# Is bigger always better? Nordica 20



## cstpt (Jul 10, 2012)

As I am happily sailing for my first season in a Nordica 20, I am weighing the wisdom of investing more money into this boat (primarily considering new sails and a furler) vs. looking for the 'next boat'. In many ways, this boat suits us functionally, aesthetically and financially. The biggest downside is the small cockpit. That's only an issue when we have guests aboard, which is a minority of the time. Whether that's enough of an issue to justify trading up is a question in my mind, but of course all the other aspects of moving to a bigger boat enter into it. We are on Lake Ontario, but daysailing is the extent of things for the foreseeable future.

I note with amusement blogger Ugly Yachtsman's (UY's Main Menu) observation that the ultimate goal seems to be to acquire a boat that is 'too big to use'. I know that every boat is a compromise in one way or another, and I ponder: Is bigger always better? Do you ever stop wondering if 'two feet' would make all the difference?


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

Nobody can answer that for you. A definitive answer may not even exist.

I can tell you I'm extremely happy with my 31 footer. There's no way I'd go bigger. Could go smaller. But would rather not. This is my fifth boat.


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

I had a hunter 23 ..for 11 months.. sold it.. because even though it was a nice boat I knew I wanted 30' or larger. When I did get my O30 it seemed gigantic.. now it seems very small. Spending time on a boat for days (or weeks) is nice on a boat that comes close to having the comforts of a large camper or small apartment I love it. So I does seem like you have "5 foot itis" A boat has to be awful big, like over 40 ft before it becomes too big; and the "Big" more applies to costs rather then handling.


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## AncientTech (Jun 16, 2012)

I have never owned a nordica 20 but I have had the pleasure of seeing one and was very impressed. It is a micro traditional sailboat with efficiency and utility as its banners. It reminded me of a Havsfidra in its elegant traditional lines and hull and its spartan yet thought out interior. If I were offered one I would take it in a split second. The owner I know had only two complaits after 2 years of living on it. 

1. it took him a while to get use to how it handles in fowl weather. 

2. it took him only one time to figure out never sleep on the port sette' with the table down! 

I guess it really boils down to how and where you sail, short hops or long hauls. Also, can it handle provisioning for those hauls.

Loving what you sail is important, if it is a proverbial FIT then there should be no reason to change unless the idea of your FIT changes.


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## cstpt (Jul 10, 2012)

Living, even short term, on a 20' boat requires a special kind of person with a degree of agility. We are of compact size but at an age where the pup tent doesn't hold the same appeal as it once did.

Provisioning and even sleeping on the boat doesn't factor into the equation for now. We are fortunate enough to live 10 minutes from the marina. Schedules and preferences preclude anything other than daysails so there is no point in trying to create a house on the water. 

I guess it comes down to the outfitting of the boat and whether to invest thousands more into this boat while my eye is still scanning the want ads wondering if the 'perfect' boat is out there. (That drives the first mate crazy.) That may never change.

It may be an unanswerable question, but I appreciate the insight of those who have gone down this path already.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Nice boat for a daysailor, room for 2, but when the weather unexpectedly turns real nasty, which it can in your area, something over 30 feet makes life a lot more bearable and comfortable. I had a Catalina 27 for about 5 years, nice boat for daysailing, not too uncomfortable for overnighters and weekends, but after about 4 days aboard, especially during mid summer, that boat sure felt a lot smaller, especially when there were three of aboard.

Good luck,

Gary


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## cstpt (Jul 10, 2012)

>when the weather unexpectedly turns real nasty, which it can in your area, something over 30 feet makes life a lot more bearable and comfortable. <

How much of this comment refers to being holed up inside a larger boat during periods of inclement weather and how much to the handling of the boat in rough conditions? I'm not too inclined in this boat to venture beyond where I can beat it back in the face of an approaching storm, although you are right, they can come up pretty quickly.


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## smallboatlover (May 11, 2011)

yes bigger is always always always better


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## bljones (Oct 13, 2008)

The Nordica 20 is a hell of a package, and for daysailing/occasional weekending is damn near ideal for lake ontario. Tough, stable, forgiving, with simple easy to handle systems , she may not be the fastest boat on the lake, but you'll be reefing and grinning while everyone else is hunkered and bunkered in their slips.
i think if you were to start searching for a boat you might be surprised how big you have to go and how much you have to spend before you have a result superior to your nordica.


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## Finallybuyingaboat (Aug 28, 2007)

Just my 2 cents, but if you are:
1) looking for something with more cockpit room
2) not going to be spending many nights onboard as you daysail it
3) On Lake Ontario
4) Budget minded

One boat I can definitely recommend is the Shark 24. I went from a Grampian 23 to my Shark about 4 years ago. The Grampian had the same issue as your current boat, a tiny cockpit. 

Paid less for the shark than I sold my Grampian for and it is a great boat. I use my boat much like you do, and love the shark for it's size, great ability to point, and very budget friendly. 

I do sleep on it a few times over the summer, and two people can sleep on it okay; with maybe a small kid in the V berth. Not much cabin room to be honest, but enough for my purpose.

If you look around, you should be able to find one for around $3000 or less. (Sure, some of the decked out racing ones are going for $10K). Plus, given the number of Sharks around Lake Ontario, there are a lot of used sails out there at reasonable prices. Based on the picture in your post, I would imagine there is a Shark in that Marina for you to take a look at. There aren't many Marina's on Lake Ontario that don't have a Shark or two docked.


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## barefootnavigator (Mar 12, 2012)

My ex wife swore to me that size doesn't matter but then again she is my ex so maybe "DUHH" it does. I sail a silly little 22' er and am realistically looking to move up to a 50 plus foot gaff schooner. The simple truth is that this is America where bigger is always better, so yes size matters


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## Windfreighter (Dec 12, 2012)

Finallybuyingaboat,
I read in your post when you were considering purchasing the Shark that it came with wood spinnaker poles.
I am searching for a wood spinnaker pole for my classic 23' wood race boat Crusader. I race with a Shark spinnaker and borrowed aluminum pole so the dimensions work for me. any chance you can part with your ol wood pole? 
Thank you,
Windfreighter


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

Bigger is almost NEVER better, unless "bigger" is merely a consequence of something else that you want and/or need.

That is, need standing headroom for a 6-footer? Hard to find that in a 20-foot boat, so you need to go bigger. Need three staterooms? Hard to find that in a 25-foot boat, so you need to go bigger.

But bigger just because you want bigger? Then the 1970s pop-psychologist in me says that you're probably just trying to compensate for your other short-comings (if you know what I mean).


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## truewin (Jan 23, 2013)

AncientTech, you said your friend with the Nordica 20 had to get used to how it handled in foul weather. What did you mean by this? I have heard that Halman 20s don't have a deep enough draft to head upwind and tack in a chop of over3 feet and have to be gybed. Is this the problem your friend has? I thought Nordicas had more draft and were better upwind and in heavier seas. Please let me know what you meant. 

Thanks.


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## truewin (Jan 23, 2013)

CSTPT,

Did you go bigger or do you still have your Nordica? Do you know what AncientTech was referring to when he commented about his friend having to get used to how a Nordica 20 handled in foul weather? Can you point and tack very well when heading windward into chop or do you have to jibe? That is the problem I had with the boat I just sold, a Crealock 23 ft Clipper Marine with a twin keel draft of 2'4" (Log in). But with its flat bottom, downwind it was a speed demon.

Any info you can provide on how a Nordica handles, in all kinds of conditions, is greatly appreciated.

Thank you.


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## Markwesti (Jan 1, 2013)

For us it wasn't so much we wanted bigger . It was we wanted to stand up when below.


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## Alsailing (Feb 8, 2012)

smallboatlover said:


> yes bigger is always always always better


I've on 33 and 27 foot sail boats ,but when I look back the happiest I ever was on a boat was when I was on a 20 ft heavy weather boat , she could handle 50 knts +. With bigger comes bigger worries bigger costs. There are two boats I'm looking at for ME , a halman 20 and a Tanzer 7.5 (24) , but now my finds them to small for her and the dog.

K[QUO[/QUOTE]


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## Westsailforever (Jul 9, 2014)

That is one salty 20 footer, I love it ! NORDICA 20 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
Can you stand up down below ? Our first boat was a O'Day 23 we would still probably have it except we could not stand up below . That wasn't a big deal for a weekend , but a week or two at Catalina Island and we were hurting .


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## cstpt (Jul 10, 2012)

With the recent post, I noticed a question was put to me which I never answered.

I still have the Nordica 20, just finishing my fourth season. I've invested a fair bit of time, effort and money: a new motor, mainsail, cushions, halyards and lazy jacks, replaced thru hulls & cockpit drains, new halyards run back to the cockpit, re-bedded all deck hardware and made some mods to the interior. At this point, she is a real pleasure to own. 

Any thoughts of going bigger (or better--a Flicka might be a nice upgrade) are not driven by a compensatory mechanism, as was suggested, I assume tongue-in-cheek, but primarily by the idea of gaining cockpit and cabin space, making the boat a little closer to a cottage than a tent. These thoughts are, however, tempered by not wanting to lose any of the handling ease which I now enjoy. I'm single handed almost all the time, and am very comfortable handling her by myself, both on the water and at the dock. With both boat and motor tillers right at hand, she's more maneuverable in close quarters than a lot of the other boats I see. 

I've been out in rough but not ferocious conditions. Despite the short length, the broad beam and low freeboard combined with full keel create a lot of stability. I sailed the first season with an old mainsail with no reef points; combined with my inexperience that made for a few hairy moments. Being able to reef removed any nagging fears about staying upright. 

I tend to backwind the jib as a matter of course; the bow appreciates the extra shove, and I am not going to set any speed records for tacking (or anything else). I've yet to encounter the situation where I can't bring the bow around.

The biggest issue with weather is that even with an extra long shaft and a new motor mount the prop comes out of the water pretty easily when motoring against chop. If I were forced to motor any distance in unfavourable conditions it would be a tough slog. I think this is common to most outboards hung off the transom, but it's probably worse with a double ender. I know the best solution is an inboard, but that has its own drawbacks. I wonder about outboard wells, though I understand they create drag.

I get a lot of compliments on the Nordica from those who appreciate the salty stance. She is built like a tank and willing to withstand a lot from the captain and the weather.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

If anyone is actually looking for Halman 20, there's one for sale at my marina, clicky


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## Marcaiche (Aug 30, 2014)

Cstpt,

You've got a truly solid pocket-cruiser in the Nordica...I'd find it hard to part with if I had one, even though I prefer a hull with a cut-away fore-foot. Truly enjoyed the one sail I made in a Nordica though. That being said a Flicka would be a wonderful choice if you decide to make an "up-bump" in size.

The issue with the outboard is a prevalent one in anything that size. The little Alacrity I had years ago was a bugger under aux-power into any kind of chop. My Electra, however, really cuts through the muck. If it wasn't for the considerable overhang on the stern there'd be no problems. I have considered modding her with an outboard well between the cockpit and transom but just can't bring myself to start the hack job, even though she'd be a lot more graceful aft without the outboard mount...


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

I've moved up in boat size four times over my 40+ years of sailing. Current boat is a Cal 33 and it suits me and wife perfectly for us at this point in our lives. Small enough to easily daysail and large enough for comfortable longer cruises, even with guests. 

That said, bigger is not always better. I was at anchor at Block Island this summer when a couple in a dinghy hailed us said they used to own a Cal 33. Sold it several years ago and bought a 48 footer and said they were sorry. Too much boat to easily handle by just the two of them.


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