# Removing propshaft from engine coupler



## belanich (Sep 13, 2006)

Its 20 degrees outside and I'm removing the rudder and prop shaft on my day off - I must be nuts!

First the reason I need a new prop shaft. The prop shaft corroded between the two retains nuts at the end of the shaft. I discovered this when I tried to remove the end nut and the shaft broke between the nuts with minimal effort - there was very little metal holding it together.

What I have done so far.
Removed the rudder by myself - that was fun.
Removed the set screw that connects the shaft to the coupler.
Loosened the stuffing box.
Sprayed the shaft and coupler with liquid wrench
Tried tapping the base of the prop - does not budge.

I am afraid to give it a good whack because I don't want to destroy the gearbox. I thought of using a torch but I hesitate because the fuel tank is about a foot away.

Info
Pearson P30
Atomic 4

If you have any tips I would appreciate it.

MB


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## messenger (Oct 21, 2006)

Heat on the coupler and a come-along????


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## jjablonowski (Aug 13, 2007)

Take a look at this link PSS Shaft Seal Installation Photo Gallery by Maine Sailing at pbase.com from fellow SailNetter.


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## btrayfors (Aug 25, 2006)

You should be able to remove the (4) bolts holding the two halves of the coupler together, then slide the shaft aft. This would give you good access to "operate" on the half of the coupler attached to the shaft.

A gear puller would be good; heat and banging might work, too. At least you'll not be doing any damage to the gearbox this way 

Good luck and stay warm.

Bill


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## belanich (Sep 13, 2006)

JJ
Thanks - you just made my day.
I noticed that your from LI. I sail out of Mt Sinai.
MB


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

Mainesail has a good way

PSS Shaft Seal Installation Photo Gallery by Maine Sailing at pbase.com


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

jjablonowski said:


> Take a look at this link PSS Shaft Seal Installation Photo Gallery by Maine Sailing at pbase.com from fellow SailNetter.


Sailnet's word-trashing feature has screwed up the URL. Here, use this one http://tinyurl.com/a25s3o

Hint to posters: Get in the habit of always using TinyURL.com - shorten that long URL into a Tiny URL, or similar, when posting URLs that have sailing-related real words in them, otherwise Sailnet's word-trashing code will break them. Also: Make sure to uncheck "Automatically retrieve titles from external links," under "Additional Options," or Sailnet's word-trashing "feature" might mangle your URL, anyway.

The downside is that tinyurl references eventually expire, so older Sailnet articles will become somewhat useless, and having anonymous URLs is less handy than reader-friendly text, but it's either those things or have URLS be immediately useless.

Jim


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*With..*

With all due respect your shaft is toast so rather than risk damage to the tranny I would advise cutting it out. Couplings usually, and when I say this I mean like 95% of the time, are NOT reusable due to the tolerance lost from breaking the layer of rust free.

More often than not, with old shafts & couplings, you can not separate them. If you need a new shaft any way just cut it out with a 4" angle grinder and a cut off wheel. It will take three minutes max. If this is a split coupling you may get it off but if it is a solid coupling why risk it..

Also here are some warnings:

#1 Never, ever use a slide hammer to remove a prop shaft if it is connected to the tranny. I have seen inexperienced "summer help" shatter a tranny case doing this.. "Look it moved!"

#2 Never bang on the shaft or coupling if it is connected to the tranny. You can damage the bearings and create flat spots! if you must bang on it use a brass, coper or lead hammer..

#3 Always use PB Blaster, Kroil or Thrust!! Liquid Wrench, WD-40 etc. suck at penetrating!!

#4 Never, ever get any penetrating oil on or near your transmissions output shaft seal!!! It will eat it and ruin it requiring a tranny rebuild. Never use the spray feature near any output shaft seals and always dab it on with an artists brush or flux brush instead.

Your shaft is already toast, cut it before doing any potential damage to the tranny!!

Just my .02!

PSS Installation (LINK)


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## belanich (Sep 13, 2006)

Thanks to all the members of the sailnet technical support team (do any of you have jobs? ;-). Special thanks to Maine Sail for a great website and the best advice - just cut the shaft. Why didn't I think of that?

Last question - where can I find a prop shaft?
MB


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

belanich said:


> Last question - where can I find a prop shaft?
> MB


Where are you located??


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## belanich (Sep 13, 2006)

Maine Sail
I'm on Long Island.


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## CLucas (Feb 10, 2007)

belanich said:


> Thanks to all the members of the sailnet technical support team (do any of you have jobs? ;-). Special thanks to Maine Sail for a great website and the best advice - just cut the shaft. Why didn't I think of that?
> 
> Last question - where can I find a prop shaft?
> MB


Try calling Bob at LI Yacht Service in Huntington (631 549 4687). LI Yacht Service is at 135 West Shore Road, Huntington near West Shore Marina -- small shop and have been helpful to me in the past.

Stay warm!

Chris


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## belanich (Sep 13, 2006)

Found this website when looking for a driveshaft. Illustrates Mainsails advice about slidehammers!

Propeller Shaft Removal

MB


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

belanich said:


> Found this website when looking for a driveshaft. Illustrates Mainsails advice about slidehammers!
> 
> Propeller Shaft Removal
> 
> MB


And that guy still does not get it!! A slide hammer should NEVER be used with a shaft connected to a transmission no matter how lightly you slide it.. Clearly his "expert" was not an expert but rather a hack. A slide hammer should only be used on a shaft already out of a boat. Hacks use slide hammers and ruin transmissions. If the coupling will not come off you can try drilling and splitting it but this is very labor intensive and will usually end up with a ruined shaft anyway...

Trust me many boat yards have slide hammers and use them it does NOT make it a safe or proper practice and it takes very little to create a flat spot in an output bearing or race..


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

belanich said:


> Maine Sail
> I'm on Long Island.


Hamilton Marine now does shafting work, actually they sub it out, and the prices are fairly good. You'll need to know diameter, length and which coupling you use. Now is a good time to install a PSS...

Oh and when you put it back together use Tef-Gel on the shaft and inside the coupling. It totally prevented any rusting on mine. After two years my coupling came off 100% rust free and with all the original tolerances intact and not destroyed by a thin layer of rust.

Prior to installation I coated the inside of the coupling, the key way, the key and the shaft with a liberal amount of Tef-Gel.. While most of it was wiped away by the very tight tolerances when assembling it the anti-corrosion abilities were unharmed. After removal both the shaft and inside of the coupling had a thick feeling, extra tacky layer of protective Tef-Gel.

Mike, the manager at my prop shop, thought for sure the Tef-Gel would have been totally wiped away and would add noting but it survived. The nice thing about Tef-Gel is that unlike Anti-Seize products that contain graphite or metals it does not add to galvanic corrosion issues.. It also works very, very well as a rust inhibitor..

My coupling came off like it was new with NO penetrating oil and only two bolts with my gear/hub puller.

On my last boat, which was brand new, I ran it for less than three months then hauled to change to a PSS. In just three months of use the coupling was already rusted on!!

Tef-Gel works!!!

*After two plus years it came right off:*








*No RUST!*








*The Shaft:*








*Better Lighting Showing NO RUST!!*









*This photo shows NO Tef-Gel after just three months (note the rust adhered to the shaft that broke off the internal surface of the coupling):*


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## belanich (Sep 13, 2006)

Maine Sail said:


> And that guy still does not get it!! A slide hammer should NEVER be used with a shaft connected to a transmission no matter how lightly you slide it..


HE DOES GET IT, UNFORTUNATELY - Read the whole page its quite funny (because its not me) - he writes how he DESTROYED his transmission because of the slide hammer.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

belanich said:


> HE DOES GET IT, UNFORTUNATELY - Read the whole page its quite funny (because its not me) - he writes how he DESTROYED his transmission because of the slide hammer.


this was the comment from that web site I was referring to;



> Remember when I said remember this spot in the story? *Well here is some advice from some experts I talked to.* Before using the shaft removal tool, the shaft coupler should be removed from the transmission. *Apply penetrating oil* to the front and back side of the coupler. Also apply oil to the key way. Inspect for excess amounts of corrosion and rust. *Tap with a hammer* to try to loosen the rust between the coupler and the shaft. *Add more penetrating oil*, making sure you allow enough time for the oil to penetrate deep into the coupler. *Connect the coupler back on the transmission and use the removal tool.*


Even after shattering his transmission to pieces he advises a few taps with a hammer, some penetrating oil and to go at it again with the slide hammer... D'oh


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## belanich (Sep 13, 2006)

Mainsail,

I see - I guess he'll get it when he destroys the next tranny!

Everyone,

Does anyone have experience with Kruger and Sons or Deep Blue Yacht Supply.


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## Jhildy (Jan 2, 2009)

You likely already know this and I'm not technical, but this summer I had my Propeller shaft replaced and somehow they didn't get the pitch of my propeller reset correctly. When I took the boat out, the boat would not move beyond 2knots though my RPMs were at 2000!! They had to pull the boat out again to fix. So, be sure to check your prop pitch.


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## sander06 (Sep 18, 2003)

I got a SS shaft fabricated at a machine shop in Key Largo, FL for $600 a couple years back. SS is like gold!


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

I must be having a senior moment... for the like of me I cannot see what the heck is going on there. What is that wee stubby shaft doing sticking out of the gearbox?
Does the coupling have to re-attach to it?

Remember when you put the new shaft onto the coupling, you MUST re-face the flange in the lathe to make sure that the flange face is at right angles to the shaft centre line. It is not likely to be if you just hammer it on again, and it will be a-wobble and you will be puzzled as to why.

Certainly, don't hammer the shaft if it is connected to the gearbox. The bearing surfaces are very hard, and they tear up easily with impacts like that.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Rockter said:


> I must be having a senior moment... for the like of me I cannot see what the heck is going on there. What is that wee stubby shaft doing sticking out of the gearbox?
> Does the coupling have to re-attach to it?


It's a v-drive!



Rockter said:


> Remember when you put the new shaft onto the coupling, you MUST re-face the flange in the lathe to make sure that the flange face is at right angles to the shaft centre line. It is not likely to be if you just hammer it on again, and it will be a-wobble and you will be puzzled as to why.


The tolerances on my shaft and coupling fit are very, very exacting. My prop shop gets it to within 3 ten thousandths or .0003 between shaft & coupling. Seeing as I lost no metal due to rust during the removal there was not any tolerance change and my original fit & face should still be spot on. I am having my shaft trued and the fit and face checked while it's out so I'll be curious to see how close it still is.. I always advise a new coupling with fit & face if any rust is seen after removal of the coupling. Even the smallest bit of inside the coupling will be more than .0003..

The general rule is once a coupling has been removed from a shaft you replace it. With Tef-Gel preventing any tolerance changes due to rust formation this may change things..



Rockter said:


> Certainly, don't hammer the shaft if it is connected to the gearbox. The bearing surfaces are very hard, and they tear up easily with impacts like that.


Coundn't have said it better!


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

Hmmm.. I'm surprised no one said to use the trick I was told to try that worked very well! (note, I did not say easy) 

1 loosen bolts,

2 remove bolts,

3 get longer bolts, or threaded rod, nuts and washers.

4 find a socket or somthing like similar that is slightly smaller then the diameter of the shaft.

5 slide shaft back (hopfully your shaft will slide back, that is why you put the shaft zinc 4 or 5 inches in front of the cutless bearing right?  )

6 put flanges together with socket between the shaft ends.

7 tighten bolts, ( you did remove the set screws and soak the shaft hub with solvent, crc, kroil, etc?)

8 if shaft still doesn't move when you tighten the bolts (evenly) don't over do it! *if the transmission hub is light weight it could break from the stress! * So I used a steel bar that we drilled for 2 bolts and tightened it without using the transmission hub, finally we had enough space for a real puller! It was fight all the way!

Putting it all back together was no where near as difficult! (ummm, thats if you don't have to drop the rudder like my Oday is  ) I'm happy to report that the PSS seal is well worth the money!

Now if they only made a tool that does the reverse of a puller? would that be a on er, pusher er? reverseing puller?


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## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

Very interesting timely and helpful. I am having this done and some difficulty is being experienced. I am awaiting engineering assistance from the apprentice, which I am not happy about but there seems some difficulty getting work done at a busy time.
A problem appears to be some uncertainty over the attachment of the coupling to the shaft. There was 1 grub screw, a hole running through the side of the coupling possibly for some wire. Then through the centre of the coupling and shaft is a hole with what looks like burring on the outside of the coupling. Because it has been painted over it is difficult to tell quite what this is. The yard wondered if it was part of the casting which seems unlikely, and the apprentice thought it might be a hollow pin. There is definitely a hole right through. Is there such a thing as a hollow pin in such circumstances which could be punched or drilled out? It would allow for wiring it but that would be redundant with the hole in the side of the coupling. 
The alternatives I am offered are drilling and if that doesn't work cutting the shaft out. No mention of penetrating oil. Of course shafts cost, as does labour and these plus delays are mounting. The key in deciding the next step seems to be eliminating the possibility of a hollow pin being the first thing stopping it. Is such a thing likely in place of say a split pin?


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Chris,

Years ago before any real standards some builders had local machine shops make up shafts or did the work in house. ABYC standards and SAE standards today call for shaft keys not "pins" that penetrate the shaft.

You have a few problems all of which will most likely require a new shaft & coupling.

*#1* The coupling arrangement sounds very odd & unique but without a photo I really can't comment too much. I will say that it will be unlikely that you will find a replacement to fit and it would likely need to be custom machined meaning $$$ and still not up to current standards.

*#2* Once a solid coupling has been in place for a while, and you remove it, it is destroyed. The small layer of rust was the designed tolerance fit. New couplings slide on with a hand finished interference fit, usually out to the ten thousandths of an inch between coupling and shaft, and require tapping with a lead hammer or block of oak to seat.

If a coupling just slides onto a shaft without tapping, NOT hammering, then the coupling is toast and will eventually ruin the shaft as well. Have people put used couplings back on? Yes! Should they? No, but to each his own, and to all doing so, a new prop shaft will eventually be needed..

*#3* Seeing as the shaft is not machined for a standard coupling you will likely need a new shaft. I highly recommend Hamilton Marine for shafting work. The prices are great and their sub contractor is top notch. They, the shafting sub contractor, do mostly government shafting work and do all the USCG 110's, many navy boats and tons of work big name yacht companies like Hatteras & Viking to name just a few. Unfortunately they have no store front and only deal through Hamilton Marine but they are top notch!

Just for comparisons sake I snap about 5-8 1/4" grade 5 bolts or "shear pins" in my snow blower each winter moving frozen water with an 8hp engine. A single pin, especially if hollow, is not a wise idea on a prop shaft and is why the standards call for keys not pins..

Boats............expensive.............


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## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

Thanks. It is a standard box / coupling for a Yanmar 2GM20 and presumably has a key inside. 
Just thinking about it if the coupling is detached from the gearbox and the whole thing is immovable, then the the sticking point must be further aft. There is a bronze stuffing box with remote greasing, on which the nuts are seized and seemingly require a special tool to access. Maybe that is the source of sticking and any pin is irrelevant until the whole thing moves.
The shaft has to be machined as it is admiralty 1/12 taper and that would require a propellor to be cast on order so I thought I would save a week. by using a stock prop. In any event it would seem a good idea to be able to get the shaft out as although there is only about 2mm play in the shaft I imagine there is a bearing of some sort in the sterntube (the shaft only comes out through the skeg).


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

chris_gee said:


> Thanks. It is a standard box / coupling for a Yanmar 2GM20 and presumably has a key inside.
> Just thinking about it if the coupling is detached from the gearbox and the whole thing is immovable, then the the sticking point must be further aft. There is a bronze stuffing box with remote greasing, on which the nuts are seized and seemingly require a special tool to access. Maybe that is the source of sticking and any pin is irrelevant until the whole thing moves.
> The shaft has to be machined as it is admiralty 1/12 taper and that would require a propellor to be cast on order so I thought I would save a week. by using a stock prop. In any event it would seem a good idea to be able to get the shaft out as although there is only about 2mm play in the shaft I imagine there is a bearing of some sort in the sterntube (the shaft only comes out through the skeg).


A pic would really help. If you have all the bolts out the rust is holding it on, quite common, and quite hard to remove! See the links early on in this thread for instructions.


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## chris_gee (May 31, 2006)

OK I went out and checked this for myself.
Image of shaft connection 1 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
Image of Transmission 2 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
Sorry I haven't mastered this yet.
The hollow pin which was possibly to be drilled out turns out to be simply a hole drilled obliquely through the connector only and has nothing to do with the shaft.
It seems the connection is flexible, and the two nuts that hold the bottom bit on the shaft have been removed. Presumably that should allow the shaft to move. Since it doesn't I am unsure what to dissassemble to apply the method above which as I understand is to remove the connector from the shaft after it has been detached from the gearbox and moved to create space but not from the shaft. Do I take off the 4 left bolts, then if I can shift the shaft somehow, use the above to try to remove the coupling ?


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