# Day/overnight sailers with an enclosed head



## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

I don't need a boat that "sleeps 6 comfortably". I just want the option to empty my bladder out of sight of any of my companions during a day on the water.

Name me that boat.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Your ONLY requirement for a daysailer is that it has an enclosed head?

What size boat did you have in mind? Enclosed heads take up a lot of space, so you probably won't find many on daysailers. More likely you would have a portapotty, if you are lucky it will be in a nook.

If you do find a small boat with an enclosed head it is likely to be very cramped and awkward to use.

When we bought our last boat an enclosed head was a priority for my wife. We were looking in the 27-30ft range and even then not every boat had one. The 30' boat we ended up with did have an enclosed head, but it was a bit cramped, with not a lot of width for elbows and knees which made it a bit awkward for my wife. 

How about a privacy curtain? That is simple to rig up!

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## bristol299bob (Apr 13, 2011)

Vancouver 25, bristol 27, pearson 28 come to mind ... as well as similar sizes cape dory, hunter, catalina, etc. 

I wouldn't call these "day sailers" but they are fine overnighters.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Beneteau 235 and Tanzer 25 are a couple of small boats with decent heads. Right at the bottom of the companion way so you don't need to wander through the boat to get to it. Proper wood door that closes.


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

SchockT said:


> Your ONLY requirement for a daysailer is that it has an enclosed head?


No, of course not. But not having one is increasingly a deal breaker.



SchockT said:


> What size boat did you have in mind? Enclosed heads take up a lot of space, so you probably won't find many on daysailers. More likely you would have a portapotty, if you are lucky it will be in a nook.


I'm content on my 17' Suncat most of the time. And, it has a portapotty. I'm also over 6' tall, and if I use said portapotty, my head is sticking 8" out above the companionway. It doesn't stop me, mind you, but it is uncomfortable with guests, and guests prefer to end the sail rather than use it.

Less than 30' would be good. Less than 25' ideal.



SchockT said:


> If you do find a small boat with an enclosed head it is likely to be very cramped and awkward to use.


Thus the thread?



SchockT said:


> How about a privacy curtain? That is simple to rig up!


Agreed. Most small boats (<10m) don't have anything approaching sitting room for me though. Again, name that boat.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

An absolute must. 
I like my privacy! 

😊


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Rmaddy said:


> No, of course not. But not having one is increasingly a deal breaker.
> 
> I'm content on my 17' Suncat most of the time. And, it has a portapotty. I'm also over 6' tall, and if I use said portapotty, my head is sticking 8" out above the companionway. It doesn't stop me, mind you, but it is uncomfortable with guests, and guests prefer to end the sail rather than use it.
> 
> Less than 30' would be good. Less than 25' ideal.


Thus the thread?

Agreed. Most small boats 
Are you thinking keelboat or trailer sailer?

[Edited by Mod. Something got a bit messed up]


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## cb32863 (Oct 5, 2009)

I have the previously recommend Beneteau First 235. Most came with a standard marine head. Mine, which is "newer" (1992), came with a porta-potti. I changed to an MSD with pump out connection. Great boat for weekends, over nights, or day sailing. Great pocket cruiser.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The first boat I recall my folks having, as a young child, had a porta-potty. I could use it, without my head coming through the hatch, but adults couldn't. I totally get it. No good.

Since you like Com-pacs, for good reason, is there enough room to sit below on a Horizon? I see the cabin has 4' headroom. Sounds like it could.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Same question I had twenty years ago when looking for my first big boy boat. We had time shared on a Catalina 22, and the Admiral hated that you had to close up the companion way to get any privacy to use the head. I found that the Oday 23 has the head behind a real door. Granted, the head is in the forward cabin with the v-berth (so no privacy when two are sleeping there), but still, it’s way better than having the thing in the open in the saloon. I believe that later models of the Oday 22 also had the head behind a door.

I had that Oday 23 for almost twenty years, and the separate head was something my wife truly appreciated about that boat.


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

Minnewaska said:


> The first boat I recall my folks having, as a young child, had a porta-potty. I could use it, without my head coming through the hatch, but adults couldn't. I totally get it. No good.
> 
> Since you like Com-pacs, for good reason, is there enough room to sit below on a Horizon? I see the cabin has 4' headroom. Sounds like it could.


Although Com-Pac is basically running a website straight out of 2005, it appears that the porta-potty is stow under the V-berth, which at least means closing the companionway would block the sight-line. Depending on where I retire, a Horizon Cat might be in my future, but I'll probably opt for something with a jib.

[Edited by Mod]


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

mstern said:


> Same question I had twenty years ago when looking for my first big boy boat. We had time shared on a Catalina 22, and the Admiral hated that you had to close up the companion way to get any privacy to use the head. I found that the Oday 23 has the head behind a real door. Granted, the head is in the forward cabin with the v-berth (so no privacy when two are sleeping there), but still, it's way better than having the thing in the open in the saloon. I believe that later models of the Oday 22 also had the head behind a door.
> 
> I had that Oday 23 for almost twenty years, and the separate head was something my wife truly appreciated about that boat.


They're starting to get pretty long in the tooth, but the basic arrangement of the Oday 23 would work. There's an old gentleman who has one on the lake I sail. I've only ever seen him out in it once.


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## -OvO- (Dec 31, 2011)

Literally anything, plus a handful of blindfolds.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Deleted some antagonism.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

That's a long list. You can't figure this out?


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

Siamese said:


> That's a long list. You can't figure this out?


I'm not sure what you mean.


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

So, never assume, but I was hoping that there would be some other "Hers" weighing in when I posted this in HerSailnet.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Bucket and wear a cape..

...its just pee or poo...and we all do it


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Rmaddy said:


> So, never assume, but I was hoping that there would be some other "Hers" weighing in when I posted this in HerSailnet.


You're our résident Her.

😀😁😀


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

When I met my wife she was crewing on my 20ft race boat with minimal headroom and a bucket to pee in. When we were racing she had to pee with the companionway spinnaker bag acting like a privacy screen. She never complained....that's when I knew she was a keeper!

Our next boat she was adamant that we have an enclosed head. She got one, but it was quite small. It was too narrow to spread the legs enough to wipe so she had to open the door and set one foot out! (TMI? Sorry!) Again she never complained...much!

Finally after 20 years of marriage she got a comfortable, functional head!









1979 Santana 30 head









2011 Jeanneau 39i head
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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Never, I repeat never, underestimate the value of an enclosed head to the ladies. When we timeshared on a Catalina 22 (head in the open in the saloon), we daysailed with a few other couples. One couple (one of our favorites) came with us once, but never again. Years later, she admitted that it was because she was too shy to use the head in that boat, and didn't want to have to hold it in for an entire day. That really stayed with me when I went looking for a boat in that size range. I did quite a bit of research, and the only boats I found that fit the bill (head behind a door/screen) were the Oday 23 and the Catalina 25.


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

Yep, that's totally a thing. The only time I got my daughter out on the boat she was miserable after an hour and was uncomfortable with the onboard option. I've gotten used to using the portapotty, but out of necessity. I like to be out 4-5 hours at a time, and well hydrated out in the sun.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

mstern said:


> Never, I repeat never, underestimate the value of an enclosed head to the ladies.


Perhaps more so for females, but I'd say the same for many, if not most, males too. Especially, groups that are not all intimate family or friends. I've never been a pee over the rail guy, myself, even with just guys around.

Heads are not gender distinct, IMO. A boat without a reasonable head is not a day sailor, it's an hour or two sailor.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

my first real "cruise" was waaaay back. I was 20 and visiting my friend in Sweden. His family had a 35 foot sailboat that we (me, my friend and his other friend) took out for about a week; his friend was replaced by his parents at some point, and we sailed for a few more days. When I first got aboard, I was a bit surprised to hear that the head was inoperable and was being used as a sail locker. One was expected to pee over the side; number 2 was to be done ashore. This is when I found out that I had "shy bladder" and didn't like peeing in public. I practically burst that first day and had to learn to hold it in until we went swimming or tied up for the night at a marina or at some island. I still remember thinking that in time, I would remember how great the sailing was and forget my almost daily discomfort. I got in the habit of waking up early to pee in "privacy" over the side or ashore. One morning, I was groggy in my berth when I heard our engine start and us starting to move. I burst out of the forward hatch, desperate to make it ashore and pee before starting out. My friend's dad told me that we were just moving to another anchorage. Such stress....


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Taking guests away on a 35ft boat with a non-functioning head is inexcusable in my book. Having a head malfunction after you leave is one thing, but leaving the dock knowing it is not working and planning a trip anyway? Bad form! That said, you could have just peed in a bottle or bucket and dumped it overboard.

To the original subject, looking for a small daysailer with an enclosed head is a big ask. Even a typical 25ft keelboat is likely to have a porta pottie. If you are lucky it will be in a cubby with walls on 3 sides to give some privacy. An actual marine head in it's own room, takes up a lot of space. Not just the head itself, but the holding tank, plumbing, etc. It also adds to maintenance, and increases potential for nasty odors on board. It just isn't worth it for a daysailer imho.

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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

Another 'her' here. An enclosed head was on my 'must' list. Both because I wanted one and I wanted one for any friends I took sailing. No regrets. 

A Pearson 28-2 is a really nice compromise between a day sailor and a cruising boat - has most of the comforts of a 'big boat' in a small package.


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## jvlassak (Oct 1, 2009)

You may want to consider a Rhodes 22 - it's trailerable and has an enclosed head. I don't know how well they sail, but I've heard most owners tend to be very happy with them.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

jvlassak said:


> You may want to consider a Rhodes 22 - it's trailerable and has an enclosed head. I don't know how well they sail, but I've heard most owners tend to be very happy with them.


That looks like a cool little boat. The enclosed head is pretty well done, but it does dominate the space a bit. Is that a crawl through opening from the v-berth into the head?






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## jvlassak (Oct 1, 2009)

SchockT said:


> That looks like a cool little boat. The enclosed head is pretty well done, but it does dominate the space a bit. Is that a crawl through opening from the v-berth into the head?


Not sure, but I think there is a sliding hatch


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

The "walls" on the head on the Rhodes 22 actually fold out to create an enclosed space, then fold up to save space in the cabin. The Rhodes 22 is an ingenious craft, with lots of very practical and proprietary features that take it out of the mainstream. It's also a pricey option for its size. 

I've also noticed that some have interpreted the OP's desire for an enclosed head to mean that he wants a toilet system with a real marine head/holding tank, while others (me for example) understood him to mean he wants privacy without regard to whether the head is a portable or fixed toilet. I note that my suggestion (the Oday 23) did not come factory- equipped with a marine head, although I have seen examples where owners have "upgraded" to that type of system. I put quotes around "upgraded" because I don't really think a marine head is necessary or even desirable if you are mostly daysailing. If you just want a place to pee in privacy, a portable toilet is, IMHO, the best option. Much more convenient to use (especially for guests who won't have to deal with flipping switches and pumping), far less expensive to install, and virtually maintenance free. I found that I usually only had to empty the thing once at the end of the season. Fill the reservoir with clean water in the spring, put some of that blue stuff in the holding tank section, then forget about it until October. 

If you do want a real marine toilet with a holding tank, then it's much easier to retrofit one of those into an Oday 23 than it is to fashion an enclosed head space into a boat that doesn't already have one.


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

mstern said:


> I've also noticed that some have interpreted the OP's desire for an enclosed head to mean that *he* wants a toilet system with a real marine head/holding tank, while others (me for example) understood *him* to mean *he* wants privacy without regard to whether the head is a portable or fixed toilet.


Happens every time. Not only do you guys come in to HerSailnet and dominate the conversation, but you assume that I too am male, because heck...who else would post here? Thank you emcentar, for your post. I took a long break from this place. Looks like its time for another.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Rmaddy said:


> Happens every time. Not only do you guys come in to HerSailnet and dominate the conversation, but you assume that I too am male, because heck...who else would post here? Thank you emcentar, for your post. I took a long break from this place. Looks like its time for another.


Most people use "recent posts" rather than targeting specific sub forums. I didn't even notice that you posted in "Her Sailnet" right away.

I am sorry if I offended you by replying to your thread in what you seem to consider an exclusively female sub forum. You will notice that the most recent 3 posts in HerSailnet before yours were August, September and November. It is not a very active forum.

If you are offended by someone mistaking you for male when you post on an anonymous forum then maybe forums are not the right medium for you?

Everyone here are just sailors trying to help other sailors. Gender is not important. You are the only one who seems to think it matters.

I guess us men are not qualified to comment on the merits of different types of heads on boats.

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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

mstern said:


> The "walls" on the head on the Rhodes 22 actually fold out to create an enclosed space, then fold up to save space in the cabin. The Rhodes 22 is an ingenious craft, with lots of very practical and proprietary features that take it out of the mainstream. It's also a pricey option for its size.
> 
> I've also noticed that some have interpreted the OP's desire for an enclosed head to mean that he wants a toilet system with a real marine head/holding tank, while others (me for example) understood him to mean he wants privacy without regard to whether the head is a portable or fixed toilet. I note that my suggestion (the Oday 23) did not come factory- equipped with a marine head, although I have seen examples where owners have "upgraded" to that type of system. I put quotes around "upgraded" because I don't really think a marine head is necessary or even desirable if you are mostly daysailing. If you just want a place to pee in privacy, a portable toilet is, IMHO, the best option. Much more convenient to use (especially for guests who won't have to deal with flipping switches and pumping), far less expensive to install, and virtually maintenance free. I found that I usually only had to empty the thing once at the end of the season. Fill the reservoir with clean water in the spring, put some of that blue stuff in the holding tank section, then forget about it until October.
> 
> If you do want a real marine toilet with a holding tank, then it's much easier to retrofit one of those into an Oday 23 than it is to fashion an enclosed head space into a boat that doesn't already have one.


Quotes like

"I've gotten used to using the portapotty, but out of necessity."

Are what lead me to believe that SHE was looking for more than just a portapotty. Perhaps I was wrong, perhaps SHE would be happy with an enclosed portapoty. That would be a better arrangement on a small daysailer, which is one of the points I was trying to make.

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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

Rmaddy said:


> Happens every time. Not only do you guys come in to HerSailnet and dominate the conversation, but you assume that I too am male, because heck...who else would post here? Thank you emcentar, for your post. I took a long break from this place. Looks like its time for another.


Sorry Rmaddy; I didn't realize this was posted in the HerSailnet forum. I just use the "new" and "popular" functions to find what I hope are interesting threads, and try to contribute; I don't look at what forum it's posted in. Aside from mistaking you for a "him" instead of a "her", I don't think any of my comments or suggestions is otherwise invalidated by my or your gender. Regardless of whether you sit or stand to pee, most of us want a bit of privacy.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Still have not seen any articulation on how an ask for day-overnight-sailers with an enclosed head is gender specific. If one only values responses based on the gender of the responder, that's not right. I don't even know the gender of most posters here.

I went back and read the origin of the "her" forum. Ironically, one of the more prolific female posters of the time, was cautious about it's need, if not actually opposed. It was men who were trying to create more inclusion. 

The desire to be more inclusive is important and hope the entire sport can become more so. Trying to get there, by excluding or devaluing the opposite gender, is just repeating the problem, isn't it.


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## emcentar (Apr 28, 2009)

I'd say wrt sailing, gender probably matters most in two things: (1) how you are treated on the boat and how that impacts your enjoyment of sailing, and (2) aversion of exposed heads and porti-pottis.

You gentlemen have all been peeing in front of your friends and your bosses your entire lives, you're more inured to it, probably.


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## mstern (May 26, 2002)

emcentar said:


> I'd say wrt sailing, gender probably matters most in two things: (1) how you are treated on the boat and how that impacts your enjoyment of sailing, and (2) aversion of exposed heads and porti-pottis.
> 
> You gentlemen have all been peeing in front of your friends and your bosses your entire lives, you're more inured to it, probably.


A very wise and strong-willed feminist I knew back in the day used to insist that the concept of p*** envy was total hors**. Except, she said, when on a camping trip.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

emcentar said:


> You gentlemen have all been peeing in front of your friends and your bosses your entire lives


Not all.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

emcentar said:


> I'd say wrt sailing, gender probably matters most in two things: (1) how you are treated on the boat and how that impacts your enjoyment of sailing, and (2) aversion of exposed heads and porti-pottis.
> 
> You gentlemen have all been peeing in front of your friends and your bosses your entire lives, you're more inured to it, probably.


I have raced with women on the crews of many race boats over the years and the vast majority have been treated no different than the guys on the crew. The expectations were the same as the guys...do your job, and try not to screw up! Certainly the women need to be able to handle the banter on board, and for the most part they could give as well as they got. On the smaller boats that didn't have heads they were up to the challenge of using a bucket to pee, and everyone respected their privacy when the time came. I do recall one particular incident where one of the crew was trying to pee into a flimsy ice-cream bucket and we hit a wave...she lost her balance and sat on the bucket and crushed it..we all laughed including her. Just another sailing story that still gets told. One girl whipped out a "female director cup" that looked like a funnel that she stuffed down her pants so she could try peeing over the side....it didn't work very well!

Most women are welcome on crews if they want to race. Some of the women I know are very good sailors.

The ones that come onto a boat and want to get special treatment, or are going to take offense to every off colour joke the guys tell probably won't be so well received. Usually those ones are the skippers wife or girlfriend. They can be very toxic on a race team. One team I used to race on for years completely disbanded because the skippers wife forced her way onto the team. Even the female crew refused to race with her. They are divorced now...

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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

SchockT said:


> If you are offended by someone mistaking you for male when you post on an anonymous forum then maybe forums are not the right medium for you?
> 
> Everyone here are just sailors trying to help other sailors. Gender is not important. You are the only one who seems to think it matters.
> 
> I guess us men are not qualified to comment on the merits of different types of heads on boats.





Minnewaska said:


> The desire to be more inclusive is important and hope the entire sport can become more so. Trying to get there, by excluding or devaluing the opposite gender, is just repeating the problem, isn't it.


First of all, if you two don't think there is, on balance, a gendered difference in what passes for adequate facilities, and levels of experience with accommodations built without your biological needs properly factored in, you are entirely mistaken, whatever your personal preferences may be. There is nothing ridiculous about either attempting to solicit female opinion on this matter or expressing disappointment when 100% of the responses up to that expression are from men.

I get that some might not have picked up on my intention in posting this to HerSailNet. Nevertheless, once I stated explicitly from whom I was hoping to get input, several pathways lay before you. You could have simply respected what I was looking for and bowed out of the conversation. You could have recognized that being misgendered is awkward and uncomfortable and offered an unqualified apology. If you are unsure about how to do that, and even gracefully remaining in the conversation afterward, study the posts of *mstern*, above. You could have simply pointed out that you came in through Recent Posts without launching into a diatribe about the unfitness of specificlally seeking an opinion from women. Somehow, you two landed the option of feeling wounded and using that as an opportunity to mansplain gender dynamics to me. That wasn't the strongest choice.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

Ah yes, the "man-splaining" complaint. Now I know exactly where you are coming from.

I will leave you to sit in your private little girls-only thread on an inactive sub-forum waiting for a woman to answer your question. 



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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Misgendered...
Ok


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Pretty clear who's wounded. One wants inclusion, the other wants segregation.


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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

Minnewaska said:


> Pretty clear who's wounded. One wants inclusion, the other wants segregation.


Segregation? You're hysterical! 

I want, on one specific issue, opinions from female sailors for reasons that I clearly articulated. The entire breadth of this website, almost exclusively populated and posted by male sailors, lies at your disposal, but you feel like a victim because one woman would rather hear from someone else than the cadre who hold forth in every other discussion.

And no, I'm not wounded, but neither am I surprised by the fragility of egos, nor comments (not yours) above to the effect that women are _sometimes_ good sailors if they learn their place and put up with "the banter" and "off-color humor" (also known as boorishness and/or sexual harassment).

I can't stop you from posting here, but I'm not interested in your opinion in this particular case, and even less so since you seem hellbent on turning the discussion into an opportunity for virtue signaling and claims of "reverse discrimination" and other mythical beasts. Maybe your time would be better spent in another thread? Unless, of course, it really is all about you.


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## SchockT (May 21, 2012)

No, actually you were not clear at all in your original post, but you started a conversation. We talked about the challenges of finding enclosed heads on small daysailers, and the fact that enclosed heads on smaller boats are sometimes awkward to use, as well asother possible solutions to your privacy issue. Some guys said that they too liked their privacy. A specific model of boat was mentioned that might be what you are looking for, I even posted a link to an ad with pictures of the boat and what the head looked like.

Did you participate in any of that conversation on the subject that you started? No you did not. Instead you seized on ONE post where someone referred to the OP as "he" because he didn't pick up that you were female, and you jumped down our throats for it.

You complained that we were posting on HerSailnet forum and we were men, so we explained that it was because we used a sorting tool that displayed recent posts, and did not sort them based on what sub forum they were in. Instead of accepting that explanation and moving on you accused us of "man-splaining".

You are the one that has come with a giant chip on your shoulder. You are looking very hard for reasons to be offended.

I don't know how many women there are on this site. Some likely blend in because so many of us have non gender specific user names. The HerSailnet subforum was put in place a long time ago but it doesn't get a lot of traffic. Clearly there is little interest in it. 

There are a lot of users on this site that know a lot about boats, and are more than willing to help you find a boat that suits your needs, but yes, most of us are male. Clearly you have already decided that we have nothing to offer, and that only women are qualified to talk about enclosed heads on sailboats. That's fine.

Next time I suggest you specify in your thread title "male responders not welcome". Then you can see how much information comes your way.

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## Rmaddy (Feb 8, 2019)

SchockT said:


> No, actually you were not clear at all in your original post, but you started a conversation. We talked about the challenges of finding enclosed heads on small daysailers, and the fact that enclosed heads on smaller boats are sometimes awkward to use, as well asother possible solutions to your privacy issue. Some guys said that they too liked their privacy. A specific model of boat was mentioned that might be what you are looking for, I even posted a link to an ad with pictures of the boat and what the head looked like.
> 
> Did you participate in any of that conversation on the subject that you started? No you did not. Instead you seized on ONE post where someone referred to the OP as "he" because he didn't pick up that you were female, and you jumped down our throats for it.
> 
> ...


Puh-lease. If I labeled a post in that manner, you'd be here just as furious as you are, marking territory and acting aggrieved.

If it wasn't obvious that I was looking for female input in the beginning, it certainly has been for some time, and yet you prattle on, despite claiming that you were stepping out.

And, by no means do I think all the male input here has been mansplaining. *Mstern*'s was certainly reasonable, polite and welcome and most of the others simply bowed out when they understood my request. Two of you, however, chose to make a huge issue out of soliciting female input as if that is an act of discrimination, lecturing me for having the audacity to make such a request and basically trolling my posts ever since. In your case, you opted to educate me on how women are occasionally fine on boats as long as they tolerate sexist humor and crude banter, although wives and girlfriends are nothing but trouble. So as to illustrate the point, you relate an unfortunate incident that probably horrified the woman to whom it happened, but since she opted to laugh it off, you feel like it proves that she is the right sort of woman, whatever that means. Got it. Anything else?

Grab a mirror if you want to understand why this sub-forum isn't heavily used. Meanwhile, do you really lose anything by leaving me to it?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Rmaddy said:


> I want, on one specific issue, opinions from female sailors for reasons that I clearly articulated.


The men on this site all began the thread, including me, with nothing but helpful input. You rejected it on the basis of their gender. You have done nothing but make the claim there are gender specific needs to the features of an enclosed head (which is distinct from wanting an enclosed head). You've not attempted to say what those needs are. Men sit too. Most men have female partners and would benefit from understanding this, if there is secret. It would be constructive and inclusive, if you explained.

If you only value female replies to objective issues, that's on you. It's your right, I suppose, but no way you can control the masses here. You made it a gender thing.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

This thread is locked while the moderators discuss gender issues.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Only female mod here. I have nothing much to contribute to the head discussion as our first boat had a porta potty and I got by but we didn't have guests. Our current boat has an enclosed head. That said, I see the very valid question went off the rails pretty soon when Rmaddy was asked if that was the only requirement. Well, that was the only question she had. Sometimes there is only one question at a time to deal with. Doesn't mean there aren't more, just means the poster is focused on one. It's not that hard.

Anyway, as "here we are again" with our female forum members getting the brunt of the male members demanding/questioning/wondering why we even have this forum. For now I'll just ask that we focus on the question being asked and not the philosophical need for this forum. The fact is, I probably have more fingers on one hand than there are females who post in SailNet and probably for just this reason.

I'll probably have to give up on Dry January if I need to discuss gender issues with MarkofSeaLife. 

Keep it respectful, please.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

It's probably good practice to state no male posts invited, if that's what's wanted
As said, many hit the new posts


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Please, let's not debate the need for this forum. I think it's understood that the number of females who post has drastically reduced over the years and men will respond here. The mods will revisit whether we should keep this forum but we won't do it in this thread. Actually, if the OP posted outside this forum I expect the responses wouldn't be all that different.


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## olson34 (Oct 13, 2000)

I thought the OP wanted ideas for finding a boat. Given that smaller boats are _very_ geography specific due to scattered out builders over the years, every part of the country will have differing inventories of used boats.
The OP needs to put his/her sailing area into a sig line, and state how far he/she would go to bring a boat home.

For instance, here in the NW, one of the top contenders would be a Ranger 24, but in SoCal it might be a Cal 25...
And so it goes.


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