# BVI recap



## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Killing time, waiting for our flight out of STT. Naturally, the week went by in the blink of an eye. I will post some trip observations and come back later to edit or add more, when its less distracting. 

We bareboat chartered a Bavaria 36 out of Horizon in Nanny Cay. They are a good operator and I would use them again. I've only previously used the Moorings, which I maintain has more redundancy if your boat has a critical problem, but I liked Nanny Cay much better than Road Town.

Our depth finder stopped working as soon as we left the marina. When I called it in from Cooper Island, they were quite nervous. The Director, Henry, said that he would bring us another boat, if we felt we would not be able to safely navigate. We planned to take moorings anyway and, truthfully, couldn't imagine unpacking and repacking a boat after just finally getting underway. We never ran aground.

On day two, the shackle for the mast step main halyard block broke free while raising the main. That was interesting. It was blowing 20 or so at the time. I re-routed it through another block and we were back underway. After that, no boat mechanical issues. My wife, however, was really appreciating our boat. Best we could get out of the Bavaria 36, towing a dinghy, was about 5 knots, 4 was more common. Still we had some great sails. Nothing is all that far away.

Itinerary was:

Nanny Cay to Cooper Island (Beach club is fully renovated since we were last there. Very nice)

Cooper to North Sound on Virgin Gorda (serious beat into the wind. Motor sailed half of it. Spent two days in the Sound)

Virgin Gorda to Marina Cay. (Most were hunkering down as forecast was for 20 -25 kts and seas 10 - 12 feet. It had been blowing stiff for a few days. We decided to go take a look and would bail back into Leverick if it was too much. Swells were 8 feet and 10 seconds apart. While blowing a good 20 kts on a broad reach, it wasn't so bad, so we pressed on and made it, although ducked behind the Dogs for a break along the way. Someone posted about the bathrooms/showers at Marina Cay. They were, in fact, awful. The men's showers were closed for well needed renovation. New Pussers restaurant was nice, however.)

Marina Cay to Jost Van Dyke (swells down, but still 4 or 5 ft)

Jost Van Dyke to Norman (nicest sailing day of the week. 10 to 15 kts of breeze and 1 to 2 ft waves). Sailed every inch from JVD to Norman in about 3 hrs, including tacking around the western side of little Thatch. We were passed by Zanshin in the Thatch Island Cut. We waved, but there was no time in close quarters to properly say hello. That beautiful champagne Jeanneau 57 is easy to identify! Pirates Bight was also totally renovated since our last trip, very nice. Willy Ts had a very notably smaller crowd, almost no crowd. I think Pirates upgrade is hurting them.

Norman to Nanny Cay. (Easy shot across the channel. Horizon has a different policy from the moorings. You are required to stop at the fuel dock and top off. They then meet you there and bring the boat back to her slip. However, for $75, they will meet you at the breakwater and bring you directly to your slip and refuel her later and charge tour card on file. The fuel do k is easy to land, but the wait can be tremendous, especially if there is a huge stinkpotter on the fuel dock. There was when we arrived, although, we had already decided to do the express so we could have a nice breakfast before setting off and have enough time for shoreside showers and lunch before getting the ferry over to St Thomas. Worth the 75 in my book, but they were actually nice enough to waive it for us, as a token of good will for the malfunctioning depth finder)

Some other notables:

Someone mentioned that BVI was getting more commercial and it is. The fully renovated places are very nice, but no mistaking them for being more commercial. The places that look "local", like Foxy's or Fat Virgns, are just built to look that way. Willy Ts is probably the closest, but looked to be fading fast.

One other tip, which I had forgotten in the three years since I was here last. When on the ferry over to Road Town, you want to get up and near the door before you arrive at the dock. Otherwise, you're near the end of the customs line and it takes forever!

May think of more. Not looking forward to the 20 deg temps awaiting our return home.


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## jimrafford (Jan 7, 2011)

Hope you parked in a garage!
Jim


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Good report. Thanks.

Zanshin is meant to be heading our way and you spot him escaping! Now with southerly winds he may never get out of the BVIs!



> The places that look "local", like Foxy's or Fat Virgns, are just built to look that way.


Interesting note, and yes I agree. Also interesting to see the power behind the throne... Foxys Australian wife is totally opposite to the appearance of Foxy himself... one a rastafarian type muso and one a very savvy buisness woman.

Yes, anything thats run down cant survive the modern BVIs. Willi T's is an anachronism that can only survive at night with the lights low while the drunk girls still think its trendy to strip.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

sounds awesome with exception to your issues with the boat


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

Nice report.. but I'm a bit dismayed by talk of boats speeds in the 4s and 5s with winds 15-25??? Seems a 36 footer should do better... What year was the boat? Would you buy one?


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Looks like you followed exactly the same itinerary we did, except we did the first night in Trellis Bay instead of Cooper Island. How was the swell in Cooper? We skipped Cooper because we had been to the (very nice!) restaurant on day charters 2 out of the past 3 years, and we heard it could be pretty exposed.

Given the weather we've had in the Northeast, it's no surprise that you had a pretty substantial northern swell. Good luck digging into your house when you get home!


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Sounds like you had a great time albet the weather. The Bavaria is 18 ft shorter than you are used to sailing. So no wonder it didnt seem as quick although 5 knts in 15 knt winds doesnt seem right. They really arent slow like IPs a all. They actually compare to Tartans as far as speed. Maybe the bottom was fouled or the sails set up for it were smaller. Welcome back to winter.


Phrf
Jenneau 54D- 60
Bavaria 36 - 135


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Faster said:


> Nice report.. but I'm a bit dismayed by talk of boats speeds in the 4s and 5s with winds 15-25??? Seems a 36 footer should do better... What year was the boat? Would you buy one?


The boat was a 2010 and the bottom was fairly fouled, particularly the keel and rudder. Almost like the diver must have skipped them. Of course, we were also towing a dinghy, which has to cost a half to a full knot. These boats get an awful lot of use in a short period of time. The engine already had 2600 hrs on it!!

The sail plan was a full battened hanked on main and a furling jib (no genoa).

My first time on a Bavaria, so I can't report on the line, only the newer 36. I actually thought it was marginally better built that the Bennie and Jennies of the same vintage. Prior to approx 2008, Bennies and Jennies were much better quality IMO. However, we were on a model that I'm sure was built for charter and I think Bavaria has a different line for owner boats (Vision or something like that?). The brand new Beneteau we chartered a few years back was falling apart in front of our eyes and I think we were the third voyage ever. Also a charter specific build for the Moorings, I suspect.

The one thing that I did not like was the double main sheet, rather that a main and a traveler, but got used to it.

All in all, it was better than the single digit temps when I got home at 1am. yikes.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> Sounds like you had a great time albet the weather. The Bavaria is 18 ft shorter than you are used to sailing. So no wonder it didnt seem as quick although 5 knts in 15 knt winds doesnt seem right. They really arent slow like IPs a all. They actually compare to Tartans as far as speed. Maybe the bottom was fouled or the sails set up for it were smaller. Welcome back to winter.
> 
> Phrf
> Jenneau 54D- 60
> Bavaria 36 - 135


I thought my PHRF was 66, but I was certainly expecting a slower boat. The charters are probably a bit beaten on, even at a young age. As I posted above, a foul bottom and towing a dink must have been a cost too.

In the end, it was still great sailing. All day to get anywhere you want to go and none of it is really that far away.

The funny part is that my wife has teased me that we should really trade back down in size one of these days. She felt the larger fenders and lines were just tough and more stuff aboard was more stuff to repair. She is right in a way. However, now that we putted along for a week at 4 or 5 knots, she thinks the 12" fenders and 3/4" docklines are just fine!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> .... How was the swell in Cooper?.....


Not bad at all. Manchioneel Bay was just tucked in enough to miss a direct hit and being on the southern side of SFD channel kicks down most of it anyway.

The Cooper Island Beach club is fully renovated and very nice. We enjoyed that quite a bit. Played Shut the Box at the bar and had our first several Painkillers at happy hour (2 for 1) along with a snack. Good first night stop, as its fairly close but good progress up the channel.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> ....Also interesting to see the power behind the throne... Foxys Australian wife is totally opposite to the appearance of Foxy himself... one a rastafarian type muso and one a very savvy buisness woman.....


We spoke with Foxy himself for a bit. He told us his Island Dog joke, which we heard repeated several times to other guests. If you haven't heard it, I can post it. However, it is discriminatory and you would have to recall it was told by a black man.

Foxy was drunk, btw. We actually did say at dinner that night that there had to be some business savvy behind the operation. It's way too slick and well marketed. I'm sure Foxy is more savvy than he appears, but still.

We've been to many true local places in some of the furthest out islands of the Bahamas. Places where you eat in what seem like bunkers that never had windows or doors and your food is cooked in a split open 55 gal drum over burning drift wood. They were for real and we love those memories. Foxy's is not truly local. In fact, for the $$, I would just as well go to Cooper Island Beach report or Pirates Bight. Times are changing there, but its not terrible, its just different. I think many of us are going to tell stories of "how it used to be" in the years to come.

I think its going the way of some Rockie Mountain ski resorts, like Jackson Hole. JH used to be a great, less traveled, more local feel. Its become more and more popular and now you start seeing 5 star resorts and furriers. BVI is going there too.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> I think its going the way of some Rockie Mountain ski resorts...


I hear ya. First time I went to Breckenridge was in 1973. Even then the "old timers" were saying that it was becoming too commercial. Compared to now, though... It's like a completely different planet. I can only imagine what the BVIs must have been like back in the day.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Two additional trip observations......

1. St. Thomas, particularly Charlotte Amalie, remains an arm pit. Seriously, you would feel very uncomfortable alone in the dark, even escorting your wife. Gang banger is an adopted look by many locals. The real scary parts of town aren't a few blocks from the main stream, they are immediately next to it, in some cases. It is a wealthy island, with tons of economic activity, I just see no reason it needs to be so corrupt and decrepit. No need to redistribute wealth, just get the crime, drugs, or whatever else is going on to stop. You should see how the place gets locked and bolted at night. Our hotel, where we stayed a night before our flight out, was gated. I felt like we were sleeping in the American Embassy in Tehran.

2. I thought I noticed a change in attitude, on the average, in BVI. Given that money is pouring in, I couldn't help but wonder if its creating stress among the locals. I always found BVI to be mostly friendly and welcoming. It still is, but we ran across more attitude that I had in the past.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

Nice trip report, Minnewaska!

The long waterline and big sail plan on the new Zanshin makes for fast sailing compared to my previous boats - everything is quickly and easily reachable.

I should add, for the record, that I was actually catching up on Minnewaska's boat under reefed genoa and main, but the wind angle was just a couple of degrees too high in order to make it between the mainland of Tortola and Great Thatch island; so I had furled my genoa and was motorsailing (at a mere 1200rpm) when I passed them by. I felt a bit guilty and since I was passing them to their starboard and my exhaust is also on my starboard side I shouted a terse "I'm cheating" across since the were working their sails to get the most of the wind. I did assuage my guilt by turning off the engine at the earliest opportunity after making it through the West-End cut and tacked up the channel to Norman Island with a stop at the Indians.

I avoid Foxy's like the plague, it is far too commercial for me. But last night I ate at Foxy's Taboo in Diamond Cay (which I gather is run by a daughter who either lived in or trained in Paris) and the menu was a welcome change to typical island offerrings and the food was surprisingly good - plus the service was excellent.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Seems to me at 15 - 20kts of wind a 36 should be at hull speed with enough reserve to tow a dinghy at 7kts or better. 
I suspect charter services shorten the sail's a tad. 

I've not been down since 2010 when I went for 2 weeks, my 7th time. It's always been commercial to me, but seems maybe it's getting moreso.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Zanshin said:


> .....I had furled my genoa and was motorsailing.....


No way I was going to throw you overboard for motoring, you didn't have to give that up. 

Wish we could have said a more proper hello, but we both had work to do to get through the cut and around Little Thatch. Next time!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

chucklesR said:


> Seems to me at 15 - 20kts of wind a 36 should be at hull speed with enough reserve to tow a dinghy at 7kts or better.
> I suspect charter services shorten the sail's a tad.
> 
> I've not been down since 2010 when I went for 2 weeks, my 7th time. It's always been commercial to me, but seems maybe it's getting moreso.


I had to check the manufacturer website to see if the jib was standard, and it seems to be. Still, I suppose it could be undersized as well as the main. It was interesting to see that every pic in the Bavaria brochure shows her flying an asym spinnaker, code zero, or something of the sort. Pretty shots for sure, but have to wonder if that might actually be necessary to get her off her feet.

Admittedly, we enjoyed just getting into the cruisers mindset. Once the sails were trim, we sat back and went with whatever we got, rather than tweak every tenth of a knot. Still, it would have taken a miracle to get her to hull speed.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Just for comparison, I looked up the GPS tracks for my recent charter of a Sunsail 38 (essentially a Jenneau Sun Odyssey 379). I was sailing under conditions similar to Minnewaska. We took in a reef before leaving the dock on day 1, and never let it out the whole week. We sailed with full genoa, although it appeared to be about a 110, so calling it a genoa is a bit "gen-erous" :laugher

On the open stretch from East End St. John, heading toward the Bight, I was doing 6-7.2 kt. Prior to that I was only doing 4.5-5 kt along the northeast shore of St. John, but I was pinching severely to avoid having to tack. (The chartplotter says we were 60m from the rocks at East End  , although that's probably more precision than the chart can offer.)

Next day, on a beam reach between Peter Island and Road Harbour, I was doing 6.5-7.5 kt, and touched 8 kt a couple of times.

All these chartplotter numbers agree with my recollection of the SOG gauges from the boat's built-in GPS system.

This was my first time pulling a dinghy, and it did not even dawn on me that it would slow us down. The dinghy probably explains why I could only get 5 kt when motoring. But since the dinghy does not affect your hull speed, if you have enough wind, sail area, and proper trim, I would think you should have plenty of power to reach hull speed even with a dinghy in tow.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

I forgot to mention that I snorkeled under the boat a few times, and its bottom was perfectly clean - no barnacles or slime. That is probably the biggest factor in our boats' differences in speed.


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## Robes (May 24, 2012)

A few questions for you...



Minnewaska said:


> Best we could get out of the Bavaria 36, towing a dinghy, was about 5 knots, 4 was more common.


 I'll be on a Bene 403 out of Conch (10 nights) and including a passage to Anagada. I'm wondering, do you think it possible to lift the dingy on deck, removing the outboard, or too much trouble and no room for the jump to Anagada?



Minnewaska said:


> Cooper to North Sound on Virgin Gorda (serious beat into the wind. Motor sailed half of it. Spent two days in the Sound)


 North Sound, same as Gorda Sound, did you enter & leave via the buoyed channel along Colquhoun Reef?

What about Eustatia Sound, a buoyed channel near Saba Rock? Anyone in there, worth taking a dingy in there to snorkel leaving the boat at Saba?



Minnewaska said:


> Virgin Gorda to Marina Cay.


 What's that area (and Trellis Bay) like for airport noise? I have it in my head to stay away because of the airport, worth seeing despite?



Minnewaska said:


> Jost Van Dyke to Norman


 From JVD I'm thinking of looping Great Tobago(between Great & Little) and heading back toward the Narrows, comment?



Minnewaska said:


> We were passed by Zanshin in the Thatch Island Cut.


 Zanshin? Never mind, I just saw his post-



Minnewaska said:


> the wait can be tremendous, especially if there is a huge stinkpotter on the fuel dock.


Stinkpotter? You mean someone pumping the holding tank for the head?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I would have liked hull speed, but there was no way. I'm sure I could have played with the outhaul or adjustable backstay to tweak it a bit, but nothing was going to increase our speed 50%. 

There isn't a huge amount of current down there, but SOG is not the same as speed through the water.

Hull bottom was definitely dirty. It was a complete carpet on the keel and rudder, the rest was just dirty. That was sort of odd that they were so inconsistent.

Actually, the boat did not have a anemometer. I was estimating based on experience and forecast.

Zanshin, do you recall wind that day we met at Thatch? My estimate that day would have been 10 sustained, peak of 15. We were getting 4.5 - 5.0 or so, which was the max we saw when motoring.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> There isn't a huge amount of current down there, but SOG is not the same as speed through the water...


The run from Peter Is. to Road Harbour went so fast that we did a 180 and crossed two more times. Speed was the same both directions, so current was not a factor. But we were on a beam reach, so it was the fastest point of sail. Breeze that day was "only" 15 kt (based on forecast - no anemometer aside form my little handheld), and only 1-2 ft chop, so absolutely optimum conditions. We would have shook the reef out, but with the speeds we were getting, why bother?

All the other days were 20-30 kt with 4-6' seas, so the pounding did slow us down a lot. As you recall from my other writeup, we had to motor into the teeth of the wind rather than try to beat.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Robes said:


> I'll be on a Bene 403 out of Conch (10 nights) and including a passage to Anagada. I'm wondering, do you think it possible to lift the dingy on deck, removing the outboard, or too much trouble and no room for the jump to Anagada?


Way too much trouble for vacation and no outboard bracket on the pushpit.



> North Sound, same as Gorda Sound, did you enter & leave via the buoyed channel along Colquhoun Reef?


North Sound and Gorda are the same thing. Not sure I know the reef by name, but if you're referring to the one just East of Mosquito Island, that's it. It's easy, just say between the markers, maybe favor the green. Do not try to enter between Mosquito and Virgin Gorda.



> What about Eustatia Sound, a buoyed channel near Saba Rock? Anyone in there, worth taking a dingy in there to snorkel leaving the boat at Saba?


I've never taken the boat out there, although, I've seen people sneak between Saba and the Bitter End Yacht club. I would leave the boat inside North Sound and take the dinghy out, if you would like to snorkle.



> What's that area (and Trellis Bay) like for airport noise? I have it in my head to stay away because of the airport, worth seeing despite?


You'll definitely hear them, but its not too bad. Keep in mind that I like airplane noise. 

More noticeable at Trellis than Marina Cay. I wouldn't consider it a factor at either. I've anchored overnight off the south side of Beef Island as well.



> From JVD I'm thinking of looping Great Tobago(between Great & Little) and heading back toward the Narrows, comment?


You can if you want, but I'm not sure of the purpose. If there is any ocean swell, you'll be more exposed out there. Although, you can't fully avoid that anyway.



> Zanshin?


Zanshin is a poster on this board that I saw when there.



> Stinkpotter? You mean someone pumping the holding tank for the head?


Stinkpotter = big gas guzzling power boat. They take a loooooong time to refuel and you will wait, if they get there first.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> The run from Peter Is. to Road Harbour went so fast that we did a 180 and crossed two more times. Speed was the same both directions, so current was not a factor. But we were on a beam reach, so it was the fastest point of sail. Breeze that day was "only" 15 kt (based on forecast - no anemometer aside form my little handheld), and only 1-2 ft chop, so absolutely optimum conditions. We would have shook the reef out, but with the speeds we were getting, why bother?
> 
> All the other days were 20-30 kt with 4-6' seas, so the pounding did slow us down a lot. As you recall from my other writeup, we had to motor into the teeth of the wind rather than try to beat.


I would like to go back and have another crack at it. Wouldn't you?

You're right, current in SFDC would have been on your beam, if there was any at the time anyway. I think it maxes around 1 kt anyway.


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## Robes (May 24, 2012)

Quote:
From JVD I'm thinking of looping Great Tobago(between Great & Little) and heading back toward the Narrows, comment?



Minnewaska said:


> You can if you want, but I'm not sure of the purpose. If there is any ocean swell, you'll be more exposed out there. Although, you can't fully avoid that anyway.


 I guess I'm thinking of dropping a line for a little fishing off reef, as when we go to Anagada. I've read about the Ciguatera, fish poisoning, they say stay away from any shallow water "reef" fish and try for offshore fish as tuna, wahoo, swordfish, marlin, dolphin, sailfish, Spanish mackerel, small king mackerel, and yellowtail snapper. Not sure if catching a fish is worth the potential of getting poisoned uke. Did you see many cruisers fishing? Hear anything about fishing in those waters?

Thanks for all your answers Minnewaska-


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I've never fished in the BVI, but I do see poles on some of the boats. I've never witnessed them fishing either, but I know some do.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

TakeFive said:


> How was the swell in Cooper? We skipped Cooper because we had been to the (very nice!) restaurant on day charters 2 out of the past 3 years, and we heard it could be pretty exposed.....


I was flipping some photos of the trip and remembered your question when I came upon this one. It is from our bar stool at the Cooper Island Beach club. As you can see, no swell whatsoever, and it was blowing this day.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> I was flipping some photos of the trip and remembered your question when I came upon this one. It is from our bar stool at the Cooper Island Beach club. As you can see, no swell whatsoever, and it was blowing this day.
> 
> View attachment 13458


Wow, looks beautiful! I don't remember seeing the mooring balls so close to the restaurant when we were there before. We'll definitely make an overnight stop there next time we go.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

Minnewaska said:


> ...
> 
> Actually, the boat did not have a anemometer. I was estimating based on experience and forecast.
> 
> Zanshin, do you recall wind that day we met at Thatch? My estimate that day would have been 10 sustained, peak of 15. We were getting 4.5 - 5.0 or so, which was the max we saw when motoring.


The wind was 10-15 that day. I have to figure out how to get my GPS track and other information from my chartplotter and can give you the exact numbers (but I'll do that... manana... sometime).

I believe that the dirty boat or worn-out sails were your problem, you really should have gotten more speed. On the other hand, tacking up the Sir Francis Drake that day might have slowed you down, as there was a decided chop.


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## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

Robes said:


> Quote:
> From JVD I'm thinking of looping Great Tobago(between Great & Little) and heading back toward the Narrows, comment?
> 
> I guess I'm thinking of dropping a line for a little fishing off reef, as when we go to Anagada. I've read about the Ciguatera, fish poisoning, they say stay away from any shallow water "reef" fish and try for offshore fish as tuna, wahoo, swordfish, marlin, dolphin, sailfish, Spanish mackerel, small king mackerel, and yellowtail snapper. Not sure if catching a fish is worth the potential of getting poisoned uke. Did you see many cruisers fishing? Hear anything about fishing in those waters?
> ...


I do not know of anyone who has gotten sick from eating tuna, wahoo, mahi etc. in the Virgins. Mahi and tuna have been caught very close to Sopers but typically your best bet for catching pelagic fish will be along the major drop-offs like just south of Norman. Don't forget to acquire a fishing license for each person on board that will touch a pole. A well rigged Cuban YoYo is very portable and capable of bringing in large hard fighting fish. Have fun.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I was hesitant to offer this, as I've never gone fishing in the BVI. But I did think I had heard more speak of fishing off the southern side of the islands. In fact, my most recent chart briefer mentioned something of where to cut through the southern chain, if I was going fishing. I ignored it, so I can't be more helpful.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

Minnewaska said:


> It is from our bar stool at the Cooper Island Beach club.


Cool! Two months ago my wife and I were sitting in those two chairs, next to the rail, in the front of your picture.


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