# A plan for the Caribbean



## stephenolafson (Sep 17, 2006)

Greetings,

My small family and I plan to take a leave from our regular life and spend a season exploring the Caribbean. I am looking for input and discussion on our plan. (a very loose plan right now)

The Plan:
To buy a boat at the beginning of one season (poss. Jan 2020) and sell it at the end of the same season. I plan to buy a ~10yo boat in the Windwards (Grenada, St Vincent). We would spend the next 4-6 months exploring the Windwards, up thru the Leewards and end up in Bahamas/Florida. There we would list the boat with a broker, return to work, and wait for the boat to sell. A one-way route through the Caribbean.

Easy in - Easy out. Right? 

Am I off my rocker to think THIS is a plan?

Steve


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Not a bad plan... But you are having to learn a new boat and shake it down while doing your cruise. If the boat is in great shape and well maintained... why not?


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Good plan....assuming you can find a proper boat.
A longish term charter might be less expensive...and less long lingering hassle.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

RegisteredUser said:


> Good plan....assuming you can find a proper boat.
> A longish term charter might be less expensive...and less long lingering hassle.


I agree. You might even be able to do multiple charters in various areas at just the right time of season. Plus you won't have any maintenance worries and expenses. In the end you just walk away and not have to deal with selling the boat. I've come to love chartering in the winters in various spots around the world. I appreciate that the Captains have the local knowledge and know the special places that would take time for me to find out on my own. No stress in navigating unfamiliar waters too.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

mbianka said:


> I agree. You might even be able to do multiple charters in various areas at just the right time of season. Plus you won't have any maintenance worries and expenses. In the end you just walk away and not have to deal with selling the boat. I've come to love chartering in the winters in various spots around the world. I appreciate that the Captains have the local knowledge and know the special places that would take time for me to find out on my own. No stress in navigating unfamiliar waters too.


Chartering may work and be great for many people. But I like to think that is the difference between a hotel room, rental car or a time share and your own home. All are "lodging products"... and in the case of boats they all sail and have similar features.

I think of my boat as a home... I lived on it for 4 years and have owned the boat for 33 years. While it is a Contest36s it has evolved to be very personalized.

Of course for a sailor who owns a boat and has a deep attachment to it and familiarity with it... sailing in in new places means getting it there. If you live full time on the boat there is where you chose to live. But for many there boat is a recreational activity and they live on dirt somewhere. Like an RV it can be a home you travel with. Or like a rental car it can be something you use wherever you can find one to rent. Cars are not as personalized as homes... and boats probably fall in between.

If the OP wants make the boat more homelike that can't be done with a charter. If they just want a floating rack to sleep in as they tour the Islands a charter may work.

I have little interest in chartering. I'd rather sail to the place with my own boat. But this can be a huge project. I've thought about instead of wintering in the north, wintering the boat in the islands and flying there for cruises and then back to the north for the summer months.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I know some folks who did this on land. They purchased an RV, packed their high school aged kids in for the summer, and drove all over the country. When they got back, they sold it. It was a family trip of a lifetime for them. 

The only reason they didn't rent was they couldn't get what they wanted in a rental. They wrote off the depreciation as their rental cost. 

If the OP is buying used, there is also the chance for some major downtime to deal with normal wear and tear. The time will fly by. 

Think about whether FL is really where you want to end up, in the event you decide not to sell it, or it takes as long to sell as it did for whomever you buy it from. Insurance can be expensive inside the hurricane box, during hurricane season.


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## stephenolafson (Sep 17, 2006)

SanderO said:


> Not a bad plan... But you are having to learn a new boat and shake it down while doing your cruise. If the boat is in great shape and well maintained... why not?


Finding the right boat would be essential. In my searches, there are many ex-charter boats that people have refit into cruising boats. Maintainance and improvements will always be needed but some work has already been done.

I know how the time flies. So, condition at the time of purchase is essential.


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## stephenolafson (Sep 17, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> I know some folks who did this on land. They purchased an RV, packed their high school aged kids in for the summer, and drove all over the country. When they got back, they sold it. It was a family trip of a lifetime for them.
> 
> The only reason they didn't rent was they couldn't get what they wanted in a rental. They wrote off the depreciation as their rental cost.


By my calculations, chartering for 3, 4, or 5 months from a traditional company is FAR too expensive. In the purchase/sell scenario, as you say, the cost of this trip is the difference between purchase and sale price + maintenance. I'm good with that.

I can't find a company that does long-term charter, but maybe there is a boat owner out there, who knows they can't use their boat for a season and is willing to long-term rent it??


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Excellent idea. As well as Grenada look in Trinidad. Trinidad has an extensive range of boat repair operations, you can get almost anything fixed there. Grenada is good to but they are often pretty much fully booked in September October November. 

Remember to allow for hurricane season. So you might think about buying in September and have a shake down cruise around Grenada and Carriacou before heading North in November. If you see yourself in marinas at this time of year factor in A/C. 

Most 10 year old boats will be listed with brokers and show up on yachtworld.

There is a serious risk though you can get hooked on the cruising lifestyle and never go back to being a CLOD.

BTW ignore anybody who recommends you try to earn money doing stealth skippered charters. Get caught doing it illegally and the fines are huge.


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

stephenolafson said:


> By my calculations, chartering for 3, 4, or 5 months from a traditional company is FAR too expensive. In the purchase/sell scenario, as you say, the cost of this trip is the difference between purchase and sale price + maintenance. I'm good with that.
> 
> I can't find a company that does long-term charter, but maybe there is a boat owner out there, who knows they can't use their boat for a season and is willing to long-term rent it??


It's one of those odd things...people continue to recommend chartering over buying for any long term trips. But pretty much everyone who has run the numbers (including me) eventually comes down on the side of buying. There are a few caveats.

I think you need to be able to afford a good boat: one that won't take too much to get on the water and one that will hold its resale value.

I think you need to be aware that it might not sell right away and you won't likely be able to sell it privately.

You need to calculate the total cost of purchase (taxes, licenses, fees, upgrades, tools & equipment etc.) and factor in what you will lose on the other end (brokerage fees, repairs due to survey etc.). After we ran the numbers - considering with the idea we could buy a ~$100,000 boat - chartering anything over 3 months just didn't make any sense at all with rates at ~$4000/week.

We did it with a year-long sabbatical so I won't state 6 months will work (do the math). And we were planning on selling in the exact same place we bought so we knew the market would be similar. (Full disclosure we loved it so much we didn't sell the boat. But after 4 years of ownership I still think we could sell it and come out ahead of what chartering for 6 months would have cost us.)

Go for it. After all its only money :grin


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

stephenolafson said:


> By my calculations, chartering for 3, 4, or 5 months from a traditional company is FAR too expensive. In the purchase/sell scenario, as you say, the cost of this trip is the difference between purchase and sale price + maintenance. I'm good with that.
> 
> I can't find a company that does long-term charter, but maybe there is a boat owner out there, who knows they can't use their boat for a season and is willing to long-term rent it??


If you prefer to buy, that will certainly work. You couldn't have looked too hard, as long term charters come up on the first google. I don't know these guys, but they were the first hit. There were several more. I'll bet most would make a long term deal at a deep discount to weekly rates. These guys seems to charge about half a typical weekly rate, for long term.

Seabbatical Long Term Bareboat Yacht Charter - BVI Bareboat Charters

Something in the mid40s looks to be about $10/mo in the high season. $8k/mo in the shoulder season and your dates are a mix of the two.

There is no doubt the long term charter is a premium to buying, although, it removes all worry, maintenance surprises, insurance, brokers fees, storage fees while waiting to sell, negotiating, opportunity cost of having your capital tied up, and (god forbid) a loss of any kind, etc. I suppose the math somewhat depends on what you plan to spend on this temporary vessel.

Good luck. I'm sure you'll love it, whatever you do. 50/50 odds you don't return to real life.


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

Minnewaska said:


> There is no doubt the long term charter is a premium to buying, although, it removes all worry, maintenance surprises, insurance, brokers fees, storage fees while waiting to sell, negotiating, opportunity cost of having your capital tied up, and (god forbid) a loss of any kind, etc. I suppose the math somewhat depends on what you plan to spend on this temporary vessel.


Good summary. The only thing I would quibble with is that maintenance worries are not eliminated, just the costs. It can actually be harder to arrange repairs for a charter boat if you are far from a base and don't have the authority to approve charges or choose service providers.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

I see that you started this plan in 2011 if your previous posts are indicative of it. Not sure if you mentioned: Do you know how to sail already or is this a buy it and I'll figure it out thing? If the latter, I have to point out that it would add a new variable into the equation and lean it more heavily (in my opinion) into the Dumb Idea side.


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## stephenolafson (Sep 17, 2006)

Donna_F said:


> I see that you started this plan in 2011 if your previous posts are indicative of it. Not sure if you mentioned: Do you know how to sail already or is this a buy it and I'll figure it out thing? If the latter, I have to point out that it would add a new variable into the equation and lean it more heavily (in my opinion) into the Dumb Idea side.


I have been planning this since before even 2011. Life and kids change priorities.

I grew up around boats in BC Canada and have owned a few. We had a Union 36 on the Pacific Coast of Mexico for 10 years. Regretfully sold her.

My boy is 10yo so I'm not retired yet... but life is short and we need to get at it!


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

Many of the sailboats offered for sale down in the islands are by owners wishing to get out of them. They are done with X dream.

If you are OK with the purchase investment and very real possibility of maintaining that boat for a year or more after your trip, then your eyes are open.

It might be easier to find a well found ready to go boat in the US and have it moved to your start location.

The key is a boat that is right and not in need of refitting. You dont want your great tour ro spent waiting for fixes.

Buy a boat that will sell well in the US.


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## stephenolafson (Sep 17, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> There is no doubt the long term charter is a premium to buying, although, it removes all worry, maintenance surprises, insurance, brokers fees, storage fees while waiting to sell, negotiating, opportunity cost of having your capital tied up, and (god forbid) a loss of any kind, etc. I suppose the math somewhat depends on what you plan to spend on this temporary vessel.
> 
> Good luck. I'm sure you'll love it, whatever you do. 50/50 odds you don't return to real life.


Thanks for the info. It's hard to get a real $$ either way.

I am a gamblin' man... and I like those odds


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Another thought, if you buy. I've never owned a boat that didn't throw me a surprise. At the beginning of every season, I truly ask myself, "I wonder what it will be this year?". Even this boat, which I purchased when she was only 4 years old, had a few first season WTFs. Both the engine raw water pump and the potable fresh water pump went.

I think this was because the boat had essentially sat for sale for a while, with very light use. The pump may work the day you survey, but without constant use, they rot. If I were doing what you plan, I would try to focus on boats that are being actively used and lived aboard, in addition to well maintained. I suspect that most you'll find for sale, are just sitting empty and waiting.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

stephenolafson said:


> I have been planning this since before even 2011. Life and kids change priorities.
> 
> I grew up around boats in BC Canada and have owned a few. We had a Union 36 on the Pacific Coast of Mexico for 10 years. Regretfully sold her.
> 
> My boy is 10yo so I'm not retired yet... but life is short and we need to get at it!


Just trying to get an idea of where you're coming from as far as skills are concerned as the advice could be vastly different.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Minnewaska said:


> Another thought, if you buy. I've never owned a boat that didn't throw me a surprise. At the beginning of every season, I truly ask myself, "I wonder what it will be this year?". Even this boat, which I purchased when she was only 4 years old, had a few first season WTFs. Both the engine raw water pump and the potable fresh water pump went.
> 
> I think this was because the boat had essentially sat for sale for a while, with very light use. The pump may work the day you survey, but without constant use, they rot. If I were doing what you plan, I would try to focus on boats that are being actively used and lived aboard, in addition to well maintained. I suspect that most you'll find for sale, are just sitting empty and waiting.


How true this is. Things fail without a warning... and they all fail at some time.... the wrong time. Good idea to carry ESSENTIAL spares and tools... pumps fuses, belts, wire, hose, clamps, filters, oil, fuel, gaskets, and so on. Hard to get down there.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

stephenolafson said:


> I but life is short and we need to get at it!


I am a big fan of the leave of absence/sabbatical approach. I am on one now took another one about 7 years ago. It took me about 4 years before I went back to a real job.

Even if you don't complete your plan exactly as envisioned, there is a reasonable chance you will have some kind of meaningful adventure.

You may get down to the Grenadines and decide just to sail locally, or rent a beach house, but how ever it turns out it's likely to be more fun then sitting in an office/going to school or whatever your family normally does.

I took my last leave of absence to live on a boat, decided big boats weren't really my cup of tea, so this time I am doing a whole bunch of shorter trips. I will likely end up in the keys once winter sets in, but we haven't decided if we are even going to take our boat or if we are just going to tent camp.

I would say, keep the plan a little bit loose, but it sounds like you have a reasonable starting point to work with.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

I don't know how the numbers would work out, but, what about buying a boat in the islands, sail, then put it into a charter fleet? Then you would have occasional access to the boat if you wish.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

Buying a boat in the Caribbean and commisioning it for cruising is so much more expensive and risky than doing the same in the US that it would be financially favorable to do it in the US and have the boat professionally delivered to the Caribbean unless you are right there the whole time. Bringing in items for this could also be expensive if you are charged duty (or a handling fee as in Grenada) as many islands do. 
When you are done, if you haven't bought an American registered boat, you will have lots of headaches selling her in the US. Unless you want to take a huge loss, you could wait years to sell it and that is going to cost you money, as well. Cruising boats do not sell well compared to lightly used weekenders used at home. Ask any broker. I don't care what any owner tells you, there is no such thing as a 'turn-key' cruising boat, even if the boat has just sailed in from a 6-month cruise of the Caribbean. 
If you buy a used bareboat, you could be buying a boat with some serious problems that even the best surveyor cannot detect. The highest paid guy on any bareboat company's staff is the fiberglass/gel coat guy, who can cover severe damage up so the owner never knows about it. I've heard some absolute horror stories about this.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Cap makes some great points.

I suppose the best place to pick up an inexpensive boat would be Florida. And if you are living there you have time to do a thorough search. Once you find the boat you can get the work done in FL by yourself... wise... or supervise others to do it... or sub contract to various marine contractors. That will depend on how much work you need and choose to do. When the work is done you will know what you bought and you can do some local sea trials... get spares and so on and as Cap suggests hire a delivery crew to take the boat to your starting location in the Eastern Caribe. Let the crew do the long sail to windward.

I this this approach gives you more time to select and prepare the boat AND control the cost. If you discovered that boat in the eastern Caribe it would likely cost more to do the work, take longer... and be done without your oversight. And your family can help and be involved in the decisions and the work.

Sure you conceivably can find a boat at the right price in the Caribbean to buy and sail off on and then sell it at a fabulous price lickity split when you arrive in FL. But this is a long shot and not likely at all.

Manage the unknowns and make them more knows. Don't leave to chance what you can control.

I'd love to have Shiva in the Caribe but getting her there is a long sail and a project. I've done it enough times to know I like sailing IN the Caribbean more than sailing TO the Caribbean.

Good luck!


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

stephenolafson said:


> The Plan:
> To buy a boat at the beginning of one season (poss. Jan 2020) and sell it at the end of the same season. I plan to buy a ~10yo boat in the Windwards (Grenada, St Vincent). We would spend the next 4-6 months exploring the Windwards, up thru the Leewards and end up in Bahamas/Florida. There we would list the boat with a broker, return to work, and wait for the boat to sell. A one-way route through the Caribbean.
> 
> Easy in - Easy out. Right?
> ...


Plan is fine.

There is no (as in no) long term charter options afaik.

This plan sounds fine.

You will have to do it legally and pay your taxes on arrival in the USA or you can not sell the boat. Research it.

Do not buy anything sight unseen!!! 
So u will need to fly to Grenada, inspect, fly home, purchase, settle.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

I bought my boat on St Martin from Sunsail and it was Turn-key sail away.

U can do the same from moorins/Sunsail in any island. May is the month they are released from charter

Sunsail had an office in Florida where they ran the sakes side. I think ft Lauderdale.


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## cdy (Nov 10, 2013)

The used sailboat market in Florida sucks - way too many sellers - so as pointed out above - maybe buy in Florida , I think the prices in the islands will be higher - less inventory - you don't want to overpay in the Caribbean and then try and sell in Florida - the way this would work is if you get a hell of a deal in FLA - which can be done - but it might take time - you get into trouble when you need to rush things - there is no reason to overpay


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> ....There is no (as in no) long term charter options afaik......


Huh? You mean other than the one I provided a link to above? As I said, I don't know them, but google provided more than one long term option.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

A great point was made above. If the boat is to be sold in the US, the OP will likely want to be sure to title it and pay any necessary import fees (if not already a US boat) to legally own it in the US. Otherwise, it will need to have a cruising permit and won't be able to stay for sale permanently. I believe foreign vessels need to leave after 6 months.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

The OP is talking about a single season's sailing. 

IN which case buying in Florida is a REALLY bad idea unless they are content with the Bahamas. Going further East involves banging away upwind and upcurrent.

Buy somewhere in Eastern Caribbean and you have a season to explore between Trini and the Virgins. Beam reaching in the trades is good sailing.

As for costs well they want a turnkey boat but if they buy in Trini and they have an issue that needs a professional repair then I am pretty sure it will cost less in Trini than Florida.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

I’m leaving for Antigua after recurrent closures in attempts to get to Florida.
Will point out the following 
Long term storage in Florida is hugely expensive. If you need to wait to get boat sold in Florida you are looking at big money. To sell it will be necessary to keep the boat Bristol for showings and ready to splash for a test sail so in a yard not away from the immediate coast.
Depreciation of charter boats continues by age regardless of use. None are cult boats. When in use unlike private boats of live aboards the idea is to make money so there maybe deferred maintenance. Be very careful. Suggest very detailed survey and everything added to purchase price rather than you DIY as they have the skill set,access and can get things cheaper. Probably cheaper to have them get it to sail away condition then you doing it. Would resurvey after repairs/maintenance.
There will be fewer monos and more multis charter boats available. Think that through. In the US multis will sell better down south and monos up north. 
Economically with a mono better to bring the boat back to Chesapeake or further north to get a better price.
Depending on your skill set may make sense to buy in Florida if you are a DIY type and refit in US. Sail to Morehead and then to Caribbean. Cruise. Sail back to Chesapeake or Newport and sell. No issues with documentation or import/export hassles. 
If you just want to sail buy in trini but document right off. No “not for sale to US citizens while in US waters” nonsense. 
Have friends who have done this. Still spent significant money but had a great time and no regrets.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> Huh? You mean other than the one I provided a link to above? As I said, I don't know them, but google provided more than one long term option.


Huh? You expect I actually read your posts? :grin

OK well having a look at that website the devil is in the detail


> What are the cruising grounds I can enjoy?
> 
> For one week charters are just enough to explore the BVI. Our regular cruising grounds for a month are the BVI, USVI, and Spanish VI (Vieques, and Culibra). For longer than a month we will consider you plans for sailing outside of this area based on your sailing resume. Occasionally we have boats in other places. During the Christmas winds Dec and Jan or Hurricane season July to Nov we need the boats to stay in the BVI.


This means you can only long term charter Feb to June.

No rates on their website so ouch.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

SanderO said:


> Cap makes some great points.
> 
> I'd love to have Shiva in the Caribe but getting her there is a long sail and a project. I've done it enough times to know I like sailing IN the Caribbean more than sailing TO the Caribbean.


I agree sailing your own boat is nice but, getting it to places you want to visit is the hard part. The familiarity with ones own boat systems is a definite plus. But, as the saying goes "Either have all the responsibility or none of it" Works for me. Also local knowledge is a valuable commodity. It's why I have come to enjoy chartering as a way to visit areas that would take too long for me to sail my boat to.
For a number of years I had the urge to sail to the Dry Tortugas. But, when I started to look at the idea of taking the boat south. Looking at various things involved including costs, time and other things needed for the trip I nixed the idea. The urge would not go away so I just booked a trip for myself on a nice Catamaran out of Stock Island and made it happen. Glad I did it and got it out of my system. Did not need to spend weeks heading south, buy a watermaker for the boat and no worries about what is going on back at the house or any maintenance issues involving the boat. Also nice was going below and taking a nap on a tedious windless passage whenever I damn well pleased while others manned the helm.

Then there is the issue of the house. Once had a cruising couple visit me during a round trip they were making from Toronto via the St Lawrence down to New York and back. Halfway during the trip their house got flooded and it was a mad dash for them to get back and they missed a lot of good cruising spots because of it.

Another nice thing is you get to sail on various boats to check them out and even some I would not be able to afford. You can also eliminate ones you want to avoid and check out others. By chartering I have totally eliminated the idea of ever owning a Catamaran though that is what my land luber companion demands we book them for our charters. Deck space is nice but, after a week plus climbing in and out of the bunks (especially in the middle of the night) it gets rather old and has me appreciating my monohull's layout even more. Sailing it into even a moderate sea state is also a pounding experience I could never get use to.

I also found out about the boat I now own while on a charter in the BVI. I had been looking to step up from my Bristol 24 to something in the 30 foot range. I had been thinking about a Tarten 30. The Captain of the boat we chartered who was also a nautical engineer recommended I take a look at a Nonsuch. He had delivered a number of them for a dealer and liked the sturdiness of the boat and simplicity of the design particularly that all the lines came back to the cockpit. Got me looking into them finally bought one and have never looked at another boat since.

We are heading back to the Maldives for a fifth time soon. I could never take my boat there with the time it would take. We are going back mostly because the waters and reefs are some of the best we have seen. We also realize there will come a time when the two day sixteen hour flight to get there may no longer be doable not to mention being able to use the boarding ladder after a fine snorkel. Beautiful clear waters and reefs but, a Yikes in terms of navigation. Glad to have the all Muslim crew take that burden off of my shoulders. Not to mention the fresh fish they catch on hand lines. They also are very willing when I request that make one of their local Maldivian dishes.

Sometimes life is just logistics. I find a charter or two over the winter provides for my sailing needs while keeping stress low and the trip most enjoyable. Something the OP might want to factor in for his plans instead of buying and outfitting a boat only to sell it in the end.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

"Our regular cruising grounds for a month are the BVI, USVI, and Spanish VI (Vieques, and Culibra)."
I really cannot imagine spending a month in these three areas, unless one really wants to drink every bar in the area dry. There just isn't enough to do. A week in the BVI is certainly enough if one is there for the sailing. 
Down island, it's much different. There seems to be a lot less interest in drinking in the beach bars and more interest in the snorkeling, sailing, and dining. I rarely hear anyone claim a visit to any beach bar here as they do Foxy's.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

I’ve never chartered so can’t speak to that experience. But I’ve never been told where I can go, how long I can stay except by various governments, and when to get there or leave.
For me the point of a sailboat is the freedom. I think I would find that distinctly lacking in the charter experience.
Also I live on my boat. My stuff. Boat done to my liking. I know what she can do. What’s working perfectly and what needs tweaking. On a charter boat I would feel like I’m visiting..


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> ....This means you can only long term charter Feb to June.
> 
> No rates on their website so ouch.


I'm not selling these folks and they weren't the only one. However, that timeline is nearly exactly what the OP wanted. I clicked on their fleet and the monthly rates came up.

The more I think about the logistics of buying and selling for 5 months of cruising, the more it makes me nervous. If the OP can afford to take the risk, it could pay off. Maybe it sells fast. Maybe they would decide to keep the boat, if that's a financial possibility. However, the variables could really turn this short cruise upside down and become a royal pita to sell from afar.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

capta said:


> "Our regular cruising grounds for a month are the BVI, USVI, and Spanish VI (Vieques, and Culibra)."
> I really cannot imagine spending a month in these three areas, unless one really wants to drink every bar in the area dry. There just isn't enough to do. A week in the BVI is certainly enough if one is there for the sailing.
> Down island, it's much different. There seems to be a lot less interest in drinking in the beach bars and more interest in the snorkeling, sailing, and dining. I rarely hear anyone claim a visit to any beach bar here as they do Foxy's.


I agree. We stopped at Foxy's years ago and maybe one or two other beach bars over the years. We never saw a need to go back to any of them. Enjoying a drink in a quiet cockpit while watching the sunset beats yelling conversations over the thump ka thumb speakers in some bar. Speaking for myself I also seem to have lost the taste for alcohol laced drinks recently. I was never a heavy drinker to begin with but, did enjoy a glass of wine or rum drink at sunset. This past season I did not even stock the boat with wine as I had done before. I also finished the last of the Vodka and Rum already on board and did not replenish them. Perhaps I'm just getting older maybe wiser too.


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

For the stated length of time this seems like...
1 bird in the hand...1 bird in the bush...or no birds in the bush

Long term, sure, its smart. 
Imo, not so much short term. Downside could be large
The tick is still sucking your blood after the adventure and its hard to remove....without financial surgery


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

outbound said:


> I've never chartered so can't speak to that experience. But I've never been told where I can go, how long I can stay except by various governments, and when to get there or leave.
> For me the point of a sailboat is the freedom. I think I would find that distinctly lacking in the charter experience.
> Also I live on my boat. My stuff. Boat done to my liking. I know what she can do. What's working perfectly and what needs tweaking. On a charter boat I would feel like I'm visiting..


You still have freedom on a charter that is if the Captain wants to have happy customers who will return. A good Captain will ask what you want to do after you board. We immediately tell him want we don't want. No visiting beach bars, no shopping, no picnic lunches on desert sandbars. The we tell him what we want. Basically good snorkeling reefs those with turtles a plus. In the Maldives we might say a swim with the Manta Rays would be nice. In the Bahamas we would like to stop at Staniel Cay for snorkel around the grotto and a cracked conch sandwich for lunch. Others who charter might have other requests. Though as the one paying for the boat you call the shots and the Captain makes it happen if he can. Most usually do and they will get a return booking from us.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I understand why chartering makes sense to someone like Mike. Getting there takes lots of time and money and wear and tear and it's usually not as interesting a cruising around distant islands and so forth. Once you've done the passage several times it's really more boring and a chore. It's great to know you and your boat can do it.

But there are not many viable options to get your boat back and forth from the Caribe from say the NE. Aside from sailing her there is hiring a delivery crew or using a ship transport. Each are viable and expensive. Of course some people like the ocean passages...

Chartering is the most common alternative and works for thousands of sailors... many of whom have boats which are not even up to the passage as they are not themselves... What you miss with chartering is freedom and lack of schedules and the fact that the boat you sail is impersonal... like a hotel room. This reason makes it largely unappealing to me... and perhaps others who will sail down, transport or hire a crew so they can sail in their own "home". I consider my boat my home and it provides all manner of emotional and physical comforts.. plus I know how the boat behaves, and anchors and so on.

Mike makes good points but but not enough to convert me.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

SanderO said:


> I understand why chartering makes sense to someone like Mike. Getting there takes lots of time and money and wear and tear and it's usually not as interesting a cruising around distant islands and so forth. Once you've done the passage several times it's really more boring and a chore. It's great to know you and your boat can do it.
> 
> But there are not many viable options to get your boat back and forth from the Caribe from say the NW. Aside from sailing her there is hiring a delivery crew or using a ship transport. Each are viable and expensive. Of course some people like the ocean passages...


I once looked at shipping my boat to the Virgin Islands. Yeah expensive but, how much more than hiring a Captain & crew? Plus your boat is down there in five days in the same condition as you left it. Not stuck in some marina while you or your hired Captain watches the dockage meter running if there are repairs needed on the trip south. No worries about the boat and the crew getting beat up making the passage. I kept thinking one blown out sail would pay for half the cost alone of shipping. Certainly an option if you are able to balance the cost/reward factors. Plus if you can book passage on the same ship carrying your boat. Bonus!


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

If north of 25N....just keep 2 boats....
Simple, eh


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

On the boat tend to laz in bed with the bride. Put on what clothes are necessary. Don’t worry about appearances when we’re just the only boat in the anchorage. Tend to enjoy the isolation. Just me and the bride. Never went to bars even as a kid. Went to concerts to work as a sound engineer. Been a rare time I bought a ticket. Not a group people person. Don’t like being waited on. The attraction of my sailboat is its mine. Just me, my wife and on the rare occasion family or friends I choose to invite. I never been on a cruise ship either. The whole thing doesn’t appeal. Liquor, being fed and attended too, and pampered isn’t my idea of a good time. I understand most people think I’m a wacko. I probably spend more money to achieve my isolation then I would on constant charters and get to go to much fewer places but I’m not totally alone as there are a fair number of full and part time cruisers with similar views. 
Cruising is the exact opposite of a BVI or St Martin charter to my mind.
Surprisely there are still places in the V.I.s you can be alone. They aren’t on the charter circuit. Same even in St Martin or Bart’s. Even more as you head either up or more easily down the chain. You have a different outlook when you are living on a boat cruising rather than being on a vacation. It’s different having to deal with the day to day in a new place. Going food or other shopping gives you a different sense of an island. You can ease into the local life and culture. Find the restaurants or other things the local use which are off the vacation travelers path. It’s amazing how different it is living on your own boat. I can’t explain how cruising is different than vacationing


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Right now I’m in oriental N.C. it’s cold and miserable. I’m in a commercial anchorage. There’s nothing to do, nothing to see. on Sunday or Monday the boat will head to Antigua. I’ve already pissed away more money than a 7 day charter just getting here. In wear and tear, insurance etc. I’ll probably piss away multiples of the cost of multiples of charters even if I was to charter throughout the world this season. Just dropped a ton on a new generator. My boat is work. It’s not nearly as roomy as a chartercat. Right now I’m in longjohns but cold.Passages are hard and sometimes very unpleasant. There are thousands of downsides to owning a boat and cruising. Thousands of upsides to chartering. Just the logistics of boat ownership and cruising is a PIA. I can’t justify it Mark. Chartering makes more sense at every logical level. But humans are illogical, emotional beings. I love being on my boat. I continue to give up a lot to be on my boat but still feel is worth it.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I like every option, in rotation. Alone time is great. We spent a night anchored off McGlathery Island in ME this past summer. Solitude was awesome. However, a good beach bar works for me too. Last we were at Foxy's (winter of '17), we set a personal best. Three visits in one day (technically). First, that's where I like to clear into the BVI, so a quick arrival celebratory drink was in order... or two. Made dinner reservations and returned to the boat to clean up. Came back for trip #2, had dinner and few drinks and were walking back to the dingy around 8pm, with the other couple we brought on that cruise. Someone says "why are we leaving?" We all looked at each other like we thought we were accommodating each others wishes and spun around and went back. The ladies danced all night, like they were kids again, while the guys had beers at the bar and kept an eye on their safety. Met the crew of a boat that had just made landfall from Europe that day. Limbo guy was doing his thing for free drinks. Foxy holding court by the DJ. Back aboard around mid-night. It was a great memorable time in the islands. 

Then the next day was quiet again.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

outbound said:


> Right now I'm in oriental N.C. it's cold and miserable. I'm in a commercial anchorage. There's nothing to do, nothing to see. on Sunday or Monday the boat will head to Antigua. I've already pissed away more money than a 7 day charter just getting here. In wear and tear, insurance etc. I'll probably piss away multiples of the cost of multiples of charters even if I was to charter throughout the world this season. Just dropped a ton on a new generator. My boat is work. It's not nearly as roomy as a chartercat. Right now I'm in longjohns but cold.Passages are hard and sometimes very unpleasant. There are thousands of downsides to owning a boat and cruising. Thousands of upsides to chartering. Just the logistics of boat ownership and cruising is a PIA. I can't justify it Mark. Chartering makes more sense at every logical level. But humans are illogical, emotional beings. I love being on my boat. I continue to give up a lot to be on my boat but still feel is worth it.


This passage for you has been rough. Mine were never anything like what you are going thru. Sure the weather from LIS to Bermuda was rough... but in 4 1/2 days were were there. Then we wait for a weather window to sail south.. another 7 days.,, Perhaps I had a string of good luck weather-wise. Maybe you had weather which was just not cooperative.

I am waiting to read you've arrived and everything is fine. Take care don't give up!


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## Uricanejack (Nov 17, 2012)

I can’t add anything useful.
Just another dreamer.
I am interested in the idea. By a boat in an area I would like to sail. The Caribbean is on my list of places I might like to sail. But it’s a hell of a long way from here. And I haven’t finished exploring here yet. 

I could charter. I have chartered before. It worked for me at the time. A few charters here and there. Gave me a bit of experience on difrent boats.
I would like to sail the Med. Auz NZ, Uk and possibly the Ne US and Maritime Provincs.
There was a couple on my winter dock last year from Australia. They had a boat down under and had a boat on the coast here they had bought to cruise the PNW and Alaska. I thought it was a heck of a good idea. It was an older cruising boat. But good for what they planned.

When I chartered I always felt I had to get my moneys worth. So sailing from here to there every day often quite long days. Owning my boat I sail if I feel like it or stay if I feel like it. I often don’t go very far. Just potter about. My boat is an old tub, but it’s paid for, so it cost little. The big thing is I have a place to keep it.

I could by a sister vessel. On the east coast. The problem is where could I afford to keep it. So by and sell is a possible plan. 

Budget 30 to 40k for a boat. So an old well used boat. Under 40ft. I can take a hit on depreciation. Realistically where could I keep it for a while at a reasonable cost between trips or when trying to sell.

Ex charter is probably to expensive for me. I prefer my boat to be debt and payment free. 
I looked at the possibility of charter ownership but the numbers don’t add up from what I can see. It still costs a lot.


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

Uricanejack said:


> Budget 30 to 40k for a boat. So an old well used boat. Under 40ft. I can take a hit on depreciation. Realistically where could I keep it for a while at a reasonable cost between trips or when trying to sell.
> 
> Ex charter is probably to expensive for me. I prefer my boat to be debt and payment free.
> I looked at the possibility of charter ownership but the numbers don't add up from what I can see. It still costs a lot.


Although honestly I don't know that much about boats I am not sure where the idea of depreciation comes in with older boats. 4 years later mine is still selling for around what I paid for it. A friend of mine's 1996 Beneteau not only isn't going down in price but is also pretty close to what it was worth new (which is, I know, pure luck).

Sure the maintenance costs are likely higher and you _will_ get hit with big things going wrong. Then again let me tell you about the shingles on my house. I don't know, I am probably an idiot, but I tend to think of older boats more like cottages than like vehicles...if you get the right one.


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## taylorsailors (Mar 9, 2012)

It could be a fine plan. It depends on your goals, though. Are your goals to minimize costs, maximize time on the water, minimize hassles, etc?

We did what you are considering. We bought a 42 ft boat in Ft Lauderdale in April 2012, upgraded it over the spring/summer, sailed off to the Bahamas for 6 mos and the sold it the following July in North Carolina.

We spent 95k for the boat, 30k on repairs and upgrades, and sold the boat for 85k. So 40k for "renting" the boat for about 15 mos. 

If you carefully pick where you purchase and sell, you could do much better, maybe turn a small profit. Eg buy in the DR or somewhere else that a lot of boats get abandoned and the sell it back in Moorehead City or Ft Lauderdale where people are looking for boats to take south.

Good luck! Message me if you want more specifics, etc. We had two kids with us on our trip.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

taylorsailors said:


> ....We spent 95k for the boat, 30k on repairs and upgrades, and sold the boat for 85k. So 40k for "renting" the boat for about 15 mos......


Storage fees, broker commissions, insurance????? Seems to be cost missing from this list.


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## taylorsailors (Mar 9, 2012)

Minnewaska said:


> Storage fees, broker commissions, insurance????? Seems to be cost missing from this list.


Of course. We cruised the boat for almost a year so there were a lot of operational and living costs.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

taylorsailors said:


> Of course. We cruised the boat for almost a year so there were a lot of operational and living costs.


Living costs (food, bar tabs, etc) would be the same whether the OP buys or rents. Commissions, insurance, hauling and storage fees need to be factored into the cost of ownership and the waiting period to sell, which are not the same if they rent.


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## Calmwater (Aug 5, 2018)

Buying a boat for a year only makes very little financial and practical sense. 

Even on a perfect condition 10 years old boat, expect at least $10K in refit etc. it takes time to buy, learn the boat and fix small annoying things so you can fully enjoy a family journey. This alone can take 2-3 months out of your year. 

And say you buy a good cruising 10 y/o boat ~40’, maybe ex charter, say for $100K, your immediate depreciation is at least 10% and when you sell, you pay another 10% to the broker, plus storage, marina costs, insurance etc. that’s before any ongoing maintenance costs for a year that would be at least $5,000 if you’ve found a really great boat with no surprises... 

Bottom line: you’ll pay ~$35,000 for this one year dream.... better charter one! 

Owning a boat makes no sense (well at any case makes no sense ) unless you keep her for at least 5 years, have the time to do a lot of DIY or the resources and time to hire and pay others to do it. You still spend months purchasing, refitting etc but the costs and depreciation are being amortized over 5 years and not one... 

And on the emotional part... I’m aware of it really well - can you really fall in love and enjoy this part in your relationships with a boat that you know, in advance, you’ll depart from, forever, after a year? 

Have a great fun in the year you plan to cruise! If you plan it well, taking into consideration all factors you’ll have even more fun!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Calmwater said:


> Buying a boat for a year only makes very little financial and practical sense. .....


I agree with your point, but the plan is to own for as little as six months. If it sold right away and those odds are pretty small. It could work, but one would have to be able to afford the risk.



stephenolafson said:


> The Plan:
> To buy a boat at the beginning of one season (poss. Jan 2020) and sell it at the end of the same season.


I truly hope the OP figures out a way to have this experience with the family. Beyond a good education, one of the best things you can do for your kids is expose them to new experiences and to create great memories.


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## Calmwater (Aug 5, 2018)

My friend,
For 6 months it is almost 100% clear you'll spend that same +/- $30-35K, a lot of frustration, precious time etc. - it is not a matter of risk, as it looks like 100%...  it is just a matter of using your time and money in a wiser way.

It can only work if you find quickly a perfect condition well reputed make boat at a price that is 30-40% UNDER the real selling price of similar boats.

- how likely it is to find such a deal?.... probably close to zero (more like a negative probability). I am a licensed skipper (for fun only) now on my 6th Cruising/Racing boat since I was 25, all were in 28-45' range, kept each boat 4-6 years. I'm an engineer that love projects, but also fully engaged with my on shore tech ventures - that's my IMHO realistic experience.



Minnewaska said:


> I agree with your point, but the plan is to own for as little as six months. If it sold right away and those odds are pretty small. It could work, but one would have to be able to afford the risk.
> 
> I truly hope the OP figures out a way to have this experience with the family. Beyond a good education, one of the best things you can do for your kids is expose them to new experiences and to create great memories.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

4 years back I met a young couple in the Southern Windwards. They had just bought an old fiberglass 34 ft sloop for less than 10 k. They were looking for help with the engine. I had a look at it and showed them how to bleed it and helped them get it started. WD 40 has many uses!

The engine smoked the sails were baggy and the dinghy leaked. I saw them again a couple of times as we played leapfrog on our way North. They were having a great time. 

They made it to Florida sold the boat and were soon off on some other adventure.

They kept their boat simple, and sailed it carefully. They ate local food, no California romaine but local kalalou instead. They stayed out of bars and marinas. They explored using local buses and shanks ponies. 

They had no insurance on the boat or health insurance. When they did need a doc for a severe ear infection the total cost in Antigua was less than their co-pay would have been in the USA. I told them not to dive in Falmouth Harbor.


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## Calmwater (Aug 5, 2018)

I would maybe do such a froogle cruising when I was in my early 20s... everything is doable. Maybe I've jumped too fast to the tech venture America world and now became too spoiled - or too experienced... I paid for my first 28' , 1970 circa, Dufor $7K, refitted her with $10K (new Yanmar, bottom, all rigging, complete painting and a lot of DIY at a poor men's yard...). Sold her after a year, on the spot, at my rich men marina, for $35K.... -- "Miracles" happen... ?

all my next boats turned the other way - the more common sailors' life....

But this guy wants a 10 years old boat for a young family cruising for 6-12 months. That's a different plan and much higher level of responsibility and hence the costs are at a totally different level.

QUOTE=TQA;2051566968]4 years back I met a young couple in the Southern Windwards. They had just bought an old fiberglass 34 ft sloop for less than 10 k. They were looking for help with the engine. I had a look at it and showed them how to bleed it and helped them get it started. WD 40 has many uses!

The engine smoked the sails were baggy and the dinghy leaked. I saw them again a couple of times as we played leapfrog on our way North. They were having a great time.

They made it to Florida sold the boat and were soon off on some other adventure.

They kept their boat simple, and sailed it carefully. They ate local food, no California romaine but local kalalou instead. They stayed out of bars and marinas. They explored using local buses and shanks ponies.

They had no insurance on the boat or health insurance. When they did need a doc for a severe ear infection the total cost in Antigua was less than their co-pay would have been in the USA. I told them not to dive in Falmouth Harbor.[/QUOTE]


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Calmwater said:


> Buying a boat for a year only makes very little financial and practical sense.


Hang on, when did anything about boats make sense?!

How much is a week charter rate in the Caribbean? $5,000? More? Much more.
And for that you're allowed to go half a dozen islands up and back.



Calmwater said:


> Bottom line: you'll pay ~$35,000 for this one year dream.... better charter one!


$35k... for 6 MONTHS or 1 year!? In April I am paying US$10,000 for 10 DAYS visiting some Pygmy tribe and a few gorillas.

The OP for his money get to sail *his own boat* from Grenada to Florida. Thats a Life Adventure for most people!!!!!!

Plus he gets to pick and chose where he wants to go visit and how to get there, not some charter companies rule of being on the anchor by 4pm.
He has the choice to Island Hop to the BVIs and then... where? Jamaica, SVIs, Dominican Republeic and the old channel to Florida... or a few days at sea going over the whale breeding grounds of the Silver Banks to the Bahamas then gently do those islands to Florida.
None of that could you do on a charter boat with *you* as the 100% Captain Bligh with rum and your naked Christina....

$35,000 is the worst case senario? Cheap! bargain! Sign me up!

But also this dude might buy well and flog it in Florida for a $5,000 loss. That would be a life adventure for 6 months for $5,000. Now that is a bargain. Worth the risk? Sure to be sure!

Many years ago I was in the USA for 6 months and I wanted wheeels.... so I bought a camper van in Washington DC for $2,000 and sold it in LA 6 months later for $4,400.
That was a Life Adventure! :grin

I say the "plan" for the Caribbean to Florida is great. Go for it


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## Calmwater (Aug 5, 2018)

All true... but a good search for a private owner charter for a long term (6-12 months) can reveal outstanding deals for this amount or less. You don't multiple 6 months cost by the weekly Sunsail rates....

[

QUOTE=MarkofSeaLife;2051566984]


Calmwater said:


> Buying a boat for a year only makes very little financial and practical sense.


Hang on, when did anything about boats make sense?!

How much is a week charter rate in the Caribbean? $5,000? More? Much more.
And for that you're allowed to go half a dozen islands up and back.



Calmwater said:


> Bottom line: you'll pay ~$35,000 for this one year dream.... better charter one!


$35k... for 6 MONTHS or 1 year!? In April I am paying US$10,000 for 10 DAYS visiting some Pygmy tribe and a few gorillas.

The OP for his money get to sail *his own boat* from Grenada to Florida. Thats a Life Adventure for most people!!!!!!

Plus he gets to pick and chose where he wants to go visit and how to get there, not some charter companies rule of being on the anchor by 4pm.
He has the choice to Island Hop to the BVIs and then... where? Jamaica, SVIs, Dominican Republeic and the old channel to Florida... or a few days at sea going over the whale breeding grounds of the Silver Banks to the Bahamas then gently do those islands to Florida.
None of that could you do on a charter boat with *you* as the 100% Captain Bligh with rum and your naked Christina....

$35,000 is the worst case senario? Cheap! bargain! Sign me up!

But also this dude might buy well and flog it in Florida for a $5,000 loss. That would be a life adventure for 6 months for $5,000. Now that is a bargain. Worth the risk? Sure to be sure!

Many years ago I was in the USA for 6 months and I wanted wheeels.... so I bought a camper van in Washington DC for $2,000 and sold it in LA 6 months later for $4,400.
That was a Life Adventure! /forums/images/SailNet_Toucan/smilies/tango_face_grin.png

I say the "plan" for the Caribbean to Florida is great. Go for it







[/QUOTE]


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

Calmwater said:


> All true... but a good search for a private owner charter for a long term (6-12 months) can reveal outstanding deals for this amount or less. You don't multiple 6 months cost by the weekly Sunsail rates....


?????

Detailed research of the matter will show that you really can't charter anything for over 3 months for anything under $30,000. It kills me all these people who say chartering is cheaper but who have never tried it. Long-term chartering is just not viable in 90% of the cases unless you want to throw money away. We looked. Trust me, we looked.

Chartering may work for some who are looking for a specific experience (low risk, high cost) but that's not generally what the people (including me at one time) who post these kinds of questions are looking for. Sure, it's a risk, both financially and time-wise, but the whole idea is to go on an adventure, and if part of that adventure is fixing boats in exotic locations, well, isn't that what cruising is all about? I guess if you are the kind of guy who will get frustrated and discouraged by spending a month or two "stuck" in the BVIs or Antigua or wherever while you work on your boat then chartering might makes sense, but really? "Stuck?" In the Caribbean? I had a hoot being "stuck" in Victoria BC over the winter...the Caribbean sounds like heaven.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

The link I provided above had a 40 something ft boat available for long term charter for $8k to $10 per month, depending on which months. They claim their cruising grounds to be from the Bahamas to Grenada. 

There are plenty of pros and cons to owning or chartering and I’m curious which the OP chooses. However, there is an awful lot of mistatement of fact in the input.


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

Minnewaska said:


> The link I provided above had a 40 something ft boat available for long term charter for $8k to $10 per month, depending on which months. They claim their cruising grounds to be from the Bahamas to Grenada.
> 
> There are plenty of pros and cons to owning or chartering and I'm curious which the OP chooses. However, there is an awful lot of mistatement of fact in the input.


$10,000 x 6 =$60,000

This makes any sense to you at all?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MacBlaze said:


> $10,000 x 6 =$60,000
> 
> This makes any sense to you at all?


Geez, Mac, you seem to have a bone to pick. Is it okay to disagree?

The OP said 4-6 months, but you assume 6. The rate is not $10k for each of those months, it is $8k for some. The cost would be substantially less than $60k. If I were to take the opposite approach, this suggests as low as $32k.

You've made me realize that with a charter, you virtually hop aboard and go. Perhaps the time is more efficient, so they don't need to rent for the same amount of time they might own, which requires closings, shakedowns, delivery to the marina where it will be sold, etc.

We have not been told how much the OP is planning to spend on this boat, which I mentioned above. At some point, the costs could look pretty similar. Depends on how big the sales commission will be and how long storage and insurance is being paid, before it sells.

Bottom line, I would expect chartering to be more expensive, compared to a lucky outcome and less expansive to an unlucky one. It's not a gimme.


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

Minnewaska said:


> Geez, Mac, you seem to have a bone to pick. Is it okay to disagree?


Bone? Naw, just bored and I really do think you are wrong (given that I perceive way more downsides to chartering than you do. )



Minnewaska said:


> The OP said 4-6 months, but you assume 6. The rate is not $10k for each of those months, it is $8k for some. The cost would be substantially less than $60k. If I were to take the opposite approach, this suggests as low as $32k.


I don't think $32,000 makes it better. It just sets the minimum you are going to "lose."

I think it just comes down to how we look at possibility of having a long break. $30k + costs was the number I came up with when we were looking for something to do on our sabbatical-nothing cost less than $30k and most of it cost substantially more. I looked at renting chalets and villas, world cruises, canal boating...pretty much everything but backpacking around Europe because those days are behind me.

So we ended up determining that the experience (total package, not just renting someone else's boat) of living aboard was what we wanted and $30k was the minimum it was going to cost. I realize it was 12 months for us not 6 (or 4) and that changes the economics significantly.

We haven't sold the boat yet but based on current pricing, cost of ownership over that first year was somewhere in the neighbourhood of $15k for survey, insurance, moorage and refit, $3k or so for repairs that year and, if we sell through a broker, an other 12k or so. Add in about $8k for winter moorage etc and the total is $38k give or take.



Minnewaska said:


> We have not been told how much the OP is planning to spend on this boat, which I mentioned above. At some point, the costs could look pretty similar. Depends on how big the sales commission will be and how long storage and insurance is being paid, before it sells.
> 
> Bottom line, I would expect chartering to be more expensive, compared to a lucky outcome and less expansive to an unlucky one. It's not a gimme.


No, it's not a gimmee. But like I said, if you are in it for the experience of cruising, then my vote is take the risk of ownership. It was a fantastic opportunity to learn and grow.

But I will let it go now :wink - I hope the OP let's us know what he decides.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Like I’ve previously said, if the OP can afford the risk of ownership, go for it. That includes potentially owning the boat for years. If they can’t absorb the downside, they should limit it. That’s ultimately the issue, I guess.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Life is not about minimizing risk but about taking them.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Managing risk and minimizing risk are two different things. Managing risk starts with how much risk one can afford.


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## Calmwater (Aug 5, 2018)

So different people got to the same figure on a 6-12 months of buy and sell a 10 years 40' cruiser... ?

I have always owned boats, refitted, sold, bought again (a lot of happy days.... ) and also chartered for short periods as the airlines nasty restrictions on luggage checkin works against taking a 44' boat with me for my vacations - as I like... maybe I should declare my boat an emotional support pet?...

Anyway, OP has enough information by now to make his own math on the $$$ and time on the water and on the hard etc...



MacBlaze said:


> Minnewaska said:
> 
> 
> > Geez, Mac, you seem to have a bone to pick. Is it okay to disagree?
> ...


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Other pint about a charter is often you need to bring it back to the base at the end... Or pay for it to be delivered. Likely they won't all ow a Grenada based boat taken to Florida.

Likely no sailing after 4pm. So that stuffs any passages. 

So chartering would be different to what the op wants in a long one way cruise.

But we note the op has gone quiet... :|


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Other pint about a charter is often you need to bring it back to the base at the end... .....|


That's probably true. While I have no personal interest in long term charters, this thread intrigues me, so I read the FAQs on that long term sabatical website above. They seem to be based in Tortola, BVI. While they say you can go anywhere in the Caribbean, if renting for over a month, they don't specify that it needs to come back. Probably does.

On the other hand, I would not find it insufferable to cruise the Caribbean for 4-6 months and have to make my way back to the BVIs. I'll take it right now..........


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

There are many unknowns about executing this sort of plan. Having said that.. assuming the purchased boat is a sail away condition... most boats are despite needing work done... a 6 months ownership/cruise is a like a compressed cruising ownership experience. I would presume the care and maintenance of the boat is integral to the whole experience. Hell no you don't want a project boat or one with an unreliable engine... or tattered sails... but the usual problems... leaks and so forth can be traced and fixed for example.

One can't expect to sell the boat in a different market geographically for the same price. But that is hard to know also. Maybe there are buyers who want a proven boat ready to cruise... and not a project boat or a more vanilla one needing system upgrades. 

And finally what is a reasonable "bottom line" for the entire "project/adventure"... $5K/mo.... $10K/mo? How does that compare to the cost of a house at the beach in the Hamptons or the Cape? Hard to see how this could be a financial bomb unless they purchase the wrong boat or there are some serious surprises. And who knows what happen$ when you sail off for a 6 month cruise on your own boat? Who expects no expenses except fuel, water, provisions and "fees"? Who lives to a precise monthly budget on a boat?


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

People who want to go sailing will figure out a way to make it happen and go sailing, even if the plan or boat is less than optimal.

Other folks will find excuses not to go sailing; cost, time, maintenance cycles to name a few.

I find it hard to believe that the OP wouldn't be able to find a 10 year old boat that is turn key enough to go sailing for 4 or 5 months in the Carribean.


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## MacBlaze (Jan 18, 2016)

SanderO said:


> And finally what is a reasonable "bottom line" for the entire "project/adventure"... $5K/mo.... $10K/mo? How does that compare to the cost of a house at the beach in the Hamptons or the Cape? Hard to see how this could be a financial bomb unless they purchase the wrong boat or there are some serious surprises.


Exactly. Who knew taking time off and not working could be so damn expensive... you might as well blow it on your dreams... :grin


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## stephenolafson (Sep 17, 2006)

I go away to work for a few days and come back to a wealth of ideas and opinions! I want to thank everyone for their great input. 

As I suspected, like most things in life, it comes down to time and money. Owning comes with all the pitfalls described but brings a true sense of home while away. Chartering keeps the plan easier to 'plan' but you're floating about on borrowed time. 

It all depends on how many months my wife can take a leave of absence for. 

Maybe I can find an owner who's boat is already south, and for the right 'price', insurance and plan, I can (slowly) deliver the boat to the US or elsewhere. 

Time will tell.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Interesting thought that someone may allow you to cruise on their boat, in exchange for its delivery elsewhere. Be careful of the rules. If it’s a recreational vessel, it’s insurance may not apply if you pay for this cruise. Typically, you would be paid, but you want to be a named insured, not just an authorized operator. Going to be a needle in a haystack to find his unique opportunity, I’m afraid. 

Reminds of getting quotes from some local skippers to have my new boat moved about 1000 miles. One quote came in about a third of all the rest and the guy was highly recommended by some folks I knew. Turns out, however, his “crew” was going to be his entire sailing club of 8 people. They were going to use the delivery as their summer cruise, without telling me what was really going on. That’s no bueno and I passed.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

While it sounds terribly nice for you to find some unique chartering/borrow thing where you swap for home, dog and wife for a guys well found expensive boat for you to sail a glorious vacation-of-dreams passage whilst saving the world and getting a sun tan, the reality is it aint gunna happen.
sorry to be the bearer of reality, but if it was viable there would be people doing it, websites set up, companies making money out of it.

Just for a start: Where would you advertise for the imbicile?

Yachtworld wont take your ad.
None of the forums will.
Your yacht club notice board wont find enough viewers to find the 1 in a 10,000.

So where do you find the other unique person in the world?

You cant and you wont.

It might take 5 years to find someone to give you their boat for 6 months.

The buying/selling idea is good. Its something thats done thousands of times per year. There website, magazines, and whole industries set up to help you buy and sell. That works.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

If the OP is a qualified, licensed delivery skipper, he might find a delivery that way. Then make his proposal to the victim. Still unlikely to happen.


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