# How does a Honda Generator work?



## LakePirate (May 10, 2008)

I'm not really questioning how it works, but more of if it has a generator of some sort that can produce 2000 watts of power off a small gas engine why has someone not figured out a way to make a similar generator that can be attached to the existing motor already in the boat? Is there something to how it works I don't understand. Remember, I'm not an electrician or an engineer.


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## PaulfromNWOnt (Aug 20, 2010)

You can attach a generator to the existing motor. Logistics is the likely answer. The engine in your boat will typically consume far more fuel for a given time than the little honda, plus you'll have to increase the size of the engine compartment to fit the extra hardware. Your engine will already have an alternator that is used to charge the batteries, and that can be replaced with a larger capacity unit which can then be used in conjunction with your battery bank and inverter to produce 110AC.

Commercially available generator systems tend to be less problematic than something cobbled together (as well as cheaper), but there is really nothing stopping you from doing things differently.


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## epaolino (Jun 21, 2004)

The Honda EU2000I has a motor that turns an alternator to produce 12vdc and feeds that into an inverter to create 110vac. The main feature is that the electrical load affects the speed of the gas engine. Also the alternator is sized and geared to the engine. 

If you were to hook up an inverter to your electrical system the alternator will not produce enough power at idle. You whould have to bump up the engine speed to a point that you will be wasting a lot of fuel. But if you are not concerned about the fuel economy and the noise of running the engine and you are willing to manually adjust the engine speed to the electrical load it can be done! Also a large battery between the alternator and the inverter helps.


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## goboatingnow (Oct 10, 2008)

> I'm not really questioning how it works, but more of if it has a generator of some sort that can produce 2000 watts of power off a small gas engine why has someone not figured out a way to make a similar generator that can be attached to the existing motor already in the boat? Is there something to how it works I don't understand. Remember, I'm not an electrician or an engineer.


yes its been done many times, see Balmar etc, then all you need is an external invertor and for $1000s more you have the same system.

Dave


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## LakePirate (May 10, 2008)

The way I understand it is a high out put altenator and a say 450 hr battery bank with a 2000 watt inverter would still not do what a honda ue2000i will do. It seems like what ever is inside the honda could be put on an inboard motor and do the same as the little honda unit. But thats just my thinking. I would like to see inside the honda.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

As you've read, it can be done. Here's the simple answer you asked for. My motor burns 2 gallons per hour, my 8kw onboard gen burns 0.75 gallons per hour.

p.s. My Honda 1kw gen burns something like 0.1 gallons per hour.


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## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

The guy who writes about this stuff for sail magazine once did a comparison chart of cost per kilowatt hour for various sources with amortization of the total costs. The outlet at your marina is like 25 cents per KWH. Solar and Wind is a whole lot more, your main engine can run $5.00 per KWH! The hands down winner for low cost per KWH was the little Honda inverter generators!

I got curious and did a little research on the life span of those things. I found an interesting website by a guy who had been living in a house far off the grid using portable generators for power with batteries and inverters for night time use. He was getting about 1000 hours out of number of different brands before they required too much repairs to be worth rebuilding, and he was religious about proper maintenance. Then he bought one of the little Honda units, for about twice the price. After 5000 hours of really low noise operation he realized they were a bargain!

I was in a rental place one day and they had a long row of portable generators sitting there. I asked the guy if they had ever tried one of the Honda inverter generators. He said a salesman came in, but they were much to expensive. I explained to him that the typical rental generator gets taken to jobsite where it sits and runs at full speed for 8 to 10 hours a day, burning a lot of gas, making a lot of noise, wearing it self out, waiting for someone to pull the trigger on a saw or drill for a few seconds maybe 100 times a day. The Honda would sit there idling away, using little fuel, making little noise, and wearing very little. It would speed up as soon as the load was applied. I'll bet the contractors would love the low noise and small fuel use, and would even pay a little more for the Honda. So it is very likely it will last way longer in that service, easily justifying the premium price.


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## MSter (Apr 1, 2008)

In addition to less fuel consumption, engine hours are also important to me in terms of maintenance. In comparison, the Honda is pennies to dollars cheaper any way you slice it.

One could also argue the Honda is much quieter and does not introduce cabin heat as it is physically outside the cabin. 

So, while you could adapt your engine to generate AC...why would you want to?


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## skippyxxx (Dec 2, 2012)

i have been using honda eu 2000 for 13 years now and i can say beyond a shadow of a doubt, these things are phenomenal. i never shut them down only for oil change. my first eu2000 ran for 30,000 plus hours... you read [email protected][email protected]
the second one close to the same and the third is still running... 17,000 + hr's... i was told by honda they just need a cast sleeve and rings and start them again although i never had them rebuilt. now to be fair i should say they were never off the eco switch and the oil was only changed once a week albeit mostly every two weeks. had i stuck to a specified regiment they could have run several thousand more hours. i still have the old hulls by the way. the eu 1000 are no big bargain and can not be rebuilt. oh, spark plugs were changed about twice per generator, thats it! i would in closing these generators will last a lifetime under camping type situations.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

epaolino said:


> The Honda EU2000I has a motor that turns an alternator to produce 12vdc and feeds that into an inverter to create 110vac.


Actually, it's the other way around - the alternator puts out 110vac, at 13.3 amps continuous the inverter puts out the much lower 12vdc at 8 amps.

Inverter generators use a three-step process to produce electricity. Multiphase high voltage AC is produced by the generator. The AC is converted to direct current by a microprocessor. This DC is then converted back to AC by the inverter.

Read more: How Honda Inverter Generators Work | eHow.com How Honda Inverter Generators Work | eHow.com

It's just like the bigger units for homes, 110vac is the 'easier' output to provide.
That's also why the older, non -" I " versions didn't have 12vdc outputs.


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## GaryHLucas (Mar 24, 2008)

I conducted a little experiment during Hurricane Sandy when our power was out for 5 days. After Irene Costco had a generator sale, scheduled before the hurricane. I picked up a Champion 2000 watt inverter generator somewhat similar to the Honda for $325! Even so I heard about it for the next two years about how I had wasted money on a generator we didn't need because in 30 years our power has never been off for more than a couple of hours. Pointing out that our refrigerator and freezer had easily $500 worth of food that would go bad was simply seen as being argumentative!

The little generator would power the refrigerator or the freezer but not both even though the total watts was easily under the rating of the generator. It would run the frig or freezer with the hot air furnace though, because I coughed up an extra grand when we replaced the old heater, for an inverter operated variable speed blower. It starts slowly and quietly and the generator hardly notices.

I figured that what I needed was a way to store a little power in advance to provide the generator with a little help when a frig or freezer started. I've done lots of motor and generator electrical work and knew that a motor would store electrical energy as mechanical energy by essentially becoming a flywheel. So I purchased a bench grinder to use as the energy storage device. If it worked I'd also replace the lightweight grinding wheels with heavy iron or steel wheels that would store a lot more power.

It didn't work. The grinder didn't help the situation at all, in fact it made it a little worse. I was mystified, I'd seen it work in the past where we started some small motors and then large ones could be easily started up. However I think I now know the reason.

These generators have inverters that put out exactly 60 hertz AC. The 60 Hertz has nothing to do with the engine speed, which is why the engine can throttle down under light loads. So when a large load is thrown on the generator the frequency remains the same and just the voltage drops. In most cases this is preferred. To store energy in a rotating motor you just have to start it up. To get power back out of it though it has be turning faster than the power source so that the magnetic field causes it to regenerate back into the line. However if the line frequency doesn't drop, just the voltage, then regeneration doesn't happen. So an inverter generator defeats the whole idea.

This should however work quite well on a conventional small generator. I wish I had one so I could test it out.

One other thing, for those of you that ran your generators for days. Drain ALL the fuel, and change the oil NOW! Otherwise the fuel will foul the carburetor and the acids and moisture left in the oil will cause corrosion so it won't work next hurricane. WE had to replace both of our generators at work because of this.

Gary H. Lucas


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

I don't want to Hijack this thread, but it seems like it's relevant to the topic.

I purchased a generator for the house that I'm thinking of selling to my neighbor who wants one. 

I'd like to replace it with one for the boat. Looking at the Honda 2000i's I see at least 2 versions. One is called a "companion" and has a 30 amp twist lock plug and a 110v outlet. The other simply has 2 110v outlets.

Would I be correct in assuming that I could plug my 30 amp shore power cable into the "companion" model and energize the main A/C panel on the boat. 

I do have a pigtail that I use that has a 30 amp twist lock on one end and a regular three prong plug on the other end. ( I use it for charging batteries while on the hard) 
Could I use that pigtail to accomplish the same thing on the model with 2- 110v outlets?

I wouldn't be running much of a load. Battery charger, TV, refrigeration , maybe a small fan..or a ceramic heater. I haven't done the math yet. 

Anyone see advantages, disadvantages ... to one or the other model.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Tempest said:


> ...I wouldn't be running much of a load. Battery charger, TV, refrigeration , maybe a small fan..or a ceramic heater. I haven't done the math yet.
> 
> Anyone see advantages, disadvantages ... to one or the other model.


The Companion model was designed to be connected to another unit to have more capacity. I don't see why you couldn't do as you suggest, but I don't really know. The ceramic heater gets my attention. The H2000 puts out about 13amps and I would expect a ceramic heater could take every bit of it.

On my battery charger, I set it for the incoming service, so it doesn't draw too much. The cable may be 30amps, but that's not what the genset will put out.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Tempest said:


> I wouldn't be running much of a load. Battery charger, TV, refrigeration , maybe a small fan..or a ceramic heater. I haven't done the math yet.
> 
> Anyone see advantages, disadvantages ... to one or the other model.


Actually that is quite a load. The EU2000 can only handle 1600W continuous, (for mine slightly less) before they trip off on over heat. For short durations they can do 2000W but to call them a 2000W generator is a tad misleading...

A ceramic disc heater usually has two settings 750W and 1500W. On high this leaves you with barely 100W left over...

Depending upon your battery charger they can also draw quite a bit. As an example, a fairly efficient newer Xantrex TrueCharge 20 draws 4A AC or 480W to produce 20A of DC charge current.... A fan won't draw much but the fridge can..


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## tempest (Feb 12, 2007)

Thanks for that math Gents. It's clear that I'd have to manage the loads to operate devices at different times. Batteries are usually charged by the time I hit an anchorage,( At least the starting battery ) and It's rare that I'd need the heater, So, I problably overstated the continuous load. 

I guess that still leaves me with the decision of the " companion" unit vs the standard eu2000i . I just thought it would be simpler to energize the boat's AC main panel and outlets, rather than run extension cords. I could accomplish that with either unit..with either the pigtail, or my regular shore power cord. With the understanding that I'm not generating 30 amps. or the rated %..


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

The companion, with it's 30 amp is great if you are going to run two units, then you need the 30 amp.
For just one gen, save the money and use the pig tail connection to your boats 30amp shore power.


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2012)

Tempest said:


> Would I be correct in assuming that I could plug my 30 amp shore power cable into the "companion" model and energize the main A/C panel on the boat.
> 
> Anyone see advantages, disadvantages ... to one or the other model.


Plugging into the 30A outlet on the Companion model EU2000i is just fine, as long as you understand it won't provide a full 30A of service when running as a single generator. Connect it to a second, standard model EU2000i for a full 4,000 watt (peak) 3,200 watts continuous power.

Here are the key differences:

Standard model EU2000i:
• 20A duplex 120V receptacle
• 12V DC car battery only unregulated charging outlet
• MSRP $1149*

Companion model EU2000i:
• Single 20A 120V receptacle
• 30A 120 receptacle
• No DC charging
• MSRP $1279*

* Dealer sets actual selling price.

Visit the gen.honda.com site for more details, including a "Find a Dealer" search tool.

[email protected]
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Robert, 
Any chance you can explain what makes the Honda so good as compared to the competition? 
I ask because I'm seriously contemplating a Yahama 2800 as a generator onboard simply because I like the extra amps it can provide, and it's only 200 bucks more than MSRP on the Honda.


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2012)

chucklesR said:


> Robert,
> Any chance you can explain what makes the Honda so good as compared to the competition?
> I ask because I'm seriously contemplating a Yahama 2800 as a generator onboard simply because I like the extra amps it can provide, and it's only 200 bucks more than MSRP on the Honda.


Just to be sure, you're talking about the Yamaha EF2800i? Open-frame inverter model?

Generally, it's best to have more generator power than you need, because you'll often find other things to power later on. So start by figuring out how much power you need now, and consider a solution that would provide some cushion. I am not very familiar with marine A/C systems, but if they are similar to those on an RV, I know 2,800 watts is right on the edge of enough power to start and run a 13,500 BTU system.

The Yamaha does offer more power than the single EU2000i Honda, and while that's an important difference, there are others to consider; two big ones come to mind:

• Portability: Will you be loading/unloading the generator or need to move it around? With a full tank of fuel, the Yamaha is 84 lbs. and 55 lbs. for the Honda.

• Noise Level: How important is noise when using the generator? Decibel measurement are good, but try to listen to both units running at idle and full throttle for a true assessment of noise, vibration, harshness to your ears. The Yamaha is 67-67 dBa, while the Honda is 53-59 dBa.

Both the Yamaha and Honda are well-made units with 3-year warranties. But what good is it if you can't get to a servicing dealer when you need help? I went to the "Find a Dealer" links for both Yamaha and Honda and searched for a generator servicing dealership in the Jacksonville, FL area. For Yamaha, there are none; the nearest is 149 miles away on near Tampa. For Honda, there are 8 dealers with a Jacksonville address. I will bet you get similar results for dealer searches in your region too.

Look at what others are using and learn from their experiences. I'll bet most are using Honda generators, and those that need more power than a single EU2000i model can provide usually get a second one (the Companion model), for a full 4,000 watts of combined power. While it's more $$ than a single 2800 watt Yamaha, you do get significantly more power, less weight, less noise. To be fair, that's two generators to change oil, drain fuel, and service.

Hope this helps...

[email protected]
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> ....The Yamaha is 67-67 dBa, while the Honda is 53-59 dBa.....


I'm pretty sure that decibels are exponential, so this is much more than a 25% increase in noise.

The Honda gens are remarkably quiet. I had a very old Generac home portable genset that would blister paint, let alone make you deaf. I am amazed at how whisper quiet my Honda is.


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2012)

Minnewaska said:


> I'm pretty sure that decibels are exponential, so this is much more than a 25% increase in noise..


100% correct about that.

Going by dB numbers is better than nothing. But, it's really a good idea to listen to the unit (at idle and full throttle) to see how much real irritation, fatigue, etc. you experience.

The grinder on my coffee machine can't be more than 60 dB, but it's got a shrill like cat claws sliding down a chalkboard. 

-Rober[email protected]
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.


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