# dnf because of county police boat?



## CalebD

We raced last Sunday on the Hudson near the Tappan Zee. 
One of the PHRF racing fleet was stopped by a Westchester county police boat.
I was not nearby when the sailboat was "pulled over" so I am not sure what prompted them to do so.
End result: stopped boat received a dnf for the race and a citation for "improper speed". WTF? Improper speed? 
I guess all their flares were not expired and their pollution placards were in place, but "improper speed"? On a 30+ foot sailboat? Really?

If I find out more details I will post but at first blush this seems like the LEO's were having fun harassing these sailors, nothing more.


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## knothead

I would be interested in hearing the facts about this. Never heard of a sailboat being cited for excessive/improper speed. There must be something else going on.


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## capttb

It's an issue that has had to be addressed in other places subject to inland rules.
http://www.thelog.com/Local/Article/Newport-Harbor-Speed-Limit-Exemption-Gets-Council-Nod


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## CalebD

@knotty,
Agreed. I do not know the full story and I was not on the stopped sailboat. Much I do not know.

@capttb,
That is all well and good for Newport Beach Harbor but the area this boat was stopped in is a navigable channel that tugs with barges and other commercial traffic come through at 10+ knots regularly.
I'm pretty sure the guy was not in any 5 mph speed limit area. He did say he kind of "buzzed" the police boat after he rounded an upwind mark. My guess is that the police boat thought the guy came too close to him and "pulled him over" for it.
I still don't get the "improper speed" citation though.


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## Unkle Toad

if your going to "buzz" a police boat you must be going at least 8 knotts .. I think I read that somewhere .. 

seriously I really like finding out about these things and how different laws and stuff work in different areas I am interested to find out what really happened and why they were stopped.


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## Ajax_MD

Is it possible that the police thought that he was going to slow in the channel, creating a hazard? "Improper speed" doesn't have to mean speeding.

Even so, the charge is bunk. Sounds like the Law just had a bug up their ass that day.


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## Seaduction

Geeesh! The nerve of those cops; parking right next to a racing buoy and getting irked because the racer "buzzed" them?! Like sitting on the track at the Daytona 500 and pulling over the "speeders" whizzing by!:hothead


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## Sal Paradise

On the Hudson River we have many police boats. This has been written up extensively in local papers such as the Times Herald Record. One guy got stopped like 8 different times crossing Newburgh Bay a few years ago, each time by a different agaency. The local talk is that any boat with women in bikinis will get stopped at least 4 times in a day. 

They stop boats just because that is the job. There are damn few rescues and almost no crime. Difficult to justify a $200,000 boat and two $100,000 salaries and then put no stops on the daily report. Many LE's on these boats come off as smug and heavy handed and they probably couldn't care less about a sailboat race. They want to make a stop, they make it. Expired flares are a favorite citation on the Hudson. And if they can't find anything to write, they write something vague. I have been stopped because they " couldn't see my registration sticker" I pointed to the bow and said - its right there. Then they said they wanted to do a safety check. Mandatory. The boat could have been stopped just because they were close and caught the attention of the officers.


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## zz4gta

More facts please.


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## RobGallagher

Yea, more facts.

Some, notice I use the word "some", racers can be very rude. Someone should have put the word "RACERS" under seaplanes in the ColRegs pecking order. 

edit: Colregs and Inland rules as S/V Auspicious so kindly pointed out.


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## CalebD

Ok, so I did hear from the fellow who was stopped. 
Apparently the Westchester County police boat was hovering near the #8 buoy which was the upwind mark.
The sailboat trying to make the mark initially tried to head in front of the police boat which was moving. Then he changed course to pass the police boat by the stern which was about when they stopped him. 
Sounds to me as though the sailboat was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Perhaps I could also say that the police boat was as well.
Obviously the racer's course took him within close proximity to the police boat which seems to be the reason for boarding.
I still don't get the "improper speed" citation though.

I'll be giving any/all LE vessels a wide berth even when racing. We sometimes have to dodge tugs with barges and other large ships; this just adds one more category of boats to avoid.


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## SlowButSteady

It sounds more like "improper speed close to another vessel", rather than "improper speed" _per se_. It also sounds a bit like the cops thought there was going to be a collision, got a little pissed, and went after the sailboat for anything they could think of. Depending on how close the sailboat cut it, I might be pissed too. Face it, racing boats are still obligated to follow the COLREGS, or Inland Rules, as the case may be.


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## Brent Swain

One could always go to court, plead not guilty, then stall the procces as many times as possible, to make them wait for hours at a time til their case comes up, then ask the judge for another delay, on any excuse you can come up with. They hand out tickets on the assumption that you will simply plead guilty, which only encourages them to be abusive.


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## boz86

Brent Swain said:


> One could always go to court, plead not guilty, then stall the procces as many times as possible, to make them wait for hours at a time til their case comes up, then ask the judge for another delay, on any excuse you can come up with. They hand out tickets on the assumption that you will simply plead guilty, which only encourages them to be abusive.


In some jurisdictions they might be on overtime for court days, could care less if you delay. They're getting paid anyway.


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## knothead

CalebD said:


> Ok, so I did hear from the fellow who was stopped.
> Apparently the Westchester County police boat was hovering near the #8 buoy which was the upwind mark.
> The sailboat trying to make the mark initially tried to head in front of the police boat which was moving. Then he changed course to pass the police boat by the stern which was about when they stopped him.
> Sounds to me as though the sailboat was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Perhaps I could also say that the police boat was as well.
> Obviously the racer's course took him within close proximity to the police boat which seems to be the reason for boarding.
> I still don't get the "improper speed" citation though.
> 
> I'll be giving any/all LE vessels a wide berth even when racing. We sometimes have to dodge tugs with barges and other large ships; this just adds one more category of boats to avoid.


Aren't the local authorities notified of scheduled races. Even if they wern't, it's usually pretty obvious when a race is in progress. What was the police boat doing sitting in the middle of a race?
Sounds like a simple case of cop on a power trip. 
They are never wrong. Even when they are.


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## CalebD

@Knotty,

Yes, that is one of the things some club members are hoping the club will do is notify the various LE authorities of our racing schedule, including the buoys we use and our racing schedule. 
I agree that the cop(s) wanted to issue some kind of citation to him and when they found that his flares were un-expired, pollution placards in place, adequate pfds they chose "inappropriate speed".

@SBS,
I'm sure that is what the LEO's on the police boat thought. The conditions were light winds (10 k or less) so he could not have been going much more than 5 knots BUT he was likely quite close to them.

If I got this citation I would protest it in court though. Poor little 40' police boat with 400 HP engines threatened by sailboat moving 5 mph. 

Another suggestion I heard was for the owner to frame the citation which is essentially for "speeding" in a keel sailboat. How often does that happen?


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## Sal Paradise

I would frame it and hang it up. Definitely 

The cops probably felt it was bold to sail so close to them, they were probably unaware the buoy was a marker, or that a race was even going on. Or they may have thought it was annoying that all those sailboats were cluttering up the channel.


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## steel

Isn't a power boat still to give way to a sailboat under sail? If they kept heading across the bow of the police boat I thought the police would have to give way.


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## miatapaul

CalebD said:


> Ok, so I did hear from the fellow who was stopped.
> Apparently the Westchester County police boat was hovering near the #8 buoy which was the upwind mark.
> The sailboat trying to make the mark initially tried to head in front of the police boat which was moving. Then he changed course to pass the police boat by the stern which was about when they stopped him.
> Sounds to me as though the sailboat was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Perhaps I could also say that the police boat was as well.
> Obviously the racer's course took him within close proximity to the police boat which seems to be the reason for boarding.
> I still don't get the "improper speed" citation though.
> 
> I'll be giving any/all LE vessels a wide berth even when racing. We sometimes have to dodge tugs with barges and other large ships; this just adds one more category of boats to avoid.


I would suggest that the person contact Senator Charles Shumer, as he is supposed to be working with the local LEOs to reduce the number of boardings and get them to communicate between themselves.








steel said:


> Isn't a power boat still to give way to a sailboat under sail? If they kept heading across the bow of the police boat I thought the police would have to give way.


Good luck with that. I would doubt they even know the rules of the water. They sure are not going to give right away even if it is due. On the Hudson they are thick with post 911 "Homeland Security" money every department has boats and they like to show there presence.


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## zz4gta

This is nothing more than abuse of power. I'd fight this tooth and nail. 
Color regs do apply and the LEOs either don't know them (bad enough) or feel that they're above the law (even worse). 

The sailboat didn't break any laws. Period. I honestly would try and make an example out of this situation and involve people from the club and other local officials. It's bull$hit. They have nothing else better to do so they abuse the little power that has been given to them.


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## CalebD

zz4gta said:


> This is nothing more than abuse of power. I'd fight this tooth and nail.
> Color regs do apply and the LEOs either don't know them (bad enough) or feel that they're above the law (even worse).
> 
> The sailboat didn't break any laws. Period. I honestly would try and make an example out of this situation and involve people from the club and other local officials. It's bull$hit. They have nothing else better to do so they abuse the little power that has been given to them.


While part of me agrees with this sentiment the slightly more practical side of me thinks that it is important to pick your battles wisely. In this case I believe that the owner who was given a citation may very well see it thrown out in court. 
There is an active racing program at this club and I am certain that some action (however minor) will be undertaken on behalf of the racers.

Thanks for the Chuck Schumer link Miatapaul.


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## boatpoker

steel said:


> Isn't a power boat still to give way to a sailboat under sail? If they kept heading across the bow of the police boat I thought the police would have to give way.


Not necessarily. The sailboat is the "stand on" vessel and must maintain his course. The police boat was the "give way" vessel.

If the sailboat was rapidly changing course while rounding a mark he was not "standing" on his course.

This is a regular argument between power and sailboats. It makes things very difficult for a powerboat trying to stay out of the way of a sailboat when the sailboat jibes and tacks and demands that the powerboat keep changing course to stay out of its way. If this is what happened I don't blame the cops for being ticked off.


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## CalebD

boatpoker said:


> If the sailboat was rapidly changing course while rounding a mark he was not "standing" on his course.
> 
> This is a regular argument between power and sailboats. It makes things very difficult for a powerboat trying to stay out of the way of a sailboat when the sailboat jibes and tacks and demands that the powerboat keep changing course to stay out of its way. Ifthis is what happened I don't blame the cops for being ticked off.


I mostly agree with this. I'm pretty sure that the COLREGS do not mention a boat engaged in racing as being exempt from the navigation rules. Often, racing skippers assume that their race is the tantamount consideration and they are quite used to maneuvering in tight quarters with each other.

Perhaps a polite call on channel 16 would have alerted the police boat of the sailboat's intentions. Perhaps not.

I still don't understand how a sailboat traveling 5 knots is moving at an 'improper speed'. I also have no clew as to why the police were hanging around a navigation buoy in the first place, but of course they can go where they damn well please, can't they?


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## Minnewaska

Do we know the full story here yet? While the LEOs may have been jackwads, so may have been the sailboat. 

People always assume based upon their predispositions.


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## CalebD

Yes, Minne.
I heard from the owner of the sailboat who was stopped.
He used the word "buzzed" to describe how he encountered the police boat. He was in pretty close quarters with the fuzz and initially attempted to pass their bow but changed course to pass them astern. The boats had to be in close proximity. 
The sailboat owner thought he was racing and trying to make his upwind mark.
The police boat thought the sailboat was razzing him by getting so close.

If the police boat had not been hanging around the windward mark this would likely not have happened.


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## Minnewaska

Interesting situation. I'm trying to think of how I would handle it. I do not think I would have buzzed the LEO, but if I did, I would have shouted an apology to be sure we were good. I wonder what they actually did. Any chance they felt the LEO was in the way and deserved it? If so..........


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## MarkofSeaLife

A sailboat in a race will maneuver much much closer than someone who is not in a race or a racer.
Many cross tacking situations the give way boat will miss the stern of the stand on vessel by just a foot or two. It's normal in racing but freaks the non racers out.

I guess the cops don't know nothing about racing.

Stupid of them.
The racer should take it to court.


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## Minnewaska

MarkofSeaLife said:


> .....
> 
> I guess the cops don't know nothing about racing.
> 
> Stupid of them.
> The racer should take it to court.


The racer should take it into account. If you race, the idea that you come in much closer quarter than most are comfortable with, should be well understood. It would typically take a bit of diplomacy and tact to undertstand that and defuse a situation, before it becomes an issue.

While these LEOs could be jackwads, all LEOs deal with aggressive "I hate LEO" personalities everyday. Easy job to become jaded before you've ever done anything.


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## MarkofSeaLife

I do get your point.

I don't know what an LEO is but water police should understand what goes on in their jurisdiction.

Many racers have been in races where one mark stuffed up means much more than one race.
When I was doing Olympic trials the whole fleet finished inside 2 minutes. The difference between one tiny slip up was the difference between getting a place and coming 14th.

Even 8 year old kids in Optimists are going to shave the butt of a boat that's between them and a mark.


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## Minnewaska

MarkofSeaLife said:


> .....
> 
> Even 8 year old kids in Optimists are going to shave the butt of a boat that's between them and a mark.


Yup, I do it all the time with another sailboat on a conflicting tack. At least close enough that non-sailing passengers think we're going to crash. Usually, the other skipper and I pass a non-plussed waive from our respective side deck perch.

I would never do that with a power boat, especially an LEO (law enforcement officer) that I would have no reason to think would understand.


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## AKscooter

Yes, lets bow down to the all powerful LEOs who couldn't possibly be aware of their surroundings and the situation of being in the MIDDLE of a frickin' ongoing race. Their job is not to escalate a situation or create a hazard. Yet, they managed to do both. Another example of a brain dead captain with authority. Also, please show me the sailboat that can outmaneuver/outrun the LEO's craft.


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## Minnewaska

It's predictable that those with a chip on their shoulder are the most likely to cause and/or stumble into their own anticipated confrontation.


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## JimMcGee

At five to six knots this situation had to develop slowly. Maybe a call on the VHF to alert the LEO that he was parked in the middle of an ongoing race?

And maybe once the sailboat was stopped and the situation explained the LEO could have chosen "protect and serve" over "harass and ticket"?

The sailor could have taken steps to mitigate the situation. Especially knowing that they're dealing with a law enforcement culture in that area whose behavior has attracted criticism from the press and a US Senator.

And I would absolutely fight that ticket.


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## CalebD

I am with those who suggested a call on channel 16 vhf to the police boat to warn him your intended course would be close to him if he remained near the navigation buoy.

I am sure that the olympic trials are very cutthroat and every millisecond counts. This was not the olympics but a Sunday around the cans race. Likelyhood of losing 1 more Sardine dish prize is not much.


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## bubb2

Caled, you guys sail mostly in Rockland co. waters. If I were the capt. of the sailboat I were make sure I was in his jurisdiction (Westchester co.) , just saying. you should have Lat/Lon on your marks.


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## Donna_F

It sounds like the race was using a regular ATON as a race mark? If so, perhaps LE legitimately did not realize a race was in progress. I originally thought that the marks were regular racing marks (not ATONs) and would clearly indicate a sail race but in re-reading, perhaps the sailboat doesn't have as good an argument against the citation.

Just a thought.


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## CalebD

We do have club maintained racing buoys out in the river BUT we also use the ATON (thanks for that donna) Red #8 (& #10) channel marker as one of the potential marks. Red #8 is closer to the Westchester side near Tarrytown, which is where the sailboat was stopped & boarded.


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## RobGallagher

OK, I was not gonna reply to this thread again, but here I go....

Racers tend to bear down on other people, getting all to close and leaving one to wonder if it's not time for radical evasive action. Racers expect right-of-way just because they are racing.

Racing means nothing to those who are not in the race. Often non-racers show them courtesy just because. Most of the time they get more than they deserve and give little to nothing in return when it comes to courtesy.

Speak up if you haven't heard the "HEY! WE ARE RACING YA KNOW!" line from someone expecting you to move out of their way just because.

Speak up if you haven't shown some racers courtesy by letting them all pass or taking the long way around even though you have right of way only to get dirty looks from them for messing up their air.

(insert cricket sounds here)

I know, it's not all of them, but the very loud minority make a lot of noise.


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## SVAuspicious

Vocabulary is important. COLREGS aren't relevant. Inland Rules are.


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## lowtide

We used to invite them to the Night Before party to go over course and safety, but mostly to gain their trust and cooperation.

Once they realize how serious many racers are, and their level of skill, they are more likely to be a help. They will show up for a free dinner, and might even learn a little about sailboats, as they often know absolutely nothing about them.



'


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## RonRelyea

lowtide said:


> We used to invite them to the Night Before party to go over course and safety, but mostly to gain their trust and cooperation.
> 
> Once they realize how serious many racers are, and their level of skill, they are more likely to be a help. They will show up for a free dinner, and might even learn a little about sailboats, as they often know absolutely nothing about them.
> '


yeah ... but .... on the Hudson, you might be dealing with Sheriff departments from 4 different counties, may two or three town police, not to mention the Coast Guard. you'd go broke quick inviting them all to a party!


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## Caddy

Lessons learned
1) don't assume that just because you are racing that others know what you are doing. 
2) a call on VHF would have been a great idea if the hand held was in reach. 
3) it is amazing what people who were not there assume
4) Leo are just doing their job
5) nyack folks rock

Out


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## delite

Unfortunately around here most LEO's on the water tend to be auxiliary officers and have zero boat handling skills and limited knowledge of the COLREGs or other rules. They dont pull alongside so often that it is problematic and usually are only concerned about alcohol and life jackets. Fortunately they rarely have an attitude unless you have one.

Sounds like this guy was power tripping but the skipper probably could have hollered his intentions given how close they must have been.


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## hellosailor

Caleb, it definitely sounds like the racer ducked and weaved near the police boat, and the po'd the watercops and it escalated from there.

FWIW, if the official NOAA charts don't mark something as a named channel--it isn't a channel, no matter what the locals call it. You can't be cited for violating a "channel" unless it is legally marked as one on the charts. (Well, you can be cited, but you can get that thrown out by simply pointing out it is incorrect. And then the idiot who wrote it can earn brownie points on his permanent record.)

Lots of upstate NY is political. The lack of qualifications for local justices has made the national news, and the State doesn't want to change it. Local PDs and POs...let's just say there's a reason the State Police consider themselves to be cut from a different cloth than most of the locals including county pd's.

Darting back and forth around a cop of any kind, not a smart idea, on land or sea though.

Paul-
"Chuckles" Schumer is no friend of boaters or anyone else. He's got a long history of being the first schmuck to open his mouth in front of the cameras anytime there's anything that he can possibly use to get free publicity, while he actually does damn little to build a better state. Chuckles (as in the clown, yes) spouts his yob off every time he can get his face on the Nooze, but don't expect him to actually do anything unless it can buy him large blocks of votes. He and Hillary made a great pair, for a while.


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## Sal Paradise

hellosailor;1047602
Lots of upstate NY is political. The lack of qualifications for local justices has made the national news said:


> I agree 100%. NY has terrible town judges. The worst idiots you will ever stand in front of. Be very afraid.


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## Cap'n Russ

I personally got to experience the result of a slow night in Baltimore's Inner Harbour when I got stopped and boarded by the USCG for a "safety inspection" literally insight of where we were going to tie up for the night. As the boarding officer was filling out the paperwork (we passed the inspection), he asked me if my sailboat was a monohull or catamaran. It was all I could do to reply "monohull" without any snide commentary...


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## hellosailor

Monohull or a .... No, its a "hoodie". You know, "be on the lookout for a black male in a hoodie"? Well, this is a _hoodie_. Honest. Just fill it in, don't worry about the little checkboxes.

Kinda sounds like the lines about "blind justice" in Alice's Restaurant, doesn't it?


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## Cap'n Russ

Yep, wish I had snapped an 8 x 10 color glossy photograph!


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## Sal Paradise

I hate to even mention, but my local PD ( on the Hudson) has 2 30 foot twin engine police boats and ---they just got 2 more this spring, even bigger and faster. 

Gotta justify that homeland security money.....somehow


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## hellosailor

Actually it is hard not to justify the local authorities having the fastest boats. Since Prohibition the bad guys have tried to outrun the good guys and they've always been able to do so because "crime pays" and the money for faster boats and bigger engines doesn't have to get past some budget committee.

In the badboy Miami Vice days the USCG on LI Sound used to keep chasing a gofast boat they could never catch. Until Mr. Gofast stuffed a deadhead through his hull one dark night. That's typical, kevlar hulls cost even more money and they were still almost unheard of back then.

But whether it is trying to get to MOBs before they drown (that Hudson gets cold in the winter) or catch bad guys, it is hard to see why "more speed" wouldn't be a very good thing.

And they can make extra donut money by giving the tourists jet boat rides in the summer.


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## Sal Paradise

I don't buy it. 

There aint but one direction you can really go on the river - if you start in the south you can only go north and vice versa.. a radio and a pair of eyeballs is all the speed you need..and the river is probably the worst way to move contraband - there are plenty of people doing that on the highway... and they launch rescues from a ramp thats usually in sight, meaning a few miles. 

Its not that the new boats are even any faster than the "old" ones anyway.. its just the simple fact that they have the money to spend, so new boats it is and thus the circle of life as they produce a paper trail to justify the million dollars. 

I haven't heard of any police rescues during the winter. The only traffic is barges and tug boats.


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## chef2sail

Cap'n Russ said:


> I personally got to experience the result of a slow night in Baltimore's Inner Harbour when I got stopped and boarded by the USCG for a "safety inspection" literally insight of where we were going to tie up for the night. As the boarding officer was filling out the paperwork (we passed the inspection), he asked me if my sailboat was a monohull or catamaran. It was all I could do to reply "monohull" without any snide commentary...


While the monohull remark may show lack of knowledge by the CG officer , you remark about the "slow night" in the Inner Harbor shows yours.

The Inner Harbor has been an obvious terror target for years with the shipping, port docks, tourist attractions, and the cruise ship facilities nearby. There has been an increased threat noted for the last two months with frequent stops and inspections of vessels of all types.

I applaud them for doing their job in keeping us all safe.

Seems silly he didn't know the difference between a monohull and a catamaran and shows a lack of detail on his inspection.


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## hellosailor

"I haven't heard of any police rescues during the winter."
Maybe you missed the Cessna(?) that ditched this spring with water temps still in the low 40's. Two men in the water and I think the police boat launched out of Ossining with just a partial phone call for position. They recovered both men before the water could kill them, and considering the Hudson can get into the low 30's in the winter, you may only have 15 minutes before the diaphragm muscles paralyze and you suffocate. Then you drown. Well, technically you don't drown because you're already dead from not being able to breath.
Upriver, downriver, not much difference. Aircraft follow the river, small craft overturn, and homeland security grants, well, one can always hope some deserving local charity got a chance to bid on the old used boats.
Hey, race you to the donut shop!


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## Sal Paradise

Hey , I'm not cop bashing, the donut shop is your deal. 

Are you any more alive or is the water any warmer because after the first boat pulls you out, then 6 million dollars of personnel and equipment arrives and idles out in the river for 6 hours??

We just had a boat run into what is reported to be an unlighted barge on the Tappen Zee job. Tragedy. 

Does it justify the money and personnel currently doing enforcement on the river? I don't think so, most sailors and power boaters I talk to think the same. YMMV


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## hellosailor

I wonder how many gallons of Gneuine Marine Grade Glow In The Dark Barge Paint they could buy for the price of one gofast boat?

More likely now the politicians will campaign to install streetlights all up and down and across the river. I'd better get my bid on that contract in now, its gonna be a lucrative one.

And then once everyone has a gofaster boat, they'll need armored amphibians. Just in case the British come back, and we need a fast way to deploy that chain boom across West Point again.

Whether the barge was lit or not...You know, the same they teach drivers about "don't overun your headlights at night" ? If you can't see what's out there, SLOW DOWN. If you're too drunk to see what's out there, GO HOME AND GET ANOTHER BEER. 

Funny how beer and donuts don't mix, isn't it?


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## bubb2

There are special anchorages around the bridge. If the barge was sitting in one of those it didn't need to be lit


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## CalebD

I'm not sure about the special anchorage but they hit one of the stationary barges on the south side of the TZ bridge, which would be almost on the course from Piermont to Tarrytown. 
I know that the few barges on the north side of the bridge had very poor lighting, if any, for night time visibility because I sailed by them at night a month ago.
Stationary objects on the water are to be avoided which we all know, or think we know.


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## bubb2

Cabel, we had the CG come to Tarrytown a year or so ago when the go ahead for the new bridge was given as there was a lot of concern how it would effect our marina. The CG talked about the barges and how they would be setting up special anchorages for them and make notifications by way of "notice to mariners" I don't know for sure if that was done in this case. BTW your mooring field sits in a charted "special anchorage" That's why you don't have to have anchor lights over night.


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## hellosailor

The average recreational boater doesn't know the Notice to Mariners exists, much less subscribe to it. Or have any idea why an anchorage might be "special" or how it could fit in a remedial education classroom. (Duh.)

Not to be cruel, but I'm thinking Darwin Award on this one.


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## bubb2

I am not defending the boat's operator. I am tired of seeing the Rockland Co. sheriff saying on TV that the barge was unlit using a tone that others are also responsible. 
There is a real possibility that the barge didn't need to lit.


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## downeast450

I grew up on the Hudson back in the 50's and 60's. A different world for sure. The Croton River was my home. We were charter members of the River Rat Club, now known as the Croton Yacht Club. I played, sailed and hunted on the Hudson from Bear Mt. to Piermont. My first "big boat" sailing experience was with Bernie Lewis on Haverstraw Bay. Things were simpler then! Great time to enjoy those environs. I can remember the center span of the Tappanzee Bridge being "settled" in place using the tide. Cool!

I have to believe that our feeling of "wide open space and freedom" would be much different today. It is a beautiful river! We are planning a cruise up the Hudson in the future and were considering attending my 50th hs reunion next fall by sailing to Croton.

Yikes!

Down


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## miatapaul

hellosailor said:


> The average recreational boater doesn't know the Notice to Mariners exists, much less subscribe to it. Or have any idea why an anchorage might be "special" or how it could fit in a remedial education classroom. (Duh.)
> 
> Not to be cruel, but I'm thinking Darwin Award on this one.


Well I have to agree to the Darwin Award if it was the operator who had died, unfortunately that was not the case. If they were out in daylight he should have known that the barges were there. Part of situational awareness, and shame on him if he is not aware of notices to mariners. Though I have never seen a set of charts on a small power boat, and most users likely unable to read one. Besides they don't do much good when you are blasting away in the dark.


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