out the storm. My wife refused to try that trip again. Although I did finally finish that trip with a friend.

Fast forward a lot of years and a lot of time on the sunfish on the northern chesapeake to 2004 (?). After taking ASA sailing classes beginner through bareboat we charter our first boat a 32 foot catalina out of Rock Hall,MD. I have these great plans. I picked out what looked like a great anchorage on the eastern side of Kent island. In the morning weather had said slight chance of showers. Late in the day we passed through the bascle bridge at rt 50 and mears point marina. Helen had said maybe we should stay there tonight. No I had this great anchorage surrounded by land on 3 sides. So we continue to this anchorage. First it was shallower than I thought and I could not get up into the little creek as far as I wanted. Not having ever been there I did not know there were only grasses on that land on 3 side. Ok as wave protection but no wind protection. So finally anchored with 7 to 1 slope in about 6 foot of water, going by the book I took my 3 bearings wrote down the references and bearings. A half an hour later check them again and things were find. So we get dinner and settle down to pinuckle and brownies for dessert. Then we hear the thunder and see lightning. Its 8:30 and dark. So I go back on deck and what the book doesn't tell you is be sure to pick references you can see in the dark ie that have lights on them. So I take new bearings. I let a little more rode out. We go back to playing cards. Then the winds hit followed by the rain (horizontal at times). Everyone gets in life jackets. The boat starts swaying back and forth. I had forgotten to lock the rudder. The wind would push the boat one way until it hit the end of the play in the rode and the boat would pitch on its side as it turned in the opposite direction. We all (wife, 2 teenage children and I) screamed and scrambled for the high side of the boat the first time. Remember I mentioned cards and brownies that were on a table. Well they were now smushed all over the floor making it slippery. We have a slight pause before the next sideways lurch where I was about to get the table stored. We spent the next 20 minutes or so running from one side of the cabin to the other. I was getting good at anticipating when the boat would do the flip. It was at this time all kind of thought go through your head like we're going to die and should we abandon ship? It was only a 100 yards to land in 2 directions. Somehow in the middle of this I poke my head out and confirm we are not dragging. The anchor was holding. Finally the wind dies down. I let out more rode and lock down the wheel. Round two starts still swinging back and forth although the angle of pitch of the boat was a lot less. Its now 10:30 and we were all exhaused be none of us wanted to chance sleeping. Clean up of the brownie mess started then but did not finish until when we had the vacuum cleaner prior to handing the boat over. The mention of sailing and brownies in the same breath still leads to groans. The kids sleep all the way to St Michael the next day and the rest of the trip was fine. While at St Michael we ran into a group from a yacht club that were also out on the hook during the storm. One guy's chartered boat was struck by lightning while he was running the motor to keep the boat straight. He said the winds where clocked at 65 mph.

Flash forward to this 4th of July weekend. I bought a new to me hole in the water (San Juan 28) north of Atlantic City which Helen and I moved to Bohemia rvier on the Chesapeake. All the gorey details can be found in another thread. This was our first time on the ocean. The forecast was 10 to 15 with 2 foot waves. We needed to do Atlantic City to Cape May in 1 day. The BFS factor was the boat I boat was not anywhere near the condition of the noes we chartered and several problems arose. The wind was probable 15 gusting to 20, the waves by mid afternoon at least 3 feet. We had the 150 genoa on and its heeling pretty good. Every time I try to do something Helen has to be at the wheel. She was white knuckling it and having a hard time keeping it on course. I tried to bring in the furler to reduce the genoa and it refuses to roll up. putting on a life jacket I go up on the ptiching deck to try to roll it up by hand. I give up on that. I try to reef the main but I can not get the eyelet down the the tack. Throw in here the fact the boat does not have a proper bilge and every so often I need to go into the cabin with a manual bilge pump and pump out the water from the stuffing box. Meanwhile Helen is hanging onto the wheel as much to keep her self from falling as to steer. I decide to drop the 150 genoa so again I don the life jacket and head forward. I grabbed the jib halyard and inched forward so I could pull the genoa on to the deck as I release the halyard. I had just gotten the jib down when the port outer stay came loose. There I was on the heaving deck sprawled on top of the genoa so the wind wouldn't catch it and take it over board with the turnbuckle flailing around just over my head. I made a desparate grab and for a while had the shroud in one hand and tried to secure the genoa with the other. I finally managed to secure the shroud and moused both sides. The rest of the event filled day you can read on the other thread (search atlantic city under cruising) 

Lastly 3 or 4th weekend in July Helen and I were trying fix some of the problems on the boat on our mooring. Sunday morning we did not listen to the forecast. I started to look at adding the 2nd battery and had pulled everything out of the port lazerrete. I decided I needed different cables so I went on the looking at the bilge pump placement. When I came up for air I noticed dark clouds and a wall of rain several miles away. They wind and waves were picking up. We put everything away closed hatches etc but decided to wait it out. We put on the radio. The usual marine forecast was interupted with a warning of severe thunderstorm in our area with winds up to 33 mph and another storm back home with 65 mph winds. The life jackets go on. Then another interuption with just 1 annoucement that a tornado was due to pass through the area within 15 minutes. Helen has trouble getting on and off the boat into the canoe we use to get to shore. thats why we were waiting it out. now in 30 mph winds I would have trouble getting in the canoe and I had doubts we could control it enough to get in. And of course the thought come. only this time they were verbalized. Do we abandon ship? Any tornado would be strong enough to throw cars around would be strong enough to pick 2 swimmers in life jackets out of the water. We hugged each other. I paced like a caged rat. The tornado never appears. At one point there was this rushing sound that Helen thinks was the "train" sound people say they hear but I think it was just high winds in the rigging. When the winds died down we left everything on the boat and paddled the half filled canoe to shore.


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## timebandit

To close for comfort.

Just a pic from a Mac site I ripped off.


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## zeehag

now THAT is a freeeeeeking sail!!!!!!!!


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## smackdaddy

Great stories ek!! Tornados and flailing turnbuckles? That's what I'M talkin' about!!

The Easties are trashing everyone else as far as I'm concerned. The 2009 BFS Cup poll is going up next month, so time is a wastin'!

Eurpies? Supersouthies? Westies? Where are you guys?


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## imagine2frolic

That's some serious pucker factor going on there.......*i2f*


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## chall03

especially in a mac


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## smackdaddy

Here's a good BFS from DrB...



DrB said:


> I survived, but it was probably not the "best decision".
> 
> I went out in the latest tropical depression that pass to the east of Cape Cod on Sunday night (Sept 6th).
> 
> We had sailed from Marblehead to P'Town on Saturday. Weather reports called for a great beach boat weekend Sat-Mon. Plan was to go to P'Town on Sat, Sunday over to Scituate, then back to Marblehead Monday. Sail to P'Town was nice and over glass smooth water. We had to motor half the time because of the time limit and we couldn't maintain a minimum of 4kt SOG.
> 
> Around 1 AM in Sunday morning, the boat was being tossed all over the place on the mooring. Winds were in the 30 kt range peak and 20 to 25 kt average. Not too bad, but I just thought it was the old sea/land air masses trading energy. We'll after an hour it didn't stop, and continued until at least 10 AM (when we left).
> 
> Forecast was calling for 20 kt winds, peak to 25 -30 with 5 -7 ft seas in Cape Cod Bay. Small Craft warning until 3 PM. Our boat is 33 ft, so just about the "small craft" limit. Seems the storm tracked a lot closer to the coast than predicted when we left on Saturday morning, hence the "new" weather. My crew and I discussed the scenarios of what to do. Wait till later, go now expecting the conditions to decrease, stay here and return to Marblehead the next day and skip Scituate. Everything on the forecast was completely in our skill set and experience, and everything in the forecast was very much underestimated.
> 
> We left the mooring, after seeing a lot of boats our size, and larger, and one or two smaller, leave under full sail, but decided to put up the main only with one reef. If that was too much sail just outside the harbor, we'd turn around and go right back to the mooring. If it was super nice, both sails go up.
> 
> Things went very well, we were doing 5+ kts on a near dead run, seas were only a few feet and the boat was doing great. We turned north around the souther tip of P'Town and headed north on more of a close reach . Still making good time with only a fraction of canvas up, just over 4kts and the seas were a little bigger, maybe 3 ft, and the winds in the 17 to 20 range, so nothing worth really sweating about. By the time we cleared the northern tip and were in open water, we were almost 8 NM away from the mooring. Course change to Scituate bearing (reach) and we were off.
> 
> We tried to sail, but the but speed suffered because of the lack of canavas and the increased seas, so we motor sailed to push us along. Goal was 6 kts minimum. I didn't want to put more canvas up.
> 
> About 45 minutes after our course bearing change, the wave height went from 3 to 5, then 7, then , 9 ft. When I looked a the the horizon, it resembled a dark blue series of moving bumps with an occasional white cap. My guess is that every 10 to 15th wave was 11+ feet. Fortunately the waves were slow big rollers and the frequency was long, Unfortunately, the seas were directly abeam to us. Our boat has an 11 ft beam. We steered by looking at the to our side and turned into the really big waves and then turned again on the back side to surf down them It was very tedious, stressfull, and energy draining, We each took turns steering for 3 miles for the 22 miles we had to go. It was windy, 10 to 17, but not a factor.
> 
> Had it got worse, we were in a little bit of a jam, as the nearest refuge was Plymouth at almost 15 NM away and almost directly a run with the wave direction. Boston was more into the wave direction, but an extra 10 (25 total) miles away. Going back to P'Town was not really and option.
> 
> In the end, everything worked out and now it is a story. We arrived in Scituate after 3 hours of wave battling the monstrous waves and 5 1/2 total. We rode into town on the launch we a few folks. Chit Chat about where everyone was from. We said Marblehead, but we came in from P'Town today. Today? was the typical response, followed by some version of "You're nuts and or stupid", but in a round about polite way.
> 
> So after being involved in something like that, it was good to do to get experience. I wouldn't necessarily go out and seek it to gain experience.
> 
> DrB


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## twinsdad

Smack, I think us Easties are pulling ahead for this season.


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## paulk

We were out on Sunday too, on the way from Maine to Connecticut. We reefed the main (first reef) off Portsmouth, NH Saturday night and rolled up the jib because it was simply slatting in the lee of the main. Seas built along with the wind until we were able to surf at better than 11 knots on some of them. The apparent wind went as high as 22knots with waves up to about 6-7 feet. When we got to the Cape Cod Canal several hours before the current was due to favor us, we figured we'd punch through anyway. We caught one wave at the entrance and carried it in with 10.4 on the speedo. Once in the canal things calmed down and we shook out the reef. Fun ride for us, but we did see a boat going the other way in the canal and figured they'd be in for a big surprise when they got to the Eastern end. We ended up sailing 254 miles in less than 48 hours, most of it under just a reefed main.


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## smackdaddy

I'd say you Easties are spanking the rest of the world. No doubt. Of course, it always comes down to the vote. And those Afghanis always have a trick or two up their sleeve.


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## johnshasteen

Ahhh SmackD - the easties think 20-25 knots of wind and 5-7 or 8-10 foot seas are BFS, so yes they'll move ahead. Down off the Texas coast, that's just a great day to go sailing, so no one thinks to mentions it.
Some of the big West Sails and Alajuela's down here don't even like to go out until the CG is guaranteeing at least 20 knots SE winds - they consider that entry-level, but adequate.


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## smackdaddy

You know, I'm glad you brought this up John...seriously. Because I have wondered about it...

For me, at least on a lake, 20 knots of wind is really a sweet spot. I fly a full main and a 170 genny (which is admittedly a bit much). I do have to mind the sheets - but 15-20 is just about perfect for my C27 (at least I like it). I do put in a single in the main at 25+, and a double at 30+, start getting seriously nervous at 40 - but I've really wondered about some thinking that 20 knots and 3-4 seas is scary.

NOW A CAVEAT - I've never sailed on the ocean, so I've never called anyone on this. I don't know. I'm a lake sailor. And "big" is always relative anyway...that's the point.

But here's my honest question...is 20 knots and 4 foot waves in the ocean scary? And if so, what makes it scary? Is it the fact that I don't have real waves/currents/etc. in the lake that lulls me into a false sense of "big freakin'"?

What am I missing here?


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## imagine2frolic

You're missing the ocean is what you are missing. Sailing lakes, rivers, and even bays. They do not compare! Mother Ocean is her own creature, and you need to accept what, and when she gives to you her moods.

Sailing the ocean is not for everyone. This BFS thread sometimes makes me smile, but we all have to start somewhere. I am not the best sailor, and that's for sure. I do take a lot of pride in sailing effeciently as I know how without endangering my vessel, self, and guest.

Sailing on the edge can give you a few thrills. Especially when you know help is close by. Try doing that out on the ocean when it's just YOU and the horizon along with 20ft. seas, or more.  ........*i2f*


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## smackdaddy

Yeah imagine - that makes sense. I know that I'm going to be hyper-conservative when I finally make it out into the blue. Because, you're right, sailing within a 1/2 mile of land in virtually every direction makes it easy to "swagger".

Also, I'll definitely grant you that I do things with my current boat, just trying to test out its behavior, that I definitely wouldn't do out in the ocean. Otherwise, what am I paying SeaTow for right?

But that said, now that I'm understanding the boat's behavior a bit more in relation to wind, I'm now really trying to get a bead on what exactly changes with the same amount of wind in the ocean. What gets scarier?

PS - I'm glad this thread makes you smile. That's what it's supposed to do. It's a celebration of sailing BS!


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## johnshasteen

SmackD, most lakes and bays are relatively shallow and cannot sustain larger seas - relatively small waves break or just become nasty chop . The Gulf, out beyond the 20-fathom line, and many other bluewater venues are deep enough to sustain the weight of quite large waves - they can build up without breaking. In the Gulf 5-7 foot seas are pretty much entry level and make for very comfortable sailing - particularly on a broad reach. Anything up to about 18-20 foot seas just whoooosh under you - and give you a little uuumph forward.
In both of the Force 10 storms we've been endured in the Gulf, with seas 28-30, the high winds blew spume off the tops of the waves, but they still didn't break. The only time the seas got ugly was near the end of the storms because the northerly wind driving the seas was subsiding as the prevailing SE wind was filling back in and the seas were mucho confused for several hours.


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## imagine2frolic

Sailing the boat effeciently is sailing the boat effeciently no matter where you are. It's about not breaking anything, and getting home in one piece, the boat, and the humans. I sail that way on the river here. Just as I do on the ocean.

You can get a way with BFS a hundred times, or more. When something gives what will you do then. A 170 headsail in 30 knots is plain stupid, and I don't care what point of sail you are on. I can't imagine using that sail in more than 15 knots, and even then the boat will be overwhelmed. What is it you are using to gauge the wind? A tool, or your own knowledge?

When something gives whose head will it come crashing down on? Yours, your kids, guest, or your wife? If you are alone it could very well be a death sentence. Surviving a BFS doesn't make you a good sailor. It makes you a lucky one. I know a lucky sailor when I read, or see one. I am a lucky sailor. I was thrown from Frolic in a storm while single-handing Mexico. All I can is I go nowhere without my harness, cuz ****** happens... .....*i2f*


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## smackdaddy

imagine...

I've only used the 170 in 15-20 max (as measured by the weather station at our lake - at water level). And though it's a lot of sail - it's not felt overwhelming to me. I've also had it up in 25 and it was too much - so I doused it. I've not flown the 170 in anything more than 20. Sorry, my writing wasn't clear above.

I've also flown the 110 in 25-30, both with a full and reefed main and it felt pretty stable though a bit overpowered. But it was sure fun.

Above 30, I've only sailed with reefed main to date and dropped everything one day when it hit 40. Too much for me.

I only have hank-on sails BTW - so I'm a bit lazy about changing them out. And they're not the newest, so I probably get a bit of a break there too.

Remember, I'm not advocating anything here - I'm experimenting. I'm just trying to push things as much as possible in as safe a manner as possible to find out what the boat will do in various conditions. Some might say that's looking for trouble. I think it's training and practice. And I've not broken anything major yet - even in 40 knots***. (Knock on teak).

Remember that BFS is relative - back to John's original point. And also remember that I'm the world's lousiest sailor - but I'm working on that!

(***Oops, I have to take that back, I blew a 110 when Charlie was sailing with me on New Years)


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## smackdaddy

Now that that's out of the way - what I REALLY want to know is what happened on that trip to Mexico dude?????

I SMELL A BFS!!!!


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## johnshasteen

I think your question was, how do we gauge the wind? Several ways - one is our windgauge - but that only reads apparent wind - not very accurate. The more accurate measure in the big storms we've been in has been the Coast Guard's knowledge from readings from the wind bouys out in the Gulf (they are out there because of the proliferation of oil rigs - they are stationary, so the readings are true windspeed over the bouy). Same for wave height - you have no way of guesstimating the wave heights - most people guess too big, but the CG calculates them based on the windspeed. That's why when we got back in Port Isabel from the March '08 storm, we thought the waves were in the 18-20 foot range, but Coast Guard Freeport said nope! 28-30 for the areas we were in.
Sailing, not racing, offshore with a big deck sweeper is a huge mistake, we sail with a 110 working jib.
On your other point of surviving a big storm is luck, not sailing skills - I have to disagree. I attribute our coming through both Force 10 Storms (as defined by the CG), it was 75% the sailing skill of three seasoned sailors (about 125 years combined) and 25% having a strong, well-prepared bluewater boat. The only luck we had in the second storm was bad luck - we got knocked down to cabin trunk grab rails and the sails in the water, the main, heavy with water, hung up in the spreaders and wouldn't douse (it eventually shredded) and a jib sheet got loose and went over the side, tangled in the prop and stopped the engine - how much more luck to you want. We ran before that storm for 36 hours with no engine and no sails, just the stern and bimini for sail area - still making over 10mph on the GPS when skidding down the face of the seas. What kept us moving and safe was the skill of our crew. 
If you want to see pictures of Paloma after that storm, go to my profile and check her out.


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## smackdaddy

Yeah - and whoever heard of a sailor that rounds _down_?

Those are some crazy pics, John. I still look forward to crewing for you one day soon, dude! I've got references BTW!

(PS - Gotta go. My "Captain Ron" dvd just got here!)


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## imagine2frolic

My point about surviving BFS was in reference to what I read here. A lot of stories I have read is the boat surviving the ordeal, and the crew hanging on. That was my point about luck.

I am not trying to beat anyone down. I worry about sailors getting hurt, and overwhelmed. I have seen some pretty stupid stuff while sailing. Unfortunately I was on some of these boats with people out of control. It can be some scary stuff, and especially when too much drink is involved.

You are suppose to push yourself. Calm seas do not make a good sailor. You need to know your capabilities, and your vessels too. I am going to make a comparison, and it's a bad one, but all I can think of for now.

Fighter pilots don't jump into the seat of a fighter, and go balls out. They start out learning the basics, and how to control the plane. Overtime they fly more powerful planes, and eventually they do combat manuevers, but it is a learning curve.

It's like Lynn Pardey wrote. Everybody wants to hear the war stories of sailing. Most people find the day when everything is just right. The autopilot on, and you can read a book in the shade of the sail while making excellent milage pretty damned boring.. .......*i2f*


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## lporcano

seeyahttp://35knots.com


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## imagine2frolic

Wind is wind, but open water as oceans and the Great Lakes, which in my thinking is an ocean, because there's fetch. It's just not salty. We can split hairs if you wish, but I think you completely understand my meaning........*i2f*


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## lporcano

seeyahttp://35knots.com


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## imagine2frolic

LOLOLOL,

I am in complete agreement, and a well made point. On S.F. Bay we lose sailors in 15 minutes if they are not plucked out of the water.

I wanted to sail to Asia from Florida, and my wife could not bring herself to do it. She looked at the charts, and just couldn't. She was afraid of the dangers, and I explained all that empty ocean is safer than all the sailing we had done between the Caribbean, Bahamas, and Florida. She SO READY now though, and hopefully by Christmas we will have put our ducks in a row, and go. As always time will tell........*i2f*


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## lporcano

seeya


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## twinsdad

One more vote for needing to be safe in all waters. There are times when you can, and should, experiment to push yourself harder. But those should be times when you really know what plan B will be. Like always, you need to take account of all the circumstances. For instance, I think most would agree that one should err on the side of less sail up when sailing at night because it is more difficult to anticipate wind changes and gusts.

On the other hand, how do you improve your skills if you don't test them from time to time. To use someone else's analogy, you don't move from a Piper to an F-18 in one shot. The same applies with sailing. When you can control it, you move up the difficulty chain gradually. Of course, most of us have run in to circumstances where we were unexpectedly challenged well above anything we had done previously. That often happens in the longer ocean voyages (I'll also include other big bodies of water like the Great Lakes), when you can't always control the conditions you will be in.

While I would agree that the Great Lakes count as comparable to the ocean, I have to somewhat disagree with the Hudson River comparison. I have lived near the Hudson my entire life. It is true that you can have dangerous conditions there, but it is far less likely - and more predictable - than in many other places. That doesn't mean one should drop one's guard, just that the Hudson doesn't belong in the same danger category as some of the other waters, in my humble opinion. Now talk about Hellgate, and parts of the East River and I think your point would be more relevant!!!!


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## bubb2

twinsdad said:


> While I would agree that the Great Lakes count as comparable to the ocean, I have to somewhat disagree with the Hudson River comparison. I have lived near the Hudson my entire life. It is true that you can have dangerous conditions there, but it is far less likely - and more predictable - than in many other places. That doesn't mean one should drop one's guard, just that the Hudson doesn't belong in the same danger category as some of the other waters, in my humble opinion. Now talk about Hellgate, and parts of the East River and I think your point would be more relevant!!!!


I keep and sail a boat on the Hudson and have been for the 10+ years. I have sailed through Hellgate at least a dozen times a season. I also have crewed 6 Chicago to Mac races.

There is no comparison. The great lakes (Michigan and Superior) are fresh water oceans. People that believe that Long Island Sound is big water have no idea! I have been in the gulf stream when the "elephants are marching." When the great lakes get angry, the only difference I have seen is the taste of the water coming over the rail.


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## johnshasteen

I've sailed in big lakes and bays, but if you've not had the good fortune to sail in the Pacific, Atlantic, or the Gulf of Mexico - in deep blue salty water with a 250-500 mile wind fetch driving beautiful rolling waves - that typically don't break even at 25-30 foot heights, you've missed the sailing opportunity of a lifetime.
In the last storm we were in, the other two crew were 30++ year experienced Great Lakes sailors and have sailed in some really bad weather in their time, were amazed that waves could be that big and not break. There is a difference.


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## bubb2

The Great Lakes were known to deepwater salt sailors as the "Lakes of Amerikey". Salt water sailors looked down on the Great Lakes sailors as "farm boys" who were sailing around in puddles and certainly a tall ship sailor was superior to one of those "teakettles" (steamboats). They thought that until they tried sailing the Lakes.

The Great Lakes are quite possibly the most dangerous waters on earth. Storms roar off the Great Plains at hurricane force with very little warning. It was the dangers of Great Lakes shipping that created the National Weather Service.

Unlike the ocean, there is always a "lee shore" only hours away. The water of the Lakes is more likely to go "green" and build up topside until the boat "turns turtle" . A phenomena like the "Three Sisters"- three waves to the aft of a ship in rapid succession, could drive you into the bottom, as is suspected of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Finally, a sailor in the water was more likely to die of hypothermia sooner or sink since salt water is more buoyant and is a more consistent temperature. The Great Lakes are a treasure to cherish and a beauty to behold, but a healthy respect for their power is also wise. - David HB Drake

Come all you bold young sailor lads who sail the briny breeze 
And heed my tale of the men who sail the boats of the inland seas 
You that scoff and jeer at the sailors here and think they have such ease 
When the journey's short from the inland ports In the Lakes of A-mer-i-key 
If you take your fleet where the water's sweet, there's something you should know 
No quarter's shown when the gale wind's blowing' and the sky has filled with snow 
When your decks are froze and the rail dips low there's nowhere left to flee 
Then from bow to stern make a turtle turn on the Lakes of A-mer-i-key

*CHORUS:* 
So say a prayer for those who dare to sail on the fresh north seas 
If you drink too deep you'll forever sleep in the Lakes of A-mer-i-key

There's times I've seen when the water's green and the waves begin to freeze 
That a close haul tack makes a wood hull crack from her scuppers to her knees 
As you leave the boat and you try to float, no salt gives buoyancy 
There's a waiting grave in the cold dark waves of the lakes of A-mer-i-key

*CHORUS:* 
So say a prayer for those who dare to sail on the fresh north seas 
If you drink too deep you'll forever sleep in the Lakes of A-mer-i-key

The winds come down with a wailing sound and the weather changes fast 
it's a tempest in a teakettle as you run from the icy blast 
And the calm will change to a mountain range as the whitecaps curl and break 
Then the Sisters laugh and kick your aft to the bottom of the lake.

*CHORUS:* 
So say a prayer for those who dare to sail on the fresh north seas 
If you drink too deep you'll forever sleep in the Lakes of A-mer-i-key


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## johnshasteen

bubb2, you're right about the dangerous waves on the Great Lakes - that's why our two crew from the Gt Lks were amazed that 30 foot seas on the briny were still giant rollers and not breaking.


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## paulk

Wind just seems to keep on coming. 
Left the harbor yesterday for a 60-mile race. Wind was blowing about 10-15 in the harbor, and the report was for some fronts to possibly come through, boosting it up to maybe 22 before shifting a bit and beginning to fade. 

The race started at 19:30 in about 20 knots of breeze and rain with eleven boats close hauled on port tack to the first mark, about a mile away. We were somewhat surprised to find a 120' three-masted ketch powering in the other way in the dark. Probably not as surprised as they were to have to slalom through a tightly packed racing fleet of 35' to 50' boats in the wet dark. The real surprise came when the fleet reached the first mark, and the wind picked up to 30 or more and stayed there for the next five hours as we beat to our rounding mark, (Falkner Island) some 30 miles away. We had reefed the main on the first leg, but didn't relish changing the jib with the bow digging into 5-6 foot waves (an unusual size in well-protected Long Island Sound), made steep by the the tide running against the wind, especially with the weather report calling for a quick switch to a fading northerly. Most of the fleet retired early and their crews ended up crashing the "sailors' widows" party- another surprise. Our crew spent the night over on our ears, with salt and fresh water sluicing over the deck. We ended up blowing two full-length battens out of the main, and ripping it from luff to leech above the second batten by the end of the night. With the damaged main not providing much drive, we needed the #1 jib to provide power to get through the waves, so we left it up. 
When the breeze and rain finally did begin to fade we were headed downwind with the spinnaker, made squirrelly because of the poor flow over the reefed main. (A dangling batten kept us from shaking out the reef because it fouled the spreaders.) At the finish line we took second. Another race comes up next week - a daylight race this time. Should be fun!


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## smackdaddy

Wow Paul - sweet BFS! Bummer about the sails - but that sounded like a race to remember.

I can't imagine racing at night. That amps everything up a few notches I imagine.

Thanks for the write up dude. Easties rock.


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## blt2ski

Nice to see someone getting some wind! Our last two races have been cancelled due to lack there of! smooth as baby's bottoms were the seas

Maybe in two weeks.....


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## smackdaddy

C'mon Bluto - you got to get out there a represent for the Westies!! Where has GeorgeB been lately? Hopefully he's pulling something big down as we speak.


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## smackdaddy

A newb's BFS....

I'd say chalk one up for the Lakies.



SpcAlan1 said:


> Here is a description of yesterday's sailing day.
> 
> Supposed to been light winds on Lake Lanier, Georgia.. 3-4 MPH
> 
> Turned out to be 10+, which is great and to where I was going ( Buford Dam ), that means I would be sailing downwind 90% of the way ( which I suck at ). But hey, today is a new day.. Plus I have never been to the dam before.
> 
> I moved my jib cars forward and unrolled my genoa. This created a huge pocket ( almost looked like a spin sail haha ).
> 
> I pushed my boom perpendiculur to the boat and back-fed a line to keep the boom from swaying all over the place. Which worked great.
> 
> Started out great with both sails quite full, until the boat started rocking left-right, left -right.. i felt like I was in a death roll, and instead of sh*tting my pants, I let de-powered my genoa and rolled it up 'alot'. That fixed the wobbles ( is that normal ???? ). I guess that is what it is called ( death roll ).
> 
> We are making awesome time.. I am a noobie to sailing and I was impressing myself and girlfriend.. just as the wind changed and the line that kept the boom from going 180 degrees across the boat, snapped and the boom came flying around ( yikes ). of course, our heads were down as always, but I saw the boom move, and I had time to say sh*t, and then it snapped. So in .5 seconds I pulled as much main sheet as I could to limit the boom swing, which worked well. Maybe next time I will use a stronger line ( and pay attention to the wind ).
> 
> The #1, #2, #3, #4 rule on my boat and I instill this to EVERYONE on my boat, is to keep your head down. I bug the living sh*t out of everyone on my boat, but hey.. it could save your life one day.
> 
> So we made it all the way to the dam, took some photos, and headed back from a great day of sailing.
> 
> Just my story...


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## GeorgeB

*Rolex Big Boat Series on San Francisco Bay!*

Just got done with doing SEVEN races over the last four days on the CAL 40. We were participating in the Rolex-Saint Francis Yacht Club's Big Boat Series, arguably the premier regatta on the left coast. Boats came from as far away as Honolulu (Ragtime was there!) and <ST1Canada</ST1. A team from <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com







Honolulu</st1:City> (Ragtime!) and <st1:country-region w:st=" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><ST1Japan</ST1</st1:country-region> raced on a borrowed J105. Had winds anywhere from 10 kts TWS to over thirty and it wasn't uncommon to have the winds change by 15 knots on a single race. We never had to do a peel away on the course but did a lot of jib changes during the spinnaker legs. Two races a day meant eating lunch quickly while delivering the boat to the next starting line. As mainsheet trimmer I hardly got a break at all and my hands are all but crippled up with rope burns and such (7:1 block and tackle, no winch as that slows you down). During one race, we were tacking down the City front and Vincitore, a R/P 52, driven by Chris Dickerson,cut between us and the <st1laceName w:st="on">Aquatic</st1laceName> <st1laceType w:st="on">Park</st1laceType> breakwater, a scant 30 feet away, yup, cleared both us and the concrete by maybe 18 inches on either side. Those rock stars got nerve and an excellent sense of time, rate and distance! Ourselves, we had a shot at second, but never could recover enough from a "bad" day on Friday. Still, the beer tastes just as sweet being drunk out of a third place Rolex trophy! The Regatta was being filmed for a Cable TV program so we had lots of camera boats and helicopters buzzing around us during the races. This shot is from one of the starts (you can see the smoke from the gun on the committee boat.) We're the "72" boat in the middle of the frame (I'm second from the left in the cockpit.) The boats in the top of the frame are desperately trying to not to be over early by briefly turning down the line.









fficeffice" /><O></O>


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## smackdaddy

WOW! INFREAKINGCREDIBLE GB!!!! I knew you were up to something big. Great job on the race dude. Let us know where we can catch the show.

The Westies score big...with PICS, A FREAKIN' TROPHY, AND A TV SHOW!


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## painkiller

Look out, George, that powerboater is shooting at you!!


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## jkimberly

My company is celebrating their 25th anniversery and so we had a dinner cruise in NY Harbor that didn't end till about 11:00pm Sunday night. I live in CT and it took till about 2:00am to get home so I decided to take Monday off.

Monday was forcasted to be near 80 with less than 1' waves on LIS with winds WNW to about 15. As this might be one of the last 'good sailing days' before hauling the boat, I took a vacation day. I left Milford Harbor at about 10:30am headed towards Branford on a nice comfortable downwind run. Not another boat in sight (not counting the oystermen). Looking around as I passed NH Harbor channel, it seemed that the wind was picking up and the sound was starting to exhibit whitecaps. Figured I'd turn back about then.

I have a 26' Seafarer and, while I've been out in it in 'stupid' bad weather, this was the first time I ever saw water splashing over the bow. The seas quickly built up to 4-5' rollers coming pretty close together and I'd estimate the wind at about 20knots with higher gusts had now shifted to directly out of the west. I was able to hold a tack from my turning point almost into Charles Island. What a ride! It took me 2 plus hours to get to the NH harbor channel where I turned around and one hour to get back to Charles Island. 

The GPS was telling me I was doing near hull speed SOG, had the FM playing LOUD, eyes as big a saucers, playing the wheel up and over those waves all the way back! Most of the ride back was at 30 degrees of heel with the occasional dip of the lee toerail. I hit one set of rollers that put spray and water up and over the foredeck, running down both sides of the deck where it ran off.

Good thing the Admiral wasn't with me! I'll freely admit that I usually prefer the 'lazy' day sails where I can jump below to tend to what-ever if needed (none of that Monday!) but Monday had to have been the BEST sail of this season. I might even have knocked off some of the barnacles that seem to be infesting this part of the Sound this year.

Anyway, that's my BFS . . . 

jk
s/v Puppy Feet 2


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## smackdaddy

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about jk! There's something intensely exhilarating about a major barnacle knocking. No doubt.

Nice BFS dude.


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## PCP777

Yesterday was complete metal on the water. 25 gusting to 30+ knts, big waves, nasty weather. What a BLAST! We were racing Swale, an S2 7.9 on Lake Ray Hubbard for the normal Wednesday night beer can race. Many of our normal competitors didn't even go out so the racing fleet was about half as big as it normally is. I guess they were scared... We got out of the marina and as soon as we did we knew we were in for some craziness, the 100% jib filled and dipped our toe rail. We were totally over powered at times but we decided not to reef the main which proved to be a good decision though it made for some "sporty" sailing....

We had the spin ready to go but wisely decided, seconds before the start, to run wing on wing instead on the opening down wind leg. You can see in this picture what happened to Hotsy Totsy, a J-29 in the back ground....



















We ended up tacking away from the fleet on the windward leg which was a good thing. The waves were bashing us and between the spray coming over the bow and the rain we were all soaked. The entire time we were heeling at 30+ degrees but still made great time.

We missed first place by nine seconds to a Viper 840 called Rented Mule. (They actually ran the first leg with spin successfully without broaching.)

Some straight up balls out racing! A BFS for sure!

Here's the crew soaked and happy last night, on our way home.










Your author and BFS aficionado


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## smackdaddy

OH MAN!!! That is SICK!! And pics to go with it!

The Lakies just scored BIG TIME!! Eat yer freakin' hearts out Easties!

I love the J29 laying down in the background. Ouch! What is that boat in the first pic? That's a beauty.

Great job bring one home for the Lakies PCP. You are THE MAN!!


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## PCP777

smackdaddy said:


> OH MAN!!! That is SICK!! And pics to go with it!
> 
> The Lakies just scored BIG TIME!! Eat yer freakin' hearts out Easties!
> 
> I love the J29 laying down in the background. Ouch! What is that boat in the first pic? That's a beauty.
> 
> Great job bring one home for the Lakies PCP. You are THE MAN!!


Thanks bro, I'm not sure what she is, but she actually hung with us for most of the down wind leg, fast *and* a classic design. When the race results are posted, I'm sure I can figure it out. I haven't seen her race before so I'll let you know.

What's funny about the night pic with the crew, look at the lights in the background. That would be the Hilton Hotel, or the horizon. Now look how laid back we are, Tecate in hand. I guess at that point, 30 plus degrees of heel is just old hat.

*BFS FTW!*


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## PCP777

More pics from committee from this same race. I had thought that the boat that broached was a J29, turns out it was an Evelyn 32. Even though these pics aren't too clear, they do show the level of high pucker that was going down. Oh, the other good news is we did indeed take first place on A fleet.


















Swale in front of the Evelyn 32 battling for first place. We took them by 51 seconds.










The Viper and the J29 (The J29 did lose a head sail in this race)


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## chall03

Nice pics PCP!! 
I do love racing when it is like this.


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## twinsdad

Looks to me like there was some great fun out there. There was also some pretty questionable sailing. That much heel (the boat in the pic, not you) is evidence of someone who didn't sail appropriately for the conditions.


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## PCP777

twinsdad said:


> Looks to me like there was some great fun out there. There was also some pretty questionable sailing. That much heel (the boat in the pic, not you) is evidence of someone who didn't sail appropriately for the conditions.


That boat has a good skipper and crew so I'm not sure how they got in that position. We ALMOST flew our spin ourselves but opted out right before the down wind start. Another boat, the Viper, flew it's genniker successfully on the first leg.

I agree, it was a questionable decision. It was very gusty out there.


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## smackdaddy

Hey PCP - one thing I'm still trying to learn is good sail trim on a run. It looks like "Rented Mule" has their main sheeted WAY out. How do you balance your main and jib so that the main isn't shadowing the jib - and when do you decide that it's okay to do it? Or does it matter that much?

Are they flying a spin too? I can't quite tell.


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## twinsdad

One strategy is to go wing on wing, having the main and jib on opposite sides. This prevents the shadowing. You may want to use a pole to keep the jib shape better. Hope this is helpful.


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## NaviGsr

smackdaddy said:


> OH MAN!!! That is SICK!! And pics to go with it!
> 
> The Lakies just scored BIG TIME!! Eat yer freakin' hearts out Easties!


At least on a lake it's still a chop. Imagine controlling your sails on a run like that that with following swells rolling you around! uke


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## smackdaddy

Okay Navi - I smell a BFS. Out with the story!


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## PCP777

smackdaddy said:


> Hey PCP - one thing I'm still trying to learn is good sail trim on a run. It looks like "Rented Mule" has their main sheeted WAY out. How do you balance your main and jib so that the main isn't shadowing the jib - and when do you decide that it's okay to do it? Or does it matter that much?
> 
> Are they flying a spin too? I can't quite tell.


I think this pic was while they were taking down the spin. As twinsdad said, wing on wing with the pole is the best option. That's what we did and it worked for us on Swale.


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## blt2ski

Had a race yesterday, 15-25 knot winds,,,,,,, one crew brought a friend along for his first sail........yes indeedee, great initiation..........only to find out he gets motion sickness!ukeOh well, I guess that is what the sink is for!LOLOL

Marty


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## smackdaddy

Big Freakin' Spew, eh Bluto? Hey, did your kids do that race you were talking about?


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## blt2ski

That is this saturday, ie "Foulweather Bluff" THey are looking forward to it, unless the winds are over about 20-25, then they will sit out, a bit too my BFS for them on their first time out by themselves, this is per the admiral! ie my wife! and the cabin boy ie me! Trying to find one more to go out with them, so they have 5 on board instead of 4. Make things a bit easier if things really start to rock if you will. Weather does not look toooo bad at this time........but a lot can happen in 5 days!

It will be a BFS no matter the wind for them! ie first time out by them selves.


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## djodenda

Thanks for serving as RC for the big race, Marty...

Hope and I, and probably Mark will be out as well....

David


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## NaviGsr

smackdaddy said:


> Okay Navi - I smell a BFS. Out with the story!


It's really not any great story.

That last post made me think back to when I used to race 420's. If you aren't familiar, they look like this:










We were sailing on the first day of one race week right after an early Nor'easter had come through and there was PLENTY of wind. The first course for the day was a modified triangle (the kind with the extra windward leg.) The start and up to the windward mark was fast and fin with fairly flat seas thanks to the shelter of a nearby island which I believe was how they had intentionally set up the course.

We came down the first reach leg and had gained on the lead boats after a poor start. As we jibbed around the second mark we were all hauling along neck and neck for the lead. We had been paying so much attention to rounding that we hadn't noticed that this side of the course was suddenly out of the shelter of the island and the towering rollers left over from the storm were coming at us just off our stern. We were all able to ride the waves a bit, but because there was so much air, we were moving nearly as fast as the swells. Being the good dingy racers we were, we had, of course, eased our boards up about half way.

So we're moving along, 3 lead boats in the pack, fully hiked looking pretty much like this:










And as we inch closer to the leader in front of us, I get the bright idea that I'm going to sit on him as best I can despite how hard it is to control the boat. I try to time the swells just right, and as we close in I head up as we surf down a wave and end up right on top of him, cutting his air.

Before I knew what had happened, the next wave came in and hit my fully hiked crew squarely in the ass, lifting him off the trap and swinging him around the mast. Without the weight, and the board partway up, the boat went right over, nearly going end over end, and tossing me into the water as well.

Needless to say we DNF'd and screwed up plenty of the boats behind us as well, who did not fair too well after hitting the swells themselves. The RC called off the race after it became clear the course was a bit hazardous, and we restarted a bit later once the marks had been moved further into the lee of the island.

But not really a crazy story, that's just what it's like racing dinghies.


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## smackdaddy

Great story Navi! Dinghy racing does look like a lot of fun. It's good to see some BFS from the racing world.

Let's raise our glasses to the old roller in the ass!


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## smackdaddy

And speaking of racing BFS - here's another by the bold newb Mauryd...



Mauryd said:


> Thanks Caleb,
> 
> One thing that I should point out is that the Mac race story I told you all about was last year. We had a very fast race. Lots of wind all the time and building on the second day.
> 
> This year was pretty much a drifter save one nasty mini storm we were in on the first day.
> 
> So there I was.... trimming the 1/2 ounce again when we were going in between storm fronts. At the time we had the light air sheet on. As we looked into the storm we were approaching we could see lightning flashes. I said "so there I was headed into a storm, and trimming the half ounce with a light air sheet". Everybody started laughing and Billy, the skipper, scratched his chin and says "you may have a point there". So we got the heavy air sheet back on and Peter took the kite from me for a bit so I could get my foulies on like the rest of the crew. No sooner then I get my gear on then it started to rain. I took over the kite again and the weather just kept building quickly. In what seemed like 10 minutes we were in the storm. I was looking up, of course, when a lightning flash caught my eye. It started directly above the tip of the mast and shot out in two directions with the mast at the center. Of course it wasn't close to us, just overhead, as I am still writing to you. It was awesome. Then the wind built up quick and I mean quick. Before I know it the 1/2 ounce blew, again, in half. We brought it down in a torrent of rain and wind. It was pouring so hard it felt like weights on my back as I scrambled around the deck dragging in the kite and putting up the storm jib. It was intense. But it was over about as soon as it started. I don't think the whole lasted 20 minutes. Maybe that's just my perception/memory playing tricks on me though. I do know that it in no time at all we were losing wind, and boat speed, fast. We were going from storm front to storm front for a little while at that time. We were sailing like at the tips of fingers on a giant hand. After that last storm and before we reached the next one, we sent Captain Billy up the mast to retrieve the kite head and halyard. We had to grind quick so we could get him down before it started rockin' again. This done, we promptly went into another little patch of rain and wind.
> 
> Other than fog at the rounding, and having some boats coming out of the the fog heading directly at us in their search for the mark, the whole thing settled into a drifter. We had flies by day and cold by night to torment us. It took us 2 1/2 days to get to the finish line. Compare that to 1 1/2 days last year. About 300 miles. We won't talk about our placement in the finish.
> 
> Upon landing we promptly set to squaring away the boat and that done, we promptly set to drinking the island dry. We started by arriving about an hour before last call at the Pink Pony (a sailor's bar by the docks at Mackinac Island) and back to the boat to eliminate the stores of beer on board. I'm happy to report that I did my share and the mission was unsuccessful! We kept trying though and I'm confident that we did manage to put a serious dent in the alcohol supplies on the Island with the help of the 200 or so other race boats in port at that time. :laugher
> 
> On a more serious note, I didn't manage to find Sailor Jerry's on the island anywhere during our stay.
> 
> Maury


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## PCP777

I don't know if I ever posted this before but this is a nice BFS video....and the sound track completely rocks unlike many of the sailing videos I find...

YouTube - extreme sailing


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## smackdaddy

Man I love this site. Another great BFS from AMac...



AndrewMac said:


> I was hoping that you all could help me out with some feedback on handling heavy weather. I am realtively new to SN and in previous posts have mentioned that, while I have 25 years sailing experience, it has almost exclusively been as a day sailor within the shelter of Penobscot Bay. My father and I recently upgraded to Decision - a Baba 40, Bob Perry design out of the Ta Shing Boat Yard, cutter rig, 40' LOA, 12'10" beam, 29,000 lbs displacement) with the intention of doing more cruising. To that end, I returned yesterday from a 5 day, 4 night sail around Penobscot, Jericho, and Blue Hill Bays.
> 
> I had one realtively inexperienced crew with me for the first two days. The first day was mild 10-15 knots and we made it to Isle au Haut and anchored in Duck Harbor beyond which lies the gulf of Maine. My intention was to drop out into the Gulf on Day 2 and, with a forecast NW wind of 30 knots, hoped to make it down to Winter Harbor on Schoodic Point, a distance of about 35 nm to the northeast (I needed to travel more easterly for about 20 nm, then turn nne for 15 nm once I cleared the Duck Islands and headed to Winter Harbor) . As we came out from under the lee of Isle au Haut, it was immediately apparent that the winds were higher than forecast at 35 knots gusting to 40. As we moved further into open water the wind built so it was a steady 40 with gusts over 45. I had headed out under staysl only with the equivalent of one reef in the main (have inmast furling for the main - btw, kept remembering the inmast furling debate that CD started and thinking "I really don't want this thing to jam right now ). I immediately put in the equivalent of a second reef and, as the wind built, a third reef shortly thereafter, but left the staysl up. With the northerly wind, my point of sail was slightly above beam-on.
> 
> My problem was wave height/period. The seas had been forecast at 4-6 ft which didn't overly concern me, but they ended up larger - I would put them at 7-10 (the observation buoy a couple miles further south recorded 13), very steep and tightly packed together and seemed to be starting to break. We were a couple hours into it and getting smacked around a fair amount at this point, took a couple of waves across the bow and then dropped off a couple waves - not a complete drop-off I suppose, but certainly not something I had experienced before. At this point I came as close as I care to a knock-down. It wasn't a knock down, the sails didn't go in the water, but we went way over to the point where some sea came into the cockpit on the leeward side (hard to do in this boat). I had enough, changed course and beat up under the outer most islands (Marshall and Long islands) to get cover from the sea (this put me in Toothacher Bay, which i had to laugh at) - took me a good 3 to 4 hours to go about 3 nm. Oh, and I put the engine on, took in the staysl and let out a reef in the main. While we had to cross those conditions a couple more times to work our way back into Jericho Bay, once I made Marshall Island, I was largely able to leadfrog from the lee of one island to the next - didn't cut the wind much, but the sea was more manageable. We were picking up another crew member that night and I emailed him to change the place as we weren't going to make winter harbor. Sorry, this is getting long - a couple questions that came out of this:
> 
> 1. Was going beam-on a dumb idea in those conditions?
> 2. Beating into the waves/wind was no fun (buried the bow a couple times, another first) - I actually considered falling out into more open water - this would have allowed me to be on a close reach straight to Winter Harbor. My thinking was: (a) that if I got further from land, the seas might have more room to separate and be more manageable - I have no basis for this, but was briefly tempted by my theory - does that make sense to anybody?; (b) I Could be on a close reach, which seemed preferrable to beam-on or close-hauled and (c) I could still make my intended destination.
> 3. Did I leave the staysl up too long, or maybe I should have left it out for the duration for better balance.
> 4. My dumbest move - not pulling up the tender and lashing it to the deck before we left - my greatest fear once I was out there was that a wave would flip the inflatable and I'd end up having to just cut it loose - was amazed that it just bobbed like a cork and never was an issue.
> 
> Any thoughts about what I should have done differently would be appreciated. Sorry this got so long..


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## smackdaddy

Here's an epic BFS from our pal sneade (edited for the children)...



ssneade said:


> this happened years ago, "85" i think. as i've said before i was a powerboat man, anyone who would _sail_ a boat for pleasure was not quite right in the head. besides, who in the hell wanted to go pleasure boating after you've been on the water for ten hours either fishing pots, scraping, trotlining or oystering.....
> 
> i did, however have an interest in dredge boats. my paternal grandfather was the owner of three at one time, and my maternal great grandfather and his son built them around the turn of the twentieth century 'til the mid fifties. it seemed amazing people could make these huge wooden things move without them turning upside down....
> 
> anyways, the eighties proved to be a turning point in my life. i drank heavily, and i doped even heavier. after selling my workboat to buy dope, i finally decided the dope had to go. the firs hundred dollars i saved went to purchase a fourteen foot racing scow. i hadn't a clue what it was, i only knew it had sails and i wanted to satisfy my curiosity of how the other half lived.....
> 
> the first couple of excursions i'll bet were a sight to see. apparently i didn't know which side of that thing was supposed to be on top of the water. nobody would give me any pointers, but there were a lot of people pointing their fingers and laughing their asses off. i didn't give up. i finally got used to holding the main sheet in one hand and the tiller in the other. the day i made my first successful tack i stood up and crowed. yeah, crowed. jibing was a completely different story. that freakin' boom whacked me in the head and knocked my butt overboard more than a few times.....
> 
> after a while my friends quit laughing and wanted to take a ride on my newest thing to do. one particular cloudless afternoon, i decided it was time to take her on an epic journey. so me and a bud got a case of beer and left out of goose creek with winds about twelve knots southwest. about five miles across the manokin river and through the thoroughfare to the the bar at the last chance marina. on the way, was my first experience with her planing. i hauled in the sheets an leaned back and man alive! we were quartering two foot seas, sometimes it seemed like we would skip one. what a rush. we were probably running fifteen mph at times.....
> 
> so after beers and shots, it was time for the next leg, which was to cross the chainshoals, the shipping channel in the sound to the entrance to holland straights. about half way i noticed it looked like we were sitting a little heavier in the water than normal. this thing has a sealed hull, so i don't have any idea i'm taking on water. about a mile from sound point, we're settling good. i told brian we had serious problems, he allowed if he died, he'd kill me. about a hundred, hundred fifty feet from shore, down she went. brian's screaming "I'm gonna drown", crying like a baby. i said "stand up and die like a man". that dumbass didn't know we were in only four feet of water. dragging a sunken boat onto a bank requires a feat of strength that could only be accomplished by two drunk sailors, so it was easy for us....
> 
> although we managed to start draining the boat, we weren't prepared for what hit us next. a freakin' cloud of green head flies. OMIGOSH the pain was unfreakinbearable. we had to jump overboard in order to keep from getting eaten alive. so here we are. boat's on the bank, beer's on the bank, smokes on the bank and we're in the drink trying to survive the flies unending assault.....
> 
> i finally gather up the courage (as it was getting late in the afternoon) to see if i could find the leak. it appeared the rudder bracket had worked loose from the stern while doing the planing earlier and water was entering the hull around the joint. eight miles from home. no tools no sealer no nothing. i had an idea, so screaming i charged the boat. (screaming does absolutely nothing to deter greenheads) i grabbed the drain plug and put it back, with the other hand i was stuffing marsh mud into the gap between the rudder mount and the stern. by this time my head and shoulders looked like a pepperoni pizza from the fly bites. i grabbed a quarter from my pocket and tightened the screws as best i could, drug the boat off the bank, and we sailed about a half mile clinging to the side of her, before we were confident we could fight off the remaining flies.....
> 
> once under sail, we realized we left the beer and smokes on the bank. sorry, not even goin' back for'em. i'm making a bee line for prickly point, to hell with a beer. so while we're arguing about the fact that we were having to sober up against our will, we didn't notice a tug with a barge under tow bearing down on us. when he blew his horn, we sobered up straight away. i changed course to a heading that would clear his bow by a long shot, or so i thought. when we cleared him, it was by only about fifty feet or so. i think brian shat himself, 'cause he clammed up and sat very still for the rest of the ride home. i still hear that tugs horn to this day. we made it back to the marina just as last light fell. the marsh mud held. brian jumped overboard and cleaned out his shorts. i thought he shat himself and i was right....
> 
> today, i take extra measures to ensure those problems never happen again. i moved to georgia, i never leave the house without bug repellent, i keep extra smokes in the cabin in a watertight container, and i quit drinking.....


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## twinsdad

*Response to AMAC*

First, I don't think anyone should be too smug as we all have our fair share of mistakes. That said, I would offer a couple of thoughts that others may agree or disagree with.

I definitely would have secured the dinghy better. This is probably the least controversial comment I'll make. I think you were very lucky not to have lost it, and having it distract you when you needed your attention elsewhere - of course you knew that by the way you asked the question.

I also think that most would agree to avoid, when possible, taking large waves on your beam. Going upwind might be more uncomfortable, and raise your apparent wind modestly, but I think a safer bet in rough seas.

As for the balance of your sails, its hard to comment without knowing your boat or having been there. In rough conditions, I would err on less sail, not more. Having said that, the way you balance between your sails really depends on too many factors for anyone to give you a definitive answer. You will probably know from your helm whether you have the right balance or not.

I think it is really to your credit that you are asking the right questions, and pushing yourself. Personally, I would have thought twice about going out in a forecast of 35 kts, knowing that the forecast can be wrong and the winds could turn out to be stronger. Repeating myself, if you are going to go out in those kinds of conditions, and you are not racing, I think less sail area is better than more.

Happy cruising - Maine is such a beautiful spot for it.


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## smackdaddy

Twins - look at AMac's thread from which I stole this BFS:

*Heavy Weather Points of Sail*

As for your feedback - the coolest thing you'll find in that thread is his attitude about the feedback he got, and the attitude with which it was given him. It's a great, great thread and shows how great this forum is.


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## TSOJOURNER

Great thread Smackdaddy! 

When I finally figured out what BFS means on the FC a minute ago I came over here ASAP.

Thanks for posting my BFS story.

Keep your rail wet,

Maury


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## PCP777

For all you BFS freaks out there I've got a book for you! I'm in the middle of it and I can't put it down. These guys raced, single handed, through the Southern Ocean, around Antarctica and past cape Horn in 60 foot seas and Force 12 winds. It's the story of the 1996 Vendee Globe. It was the mother of all BFS.....

_Godforsaken Sea
Racing the World's Most Dangerous Waters_
By DEREK LUNDY

here's a small excerpt:


> When the system overtook Dinelli's position, the wind increased until it was blowing close to hurricane strength-sixty-four knots and over-and gusting to eighty knots. It quickly whipped up the constant swell of the Southern Ocean into huge seas. Dinelli's boat started surfing on waves that grew to between fifty-five and sixty-five feet-like fast-moving, always-toppling six-story concrete buildings.* It was apocalyptic sailing.*
> 
> Dinelli couldn't stay on deck because it was too dangerous. From inside the damp, frigid cabin, trying to make sense of the shape and steepness of the waves, he did his best to direct the onrushing boat by manipulating his autopilot. But control was impossible. Algimouss capsized, violently inverting in a few seconds. The tremendous shock compressed the mast so that it pierced the deck; the boom smashed through one of the large cabin windows and water flowed in. It was Christmas day morning.
> 
> Dressed in a survival suit that had got torn in the capsize, Dinelli wedged himself into a corner of his upside-down cabin. Bit by bit, the water displaced the trapped air in the hull. During the capsize, the mast had snapped off a few feet above deck level. The standing rigging held it more or less in place, and it acted as a kind of keel, holding Algimouss stably inverted. After three hours or so, however, wrenched by the boat's furious rolling and pitching, the mast broke away completely. Freed of the resistance of mast and rigging, the three-ton bulb of ballast at the end of the keel regained its leverage, and the boat rolled upright again-sluggishly, because of the weight of water inside. As it did so, Dinelli, mostly underwater, half-swam, half-walked his way off the cabin top and down the sides until he was standing on the floor again. Now he could activate his satellite emergency radio beacons. He hadn't set them off sooner because the signal wouldn't have been able to penetrate the boat's upside-down carbon-fiber hull.
> 
> Within a couple of hours of righting itself, the boat had almost completely filled with water. The waves slammed in through the table-sized hole in the deck with such force that they broke the hull's watertight bulkheads. Each Vendée Globe sixty-footer was required to have three of these, dividing the boat's interior into compartments that could be sealed off, limiting the amount of inflowing water. But no material could withstand the force of these seas. Soon the deck was at water level. Each enormous wave seemed determined to sink the boat.
> 
> Dinelli climbed onto the deck and tethered himself to the stump of the mast, struggling to stay on his feet as the boat lurched and plunged. The waves crashed over him continuously. His torn survival suit soon filled with water. The hull of Algimouss was completely submerged, its deck barely visible in the foam of breaking seas. Alternately soaked by waves of frigid Southern Ocean water and blasted by a windchill well below zero, Dinelli felt his body temperature begin to drop.
> 
> He stood on the deck of his boat for the rest of Christmas Day, through the high-latitude austral summer night, and all the next day, the wind never dropping below gale force. Adrift in the Southern Ocean at almost fifty degrees latitude, twelve hundred miles south of Australia, closer to Antarctica, he was as alone and exposed as any human on earth could possibly be. As the second night approached, the twenty-eight- year-old sailor was exhausted and hypothermic. He knew without any doubt that he would not be able to survive until the next morning. Death was very close.


A bigger excerpt can be found here.
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/l/lundy-sea.html


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## smackdaddy

Sweet. I'm on my way to Amazon.

Hey dude, don't forget to vote in the BFS Cup poll.


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## Sabreman

Ok, this isn't a death defying BFS, just a nice BFS. Actually two.

This past Monday, I took two customers/friends sailing. They are also crew when we race so we know each other well. We sail the Chesapeake and in July and August, they turn the wind machine off. In September, they turn it back on and in October they turn it up more. So this is prime season.

We left the dock with 18kts and it built to 20 gusting to 25, then 25 gusting to 30. We put in double reef and 100% jib from the start and Victoria sailed beautifully. We did about 25 miles and by 1700 we were back to 18 gusting to 20. Just a fun day, no drama, just fun.

On Wednesday, I took out an employee (Tim) who's only been on a sailboat one other time. We left the dock with 10-15kts and sailed a beam reach into the St. Mary's River off the Lower Potomac River. At 1600, we turned around when I saw St. Mary's City disappear behind a wall of black cloud and rain. I thought that the squall would pass behind us, but........

I felt the air temp drop about 5 degrees and thought "Oops, shoulda reefed." Then the wind jumped from 15 to 25 in about 2 minutes. Not a huge leap, but enough to get your attention. For the first time ever, we went from full main to 1 reef, to a double, to all down in about 5 minutes. We tried to sail with 130% jib but Victoria kept rounding up. I kept telling Tim to fall off while I finished securing the main, but he couldn't pull it off. No big deal, just a bit noisier and more heel that I like. If we had more hands, the evolution would have been smoother. Oh well. We eventually reduced the jib to about 50% but not before I was smacked in the ear with a flogging 1/2" jib sheet. Still swollen and hurts. We eventually shook out all the reefs after the squall passed. Fun day and Tim has a new respect for the water.

Now I'm sitting at my desk (about a mile from the water) and thinking, "Should I dial into my teleconference at 1400 from the boat?".

PS. My current Avatar shows the boat in about the same spot where the squall hit us. It was July during Gov Cup.


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## smackdaddy

Very nice Sabre. Honestly, the best part about telling your BFS stories is that it makes you want to back down to your boat for more.

As for the first sail - 20-25 is the sweet spot for me on my C27. So I know exactly what you mean about it being fun.

When it starts getting into the 30s, especially within 2-3 minutes, things can get a bit more challenging.

BTW - I vote tele-c from the boat!


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## smackdaddy

Hey SDog - you were out sailing all summer. Did you score a BFS?


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## smackdaddy

Not really a BFS per se, but a great story I ran across from Jeff_H. Maybe the Eurpie did have a BFS. We'll neva know.



Jeff_H said:


> And all of this reminds me of a story from when I was Newport's age. I know that I have told this story here before. Sorry to those who have read it.
> 
> In the early 1970's, Dinner Key (Just south of Miami on Biscayne Bay) was a gathering place for a disparate collection of vaguely nautical types. A strange maritime amalgam that ranged from the white be-blazered swells at Coral Reef yacht Club to the castoffs that camped on the small barrier islands that marked the entrance to Dinner Key. It included the retired military lifers with their proper yachts, and the hippies with their strangely cobbled together vessels; old lifeboat conversions and weirdly converted wooden race boats, old Bahamas sloops and Cuban fishing smacks. This was time of great polarization in this country, but on the waterfront, life was a strange blending of diverse factions, living shoulder to shoulder, a stirring and mixing of opposites pulled together by our common gravity of being sailors.
> 
> This mix of the rich and the raucous, the saint and the stew bum, was constantly changing as boats and people came and went. I was there at ground zero, the D.I.T (Do it yourself) yard at Dinner Key, a 23-year-old, fresh out of architecture school, restoring a wooden folkboat, Diana; a lapstraker that was a year older than myself. It was not unusual to visit or be visited by others working on their own boats when the heat became too great to continue, or the skies opened up and we all ran for cover in the great shed. There was this sense of community as we each wrestled with each of our boat's own particular form of torture. Mine was keel bolts. But that is another story.
> 
> Occasionally, there would be one boat and one person that really needed the help of the community and the Irish Kid was one of those. The Irish Kid (I don't know if I ever knew his name) came to the States from Ireland to see his father who was a dog trainer at the greyhound racetracks. His visa only allowed the Irish Kid a few months in this country, and he had already extended it as far as he could. Immigration had ordered him to leave by noon of a certain day after which they would arrest him and deport him.
> 
> For a reason completely lost to time and myself, the Irish Kid had decided to leave by buying a boat and sailing to the Bahamas, at that time still a British possession. He had bought a neat little 20 or so foot plywood sloop, which was more or less a miniature Folkboat interpreted in multi-chine plywood. She was a pretty little fractional rigged, moderately long keeled, sloop, painted a cheery yellow by some prior owner. Unfortunately the boat needed some serious repairs so she was hauled out in Dinner Key Marina a couple boats away from 'Diana'.
> 
> The Irish Kid had only planned to haul out a few days, maybe a week at the most, before being launched again and well before his deadline to leave the states. As in all boat repairs, it did not work out that way. The required repairs were far more extensive and time consuming than he had planned. All of us in the yard felt sorry for him and tried to help as best we could. I had found a source for government surplus bottom paint and so picked up an extra gallon for him. His mast step had rotted out and had also rotted the painted plywood deck below it. A number of us spent a night cutting the deck apart and scarfing in a new piece of deck and building him a new mast step. One of the guys donated the wreck of an old rig and its parts were scavenged to replace pieces of bad rigging. And so it went.
> 
> Every couple days, a black Ford galaxy with U.S. government plates would pull into the boat yard and two men in suits would talk to the Irish Kid and let him know that they would not allow him a minute more than the allotted deadline to leave. This very much scared the Irish Kid since all of his money was tied up in that boat, and if he was carted off and sent home, he believed the boat would be seized by the Government to pay for his airfare.
> 
> Adding to the pathos of this whole venture was the fact that the Irish Kid did not know how to sail, or navigate and had not spent time around boats. Originally, there was a hippie that had planned to sail over to the Bahamas with the Irish Kid. We all knew this hippie to be less than perfectly knowledgeable and trustworthy but he was certainly a more experienced sailor than the Kid. A day or two before the Irish Kid was set to leave the hippie decided not to go.
> 
> On the last day leading up to the Irish Kid's planned departure, we all pitched in doing what ever we could to get his boat put back together. We had wanted to take him sailing and make sure that he understood what we had been telling him but he was only launched on the morning that he had to leave. Another sailor and myself drove him up to get some groceries at the supermarket. He had wanted to say good-bye to his father but there was not enough time to run up Hialeah.
> 
> We had tried to convince him to sail over and anchor in 'No-Name Cove' on the opposite side of Biscayne Bay and just daysail until he felt comfortable with the boat, but he was so nervous that he would have his boat seized that he insisted that he would just simply sail over to the Bahamas. But sailing to the Bahamas was anything but simple. For several days a Norther had kept the flags standing out and slatting harshly and had raised whitecaps in the protected water of Biscayne Bay. It was not a good day for a new sailor to try to sail to 'No-Name Cove' by himself no less the Bahamas, But he set sail about 11:00 or so heading across Biscayne Bay to the cut off of Cape Florida on Key Biscayne and out toward the Florida Straights.
> 
> About noon, the black Galaxy showed up. The two guys in suits asked if I knew where the Irish kid had gone. I climbed up the ladder to the deck of 'Diana', and looking seaward, there was a tiny white triangle glowing in the mid-day sun above a spec of a yellow hull heeled down and basically on course for the cut. I pointed and said, "There he is". One of the Government Men came aboard and looked for himself, thanked me, and then they left.
> 
> The Kid did not know how to navigate. One of the guys in the boatyard had laid out a course and told him when the water turned color head 45 Degrees further south until the water turned color again. I don't recall if he could even read a chart.
> 
> These were different times than today. Small yachts did not carry VHF radios. GPS or even Loran did not exist. The Irish Kid's boat did not have a reliable outboard or an electrical system. He had a silly little double D cell powered running light that had a red and green at the front and a white light at the rear that he clipped to his mast. If he failed there was no way to call for help.
> 
> In the first few days after the Irish Kid left, I naively listened on the AM radio for news of an air/sea rescue search, but then it hit me, who would call in that search? Over the years I thought of the Irish Kid a lot. In the years after Dinner Key, I'd think of him almost every time I sailed a small boat in a building breeze. But slowly over time I'd think of him less and less.
> 
> To this day I wonder what happened to him. I wonder if he somehow made it, or if perhaps he slipped in to No-Name Cove and did in fact learn to sail. I sometimes imagine him reaching the Bahamas. I wonder how he knew which low sand island was which. I wondered if he knew to look out for coral heads and dope runners. I wondered the current took him north and he missed the Bahamas entirely. Or the Norther blew him south and he piled up on Andros to die tangled in the Mangoves. Or maybe he went on to become a world cruiser of great renown. Maybe he was Tristan Jones.
> 
> Most times when I tell a story there is a moral, or a punchline or even an ending but this one is different. If there's a moral I have yet to figure it out. There is no punchline and as this still haunts me to this day, I am not sure there is even an ending.
> 
> Good night folks,
> Jeff


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## peptobysmol

My BFS has a good ending, is fairly tame by most standards but was my closest call to "holy s**t!" I've had yet, well besides my first docking attempt (but thats another story). It also provided me with some learning opportunities as well as certain requirements for my boat. I'll explain...

Last week my son was on leave before he gets stationed in Ft. Bliss. I got my Hunter 23 in july when he was in AIT. He was only going to be in town for a short time and I was eager to show him the boat (he'd never been sailing). It was fairly windy (15-20 kts?) on Lake Hefner where I keep the boat on at the slip. I had recently switched to a trolling motor for its reliability because my outboard would die at inopportune times. So we went downwind in the canal and out into the marina "bay" I tested the upwind drive of the motor to see if I could maintain a windward heading for sail raising - confirmed. So we motored (trolled?) out of the marina. There were very few white caps on the surface and all seemed fine as I rounded up to wind to raise the main. My son was manning the tiller, I raised the main. As soon as the main was 2/3 the way up, the boat started to drift downwind. 

Now before I go further, I must say that my boom is configured for an in mast topping lift except that the sheave is missing. So like the previous owner(s), I have a loop in the topping lift in which the boom rests. The rest of the topping lift is wrapped around my backstay to keep it from flying when not connected to the boom. This also prevents the boom from swinging too wildly when my mainsheet is loosened to release the topping lift.

So as soon as the boat starts drifting downwind/and to port. The main with the mainsheet released is quickly pulled to port, I'm unable to reach the hook for the topping lift and the boat heels dramatically to port. So much so that I am reminded of my Pico sailing course that I took in May of this year - lurch to the windward side to keep from "spillinging" the boat. Now, I don't have an inclinometer so I don't have a degree of heel that I can entertain you with. I do know that I was on the starboard side pushing the tiller with my foot!  to try to round up with the wind again. But to no avail. Even with the trolling motor at full (it always was) I was resigned to go to a run and try to turn upwind again to release the topping lift and then it'd be smooth sailing! Wrong. As we turned upwind again with the already anticipated heeling and foot control on the tiller the boom came across and the topping lift hook landed squarely in the backstay adjuster housing... F! Sooo, after trying to get the hook out of the backstay adjuster, to no avail 
the boat quickly headed downwind again. Feeling like this was a no win situation, after heading upwind one more time I released the main halyard killed the sail and headed back to the into the marina. At this point, I was able to release the boom from the backstay adjuster and toppinglift, letting it rest in the cockpit. Unable to make any headway against the wind in the marina any longer (the wind was pushing me toward a fishing dock) we maneuvered to the fishing dock and tied on. Past the dock was either the bank or the cement jetty. We went home, got the outboard and took it back to the slip. End of the Day!

In retrospect, things that I have learned. Fix the motor, Reroute the topping lift through the boom (I have already ordered the sheave), and have a knife/rigging cutter handy. Most importantly: While good enough is often adequate for most situations when it is not it may not be pretty. Thanks


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## MorganPaul

Jeff. Great story telling man. I enjoyed reading that.

Paul


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## blt2ski

I would say David, Dodenda had a BFS over the weekend. Not big hairy winds, but finished 2nd in class tied, and 4 secs handicap behind the winner! 16 yr old daughter was at the helm the whole race. WInds were light, at beginning, were doing 20'ish at times at the finish. His whole fleet finished in 6 min of ea other. the fs group on the short course finshed plu 2 to minus 2 or 10 min total, so 20 some odd boats across the finish in 10 min! got really hairy with the long course folks, 1/4 of the fleet of 50 some odd, finish between 2 and 2:15pm. rather hairy for us on the RC. 

Two wicked jibes at the finish, two side by side, one jibed 100 yds out, the other just after crossing! gave us on the RC a show!

Marty


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## ste27

Ever stoood on your own keel before? That may be what kept us from going down yesterday when the top J/24 sailor in Bermuda DID sink. 20 built to 25, built to 30, okay so no spinnaker hoist once we round the offest, rounded the top mark reaching towards to offset, high 30's BAM 54 (according to the weather station maybe 1000 yards away)


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## smackdaddy

Heh-heh, Pepto, that sounds like a typical afternoon on the water for me.

And Djode - congrats to your daughter dude! Nice racing. Did the jibes break anything Bluto?

ste - a 54 KNOT BAM??? Ouch. That'll definitely leave a mark. I thought J boats had enough reserve buoyancy to stay in top. No?


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## blt2ski

Actually they were not jibes, IOR barrel role 80% over knock downs.....great action, nothing broke for them. My kids ie 21 and 23 yr olds took out amoretto, they finished dead last on handicap, 2nd to last on actual time, the AS coupler failed, so the spend 10 min fixing it, and being as they were the scratch boat, and the FS Short course basiclly finishing in 10 min group either side of davids group at 10 min, some boat owning upwards of 18 min on the 18 mile course, need less to say, they went for a great downwind sail in 15-20 knot winds doing 6+ happy with everything all things considering. Fastest time in the 3 yrs of doing this race by 20 min, probably would have taken 30 min off with out the spin shackle failure. Still proud of them. Boyz had our drunk PC in our club come in the kitchen where I was setup doing the final stuff, complaining about times etc, wanting to see the score sheets, as I was figureing out I had semi-colons where colons belonged, lundged at me, pushed on twin, he grabed PC, other jumps in............"NOBODY" messes with our dad! 

Long weekend great racing, most fleets finished with less than 20 min handicap time.

Marty


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## ste27

One of the problems I've always had with this thread is that I can't shake the feeling that it could encourage a bit of reckless/unsafe behaviour amongst people who have just enough experience to be dangerous to themselves or others.

In this story the boat that sank has a helm and trimmer that have been sailing together on J/24s for 30 years, and regularily go to worlds events. The boat I'm on had a helm that's owned the boat for 10 years and has done at least 10 crossings to/from Bermuda and the east coast of the United States. I've done 4 of those crossings and was foredecking (usually trimmer) and the trimmer did one crossing this year and a few more years ago. So minimum 15 gulf stream crossings, 2 valid Safety at Sea certs, and we've all been at this quite a while. 2 other people on the boat are relative novices, just a bit of wednesday night 'round the cans style racing but enough to be competent crew. Names changed 'cause hey, that's the thing to do right. Anyway, here's the email that went out from us yesterday:

_So, yesterday morning, pretty windy steady high 20's, gusts into the 30's. We are heading to the weather mark, several boats around us, J/24 #1 ahead and J/24 #2 just behind. Even as we got half way up the weather leg I was still considering flying the chute, and was working through the steps in my head to fly it given the wind conditions. The wind started to build further, I was dumping the main to depower and it was becoming a real handful. I that point I shouted "full name", not nickname #1, nickname #2 or nickname #3, but full name to get his attention and said "no chute" he said "no sh*t".

What happened next is best in his words:

"As we made our last tack into the top mark it was what, low 30's? Then reaching for the offset it was maybe high 30's so naturally I'm still racing and just at super max hike. The lull before the blast hits and I'm suddenly well underwater, then we get slammed and now I've still sorta got the lifeline and my feet are on something which I presume was the keel - pretty convenient place to accidentally end up given the circumstances. So I guess we round up or whatever? I dunno. Anyway, got my armpits hooked over the lifelines (facing out) which is good 'cause I'm not really going anywhere but bad 'cause I have absolutely no leverage anywhere and can't do much to help myself. Now (2 guys from crew) are trying to help me up and after doing the medieval torture rack thing for a while I'm not quite sure what happened but I guess the worst of it was over and the boat really flattened out again, letting me hook a leg up onto the rail and then I think I got hauled on by my belt. I think I was onboard for .5 seconds or less before I blew the jib halyard, got it down, and got a bungee on the thing. So then I look back at the helm to sort of say "okay, WTF do we do now?"

While full name was standing on the keel we were absolutely flat in the water, with the top of the mast and spreaders submerged. The wind was blowing the top off the waves so the entire scene was like being in a snow storm. The sails were flogging and visibility was barely the length of the boat, I had no idea which way we were being blown.

As full name was pulled back on board I noticed what I thought was a *********** boat but it turned out to be J/24 #1 capsized with their crew in the water. J/24 #2 were nearby and they picked up one of the girls first, we sailed past and threw lifejackets etc at them, then J/24 #2 picked up another crew. About this time J/24 #1 started to right itself, and unfortunately the buoyancy in the upturned hull was lost and she sank pretty quickly in an upright position. We did a circle and luffed to pick one up, then did it again to pick up another while J/24 #2 picked up the last swimmer. The actual recovery of the crew was relatively straightforward as the wind had abated somewhat, and since J24's have a small freeboard, we were able to heel the boat to get them onboard.

She went down in about 60 feet if water between Kings Point and Grace Island, and I have just heard she's been located. One of my crew, was in shock, wet and cold afterwards. The VHF was all but useless in the noise, I called the Race Committee several times and all they heard was static. Hinsons Island weather station recorded 54 knots in the squall.

Totally nuts. _
I'm "full name" 

Forecast was high teens gust to 25. In those conditions a J/24 has the 100% jib and full main (nobody has reefing points anyway) with the rig cranked on reasonably tight. I've only had the keel out of the water once before, massive but entertaining spinnaker broach. According to the IMS measurements, a J/24 is stable to barely over 90 degrees. Our masthead was apparently in the water, give that one a thought (I wouldn't know, standing on the keel and all that, which in the end probably saved us). A J/24 has no positive flotation and will go down, just needs sufficient water inside (hint: nobody races with the companionway washboard in) - of course if we'd know it was going to be 54 the board would be there but we only had about 30 seconds warning on the squall as it came over the land and then water right at us and even then only looked like the usual +10 ones we get, not a +20. Not that 40-45 is a picnic but at those speeds just turn and run, the boat will plane away and drop the apparent wind to 25 or so - not exactly trivial but not much of a big deal either, just plane off in a hurry


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## smackdaddy

ste27 said:


> One of the problems I've always had with this thread is that I can't shake the feeling that it could encourage a bit of reckless/unsafe behaviour amongst people who have just enough experience to be dangerous to themselves or others.


Ste - great write up and analysis. Thanks dude.

As to whether this thread encourages reckless/unsafe behavior in inexperienced sailors - I think it's definitely a valid point. I'm one of those sailors.

To me there are three basic ways to look at BFS:

1. You can be someone who is totally unprepared who takes a boat into dangerous situations just to cop a thrill and say you BFS'd. You might survive it - you might not. All you have at that point is luck.

2. You can be someone who ALWAYS avoids hairy conditions at ALL COSTS and prays for calm during every passage so you can call yourself a "prudent sailor" who's "always in control".

or

3. You can be someone who ENJOYS edgier sailing and pushing some limits - knowing that you're going to get hit at some point - one way or another. And that the best possible thing to do is prepare for it.

This last one requires that you learn everything you absolutely can from every source you can as you go. You seek out others' experiences and knowledge so you can better know what to do if/when the situation gets dangerous. And you work your way up to bigger winds and seas slowly to prep yourself and your boat.

The goal is still BFS (unlike #2) - but now you're training for it (unlike #1). And even so, just like that very experienced J24 skipper in your story, you very well might still get caught. That's sailing.

The whole point of BFS, in my mind, has always been to enjoy and celebrate the adventurous side of sailing. And typically that has to do with heavy weather, racing, long passages, screwing up, first time under full sail, etc. - or a combination of the above. That's exciting and it's educational. That's cool.

If a newbie sailor reads these stories and decides to be a #1 homey - that's not real smart on his/her part. Just look at the stories.

At the same time, who wants to be a #2 drifter? Not me. If you think about it - that sailor is just as unprepared as #1. That's why I never bought into the whole "chest-beating" thing some people try to put on BFS. That's not it.

I guarantee you that there are many non-racing sailors on this site that would say flying a chute in 25 knots is insane and full sail in 30+ is "irresponsible". I'm not one of those BTW.

It's all just a balance. That BFS edge is relative. And the best you can do is learn and prepare for where you personally want to ride it.

Anyway, as a learning sailor with no certs and very few miles under his keel - I appreciate your story. I've learned a lot. I saw 50 knots in a squall a few weeks ago while I was working on my boat in the slip. I have no desire to be out on a boat in that. Scary freakin' stuff. But I also want to learn to be ready for it...because I don't enjoy the slip that much.

The only question I have is - what will you do differently now? (e.g. - hatchboards in racing? more buoyancy?).

PS - Which newbs out there read this stuff and think that the #1 route is the way to go? C'mon - out yourselves!


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## twinsdad

Smack, I guess we all have our different perspectives. I believe in getting from the boat what the conditions allow, but that does not require reckless behavior. Max speeds are not attained with your rail in the water. I am going to exclude racing from my remarks because one has to "push the envelope" in a competition. I certainly ski differently in a Nastar race than I do just skiing for the day. I think the same applies to sailing. I think most of us have been out there in rough conditions, the difference is how much you are going to push the boat and yourselves.

Once you are at max speed, the extra heeling is unnecessary risk taking. I am one of those people who adjusts their sail plan based on the expected winds. That is hardly being a "drifter". I'm all for having fun on sails, enjoying sailing in windy conditions, and even sometimes being at risk of more rough weather than intended. Can't do long term cruising without running that risk. However, I do think safety comes first, and appropriate planning and adjusting just makes sense. I think we all need to find the balance that works for us, but be cognizant of the risks we are taking on - and reduce them where possible.

Happy sailing!


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## NICHOLSON58

I sailed in the 1981 Chicago to Mackinaw race in a Heritage One-Ton. We had a fair start and a nice first day. This was followed by many hours totally becalmed in dense fog. We were within a few boat-lengths of the Coast Guard Cutter Mackinaw an listened to his deafening fog horn for many hours. When the system finally cleared mid morning, the wind built steadily all day. We reduced sail to the 3rd reef in the main and alternated between the 2 and 3 jib. Eventually, winds peaked on the nose at 70 and held 65 to 70+ for seven and a half hours. We saw seas to 30 feet and crests running about 100 to 120 feet apart. The mast lights on near boats disappeared in the troughs. By this time we were running overpowered by the 3 and underpowered with the storm blade. Two boats were dismasted and 1/4 of the fleet dropped out. We finished 5th in fleet. In Mackinaw, we took a hose on board to wash the puke off the headliner. This was the race where Dennis Conner famously mouthed off before hand about day-sailing on the Michigan puddle and publicly appologized later after the physical beating handed to him. It was the only time I can remember being really thrilled to walk off a boat.

If you sail long enough, anything will eventually happen. We lost a rudder in a race where we were totally clobering everyone including boats that owed us time. It was a close reach in high wind and sloppy quartering waves. The 4" diameter stainless rudder post fatigued off just outside the seal (thank you boat gods!) and we watched the fleet pass us. It took a hour for the first boat to pass. Coast guard hauled us in. They missed meal call so we fed the lot of them.

We started a simple club race off Cleveland. Last race of the season. Our afterguard noted black water on the horizon so we quietly dumped the kite below and brought the 3 on deck. We pulled the 2 and started the race on the main alone doing 12 knots on a broad reach. Several boats had former kites up and two boats lost mainsails. We watched waterspouts less than a hundred yards behind us. We were first to finish and everyone owed us time. Most fun I've ever had.


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## smackdaddy

NICHOLSON58 said:


> In Mackinaw, we took a hose on board to wash the puke off the headliner.


One word Nich...wow.

Your sentence there pretty much sums it up.



NICHOLSON58 said:


> Several boats had former kites up and two boats lost mainsails. We watched waterspouts less than a hundred yards behind us. We were first to finish and everyone owed us time. *Most fun I've ever had.*


See - that's exactly what I mean. What is that mysterious _thing_ right there? Chaos and mayhem all around you. And it was freakin' fun. Fun. I relate to that.

So, as a dude that has some very serious racing under his belt - where do you see the balance between balls out racing and "prudent" cruising? I'm utterly convinced there's a whole world of incredible sailing in that space - but the conversation always goes to the extremes. I don't get that. There's definitely something more.

Sailing itself is just too damn fun to ONLY be one or the other. That much I do know.


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## smackdaddy

BUBB2 IS THE MAN!!! A killer BFS from one of the absolute best dudes I know. And he's another freakin' Eastie!



bubb2 said:


> Smacky, today was the Day.
> 
> We had gusts over 40 knots here today. Smack, you have been on my boat and seen her hit 7.3 knots in what I would call a fresh breeze. Today I hit 9.1. I was surfing the Hudson, man!
> 
> It was rail down, hell bent to break 9 knots for the first time. This summer has been cooler than most so the bottom growth has not been as heavy as most years. So with a slick bottom and big wind, today was the day.
> 
> The boat was acting like my first car. The one with the bad alignment. When she got up to 8.6 she started shaking from stem to stern. But what fun we were having. I had to press on. I eased the sheets a little more and she gave me another 2/10's. She was shaking so much, I was beginning to think something was coming lose. But I was going to press on. I ease the sheets more and she pops up over 9. What a day!
> 
> The above may not sound like much until you know I have only 25 feet of water line. My theoretical hull speed is 6.7 knots and my boat is not designed to plane.


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## NICHOLSON58

Smack - You have to know your boat and crew. We had absolute faith that everyone aboard would perform faultlessly without even a word. That was the best bunch of sailors I've ever been with. Its been over 20 years since we last sailed together but most of us are still in touch, scattered over the US. Most have our own boats. We get together whenever possible. The collective list of boats we own(ed) is: Prindle cat, Hobbie cat, Tornado, Cape Dorey, Sunfish, Laser, Stiletto, Hobbie Tri-foil, 505, 470, Heritage One-Ton, Cal-40, Acadia Yawl, and our Camper 58. I'd gladly take any of them as crew anywhere - any time. We pushed the P out of the Heritage and won a lot of flags and pickle platters even against light weight throw-away sleds. Our crew included engineers, navy meteorologist, pilot, computer geek and two nurses. We surfed the thing once hitting 18 knots with way too much sail up and the bow running submerged to the mast. All crew sitting on the aft pulpit and all loose items crammed into the aft berths. You never forget rides like that.

We have to choose a new #1 jib to replace the one lost by the previous owners to negligence in Ivan. I know I should buy a Yankee with high cut clew. - best on the roller furler and easy to see under. My gut tells me to get a deck sweeper. Forestay is a Profurl 52 with two tracks. If we race the Mackinaw in 2011 I'll wish for the BFS.


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## smackdaddy

Give me a shout in 2011. By then I'll actually know something. And I'm more than happy to hose the puke off the headliner for a chance to be railmeat in a Mac.


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## CalebD

*It was blowing some stink in the northeast this past weekend.*

While I can't compete with 30' waves on the Mackinac race the Hudson offered us some interesting wind last Saturday Oct. 11th.
Plan A was to cruise (krooze, if you prefer) the 35nm up the Hudson to Chelsea Yacht club. We had a Plan B & C in mind before we left just in case. We left Nyack at 0930 with a building north wind and sailed past Croton Point by around 1130 at which point we decided to motor as we had only covered about 5 nm. I should point out that our boat is a center board model but our board had become stuck in the trunk and would not deploy, hence we made a lot of leeway while tacking. 
Reluctantly we motored straight into the wind which was gusting just over 20 at this point and the surface of the river had 'white horses' aplenty. There are a few doglegs in the river and at the first one by the Indian Point nuke plant we tried setting the sails as our course would be more NE. The only problem was that the shackle connected to the head of the sail decided to wriggle free and the main halyard went up to the top of the mast without the main sail. Ooops! We motored on to the next bend which brings a section where there are mountains on either side (Bear Mtn & Anthony's Nose) which also happens to be aligned longitudinally (n/s). The wind was whipping through here funneled by the mountains where I'd guess we had 30 knot gusts. It is also a very pretty part of the river so my crew got out their fancy digi SLR cameras and had fun while I motored us steadily on at just under 4 knots. This section was brutal as our speed would drop with each gust.
Once under the Bear Mtn. Bridge another change in direction of the river gave us flatter water to motor on. We had lunch and discussed our options. We were a bit crestfallen at losing the main halyard and ultimately decided to turn around at 1430 or so after covering about 20 nm., just short of World's End and West Point. 
Heading south we unfurled our 150 genoa and made our way back to the wind tunnel by Bear Mtn. What a ride we had! With just our full genny up our GPS hit 6 knots and the boat behaved more like a dinghy sailor as each gust caught it full she would lurch forward and try to round up. What a view too. We passed other boaters from our club who were still heading north as we screamed along with the wind. 
The next leg we had to motor a bit until Haverstraw Bay when our engine (A4) began to complain. We were able to keep going at 5 knots while we changed the sparks and checked over the engine. Engine back and running smoothly at all RPMs we continued sailing under jib alone as the sun got lower and lower. We also found that the center board was now free. Yay! 
We pulled into the dock and tied up at about 1900. We had covered about 40 nm in 10 hours averaging 4 knots/hour which does not make it a BFS based on speed alone. We had a great dinner to celebrate our returning safely. I got to sleep on our boat for 2 nights and sailed virtually all of Saturday. 
On Sunday we hauled a friends young son up our mast (he offered) and we got our halyard back. We sailed over to Tarrytown to use the pump out and I was on the lookout for a 29' Bene but no dice. We did put the first reef in the main for the trip back and furled out most of the jib. The wind was still up around 20 knots and gusty but we quickly crossed the river and found our mooring.
Although I am a bit disappointed we did not hang on the hook somewhere else it was really sweet to be on our own boat and using it as the kroozer she really is. I had provisioned enough food for several days and had the fun of packing it all in and most of it back out.
The leaves were nowhere near peak as you can see in the photos I hope are attached.
Bedford Fire Department, or BFD, right?
Cheers.


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## CalebD

*Pics*

1. approaching Bear Mtn. Bridge
2. Hook Mtn. as the locals call it
3. It was getting dark
Enjoy


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## smackdaddy

Very cool, dude. I'd say it rates.


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## NICHOLSON58

Fantastic! I was just there a couple months ago for my nephew's graduation from West Point. It looked like a venue we'd like to check out in a few years. I love the Bear Mt Bridge views along the SE approach road and scenic turn-outs. The wind in a litle narrow crack like that has to be totally unpredictable - local knowledge highly critical. I don't suppose they just let you cruise up to the camp and dock?


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## twinsdad

I can attest to the big winds on Oct 11th. Sadly, took my boat in for winter storage - but what a great last sail. The main was all you needed in LIS. The kids had a great time. May have been the last sail on this boat as I get the new boat for next season. Very hard to let go of a boat I have had for 15 years, with many great times. There's always next year, the new boat, and new adventures! Any way it was a great send off!


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## CalebD

*West Point*



NICHOLSON58 said:


> Fantastic! I was just there a couple months ago for my nephew's graduation from West Point. It looked like a venue we'd like to check out in a few years. I love the Bear Mt Bridge views along the SE approach road and scenic turn-outs. The wind in a litle narrow crack like that has to be totally unpredictable - local knowledge highly critical. I don't suppose they just let you cruise up to the camp and dock?


Before 9/11 you could actually dock at West Point, or so I have heard. Since you have a family member who is a Cadet there you might be able to pull it off going through the proper/improper channels to get permission to do so. I just don't know about the arrangements there.
I do know that sensitive areas like the UN (on the East River) and Indian Point nuke plant are guarded by the CG and I would expect the same at West Point Academy. 
It really is very beautiful up there and I wish we had made it up to World's End, West Point and Cold Spring, NY. Given the wind that day if we did not turn around when we did we would have been docking back at our home port in quite dark conditions.
I urge you to check it out as it is well worth the trip. I saw a 2' Sturgeon leap out of the water and was just amazed by a large swale on the waters surface that could only have been made by a larger version of what I saw.


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## CalebD

twinsdad said:


> I can attest to the big winds on Oct 11th. Sadly, took my boat in for winter storage - but what a great last sail. The main was all you needed in LIS. The kids had a great time. May have been the last sail on this boat as I get the new boat for next season. Very hard to let go of a boat I have had for 15 years, with many great times. There's always next year, the new boat, and new adventures! Any way it was a great send off!


We were actually doing that trip on Oct. 10th which was a Saturday. I checked the winds on sailflow.com tonight that showed 30 knot gusts down by Nyack that afternoon. A fellow racer actually bent the boom of his Catalina 30' tall rig on an accidental jibe - they had mid boom sheeting. The winds in that section of the river were likely a little higher because of the funnel effect of the mountains on either side.
The next day (11th) had pretty consistent 20 knot winds as well. 
Glad to hear you go in a nice last sail on a sunny day on your boat. The LIS can get a bit boisterous as the winds pick up - so good call on using the main only. 
It has got to be a little bittersweet to be moving on and up to a newer, bigger boat. I love my old Tartan 27' even if it is a scow by PHRF ratings. It looks good and does most of the things I want it to do even if we rarely finish first when racing it.
Good luck with your move.


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## smackdaddy

It just stole this story from BarryL. I did so because, for me, this is pretty much what BFS is all about.

Sometimes it's easy just to focus on the near-disaster stories - but there's so much more to BFS than that. And this story really exemplifies it. Great BFS Barry...



BarryL said:


> October Night Sail, 2009
> 
> In the north east, the sailing season is coming to an all-to-rapid close. The weather this past weekend was great if you like heavy air (and I do) but I had too many other items on my to-do list to get out on the water. But, at 6:00PM Sunday I was irritated and cranky at having done other things all day, so I (mentally) said "the Hell with it" and went sailing.
> 
> Sunset was at 6:17Pm, so I would be sailing at night. No problem, I like sailing at night. It was supposed to get chilly. No problem, I have enough warm clothes. It was supposed to be windy. OK, I'll start with a reefed main and take it from there.
> 
> I arrived at the marina around 6:30 and was on the boat soon after. The sun had set and the sky was a brilliant orange color that was soon fading. In the harbor the wind was 15kts from the WNW, dropping to 10 and gusting higher than 15. Fortunately, the tide was ebbing, so the wind and tide were in the same direction and this would keep the waves down.
> 
> On the boat I mentally reviewed everything I needed to do. Sailing solo, at night, in a decent breeze, requires some care. I don't believe it is dangerous, but it can be if you are not careful. I was sure to wear my inflatable vest, with a handheld radio attached. I had a flashlight in my pocket and my sailing knife in another. I started the engine and let it idle while I uncovered the mainsail, placed winch handles in the cockpit, moved the dingy from the rear of the boat to the mooring pendant, connected the electronics, and otherwise prepared.
> 
> Since the wind was going to be above 15 kts I put in the first reef at the mooring and raised the mainsail. Since it was getting dark I turned on the nav lights before I left the cabin. It was now or never so I dropped the mooring lines, and I was off.
> 
> The water in the harbor was calm, but the wind was not. Motorsailing with the main up, headed close hauled, the wind meter was showing 20 kts. Oh boy, this was going to be interesting. I motorsailed close hauled due west for a short time, easily going 5 kts with the engine just idling, turned the corner in the harbor to head north and then I was out to sea. Once clear of the fishing pier I shut the engine down. The wind was 15-20 kts and I was going 3-4 kts with just the main up. I wanted more sail, so I unrolled the headsail to the first reef, making it about a 100% jib. Sailing close to due north I was zooming along at over 6 kts. I had no destination in mind, I just wanted to sail.
> 
> There was not another boat in sight as I headed out. The conditions were not too bad: 20 kts of wind, 3 - 5ft waves (not closely spaced), not too cold, and no other boat traffic to worry about. I trimmed the headsail as best I could. Since the headsail was reefed I needed to move the jib lead forward, but that was not going to be possible with the block under load, and I didn't feel like tacking over to change it. I did lock the wheel and move forward to adjust the other block, which would be helpful for the trip home.
> 
> Now I tried to relax and enjoy the sail. It was scary at first as the wind would gust over 20, hitting 23 kts a number of times. During the gusts the boat would heel over to 40 degrees and try to round up. The main was in too tight and I had too much weather helm. I went forward and lowered the traveler half way and the weather helm got better. I also eased my course off the wind a little more. Boat speed was pretty fast - over 6 kts for most of the time.
> 
> It got completely dark and the stars came out. It was a very clear night and I could easily see the Big Dipper sitting low on the horizon. The two pointer stars led me to the Polaris, the North Star, which has guided mariners for centuries. I could see the Milky Way pass through the Summer Triangle, the Great Square, Pegasus, and many other constellations. Looking at the stars got me thinking about that poem: "All I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by?" [as I was writing this I looked it up:
> 
> Sea Fever by John Masefield - published 1913
> 
> I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
> And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by,
> And the wheel's kick and the wind's song and the white sail's shaking,
> And a grey mist on the sea's face and a grey dawn breaking.
> 
> I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
> Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
> And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
> And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.
> 
> I must go down to the seas again, to the vagrant gypsy life,
> To the gull's way and the whale's way where the wind's like a whetted knife;
> And all I ask is a merry yarn from a laughing fellow-rover,
> And quiet sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick's over.
> 
> Anyway, I had the ship (although not so tall, but tall enough for me) and I had the star. So I ignored my glowing chartplotter, equipped with GPS sensor that could place me within 10 feet anywhere on the globe. I stopped looking at the compass, and I even tried to ignore the wind meter (which seemed like it just kept climbing), and sat down on the low side of the cockpit, and placed Polaris just to port of the mast, and tried to keep it there.
> 
> The tension of the day had melted away. Wedged securely into the low side of the cockpit, I concentrated on keeping the boat going in the right direction. I also was looking for large waves, trying to spot other boats, listening to the VHF (report of a boat taking on water in Jones Beach inlet, any mariners in the vicinity keep a close watch), and enjoyed myself. The Yankees were playing the Twins in game 3 of the ALDS, but I would catch up later. I thought of turning on the radio to listen, but it was too rough in the cockpit and too windy to hear anyway. So I continued sailing. The wind was moving north, so I moved more north east to keep the same wind angle. To the west I could see the lighthouse at Middle Ground. To the southwest the 4 stacks at Northport were easily seen. To the northwest was Bridgeport, and I saw an inbound ferry, lit up like a small cruise ship. To the North east was some other CT city, maybe New Haven? I didn't know and I didn't really care.
> 
> It was now around 7:30 and I needed to think about turning around. I looked at my fancy chartplotter, looked at the where I was in the Sound, and decided to turn around at 7:45. I was about 6 nm north of Mt. Sinai, around 1 hour from port. That would put me at the channel entrance around 8:45, off the boat around 9, and home by 9:30. So I reviewed the steps to tack the boat: Ease the leeward traveler line so the main would self tack down, move the winch handle from the loaded winch to the unloaded winch, and then one last look around. After a mental "Ready About, Hard Alee" I slowly turned the wheel and then freed the jib sheet when the boat was head to wind. As the helm fell off on the new tack the mainsail blew across, then the jib. I threw a few turns of the jib sheet on the new winch and started to grind the line in.
> 
> Wait a minute, something is wrong - the jib did not tack over to the correct position. What was wrong? Was the lazy sheet stuck? No, I freed it from the winch and it was slack. Something was wrong though because the sail was backwinded. Something was holding it to windward. I would have to go forward and find out what was wrong. Fortunately, with the sail backwinded, the boat was almost in a heave too position, and was quite stable. Still, I was very careful as I moved forward; one hand for the boat, one hand for me, do not fall overboard in these conditions. The problem was easy to find, somehow, the sheet had gotten looped over the main halyard winch on the mast and then led back to the sail. The loop was holding the sail to close to the wind (difficult to describe but easy to see). The sheet was loaded so there was no way I could just pull it free. Now I needed to figure out how to free it. I thought about jibing, as the sail blew over I figured the sheet would get blown off the winch at the mast and then I could pull it in. However, there was no way I was going to jibe in 20ts of wind. I thought about just removing the sheet from the primary winch, letting the sail flog while I moved forward and freed the sheet from the mast. However I didn't want the sail to flog that much. What if I used the laszy sheet to take all the strain off of the loaded sheet? That would allow me to free the line from the mast. So that's what I did, I threw some wraps of the lazy sheet on the other winch, brought the line in until it was tight, moved forward, took the loop off the mast winch, and then freed the sheet. When I released the lazy sheet the sail inflated with a loud pop and the boat took off.
> 
> It took maybe a minute to free the sheet and complete the tack but I was now disoriented. I looked at the shores and I didn't know if I was looking at the north or south shore of the sound. I looked at the instruments and saw that I was headed west. OK, turn to port to head south and home. Visually, the shore seemed to be way too close but that must be right because all the instruments agree and make sense. OK, then turn to port. I turned the wheel, but the boat did not obey and continued west. I turned the wheel some more, no difference. What was going on? Then I realized that the sails were trimmed way too right and the rudder was overpowered. I lowered the traveler more and eased the sheet. The rudder magically worked and the boat turned to the correct heading. Now I used my chartplotter to direct me to the harbor entrance. Disance: 5.5 nm, course: 212M, Bearing 212M, Speed: 6.5 kts, ET 39 minutes, etc. Modern electronics are wonderful!
> 
> Since I had tacked and the wind had turned more North, my heading was a deep reach and quite fast. With the wind and waves on the rear quarter the ride was much easier. The wind was down to 13 kts (apparent and I was able to relax. With the sails trimmed as best as I could guess (it was too dark to see the tell tails) the boat speed was over 7 kts for most of the time with some runs over 8 kts as I surfed down waves. At this rate I would be back at the harbor in 30 minutes. I tried to stop looking at the instruments and paid attention to the shore. I spotted the red and green lights that mark the entrance to Mt. Sinai harbor and headed there. Soon (really too soon for me, but enough was enough) it was time to furl the headsail and drop the main. It took a lot of effort but I was able to furl the headsail without using a winch. I started the engine and headed into the wind. With the wheel locked I quickly dropped the main and put one sail tie on it. I motored into the harbor, picked up the mooring without problems and properly put everything away. With the boat closed, I got in the dink and rowed to shore. As I rowed away I thanked Day To Remember for being a good boat.
> 
> I was very glad I went sailing.
> 
> Barry


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## xsboats

Bfsails don't always end back at the bar with bragging rights. Sometimes they end with 16 hours in the drink, hypothermia, and an appreciation for having filed a floatplan.See KINGFISHER CREW RESCUE ST. AUGUSTINE MAN FROM CAPSIZED VESSEL . The boat was a Gemini 34, not a 28 as recorded. The spout lifted the boat about 25 ft in the air and rotated it almost 360 degrees before slamming it down. Sure is easier to be found when you stay with the boat.


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## twinsdad

I think Barry L might want to consider dropping the main sail at the mooring. It is a lot easier (don't have to worry about the steering or headway) and safer since you only have to focus on the sail. I do this all the time - and have found solo sailing a lot more pleasant because of it.


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## painkiller

xsboats said:


> Bfsails don't always end back at the bar with bragging rights. Sometimes they end with 16 hours in the drink, hypothermia, and an appreciation for having filed a floatplan.See KINGFISHER CREW RESCUE ST. AUGUSTINE MAN FROM CAPSIZED VESSEL . The boat was a Gemini 34, not a 28 as recorded. The spout lifted the boat about 25 ft in the air and rotated it almost 360 degrees before slamming it down. Sure is easier to be found when you stay with the boat.


Where'd you get the additional info (25 ft in the air, etc.)? Do you know the crew? Sounds like quite an experience.

And it sounds like they almost made it to Oz! 

Now it's time for some of the multi-hull aficionados to brag about the inherent safety of a catamaran inverted on the surface!


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## xsboats

That's me on the boat.


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## smackdaddy

Woah, woah, WOAH!!!! XS - THAT'S YOU??? The Gulfies HAVE JUST SCORED IN A BIIIIIIG WAY!!!!

KINGFISHER CREW RESCUE ST. AUGUSTINE MAN FROM CAPSIZED VESSEL



















JACKSONVILLE, Fla. - The crew of the Coast Guard Cutter Kingfisher, an 87-foot patrol boat stationed in Jacksonville, has found a man this morning that was reported missing by his wife at midnight.

Scott XXXXX a resident of St. Augustine was taking a 28-foot catamaran from Jacksonville to St. Augustine, Fla., yesterday evening when it capsized because of a waterspout from the heavy storms along the first coast. Upon notification, Coast Guard Sector Jacksonville requested assistance from a Dolphin helicopter crew from Air Station Savannah, Ga., a C-130 Hercules fixed-wing aircraft from Air Station Clearwater, Fla., and the Cutter Kingfisher.

The crew of the Kingfisher found XXXXX in fair condition on top of his capsized boat at approximately 8:40 this morning waving his arms approximately four miles south-east of the St. Johns Inlet.

"It's very rewarding to find and rescue someone so we can bring him back to their family," said Lt.j.g. Matthew Baker, commading officer of the Coast Guard Cutter Kingfisher. "This is why many of us joined the Coast Guard, to save lives."

XXXXXX was picked up and taken back to Sector Jacksonville for awaiting EMS crews and family. The Coast Guard recommends that you wear your lifejacket, file a float plan and know the limitations of yourself and your vessel before heading out to sea.


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## smackdaddy

XS - dude - out with the story.


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## TSOJOURNER

Big sails it is!! Thanks for the interesting read!


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## xsboats

Waterspout flips 32-foot catamaran


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## smackdaddy

Dude - that is seriously incredible. Cut and paste that story here so it doesn't get lost to history.

So what did it feel like flying a 32' cat 25 ASL?

And, one of the scariest things any sailor thinks about is swimming through the main hatch after a capsize. Yours sounded pretty frightening - but very well done. What tips do you have for this?


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## painkiller

Scott, glad you made it! I can't even imagine what that must've been like.

Smack, St. Auggie is on the east coast of Florida, my friend. Chalk that up for the Easties. And he gets extra points for the twister-360-to-invert along with a BFS Purple Heart (I just made that one up) for his injuries.

And you're not supposed to fly a hull on the Geminis, much less two hulls!!


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## smackdaddy

Crap. I thought for sure the Gulfies had finally stepped up. Damn Easties!


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## sailingdog

I'd point out that his rescue was facilitated by the fact that he was sitting on the flipped cat's hull—which is much easier to spot than a person floating all by themselves in the middle of nowhere.


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## bubb2

Scott, I am glad to all is well. 

Back in my younger days I was crewing on a Chi-Mac race. A cat got turned over by a gust right as they were entering the straits of Mackinaw. A crew member did not make it out.


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## painkiller

sailingdog said:


> I'd point out that his rescue was facilitated by the fact that he was sitting on the flipped cat's hull-which is much easier to spot than a person floating all by themselves in the middle of nowhere.


Yeah, Scott, tell the owner of the boat to re-think that black bottom paint next time. Perhaps something in a fluorescent yellow?


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## St Anna

painkiller said:


> Yeah, Scott, tell the owner of the boat to re-think that black bottom paint next time. Perhaps something in a fluorescent yellow?


I have a theory that black hulls can attract whales. Anyone else with any experience/comments of this?


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## xsboats

One of the scariest things is swimming back into the cabin thinking there is an air pocket inside. The air pocket was under the cabin sole. There was nothing but boat soup in the cabin. You might as well not have safety gear on board if you can't find it or get to it. You would be surprised at what I sailed with on my person for the next year until the fear tapered off to a healthy respect.


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## twinsdad

Just another voice to say that we're glad you're OK. You wear whatever you need to feel comfortable.


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## NICHOLSON58

A couple of years ago my brother and I took off after breakfast in an old fiberglass boat with a new 4-stroke on totally glassy water. We diagonaled over a small boat wake and the boat rolled 180. We had been sitting on our jackets. They stayed stuck to the seats and the old, non-compliant boat went straight to the bottom with the jackets. It was a 1-1/4 mile swim to shore. I doubt we would have made it but were picked up by a fisherman. I wear my jacket now. Its amazing how fast things can turn to crap.


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## smackdaddy

Okay - XS is obviously too humble to pimp the story so I'll be happy to do it...it's just too insane to not have here...

(I've X'd the last name to cut down on the groupies that would otherwise be following him around)

*Waterspout flips 32-foot catamaran*
July 19, 2006

Scott X knew he might be in trouble when he saw the white wall of water. A tornado had just skipped off land into the Atlantic off Jacksonville Beach, Fla., and it was churning toward him.

"I had only a couple of minutes to react," says X, 43, who was delivering a friend's 32-foot sailing catamaran April 9 from upriver of Jacksonville to St. Augustine, Fla. Anticipating some big gusts, he eased the traveler and main sheet. Then the unthinkable happened.

The twisting tower of water "lifted the boat up 20 to 25 feet in the air, and it started rotating," X says. The waterspout flipped the Gemini and slammed it deck-down into the water. X was thrown from the aft end of the cockpit into the cabin.

"I had to swim out," he says.

As he struggled out from under the boat, his leg became tangled in loose radar arch cables. He ripped most of the tip off one finger and gashed his thumb trying to free himself. After surfacing, he climbed onto the underside of the deck between the hulls.

He was wearing just a T-shirt, shorts and boat shoes. It was 5:30 p.m., and a front was moving through, bringing cold rain and wind. The Gemini had capsized four miles southeast of the St. Johns River, 2-1/2 miles off the beach, but it might as well have been 50 miles. X says he knew if he was going to spend the night out there, he would have to keep warm.

"It was all about fighting off hypothermia until somebody found me," he says. It also was about staying with the boat. That night he would look longingly to shore and see traffic lights changing and the flashing neon signs of the beach bars. He was tempted to try and swim to shore or take the kayak he had lashed to the back of the boat.

But he resisted the urge. "Stay with your boat," X had always told his sailing students. He decided to follow his own advice.

He dived back under the boat and into the cabin to find a life jacket and warm clothes. He searched for the PFDs he knew the owner had stowed somewhere on the boat but couldn't find them. He tried to find his own life jacket, which he had left on the chart table. It had flares, a flashlight and a strobe hanging on it. He couldn't find that or the hand-held VHF that also had been on the table. All he could grab in the few minutes he had to swim through the cabin on one breath of air were a foul-weather jacket and a 4-foot-long foam seat cushion.

Back on the overturned boat, he wrapped his torso in the foam cushion and zipped the jacket on around it. Then he flipped up the hood and drew the strings tight around his head, and slipped the T-shirt over the jacket.

X was ready to hunker down and wait for rescue. He thought the storm would send a lot of anglers scurrying back to port, but only one came his way - just 50 yards distant. The helmsman was bucking head winds and seas and driving rain. X is sure he never saw the cat. That night two freighters passed within a stone's throw of him. X at first was hopeful someone would spot him on radar, but no one did, which scared him because then he thought the ship might run him down.

Cold rain and hail pelted him. Lightning struck on the water around him. Winds that night shifted from onshore to offshore, kicking up 3- to 5-foot seas. Waves knocked him off the overturned hull eight times. Each time he crawled back on and tried to dig his fingers into the space between the retractable centerboards and the side of the keel box to hold on. His hands became numb, and he shivered uncontrollably.

The catamaran's mast was dragging on the bottom, the boat drifting in a mile-diameter circle. The tide wasn't carrying him out to sea, nor was it taking him ashore, as X had hoped.

In Charleston, S.C., where X has been working as shipwright on the tall ship Spirit of South Carolina, his wife, Karen, was worried. He had left a float plan: He would be sailing close to shore - no farther out than 15 miles - and he would be into St. Augustine by 8 p.m., no later than 10 p.m. He had told her if he hadn't called by midnight, something was awry.

Karen X called the Coast Guard shortly after midnight. The agency sent a helicopter out before dawn - X heard it - and a C-130. The 87-foot cutter Kingfisher based out of Mayport, Fla., set out about dawn to search between Jacksonville and St. Augustine. On its first pass south just 10 minutes out of Mayport, the Kingfisher crew spotted X.

"He was sitting on one of the hulls, and as soon as he saw us he stood up and started waving his arms at us," says Lt. j.g. Matthew Baker, Kingfisher's commanding officer.

Kingfisher's small-boat crew took him aboard. "The amazing thing about this story is that he was in the water for 15 hours," says Baker. "When we picked him up, he still was in excellent condition, all things considered." The water was 68 degrees. X' body temperature had dropped 2 degrees, but he was alert and moving about.

"This is always a rewarding job," says Baker. "But it's extra special when we can get someone back to their family like this."

X, whose home is in St. Augustine, was taking the boat from 60 miles up the St. Johns River to St. Augustine for repairs and delivery to Annapolis, Md., for sale. The capsized Gemini eventually broke its mast and grounded upside-down on the beach with most of its cabin torn off. Flipped right-side up and dragged off the beach, the water-logged boat eventually sank in breakers in 25 feet of water while under tow.

X sums up the passage gone awry: "It was a long, cold night."


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## xsboats

Humble, now there's a word not often used to describe me! I've single-handedly crossed both the Atlantic and Pacific, kayaked many a first descent over 50-75ft waterfalls, climbed to the top of the tallest peaks of most of the continents, and braved marriage not once but twice. The point I was trying to make in my post is that whether you go looking for it or not, given enough time on the water, IT will find you. I am very methodical in all that I do.[Karen and others who know me say I'm anal or at least an a$$] No matter how proactive you are on the water, you are still only perfect here on Sailnet. On the water , you can only hope to understand the rules well enough to stay in the game, you'll never win it. I was fortunate to know enough to get to go home to my wife, son , and unborn daughter. We all read about people we think did stupid things, paid the price, and we say "What an idiot, I would never have done that!" We all have our moments. I was glad that I didn't spend the night out there with anyone else.Don't get me wrong, I'm never one to back down from much of anything, but when it's back in my face, should I be surprised? When you read about someone having "a long, cold night," remember that , in time , they may be reading about you. No matter how well you plan,life can always come up with something you never even thought of.


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## bubb2

It's been a while, That I have taken the boat out on a overnight sail. I left the dock at 5:30 pm Saturday knowing that storms were being called for. The only the thing storm really bother was the Yankee's ball game. I got soaked and it was a little rough for a bit, however I was enjoying myself.

I love sailing at night as it clears my mind. Just me and the boat. I just haven't done enough of it this season. Last night reaffirmed why I love sailing after all these years. It is magical. The sky cleared and the stars were out when I was pulling back into the Marina at 4:00 am this morning,

I am sorry for the quality of the pics. It was blowing and raining and the boat was moving. The bigger truth is, I need to learn how to use my wifes fancy digital camera.

New York's First Lady









Ground Zero from the water


----------



## PCP777

xsboats said:


> Humble, now there's a word not often used to describe me! I've single-handedly crossed both the Atlantic and Pacific, kayaked many a first descent over 50-75ft waterfalls, climbed to the top of the tallest peaks of most of the continents, and braved marriage not once but twice. The point I was trying to make in my post is that whether you go looking for it or not, given enough time on the water, IT will find you. I am very methodical in all that I do.[Karen and others who know me say I'm anal or at least an a$$] No matter how proactive you are on the water, you are still only perfect here on Sailnet. On the water , you can only hope to understand the rules well enough to stay in the game, you'll never win it. I was fortunate to know enough to get to go home to my wife, son , and unborn daughter. We all read about people we think did stupid things, paid the price, and we say "What an idiot, I would never have done that!" We all have our moments. I was glad that I didn't spend the night out there with anyone else.Don't get me wrong, I'm never one to back down from much of anything, but when it's back in my face, should I be surprised? When you read about someone having "a long, cold night," remember that , in time , they may be reading about you. No matter how well you plan,life can always come up with something you never even thought of.


Fascinating story and your advice is good. What was the weather like before the twister hit? Did you see the weather system coming?


----------



## johnshasteen

xsboats said:


> Humble, now there's a word not often used to describe me! I've single-handedly crossed both the Atlantic and Pacific, kayaked many a first descent over 50-75ft waterfalls, climbed to the top of the tallest peaks of most of the continents, and braved marriage not once but twice. The point I was trying to make in my post is that whether you go looking for it or not, given enough time on the water, IT will find you. I am very methodical in all that I do.[Karen and others who know me say I'm anal or at least an a$$] No matter how proactive you are on the water, you are still only perfect here on Sailnet. On the water , you can only hope to understand the rules well enough to stay in the game, you'll never win it. I was fortunate to know enough to get to go home to my wife, son , and unborn daughter. We all read about people we think did stupid things, paid the price, and we say "What an idiot, I would never have done that!" We all have our moments. I was glad that I didn't spend the night out there with anyone else.Don't get me wrong, I'm never one to back down from much of anything, but when it's back in my face, should I be surprised? When you read about someone having "a long, cold night," remember that , in time , they may be reading about you. No matter how well you plan,life can always come up with something you never even thought of.


XS, I have to agree with you. Having sailed for over 50-years, enduring one hurricane, two Force 10 storms, numerous other bad weather experiences and some very inconvenient groundings in back bays, coastal estuaries and the ICW, I can only say that every sail is an adventure.


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## smackdaddy

zz had a wild ride. 23.5 knots! And a dismast!

Sounds like they kept it together and did a great job minimizing damage...

(PS - Bubb, AWESOME story and pics dude. Nice.)



zz4gta said:


> My first multihull experience didn't go as planned. Was fun, and a very wet and fast ride, but I'll let the owner/skipper tell the story. Winds were forecasted to be steady 20-25 with some websites calling for winds up to 35, we didn't see 35, maybe 30.
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> Sailed super conservative. Main reefed well below 50% of SA. Started under jib and then sailed first two gybes with screecher. Gybed back to port for the river and hoisted the small chute. Boat felt absolutely great. No slamming, no loading, mast rock solid - no pumping, bow up attitude, new top speed (23.5knots) and finger tip control on the helm.
> Smiles all around. Then an explosion heard in my left ear (I think it was parts of the shackle(s) that hold together the uppers, checks and tensioner letting go) and the mast buckled at the intermediates/baby stay (I may have the sequence wrong; things happened fast).
> 
> Recovered all the wire (none broken, mast, and sails. Tear in spin and two tears in luff of main. Minor damage to bowsprit attachment at bow.
> Screecher halyard badly frayed.
> 
> Kevin Duffy, his friend Trevor (not sure last name), and John Nicholson all did a fantastic job of securing gear, minimizing further damage, and cleaning up. I really want to stress this as I can't say enough god things about them collectively an individually. No panic, just calm, cool, and collected.
> 
> I think the only thing we eventually lost overboard (or ws stolen from the boat last night) ws the tensioners from both sides and a shackle. I coiled all the wire and stripped as much as I could from the mast this morning (BTW its really shocking how much all that wires weighs!!!).
> 
> I thought everyone would know because I heard a call on the radio about a tri losing its mast. We immediately responded that all were on board, in lifejackets, safe and cleaing up and that we did not need or want any assistance. I also radioed that we were abandoning the race and thought I got a response from the RC. That is not intended as a commentary on any previous events; its just the way it played out for us. I needed to stay down wind as the only thing holding the lower half of the mast up was the wind in the remaining main and did not want anyone getting in our way as we secured stuff. We had adequate sea room; the only thing that culd have meesed us up was a boat in the way so I was glad folks stayed clear. There was a large sailing vessel (pretty classic looking
> boat) that did head towards us to render aid if it ws needed but he/she seemed to understand what we were doing and they gave us the searoom we needed. Don't know who that was but I owe them a thanks. Anyway, like I said the crew did great, got a line forward to support the remaining stump, and then we eased into the wind and slowely lowered what was left to the deck.
> 
> Anybody know somebody with an F27 mast for sale? Boat sure looks sad all cleaned up with no mast.
> 
> Not sure what will hapen with insurance but next time the boat will be painted blue and named Viagra. Our fleet might be getting a rep of not being able to keep it up!!
> 
> Russ"
> 
> Smack, feel free to copy and paste.
> -Trevor


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## aerie

Today marks the one-year anniversary of my BFS. Here is the story I wrote about it. This story and others can also be found in the link to my blog.

“Pan-Pan, Pan-Pan, Pan-Pan. Hello all stations. US Coast Guard Atlantic City has just received a report of an EPIRB signal located 100 miles east of Atlantic City. All vessels transiting the area are requested to keep a sharp lookout, assist if possible and report all sightings to the nearest Coast Guard unit.” I checked our own GPS position, 60 miles upwind of the reported location, and mentally calculated how long it would take us to reach them, at least 8 hours. But we were in survival conditions ourselves, hove to in a force 10 storm with wind gusting into the low 60s, an engine that wouldn’t start, and two crew members down with seasickness. An hour later I was relieved to hear on the radio that the Coast Guard had deployed a rescue helicopter to assist the vessel in distress.

Joy For All, a Farr 50 outfitted for offshore passage making, had left Mystic, CT the previous morning, motor-sailing in light wind from the southwest. Our destination was Hampton, VA, about 400 miles to the southwest where we would join the fleet gathering for the start of the Caribbean 1500 rally. The forecast was calling for a low producing northwest wind at 35 knots to arrive late Monday. We decided to head for the New Jersey coast where we would have a shorter fetch when the associated cold front arrived, and we could run down the coast on a reach. By Monday afternoon the forecast had changed. The low had slowed and was deepening, now producing winds of 45-55 knots with gusts to 60 knots. Tuesday morning at 0130 the front arrived, bringing a 90 degree wind shift immediately intensifying to 30 knots. We tacked, rolled up the genoa and reefed the main further. Engine on, we altered course to head for Atlantic City, 40 miles to windward.

The wind speed increased over the next several hours and the barometer dropped to 994 mb. By Tuesday afternoon our progress toward Atlantic City had slowed to about 2 knots. We were still 12 miles away, and it was apparent we would not reach safe harbor by nightfall. On the radio we heard Atlantic City turning vessels away. The west wind at 45 knots made it unsafe to enter the harbor.

All afternoon the waves breaking over the foredeck had been working on the dinghy lashings and by now the dinghy was lodged against the port stanchions. The lower lifeline had broken and the rigid bottom inflatable would soon be a danger to the boat. Someone would have to go forward. I turned the boat downwind while Gil hooked onto the jacklines with Joy acting as spotter. I tried to keep the boat as stable as possible, but the foredeck was still rolling quite a bit as we surfed down the backs of 12 foot waves at 11 knots. The apparent wind was reduced to 35-42 knots, we were no longer taking green water over the bow, but the foredeck work took longer than normal in those conditions and we held our breath until Gil returned to the safety of the cockpit.

The wind continued to build, now 50 knots sustained gusting to 60. Still motor-sailing with just a scrap of main to reduce the rolling, we idled the engine which caused it to stutter and then stall. All attempts to restart the engine were unsuccessful. Gil and I looked at teach other and I said, “Pull out some staysail.” We tried sailing southwest, then south, then southeast. As the sun was setting we made the decision to heave to. We pulled out enough main to balance the staysail and keep the bow about 70 degrees off the wind, locking the helm to windward. Immediately, the motion of the boat stabilized, heeling at 10 degrees and with a gentle roll as the waves passed under our hull. We were drifting toward the northeast at 3-4 knots, roughly parallel to the NJ shoreline but in the shipping lane. Shortly after we hove to, The Coast Guard hailed us on the radio to see if we were ok. Family had reported us missing when they couldn’t reach us on the sat phone. The cloud cover was so dense there was no satellite signal.

Gil and I took 3 hour watches to watch for ships, the other two crew still down with seasickness. No one felt like eating much, but we tried to stabilize the maelstrom in our stomachs with water and crackers. The wind was a constant howl, making it difficult to talk. I was very grateful for the cockpit enclosure as the temperature dropped into the low 30’s and the occasional wave broke over the cockpit, at times sending seawater down through the companionway hatch. I was cold in spite of three layers and practiced balancing against the motion of the boat to stay warm. We ran the generator to keep the cabin warm so we could ward off the chill between watches. 

Dawn arrived on Wednesday morning, and the wind died down to gale force, 35 to 45 knots. During the 17 hours we were hove to we had drifted about 50 miles back the way we had come. We were only about halfway to Hampton and the engine still wouldn’t start after changing the fuel filter and bleeding the fuel line. It was time to start sailing again. Sails sheeted in tight, we jibed slowly to a course of 210, close reaching but still a bit east of the bearing to Hampton. Hot oatmeal for breakfast revived the crew, and we were back up to our full complement of four, each taking a three hour watch. I was able to catch up on some much needed sleep and life returned to somewhat more normal for an offshore passage. We followed the wind shift to the northwest and we were able to sail through the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel as the sun was setting on Thursday afternoon. We were towed the final five miles to Blue Water Yachting Center in Hampton, VA, grateful to have arrived safely at our destination.

We were saddened to learn that the fate of the vessel and crew that had activated their EPIRB early Tuesday evening was not so positive. The vessel was a Swan 44 called Freefall that had been rolled and dismasted. The Coast Guard was able to rescue two people from the boat, but a third crew member lost his life. Phil Rubright from Detroit was a fellow member of the Great Lakes Singlehanded Society. We also heard of two additional vessels, a 67-footer and a 100-footer that remain missing. We agreed that we dealt with the situation as best we could. We monitored the forecast and were prepared for the approaching weather. We were uncomfortable, but never felt our lives were in danger, and we trusted our boat to keep us safe. We maintain a healthy respect for wind and water, but we will continue to head out to sea.


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## smackdaddy

Wow - fantastic write-up Aerie.

Damn I love this thread. Best sailing stories - and sailors - on the net!

I remember the story of that Swan 44. Bad stuff. Didn't the skipper suffer a heart attack when he went into the water during the rescue?

Sounds like you guys did a phenomenal job of dealing with the conditions...and "going with the flow" instead of fighting it. I see it over and over - let the boat protect you...and have some oatmeal handy.


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## imiloa

Thanks for the great story aerie. We learn something from each one. BTW, what was the problem with the engine?


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## aerie

You can believe that Phil Rubright's death was one of the topics of conversation during GLSS events on the Great Lakes this summer. All three of the crew of Freefall were injured in the rollover and dismasting, which survivors said was caused by a rogue wave. Phil was the most severly injured, and so he was the first person the USCG wanted to remove from the disabled vessel. Since they prefer to take people out of the water and not off a boat, Phil and a rescue swimmer were in the water, but the rescue swimmer was injured, breaking his arm and therefore couldn't assist. The helicopter deployed a liferaft which Phil was able to get into, but unfortunately he was not able to stay in it when it capsized and was not able to get back into it due to his injuries and weakness caused by hypothermia. The first helicopter returned to shore with their injured swimmer, and by the time a second one reached the disabled vessel, Phil had died. The other two crew were still on the boat, which was still floating, and were rescued. We estimated 20-foot waves where we were, and those were big enough. The USCG estimated the waves were 40 feet where this rescue took place. Definitely the safest place to be in conditions like that is inside a boat, even if disabled, as long as it's not sinking. Stay warm and dry, then call for rescue once the conditions improve if you're not able to get the boat moving yourself.

Check the following links for further information about the Swan 44 Freefall and the Coast Guard rescue:
*http://lifefloatingby.blogspot.com/2008/10/coast-guard-rescues-2-mt-pleasant.html*
*Rescue Video from a Coast Guard C-130*
*FWB official's daughter injured in fatal sailing accident*


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## aerie

The engine problem turned out to be the timing belt being off by one sprocket. The engine had to be taken almost completely apart and rebuilt once we arrived in Hampton. After the repair, it ran as smooth as butter.


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## smackdaddy

aerie said:


> You can believe that Phil Rubright's death was one of the topics of conversation during GLSS events on the Great Lakes this summer. All three of the crew of Freefall were injured in the rollover and dismasting, which survivors said was caused by a rogue wave. Phil was the most severly injured, and so he was the first person the USCG wanted to remove from the disabled vessel. Since they prefer to take people out of the water and not off a boat, Phil and a rescue swimmer were in the water, but the rescue swimmer was injured, breaking his arm and therefore couldn't assist. The helicopter deployed a liferaft which Phil was able to get into, but unfortunately he was not able to stay in it when it capsized and was not able to get back into it due to his injuries and weakness caused by hypothermia. The first helicopter returned to shore with their injured swimmer, and by the time a second one reached the disabled vessel, Phil had died. The other two crew were still on the boat, which was still floating, and were rescued. We estimated 20-foot waves where we were, and those were big enough. The USCG estimated the waves were 40 feet where this rescue took place. Definitely the safest place to be in conditions like that is inside a boat, even if disabled, as long as it's not sinking. Stay warm and dry, then call for rescue once the conditions improve if you're not able to get the boat moving yourself.
> 
> Check the following links for further information about the Swan 44 Freefall and the Coast Guard rescue:
> *http://lifefloatingby.blogspot.com/2008/10/coast-guard-rescues-2-mt-pleasant.html*
> *Rescue Video from a Coast Guard C-130*
> *FWB official's daughter injured in fatal sailing accident*


That's right. I'd forgotten about the injured swimmer. It sounds like your decision to stay closer to the Jersey shore to minimize fetch was a good call. I assume they were further out with those 40 footers?


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## smackdaddy

Oh hell yeah! Talk about fair winds and following seas!!!

(Thanks to AllThumbs for the heads-up)


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## blt2ski

PHUN day racing, 3 races, a 1st by 30 secs, a 2nd lost by 17.....knew it was close! and a 3rd, finished last half with no boom! 2nd boom boom this year...............not sure about them booms...............


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## painkiller

I think BLT has that Munchausen By Proxy Syndrome, but with his boat instead of a kid. He breaks it for the attention!


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## blt2ski

Actually, the goose neck came out of the mast. Something must have gone haywire with the rivets. Probably one size too small. No races until feb at this moment in time. My sons already are figureing out how to weld the holes close, a plate, and new rivets, this time the correct size diam etc etc..........

At least it was NOT the actual boom this time! oh yeah, it was djodenda's fault, he told me on my face book to take a picture of the boom incase we broke it! so its his fault, that is my story, and I'm sticking to it! LOLOLOL

Crazy day, from dead calms to over 20 into the upper 20's in minutes, then back to a calm in minutes. then it went from south winds at 15 to a north wind at 15 in less than 5 min too! wild day, came home very tired needless to say!


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## djodenda

Sorry, man...

David


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## smackdaddy

GREAT sail this afternoon. Only blowing 10 or so, but man it was nice! We're really starting to dial in on the sail trim a bit. There we were smoking a couple of other boats on a reach. Nice.

I did notice that you have to be careful at what you point you yell "Eat my wake losers!". Because even though you've overtaken them, it still takes about twenty minutes to get out of throwing range of their boat.

Anyone know how to get egg off old gel coat? I mean, lots of it?


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## smackdaddy

blt2ski said:


>


So why the hell did he rip it off the mast in the first place Bluto? Strong kid you got there.


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## blt2ski

Not sure if it was that one, or the other one, or both, or if it was the 3rd crew brian! The rivets that I used to fix the last literal boom break back in March/April pulled right out. Will probably weld the holes in the mast, ie fill them, then put a plate on the outside. and get the proper rivet gun to put in the next size larger rivets. Along with making sure the rivots are long enough to go thru the mast and make a reasonable backing so it will not pull out.


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## smackdaddy

Has anybody seen Mallo? He owes a BFS to go with that crazy pic of his!

Anybody else get some this weekend?


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## twinsdad

Get some what?


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## MorganPaul

Hey Smack I just stumbled into your web site.

BFSshop.com is the official home of BFS Gear for Big Freakin' Sails!


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## smackdaddy

How the hell did you do that? I just cracked it open for testing on Friday and haven't yet told anyone about it (apart from some people I asked to take a look at it during the design earlier this year). It took WAY longer to put together than I thought it would.

Anyway, I'll be advertising it here starting in a week or so. The whole idea for it came from talking to you mooks about big, adventure-filled sailing anyway. Should be fun.


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## smackdaddy

Now - to more important matters. I was out yesterday for a pretty mellow sail (8-10) after climbing the mast - which was an interesting time in itself. Sun was just starting to set and we were headed back to the marina.

This is about the time that the big stinkpots start heading in from Hippy Hollow (the buck naked "beach") after a day of drinking and nakeding. I'm on a port tack moving at about 4 knots as the wind was dying down. Both sails are flying.

A 40' Sea Ray is cutting a straight line up the channel at about 10 knots - as I'm moving across on my tack. About 200 yards out he hits is horn. Cool, I see you.

Now, if all things hold, we are on a collision course. I fall off a bit to try to clear his path sooner. He keeps coming. 80 yards - and he's still closing - not changing course at all. He hits his horn again - longer this time. Still on a collision course.

I pull my horn out an blast him one. No change in direction. So, it's chicken. Part of me wants to play - the other part of me thinks about Bubb's story.

I tack 180 and get out of his way. He never blinks an eye.

I don't know whether to hate him or admire him.


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## bubb2

Seen on a gravestone at Gloucester.

Here lies Thaddus Jay.
He died defending his right of way.
He was in the right
as he was sailing along
but he's just as dead
as if he was wrong.


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## St Anna

smackdaddy said:


> Now - to more important matters. I was out yesterday for a pretty mellow sail (8-10) after climbing the mast - which was an interesting time in itself. Sun was just starting to set and we were headed back to the marina.
> 
> This is about the time that the big stinkpots start heading in from Hippy Hollow (the buck naked "beach") after a day of drinking and nakeding. I'm on a port tack moving at about 4 knots as the wind was dying down. Both sails are flying.
> 
> A 40' Sea Ray is cutting a straight line up the channel at about 10 knots - as I'm moving across on my tack. About 200 yards out he hits is horn. Cool, I see you.
> 
> Now, if all things hold, we are on a collision course. I fall off a bit to try to clear his path sooner. He keeps coming. 80 yards - and he's still closing - not changing course at all. He hits his horn again - longer this time. Still on a collision course.
> 
> I pull my horn out an blast him one. No change in direction. So, it's chicken. Part of me wants to play - the other part of me thinks about Bubb's story.
> 
> I tack 180 and get out of his way. He never blinks an eye.
> 
> I don't know whether to hate him or admire him.


You did the right thing - Keep out of his way - and remember him.
We get the stinkboats doing the same. Narrow and shallow channels and they sit at half plane (huge wash) in the middle of the channel, expecting all to move out of their way.

I stuck to my course once. I was negotiating a tidal race in the whitsundays- deep water but I had to be on the exact perfect line. A yacht was behind us and a huge 100' 3 story game boat type stinkboat came up behind, blew his horn. The yacht behind us jumped about and the race flicked it around. The stinkboat came up behind me and blew his horn. I was committed to the course and any deviation could put me near rocks. I stayed, he blew off again with 3 blasts. I had the handheld VHF and asked him his intentions and added (smartass me!)that if he wished to alter course astern, he may!

He replied that he just wished to let me know that he was there. I was fully aware of his presence. After we passed the scarier ssection, he passed us. His decky's on the stern gave me the thumbs up

I figure that a jerks is a jerk whether he has money or not. These people often get into trouble because of their attitude.

Any and every other time, I dont push the issue and get out of their way. COLREGS - avoid incidents!


----------



## MorganPaul

smackdaddy said:


> How the hell did you do that? I just cracked it open for testing on Friday and haven't yet told anyone about it (apart from some people I asked to take a look at it during the design earlier this year).


I new you had a web site a couple of months ago. You posted a picture of your boat (I believe it was the one with the flacid sail  ). The photo was linked to your web site.

After you were canned from AS it got me thinking. I did a Google search for *big freakin sails*.

BTW I like the web site and the Flash work.

You were wronged over at AS.

Good luck with your adventure.

Paul


----------



## twinsdad

*Boats not respecting right of way*

Call me old fashioned, but I think we have an obligation to report boats that deliberately ignore the right of way rules. I can't imagine that the harbor patrol or coast guard wouldn't be interested in knowing about these incidents. By reporting them now, you may save someone's life down the road.


----------



## smackdaddy

MorganPaul said:


> I new you had a web site a couple of months ago. You posted a picture of your boat (I believe it was the one with the flacid sail  ). The photo was linked to your web site.
> 
> BTW I like the web site and the Flash work.
> 
> Good luck with your adventure.
> 
> Paul


Sneaky, sneaky. Thanks for the compliment. It's been fun putting it together.


----------



## smackdaddy

twinsdad said:


> Call me old fashioned, but I think we have an obligation to report boats that deliberately ignore the right of way rules. I can't imagine that the harbor patrol or coast guard wouldn't be interested in knowing about these incidents. By reporting them now, you may save someone's life down the road.


In general I agree with you. But there are 3 big blue and white SR's on our lake that all look the same. And I was too lazy to look at reg numbers.

I'll just hunt him down at Hippy Hollow and pour sugar in his tank. Way more fun.


----------



## twinsdad

It's hard to think of these things when the issue suddenly arises. It is a lot easier if we all think ahead of time what we should do when we deal with jerks like that. The more we start to report these people, the less likely it is that they will continue to do these things. No comment about the sugar.


----------



## St Anna

smackdaddy said:


> In general I agree with you. But there are 3 big blue and white SR's on our lake that all look the same. And I was too lazy to look at reg numbers.
> 
> I'll just hunt him down at Hippy Hollow and pour sugar in his tank. Way more fun.


Looking at your avatar, I suggest you sail naked. Smacker, this will always ensure the centre of channel is yours. In time you will learn to ignore the raucous laughter and derogatory comments.

Fluro coloured zinc cream will highlight your highlights whilst protecting against the sun. Keep us posted.

PLEASE _ NO PHOTOS


----------



## smackdaddy

Dude, I'm already there. But "SPF 50 on the naughty bits" is my motto. Why zinc them and deprive the world of true beauty?


----------



## St Anna

Really,
and the stinkboat still invaded your personal space? Now thats scary!


----------



## smackdaddy

Like a moth to the flame baby.

Of course, a chick was driving.


----------



## St Anna

You mean Mrs Smacker was at the helm....So you are all talk....I better type quietly unless one of the admirals hears me having fun.


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay CP. Hope you feel better soon.

As for reporting the boat - it's like twins says above, I was busy (though I do agree with his point). I joke about it now because even though the guy was being a jerk, I didn't feel like there was any real danger if I didn't allow things to escalate.

Hmmm....there's a thought.


----------



## twinsdad

Cardiac,

I think that is a bit harsh. Each of us has our own experience, and hopefully we all learn from one another. Smack already agreed that the right course of action would be to call the authorities - and I would guess he would do it next time. Just one more example of each of us learning something. I do think we can all be civilized with one another, and if you want to block someone because you don't like what they have to say - just do it privately. For me, I enjoy corresponding with people who have more experience and those with less. Sort of like what I experience out on the water. Anyway, happy thanksgiving to all!


----------



## smackdaddy

Thanks twins. HTG to you too dude.


----------



## chall03

Smack, 

My sailing instructor many years ago on Sydney Harbour taught me an important right of way rule, "assume everyone else on the water is a complete ass and you will never have a colliison". 

Now I'm not going to get into the right and wrong of not reporting other than to say that on Sydney harbour If I called the 'authorities' everytime I witnessed a breach of maritime law I would have the guys on permanent speed dial.


----------



## chall03

cardiacpaul said:


> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/hersailnet/58301-tips-needed-young-woman-sailing.html
> 
> Adrenalin Sports Tours
> 
> for what its worth,
> this young lady is to be commended for her effort.
> In addition, no one here said anything untoward.
> 
> Now however, the "rest of the story"
> 
> This lady and the rest of her crew had to be rescued by the coast guard.
> Conventional wisdom is take classes, learn, experience things, crew, gain some wet feet time.
> 
> Naw, it ain't gunna make it, its all about the rip, the thrill, the cutting edge, taking chances, dancing with the devil, shouting at danger. Adrenalin, Right dude? Fight Club, right? You ain't a sailor if... right? BFS, ain't that so? Knarly dude, high fives, eh? Ice up a cold one, good day, nobody died.
> 
> Bullshite.
> Whats left is this&#8230; injuries, scars - physical and emotional, a lost boat and putting other people in danger (don't give me that claptrap about it being the coast guards job&#8230;. I say darwins rules here, Why is it a god given right to be saved from yourself?) and broken dreams.
> 
> Maybe they should get a bfs shirt or sumpin.
> nobody died.


That is as you say CP, unfortunately a really sad ending to a young dreamer's grand adventure.

Now I actually don't give a hoot about this thread or Smack's BFS shirts, what I want to know is what did these guys do wrong???? I want my own adventure but without the coast-guard chopper. What do I need to do differently to have a successful, safe BFS??


----------



## chall03

Fair enough. That too me would yeah seem fairly dumb.

Now I think I have that bit covered. 
I have wanted to circumnavigate since 22. I am now 30 and wish only to cruise to Asia and back. I would never think of leaving in Aussie Cyclone season. I have seen what 90 knots does to boats and it is nothing good.


----------



## smackdaddy

Well, all I can say is that wasn't a BFS - that was an SAR. There's a big difference in my opinion.

I think many people still miss what BFS is all about. It's about the adventurous side of sailing. It's about the excitement of it. It's about pushing your individual limits and getting better and better. All of that is REALLY fun.

Furthermore, it's seriously tongue in cheek. Some people think that stories like these are "bragging". Well, for some, that might be so. But for most, it's excitedly telling your story of how you accomplished something great, whether it's a first time heel under full sail, or a successful ride-out of a bigger storm than you've ever faced before. Both of those stories are filled with adventure, excitement...and, most importantly, education.

Yes, some get too caught up in the adventure/excitement side of sailing and end up needing to use the EPIRB because they didn't pay enough attention to the educational side of sailing. Just as on the other end of the spectrum, some get too caught up in the educational side of sailing to the point that they refuse to ever leave the dock because they're too afraid to screw up. It's a debate that has gone on for a very long time. 

But at the end of the day, BFS is meant to be nothing more than fun. It's the fun that pulled every single one of us to this sport in the first place. And we're all here trying to learn more about how to do it well.


----------



## St Anna

smackdaddy said:


> Well, all I can say is that wasn't a BFS - that was an SAR. There's a big difference in my opinion.
> 
> I think many people still miss what BFS is all about. It's about the adventurous side of sailing. It's about the excitement of it. It's about pushing your individual limits and getting better and better. All of that is REALLY fun.
> 
> Furthermore, it's seriously tongue in cheek. Some people think that stories like these are "bragging". Well, for some, that might be so. But for most, it's excitedly telling your story of how you accomplished something great, whether it's a first time heel under full sail, or a successful ride-out of a bigger storm than you've ever faced before. Both of those stories are filled with adventure, excitement...and, most importantly, education.
> 
> Yes, some get too caught up in the adventure/excitement side of sailing and end up needing to use the EPIRB because they didn't pay enough attention to the educational side of sailing. Just as on the other end of the spectrum, some get too caught up in the educational side of sailing to the point that they refuse to ever leave the dock because they're too afraid to screw up. It's a debate that has gone on for a very long time.
> 
> But at the end of the day, BFS is meant to be nothing more than fun. It's the fun that pulled every single one of us to this sport in the first place. And we're all here trying to learn more about how to do it well.


OK, Smacker, with your philosophy in mind... My better half has decided to visit Lord Howe for a few weeks in 2 months time. I have a huge list of boat jobs needed before I feel ready to take that trip. It is one of my demons I have to get over so I am probably dragging my heels a bit. So will that trip constitute a BFS or do we need an added scare factor?


----------



## smackdaddy

Dude, you're the only scare factor she'll need. Heh-heh.


----------



## chall03

Ok for all the non Aussie's here This Lord Howe island BFS is serious. 
We are talking a fairly remote island, 3-4 days sail at minimum from mainland Australia across a fairly treacherous bit of water known as the Tasman sea. 

The british navy when last in this region hit infamous Wolfe rock. So named after the 'HMS Wolfe' the previous birtish navy ship to hit it.....
Oh the lagoon is barely tenable in rough weather.....but this is really one real pretty island for St Anna when he gets there


----------



## smackdaddy

St Anna said:


> OK, Smacker, with your philosophy in mind... My better half has decided to visit Lord Howe for a few weeks in 2 months time. *I have a huge list of boat jobs needed before I feel ready to take that trip. It is one of my demons I have to get over so I am probably dragging my heels a bit.* So will that trip constitute a BFS or do we need an added scare factor?


I understand St's been sailing his entire life. And judging by the bolded statement above, he's taking it seriously and prepping. I don't think they're demons St., I think you're being smart and cautious.

So, it seems to me you're doing it exactly right.

As Chall said, it's a beautiful destination across some potentially dangerous waters. That's sailing.


----------



## smackdaddy

cardiacpaul said:


> _"So, it seems to me you're doing it exactly right."_
> 
> oh yea, thats a resounding approval from the resident expert, the guy thats been all over a 19,000 acre lake on a 27 ft boat for less than 3 years.
> 
> YOU have no frickin' clue if they are doing it exactly right or not.
> Thats exactly what I mean. You shoot off your mouth, and have NO frame of reference.
> shut up before you get somebody killed.
> 
> Cool... dude.
> I hear the 6th st. Arts festival has an opening for a t-shirt vendor.


I'm not speaking as an expert...never have. In fact, I've always been very upfront about my lack of experience.

Like I said, preparation is a good thing. Seems that's a universal truth when it comes to sailing. What do you see in St's post that, from an expert's POV, tells you he is or is not doing it right?


----------



## jrd22

St Anna said:


> OK, Smacker, with your philosophy in mind... My better half has decided to visit Lord Howe for a few weeks in 2 months time. I have a huge list of boat jobs needed before I feel ready to take that trip. It is one of my demons I have to get over so I am probably dragging my heels a bit. So will that trip constitute a BFS or do we need an added scare factor?


Let me get this straight- you are looking/hoping for a "scare factor" while offshore so that you can "qualify" for a BFS? I know this was said somewhat tongue in cheek, but I have to question your priorities. I'm not an expert, and I don't have much offshore time logged, but I try to do everything I can to avoid "scare factors", they come along regularly enough as it is. Just my two cents.


----------



## micksbuddy

CP, you clearly have a serious dislike for Smacky, but since this is an internet forum he(like anyone else) gets to say his piece. And it's unlikely that anyone who spends much time reading here will mistake him for an experienced sailing authority, thus it seems equally unlikely that his advice will kill ANYBODY. He has also regularly(like he said) claimed not to be an authority. If you just can't stand it, you should probably follow through on your promise to put him back on 'ignore'.


----------



## CharlieCobra

I think he's looking for a bit of adrenaline rush, not so much a scare factor. More of the rail hard in the water thing while sailing in a Gale in protected waters. I've sailed in stuff up to Force 11 but in the Sound without the chance of wind waves on top of giant swells that 4,000 miles of fetch will bring ya. If offshore, I wouldn't be willing to go sailing in those conditions. What you might find acceptable changes when out of sight of land and out of range of rescue. You would NOT catch me sailing in Force 9+ conditions offshore on purpose. I enjoy spirited sailing but I don't have a death wish. If I get caught out in it, that's the chances ya take and if I get caught out, I can fall back on what I learned while doing that BFS sailing in the Sound.


----------



## tommays

The irritant is this all to pimp BFS products


----------



## CharlieCobra

I don't think so. He didn't come up with that idea until long after he started this thread and became an irritant to some here and elsewhere.


----------



## smackdaddy

sww914 said:


> Are there any graphics dudes on board who can slice out some cool BFS stickers? I'd sport one with pride.


No - that's not it Tom. This post above, on page 67 was the spark. The idea for BFS stuff came out of this thread - the thread wasn't started to pimp gear. That's completely wrong. There was nothing underhanded here...ever.

Run a whois search on the site and you'll see what I mean. Look at the date of the above post and compare it with the registration date of the site:

Domain Name: BFSSHOP.COM
Created on: 12-Nov-08
Expires on: 12-Nov-10
Last Updated on: 13-Nov-08

This is what I mean when I say..."You started it."

It was all in fun - based on what was a bunch of us Sailnet members enjoying great sailing stories. I just ran with sww's question and made it happen. What's wrong with that?


----------



## johnshasteen

cardiacpaul said:


> _"So, it seems to me you're doing it exactly right."_
> 
> oh yea, thats a resounding approval from the resident expert, the guy thats been all over a 19,000 acre lake on a 27 ft boat for less than 3 years.
> 
> YOU have no frickin' clue if they are doing it exactly right or not.
> Thats exactly what I mean. You shoot off your mouth, and have NO frame of reference.
> shut up before you get somebody killed.
> 
> Cool... dude.
> I hear the 6th st. Arts festival has an opening for a t-shirt vendor.


CP, lighten up and go sailing!!!! Life's too short.


----------



## captbillc

Smack----- i enjoy reading the posts on this thread. some of them remind me of weather i have been in. it all helps with your sailing experience that you acquire over the years.


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## smackdaddy

Thanks cap. If it wasn't for great sailing tales, the world would be a sad place.

Now....about that weather you've been in.....


----------



## captbillc

we left southwest harbor ,maine at night on november 3rd. i believe it was 1988, into deteriorating weather to deliver a 50ft shannon ketch to the virgins by way of bermuda. the second day out it was blowing a steady 40 gusting to 57kn. wind was NE against the gulf stream so the waves were steep. the night was so black you had a hard time seeing the waves. i was at the wheel about 2AM when a graybeard pooped us & filled the cockpit. i held my feet up till it drained so my sea boots were not full. we had the full main up & were making 10 kn down the waves & 8 kn up. we passed a fishing vessel heading into it . it looked like he was really getting pounded. this went on for several days. when we approached bermuda the wind was light so we put a long line over the stern & went swimming in 6,000ft of water. some people say they would never do that, but i tell them you can drown in 6ft of water.


----------



## NICHOLSON58

Let the stupid jerk run into someone else - or aground. I raced with a crew of 12 core people for 18 years and we never contacted another boat. Its just not worth the headache for a flag or two hours in the protest room and a call to your agent. Stay smart and out of trouble. We won a lot of races that way and enjoyed a lot of barbeques after - with the skipper able to join us. 

Also, remember the rule of tonnage. Just stay away from danger, especially if its bigger than you, made of steel and owned by some non-present entity.


----------



## capnvega

Thanks for the Thaddus Jay quote Mr. Bubb, I'd forgotten exactly how it went.........Now for my first BFS: 1973 and it was the 1st sailboat I'd been on, a large Venture Catamaran in a windy lake in AZ. We were flying around a point with me on the high side and as we cleared the point we caught a gust that launched me 15' into the air where I hit the sail and was smacked back onto the trampoline and bounced overboard. I told the "Captain" that I wasn't going back out until he installed seatbelts..........In 1985 after having stink-pots up to 38' for 12 years I moved to the SF Bay Area and bought a 22' Tanzer. Not wanting to show my lack of skill to anyone I would motor down the Napa River to where it widened and pulled the sail out of the bag marked "Working Jib". I'd try to sail in every kind of condition with that head-sail, and man can it blow up that river! I didn't think I was ever going to get the hang of that sailing stuff.....I couldn't even handle the "Working Jib" in that weather. Well after about a year I could sail in about anything the Bay had shown me and I decided to try the Dreaded Big Genoa. So I dug out the bag marked "Genoa" and {you guessed it......there was the working jib!)


----------



## smackdaddy

Heh-heh - so vega that working jib was indeed one big freakin' sail! I bet you had your rail buried most of the time on that Tanser. Good times.

billc - holy crap. I've been on the boat only once in 50 knot winds...and that was at the slip! Seriously freaky. So what's it like hearing that hiss of the graybeard sneaking up behind you? Anyway, I agree, 6 or 6000 what's the difference?

nicholson - good advice.


----------



## St Anna

jrd22 said:


> Let me get this straight- you are looking/hoping for a "scare factor" while offshore so that you can "qualify" for a BFS? I know this was said somewhat tongue in cheek, but I have to question your priorities. I'm not an expert, and I don't have much offshore time logged, but I try to do everything I can to avoid "scare factors", they come along regularly enough as it is. Just my two cents.


For the record, I NEVER add or look for a scare factor or adrenaline rush. I leave that for surfing or a rollercoaster ride etc. Not whilst sailing my family in our home across an infamous stretch of water. So you definetely got my intentions wrong. I obviously am not making myself clear, so I apologise for that.

I asked the question, because I have been asked on more than one occasion to add a post in the BFS thread. I was only putting down my plans/thoughts and was asking if Smacker felt it qualified as a BFS - or to qualify, does it need a scare factor.

I may not get everything ready in time before, so it may have to wait a year.

I apologise for what must have been misleading and thus caused a few defensive posts. I'll stay in the background now. I guess this form of communication is very poor.


----------



## smackdaddy

St - what would Ronnie-Johns-cum-Chopper-Reid say, mate?

Seriously, have you seen my BFS in this thread? Unable to exit the slip because the wind was a little cheeky? Does that have a scare factor for the likes of you? Exactly. But for me, I was freaking. Huge scare factor.

See that's the beauty of BFS. It's all relative! It's guys like CP that totally miss this point. But I digress...like 125,000 years in that particular case...but seriously...

The way I see it, if this jaunt is something you've not done before, and if its something you're taking seriously and prepping for, and if you do it...it's a freakin' BFS. Period.


----------



## smackdaddy

C-CP...I KNEW I wasn't on your ignore list! Just kidding around. Couldn't you just hear the rimshot?

How you feelin' dude? I do hope you recover quickly. You've definitely had your share of hospitaling. Hang in there Paul. And take that fund we contributed to and GO SAILING!


----------



## smackdaddy

Yeah I know. You've made that pretty clear. But I have nothing against you Paul.

So feel however you need to feel. I still hope you get better soon.

As for the other stuff...you'll see...it's just the plain old goodness of people. (My bad.)


----------



## Faster

Giu and CP .... Please get off this train. You are not in OT and these attacks are over the line regardless of your rationale or reasons for them.


----------



## smackdaddy

Giulietta said:


> BFS...now I know..Big Failure Sindrome


Giu - in this case, you are absolutely right. I sent you a PM apologizing for the inadvertent outing. I hadn't read closely enough while I was there to put it together. A serious fail.


----------



## painkiller

Giulietta said:


> BFS...now I know..Big Failure Sindrome


Seriously, Giu? You HAD to post that? WTF? Enough of this nonsense.


----------



## sailingdog

Seriously guys, all you're doing is feeding the troll. *IMHO, if anyone is stupid enough to take SmackDaddy's advice on anything serious, they're good candidates for a Darwin and deserve what they get.*


----------



## sailortjk1

That has been my point all along.
BFS has its place and it was a bit of fun in the beginning.
But as I have always said, there simply is no need. 
We sail, thats it, stories come along, they are good stories, true adventures.
But to promote such activity can lead to danger, especially when somebody gets in over their head.
I can just picture it now, "I've only been sailing 6 times, but I heard all about this BFS on Sailnet and some dude named Smacky told me to go out when it was blowing 30. He said it would make me a better man. Well we did, and there were 8' seas. We hit the rocks and now my boat is shattered into splinters, I have no insurance and its a total loss." 

Yes, I was guilty of adding material here in the begginning, I even sent Smack same videos. Now I sail when I can. Those who know me know I don't run when things get dicey. Just no need to promote it; it's sailing, thats all. It's what we do. 

I realise that this is not a popular opinion here, and I realise I will probably be taking some heat for voicing my opinion. But with this thread and the BFS Shop and everything else; I can see it leading to a bad ending by someone not prepared or inexperienced.


----------



## smackdaddy

Tim,

One of the best discussions I've seen as to what BFS is all about was actually on the stuffiminto site...*here.*

I wasn't even a part of it because at that point I'd already been banned. And maybe that's what made it so good. Heh.

Here's one of the best summations of BFS (by Cam actually) after someone said "Let's see.. could it be that day sailors use BFS and cruisers do not?":

_Day sailors? How about sailors who enjoy pushing their boats and their own limits and the thrill of sailing? 
Now I am a CRUISER...I don't push my boat or myself beyond the limits of what I consider good seamanship and prudence. But I would not call those that do "day sailors". The Vendee Globe folks are not day sailors.

Every once in a while mother nature conspires to provide a BFS to us all. Those who have done their homework and are prepared usually make it through. It is those that don't that end up more frequently with their Darwin awards._

That nails it IMO.

With that, I'm going to go do some Thanksgivinging. Happy holidays to all you guys - even the grumpy ones.

See you soon!


----------



## johnshasteen

CP, where in Texas are you?


----------



## sailhog

johnshasteen said:


> CP, where in Texas are you?


He's in Cardiacville, which is deep in the heart of Texas. To get there you have to bypass Coronaryartery.


----------



## blt2ski

Hopefully CP is NOT on meds for the high BP IIRC he has, or the cuban is NOT causing issues...........

Some take the BFS a bit too serious IMHO!

Marty


----------



## knothead

painkiller said:


> Seriously, Giu? You HAD to post that? WTF? Enough of this nonsense.


A-freaking-men.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Irritating ain't it?

Folks who read this thread that have half a brain can see the purpose for it. Those who might read it and sail out into a storm in an under equipped boat and without the skills to survive are Darwin candidates anyway and will find a way whether it's by sailing or not. That or they're too stupid to survive regardless. This is a fun thread for some of us who enjoy pushing the limits during a spirited sail. If that ain't you, read or post no further. If it is you, enjoy. How simple could it be. To bash a person because of their position on this is ludicrous and shows you to be the hater you are... Get a life already.


----------



## tdw

sailhog said:


> He's in Cardiacville, which is deep in the heart of Texas. To get there you have to bypass Coronaryartery.


lol...well put my porcine friend.....you have the most delightful way of putting things into an appropriate perspective......using a tenth of the number of words I need.....

Can I go back to the porn channel now ?


----------



## blt2ski

tdw said:


> Can I go back to the porn channel now ?


"ONLY" if you have some popcorn and beer handy! along with fuzzy mate!


----------



## ste27

Smack, figured you'd like this one - interesting experience for my first time racing an IOD... I believe the upright one on the right is us - pic is from scuttlebutt, racing in our IOD Nationals

Also included is a pic of what these boats took like in calmer weather!


----------



## micksbuddy

Ditto what Blt2ski, Knothead & CharlieCobra said!


----------



## smackdaddy

Holy crap, Ste! That looks sick! What were the conditions?

BTW - nice work keeping your stern planted.

*Here's another little reminder of the importance of the tether* - and how quickly things can go silly.

Gotta go back to the party. See you guys in a few days.


----------



## NICHOLSON58

Reminds me of a simple club race down wind start a few years ago off Cleveland. Afterguard picked up on black horizon (20 miles) and the skipper called to get the kite off the deck and douse the # 2 we were using to maneuver. By the time the gun cracked, we were main alone at 10 knots with water spouts behind us. Five boats shredded kites and two kevlar mains were torn. We won. Lot of kilobucks passed the sail loft floor that day. What a ride. We saw daylight between the keel and the rudder of the Norlien 41 behind us.


----------



## ste27

smackdaddy said:


> Holy crap, Ste! That looks sick! What were the conditions?
> 
> BTW - nice work keeping your stern planted.
> 
> *Here's another little reminder of the importance of the tether* - and how quickly things can go silly.
> 
> Gotta go back to the party. See you guys in a few days.


Surprisingly, probably only in the low 20's. IODs are very old-school boats designed in the 30's. 33 ft long, 45 ft mast, but only 6.75 ft of beam. They rock and roll downwind like crazy, constantly going from dipping one rail to dipping the other when the wind is up. In fact, class rules include the W (wuss!) flag for no spinnakers if the race is started in more than about 18. The pic just looks more impressive 'cause of the white wall of water that's coming down... another 30 seconds and the photographer wouldn't have been able to see the boats


----------



## smackdaddy

I ran across this one in another forum. Scary stuff:

*Pete Goss and The Knock Down*

And the beginning of that storm...





Back to the issue of luck plus seamanship. What do you do with a "freak wave". Great story.


----------



## smackdaddy

Just stole this from the insane singlehanders thread. It definitely rates in my book...



fullkeel7 said:


> As Jeff_H said, sailing short handed can at times duplicate sailing singlehanded, especially at 4-5 AM... can't see the hand in front of you and it's blow'n 25 to 30 knots and wave heights are running 12 to 16 ft. It's kinda like being a fetus and Mommy's on a slow motion trampoline!
> Those conditions were maybe 5 or 6 days of the 12 day trip to St. Thomas from the Abacos and don't get me wrong...it was the best sailing I've ever experienced.
> 
> The skipper was a hell of a sailor, the boat was full keeled and well found. She was a perfect performer for the conditions we were sailing in and I never felt in any danger at any time. There were, however, times I wished I could have walked on water!  The forward birth was filled with family stuff, so I spent my off watch time sleeping on one or the other settees, tack dependant. I don't want to spend 12 HOURS on my couch at home let alone sleep on a pitching surface somewhat smaller for 12 DAYS. Four hours on, four off...sometime, about the seventh or eight day, EVERTHING including going to the head was a chore. Sure gave me some heighten respect for those who do sail singlehanded for WEEKS/MONTHS.
> 
> Long story short, after we arrived at St. Thomas, I was worthless (and sometimes was during the trip) and exhausted. I learned that I really didn't NEED to travel the oceans to enjoy sailing singlehanded or short handed. I know my shortcommings were my own fault due to my not being prepared for the trip (the skipper acted like he'd just stepped out of a soothing massage). The trip was one of those "crew needed immediately" sites and I flew to the Bahamas thinking it was an 'island hopping trip'. Wrong! I had bitten off more than I had bargained for. Seven hundred miles due east to pick up the trades and THEN head south. After twelve days, I was in the best physical shape I've been in for some time but felt like doggie doo with the crap kicked out of it!  Still, I felt very privledged to be out there and grateful I was given an experience I'll not forget.
> 
> I still would like to sail my own boat (STILL looking) and explore both coasts of Florida, the Keys with a side trip to Ft. Jefferson and even down into the Virgins. That should keep me busy for...I dunno...the REST of my life maybe!  For SELF be true, don't need no BLUE!
> 
> Looking back at those long watches, I really don't know where the long distant singlehandlers get their motivation from...I just know it's not in me like I thought it was.


Great write up Keel.


----------



## smackdaddy

Here's another well-handled BFS that has sparked a *GREAT THREAD HERE*:



seb5thman said:


> This summer I chartered a 36' Hunter out of MDR California for a sail to Catalina Island. After a day in Two-Harbors we sailed around to the back side of the island and spent the night in Cat Harbor. The next morning was beautiful with the weather report calling for 2'-3' seas with wind 8-10 kts picking up to 12-15 kts in the afternoon. Our plan was to sail completely around the island and spend the night in Avalon.
> 
> About 2-hours into our sail things changed drastically. The winds picked up to steady 20-22 kts with gusts up to 28 kts coming from behind me (180 degrees) and I was afraid of an accidental jibe. The seas got big (for me) with what I would estimate to be 12-15' following seas. I felt very out of control. I put my wife and younger son down below while my adult son and I tied onto the cockpit with lines (we did not have harnesses).
> 
> After reducing sail I regained some control of the boat, but the following seas were so large and breaking that I was afraid I would get pooped. I made the decision to forego our trip around the island and return to Cat Harbor under motor, which took us a couple of hours.
> 
> I am a new sailor and have taken the ASA 101, 103, 104 courses. I have been out with an instructor a couple of other times but never experienced the conditions we did on this day. When we got back to Two-Harbors the next day several boats had their head sails blown out and the Harbor Patrol had to moor all the boats coming in because the wind was so high.
> 
> I felt so demoralized because up to that point I was pretty confident in what I had learned over the past couple of years. Here's what I'm asking:
> 
> 1. How could I have continued with the downwind sail? (When the winds are high I feel more comfortable sailing into the wind than with it)
> 2. How do you deal with large breaking waves from behind?
> 3. Any other suggestions?
> 
> My confidence is still a bit shot so thanks for not taking unnecessary shots at me, but I would appreciate any solid advice or critique.
> 
> Thanks.


Followed by a great summation reply from CoastalEddie (there are many more great responses in the thread as well):



CoastalEddie said:


> The far side of Catalina is pretty much open ocean, there really aren't any tidal currents to speak of (unless one is REALLY close to shore). However, the fact that the wind increased in intensity rather quickly probably accounts for the steepness of the wavefronts. Without much fetch (distance AND time), the waves just hadn't had enough time to sort themselves out.
> 
> Seb-
> 
> First of all, you made the right decision, for you and your crew. Had you kept going it would have taken you several uncomfortable (and anxious) hours to get to Avalon; turning back to Cat Harbor may have made for an even less comfortable ride, but undoubtedly lowered your anxiety level considerably (since you knew that a safe harbor was just a little ways away).
> 
> Given your description, it sounds like the wind was Force 5 - gusting to Force 6 (I never have had a boat with a dependable anemometer, so I just use the good ol' Beaufort scale). At that wind speed you can get fairly large waves IF the wind has been blowing for several hours (maybe 8 - 12) over open water. At the start of a blow the waves will be considerably smaller, BUT much steeper, often making for a very uncomfortable motion. Once you get some more experience you'll probably consider conditions like this "spirited sailing". However, Force 6 is about as strong a wind with which most recreational sailors feel really comfortable.
> 
> The point has been made that motoring into the wind and waves probably made for a less comfortable ride than running with them. That's true for three reasons: first, your apparent wind probably increased by 12 to 15 kts (your boat's speed x2) when you turned around; second, you were also plowing into the waves at a much higher speed (wave speed plus boat speed, rather than wave speed minus boat speed), making the impact of the bow against the waves much more forceful; and lastly, the face of a wind-driven wave is much steeper than the back of the wave (unlike the situation for ocean swell, where the two sides are more or less symmetric). Together, all this probably made for a pretty wet ride back to Cat Harbor.
> 
> But, at the time, I'll bet you felt better turning around. Why? Probably because you had a near-by harbor to aim for (always a comforting thought); and you weren't used to the yawing that a following sea will induce. With more experience you'll learn how to limit such yawing (by a bit of judicious use of your rudder, and by sailing with the wave off you stern quarter), and you'll get used to the feeling of a small amount of yaw.
> 
> But, don't sweat it too much. NO ONE sails for any length of time without getting a bit scared now and again. Remember, that which does not kill us, makes for a great story to tell (and, the story will only improve with age, since each time you tell it the wind will be a bit stronger and the waves a bit bigger  ).


That's what I'm talkin' about. Score one for the Westies!


----------



## smackdaddy

I gotta say, there have been a slew of great sailing stories of late. Here's a killer BFS from PCP from the Knock Down thread...



PCP said:


> Great thread&#8230;my small contribution:
> 
> Some years ago, on an August night, I was on passage from Cartagena (Spain) to Palma de Maiorca, me and my 16 year-old-daughter, on my 36ft boat. We were about 16 miles off Palma when my daughter joined me on the cockpit. It was her turn to pick the wheel, but as a huge thunder storm was striking far away, on the Spanish mainland and as she was a little bit scared, I stayed with her.
> 
> The wind started to pick up. We were motor sailing with full main 20º off the head wind. The wind went slowly from 20kt to 30kt and I put, the second and later, as a precaution, the third reef (it makes the sail area really small. I use it as a storm sail, up to 45kts of wind).
> 
> Then I saw the "thing" on the radar. It was a huge black area&#8230;and it was coming fast. I told my daughter to go inside and to close the boat. Some minutes later I was hit by pieces of ice almost the size of golf balls. It was impossible to stay at the wheel. I put the autopilot on and took shelter under the spray hood and then the wind came in a big blast. As a precaution my hands were on the stoppers, and I immediately let go the boom and the main halyard, to no avail. The boat laid immediately on its side, the boom in the water and the mast touching it. And it stayed that way for I don´t know how long. A lot it seemed to me. Probably two or three minutes, till the blasting wind disappeared, to return to 35k. At that moment the boat righted itself up without any difficulty and I was surrounded by strange waves that seemed to come from all sides.
> 
> I was at the wheel but I didn´t know where to steer the boat. The sea was not making any sense and I remember to see some waves racing at fantastic speed, like strange animals speeding on the water. Luckily I was not caught by any of those.
> 
> Alf an hour later, everything was "normal" again and I arrived at Palma, at sunrise, as expected. My sail was ripped off from the mast and my banner reduced to shreds.
> 
> In Palma everything was normal, no storm had passed there.
> 
> It took a lot of persuasion and several experienced sailors to convince my daughter that this was not a "normal" situation. But with the changes on the climate, the truth is that a lot of these strange and violent phenomena are happening on the Med.


----------



## smackdaddy

Outstanding day on the water today. Mid 60's, wind around 15-20 SSW, sun shining, and the lake filled with yachts. Freakin' AWESOME.

But, blood was shed. AND I had an actual MOB today. The real deal. Kind of...

Okay, so I took a buddy out who's done a bit of sailing, but this was his first time aboard the infamous _Smacktanic_. He was eager to learn. So I taught him everything I know. Took about 10 minutes. Then we flew across that lake like banshees...hurling insults at the J-Boats as they left us in their wakes. Jerks.

All was well until the dusk docking. Tried sailing into the slip - but the wind was right on our nose. So I fired up the 6 and was easing the last 100' into the slip.

"Just step off onto the finger as we come in and tie us off", I say.

"Will do, Master and Commander" comes the reply from my buddy. (It's just a thing on my boat. You know.).

So, he takes a step off the starboard rail toward the finger. A little squeak and crack as the rubber finger bumper gives way beneath his foot, then nothing but shoes fill the sky. He's a big guy; 6'4" or so. So it was a lot of shoe. Then....huge splash.

_"That didn't really just happen. No freakin' way that just happened." _said my mind as I started working the life-saving checklist.

MOB drill...in the freakin' slip.

I cut the motor so I wouldn't puree my pal. I turn the rudder hard to port to avoid squishing him like a bug and hope that I can wedge the boat diagonally in the slip to give him room. I see him surface and throw him a pfd and tell him to swim forward to avoid the beam of the boat as the momentum is still inching it forward (he had been swimming aft - not good). I then hop off and help him out out of the 58 degree water.

The look on his face is a combination of 15-20 emotions...panic, fury, embarrassment, amazement, bewilderment, hypothermic shock, you name it.

Back on the hard, as he pulls his cell phone out of his waterlogged pocket and removes his soaked hoodie....I fall down L'ing...OL and everything. I mean seriously LOL'ing.

He says he can't wait to come back out. Now THAT'S commitment people.

Oh yeah, the blood. I got a bloody nose today! Yeah baby! We did this super lousy gybe and wrapped the genny around the forestay. So I'm up cranking on the clew to pull it back around. The wind shifts and the genny whips around the stay and BANG, I punch myself right in the nose with a fist-full of clew. I felt just like Sapperwhite from FightClub! It was brilliant!

What a day. What a day. I love yachting.


----------



## bacampbe

That reminds me of an event on my old boat. I know it only second hand, as I was not there at the time. My boat partner and another friend took it out for a good day of sailing. When they came back in, my boat partner tried to step to the dock and missed.

Now, to understand the incident, realize that we had tied a landing yoke in the old slip to help center the boat and absorb excess energy on landing. He fell into the water straddling the yoke line. Since the boat was still moving, he was pushed all the way towards the dock. Still straddling the line. Just avoiding getting truly squished.

Remarkably, there were no injuries involved. But I still cringe every time I think about it. On my new boat, I have a rule that no one steps off the boat until it has come to a complete stop.


----------



## St Anna

smackdaddy said:


> Outstanding day on the water today. Mid 60's, wind around 15-20 SSW, sun shining, and the lake filled with yachts. Freakin' AWESOME.
> 
> But, blood was shed. AND I had an actual MOB today. The real deal. Kind of...
> 
> Okay, so I took a buddy out who's done a bit of sailing, but this was his first time aboard the infamous _Smacktanic_. He was eager to learn. So I taught him everything I know. Took about 10 minutes. Then we flew across that lake like banshees...hurling insults at the J-Boats as they left us in their wakes. Jerks.
> 
> All was well until the dusk docking. Tried sailing into the slip - but the wind was right on our nose. So I fired up the 6 and was easing the last 100' into the slip.
> 
> "Just step off onto the finger as we come in and tie us off", I say.
> 
> "Will do, Master and Commander" comes the reply from my buddy. (It's just a thing on my boat. You know.).
> 
> So, he takes a step off the starboard rail toward the finger. A little squeak and crack as the rubber finger bumper gives way beneath his foot, then nothing but shoes fill the sky. He's a big guy; 6'4" or so. So it was a lot of shoe. Then....huge splash.
> 
> _"That didn't really just happen. No freakin' way that just happened." _said my mind as I started working the life-saving checklist.
> 
> MOB drill...in the freakin' slip.
> 
> I cut the motor so I wouldn't puree my pal. I turn the rudder hard to port to avoid squishing him like a bug and hope that I can wedge the boat diagonally in the slip to give him room. I see him surface and throw him a pfd and tell him to swim forward to avoid the beam of the boat as the momentum is still inching it forward (he had been swimming aft - not good). I then hop off and help him out out of the 58 degree water.
> 
> The look on his face is a combination of 15-20 emotions...panic, fury, embarrassment, amazement, bewilderment, hypothermic shock, you name it.
> 
> Back on the hard, as he pulls his cell phone out of his waterlogged pocket and removes his soaked hoodie....I fall down L'ing...OL and everything. I mean seriously LOL'ing.
> 
> He says he can't wait to come back out. Now THAT'S commitment people.
> 
> Oh yeah, the blood. I got a bloody nose today! Yeah baby! We did this super lousy gybe and wrapped the genny around the forestay. So I'm up cranking on the clew to pull it back around. The wind shifts and the genny whips around the stay and BANG, I punch myself right in the nose with a fist-full of clew. I felt just like Sapperwhite from FightClub! It was brilliant!
> 
> What a day. What a day. I love yachting.


Hey Smacker.
You've joined the club. But, turn towards the MoB as your boat pivots about the middle (CLR). Also, you got off lightly with the clew. Never let it happen again - you can get a nice cerebral haem or, like my dad, lose all your front teeth. If it happens to the skipper, imagine the panic that will set in.

cheers fat lips


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## captbillc

smack----- i broke into a broad grin as i read your post this morning. thanks for making my day. i don't suppose you saw the humor in it at the time.


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## smackdaddy

No, cap, it definitely wasn't funny until afterward. Then it was seriously funny. I'm still breaking out in bursts of laughter today - drawing curious stares.

bcampe - straddling the landing yoke? Ouch! I'm starting to like the idea of staying on the boat until all motion ceases. Or at least having my crew use my old hockey goalie gear for protection while docking.

St - I see what you mean about turning the other way. Thanks for the heads up. We had just nosed in and he stepped off just forward of starboard midship. Since I was still on a port quarter angle coming in I thought I could push the bow into the port finger and essentially wedge to a quick stop. Of course, I was scrambling to kill the motor, grab flotation, take pictures, text all my friends, and freshen my martini. So it was all a blur.

As for the bloody nose. I've learned a valuable lesson. That clew packs a freakin' punch!


----------



## St Anna

smackdaddy said:


> No, cap, it definitely wasn't funny until afterward. Then it was seriously funny. I'm still breaking out in bursts of laughter today - drawing curious stares.
> 
> St - I see what you mean about turning the other way. Thanks for the heads up. We had just nosed in and he stepped off just forward of starboard midship. Since I was still on a port quarter angle coming in I thought I could push the bow into the port finger and essentially wedge to a quick stop. Of course, I was scrambling to kill the motor, grab flotation, take pictures, text all my friends, and freshen my martini. So it was all a blur.
> 
> As for the bloody nose. I've learned a valuable lesson. That clew packs a freakin' punch!


An assisted Darwin Award for your mate doesnt get a mention.

A new nickname for you "Scarface", Master Shredder (almost). Thats why people are always looking for crew, after having snotted, decapitated or shredded the previous batch. Thats really what sailing is about!!! Singlehanders just cant get crew (after having gained a rep for dismemberment of family or crew, or worse) so they are forced to go solo.

Sailing can be a dangerous game ( dependant on who is on the wheel/tiller]


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## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> As for the bloody nose. I've learned a valuable lesson. That clew packs a freakin' punch!


Is that how your glasses got cracked? I always wondered...

Medsailor


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## twinsdad

I have on more than one occasion managed to bang my head on the boom while at the dock. Raising one's head while not looking first is not advised! Man, head injuries are big bleeders even when they're not serious.


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## smackdaddy

MedSailor said:


> Is that how your glasses got cracked? I always wondered...
> 
> Medsailor


Nah. That was from FightClub.


----------



## Plumbean

October 11, 2009. Manhasset Bay.

It was our first year as boat owners, and there was dissension in the ranks. My 7 year old son Jake had thoroughly enjoyed it, throwing himself at the boat (1971 S&S 34) and its nooks and crannies. My 4 year old son wanted nothing to do with sailing (I'm hoping this has worn off by spring) - but everything to do with sleeping aboard. My 2 year old daughter loved it and wanted to steer - always.

As a NYC suburban father commuting to work via train everyday, I always enjoy the two 20 second vistas on my commute as we cross high above Manhasset Bay on the train trestle and then, shortly after stopping at Great Neck, we cross Little Neck Bay, this time low down amongst the grass. Six weeks earlier, I'd been wistfully staring out the window as we crossed Little Neck Bay only to see a small fiberglass dinghy high and dry in the estuary. It was far above the typical high tide line and had clearly been run ashore in a recent storm. Here is my reconnaissance photo from my blackberry.










It became part of my commute to wait and see if it was still there. Three weeks after it first appeared, I took Jake to Citi Field for his first ever baseball game, and as we passed through Little Neck Bay I pointed the dinghy out to him. A few weeks later, it was still there. I confessed to the Admiral my thoughts of salvage.

After a morning of pumpkin picking (an all-time favorite activity for me), it was time. I had told Jake a couple of days earlier that I wanted to make an attempt to salvage the dinghy. My wife thought (knew?) I was nuts, but in my heart this was always more about the adventure than the ending. It was a beautiful day and the forecast was for 12 - 15 knots of breeze out of the North. By the time we dropped off the mooring, it was almost 1:30. I had put up the main before setting out and, being foolish, had laid out the 143% genoa on the foredeck (yes, I have hanked on headsails) instead of the 95% blade. Almost immediately after dropping off, the wind picked up. It was blowing a good 15 at this point, with higher gusts, so I chose to motor sail out of Manhasset Bay under main only. It was like a mid-summer Sunday, there were so many boats out, and with just the two of us on board, I didn't want to deal with the traffic and the big genoa, at least not yet.

After rounding Hewlett Point, I decided to raise the genoa. Almost immediately, we cleared the lee of City Island and the wind picked up. It was blowing a good 18 with gusts over 20, and all I could think about was how difficult this could get if Jake started freaking out and anything went wrong. Instead of being scared, though, he kept asking if we were burying the rail(!), something I had mentioned a couple of months before in passing. Isn't it amazing the things they store in their brains when you think they aren't listening? I'm beginning to wonder what it takes to do this in my boat (we have a lot of tumblehome), as I had to disappoint him with a "no" throughout the trip. By the time we dropped anchor in Little Neck Bay (first time ever anchoring the boat) Jake had already had a trip to remember. It was time for the salvage operation.

We inflated and launched our little tender. Jake was excited as we headed out for the eel grass.










Picking our way along the shore, we found a little rivulet to run up towards the abandoned dinghy, eventually beaching? our inflatable on a mud bank. A 50 yard tromp through the mud and my secret suspicions were confirmed. She had a huge hole in her - beyond my limited capabilities.










Ah well, it had always been more of an excuse than anything else. We returned to the boat and weighed anchor. By now, I knew that our day of firsts was not over. It was obvious that the sun was going to be down long before I picked up the mooring. Even as the temperature dropped, Jake had a ball. He wrapped a blanket around himself and never once complained that his impetuous father had forgotten to bring any food along in case things took longer than expected. There was no moon that night, and it was overcast. I'm not sure I've ever seen such darkness that close to NYC, and I was glad to know that there are so few hazards coming into Manhasset Bay at night. I had known from the start that it was trip Jake would never forget, and it didn't disappoint.


----------



## smackdaddy

Plumb - AWESOME BFS dude! Seriously, that is a great story!

I have to admit I was extremely bummed to see the hole. I was right there with you - tromping through the eel grass - ready to snag the ill-gotten booty. It looked so tempting from the train window, I would have done exactly the same thing.

Sounds like you and your kids had a great adventure. And that's what it's all about, man.

Welcome to SN.


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## KBuckley

Plumbean;

Great story. Captures the joy of sailing, little adventures, & being a Dad, all in one. Made my day.

Best of the season.


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## johnshasteen

A friend of mine up in Wisconsin was taking his Tartan 37 from the marina to winter haul out, but got this far and changed his mind.


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## smackdaddy

John, I can't get anything with the link.


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## twinsdad

Plumb, Thank you for taking me back to my childhood. I used to keep a 12 1/2 foot sloop moored in little neck bay right where you took the picture. I grew up in a house that overlooked the marsh (eel grass) that runs from Great Neck to Little Neck Bay. A real blast from the past. Thanks again.


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## Plumbean

Twinsdad: Happy to oblige. In the small world department, I grew up in Riverside.

BTW, after disappearing for about a month, the dinghy reappeared after the recent snowstorm. It was still there as of this morning, in case anyone is inclined . . .


----------



## CharlieCobra

Nice one Smack. Be advised, that Genny can knock you overboard as well....


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## smackdaddy

I have no doubt about that Charlie. I'll keep practicing those gybes so I can avoid that issue. Just got too lazy on the sheets.


----------



## Bene505

Smack,

I've been pretty busy of late and haven't checked the BFS thread in a long time. Looks like you are doing a good job "sheparding" it along.

Regards,
Brad


----------



## smackdaddy

It's just about the sailing Bene. Nothing more.

No shepherds required.

BTW - was that your dinghy that Plumb scored?


----------



## smackdaddy

Great BFS story from PCP...



PCP said:


> Great thread. There are on these forums a lot of very experienced sailors that seem to enjoy sharing information. Thanks to them.
> I have never been in such a bad weather that needed survival tactics. Just a couple of times with force 10.
> 
> But I know that 40kn of wind is not always too much to sail safely. It depends on the boat. Sure, with a 20ft boat, but not with all sailing boats.
> 
> I have learned a lot with my friend Armand. Armand was a Flemish sailor that lived aboard with his family on a 15 m steel ketch : Horoscoop. 30 years ago his boat was at my home port and he enjoyed it so much that he stayed for some years.
> 
> I had at the time an 80-year-old 22ft traditional sailing boat and one day, when I was going out, he asked me if he could come with me. Later on the day he said that he loved my boat. It turns out that it was very similar to a boat that he had sailed in his youth (he was 60 years old) from Antwerp, around British Islands to Finland where he was shipwrecked by a big storm.
> We became good friends and almost every time I sailed out, Armand joined me.
> 
> One stormy day, I was looking at my boat, seeing if everything was alright when I was surprised by Armand. He came and said to me : let's go sailing. I looked him and said: Are you crazy?
> He said: No, not on yours, today let's sail mine.
> 
> It was at least a force 9, perhaps more, and it was a wonderful sailing. Armand was a great sailor, I was just doing what he told me to do, but between the two of us we had no difficulty in sailing his boat, and what a sail.
> 
> It became a habit, when the stormy winds were blowing, we sailed his boat, not mine. I have very good memories from that time. Armand built some reputation among the fishermen. When they were returning for shelter on their 70ft boats, we were going out for having some fun. I learned in those days that a sailboat well managed is much safer than a motorboat. I remember to pass those fishing boats doing over 10k and feeling comfortable, while they bounced on big waves, doing very little speed, sometimes with their propellers out of water.
> 
> Of course his boat was so heavy that on normal days the best he could do was motorsailing.
> 
> Bottom point, 40ft winds for survival tactics, for an oceangoing boat, it seemed to me a bit excessive. After all on the last Mini Transat the Minis (6,5m) get over 40k winds and all of them (70) went on racing&#8230;and with just a solo sailor. No casualties.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


Armand sounds like a great sailor.


----------



## PCP

Thanks for finding that story interesting enough to repost it here.

Since you like to appreciate good stories I will tell you one that was told to me by a good friend of mine.

This guy is a sailing instructor, member of our national sailing federation and a very good sailor that keeps sailing and cruising with his small Beneteau when much bigger boats run for shelter.

One windy day, he was at the marina when he saw on the horizon a small sail coming fast. The sea was not properly stormy, but it was one of those days most sailors choose to stay at the marina.

It turned out to be a small Dragonfly (Danish trimaran that can make 20K). He helped its solo sailor to put the boat on the marina and was surprised to found out that he was 70 years old and had come alone from Denmark. He could not restrain himself to ask if that boat was not too fast for him.

The guy smiled and said: *"Well, I can go slower, but you cannot go faster"*, said the guy pointing to my friend's boat.

That´s one of those occasions when you find that you should have better remained silent.


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## CalebD

PCP said:


> That´s one of those occasions when you find that you should have better remained silent.


I get the same feeling almost every time I think about posting something on any internet forum like this one.

Nice stories PCP.


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## smackdaddy

Well, it was a nice day on the water today. 10 knots or so, 70 degrees. Very nice sail.

BUT, the big freakin' of the day was actually a BFChristening. Mazerat7 invited me to the renaming/christening of his sweet new C36. What a nice yacht. The man has truly scored. And, of course, I immediately drank all his rum and offended his guests. It was a gas.

It's the first christening I've been to, and Maze definitely did it up right. Poseidon HAD to have gotten a bit misty with all the poetic toasts and champagne schpritzing. Hopefully Maze will give us a thread on it.

Yet again, it's cool getting to meet fellow SiNcitiers. Doesn't sailing just freakin' ROCK!


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## smackdaddy

bljones pointed out this BFS. And a BFS it certainly is...sailing that pushes limits, whatever those limits may be.

Below are the first post in her thread "Too old to cruise?" - and a responding post 3 pages later after she got all inspired by the great sailors here on Sailnet.



Dulcitea said:


> Since I was very young I dreamed about solo circumnavigation. Instead, I had a career and raised four children. I raced on the bay. Now, my children are on their own (and very successful, I might add  So, I bought a Contessa 26. A great boat. . . for a young person??? I have arthritis and I am not strong. I get tired easy. I have scaled down my dream and am fine with that. I don't have to circumnavigate the globe. The Caribbean would make me happy. But, my question is: is it irresponsible and selfish for an older person who can hardly lift the emergency rudder, let alone install it, to put herself out there on the ocean? Or, for that matter, gets winded when she raises the main sail. Fortuantely, I had a pretty profitable (althouth sedentary) career and I'm thinking electric winches. What do you think? But, what happens if they fail? Am I endgandering others? Or, should I just do it? Thanks.





Dulcitea said:


> Your posts inspired me. I feel so much better. I don't have to be adept at sailing my Contessa overnight. It is a learning process. Thank God that part of my body still works. I took a couple of Advil and I could hardly feel the arthritis. The main raised (almost) easily. I practiced with the windvane and took a nap on the boat. A low is moving in. The clouds were spectacular. It was so very lovely. Isn't the sailing community awesome? Thank you all.


You go Dulcitea!


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## smackdaddy

For all those who said he'd never leave the dock - time to eat some barbecued crow.

Definitely an epic BFS CD!



Cruisingdad said:


> Hey Everyone! How are you? Anything exciting happen while I was away? I am sure everyone got along, no bannings, and no rule-breaking!
> 
> Well, I will try and recount a bit of our trip and some pics. A lot of it was very uneventful. Some of it was too eventful and your's truly made at least one bad decision (not the last, I assure you). So, here goes:
> 
> We dropped the boat in Pensacola. I will do a lot more writeups about this later, but let me tell you that Pensacola rates number one on my list of places to take your boat and outfit her. I have been to MANY ports, from San Diego, Houston/Kemah, obviously the Valiant Yard at Texoma, and all over southwest Florida, and I will tell you that these guys are top notch, extremely courteous, VERY NICE, and inexpensive. All those words do not typically go together, as anyone in boating knows. Again, I will do lots of pics and writeups on this later, but for those completing the circle and exiting Mobile, this is a great port to refit if you only want to push east a bit further.
> 
> The outfitting in Pensacola went fairly seemless. Nothing broke on the shipment. We chose Penbsacola because I figured that we might get stuck there for Christmas (which we did) and I wanted a nicer place to spend Christmas with the family than some other ports. And yes, for those interested, Santa Clause does make visits to boats! He took good care of the kiddos (and mom and dad's credit card). I seem to have some of those pics on my other camera, so we will have to hold off there.
> 
> After we had everything ready, Kris and the kids hoped in the truck and headed south to Fort Myers Beach with some good friends of ours that live on the beach. We came VERY close to taking them with us (especially Chase) as it looked like it would be a milk run across the gulf. In the end, we decided not to and simply dad and I went across. This turned out to be a very good decision as you will see shortly.
> 
> I tried to pick my weather window fairly well, and failed miserably. I headed out a tad bit too early. The weather called for a northern to come through after the high and clock the winds around to a favorable reach. Instead, the wind built and never clocked and the seas got nasty. By that time we were committed.
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> By that evening the wind was blowing sustained 25 and gusting to 30. By nightfall it was usstained 25-35, and we saw 50 knots - all out of the freaking east. The problem was that we were heading east too! We tacked and tacked countless miles. The seas grew nast and were breaking over our nose as we rushed down into the trough. We consistently took breakers on the dodger and about every fifteen minutes took one ON TOP of the bimini! I am sorry that the pics suck and they do not do the seas justice, but here goes with some lousy pictures:
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> 
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> 
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> 
> Lots more to tell here, but let's just say that I will be making my way north to Panama City come Spring. It looks an awesome cruising cround and is pretty and relatively cheap. They cater to cruisers and it shows.
> 
> At Panama, on the back side of the low/Northern, we puched out. We may have pushed out a tad bit early, but I wanted to catch the back side and run with it and see how the boat would do offshore in that kind of seas and wind. She did awesome, awesome, awesome! Here, take a look at the speed:
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> Brian and family!


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## PCP777

Glad to see you and the thread are still going strong Smack. I've been doing a bunch of sailing on my buddy's C-27 but nothing I'd call BFS worthy. My C-25 splashes water today with a new bottom job, masthead light and roller furler. This weekend looks like some great sailing in North Texas, good wind and in the sixties all weekend long.

For the people who think you're promoting dangerous sailing and endangering people, they should GTFO of the thread because they're just a bunch of whiny harpies who clearly don't get the spirit of it.

This thread is always the one that leads me back to sailnet. 

Plum and CD, I loved your stories. 

Smack, I like your new merch site but I have a question, what is "Get flicked"? 

BTW, my band is supposed to head down to Austin and play Rockfest during SXSW in March, maybe we can get out for a sail or rum or three?


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## smackdaddy

PCP777 said:


> Smack, I like your new merch site but I have a question, what is "Get flicked"?
> 
> BTW, my band is supposed to head down to Austin and play Rockfest during SXSW in March, maybe we can get out for a sail or rum or three?


PCP - congrats on the upcoming splash dude! And definitely let me know when you're here. The rum and sailing are on me.

As for the "get flicked" - it's one of two things:

1. Getting banned (which I know a lot about).
2. Being the greenhorn crewman in a blow and having the boat "flick" you over the rail like a booger - while the skipper rolls his/her eyes and throws the obligatory Lifesling.

I've got #1 completely covered. And I'm sincerely hoping to avoid #2 when I help JohnShasteen move his boat in the next couple of months. Even so, I'll be sporting that fine hoodie on that sail.


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## PCP777

smackdaddy said:


> PCP - congrats on the upcoming splash dude! And definitely let me know when you're here. The rum and sailing are on me.
> 
> As for the "get flicked" - it's one of two things:
> 
> 1. Getting banned (which I know a lot about).
> 2. Being the greenhorn crewman in a blow and having the boat "flick" you over the rail like a booger - while the skipper rolls his/her eyes and throws the obligatory Lifesling.
> 
> I've got #1 completely covered. And I'm sincerely hoping to avoid #2 when I help JohnShasteen move is boat in the next couple of months. Even so, I'll be sporting that fine hoodie on that sail.


Cool, will do.


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## smackdaddy

As for the safety issue I do want to make one thing clear...

Pushing limits in sailing (the idea behind BFS) *requires much more attention to safety* - than not doing it. Just look at those who race, or those who sail through nasty conditions. If you're not careful...you're dead. I think everyone, including new sailors with at least double digit IQs, really understand this.

Complacency kills.

That said, like I've said a million times, "pushing limits" is very relative. My "limits" as a new sailor are not any other sailor on this board's "limits". The trick is being smart enough to recognize what your limits are and what you need to do to safely prepare for and push them. Because, as you can see by the stories herein, doing that successfully is pretty much the most fun thing you'll ever do in your life.

(This Public Service Announcement brought to you by the "Darwinian Society of Reckless Sailors".)


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## sailingdog

I don't know about you, but I am not too crazy about when someone copies an entire post of mine without my permission to promote his own agenda. Cruisingdad probably feels the same. This is pretty clearly what Smackdaddy keeps doing...like he did with CD's post about his post about his last trip.


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## smackdaddy

Dog, dude, if you want me to uncopy one of your posts just let me know and I'll be happy to oblige. Where is it? And what was my "agenda" with it?

CD's perfectly welcome to do the same.


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## PCP777

sailingdog said:


> I don't know about you, but I am not too crazy about when someone copies an entire post of mine without my permission to promote his own agenda. Cruisingdad probably feels the same. This is pretty clearly what Smackdaddy keeps doing...like he did with CD's post about his post about his last trip.


I thought CD's post was a great example of a BFS and if it hadn't been on this thread I would have missed it. Besides, it's a public forum right? Why would someone need permission to quote what you've posted on a public thread or do you guys have some crazy rules I'm not aware of?


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## sailingdog

Smackdaddy could just as easily have posted a permalink and a brief summary, rather than hijacking the post in its entirety.

First, hijacking the post in its entirety, without permission of the writer is pretty much against the rules of the forum as I recall it, since it is a copyrighted work. In the Terms of service it says:



> Copyright violations are prohibited. *Please link to any web content you are concerned about rather than pasting it on the site*. Some copyright material may be posted on the site under 'fair use' doctrine but moderators will remove any questionable material they find and the copyright holder for the content of your posts may hold YOU responsible


Second, hijacking the post in its entirety instead of posting a permalink adds a lot of redundant data to the server, which in short time will lead to more resources being needed. As SmackDaddy probably doesn't work in the IT field, he probably doesn't have a clue about what this can mean.

Third, IMHO, his primary agenda is to drive traffic to his BFS site... which is a commercial site. It'd be different if he didn't have a link to his commercial site in his signature...but he does. I'd also point out that the Terms of Service say:



> You may not insert a signature in your post promoting a commercial enterprises/website unless you are a Sailnet Advertiser.


Smackdaddy, are you a sailnet advertiser??


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## CharlieCobra

Nah, it's PUBLIC material. If it was on a private blog or something it would be a different story. Dog just doesn't like smack or his BFS thread very much.... However, most times, smack asks a poster's permission before using a post.

Uh huh, smack started this thread a long time before he started that little business of his. He actually started that business after getting suggestions to do so from others up here so chill out Dog..


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## sailingdog

Charlie-

Just cause it is posted on an open internet forum, doesn't mean that the work isn't the property of the person who wrote it or that the material is in the public domain. It is still copyrighted text and photos.



CharlieCobra said:


> Nah, it's PUBLIC material. If it was on a private blog or something it would be a different story. Dog just doesn't like smack or his BFS thread very much.... However, most times, smack asks a poster's permission before using a post.
> 
> Uh huh, smack started this thread a long time before he started that little business of his. He actually started that business after getting suggestions to do so from others up here so chill out Dog..


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## PCP777

sailingdog said:


> Charlie-
> 
> Just cause it is posted on an open internet forum, doesn't mean that the work isn't the property of the person who wrote it or that the material is in the public domain. It is still copyrighted text and photos.


IDK, it's not copy written material from another site, it's a post on another thread in the same forum. I guess if there was a problem CD, who I notice is an ADMIN and a MOD, would handle up.

So why don't you like smack?


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## MazeRat7

*To each his own*

I have really enjoyed this long running thread for several reasons. Mainly it consolidates "prime nuggets" from many different places into one which I can follow like a novel or blog when I want some late night reading to see how others are doing.

Secondly, I appreciate (and I would bet the administrators of the sailnet servers do as well) the fact that while duplication does increase storage requirements, it actually reduces IO bandwidth in terms of setting up and tearing down multiple sessions (from the servers perspective). Considering disk storage is really cheap when compared to IO bandwidth, having multiple stories per requested page is actually an operating cost reduction.

And finally, there are the legal internet copyright issues that vary from country to country. No point in even trying to peel that onion. It will only make you cry. 

Peace,
Maze


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## smackdaddy

Siiiiiggggghhhhhh. First, welcome back Dog. It's good to see you posting again. Really. I hope your holidays were rockin' and that you got some sweet sailing in.

Now that that's outta the way, why do you insist on stirring up trouble, dude? You're doing an admirable job of barking...but, as usual, it's just up the wrong tree.

Let's look at these torrid allegations one by one...



sailingdog said:


> Smackdaddy could just as easily have posted a permalink and a brief summary, rather than hijacking the post in its entirety.


Hellllooooo, dude, I'm right here. You can actually talk _*to*_ me if you'd like.

I asked you earlier what post of yours that you're talking about me "hijacking". You've still not really answered that one. So?

As for adding CD's killer post to the BFS thread...as I said earlier, if he has a problem with it and asks me to remove it...I'm happy to oblige.

Now - as for permalinking or summarizing...no thanks. Too much hassle. It's way easier to just quote the best posts and bring 'em in. Also, I wouldn't want to run the risk of misquoting someone or garbling their prose. Know what I mean?



sailingdog said:


> First, hijacking the post in its entirety, without permission of the writer is pretty much against the rules of the forum as I recall it, since it is a copyrighted work. In the Terms of service it says:
> 
> _Copyright violations are prohibited. Please link to any web content you are concerned about rather than pasting it on the site. Some copyright material may be posted on the site under 'fair use' doctrine but moderators will remove any questionable material they find and the copyright holder for the content of your posts may hold YOU responsible _


I've noticed you like to use terms like "pretty much", "as I recall" and "probably" a lot. Not exactly rock solid legal jargon when throwing around copyright law - but that's neither nor there.

Do you not use the quote feature on SN? Do you ask the original poster's permission when you do? Did you just steal or plagiarize CharlieCobra's previous post when you quoted it? Hmmm.

Have you ever quoted something from one SN thread to the other without asking permission? Were you outraged at yourself when you did it?

Don't I recall you pulling in stuff from other forums (screenshots and the like) and posting it here? Was that crossing your line?

C'mon.

With your reading of the above rule any of these things - very typical with IN-FORUM content - would be verboten. So I think you're grasping on this one.

I'm pretty sure what the rule is talking about is copyrighted content from outside SN being pulled in without permission. And, in any case, the rule states that the mods will delete anything they find questionable. So far things seem to be okay...except with you.

But let's continue...



sailingdog said:


> Second, hijacking the post in its entirety instead of posting a permalink adds a lot of redundant data to the server, which in short time will lead to more resources being needed. As SmackDaddy probably doesn't work in the IT field, he probably doesn't have a clue about what this can mean.


Heh-heh-heh-heh-heh. Wow. Where to start? Okay, first, my hunch is that, based on previous chatter I've seen from rather disgruntled folks about my internet forum "techniques", your main problem is the "Old Salt's..." thread.

Assuming this is right - why did I start it? You should go take a look in that thread to see why. Or look in recent posts in FC for an explanation. In short, it was to save newbs from having to dig through hundreds of old threads to find great information from great sailors. From this one central location (the Old Salt's thread) they can then jump directly into the threads from which the best posts came and continue the discussion based on their needs.

It seems that someone around here...can't remember who...routinely told them to dig to hell and back to find stuff themselves so they wouldn't ask such stupid questions (bandwidth). Then they told them, quite firmly, never to float an old thread - but to start new ones instead (storage).

Now, take a deep breath and think for a moment Dog. According to your redundant data paradigm above, which of these approaches is far more brilliant? Exactly. And the Old Salt technique is not only carbon neutral, it actually HELPS newbies to SN find info they're looking for without having to ask the salts the same old questions!

I amaze myself...even without an IT clue!

I'm actually curious as to the real reasons you think doing something like this is a bad thing.



sailingdog said:


> Third, IMHO, his primary agenda is to drive traffic to his BFS site... which is a commercial site. It'd be different if he didn't have a link to his commercial site in his signature...but he does. I'd also point out that the Terms of Service say:
> 
> _"You may not insert a signature in your post promoting a commercial enterprises/website unless you are a Sailnet Advertiser."_
> 
> Smackdaddy, are you a sailnet advertiser??


Look at the ad in the middle of various pages. Yes I am. As Charlie said, the online store grew out of this very thread. Not the other way around.

However, being a SN advertiser doesn't give me any leeway to be a jerk. It actually gives me far less. And I understand that.

So, if you'll stop with the weirdness, I'll stop with the sarcasm. I'm happy to talk it out WITH YOU if you'd like. But you'll need to talk TO me, not make proclamations ABOUT me. Deal?

Oh yeah - and finally, I have ALWAYS asked for and received written permission to use any outside content on the BFS site. (BTW - when are you gonna BFS dude?)


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## knothead

Dog's just in a bad mood today. He has already corrected me in a different thread for suggesting that someone could safely pass a piece of ribbon through a centerboard cable for marking purposes without suffering dire consequences. 
As if I don't know what corrosion is.


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## smackdaddy

Yeah - but for some crazy reason, you just have to kind of love the guy. You know what I mean?

I think he just needs a good noogie.


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## knothead

Doggies love to be scratched on the rump. But I'm not going there.


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## Mc51

*Weather*

Hey Smackdaddy why don't you come down to Pensacola and go for a sail. My CAL is in the backyard waiting for me to finish the new bottom job. But the H16 is in the front yard ready to go. We might find some BFS the winds get up there regularly this time of the year.

Mc


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## smackdaddy

MC - I would LOVE to fly a hull on a Hobie. I've never sailed on one but they look freakin' awesome. I've thought about eventually buying one for my 2 sons so they'll have something to get crazy on as they get older.

You better watch it - because I've actually taken up a few invitations around here. And be advised, I drank all their liquor and left the toiled seat up! I'm no picnic.


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## Mc51

Come on down! The artic freeze has moved back to the north. Forcast this week is partly thunderstorm (good for BFS) with Highs around 68. I'll put my grandson on toilet seat patrol. Can't take a chance on the women getting mad about that one and there is allways more high octane to be found at the store


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## PCP777

Last time I sailed on an H16, we pitch poled and this happened to my toe.


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## smackdaddy

I just threw up a little in my mouth. Thanks for that PCP.

Good lord man, have you no shame!?!


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## PCP777

smackdaddy said:


> I just threw up a little in my mouth. Thanks for that PCP.
> 
> Good lord man, have you no shame!?!


LMAO. It's still trying to grow back. Hobie's are a blast and in any kind of breeze they can put you in a BFS quickly but they are a handful to right if you capsize or pitch pole. Make sure you tie the cooler down well.

I found an H16 for $100 for a friend of mine, with trailer and good sails. Only problem was some old lines and a tear in the tramp.


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## MazeRat7

bunch a years back a friend who knew nothing about sailing bought a hobie. Ask me to take him out and give some pointers. Well to make a long story short, Once under some way the port pontoon started lifting. He was convinced we were going over, which we weren't at that point, so he jumped off. Seriously. my counter weight literally bailed on me. Up went the port side and shortly there after starboard dug in deep. Game over.

We both got wet, I had a blast, and he sold the boat the following month. Go figure. 

Peace,
Maze


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## smackdaddy

Okay PCP, although it made me nauseous to do it, I couldn't resist mocking up the next killer product idea since the Big Freakin' Shamwow...

Coaster anyone?










Can you imagine seeing that thing every time you took a sip? It would make ANYONE AND EVERYONE much better looking at the bar! And you'd probably stop drinking forever.

Now - enough skanky feet...who's sailing this weekend?


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## jaschrumpf

PCP777 said:


> LMAO. It's still trying to grow back. Hobie's are a blast and in any kind of breeze they can put you in a BFS quickly but they are a handful to right if you capsize or pitch pole. Make sure you tie the cooler down well.
> 
> I found an H16 for $100 for a friend of mine, with trailer and good sails. Only problem was some old lines and a tear in the tramp.


I'm thinking: pitchpoling means you ran into a wave whose height is greater enough than the length of your boat that it can toss it tail-over-tincups.

How does a Hobie 16 get into a sea state that severe? Or are there conditions that will toss a Hobie less than that?

Thanks!


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## smackdaddy

jaschrumpf said:


> ...can toss it tail-over-tincups.


schrumpf - I think you might mean "toenail-over-tinsnips".


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## sailingdog

A wave doesn't have to be very tall to pitchpole the boat. If the boat hits the back of a wave and the bow gets stuffed into it... and it is going fast enough... it will pitchpole.



jaschrumpf said:


> I'm thinking: pitchpoling means you ran into a wave whose height is greater enough than the length of your boat that it can toss it tail-over-tincups.
> 
> How does a Hobie 16 get into a sea state that severe? Or are there conditions that will toss a Hobie less than that?
> 
> Thanks!


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## Mc51

A pitchpole isn't very much fun, but if you manage to save it at that last second its great. One time my son and I were blasting across the bay in 20kt winds, he was on the tiller and I was hanging off the side in the trap harness, The boat started to pitchpole. He reacted quick enough to keep us up. I'm not sure how he did that time because his ballast (me) wasn't paying attention. I bounced off the jib and ended up on the downwind side of the mast. The best fun I've every had on it though, is launching the whole boat into the air off of big waves.


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## smackdaddy

Pitchpoling a Hobie doesn't seem to take that much seastate at all. I mean, what's the freeboard on the thing when you're flying one of the hulls? 3"?

Mcfitty - that sounds like a blast dude. (The launching thing, not the being launched thing).


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## Mc51

Probably close to that when your flying a hull, depending on the weight of the crew. We always do better with avoiding pitchpole when I am on the helm. That puts more weight toward the back of the boat. When my 10 year old grandson and I are out and he is on the tiller I have to be careful about not moving to far forward on choppy days.


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## Mc51

Can somebody tell me how to insert a picture into a post. I have a good bow on view of my son flying a hull that I tried to insert but it didn't show


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## smackdaddy

Here you go McFitty:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/sailnet-how-tos/28958-steps-posting-pictures.html


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## Mc51

*JB Flying*

Okay, second attempt. Bow on pic of my son flying a hull.


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## Mc51

It was a firewall issue. I got that corrected but the pic is small. If you want to see a larger view got to my member gallery


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## PCP777

jaschrumpf said:


> I'm thinking: pitchpoling means you ran into a wave whose height is greater enough than the length of your boat that it can toss it tail-over-tincups.
> 
> How does a Hobie 16 get into a sea state that severe? Or are there conditions that will toss a Hobie less than that?
> 
> Thanks!


Smack, that picture is HILARIOUS.

The sea state was anything but severe, wind was 15 to 20 knts on the lake. We were cooking along close to the wind, the starboard pontoon started flying and the port pontoon went underwater and dug in and that was all she wrote. I was thrown forward and landed on the main sail. The toe nail damage occurred during our failed attempt at righting the boat. My toe got stuck in the little gap on between the deck and the hull. SNAP!

This weekend we had some great sailing, not exactly BFS material but good times. Friday night we had a nice fresh steady breeze, were running along at a 30 to 40 degree heel under the stars. My C 25 is fast now with the new bottom job and now I'm running a 135 with a new roller furler so it was nice to be able to get out and test the new rig and sail.


















Sunday we had a steady sustained breeze right at 17 to 20 knts out of the north. Had a nice sail down wind to the dam on the lake but getting home got exciting. To get home we pulled down the main and beat home through a 2 foot chop. Hull was crashing through the waves and we were getting a little bit wet. My three year old slept through the whole thing, flanked by pillows in the quarter berth. We had to pull the cabin hatch back so that he didn't get wet with the bow spray. Fortunately for us the wind shifted to the west and were able to get back by the marina in 3 tacks. The sun came back out and the wind dropped for just enough time for me to raise the main and then it came back at 23 to 25 knts steady. My wife was like "Why do you have to push it all the time? I was just wanting to chill and have some cheese crackers and wine and you're putting the toe rail in the water!" We dropped the main again and headed home.

I've got to tell you, the convenience factor of roller furling certainly compensates for the performance hit. It's so nice to be able to reduce sail quickly when things get jiggy especially when you're out there just with your wife and three year old and even nicer to be able to drop and cover the main, roll up the head sail and be done by the time we hit the dock.

So yeah, we stayed on the boat from Friday through Sunday and had some great sailing this weekend. Hope some of you guys did as well.


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey - nothing wrong with cheese and crackers sometimes. Nice sail dude.


----------



## St Anna

smackdaddy said:


> Hey - nothing wrong with cheese and crackers sometimes. Nice sail dude.


My God, its Wallace and Grommet.


----------



## smackdaddy

Ooo...wensleydale...


----------



## smackdaddy

Man - it's great to find these 8 year old threads with really cool stuff in them! I think RobG is still around...and I for one would definitely like to be "bored" by your heavy air stories!

Like I said poreviously in this thread - I've seen 50 knots only once on my boat - and I was in the slip. Freakin' scary.

Where were you when you were hit?



RobGallagher said:


> I have been sailing for 2 years, this being the first full season with my C&C.
> 
> I don''t know who is more thick, me or NOAA but I am just now learning to add 10 knots of wind and 2 feet of sea to their forcast.
> 
> I won''t bore you with heavy air stories that only I think are comical, but I will say that my boat has on at least 4 occasions this year stood up well to winds over 40 knots and seas of up to 9 feet. Also, my boat has been sailing WAY longer than I have so I think it is safe to assume it has seen heavy air before.
> 
> I have seen on one breezy afternoon under double reef and no head sail, my wind speed indicator reach 50 (yes fifty) knots. And yes I have 3 witnesses. The only flexing was my butt clenching as myself and 3 other sailors decided to get in an early sail before a storm was due to hit. Yes, that is a stupid thing to do but I never claimed to be the brightest bulb on the xmass tree.
> 
> 4 guys standing around the boatyard bullshiting because NOAA says don''t go out today can be a bad combination.
> 
> Did I say I wasn''t going to bore you?


----------



## johnshasteen

smackdaddy said:


> Man - it's great to find these 8 year old threads with really cool stuff in them! I think RobG is still around...and I for one would definitely like to be "bored" by your heavy air stories!
> Like I said poreviously in this thread - I've seen 50 knots only once on my boat - and I was in the slip. Freakin' scary.
> 
> Where were you when you were hit?


=

This is interesting post, but I have two observations: 40+ knots of wind will typically drive seas greater than 9-feet (sustained 40 knot winds over open water, will produce seas more in the 15-20 foot range) and 50 knots of wind on a wind intrument may be more or less than 50 depending on whether you are running before the storm or beating into it, as your boat speed over the bottom is not considered by the wind instrument. On the other hand, sitting in the slip, 50 knots of wind on your wind instrument is quite accurate.


----------



## MazeRat7

Well, I wasn't going to say anything since this post belongs in BSS (Big Stoopid Sails), but since Smack and I sail the same waters, I figured I might as well tell on myself.

Last Sunday, I helped another sailor friend hoist a newly stitched genoa and then we went for a sail. He took off in his C28 MKII and I in my new boat (C36 Tall) I've only had sailing 3 times before and never without crew (not including the admiral).

I was a bit worried as the winds when we left the marina were about 15k WNW but figured I would give it a go with just the admiral and I. I gave the adminral the helm and right after getting the main and genoa up the winds started building. Initially on a broad reach we were clocking about 6-7k over ground.

About the time we turned up to a close reach, the wind started really picking up. I had the admiral calling out true wind and direction while I trimmed sails. I remember her saying 24, 28, 32, 34, 38...... 40. YIKES!!!!! At this point the rails were in the water and my friend on is C28 was in similar shape.

So I made the choice to bail, turn directly into the wind, and start reducing sail area.
Certainly we got home in one piece but blasting down a narrow river channel at 7+k with the rails in the water on only your 4th time out on the boat.... that is not for me. Not yet anyway. 

So smack, while you may have seen 50 in your marina over Christmas, I was out last Sunday in 40k gusts and I damn near wet my pants.

Sincerely,
your resident dumb a**

Maze


----------



## Faster

MazeRat7 said:


> Well, I wasn't going to say anything since this post belongs in BSS (Big Stoopid Sails), but since Smack and I sail the same waters, I figured I might as well tell on myself........
> 
> .......So smack, while you may have seen 50 in your marina over Christmas, I was out last Sunday in 40k gusts and I damn near wet my pants.
> 
> Sincerely,
> your resident dumb a**
> 
> Maze


But you survived to tell the tale, and your threshold just got bumped up a bit.. no worries! Nothing broke, nobody's hurt - I trust you didn't hit the dock?

btw... did you consider another renaming ceremony after that?


----------



## smackdaddy

Faster's exactly right. You just bumped up your threshold Maze. Nice.

Now, I was actually (yet again) in my slip on that very day! This is getting embarrassing.

We tried to leave just about 2:00 when the winds you mention were beginning to howl. They have moved our particular dock back into the cove (which is nice as we no longer are getting hammered by the waves), but there is a huge freakin' steel cable hanging 6' above the water 15' from from our slip. And that cable was downwind - and we were beam to that wind which was blowing uninterrupted right on us.

With a lot of work, we backed the boat into the slip and I tried the old trick of having my sailing buddy stand on the end of the finger and pull the bow into the wind with a line while I punched the OB - but it was clear we were going to be blown straight into that cable - possibly losing a rig. So I shut her down and we drank - and pouted. We were stuck.

Yet again, the Big Freakin' Slipsitter while you, my man, were out learning how to handle your boat safely (very successfully I might add) in big wind.

That ain't stoopid.

I've had sails up in 40knots one time (double reefed main only) with the whole boat shuddering - and I did the same thing you did - dropped it and motored home. There's a pic of it buried in here somewhere. But I learned something about my boat. And that's great practical knowledge to have.

Nice BFS dude. And to think some dudes RACE in that stuff - in the ocean - with actual waves and everything - yowza!

Sincerely,

The Other resident dumb a**



MazeRat7 said:


> Well, I wasn't going to say anything since this post belongs in BSS (Big Stoopid Sails), but since Smack and I sail the same waters, I figured I might as well tell on myself.
> 
> Last Sunday, I helped another sailor friend hoist a newly stitched genoa and then we went for a sail. He took off in his C28 MKII and I in my new boat (C36 Tall) I've only had sailing 3 times before and never without crew (not including the admiral).
> 
> I was a bit worried as the winds when we left the marina were about 15k WNW but figured I would give it a go with just the admiral and I. I gave the adminral the helm and right after getting the main and genoa up the winds started building. Initially on a broad reach we were clocking about 6-7k over ground.
> 
> About the time we turned up to a close reach, the wind started really picking up. I had the admiral calling out true wind and direction while I trimmed sails. I remember her saying 24, 28, 32, 34, 38...... 40. YIKES!!!!! At this point the rails were in the water and my friend on is C28 was in similar shape.
> 
> So I made the choice to bail, turn directly into the wind, and start reducing sail area.
> Certainly we got home in one piece but blasting down a narrow river channel at 7+k with the rails in the water on only your 4th time out on the boat.... that is not for me. Not yet anyway.
> 
> So smack, while you may have seen 50 in your marina over Christmas, I was out last Sunday in 40k gusts and I damn near wet my pants.
> 
> Sincerely,
> your resident dumb a**
> 
> Maze


----------



## smackdaddy

SWEET day on the water today. 15-20 with gusts to 25. Just about perfect:










Some regatta was going down with lots of spinnakers and shouting. And I kept wondering why those dudes weren't just screaming past us in their mylar-sailed J-boats. Yeah they passed us, but it took them an embarrassingly long time. And they had spins flying!










My two sons also learned alot about sailing today as well. The BFSd 6YO:










And the soon-to-be-skippering 9yo:










Punks.


----------



## GeorgeB

*Three Bridge Fiasco!*

Out here on the last Saturday of January, we, in , do a quaint little race called the "Three Bridge Fiasco". Quite simple. Cross all three bridges of the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com







San Francisco Bay</ST1







Central</st1laceName> <st1laceType w:st="on">Bay</st1laceType> (actually the Blackaller buoy at the Golden Gate, Red Rock Island at the <st1laceName w:st="on">San Rafael</st1laceName> <st1laceType w:st="on">Bridge</st1laceType> and around <st1laceName w:st="on">Treasure-Yerba</st1laceName> <st1laceName w:st="on">Buena</st1laceName> <st1laceType w:st="on">Island</st1laceType> for the <ST1<st1laceType w:st="on">Bay</st1laceType> <st1laceType w:st="on">Bridge</st1laceType></ST1). You can "round" each bridge in any order and from any direction. You can also cross the start/finish line in any direction. What can be simpler than that? Oh, buy the way, open to only single and double handed boats. So who goes out for this? Over 360 boats this year! On Friday night, we had a storm front pass through, leaving us no more than ten knots of breeze from the high filling in, and unfortunately, the full moon brought a horrific ebb for most of the day (topping out at 5.7 kts at the Gate). We did a counter clockwise strategy this year, which didn't work out too well for us, but we had a great time anyway. We had numerous close encounters like everyone else and fortunately, no fiberglass was exchanged. Now for the "Where's Waldo?" moment. Freya is somewhere in the pictures.


----------



## smackdaddy

Goerge - I wanna see this race! But something with your posting (I assume it's a cut and paste from another doc?) is whacking the code.

Can you re-try it? Or clean out the formatting if it's a cut and paste?


----------



## GeorgeB

Smack,
What part of my message is getting garbled? Text? Pictures? I've been composing in MSWord then copying over. I notice that I get "funny" symbology around some of the words (like place or hardware names) which I try to edit out. The pictures are from "Ultimate Yacht Shots". Let me know what I have to re-transmit. Here is another picture showing the mark rounding at Blackaller - You mean there's a bouy in there somewhere?


----------



## bacampbe

I don't know about Smack, but the text I see ends in mid-sentence, with "Cross all three bridges of the ". 

After that I see two pictures. That's on a Mac with Safari 4.0.4.


----------



## smackdaddy

Yeah - I'm seeing what bac's seeing. And I'm on a Mac as well.

What about you other PC goons? Are you seeing the same thing? Is it just a Word issue?

As for the pics - freakin' BEAUTIFUL dude! Wow!

Looks like a "light air" day. What were the conditions?


----------



## GeorgeB

Smack,

Don't quite understand what I did (or didn't do). Here is my original text. Winter sailing on the Bay can be so fickle. The nice, warm sunny days are indicative a high filling in after a winter storm which means light to non existant wind. We were seeing winds up to about ten knots and often much less which leads to the second problem - tidal current. The combination of the full moon influencing the tides and over a week of rain flushing through the Delta and out the Bay caused a really big ebb for most of the day. Very tough when you are fighting a 3kt current and you're only making 4 - 4.5 kts boatspeed. 360 overlapped boats causes a lot of disturbed air for a long, long ways leward of the boats. When we were the windward boat, we moved pretty well. When we were caught leeward, we got gassed. We tried to stay out of phase with the rest of the boats on the windward leg, but the run from Blackaller to Red Rock was a killer, both from getting "rolled" and by getting sucked up into Richardson Bay with the ebb current. All in all, we logged over 30 NM and left the dock in the early morning and didn't get back until after eight that night. 

Out here on the last Saturday of January, we, in San Francisco Bay, do a quaint little race called the "Three Bridge Fiasco". Quite simple. Cross all three bridges of the Bay (actually the Blackaller buoy at the Golden Gate, Red Rock Island at the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com







San Francisco Bay</ST1







Central</st1laceName> <st1laceType w:st=" /><st1laceName w:st="on">San Rafael</st1laceName> <st1laceType w:st="on">Bridge</st1laceType> and around <st1laceName w:st="on">Treasure-Yerba</st1laceName> <st1laceName w:st="on">Buena</st1laceName> <st1laceType w:st="on">Island</st1laceType> for the <ST1<st1laceType w:st="on">Bay</st1laceType> <st1laceType w:st="on">Bridge</st1laceType></ST1). You can "round" each bridge in any order and from any direction. You can also cross the start/finish line in any direction. It is a pursuit start with the highest PHRF rated boats starting at 9:30 (We were 10:10) and the speedsters at 11:30. What can be simpler than that? Oh, buy the way, open to only single and double handed boats. So who goes out for this? Over 360 boats this year! On Friday night, we had a storm front pass through, leaving us no more than ten knots of breeze from the high that was filling in, and unfortunately, the full moon brought a horrific ebb for most of the day (topping out at 5.7 kts at the Gate). We did a clockwise strategy this year, which didn't work out too well for us, but we had a great time anyway. We had numerous close encounters like everyone else and fortunately, no fiberglass was exchanged. Now for the "Where's Waldo?" moment. Freya is somewhere in the pictures.


----------



## smackdaddy

Holy crap! 360 boats???? That's amazing.

Okay I'll go look for you in those pics. Let's see, 10 knots of wind - I'll look for the C34 with a triple-reefed main and storm jib.

Heh-heh, I'm JOKING!


----------



## bacampbe

Wow, I'm trying to imagine how the special rules at a mark or finish line apply when boats are meeting head-to-head while rounding or crossing in opposite directions...


----------



## smackdaddy

I'm thinking that might be the "fiasco" part. I bet it makes the racing more interesting to watch!


----------



## twinsdad

Text and words came out fine for me.


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay George - here's my Waldo guess:


----------



## smackdaddy

Now THIS is what it's all about. Congrats Plumbean! You Easties need to take him out for a beer (the dad not the kid).



Plumbean said:


> Well, Smackdaddy was true to his word and a big old trophy showed up at the house the other day. Below is a pic with the happy recipient. What a treat -- Thanks!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Happy sailing,
> 
> Mr. Plumbean


----------



## GeorgeB

Smack,

Even though the Norlam color swatch clearly said "raspberry", our star pattern on the kite is "hot pink". Mrs. B says that our next chute is going to be a lot more colorful (and hopefully more masculine). This is a better picture as we are caught in more traffic in the other one

The start-finish line is GGYC's "X" buoy and a mark on the club house so watching the starts would be pretty fun. The race is over 20 NM so most of the time you would be looking at little tiny dots on the horizon. I think sailboat racing is much more fun for the participants than spectators

Oddly enough, this race follows the RRS. But with multiple boats overlapped at any time, little wind and big current, your primary concern and action is to fend off boats about to touch. On any given year, only about half the boats finish so this is more of a happening than a real serious race (at least for us guys racing the family station wagons). Besides, if everybody protested every perceived infraction, it would take the committee a couple of years to sort it all out.

<OLast year's offer still stands - if you ever find yourself in SF, we'll go sailing in real salt water and real wind. I think I can accommodate your desire for BFS (and actually be safe while doing it).


----------



## smackdaddy

GB, though I'm hesitant to be seen on a boat with pink sails, I will take you up on your offer...hopefully this spring or early summer.

Seriously, I'd love to crew for you. I know I'll learn a ton.


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay George - you asked for it. We are planning a climbing trip to Yosemite this summer (me, wife, 2 kids). We will make a point of scooting over to your world for a SFBFS. We're trying to figure out dates now. I'll PM you when we have the month nailed down (probably June) - so we can get this done.

I'll start looking now for a pink scop patch to match your sail.


----------



## smackdaddy

Yesterday was a great day. Sunny, temp in the 70's, winds 15-20 with higher gusts. It was definitely lively with a full main and a 150, but it was good practice. And it was fun seeing other boats on their ear. I love this damn sport!

We started scouting the GR course (I'll put up our attempt in the GR thread) - but had to bail on the first leg because it was directly upwind and we had a cockpit full of 4 adults and 2 kids. Not conducive to laser race focus.

Not a huge day, but a wet rail and a lot of fun!


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey - look what I found on YouTube...



> Approx 25 Miles Offshore in the Atlantic in route from Hilton Head Island / Port Royal Sound to Jacksonville / Mayport Inlet and the St. John's River; New Years Day 2010.







I know these guys! This is the famous 30/30/30 sail. Nice work fellas.

I'd definitely call it big. But that's just me. Nice way to kick off 2010.


----------



## smackdaddy

Man this is a great site! Here's a BFS story from 4 years ago I found while digging around some old threads.

Wow...



kimberlite said:


> Saturday
> Well they say you are hit with a huge wave one in 100,000 times.
> Tonight was the night. We were running down wind with the wind to our stern most of the day. The seas are running about 12-20 feet.
> We were finally happy to have 20-30 knots of wind in the right direction to head us towards st Martin. I felt like I was caught in the Bermuda version of ground hog day as we wasted over 36 hours trying to get away from the Bermuda area.
> 
> Charles cooked a delicious dinner of Tuscan chicken wings with sautéed spinach and carvel cake for desert. After dinner, most of us were in our bunks sleeping or reading. Jim was on watch taking extra care as our radar unit it out. I was sleeping in our aft cabin and I felt the stern of the boat drop dramatically. Then I heard a huge slam on the cabin top louder than someone hitting it with a 1000-pound sledgehammer. By then I was wide-awake and I heard Jim yell "oh ****" and the boat lay over on its side and turned abruptly.
> When I came forward, water was pouring down the stairs and the epirb had been set off as I could see its strobe light going off.
> The epirb, a satellite transmitter, goes off or can be set off in an emergency, like the boat is sinking, the water set it off. I called Judy and my mother on the sat phone to tell them that if the coast guard called, tell them that we were in no danger.
> 
> We were sailing on our 1500 square foot Gennaker in 30 + knots true about 2am. Jim said he heard a roaring coming from the stern quarter and turned around just as a wave broke over our stern and sunk the aft end of the boat and stopped us . Then due to the lack of buoyancy and the fact that the boat was virtually stopped ,a 35 footer rolled over the boat. The entire boat was under water. We were also turned sideways by the wave. Jim seeing the first wave coming and sinking our stern had the sense of mind try to close the companionway hatch. Unfortunately he didn't get it all the way closed and water came pouring down the steps into the cabin. We were also using a fresh air vent with an internal fan assembly that was open in the cockpit- so we got another 150 gallons of water coming out that pipe into the cabin. The boat quickly popped up out of the water, the wind caught the sails, the autopilot made the course correction , and we were off and running. YEAH AMEL !!! Yeah Raymarine. I was really surprised that the pilot was still working.
> 
> The cockpit drained quickly as it was full of water, but the 2- 4 inch scuppers did their job, and we started the cleanup.
> It took all six of us about 2 ½ hours to dry out all the wet bilges and
> their contents. Most handy was a hand held bilge pump for pumping out the bilge storage. As many of you know, the amel bilges are dry and are not designed to drain as they are designed to never get wet
> 
> If the companionway was closed and the air vent was closed I believe we wouldn't have had any water below. NEW RULES NOW!!
> 
> Surprisingly no cabinets, drawers ,or bilges opened and spilled their contents.
> I was also surprised that the Raymarine autopilot did not shut off or lose course.
> 
> We are all now dry, and a little salty. Showers will be good tomorrow and hopefully we will see the sun after 7 days and we can rinse out and dry a few dozen towels.
> Fair winds,
> Eric
> 
> Sunday 3am-to jerry ellstein-11/5/06 30-08n 63-48w
> as the stomach turns
> As please don't tell judy but--
> After i wrote the last note i was about to hit the sack and i noticed the carpet was wet in my cabin.
> I figured one of the ports or hatches took a hit but the bunk was dry.
> I then thought about the third hole in the hull-the rudder post.
> I opened up the starboard settee in my cabin to find gallons of greasy water.
> The force of the wave that hit us blew the grease out of the rudder stock packing and is now leaking.
> It looks like it takes a 60-75 mm wrench to tighten it. I don't have one and if I did I couldn't get to the nut with a long wrench. they must use a deep socket at the factory. I tried using a flat punch and mallet and tightened it down to a slow leak. Hopefully it won't get worse.
> I think I can change the packing (I have spare) and re grease it at sea but the sea is too violent for now.
> I will have to remove the autopilot and steering gear and steer using the factory supplied tiller so I can hopefully get to the packing nut. Meanwhile we have to sponge out the locker every 1/2 hour. Based upon the forecast we will have 25-30 kts for at least another 24 hours. Doesn't make for much rest in the aft cabin--but it's the passage not the destination that counts.--this one is a doozie.


----------



## smackdaddy

This just in...



> Giant Waves Kill Two Cruise Ship Passengers
> ACCIDENT OCCURS NEAR FRENCH MEDITERRANEAN PORT
> 
> (AP) - Greek and Cypriot officials say 26-foot waves have crashed into a cruise ship with nearly 2,000 people aboard off France, smashing glass windshields and killing two passengers. Another six people suffered minor injuries. The accident occurred near the French Mediterranean port of Marseilles as the Cypriot-owned Louis Majesty was sailing from Barcelona to Genoa with 1,350 passengers and 580 crew.
> 
> The victims were only identified as a German and an Italian man. Louis Cruise Lines spokesman Michael Maratheftis said the ship was hit by three "abnormally high" waves up to 26 feet high that broke glass windshields in the forward section. It is heading back to Barcelona.


26' waves KILLING people on a cruise ship? There has got to be more to this story.


----------



## johnshasteen

smackdaddy said:


> This just in
> 26' waves KILLING people on a cruise ship? There has got to be more to this story.


I'm with you Steve, I've sailed Paloma in bigger seas than that and we didn't have those 30-foot waves crashing into the boat - if we did, I wouldn't be here to tell about it.


----------



## bubb2

smackdaddy said:


> Hey - look what I found on YouTube...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know these guys! This is the famous 30/30/30 sail. Nice work fellas.
> 
> I'd definitely call it big. But that's just me. Nice way to kick off 2010.


YA, That was the watch that broke the traveler. I was behind the helm all night the night before. No videos taken at night, and i was sleeping when the "boys" were playing with the video camera. The thing is the temps were in the mid 30's then and we were getting gusts 30 and over! The boat was moving along in the high 8's and low 9's. Not bad for a Catalina 30.


----------



## smackdaddy

What sail configuration were you guys using in that stuff Bubb? It's hard to tell from the video.

And what was Hog doing to break traveller? Never mind. I don't want to know.


----------



## smackdaddy

johnshasteen said:


> I'm with you Steve, I've sailed Paloma in bigger seas than that and we didn't have those 30-foot waves crashing into the boat - if we did, I wouldn't be here to tell about it.


John, I just saw a snippet of video on CNN where the waves blast through the glass.

It looks like it was just bad design on the ship, and a bad call to let people be hanging out there in rough seas.


----------



## bubb2

smackdaddy said:


> What sail configuration were you guys using in that stuff Bubb? It's hard to tell from the video.
> 
> And what was Hog doing to break traveller? Never mind. I don't want to know.


We were broad-reaching with the jib and the full main up.


----------



## mackconsult

Thank goodness this was not me :laugher .


----------



## mackconsult

I am doing the Oregon Offshore on Rage this year.


----------



## smackdaddy

mackconsult said:


> Thank goodness this was not me :laugher .


HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!

Mack! What the hell happened with that thing?????

Your upcoming ride, Rage, looks very nice, dude. What is the course for the OOS?


----------



## mackconsult

That laser and his supposed helmsman were racing over in Europe last week. I guess a pretty good 30 knot gust came threw and some one was there at the right time and place to catch that shot.

Oregon Offshore (100 mile race) starts out at bouy 2 just out side the Columbia River entrance. Usually its a beat up the coast, then go around Straits of the Juan De Fuaca bouy for a spinnaker run down into Victoria. Last year was my record run on Riva a J-46 at 29 hrs.

riva

That attached plot is from 2006 when I did this race on a Mumm 30, red was rhumbline, the other line was our course. It was cold and wet, like most typical offshore races here in the PNW. This will be my 16th offshore I think.



smackdaddy said:


> HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!
> 
> Mack! What the hell happened with that thing?????
> 
> Your upcoming ride, Rage, looks very nice, dude. What is the course for the OOS?


----------



## smackdaddy

I have absolutely no connection to the makers of this life raft. i just ran across the story about these 4 dudes who rode out 190 knot winds and 35' seas in the thing.

Pretty freakin' impressive if you ask me. Check it...

*Four Men Survive Hurricane Allen in a Givens Buoy Raft*


----------



## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> I have absolutely no connection to the makers of this life raft. i just ran across the story about these 4 dudes who rode out 190 knot winds and 35' seas in the thing.
> 
> Pretty freakin' impressive if you ask me. Check it...
> 
> *Four Men Survive Hurricane Allen in a Givens Buoy Raft*


Impressive yes, but then again you NEVER hear the stories of those rafts that fail in some way....

BTW, I think we should caption the laser picture.

"Honey, do you think we should put a reef in?"
"Hey, lets put up the spinnaker." 
"Hey captain, what are the signs of an impending jybe?"

MedSailor


----------



## smackdaddy

How about this...


----------



## CharlieCobra

I'd call that a spinout. I've done that on the V-21 but I didn't catch near as much air...


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## smackdaddy

Hey - I just noticed the BFS thread has more views than the "Jokes of the day..." thread in Off Topic. Now I _know_ this whole big sailing thing is legit.

If we could just catch that pesky "Song Chain" thread through more wild-eyed sailing stories!

C'mon fellas! Shovel that snow off yer decks and go sailing!


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## PCP777

Hey guys. So Sunday the 28th we were racing in about 20 knot wind. Damaged my traveler and actually shipped water over my coaming into the cockpit. Took 3rd place overall and the traveler is fixed. (Although I think I bent it too.)

Saturday on my friend's C-27 we actually did it again, shipped water over the coaming into the cockpit, got the jib sheet winches wet. Took 2nd place in our class. 

Guess we might have had a bit too much sail up??? Nah!


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## Ajax_MD

Although I don't consider it BFS, Smack asked me to tell my story so here it is:

After getting 3 winter day sails under my belt, I decided it was time to show the wife where all the the money went. So on a Saturday in early March, I satisfied the pre-sail checklist, and for the first time ever, had a brief argument with the outboard, and then we departed with 4 souls onboard.

15-20 minutes later, we put the bow into a 10 kt wind and I raised the sails. All text-book so far. After 10 minutes of sailing, the wind simply died. I shook out the reef in disappointment.

I floundered around for a bit in the weak breeze watching the water settle into bumpy glass. I noticed 3 sailboats behind me also flailing around, getting nowhere. After a bit, they fired their engines and glided past me. I muttered something about "f-ing cheaters".

A weak breeze from the NE came in fits and starts pushing us a little further into the Chesapeake, and south for a time.

Just as I'd decided to give up and motor home, the wind changed direction to NW, and built over 5 minutes to 15kts or so. Whatever it was, it was stiff.

We zipped north, flying through flat water that hadn't had a chance to build waves yet to the river entrance bouy. The crew was cold, so I sent them below to warm up with the heater, and I decided that this would be a great time to learn to single hand. Judging by all the chatter and cackling I heard from below, they seemed to be warming up and relaxing nicely

I rounded the bouy and headed due west, steering the "sweet spot" that kept my jib tell-tales flying level. A moment later a gust heeled the boat over a bit, nothing crazy but I called below for everyone to hold on as I corrected with the tiller.

A while later, we arrived at the Whitemarsh Creek entrance which was dead into the wind. The channel is a little skinny to tack so we dropped the sails and motored the last leg back. The sun was below the horizon so I burned the nav lights. We made a perfect, stern-first docking just as everything went black.

Being alone in the cockpit during that blow was heaven. For a brief time, I was master of my vessel and master of the elements. (Don't worry, I know it's just an illusion)

As an aside, the next day my wife told me that she was facing the leeward port, watching the water flow by when that gust hit. She said that all of a sudden, "the sky disappeared, and the water was very close to the window!" Kind of a "Hello!" moment for her. I informed her that the solution is to look out the windward port, where all she'll see is the sky. 

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.


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## mackconsult

I have a good one.

2006 Oregon Offshore in May on a Mumm 30. 5 of us set out on Thursday to do the race and then turn around and deliver back. It was a cold beat up the coast and I think all of us got seasick. We turned the corner at neah bay and flew a chute (going as much as 15 knots at times) into Victoria. As soon as we crossed the finish line we turned the boat around and headed over to Port Angeles to drop crew off, fuel up, get ice/food.

Then off we motored head to wind pounding threw the waves in the straights of the Juan dE Fuca. We consumed almost all of our fuel getting out of the straights, (light boats are better sailing in those conditions, but only if you have crew to put on the rail). By the time we got around Neah Bay, we only had a couple of gallons of fuel, and the wind had completely died. We continued chugging down the coast, thinking we might have to head into an mid point port for fuel but still praying for some wind. 

I found a crab bouy, then another ...... I followed the crab line and ran across a 60 ft crab boat. We asked them if we could buy some diesel, they said sure. So I took the captains unopened bottle of whiskey, and taped a $20 on the outside. We threw a line over to them and on the other end tied the bottle of whiskey, and a fuel can.

The crab boat was so happy, they gave us fuel, and then offered a 30 lb cod fish. We had to decline because there is no refrigeration on a mumm 30.

An hour later 25 knot NW filled in and off we went at about 12 knots under spinnaker. It was one of the most awesome deliveries I have had going 80 miles in about 6 hours. 

The pinnacle of this delivery was getting to the Columbia River bar at around 8pm. We then found we didn't have the charts on board, so I drive the boat from red bouy to red bouy on an outgoing tide in dark under mainsail. We shined a flashlight on each bouy and used dead reckoning to go bouy to bouy. The south side of the jetty is where one wants to be till you get inside then you switch over to the green bouys to avoid the shoals on the south side.

Skipper said he almost had a heart attack ...... but we where fine.


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## smackdaddy

BubbleheadMd said:


> Being alone in the cockpit during that blow was heaven. For a brief time, I was master of my vessel and master of the elements. (Don't worry, I know it's just an illusion)


That right there is what it's all about as far as I'm concerned. You're a new sailor and you got that rush. Now go back and look at Bubb's 9 knot sail and how excited he was about it. Without doubt, he's a salt - and he still gets that BFS rush.

That feeling never, ever gets old. That's sailing.

Definitely BFS dude. Congrats.


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## smackdaddy

Great BFS mack! Whiskey, spins, Jacksons, cod, and heart attacks - what could be better!


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## mackconsult

Give me some time ...... I have lots of good stories in my 34 years on the water  .



smackdaddy said:


> Great BFS mack! Whiskey, spins, Jacksons, cod, and heart attacks - what could be better!


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## smackdaddy

mackconsult said:


> Give me some time ...... I have lots of good stories in my 34 years on the water  .


Sweet! That's what this thread is all about!


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## PCP777

Smack, ever ship water into your cockpit on your C 27?


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## smackdaddy

PCP777 said:


> Smack, ever ship water into your cockpit on your C 27?


Not water really. Just pee when I get hit with 30 knots with too much sail up and I'm crying in the fetal position on the sole. Shipped that plenty of times.

Seriously, how the hell did you get over far enough for water to be coming in? Were the waves kicking up? The C27 has so much freakin' freeboard I am honestly impressed with your watery prowess.


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## SiXeVeN

*BFS??? not quite but still fastest i've been!*

Smack asked me to repost this so here it goes....

Hey all,

Some may recall that I have been rebuilding a Stiletto over the last 7 months. Well, after countless hours and more money than I even want to consider, she went into the drink 2 weekends ago.

This past weekend I took her out for her first sailing voyage.

The day started with 10-15 kt winds. Perfect weather. Just because she was just rerigged and fresh on the water I ran a heavily reefed Calvert main and a storm jib.... I wanted to bring the stress into the rig slowly and not just throw a full roach main and spinny in the air first day out.

Took a bit to figure her out...she is my first multihull! But once I did!!!
G*D D*MN!!!!

In 15 kt winds I was averaging 12 kts!!! As the afternoon winds built we started to have some serious gusts build. The local weather bouy recorded 37 MPH! I didn't get a GPS speed reading but I estimate 18-20 kts under sail. I had rooster tails off my rudders! I passed a fishing flats boat under motor power... he tried to throttle up BUT I STILL OUT PACED him!!! Remember those rules of the road questions that would ask about a sailboat under sail passing a motorboat under power and who had the right of way?? Remember how the answer stated something like blah blah HOWEVER UNLIKELY blah blah the sailboat gives way. Well maybe not that unlikely!

So much for not stressing the boat I can't believe all the speed with such heavily reefed sail area. I can't imagine what I could have achieved with full sail area in play. BTW, I came in when I noticed the leeward shrouds were getting sloppy... she has a fresh rig and the cables are still stretching and setting. Had to re-tension her later.

Did notice a few negatives... She does NOT want to go through the wind. I had to jibe for ALL direction changes. The force of the water on the rudders at that speed was amazing. It took some serious elbow grease to make major course changes. Keeping her in the wind to drop sails was a major PITA. Without the usual monohull mass, the Stiletto turns off from the wind almost instantly once you leave the helm to work the sails. It takes almost NO SAIL AREA for this boat to start to seriously move so you end up with a Main halfway down and flopping around and a boat now moving a 7+ kts... I got to get some crew or an autopilot... It's a real handful.

Anyway, thought you guys might enjoy the tale. The darkside is indeed powerful!


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## smackdaddy

You spent 7 months rebuilding that bad boy and pulled down 18 KNOTS or so - blowing away a stinkpot in the process???? WHILE REEFED????

DEFINITELY BFS!!


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## smackdaddy

Great BFS story from Doslocos in the "Knock Down" thread:



doslocos said:


> I have heard it said that anyone with any time on the Ocean has experienced a knockdown. I am not quite sure that is true but I can relay my experiences. "Tonic" you might want to read what I relay here, and you so far have been quite fortunate. I was transiting from Roatan Honduras to The Flats at Cristobal in Panama. As the trades are a constant 15 knots coming from the East going West and you are trying to go the opposite, this transit is rather difficult. Columbus spent 3 months attempting the same trip and when finally rounging the tip of Honduras he named the cape there, Cabo a Gracious De Dios. Roughly translated, thank God cape. The way to make this transit is to wait for a winter storm front to pass by and then run as fast as you can East following the front. It is a cold, wet, miserable trip. What happens is the winds shift from North East to North West and thus you are almost on a broad reach. My trip went as well as could be expected until I rounded Cabo a Gracious De Dios. The wind then decided to also round around and now I was on a broad reach all the way south to Panama with shore on one side, Reef on the other side and waves on my Port quarter. I took two knock downs by waves taller than my mast. I lost several pieces of equipment including my tri light which was some 38' above the deck. As I limped into the flats the local net came up and the weather man apologized for not reporting a major storm in the Western Caribbean over the past two days. He advised not transiting but staying put. You can imagine my response. It had a reference to Sherlock in it. As for preparation, I never went off shore with my hatched not battened and the hatch boards in place. I had a lock on my companion way hatch so it would not open unintentionally. Everything inside was stowed except what I needed for the transit at hand. I had two GPS's. One deck mounted inside the boat and one hand held outside the boat. I always checked one against the other and in the case of a discrepancy I referred to paper chart. I also have some 30 years of navigation skills thus have developed that inborn sense of long exposure and skill. Repairs to my boat took approximately 1 week. I also always wore a life vest with harness which was attached by tether to hard points in the cockpit. The Life vest I chose was an inflatable (manual). I choose a manual inflatable as I always wondered if an automatic might go off by itself at just the wrong moment. I found others to be to bulky and in and of themselves dangerous. I single handed a 30' boat with 6 berths thus I carried 6 kapok life jackets which were always within reach. I also had a hard dodger which slowed the boat because of wind resistance but kept me from getting washed overboard several times. Could I have kept from being knocked down? Probably not. Was I prepared? Yes.


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## smackdaddy

Wow - look what i just found! A video of a *Macgregor 26* pulling down a serious BFS!

The greatest part is that it was filmed in April by Macgregor himself from his M72. Big wind, big seas, and a very interesting commentary...


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## GeorgeB

No BFS, just a photo. Weather is pretty snotty today in San Francisco. Thought I brighten up the day with a photo from my PacCup race in '08. Yours truly surfing along in the low teens in a Nordic 44. California is just a little over a thousand miles beyond the horizon.


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## smackdaddy

Dude - you are livin' the life! That's freakin' beautiful.


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## GeorgeB

Long week slaving away in the silicon mines. I get a call at noon today from the Doublehanded Lightship race committee telling me that the USCG will require a 406 MHz EPRIB for tomorrow's race. My crewmate is making the mad scramble to his storage locker to find the one we used in the PacCup. Made a quick search on the internet. New ones mucho expensive! Quick call to Mrs. B. She's not happy, would rather the money be put towards a 42. Oh brother! I need a vacation! Wait, maybe I can put myself back into that happy place.











Ahhh, there's that happy place. Same race, different day and different board. San Francisco to Kaneohe is 2,200 NM of driving nirvana!


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## blackjenner

*MY BFS experience in the Opalko*

Picasa Web Albums - donn.christianson - Opalko and Sa...

The Opalko was a "free" boat. I got it from my friend John in exchange for pressure washing his house and clearing his back yard of blackberry vines. When we went to get the San Juan 21 at the storage yard, it had three feet of water in it. *In* it. Fortunately, the inside of the boat is all glass and all the cushions and sails were in his nice dry garage. It took us an hour to empty the boat and get it ready to tow.

I spent two months cleaning it up, painting it, installing a bulkhead compass, a battery for the lights, etc. The sails were old but in good condition. I had a main, a jib and a 150%.

Though the San Juan 21 is basically a class racer, I outfitted her for cruising and day sailing fun. In order to single hand her I added weight to the boat. While the centerboard is 400lbs, with just me aboard, I could not keep her stable in heavier winds. So I built two wooden boxes that fit next to the centerboard trunk and placed 200lbs of barbell weights (four 50lb disks) in them. This firmed the boat right up. I could now easily single hand her in almost any wind without having to point to depower or reef too early.

My BFS story?

Aside from many a windy day with the rail near the water on close reaches and actually getting the 21 foot thing to surf and sometimes plane on broad reaches with large sail out, my hardest trip was the end of a four day sail around Lake Washington and the Puget Sound. The September weekend was forecast as overcast and windy.

I launched at Bellevue Marina and headed west, putting the sails up as soon as I could and headed for Lake Union. After making my way close to the cut and dropping sail, I motored through the cut, making my way to single hand it through the small locks and then to Shilshole. I spent the day sailing across the sound and back in 15-20kt winds, with the big dingy flying along. I think the waves were four to five feet at times. With the added ballast the tenderness was gone. She was steady but still fast on the water.

Spending the night in Shilshole, I returned the next day, crashing along south to Elliott Bay and past the city of Seattle. The winds were from the south west again and closer just over 20 kts. I reefed a little and let her surf back north on a broad reach, almost jumping waves. It was a blast.

At times I was quite glad that I had a PFD, harness and safety line attached to the cockpit. The boat was really flying along.

I made my way back through the locks (the big one this time) and spent the night in Lake Union under dark and stormy skies.

Weather reports called for periods of heavy rain and continued winds gusting above 20-25. The sailing was basically done for the trip as I motored along the cut back to Lake Washington. I couldn't help myself though and had to at least hoist the reefed main when I hit the lake. I wanted to sail back from the mouth of the cut to Bellevue. I didn't want to end my trip on the Johnson outboard.

So, the winds continued to blow and, in a reach, I once again jumped waves and contended with gusty conditions. The sky was black as hell and the spray was coming completely over the boat. I had the cabin hatches completely closed and I was definitely tied in with the safety line.

Then I got something the weather reports didn't call for and doesn't happen often. The low booming started in the distance and became louder and more oppressive as I was exactly dead center in the lake.

The first lightning bolts started falling, hitting Mercer Island in front of me and Mt. Baker behind me. There was *no* interval between the flash and the boom. The lighting storm was right there, right above me, along with the wind and the waves, which were worse in the lake because they were bouncing off Mercer Island. I think, to this day, I was in six footers, sometimes a little larger.

Screw sailing...It was getting too dangerous. I dropped the main and fired up the Johnson, which thankfully was larger than the boat needed and would give me a couple more knots of speed with the semi-planing hull. It pushed me pretty fast as I skirted under the lightning storms. There was nowhere to go except onward.

As I made it into the harbor with my floating lighting rod I tied up at the dock and got away from the boat. As I rested inside my truck, I watched lightning bolt after lightning bolt hit the lake, all across my previous path of sail. It continued for the next thirty minutes.

And that was the end of my BFS four day weekend on the Opalko.

I sold that boat a year later to buy some *land*. Idiot.

Now I'm selling my home to boy a boat again.


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## CharlieCobra

Lightning in a little boat ain't no kinda fun. Been there, done that, with marble sized hail to go with it. That stuff stings....


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## smackdaddy

Found this link through another site. Very nutty sailing on a tri in 50-70knots. Looks pretty stable actually...

Videos Posted by Oman Sail: Majan Rides the Hurricane (Reloaded) [HQ] | Facebook


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## PeterSailer

I'm 18 year old so I still live with my parents,
My dad own a Cal 34 and I own a nordica 16

My BFS (nordica 16) 

It was a nice Sunny day.
There was a small craft warning. Almost nobody was going out because it was blowing to hard.I was preparing my boat (reefing the main, starting the 2 HP motor...)when "Charlie" came out his sailboat and ask me if I was really going out alone, and that he was going to go but he change his mind because it was a little too windy for him.

He help me to leave the dock and I motored out the small channel of the marina. I raised the main sail wich was reefed, and when I tried to raise the jib,the wind caught it and twist it. (I only have a wirer luff on my nordica's jib) In the same time the wind caught the main sail, (the main sheet was tight) next thing I know the rail is in the water so I picked up the jib from the water and started sailing around with main only. It was a blast! The only thing is that I couldn't tack because the nordica is a full keel and I didn't had the jib to push to bow trough the wind so I could only jib. I had no problem going back in.

My father and I BFS ( Cal 34)

One day, one of my father's friend call and ask if we were up for a nice sail.
There was a smal craft warning and it was quite chopy.

Off we whent on our Cal 34.
we had a reef and a small jib(almost storm jib). The wave were maybe 5-6 feet high and there was a lot of spray. It was so nice going up and down these waves... Sometime we had the rail in the water and we had to play with the sheet cause my mother was getting nervous.(she's a none swimer) 

I had to go on the front deck to secure the anchor, While I was there a wave hit the side of the boat and sent so much spray my dad couln't se me anymore...I was soked N wet... But I loved it!! It was a really nice sail!!


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## smackdaddy

Hey Peter - welcome dude! And VERY NICE BFS!!!!!!!


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## PeterSailer

> Hey Peter - welcome dude! And VERY NICE BFS!!!!!!


Thanks

I don't know wy I waited so long before I joined Sail Net


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## WhatTheFoley

Been following this thread for a while, and waiting to go out for a BFS of my own. While this weekend's sail wasn’t terribly exciting, there was sufficient wind to increase the pucker-factor a bit 

The highlights were working close-hauled with a single reef and a 130% headsail in 20knots of breeze gusting to 25. Had a blast ripping through the small chop at 6-7knots. After the front left us, we shook out the reef. Another front came in about an hour or so later, and we surfed along downwind in 20-25knots wing on wing... 

Nothing tooo exciting, but it made for a FAST and FUN trip!


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## smackdaddy

Dude! WTF?!?!?!? (I love being able to type that and have it be an actual greeting and salutation WhatTheFoley).

Definitely BFS in my book. FAST+FUN=BFS. Every time.

Very cool!

(PS - Are you a sound designer? The Foley thing has me wondering.)


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## blt2ski

Does a 2nd place overall in winds less than 5 knots for 3 of 4 races with placings of 3rd, 1st, 5th (throwout) and a second, beating boat for boat all but one count? I was smallest of 8 boat, from 29' to 44', 2nd slowest handicap, slowest by 10 sec or there abouts was a Cat30,, they did great in sundays 2 races with a 2 1sts to break the saturday tie I had with the boat I could not beat B2B. That was also the fastest boat too! ie 90sec mile faster.

marty


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## rotrax

*Bfs*

Hi Guys,been reading the BFS thread.There has been some exiting times!My winter talks sailing club has had some exellent speakers over the past years including one guy who circumnavigated the U.K. in a lightweight Danish built trimaran.Towards the end of his trip he was entering Falmouth and called the harbourmaster for assistance in berthing as he was single handed.He had 30kts plus dead aft.The harbourmaster censured him for exeeding the 10kts speed limit in the harbour.The skipper replied that he was under bare poles and was towing two buckets! His speed under these conditions was up to 15kts.Must have been a bit hairy.Best Regards Rotrax.


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## blt2ski

rotrax,

That is a good one!LOL


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## messer999

Smack

Or it could just be a Foley catheter guy


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## smackdaddy

messer999 said:


> Smack
> 
> Or it could just be a Foley catheter guy


Ooooo...that's a whole different matter.


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## zz4gta

Went out for a frostbite race this past saturday and was greeted with wind well over 20 kts and gusting higher. Had a ride on a PHRF boat, went ok, fun boat. Back at the clubhouse overheard an owner of an Antrim 27 was going to do a 7 mile delivery back to his dock. I offered to help. 

So there's 3 of us on a boat that likes to have 7 to go upwind. Flogging around Solomons island MD wasn't that fun. Being able to stand straight up on the foot holds in the floor was a new experience. Boom was 4" from the water. That was the "calm" part. We rounded the island and headed up river for the bridge gybing all the way doing 8-11 kts of boat speed. The two other guys said that it may get a little "sporty" under the bridge as the wind funnels through there and increases in strength. 

It did, and a blast of 30 kts tried to round us up into one of the concrete supports. The big roach of the main was folded over the back of the rig trying to bleed off some breeze when the bow came out of the water and the boat planned to 15 kts under main alone. I'm sure the folks at the clubhouse got a show, and thought we were a little nuts. 

It was a fun ride and average speed was around 11 kts over a mile. Even when we turned into his creek we got gusts of low 20's. I told him, I really need to get myself one of those boats.


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## smackdaddy

zz4gta said:


> The two other guys said that it may get a little "sporty" under the bridge as the wind funnels through there and increases in strength.


Sporty. Those are my kind of guys.


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## WhatTheFoley

Nothing to do with sound or catheters. Happens to be my last name... WTF are my initials… makes tax time lots of fun… initial here, and here and here… WTF… WTF… WTF! 

Nice going Marty, Sorry I wasnt able to join you! Sounds like you guys did GREAT!


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## blt2ski

Wayne,

We did pretty good all things considering. Let me know where you are for two weekends from now, two races that weekend, assuming I can get the boat out for various and sundry reasons.

marty


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## SW329xl

Warning the following post contains stunts performed by intoxicated dumb teenagers. They should not be attempted by anybody, professional or not, under any circumstances. 


Back when I was 16, I had a laser which I sailed on the Hudson river. My friend and I had decided we were going to cut school and go sailing. We of course packed all the essentials:
mini cooler
ice
orange juice
vodka
cigarettes

We launched at Peekskill as a stiff NW wind was building. Of course being really shortsighted, we decided to head south first on a broad reach in order to provide a more favorable heel for drink mixing. We made it as far as Croton before the vodka ran out, needless to say it was a heck of a ride down with the laser on a plane the whole way even with the weight of two people, and of course our provisions. The slog back up was significantly less fun, and exceedingly wet. Somehow we managed to keep the boat on it's feet the entire trip. Looking back now, I am not sure how, but we did.


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## smackdaddy

Screwdrivers and smokes: Essential equipment in every toolkit/ditchbag.

And, hey, as long as no IDTs were harmed during the execution of said BFS...nice sailing dude!


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## SW329xl

smackdaddy said:


> Screwdrivers and smokes: Essential equipment in every toolkit/ditchbag.
> 
> And, hey, as long as no IDTs were harmed during the execution of said BFS...nice sailing dude!


It was a heck of a lot of fun, and thankfully no injuries. It would have been nice if they had these cool life rafts back then, just in case.

Sports Stuff Medium 60Qt Floating Cooler - Backyard - Pool Supplies


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## twinsdad

I hate to throw a wet blanket on all of this, but I don't think I can celebrate sailing anywhere, let alone a busy waterway, drunk. Drinking after the sail is a whole different story. In fairness, you did warn at the beginning that this was a story of dumb intoxicated teenagers. So long as we keep that in mind, certainly glad that no one was hurt.


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## Ajax_MD

Thank you Citizen Safety Patrol.


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## Sailormon6

A couple years ago, I was sailing my C&C 35 Landfall singlehanded south from Annapolis, 2-3 miles off the western shore, with about 20-25 kt winds out of the west. Because the fetch was only 2-3 miles, the waves were nominal for that much wind. I don't remember the exact sail configuration, but probably tucked in a single reef and rolled up a little genoa. I put her on a beam reach and trimmed the sails for speed and balance, and then set the autopilot. Her speed was steadily 8 1/2 kts, with bursts over 9 kts. I looked over the side, and the bow wave no longer extended out from the bow of the boat. It had moved aft all the way back to the primary winches. This was not a brief burst of speed, while she slid down the face of a wave. She maintained that speed without a break for nearly three hours before she finally dipped below her hull speed. For my part, I didn't have to constantly tend her sails to keep them in perfect trim. All I had to do was sit back and enjoy the ride, and make sure she didn't run into anything. I have sailed in stronger winds and bigger seas, but can't adequately describe how exhilarating it is to sail for so long in conditions so perfect for optimum speed. Sometimes the best ride isn't the one that scares you to death; it's the one that thrills you to death!


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## WhatTheFoley

Sailormon6 said:


> I have sailed in stronger winds and bigger seas, but can't adequately describe how exhilarating it is to sail for so long in conditions so perfect for optimum speed. Sometimes the best ride isn't the one that scares you to death; it's the one that thrills you to death!


Right On! Went out last night, in 10-15knts. Can't tell you how cool it is to trim up, take your hand off the tiller and watch the boat drive itself at speed without touching a thing.


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## smackdaddy

Sailormon6 said:


> I have sailed in stronger winds and bigger seas, but can't adequately describe how exhilarating it is to sail for so long in conditions so perfect for optimum speed. Sometimes the best ride isn't the one that scares you to death; it's the one that thrills you to death!


I think you nailed BFS Sailormon. That's exactly the way I see it. It's the thrill - not the fear - of sailing.

As I said on page one, your fear and my fear are completely different things. As I'm a lake sailor that has only been at it a couple of years, I still get scared at stuff you'd laugh at. But I ALWAYS get that thrill of sailing through those conditions successfully...and even a bigger thrill when I'm going FAST while doing it.

Fear didn't draw me to sailing. The thrill of it did. That's what BFS celebrates. And that's what I'll always be pursuing.


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## blt2ski

ANY day sailing, is better than the best day working!


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## smackdaddy

Well it was very short and very sweet, but it was BFS. And though I sucked as a sailor, I had fun and learned a couple of things.

My wife and I went out yesterday for an evening sail...hoping to hop on the GR course for a run. It was the first time she and I had sailed together without the kids. The winds were SSW at about 15 knots. It was perfect.

We motored out of the marina and hoisted the sails (main and 150), lifted the motor, and were cruising along very nicely at 6 knots. It was perfect.

We sailed toward the channel between Sometimes Islands and MDP Point and were just lining up for the start at Mark B - and BAM! A very long, sustained 30+ knot gust hit us right on the butt and pushed us over. Smackmutha was at the helm and emitted a "wooooooooooohoooooo" and a giggle (always a good sign) as we laid over at about 45 degrees and rounded up (does that qualify as a broach?). I released the jib sheet preparing to tack us away from the rocks which were now about 150 feet to leeward. Another even higher gust hit right then and we couldn't get through the wind to complete the tack. It was no longer perfect.

I went back to starboard to sheet in the genny as we came back around to at least let us edge away from the rocks (we had about 100 feet left). However, the sheet was completely in the water. My boat partner had taken the boat out over the weekend and, apparently, had taken the stop knots out of the sheets. Not sure why - but there you go. Luckily the port-side sheet was holding so I scrambled forward to pull in the clew in grab the trailing sheet. My wife did a hell of a job keeping us in irons as much as possible. 30 knots and a flailing 150 is a hell of a lot of power. I finally wrestled the bastard in and grabbed the sheet and scrambled back to the cockpit.

I wrapped the sheet around the winch and tried to get us some purchase so we could make away from the rocks. But, since the sheet was no longer in the block and because the clew was so high and far back on the 150, I couldn't really winch it in. The sheet would wrap the second I'd try to take it in. (Advice?) So I tried manhandling the sheet in to give us some punch. As if. So we've got a wildly luffing genny and WAY too much main - and we're not making any headway. In fact, we're making great leeway.

About 50 feet left. Motor time.

I let go the sheet, lifted the lazarette hatch, lowered the motor, and prayed. I had one shot at this. And anyone that knows small outboards knows that it's always a pure Hail Mary. Running through the checklist - kill switch/cord in place, one pump for a prime (not two you'll flood it), half throttle, full choke, in neutral, and...

It was just then that I noticed the sheet in the water, just about a foot from the prop. I read all those MOB stories on SN where the majority of problems occurred when the prop would foul on a line. But thinking through that and checking for lines in the water in the heat of the moment? Not as easy as it sounds - even though I promised myself that would be part of my checklist. I pulled the line out of the water and glanced up.

30 feet.

I pull....nothing....crap...pull again....

What a wonderful sound. I shoved us into gear and started slowly pushing into the wind - which had not let up yet - and away from the rocks. My wife noticed that the temperature had dropped a few degrees - which explained the wind. I hadn't noticed anything.

I ran forward and doused the genny. Luckily the flogging didn't rip anything. I then doused the main and got back in the cockpit, breathing hard through a cotton-dry mouth. Holy crap that was close.

I told my wife that with only the genny on board, the wind so high, and sun starting to set we should probably head back in. She mocked me - told me to harden up, put a reef in the main, and sail some more. I seriously love that woman.

She was right! Here was my chance to get some more practice in and I was spooked. What a pansy.

So up went the reefed main. The wind had died a bit to around 22 or so. So we threw up the genny as well. Man that reefing thing works! We had a blast.

Another great day on the water.

Lessons learned:
1. I really need to get a 110 - and maybe even a smaller big wind sail. And I need to add a second reef point in the main, I really want to be able to deal with 30-40 knots of wind pretty comfortably. I just can't do it right now with my configuration. Advice?

2. I need to do a much more thorough check of the boat at the dock before pushing off. The sheet thing was my fault for not catching the problem beforehand - and it really sucked.

3. I love BFS. But I love my hard-assed wife even more.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Nice one Smack. I have three reef point in the Main, Mizzen and even the Staysail on Oh Joy. I don't have smaller Jibs though but the Staysail will work then. I would suggest a reef point at 25% and one at 40-50% for your next Main and a lapper, 100% Jib or smaller. That should do ya fine on the lake in whatever conditions. Later, when ya get a blue water boat or a boat in blue water, go with three reefs in the Main and a couple of smaller Jibs in your inventory. Nothing worse than getting caught out with too much sail and no options, as shown in the Southern Straits race here in the PNW recently.


----------



## smackdaddy

Cool. Thanks Charlie. Man, I wished you could have been there. It was a hoot. I was sure we were going to blow out that 150.


----------



## CharlieCobra

We certainly did the other sail....


----------



## captbillc

smack ---- you had an exciting time! i enjoyed reading about it. i probably wont have my boat in the water till the end of may.


----------



## smackdaddy

captbillc said:


> smack ---- you had an exciting time! i enjoyed reading about it. i probably wont have my boat in the water till the end of may.


capt - that sucks. I don't mean to gloat about the killer weather down here.

In the mean time, I'm happy to risk life, limb, and ego to ensure that sailing never gets boring!


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## peptobysmol

SD, as I was reading this I thought of this while looking on Ebay yesterday. I'm relieved after reading further it couldn't be yours. :thewave:


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## smackdaddy

Heh-heh...another 30 feet and that would have been me!

If you look at the *Lake Travis GR course*, you'll see that Mark B (the southmost mark) is pretty close to the spit off of Mansfield Dam Park. So to line up that start, with a SSW breeze we were cutting it fairly close on a broad reach getting ready to gybe for the mark (sure glad we didn't get to that gybe). The broach pushed us toward that spit putting it right in our lee.

Good times.


----------



## blackjenner

peptobysmol said:


> SD, as I was reading this I thought of this while looking on Ebay yesterday. I'm relieved after reading further it couldn't be yours. :thewave:


Man, that is really sad. Is it worth it and for how much would you guys say?


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## Jeff_H

_"Man, that is really sad. Is it worth it and for how much would you guys say?"_

A boat like this could easily have a negative value meaning that you could buy a Triton in near perfect shape for what it would cost to bring this boat back to a similar condition. Of course, if you are a really tallented boat worker with access to wholesale pricing, and you like working on boats so your time is seen as recreational rather than having value, then you might be able to put the ole girl back together.

Of course, then again, if you are going to invest all that money, time and labor into a boat, it should be a really great boat, one worth saving, and a Triton was a mediocre boat in its day and its day was a very long time ago so you might want to put your efforts into a better design.

And of course, you can often build a new boat for close to what it takes in time and money to restore a wreck and you could end with a great boat.

Jeff


----------



## peptobysmol

For parts, its definitely worth it. For the trouble, no.


----------



## blackjenner

Jeff_H said:


> _"Man, that is really sad. Is it worth it and for how much would you guys say?"_
> 
> A boat like this could easily have a negative value meaning that you could buy a Triton in near perfect shape for what it would cost to bring this boat back to a similar condition. Of course, if you are a really tallented boat worker with access to wholesale pricing, and you like working on boats so your time is seen as recreational rather than having value, then you might be able to put the ole girl back together.
> 
> Of course, then again, if you are going to invest all that money, time and labor into a boat, it should be a really great boat, one worth saving, and a Triton was a mediocre boat in its day and its day was a very long time ago so you might want to put your efforts into a better design.
> 
> And of course, you can often build a new boat for close to what it takes in time and money to restore a wreck and you could end with a great boat.
> 
> Jeff


Understood. What about parting it out? Spars, engine, any instruments, etc?

I guess that was my question. I'm pretty much in agreement that the boat hull is likely not worth saving.


----------



## Faster

Disposing of the rest of it could be a) difficult to arrange and b) costly too....


----------



## blackjenner

Faster said:


> Disposing of the rest of it could be a) difficult to arrange and b) costly too....


I think of crazy and impractical things sometimes but, I wonder how long it would take to chainsaw this thing up into manageable chunks. 

I'm not actually serious.


----------



## FlyNavy

My BFS was years ago on Lake Erie...same day as the edmund Fitzgerald went down on Lake Superior. We set out from the Erie Basin Marina near Buffalo on a Hobie 16. Three guys with wet suits and a SW wind blowing steady at 40 mph all the way straight from Cleveland to Buffalo un-blocked by land. 
The boat flew, like a bat out of hell. Waves were so tall that we would lose sight of the entire city bewteen the swells. We stayed out for over an hour until the local Coast Guard came out from their near by hidy-hole in a 26 foot "patrol boat" and ordered us in.
We headed back to the ramp and while we were taking down the sails, the gale hit and our jib launched, flew all the way across the parking lot, the adjacent highway and wound up in some trees across the road. It was shreaded by the time we got it down.
This was even better than the time we took her out just after the harbour has skimmed over with ice...about 1/8 inch thick. The boat sounded like the Blue Angels coming in for a low pass as the ice shattered for yards around us as the hulls skimmed over and cut through the thin ice. Not as fast but almost as memorable a BFS.


----------



## smackdaddy

Holy crap Fly! You were out on a Hobie when the "witch of November came early"? I bet that was a little sketchy.

And the ice sailing..definitely a BFS!

Great stories dude.


----------



## blt2ski

Cutting an FRP boat up with a chain saw or cutoff saw, Give me an hour or two! Assuming everything else is out or off that is metal or equal, Then half an hour with the bobcat, remains would be in the back of my dumptruck. 

That would be a BFS or some such thing in and of itself. I seem to recall a video of an old J30 taking all of about 2 min at a refuse place to be demolished by a trackhoe or equal..........

With the right tools, no issues!

marty


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay you chuckleheads, the season is FINALLY upon us (well at least for the Easties and SuperNorthies). So, let's hear some good old BFS stories from this season!

Who's going to get the 2010 Cup?

Whether it's a race around the "Cosmic Cans" of the Global Regatta, or just a killer sail in the stink...BRING 'EM ON!


----------



## smackdaddy

Let's just say it was SMOKIN'! Great day on the Lake Travis GR course today - after flyin' a spin on a Melges 24 and hitting 17 knots on a Corsair 31. Full write up in the BFSGR thread.

15 steady, gusts to 25. Just about perfect.


----------



## blt2ski

SOunds like my day on the sound, but 18-25 with gusts to 30! Our clubs race as canceled, but we went out anyway. The race out of Seattle Yachtclub to smith island and the 2 shorter courses did go. Quite the hoot seeing drgonfly zooming by me in the mid teens going upwind, which by the way is a 40' hobie cat for all practical purposes, a -170 or some such phrf rating. We hit 9" on a down wind back with a reef and 110, 6-7 reaching!

marty


----------



## smackdaddy

I LOVE THIS STUFF! That Corsair was definitely scooting - but I'm a mono-man. No doubt. The tri was too "easy".


----------



## smackdaddy

Video from the Corsair I drove this weekend. Totally smokin'






PS - Thanks DaveK for making the video available.


----------



## GeorgeB

Welcome to the dark side, Luke Smacktalker. I see that the dark force in you is growing stronger by the day. Give in to the desire to go fast! Glad to see that you are finally coming around and are beginning to understand why "fast is fun". The Smacktanic is looking good - your trimming is coming along nicely. I sense that you may still suffer from Yoda's stretchy Sta-Set halyards. Don't let halyard creep round out your sails and rob speed from you on windy (20kt) days. Resist the light force and really, really crank on the halyard tension to get rid of those scallops around the slugs and shackles. Also, put on more outhaul to move the draft back. Read the draft stripes, trim in and go fast. Feel the force! 

I am your father, 
Darth Racer


----------



## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> Welcome to the dark side, Luke Smacktalker. I see that the dark force in you is growing stronger by the day. Give in to the desire to go fast! Glad to see that you are finally coming around and are beginning to understand why "fast is fun". The Smacktanic is looking good - your trimming is coming along nicely. I sense that you may still suffer from Yoda's stretchy Sta-Set halyards. Don't let halyard creep round out your sails and rob speed from you on windy (20kt) days. Resist the light force and really, really crank on the halyard tension to get rid of those scallops around the slugs and shackles. Also, put on more outhaul to move the draft back. Read the draft stripes, trim in and go fast. Feel the force!
> 
> I am your father,
> Darth Racer


Heh-heh. So you're the one that cut my hand off? You bastard!

I see what you mean on the halyards - and I'll work on the outhaul some more. I was too focused on the driving. And I totally should have shaken out the reef on the downhill run to the third mark. I lost some serious time on that too. My new hand will definitely help with the line work...










Yeah, this going fast thing is pretty cool. Are you going to be around late June, early July? I'm still trying to schedule a jump out to SF to sail with you. I hear those Tie Fighters are freakin' rockets!


----------



## GeorgeB

Luke Smacktalker, June 25-27 and July 9-11 look like the best weekends for the Empire. The Imperial Battle Cruiser is cruising the other weekends and we will be tied up to the Death Star at EYC for the 4th (we'll be too far buried in the raft to go sailing that weekend.) I've got no rides lined up on TIE fighters this summer, but we will have a new hyper dive for the cruiser so we should achieve hyper speed. Will Princess Leila and the two Ewoks be accompanying you?

-Darth


----------



## TimofBlindSquirrel

My BFS

My truly big freakin’ sailed happened on Lake Superior in the mid 1990’s. I sailed my new to me C&C 36 from Grand Marais, MN to my marina in Bayfield, WI. I was single handing with clear blue skies, temps in the high 70’s, light winds and flat seas. It was a short distance, about 55 miles, and did most of it on one tack. It was one of those perfect days.

When I was tying up in my marina a sailor 25 years my senior came over and asked why the heck I was wearing a harness. My boat neighbor spoke up and said that I sailed across the lake single handed. The old salt didn’t say a word, just walked away. I found out later that he never went out unless he had a full crew.

This was my Ah-Ha moment. I realized that I was truly involved in something that I loved, had some skill at, and had the respect of the old salts in the marina. Being 30 years old, and the youngest in the marina, that meant a lot to me. I have sailed a lot of miles since then and have seen my share of nasty, cold weather, big seas, and the wind speed hitting 60.5 knots right before a race in Chicago last summer. But that day on Superior is one of the few that I would put on the highlight reel.


----------



## smackdaddy

Oh, man, how did I miss this one Tim??? I see your point. And I absolutely understand that Ah-Ha moment - and what it means.

What a great memory.


----------



## smackdaddy

Holy crap - look at this. Some language in the video - so be warned. But talk about sobering.

Some background...



> Dom Mee is a British adventurer who attempted in August/September 2005 to cross the North Atlantic Ocean in a 14' (4.26 m) kite-propelled boat, dubbed the Little Murka.
> 
> His journey began from Saint John's, Canada, on August 19, 2005. The main kite was 107.6 sq. ft. (10 m².) in area, which gave the boat speeds of up to thirteen knots. The boat was carrying 60 days' worth of provisions. The total length of the journey was to be 2,000 nautical miles (3,700 km): he planned to arrive at Exmouth in Devon, southwest England, in 35 days, but arduous weather conditions slowed his progress, often driving him back, and damaging his communications equipment. After weathering three severe storms, the Kite Boat lost its sea anchor on Sunday 25 September, lashed by 70 km/h winds in seas up to 18 m high.
> 
> A series of capsizes followed, and Dom's cabin filled with water. He spent five hours clinging to the upturned hull, before a wave righted the boat. For a further 24 hours he managed to keep the boat afloat, before he was rescued by the Canadian Coast Guard.
> 
> A year later the Little Murka encrusted with barnacles washed up on the shores of Ireland and Dom's "farewell" video was recovered.


----------



## Faster

Powerful stuff, Smack... sobering indeed.


----------



## sailingdog

*Dom Mee didn't weather three severe storms... he got hit by the remnants of three HURRICANES... in a toy pod that wasn't designed to handle hurricane conditions.* Murka was poorly thought out... as was his attempt to cross the Atlantic during hurricane season.

I'd point out that the conditions Dom Mee describes in his video don't mesh with what appears in the video itself... it's been deconstructed and analyzed fairly heavily that he was describing conditions that just didn't happen.


----------



## scraph

While this isn't a BFS, by my definition or that of many others, it was my first big wind day.

I've only had the boat for 6 months or so at this point. I had never sailed (but had boated a reasonable amount) prior to buying the boat. My plans were liveaboard while the Navy moves me up and down the coast. Learning to sail was trial by fire from the beginning.

This Sunday I went out single handing with the winds blowing 20kts. I have only been single handing thus far only a few times. I have been making day sails with others once a week for the past few months (on which I've always been the most experienced). I'm learning fast to prepare myself for a relocation from Charleston to Norfolk-area within a year.

I've been looking to put myself into gradually more challenging conditions as they arise to help prepare myself.

The winds were blowing an avg 20kts when I backed out of the slip. To help myself out, I swapped the main halyard from the winch at the mast base to the rope clutch and self-tailer on the cockpit top ... just in case. It was already 11am on a Sunday and not a soul was in the Charleston Harbor (save for a few power boaters). I turned into the wind, hoisting the main and unfurling the 130% (#2), and turned off into a close reach.

I sailed around the inner harbor on all points of sail ... followed a local tour boat into shallower waters (trusting his local knowledge and generally following his wake) and took that opportunity to "claw off a leeward shore".

On a few occassions I put myself through a controlled gybe. I also took the opportunity on some downwind runs to wear ship and tack to accomplish the gybe.

With 20 knots average, I saw frequent gusts to 25 knots and the occassional to 28. I kept full sail up and was very impressed with the ability of this boat (C&C 32) to dig in and drive.

What makes this a "BFS" of sorts for me is I, for the first time, had the rail down to the water with a decent chop (3-4 feet) washing over the rail at times. At no time did the boat feel unstable, overpowered, or unsafe. The skill I need to further develop is sail balance (very important with the large jib sail plan on the boat). It can develop reasonable helm in either direction when improperly balanced but responds very well to balancing via the cabin top traveller. I did accomplish a very stable close haul. The boat kept itself dead on 30 degrees with the rudder centered and free to turn. Running up or falling off the wind to maintain the point of sail wasn't even noticeable on the wind vane and she pulled a cool 6.5kts water speed while doing it.

In short, I had a blast and I'm looking forward to the next stiff breeze with a chop and can't wait to get her out past the jetty and into a decent swell.


----------



## smackdaddy

sailingdog said:


> *Dom Mee didn't weather three severe storms... he got hit by the remnants of three HURRICANES... in a toy pod that wasn't designed to handle hurricane conditions.* Murka was poorly thought out... as was his attempt to cross the Atlantic during hurricane season.
> 
> I'd point out that the conditions Dom Mee describes in his video don't mesh with what appears in the video itself... it's been deconstructed and analyzed fairly heavily that he was describing conditions that just didn't happen.


Dog - who did the deconstruction and analysis, and where is it available? I'd be interested to read that.

As for the conditions, as we all know, those are notoriously hard to determine from video - especially video when it is at water level. I will say I was struck by how "peaceful" it seemed in the boat when he was doing the commentary in the cabin. It actually made me dubious about how bad it really was outside while I was watching.

But there were two moments in the video that made me more of a believer that it was seriously bad. First, the keel footage. Aside from the obvious fact that the boat was being rolled (he's sitting on the turtled hull holding on to the keel) right after he says "nightmare", you can hear the wave coming in just before the camera goes under. Definitely a breaking wave - and obviously big enough to roll the boat - again.

Then toward the end, when he's doing another cabin commentary (which is now half full of water), he puts the camera up out of the companion way and shows the sea. It definitely looks big and angry - even though it look relatively calm in the cabin. F10? I'd give it to him. Though I don't see 18m seas (at least they don't "seem" that big), the wind definitely looks mean.

So, regardless of whether "Little Murka" was a poorly designed "toy" or not, and regardless of the timing of the voyage, I think the video has huge value for us sailors:

1. Yet again, even a "toy" boat withstood far more than the sailor. Staying with the boat is critical.
2. The boat offers amazing shelter from crazy conditions. I don't know if that was due to the drogue or what, but it's definitely where you want to be...even if it's half filled with water. You don't want to be out in what he shows with that shot through the companionway.
3. After punching his EPIRB, 30 hours passed before help arrived...from the CCG. 6 hours! That's an eternity. From his website...



> Attempted the first ever kite boat sail across the North Atlantic he endured hurricanes Irene, Katrina, Maria, Ophelia and finally Rita. On losing his sea anchor he was capsized 8 times before the vessel remained inverted. In mountainous seas and winds in excess of 70 knots waiting 30 hours for a rescue vessel in the perfect storm, he remarkably survived.


And more to the story...

KiteQuest ~ Dom Mee










And more...



> The duty watch keeper at Halifax informed Adrian that the adverse sea state and storm conditions were less than perfect for a rescue attempt.
> 
> "Dom is in the worst possible place he could be in the North Atlantic; it could take some time to get to him. He is in a massive storm with 50-60 knot winds and experiencing mountainous swell&#8230; however we will do our best".
> 
> It took some time for 'Rescue 313' a Hercules aircraft to locate "Little Murka", however there was no sign of Dom. After circling for some time mindful of the adverse conditions; unable to get closer than 50 feet without risk to Dom and his boat, Dom emerged from his cabin.


Great video, eh?


----------



## smackdaddy

scraph said:


> While this isn't a BFS, by my definition or that of many others, it was my first big wind day.
> 
> I've only had the boat for 6 months or so at this point. I had never sailed (but had boated a reasonable amount) prior to buying the boat. My plans were liveaboard while the Navy moves me up and down the coast. Learning to sail was trial by fire from the beginning.
> 
> This Sunday I went out single handing with the winds blowing 20kts. I have only been single handing thus far only a few times. I have been making day sails with others once a week for the past few months (on which I've always been the most experienced). I'm learning fast to prepare myself for a relocation from Charleston to Norfolk-area within a year.
> 
> I've been looking to put myself into gradually more challenging conditions as they arise to help prepare myself.
> 
> The winds were blowing an avg 20kts when I backed out of the slip. To help myself out, I swapped the main halyard from the winch at the mast base to the rope clutch and self-tailer on the cockpit top ... just in case. It was already 11am on a Sunday and not a soul was in the Charleston Harbor (save for a few power boaters). I turned into the wind, hoisting the main and unfurling the 130% (#2), and turned off into a close reach.
> 
> I sailed around the inner harbor on all points of sail ... followed a local tour boat into shallower waters (trusting his local knowledge and generally following his wake) and took that opportunity to "claw off a leeward shore".
> 
> On a few occassions I put myself through a controlled gybe. I also took the opportunity on some downwind runs to wear ship and tack to accomplish the gybe.
> 
> With 20 knots average, I saw frequent gusts to 25 knots and the occassional to 28. I kept full sail up and was very impressed with the ability of this boat (C&C 32) to dig in and drive.
> 
> What makes this a "BFS" of sorts for me is I, for the first time, had the rail down to the water with a decent chop (3-4 feet) washing over the rail at times. At no time did the boat feel unstable, overpowered, or unsafe. The skill I need to further develop is sail balance (very important with the large jib sail plan on the boat). It can develop reasonable helm in either direction when improperly balanced but responds very well to balancing via the cabin top traveller. I did accomplish a very stable close haul. The boat kept itself dead on 30 degrees with the rudder centered and free to turn. Running up or falling off the wind to maintain the point of sail wasn't even noticeable on the wind vane and she pulled a cool 6.5kts water speed while doing it.
> 
> In short, I had a blast and I'm looking forward to the next stiff breeze with a chop and can't wait to get her out past the jetty and into a decent swell.


Scraph, dude, THIS IS PRECISELY WHAT BFS IS ALL ABOUT!

Seriously, it's about gradually working up to more and more difficult sailing. It's about pushing your limits to gain the skill set to deal with bigger conditions. And it's about having a blast doing it.

That's freakin' sailing!

Definitely a BFS! Congrats dude.


----------



## smackdaddy

Scraph - great blog by the way. I admire your commitment (and your wife's) to living simple and sailing big.

PM me your mailing address and I'll send you a BFS sticker.


----------



## rmeador

I guess by definition your first time sailing would be your Big(est) Freakin' Sail. I'm new to the sport, and I have a delusion of living aboard starting this summer, which is actually on track. To see if I actually wanted to live aboard, I decided to go down to St Thomas over the winter and spend 8 days on an Island Packet 440 taking sailing classes. It was my first time ever on a sailboat and my first time on the ocean (previously I had only experienced small motorboats on lakes). It was probably the most fun thing I have ever done, and just like I imagined. The beautiful views of the water, the near-silent gliding along with just the wind pushing you, visiting places most people never get to go.

My "BFS" was the second to last day of the class. We set out early and the winds slowly built until it was 23kn steady apparent, and we were on a broad reach at about 7.5kn, so I estimate the winds were upwards of 26kn true. We had gentle 6' swells. It was a blast steering up and down the waves. We were having so much fun we just kept sailing out to sea, everyone in the class taking turns at the helm. We were about 20nm out before the captain decided to have us turn around and get back to the pre-planned course. That was the day when my desire to live aboard a boat went from "want" to "need".

I find it interesting that these conditions (particularly the wind speed) are often BFS material, but in my case they were thrilling (to a noob), but at no time did I ever feel like it was too much. We did effectively have 1 reef in the main, since we had been using a main that was one size too small while the normal one was being repaired.


----------



## smackdaddy

rm - dude, you nailed it too. Back in the early days of this thread - lots of people were missing the whole point (and some still do).

It's about the love of sailing and excitement you feel when you're handling bigger conditions - and having a blast doing it...enough to keep that heading for as long as the sea will allow. Like you say, that is the most incredible feeling ever. It's the story you tell over beers for the rest of your life - or until the better sail comes along. That's BFS.

There are lots of people that get that. And there are few that don't. And that's cool, marinas are hurting. They need more people to just sit in their slips and buy ice.


----------



## smackdaddy

sailingdog said:


> *I'd point out that the conditions Dom Mee describes in his video don't mesh with what appears in the video itself... it's been deconstructed and analyzed fairly heavily that he was describing conditions that just didn't happen.*


*

Dog - where is that analysis? I'm still curious to see where you got this info.*


----------



## blackjenner

smackdaddy said:


> Dog - where is that analysis? I'm still curious to see where you got this info.


Not dogpiling but, yeah, me too.


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay, over a week with no evidence? I call BS on Dog calling BS on Mee.

Speaking of multis falling down...check out this story. Freakin' insane.

Yachtsman Richard Charrington tells of his struggle to survive - Times Online

A French hospital dungeon? Holy crap!


----------



## Maxboatspeed

*I wanna sticker*

Smackdaddy,
I read the last of this thread and am thinkin:

You sure seem to know some snit for a "new guy"
I get the BSF thing (BFS? Whatever). BSF Global Regatta? Joke? Game?

Here's one:
Once upon a time...
There was a guy that thought he was a pretty good sailor. He learned to sail, race, and maintain boats as a kid. Midlife, He got a 40' mono and started single handing, updating, and tinkering with the great new toy. He knew enough to start slow and take it from there (?). Well, a couple months into it, sailing on a reach @ 8 kts, 25 kts wind, 3-4' seas, the boat beautifully balanced, etc. Smilin big time. All seemed awesome. A glance below brought shock. Floor boards floating and water 2" above the cabin deck. Panic was the first reaction. Alone, biggest stuff seen with this boat, taking on water. The AP can't handle these conditions. Windvane is not a quick option. Bilge pump ain't going. So, second thought is NO PANIC - Figure this out, act, think, don't make things worse, avoid a "chain of errors", act logically. These ideas seem to work in most "emergency" situations.
So... 1. Get the boat to balance, heave to, anything in order to go below and fix snit. Didn't take long because he'd already figured that out. Lash the wheel, ballance the sails.

2. Find the leak and get the bilge pump going. (It was realized early on that the main electric bilge pump had been turned off while renewing wires).
The pump came on fine but it was obvious it was not enough. 
3. Find the source. No need to lift floor boards, already floating. The low parts of the bilge are now 2-3' under water. There's a huge number of lockers, berths, compartments that could be the source! He had to think, not panic, while sailing alone on a boat he was just learning. 
So - seacocks? OK. Keel bolts? OK. Check position, heading, traffic. OK. 
Meanwhile, sailing toward a possible anchorage. Land is all around (3-5nm). Good places to anchor - not many. 
Actually, in this case, the source was located and temporarily plugged fairly quickly. 
The source was the anchor locker drain. It was a 1" hose leading from the anchor locker ( 1' under the foredeck) to a through hull mounted on the stem (~2.5' ABOVE the static waterline). This hose was clogged a few days earlier and had been worked on. It was connected to the through hull fine. The end that connects to the locker (3-4' above waterline) was not secured because the drain fitting would be replaced. 
At 8 kts, big bow wave, bow digging into large chop, this hose was dumping into the anchor locker at about the rate of two garden hoses.
Quickly plugged with the DC supplies on hand. 
There's more, but ya'll get the idea?
That guy learned a lot that day.

Oh ya - not knowing much about the guy trying to "sail" a covered skiff transatlantic with a kite?... Well, didn't work out and he's lucky the SAR guys saved his arse.
Max


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## blackjenner

Maxboatspeed said:


> Smackdaddy,
> I read the last of this thread and am thinkin:
> 
> You sure seem to know some snit for a "new guy"
> I get the BSF thing (BFS? Whatever). BSF Global Regatta? Joke? Game?
> 
> Here's one:
> Once upon a time...
> There was a guy that thought he was a pretty good sailor. He learned to sail, race, and maintain boats as a kid. Midlife, He got a 40' mono and started single handing, updating, and tinkering with the great new toy. He knew enough to start slow and take it from there (?). Well, a couple months into it, sailing on a reach @ 8 kts, 25 kts wind, 3-4' seas, the boat beautifully balanced, etc. Smilin big time. All seemed awesome. A glance below brought shock. Floor boards floating and water 2" above the cabin deck. Panic was the first reaction. Alone, biggest stuff seen with this boat, taking on water. The AP can't handle these conditions. Windvane is not a quick option. Bilge pump ain't going. So, second thought is NO PANIC - Figure this out, act, think, don't make things worse, avoid a "chain of errors", act logically. These ideas seem to work in most "emergency" situations.
> So... 1. Get the boat to balance, heave to, anything in order to go below and fix snit. Didn't take long because he'd already figured that out. Lash the wheel, ballance the sails.
> 
> 2. Find the leak and get the bilge pump going. (It was realized early on that the main electric bilge pump had been turned off while renewing wires).
> The pump came on fine but it was obvious it was not enough.
> 3. Find the source. No need to lift floor boards, already floating. The low parts of the bilge are now 2-3' under water. There's a huge number of lockers, berths, compartments that could be the source! He had to think, not panic, while sailing alone on a boat he was just learning.
> So - seacocks? OK. Keel bolts? OK. Check position, heading, traffic. OK.
> Meanwhile, sailing toward a possible anchorage. Land is all around (3-5nm). Good places to anchor - not many.
> Actually, in this case, the source was located and temporarily plugged fairly quickly.
> The source was the anchor locker drain. It was a 1" hose leading from the anchor locker ( 1' under the foredeck) to a through hull mounted on the stem (~2.5' ABOVE the static waterline). This hose was clogged a few days earlier and had been worked on. It was connected to the through hull fine. The end that connects to the locker (3-4' above waterline) was not secured because the drain fitting would be replaced.
> At 8 kts, big bow wave, bow digging into large chop, this hose was dumping into the anchor locker at about the rate of two garden hoses.
> Quickly plugged with the DC supplies on hand.
> There's more, but ya'll get the idea?
> That guy learned a lot that day.
> 
> Oh ya - not knowing much about the guy trying to "sail" a covered skiff transatlantic with a kite?... Well, didn't work out and he's lucky the SAR guys saved his arse.
> Max


I loved that story. The best lessons always seem to come right when we think we have everything handled.

"Man, I am awesome at this.....what's that water?"

Thanks for sharing.


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## smackdaddy

Hey Max - thanks for the BFS story. First, let me address some of your comments:



Maxboatspeed said:


> You sure seem to know some snit for a "new guy"


I've been sailing for 2 years now - all on a lake except for my sail on the Hudson with Bubb.

So, I definitely don't know much - but I'm very, very passionate about sailing and am learning absolutely everything I can. And SN and the salts around here go a LONG way in helping that process.

The bottom line is that it's really not as hard or scary as many make it out to be. When I first started I was very, very intimidated by it all...the terminology, the complexity of the sails, ROW rules, and on and on. And yeah, that stuff is pretty complex - but jeez, you can get out and learn to sail a 27' boat from point A to point B in a few hours! And you'll have the most fun you've ever had in you're life! That last part is what I DID "know". And I was right.

Sure, you'll still have a lifetime of learning in front of you - but the point is you'll be doing it! And that's what counts the most.

Then, from there, you'll be pushing your own limits a bit more with each season. Sometimes you'll do it intentionally, sometimes you'll just get caught (like your story). But during it all, you'll not only learn stuff you didn't know before, but you'll have BFS stories that you'll excitedly tell to everyone you absolutely can (again, like your story). That's BFS in a nutshell.

Look, if I can learn a few things about sailing - ANYONE can learn it. It ain't rocket science. It's just awesome.



Maxboatspeed said:


> BSF Global Regatta? Joke? Game?


No, the BFSGR is absolutely the real deal. The way I figure it, if we can all race each other without the stresses, costs, and hassles of actually having to be in a formal club/regatta, we'll all have a blast. From newbies to vet racers - we just go out on our body of water, when we want, on whatever boat we have, and we run around a course and compare our best time to others'. What's not to like?

So get me the coords for a course in your area and let's race!

Now, as for your story, that's a BFS. It wasn't mother nature throwing down on the dude, it was just a technical oversight. But, the dude didn't panic, he handled the problem, and as long as he still loved sailing and went out again with that new knowledge - it was just a BFS and not a disaster.

I will say this though regarding single-handing (which will undoubtedly assure me tons of grief): If anyone around here wants to talk "prudent sailing" and then turn around and defend singlehanding as in any way "sensible" - they're nuts. Sailing singlehanded is undoubtedly the most dangerous way to sail that there is.


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## Maxboatspeed

*Exactly - smackdaddy*

SD,
like I said - you seem to know your snit. Thanks for adding the excellent comments.

Two main points I think you helped to relate:

1. All that pursue sailing can sail. Basic sailing is available to anyone that is willing to learn. It ain't that hard. There are lots that want to help "newbies" get going.

2. Singlehanding a bigger keel boat is not something to be taken lightly. I guess this idea is similar to scuba diving alone, mountain climbing alone, backcountry skiing alone, etc. All of these are not a good idea - except that folks that are very advanced find solo stuff to be the next challenge. Training for diving, skiing, and climbing start by explaining the risks involved with going solo. In fact, it's accepted, solo is nuts - except maybe for the very advanced. 
Not so for sailing?

So, thanks SD. I appreciate your comments and input. You write pretty well (and a lot).

Max


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## mackconsult

*2010 Oregon Offshore*

I few boats had to retire because of "chronic seasickness" .... 

Oregon Offshore 2010 - McCormack's


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## knothead

*BFS - big freaking stick*

This was the first mast we pulled after getting our crane. Five years later we finally restepped it.









I can breath again.


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## smackdaddy

Maxboatspeed said:


> SD,
> like I said - you seem to know your snit. Thanks for adding the excellent comments.
> 
> Two main points I think you helped to relate:
> 
> 1. All that pursue sailing can sail. Basic sailing is available to anyone that is willing to learn. It ain't that hard. There are lots that want to help "newbies" get going.
> 
> 2. Singlehanding a bigger keel boat is not something to be taken lightly. I guess this idea is similar to scuba diving alone, mountain climbing alone, backcountry skiing alone, etc. All of these are not a good idea - except that folks that are very advanced find solo stuff to be the next challenge. Training for diving, skiing, and climbing start by explaining the risks involved with going solo. In fact, it's accepted, solo is nuts - except maybe for the very advanced.
> Not so for sailing?
> 
> So, thanks SD. I appreciate your comments and input. You write pretty well (and a lot).
> 
> Max


+1.

MAX: You nailed it on the singlehanding as compared to rock climbing, scuba diving, etc. And that's what is so fascinating about the argument. I've been a pretty avid participant in all the sports you mention. Let's take rock climbing for example. I was sport climbing at the 5.13 level up until our second kid (5 years ago). So I was fairly advanced. Would I defend going out and doing a 5.11 multi-pitch trad climb on self belay only? No way. That's crazy. What about a free solo speed climb on 5.9/10 (i.e. - no rope):






Again, no way. The bottom line is - there's high risk and no back up. Yet there are people out there doing both.

So, do singlehanding sailors equate what they're doing to the above video? And if not, why not?

KNOT: That is one BIG FREAKIN' STICK! Very nice! What's it off of?


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## MedSailor

Smack,

Perfect choice of videos to prove your point. Dan Osman is dead.  Not kind when you have a little kid to leave behind like he did.

That said, that lover's leap video is something he left behind for all of us to admire and watch in awe....

MedSailor


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## smackdaddy

No kiddin' Med. And the sickest part of it was that he didn't die free-soloing. He died when HIS ROPE BROKE!!!!

Of course, he was doing insanely huge intentional whippers - but still.


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## bubb2

smackdaddy said:


> No kiddin' Med. And the sickest part of it was that he didn't die free-soloing. He died when HIS ROPE BROKE!!!!
> 
> Of course, he was doing insanely huge intentional whippers - but still.


Smack, I sure you meant that his line broke. It's an f'in sailing board for love of Jesus.


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## smackdaddy

bubb2 said:


> Smack, I sure you meant that his line broke. It's an f'in sailing board for love of Jesus.


Heh-heh. My bad....

He died when his line/halyard/sheet/painter/warp/rode...parted.

What did I f'in forget Bubb?


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## knothead

smackdaddy said:


> KNOT: That is one BIG FREAKIN' STICK! Very nice! What's it off of?


Gulfstar 65'


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## Irony17

So cheers to me...
Heres my BFS story as a newbie. So I decide to take my morgan 24 out, keep in mind i did say a NEWBIE. lol. I was so excited about all the wind coming in and decided that I wasn't going to sit around. Well I got out there with a piece of crap motor ended up in the tooley(Sp?) weeds . It all happened by putting the anchor out with out it tied down and with the sails still up and the wind coming in at about 10 knots. Sure 10 knots isn't that much but for a NEWBIE and having the sails up and the same time it was a well learned adventure. 
Lets just say the day ended by me being towed out of the weeds and back to safe dockage. 
Bad idea to go out with two newbies and a big fat crappy motor. 
LOL and Im being told to just do it, lol go sailing heck learn from experience. Yup I'm a little scared lol.


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## remetau

I had a Morgan 24 up on Lake Erie. One holiday weekend plus a couple of days off, we took her over to Put N Bay. We had been over there many times, but this was the Christmas in July party. We get over there and the weather turns to crap as it usually does there in Ohio. We sit out the storms in the 4 – 5 footers in the bay and then decided that we had to get back to the mainland. We set out with the just main up in 20 -30 knot winds with 6 -8 footers in just 35’ of water. The breakers were rough, and we were fighting the whole way, but man what a hell of time. I just love surfing down the front of the wave holding on to the tiller with my knuckles glowing white.


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## Irony17

Now that's what I'm talking about, one thing I know is I like heading straight for those waves and making my stomach turn to knots for that adrenaliln rush too


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## knothead

Irony17 said:


> So cheers to me...
> Heres my BFS story as a newbie. So I decide to take my morgan 24 out, keep in mind i did say a NEWBIE. lol. I was so excited about all the wind coming in and decided that I wasn't going to sit around. Well I got out there with a piece of crap motor ended up in the tooley(Sp?) weeds . It all happened by putting the anchor out with out it tied down and with the sails still up and the wind coming in at about 10 knots. Sure 10 knots isn't that much but for a NEWBIE and having the sails up and the same time it was a well learned adventure.
> Lets just say the day ended by me being towed out of the weeds and back to safe dockage.
> Bad idea to go out with two newbies and a big fat crappy motor.
> LOL and Im being told to just do it, lol go sailing heck learn from experience. Yup I'm a little scared lol.


Are you in the San Joaquin Delta area?


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## Irony17

Yes I am. I'm located in Iselton pretty close to Rio Vista (Right in the Delta)


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## sailor50

We spell them Tule and pronounce them tooley in the Delta.


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## knothead

Irony17 said:


> Yes I am. I'm located in Iselton pretty close to Rio Vista (Right in the Delta)


Cool, I spent years in the same area. At least you have plenty of wind.


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## smackdaddy

You wanna know what BFS is? Right here from Sharps...



sharps4590 said:


> To all you guys who have been sailing for years, watch yer back trail...I'm a'gainin' on ye!!! LOL!
> 
> Yea, right, in my dreams. However, this week I've had two sails in my Bucc. Both on a little lake here in the Ozarks. I am thrilled at how much I learned so quickly....but isn't that the way it often is, that you learn...maybe experience is a better word.... a lot of things that are really fairly obvious then the learning curve becomes a lot longer.
> 
> At any rate, both sails were on bluebird days with light and variable winds...learned that for me light, variable winds coming off these ridges and outta these draws can be a might confusin' even watching the true wind indicator and waves...it moves so often. Also, it seemed to me that I could feel the wind pick up on my face before it actually had an effect on the sails. Is that right or am I just imagining that?
> 
> Had the pleasure and rush of gusts that would last for from a few seconds to almost a minute...it is a small lake...and the sails popping full, boat heeling over and the rush of water past the hull then feeling the smile on our faces....then tacking back through my own wake.
> 
> We got a rigging problem figured out so nothing is difficult now. And the best part of the first sail was that my oldest son and his wife were home from Omaha and he went with me. It was his first time on a sail boat and my first in 30 Years. He got a big thrill out of it too. He's usually quite reticent but I knew he was enjoying it immensely when a gust popped up, the boat heeled over, took off and he yelled.....he never yells...."YEA DAD!!!!! WE'RE DOIN' IT NOW!!"
> 
> I want to thank everyone on this board. I've read so much of it trying to learn as much as I could. The generosity of all you who share your knowledge is greatly appreciated. It certainly made my first two sails a pleasure and as far as I'm concerned a success. Thank you.
> 
> Vic


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## smackdaddy

And another great BFS from ian...

Click the arrow by his name below to check out the actual thread. He got so hooked he just upgraded his ride!



lans0012 said:


> Hey gang I thought I'd post a successfull weekend on here. I finally got my first boat in October and I cleaned it up, did some interior spiffing and replaced the outboard. I've been getting my sea legs for a few months staying close to the marina always. This weekend I took the boat all the way across Tampa Bay to Apollo Beach, navigated an inlet, docked the boat at the marina, ate a cheeseburger, drank a beer, and made it home right around nightfall. I took sailing lessons last year on a lake and before I got the boat I'd never even been on salt water because I'm from Minnesota. So here's to all the nice people on Sailnet and other places I roamed around who answered a lot of dumb questions.
> 
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> I also made it to the bar on Friday with the boat so I posted a picture of that too. That was also a first.
> 
> I also "touched bottom" for the first time in the inlet to Apollo Beach.


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## zz4gta

Forecast was for 15-20 out of the E. Sounded great even for a 123nm course with a heading of due south. We get to the starting line and it’s slightly less than forecasted. Like 15 knots less. Creeping out to Tolly point light we search for breeze and actually do quite well. Staying in front of Schiehallion as we rounded the point was a highlight. Breeze slowly filled in and went to the south, just as we turned south. And then it proceeded to stay there for eternity. As if that wasn’t depressing enough, thunderstorms filled in from NW and rolled us for the next 10 hours. Everything gets wet. EVERYTHING. 

Pounding into wave after wave wasn’t exactly what the crew had in mind when they signed up for this race. Channel traffic was bad and we even had to crack off from our close hauled course to dodge a cargo ship. Strategy didn’t go as planned; we ended up outside of the channel when we should’ve been in it and vise a versa. We battled on through the night and I was starting to give into fatigue falling asleep on the rail. Crew told me to go below, I wisely listened. Couldn’t sleep and went topside again. The wind built to 15-20+ and we decided to change to the #3, probably a little late, and were making better time again. Couldn’t get the sail flaked on deck, so the wet mess went below decks. That proved to make sleeping a bit more difficult curled up next to a wet Fusion M. 

We pounded onward, trying to dodge the big waves and stay powered up through the slop. The sun started to rise and we were passed Tangier Island. The rain had stopped, but I swear I saw a large wooden ship with two of each type of animal onboard wave at us as we passed. The wind started to lighten and the decision was made to go back to the #1. Went forward w/ the sail and hooked up the tack, taking the halyard forward we hit a funky wave, I went for the lifeline, which gave way, and I went over the side in foulies in the southern bay. That was an experience I don’t want to relive. I kicked hard to get above water and made one giant leap for the toe rail near the helm, snagged it, and got my other hand up as one of the crew grabbed my bibs and heave hoed me over the gunnels into the boat. I laughed a bit, continued with the sail change, and then peeled off the wet close. As if the boat couldn’t get anymore wet than it was. Hat sunglasses and cell phone were claimed by the bay, but no sailors on Audrey. 

We did find Insolvent near the finish, the wind didn’t help us much, they were high on the mark and were able to set a chute to get them to the York buoy, after that, we stayed close, but not enough to correct in front of them. We’re close and everyone is perked up wanting the agony to end. Rounding the mark, the wind was almost on the nose, still closed hauled, no surprise there. We call on the radio after insolvents hails went un answered, the RC had left the finish line. We crossed the finished and made for HYC. 

We arrived to cheering and hails of well done. Good people came down to the dock and brought beer, smiles and handshakes for the crew. Honestly, without a doubt, best part of the entire race. Unfortunately there wasn’t much left of the party, and no food. But we did hang out for a while and talked about the race. Met some nice people from SA. Next year, better tactics, less junk below decks, and hopefully the same crazy crew I had this year. 

Results are at Down the bay Race.


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## smackdaddy

HOLY CRAP!!! Dude, you got flicked!! Crazy!! 

Awesome story zz. Good thinking on the scramble back up and good work by your crew to get you back on so quickly.

Did the stanchions break? Or did the lifelines just part?

Anyway - glad you're safe. Sounds like this is one BFS you'll remember forever.

What's a link to the "Down the Bay Race" site?


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## CharlieCobra

Here's one for ya smacky, Dr. Laura on her J-125 recently.

YouTube - Downwind on J125 Warrior


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## zz4gta

smackdaddy said:


> HOLY CRAP!!! Dude, you got flicked!! Crazy!!
> 
> Awesome story zz. Good thinking on the scramble back up and good work by your crew to get you back on so quickly.
> 
> Did the stanchions break? Or did the lifelines just part?
> 
> Anyway - glad you're safe. Sounds like this is one BFS you'll remember forever.
> 
> What's a link to the "Down the Bay Race" site?


DOWN THE BAY VIRGINIA CRUISE CUP

lashing at the lifeline termination point failed. Will be doing repairs to that tomorrow. Along with repairing the tiller a crew member fell over, replacing a halyard that chafed, and cleaning up the mess from the outboard down below. Longest windward leg of my life.


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## smackdaddy

CC - WOW! I'd say she's "doing the right thing".

ZZ - have fun with the work. Epic sails always leave messes!


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## smackdaddy

Another great BFS from alan477 - with great lessons learned and a great attitude about it all...



alanr77 said:


> Hello all, posted a long time ago regarding getting a sailboat and learning to sail. Well, over the past year I have taken US Sailing classes and purchased a 1977 Catalina 22 (on the advice of sailing friends who said start small and with something you can sail now). Spent three months rebuilding her, upgrading rigging and such, and have now spent the last few months sailing her off the coast of Tybee Island, Ga. Fun little boat and some really relaxing days sailing around. However, yesterday we got caught in our first storm on a sailboat. Let me describe what happened, what I did, what I think I did wrong, and the outcome. Maybe some of you with experience can critique my actions so that I can learn from them.
> First off, I fully understand that the Catalina 22 is not designed for any kind of heavy weather or even use in the ocean. After yesterday I may be looking to sell her and purchase something more suited to the area in which I sail. Now on to the story;
> Yesterday started out perfectly, marine weather forecast called for partly cloudy, winds 10-15 knots, seas 2-3 feet with a 20% chance of a thunderstorm late in the day. Actual weather was sunny, 5-10 knot winds with 2-3 foot waves. We sailed out about 2 miles from shore tacking every half mile or so trying to make it to Saint Cathrine's island. Somewhere around 1530 hrs we noticed thunderheads a long distance away appearing south. I decided to turn around and run North back to Tybee and the protected inlet of the Savannah River. We were making good speed until suddenly all wind died. The sun was still out and the storm, though closing, was still far on the horizon. After about 35 minutes, the wind resumed at around the same speed as before. Now, I am running a 150 Genoa and a full Mainsail, the only sails I have as my working Jib fell apart from age. After running for about an hour, the storm started filling the sky behind us. The wind started picking up though not dangerously. I started thinking about reducing sail but because we were making good speed I decided to hold on a little longer.
> This I believe was my first mistake, because about 10 minutes later, the wind started gusting to about force 3-4. The boat began to surf and seemed to plane. I told the girl to hold the tiller and keep the boat pointed downwind as I went forward to wrestle down the genny and secure it. I managed to do this without to much fuss though the jib halyard broke free and flew around near horizontal for the remainder of the storm. (at this point we could not turn into the wind to take down sail as it would have capsized us)
> Once the genny was down the boat became controllable again and we continued to run under full mainsail with the sheet all the way out. I had never reefed the main before and couldn't find any line small enough to do so but I kept thinking that I needed to reef NOW!!!! We were at this point about a half mile from the turn into the Savannah River. Suddenly, the storm winds hit, wind indicator showed sustained 37mph with gusts to 48. The waves became taller than the cabin of the boat and salt water filled the air. Mistake number 2, I should have dropped the main before the winds hit. Though I thought we could make it. Again I told the girl to hold the tiller (which at this time had so much weather helm that it was almost impossible to keep the boat straight. It would round up to port even with two hands pulling the rudder and bracing against the cockpit. She was screaming that she couldn't hold it but I knew I had to drop the main. I waited until we were in between waves and jumped up, released the halyard and wrestled the main down, wrapped it around the boom and secured it with bungee cords. We were now running under bare poles and it seemed to be somewhat more comfortable. Though she still had amazingly strong weather helm and waves were boarding over the transom. (Cockpit lockers are water tight and secured, additional drains have been installed in the cockpit and I had put the companionway boards in earlier so they were draining quickly and to me posed no real threat).
> Now, on to my biggest mistake. What I think I should have done is maintain sea room and continue to run as I had control, I was watertight and the storm was fast moving. What I did was try to turn into to Savannah River inlet and make it to the protection of the cove.
> First let me describe the inlet. The Savannah River inlet is about three miles wide, has submerged rock jetties dividing it into two channels. A major shipping lane goes through the southern side. Massive sand bars line both sides and run right up to the navigational buoys. The tide was outgoing against the wind and the water depth goes from 40' to 7' very quickly. Basically, 5-6 foot swells become 6-7' breakers very quickly.
> By turning to port under bare poles I lost steerage way and began taking large breaking waves on my beam. I started the outboard (useless as it was out of the water most of time) and tried to make some sort of headway. I kept trying to run a bit and then turn to port to make it the half mile or so to get behind the island. After doing this for the longest 35 minutes of my life, and having one particularly large breaker lift us up, roll us over till the starboard windows were submerged and then slide us down the wave (thank god the keel was down) we began to get shielded by the island.
> Suddenly, the wind stopped, the waves dissipated and the sun came out.....it became the most beautiful time yet on the water. Dolphins were playing, gulls were circling, it was almost surreal. As if we had just passed a test and this was the reward...
> Now, I would like to say it was my actions that saved us that day but I know it was pure luck. I made some near fatal mistakes yesterday that could have cost me the boat and possibly our lives. Though this may seem petty to those who brave mid ocean storms with 40' waves and 60 knot winds. Our little gale with 6-7 foot breakers in a 1900 pound 22' boat seemed serious enough to us...
> Now, what could I have done better? I have been in worse storms in a small Boston Whaler that seemed safer than this sailboat. This boat was all over the place, weather helm was so strong I thought the tiller would break.
> 
> I have come up with my own conclusions that I would appreciate comments on;
> 
> 1) If you think a storm is approaching and the weather report confirms this, if you can take refuge in the nearest leeward cove or behind the lee of an island, do it. If you cannot,
> 2) Seriously reduce sail area well before the winds hit, in a small boat like the Catalina 22 this may be all sails down and secure.
> 3) If you get caught in the storm, maintain sea room and stay the hell out of harbors and river inlets until the storm passes. Wave heights in these areas are astronomical.
> 4) Never take waves on the beam, if your running continue to do so.
> 5) Outboards are useless in a seaway.
> 
> Being that we survived this, I am taking this as a stern lesson from the sea. Apparently she is not a theoretical teacher. She teaches you in ways that force you to learn and if you fail, you don't come back.
> 
> What should I have done differently?
> 
> The situation was very scary in this boat, is this boat really so bad in these conditions that I need to look at buying a different boat?
> 
> Would a heavy displacement, 27' boat have made a difference or was it simply my inexperience that made it so scary?
> 
> All in all I am amazed at how quickly the sea can become dangerous and though it was quite terrifying, I look forward to the next sail... Alan.


----------



## jerryrlitton

NOW I know what BFS's are, more to come. Thanks Smack.

Jerry


----------



## smackdaddy

Dude....it was an honor! Any time.


----------



## Guero

My first sailboat was a Catalina 25 Wing Keel. That was about 6 months ago. M friend and I, both inexperienced, left the "puerto de abrigo" just before they raised the red flag. We knew a "norte" was coming, but we tought meteo was precise. So anyway we're flying on a reach following the cost when the weather goes bad, we decide to turn around. Surprise, the waves, about 7 foot with the current, were strongers then the engine (Johnson 9.9) at maximum throttle. 

Batteries went dead, (old batteries), my friend distracted forgot a line that went into the watter and the prop decided to eat it. So engine dies. At this point, the jib goes in "heave mode" leave a small inverted pocket of air. We're dangerously close to the shore, so I scream to my friend "Throw the anchor!!". He throw the anchor but doesn't realise the line get stock, so now I'm at the back of the boat looking at the beach getting closer, I jump into the water to untangle the prop from the jib sheet, then I see a piece of metal floating at the back of the outboard, first thing I thought, holy **** we broke something... No , that was actually the anchor, the current was so strong that the anchor was floating behind the boat. Anyway, Managed to untangle the prop, get the engine started... At about 1.5 knots beating with both engine and jib, we managed to make it to the port entry, and engine dies... NO MORE FUEL.. We managed to find 2 liters of a portable fuel tank we had and managed to enter the puerto de abrigo just before the wind raised to crazy conditions. Not to mention that this particular Catalina-25 had a Roller Main Sail, so no reaf possible, if you reaf it by rolling, it just create a huge bubble of air healing you 30 degrees and slowing you down.

When we came back, the marine owners were still there, on a monday. And we were all "what the heck?" they said the were worried that we were still out in that big "norte" on the gulf with such a small boat and were not answering VHF clals. 

Well, I learned a lot from this experience. Now i know what "newbie" means. 

I know own an Aloha 34, a much more forgiving boat on the gulf and Carribean sea than the Catalina 25. But I will never forget my little boat.

We carefully take the boat out on some strong wind days on the gulf in order to learn and stay sharp.


----------



## lapworth

zz4gta said:


> Forecast was for 15-20 out of the E. Sounded great even for a 123nm course with a heading of due south. We get to the starting line and it's slightly less than forecasted. Like 15 knots less. Creeping out to Tolly point light we search for breeze and actually do quite well. Staying in front of Schiehallion as we rounded the point was a highlight. Breeze slowly filled in and went to the south, just as we turned south. And then it proceeded to stay there for eternity. As if that wasn't depressing enough, thunderstorms filled in from NW and rolled us for the next 10 hours. Everything gets wet. EVERYTHING.
> 
> Pounding into wave after wave wasn't exactly what the crew had in mind when they signed up for this race. Channel traffic was bad and we even had to crack off from our close hauled course to dodge a cargo ship. Strategy didn't go as planned; we ended up outside of the channel when we should've been in it and vise a versa. We battled on through the night and I was starting to give into fatigue falling asleep on the rail. Crew told me to go below, I wisely listened. Couldn't sleep and went topside again. The wind built to 15-20+ and we decided to change to the #3, probably a little late, and were making better time again. Couldn't get the sail flaked on deck, so the wet mess went below decks. That proved to make sleeping a bit more difficult curled up next to a wet Fusion M.
> 
> We pounded onward, trying to dodge the big waves and stay powered up through the slop. The sun started to rise and we were passed Tangier Island. The rain had stopped, but I swear I saw a large wooden ship with two of each type of animal onboard wave at us as we passed. The wind started to lighten and the decision was made to go back to the #1. Went forward w/ the sail and hooked up the tack, taking the halyard forward we hit a funky wave, I went for the lifeline, which gave way, and I went over the side in foulies in the southern bay. That was an experience I don't want to relive. I kicked hard to get above water and made one giant leap for the toe rail near the helm, snagged it, and got my other hand up as one of the crew grabbed my bibs and heave hoed me over the gunnels into the boat. I laughed a bit, continued with the sail change, and then peeled off the wet close. As if the boat couldn't get anymore wet than it was. Hat sunglasses and cell phone were claimed by the bay, but no sailors on Audrey.
> 
> We did find Insolvent near the finish, the wind didn't help us much, they were high on the mark and were able to set a chute to get them to the York buoy, after that, we stayed close, but not enough to correct in front of them. We're close and everyone is perked up wanting the agony to end. Rounding the mark, the wind was almost on the nose, still closed hauled, no surprise there. We call on the radio after insolvents hails went un answered, the RC had left the finish line. We crossed the finished and made for HYC.
> 
> We arrived to cheering and hails of well done. Good people came down to the dock and brought beer, smiles and handshakes for the crew. Honestly, without a doubt, best part of the entire race. Unfortunately there wasn't much left of the party, and no food. But we did hang out for a while and talked about the race. Met some nice people from SA. Next year, better tactics, less junk below decks, and hopefully the same crazy crew I had this year.
> 
> Results are at Down the bay Race.


Hey zz sorry I missed the race tried to give shout but guess I was a little to late or you crew filled up. Hope we catch up some time on the bay.


----------



## smackdaddy

Holy crap, guero! That sounds like a big freakin' fiasco!

Good job on keeping her off the beach!



Guero said:


> My first sailboat was a Catalina 25 Wing Keel. That was about 6 months ago. M friend and I, both inexperienced, left the "puerto de abrigo" just before they raised the red flag. We knew a "norte" was coming, but we tought meteo was precise. So anyway we're flying on a reach following the cost when the weather goes bad, we decide to turn around. Surprise, the waves, about 7 foot with the current, were strongers then the engine (Johnson 9.9) at maximum throttle.
> 
> Batteries went dead, (old batteries), my friend distracted forgot a line that went into the watter and the prop decided to eat it. So engine dies. At this point, the jib goes in "heave mode" leave a small inverted pocket of air. We're dangerously close to the shore, so I scream to my friend "Throw the anchor!!". He throw the anchor but doesn't realise the line get stock, so now I'm at the back of the boat looking at the beach getting closer, I jump into the water to untangle the prop from the jib sheet, then I see a piece of metal floating at the back of the outboard, first thing I thought, holy **** we broke something... No , that was actually the anchor, the current was so strong that the anchor was floating behind the boat. Anyway, Managed to untangle the prop, get the engine started... At about 1.5 knots beating with both engine and jib, we managed to make it to the port entry, and engine dies... NO MORE FUEL.. We managed to find 2 liters of a portable fuel tank we had and managed to enter the puerto de abrigo just before the wind raised to crazy conditions. Not to mention that this particular Catalina-25 had a Roller Main Sail, so no reaf possible, if you reaf it by rolling, it just create a huge bubble of air healing you 30 degrees and slowing you down.
> 
> When we came back, the marine owners were still there, on a monday. And we were all "what the heck?" they said the were worried that we were still out in that big "norte" on the gulf with such a small boat and were not answering VHF clals.
> 
> Well, I learned a lot from this experience. Now i know what "newbie" means.
> 
> I know own an Aloha 34, a much more forgiving boat on the gulf and Carribean sea than the Catalina 25. But I will never forget my little boat.
> 
> We carefully take the boat out on some strong wind days on the gulf in order to learn and stay sharp.


----------



## jerryrlitton

Anyway, here we were, last Sunday with Smack, and his 2 boys. It was her 1st time out on the water in ANYTHING let alone the Smacktanic. The winds were perfect, 15-20 with occasional higher gusts. We 1st met Smack with his 2 boys at a burger joint, great place for meet and greet.

After a fine meal we were introduced to the boat. A briefing for the new guys (very professional and I can appreciate that I may add) and we were off with his youngest at the helm. 
After clearing the break water and getting out in open water, the perfect conditions were apparent. SD being the considerate guy he is and knowing my lack of experience was hesitant in raising the head sail, I just said to go for it, he did and we took off like a cat with turpentine on it's butt. Somewhere en route SD asked me if I ever followed this thread. I replied in the negative, I had no idea what BFS were. I then proceeded to get educated. 


















Anyway this went on for almost 4 hour and I loved it. Now she wants a boat. The sailing day was perfect. When we tied the boat back up we were treated to a "Dark and Stormy". I drove back to Ft Worth with a smile on my face and plans to become a boat owner. SD, thank to people like you and your two boys the world is a better place. By the way, if anyone is wondering what SD looks like here he is...


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## zz4gta

lapworth said:


> Hey zz sorry I missed the race tried to give shout but guess I was a little to late or you crew filled up. Hope we catch up some time on the bay.


No problem, I kinda lost touch with sailnet for a while. Just got the boat back to St. Mary's river on Sunday morning. I'll be looking for crew to get her moved to solomon's island near screwpile if you're looking for a cruise. Turns out I was having trouble finding crew for DTB, and then had too many. And in the end, people backed out, and I had one no show, no call. He's off the crew list needless to say.

I do hope we can meet up at some point with good breeze and cheap beer.


----------



## CalebD

I'd recognize that face anywhere! 
Glad to hear that SD was able to get you guys afloat and that a good time was had by all.


----------



## smackdaddy

zz4gta said:


> No problem, I kinda lost touch with sailnet for a while. Just got the boat back to St. Mary's river on Sunday morning. I'll be looking for crew to get her moved to solomon's island near screwpile if you're looking for a cruise. Turns out I was having trouble finding crew for DTB, and then had too many. And in the end, people backed out, and I had one no show, no call. He's off the crew list needless to say.
> 
> I do hope we can meet up at some point with good breeze and cheap beer.


Hey ZZ - have you seen the new GR course near Solomons that was set up by KaptainKriz?

He's already run it and blew my leading time for the SC away by 11 minutes!

Here's the thread:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/racing/61800-global-big-freakin-regatta-possible-22.html#post612577

or check it out here:

*BFSGR*

You oughtta do a run dude!


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## smackdaddy

CalebD said:


> I'd recognize that face anywhere!
> Glad to hear that SD was able to get you guys afloat and that a good time was had by all.


It was a really great day. Wish you could have been here too dude!

BTW - do you think the black box makes me look fat?


----------



## chall03

...Black boxes are soooo the new Black  
Sounds like a good day out. Good on ya Smack. 

Dude, The Smack-Tanic has a bimini????
If you have a Bimini you don't...........


----------



## smackdaddy

chall03 said:


> ...Black boxes are soooo the new Black
> Sounds like a good day out. Good on ya Smack.
> 
> Dude, The Smack-Tanic has a bimini????
> If you have a Bimini you don't...........


Heh-heh. Busted!

Yeah it has a bimini AND a frozen margarita machine AND "ground effect" for when I'm crankin' Fitty Cent on the B&O...


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## smackdaddy

Haven't checked into this thread in a while. So who's out pulling down some big sails? Surely there's a newb or two out there crankin' it up a notch! How about a salt crankin' away in a stink?

Who's story is going to push the thread over the 100K mark? We're close!


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## smackdaddy

I think this definitely qualifies as a BFS from a very cool Big Freakin' Lake sailor...eMKay



eMKay said:


> 14kt winds with 15kt gusts, I kid you not, 6pm to 8pm, check the link...
> 
> NDBC - Station BUFN6
> 
> A perfect southwest wind to try the new main and the 10 year old, in nice shape 110 roller furling jib (no genoa, until today didn't know why he had a 110 made) What we found out was, the new main alone drives the boat very well with less weather helm than before. With both sails out we were just on the edge of being overpowered. Maybe 15% of the boats had both sails out today. So 10-15kts seems to be right, any more and we need either a reef or a couple rolls on the furler, something I completely forgot we could do :laugher until we were ready to put it away.
> 
> Anyway, in 14kt winds we were at hull speed with a new main and 110 jib, passing genoa or main only boats like they were standing still. We ran down a Newport 30, a Hunter 25.5, and a couple smaller boats with both sails up. The green Morgan 30 "Ranger" passed us easily, as did a Beneteau 31 "Innsfree" both boats we see regularly.
> 
> Revival sails closer to the wind than my O'day did, and does so with much less leeway, but still not as close as the better boats. She's pretty stiff but we were regularly heeled over to 25 degrees, most time at 15 or less. She does not track straight at all, lots of weather helm in gusts, I need to get the tuning right or have someone look at it for me.
> 
> Best day of sailing I've ever had though. I love the boat, just gotta work out the kinks and finish the deck


----------



## GeorgeB

Last weekend Mrs B and I had the opportunity to sail aboard "Por Favour", the Hobie 33 that is entered in this year's Pacific Cup. At only 4,300 pounds total displacement and flying the #2 we were definitely overpowered in our notorious (mid twenties) Bay winds and experienced the classic Smackdaddy BFS. Being so light, the boat labors to windward in heavy Bay chop and winds. We spent most of the time with a rail under, a good portion with the coach windows under and occasionally the cockpit coaming under! The boat is very sensitive to weight trim and going down low, to adjust the genoa, would cause the boat to roll down even further. MrsB swears that the boom touched once! She even went so far to say that she'll never complain again when Freya goes rail down. 

Downwind was another matter altogether. She will surf on anything. Catch a larger Bay wave (chop really) and it is surf city. On JAM only, she easily got to 11 kts. We could even chase down ferry wakes from the wrong side and surf those too. Their best speed so far since they bought the boat 18 months ago was 17.5 kts during the (in)famous 2010 Southern Straits race. They are hoping to break the sound barrier (20 kts) once they get down to the trades on the way to Kanehoe. Por Favour's crew is coming down this weekend and I'm hoping to do a little kite flying then.


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## maarty10

*big freaking sails*

If you would just use the language as the English had intended it to be used you wouldn't have to explain to "morons" what you're talking about.
Also, I am pretty sure, judging by your stories, that you are going to sink your boat and hopefully not get anyone except yourself killed.


----------



## smackdaddy

maarty10 said:


> If you would just use the language as the English had intended it to be used you wouldn't have to explain to "morons" what you're talking about.
> Also, I am pretty sure, judging by your stories, that you are going to sink your boat and hopefully not get anyone except yourself killed.


Heh-heh. That's funny.


----------



## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> Last weekend Mrs B and I had the opportunity to sail aboard "Por Favour", the Hobie 33 that is entered in this year's Pacific Cup. At only 4,300 pounds total displacement and flying the #2 we were definitely overpowered in our notorious (mid twenties) Bay winds and experienced the classic Smackdaddy BFS. Being so light, the boat labors to windward in heavy Bay chop and winds. We spent most of the time with a rail under, a good portion with the coach windows under and occasionally the cockpit coaming under! The boat is very sensitive to weight trim and going down low, to adjust the genoa, would cause the boat to roll down even further. MrsB swears that the boom touched once! She even went so far to say that she'll never complain again when Freya goes rail down.
> 
> Downwind was another matter altogether. She will surf on anything. Catch a larger Bay wave (chop really) and it is surf city. On JAM only, she easily got to 11 kts. We could even chase down ferry wakes from the wrong side and surf those too. Their best speed so far since they bought the boat 18 months ago was 17.5 kts during the (in)famous 2010 Southern Straits race. They are hoping to break the sound barrier (20 kts) once they get down to the trades on the way to Kanehoe. Por Favour's crew is coming down this weekend and I'm hoping to do a little kite flying then.


Holy crap dude! 17.5?!?!?! I've only gone that fast once - on a Corsair tri! That's impressive.

I looked up the boat online. What's the deal with the keel? Is it essentially a cb?










Looks fun.


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## smackdaddy

Well, well...the BFS thread just popped 100K. Looks like there are lots of big sailors out there after all!

Here's to you dudes! Huzzah!


----------



## Maxboatspeed

*Meannie Maarty*



maarty10 said:


> If you would just use the language as the English had intended it to be used you wouldn't have to explain to "morons" what you're talking about.
> Also, I am pretty sure, judging by your stories, that you are going to sink your boat and hopefully not get anyone except yourself killed.


Maarty,
I'm thinkn his story was pretty understandable. I wonder about your story. I feel your message is kinda negative. I guess that's your point?

Going fast on a Hobie 33 sounds cool. It sounds to me like the guy had a nice ride. I can see the excitement he felt - as someone new to performance (33ULDB) boats. I don't think the guy said that he was racing it to Hawaii?
Anyway, the comment hits me as mean & nasty.
AND - here's some stuff

that picture is of a drop keel H33. No, it's not a CB. The keel moves for trailoring. The bulb keel is not intended to be adjusted at sea.

The Hobie33 is (or was) a ULDB built in the day. Built to surf, plane, reach, and run. 
This boat is lite. They do ok upwind - if not overpowered, with rail meat. They will surf.
I'll save talking about boat stats.
Anyone planning to race a H33 to HA must know snit. I won't even try to say more.

Is this going doublehanded? Modified? (WT compartments). Who's racing it? How many?

Safe sailing and enjoy the ride. 
Max
PS who's gotta bring her home?


----------



## Maxboatspeed

Smakiddy -
nice with the forum. 
I'll give you the praise that you deserve for this cool forum.
It's cool with me that 1/2 the posts are from you.
I do enjoy checking this thread.
Max


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## smackdaddy

Thanks Maxbo. I think you nailed it above....it's just about the excitement and adventure of sailing. Period. When guys like GeorgeB, who has A LOT of serious experience sailing and racing, can still get crazy stoked from a big sail - THAT'S what it's all about. 

As for maarty's comment - it's no skin off my back. I've been dealing with cranky, naysaying dudes now for 2 years. There are a few people out there that just don't get it. And that's cool. Staying at the dock has its upsides I guess. It just ain't for me. 

That said, I'll just never understand why these guys feel the need to suck all the life out of sailing. Maybe they need a BFS Boozie.

As for half the posts being from me...most of those are me stealing the best sailing stories I come across from members here. Great sailing stories deserve to be enjoyed - and to never sink beneath the waves. You know, maarty, like my boat, the Smacktanic. Heh-heh.


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## DwayneSpeer

*Twas a dark and stormy night*

T'was a dark and stormy night (OK it wasn't stormy, but it sure as h*** was dark) when we were sailing down the Washington coast about 8 miles out from Gray's Harbor, making about 8 to 8.5 knots with the Genoa and main fully deployed. The First Mate had the helm and the Skipper and crewman were below trying to catch some sleep. The seas were about 2 feet atop a 8 foot swell and all was going well when the First Mate yelled to the top of her lungs for the Skipper to come up to the cockpit NOW! He jumped up and made haste as requested only to have the First Mate point towards a huge power boat (crabber) bearing down on them at an estimated 12 to 15 knots about 100 yards off of the port bow. The boat had just lit off all of its foredeck lights and prior to that was invisible to the First Mate.

The Skipper grabbed the wheel, turned off the autopilot, and spun the wheel to port, back winding the Genoa and gybing the main in less than two seconds. Hearing all the hubbub, the crewman scrambled up on deck also. We all watched in dismay as the crabber passed within a few yards without noticing.

Glad to be alive, we put the boat back on course and continued on our way; none of us sleeping for the rest of the night. Later we all had a list of things we should have done including calling the Coast Guard on the VHF to report the near miss but at the time we just glad to have survived.

Epilog: The First Mate has sworn she will never go off coast at night again.


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## jerryrlitton

maarty10 said:


> If you would just use the language as the English had intended it to be used you wouldn't have to explain to "morons" what you're talking about.
> Also, I am pretty sure, judging by your stories, that you are going to sink your boat and hopefully not get anyone except yourself killed.


I kinda (OK really) thought it was a good story. Maybe cuz I are a "Merican" (I arrived he as fast as I could)
Keep up the great work SD.

Jerry


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## GeorgeB

Smack, while I'm not sure that the H33 is officially classed as an ULDB, it certainly came from the "fast is fun" crowd in 1980's. It is trailered and meant to be dry sailed. The keel is of the dagger board variety and is winched up or down after the boat is launched giving it a draft of 5 ½ feet. It has a little (10 HP?) outboard that is removed from it's well and the hole filled in with a plug. This boat was bought specifically with the Pac Cup in mind. It was previously raced on the east coast and has a couple of Bermuda races under it's belt. They will race the Pac Cup with four crew divided into two watches and will hot bunk in two pipe berths. No standing headroom, no sink or flush plumbing. Built for speed, and knowing the crew, will be sailed like it was stolen. The USCG required a float plan and they estimated that their ETA at Kaneohe a half hour earlier than our second place finish in the '08 Pac Cup. There is another H33 doing the race but they will be in the double hand division. Por Favour's main competition will be a pair of Synergy 1000's and a J120.

During the 2010 Southern Straits, they touched spreaders to water once and John said that the water didn't get close to the companionway. While sailing rail under in the Bay was pretty exciting (and a bit unnerving for Mrs B.) It is way slow and with the short keel, a tremendous amount of leeway. As I said earlier, the boat was designed to go down wind very fast and it labors a bit on the windward legs. When racing seriously, they shift through the gears and are usually the first to reef (it is a frac boat). They sailed to the Southern Straits start line under second reef. They are rigged with a third reef and after that, they have a storm trysail and a storm jib on a inner forestay. I think they are bringing four spinnakers, two headsails and one main besides the storm sails. Because of the short handed crew, they have rigged the boat for double pole gybing which should allow them to race through the squalls without waking the off watch.

Am I supposed to use BBC English now? Do I need to start putting in an extra "u" in my spellings? Well, colour me red! As you might have guessed, English is my second language but I don't find too many people who speak my native Ebonic. Shall we meet half way and communicate in Esperanto in the future?<O


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## smackdaddy

A really great sail yesterday afternoon. We were racing the GR course - so I don't have pics, but it was great fun.

The winds were 15-20 with sustained gusts to 25 for about an hour. Lots of white caps, spray over the highside, really great sailing.

We had a lot of canvass up (full sail and 150) so it was a sporty ride, especially with the gusts. We're trying to dial in sail area and trim for the C27 in bigger winds...balancing for speed.

Anyone have any feedback for the C27 specifically? What's the sweet spot in terms of sail configuration for 20 knots?

The genny developed a vertical tear about a foot from the leach just over half-way up (it's an old sail) - but it's repairable.

Good times.


----------



## CalebD

Sounds like a nice sail Smack with decent wind.
Your 'sweet spot' question is a good one. Have you ever looked at a polar diagram (yes, that is what they are called) for the C27? I'm sure you can find them somewhere on the web as there were so many C27's built. The polar diagrams will basically tell you what your max. expected boat speed will be based on sail plan, and wind strength. Here is one for the C30: http://www.altendorff.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Catalina30-Polar.png just a bit too small to read.
A lot may depend on the type of keel on your C27 too. IIRC they come in a few flavors like 'shoal draft', full draft and perhaps even wing keel.
The kind of wind you described (15-20 w/gusts to 25) is about borderline time for putting in a reef in the main and/or furling in the jib a little on my Tartan 27' (full keel). The owners manual for my T27 suggests putting in a reef in the main at about 18 knots of wind. IIRC you have hank on jibs so you should experiment with trying a smaller jib and/or reefing the main while watching your GPS for your SOG. 
As the angle of heel increases most boats begin to actually lose forward speed and slip to leeward whereas a boat that is sailing flatter may be going faster and straighter. A few boats are designed to have more waterline length as they heel and actually go a bit faster when heeled way over but neither of our boats are built with that design feature.


----------



## smackdaddy

Cool - thanks Caleb. I've seen people talking about polars - so it will be good to actually learn a thing or two. My C27 is standard rig with a standard fin keel. So it's all very standard. It's just my sailing that is sub-standard.

Also, agreed on the reef at 25. She definitely needs one at that point. I'll also keep working the head sails like you say to find the right mix.

Damn this is fun!


----------



## scraph

I just got back in from my newest BFS. Baby steps...

I had delayed going out Tuesday due to thunderstorm warnings (going out of the jettis, not out sailing) ... no storms actually came through. Yesterday I was hearing the same garbage of the WX and so, with only a little bit of coaxing, decided to head out past the jettis and risk my first encounter with a storm. Of course ... there was no substantial storm, yet again.

What I did find was consistent 20kt winds and seas 3-4ft with an occassional 6ft breaking wave. At first I was actually steering the boat ... trying steer over the big boys as they came ... then I just locked the steering wheel and let her track a close reach. What an experience ... pounding along into the wind and waves in the dark of night.

I had this bright idea to anchor so that I could get some rest and maybe a bite to eat (I was single handing). I sailed in towards shore and let out 100ft anchor rode in 20ft of water. How ... unpleasant. Every wave was a breaking wave, the door below the sink wouldn't stay shut, the boat was pitching up and down and side to side ... I think I actually managed to sleep for about an hour.

I got up at 4:00a this morning and sailed a broad reach back to the inlet. It was great to see the sunrise but I would've prefered auto-pilot on that point of sail...


----------



## smackdaddy

Sweet scraph! I've not yet sailed in any significant wind at night - though I can't wait to. Man that sounds fun.

What was your sail configuration?


----------



## scraph

I have a full sloop rig. I was flying a 135 and my standard cruising main. The main was on it's second reef point since I set out anticipating storms. It was over reefed but I kept it in. I had set it up in the harbour and left it in since I wouldn't safely reef again in 3-4' singlehanding. The 135 was out all the way. I didn't get much power from the reefed main in the 20kts but I still had enough sail area for sail balance.

When I locked the steering wheel slightly to leeward and pulled in the main just a touch I was able to maintain 30-35 degrees for hours without touching the wheel once ... and that was pounding into seas about 30 degrees more off the windward bow. I had the jib furled somewhat before but found the boat tracked a straighter line through the seas with the added heel of full jib. When heeled it pointed more hull and less freeboard towards the seas so there was more rise and fall and much less rocking.


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## twinsdad

*The BFS to come*

Sometimes we just have to dream. I was supposed to have delivery of my new boat in mid-May - perfect for the Northeast season. Well... delays and such, I can now finally expect to get my boat in early August. Finally. My BFS will be sailing it either from Philadelphia or Barnegat Bay to Long Island Sound. May the sailing season begin!


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## smackdaddy

twins - hang in there dude. One BFS coming up. What are you getting?

scraph - that sounds like a magic sail dude. Very nice.


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## twinsdad

Thanks Smack. Getting a Seawind 1000XL - a 35 foot catamaran. Planning to do a lot of local cruising with the family.


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## smackdaddy

Holy crap - check out Bubb2's G-G-Grandad's BFSs.

I think the Easties are definitely taking the Cup this year:



bubb2 said:


> LACK of experance never stoped my great ,great grandfather
> 
> *Howard Blackburn* (1859 - 1932) was a Gloucester, Massachusetts fisherman, born in Nova Scotia. Despite losing his fingers at sea in 1883, he prospered as a Gloucester businessman. Yearning for adventure, he twice sailed single-handed across the Atlantic Ocean, overcoming his disability and setting record times for the crossing.
> </******>
> 
> *Howard Blackburn* was born in Nova Scotia in 1859. At the age of 18, he moved south to Massachusetts, seeking work as a fisherman, and became part of the Gloucester, Massachusetts fishing community.
> Blackburn first rose to fame in 1883. While he was fishing on the schooner _Grace L. Fears_, a sudden winter storm caught him and a dorymate unprepared while they were in their banks dory, leaving them separated from the schooner. Blackburn began to row for shore, despite the loss of his mittens; he knew his hands would freeze, so he kept them in the hooked position that would allow him to row. He tried to save one hand with a sock and thus worsened his condition by freezing his toes and yet not being able to save his fingers. The crewmate gave up and laid down in the dory and died on the second day. Blackburn carried the body to shore for a proper grave.
> After five days with virtually no food, water, or sleep, he made it to shore in Newfoundland; but his companion had died during the journey. Blackburn's hands were treated for frostbite, but could not be saved; he lost all his fingers, and many of his toes, and both thumbs to the first joint.
> Blackburn returned to Gloucester a hero, and with the help of the town, managed to establish a successful saloon. Not content with this, he organised an expedition to the Klondike to join the gold rush; rather than go overland, he and his group sailed there, via Cape Horn. Howard, after a disagreement with his partners left the group in San Francisco after a short trip to Portland, Oregon to buy lumber to help finance the trip, and returned home never having panned for gold.
> After the quest for gold failed, Blackburn turned his attention to a new challenge - to sail single-handed across the Atlantic Ocean. This had been done before, by Alfred "Centennial" Johnson in 1876, and Joshua Slocum had completed a single-handed circumnavigation in 1898; but for a man with no fingers to undertake such a voyage would be quite an accomplishment. He sailed from Gloucester in 1899, in the modified Gloucester Fishing Sloop, _Great Western_, and reached England after 62 days at sea.
> Returning to Gloucester, Blackburn continued to prosper as a businessman; but he still hankered for adventure. In 1901, he sailed to Portugal in the twenty-five-foot Gloucester Fishing sloop _Great Republic_, making the trip in 39 days. In 1903 he again set out alone, this time in the sailing dory _America_, but was defeated by bad weather. Blackburn also circumnavigated the Eastern United States by going down the Mississippi River and back up the Eastern Seaboard. "Great Republic" may be seen at the Cape Ann Museum, in Gloucester.
> Blackburn died in 1932; his funeral was attended by many of the people of Gloucester. He was buried in the Fishermen's Rest section of Beechgrove Cemetery.


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## Jeff_H

Those early singlehanders were really amazing guys. Bubb's quote mentions Alfred "Centenial" Johnson. Alfred Johnson was the first known man to do a single-handed transatlantic passage. He crossed from Gloucester, Mass to Liverpool in an open 20 foot dory, capsizing in a storm and still making it.

Quoting from Wikipedia, " When asked late in life why he had done it, he said "I made that trip because I was a damned fool, just as they said I was." Johnson's voyage was the first recorded single-handed crossing of the Atlantic, and perhaps the first major single-handed passage carried out in the spirit of adventure."

Then there was William Albert Andrews. (I aplogize for quoting from Wikipedia but I am a bit short of time), "William Albert Andrews of Beverley, Massachusetts, made several significant single-handed voyages, and instigated the first single-handed trans-Atlantic race. Andrews first crossed the Atlantic with his brother in a 19-foot (6 m) dory in 1878. He made an aborted attempt at a single-handed crossing in 1888, and then in 1891 he issued a challenge to any single-hander to race him across the ocean for a prize of $5,000. Josiah W. Lawlor, the son of a famous boat-builder, took up the challenge, and the two men built 15-foot (5 m) boats for the race. They set off from Crescent Beach near Boston on June 21, 1891. Andrews, in a highly unseaworthy boat, capsized several times and was finally picked up by a steamer; but Lawlor arrived at Coverack, Cornwall, on August 5, 1891."

But probably the closest to Ronnie of his day is Alain Gerbault who in the 1930's sailed a beat up old racing cutter, _"Firecrest_" across the Atlantic. Gerbault's was the classic "how not to do it" story, arriving in New York with no food or water and nearly totally destroyed sails. Yet, for all his goofiness, his was a hero's welcome in New York. He eventually did a circumnavigation and then spent the end of his life batting around the Pacific only to die in a Japanese internment camp during WWII, BFS indeed....


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## smackdaddy

Jeff_H said:


> Quoting from Wikipedia, " When asked late in life why he had done it, he said "I made that trip because I was a damned fool, just as they said I was." Johnson's voyage was the first recorded single-handed crossing of the Atlantic, and perhaps the first major single-handed passage *carried out in the spirit of adventure.*"


BFS indeed....


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## bubb2

*I am a lucky Man*

As many of you know I have had a health problem that has limited my sailing.

Well I went sailing today. Was out from 7pm to all most midnight. This is because I have a Lvad (heart pump) that maintains a constant speed and does not compensate for the heat of the day, and it has been hot here for the whole month of July.

This evening brought gusts into the mid 20's and the boat was returning mid to high 7's. I was very happy with the way the boat was preforming and was enjoying myself.

The lucky part was, My 13 year old son took me sailing. He handled every thing on the boat by himself. From backing out of the slip to raising sails to sail trim and keeping the boat on course like it was on a rail. I could not have been more proud of the way my son was handling the boat.

When it came time to come back into the marina he asked me to take the wheel and point her into the wind so he could bring the Main sail down and pack into the stack pack. We were in irons and he was on the cabin top bringing down the sail when he saw that I was having trouble starting the Yanmar. I keep pushing the button but nothing was happening. I told my son we have a problem. He said Dad you may want to turn the key on.

I told him thank you for taking me sailing. He said. Dad I needed the practice, we have a big sail coming up at the end of Aug. Which we do! I don't think it is going to long before he asks for the keys to take the boat out alone.:laugher


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## Izzy1414

Now that is a sweet BFS, Bubb. Good on you two!!



bubb2 said:


> I don't think it is going to long before he asks for the keys to take the boat out alone.:laugher


Sounds like it might be smart to put him in charge of the keys anyway!


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## sailordave

*Chesapeake Bay Sun, 7/25*

Okay, I've pretty much ignored this thread b/c, well I just didn't care. Even though I've done a few "BFS". Just never thought I needed to talk about them.

Yesterday however we were out in the club's C320 w/ another couple (she had never sailed, he only a couple of times) and it was a nice day, wind filled in to 12,13 knots. We were south of Chesapeake Beach and could see a dark cloud over Herrington Harbor South so I said let's just go back down south a mile or so and hang until it blows across the Bay. Well, it got a little darker and darker and then about 20 min. later some chick got on Ch16 and started SCREAMING almost incoherently about MAYDAY, Bad storm, HHS. With 60 seconds you could see the squall coming down the bay and it was on us. We were on Stbd heading NW at the time and we got blown down rail under. Struggled to get control of the jib, dropped the main enough to get the reef in, started the engine. Took some doing but we FINALLY tacked which made me feel a lot better b/c now I had lots of sea room and new the squall would blow over long before we'd get blown across the Bay.

Thing was this storm moved NW to SSE; not typical of most squalls we see here. I watched the replay on the weather when we got home.

Then the main ripped about half way up from the leech about 4-5' fwd toward the luff. I just ignored it and kept forereaching w/ the small amount of jib and 2K rpms on the engine. Found the GPS and it said we were doing just over 2 knots. Okay, so this is cool and other than the occasional REALLY big wave (6') that knocked us it wasn't too bad. Water was bathwater warm. GF got the lifejackets out for everyone and my gloves which was too little too late as my hands already had burns on them (ouch, they hurt today!) and took the wheel when I needed to do something.

To their credit the young couple w/ us didn't freak out, he even thought it was COOL! After 40 min. it blew through and we motorsailed in. A couple of other boats were going in also. One of them said he saw 52 knot gusts. 
I asked the (nervous wreck looking) woman on a SAILTIME boat that was tying up what she saw; she said 45 and quit looking after that!

Shoot we were the smallest boat out there of the boats I saw afterwards. 
Not something I WANT to repeat but it wasn't terrible. Cleaned up the mess below from stuff getting thrown and the residue of GF's lunch uke and it was all good. (First time she's ever puked w/ me. ) Untangled the jib sheets which had knotted themselves a bit. Took the sail off to see if it's repairable or not. IT was due to be replaced this winter so I'm not upset about that. Just kicking myself for not checking the weather while we were out there. But then hot summer days ALWAYS have the possibility of T'storms.

Pisser was Thomas Point Light, just 12-14 miles north never got it. I checked and the highest they had was gust to 16. WTH?

Cove point to the south had gusts in the mid 40's. 
Us? We got the brunt of it all. 
It's all good. And the other couple thought it was fun.


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## smackdaddy

Bubb - that was freakin' awesome! Seriously. You're are indeed a lucky man. Tell Michael hi for us.

Dave - sweet BFS dude! Especially like the bonding moment over the "hurl". Nice. See - it's all good!

Seems to be quite a few good storm stories out there right now. Bring 'em on over...or I will!


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## sailordave

smackdaddy said:


> Dave - sweet BFS dude! Especially like the bonding moment over the "hurl". Nice. See - it's all good!


There was no BONDING to it. She cleaned it all up! I was busy topsides. 
Found out afterwards that she had also tossed breakfast about 10 min. after lunch went but that was over the leeward rail while I was up fwd untying the mess of a jib sheet.


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## captbillc

bubb2-------that's a great story! a son to be proud of !


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## MarioG

Hey Bubba sounds like you have a fine young man there, my hat is off to him.


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## twinsdad

For me the BFS was to finally get my boat delivered. Just bought a new Seawind 1000XL catamaran, and after much delay (don't get me started) the boat finally arrived. My friend and I met the dealer at Barnegat Bay, NJ where he had motored it from Philadelphia (where it entered the country from Australia). Dealer had us meet him at noon this past Monday. We were ready to go (with still more work to do enroute) at 8:30PM. We motored from Brick, NJ to Manasquan inlet. Once out in the ocean, the sails went up for the first time. We were basically on a run as we headed towards the Port of NY. At first the winds were pretty light and we were only going 3-5kts. 

We weren't in any rush since we knew we were going to wait for the right entry point to head to Hellgate. Anyway, the wind starts picking up after about 3 hours and the boat starts doing about 7.5 kts with its smallish jib and the main (the screacher wasn't set up yet - don't ask). We reached the beginning of the channels to the Port of NY, just outside of Sandy Hook, at about 2AM. Being chickens (some would say prudent) we decided to drop the sails and motor since it was night and none of us was that familiar with the channels. Chose an outside channel to avoid some of the shipping traffic and anchored off Staten Island right near the Verrazano Bridge for about 2 hours or so (again trying to time it right for hellgate). My friend and I emphasized to the dealer how important it was not to hit Hellgate at the wrong time. So at about 8AM on Tuesday we fired up the engines (no wind anyway) and headed for the Verrazano. We had timed the current to be with us up the East River and at half throttle we were doing 7.5-8kts. So naturally, after talking up the currents in Hellgate, it was as calm as glass as we hit it just before slack tide. By 2PM, we were on the mooring for the first time in CT.

So why is this a BFS? Because finally the sailing season has started, and its always a BFS in my mind when you sail in open water at night. Nothing like it. Here's to hoping for an extra long season this year!


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## smackdaddy

Dude that definitely rates! Congrats on the new boat and its inaugural BFS. 

I Googled it. Looks like a very nice ride. Pics soon....got it?


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## CalebD

twinsdad,
Congrats on the new cat!
Coming up the East River even if it is not for the first time is pretty much always a BFD ('Bedford Fire Department') as well as a BFS in my book!
Have fun with your double hulled thingy!
Enjoy.


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## twinsdad

Smack, I'm a little technology challenged, but I will try to figure out how to get a picture on this. Thanks to you and Caleb for the good wishes. Caleb, where in NYC are you? Lived there many, many years pre-kids.


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## smackdaddy

I just couldn't let this killer sequence slip beneath the waves. One of my favorite salts around here in some crazy conditions....(click the arrow beside Oma's name to jump to the thread)



Omatako said:


> It always amazes me how hard it is to get good pictures of scary conditions - they always look so benign.
> 
> The wave seen ahead had just passed under us without any scary stuff.
> 
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> 
> The next one picks us up and the boat starts to accelerate . . .
> 
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> 
> Then it starts to surf
> 
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> Then vibrations as we achieve hull speed
> 
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> 
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> and beyond
> 
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> 
> These were taken in the late afternoon when the wind speed was at about 35kn, wave heights about 15 to 18 ft. During the next 10 hours and in the total darkness of a stormy night at sea, the wind went to 75 - 80 knots, wave heights went to about 30 - 35 ft (we never knew that until the next morning's light). The canopy and frame that are seen in the pics was ripped off the boat and was lost into the sea.
> 
> About 450nm west of Raratonga, just about exactly 3 years ago.


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## zeehag

yipes!! wow !! looks like fun!!!! big water!!!! big wind!!!!...here is a lil boat porn --with big freeking sails....have fun!!


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## Maxboatspeed

*I love boat porn*

Thanks for the awesome porn! What is that boat? I can guess, but would love to know the yr., name, event!
Lotta SA, in the day!
When men were men!
Nice photo! I like this thread. smackdiddlydaddy thanks for your part.
Max


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## zeehag

i dont know the name of the boat, but gaff rigged schooners turn me into melted butter....i love them--nothing as elegant or as inspiring as a gaff rigged schooner with a bone in her teeth....almost better than chocolate......i do know this is a classic pic--have seen it in many places...even on the ericson i bought 6 yrs ago in the saloon-seems a shared dream of many--beautiful boats...


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## jaschrumpf

Does that pic make anyone else think of woman whose implants are WAY too large?


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## zeehag

aaaah--but the boats stuff isnt fluff nor fakery--is all being used--see her bow wave---she has a bone in her teeth--flying!!! closest thing to planing a heavy displacement boat can get---incredible!!

the implant in a fake val gal is not functional and after time will show as droplets/cysts on her forehead. the sailboat is beautiful and the fake boobs are kinda fake looking arent they!

it makes me think that if there were a sudden squall it is fly or die....incredible what was done with sails in the past! it took balls of brass to sail them like this. yes--REAL men.


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## CalebD

I believe that is what was called 'crowding on all canvas'. That looks more like a 'cloud' of sails racing across an ocean. 
And yes, melted buter.
Real sailors, old school, but true.
There are nearly 9 or 10 sails flying at the same time.


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## craigtoo

*BFS on Sunday - Chesapeake Bay!*

North of Bay Bridge heading from Bodkin Creek to Magothy river.

Here is the wind data from Thomas Point Light house for the time this photo was taken. The last column is in m/s ... roughly speaking 11 m/s = 24 mph. It was dead out of the South.

So, not a HUGE BFS... but a fun one to be singlehanding in. I was feeling a little tired from a bad headcold so that's why I reefed the jib down as well as the main. I was worried that I'd have to tack back and I set my sails before I was out on the bay. Yes. I am a 'Nancy'...  

Date Time hdg m/s 
2010 08 22 11 40 184 10.8 
2010 08 22 11 30 179 10.8 
2010 08 22 11 20 179 10.3 
2010 08 22 11 10 178 10.3 
2010 08 22 11 00 178 10.8 
2010 08 22 10 50 176 11.8 
2010 08 22 10 40 175 11.3 
2010 08 22 10 30 176 11.3 
2010 08 22 10 20 175 10.8 
2010 08 22 10 10 174 10.8 
2010 08 22 10 00 174 10.8 
2010 08 22 09 50 173 11.3 
2010 08 22 09 40 172 10.8 
2010 08 22 09 30 168 10.8 
2010 08 22 09 20 169 9.8

...and a pic:


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## smackdaddy

Dude - that is freakin' BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!! Holy crap!!!!!! Fine job Mr. Too.

Pardon me a moment...I'm getting a little weepy.


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## CalebD

Yes, Mr. Nancy, the Bay does get a little boisterous with that much wind on it. I'd also have reefed a bit as you did. You can call me Nancy whenever you like as bouncy makes me antsy. The weather looks a little verklempt too.

Nice pic though.


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## twinsdad

This is less a BFS, than one of those "stuff happens" stories. I would be interested in constructive advice on things I might have done differently (and I'm man enough to even take any snide remarks that someone feels compelled to give). I was sailing our 35 ft catamaran from Branford, CT to Old Greenwich, CT. My crew was my wife and 9 year old twin daughters. For the record, I am the only one with sailing experience.

We left Sunday morning with about 10kt winds off the port stern quarter. I decided to motor as we wanted to get back (this was the end of a 5 day trip). Over time, the winds picked up so I raised the main and the small jib. I knew that there was a forecast of thundershowers so I deliberately kept the sail plan on the smaller side. Apparent winds kept rising, eventually getting to the 15-18kts area. I have to say the cat really purrs in those conditions as we were cruising at 7-8.5kts - and my wife and kids were playing games on the settee table (which is same level as cockpit).

Anyway, as we approached Noroton (just before Stamford for those of you from other parts), I heard something, looked back and saw that the stern of the dinghy was off the davit and bouncing in the water. To make matters worse, the dinghy had flipped and was dragging in the water. My first reaction was to drop the mainsail (thank god for lazy jacks), then roll in the jib, and turn the engines on. Because of the high winds I was very lucky that we were far enough from any hazards that we could focus on the dinghy. The bad news was the water was too deep (80 ft or so) to contemplate anchoring.

I lowered the bow davit (starboard side) so as not to have too much pressure and break it and then detached the stern line (which I use to keep the boat from bouncing around while on the davit). My wife and I got on the starboard swim platform. We tried to flip it back over but couldn't, so we pulled the dinghy as far up the swim platform as we could and secured it with a couple of lines.

From there, we motored at medium speed back to our mooring (about 2 hrs) so as not to aggravate the dinghy situation. I might of motored slower, but the clouds were becoming ominous and the Coast Guard was issuing advisories on channel 16 about pockets of very rough squalls. Upon getting to the mooring, I went in the water and unclipped the port davit line (which was attached- but a shackle had broken off so it was off the davit arm). I got back on the boat and reconfigured the starboard davit line so we could pull the dinghy up and flip her back over. I then secured it back on the boat. Unfortunately, my wife gave me as much help as she could but she had a bad knee and bruised a rib while trying to help with the davit lines.

Anyway, other than my wife's bruised rib, no injuries so all is OK. I'm not so sure about the dinghy engine. It was dragged through salt water for a couple of hours, lost its top, and has been exposed to the rain since then. I am assuming it is a goner, is that correct? I would be real interested to hear how others would have handled the situation and what you think I should have done differently. I made a judgement call that we did not need to call for help, do you folks think that was appropriate or a mistake? Appreciate any thoughts on this.


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## smackdaddy

I tried to get out yesterday for the Sail with Courtney - but there was absolutely no wind. Sailflow promised some sweet stuff today and it was spot on. Steady 15 with many gusts to 25. I took a newbie and his wife out for their second sail ever - and we had a freakin' blast. I also had a first today - which was putting in a single reef while under sail (I've always started the motor when it started getting stinky to play it safe). It was easy! Very cool.

The best part of the day though was flying the "SWC" flag - and the pretty amazing surprises that came with it. See for yourself...





































How about that rainbow. Thanks for the BFS Courtney.


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## smackdaddy

twinsdad said:


> I'm not so sure about the dinghy engine. It was dragged through salt water for a couple of hours, lost its top, and has been exposed to the rain since then. I am assuming it is a goner, is that correct? I would be real interested to hear how others would have handled the situation and what you think I should have done differently. I made a judgement call that we did not need to call for help, do you folks think that was appropriate or a mistake? Appreciate any thoughts on this.


Twins - I can't see any big "mistakes" in your story. I think you were right not to call for help on this one. You got everything and everyone back in one piece - a wet piece - but one piece nonetheless. How did the dinghy part with the davit? Something break?

I don't know about the motor. Did you get feedback on that? I'd be interested to know if it was salvageable.


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## craigtoo

Sweet Post Smackles! Nice shots of the SWC BFS.


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## smackdaddy

Thanks dude. Man that rainbow was VERY cool - as were the beams as the sun was going down. Pretty magical.


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## bubb2

Smack, all i can say is thank you!

Michael and Carrie and I sailed across lake Mich and back with Tim. Courtney just for the fun of it, threw some snot at us also.


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## smackdaddy

bubb2 said:


> Smack, all i can say is thank you!
> 
> Michael and Carrie and I sailed across lack Mich and back with Tim. Courtney just for the fun of it, threw some snot at us also.


Heh-heh. SWEET! She wanted to keep you guys dancing! I wish I could have been there, dude.

Got pics?


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## bubb2

smackdaddy said:


> Got pics?


Think black. Think black and wet. Think black and wet and falling off 6 foot waves. Think black and wet and falling off of 6 foot waves that you couldn't see because it was black. Think black and wet and falling off 6 foot waves you couldn't see and listening to Carrie puke. Now you got your picture!:laugher  :laugher


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## smackdaddy

Heh-heh. The mental image is more than enough. Thanks.

(I still wish I could have been with you guys!)


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## blt2ski

TMI Bubb! especially theukepart!LOL

Found out a lady in my YC had some biopsy's over the last week, needs to go in for surgery next week. They were going to take part in a prosuit race to and from a port north of us for the cruise, Now hope they make it and can play some golf sunday before the fun.....yeah right! starts! Sounds like David and I need to get something going for next year. We have been talking about some kind of local BC regatta fund raiser.........hmmmmmm......

marty


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## sailingdog

LOL... Carrie's right, you're a mean old man Mike... 


bubb2 said:


> Think black. Think black and wet. Think black and wet and falling off 6 foot waves. Think black and wet and falling off of 6 foot waves that you couldn't see because it was black. Think black and wet and falling off 6 foot waves you couldn't see and listening to Carrie puke. Now you got your picture!:laugher  :laugher


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## craigtoo

Nah,
He's just old.


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## twinsdad

Smack, I'm not sure why the shackle to the davit broke or came loose. Nonetheless, it did. Appreciate your feedback. I haven't had time to bring the engine in, but I will let you know whether it was salvagable. Fortunately, last weekend's sailing was a little less eventful.


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## smackdaddy

Okay - time to post 'em if you got 'em.










The "2010 BFS Cup" is currently being spit polished by an 80-year-old Chinese woman in preparation for this year's competition...which is coming up soon.

Thus far it's been the Eurpies (2008) and the Easties (2009) pulling down the most coveted bling in the world. Who's it gonna be this year?

The Poll goes up in a few weeks - so stop jackin' around and sail big!


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## FlyNavy

*Sure to win the Cup*

The Battle of Lake Erie:

At dawn on the morning of September 10, 1813, a lookout spotted six vessels to the northwest past Rattlesnake Island. Immediately Master Commandant Oliver Hazard Perry - Commodore of the United States fleet on Lake Erie issued a flurry of orders and made preparations to sail forth to engage the British. Perry had been waiting for this moment for a long time. He had arrived at Erie, Pennsylvania in late March and under his supervision a flotilla of ships had been constructed in the wilderness. Though encountering many frustrations in the attempt to arm, man, and equip his fleet, Perry's perseverance paid off when on August 12, 1813 his tiny fleet sailed for western Lake Erie. Perry rendezvoused with General William Henry Harrison at Sandusky Bay, and following discussions concerning the upcoming campaign the commanders selected Put-in-Bay harbor for the American naval base. From this strategic location Perry could observe British fleet movements, while at the same time train his crews and wait for Robert Heriott Barclay's squadron.

The British, after maintaining naval control over Lake Erie for more than a year, were now experiencing difficulties. With Perry's fleet on the lake their naval force was outnumbered, but more importantly the water supply route from Fort Malden to Port Dover had been severed; the British faced the unhappy choice to either fight, or to abandon Fort Malden and the Old Northwest. In early September construction of the new British flagship - the Detroit - was completed, and with this additional strength they opted to fight. On the afternoon of September 9, with their ships manned mostly by poorly trained British soldiers, Canadian militia, and provincial mariners, the British ships floated down the Detroit River and into western Lake Erie.

The British squadron consisted of six ships with sixty-three cannons, while the American flotilla comprised nine vessels and fifty-four guns. The British were armed mostly with long guns, the traditional naval weapon which could throw a cannonball approximately one mile, accurately to about one-half mile. The American ships were armed primarily with carronades. A carronade possessed numerous advantages over the more traditional weapon, but the stubby-barreled cannon had less than half the range of a long gun. Thus for Perry to make effective tactical use of his flotilla it would be necessary to fight at short range, where his heavy carronades would confer firepower superiority. But to close within carronade range Perry would first need the wind at his back.

When the squadron sailed from Put-in-Bay harbor at 7:00 a.m. the American vessels were steering west-northwest; the wind was blowing from the west-southwest, according the weather gauge to the British. For more than two hours Perry clawed to windward, repeatedly tacking in an effort to weather Rattlesnake Island, but with no success. If Barclay should maintain the weather gauge he could heave-to outside carronade range and pound the American flotilla into submission piecemeal, whereas Perry would be unable to close within range for his carronades. The frustrated commodore conceded to mother nature at 10:00 a.m., issuing orders to turn his fleet in the opposite direction. But before the order could be executed the wind suddenly shifted and blew from the southeast, placing the wind directly behind the Americans and bestowing upon Perry the critical weather gauge advantage.

Perry's opponent, Commander Robert Heriott Barclay, was an experienced Royal Navy officer who had fought with Lord Nelson at Trafalgar in 1805, and two years later he lost an arm fighting the French. Barclay's options did not alter when the wind shifted, so the Scotsman pointed his bowsprits to the westward, clewed-up his sails and hove to in line of battle.

With the wind at his back and the British battle line finally revealed, Perry made his own tactical adjustments. The Schooners Ariel and Scorpion were placed off the flagship's weather bow to engage the first British vessel and to prevent the enemy from raking his fleet. The Lawrence, a 20-gun brig serving as Perry's flagship, was third in line and would engage the Detroit, Barclay's 19-gun flagship. Next in line floated the Caledonia, a small brig with only three guns. Fifth in the American line of battle was the Niagara, Perry's other 20-gun brig and the Lawrence's sistership.
The Niagara, captained by Master Commandant Jesse Elliott, would engage the 17-gun Queen Charlotte, the second largest British ship. Lastly came the smaller schooners and sloop; these would engage the smaller British vessels.

Just before the engagement opened Perry hoisted his battle flag to the flagship's main truck. The large navy blue banner was emblazoned with the crudely inscribed words, "DONT GIVE UP THE SHIP". For his battle slogan Perry used the dying words of Captain James Lawrence, a friend of the commodore who was killed on June 1, 1813. Perry's flagship was named for the fallen Lawrence, and the dead hero's inspiring words clearly indicated Perry's determination to prevail.
At 11:45 a.m. the Detroit fired the first shot at extreme range, a 24-pounder that splashed harmlessly near the Lawrence. A few minutes later a second 24-pounder was fired, but this time the heavy ball punched through the bulwarks of the Lawrence and flying splinters killed and wounded American sailors. The Lawrence's carronades were still far out of range, so Perry issued orders to the Scorpion, with one long 24-pounder, and the Ariel, with four long 12-pounders, to open fire. For the next thirty minutes Perry struggled to close within range, during which time the Lawrence was forced to pass almost the entire British battle line, suffering punishment all the way.

Another problem for Perry was the small gunboats bringing up the rear of his battle line. Because the wind was light the little schooners and sloop fell behind early, and even with all sail set and sweeps working, when the battle opened they were still two miles astern and temporarily out of the fray.

At 12:15 p.m. Perry fetched up within range, luffing his flagship to bring her starboard guns to bear. When the Lawrence loosed her broadside the heavy 32-pounders crashed into the British ships; as soon as the Niagara moved in the advantage would rest with the Americans. The commodore peered astern, expecting to see the Niagara edging in toward the Queen Charlotte, but instead of closing, Perry was shocked to note that Jesse Elliott had brailed the Niagara's jib and backed her main topsail, a tactic which held the Niagara dead in the water.

Elliott's actions were somewhat justified initially. The Caledonia, directly ahead of the Niagara, also shortened sail. The Caledonia's commander, facing the Queen Charlotte's vastly superior broadside, wisely decided to stand off and not futilely jeopardize his vessel. Since one of Elliott's two procedural directives dictated that he maintain his position in line, Perry's second-in-command was simply following his superior's orders. Elliott opened with the Niagara's 12-pounder bow chaser, which in his current position astern of the Caledonia was the only gun able to bear.

As the battle progressed the Caledonia continued to hesitate, so Elliott decided to range in front of the smaller brig. The Niagara's captain displayed initiative by abandoning the rigid line-of-battle tactic, justifiably disregarding one of his superior's orders. Having made his move Elliott could now follow Perry's second specific order, to engage his designated adversary at close range - the Niagara's pre-ordained opponent was the Queen Charlotte. But instead of closing with the British line Elliott eased the Niagara to windward, angling slightly away from the enemy ships. The reason for Elliott's questionable movement is still being debated, but regardless of motive the Niagara's carronades, almost forty percent of Perry's total broadside strength, sat indolently out of range.

With the Niagara lingering to windward the Queen Charlotte's guns were rendered useless. The commander of the second largest British vessel, possibly not understanding his adversary's move but anxious to bring his guns to bear, allowed his vessel to pay off and glide forward of the General Hunter, where she could assist the Detroit against the Lawrence. Practically ignoring the smaller American support vessels, the Detroit, Queen Charlotte, and General Hunter focused their broadsides, pounding the Lawrence while the Niagara remained a spectator. Fighting desperately the American flagship inflicted considerable damage upon the British, but the Lawrence was overwhelmed by superior firepower. By 2:30 p.m. the flagship was a floating wreck; every gun on her engaged side was disabled and four of every five men fit for duty were either killed or wounded. Perry was facing the dismal prospect of surrender.

Then, as he gazed across to the Niagara, still out of range and relatively undamaged, the commodore made a fateful decision. Collecting four unwounded men Perry manned the flagship's first cutter and rowed through a hail of shot to the Niagara. Miraculously Perry and his boat crew reached the Niagara unscathed.

Following a brief conversation the flotilla commander dispatched Elliott in the same small boat to hurry along the lagging gunboats. Perry then prepared the Niagara for immediate action, put the helm up, and sailed toward the British line.

The British, though they had pounded the Lawrence into a crippled hulk, had suffered terribly. During the engagement Barclay was severely wounded, plus the captain and first lieutenant of every British vessel was incapacitated. The English fleet was now commanded by junior officers - brave men, but with little or no experience maneuvering ships in the chaos of combat. When they observed the Niagara bearing down on their line the British attempted to wear ship - to turn their vessels around to bring the unused starboard broadsides to bear. Orders were issued, but amidst the tumult of battle the battered Detroit and Queen Charlotte collided, becoming helplessly entangled.

Taking full advantage of the enemy blunder, Perry steered the Niagara through the jumbled British battle line. Unleashing both broadsides, the American commodore ravaged the vulnerable British ships. As the Niagara pressed through the British line Perry backed the maintop sail, holding the Niagara stationary while her belching carronades decimated the enemy decks. The wind had also picked up by this time, allowing the sluggish gunboats to rush forward and rake the enemy from astern.

A few minutes after 3:00 p.m. the British bowed to the inevitable, the four largest vessels surrendering one by one. The gunboats Chippawa and Little Belt sheered off and tried to escape, but they were tracked down and snared by the Scorpion and Trippe. The entire British fleet had been captured. The vessels anchored and hasty repairs were underway near West Sister Island when Perry composed his now famous message to William Henry Harrison. Scrawled in pencil on the back of an old envelope, Perry wrote,

"Dear General:
We have met the enemy and they are ours. Two ships, two brigs, one schooner and one sloop. 
Yours with great respect and esteem,
O.H. Perry".

The Battle of Lake Erie proved one of the most resounding triumphs of the War of 1812. The victory secured control of the lake, forcing the British to abandon Fort Malden and retreat up the Thames River. Harrison's army pursued, decisively defeating the small British army and its allied Indian force on October 5, 1813 at the Battle of the Thames. And later, during the peace talks, the dual victories of Lake Erie and the Thames insured that the states of Ohio and Michigan would remain the sovereign territory of the United States of America.


----------



## smackdaddy

Meh. Perry was a chump. He sailed on a lake.

Next.


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## blt2ski

Smacky,

Do you have your plane ticket. BFS 18 days and counting.................


----------



## craigtoo

Is it 17 yet? or was your post after midnight?


----------



## blt2ski

its 17 now, post was before midnight, pacific, so it might have been 17 when I posted, if you are in europe, right coast NA............oh yeah and 2 hrs or there abouts!


----------



## smackdaddy

blt2ski said:


> Smacky,
> 
> Do you have your plane ticket. BFS 18 days and counting.................


Dude, I seriously wish I could. Business has picked up so maybe I can go back to my jet-setting ways in a few months.

This work crap sucks. I need to galavant and figurehead and let everyone else do the actual work.


----------



## smackdaddy

Fairly respectable for a multi...


----------



## smackdaddy

Do you think these guys get a break on the slip fees since the entrance to the marina is a little dicey?






(Dude at the mast...insane.)


----------



## smackdaddy

And this just looks freakin' fun!!!


----------



## St Anna

Hey Smacker,
the cat coming ove the bar is the Southport seaway - our back yard! He used up a few of his cats 9 lives - and was skilled or lucky he did not broach. You know that old saying that the _________ of the act is proportional to the number of people watching..

The east coast of Australia has a number of bar crossings. Southport is considered a 'seaway', not a bar and is the safest.

NSW has some very dangerous ones.

We have surfed in over the Wide Bay Bar in the last boat, a 36' mono. One swell, which broke and we surfed it for half a mile. I kept the nose head on, to stop any chance of broaching. It was interesting. The swells were about 3-4m which is just a tad bigger than the ones in your 2nd vid. The 2nd vid - I saw a gn beacon and a number of surfers - not good for the blood pressure. I reckon he could have munched a board rider towards the end.


Lake sailing dont have swells or bar crossings - I think I might find a big lake.


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## smackdaddy

That whole bar crossing thing is insane. It gives me indigestion just thinking about it.

I get all nervous when my ob dies in the fairway. Sounds like I might need to HTHU!


----------



## craigtoo

smackdaddy said:


> Do you think these guys get a break on the slip fees since the entrance to the marina is a little dicey?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Dude at the mast...insane.)


Dude 1: Smoke this.... yeah.. I'm gonna go stand at the mast.

Dude 2: Think we should take the Bimini down?

Dude 1: Nah, you might get a sunburn.


----------



## GeorgeB

Always a bit disconcerting when crossing the reef at Half Moon Bay and you look to the north and see a surfer at Mavericks riding the same wave you’re coming in on. Cowabunga dude!


----------



## St Anna

smackdaddy said:


> That whole bar crossing thing is insane. It gives me indigestion just thinking about it.
> 
> I get all nervous when my ob dies in the fairway. Sounds like I might need to HTHU!


Smacky,
Its part of cruising. SOmething you can learn - reading the surf as a board rider goes a long way towards this. There are courses on the Gold Coast for people to learn how to cross the seaway, which you saw in a less than ideal way. The crossings can be glass calm. Go over at dead high tide = fat swells, plenty of water. Dont think about it as the tide ebbs (as cat sailor did) or wind against tide. When in doubt - dont cross. He could wait until dead high tide or dead low, (there is enough water to cross at low water). Alternatively, he could sail on to Mooloolaba (where I had some fun getting into a few weeks ago)


----------



## St Anna

GeorgeB said:


> Always a bit disconcerting when crossing the reef at Half Moon Bay and you look to the north and see a surfer at Mavericks riding the same wave you're coming in on. Cowabunga dude!


Hey George, I hear you ride a 34' malibu (with a catalina sticker on it)


----------



## painkiller

craigtoo said:


> Dude 1: Smoke this.... yeah.. I'm gonna go stand at the mast.
> 
> Dude 2: Think we should take the Bimini down?
> 
> Dude 1: Nah, you might get a sunburn.


Dude 2: Should we wait until Dude 3 is off the crapper?

Dude 1: Whose week is it to clean the head?

Dude 2: Mine.

Dude 1: Then nah.


----------



## St Anna

painkiller said:


> Dude 2: Should we wait until Dude 3 is off the crapper?
> 
> Dude 1: Whose week is it to clean the head?
> 
> Dude 2: Mine.
> 
> Dude 1: Then nah.


I think this is the most intelligent thing you have said. [insert pre-requisite smiley  ]


----------



## Maxboatspeed

*Thanks Smack*



smackdaddy said:


> And this just looks freakin' fun!!!


Thanks Smackdaddy for the vids. The Hobie guys are cool.
The Cruisers are great examples of guys making bad decisions and getting away with it.
Lucky. Not smart.
Safe sailing.
Max


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## smackdaddy

Okay, so I'm reading the book: "Adrift" by Steven Callahan, who spent 76 days lost at sea in a six-man life raft with very, very little in the way of provisions.

I'm at the point in the book where he's 23 days in. And I come across this...



> In fact, I sometimes wonder if one of the major reasons for ocean racing and voyaging is to push one's self and one's boat just past the edge, watch things fail, and then somehow come up with a solution. In many ways, having a jury rig succeed is often more gratifying than making a pleasant and uneventful passage or even winning a race. Rising to the challenge is a common thread that runs through a vast wardrobe of sea stories.


This from a guy who spends 2-1/2 months in a tiny rubber raft with nothing but a solar still and a spear gun...the latter of which just broke leading to the above passage.

Interesting perspective.


----------



## smackdaddy

Maxboatspeed said:


> Thanks Smackdaddy for the vids. The Hobie guys are cool.
> The Cruisers are great examples of guys making bad decisions and getting away with it.
> Lucky. Not smart.
> Safe sailing.
> Max


No worries Max. Yeah, definitely decisions I'd hope not to make.

But, I do find that video of the mono at Point Panic very interesting when considering heavy weather tactics. That's, what, a 12'-15' HEAVILY breaking wave. Taking it bow on, they look to be in fairly good shape.

What would happen if that were to hit them astern? Just more stuff to ponder on the whole drogue vs. para-anchor debate.

Regardless, that's one tough boat.


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## Maxboatspeed

Smackdidly,

Ya, the mono is doin fine. I don't know the "bar" or what his deal was. Probably those 2 breakers were the worst of his outbound crossing.
I wanted to make the point that bar crossings (some places) have... Uh.. considerations. It looked to me like maybe the guy got where he wasn't comfortable? It looks like a snitty time to be outbound?
The multi guy crossed knowing it was snitty and disregarded warnings - to keep his schedule? He made it, and may even be as badarse as he thinks he is. I don't know.
Both cool vids. Thanks 

Check out Steve Calahan's designs, after you read the book. Interesting guy.
I can't come up with any BFS lately. Sorry. Ok, maybe I'm not sorry. 
Max


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - it's been a while since I've rated..but today, I think I rated.

I mean, what would you call........SAILING THROUGH A FREAKIN' TORNADO!?!?!?

Heh-heh. It was pretty insane...but really fun...in a sick kind of way. Our OB has been really squirelly since we took it in for service a couple of weeks ago. That, plus the fact that we were pretty low on gas had me a little nervous as we left the marina in a light rain. But, I figured...what's the worst that can happen? We just sail back into the slip, right?

So we're out in extremely lame winds...drifting around...watching this dude in a Pearson 27 practicing a spin set (horribly I might add). He's sailing sideways - and I'm impressed that a Pearson can do that. Suddenly the wind starts piping up, just after he socks his kite and starts motoring. We start cranking northward at 6 knots or so under a full main and 150. There's a race going on in the gulley and we stay upwind of the committee boat enjoying the speed.

Suddenly, a friend says, "Holy crap, look at that!" I turn around and see this:










No way. That's just a tail dropping. Then a cloud starts coming from the ground to meet that tail. Texas Tornado, baby. 3 miles and closing.










Then, lots more start to form along that line...










That wall of pain is heading straight for us.

We immediately get everyone into PFDs, drop all sail, start the motor and head for a channel that will give us some shelter from the blast. There's very little time.

Within 2 minutes, it's on us...










We move back and forth behind this cliff as the main lake channel blows up with crazy white caps and big winds. The OB starts dying, and I have to milk the choke to keep it running. If it dies now, we are completely screwed. I check the gas and we're low. Crap.

I tell my friend to be ready to go forward and drop the anchor if we lose the motor. It's now directly over us. The wind is howling...










Of course, I'm as cool as a cucumber in my sweet BFS gimme...(heh-heh).










Here, let me give you a closer look...OH YEAH BABY!!!!










And my kids are cowering in the v-berth...










It howls on past...looking absolutely Biblical...



















About this point we head back out onto the lake and start back to the marina since we're dangerously low on gas. We have to keep the motor cranked to fight through the wind and waves. We're actually getting spray over the bow (I love when that happens).

We clear Windy Point and throw up a reefed main and kill the motor to conserve the last few ounces of gas. The wind is still blowing stink but it's starting to die down a bit.

We sail all the way back to the marina inlet...and then things get testy....

We're tacking back and forth right at the mouth of the marina, trying to get past the break water without using the motor. We tack to starboard and I look over and see a 45' double-decker party barge coming at us about 200 yards away doing 15 knots or so. He's trying to cut between us and the marina (a space of no more than 200'). What THE hell?

I stand up in the cockpit and wave him off - using my hands to tell him we're headed into the marina. He doesn't change course. There's a dude on the lower deck, but I can't see anyone else on the boat. The dude runs up the stairs. They are now about 75 yards away - on a collision course. There is literally nothing we can do at this point.

Finally, I see someone at the upper deck take the wheel and bear off to port. I start politely screaming at him to read the freakin' Rules of the Road. Why? Because he's screaming at me as he goes by that it was my fault for "turning right in front of him".

I point out the fact that he's a raging bonehead and that vessels under sail have the right of way. He returns fire saying that it's the "larger boat that has the right of way". He flips me the bird. I work very, very hard to restrain myself because my kids are listening now. But I'm seriously pissed...you know, kind of like CP-And-Tartan-Pissed.

We make it back to the slip without further incident and I have a nice tall rum beverage. I'm better now.

You sail through a tornado and get run down by a freakin' party barge? Where's the justice in that?

Stinkpotters are freakin' Neanderthals. Here is the driver of that party barge...










Nuff said.


----------



## bubb2

I am proud of you Smack, it sounds that you did everything right,


----------



## smackdaddy

Thanks Mike. That means a lot.

I do have a serious question though on the kids...

When something crazy and fast is blowing in like that, is it better for them to be below or in the cockpit? I did forget to drop in the hatchboards prior to the blast (and definitely should have) - but in retrospect, it still kind of freaks me out to think about shuttering them in down there. My wife and I and our friends were up top and all the kids were below.

What do you think?


----------



## blackjenner

bubb2 said:


> I am proud of you Smack, it sounds that you did everything right,


Yeah, what he said. Nice job, Smack.


----------



## blackjenner

smackdaddy said:


> Thanks Mike. That means a lot.
> 
> I do have a serious question though on the kids...
> 
> When something crazy and fast is blowing in like that, is it better for them to be below or in the cockpit? I did forget to drop in the hatchboards prior to the blast (and definitely should have) - but in retrospect, it still kind of freaks me out to think about shuttering them in down there. My wife and I and our friends were up top and all the kids were below.
> 
> What do you think?


down below.

They can't get blown or washed overboard if they are down below. You can concentrate on the boat. Put the hatch boards in and keep them in a nice safe, mostly watertight, cocoon, while you do a good job playing captain.


----------



## tdw

and the bugger snuck by me when I wasn't looking......


----------



## St Anna

*AArgh, (talk like a smacker day)*

Hey Smacker,

You did well. Great stuff.As the skipper, NO MATTER WHAT, you dont lose it! How are your kids now.

It may have just been the photos, but was it a tornado or a squall?

With squalls as a general rule that I (alone) follow, the rougher the lower edge, the stronger the gusts - and that baby looked like a 50+kn sucker!

I see you have joined me in the #@#%@ hate club. It wouldn't matter if he noticed you gesticulating like a mute politician in taiwan, he wouldn't give a damn.


----------



## bubb2

smackdaddy said:


> Thanks Mike. That means a lot.
> 
> I do have a serious question though on the kids...
> 
> When something crazy and fast is blowing in like that, is it better for them to be below or in the cockpit? I did forget to drop in the hatchboards prior to the blast (and definitely should have) - but in retrospect, it still kind of freaks me out to think about shuttering them in down there. My wife and I and our friends were up top and all the kids were below.
> 
> What do you think?


Kids belong below in a storm is my opinion. but never have the companionway boards locked or pined. Your kids are old enough to side back the the overhead companionway hatch or escape though a regular hatch. If not it is time to teach them. practice with life vests on. I found the easiest way was to make a game out of it. I would tell Michael I needed him on deck by way of the forward hatch or by way of the companionway. sometimes I would tell to come up on deck though one of the hatches and go below though the companionway and button it up behind him. i kept life vests in the cabin where the kids could get to them easily. When the weather gets rough I would tell the kids to get below and into vests and I know they would as we had drilled doing it. there are enough things going on above deck that the kids must able to do things for themselves.

It's funny how things change, due to my heart pump i can not get wet as the batteries and the computer controller are on the outside of my body. The last storm we were in, it was my son telling me to go below. As long as he doesn't tell me to get my fat ass up though the forward hatch things will be OK.


----------



## sailingdog

Hey Mike—

I didn't know they made forward hatches that large...


----------



## smackdaddy

St Anna said:


> Hey Smacker,
> 
> You did well. Great stuff.As the skipper, NO MATTER WHAT, you dont lose it! How are your kids now.
> 
> It may have just been the photos, but was it a tornado or a squall?
> 
> With squalls as a general rule that I (alone) follow, the rougher the lower edge, the stronger the gusts - and that baby looked like a 50+kn sucker!
> 
> I see you have joined me in the #@#%@ hate club. It wouldn't matter if he noticed you gesticulating like a mute politician in taiwan, he wouldn't give a damn.


It was definitely a tornado - although it was very brief and not well-formed just prior to coming over the lake. The giveaway was the dust/debris cloud coming up from the ground to meet the descending funnel. That pic was taken right as that was happening. I then realized we needed to do something quick.

Hey! What did I miss? Who was the jealous schmo hatin' on me?


----------



## cb32863

So I am just curious, what was the forecast that day? I am thinking it wasn't for possible severe weather.....


----------



## smackdaddy

Heh-heh. It's Texas, dude - there's _always_ a possibility of severe weather!

30% chance of rain/t-storms, wind projected at 10-15. Nothing severe. But, this was the edge of one the tropical storms so you never know.

It was good practice.


----------



## St Anna

smackdaddy said:


> It was definitely a tornado - although it was very brief and not well-formed just prior to coming over the lake. The giveaway was the dust/debris cloud coming up from the ground to meet the descending funnel. That pic was taken right as that was happening. I then realized we needed to do something quick.
> 
> Hey! What did I miss? Who was the jealous schmo hatin' on me?


Well mate, I've had waterspouts a number of times, but never a dinky-die tornado. Thats a lot of wind buddy.

As for the hate stuff - its a general dislike of all inconsiderate b*&^^%^ who drive things that make a lot of wash and who believe they own the channel, every channel. [No-one hates you big smacker]


----------



## twinsdad

Smack, I think the answer really depends on the conditions and your kids. If the conditions are really awful, then I agree with the others (and you) to keep them below. If they are tolerable, it is a good lesson for them to learn what you do, and how you react, during adverse conditions. Besides, they are less likely to get seasick up above. Naturally, if they are going to be above they should have PFD's and harnesses on.


----------



## sailortjk1

OK Smacky, It's been a while and you know how I feel about this thread, we have talked about it in the past, but I will share you with you just the same. 
No big deal, it's what we do, we sail and in sailing the BFS finds you.

Julie and I had a nice 10 day cruise to Door County Wisconsin last week. We had to wash out two days because of weather so we ended up sailing 430 miles in 8 days. The scenery was absolutely beautiful and we had a great time spending most of our time at anchor in remote areas.

Door County is the finger shaped peninsula that divides Lake Michigan from Green Bay. The area is littered with islands at every turn and shoals that are made up of rocks the size of small cars. The sailing in gentle conditions is a challenge. Large limestone bluffs hundreds of feet high are around every corner. At the base of these cliffs, water depths change quickly from over 150 feet to 30 feet to 10 feet in a manner of seconds, and believe me, you do not want to hit what lies just beneath the surface. The entire area is glacial deposits of rock.










At the very tip of the peninsula are more islands, some large, some small. Between the main land peninsula and the islands are several passages. One of the island passages was named by the early French explorers of the region; "Porte de Mort", or "Gate of Death" or "Door of Death." Better known today by most Lake Michigan sailors and modernized to "Death's Door Passage".

Chart 14909

After our time was spent in Door County it was our goal to exit out Death's Door. The day came and of course we had 20 + knot head winds. We tacked out the skinny shoal laden island strewn pass and as luck would have it, I good friend (sailchick) just happened to be taking a ferry out. Sailchick was able to get some photos of us tacking out in blustery conditions.





































The BFS happened more when we finally got into open water, still in 20+ knots of SE wind, or destination lied 160 miles straight up wind and the seas had about 200 miles of fetch to build. We were in 6 - 8 foot sloppy Great Lakes/Lake Michigan chop for about 10 hours. I sought protection from the Michigan shoreline and an area of Islands called the Manitous off of the Leeland Peninsula some 60 miles away.










The best part of the trip? My wife Julie. She never complained, just did everything you could ask a first mate to do. 
BFS? 10 hours in 6 - 8 foot sloppy Great Lakes chop.


----------



## NICHOLSON58

Let the kids on deck if they want to as long as they can keep out of the way - or help. Puke is easier to clean off decks than from the cabin. Just do life jackets and harnesses. Harnesses are manditory on our boat: after dark; in big blows; outside of the cockpit in anything rough. Photos look like a standard cold front squall line with a few goddies extra. Usually evaporates into a nice sunset. I watched a nice roll cloud attack the marina a few weeks ago. Nothing but nice after it passed. Sometimes on the water our vista is way greater than on land. Just be prepared.

Speaking of big sails, I just discovered the sail I thought was a standard kite turned out to be a monster asymetrical; about a 200 % Geny. (Mast 80, foot about 40). First time out of the bag after four years of restoration and learn as you go. We've been running a fun combo of two jibs, main, mizzen, mizzen staysail. It gives about 9.5 with 12 on the beam. I'm sure the kite will throw us over 10.


----------



## smackdaddy

TJ - that, my friend, is absolute beauty! Very, very nice.

And the especially cool thing is the pics of your boat from someone else! How many times does that happen? Sailchick rocks!

Now as for this "BFS finds you" crap...dude, you were taking on FREAKING *DEATH'S DOOR PASSAGE* IN 20+!!!! Hellloooooo. Had it been "Bunny Tub Channel" I'd give you a pass. But c'mon!

I knew you were a closet BFSer. You are the man.


----------



## smackdaddy

NICHOLSON58 said:


> Let the kids on deck if they want to as long as they can keep out of the way - or help. Puke is easier to clean off decks than from the cabin. Just do life jackets and harnesses. Harnesses are manditory on our boat: after dark; in big blows; outside of the cockpit in anything rough. Photos look like a standard cold front squall line with a few goddies extra. Usually evaporates into a nice sunset. I watched a nice roll cloud attack the marina a few weeks ago. Nothing but nice after it passed. Sometimes on the water our vista is way greater than on land. Just be prepared.
> 
> Speaking of big sails, I just discovered the sail I thought was a standard kite turned out to be a monster asymetrical; about a 200 % Geny. (Mast 80, foot about 40). First time out of the bag after four years of restoration and learn as you go. We've been running a fun combo of two jibs, main, mizzen, mizzen staysail. It gives about 9.5 with 12 on the beam. I'm sure the kite will throw us over 10.


Thanks for the feedback Nic. They wanted to be on the deck - so it was me that was nervous, not them.

As for that BFSpinnaker - we want pics dude!


----------



## Maxboatspeed

*Hmmm - "right of way"?*



smackdaddy said:


> Okay
> 
> We sail all the way back to the marina inlet...and then things get testy....
> 
> We're tacking back and forth right at the mouth of the marina, trying to get past the break water without using the motor. We tack to starboard and I look over and see a 45' double-decker party barge coming at us about 200 yards away doing 15 knots or so. He's trying to cut between us and the marina (a space of no more than 200'). What THE hell?
> 
> I stand up in the cockpit and wave him off - using my hands to tell him we're headed into the marina. He doesn't change course. There's a dude on the lower deck, but I can't see anyone else on the boat. The dude runs up the stairs. They are now about 75 yards away - on a collision course. There is
> literally nothing we can do at this point
> 
> Finally, I see someone at the upper deck take the wheel and bear off to port. I start politely screaming at him to read the freakin' Rules of the Road. Why? Because he's screaming at me as he goes by that it was my fault for "turning right in front of him".
> 
> I point out the fact that he's a raging bonehead and that vessels under sail
> have the right of way. He returns fire saying that it's the "larger boat that has the right of way". He flips me the bird. I work very, very hard to restrain myself because my kids are listening now. But I'm seriously pissed...you know, kind of like CP-And-Tartan-Pissed.
> 
> We make it back to the slip without further incident and I have a nice tall rum beverage. I'm better now.
> 
> You sail through a tornado and get run down by a freakin' party barge?
> Where's the justice in that?
> 
> Stinkpotters are freakin' Neanderthals. Here is the driver of that party barge..
> 
> Nuff said.


Smackdaddy,

sounds exciting. I don't know about Texas Tornados. PFDs - good. I'd think your kids know enough to keep safe. My thought is that they can decide where to be? Avoiding panic is important. It's clear you get that.
Thanks for sharing your stories. 
The reason for my reply is this:

There is a common misconception that "sailboats have the right of way."
Yes, all boaters should read the "Rules of the Road" (Navigation rules).
No where in these rules is the phrase "right of way."
"Stand-on vessel" and "Give-way vessel" (rules 16,17) are terms used.
It's important to know the meaning. 
Rule 2b comes to mind
Rule 9b probably did not apply, but might be what the dumbarse was talking about.

Rule 18a does not mean that sailboats have a "right of way."

I don't really know exactly what the deal was with this "party barge" and it's likely he is a bone head (after all, it's Texas). I do know that niether one of you had the "right of way."
it ain't that simple.

Yep - reading the "rules of the road" is a good idea. 
Safe sailing
Max


----------



## Ajax_MD

sailortjk1 said:


> <snip>
> 
> The BFS happened more when we finally got into open water, still in 20+ knots of SE wind, or destination lied 160 miles straight up wind and the seas had about 200 miles of fetch to build. We were in 6 - 8 foot sloppy Great Lakes/Lake Michigan chop for about 10 hours. I sought protection from the Michigan shoreline and an area of Islands called the Manitous off of the Leeland Peninsula some 60 miles away.
> <snip>.


May I ask what your rationale was for not reefing the main? Just curious.


----------



## smackdaddy

BubbleheadMd said:


> May I ask what your rationale was for not reefing the main? Just curious.


He's a FightClub sailor, dude!


----------



## smackdaddy

Maxboatspeed said:


> Smackdaddy,
> 
> sounds exciting. I don't know about Texas Tornados. PFDs - good. I'd think your kids know enough to keep safe. My thought is that they can decide where to be? Avoiding panic is important. It's clear you get that.
> Thanks for sharing your stories.
> The reason for my reply is this:
> 
> There is a common misconception that "sailboats have the right of way."
> Yes, all boaters should read the "Rules of the Road" (Navigation rules).
> No where in these rules is the phrase "right of way."
> "Stand-on vessel" and "Give-way vessel" (rules 16,17) are terms used.
> It's important to know the meaning.
> Rule 2b comes to mind
> Rule 9b probably did not apply, but might be what the dumbarse was talking about.
> 
> Rule 18a does not mean that sailboats have a "right of way."
> 
> I don't really know exactly what the deal was with this "party barge" and it's likely he is a bone head (after all, it's Texas). I do know that niether one of you had the "right of way."
> it ain't that simple.
> 
> Yep - reading the "rules of the road" is a good idea.
> Safe sailing
> Max


Now maxi, don't go getting all semantic on me. First, Bonehead obviously didn't understand the NavRules anyway - so it really wouldn't have mattered whether I said "right of way" or "stand-on" - it simply sounded like "biosimplistic protoplasmation" to him. And big words just make him mad...and vaguely hungry.

Second, the terms mean the same thing. Where the actual NR terms to which you refer describe the _responsibility_ the vessels have, "right of way" describes the condition under which those responsibilities and resultant actions occur and is perfectly valid as well. For example, my _condition_ as a sailboat under sail gives me the right of way (in relation to power driven vessels), which designates me as the "stand-on" vessel and him as the "give-way" vessel (the responsibilities). But the language is not that cut and dried. To wit, your 18a:



> Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:
> (a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
> (i) a vessel not under command;
> (ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
> (iii) a vessel engaged in fishing; and
> (iv) a sailing vessel.


See how "Give Way" (responsibility) is replaced by "Keep out of the way of" (action)? The way I read it, a sailboat does indeed have the inherent "right of way" (the condition) since the power-driven vessel (with give-way responsibility) is told to "stay out of its way" (the action) with few exceptions. Semantics, dude.

I mean, which would have been easier to yell at a passing party barger throwing you the stink finger?

"Read the Rules of the Road you freakin' bonehead, sailboats have the right way when under sail!"

-or-

"Pardon me sir, but may I direct your attention to Navigation Rules 16, 17, and 18, which clearly designate my bad-ass C27 as the 'stand-on' vessel, and your goofy-ass PB45 as the 'give-way' vessel...thereby, making it incumbent on you to avoid running me down. Furthermore, I would like to extend my sympathy for the palsy that has obviously crippled four digits of your right hand. Good day sir."

I chose the first option - and was actually right on the mark.

Furthermore, let me respectfully point out the error of your above statement...



> No where in these rules is the phrase "right of way."


...by pointing you to rules 9a and 14d and Annex V§88.12. "Right of way" all over the place!

So even my splendid Navigation Rules semantics were spot on! And if you want to get super picky, how about this doozey?



> Yes, all boaters should read the "Rules of the Road"


Do you sail on a road? I don't - but maybe that's just Texas.

But I digress...let's continue the rules evaluation and how Bonehead f'ed up in every conceivable way...

Let's start with 2b that you mention above:



> In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be
> had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special
> circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which
> may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid
> immediate danger.


The only limitation on that vessel was its Neanderthal skipper and his complete inability to focus on anything that isn't shiny or warm.

Result: NEANDERFAIL.

Okay, how about 9a?



> (a) (i) A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or
> fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or
> fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.
> (ii) Notwithstanding paragraph (a)(i) and Rule 14(a), a powerdriven
> vessel operating in narrow channels or fairways on the Great
> Lakes, Western Rivers, or waters specified by the Secretary, and
> proceeding downbound with a following current shall have the rightof-
> way over an upbound vessel, shall propose the manner and
> place of passage, and shall initiate the maneuvering signals
> prescribed by rule 34(a)(i), as appropriate. The vessel proceeding
> upbound against the current shall hold as necessary to permit safe
> passing.


Okay, a little more interesting. Since Lake Travis is actually part of the Colorado River, Bonehead could possibly try to shoot down 18a by trying to throw this in my face. However, as I mentioned, I was actually the one in the narrow channel as I was entering our marina and only 50' or so from the no-wake buoys. His course was hugging the cliffs (I assume to avoid the waves I kicked up by said tornado). He had miles of lake to port, cliffs to starboard, and my own bad self dead ahead. Furthermore, I was the downbound vessel with the current behind me...clearly giving me the "right of way".

Result: NEANDERFAIL.

So, as you point out, maybe he was banking on good, old 9b as indicated by his profane shouting:



> (b) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall
> not impede the passage of a vessel that can safely navigate only
> within a narrow channel or fairway.


Of course, as already shown, this is a huge freakin' eye roll. I was entering the narrow passage - not him. He had the whole freakin' lake to his left. And, anyway, it's a _party barge_, not an ore carrier. Once again...

Result: NEANDERFAIL.

Finally, as to the "bonehead" moniker...it's simply a means of pointing out the trait of physiognomy evident in really stupid people, both in Texas and Manhattan, as shown in this photo of a derivatives trader who used to work for Bear Sterns and bears a striking resemblance to the Party Barger...









(Note the copious amount of bone.)


----------



## AboardIndigo

smackdaddy said:


> Now maxi, blah, blah...
> 
> ...blah, blah
> 
> (Note the copious amount of bone.)


That's what _she_ said.


----------



## smackdaddy

AboardIndigo said:


> That's what _she_ said.


Now that's funny!


----------



## bljones

smackdaddy said:


>


"No Daddy! PLEASE don't make me go back down into the mines! I promise not to call you SailingDog again!"


----------



## smackdaddy

bljones said:


> "No Daddy! PLEASE don't make me go back down into the mines! I promise not to call you SailingDog again!"


Heh-heh. They KNOW not to cross that line...he's the "Voldemort" of Smackburg.

As a matter of fact, here is the vision that haunts them:









(Found via Googling "Sailingdog")

Which is why they retreated to the mines in the first place.


----------



## Maxboatspeed

Smackdad,

cool. I gotcha going. Your comments show that you care?
It's not "semantics". If you want to discuss it - cool. 

I guess you care to talk "rules"? Sounds good to me. I'm guessin there is a thread, other then BFS, to do it? Let me know.

I don't mean to say you are wrong. I do want to discuss the rules, concepts, blahblah, that could be important to "newbies" reading this stuff.

Anyway, thanks for considering everything I posted. Lots of consideration, quotes, and thought in your reply!
Still, I have a valid point worth discussing.
The rules are complex.
Each phase (give-way, stand-on, stay out of the way of, overtaking, right of way, blahblah) has very specific meaning. If you care, we can discuss it.
I believe you know what you're doing and some jackarse cut you off(?).
Anyway, there's a bunch of stuff that got me goin.
By the way, I'm right and your wrong! Ha. I'll explain if you care. 
Maxi


----------



## smackdaddy

Maxboatspeed said:


> Smackdad,
> 
> cool. I gotcha going. Your comments show that you care?
> It's not "semantics". If you want to discuss it - cool.
> 
> I guess you care to talk "rules"? Sounds good to me. I'm guessin there is a thread, other then BFS, to do it? Let me know.
> 
> I don't mean to say you are wrong. I do want to discuss the rules, concepts, blahblah, that could be important to "newbies" reading this stuff.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for considering everything I posted. Lots of consideration, quotes, and thought in your reply!
> Still, I have a valid point worth discussing.
> The rules are complex.
> Each phase (give-way, stand-on, stay out of the way of, overtaking, right of way, blahblah) has very specific meaning. If you care, we can discuss it.
> I believe you know what you're doing and some jackarse cut you off(?).
> Anyway, there's a bunch of stuff that got me goin.
> By the way, I'm right and your wrong! Ha. I'll explain if you care.
> Maxi


Max, feel free to throw down on me in this thread. BFS is not just about telling the world about your insanely cool sailing adventures - it's about discussing them and learning from them as well.

Anyway, this is the most-read sailing thread on SN, so newbs will definitely be reading it.

So rip me a new one, dude!


----------



## puddinlegs

Maxboatspeed said:


> Smackdad,
> 
> The rules are complex.
> 
> Maxi


IMHO, the rules are pretty straight forward and relatively simple. Chapman's, etc... loads of well diagramed right of way and stand on examples as well as proper signals, etc... Lot's of small pocket guides around too for an 'on boat' reference for moments of doubt or a bet to win.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Nice job Smack. C'mon, did ya really expect a party barge driver on Lake friggin' Travis to have a clue about right of way? Do yourself a favor and automatically assume every other boater's a total moron unless proven otherwise while you're on the water. It'll keep ya outta trouble.


----------



## smackdaddy

CharlieCobra said:


> Nice job Smack. C'mon, did ya really expect a party barge driver on Lake friggin' Travis to have a clue about right of way? Do yourself a favor and automatically assume every other boater's a total moron unless proven otherwise while you're on the water. It'll keep ya outta trouble.


CC - how do you always see right through my BS? It's amazing.

Okay, full truth be told, it was as much my fault as Bonehead's. Why? I'd let my guard down. The winds were very light at this point (after the squall had blown through) and we were just entering the marina channel as I said, so we were really focused on the sail, the rocks and the buoys as we were tacking back and forth to get past the breakwater. And after the big battle earlier, there were virtually no other boats on the lake. So, we thought we were home free and just relaxed.

I never saw (or heard) Bonehead until we'd tacked back to starboard. And here's the true confession: there were 4 adults in the cockpit at the time. 4 sets of eyes and ears. And we missed it. The ladies were blathering about 5.7 Hemi carb kits, and my buddy and I were working the boat and watching the depth...none of us keeping a proper watch around us. We'd let our guard down. We had the right of way...right? So, though it's really a lot of fun to hammer Bonehead (with justification from the NRs) - I have to admit I screwed up...just a teeny-tiny bit.

What was really sobering though was looking up at this huge vessel bearing down on us and not seeing anyone at the helm...just the dude on the lower deck at the bow staring at us. There was literally no way we could have gotten out of his way in time. The winds were too light to sail away, the motor was obviously not started - we were completely helpless. And that was a very, very bad feeling...despite my justified "right of way".

So, at the end of the day, you're right. Rules schmules. You just have to stay frosty and keep the hell out of their way. Lesson learned.

(PS - I didn't let him in on any of this as I was screaming at him and calling him a freakin' Bonehead. So let's just keep it between us sailors.)


----------



## bacampbe

Yep. And it's not just powerboats. I had to tack to avoid a same tack, windward sailboat on Labor Day on Lewisville Lake.

The more polite boaters around here tend to give way even when stand-on. That's nice of them, but they don't realize the stand on boat has a responsibility to behave predictably. And the rude boaters just assume everyone else will give way. The local authorities pretty much ignore it unless a collision occurs.


----------



## dhays

CharlieCobra said:


> Do yourself a favor and automatically assume every other boater's a total moron unless proven otherwise while you're on the water.


Good advice as I demonstrate the validity of this premise on a disappointingly regular basis.


----------



## GeorgeB

Yeah, stinkpotters are the worst. Out here, the bigger they are, the more arrogant they get. This is a picture of the channel to my marina in Alameda with a pair of them thinking they "own" the whole channel (and I'm not talking about the "little" guys in the foreground either








</O>[/font]


----------



## Maxboatspeed

*Capt Smack*

SmackD,

I can't rip ya a new one. In fact, I think you're cool.
Your story has snit loads of BFS - to me. Thanks.
I read your story and it sparked interest. I thought your comment, about right of way, was .....something worth talking about.
It's killin me to tell you this:
I think you contribute huge value to this thing (blog, thread, ?). Your comment about getting into a situation (or whatever you want to call it) because other stuff was going on - is, uh, well, a thing. 1+ .
My point was this: the idea that sailboats always have a "right of way" over power vessels is.....well, it ain't that simple.
I appreciate your consideration, and knowledge, of the rules.
I guess I gotta reply and keep this going? I'm not sayin you did any wrong. I'm not trying to argue the exact situation. I am trying to let guys know (those that care) that there are a bunch of rules and it's not just "I have right of way 'cause I'm sailing."

I'm thinking your sayin rule 5 might be a thing (both boats)? 
You didn't quote rule 17a,b. You did mention altering course (tacking), and then being concerned about a collision with the other guy?
Again, since you're into it, "right of way" has a specific meaning. The phrase is not used in any of the relevant rules. If you're gonna quote a bunch of stuff, please include the stuff that actually matters.
Basically (and informal)
I guess you get that "right of way" is not the same as "stand-on"?
Sailboaters are way smarter than stinkboaters. We all know that.

By the way, most of your babble is good. Some of it ("right of way" , what that means, where it applies) is, uhm, not that cool. 
You mentioned rules that do not apply. Tell us all the rules that include "right of way" (rivers, downbound). The annex thing is ridiculous - read it.
Help me out here. I respect your knowledge, learning, sharing, teaching, etc.
Wanna start a rules forum? A start could be about the specific meaning of terms/phrases. Does anyone care?
Safe sailing,
Max


----------



## smackdaddy

Maxboatspeed said:


> SmackD,
> 
> I can't rip ya a new one. In fact, I think you're cool.
> Your story has snit loads of BFS - to me. Thanks.
> I read your story and it sparked interest. I thought your comment, about right of way, was .....something worth talking about.
> It's killin me to tell you this:
> I think you contribute huge value to this thing (blog, thread, ?). Your comment about getting into a situation (or whatever you want to call it) because other stuff was going on - is, uh, well, a thing. 1+ .
> My point was this: the idea that sailboats always have a "right of way" over power vessels is.....well, it ain't that simple.
> I appreciate your consideration, and knowledge, of the rules.
> I guess I gotta reply and keep this going? I'm not sayin you did any wrong. I'm not trying to argue the exact situation. I am trying to let guys know (those that care) that there are a bunch of rules and it's not just "I have right of way 'cause I'm sailing."
> 
> I'm thinking your sayin rule 5 might be a thing (both boats)?
> You didn't quote rule 17a,b. You did mention altering course (tacking), and then being concerned about a collision with the other guy?
> Again, since you're into it, "right of way" has a specific meaning. The phrase is not used in any of the relevant rules. If you're gonna quote a bunch of stuff, please include the stuff that actually matters.
> Basically (and informal)
> I guess you get that "right of way" is not the same as "stand-on"?
> Sailboaters are way smarter than stinkboaters. We all know that.
> 
> By the way, most of your babble is good. Some of it ("right of way" , what that means, where it applies) is, uhm, not that cool.
> You mentioned rules that do not apply. Tell us all the rules that include "right of way" (rivers, downbound). The annex thing is ridiculous - read it.
> Help me out here. I respect your knowledge, learning, sharing, teaching, etc.
> Wanna start a rules forum? A start could be about the specific meaning of terms/phrases. Does anyone care?
> Safe sailing,
> Max


Heh-heh. No worries dude. As long as most of my babble is good...I'm golden.

As for rule 5, yeah, I'm busted. That was the point of my post above. 17a/b, however, are a stretch. Technically, these could possibly be claimed by Bonehead, however, _we were sailing in a narrow channel_, and therefore unable to hold course due to hazards - so he'd NEANDERFAIL that one too.

Go over to the Seamanship forum here:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/seamanship/

And start a new thread on Rules. I think it would be a great discussion. I did a quick search and there are quite a few threads about specific questions - but nothing I could quickly find with a top-level reparte.


----------



## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> Yeah, stinkpotters are the worst. Out here, the bigger they are, the more arrogant they get. This is a picture of the channel to my marina in Alameda with a pair of them thinking they "own" the whole channel (and I'm not talking about the "little" guys in the foreground either
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> </O>[/font]


That's just plain scary! I'll stop whining about "big boats".


----------



## GeorgeB

And they'll only get worse. The port has already widened and dredged (to 50' feet) the estuary in anticipation of the "super" container ships as soon as the recession ends. The prop suction & wash from these ships are tremendous and you have to mind your helm carefully so you don't get drawn into them. The trick is to be able to get around them while they are turning around. As this picture shows, there isn't a whole lot of clearance once they get perpendicular to the channel.


----------



## St Anna

GeorgeB said:


> And they'll only get worse. The port has already widened and dredged (to 50' feet) the estuary in anticipation of the "super" container ships as soon as the recession ends. The prop suction & wash from these ships are tremendous and you have to mind your helm carefully so you don't get drawn into them. The trick is to be able to get around them while they are turning around. As this picture shows, there isn't a whole lot of clearance once they get perpendicular to the channel.


What a place to try and sail - talk about a wind shadow. I really have an intense respectful dislike for those steel islands. Dont be like Scrooge Mc Smackdaddy and have enough fuel for teh return trip.

5 short blasts on the air horn should make them move [ to the rail and laugh at you!]


----------



## blt2ski

Those ships look small George, you otter see some of the cruise ships coming and going thru puget sound! I seem to recall the largest ship on the see is one of the newest cruise ships! These things are monsters compared to the 2-3 carriers the make PS home! Or for that matter, even the container ships that come to Seattle or farther south to Tacoma!

Was not following the other thread, but, yes these big guys can move quickly, silently too! I remember one of them turning in front of me to enter Elliot Bay towards seattle, man that puppy was quick! As are the Cruise ships when you see them south of me in seattle coming out of the bay, 15-30 min max, they are here! 5' swells and all! 

Marty


----------



## rmeador

The largest cruise ship in the world is the Oasis of the Seas, but she is not the largest vessel (there are container or bulk carriers that are larger). I sailed past her when I was taking a sailing class in St Thomas. The cruise ship terminal was right next to the marina, and she was just leaving the dock as we pulled into our slip. That thing is HUGE!!! I got some fantastic pictures, but sadly my camera took an unscheduled swim while I was stowing the boathook after docking


----------



## GeorgeB

Those “little” ships are in excess of 900 feet long and draw close to 40 feet. The little grey one in the background is the “Lurline”, a Matson ROLO used on the Honolulu run. At 700’, she is big for Honolulu, but small for Oakland. The Port is getting ready for the 1,000 – 1,200 footers which are the largest container ships in the world. The passenger ships tie up at the older docks in San Francisco so I have no real size comparison. How big are the Love Boats anyway? Fortunately, the cargo ships are essentially coasting into the estuary as they need to be at full stop so they can be turned to windward at the turning basin. When they are going through San Francisco Bay proper, they are going in excess of 12-15 kts to maintain steerage in the stronger winds in the central Bay. These are the guys you have to watch for as the come up quickly and make for numerous crossing situations. Our port is fairly active and we can get up to a half dozen large commercial ships passing under the Golden Gate on any given day.


----------



## blt2ski

George,

We get on Friday to sunday 3 cruise ships leaving seattle in 30 min increments from about 5-6pm. The other day typically 2 in 30 min or less. Along with one or two other larger ships every hr or so daily, then you have not sure how many ferry's crossing puget sound daily.......

I am recalling at a meeting dealing with permits, the CG mentioned, PS has ore boat traffic than the next 3-5 area's combined on the west coast! Including SF bay, columbia river, LA etc. 

Not sure how big the cruise ships are here, 350-400 or so feet. They dwarf most of the other ships I see coming thru here, including the carriers going north to Everett, and the moth balled navy ships in Bremerton.

Marty


----------



## GeorgeB

Lol! I believe every USCG Group think’s their area is the biggest/busiest/most dangerous etc. Our Group 11 Commander had said that we were the fourth busiest port complex in North America. He also said that Group San Francisco had the highest number of rescues in the US. My half dozen ships a day are only the large tankers and cargo ships. I’m not counting all the ferries, coastal tankers freighters and bulk carriers. To put things into perspective, a Nimitz class aircraft carrier is a little over 1,000 feet long. A high endurance cutter (we have four, how many do you have Seattle? Two?) is just under four hundred feet. Our “small” container ships carry around 3,000 containers which they can off load and reload in 48 hours. To service the port, freight trains run pretty continuously nignt and day. If you ever drove Hwy 880, you know how much truck traffic we get. 

Bulk carriers from Asia will travel up the Sacramento and San Juaquin rivers all the way to Stockton to pick up agricultural cargos. One time we were motoring straight into a 20kt headwind and nasty chop in an area known as “Middle Ground” The channel in this part is narrow – the north side is the Middle Ground shoal where you see birds wading at low tide. To the left is the (now old) Concord Naval Weapons Depot and those never friendly machine gun toting armed RIB driving marines. Well, as we were reenacting our favorite scenes from “Victory at Sea” – steep chop breaking over the bow, clearing the dodger and drenching us in the cockpit. All of our attention was focused forward as we worked to stay inside the channel. I sensed a black shadow creep up behind us and something in my brain told me to look back. And when I did (or should I say “looked up”?) There was the bow of a Korean Bulk Carrier looming above with two Korean sailors at the bow looking down at us. No warning horn, nothing. We quickly got over as far to the south side of the channel as we could without drawing the ire of marines and the bulk carrier slid on by. We did get a nonchalant wave from a crew on the bridge wing, like, almost running over a yachtie was no big deal in Korea. After that, close approaches in the estuary haven’t bothered me so much.


----------



## blt2ski

Maybe these cruise ships are longer than I thunk! We have two carriers at least, not sure of the models, would assume nimitz class.......These cruise ships are every bit as large or longer than the one in Everett I used to go by where I moored for a bit.......

then in hindsight, I thought puget sound was the busiest, altho we may be the largest sq miles.......

May have to look this all up! 

I know for swiftsure, once an hour there are three or four CG area reports of where the BIG ships are coming thru the straght, so the racers do not get surprised by the BIG boys, and can stay away from them.

Marty


----------



## blt2ski

3 days

still time to get your plane ticket smacky......


winds are forecast as ferocious! yep yessiree, major storm coming in......:laugher:laugher:laugher











South variable to 10 knots!


----------



## Icarus05

*Bad Bfs*

:laugher I think this guy has the spirit (if not a bit extreme) of BFS but I think the execution was definately lost on him.

Video: Sailor crashes boat for 13th time - Telegraph


----------



## smackdaddy

Dude, that is freaking hilarious! I especially love this line...



> Officials have pleaded with him to give up sailing, with local coastguards calling him 'Captain Calamity'.


Anyway, you're right, "seafaring antics" don't count as BFS. But I'd still throw him a sticker. Dude has some stones.

BTW - did you notice he sails a multi? Uh-huh.


----------



## Maxboatspeed

smackdaddy said:


> Dude, that is freaking hilarious! I especially love this line...
> 
> Anyway, you're right, "seafaring antics" don't count as BFS. But I'd still throw him a sticker. Dude has some stones.
> 
> BTW - did you notice he sails a multi? Uh-huh.


Smackster,

I wanna sticker! What does it take? I love this thread and guess you're the "creator" of BFS?
I've shared some stuff.
Obviously, many BSF stories can only be written by guys that have done stuff they, ah, hmmm, well.... might think it's better to keep quiet?
I'll share more. I won't tell all.
I wanna sticker.
Thanks for the BFS thing
Max


----------



## Maxboatspeed

blt2ski said:


> Maybe these cruise ships are longer than I thunk! We have two carriers at least, not sure of the models, would assume nimitz class.......These cruise ships are every bit as large or longer than the one in Everett I used to go by where I moored for a bit.......
> 
> then in hindsight, I thought puget sound was the busiest, altho we may be the largest sq miles.......
> 
> May have to look this all up!
> 
> I know for swiftsure, once an hour there are three or four CG area reports of where the BIG ships are coming thru the straght, so the racers do not get surprised by the BIG boys, and can stay away from them.
> 
> Marty


Look it up? Why?
The Straits of Juan De Fuca ( where the famous "Swiftsure" race is) is the route ships run for these ports (and more): Van, BC (Most ship traffic, most tonnage, busiest port on the west coast of NA?), Seattle and Tacoma ( combined, 3rd largest West Coast US), Everett, Bangor Sub base, Bremerton naval sy, other US and BC ports.
Add all the Alaska trade (tug/barge, small fish boats, large fish boats, coastal frieghters), coastal trade (tug/barge, etc).
I can't (and don't care) to quote data. There are a bunch of big guys transitting the Strts of JDF. Although it's a large area, Pilots (know what that means) don't board until well inside the Straits (Port Angeles, Race Rks)

The VTS for the Strts of JDF is a joint deal - US/Can. Mostly, and simplistically, the area is part of "Seattle Traffic" VTS - ch 5A ( north of Bush Pt, 14 So. of.)

The guys (VTS, "Seattle Traffic") that made safety announcements hourly during the "swiftsure" were... Uh, well, don't take as negative - going out of their way, making announcements on many frequencies (16,5A, 13?, possibly the designated RC freq?) because they recognized that the situation called for.. extra precaution, added traffic updates, AND that a bunch of ships (controlled by guys that ain't from around here) combined with a bunch sailboats, racing at night once a yr. in the area (run by guys that are unknown in their world).
So...
Don't expect hourly updates - except during the race. 
Many areas have major ship traffic. If you think you might be near shipping/commercial lanes - know what that's all about. Never believe that ships at sea, large commercial guys in traffic lanes, or elsewhere are able to avoid you.
In general - commercial guys know very little about sailboats (and don't care). Tacking close to any powerboat can be very confusing to them. Believe me - 
guys with big tonnage licenses know nothing about sailing up wind ( or sailing at all).

Here's one for ya:
I heard a call on the VHF when in the Strts of JDF. It went something like this:
"the *********** vessel, bearing 078, range 3000 yards, this is Navy unit 23"
No reply
then he repeated the call, and demanded the this small boat alter course and get out of his way. 
I got a good laugh that day.
Max


----------



## smackdaddy

Maxboatspeed said:


> Smackster,
> 
> I wanna sticker! What does it take? I love this thread and guess you're the "creator" of BFS?
> I've shared some stuff.
> Obviously, many BSF stories can only be written by guys that have done stuff they, ah, hmmm, well.... might think it's better to keep quiet?
> I'll share more. I won't tell all.
> I wanna sticker.
> Thanks for the BFS thing
> Max


Three ways to get a free sticker:

1. I usually throw one into every order just to say thanks.

2. If a BFS story is huge and I put it on the site (with permission of course), like CharlieCobra's and Val's, you get a sticker.

3. If you're a complete bonehead, intentionally sail your boat into the surf 13 times and lose it, I'll give you a sticker out of sympathy to put on your Datsun since you no longer have a boat. This just to remind you that BFS only counts if you and the boat get home safely - and to give you some loftier goals to aspire to than just being stupid.

So what you got dude?


----------



## Maxboatspeed

smackdaddy said:


> Three ways to get a free sticker:
> 
> 1. I usually throw one into every order just to say thanks.
> 
> 2. If a BFS story is huge and I put it on the site (with permission of course), like CharlieCobra's and Val's, you get a sticker.
> 
> 3. If you're a complete bonehead, intentionally sail your boat into the surf 13 times and lose it, I'll give you a sticker out of sympathy to put on your Datsun since you no longer have a boat. This just to remind you that BFS only counts if you and the boat get home safely - and to give you some loftier goals to aspire to than just being stupid.
> 
> So what you got dude?


Ok. Maybe I'm a complete bonehead 'cause:

1. I don't know what you're sellin, or I can order
2. I don't know what Val or Charliecobra said
3. I still have a boat.

I've been boatin a while and am happy to say I've learned from my mistakes ( I like to think!). 
I still want a sticker.
More later
Max


----------



## smackdaddy

Heh-heh. No worries max. Here is the link to Val's and Charlie's featured throwdowns...which were initially posted in this thread. The whole BFS thing started right here on Sailnet. So it's pretty cool.

Featured Throwdowns

Also, remember the annual BFS Cup. You can read about those winners too...both of which were also posted in this thread. We'll start the 2010 voting in a few weeks.

So, it's all about the BFS. Great big sailing stories never get old - and deserve a little bling now and then.


----------



## blt2ski

Max,

As far as updated in the straights, I do not expect them, EXCEPT, as mentioned during swiftsure for what I hope you and I know as obvious reality, 300 and some odd sailboats on a mission, who knows how many BIG boys coming in on a mission, with in a what I would call a very to reasonably confined area to travel in........

I was pretty sure my source, ie CG at a skippers meeting held here in Seattle to discuss permits etc along with a Boat US article in that rag, mentioned Pugetsound/along with up into BC had more boat traffic than the rest of the west coast or some such item.

marty


----------



## GeorgeB

LOL. It’s great to see that there is a lot of local pride out there for our ports. Which is odd when you think of it – the busier the port, the more ships you have to dodge and the less fun the sailing is. Well, I tried to do a little reseach but “busiest” is a hard term to define. For example, COSCO’s main North American Terminal is Oakland which also receives ships that have either docked in LA/Long Beach or Seattle/Tacoma on the same outbound leg. But interestingly, COSCO ships do not bypass Oakland and transit directly to/from LA/Seattle.

Wikipedia has a listing of the 150 largest ports in the US by tonnage so if we use that, we both lose! The third largest is Newark NJ! And the rounding out the top four are all on the gulf coast (man, there is a lot of tonnage in oil). Long Beach is the largest on the west coast followed by Los Angles Ca., Valdez, and Portland Oregon! Tacoma is next followed by Richmond Ca. (again, there is a lot of oil moved by water). If I rank the West Coast by regions and exclude Hawaii and Alaska, the LA are is largest at 132M tons followed by the Puget sound @ 81M tons. Then SF Bay @ 47M tons. In fourth place is Portland Or @ 36M tons (must be all the agricutural products from the Inland Empire. Followed by San Diego @ 3M tons.

<OPuget Sound is bigger than the Bay Area. Enjoy your ship traffic! Just so happens that I was sailing in the Santa Barbara channel this past weekend (10 PM to 9 AM) and we were tracking ships using AIS/MARPA on our computer and there was never less than five cargo ships/ tankers on the screen at any one time. We generally ignored the fishing boat/ oil platform service ship contacts as they generally were not operating in close proximity to us.<O


----------



## smackdaddy

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ports-schmorts.

Lake Travis is cooler...and far more challenging. I'm talkin' tornadoes you wimps!


----------



## Maxboatspeed

It's all good. I just mentioned stuff that came to mind (traffic - strait of jdf) I'm thinkin:
No disrespect intended.
I guess it seemed relevant to mention the Straits of Juan De Fuca is an area transitted by a bunch of stuff, on their way to/from a bunch of ports (many in BC).
It's not really about whose is bigger. It's about what you do with it. I support "safe sail" and using contraptions. A few precautions can avoid getting anyone knocked down (up), crabs chewin on ya, other unpleasant stuff.
Yep, "sail ed" might lead to more "safe sail" and reduce HIV (Having Impact with Vessels).
Safe sail
Max


----------



## blt2ski

Different way of saying HIV......happened yesterday. On RC boat, boat comes along starboard side, motoring, right into a start area, yell at them, the go oops, try to do a u'y of course towards the RC, right into the hull at slow speed, but SB would have lost. RC is a 350K lb converted fishing boat into a live aboard! 85' long, with more draft than the SB. Coulda shoulds DQ"d the idjiot for that........another did the same later, but did not hit anyone........

It is possbible the area is what the CG brings up as to why puget sound is the largest something or other........not that it matters. 

Marty


----------



## puddinlegs

GeorgeB said:


> <OPuget Sound is bigger than the Bay Area. Enjoy your ship traffic! Just so happens that I was sailing in the Santa Barbara channel this past weekend (10 PM to 9 AM) and we were tracking ships using AIS/MARPA on our computer and there was never less than five cargo ships/ tankers on the screen at any one time. We generally ignored the fishing boat/ oil platform service ship contacts as they generally were not operating in close proximity to us.<O


Having sailed in both SF Bay and the Sound, it seems that there's more traffic in the Sound. A lot of ferry crossings, tug and barge traffic for WA, BC, and Alaska, Bremerton and Everett naval yards/bases, Seattle CG, Esquimalt naval base, Argosy Lines cruise boats and ferries, the Victoria clipper, summer cruise ships (3-4 a day), the Port of Olympia, Port of Tacoma, Pt. Roberts, Vancouver, Victoria, fishing fleets in Seattle and Steveston BC, BC Ferries at multiple crossings, yada yada yada.... and those damn sea planes everywhere. We're long for sure, but narrow too!  But no doubt, both are crowded venues!


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey, check it out!

A little bird told me that Giu had himself an actual BFS! And since I love good sailing stories where-ever they come from, here you go!

Old Shoes for Ocean crossings?? Yeah right!! Not me....

Nice going dude!


----------



## St Anna

Hey Smackman,
How goes it?

Do you think Giu would say I sail ' an old shoe'? If so, then I believe I could be qualified enough to have a decent discussion with him about heavy weather sailing. I agree with pretty much of his conclusions, but not all. I think the other boats in his group quit because of their crew's attitude, not the boat limitations.

I agree 100% that you have to be fast and slow is dangerous. This means you have to work the sails to keep your hull speed up. This statement means getting out in it and reefing/ popping reefs, changing sails, adding inner jibs etc etc. Many 'old shoes' are just slow, under powered, ketches or small motor. However, many 'bendy toys' have a piddly engine as well and cannot keep up against wind.

However, a hull shape designed solely to pack more charter people in, may go to windwards, albeit with a significant heel, but both a fast or slow downwind run can be really dangerous unless you have an experienced person on the helm.

Dramamine's side effects are well known. Sailing near a cape will cause swells to 'bounce back', changing the sea pattern. This may induce nausea.

For credibility, here is a copy of our closest Cape's weather.45-50kn SE'ers For the record, yes, I have been out in that location and weather and yes we sail, not motor. The 'water' was 3-5m on a 3-5m swell. So 6-10m of water and up to 57kn true. The swells were far enough apart. I would not wish to be in a multihull and I would not want to be caught out in that in anything but my current boat! Earlier this year, there were calls for assistance because of 'crew failure' in similar conditions. Both were from yachts similar to modern, large bummed, bolt on keeled, bendy toy types. Apart from a Roberts ketch, we were the only other 'idiots' out in that weather. The Roberts motored, horribly. We were not having a G&T time of it, but we were confident in our boat and our ability to keep on to where we were headed.


10/03:28pm17.9SSE45551017.7-3.8-------10/03:00pm18.0SSE43511018.3-3.6-------10/02:30pm17.6SSE47551017.9-3.6-------10/02:22pm17.8SSE47571018.1-3.6-------10/02:00pm17.4SSE48571017.9 

The bottom line, is that is is essential to get where your'e headed, it is immensly satisfying to get there first, so Giu - Salute'


----------



## smackdaddy

On the whole "old shoe" thing, I have no idea what he'd call your boat. It's always seemed to be a fairly ill-defined (and somewhat silly) debate anyway, as shown even in that thread.

I don't think you can ever really make categorical statements on boats. The exception is yours below...that most all boats will far outlast its crew in heavy weather. That seems to be proven time and again. And that alone should make people a little more comfortable when considering picking up the greatest pastime in the world.

Regardless, it sounds like one sweet BFS. See? Every sailor likes to brag! It's just in our DNA!

Here's to you Giu!



St Anna said:


> Hey Smackman,
> How goes it?
> 
> Do you think Giu would say I sail ' an old shoe'? If so, then I believe I could be qualified enough to have a decent discussion with him about heavy weather sailing. I agree with pretty much of his conclusions, but not all. I think the other boats in his group quit because of their crew's attitude, not the boat limitations.
> 
> I agree 100% that you have to be fast and slow is dangerous. This means you have to work the sails to keep your hull speed up. This statement means getting out in it and reefing/ popping reefs, changing sails, adding inner jibs etc etc. Many 'old shoes' are just slow, under powered, ketches or small motor. However, many 'bendy toys' have a piddly engine as well and cannot keep up against wind.
> 
> However, a hull shape designed solely to pack more charter people in, may go to windwards, albeit with a significant heel, but both a fast or slow downwind run can be really dangerous unless you have an experienced person on the helm.
> 
> Dramamine's side effects are well known. Sailing near a cape will cause swells to 'bounce back', changing the sea pattern. This may induce nausea.
> 
> The bottom line, is that is is essential to get where your'e headed, it is immensly satisfying to get there first, so Giu - Salute'


----------



## St Anna

I edited it and added some Smacker. Its when you are caught out - forecast not holding up etc or you have no choice but o get to point B! Never out in it in bad stuff by choice. Giu's right that those who brag are just full of BS and if you explore it, they back off.

Usually, the loudest at bragging are crew [on a racer ], whose task is solely to be the windward weight. The skip and helm often dont put down challenges unless they are confident they can pull it off.


----------



## smackdaddy

St Anna said:


> For credibility, here is a copy of our closest Cape's weather.45-50kn SE'ers For the record, yes, I have been out in that location and weather and yes we sail, not motor. The 'water' was 3-5m on a 3-5m swell. So 6-10m of water and up to 57kn true. The swells were far enough apart. I would not wish to be in a multihull and I would not want to be caught out in that in anything but my current boat! Earlier this year, there were calls for assistance because of 'crew failure' in similar conditions. Both were from yachts similar to modern, large bummed, bolt on keeled, bendy toy types. Apart from a Roberts ketch, we were the only other 'idiots' out in that weather. The Roberts motored, horribly. We were not having a G&T time of it, but we were confident in our boat and our ability to keep on to where we were headed.
> 
> 
> 10/03:28pm17.9SSE45551017.7-3.8-------10/03:00pm18.0SSE43511018.3-3.6-------10/02:30pm17.6SSE47551017.9-3.6-------10/02:22pm17.8SSE47571018.1-3.6-------10/02:00pm17.4SSE48571017.9 


Holy crap! That is some seriously scary stuff. I've been in 50 knots once - in a squall while still at the slip. The wind alone scared the pants off me. Take the slip away, add mountains of water to that...I'd be crying like a school girl...regardless of the boat.


----------



## St Anna

smackdaddy said:


> Holy crap! That is some seriously scary stuff. I've been in 50 knots once - in a squall while still at the slip. The wind alone scared the pants off me. Take the slip away, add mountains of water to that...I'd be crying like a school girl...regardless of the boat.


We were in a 46', not 27' and; No you would keep it together if you had to, just like the rest of us! I would be out of my comfort zone lead climbing anything I couldn't see over! After all, your married with kids. You can handle pain! Just please keep your dacks on!! Thats the scary comment.


----------



## Maxboatspeed

Smackster - thanks!

Ok - I hit the link. Great story (BFS). It got me going again. Thanks!

Sooo.....
Good story. I have the utmost respect for this guy, his handling of stuff, his knowledgable opinion, and more. I love the story and detail.

It makes me want to comment 'cause it's a good story.
Simply:
I like that the guy is making a statement (backed up) about his thoughts re: saiboat design, how he has changed his thoughts because he saw new stuff. 

Sailboats
Fast is good
Built to handle whatever you're gonna get into is good
Big engines can be cool.

Fast vs heavy(and other related ideas): great topic.
What is the boat for a person. Why.....

Lots of different ideas on what works best!!
Too much to consider here.
Anyway, good bfs.
Oh ya - Im thinking this:
A big part of sailing is getting.. Uh, that sometimes snit sucks.
Seasickiness can really suck.
Really. 

Dramamine (or similar, to my knowledge) helps to avoid seasickness. Yep, makes ya tired. Doesn't work well to take it after ya wanna puke.

Cool story. I love the stories of guys pushin their limits. 

Safe sailing
Max


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## Maxboatspeed

Here's more:
if ya wanna "get to where you're headed" by a certain time - here are obvious ideas:
Take a different form of transportation
or
Learn more about planning your trip - wx, route info, crew info, boat characteristics, blahblah
Accept wx delays.

Gimme more BFS


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## twinsdad

ST Anna, One question, why the assumption you wouldn't want to be in a multihull. Alot of research show them to be more capable in heavy winds/conditions. I currently own a 35' catamaran which replaced a 34' monohull. I take my cat out in conditions much rougher than I ever would have dared to do in the monohull, even with the wife and kids. I can only imagine their reaction to the heel and spray in 25kt winds on the old boat with that famous Long Island Sound chop!!!!


----------



## St Anna

twinsdad said:


> ST Anna, One question, why the assumption you wouldn't want to be in a multihull. Alot of research show them to be more capable in heavy winds/conditions. I currently own a 35' catamaran which replaced a 34' monohull. I take my cat out in conditions much rougher than I ever would have dared to do in the monohull, even with the wife and kids. I can only imagine their reaction to the heel and spray in 25kt winds on the old boat with that famous Long Island Sound chop!!!!


Hi Twinsdad, how are things going?

Yeah, just an assumption, based on a single previous experience. On a 42' cat, I've been in about 30-35kn, and about 2-3m seas. It was scary as the wavelength of the seas seemed to be about the same as the beam and the lenght of the cat. Even the owner was concerned and he had done some miles in her.

The motion was what I would describe as like 'walking', with the leeward hull trying to catch up into the swell.

So, this stuff was worse and we just plowed through, on a heel. Boat was fine and so were we. The boat has been through worse before I got her.

Could you point me to the research, because I have an open mind, but am skeptical. I once owned a calypso cat (like a hobie but of course better, faster etc etc ) I have thrown it around a real lot in windy and choppy conditions, through surf and things like that.

On your cat in rough weather, do you have to work the rudders or can you just let the autopilot do all the work?


----------



## Maxboatspeed

*Big Cats are cool*

Yep. 40' (12M) modern cats rock!
I'm actually on the pro-cat side (kinda) this time.
Most (ya, I know) modern cruising cats are... Uh.. Capable of handling stuff. So.... This stuff includes a bunch about design and building advancement.
A well built modern cruising cat can take lots of slammin. Same as a good cruising mono.
So anyway a good 40' cruising cat can survive major snit. Talking about seas (water), swells, frequency, etc is... A thing worth considering.
10-16' swell is not gonna kill ya (3-5m)
10-16' seas (water?), on top? Well, if it's real, it's real bad. Did I read it wrong? You're saying 10m(30+ft) breakers? Your obs? It happens.
Still, even if you get in the wrong place, at the wrong time, you're good. Unless ya flip it.
I've learned you're still gonna be fine, flipped, cause cats don't sink. I learned that right here. I think there's been reliable studies, articles, adds, and stuff.
lots of guys say lots of stuff. I like reading it, even if most of it's bull. 
Safe sailing,
Max


----------



## twinsdad

Hi St Anna,

Things are good here, except sailing season is over. ): I will get some specific info for you on the research, but from short personal experience you can use the autopilot in the conditions I've been in. I have read that the autopilots work until real nasty weather. Has to do with the greater propensity of a cat to stick to more of a straight course, and the effect of twin rudders. Will come back to you on the research, but I don't want to make this a cat vs mono thing since I like sailing both.


----------



## St Anna

twinsdad said:


> Hi St Anna,
> 
> Things are good here, except sailing season is over. ): I will get some specific info for you on the research, but from short personal experience you can use the autopilot in the conditions I've been in. I have read that the autopilots work until real nasty weather. Has to do with the greater propensity of a cat to stick to more of a straight course, and the effect of twin rudders. Will come back to you on the research, but I don't want to make this a cat vs mono thing since I like sailing both.


Hiya TD,

Sailing season over - for winter I guess. We are about to go into summer, but have had just rotten weather (as I posted before)

OK, I get the twin rudders keeping a course for the auto, it was ust the lighter weight and course keeping stuff. My little beach cat used to get treated badly but jeez it was fun.

I, also definetely dont want to cause another debate over # of hulls. [I just like the comments that SD and I sometimes throw to each other over it- never meant to ignite dramas] Maybe we should 'pm' if it may cause grief.

Anyway, have fun, dont get too cold!
regards


----------



## u4ea

*Libera Classe in a Thunderstorm*

This story has to do with both the verb and the noun: sailing Libera Classe boats in a summer thunderstorm on Chiemsee in Bavaria, e.g., central Europe just north of the Alps. This happened in the summer of 1986.

For those not familiar with the Libera Classe, they are boats that are limited only by the most basic constraints: the boat must be trailerable, so the mast must be less than 20 meters, the hull 40 feet long and 2.5 meters wide. Monohulls, with racks that are not more than 2.5 meters.

The boat I raced on, for example, was a cold molded wood hull much like a Soling but 35 feet long, 2.5 meters (8 feet) beam. It had racks on each side that were aluminum frames with trampolines. The racks were 2.5 meters (8 feet) to each side, and went from the mast aft to the transom. The mast was from some IOR race boat, was multi-spreader aluminum 20 meter (66 feet!). The number 1 masthead genoa was tacked to the bow and sheeted to the corner of the transom. The main, with a lot of roach, was about 2 feet off the deck and also sheeted to a traveller at the top of the transom. Downwind, the big runner chute when full and drawing still kissed the surface of the water, with a "penalty pole" about 10 feet beyond the bow.

This one summer day, we were headed upwind in about 12 knots of breeze, with that big number 1, full main, with the entire 12 man crew on trapeze off the racks. And to get maximum stability, we did a pyramid, such that 6 had their feet on the racks, 4 stood on those shoulders, and the two of us (who were lightest and usually were responsible for trim) would be on the shoulders of those. The crew were all big men, most of the Olympic Star sailors for Germany, so probably 5 feet from sole to shoulder. So my head was about 4+8+5+5+5.5=2.7.5 feet from centerline!

As one would expect, we had pretty good upwind speed. In fact, we were about a knot or more faster than a Tornado upwind! Probably about 12 knots very close hauled.

There was a similar boat near us on this beat. The boat was new, carbon, and had integrated solid wings on each side, rather than the racks like we had. We were having a hell of a competitive series.

Central Europe, like the middle of the USA, has dramatic thunderstorms during the summer. These storms develop rapidly and can be violent. Therefore, the lakes all have towers around them with very bright strobe lights that go off when a thunderstorm is approaching.

The strobes went off!

We immediately put on life jackets, and dropped ALL sail as fast as we could. The Libera near us also dropped their sails. Then the front hit with perhaps 40 knots of breeze, hitting RIGHT NOW. The lake was covered with spume, low level spray flying horizontal.

The other Libera demonstrated why solid wings are a bad idea -- those wings were effectively unreefable sail area. The breeze got under those wings and lifted the ENTIRE 40' BOAT up into the air, and it started tumbling down the lake. All the crew were thrown off. Over and over that 40 footer went!


----------



## St Anna

*U4EA*

Wow, something to remember. It would also have been a very cool experience to be a part of that, sailing in those lakes. Wonderful stuff.


----------



## sailingdog

Multihulls tend to have fewer handling problems and are less likely to broach in heavy weather due to the multiple hulls allowing the boat hold a track and no asymetric hull shape leading to massive weather helm and a tendency to turn the boat that happens when a monohull heels heavily.

However, no boat should be run in heavy weather under autopilot. Autopilots can not react to the quickly changing conditions found in most storms. The recent capsize of an Atlantic 57 catamaran was attributed to several factors, one of which was being under autopilot at the time of the accident. Another factor in the capsize was the fact that the sheets were locked and NO ONE was at the helm to release them when the 60+ knot gust hit the boat. If the mainsail had been released or the boat had been steered to ease the pressure on the sails, there is a good chance that the boat would NOT HAVE CAPSIZED.



twinsdad said:


> Hi St Anna,
> 
> Things are good here, except sailing season is over. ): I will get some specific info for you on the research, but from short personal experience you can use the autopilot in the conditions I've been in. I have read that the autopilots work until real nasty weather. Has to do with the greater propensity of a cat to stick to more of a straight course, and the effect of twin rudders. Will come back to you on the research, but I don't want to make this a cat vs mono thing since I like sailing both.


----------



## Maxboatspeed

Thanks U4EA!!
Cool story! Extreme sailing for sure. Libera class? Wow!
86? Cool. a lot of great, wild, and new stuff. We (yanks) didn't get into that era of big, extreme, badass, sponsored, new tech, "dinghy" racing.
I'd love to see it. I guess you didn't have a mini helmet cam?
Competition in open classes, and spectator support, has resulted in huge advancements in boat design(too much to list).
Ya, wings have a pretty limited wind range. It's sucks having too much sail. It must really suck to know there's no way to reduce sail - knowing you're about to get an arsekickin.
I think I'll look for vids of Libera, Aussie 18, unlim 40s, etc
by the way - all boats are different. I like considering all of it.
I'm not anti-multi. It ain't multi vs mono - to me. 

I look forward to more cool BFS.
Max


----------



## smackdaddy

Very nice u4. Are you still in Europe?

I assume this is is the modern version of what you sailed?



















That is crazy cool. Great BFS dude. Thanks.

And welcome to SN.


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## chall03

*In Progress BFS....and some philosophising!*

Hey All,

I am writing this onboard at the end of a sail up the Aussie coast from Port Jackson(Sydney Harbour) back into Broken Bay our home port.

We had about 30-35 knots when we set out, with rough seas but luckily the swell has been minimal, and the wind has been easing. We actually agonised over the decision to depart and delayed it several times until we were comfortable. I guess this then is ummm a BFS?

Maybe it is the sunset, the salt or the sea.......too much Man v Wild or perhaps the Gin and Tonic I have now allowed myself, but as I sail along I have been pondering this whole BFS philosophy.

What has hit me most is the just enormous chasm between the reality of being out here in this.......the actual experience, the sore muscles, the rawness of the wind on your face and having to back your own ability versus how easy and theoretical it all may sound when one either types or reads it on the internet or out of some great cruising book. This stuff can be frightening!

Now I am definitely an advocate of BFS but not BL ( Blind Lunacy).

I believe what we did today was the former not the later, but there are others who may disagree...

What we had going for us today, the factors that I believe add up to make the difference between a BFS and BL were the following...

1) My wife and I understand and have studied basic Meteorology. We monitored and understood the weather and were comfortable with the situation before we set out. We knew we were on the back of the front and that conditions were easing.

2)I am 100% confident in my boats ability to meet the conditions. The rigging is in A1 condition and was inspected by ME prior to this trip or any trip. The engine though old and gutless is reliable. The boat is solid and I know how to sail her.

3) I am confident in our ability as sailors to face these conditions. We have gradually built our experience over the years, we don't panic when things get all noisy and bumpy.

Still though the reality is that we could of sailed back tomorrow morning in a forecasted 15 knots. So what we did was a calculated risk, taken because we wanted to build our experience further....all in all it was worked well, but I guess the reality is that it may also not have.


----------



## St Anna

Chall,

"_What has hit me most is the just enormous chasm between the reality of being out here in this.......the actual experience, the sore muscles, the rawness of the wind on your face and having to back your own ability"_

You've been there now. Next time you see a forecast or see the wind speed reach 35kn, you'll remember- that you guys were fine. [only because of good seamanship, a sound boat and experienced crew, with quiet self confidence].

If you are ever up this way, I would be very happy to shout you a drink and hear all about it.

with respect
VMQ9575


----------



## smackdaddy

Chall...as far as I'm concerned, you absolutely, completely NAILED what BFS is all about.

I really wish I could have been with you guys.

Killer BFS dude. The Supersouthies ARE IN DA HOUSE!


----------



## Maxboatspeed

Chal - thanks,
Cool BFS. Here's what comes to my mind. Good job of explaining stuff.
I think guys might want to learn from this forum. So...
Again, my mind - these points are great!
You thought it all out.
Confident in your plan, based on solid thinking. Cool that you mentioned wx window, boat, crew ability, and that you thought out the whole deal.
You considered all factors. You're confident that you know what to consider.
For others:
Wx fcast is uh.... A thing (us). Areas vary. 
Fcast of 30 means ya better know more about stuff.
Unless you're cool with 60.

A side story:
fcast was 30-35, 12'
4 hrs later, my wx obs report was 40-50, gusts 65, 28' to NWS
2hrs later, fcast hadn't changed. 
I was in it.
The next day I asked (local wx guy) why they didn't even mention how bad it really was?
He said that the official forecast comes from NWS HQ(Fla) and he couldn't alter it. Even if he knew it ain't right. He'd be happy to share all- one to one, and off the record.
My reply: That's FUd. What about the little guys making life/death decisions thinking the fcast is solid? 
We agreed that guys workin central-western AK know wx enough to live. Or not.
No matter where you are(almost) wx is what it's about. 

Max


----------



## Maxboatspeed

I forgot this:
Chal,
whatcha sailing and where? Just curious.
Max


----------



## u4ea

Smack,

No longer in Europe, back in the States.

Too bad we didn't have video cams useful on boats back then. One of the guys I race with a lot in Hawaii always brings his vcam, and he's posted a bunch of good big wind, big sea, big speed on youtube. I'll try and track down a few links...


----------



## chall03

Maxboatspeed said:


> I forgot this:
> Chal,
> whatcha sailing and where? Just curious.
> Max


We are based in Sydney, Australia. My boat is an Aussie design, a supersonic 27, an IOR influenced cruiser/racer from the late 70's. We are currently boat shopping for a new boat a the moment.....

I couldn't agree with you more when you say if the forecast says 30 knots, be ready for 60 knots.

I have had a previous experience where the forecast said 25 knots, and we got up to 40....It was made worse by the fact that I was also skippering a boat that was not mine.

In that situation, We were very much caught with our pants down. I particularly was complacent, my wife(an experienced racing sailor) luckily shook me to action as we watched the wind speed climb way above the foecast. It was a lesson lean't I won't soon forget.

In the situation on the past weekend though, I knew it was a passing front, it was blowing in the 30's for hours, but we waited deliberately until we knew it was at it worst and easing before departing, this signalled the back of the front. I would not have under any circumstances departed on or before the front had hit, or until I knew what it was up to.

I guess what I am saying is that there is alot of difference between 30 knots and easing and a 30 knot don't really know forecast....it is also important to say here to novie sailors that above 30 knots wind is unpredictable and well ferocious. You are basically just taking degrees of terror....


----------



## Maxboatspeed

*Thanks chal*

Chal03,

Thanks again. I think you are great at telling your stories (BFS?) and explaining stuff. I love that. I know that you know, and "get it." I think that many guys don't know.
So... I make comments that might (or not) be worth thinking about. To anyone and everyone. Especially, I'm thinking about reader guys that want advice. 
Chal - thanks. For your cool stuff and backin me.
I guess I'll skip talking wx again.

So.. What's the boat? (sorry, you may have said). '80ish 1 ton?Aussie build/design? When, where, who? Are you cruising?
I'm 48N, 122W (WA, USA). You?

Safe sailing,
Max


----------



## chall03

Thanks Max, and your comments were right on the money I think...

Our boat is a Scott Kaufman design....
we are 33S 151E(Sydney, Australia)


----------



## Maxboatspeed

*A story*

I'm thinkin I owe a story.
Here's one:
once upon a time (late 80s, fall), in a far away place (ME,USA), a very gusty day (18-25, gusts 30ish), in the harbor(harbour), a college team raced lasers (and more) in house. Ordinarily this regatta only includes team members. 
So.. An outsider was let into the game. Kinda a short guy. Bad shape too!
Shorty thought he was screwed: can't beat these tall guys in this wind. Second thought (start sequence): shorty smiled cause he knew big wind is fun. He knew 3-4, of 15, could even deal. Gotta think outside their box. Port tack start, pin end (favored, shifty), ahead of all - a grin. Rounding the wx mark 3rd is ok - 4th ain't far behind. 1&2 are tall, good sailors. No one else in the game.
So....wind is up, gusty, some shift, running, 30ish, all out planing. 1st, 2nd pull their boards high. Shorty starts to pull his a bit as a big gust hits. 4th pulls his high too, and crashes hard 1st. Shorty drops his board (etc). 1&2 crash right in front of shorty. So..... 2 boats, 2 masts, 2 guys to avoid - while planing downwind fast, tryin not to crash. It was one of those times split second reaction is a thing. Running over these guys was the biggest concern. That concern lasted about 2 seconds.

Yah! Missed em, no one got hurt! Smiles again.
Also - 1st place, "I'm cool cause I get big wind better", "these guys must wanna know what I know" - were things shorty thought and was proud of.
The team (coach too) didn't want shorty to play anymore. Ok - the two top guys did want shorty playing. They all knew it was about learning from other guys. Even when you're not on the same page.
Safe sailin
Max


----------



## optikul81

Maxboatspeed said:


> Here's one for ya:
> I heard a call on the VHF when in the Strts of JDF. It went something like this:
> "the *********** vessel, bearing 078, range 3000 yards, this is Navy unit 23"
> No reply
> then he repeated the call, and demanded the this small boat alter course and get out of his way.
> I got a good laugh that day.
> Max


That is funny but also understandable when you're part of the piloting party on the submarine. Our officers are not used to being on the surface using VHF radio's and talking to non navy units. They get used to sending/receiving reports of this vessel bearing such and such and this many yards...

That brings up one of my pet peev's... when we are transitting through the Strts of JDF we have had some close calls because people see a submarine coming at them and panic! Kind of like a policemen rolling on up behind them.. Don't panic, just follow the rules of the road! We are required to obey them just like you regardless if we have WMD's or not. If you are confused just hail us and we'll respond...

EZ Day!

Chris

"Best Marine is a Submarine"


----------



## Maxboatspeed

Hey swabbie Chris,

Since you bothered to pull up old stuff, I'm gonna reply. Maybe the laser sailing story was worth tellin? I think my story may have been about passing arangements?
Anyway, no disrespect intended. Thank you. Submariner?
I wish that I could express my respect and appreciation! You guys are the best. The job you guys do is.... Beyond words.

No, it wasn't a sub making the call.

I know the rules. I know about radio standards. I know 3000 yrds is 1.5 nm. I know it's rediculous to think a guy will respond to "boat bearing ---".
Sorry if ya felt dissed. That isn't my intention.
I know that most people dont have my experience making passing arrangements. I'll go ahead and include 90% of US navy officers with that. It's about safe navigation and the real world.
By the way, claiming that you've had a bunch of close calls because "they panic" is.... ah... 
Thanks
max


----------



## optikul81

Max! I didn't feel dissed at all! That wasn't the intention of my post! 

I wasn't commenting on the laser sailing story....

Kinda hard to convey feelings through text.. but I was just trying to state that with everything that goes on inside the boat and outside.. it can get confusing and sometimes the officers ( or enlisted ) can make simple mistakes like that. Although there is usually someone there to back them up. If it wasn't a sub.. well then.. those skimmers are at it again! 

Oh and when I say "close call" I mean they are within a certain distance to our boat that warrants more scrutiny than normal. I guess i'm not very articulate and need to choose my words better. "Close Calls" dont happen very often and it's small stuff like we had a pleasure craft that was a stand-on vessel just cut off their engines and go dead in the water right on our intended track.. now they were still a couple miles out so there was no risk of collision and we altered course to avoid them. Just little things like that....


----------



## Maxboatspeed

Cool -
I try to communicate. VHF and here. I'm better with VHF. Here - I ponder, think about related stuff, forget what the question is, bring up stuff that comes to mind.
I get that you get it.
Thanks for taking the time to explain stuff. Yes!
I've talked to lots of "skimmers" (couple subs too). I know I'm talking to folks in training (maybe not on subs). Sometimes there is a long pause. I smile, knowing they're talking to the watch officer. I know they are learning how to do it.
I train guys too. I try not to laugh as they stumble, and say stupid snit on the radio. Then, I try to tell them my thoughts.

Max - out


----------



## smackdaddy

Chutzpah...

Hold Fast on Vimeo

I love these chumps.


----------



## smackdaddy

Holy crap! Go the Gulfies!

Ever wonder what happens when you drop your keel-stepped stick?



















Sounds like the Harvest Moon Regatta was an exciting race. And, unfortunately, expensive for _Mystique._



> Rig came down at about 3:00 AM, ~65 - 66 miles, from Port Aransas turning mark, 0.9 miles south of rhumb line Jettisoned rig into the Gulf and motored 20 miles to the Matagorda Channel and parked the boat in Port O'Conner. No standing rigging failure (stays), mast buckled to windward just above the base of the rigid boom vang above deck. Because the mast was keel stepped, the deck damage was large. When mast failed it sank into the boat, the rigid vang essentially going through the deck, then mast falling off to the water, perpendicular to the starboard side of the boat to leeward. Reefed main and 95% blade jib up, doing about 7.5 knots over the bottom close reaching. No warning, just a "slow motion" splintering of fiberglass and mast sinking into the boat, then falling over the side. What was probably a matter of about 10-20 seconds seemed like a minute or more, all slow motion like. All safe, no one hurt."


RTB - do you know these guys?


----------



## sailjunkie

Smack, the one word that best describes that is "ouch!"

Just wondering how much damage before the boat is declared a write-off.


----------



## blt2ski

That is an ouch smack!

Had a good last race of the halloween series my club has, managed to end the season with a bullet and correct 1st in division. Three weeks ago a 5th of 9 that raced out of 11 registered. Now if there would have been one more, the fleet would have been split, with me getting 2 bullet/crrect firsts and a 2nd both actual and corrected. Third race was the only race a boat slower than me corrected over....

marty


----------



## smackdaddy

FIRST PLACE??? That's...like...winning!

Very nice Bluto!!!


----------



## chall03

sailjunkie said:


> Smack, the one word that best describes that is "ouch!"
> 
> Just wondering how much damage before the boat is declared a write-off.


My guess would be about that much.


----------



## Kacper

My latest BFS...

My latest BFS almost ended my life and ended up in the hospital, here's how it happened.

1 Year ago I went sailing single handed, as I often do on a Catalina Capri 24' from the local club, out in English Bay, Vancouver, BC.

A friend was going to go with me, but he canceled last minute due to his wife getting ill. What's a sailor to do?

I hadn't sailed at that point for well over a year, and just recently became a father of a little baby girl, the shock that parenting had delivered to my life-style was so extreme, I had to get out of the house and I wanted to get out on the water, I wasn't about to not go just because my friend canceled.

It was the middle of October, cold, and blowing moderately, 10-20 knots from the NW, I decided to go for it, fully confident in my single handling abilities...

I was about to get a lesson of a life-time...

After ordering some yummy fish burgers to eat on the boat I motored into the bay and raised sail. Instantly they sails filled with great wind and we were tacking North back-and forth, with rail in the water. I was having a blast.

about 1.5 hours in the wind picked up and I was getting hungry, too lazy to reef at that moment, I decided to heave to and have my fish burgers. It's always so deceptive when you heave to as things get so calm... The boat righted herself and we were bobbing up and down on big Ocean Swells, along with occasional steep 4' waves. I delighted in my food and watched the sun slowly fall towards the west as I reflected on my amazing sailing abilities.

Suddenly... I began to get queasy - something that doesn't happen often to me, especially not in the bay. I figured it was because I hadn't sailed for so long. I decided to call it a day, not wanting to return my lunch to the Sea via up-chucking.

The winds were now blowing a steady 15-25N from the NW, and I turned down wind.

I began gybing to work my way around the many cargo tankers parked in the bay.

The trouble with the Capri is that the winches are very far forward away from the tiller, gybing and tacking the genoa is always a juggling act. I had worked out a system where I gyve the main first, then tie the tiller and jump forward quickly to un-fasten the sheet on one winch and fasten it up on the next.

Being a small boat, the boom is at head level...

(you can see where this is going)

I was getting more and more queasy. We were on a collision course with a peer on Jerico beach about half a mile out and it was time to gybe again and get on a port broad reach around the last cargo tanker.

I gybed the main, things looked good, I quickly prepped the other jib sheet around the winch so I could simply release the port one and immediately tighten the starboard jib sheet. all ready... time to jump forward for a split second and undo the port sheet... lets tie the tiller.

Naw, lets not tie the tiller, I can just jump forward for half a second... (feeling queasy trying to avoid looking down too much)

*CRACK!*

There was only a split second for me to realize what was happening before I heard the sound of the boom hitting me square on the face at the typical whiplash "accidental gybe" speed, and in that split second a relaxing sail turned into a fight for my life.

My skull went flying back and twisting to the left along with the rest of my body being thrown a good 2 feet of my legs.

A few seconds later I came to. An incredibly sharp and mind-numbing pain through my entire head. Blood dripping everywhere.

I am hanging over the port beam, half my body draping over the boat, arms included. I feel my consciousness slip away from me as I watch my hat in the water get further and further away from me, blood dripping down into the water.

Those few seconds seemed to last forever, in a type of surreal slow motion. My head was hit so hard I had no idea what was going on, all I felt was the incredible pain which had taken over my entire being, everything was a haze and my vision seemed to be really fuzzy. Oh the pain!

I hung there motion-less, unable to move or think... when suddenly, with what felt like all the strength I had left in me I conjured a thought...

"Focus! You have to focus now or you'll die!"

Adrenaline came into my body and I managed to grab hold of a winch with my right hand and somehow clumsily slip back into the ****-pit.

I was now in a state of shock, with adrenaline coursing through my blood. Fighting to remain my consciousness, which seemed to be slipping from me every second as the fuzzy tunnel around my vision got narrowed and narrowed.

I remember sitting there, all I could do was stare blankly at a spot in front of me, unable to make sense of anything, unable to grab a hold of anything tangible in my brain, not a thought, not a perspective, definitely not the ability to look around and trying to make sense of what was happening.

I think the pain saved me. Minutes later a big secondary wave of sharp pain shot through my nose and into the back of my skull. It was more painful than before, yet somehow, sobering.

I let out a loud grunt of pain that sounded something like "aRGhhth!!!"

And another thought, which somehow aligned the entire fubar brain-state I was in into something manageable...

"Focus!"

I said the words over and over again, but through my messed up bloody face what came out of my mouth sounded more like "pokoollsth

I looked down and the cockpit floor was covered in blood.

My hands went up to my face to check for damage... PAIN! AARGGH! Hands covered in blood! A fresh stream of blood came trickling out of my nose. I came to the conclusion that all the blood must have been from my nose. I noticed some tissue laying around from the food earlier and put it up to my nose and looked up to try to stop the bleeding.

Since I looked up, for the first time in maybe 15 minutes I got to look at the boat, sails were flying everywhere, sheets were whip-lashing back and forth, there was an awful lot of noise. Normally this would make sense, but I had absolutely no idea what was going on.

Then I looked to land... and saw that we were on a dead-on collision course with the dock on Jerico beach (since the boat jibed back to the original course) *Danger!* have to do something...

It's hard to describe a post-concussion brain state. I could now clearly(more or less) see everything that was going on in-front of me. But I was unable to comprehend any of it.

I knew I had to do something, but I didn't know how to do it.

The genoa had somehow wrapped itself around the forestay 3 times and all the sheets were stuck on stanchions and tangled up.

I stared and stared and stared at the fore-stay trying to make sense of it. No joy, my mind was just blank.

The simple task of figuring out what to do was like trying to solve a rubiks cube. I looked at the tiller and something in me knew I had to push it, but in what direction I had no idea.

Now dangerously close to the dock, the boat hurtling at it at 7 knots.

It took me forever to figure out which direction to move the tiller in, I started visualizing the tiller and the rudder, and finally got the boat pointed
away from danger.

After I gybed it took another good 30 minutes of me sitting there and staring into the abyss of consciousness until I was able to slowing crawl on hands and feet to the forestay to untangle the genoa.

The process was extremely painful as my skull throbbed, but the thought "focus, focus, focus" kept on repeating in my head.

I made it back to the dock, someone was there to help me tie the boat up (no way in hell I could tie a knot at that point)

In the end... it was a very broken nose and a very minor but powerful enough head injury.

It's incredible how in just 1 second of shear stupidity and lack of carefulness can not only end your day, but potentially your life. I was very lucky to not have fallen over-board when the boom hit me. Had I went over, there's no doubt(having described clearly what happened to my state of mind) that I'd be dead within minutes in the ice-cold October water here in BC.

Just one foot more and my little girl wouldn't have a father.

I never single-hand anymore, not until I my girl is 18+ yearsold and has gotten tired of her Dad.

Kacper


----------



## captbillc

Kacper--- i had a jibe in september ( labor day here in the USA) , but not half as bad as yours. it was blowing 30 NE down lake superior. i was sailing north in superior bay with reefed sails, toe rail in the water. my youngest daughter was with me (62) . i was heading back to the marina, up the st. louis river. when i turned west to go under the blatnick bridge i rolled in the genny and swung the main way out to port. several miles later i went under the bong bridge and headed for the grassy point swing bridge. i was right on the edge of a jibe. i know very well i should have rigged a preventer or turned around and rolled down the main, but i had only about a half mile to go before i would turn west to sail up the river. as i passed the swing bridge it blocked part of the wind, then the boom suddenly came across. i tried to stop it amidships but it hit me in the back of the neck. then i turned around and rolled down the main. i was not bleeding but i got a concussion and went to the hospital for a cat scan. i had some blood on the brain and headaches for two weeks, but i don't have them now. you would think at my age (88) i would know better than to take a chance like that.


----------



## smackdaddy

Now those are two smackdowns! Great stories guys.

Kac - in reconstructing your boom slap with AutoCad I think I tracked down the thing that set off the "event cascade" which lead to your jibe-induce skull cracking. It was those damn fish burgers. Dude, everyone knows you don't eat fish burgers on a boat less than 28' in length!

And cap - at 88, you are simply THE MAN!!! Blowing off a subdural hematoma like it was a mosquito bite. Epic.


----------



## Maxboatspeed

Kacper & Capbill,

great stories!! I'm glad you both lived to tell them!
I know you guys are topnotch sailors and snit happens.

I feel like chiming in with a "safety meeting." In other words - points that we all (newbie-ancient) might want to consider.
So....

1. (basic for newer guys) gettin hit by the boom while gybing can easily be deadly. Even in "little" boats.
Getting hit in the head - 20'+ boat, 15+ knots, uncontrolled gybe=death!

2. Single handing adds risk. Exactly like solo climbing, skiing backcounty alone, hiking alone, diving without a buddy, etc. 
Injuries, or equipment problems, can be 100x worse when you're alone.
Thinking, planning, caution, understanding the risks, handling "emergencies", and not getting smacked in the head by the boom, can be 100x more important when your alone.

3. Solo - MOB (falling in)=death. Kinda like falling off a 100' cliff. I like to remind myself of that!
Same deal if no one else on the boat can save your (my) arse.

4. Consider emergency resources. What is available, Contacting them, getting the help you may need - on the water. Every little kid knows how to dial 911 from home(US). It's not simple on the water. Depends on where ya are.
When you're hurt bad, you know it's gettin worse, and you want help - using all your resources can save your arse.

5. Calling mayday: do it when you need to.

So... Kacpar - nice, you made it!
Van has great resources. Harbour CG w/EMTs, 50 knt fireboat/hovercraft, great VTS (ch12), small workboats everywhere. If you think you gonna die, help is close. 
The seas can be nasty: current against wind.
Good story. Thanks again
Max


----------



## twinsdad

I agree with most of what Max said, except I have a different take on solo sailing. I frequently sail solo, and I think the danger level is exaggerated. I would argue that my sailing solo, but sailing safely, is alot safer than some reckless sailors in a group.

The keys for me is that in my area, there tend to be other leisure boats around without too much traffic (and relatively little commercial traffic).

Anyway, keep the stories coming, because we in the Northeast have to sail vicariously through the rest of you.


----------



## Maxboatspeed

twinsdad said:


> I agree with most of what Max said, except I have a different take on solo sailing. I frequently sail solo, and I think the danger level is exaggerated. I would argue that my sailing solo, but sailing safely, is alot safer than some reckless sailors in a group.
> 
> The keys for me is that in my area, there tend to be other leisure boats around without too much traffic (and relatively little commercial traffic).
> 
> Anyway, keep the stories coming, because we in the Northeast have to sail vicariously through the rest of you.


Yah - Maybe I over exaggerated. I solo sail too. Often, I write stuff aimed at guys starting out. I think we are on the same page?
A point I left out is this: any operator (capt, solo or not) has things to consider. It's your choice, and yours alone.
-Sailing to Block Is in the summer with the kids, solo cruising LI sound
-Solo around the world at 16
-day sailing, kite boarding, windsurfing, etc
-learning to sail by trial and error.
-seasoned solo sailors 
all great stuff.

Do whatever you want. There is stuff to consider.
Reading Kacper's story reminded me of stuff to consider.

He told a great story. He's obviously an accomplished solo sailor. He almost died. He knew what he was doing and knows the cautious steps he skipped.

I solo sail (40'). I've sailed 40 yrs. Believe me, bad snit is a lot worse when you're alone.
Max


----------



## smackdaddy

How well can you drive your boat?






These guys definitely don't suck.


----------



## twinsdad

Max, I think we are definitely on the same page. You really spelled out the choices very well on your last post.


----------



## birdpepper

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## smackdaddy

Yeah, I recognize you...despite the sunglasses and gimme cap. Sorry, no freeloading and passing out in this bar pal. Got BFS? Get em out!

(Jeff_H, hide the peanuts.)


----------



## chall03

smackdaddy said:


> How well can you drive your boat?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These guys definitely don't suck.


Ouch.........I had to watch it twice cause I kept closing my eyes.


----------



## HDChopper

Holy big freakin docking ! 
Thats crazy man ...


----------



## sailjunkie

HDChopper said:


> Holy big freakin docking !
> Thats crazy man ...


Too true!


----------



## blackjenner

smackdaddy said:


> How well can you drive your boat?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These guys definitely don't suck.


Over at SA, they said this was "nothing but sheer, blind, luck" or some sort. I disagree.

Sure, the conditions are really awful. But that harbor entrance is much larger than the seems in this video. Remember, you are looking at the harbor entrance from almost a 45 degree angle.

The helmsman does know how to drive his boat and, want to bet he does this often?


----------



## smackdaddy

blackjenner said:


> Over at SA, they said this was "nothing but sheer, blind, luck" or some sort. I disagree.
> 
> Sure, the conditions are really awful. But that harbor entrance is much larger than the seems in this video. Remember, you are looking at the harbor entrance from almost a 45 degree angle.
> 
> The helmsman does know how to drive his boat and, want to bet he does this often?


I agree. Look at his set-up right before the wave carries him in. He's actively angling the boat to set up for the next wave. Then, he actively steers a clean run when he starts to surf. He knows what he's doing.

The biggest giveaway is that the bowman is hanging out at the forestay. He's either astronomically stupid - or this isn't their first rodeo.

Either way - freakin' impressive.


----------



## erps

> The biggest giveaway is that the bowman is hanging out at the forestay. He's either astronomically stupid - or this isn't their first rodeo.


Have to survive the first rodeo to get good at it though.


----------



## captbillc

smack---- today is the anniversary of the sinking of the edmund fitzgerald that inspired gordon lightfoot's song. did you see the vidio? anyone who sails on lake superior has to keep a watch on the weather. in 1982 i was on the silvania , about 600 ft long. we were heading west around the keweenaw peninsula into a stiff NW blow in december. the propeller was coming out of the water & the ship was twisting and bending in the middle


----------



## captbillc

i just checked the date i was on the silvania. it was 1952 not 1982


----------



## smackdaddy

captbillc said:


> smack---- today is the anniversary of the sinking of the edmund fitzgerald that inspired gordon lightfoot's song. did you see the vidio? anyone who sails on lake superior has to keep a watch on the weather. in 1982 i was on the silvania , about 600 ft long. we were heading west around the keweenaw peninsula into a stiff NW blow in december. the propeller was coming out of the water & the ship was twisting and bending in the middle


Holy crap bill. That is some seriously frightening power. What makes the lakes so much "worse" than the ocean (relatively)? Is it the depth vs. fetch?


----------



## jaschrumpf

The average depths of the Great Lakes is not all that great. Superior has the largest average depth at 483' and Erie the least at 62'. You can image the boxy waves you'd get with Superior's fetch. And I don't even wanna think about Erie's 62' and hurricane winds blowing along its length.

Sounds like the Chesapeake multiplied a hundred times.


----------



## smackdaddy

Jeez - that is scary. 62 feet - and it can still stack up 20'+ waves?!?!

Anyone know the biggest waves recorded on the lakes?


----------



## jaschrumpf

Forget waves on Erie -- think seiches.

From Wikipedia:

"Seiches are often imperceptible to the naked eye, and observers in boats on the surface may not notice that a seiche is occurring due to the extremely long wavelengths. The effect is caused by resonances in a body of water that has been disturbed by one or more of a number of factors, _most often meteorological effects_ (wind and atmospheric pressure variations)... [emphasis mine]

"Lake Erie is particularly prone to wind-caused seiches because of its shallowness and elongation. These can lead to extreme seiches of up to 5 m (16 feet) between the ends of the lake.

"...on July 13, 1995, a big seiche on Lake Superior caused the water level to fall and then rise again by three feet (one meter) within fifteen minutes, leaving some boats hanging from the docks on their mooring lines when the water retreated. The same storm system that caused the 1995 seiche on Lake Superior produced a similar effect in Lake Huron, in which the water level at Port Huron changed by six feet (1.8 m) over two hours. On Lake Michigan, eight fishermen were swept away and drowned when a 10-foot seiche hit the Chicago waterfront on June 26, 1954."

Water wants to kill us. All the time.


----------



## smackdaddy

Seriously fun day! Sun was shining. About 80 degrees. Winds 18 knots gusting to 25. Pure loveliness:



















The best part was that on the way back in I was "racing" a First 30. We were on parallel starboard tacks (close reach) about 60' apart - and he was upwind. The problem was that he kept pushing me down which was stalling the rudder a bit. At first I wasn't sure why he was doing it. Eventually he passed me about 20' off my bow (due to the rudder acting as a brake). I then pushed back up into the wind and left him quickly behind because I could point 6-8 degrees higher than he could.

When were back in the slip having a beer, that Bene's crew walked by and I mentioned how fast they looked as they were passing us and shook my fist at them. The skipper just said, "Well, we might have been faster but we couldn't point nearly as high as you, and you're here waiting on us."

C-27s are freakin' sweet!










We also took our 7 yo nephew out for his first sail. We was all about the v-berth:










Great day!


----------



## HDChopper

Looks exellent Smack !
A C-27 doing anything better than a First has to be rewarding . 


Looks like nephew found the softest driest lowest part of the boat to ride lol....


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## blackjenner

Dammit, Smack! It's 34 degrees here on Brigadoon. I've really wanted to go out all weekend but, there has been so much to do after moving on last week. So, the best I've had is BFW (20 or so from the south, shoving us against our end dock).

I'm glad you had a good time but I want to strangle you anyway.


----------



## NICHOLSON58

Forget waves on Erie -- think seiches.

Such an event is not uncommon on Lake Huron in the Saginaw Bay. A strong persistant SW wind will blow the bay (Shallow) out and a strong NE brings a flood. My father told me of people collecting stranded fish in the bay when he was a child. The boat I raced from the mouth of the Saginaw River was hanging from the dock lines one race day - cancelled because most could not get out. The largest waves I have sailed on were off Sleeping Bear point diring the 1981 Mac race. Winds built NE all day to a peak of 70 Knots and held there for 7-1/2 hours. We made less than 3 knots into it and lost sight of the mast lights of nearby boats in the troughs. Several boats lost masts. 1/4 of the fleet dropped out in safe harbors. We estimated crest heights of around 30 feet with about 120 feet crest to crest. 

We saw 18 footers at Muskegon in October with W to NW winds of 45 to 55 and a shorter fetch than in 1981. Waves at the Grand Haven harbor were breaking over the North light (36 feet) and also over the light house on the South wall (42 feet). In these conditions, you can neither enter or exit the harbor channels in most boats. The bore traveling into the channel will both throw boats over the wall and ground their keels. Even the Coast Guard stays home unless there is need for assistance. The two cross-lake ferries will also not venture out. On much of the West Michigan coast there is no where to run or hide if you are trapped by this situation. Only a few harbor entries such as Muskegon or Luddington have outer harbors defined by extended arms. If you can pass into the safe zone past the outer lights it becomes peaceful by about 200 yards up-river. We tried to exit Luddington with 12 footers comming in and almost fell short on power to buck the bore.


----------



## smackdaddy

Sorry Black. What can I say? Except...."Aaaaagggghhhikkk...." as you strangle me for spanking Bene Firsts on a beautiful fall day.

Nich - 120 feet from crest to crest??!?!?!?!?!?!? Holy crap that's sick! Are you running in the next Mac?

Who else is still sailing?

PS - I hear Napolean's pouting again.


----------



## NICHOLSON58

The last I checked, the race committee had raised the do-dad quotient so high as to prevent us from entering. Our boat has been around the planet twice and the junk required & redundant junk is a cost of about 10 kilobucks over our blue-water cruising gear. Its like a government bureau. I'd love to race it & we have several friends who would go but we might just pick a destination and cruise. I did it once - nothing to prove.


----------



## blt2ski

Maaybe sailing racing saturday......trying to decide, sail/race, or setup up boat with xmas lights after a late saturday evening or early sunday 30 mile motor back from the start area. May have to see how the winds/weather will be this weekend. If low winds, skip race, as 35 miles is tough in less than 10 knots of wind, even if one has 13 or so hrs to do it in. 

Or ski this weekend teaching.........hmmmmm....... joys of living in a reasonably mild climate area. Today would be a good day for a sail or golf!

Marty


----------



## smackdaddy

Heh-heh. Dude, I'm having a hard seeing the downside of any of those options.

Big Freakin' Sail? Big Freakin' Ski? Nice.


----------



## twinsdad

Here in the Northeast, no choice, it's Big Freakin' Ski time!


----------



## blt2ski

At this time, looks like we will be decorating the boat with lights etc sat, probably skiing sunday, or vise versa! The days have not been too bad either, might be a good time to get a round of 18 in too! no more sailing until after the new years with this lighting issue. could be worst I suppose!

Will see how we do with the BFL prizes saturday eve the 11th at the YC xmas party!

Marty


----------



## smackdaddy

Raise your glasses to BubbleheadMD/Ajax! He's definitely a very cool BFS Proponent (and leader of the SailC class in the Global Regatta BTW).

From a bit of spanking from the safety patrol back in the day to the front page of SA:

Sailing Anarchy Home Page

I'd say you've done okay. And you're not even dead yet!

Congrats dude. I like your style...you BFS Proponent you.


----------



## blt2ski

I liked the pic in the top article, with the snow storm last week here in PS. Had gale winds with snow coming down. I saw a few boats out during the thanksgiving week. I personally did not get out, the getting out of my marina would have been as hairy as I had seen it, with the northerly gale pushing waves right into the entry in the 4-6' range, any screw ups going in or out, and into the break water you go!

Congrats bubblehead!

Marty


----------



## HDChopper

Cheers bubblehead ! ...and your not even dead yet bawhahahahahaa


----------



## smackdaddy

Well it's about that time of year: BFS Cup 2010. Plumbean took it last year for the Easties. Who's going to get the bling this year?

If you've got a great sailing story now is the time to be throwing down here. We will pick and vote in a week or so for the one worthy of the Cup. 

Personally I vote for myself. I mean, hell, who sails a tornado and lives to brag about it? That's freakin' legend man. 

What you got?


----------



## smackdaddy

Sailing up to 700,000 years ago? Sailboats of the Stone Age?

So that's where ferro-cement hulls came from!

Man May Have Sailed the Seas 130K Years Ago - Humans may have used boats as many as 130K to 700K years ago

Here's to the Big Freakin' Hominids!


----------



## HDChopper

Thanks for my first laff of the day Smacky ! ferro boats come from BBAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA


----------



## smackdaddy

Just came across this on SA. 360 roll off Cape Horn.:



> From Bill KI4MMZ
> 
> KC2IOV Nereida Capt Jeanne
> Knocked down (Turtle upside down)
> Damage so far. 2249utc
> 55-59.68S 071-45.04W
> drifting S @ 2K hove to.
> boom broken,
> Hard dodger smashed.(gone)
> rope round prop.
> Chaotic below decks.
> Good news. Not injured
> has stay sail, + headsail.
> engine working.
> 
> Hopes weather will moderate in am and that rope cutter on prop works so
> she can motor round cape Horn and into nearest port for repairs.
> Will call on 14.300usdb if further please monitor, was only contact she
> cd make.
> 
> Have passed updated position and info to RCC Chile and USCG
> Evangalistas. Abodehornos Light houses and RCC Punta Arenas are trying
> to make contact direct on radio.
> 
> I have traffic from RCC Chile and USCG for her. will need assistance at
> net time 0300UTC though we had fair copy last night and this afternoon.
> 73
> End of message
> 
> I will keep all posted as I get information.
> Bill VE7WSM
> LinkRememberShare this!


Here's Jeanne's website:
Sailing Vessel Nereida - Welcome to my journeys

One tough boat. One tough chick.


----------



## smackdaddy

An update on Jeanne's knockdown and recovery:

Sailing Yacht Nereida - Days 72/73 Knockdown 1930Z Wed while hove-to.... some damage but mast still s



















Wow. I love this woman!


----------



## smackdaddy

*Some Truly Great BFSs in 2010*

As time winds down for the voting on the 2010 BFS Cup winner, I wanted to float some of the best (in my opinion) BFS Posts we've had over the last year. Read them, get stoked, and vote!

PCP (Eurpies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-168.html#post558196

Dulcitea (Westies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-168.html#post561068

CD - one of my personal faves (Gulfies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-169.html#post562308

Bubb, TJ and Hog (Easties):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-175.html#post574495

Kimberlite (?):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-175.html#post575536

Mackconsult (Westies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-177.html#post578625

SiXeven (Gulfies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-177.html#post579225

Doslocos (?)
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-177.html#post579336

Blackjenner (Westies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-178.html#post580021

PeterSailer (Supernorthies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-178.html#post583192

zz4gata (Easties):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-179.html#post587250

Sailormon6 (?)
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-180.html#post588447

FlyNavy (Lakie):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-182.html#post590552

TimofBlindSquirrel (Lakie):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-183.html#post598175

scraph (?):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-184.html#post600718

rmeador (Easties):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-184.html#post601267

sharps4590 (Lakies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-186.html#post608314

lans0012 (Gulfies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-186.html#post608675

zz4gta (Easties):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-187.html#post608698

emkay (Lakies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-188.html#post616978

GeorgeB (Westies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-189.html#post618160

DwayneSpeer (Westies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-189.html#post618410

Bubb's G-G-Grandad (Easties):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-191.html#post623294

sailordave (Easties):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-191.html#post625819

Omatako (Supersouthies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-192.html#post634606

Craigtoo (Easties):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-193.html#post635726

Smackdaddy The Epic (Lakies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-196.html#post645737

sailortjk1 (Lakies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-198.html#post646153

u4ea (Eurpies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-204.html#post654562

chall03 (Supersouthies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-204.html#post655016

Kacper (Supernorthies):
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...d/47351-big-freakin-sails-206.html#post662732

So which group of badass sailors is going to pull down the bling this year? The current standings have the Easties out front.

Two more weeks and it's Cup time!


----------



## HDChopper

Crap Omatako's pic's have been deleted Argggg , I missed them sounded like quite the BFS!

Kimberlite has a great BFS there alltho 4 years back


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - not sailing...but CRIKEY!

Just another day at the office?


----------



## smackdaddy

Look At This!!!!

The Gulfies FINALLY take one! Edging out the Easties for the Cup!!!

I've got tears in my eyes. This is such a proud moment.

The voting is over, and I don't think there's any doubt as to who will hold the cup for said Gulfies. It's gotta be CD.

CD, pm me an address to which I can ship the 2010 BFS Cup. I'll even send some 5200 so you can permanently glue it to your cabin top. I know it's a proud moment for you too.

Congrats Gulfies. Congrats CD and family. You guys definitely deserve it.


----------



## smackdaddy

I've mentioned this incredible lady in the Heavy Weather Sailing thread...but she belongs here as well since this thread gets a lot more traffic.

Jeanne Socrates - seriously gutsy sailor chick. She's on a solo-circ and was knocked down off Cape Horn sustaining some pretty heavy damage:



















She's now in Ushuaia awaiting equipment to finish repairing her boat before continuing on.

She's keeping a great blog, and has been very generous in replying to emails. Check it out here:

Sailing Yacht Nereida - Ushuaia update 10

She's what it's all about. Go Jeanne.


----------



## smackdaddy

Sailfow is predicting 15 to 20. Sun is shining. Upper 70s I'm outta here! Later suckas!


----------



## captbillc

hi smack...i am reading a book "Lake Superior Shipwrecks" by Dr. Julius F. Wolff Jr. over 3oo vessels lost, some with all hands in lake superior storms. over 1,000 persons lost their lives. gives you an idea how bad the weather can get.


----------



## NICHOLSON58

Not uncommon for straight line storms of 70 knots. Weather changes rapidly. Water is very cold even in June.


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay, you guys, you win. The only boat that has ever been lost on Lake Travis was when some dude got wicked gacked at Carlos-n-Charlies and forgot which slip he'd left it in. We're no Gitchigumi.

However, it was kind of rockin' today. 15-20 with gusts to 25.










The only reason I'm putting this particular sail in this esteemed thread is that I actually tore the damn head sail again! And it's a Big Freakin' Sail! I had bungeed it down as we headed out and forgot about the bungee as we started to hoist. 2' of pain at the leech as one of the hooks grabbed. Thank goodness I had crew to sew it up...










Heh-heh.


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - how about this bill and nichol? Tornado last summer that briefly touched down on the cliffs above the lake:




























And me singing Gordon Lightfoot at the top of my lungs in the middle of it all...in my BFS cap of course...


----------



## blt2ski

mainsail halyard is a bit loose, or main is stretched, and you need to install a cunningham........

Nice day for a sail. When I went across Lk Washington on the floating bridges today, flat as a perverbial pancake, and Puget sound was pretty flat and little, some but very little wind when I walked Mr Winston and cleaned up the boat getting ready for the race sunday.

marty


----------



## smackdaddy

blt2ski said:


> mainsail halyard is a bit loose, or main is stretched, and you need to install a cunningham........
> 
> Nice day for a sail. When I went across Lk Washington on the floating bridges today, flat as a perverbial pancake, and Puget sound was pretty flat and little, some but very little wind when I walked Mr Winston and cleaned up the boat getting ready for the race sunday.
> 
> marty


I need a new main. Halyard is cranked - and I even have a cunningham (you can see the cringle about 6" above the boom), and IT'S cranked! She's just seriously bagged out and under a lot of pressure. I'll drop the dime on new sails at some point. I'm still saving for a coastal boat.

The good news is that the repaired bulkhead is as strong as ever.

Hope your wind is rockin' on Sunday. Bring home a pickle dish will ya?


----------



## blt2ski

Just a club race, so no pickle dishes to hand out. The next two weekends have pickle dish equals. This weekend, will be to see if I can beat dodenja in his 36' version of my boat, ie a CS, not a jeanneau, but same designer ie Castro. He does have about a minute on me.........maybe I can do something to the boat in the mean time......eheheheeheh....

But he knows where I am E52, and I know where he is E51........hmmmmmmm awful close by don't ya think?!?!?!???,


----------



## GeorgeB

Smack, since when does going out in light breezes on a warm, sunny afternoon constitute as BFS? You’re setting the bar pretty low these days… What’s next? A BFS the next time you go over to the pump-out dock? To put it in context, Mrs B and I are sailing to San Francisco on Friday – only difference is our forecast is for rain in the morning turning to thunderstorms in the afternoon, winds from the south @ 20-30 kts and the afternoon high will be 60 degrees. And this doesn’t even elevate to a west coast BFS!


----------



## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> Smack, since when does going out in light breezes on a warm, sunny afternoon constitute as BFS? You're setting the bar pretty low these days&#8230; What's next? A BFS the next time you go over to the pump-out dock? To put it in context, Mrs B and I are sailing to San Francisco on Friday - only difference is our forecast is for rain in the morning turning to thunderstorms in the afternoon, winds from the south @ 20-30 kts and the afternoon high will be 60 degrees. And this doesn't even elevate to a west coast BFS!


Hey you bastard! I DID go to the pump-out dock yesterday too. I just don't have the pics!

Actually, thank you (potentially) for saving the thread from a rapid decline in expectations. So let's see some pics from your little sub-BFS afternoon sail today...then we'll talk.


----------



## smackdaddy

Finally!!!! The season's first BFS...



GeorgeB said:


> Smack, has the BFS thread faded from the scene? Is this thread taking over? We are back from our very soggy trip to San Francisco's South Beach last weekend. Two major storms rolled through in the span of three days. On Friday, we had to wait for a lull (15kts) to back out from our slip. Fortunately, we didn't have a jib already bent on so we were able to run up our Dacron blade in the rain and we tucked in two reefs at the dock. We had sustained winds in the mid twenties with gusts to the mid thirties when crossing the South Bay and with the winds from the south and the 30+ NM fetch, needless to say, we had our share of nasty slop. The moon's perigee this weekend contibuted for some nasty current action at the entrance to South Beach and plenty of surge action while we were docking. Saturday's storm was even more intense with winds gusting into the upper forties and heavy rain (I have new found respect for those who sit out hurricanes.) If you read today's 'lectronic latitiude, you will see that there were multiple sinkings on the Bay. A few headsails and a lot of canvas work was shreaded in South Beach. Sunday was the best day of the weekend insomuch that it was a series of squalls that marched through and although we saw some build into anvils, no thunderstorms. We got real lucky that for the most part, squals went by us on either side allowing for our jib and main to dry out from Friday's drenching. We were able to get everything down before Alameda got hit by a squall so we didn't have to dry out sails in our garage. All-in-all a pretty nice trip - the folks at SBYC couldn't have been nicer and we got to hear a lot about the preparations for the next America's Cup. So, when I go to the pump-out dock next weekend, do I write about that here or in the BFS thread?


The rest of us just suck apparently.


----------



## twinsdad

Just wait. The Northeast sailing season is coming shortly!!!!!


----------



## smackdaddy

Another Westie rates:



blt2ski said:


> Well smack,
> 
> My sail yesterday was probably a BFS. Looked up wind speeds at the marina, they were in the 30-35 range from 11am to 3pm, 3-5 was 25-30. Being as the race started about 12:05, finished about 3:20..... I guess we were out when race specs say no racing with sustained winds over 22mh! eeps, I guess that is why the two most recent FC;s of club were out, no one else but the C&C that tried to sail with a full main, and a rollerreefed genoa. He had NO reefs in that thing! Could not believe it.
> 
> Oh well, not to go look at some tide charts to see if I can find a current at the buoy........We did 1st in division and 2nd overall, then again, the 2n OA was dead last too!LOLOL
> 
> marty


Twins - you Easties better hurry up and bring it!


----------



## smackdaddy

I ran across this over at SA. It's just too cool to ignore...

BFS - Russian Winter Style...


----------



## CharlieCobra

Smack, ya wanna BFS, come with me to deliver Seasmoke to Sydney this coming Fall, if it goes through...


----------



## smackdaddy

CharlieCobra said:


> Smack, ya wanna BFS, come with me to deliver Seasmoke to Sydney this coming Fall, if it goes through...


Do you mean Sydney, BC? Or do you mean Sydney/Sydney? Since the BC version has an "i" - I'm thinking you mean AUS.

HOLY CRAP! Really??


----------



## CharlieCobra

Yep, really...


----------



## centaursailor

Thought I was out there volunteering for that Greece to South of France gig.  
Fell through as the skipper didn,t make a decision over 5 days so mi pulled out.
If your going make sure you have net access, otherwise who,s gona make the big calls. 
Safe long haul sailing.


----------



## Ajax_MD

smackdaddy said:


> Do you mean Sydney, BC? Or do you mean Sydney/Sydney? Since the BC version has an "i" - I'm thinking you mean AUS.
> 
> HOLY CRAP! Really??


Pack your seabag, Smack. It's time to walk the walk. Think of the street cred. you'l earn.


----------



## smackdaddy

BubbleheadMd said:


> Pack your seabag, Smack. It's time to walk the walk. Think of the street cred. you'l earn.


As if, Bubble.

Seriously, CC, how long would such a gnarly-ass passage take? And would I have to dress like this?


----------



## chall03

3 months if you were in 'delivery mode' Smack.....longer if you like into Nemo and coconuts and stuff.....

There is a bottle of Angostura waiting for you here at the dock in Sydney if you make it across the Pacific, Smack...... in boat.....other than the QE2...

Actually Dude make it a case and I will wear a BFS T shirt, change my Avatar for ever more to a picture of moi with my lips firmly planted on your buttock bowing before your immense BFSing presence   

CC, if you seriously do then best of luck..... TD has been murmuring about a Australia SN get together......What better occasion to celebrate???

If you did come our way then the mother of all dock parties will await you!


----------



## Ajax_MD

Chall,

When you say 3 months, is that because a K-40 isn't all that fast, or do these passages usually take that long?

I have to admit, I'm intrigued myself and I think I'd like to get one of these under my belt before too long. I just have to really save up all of my vacation time if it's going to take 3 months.


----------



## CharlieCobra

It took Simon 25 days to get to the Marquesas.from Frisco. Then an additional 90 days to AUS but I don't think he was in delivery mode. I'm thinking 60-90 days with a few stopovers for provisioning and rest.

The trip is 8700+ nautical miles....


----------



## Ajax_MD

8700?? That would be a hell of a first delivery.


----------



## smackdaddy

CC - as much as my pride hurts saying this....there's no way I could do a delivery like that. Being away from my business (among other things) that long is a no-go. But what a dream trip dude. Wow.

However, if you do break the trip up in legs down the coast, I'd be very honored to crew for you on one of them. No freakin' doubt. So stay in touch. My BFS monogramed sea bag and smoking jacket should be in in a couple of weeks...so I'll be ready. Oh, and I'll bring the stogies.


----------



## chall03

BubbleheadMd said:


> Chall,
> 
> When you say 3 months, is that because a K-40 isn't all that fast, or do these passages usually take that long?
> 
> I have to admit, I'm intrigued myself and I think I'd like to get one of these under my belt before too long. I just have to really save up all of my vacation time if it's going to take 3 months.


It is because they normally take that long.

I have to add here that I have never sailed across the Pacific personally but do know people who have, and I certainly have discussed it with them to a fair degree.(Our Aussie Dollar is now kicking US ass, the thought of buying a boat in the states and sailing it home had crossed my mind).

Smack, there is a Galapagos Tortoise with your name on it dude. Don't make me cancel the rum......time to man up BFS boy.


----------



## smackdaddy

chall03 said:


> It is because they normally take that long.
> 
> I have to add here that I have never sailed across the Pacific personally but do know people who have, and I certainly have discussed it with them to a fair degree.(Our Aussie Dollar is now kicking US ass, the thought of buying a boat in the states and sailing it home had crossed my mind).
> 
> Smack, there is a Galapagos Tortoise with your name on it dude. Don't make me cancel the rum......time to man up BFS boy.


You first. Heh-heh.


----------



## CharlieCobra

chall03 said:


> It is because they normally take that long.
> 
> I have to add here that I have never sailed across the Pacific personally but do know people who have, and I certainly have discussed it with them to a fair degree.(Our Aussie Dollar is now kicking US ass, the thought of buying a boat in the states and sailing it home had crossed my mind).
> 
> Smack, there is a Galapagos Tortoise with your name on it dude. Don't make me cancel the rum......time to man up BFS boy.


Well, let's see. I have an Islands Clipper 44' built in 1946, A 54' William Garden ketch and a K43 available for restoration to your specs...


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## Ajax_MD

*BFS or just a good training exercise?*

You be the judge.

The forecast yesterday was for 30% chance of scattered T-storms. Around here, that usually means that nothing's going to happen. I watched the weather radar feed all morning an checked multiple websites. I finally decided it was ok to go out.

I bent on my 100% jib and rolled out. I enjoyed a broad reach out of the river, pushing my little boat up to 6 knots. After a while, I looked behind me and saw a wall of absolute black building up behind me. I flipped over to the WX channel on the VHF and heard _"seek immediate shelter until the storm line passes..."_

I popped a U-turn and sailed into a cove, dropped the anchor and set it all without the engine. The rain came on like someone had flipped a switch. Hastily, I tied the sails down as lightning and hail came down. I retreated to the cabin and flipped on my super-wham-o-dyne, new anchor light and set the anchor alarm.

I listened to the 35kt breeze whistle through the rigging, and sat at the dinnette watching the lightning and the hail bounce off of the cabin top. The only thing missing was a snack, some rum and a deck of cards.

45 minutes later, the storm line had passed, and the sun came out. I weighed anchor, raised the sails, fell off to port and sailed away. I enjoyed some sailing out in the mouths of two conjoined rivers for a while, and noticed another storm line building, and heard the weather alert tone on the radio again.

I surrendered to the inevitable, sailed back home as far as I dared, then doused and stowed my sails and motored quickly back to my dock just as the next batch of hail, rain and lightning struck.

The wierd thing is, there were several other sailboats out there and a kayaker so I'm not the only one who misjudged the forecast.


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## twinsdad

Sounds like someone who made the right call twice!!


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## smackdaddy

BubbleheadMd said:


> You be the judge.
> 
> The forecast yesterday was for 30% chance of scattered T-storms. Around here, that usually means that nothing's going to happen. I watched the weather radar feed all morning an checked multiple websites. I finally decided it was ok to go out.
> 
> I bent on my 100% jib and rolled out. I enjoyed a broad reach out of the river, pushing my little boat up to 6 knots. After a while, I looked behind me and saw a wall of absolute black building up behind me. I flipped over to the WX channel on the VHF and heard _"seek immediate shelter until the storm line passes..."_
> 
> I popped a U-turn and sailed into a cove, dropped the anchor and set it all without the engine. The rain came on like someone had flipped a switch. Hastily, I tied the sails down as lightning and hail came down. I retreated to the cabin and flipped on my super-wham-o-dyne, new anchor light and set the anchor alarm.
> 
> I listened to the 35kt breeze whistle through the rigging, and sat at the dinnette watching the lightning and the hail bounce off of the cabin top. *The only thing missing was a snack, some rum and a deck of cards.*
> 
> 45 minutes later, the storm line had passed, and the sun came out. I weighed anchor, raised the sails, fell off to port and sailed away. I enjoyed some sailing out in the mouths of two conjoined rivers for a while, and noticed another storm line building, and heard the weather alert tone on the radio again.
> 
> I surrendered to the inevitable, sailed back home as far as I dared, then doused and stowed my sails and motored quickly back to my dock just as the next batch of hail, rain and lightning struck.
> 
> The wierd thing is, there were several other sailboats out there and a kayaker so I'm not the only one who misjudged the forecast.


BFS - no doubt. Great job Bubble! I've bolded my favorite line above which confirms the BFSness of the outing...

The Easties are on the board.


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## captbillc

i just finished reading "Lake Superior Shipwrecks" when i got to the part about the sinking of the Edmond Fitzgerald (729 ft) it described the wind & sea state. the Arthur M.Anderson (767 ft) was following the Fritz and could see it on the radar. captain cooper of the anderson observed winds at 69 mph gusting to 100mph.the seas were routinely boarding his ship with as much as 15 ft of water on deck. it was hit by the "three sisters" waves 1/3 bigger than the rest. at 6:30 pm two 30 to 35 ft seas hit. the 1st buried the after cabins & stove in a lifeboat.(they are carried on top) the second put green water over the bridge deck, 35 ft above the waterline. he said these waves were traveling at twice the speed of the ship and would have hit the Fritz at the time she went down. her image disappeared on the radar when a heavy snow squall hit. when it cleared, the Fritz was gone. she lies on the bottom in 530 ft of water with her 29 man crew , broken in half with the rear half upside down.


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## smackdaddy

Bill - kind of reminds you how small you really are out there...


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## smackdaddy

Check out this BFS from Slayer! If this doesn't get you stoked to sail big, you're not breathing...

Click the blue arrow by his name to jump into the thread.


Slayer said:


> Just got back from my first extended off shore passage from Marathon Keys FL to Southport SC. (I also did a one night passage from St. Maarten to Tortola, which I guess is considered offshore) I was on the sailing vessel Alobar, a Lord Nelson 41 foot cutter.
> 
> The boat was captained by Steve LaLonde (Marblehead), who is an awesome captain and great guy. The other crew was Mark Salisbury, a top notch crew and great cook to boot.
> 
> The Captian and I did the first overnight from Marathon to South Beach, where we were to pick up Mark. We hit high seas and thunderstorms the first night and got little sleep. Was able to curl up on the deck for a coupled of 15-20 minute naps through the night.
> 
> Then the three of us left So Beach and went about 80 miles out into the Gulf Stream, where even this twenty ton boat was making 10+ knots. After two overnights we pulled into Charleston, where we were suppose to meet up with another vessel.
> 
> The other vessel overshot the stream and hit unfavorable winds that delayed their arrival. We never met up with them.
> 
> We left Charleston for Oriental NC, but what little wind we had was right on our nose. With motor on we were averaging 4.5-5 knots. Our goal was to make it past the frying pan shoals before stong gusty winds were to set in, but our progress made it unlikely. Captain decided to pull into Southport, at Cape Fear.
> 
> The fog pulling into Southport reduce visibility to maybe 100 feet, so we carefully navigated our way in from marker to marker, amongst several large commercial vessels coming in and out. At one point a large tour boat emerged from the fog coming directly towards us. He was heading out on the inbound traffic lane. We had even radioed him that we were coming in hugging the red markers, but he was still right on us. When he saw us he slowed and we were able to turn out of his way.
> 
> I got off in Southport, and they planned to make the rest of the passage up the intercoastal. I had committed to sailing as far as Charleston where the other boat was suppost to have replacement crew for us, but we never hooked up with them, so I agreed to continue. Since they were going to make a relaxed passage up the intercoastal, they were fine doing it with just two. I rented a car and drove back to Charleston to catch a plane home.
> 
> The trip was exciting and a great learning experience. We saw lots of dolphins, rays, flying fish and a whale. As I sit here being off the boat for over 24 hours I can still feel the rocking of the ocean.
> 
> A great sail but always good to be home.


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## smackdaddy

HOLY CRAP! Check out the story brokesailor came across and posted in the Seamanship forum...



brokesailor said:


> Here's a good article to read over a hot cup of coffee. I have sailed on this boat from Saint Martin to NY thru OPO in not so extreme conditions. I think this happened around 2008.
> 
> Ocean Navigator | The magazine for long-distance offshore sailing and power voyaging


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## Don L

It seems to me they shouldn't have left when they did. They bsiclly said hey no problem only 50 knot wind lets head out into the storm! At the end he says his friend had a good sail because he waited to leave\.


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## smackdaddy

That's one way to look at it. I definitely would be going nowhere in 50 knots. But, obviously, these guys' threshold was way above mine. The interesting thing is that these conditions (which they seemed to handle just fine) had abated by the second day and they felt pretty comfortable...before being told that a hurricane was headed their way.

All in all, you have to admire their seamanship and their boat.


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## Slayer

Wow,,,great read. And regardless of whether or not they were foolhardy to head out when they did, they did an amazing job handling the situation.


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## jaschrumpf

I felt bad that their Tuscan chef was unable to cook, and they had to settle for "basic foods."

Oh, the humanity! :laugher


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## smackdaddy

jaschrumpf said:


> I felt bad that their Tuscan chef was unable to cook, and they had to settle for "basic foods."
> 
> Oh, the humanity! :laugher


No kidding. That just goes to show how solid these guys were. Freakin' epic.


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## smackdaddy

Here's a good BFS story from an Eastie from the "I got caught in a squall today" thread...



rajhnsn said:


> Coming down the Chesapeake last year from the C & D canal found us in steady 30's out of the west for about 5 hours. Gusts were in the 40's and we had a max reading in the 50's. Luckily it was a beam reach so we could go with a single reefed main and 25% of the 135% jib. The problem was that if we sailed too low we were beam to the waves, and if we sailed too high we healed too much and the sails took a beating. We were able to find a happy medium, only taking an occasional wave over the side. We hand steered most of the time because we could not rely on the auto pilot. The boat handled it with some shuttering from time to time. I recommended after the first hour that we duck in and wait it out but the crew wanted to keep going, even after getting a few of those waves down the back. After a period of time the initial fears of the "what ifs" went away because the boat and crew were able to handle the situation. We made sure that there was a lot of communication before any changes were made. I don't know how I would have done this without crew. I'm not sure if my auto pilot would have handled it. For me single handing would only be in the best of conditions, even then I can't figure how to get this 35 Oday back into the slip without damaging my ego and perhaps other boats.


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## blt2ski

Had a BFS tonight, along with some red badges of honor....

nailed the start of a race, about a minute later, ran aground.....

got free with in a minute or so, retook my lead with in 3 minutes or so.....

Realize the rivets holding the vang link to the boom are busted.....no vang in 15-25 knot of wind.....hmmmmm......probably happened during the grounding.......

redid 110 sheets to a different set of leads, gained half a knot of boat speed! 

First in fleet around the mark, decide to fly the chute......

Have some issues setting it, get knocked down, water (GREEN mind you) coming in cockpit, winches on the top of cabin top are buried, had no idea where the leeward life lines are, water 2" from going into cabin area......boat rights itself....

look around, everyone still on board, get spin in control, head off down wind at 8 something knots, hit 9.15 surfing the waves. not bad for a boat with a 24.5' WL hull speed of about 6.6-6.8! Manage to gybe the spin, main sail etc, few issues getting things up and running, but NO knock downs! finish before dark, 15 mile course in 2 hrs...... first in division.... not sure how we did with handicap as of yet.......oh yeah, beat deodenda/david with his new to him, faster than my boat.......

well any way, time to finish my henri's rb, eat some IC, hit the sack...

oh yeah, one crew I keep telling, put a wrap or two around the winch when letting a halyard loose.....

dinglesnort lets spin halyard loose in 15-20 knots, no wraps on winch......yep......blister on all finners! as the line went running out on him!

Oh well, if it could wrong, it did, go right, it did. major BFS tonight!

Marty


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## smackdaddy

Very nice Bluto!!!! Coming back from a spin slap to win the division!?!?!? That's some sailing dude!

Did you smell bacon when dingle fried his hand?


----------



## blt2ski

We smelled lots o bacon! I kept telling him to wrap the winch when letting a halyard down! what did he not do, learned the hardway! 

The spin flop/knockdown was the halfway point of the race, we were in the lead, the grounding we went from first to 2nd, the back to first and never let up with out tooooo much issues, but we were stopeed for 30-60 secs or so before the wind blew us sideways along with bodies on the leeward side to get moving into deeper water. I found out From David, a boat on our dock also grounded in about the same spot, altho they sat there a bit longer. 

Marty


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## headcaseracer

I have noticed that the BFS in Lake Michigan is a lot different than in salt. It's harder to get a big sail in Freshwater. When we first came here from North Carolina, we went out into Lake Michigan from South Haven. Winds were 15 kts and waves were 6 inches. It was perfect until we got about two miles out and the sky turned black with flashes. We turned around (as we do have at least two brain cells and know sailing and lightning isn't the best combination). Needless to say, we didn't beat the weather. So I donned my hurricane suit. It took us about an hour to get out and half hour to get back. 40 kt winds had us heeled over so the sails were brushing the water. People were jumping out of their cars to take pictures and running for cover after they took the pic. We were on the north side of the inlet with the wind gauge almost touching the other pier. We were having a great time even though the people taking pictures looked pretty shocked.


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## smackdaddy

Welcome to SN headcase. And welcome to the BFS thread.

Now if you tell me you sailed her into the slip in those conditions with the paparazzi pluggin' away...I'll build a shrine in your honor.

Nice work on bringing her home, dude.


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## headcaseracer

Unfortunately the channel in SH doesn't allow me to sail all the way in. It blocks the wind and there's an inconvenient drawbridge. The tender did open for us that day though when he saw us screaming back in, even though it wasn't time.


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## NICHOLSON58

The problem with places like Grand Haven is that the harbor entry is protected by two long parallel sea walls. If the wind happen to be big for a long enough time and directly in line with the channel you will not get in or out. I have photos of 8 to 12 footers doing this at Grand Haven. The water spills over the top of the break water walls and forms a continuously breaking wave that may run up channel for over a hundred yards. Coast Guard won't even attempt it. You will be stuck in the lake seeking an alternate harbor if this happens.


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## headcaseracer

Nicholson- you're right. It does that in South Haven too. The interesting thing is that the lake was super small (6" waves, yes inches) before this flash storm hit. After it hit, it got big. We had a blast. We'd love for it to be like that. High winds and low seas...but we know that doesn't happen very often. We've seen boats try to go out when the channel is big and watch the whole boat shake as it hits the bottom in the trough of the wave.


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## zeehag

we found 60 kts wind from nw just off cabo san lucas-- was our last big wind on our trip to mazatlan-- now is a pacific system offshore keeping the winds down and still from nw-- so northbound sailors arent happy with sailing situations at present.
this "brick" of a ketch sails quite nicely -- 8 kts -- under jib n jigger,both reefed, during those nice breezy spells....was most enjoyable!.


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## smackdaddy

60 knots????? Holy crap zee!!!

What were the seas like? And how did it blow like that.

I've sailed in 40 (very nervously) and seen 50 once in a squall that spawned a small tornado (was tucked behind a cliff, but was really scared).

I can't imagine being out in the open in 60. Well done getting through that one! I'll check out your blog for the write up.


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## zeehag

the seas were about 10 ft, with much chop--my freeboard is high so it only splashed over the coamings at the waist-- quartering seas--was a rolly yet fun ride--i didnt place too much in my website but i did take pix that made seas look flat..LOL
nothing like getting seas over the waist-- the cockpit was dry !!!!


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## smackdaddy

This is one BFS that needs to be enshrined. Click the blue arrow by Killarney's name to see the thread. Great stuff.



killarney_sailor said:


> We are now in Papeete, Tahiti after a nasty passage (850 miles, 8 days) from Mangareva in the Gambiers. Two days out from Mangareva we were hit by the edge of a Force 10 storm and knocked down. I say the edge of the storm since we had the strongest winds only for an hour or so while another boat on the same route had 10 hours of 45 to 55 knots.
> 
> I was sitting son the side deck beside the mast finishing adding some lashings to our dinghy when we must have broached (we were sailing downwind with a postage stamp jib out) and were hit by a lot of warm, green stuff. I was in water above my waste but held on by two tethers and two hands around shroud. When I got back to the cockpit it was full of water and my wife was bailing with a pot that previously had held soil and lettuce. Inside the boat a fair bit of water had gone through the louvers of the doors (along with some of the dirt) so it was pretty messy. Damage was a broken solar panel which was mounted on the stanchions and a wrecked digital camera. The camera was in the chart table but the lid on the table flipped up and deposited the camera on the floor with the incoming water and dirt.
> 
> Also we needed to get some sewing done on the bimini and ... both the electric and windvane steerers suffered gear damage or at least, were driven so that gears no longer meshed. The result was that we had to handsteer for 6 days (2 on/2 off). The Monitor fix was pretty easy once I got instructions from them - and at a dock with a stable work platform. The electric pilot is quite old and already had some alignment issues - will work on this today. What made the hand steering harder was that most of the rest of the way NW we had light winds and were running or broad reaching. Should have put up the asymmetric but were just too tired to deal with it.
> 
> Hard to estimate the amount of the knockdown, perhaps 75 degrees or so - I would call it aa small knockdown rather than a big pooping.
> 
> I certainly don't feel that we were in any great danger at any time. The boat is very, very strong. Lessons we learned:
> 
> Things like this can happen even you don't expect it. The weather forecasts topped out at 25 to 30 knots. We have noticed that forecasts here are often not accurate at all. This applies to GRIBs, weather faxes, you name it.
> Make sure you have harnesses on when conditions are snotty, in particular outside the cockpit; alhtough my wife had hers on as well
> Solar panels on the rail are vulnerable but they do work well here. Fortunately the only cheap thing we have found in French Polynesia are solar panels so it will not be too expensive.
> Hand steering for 6 days really sucks.
> 
> A few general comments. I never imagined the impact that Roaring 40s weather can have this far north. Our problems were caused by an occluded front stretching north from a depression in the 40s that was followed by a huge high (1035 mb) and we were at 21 degrees south. Tahiti is lovely but incredibly expensive. A can of beer in the supermarket is about $4 and a very modest restaurant meal will be $20+ not including a beverage.
> 
> We will be in French Polynesia (lots of beer from Panama still) until early July) before heading west. We have decided to head to Australia rather than New Zealand for cyclone season. The Admiral has decided that she does not want to go that far south and get hit again and apparently you will get hit going from Tonga to NZ, the only question is how often and how hard. We will go from Vanuatu to Bundaberg/Brisbane and stay north.


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## john1066

I don't think I posted this before. It probably doesn't qualify in any section of the BFS competition - it's old, it's in South Africa, I'm British, too complicated. Anyway, one of my most memorable BFS's:

Salty John : The Blog: Force 12


----------



## smackdaddy

john1066 said:


> I don't think I posted this before. It probably doesn't qualify in any section of the BFS competition - it's old, it's in South Africa, I'm British, too complicated. Anyway, one of my most memorable BFS's:
> 
> Salty John : The Blog: Force 12


Are you kidding me???? Who cares how old that story is, John?!?!?!? Wow!!!

F12 near the Cape of Good Hope. I'm sorry, it just doesn't get bigger, or freakin'er, than that.

You guys click his link...here's a teaser:



> The Cape Times reported the storm under the headline 'Battered Cape' and mentioned that three yachts had been involved in rescue dramas in winds measuring up to 200km/hour (100 knots): Amongst them "the yacht Nexus, which called for assistance after the engine failed in turbulent waters on Sunday, limped into Saldahna Bay early yesterday". That was us. Fame at last.


Very well written. I now have a new blog to pick through.

BTW - what make was the boat?


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## john1066

It was a South African designed and built 42' boat very similar in appearance to a Swan 42 of the 1980's. Flush teak decks, sloop. Her underbody was a long fin and skeg, quite a bit fuller than the Ron Holland Swan42 I referred to.

Coincidentally, another BFS I was involved in was on a Swan 42, off the US eastern seaboard. In both cases the boats behaved superbly, taking good care of their occupants.


----------



## smackdaddy

john1066 said:


> It was a South African designed and built 42' boat very similar in appearance to a Swan 42 of the 1980's. Flush teak decks, sloop. Her underbody was a long fin and skeg, quite a bit fuller than the Ron Holland Swan42 I referred to.
> 
> Coincidentally, another BFS I was involved in was on a Swan 42, off the US eastern seaboard. In both cases the boats behaved superbly, taking good care of their occupants.


You know, in all these great BFS stories of getting through hairy conditions, it really does come down to the fact that today's boats are pretty incredible pieces of work. So often, they handle whatever is thrown at them long after the sailors have reached their limit.

It seems that one of the best things you can possibly do as a sailor is _prepare and truly take care of your boat_. Yes, you need to know what to do in the snot, but there seems to always come a point where that well of personal knowledge and preparation runs dry and you have to just leave it to her.

Here's to great yacht design!

Is that Swan story on your blog John?


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## john1066

Well said, Smack, you got it in one. Take care of your boat because at some point you're going to need her to take care of you. A good boat can stand up to the most incredible abuse - and keep going long after the crew are exhausted in their bunks, resigned to their fate.

But, one thing a good boat needs to keep you safe is sea room. The land kills boats when the sea can't. As long as you have plenty of sea room you can, ultimately, take down all sail, secure the hatches, lash the helm and get in your bunk.

No, I didn't write up the Swan trip. The Blog is a fairly recent venture and most of my BFSailing took place some time ago - I sold my cruising boat in 2004. These days I potter around on my Compac 19 and occasionally blag a ride on a big boat.


----------



## smackdaddy

john1066 said:


> Well said, Smack, you got it in one. Take care of your boat because at some point you're going to need her to take care of you. A good boat can stand up to the most incredible abuse - and keep going long after the crew are exhausted in their bunks, resigned to their fate.
> 
> But, one thing a good boat needs to keep you safe is sea room. The land kills boats when the sea can't. As long as you have plenty of sea room you can, ultimately, take down all sail, secure the hatches, lash the helm and get in your bunk.
> 
> No, I didn't write up the Swan trip. The Blog is a fairly recent venture and most of my BFSailing took place some time ago - I sold my cruising boat in 2004. These days I potter around on my Compac 19 and occasionally blag a ride on a big boat.


Well you're doing a great job on your blog. Good stuff.

I'll patiently await the Swan story....

....okay, done yet?

Sorry, we Americans have so little patience. Heh-heh.


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## smackdaddy

Holy crap, do I have some stories! And, now that I'm a bonafide ocean racer they are obviously gonna rock. 250+ miles under my belt and another 250 coming up...with a spinnaker involved. I'll do a trip report with visuals when we get back. For now I'm swilling brews with my super model wife on the beach of South Padre. 

So long suckas!


----------



## St Anna

smackdaddy said:


> Holy crap, do I have some stories! And, now that I'm a bonafide ocean racer they are obviously gonna rock. 250+ miles under my belt and another 250 coming up...with a spinnaker involved. I'll do a trip report with visuals when we get back. For now I'm swilling brews with my super model wife on the beach of South Padre.
> 
> So long suckas!


As with all 'racers', the more 'brews', the greater the stories! 
As for the spinaker, they make great bean bag substitutes or great 'doona's if cold!
cheers big ears


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## HDChopper

LoL , I double dogg dare ya to slapdown a 
"bonafide ocean racer" story 

Try to keep the S_it eaten grin under control


----------



## blt2ski

PICS with the supposed super model wife, or it DID NOT happen!!!!!!!!yup, that is my story!


----------



## DwayneSpeer

*20 gusting to 35*

Last Saturday, race day. Wind at 20 gusting to 35. 5 boats started and 3 finished. One quit due to equipment failure and one quit because of the conditions. We won! Only two crew on my 37 foot boat. Main reefed and genoa rolled out to 80% on the beats. All out on the down wind. Healed over to 30 degrees. Five foot waves and the bow dipping well into most of them. The old fart at the helm was OLDER than me and much weaker so I got to handle the sails. Hard day of work but FUN!


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## blt2ski

Dwayne, 

Was this on the lake/Reservoir on the Columbia? or where you elsewhere?

Marty


----------



## catamount

Leg One of the Bermuda 1-2


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## smackdaddy

Wow cat! Great stuff!

And I love the tiller pilot rig. Let's all raise our glasses to vice grips!

Okay - I'll read the rest of yours later - I need to get back to my own write up. It's going to take days. But first, some Dewar's 12 and filet mignons on the grill by the pool.


----------



## smackdaddy

*2011 Race to the Border*

This was, without a doubt, the BIGGEST FREAKIN' SAIL I'VE EVER HAD! As a matter of fact it was one of the biggest adventures of my life. And I've had some big ones.

There was no major storm, no need to deploy the JSD, no knockdowns, actually nothing crazy at all. In fact, the conditions were pretty mellow - even to the point of a dead calm. BUT, none of that mattered. I now have 500+ miles of blue water sailing under my belt...and for me, that is freakin' BIG! Way beyond my personal "limits" to that point.

I made tons of mistakes...learned a hell of a lot...and am ready for more.

Here's how it all went down...

*STATS:*
Route: Galveston Bay to South Padre Island
Rhumb Line Distance: 240 nautical miles
Boat: Pacific Seacraft 37 Crealock - Cutter
Class: PHRF Non-Spin B
Crew: 6

*PREFACE:*
Throughout my illustrious posting career on sailing forums, lots of crusty chumps have mocked the fact that I sail in a lake - and, therefore, "have no idea what it's REALLY like to sail in the deadly ocean". Sure, they had a point, but, as I assured them, they were still chumps. It always seemed that this "insult" was as much about squelching enthusiasm for sailing in big conditions as it was putting me in what they thought was my place (like _that_ ever works). So, this "puddle sailor" decided to see what the oceanic hubbub was all about...and simultaneously prove to said chumps that lake sailors could indeed survive in blue water.

On another front, we often see questions from newbs asking how to go about finding crewing opportunities - with the answer always being..."just go look, bonehead". So, about a year ago I started mouthing off in the forums about wanting to do a true ocean race. Funny thing is...someone took me up on it.

That person was none other than RTB - a good pal from SN and his other forum haunt, cruising.stuffiminto.com. He put me in touch with his friend James, with whom he had done a race in the fall. James was now gearing up to do this one and needed some back-up crew. That's when my GMail begging began. Finally, James relented...

*THE CHECK SAIL:*
He agreed to meet me and take me out on a check sail to see whether or not I sucked. I drove to Kemah and met him and his son, Matthew, on his immaculate Pacific Seacraft 37 Crealock cutter. Having heard a lot of great things about the PSCs, I was excited about sailing her.

We prepped the boat and motored out into the bay. The temps were in the mid 90's and the wind was in the 15-20 range. So the bay was pretty chopped up. James drew us up into irons and directed me to raise the main as Matt headed to the bow for the jib hoist. I happily cranked away on the main halyard but the slugs bound about 1/2 way up. So I started grinding...and grinding...and grinding...and...good lord...grind....ing...and...gri.....good...lor...pant...gri...nausea...gr.. Finally, it was up and tight. Then, of course, it was time for the 110. Back to the grinding...and...I almost went into convulsions. I drained a liter bottle of water in nothing flat and slowly recovered, trying to hide my wimpiness from the skipper.

We were finally canvassed up - and that freakin' PSC was as solid as a rock, hitting 7+ knots pretty easily! I was definitely impressed. Wasn't this supposed to be one of those 4KSBs?

To my sheer delight, James wasn't happy with this scant amount canvass in the 20 knot gusts - so we also hoisted the yankee. The rail was now in the water and we were still comfortably cruising along at 7+. Seriously awesome.

I was in charge of trimming the jib, so James went forward to check the tell tales...they were perfect. Sail trim is one thing you get pretty good at on a lake. So at least I had that going for me. He was happy, and I was in as the trimmer. Booyah! I finally had my chance.

We sailed for several hours, with many successful tacks and gybes, then dropped the sails and headed back in under motor. I began tying down the main at which point I promptly fired one of James' mainsail bungees straight into the water. He just shook his head, rolled his eyes, and sighed.

It would be the first of many, many mistakes.

Over beers back at the slip I had the pleasure of meeting RTB and his wife. Very, very cool people. We laughed about all the forum crap that's gone on over the years. Upon finding out about my sordid forum career, James, a member of one of said forums, squinted a bit and asked exactly what it takes to get oneself banned. I stammered...took a giant drag of beer...then explained that it was all about "right versus wrong" and "truth standing up to power" and "not playing behind-the-scenes games" and "sailing with stones and not being some sensitive Nancy who pouts a lot" and.... He just shook his head, rolled his eyes, and sighed.

"Just calm down on the forums until after the race. I don't want anyone to know that 'Smackdaddy' is on my boat."

Deal.

_LESSONS LEARNED:
1. One of the main things I learned on this outing was that I'd need a better GPS (I was using my iPhone which was way too hard to mess with under sail). And, more importantly I'd need a hands-free solution for lots of water while racing. I bought the Garmin Foretrex 401 wrist-mounted GPS, and a 2-litre camel-back pack that fit very nicely under my pfd. Both were invaluable on the trip.
2. I was also concerned about getting seasick. I've been on a lot of boats in a lot of conditions during my time in the South Pacific and have only ever been sick once. But I didn't want to chance it on the race. So the day before the sail, on the advice of my dad (a pharmacist) I took an over-the-counter med called "Bonine" to test for side affects. No problems or sleepiness, so I took it again the morning of the sail and, again, had no problems with side affects or sickness. I never had any problems during the entire trip and would highly recommend it._

*THE CREW:*
The crew for the race was seriously impressive. First there was Susan, a freakin' NASA engineer (wow) who had several long distance ocean races under her belt including the Quingdao to Vancouver leg of the last Clipper (very wow). Then there was Bruce, a retired fireman/EMT and current delivery captain with over 16K miles under his belt. Then there was Scott who was an experienced main trimmer who had been racing with James and Susan on another racing yacht in Kemah. With James, Matthew and myself, that made a crew of 6.

We all met on June 4 at 0800, stowed our gear, and prepped the boat for the push off at 0900.

It was clear that James and Matthew had done a tremendous amount of work since the check sail. The boat was completely geared up with radar, SSB, AIS, Chartplotter, life raft, JSD, new standing rigging, new running rigging, you name it. It felt great to be sailing with a skipper that wanted his boat to be the best and safest it could be. There were no corners being cut here.

As a bit of background, James is about to do a circumnavigation on this fine PSC. He plans to leave before the end of the year and push around the ball - through the Panama Canal and around the Cape of Good Hope. He was using these races as a shakedown for the boat, its systems, and his learning curve. Seriously smart, able, and committed dude. He inspired a good deal of confidence.

0900 came and we threw off the lines and started backing out of the slip. Just as the boat was nearing another on the opposite side of the fairway, the wheel locked up tight. James put some quick muscle into it and saved the day - as the autopilot gear housing fell off and sprayed some parts across the cockpit sole. Gear failure 30' into the 500 mile trip. Oh boy.

The duct tape came out as we started motoring across Galveston Bay to the line...a trip of over 4 hours. It's a big bay.

*THE START:*
There were something like 18 boats in the race - all monos except for a single tri in the multi class. We were in the PHRF-NON-SPINNAKER-B class along with 5 other boats.

We arrived at the starting area and scouted the line and did a quick wind test. It was a very light SW 8-10 knots, right on our nose. This was going to be tricky...and slow.

We stowed the baby-stay, then hoisted the main and the 150 genoa (James had replaced the slugs, so I didn't convulse this time) and started milling around with the other boats. We practiced a couple of tacks to get everyone in the zone. I blew my first tack with a bad wrap on the winch. As I frantically worked to clean the sheet, James firmly let me know we'd need to do better than that. I focused. The next couple went better - but still not super smooth. I was quickly discovering just how much more line you have to pull on a 37' than on a 27'.

We watched the countdown closely as our class start neared. James got us in a good position for the line, but we were just a little early and had to relax the sails and tack away. This time Bruce, the other jib trimmer, wrapped the sheet on his side. We were not exactly a well-oiled machine. As the seconds ticked down, James pulled the nose through another tack to the start - and this one was flawless. We squeezed out a couple of competitors and crossed the starting line 3rd, close behind our competitors. But then things got hairy...

We all had to tack back and forth in a narrow gap between a jetty and the shipping lane. Being that Galveston is one of the busiest ports in the world - that meant A LOT of insanely huge ships. Remember, this was my first time on a sailboat around full-size tankers. I couldn't believe my eyes.

We were trying to line up the best tack to clear the jetty. And this line took us into the channel. There was another sailboat behind us about 100 yards, and a ginormous incoming orange tanker just entering the channel. So timing was critical. James pushed as far as he dared into the channel with the tanker bearing down on us and the other boat sneaking up to port. It was getting a little scary. He called for the tack...

The lazy sheet hung up in the turning block, and when Bruce released it, the spin was too fast on the winch and I got my second over-wrap at the most inopportune time. I'd blown it again. James, very understandably so, was not happy. We were in a bad spot.

I worked quickly to free the wrap and sheeted in the genny and we were moving again...just in time to clear the tanker, but not in time to avoid having to bear off to allow the boat behind us to push by on its starboard tack. I had cost us pretty dearly on that one. And I was feeling like a chump.

We finally cleared the jetty and set our course for South Padre Island 240 miles away. James had Susan relieve me and sent me forward. He came up a couple of minutes later and I apologized for blowing the tacks. Now, on the one hand, James can be a hard-ass. He expects things to go well and will let you know when they're not (which is what you want in a skipper). On the other hand, he's a pretty patient and laid-back guy who doesn't want to beat you when you're down. He just said, "We all need to get better. Learn from those mistakes and don't make them again."

I was now motivated. And I'd gained even more respect for this guy.

_LESSONS LEARNED:
1. I still wasn't quite sure what I was doing wrong on the winch. I had tried different combos of wraps from 3 wraps, to even a single...which helped avoid the over-wrap, but didn't provide enough friction. The single also created a delay in throwing on additional wraps prior to tailing and grinding. I wanted to get this figured out.

Susan was the one that helped with that. First, to my relief, James actually had an over-wrap during a tack, and being the gracious dude he is, said, "Well Steve, I guess that's not as easy as it seems." Then Susan had a wrap. So, I was wriggling off the hook a bit.

She noticed that the tailing arm on the starboard winch (the one I'd been on) was not oriented correctly, which pushed the tail outboard. She changed that. She also noticed that a pretty high upward angle was needed during a fast tail to avoid a wrap. And she was right. After this, we had no further problems with the tailing. I just wish I'd known this stuff prior to the start!

Just part of the learning curve on an unfamiliar boat I guess. At least that's what I keep telling myself. I mean, the only other alternative would be that I suck. And, well, that's just not possible._

*RACE - DAY 1: *
With a pretty lousy wind forecast to 20 miles out, we decided to head south to see if we could find more air off-shore. The wind was supposed to shift back to the south the following day, but remain very light closer in. If we could find 10-15 knots 40 or so miles out, we'd be "in tall clover" as James likes to say.

On the way, I finally got to see what I'd wanted to see for a very, very long time...dolphins swimming along-side the boat I was sailing. (Pics are not great with the iPhone - but it was very, very cool.):





































Definitely one of my favorite memories.

James set shifts of 3-crew/3-hours. My crew mates were James and Matt. And the the other crew was comprised of Bruce (watch captain), Susan and Scott. We ran the jacklines, tethered into the cockpit pad-eyes, and took the 2100-2400 as the others went below to rest. The seas were calm, 1'-2', and the sky was clear as the sun began to set. I had packed individual meals in ziplocks (all light stuff like fruit, cheese, bread, boiled eggs, etc.) and enjoyed my first meal under sail in the Gulf of Freakin' Mexico, baby. Booyah!

A competitor to port on the horizon...









Another ahead of us as we head off-shore:









Making slow progress:









Sailors' delight:









1200 came and we went below for some sleep as the other crew took over.

*RACE - DAY 2:*
We came back up at 0300 to a fairly good breeze (8-10 knots) and decent SOG (5-6 knots). Bruce, Susan and Scott had done a good job keeping us moving along. They went below for some rest as our group settled in. There was just a sliver of a moon showing - so it was pretty dark. The seas were still only in the 2' range, so things were mellow. The chartplotter showed our course and speed and the AIS and radar were clear:



















We discovered that the compass light was out. So we were just working the wind southward, steering by Scorpio, and checking our compass heading every few minutes with a red-lensed flashlight and backing it up with the heading readout on the chartplotter. This latter method was not that cool because of the slight delay as the numbers updated. I definitely prefer the compass and/or stars.

Even so, we were able to get the sails trimmed such that we could literally let go of the wheel for several minutes at a time and maintain a steady course. I was continually amazed at how well that PSC 37 sailed. It really is a great, great boat.

We were now about 20 miles out and had lost site of Galveston. However, there were quite a few lights ahead of us...which meant one thing...oil rigs.

Now I've had this thing about oil rigs. After reading about them on all the forums...specifically the unlit ones crouched out there waiting to sink your boat...I was pretty nervous about these things at night. The consensus has always been that you want to get away from these as quickly as possible. And I was definitely up for that. But, for now, we were heading right into them.

These rigs seem to come in several flavors as regards knowing where they are in the dark:

1. Main Platform: No missing these bad boys, day or night. They are wicked huge, brightly lit, and you can hear them humming a couple of miles away.
2. Remote Platform: Smaller towers with a helicopter pad on top. These feed gas and oil back to the main stations (from what I gather) and typically have a set of double flashing lights on top with a loud 2-second tone at 5-10-second intervals via a speaker somewhere. (We would end up hearing these tones for most of the night.)
3. Single Risers - Lit: These would typically have a white or amber light atop the riser. The light would typically blink, but not always. So you had to pay close attention to make sure it wasn't a tanker's steaming light.
4. Single Risers - Unlit: These are the ones you fear...especially on a dark night.

The #1 flavor in daylight:


















The #2 flavor in daylight:









So, we were weaving our way through a fairly crowded field at 4-6 knots with 7-9 knots of wind when the worst possible thing happened...the wind literally DIED...down to 2-3 knots. With the 1 knot current, we were doing way more drifting than I was comfortable with in the midst of all the hull-threatening obstacles surrounding us.

At one point toward the end of the shift, Matt was at the helm working to keep us moving when the light breeze shifted and backwinded the genny. As we worked to tack out of this heave-to, I noticed a blinking bouy only 20 yards off our port stern - and we were headed right toward it. We worked quickly to milk the crappy breeze for a tack and were only 15' away from the bouy when we finally got our momentum back. WAY too close for comfort.

Though we finally made it out of the maze of rigs and those maddening tones, the wind refused to cooperate, staying below 3 knots. We were still moving, but barely. And it was hard to keep the sails filled with the swell. This was not at all my idea of "racing". But, I guess that's all part of the game.

0600 came and we turned the helm over to the other watch and went back below for some sleep. It had be a pretty stressful few hours.

Dawn on Day 2:









Changing of the guard:









We came back up at 0900 and the wind built back up a bit, 7-9 knots, so we were moving again...albeit more slowly than any of us would have liked. I took the wheel as the other crew went below for their rest.

Here I am rockin' the helm IN THE FREAKIN' OCEAN YO! (not that much different than a lake actually):









And our SOG at 5 knots in 7-9 of wind (not horrible for a blue water cruiser, eh?):









Then, as the sun continued to rise, the wind continued to fall. 6 knots, then 5, then 3, then this:









DEAD FREAKIN' CALM!!!! I mean NO wind. The seas were glass. And we were about 50 miles out at this point! Our gamble had not paid off. We were screwed.

This went on for the rest of our watch and half into the next. By noon we had a decision to make. The weather forecast showed that we weren't going to have anything over 5 knots for the next 6-8 hours. Doing the math, we knew that we were going to miss the 1200 cut-off the following day for the race. Furthermore, Scott and Susan had a flight to catch the following afternoon.

So, it was either get DQ'd for starting the motor in order to get to South Padre in time for their flights. Or it was get DQ'd for staying under sail for the next several hours and missing the cut-off. We took a vote. And me being my stubborn self (who didn't have a flight to catch), I wanted to chance it. I was soundly out-voted.

So, we cranked up the motor, cranked up the Muddy Waters, and started making 5 knots toward South Padre. At least the underway breeze knocked the edge off the 97 degree heat.



















One thing that was strange was that we'd seen no ship traffic at all during our run. Passing by Corpus Christi we thought for sure we'd see something...but thus far...nothing. That is one big ocean out there...even in the Gulf.

I was just about to wake up from my off-watch nap when I heard the dreaded words from some unseen voice, "I just took a crap in the head and it won't flush." At first I thought it was just a horrible dream...then I heard the frantic pumping and a stream of expletives. Great. We had indeed been visited by the head troll. That Raritan was super stuck and super funky. Oh well, at least it was really hot and still so the cabin could fill to the brim with the simmering bouquet.

It was Susan who took charge and fished a bucket out of the lazarette. Did I tell you above how cool this chick is? We'll she's cool. Very cool. She had us all fouling that bucket regularly in no time. Brilliance. Pure brilliance. Of course, at one point when Matt was unsteadily walking his soiled bucket toward the cockpit in a building swell with a particularly relieved look on his face, we quickly evacuated the cockpit. You don't take chances with the bucket. Especially Matt's bucket.

We motor sailed for the next several hours into the early evening. At this point we were only 40 miles or so from South Padre. As the sun began to set, a mighty "hallelujah" burst from the cockpit as the wind began to build...8...then 10...then 12. We shut off the engine and were once again doing what the boat was meant to do. It was so nice to be rid of that incessant diesel rattle.

As night fell, we were back on our shifts making 6-7 knots toward the finish.

_LESSONS LEARNED:
1. Though oil rigs are indeed spooky, they're not nearly as bad as I'd imagined. You just have to stay on your toes. 
2. Sometimes, you're just screwed any way you go (e.g. - turning on the motor versus missing the cut-off). Fortunately James wanted everyone to have a good time more than anything. And we definitely did.
3. I learned that the helmsman should not be messing with the chartplotter, AIS, etc. while driving. Several times one of us would focus on changing screens or something and immediately head the wrong direction with sails luffing, etc. Drivers should drive. Period. Someone else should mess with the toyz._

*RACE - DAY 3:*
The wind and seas continued to build until we were seeing gusts to 20 knots and seas of 4'-5' on our beam. It was about 0300 and Susan was at the helm fighting the rolls and gusts. She felt that we were starting to get overpowered with the genny and full main - and that if the conditions continued to build, we'd start having some difficulty. So James told Matt and me to head up to the bow and change out the genny for the 110.

Drawing on her racing experience, Susan walked us through a quick-change technique for the headsails...removing a few of the lower hanks of the genny and connecting a few of the upper hanks for the 110. That way, as the genny comes down, the 110 is ready to start going up immediately. Sounded like a great plan.

So, I put on my handy-dandy Energizer headlamp, pocketed some pliers for the tack-shackle, clipped into the jacklines and made my way with Matt to the dark pointy end. The waves were not that big (I was later informed - see below), but were choppy and steep as we neared South Padre. So there was a lot of motion on that bow...and a nice amount of spray. I was seriously digging this! "Yahoos" were enthusiastically offered up.

We followed Susan's instructions for the quick-change and called for the genny to be doused. Matt called for the pliers and swapped the tacks of the sails as I moved the halyard to the 110. Then he started in on removing the rest of the genny hanks. It was here that we ran into trouble that I should have foreseen.

When Susan and I had initially bent on the genny, 2 or 3 hanks had been especially difficult to open wide enough to bend on. This was due to a couple of reasons. First, a couple were just plain sticky with corrosion. We had lubricated these when we ran across them prior to the initial hoist. But the other issue was that James had increased the size of his rigging a bit. So his forestay was thicker than it had been. We'd had to crank on these hanks with pliers to open them enough to bend on as they had never opened this far before. So now, though the oil had worked, these 2 or 3 still wouldn't open wide enough by hand to come off. Back to the cranking with pliers as the boat bucked and snorted. And goodbye quick-change. Still, it was nice having that bright red light from my headlamp to help us see what we were doing.

We finally got the genny unhanked and I started tying it off to the leeward rail as Matt finished hanking on the 110 and called for the hoist. The sail rose about 15' and stopped. A yell from the cockpit told us to check the halyard. I switched my headlamp to full spotlight mode and shined it up into the rigging. In the bouncy seas, the halyard had flipped behind the starboard spreader. I should have kept tension on it after I'd swapped it, but got too into the hank problems and took my eye off the ball. It really is amazing how many things you have to watch at the same time when things are a little sketchy. I asked for slack and flipped the halyard back around after a few tries and we finally hoisted the 110. The boat loved it and we were back off at 7+ knots toward the finish.

As the sun rose at 0630 the wind stayed fresh and in the perfect direction to take us across the finish line with only 1 more tack.

Getting close in 15 knots of wind:









Seas starting to calm back down to the 3'-4' range:


















I definitely missed the "yahoo" factor from the previous night. I had been so jazzed on adrenaline after the sail change that I drove the boat for another hour after my shift had ended. It was just too fun.










At 0730 we performed our final tack into the channel and crossed the finish line. It had taken us right at 63 hours for the whole trip...about 13 more than we had estimated. And that was WITH the motor! James had made a good call on that one.

I texted my wife that we had arrived and got the following replies:

Wife: "Woo hoo! You didn't sink!"
7-Year-Old-Son: "I Thoth you. Sunk."

I obviously do not yet have a stellar reputation in my family as an able off-shore sailor.

_LESSONS LEARNED:
1. The Energizer headlamp is pretty sweet. The red light is a little strong, but is very handy for the bow at night. The other settings, flood and spot, provide good strong light for checking the rig, looking ahead of the boat, etc. If you have trouble with hanks in the beginning, you'll keep having trouble with them...especially when you need them to be trouble-free. 
2. The SPOT tracker is a cool invention. Its use would have relieved a lot of the family's consternation. Although for the cost, you need to be doing a lot of off-shore stuff for it to make sense...at least for me. I'll keep looking for alternatives.
3. Even if the waves look really big to you because you sail on a lake...don't mention this. The other sailors just laugh and talk about the 30 footers they've seen off the coast of China, or in the Gulf Stream headed north in November. You do the math and realize that that's 24' higher than what you're seeing. Then you soil your foulies. Trust me._

*THE BEACH PARTY:*
After squaring away the boat, and before Scott and Susan headed out to catch their flights, I blessed the skipper and crew with dearly-coveted BFS hats - explaining what BFS was all about. I'm pretty sure there was not a dry eye in the cockpit as everyone realized the historical significance of the moment. (I was also pleased to note that none had been tossed in the dumpster afterward.) This sail, at least for me, had been what BFS is all about. The best sail ever.

I called my wife who'd driven down with our boys and asked her to come pick me up and take me to our hotel. I was freakin' spent and needed to hit the shower and a nice, comfy, air-conditioned bed for a long, long while. The beach party and bonfire started around 6, so I had some time.

The family drove up and it was then I realized how worried my wife had actually been. Those text messages above were not just joking. They'd been pretty concerned about us. We obviously had had no easy way to casually contact anyone while off-shore (though we had the SSB for urgent use). And we'd all estimated arrivals for the previous evening/night. Furthermore, there were not SPOT trackers nor had there been updates on the race website. So, the loved ones awaiting everyone's arrival had no idea what was going on out there. Needless to say, they were pretty happy to see me. Which is always nice.

I had a huge breakfast of eggs, bacon, etc. then hit the super-comfy bed at the hotel while they all went down to the beach. I slept for hours.

Later in the afternoon, I went down and had a couple of beers with my wife around the pool, the headed down to the beach with the kids. I was truly amazed at how beautiful South Padre was. I'd spent plenty of time on the beaches near Corpus Christi and Galveson - and they kind of sucked. Brown water, grayish sand. Just nothing special. And I'd always heard about South Padre - but assumed it was just like the other Texas beaches. Not the case at all. It was like a piece of the Caribbean in Texas. Beautiful white sand beaches, clear, blue water, and a great, laid-back environment:

The boys playing on the dunes:


















The bay from the Port Isabel side looking toward South Padre Island:









The beach from the ocean side:









Beautiful blue water:









And a strange warning on the bridge that I still haven't quite figure out...










That night, we were treated to a fantastic beach party and bonfire by the race organizers. It was really the perfect ending to this race:



















My supermodel wife playing the social butterfly...








(Told you she's hot.)

Everyone hitting the booze and food. Good times:









It was during this event that we found out that several of the boats had dropped out and motored back to Galveston when the wind died. In fact, only 2 boats of the 18 completed the race under sail. Everyone else in the fleet had motored like us. Knowing that, we all felt a bit better.

The rundown of the event:









The winners of the race got to light the bonfire that night:









It was a great night with tons of really fun people. I can't remember exactly how many autographs I had to give out. But I was, of course, happy to accommodate everyone.

*THE BRUNCH:*
The last event was a brunch at the Port Isabel light house. Good food and bloody marys made for a nice morning.

The much-needed shade:









And the lighthouse:









*THE WRAP-UP:*
I spent the rest of our time at South Padre hanging out with the wife and kids. We hit the two museums in Port Isabel (awesome), then hit the beach with our boogie boards. It was a pretty magical time.

We're definitely going back to SPI. And I'd recommend it as a great Texas destination to any cruiser. Awesome place.

*THE RETURN:*
Prior to departure, we had another potentially serious gear failure. James had noticed a good deal of oil in the bilge the day before. Never a good sign. He'd dropped diapers in the bilge to soak up the spill and looked around the engine but couldn't see where it was coming from. A pro mechanic had changed the oil just prior to the trip, so we were guessing that maybe the pan gasket was leaking. I headed to WalMart and picked up what we thought would be PLENTY of oil for the refill and extra for the trip back (6 quarts). The engine was spec'd at holding 10 quarts. When the oil was still not showing on the dipstick after adding 4 quarts - we knew we'd been extremely lucky. The low oil light had never illuminated during all the time we motored during those 2 days, and we had obviously been dangerously close to seizing that thing. We bought another 6 quarts. In the end, we added 7.5 quarts to the engine.

Now it was time to start it and see where the problem was. We hoped and prayed it wouldn't require another day or two of repairs. We fired her up and heard James yell from below for us to shut her down. The oil filter was leaking like a sieve. We drove over to Napa, picked up a couple of filters and replaced the damaged one (deformity at the gasket which broke the seal...don't know how the deformity happened...but...). A new filter and we were golden and ready to shove off. That's the kind of engine problem you want to have.

I won't bore you with all the details of the return trip. However, we were able to sail all the way back to Galveston, 240+ miles, ON A SINGLE TACK IN 37 HOURS!!!!! As a matter of fact, we hit 9 knots SOG during the final night!!!!

Check out our GPS track!!!:
RTB_2011_R - Google Maps

As you see with the track, the last of the batteries for my GPS died as we were nearing Galveston - but it did a great job of tracking us the rest of the way.

The winds were a steady 10-12 knots from the south the whole way. It couldn't have been more perfect.

Minus Scott and Susan, there were 4 of us on the trip back, taking 4 hour shifts of 2 crew. I was matched with Bruce this time and it was fun getting to know him and get some good advice on navigation, ice cream, and women. The guy has sailed some incredible boats and has been in a couple of serious BFSs (60 knots headed up the East Coast from the islands). He too was impressed with the PSC 37.

Here are several pics from the trip back:

A Waquiez 41(?) from the race, leaving with us. That boat smoked us. Within a day it was completely out of sight.









Still flying the 110 with 12+ knots of wind and 2'-4' seas. Freakin' perfect!









The infamous bucket:









Mellow seas:









Another perfect sunset at sea:









A life jacket we spotted in a floating line of seaweed. Fortunately for us, it was was empty. Hopefully it was just a stray. I didn't want to think about the other possibilities:










The only other thing that differed from the race route was that we finally crossed paths with a tanker underway. THOSE THINGS MOVE FAST!!!! I'd always heard this - but seeing it is a different thing. We were about 50 miles outside of Corpus at about 1000 when we saw it headed our way on the AIS. We adjusted our course and watched as it lumbered into view. We passed within 1.5 miles and it still looked freakin' huge, moving alot at 15 knots or so. I now understand why you want to stay the hell away from those giants.

We arrived at the mouth of Galveston Bay at about 0300 and awakened James for the drive in. There must have been 30 huge ships anchored just outside the channel. We definitely had to stay frosty with all those lights. Once we got into the bay proper, I crashed in preparation for my drive back to Austin.

*CONCLUSION:*
It was, without question, one of the biggest adventures of my life. No, it wasn't about some crazy F10 storm that we battled. It was just about sailing offshore for 500+ glorious miles. If you've never done it...get out there and go for it.

I'm completely and thoroughly hooked on this whole BFS thing now. I just had no idea until this race how right I'd been all along.

Bite me AFOCers! I'm an ocean racer. Heh-heh.

_OTHER LESSONS LEARNED:
1. Pay more attention to the little things. For example, we forgot to unwrap the reefing line tails when raising the main. Not good.
2. All my gear worked out perfectly. No complaints on any of it. All the great advice I received in my "Go Bag" thread (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/58162-whats-go-bag-crewing.html) was right on the money. The only thing I didn't have a use for was my waterproof iPhone case. I thought I'd use the iPhone way more than I actually did. It's limited battery life, and my Garmin Foretrex 401, made the iPhone a far less important tool in the box.
3. The camel-back pack is a seriously awesome tool for when you're too busy to take a drink break. I stayed perfectly hydrated the whole trip...in 95+ degree temps.
4. My water-proof fanny pack was indispensable. It contained stuff I needed handy while sailing (seasick meds, headlamp, gum, knife, etc.) as well as emergency stuff if I happen to go overboard (handheld VHF, strobe/flashlight, GPS, additional knife/leatherman, whistle, etc.).
5. The 24 hour sailing was not as bad as I expected. I was definitely tired after 3 days of it during the race - but it was tolerable. Now, 2-3 weeks of it would probably be another story. Maybe I'll see someday.
6. South Padre Island rocks.
7. The Pacific Seacraft 37 Crealock cutter is an incredible boat. Very stable and still fast. James is a lucky man.

*8. I AM DEFINITELY GOING TO DO THIS AGAIN! Hopefully in the fall.*_

So stay tuned!


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## St Anna

Great stuff Smacker, cant get the photos to come up though.


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## smackdaddy

Bummer. Looks like photobucket is down. They should show up when pb comes back.


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## RocketScience

Glad to hear you were able to experience this. As you discovered, there's really nothing like it....welcome to bluewater BFS!


In checking my Tarot Cards, I see a move to an ocean community in your near future.


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## smackdaddy

Thanks Rocket. And yeah, it's rather addicting. I felt like Marion Barry on a Friday night.

The lake is just never going to be the same again. But it will be a great opportunity to really focus on racing skills. The wife even expressed an interest in getting into some match racing after talking to several chicks at the bonfire.

So it's all good!


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## blt2ski

They've been working for me, ie photos since I first saw the post!.........

Marty


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## HDChopper

Smoken ride Smack !

and with a little class like Muddy Waters in the air what can go wrong 

Luckydogg ya did it ! and got the proof hahahaha 'SM women indeed 

thanks for not leaveing us out in the cold on your fun brudda ...


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## john1066

Excellent adventure, Smackman! The hooks in and set - your life will never be the same again. 

About five years ago I was invited to crew on a Galveston to Padre Island race but had to decline due to other commitments - the boat was dismasted shortly after the start, so probably fortuitous from my point of view.


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## Ajax_MD

Great write-up Smack. Some good lessons in there that I'll take with me.

I'm racing my boat in the Eastport to Solomons overnight race on July 15th (about 50 miles). I'll be heading out to get your Energizer head lamps.

As far as I'm concerned, you didn't have anything to prove to anyone, but you did it anyway. 500 miles is nothing to sneeze at and you're obviously hooked for more. No one's going to be able to give you flak anymore.


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## capnvega

Smack, that was some fun reading!!! Interesting pixs too. I hope you re-read it in a few years.........You'll get some yuks out of it, but you will be proud of the work you put into it............Glad you got a taste of what it is all about man. It's a life changing experience for many.


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## smackdaddy

Thanks guys.

John - what was the story on the dismasting? Just rig failure or was the weather snotty?

Bubble - I look forward to your write up on the Eastport-Solomons race. Kick 'em in the teeth dude! Oh, and as for the something to prove, you're right. I mean, I knew those guys were full of it even way back then when I was complete newb in FC. It's just fun to remind them of that and rub it in their faces a bit. Guys like that try to make sailing scary and complicated - for whatever reason. Yeah, it has those elements to it, but for the most part it's far more exciting and adventurous than anything else. Everyone should try it!


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## john1066

smackdaddy said:


> John - what was the story on the dismasting? Just rig failure or was the weather snotty?


Rig failure - badly set up and maintained. Fairly moderate conditions according to my son-in-law who was aboard.


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## smackdaddy

john1066 said:


> Rig failure - badly set up and maintained. Fairly moderate conditions according to my son-in-law who was aboard.


Good thing it happened at the start and not 50 miles out.


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## jibjefe

The big sailing is sailing on your own island. You definitely are the king of the world on a big sailing boat. It is one of the most unique experiences a human can experience. The freedom you feel in a big boat is incomparable to any other small ones. The grandiosity of such an adventure can only be lived and not described.


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## RTB

Smackdaddy - I just saw your report on the Race to the Border. Great! I'm happy it worked out for ya. Too bad the winds didn't cooperate, but that's sailin. Ya gets what ya gets. Now, if you want more....i2f is looking for crew from Panama to Hawaii!  Or, another friend might be looking for crew after hurricane season, sailing back to Texas from Rio Dulce, Guatamala.

IMO, it is risky trying to find crew (or get a crew position) on the forums. It has worked for me though, so far. I met i2f through one of the boards, drove to Florida for his Fall Ball, and later sailed to Colombia from NE Florida with him and Mel. Definitely the trip of a lifetime for me.

Thanks again for the report, smack. Btw, I did the Harvest Moon Regatta with James aboard Rhapsody. We had more than enough wind for that one...YouTube - ‪Mono hull sailing next to Lagoon 420 Catamaran in the 2010 Harvest Moon Regatta‬‏

Ralph


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## WDS123

Standing night watch in 35-40 knots sustained about 300 miles southeast of Halifax - we sailed with a triple reef main and a postage stamp foresail. I still think most of the power was simply from the Windage in the rigging and spars. there was hardly any sail. 

We decided to broad reach and had a wild ride all night.


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## smackdaddy

WDSchock said:


> Standing night watch in 35-40 knots sustained about 300 miles southeast of Halifax - we sailed with a triple reef main and a postage stamp foresail. I still think most of the power was simply from the Windage in the rigging and spars. there was hardly any sail.
> 
> We decided to broad reach and had a wild ride all night.


Now that's a BFS WD. How big were the seas? And how fast were you going on the reach?


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## smackdaddy

RTB said:


> Smackdaddy - I just saw your report on the Race to the Border. Great! I'm happy it worked out for ya. Too bad the winds didn't cooperate, but that's sailin. Ya gets what ya gets. Now, if you want more....i2f is looking for crew from Panama to Hawaii!  Or, another friend might be looking for crew after hurricane season, sailing back to Texas from Rio Dulce, Guatamala.
> 
> IMO, it is risky trying to find crew (or get a crew position) on the forums. It has worked for me though, so far. I met i2f through one of the boards, drove to Florida for his Fall Ball, and later sailed to Colombia from NE Florida with him and Mel. Definitely the trip of a lifetime for me.
> 
> Thanks again for the report, smack. Btw, I did the Harvest Moon Regatta with James aboard Rhapsody. We had more than enough wind for that one...YouTube - ‪Mono hull sailing next to Lagoon 420 Catamaran in the 2010 Harvest Moon Regatta‬‏
> 
> Ralph


Hey Ralph! Thanks again for hooking me up on that ride! And it was great meeting you and your wife.

I wish I could crew big jumps like that. But work always interferes. Anyway, even if I can't crew with him, I sure hope to meet i2f at some point.


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## WDS123

smackdaddy said:


> Now that's a BFS WD. How big were the seas? And how fast were you going on the reach?


The seas weren't all that memorable. The period must have been large and the waves defined, so we were doing the surfing bit.

How fast ? We ended up 200 miles off course after a around 12-15 hours of this, but VMG wasn't our primary consideration during the night.

The boat was a ultra high performance boat designed to win the Transpacific and similar events. There were 5 of us on board. 4 very experienced and 1 decently experienced.

Sleeping was the most interesting, laying against the hull - the water sounded like a fire hose.


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## smackdaddy

Holy crap WD!!! 200 miles in 12-15 hours??? It might not have "made good" but that's definitely some velocity!

Was the boat one of yours?

(BTW - it's great to have you on SN. Welcome.)


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## HDChopper

2nd that WD glad ytour here..

Surfing is one of the first things I plan on perfecting!

"_The period must have been large and the waves defined_" tid bits are gold


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## PaulinVictoria

Not much of a BFS by some of you guy's standards, but for a someone in their first full season with a boat, pretty big for me.
Anyway, took a work colleague sailing after work. Wind was fairly decent, had been around 9-10 knots all day, and at 4pm it had dropped down to about 6. Forecast was for a little over 5 going into the evening so thought it would be a fairly gentle wander around. Anyway, get out of the office there's definitely more than 5 or 6 knots happening. Called the Admiral on the way to boat to see if there was an updated reading, sure enough up around 10 knots again, with the forecast still for it to tail right off. Being the sort that never trusts a forecast round here, I put a reef in the main and hanked on the 135 genoa.
Get out of the harbour, turn us into wind and start getting the main sorted out. Reef point promptly drops off the rams horn, workmate goes forward to get that sorted. So far so good, get the main up, tell him to take the tiller and keep us to the wind so I can sort out the rest of the reef. Engine promptly splutters and dies. Anyway, get him to let it turn off the wind to get some speed up and we eventually get the main done.
By this time we were running just under main at 5 knots, which was pretty fun. Got the genoa up as well and then spent a good 90 minutes haring around, wind gusting and putting us on our ear at times, rode some of them, headed up for some and let the main for others, depending on how I felt but always under control. Great sail around, hit 6.65knots through the water, and 6.9 over land at one point, which isn't bad for a boat with a 20ft waterline!
Anyway, got back in with little trouble, checked the weather and turns out it had been a sustained 16 knots, with gusts to 20 (edit - actually 33kph sustained which is just shy of 18, so must have been gusting to early 20s!). Glad I put that first reef in or it would have been a bit of a handful.
So, not much of a BFS as far as it goes, but the highest winds I've had my boat out in, and considering I was the most experienced on board, that makes it a BFS in my book.
Oh and the motor quit just as we entered the slip too. I gotta get the idle speed upped a touch!


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## Faster

Nicely done Paul... 

a hint... take a piece of shock cord, tie it to your gooseneck area somehow and fashion an eye that just stretches over the 'rams horn'. You can make it double ended so you've got one for each hook. Then when you place the reef tack over the hook, loop the shock cord over it too, that will keep the cringle from falling off the hook before you get enough luff tension to keep it there.


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## PaulinVictoria

Thanks for the tip, I'll take a look and figure something out. I think I've got a couple of the old shock cord sail ties that might do the job.


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## smackdaddy

PaulinVictoria said:


> ...So, not much of a BFS as far as it goes, but the highest winds I've had my boat out in, and considering I was the most experienced on board, that makes it a BFS in my book.


It is ABSOLUTELY A BFS!!!!! You just came through conditions that were harrier than you'd ever faced before. And you did a great job of it...and had fun!!! That's what BFS is all about baby!

As a matter of fact, go register on bfsshop.com and I'll set you up to get a free sticker. This one's on me.

Nice work Paul.


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## PaulinVictoria

Sweet, nice one Smack, all signed up. Some pretty nice gear on there too, when I've earned a few more BFS points, I'll direct the family to get me some crap off there


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## smackdaddy

Okay Paul. After overcoming A FREAKIN' MAIL EMBARGO BETWEEN THE US AND CANADA!!!! (What the hell????)

...your coveted BFS stickers (yes two of them my friend) are on their merry way. Flaunt them proudly. You deserve them dude!

Now is big sailing the sh%& or what? Speaking of, I think I need to ship a stick to the Bumfuzzles. Those cats is hardcore!


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## imagine2frolic

Nice write up smack,

I just had to look up this write up to see how things went. Sounds like a great introduction to Mother Ocean! Now that you put your big toe in the water to test the pool. You just have to jump right in, and see the real pleasures. Lake sailing can be wicked, but nothing replaces Mother Ocean. It can be frustrating, exhilarating, and sometime just out right scary!

RTB completely understands not wanting to give up the helm. He kept a watch all night long with the influence of adreneline. Fortunately I woke up to get my sunrise shift, my favorite.

As far as meeting me? Well I am saving that 300ft. of teak rubrail for you. Along with another 90ft. of toerail:laugher.! BEST WISHES on getting another M.O. sail ride soon. Hopefully you will get some bigger wind next time, and the experience that goes with it.

I think we have finally found crew, and if not. I will be leaving without crew soon, except for my little brown love, aka Melanie! She's like my flea. She goes where ever this old dog goes:laugher..........*i2f*


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## aeventyr60

*Bfs*

Ok so about 6 weeks ago we are on the East coast of Palawan Island, Philippines, the last frontier as they call it. We are nearing the end of a 1 year voyage around the top of Borneo and the Western part of the Philippines. Beautiful cruising, lazy days at anchor, blue skys, plenty of fish, cold beer, friendly natives. very, very few cruising boats here. We have not anchored with another boat for about 6 weeks. So any way, day sailing on and off the anchor to the next anchorage, easy cruising. Our departure down the So China sea coming up, no specific date, just gotta be ahead of the upcoming cyclone season and catch the last of the NE Monsoon. So one day were checking out our next anchorage and don't like what we see....time to move on South? Sure, we turn 90 degrees West, just like that and head off for the 1000 mile journey. First gotta get out of these coral infested waters into the Palawan Passage, about 60 miles, easy does it, slow and sure, picking our way through the shallows, charts off, max sea off, MKII eyeball, depth sounder spot on. Whew, out into the Palawan passage, light breezes, 10 knots or less, pleasant sailing, light ship traffic, No AIS, radar, or any electronic ********, MK II eyeballs working 100 %. Now have to parrelell the "dangerous ground", disputed area of China, Philippines, Malaysia, adds 120 miles to our passage, no worries, still gentel breezes, we sleep by day, drifting along, eating our fresh fruit, baking bread, making pizza's and a little whoopie too. Now at the bottom of the "dangerous ground" back on our rhumb line, have not started the engine for 7 days, winds getting lighter as we get closer to the equator, my gal saying this is really nice, don't start the engine...we drift along, 54 miles for the day. Now down to 1 knot or less, getting some rolling seas so we motor at night for a few days....sleep in the day, gentle sailing, no wind over 12 knots for 11 days. we arrive back in Tioman Island after a years voyage....

Not sure if that's what your after, but my BFS story for the day.
Cheers,

Matt


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## smackdaddy

i2 - you're doing it right my man! And you've got a beauty of a wife to boot. Stay in touch on your travels. When you get back up to SF I'll bring my sander and some beers.

Matt - very nice story. Sounds like big freakin' sailing to me...especially this part:



> China, Philippines, Malaysia, adds 120 miles to our passage, no worries, still gentel breezes, we sleep by day, drifting along, eating our fresh fruit, baking bread, making pizza's and a little whoopie too.


Dude, what's not to like????


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## dub420sailor

*not sure if BFS or boat handling...*

Took out my friend's Hunter 25 a few weeks ago. Wind was between 15 and 20 kts, seas 5-6 feet with periods of 4 seconds. Both of us are new to keelboat sailing and weren't too sure as to the stability of the steering (felt like there was some play in the tiller) so we went out with a reef in the jib and a reef in the main. Went out a few miles but we were only making 3.5 knots... Didn't seem like enough power to get through the chop (alot of breaking waves) but taking a reef out seemed like it would provide too much power... We were no where near having the rail in the water, but I didn't want to get too close since the waves on our port tack were rolling the boat enough to put it in a few times due to the angle we were taking on the swells. The lack of power made tacking difficult as we kept getting blown into irons, but we played it safe and left the reef in, surfed her back into the inlet and shook the reef out for the return trip to the mooring.

Had a blast and learned a bit, especially that I wanted more solid steering in those conditions, but I'm curious what would you guys do? Power up and play the main and traveler or leave it be?


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## smackdaddy

dub420sailor said:


> *Had a blast and learned a bit, *


Definitely BFS dub. Nicely done!

As for feedback - 15 knots is just about the sweet spot on my C27 with a full 150 and full main. 20 starts to ask for a reef. I honestly don't know what that translates to on an H25. I've sailed an H30 a couple of times, but in pretty mild conditions. It didn't seem too tender...but again, I don't know.

It seems to me that if you were too slow to deal with the chop, you had some room for more sail. However, if those waves were breaking (instead of capping) - then that explains the difficulty.

A SN salt and hell of a guy, CharlieCobra, taught me how to deal with gusts using the traveler and main sheet...seeing and easing in the puffs. That lesson alone let me sail in bigger winds.

Apart from the squirrelly steering on that Hunter, you're not going to get blown over in 20 knots. You just need to work the main controls to keep your speed. And that speed will help you power through the chop.

That's my feedback - but remember, I'm still learning just like you. So take it for what it's worth.

And keep sailing dude!


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## Dean101

*First single-handed docking under sail*

I'm still a newbie sailor so my story will probably be a day at the park for most of you. Here goes....

It was a Saturday morning on Kentucky Lake. I had made the 2.5 hr drive right after work on Friday to get an early start for the weekend. I had slept in that morning, just enjoying the feel and the smells of my Endeavour 32, the first boat I have ever owned. The marina is located 3 miles up Blood River and the hills and trees tend to keep the wind high. They were very light and variable that day anyway so I decided to motor out to the main lake before putting up the sails. Since it was summer, the marina ramp located about 30' from my slip had a line of trailors putting in. My slip was actually on the same dock as the fuel pumps and it had powerboats circling like vultures waiting for the feast. Blood river itself had lots of skiers and fishing boats cruising around.

When I was ready I took in my dock lines and pushed her out at an angle to miss the patio dock 5' to port and the 2 pontoons directly behind me, backed out past the end of the dock, turned and headed for the lake. I locked the wheel brake, retrieved my fenders, and removed the cover on the main. It was such a beautiful day! The channel is rather narrow and hugs the bank pretty much all the way to the mouth of the river. I was keeping a good lookout for swimmers in the water, watching for the next channel bouy, and trying to decide whether to go north or south on the lake when the motor revved up unexpectedly. The boat slowed as I throttled back and I lost steerageway and started to drift towards shallow water. My "what the hell" turned into "holy s***"!

My first thought was to get the main up and regain control of the boat, which I did. Not enough wind! I pulled out the jib and as I did so I got a lucky puff of wind! Freya started moving so I turned and headed back to the marina. I had to hug the south side of the channel because of the hills and trees blocking my wind. I would get a gust that pushed me forward on a reach then have to coast through a dead spot. When I turned into the branch to reach the marina the winds seemed to come from right over the top of my slip. Boats were everywhere and I had to constantly tack because of the confined space and shifting breeze.

I circled just outside the no wake zone waiting for an opening in traffic that never appeared, tied on the fenders, and readied my docklines. Since I had the only sailboat in the marina and at 32' LOA, I probably made quite the spectacle. I decided to just go on in and pray that the powerboaters would get out of the way. I figured the law of tonnage was working for me since Freya weighs 11,600 lbs. At this point I was really worried. The winds were so light and shifted so much that I worked my butt off just trying to keep headway. What happened next seemed like an eternity but I'm sure lasted only a few minutes. I rolled up the jib, continued with the main, missed the derelict dock floats to port, lost all wind, tacked to starboard while coasting, got another lucky gust, tacked to port missing the 2 pontoons by just a few feet, doglegged around them, released the main sheet, and coasted to a perfect landing in my 15' wide cubbyhole of a slip, stepped onto the pier and snubbed her to a stop.

At this point I learned a few things.

1. *Docking is a spectator sport.* People, especially the ones in powerboats that don't know anything about sailing, love to watch sailors dock. I had quite the crowd watching with rapt attention. 
2. *Always appear as if you have things under control even if you're scared sh**less.* I was complimented by several people about just how "totally cool" that was. I also learned that you could not drive a 10 penny nail up my butthole with a 20 lb sledgehammer up to that point because I was so tensed up! I think they call it grace under pressure.
3. *It is ALWAYS the smart thing to keep the main ready to hoist even when motoring.* I never untied the dock lines thereafter until I readied the main first. 
4.* KNOW YOUR BOAT!* Had I known that the stuffing box would overheat if the compression nut was too tight, the prop shaft probably wouldn't have been weakened to the point it broke. 
5.* Singlehanding can be pretty rigorous sometimes.*
6. And lastly, *a cold beer goes a long way for settling frazzled nerves!*

This was my first single-handed docking under sail alone, 2nd in my sailing experience, and it had to be in a crowded and confined marina with barely enough wind to work with. Although I will admit I was worried about my boat and pretty scared I was going to screw up the landing or hit someone elses boat, I do feel a bit of pride that I handled what was a very stressful and scary experience, at least for me, with apparent calm and acted sensibly to bring my boat home safe.


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## Sublime

Speaking of landings, I have one from a few weeks ago.
The wind forecast was for 15-20 knts in the morning then really blow in the afternoon. This is fine for me since the high is for over 100F. I figured I could get some sailing in, be back by 1pm before it got hot. It'd be pleasant, I'd be comfortable. Lovely. So, I drag myself and Penelope out of bed and to the lake.
A sailing instructor stopped me after I had unloaded Penelope. She’s a unique boat, being that she's English, and always starts a conversation. He made mention of how hard it must be single handing her then spent 20-30 minutes yammering on about how wonderful he is then lets me go. The day is already warming up a bit by the time I get to the boat.
The outboard doesn’t exactly hum along like it should, but still reliable so I've put off some maintenance. It has a new plug, a clean carburetor, but the fuel filter could use replacing. 
My procrastination caught up with me that day. 
The sailing instructor had watched me yank on the outboard, jiggle some things, peek under the cover and saw that I had given up on it having determined its problem wasn’t something I would fix on the lake. The wind was going as predicted so I figured I'll launch and retrieve under sail.
He yells from his car, "Motor won't start?"
As I tossed off dock lines, I yelled back, "Nope." I gave a hearty shove. He laughed and gave me a thumbs up. I raised the reefed canvas, trimmed up and off we went. As fast as we were moving, I figured I could go to one end of the lake and come back. It was going to be a fun day.
As predicted, we screamed to the other side of the lake. And then the wind died. 
Hmph. I shook out the reef. Well, sometimes you need be patient.






My patience wore out an hour later. The wind was not 20 kts as predicted. Maybe 3. Or less. It wasn't even kicking up the telltales at times. The 3 knts then went to 0. But suddenly pipes up to 1 knt.
Shoot, it's hot out even with my feet over the rail trailing in the water. The sun is straight up in the air and I have no shade from the sails. I try the motor again. Nope. Not even a “putt-putt” from it. I pulled out the oars. I learned I need to practice rowing. The telltales are still quiet.	
I eye the lake water as to whether or not it's safe to drink. I decide not to. I manage to pick up some wind as I sucked down the last of my water. 
Slowly I make way towards the boat ramp. About 100 yards out, the wind shifts in the worst possible direction for me. Okay, I'll alter course and strategy. I get to the side of the ramp, about 100 yards away, and again, the wind shifts. Frustration is now heating up my already sunburned face. I manage to get out of the invisible hole I was in and am now quite hot, thirsty and frustrated. Finally, a little breeze that’ll work for me and I'm headed back to the boat ramp, ready to land this thing. 
I'd rather have just one sail to deal with, but without everything up, I don't make progress. Landing with three sails, a tiller and two hands it is. Maybe I can use my feet for something? I wished I had one of those super long middle toes I could use as a thumb.
Ridiculous this is. Who thought of this?
****! 
I'm about 40 feet away from the dock. The wind kicks up enough to heel the boat over. This is the worst possible time for this! Where in the eff was this wind all day long??
"Brat!" 
I let the main and mizzen loose. The jib is still doing a fine job of pulling the boat forward. Some swimmers on shore have turned into lookie-loos as Penelope comes charging towards the dock. 
I slacken the jib. I still have to hang onto it to get some power since I don't have much momentum in this boat. I'm standing up with one hand on the jib, finessing it to get the right amount of power from this gusty shifty four-letter-word wind I suddenly have and a dock line in the other. The centerboard is up a bit to avoid grounding so Penelope is sliding sideways as we come in. The tiller is between my knees and as the dock comes up, I let the jib go, cut the tiller over to move the stern closer to the dock and lasso the dock cleat which I have been dreaming about for the past four hours. The sails are flogging themselves to death. The wind shifts as I’m tying off the bow and the sheet lines start slapping me in the face. I finally get the sails down and take a seat. I don't remember ever being so happy to see a freaking dock.

Later, I take a look at the motor. The safety clip is not quite all the way in. Sonofa...


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## CirclethatA

I was once on an epic voyage from Vashon Islan to Olympia, my port of call.

We weighed anchor just after breakfast, just after the slack tide. The idea was for the three of us and the cheoy lee 27' to ride the flood all the way down. The forecast was less than spectacular, with winds on the lighter side. But ****, it was sunny. After 6 months of complaining of rain, it wasn't right to complain about wind once the day star showed up again. We sailed over to the entrance, full canvas, then flew the spinnaker on a run down the first leg. We made some progress over water, but the current must have been 6k. it's a weird when you feel like your going nowhere, until you look up at the bridge and realize your really flying. Once we passed that bridge though, the water opened up... and the wind! oh the WIND!!!!!

It died. Completely. The sails could hardly decide if they wanted to stay on the leeward side of the boat. One of us sat on the lee rail so they wouldn't have to worry so much about making up their mind. If we had any steering at all we would have tried to avoid the irregular water flows ahead. But we couldn't. We rode that flood straight into a web of vortexes, and we spun like a top. I took the 14' oar out, and tried to guide the boat into more favorable currents. It seemed that just over _there_ the tide was an actual current and not just an assortment of whirlpools. It wasn't. perhaps i was seasick and was seeing things. More likely I was just dizzy. In the end we sat around for 3 hours, spinning, bobbing. Making jokes about how w've given new meaning to the term "go with the flow", and how sailing sucks and we should be able to transform our sailboat into a motor boat at the flick of a button. We also fiddled with everything, lines of all kinds. halyards, cunningham, topping lift, outhaul, sheets, anything. Damn sails are blown out, and they we probably wanted them flatter than they were even brand new. It began to feel like like we could be reaching... if was only a bit stronger...

We chatted and dreamed of big freaking sails (both the noun and the verb). So we lashed the spinnaker pole to the foredeck and poked it as far as we dared of the bow. Set the spinnaker on it flying, with the number 1 behind it, and the main up too. Basically the three largest sails in a configuration that doesn't really make any sense; it's a masthead sloop. It didn't help much, but it did something. We had steerage back, so we must have been making some kind of progress. We were probably there for another hour before the wind actually started to do something. And it couldn't have been at a better time, the high tide was there and the choice was looming: anchor and wait for the next flood, or get sucked back out with the ebb. We dropped one of our headsails (heh), because honestly it probably wasn't doing anything. In the end the wind was strong enough to fight the current, having already gone through the quickest part, and we eventually lazied our way back to the budd inlet, and sailed ever so slowly into the fairway, and sculled that 3.5 tons back into the slip. Better late than never.


----------



## smackdaddy

F10? Yep, that rates.






Even on a huge 4KSB.


----------



## smackdaddy

When you can say "wheeeee" in F9 on an emergency tiller...you're in the BFS zone...


----------



## smackdaddy

Another F10 joy-ride. Listen to that wind...


----------



## smackdaddy

A BIG throwdown from the Supernorthies!

Fistbump to flyingwelshman!!!



flyingwelshman said:


> This is my fifth season sailing and I had the best sail yet last week.
> 
> I was out with a buddy from work.
> 
> The plan was to sail across Georgian Bay in the south (from Midland to White Cloud Island), then head up the Eastern side of the Bruce Peninsula to Wingfield Basin (Cabot Head), then cross back over to the East side of Georgian Bay, coming in around Franklin Island (just North of Parry Sound) and back to Midland.
> 
> The challenge was that we had only 5 days in which to make the trip.
> 
> The first leg was supposed to be Midland to White Cloud. The wind was on our nose the whole way North and backed to stay on our nose when we turned West. It took us 9 hours of beating into 15 knots to make Hope Island, which is about 20 miles from Midland and 40ish miles from White Cloud. We stayed at Hope and planned on an early start across the Bay.
> 
> Next day: no wind!!! We motored across to the West Side. No BFS here!
> 
> The forecast was for NE 10knts veering to E 15knts. Great winds to head up the peninsula. We left White Cloud wing and wing with a light westerly pushing us at a heart-pounding 2.5 - 3.5 knts.
> 
> By the time we made the turn to head North the wind had dried right up. We doused the sails and turned on the kicker and decided to make for Lion's Head for lunch.
> 
> A fog had settled in giving us about a mile visibility and it was raining. Not exactly what the weather gurus had foretold.
> 
> We had made our turn to West after Cape Croker and started past Barrier Island when I saw some fluttering in my telltales. What the hell, let's hoist the sails and see what happens.
> 
> No sooner than the sails were set but the wind kicked right up. It seemed to be the NE wind that was promised. This is nice.
> 
> The wind kept building and building from the North East until we were flying along at over 6 knots. The wind and waves were building, the wave heights getting up to over a metre. White caps were forming and foam was beginning to spray from the crests.
> 
> We approached Lion's Head under full canvas, with the jib vibrating and the main taut. We still intended to head into the town for lunch. As we got closer to the turn down to Lion's Head I suggested that we keep going for Wingfield. The wind direction was right and I was having too much fun to stop. Craig agreed so we adjusted our course to a more Northerly heading and headed up the coast to Cabot Head which was now visible on the horizon.
> 
> The winds increased and shifted to a slightly more Easterly direction putting us on a close to beam reach. The waves were now approaching 3 metres in height and were breaking all around us. The boat speed never dropped below 6 for the 4 hours that we were sailing toward Wingfield. Each time we surfed down a wave we yelled out the speed that showed on the GPS. The fastest we saw was 9.3 knots! There was a period of 10 - 15 minutes in which the GPS showed we were traveling in excess of 7 knots.
> 
> I decided to turn on the VHF, just so that it was ready in case anything went awry. The only broadcasts seemed to be Coast Guard communications. At one point a Hercules aircraft flew at a low level, across our path. We saw it later in what appeared to be a search pattern.
> 
> We were getting closer to Wingfield when I started to worry about how we were going to get the sails down in the wind and waves. Wingfield has a very narrow channel going in with rocks on either side. Sailing in is possible, but definitely not preferable.
> 
> As it turned out, by the time we got close to the entrance the wind seemed to have lightened up a bit. I put the jib in the lee of the main and we were able to roll it on to the furler quite easily. We turned into the wind, I clipped myself on to my newly installed jacklines and headed up onto the deck to take down the main. The waves were still very steep with short periods, so it was quite a balancing act hanging on and easing the halyard. It turned out going a lot more smoothly than I expected though and I soon had the sail on the boom. I didn't bother with the sail ties at this point.
> 
> We motored in to the calm waters of Wingfield Basin and dropped anchor for the night.
> 
> A great day of sailing!
> 
> I have to say that the boat handled admirably! I have always been a bit concerned about its durability - it doesn't seem to be designed for aggressive sailing. But she rode the waves effortlessly, and, even without the sails reefed, didn't feel to be under any stress.
> 
> Another thing that pleased me was my autohelm (Ray Marine ST2000). It handled most of the steering for us. When I took over I realized the force on the tiller. The tiller pilot kept up with the strain.
> 
> At Wingfield we went ashore to explore the Lighthouse there. I started chatting with another sailor who had arrived shortly before us. He told me that he was getting wind speed readings of consistently 25 - 26 knots with periods reaching as high as 32 knots.
> 
> I'm sure for some of you these conditions would not be worth mentioning, but for me, given my lack of experience, my 26 foot Nash, 3 metre (10 foot) waves and 32 knot winds, it was definitely an exhilarating experience.
> 
> Here is a chart to give you a rough idea of the route: (we covered approximately 36 nautical miles that day.)


----------



## smackdaddy

SWEET! Look who's livin' the BFS life...










bumfuzzle.com: 10-Aug-2011 our life. daily. puerto vallarta, mexico.

See the BFS Boozies on the table? A sippy cup and a Sol chaser! Now that's livin'! Heh-heh.

They are definitely breeding a new generation of big freakin' sailors!

Go the Fuzzles!!!!


----------



## smackdaddy

It's funny, I, my wife, and our two boys went to the boat today for a sail. The wind was absolutely perfect at 15 knots. From the northeast - so perfect for the GR course run. I was excited. I'd challenged the boys to turn the boat over to them to see if they could get it from point A to B. And they were ready.

But, we got there and were screwed. Our marina had been pushed out into the lake because the water level has dropped so much due to the drought. The result was that we were stuck in our slip. There were rocks literally 25 feet off our stern, with the wind pushing us right into them. No way to back out a 27 footer.

So, why am I posting in BFS? Simple, my wife and I sat in the cockpit, drinking D&S's while the boys swam, and talked seriously about springing for the "coastal boat" and spending some time in the islands. Big hurdle overcome.

Sailing has become a real part of our lives as a family. We all love it. And it doesn't get bigger than that.

I love this whole sailing thing. IMUSO, it's life's best privilege....bar none.


----------



## Sublime

smackdaddy said:


> I love this whole sailing thing. IMUSO, it's life's best privilege....bar none.


No doubt!

I love the moment the sound of the motor gets replaced by sounds of the hull slicing through the water.


----------



## captflood

GREETINGS EARTHLINGS; Yep I can still remember those days Dad and I trying to Scare the the BEEJEEUSE out of eachother in the Irish Sea just to see who would bottle it first, Been there done that and now the tee-shirt is a duster. Buy a Ketch or a Yawl twelve cominations of sails and there all managable no big deal, GO SAFE


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - lots of critics around who seem to really know how to sail. So how about some fresh new BFSs?

Anyone pull down some big stuff this season? Or was it just the year of the Pleasant Daysail and Keyboard Quarterbacking?


----------



## craigtoo

*labor day*

First iPhone post!

Heading west across the bay from love point to Magothy river!

SINGLEHANDING!!!

Reefed main! FULL JIB BABY!

20ish kts gusts

17 steady

More pics to follow!


----------



## craigtoo

Come to think of it ... It was a week or two before labor day....


----------



## craigtoo

This is before I tacked back west...


----------



## craigtoo

Speed...

Love my boat! Nothing wrong with a singlehanding BFS!


----------



## sailortjk1

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - lots of critics around who seem to really know how to sail. So how about some fresh new BFSs?
> 
> Anyone pull down some big stuff this season? Or was it just the year of the Pleasant Daysail and Keyboard Quarterbacking?


Not exactly bfs as,we were bare poles at the time.
I posted this video on the thunderstorm thread about a month ago.
Not sure I can embed it while posting from my phone.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


----------



## craigtoo

Tim!

My BFS is better than yours! (you just happen to have a hot lady in yours...!!!)


----------



## sailortjk1

Lol. 
I agree, yours is better as you are actually sailing. Ha.


----------



## zeehag

we managed to get hit north of cabo san lucas by 60+ kts winds in may, around may 15th---and got the brick up to 8+ kts under jib n jigger, both reefed----glad i thunk of that before we left isla cedros-- was a good call as winds pick up here suddenly ..boat handled it fine. also glad i was sailing in those danged storms in g.o.m--- the high winds inside em were a good learning experience.....was looking forward to having more of same after we left cabo --stopped for fuel before crossing sea of cortez-- zero wind less than 1 hour after the 60+ kts just north of us!!
if you have a teak taff rail-- do NOT prevent your mizzen to it--it WILL break....now i prevent to a hawse .....is strong.


----------



## craigtoo

zeehag said:


> we managed to get hit north of cabo san lucas by 60+ kts winds in may, around may 15th---and got the brick up to 8+ kts under jib n jigger, both reefed----glad i thunk of that before we left isla cedros-- was a good call as winds pick up here suddenly ..boat handled it fine. also glad i was sailing in those danged storms in g.o.m--- the high winds inside em were a good learning experience.....was looking forward to having more of same after we left cabo --stopped for fuel before crossing sea of cortez-- zero wind less than 1 hour after the 60+ kts just north of us!!
> if you have a teak taff rail-- do NOT prevent your mizzen to it--it WILL break....now i prevent to a hawse .....is strong.


I have a friend... On another board... That likes to prevent his main on the lifelines. He also likes to chain his boat to the dock. Yes. I'm serious. CRAZY! Chain for dock lines? It happens. I love the Internet.


----------



## zeehag

preventing to lifelines is nutz... this woulda ripped em out, too....was FUN!!! the noise of the teak rail breaking was impressive!


----------



## craigtoo

zeehag said:


> preventing to lifelines is nutz... this woulda ripped em out, too....was FUN!!! the noise of the teak rail breaking was impressive!


Youre a good man Zee! I was making a joke about a post on another site...

Nice story... BFS'rs love to see pics. But damn it's hard to have the nerve to pull out a camera at that time. Look at that wind in tjk vid! Crazy! I don't think I would have had the nerve to make a vid. He made sure everyone was safe first then took out his camera.... Cool.

I need to make BFS vids... Not just pics... Go TIM!


----------



## zeehag

i'm a gurlee.....didnt have time to get the camera--was asleep when it woke me up and was darkness--awesome sailing tho--i never did get back to sleep! had a really good crewman to help sail her the 1250 miles from ensenada to mazatlan. awesome trip. wish i did have pix of that good wind section-- woulda been awesome!


----------



## St Anna

Sorry Smacker, certainly not a BFS, but a nice quiet day heading to the sandhills.

http://s665.photobucket.com/albums/vv14/saintanna/?action=view&current=Rushcutter2011073.mp4


----------



## tdw

Smack,
We were intending on heading up the coast this weekend but weather intervened. Spent Saturday evening/Sundy at anchor, bucketing down, miserable bloody weather, nothing to do but eat drink nap read. Maybe no BFS but it was not all that hard to take at all. 
A



smackdaddy said:


> It's funny, I, my wife, and our two boys went to the boat today for a sail. The wind was absolutely perfect at 15 knots. From the northeast - so perfect for the GR course run. I was excited. I'd challenged the boys to turn the boat over to them to see if they could get it from point A to B. And they were ready.
> 
> But, we got there and were screwed. Our marina had been pushed out into the lake because the water level has dropped so much due to the drought. The result was that we were stuck in our slip. There were rocks literally 25 feet off our stern, with the wind pushing us right into them. No way to back out a 27 footer.
> 
> So, why am I posting in BFS? Simple, my wife and I sat in the cockpit, drinking D&S's while the boys swam, and talked seriously about springing for the "coastal boat" and spending some time in the islands. Big hurdle overcome.
> 
> Sailing has become a real part of our lives as a family. We all love it. And it doesn't get bigger than that.
> 
> I love this whole sailing thing. IMUSO, it's life's best privilege....bar none.


----------



## smackdaddy

St Anna said:


> Sorry Smacker, certainly not a BFS, but a nice quiet day heading to the sandhills.
> 
> Rushcutter2011073.mp4 video by saintanna - Photobucket


Dude, that was beautiful. Video like that deserves it's own category. It's freakin' awesome.


----------



## smackdaddy

craigtoo said:


> First iPhone post!
> 
> Heading west across the bay from love point to Magothy river!
> 
> SINGLEHANDING!!!
> 
> Reefed main! FULL JIB BABY!
> 
> 20ish kts gusts
> 
> 17 steady
> 
> More pics to follow!


Craig, my friend, you sail. Nuff said.


----------



## smackdaddy

sailortjk1 said:


> Not exactly bfs as,we were bare poles at the time.
> I posted this video on the thunderstorm thread about a month ago.
> Not sure I can embed it while posting from my phone.
> 
> YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


Holy crap dude! I'd say that definitely rates.

SN! Pay attention! These are the guys that can throw down!


----------



## smackdaddy

zeehag said:


> we managed to get hit north of cabo san lucas by 60+ kts winds in may, around may 15th---and got the brick up to 8+ kts under jib n jigger, both reefed----glad i thunk of that before we left isla cedros-- was a good call as winds pick up here suddenly ..boat handled it fine. also glad i was sailing in those danged storms in g.o.m--- the high winds inside em were a good learning experience.....was looking forward to having more of same after we left cabo --stopped for fuel before crossing sea of cortez-- zero wind less than 1 hour after the 60+ kts just north of us!!
> if you have a teak taff rail-- do NOT prevent your mizzen to it--it WILL break....now i prevent to a hawse .....is strong.


Zee - I'd love to see some pics when you get a chance. You are my hero.


----------



## smackdaddy

zeehag said:


> preventing to lifelines is nutz... this woulda ripped em out, too....was FUN!!! the noise of the teak rail breaking was impressive!


This chick has balls!


----------



## smackdaddy

tdw said:


> Smack,
> We were intending on heading up the coast this weekend but weather intervened. Spent Saturday evening/Sundy at anchor, bucketing down, miserable bloody weather, nothing to do but eat drink nap read. Maybe no BFS but it was not all that hard to take at all.
> A


You know, that's a great point. Even when you're not battling the elements, putting your skills to the test, reaching deep into your soul to drive your will further...you always have the crossword and a nice sherry.


----------



## smackdaddy

C3P0 and TJ,

Thanks.


----------



## smackdaddy

Well, thought I'd tee up the old BFS thread in preparation for what is sure to be my second BFS this year. The Harvest Moon Regatta is a race from Galveston to Port Aransas - about 150 miles - and is one of the biggest off-shore races around with typically over 200 boats racing. I'll be doing the race and the return - so another 300+ offshore miles on the CV!

I just got back in from a great check sail on the boat I'll be crewing on. It's a beautiful Pearson 365 Ketch. Big and heavy, but fun to sail. It was blowing 25+ today on the bay and we had a double reefed main and full 140 genny flying. While I was helming we got our best speed of the day (of course) at 8 knots.

The best thing is our crew includes two young hotties who have an affinity for hard sailing and yoga pants. So it's all good.

Race starts next Thursday. I'll do the write up the following week after I sober up.

This big sailing stuff just doesn't get old!

(PS - I think it's time for me to get some sponsors.)


----------



## St Anna

Need photos Smackman. A friend of ours has a pearson 365. Have fun.


----------



## johnshasteen

*Harvest Moon Regatta*



smackdaddy said:


> Well, thought I'd tee up the old BFS thread in preparation for what is sure to be my second BFS this year. The Harvest Moon Regatta is a race from Galveston to Port Aransas - about 150 miles - and is one of the biggest off-shore races around with typically over 200 boats racing. I'll be doing the race and the return - so another 300+ offshore miles on the CV!
> 
> I just got back in from a great check sail on the boat I'll be crewing on. It's a beautiful Pearson 365 Ketch. Big and heavy, but fun to sail. It was blowing 25+ today on the bay and we had a double reefed main and full 140 genny flying. While I was helming we got our best speed of the day (of course) at 8 knots.
> 
> The best thing is our crew includes two young hotties who have an affinity for hard sailing and yoga pants. So it's all good.
> 
> Race starts next Thursday. I'll do the write up the following week after I sober up.
> 
> This big sailing stuff just doesn't get old!
> 
> (PS - I think it's time for me to get some sponsors.)


Smack, you'll have a great time. We've done the Regatta several times, first time in a friend's Pearson 365 Sloop, the other times in Paloma.


----------



## smackdaddy

johnshasteen said:


> Smack, you'll have a great time. We've done the Regatta several times, first time in a friend's Pearson 365 Sloop, the other times in Paloma.


Yeah, I can't wait, John. Hey, are you going to be around the area that weekend? I'd love to meet you. Let me know.


----------



## johnshasteen

smackdaddy said:


> Yeah, I can't wait, John. Hey, are you going to be around the area that weekend? I'd love to meet you. Let me know.


Not sure yet, we haven't been down to the boat in about a month. We're in Bahia Marina, up the ship chanel from Port Aransas.


----------



## RTB

Go gettem, smack! It was a good race last year. Plenty of wind!


----------



## peoples1234

Go BFS!


----------



## wingNwing

Have fun Smacky!

Hey, I think I finally won my BFS cred! First was our downflooding incident in Sept. (Lesson learned: know where ALL hull penetrations are in your boat, not just seacocks. And note that some which are above water at the dock, may be below water underway or when heeling.) Then, quite possibly the worst conditions I've been in ever; and certainly the worst conditions I've been in on our own boat, were on Day 2 of our trip, right at the mouth of the Potomac. Winds predicted to be 10-15 on a broad reach were 25 and gusting higher forward of the beam in a squall, and the very confused seas where river emptied into Bay. (Lessons learned: NOAA doesn't always know-a! Plan your passage for winds 5 knots stronger, 45 degrees to the head, and for weather to arrive 12 hours sooner, than predicted. Second lesson: no matter how tempting it might be to run gently downwind on genoa only, we would have done far better with a balanced set of smaller sails. As it was, when the squall hit, we couldn't steer, the headsail + waves were throwing the bow around, and all we could do was make for the far shore, not necessarily make for the direction we wanted to go. We know better!) No pix, sorry, we were much too busy hanging on!

Currently in Morehead City, NC, about 1/3 of the way to our warm winter hangout.


----------



## Ajax_MD

Good story, WnW. I agree, I'd always rather have two small sails and a balanced helm than just one sail or the other.


----------



## smackdaddy

wingNwing said:


> Have fun Smacky!
> 
> Hey, I think I finally won my BFS cred! First was our downflooding incident in Sept. (Lesson learned: know where ALL hull penetrations are in your boat, not just seacocks. And note that some which are above water at the dock, may be below water underway or when heeling.) Then, quite possibly the worst conditions I've been in ever; and certainly the worst conditions I've been in on our own boat, were on Day 2 of our trip, right at the mouth of the Potomac. Winds predicted to be 10-15 on a broad reach were 25 and gusting higher forward of the beam in a squall, and the very confused seas where river emptied into Bay. (Lessons learned: NOAA doesn't always know-a! Plan your passage for winds 5 knots stronger, 45 degrees to the head, and for weather to arrive 12 hours sooner, than predicted. Second lesson: no matter how tempting it might be to run gently downwind on genoa only, we would have done far better with a balanced set of smaller sails. As it was, when the squall hit, we couldn't steer, the headsail + waves were throwing the bow around, and all we could do was make for the far shore, not necessarily make for the direction we wanted to go. We know better!) No pix, sorry, we were much too busy hanging on!
> 
> Currently in Morehead City, NC, about 1/3 of the way to our warm winter hangout.












Nicely done WnW!!! You guys made it through safe and sound and brought back good lessons learned. That's what it's all about.

I kind of had the same experience this past weekend helming a Pearson 365 ketch in 20-25 winds. We had a double-reefed main and full 140 jib flying (practicing for a race) - and although we were screaming along at 8 knots, I would have liked to experiment with a bit less jib and more main. I'll do that next time.


----------



## tschmidty

*My BFS (OK pretty small but my first overnight)*

Here is my little BFS. First day out was in solid 15-20 mph winds with the occasional gusts to 30.

So I decided I would head down to Lake Marion in SC this weekend just to sail somewhere different. My local lake, Lake Norman is relatively narrow so the winds can be flukey. Plus I figured I would make a weekend of it and camp out on an island somewhere. Turned into quite the adventure, but I learned a lot about my boat (Newport 16) and gained a few new skills. Plus any trip where you wake up to this view can't be all bad, right?


So here is a view of the google earth track. Navionics is a great little application (Lakes East is what I have), but I have heard the new version is not as good.


There was a lot of wind, white caps on the lake, but overall not too bad. Probably should not have chosen to launch on the lee shore at a place called Stump Hole Landing though! It lived up to its name with a lot of stumps and in fact the whole lake has good stretches of stumps as well as cypress trees popping up. There was one lonely little tree right out in the middle of the lake. Considered changing my plans to come from the north side of the lake which would have made more sense. But I got out, had a great downwind run making over 4 knots with just the genoa out (the roller furler worked well although I need a longer reefing line!).
I made it under 95 and got greedy and tried to hoist the mainsail. Well the new tiller tamer had been working great except that my tiller moves up and down so when I am not holding it it basically falls down and locks the tiller. So when I moved forward and was pulling the main up a good gust of wind came up, pushed the boat out of the wind and caught the sail. When the boat heeled over, I heard the crack of the rudder. The wind was pushing me hard into the shore for a while until I got things situated.
So I got to to learn how to sail for the next 7 miles by playing with sail trim. I was losing light since I got a late start playing with things around the house, so I decided to hit a nice harbor I saw on the charts and just managed to glide up to a great little island and get everything on the shore and my tent set up in the last bit of light. I had a nice little spot and the Newport floated out in about 8 inches of water. Great sandy spot for my tent, sheltered from the wind and I slept like a baby, except at one point when my forearms got tight (from holding the sheets for two hours steering along) and I woke up with my hand asleep.

But again, got a perfect spot to camp and had a great night.


----------



## zz4gta

I know all too well the nasties of the lower potomac.


----------



## tschmidty

Day two started with a beautiful sunrise. I made some coffee with the JetBoil french press and got going. Still no rudder but the wind had shifted a little and lightened up some so it wasn't hard to get out and get going. Mainly steering by my position on the boat occasionally hanging over the side to get it to turn windward. Without a rudder I had a lot of lee helm which was a hassle. After a nice long close hauled reach trying to steer through the stumps to the deeper water on the other side I got into a weird situation where I could not get the boat pointed. I finally rolled up the genoa and that helped balance things out although I did lose some speed. After a couple wasted tacks going nowhere, I got it settled into a nice groove and managed to get a couple good long tacks and then got a nice wind shift headed back to get up to the bridge.


The one long tack from Vance back across the lake looked like this and was the best part of the day. Note the lack of a tiller. I just sat with my back on the cabin occasionally leaning a little left or right to adjust my heading. The engine there became just for show since it wouldn't run after a bit, just started leaking gas. I was guessing that the float in the carb got stuck or some such. I am definitely going back to the trolling motor because it has been nothing but trouble.


I was ghosting my way under the bridge close hauled and just about through the second span when a gust of wind came up and grabbed the front of the boat, smashing the bow. Yay. Got a pretty good bit of damage to a spot that had already been repaired once prior to me, so now I get to repair it again for real. Slightly ironic in that I have a rub rail I am working on that will look nice ad would have been great protection for that but oh well. On the other side of the bridge the winds got flukey which are a real pain to deal with when you are steering by jumping around the boat. I did get a good wind for a while but I started figuring that it was going to be tight making it to the landing by dark and if the wind died I wasn;t going to make it. So I bailed out at a boat ramp with a nice beach next to it. Tied the boat off and got to enjoy a nice 8 mile run back to my car. Well I probably ran about 6 of it and walked 2, took me about an hour and 15 minutes or so. Well I did want to get some exercise this weekend.

All in all, it was quite an adventure. What is it they say, "It's not an adventure until something goes wrong." I was happy that despite all the setbacks the boat did get me back home in one piece and I learned quite a bit about the boat and how to sail it. I'd actually sail Lake Marion again. It was a nice wide lake, the camping was beautiful and there were plenty of spots to camp. The cypress trees are vary nice. I'd launch closer to 95 to avoid the hairy sections and try to generally stick to the south side where the main channel is (the blue line in the google earth pic above) to avoid the hazards.

The rest of my pictures are up on picasaweb at https://picasaweb.google.com/110586701752725030552/LakeMarion

And the blog with a few other bits is here: Gone Ridin


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## smackdaddy

tschmidty said:


> Here is my little BFS. First day out was in solid 15-20 mph winds with the occasional gusts to 30.
> 
> *So I got to to learn how to sail for the next 7 miles by playing with sail trim.*





tschmidty said:


> Day two started with a beautiful sunrise. I made some coffee with the JetBoil french press and got going. Still no rudder but the wind had shifted a little and lightened up some so it wasn't hard to get out and get going. Mainly steering by my position on the boat occasionally hanging over the side to get it to turn windward. Without a rudder I had a lot of lee helm which was a hassle. After a nice long close hauled reach trying to steer through the stumps to the deeper water on the other side I got into a weird situation where I could not get the boat pointed.


Oh yeah...definitely...










Hey t, if you don't mind, also post your GPS tracks and links to your pics in this thread:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/70384-passages-pics-platitudes.html

We're trying to get a collection of tracks, pics and videos for various sails so people without boats can at least see what we see when we're out. And it's fun to see what various parts of the world look like.

Great job dude.


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## wingNwing

smackdaddy said:


> I kind of had the same experience this past weekend helming a Pearson 365 ketch in 20-25 winds. We had a double-reefed main and full 140 jib flying (practicing for a race) - and although we were screaming along at 8 knots, I would have liked to experiment with a bit less jib and more main. I'll do that next time.


Thanx Bubble & Smack. Along with my shiny new BFS cred, is a new "balanced sail plan" cred! And I agree with you Smack, 140 jib with teeny-tiny main would feel screaming ... as long as you don't need to turn into the wind ...


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## peterchech

I have a dinghy capsize story where I could have died of hypothermia induced drowning... does this count?

It was 70 degrees one day in March. I had to get out on the water. I got to the harbor at Liberty State Park, where I often launched my dinghy, and it really blowing, prob 20 knots.

The boat had been in storage all winter, so it took me a while to put the sails on the spars and rig up the boat again. It turns out I really should have taken longer to do this. I tied in my flotation, which consisted of a water resistant dufflebag filled with styrafoam. I donned my surfing wetsuit and launched, wondering if I should even bother with the wetsuit it was so hot, but nevertheless I zipped it up and dealt with the heat.

I had some serious issues with the setup of my rig. I hadn't sailed the boat all winter, and during the summer I rarely if ever sail single handed. So in this blow I had my hands full. The tiller wasn't long enough, so every time I went forward to fix something on the rig, I had to let go and the boat would head into a broad reach. I kept fiddling, and I realized that the halyard wasn't tight enough and the front of the boom was getting caught on the hull sides. I have been out in this kind of weather before, with crew, and in a serious gust I have always just let go the mainsheet (the beauty of an unstayed mast) and been fine. Now the boom was stuck and I couldn't release. The wind caught the scoop in the sail created by the stuck boom and over I went.

The water was COLD, about 40 degrees F. I got dunked, and when I came up felt like I was having a heart attack. COLD SHOCK!!! I coughed, I couldn't catch my breath, I could do nothing but instinctively doggy paddle and grab onto the gunwhale of my submerged boat. It took about 30 seconds to gain my senses, and as the freezing water that entered my wetsuit finally warmed a bit I realized I needed to get the boat upright ASAP. I swam around to grab my bailing bucket, which was tied in. I fiddled with the knot, until I realized my fingers were completely numb from the cold. I fiddled with it for about 30 seconds more before my dull brain realized I have a knife. One cut with the knife (I just sharpened it fortunately) and I was good.

OK, now time to get this boat upright. I unstepped the mast. I put the boat on its side as I had planned to do, and guess what. The flotation bag came loose!!!! It was tied in, but floating about a foot or so off the floor and was useless. My hands were too cold to tie anything (though I tried), so I attempted to stuff the bag under the CB case and get water out of the boat that way. My cold brain messed up again, trying to lift the boat the wrong way relative to the powerful wind, and it was not happening. I had to get out of the water soon, before I got blown out of the harbor and into the Hudson river, and I was going probably 1 knot in that direction just being blown by the wind. I began to realize that I might be in some serious trouble. I contemplated leaving the boat and swimming the 100 yards or so to shore, but fortunately I stayed with the boat. I would have to swim it the 100 yards to shore.

Well I started swimming, first pushing the boat then pulling it. I am 26 years old and in very good shape, but I could barely breath and was struggling to stay afloat myself. In fact, I found myself sinking and fighting harder and harder to keep my head above water. DUH! My dull brain finally clicked and I realized I needed to get my pfd on NOW. I grabbed it, somehow got it unbuckled with my numb fingers, and put it on. I was instantly feeling much better. I breathed easier and could concentrate on pushing the boat rather than staying afloat. Again, my dull brain wasn't thinking about wind, and I swam into the powerful gusts to try and reach the nearest shore. I got nowhere, and was getting exhausted. DUH! I finally changed course and went with the wind to the lee shore, which was rocky and less than ideal but at least within reach. Once I swam with the wind (actually sort of diagonal to it) I made progress and finally made it to shore. I stood up out of the water, and within 30 seconds of getting my torso out of that icy water was warmed up enough to catch my breath and assess the situation.

I was on a rocky shore, standing on razor sharp barnacled rocks. I dragged my boat up out of the water (it kept wanting to run away with the wind) and I finally thought enough to use the wind to help lift the boat sideways and empty out the water.

Done. No more sailing that day! But now what? I had lost my seat and a bottle of water, but everything else had been tied in. The wind was relentless. I put the boat back in the water, and launched with oars alone. I had to row against the hard, gusting wind to get back to the dock/ramp I launched from. There was nowhere else to go, except out into the Hudson river. That is where the wind wanted me to go, and I knew the tide would kick up and pull me out soon too so there was no time to waste. I jumped in and rowed, stowing gear as I could. Without a seat, the already too short oars (6 ft) combined with the already short (for my body) oar sockets made rowing hellish, using more forearms than back. The wind was ferocious, and for a while I didn't think I would make it. I contemplated letting the wind drift me back to where I came from. Then I decided to "man-up", I stopped worrying about making progress and just concentrated on rowing. After a hellish row, fortunately directly into the wind (not much weathercocking as long as I kept it straight) I made it back.

This was over a year ago, and I now keep my pfd on at all times, I'm actually paranoid about it. Oh, and I keep a sharp knife on that pfd, and a whistle... and a waterproof flashlight at night...


----------



## KnottyGurl

The day I went to sea trial my current boat the wind was in the low 20's and the fella I was buying from never sailed in this weather. So I went alone and tested her out, while out the wind was still on the rise so I was able to also test out the roller furl boom (which did not work due to lazy Jacks) and managed a sail change in 6+ foot rollers from the 135 to the working jib.
Soon the wind was really howling and I made my way in on just the working jib and doused main. Come to find out wind was gusting upwards of 50 mph and still rising. Travel lift got my new to me boat out and placed back to cradle. deal was completed, I figured I got her out there and she brought me back in one piece so the match was made..

Later that night 4 boats fell off cradles and winds hit near 90 mph, late May 2011 in Port Dover.
3 days later I was bringing her home, a 9 day rain filled sail from Lake Erie (Port Dover) to East side (Picton) Lake Ontario.
It was filled with lots of wind, more rain and cold water, and being on the great lakes on the 01 June made me pretty much the only boat out there. Coast guard Axillary crews were still on the hard in lake Ontario.
BFS all the way and both boat and myself enjoyed the ride.
I am a firm believer now that the Grampian 26 is a great lake bluewater boat made for heavy weather.


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## smackdaddy

Wow! I go racing for a few days and come back to see some great BFSs! Very nice!

Let's see....



peterchech said:


> I have a dinghy capsize story where I could have died of hypothermia induced drowning... does this count?
> 
> It was 70 degrees one day in March. I had to get out on the water. I got to the harbor at Liberty State Park, where I often launched my dinghy, and it really blowing, prob 20 knots....


Oh yeah!










And...



KnottyGurl said:


> The day I went to sea trial my current boat the wind was in the low 20's and the fella I was buying from never sailed in this weather. So I went alone and tested her out, while out the wind was still on the rise so I was able to also test out the roller furl boom (which did not work due to lazy Jacks) and managed a sail change in 6+ foot rollers from the 135 to the working jib.
> Soon the wind was really howling and I made my way in on just the working jib and doused main. Come to find out wind was gusting upwards of 50 mph and still rising...


Oh hell yeah! Wow!










It's so cool to read others' stories of their big sails. Thanks fellas. And keep them coming!

I'm working on my race write-up - complete with pics. I'll have it soon.


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## smackdaddy

Here's the throwdown for my recent off-shore race: the "2011 Harvest Moon Regatta"...










Hot sailing chicks, killer starts, downwind agonies, oil rig crashes, shrimp boat disasters, Titmouse Tartar, huge freakin' fish flying all over the place, failing electrical systems, free booze, incredible food, hookers, and much more...

2011 HMR Throwdown

I'm am seriously hooked on this off-shore stuff!!!


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## RTB

Hey Steve, nice report and fun to read. I'm glad you lucked out and found a spot on Blame it on Buffett. Nice boat...and a skipper that cooks real food. NICE!

If you haven't seen Morning Light, the Disney movie anout the TransPac, I believe you'd enjoy it.


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## smackdaddy

RTB said:


> Hey Steve, nice report and fun to read. I'm glad you lucked out and found a spot on Blame it on Buffett. Nice boat...and a skipper that cooks real food. NICE!
> 
> If you haven't seen Morning Light, the Disney movie anout the TransPac, I believe you'd enjoy it.


Thanks Ralph. It was a blast. I can't wait to do more.

I've seen Morning Light. It was pretty well done. I wish there was more content of that type out there. I'll see what I can do about that.

So who else had a BFS this season? I need to add another throwdown soon!


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## smackdaddy

You don't have to go far to find a BFS. Just ask CapnBill...



CapnBilll said:


> Some of the blue water debate centers around the assumtion that you will run into worse conditions "out there".
> 
> I can attest that is not neccessarily so. I have run into some serious sh(*& just 10 miles away from land. I sincerely hope it doesn't get worse further out.
> 
> I have rarely gone out past the continental shelf, and have encountered deep stacked seas, high winds, horizontal hailstones the size of pebbles, etc...
> 
> The second assumption is that if it gets bad you can always go back in, that not a safe assumption either. Often in Texas the storms form in a line hugging the coast. If your more than 10 miles out you might as well stay there, because you have to cross the line to get back in, and the size of the breaking waves I have seen at the mouth of the jetties would make any attempt to enter, pure suicide, and docking in high winds is no picnic either even if you did somehow manage to enter the bay.
> 
> SO that coastal cruiser had better be able to take at least a moderate storm on short notice. And best be able to ride out a period of bad weather in open water, or it would never be safe to leave the bay.
> 
> I have left in the morning with a clear day no clouds in sight, a high pressure system and the last cold front passed over, ...suddenly reversed and came back bringing a line of severe thunderstorms along the coast, a few hours later it is pitch dark, just before noon, and huge rolling waves followed by scattered lightening strikes some less than a boat length away, followed by a deluge of rain, and hailstones the size of pebbles hitting my face propelled by 60+ mile an hour winds, the waves are breaking in sheets, deluging the boat, I don't know what will sink the boat first the pouring waves, or the piles of hailstones on deck. Or if it will simply break into pieces as it is repeatedly picked up, tossed, then a sickening drop, crashing into the face of the next wave followed by another wall of water crashing over the boat.
> 
> And that is just 10-20 miles from "safety". a few hours of that, and I seriously thought of moving to Kansas and becoming a farmer.
> 
> Well the boat made it, even though it was only a production coastal cruiser, and I lived through it also, although with a new found heathy respect for the pounding a little thunderstorm can give you only a "stones throw" from land.


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## peterchech

Great writeup Smack! I love that you caught some fish on the way home. 

"It was about this time that we noticed a gaggle of 4-5 seductively dressed, silicone laden, high-heeled ladies starting to work their way through the crowd."

Lol where are the pics of this?


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## smackdaddy

Heh-heh. You know, the typical...










I coulda used those stockings for my mackerel.


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## peterchech

lol I'd eat anything I caught in those stockings...


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## steveg353

Great story Smackman.
The whole derelict, non-illuminated, offshore rig thing gives me the shivers...even more than the blonde in the red top above (I hope she is not someones sister on here). Standpipes sticking out just above (or below) the surface is scary stuff. It is hard to believe companies get away with that. I guess you move forward as in a small aircraft with B.S.T. in mind. That's "Big Sky Theory" or Big Sea Theory in this application.
Any how, thanks for the write-up and pics. We hope to make the H.M.R. as we get our boat and ourselves better prepared in the future.


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## smackdaddy

steveg353 said:


> Great story Smackman.
> The whole derelict, non-illuminated, offshore rig thing gives me the shivers...even more than the blonde in the red top above (I hope she is not someones sister on here). Standpipes sticking out just above (or below) the surface is scary stuff. It is hard to believe companies get away with that. I guess you move forward as in a small aircraft with B.S.T. in mind. That's "Big Sky Theory" or Big Sea Theory in this application.
> Any how, thanks for the write-up and pics. We hope to make the H.M.R. as we get our boat and ourselves better prepared in the future.


Thanks dude. As for the rigs, they definitely made a believer out of me on the whole radar thing. And again, they're worse closer in (10-15 miles) than they are farther out. In any case BST is right on. But the other thing is....you're moving very slowly relative to any vehicle on earth (it is a sailboat after all) - so you just have to be vigilant.

As for doing the HMR...if I can find a ride, anyone can find a ride. Just start poking around a few months before the races and stay with it. Doing it in your own boat will require a great deal of prep and cash. If I recall both the HMR and the RTB are ISAF/ORC Cat 2 races (which makes me an official ORC racer you know, heh-heh) - so the boats have to be fully equipped and ready to rock. The crew thing gets you out there in just about the cheapest way possible.

Like I said, this off-shore race thing is just about the most fun thing I've ever done. You gotta get some!


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## peterchech

steveg353 said:


> It is hard to believe companies get away with that.


Well the problem is, Steve, we have too much job killing regulation in this country. If we just let the private market regulate itself... 

You know offhand of any good beginner accessible offshore races up by me in New Jersey smack? You're becoming a little bit of an inspiration, maybe I'll be a biter and try and crew one this spring...


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## smackdaddy

Pete - there's a really cool guy around here named Tommays. Look him up and send him a pm. He races quite a bit in your general area. He could probably point you in the right direction.


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## imagine2frolic

Nice writing smack! You must be a real kick in the pants? I don't get the racing thing, been there & done that. I do get the ocean thing. It's like being in the arms of Mother Nature. Sometimes she's in a foul mood, and other times she's all lovey dovey.

Your writing makes me wish my batten will get here, so I can go for a sail. BEST WISHES on getting in some more ocean time*........i2f*


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## Capt Len

One always remember their first one, eh ! Here's my BFS.
TALL SHIP THANE'S FIRST VOYAGE

It's a a dark and stormy night. The kind of night where you are glad to be in a snug anchorage, feet before a glowing fireplace, Appleton's in hand, with time enough to reminisce about past adventures. This particular reminiscence goes back to the summer of 1977 when the ketch 'THANE' departed Victoria harbor on her first voyage to Desolation Sound. Five years previously, I'd found a 40 foot modified Spray hull under an apple tree in Saanich. This strongly constructed but unfinished project had been idle for some ten years, but the yellow cedar had weathered it well. I traded my Chevy station wagon and with limited budget and lots of energy built what became my home for the next thirty years. As THANE cast off from Fisherman's Wharf, she was well canvassed with new tan bark sails and well rigged with stout spars and homemade teak blocks. Her anchor gear consisted of one forty pound Forfiord, 4 fathoms of ½ chain and sixty fathoms of ¾ nylon braid. The electrics were a 60/60 flashing sounder, a hand held spotlight and a light in the galley. Oil compass and running lights completed the equipment list. Twenty tons of hopes and dreams towed by a 10ft lap strake dingy with oars past Shoal Point at 6:30 in the morning of July 19. I pulled strongly while Elaine, my partner, took the helm. We soon caught a bit of westerly and worked our way out of the harbour. Two tacks and we're past the breakwater. Ha! Think I, not bad for a gaffer. As long as there is wind we can go anywhere. We cleared Discovery Island in good form and then passed it again going west on the ebbing tide. The third pass was good as the wind picked up. Apart from falling asleep in the sunshine, the only event was finding my fishing line had caught a C.P.R.(Canadaian Pacific Railway) coffee mug by the handle. As the sun set, we drifted into Open Bay on Henry Island and set anchor for the first night away from the dock. At daybreak I rowed out into Haro Straight to catch the westerly, which didn't show. The big drift again but with freighters and tug and barges thrown in. Finally back at Discovery Island the wind materialized and we had the best sail yet. Turn Point at seven knots and on up Boundry Pass only to be becalmed again. I jumped into the dingy to tow THANE to the west end of Java Islets where we anchored in about 10 fathoms, lots of current and a constant roll from big traffic in the Straights.

The next morning we weighed anchor and headed east. Finally at Bedwell Harbor, the wind came up in earnest and allowed us some headway. After an uneventful day of dodging freighters and rowing to avoid Plumper Sound, sunset found us somewhere past Saturna Island in the lower Straights of Georgia. It's hard to say where for sure because of the mist which accompanied the very light southeasterly.

Using the smoke from the compass light gave me an idea of wind direction and a mop held over the side determined if we were making headway. It was a long night, frequently flashing my spotlight on the masthead to alert passing traffic. If nervous tension could be harnessed we would have boxed the compass much more quickly. However, all things pass and by dawn we had a nice 10-15 knot SE, and a fix on Entrance Island light. It was satisfying to allow Thane to steer herself on a quartering breeze and romp across to Gibson's where we rounded up and anchored near the Government dock that afternoon. Both Elaine and I grew up on the Sunshine Coast. I'd gone to school and taught high school at Elphinstone so we spent a few days relaxing and meeting friends before heading out again through the pass in a couple of tacks and into Straights of Georgia. Only a light westerly, so we short tacked up the coast, coming close to shore each time; Gospel Rock, Gower Point, Chaster Creek, Camp Byng , Davis Bay and finally the breeze failed at nightfall and we made our way into Thormanby Island and dropped anchor near Pirate Rock. Not your ideal anchorage to say the least, but we held there until dawn. Into the dingy again at first light to gain some sea room and just in time too. We cleared Bertha Island with a light SE that rapidly built to 20 knots. Thane, self-steering wing and wing, sailed past Thormanby and into Malispina Straight. This was great sailing. THANE showed her SPRAY heritage, running before a good breeze, steady on course with helm centered and untouched.

A fine day: dozing, reading, wandering about on deck, designing and redesigning. Lying on the bowsprit, planning topmast spars and genoas, I noticed we'd picked up a 2-meter long plank across the bobstay fitting. Talk about a bone in her teeth. THANE was doing at least six knots in spite of pushing the plank and still self-steering. After futile prodding with boat hook, we rounded up and cleared the flotsam. Back on course, we ran past Grief Point and West View. By 2 PM we were becalmed at Emond's Beach just north of Sliamon. While I read and drifted in the sun, Elaine rowed ashore to phone her father in Lund and to beg some ice for the gin and tonics. Now resupplied and with a favorable drift we carried on past Dinner Rock to the iron mines just south of Lund . About 7 PM, Jens, Elaine's father, showed up with his tugboat, the OBI and took us alongside. By 8:30PM, we were dockside at Lund Marine. So ended THANE's first voyage as a pure sailor. Lund Marine became our home for six weeks while I installed a 4 cylinder Ford diesel and transformed THANE into an auxiliary or motor sailor depending on one's point of view.

For all the safety and convenience the motor gave us in cruising further north, we gave up a certain pureness and pride of self-reliance that is almost unknown today. Now heading out has as much kick as driving to Costco, but the sailing has never lost its appeal.


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## smackdaddy

imagine2frolic said:


> Nice writing smack! You must be a real kick in the pants? I don't get the racing thing, been there & done that. I do get the ocean thing. It's like being in the arms of Mother Nature. Sometimes she's in a foul mood, and other times she's all lovey dovey.
> 
> Your writing makes me wish my batten will get here, so I can go for a sail. BEST WISHES on getting in some more ocean time*........i2f*


Thanks i2. I know that thus far I've only seen the lovey dovey side of the ocean. And I know that it's only a matter of time before I see her other side.

But I love being out there. No doubt.


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## smackdaddy

Capt Len said:


> One always remember their first one, eh ! Here's my BFS.
> TALL SHIP THANE'S FIRST VOYAGE


Now THAT'S a great story! Thanks Cap!!

Do you have any pics from back in the day?


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## Capt Len

Ok .So I think I've got a handle on photo bucket so her goes with Thane's pictures


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## smackdaddy

Capt Len said:


> Ok .So I think I've got a handle on photo bucket so her goes with Thane's pictures -http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff376/CaptLen/[/IMG-][/QUOTE]
> 
> Cap, your link above just goes to the page with the pics. To link the actual pics here, roll over the pic and click in the IMG Code space to copy that code...then paste it here for each image. You should get this...
> 
> [IMG]http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff376/CaptLen/sl5.jpg


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## peterchech

Wow.. cool...


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## Capt Len




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## Capt Len

Sorry for the multi messages... my minion had trouble sorting it out!


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## Capt Len

Capt Len said:


> Sorry for the multi messages... my minion had trouble sorting it out!


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## smackdaddy

Definitely BFS!!!



afrinus said:


> So after nearly three months of "projecting" I finally got in my first ever sail.
> although the PO offered to take me out to show me the basics, we (my son and I) decided to go and try our hand at this.
> 
> Wow what an awesome experience!
> At first, it was like boooringgg - Wind was supposed to be about 10knts, but it didn't felt anything like it  - then we got out from behind an island blocking the wind. She heeled over and picked up speed quickly.
> OK! this was more like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of fun - a few chicken gibes , a few "oh crap"  moments when she heeled over more than a first-time-ever sailor felt comfortable with, but oh I'm sooo hooked


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## peterchech

I agree. Niiiiiice.

Welcome to the addiction


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## mightyhorton

*Is this Bluewater Sailing, or What?!*

I helped this friend get his boat, named Shanti, a 2007 Catalina 42, from the San Juans to Santa Barbara a year ago September, and then from Puerto Vallarta to the Marquesas last April and May. We had some good times on our voyages. I flew home from Tahiti, he carried on to Tonga, Samoa and bunch of other islands, and then with cyclone season approaching he chose to go back to Hawaii rather to NZ. He left Pago Pago and made it to Hawaii. He's not much of a writer, but what I got from him was pretty compelling so thought I'd share it. He's safely tucked in at Ko Olina marina on Oahu now.

I think this counts as a BFS. He was a complete rooky when we left the San Juans. He pulled into Ko Olina about a week ago. I know some of you would have done it differently, or might want to pick apart something, but, hey, step back and respect what he did. Here's what he sent me:

Mes Amis,
After 24 days from Pago Pago, Amer. Samoa via Penrhyn, Northern Cooks I arrived in Honolulu yesterday - 3,100nm. To Penrhyn beating on the nose with squalls like nothing I ever seen-up to 40 sustained at times-yes we reduced and got knocked around-it seemed like ITCZ corridor moved south to 9* and not a equator. At Penrhyn, Debbie M_______ my crew got off-couldn't take pounding and heeling. Ok with me, so went alone the last 2,000nm to Hono averaging 166nm daily with jenny last 7 days-got up to 11knots with full main and partially reefed jenny ALL on starboard tack the whole way! Learned a lot going thru the swells-needed more speed at times to keep wave from breaking THRU the cockpit and other times slowing down in confused seastate after being tossed around! Never saw another vessel and at 3*N45'' found equatorial countercurrent at 1-2knots going up as far as 8*N45''all on current out of west. Friend D_____ met me at marina with flower leis and champagne-what a voyage-Missed you guys but hey sometimes you gota go solo. In April I head from Kauai to Sitka, Alaska going down inside passage all next summer returning to Brown Island next Sept. after 2 years-hope we can meet somewhere along the way.


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## smackdaddy

mightyhorton said:


> I helped this friend get his boat, named Shanti, a 2007 Catalina 42, from the San Juans to Santa Barbara a year ago September, and then from Puerto Vallarta to the Marquesas last April and May. We had some good times on our voyages. I flew home from Tahiti, he carried on to Tonga, Samoa and bunch of other islands, and then with cyclone season approaching he chose to go back to Hawaii rather to NZ. He left Pago Pago and made it to Hawaii. He's not much of a writer, but what I got from him was pretty compelling so thought I'd share it. He's safely tucked in at Ko Olina marina on Oahu now.
> 
> I think this counts as a BFS. He was a complete rooky when we left the San Juans. He pulled into Ko Olina about a week ago. I know some of you would have done it differently, or might want to pick apart something, but, hey, step back and respect what he did. Here's what he sent me:
> 
> Mes Amis,
> After 24 days from Pago Pago, Amer. Samoa via Penrhyn, Northern Cooks I arrived in Honolulu yesterday - 3,100nm. To Penrhyn beating on the nose with squalls like nothing I ever seen-up to 40 sustained at times-yes we reduced and got knocked around-it seemed like ITCZ corridor moved south to 9* and not a equator. At Penrhyn, Debbie M_______ my crew got off-couldn't take pounding and heeling. Ok with me, so went alone the last 2,000nm to Hono averaging 166nm daily with jenny last 7 days-got up to 11knots with full main and partially reefed jenny ALL on starboard tack the whole way! Learned a lot going thru the swells-needed more speed at times to keep wave from breaking THRU the cockpit and other times slowing down in confused seastate after being tossed around! Never saw another vessel and at 3*N45'' found equatorial countercurrent at 1-2knots going up as far as 8*N45''all on current out of west. Friend D_____ met me at marina with flower leis and champagne-what a voyage-Missed you guys but hey sometimes you gota go solo. In April I head from Kauai to Sitka, Alaska going down inside passage all next summer returning to Brown Island next Sept. after 2 years-hope we can meet somewhere along the way.


Oh hell yes!!! Any pics? I'd love to put that in the Featured Throwdowns on the site!


----------



## smackdaddy

Yo, Horton, could you check with your friend about me adding his story with a couple of the pics to the "Featured Throwdowns" section of the BFS site?

Just have him contact me here or via email: smackdaddy at (the site address in my sig).

I'd love to add it! And I'll send him some free BFS swag for his contribution!


----------



## smackdaddy

Here's another great one - stolen from the Knockdowns thread:



bobdersegler said:


> Hi one and all,
> I'm new here, and have just come accross this thread "Knockdowns", and thought that maybe my experience of an "Eskimo Roll" in the N.Atlantic would fit in.
> Sailing in a 30ft, Murena from Bermuda to the Azores. We had 300 miles to go when we got cought in a cross sea and 9Bft, a very angry, frothing white wave (15 ft ) sounding like an express freight train hit us broadside and the world turned upside down. I was underdeck as it happened, the hinged hatch (stupid design ) opened up, the boards were washed into the boat with an awfull lot of cold, green sea water. " Oh ****, and now."
> Nothing to do but wait and see. After some minutes I heard the freight train heading down on us once again, it hit us with full force and the world was the right way up, only the mast was now pointing in the wrong direction. To cut along story short, we were picked up by a container ship and taken to Canada.
> bobdersegler.To the women of our land and the ships of our sea's, may the latter be well Capt'ned and the first well manned,


And the sig quote - classic.


----------



## GeorgeB

Hey Smack,
Just got back from helping a friend deliver his Leopard 47 from Las Plamas, Gran Canaria to St. Georges, Grenada (specifically St. David’s Bay). Rhumb line course was 2,760NM and we made it in just under 18 days. Not much in the mid-Atlantic but sky and lots of water. Winds were mostly in the 30’s with the occasional gale condition. Had the usual wear and tear on the boat such as chaffed lines, galled shackles and a snatch block that exploded. Blew the fuse in the wind generator when it over sped. Got the boat up to 15.7kts surfing some really big waves and three times averaged over 9kts for my two hour watch period. Not bad for sailing a boat the size of a condo!


----------



## blt2ski

Has the BFS region or whatever been picked yet? or are nominations up? or?!?!?!?!?

Mr Winston is lying down waiting for the suspense of seeing if he won this year!LOL


----------



## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> Hey Smack,
> Just got back from helping a friend deliver his Leopard 47 from Las Plamas, Gran Canaria to St. Georges, Grenada (specifically St. David's Bay). Rhumb line course was 2,760NM and we made it in just under 18 days. Not much in the mid-Atlantic but sky and lots of water. Winds were mostly in the 30's with the occasional gale condition. Had the usual wear and tear on the boat such as chaffed lines, galled shackles and a snatch block that exploded. Blew the fuse in the wind generator when it over sped. Got the boat up to 15.7kts surfing some really big waves and three times averaged over 9kts for my two hour watch period. Not bad for sailing a boat the size of a condo!


Do you realize that I seriously envy your exploits you lucky bastard? 2760 NM! And 16 knots!!!!

How do you like the big multi over a long haul? I've heard the ride is really nice, with far less fatigue than you'd get on a mono.


----------



## smackdaddy

blt2ski said:


> Has the BFS region or whatever been picked yet? or are nominations up? or?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Mr Winston is lying down waiting for the suspense of seeing if he won this year!LOL


Hey bluto! I'll put up the new poll next week. I want to give everyone the rest of the week to submit their BFSes. There have been some good ones for sure.

Last year it was the Gulfies that brought it home (finally). Hopefully the Westies or Supernorthies can finally get some bling. You guys have to be feeling owned (which explains Mr. Winston's malaise).


----------



## GeorgeB

Smack,
The differences between cats and monos are night and day. The Leopard was very big, stable, and comfy. They sail very, very flat so it is less fatiguing than being on your ear like in a mono hull. The hulls were far enough apart that one hull would be on the trade wind wave and the other on the cross wave so there was a fair amount of yawing, slewing and bouncing about. Surfing, the boat also had a pitching motion. Altogether, very stable and things like coffee and drinks could be left on the galley table without much fear – that is until a wave crest (read “haystack”) high-centers under the bridge deck, then it feels like a bomb or depth charge going off under the boat. Real teeth jarring and was worse when going to weather in 30kts plus.

Being a flat sailor, it doesn’t give you those little queues like “keep the boat under the stick” so you steer by wind angle and course heading. Coupled with the skeg like keels and low aspect rudders, and that is where you get all that yawing, slewing and skidding. The tendency was to use the rudder as a trim tab to keep it in the right direction, but that tended to bleed off speed. It was better to make your corrections all at once when the boat was coming off the wave and both bows pitched up. Rudder commands had to be given with authority and one would begin the counter steer almost immediately once you feel the boat start correcting itself and have the counter steer completed way before you are back on your base course. I was then able to carry the boat speed into the second or third wave and continue the surfing fun. Too much correction and the boat would slow down to 6-7kts between surfs. The boat had no bad habits, I think I only had to fight off a round up maybe once or twice. We had a preventer on the main and the boat was also very forgiving when by the lee.

All in all, a very pleasurable experience. The boat would make for a comfortable platform for a cruising family. The main downside is where to put the thing when in harbor. Even with Med-Moor ties in the Med, the boat is too expensive, hence, why we were delivering it back to the Carib. But very, very easy to anchor or moor. So if you were cruising the Carib, Mexico, or Pacific (following the trades), this boat is something to consider.


----------



## smackdaddy

I just had to steal this story (which deservedly has its own thread) because it really needs to be in the BFS Cup contention. Freakin' awesome:



GBurton said:


> I thought some of you might enjoy this article by my friend Lee
> 
> 1000 MILES TO WINDWARD IN MY Westsail 32 "Patience"
> 
> CABO SAN LUCAS TO SAN DIEGO CALIFORNIA
> 
> So it was time to put up or shut-up. I had been contemplating getting my Westsail 32 Patience back to the US from Mexico by sailing her offshore to windward. I had been discussing the passage with others and I mostly received blank stares from them either not knowing the difficulty that is involved in such a passage or the blank stare as in you're crazy man. When talking it over with David King (Westsail 32 superman) last summer in the boatyard at Brookings Harbor Oregon, He rubbed his chin and with a glint in his eye said "it could be done". In fact I knew it had been done by another W32 back in the 70s from reading old issues of "Windbag" a Westsail newsletter from that time period. This is not a new idea as the sailors of the past used this route to work their clipperships up the pacific coast. After careful study of my pilot charts for wind strengths, wind direction and currents, I picked November as the month to make a run at it. This would put hurricanes at a minimum risk and provide the possibility of an early winter "low" to back the wind to the south.
> 
> Patience was stored for the summer at Marina Seca Guaymas Sonora, Mexico. I returned there mid October to get her refitted and ready for the run north. Boatyards are full of "experts". People who "know" about things and are happy to expound their knowledge on you. While working on my boat a guy came by and asked my plans. I told him I was going up the outside of Baja to San Diego. Oh doing the Baja Bash huh? Take plenty of fuel with you. No I said it would be an offshore passage under sail, not a motor bash to windward. Since he "knew" about such things he told me that I wouldn't make it and furthermore my boat could not do it. We Westsailors are used to people that have never even been on a Westsail bad mouthing our boats so this did not bother me it just made me more determined. I have owned Patience for 19 years with two trips to Hawaii and back, two trips to Mexico and numerous trips up and down the pacific coast so I felt a little more knowledgeable about what she could and couldn't do. I went ahead quietly preparing the boat knowing that every detail would have to be right. This would be a difficult passage at best.
> 
> Patience went back in the water on November 10th and I was ready. First I needed to make the passage down the Sea of Cortez to La Paz and from there down to the cape at Cabo San Lucas. We caught a good norther blowing and rode it down to Espiritu Santo island and then into La Paz. While there I had a very nice family style dinner provided by Steve and LuLu Yoder (Westsail 28 Siempre Sabado). Next morning I headed over to the fuel dock at Marina Costa Baja. Decision time. How much fuel to take on? Since I still had another 150 miles to go to the cape with the fickle Sea of Cortez winds to deal with, I filled the main tank which holds 38 gallons and filled two 5 gallon jugs to get me to Cabo. As it turned out I needed the two jugs of fuel to get there. Now still having a full main tank when arriving at Cabo, I just waved and sailed on by headed for Cabo Falso. Filling more jugs there wouldn't amount to a spit in a bucket where I was headed and would just make the boat sail poorly.
> 
> This was it, the moment of truth, where BS stops and reality sets in. Sailing out from behind Cabo Falso the 25 knot northwesterlies laid us over on the beam. Rolled up the jib, put a reef in the main and sheeted in the staysail. Patience stood up and took off. I set the self steering wind vane at 60 degrees to the wind and this would be my course until I went to port tack into San Diego. The staysail would remain up the entire trip while adjusting the main and jib to keep her balanced. I fully expected to loose some miles to the south before I could make any progress to the north. It turned out that I lost about 18 miles to the south. A small transistor radio provided my weather reports offshore with reports from Don Anderson of "summer passage" and also hi seas weather radio. The next day found me in the middle of a freighter freeway. Between 0300 and 0800 four of the behemoths passed close by. Swallowing my pride I started the engine and burned a few gallons to scurry across the shipping lane like a squirrel crossing the highway. Back on course and sailing again I hear on the radio hurricane Kenneth is 500 miles below me with winds at 150 knots headed northwest. Hurricane? November? 150 knots? Holy Crap! Enough incentive for me to get north as soon as possible into cooler waters. My course so far was just north of true west and it would remain there as long as it took to gain some latitude. The difference in longitude between Cabo and San Diego is significant so I wanted to go west out where the wind would veer a little. She stayed hard on the wind with that little staysail pulling like a locomotive engine. For the next week we would battle into it gaining a little here a little there with one days run of 118 miles to windward. Downwind you can easily do 140-150 mile days. Beating into it, a 100 mile day is pretty good. The 10th day out the weather says strong gale forecast for southern California. Great just what I need a gale from the north. At this point I'm at my location to go on port tack- 180 miles southwest of Guadalupe island. We made the first and only tack of the passage to port and a few hours later the gale hits with considerable force. Down to double reefed main and staysail we slogged into it always going north refusing to give up any miles. After two days the seas had built up so Patience was climbing up the faces and slamming down the backside still gaining north. At one point she failed to make the crest before the sea broke and she was slapped off that wave like a surfer and fell down the face to crash with roar and shudder. At this point you really like that your boat has a hull thickness of 1" of solid glass at the waterline. Later I heard on the radio they had winds of 90 miles per hour in southern Calif. Two days of gale force winds and then it went light then died. I had enough diesel to power in to San Diego in about 12 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> Some notes on the passage:
> 
> When I say "we"- I'm referring to the boat and me. The passage was single-handed.
> 
> Total miles sailed from Cabo 1208 nm
> 
> Diesel used 12 gallons
> 
> Total time 12 days 6 hours
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FINAL THOUGHTS: As sailboat owners if we are going to "talk the talk" we should also "walk the walk" by getting our boats to as many places as we can under sail instead of motoring. I would encourage anyone with a sound properly rigged boat to sweep the jugs of fuel off the decks, hoist the sails and bugger off out there.
> 
> WOULD I DO IT AGAIN: Absolutely BUT only in my Westsail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee Perry
> 
> S/V Patience
> 
> Westsail 32 #175
> 
> Brookings / Harbor Oregon


----------



## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> Smack,
> The differences between cats and monos are night and day. The Leopard was very big, stable, and comfy. They sail very, very flat so it is less fatiguing than being on your ear like in a mono hull. The hulls were far enough apart that one hull would be on the trade wind wave and the other on the cross wave so there was a fair amount of yawing, slewing and bouncing about. Surfing, the boat also had a pitching motion. Altogether, very stable and things like coffee and drinks could be left on the galley table without much fear - that is until a wave crest (read "haystack") high-centers under the bridge deck, then it feels like a bomb or depth charge going off under the boat. Real teeth jarring and was worse when going to weather in 30kts plus.
> 
> Being a flat sailor, it doesn't give you those little queues like "keep the boat under the stick" so you steer by wind angle and course heading. Coupled with the skeg like keels and low aspect rudders, and that is where you get all that yawing, slewing and skidding. The tendency was to use the rudder as a trim tab to keep it in the right direction, but that tended to bleed off speed. It was better to make your corrections all at once when the boat was coming off the wave and both bows pitched up. Rudder commands had to be given with authority and one would begin the counter steer almost immediately once you feel the boat start correcting itself and have the counter steer completed way before you are back on your base course. I was then able to carry the boat speed into the second or third wave and continue the surfing fun. Too much correction and the boat would slow down to 6-7kts between surfs. The boat had no bad habits, I think I only had to fight off a round up maybe once or twice. We had a preventer on the main and the boat was also very forgiving when by the lee.
> 
> All in all, a very pleasurable experience. The boat would make for a comfortable platform for a cruising family. The main downside is where to put the thing when in harbor. Even with Med-Moor ties in the Med, the boat is too expensive, hence, why we were delivering it back to the Carib. But very, very easy to anchor or moor. So if you were cruising the Carib, Mexico, or Pacific (following the trades), this boat is something to consider.


Man that sounds fun!

I look forward to sailing a cat one of these days. It seems like they'd be ideal to charter for the family - although I don't think I'd want to own one for the reasons you say.


----------



## GeorgeB

Smack,
One of guys made a pretty nice video of our Atlantic crossing. Perhaps seeing this cat's ocean performance will change your mind about cruising in one of these boats, enjoy.

Atlantic Crossing - Large.mp4 - YouTube


----------



## smackdaddy

Great video George. But, dude, when it comes to playing the conch...you seriously blow. Heh-heh.

Did you guys hit any serious squalls? And how do you typically handle the sail plan for a cat like that. It seems that lighter is typically better.


----------



## smackdaddy

I've said it before...and I'll say it again...I love the Bumfuzzles.

How can you possibly look at this pic...










...see what they're accomplishing...and NOT say "that's what's cruising is supposed to be about" is beyond me. They are the North Star of the next sailing generation.

Go the Fuzzles!

(PS - Does Gill make foulies in a onesie design?)


----------



## chall03

Smack sadly no one yet makes a offshore Approved Onesie.

My mother in law however sewed the below pants, So far tested to 35 knots without any complaint.









Love the Bumfuzzles. Leaving aside any discussion of how they are doing it(and without having a beer with them and chatting about it who am I or any of us to really know) They are doing it, and that continues to inspire us.

There is no idle lying around on our boat however. In such tough economic times it is about time they learn't how to put their crew to work.









2500 nm and I figure it is about time she learn't how to hold a heading.


----------



## smackdaddy

Beautiful Chall. Abso-freakin-lutely.

You're a lucky man.


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> They are the North Star of the next sailing generation.


Well, then somebody had better teach the next generation of Polynesians how to make a Chicago-style deep dish, or the Next Generation of cruisers will be whining on their blogs about how crappy the pizza is in the Marquesas... (grin)


----------



## smackdaddy

JonEisberg said:


> Well, then somebody had better teach the next generation of Polynesians how to make a Chicago-style deep dish, or the Next Generation of cruisers will be whining on their blogs about how crappy the pizza is in the Marquesas... (grin)


Okay - now THAT'S funny. BTW - haven't you ever heard of Polynesian Ham and Pineapple Pizza?


----------



## Don L

smackdaddy said:


> ............... haven't you ever heard of Polynesian Ham and Pineapple Pizza?


You consider that pizza?:laugher

Anyone been there and can inform us if they really eat it, or is it some Calif dreamed up thing?


----------



## aeventyr60

True, quite tasty as well after several months of being pizza less. Now we can make a better one onboard....


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## smackdaddy

I had some spectacularly lousy pizzas when I lived in Mexico (they put freakin' CORN on some of them - WTH?), and some equally bad ones in Fiji.

Ain't nothing wrong with harshing bad pie.


----------



## anthemj24

Not mine, but a good story and would certainly seem to qualify as a BFS



> The link posted by The Mariner to the Cowes Race Week boat dismating was like replaying what happened to me off the Brazilian coast in 2006. It was nighttime and my ship was much bigger (800-feet) and moving a bit faster, but the accident was much the same: A T-bone, my ketch then sliding down the ship's port side, the ship's port anchor catching the forestay/roller furler and carrying it away. But my mast stayed up. Isn't sailing fun?


photos: Remembrance of Things Bashed | Sail Feed
full story: The Adventures of the Vessel Condesa » The Run Over By a Container Ship Story


----------



## Ajax_MD

smackdaddy said:


> I just had to steal this story (which deservedly has its own thread) because it really needs to be in the BFS Cup contention. Freakin' awesome:


I absolutely loved this story, and agree with the author's final sentiments.


----------



## smackdaddy

davidpm said:


> This video was from a few years ago, I was the camera man.


Check out this BFS by davidpm! We rarely get video of dudes throwing down in heavy conditions. This is a great one!


----------



## smackdaddy

Wow! The "Storm Photo" thread is turning out to be a treasure trove of BFS!!!



StormBay said:


> And this is a link to a video of my wife at the helm during her first offshore passage in 40knt winds. We got married and bought our current boat a few months later. coincidence?


A beautiful woman helming a Swan in heavy weather. Hawt!


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - so some really great stormy BFS above. Now to switch gears. Below is a series of 6 videos that, I think, show the very stark reality of cruising (especially singlehanding). It's sure to raise some hackles and fire off some vitriol (which is always fun) - but it's one of the most informative, honest, unadulterated, unglamorous, and real accounts I've seen.

Many of you will be seriously rolling your eyes and getting annoyed in the first three minutes of the first vid...but you should really just buck up and watch all 6 - then feel free to erupt...or sympathize...or whatever...

DrakeParagon and the "NYC to Bermuda Nightmare" in his Westsail 42:































This series kind of covers the gamut of issues faced and lessons-learned. And despite it all, he made it. From that perspective - definitely BFS.

Thoughts?


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## captflood

GREETINGS EARTHLINGS The Gaffer in the photo is the Royal yacht belonging to King GoergeVII Great stuff BFS or what ? And only a anchor winch. Go Safe


----------



## CharlieCobra

Well, he wasn't really ready but he got it done. kudos for that...


----------



## smackdaddy

CharlieCobra said:


> Well, he wasn't really ready but he got it done. kudos for that...


You said it.

Hey, CC, we upheld the annual tradition that started with you, dude! We had a great sail on New Year's Day. Some of the same conditions as our inaugural BFS together (cool, sunny, 20-25 knots, etc.) - but we skipped the jib busting this time. I've now shredded a 110 AND a 150!

Of course, as dirty as this replacement genny is - maybe I should try harder! Heh-heh.

Wish you could have been here dude!

Me and my buddy...









2 of the 3 ladies (my wife is the hot blonde)...




































I love the spray blowing sideways.










Cue the Wagner music...










Hey - get me a pic of you in _your_ BFS Hoodie dude!


----------



## CharlieCobra

Nice. Way to uphold a new tradition. I froze my ass off in that hoodie on that Mariner 31 delivery but don't have a pic in it.


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## smackdaddy

CharlieCobra said:


> Nice. Way to uphold a new tradition. I froze my ass off in that hoodie on that Mariner 31 delivery but don't have a pic in it.


WTH? You're supposed to wear _layers_ knucklehead - not just the hoodie and flip-flops!


----------



## CharlieCobra

I did, just not enough nor were they waterproof...


----------



## smackdaddy

Look at this INSANE three-part BFS from sneuman!! Holy crap!!



sneuman said:


> It looks like it's still online. Mind you, this was for a general audience, so a lot of the sailor details are left out.:
> 
> http://asap.ap.org/stories/510321.s
> http://asap.ap.org/stories/512278.s
> http://asap.ap.org/stories/514506.s














> The only photograph of that moment is the one forever fixed in my brain: Looking forward, I saw the cresting water curl over, burying the cabin and foredeck in a blur of foam.
> 
> My boat, Eroica, rolled a good 90 degrees, pitching John over the side, his safety harness straining to keep him from being washed to certain death. He managed to clamor aboard, we both glanced up at the cabin, and then at each other: "There goes the mast."


sneuman - you really need to snag that and post it here on SN so it doesn't get sucked into some archive. Great story. Great writing.


----------



## smackdaddy

Have you practiced your MOB drill lately?









Global Ocean Race 2011-12 : Home

And do you think you'd never make a stupid move in heavy weather? From the MOB:


> Sam has learnt a valuable lesson: "It was a harsh lesson and one I will never forget," he confirms. "You hear these stories and think, well that's a bit stupid, but that's not going to be me, which is a bit arrogant. It only takes a second for something to turn into a big disaster and I'll be clipping on in future," he adds.
> For 28 year-old Conrad Colman, the rescue is a landmark moment: "My father was killed in an accident on a boat when I was 11 months-old when not wearing the appropriate safety equipment and, of course, that came rushing back," he explains. "When I first tacked the boat back round I made a very conscious promise that I wasn't going to let Sam be alone out there."


Sail big...and stay safe.


----------



## smackdaddy

Another one joins the BFS Hall of Fame (dig that awesome hat, baby!):










James is another one of the coolest/best skippers I've sailed with. We had a blast in last year's "Race To The Border" racing his Pacific Seacraft Crealock 37 "Rhapsody". Now he's doing a circumnavigation with his son...and growing a seriously gnarly beard...while hanging out in Montserrat.

That's about as big as it gets!

Follow him here: http://www.facebook.com/Rhapsody.PSC37


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## peterchech

I posted this video on a thread about home built boats a week ago. It got me thinking that, dam, that day was def a bfs for me (although it doesn't compare to some of the big offshore sails shared here).

fast wa'apa outrigger canoe sailing - YouTube

I built the boat, a 24' open outrigger canoe, with my girlfriends father last winter. Every bit is home made, from rudder to sails. We stored it on the beach at the sandy hook Catamaran club. Every year they hold a 19 mile race from sandy hook, nj to the statue of liberty and back. Most of the boats are small beach cats, and we were the first home built to get into the race. The day started out with little wind. A few lucky racers found an area of wind, and made it to the statue. We got about halfway in all light airs, but after 4 hours we realized there wasn't enough time in the day to finish. So we circumnavigated one of the light houses before heading back. On the way back, the light wind totally died and we began getting pulled out by a 3 knot current into the ocean. Helplessly and motorless, we drifted further and further out as the swells built to 6'. We paddled frantically to avoid being swept into huge channel markers. 6' swells aren't scary unless ur on an open boat with about 9 inches fretboard, hoping the bow doesn't dig in and swamp you, with about 3 hours of sun left and a strong tide pulling you into the open ocean.

We played the winds and current a bit, paddling a little to try and get somewhere with some wind. Some of the other beach cat racers were in trouble too, and followed us as best as they could. Eventually we found some wind, and as the sun got lower in the sky the sea breeze picked up. Soon we were doing 7 knots beating across the bay back to the club, trying not to bury the ama into the choo. That's what we were doing in the video. An exhilarating sail after what seemed like it would be a neverending paddle in the dark. That's sailing at its best.


----------



## smackdaddy

peterchech said:


> I posted this video on a thread about home built boats a week ago. It got me thinking that, dam, that day was def a bfs for me (although it doesn't compare to some of the big offshore sails shared here).


Oh hell yeah!









CHECH THAT IS FREAKIN' AWESOME DUDE!!!!!

Can I add that as a Featured Throwdown on the hallowed BFS Site?


----------



## peterchech

Sure man that'd be great I'm flattered


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## smackdaddy

Now THIS is freakin' cool:


----------



## smackdaddy

peterchech said:


> Sure man that'd be great I'm flattered


Okay - you're in! Check it out and let me know if you see any changes that need to be made...

Featured Throwdown : BFSshop.com


----------



## smackdaddy

Check out this awesome BFS video I ran across over at CA (posted by flyingdutchman):






It's howling and the kid is as cool as ice...or cheese. Either way - this is what BFS is all about.


----------



## peterchech

smackdaddy said:


> Now THIS is freakin' cool:


That is SICK, suit and all awesome video... I wish _I_ had millions of dollars so I could do stupid sh*% like that


----------



## smackdaddy

peterchech said:


> That is SICK, suit and all awesome video... I wish _I_ had millions of dollars so I could do stupid sh*% like that












No doubt. I remember when I posted the still photo of this a while back, no one (not even the salts) could believe that the boat was being sailed at that angle. They thought for sure that it was being pulled over from the mast top - or was some kind of trick photography.

Guess those guys can sail.


----------



## dacap06

smackdaddy said:


> Now THIS is freakin' cool:


I'll bet that isn't a wool suit!


----------



## peterchech

The monohull equivalent to "flying a hull"


----------



## smackdaddy

Let's face it..this Pammenter dude in the VOR is a freakin' rockstar! Missing a tooth and willingly keelhauled. BFS all the way, baby! Volvo Ocean Race 2011-2012 | Fearless Pammenter dangles off CAMPER to remove rope


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## smackdaddy

Here's a nice, juicy BFS. 30+ with gusts to 45...starting at about 2:04...






Now that's one nicely buried rail. But I wouldn't call it a "knockdown".

Here's a question for you experienced guys - shouldn't the third crew be keeping tension on both sheets during the flog/furl so they don't wind up knotted balls? Also - stopper knots anyone? That could have been bad.


----------



## mackconsult

skipper should bear done and then furl, while they are keeping tension on the sheet.. If you have a backstay put the backstay on max will allow the forestay to tighten and furl nicely.


----------



## smackdaddy

mackconsult said:


> skipper should bear done and then furl, while they are keeping tension on the sheet.. If you have a backstay put the backstay on max will allow the forestay to tighten and furl nicely.


That was a bit of nasty flog on that jib. The skip was pretty laid back though.

I assume this is the point (45 knots) you go to storm sails and start running (in open water of course)?


----------



## GeorgeB

Those guys in the PNW sure like thier tall rigs... The thing that I can't figure out is why they were completely powered up. Were they trying to get thier boat to lay down for the camera? They certanly not looking for speed as stalling is really slow.


----------



## MedSailor

GeorgeB said:


> Those guys in the PNW sure like thier tall rigs... The thing that I can't figure out is why they were completely powered up. Were they trying to get thier boat to lay down for the camera? They certanly not looking for speed as stalling is really slow.


Tall rigs up here? Yeah. That's because with all the islands we sail in and around the wind WILL be from EVERY direction in one day. Once I was DDW playing with a used symmetrical spinnaker on my old boat. The wind died, then before I knew it it was from directly ahead. Turns out the wind was funneling around an island and I went from: wind behind, to lee of island, to wind around the other side (ie on my nose). Spent the evening hanging from the rigging disentangling my new "roller furling" spinnaker from my headstay.

The more weatherly the boat the more likely (around here) they won't need the motor. No big, unobstructed bay where the wind predictably comes from one direction daily like clock work. Of course, what do I know, I sail a full keeled ketch up here. 

I agree they're a bit powered up. I would have had the traveler all the way to leward long ago. If they really needed to go to windward I would think a second reef in the main would be the way to go. Can't recall if they had a second reef in the main. I also agree with Smack, that a little tension on the jib sheet while furling would have saved some flogging. That would be harder than it seems though as the furling line would already be hard to bring in, and holding tension on the sheet might allow the sail to fill creating much more tension on the furling line and possibly breaking something as you winch it in. Mainly they just needed to execute the whole thing faster to save the sail from being flogged.

MedSailor


----------



## ScottUK

It appears to me they could have eased the kicker, spilled some wind off the main and then been more upright and would have had an easier time with the furling line.


----------



## SloopJonB

How NOT to enter or leave port!


----------



## SloopJonB

"Skipper, how do we reef the spinnaker?"


----------



## Don L

all the above videos and photos of guys taking their wifes/girl friends out sailing for the first ................ and last time!


----------



## smackdaddy

Don0190 said:


> all the above videos and photos of guys taking their wifes/girl friends out sailing for the first ................ and last time!


Or the ladies from HerSailnet taking out their dudes.


----------



## peterchech

smackdaddy said:


> Or the ladies from HerSailnet taking out their dudes.


Yeah... female drivers lol


----------



## smackdaddy

peterchech said:


> Yeah... female drivers lol


Dude - you're in trouble now. On VDay no less!

Hey, chech, go to the BFS site and set up a customer profile:

Login : BFSshop.com

Then I'll email you directions on how you can order a free item in return for letting us use your Throwdown. It's tradition.


----------



## smackdaddy

Check out these smokin' hot BFS Pit Ninjas! These are 3 real-deal sailing chicks...










...and a new addition to the *BFS Hall of Fame*.

I crewed with the two in the foreground on the Harvest Moon Regatta off-shore race this past fall. Beautiful - and hardcore.

This was taken in the HYC Midwinter Regatta a week ago (I wasn't there). I'll wait 'til it warms up so I can wear my banana hammock without getting frostbite.


----------



## SloopJonB

smackdaddy said:


> Check out these smokin' hot BFS Pit Ninjas! These are 3 real-deal sailing chicks...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and a new addition to the *BFS Hall of Fame*.
> 
> I crewed with the two in the foreground on the Harvest Moon Regatta off-shore race this past fall. Beautiful - and hardcore.
> 
> This was taken in the HYC Midwinter Regatta a week ago (I wasn't there). I'll wait 'til it warms up so I can wear my banana hammock without getting frostbite.


What's up with this Smack - you smuggling female Muslim terrorists in on your boat? At least have a second shot where we can see them! Real deal sailing chicks are altogether too rare to go past unseen!


----------



## smackdaddy

SloopJonB said:


> What's up with this Smack - you smuggling female Muslim terrorists in on your boat? At least have a second shot where we can see them! Real deal sailing chicks are altogether too rare to go past unseen!


Too true, dude.

Here they are in this past off-shore race we did:
*
Harvest Moon Regatta Throwdown*

These chicks can sail.


----------



## smackdaddy

A mayday call in the RNZ race - then they bring it home:

Mayday Call In Round New Zealand Race | Stuff.co.nz

"Sinking faster than they could bail..." Serious stones. Wow.

Here's to the Kiwis!


----------



## blt2ski

Maybe a BFS on the sound tomorrow for the first of three Center SOund Series races, 20-30 knots winds......not bad for puget sound! now for George down in SF Bay........

Yes, we up here like our tall masts for the normal 5-10 maybe 15 knot wind days!

I know a couple with a C420mk II they bought down in SF, sailed it there, brought up here, main and a 110 was plenty of sail area.....up here.........how big a genoa should I go?!?!?! bought a 140 last spring....like it better than the 110!OLOLOL

Marty


----------



## smackdaddy

blt2ski said:


> Maybe a BFS on the sound tomorrow for the first of three Center SOund Series races, 20-30 knots winds......not bad for puget sound! now for George down in SF Bay........
> 
> Yes, we up here like our tall masts for the normal 5-10 maybe 15 knot wind days!
> 
> I know a couple with a C420mk II they bought down in SF, sailed it there, brought up here, main and a 110 was plenty of sail area.....up here.........how big a genoa should I go?!?!?! bought a 140 last spring....like it better than the 110!OLOLOL
> 
> Marty


140 for sure. Duh!

Have fun and take pics if you can! Bring it home brother!


----------



## SloopJonB

smackdaddy said:


> 140 for sure. Duh!
> 
> Have fun and take pics if you can! Bring it home brother!


I've always regarded a 155 as the working jib around here.


----------



## blt2ski

SloopJonB said:


> I've always regarded a 155 as the working jib around here.


Assuming you have that ability, along with being on the lighter wt cloth side of things.......150% agree! Altho I do have a 3oz spin nylon 135 for when you do not see ripples on the water, amazing what the little thing can do in 1-3 knot winds!

Will try to take pics, aboard a Waquiez(sp?) with an 81 or so rating, a bit faster/bigger than my 192 28' boat!

Marty


----------



## blt2ski

now for the BIG Freekin solutation question of the day.......see the BFS thread on SA has reappeared, should I sign in to see the links tuffie and smackie are hulring insults at ea other with.......or ngfw!


----------



## smackdaddy

blt2ski said:


> now for the BIG Freekin solutation question of the day.......see the BFS thread on SA has reappeared, should I sign in to see the links tuffie and smackie are hulring insults at ea other with.......or ngfw!


Cones. Hundreds of cones. Not worth the login.

It's a little game Tuffie and I play in the BFS thread there. The dude has a serious fixation on cones - but it's actually pretty light-hearted.

At first it was his attempt to shut the thread down...like that's ever stopped me. Now it's just tradition.

I don't mind it. BFS threads are all very different on each forum. That's cool with me.


----------



## blt2ski

OK got it!

Went pretty good today, skipper thinks we got a 2nd in division, top 5-10 OA out of 60 some odd boats. Started windy, went to 0, got back up to the 20's down to 0 up, up and into mid 20s to finish. lots of sail changes, wind shift or two or three.......fun day on a Waiquiez centurion 40s. Quick boat for what it is!

Marty


----------



## blt2ski

Well, the OA scoring was nt correct, had us mid pack initially, club re looked at the scores, we came in 2nd in division, and 2nd OA! Not a bad day, dispite a port tack start, went thru all the SB starters just fine.......LOLOL

Marty


----------



## CharlieCobra

smackdaddy said:


> That was a bit of nasty flog on that jib. The skip was pretty laid back though.
> 
> I assume this is the point (45 knots) you go to storm sails and start running (in open water of course)?


No place to run to with San Juan close to port, about two miles away. Ya sure don't wanna try running Cattle Pass in that. Been there in that very same spot with the same winds more than once.


----------



## PaulinVictoria

That's me on the far left, on the cabin top, trying to wrestle the main down whilst we were heeled 50degrees, doing 7knots under jib whilst being whacked by 30knot squall winds. Does that count as a BFS?


----------



## smackdaddy

PaulinVictoria said:


> That's me on the far left, on the cabin top, trying to wrestle the main down whilst we were heeled 50degrees, doing 7knots under jib whilst being whacked by 30knot squall winds. Does that count as a BFS?


Oh hell yeah!









Great pic Paul!!!


----------



## PCP777

smackdaddy said:


> Too true, dude.
> 
> Here they are in this past off-shore race we did:
> *
> Harvest Moon Regatta Throwdown*
> 
> These chicks can sail.


Great read, I've always wanted to do the Harvest Moon. Looks like you guys had an awesome time. Those unlit rigs were scary.


----------



## smackdaddy

PCP777 said:


> Great read, I've always wanted to do the Harvest Moon. Looks like you guys had an awesome time. Those unlit rigs were scary.


Thanks. It was really a fun race. And you're right - those rigs are freaky. I'd say it was scarier on the "Race to the Border" race last summer because we were much more "in them" and the stuff was smaller and less visible. But it's still something you really have to watch.

You really ought to watch the GBCA website for crew requests. You'll be able to find a ride on one of these.


----------



## smackdaddy

A fine BFS from luck66...



luck66 said:


> Before going out on the Columbia River the other day , I checked the weather report and was informed that the wind would be 10 to 20 mph. This is good for meas the river runs East West, so it will be a reach or a beam reach up river. When the wind is South-ish there is little fech, and the wind waves are small, on the section of river I sail. On my way out, the wind was pushing 15 knots, so I reefed the main, which took tim wind increased to 25 knots and clocked e as I was solo sailing, which is what I often do during the week as most people who sail have day jobs. With reefed main and jib at 100% (a partley furled 110 jib) I was sailing up river at a good clip. The wind increased to 25 knots and clockedaround to the South some. All was fine until it gusted to 29 knots and the boat wanted to round up. I let the main out and corrected course to keep the boat running parallel to the shore. The ride up river was a heart pounding fast. Working the main and tiller as each gust came and went , was fun for me and a lot of work. There was onr other boat out on the river, but my Cascade 29 could not close the gap to the Hunter 40. We sailed about 10 miles up river. I was working the main and tiller constantly, even with the main all the way out I was still over powewed; So I furled several more turns on the jib. Now the wind was 29 knots and guesting to 34 knots. For a few minutes snow came with a fearless blast. I looked back down river and spied white caps dancing across the river. Spray was jumping over the bow of my boat, and I was having a real thrill ride. It became time to change tack. Coming about in high wind is a real rush. After getting the boat turned, to go down river, I only had a short time to consider options for taking down sail. I elected to power into the wind, to take down the main. Hove-to would not have worked as the North bank of the river limited my sea room. After arriving home, I searched through my ships log. Going back through several years of entries I have recorded on average three trips a year with like conditions. I love this place


----------



## smackdaddy

Check this juicy BFS out from maui! A killer soundtrack with it as well...blame it on my ADD baby!



mauiboy86 said:


> We were bringing Fate back to Charleston March 3rd from Wrightsville Beach, and had to sail through the gale that produced the Tornado's and deaths on land... for about 5 hours during the middle of the night the winds were gusting up to 45 knots NW, heavy rains with temps in the 40s, we couldn't see the waves but the spray was blowing sideways and the noise was loud... in the morning the winds shifted SW starting out around 20kts and eventually steady 30 with higher gusts right on the nose. Half the crew had zero experience or was sick so I kept sails small and didnt try to push the boat hard but I still didn't get any sleep. The boat handled great with no problems, even after flooding the cockpit a few times during the night when we got overpowered by the strongest gusts. Just wish I had night vision cameras to catch the worst of it.
> 
> Video removed due to commercial content in violation of forum rules. Jeff_H SailNet Moderator


Just saw that Jeff removed the embed. Understandable. But it's a really good vid. Go check it out on YouTube by searching:

"Sailing from Wrightsville Beach NC to Charleston SC Beneteau 49 Sailboat"


----------



## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> Check this juicy BFS out from maui! A killer soundtrack with it as well...blame it on my ADD baby!
> 
> Just saw that Jeff removed the embed. Understandable. But it's a really good vid. Go check it out on YouTube by searching:
> 
> "Sailing from Wrightsville Beach NC to Charleston SC Beneteau 49 Sailboat"


Awesome video! $hit eating grin at 1:07 is priceless. 

MedSalor


----------



## smackdaddy

Swan 48 in some nasty stuff (TS Sean) in last year's NARC:











They were 80 miles from Bermuda, but couldn't make it in and sailed all the way back to Charleston.

Interesting use of the Galerider while hove-to.


----------



## peterchech

Nice vid. Is that a torn to shreds jib I see starting about halfway up the mast?

I never saw the main out with the jib backed, isn't that what it means to heave to?

Why was the storm rider deployed off the rail?


----------



## smackdaddy

peterchech said:


> Nice vid. Is that a torn to shreds jib I see starting about halfway up the mast?
> 
> I never saw the main out with the jib backed, isn't that what it means to heave to?
> 
> Why was the storm rider deployed off the rail?


I found these videos via Drake Paragon's channel where he interviewed the skipper. You should look it up. It's good.

2011 NARC Rally Nightmare, Part 1 - An interview with captain AJ Smith from Swan 48 Bella Luna - YouTube

As to your questions, from what I remember:

1. The headsail unwrapped a bit up top in the wind - then kept pulling out until they had a big bubble at the top catching wind. They thought they were going to lose the rig, as it was a kevlar sail and wouldn't rip to relieve the pressure. It finally let go into what you see in the vid - much to their relief. They then hanked on a storm sail on a baby stay the skipper had insisted the owner install for them. That baby stay saved them and the boat according to the skip.

2. They were hove to with the storm jib. You can see it backed in that shot with the galerider.

3. Drake asked the same question. Apparently the skip rigged it that way because they were surfing _sideways_ down the waves. And he wanted to try to maintain a course toward Bermuda.

Another scary thing the skip mentioned was that they took on about 2000 gallons of water inside the boat (about 18" above the sole) when the speedo transducer was shot out of the thru-hull (blowing out the threads) from the water pressure after coming off a big wave. Basically blew a hole in the boat. They had plugs and were able to stop the leak and pump out, but they lost all electronics, the engine, etc.

These guys did a great job bringing that boat home.


----------



## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> 3. Drake asked the same question. Apparently the skip rigged it that way because they were surfing _sideways_ down the waves. And he wanted to try to maintain a course toward Bermuda.


This technique has been tried (pioneered?) by Morgan's Cloud.
Galerider Drogue Launched Off Bow Stops Wave Strikes While Heaved-to

If you haven't heard of them, spend a while on their website. They're the real thing and they write very even-handed articles and reviews. They're like the Beth and Evans of the high-latitudes North instead of south.

MedSailor


----------



## smackdaddy

The VOR guys are taking a beating in the Southern Ocean. Watch the crew to starboard clip in after hanging vertically for a moment...


----------



## peterchech

I noticed the vor guys rarely clip in, at least in all th videos I've seen. Overconfidence? Or on a competitive racing boat like these boys, maybe clipping in gets in the way except in the most extreme conditions? Either way, seems to me the most preventable way to die is by simply not clipping in...


----------



## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> The VOR guys are taking a beating in the Southern Ocean. Watch the crew to starboard clip in after hanging vertically for a moment...


You know it's going to hurt when the helmsman _completely lets go_ of the wheel and dives to the deck in anticipation of the wave strike.  Watch the helmsman on the first wave strike, looks like he tries to assume a flying version of the "duck and cover" position.

After he lets go of the wheel, he looses his grip on whatever he grabbed (off screen) to starboard, and starts sliding down the deck to leward. As he's sliding down the deck he hooks the wheel with his arm to keep him from sliding all the way down and possibly overboard.

I'd venture to guess that there might be a puddle or two of slightly warmer water in that cockpit after that wave. 

MedSailor


----------



## smackdaddy

Actually, if you look closely, the helmsman is held by his tether...not his grip on the wheel (look at 0:11). They look to all be wearing harnesses at least...and I bet they are tethered in.

It does show you how quickly and easily you can go over, though, eh?

Imagine what it was like down below (no warning) - especially for the dudes in the starboard bunks!!!

I think that was Iker poking his head out of the companion-way afterward yelling "Esta bien?"

(Man, I can't believe this thread has almost 200K views. That's freakin' cool.)


----------



## peterchech

smackdaddy said:


> Imagine what it was like down below (no warning) - especially for the dudes in the starboard bunks!!!


haha no kidding, that carbon pops and bangs like crazy on a _normal_ day, I can only imagine that it's like trying to sleep inside one of system of a down's drums during a concert


----------



## peterchech

smackdaddy said:


> (Man, I can't believe this thread has almost 200K views. That's freakin' cool.)


Smack man, you keep things interesting and positive, no surprise here on my part!


----------



## smackdaddy

Abu Dhabi comes within 5 meters or so of making their hull repair superfluous (about 1:40):






So those mythical containers are out there! Wow.


----------



## TQA

56 days Cape Town to Hobart down in the Southern ocean. Single handed on a 38 footer.

Winds were often in the 50 to 60 knot range. 

Now that is what I call a BFS.

Jeanne Socrates is 69 and some sailor.


----------



## peterchech

smackdaddy said:


> Abu Dhabi comes within 5 meters or so of making their hull repair superfluous (about 1:40):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So those mythical containers are out there! Wow.


Crazy...

I'm not sure how much good the crash compartment will do if (when?) one of these sleds slams into a container going 25 knots under kite...


----------



## smackdaddy

TQA said:


> 56 days Cape Town to Hobart down in the Southern ocean. Single handed on a 38 footer.
> 
> Winds were often in the 50 to 60 knot range.
> 
> Now that is what I call a BFS.
> 
> Jeanne Socrates is 69 and some sailor.


NO FREAKIN' DOUBT!










I've been lucky enough to correspond with her a few times. She is absolutely the REAL DEAL, and a serious inspiration.

Go Jeanne!!!!


----------



## chall03

I know 69 year olds who won't walk to the bus stop anymore. She has already done a circumnavigation( short by 60 miles she lost her boat on the beach north of Acapulco) yet she is on the way around again...
Damn I would give her another 10 BFS stamps if I had em'. 
She eats BFS for breakfast


----------



## smackdaddy

Well, I've got a very busy BFSchedule coming up for April and May! I've been invited to crew a couple of offshore races out of Galveston - then I'll be going to Miami for the VOR stopover and in-port race.

The first race is a 60-mile out-and-back called the Heald Bank Offshore Regatta in a couple of weeks. The second is a 100 mile round-trip between Galveston and Freeport called the HYC Offshore Regatta. Sailing with Jim and his crew from this last fall's Harvest Moon Regatta.

Should be some fun racing...and more valuable offshore experience.

Then it's off to Miami for the VOR. Stay tuned...I'll bring back some BFStories!


----------



## Ajax_MD

You sure do walk the walk, Smack. Props to you.


----------



## St Anna

smackdaddy said:


> Well, I've got a very busy BFSchedule coming up for April and May! I've been invited to crew a couple of offshore races out of Galveston - then I'll be going to Miami for the VOR stopover and in-port race.
> 
> The first race is a 60-mile out-and-back called the Heald Bank Offshore Regatta in a couple of weeks. The second is a 100 mile round-trip between Galveston and Freeport called the HYC Offshore Regatta. Sailing with Jim and his crew from this last fall's Harvest Moon Regatta.
> 
> Should be some fun racing...and more valuable offshore experience.
> 
> Then it's off to Miami for the VOR. Stay tuned...I'll bring back some BFStories!


Good stuff. You've done heaps, now - Hope you dont have a scary BFS, just enjoy.


----------



## smackdaddy

Heading out Thursday for another ocean race. It's relatively short - 100 miles round trip - and skirts the coast. It will be fun/scary dodging the unlit rigs again.

Weather looks perfect right now (10-15 knots with 2'-4' seas). 

And, after the last couple of tragic events we've read about, I will work extra hard to be as safe and alert as I possibly can.

I'll report back soon!


----------



## peterchech

Go for it Smack! Clip in and keep an eye out for freighters, and post a pic with some BFS gear! (I'll get one up soon myself)


----------



## St Anna

have fun - and win


----------



## smackdaddy

Well, the race was really fun. And we won, and took third.

It was actually broken into two races over two days...from Galveston to Freeport, then the return the next day.

The first leg was a full-fleet race with a staggered start based on PHRF. We were second across the line and had a bit of a loose beat all the way to Freeport. We rolled the boat in front of us within 5 miles, doing 7+ knots in 15-20knot winds - and were out in front the rest of the day. We kept first overall until the last 5 miles when the wind started dying to 8-10 and clocking around to head us, killing our speed.

Being a Pearson 365 Ketch - she's a pig in light air. It was excruciating being so close yet so slow. So, we were passed by 2 Beneteau 40s who had a better line in the last couple of miles. But 3rd overall wasn't bad sailing considering there were several J-Boats and a MacGregor 65 in the fleet.

The race back was broken into 3 classes, PHRF-Spin, PHRF-Non-Spin and Pursuit (for us slow boats). We easily won our class (by almost an hour) and were only passed by the spin fleet. No other non-spin boats caught us.

The winds were between 15-22 knots the whole way back, with 4-6 seas. Just perfect. We were on a beam reach holding 6+ knots the whole way. Steering was pretty tiring with the rolly seas but it was a freakin' blast! Write-up and pics coming soon.

I like this whole winning ocean races thing.

(Please direct all sponsorship inquiries to my agent.)


----------



## GeorgeB

Congratulations on the win, Smack. Glad to hear that you guys didn’t run into anything and that you guys finished up on top of the heap! Is there a website for the race? After a three year hiatus, the ol’ Cal 40 came out of retirement and we did the Vallejo-YRA season opener last weekend where we finished 1st in Saturday’s downwind race. And missed out on first by only 3 seconds on the uphill return leg on Sunday. We race PHRF 04 (boats between 102 and 117 PHRF). You got to get that Pearson owner to man-up and buy a kite. Out of the 250+ boats that did Vallejo, there were less than a dozen in the non-spin division.


----------



## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> Congratulations on the win, Smack. Glad to hear that you guys didn't run into anything and that you guys finished up on top of the heap! Is there a website for the race? After a three year hiatus, the ol' Cal 40 came out of retirement and we did the Vallejo-YRA season opener last weekend where we finished 1st in Saturday's downwind race. And missed out on first by only 3 seconds on the uphill return leg on Sunday. We race PHRF 04 (boats between 102 and 117 PHRF). You got to get that Pearson owner to man-up and buy a kite. Out of the 250+ boats that did Vallejo, there were less than a dozen in the non-spin division.


Thanks dude! And congrats on your podiums. I bet that Cal 40 is fun.

Yes...here's a link to the site:

2012 HYC Offshore Regatta - Series Standing

We were on "Blame it on Buffet" in the pursuit class. There were actually 3 boats in our class, but only two are listed. I don't know why the 3rd dropped. The second-place boat is a Caliber 40.

Also, they don't have the first leg results (where we took third) - just the return results (where we took first). Here's a quick pic of the skip with the 3rd place plaque for the first leg:










Look at our corrected time versus the fleet! I'd say we sailed the hell out of that Pearson - kite or no. Even kept up with this monster:










Thanks for all the encouragement on this big sailing and racing stuff George (and others). It's absolutely amazing to be doing this.

I'm convinced that off-shore racing would do ALL boat owners good. It doesn't have to be competitive - but it's ALWAYS fun...ALWAYS educational...and ALWAYS...










(PS - I bet we'll start flying a kite soon now that the skip has the taste of trophy in his mouth.)


----------



## smackdaddy

This trailer has been rated PG-13 by the Gnarly Sailor Board of America...


----------



## SVAuspicious

Mid-boom sheeting. Chart plotter at the helm instead of under the dodger. NO DODGER. We won't even talk about racing with a bimini up.

Fail.


----------



## smackdaddy

SVAuspicious said:


> Mid-boom sheeting. Chart plotter at the helm instead of under the dodger. NO DODGER. We won't even talk about racing with a bimini up.
> 
> *Win.*


Heh-heh. Fixed it for you.

Maybe you missed the part where we actually took FIRST IN CLASS, baby!

AND we had the _second fastest corrected time for the entire fleet_ which included some very fast race boats...with spins (see linky above for results).

Look, don't blame me for being awesome and making a freakin' full-keeled cruising ketch run like a scalded dog. It's just what I do.


----------



## GeorgeB

Smack, fun trailer, can’t wait for the movie. Like to see more of the Pearson action. I saw on the chart plotter that you were running at 6.7 kts. Not bad. What was the crew size, three or four? Being in the “Pursuit” class, did that mean you started early based on your PHRF number? Or does this have a different meaning in the Gulf. Nice to note that everybody (including the big Mac) sails with a bimini. We are even getting one when we head down to Mexico in a couple of years. Again, congrats on a race well sailed.


----------



## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> Smack, fun trailer, can't wait for the movie. Like to see more of the Pearson action. I saw on the chart plotter that you were running at 6.7 kts. Not bad. What was the crew size, three or four? Being in the "Pursuit" class, did that mean you started early based on your PHRF number? Or does this have a different meaning in the Gulf. Nice to note that everybody (including the big Mac) sails with a bimini. We are even getting one when we head down to Mexico in a couple of years. Again, congrats on a race well sailed.


We hit 7.3 at the start, with 18-22 knots of wind (perfect conditions). I think that was our top speed. Things lightened a bit during the day, but we maintained 6+ for most of the race.

We had a crew of 3 - but Kat is a bit of newb and was along to learn (although she was very enthusiastic and a hell of a lot of fun). So the steering, trimming, grinding, bow, etc. was left to Jim and myself.

You're right about the Pursuit class. We started early based on PHRF. What was great though was that only the spin boats caught us. As long as we've got 15+ knots of wind that Pearson will really move. But, man, she's a 20,000lb pig in light air.

And I'm with you on the bimini. I actually prefer this kind of "fast cruising" to the hardcore racing. I just like getting out there and sailing - seeing how much we can get out of the boat - but still having great food, comfy seats, some shade, very little screaming, and lots of fun.

Thanks again.


----------



## BreakAwayFL

Big seas and Hugh winds today!

Heading out into 20kt winds and 5-7' seas. This is big for me!!

Double reefing and eating light.

Wish me luck! I'll report back later.


----------



## smackdaddy

BreakAwayFL said:


> Big seas and Hugh winds today!
> 
> Heading out into 20kt winds and 5-7' seas. This is big for me!!
> 
> Double reefing and eating light.
> 
> Wish me luck! I'll report back later.


Sail big, stay safe, and have fun Break. And take a couple of pics if you can!


----------



## BreakAwayFL

Forgot the camera on shore, but what a magnificent day! Seas were light at 2-4 and the wind was blowing at around 18. The sails were straining as I sailed under perhaps a bit too much sail (single reef only with the full 130 out in front).

The sea was frothing along the sides as Serenity tore through the water like a bat out of hell. I've never seen her go so fast before.

Definitely not how I would prefer to sail all the time, but this was definitely awesome!


----------



## smackdaddy

BreakAwayFL said:


> Forgot the camera on shore, but what a magnificent day! Seas were light at 2-4 and the wind was blowing at around 18. The sails were straining as I sailed under perhaps a bit too much sail (single reef only with the full 130 out in front).
> 
> The sea was frothing along the sides as Serenity tore through the water like a bat out of hell. I've never seen her go so fast before.
> 
> Definitely not how I would prefer to sail all the time, but this was definitely awesome!


Congrats break. When you use words like "magnificent", "bat out of hell", "definitely awesome" - you know you've just BFSed.


----------



## MedSailor

BreakAwayFL said:


> Forgot the camera on shore, but what a magnificent day! Seas were light at 2-4 and the wind was blowing at around 18. The sails were straining as *I sailed under perhaps a bit too much sail* (single reef only with the full 130 out in front).
> 
> The sea was frothing along the sides as Serenity tore through the water like a bat out of hell. I've never seen her go so fast before.
> 
> Definitely not how I would prefer to sail all the time, but this was definitely awesome!


BFS certification questionnaire:

Did anyone die? 
Anyone go go overboard? 
Did you break anything that you can't afford to replace? 
After the sail do you have a distant look in your eye and a $hit-eating grin on your face?

If you answered:
No.
No.
No.
and Yes

Then you did NOT have too much sail up, and you DID have a BFS!

Now go do it again, before the feeling wears off! 

MedSailor


----------



## BreakAwayFL

no
no
no
YES!!!

I'm out again this weekend!


----------



## smackdaddy

MedSailor said:


> BFS certification questionnaire:
> 
> Did anyone die?
> Anyone go go overboard?
> Did you break anything that you can't afford to replace?
> After the sail do you have a distant look in your eye and a $hit-eating grin on your face?
> 
> If you answered:
> No.
> No.
> No.
> and Yes
> 
> Then you did NOT have too much sail up, and you DID have a BFS!
> 
> Now go do it again, before the feeling wears off!
> 
> MedSailor


Bingo.


----------



## smackdaddy

Sailing a Hunter 25 170 miles on a rudder made from a 2X12 from Home Depot? Why the hell not?

Here's a crazy cool, Hall-of-Fame-Worthy BFS by dub, nc and scott...

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...elated/87530-shoestring-hunter-adventure.html


----------



## Cherp

Round here (Tasmania) as I've mentioned before, big freakin' winds are fairly common. So big freakin' sails tend to be fairly dangerous. The heaviest weather I've been in involved a storm jib and huge seas. Although preferably, a triple reefed main is my weapon of choice for these conditions, with no headsail. Been way out in the deep blue (actually it's more grey-green) southern ocean in a small boat in respectable winds and even more respectable seas. I don't like it. I prefer to get along in 15-25k with maybe a single reef and a number three. Fast and comfortable. Forty years of experience has taught me how to handle heavy weather. But I still view it as something you get caught in, rather than something you sail into deliberately. I like to slip along nicely, rather than having the bejesus punched out of me and freezing cold at the same time. Sometimes while heavy weather sailing, I've asked myself why the @@@###!! I'm doing this. But there you go, I've always gone out again.


----------



## smackdaddy

Cherp said:


> Round here (Tasmania) as I've mentioned before, big freakin' winds are fairly common. So big freakin' sails tend to be fairly dangerous. The heaviest weather I've been in involved a storm jib and huge seas. Although preferably, a triple reefed main is my weapon of choice for these conditions, with no headsail. Been way out in the deep blue (actually it's more grey-green) southern ocean in a small boat in respectable winds and even more respectable seas. I don't like it. I prefer to get along in 15-25k with maybe a single reef and a number three. Fast and comfortable. Forty years of experience has taught me how to handle heavy weather. But I still view it as something you get caught in, rather than something you sail into deliberately. I like to slip along nicely, rather than having the bejesus punched out of me and freezing cold at the same time. Sometimes while heavy weather sailing, I've asked myself why the @@@###!! I'm doing this. But there you go, I've always gone out again.


Cherp, I think you nailed it. There is a not-so-fine line between having a blast sailing in big conditions and working too hard or struggling in bad conditions. I have no clue what the Southern Ocean is like to sail. I can say that after following the VOR and Vendee so closely - it is a very sobering place. And you freakin' live there!!!!

There are lots of incredible storm stories in this thread. And, as everyone knows, those are the best sailing yarns around. But your're right, no one wants to go out looking for a serious storm...well except the VOR guys who actually do exactly that and sail right into them. Go figure.

I have a huge respect for your 40 years sailing around Hobart. That's real deal sailing. And I can totally understand how you grow much more wise after enduring some nasty weather over those years. So your perspective means a lot.

But that's the strange thing about BFS isn't it?



Cherp said:


> Sometimes while heavy weather sailing, I've asked myself why the @@@###!! I'm doing this. But there you go, I've always gone out again.


I'd love to see some pics of you sailing in those waters. It must be an incredible place. Hopefully I can sail down there one day. My dream is to do the Sydney-Hobart. Gotta make that happen somehow!


----------



## smackdaddy

Just promoted *The Shoestring Hunter Posse* to the coveted "Featured Throwdown" on the site:

Featured Throwdown : BFSshop.com

Thanks for the great adventure Andy, Scott and Jesse! That's what BFS is all about.


----------



## Agri

My first BFS.

After a successful night of nerdowelling in Victoria, I procured a ride back to my boat anchored in Tod Inlet on Van. Island for my bike and I. Was quite happy and a little shocked to find the _Folly_ almost exactly where I left her (It was the first time I've ever anchored overnight, as well as leaving her unattended at anchor. The night in town had definitely been with the risk). After spending the morning layzing around on the hook recuperating, I decided to motor over to Blue's Bayou Cafe for a late brunch before heading back to my mooring in Cowichan Bay, 15nm away.

Heading down to the dock after a very delicious meal, I was very heartened to feel the breeze picking up out of the west, it would be a nice beam reach all the way home. In the distance I could see several sailboats out on Brentwood Bay but only one had a sail up, a 50 foot ketch flying a single jib. With my five months of sailing experice I mentally mocked these sailors for not taking advantage of the sunny skies and stiff breeze. Casting off I motored past all the moored boats thinking to myself that the wind felt a little stronger then normal. I reasoned that it must just be the apparent wind because I was motoring, to be on the safe side I decided to start out with just my genoa. Pointing my bow into the wind I quickly lashed the tiller, hopped on deck, raised the foresail, hopped back in the cockpit, and changed course to north, promptly finding myself standing on the sides of the starboard seats hanging on to a port side stanchion with one hand and the tiller with the other watching the water zoom by just below my feet as my _(pFolly_ heeled over to 35+ degrees. I now realized why no one else was sailing, the winds were significantly stronger then the 10 to 15 knots I was used to.
After several tense moments I realized I wasn't going to capsize, my book was right Cal 25s are a forgiving boat. Not sure what to do I started the motor as the wind blew me back and forth between a port and starboard tack. The best course of action seemed to be to drop the sail so next time I was on the starboard tack with the sail backwinding I tied off the tiller , went foreward and wrestled down the genoa.

With the sail down and stowed I settled in for a long noisy motor home, my engine being a 25hp 2stroke. After about a half hour of motoring my heart started to calm down, the adrenaline slacked off and my eyes returned to their normal size. under barepoles I was still heeled over 10 to 15 degrees. Realizing that if I want to sail around the Pacific I was going to have to learn how to handle these kind of conditions, so I decided to raise my normal jib. Pointing the bow into the wind I banked on the foresail as fast as possible, put myself back on a beam reach and felt my heart start racing again as I watched the gauge go back to 20 degrees of heel. Each gust pushed to 25 making me grip the tiller that much harder. After a while I came to the conclusion that despite my book saying that you should try to keep your boat under 15 degrees of heel 25 wasn't going to capsize her and I was able to sit back and enjoy the very exhilerating ride.

On getting back to my mooring I found my radio turned it on and found out that winds were 25-30 knots gusting to 40.

That's my first BFS. I admit that there were some errors in judgment made by me, but I survived, the boat survived, I learned some stuff and consider myself a better sailor for it.


----------



## smackdaddy

Oh hell yeah!!










Nice go Agri! Any sail that starts off with "nerdowelling" has got BFS written all over it!

I love your attitude.


----------



## harryparker59

Bfs is fine until you break equipment and break bones because you went out in it on purpose instead of caught in it ,,,, O maybe 500 miles offshore where you can't run and can't hide. I've been sailing for 55 years and think it might be the greatest pastime humans are allowed. If you ever think about taking a reef,it is probably too late for people with little experience. Heavy weather sailing can be quite exciting if you have the boat, equipment and mostly the experience and skills for it. Otherwise you would be well advised to stay with the "beer can regatta" Forget setting a spinnaker in 50 knots of breeze, let me know when you have had a successful take down in 60 knots.


----------



## smackdaddy

harryparker59 said:


> Bfs is fine until you break equipment and break bones because you went out in it on purpose instead of caught in it ,,,, O maybe 500 miles offshore where you can't run and can't hide. I've been sailing for 55 years and think it might be the greatest pastime humans are allowed. If you ever think about taking a reef,it is probably too late for people with little experience. Heavy weather sailing can be quite exciting if you have the boat, equipment and mostly the experience and skills for it. Otherwise you would be well advised to stay with the "beer can regatta" Forget setting a spinnaker in 50 knots of breeze, let me know when you have had a successful take down in 60 knots.


Yeah - not everyone gets it.


----------



## smackdaddy

Holy crap! The Pacific Seacraft dudes are ripping it!



bobdugan said:


> I took Emerald out in winds gusting to 30-35 knots apparent last spring to shake her down and find out what a PSC34 could do... it was a lot of fun. The winds were out of the west and up here in New England that means lots of wind, but no waves. Here's a link to the trailer that my crew made after the sail:


http://www.sailnet.com/forums/pacific-seacraft/89186-pushing-her-hard.html#post893281


----------



## tdw

> lots of wind, but no waves


Now does it really get better than that ?


----------



## smackdaddy

Although whoever is driving this boat is absolutely insane...I've love this shot:


----------



## St Anna

I can answer that in a pm smacker. I know the fellow rather well and actually helped him tie up 2 days after the crossing of the Wide Bay Bar.

Incidently, he said the trip was 'uneventful!'


----------



## smackdaddy

St Anna said:


> I can answer that in a pm smacker. I know the fellow rather well and actually helped him tie up 2 days after the crossing of the Wide Bay Bar.
> 
> Incidently, he said the trip was 'uneventful!'


I got your PM. Wow.

I would like to amend my post above. The driver isn't insane. He just has balls the size of Tasmania.


----------



## WDS123

51 knots microburst single handing in a Schock Harbor 25 !

Here is the customer email:

_The microburst on June 24th was related to a severe weather system which produced heavy rain and hail. It ruined more than $100,000,000 of crops in the sector south of the lake. I was lucky, no rain, hail or lightning. If the midst of it all, I am happy not to have been the only boat with a mast standing in a severe T-Storm!

The wind hit with no warning. To the West the horizon was grey but nothing nasty looking. Sailing close hauled in 10-12 Kts when kaboom.

Knocked flat as you'd imagine. Uncleated the sails - jib flogged like mad. Beam to the wind tried to reef the jib, outhaul snapped. Reefed but with nothing to secure it, the flogging continued.* Funny thing was that before the blast hit, I could see sails around the lake. Immediately after, I was the only one!*

Still had the full main, could not contemplate trying to reef. An autopilot would have been very useful, but letting go of the tiller was not an option.
With no jib, weather helm even with the main sheeted out was pronounced to say the least. Used the engine to help turn the boat and put the wind almost dead astern. Then began the sleigh ride.

WInd dropped to 35-40 Kts but was sustained. Wild surfing and two hands on the tiller fighting weather helm.

I swore I was bending the tiller. I have never been this fast in a keel-boat in my life. I managed 13 Kts surfing in my Jeanneau 45.3 a few years back but on a 25 footer... wow. While the ride was thrilling, I was worried about the rudder and the mast. Full main with that much wind, well you can imagine the rest. After the fact, I wish someone had a video, I'd love to see what my boat looked like surfing at that speed.

*It looked and felt like most of the hull was out of the water but fairly level fore and aft. In spite of the waves (they built instantly, the lake is shallow, average depth only about
13 feet), I was leaving a wake like a power boat.*

My compliments, you build a very strong boat! Likewise to your sailmakers - The main took the stress without damage.

I felt bad not being able to help overturned and or dismasted boats as I flew by, but stopping was not an option. The radio was crackling with distress calls and I was happy to see various police and CG rescue boats headed for the disabled craft.

I entered the harbor of the yacht club leaving a heck of a wake but further in was somewhat sheltered and I was able to nose up to a dock into the wind and with some help from folks ashore drop my mainsail.

Final tally, a busted outhaul, a hole in the jib and the clew torn and mangled. Nothing much considering the circumstances.

Best,

Bob_

Not bad for a small daysailer


----------



## smackdaddy

WDS123 said:


> Not bad for a small daysailer


Yeah, sounds like he's pretty good. I'm always amazed at the courage and resourcefulness of midgets....ahm, sorry....little people.

_(Note: The above is a joke. You build a bad-ass boat WD.)_


----------



## jackdale

*Home from Maui*

Got home yesterday.

I should have posted this link earlier for those who might want to track me down.

Vic Maui 2012 Return - Powered by Yellowbrick Tracking.

We had a Yellow Brick transponder abroad Turicum which tracked us on the way back. That provided some reassurance to the folks back home.

The web site allows you to select individual vessels, zoom in, animate, etc..

On August 7 at 39N 150W, there is a course deviation as we met a container ship to conduct a medical evacuation of a crew member. I have a lot of empathy for folks like Doug Sabbag. Docking next to a 900 foot ship is scary.

As I get photos and videos from crew members I will post them.

Jack


----------



## smackdaddy

Jack...you, sir, are my hero.


----------



## jackdale

The track


----------



## smackdaddy

I just watched your track. What was the reason for the tack at roughly midway? It looked like you guys got some favorable winds after that point. So whatever you did...it worked! (Unless it was wind against waves...)


----------



## jackdale

smackdaddy said:


> I just watched your track. What was the reason for the tack at roughly midway? It looked like you guys got some favorable winds after that point. So whatever you did...it worked! (Unless it was wind against waves...)


That was when we rendezvoused with the container ship Navarino to effect an medical evacuation of the one of the crew. Video to follow. In the process we broke the starboard sidelight, deflated two fenders and scratched the rub rail. Little no no damage to Navarino. 

They took the crew member to LA from whence he flew home. He has surgery scheduled for next month.

The winds were generally great but we did have to motor in light winds.


----------



## captbillc

i had an experience with a microburst on lake superior several years ago. when it hit upwind from us i could see the tops blown off the waves. i had the full main & genny up. i headed down wind as my son & grandson struggled to get the genny down . i was too busy on the tiller to look at the wind & boat speed, but the water was boiling past the boat, & the boat was tipping side to side. after they got the genny down i started the engine & turned around & we lowered the main. that is faster than my boat has ever gone. i was a young 85 at the time


----------



## smackdaddy

Jack and Bill - I definitely want to be like you guys when I grow up.

Younger generation...watch and learn.


----------



## WDS123

Smack - the owner of the Harbor 25 in the 51 knot microburst is a remarkable mariner. Instead of soiling his shorts, he gets the boat arranged and then has a hoot of a sail back in. All on a 21 ft waterline boat

Capt Bill - God has blessed you with great crew and family


----------



## smackdaddy

WDS123 said:


> Smack - the owner of the Harbor 25 in the 51 knot microburst is a remarkable mariner. Instead of soiling his shorts, he gets the boat arranged and then has a hoot of a sail back in. All on a 21 ft waterline boat
> 
> Capt Bill - God has blessed you with great crew and family


No doubt WD. Anyone that can have a hoot in 51 knots knows what their doing. I've been on my boat in 50 knots one time...while in the slip.

There was, however, that time I sailed through the tornado. And I've got the shorts to prove it.










http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...ed/47351-big-freakin-sails-22.html#post710145


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - heading out on Saturday in search of my first multihull BFS.

Anyone else rip a big one this past season? So far jackdale is running away with this year's exploits. Hands down. Where's that write up Jack? I'm dyin' here!


----------



## flyingwelshman

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - heading out on Saturday in search of my first multihull BFS.


Break a leg! (or an ama - or whatever): you know not wishing 'good luck' as that might have the opposite effect.


----------



## flyingwelshman

smackdaddy said:


> Anyone else rip a big one this past season? So far jackdale is running away with this year's exploits. Hands down. Where's that write up Jack? I'm dyin' here!


I thought this might qualify for a BFS (at least a MFS)


----------



## smackdaddy

flyingwelshman said:


> I thought this might qualify for a BFS (at least a MFS)


Oh hell yeah!!!










Hereby stolen and added to the Hall of Fame...



flyingwelshman said:


> I was supposed to be heading up to the North Channel right now.
> 
> I left Midland yesterday and sailed towards Hope Island - a trip of about 25 miles.
> 
> Today I was supposed to be crossing Georgian Bay to Cabot Head. The winds were forecast to be very favourable for the crossing. I have crossed the Bay a number of times but have yet to make it all the way across under sail. Today was to be the day.
> 
> As you may be able to infer by the fact that I am at my computer typing this: I am not making that crossing!
> 
> So what happened?
> 
> The day began very well. The wind was blowing from the Northwest at about 15 - 20 knots. I tied down my main to the first reef and headed out of the marina.
> 
> The forecast was for the winds to subside to below 15 knots by noon. Wave height on Southern Georgian Bay was forecast to be 1 metre, reducing to ½ metre.
> 
> We would have to tack up past Penetanguishene then, if the wind stayed as forecast, take a close reach right over to Hope Island.
> 
> We headed up the Bay. The boat was handling beautifully. We got up past Penetanguishene in 4 or 5 tacks. We were doing between 5 ½ and 6 ½ knots. The sun was out. All was well.
> 
> We got around Sawlog Point and headed West to get under Giant's Tomb.
> 
> Once past Giant's Tomb the waves got quite big - in the 2 metre range. The wind seemed to have increased to 20 - 25 ish. The boat was still handling well with one reef in. The traveler was lowered to ease the main and keep us more or less upright. The waves were coming in on our starboard quarter, rolling the boat a bit, but not uncomfortably. I had a ****-eating grin on my face, fantasizing about the crossing the next day.
> 
> We tacked up and headed towards the Watchers so that we could get a good line straight down between Beckwith and Hope.
> 
> The waves were building to 2 ½ - 3 metres. The wind was gusting a bit between 15 and 25ish. The boat was taking the waves on the bow. Every third or fourth wave rolling up the deck and giving us a shower as the bow ploughed into the surf. Flume sprayed off the tops of a few of the breaking waves. This was what it's all about!
> 
> A boat crossed in from the West, under jib alone. They were making good headway. I recognized them as being from my marina and we waved as we passed.
> 
> A couple of weeks ago my dinghy gave up the ghost. All of the seams gave out at once. I rolled her up and gave her an ignominious burial in the bin. I replaced her with a nice little beauty that I specifically liked for its lightness (Highfield Ultralite 260). It was this very lightness that led to the disaster that was about to unfold.
> 
> I had the new dinghy on a line that included a thick rubber snubber. The line was attached to the dinghy with a bronze clip. (The same set up that I used on my older, heavier dinghy).
> 
> Now here is where the 'little voice' part comes in: As I was preparing for the trip I had given serious consideration to attaching the dinghy to my pushpit stanchions via two, perfectly-located attachment points on the dinghy's transom. This would reduce the drag of the dinghy substantially. I didn't listen to that voice thinking that I would make the change once I arrived at Hope Island, before crossing the Bay. I had been across this stretch of water many times (4 times in the last week alone) with the dinghy towed behind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, so, heading into big waves, strong wind, light dinghy in tow.
> 
> I didn't see it happen, but I assume that the dinghy got to the top of a wave and the wind caught it under the pontoon and flipped it. However it happened, I looked back to see the dinghy inverted and all of the stuff that had been in it, now, floating around it.
> 
> No sooner had I seen this than we heard a loud 'bang' and the line attaching the dinghy to the boat coiled back towards my stern, unencumbered by my new dinghy. On later inspection I saw that the clip had sheered in a neat cut and the heavy rubber snubber had been split in half.
> 
> Now we are heading into the weather, away from my brand new dinghy. I told Hardy to heave to, so that we could assess the situation and plan the recovery. As we hove to my main sail separated, neatly along some stitching, from luff to leach. I used some nautical language as I clambered up to reef the main to the second reef point, which was above the tear.
> 
> After wrestling with the sail, we got the boat re-rigged and started our rescue operations. Hardy on the wheel and me perched on the swim platform with, what I will refer to as 'that *******, piece of **** boat hook' (FPOSBH) in one hand, my other hand white-knuckled around a stanchion.
> 
> We got along side the dinghy and I tried to hook it with the FPOSBH. I was able to snag the motor mount and handle of the FPOSBH slid off the end of the pole, adding to the flotsam that now surrounded the overturned dinghy.
> 
> Now I was armed with a very small landing net that I optimistically carry aboard.
> 
> As we approached the dinghy I saw that the seat had come loose and was floating separately from the tender. We agreed that we would try for the seat first, as the dinghy was quite visible.
> 
> We made a pass and I was able to get the net around the end of the seat, but the sea wasn't ready to give her up. The seat rolled out of the net and drifted mockingly out of reach.
> 
> We came to the conclusion that we should drop the sails and continue our recovery mission under power. So this is what we did.
> 
> Now we had the ability to back onto our target. This seemed like a good idea. I held on tight as the waves broke over me, thanking my wife for giving me that hydrostatic PFD.
> 
> Now, here's where I'm glad I didn't listen to that 'voice'. As we were getting so close to the seat, I was very tempted to put on a life jacket, tether myself off, and jump in for the seat. I'm pretty sure I could have done it, but there were way too many things that could have gone wrong. As it was I stayed aboard Sea Dragon.
> 
> We got close to retrieving the seat a few times, but after about an hour or so, we realized that our efforts would be better reserved for the dinghy itself. I had noticed that the seat appeared to be cracked anyway. I suspect we might have run over it.
> 
> We headed down with the waves, trying to see the overturned dinghy. A white inflatable amongst rolling white caps. It wasn't long, however, before we saw the boat and headed for it. By the time we caught up with it we were at the south end of Giant's Tomb Island. Had we been much longer the dinghy would have washed up at Methodist Beach.
> 
> Being experienced in maneuvering my boat in these conditions by now, Hardy soon had us back toward the dinghy. I was able to grab the handle on the third or fourth pass. I clipped a new line on and between Hardy and I we were able to flip the dinghy - none the worse for wear, other than minus its seat - but she was much cleaner!
> 
> "Now what?" asked Hardy.
> 
> "I'm going home!" I said in my sodden clothes.


FPOSD.


----------



## jackdale

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - heading out on Saturday in search of my first multihull BFS.
> 
> Anyone else rip a big one this past season? So far jackdale is running away with this year's exploits. Hands down. Where's that write up Jack? I'm dyin' here!


I have written an article for Pacific Yachting. When it gets published I will post it.

Also I have asked the crew for photos and videos, I was a little busy at the time.


----------



## smackdaddy

Very cool jd. I look forward to it. That will be a hell of a read.


----------



## jackdale

smackdaddy said:


> Very cool jd. I look forward to it. That will be a hell of a read.


here is the AMVER press release.

http://www.amver.com/press/08-09-12_press_release.pdf

You can also Google Navarino Turicum.


----------



## jackdale

Some video
















Be there, done that ....


----------



## PeterSailer

Luckily you guys had some good weather...would of been quite scary in a blow!

Pierre


----------



## jackdale

PeterSailer said:


> Luckily you guys had some good weather...would of been quite scary in a blow!
> 
> Pierre


For sure.

The Captain of Navarino positioned her so that we in in her lee.


----------



## smackdaddy

Wow. Nice job Jack and crew! Sounded like some great communication going on.


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## jackdale

The text of the article that I wrote for Pacific Yachting is at http://www.sailnet.com/forums/pacif...edical-evacuation-maui-return.html#post929330

Jack


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## smackdaddy

Today, finally, was the inaugural sail of our beautifully restored 1975 Spirit 17 beach cat. We have decided to name what's left of the boat "Fiasco". Because that's exactly what transpired. 

It was the most disastrous, excruciating, and humiliatingly hilarious BFS in history. 

More soon. But as a teaser, I WAS able to fly a hull just before she sunk. So I got that going for me.


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## smackdaddy

*The Fiasco*

DISCLAIMER: The following account contains scenes of graphic violence exacted on a beautiful boat and a massive ego. Reader discretion is strongly advised.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

PROLOGUE
It all started with a dream. A dream of shattering the plodding Exhilaration Barrier of 6 knots attainable by our well-loved, but slow 4KSB, _"The Smacktanic"_. It was a dream of speed.

So, my wife, boys and I sought out a cheap, horribly crappy beach cat. And we found it&#8230;rotting away in a field:










After over $1,000 and 100 hours of work (detailed in the "Beach Cats in Rehab" thread), this 1975 Spirit 17 beachcat was transformed into a gorgeous thoroughbred&#8230;










&#8230;ready to carry us across the water at break-neck speed and shatter the Exhilaration Barrier once and for all.

We hadn't named the boat yet. We figured we'd just know it after our first sail. She would tell us what her name needed to be.

So, now it was just a matter of waiting for the perfect day. Several weekends came and went. Either schedule or weather or both conspired to keep us from our destiny. Until, that is, October 5, 2012. A day that will live in painful hilarity.

THE RIGGING
Sailflow predicted sun, temperature in the '80s and winds between 10 and 15. It was time.

We started prepping the boat and assorted gear at around 1000. Everything had been carefully thought out and readied. The new trailer hitch was on the Honda, lights were working, sails were stitched and battened, new rudders were gleaming, and boys were washing down the hulls - adding that final touch to a perfect vessel.

We filled the back of the Honda with necessary tools, back-up gear, snacks, water, sunscreen, PFDs, and everything else needed for the adventure. I then carefully placed all our electronics, wallets, and other valuable necessities into a drybag. We were ready.

We arrived at the lake at around 1130, and admired our beauty as we prepared to rig her for launch.










She was perfect.

The first inkling of trouble came with the mast raise. The mast weighs somewhere around 50 pounds. Upping the difficulty factor, it has no locking/hinging mechanism at the base. Further compounding it was the composition of crew. Though she's a very strong rock-climber, SmackMomma (SM) weighs just over twice the weight of the mast, and stands a petite 5'4". Then we have the Smacklings who, though tough as mules, are a mere 8YO and 12YO. So we needed a system.

To have any prayer at raising the thing, you have to tie down the base of the mast at the step to keep the thing from shooting forward or see-sawing uncontrollably while you bust several hernias lifting and maneuvering it into place. Then to avert complete disaster, you have to have someone in front of the boat with a line tied to the mast to assist with the raise, then keep it in place while the forestay is secured. It's during the initial 8'-10' of the raise, prior to the shrouds offering lateral support, that things are crazy as the mast wants to rotate wildly away from center - ripping out chainplates and beheading onlookers with a slashing cable. My job was to attempt to prevent this. Other than that - it's a perfectly safe activity for the children.

We had barely been able to manage it our last try with 4 adults. We were now on our own.

The wife stood back at the mast head, supporting the mast on her shoulder, ready to hoist the first 12". I stood on the back of the trampoline ready to take it the next 27'. SmacklingTheElder (STE) stood in front of the Honda holding a "safety line" tied to the forestay, ready to hold the mast in place once raised. And SmacklingTheYounger (STY) stood off to the side, holding the forestay pin in one hand, while throwing acorns at his annoyed brother with the other.










At my word, we began the Iwo Jima re-enactment. Immediately the mast tried it's rotation trick. I was pushed to the starboard edge of the tramp - straining mightily to regain control and not fall to the pavement and be impaled by my beautiful boat. It swung the other way, sending me hopping to port. I was seeing stars. I hadn't exerted myself this hard since Algebra&#8230;and it was showing in my white pallor. I cranked with all my might but only got another foot or two of raise, then an abrupt stop. The port shroud had wrapped around the rudder!

In a voice that sounded a lot like a second grade girl, I alerted SM to the problem. She rushed over and cleared the blockage. I strained again and got the mast to within 10 degrees of vertical when the motion stopped cold. Now what???? Smackmomma identified the problem. I had tied the base down too tight - the rope was not letting the mast come up those last couple of feet. I was feeling lightheaded, my mouth was like sand, I was going to pass out. Now at the bow, SM was thinking about loosening the rope, just a bit...but we knew that would only lead to disaster. She then commented on my unique shade of green.

It was time to lower - and fast. She leapt into action, committing the cardinal sin of stepping on the top deck of the port hull to bound away. A sickening crunch of delamination added to the mood - but there was no time to be upset. We'd deal with that later. If that was the worst of the damage today - we'd be fine. Just fine.

We safely got the mast back down and I collapsed onto the trampoline&#8230;begging for water.

After a few minutes I regained consciousness and bowel control. I was able to collect myself and we rethought our plan. I retied the mast base, hoping I'd guessed right this time at the amount of play needed for that last few inches. STE came up with the brilliant idea to use the trailer winch to pull the saftey line up while I raised the mast, ensuring much stronger support and the ability to lock it. Brilliant! STY offered to stop pelting STE with acorns and ensure that the shrouds didn't foul in the rudders. Brilliant! It was time to give it another go.

I suddenly realized it would make MUCH more sense to tie the forward safety line to a halyard as opposed to the forestay. This way, the forestay was free to secure without ever taking the mast off the safety line. It was then that I realized I'd not yet rigged the halyards!!!! Holy crap! We had actually been lucky that our misfortunate attempt had been&#8230;misfortunate. We would have had to lower the mast anyway!

After making double-sure all the rigging was correct, we tried again. this time it was incredibly easy! The trailer winch took most of the weight, the base lashing was perfect, and mast settled beautifully onto the bushing. STY produced the forestay pin from his acorn-stained hands, and we were rigged, baby! Things were definitely looking up!










We had been at this for about 2-1/2 hours. That's right, 2-1/2 hours. Having a boat in a slip that could be under sail in less than 20 minutes was looking sexier than ever. But we were committed to speed! So, onward!

We hanked on the jib, slid the foot of the main into the boom, prepped the halyards, clipped our valuable-filled drybag to the tramp, and slowly drove the trailer to the top of the boat ramp.

THE LAUNCH
While waiting for 3-4 boats in front of us to launch, I strode down to the end of the ramp to scout and strategize our attempt. We had very little room for error and were launching from a rocky lee shore, which, in retrospect should have given me pause. Of course, it didn't. Here is what we were dealing with&#8230;










We had that nice spit of sand which was about 30' wide to the right of the ramp (which would keep us out of traffic), and my intended course would take us nicely away from danger. It seemed I had plenty of room. We would just have to do it right the first time.

No problem.

I walked back up to the Honda and backed us down the ramp. It was exhilarating as our painstakingly refurbished hulls touched the water, then floated our beloved beach cat for the first time in many, many years. This was going to be AWESOME!

While SM parked, the boys and I wrangled the boat over to the sand spit - then encountered what proved to be the next huge hurdle to a safe launch. It turned out that just 6' from the water's edge, it dropped off a few hundred feet. We were on the edge of a canyon. This meant that there was no way to wade out to the stern help turn and control the boat. Everything had to be done from the few feet of shore we had - severely hampering any leverage to control the boat.

Fatal Mistake #1.

I decided to turn the boat parallel to the wind, instead of flipping it all the way around into irons. The thinking here was that I didn't want the rudders exposed to the rocks if we were blown backward. The wind was pretty gusty and it seemed too much of a risk. With the boat parallel to the wind, I could raise the sails with the sheets completely eased, then hop on, sheet in, and go. It sounded solid.

Fatal Mistake #2.

SM got back down to the boat, we got both sails up and were doing fairly well for a couple of minutes. But as I was trying to tie off the downhaul, I noticed that the main was laying against the shroud, which was not letting it open up all the way. With each gust, the boat would lurch forward and toward the shore. She was READY TO SAIL!!!

SM, STE and I were in the water trying to hold this mustang - but it was moving us closer and closer to the rocks. I worked furiously to finish rigging the downhaul when a particularly strong gust hit. STE was standing between the bows, I was on the port side working on the jib sheet, and SM was trying to hold the stern. The boat shot forward&#8230;STE ducked as the boat lurched over the top of him, scraping along some submerged rocks while dragging SM behind. I tried to manhandle the thing to keep it away from further carnage and was just able to stop the momentum. But some serious scraping had occurred - as evidenced by the yellow paint on the rock. Crap!

I sighed again - thinking about all the hard work we'd put in. A crunched top-deck, and now a significant scratch on the bottom. Oh well, neither was major - and both were fixable. If that was the worst today could dish out. We'd be fine. Had I only known.

We were now in a more precarious, rocky position. But at the same time, the shoreline pushed inward a bit from where we were, giving us some room. All we had to do was angle the bows back out toward the wind - hop on and go. We told the boys to go ahead and board. SM and I worked to turn the boat to starboard - with the very little leverage we had not being able to wade out.

We had just turned the bows into a pretty good position about 30 degrees off the wind when a very big gust hit&#8230;and things went to hell in a handbasket.

THE FIASCO
It happened surprisingly fast. And was surprisingly forceful. The boat just freakin' ROCKETED.

SM and I yelled at the same time that we need to get on fast! She jumped onto the tramp from the stern as I, still to port, tried to push the boat away from a couple of close rocks. We just cleared them and shot toward a small patch of clear water. I was basically running sideways in the shallow water as the boat accelerated. Just as I was about to jump aboard, my leading foot hit a rock and I tripped. I held to the tramp frame with one hand as I was dragged through the water at 4-5 knots. One of my shoes was sucked off my foot. I worked my other hand onto the frame. Time was slowing as the boat picked up speed.

SM and STY came to the edge of the tramp yelling encouragement for me to pull. I cranked myself onto the hull space just behind the tramp. It felt like I was going to make it. Then I looked up.

We were heading straight for the shore line strewn with huge, flat limestone boulders. I yelled for STE to steer us away. He valiantly grabbed the tiller and tried to turn. But the tiller hit me in the chest - I was blocking it. With just feet to spare, I tried shifting my weight forward and pulling the tiller past me. No luck. We were out of time.

I figured I was about to be crushed between the boat and the rocks so I let go and hit the water. I turned my head just in time to see an amazing sight in slow motion&#8230;

Our beautiful catamaran, gleaming from all the love poured into her over the past few months, bearing my entire family on her back, launched off the initial flat rocks with a sickening crunch, then literally shot 2' into the air, the entire boat airborne. I was sure they would just continue heavenward like a Spielberg movie. But they did not. Another sickening crunch as she came crashing back to earth and continued rumbling forward. I was mesmerized&#8230;she was actually SAILING on the land. How does that happen?

The boat finally came to a halt. And everyone signaled their shocked survival.










I pulled myself out of the water onto a rock - and hung my head. Completely dejected. All that work - obliterated - in less than 2 minutes. We'd never even gotten to sail her. And now it was back to the drawing board. I'd have to completely disassemble her again, re-build both hulls again (if they were even salvageable), re-paint, re-assemble&#8230; But even before that, I'd have to figure out how to pull the surely holed boat off the rocks and get it back to the trailer. Things were looking very, very bad.

I was crushed.

Just then I heard SM asking if I was okay. She was sure I had broken my leg in the melee. I just sighed and said I was fine. I turned to see her standing beside me, with STE just behind her in tears. "We put so much work into that boat, dad". That was a heartbreaker. I knew I needed to buck up for the kids. "It's okay, bud, we'll just fix it again.", I said with the best smile I could muster, "We just need to..."

That was the moment the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life happened. Somehow, the boat turned 70 degrees to starboard, ON ROCKS. It then bounced and shuddered back into the water! I AM NOT KIDDING!

STY, that little 8YO superhero was trying valiantly to hold that bucking bronco all by himself. SM yelled for him to let it go. And with that, our 1975 Spirit 17 catamaran sailed itself right out into the lake....with our phones, wallets, keys, everything safely attached to the tramp in our trusty dry-bag. We all stood there dumbstruck. I was sure it would continue to the other side of the lake where it would crash again, but it didn't. It inexplicably stopped dead a couple of hundred yards off-shore. Miraculously hove to.










Fortunately, STE got a picture to show that I'm not lying&#8230;










Now if any of you have ever been around horses, you'll know that they can be very picky about who gets on their backs. If they don't trust you, don't think you know what you're doing, or don't like you - they'll do everything they can to buck you off. But it's what they do next that is eerily similar to this situation. Typically, after they throw you, they'll trot a short distance away and start grazing - keeping a wary eye on you. Kind of mocking you.

Was that what just happened?

It sure as hell felt like it. Still dejected - and now in even MORE of a hopeless situation - I was quickly coming to the conclusion that we should just go home. Forget it. The boat would either sink, or someone would claim it. I didn't care either way. Of course, deep down, I knew that wasn't an option. But it sure sounded good about now. Oh yeah, our keys were on the boat. Wonderful.

That's when I heard SM's voice telling me we should catch a ride with the guy launching his boat. I was still in shock and just sat there as she hurried over to talk to the guy. He told her he would do it, but needed to dock his boat first so he could move his car off the ramp and park it. I have no idea what my face looked like at this point, but when I looked up at him, he immediately said, "Actually, I can take you right over there now. I'll just leave the car right here&#8230;running&#8230;no big deal&#8230;"










His name was Jim. And he was a saint. He invited me on board his nice clean boat despite the fact that my leg was bloody. We decided that SM needed to come too since I'd never single-handed a cat. We left the boys on shore and headed toward the boat - as Jim threw me a nice white towel for my leg. It was the most surreal thing I've been through in a loooooonnnnngggg time.

Then came The Question: "So, have you guys ever sailed before?" The humiliation was complete.

Jim nudged us up to the boat and SM and I hopped onto the tramp. She was definitely low in the water - but still floating just fine. Jim wished us luck and headed back to the dock to move his car. SM and I locked the rudders and pulled in the lines that were dragging in the water. After a few minutes of squaring everything away, it was time to see if we could get her back to the ramp.

I wanted to make sure she would sail, _and that I could actually sail her_, so I turned her downwind away from the docks. SM sheeted in the jib and I the main and we started sailing&#8230;fast&#8230;really fast. SM immediately said, "Oh wow, this is fun." But that was only the beginning.

THE NIRVANA
After a couple of minutes downwind, we decided to gybe and head upwind back to the dock. I was still nervous about sailing her. With the damage, I was sure she was taking on water. I didn't how how long we had - and I didn't know how difficult it might make the sailing. So we figured we'd just try to get her back to the ramp and load her up - although we were bummed that our boys wouldn't get to experience this INCREDIBLE SPEED! The wind was building, and we were going faster and faster. My guess is that we were doing 10 knots or so. I sheeted those groovy rainbow sails in further.










Then&#8230;NIRVANA.

I felt the windward hull "go quiet". Slowly, it started to lift out of the water. It kept rising until the rudder cleared. It was like FREAKIN' FLYING! It's hard to describe how cool it is. We were smoking along at what must have been 12-14 knots - throwing a rooster tail off the leeward hull. Despite the idiocy of the launch, this had undoubtedly turned into a BIG FREAKIN' SAIL!










It was at this point that I realized maybe the wild horse analogy above wasn't quite right. Maybe she had bolted back into the water not to escape us clueless knuckleheads - but to actually give us a chance to sail her. Had she remained on the rocks, we would have simply lowered her sails, drug her back onto the trailer - and gone home...utterly and completely dejected. Maybe she liked us after all. Or maybe she was just determined to get some sailing in despite our best efforts to ruin the day. Either way - she was one tough, stubborn cat. And she could freakin' fly!

We balanced on that single hull for several seconds - SM and I yelling "yahoo's" and smiling ear-to-ear. A gust hit us, almost dumping us. But I blew the mainsheet in time and we settled gently back onto the water. Absolute Nirvana.

We sailed up to the dock, then backed down gently to it allowing the boys to board. We had to let them have some of this. We sailed around another 15 minutes or so. The sun was shining, we were all working the boat together, no one was angry, we were just a family having a blast together. The boys kept commenting on how fast we were sailing. They couldn't believe it. It was then that I realized that despite the unfortunate events of the day, we were all hooked. We would fix this boat. We would sail her for as many years as we possibly could. THIS was sailing!










Then came the tack.

SM and STE had been alternating on the jib sheets. STE was on the leeward sheet, and the rest of us were up on the windward rail. As the bow came through the wind and the jib back-winded to push us the rest of the way through, the leeward stern sunk beneath the waves. The bows pointed upward at about 30 degrees as the water in the hulls moved aft. "We're sinking!", I needlessly proclaimed, "Everyone to the high side - fast!" I blew the mainsheet, hoping for the best. The boat was now at a 45 degree, bows-up angle. The rear rail of the tramp was under. I knew she wouldn't totally sink as she had big styrofoam blocks in both hulls, but it sure was going to suck trying to paddle a half-sunken boat half-a-mile.

Miraculously, she slowly started to come back up. Cheers erupted as she settled back into an upright, although extremely low in the water position. It was time to stop pushing our luck. I turned us toward the boat ramp and we took off like a scalded cat. We weren't able to fly the hull this time due to being in the process of sinking, although we were still cruising along at 10 knots or so. We were so low in the water, the top deck of the leeward hull was submerged to the point that rooster tails were coming off the tramp pylons. One determined boat. No doubt.

Without too much further drama, we were able to get her back onto her trailer. I pulled the drain plugs and water shot out of both hulls. The port hull wasn't too bad - but the starboard hull just kept spouting, and spouting, and spouting. It must have been half-full of water. Amazing.

Then we crawled underneath to survey the damage - at least the damage we could actually see. And it was substantial.

The port hull at a 4-1/2' long gouge and delam:



















And the starboard hull had a 3" hole punched completely through:



















So, we had our work cut out for us. But after some of the best sailing ever - we were all committed to doing whatever it took to get this cat back out on the water.

We got the mast down (easily, with our new system) and got everything packed back up for the trip home. It was now 1830. We had been messing with this boat now for almost 9 hours. We were exhausted - but happy.

"This boat"&#8230; That's right she still needed a name. As we drove into the sunset and talked about the crazy events that had just unfolded, the name suddenly became obvious to all of us. Of course&#8230;

"Fiasco".

EPILOGE:
Stay tuned to the "Beachcats in Rehab" thread for the lengthy repairs. Hopefully it will go more quickly this time.


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## PaulinVictoria

Epic Smack, epic. Funniest thing I have read on here for quite some time


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## flyingwelshman

*Re: The Fiasco*



smackdaddy said:


> It all started with a dream.


Excellent story.

You did, however, make a serious strategic error: you provided me with more digital images of Smack! (roll diabolical laughter.....)


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## smackdaddy

PiV - yeah, and the scary thing is...it's all true!

Welsh - I don't doubt your abilities. Just remember my kids are watching!


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## ottos

Welcome to the Club!


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## smackdaddy

ottos said:


> Welcome to the Club!


Heh-heh. I hope you just mean the BeachCat Club - and not the Fiasco club. Because if you too went through a huge fiasco like ours - we definitely need to drink a huge amount of rum together and commiserate.


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## St Anna

Actually, welcome to the 'fiasco club'. I think the boat was looking after you by dumping you lot onshore. Now thats pretty neat. 

As to the fiasco club, now thats another epic story. to be contin....


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## GeorgeB

Smack, I guess right about now you are rethinking the wisdom of paint vs. pigmented gelcote… During the last two weeks we’ve seen a fair amount of America’s cup action on the Bay and those sailors and their boats are definitely on the far other side of the spectrum. Enjoy the steep part of the learning curve! Don’t you have kick up style rudders? Back in my Hobie cat days, we would rig the outhaul last of all, jump in and take off. Some of our races were Le Mans style beach starts. A lot of fun, but I guess you need a beach. Other than ruining the paint job, the repairs look to be well within your technology, so get at it! And if you need any pointers, I’ll be sure to ask Cayard (The Artemis team are now members of our club!)


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## smackdaddy

St Anna said:


> Actually, welcome to the 'fiasco club'. I think the boat was looking after you by dumping you lot onshore. Now thats pretty neat.
> 
> As to the fiasco club, now thats another epic story. to be contin....


Sweet! This should be good!

I agree about the boat looking after us. We were doing a horrible job launching her - so _Fiasco_ just took over and helped us out. Heh-heh.


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## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> Smack, I guess right about now you are rethinking the wisdom of paint vs. pigmented gelcote&#8230; During the last two weeks we've seen a fair amount of America's cup action on the Bay and those sailors and their boats are definitely on the far other side of the spectrum. Enjoy the steep part of the learning curve! Don't you have kick up style rudders? Back in my Hobie cat days, we would rig the outhaul last of all, jump in and take off. Some of our races were Le Mans style beach starts. A lot of fun, but I guess you need a beach. Other than ruining the paint job, the repairs look to be well within your technology, so get at it! And if you need any pointers, I'll be sure to ask Cayard (The Artemis team are now members of our club!)


Artemis is at your club??? You lucky git! Hobnobbing with greatness! Tell Cayard that he needs to come here to check out my illustrious Multihull CV, then hire me as crew!

That was some seriously fun sailing dude. Wow. The rudders do kick-up (they lock down with a cable as shown below) - but I was afraid with such a steep drop off, I'd back down on them if I went full bows-to-wind.










I have no problem doing the repairs and repainting (gelcoat would have done nothing to help the carnage we inflicted on the poor hulls) - as long as we can get back out there and fly again!


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## GeorgeB

It’s a tough life Smack. On our Summer Sailstice open house this year, we had Oracle 76 on the race dock. The top sailors from the RSYC’s juniors program visited recently. One guy and the rest were comely blond girls in their late teens and early twenties. Needless to say, everyone enjoyed the swimming pool that weekend. The Swedish team has been really professional, most of the interactions have been locating housing and such. They occasionally use the pool during the weekdays. The rest of the time they are working in their compound up at the old Alameda NAS. I suspect as the main event gets nearer, more of them will start arriving and we will have more events with them. I am trying to figure out on how to score a ride on one of the 45s. No worries on that fiberglass repair. A little glass and little resin and it will buff right out!


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## ottos

smackdaddy said:


> Heh-heh. I hope you just mean the BeachCat Club - and not the Fiasco club. Because if you too went through a huge fiasco like ours - we definitely need to drink a huge amount of rum together and commiserate.


Well, lets say a little of both!

I've had my share of fiascos! uke

.


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## peterchech

Smack I really appreciate your honesty and look forward to seeing some high speed videos!


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## smackdaddy

Heh-heh. Why hide failure? It happens!

Sailors who never get it wrong...don't sail.


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## GeorgeB

Smack, Just so you don't feel so lonely... Did you catch Spthill's wipe out on Saturday? At least your little escapade wasn't broadcast internationally (that is until you hit the "post quick reply" button.) Even the big boys can have a bad day!

ORACLE TEAM USA Spithill Capsize #acboathouse - YouTube


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## smackdaddy

Yeah - and Coutts rammed the freakin' committee boat a few weeks ago. Remember that? I'm in great company.


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## tdw

smackdaddy said:


> Heh-heh. Why hide failure? It happens!
> 
> Sailors who never get it wrong...don't sail.


If that's a fact then I'm onto my third or fourth circumnavigation ....

Well done Smack .... great writeup, look forward to Fiasco Goes Again.

So should we change your User Name to Smacked Daddy ?


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## smackdaddy

tdw said:


> So should we change your User Name to Smacked Daddy ?


Naaa. Failure's temporary. Ephemeral even.

"We shall overcome...." (sing along everyone)


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## tdw

smackdaddy said:


> Naaa. Failure's temporary. Ephemeral even.
> 
> "We shall overcome...." (sing along everyone)


Individual failure may be temporary but that is for wimps ... me I'm aiming for an all of life holistic experience ... i've decided that here is something I can really get my teeth into.


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## jackdale

smackdaddy said:


> Naaa. Failure's temporary. Ephemeral even.
> 
> "We shall overcome...." (sing along everyone)


"Success teaches nothing." Bill Gates, The Road Ahead.


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## GeorgeB

Knowing that you are following the exploits of Couts and Spithill, can we expect more antics from Team Smack in the future? Good to read that you were able to get the little Smacklings on board before the end of the day – gives them a good positive ending and I am sure they want to go out again. A dumb question, why didn’t you walk the boat on a painter out to the T Dock and rig it there? You might want to find some vinyl stripping at an auto parts store as the cat is looking a little too “bananasque”. Have thought about naming it after those flying banshees in the Avatar movie? I think they were called something like ikran or toruk. Would make for a good graphic on the side. Seems apropos to me. How about a naming contest?


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## smackdaddy

GB - We definitely should have taken it to the t-dock. At the time, it just seemed a lot more difficult than launching from the "beach". I had no problem sailing to and from the dock - so it definitely would have been the right move. Next time we'll know.

As for the striping - I wanted to wait to see if I banged anything up (and need to touch up the paint) before putting on the finishing touches. Turns out that was a pretty good move, eh?

The name is "Fiasco". It's just too perfect.


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## MedSailor

Thanks for the write up smack. Your "regained bowel control" line almost had beer coming out my nostrils! 

I also think that Fiasco is the perfect name. 

MedSailor


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## Dirtboy

Thanks Smack, funny as hell. Beach Cats are a blast. I flat wore out a Hobie 16. Then I got a job selling G-cat's and had a 18' demo to sail. It's the speed, it's always fun and exciting. 

Loved the "humiliation zone!" I've been there. 

Enjoy your second rebuilding.

DB


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## CalebD

Hilarious write up Smacky Steve! I was nearly crying from laughing. 
So you got scratched by your cat!?! Now you've got the fever!!!

All I can tell you is that you will NEVER have another launch like that. One trip to the humiliation zone is enough to make even the most dense of people figure out how to avoid going there in the first place. 

Reminds me of a trip to the humiliation zone I experienced with a new to me 19' Lightning, not quite as fast as a beach cat but it is a planing hull.
First launch. Mid summer. It takes time to step the mast and ensure that everything is rigged nearly correctly on an unfamiliar boat. 
We finally get under sail in Lloyd Harbor (near Huntington) just as the sky to the west is darkening. Crap, a thunderstorm. I had my wife, sister and nephew with me and the general consensus was to head back to the launch ramp as rain, lightning and thunder came on quickly. 
We beached the Lightning and I had the presence of mind to lower the main sail. For some inexplicable reason I left the jib raised as we all headed for my car in a vain attempt to stay dry. As with most thunderstorms there came a front of wind that I noticed was moving the tree branches around outside my windshield. About this time I began to worry what the winds from the storm might do with the jib still deployed on the Lightning. I ran down to the beach only to see my new Lightning about 20 yards from shore sailing off on it's own. By now there were lightning strikes all around me that discouraged me from swimming after the boat so I went back to my car in humiliation.

Fifteen minutes later the front had passed and we could see my new Lightning (#11416) capsized about 200 yards away with it's mast stuck in the harbor mud. We swam out to the boat and tried to right it by standing on the center board but no joy. The mast was well stuck in the mud and it was just high tide. 

Plan B called for waiting for the tide to go out and we brought pitch forks, shovels and other gardening implements down to the scene of humiliation. I had to dig about the top 6' of the mast out of the harbor intertidal zone. The tip of the mast must have been 3' deep in the muck. On the bright side we ended up with a few dozen hard and soft shelled clams that turned out to be delicious. 

When the boat capsized the upturned hull faced the wind and general direction of the waves which pounded the hull and pushed the mast deeper and deeper into the mud. It is surprising how quickly a situation can go from the exhilaration zone to the humiliation zone.


----------



## smackdaddy

CalebD said:


> It is surprising how quickly a situation can go from the exhilaration zone to the humiliation zone.


+freakin1 to that brother!

We didn't even get any clams!


----------



## oysterman23

Bravo Smack Certified Bfs.... arghhh damn them tarpedoes I says!


----------



## Capt Len

While you guys are out adventuring and finding rocks and mud, I've endured a nearly non event sailing season with tourists who throw money at the boat.Other than the wet and cold June the sailing was great all summer. One highlight was the family who came with their matriarch in a wheel chair. I mentioned her in an earlier comment. Her last wish was to sail again and we scattered her ashes on the Salish Sea. No harsh weather, no breakdowns, just two or three daily departures with the appropriate returns and accompanying cannon fire at passing pirates.Now it's autumn and lighting the wood heater and cracking a 2liter jug of homebuilt vino is as good as it gets on the Thane. Sorry to bore you with the mundane but I wanted to put things in perspective.


----------



## CalebD

Good point Capt Len.
I think BFS entries should be about that warm glow of satisfaction you get after being on your boat where you still feel the boat moving under your feet back on land, not trips to the "humiliation zone", however funny they may be in retrospect. Especially sails that you wanted to piss yourself on should be BFS material. Do we need to put a finer comb on this?

There already is a "Biggest bonehead move" thread somewhere on SN. I've posted to it a few times already. Should we use that old thread or start a new: "Sailing Trips From the Humiliation Zone" (STFHZ) thread?

Whadda' ya think?


----------



## smackdaddy

Had I not enjoyed that awesome, hull-flying BFS after the initial Fiasco, I definitely would have put this one in the Bonehead thread.

As for the Humiliation Zone, I vote we keep CharlieC's Bonehead thread as HZ Central. That thing's a classic.

PS - My next ocean race is coming up on the 25th. Looks like it might be a spanker! Stay tuned!


----------



## JulieMor

Not sure of this is big enough but...

We were in port at Pentwater, MI, returning from Mackinac Island and the North Channel. It was Saturday morning. We had to get back to Chicago as most on board had to be at work on Monday. One couple lived in Milwaukee, the rest of us in Chicago.

The harbor there is very sheltered. Reports we were getting said 4-6 foot seas out of the north with winds steady at 15-20 knots. I was still kind of a newbie then, with less than 1,000 miles under my belt and mostly self-taught. The weather didn't seem all that bad. 

Two of us walked out to the beach. The wind was blowing hard. I grabbed a handful of sand and, to see how hard it was blowing, I threw it up in the air. The sand quickly vanished, straight south. I pondered the effectiveness of the test. 

At that point on Lake Michigan, you probably have a couple hundred miles of open water to the north. Anyone who knows weather on the Great Lakes knows with the short swells and steep waves, the Great Lakes can become some of the most dangerous waters on earth in heavy weather. 10,000+ boats on the bottom will attest to that. I hadn't yet grasped that fact.

We were sailing a Columbia 45, more of a motorsailer than true sailboat. With its 45' mast, that may have turned out to be a good thing that day.

The "sand-in-the-air" test was to decide if we should reef the sails and if so how much? As I said, I was kind of a newbie. With its short mast, the main had only one reef point. We only had one foresail, our genoa. 

The Columbia 45 was stoutly built, like a tank, and, with its 5' freeboard, we never buried the rails. I had become overly confident in the boat.

I made the decision not to reef. 

We hanked on the genny and then motored out of the channel. Once out, we hoisted the sails and headed west for Milwaukee. As we got into deeper water and away from shore, the seas started building from 4' to 6' to 8' and up. And the wind speed increased. 

I saw the rail bury for the first time.

We were about 5-10 miles out when I began to worry. No one else on board had any sailing experience and all relied upon me to make the right decisions. The wind speed varied between 20-30 knots. I walked to the mast, holding on tightly. I looked up and imagined the mast snapping. Once there, I eyed the bend from the base of the mast, then checked the tension on the stays. I was losing my confidence in the boat.

When I got back to the cockpit, I told the crew we weren't making the trip across the lake to Milwaukee today, a distance of about 80 miles. The pale-faced, white-knuckled crew didn't argue.

We turned south and headed for Muskegon. We sailed wing and wing trying all the while to keep the genoa from collapsing. We had no whisker pole. 

Our speedo dial topped out at 12, far higher than the boat was capable of hitting under sail. As I stood at the wheel I saw the needle bury as a wave picked us up and pushed us forward. Then it dropped back to 6 knots as we fell off the back. We did that over and over. 

I handed the wheel to a crew member and walked to the stern. I'm 5'7". As I stood there, looking at the waves that were racing to meet us, I had to look up to see the top of the wave. I couldn't see over them. Adding the 5' freeboard, I estimated them to be at least 12'.

Once we reached Muskegon, we dropped the genny but the wind was blowing so hard we couldn't get the main down. Our path had led us to less than a mile offshore. We were beginning to see whitecaps breaking dangerously. Turning into the wind again and exposing our beam to the now breaking waves seemed too risky. Finally I decided to sail her into the channel under main. 

As we approached the breakwater, with our main eased fully, and still feeling the the winds from the north, I was shocked to see a number of small boats, probably fishermen, at the mouth of the channel, just idling there, looking out at the open water. That they were considering even going out told me they had no idea what was out there. Or maybe they were just crazy.

Once I committed to entering the channel, there was no going back. Shallow water was now to the north and south of us. But I knew the little boats would give me clearance. It appeared I was wrong. 

One boat idled at the the mouth, disappearing beneath the waves and reappearing again at its peak. I put the engine in reverse to slow our speed. With main alone we were going 5 knots, with the engine in reverse. The powerboat, about 16', didn't move. I waved for him to move and sounded our horn. It had no effect. He just kept bobbing up and down in the swells as if we weren't there, disappearing and reappearing in the swells. 

The guy at the helm just kept looking out to sea, as if trying to believe there was some hope he'd be able to fish that day, or maybe he just looking for an adrenaline rush. I kept getting closer. I couldn't stop and he wouldn't get out of the way. I thought a collision was inevitable. 

I braced myself for impact when, less than a boat length away, he hit the throttle, spun around and raced back down the channel. I was both relieved and furious at the same time. 

Once inside the channel, the wind died enough to lower the main. We docked there and stayed overnight. Everyone had to call their boss and say they wouldn't be back to work until Tuesday. We talked about that trip for years.


----------



## smackdaddy

JulieMor said:


> Not sure of this is big enough but...


Oh hell yeah!!


----------



## PCP

I guess this should be posted here. Contrary to other guys that have posted on sailnet their stories it seems to me that this one has done everything right...except one thing:

A big storm like that does not pass unnoticed, even more near the US coast. True, he was expecting a lot less and that the storm passed further away...but I have learned the hard way that you have to give a lot of latitude to weather reports and not hope that things happen like they say but that the storm that is passing near by can change of direction and that wind prevision of force 7 can easily turn on a force 10.

So be careful with the weather reports out there and expect always the worse.

On this case that seems the time for the passage was not the right one and not even all good seamanship and a well prepared boat could avoid the consequences of that small mistake.

*s/v Sean Seamour II - the final log post after

tropical storm Andrea

May 12th 2007

This is the log of actions and events driven by the only subsequently named Sub-tropical Storm Andrea, leading to the sinking of s/v Sean Seamour II and the successful rescue of its entire crew on the early morning of May 7th 2007.

We departed from Green Cove Springs on the Saint Johns River in the early morning of May 2nd, 2007. Gibraltar was our prime destination with a planned stopover in the Azores for recommissioning and eventually fuel. The vessel, on its second crossing was fully prepared and some of the recent preparations done by Holland Marine and skipper with crew were as follows:

· Full rig check, navigation lights, new wind sensor, sheet and line check / replacement
· New autopilot, stuffing box and shaft seal, house battery bank, racor fuel filtering system
· Bottom paint, new rudder bearing and check, new auxiliary tiller, full engine maintenance
· Recertification of life raft and check of GPIRB (good to November 2007), update and replacement of all security equipment (PFDs, flares, medical, etc).

Although paper charts were available for all planned destinations, with increased dependence on electronic navigational aids, two computers were programmed to handle both the MaxSea navigation software (version 12.5) as well as the Iridium satphone for weather data (MaxSea Chopper and OCENS). A full electronic systems checkout and burn trial was done during the days prior to departure.

For heavy weather and collision contingencies cutter rigged Sean Seamour II was equipped with two drogues (heavy and light), collision mat, auxiliary electric pump, as well as extensive power tools to enable repairs at sea with the 2.4kva inverter. Operational process and use of this equipment was discussed at length with the crew in anticipation. Other physical process contingencies such as lashing, closing seacocks, companionway doors, etc. were equally treated.

The 7 day weather GRIBs downloaded almost daily from April 25th onwards showed no inconsistencies, with the two high and two low pressure systems fairly balanced over the western Atlantic. Only the proximity of the two low pressure systems seemed to warrant surveillance as the May 5th GRIB would indicate with a flow increase from the N,NO from 20 to 35 knots focused towards coastal waters.

Already on a northerly course some 200 nautical miles out, I maintained our navigational plan with a N,NE heading until increased winds warranted a more easterly tack planned approximately 300 nautical miles north of Bermuda towards the Azores.

Wind force increased about eight hours earlier than expected and later shifted to the NE reaching well into the 60 knots range by early afternoon, then well beyond as the winds shifted. Considering that we were confronted with a sustained weather system that was quite different from the gulf stream squall lines we had weathered previous days, by mid afternoon I decided to take appropriate protective measures.

From our last known position approximately 217 nautical miles east of Cape Hatteras I reversed course, laying my largest drogue off the starboard stern while maintaining a quarter of the storm jib on the inner roller furl. This was designed to balance the boat's natural windage due in large part to its hard dodger and center cockpit structure.

By late afternoon the winds were sustained at well over 70 knots and seas were building fast. I estimate seas were well into 25 feet by dusk but after adding approximately 150 feet of drogue line the vessel handled smoothly over the next eight hours advancing with the seas at about 6 knots (SOG). By late evening the winds were sustained above 74 kts and a crew member recorded a peak of 85.5 kts.

Growing and irregular seas were the primary concern as in the very early hours of the morning the boat was increasingly struck by intermittent waves to its port side. Crew had to be positioned against the starboard side as both were tossed violently across the boat. Water began to accumulate seemingly fed through the stern engine-room air cowls. I believe in retrospect the goosenecks were insufficient with the pitch of larger waves as they were breaking onto the stern.

At approximately 02.45 hours we were violently knocked all the way down to starboard. It appears that the resulting angle and tension may have caused the drogue line to rupture (clean cut), perhaps as it rubbed against the same engine-room air-intake cowl positioned just below the cleat. The line was attached to the port side main winch then fed through the cleat where it was covered with anti-chaffing tape and lubricant. Before abandoning ship I noticed the protected part of the line was intact and extended beyond the cleat some five inches. Its position in the cleat rather than retracted from it also supports this theory.

After the knockdown I knew there was already structural damage and that we had lost control of the vessel. I pulled the GPIRB (registered to USCG documented Sean Seamour II) but I suspect that the old EPIRB from 1996 (Registered to USCG documented Lou Pantaï, but kept as the vessel was sold to an Italian national in 1998) might have been automatically launched first. I kept this unit as a redundancy latched in its housing on the port side of the hard dodger; it may have been ejected upon the first knockdown as Coast Guard Authorities questioned relatives with this vessel name versus Sean Seamour II. Herein lies a question that needs to be answered, hopefully it will be in light of the USCG report.

The GPIRB initially functioned but the strobe stopped and the intensity of the light diminished rapidly to the extent that I do not know if the Coast Guard received that signal. At the time were worried the unit was not emitting and I re initiated the unit twice. The unit sent for recertification with the life raft a few weeks prior had been returned from River Services. They had responded to Holland Marine that the unit was good until this coming November, functioned appropriately, and that the battery had an extra five year life expectancy. I will await reception of the Coast Guard report to find out if one or both signals was processed as all POCs were questioned regarding Lou Pantaï and not my current vessel Sean Seamour II (both vessels had been / in the case of Sean Seamour II is US Coast Guard documented).

As all communications excepting hand held VHF were down (SSB antennae on backstay, DSC VHF down and backup antennae inaccessible, Iridium soaked in roll, GPIRB not functioning, EPIRB seemingly lost to sea when hard dodger sheared) too much time was dedicated to hailing over the hand held VHFs and attempting to re-initialize the GPRIB). Had I cut the rig, dumped the 150 yards of chain in the bow, plugged the deck through mast passage and rerouted the rule pumps through the deck air cowl vents, we could have jump started the engine, deployed a second drogue with the sixty yards of stern anchor chain and regained control of the vessel. But that critical time window was lost

Expecting worse to come I re-lashed and locked all openings and the companionway. At 02:53hours we were struck violently again and began a roll to 180 degrees. As the vessel appeared to stabilize in this position I unlocked the companionway roof to exit an see where the life raft was. It had disappeared from its poop deck cradle which I could directly access as the helm and pedestal had been torn away. When I emerged to the surface against the boat's starboard (in righted port position) it began its second 180 degree roll. As it emerged the rig was almost longitudinal to the boat barely missing the stern arch. Spreaders were arrayed over cockpit and port side, mast cleanly bent at deck level, fore stays apparently torn away.

I ordered the crew to start all pumps. By their own volition they also cut out 2.5 gallon water bottles to enable physical bailing while I continued to locate the life raft. It finally appeared upside down under the rig. As its sea anchors and canopy lines were entangled in the rig and partially torn by one of the spreaders I decided to cut them away in an effort to save time and effort. I needed the crew below and had to manage the rig entanglement alone. This done I managed to move the unit forward and use its windward position to blow it over the bow to starboard, attaching it still upside down.

Below, water was being stabilized above the knees. The new higher positioned house battery bank was not shorted by the water level but the engine bank was flooded not enabling us to start the engine and pump from the bilge instead of the seacock. In retrospect this was not a loss as having to keep one of the companionway doors off for bailing and to route the Rule pump pipe, the water pouring in from here and the through-deck mast hole were no match for the impeller' volume. Plugging the mast passage was also not a solution as it was moving and hitting violently against the starboard head wall and was dangerous to try to cope with.

I knew the situation was desperate but it was still safer to stay aboard than to abandon ship, let alone in the dark any earlier than necessary. Estimating daylight at about 05:30 hours, we needed to hold on for at least another two hours. As the boat shifted in the waves it became increasingly vulnerable to flooding from breaking waves. One such wave at about 05:20 added about 18 inches of water, as the bow was now barely emerged these two factors triggered my decision to abandon ship. I exited first knowing that the raft was still upside down. In addition, some of the canopy lines still needed to be cut from the rig entanglement. In the precipitation the grab bag containing Iridium phone, VHF, GPS and all our personal and ship documents was lost.

As we boarded the now upturned raft it immediately flooded with the breaking waves and once unprotected from the wind by the hull structure was prone to turn over (no sea anchors nor canopy to roll over on). Hypothermia was already gaining upon one of my crew and myself and our efforts to right and re-enter the raft drained strength. Periods spent lying on the overturned raft exposed to the wind seemed to further weaken us.

Sean Seamour II sank a few minutes after we abandoned ship fully disappearing from view after the second wave crest.

We became aware of fixed wing overflight sometime between 06:00 and 07:00 hours and estimate that the Coast Guard helicopter arrived some time around 08:30 hours. As seemingly the most affected by hypothermia and almost unconscious the crew had me lifted out first. It was a perilous process during which Coast Guard AST2 Dazzo was himself injured (later to be hospitalized with us). The life raft was destroyed and abandoned by AST2 Dazzo as the third crew member was extracted. He also recouped the GPIRB which remained in USCG custody.

The emotions and admiration felt by my crew and myself to the dedication of this Coast Guard team is immeasurable, all the more so when hearing them comment on the severity and risk of the extraction, perhaps the worst they had seen in ten years (dixit SAT2 Dazzo). They claim to have measured 50 plus foot waves which from our perspective were mountains. We measured after the first knockdown and before loosing our rig winds still in excess of 72 knots.

Also to be commended are the medical teams involved, from our ambulatory transfer of custody from the rescue team to the personnel awaiting us at Cherry Point Naval Hospital. There the personnel under Director for Administration CDR Robert S. Fry sought not only to address our physical and medical trauma, but preempted the humanitarian crisis we were facing after all this loss and anguish by bringing in the disaster relief assistance of the American Red Cross to whom we owe the clothes, shelter and food that helped us survive this or*deal.

....


----------



## PCP

JulieMor said:


> Not sure of this is big enough but...
> 
> We were in port at Pentwater, MI, returning from Mackinac Island and the North Channel. It was Saturday morning. We had to get back to Chicago as most on board had to be at work on Monday. One couple lived in Milwaukee, the rest of us in Chicago.
> 
> The harbor there is very sheltered. Reports we were getting said 4-6 foot seas out of the north with winds steady at 15-20 knots. I was still kind of a newbie then, with less than 1,000 miles under my belt and mostly self-taught. The weather didn't seem all that bad.
> 
> Two of us walked out to the beach. The wind was blowing hard. I grabbed a handful of sand and, to see how hard it was blowing, I threw it up in the air. The sand quickly vanished, straight south. I pondered the effectiveness of the test.
> 
> At that point on Lake Michigan, you probably have a couple hundred miles of open water to the north. Anyone who knows weather on the Great Lakes knows with the short swells and steep waves, the Great Lakes can become some of the most dangerous waters on earth in heavy weather. 10,000+ boats on the bottom will attest to that. I hadn't yet grasped that fact.
> 
> We were sailing a Columbia 45, more of a motorsailer than true sailboat. With its 45' mast, that may have turned out to be a good thing that day.
> 
> The "sand-in-the-air" test was to decide if we should reef the sails and if so how much? As I said, I was kind of a newbie. With its short mast, the main had only one reef point. We only had one foresail, our genoa.
> 
> The Columbia 45 was stoutly built, like a tank, and, with its 5' freeboard, we never buried the rails. I had become overly confident in the boat.
> 
> I made the decision not to reef.
> 
> We hanked on the genny and then motored out of the channel. Once out, we hoisted the sails and headed west for Milwaukee. As we got into deeper water and away from shore, the seas started building from 4' to 6' to 8' and up. And the wind speed increased.
> 
> I saw the rail bury for the first time.
> 
> We were about 5-10 miles out when I began to worry. No one else on board had any sailing experience and all relied upon me to make the right decisions. The wind speed varied between 20-30 knots. I walked to the mast, holding on tightly. I looked up and imagined the mast snapping. Once there, I eyed the bend from the base of the mast, then checked the tension on the stays. I was losing my confidence in the boat.
> 
> When I got back to the cockpit, I told the crew we weren't making the trip across the lake to Milwaukee today, a distance of about 80 miles. The pale-faced, white-knuckled crew didn't argue.
> 
> We turned south and headed for Muskegon. We sailed wing and wing trying all the while to keep the genoa from collapsing. We had no whisker pole.
> 
> Our speedo dial topped out at 12, far higher than the boat was capable of hitting under sail. As I stood at the wheel I saw the needle bury as a wave picked us up and pushed us forward. Then it dropped back to 6 knots as we fell off the back. We did that over and over.
> 
> I handed the wheel to a crew member and walked to the stern. I'm 5'7". As I stood there, looking at the waves that were racing to meet us, I had to look up to see the top of the wave. I couldn't see over them. Adding the 5' freeboard, I estimated them to be at least 12'.
> 
> Once we reached Muskegon, we dropped the genny but the wind was blowing so hard we couldn't get the main down. Our path had led us to less than a mile offshore. We were beginning to see whitecaps breaking dangerously. Turning into the wind again and exposing our beam to the now breaking waves seemed too risky. Finally I decided to sail her into the channel under main.
> 
> As we approached the breakwater, with our main eased fully, and still feeling the the winds from the north, I was shocked to see a number of small boats, probably fishermen, at the mouth of the channel, just idling there, looking out at the open water. That they were considering even going out told me they had no idea what was out there. Or maybe they were just crazy.
> 
> Once I committed to entering the channel, there was no going back. Shallow water was now to the north and south of us. But I knew the little boats would give me clearance. It appeared I was wrong.
> 
> One boat idled at the the mouth, disappearing beneath the waves and reappearing again at its peak. I put the engine in reverse to slow our speed. With main alone we were going 5 knots, with the engine in reverse. The powerboat, about 16', didn't move. I waved for him to move and sounded our horn. It had no effect. He just kept bobbing up and down in the swells as if we weren't there, disappearing and reappearing in the swells.
> 
> The guy at the helm just kept looking out to sea, as if trying to believe there was some hope he'd be able to fish that day, or maybe he just looking for an adrenaline rush. I kept getting closer. I couldn't stop and he wouldn't get out of the way. I thought a collision was inevitable.
> 
> I braced myself for impact when, less than a boat length away, he hit the throttle, spun around and raced back down the channel. I was both relieved and furious at the same time.
> 
> Once inside the channel, the wind died enough to lower the main. We docked there and stayed overnight. Everyone had to call their boss and say they wouldn't be back to work until Tuesday. We talked about that trip for years.


Why didn't you reef the boat or took down the genoa when you meet high winds?

Regards

Paulo


----------



## JulieMor

PCP said:


> Why didn't you reef the boat or took down the genoa when you meet high winds?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paulo


Overconfidence in the boat with a dash of inexperience thrown in. How many sailors go to the beach and throw sand into the air to see how hard the wind is blowing? :laugher


----------



## Minnewaska

*Re: The Fiasco*



smackdaddy said:


> ....Then came The Question: "So, have you guys ever sailed before?" The humiliation was complete.......


I almost coughed up my coffee. Epic story is right.

Nice writing by the way.

Now get that floating banana back out there and meet your commitments. We're good with the no practice part so far. 



smackdaddy said:


> No worries minne. I have no intention of "practicing" before hanging my well-toned butt off a flying hull in 20 knots while sipping a martini...for the ladies on shore, of course. It's just how I roll.


----------



## smackdaddy

Minne - not to worry, my martini glass came through completely unscathed. My well-toned butt? Not so much.


----------



## SloopJonB

*Re: The Fiasco*



smackdaddy said:


> Now if any of you have ever been around horses, you'll know that they can be very picky about who gets on their backs. If they don't trust you, don't think you know what you're doing, or don't like you - they'll do everything they can to buck you off. But it's what they do next that is eerily similar to this situation. Typically, after they throw you, they'll trot a short distance away and start grazing - keeping a wary eye on you. Kind of mocking you.
> 
> Was that what just happened?


Sounds like you tried to mount from the right side instead of the left. 



> Then came The Question: "So, have you guys ever sailed before?" The humiliation was complete.


Oooooooohh - and from a POWERBOATER yet - that's gotta hurt. 

Chin up Smackdown Daddy, you got a *great* name for the boat out of it.


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## smackdaddy

Just got back from a very nice off-shore overnighter, delivering the boat I race on back to it's home marina. 150 miles from Port A to Galveston. We saw more unlit rigs on this trip than on any previous runs - freakin' scary. Also got hit by a squall with full sails up and 6'-8' seas - but only got a wet rail and a top trip speed of 11.8 knots to show for it. Good times!

What sucks is that I missed out on the race this boat was in last weekend; the Harvest Moon Regatta. They got hit by a norther with a solid 30+ knots for 8 hours. They had a blast - and kept reminding me of that fact as we brought the boat back. Bastards. BUT - they had a DNF due to some trouble at the finish.

Anyway, write up and pics coming soon.


----------



## tdw

smackdaddy said:


> Just got back from a very nice off-shore overnighter, delivering the boat I race on back to it's home marina. 150 miles from Port A to Galveston. We saw more unlit rigs on this trip than on any previous runs - freakin' scary. Also got hit by a squall with full sails up and 6'-8' seas - but only got a wet rail and a top trip speed of 11.8 knots to show for it. Good times!
> 
> What sucks is that I missed out on the race this boat was in last weekend; the Harvest Moon Regatta. They got hit by a norther with a solid 30+ knots for 8 hours. They had a blast - and kept reminding me of that fact as we brought the boat back. Bastards. BUT - they had a DNF due to some trouble at the finish.
> 
> Anyway, write up and pics coming soon.


Unlit Oil Rigs ? Holy fornication, Smackman. Not much moon for half the night either. Errkkk .


----------



## smackdaddy

tdw said:


> Unlit Oil Rigs ? Holy fornication, Smackman. Not much moon for half the night either. Errkkk .


Lots and lots of unlit oil rigs. It's pretty insane. I would definitely not want to do that area without radar...although some boats do. Obviously, I don't have any pics of those at night - though I do have a pic of one of the biggest ones (5 platforms with catwalks between them) taken at dusk in a past race. At night, it's as dark as it can be...and could dismast and sink you in a heartbeat.

Oh yea, I'll also have to tell you about the fire. I do have pics of that...


----------



## MedSailor

tdw said:


> Unlit Oil Rigs ? Holy fornication, Smackman. Not much moon for half the night either. Errkkk .


I was reading the coast pilot for NW Australia the other day and apparently that neck of the woods is littered with oil and gas rigs, both lit and unlit as well. RADAR seems like a good idea.....

MedSailor


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## smackdaddy

Look at this bad boy...










...5 towers for ramming, catwalks between them for dismasting, all completely dark at night.

Radar is freakin' awesome.


----------



## tdw

How in heavens name can they be allowed to be unlit ? (Med ... this applies to the Oz ones as well btw) Utterly unbelieveable. 

I was unaware that they also littered the NW Oz coast . 

I've never sailed NW Oz so havn't read the pilot.


----------



## JulieMor

smackdaddy said:


> Look at this bad boy...
> ...5 towers for ramming, catwalks between them for dismasting, all completely dark at night.


I suppose it's all your fault if you hit one of these boat killers. Are they marked on any charts? If they require lights for towers on land so planes won't hit them, why not on these rigs? Something's stinks about this.

I know! Let's wait until some unsuspecting boater hits one and there is loss of life.


----------



## smackdaddy

Jul - most are marked on the charts like you see below...

But, since we have no idea if they're _all _marked (which we doubt), and since we _know_ that many are not lit...we only trust our radar and our eyes. But on really dark nights, that gets very difficult.

Most of the guys I sail with are in the oil industry (out of Houston). They say the reason many of them are unlit is because they are close in (less than 10 miles) in relatively shallow water. This translates into the fact that it was far cheaper to explore there and many more companies gave it a go. But, most of them were smaller operations that went bust...and when that happened they just walked. There was no one left to go after.

The bigger companies do a good job of taking care of their stuff.

People think that the CG should do something about it...but they're so underfunded for their primary mission, that going around and installing lights on hundreds of rigs is WAY beyond their budget.

So...it's just a problem that has no easy solution...apart from radar.


----------



## JulieMor

Thanks for the explanation Smack. Same story all over - no money for infrastructure, or should we call that extrastructure?


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## smackdaddy

So as many of you know, I did a 190 mile trip across the Gulf from Port Aransas to Galveston this past weekend. I'd have to say that although most of it was motor sailing (which I hate), it still rated as a BFS.

Everything from boat fires...










...to gnarly squalls...










...to great fishing...










...to seriously impressive SOG during one of those squalls...










*Check it out here.*


----------



## St Anna

Good onya Smacko


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## smackdaddy

Thanks brew.


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## MedSailor

JulieMor said:


> I suppose it's all your fault if you hit one of these boat killers. Are they marked on any charts? If they require lights for towers on land so planes won't hit them, why not on these rigs? Something's stinks about this.
> 
> I know! Let's wait until some unsuspecting boater hits one and there is loss of life.


From the Australia coast pilot, page 81 (emphasis mine):
http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/StaticFiles/NAV_PUBS/SD/Pub175/Pub175bk.pdf

_Caution.-Numerous oil and gas fields exist off the NW
coast of Australia. Each field contains clusters of installations
consisting of lighted and unlighted, permanent and moveable,
and awash and submerged structures. Most, but not all, structures
exhibit lights, especially the platforms. *Since not all features
are charted or marked, mariners are cautioned to exercise
special care when navigating these waters.*_

Make sure your radar works, and/or sail in the daylight!

MedSailor


----------



## Capt Len

Esso drilled for gas in the Beaufort years ago and the artificial sand islands have washed away but the drill stem still sticks out. I was lucky not to find one with my yellow cedar hull but one of Dome's ice strengthened supply ships flooded her engine room when she came across one.


----------



## biology

Lots of great stories.... It'd take me a long time to catch up on the nearly 250 pages of info over the years on this thread.

Just adding a short story, nothing epic like some of things so many others have endured... just in my mind really funny actually in a "family interaction" sort of way. 

...heading out with my aunt and uncle 5 or so years ago on lake erie. Blustery to say the least, but at the time his boat was well over 40 feet (I simply can NOT remember what it was) and he was very comfortable sailing her, and I'm confident in his abilities. My aunt was at the helm, uncle at the companionway playing crew as all lines came back... Main was reefed, jib was rolled out just a bit, and we were close hauled just out of from the protective breakers. The waves were rolling big... the wind was solid... the boat was creeping forward... and the decision was made to tack. As we came about the timing was perfect, but perhaps not in a good way. Right as we began sliding over the back side of a big rolling wave our trajectory was perfect along the side of the boat and the wind easily pushed the sails over... The boat was deep in this trough, on it's side, the main was taking in some water and that moment seemed to suspend there forever in slow motion. I swear it seemed like all I could see was water. We were all tucked into the cockpit hanging on and I didn't have the sensation of coming out of the boat or danger. It was in all reality a very calm moment. We just waited for those slow moments to pass as the rolling wave lifted us back up and the boat (like a weeble-wobble) stood back up. Of course the water that started to fill the main was flung across us, which made for a nice dramatic touch. 

Now here's what to me is the funny part. We're now moving through the water much better and heading out where the water doesn't seem so unpredictable. This is good sailing!! And after just a few moments of that great sailing my aunt says, "Don, I think we should head back." He knows she was startled, but we were fine and said something along the lines of, "well, we're fine... sailing is good... getting out into better water... etc" She paused. Eyes fixed on my uncle who seemed to be trying to mind his own business adjusting a sheet or considering letting some more of the jib out. She didn't let him off the hook, and though he wasn't looking at her, she was looking strong at him and simply said (in a tone that makes every husband's spine tingle), "Don."

He didn't move.... then glanced at her, almost slowly... paused again... then said (somewhat light-hearted), "Yeah, that's fine, we can head back... we've had our fun... mumble-mumble.. trail off trail off.... "

We tucked back in without any troubles whatsoever, had some wine in the slip, and called it a great day on the water. Looking back I still laugh when I can see so clearly in my mind my aunt's expression.... tone... and my uncle's smart response.


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey bio, welcome to the BFS thread. It has some truly incredible sailing stories...so it's worth the read.

Speaking of, nice offering! I know EXACTLY the tone you describe in your aunt's voice. When the old lady is giving you the stink-eye...you probably just BFS'd. As a dude, you're all excited that you didn't die - so you're ready for more! That never seems to fly with the Brooding Freaked-out Spouse.

You always have make decisions based on the storm that's most likely to kill you. Sounds like your uncle chose wisely. Heh-heh.


----------



## biology

@smack: thanks for the welcome. It's funny how when you look back on something; how it turned out forms your perspective. No harm no foul. 

No one was hurt... nothing was broken... we were on the water maaaaybe 30 minutes.

One of the BEST days sailing ever 

If we were in a smaller boat there may have been some soiling going on and the memories wouldn't be so fond, "and we all got into the car with our jackets around our waists because we threw out our crapped-in-pants and drove to the nearest bar."

Not all adventures are dangerous... and danger isn't always adventurous. 
You can have fun and be safe, and be dangerous doing something boring.


----------



## JulieMor

My dad had semi-retired and taken the boat from Chicago to Florida. He lived aboard for about a year, until a storm left his boat beached. Then he bought a house with a dock for the boat.

I would take the kids down every year to see him. The first time, while he was still a liveaboard, he wanted to take the boat over to the Bahamas. It was late February. The locals warned, _*"Never cross the Gulf Stream when the winds are out of the north!" *_ That stuck in my head.

We left Ft. Lauderdale and headed south on the ICW to Miami. When we arrived at the Government Cut I saw several large ships docked and a couple of cruise ships coming in. We motored out towards the mouth, right by one of the cruise ships. Some of the passengers waved at us. They looked like ants.

Once we exited the channel it became very apparent we would have to motor most, if not all, of the way. We had 4' waves crashing into our bow and the spray was splashing back into the cockpit. While my 7 year-old son was sucking the salt out of his ocean-sprayed jacket sleeve, I was busy trying to figure out where I could put my 1 year-old daughter so I could help raise the main.

While standing in the companionway with my daughter in my arms, I peered out towards the horizon. I could swear I could see large breaking waves. I thought, "That's probably where the Gulf Stream is!" I swallowed hard.

The wind was out of the northeast ~15-20 knots. I looked at my dad and asked him if maybe we might want to head down to the Keys instead, you know, to have a nice sail. He said no, we were just fine. 

I went below and sandwiched my daughter in between pillows in the forward berth so she wouldn't get tossed around. Then I went topside and raised the main.

I knew this trip was a bad idea.

I heard my daughter cry and ran down to check on her. The pillows weren't holding her and she was being tossed around like a rag doll. I picked her up and resumed my place in the companionway with her in my arms, trying to figure out how to get my dad to agree we were doing exactly what the locals said we shouldn't. My dad didn't easily change his mind. 

Then it hit me. I knew he needed my help, depended on it in fact. Then I said, "Dad, I'll have to hold Jennifer all the way. It's too dangerous for her down there. You'll have to sail the boat yourself."

He looked at me holding my daughter in one arm and using the other arm to brace myself in the companionway. Then he said, "Maybe we should go down to the Keys." WHEW! Averted another hair-raising experience!

We turned around, had the most beautiful sail through Biscayne Bay and enjoyed one of the best trips on the boat we had ever had.

But every year we returned to visit my dad he talked about sailing over to the Bahamas. After that first turn around, he sailed over there several times and loved it. He wanted to share that with us. But each year the weather just wasn't cooperating.

Once my oldest entered high school, we could no longer visit my dad during spring break because the grade school and high school had different vacation days. So we waited until the summer. My dad had told me many times it's much easier to find good weather in the summer. And we did.

We left the Lake Worth inlet around 2200, with 3 kids in tow. The ocean was a mirror, reflecting the full moon. Not a ripple, not a hint of wind. Still, I raised the main, just in case. It was my security blanket. 

It was about 0330 and I was at the helm. Everyone else was asleep. The drone of the engine, the bow slipping quietly through the glass-smooth water, was all I heard. Then I heard something. I couldn't make it out. It sounded like it was behind me. Like something cutting through the water. I turned to look back and off the starboard I saw this huge freighter coming up on us. It was about 200 yards off our starboard quarter! I looked up at the radar reflector, back at the ship and almost screamed, "What the **** are you doing!!!" :hothead

As I saw the ship pass by and soon felt the wake rocking the boat, I couldn't help but wonder if we were just lucky or if they saw us and felt such a close approach was prudent. I certainly didn't think so. I was POd! It woke me up though!

We had a LORAN to guide us and around 0800 we arrived at where the chart showed some shallow shoals that you had to navigate between to get to the harbor in West End. The charts showed a 55' tower with a flashing red light. All I saw was a 55 gallon barrel that had been painted fluorescent orange, floating right where I expected the tower to be.

When we checked in with the authorities in West End I said to him, "I was looking for a 55' tower but all I saw was an orange barrel."

He laughed with a big smile and said in his Bahamian accent, "Oh! That tower blew down in a storm years ago! We put the barrel in its place." I guessed we had heard right about navigational aids in the Bahamas being less than reliable. 

We were there for almost a week. The weather was gorgeous! But every night, when I was on deck enjoying the night sky, I would see flashing lights, as lightning from nearby storms lit up the horizon. I figured one would come our way. I just hoped it wouldn't put too much a damper on our trip

We left from Lucaya early in the morning to head back to Florida, never having one damp day while in the Bahamas. Once again, the weather was very mild but a bit overcast. We had to motor but I had my trusty main up just in case the wind picked up.

I kept expecting rain or maybe some winds. At one point I could see raindrops falling on the water. As it approached us slowly I prepared for a light drizzle. Then it seemed to stop just before it hit the boat. The rain was still falling, just not on us. I could see the drops splash in the water right next to us but we were dry. At one point I reached out and felt the drops hit the palm of my hand. Yet not one fell on the deck.

I thought, _"We waited all these years to sail over to the Bahamas. I guess the sailing gods are smiling on us."_ I was feeling blessed.

It was dark, around 2200, when I saw the lights at the entry to the channel of the Lake Worth inlet. I had been doing frequent checks on the charts and marking our location on the chart as we made headway. My dad was at the wheel, still wearing only his bathing suit. I told him, "Line up those lights and we'll be right in line with the channel. The LORAN has us about 4 miles out." The charts showed the next marker to be a buoy located a mile from the channel. It was marked "LW" on the charts. The lights onshore were glistening, inviting us home. It was so peaceful. All was well. It was good to be sailing but I was sad it would soon be over.

Suddenly, like the rapid closing of a sliding door, the lights on shore vanished!

Then BAM!!! The boat heeled violently to port. Everything below that wasn't tied down went crashing. I looked up to see the wind pressing against the full main. I knew we were in danger of either capsizing or the mast snapping. I moved as carefully as I could to the main outhaul winch, located on the deck, to the stern of the cockpit. I eased out every last inch of it. I saw the end of the boom slide over the water only inches from it. The wind had not yet been able to build any waves.

My dad yelled out, "We're going to run aground! We have nothing under the keel!"

 "WHAT!!!" I cried out. "What are you talking about?" I knew we were in the shipping channel where the minimum depth was well over 30'. I had seen nothing on the chart that told me we were anywhere near shallow water.

"The depth is reading .5 feet! We're going to run aground!" my dad screamed. "I'm in reverse and we're still doing 6 knots!"

Still sitting on the aft deck watching the main and the end of the boom, I cleated the main outhaul and attempted to walk to the cockpit. I immediately slipped and grabbed on to the winch before I slid off the deck and into the water. I knew if I went in there was no coming back. On my way to the cockpit, I saw the anemometer pegged at 70. I told myself it must be broken. We couldn't be in near hurricane winds, could we? We were.

When I got to the companionway, I saw my kids huddled at the settee with fear in their faces. "It's okay. We'll be okay." I looked down toward the strange sensation at my feet and saw the water running off my body, overflowing my deck shoes and pouring down onto the cabin floor. I was drenched. Behind me I kept hearing my dad screaming, "We're going to run aground. We'll have to run with the storm!"

I went below and checked the charts. No way we were running aground. The water was plenty deep. And no way was I going to run with this storm! NO WAY!

Then my dad screamed, "I'm freezing! Get me a coat!" My oldest son ran to the locker to help.

When I got topside I told my dad, "We're not going to run aground! And we're NOT going to run with this storm! I checked the charts. Stay on course and we'll be okay." He looked me and realized I was taking charge. He didn't argue.

Just then, my son handed my dad a pink women's raincoat. It belonged to my dad's wife. He could only get one arm in it. He was still in his swimsuit and was shivering.

I looked to port and saw the end of the boom bouncing off the water. I grabbed the winch handle and cranked in the main outhaul until the end of the boom was safely clear. The boat heeled farther. I took a few seconds to catch my breath when I saw my watch, sitting on the deck, now at over 45 degrees. Somehow it had popped off my wrist and landed on the deck and by some miracle it just stayed there.  Then my son yelled, "We're flooding!"

I scrambled down the ladder and went into the galley. I looked at my son. He pointed to the sink. The valve to the sink drain was open and the sinks were filling up with water, and starting to overflow. I quickly closed the valve and told him if he sees anything else, let me know immediately!

Then my dad yelled below, "Where are we?" I looked up through the companionway and saw him at the wheel with the translucent pink raincoat sheltering one side of his body from the biting rain. His hair was sideways. I looked up at the LORAN. I saw the readout flash several times then go blank. We had lost it.

I went topside and told my dad the LORAN went out. The wind was blowing so hard we had to scream even though we were only a couple feet from each other.

"We lost the LORAN?" he asked, with fear in his eyes. "We're in trouble! I can't control the boat! We're still doing over 6 knots and I have the engine in full reverse!" I looked at the lever and saw it wasn't full reverse but probably half. "We need to call the Coast Guard! We're going to beach this thing!" The depth sounder was still reading between 0 and 1 foot. Nothing was making sense. Brain synapses were firing but it was utter chaos in my head.

Then it hit me.

"Dad, the transducer for the depth sounder is out of the water!" He looked at me as if he wasn't grasping what I was saying. "What you're seeing is the waves pounding against it and scrambling the readings." The rain was biting at my flesh so hard it felt like needles piercing my skin. "That's the only reasonable explanation." My dad's lips were blue and he was shivering badly now, but I knew I couldn't take the helm because there was no way he could respond to emergencies the way I could. I could get around the boat much faster than he could. He looked disoriented. I felt terrible I couldn't relieve him but there was no other option. "Just keep an eye on the compass and stay on course." The adrenaline was pumping so hard I too was having a hard time thinking straight.

"Look! A light!" My dad pointed off the starboard bow.  "I'm heading for it! We need to see what it is!"

"No dad! Stay away! You don't know what that is! It could be anything. If we hit it, we're DEAD!" We were on it in seconds. Thankfully it was a buoy. Then I saw "LW" on it.

"Dad! That's the Lake Worth inlet buoy! We're right on course! Keep your heading due west and that will take us straight into the channel!"

At that point in time, we could have been in the middle of the ocean for all that mattered. The wind blew ferociously. I feared losing the mast. I kept looking for any signs of imminent failure and imagined in my mind what I was going to do if it snapped. Every scenario I imagined was pure hell. And any thoughts of going forward to drop the sail without any safety gear on board was out of the question. We'd have to hope for the best. I tried to trim the main in such a way as to allow the wind to blow evenly on both sides of it. With our heading, that wasn't always possible.

I got a taste of the rain as it poured off my face and into my mouth. It was salty. I looked at the churning waters over what was now the highest part of the boat, the starboard rail, and saw foamy whitecaps and the wind whipping the tops off the waves. Then I realized, some of the "rain" was coming from the sea.

My dad continued to yell his concerns about running aground. He couldn't accept the depth sounder was lying to him. I stood my ground and insisted he remain on course. My kids, in the meantime, dealt with this all by remaining huddled below. Their bulging eyes told of their terror.

Suddenly we saw it. Lights! A red buoy! Then a green buoy! We were almost there! A power boat blew by us and disappeared into the inlet. I tried to imagine what they had just experienced.

And just as soon as it began, the wind completely stopped. All there was left was a slight drizzle and an eerie calm. I turned around and looked back on the dark waters we had just left and thought to myself, _"Did I just imagine that?"_ It was if someone had just turned off the terror switch. I had no idea how long we were in that, all comprehension of time had been completely paralyzed, but I was glad it was over.

We slowly motored into the channel and as we approached the Coast Guard station I asked my dad, "Are we going to check in?"

My dad, still half dressed in that pink raincoat but no longer shivering said, "Tomorrow. I'll call them tomorrow. Let's go home."


----------



## smackdaddy

^^^^^










THAT, my friends, is a big sailing story. Very nice Julie.

Can I steal that for the "Featured Throwdown" section of the BFS site? Do you have a pic of the boat and/or your dad? That would top it all off.

To sweeten the pot, I always offer a free boozie or stick for a Featured Throwdown. It's an insanely sweet deal!


----------



## biology

Julie's story reminds me of the old episodes of "Rescue, 911" that William Shatner used to host. EVERY... and I mean EVERY story started out the same way. "It was a beautiful day, the family was hanging out.... life was good... everything was perfect..." and then Shatner's tone would immediately change and he'd say, "AND THEN SUDDENLY... TRAGICALLY..." and would continue on as the exciting story unfolded.

It also reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld where George pretended to be a Marine Biologist and at the episode's end recounts his story about the beached whale. He starts by saying, "The sea was angry that day my friends!..."

That's white-knuckle stuff!


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## JulieMor

smackdaddy said:


> THAT, my friends, is a big sailing story. Very nice Julie.
> 
> Can I steal that for the "Featured Throwdown" section of the BFS site? Do you have a pic of the boat and/or your dad? That would top it all off.
> 
> To sweeten the pot, I always offer a free boozie or stick for a Featured Throwdown. It's an insanely sweet deal!


Okay, I'll do the throwdown as long as I don't have to be hit over the head with garbage cans or get hit by folding chairs. I can do shots... no not that.. I'll sit in an Irish bar, getting progressively drunk, and sing songs. Is that okay?

I'll try to unearth the pics. Everything I have is pre-digital.

BTW, you are a trip! I love your enthusiasm!


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## HDChopper

Great story Julie ! Thanks for shareing it I really like what your Dad was made of ! 
One's gotta love a guy that buy's a house with a dock just for his sailboat 

BTW you have a fine mind to reason out the transducer problem during a crisis ! exellent reasoning ... "cooler heads prevail" as the saying go's.

Smack as always your a riot


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## JulieMor

HDChopper said:


> Great story Julie ! Thanks for shareing it I really like what your Dad was made of !
> One's gotta love a guy that buy's a house with a dock just for his sailboat
> 
> BTW you have a fine mind to reason out the transducer problem during a crisis ! exellent reasoning ... "cooler heads prevail" as the saying go's.
> 
> Smack as always your a riot


You know, more and more I'm beginning to wonder if the predecessor to a BFS was to head out to sea with my dad. Don't get me wrong, I loved him dearly and I still miss him like hell. But he had this thing about him, I don't know what it was, when he said, "We are going to..." you just accepted it. I can't explain it. And then suddenly you found yourself scrambling for your life! 

After he died, life wasn't as exciting. Yeah, that's sad to say. But he believed in his kids so much that he thought they could do anything. Somehow I guess I ended up to be the one that believed that the most. And when he invited me for a sail, I was there. OMG, the emotions are overflowing...


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## smackdaddy

JulieMor said:


> Okay, I'll do the throwdown as long as I don't have to be hit over the head with garbage cans or get hit by folding chairs. I can do shots... no not that.. I'll sit in an Irish bar, getting progressively drunk, and sing songs. Is that okay?
> 
> I'll try to unearth the pics. Everything I have is pre-digital.
> 
> BTW, you are a trip! I love your enthusiasm!


Cool. Just a couple of pics will do. Whatever you can provide. I'll pm you our general email address and I'll take it from there.

Again, great story.


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## smackdaddy

Julie - your Throwdown is now live, complete with the pics you sent:

Featured Throwdown

Definitely a BFS Classic!


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## HDChopper

Exellent job Smack !


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## smackdaddy

Stories like Julie's are what BFS is all about - so it deserved to go big in the revered halls of the Featured Throwdown. I had nothing to do with that awesomeness.


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## JulieMor

smackdaddy said:


> Stories like Julie's are what BFS is all about - so it deserved to go big in the revered halls of the Featured Throwdown. I had nothing to do with that awesomeness.


Thanks, but you put it together. I sent you about all I could find with the pics and you used them all really well. Nice job!

I've never raced the Chicago-Mac but I sailed up there 8 times. In 2011, the race had its first fatalities when a storm clocking 100 knots tore through the racers. Here's a video of one boat coming into the storm. This is an enormous BFS!





This is what was left of the boat that had loss of life, Wingnuts, a Kiwi 35


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## smackdaddy

JulieMor said:


> Thanks, but you put it together. I sent you about all I could find with the pics and you used them all really well. Nice job!
> 
> I've never raced the Chicago-Mac but I sailed up there 8 times. In 2011, the race had its first fatalities when a storm clocking 100 knots tore through the racers. Here's a video of one boat coming into the storm. This is an enormous BFS!
> Mackinac - The Storm to remember 2011 - YouTube
> 
> This is what was left of the boat that had loss of life, Wingnuts, a Kiwi 35
> Wingnuts 7-19-2011 - YouTube


That was definitely one crazy wicked storm. I followed the whole thing pretty closely when it was going on. What happened to Wingnuts was a major tragedy. A boat design that was very vulnerable to exactly what hit it.

BFS is always about facing big conditions, yes...but it's much more about coming home...then excitedly telling your story for years. Go big - but stay safe.

PS - Here's the best and most sobering video I've seen from the 2011 Mac:


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## peterchech

Nice videos re the macinac race last year. 

Those fronts come in like freight trains sometimes. About a month ago, while distance racing on an evelyn 26 with some add on crew, we had a front blow on through. We saw it coming on the water about 3 miles away, so we figured we had some time. Literally ten seconds later it hit us full on. We autotacked and were taken aback when an at least 25 knot sustained wind hit us with full genny and lightwind settings and the boat was knocked down to over 90 degrees, spreader in the water. I could see the crew on the low side literally floating near the cabintop until the helm finally got the sheets released and we popped back up. Conditions went from 8-10 knots wind, sunny and flat, to 25 gusting higher with rain and 4' steep chop/swells within 2 minutes flat.

I have always wanted a trimaran, but after broaching and getting knocked down this season with experienced racers as crew, it makes me think we prob would have capsized a trimaran if we had one. At least monohulls pop back up when u screw up... Except j/24's ...


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## JulieMor

smackdaddy said:


> PS - Here's the best and most sobering video I've seen from the 2011 Mac:


Yeah, that's intense! I've been on Michigan many times when a storm blew through. It comes on you so fast you barely have time to prepare. But nothing I've been in was even close to that!

The first sailboat I was ever on was called the Rubaiyat. It was an old Alden (I think), built in the mid 30's. It won the Mac twice, in '36 and '37. In one of those years a violent storm hit the fleet. I think they started with about 50-60 boats. Only 8 finished. The Rubaiyat had one crew who worked full time mending sails. At one point they pulled into port to sit out the worst of the storm. Then they headed back out into weather most of us would never sail into. I read the story years ago in a Chicago Yacht Club history archive. It made sailing on the Rubaiyat even more special.


----------



## PaulinVictoria

Does crossing the finish line just before completely shearing your boom off the mast, including the entire gooseneck fitting, then finding that the main halyard cover has worn through and bunching up so you can't drop it either count?
Note to self, a J24 is quite interesting in 20+ knots with a full main and spinnaker.


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## smackdaddy

Yeah - I'd definitely say that counts P.


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## Lou452

Smackdaddy and all the rest of you I just read about a man named Jarvis that is going to try to copy Shackelton open boat same stuff and all I was going to start a thread noticed sail net has one but the crowd in it is wicked. 2 pages of trash from dock huggers. If he makes it half way and lives it will be huge. Go check it out find the thread and post and post!! Back round so you can find out some with out all the bad crowd making the water turn to mud is expedition watch the shackelton epic wwwoutsideonline Regards, Lou


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## smackdaddy

Where's the SN thread? I hate having to use the search function.


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## MedSailor

Lou452 said:


> Smackdaddy and all the rest of you I just read about a man named Jarvis that is going to try to copy Shackelton open boat same stuff and all I was going to start a thread noticed sail net has one but the crowd in it is wicked. 2 pages of trash from dock huggers. If he makes it half way and lives it will be huge. Go check it out find the thread and post and post!! Back round so you can find out some with out all the bad crowd making the water turn to mud is expedition watch the shackelton epic wwwoutsideonline Regards, Lou


Trouble keeping your train of though together for a whole sentence at a time? Try this! 










(Meant as a friendly jab and a friendly suggestion to please try and make your posts easier to understand! )

MedSailor


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## Minnewaska

Lou452 said:


> Smackdaddy and all the rest of you I just read about a man named Jarvis that is going to try to copy Shackelton open boat same stuff and all I was going to start a thread noticed sail net has one but the crowd in it is wicked. 2 pages of trash from dock huggers. If he makes it half way and lives it will be huge. Go check it out find the thread and post and post!! Back round so you can find out some with out all the bad crowd making the water turn to mud is expedition watch the shackelton epic wwwoutsideonline Regards, Lou


You get out much? If the Shakelton thread is wicked to you, I would suggest valium. Lots of it. Whatever you do, be sure to avoid any real BFS, you might burst an aneurysm.


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## downeast450

Lou452 said:


> Smackdaddy and all the rest of you I just read about a man named Jarvis that is going to try to copy Shackelton open boat same stuff and all I was going to start a thread noticed sail net has one but the crowd in it is wicked. 2 pages of trash from dock huggers. If he makes it half way and lives it will be huge. Go check it out find the thread and post and post!! Back round so you can find out some with out all the bad crowd making the water turn to mud is expedition watch the shackelton epic wwwoutsideonline Regards, Lou


Here are a couple of the "dock huggers" (the Admiral and me) finishing first in our class in the 25th annual Blackburn challenge; a 20 mile open ocean race that finishes in Blackburn's home port of Gloucester, MA. We couldn't find a dock to hug so we got into one of our small double enders and joined the salute to Mr. Blackburn! A maritime hero of ours.

Down


----------



## Minnewaska

downeast450 said:


> Here are a couple of the "dock huggers"....


Yea, I decided not to bite on the dock hugger comment. I assumed Lou is a booger picking, x-game watching, nerd with taped coke bottle spectacles that lives in his parent's basement. At the least, I've seen his kind puking over the rail, while the rest of the crew naps.

Close?


----------



## Lou452

sorry mom dead when I was 15. Dad passed when my first son was 2 weeks old I was 22 I was living in my own home not renting 3 states away. I do not drink soft drinks or hard drinks. You are right I do have four eyes. I read the book on Shackelton. He made the bfs ever imho. Shackelton had his troubles but that sail and little hike was super human. Looks like I got a few things wrong about you also. Sorry about that mates. Oh and good race Down 20 miles is a haul . Regards Lou


----------



## downeast450

Lou,

Read up on Blackburn. He was amazing, too.

Down


----------



## MedSailor

Lou,

Agreed, Shackleton's BFS may be the best ever, and he was certainly the best captain ever. Keeping a crew together through all that.... wow. I especially liked reading about his "game" of, "what's for dinner is under the hat".

In other BFS news, I'm safely on the couch reading SN after tripling up the lines on my boat. Big storm warning here and it's blowing nicely. Here is a wintertime video to whet the appetites of those of us who are couch-bound for now.

You know what I love the most about Australians and the Kiwis who imitate them? They're so under-spoken. Listen to this guy's account of being told to take an experimental boat out and see if he can break it. FORTY-some knots over the ground and the bows burying at regular intervals, with a pitch-pole a very real possibility and he is all cool and calm in his description of it. Just look at how small that jib of their is!

Anyone else got the stones to gybe downwind at 42knots of boat speed? *My* account of the race would begin with, "after I my bowels were completely emptied I could get on with the business of holding on to the nearest stanchion...."

Cheers mate! --MedSailor


----------



## downeast450

Amazing! Can't begin to imagine how that must feel. Not sure I want to know!

Down


----------



## Lou452

Thank you I will check out Blackburn. Please give the full name and around the time of his feats. When a captian sets out for lets say a big sail? I am trying to get some feed back here. If it is like the Kiwis above or Shakelton, the 8 millon $ capsize in the SAN FRAN bay or even the HMS Bounty?? When is it a fool and when is it a BFS. Shakelton had no choice or did he? It would be like us setting off to Mars. The cup racers have a lot of data and are cutting edge. I am not sure The HMS Bounty is related. I pick her fate because it seems so easy to call less than wize. What steps make it a calculated risk and what makes it less? I do not expect a one size fits all, just some thoughts. I have my own thought. I think a bad day out on the water is better that a good day at work. Regards, Lou


----------



## downeast450

Lou,

Howard Blackburn is considered on of the great solo sailors. He is worth checking out if you are interested in BFSs. His sailing adventures followed his life fishing. He sailed around Cape Horn and soloed the Atlantic twice in small boats. With no fingers! Yikes!

Blackburn Challenge - History

The event both celebrates and helps to keep alive the story of Howard Blackburn’s desperate mid-winter 1883 rowing of a small fishing dory from the Burgeo Bank fishing grounds to refuge on the south coast of Newfoundland. Blackburn and his dorymate Thomas Welch had become separated from the Gloucester fishing schooner Grace L. Fears during a sudden squall and found themselves nearly sixty miles from the nearest land. Over the course of the ensuing five-day ordeal, Welch would give up and succumb to a merciful death, whereas Blackburn would allow his bare hands to freeze to the shape of the oars, and row until he reached land.

Though Blackburn survived he ultimately suffered the loss of most of his fingers and toes due to frostbite. In spite of his handicap, he later went on to twice sail solo across the Atlantic Ocean, earning himself the title “The Fingerless Navigator”. His story is told in Joseph E. Garland’s “Lone Voyager”.

Quite a BFS mariner! Read this book if you get the chance.

Down


----------



## smackdaddy

Let's file this one under...

"You're doing it wrong."


----------



## SchockT

smackdaddy said:


> Let's file this one under...
> 
> "You're doing it wrong."


LOL! Puttering around a mooring field, and they call it "Heavy weather Extreme sailing"!

oh well, I guess they get a thrill out of living "on the edge"!


----------



## MedSailor

I like how the tacked right in front of the power boat at about 2:00. That looked close.

As for tearing around the crowded mooring field on the edge of control.... not me. My insurance premiums are high enough thank you very much!

MedSailor


----------



## SchockT

MedSailor said:


> I like how the tacked right in front of the power boat at about 2:00. That looked close.
> 
> As for tearing around the crowded mooring field on the edge of control.... not me. My insurance premiums are high enough thank you very much!
> 
> MedSailor


Well, I don't know if you could call it "tearing around on the edge of control"! To me it looks like they aren't even breaking 4kts! They aren't even kicking up a wake!


----------



## smackdaddy

Swimming solo behind your fully canvassed Open 60 in the middle of nowhere...










Tanguy De Lamotte takes a swim - Vendée Globe 2012-2013

Them's some stones.


----------



## Lou452

Makes any sailing I might do bath tub toy boat time. I will just have to read about it and look at the pictures. Take a day sail and have a day dream. Tanguy De Lamotte May you be blessed with fair winds. Regards, Lou


----------



## smackdaddy

Lou452 said:


> Makes any sailing I might do bath tub toy boat time. I will just have to read about it and look at the pictures. Take a day sail and have a day dream. Tanguy De Lamotte May you be blessed with fair winds. Regards, Lou


Lou, there's no such thing as "bath tub toy" sailing. Any time you're sailing - on any boat - on any body of water - it's the real deal. Don't let anyone tell you different.

I got a lot of that kind of name-calling back in the day by guys who claimed they were "real sailors". They weren't.

Just go sailing and love it. That's how De Lomotte got to where he is. That lucky bastard.


----------



## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> Swimming solo behind your fully canvassed Open 60 in the middle of nowhere...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tanguy De Lamotte takes a swim - Vendée Globe 2012-2013
> 
> Them's some stones.


Sure it's cool. But one fart of wind and that photo would all but guarantee him this year's Darwin Award.

Wow. Yup, stones.

MedSailor

PS Is this the first BFS to be done in 0.0KTS of wind???


----------



## smackdaddy

MedSailor said:


> Sure it's cool. But one fart of wind and that photo would all but guarantee him this year's Darwin Award.
> 
> Wow. Yup, stones.
> 
> MedSailor
> 
> PS Is this the first BFS to be done in 0.0KTS of wind???


I didn't say it was cool. No way in hell I'd do that.

What I find _intriguing_ is the level of comfort he feels. Is it only the "invincibility of youth"? Or is he maybe just good enough that Darwin doesn't bother?

We all worry and fret over Darwin every day of our lives. Him? Not so much. Hmmmm.

Yes...definitely the first 0.0K BFS.


----------



## chall03

smackdaddy said:


> Swimming solo behind your fully canvassed Open 60 in the middle of nowhere...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tanguy De Lamotte takes a swim - Vendée Globe 2012-2013
> 
> Them's some stones.


Swimming solo behind your fully canvassed Open 60 in the middle of nowhere.....and having enough time to take a selfie with your open 60 framed perfectly over your shoulder takes ridiculously large stones.

I am guessing though that somewhere not seen in the pic is a line running back to the boat. If not add another 30% to those stones.


----------



## Minnewaska

Yes, he tied himself to the boat with a rope, as his Vendee Globe post claims.



> Hi all,
> 
> What a magical end to the night, the sea was so flat I could almost see the reflection of shooting stars. Incredible! Then the sun rose, it was beautiful, even though there was no wind, or very little. It was getting warm so I decided to take a swim...
> 
> I used the opportunity to check the rudder. It is actually more damaged on the side than I thought, I had to dive to see it. But it will be ok. I also took a look at the other rudder and the keel and they're fine too.
> 
> I swam a little, tied to Initiative-coeur with a rope, but the boat just wasn't moving. A nice red and white boat on the blue sea, it was the first time I could see it from the outside. I also saw fish, they were probabaly wondering what I was doing in the water.
> 
> I visited the top of the mast yesterday, and the bortom of the keel today. IMOCA yachts are huge!
> 
> Have a good night, you all, the wind is coming back and I'm feeling fresh, at least for a few hours...
> 
> Tanguy.


Intentionally raised his sails in zero wind. You never know.

Intentionally, tied a rope around his waste and went swimming solo to check his rudder. That can be necessary.

Intentionally, brought a camera to take a pic of himself in front of his boat on the middle of the ocean with his sails up. Priceless narcissist.


----------



## JonEisberg

chall03 said:


> Swimming solo behind your fully canvassed Open 60 in the middle of nowhere.....and having enough time to take a selfie with your open 60 framed perfectly over your shoulder takes ridiculously large stones.
> 
> I am guessing though that somewhere not seen in the pic is a line running back to the boat. If not add another 30% to those stones.


He was tethered to the boat, anything else would be suicidal... And, the use of an ultra-wide angle lens distorts his apparent distance from the boat considerably, he would not have been quite as far away from the boat as it might seem in the pic... _GREAT_ photo, but I would guess he took more than a couple, to get it just right...

I simply can't imagine doing that, one of the things that terrifies me the most, is going over the side in open water.. Then again, I can't imagine doing about 99% of the stuff these Vendee guys and girls do, anyway. Absolutely incredible sailors, I highly recommend Derek Lundy's GODFORSAKEN SEA, his riveting account of the 1996-97 Vendee Globe...

Robert Stone's novel OUTERBRIDGE REACH, is loosely based on the story of Donald Crowhurst... One of the more memorable scenes for me, was one in which the protagonist toys with the idea of going for a swim behind the boat, un-tethered, as he teeters on the edge of the sort of madness that Crowhurst had descended into...

And, of course, THE STRANGE LAST VOYAGE OF DONALD CROWHURST by Tomalin and Hall, is a must-read, a fascinating book... And Peter Nichols' A VOYAGE FOR MADMEN, his account of the very first Globe Challenge in 1968, is very worthwhile, as well... Damn, this race has produced a lot of wonderful writing, and of course great reading...


----------



## JonEisberg

Well, there are Vendee Globe racers, and then there are Vende Globe wannabes...

This guy was having a Big Freakin' Sail, alright - until he wasn't...

Gotta agree with Charlie Doane, on this one... An Archimbault 35 in the Southern Ocean? Seriously?

I imagine there's more than a couple of passengers on that cruise ship who are more than a tad annoyed with this guy, after not getting their full $20Ks worth on their Antarctic cruise...

This is one _VERY_ lucky dude...

ALAIN DELORD: Vendee Globe Wanna-Be Rescued By Aussie Cruise Ship


----------



## smackdaddy

Yeah, I remember reading about that guy. But everyone knows the rules of BFS...

*Rescue=FAIL*

You gotta bring her home for it to count.

(PS - Jon, do you agree with Chuck on this part?

_"Delord, *a very experienced ocean sailor*, was apparently stalking the Vendee Globe fleet in a bid to sail non-stop around the world alone through the Southern Ocean when he was forced to abandon his boat."_)


----------



## PCP

For some days that I had the intention to post about that on the Interesting boat thread but since you have posted here, well, it's done

The Archambault 35 is a great boat with an outstanding stability and is one of the favorite boats to race the Transquadra, a solo or duo Transat for amateurs. Many A35 (and smaller boats like the A31 or the SF 3200) made the race along the several editions without problems.

But one thing is an offshore boat another a boat to sail or race in high latitudes.

I remember some years ago professionals discussing if a Class 40 racer, a bigger boat with a considerable bigger stability has safe to race on high latitudes. After that several circumnavigations races took place and the boat show that it was up to the job but the boats were duo crewed and it is not a non stop race. If the weather is particularly nasty they can post pone the start of each leg. Anyway I guess that in what concerns safety in what regards a light boat, a 40class racer is about the limit in what regards good sense.

Going for a non stop navigation with an intention to establish a reference mark (and that implies to sail on high latitudes) with a A35, alone with 64 years of age is madness. When someone does mad things, sometimes one can get lucky, others the very real possibility of disaster happens and that is the case.

The sad thing is that guys that try to pull stunts like these are looked by many, including responsible sail magazines, as a hero and not as a mad man.

Mon Voile Mag , Archive » Un sacré défi !

Alain Delord, marin morbihanais, a fait naufrage en mer de Tasmanie : Un navire vient à sa rencontre - France 3 Bretagne


----------



## PCP

smackdaddy said:


> Yeah, I remember reading about that guy. But everyone knows the rules of BFS...
> 
> _"Delord, *a very experienced ocean sailor*, was apparently stalking the Vendee Globe fleet in a bid to sail non-stop around the world alone through the Southern Ocean when he was forced to abandon his boat."_)


Yes, he was a very experienced sailor but being experienced does not mean necessarily a reasonable one.

Delors had crossed the Atlantic 17 times and his best performance was a 3th place on the Mini class Transat in 2001.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## smackdaddy

Paulo,

I noticed that this boat uses a "vacuum infused sandwich pvc" hull construction. I assume it's a pretty light boat? If so, maybe more easily holed by the rig?

Also, how do these compare to the Open 40s in terms of toughness? The two look very similar to me.










It seems the A35 is a lighter-built knock-off of the Open 40?


----------



## smackdaddy

PCP said:


> Yes, he was a very experienced sailor but being experienced does not mean necessarily a reasonable one...


Heh-heh. Yeah, that was my point.

This is from one of the articles (translated by Google):



> But crazier is that he chose to challenge on a A35, a pure regatta boat of 10.59 m. We know Archambault, it's solid. Remember the misadventures of John the Baptist Ollivier, alias Titou, who had struck a whale with its A31 The White Whale . But anyway, the A35 is not a boat built for the Southern Ocean. This is not the opinion of Alain ... which nevertheless equipped and transformed Tchouk Tchouk Nougat (it is a curse of Captain Haddock, but it is also the name of the boat) accordingly. Seven months of construction (installation of a staysail forestay, mast reinforcement, hard top, etc.) and then three weeks of preparation were required before launching into the deep.


----------



## PCP

smackdaddy said:


> Paulo,
> 
> I noticed that this boat uses a "vacuum infused sandwich pvc" hull construction. I assume it's a pretty light boat? If so, maybe more easily holed by the rig?
> 
> Also, how do these compare to the Open 40s in terms of toughness? The two look very similar to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems the A35 is a lighter-built knock-off of the Open 40?


Yes it is a pretty light boat but that does not mean that is no a though boat. In fact in the English blog it is said that the boat was rolled and break the mast. That is possible, but the French say that they only know that the mast broke and that in consequence the boat was holed. In 7m waves and 30/40k winds when a mast broke it is necessary luck for not finish with an holed hull. He was alone and with 64 years in a small and relatively narrow boat in big waves and high winds, probably he just waited conditions to become more clement to cut the mast lose...too late it seems.

Regarding the differences between the two boats they are really big in what regards stability and safety features. The 40class racer is a race boat, the A35 is a performance cruiser, a stiff boat but a moderately narrow boat. The 40 class racer is a kind of a smaller Open 60, a beamier and much stiffer boat with a bulb at the end of a 3m draft that has also water-prove bulkheads and it is unthinkable (it has large parts of the boat full of foam).

Regards

Paulo


----------



## smackdaddy

Cool. Thanks Paulo.


----------



## PCP

More information:

Delors was sailing at 50º South at South Southwest from Tasmania. the boat lost the mast, the Australian navy was informed but he did not ask for help. Only several hours later, after the mast damaged the hull, he went for a mayday.

The ship that responded to the mayday is a cruiser specialized in Tourism in the Antarctic and was returning from Antarctica, going to the Macqarie Island. Big luck for Delors. Normally there is no boats on that area that is the biggest earth desert in what regard men. The ship had to make 440Nm in very difficult sea conditions to reach him.

During the time the boat take to reach him AMSA organized airplane rotations to fly over Delors. 5 airplanes were used, day and night. They dropped survival material, life-raft, water, food, communication means, survival suit.

Dénouement du naufrage d


----------



## smackdaddy

And now with Jean Pierre Dick sailing his keel-less 60 in rough seas. Yep - these Vendee sailors are monsters.


----------



## MedSailor

JonEisberg said:


> Absolutely incredible sailors, I highly recommend Derek Lundy's GODFORSAKEN SEA, his riveting account of the 1996-97 Vendee Globe...


+1 I read this book a few months ago. Before reading this book I had NO IDEA exactly what these guys were doing on those boats. Spinnakers up in gale? Always. Regularly keeping the boat speed above 25kts, check! These guys and girls are in a whole different category than even many of the pro sailors are.

Curiously, as they sail the southern ocean, near the iceberg limit, going 25Kts with spinnaker up in a gale, their idea of safety it to carry between 3 and 5 EPIRBS and have buoyant bulkheads for their boats. Usually worked too...

MedSailor


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> Yeah, I remember reading about that guy. But everyone knows the rules of BFS...
> 
> *Rescue=FAIL*
> 
> You gotta bring her home for it to count.
> 
> (PS - Jon, do you agree with Chuck on this part?
> 
> _"Delord, *a very experienced ocean sailor*, was apparently stalking the Vendee Globe fleet in a bid to sail non-stop around the world alone through the Southern Ocean when he was forced to abandon his boat."_)


Not sure exactly what there is to agree or disagree with there, but it certainly appears Delord was a VERY experienced sailor... Hell, the fact that he made it as far as he did, and through the Southern Ocean from the Cape of Good Hope and past Cape Leuwin in that boat, is still pretty damn impressive...

At any rate, thank god for cruise ships, it's amazing how many have become involved in coming to the aid of sailors of late...

Here's another from last year, very curious... Tough to see what the "severe damage" was that led to this one (appears to be a Morgan 38, a pretty tough boat) being abandoned north of Cuba...

Sail-World.com : Another rescue by AMVER ship Northern Star - thank you AMVER!















Of course, HOKULANI survived, drifted up into the Gulf of Mexico to the vicinity of the Mississippi Delta, and was eventually salvaged...

BoaterEd - Abandoned Sailboat passing our platform


----------



## MedSailor

JonEisberg said:


> Here's another from last year, very curious... Tough to see what the "severe damage" was that led to this one (appears to be a Morgan 38, a pretty tough boat) being abandoned north of Cuba...


Clearly since the boat drifted so far without sinking there was no imminent danger. As for damage, I see a couple of possibilities:

It looks like the lower shrouds on both sides are slack and swinging around. They could be running backstays, or flag halyards or something else but it looks like the shrouds are slack.

I'm also wondering if they lost a headstay. Is the boat a cutter or double headsail sloop? The furled headsail in the video does not extend all the way to the end of the bowsprit, or meet up with the bobstay. Was there another stay out there before that is now gone?

MedSailor


----------



## JonEisberg

MedSailor said:


> Clearly since the boat drifted so far without sinking there was no imminent danger. As for damage, I see a couple of possibilities:
> 
> It looks like the lower shrouds on both sides are slack and swinging around. They could be running backstays, or flag halyards or something else but it looks like the shrouds are slack.
> 
> I'm also wondering if they lost a headstay. Is the boat a cutter or double headsail sloop? The furled headsail in the video does not extend all the way to the end of the bowsprit, or meet up with the bobstay. Was there another stay out there before that is now gone?
> 
> MedSailor


No, what appears to be slack are halyards... And, that "bowsprit" is simply an anchor platform added on, the headstay on the Morgan 382 is at the stem...

The boat appears remarkably "tidy" for one supposedly having suffered "severe damage"... Sails are neatly furled/stowed, additional gear such as windvane, wind generator, solar panels are all in place... Hell, even the jerry jugs on deck haven't been disturbed...

Interestingly, the boat is now listed on Yachtworld, that's a lot of boat and gear for $18K... Looks like all the photos were taken as soon as she was brought into port, exactly as she was abandoned... Some of the pics confirm the upper and lower shrouds all appear to be in place... The only apparent damage obviously occurred after she was abandoned and during the course of the salvage, the anchor platform is mangled, and there is heavy impact damage to the caprail amidships...

I'm guessing someone simply wanted to get the hell off that boat... (grin)

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...nits=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=23306&url=


----------



## smackdaddy

Ahh, I think I spotted the reason they abandonded. In photo 28, you can see very clearly that the roll of toilet paper appears to have gotten wet at some point. It's all wrinkly.

Who in their right mind would have stayed with that boat knowing that?


----------



## MedSailor

JonEisberg said:


> The boat appears remarkably "tidy" for one supposedly having suffered "severe damage"... Sails are neatly furled/stowed, additional gear such as windvane, wind generator, solar panels are all in place... Hell, even the jerry jugs on deck haven't been disturbed...
> 
> http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...nits=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=23306&url=


Jesus people! It's an EPIRB not "OnStar". :hothead

MedSailor


----------



## smackdaddy

This guy's definitely a BFSer...






Freakin' classic.


----------



## schelli

Scary proposition.


----------



## smackdaddy

schelli said:


> Scary proposition.


I love the YBW Crash Boat explosion at the end as he's toastin' a bone. Hilarious.


----------



## kellysails

WOW! WTH

That was funny, love his theory on boating safety


----------



## smackdaddy

Now this is one lucky dude:






And this ins't just any dude. It's Bernard Stamm. He stays pretty calm, eh?


----------



## MedSailor

At 0:32 I felt like shouting (in a really fake French accent) "alarm!" "alarm!"

Calm as a cucumber. Awesome. I'd be fixing that situation with my sailing knife! 

Also notice, no harness.

MedSailor


----------



## SchockT

smackdaddy said:


> Now this is one lucky dude:
> 
> And this ins't just any dude. It's Bernard Stamm. He stays pretty calm, eh?


This ain't his first rodeo! It has nothing to do with luck. He is calm because he knows his boat, and he knows what needs to be done. I'm sure he has dealt with plenty of broaches.

Anybody who races hard has dealt with broaches like that. (actually that one was pretty "slow-motion" compared to some!)

Of course I have always had the benefit of an experienced crew, but it is usually dealt with pretty calmly. Doing it by myself in the middle of nowhere?
Can't say I would want to try that!

That guy definitely deserves your "BFSer" award.

The guy in the video before that? He was just a hack and an idiot!


----------



## smackdaddy

SchockT said:


> This ain't his first rodeo! It has nothing to do with luck. He is calm because he knows his boat, and he knows what needs to be done. I'm sure he has dealt with plenty of broaches.
> 
> Anybody who races hard has dealt with broaches like that. (actually that one was pretty "slow-motion" compared to some!)
> 
> Of course I have always had the benefit of an experienced crew, but it is usually dealt with pretty calmly. Doing it by myself in the middle of nowhere?
> Can't say I would want to try that!
> 
> That guy definitely deserves your "BFSer" award.
> 
> The guy in the video before that? He was just a hack and an idiot!


Luck had a whole lot to do with it actually. And I don't mean how he handled the whole thing...I mean one thing in particular...

While he was working on the hydro and the broach began, look at where he put his right hand. Now watch that mainsheet and big-ass block scream across it. The fact that he still has a hand was luck. The rest of it was pure BFS.

Yeah, the other dude is complete mess - but with a sense of humor. That's why I like him.


----------



## MedSailor

Perhaps not a BFS but at least an IFS (Interesting Freakin' Sail). This guy "single-hands" his Albin 27 *with only one hand* including docking x2 under sail, readying the boat, and putting it all away.

Showoff?

Good practice?

You decide!

I think, that if you tried this exercise, you would learn a lot about your boat and it would be a great way to teach yourself exactly what process are easy to do and what needs to be re-thought. If you do what he did, on a light air day, you (and your boat) be much better set up for the real BFS when you really need "_one hand for the ship and one for yourself. "_







MedSailor


----------



## smackdaddy

That's pretty cool med.


----------



## smackdaddy

Well - some seriously heartbreaking news today:










Story coming soon.


----------



## RainDog

Even at 180 degrees heel, his boat is still faster than mine!


----------



## smackdaddy

smackdaddy said:


> Well - some seriously heartbreaking news today:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Story coming soon.


Well - we lost our boat on Monday. I really had no idea how heartbreaking it could be. She's now sitting on the bottom of Lake Travis in about 100' of water. Story here:

*The Saddest Day of a Sailor's Life*

The rule has always been that to count as BFS - you have to bring her home in one piece - on your own. That didn't happen this time. But, that wonderful old Catalina 27 gave us so many BFS's - she deserves to be here.










RIP you great old boat. I'll miss you.


----------



## kjones

So sorry to hear that. Best of luck searching for the ocean boat (S/V Smacktanic II?).


----------



## RainDog

That sucks man. Happy to take you out any time on Travis if you get the itch.


----------



## Minnewaska

Smack, that is horrible. Very sorry to hear that. 

Almost afraid to ask. Insurance??

Marina may bear some liability for that missing bumper. Even if you have insurance, yours will probably attempt to subrogate against theirs.

The fetch had to be the real killer. We've had 55 kt winds in the marina as hurricanes brushed by each of the past two years, with zero damage. No fetch. Everyone did, of course, double up on lines and fenders.

Sad day in Smackville.


----------



## Silvio

Wow! Smack my sincerest condolences. That is horrible news. Hopefully insurance steps up and you will get back out on the water soon. If you are ever on the east coast stop by my way and you'll always have a boat to sail on.


----------



## krisscross

Sorry for your loss, Smack... at least it was not your fault and you could not have done anything to prevent it...


----------



## mikel1

That sucks . . . but . . .lots of options out there with the economy and recent storms . . . you'll be back in the saddle in no time . . .


----------



## MedSailor

I'm stunned. I have no words right now except I'm sorry. Your loss is real, boats are people too. 

MedSailor


----------



## smackdaddy

Thanks fellas. It's been quite a shock for sure.

We only had liability on her. I thought the same as you Minne on the potential partial liability for the marina. We'll see where things turn out with the insurance. In the end - at least no one was hurt. And with that much carnage to the docks and that many boats - I don't feel like there was anything more I could have done. It was what it was.

Also, I'd been losing interest in the lake sailing anyway (especially with the shrinking lake) and had been thinking of moving on to an ocean boat to keep on the coast. So, that opportunity is now here. And I'm excited about it.

We'll continue to sail "Fiasco" on the lake - and will still have plenty of sailing fun.

So, it's all good. It's just that, after 5 years of sailing her, I found out I had much more of a tie to that crappy old boat than I thought. She was pretty damn cool.

(PS - I'm going to mount the cleat on a plaque with an inscription extolling the many adventures of the _S/V Smacktanic_. I'll post photos when it's done.)


----------



## zz4gta

First, very sorry for your loss. I holed my boat racing once and it tore me up. It was the one thing on the boat that was in good condition. 

Second, I can't believe anyone would have a dock in 100' of water. 25' seems completely unreal. Most places on the bay are lucky to get 7'. If a boat sinks at a slip on the Ches bay, it's usually only a foot lower than when it's floating. 

Third, now is a good time to upgrade to the Columbia 32 offshore boat.


----------



## captflood

GREETINGS EARTHLINGS. Oh so sorry to get that news Smackdaddy . Chance of salvage do you know a diver or local dive club ? Best of Luck Saddened for you hope you get back on the OGGIN soon . As Always GO SAFE


----------



## smackdaddy

Thanks flood. 100' is a pretty deep, cold dive with low visibility in this lake. I don't see salvage happening. Although I did have a bottle of rum in the ice box. So I might get motivated.

And zz, you're right about the depth. It's crazy. Down around Houston and Corpus you're only looking at 6-8 feet in the slip. Having several boats _completely disappear_ under the slips was a little mind-blowing.


----------



## Minnewaska

No environmental requirement to recover it? I know some lakes that fine you by the day for anything that had fuel in it.

I wonder if your liability coverage would pay to go get it to avoid that.


----------



## smackdaddy

We don't know about those issues yet. We'll find out I suppose. It only had a small 4hp outboard (with no gas in its integral tank) - and nothing much in the holding tank either. So no chemicals or nastiness to speak of. It was a pretty clean boat in that regard.


----------



## RainDog

smackdaddy said:


> Although I did have a bottle of rum in the ice box.


Don't let work get out on the scuba forums or you rum is gone for sure.


----------



## Minnewaska

One lake I'm familiar with wouldn't care if it had a mouse on a wheel, they would make you go get it.

Only trying to think of an angle that might get your liability policy to cover you. Then go after the marina, who negligently left the bumper off (many boats survived) to repair her or buy you out.


----------



## RainDog

Minnewaska said:


> One lake I'm familiar with wouldn't care if it had a mouse on a wheel, they would make you go get it.


This is Texas. The rule here is probably you can just leave it is long as it is < 1000 gallons. Even then it is only required because this is our drinking water supply.


----------



## smackdaddy

Minnewaska said:


> One lake I'm familiar with wouldn't care if it had a mouse on a wheel, they would make you go get it.
> 
> Only trying to think of an angle that might get your liability policy to cover you. Then go after the marina, who negligently left the bumper off (many boats survived) to repair her or buy you out.


I hear you.


----------



## RTB

Damn, I just saw this. Sorry about your boat, smack. Come on down to Boot Key and hang out with some other Texans! There are four of us Texas boats moored side by side here, plus others around the mooring field. We'll dinghy over to Burdines and have some cheeseburgers, their awesome fries, and plenty of beer! The first round is on me, and I'll even pay for the burger.

I hear Cruisingdad is on his way too. It could be quite a bash!

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/brogdon/

Ralph


----------



## smackdaddy

Thanks Ralph. That would be a freakin' blast hanging out with you guys again.

No worries on the boat. I'll be back!


----------



## MedSailor

Smack,

You realize that now that you've sunk a boat, we have to start a separate thread about the sinking of the yacht. 

In this thread Sailnet at large will:

1: Monday morning quarterback the whole thing 
2: Everyone will say how it never would have happened to them
3: Vilify you for your negligence 
4: Take no considerations of your feelings in your time of loss
5: Eventually ban you from the SailNet for defending yourself. 

It's nothing personal, it's just what we gotta do.  Now where's that new thread button? 

MedSailor


----------



## smackdaddy

MedSailor said:


> Smack,
> 
> You realize that now that you've sunk a boat, we have to start a separate thread about the sinking of the yacht.
> 
> In this thread Sailnet at large will:
> 
> 1: Monday morning quarterback the whole thing
> 2: Everyone will say how it never would have happened to them
> 3: Vilify you for your negligence
> 4: Take no considerations of your feelings in your time of loss
> 5: Eventually ban you from the SailNet for defending yourself.
> 
> It's nothing personal, it's just what we gotta do.  Now where's that new thread button?
> 
> MedSailor


Heh-heh. I completely understand. It is the way of things.

(PS: Here's a classic thread for just that purpose, the title of which pretty much sums it up: *Well my day really sucked. *)


----------



## downeast450

Very sad Smack! O'l mother nature strikes again! She should be recoverable even if it is just for salvage and the rum. I just got my tanks pressure checked. When do we start?

You know your invitation to sail downeast is a lifetime one! Right?

Keep smiling.

Down


----------



## smackdaddy

Heh-heh. Thanks Down. It actually would be a fun dive. Just dark and cold, I think. I did a lot of diving when I lived in the Solomon Islands. As you can imagine - the wrecks were incredible in Iron Bottom Sound. The deepest I ever went was 45 meters, and got a bit narced on the way down. But the visibility was awesome and the water was nice and warm. 30 meters in this lake would be a whole other thing.

Thanks for invite dude. I appreciate it.


----------



## RainDog

I did my advanced open water class on travis and went to 110 feet for our deep dive. It was pretty surreal down there. Your rum will definitely be chilled.

The instructor had us try to do simple math problem while we were down there on a slate. Simple problems like 27 + 62. I am a math boy, but in the 60 seconds he gave us I could not do a single one. He point was "you are stupid at that depth". Good lesson I will never forget.

He was a great instructor.


----------



## smackdaddy

RainDog said:


> I did my advanced open water class on travis and went to 110 feet for our deep dive. It was pretty surreal down there. Your rum will definitely be chilled.
> 
> The instructor had us try to do simple math problem while we were down there on a slate. Simple problems like 27 + 62. I am a math boy, but in the 60 seconds he gave us I could not do a single one. He point was "you are stupid at that depth". Good lesson I will never forget.
> 
> He was a great instructor.


Dude, I'm stupid up here! What's the visibility that deep?


----------



## RainDog

It is actually pretty clear down there. I think because there is no oxygen. It is pitch black, but with the flashlight you can see at least 20 feet IIRC.


----------



## downeast450

I have been that deep with lights and it is not a picnic. If you have a confirmed location and just need to attach a cable it wouldn't be a big deal. If you have to spend time at depth looking for the boat that is a different dive. A good sonar should be able to "see" your boat. Good luck.

Down


----------



## GeorgeB

Smack, I’m really sorry to hear of the loss of your beloved Smacktanic. If there is any consolation, without breast cleats on the dock or mid-ship cleats on your boat, there was nothing that really could be done for your boat (or everybody else’s for that matter) in those tight slips and exposure. I hope your liability insurance will cover the claims from the Marina and the governing entity of Canyon Lake. If it is any consolation, you are welcome on-board Freya anytime if your travels ever take you to the San Francisco Bay area. (The America’s Cup 72’s are a sight to behold even on practice days.) And, lil’ Freya will be down in Mexico/SOC in 2016 (just saying).


----------



## Silvio

Aint worth diving unless there is something really worth going after. My deepest dive is 150' at Forty Fathom Grotto in Florida. Did it as a divemaster candidate with the instructor. Found a nice wrist mounted compass on the mound at the bottom. Definitely narced and loopy. Long time to come back up, lots of just hanging out breathing. 

Guess I'm saying that it all depends on the rum. How 'bout it Smack, is that bottle a really good one?


----------



## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> Smack, I'm really sorry to hear of the loss of your beloved Smacktanic. If there is any consolation, without breast cleats on the dock or mid-ship cleats on your boat, there was nothing that really could be done for your boat (or everybody else's for that matter) in those tight slips and exposure. I hope your liability insurance will cover the claims from the Marina and the governing entity of Canyon Lake. If it is any consolation, you are welcome on-board Freya anytime if your travels ever take you to the San Francisco Bay area. (The America's Cup 72's are a sight to behold even on practice days.) And, lil' Freya will be down in Mexico/SOC in 2016 (just saying).


Thanks George. That means a lot coming from you. After seeing the destruction down there I was pretty comfortable that there was very little that could have been done differently prior to the windstorm (which was WAY more violent than had been predicted). But - there's always that nagging feeling.

My guess for why we went to the bottom when some of the other Catalinas didn't is the outboard well. With the angle of the wind, those waves would have been slamming almost directly into her stern. And since she was pinned in the slip the force and volume of the water would have been huge. So my guess is that the water pushed up through the opening in the transom, up through the lazarette, and into the cockpit filling it and leaking down into the cabin. Then, with the water pouring in at the bow from the shorn-off stem it just got worse and worse as the boat hobby-horsed - heavy both forward and aft. Again - just a guess.

Anyway I really appreciate yours and everyone else's invites to sail. It's pretty damn cool knowing people have your back.


----------



## smackdaddy

Silvio said:


> Aint worth diving unless there is something really worth going after. My deepest dive is 150' at Forty Fathom Grotto in Florida. Did it as a divemaster candidate with the instructor. Found a nice wrist mounted compass on the mound at the bottom. Definitely narced and loopy. Long time to come back up, lots of just hanging out breathing.
> 
> Guess I'm saying that it all depends on the rum. How 'bout it Smack, is that bottle a really good one?


No way! I think it was Sailor Jerry's or something.

I will admit that I did dampen the shock that evening with a double scotch:


----------



## djodenda

And you are, of course, welcome to sail with me, and I expect the other Sailnetters on E dock in Edmonds.

I


----------



## Minnewaska

Macallan 18, all it takes to get over the loss. Let me know when you're next in RI. Launch in 4 weeks. Shakedown end of April.


----------



## Lou452

Tim Jarvis made it. The re-enactment of Ernest Shackleton's voyage and the hike Rebecca Brice Monday Feb,11 the world today abc news . Send him a hat ? Good day, Lou


----------



## smackdaddy

Lou452 said:


> Tim Jarvis made it. The re-enactment of Ernest Shackleton's voyage and the hike Rebecca Brice Monday Feb,11 the world today abc news . Send him a hat ? Good day, Lou


Hell yeah I'll send him a hat!! What's his address?


----------



## Lou452

I do not know. Tim Jarvis holds both Austrailan and UK citizenship. You can find more about him if you shearch the net. This is not the first push it to the limit journey for him. I have seen him in the news before. It just takes a lot to get more than a yawn out of folks today. I do not think people understand how hard some of the amazing things done are to do. Kind regards, Lou


----------



## smackdaddy

Well, my offer on a particular boat was accepted. Survey scheduled for the 20th.

If everything checks out - I and my boys might be roaming the ocean soon, enjoying one BFS after another. Man, I sure hope so.

Stay frosty my friends.


----------



## PaulinVictoria

Whatcha getting Smacky?


----------



## MedSailor

PaulinVictoria said:


> Whatcha getting Smacky?


He finally saw the light. He's getting a Formosa 41.

MedSailor


----------



## Minnewaska

"a particular boat" ? 

What kind of non-sense is this? What is it Smack?? 

Hey, good luck on the survey. Hope she works out.


----------



## RTB

smackdaddy said:


> Well, my offer on a particular boat was accepted. Survey scheduled for the 20th.
> 
> If everything checks out - I and my boys might be roaming the ocean soon, enjoying one BFS after another. Man, I sure hope so.
> 
> Stay frosty my friends.


That's great news! All the best to you and the boys. We're in Nassau now, slowly working our way to the Exumas. Come on down! Kaliks on my boat...

Ralph


----------



## glassdad

Come on Smack. You can't just leave us hanging! What did you get??


----------



## smackdaddy

Hot chicks on a boat:










KATIE & JESSIE | - Aboard Lovely Louise -

What's not to love?

Great blog - and a BFS nod.


----------



## Minnewaska

glassdad said:


> Come on Smack. You can't just leave us hanging! What did you get??





smackdaddy said:


> Hot chicks on a boat:
> 
> ..........


That's my man.


----------



## smackdaddy

Heh-heh.


----------



## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> Well, my offer on a particular boat was accepted. Survey scheduled for the 20th.
> 
> .


Soooo........ The 20th of what? May? That day has come and gone? What happened?

MedSailor


----------



## smackdaddy

It's never good luck to talk about it until it's done done done. I wired the funds on Friday and stuffed the paperwork into a FedEx pouch. Should have final confirmation today.


----------



## krisscross

If your new boat comes with these two chicks, I would deliver the funds personally...


----------



## smackdaddy

The Smack Boys Have a New Yacht:










Smack Yacht : 1989 Hunter Legend 40

Stay tuned for the good, the bad, and the gorgeous.

Booyah!!!


----------



## Ajax_MD

Boy, you don't screw around. Where are you keeping her?


----------



## smackdaddy

I'll eventually keep her in Corpus. For this season, though, she'll stay in the Kemah area. I need to get her feel and learn her systems - while the boys do the same.

Our goal is to race in the Harvest Moon Regatta in October. We'll see.


----------



## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> The Smack Boys Have a New Yacht:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smack Yacht : 1989 Hunter Legend 40
> 
> Stay tuned for the good, the bad, and the gorgeous.
> 
> Booyah!!!


Now THIS is why I'm glad the like button is back! 

MedSailor


----------



## jackdale




----------



## finding41

Sweet!
You and the boys will love it!
Opens up a whole lot of new cruising opportunity. 
Congrats.


----------



## T37SOLARE

Congrats Smack! 

Glad to see you & the boys back on the water!


----------



## bobmcgov

Yay! Just ... yay.


----------



## PaulinVictoria

Sweet, congrats on the new hole in the water.


----------



## blt2ski

congrats on the new smacktanic! looks a bit nicer than the old one. I personally think you should sail her up here to a meastro roundezvous.......July at port ludlow usually! need to get the date, if you start last week, you might make around thru the canal, then up the left coast........OR, you could use one of them silver birds to get here!

too bad you did not get a jeanneau....could of used your craziness on the owner forum....besides, I know a great joke to say to people when they want to know what kind of boat I have! I've even hooked fellow jeanneau owners with it!LOLOLOL

Marty


----------



## CatMan22

Nice, I'd like to have been a fly on the wall watching the smile on your face when you realized "this is the one." When I lived in Texas we'd go to the Flying Dutchman in Kemah, good place to get your celebration on after sailing.


----------



## Minnewaska

The Smack is Back. Love it.

Congratulations, Smack. Enjoy every minute.


----------



## Ajax_MD

smackdaddy said:


> I'll eventually keep her in Corpus. For this season, though, she'll stay in the Kemah area. I need to get her feel and learn her systems - while the boys do the same.
> 
> Our goal is to race in the Harvest Moon Regatta in October. We'll see.


In the lake? Is there enough water? Are your slips still hanging out, exposed?


----------



## itsaboat

Congrats, Smack!


----------



## Rhapsody-NS27

Congratulations on the new boat. She's a beauty!


----------



## krisscross

Awesome boat, Smack! I'm envious and jealous! 
Let the good times roll!


----------



## smackdaddy

Thanks everyone. She's a great boat.



BubbleheadMd said:


> In the lake? Is there enough water? Are your slips still hanging out, exposed?


No - this is our coastal boat. She's in Kemah on Galveston Bay. The entire planet is now our playground.


----------



## Ajax_MD

Freaking awesome. Enjoy, my friend.


----------



## cruisingdream

Congrats, When you get the rail in the water on that boat you'll know you are moving.

p.s. wet side deck on that era hunter usually indicates the port lights need resealing


----------



## glassdad

Congrats on the new YACHT! When is the first BFS?


----------



## smackdaddy

cruisingdream said:


> Congrats, When you get the rail in the water on that boat you'll know you are moving.
> 
> p.s. wet side deck on that era hunter usually indicates the port lights need resealing


Thanks dream. Actually the wet area is on the foredeck, just forward of the v-berth hatch. The side decks were nice and dry. The boat was raced for a while and there were a couple impact points where someone probably dropped the spin pole which likely allowed some moisture in - so we'll get it all fixed up.

The first order of business is new standing rigging. Ouch! I so wish I was in Florida so Knothead could do it for me. Bummer.


----------



## smackdaddy

BTW - I added a good deal more detail to the post regarding how I budgeted and calculated things as I went through the shopping and buying process. Hopefully it'll help those newbs who wonder how to approach the whole thing:

Smack Yacht : With More Detail on The Process


----------



## avenger79

congrats on a beautiful new yacht. Looks great.


----------



## JSL3

Contrats! So glad to see you back out on the water.


----------



## UncleJim

Contrats Smak, we just had our '83 H34' out for the first time and what a ride. You'll love that 40.


----------



## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> The first order of business is new standing rigging. Ouch! I so wish I was in Florida so Knothead could do it for me. Bummer.


Great idea! Don't forget about the chain plates though. Pull and inspect, or better yet, since pulling is most of the labor, pull and replace.

Medsailor


----------



## SchockT

Congrats Smack! Quite a leap from a Cat 27! That era of Hunter is definitely better looking than some of the newer ones, and it looks like you got a pretty good deal on her.


----------



## smackdaddy

Dear Mr. Perry,

I just wanted to say thank you for your kind gift. We were so excited when we saw the box. The boys asked me, "Who's Robert Perry?". I told them that you are a world famous yacht designer who had been very kind to us. We tore open the box and...










...ahm, wow, the HTFU hat and a jar of Vegemite! Let's give her a go boys!










Smells a little off. Well, down the hatch-o!










Oh good lord!










Quinn says he doesn't care if you're a "world famous yacht designer" - he hates your guts.

Jesse kind of likes it.


----------



## dvuyxx

Oy! Vegemite. I tried it once. Once!


----------



## Faster

Don't know how I missed this, Smack, but congrats.. I've always said those were good, solid and good value boats, along with the other Legend series. This looks like a good one and for a good price too.

But what happened to 'TWO footitis???


----------



## smackdaddy

Faster said:


> Don't know how I missed this, Smack, but congrats.. I've always said those were good, solid and good value boats, along with the other Legend series. This looks like a good one and for a good price too.
> 
> But what happened to 'TWO footitis???


Two, thirteen - it's all the same.

BTW - was that you spoutin' off in that rescue thread about boneheads buying '40'ers as their first ride? What are you implying, pal?


----------



## Faster

smackdaddy said:


> Two, thirteen - it's all the same.
> 
> BTW - was that you spoutin' off in that rescue thread about boneheads buying '40'ers as their first ride? What are you implying, pal?


Don't believe I used the word 'bonehead'..... and it's not your first ride .. Sorry to disappoint but I wasn't even thinking of you at the time...

Seriously, though.. in '92 we went from 28 to 40 feet too.. it's one hell of a step up in 'boat', and yours is a slightly bigger boat still. Do the boys get the aft cabin??


----------



## smackdaddy

Faster said:


> Don't believe I used the word 'bonehead'..... and it's not your first ride .. Sorry to disappoint but I wasn't even thinking of you at the time...
> 
> Seriously, though.. in '92 we went from 28 to 40 feet too.. it's one hell of a step up in 'boat', and yours is a slightly bigger boat still. Do the boys get the aft cabin??


I took the aft cabin on this last run. One boy took the v-berth and the other the settee. The A/C doesn't duct all the way back to the aft cabin - so the v-berth and salon are way cooler. Even so, the aft cabin was fine with the doors open and a fan pushing the cool air back there.

You're right though, this is one monstrous boat after that C27! It's kind of sobering.


----------



## aeventyr60

Maybe the Vegimite is a good pre departure anti seasick medication? get sick before you leave!


----------



## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> Dear Mr. Perry,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh good lord!


Oh Smack, nobody but Bob, Hartley, SimonV, the Wombat and me will get the joke but well played all the same!

The next thing they'll tell you is "you didn't spread it thin enough." Yeah, right! I heard that one a few times. If it's one molecule thick, it's still awful! Though..... after a few years of eating it spread nice and thin, it does grow on you, a bit like a yeast spore... I actually craved it once, in Tasmania, with a hangover, and it was quite the cure.

I love the photo of you and the boys. I can practically taste it all over again!

MedSailor


----------



## chall03

Sorry I missed this news Smack, big congrats, that looks like one heck of a boat. I am really pleased for you guys.

Great writeup on the process as well. 

Our boat was also launched in 1989, and we replace the standing rigging shortly after we purchased her in 2011. It was a chunk out of the wallet, but several thousand nautical miles( and a few BFS's) later I am happy to enter anchorages still finding the mast where I left it. 

Now if you run out of the Vegemite let me know and we can send some over  

My daughter has it on toast every morning. A quick easy dinner for kids is a couple of spoons tossed through spaghetti, and sprinkled with a bit of cheese.


----------



## FirstCandC

Man, that is an awesome boat!
And thanks for posting the transaction stuff.


----------



## smackdaddy

chall03 said:


> Sorry I missed this news Smack, big congrats, that looks like one heck of a boat. I am really pleased for you guys.
> 
> Great writeup on the process as well.
> 
> Our boat was also launched in 1989, and we replace the standing rigging shortly after we purchased her in 2011. It was a chunk out of the wallet, but several thousand nautical miles( and a few BFS's) later I am happy to enter anchorages still finding the mast where I left it.
> 
> Now if you run out of the Vegemite let me know and we can send some over
> 
> My daughter has it on toast every morning. A quick easy dinner for kids is a couple of spoons tossed through spaghetti, and sprinkled with a bit of cheese.


Your little daughter is way more manly than we are.

Where are the write-up for your sails dude? I'd love to see what you guys are doing.


----------



## CalebD

Congrats Steve!
Great write up on the process.
Now get out there and bfs; leave the vegemite at home.


----------



## zedboy

Smack did you really put a big ol lump of that on your tongue?!?!?!

(just looked at the picture more closely)

Dear god.

That's not what you're supposed to do.

Had marmite on toast once, spread thin. Wasn't bad. Haven't tried vegemite but my good friend Wallance in Jerusalem will for sure hook me up this summer if I'm man enuf...


----------



## smackdaddy

zedboy said:


> Smack did you really put a big ol lump of that on your tongue?!?!?!
> 
> (just looked at the picture more closely)
> 
> Dear god.
> 
> That's not what you're supposed to do.
> 
> Had marmite on toast once, spread thin. Wasn't bad. Haven't tried vegemite but my good friend Wallance in Jerusalem will for sure hook me up this summer if I'm man enuf...


Oh yeah, we all "chomped the lump".










Why waste all that hideous flavor by thinning it out over a cracker when you can go full-on?


----------



## BentSailor

smackdaddy said:


> Oh yeah, we all "chomped the lump".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why waste all that hideous flavor by thinning it out over a cracker when you can go full-on?


Remind me never to send you OJ concentrate 

I actually laughed out loud read what you & the boys did. I've never, *ever* done that and I don't intend to... and I've been eating the stuff all my life. Think of Vegemite as a _seasoning_. A terrible one that one should avoid at all costs, but if one *must* have it, go lighter than you would the salt & pepper 

Cheers on the photo of you & the boys.


----------



## smackdaddy

What's really funny is that the boys have punked all the other kids in our neighborhood - telling them it's an "exotic Australian food". They all had the same look on their faces.

Robert Perry is now hated by an entire enclave of gagging children.


----------



## BentSailor

smackdaddy said:


> What's really funny is that the boys have punked all the other kids in our neighborhood - telling them it's an "exotic Australian food". They all had the same look on their faces.


*laugh* That's a similar line we pull on all the US missionaries that come to our door. Being eager to ingratiate themselves, they *always* have some... and always regret it. The trick is to let them spread it on the toast themselves :laugher



smackdaddy said:


> Robert Perry is now hated by an entire enclave of children.


What's new?


----------



## chall03

smackdaddy said:


> Your little daughter is way more manly than we are.
> 
> Where are the write-up for your sails dude? I'd love to see what you guys are doing.


Alas, not much doing at the moment. We are back in Sydney and the boat is in refit mode. Doing a bit of sailing around Sydney still and helping with a few deliveries.


----------



## RTB

smackdaddy said:


> The Smack Boys Have a New Yacht:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smack Yacht : 1989 Hunter Legend 40
> 
> Stay tuned for the good, the bad, and the gorgeous.
> 
> Booyah!!!


Congrats, Steve! We just got back from the Bahamas 2 weeks ago, and are moving north so haven't been keeping up. I'm really happy for you and your boys. I hope we meet up again in the future! You guys take care on the water and have a blast!

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/brogdon/

Ralph


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey Ralph! Yeah, I've been following your blog. Looks like you guys are having a blast!

I'm very close to where you guys had your boat (just a few slips away). So definitely look me up if/when you get back to the Kemah area. The beers and BFS Boozies are definitely on me!


----------



## RTB

I'm kinda missing Kemah right now. This Florida weather is sucking pretty bad. 

I don't miss your drive to the boat. We did the drive from San Antonio to Kemah for 3 1/2 years, pretty much every other weekend. The payoff was getting to the boat and the Kemah area is awesome. 

Maybe we'll get back there eventually, and will look you up!

Ralph


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - when I actually read that you'd rather be in Kemah than Florida - I KNOW you're homesick! The drive does kind of suck. I'll probably move the boat to Corpus in a year or so - but right now, it works for us.

Come one across brother! You guys can teach me and the boys a hell of a lot!


----------



## smackdaddy

NewportNewbie just pulled down a sweet, FAST BFS! Go the Newp!



NewportNewbie said:


> Ok. So I did the Catalina turnaround in one day.
> 
> Got to the boat at 5am. Preped it and reached the harbor entrance at 6am.
> 
> View attachment 15017
> 
> 
> Motored over to Catalina. The boat cruised at 6.5 knots. Did the trip to Long point in 5 hours. Not bad. I think it's 28 miles from Newport Harbor to long point. On the way i saw more dolphins than i have ever seen at one time. They swam all around and under the boat. Jumping out of the water and swimming in the boat wake. Picked up a mooring there and swam, napped, and ate lunch there. Long point was an amazing place. Quiet, isolated, peaceful and gorgeous. It looked like a secluded Greek island. Amazing.
> View attachment 15014
> 
> View attachment 15015
> 
> View attachment 15016
> 
> 
> At 3pm we left Long point. We had about 12-14 knots I wind. Sea state was choppy 4 foot waves with whitecaps. Raised the main and unfurled the jib and we were off! I had my buddy checking speed and in GPS we instantly were at 8.5 knots. He had a garmin handheld, I had my iPhone and we had compasses and charts on board. Checking them all. His gps gave him instant speed data. My iPhone app shows am speed over a 2 minute period. We spent time trying to see how fast we could get the boat up to. On his gps that was 11.3 knots. On mine which is averaged over 2 minutes it was 10.5 knots. Not bad for a old IOR designed 30 footer!!! We sailed the entire way back pretty much on one reach. Total sail time for the return trip was 4 hours and 15 minutes. We would have been under 4 hours I the wind didn't die down the last 10 miles. Still for 28 miles that's an average of 8 knots. The last hour we were down in the 4s.
> 
> Yes it was a long day BUT it was a great day. No one was hurt. Boat wasn't damaged and lots of smiles.


----------



## smackdaddy

I love this time of year...when sailors start pulling down the big ones.

Another prime BFS from our own Tommays:



tommays said:


> Well we did some great sailing this week with only one day of needing the motor which is the best week of sailing luck i have ever had
> 
> It became apparent the weather was going to be crap on 7/25 and 7/26
> 
> As the crap weather and perfect timing of the flood tide home was setting up a sail home that may never be topped we went with it as 70 miles is a long day
> 
> We left Greenport at 6 am and had a nasty ride out to plum gut and after turning west the sled ride begin and the boat would just not go slower than 8 knots with regular surges to 12 knots and a peak speed of 13.2 knots
> 
> In a fair bit of great luck we on the mooring in Northport at 4:30 PM


That, my friends, is speed.


----------



## CharlieCobra

Smack, just got back from delivering a boat from the Sacramento river delta to Bellingham through a gale South of Cape Blanco. Unfortunately, it was a motor yacht so I won't post up the trip and vids here.


----------



## smackdaddy

CharlieCobra said:


> Smack, just got back from delivering a boat from the Sacramento river delta to Bellingham through a gale South of Cape Blanco. Unfortunately, it was a motor yacht so I won't post up the trip and vids here.


Dude, you're a Hall of Fame BFSer - you can post whatever you want in this thread. I'd love to see them!


----------



## smackdaddy

I just added the next installment for "The Smack Boys & Their Yacht" blog:

*How We Got To Hunter*










Enjoy.


----------



## RTB

Nice! I was just reading your BFS site this afternoon. We are at the Brunswick Landing Marina in Georgia currently. A Hunter 41 either side of us. Damn Hunters everywhere! :laugher

Ralph

Georgia on our minds | sailing away with R & B


----------



## chall03

Nice writeup Smack.
It's a nice boat. Period. 

Can I get 'Yappin' Chucklehead' on a BFS shirt???


----------



## downeast450

Thanks Smack!

An insightful piece. Valuable for lots of reasons.

Fair winds to you and your young men. Hope our courses cross.

Down


----------



## CharlieCobra

smackdaddy said:


> Dude, you're a Hall of Fame BFSer - you can post whatever you want in this thread. I'd love to see them!


Was going to post last night and realized I don't have a picture of the outside of the boat. Will take one today and post tonight.


----------



## Gregrosine

OK, We are real newbies. This is our first year sailing. We went on Lake Michigan. Wind was a steady 20 knots and gusting to 25 from the NW. Waves 3-4 feet. We had never been out in wind like that. We didn't have on our PFD's (stupid, next time we will). It was a "hold on instructional" sail. We went straight out heading west for one hour turned around and came back. Fun but it took a lot. There were two other boats out there and we thought they couldn't be moving as much as we were and then I saw the bottom paint on the others quite frequently and knew they had as much movement as we did. But we did it.


----------



## smackdaddy

Gregrosine said:


> OK, We are real newbies. This is our first year sailing. We went on Lake Michigan. Wind was a steady 20 knots and gusting to 25 from the NW. Waves 3-4 feet. We had never been out in wind like that. We didn't have on our PFD's (stupid, next time we will). It was a "hold on instructional" sail. We went straight out heading west for one hour turned around and came back. Fun but it took a lot. There were two other boats out there and we thought they couldn't be moving as much as we were and then I saw the bottom paint on the others quite frequently and knew they had as much movement as we did. But we did it.


Oh hell yeah!!










25 knots on that big ol' lake is no joke. I agree with you on the pfds - but well done dude!

What were you sailing?


----------



## GeorgeB

EYC's 2013 Second Half Opener on San Francisco Bay - After a little over three hours of racing over a 21 NM course, we missed first place by a mere 12 seconds on corrected time. The windy side of the course was 18 - 22 kts true and the final run down the Estuary 10-12 kts. Flew the #1 on all windward legs. Flew two different spinnakers with multiple gybes down the Oakland Estuary on the half ouncer. So not quite a BFS, but we had a good time anyways. Photo courtesy of H20Shots (yours truly in the back of the boat).


----------



## smackdaddy

Very nice GB!! That is one wicked main!

What's the seastate on blustery day like that? 4'-5'?


----------



## GeorgeB

Inside the Bay (south of the Bay Bridge) there isn't enough fetch to generate much more than chop. The wind under the fog bank in the background (Candlestick is on the left) funnels through the gaps in the hills making for localized windy conditions on the San Francisco side. By the time the wind gets to the Oakland side it "fans out" and drops velocity. Our second windward leg was here and we did have to "plow" through the left over chop which is a real speed killer.

We had a "Mr Toad's Wild Ride" earlier this year on the Point Bonita Race where we had 5' swells (but not much wind) outside the Golden Gate. We had 30kts of wind running through the Slot while flying the 1.5 oz "Cal" kite. The boat was marginally under control on that leg as well as the beat back up the slot to the finish. Would have been a BFS but no camera boat - as they say "Pics or it didn't happen".

Azure sports Carbon UK Tapedrives for the main and both headsails. Here is a shot of us in the process of taking the #1 down (looks like we're doing hull speed here) and a nice shot of our stern graphic and a mini rooster tail. Old Cals rock!


----------



## smackdaddy

Impressive dude. Impressive.


----------



## CharlieCobra

*Ocean Alexander 50 delivery*

We drove down to Pittsburg, CA on the Sacramento river delta to get the boat.










After spending a day prepping, we rolled out on the tail end of a flood so we could catch the ebb through the Gate. Lot's of heavy traffic in the area and big bridges.










and










We got to San Fran after dark and shot the Gate on the ebb. A bit of a rough ride past the Onion Patch.










The trip was pretty uneventful until we got up by Cape Mendecino about sixty miles offshore where we hit 8-12 foot seas on the Port bow all the way to Cape Blanco.

South of Cape Blanco we hit a building Gale with some sets up to 15-20, always a crappy thing when you're going to windward.

This video is as we were running out of the Gale after about twelve hours of it.






This one is later.






Later, off the Oregon coast shortly after dawn.






We stopped for fuel twice, once in Bandon OR and once at Westport, WA.. We lost the Port engine off Cape Flattery when the raw water pump locked up and finished the trip on one engine in the fog surrounded by 20 knots ships blowing by virtually unseen. While radar is useful, it doesn't help when the boat is slewing around in a following, quartering sea leaving smears of tracks all over the screen.

Here's another vid.






Back in home waters:






Ah, life aboard a boat five days up the West Coast. I can think of worse ways to spend a week.


----------



## RainDog

Videos are all broken for me. When I click play, the player gives a "Video Not Found" error.


----------



## Minnewaska

smackdaddy said:


> Dude, you're a Hall of Fame BFSer - you can post whatever you want in this thread. I'd love to see them!


I agree with the sentiment toward CC, he's a legend. But, a stinkpot getting a BFS? That's brand dilution. Bad idea. CC tried to warn you.

And you owe me a laptop. I vomit all over mine when I saw that enormous downrigged, flybridged, chlorox bottle pop up on my screen. CC has probably been commissioned to install a stripper pole.


----------



## CharlieCobra

RainDog said:


> Videos are all broken for me. When I click play, the player gives a "Video Not Found" error.


Hmm, will have to put them on youtube and repost.


----------



## smackdaddy

Minnewaska said:


> I agree with the sentiment toward CC, he's a legend. But, a stinkpot getting a BFS? That's brand dilution. Bad idea. CC tried to warn you.
> 
> And you owe me a laptop. I vomit all over mine when I saw that enormous downrigged, flybridged, chlorox bottle pop up on my screen. CC has probably been commissioned to install a stripper pole.


Who said the mighty BFS brand sanctioned it? There has been no coveted BFS-certified stamp of approval, my friend.

I just love stories of being on a boat at sea - especially if there's a gale involved.

That said, that is one Big Freakin' Stinkpot.


----------



## Minnewaska

I feel better.


----------



## smackdaddy

Good. Anyway, that's why I prefer sailboats...stripper poles come standard.

Have I posted a pic of my new auto-inflate pasties?


----------



## smackdaddy

CharlieCobra said:


> Hmm, will have to put them on youtube and repost.


It's just something screwed up in your links CC. Here's all the photos and vids:

Ocean Alexander 50 Delivery Photos by CharlieCobra03 | Photobucket


----------



## Minnewaska

smackdaddy said:


> Good. Anyway, that's why I prefer sailboats...stripper poles come standard.
> 
> Have I posted a pic of my new auto-inflate pasties?


You know, you're right. I have one on each side of the salon. Misread as hand holds. It's the Brazilian women's beach volleyball players that are not standard. If stinkpots came with those, I'd be listening.

https://www.facebook.com/Brazil.Women.Beach.Volleyball.Team


----------



## CharlieCobra

smackdaddy said:


> It's just something screwed up in your links CC. Here's all the photos and vids:
> 
> Ocean Alexander 50 Delivery Photos by CharlieCobra03 | Photobucket


Whatever software sailnet changed to is screwed up. I had to manually edit every link myself.


----------



## jasenj1

My first BFS.

I've been crewing on a Cal 33-2 this summer. Just local beer can races for the spring and summer series. I've sailed maybe a dozen times with this boat and crew. (I've been crewing on another boat for three years.)

Saturday (Aug 3rd) the owner chose to participate in the Admiral's Cup near the mouth of the York River in VA. The wind at the start was around 10 kts. We had the #1 genoa up. For this race I worked the pit - main sheet, traveler, outhaul, vang, etc.; usually I grind the jib sheets, but today the owner put me in the pit.

The start was a bit disorganized. We're used to tightly run races with horns being sounded when they should and people lining up for competitive starts. For this start, the horns were not at the right times and only one other boat hit the line at the start. We started at the committee boat end and asked if it was really our start as we went by. 

The race course was a triangle with each leg being about 2 miles. Full race was two laps around. As we were sailing due east on a reach toward the first mark, I noticed the sky turning deep purple behind us off to the west.

We rounded the first mark and started beating toward the second, southernmost mark. The purple got closer. We rounded the second mark and headed north back to the start mark on port tack. The purple got closer and the rain started spitting. I began to hear low rumbling distant thunder. The RC called that the course was shortened to one lap.

Not far into this third leg, the squall line hit. It went from a normal breeze, to a smattering of rain, to pouring with 20+ knot winds in a couple minutes. We heeled over pretty far and started riding it out. On went the rain gear.

The wind continued to build, the rain got heavier, and lightning started striking all around. My head was down dumping the traveler and then pulling it back up in response to the gusts and orders from the skipper - I wasn't paying attention to what was going on outside my bubble. 

Finally the skipper decided to reef the main - we still had the #1 up. The rain, wind, and thunder were now to the point where we had to yell at the person next to us to be heard. We got the reef in safely. We were still way overpowered (IMHO). The deck stayed heeled over very steeply - I stood on the side of the companionway entrance. 

Fortunately, the water was relatively calm. The storm came in from the west and there was no room for the seas to build. So we weren't tossed about on deck.

The skipper finally ordered to drop the genoa. We pointed up a bit and the genoa started flogging like crazy. I popped the halyard and yelled to the foredeck to pull down the sail. "What!?" The foredeck guy didn't quite understand what he was expected to do. The genoa continued to flap itself to pieces. The skipper went flying past me up to the foredeck to pull down the genny.

Somewhere in here we missed the finish line. I think the line was close to perpendicular to the wind and as we approached on a reach we were pushed down too far to make it inside the mark. I'm told we were within a boat-length or two of hitting the mark when the skipper gave up. (I had my head down managing the traveler & mainsheet and trying to stay on the boat.)

Then it was time to drop the main - in pouring down rain, lightning and still very heavy wind. That didn't go too badly. No chance of flaking it properly, we were just happy to get it down and sail ties put on.

Once all the sails were down, we all sat in the cockpit watching the lightning and getting rained on. I finally noticed the steep, short waves the storm had kicked up. Like a boat wake, but stretched out into the distance.

It was certainly not an off-shore, monster wave BFS. But the squall was extremely intense. The skipper said he saw 40 kts. on the wind meter. The front blew past and things calmed down behind it. I suspect we were in survival mode for no more than half an hour. But with the boat being constantly knocked down, lightning flashing and crashing all around, and the torrential rain, it was plenty enough for me.

No one went overboard, and the only damage I know of was the reinforcement on the clew of the genoa came delaminated - the sail did not tear. We should have put life vests on. We went from "this is kinda tough" to "OMG! Don't let me die!" very quickly. 

Since nothing bad happened, it was a fun intense bit of sailing. It could have easily gone the other way.

- Jasen.


----------



## smackdaddy

jasenj1 said:


> My first BFS.
> 
> We went from "this is kinda tough" to "OMG! Don't let me die!" very quickly.
> 
> Since nothing bad happened, it was a fun intense bit of sailing. It could have easily gone the other way.
> 
> - Jasen.


This is PRECISELY what a BFS is all about.










Well done dude!


----------



## gamayun

Alright, so now I know what the BFS stamp of approval is all about. It's going to take a while to read through these posts, but this should be fun in a 'glad-I-wasn't-there' kind of way.


----------



## smackdaddy

Fellow BFSers...I give you the _S/V Dawn Treader_!






Thanks to our buddy Tony for giving us a hand. It was a freakin' blast!


----------



## abrahamx

Thanks for calling me a moron ******!


----------



## smackdaddy

abrahamx said:


> Thanks for calling me a moron ******!


I don't remember calling you a "moron ******". I'm not sure I've ever called _anyone_ that. But it is creative.


----------



## RTB

smackdaddy said:


> Fellow BFSers...I give you the _S/V Dawn Treader_!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to our buddy Tony for giving us a hand. It was a freakin' blast!


The helmsman looks pretty comfortable in the video! Congrats man! Looks like you are now crew, Steve. I hope you were tethered? MOB drills yet?

Ralph


----------



## smackdaddy

Thanks Ralph!

Yeah, both boys are very comfortable at the helm - and I love watching them sail. Really makes me proud. I wasn't tethered - but I had my inflatable on. I always wear it, because I always make them wear theirs. Fair's fair.

We practiced MOB in the C27. But not yet on this boat. This was basically our shakedown. We'll start working on those drills soon though.


----------



## chall03

smackdaddy said:


> Fellow BFSers...I give you the _S/V Dawn Treader_!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to our buddy Tony for giving us a hand. It was a freakin' blast!


Nice! Smack Looks like a hoot to sail. What was that in?? About 15-20 knots??


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey Chall! It was actually 10-12 for the most part. When the front edge of that squall in the background started moving in we might have gotten to 15 or a bit over, but I took us in before it really got on us. With this being our first sail on her I didn't want to push it. There will be plenty of time for that.

That said, we got 7.4 knots SOG in about 12 knots of wind. And she sails so smoothly - it's really awesome. I love this boat.


----------



## smackdaddy

Here's the next installment of "The Smack Boys and Their Yacht":

*The Inspection and Survey*










So, I've walked you through how we got to Hunter, what our budget was...and the logic behind it. I also walked you through the offer, and the haggling, with me and the seller settling on a price of $46K against a $55K asking price. We entered into a contract at that point, and I started looking for a surveyor.

But hold up, there was one important step prior to the contract...or even the offer. And that was The Inspection...

*MORE*


----------



## chall03

Again great writeup Smack. 

Agree completely with you about blisters.


----------



## sailjunkie

Jan de Groot is based out of Vancouver; and I knew him when I worked as a broker. He really thought that blisters were overrated.

We knew our boat has blisters when we bought it. Our surveyor didn't feel there was a problem and thought repair money would be better spent on boat toys. Happy to oblige him! 

Nice boat, Smack!


----------



## smackdaddy

Thanks fellas.


----------



## weinie

Awesome post... Can't wait to read about the cash Vesuvius!


----------



## Jiminri

Hey Smack,
Great post, thanks for walking us through more of your journey in acquiring the yacht. Seems to me you were successful in the end because you knew what you wanted, were persistent, knew what to look for (and look out for) and had realistic expectations. 

In reading the boat buying threads on SN, some potential buyers have no real idea of what they want in a boat and what will make them happy. No real way to get around looking at a lot of boats in that case. (Sailing lots helps too.) Other potential buyers, however, come across as having unrealistic expectations. They want to find a cheap, old boat in pristine, NIB condition. Those boats may exist, but I'm guessing they are rare as hens teeth. Used boats are....well, used! Need to avoid the abused boats, the overpriced boats, and the worn out boats (especially in this market). But any used boat will have some, shall we say "patina"? You found a great boat for a great price, even though it was not in perfect shape. I'd say your post helps the wannabe boat owners out there understand that fact.

Anyway, I really like your yacht. Ya done good. Hope you and the smack boys have many adventures and a create lifetime of memories.


----------



## smackdaddy

Jiminri said:


> Hey Smack,
> Great post, thanks for walking us through more of your journey in acquiring the yacht. Seems to me you were successful in the end because you knew what you wanted, were persistent, knew what to look for (and look out for) and had realistic expectations.
> 
> In reading the boat buying threads on SN, some potential buyers have no real idea of what they want in a boat and what will make them happy. No real way to get around looking at a lot of boats in that case. (Sailing lots helps too.) Other potential buyers, however, come across as having unrealistic expectations. They want to find a cheap, old boat in pristine, NIB condition. Those boats may exist, but I'm guessing they are rare as hens teeth. Used boats are....well, used! Need to avoid the abused boats, the overpriced boats, and the worn out boats (especially in this market). But any used boat will have some, shall we say "patina"? You found a great boat for a great price, even though it was not in perfect shape. I'd say your post helps the wannabe boat owners out there understand that fact.
> 
> Anyway, I really like your yacht. Ya done good. Hope you and the smack boys have many adventures and a create lifetime of memories.


Thanks Jimi. I think you nailed it. I didn't need perfection...I just needed the boat I wanted in the best shape and for the best price I could find it.

I really do hope this blog helps those potential buyers know better how to go about this. There's still lots to come in terms of the improving, fixing, paying, and paying, and paying, etc.

BUT, I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE BIG FREAKIN' SALING PART!!!!!


----------



## zedboy

smackdaddy said:


> BUT, I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE BIG FREAKIN' SALING PART!!!!!


Speaking of, any big plans?

I bet your boys are stoked


----------



## smackdaddy

zedboy said:


> Speaking of, any big plans?
> 
> I bet your boys are stoked


Well, yeah...I'll go ahead and let the monkey out of the suitcase...

Our goal is to, over the next 4 years (primarily the summers), progressively sail the boat down to the British Virgin Islands.

I'll start a new thread on this soon to get some help planning it - but our first big jump will be sometime next summer. We'll sail across the Gulf to Tampa. We'll leave the boat there and fly back and forth for a season of cruises around the FLA area...then we'll start moving her south at a very relaxed pace each season, continuing to leave the boat in each place.

Once we get down to the BVIs, my oldest will be nearing college-age, so we'll all decide what to do next. Maybe up the East Coast. Maybe somewhere else. Who knows?

That's our BFS...God-willing. And we can't wait.


----------



## zedboy

smackdaddy said:


> Our goal is to, over the next 4 years (primarily the summers), progressively sail the boat down to the British Virgin Islands.


Wow. Frikken awesome.

When I first got the old boat, now 3 summers ago (and in part on your rec's on sailing with little kids) my goal was to sail to Georgina Island with the kids, tie up for the night and stay in one of the cottages. It's no more than 4 miles.

I made it over there once or twice sailing with my (HS or college-age) students, never with the kids  their sailing attention span is maybe 45 minutes, after that they want to anchor and jump in, or drive the boat in circles, or ... oh well.

New goal: Cyprus.


----------



## jimgo

That sounds like an amazing adventure, and one I'm sure they will look back on for the rest of their lives. What an awesome way to bond with them! Thanks for letting us be part of it, too, even if it is vicarious.


----------



## mstern

smackdaddy said:


> Well, yeah...I'll go ahead and let the monkey out of the suitcase...
> 
> Our goal is to, over the next 4 years (primarily the summers), progressively sail the boat down to the British Virgin Islands.
> 
> I'll start a new thread on this soon to get some help planning it - but our first big jump will be sometime next summer. We'll sail across the Gulf to Tampa. We'll leave the boat there and fly back and forth for a season of cruises around the FLA area...then we'll start moving her south at a very relaxed pace each season, continuing to leave the boat in each place.
> 
> Once we get down to the BVIs, my oldest will be nearing college-age, so we'll all decide what to do next. Maybe up the East Cost. Maybe somewhere else. Who knows?
> 
> That's our BFS...God-willing. And we can't wait.


Smacktastic. Both the write up and the plan. You go boy(s).


----------



## Martinjf

*Re: Big Freakin' Sails - Thanks for your write up.*

I started sailing many years ago in dinghies, did a lot of round the cans racing in dinghies, various IOR boats and some cruisers; I even mixed in a bit of offshore work. I owned and sailed a C30 for 5 years on Long Island Sound and have chartered a few times. I am now at a point in my life when I want to get back into sailing and have been wondering what kind of boat to buy. I have to admit that when I owned the C30 I always lusted after a Pacific Seacraft 37 and for that intangible feeling that it could take me anywhere anytime.

As part of the buy a boat exercise I have been reading the forums and doing some sailing. I started out by looking at various bluewater boats but have been gradually coming to the conclusion that I can do all the sailing I want in a larger, newer production boat.

Your well written stories reinforced my evolving view, thanks for your non-chucklehead approach, great reading keep it up.


----------



## ccriders

*Re: Big Freakin' Sails - Thanks for your write up.*



Martinjf said:


> I always lusted after a...for that intangible feeling that it could take me anywhere anytime.


And there you have it. This is way we don't rent boats and suffer all the $$$s to own a boat.


----------



## smackdaddy

*Re: Big Freakin' Sails - Thanks for your write up.*



Martinjf said:


> I started sailing many years ago in dinghies, did a lot of round the cans racing in dinghies, various IOR boats and some cruisers; I even mixed in a bit of offshore work. I owned and sailed a C30 for 5 years on Long Island Sound and have chartered a few times. I am now at a point in my life when I want to get back into sailing and have been wondering what kind of boat to buy. I have to admit that when I owned the C30 I always lusted after a Pacific Seacraft 37 and for that intangible feeling that it could take me anywhere anytime.
> 
> As part of the buy a boat exercise I have been reading the forums and doing some sailing. I started out by looking at various bluewater boats but have been gradually coming to the conclusion that I can do all the sailing I want in a larger, newer production boat.
> 
> Your well written stories reinforced my evolving view, thanks for your non-chucklehead approach, great reading keep it up.


Thanks dude. That's really great to hear. You sound a lot like me in terms of your sailing background. And YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT about "that feeling". Just going from a lake to the ocean in our new H40 - and that feeling that we can, literally, go anywhere in the world once we clear the jetties is AN AMAZING feeling. We can't wait.

BTW - I did an offshore race in a Pacific Seacraft 37.

*HERE*

Great boat that took off on a circ right after the race. The owner was out for almost 2 years - went everywhere. So, yeah, it's a go anywhere boat. But I still like my H40 more. We'll see where she takes us.


----------



## smackdaddy

An AWESOME BFS by BarryL:



BarryL said:


> Hey,
> 
> As some of you know, I purchased a 2002 C&C 110. The boat was in Mystic CT, I am in Mt. Sinai, NY. Today was the day to sail the boat the 55nm back home.
> 
> I've been following the weather forecast all week and each day was roughly the same: NE wind 15-20. This is good for me because the trip is SW. On Thursday the Saturday forecast was for 10-15 from the NE. On Friday the Saturday forecast was for more wind, 10-15 with gusts up to 20. Then, this morning, the forecast changed again: small craft advisories, winds 15-20 with gusts up to 30. Oh boy, it's going to be a spirited sail.
> 
> We (my wife and my two younger kids: daughter 16 and son 12) backed out of the slip around 9:30 and motored down the long channel and into Fishers Island Sound. In the sound I unrolled the headsail and we motor sailed towards home. The weather was pretty nice, temperature in the lwo to mid 60's, clearing sky with sun coming out, and oh yeah, lots of wind.
> 
> With the headsail up we motor sailed at around 7 kts. Since this was a delivery and not a pleasure sail I wanted to get home as quickly as possible. With the engine at cruising speed and the sail up we moved smoothly and quickly through the water. The wind continued to build and whitecaps were everywhere.
> 
> Around noon I put the engine in neutral and noticed the speed didn't drop at all. So I shut the engine down and enjoyed the silence. Now, out in the wide open Long Island Sound the waves started to build. Since we were still down almost dead down wind, the waves allowed the boat to surf. I expected this boat to be fast, but I had no idea how fast. With 15 kts apparent wind we were sailing at 7-8 kts and surfing down waves at 8-9 kts. When the wind went up the speeds did too: We were sailing at over 10 kts consistently. On my O'day 35, the highest speed I ever saw was 10.1 kts, motorsailing with big following seas. The C&C was hitting 10.5, then 11, then 11.5, then 12.
> 
> As the day went on the wind just continued to increase. We would be sailing at 10 kts and see 20-25 kts apparent wind on the wind gauge. The true wind had to be over 30 kts. The waves were getting bigger and closer together. Surfing down them I saw 13 kts and then the highest I could every imagine: 14.6 kts! In a 36' sailboat. And the entire time the boat was easy to steer and quite manageable.
> 
> I was very impressed with how the boat handled the rough weather and the speed and ease at which we sailed. We arrived at Mt. Sinai before 5:00 just as the wind was at the peak. Furling the headsail was a challenge, especially with a new boat, but we managed.
> 
> The boat needs a good cleaning and some upgrades. I am looking forward to a lot of fun sailing and adding gear as I get more money.
> 
> Some shots from the trip are included, including the last 12 hours of weather from the Central Long Island sound weather buoy.
> 
> Barry


----------



## smackdaddy

Well, the boys and I are doing a 150-mile offshore delivery starting tomorrow evening (the skipper I usually crew for and his boat). Winds look good in our area of the Gulf. 15+ on a nice beam reach all the way back to Galveston.

Stay tuned.


----------



## CalebD

Have fun you guys!


----------



## CalebD

Just noted a funny statistic.
Not to be sadistic.

Smackdaddy: 11,000+ posts
Thanked: 33 times in 27 posts.

Calebd: 4,000+ posts
Thanked: 54 times in 48 posts

Rep power is meaningless as we have seen with Brenda.

You are still the Smackdaddy.
;-!)


----------



## zedboy

Have a blast Smackers, keep safe and take pix/vid....


----------



## smackdaddy

CalebD said:


> Just noted a funny statistic.
> Not to be sadistic.
> 
> Smackdaddy: 11,000+ posts
> Thanked: 33 times in 27 posts.
> 
> Calebd: 4,000+ posts
> Thanked: 54 times in 48 posts
> 
> Rep power is meaningless as we have seen with Brenda.
> 
> You are still the Smackdaddy.
> ;-!)


That's because you the man Caleb.


----------



## gamayun

Sounds like it's going to be a great adventure, smackdaddy! I'll be looking forward to hearing about the trip. Have fun 

Here's my BFS -- I did my first single hand sail last Saturday in a race from Berkeley to Vallejo (~20 miles) and absolutely LOVED it!! As a still-new sailor (first time skippering was less than 3 years ago), this was a huge mental bar to cross, although probably humdrum for so many others, so bear with me as I'm still beaming. It's also interesting how many people I've met who have no interest in single handed sailing, while it electrifies me to my core. Of course, I realized a few things along the way that added to this vertical learning curve that is sailing and found out how frustrating it is to have the winds die on an ebb tide while trying to go up river. Despite all that, few things compare to that experience that day on the water.


----------



## Lou452

Go men go have fun!


----------



## smackdaddy

It was HUGE! Write-up and vids coming soon.


----------



## smackdaddy

*The Smackboys 150-Mile Offshore Delivery*

This was the boys' first time off-shore. And it was freakin' EPIC! Some of the biggest conditions I've seen in all my racing. Everything from big swells, to seasickness, to 30-knot squalls, to dead calms, to playful dolphins.

Enjoy our adventure! We sure did!

*The Smackboys' Adventures*

(Pearson 365 Ketch. Port Aransas to Galveston. Winds 15-20 knots SSE, abating throughout Saturday night. Cold front expected Sunday afternoon. It came early.)


----------



## gamayun

That was epic. What memories your boys are going to have! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## RTB

Nice video, Steve. It's great to see you guys out there on the Gulf, getting some BFS experience.

The boys looked like they were having a blast most of the time. Hey, you might want to try the wristbands. You pick them up in drugstores. My wife has the SEA-BAND brand, re-useable and one size fits all. No drugs, no side effects. It's acupressure. They have worked for her so far, and she is very prone to motion sickness.

So, what's next for you adventurous kids? How's the new boat coming along?

Ralph
Refinished handrails | sailing away with R & B


----------



## downeast450

Nice Steve! Thanks! More please.

Down


----------



## Jiminri

Awesome trip, Smack Daddy-o! You got yourself an impressive crew. And lucky boys they are to have such adventures. Thanks for sharing the BFS vid.


----------



## smackdaddy

We all used Bonine. My dad's a pharmacist and recommended it. It's been great in the past. This time - not so much. We also tried the wrist bands later, but they didn't really do anything for them.

About 30 minutes outside the jetties in the big swells (we were beating into them), I was trying to keep the boys interested in the ships, etc. BigSmack went first - he's the most susceptible to motion sickness. LilSmack followed him to the rail about 5 minutes later. Then I started in right after them. It was the first time I've ever been sick. So I'm not sure if it was sympathy hurling or what.

After a couple of hours and one more trip to the rail, I was fine. But it took LilSmack 8 hours to get his sealegs - and _20 hours_ for BigSmack (poor dude).

Even so, they never complained, never asked to go back, nothing. They just powered through it. Then they brightened right up and started having fun after it passed. I was so proud of them. Tough little dudes.


----------



## Minnewaska

Sweet memory. Awesome passage. Thanks for sharing Smacky


----------



## mstern

I use Bonine too, but the best remedy for seasickness that I have come across is the Relief Band. This isn't the accupressure or massage type wrist band, but a gizmo that emits electrical pulses to the underside of the wrist. You have to use some of that electro-conductive gel to make it work. The device was originally developed for chemo patients and is FDA-approved. Please note that last bit: unlike the accupressure bands, this device went through the entire government rigamarole to have double-blind testing done. But I think the best evidence that it works is that the Relief Band was covered by insurance companies as a necessary treatment for chemo patients. Yup.

Unlike every treatment except the anti-emetic perscription drugs (scopaline) and the OTC drugs such as dramamine and bonine, the Relief Band can actually claim in its advertising to work. And as far as I know, it is the only treatment that can work even after the nausea has started (try that with bonine).

My son had proven to be susceptable to motion sickness, so when he was going on a cruise with a friend's family, I bought one for him. He wound up never using it. However, one night my wife awoke, severly nauseous. I put the Relief Band on her wrist, adjusted it, and she said the sickness went away completely within 15 seconds. We both were amazed. I gave the Band to my sister in law a couple of years later while she was going through chemo, but I don't think she ever used it.

I heard that the manufacturer had stopped producing the units because one of the subcomponents was no longer available. I remember getting emails from the vendor where I purchased my unit, telling me that if I wanted one, I'd better hurry because they may become scarce. I later read that the manufacturer was still making the units, but that they had cut down the number of models produced (they had a "disposable" model, one where you could replace the battery, and I think a third kind). I just did a quick search, but didn't see and real "Relief Bands" for sale. I saw some electric wrist devices that massage the accupressure points, but nothing that gives the little zaps of electricity like the Relief Band. But it was a quick search, so I wouldn't be surprised if someone else picked up the baton or if some older units are available out there. Definitely worth it.


----------



## smackdaddy

You know one thing that this trip made me realize is that if you are susceptible, you need to be on the boat long enough to get your sealegs and get over it. I think most people who just go out for a day-sail, island hop, etc. likely never get their sealegs and so they only associate sailing with sickness...nothing more. I understand that some may take a very long time, and a very few might never get over it, but if you don't get through it you don't know that it's possible.

Now that both boys have done that, I think they've overcome a huge mental hurdle. They know that even if they get sick it will pass. And that makes the scramble of trying coming up with some kind of remedy a little less desperate. 

We were in the perfect seasickness conditions...beating into big swells with choppy, tightly packed wind-waves. And this wasn't going to change for another 12-15 hours. So you do what you gotta do.

Now, about that "motion comfort of blue-water boats" debate...


----------



## mstern

Couldn't agree more Smack. About the worst hour and half of my life was on the Catalina Island ferry about 20 years ago. I took dramamine about ten minutes before we left, but the water was tremendously choppy from a storm the night before and it wasn't ten minutes after leaving the breakwater that I felt sick. I lost track of how many times I heaved. When we finally got to Avalon, I immediately made my wife book a helicopter ride back. It took about two hours for me to feel even remotely human again. And when we went to board the chopper for the ride back, I recognized many people from the ferry who were trying to get a flight back! Like they say, there are two stages to seasickness: stage 1 is that you feel so bad you're afraid you are going to die; stage 2 is you are afraid you won't.


----------



## PCP

smackdaddy said:


> We all used Bonine. My dad's a pharmacist and recommended it. It's been great in the past. This time - not so much. We also tried the wrist bands later, but they didn't really do anything for them.
> 
> About 30 minutes outside the jetties in the big swells (we were beating into them), I was trying to keep the boys interested in the ships, etc. BigSmack went first - he's the most susceptible to motion sickness. LilSmack followed him to the rail about 5 minutes later. Then I started in right after them. It was the first time I've ever been sick. So I'm not sure if it was sympathy hurling or what.
> 
> After a couple of hours and one more trip to the rail, I was fine. But it took LilSmack 8 hours to get his sealegs - and _20 hours_ for BigSmack (poor dude).
> 
> Even so, they never complained, never asked to go back, nothing. They just powered through it. Then they brightened right up and started having fun after it passed. I was so proud of them. Tough little dudes.


Nice family. As I have said in another post I am very lucky and I don't get seasick but my family does, specially in more demanding circumstances and I have a long experience to try to find something that can make them not suffer while I am having fun. That's a very awkward situation and I don't feel good with that.

The best I could find was this thing:

ReliefBand for Motion Sickness

It worked on my kids, not so well with my wife, not because it did nor work but because he had a skin allergy to it.

Neurowave Medical Technologies ReliefBand Motion Sickness Control Reviews | Buzzillions.com

There are other models available:

COMFORT QUEST Anti-Seasickness Band at West Marine

5 years after being bought it still works and it is on the boat for guests with a seasikness problem.

Regards

Paulo


----------



## mstern

That's it Paulo! Good to know they're still on the market and that others are making similar devices. I see that the West Marine version doesn't require the gel to be effective. Nice.


----------



## abrahamx

Smackdaddy, YEA!! Good stuff. Great video, great job with the safe passage. Just awesome.


----------



## CalebD

I liked the way you mixed up the background music Steve: reggae, opera, rock.
No stone unturned.


----------



## oysterman23

Hey Steve wonderful to see you guys out there together...thank you so much for sharing it with us!
ChrisCod


----------



## benesailor

Great Vid. Great music. Stellar kids. Those are priceless moments with your kids that you will remember and cherish forever.


----------



## imiloa

Nice work all around, Smack. I especially like the way you managed to give us a good feel for the wave heights. Your boys are awesome, I felt sorry for them being down with the sickness. Is this the first time they've suffered from it? How about some music credits?


----------



## smackdaddy

Thanks everyone. Those little guys were amazing. BigSmack has always been susceptible to motion sickness, but this is his and LilSmacks' first time to be sick on a sailboat. Even so, they still want more.

Here are the musical credits:

Give We Da Sensi - Instigators
Nel Villagio D'Edgar - Puccini
Engine Fire - Silent Partner
Goofy's Dance - Thelonius Monk Big Band


----------



## ccriders

smackdaddy said:


> Thanks everyone. Those little guys were amazing. BigSmack has always been susceptible to motion sickness, but this is his and LilSmacks' first time to be sick on a sailboat. Even so, they still want more.
> 
> Here are the musical credits:
> 
> Give We Da Sensi - Instigators
> Nel Villagio D'Edgar - Puccini
> Engine Fire - Silent Partner
> Goofy's Dance - Thelonius Monk Big Band


In the video, while the boys were sleeping, huddled together I thought of Pavarotti singing "nessun dorma". Good to gear opera/classical music in a sailing video. Buffet is a bit tired.
John


----------



## CharlieCobra

Nice vid Steve. Good to see the Boys out sailing with their "Pops".


----------



## smackdaddy

Thanks Charlie. We still joke about LilSmack trying the cigar (what he called "the smoker") you brought me when we sailed together a few years ago. I loved how he blew through it like it was a bubble pipe. That's some safe smoking right there. I still haven't told him that's not how you do it. Heh-heh.


----------



## Melrna

I hope this makes Smacks BFS criteria


----------



## smackdaddy

Oh hell yeah!!










That 90 degree heel was freakin' awesome!!!

PS - For the shout out, you guys obviously need some BFS swag! Go to the store and sign up and I'll set you up so you can order a couple of freebies.


----------



## Ajax_MD

Ok Mel, details!

WHY were you off the coast of Georgia? Going to Florida? The Bahamas? Surely you weren't headed north?

The waves looked as large as you say, but that's not chop like we get in the Chesapeake. I'd be pleased to work my way upwind in waves spaced that far apart (if I had to).

Sigh...nice, wide side decks. You and Smackdaddy with yer friggin' "Battlestars"...


----------



## Melrna

BubbleheadMd said:


> Ok Mel, details!
> 
> WHY were you off the coast of Georgia? Going to Florida? The Bahamas? Surely you weren't headed north?
> 
> The waves looked as large as you say, but that's not chop like we get in the Chesapeake. I'd be pleased to work my way upwind in waves spaced that far apart (if I had to).
> 
> Sigh...nice, wide side decks. You and Smackdaddy with yer friggin' "Battlestars"...


One day you too can join the dark side my jet eye warrior. 
The MoonDance Battleship was heading south for a few days on the final shakedown cruise. We hoped to make St Augustine but the weather turned real nasty for 3 days.


----------



## Ajax_MD

Well I'm glad you're safe, and that you have a boat that can handle BFS conditions.

I was in Florida last week, but not close enough to you or I would have pinged you.

As much as I'd love to be your Jedi Apprentice, I'm afraid I'll have to stick with my Pearson 30/X-wing fighter. 30 feet is my optimal single-handing size, and the largest size that I can afford to maintain to a high standard.

As a pilot, I'm sure you'll agree that quality of maintenance is important.


----------



## smackdaddy

Swag's on the way Mel! We'll get your video into the Throwdown section soon.


----------



## Melrna

Not only will we be BFS but doing it in style!
Thanks


----------



## jimgo

Looks like a lot of fun, Mel!


----------



## smackdaddy

Melrna said:


> Not only will we be BFS but doing it in style!
> Thanks


Welcome to the BFS Hall of Fame, Mel!

Featured Throwdown


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - seriously, this is how it's done:


----------



## chall03

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - seriously, this is how it's done:


Oui.

He then went around the world again with his women didn't he?? But had the common sense the second time to stop in at a few nice places for _vin et baguettes_.


----------



## Minnewaska

Hates sailing (weather) while he's sailing, can't get enough when he's not. 

Sounds like most of us. 

I'm trying to imagine sailing great distance while jury rigged after a rollover. If that's the new BFS standard, I fold.


----------



## capt vimes

this summer around the aeolic islands, med...
we had the whole day a constant westerly breeze and were going round lipari and vulcano on a beam reach...
the windmeter gave us 40-50 knots, but i doubted it very much, because we had full main and a slightly reefed genoa - so maybe we had a good force 6 wind...
on those boats we saw, they were all wearing foulies and pfds, while we held on to our beer cans... 
it was an almost perfect day! \o/


----------



## smackdaddy

capt vimes said:


> this summer around the aeolic islands, med...
> we had the whole day a constant westerly breeze and were going round lipari and vulcano on a beam reach...
> the windmeter gave us 40-50 knots, but i doubted it very much, because we had full main and a slightly reefed genoa - so maybe we had a good force 6 wind...
> on those boats we saw, they were all wearing foulies and pfds, while we held on to our beer cans...
> it was an almost perfect day! \o/
> sailing around the aeolic islands in a nice breeze - YouTube


Oh hell yeah!!










Dude - that is beautiful!!!!!


----------



## smackdaddy

Here is a fantastic heavy weather sailing series...


----------



## vtsailguy

Eh? I don't see any links?

Three boys, 200 sq ft of fiberglass, tropical beaches
www.sailingwithkids.net


----------



## smackdaddy

vt - you can't see the embedded video on your end? If not, here's the URL:


----------



## vtsailguy

Thanks!


----------



## Kyhillbilly

Good video!


----------



## Lou452

Smack thanks , What kind of sailboat was that Skip Novak has ? What is the hull made of? 
good day, Lou


----------



## capt vimes

Lou452 said:


> Smack thanks , What kind of sailboat was that Skip Novak has ? What is the hull made of?
> good day, Lou


he has actually 2...
pelagic - made from steel
pelagic australis - which looks very much like aluminium... 
Pelagic Expeditions Fleet Overview

i know his videos and have always asked myself: what are those drums of line at the mast for?


----------



## Minnewaska

capt vimes said:


> .....i know his videos and have always asked myself: what are those drums of line at the mast for?


I wasn't sure if you were still asking, as I did see it in one of his videos at some point. Just in case, they are for tying to shore in remote places.


----------



## JonEisberg

capt vimes said:


> he has actually 2...
> pelagic - made from steel
> pelagic australis - which looks very much like aluminium...
> Pelagic Expeditions Fleet Overview
> 
> i know his videos and have always asked myself: what are those drums of line at the mast for?


As Minnewaska says, those are for running lines ashore, to tie off in tight/protected anchorages... They're a virtual necessity in high-latitude cruising grounds like Tierra del Fuego, and the Antarctic...


----------



## capt vimes

thank's - makes sense...


----------



## smackdaddy

vtsailguy said:


> Eh? I don't see any links?
> 
> Three boys, 200 sq ft of fiberglass, tropical beaches
> Sailing with Kids


Okay - you definitely win in the out there doing it category!

I took a look at your blog, and I gotta say...

Oh hell yeah!!


----------



## smackdaddy

I already posted this in the Gear and Maintenance section...but for you non-gearheads I thought I'd post it here too..

*Here is the next installment of The SmackBoys' Yacht.*

We get new graphics...









...deal with this rat's nest and the non-functioning instruments because of it...









...and go Full-LED on the lighting...









Enjoy!


----------



## Minnewaska

Love it. Good luck with her. It's a terrific journey with the boys and may you never arrive.


----------



## vtsailguy

Hey smack,

I just got some LEDs and they were a handy type that could alternate between red and white. Same price as the white. They are super useful....


----------



## smackdaddy

vtsailguy said:


> Hey smack,
> 
> I just got some LEDs and they were a handy type that could alternate between red and white. Same price as the white. They are super useful....


Wow! Now that sounds cool. Linky?


----------



## warren5421

Great reads/watches. Someday maybe me.


----------



## vtsailguy

smackdaddy said:


> Wow! Now that sounds cool. Linky?


Red or White Switchable LED G4 Bulb


----------



## smackdaddy

warren5421 said:


> Great reads/watches. Someday maybe me.


Warren - trust me, if I can do it, you can do it. It'll be the best thing you ever did.

When I'm sitting down below listening to the water rushing by while our 2 wonderful boys are sailing our big freakin' yacht - it's the best feeling in the whole world.


----------



## theonecalledtom

Yesterday, perfect sailing. Just awesome!

KrakenUnderwaterDownwind - YouTube


----------



## catamount

smackdaddy said:


> When I'm sitting down below listening to the water rushing by while our 2 wonderful boys are sailing our big freakin' yacht - it's the best feeling in the whole world.


2012 Monhegan Race (an overnight race in Maine), sailing double-handed with my then 14-year old son. Typical very light wind overnight. We are battling with another boat (from another class) in the wee hours. I decide to take a nap and curl up on the cockpit sole, leaving my son at the tiller. An hour and a half later, I wake up in the pre-dawn light, my son's face just beaming down at me (big, big grin). He says,"Dad, we are sailing now; and I passed that boat!"

Multi-thousands of dollars for the boat, more thousands of dollars for running costs. Moments like that? Priceless!


----------



## smackdaddy

theonecalledtom said:


> Yesterday, perfect sailing. Just awesome!
> 
> KrakenUnderwaterDownwind - YouTube


WOW!!!! Check out that awesome video!






Oh hell yeah!!


----------



## smackdaddy

catamount said:


> 2012 Monhegan Race (an overnight race in Maine), sailing double-handed with my then 14-year old son. Typical very light wind overnight. We are battling with another boat (from another class) in the wee hours. I decide to take a nap and curl up on the cockpit sole, leaving my son at the tiller. An hour and a half later, I wake up in the pre-dawn light, my son's face just beaming down at me (big, big grin). He says,"Dad, we are sailing now; and I passed that boat!"
> 
> Multi-thousands of dollars for the boat, more thousands of dollars for running costs. Moments like that? Priceless!


Absofreakinlutely.


----------



## Minnewaska

smackdaddy said:


> WOW!!!! Check out that awesome video!
> 
> ....snip........
> 
> Oh hell yeah!!


That is an awesome video. But a 36ft boat being pushed on a broad reach in 11kts of wind to a half knot over hull speed. Hmmmmmm.  You certified that?


----------



## smackdaddy

Minnewaska said:


> That is an awesome video. But a 36ft boat being pushed on a broad reach in 11kts of wind to a half knot over hull speed. Hmmmmmm.  You certified that?


Remember, there are all kinds of BFS. It doesn't have to be a bash through 40 knots (though those are always preferred) - it just has to be big and awesome.

That's easily one of the best sailing videos I've seen. No, it won't win schwag like Mel's did - but it definitely rates a cert.


----------



## theonecalledtom

Hull speed is 7.7knots we were slowing 7.5 and hitting high 8s on the downhills. The downhills weren't very big.

https://www.beneteaufirst367.org/page.php?id=11


----------



## Minnewaska

smackdaddy said:


> Remember, there are all kinds of BFS. It doesn't have to be a bash through 40 knots (though those are always preferred) - it just has to be big and awesome.
> 
> That's easily one of the best sailing videos I've seen. No, it won't win schwag like Mel's did - but it definitely rates a cert.


Reminds me of the show, "Whose line is it anyway", where Drew Carey gave random points to whatever he liked and didn't need to explain why to anyone. I really liked the shot looking up at the water going by. But 11kts of wind can make a BFS. 11.

It's your show.


----------



## Minnewaska

theonecalledtom said:


> Hull speed is 7.7knots we were slowing 7.5 and hitting high 8s on the downhills. The downhills weren't very big.
> 
> https://www.beneteaufirst367.org/page.php?id=11


It's okay, we all do it.


----------



## smackdaddy

Minnewaska said:


> Reminds me of the show, "Whose line is it anyway", where Drew Carey gave random points to whatever he liked and didn't need to explain why to anyone. I really liked the shot looking up at the water going by. But 11kts of wind can make a BFS. 11.
> 
> It's your show.


Okay Mr. Hard To Please. Seems like it's time for you to show us what _you_ got.

Badass video please. We'll see if it rates.


----------



## Minnewaska

You win. I got nothing.

I have a couple of sunset pictures, flying at a few hundred knots with no hands.


----------



## Magnolia

Excellent video and I applaud their use of such an awesome song!!!

Thnx for sharing!!


----------



## gbennett

Alright

How about 12-15 knots in a big fat cruising boat.






Sea Dragon


----------



## smackdaddy

gbennett said:


> Alright
> 
> How about 12-15 knots in a big fat cruising boat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sea Dragon


Looks like a man in his element. Nicely done.


----------



## jerryrlitton

Smack, here we are N 07.48.33 E 098.57.933 leaving the dream Great sail East from Phuket. Anchored off shore about .3nm. BBQ pork loin, veggies and beans. Ice cold beer. We are enrout to Langkawi Malaysia so I can look at V37 that I may pick up and use in this part of the world. Aevebtyr60 and I are fixen to hook up with another SNer(CPT Len) in the morning when we have better view of the rocks. We are planning on stretching this voyage out to 4 days before I have to return to my apartment in Bangkok in preperation for a flight to Texas for a week visiting. Great way to wind down after working in Afghanistan. The wind is free, not worried about composting toilets, voyaging on 500USD a month, 300USD a month or steel boats (other then the one we may dive on tomorow) I need to tell you in are seriousness and I am not an experienced guy at all however everyone here has come from a very long way to be here. There are not many 1M boats but many very average boats with average people having a great time making by finding a way to make it work for them. Just get out out and do it.

Jerry


----------



## smackdaddy

jerryrlitton said:


> Smack, here we are N 07.48.33 E 098.57.933 leaving the dream Great sail East from Phuket. Anchored off shore about .3nm. BBQ pork loin, veggies and beans. Ice cold beer. We are enrout to Langkawi Malaysia so I can look at V37 that I may pick up and use in this part of the world. Aevebtyr60 and I are fixen to hook up with another SNer(CPT Len) in the morning when we have better view of the rocks. We are planning on stretching this voyage out to 4 days before I have to return to my apartment in Bangkok in preperation for a flight to Texas for a week visiting. Great way to wind down after working in Afghanistan. The wind is free, not worried about composting toilets, voyaging on 500USD a month, 300USD a month or steel boats (other then the one we may dive on tomorow) I need to tell you in are seriousness and I am not an experienced guy at all however everyone here has come from a very long way to be here. There are not many 1M boats but many very average boats with average people having a great time making by finding a way to make it work for them. Just get out out and do it.
> 
> Jerry


Pics and vids you guys! Have a blast.


----------



## smackdaddy

The boys and I had a KILLER sail on Sunday. Forecast called for 15-20+ knots, and that's exactly what we got.

I wanted to do some testing with the boat and sail configurations in bigger winds so we headed out.

We started with a single reef in the main, and a partially furled genny. The wind at that point was 15-20 and she sailed flat and steady - getting 6.5 knots or so SOG.

We then shook out the reef and unfurled the sail. She remained perfectly stable and bumped up to the low 7s SOG.

The wind continued to build and we were seeing gusts to 27 knots...with full sail. On a reach she was definitely heeling with the puffs, but I was AMAZED at how little weather helm she had compared to my C27. She's an amazingly solid boat.

So, we've learned that she wants a reef when the wind builds past 20 knots. But she is very forgiving...while remaining very fast.

As for that fast part, we caught a 38-ish Beneteau (didn't catch the model) on the same point of sail. We started about 200 yards behind them - and within maybe a mile or so, we were just off their port beam throwing our empties at them.

I love our boat!

(PS - The tide was super low when we got back to the marina. We were actually dragging through the soft silt as I was trying to dock her - stern-in. It was a challenge, but we nailed it. It's great to start gaining some confidence with our new boat.)


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - I wanted to post the video from the above sail. The main reason I wanted to do it was to show how _benign_ 25+ knots of wind can be if you're in the right area at the right time.

Yes, 25+ knots can be fairly scary if you're offshore in it for days. But it's really pretty tame on Galveston Bay, especially when the wind is coming from the WSW as it was that day. Very little fetch, so the water was perfectly flat.

As I mentioned, I wanted to get out in that wind to see how the boat would handle under various sail configurations. We hadn't been in anything more than 15 knots on our past sails. But I didn't want to battle through waves - I just wanted to get a feel for her when she's pressed. So this was the perfect way to do that.

Why is this important? Well, since my FightClub days I've always advocated going out and practicing in "big" conditions. Now, many guys scoffed at such talk - saying it was irresponsible and dangerous. They talked about 25 knots being a scary thing. Sure, it CAN be I suppose, but as you see in this video, if you're conservative and practice in the right places - it's _child's play_...especially on a 40' boat...






So, as I always say, go big - just stay safe.


----------



## finding41

Solid!


----------



## chall03

smackdaddy said:


> Okay - I wanted to post the video from the above sail. The main reason I wanted to do it was to show how _benign_ 25+ knots of wind can be if you're in the right area at the right time.
> 
> Yes, 25+ knots can be fairly scary if you're offshore in it for days. But it's really pretty tame on Galveston Bay, especially when the wind is coming from the WSW as it was that day. Very little fetch, so the water was perfectly flat.
> 
> As I mentioned, I wanted to get out in that wind to see how the boat would handle under various sail configurations. We hadn't been in anything more than 15 knots on our past sails. But I didn't want to battle through waves - I just wanted to get a feel for her when she's pressed. So this was the perfect way to do that.
> 
> Why is this important? Well, since my FightClub days I've always advocated going out and practicing in "big" conditions. Now, many guys scoffed at such talk - saying it was irresponsible and dangerous. They talked about 25 knots being a scary thing. Sure, it CAN be I suppose, but as you see in this video, if you're conservative and practice in the right places - it's _child's play_...especially on a 40' boat...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, as I always say, go big - just stay safe.


I agree. It is all subjective. 25 knots used to be a big deal, but now it is no big deal, my boat really loves 25 knots.

For most of the year up the reef the trades blow at 25kts SE daily so have been offshore for days in these conditions several times and actually on a reach it is perfect cruising conditions.

Beating into it with a steep sea.....well that is umm less pleasant. uke

Like I said it is subjective...if you spoke to a New Zealand sailor 25 knots is a dead calm and 45 knots is considered a good day sailing.


----------



## engineer_sailor

Smack

I like the idea of getting out in conditions that make one uncomfortable and push the boundary to practice seamanship. 25 knots is going to happen eventually while you are out so good to experience it on your terms.
Great time to practice sail handling, maneuvering, etc.

Josh


----------



## smackdaddy

Chall and eng - Bingo. As you could see in our last offshore video, we had relatively steep 8'-12' seas in 25 knots - due to a bigger blow further out. That's a completely different animal than the super tame conditions you see in the video above. On that day, the wind had just started to build after a heavy fog - and it was coming straight off the land. So flat calm.

That was what was great about lake sailing - when I used to do that. You could get 30-40 knots of wind and only ever deal with 3' waves at the most (at least on our lake). I much prefer ocean sailing, of course, but you learn A LOT with inland sailing about how your boat handles BEFORE you throw in the issues of big seas. And I think that's really valuable.

The bottom line is that most young sailors fear bigger winds - and many overly-conservative long-time sailors categorically advise away from them. However, there's a very rich middle ground to get out and test your boat and yourself. You just have to pick the place and time - and you'll be just fine. And will become a much better sailor for it.


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - this chick is now officially my new hero:






She can do anything. Freakin' awesome.


----------



## finding41

If you haven't yet... Check out all of her YouTube videos in order. She goes through a few tough bits!


----------



## capt vimes

oh yeah - she is cute... 
followed all of her video blogs so far...


----------



## Tallswede

Yep, been watching her video blogs for awhile and she has hit a rough patch. It will be interesting to see what she decides to do. One thing is for sure, I admire her determination and whatever she decides to do, she's done more than most already.

Kevin


----------



## Minnewaska

Note to self...... don't buy a $6k abandon moldy boat in Panama to sail around the world.

Something tells me that that the quality of the production and sponsors are a bit too professional for this. I have a funny feeling its just part of the drama of a good story and she'll recover and move on with the cruise. It's like a good soap opera. I am a subscriber now, so it's working!


----------



## TakeFive

OK, you guys got me hooked. I watched the whole series up to today's post. What a cutie! Also very determined, level-headed, and a quick study. However, she proved why you never buy a boat without a survey. It's too easy (and too late) to say "I told you so," so let's just hope she gets things right without running out of money.


----------



## chall03

TakeFive said:


> OK, you guys got me hooked. I watched the whole series up to today's post. What a cutie! Also very determined, level-headed, and a quick study. However, she proved why you never buy a boat without a survey. It's too easy (and too late) to say "I told you so," so let's just hope she gets things right without running out of money.


+1.

I am addicted.

Now don't ruin it for me as I am only up to #13. I love her positive, glass half full, simple approach.

Ok back to youtube.


----------



## JonEisberg

Minnewaska said:


> Something tells me that that the quality of the production and sponsors are a bit too professional for this. I have a funny feeling its just part of the drama of a good story and she'll recover and move on with the cruise. It's like a good soap opera. I am a subscriber now, so it's working!


My thoughts, as well... I've been following her from the start, love her attitude, and these clips are very well put together, and she's got a great eye...

However, I'm amazed at the amount of time she must be spending shooting and editing these, simply setting up the camera for so many 'selfie' views of everything she does must be consuming an incredible amount of time. They are invariably perfectly framed and composed, that's got to require a fair amount of re-takes and do-overs, unless there's someone else shooting much of this stuff that I'm not aware of... But to even grab a shot of her doing something as mundane as cooking something on her stove in the galley could require considerable time to set up...

I can't help thinking, she might already be thru the Canal, and staging for her voyage to the Marquesas, if it weren't for the amount of time she's spent making these videos...

I'm rooting for her bigtime, wish I had the money to give her a decent boat  You can bet it would be fiberglass, really a pity she didn't start out with any of the far more suitable boats to be found for cheap here in the States, that wouldn't require quite as much time and effort to get out there on...


----------



## BentSailor

Damn it smack... as if I didn't have enough time-wasters sapping my plans to take over the world! 

Subscribed, very cool find. Thanks


----------



## TakeFive

JonEisberg said:


> My thoughts, as well... I've been following her from the start, love her attitude, and these clips are very well put together, and she's got a great eye...
> 
> However, I'm amazed at the amount of time she must be spending shooting and editing these, simply setting up the camera for so many 'selfie' views of everything she does must be consuming an incredible amount of time. They are invariably perfectly framed and composed, that's got to require a fair amount of re-takes and do-overs, unless there's someone else shooting much of this stuff that I'm not aware of... But to even grab a shot of her doing something as mundane as cooking something on her stove in the galley could require considerable time to set up...
> 
> I can't help thinking, she might already be thru the Canal, and staging for her voyage to the Marquesas, if it weren't for the amount of time she's spent making these videos...
> 
> I'm rooting for her bigtime, wish I had the money to give her a decent boat  You can bet it would be fiberglass, really a pity she didn't start out with any of the far more suitable boats to be found for cheap here in the States, that wouldn't require quite as much time and effort to get out there on...


I was thinking all those things too. But remember, she posts only about 4 minutes of footage every week. So even if she spends all day shooting footage, it's just one day a week. But the editing and music are very slickly done, and could take a whole day just to do that - unless she's sending out the raw footage to someone else who is editing them (and doing a VERY professional job).


----------



## chall03

TakeFive said:


> I was thinking all those things too. But remember, she posts only about 4 minutes of footage every week. So even if she spends all day shooting footage, it's just one day a week. But the editing and music are very slickly done, and could take a whole day just to do that - unless she's sending out the raw footage to someone else who is editing them (and doing a VERY professional job).


I agree that the quality of the videos is very good. It obviously is taking some time and effort.

BUT.........Ummmm how to I say this kindly to the denizens of Sailnet-I think there is a generational gap thing here as well.....it is not unrealistic at all to find under 30ish, creative, saavy people who with some prior experience with the medium can create videos of this calibre. It is a talent for sure, it does take some setting up, a few go pros mounted here and there, maybe she or the boyfriend has a background in this field somehow, someway, but I doub't there is more to it than that.

Either way it is a good story, well told.


----------



## abrahamx

she sure would make me a good wife.  Too bad I am happily married to a woman who says she will do anything more than a daysail.


----------



## aelkin

LOL...Chall...very delicately done...

You're right, of course.
I read in one of the comments after her video (about week 8, I think?) that she's using a GoPro Hero3 white, and a Canon Camcorder. A decent laptop (maybe especially an Apple product) with readily available off-the-web editing tools can create videos of this type and quality with only moderate time and effort for someone with experience. (not me, but others I know)

Smack - thanks for pointing this out...I watched half the series last night, and am fascinated!

Andy


----------



## Minnewaska

I'm not suggesting the quality takes a movie crew. I'm saying the professionalism of the segments, combined with the sponsorship of Lee Sails and Boatoons.com, make me find it hard to believe they would have all signed up for a vid blog of a random nearly abandon boat in Panama.

I'm guessing they all knew exactly what they were getting into and the trials and tribulations were projected to make good drama. So, I may be saying the segments on "I may give up" could be staged a bit.

Anyway, I still find it very entertaining. Good on em.


----------



## abrahamx

Thanks alot Smack. These videos are making my morning.


----------



## TakeFive

Minnewaska said:


> I'm not suggesting the quality takes a movie crew. I'm saying the professionalism of the segments, combined with the sponsorship of Lee Sails and Boatoons.com, make me find it hard to believe they would have all signed up for a vid blog of a random nearly abandon boat in Panama.
> 
> I'm guessing they all knew exactly what they were getting into and the trials and tribulations were projected to make good drama. So, I may be saying the segments on "I may give up" could be staged a bit.
> 
> Anyway, I still find it very entertaining. Good on em.


If you look at the timeline on Facebook, you'll see that the boat acquisition video that was posted on Youtube in late August actually had stills posted on Facebook in March (and may have actually happened even earlier than that). So at that point, there was actually a 5+ month lag between the events that occurred and the slick videos that were posted.

It makes me wonder how much raw or produced video was already "in the can" before it hit YouTube.

Corporate sponsors often want to know what they are getting into before signing on. "Near random" rarely gets funded. I suspect they went to the sponsors with footage in hand.

I realize that the tools for professional quality video editing are easily accessible. But I also realize that accessing audio loops and other resources is easy if you have high speed data connection, but not so sure that shoreline towns in Panama have that available. (Maybe some of the cruisers here can let us know.)

Purely speculation on my part, but I have a feeling that we are watching events that occurred many months ago, and they're dribbling them out on us in a methodical fashion to maximize the dramatic impact. Does Panama have any seasonal changes to their botany that might show up in the videos? It's still enjoyable to see the videos, but their professionalism makes them look sort of like reality TV.

I think Nike's background is brand management and social media marketing. So it would appear that she knows what she's doing with that part of the venture.


----------



## mstern

She's clearly not alone on the boat, at least when some of those shots are taken. The camera moves to follow her, so unless she has some very sophisticated automated equipment, there's a cameraman aboard. And I echo the thoughts of the others who suspect that there's a lot of professional help involved here; that or she's unusually adept at video editing and has the necessary software and equipment aboard to do it herself.

All that being said, I'm hooked too.


----------



## TakeFive

mstern said:


> She's clearly not alone on the boat, at least when some of those shots are taken. The camera moves to follow her, so unless she has some very sophisticated automated equipment, there's a cameraman aboard. And I echo the thoughts of the others who suspect that there's a lot of professional help involved here; that or she's unusually adept at video editing and has the necessary software and equipment aboard to do it herself.
> 
> All that being said, I'm hooked too.


Some videos were done with her boyfriend or sister holding the cameras, or with cruising partners that were mentioned in the chronology. Some others were selfies, or staged with the camera sitting or mounted. I have not noticed any videos that would have to be done by another person where she claimed to be alone. So I don't think that there's anything untrue or misleading about her statements so far, aside from the fact that some of the very first videos may have posted months after they happened.

On a separate subject, what is the additional boom shown angling down from her mast onto the foredeck? At first I thought it was a spin pole, but in some of the shots I see the spin pole mounted vertically on the mast in additional to this additional boom. Then I thought it might be a Hoyt boom, but it does not appear to be secured properly on the foredeck, and all of the sailing has been done with a typical genoa. So what is it?


----------



## Rhapsody-NS27

Following for the past couple months or so. I enjoy seeing how she works through her issues with the boat. She's out there doing it so that alone is pretty awesome.


----------



## smackdaddy

She's amazingly handy with just about anything that's in front of her. And this, combined with her tenacity, is damn impressive.


----------



## jzk

I see that she is discovering some corrosion problems with Karl. I wonder if it can be fixed with something like this:








smackdaddy said:


> She's amazingly handy with just about anything that's in front of her. And this, combined with her tenacity, is damn impressive.


----------



## MedSailor

Thanks smacky for the white spot pirates addiction. It's just what I needed. 

I've been trying to figure out what kind of boat Karl is. I'm going to guess that based on what I know from the boat from the first 20 episodes.... that she's a twin keeled steel boat.... 

Could she be a Brent Swain design?

MedSailor


----------



## Minnewaska

According to some web searching, the boat is a Reinke Super 10, twin-keel, aluminum hull, built in Germany.


----------



## jzk

You are getting very close to the aluminium saga.



MedSailor:1661034 said:


> Thanks smacky for the white spot pirates addiction. It's just what I needed.
> 
> I've been trying to figure out what kind of boat Karl is. I'm going to guess that based on what I know from the boat from the first 20 episodes.... that she's a twin keeled steel boat....
> 
> Could she be a Brent Swain design?
> 
> MedSailor


----------



## MedSailor

I just caught up to the most recent episode and yes, the aluminum..... 

Those holes where you can see daylight through the hull gave me cold, spine-chilling flashbacks to my wooden boat, whom I loved dearly but I always had a (justifiable) fear would sink out from under me. 

There was an aluminum boat with a pilothouse steering station at the local boat show this last weekend. I was intrigued and have heard the praises of aluminum sung by Beth and Evans and Steve Dashew. While I don't doubt them, Larry Pardey also would extol the virtues of wood to all. I lived the nightmare that can be. 

After seeing this video series, I realized that I'm a fiberglass guy now. 

MedSailor


----------



## mstern

I finally caught up on all of the White Spot Pirates videos; she is a very resourceful person. A couple of people early on wondered why she bought that particular boat. She doesn't address it directly, but I'm guessing it probably had something to do with the fact that it is a German design (probably something she was familiar with), and that it was cheap. When bemoaning how much the welders wanted to fix the boat, I think she said that the quote was around $2000 dollars, which was something like half of what she paid for the boat in total. Wow. Even with the leaking hatches and portholes, and the incredible mold problems, I find it surprising that you could buy a floating hull that big with a working engine for that price.


----------



## Ajax_MD

Took my new crew for a practice race.

With new standing rigging, barely tested.
During a Gale Warning, with gusts over 30kts.
While it was sleeting and snowing.

Not the scariest thing ever, but it should count for something.


----------



## Lou452

mstern said:


> I finally caught up on all of the White Spot Pirates videos; she is a very resourceful person. A couple of people early on wondered why she bought that particular boat. She doesn't address it directly, but I'm guessing it probably had something to do with the fact that it is a German design (probably something she was familiar with), and that it was cheap. When bemoaning how much the welders wanted to fix the boat, I think she said that the quote was around $2000 dollars, which was something like half of what she paid for the boat in total. Wow. Even with the leaking hatches and portholes, and the incredible mold problems, I find it surprising that you could buy a floating hull that big with a working engine for that price.


I would like to ask at what point is a hull beyond repair ? I have not looked at the videos. I do not want to start a steel, fiberglass, carbon fiber, ferro cement, debate, and sorry to get off topic.
Kind Regards, Lou


----------



## smackdaddy

BubbleheadMd said:


> Took my new crew for a practice race.
> 
> With new standing rigging, barely tested.
> During a Gale Warning, with gusts over 30kts.
> While it was sleeting and snowing.
> 
> Not the scariest thing ever, but it should count for something.


Gale warning with sleet and snow?

Oh hell yeah!!


----------



## Lou452

Minnewaska said:


> Note to self...... don't buy a $6k abandon moldy boat in Panama to sail around the world.
> 
> Something tells me that that the quality of the production and sponsors are a bit too professional for this. I have a funny feeling its just part of the drama of a good story and she'll recover and move on with the cruise. It's like a good soap opera. I am a subscriber now, so it's working!


I am right with you. Ready tack. 
Kind Regards, Lou


----------



## Kyhillbilly

It could be staged Lou but it sure makes for some good entertainment. I really have enjoyed the series so far. You racing this weekend?


----------



## Lou452

yes and yes It is a work of art and good video Hope to see you this weekend Ky. hillbilly It has been a long winter. 
Regards, Lou


----------



## TakeFive

She didn't post #29 this Friday, per her weekly schedule. I hope we see it soon. I need my Nike fix! :laugher


----------



## chall03

She has posted it. 

I looks like she is in the holding pattern of boat jobs


----------



## Minnewaska

chall03 said:


> She has posted it.
> 
> I looks like she is in the holding pattern of boat jobs


She tried to depart about a dozen episodes in, but now she's doing a big refit. I suppose she learned of these issues and changed plans, but it just seems a bit fishy.

Might be a good idea to start a new thread on this blog.


----------



## smackdaddy

Minnewaska said:


> She tried to depart about a dozen episodes in, but now she's doing a big refit. I suppose she learned of these issues and changed plans, but it just seems a bit fishy.
> 
> Might be a good idea to start a new thread on this blog.


You're right. This is starting to look like a BFD.


----------



## chall03

smackdaddy said:


> You're right. This is starting to look like a BFD.


She has posted this weeks update.

I still find what she is up to pretty interesting and wish her the best of luck, time will tell whether she has her BFS.

If someone else wants to annoy a Mod to move all of this somewhere else go for it. I don't care enough, not at lot else going on in this thread these days.


----------



## Minnewaska

I'm still watching. But its losing its appeal. The original thought that this young lady was going it alone on the water was cool. Now she's in perpetual refit mode and I'm just not buying that she didn't plan this from the beginning. She had this big sanding party a few episodes back, now she's paint stripping.


----------



## TomMaine

Looking back over a lifetime of coastal sailing, my Biggest Freakin' Sail was last fall with my daughter. Having sailed from Maine to Cape Cod overnight together, we covered 80 nautical miles in 10 hours from Port Clyde to somewhere off Cape Ann, Mass. That's a lifetime speed record our boat will never break again!

But it wasn't all good. She became seasick, which she often does in the wrong conditions. I misjudged the weather and got more wind than I wanted. Conditions became too rough for her on the wheel so toward the end of 10, mostly fun hours wrestling the wheel, we packed it in and hove to for3 hours to sleep-rest(sorry if you've heard the story before).

I felt guilty about the poor decisions(mistakes) I'd made to get us in that sketchy position.
Things could have gone bad even just 50 miles off the coast that night.

A few days later, I called my daughter who just moved to NYC(she's just graduated from college) for a job she took. I had a nagging question about that sail. "Were you scared out there, Mary Jane?"

She paused for a moment, then said, "Nah, I wasn't really scared Dad. I just felt bad that you became unable to steer the boat anymore, and I couldn't help". She rallied on the seasickness, but I had us in a state neither of us could physically handle, that night.

So that BFS was benchmark of sorts for us. She, becoming an 'adult' lately, me turning 60, and feeling a little vulnerable of my own abilities. Maybe she was seeing that point in life-Dad or mom can't fix everything.

Stuff happens, I still make mistakes(damn it!). We remember sinking this boat as a family(I'm not going into that here...  ) and lot's of scary moments together for 23 years, mostly onshore. We've shared a lot together.

Here she is sound asleep in Cape Cod Bay the next morning.

I get several texts a day from NYC now. A recent one read. CAN'T WAIT TO SAIL TO CAPE COD AGAIN!!!!


----------



## smackdaddy

Sailing in tough conditions with your kids - and them wanting more?

Oh hell yeah!!










Great story Tom. Thanks.


----------



## smackdaddy

Heh-heh. I just noticed...over 300K views for a thread dedicated to awesome sailing. It really doesn't get any better than that.

To you, fellow BFSers!


----------



## MedSailor

TomMaine said:


> Stuff happens, I still make mistakes(damn it!). We remember sinking this boat as a family(I'm not going into that here...  )


What? Why not? We, here on SailNet are usually nice, and non-judgmental when discussing a sunk boat. We will even offer our opinions on how you should have done things better (usually several each) at no additional charge.

C'mon, fess up! 

MedSailor

PS Thanks for the BFS story. Great one.


----------



## MedSailor

Yesterday I had a short but Big Freakin' Sail. 

My friend Mike and I arranged to go sailling with the local club. The club changed things on us and only small boats (dinghys) were going to do a can race. We already had the day on our calendars and decided to just go sail around anyway. He texted me the day of and said "Winds 15-25knots predicted with rain, still want to go?" I replied "Sounds like fun to me!" 

Despite checking NOAA, Sailflow, and a kite-surfing weather site, we got a little more than anyone predicted.... At one point, I pointed out to skipper Mike the line of dark ominous black clouds to windward that were fast approaching. We had gone out with a steady 17-24 knots of true wind and were under sail with one reef in the main and an 88% blade. Boat is a Catalina 400 (like Brian the moderator)









At the time I took this photo, I said, "I shall call this, the last photo of Mike seen alive."

Then, the clouds got worse. And closer. 









I don't have a picture of what happened next, but bascally a completely opaque white wall of rain appeared and started swallowing up the landscape to windward, and then the sea in front of us. Visibility to windward quickly went from 1 mile, to a half, to 1/8 to nothing....

Mike and I (the most experienced people on the boat) conferred about the impending ass-kicking and figured we were reefed, the boat was sailling well, we had room, and we'd just let her rip and see what happens. Besides, the white wall was approaching so quickly, we didn't think we could get Reef 2 in before it hit, and we didn't want to be _in the middle of reefing,_ when it did hit. And hit it did!










For the newbies on the boat it was "This is fun!", followed by, "ummm... is the boat supposed to heel like that?"

















During the acute ****ski we saw true winds of 37knots and the suddenness with which it went from 25 to 35-37 was awesome. The boat heeled and felt a bit over powered, but nothing like a bad spinnaker broach in high winds. The boat was doing well. Still, reef 2 suddenly seemed like a really good idea. 

Putting in reef 2 was a nightmare. The boat has the cruiser solution of "single line reefing" whereby one line goes through the reef clew AND the reef tack, and goes all over the deck back to a cockpit winch. Guess what? It didn't work. The friction was horrendous and small amounts of sail would get sucked into the reef tack by the reef line and jam everything up. Meanwhile the sail battens flogged the port (amsteel) lazyjack to death.

Seriously, some of this lazy-man's cruising stuff just doesn't work when the ****ski hits the fanski. Yesterday's experience seriously validated my strong preference for having halyards and reefing lines AT THE MAST. (JohnEisberg I can actually see the grin on your face here) 

Finally got reef 2 in, well enough at least, and continued sailling for another hour or so, in the SHEETING DRIVING rain with the wind being very gusty and squirrely from 25-35 true. 

















Then, after playing around skipper decided it was time to go in. He declared the voyage sucessful because we had broken stuff. (I really like sailing with Mike ) Besides the beast appeared to be done having its way with us, and the weather was quickly quieting down. 









Then, we were treated to the most spectacularly vivid and bright rainbow I've ever seen in my life. At one point I was shirking my duties as a deck-slave in order to take photos, for which the skipper admonished me, followed almost immediately by a call from the skipper to get his camera. 


















Medsailor looking like a drowned rat.









Back at the dock we were treated to an awesome sunset. 









This was my first sail of the season. I'd call it pretty sucessful: 
We sailed.
We saw gale force winds.
Ass was kicked. (ours)
We broke stuff (somebody else's stuff, the best kind to break).
And we either scared off 2 newbies for life, or made lifers out of them.

Finally, my impression of the 1,000yard stare after facing the monster. I was really hard to keep a straight face while having this picture taken and I gotta say that it's really hard to try and look bad ass with rainbows in the background.









So, Smack. Is that good enough for a stamp?

MedSailor


----------



## smackdaddy

Oh hell yeah!!


















Freakin' awesome Med!!!!!!!!!!!!

That, my friends, is how sailing is done.


----------



## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> Oh hell yeah!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freakin' awesome Med!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> That, my friends, is how sailing is done.


A double stamp!  Thanks Smack! And since I like to give back.....Here ya' go.

When I was picking out foulweather gear, I kinda' had a feeling we might be in for an ass kicking, so I dressed for war. But under the heavy duty foulies, I threw this old thing on. Look familiar?

"Arrrrr!!!" (that's not really my pirate face. I was just blinded by the sun  )









MedSailor


----------



## smackdaddy

The first double ever awarded (both BFS and rainbows). Congrats dude. You earned it.

Oh, and I'm stealing all these photos and your write up for the BFS Hall of Fame.

Now I gotta go...I'm getting a bit....misty.


----------



## MarkofSeaLife

Medsailor.

Have a look at your photos of the double rainbow.

Notice that between the two rainbows the sky appears darker than outside the twin rainbows?

Your photos are an excellent example of whats called Alexanders Dark Band.




Mark


----------



## MedSailor

I have to put in a plug for my new phone, which I am in love with. Why? Because it's a smart phone and *it's submersible!* All the photos taken in my BFS report above were with this phone's camera and believe you me, it. Got. Wet. Sure, there are some great cases for phones these days that make them waterproof, but this ensures you're protected from the wet, at all times, without the clunky case.

My previous phone was a Samsung sumbersible phone, so they are not new to the submersible phone market. Trust me, I stress tested the old one.  They also retained my favorite feature from the last one. A flashlight built into the phone that can be accessed with one button press from a button on the outside of the phone. No needing to mess around loading up an flashlight app. The light is always there for instant access. I know it doesn't sound like much, but once you have this feature, you'll never want to be without it again.

Here are the specs on the Samsung Galaxy S4 Active:
Samsung Galaxy S4 Active specs

Take note of the "active" part at the end. It's basically the same phone as the S4 but some rubber gasketing and other changes mean that cases and holsters may not be compatible. Chargers and such are compatible with the more widely sold S4.
















What is a phone review doing on the BFS thread? Well if you don't photograph it and post it, it didn't happen! You have to have a camera that will survive your BFS! Also, something as simple as putting your local Coast Guard station's dispatch phone number on speed dial can turn this puppy into a piece of safety equipment. Fall overboard while sailing solo? Call the CG from your phone. Remember to make a voice activated shortcut for this number though, because the touchpad doesn't work well when soaked. For example, my voice activation shortcut for calling the coast guard is, "Heeeeeelp! Shaaark!" 

MedSailor


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - that's pretty damn cool.


----------



## chall03

I can't see an apple logo anywhere on your phone........oh well


----------



## Minnewaska

MedSailor said:


> ....Because it's a smart phone and *it's submersible!*.....


Cool phone for sure. The specs says its rated IP67. The 7 stands for water resistant to 1 meter. The photo of the snorkelor would seem a bit deceptive by the manufacturer.

In my personal experience, water tight ratings are only reliable to be about half their depth rating. Behind that was a crap shoot.

Nevertheless, great phone for a boat, where simply getting wet isn't an issue.


----------



## MedSailor

Minnewaska said:


> Cool phone for sure. The specs says its rated IP67. The 7 stands for water resistant to 1 meter. The photo of the snorkelor would seem a bit deceptive by the manufacturer.
> 
> In my personal experience, water tight ratings are only reliable to be about half their depth rating. Behind that was a crap shoot.
> 
> Nevertheless, great phone for a boat, where simply getting wet isn't an issue.


Interesting, my experience says they're conservative. My pentax optio camera and samsung Xplorer B2100 are both devices that I take with me when swiming, surfing, falling overboard etc.

Having a waterproof phone could save having a dead one for those unexpected BFS's. This one didn't give us all a lot of warning and maybe some of the other folks wouldn't have put on their waterproof cases. I know I was suprized at just how soaked the phone was in my pocket when I pulled it out. I've had more than one "water resistant" device die from being in a damp bag as well.

Also, the phone has already paid for itself one other time. My 2 year old spilled an entire glass of milk onto it. Not exactly the kind of think that makes for an impressive story, but the phone lived!

MedSailor


----------



## smackdaddy

Had a GREAT weekend at the boat! Spent Saturday working on several projects - including the water tank - which I'll write up in my "Million Questions" thread...then the boys and I took her out this morning for our very first time on our own (just me and the boys - no crew). Gusting to 25 knots - and she handled like a dream (video soon). And the boys were perfect helping to crew and helping when we got back to the dock.

For me, this is what happiness is all about. I can't wait to take her beyond the jetties for the first time this summer.

Woohoo!


----------



## chall03

Awesome Smack.

Hey, Can I borrow the stamp for a sec????










There you go.


----------



## gamayun

smackdaddy said:


> For me, this is what happiness is all about. I can't wait to take her beyond the jetties for the first time this summer.
> 
> Woohoo!


Woohoo, is right  Maybe it's the newness of it all, but I am filled with this joy, too, when I sail. I don't have any pictures, so here's just a synopsis from this past weekend. On Saturday, I was in the Singlehand Sailing Society's (SSS) 'Round the Rocks' race on San Francisco Bay. It was 19.2 nm starting near Berkeley; then around Alcatraz Island, Harding Rock and Angel Island; down wind to Red Rock and The Brothers; with the finish at Richmond Yacht Club. This was my 4th singlehand race. I was a minute late to the start with 9 boats in my division. Winds were gusting to 25 knots (consistent 18-20), with big chop and a strong ebb for the first half. Right around the Richmond Bridge, the wind died to 6 knots and we were fighting a strong flood, which does some squirrely things next to those big rocks. I stayed the night at the Richmond YC, then singlehanded back across the bay on Sunday, with winds again up to 23 knots, again no reef, keeping pace the whole way with a barge heading to Oakland. No instruments were on -- so had no idea how fast I was going -- just enjoying the moment. Stern tied into my slip. The only snafu was forgetting to open the gate to step off with the spring line. No foul though. It's such a great feeling!


----------



## smackdaddy

We had an awesome time in the UK. 5 days in London, then another 5 traveling around Scotland. The latter blew us away. It qualifies for posting here because we stayed on the small island of Kerrera - a 5 minute ferry ride from the exquisite town of Oban. Kerrera had a really nice marina with some beautiful boats, as well as a couple of houses, one of which we'd rented. Of course, I walked the docks a bit...










...and was invited aboard a handsome HR 36 CC, after helping the group load some of their provisions...including some fine whiskey which they graciously shared. Great bunch of people up from London for a week's cruise around the islands.

As for Oban - I'm sailing back there. No doubt. That place is heaven.






We traveled over to Iona, then it was over to Edinburgh for some kilts and a climb up Arthur's Seat with the boys....










Okay, the last one is in no way sailing related - but it was freakin' awesome.

Scotland...we love ye!


----------



## Minnewaska

Smack, glad you had a nice trip with the boys. I'm about a quarter Scot and traveled their nearly 30 years ago. One of the most beautiful places in the world and I'm dying to go back. I found the accents so strong that it was hard to understand the King's english. What a great place it would be to sail to.

p.s. I'm a Macallan guy myself.


----------



## chamonix

Glad you liked Scotland! Oban on a sunny day, you were truly blessed. It was one of my favorite places to go when I was a Kid. Note to self: My son is the only one in the family who has not been back to the old country yet, need to do something about that.


----------



## mstern

Well done Smack. Was wondering where you been at. My family went to France and London last summer; what a trip. Now I want to go to Scotland!


----------



## abrahamx

I cruised up the fjords there near scotland and norway. Very cool!


----------



## ScottUK

Disappointed you didn't let me know you were in Ecosse Smack.


----------



## ScottUK

> I found the accents so strong that it was hard to understand


Some TV show made in Scotland had sub-titles when broadcast done South.


----------



## smackdaddy

ScottUK said:


> Disappointed you didn't let me know you were in Ecosse Smack.


Are you in Edinburgh, Scott? I posted about our trip in another thread asking someone to let us steal their boat. No takers.

Sorry we missed you.


----------



## ScottUK

I'm on the River Clyde outside of Glasgow. Though my time here is now short because I'm going to the States to look for a bigger boat. I have done a lot of sailing out of Oban in years past but now mostly pass through on an annual race up to Tobermory. Now that you have had a small dose it sounds like you want to come back cruising. I don't blame you. There are a lot of places to park up for the night. The area doesn't get a lot of cruisers due to the colder weather. Sorry I missed you too.


----------



## smackdaddy

Wow.


----------



## Don L

bare poles and dragging "something"

I don't show stuff like this to my wife!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## zeehag

dear smacky baby, 
margo roark, aka flysci, has earned her ragged wings. 
she, directed by me, sailed through a papagayo. she only used one single reef. i think id a done at least second reef point-- so, lady who studies flies of fruit variety has earned the bfs tee shirt.
oh yeah-- she used a sloop. when i sailed my huge chubasco i used 2 small sails on a ketch....she wins!!!
i told her reef n run..... whooooot.... and wow.

yeah. the main blew

i forgot to say she is sailing from costa rica, quepos, to chiapas, mexico, then from chiapas mexico to barra de navidad, jalisco mexico, some 20 mi north of manzanillo.. 
yes she knows it is furycame season, and yes we have her back.
hell she not doin bad--she got there from bern , conn, originally....lol


----------



## smackdaddy

zeehag said:


> dear smacky baby,
> margo roark, aka flysci, has earned her ragged wings.
> she, directed by me, sailed through a papagayo. she only used one single reef. i think id a done at least second reef point-- so, lady who studies flies of fruit variety has earned the bfs tee shirt.
> oh yeah-- she used a sloop. when i sailed my huge chubasco i used 2 small sails on a ketch....she wins!!!
> i told her reef n run..... whooooot.... and wow.
> 
> yeah. the main blew
> 
> i forgot to say she is sailing from costa rica, quepos, to chiapas, mexico, then from chiapas mexico to barra de navidad, jalisco mexico, some 20 mi north of manzanillo..
> yes she knows it is furycame season, and yes we have her back.
> hell she not doin bad--she got there from bern , conn, originally....lol


Oh hell yeah!!










Zee - tell her to create an account at the shop and I'll definitely throw her a free tee. I'll even throw in a couple of extra goodies if she does a write up here about it.


----------



## smackdaddy

MedSailor said:


> A double stamp!  Thanks Smack! And since I like to give back.....Here ya' go.
> 
> When I was picking out foulweather gear, I kinda' had a feeling we might be in for an ass kicking, so I dressed for war. But under the heavy duty foulies, I threw this old thing on. Look familiar?
> 
> "Arrrrr!!!" (that's not really my pirate face. I was just blinded by the sun  )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MedSailor


You, sir, are now a Hall of Famer. Check the pic on the Home Page - and the Featured Throwdown.


----------



## zeehag

oh i failed to mention, that most folks who know me get a wild ride on their way to this port--even i did--lol mine was only a chubasco of 60 kts, but, hell that wasnt anything after some of those severe storms in gom.. shoot those are wicked...
message sent, thankyou!!

post scriptum
from Margo Roark
7:15 PM 

to me 
"The sailing was fun and fast! Ron hand steered for hours. Made great time for awhile. I think the sail opened along a seam, so we wouldn't need anymore material. So if someone has a tough machine and the right thread, and the space to spread it out that would be great. 
We are having a great time. Keep us up to date on any possible storms forming. Can't wait to get there for the partay!"


----------



## Salamander

Boasun said:


> Yeah! I love it when a wind gust causes the spreaders to touch the water just before we ease the sails a little and stand the boat back up again.
> The looks on the newbies faces is something to enjoy....


Was that before or after you broached?


----------



## zeehag

boasun you scare your noobs!!!! i just make em seasick...lol


----------



## smackdaddy

Camper's a pretty nice boat. Definitely BFS-worthy.










*Check it out HERE.*


----------



## smackdaddy

Off to Alicante for some serious BFS-related adventure. Stay tuned.


----------



## Andrew65

What's a guy have to do to get a BFS stamp of approval and a t-shirt?


----------



## XPatriot

*Re: sailortjk1*



smackdaddy said:


> the dog got seasick and the wife got mad


:d


----------



## Andrew65

How's this contribution? October 1995, l was crew on an engineless 29ft sloop. The owner, a non-sailing woman and me. I figured it would add to my skills for a trip from Florida to Belize and back. A fine sail down to Isle Mujeres it was to enter. While there l met a norwegian girl and had 9 fun days with her. 2 ships that pass in the night we thought. Engineless is interesting, but on with the story. It is about a 6 day sleigh ride home from Belize. Ours took 16 early January. SW of Cuba it didn't look good. The winds went too light and dark ominous clouds were interlaced with heat lightning. An awesome spectacle. The next day high headwinds and building seas. Easily 15ft+ heavy rollers out of the north, but not breaking. Absurd weather for January. We heave-to with a parachute and watch for chafe. Several hours go by, then boom, our rudder gets a smash from a breaking wave that breaks the tiller. Jury rigged with vice-grips we sail on into the night. The owner wants to get home. We make it through one night, but not the next night without further damage. We loose the mast over the spreaders. The weather hasn't changed. It's cold. We aren't prepared for it. We jury-rig again, secure what we can, and sail on. The boat is starting to look like ****e inside and fatigue is showing its ugly head. The next night we lose the whole shooting match over the side. He likes yelling, l don't. I know he's tired and scared, so is the woman. Just getting finished fishing in Alaska for a year myself, I'm ok. Now we rig the boom as our mast and take the jibhead to the bow, tack to the top of the mast and sheets to the clew. It starts to become apparent l have a more level head about things and the "captain" doesn't like it. Hell, l seen this kind of stuff in Alaska. For example, his favorite knot is 8 clove hitches to secure the mast and just balks at my trucker hitch suggestion. "Hummf, what do you know about sailing!" Nothing but a 100 ton cert and my AB card hasn't taught me l say. Anyhow, rigged, we sail on. They run out of cigarettes. Anyone who knows this problem, knows it's a problem. Irritation sets in without them quickly. We have water, but food is a problem now. The weather is abating. For the next days we each get one bowl of rice each day. 3 days later, we flare a fishing boat, bum Kent menthols, some rolls and sail onwards. I got to hand it to him though, we popped out of the clouds 2 days later at home. He and the woman dingy in to rent a tow, spend the night, and get me the next day. We sailed through "The Blizzard of 96" (Look it up on the NOAA website). I go see my friends who give me a letter from a crazy norwegian girl who was here looking for me. It reads "Call me, I'm pregnant "...., but that is another story. 

Lesson learned you ask? Quality condoms are a must for cruising.


----------



## oysterman23

Hmmm.....less than resonant...if this was a truth or fiction thread i fear i'd vote nay....


----------



## Andrew65

Wow, you mean, you don't believe my sail???


----------



## Seafarer

My very first time sailing my own boat, I was 15 and had just bought a Hobie 16. It was a beautiful day and I had no idea what I was doing besides what I'd read in books. Some other sailors helped me to rig it, and one loaned me his attractive daughter to be crew. One of the best days of sailing I've ever had. 

This story is about my second attempt. That one didn't go as well. I brought a friend who'd never been on a boat before in his life, and we pulled the sails up with the boat facing downwind... and blowing 20 knots. I thought I was pretty smart when the catamaran launched itself right off the beach and all we had to do was jump aboard. 
The bay is a couple miles across, and it looked like we were going to cross it in only a few minutes. I tried to turn off the wind and immediately buried the leeward bow, so I turned back downwind and tried to figure out what else I could do.
Having seen pictures of sailboats going upwind with only the jib, I decided that we should pull down the main. It had reefing points, but I didn't have any line to reef with, so down came the whole thing. It didn't slow the boat down any, and now I learned that catamarans need the mainsail to go upwind. I was still heading across the bay, going just as fast, and no hope of going any other direction.
Figuring to do less damage if I hit the lee shore going more slowly, I danced out on the bow to drop the jib, while my friend steered. To this day I have no idea how he managed not to see it, but he ran us straight into a channel marker piling. I managed to dive onto the trampoline before we hit, and the bridle stretched back, the mast stood up straight, and then the whole boat bounced back a good five feet! I grabbed the tiller and steered us around the piling, then aimed the bows at the only patch of sandy shore I could spot and handed the tiller back. Dumb luck that at this point I didn't know the rig should have been tight; that is probably all that kept a bow from snapping off. I danced out on the bow again and finished dropping the jib, and we slowed down to probably five knots under the bare mast.
I took the tiller back and guided it to the shore. When we beached, it turned out to be a trailer park, and a little wandering around brought us to the office where I called home for ride. We left the boat on the beach for the night, and I returned the next day. The wind wasn't blowing any less, but I'd brought a line to tie in the reefs. Up went only the reduced mainsail, and off I went for an upwind slog across the bay. It took a lot longer, but was a hell of a lot more fun!


----------



## smackdaddy

Andrew65 said:


> How's this contribution? October 1995, l was crew on an engineless 29ft sloop. The owner, a non-sailing woman and me. I figured it would add to my skills for a trip from Florida to Belize and back. A fine sail down to Isle Mujeres it was to enter. While there l met a norwegian girl and had 9 fun days with her. 2 ships that pass in the night we thought. Engineless is interesting, but on with the story. It is about a 6 day sleigh ride home from Belize. Ours took 16 early January. SW of Cuba it didn't look good. The winds went too light and dark ominous clouds were interlaced with heat lightning. An awesome spectacle. The next day high headwinds and building seas. Easily 15ft+ heavy rollers out of the north, but not breaking. Absurd weather for January. We heave-to with a parachute and watch for chafe. Several hours go by, then boom, our rudder gets a smash from a breaking wave that breaks the tiller. Jury rigged with vice-grips we sail on into the night. The owner wants to get home. We make it through one night, but not the next night without further damage. We loose the mast over the spreaders. The weather hasn't changed. It's cold. We aren't prepared for it. We jury-rig again, secure what we can, and sail on. The boat is starting to look like ****e inside and fatigue is showing its ugly head. The next night we lose the whole shooting match over the side. He likes yelling, l don't. I know he's tired and scared, so is the woman. Just getting finished fishing in Alaska for a year myself, I'm ok. Now we rig the boom as our mast and take the jibhead to the bow, tack to the top of the mast and sheets to the clew. It starts to become apparent l have a more level head about things and the "captain" doesn't like it. Hell, l seen this kind of stuff in Alaska. For example, his favorite knot is 8 clove hitches to secure the mast and just balks at my trucker hitch suggestion. "Hummf, what do you know about sailing!" Nothing but a 100 ton cert and my AB card hasn't taught me l say. Anyhow, rigged, we sail on. They run out of cigarettes. Anyone who knows this problem, knows it's a problem. Irritation sets in without them quickly. We have water, but food is a problem now. The weather is abating. For the next days we each get one bowl of rice each day. 3 days later, we flare a fishing boat, bum Kent menthols, some rolls and sail onwards. I got to hand it to him though, we popped out of the clouds 2 days later at home. He and the woman dingy in to rent a tow, spend the night, and get me the next day. We sailed through "The Blizzard of 96" (Look it up on the NOAA website). I go see my friends who give me a letter from a crazy norwegian girl who was here looking for me. It reads "Call me, I'm pregnant "...., but that is another story.
> 
> Lesson learned you ask? Quality condoms are a must for cruising.


Oh hell yeah!!










Unfortunately, we don't sell BFS Condoms. Yet.


----------



## smackdaddy

Seafarer said:


> My very first time sailing my own boat, I was 15 and had just bought a Hobie 16. It was a beautiful day and I had no idea what I was doing besides what I'd read in books. Some other sailors helped me to rig it, and one loaned me his attractive daughter to be crew. One of the best days of sailing I've ever had.
> 
> This story is about my second attempt. That one didn't go as well. I brought a friend who'd never been on a boat before in his life, and we pulled the sails up with the boat facing downwind... and blowing 20 knots. I thought I was pretty smart when the catamaran launched itself right off the beach and all we had to do was jump aboard.
> The bay is a couple miles across, and it looked like we were going to cross it in only a few minutes. I tried to turn off the wind and immediately buried the leeward bow, so I turned back downwind and tried to figure out what else I could do.
> Having seen pictures of sailboats going upwind with only the jib, I decided that we should pull down the main. It had reefing points, but I didn't have any line to reef with, so down came the whole thing. It didn't slow the boat down any, and now I learned that catamarans need the mainsail to go upwind. I was still heading across the bay, going just as fast, and no hope of going any other direction.
> Figuring to do less damage if I hit the lee shore going more slowly, I danced out on the bow to drop the jib, while my friend steered. To this day I have no idea how he managed not to see it, but he ran us straight into a channel marker piling. I managed to dive onto the trampoline before we hit, and the bridle stretched back, the mast stood up straight, and then the whole boat bounced back a good five feet! I grabbed the tiller and steered us around the piling, then aimed the bows at the only patch of sandy shore I could spot and handed the tiller back. Dumb luck that at this point I didn't know the rig should have been tight; that is probably all that kept a bow from snapping off. I danced out on the bow again and finished dropping the jib, and we slowed down to probably five knots under the bare mast.
> I took the tiller back and guided it to the shore. When we beached, it turned out to be a trailer park, and a little wandering around brought us to the office where I called home for ride. We left the boat on the beach for the night, and I returned the next day. The wind wasn't blowing any less, but I'd brought a line to tie in the reefs. Up went only the reduced mainsail, and off I went for an upwind slog across the bay. It took a lot longer, but was a hell of a lot more fun!


Sailing with a hot chick and not hitting stuff is way more fun. Here's my beach cat story:

*FIASCO*


----------



## smackdaddy

Alicante is really a nice place.










And VOR headquarters was especially cool.










I smell a serious BFS on the horizon.


----------



## Dave_E

This past week we were on our second cruise of the summer to Victoria, BC. After leaving Victoria, we headed north up Harow Straight towards Roche Harbor on San Juan Island. We had a following wind almost 180 degrees around 15k. We flew wing and wing with the 150 poled out for quite some time. Gradually the wind kept picking up and we had to steer right to hold a course toward our destination, that put the wind around 160 - 170 to us, so I brought the genoa over to the port side and gradually had to roll it in to where I only had about a storms jib worth of sail out. The main was still up all the way. The apparant wind was now in the vicinity of 22-26k and we were going 6k. It was about that time that I realized we were out in about as much weather as our good ship should safely take (going by the rule of thumb). There was a boat following us... same track and he had no main up but full foresail. I thought about that and decided to stay with what I had up. The ride was fair, had to work the rudder a fair amount as we were surfing with the waves on our starboard quarter. 

It showed me my boat can go downwind with 30k of wind and handle it well. I'm guessing that if I was on about any other point of sail it might have been "real sporty".  This was by far our "biggest freakin sail". 

Dave


----------



## smackdaddy

Oh hell yeah!!


----------



## jackdale

The crossing from BVI to Panama was uneventful except for a storm force squall at night that lasted 45 minutes. One crew member claims we hit 16.3 knots. I was too busy dealing with a main.

Flying home on Friday.


----------



## smackdaddy

jackdale said:


> The crossing from BVI to Panama was uneventful except for a storm force squall at night that lasted 45 minutes. One crew member claims we hit 16.3 knots. I was too busy dealing with a main.
> 
> Flying home on Friday.


Pics my good man!!!!


----------



## jackdale

smackdaddy said:


> Pics my good man!!!!


I have some good shots of the boat, the marina and a couple underway. No canal transit for us, although the two boats that came across with us are going through on their way to Peru.

I will have some time on Saturday.


----------



## smackdaddy

Hmmm.

When I search on Youtube for Hunter sailboats doing big sails (crossings, passages, etc.) - I see very few offerings.











And that's just not right. Hunters obviously rock.

I think the boys and I will need to change that. So stay tuned.


----------



## smackdaddy

Check this out!!! BFS Hall of Famer PeterChech throwin' down on his H25!!!






AND some PBR product placement!!!

Go chech!!


----------



## ultraclyde

Okay, I had a BFS this weekend. Well, actually, it's a small freakin sail to anyone else, but I just started sailing. This was my third time actually taking a boat out. I've had no training, but I did read Sailing for Dummies ( no, really.) The admiral and I took out 14' daysailer (with 110 sq ft of sail and no way to reef) out on the lake since we actually had good wind for the first time since we bought the boat. As we were rigging in the ramp parking lot two other sailboats - an AMF 17 and a 25' weekender headed out. Main up, jib up, we headed out of the cove dead down wind. As we hit the main lake both other boats passed us headed back in. Maybe we should have suspected something....

We ended up running a broad reach straight up the lake under full sail with 13 kt sustained winds and off-weather gusts close to 22 kts. I didn't have a clue what I was doing, but the little boat was smoking along. The gusts were kicking us over pretty well but not enough to get a rail in water. I had the sail trimmed way loose to bleed some power though. My wife hasn't even read the book and she managed to fight the jib successfully through the whole affair. After an hour we turned her through the wind and came back down the lake for another hour, then started fighting dead into the wind up the narrow cove to the ramp. Once I realized we were progressing dead astern we decided to switch to motor. We eventually managed to take down both sails - my wife climbed up on the foredeck and took down the hank-on jib then we took down the main while I fought the motor and tiller to head into the gusts. Both were major fights of "How the hell do you do this??!!" Once down we motored up the cove (Minn Kota C30, big power) and dropped anchor to drink a couple cold beers and collect our thoughts before hitting the trailer.

If you had any experience sailing at all it would have been a perfect day on the lake, not a BFS at all. I learned a lot, and by next season I'll be praying for wind like that, but it sure made for a tense, exciting ride THIS time. We were both worn out by the time we got to the dock.


----------



## smackdaddy

ultraclyde said:


> Okay, I had a BFS this weekend. Well, actually, it's a small freakin sail to anyone else, but I just started sailing. This was my third time actually taking a boat out. I've had no training, but I did read Sailing for Dummies ( no, really.) The admiral and I took out 14' daysailer (with 110 sq ft of sail and no way to reef) out on the lake since we actually had good wind for the first time since we bought the boat. As we were rigging in the ramp parking lot two other sailboats - an AMF 17 and a 25' weekender headed out. Main up, jib up, we headed out of the cove dead down wind. As we hit the main lake both other boats passed us headed back in. Maybe we should have suspected something....
> 
> We ended up running a broad reach straight up the lake under full sail with 13 kt sustained winds and off-weather gusts close to 22 kts. I didn't have a clue what I was doing, but the little boat was smoking along. The gusts were kicking us over pretty well but not enough to get a rail in water. I had the sail trimmed way loose to bleed some power though. My wife hasn't even read the book and she managed to fight the jib successfully through the whole affair. After an hour we turned her through the wind and came back down the lake for another hour, then started fighting dead into the wind up the narrow cove to the ramp. Once I realized we were progressing dead astern we decided to switch to motor. We eventually managed to take down both sails - my wife climbed up on the foredeck and took down the hank-on jib then we took down the main while I fought the motor and tiller to head into the gusts. Both were major fights of "How the hell do you do this??!!" Once down we motored up the cove (Minn Kota C30, big power) and dropped anchor to drink a couple cold beers and collect our thoughts before hitting the trailer.
> 
> If you had any experience sailing at all it would have been a perfect day on the lake, not a BFS at all. I learned a lot, and by next season I'll be praying for wind like that, but it sure made for a tense, exciting ride THIS time. We were both worn out by the time we got to the dock.


You're going out when other boats are coming in?

Oh hell yeah!!










Great job ultra! Perfect example of a BFS.


----------



## smackdaddy

The boys and I had a great time hanging out with RTB (and his wife) and bob77903 down near Galveston. It's always great to meet up with SNers and talk BFS.

RTB's wife even gave us a chart for the Gulf! Now I can actually claim to have an actual paper chart aboard!

Also installed lazy jacks! Write up for that coming soon in my other thread.

Thanks RTB and bob77903!


----------



## Multihullgirl

Friends, and we, video'ed some of our BFS (well they were BFS to us):

Dauphin Island Race, 2011





First charter in the BVI





Getting our cat home, last leg, from Sarasota to Pensacola:


----------



## RTB

smackdaddy said:


> The boys and I had a great time hanging out with RTB (and his wife) and bob77903 down near Galveston. It's always great to meet up with SNers and talk BFS.


Hey, thanks for lunch and great conversation. You and your sons are looking good. Wow, I forgot how young boys can eat.

Ralph


----------



## Caribbeachbum

Freshwater reservoir last Saturday (Percy Priest Lake, Nashville), winds about 18MPH sustained with 30+MPH, long-duration gusts. Pulled out of marina around 11am, lots of boats out, including a dinghy regatta getting underway.

Rocketed down the lake under main-only. The Kelt 7.60 sails beautifully and is well balanced under only the main when properly trimmed. Thirty-forty minutes or so later, tacked in front of the dam and headed back up the lake.

Surprised - no boats in sight. Sure, the wind freshened a bit, but no reason for everyone else to race to the marina. The wife and I were having a blast, yanking the boat around, sailing this small (but blue-water-capable) boat around like it was a dinghy. Awesome! Of course, we were being reckless and having fun. So yes, we had not one, but two uncommanded jibes, which are quite scary when the wind is kicking up this hard!

Booming up the lake on a perfect beam reach, the boat was on a 20-degree heel with just the main up. Just friggin' BIG. More recklesness, I decided hey, let's let out the genoa! Brilliant! Shortly after I started, the wind caught it and unfurled it for me. Gotta tail that furling line! The sheet was cleated loosely and the sail powerered up; and then the boat went waaaayyy over. I thought we might fall out, but naturally the rudder came out of the water and the ass-end of the boat slid around, luffing the sails into the wind. If anyone needs an concise description of a broach, please send 'em to me...

Anyway, last turn into the wind and my main just gave up:










Here's to a perfect day!


----------



## smackdaddy

Multihullgirl said:


> Friends, and we, video'ed some of our BFS (well they were BFS to us):
> 
> Dauphin Island Race, 2011
> Dauphin Island Race 2011 - YouTube
> 
> First charter in the BVI
> BVI Trip 2007 Weather.mov - YouTube
> 
> Getting our cat home, last leg, from Sarasota to Pensacola:
> Offshore Pensacola - YouTube
> Tom Stokes driving, offshore panhandle Florida - YouTube


Sorry - a little late coming into this one...but definitely...

Oh hell yeah!!


----------



## Slayer

From Scituate to Boston Harbor yesterday. 15 knot winds gusting to 30 with 3-5 foot seas. We were sailing a Pearson 36 with only a 135 genoa, no Main. The rails were in the water and water splashing across the bow. Felt like temps were in the low forties; not sure but my nipples were harder than Chinese Algebra. I've sailed in bigger winds and seas but got video of this to post. So maybe not BFS, but some yahoo moments!!!


----------



## smackdaddy

Slayer said:


> From Scituate to Boston Harbor yesterday. 15 knot winds gusting to 30 with 3-5 foot seas. We were sailing a Pearson 36 with only a 135 genoa, no Main. The rails were in the water and water splashing across the bow. Felt like temps were in the low forties; not sure but my nipples were harder than Chinese Algebra. I've sailed in bigger winds and seas but got video of this to post. So maybe not BFS, but some yahoo moments!!!







Oh hell yeah!!


----------



## ianjoub

Slayer said:


> From Scituate to Boston Harbor yesterday. 15 knot winds gusting to 30 with 3-5 foot seas. We were sailing a Pearson 36 with only a 135 genoa, no Main. The rails were in the water and water splashing across the bow. Felt like temps were in the low forties; not sure but my nipples were harder than Chinese Algebra. I've sailed in bigger winds and seas but got video of this to post. So maybe not BFS, but some yahoo moments!!!


Ahhh, I grew up in Scituate. I was hoping to catch a pic of the harbor. I'm sure it has changed a bit, I moved out in '83...


----------



## Slayer

ianjoub said:


> Ahhh, I grew up in Scituate. I was hoping to catch a pic of the harbor. I'm sure it has changed a bit, I moved out in '83...


Check my photo albums. I got a handful there, but they are not too great. Shot with my iPad


----------



## smackdaddy

After much prayer and deliberation, my boys and I have decided that it's time for me to start a speaking tour:

*SMACKSPEAK*

I'll wait by the phone.


----------



## Minnewaska

If you can convince anyone to pay you to speak, I'll bet they will pay again to get you to stop. Brilliant.


----------



## ccriders

There's a group of 470 owners down here prepping for an around the world race starting in January. I can get you in touch with them for 10%. Let me know.
John


----------



## smackdaddy

Dang. I'm already booked at The Hague in January. I'm on a panel with Nobel winner Malala discussing The Pros and Cons of Steel Sailboats.


----------



## Don L

What bunch of bull, put a bucket in it!


----------



## Capt Len

He'd need a blue water bucket and doesn't know what's a ???


----------



## BeJewel

Interesting and fun. I'll check back again. Got nothin' to add right now.


----------



## Multihullgirl

Exactly two years ago today, we were on the backside of SANDY, sailing down the Chesapeake headed for home:




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10151155899603591


----------



## ccriders

Don0190 said:


> What bunch of bull, put a bucket in it!


What a fine tuned sense of humor.
John


----------



## TakeFive

TakeFive said:


> If you look at the timeline on Facebook, you'll see that the boat acquisition video that was posted on Youtube in late August actually had stills posted on Facebook in March (and may have actually happened even earlier than that). So at that point, there was actually a 5+ month lag between the events that occurred and the slick videos that were posted.
> 
> It makes me wonder how much raw or produced video was already "in the can" before it hit YouTube.
> 
> Corporate sponsors often want to know what they are getting into before signing on. "Near random" rarely gets funded. I suspect they went to the sponsors with footage in hand.
> 
> I realize that the tools for professional quality video editing are easily accessible. But I also realize that accessing audio loops and other resources is easy if you have high speed data connection, but not so sure that shoreline towns in Panama have that available. (Maybe some of the cruisers here can let us know.)
> 
> Purely speculation on my part, but I have a feeling that we are watching events that occurred many months ago, and they're dribbling them out on us in a methodical fashion to maximize the dramatic impact. Does Panama have any seasonal changes to their botany that might show up in the videos? It's still enjoyable to see the videos, but their professionalism makes them look sort of like reality TV.
> 
> I think Nike's background is brand management and social media marketing. So it would appear that she knows what she's doing with that part of the venture.


Hmm, looks like I was right about production delays and editing done in Europe instead of Panama. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but it sounds like someone blasted her for it, and it seems to have gotten under her skin:


----------



## Kyhillbilly

I follow her videos and look forward to them. Yea there must have been some petty bitching about that. For what reason I have no idea. Love her videos and glad she does them for land locked wannabes like me to watch and enjoy.


----------



## smackdaddy

I looked at the comments. It's ridiculous that she got called out on something like that.

At the same time, she shouldn't have responded with a video like that. It was excruciating to watch. Sometime you just have to let haters hate. Trust me, I know.


----------



## smackdaddy

More young punks doing it up right!!!!

SAILING IS SEXY | Two ocean lovers sailing around the world from San Francisco, California. Inspiring others to do what they dream of and enjoy life's wild ride.


----------



## Minnewaska

I'm no hater, I've watched every episode and enjoy the idea of her alleged dream.

However, I suspected from the beginning that there was a fraud behind the story and said so. I still think there is more, she had more assistance on the rebuild and selection of Karl than she admitted. The problem is the fraud is not necessary, it would be cool anyway.


----------



## smackdaddy

Minnewaska said:


> I'm no hater, I've watched every episode and enjoy the idea of her alleged dream.
> 
> However, I suspected from the beginning that there was a fraud behind the story and said so. I still think there is more, she had more assistance on the rebuild and selection of Karl than she admitted. The problem is the fraud is not necessary, it would be cool anyway.


Man, I hope that's not the case. One of the things I've admired about Nike the most is her ingenuity and ability to do a great job on anything she tackles. It would suck if that's faked.


----------



## ccriders

Minnie,
What fraud are you suspecting?
John


----------



## mstern

I've watched all of the episodes, and I'm not really bothered at all by the new "revelation" that she was back in Europe when some of the installments were posted. It would have been nice to know, but I don't feel duped. It's not like she was never in the San Blas actually living large.

But like any "reality" show, some of the shots were undoubtedly staged for better effect. Given the ubiquity of this kind of entertainment these days (and I use the word "entertainment" ironically here), I doubt anyone really felt they were watching anything other than an edited, managed view of Nike's world. 

Short of a massive fraud like Nike really had a team of workers and crew there to help her (is that what you're thinking Minne?), I don't see the big deal here. 

Seems to me that she jumped into a cruising fantasy and provided us with a video diary. I really don't much care how true to life it is; I was entertained.


----------



## gamayun

Yeah, Nike probably had more help than she let on. Might have even had a boyfriend here or there, and she kept us all in the dark. Makes me question the integrity of everything I see or read on the internet now...


----------



## TakeFive

gamayun said:


> Yeah, Nike probably had more help than she let on. Might have even had a boyfriend here or there, and she kept us all in the dark. Makes me question the integrity of everything I see or read on the internet now...


She made no secret that there were male companions with her at various points. The nature of those relationships is irrelevant to the plot line, and also NOYFB.


----------



## smackdaddy

I was just gratified that she let crusty old dudes cruise around with her. Gives the rest of us hope.


----------



## chall03

Back when she was still at the beginning of the refurb at Shelter Bay the promo video was published showing her sailing around on a cleaner, prettier Karl with brand new lines and sails when in the weekly _diary_ the boat was still a dump.

So while we are playing I told you so, I think at the time I also called it 

I see no huge crime committed. But I have to admit that it does feel a little annoying being lied to for no good reason. All her FB posts etc have been on the same timeline as the videos ie " wow weather here has been crazy this week".

Her story still has good traction though i believe and i will certainly keep following her updates. Lets be real all anyone's online presence, whether it be here, a blog, FB YouTube etc can be is the version of reality we wish to present. (Hey I heard Smack is really a cross dressing truck driver from Manchester )



TakeFive said:


> She made no secret that there were male companions with her at various points. The nature of those relationships is irrelevant to the plot line, and also NOYFB.


I took Gamayun's post as sarcasm FWIW.


----------



## smackdaddy

Actually, I'm from Kent.

Heh-heh.


----------



## drosymor

Knew a lorry driver from Kent once. He had been a Royal Marine Commando CSM. Used to pop ashore frequently - on the German occupied coast of Europe. Interesting cat.


----------



## Minnewaska

ccriders said:


> Minnie,
> What fraud are you suspecting?
> John


I noted it earlier in the thread, when the YouTube channel was originally posted. In early episodes, she is ready to sail away on her newly acquired boat and seemed surprised to find it was in poor condition. Many of the condition issues would have been easily identified.

If you note the significant sponsors on the videos, it seems unbelievable that they would have participated in such uncertainty. The refit was likely anticipated and built to be a fake reality show.

Given the possibility of this fraud in the setup, it would be plausible that the solo refit was fake too. Niki is a marketing professional in Germany. It seems she would be fairly resourceful and I would give a total high five, even if she was coached. However, it just seems unlikely she was as solo as made to appear.


----------



## TakeFive

chall03 said:


> ...All her FB posts etc have been on the same timeline as the videos...


That is simply not true. As I said in a prior message, her first still pic of the boat was posted on Facebook March 6, 2013. Her promo video was posted to YouTube July 24, 2013, and the first episode, where she covered the acquisition of the boat, was posted August 29. There has never been any secret about this.

As for the production delays due to sending raw footage to Europe, I called that one also:


TakeFive said:


> ...But remember, she posts only about 4 minutes of footage every week. So even if she spends all day shooting footage, it's just one day a week. But the editing and music are very slickly done, and could take a whole day just to do that - unless she's sending out the raw footage to someone else who is editing them (and doing a VERY professional job).


But it was dismissed as something that only a geezer would say:


chall03 said:


> ...Ummmm how to I say this kindly to the denizens of Sailnet-I think there is a generational gap thing here as well.....it is not unrealistic at all to find under 30ish, creative, saavy people who with some prior experience with the medium can create videos of this calibre. It is a talent for sure, it does take some setting up, a few go pros mounted here and there, maybe she or the boyfriend has a background in this field somehow, someway, but I doub't there is more to it than that...


So there _is_ more to it than that. There's a production effort in Europe that she sends the raw footage to, when she can get sufficient bandwidth, which in that region can cause some delays.

But I think that suggesting that this is a "fraud" is a bit harsh.


----------



## smackdaddy

Any chick that looks that good in a bikini AND can fix a diesel, can fraud all she wants. That's pure hawtness.


----------



## Minnewaska

Ah, but can she fix a diesel? The bikini is no fraud for sure.


----------



## smackdaddy

Honestly, these kids are rock stars...






Go the Wicked Salty!


----------



## chall03

TakeFive said:


> That is simply not true. As I said in a prior message, her first still pic of the boat was posted on Facebook March 6, 2013. Her promo video was posted to YouTube July 24, 2013, and the first episode, where she covered the acquisition of the boat, was posted August 29. There has never been any secret about this.
> 
> As for the production delays due to sending raw footage to Europe, I called that one also:
> 
> But it was dismissed as something that only a geezer would say:
> 
> So there _is_ more to it than that. There's a production effort in Europe that she sends the raw footage to, when she can get sufficient bandwidth, which in that region can cause some delays.
> 
> But I think that suggesting that this is a "fraud" is a bit harsh.


I think we are arguing the same point?

_timeline_ was perhaps a poor choice of words on my part, I mean't her facebook postings have been written in such a way to follow the video uploads, I do accept and agree with your timeline, and yes you did call it at the time, and no there wasn't any intentional geezer dismissing mean't by me at the time either.

Geezers 1 : Gen Y 0

My point then and I stand by it now is there are plenty of 20 somethings with MacBook Pros who could of produced slick videos of this quality from Panama but yes it looks like hers were edited back in Germany.

I agree fraud is too harsh, i don't recall anyone suggesting it was fraud, I simply said I was annoyed.


----------



## Sal Paradise

smackdaddy said:


> Honestly, these kids are rock stars...
> 
> Mistakes in Open Ocean Sailing - YouTube
> 
> Go the Wicked Salty!


Yeah I like their attitude. Subscribed to that one and went back and watched his first video. . Seemed like they have that mixture of bravado and naivete that goes with that age, in a good way.


----------



## Minnewaska

smackdaddy said:


> Honestly, these kids are rock stars...
> 
> ....snip......
> 
> Go the Wicked Salty!


Awesome! They remind me of every other kid I grew up with on the water.


----------



## JonEisberg

Minnewaska said:


> Awesome! They remind me of every other kid I grew up with on the water.


LOL! Yeah, _"Rock Stars"_, huh? Sorry, but I'm not seeing it...

Perhaps, in a world where every kid with a Perfect Elementary School Attendance Record rates a bumper sticker on some minivan, I suppose...

Or, when sail from the Elizabeth Islands to Narragansett Bay constitutes "open ocean sailing"... )


----------



## Minnewaska

JonEisberg said:


> LOL! Yeah, _"Rock Stars"_, huh? Sorry, but I'm not seeing it...
> 
> Perhaps, in a world where every kid with a Perfect Elementary School Attendance Record rates a bumper sticker on some minivan, I suppose...
> 
> Or, when sail from the Elizabeth Islands to Narragansett Bay constitutes "open ocean sailing"... )


Keep it in context, Jon. The kid just graduated from college, bought his first boat with money made waiting tables and head out. I would have considered Block Island Sound to be open ocean back then too. I think it's pretty cool that they are getting a bit of cruising in before life pins them down for about 30 years.


----------



## JonEisberg

Minnewaska said:


> Keep it in context, Jon. The kid just graduated from college, bought his first boat with money made waiting tables and head out. I would have considered Block Island Sound to be open ocean back then too. I think it's pretty cool that they are getting a bit of cruising in before life pins them down for about 30 years.


Nah, I don't disagree at all... They certainly seem like nice kids, and good on 'em for doing what they're doing, that's great...

But I think many of us here probably did something similar at that point in our lives, no? For me, it was a couple of years of ski-bumming in Jackson Hole immediately after college, among various other rather frivolous pursuits...I doubt I ever came close to achieving "Rock Star" status, however... 

If I'd only had a Go-Pro back in the day, perhaps?

)

To be fair, I haven't bothered to watch any of their other videos, so perhaps there's something I'm missing...


----------



## Minnewaska

All I will say is, I'm pretty happy there are no videos of much of what I was doing at their age. 

Maybe I'm biased, but I think heading off to cruise at 21 is much cooler than backpacking Europe, snow or beach bumming, etc. I pretty much think anyone can backpack Europe. It takes a little something to live aboard and deal with cruising. 

Maybe not exactly Rock Star status to us, but at least a solid winner of Battle of the Bands. However, imagine this. We see a 21 year old kid learning to cruise with his girlfriend. About 60 years from now, that kid is going to be seen by some 12 year old grandchild as a really old man that spoils them rotten, with grey hair, sagging jowls and age spots. They will see their grandfather, as a young man, in that video as a Rock Star, no doubt.


----------



## JonEisberg

Minnewaska said:


> All I will say is, I'm pretty happy there are no videos of much of what I was doing at their age.
> 
> Maybe I'm biased, but I think heading off to cruise at 21 is much cooler than backpacking Europe, snow or beach bumming, etc. I pretty much think anyone can backpack Europe. It takes a little something to live aboard and deal with cruising.


Don't disagree with that at all... All my sailing back then was done on OPBs, and whatever money I could scratch together back in those days went to trying to become a racing driver  I would have been way ahead of the game if I'd sunk that money into a cruising boat, instead... ) Although, that endeavor eventually did wind up morphing into what became my 'career' in photography, so it was all good, in the long run...



Minnewaska said:


> Maybe not exactly Rock Star status to us, but at least a solid winner of Battle of the Bands. However, imagine this. We see a 21 year old kid learning to cruise with his girlfriend. About 60 years from now, that kid is going to be seen by some 12 year old grandchild as a really old man that spoils them rotten, with grey hair, sagging jowls and age spots. They will see their grandfather, as a young man, in that video as a Rock Star, no doubt.


Again, fair enough, and a good point... I was looking at them more in comparison to the reams of contemporaries out there today. For example, the couple on Teleport... If these kids are indeed "Rock Stars", we have to invent a whole 'nother level of exhalted status for folks like Chris and Jess, no?

)


----------



## smackdaddy

JonEisberg said:


> LOL! Yeah, _"Rock Stars"_, huh? Sorry, but I'm not seeing it...


That certainly doesn't surprise me. You are the "let me tell you the thousand ways you are doing it wrong" king around here.

Yes. They are rock stars. What they lack in skill and accomplishment they more than make up for in zest and enthusiasm.

Think about it. There's plenty of room in sailing rockdom for both.

You, on the other hand, are a Muzak Star.


----------



## ccriders

Rock Stars?
My dad spent the years after college, oh he didn't get to go to college, so it was the CCC for a couple of years, then the Border Patrol, then drafted into the Army and sent to Ft Lewis to prep for the I vision of Japan.
I got to go to college and the next few years saw me in Korea and then Viet Nam.
My son graduated college then completed Marine OCS and navy flight training and deployment to Iraq.
While I salute young people's freedom to pursue adventures like sailing Block Island Sound, doing so does not make them Rock Stars any more than the adventures many of us faced upon entering the adult world of work and service.
All of this self aggrandizement via electronic media is getting a little boring, especially when the waves reach four feet and camera gets put away in order to save (sail) the boat.
Oh me, aren't sour grapes wonderful?
John


----------



## smackdaddy

Dude - you're grumpy!


----------



## ccriders

Grumpy? No, just trying to put a little perspective to the "Rock Star" label, while recognizing I'm just a little jealous.
John


----------



## TakeFive

smackdaddy said:


> Honestly, these kids are rock stars...
> 
> Mistakes in Open Ocean Sailing - YouTube
> 
> Go the Wicked Salty!


I don't know about rock stars, but their Facebook page says they're in Solomons, MD, while their YouTube video posted yesterday says they're still back in Newport.

FRAUDZILLA!!! :laugher :laugher :laugher


----------



## gamayun

I'm pushing 50 and I'm female, so maybe my perspective is off, but when I see "kids" like Nike and the Rock Stars actually DOING something adventurous, figuring it out as they go along, making mistakes, and sharing their lessons learned; I think they are THE LEAST segment of society that anyone should be criticizing. Some of you sound like grumpy old men who need someone to fetch a beer because it's too hard to get out of the arm chair with the broken springs. Dance the dance again or let it go already.


----------



## smackdaddy

gamayun said:


> I'm pushing 50 and I'm female, so maybe my perspective is off, but when I see "kids" like Nike and the Rock Stars actually DOING something adventurous, figuring it out as they go along, making mistakes, and sharing their lessons learned; I think they are THE LEAST segment of society that anyone should be criticizing. Some of you sound like grumpy old men who need someone to fetch a beer because it's too hard to get out of the arm chair with the broken springs. Dance the dance again or let it go already.


Preach it sista!


----------



## drosymor

Well said young lady. I must now see if I can get out of my naugahide recliner for more scotch.


----------



## jerryrlitton

....made with genuine nagaus.


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> You, on the other hand, are a Muzak Star.


_OUCH..._ Damn, I hope that doesn't get posted on my blog... or, my youTube channel... not to mention, my Twitter feed...

Oh, wait...

_Nevermind..._

)



ccriders said:


> Rock Stars?
> My dad spent the years after college, oh he didn't get to go to college, so it was the CCC for a couple of years, then the Border Patrol, then drafted into the Army and sent to Ft Lewis to prep for the I vision of Japan.
> I got to go to college and the next few years saw me in Korea and then Viet Nam.
> My son graduated college then completed Marine OCS and navy flight training and deployment to Iraq.
> While I salute young people's freedom to pursue adventures like sailing Block Island Sound, doing so does not make them Rock Stars any more than the adventures many of us faced upon entering the adult world of work and service.
> All of this self aggrandizement via electronic media is getting a little boring, especially when the waves reach four feet and camera gets put away in order to save (sail) the boat.
> Oh me, aren't sour grapes wonderful?
> John


Hey, we can't all be Rock Stars... Who's gonna comprise the Audience, after all?



ccriders said:


> Grumpy? No, just trying to put a little perspective to the "Rock Star" label, while recognizing I'm just a little jealous.
> John


Nice work if you can get it, eh?

)

Swell Voyage » National Geographic Adventurer of the Year??!!


----------



## Minnewaska

gamayun said:


> .....when I see "kids" like Nike and the Rock Stars actually DOING something adventurous, figuring it out as they go along, making mistakes, and sharing their lessons learned; I think they are THE LEAST segment of society that anyone should be criticizing........


I agree, as long as they actually are. I find that a little questionable with Nike, not the Rock Stars.

I don't follow the production delay criticisms, I haven't even put the boxes away from parts that arrived two weeks ago yet. But, if you're pretending to fix your boat yourself and you aren't, it's little more than a hot babe washing a car in a bikini.


----------



## jerryrlitton

Personally I do not have a problem watching a hot babe in a bikini wash anything. But that's just me.


----------



## Minnewaska

jerryrlitton said:


> Personally I do not have a problem watching a hot babe in a bikini wash anything. But that's just me.


Same here. I just don't believe they are all that adventuresome.


----------



## jerryrlitton

Minnewaska said:


> Same here. I just don't believe they are all that adventuresome.


Oh I don't know, I suppose it depends on what adventuresome means to YOU. One mans ho hum is another mans exciting night/week/lifetime. Maybe you should not judge a book by its cover. And there are very few ugly/overweight covers in The land of Smiles. 
Jerry


----------



## mstern

Minnewaska said:


> I agree, as long as they actually are. I find that a little questionable with Nike, not the Rock Stars.
> 
> I don't follow the production delay criticisms, I haven't even put the boxes away from parts that arrived two weeks ago yet. But, if you're pretending to fix your boat yourself and you aren't, it's little more than a hot babe washing a car in a bikini.


Whoa, there. You jumped from the understandable (if overstated) "problem" that she kept posting as if she were still in the San Blas to saying that Nike was only pretending to fix her boat. What do you base that on?


----------



## Minnewaska

mstern said:


> Whoa, there. You jumped from the understandable (if overstated) "problem" that she kept posting as if she were still in the San Blas to saying that Nike was only pretending to fix her boat. What do you base that on?


I never criticized the posting delays or disconnect to where she actually was. I explained my suspicion of the misleading refit several times in this thread.


----------



## MedSailor

Minnewaska said:


> I noted it earlier in the thread, when the YouTube channel was originally posted. In early episodes, she is ready to sail away on her newly acquired boat and seemed surprised to find it was in poor condition. Many of the condition issues would have been easily identified.
> 
> If you note the significant sponsors on the videos, it seems unbelievable that they would have participated in such uncertainty. The refit was likely anticipated and built to be a fake reality show.


Yeah! My "I hate boats" thread/refit has over 35K views and I have yet to have a sponsor. Well.... I guess I should really count SafeCo as a sponsor now that I think of it. 

I'm definitely not cute enough to have recruited the kind of help I needed without assistance. 

MedSailor


----------



## gamayun

MedSailor said:


> Yeah! My "I hate boats" thread/refit has over 35K views and I have yet to have a sponsor. Well.... I guess I should really count SafeCo as a sponsor now that I think of it.
> 
> I'm definitely not cute enough to have recruited the kind of help I needed without assistance.
> 
> MedSailor


Have you ever asked for sponsorship? Or crowd-sourced your project? You might have, but I had not looked at this thread before today because the title turned me off -- "I hate boats" -- is not good PR for a boat-loving forum. But seriously, if you were to post pictures of your boat projects while in a Speedo, that could help...ya just gotta find your niche, MedSailor.


----------



## chall03

MedSailor said:


> Yeah! My "I hate boats" thread/refit has over 35K views and I have yet to have a sponsor. Well.... I guess I should really count SafeCo as a sponsor now that I think of it.
> 
> I'm definitely not cute enough to have recruited the kind of help I needed without assistance.
> 
> MedSailor


Surely we could get you at least a free BFS shirt


----------



## Don L

jerryrlitton said:


> Personally I do not have a problem watching a hot babe in a bikini wash anything. But that's just me.


Threw me off so much that I lost track of what the thread was


----------



## smackdaddy

Don0190 said:


> Threw me off so much that I lost track of what the thread was


Bikini Fraud Sailing?


----------



## krisscross

Russian sailors ending their sailing season is Siberia:









Members of the "Skipper" yacht club dressed as Father Frost, the Russian equivalent of Santa Claus, sail a yacht to mark the end of sailboat season, with the air temperature at about minus 18 degrees Celsius (minus 0.4 degrees Fahrenheit), on the Yenisei River outside Russia's Siberian city of Krasnoyarsk, Nov. 30, 2014.


----------



## MedSailor

krisscross said:


> Russian sailors ending their sailing season is Siberia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Members of the "Skipper" yacht club dressed as Father Frost, the Russian equivalent of Santa Claus, sail a yacht to mark the end of sailboat season, with the air temperature at about minus 18 degrees Celsius (minus 0.4 degrees Fahrenheit), on the Yenisei River outside Russia's Siberian city of Krasnoyarsk, Nov. 30, 2014.


Holy cow!  Makes me wonder, what temperature does vodka freeze at anyway?


----------



## gamayun

krisscross said:


> Russian sailors ending their sailing season is Siberia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Members of the "Skipper" yacht club dressed as Father Frost, the Russian equivalent of Santa Claus, sail a yacht to mark the end of sailboat season, with the air temperature at about minus 18 degrees Celsius (minus 0.4 degrees Fahrenheit), on the Yenisei River outside Russia's Siberian city of Krasnoyarsk, Nov. 30, 2014.


This would be much more impressive if they were in bikinis


----------



## smackdaddy

krisscross said:


> Russian sailors ending their sailing season is Siberia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Members of the "Skipper" yacht club dressed as Father Frost, the Russian equivalent of Santa Claus, sail a yacht to mark the end of sailboat season, with the air temperature at about minus 18 degrees Celsius (minus 0.4 degrees Fahrenheit), on the Yenisei River outside Russia's Siberian city of Krasnoyarsk, Nov. 30, 2014.


Oh hell yeah!!










Big Freakin' Santa!


----------



## ccriders

gamayun said:


> This would be much more impressive if they were in bikinis


What, you want to see vodka drinkers in bikinis?
Weirding me out.
John


----------



## smackdaddy

ccriders said:


> What, you want to see vodka drinkers in bikinis?
> Weirding me out.
> John


You can get plenty of that in Jersey. Heh-heh.


----------



## krisscross

MedSailor said:


> Holy cow!  Makes me wonder, what temperature does vodka freeze at anyway?


80 proof vodka will freeze at approximately -26.95C or -16.51F. Thus their vodka was still drinkable on that trip.
As to the suggestions of sailing in bikinis. 
Anybody who wants to see these old dudes in bikinis is beyond help.


----------



## ScottUK

> 80 proof vodka will freeze at approximately -26.95C or -16.51F


Funny but true, I just ran this experiment without any problems.


----------



## Kyhillbilly

ScottUK said:


> Funny but true, I just ran this experiment without any problems.


So your next experiment can be to see how much vodka the old dudes in bikinis will have to drink in order to keep from freezing their sagging manhood off and having to go inside.:laugher


----------



## SailRedemption

Kyhillbilly said:


> So your next experiment can be to see how much vodka the old dudes in bikinis will have to drink in order to keep from freezing their sagging manhood off and having to go inside.:laugher


I don't think I want to be the judge to determine the thawedness of their manhood! Haha

- Ronnie...on the geaux


----------



## smackdaddy

Hey Bluto! Thought you might enjoy this different kind of BFS:

A Different Kind of BFS! | SmackTalk!

We had a blast.


----------



## aloof

If being dragged sideways with the spreaders wet would be a new experience for you, maybe you shouldn't be out there.

[There is probably some corollary for multi's: maybe if sliding sideways at 5 knots...]


----------



## blt2ski

Smack,

Need to get my lt hooked back to internet to really see video. I was up today for first turns of season. Thin snow pack. But sill turns were made.
Marty


----------



## smackdaddy

blt2ski said:


> Smack,
> 
> Need to get my lt hooked back to internet to really see video. I was up today for first turns of season. Thin snow pack. But sill turns were made.
> Marty


Any turns are good turns as far as I'm concerned. Think pack at Ski Apache as well - but they got 8" the night before we got there, so it was nice.


----------



## blt2ski

True to the any turns are good.

Pita with lt not hooking to internet, and doing all from a cell phone.

Marty


----------



## blt2ski

I'm posting on SN instead of making turns with my two class's of 8 students each today........definitely NOT a BFS type day! Even have a family of 4 kids, with twins in one.....wonder if I remember how to handle 9 yr old twins......hmmmmmmmm......

Kids had some nice turns smack. BUT, like any 34 yr time frame teacher, I can see how to greatly improve their BFS days on snow!

Marty


----------



## smackdaddy

blt2ski said:


> I'm posting on SN instead of making turns with my two class's of 8 students each today........definitely NOT a BFS type day! Even have a family of 4 kids, with twins in one.....wonder if I remember how to handle 9 yr old twins......hmmmmmmmm......
> 
> Kids had some nice turns smack. BUT, like any 34 yr time frame teacher, I can see how to greatly improve their BFS days on snow!
> 
> Marty


Bring on the pointers brotha!!! I just got permabanned at CF so I've got plenty of time! Heh-heh.


----------



## blt2ski

Saw something about the banning on your blog site. 

Anyway, their buts need to move forward. Then they can get forward some, go faster, carve instead of skidding without having to wedge into the new turn. There is more to it than that too.

As I am getting ready to watch the Hawks in what hopfully will be a BFS/W..... BIG FOOTBALL WIN!

marty


----------



## smackdaddy

blt2ski said:


> Saw something about the banning on your blog site.
> 
> Anyway, their buts need to move forward. Then they can get forward some, go faster, carve instead of skidding without having to wedge into the new turn. There is more to it than that too.
> 
> As I am getting ready to watch the Hawks in what hopfully will be a BFS/W..... BIG FOOTBALL WIN!
> 
> marty


Yeah - I'll put up the rest of the story soon. As for the skiing, I'm always hammering on them to keep their hands forward - to bring their weight/butt forward as well. But you know how it is.

This is the 3rd time skiing for the younger one, and the 5th for the older one. They'll get it. Practice, practice, practice. Ain't so bad, eh?


----------



## RTB

smackdaddy said:


> I just got permabanned at CF so I've got plenty of time! Heh-heh.


I go out to eat (they bought) with a new Hunter 46 owner, come back, and you're gone. What the heck? They are neighbors of yours, so hope we can all get together soon. Brian and Susan have a blog - S/V Good Morning Vietnam

We get a few more together and we can form a new Texas Navy, armed with Hunters, and wreak some havoc in the Caribbean....heh-heh,

Ralph


----------



## smackdaddy

RTB said:


> I go out to eat (they bought) with a new Hunter 46 owner, come back, and you're gone. What the heck? They are neighbors of yours, so hope we can all get together soon. Brian and Susan have a blog - S/V Good Morning Vietnam
> 
> We get a few more together and we can form a new Texas Navy, armed with Hunters, and wreak some havoc in the Caribbean....heh-heh,
> 
> Ralph


Saaawweeeeet! I'll check it out.


----------



## blt2ski

Smack,

only 3 an 5 times on boards. Then not too bad at all! Give em some time, miles, phun and all that stuff.

how old are they?

marty


----------



## smackdaddy

blt2ski said:


> Smack,
> 
> only 3 an 5 times on boards. Then not too bad at all! Give em some time, miles, phun and all that stuff.
> 
> how old are they?
> 
> marty


10 and 14. They're pretty awesome dudes.


----------



## chall03

Banned on CF for being a knuckle head?

Welcome home. 

I think the production boat debate( or non debate) is a very worthy one, some good discussion over there before everyone got antsy.


----------



## smackdaddy

chall03 said:


> Banned on CF for being a knuckle head?
> 
> Welcome home.
> 
> I think the production boat debate( or non debate) is a very worthy one, some good discussion over there before everyone got antsy.


Heh-heh. I am the Undisputed Knucklehead Champion of The World!

It's good to be back here. Talk about walking on egg shells. Holy crap! I mean, any cruising or sailing forum that bans freakin' _Bob Perry_ needs a robust kick in the nads.

But, you're right, that place needed a bit of a shake-up in terms of their ridiculous BWC bias. I was happy to oblige. I think they're straight now. They can thank me later.


----------



## Don L

smackdaddy said:


> Bring on the pointers brotha!!! I just got permabanned at CF so I've got plenty of time! Heh-heh.


I told you more than once


----------



## smackdaddy

Don0190 said:


> I told you more than once


Told me what?


----------



## Don L

smackdaddy said:


> Told me what?


that the mods only support bashers in the long run

since half the bashers there are the same ones as here you had to know what the result was going to be


----------



## TakeFive

blt2ski said:


> Saw something about the banning on your blog site....


Yeah, I saw that too. I see that Smack mentions JulieMor doing BFS on a Hinckley 50. I'm glad she finally found her dream boat. Last time she was here (over a year ago) she took a lot of flack for her seemingly endless search for a perfect boat and her rants against incompetent brokers. Sounds like she finally worked through all that and proved the skeptics wrong.


----------



## JonEisberg

TakeFive said:


> Yeah, I saw that too. I see that Smack mentions JulieMor doing BFS on a Hinckley 50.


Huh? On a boat that hasn't been built yet?



TakeFive said:


> I'm glad she finally found her dream boat. Last time she was here (over a year ago) she took a lot of flack for her seemingly endless search for a perfect boat and her rants against incompetent brokers. Sounds like she finally worked through all that and proved the skeptics wrong.


Call me skeptical, but I believe her "endless search" might now just be entering its 'Middle Stages', at best...



How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"? - Cruisers & Sailing Forums


----------



## TakeFive

JonEisberg said:


> Huh? On a boat that hasn't been built yet?
> 
> Call me skeptical, but I believe her "endless search" might now just be entering its 'Middle Stages', at best...
> 
> 
> 
> How Do You Determine If A Boat Is "Seaworthy"? - Cruisers & Sailing Forums


Ugh. I mistakenly assumed that the Hinckley pic was a shot of her long-elusive boat under construction.

After reading a little more, it sounds like nothing has changed. How many years has it been? And still NO BOAT?

I can see buying a starter boat, then spending 5 years looking for your perfect boat while you learn enough about yourself to know what "perfect" is. But she brings indecision and over-thinking to a whole new level. I wonder how long it will be before their patience with her runs out over on CF.

Hey Smack: What BFS did she actually do? Or did she just buy some of your gear? Or hit you up for a freebie?


----------



## smackdaddy

TakeFive said:


> Ugh. I mistakenly assumed that the Hinckley pic was a shot of her long-elusive boat under construction.
> 
> After reading a little more, it sounds like nothing has changed. How many years has it been? And still NO BOAT?
> 
> I can see buying a starter boat, then spending 5 years looking for your perfect boat while you learn enough about yourself to know what "perfect" is. But she brings indecision and over-thinking to a whole new level. I wonder how long it will be before their patience with her runs out over on CF.
> 
> Hey Smack: What BFS did she actually do? Or did she just buy some of your gear? Or hit you up for a freebie?


Search this thread. She put up a great BFS story of an epic sail she had with her dad. It was good enough to qualify as a "Featured Throwdown".


----------



## smackdaddy

Don0190 said:


> that the mods only support bashers in the long run
> 
> since half the bashers there are the same ones as here you had to know what the result was going to be


Oh - yeah. It is really weird. Those mods do seem to protect some very bullying goofballs...including a few of the mods. Oh well. It's another forum.

Don't worry - full write up coming soon.

The funny thing is, the last post of mine that they deleted was one where I was joking with that dude Exile. He typed this:

"I had a dingy girlfriend once who hated riding in my dinghy. Is this what you mean?"

And continuing the joke on the definition of "dingy" - which can mean either "stupid" (like he's using it) or "dirty" (like most British people use it), I typed this:

"Was she stupid or just in need of a shower."

My post was deleted and I was permanently banned within 20 minutes.

You make the call.


----------



## blt2ski

Smack, Better not tell you how my kids, all 4 were sking at those ages, then again, they started the winter they were three, could ski down a beginner run by them selves. Age 6 or 7, doing diamond and some easier local doubles! They even had a few silver mugs from some ski races. One had the fastest nastar run at age 5 when nastar existed......so any who........guess skiing 2-3 days a week during the season will do that to you!

Marty


----------



## smackdaddy

A fresh post on the safety gear we've added thus far to get ready for our big push-off in June:

Big Freakin' Safety Gear | SmackTalk!










Other posts coming soon on all the other projects we're doing over the winter. It's getting completely out of hand.


----------



## Rhapsody-NS27

Always good to have a layout of everything you have to make sure you're not missing anything essential, like batteries for the emergency beacon, radio, flashlight, etc.


----------



## TakeFive

smackdaddy said:


> A fresh post on the safety gear we've added thus far to get ready for our big push-off in June:
> 
> Big Freakin' Safety Gear | SmackTalk!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other posts coming soon on all the other projects we're doing over the winter. It's getting completely out of hand.


Good idea on using the Smart Leash as MOB alarms. Looks like they've gotten some negative reviews, mostly due to difficult pairing. Let us know how they work for you. I hope they come out with an Android version at some point.


----------



## smackdaddy

TakeFive said:


> Good idea on using the Smart Leash as MOB alarms. Looks like they've gotten some negative reviews, mostly due to difficult pairing. Let us know how they work for you. I hope they come out with an Android version at some point.


Yeah, I saw those same reviews. So far they've worked okay in testing. I'll let you know how they do.


----------



## MedSailor

TakeFive said:


> Good idea on using the Smart Leash as MOB alarms. Looks like they've gotten some negative reviews, mostly due to difficult pairing. Let us know how they work for you. I hope they come out with an Android version at some point.


Looks like a good list. My suggestions would be to make sure your batteries are lithium, as they won't leak and destroy other things like alkaline batteries will. Also, if your space blankets are the mylar type, ditch them (they're completely useless) and use the Amazon.com : Adventure Medical Heatsheets Emergency Blanket : Camping First Aid Kits : Sports & [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@51g2cmEBlcL instead. Also Datarex rations, while not strictly necessary, could provide energy to effect rescue and morale.

MedSailor


----------



## smackdaddy

Very cool! Thanks med!

I'm ordering 3.


----------



## MedSailor

Seasickness meds would be my other thought. If I recall, you all are afflicted and in a bouncy raft, and under stress, you're very likely to be affected. You don't want to be barfing up your water rations....

MedSailor


----------



## smackdaddy

Yes - that's part of the First Aid kit - and is specified in the ISAF/OSR regs for the grab bag. We have both Bonine and Ginger tabs in the kit.

I've only been seasick off-shore twice in my life, and both times it was when I was attending my puking kids. I recovered quickly both times - and haven't had trouble with it on other trips.

Even so, you're right. You don't want to be puking in a LR where all rations are slim.

In our upcoming cruising grounds, I think realistically we would be in a LR no more than a day - tops...unless of course we got spectacularly unlucky on every front. Stuff does happen, of course. But it seems you have to set everything up to your most likely scenario - not to spending 2 months at sea in a LR, or needing a survival suit in the Carib. Playin' the odds, eh?


----------



## Kyhillbilly

Not sure that this qualifies as Big Freakin Sails but it sure qualifies as a Big Freakin Adventure. Not sure of his age but has to be fresh out of high school. Its a blog about a young man who bought a catalina 25 and is sailing it around the Bahamas. Something most of us only dream about doing only he is living his dream instead of dreaming it. A person can find his blog searching S/V Meadowlark Blogspot.com. Thought a few of you might like it.


----------



## smackdaddy

Kyhillbilly said:


> Not sure that this qualifies as Big Freakin Sails but it sure qualifies as a Big Freakin Adventure. Not sure of his age but has to be fresh out of high school. Its a blog about a young man who bought a catalina 25 and is sailing it around the Bahamas. Something most of us only dream about doing only he is living his dream instead of dreaming it. A person can find his blog searching S/V Meadowlark Blogspot.com. Thought a few of you might like it.


Oh hell yeah!!




























S/V Meadowlark

GO THE YOUNG PUNKS!


----------



## RTB

A cool kid. Thanks for the link. 

Ralph


----------



## chall03

Awesome. I wish when I was young(er) and stupid(er) I had done something like this.


----------



## smackdaddy

The boys and I are a few more steps closer with the boat. A new NavPod, LinkPRO, and a couple of other things...

Various Projects: Part 3 | SmackTalk!


----------



## chall03

Looking nice Smack. 

We just bought a life edge and rail mount, but now I am very jealous of your Navpod!!!


----------



## smackdaddy

Well - the boat I've done several off-shore races on is now for sale at an incredible price:

1984 Pearson 365 sailing yacht sailboat for sale Houston, Texas










I got a heads up on my blog that she was on the market and contacted my buddy who owns her to get the skinny.

This is a truly fine boat. Jim babied her and everything is top-notch. You couldn't go wrong - especially at this price.

She is absolutely...










*Our Harvest Moon Regatta Race and Return On This Boat*


----------



## Whitebread117

Sharp boat at a very fair price- don't think they'll have much trouble moving that one.


----------



## smackdaddy

Riding out a serious storm on our boat...






The little metal fish was panicking.


----------



## Don L

Looked pretty smooth out, what was the seas doing? I would much prefer to be in high wind than tall steep short period seas.


----------



## smackdaddy

Don0190 said:


> Looked pretty smooth out, what was the seas doing? I would much prefer to be in high wind than tall steep short period seas.


I take it you didn't watch the video to the end? The seas at our location at that time were running about 6" - as there was only about 80' of fetch from the marina wall to our slip. Heh-heh.


----------



## RTB

Yep. Nice being tied up in the slip for that one. Our dinghy went "walkabout" during that storm. I was thinking it should be tied down on the dock. Next time - listen to the voice in your head, Ralph! 

Storms like that remind me of some really long nights at anchor. When we went cruising, I knew we'd never be sailing in 40-50 knots of wind.....at least, not if I could help it. The one thing I never really planned for was what happens if you are anchored out when one of these storms hits. It is practically unavoidable when you are out cruising. So....just imagine the same storm at anchor. Believe me, if you cruise through Florida or the Bahamas during June/July, you will find out for yourself what it's like. Guaranteed. No doubt, that Mantus anchor will be far more valuable to you than that Jordan Series drogue. But, relax. Everyone in the anchorage will be awake along with you at 3 am, waiting for the drag alarm to sound. Have the key in the ignition, and a plan, just in case it's your alarm that goes off. 

I could certainly write a BFS at anchor post for you from one long night at Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos last spring. (My wife's worst nightmare - or- our worst experience ever while cruising) Seriously, I believe living on the hook to be one of any cruiser's biggest challenge. Get it wrong, and it's a quick way to lose your boat.

Nice video, BTW. I could relate. 

Ralph


----------



## chall03

Highest recorded wind I saw overnight here was 73kts according to my I60. Most of the time 50-60.

Also sitting in a marina  A few boats damaged here though unfortunately.


----------



## smackdaddy

chall03 said:


> Highest recorded wind I saw overnight here was 73kts according to my I60. Most of the time 50-60.
> 
> Also sitting in a marina  A few boats damaged here though unfortunately.


You know, I think it's actually good to be on your boat in your slip in a big blow. It's easy to think about 50 knots being the kind of wind that will rip your boat apart if you've never been in it. But it's not.

Yes, I understand that throwing in an F10 sea state can up the ante quite a bit - but still, it's good to see how your boat responds, sounds, and feels in that wind. The boat was perfectly fine - canvas and all.

(Now 73 knots - F12 winds - is an _entirely_ different animal. Wow.)


----------



## Minnewaska

smackdaddy said:


> ....Yes, I understand that throwing in an F10 sea state can up the ante quite a bit - but still, it's good to see how your boat responds, sounds, and feels in that wind. The boat was perfectly fine - canvas and all.....


The sea state not only throws the boat around, but changes the wind angle on the canvas. Likely to find yourself further healed over, with wind pushing up from the bottom. Not to mention taking a good wave on it.

Lots of canvas survives a tough passage. Lots gets torn to shreds. It's a crap shoot.


----------



## chall03

smackdaddy said:


> You know, I think it's actually good to be on your boat in your slip in a big blow. It's easy to think about 50 knots being the kind of wind that will rip your boat apart if you've never been in it. But it's not.
> 
> Yes, I understand that throwing in an F10 sea state can up the ante quite a bit - but still, it's good to see how your boat responds, sounds, and feels in that wind. The boat was perfectly fine - canvas and all.
> 
> (Now 73 knots - F12 winds - is an _entirely_ different animal. Wow.)


I agree.

Hey nothing beats heeling hard over in your slip while trying to juggle a glass of wine and a book.

The other thing to do in rough conditions is to find a headland, the end of breakwall etc and got a stand there(safely) in your foulies watching the sea for a hour.

Firstly cause the sea is awesome. Secondly cause you learn a lot.

It has been carnage here the past 24 hours. A Beneteau floating past(slipped mooring I am guessing) hit the end of the marina arm.

Another rough night to get through tonight before things calm down.


----------



## smackdaddy

Friday night at Galveston Yacht Basin. Jesse grilled some killer tuna steaks.










Then we headed offshore (the first time for us in our new boat with me as skipper) for a 50 mile run to Sabine Pass.










The Hunter did really well - topping 8 knots a few times in 15-20. She's really awesome - but we had a couple of stressful shakedown issues...

1. Heard the bilge running. We were taking on water about 13 miles out. Frantic inventory of all the seacocks. Found the problem.

2. On the way into Sabine Pass, with steep and very frequent 6-8' waves coming up our bum, and huge tankers coming up the channel, we lost all the engine instruments. I thought the engine had died and we were going to be on the rocks. It was something electrical.

It was time to pull in and see what the damage was...

#smacktalk with video soon.


----------



## Minnewaska

smackdaddy said:


> 1. Heard the bilge running. We were taking on water about 13 miles out. Frantic inventory of all the seacocks. Found the problem.
> 
> 2. On the way into Sabine Pass, with steep and very frequent 6-8' waves coming up our bum, and huge tankers coming up the channel, we lost all the engine instruments. I thought the engine had died and we were going to be on the rocks. It was something electrical.


Inquiring minds want to know.


----------



## vagabundoII

Im going to have to get some beers. It's going to take me a few days get through all of this?!


----------



## aloof

Minnewaska said:


> Inquiring minds want to know.


Experienced minds know these things are all too normal ... But please do tell us more...


----------



## Capt Len

So, all in all, a pretty uneventful outing.


----------



## RTB

So, are you guys on your way to Florida, or just a shakedown run? Either way, it's great to see you posting about sailing. Be safe, and watch for debris in the water. Probably lots of junk in the rivers after TS Bill last week. Some could make it into the Gulf, and definitely in the ICW.

Ralph


----------



## smackdaddy

This Hunter 40 can freakin' FLY. We broke 8 knots on a beam reach in 18 knots of wind - not surfing. And we weren't even trimming the sails (both boys were asleep due to being nauseous and I was driving):










Also the marina we're in is tiny. I had to do a back-and-fill 180 in one small fairway, then back out of another before I found our spot. I was REALLY glad I wasn't in a steel boat - or a full-keeler. I love this production boat!










More later...


----------



## jerryrlitton

Way cool Smack. Looking good. Here in Satun boatyard in the middle of a refit. Hopefully in the water end of July. I need to mention that SOG does in no way define performance. Speed through the water is what you need to know.


----------



## aloof

That's true, Daddy, BSP is the only number accepted for bragging rights. We'll give ya this one because oscar.noaa.gov says there was just a tiny little favorable current on your run. I've done a couple of knots while at anchor down here...and that's just an old school anchor, not a NextGen Rocna! Tell us the fuel jugs were on the weather side??


----------



## chall03

aloof said:


> Experienced minds know these things are all too normal ... But please do tell us more...


+1

Your now living first hand the cruising mantra about fixing things in exotic ports 

We are also curious what happened though.

The adventure has begun? Excited for you and the boys Smack, congrats on all the hardwork on the boat so far, it will all be worth it as you have BFS after BFS and see sunset after sunset.


----------



## smackdaddy

aloof said:


> Tell us the fuel jugs were on the weather side??


Look at the heading and the prevailing winds.


----------



## smackdaddy

jerryrlitton said:


> I need to mention that SOG does in no way define performance. Speed through the water is what you need to know.


Not necessarily. When I'm nailed to my course line (which I was), making virtually perfect VMG - SOG is pretty important.

Anyway - just look at the PHRF rating for my boat if you doubt her relative speed.


----------



## jerryrlitton

smackdaddy said:


> Not necessarily. When I'm nailed to my course line (which I was), making virtually perfect VMG - SOG is pretty important.
> 
> Anyway - just look at the PHRF rating for my boat if you doubt her relative speed.


Initially I thought you were joking, then I thought that maybe you just don't know. And that's ok. If I was just concerned about SOG and VMG in relation to when I will arrive at the bar and have a cold one then I would agree with you, and a cold one sometimes is important HOWEVER current direction and velocity directly affect SOG and VMG. The only way so leave out those variables is to sail with no current at all, just have the speed through the water. That way you just have hull and sail design WHICH IS YOUR BOAT. Damn, I can be on a piece of drift wood through the rapids of the Grand Canyon and see 10 knots SOG with zero knots through the water..is this a well designed driftwood? I think not. Well maybe it is if it was a production driftwood.....carry on.


----------



## aeventyr60

Did the production driftwood ever figure out the mysterious engine panel flame out?


----------



## jerryrlitton

BTW on the production driftwood, you should fix that wiring and consider higher stanchions.


----------



## Minnewaska

So, I'm now very curious. Which direction does off shore current run in the Gulf over that passage? No way SOG has anything to do with boat performance, one must account for current, wind and waves. 

Anyway, perhaps current was on the nose? What did the speed through water say at the time of the pic?

Silence on the panel flame out and water ingress will only cause the rest of us to make up a story and swear it's true. I deserves a good story, because you apparently had your engine running with 18 kts of wind on the beam?


----------



## RTB

Minnewaska said:


> Silence on the panel flame out and water ingress will only cause the rest of us to make up a story and swear it's true. I deserves a good story, because you apparently had your engine running with 18 kts of wind on the beam?


I'm pretty sure he'd be running the engine coming in the inlet, and as he said, the waves were on the stern (as it would be with the prevailing SE winds).

Maybe the propane vent was the source for the water intrusion?

Electrical...? Was it the new wiring, or the 26 year old (good enough) stuff?

Crickets Chirping.....

Ralph


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay...try to focus here...

*Crickets=Sailing*
(or being banned, but you know what I mean)

...so you guys need to chill. I'll get to it all when I can. LOTS of details. But, here's a quick rundown...

-Water ingress looks to be a leaking fridge pump. Trying to address it now. But everything else is fine on that front. Just a little scary on our first offshore.

-Instrument failure is still an unknown. However, I changed out the MRBF on the start battery (just guessing it could have blown because it was the only truly new thing in that system - though it looked okay) then while inspecting all the wiring, I also found what looked to be an older chafe spot on one of the 10 gauge wires at the engine that runs to the panel. Maybe shorted? Cut, cleaned and crimped (with heat shrink of course) - and everything came back up. So it was one of those things it seems.

-However, there seems to be a _MUCH_ bigger engine issue. Working through it now. The boat _sails_ like a demon offshore for sure. No question. But the Yanmar we were relying on for this ICW motorfest is definitely not living up to expectations. I absolutely prefer sailing offshore. This motoring thing sucks...though it's necessary. Anyway, LOTS more to come on that. Let's just say I had to call my first-ever, somewhat frantic Sécurité today after the engine failed while we were between very shallow water and a very busy ship channel with dredges and a monster tanker coming down. The boys did GREAT in that emergency situation. We got the jib up and got out of trouble with only a few inches to spare on the depth gauge. Not my idea of fun.

-On the SOG thing...I know. Good lord, you guys are geeky.

-No Minne, the engine was off the entire time between the Galveston and Sabine Pass jetties. We sail - we don't motor, unless there's no wind. You're not very good at this sailing thing are you?

So, the Hunter is fine. More than fine. It's all the other stuff installed on it that is giving us fits.


----------



## chall03

Sorry to hear about your engine problems, thats a scary scenario but it sounds like you all passed the test with flying colours.


----------



## Minnewaska

smackdaddy said:


> .....
> 
> -No Minne, the engine was off the entire time between the Galveston and Sabine Pass jetties. We sail - we don't motor, unless there's no wind. You're not very good at this sailing thing are you?.....


Listen, Smack, if you want to go toe to toe, because you're bent that I took issue with your personal vendetta against AC, you better have a miracle in your bag of tricks. I have no doubt, I could teach you a few things about sailing.

You're beginning to remind of that saying "can dish it out, but can't take it"

You apparently decided to ignore my suggestion that you may have had current on the nose. Or, perhaps, as you often like to do, you exaggerated your case and had a trailing current.


----------



## VF84Sluggo

smackdaddy said:


> So, the (sailboat) is fine. More than fine. It's all the other stuff installed on it that is giving us fits.


That was the problem with the sailboat I _used_ to own, too! :wink

Discovered that buying a sailboat and affording a sailboat are two very, very different things.


----------



## smackdaddy

chall03 said:


> Sorry to hear about your engine problems, thats a scary scenario but it sounds like you all passed the test with flying colours.


Thanks dude. Not the kind of test I relish, though.

In any case, I got some good video of us sailing offshore through the rigs. I'll put all that together ASAP.

One thing I also wanted to do was video the interior of the boat while underway. You always hear about the "oil canning" and "creaking and groaning" of "lightly built production boats" in a seaway. People even saying stuff like "they were afraid the boat was coming apart". None of that. And we were in some very rolly seas on our quarter.

Anyway, so far so good.


----------



## smackdaddy

VF84Sluggo said:


> That was the problem with the sailboat I _used_ to own, too! :wink
> 
> Discovered that buying a sailboat and affording a sailboat are two very, very different things.


That's exactly why I was very careful what I paid for the boat at purchase...to leave a good chunk money for owning it.


----------



## smackdaddy

Minnewaska said:


> You apparently decided to ignore my suggestion that you may have had current on the nose. Or, perhaps, as you often like to do, you exaggerated your case and had a trailing current.


I posted _*a photo of the chartplotter showing 7.9 SOG*_...after just missing the 8+ that had been there a few moments before (not simply an "exaggerated claim"). 8 knots of speed directly toward your destination is better than 4 knots any day. But knock yourself out if you need to dissect it all to feel better.


----------



## Capt Len

Sometimes it's difficult (on production boat) to determine where the water's coming in due to the acrid smoke from some hidden wiring. Practice will make this a less memorable event. The ToDo list just gets more realistic.


----------



## VF84Sluggo

smackdaddy said:


> That's exactly why I was very careful what I paid for the boat at purchase...to leave a good chunk money for owning it.


GREAT advice! Your blog on the purchase process that led to your Hunter is an excellent read...should be required reading for newb's looking to jump into sailboat ownership.

Sluggo


----------



## Don L

Why can't people just be happy to sail and to hear that others are sailing? Why does everything have to be a pissing battle over petty crap just because it is different from how they do it etc.!


----------



## miatapaul

Don0190 said:


> Why can't people just be happy to sail and to hear that others are sailing? Why does everything have to be a pissing battle over petty crap just because it is different from how they do it etc.!


Well I think this is the first time I agreed with Don! :grin


----------



## Sublime

Just popping in to complain...

Smack, the video isn't done yet? Gah!! Hurry up with the video!


----------



## VF84Sluggo

smackdaddy said:


> 1. Heard the bilge running. We were taking on water about 13 miles out. Frantic inventory of all the seacocks. Found the problem.





Minnewaska said:


> Inquiring minds want to know.


Yes, Smack, what happened here?

Sluggo


----------



## smackdaddy

I'm in the same marina as this guy:






You should see his boat, the _S/V Bradna Rose_ - a wooden 42' Alden schooner he built himself - starting with cutting down the trees to do it 25 years ago. He then lost his foot to her - but still loves her like crazy. I am in awe - of both the boat and him. Great man and GORGEOUS boat.


----------



## RTB

That's one thing about cruising. You see a lot of amazing stuff, and meet some cool people. Nice one. 

Ralph


----------



## jerryrlitton

In Satun, Thailand they are rebuilding a 1956 SnS all wooden boat. Aeventyr60 and I got a tour of her the other day, the woodworking skills that are required and these guys have is amazing. Beautiful, definably not production.


----------



## seaner97

miatapaul said:


> Well I think this is the first time I agreed with Don! :grin


Pretty sure it the first "like" I've given him!


----------



## Don L

seaner97 said:


> Pretty sure it the first "like" I've given him!


Hope you have health coverage, you are going to need it :|


----------



## seaner97

Don0190 said:


> seaner97 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure it the first "like" I've given him!
> 
> 
> 
> Hope you have health coverage, you are going to need it
Click to expand...

Was that a threat?!


----------



## MedSailor

Don0190 said:


> Hope you have health coverage, you are going to need it :|


???? What do you mean by that?

Medsailor

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


----------



## Don L

mental health as you might now need it, you know like in a joke

geez lighten up on the paranoid stuff


----------



## seaner97

Don0190 said:


> mental health as you might now need it, you know like in a joke
> 
> geez lighten up on the paranoid stuff


Oh, I get it. Now that I've agreed with you on anything I may get sucked into the unhealthy cognitive dissonance where you live, and based on your joke, are medicated for.


----------



## Don L

seaner97 said:


> Oh, I get it. Now that I've agreed with you on anything I may get sucked into the unhealthy cognitive dissonance where you live, and based on your joke, are medicated for.


close enough, except I was just making a joke without trying to be insulting while doing it


----------



## seaner97

Don0190 said:


> close enough, except I was just making a joke without trying to be insulting while doing it


Sorry. Guess we have both proven that the written word is often hard to convey humor in.


----------



## smackdaddy

Here's the write-up and video of our first 2 days...










*Carib Run - Leg 1 (Episode 01)*

It's a doozy.


----------



## RTB

Hey, how did Pepper do offshore?

Ralph


----------



## smackdaddy

RTB said:


> Hey, how did Pepper do offshore?
> 
> Ralph


She actually did great. Hung out in the cockpit with us all day. No problems.


----------



## RTB

She's a good doggie! 

Ralph


----------



## smackdaddy

RTB said:


> She's a good doggie!
> 
> Ralph


Yeah but she can't fix engines worth a crap. Time for some additional training.


----------



## RTB

smackdaddy said:


> Yeah but she can't fix engines worth a crap. Time for some additional training.


In that case.....Mangy Mutt! Reminds me of B-52's Quiche Lorraine.

Hey you are not alone out there, losing your engine. Quote from Don1500 at CF - "The engine seized because of complete oil depletion. Don't know at this point how or why. I knew it was depleting when I got to Thunderbolt and had a mechanic "fix" it, and tell me all was fine. Guess what.

Yes it is a costly repair. Big hit to my emergency fund. But I will know the new engine will be taken care of by me alone and I will know the maintenance is complete and up to date. (old engine time >26000 hrs) ".

Ralph


----------



## smackdaddy

Man it sucked to leave our beloved _Dawn Treader_ at the marina. But we had no choice.










We'll get the engine problem squared away and continue on with our adventure when we can (more on all that soon).

In the mean time, I guess it's back to my "Million Questions" thread for more silly projects. I'm telling you, it's so much more easy/comfortable/safe to work on your boat in the slip. But it's SO much more rewarding to take her out to sea - even if things go wrong. That's a _fact_.

_Dawn Treader_ is one hell of a BFS vessel. We love her.

PS - Anyone know a good delivery captain who can take her from Louisiana to Florida for us after the storm season?


----------



## jerryrlitton

I would think that would be a fun trip. You should consider doing it yourself.


----------



## smackdaddy

jerryrlitton said:


> I would think that would be a fun trip. You should consider doing it yourself.


You actually think I wouldn't? Dude, seriously. Think.

I won't go offshore without my kids. That's all there is to it. They need at least one parent.


----------



## jerryrlitton

smackdaddy said:


> You actually think I wouldn't? Dude, seriously. Think.
> 
> I won't go offshore without my kids. That's all there is to it. They need at least one parent.


Well you have a capable blue water boat. Not to mention BFS. Take them with you after the storm season. No?


----------



## smackdaddy

jerryrlitton said:


> Well you have a capable blue water boat. Not to mention BFS. Take them with you after the storm season. No?


Dude - you have no idea whatsoever.

And that's okay. Enjoy your boat.


----------



## jerryrlitton

smackdaddy said:


> Dude - you have no idea whatsoever.
> 
> And that's okay. Enjoy your boat.


That's OK dude. I do have an idea now. I have always said you have aircraft/boat limits and you have personal limits. You stop doing whatever it is you are doing whenever you reach the first limit. Enjoy the Hunter.


----------



## chall03

smackdaddy said:


> Man it sucked to leave our beloved _Dawn Treader_ at the marina. But we had no choice.


That sucks Smack. I understand your frustration.

After our failed attempt at buying a boat in Europe last year, This year we were set to cruise north to Papua New Guinea on_ Iolanthe_. The boat is ready, we are ready, but alas it isn't going happen this year for us either. (A long story, nothing life changing serious but still cruise ending ).

I however remain more determined that ever as I have no doubt you will be.

All Hunter jokes aside, she is a great looking boat Smack. Perfect for you guys and what you are up to. I look forward seeing the picture of you all back on board ready to go in the future.


----------



## RTB

smackdaddy said:


> PS - Anyone know a good delivery captain who can take her from Louisiana to Florida for us after the storm season?


Jay Bailey is a bud of mine. He lives aboard his Hunter at Portifino in Kemah. He does a lot of racing (offshore and inshore). He also delivers boats. A good guy. Call the West Marine in Clear Lake, and ask for him, or contact him on FB - https://www.facebook.com/jay.bailey...t_cursor=MDpub3Rfc3RydWN0dXJlZDoxMzc5ODU3OTUw

Of course, you know a couple of experienced guys that know their way to Florida, that would move your boat for you. Just pay expenses.

Best wishes getting Dawn Treader back up and running. Another thought....if those jugs have diesel in them, you might want to add a dose of Stabil, if you haven't already. Same with the fuel tank, if it's going to be sitting for 4 or 5 months.

Ralph


----------



## smackdaddy

chall03 said:


> That sucks Smack. I understand your frustration.
> 
> After our failed attempt at buying a boat in Europe last year, This year we were set to cruise north to Papua New Guinea on_ Iolanthe_. The boat is ready, we are ready, but alas it isn't going happen this year for us either. (A long story, nothing life changing serious but still cruise ending ).
> 
> I however remain more determined that ever as I have no doubt you will be.
> 
> All Hunter jokes aside, she is a great looking boat Smack. Perfect for you guys and what you are up to. I look forward seeing the picture of you all back on board ready to go in the future.


Yep - life can sure throw some curveballs. So, time to get better at hitting curveballs! Hang in there dude.

Thanks for the compliment on _Dawn Treader_. She is beautiful. We'll be back on track soon.


----------



## smackdaddy

RTB said:


> Jay Bailey is a bud of mine. He lives aboard his Hunter at Portifino in Kemah. He does a lot of racing (offshore and inshore). He also delivers boats. A good guy. Call the West Marine in Clear Lake, and ask for him, or contact him on FB - https://www.facebook.com/jay.bailey...t_cursor=MDpub3Rfc3RydWN0dXJlZDoxMzc5ODU3OTUw
> 
> Of course, you know a couple of experienced guys that know their way to Florida, that would move your boat for you. Just pay expenses.
> 
> Best wishes getting Dawn Treader back up and running.
> 
> Ralph


Awesome - thanks Ralph. I do know one very renown delivery skipper that I'm going to ask. I hear he loves production boats - with lots of junk on the rail. Heh-heh.


----------



## seaner97

Bummer. As much as I disagree with you about the newer is better stuff, I'd never wish engine trouble on anyone. Hope you get her fixed fast (and at a reasonable price). And at least the kids got SOME time on the water with you. They'll remember it their whole lives.


----------



## VF84Sluggo

^^^^ +1...not a better feeling in the world than when your kid looks at you and says, "Dad, this is the best day of my life!"

Absolutely nothing better IMO. You'll remember that for the rest of _your_ life


----------



## chall03

smackdaddy said:


> Awesome - thanks Ralph. I do know one very renown delivery skipper that I'm going to ask. I hear he loves production boats - with lots of junk on the rail. Heh-heh.


As long as the fridge opens on both tacks I'm sure he would have a ball:grin

You have got a kayak strapped on the side for him as well haven't you? 
Add another jerry can or two, you don't want him to run out of fuel.


----------



## smackdaddy

chall03 said:


> As long as the fridge opens on both tacks I'm sure he would have a ball:grin
> 
> You have got a kayak strapped on the side for him as well haven't you?
> Add another jerry can or two, you don't want him to run out of fuel.


I'll also rent a full enclosure and really tall dingy davits to ensure his comfort.

Seriously, I'd trust Jon with my boat any day. The question is - would HE trust my boat? Heh-heh.


----------



## chall03

smackdaddy said:


> I'll also rent a full enclosure and really tall dingy davits to ensure his comfort.
> 
> Seriously, I'd trust Jon with my boat any day. The question is - would HE trust my boat? Heh-heh.


As long as you taught him how to hove to :smile and had the drogue ready to deploy, he might think about risking it at least on the ICW.


----------



## aeventyr60

You'd better switch back to a CQR to be really in fashion too.


----------



## JonEisberg

RTB said:


> Hey you are not alone out there, losing your engine. Quote from Don1500 at CF - "The engine seized because of complete oil depletion. Don't know at this point how or why. I knew it was depleting when I got to Thunderbolt and had a mechanic "fix" it, and tell me all was fine. Guess what.
> 
> Yes it is a costly repair. Big hit to my emergency fund. But I will know the new engine will be taken care of by me alone and I will know the maintenance is complete and up to date. *(old engine time >26000 hrs) ".*
> 
> Ralph


How does one possibly put *26,000 hours* on the engine of a 34' sailboat???

Even @ a conservative estimate of 4 knots, that's over 100,000 miles... Or, roughly 3 1/2 times around the world, under power...

Or, charging batteries at anchor, that's _THREE YEARS_ of non-stop running, 24/7...

Sorry, I'm not buying it ;-) That engine must have had a 'prior life' in some sort of industrial application before it was put in that boat...

If true, the notion of racking up 26K engine hours on a 34' _sailboat_, simply boggles the mind...

;-)


----------



## RTB

JonEisberg said:


> How does one possibly put *26,000 hours* on the engine of a 34' sailboat???
> 
> Even @ a conservative estimate of 4 knots, that's over 100,000 miles... Or, roughly 3 1/2 times around the world, under power...
> 
> Or, charging batteries at anchor, that's _THREE YEARS_ of non-stop running, 24/7...
> 
> Sorry, I'm not buying it ;-) That engine must have had a 'prior life' in some sort of industrial application before it was put in that boat...
> 
> If true, the notion of racking up 26K engine hours on a 34' _sailboat_, simply boggles the mind...
> 
> ;-)


I made mention of that Jon, but no reply from Don. I know the boat, after following the previous owner's blog - http://www.svkaleo.com/forsale/. They show 3471 hours when it went on the market. Not sure. I doubt Don put thousands of hours on that engine in a couple of years. Maybe he drinks a lot of rum? I don't think so well under it's influence either...you could ask him - http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f129/the-nomad-has-a-coranary-148889.html

Ralph


----------



## seaner97

Pretty sure it was a typo.


----------



## Don L

I doubt that how many hours someone else has on their engine has any relationship to how many hours you will get on yours!

I bet more engines are killed by "kindness" of not running their them much and die at low hours than engines that are run a lot.


----------



## chall03

*BFS training*

Last week we did something kinda dumb. Or did we?

Being the middle of winter Sydney was hit by a passing cold front. We waited for it to hit, checked on the conditions and seastate( about 30-35 knots) rugged up the kids, stocked the boat up with hot food and sailed on out into it.

In the bay it was windy and fun. Outside it was bloody hardwork and unpleasant, but after a year of mostly fair weather picnic sailing it shook the cobwebs out real quick.

While many would think us morons to sail out into such conditions with the kids onboard the reality is that if we can't sail in these conditions we are very much morons to be talking about crossing oceans as a family. We wanted to make sure that we still knew what we were doing, and it is equally important to us that the kids are comfortable and can handle heavier weather.

With so much focus now on avoiding bad weather and having the right safety gear I wonder how many people do spend time just trying to be good sailors?

*Disclaimer - My wife and I have both been sailing & racing for 15 years/We push ourselves only within limits we are comfortable with/our situation on this occasion was such that the refuge of a familiar, protected bay was waiting for us/our boat is fully CAT 1 compliant/our kids handle sailing and the sea well and if they didn't we wouldn't be dong it.


----------



## aeventyr60

^Good on ya. Might be part of the trouble these days, actually getting out in challenging conditions to see how the boat and crew perform.


----------



## jerryrlitton

Totally agree. There are two basic limits; the equipment limits and your limits. You stop when you hit whatever you come to first. I say go for it.


----------



## smackdaddy

*Re: BFS training*



chall03 said:


> Last week we did something kinda dumb. Or did we?
> 
> Being the middle of winter Sydney was hit by a passing cold front. We waited for it to hit, checked on the conditions and seastate( about 30-35 knots) rugged up the kids, stocked the boat up with hot food and sailed on out into it.
> 
> In the bay it was windy and fun. Outside it was bloody hardwork and unpleasant, but after a year of mostly fair weather picnic sailing it shook the cobwebs out real quick.
> 
> While many would think us morons to sail out into such conditions with the kids onboard the reality is that if we can't sail in these conditions we are very much morons to be talking about crossing oceans as a family. We wanted to make sure that we still knew what we were doing, and it is equally important to us that the kids are comfortable and can handle heavier weather.
> 
> With so much focus now on avoiding bad weather and having the right safety gear I wonder how many people do spend time just trying to be good sailors?
> 
> *Disclaimer - My wife and I have both been sailing & racing for 15 years/We push ourselves only within limits we are comfortable with/our situation on this occasion was such that the refuge of a familiar, protected bay was waiting for us/our boat is fully CAT 1 compliant/our kids handle sailing and the sea well and if they didn't we wouldn't be dong it.


Oh hell yeah!!










As you know by now, I think you just did one of the smartest thing any sailor can do.


----------



## smackdaddy

Here's Episode 2 of the saga...

Carib Run: Leg 1 - Episode 2 | SmackTalk!

Enjoy.


----------



## VF84Sluggo

So...are you still stuck in Sabine Pass with no engine? What's the situation with the mechanic/yard over the engine work? 

The video is interesting, but leaves us at a place we already knew where you are.


----------



## smackdaddy

Now this is what it's all about...



JonEisberg said:


> As I'm hoping to be off on a summer cruise before too long, figured I should probably get the account of last summer's trip posted before I do&#8230;Fair warning, this is a _LONG_ one. Anyone who might make it thru to the end, might want to take a bathroom break first&#8230;  Hopefully, some pics will help some muddle through...
> 
> Last summer I headed north, up to Saglek Fiord, Labrador, and return:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Left new Jersey on July 2, rode out Hurricane Arthur up at the Vineyard, and departed Nantucket on the 6th. Returned to the Vineyard on September 10, and spent about a week dawdling my way back home. Total distance traveled: 4018 NM&#8230; For those who subscribe to the oft-stated notion that 90% of cruising is spent at anchor, a summer jaunt to Labrador is probably not for you&#8230;
> 
> My insurance for this trip came in the form of a stack of rather expensive paper almost a foot high, weighing roughly 70 pounds. In addition to the US charts for the NE, I carried the requisite CHS charts for virtually all of Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, and Labrador. 214 charts in all, at $20 each that amounts to a pricey pile of paper. Fortunately, years ago I'd scored most of my charts for NS and NFLD at a good price, but all of my stuff for Labrador was the latest. Still, I consider it to have been money very well spent, I encountered one situation where I could have easily lost the boat had I not had the requisite paper to refer to&#8230; You'd be a braver sailor than I, if you would choose to explore that coast relying on e-charts, alone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Left Nantucket in the wake of Arthur. Blustery SW conditions and rough, confused seas for the first day, but fast sailing wing and wing. By the time I was drawing abeam of Cape Sable, things were settling in nicely, but then the fog came in. Ran the rest of the way to Cape Breton in very heavy fog, became a bit more disconcerting around Halifax after my radar stopped giving any return. Otherwise, an uneventful and pretty quick passage in a boat with only 25' on the waterline, the 500 NM to St Peter's covered in 4 days, with only a couple of hours of engine run time when the breeze died the last night approaching Cape Canso&#8230;
> 
> Lovely couple of days up the Bras d'Or to Baddeck, where I languished for about 3 days. Baddeck is always tough to leave, a wonderful town, and of course the last real 'civilization' I was likely to see for the next 6 weeks&#8230;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lights airs up to and across the Cabot Strait, but it started blowing heading up the west coast of The Rock&#8230;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hard enough that I bailed out into the beautiful Bonne Bay, within Gros Morne National Park. Good call, my 3 days hanging out in the delightful, laid back community of Norris Point turned out to be one of my favorite stops of the entire summer&#8230;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Took one day to climb Gros Morne, NFLD's highest mountain, something I had first done 40 years ago when making a bicycle tour of the Maritimes. It's a pretty challenging hike, felt good to this Old Guy that he could still manage it&#8230;
> 
> Next stop, Labrador&#8230; Another overnight put me up in the Belle Isle Strait the following day, where the wind usually howls. I was flying, but up in the Strait the fog came in, bigtime. Without radar, and with reports from southbound shipping that there were plenty of icebergs north of Belle Isle, it was time to quit. I went into Henley Harbor, another stop that wound up being one of my favorites&#8230;
> 
> I've always had a fascination with abandoned places and ghost towns, and that was one of my main motivations for wanting to see the coast of Labrador&#8230; The once-thriving outport of Henley Harbor was officially 'resettled' about 40 years ago, though a few people return for brief periods each summer. When I came in, there were members of a family who had lived there that were taking their summer vacation in their old home, which was still in remarkably good shape. Delightful folks who gave me a wonderful welcome to their former home, served up some great stories and history lessons&#8230; My first Manhattan to celebrate my arrival in Labrador, was chilled with ice from Greenland they'd procured from the harbor&#8230;
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> I remained fogbound there for a couple of days, wandering around the remains of this beautiful, haunting place, situated beneath the striking rock formation known as the "Devil's Dining Table"&#8230; I was to see many more places like this throughout the course of my trip up the coast, but few more intriguing than this, a very special place, and a fading glimpse at a way of life that is gone, forever&#8230;
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> Hawke Harbor was a fascinating spot to explore, the rusted remains of a whale processing plant abandoned half a century ago&#8230; In its heyday, it was home to 400 whalers and workers. it was also home to some of the most impressively sized bear scat a came across last summer
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> By the time you reach Labrador's mid coast, you begin to appreciate the defining aspects of cruising that coast&#8230; One of them, is the fact that the sailing conditions can be pretty diabolical&#8230; I've never sailed anywhere where the conditions could be more frustrating, or variable&#8230; There were some moments of wonderful sailing, it's just that they never seemed to last more than about 15 minutes. Setting a spinnaker or whisker pole was a virtual guarantee the wind would be on the nose in short order&#8230; And, one learns early on, any time one gets within sight of anything labeled a "Cape" in Labrador, it's time to reef as deeply as you can&#8230; The 'Cape Effects' and katabatic winds one can encounter up there, even on the most benign of days, are truly impressive&#8230;
> 
> As a result, if you want to cover ground along that coast, you'll do plenty of motoring&#8230; And, the logistics of obtaining diesel up there can be a bit daunting at times, as there is not a single fuel dock anywhere along that coast&#8230; In Makkovik - known as "The Friendliest Town in Labrador", I lucked out and the fuel truck was willing to come to me&#8230;
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> Minor inconveniences, however, in comparison to the single biggest downside of cruising Labrador&#8230; Namely, the insects&#8230;
> 
> I grew up and still live on the Jersey Shore, so I'm somewhat acquainted with mosquitos and the like&#8230; But i have never seen anything like the mosquitoes in Labrador. There's no describing how oppressive they can be, at all hours of the day. Full darkness was generally the only time I could sit out in the cockpit in reasonable comfort, at least with a citronella candle close at hand. But that would generally not be until about 11 PM. So, it was a continual bit of disappointment, to be anchored so often in such magnificent surroundings, but to often have to retreat below as soon as the hook was down, to gain refuge from the bugs&#8230; Even getting underway at 0430, you would be swarmed by insects&#8230; Fortunately, once out on the water and moving, they weren't much of a bother, which was a good argument for running the long days I was putting in...
> 
> Nain is the northernmost settlement in Labrador, beyond there you are well and truly on your own, and days will pass without seeing any sign of another human. You want to be well provisioned if heading up there, a half gallon of milk and a loaf of bread in Nain will set you back $15&#8230; And, I rarely got off the boat once north of there, the risk of encountering a polar bear just becomes too extreme&#8230; This anchorage at Manvers Run was one of the few times I went ashore north of Nain, and I certainly didn't wander very far
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> All along, my target for this trip had been to visit the abandoned Moravian mission settlement of Hebron&#8230; Not sure exactly why, but it's always been one of those places I wanted to see someday, and it certainly did not disappoint&#8230; Amazing setting, and the welcome from the small group of caretakers who spend the summer there was very warm, indeed. Mine was the only sailboat they had seen thus far last summer&#8230; This delightful lady named Jenny served as my polar bear monitor, along with her faithful companion, during my wandering around the remains of the settlement&#8230; Just an amazing place, wish I could have lingered a bit longer&#8230;
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> 
> The trip back down was a bit of a slog, but not as bad as I'd expected&#8230; But fighting my way out around Cape Domino about 10 days into the return, I was getting pasted, and decided to bail and take an unscheduled break in the tiny settlement of Black Tickle&#8230; Turned out to be one of the highlights of the trip, and one of my most memorable encounters with the wonderful people of Labrador&#8230;
> 
> Like virtually all of the communities along this coast, Black Tickle is completely isolated, and not connected to anywhere else by road&#8230; A town of about 130 people, their only lifeline to the outside world is the weekly visit from the coastal ferry of Labrador, the NORTHERN RANGER. Turned out the RANGER was calling that night, 2100 on a Saturday night&#8230;
> 
> No question, it's the social event of the week in a place like Black Tickle&#8230; The entire community turns out for her arrival, little kids up past their bedtime are part of the fun. Simply watching her come in was very impressive. I'd crossed paths with her a couple of weeks before around Hopedale, she's a very impressive little ship&#8230; Coming in out of the fog that night, the ship handling skills and work of the crew bringing her alongside, simply awesome&#8230; It was a thrill to be moored right there with her, and in the midst of all the activity of loading and off-loading her for the next couple of hours&#8230;
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> 
> I was immediately greeted by a very friendly and curious Beluga whale, swimming slow circles around the boat. These are known to be among the most 'social' of all marine mammals, and he hovered about the boat all night long...
> 
> In the middle of the night, I was awakened by a faint 'bumping' of the keel... At first I assumed, knowing I was in pretty shallow water, that I was simply lightly touching the bottom at low tide... As I further awoke, however, I realized it was just my new buddy the Beluga, scratching his back or otherwise rubbing himself up against my keel
> 
> Next morning I upped anchor to move over to the public wharf near the fish plant in town... Here's my friend, soaking up the warmer water from my exhaust discharge...
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> 
> Arrived in Newport for the Boat Show weekend, perfect timing, and a wonderful way to wrap up the trip... All in all, that one last summer is gonna be tough to beat, for me...
> 
> So, anyone still awake?


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## RTB

smackdaddy said:


> Here's Episode 2 of the saga...
> 
> Carib Run: Leg 1 - Episode 2 | SmackTalk!
> 
> Enjoy.


Pretty good video, smack. I think you guys need to learn some sea shanties for future adventures. I'm currently hanging in San Antonio with my son, playing Assassins Creed Black Flag. It's a hoot.

Ralph


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## smackdaddy

RTB said:


> Pretty good video, smack. I think you guys need to learn some sea shanties for future adventures. I'm currently hanging in San Antonio with my son, playing Assassins Creed Black Flag. It's a hoot.
> 
> Ralph


Yeah - Jesse is working up some new shanties for our spring continuation of the trip. Eventually he'll figure out there are 3 other strings on the ukulele. But I love his music no matter what.

The boys love Assassin's Creed. It's actually a pretty incredible game due to it's "historical" storyline. They're playing "Rogue" right now.


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## smackdaddy

Here is a very interesting video that gets at the heart of BFS. As I think you'll see, there's a fine line here between the love of hard, challenging sailing - and pure hubris and stupidity.






Thoughts?


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## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> Here is a very interesting video that gets at the heart of BFS. As I think you'll see, there's a fine line here between the love of hard, challenging sailing - and pure hubris and stupidity.
> 
> 
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> 
> Thoughts?


My first thought is that either something was speeded up, or the engine was running on what looks to be a Beneteau 473 in that final shot...

Could be just a coincidence that the engine exhaust appears to be conveniently located on the starboard quarter, of course...

;-)


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## smackdaddy

It's the whole "Bring everything you've got Mother Nature. Don't hold back...so we can beat you at your own game." thing that is way beyond the "good challenge" aspect. That's the hubris and stupidity in this thing that I'm surprised anyone with a sailing background like Quantum would let slide in the copy.


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## oysterman23

smackdaddy said:


> It's the whole "Bring everything you've got Mother Nature. Don't hold back...so we can beat you at your own game." thing that is way beyond the "good challenge" aspect. That's the hubris and stupidity in this thing that I'm surprised anyone with a sailing background like Quantum would let slide in the copy.


Yup thats Hubris. Self congratulatory sap straight out of recent Abercrombie style sheets. Strictly a cut above. Good fun today old chap.... say have that boy polish the binnacle before the next race ..what?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


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## VF84Sluggo

Any status update on "Dawn Treader"?

The suspense is killing me... ;-)


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## smackdaddy

Dude - patience.

Weren't you the one complaining that I'd already given away too much?



VF84Sluggo said:


> The video is interesting, but leaves us at a place we already knew where you are.


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## VF84Sluggo

smackdaddy said:


> Weren't you the one complaining that I'd already given away too much?


Nope, that wasn't me.

I wasn't implying (or complaining) in the comment you quoted from me that you'd said too much...quite the opposite. Just wondering what's going on, that's all.

I'll move along now, no worries...


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## mstern

Given the context (an ad), I wasn't offended. Now, if a real person posted a video with that kind of language ("Gimme all you got Mother Nature"), I'd hurl. Self-important puffery to be sure. But all it does is make me roll my eyes a bit. Not really all that different from the clap trap you see in any car commerical where the ad makes it look like you can change your life with the purchase of a Lincoln.


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## smackdaddy

mstern said:


> Given the context (an ad), I wasn't offended. Now, if a real person posted a video with that kind of language ("Gimme all you got Mother Nature"), I'd hurl. Self-important puffery to be sure. But all it does is make me roll my eyes a bit. Not really all that different from the clap trap you see in any car commerical where the ad makes it look like you can change your life with the purchase of a Lincoln.


Yeah, but when you're saying those words and showing bay racing or mellow jaunts along the coast with your retro-mod beard blowing in the wind - it's stupid.

Show this kind of stuff during that puffery...then see if you keep calling out that Mutha...






Lincolns need not apply.


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## aeventyr60

The comment about being scared and happy and how close those two emotions are sums it up pretty well for me.


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## GeorgeB

Smack, are you jealous that you can't afford to sail the green donut? I'm pretty sure that Quantum was on Groupma and perhaps other boats in the Volvo. Besides, I remember a young Smackdaddy extolling the virtues of burying rails in the water, slicing through boarding waves and such in a little thread he called "BFS". What happened to you? Did you get a little older, a little more experienced? Where did that young, brash Smackdaddy go?  [full disclosure: I have three Quantum Pentax headsails, but a UK Tapedrive main and two North Kites. The Cal 40 flies UK carbon tape drive sails and it's kites are a combination of UK and Pineapple. To paraphrase a TV commercial: "What's in your sail locker?"]


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## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> Smack, are you jealous that you can't afford to sail the green donut? I'm pretty sure that Quantum was on Groupma and perhaps other boats in the Volvo.


I have no doubt that Quantum was on some of these boats. And yes I'd LOVE to sail a VO70 - and will eventually. A group I'm involved with came very close to buying Camper for some very big sailing indeed (you might remember *my video* of me touring it in Southampton). Getting a VOR boat is still a possibility. We'll see how it all shakes out.



GeorgeB said:


> Besides, I remember a young Smackdaddy extolling the virtues of burying rails in the water, slicing through boarding waves and such in a little thread he called "BFS". What happened to you? Did you get a little older, a little more experienced? Where did that young, brash Smackdaddy go?


Hell no. Still the same old Smack. I like "heavy weather" sailing. But there's a VERY big difference between burying a rail and/or having a wave or two wash over you in sporty conditions offshore - and what you see in that VOR video in the Southern Ocean.

And knowing that, anyone that challenges the sea to throw it's best at them so they can "beat it at its own game" is a freakin' idiot. Period. Remember that pro who was scared? He's not the only one.



GeorgeB said:


> [full disclosure: I have three Quantum Pentax headsails, but a UK Tapedrive main and two North Kites. The Cal 40 flies UK carbon tape drive sails and it's kites are a combination of UK and Pineapple. To paraphrase a TV commercial: "What's in your sail locker?"]


I've got nothing at all against Quantum (though I'm personally a North fan). But this spot of theirs is stupid. No question.


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## RTB

smackdaddy said:


> And knowing that, anyone that challenges the sea to throw it's best at them so they can "beat it at it's own game" is an idiot.


....and never, NEVER, whistle for wind! Most likely to get more than you asked for.

Ralph


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## GeorgeB

Smack, you are in advertising, right? Is it more a professional jealousy that has your dander up? You talk a good game, but I'm beginning to think you are one of those Chardonnay sippers that is not part of Quantum's targeted market. :devilDon't feel so bad - our sport needs your kind too. :laughSo you have North not so much by choice, but because that is what came on your boat when you bought it? There is a big difference between "close to" and actually doing. If that was the case I'd be racing around on ET today.

A little eye candy for those who aren't afraid to spill their Chardonnay. I didn't realize that H20Shots caught us in the middle of our only broach on the Delta Ditch Run. Cal 40's are great boats - once we got the pressure off the main - she came right back up and straightened out without missing a beat. Good enough for a second.

https://h2oshots.smugmug.com/keyword/DitchRun/i-NqjrZzZ/A


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## smackdaddy

GeorgeB said:


> Smack, you are in advertising, right? Is it more a professional jealousy that has your dander up? You talk a good game, but I'm beginning to think you are one of those Chardonnay sippers that is not part of Quantum's targeted market. :devilDon't feel so bad - our sport needs your kind too. :laughSo you have North not so much by choice, but because that is what came on your boat when you bought it?


Whose sails are on the VO65s? Hmmm?



GeorgeB said:


> A little eye candy for those who aren't afraid to spill their Chardonnay. I didn't realize that H20Shots caught us in the middle of our only broach on the Delta Ditch Run. Cal 40's are great boats - once we got the pressure off the main - she came right back up and straightened out without missing a beat. Good enough for a second.
> 
> https://h2oshots.smugmug.com/keyword/DitchRun/i-NqjrZzZ/A


Now see, people...

THAT'S an Oh hell yeah!!










PS - The Cal 40 rates a good bit higher than my H40...but still...


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## Sal Paradise

The video for me really came across as arrogant and stupid. Not a "sale" for me.


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## jackdale

Next BFS

Cape Town, St Helena, Fernando de Noronha, Îles du Salut, Trinidad










Leopard 44.

Leaving home September 11. (I know, I know)

Home end of October.

I will try to be more diligent about some posts.

Jack


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## smackdaddy

WOOHOOO!!!! That is definitely a BFS, Jack.

I can't wait for the stories. Have a great trip. Do you have a SPOT or any way for us to follow along?


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## jackdale

smackdaddy said:


> WOOHOOO!!!! That is definitely a BFS, Jack.
> 
> I can't wait for the stories. Have a great trip. Do you have a SPOT or any way for us to follow along?


No SPOT -yet. The owner might be interested.


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## smackdaddy

Here's the next installment (Episode 3) of our Carib Run. Lots of mayhem, good food, bad news, and product reviews.


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## RTB

I love those boys of yours, smack. Oh, and my wife (after seeing that seafood dinner, complimented with Doritos) says that's such a "GUY BOAT". Too funny. 

Good onya for providing dockside entertainment. Funny how the cameras are never rolling for those "special" moments. 

What camera are you using? The video looks good.

Ralph


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## smackdaddy

I've shot pretty much everything with my iPhone 5. Its auto-focus is sketchy when you pan from one thing to another (like turning it around for the selfies or focusing on the light then the bugs on boat, etc.) - and I just downloaded an app to have more control over the exposure/white-balance so that it doesn't keep changing like in my explanation of the bulkhead smack. So I'm still figuring it out. But it's superhandy in that it's a camera, recorder, phone, chartplotter, etc. all rolled into one.

And of course it's a guy boat!!!!!


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## TakeFive

Enjoyed the video. Next time you need to be towed in close quarters, make sure the friend knows how to rig a hip tow. That might have allowed him to slow you down. Glad the boat emerged safely from that little fiasco.

I know very little about CNG, but I do know that there's a lot of work going on to power school bus fleets with it. I was involved with a proposal to build a CNG fueling station for local school buses (which we ultimately decided not to do). So if you're looking for CNG infrastructure, you might see if there's a school bus CNG fueling station nearby. Not sure if they would have compatible fittings, etc, but it's a start.


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## bob77903

I've stayed at that same marina Steve, and agree, the folks there take great care of you....


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## smackdaddy

bob77903 said:


> I've stayed at that same marina Steve, and agree, the folks there take great care of you....


Very cool, Bob! Yeah, _we're_ full timers there now - so their reputation has definitely taken a hit.


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## bob77903

It was Dec. 2009 we stopped there, so they were still getting things sorted out after Ike. But am pretty sure that 70 footer was there, in front of the fuel pumps.


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## smackdaddy

TakeFive said:


> Enjoyed the video. Next time you need to be towed in close quarters, make sure the friend knows how to rig a hip tow. That might have allowed him to slow you down. Glad the boat emerged safely from that little fiasco.


I asked him to do a hip tow - but he said he'd tried it before, as well as towing from the bow - and his dinghy couldn't handle it. So all he could do was push. We obviously weren't in a position to be too picky.

The bottom line was, as he said, that he had no idea the Hunter would move that quickly and easily through the water. Obviously he wasn't used to fast design of the Hunter 40.



TakeFive said:


> I know very little about CNG, but I do know that there's a lot of work going on to power school bus fleets with it. I was involved with a proposal to build a CNG fueling station for local school buses (which we ultimately decided not to do). So if you're looking for CNG infrastructure, you might see if there's a school bus CNG fueling station nearby. Not sure if they would have compatible fittings, etc, but it's a start.


I looked into this and found instructions to build your own adapter for filling the cylinder at an auto fill station. The problem there is that these older tanks are rated for much lower pressure than what you get at the auto fill place. So it's pretty sketchy.

I did find a service in Florida that will fill your marine tank. But I haven't been able to find anything else between there and Texas. It's crazy really. CNG is a much better gas for boats if you ask me.


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## smackdaddy

bob77903 said:


> It was Dec. 2009 we stopped there, so they were still getting things sorted out after Ike. But am pretty sure that 70 footer was there, in front of the fuel pumps.


Yeah - Art was there during Ike (though not on board obviously). His boat came free, took out several pylons and was deposited in the marsh to the south of the marina. A little beat up - but he just moved it back into the water and cleaned it up and kept trucking. It's a stout boat.


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## bob77903

smackdaddy said:


> Yeah - Art was there during Ike (though not on board obviously). His boat came free, took out several pylons and was deposited in the marsh to the south of the marina. A little beat up - but he just moved it back into the water and cleaned it up and kept trucking. It's a stout boat.


Maybe a "BFS" for the boat


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## smackdaddy

We had a BLAST on "Fiasco" today...our 1973 Spirit 17 beachcat. And we learned a lot.










We went to Lake Travis around 1300 and the wind was really fluky and generally in the 8-10 range. We sailed for an hour or so, then let our friends take her out on their own for another hour or so. It was really great. But we wanted a bit more.

As the evening came on the wind started building to the 10-15 range, Quinn and I took her out once more to see if we could get a hull up. On our last run before we were to head back to the dock we saw some white caps to windward and knew we had a 15-20 gust coming in. He was manning the jib sheets and I was on the tiller and main sheet. We were honking along at almost 12 knots (according to the GPS) having a BLAST. Then our hull lifted out of the water. Magic. Quinn was just starting to say something...

Then an even bigger gust hit. I tried to blow the mainsheet with my right hand but it was clamped tight. I kicked at the line with my foot to try to clear it out of the cam-cleat at the last second, but it was too late. We went over.

We both landed easily in the main and I immediately blew all the sheets and swam over to our righting line and threw it over the upper hull. But I could tell our old 1973 mast was quickly filling with water. Within seconds she turtled. Crap. Quinn and I were not nearly heavy enough to fix this one on our own.

A wakeboard boat full of very cool Young Punks came by and tried to help us right her by tying the righting line off to their sky-rack. And we got her mast back up to the surface - but with the rope so high on their sky-rack, we couldn't get that last bit to flip her and she twisted around her stern. Unfortunately, as she did so, the kid was still applying power and the mast/sail swept over the top of me. That was a bit scary as I basically "ran" underwater with my hands (pushing the sails up and myself down) to keep the sails and lines from snagging me because I knew she'd turtle again and I'd be screwed if I got hung up. But I came out the other side okay.

Then a couple of sheriffs boats came over and we tied another line to the aft pylon. Me and two other big deputies stood on the underwater tramp rail, cranked on the righting lines as the two boats pulled in unison, and FINALLY got her righted. Water was spraying out of the mast. Okay - time for a mast-head float! I'm not all about the turtle.

I was AMAZED that the rigging, chainplates, and even the hulls held together with all that force (mast full of water, sails full of water, 2 big dual-motor boats cranking her over). She's a tough broad, this Fiasco.

We then sailed most of the way slowly back to the ramp under main alone (the jib had twisted underwater and I didn't want to mess with it), then the deputies towed us the last bit to the dock as the wind died away to nothing. Great guys.

So, they say you haven't sailed a beachcat until you've gone over. We can now check that off our list. Fiasco bucked us again! But we got her back home in one piece and the hulls didn't leak a bit!

Quinn and I talked about how incredibly cool - and really non-scary - it was. I think with a float up top we'll be fine. But we REALLY love this beachcat thing. It's freakin' fast and responsive and just crazy.

We're all about The Fiasco!!!!

BFS FOR SURE!!


----------



## VF84Sluggo

Smack, sounds like a fun time!

This past weekend I signed my youngest son up for a beginner sailing class. They use a Sunfish for the students, each with their own boat, and the instructors initially sail along in a Sunfish giving basic instructions and corrections.

Then after a lunch break a course is setup, using orange markers. They use an initial setup perpendicular to the wind, then added a third ball so that all the points of sail are practiced, and requiring tacking and gybing.

I couldn't resist, so I asked if I could get in the class! I hadn't sailed a Laser-size boat in years, and since the cost was only $35, heck, it was worth it just to rent a Sunfish for the day. It was a blast!!! My son earned his Beginner Skipper qual, and a fun day was had by all.


----------



## smackdaddy

VF84Sluggo said:


> Smack, sounds like a fun time!
> 
> This past weekend I signed my youngest son up for a beginner sailing class. They use a Sunfish for the students, each with their own boat, and the instructors initially sail along in a Sunfish giving basic instructions and corrections.
> 
> Then after a lunch break a course is setup, using orange markers. They use an initial setup perpendicular to the wind, then added a third ball so that all the points of sail are practiced, and requiring tacking and gybing.
> 
> I couldn't resist, so I asked if I could get in the class! I hadn't sailed a Laser-size boat in years, and since the cost was only $35, heck, it was worth it just to rent a Sunfish for the day. It was a blast!!! My son earned his Beginner Skipper quail, and a fun day was had by all.


Oh hell yeah!!


----------



## smackdaddy

I found some video of the moment we flipped...






I like PJ's quote:



> "It was such a silly mistake," said Peter Johnstone, Gunboat's founder and G4 crew member. "A gust hit us and for some reason we didn't dump the mainsheet and she just carried on heeling."


Yeah - it was a lot like that. I feel your pain Petey.

Seems like they need a Hobie mast float too.


----------



## jackdale

Sitting in the Cape Town airport waiting for the last of crew to arrive.

The plan is to depart Tuesday for St Helena, Fernando du Noronha, Ile de Salut and Trinidad.

May try to post some photos later.

Jack


----------



## Minnewaska

Best wishes on a safe passage, Jack. Serious trip. Very cool.


----------



## smackdaddy

jackdale said:


> Sitting in the Cape Town airport waiting for the last of crew to arrive.
> 
> The plan is to depart Tuesday for St Helena, Fernando du Noronha, Ile de Salut and Trinidad.
> 
> May try to post some photos later.
> 
> Jack


Have a wonderful sail Jack. How many days estimated between St Helena and Fernando?


----------



## alctel

Not a big sail for most of the people here, but was in 25+ knot winds for the first time this Sunday.

Main only has one reef point though (!?) so had to drop sails when it started gusting over 35 and motor. I am getting that fixed ASAP


----------



## smackdaddy

alctel said:


> Not a big sail for most of the people here, but was in 25+ knot winds for the first time this Sunday.
> 
> Main only has one reef point though (!?) so had to drop sails when it started gusting over 35 and motor. I am getting that fixed ASAP


Sounds like you handled it well. How did everything feel in that 25+ range with the reef? Manageable?


----------



## alctel

smackdaddy said:


> Sounds like you handled it well. How did everything feel in that 25+ range with the reef? Manageable?


Pretty much, though I woulda definately dropped down to two reefs if I had it. It was fine most the time but every gust would heel the boat over.

Main problem is im still a beginner and trying to feel the difference between 'normal' heel and 'oh ****'

Video clip of the part we were still sailing below


----------



## smackdaddy

alctel said:


> Pretty much, though I woulda definately dropped down to two reefs if I had it. It was fine most the time but every gust would heel the boat over.
> 
> Main problem is im still a beginner and trying to feel the difference between 'normal' heel and 'oh ****'
> 
> Video clip of the part we were still sailing below


You definitely have a bit of spank in that main. It looks like you're on a beam reach judging by the windex. From the little bit I know, I'd say she could do with another reef for sure..but you could also open her up a bit more with the traveler (use that traveler!) - and blade her out a bit with the vang which would bleed off some power/twist at the top of the sail...but your boat (and your lovely driver) is handling it pretty well if you ask me.

But, based on that video, I definitely agree that 30 knots would start to get in to some "oh S*$t" moments with that sail plan. I think you made a good call.

The whole point is - get out there and feel your boat in conditions like that. What I see in that vid I would consider "normal heel" in those conditions with that much sail. You could definitely mellow things out with another reef and a bit less headsail.

It's strange but our Hunter 40 in 20+ with full sail was pretty mellow. I'll dig around and find that video.

Boats are different. You just need to figure out what yours wants.

At the end of the day, I'd say it definitely rates...

Oh hell yeah!!


----------



## alctel

BFS approved, whoop!

Not quie sure what 'spank' is, and it's not something I really want to Google... I've tried to use my traveller a few times - the only constant is I seem to make stuff worse. Also in high winds it's almost unusable as it's only a 2:1 (and one of the blocks on each is jammed solid, it's on my list). And no Vang.


----------



## smackdaddy

Get that traveler fixed. You probably should get sail trimming advice from some of the more advanced sailors around here like George, Jon, Jeff, Rich, etc. - but the traveler allows you to open/close the sail, yet keep your sheet trim. Great for puffs.

Of course, you were way beyond puffs and well into "spank", so you needed both traveler AND mainsheet open enough to control the boat, taking that belly out of the top of the sail.

Anyway, ya did good. Hopefully some of these guys will come along and give you better sail trim advice. I know the rudiments, but I'm still learning...just like you.


----------



## jerryrlitton




----------



## chall03

jerryrlitton said:


>


Things just starting to get exciting?


----------



## jerryrlitton

Not too exciting however later on it too 30 minutes to haul the anchor from the mud.


----------



## smackdaddy

Zowie! That's a nice puff.

I bet your rigging was howling! What kind of anchor do you have?


----------



## jerryrlitton

45 CQR. My Rockna 55 will be here shortly and will have them both ready to deploye off the bow.


----------



## smackdaddy

This is how BFS is done, my friends...

From our own Panope:






Freakin' awesome.


----------



## Panope

Thanks Smack. 

Steve


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> This is how BFS is done, my friends...
> 
> From our own Panope:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freakin' awesome.





> _Published on Oct 9, 2015
> 
> Boat is a Colvin, Saugeen Witch. 34 feet and 15,000 lbs. *Wind measured from deck level at 25 knots with gusts to 30.* Boat speed 5 knots under a 120 square foot headsail. Helm was centered and locked for the duration of this video._


Compare and contrast:

;-)



smackdaddy said:


> And here's some nice video of IVT single-handing a Jeanneau 57 in 28 knots...


----------



## Panope

The Jeanneau 57 looks like a very nice boat. However, it's anemometer is a POS.

Steve


----------



## VF84Sluggo

Got "checked out" in a Hunter 18 today...now something else to sail in addition to the Sunfish and Laser from last month's 'checkout.'

As I'm currently a non-owner of a "big" boat, I must say, though, that these day-sailers have been an absolute BLAST! The Hunter 18 handled remarkably well. I was impressed with how well it pointed. One surprise was that my instructor had never hove-to in the boat when I mentioned it. So, we gave it try...worked like a champ! The boat was VERY maneuverable in a man-overboard drill, with the boat never far at all from the marker (which would definitely ease any panic in the overboard person.) Pick your technique, but each one put us back at the 'crewmember' in very short order, easy recovery. Leaving the slip/basin and returning under sail was a also great renewal of boat-handling skills.

I'm telling you, while one day I hope to get another cruiser, these small boats are a great way to stay in touch with sailing. Yeah, it's not fancy, high-tech, or high-dollar...just back-to-basics sailing, and I'm loving it!!


----------



## smackdaddy

Nice Sluggs!!!


----------



## smackdaddy

This first sail is EXACTLY whas BFS is all about. It gave me chills reading it - remembering that feeling of cutting the motor and being in awe...



spiral_72 said:


> Over the weekend was the first trip with the sailboat for my wife and I. Saturday we trailered the SJ23 to lake Murray, SC. It took 1hr to raise the mast, roughly set the lines and back up to the ramp. We floated her, fired the original 6hp 2stroke and intended to run around to the dock to pick up my wife. I'll spare you the horrifying events over the next four hours, but that's when my ignorance showed. I am happy to say our boat survived without a scratch and sit that night all pretty at the slip.
> 
> Sunday we drove back to the slip, I guess to regain our dignity and try again. This time we loaded up, motored about 1/2 mile out into the lake from the inlet and raised the mainsail only.
> 
> About this time is where things get really cool  I'll never forget it:
> 
> My wife slowed the engine to idle, still in gear. It took a couple minutes of drawing diagrams in my head with reference to the wind. Tensioned the halyard, adjusted the traveller, did this and that. Once I was satisfied my wife put the engine in neutral. The sail had some flap in it so I made a couple more adjustments then she stopped the engine. There was complete silence. I think we studied the boat, the wind for ten minutes. I happened to look to the shore which was the moment I realized how far we'd travelled since stopping the engine. I guess there was a astonished look on my face when I turned to my wife and said, "We're sailing!"
> 
> Over the next couple hours several adjustments were made as the wind changed, a few tacks, but overall I just kinda marveled over the thing. The sun set low in the sky so it was time to head back, which was the time we went in irons. I'm still confused about that, but regardless we made it back in and had a blast. I don't know how long it'll take for that "first time" feeling to go away but I suppose I'll miss it some day. That sure was awesome!
> 
> We did remember to bring in all the bumpers so we didn't look like newb's.... made sure of that. Unfortunately we drug a 50ft dock line in the water the whole time and forgot to lift the engine while sailing. I'm not sure how much of a speed penalty that cost us, but I'm guessing we run 2-3 knots average speed..... which reminds me I have to fix the knotmeter.


----------



## Panope

So I was out for a spirited light air sail today (NOT a bfs) and I a got to thinking about wind gradient. Today, I measured the wind at deck level at 6 knots yet the boat was making 5 knots. Surely, stronger wind was present aloft.

JonEisberg's post above compares the similarly reported windspeeds of two very different looking events. My initial reaction was that there must have been a gross error made by the equipment or crew of the Jeanneau 57. However, I just researched the mast height for the Jeanneau and it is just under 80 feet!.

Questions:

Is it possible that wind gradient could account for what appears to be a large error in wind speed reported by the Jeanneau?

When NOAA (or anyone else) gives a marine wind forecast, at what height above sea level are they talking about? What about the Beaufort Scale? 

Do racers or other well equipped yachts ever fit two anemometers, one up at the mast head and the other down low? 

Does wind gradient become more pronounced (as a percentage) as windspeed increases?

Steve


----------



## smackdaddy

Steve - I can certainly see how this would be the case. Here's a good article on wind gradient and shear as related to sailing:










Wind Shear and Gradient - Ockam Sailing Instruments

As you can see, the curves are pretty pronounced at 80' where the cups are. That, coupled with fetch and duration of the wind can easily explain the appearance of the water in these videos.

And here's another article:

http://www.cavalier28.com/wind-shear


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay - I don't think I'll rate this one a BFS - but it sure is funny:


----------



## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> Steve - I can certainly see how this would be the case. Here's a good article on wind gradient and shear as related to sailing:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wind Shear and Gradient - Ockam Sailing Instruments
> 
> As you can see, the curves are pretty pronounced at 80' where the cups are. That, coupled with fetch and duration of the wind can easily explain the appearance of the water in these videos.
> 
> And here's another article:
> 
> http://www.cavalier28.com/wind-shear


Nice! Now if I can just wrap my head around this enough to properly adjust mainsail twist to conditions...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


----------



## Capt Len

Off Victoria water front ,where I spent a lot of time, the failing northerly which is a fine warm wind , is ridden over by a cold prevailing westerly. This happens almost unnoticed until you see the gaff peak gybing and still full and bye on the other tack at deck..Can be be interesting as westerly can be soon 25 kn or more.


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> As you can see, the curves are pretty pronounced at 80' where the cups are. That, coupled with fetch and duration of the wind *can easily explain the appearance of the water in these videos.*


Dream on...

;-)

The mast height on this Lyman Morse Seguin 52 is 78 feet...

Wind speed - measured at the masthead - on this day was about 25-30, with some higher gusts to about 35...



















Sorry, one still has to be delusional, to believe it was blowing 28 at the top of that Jeanneau 57 mast in your video...

;-)


----------



## smackdaddy

Yeah, I know - you keep saying that.

But then there's the whole science thing...

Oh, and I've been in similar conditions offshore (25-30+)...




























It's fun, eh?


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> Oh, and I've been in similar conditions offshore (25-30+)...
> 
> It's fun, eh?


_It Depends..._

On some boats, it's not much fun at all... ;-)

Then again, I'm a bit of a wimp... To me, 30 knots can be a _LOT_ of wind...

And, to my eye, that video does not feature a _LOT_ of wind...

Just my 'un-scientific' opinion, of course...

;-)


----------



## Shockwave

Jon, the Jeaneau video "sailing in 28 knots" is on there internet, it MUST BE true! 

Some folks are just gullible I guess.


----------



## smackdaddy

Paulo posted this in the Production Boats thread. Judging by the flag at about 0:35, the winds look to be only 5-10 knots. They sure seem to be struggling in such light conditions...






Heh-heh.


----------



## robert sailor

Can't believe the winds are anywhere near 28 knots on the J, further more even Smacks 25-30 is hard to believe, barely a little white cap to be seen. We were in a completely protected anchorage a few weeks ago in Grenada and the wind was 20 knots and the whole bay was white capping. I realize that they are talking apparent winds which are 5-6 knots lower but even 20 knots produces seas more than I see in either pic.


----------



## robert sailor

Just looked at Smacks vid and that breeze was closer to 30 knots.


----------



## JonEisberg

smackdaddy said:


> Paulo posted this in the Production Boats thread. Judging by the flag at about 0:35, the winds look to be only 5-10 knots. They sure seem to be struggling in such light conditions...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heh-heh.


Yeah, a flag mounted at the leeward stern quarter on a boat being sailed with 20 degrees or more of heel, and snagged between a pair of fenders lashed to the rail, is sure to be a definitive indicator of the true wind speed in any video...

;-)


----------



## Capt Len

It must be that cameras are deceiving and the truth is gained by telling and retelling the adventure . Where cat's paws become white horses ,mare's tails become nimbus, rail down becomes knock down. If I ever told such stretched tales about my forty years of sailing the world may I be struck dow


----------



## robert sailor

Capt Len said:


> It must be that cameras are deceiving and the truth is gained by telling and retelling the adventure . Where cat's paws become white horses ,mare's tails become nimbus, rail down becomes knock down. If I ever told such stretched tales about my forty years of sailing the world may I be struck dow


Common Cat. Len you know the older we get the better we were!!! Well to be fair vids and pics do make waves look much smaller and depending on who is telling the stories that can also add several knots and a few feet to wave height.


----------



## smackdaddy

JonEisberg said:


> Yeah, a flag mounted at the leeward stern quarter on a boat being sailed with 20 degrees or more of heel, and snagged between a pair of fenders lashed to the rail, is sure to be a definitive indicator of the true wind speed in any video...
> 
> ;-)


C'mon now - it says right below the video in Swedish that the flag had just been calibrated.


----------



## Panope

Below is a video that I shot during that light air sail that got me thinking about wind gradient. The maximum windspeed that I measured (at deck level) was 7 knots. Boatspeed was at times, a solid 5 knots. I have a hard time believing that my ancient, full keel, hard chine, gaff rig clam crusher with a fixed pitch prop; is capable of this kind of speed with so little wind. I have to believe that considerably more wind was present aloft. Maybe 10 or 12 knots at the mast head?

I agree with the naysayers that the surface wind during the Jeanneau 57 video was much less than 28 knots. And even if the captain did see a readout for a 28 knot gust at the masthead, it would have been good to at least make some sort of mention that it was a 80' MASTHEAD GUST and that the sustained wind at the surface was probably much less.

Steve

Here is my NON-BFS video-


----------



## smackdaddy

Well first Pano, I just like watching your boat sail. She really is beautiful. I also think you're exactly right about this...



Panope said:


> I agree with the naysayers that the surface wind during the Jeanneau 57 video was much less than 28 knots. And even if the captain did see a readout for a 28 knot gust at the masthead, it would have been good to at least make some sort of mention that it was a 80' MASTHEAD GUST and that the sustained wind at the surface was probably much less.


Agreed, the surface wind definitely did not appear to be 28 knots - maybe 15-ish. But it did look a bit gusty during the video - and I honestly don't doubt that he very well could have seen a sustained gust of 28 knots at the top of that mast.

I posted a video of us sailing our boat in very similar conditions. We were out in Galveston Bay in the late morning with the wind predicted to build - coming off the land. As that wind built, the water remained very flat because there was virtually no fetch and it had been very calm during the night. And we saw 22 and 26 knots (which had the forecast had with gusts to 20) from our mast-top anemometer 58' off the water directly on the beam...yet the water was calm. To me, that's a perfect example of wind gradient.

I chose that time and place and those conditions because, since I was about to go offshore with just my boys, I wanted to test various sail configurations in bigger winds than our typical 10-15 knots. The boat was flawless.

In that same video I show conditions offshore in a different boat (a Pearson 365) with the same amount of wind but a very different look. In one of them we have 8'-12' seas due to a sustained 40+ knot storm that had blown out in the Gulf for a couple of days. Photos from that above that look much more like what these guys expect to see with such wind.

We also got hit by a big northerly squall (also above) that had gusts over 30...but the seas are flat because, again, there wasn't time or room for the seas to build since it was coming off the land.

So, my point is, judging wind strength aloft simply by what the water looks like is misguided. Wind gradient and wind shear are very real things.

At the same time, I definitely agree that the dude in Jeanneau video was likely milking a gust 80' above sea level for all it was worth to seil a boat. Hey man, that's what sailing stories are all about!


----------



## Shockwave

A 60 footer in 30 knots makes a much larger wake then those shown in the video. The claim he's sailing in "28" is a joke. Close reaching boat speed in 30 knots on a 60 footer will be in the low to mid teens.

Watch the video, you think that boat is doing 13?


----------



## jackdale

Cape Town to Fernando de Noronha via St Helena.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58626&thumb=1

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58602&thumb=1

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58610&thumb=1

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58618&thumb=1


----------



## Boogie Nights

this was around 20kts of wind









I love sailing offshore and going places as quickly as I can hussle the boat along.


----------



## smackdaddy

jackdale said:


> Cape Town to Fernando de Noronha via St Helena.
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58626&thumb=1
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58602&thumb=1
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58610&thumb=1
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58618&thumb=1


WOWWWWW!!!!!!! That is awesome Jack!!!

Are you going to do a big write-up on the trip?? You have to!!!


----------



## smackdaddy

Boogie Nights said:


> this was around 20kts of wind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love sailing offshore and going places as quickly as I can hussle the boat along.


Oh hell yeah!!










Looks like I've just found another blog to follow..as well as a new BFSer and her chihuahua!

Thanks Boogie! You kind of rock.


----------



## smackdaddy

Okay all you BFSers...you HAVE to check out Boogie's blog. This page is freakin' epic:

Boogie Nights: The Figure Head

This one's my fave:

#longlegsbarbie









That's awesome.


----------



## Panope

Just picked up a new (used) storm jib. 75 square feet. Wind at deck level in the upper 20's. Gust lower 30's. Maybe a gust or two at 35.

I try and keep these NBFDS (No Big Freakin Deal Sails) and this boat makes it easy as no helm inputs were required on this outing (unless I wanted to turn).

Steve


----------



## smackdaddy

Panope - I know you honestly don't care about this - but...

Oh hell yeah!!










Videos like yours above, to me, are absolutely beautiful. Watching a boat like yours handle herself so well in those kinds of conditions really is what sailing, at its core, is about for me (and many others I'm sure). There is so much fear and hype drummed up in the forums about sailing in big conditions - yet you show with the right preparation, skill set, and experience - it's a NBFDS. It's actually gorgeous.

Thanks for that video, dude. It is really, really awesome.


----------



## Panope

Your welcome Smack. We are lucky to have cheap cameras (gopro) available now. Makes it easy to share and document.

My favorite BFS video is "Around the Horn" with Irvine Johnson. I'll never understand how Johnson was able to get that footage from High in the rigging of a tall ship, at Cape Horn, in the dead of winter, during a hurricane force storm. Pity it is no longer available to watch (for free) on-line.

Steve


----------



## smackdaddy

Panope said:


> Your welcome Smack. We are lucky to have cheap cameras (gopro) available now. Makes it easy to share and document.
> 
> My favorite BFS video is "Around the Horn" with Irvine Johnson. I'll never understand how Johnson was able to get that footage from High in the rigging of a tall ship, at Cape Horn, in the dead of winter, during a hurricane force storm. Pity it is no longer available to watch (for free) on-line.
> 
> Steve


Yeah - I know that video. It was crazy.


----------



## MedSailor

I pushed my limits this weekend while competing in the "Round the County" race. Since my first RTC several years ago where we saw mid-high 20s windspeeds for the 2 days of racing, I've been hooked. Sometimes it turns out to be a drifting race, but often we get a good blow and it pushes my comfort and skill level upwards with regard to heavy weather.

This year's race didn't disappoint on day one. We started downwind with wind in the 20s. It quickly built and varies significantly with wind speeds rapidly changing from low to mid 20s to low 30s. Combine that with a strong current opposing the wind direction and there were tall, square, weird waves that made steering a challenge to say the least.

I was on a J-120 this year and once we got the kite up we started planing like crazy. For about 2 hours we were sustaining boat speeds of 12-13 knots with our boat speed record (speed over the water) for the day being a short surf at 15.2knots. The wake from the back of the boat was impressive!

Controlling the kite and keeping it from killing us, when the wind would go from 26 to 34knots and back while the waves tried to death roll us kept us on our toes. At one point I was manning the spin sheet and we ended up rounding up and starting to crash when the spin sheet temporarily got bound up. I quickly freed it and then "quickly eased some sheet in a timely manner", per the captain's suggestion, to keep the mast generally pointed upwards. After we recovered from that we noticed that during that period of excitement we had melted a section of the brand new spin sheet jacket to the winch. Some big loads there.... Twas a good day to have on some real sailing gloves and maintain a healthy fear of the winch and sheet.

Day 1 saw lots of carnage. Lots of roundups and accidental jibes and blowns chutes. One near MOB with the guy fully overboard hanging by one hand, one reported spinal fracture (not yet confirmed) and Dragonfly, a 40ft racing cat that rates PHRF-104 (yes NEGATIVE 104), and is very experienced with this race, pitchpoled and lost their rig. All 5 crew were quickly recovered.










On day one, instead of arriving after dark, which was our crew's custom when the owner had a different boat, we instead arrived before the party started. Instead of arriving to empty kegs, we arrived before the beer delivery! We took 2nd in our division on day 1, being beat by the boat that was first overall (90 boats). On corrected time, we actually beat ALL of the IRC division boats which included a santa cruz 50, 52 and 70, 3 transpac 52s a J-145 and some other big boys with semi-pro crews.

Day 2 you ask? We don't talk about day 2. It took us an HOUR to cross the start line. Wind died as we were about 20 seconds from starting and never came back. Current pulled us away from the line. DNF. Drank beer. 

I was too busy trying not to die to take photos but in the photo below taken from the front of the pack, we're the purple and blue chute when nearly everyone else was too chicken to fly the kite. 










Again the pruple and blue chute chasing the leaders. 









MedSailor 
Photo credit: Sean Trew photography.


----------



## smackdaddy

Wow - 'tis the season!

Oh hell yeah!!










Awesome write-up dude.


----------



## XSrcing

Here is video of the race from a Catalina 36.


----------



## smackdaddy

XSrcing said:


> Here is video of the race from a Catalina 36.







Oh hell yeah!!


----------



## Faster

Our son and his wife and their crew did this race last weekend on their Schock 35.. Finished 2nd in div. Peak gusts they saw were 37K, ironically Sunday was a drifter...


----------



## Minnewaska

I need something in context here. Is BFS a commercial sponsor of this site? BFS is indisputably a commercial enterprise. Happy to post the Texas dept of state incorporation records, if that's in dispute.

If so, it's clearer to me why Smack has so much time and energy to provoke "epic" threads.

If not, what's with the sig line link to it's website, trademarked pics, and thread title. All look like advertising to me.

Either is fine, I'm just trying to understand if we're all interacting with a fellow sailor or someone with a business motive?


----------



## mgiguere

Good Afternoon:

We take Crishelle (a 1969 Chris Craft Apache 37 sloop)out whenever we have small craft warnings on the Chesapeake. Enjoy.






Moe


----------



## smackdaddy

mgiguere said:


> Good Afternoon:
> 
> We take Crishelle (a 1969 Chris Craft Apache 37 sloop)out whenever we have small craft warnings on the Chesapeake. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moe


Holy crap Moe - that's freakin' awesome! I'd say the SNers are seriously bringing it this season! As you said, "Woo baby!!!"






That's what it's all about.


----------



## Don L

I always kind of wonder how bad conditions can really be if people can video them.


----------



## XSrcing

Don0190 said:


> I always kind of wonder how bad conditions can really be if people can video them.


The guy who recorded that is rail meat on a bunch of boats out there and films every race/cruise.


----------



## Minnewaska

Minnewaska said:


> I need something in context here. Is BFS a commercial sponsor of this site? BFS is indisputably a commercial enterprise. Happy to post the Texas dept of state incorporation records, if that's in dispute.
> 
> If so, it's clearer to me why Smack has so much time and energy to provoke "epic" threads.
> 
> If not, what's with the sig line link to it's website, trademarked pics, and thread title. All look like advertising to me.
> 
> Either is fine, I'm just trying to understand if we're all interacting with a fellow sailor or someone with a business motive?


24 hours of crickets........

I will keep asking.


----------



## bob77903

Minnewaska said:


> 24 hours of crickets........
> 
> I will keep asking.


Do you make Smack pay rent for the space you allow him to occupy in your mind.....jeez man, give it a rest, get a hobby, go sailing...cheers


----------



## seaner97

Minnewaska said:


> Minnewaska said:
> 
> 
> 
> I need something in context here. Is BFS a commercial sponsor of this site? BFS is indisputably a commercial enterprise. Happy to post the Texas dept of state incorporation records, if that's in dispute.
> 
> If so, it's clearer to me why Smack has so much time and energy to provoke "epic" threads.
> 
> If not, what's with the sig line link to it's website, trademarked pics, and thread title. All look like advertising to me.
> 
> Either is fine, I'm just trying to understand if we're all interacting with a fellow sailor or someone with a business motive?
> 
> 
> 
> 24 hours of crickets........
> 
> I will keep asking.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a legit question to me. Just because it was sparked by finally getting fed up with his BS doesn't change its validity.


----------



## Minnewaska

bob77903 said:


> Do you make Smack pay rent for the space you allow him to occupy in your mind.....jeez man, give it a rest, get a hobby, go sailing...cheers


Just looking for context, as I said. Either answer is fine.

I would like to know if my input is essentially being used to fuel a business model, or I'm just having a dockside conversation.

I understand I'm fueling SN's business model, we all are. We can decide whether or not we wish to provide content with that understanding.

However, BFS is vague. If I'm buying or supporting a product, by engaging in Smack's epic thread, I should know.


----------



## RobGallagher

It seems clear that Smack is promiting his online BFS logo garb.

The logo he stamps on everyone's post is the same one he sells.

The link to his "store" is at the bottom of every post. 

Does it break the rules here? He's been doing it long enough and the moderators don't seem to care so he must not be breaking any rules.


----------



## smackdaddy

And now back to our regularly scheduled programme:


----------



## aloof

Taking a reef....pretty good for that sailor's first try. I would have been back in my bunk at the 4:00 minute mark. I would not have that mess of lines flying about. Nothing good can come of that mess. Nor have that big laundry bag along the boom flying out in the wind. My reefed mainsail foot would be lashed to the boom. What happens when a wave fills that floppy bag? At what windspeed does it turn itself to shreds? Yikes. 

Did the sailor tighten the outhaul before the halyard? Does that work? Looks like he let far too much halyard go.

The spray is enjoyable between the tropics. Not so much elsewhere.


----------



## Panope

Another test sail for my new (used) storm jib. NOAA reported 38 knots (Point Wilson) and 45 knot gusts (Port Townsend Ferry dock).

Sailing was manageable. I moved the dinghy from the davit to the cabin trunk expecting a change in sail balance - none noticed. Boat still held courses with the helm locked.

Returning to the marina was at the limit of what I would attempt as the risk of damaging other persons boats was significant. It all worked out fine by tying to the easily accessed fuel dock until the gale passed.

Steve


----------



## smackdaddy

Panope - I think you might be my new hero.


----------



## Panope

The hero is Tom Colvin (R.I.P.) for designing such a forgiving boat that keeps this novice safe.

Steve


----------



## VF84Sluggo

Lazy day on the Hunter 18...a little "heave to" for a lunch break and to find the Auburn football broadcast, a downwind run wing-and-wing


----------



## smackdaddy

VF84Sluggo said:


> Lazy day on the Hunter 18...a little "heave to" for a lunch break and to find the Auburn football broadcast, a downwind run wing-and-wing


Ah yes - the famous foot-steer. Very nice Slugs!


----------



## bigdogandy

VF84Sluggo said:


> Lazy day on the Hunter 18...a little "heave to" for a lunch break and to find the Auburn football broadcast, a downwind run wing-and-wing


Nice pics...looks like a beautiful day on the water. Wish the game had turned out differently, though. War Eagle.


----------



## VF84Sluggo

Yes it sure was...and as you suggest, a better game result would have been nice. My brother's wishing they'd have held off on the new giant Jumbo-tron and instead have that money handy for coach buy-outs!

Funny thing, though: a sweet fall day on the water makes for a good salve on the wound. Helped me get over it pretty quickly ��



smackdaddy said:


> Ah yes - the famous foot-steer. Very nice Slugs!


LOL... had to do something to hold the rudder while I tuned the radio. Since I was all out of hands, I figured a foot would have to do (and seemed a little more expedient than lashing the tiller to a cleat)


----------



## smackdaddy

Oh boy, the multi dudes are not going to be happy. How about a race between a heavy mono and a light performance cat?

53 foot Amel Super Maramu vs. Barramundi 470 Custom Cat

And the cat is humiliated????? Ouch.


----------



## chall03

Yup 

I love the Delos peeps.


----------



## bob77903

Dunno Smack, New Year, new look, I'll have to ponder on it


----------



## XSrcing

Winter be damned. After our stupid loss to Carolina my friend Alan and I decided the best course of action was to take his J40 out around Eliza Is and back. Blowing 15-20, gusting 25, 40*f and raining, light seas. First time driving any kind of sailboat since 2007. It was too short a day.


----------



## smackdaddy

XSrcing said:


> Winter be damned. After our stupid loss to Carolina my friend Alan and I decided the best course of action was to take his J40 out around Eliza Is and back. Blowing 15-20, gusting 25, 40*f and raining, light seas. First time driving any kind of sailboat since 2007. It was too short a day.


Oh hell yeah!!


----------



## jackdale

Finally! This is the slides for the seminar that I am doing at the Vancouver Boat Show on Wednesday. Cape Town to Fernando de Noronha Brasil.





 * Avoiding cat astrpohe * from *Jack Dale*


----------



## tdw

Not sure what happened there Jack but the file is not visible. For interested parties , if you right click on the title it will take you to the presentation. (forget it, link in previous JD post is fixed)

Not sure if this is BFS applicable but I was just over at YBW and saw the link to this video. Fookin' 'ell. Bit rich for a tired old sod like me but wow. (apologies if this is old news)


----------



## smackdaddy

Holy crap. Seeing that thing flying on a foil is mind-blowing.

I LOVE what technology is doing to sailing.

And in case there was any question...

Oh hell yeah!!


----------



## zeehag

40 baba sailors run.
southern indian ocean 
time ~ now---
holy mog seas and winds... bare poles 3-4 kts. 
jeff hartjoy. 
solo rtw all capes.. is past half way.
i think he has deserved his admission into this beast of a bunch... ye think?? 


" HE IS IN A BIG STORM 50-65 KNOTS & FORTY FOOT WAVES MAYBE HIGHER!! 
HE IS DRAGGING A DROGUE GOING BEAR POLES AND STILL DOING 3 KNOTS. (Drogue is a device funnel shaped w/open ends towed behind the boat, Bear Poles is not having any Sails up)
HE SAYS THIS IS A BAD ONE AND THE STORM HAD BEEN ON HIM FOR 24 HOURS. THE BAROMETER HAS STARTED RISING SO I PRAY IT WILL ABATE SOON 
I JUST GOT HIT ON THE STERN (back of boat) BY A BIG WAVE AND WE HIT 9.1 KTS AND THAT IS WITH THE DROGUE"


----------



## smackdaddy

zeehag said:


> 40 baba sailors run.
> southern indian ocean
> time ~ now---
> holy mog seas and winds... bare poles 3-4 kts.
> jeff hartjoy.
> solo rtw all capes.. is past half way.
> i think he has deserved his admission into this beast of a bunch... ye think??
> 
> " HE IS IN A BIG STORM 50-65 KNOTS & FORTY FOOT WAVES MAYBE HIGHER!!
> HE IS DRAGGING A DROGUE GOING BEAR POLES AND STILL DOING 3 KNOTS. (Drogue is a device funnel shaped w/open ends towed behind the boat, Bear Poles is not having any Sails up)
> HE SAYS THIS IS A BAD ONE AND THE STORM HAD BEEN ON HIM FOR 24 HOURS. THE BAROMETER HAS STARTED RISING SO I PRAY IT WILL ABATE SOON
> I JUST GOT HIT ON THE STERN (back of boat) BY A BIG WAVE AND WE HIT 9.1 KTS AND THAT IS WITH THE DROGUE"


Jeff is* THE REAL DEAL*. I've been following him via Bob's posts about him.

I'm not even going to stamp this one BFS because there is no question. None. He is Hall of Fame Material (Actually, I think I'll make a new stamp. Hang on a mo.)

Here we go:


----------



## zeehag

wotz cool is cool in person as well. human beings who sail


----------



## smackdaddy

Another sloop in a storm? With a rolling furler?






Watch to the very end. That's what I'm talkin' about.


----------



## Windkiller

Weeell
My BFS story isn't that mighty and it was really a motor sail, or the scariest bit was.
I'm mostly a dinghy sailor but I currently have a Danica 16 (little full keel double ender)
For my BFS I was crossing Georgia straight solo sailing my friend's home built wooden 20 ft George Holme's Eel inspired Canoe Yawl, Pilgrim's Wake for the first time.
I let myself be convinced by those 'more experienced' that sleeping in and riding the tide through Porlier pass(where the current can get up to 8 knots) into the strait where it was forecast to blow 10-15knots would be a good idea( I had planned to hit the pass at slack, take it easy in the lighter late morning breezes)
Had a nice sail around Thetis Island and to the pass under all sail (main jib mizzen). I went into Porlier pass with the big gaff main up but under power (6hp one lung inboard diesel, bukka bukka bukka) Had the Main up in case of engine failure. Hit 9 knots going through the pass and had to contend with whirlpools that would throw my bow around like mad. There was a big roughly 40 ft sailboat ahead of me and as the line of white tide rip at the entrance to the straight (that we were both aiming to avoid) suddenly swung over in front of us, i saw this big boat start to buck and twist at times dropping out of sight! Needless to say I wasn't thrilled. I started experiencing the same sorts of things and at this point I clipped in. 

Pilgrims Wake is small ,stoutly built , but low in the water and I would look up to see these waves coming at me with these nice ice-bergy translucent green tops with the sun shining through them. The main was still up and the wind was from the North East, at least 15 knots and hitting me right on the beam (as were the waves) so I turned into it a bit to avoid being pushed over.
Then I got hit by a huge wave that ran down the length of the boat soaking me to the skin and filling the cockpit(happily self-draining) I lost sight of the other boat in front of me at times. The waves seemed to be about 6-8 ft and were very close together. There was no gently riding up and down on them and they usually loomed above me in a menacing fashion.
I would go up, up, up one and then boom down into the trough if I didn't manage it just right.
At this point I tried to take down the main , using the tiller pilot to steer me into the wind but when I scuttled forward to bring the gaff down ,the tiller pilot couldn't handle the conditions and was basically useless, letting the wind and waves push me sideways, so I left the main up.
Despite the sun I was shivering , soaked and cold and when the second big wave ran down the boat and hit me smack in the face, filling the cockpit again etc, I got &*^%*(& mad!! I was still scared but now I was more mad than scared!
I started to plan for things like capsize, Using the radio to call for help etc. I could see the big 40 boat way to the south of me heading across the straight only flying a tiny hanky of a roller furled jib.

I looked over to Vancouver and knew that it was at least 4 hours away and there was NO way I could turn back as my max hull speed was 6 knots and the current in the pass was at least as fast. 
I couldn't leave the tiller, couldn't eat, couldn't &^%*&^ pee. At one point I did manage to change into a dry set of clothes that I had but then BOOM another huge wave washed down the boat at mid mast height and soaked me again making me even more mad!! &^(&*^*( waves!!! &^%*&^ wind!!!!

I then (to maintain my spirits and because I was feeling a little crazy) started to sing every song I ever knew at the top of my lungs. I even sang 100 bottles of beer on the wall which incidentally takes approx 13 min including melodic variations (musician)
It was pretty consistent all the way across, big chop with a 15-20 knot wind whipping the tops. The diesel kept chugging along and I was spilling wind out of the main like crazy to stay upright(basically on a beam reach of sorts)
After about 3 hours of this I found I was heading too far north (and I really had to &*^%(*& pee) as I tried to keep the bow taking the waves at an angle.
So I made the nerve-wracking decision to turn downwind and take the waves and the wind on the port stern quarter.

This was actually a lot less tense, despite having to saw the tiller back and forth like mad as the waves pushing me from behind caused me to swing all over the place. It was psycholgically beneficial to not have to watch them coming at me! As the 3000 lbs 20 ft Pilgrims Wake was now surfing these big waves I pulled the board up and killed the engine. At points I hit 11 knots (on the GPS)...pretty exhilarating until I would look behind me and see a 20 ft log sail past my stern..... This immediately got me scanning the water ahead for similar hazards. I would see none, relax, then look behind me and see another giant nasty looking log that had just missed me sail past, repeat... So know I'm actually sailing, just on the gaff main (actually more of an almost vertical gunter rig) and the pressure on the 18' mast had the forestay idly swing back and forth and I was flying. It was pretty cool and despite still being cold I wasn't nearly as scared or mad

As I approached Point Grey (after about 4 hours) the conditions moderated a bit and I was able to pee!! and actually eat something.
Came into English bay and the conditions there, which would normally have had me white knuckling it in my dinghy, seemed calm and pleasant. When I got home (after motoring under two bridges in Burrard inlet I actually kissed the earth when i got off the dock. Didn't dampen my enthusiasm but I wouldn't knowingly head into those conditions again as it wasn't pleasant and I'm somebody who enjoys a good vigorous sail! It was arduous, cold, wet and nerve-wracking!


----------



## ScottUK

smackdaddy said:


> Another sloop in a storm? With a rolling furler.


I think the 'money' shot was the cut showing the headsail from atop the forestay. The sail shape you see is what you would want on a broad reach rather than beating to windward as they are doing.

I don't view the sailing conditions as 'extreme'. Yes it is sporty but I do not really see much green water.


----------



## smackdaddy

Windkiller said:


> Weeell
> My BFS story isn't that mighty and it was really a motor sail, or the scariest bit was.
> I'm mostly a dinghy sailor but I currently have a Danica 16 (little full keel double ender)
> For my BFS I was crossing Georgia straight solo.....


Oh hell yeah!!


----------



## smackdaddy

ScottUK said:


> I think the 'money' shot was the cut showing the headsail from atop the forestay. The sail shape you see is what you would want on a broad reach rather than beating to windward as they are doing.
> 
> I don't view the sailing conditions as 'extreme'. Yes it is sporty but I do not really see much green water.


I think I saw somewhere that he reported 50 knots. Looks close to that in the vid. And I agree on the sail shape. To me he had a bit too much out for the conditions, and I assume he didn't have the sea room to run off. Pretty lousy shape, but that boat was definitely eating it up...and so was he.


----------



## ScottUK

smackdaddy said:


> I think I saw somewhere that he reported 50 knots. Looks close to that in the vid. And I agree on the sail shape. To me he had a bit too much out for the conditions, and I assume he didn't have the sea room to run off. Pretty lousy shape, but that boat was definitely eating it up...and so was he.


Don't think rolling more in would do anything for sail shape which is, to me, the biggest draw back of a furler. It is a consideration for me as I have furler rigged mast headed sloop too.


----------



## jackdale

Windkiller said:


> Weeell
> My BFS story isn't that mighty and it was really a motor sail, or the scariest bit was.
> I'm mostly a dinghy sailor but I currently have a Danica 16 (little full keel double ender)
> For my BFS I was crossing Georgia straight solo sailing my friend's home built wooden 20 ft George Holme's Eel inspired Canoe Yawl, Pilgrim's Wake for the first time.
> I let myself be convinced by those 'more experienced' that sleeping in and riding the tide through Porlier pass(where the current can get up to 8 knots) into the strait where it was forecast to blow 10-15knots would be a good idea( I had planned to hit the pass at slack, take it easy in the lighter late morning breezes)


Anyone with any "experience" of Porlier Pass and Georgia Strait should have known better. A flood current and NE winds are going to result in steep waves.

Your plan was much, much better.


----------



## Windkiller

I couldn't agree more! I had even researched it all ahead of time and planned it out.
I was planning on getting up at 7 and heading out by 8:30 and hitting the pass right at slack, It was my first time solo in that boat and my first time crossing the Straight, prudence seemed to be sensible. One doesn't &^%*^& with Nature!
It was the boat's owner and the fellow we were staying with (largely a power boater I believe), both with way more experienced than I on the water, who said that I shouldn't worry about it, that I would "fly back to Vancouver" with the flood and the wind!!
Maybe they were talking literally??!! I did feel like I was airborne a couple times.
Anyway , i generally try to trust my own instincts and listen to advice if it seems sensible. I like a good adventurous sail, seeing the boat I'm in rushing through the elements, Exciting stuff. But I'm not the type to jump out of perfectly good airplanes or knowingly seek perilous situations. Things can go awfully wrong, awfully quickly


----------



## smackdaddy

ScottUK said:


> Don't think rolling more in would do anything for sail shape which is, to me, the biggest draw back of a furler. It is a consideration for me as I have furler rigged mast headed sloop too.


I agree. But at 50+ knots, I don't think it's really about sail shape anymore - per se. It's more just about stability and directional assistance - and the _amount_ of sail. Sure, ideally you want to blade ANY sail out as much as you can in those conditions (and the one in the video has way too much belly in my opinion - and you can see the results in the one knockdown) - but are you really wanting to shape a foil in wind like that?

To me the video shows that it would be much better if he had a bit less sail out and was heading downwind (like in the other video I posted of the sloop in the F10/11 conditions that was doing much better than this boat). He's definitely pushing the boat in this vid. Even so, it's doing pretty well.


----------



## smackdaddy

Windkiller said:


> Anyway , i generally try to trust my own instincts and listen to advice if it seems sensible. I like a good adventurous sail, seeing the boat I'm in rushing through the elements, Exciting stuff. But I'm not the type to jump out of perfectly good airplanes or knowingly seek perilous situations. Things can go awfully wrong, awfully quickly


Bingo. The key is to deal with the crap that you find yourself in - for whatever reason - and get home safely. That's BFS in my book.


----------



## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> I agree. But at 50+ knots, I don't think it's really about sail shape anymore - per se. It's more just about stability and directional assistance - and the _amount_ of sail...


Ummm... No. Shape counts exponentially more at high winds. Increased draft and camber increase drag and power which causes you to heel more.

You want a flat blade that develops lift and forward motion in gusts not just drah and power which will knock you down.

With poor shape you'll have to reduce sail because of heel and you'll be under driven and more at risk of knockdown.

BTDT with the partially rolled furler in a blow. Slow going with lots of heel means you're in it longer and its less comfortable.

Medsailor

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


----------



## smackdaddy

I understand that Med. And that's what I said - that you want blade, not belly in high-wind conditions. But again, we're talking 50+ knots (F10/11) - at least we were in another related thread (the production boat praise thread). In that case, _reducing_ sail (not just blading it) is a very, very good option....as is running off...and towing a drogue. Read Bob's recent post from the Jefe. All sail comes down in an F10/11 blow and he's running bare poles - at 9-14 knots. The problem is, _he's on the foredeck in the Southern Ocean pulling down that staysail in 60+ knots with towering green water coming over the decks_. Not a place I would want to be.

So, we're talking this fine line between _sailing_ in heavy winds, and handling a storm. The window of optimizing sail shape with a storm staysail in big wind is pretty small in my book (and that of Hal Roth). It's certainly not enough to warrant turning a sloop into a cutter as was being advised in the other thread. Just my opinion.


----------



## ScottUK

smackdaddy said:


> I agree. But at 50+ knots, I don't think it's really about sail shape anymore - per se. It's more just about stability and directional assistance - and the _amount_ of sail. Sure, ideally you want to blade ANY sail out as much as you can in those conditions (and the one in the video has way too much belly in my opinion - and you can see the results in the one knockdown) - but are you really wanting to shape a foil in wind like that?
> 
> To me the video shows that it would be much better if he had a bit less sail out and was heading downwind (like in the other video I posted of the sloop in the F10/11 conditions that was doing much better than this boat). He's definitely pushing the boat in this vid. Even so, it's doing pretty well.


I agree it is more about stability and and directional control and I think a better sail configuration would be greatly improve that. I have beat into similar conditions a few times (with non-furling headsails) with a smaller headsail and reefed main with no issues of stability and directional control and I would think a more balanced helm they likely would have had. Makes me wonder why they did not raise the mainsail and how it would have impacted the interrelationship with the furled headsail and on helm control.

An interesting aside, during one of those times of similar conditions we were doing an offshore race shorthanded (to get to a start point and to meet the rest of our crew for another offshore race) and were in last place. We had another boat in front of us within our sights, We were losing ground on them and I started to pinch a bit. Though the boat dropped in speed 1-1.5Kts we were able to point higher and sail flatter and passed them. When our watch was over the other watch sailed for speed and was overtaken by the boat we had passed. When we got back on I steered as I did previously and we passed them again and eventually beat them over the line. Second to last but at least we beat one boat. I think it shows how a boat that is even somewhat overpowered can really effect VMG. I think this could be applicable to a poorly shaped furling headsail with a tendency to be overpowered at times.

Having viewed the video 3 times I have not seen the knockdown you had mentioned.


----------



## smackdaddy

Yeah - "knockdown" is definitely an overstatement. At about 2:48 he gets hit by a good gust that lays him over pretty good and puts the rail in the water. He turns the camera to himself to show his reaction. It was another reason I think he just has too much sail out for the conditions (if you're just sailing, not racing) - and is on a harsh point of sail (not running off).

Of course, it looks to me like he intentionally went out in the stink to do some "practicing". And he seemed to do pretty well. So I've got to give him some cred. Few people are willing to do that. It's funny, but from the cockpit shots the headsail looks to have a much better shape than in the top-down shots.

But to your question about the main, judging by the boat's reaction to that big gust, if you added even a triple-reefed main to that headsail on that point of sail, you'd be way over-canvassed I think. I sailed in 40-45 with just a reefed main on my Catalina 27 (no headsail). We were on a beam reach and it was a little scary. Lots of shuddering with the rig.

Here is the other video I was talking about. This guy is in much rougher conditions with the same general sail configuration, but is much more comfortable and the boat far less stressed. The conditions are touching F11:


----------



## ScottUK

smackdaddy said:


> Yeah - "knockdown" is definitely an overstatement. At about 2:48 he gets hit by a good gust that lays him over pretty good and puts the rail in the water. He turns the camera to himself to show his reaction. It was another reason I think he just has too much sail out for the conditions (if you're just sailing, not racing) - and is on a harsh point of sail (not running off).
> 
> Of course, it looks to me like he intentionally went out in the stink to do some "practicing". And he seemed to do pretty well. So I've got to give him some cred. Few people are willing to do that. It's funny, but from the cockpit shots the headsail looks to have a much better shape than in the top-down shots.
> 
> But to your question about the main, judging by the boat's reaction to that big gust, if you added even a triple-reefed main to that headsail on that point of sail, you'd be way over-canvassed I think. I sailed in 40-45 with just a reefed main on my Catalina 27 (no headsail). We were on a beam reach and it was a little scary. Lots of shuddering with the rig.
> 
> Here is the other video I was talking about. This guy is in much rougher conditions with the same general sail configuration, but is much more comfortable and the boat far less stressed. The conditions are touching F11:


It would appear to me also that the sailors in the first video did go out to test themselves. From the footage it appears they might have gotten in the heavier seas for a wee while before going to a more sheltered area where most of the video was shot.

When beating into those types of conditions and beating I think having the main out can be good so the boat can be driven up. Hard to do with just the headsail. I think it can be dangerous to have the main up when running but my previous discussion was concerning sailing to windward.

The video just posted is more like the sea state I remember being in when sailing in 50+ kts. As I said I have beaten into it but typically we usually run off if we can. Another one of the times beating into those conditions for 6 hours before turning and running my fingers and toes were tingling for 3 months after the race. It was about 3 degrees out on the water so it was a typical Scottish summer day.


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## smackdaddy

Beating into a "Scottish summer day" for 6 hours - you definitely have my respect Scott! That sounds brutal!

As you say, I'd much rather run.


----------



## Bleemus

ScottUK said:


> It would appear to me also that the sailors in the first video did go out to test themselves. From the footage it appears they might have gotten in the heavier seas for a wee while before going to a more sheltered area where most of the video was shot.
> 
> When beating into those types of conditions and beating I think having the main out can be good so the boat can be driven up. Hard to do with just the headsail. I think it can be dangerous to have the main up when running but my previous discussion was concerning sailing to windward.
> 
> The video just posted is more like the sea state I remember being in when sailing in 50+ kts. As I said I have beaten into it but typically we usually run off if we can. Another one of the times beating into those conditions for 6 hours before turning and running my fingers and toes were tingling for 3 months after the race. It was about 3 degrees out on the water so it was a typical Scottish summer day.


You won't make any appreciable progress beating upwind under jib alone.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Shockwave

Bleems, you think it's actually making any upwind VMG in 50 knots with that sail plan?


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## Bleemus

I only saw the video of the guy reaching with jib only. Making Vmg in 50 knots with storm jib and triple reef might be one or two knots on a 40 footer with good sailors and good helmsman. An inexperienced cruising couple would be going backwards for sure. With only a jib it would be a negative number no matter who is sailing. Boat totally unbalanced and making lots of leeway. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ScottUK

smackdaddy said:


> That sounds brutal!


It certainly was and being the bowman I was in peril of drowning while on the rail. The rear guard also got 'smacked' a couple of times when green water from a breaking waves were caught by the reefed main and funneled into the cockpit. When we turned and ran we got the boat, a 34 foot mono, up to 14.9kts. I fondly remember it as 'the beat from hell'.


----------



## ScottUK

Bleemus said:


> You won't make any appreciable progress beating upwind under jib alone.


That is my belief too.


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## Panope

Bleemus said:


> You won't make any appreciable progress beating upwind under jib alone.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk





ScottUK said:


> That is my belief too.


I do not have enough experience to make a credible rebuttal to the above statement. However, I was able to make a 90 degree tacks (course over ground, GPS verified) under an itsy bitsy, storm jib.

My boat features a shallow draft, full keel and a pilot house. Would not a boat with less windage and a higher aspect ratio keel (just about every other sailboat in the world) be able to make *some* VMG to weather?

Steve

Three points of sail depicted: close reach, beam reach, broad reach.


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## ScottUK

Panope said:


> Would not a boat with less windage and a higher aspect ratio keel (just about every other sailboat in the world) be able to make *some* VMG


I would say yes but in the conditions we are talking about where you do not get the necessary drive without the main you are going to be closer to being beam on to the waves and if the wave breaks at the right moment it can be very dangerous.


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## smackdaddy

SVAuspicious said:


> Mid-boom sheeting. Chart plotter at the helm instead of under the dodger. NO DODGER. We won't even talk about racing with a bimini up.
> 
> Fail.


Heh-heh. I forgot all about this. Doucheyness in the olden days.

Click the arrow beside Ausp's name to see the context. We dominated the race in a Pearson 365 ketch, even against 65' racing boats, and this guy is talking about form?

Go figure.


----------



## Barquito

This is a BFS entry _in abstentia_ for the guys with the hairy sacs who took this ice boat to 101 mph on Lake Winnebago in 1967. This boat was built in 1947, and was recently bought by our local ice boat club.






Yes, that is a winch in the last one.


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## smackdaddy

Oh hell yeah!!










101 mph? To hairy sacks!


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## ccriders

Ice boats give BFS a whole new meaning. Maybe even a new category - BIBFS ? Or BFIBS? BFBS (Big Freaking Bone Shakers)?
But we won't talk about the crashes, okay?


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## smackdaddy

Here's a bit of a spanker...


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## Bleemus

smackdaddy said:


> Here's a bit of a spanker...


Motorsailing upwind in 25 knots. Pretty boring.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## smackdaddy

I would love to see that HR after several days of doing that.


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## MedSailor

smackdaddy said:


> I would love to see that HR after several days of doing that.


It'd be destroyed! Keel bolts loose, bulkheads adrift, rig slack. An AMVER rescue in the making for sure!

Medsailor

P.S. Just for clarification purposes, "HR" in this instance is short for "Hunter" right?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


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## smackdaddy

A Buizen 48 in 60 knots...






That's a tough boat.


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## smackdaddy

This is great...

I follow this very cool Swedish couple who have an outstanding channel on Youtube - RAN Sailing:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLYd5EnTTwUKhouIkHoqzMw

Their latest episode had them landing in Cascais. Anybody recognize the boat in the background.










What an old shoe!!! Heh-heh.


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## CarbonSink62

*Last Year's Best Sail*

Link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h9f7p8x4r76hps9/FB_IMG_1438604992549.jpg?dl=0

Image:










I was going through the log to plan this year's trip:

Let me set the stage - this is Day 6 of Cruisapalooza '15, our annual tour of Casco Bay and Points North. We've already seen Portland and Boothbay and we just spent the night in Harpswell. Lime Rickey is my brother's '75 Bristol 32; my wife and I are on Zen Again, our '78 Bristol 29.9 with 3 guests.

Log entry follows:

"Underway from Dolphin Marina at 0800 (after they delivered coffee & muffins!); We followed Lime Rickey on a tour of northern Casco Bay: out of Potts Harbor the way we came in and then north between Basin Point and Whaleboat Island; through Middle Bay and the strait between Upper Goose and Birch Islands. The crew spent much time on the foredeck dangling their feet in the water (many of them in PFD's) while the scenery scrolled by. The winds had been building all morning; just north of Goose Island we raised our sails and turned south.

We had a fantastic sail! Yowzah!

We tacked back and forth down the strait with the Goose Islands to port and Sisters, Williams & Bustin Islands to starboard; with each tack there was more room and Lime Rickey got closer [I had to roll up my bimini before raising sail and started out behind; not that we're racing - 'cuz we're not.]. When we got as far south as Broad Sound, the winds had really built and we rolled up the head sail. Both boats headed toward Jewell Island; Lime Rickey got in first and declared it too windy and crowded (he had a small emergency!) so we continued on to DiMillo's; good thing too, we didn't get in until 1500 or so, a stop at Cocktail Cove would have made us much later.

Another top ten day on the water!

Final dinner at Jay's Oyster Bar." [we headed home the next morning]

We had my wife's cousin on board; her husband really wants a cruising sailboat. I'm afraid that the day did not give her any arguments to bring against the idea. She had a great time!

We failed to properly stow for sea and the cooler upended itself. Always a lesson hidden in every day on the water, but I thought I had learned that one.


----------



## smackdaddy

Now THIS was a very fun day...










What an honor to hang out with these wonderful people who DEFINITELY know about Big Freakin' Sails! Drake and Mo from _Paragon_.

The best part was that _Dawn Treader_ is finally back together and ready to go! We'd just finished up everything the night before they came out. More on that soon!

Drake and Mo are definitely...


----------



## RTB

smackdaddy said:


> The best part was that _Dawn Treader_ is finally back together and ready to go! We'd just finished up everything the night before Drake and Mo came out. More on that soon!


It's good to hear you have the boat back together. Now, if you get moving, you can be in Florida for peak hurricane/thunderstorm season......

Ralph


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## smackdaddy

RTB said:


> It's good to hear you have the boat back together. Now, if you get moving, you can be in Florida for peak hurricane/thunderstorm season......
> 
> Ralph


Heh. Thanks for the reminder. At least we missed one TS so far!


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## tschmidty

EDIT: Anyone able to tell me the right way to embed these videos?

So my meager contribution. I have an earlier one in this thread from my 17 foot boat but this is on my 23 foot boat. We had a great beam reach sail from Oriental, NC to Ocracoke and enjoyed some great days out there. Unfortunately, typical winds coming back are dead on the nose from Oriental. So considering it is 40nm across open water with zero spots to bail out, you are either in a 20 hour day tacking into the wind or you motor it. So the first video is our great sail out, averaged 5 knots in a 23 foot boat on a beautiful beam reach in 15-17 mph winds.

You Tube





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You Tube





You Tube















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The second is the much less fun pounding directly into the steep chop on Pamlico for 9 hours. And yes I know these are only 2-3 foot waves, but they are like 8 feet apart and steep. Nothing dangerous just tiring.

You Tube





You Tube








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You Tube





You Tube















[/URL]


----------



## Solar54

Always love the sail out Ocracoke. I have seen everything from glassy calm with no wind to 30 knots with huge chop.
Glad you had fun.


----------



## smackdaddy

Very nice ts! Nothing better than multi-envy! Heh.


----------



## RTB

smackdaddy said:


> Heh. Thanks for the reminder. At least we missed one TS so far!


Colin came close, but it never got too bad here at Brunswick Landing Marina in Georgia. We did see 45 knots on the beam for about 30 seconds when a squall hit here. I don't think some on the west coast of Florida had such an easy time though.

Ralph


----------



## Guyfromthenorth

So now that things have settled down, I'm back home still feeling the floor move under me, I thought I'd do a break down of how last Saturday unfolded since Smack confirmed this as a BFS moment in my life on the water.

I have less than 1 full season of sailing in for reference (although I've spent the entire winter winter reading Kretschmer's books). I sail a Tanzer 7.5 circa 1978, masthead sloop rig, double reef main and 155% furling genoa, 10hp Honda outboard. My crew that day was my brother (on a boat once before) and my best friend (on my boat 2x before). This was sailing on Lake Huron.

We woke up that morning with a forecast showing West winds at about 10kt with some gusting to 15kt. We figured it would be a great day to sail with the wind at our backs to hit some islands to the East of where we anchored the night before. We had parked on the lee side of a small island to cook breakfast as the storm (fast moving cold front with a line of Tstorms) the night before switched from a SE to a W wind and it would be smoother to cook breakfast on. After sticking around the rock beach by the lighthouse for an hour or two we set off for the East island group.

On the way to the islands we had very little to no wind and the water was like glass. No wind had materialized as forecast whatsoever which we discussed at length. We trolled along between 2 and 4kts on what little wind we had and even cooked lunch underway, full sails out. We did make it to the islands we aimed for. The beaches were shallow shoals and we thought it would be more hassle than anything to anchor at. Also the forecast for TOMORROW was showing 15kt NW winds gusting 30kt (directly from the direction we had to go to return home ). This made us worry we wouldn't have people back on time for work on Monday so we thought to sail most of the way home and camp at an island about 6nm from my slip and then finish up in the AM.

Having very little wind it was near impossible to beat NW so we dropped the motor and cruised towards the island at a brisk 5.5kts. About 2nm from the planned anchorage the motor choked, sputtered, and shut off. We drifted to a near stop as I began troubleshooting what had happened. Fuel was getting to the carbs but pouring out of the intake, yet no fuel was getting INTO the engine (plugs were bone dry). I fiddled with it for 30mins or so and could not resolve the issue. This was a bit frustrating as I had changed out the entire fuel system, filters, and fluids this spring. At this point, still under blue sky, the wind began to pick up and ripple the water, roughly out of the West. We thought this was perfect and hoisted the main and unfurled the headsail in an effort to tack home to the bay my marina is in. The plan was to sail into the bay, ditch off the shipping route and sink an anchor in so we could either fix the motor or call for help or tow.

Within about 30mins of the "wind arriving lightly" it was blowing so hard the boat was on a 30deg heel and beating to weather at 6kts. The waves very quickly picked up from "glass top" to 4 and 5ft thumpers. I shrunk the headsail as it was pulling dangerously hard on the rigging and made the call to douse the main sail before it was damaged. Shortly after dropping the mainsail the winds grew much heavier and the boat again was leaning hard over while I fought each wave trying to keep a steady course. I already knew based on my weather experience this would not be a 1 or 2 hour event, this will go on for a long time and get worse. The land stations confirmed it was blowing 35kts and gusting 40kt+, I know it was blowing harder out on the open water where I was but I'll just quote the "known" weather not my guesses.

With no engine back up we now felt like an airplane in a storm with no landing gear. The first plan was to beat to the island we were originally planning for and attempt to hide on the lee side of it and pray for a shallow enough spot to anchor (we were in over 100ft of water at this point). We tried so hard to climb to that island but failed and after an hour or so we gave up and had to fall off. The wind was driving so hard at this point waves had grown into the 6ft+ range and stuff inside the galley was beginning to dump off it's shelves. After a gust violently pulled us over and forced the boat to tack (yep, no choice in that one!) I spun the rudder and ran off the wind to catch our breath. We surfed big waves that were now starting to crest and white cap all around us while the boat screamed over 7+kts down wave faces and lurched with each gust, not bad sine my hullspeed is only 6.3kt without wave assistance.

Realizing this storm would blow us all the way to the east coast, and with no motor to "land" with we picked the next closest island which was a very small island, the one we had woken up on that morning. It may have also been about this point my brother hit the "help" button on the SPOT (which was a message we had pre-arrange to say we were experiencing an issue or may be late but don't call 911 yet). The smaller island was not by any stretch ideal, it was almost due North of us at this point and had big rocky shoals around it's edges and the only anchor spot was like hitting a bulleye on a dartboard from 100yds with no motor and heavy weather to content with. It was the only choice so we shrunk the headsail down to, I am not joking, less than the size of a table cloth and beat hard to weather. Breezy was smoking 5.5kts in the face of massive waves and wind with that smidge of sail out. The waves got bigger, the wind howled harder. It blew my VHF antenna off it's connector to give you an idea. I tried standing at one point and was almost blown right over in the cockpit. My crew was doing an outstanding job managing the sheets. Each tack was a terrifying event timed between sets of waves, one of the gusts grabbed the headsail so hard I felt the boat shutter under me, and even with 4 wraps on the winch it took two of us to sheet the headsail sliver back in.

The winds continued to pick up, gusts lasted even longer, and the direction was seemlingly erratic, sometimes NW hard blasts then almost down to SW. The tops of the white caps were blowing off in white streaks just like snowbanks in a whiteoutsnow squall. So bad that more than a few times I lost sight of the island we were shooting for. Multiple waves slammed Breezy, most averaging 9ft to 12ft according to data from the buoys and spray was hitting us so hard it stung your skin. The rudder felt like 50lbs of weight just to keep Breezy at a 45 angle to those waves so we wouldn't be broad sided. I know the sail style wasn't balanced but we were committed at this point. This went on for hours, literally, somewhere around 6-7hrs, I will confirm with GPS logs. Some of the waves at this point were getting monstrous and stacking up 3 at a time, none of them were nice long slopes they were all sharp with little break in between.

There was one set of 3 that seriously made me question if the boat would hold together. It was so far over the average we were seeing, I would hate to "guess" how big they were, I'm sure my two crew can throw their estimates. The first one was a wall of black water, I nosed hard over to catch it at 45deg and Breezy climbed so high I couldn't see water or anything anymore, just sky. The front 3rd of the boat was out of the water and as soon as we peaked it slammed down and we surfed down it's back, I'm sure I felt my seat flex a bit under the backstay tension from the "hang time". Immediately we went up the 2nd in the set and Breezy slid to port side slightly, this 2nd wave was bigger. I was busy watching the bow as we climbed this one at a much worse angle. We heeled over to the max on my inclinometer (45deg) and I heard a gurgling sound right beside my head. I looked over and there was over 3ft of black water above the combing right beside me beginning to break. It dumped into the cockpit over my head solidly and I had to hold my breath. It wasn't "spray" like dozens before, it literally filled us and for a second I swear I was swimming. Some of the water kept right on going over the low side of the rail and the rest poured out of the cockpit drains, everyone was still accounted for. We surfed down the backside of that one and Breezy slammed her starboard shoulder right into the ditch of the next wave. The whole boat shuttered and we skidded through it. Luckily it had already begun breaking when we climbed it so less "volume" of water got in and more "hard spray" made it. That one actually hit my headsail on the way by and shuddered the mast harder than the wind.

Those waves more than anything will stick with my memory for sure. We were still somewhere around 2 miles from our target and I felt like my arms wanted to fall off, as did my crew I'm sure. We beat, smashed, and flogged to weather closing that gap, Breezy averaging 5kts even with the waves pounding us back trying to force us East. The last 0.3nm to safety was the worst. We had tacked dozens of times just to get a "window" to shoot for and it felt like we would never make it. Those last 0.3nm pounded us with the worst of all the winds, it must have been a funnel between the two islands or something. At this point all waves were white caps and all were "spindrifting" limiting visibility to almost nothing. My brother ran the chartplotter to check our course with the shoals and my friend was adjusting the sheets with me as the gusts fluctuated and became very unpredictable. I thought we finally had the "window" to shoot for after gauging the lee way we were losing. One final tack happened and we shot straight for the rock shoal at the south end of the island planning to fall off with the speed we would build, sling shot around the lee side and pitch the anchor on the way by. I literally felt like this was some failed apollo mission trying to slingshot around the moon. All while we were sailing this event I would interrupt the quiet chaos (everyone was doing their jobs and so focused few words were said). I began going over scenerios with everyone so we had a plan. "If we lose the sail here's what we will do..." "If the mast comes down here's what to watch for what we will do..." "If we miss our anchor depth and lose the island here's what we will do..." "DO NOT GET OFF THE BOAT FOR ANY REASON".

At this point we still weren't even at the "scary" part of anchoring in a gale under sail with no motor! We fired in from the howling wind around the lee side of the island, dodged the rock shoal, and immediately got caught in eddying wind currents I hadn't predicted. The wind was "less" but was still storm like, the waves were "less" but were still 5ft white caps, and we had 75 to 100ft of depth with the sounder showing boulders. We tried tacking back and forth to try and get closer to shore but just couldn't do it. The winds were shifting wildly with a wrap around effect from the island and tacking became very unpredictable. Sometimes while under a hard heel and racing forward to the backside the wind would snap over and backwind the sail spinning us around the opposite way. It felt like trying to swim up a waterfall here. We finally caught one just right and got as close as I thought we could and we dumped the entire anchor rode and the big plow in 75ft of water with a hard bottom on the sonar. The winds facepushed (yes I'll use that term literally) us backwards off the island and I am not kidding I prayed the anchor would catch. If it did not we would blow back out into 100ft+ deep water and our next island was miles away, and unknown to me, in failing daylight. Energy was nearly all spent at this point. The anchor caught hard on what I assume was a boulder and I felt the bow shudder as the boat stopped and lined up with the waves.

At this point we were anchored in a "semi-sheltered" spot on the lee of the island. 5ft waves still rolling under us and winds whipping us around on the anchor. I marked our spot on the GPS to watch for anchor drag and flew back to the transom to start taking the old Honda 10hp apart hoping to find a fix. I spent some time taking the carb apart and trying to figure out what could possibly block fuel from getting into the cylinders, but allow it to pour from the intake. I felt the boat free drift for a minute then jam to a stop again. I am assuming we had rolled a boulder or two and dragged until we caught another, not surprising in the conditions, the GPS mark was now 50ft away to confirm this. I knew we couldn't stay here for the night which made the motor all the more important, there was just no way I could thread us into the MUCH smaller gravel anchorage just north of us without the motor, it was too steep of a drop off and we wouldn't be able to sail into that spot with the wind the way it was.

I figured maybe the float was jammed and rather than take it apart I thought I'd reset it with fuel. I drained the bowls completely, rapped it hard with my leatherman, closed the drain and pressurized it with the ball. No fuel sprayed out! I pulled the cord and it immediately came back to life, which was great because the anchor was dragging again (lol). My crew both climbed up front and began pulling in the, now, free-dragging anchor while I controlled our stern with the motor so we didn't wrap the rode around the keel or rudder. We got the plow back up and I blasted us over to the gravel beach where we found nearly dead calm water and 30ft of depth to anchor in. To the North and to the South of our "spot" was massive white caps screaming by, on the island itself trees were bending over and flogging heavily in the wind, but our spot was the perfect "shadow" to hide in right beside the lighthouse.

We all changed into dry clothes, talked about how rediculous that was, and made some of the best tasting sandwhiches ever, the kind that you don't even remember what you made them with, but because you were alive they were the best ever.

Lessons of that day: 
-Don't trust all forecasts. 
-Always have a plan, be ready to fight for your life if the weather turns. 
-Take care of your boat so she will take care of you! Every single piece I repaired or upgraded this spring was all tested on Saturday. The fact that Breezy still has 2 sails and a mast is proof of that. I found less than 1in of water in the bilge even.


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## zedboy

Guy: the Franco-Ontarians have a pithy old French-language saying that I think is appropriate here - "HOLY GUACAMOLE BATMAN!!"


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## flyingwelshman

Exhilarating. Well told.

Sent from my M532 using Tapatalk


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## nhsail

2004, leaving Halifax NS to go down east to St. Peters: 
We rode out a gale the day before up in the Northwest Arm at RNSYS, (great place to be in any weather) and were sailing "Lioness" a Bermuda 40, in good shape. 

Forecast was 2 meter seas and winds 15 kts from the SE-South-SW so we expected a nice onshore beam reach to scream up the coast
Reality was 2 meter seas from the SE, S, & SW occasionally giving a 6 meter pyramid. 

The sensation of testicular retraction while observing water to weather in the vicinity of the spreader is not one I will soon forget, I may have pissed my foulies then or perhaps it was later due to no relief on the helm. 

After the first heave and roll/yaw wiggle, terror gives way to fear, after a few of them fear gives way to resignation that its going to be a darn long day. Waves abated to only one set from the SW, the pilot was able to keep up and I had spare jeans to change into.


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## smackdaddy

At anchor on day 2 of our run to FL. Will Tweet updates to @BigFreakinSails then blog later. 

Ran aground today! Oh yeah!


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## RTB

smackdaddy said:


> At anchor on day 2 of our run to FL. Will Tweet updates to @BigFreakinSails then blog later.
> 
> Ran aground today! Oh yeah!


Hmm. The barge traffic keeps the ICW close to 10' deep. Look at shorelines. Usually, one will be steep, the other flatter (shallower). Also, it will be deeper on the outside of a turn in most cases. Just my observations, and worth maybe what you paid me for this info....

The tides are running higher and lower. Almost new moon (the 4th). I don't remember it being a big deal in that area though.

Carry on. Looking forward to your updates. Fair winds kids!

Ralph


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## RTB

smackdaddy said:


> At anchor on day 2 of our run to FL. Will Tweet updates to @BigFreakinSails then blog later.


No updates....hope the guys are just having too much fun to bother. Never mind. Found his tweets. Looks like they are in Houma, La.

Ralph


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## smackdaddy

We're all good. We're at Seabrook Marina in New Orleans. Resting this morning, then heading to the French Quarter later this afternoon for dinner at Brennan's.

Man, the bridges and locks at NO are a pain in the ass. I'll do a write up on that today or tomorrow. I'll also keep the Tweets going.

This is freakin' fun!!!


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## Lazerbrains

You are sailing Texas to Florida along a coastal route? This is considered a "Big Freakin Sail"???? I'm confused.....


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## smackdaddy

Lazerbrains said:


> You are sailing Texas to Florida along a coastal route? This is considered a "Big Freakin Sail"???? I'm confused.....


It's my thread. I can post what I want.

As for your confusion, go back and read the first post.


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## Lazerbrains

smackdaddy said:


> It's my thread. I can post what I want.
> 
> As for your confusion, go back and read the first post.


Relax dude - just asking a question about your route. Not everyone breathlessly keeps track of your every move.


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## smackdaddy

Lazerbrains said:


> Relax dude - just asking a question about your route. Not everyone breathlessly keeps track of your every move.


You're right - there are 2 or 3 that don't keep up..well breathlessly anyway. And I'm super relaxed. I'm in the Big Easy with my boys for crying out loud. What could be more relaxing than that?

As for the route - ICW from Texas to here (not a huge fan of that - but had to do it). Inside the barrier islands from here to Pensacola. Then offshore to Tampa. Then hopping down to the Keys.

And, yes, without question it is a Big Freakin' Sail - for us. I'll definitely give us the coveted BFS Stamp of Approval at the end of this leg.


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## RTB

You've got the tough part behind you now. Enjoy Mississippi Sound and Mobile Bay. Watch your weather. I'm sure you know those bays can get nasty, especially with severe pop up thunderstorms.

If you stay inside to Pensacola, be careful coming out that inlet. I've burried the bow there coming out with an outgoing tide, so be sure to check your tide tables/winds and plan accordingly (no current against significant wind). I've always had a tough time between Pensacola and Port St. Joe. The Destin inlet deserves respect too. Panama City isn't too bad, if you need to use either.
Port St.Joe is a nice stop, and have a buddy there. Let me know if you plan to stop there.

I don't know your plans, but try to avoid a real BFS between Apalachicola and Tampa. This time of year, you may be the only boat out there. We rarely see another boat on that crossing. If you need to pull in early, the inlet at Clearwater Beach is a good one.

Hey! Glad you kids are on your way at last. This has been a long time coming... I guess the new engine is doing a good job? Enjoy New Orleans!!!

Please say Hi to your boys from me and my wife. 

Ralph


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## sailjumanji

We just did Grand Isle to Galveston jetty sailing in 40 hours - I think about 300 miles. Some of it double reefed! Returning from Bahamas to Texas. Did Grand Isle past Point Fouchon in the daylight hours, then beyond that the platform count drops off. But still some unlit and uncharted, so you have to pay attention to radar. I think we're always about five miles from coast.

Prior hope was fort Myers to grand isle and we motored over glassy water for five days! Except for the afternoon periods of rain squalls.

Last October, did the kemah to orange beach section. ICW thru NO same as you. Then drop down to mississippi sound. Some great legs there. First overnight was Pensacola to port St Joe. Loved that place. Then overnight to Clearwater. Took a taxi to tarpon springs for the sponge docks. After that, day hops. Prior to this trip, our longest was two weeks from kemah to port aransas and back. This time all the way to Georgetown and back, about three months. Earned our BFS, I guess. Ready for a shore break. We still have a house. Boat is floating in the backyard! Good luck to you and fair weather.


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## smackdaddy

sailjumanji said:


> We just did Grand Isle to Galveston jetty sailing in 40 hours - I think about 300 miles. Some of it double reefed! Returning from Bahamas to Texas. Did Grand Isle past Point Fouchon in the daylight hours, then beyond that the platform count drops off. But still some unlit and uncharted, so you have to pay attention to radar. I think we're always about five miles from coast.
> 
> Prior hope was fort Myers to grand isle and we motored over glassy water for five days! Except for the afternoon periods of rain squalls.
> 
> Last October, did the kemah to orange beach section. ICW thru NO same as you. Then drop down to mississippi sound. Some great legs there. First overnight was Pensacola to port St Joe. Loved that place. Then overnight to Clearwater. Took a taxi to tarpon springs for the sponge docks. After that, day hops. Prior to this trip, our longest was two weeks from kemah to port aransas and back. This time all the way to Georgetown and back, about three months. Earned our BFS, I guess. Ready for a shore break. We still have a house. Boat is floating in the backyard! Good luck to you and fair weather.


Hell yeah I'd say you earned the stamp!


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## sailjumanji

Thanks. Although I thought about it again and it was 300 miles in 44 hours. Not as good, but still moving.


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## RTB

Looks like the smack boys made it to Pensacola. Welcome to Florida!

Well done mateys.....

Ralph


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## smackdaddy

RTB said:


> Looks like the smack boys made it to Pensacola. Welcome to Florida!
> 
> Well done mateys.....
> 
> Ralph


Thanks Ralph! It's wonderful to be here!


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## MedSailor

50% young punk and 50% BFS = 100% NO BS JUST SAILING!


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## smackdaddy

^^^^^OH HELL YEAH!!!!


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## smackdaddy

Quick update: Autopilot crapped the bed about 2 hours out of Pensacola. We hand-steered to Panama City arriving at 0200. The boys were AWESOME the whole way! It was their first night-time offshore run and actual watches. And it was my first entry into a major inlet at night at the helm - as well as a first night-time anchoring. All went well. This is stupid fun.

We also saw a couple of water spouts a few miles away and caught a tuna! Now awaiting repairs at the Panama City Marina. Hopefully we'll be on the move again by Monday.


----------



## Scotty C-M

smackdaddy, Glad to hear that you are all off on your adventure. Where did you leave from, and how long ago? Do you have a particular destination? Good luck - or as my Dad used to say,…"Fair winds and following seas."


----------



## smackdaddy

Scotty C-M said:


> smackdaddy, Glad to hear that you are all off on your adventure. Where did you leave from, and how long ago? Do you have a particular destination? Good luck - or as my Dad used to say,?"Fair winds and following seas."


Thanks Scotty. We left Sabine Pass TX on 30 June via the ICW. We are headed to Fort Meyers and possibly Key West if time allows - which is looking doubtful for this season.


----------



## Slayer

Sounds like a great trip!!!


----------



## RTB

smackdaddy said:


> We are headed to Fort Meyers


Hopefully, that nasty algae bloom isn't around the Ft. Meyers area. Red tide has been pretty bad too, in the Tampa area from what I've seen posted elsewhere.

Ralph


----------



## smackdaddy

RTB said:


> Hopefully, that nasty algae bloom isn't around the Ft. Meyers area. Red tide has been pretty bad too, in the Tampa area from what I've seen posted elsewhere.
> 
> Ralph


I've been told by a couple of locals that the algea stuff isn't bad around Ft Myers. We'll see. We're enjoying the beaches along the way so it's all good.


----------



## smackdaddy

First time I've seen waterspouts at sea. Several BIG ones dropped off this bad-boy as it moved inland. Luckily we had driven behind it. These things pack a serious punch.


----------



## Skyeterrier

smackdaddy, did you have the option to stay offshore until daylight coming into Panama City? Were you coming from Pensacola via ICW or the Gulf? Sounds like a great trip.


----------



## smackdaddy

Skyeterrier said:


> smackdaddy, did you have the option to stay offshore until daylight coming into Panama City? Were you coming from Pensacola via ICW or the Gulf? Sounds like a great trip.


Hey Skye - yeah, we came here via the Gulf (couldn't clear a bridge in Pensacola). And we had the option to wait offshore when we arrived. But it was extremely calm so I wasn't worried about coming in the cut. It was more about being very careful to watch the chartplotter and the red/green markers. Sometimes it was hard to pick out the next set of markers due to the city lights in the background, but the charts were spot on, so I always found them.

We then eased very, very carefully into the Redfish Point anchorage marked by Waterway Guide here as #2:

Anchorage map of the Waterway Guide centered on 30.133696238439384, -85.66108703613281 | Waterway Explorer anchorage map

I watched the depth gauge very closely until we got to around 9', pretty close to shore. As usual, WG nailed the description.










It's a great anchorage. You'll see my review of it soon in WG. I gave it 5 stars, despite the jets which some might find annoying. We like jets.


----------



## RTB

Shell Island (#6) is also a good anchorage. I love listening to surf breaking while at anchor. I hope your AP plays nice on the crossing to Tampa. Best wishes to you and the smack boys!

Ralph


----------



## RTB

The smackboys left for Tampa yesterday. Should be there before now. I need to stick a Spot Tracker or In Reach on their boat.

Ralph


----------



## ad28

Winds are light and against 'em, it's summer. I'd give 'em two days from PC to Tampa.


----------



## RTB

ad28 said:


> Winds are light and against 'em, it's summer. I'd give 'em two days from PC to Tampa.


Maybe. Seems a little slow for that boat. From the photo on his blog, it looked like a nice beam reach leaving Panama City. Hey, I'm just a friend anxious to know all is well aboard. This was smack's longest offshore hop as captain, as far as I know.

They could be tied up at the dock asleep. Guess we'll know soon enough...

Ralph


----------



## ad28

Here's the offshore forecast for his area:

GMZ015-210245-
NE GULF N OF 25N E OF 87W-
1033 AM EDT WED JUL 20 2016

TODAY
E WINDS 10 TO 15 KT. SEAS 3 TO 4 FT. SCATTERED TSTMS.


Light winds, right on his nose... might want to give him a bit of time


----------



## smackdaddy

Safe and sound. Came in around 1230. WAY TOO MUCH MOTORING! But it was a great passage. We came in, tied up, got seafood (and beer for dad), then I hit the sack for some much needed sleep. Just now waking up and getting moving again at 1900. Lots of little problems I need to get on, but _Dawn Treader_ performed wonderfully - even beating into 8' short-period waves with water over the bow at times.

We are all very tired but happy.

More soon.

(Thanks for the concern Ralph. The boys are rockstars.)


----------



## smackdaddy

This is why we sail...


----------



## RTB

Just curious...are you leaving the boat where you are now? When will leg 2 start? I guess the kids being in school will limit when you'll be able to continue?

Ralph


----------



## smackdaddy

RTB said:


> Just curious...are you leaving the boat where you are now? When will leg 2 start? I guess the kids being in school will limit when you'll be able to continue?
> 
> Ralph


We'll run down to Ft. Meyers next week. We'll be storing the boat on the hard there and heading back to Austin. Then next year when the boys are out of school we'll move on down into the Bahamas for Leg 2.


----------



## smackdaddy

Made it into Ft. Meyers (Charlotte Harbor) this morning at 1030. Hit a couple of big squalls last night, but nothing too concerning. When we got here we had breakfast then I crashed. Just now waking up. Time to hit the pool.










Sad that the trip is coming to a close. We'll put Dawn Treader on the hard on Monday, then head back to Austin. It's been absolutely wonderful.


----------



## RTB

I just got an email from smack checking up on us after Matthew. We are in Brunswick, Georgia. A few of us stayed at the marina on our boats or in the cruiser's lounge during the hurricane. Maybe Steve should send me a BFS cap for that? For smack's friends here, he just released another of his nail-biting videos - 




Ralph


----------



## robert sailor

The quality of the video seemed quite good, he seems to have some talent in that area. I missed the "nail biting " part of it though Ralph, maybe you can help me.


----------



## RTB

robert sailor said:


> I missed the "nail biting " part of it though Ralph, maybe you can help me.


I couldn't find the tongue in cheek emoticon....:laugh Yeah, Steve is a pretty laid back guy in real life. I enjoy watching the boys in his videos. They are great kids, and very polite. Steve is a good father, and I'm sure his late wife was a wonderful mom. It shows in those boys. I'm just happy to see them pursuing life with such a good attitude after such a loss. Way to go Steve, Jesse, and Quinn!

Ralph


----------



## Scotty C-M

Wishing them all the best!!


----------



## RTB

Another release from smacky - November | 2016 | SMACKTALK!

Thanks for the BFS head gear, Steve. I'll get you some photos of Kris and I in our BFS Shop skullies. Nice and warm, and comfortable, for these chilly mornings in Georgia.

Ralph


----------



## smackdaddy

10 months in the hole. Man, it's dank down there. I need a shower and a smoke.

But back to what matters - who's been throwin' down some BFS?


----------



## HipToBeSquare

Welcome Back:smile This should make the summer more interestingirateraft:


----------



## mstern

HipToBeSquare said:


> Welcome Back:smile This should make the summer more interestingirateraft:


Indeed. Welcome back.

And as far as BFSs go: not me. I worked like a dog to get my boat into the water early this year, then then my outboard engine decided that it didn't like the idea of running. So now I'm sitting around, waiting for a call from the yard to tell me if it can be fixed.

Otherwise, I'd be out there, BFSing my a** off. Yeah.


----------



## oldlaxer1

Started the race last night as crew on an Express 35 in 15kts, halfway up the weather leg the rains started and the winds picked up to 20-25. About 200 yards from the weather mark it was raining and blowing so hard we couldn't look to weather to see the mark. Got hit with a huge gust and we start to round up and then "bang", steering cable snapped. Kinda hairy for about 5 minutes as we got sails down and emergency tiller rigged up. One full on gybe made it even more interesting but fortunately the crew was safe. 20 minutes later it was beautiful out again as we motored home. 

Welcome back Smack


----------



## aa3jy

smackdaddy said:


> 10 months in the hole. Man, it's dank down there. I need a shower and a smoke.
> 
> But back to what matters - who's been throwin' down some BFS?


Is that like 'Covfefe'..? Welcome back!


----------



## smackdaddy

oldlaxer1 said:


> Started the race last night as crew on an Express 35 in 15kts, halfway up the weather leg the rains started and the winds picked up to 20-25. About 200 yards from the weather mark it was raining and blowing so hard we couldn't look to weather to see the mark. Got hit with a huge gust and we start to round up and then "bang", steering cable snapped. Kinda hairy for about 5 minutes as we got sails down and emergency tiller rigged up. One full on gybe made it even more interesting but fortunately the crew was safe. 20 minutes later it was beautiful out again as we motored home.
> 
> Welcome back Smack


Oh hell yeah!


----------



## ianjoub

smackdaddy said:


> 10 months in the hole. Man, it's dank down there. I need a shower and a smoke.
> 
> But back to what matters - who's been throwin' down some BFS?


Wife and I did 9 days: St. Pete to Dry totugas to Key West, back to St. Pete. in a 53' Jenneau!

Welcome back.


----------



## smackdaddy

ianjoub said:


> Wife and I did 9 days: St. Pete to Dry totugas to Key West, back to St. Pete. in a 53' Jenneau!
> 
> Welcome back.


Pics, my man, pics! Sounds like a great trip!


----------



## ianjoub

smackdaddy said:


> Pics, my man, pics! Sounds like a great trip!


Up until the cold front hit at 2 a.m. when we were 70 miles out... 30+ kts sustained and 10' seas made for a fun ride!


----------



## Minnesail

I don't think it counts as a BFS since it happened on a small city lake, but we had a fun day last Sunday.

A low pressure system was moving through and the airport (which is nearby) showed winds around 20 knots with gusts to 36 knots. 

My wife and I went over to the lake to get some lunch before sailing. As we ate we watched a Montgomery 17 get knocked down a couple times far enough to dip the spreaders, and we saw a Hobie 16 capsize and have a bit of trouble righting.

Just absolutely freaky wind. As in, the main and jib would fill from different directions. At one point I watched my windex rotate completely around the boat, more than 360º. This lake always has fluky winds, being a city lake with lots of trees and buildings around, but this was the freakiest I've seen it.

We put a reef in the main and used our smallest jib and had fun, but it was a lot of work since we were constantly changing direction and trim. My wife compared it to a cooking show where the chef would "put a roast in at 350, change it to 125, back to 500, put in a frying pan for two minutes, then throw it back in the oven with a bag of ice and put in on a cleaning cycle."

But we got up above hull speed and left a nice wake a couple times, and made an excellent dock return under sail.

We went back to the restaurant for a post-sail beer and to watch the fun. I have an extreme zoom camera that we used that to watch a Flying Scot on the other side of the lake completely fail to make progress to windward, and eventually get stuck in the trees (this lake is deep right up to the edge). We watched them tie it off to the trees and leave.

When one of the 36 knot gusts hit a kayak right in front of us capsized! She wasn't wearing a PFD and was unable to re-board her kayak, but she was close enough to shore to swim it back. I asked if she was cold (the water is chilly and the air temp was around 70º) but she seemed mostly concerned that she lost her glass of wine.

Good times.


----------



## smackdaddy

Minnesail said:


> I don't think it counts as a BFS since it happened on a small city lake, but we had a fun day last Sunday.
> 
> A low pressure system was moving through and the airport (which is nearby) showed winds around 20 knots with gusts to 36 knots.
> 
> My wife and I went over to the lake to get some lunch before sailing. As we ate we watched a Montgomery 17 get knocked down a couple times far enough to dip the spreaders, and we saw a Hobie 16 capsize and have a bit of trouble righting.
> 
> Just absolutely freaky wind. As in, the main and jib would fill from different directions. At one point I watched my windex rotate completely around the boat, more than 360º. This lake always has fluky winds, being a city lake with lots of trees and buildings around, but this was the freakiest I've seen it.
> 
> We put a reef in the main and used our smallest jib and had fun, but it was a lot of work since we were constantly changing direction and trim. My wife compared it to a cooking show where the chef would "put a roast in at 350, change it to 125, back to 500, put in a frying pan for two minutes, then throw it back in the oven with a bag of ice and put in on a cleaning cycle."
> 
> But we got up above hull speed and left a nice wake a couple times, and made an excellent dock return under sail.
> 
> We went back to the restaurant for a post-sail beer and to watch the fun. I have an extreme zoom camera that we used that to watch a Flying Scot on the other side of the lake completely fail to make progress to windward, and eventually get stuck in the trees (this lake is deep right up to the edge). We watched them tie it off to the trees and leave.
> 
> When one of the 36 knot gusts hit a kayak right in front of us capsized! She wasn't wearing a PFD and was unable to re-board her kayak, but she was close enough to shore to swim it back. I asked if she was cold (the water is chilly and the air temp was around 70º) but she seemed mostly concerned that she lost her glass of wine.
> 
> Good times.


The body of water means nothing in relation to the BFS. So, let's do a rundown...

Freak winds over 25? Check.
Boats falling over all over the place? Check.
Controlled run out and back with a docking under sail? Check.
Wife making cooking comparisons to how awesome the BFS is? Check.
Booze? Check.

Oh hell yeah!


----------



## Skipper Jer

Oh what a great grand and marvelous day today is. The Smack is back and the Paris deal is out!


----------



## Lazerbrains

Skipper Jer said:


> Oh what a great grand and marvelous day today is. The Smack is back and the Paris deal is out!


Yeah, those both seem equivalent....


----------



## mstern

Lazerbrains said:


> Yeah, those both seem equivalent....


In the sense that they could change the world as we know it.....


----------



## midwesterner

I did a bare boat charter of a Catalina 30 out of The Keys the last week of March. Nice weather, fair winds.


----------



## aeventyr60

Sailing in Sumatra...Trimming a new jib...


----------



## SV Siren

aeventyr60 said:


> Sailing in Sumatra...Trimming a new jib...


I like the cut of your jib.... :laugh


----------



## smackdaddy

aeventyr60 said:


> Sailing in Sumatra...Trimming a new jib...


That's a Beautiful Freakin' Scarf!










I'd say Sumatra is treating you well, my friend.


----------



## Slayer

Hey you are back!!! That's great!!


----------



## smackdaddy

Most recent vid in our Carib Trip series...

We FINALLY make Florida! After crossing Mobile Bay and getting back into the ICW we make our way to Palafox Pier Marina in Pensacola. We tie up and survey our hot mess of a sailboat, then decide to blow off the chores for some food, sand, sun, and fun. Who wants to work in a place like this?


----------



## oysterman23

nice work with the kellet!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


----------



## tschmidty

So another contribution. No it's not that big of a deal all things considered, but Pamlico Sound in 25+ winds is a washing machine. Taking waves on the stern quarter running full genoa, no main. My smaller sail is a handkerchief and didn't want to go forward to change it at that point, kept it sheeted out to dump half the air. My wife is such a trooper! This is on a 23 foot Spirit.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## smackdaddy

Oh hell yeah!


----------



## ianjoub

smackdaddy said:


>


Ok, so tact is not my strong suit. This video, I couldn't make it through, was like watching paint dry. I have watched other videos you made that were much better, more entertaining... Just some feedback, in poor form I know.


----------



## RegisteredUser

smackdaddy said:


> Most recent vid in our Carib Trip series...
> 
> We FINALLY make Florida! After crossing Mobile Bay and getting back into the ICW we make our way to Palafox Pier Marina in Pensacola. We tie up and survey our hot mess of a sailboat, then decide to blow off the chores for some food, sand, sun, and fun. Who wants to work in a place like this?


Good work.
It's real stuff.
Nice kids/family. It's cool to get their perspective which can be way different than an adult/parent.
It's cool that you only own 2 t-shirts...
It bothered me that you haven't really involved the heeler dogs by properly introducing them, and getting their take on this whole thing.
I'd leave dealing with creosote/tar for when punishment is needed. Good decision.
The off-boat stuff goes slow and is more of a personal benefit to you and family.
In FL, you might want to cover/drape those water/gas/diesel containers as the sun can turn them to dust in short time...a suggestion. 
I don't see how you can read your wind instruments when they are so far forward.


----------



## smackdaddy

Here's the next one in the Carib Trip series...

We leave the wonderful town of Pensacola and head offshore for a run across to Panama City. We lose the AutoPilot and handsteer for 15 hours. We run the entrance in the pitch black and drop the anchor at 0200. Boat work commences.


----------



## smackdaddy

ianjoub said:


> Ok, so tact is not my strong suit. This video, I couldn't make it through, was like watching paint dry. I have watched other videos you made that were much better, more entertaining... Just some feedback, in poor form I know.


That's okay. I didn't make it for you.


----------



## smackdaddy

RegisteredUser said:


> Good work.
> It's real stuff.
> Nice kids/family. It's cool to get their perspective which can be way different than an adult/parent.
> It's cool that you only own 2 t-shirts...
> It bothered me that you haven't really involved the heeler dogs by properly introducing them, and getting their take on this whole thing.
> I'd leave dealing with creosote/tar for when punishment is needed. Good decision.
> The off-boat stuff goes slow and is more of a personal benefit to you and family.
> In FL, you might want to cover/drape those water/gas/diesel containers as the sun can turn them to dust in short time...a suggestion.
> I don't see how you can read your wind instruments when they are so far forward.


Thanks Reg.

It's been hard getting the boys to open up on camera. But they finally started getting into it a bit more as we went along. I'm doing these videos mostly for them - for their memories...and for mine. We have such a great time sailing together. It's really a special thing. Just the 3 of us having each others' backs. Best thing I've ever done.

And you're right about the off-boat stuff - but like I said above, I really could care less if people aren't into it. As you say, it's for our benefit first and foremost. If a few others enjoy it - cool. If not - meh.

As for the t-shirts, I've seen these YouTube channels where the people are in perfect clothes every shot. That ain't us. White linen does very poorly with sweat, bird crap, mustard, and diesel. We're blue-collar (or wrinkled, stained t-shirt) cruisers. We just have a hard time giving a damn.

I did cover the jerry cans when we left the boat, but I don't want anything that could get loose while they are on the rail. They're relatively cheap - so I can replace them when they get too pasty.

It really isn't a problem with the instruments. Maybe the camera makes them look further away than they are. Even so, I have all my instrumentation available on our iPad chartplotter as well - so no issues.


----------



## smackdaddy

McSlash said:


> Sorry about opening an old thread, but I just saw this, and registered so I could post. I was the Primary Driver on this boat for 1-1/2 years when it was racing San Francisco Bay.
> And yes, I had to deal with MacGregor Bashers there and then as well.
> In 1990 the boat had been heavily modified . . . people are talking here about the 9' draft, hell it had a 9' rudder when I drove it. The keel had been replaced with a 12' blade with a torpedo at the bottom.
> Most significantly, the rig had been replaced with much taller, bendy, fractional rig.
> My own 26 footer could have fit on Zeus' foredeck.
> I joined the crew just before the 1991 SF to Catalina race . . . I think, I am old and retired now, and that was a long time ago.
> That was the 25 race - for 25 hours it blew 25kts or higher in 25' seas. Yeah. It was also the only time I drove a Sailboat at 25kts!
> We completed the nearly 400 mile race in just under 36 hours, one hour off the record at the time.
> During the 25 hour blow, out of a crew of 9, there were only three of us who could handle the boat . . . Drive till you can't, sleep, wake up and drive again.
> There were also four Coast Guard Rescues that night, it was a blow.
> You know, on a 40' boat, surfing in high seas, you avoid running into the wave ahead, for fear of stalling and spinning out, on Zeus, I used the bow running lights to follow the hollow in the trough. Accelerating upon acceleration, watching the knotmeter climb above 20, watching the rooster tail soaking the boom, listening to what sounded like a combination of fire hoses and tympani, I punched into back the leading wave. I watched from the helm as the boat past through the wave 3' - 4' of water rolling down the deck. I can't imagine what it sounded like below, but the owner rushed up the companionway ladder just in time to have the wave break over his head and pour into the cabin. He turned and glared at me, then looked at the knotmeter, going back up from 22.75kt, turned back to me shaking his head, saying, "You're Reckless", and went back below.
> So, you can trash MacGregor65s all you want, all I'll say is, "how fast is your boat?"
> And I'll wipe away a tear, when I see the end of a Great Boat.
> Rick McCamy


Oh hell yeah!!


----------



## smackdaddy

Next episode of our #CaribTrip...

We spend a couple more days at the Panama City Marina prepping the boat for our offshore run. We take you on a tour of a very lived-in Dawn Treader, then hit the beach for some shenanigans!


----------



## RegisteredUser

Organized disorganization.
Or disorganized organization.
Looked like you kinda remember where stuff is.

Good deal with the LEDs.
Keep on posting.


----------



## smackdaddy

We start our multi-day offshore run from Panama City to St. Pete. Just a few hours in we get hit by a massive thunderstorm - leaving behind big, confused seas. Some water over the bow and a sketchy pitch-black trip to the pointy end at 0300 - but it's absolutely beautiful out there!


----------



## ianjoub

Why drop the sails and start the motor when expecting 40 kn winds instead of reefing?

Are you in Tampa now?


----------



## smackdaddy

ianjoub said:


> Why drop the sails and start the motor when expecting 40 kn winds instead of reefing?
> 
> Are you in Tampa now?


First, it was a thunderstorm. We weren't "expecting" anything. We prepared for violence.

What would you have done?


----------



## ianjoub

I live and sail in the Tampa area. I just reef. Why the motor? There is nothing to hit or avoid out there. Was it just about forward progress?

Are you in Tampa now?


----------



## smackdaddy

ianjoub said:


> I live and sail in the Tampa area. I just reef. Why the motor? There is nothing to hit or avoid out there. Was it just about forward progress?
> 
> Are you in Tampa now?


It was about being conservative. You saw the leading edge of that system. There was no question there was power in it. How much? No way to know.

So I made decisions based on the following...

1. As you can see, my crew consists of 2 young boys and a dog. And I wanted them down below and safe. I don't know what size boat you have, but sails on a 40' boat carry a tremendous amount of power. If that wind would have gotten into the 50s (or more)...which it very easily could have...well, let's just say I'm very comfortable with my call. I don't EVER want my boys (or me) on deck in 40+ wrestling sails because I underestimated that power. And I can always very easily put more sail out when and if I want.

2. To your point, I didn't want to lose too much progress as the storm was coming from the east - where we were headed. Motoring kept us where we were - and comfortable and in control - until it passed. As it was, that storm delayed us for about 5-6 hours. But I was perfectly cool with that. Nothing broke - we were safe - and we kept going.

Also, avoiding collisions out there was not at all my concern. I'm not sure why you think that would matter. Anyway, you should sail your boat exactly the way you feel best. That's what I did.

No I'm not in Tampa.


----------



## ianjoub

The hitting something comment was about starting the motor, nothing to have to actively avoid. 

Discretion is the better part of valor, no problem dropping sails for safety. I was just asking why.

I asked if you were in Tampa because I am an hour north of there. I was going to invite y'all up to go out on the *cough* *cough* power boat to go scalloping and up to the springs to swim, etc...


----------



## RegisteredUser

On the first day, he ate lobster.
On the second day he ate scallops.
On the third day he ate a muffuletta.

In some states, there is no limit on wild muffulettas.
But check your state's regs to be sure.....


----------



## smackdaddy

ianjoub said:


> The hitting something comment was about starting the motor, nothing to have to actively avoid.
> 
> Discretion is the better part of valor, no problem dropping sails for safety. I was just asking why.
> 
> I asked if you were in Tampa because I am an hour north of there. I was going to invite y'all up to go out on the *cough* *cough* power boat to go scalloping and up to the springs to swim, etc...


Thanks ian. I appreciate the thought. Our boat is currently in the Ft. Myers area and we are back in Texas right now.


----------



## bigdogandy

Looks like you guys are having an awesome time, Smack....goodonya for having this kind of adventure with your boys and thanks for sharing the vids!


----------



## ianjoub

smackdaddy said:


> Thanks ian. I appreciate the thought. Our boat is currently in the Ft. Myers area and we are back in Texas right now.


Ahhhh, the videos lag behind real time. Brain fart on my end.

I guess the final leg to the Bahamas or Carribean is next summer.

Best of luck to you!


----------



## ianjoub

smackdaddy said:


> Thanks ian. I appreciate the thought. Our boat is currently in the Ft. Myers area and we are back in Texas right now.


When you come back for the next leg, take me up on my offer. The springs here are something worth seeing.


----------



## colemj

smackdaddy said:


> First, it was a thunderstorm. We weren't "expecting" anything. We prepared for violence.
> 
> What would you have done?


That is what we do. T-storms are very different from fronts and other harder weather. Particularly off Florida. One never can predict wind direction or strength in these, and sometimes both change instantly and violently. We just drop the sails and start the engines. Sometimes we end up just raising the sails again soon because nothing big happens, but we never regret the tactic.

We learned this caution only after our second or third time caught in **** conditions with 180* wind shifts, slamming sails, blinding rain. Now, the worse we suffer is having to raise the sails again after the storm passes.

Mark


----------



## colemj

Interesting... I didn't type "****". 

Mark


----------



## smackdaddy

Watch your mouth mister.


----------



## smackdaddy

We continue our multi-day offshore run from Panama City, and finally arrive in St. Petersburg and get some much needed beach time...


----------



## smackdaddy

Definitely a Big Freakin' Charter.

Watch the faces go from "woohoo" to "imadie".


----------



## smackdaddy

No beaches. No bikinis. No palm trees. No pina coladas.






Definitely my kind of guy. And...

Oh hell yeah!!


----------



## smackdaddy

Episode 18






Have you ever dived an aquarium? I didn't think so.


----------



## chall03

So this thread has been going for 9 years! Thats a few Big freakin' sails Smack!


----------



## smackdaddy

chall03 said:


> So this thread has been going for 9 years! Thats a few Big freakin' sails Smack!


It is pretty impressive, eh Challo? Of course, because it's about sailing and boats I'm sure it's just a matter of time before it gets locked too.

In the mean time, are you guys chronicling your adventures? I'd love to follow along!


----------



## chall03

smackdaddy said:


> In the mean time, are you guys chronicling your adventures? I'd love to follow along!


Yes we are!

It pales in comparison to the infamous viral success that is the BFS empire. Still a bit of a work in progress but there is plenty more content on the way I promise!

Look...at the very least you can bookmark my blog so if I buy a Moody and my keel falls off you will be able to find it easily for quoting my oopsies in the thread 

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## smackdaddy

I've gotten very, very picky as to what goes in this vaunted thread as it steams toward 1M views...but this...this, my friends, qualifies...

A story about my friend and SN member colemj...



> Shark!! (And A Dang Good Grouper, Too)
> 
> This is really a story about my friend Mark Cole and his willingness to put himself between a shark and me while spear fishing in the Ragged Islands. I'll let Mark, in his own words, tell the story, but first a bit of background.
> 
> I'm new to Spear Fishing. Oh sure, I've carried around a pole spear from time to time when snorkeling the Bahamas reefs, but I've never really learned to spear fish. My friend Mark Cole (Manta 40ish "Reach") has been spear fishing for years and has been kind enough to teach me how to hunt for fish with a spear.
> 
> The other day, we were working our way around the reefs on the North side of Raccoon Cay, not having much luck. Michelle was with us, as dinghy driver, at the ready to help get a fish on the boat, if necessary. On one reef, we were stalking a threesome of nice Tiger Groupers, waiting for them to make a mistake. Mark saw a Bull Shark that he said was being a bit persistent, so we abandoned the Tigers and moved on.
> 
> We dropped in on a few other spots with not much luck. As we worked our way back around the west end of the island, we found a cluster of small coral heads that looked interesting so we dropped in. As usual, Mark went around off in one direction and I went around the other way. As we cover an area, we usually end up back in the middle. As we came back together, Mark climbed up in the boat and I handed up my spear up, getting ready to climb aboard. Just before I did my normal "Lunge" up in to the boat, I happened to notice a couple of nice Grouper swimming past. I grabbed my spear and headed after them. The largest of the two ducked in to a hole in the reef, but it didn't really fit him. I could see a portion of his body through the hole, so I took a shot and got him.
> 
> Now, here's where I learned the first new lesson about Grouper. Grouper, have an uncanny ability to open their gills, wedging them against a cave wall to keep you from just pulling them out. This guy was wedged in so tight that I couldn't pull him out. Out of breath, I abandoned my spear and head up for some air. Michelle and Mark were watching from just above me, so when I explained the situation, Mark jumped in to help me pry the sucker out.
> 
> Here's another thing I learned about Grouper, when injured or threatened, they make a grunting sound that sounds something like a pig's grunt. And the grunt is very loud under water.
> 
> Mark and I took turns down 12-15 feet to the reef where the fish was lodged, trying to convince him to come to dinner. After about 20 minutes, of working on him, Mark ALMOST had him out. As he was running out of breath, the spear ripped out of the fish, but I was there to continue the fight, grabbed the fish's tail and continued working on getting the gills tight against the fish, so I could pull him out. I knew that without the spear to hold him, this was my last chance to claim my prize, so I was totally focused on getting him on this last try.
> 
> That's when Mark first saw the shark. In his words (borrowed from an earlier facebook post):
> 
> "Clark shot a big ol' grouper that holed up in a tiny hole and gill-locked. We spent 15-20 minutes trying to work it back out, with it grunting and bleeding. Wasn't thinking about that last part at the time&#8230;
> 
> He was down there with it almost extracted when I saw a 7′ bull shark going for him like a bullet. I dropped down between him and the shark hoping to gain Clark a bit of time. The shark came right up to me, turned and went the other way, so I went up for some air. Took a breath, looked down, and the shark was 2′ from me coming straight up at me. Hit me in the middle and threw me out of the water. I landed on my back with the shark on top of me thrashing about.
> 
> Since I was staring at his pointy mouth, I decided I wanted to be on the other side of him, so I hugged it and rolled over it. Now I was riding on its back instead of having my head in its mouth. That quickly got old, so I let go and he swam back down and away. Then headed toward Clark again. The shark broke one of my fin blades, so I got into the dinghy and we were yelling for Clark, who still hadn't seen the shark. Finally, as he was coming to the dinghy, he saw it and tossed me the grouper. Nobody can catch a grouper, so it slipped out of my hands and started to sink down to the shark. Somehow the shark missed the fish, but Clark got into the dinghy and the fish floated to the surface right over to him. It was Clark's fish and nothing was going to take it away - he plucked it out and we left a frustrated shark."
> 
> Thanks Mark! I'm not sure if you saved my life, but you almost certainly saved me from a nasty bite. And a huge thanks to Michelle as well for volunteering to stay on the dinghy and follow us around. We could have easily been 100+ yards away from an anchored dinghy with a big, mad shark!
> 
> From Michelle's perspective on the boat, here are her comments:
> 
> "I didn't know there was anything wrong until Mark came to the surface, yelling 'SHARK' through his snorkel, as he tried to get Clark's attention. Within seconds, Mark was out of the water, with a huge shark pushing him at his chest. The shark came lunging out of the water and the two were belly to belly. I thought for sure that the shark was biting Mark, but then he was able to roll over and hug the shark's back before letting go and the shark swam quickly away. "
> 
> It all happened so fast and there are no pictures from the actual attack, but here are a few pre and post pictures.
> 
> That's Mark Cole on the right and his partner, Michele Kelly on the left. Michele was snorkeling on a reef on the other side of the island when this happened. This picture, BTW, was taken last year up in Nova Scotia.
> 
> Michelle, the dinghy captain and "bubble watcher."
> 
> Clark catching a breath on the surface between attempts to dislodge his Grouper.
> 
> And the final result, safely back aboard ROAM. The fish weighed in at 15 pounds, BTW! He would have been a great meal for that shark, but we're enjoying him instead, thanks, Mr. Shark!


Oh hell yeah!!!










COLEMJ - Big Freakin' Sharker.


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