# outboard for sailboat?



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I recently cracked the block on my Islander 30 1973 sailboat, someone told me to put a harness on the back and mount a fixed outboard and steer with the helm. What size outboard would be good, long or short shaft, what are the benifits of a 2-cycle or 4-cycle engine, do I need a remote start or is a pull cord better, and can I run the onboard to the onboard gas fuel tank? I need all these answers answered. Also, who could do the job? Anyone have the answers?


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

It's difficult (if not illegal) to buy a small 2 stroke in CA these days and under the assumption your tank was for gas it could be used. However the built in tank may have a capacity greater than needed or practical. It's also probably pretty old and you'd want to overhaul it well to clean, check for leakage, venting etc. Might be better with a smaller portable tank above decks. 
Check with some local Honda dealers to see what they would charge to install a 10 HP. That will give you an idea of the high end of prices for the job.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

The motor aft of the rudder could afffect manoueverability...you might want to rig up a test before you commit...


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## Guesser (Mar 24, 2007)

If you're gonna do it...get 4 stroke with electric start and a cockpit mounted shifter. I'd guess a 9.9 would do, but a 15hp might be better. Most likely you'll need a longshaft (20"), but it depends on where you're able to mount the bracket. You'll also want to have a high thrust prop and a depending on the year and make, a reverse thruster, (for exhaust cavitation). For a professional install, with a decent motor, you're looking at a minimum of $3000-$4000. I'd seriously consider rebuilding your inboard first.


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## Quickstep192 (Jan 6, 2001)

I have a 24' boat and my greatest wish would be for an inboard. When the going gets tough, and you're trying to power through rollers, the outboard has trouble keeping the prop in the water. Also, hanging a 15hp outboard on the transom is a lot of weight to add that far aft. Prsumably, the transom is strong enough to support that weight, but if not, you've introduced another problem. By the time you buy a big enough outboard, add a bracket and re-rig your tank, I should think you'll be close to the cost of your re-build and still won't have an inboard.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

capttb said:


> It's difficult (if not illegal) to buy a small 2 stroke in CA these days...


Not so. From The Department of Boating and Waterways website:

*Facts About Two-Stroke Vessel Engines*

Two-stroke engines are not "banned" for use on all waterways in California, nor is there any plan to do so.
General Overview Two-Stroke Vessel Engines


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

It sounds as if you cracked the block of an inboard engine!? If this is the case then replace that engine. The weight of the inboard is figured into the stability of your vessel. So replace it. Whatever you do don't take out the old one for the above reason with replacing weights required below.


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## poopdeckpappy (Jul 25, 2006)

True, they're not ban, nor will they be but, they are being phased out.

I would op for the inboard rebuild, I have a 26 islander with a engine well in the aft deck for a outboard, the best I could do was a 5hp 4s OB, it's ok for motoring out of the marina, but not the best idea for motoring head on threw seas,currents & wind


also, consider the weight of a 100lb outboard canterlevered off your 35 yr old transom


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Whether they are banned or not, doesn't mean that sale of two-stroke outboards aren't going to be limited or banned. I believe the laws currently allow use of existing two-stroke outboards, but believe that EPA guidelines will be stopping the two-stroke outboard sales.

I would also be hesitant to mount an outboard on a boat that was designed for an in-board. The outboard will have problems with surfacing when the boat pitches, and adds a lot of weight aft—both of which have been mentioned previously. I don't see it as a viable long-term solution. 

Finally, a 9.9 four-stroke OB is going to be around 100 lbs. Is the transom of your boat sufficiently reinforced to handle an outboard motor bracket with that much weight on it. Also, can it handle the forces generated when powering under the outboard??


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Go to the next page of the DBW website and after the line quoted is this one.
"The state regulations, from the California Air Resources Board (ARB) Recreational Marine Engine Program, are concerned with the _manufacture_ and sale of _NEW_ marine gasoline two-stroke engines."
I have an 88hp 2 stroke on a runabout, not illegal to run but, difficult or illegal to buy one in the state new.
Explanation of Two-Stroke Vessel Engine Regulations and Restrictions
Pretty much thought when he received an estimate for installing a Honda, our mate might decide it was better to rebuild the inboard himself.


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## CosmosMariner (Dec 21, 2006)

I ordered my 1987 25' watkins new with a 12 hp long shaft ob mounted on the transom. The transom does have a reinforcing backing plate. It worked fine even in 6' - 8' waves and the prop never broke the surface (1996 August off Cape Romano Shoal FL). I replaced it in 2000 with a Nissan 18 hp long shaft on the same adjustable mount. It workes fine. Steering with the spade rudder is better because there is no prop wash over the rudder surface. I have electric start, manual start backup and cockpit mounted controls, don't see how you could do otherwise on a 30 footer. A 9.9 is too small, 15 to 20 hp would be better. Manual adjustable mounts can accomodate up to 25 hp and hydraulic mounts that much or more. Fixed mount is ok as long as you can tilt up the shaft to get it out of the water for sailing and keeping the prop clean and avoiding electrolysis. Adjustable mount lets you lower the engine to maximum if needed in rough seas. 12 hp was 80 lbs and 18 hp is 100 lbs. NO significant difference in trim. Using up the water in my 40 gal tank under the v berth has more effect! However this is and Islander 30 SAILBOAT right? so you will only use the outboard for getting into and out of the marina anyway. I used the 12 hp to go 700 mi from Tarpon Springs FL to Savannah GA on the ICW sometimes inside sometimes outside. No problems except 2 spark plug changes leaning over the stern. Cost in 2000 for my 18 hp Nissan was $2,600, I installed myself.

2 cycle outboards over 40 hp are still legal to sell, the racing lobby saw to that. California could be none, not sure, don't boat there don't intend to.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

capttb said:


> I have an 88hp 2 stroke on a runabout, not illegal to run but, difficult or illegal to buy one in the state new.


OK, once again, *there are no restrictions on the sale or purchase of 2-stroke outboards of any displacement in California*, despite your repeated attempts to convince us otherwise. And while it may be difficult to find a manufacturer still producing large displacement 2-stroke engines, our friend is not looking for a large displacement 2-stroke engine. He can have his choice of a wide selection of 2 or 4-stroke outboards in the size range that would be suitable for his boat.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

CosmosMariner said:


> I ordered my 1987 25' watkins new with a 12 hp long shaft ob mounted on the transom. The transom does have a reinforcing backing plate.


Primary difference is your boat was designed with the use of an outboard auxilliary from the beginning. The OP's boat was not. Yours has a reinforced transom, the OP's boat probably does not.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Are You Sure?*

How was it determined that the block is cracked? The climate in your area isn't typically severe enough to cause this kind of damage. While I'm not experienced with fresh water systems, I would think that they, by their nature, would not be prone to freezing. Further, a cracked water jacket in a fresh water system is typically not under enough pressure to be of consequence. A layer of epoxy on the exterior may provide an adequate fix.

Assuming that we are dealing with a water-jacket crack and the system is recirculating, BarsLeak is a very effective product. They make a version specifically for cracked castings, IIRC. Unless you're going bluewater, which your proposed solution implies is not the case, you may be well to the good to give it a try. Easy, cheap, and hopefully effective.

I'm tending to believe that your problem lies elsewhere, unless hot water is spraying from an obviously cracked water jacket. And then you should confirm that the problem is not a corroded freeze plug.

If your _evidence_ is oil in the water or water in the oil, you could be dealing with a blown head gasket. In an engine this old, it would be a very real possibility. A compression test revealing similarly very low cranking pressures in two adjacent cylinders would be confirming evidence.

Just my thoughts.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

So where in California can I buy a new Johnson 9.9 HP 2-stroke Fstbttms?


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

capttb said:


> So where in California can I buy a new Johnson 9.9 HP 2-stroke Fstbttms?


Gee, this took me about 10 seconds to find:

Outboard Motor Shop / Sea-Power: Engines: Johnson


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Just called them and they say you cannot buy a new small 2 stroke in California, only the larger 2 strokes that are fuel injected.
So I'll stick with it being difficult to buy a new small 2 stroke.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

capttb said:


> Just called them and they say you cannot buy a new small 2 stroke in California, only the larger 2 strokes that are fuel injected.
> So I'll stick with it being difficult to buy a new small 2 stroke.


Well, I just called them too. Further, I checked the West Marine catalog and they have a paragraph in the outboard motor section stating essentially what you had posted here. So I guess I'll have to color myself embarrassed, because you are correct, capttb.


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## Guesser (Mar 24, 2007)

capttb said:


> Just called them and they say you cannot buy a new small 2 stroke in California, only the larger 2 strokes that are fuel injected.
> So I'll stick with it being difficult to buy a new small 2 stroke.


So buy a 4-stroke.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Four-stroke engines are considerably heavier than their two-stroke counterparts in general.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

I've always had a warm spot for 2 strokes, the old ones,with carburetors and running pre-mix. And I fought against the dominance of Honda and other foreign companies longer than most, you know, "Rather paddle my Johnson than drive a rice burner". Anyway, couple years ago when I needed new engine for the dink I started shopping and ran into this little catch 22, needless to say I'm now the proud owner of a Honda 4 stroke 2 HP. Recently I've seen some new really small (1.5 to 3 hp) from American Companies, but at that time Honda was the only one with an engine lighter than a 4 HP available to us here. Oh well, at least I'm still drivin' a GMC.


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## CosmosMariner (Dec 21, 2006)

The Watkins 25 was 'designed' for a 9 horse inboard Diesel. The option was for an o/b. The backing plate is only added if the option is chosen. 4 stroke version is 25lbs heavier than my 2 cycle...not a big deal on my boat...even less of a problem on a 30' boat. Also I'm not pushing 2 cycle here just giving an example of real life that works not theory or opinion.


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## CoralReefer (Jul 20, 2006)

It doesn't really matter 2 stroke or 4. The thing needed for sailboats without a diesel is an outboard with low RPM and large prop. I have a 15 Honda 4 stroke on my 26 footer. I had to replace the prop to get more thrust, went from a 9.25 x 9 to a 10 x 5. picked up 3 knots of boat speed. When your 35 miles from the nearest inlet to get outside that 3 knots cuts your travel time in half.


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## Anastasis (Apr 19, 2007)

*Outboard mount*

Seems like a lot of 'what-if's' out there. I had issues with my inboard Atomic 4 on a 1970 Cal 28. Decided to go the outboard route instead of hassle with another rebuild. I use a Yamaha 9.9 High-thrust model with a 25" shaft. I've used two mounting options- both the inboard well and a sailboat outboard bracket.

For the outboard bracket:
Pros: Easy to get the motor on/off, tilt-up available, easy to flush after sailing (lean over the side and attach the flushing rig) 
Con: Hunk of metal hanging over te side.... It looks like all auxilliary outboards, not quite as pretty. Maintenance was sometimes an issue, especially with small parts. I rigged a catch bag around the motor to prevent losing stuff to Neptune
Inboard well:
Pros: Looks sharper, less chance of losing tools (although they fall through the hole just as easy) and the fuel/control lines were shorter
Cons: Difficult to pull out/ put in, since it required a lot of wiggling to fit into the factory cut out.

All told, I got 6-7 kts in the harbor, 5-6 kts open water with the 9.9, vice 4-5 kts with my Atomic. I reinforced the transom with 1"x6" oak planks where the bolts for the outboard bracket went in. I saw a little flex at full throttle. Using yamaha cables, I used my existing engine controls, then rigged a new fuel tank. The old one leaked and the boat smells better inside now.

I noticed little change in pitch with the extra weight on the stern. With the Atomic out, I've got extra storage for stuff and noticed better sailing characteristics with less weight. This boat has 2200 lbs of encapsulated lead for ballast.

Good luck with the decisions, it's tough. I did all the work myself and it definitely wasn't all clock work. Then again, anytime I had questions I just asked the local outboard shop and they had great answers. Total cost was around $2500 for everything.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Prop pitch*

On your outboard, what prop pitch do you have?

I sold my 8hp 300lb inboard and got a Honda outboard. It came with a 9" pitch prop. I am thinking a 7" would be best. Maybe less. What do you have?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I mounted a 1972 40hp Evinrude on the back of a 1972 Pearson 36' sailboat. WE custom made the bracket and made a backing plate on the inside of the transom. Its held up for a year now with no issues(other then the motor giving up on life). If you make a backer for the mounting plate, it should be ok, just keep an eye on where the transom meets the hull sides. 

On the otherhand, does anyone think a longshaft 15hp outboard would be enough power to keep the pearson going? The 40 is needed for another boat and ive found an extra longshaft 15hp Johnson to use. Ive moved the boat before with a shortshaft 15hp motor and had alot of cavation issues. I figure its enough power as long as the prop stays in the water. 15hp isnt far off what the little diesel was.


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## sterilecuckoo58 (Aug 4, 2010)

For what its worth, our 1970 Vivacity 24 has had an extra long 25" 9.9 2-stroke Johnson for 16 years, had the proper pitched prop so my folks experienced improved performance. Its predecessor was a long 20" 15 hp (same motor, different carb?) with a prop more suited to a none displacement skiff and in following seas the prop would pop out (always a following sea returning to port though Jones Inlet, Long Island, NY) so Mom would often set on the stern pulpit which, despite being a lightweight, improved things a bit.

After the XL began spitting steam (and an overheat...ugh..rebuilt) regularly we retired it and replaced it with a 4-stroke XL Tohatsu. [it was either that or a used OMC, I could not afford new to begin with, let alone a new OMC or Mercury)

Now here's the kicker... er literally... The Johnsons were mounted on a typical OMC bracket with a 1-7/8" thick plywood mounting plate that the motor hung on. I too the 4-stroke and put it right on and we went about our business for the season.

Bringing her in to her winter storage slip off Boston Harbor in early November (yeah, after Sandy, but that's another yarn) I had to demonstrate to the unknown person on the dock tending to his fine sailing yacht that I was a capable seaman and could slip my bought perfectly. So to arrest my way, I chose to use reverse briefly and gently. Except that somehow the throttle revved up (probably hitting he stern cut out?), and my nearly new engine did a reverse flip with a half twist and landed on the water.

It stopped running (thank you lanyard), and it didn't sink (thank you short batter cable clamped in place, well sealed enclosure and especially thank you adrenal glands). The mounting board broke across the two upper bolts which bolt it to the bracket. I made a new one out of 1-7/8" lam-beam and sealed it and mounted it . In maneuvering the motor down into the water Something Happened (credit due to Joe Heller, thanks Joe) and my beautiful new mount cracked the same way, still held together by some thread.

I made up another mounting block out of 2"x8" rough oak running grain vertically, and that worked despite an abrupt drop into the water.

So I am looking for a better way to carry that 4-stroke someplace sturdy astern. A set of inclined rails on the stern? Maybe right into the trapezoidal notch in the stern? I get the sense that the further forward the prop is, the better. Any thoughts? The Mayer thing in another thread seems too bulky a contraption. 

I have hauled the boat for bottom repairs, inside ballast corrosion repairs, rub rail replacement and other less daunting tasks


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## jhaley66 (Nov 4, 2008)

What pitch prop did you use on the 9.9 Johnson?


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