# If you don't know how to anchor... DON'T !!!!!!



## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

That's it, I'm fed up and need to vent. Go ahead and flame me for it but I'm at my wits end here..

This weekend my wife and I, with the baby, were anchored over night in beautiful little Maine coast spot. The holding in soft but good and I've anchored there over 100+ times with zero issues and never once a drag.

On Saturday it was totally benign and glass like but NOAA had been calling for winds building overnight. Well, to make a long story short, a 40+ foot Rival, hailing from Edgartown Martha's Vinyard comes in and drops anchor in front of us while we were off hiking the islands trails.

As I came back from hiking I looked and saw an all chain rode hanging vertically as they do when it's calm. No way to really tell scope! About 3:00 a.m. in the morning the wind began to fill in from the SW at about 12-15 knots. I woke up and checked the harbor every half hour and all was fine.

At about 6:30 am I poke my head up and the large Rival from Martha's Vineyard is bearing down on us and we are about 40 feet away from spearing her about mid ship. I immediately hopped into the dink and, as I've done before, because this is all to common, rammed my bow under her quarter stern and cranked the throttle wide open while smacking the hull as loudly as I could to rouse the occupants.

Within seconds a "friend" comes on deck and and just stares. I yell to him to get the motor running or the sails up as they have little time before they are on the rocks. This boat was heavy and I was barely able to push her stern clear of our boat with my small 4hp out board. I managed to squeeze the dink between the two boats to prevent "glass on glass" and his rudder snagged on my anchor rode. A quick push with the oar on my rode made it slip down off his rudder. Whew!

By now it had been a very long pregnant pause of at least 90 seconds before the owner pokes his head up on deck. He finally starts the engine and proceeds to back his boat up! At this point I again see him heading for my hull and ram his stern with my dink again to shove him off.. I managed to protect my boat, a second time, but I'm fed up with IDIOTS like this!!!

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE if you have no clue how to anchor, set an anchor or even know what the word SCOPE means DO NOT anchor and find a marina or rent a mooring! Perhaps I'm a magnet for anchoring morons but this is the second major close call dragging we've had this season alone and both were in very, very MILD conditions where there is NO excuse for dragging.

These idiots need to understand they are dealing with five to seven figure investments and careless moronic behavior will not be tolerated, at least by me, anymore. Of course these numb skulls clearly are NOT reading sailing forums or they would, by now, know how to properly set an anchor!!

I have added a photo of the offending boat so that if others encounter this fool you will know to steer clear!!

I challenge everyone who encounters an "Anchoring Idiot" to do the same, post a picture of the offending vessel, so that others will know who these clueless fools are and who to steer clear of in anchorages. Perhaps some public "internet" humiliation will change behavior? Nothing else has.....

There is NO f'ing excuse for dragging an anchor in 12-15 knots! This anchor was clearly NEVER set properly!! I also saw witnessed NO scope markings on the chain so I'm guessing he measures scope through mental telepathy??

Please learn how to anchor before you endanger other peoples lives and property!!!!


 *WARNING, WARNING, WARNING DO NOT ANCHOR ANYWHERE NEAR THIS BOAT !!!!!! HE IS CURRENTLY IN MAINE!!! If you know this fool please let him know that yachtsmanship like his will not be tolerated here in Maine!!








*


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

Quite the rant!


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## cnc33voodoo (May 15, 2008)

amen.
i pitty the fool who ever hits my boat as a result of this.
you should have cut him loose.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

I can see the steam coming off your head.
Don't blame you one bit for the rant, in fact it was very entertaining reading. Nicely done and quick thinking on the "Save our Vessel!"


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

last season at the break of dawn i woke up with "that feeling". i poke my head out the hatch in the vee berth.....nothing unusual. I go back below and wait a minute, then stick my head out again. 

"hey that motor boat (25' Searay or similar) isn't in the same place it was a minute ago."

i get in the kayak and start towards him. he's drifting into a tight anchorage of about 15 sailboats. I bang on his hull very hard for a few minutes with no answer. he drifts within 5 feet of an Ericsson, whose owner is in the cockpit. the Ericsson blasts his air horn a few times at the offending moron. I paddle up to his bow and pull on his rode.....

This a**hole has 10 feet of line out on a danforth not sized to hold a dingy. He was one of the motor boats that nosed up onto a nearby beach the night before and drank himself stupid while cranking southern rock till 2am for the whole 5sq. mile area to enjoy. 

He finally comes into the cockpit after Ericsson owner blasts the air horn like crazy. He looks at both of us and without a word starts his POS up and takes off back toward Annapolis while dragging his ten feet of rode off the bow. I got the hailing port but not the boat name unfortunately


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Halekai-

Thanks for the warning about this idiot... don't really consider it a rant, since it is a common complaint for those of us who do know how to anchor. 

In fact, that looks a lot like the idiot I saw in Tarpaulin Cove last season...


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

I've been hit so many time by idiots I've given up. The worst time was when my boat was brand new I got hit at anchor in broad daylight by an idiot in a 46 foot Irwin. He steamed right at me until he hit me end on. We had to chase him to stop him. Claims to be a "professional" in the charter business. Problem was nobody was keeping a proper lookout while steaming out of an anchorage. The guy on the wheel was looking at a laptop in a corner of the cockpit. Ruined my winter not to mention 20K damage. On top of that he didn't have his insurance papers with him and this was in the Bahamas. A lot of idiots out there. My friends kid that I must have a target on the side of my boat.
ISLANDER Yacht Charters


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> In fact, that looks a lot like the idiot I saw in Tarpaulin Cove last season...


Cool. There's only one guy out there like that! 
I feel better now!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The only reason I think it is the same boat is the red dinghy and the home port are both things I remember.  Don't remember what the name of the boat was though.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Sorry about the fiasco. Nice looking boat, though.

Good flake on the main. A charter, perhaps?

Vessel Documentation Search By Name



halekai36 said:


> [/B]


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## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

You know what will stop stupid people from doing stupid things like this? More government regulation. They should make special licenses that allow you to anchor. You can get different class lisences. A - for mud. B - grass. C - rock.

Now, where's my popcorn.


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## fullkeel7 (Apr 16, 2008)

The owner misnamed his boat....should have been 'NO RATIONALE'!  

Bob


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## Plumper (Nov 21, 2007)

I have been hit twice while at anchor. Both other boats were also anchored but dragging. Neither time was there any damage or anything to get really excited about. I think my chain may have scratched the bottom of one of the boats a little. Both times it was the middle of the night. Both boats had small anchors and too little rode out. They gently drifted down on me and bumped me. I woke up, put out fenders and woke up the guys in the dragging boats. 
When dragging boats bump into other anchored boats in fairly benign conditions, the likelihood of damage is small. The properly anchored boat (mine in these cases) just pushes out of the way.
If the conditions are more severe then an anchor watch is called for and would help to prevent getting hit.
Dragging boats normally drag fairly slowly.

Question - If a boat drags into your swinging circle in Texas and you feel there is a danger to property or life, can you shoot him?


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## zaliasvejas (Jul 18, 2007)

Good rant!
Where do you sail? I want to stay away.... 
Thanks, I will keep an eye out for red dinghied sailboats....
Were you out last weekend? Some wind and waves in Casco Bay, my kids saw our cushions stuck to the ceiling for a moment when we were beating around Bailey Island. 
Good anchoring!


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## lbdavis (Apr 23, 2007)

zaliasvejas said:


> Good rant!
> Where do you sail? I want to stay away....
> Thanks, I will keep an eye out for red dinghied sailboats....
> Were you out last weekend? Some wind and waves in Casco Bay, my kids saw our cushions stuck to the ceiling for a moment when we were beating around Bailey Island.
> Good anchoring!


Agreed! Blowin' Stank on Sunday! Some of our crew were first-timers. Welcome to sailing.  

"Yes. This is very normal. That's called burying a rail."   
"You need to use the head?"


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## linnetwoods (Jul 14, 2008)

*Unchained melodies...*

As a permanent live-aboard, I have seen my share of anchoring nightmares. Once, the guy on the boat in front of us accused us of dragging forwards onto his stern!

A couple of years ago we had been anchored in one spot for a couple of weeks when someone parked slightly closer to our bows than we would have liked and this (how I wish I had made a note of his boat name) German's yacht dragged while he was below.

We have a long, heavy bowsprit and, as his boat approached, my partner called out (this was mid-afternoon) and the guy came up above decks, started his motor and tried to motor his 42' Halberg-Rassy over our 12mm chain... you could hear the sawing on the keel and he wouldn't listen when my husband suggested he go astern. The bowsprit was rearing up and crashing down as the waves rolled in and, gradually, as his whole boat passed under it, his stanchions crumpled, his boat was destroyed and, as a grand finale, his radar dome smashed into a grillion pieces... His dinghy got caught up and had to be cut away (but a kind neighbour grabbed it and later tied it onto the back of our boat) and things were about as bad as they could get for this idiot (not a mark on us)...

He was trying to get his anchor up and my partner yelled at him to buoy it off and drop it, get out of there fast and come back for the ground tackle later. He dumped the tackle but forgot the buoying-off part...

The next day, this idiot came back with a diver in a rib, retrieved his anchor (from way too close to our chain) and took back his dinghy saying "You were too close to me, that's all. It's a matter of seamanship."

Don't you just love those armchair admirals?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Umm... If you were there first, how is it that you were too close to him???


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## Stu01 (Feb 15, 2008)

Halekai,
I think your suggestion for a "Hall of Shame" forum is a good one and would be a good resource.
Stu


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## jimmalkin (Jun 1, 2004)

Halekai - Well - from JRPollard's vessel doc link to google to the Dover Ma assessors office to you - WARDWELL STEPHEN B + / KRISTINA HANSEN 108 PEGAN LN are the people who reside at the address of the SW Venture Partners listed as owners of the offensive/offending boat. We could all send 'em postcards with pictures of anchors?

Hope to see you in mid-coast after 16 August - Best - 

Oh - since this is an anchoring thread of sorts - my new Rocna held on tight in serious weed in Cuttyhunk during this weekend's SE breeze. The plows and cqrs were all plowing through the grass - it was a bit of a fire drill. But unlike your situation, everyone was up on their decks talking to each other and working it out...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Don't believe it is the boat listed in the link JRP posted, since the hailing port for that boat is BOSTON, not EDGARTOWN. 

One evil thought...  If it is the boat, then a call the USCG will screw them, since the boat is marked wrong.  The hailing port on the documentation has to match what is on the boat, and the documentation says BOSTON, not EDGARTOWN.


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## nk235 (Apr 8, 2007)

I posted my observation of this somewhere in another forum but a couple of weekends ago I was anchored in a pretty popular spot in LI sound with boats from all over the map. Gets pretty crowded during weekends. I can't tell you how many 35+ feet searays I saw throw over what looked like a 7lb danforth with all rope rode and put maybe two - one scope. Plus they also rafted 2 other boats up to them and spent the night! Luckily the two nights I was there it was dead calm out but since then I always make sure to pick my spot as far upwind from where the storms usually blow out of so I don't have to worry about these people. I also invested a few hundred bucks in proper and even oversized ground tackle. Too bad other people don't do this.

But man if that happened to my boat - having some fool drag into it I wouldn't be able to take it too well. Its one thing if it happens in a storm or adverse conditions but in normal weather.... I don't think I would be getting my frustrations out on a message board....


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## parttimesailor (Sep 18, 2006)

*Is the Rocna difficult to pull up?*



jimmalkin said:


> Oh - since this is an anchoring thread of sorts - my new Rocna held on tight in serious weed in Cuttyhunk during this weekend's SE breeze. The plows and cqrs were all plowing through the grass - it was a bit of a fire drill. But unlike your situation, everyone was up on their decks talking to each other and working it out...


do you have any issues getting this anchor back on board? the test video made it look difficult. do you need a windlass?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I think it would be really nice if the manufacturers of the damn boats would sell the new ones with a properly sized anchor at least. Used boats are always a crapshoot...but the guys spending the big bucks on the new boats should at least get properly sized ground tackle for their boat bucks.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

linnetwoods said:


> We have a long, heavy bowsprit and, as his boat approached, my partner called out (this was mid-afternoon) and the guy came up above decks, started his motor and tried to motor his 42' Halberg-Rassy over our 12mm chain... you could hear the sawing on the keel and he wouldn't listen when my husband suggested he go astern. The bowsprit was rearing up and crashing down as the waves rolled in and, gradually, as his whole boat passed under it, his stanchions crumpled, his boat was destroyed and, as a grand finale, his radar dome smashed into a grillion pieces... His dinghy got caught up and had to be cut away (but a kind neighbour grabbed it and later tied it onto the back of our boat) and things were about as bad as they could get for this idiot (not a mark on us)...


I just LOVE that big old spruce and bronze sprit up front. Jousting anyone?


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## linnetwoods (Jul 14, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> Umm... If you were there first, how is it that you were too close to him???


Well might you ask... Deutschland Uber Alle, I think... We may have been there first but I guess he thought we should have moved away once we realised that we might be an inconvenience to him


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## linnetwoods (Jul 14, 2008)

CharlieCobra said:


> I just LOVE that big old spruce and bronze sprit up front. Jousting anyone?


So would I but what we actually have is thick tubular steel, painted black...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

You're not sailing a modified Trireme, are you???











linnetwoods said:


> So would I but what we actually have is thick tubular steel, painted black...


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## linnetwoods (Jul 14, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> You're not sailing a modified Trireme, are you???
> 
> Are you sure that thing isn't a hedgehog after the road train passed?
> No, it's a 72' fibreglass staysail schooner, built in 1976 with a stubby little bowsprit which we replaced with a longer one to get the headsail further forward, thus combating her weather helm (improving her capacity to hold her course instead of trying to round up into wind at every opportunity)... When I'm allowed, I'll post a photo, maybe...


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

Good Job Main....Naw...If I had a boat as pristine as yours, Id have a little adrenaline flowing too... One thing you should consider though...With your affliction as to having a bullseye seemingly painted on your hull...invest in a 15 horse for that tender.. Your Tug is a little under horsed..


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

Stillraining said:


> Good Job Main....Naw...If I had a boat as pristine as yours, Id have a little adrenaline flowing too... One thing you should consider though...With your affliction as to having a bullseye seemingly painted on your hull...invest in a 15 horse for that tender.. Your Tug is a little under horsed..


15hp hell I think I need one of those bright orange CG tenders with twin 250's... That Rival 41 is one heavy boat!!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Halekai-

A bang stick or limpet mine would probably work more effectively...and definitely stop the boat from dragging further.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Or just do what the Dog does and parade around the decks naked.
I promise you will have the entire anchorage to yourself. No worries.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Actually, the guys leave, but the women tend to stay. 


sailortjk1 said:


> Or just do what the Dog does and parade around the decks naked.
> I promise you will have the entire anchorage to yourself. No worries.


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## zaliasvejas (Jul 18, 2007)

Sailingdog, 

I am definitely staying away.... 
Just for reference, I will be at the Goslings next weekend with a bunch of kids, camping and I will anchor properly, as always...

The seeker


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

This is one that worries me, because I could be "that guy". I don't have an adequate anchoring system right now. I ahve just been day boating (except when the kids and I slept in it on the trailer, but I chocked the wheels so I wouldn't roll into Halekai's boat  ). I am not sure what I need for my little 17' boat. What I have (supplied by the PO) is a joke; an undersized fluke with rope. I use it when I beach, hand setting the blades. I need to get a "real" solution.


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## JimHawkins (Aug 25, 2006)

halekai36 said:


> At about 6:30 am I poke my head up and the large Rival from Martha's Vineyard is bearing down on us and we are about 40 feet away from spearing her about mid ship. I immediately hopped into the dink and, as I've done before, because this is all to common, rammed my bow under her quarter stern and cranked the throttle wide open while smacking the hull as loudly as I could to rouse the occupants.


I'm afraid I must criticize your technique here. Next time you might use your oars instead of your engine, and concentrate on separating the boats as quietly as possible. Another few minutes of sleep and the rocks would have kept this guy from bothering you again.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

JimHawkins said:


> I'm afraid I must criticize your technique here. Next time you might use your oars instead of your engine, and concentrate on separating the boats as quietly as possible. Another few minutes of sleep and the rocks would have kept this guy from bothering you again.


These guys were so clueless they never even heard my dinghy motor. I was banging and slapping the hull for a while to get them up on deck. How do such clueless schmucks sleep so well at anchor I'll never know???

I think next time I will use your technique and let the rocks wake them up instead....


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## knothead (Apr 9, 2003)

More times than I can recall I have confronted people who have anchored what I consider too close to me. 
If I am already anchored then I am the only one who really knows how close someone should be. They don't know how much scope I have out. 
If after a friendly request, I don't seem to get a positive response, I will get downright insistent that they move further away. 
If that doesn't work, I will move my boat. It isn't really fair but I don't want to have to worry about it all night.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

It happens all too often.
This was from a post of mine from last year.



> Well the scatted storms made their appearance around 3:00AM and that is when all hell broke loose. I got up at the first sign of rain to close all the hatches. It began to lightning quite intense and when the front hit the winds picked up to about 35knotts and blew strong for about 1-1/2 hours.
> 
> I was down below looking through a port, when I saw the raft of the three powerboats making their way through the anchorage and heading right for the small cruiser behind us. The Sea Ray had his spot light shinning on them and I immediately went on deck (In the pouring rain) and began to yell as loud as I could. It was useless in the wind and rain; they never heard me from about 50 feet away. I grab our spot and hit them with it, again to no effect. The only thing that got their attention was when they ran into the little cruiser.
> 
> The four tangled boats quickly ended up in the weeds. Some how they got three of the four out of there, but one of then ended up grounding.


These guys ended up in the weeds.

Your not alone Halekia, and in fact, you are more experinced than most and the more experience that you have and the more times you anchor out, the more prone you are to run into idiots. Murphy's Law.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

*CD's Tips for a Good Night's Sleep*

Here are my tips to make sure you get a good night sleep. They work!!! You will have entire anchorages to yourself:

1) Scream down to the kids (so that the anchorage will hear) "YOU BOYS PUT THAT SHOTGUN BACK IN MY CASE! I AIN'T FINISHED MY BEERS... YET!!"

2) (Cam told me about this one, but I have not tried it yet) Dress in Drag and keep waving over at the other boats. If they still don't leave, jump in the dink and go over to introduce yourself.

3) Go to each boat and ask them if they have a rebuild kit for a XJ-2000 Macerator. Yours has gone out and is spewing into the bay. Remind them not to swim or run the watermaker.

4) "HEY! YEAH YOU! YA'LL HEAR ABOUT THAT MAN THAT DISSAPEARED HERE LAST WEEK?? THOUGHT I SAW A FOOT IN THE WATER BY YOUR BOAT. KEEP A LOOKOUT FOR ME, WOULD YA?"

and if all else fails...

5) Put in a CD of Barry Manilow and blast it out of the cockpit. This is the sure fire method, but I can only use it as a last resort when all else fails. It takes me weeks of recovery afterwards and often some expensive therapy.

- CD


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Cruisingdad said:


> Here are my tips to make sure you get a good night sleep. They work!!! You will have entire anchorages to yourself:
> 
> 1) Scream down to the kids (so that the anchorage will hear) "YOU BOYS PUT THAT SHOTGUN BACK IN MY CASE! I AIN'T FINISHED MY BEERS... YET!!"


Don't have kids... so that won't work for me.



> 2) (Cam told me about this one, but I have not tried it yet) Dress in Drag and keep waving over at the other boats. If they still don't leave, jump in the dink and go over to introduce yourself.


Don't carry women's clothing aboard, since I don't generally have to wear it when all my clothes get thrown in the trash by Bubba at the Laundromat, so this is out too.



> 3) Go to each boat and ask them if they have a rebuild kit for a XJ-2000 Macerator. Yours has gone out and is spewing into the bay. Remind them not to swim or run the watermaker.


This might be an option, but my crap smells like roses... so this is out too. 



> 4) "HEY! YEAH YOU! YA'LL HEAR ABOUT THAT MAN THAT DISSAPEARED HERE LAST WEEK?? THOUGHT I SAW A FOOT IN THE WATER BY YOUR BOAT. KEEP A LOOKOUT FOR ME, WOULD YA?"


People disappearing isn't that unusual around here... so it wouldn't bother most of the boaters here.



> and if all else fails...
> 
> 5) Put in a CD of Barry Manilow and blast it out of the cockpit. This is the sure fire method, but I can only use it as a last resort when all else fails. It takes me weeks of recovery afterwards and often some expensive therapy.
> 
> - CD


This wouldn't work for me, as* it REQUIRES YOU TO HAVE A BARRY MANILOW CD aboard the boat. I don't. You do. *


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

It's pretty easy to spot someone that knows how to anchor, unfortunately they seem to be few and far between. I once watched a magnificent looking 85' sailboat try to anchor at Princess Louisa inlet. They would go in right by shore (there's a waterfall that creates a constant current to keep you off shore), drop the hook and then reverse at about 6-7 knots (no exaggeration!) and drag the anchor off the edge into the depths. They kept at this for more than an hour, never changed the method. Probably would have broken something if the anchor had ever caught on a rock! They finally left and anchored down the inlet behind an island. Then there are the guys that drop the anchor, with all rope rode and when it hits the bottom they cleat it off, no scope (usually something like a Bayliner 28').

Like others that have posted, I'd rather move than have another 3am fire drill because of the idiots. I haven't had much luck getting people to move when they anchor too close, might have to try some of CD's suggestions  

John


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

JRD-

when the idiots try to anchor to close to me... I head for the shallows... the ones you try and follow usually pay for it.  Not many boats can anchor in 7' of water at high tide safely.


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## zaliasvejas (Jul 18, 2007)

My favourite is to find a spot that no sane person would want to anchor in...
Have the natural barriers, like rocks and cliffs keep others away. 
Besides, there is usually more wildlife to enjoy....
Once I had to anchor for 2 hours in the upper part of Hell Gate. As you all might know, there isn't much space.... so I had to find a spot behind a buoy, marking an obstruction. I waited till a large motorboat went by to reveal the rocks and then picked my way in... that kept all of the barges away...
Just a thought...


The seeker


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## linnetwoods (Jul 14, 2008)

Maybe one could try luring everyone into a bay you don't really want to anchor in (sing it's praises to a non-existent fellow sailor, or a co-conspirator, over the VHF or anchor there for half an hour and let the sheeple anchor all around you) and then whiz off to the bay you really wanted to be in and enjoy the peace and quiet...


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

I watched a guy in a 46' trawler attempt anchoring for hours. He'd drop a 1:1.1 scope and motor back over and over again.


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## zaliasvejas (Jul 18, 2007)

Here is a story from this weekend.... 
I motor up to a nice small island in Casco Bay, with a sandy beach and some moorings... I have 5 kids and two adults on board... Kids see sand, kids want sand, so we anchor.... well clear of all the moorings, in about 18' of water (high tide), Lobster pots all around....as you all have seen. 
Here we are, finishing up the barbecue on the beach, when I notice a Grady White cabin boat, right in front of my boat, swinging on a "LOBSTER POT"!
The guy caught a lobster pot for a mooring, leaving no swinging room for me. 
Tide current started ripping and all the boats swung around. Luckily, at this point, we were on our way back to the boat.... My boat started sailing on the anchor, one of those inexplicable behaviours, when current is opposed the wind but not quite strong enough to take over, so the boat sails sideways to the anchor. The Grady started drifting on to my boat... I poled it off and started screaming at the owner on the beach. He politely explained that he was on a mooring, disguised as a lobster pot... I left, did not want to argue... 
Now, tell me, what's up with that? 
I was there first, that thing did not look like a mooring, the Grady boat should have found a different spot, right? 
Especially, when he could clearly see that we would bump eventually.
I wish I only had the nature to contend with...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Stupidity is tough to argue with... and never argue with an idiot...he'll drag you down to his level and then beat you to death with his experience of being there.


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## primerate84 (Jun 14, 2006)

SD, truer words have never been spoken...


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## zaliasvejas (Jul 18, 2007)

Thanks, guys.... my sanity restored. 
It was a very nice Saturday...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Why would he disguise a mooring as a lobster pot? Is that legal (I am guessing not)? You steered clear of the properly marked moorings. It sounds like to me he was in violation of either the fishing or mooring regs.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Andy-

I don't think the guy would know a lobster pot buoy from a mooring buoy if you whacked him over the head with them.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Just remember one thing!! When you do anchor. Have the inboard end of your anchor line secured to the vessel firmly. Or else you can kiss it all good bye.


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## zaliasvejas (Jul 18, 2007)

Boasun,

For sure... I have the end of the whole rode attached to a sturdy stick that will not squeeze through the hose pipe (is that what you call a hole in the deck for the anchor rode to come through?) I am still learning terminology...


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

zaliasvejas - hawse pipe. hawsers are big ropes, it's a pipe made for them (but not really a 'pipe' per se.


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## zaliasvejas (Jul 18, 2007)

Thanks, chucklesR!
Set me straight! I knew it was somewhere around anchoring paraphernalia.
So what is the name of that hole? Where anchor rode comes out through the deck?


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## Vasco (Sep 24, 2006)

chucklesR said:


> zaliasvejas - hawse pipe. hawsers are big ropes, it's a pipe made for them (but not really a 'pipe' per se.


No. It's the navel pipe or spurling pipe. Definitely not the hawse pipe. The hawse pipe is where the anchor sits when it's hove home. Only a very large sailboat would have a hawse pipe.


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## zaliasvejas (Jul 18, 2007)

Navel pipe! 
sounds appropriate... like an umbilical cord... how poetic...


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## nk235 (Apr 8, 2007)

zaliasvejas said:


> Here is a story from this weekend....
> I motor up to a nice small island in Casco Bay, with a sandy beach and some moorings... I have 5 kids and two adults on board... Kids see sand, kids want sand, so we anchor.... well clear of all the moorings, in about 18' of water (high tide), Lobster pots all around....as you all have seen.
> Here we are, finishing up the barbecue on the beach, when I notice a Grady White cabin boat, right in front of my boat, swinging on a "LOBSTER POT"!
> The guy caught a lobster pot for a mooring, leaving no swinging room for me.
> ...


After that conversation I would have pushed off his boat with a 2x4 with rusty nails sticking out the other end and politely explain to the Grady guy that it is really a rubber boat pole in disguise.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

zaliasvejas said:


> Thanks, chucklesR!
> Set me straight! I knew it was somewhere around anchoring paraphernalia.
> So what is the name of that hole? Where anchor rode comes out through the deck?


To lead the rode from the locker it comes out of the Spill Pipe. then across the deck and down the Hawse pipe through the deck and side overboard.
But the opening to your chain locker is the spill pipe.


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## zaliasvejas (Jul 18, 2007)

Thanks, Bosun,

So I don't have a hawse pipe, since my rode goes out the spill pipe and onto anchor roller at the bow. Whew.... now I know...
Casco Bay is not a very large place, I would not want to upset anyone... who knows, you might need help sometimes yourself....
Happy anchoring, everyone!


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

*Determining how close..*

As another evolving sailor, dragging anchor or anchoring too close to another boat and swinging into them (or letting them anchor too close to me) is one my major fears, so my question is, how do you know how close you can safely be to another boat. Are there any rules of thumb to help you visualize your swing radius?

We've pretty well got the proper process for setting the hook down, so as long as no one else is around we're good. I just want to avoid being the butt head that drops too close to someone else when we're not so lucky as to have the anchorage to ourselves.

The other anchoring question is what if the winds don't cooperate with your selected anchorage? We selected our 4th of July anchorage based on the forecast winds which did evetually materialize but much later than forecast. In the meantime, pop up showers swung us to and fro, sometimes towards the lee shore, sometimes perpendicular and sometimes away from shore. Other than checking our postion every so often and being ready get underway quickly, I didn't know what else could be done short of motoring back to the marina.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Dragging/Swinging at anchor*

There is probably a formulas for determining your swing, but to see it in real life and figure it out is difficult. You almost never know how much scope the other guy has out and they are usually not on deck when you try to anchor.

This Spring I sailed from Magothy River, Chesapeake to Lake Ontario (spent the winter in the South). I anchored every time I could. The swing circle and tidal currents were by far the biggest issue. I did not trust my anchor to reset on its own once Tidal Current had pulled it out.

My final solution; Bahamian Mooring.

I would look the anchorage over very carefully, select my spot and then
Sail or Motor slowly ahead and drop my stern anchor as I passed the place I wanted it to dig in. I would then sail/motorl double the scope I eventually wanted out and then drop the bow Anchor. I would now pull myself back 1/2 way on the rear anchor while letting out the bow Rode. I now have tw anchors set with me in the middle. I take my Stern Anchor rode to the bow, be sure both anchors have dug in well, allow enough slack so that the keel and rudder won't catch on either rode when the boat swings, and cleat both rodes to the Bow.
Now My swinging circle is very small and it took only a few extra seconds to set up. My anchors won't trip and need to reset when the tide changes or an unexpected wind comes up, and if one of them does completely fill up with grass or seaweed, I still have another anchor down as a backup. My boat can pull in any direction it wants and I don't have to worry about swinging into anyone.

Hauling it in is fairly easy (reverse the process) and usually only adds a few minutes to getting undeway. Certainly worth it.

I started sleeping much better at night and I felt much more at ease when ashore.

Just an idea.

Don


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Thread Title*

Just a thought, but would a better title for this thread be;

If you don"t know how to anchor....Practice!

Mooring Balls are ruining our anchoring skills.

Don


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

A Bahamian Moor is a really bad idea if you're the only boat that is using it... since you won't swing anywhere like the other boats in the anchorage, and most likely one of them will swing into you.


dquack said:


> There is probably a formulas for determining your swing, but to see it in real life and figure it out is difficult. You almost never know how much scope the other guy has out and they are usually not on deck when you try to anchor.
> 
> This Spring I sailed from Magothy River, Chesapeake to Lake Ontario (spent the winter in the South). I anchored every time I could. The swing circle and tidal currents were by far the biggest issue. I did not trust my anchor to reset on its own once Tidal Current had pulled it out.
> 
> ...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Bahamian Moor*

Hi Sailingdog,
I'm confused. If I set up my Bahamian Moor outside of the swinging circle of all other boats in the anchorage, how will any of them swing into me?

Sometimes when the anchorage is crowded, I thought I could use it to create a small swinging circle outside of all the others. That way I wouldn't have to worry about anyone hitting me and visa versa.

Don


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Don-

Unless you have an exceptionally shallow draft, what are the chances that some idiot who doesn't know anchoring etiquette is going to come over and drop his hook right next to you, since you've got a nice open space around you. I'd say it is probably pretty good...and murphy's law say he'll do it after you've gone to bed for the night... and you'll get hit when the wind shifts.

It is even worse if the anchorage is crowded...since there's far more chance that some idiot will head towards where your boat is, trying to avoid the crowds.



dquack said:


> Hi Sailingdog,
> I'm confused. If I set up my Bahamian Moor outside of the swinging circle of all other boats in the anchorage, how will any of them swing into me?
> 
> Sometimes when the anchorage is crowded, I thought I could use it to create a small swinging circle outside of all the others. That way I wouldn't have to worry about anyone hitting me and visa versa.
> ...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Anchoring Etiquette*

SailingDog

Ya got me. Good Point.

I knew there was a reason I got up at all hours while anchored.

I will just have to anchor so that my swing doesn't intercept others and keep watch for the latecomers. Oh well, the trials and tribulations of the cruising sailor. I'll still take it over the Rat Race (the rats won).

Thanks,
Don


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

dquack said:


> There is probably a formulas for determining your swing, but to see it in real life and figure it out is difficult. You almost never know how much scope the other guy has out and they are usually not on deck when you try to anchor.
> 
> This Spring I sailed from Magothy River, Chesapeake to Lake Ontario (spent the winter in the South). I anchored every time I could. The swing circle and tidal currents were by far the biggest issue. I did not trust my anchor to reset on its own once Tidal Current had pulled it out.
> 
> My final solution; Bahamian Mooring.


You should note that a Bahamian moor in a crowded anchorage is considered bad etiquette and is dangerous unless the other vessels in the anchorage are using it too. By restricting your own swinging circle you allow the swinging circle of a boat with normal 5-10:1 scope to swing into your boat. Bahamian mooring is fine when:
1. You are alone
2. You are the FIRST boat in an anchorage
3. You anchor well out of the swinging circles of other nearby boats.
4. You arrive and find other boats using that anchoring system. Then it is bad etiquette for you to use a single hook!

EDIT...just saw your latest question to the Dawg. I think it is worse than that. Example. Let's say that I pull up in an anchorage behind a boat that has 7:1 scope out. I pull up right behind him say 20 ft. aft as the anchorage is crowded. There are other boats on single anchors fairly close by as well to is port and starboard. I let out 7:1 scope and go to sleep for the night. Overnight the wind shifts 180 degrees and now he is behind ME by 20 feet and all of the other boats have swung around too with the shift and we are all fine.

Now imagine that this boat in front of me instead chooses to put out 2 anchors and reduce his swinging room to the EQUIVALENT of a boat with a 3:1 rode. Now when I shift 180 degrees at night my 7:1 scope overlaps his boats swinging circle and we have night-time fun and games.

Hope that makes it clearer. 
*********************
This is also why you want to use standard 5-7:1 scope in NORMAL conditions when you drop your hook in a crowded anchorage...so that you don't overlap your swing circle with other boats using the standard formula. 
Storytime: There was a guy in Marsh Harbor Bahamas who felt it was his right to lay our 200 feet of rode in calm conditions in a very crowded anchorage in less than 10ft of water in good holding.....thus taking up the space of 4-5 boats. He would yell at anyone that came inside his swing circle. Finally several of us had had it with him so we anchored close to him in TURN and told him to screw off and pull his chain in or face the consequences if he hit us. Since he refused that... he HAD to keep an anchor watch all night. A couple of sleepless nights was all it took till he moved to the edge of the harbor!


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## soulesailor (Nov 18, 2007)

midlifesailor said:


> Are there any rules of thumb to help you visualize your swing radius?


One way to help with the visualization is to not think in terms of how many feet away is this or that, but rather think in terms of boat lenght. For example, I'm going to drop the hook three boat lenghts behind the guy in front of me and then back down, or, I'll probably swing four boat lenghts in that direction, etc.

If you're still wondering about spacing get in your dinghy and take a look from a different perspective, it may look a lot different once you look at it from the side.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Of course, the swing radii is partially determined by the depth of where you're anchoring and what scope you're using.  If the anchorage changes depth radically, you'll have boats anchored in very different depths...so asking about scope doesn't always answer how large a swinging circle they're going to have.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

By the way! If you are dragging anchor, you are considered to be underway because you are no longer anchored. 
This Tibit was brought to you by Been There!!


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## deniseO30 (Nov 27, 2006)

A couple of weeks ago some of the sailboaters in my club went up river to raft up, watch fireworks from the boats. When we got there with my boat I saw it wasn't going to work well by rafting up with 6 boats that were already drifting. So I dropped the hook. Thought things were ok, had a margerita.. (ok 2! ) then later after my friends were feeling no pain we started drifting ???? It seems someone loosend the rode. duh! I just retied it and went back to the helm. I did't see a reason to yell at anyone even though I had become one of "those sailboaters" drifting into a power boat. Of course, the people in the boat I was drifting into just sat there in silence waiting to see if I would actually let my boat hit them. So I can imagine someone somewhere is ranting about me!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Bahamian Moor*

Hi Guys,

First of all, I have read several of your posts and you obviously have a wealth of sailing knowwledge and I want you to know that I am aware of that fact. That said:

I guess I am confused even more than I thought. I thought that proper anchoring technique required me to anchor so that no part of my swing circle crossed any part of the swinging circle of the boats around me.
If I anchor in such a way that swinging circles cross, then boats with different windage or underbody shapes could end up hitting each other.

I thought the whole idea of proper anchoring etiquette was to be sure that no one can reach me in any conditions and I can't reach them. If I anchor with overlapping circles, how do I pull up my anchor when the wind or current shifts and now a boat is over my anchor.

By my way of thinking, anchoring where boats can reach me, where my circle overlaps another boat, where I depend on all boats to shift exactly together to keep us from hitting each other, is poor etiquette and dangerous.

Anchoring where no one can hit anyone else without dragging is proper etiquette.

If I am Securely anchored and another boat comes up behind me and anchors within my swinging circle I usually feel that they do not understand anchoring very well and now my boat is at risk if the wind or current shifts.

I had a boat partner once that always pulled up too close to boats already anchored and dropped the hook, and after the little boat swung into the big boat enough times, I finally stopped him from doing that.

Don


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

DQ...Obviously correct IF the harbor conditions permit but in crowded harbors which tend to be where cruisers go...the idea is for everyone's circle to overlap their neighbors but not pose any danger as all the boats will swing in PRETTY MUCH the same manner within a short time despite hull differences. Also obviously...you want to think twice about catamarans when they are gonna be cclose to your circle! 
My point was not to contradict your *very good normal etiquette* DQ...but to point out that MOST popular cruising harbors in season do not allow for that kind of space and that a Bahamian moor in crowded conditions is both dangerous and bad etiquette unless the boats around you are using the same system.


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## soulesailor (Nov 18, 2007)

dquack said:


> If I am Securely anchored and another boat comes up behind me and anchors within my swinging circle I usually feel that they do not understand anchoring very well and now my boat is at risk if the wind or current shifts.


Yes, your boat will be at risk. This is why everone in the anchorage should try to anchor the same way. If you are on a smaller swing radius because you are on a bahamian moor, but nobody else is, you won't fall back enough on a current/wind change to give the other guy the room he was expecting.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Multihulls often swing differently than monohulls, due to the much shallower drafts and greater windage, which means they are primarily affected by wind and not so much by current—which usually affects monohulls, with their deeper drafts fairly greatly. Avoiding multihulls at anchor is probably a wise idea.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Anchoring*

Thanks a lot guys,
I'm really learning here.
I can see your point. I have sailed mostly in the Pacific and Sea of Cortez for the last 15 yrs. Those anchorages are rarely crowded. It honestly never occurred to me that anchoring technique could be different in different areas based on local conditions.

That's a lesson I won't forget. Thanks again,

One question:
Do you take into account the fact that when the wind or tidal current shifts it may trip your anchor and it may drag for a distance before resetting?

Don


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

> Avoiding multihulls at anchor is probably a wise idea


Ahhh, the start of a rumor to keep those beautiful anchorages to themselves.


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## MIKEMCKEE (Oct 13, 2001)

I looked into the web site to search for a boat by using the boats name and it's really is great. I had a dumb XXX a few weeks back who wouldn't move his boat, that I thought was way too close after he anchored way after I had set my hook. I ended up moving because like my ol dad liked to say (you can be dead right). I ended up writing this XXX a nice letter asking him to understand why I asked him to move, since he had arrived at the cove well after I had anchored, and would you belive it he had the nerve to reply to me that he thought that since his boat was bigger he had priorty when he achored. What a load of crap, I couldn't belive what I was reading, I mean this guy really thinks this load of BS. I didn't fire back a E-mail because I really think it wouldn't do me any good even if I did. I'll just remember the XXX and if I see him again I'll take a picture of his boat for everyone to be on the lookout for.

Chief


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Don-

If you're in an area where wind or current shifts are going to be a problem, you really need to get an anchor that can deal with those conditions well. Fluke-type anchors are a really bad idea in such a situation.



dquack said:


> Thanks a lot guys,
> I'm really learning here.
> I can see your point. I have sailed mostly in the Pacific and Sea of Cortez for the last 15 yrs. Those anchorages are rarely crowded. It honestly never occurred to me that anchoring technique could be different in different areas based on local conditions.
> 
> ...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

SD -- the time to avoid multihulls is when you are buying a boat!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

okay, you can call me an xxx-----I deserve it!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

damn, freesail's smarter than he looks....and ruining our plans to keep those anchorages to ourselves...    


Freesail99 said:


> Ahhh, the start of a rumor to keep those beautiful anchorages to themselves.


RTD-

Nah, you gotta do more than that to qualify... but I will say you're a grand example of an AFOC... with SFB... to boot.  If you can't figure out SFB... let me know.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> damn, freesail's smarter than he looks....and ruining our plans to keep those anchorages to ourselves...


I've found that being a stunt double has helped.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Anchors*

Hi Sd,
I have actually got five anchors aboard. Two Danforth types 1 @ 45Lbs and 1 @ 35 lbs, one 44 lb Bruce, one 45 Lb plow, and a Storm Anchor (yachtsmans type). I don't count the two grapnel type anchors.

I have all chain rode on the bow, 200' of 5/16 HT, and a 200' nylon rode at the stern with 35' of 3/8 chain.

I usually try to check the bottom type and expected weather before I choose which ones to drop.

As you know different anchors work better in different bottom types.
Grass/weeds, sand, mud, cobbles,etc.

I usually only use the Danforth types in soft mud

During my last trip, I anchored in two different places where there was quite a lot of tidal current. (Cheaspeake City Anchorage basin and Barnegat Bay) Without a Bahamian Mooring, My anchors would surely have needed to reset when the tide changed. I was outside everyone elses swing circle, especially that pesky Catamaran.

Don


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Dquack-

I think you can nearly give Halekai a run for his money on the number of anchors...though he has you beat on variety...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Anchors*

Really?
I'm looking for a new Rocna!

DQ


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well, maybe I should put the ******* Rockna on the bay for ya... 

I just bought a bigger fluke and good nylon rope that will replace the undersized anchor I was using as my primary. At least I now have something rated as adequate for my boat.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

CD- SFB? Nah, my brain is Mississippi mud! Goes with the territory!! It's almost the same thing, but the mud is stickier! That's why my 35 lb danforth holds like a 50 pounder, and weighs 60 when you pull it up! 

BTW, your attempts are feeble -- I used to be in sales -- I've been insulted by experts!


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## chandlerman (Apr 26, 2008)

Funny thing is, I had two rafted up powerboats drift into me just this past Sunday. This was in on Lake Michigan, too, where there are no tides or currents to worry about and only about 7kts of wind at the time.

Of course, we were in an area known as "The Playpen" since it's the main anchorage in downtown, just north of Navy Pier. Most irritating part of it all is that I deliberately picked a spot where I could give myself adequate scope and they anchored pretty much on top of my rode with the 1.1:1 scope that's apparently standard anchoring procedure for power boats.

No damage, fortunately. Still, it was irritating because my wife kept asking me if I was sure that it wasn't something that I had done, even after I explained that we couldn't have drifted upwind into them.

And this thread was growing faster than I could read it for about four pages. It's probably up to page 14 by now.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Kinda makes you wish you had one of those "Chicago violins" favored by Al Capone! Do they still use them around there?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Our only real bad experience so far was on the west coast of Florida about 10 years ago. We were anchored and the forecast was for 35-40 knit winds. We gad been anchored for a couple of days and 3 catamarans anchor ahead of us. I've never worried about cats before mainly because that are light and usually have good anchoring techniques. About 3am we felt a bump and went above and saw one cat up under our bow sprit with everyone asleep below decks. Finally got someone awake and tried to power away from us, but were hung up in out sprit stay which is welded chain and us with an all chain rode out it created an closed v shape like a pair of scissors. As the wind blew then into us the chain acted like a pair of shears and we ended up cutting into them for about 5 feet until they got up against our hull and scraped our paint job. Finally got them free amd spent the rest of the morning watching out for his buddies. I n the morning exchanged insurance info and thought all was well. Before we could get in and have our boat repaired we ended with a lawsuit for damage to his boat. His dumb*ss attorney advised him that he had a good case against us. The judge ended up advising both of them differently. There excuse was that I was using chain and not rope for anchoring a 12.5 ton boat in strong winds and that it was an excessive anchoring technique. He drug but I didn't.
Don't anyone get their panties in a ruffle just because it was a multihull, it's just that he was able to fit between the bowsprit and chain rode.
Still think back on it and get a good laugh out of it....


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

1.1:1 - that seems right for some PBs... I just bought an anchor from a guy who had been using it on his boat. Came with about 75' of good rope and I calculated that would be good for about 7' because of 3' freeboard. He told me he used in over 30' with no trouble.


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## SteveCox (Jul 12, 2006)

*Rode differences*

Since this is turning into a how-to discussion I have a question. Several of you have talked about overlapping circles in crowded anchorages. I can understand the concept if all boats swing approximately equally, but what do you do with someone who has all chain rode? I have read that boats swing differently on different types of rode so how do you figure how much room you need from another boat?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Boats with different rodes from what is commonly used in an area are a problem. A boat with an all-chain rode can often get away with less scope...so has a smaller swinging circle. It pays to pay attention to what the other boats around an anchorage are using and try to anchor near boats of your size, type and with similar rodes.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

linnetwoods said:


> As a permanent live-aboard, I have seen my share of anchoring nightmares. Once, the guy on the boat in front of us accused us of dragging forwards onto his stern!


Incredibly enough this almost happened to us over the weekend. Some poxy cat stink boat anchored way to close to us and after a bit of glaring on my part he tried to sort out the problem by simply whacking it into reverse and tried to pull his anchor further away from us. End result was once he had the anchor chain as taut as a violin string he figured he was far enough away from us and 
killed the donk. Was quite perplexed when a moment later he'd just about run up our arse.

What really pissed me off about that fella and another couple in a sailor who also anchored about half a boat's length away from us a little later was that at the time we were the only other boat in that particular bay.


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## chandlerman (Apr 26, 2008)

RAGTIMEDON said:


> Kinda makes you wish you had one of those "Chicago violins" favored by Al Capone! Do they still use them around there?


Despite storing them in violin cases, we call them Chicago Typewriters. Fortunately, we don't see too much of that here on the Near North Side any more.

The last icon of Capone kitsch, the Clark Bar, an old-school bar a mile from me with life-size pictures of Valentine's Day Massacre and sited in the building where that famed event occurred, is now closed after being open for decades. Prohibition Era gangsters aren't even a tourist draw any more and it wasn't in the right part of town to be a good dive bar.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

TDW...why would anyone anchor downwind of you? 

SteveCox.... in my experience it takes about 20 knots of wind to extend an all chain rode pretty fully... so depending on conditions, you may wish to anchor a bit further behind such a boat if you don't have all chain yourself. This is the one scenario where having a kellet on a rope rode can help reduce your swinging circle in light conditions so that your boat acts like all the other all chain rode boats in terms of swinging circle. In heavy conditions there are no worries as all rodes will be stretched. I've often had to take in a few yards or ask the boat behind us to let out a bit as conditions change and yes...sometimes you have to pull the hook and move to be safe. There are no 100% safe solutions in a *crowded *anchorage but it pays to 
1. circle and observe the boats around you and what they are using.
2. anticipate the weather conditions when positioning your boat and laying your rode. If it is gonna pipe up later...give yourself room for a bit more scope.
3. use good etiquette...don't anchor for NOW...anchor for a 360 circle that won't impact the boats around you as they swing around too. 
4. ASK the guy in front of you how much scope he has out so you can be a good neighbor! I often do thhis as I drive to my spot behind another boat. 
5. Last IN...FIRST to move is the rule if anyone is getting too close to anyone else.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> TDW...why would anyone anchor downwind of you?


They work for the government and want to test their new NBC suits. 



> SteveCox.... in my experience it takes about 20 knots of wind to extend an all chain rode pretty fully... so depending on conditions, you may wish to anchor a bit further behind such a boat if you don't have all chain yourself. This is the one scenario where having a kellet on a rope rode can help reduce your swinging circle in light conditions so that your boat acts like all the other all chain rode boats in terms of swinging circle. In heavy conditions there are no worries as all rodes will be stretched. I've often had to take in a few yards or ask the boat behind us to let out a bit as conditions change and yes...sometimes you have to pull the hook and move to be safe. There are no 100% safe solutions in a *crowded *anchorage but it pays to
> 1. circle and observe the boats around you and what they are using.
> 2. anticipate the weather conditions when positioning your boat and laying your rode. If it is gonna pipe up later...give yourself room for a bit more scope.
> 3. use good etiquette...don't anchor for NOW...anchor for a 360 circle that won't impact the boats around you as they swing around too.
> ...


Too bad most powerboaters don't know or understand #5.


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

dquack said:


> Really?
> I'm looking for a new Rocna!
> DQ


I'm very happy with mine (Rocna 25, about 55#, on a 22000# boat). I have had similarly good experience with Spade, but the prices on those have gone up in the US and availability seems to be problematic.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Rocna*

Sorry for the delay. I was out sailing.

After I get the Portland Pudgy, my next purchase will be a Rocna. It will in all probability become my primary anchor.

I have a heavy older Pearson 33 fully loaded for cruising and living aboard (still sail ready at a moments notice!) so I'm thinking of one around 50 to 60 lbs.

I saw their web site and their videos, I think I remember them at Annapolis too.

Don


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## zaliasvejas (Jul 18, 2007)

Dquack,

Do you have good davits for that Pudgy? I have seen it around, my kids played with it... quite heavy...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Davits*

Davits really scare me. A large following sea can rip your stern apart and you may lose the dinghy. I have been pooped before, severely. Davits would have been the end of me.
For Ocean Sailing, I wouldn't dare use them.
I use my boom to store my dinghy (Walker Bay 8, I hate it) on the Cabintop under the boom. Fits well and the Pudgy is shorter and even has hand holds on the keel.
Using my Boom is simple and quick, I have Port and Starboard Preventers permanently rigged. I unhook one of them, hook up to the bow and stern of the dinghyy, lift it up using the topping lift and the preventer (each has its own winch, Flip it over and set it on the Cabintop. Pretty simple.

I only tow it for short or calmer Bay cruises.

Don


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Dquack-

Unless your boat is really overweight... a Rocna 20 will probably do the trick. It's 44 lbs.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Newbie here, dumb question, but...

What's an anchor? And why would I?


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## zaliasvejas (Jul 18, 2007)

dquack,

Have you seen the Pudgy in person? My friend is one of the designers that worked on it, mine and his kids use it for lobstering... maybe my kid is just weak or something... 
Joking aside, I would not want to wrestle with that thing on deck...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Rocna and Pudgy*

SD,
I haven't totally decided yet. I think I saw you have one??

What size and what do you think?

Pudgy,

Yes I've been to the factory. Spent a day with the designer. Compared to what they are capable of, it seems very light. It holds more that a Walker Bay 10 and it is under 8' long.
And... once you add that: it sails, is a life raft, motors well, holds a ton of weight, rights almost dry if flipped, has handholds on the bottom, is a double hull, holds all necessary gear in the double hull (sail kit and mast, oars, everything but the engine), the features go on and on. What can compare with it?

I've been looking for something like this for years. Just trying to decide what color I want.

Don


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## zaliasvejas (Jul 18, 2007)

Cool!

Post a pic or a comment, I could pass it along...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I have a Rocna 15, which is the primary anchor for my 28' trimaran which masses about 5000 lbs. all loaded. Halekai also has a Rocna 15 which he uses as the primary anchor on his Canadian Sailcraft 36T. 

I can't imagine your boat needing a bigger anchor than the Rocna 15, but if you think you do...a Rocna 20 would be more than enough. A Rocna 25 would be massively overkill.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Rocna*

Thanks Sd,
That makes sense. After all I've seen and read I expect it will be my primary anchor. The 20 sounds right.

Don


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Dquack-

The Rocna 20 is probably overkill for your boat. IIRC, the Pearson 33 has a displacement of about 11,000 lbs. The Canadian Sailcraft 36T is about 18,000 lbs. If a Rocna 15 can hold a CS 36T, it shouldn't have any trouble with a Pearson 33. 

Honestly, i think the Rocna 20 is probably too big for your boat.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

In the rules they mention two places where you SHOULD NOT anchor. And yet I have found people anchored there. Where are they?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

In a channel is one.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

In a charted restricted area?


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## zaliasvejas (Jul 18, 2007)

I have noticed that the latest Vector charts from NOAA show restricted anchoring areas, but the raster charts don't. 
What do we go by? I will try to nail down a sample...


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Actually they are:
1. Do not anchor in a narrow channel or fairway.
2. Do not anchor at the termination of a Traffic separation scheme.

one is tad-amount to parking in the middle of a narrow road.
And the other is parking in the intersection of two busy streets.
Do you get the picture there??


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

dquack -

Look up your boat length and displacement on the Rocna sizing chart - take the larger of the two and you should be set. Unlike most sizing charts, there is no need to go up a size from the recommended anchor. My boat (just under 41', just over 22000 lbs) has plenty of anchor with a Rocna 25.

Note that a "tonne" is a metric ton, 1000 kg or about the same as a long ton (2240 lbs).


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

SVA-

My recommendation of the Rocna 15 was based on the Rocna sizing chart for a Pearson 33 that weighs in at 11,000 lbs or so. The Rocna 15 is recommended for a 33' boat up to 16,000 lbs.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> TDW...why would anyone anchor downwind of you?


One of life's mysteries dear boy, one of life's mysteries.


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