# Open Transom trend



## crow551 (Mar 3, 2009)

I have noticed a trend toward open transom boats in the new models. Am I the only one that thinks that this is a bad idea? Racers started using them because it is self bailing and reduces weight, but what are the advantages for a cruising boat? Does it just look cool? I have a number of concerns including:

Safety - Isn't someone going to get washed overboard?
Following seas - See my first concern.
Environmental - Every piece of junk in the cockpit is going to wind up in the ocean.


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

crow551 said:


> I have noticed a trend toward open transom boats in the new models. Am I the only one that thinks that this is a bad idea? Racers started using them because it is self bailing and reduces weight, but what are the advantages for a cruising boat? Does it just look cool? I have a number of concerns including:
> 
> Safety - Isn't someone going to get washed overboard?
> Following seas - See my first concern.
> Environmental - Every piece of junk in the cockpit is going to wind up in the ocean.


yeah, that's pretty much my take on them too. Accident waiting to happen if you have kids.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

I love em. It's fast. 
If someone is going to get washed overboard, it's b/c they aren't tethered in. No one gets washed off the BACK of the boat, almost always the side. 

The TP52 has an open transom, the Antrim 27, minis, open classes, and many others designed specifically to go from California to Hawaii (typically a downwind ride) all have open transoms. 

If you have kids they should be in a PFD as the law states, or down below. Or better yet, watched by a responsible parent. Call me crazy, but that shouldn't be a big issue for boat designers, the safety of unattended children in the cockpit.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

My friend has a Dehler 33 with an open transom that was designed as a cruiser/racer. It has a great feature that solves this issue. The boat has a custom designed removable locker that can be installed across the aft end of the cockpit, converting it from an open transom boat into what is basically a standard transom boat with a swim platform. I'm surprised more companies don't do this with their open transom designs. 

I agree with the OP about his three points and think that for a CRUISING boat, it doesn't make much sense.


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

Open or Walk-thru transoms are great. I'm actually surprised more newer boats don't have them. Here's my take. As slip space becomes less and less available we will begin to see more of a Med. mooring type of setup. Having a walk-thru allows the crew access on an off a boat much easier because fingers won't be there. Also access to swim platforms really make the boat much more fun. On my boat the walk-thru has doors and life lines to prevent accidental MOB situations. As far as trash blowing overboard. It happens with or without a open transom.


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## crow551 (Mar 3, 2009)

Brezzin, If you can close the transom then like in your case then I am less concerned. I would not consider that an open transom, but a door to your swim platform. As for trash going overboard, I don't like your response. It shouldn't happen. 

I have no problem with this feature on race boats with everyone leashed in, but on a cruising boat I am not going to be harnessed to be the boat all the time.


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## dnf777 (Jun 23, 2007)

A netting should solve the problem of MOB.
Not sure I see the advantages. Saves weight? Then take off the sides and bow, and get a windsurfer? They do look cool though.


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## tweitz (Apr 5, 2007)

I like the open transom. It does self bail instantly and there is no concern about dirt in the scuppers leaving you with a wallowing boat with a filled cockpit, or with a hose clamp coming loose and causing the cockpit to drain into the bilge. It makes it infinitely easier to safely board the boat from the dinghy and also to get someone aboard in an MOB situation. We sail with a small dog and small grandchildren. When they are aboard I tie a fender under the folding helmsman's seat, and there is no room for them to go overboard. Both the kids and dog always were a PFD, and in rough conditions all should be tethered. I suspect that those who are worried the open transom will cause the boat to be pooped have never experienced that phenomenon. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has.


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

crow551 said:


> I have no problem with this feature on race boats with everyone leashed in, but on a cruising boat I am not going to be harnessed to be the boat all the time.


I suspect that, other than serious offshore shorthanded racing, you'll seldom see "everyone leashed in". Serious weather would, of course, be an exception but then everyone ought to be clipped in regardless of boat styles.

Open transoms are without question fast draining, this is an issue that was often a big deal with production boats; scuppers were rarely adequate to safely get rid of a serious amount of water.

Getting in and out of, and loading and unloading, dinghies is much easier with the stern platforms that are part of these designs. This is especially true now that boats' freeboards are becoming so extreme. I realize stern platforms are possible without open cockpits, but those ones are generally a bit small comparatively speaking.

And as mentioned, the stern-to mooring practices is another area where these work well....

I'd have no qualms having one of these boats.


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

zz4gta said:


> I love em. It's fast.
> If someone is going to get washed overboard, it's b/c they aren't tethered in. No one gets washed off the BACK of the boat, almost always the side.
> 
> The TP52 has an open transom, the Antrim 27, minis, open classes, and many others designed specifically to go from California to Hawaii (typically a downwind ride) all have open transoms.
> ...


So where do you sail with such clement weather that you NEVER get water sluicing down the deck? And since when will a PFD act to keep someone in the boat? FWIW, if and when you have kids you'll see that removing barriers to keep them on deck is a bad idea regardless of how "responsible" you happen to be. I'd rather not rely SOLELY on a tether to keep me and mine aboard.


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## speciald (Mar 27, 2007)

Another problem with these boats is that the deck on some continues at the same level into the cabin (see the new Moody for an example). So you don't just have to worry about a boarding wave flooding the cockpit but the cabin as well.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

_"So where do you sail with such clement weather that you NEVER get water sluicing down the deck? _

Its not where you sail, but what you sail. If you sail modern boats you almost never have water slucing down the deck, at least not aft of the leeward shrouds.

_"And since when will a PFD act to keep someone in the boat?"_ 
When its an inflatible with a harness which is teathered to the boat. Corm, You need to spend more time with modern boats and hardware- Trust me on this..
  
Seriously, I have mixed emotions on the open transon on a cruiser thing. I love the idea of having really a really big way to drain the cockpit without having seacocks, especially in winter. But I also hate giving up the security of the wrap around cockpit, and the structural aspects of the transom solidly crossing the stern, and the rudder post extending all the way to the top of the cockpit seat level. I do think there is an issue with things rolling or sliding out the opening. (They may not blow out or even roll, just slide, as in winch handles don't blow over the side).

But I am also bothered by the extremes we go through to avoid percieved 'inconvenience' . It drives me crazy that the award for innovative hardware went to a motorized winch made in range of sizes that includes small enough for small boats, and that has one button that can ease and another to sheet in, saving the inconvenience of having to actually handle the sheet. It drives me crazy to hear salesmen hawking the absense of a bridge deck or mid-boom mainsheeting or arch mounted travelers because they avoid the inconvenience of stepping over something that is knee high. At some point we need to admit that one of the joys of sailing is doing something which is not always convenient. And yes your are right I do sound like a curmudgeon, what of it....

Jeff


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Open end of the boat----too large a hole for me. I dont need my feet wet by the sea washing in from behind.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The inconvenience of stepping over a bridgedeck or a transom might just be the difference between having a seaworthy boat and a dock queen.


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

Jeff_H said:


> _"So where do you sail with such clement weather that you NEVER get water sluicing down the deck? _
> 
> Its not where you sail, but what you sail. If you sail modern boats you almost never have water slucing down the deck, at least not aft of the leeward shrouds.
> 
> ...


 :laugher



> But I am also bothered by the extremes we go through to avoid percieved 'inconvenience' . It drives me crazy that the award for innovative hardware went to a motorized winch made in range of sizes that includes small enough for small boats, and that has one button that can ease and another to sheet in, saving the inconvenience of having to actually handle the sheet. It drives me crazy to hear salesmen hawking the absense of a bridge deck or mid-boom mainsheeting or arch mounted travelers because they avoid the inconvenience of stepping over something that is knee high. At some point we need to admit that one of the joys of sailing is doing something which is not always convenient.


A point to which I totally ascribe.


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## billyruffn (Sep 21, 2004)

sailingdog said:


> The inconvenience of stepping over a bridgedeck or a transom might just be the difference between having a seaworthy boat and a dock queen.


Thus we can explain the Rep Pwr 9 that SD doth possess.


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

billyruffn said:


> Thus we can explain the Rep Pwr 9 that SD doth possess.


42 billion posts doesn't hurt either.


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## RealityCheck (Jun 2, 2007)

Some people just do not like *change* and never will. My Grandfather never bough a car with an automatic transmission and my great granddad though cars were a bad thing and stuck to mules and such. Designs move on and are driven by many factors.

The boats with aft openings into the cockpit have been in use for many years..... almost every charter (80 to 90%) have open cockpits.... think you could also consider all cats having them.

My boat has one and went though a couple of hurricanes with no water in the cabin and no reason for concern on the mooring with 105 MPH winds and very confused seas coming in all directions at the same time. She was dry as a bone.

Although no by choice I've had following seas over 7 feet pass under me on a trip to the Spanish Virgins... got a wet heal on right foot once. In heavy seas you ALWAYS put your companion way board up, but I've never had water enter the cockpit except for when I drip it coming from the swim platform. I personally would never want the hassle of getting aboard a boat with out one unless it was tied up to a dock....... as has been said before.... that could be one reason people who know what they want in a boat often exclude those that are difficult to get in from the water.

Everyone has preferences..... in the Carib it is very clear what that is as far as transoms go.

But each to his own.... my great granddad would probably still have his mule if he were still around.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

As for me, I'll buy an open transom boat when they come in a center cockpit layout


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

sailingdog said:


> My friend has a Dehler 33 with an open transom that was designed as a cruiser/racer. It has a great feature that solves this issue. The boat has a custom designed removable locker that can be installed across the aft end of the cockpit, converting it from an open transom boat into what is basically a standard transom boat with a swim platform. I'm surprised more companies don't do this with their open transom designs.
> ...


Many boats have them for the ones that want them: J 122, JPK 110, Salona, Hanse 400. Others have a back bench that serves as a seat and partially close the boat among them First and Elan yachts. If you have kids you can use a net to close the remaining open space.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Anytime something has been lost overboard, it's gone over the side, not out the back. Usually it's the butter fingers of a crew member that loses the winch handle, gps, phone, so I don't see how a closed transom has anything to do with it. Locking winch handles always make me chuckle, they never "magically" fall overboard, it's when the human element is molesting one that causes the tragedy. 

And yes, a PFD with tether will keep someone on board better than your grasp or that of the jolly green giant. 

I still stick to my statement kids should not have the run of the boat relying on lifelines, netting, or a boats design to keep them on board.


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## luken7 (Oct 27, 2009)

We have a Beneteau 361, open transom. So far I have lost a radio and a leatherman, but still love the open transfom for boarding and water access.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

This is the same to me as full vs fin keel, marconi vs fractional rig, center vs aft vs deck salon........... or the footed vs non footed main,,,,,,


Take your pick, choose you postives and negatives, and move on from there!

Marty


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## mikehradecky (Jan 24, 2011)

Small dogs and little ones can easily slip through that opening. It's a nagging fear on my boat. I plan on putting some netting across that opening. However, the sugar scoop and open transom are a nice feature. All things in equal measure.


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## cruisingdream (Feb 7, 2007)

Love the open transom.... makes it easier for pirates to board in the middle of the night


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## sailordave (Jun 26, 2001)

> It drives me crazy that the award for innovative hardware went to a motorized winch made in range of sizes that includes small enough for small boats, and that has one button that can ease and another to sheet in, saving the inconvenience of having to actually handle the sheet. It drives me crazy to hear salesmen hawking the absense of a bridge deck or mid-boom mainsheeting or arch mounted travelers because they avoid the inconvenience of stepping over something that is knee high. At some point we need to admit that one of the joys of sailing is doing something which is not always convenient. And yes your are right I do sound like a curmudgeon, what of it....


Ah-YUP. Couldn't agree more. It's all part of the "dumbing down" of sailing to make it easier and easier for people w/ more $$$ than Sense to go out on the ocean. Blame the marketing people. They want to sell boats and can't sell boats to people who actually have to LEARN seamanship and sail handling skills...etc.

Funny story. A few years back I was at the Annap. Boat show and stopped by the display of XXXXX brand. They only had one boat and I made the comment that I always liked their (old design from the 70's) to which the salesman said "ew, what would you want to sail an old boat like that for; you don't drive around in an old car. Let me ask you what did you drive over here today?"

My response: 1986 Porsche.

His jaw sort of dropped, he said nothing and my GF and I kinda chuckled and walked off.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Open transom boats DO NOT take on water from the stern, the swim step doesn't even get wet.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

AdamLein said:


> As for me, I'll buy an open transom boat when they come in a center cockpit layout


That gives a whole (hole) new meaning to island berth. :laugher


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

I have no experience with open transoms, other than occasionally wishing I had one while trying to manhandle the 80lb dog up the side from the dinghy )
I'm sure that open transoms are more prone to filling from a breaking following sea than a traditional cockpit style boat, but it would drain in a fraction of the time, so perhaps it's a wash (pun intended). I'm sure if I had one I would like it, not sure that I would pick one if I was buying a cruising boat for crossing oceans, for various reasons.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

capttb said:


> Open transom boats DO NOT take on water from the stern, the swim step doesn't even get wet.


Oh, really? Even when, say, running under bare poles, lying to a Series Drogue? (grin)

What would concern me the most, is the lack of a solid rail aft of the cockpit... Some of those spans of lifeline wire across the more beamy transoms out there today don't afford much security, especially when you inject opening gate fittings into the mix... Not to mention, open transoms seem to invariably mean double helms, and they're not for me...










Can't argue with their convenience at anchor, or for shuttling the crowds on and off at the boat shows, and I'm sure they're fine for coastal cruising and motoring down the ICW... But for offshore? No freakin' way...


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

capttb said:


> Open transom boats DO NOT take on water from the stern, the swim step doesn't even get wet.


Haven't left the bay in a while? I have sailed plenty of open transom boats in rough weather and they most certainly do and can take water into the cockpit. Has happened to me on multiple occasions. The benefit though is that it drains out as fast as it came in which I find to be a good feature if other safety aspects are addressed as well..

Open transom boats ship water easier and in smaller seas as the opening is much lower to the ocean than on a closed cockpit vessel. When you get pooped in a closed cockpit the water drains MUCH slower, been there done that. Pro's & cons to each.

I currently don't have an open transom but do actually prefer them for the ease and ability to drain green water faster.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

JonEisberg said:


> Oh, really? Even when, say, running under bare poles, lying to a Series Drogue? (grin)


I think a knowledgeable sailor would use a sea anchor.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Race boats tend to have a a lot of folks in the cockpit, making a large cockpit with an open transom essential. Many heavy duty offshore cruising boats have minuscule cockpits that will not take on much water.


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## CapnBilll (Sep 9, 2006)

I don't know. This was a trend in power boats a few years back to keep folks from having to buy long shaft outboards. Some of em' sunk from being pooped. After a few close calls I got rid of mine. The thing about it draining quickly, is water never leaves as fast as it comes in.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Is this considered open transom? Does it suffer the same criticism the true open transom?

DuFour 40E


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

There is no bay in Dana Point Mainesail, in fact I'm rarely in water less than 1,000 feet deep, perhaps that's the difference. Maybe you can be pooped in shallow water in a lake or a bay.
While I like the new Bene's I'm not a fan of the life lines across the transom either, but only cause there's nothing safe to lean on.
I've been in lots of breaking waves including a recent passage of Pt. Conception in open stern boats. Boats float, breaking or not how can a wave from behind overtake it unless something is holding it down like an anchor?
I thought it could happen when I first started sailing open stern boats, my own experiences say it is not gonna happen.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

In this years Vic Maui, Delicate Balance had to withdraw after being pooped.



> Delicate Balance has no dodger or cockpit shelter. The companionway opens directly into the sleeping area (pipe berths in the quarters and the settees). The cockpit has an open transom. in 35+ years of sailing I have only been pooped once before, but in DB (now renamed Diabolic Bastard by the crew) we were pooped so many times we lost count. The first time it happened I was sitting in the floor of the cockpit sheltering from the wind when a huge wave broke over the side, filling the cockpit up to my neck, and totally soaking the inside of my foulies. The companionway was closed so not much went inside, but later we were hit in similar manner with hatch open as crew members went in or out.


Vic-Maui Yacht Race - Delicate Balance's Story


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

jackdale said:


> In this years Vic Maui, Delicate Balance had to withdraw after being pooped.
> 
> Vic-Maui Yacht Race - Delicate Balance's Story


And what as that to do with open transoms?

As you know, Delicate Balance has withdrawn from the Vic-Maui race due to high winds and equipment failure.

....We were sailing fast under reefed main and full jib when the first of many waves swept right over us, dousing the lee berths.

....Delicate Balance has no dodger or cockpit shelter. The companionway opens directly into the sleeping area (pipe berths in the quarters and the settees). The cockpit has an open transom. in 35+ years of sailing I have only been pooped once before, but in DB (now renamed Diabolic Bastard by the crew) we were pooped so many times we lost count.

The first time it happened I was sitting in the floor of the cockpit sheltering from the wind when a huge wave broke *over the side*, filling the cockpit up to my neck, and totally soaking the inside of my foulies. The companionway was closed so not much went inside, *but later we were hit in similar manner *with hatch open as crew members went in or out.

Vic-Maui Yacht Race - Delicate Balance's Story

Regards

Paulo

Vic-Maui Yacht Race - Delicate Balance's Story


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

capttb said:


> There is no bay in Dana Point Mainesail, in fact I'm rarely in water less than 1,000 feet deep, perhaps that's the difference. Maybe you can be pooped in shallow water in a lake or a bay.
> While I like the new Bene's I'm not a fan of the life lines across the transom either, but only cause there's nothing safe to lean on.
> I've been in lots of breaking waves including a recent passage of Pt. Conception in open stern boats. Boats float, breaking or not how can a wave from behind overtake it unless something is holding it down like an anchor?
> I thought it could happen when I first started sailing open stern boats, my own experiences say it is not gonna happen.


The answer is short steep waves, the type we get off the East coast, in the quick building storms we get. When the boat surfs down the face and the bow hits the trough and slows, the wave just keeps going right into the cockpit. I have personally had this happen to me on multiple occasions so I know for a fact that it can and does happen. I have also been pooped in closed cockpit boats and they drain at a snails pace compared to how fast it came in. Personally having experienced both I much prefer to get pooped with an open transom than a closed cockpit and scuppers. Of course I prefer not to get pooped at all but it can happen and has probably happened to me about 12-15 times over 35 years of sailing in closed cockpit boats.

When we were running back to Portland in 2005 during a pretty good storm I filled the cockpit of our Catalina on multiple occasions on just that one trip. We'd hit the trough, the boat would rapidly slow and poof here comes the water again, usually just the crest and foam but still a decent amount.. Probably not going to get seas that steep or short in 1k feet of water but we do get some short wave periods here and this can create the perfect environment for water entering an open transom boat..


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

PCP said:


> And what as that to do with open transoms?
> 
> 
> 
> > *The cockpit has an open transom.* in 35+ years of sailing I have only been pooped once before, but in DB (now renamed Diabolic Bastard by the crew) *we were pooped so many times we lost count.*


From their blog. I understand that they also took waves over the stern.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Must be REAL short Mainsail, I've only punched into the back of a preceding wave because the boat was SURFING into it and the boat was not slowing down by any means.
And like Paulo I see nothing in the posted link about water over the stern, water over the side is being swamped not pooped.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

jackdale said:


> I think a knowledgeable sailor would use a sea anchor.


Well, if you're suggesting that streaming a drogue might not be the preferred tactic on an open transom boat, you could be right... Otherwise, I would say "it depends" - and all things being as equal as possible for the sake of argument among a wide variety of circumstances, running to a drogue can be a very effective tactic, and often preferable to lying to a sea anchor, IMHO...

That's my primary objection to a design element like an open transom for ocean sailing, when things start to go downhill, it could limit your options... For example, one of the most common problems modern boats experience offshore is a rudder/steering failure... (As Jeff H pointed out, one of his concerns about this trend is the shortening of the length of the rudder post inside the hull - coupled with the deep, high-aspect rudder such designs typically carry, that would seem to be a likely point of failure.)

Now, one of the better emergency steering solutions aboard a higher-performance boat.is trailing a drogue device of some sort. The possibility of having such an option taken off the table due to the risk of boarding seas through an open transom could be, to say the least, "annoying"...

As always, just my opinion, and of course it depends entirely how one is going to be using their boat... Not nearly as much of an issue for coastal sailing - although, as others have pointed out - it is in shallower waters and among stronger tidal streams, where one is more likely to encounter the shorter period, steeper seas that are more likely to make their way through an open transom than the longer period, open ocean swell...


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## glassdad (Feb 21, 2009)

The first time I sailed an open transom boat (a Cataline 36 I think) we dropped the seat that covers the opening overboard. It was not attached securely. This gave us the chance to practice our man overboard drill. We recoverd the seat and learned a few things about how to approach an object in the water.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

jackdale said:


> I think a knowledgeable sailor would use a sea anchor.


Just curious, but why do you think a "knowledgeable sailor" would not use a Jordan Series Drogue. A Series Drogue doesn't create the massive shock loading a Sea Anchor does. It has a lot of advantages that a Sea Anchor does not.


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> Just curious, but why do you think a "knowledgeable sailor" would not use a Jordan Series Drogue. A Series Drogue doesn't create the massive shock loading a Sea Anchor does. It has a lot of advantages that a Sea Anchor does not.


A drogue, deployed off the stern, is used to slow a boat while running with the wind and waves.

A sea anchor, deployed from the bow, is used to stop the boat with bow to the wind and waves.

I recognize that there are advantages and disadvantages to both.

I would not expose a open transom to waves which is what would happen with a drogue. A drogue makes more sense in a double-ender or canoe stern.

Fortunately I have never had to deploy either.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

The Open stern is to make it easier for the Orcas, sharks and Crocs to snack on that boats crew...


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## genieskip (Jan 1, 2008)

I have been in an enclosed cockpit that filled in the open ocean and it is not a particularly pleasant experience. One boat, that had the cockpit scuppers connected to 3/4 hoses, was especially nasty. The cockpit was fairly big and a number of other large waves nearly came aboard as we wallowed, trying regain our buoyancy. I wish i could convert my boat to have an open end that sheds water quickly. As it is I am looking to replace the two 1 1/2" scuppers with something bigger, say 4" or more. 

As far as losing someone overboard through the aft hole, just put some webbing there


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Boasun said:


> The Open stern is to make it easier for the Orcas, sharks and Crocs to snack on that boats crew...


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

Here you have one that offers three solutions, from Open to partially closed, to fully closed. You have only to choose and decide if the others solutions (besides the standard Open one) deserve the money you will pay for them


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Boy! I can see the sea lions of the west coast hauling easily out on that boat.
And you are not allowed to chase them off either, thanks to the tree huggers.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Boasun said:


> The Open stern is to make it easier for the Orcas, sharks and Crocs to snack on that boats crew...


Well, not so sure about that, but we should probably add thieves to that list&#8230; (grin)

One feature of sugar scoop and open transoms many people fail to consider, if you're cruising in a region where security is an issue (which will only continue to become more and more prevalent), they will make your boat a much more enticing target than a neighboring boat that might be considerably more difficult to board from the water&#8230;

In places like Honduras or Guatemala, for example, where boat burglaries are routinely committed by swimmers from shore, a sugar scoop transom can virtually amount to an "open" invitation&#8230;










Sounds like it's become a real problem lately in the Marshall Islands, for instance:



> February 7, 2011 - Marshall Islands, Pacific Ocean
> 
> We've received several reports of theft and ransacking of cruising boats in the Marshall Islands over the last few days. Patrick and Rebecca Childress of the Rhode Island-based Valiant 40 Brick House sent this summary of recent unfortunate events that are tarnishing the reputation of this destination popular with cruisers during the South Pacific cyclone season.
> 
> ...


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## Copprhead (Feb 16, 2011)

I like Bavaria's new "tail gate" approach, for me it combines all the best options for a cruiser:
Closed when at sea, makes you feel safe, nothing can accidently roll out the back. Open when at anchor or berthed, easy walk-through, plenty of space on the "balcony" to lay, sit, shower...


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Wauquiez does something similar... and other manufacturers are following suit - I think the newest Benes have something like this as well.

Shame that Bavaria has produced an otherwise rather ugly boat, though.... (JMO...)

Another issue with Bavaria is that the ladder is now a separate piece that needs stowing, and won't float very well of fumbled while attempting to insert it into the platform. Without the ladder the platform is actually quite high above the water for small dinghy/kayak in-and-out.


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## TSL (Aug 8, 2010)

Like my old Ford Ranch Wagon, the tailgate may be the answer.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Yeah, that's pretty sexy, alright&#8230; But, I look at some of these trends, and can only wonder - Have the twin phenomena of charter vacations and boat show comparison shopping completely warped the perspective of new boat buyers today? Does ANYONE care about engineering/structural issues anymore, or are matters such as how commodious a boat is downstairs, or can the tender be boarded without bending a knee, the ONLY things that matter in today's market?

A fiberglass boat's transom - especially in an era where sterns continue to get wider and wider - is a MAJOR component of a boat's structural integrity&#8230; Couple the absence of that component, with the use of a split backstay that wants to pry upwards and inwards the outboard corners of those sternquarters, well&#8230; a moniker such as "Bendy Toy" or "Flexible Flyer" might not be so far-fetched, after all&#8230;

For weekend/vacation sailing from one marina to the next, I'm sure this sort of stuff is no big deal&#8230; But, for ocean sailing, or even moderate usage over what should be the theoretical lifespan of such a boat, no freakin' way&#8230;


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## Copprhead (Feb 16, 2011)

JonEisberg said:


> A fiberglass boat's transom - especially in an era where sterns continue to get wider and wider - is a MAJOR component of a boat's structural integrity&#8230; Couple the absence of that component, with the use of a split backstay that wants to pry upwards and inwards the outboard corners of those sternquarters, well&#8230; a moniker such as "Bendy Toy" or "Flexible Flyer" might not be so far-fetched, after all&#8230;


This boat has swept back spreaders which already hold the mast, so the (split) backstay is mostly for trimming and doesn't produce as much load as you would expect on more traditional designs.

But I hear you. There's a boat for every purpose.


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## rmeador (Jan 16, 2010)

I like the tailgate idea. That's something I'll probably look for on my next boat (or at least a walk through transom). If properly built (not saying it is), it should be structural when in the folded up position, so that issue is somewhat nullified. I wonder though... for most recreational boats, people put the name and hailing port on the transom. If you fold that thing down, will the CG come and fine you for not having your boat properly marked?


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## PCP (Dec 1, 2004)

JonEisberg said:


> ......
> A fiberglass boat's transom - especially in an era where sterns continue to get wider and wider - is a MAJOR component of a boat's structural integrity&#8230; Couple the absence of that component, with the use of a split backstay that wants to pry upwards and inwards the outboard corners of those sternquarters, well&#8230; a moniker such as "Bendy Toy" or "Flexible Flyer" might not be so far-fetched, after all&#8230;
> 
> For weekend/vacation sailing from one marina to the next, I'm sure this sort of stuff is no big deal&#8230; But, for ocean sailing, or even moderate usage over what should be the theoretical lifespan of such a boat, no freakin' way&#8230;


Generalizations like that does not make sense.

Modern materials are hugely stronger than old materials and permit other solutions than relying on a full stern for structural integrity. Many boats, even performance Ocean going boats, like the Pogo dispense back-stays at all. Even some mass production boats like the Hunters dispense them and I have no notice that they have problems with their masts.

Modern light and stronger materials and good engineering has no adverse effects on life span.

Look at the boats doing this race:

VELUX5OCEANS | the ultimate solo challenge

Some of those very light and apparently fragile boats are 20 years old, have made 3 racing circumnavigations many racing transats and a huge number of other ocean races, were droved to limits and experienced more hard conditions that any old cruising boat during all its life time, and here they are still going strong.

There are so many old Open racing boats that are still strong and seaworthy (but not competitive against more modern boats) that they just had created this race to take advantage of its long life span, providing an inexpensive introductory class to Open60's, the ECO60.

Regards

Paulo


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