# No Experience...



## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

Hello from Montana.
I've been lurking in some forums for quite awhile, still don't know much. If anything.
Planning on selling it all and buying a boat. After all my reading and research I am looking for a Tartan 34. Seems like the ideal boat for me and my plans. Any help in finding a decent one somewhere south of $20,000 would be greatly appreciated. I'm not afraid of a little work, or even a lot of work, I feel pretty confident that I can do pretty much any repair myself. Anyway, I'm Paul and look forward to joining the fairly amazing and inspiring community.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Welcome, Paul. Have you been aboard a boat before? Stayed on one for any length of time?


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## ravinracin (Apr 21, 2010)

Welcome!


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Try to charter a Tartan 34 before buying one. Then charter a bunch of boats with different deck and interior layouts.


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

I've spent a lot of time on power boats. Did a lot of camping for week to 2 week trips on my 20' bayliner cuddy cabin. Never been on a sailboat before. For work I am always on the road. Used to live in a 24' camper for months even a couple year long jobs. I don't know, but I think some of that will have helped prepare me for life on a sailboat. I don't claim to be right all the time however.


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

Chartering really isn't an option. Going all out. I understand why you bring up chartering and if I could I definitely would. So yes, I am one of the poor people that get on a forum and get berated for trying. I'm committed and willing to weather it. I do believe there will be some support and useful information and advice. I look forward to it all.


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## DonScribner (Jan 9, 2011)

Paul'

If I may be so bold, consider buying a trailer sailor in the 23 foot range. Inexpensive to buy and maintain and many to choose from. Take a class or two and sail your aft off. Make all those newbie mistakes that some of us are willing to admit. Loose some gelcoat, your lunch, and a little bit of pride. After a few years if you still love it, trade up for bigger prizes. 

Don


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

PGehrke said:


> ...look forward to joining the fairly amazing and inspiring community.


Are we talking about the same forum?

There is not much sailing in Montana. Where do you plan to start your journey?

There is a Tartan 34C in Annapolis with your name on it, coincidentally for $20K:

1974 Tartan 34C sailboat for sale in Maryland

Go for it! You are a man with a plan...


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## FirstCandC (Mar 26, 2013)

Welcome, Paul!
Not to feed the addiction or anything..
Tartan T34C, 1971, Arnold, Maryland, sailboat for sale from Sailing Texas, yacht for sale
I would definitely get a survey. You can save time learning about the boat's systems just by being on site for the survey.

BTW, I do not know that particular boat or its owner. I have been on one, and that is a spacious boat. Wouldn't feel comfortable docking it solo in wind or current, but your skills may adjust at a faster rate than mine.

And like jameswilson said, where do you plan to start?


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

You may ...
I'm more than certain I will have mistakes, lost lunches, a few scratches (me and the boat), and my pride has never really concerned me much. Although I do blush....
I really have made up my mind and plan on going all in. Never was good at just settling or going halfway.
I don't suppose too many people will get it or understand, but I have never felt like something was more suited to me.
I really don't feel like I have too much to lose other than time, which is important to me, and money, which has never really interested me much.



DonScribner said:


> Paul'
> 
> If I may be so bold, consider buying a trailer sailor in the 23 foot range. Inexpensive to buy and maintain and many to choose from. Take a class or two and sail your aft off. Make all those newbie mistakes that some of us are willing to admit. Loose some gelcoat, your lunch, and a little bit of pride. After a few years if you still love it, trade up for bigger prizes.
> 
> Don


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Paul,
What you'll find here is that most people try to give a cold jolt of reality to those who come here asking if the $3,000 40'er they saw on Craigslist would make a good home. Or the people who say "I've had it and I'm just going to sail away". Most of us agree with the romantic view of sailing - it's why we got into sailing too - but as I'm sure you know from your Bayliner, boat ownership isn't always easy. And living aboard isn't for a lot of people. We see it over and over - people come here saying "hey, I just bought a 40' Hunter (no offense Smack!) as my first boat and my family and I are going to live aboard." They spend their life's savings on the boat, and then 6 months or a year later, they decide it's not for them, they have had enough, and want out. But the boat market sucks, so now you have a bunch of unhappy people who have exhausted their savings and are stuck living in less than 300 square feet for God-only-knows how long until they can sell their only asset which depreciates more and more with every passing day because they don't want to put the money into maintaining it. So, yeah, some of us can be a little cynical, skeptical, and outright negative at times.

In your case, it sounds like you've thought this through more than many who come here. Your experience with boating and living in an RV also helps a lot. At least you know what it's like to live in a small space for a long time.

Good luck!


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

jimgo said:


> Paul,
> What you'll find here is that most people try to give a cold jolt of reality to those who come here asking if the $3,000 40'er they saw on Craigslist would make a good home. Or the people who say "I've had it and I'm just going to sail away". Most of us agree with the romantic view of sailing - it's why we got into sailing too - but as I'm sure you know from your Bayliner, boat ownership isn't always easy. And living aboard isn't for a lot of people. We see it over and over - people come here saying "hey, I just bought a 40' Hunter (no offense Smack!) as my first boat and my family and I are going to live aboard." They spend their life's savings on the boat, and then 6 months or a year later, they decide it's not for them, they have had enough, and want out. But the boat market sucks, so now you have a bunch of unhappy people who have exhausted their savings and are stuck living in less than 300 square feet for God-only-knows how long until they can sell their only asset which depreciates more and more with every passing day because they don't want to put the money into maintaining it. So, yeah, some of us can be a little cynical, skeptical, and outright negative at times.
> 
> In your case, it sounds like you've thought this through more than many who come here. Your experience with boating and living in an RV also helps a lot. At least you know what it's like to live in a small space for a long time.
> ...


Jimgo,
I appreciate any feedback. I also do not dismiss anyone's advice. I understand the misgivings some of you have, the doubt, the reluctance to believe, etc. 
I feel like I'm fairly lucky. My job allows me to work as much, or as little as I like, and the work is everywhere. In that I find quite a bit of solace. If I am wrong, if I sink the boat, if it turns out I really did want the "American Dream" instead of some freedom and amazing stories, it will be very easy for me to return to a more normal life. But normal life....it even sounds horrible....


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

So, for the _*third*_ time, where will you be going?

No one is discouraging. Go for it, Dude! We all believe in the dream!

Now fill in the facts, so we can root for you, and live the dream vicariously through your exploits!

Oh, and we have pointed out two Tartan 34s for you - tell us what happens when you contact the owners. Take some photos, too...you know the old saying, it didn't happen if there are no photos!


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

Where will I go?

I will hang out where I find the boat then head for Florida as I begin to get proficient at sailing. Then I plan for the islands and the South American coast. Eventually Australia. Someday, with god willing, around the world. East coast plan, haven't come up with a west coast plan, but I'm sure it would be similar.
Of course, plans change, and I love to wing it....


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## jmandre (Dec 13, 2013)

Go for it Paul. I'm relatively new here too (mostly a lurker), but we have a few things in common. Grew up around boats, but never owned a sailboat before. Found one last year that spoke to me (an old Balboa 8.2), moved aboard within a month and have been living aboard full-time and refitting her ever since. Great old boat, Lyle Hess knew what he was about with small sailing craft. No one ever has it all figured out, and the long-timers here are certainly on the money with cold doses of reality. But at the risk of sounding like the Pardeys, if you're self sufficient and determined you can go anywhere. Good luck with your hunt!


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

So there is one I really like on yachtworld. 78 tartan 34, peconic bay Ny. I tried posting a link, didn't take. 
Any thoughts or opinions? 
There is also one I found for 6500. It's a fixer upper. Not sure that's the way to go though. I think it was on sailboatlistings.com.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

PGehrke said:


> Any thoughts or opinions?


Um...pick up the phone and call the seller/broker, or send an e-mail...then post the response here.

You do plan to contact the seller, right?

Or, do you just want to talk about buying a boat, for the fun of it?


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

jameswilson29 said:


> Um...pick up the phone and call the seller/broker, or send an e-mail...then post the response here.
> 
> You do plan to contact the seller, right?
> 
> Or, do you just want to talk about buying a boat, for the fun of it?


Oh, I like you.....

The fixer upper:

"hey paul

thats really all the pictures i have- if you want to see something specific, let me know and i will take some more next time i go down. it was painted 3 years ago which is the last time it was out, so no i don't have any pics on the hard
thx"

And...

"the thing is, the boat is ready to sail right now- you dont' need to do anything.

that being said- there are things you could do to make it more pleasant.
cushions, curtains, new headliner if you want, i would def paint the cockpit, the old paint is starting to peel.
the bathroom sink could use a new surface (i may do this this week). i would re-caulk the entire toe rail.
the soft spots on the deck, you don't need to do anything about that now, but you should eventually. next year or so
thats about it.

ill give you any info you want to know about the boat, i hope i can sell the boat before july rolls around- interest has picked up since it finally started getting warmer around here"


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## jmandre (Dec 13, 2013)

If what the owner says is backed by a survey and all the basics are sound (hull, etc), the fixer upper sounds like a solid functional project boat. Mine fell into the same category and I haven't been sorry, but I also thoroughly enjoy refitting old machines/vessels. 


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

jmandre said:


> If what the owner says is backed by a survey and all the basics are sound (hull, etc), the fixer upper sounds like a solid functional project boat. Mine fell into the same category and I haven't been sorry, but I also thoroughly enjoy refitting old machines/vessels.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Some work doesn't bother me at all. How much would I pay for a survey?

There is a thread on here about people willing to look at a boat for you and let you know if they think it's even worth getting a survey. Can't PM people yet though....


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

Then there is this boat...

1978 Tartan 34 -C Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

This one I like, but what exactly do I ask the man? Emailed him, seemed nice enough, but he would rather talk on the phone. I honestly don't even know what to ask him. Give me a few things and I will get right on it.

Fixer upper:

1971 Tartan 34C sailboat for sale in Maryland

If I get a fixer upper, I'll end up with something nice, but how much is it going to take to get this boat to comparable shape as the other? More than the price difference now?


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## jmandre (Dec 13, 2013)

Cost of a survey varies from what I've seen, but mine (for a 27 ft boat) ran in the neighborhood of $400.


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## jmandre (Dec 13, 2013)

For me at least (given my nature) it was worth getting somethjng that needed work. It's giving me a chance to go through every inch of the boat and refit to my wishes. So once I'm done the boat is solid and comfortable and very much 'mine'. But fair warning, I'm looked at by many as an odd bird. Most folks want to toss the lines and just head out, and that's ok too. Think carefully before you jump into a known project. If it's not the sort of thing you enjoy, you'll hate every minute of it. 


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## jmandre (Dec 13, 2013)

But in doing it the way I have, I got a solid boat dirt cheap and that extra money gets spent where and how I think it is best applied. 


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

jmandre said:


> For me at least (given my nature) it was worth getting somethjng that needed work. It's giving me a chance to go through every inch of the boat and refit to my wishes. So once I'm done the boat is solid and comfortable and very much 'mine'. But fair warning, I'm looked at by many as an odd bird. Most folks want to toss the lines and just head out, and that's ok too. Think carefully before you jump into a known project. If it's not the sort of thing you enjoy, you'll hate every minute of it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I love projects. Built my own house. By myself. From the foundation to the carpet.
I also want to get sailing however. He says it is in sailing condition. Of course I could always buy the project and a small boat or just go to a sailing school, I imagine there would be a sailing school nearby....

It seems they all need work.

I'm torn. I'd like to call on the other one as well, but like I said, what do I ask?

I will definitely get a survey on any potential boat. Just have both surveyed and go from there?


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## jmandre (Dec 13, 2013)

That's a solid approach (both surveyed). Expensive sounding, but could save you major money and heartache later. And same here, just finished building my own house and shop. Once I finish refitting this little girl, I plan on laying out a lofting floor and laying the keel for a larger boat by next year. I'll let some of the others hopefully weigh in on some basic questions to ask, but my concerns were 1) general information on the boat model and it's reputation and performance, 2) hull condition (any repaired damage known, etc), 3) rigging and sail condition, 4) mechanical systems condition (powerplant). But I'm also very good with motors, so there is very little that scares me when it comes to this kind of thing. Marine mechanics and equipment can be very expensive if you have to hire out work. 


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

Just got off the phone with the guy that has the nicer of the two. Man has owned the boat for 18 years. Claims there is nothing wrong with it other than cosmetic things. I guess all the wood topsides (brightwork?) needs refinishing, has very new sails, strong running original atomic 4, new fuel tank, rigging in excellent shape, shower, hot water heater (electric/engine), authohelm. Loves the boat, getting rid of it because children are starting college/no time I guess.

Sounds like it is in good shape to me, he is willing to find a surveyor and get me in touch with them.

$15,000. What do you guys think?


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## jmandre (Dec 13, 2013)

If it's in your range I'd say go ahead with the survey, sounds like a nice boat.


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

jmandre said:


> If it's in your range I'd say go ahead with the survey, sounds like a nice boat.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Would it be possible for you to give me an idea, money wise, what you think it would take to get the fixer upper into comparable shape? I understand it would be a very rough guess based solely on pictures from the postings.


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## jmandre (Dec 13, 2013)

I honestly wouldn't. It so subjective, it just depends on the actual condition of the boat. Every owner has their own idea of what constitutes 'sailing condition'. The survey is what will tell you how much or little you are looking at to get her sailing. It could be that she's ready this minute, there's just no way of knowing until a professional lays eyes on her


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

PGehrke said:


> strong running original atomic 4,


Ask your surveyor and insurance company about this.


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## desert rat (Feb 14, 2013)

Is the A 4 fresh or salt water cooled (perhaps only a shell)? How does the diesel start and run(compression)? If freshwater cooled A4 and good compression on the diesel then you have 8 K to repair the soft deck. Not a lot of difference. If you can't do your own survey hire a credentialed surveyor of your own.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Atomic 4s are gasoline engines.


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

Sorry needed 1 more post to PM people. There are two boats in the running. Would like to see if anyone is interested in looking at them for, before I get a survey. Found the thread "Local 
boat buying assistance" or something to that effect. Now 
I can PM some people...


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## Keetur (May 28, 2014)

Do you know how to sail?


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

Keetur said:


> Do you know how to sail?


No sir, I do not.


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## jmandre (Dec 13, 2013)

You will...


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## Dave_E (Aug 7, 2013)

Welcome to the forum!


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

I know you said you are a power boater, but might I suggest perhaps taking a weekend course to first determine if you even like sailing? It's kinda more work to get from Point A to Point B under sail and you can probably comfortably jog faster than your boat will move. It isn't for everyone.


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

DRFerron said:


> I know you said you are a power boater, but might I suggest perhaps taking a weekend course to first determine if you even like sailing? It's kinda more work to get from Point A to Point B under sail and you can probably comfortably jog faster than your boat will move. It isn't for everyone.
> 
> Is a T34 the right boat for a trip to Australia? I thought it was more of a coastal cruiser.


I drive a 69 Landcruiser. I understand slow and more work. Kinda what I'm after. I do appreciate the input though, keep it coming. I tend to do a lot of reading research etc. I'm pretty confident it will suit me.

As to the Australia thing, I believe it would do just fine. There are so many varying opinions on this subject it is impossible to tell. I have read about Tartan 34's crossing oceans though. That trip will be far, far down the road I'm sure.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

PGehrke said:


> ...
> 
> As to the Australia thing, I believe it would do just fine. There are so many varying opinions on this subject it is impossible to tell. I have read about Tartan 34's crossing oceans though. That trip will be far, far down the road I'm sure.


Yeah, I edited that out of my post. Didn't have the energy to moderate that potential war of words.

You're right, it probably could get you there and I'm glad to hear that it's a "far, far down the road" goal.


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

So there are two boats in the running. Still trying to get in touch with one owner. Haven't had any luck finding someone close to either to look at them for me though. If anyone knows someone who wouldn't mind doing so, one is in Peconic, New York. The other is in Arnold, Maryland. Thanks everyone.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

Tartan owners usually keep up with other nearby Tartans. You might PM T37Chef (Shawn) and see if he's familiar with the Tartan in Arnold.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

DRFerron said:


> I know you said you are a power boater, but might I suggest perhaps taking a weekend course to first determine if you even like sailing? It's kinda more work to get from Point A to Point B under sail and you can probably comfortably jog faster than your boat will move. It isn't for everyone.


Why are you trying to destroy his dreams?

Are you kidding? Taking a weekend course before selling everything, taking up an activity he has never tried, and completely altering the course of his life? What a burden - that seems awfully harsh on a newby!

Come on, we are the ambassadors of sailing! Sailing is sinking like a bowling bowl in the ocean. We need to encourage the new sailors! 

After all, how hard can it be? You trim the sheet til the sail stops luffing and away you go!

If he gets into trouble, he calls the Coast Guard and gets a free tow into port, or a free helicopter ride to the nearest port! Then, I am sure they will fly him out to his boat and help him get re-situated onboard.

Let's all encourage him! Perhaps he can bring his small children, grandmother, and dog aboard for their first circumnavigation! What an adventure while we lousy armchair sailors fret over details, like knowing what we are doing!


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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

jameswilson29 said:


> Why are you trying to destroy his dreams?
> 
> Are you kidding? Taking a weekend course before selling everything, taking up an activity he has never tried, and completely altering the course of his life? What a burden - that seems awfully harsh on a newby!
> 
> ...


Uh...


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## desert rat (Feb 14, 2013)

Thou art a vile and dispicable crew, if you don't take orders I will have you keel hauled. 
Now understand after I manage to buy my first boat I am going to mount a long 9 and 
come looking for you.


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## jmandre (Dec 13, 2013)

Arrrhh....


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

PGehrke said:


> Uh...


Yeah. 

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## PGehrke (May 22, 2014)

Found another boat I would like to have checked out. Anyone know of someone in/around Boston? Weymouth to be more precise I guess. Sent out a few pm's haven't heard from any of them.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

PGehrke said:


> Found another boat I would like to have checked out. Anyone know of someone in/around Boston? Weymouth to be more precise I guess. Sent out a few pm's haven't heard from any of them.


:laugher:laugher:laugher



:laugher:laugher:laugher

uke


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Don't mind jameswilson29. The doctor's appointment where they were supposed to up his meds got postponed another week.

I bought my first boat (31ft sloop) not knowing how to sail either. Best decision I ever made. It sounds to me like you have the right background and attitude. ALL of us didn't know how to sail once.

As you were. 

Medsailor

Brevity and typos are courtesy of my Samsung S4 Active.


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