# Nonsuch- Blue water?



## serenity4u2 (Aug 1, 2008)

After reviewing Mahina's website on blue water cruisers, I observed many boats are left out. I hear many people praise the Nonsuch 30, 33 and 36 as very big boats for there size. Most reviews I have read state they are a very solid boat.. Never seen one or sailed on one... Asearch on yatchworld seems that most are back east and not out here (PNW)... Although I have no interest in the boat for personal usage- I was looking at the CAT RIG as a plus for ease of single handed sailing. I am wondering if such a rig would make this boat a poor off shore cruiser.. Thanks for any input...


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## mikehoyt (Nov 27, 2000)

These were manufactured by Hinterhoeller Yachts in Ontario, Canada in the 1980s. They are nice boats but I am not certain that a single large sail would provide the flexibility required for bluewater sailing.

That being said - they are great boats for coastal cruising and have loads of room inside. our friends have a 26 and the interior is huge! (as is the price, the dispacement, etc... for a26 foot boat)

Mike


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*It's been tried...*

It's been tried a few times and the results were not good. The sail is HUGE making it very tough to handle in high winds or breaking seas and the hulls are relatively flat like a Laser and they will pound fairly hard in big seas.

While they are built to a very high standard, the design, notably the rig and single sail, don't make them the best choice for a extended blue water sailing. I'm sure the hull could survive just about anything but you may not trying to man handle that sail in 50+...


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

A guy from Toronto tried to circumnavigate with one. Unfortunately he lost the main (and only) halyard and drifted towards Antartica. He was finally rescued but the boat stayed afloat and ended up in South America. It was a borrowed boat and I think the owner eventually got it back. There was a book written about it but I can't remember the title. These boat's are strong but the rig is a bit much. By the way, they are not as easy to sail as they claim - the "only one line bit". There is also a choker line. Also when you reef the bunt in the "cradle" catches a lot of wind.


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## anchorsaweigh (Aug 19, 2000)

*Not easy to sail? I beg to differ...*



Vasco said:


> By the way, they are not as easy to sail as they claim - the "only one line bit". There is also a choker line. Also when you reef the bunt in the "cradle" catches a lot of wind.


The lines for a Nonsuch:

1 Halyard
1 Sheet
2 First reef
2 Second reef
1 Choker
1 Topping lift

You have one sheet to tend. You may have to adjust the choker (outhaul for you sloop-riggers) occasionally. Reefing is simple and I, nor anyone else I know who owns one, have never had a problem with the reefed sail in the lazyjacks.

Some folks have an electric halyard winch to raise the sail. I don't, and I don't have a problem hauling it up by hand.

I raise the sail, release the topping lift, adjust the choker, kick back and trim when necessary. When tacking, simply turn the wheel and shift your butt a little bit.

When sailing a Nonsuch you can be as busy or lazy as you like. But you'd be hard-pressed to be really busy. It's the easiest boat I'VE ever sailed.

As far as blue-water cruising? It has been done; sometimes successfully, sometimes not. The PO of my boat sailed it back and forth between Ft Myers and Cape Cod preferring to travel offshore. He did this every year for twenty-four years without a problem.

I have had mine out in 50+ (not intentionally) and it handled just a tad tough, but fine double-reefed. The same day was steady at 40 - 45.

Many people totally misunderstand the boat, most with no experience with them whatsoever.

I wouldn't give mine up for love nor money.

Cheers,

Bob


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## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

anchorsaweigh said:


> As far as blue-water cruising? It has been done; sometimes successfully, sometimes not. The PO of my boat sailed it back and forth between Ft Myers and Cape Cod preferring to travel offshore. He did this every year for twenty-four years without a problem.
> I have had mine out in 50+ (not intentionally) and it handled just a tad tough, but fine double-reefed. The same day was steady at 40 - 45.
> I wouldn't give mine up for love nor money.
> Bob


And Thor Hydall (sp?) crossed the ocean on a raft. Nonsuch are great boats as are a number of sail configuration boats and each config has it's proponents and detractors. But, for the average sailor who truely wants to sail offshore extensively and is therefore likely to encounter some very bad weather from time to time, a sturdy full or cut away forefoot/skeg hung rudder underbody cutter is the most flexible sail plan, followed by ketches/yawls and sloops, then by single sail craft.


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## anchorsaweigh (Aug 19, 2000)

My point was that there ARE better choices. But the Nonsuch is an extremely capable boat that does indeed sail easily.

Cheers,

Bob


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Being a catboat, it wouldn't be my choice for an ocean crossing. But it would be a fine boat for U.S./Canada east coast cruising (ICW and coastal), and I wouldn't hesitate to take one from Florida across to the Bahamas. They are fairly popular here on the Chesapeake, among cruisers (not too many race).

Beyond the simplified rig, I'm not sure if there'd be a great advantage to having one in the PNW -- the relatively shallow draft that makes them handy on the East Coast isn't much of a requirement out there.


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## Gary M (May 9, 2006)

Vasco said:


> A guy from Toronto tried to circumnavigate with one. Unfortunately he lost the main (and only) halyard and drifted towards Antartica. He was finally rescued but the boat stayed afloat and ended up in South America. It was a borrowed boat and I think the owner eventually got it back. There was a book written about it but I can't remember the title. These boat's are strong but the rig is a bit much. By the way, they are not as easy to sail as they claim - the "only one line bit". There is also a choker line. Also when you reef the bunt in the "cradle" catches a lot of wind.


Actually if it is the guy I that I know of from TO I read the book and probably still have it. He lost the mast but it turned out the riggers screwed up and put all the exit holes for the halyards etc in a line across one section of mast.

He got a new mast with staggered exit holes and carried on if I remember right. 
Might be a different guy/boat. This guys name was Philpot I think, I remember he built the very first enclosed mall in London Ontario.
Gary


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## anchorsaweigh (Aug 19, 2000)

JohnRPollard said:


> the relatively shallow draft that makes them handy on the East Coast isn't much of a requirement out there.


There are a few up in the PNW, not many, and I think they are all 30's; I'll have to take a look in the registry.

They come in 5' and 3' 11" draft. The shallow draft doesn't point as well and you sacrifice some speed. Within the class, I have to give up 19 seconds to my shallow draft cousins. Part of that 19 seconds is also due to my saildrive; They came with shaft or saildrive. I've sailed both and prefer the saildrive with folding prop.

Also, there's one 33', Kitty Hawk, that has competed in several Marion to Bermuda races and is a class winner.

Cheers,

Bob


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## serenity4u2 (Aug 1, 2008)

*Great In put*

Thanks for the input!!!

First, I want to appologize to the moderators... Sorry this thread had to be moved to this forum. I did read the thread rules and thought sail design was the right thread... My Bad- My Appologies....

I have seen these boats on line and have read much about them. I have called the new company in CAN that owns the mold and is building new ones. I find these boats very interesting for the space and the (what I have been led to believe simplicity in sailing)...

Growing up in New England I am very familair with the traditional cape cod cat and the like... It seems to me that these boats are designed very differently (hull wise)...

Everything I read about these boats seem very impressive as to the quality of construction.. It seems to me as if they are built for blue water sailing- talking quality... Yet, the sail plan raised some questions... I found one owner in SF CA and heard of one in AK... They do not seem very popular out here (PNW) and I am curious how they hold up to off shore sailing outside the protected islands of WA and Canada (Gulf)...

My thoughts would lead me to think that the cutter rig would be better suited- yet, I am finding many sailing vessels with cutter rigs built with less quality.

If there is anyone in WA state who owns one of these boats I'd love to sail with you. PLease send me an email.. I sail out of Everett, WA...

Over all, my main interest is how does having only ONE sail and a BIG one at that complicate your sailing- (speaking to those who sail or sailed one)...

Addressing the post regarding the ICW- I have no desire to sail those waters. If I did, my thinking would be the nonsuch is not a traditional cat boat and would not be the best boat on the ICW- esp further south FL.. My limited sailing in the chesapeak and in the carolinas would tell me that NC has some really rough weather- now that One Big Sail would be worth addressing..


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## anchorsaweigh (Aug 19, 2000)

I was out in a Nor'Easter last August and my boat took it just fine. Some really high winds and some good gusts and everything held together except the sail. The sail was 13-years old and was in dire need of replacing anyway.

I put a reef in at around 25 - 30 and a second reef at around 35 or so and everything remains smooth.

I will be the first to admit that it shouldn't be your first choice for blue water cruising, but you could poke your nose out there for a bit without worries.

There are many from up her in New England that find their way offshore to the Caribbean for the winter.

Cheers,

Bob


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I've seen a couple of them. There was a 30 or so footer in Edmonds a while back, but I believe they went to Shilshoal. I've upon occasion seen what appears to be a mid 30'r going to and from Shilshoal to Kingston and back in my sails across to kingston from Edmonds. 

Not sure whom the local dealer is, that might be a start if there is one. if not, hopefully Bob can get you the names off the owners list of those that own them locally. 

It is not my style of boat, but it does have some interesting lines, looks etc. Certainly not for "everyone". 

Marty


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## serenity4u2 (Aug 1, 2008)

*Thanks*

Thanks Bob and Marty..... Glad to hear from you Bob and your honest input. Being in the market for a new boat- I am looking for what will meet my needs... I was sold on the Gemini for its space... Had some issues after visting factory- its still a great boat and one I'd purchase if residing back east. It would be my ideal boat to sail the ICW (no desire).. I am a PNW sailor and still seek a boat that has greater space comprable to boats in its size.. I seek a quality built boat... I stumbled into the nonsuch and really have not looked much into it.. I did call the owner of the mold yet have never actually seen a nonsuch nor sailed on one... I appreciate the spacious salon and cockpit while the cat rig raises questions... Thanks Bob, I am sold on the quality and am just researching the sailing charateristics... I already know that a cutter rigged IP offers different options then a Cat rig- just wanted to hear from you cat rig sailors.. So Bob- Thanks very greatly


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I think that the boats are ideal for the Great Lakes (which is what they were designed for) and for coastal cruising. They weren't designed to spend a lot of time off-shore. I do know that one person who took his Nonsuch down to the Caribbean for an extended period had serious chafe problems with the wishbone rig. I don't know if that is because of the way he used to trim his sails, or if it is an idiosyncracy of the design. I would tend to think the latter, but again, that's only an opinion.

Catboats were originally designed with large beams and flat bottoms to enhance their load-carrying ability. They moved fish and stores along the eastern seaboard. The boats were never meant for offshore work.

The Nonsuch does not bear much resemblance to a classic catboat below the waterline, hence it's reputation for good performance, but the rig still limits trim and balance options.

They are great boats - nicely made, big inside and faster than one would expect but they were designed for comfortable daysailing and weekending on the Great Lakes - not battling their way through a Pacific typhoon.

Good Luck. Hope everything works out well


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

I just did a search on Yachtworld, and the only 30+ on the west coast is in Alaska it appears, a 26'r is in S Cal. The Ak boat has a Vancouver BC dealer listing it. 
link to boat

It could very well if sailormann described it correctly, be a good boat for puget sound etc. Especially if you could get a deep keel one vs the shoal keel. It may very well meet your needs. If you need broker help, I know of two local that are pretty honest, both good people.

Marty


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## serenity4u2 (Aug 1, 2008)

*Thanks Marty*

Thanks Marty, I also looked on yatchworld... I was more interested in those who own the boat or sailed the boat.. If you have a friend who owns one or know someone who sails out of Everett WA I'd love to sail with that person..

Thanks...


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Another local option is go to Sail Cascadia this is a local email group/yachtclub as they prefer to be called! There may be someone in the group that knows of a local owner of a nonsuch too! Folks on the list range from Portland up to the BC area.

I'll keep my eyes open if I see whom has one. I might also be able to get the name of the 30' owner that was in Edmonds, as I know whom was next to him. I will not promise, but lets give it the college try if you will!

marty


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## wiseleyb (Feb 11, 2007)

There's one for sale now at Shilshole. Broker is Admiralty Yacht Sales. I don't see it listed on their site but it's up for sale in the window... might give them a ring. Admiralty Yacht Sales New And Used Sailboat Powerboat Dealer


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