# Best inflatable pfd with harness.



## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

I'm a fan of foam pfds but they usually don't have a harness and for at least 3 days a year it's warn enough to want an inflatable.

My 10+ year old inflatable has seen better days and chafes on my neck. Any suggestions for a better one? The crewsaver looks interesting.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

I have a Spinlock deckvest with the hydrostatic type inflator. Very comfortable, built-in harness, leg straps, spray hood, pole light etc. Not TC or USCG approved so you need to make sure you have a non-inflatible in the boat somewhere. I also have a Mustang HIT vest without the harness, legs straps etc which was quite comfortable. The inflation unit in that is about due for replacement (5 year life) so I might take it to the lake and jump in wearing it, just to see what happens.


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## chuck5499 (Aug 31, 2003)

We got some from West Marine - not sure they even make them but we found them warm and reasonably comfortable.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

My wife and I have Spinlock deskvests, with crotch straps. The straps are critical for both being in the water and potentially falling against the tether. There is an integrated harness loop. Some debate this point, but as I see it, if you want to be tethered, you should want to have a pfd as well. The only exception I can think of is singlehanding in the middle of the ocean, where you might prefer to die sooner rather than later, if you actually fell overboard.

Personally, I really like the neoprene exterior and find it very comfortable against my neck. It's a bit more bulky, rather than having the sharper edges of other models, but I think that's why its comfortable too. It's a very personal thing. 

It is true that it lacks USCG cert. To be legal we have a crappy type II in a locker that I find entirely inferior. That doesn't impress me much. Our cert process is a money grab bureaucracy. It's reportedly going to change soon to conform to international standards, so it will be interesting to see if these become approved under new regs.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

Mustang MD3184


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## nolesailor (Oct 29, 2009)

I have one from West Marine...red inflatable with harness. I have been happy with it. I think it's around $200...but they go on sail now and then. One reason I decided on that one was the ability to try it on first...if I had more stores/options, I may have gone in a different direction...but, no complaints with this one...


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## sailordave (Jun 26, 2001)

I've got a couple of WM inflatables w/ integral harness and an SOSpenders, but when I was at the boat show last fall I saw the Survitec. It fits REAL nice, even better than the Spinlock and was supposed to be getting USCG approval. 
I've never liked the Spinlock reasoning of needing a cutting tool to free yourself from your tether. Of course you can luggage tag a snap shackle onto the tether. 
And lots of times I just use a harness, no PFD.


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## The Smokester (Jul 26, 2013)

You say you want the best. That is definitely the Spinlock Deckvest. Crotch straps, built-in harness, built-in strobe, spray hood, lifting strap (for the helicopter to haul you up), built-in line cutter, attachment points for radios, PLB's and optional pouches. Hydrostatic or optional manual inflation. Surprisingly, just as compact as the others and very comfortable. 

Downsides: Not USCG approved so in the USA (as mentioned above) you need to carry on board separate, approved PFD's. Also, very expensive--about $500 including a spare inflator. 

There is another Spinlock model, not quite as crazy, which is cheaper and is USCG approved.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

sailordave said:


> .....I've never liked the Spinlock reasoning of needing a cutting tool to free yourself from your tether.......


That's not a function of the Deckvest, but rather the tether. Yes, Spinlock's tethers do not have quick releases. It's a controversial topic. I come down on the side of not wanting a quick release tether. Ideally, a tether setup would never allow you to get to the water and still be tethered in. However, you can use whatever tether you like, with a Spinlock deckvest. Also, they still come with an S-cutter built into the vest, to easily cut yourself away from any line. Say, if your quick release is jammed.


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## highside (Nov 25, 2014)

Just bought a couple of Spinlock Deckvests for the wife and I. After trying on the other leading vests, these were far and away the most comfortable. All the other gizmos on this vest are great too. We forget we have them on while we're sailing. Glad we bought them, even though they were the most expensive. No buyers remorse.


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## bvander66 (Sep 30, 2007)

Being wearing spinlock deckvest for about 15 years, presently on second one and love it. Have worn them for extended periods and find then very comfortable.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Wasn't it the Spinlock Deckvests that were worn on the "Uncontrollable Urge" and 4 out of 5 failed? Was there any resolution or change in design? Not sure if it was a specific range of vests that were an issue or not.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

miatapaul said:


> Wasn't it the Spinlock Deckvests that were worn on the "Uncontrollable Urge" and 4 out of 5 failed? Was there any resolution or change in design? Not sure if it was a specific range of vests that were an issue or not.


Yes that report gives me pause. ALL of the deckvests ended with the victim's head to the side of the boyancy with one death.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

miatapaul said:


> Wasn't it the Spinlock Deckvests that were worn on the "Uncontrollable Urge" and 4 out of 5 failed? Was there any resolution or change in design? Not sure if it was a specific range of vests that were an issue or not.


Is that the one where they ended up in the surf? The result was surprising, but I recall the circumstances were very unique.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> Is that the one where they ended up in the surf? The result was surprising, but I recall the circumstances were very unique.


Unique? You mean the surf? Waves could be common for the pfd usage. I doubt the crew of low speed chase would have faired better. Waves pushed them over the heads and to the side of EVERYONE who was wearing a spinlock. One user drowned and this was found to be a contributing factor. I won't buy one until they address their design issue.

The crewsaver looks interesting and has some comfort features and integral crotch straps and lifting straps


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MedSailor said:


> Unique? You mean the surf? Waves could be common for the pfd usage. ....


I don't know Med. Surf and waves are not the same in my book. Surf is much more severe, as the water rotation is being affected by the bottom and you're going to be rolled over inside the wave. Waves bunch together, stand right up and, when depth is no more than 1-2x wave height, they break.

I certainly understand your reluctance. Thankfully, I've never needed my pfd deployed in an emergency. I am due for new cartridges this season and I'm tempted to take a dip off the side deck to see them inflate for myself and try to determine whether I think it could reasonably get past my head. If it can, I'm out too. However, I highly suspect this is a question of proper fit and tightening of the chest and leg straps. Let's face it, its always more comfortable with a pfd fitted more loosely.

I thought Practical Sailor had a fair assessment, acknowledging the gap between the bladder and vest, but could not get the condition to repeat. Others did the same, which creates the hypothesis that it was a poor fit or improve tightening problem. I'm as anxious as you are to know for sure.

http://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/Report-Cites-Problems-with-Spinlock-Deckvests-11226-1.html


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## ScottUK (Aug 16, 2009)

Also have the spinlock deckvest. Do not like the leg straps as they slide down and then get caught on my hamstrings so I am stooped over until I can tend to it. Unfortunately it is a real nuisance when racing so at times I just undo the whole strap. I think the design could be easily remedied.


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

We use Spinlocks with WM tethers. The crotch straps just get in the way too much and are a pain in the arse to get into when it's dark, so we prefer to cinch the waist down snugly after putting it on to maybe prevent what happened in the "uncontrollable urge" report. I've crewed enough on a friend's boat who bought a bunch of the Spinlock tethers and am glad I bring my WM version.. much easier to release the jackline clips single-handed.


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## sailordave (Jun 26, 2001)

Minnewaska said:


> That's not a function of the Deckvest, but rather the tether. Yes, Spinlock's tethers do not have quick releases. It's a controversial topic. I come down on the side of not wanting a quick release tether. Ideally, a tether setup would never allow you to get to the water and still be tethered in. However, you can use whatever tether you like, with a Spinlock deckvest. Also, they still come with an S-cutter built into the vest, to easily cut yourself away from any line. Say, if your quick release is jammed.


On my boat at least, I leave the tether clipped on to a folding padeye in the cockpit and unclip the tether from my PFD when I'm safely inside the cabin standing on the companionway. Leave the tether on the bridge deck and I can clip on before exiting the companionway. Much safer in crappy conditions.


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## engineer_sailor (Aug 27, 2011)

We have two of the Mustang MD 3184s (HIT w/ Integrated harness). Just started using tether. Love the vest. Have read that the optional crotch strap is needed to keep the vest down when inflated in water but no personal experience.

Josh


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## bvander66 (Sep 30, 2007)

Practical Sailor did a good review assesment of the deckvest after the fatality, worth a read. Indications are conditions were quite severe and implications are that fatalities could of occured regardless of pfd used. Interestingly they were unable to replicated what happened. They do address that protection is reduced without the leg loops/crotch strap, but that hold true for any pfd. Deckvest has two methods, a leg loop and traditional crotch strap, so wearers do have a choice they can make.

Final observation is that PFDs are like flac vests, great protection for most fragments but they wont stop a .50 cal round.


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## PorFin (Sep 10, 2007)

Med,

We've got (and use) Mustang 3184's; we like them. Having said that, I can't weigh in on how they compare/contrast with any other model since the Mustang is the entirety of our field of reference.

I've always thought the "PFD with harness" was a less useful term than "harness with PFD" would be. As long as the harness/tether functions as its supposed to, the flotation features are kind of superfluous. But having a reserve on a parachute rig is something I'd never go without, and when you need it to work its gotta work 100% of the time.

I've given thought about adding leg straps to our 3184's. Not a really complicated process, but still kind of low on the priority list.


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## engineer_sailor (Aug 27, 2011)

One sidenote on the 3184s:
I found out after I bought them that they or the harness aren't ISAF (?) approved. Might consider separate rather than integrated harness. Others might have more guidance with that setup. I can imagine making sure harness and vest comfortably work together could be a challenge

Josh


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## The Smokester (Jul 26, 2013)

Interesting discussion here on the Deckvest. In the Uncontrollable Urge incident referenced above, five of six crew members had Spinlock Deckvests, including the person who drowned. The drowned person was not wearing crotch straps. He had been tethered to the jacklines but fell from the boat and was cut free from the wreckage by a fellow crew member in an attempt to save him.

The other five crew survived. Three of five vests floated overhead despite one of these wearing crotch straps. Of the other two survivors, one was wearing crotch straps and the Deckvest remained in position. At least three of the Deckvest survivors struggled with the vest on the left side. The other survivor's PFD, an SOSpender, remained in position without crotch straps. 

In another ocean racing in Northern California, Low Speed Chase was rolled by a large wave and washed up on a lee shore. The crew were wearing a hodge lodge of PFDs and none was tethered. Three of eight crew survived. All struggled with their PFDs. I don't think any were wearing crotch straps.

These California incidents have changed the ocean racing regulation landscape. As of 2014, NorCal Ocean Racing requires that "...Each crewmember shall have a life jacket that provides at least 33.7lbs (150N) of buoyancy, intended to be worn over the shoulders (no belt pack), meeting either U.S. Coast Guard or ISO specifications. Life jackets shall be equipped with crotch or leg straps, a whistle, a waterproof light, be fitted with marine-grade retro-reflective material, and be clearly marked with the boat’s or wearer’s name, and be compatible with the wearer’s safety harness. If the life jacket is inflatable, it shall be regularly checked for air retention..." There are many other changes beyond those for PFDs. 

In the past I have proof-tested my PFDs in the water, but not my Deckvest which is relatively new to me. Given the information in this thread, I will review the risks associated with its design. 

Many thanks for those who contributed to this thread.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

My concern with most integrated PFD/harnesses is that the D-rings for the harnesses sometimes ride low on the ribcage. My Stearns STE safety harness puts the D-rings right up at armpit level, which I think is the safest location.

I've often lusted after the Mustang 3184, and my son (who races in Puget Sound) bought one. But I don't do enough offshore or singlehanding to justify the added cost of their HIT mechanism, so I just use PFDs with the starch pills. 

I did find a great deal on WM's Offshore PFD/harness last Thanksgiving ($99), so I picked that up. But if I don't like the D-ring position on it after wearing it for awhile, I'm going to keep using the Stearns STE harness underneath it.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

TakeFive said:


> My concern with most integrated PFD/harnesses is that the D-rings for the harnesses sometimes ride low on the ribcage. My Stearns STE safety harness puts the D-rings right up at armpit level, which I think is the safest location.


I completely agree with this, and that's also why my tethers are made of climbing rope, to avoid the rib loads. Broken ribs are PAINFUL!

Here is some info I found while searching on Crewsaver PFD's... not what I was wanting to hear regarding quality, but certainly a good reminder to check your inflatable PFDs.

Currently my go to jacket when things get nasty is foam, for many reasons, Currently I'm trying to figure out the best way to integrate a harness into it.

I've also looked at foam swiftwater rescue PFDs, and even some hybrid/foam pfds with a harness, but I don't understand what their quick release harness system is all about. I read on a rescue PFD sales website that "If you don't know what a fast release swiftwater buckle is, please do not buy this jacket." Probably good advice....

MedSailor


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Might want to,check out the Baltic brand of foam vests with integral harness and crotch straps. Have different brands of inflatables. None are as comfortable. None have serviceable pockets. I also believe the foam ones spread the shock force of a fall with less likelihood of broken ribs. Downside is in tropics it's too hot. Then wear the inflatables.
I believe other than coastal the harness is what matters most.
Think the ones with pellets shouldn't be sold. Just when you need no distraction with green water clearing the deck repetitively landing on your chest you run the risk of the d-mn thing going off.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

Thanks Outbound for the recommendation on the baltic vests. Pricy, not easy to get in the USA and no pockets.

I think I need to just quit looking around and buy the Salus PFD with integral harness. It has pockets, and optional(?) crotch straps. I worry that the harness isn't really beefy at all and doesn't have a shoulder component, but it's better than nothing. At under about $140 shipped, I really should just try it.










I keep looking at the rescue offerings and while this may sound vain, I don't want to look like I'm kitted up for a moon landing every time I go out for a sail.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

sailordave said:


> On my boat at least, I leave the tether clipped on to a folding padeye in the cockpit and unclip the tether from my PFD when I'm safely inside the cabin standing on the companionway. Leave the tether on the bridge deck and I can clip on before exiting the companionway. Much safer in crappy conditions.


You can still do that with a Spinlock tether(s). The clip just requires two movements to open, which is safer, IMO.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Have a Baltic with nice fleece lined pockets. Maybe they stopped making them but bought it two years ago.


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