# Update- Leap o' Faith



## Indevolatile (Nov 3, 2006)

Some of you might remember my post in the purchasing forum a few months ago.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...362-leap-o-faith-3.html#/topics/316362?page=3

I got off the plane in DC on May 1, and spent a couple weeks visiting with an old college friend in the area while looking for a car. I ended up buying an old 95 Camry to drive up the east coast and see what I could find. I looked at half a dozen different models in my price range and, long story short, ended up buying a 1972 Japanese Mariner 32. It had some nice updates like a new Force 10 oven and Marelon through'hulls, and had been owned by the same family for 15 years (they bought a bigger boat). Yes, it leaks, from two ports and a stanchion base. And it needed some refinishing. Cue another break with old friends for a 2-week road trip to see some sights, then I took a couple weeks to refinish the masts and paint the bottom, and got it in the water on July 16. 
Purchase price - $8500
Materials (paint, varnish, epoxy undercoat, tools, etc) - $500
Yard fees - $1300

I left Captain's Cove on July 18, headed down to the east river. I don't like sailing at night, so I found a mooring field just on the left before Throg's Neck and spent the night there. I don't know who it belonged to, and nobody chased me off, so good enough.
The next morning I awoke with the sun at 5:30 am and checked the tide charts to see when would be a good time to transit. Well, low tide was listed at 8:30 am, so I pretty much had to skip my morning coffee and go right then, or wait until 2pm. True to what I've read, the knot meter showed 4.5 knots under power while the gps showed up to 11 knots at times. I came out the other end around 10am and continued south, holding about a mile off shore most of the way. About 6pm I started looking for an anchorage for the night, and choices were pretty slim. I found one on the chart that looked passable, and headed in. It was a little hairy, and I didn't realize until the next morning that I was at a place called Barnegat Inlet, which I guess has a bit of a reputation. It took me until 11am to get going, partly because I scared myself reading about it and partly because I was waiting for higher water. Needless to say, I was glad my boat only drafted 4.5 ft. So yesterday I made it down from there to Atlantic City, where I'll be waiting out the forecasted scary weather for the next 3-4 days at Gardner's Basin. From here I'll be working my way over to the Chesapeake and looking to settle in the Deale, MD area for the next year or so.

And that's the way it is.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

So here's a little help so you don't start out of Gardner's Basin and find yourself in Gardner's Basin. The Delaware River currents are not insubstantial, not like Hell's Gate, but for a much longer distance.

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/o...on=db&subdomain=0&model_type=currents_nowcast

4-1/2' draft helps but there are not an excessive quantity of places to pull over in the Delaware Bay. If you time the current well you have a good chance of making it a nice run. Perhaps one tide, maybe two.

Greenwich, on the NJ side is a reasonable distance up to pull over, but a bit out of the way. It is up a creek with a fair tidal current. Small restaurant there and a haul out yard.

Next is on the Delaware side is Reedy Island, in front of a town called Augustine a couple of miles south of the C&D canal. You need to be wary of the entrance. You can enter from the South, or thruough the marked inlet in the breakwaters. The breakwaters will likely be under water and invisible when you arrive. Be absolutely sure to honor the markers.

A little bit further north, a couple of miles North of the C&D canal is Delaware City Marina. Small town, one convienced store, 3 bars/restaurants, innumerable churches. Reasonably priced place place to get a shower, fuel, and better food. From there you can stage your passage through the C&D to take advantage of the current.

Of course this all assumes you are going that route not off shore into the Chesapeake. In that case I would spend some time looking at the "pull over and rest" options available. My understanding is they are very limited and can be exciting.

Best of luck.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

You don’t need to pull over on the Delaware...that’s a waste of time. Leave the mouth of the Delaware (cape May canal) 1.5 hours before current switch to flood. You will be able to ride the floood not only up to the C&D cCanal, but through it.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Indevolatile said:


> Some of you might remember my post in the purchasing forum a few months ago.
> 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...362-leap-o-faith-3.html#/topics/316362?page=3
> 
> ...


Good show

Barnegat inlet can be a bear,. Hard to beleive that the green can is dead center in the inlet as you get shoved along the jetty and take a dog leg accross the back of the inlet. Actually the anchorage in Meyers Hole is one of the prettiest around.

Cape May is easy, however like the Indy 500 with all the high speed fishing boats.

Do the Delaware in one shot. No real placeto pull over. If you time it correctly as I mentioned you can shoot through the canal all in one motion.

We usually anchor in the Sassafrass off of Betterton as the Bohemia is very shallow. From there you can work your way done the Chesapeake easily to Deale. Enjoy a stopover at either Wharton or Rock Hall


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## PhilCarlson (Dec 14, 2013)

Congratulations!


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## pdqaltair (Nov 14, 2008)

Perhaps we'll meet (Deale local), though I suspect my marina is too shallow.

Sail Delmarva: Afordable Slips in Deale, MD


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## Davenier (Sep 26, 2015)

My Congratulations Too!!


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## Soupy1957 (Jul 21, 2018)

Indevolatile said:


> ........... I don't like sailing at night, so I found a mooring field just on the left before Throg's Neck and spent the night there. I don't know who it belonged to, and nobody chased me off, so good enough.
> The next morning....... low tide was listed at 8:30 am, so I pretty much had to skip my morning coffee and go right then, or wait until 2pm........About 6pm I started looking for an anchorage for the night, and choices were pretty slim....... It took me until 11am to get going, partly because I scared myself reading about it and partly because I was waiting for higher water.......


One of the neat things about being a brand new sailer, is the ignorance I am allowed (or expected) to show (lol).

Here goes:

1. You could drop anchor anywhere (at least far enough out to avoid tidal influence), so why look for a Walmart Parking lot (if you will)???

2. What's wrong with sailing at night?? (at least when the moon is full anyway)??? I like the idea of navigation by the stars!!


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

I’ve snuggled up against the Delaware shore on a quiet night. Just try to not make it a Lee shore. 

The only problem with night sailing are the crab pots. Stay in the commercial channel and you should be OK.

Needs and blissful sailing.


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## midwesterner (Dec 14, 2015)

Soupy1957 said:


> One of the neat things about being a brand new sailer, is the ignorance I am allowed (or expected) to show (lol).
> 
> Here goes:
> 
> .....2. What's wrong with sailing at night?? (at least when the moon is full anyway)??? I like the idea of navigation by the stars!!


I've not done it, but the people on here who have, say that the light confusion in the area is immense. There is a multitude of lights on shore that are easy to confuse with the lights on boats, ferries and barges and navigational lights. Never having done it, I can only imagine. Depth perception at night is greatly reduced and, unless a light is moving across your path, it would be hard to tell which lights are stationary lights on land in the background, and which lights are other vessels on a collision course with you. Having AIS and radar would help, but it all sounds like it could be pretty confusing.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

I have done it, most of the trip is pretty OK. The area around the mouth of the C&D can be God awful. Especially if they are dredging. There may be ships, BIG un’s, entering/exiting the canal (mostly during the day), barges anchored in the river, no ferries. The canal itself is not much issue, it’s well lite the whole way.

Best to approach and transit the C&D in daylight. 

Frankly it is a very reasonable thing to take a stop at Delaware City Marina, get a shower, get a meal, get a good nights sleep, and get underway.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Glad you made it down to Atlantic City before this nasty weather hit. I don't want to think what might have happened if you tried Barnegat Inlet in the conditions we had this weekend. I assume you are doing this alone. Take the good advice you have gotten here seriously. And plan short hops to avoid getting tired and making bad decisions.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

From the OP.



> I found one on the chart that looked passable, and headed in. It was a little hairy, and I didn't realize until the next morning that I was at a place called Barnegat Inlet, which I guess has a bit of a reputation. It took me until 11am to get going, partly because I scared myself reading about it and partly because I was wait


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Run the Atlantic inlets with great caution. 

Remember the old adage " IF IN DOUBT STAY OUT"

Numerous boats and lives have lost making entries in bad conditions especially when unsure of their position.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

JimsCAL,

My apologies if incame across as a bit of a jerk. I first read your post thinking you missed the Barnegat bit. Having reread it I see you did not. And you provided good advice. My bad for not reading more carefully the first go round.


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## drew1711 (May 22, 2004)

midwesterner said:


> I've not done it, but the people on here who have, say that the light confusion in the area is immense. There is a multitude of lights on shore that are easy to confuse with the lights on boats, ferries and barges and navigational lights. Never having done it, I can only imagine. Depth perception at night is greatly reduced and, unless a light is moving across your path, it would be hard to tell which lights are stationary lights on land in the background, and which lights are other vessels on a collision course with you. Having AIS and radar would help, but it all sounds like it could be pretty confusing.


This, this, this.

New York Harbor is no place for a novice at night. OP was very wise to wait for first light.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

hpeer said:


> JimsCAL,
> 
> My apologies if incame across as a bit of a jerk. I first read your post thinking you missed the Barnegat bit. Having reread it I see you did not. And you provided good advice. My bad for not reading more carefully the first go round.


No apology necessary. I was actually a little puzzled by the point of your post. I was actually concerned that the OP had headed down the NJ coast without seeming to have checked the route in advance and researched the possible bailout points. Barnegat Inlet is notorious and if he had tried to duck in there with the strong easterlies we had over the weekend, it would not have been pretty.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Jim,

I’ve similar concerns which is why I’ve been trying to give him some unasked for advice on the Delaware. It can be a nasty bit of water when the wind bucks current. His idea to just pitch out an anchor anywhere had me wondering.


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## Indevolatile (Nov 3, 2006)

Thanks, all. I finally made the run down to Cape May today, and it was nasty, to be honest. 8-10 foot rollers the whole way. My deck got clean, though!

So I'm in the Cape May canal with no idea where to go, so at first I tied up to the city boat ramp and did some grocery shopping, and when I came back I noticed this big sign that said "no overnight camping". This probably means me. So in the dark I motor back out to the main canal, find a likely spot, and drop anchor. And promptly drift between the red and green buoys (narrowly missing the red one, in fact). Pull up anchor, find another likely spot a significant distance away, and drop anchor again. All seems well, but I'm sitting here for a half hour or so watching for drag. 
Tomorrow has low tide at 12:46 pm, so I plan to follow the recommendation here of shoving off around 9am, transiting the Cape May canal, and entering the Delaware bay about 10am or so to catch the flood, and see how far I get. 

And yes, I've been terrible about researching possible layover spots. I have been obsessive about checking my weather windows, which is why I was stuck in Atlantic City for 4 days. But consider it a point well taken. Regardless, I'm glad to be done with the Atlantic for the time being.

Thank you all for your advice and tips. Especially since what I planned as a 5-day trip has turned into a 10-day trip. I'll be happy to see the Chesapeake, which I'm at least passingly familiar with.


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Good luck and fair seas. 

Keep us apprised of your progress please. 

And no matter what, your planning is better than some. Like the guy who wanted me to accompany him in his 52’ power boat UP the Delaware to Toronto. I declined.

Ps: i just looked at my wx for the Delaware Bay, the CAPE (sorta likelyhood of thunderstorms) for Thursday and Friday is high, 1,600 - 2,000. Prepare to get hit hard and often. Think 60+ knot winds, torrential rain, lightning. Real summer screamers. Not guaranteed but possible.


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## Indevolatile (Nov 3, 2006)

So I came up from Cape May to the Delaware river yesterday, and it was pretty boring, until about 2pm. Then the swells and rain started. I was doing ok for a while, then I snapped the gooseneck on an accidental jibe, which is easy to do while surfing down waves with a following wind. So then I had the boom swinging around on the bottom of a loose mainsail trying to kill me. I managed to secure it using the downhaul, and pulled the pin securing the outhaul, which allowed the sail to strip itself free of the boom. Anytime I'd let go of the wheel for more than 10 seconds, the swells would push me sideways requiring both hands to hold on. Pulling down the main was out of the question, so I just let it flap for another 2 hours until I made it into the Delaware River proper. I found what I thought was a quiet anchorage called Pearson's Cove around 6pm, pulled the mainsail and heated up a can of soup. About 9pm I started dragging anchor from the wake of all the container ships going by, so I tried to move somewhere quieter in the dark. On the way I ran over something in 10 feet of water, probably a crab pot, and suddenly my motoring speed went from 5 knots to 3 knots. I'm not sure if I messed up my prop or if I'm dragging something. So I said the hell with it, motored out as far away from anything as I could get, dropped anchor and passed out. 
Today about 9am I motored the rest of the way up the river (at the aforementioned 3 knots) to the Delaware City Marina and decided to stay here until tomorrow. The first thing the proprietor, Tim, said to me was "You came up the bay yesterday? That was dumb."
But, I made it. I have all day today to try and figure out my prop issue. And get a shower and do some laundry.


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

midwesterner said:


> I've not done it, but the people on here who have, say that the light confusion in the area is immense. There is a multitude of lights on shore that are easy to confuse with the lights on boats, ferries and barges and navigational lights. Never having done it, I can only imagine. Depth perception at night is greatly reduced and, unless a light is moving across your path, it would be hard to tell which lights are stationary lights on land in the background, and which lights are other vessels on a collision course with you. Having AIS and radar would help, but it all sounds like it could be pretty confusing.


This is exactly right. Even with radar and AIS its important to keep a close watch and can be tricky to avoid problems. Back in the days before GPS and Loran, I was racing down the Chesapeake. We had a really good navigator on the boat, and he had been plotting our position all the way. At one point in the race, he poked his head up into the cockpit and said, "Do you see a white quick flashing light dead ahead?, Aim for it. When we get there we will need to tack out into deeper water." Blissfully we sailed on and periodically he would call out. "Are we there yet?" Finally he asked how deep the water was and the crew on deck replied around 9 feet (on a boat that drew over 6 feet). He came on deck with a set of binoculars and looked at the blinking light, then in panic shouted, "Tack.... its Cosby" Sure enough we were looking at a TV in someone's living room and was close enough that he swore that he could recognize Dr. Huxtable's face. The real fast flashing light was miles astern.

Another night race in that same era, we called the navigator on deck. The helmsman asked, "What is that city ahead?" The navigator took a few hand bearings on marks and the 'city' and went below and plotted them. He came back up on deck and took another set of bearings and plotted those. Finally he said, "I have no idea what that is. According to my plots that should be the middle of the shipping channel." It was only then that we realized that the 'city' had a red and a green light and that those lights were starting to tower over us.



Indevolatile said:


> But, I made it. I have all day today to try and figure out my prop issue. And get a shower and do some laundry.


Congratulations, well done. You might want add fixing your gooseneck to your list of things to do.

Jeff


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## hpeer (May 14, 2005)

Yup, that’s Tim. 

Tell him HOWARD says yellow from Newfoundland.

And that Bil made it to the Azores, he will understand.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

As some here warned, the Delaware Bay can really kick your butt.

I had similar issues my only time in DelBay 5 years ago:

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/ches...-delaware-river-may-2013-a-4.html#post1027057

I avoided accidental gybe by dropping the main completely and running on genoa alone. The forecast had been for winds to die down completely that day...and that was happening, so I shook out a reef before things picked up again so much that I had to drop my main completely.

Tim Konkus has a real way with words, especially with novice sailors.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

We avoid playing around with the Delaware and get through it in one run. Of the 51 trips we’ve motored or motor sailed 48 of them . Only way to make it in one shot is to never get bellow 5 knots, but get the assist from current for st least 5 hours doing 8+ knots

It’s inhospitablle . Anchoring in a three knot current out in the open with tanker waves of 5 feet is not recommended. 

Glad you came through it. 

Have you found out what caused you to only achieve 3 knots under power.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Indevolatile said:


> So I came up from Cape May to the Delaware river yesterday, and it was pretty boring, until about 2pm. Then the swells and rain started. I was doing ok for a while, then I snapped the gooseneck on an accidental jibe, which is easy to do while surfing down waves with a following wind. So then I had the boom swinging around on the bottom of a loose mainsail trying to kill me. I managed to secure it using the downhaul, and pulled the pin securing the outhaul, which allowed the sail to strip itself free of the boom. Anytime I'd let go of the wheel for more than 10 seconds, the swells would push me sideways requiring both hands to hold on. Pulling down the main was out of the question, so I just let it flap for another 2 hours until I made it into the Delaware River proper. I found what I thought was a quiet anchorage called Pearson's Cove around 6pm, pulled the mainsail and heated up a can of soup. About 9pm I started dragging anchor from the wake of all the container ships going by, so I tried to move somewhere quieter in the dark. On the way I ran over something in 10 feet of water, probably a crab pot, and suddenly my motoring speed went from 5 knots to 3 knots. I'm not sure if I messed up my prop or if I'm dragging something. So I said the hell with it, motored out as far away from anything as I could get, dropped anchor and passed out.
> Today about 9am I motored the rest of the way up the river (at the aforementioned 3 knots) to the Delaware City Marina and decided to stay here until tomorrow. The first thing the proprietor, Tim, said to me was "You came up the bay yesterday? That was dumb."
> But, I made it. I have all day today to try and figure out my prop issue. And get a shower and do some laundry.


Ok , I looked at what you said and this may seem negative , and I'm not an expert by any means, but have good experience on the route you took. Please look at this as a learning experience as it may seem critical and harsh but it's not meant that way

First of all you posted you went in some inlet which you later found out was Barnegat. You had no issues. Barnegat is a very dangerous inlet for a sailboat , we use it, but we have previous knowledge. No where on here did I see you call the CG station there or Boat US there and ask about the conditions there. You lucked out. Each year there are at least 100 sailboat groundings comming in that inlet. Each year there are a few boats lost there, power or sail. I used to live very close to there for 18 years so I understand that inlet well. The angels were with you . But what's incredulous is that in your planning you didn't research your bailout points . For others...the Jersey shore is incredibly inhospitable to a sailboat and you should do your due diligence here. Sailing the ocean is different than the Chessie, and inlets present some of the greatest danger of

Next Cape May. You had a rough day beating the 27 miles from Atlantic City to the Cape May Inlet in major swells. Trips south on the NJ coast in summer usually encounter headwinds. Imperative to leave in the early AM before the ocean breeze kicks in from the SE. at noon. Usually staying close to the shoreline protects you from the SW early AM fetch.

You appear to have done no planning on Cape May. Where you tied up and left your boat to go shop is not allowed. You had options. Stay at Utches for $2 a foot protected was an easy one. You choose not to anchor in the only spot to anchor in Cape May Harbor which is off the Coat Gaurd Station. I'm sure there were other sailboats anchored there. It is out of the channel, good holding, far enough away from the head fishing boats so as to have a peaceful night. In addition the big fishing boats EXPECT boats to be anchored there. In addition Cape May Harbor is littered with an old marine railway with cables on the bottom and littered with broken infrastructure. No one I know just a plops an anchor down off the main channels between greens and reds. Also the bottom isn't as receptive to anchoring. It's possible you presented yourself as a hazard to other boaters who probably were not looking for you to be anchored there. The canal and harbor are busy places.

Now your trip up the Delaware. You seem to have chosen to ignore the advice. You only made 30 miles from the Canal to Pierson Cove on the Delaware side. That's 30 miles in 8 hours ( 10-6) or less than 4 knots traveling. Considering that when you have the CURRENT assisting you you get to go 8+ knots motor sailing and you have covered that distance in less than 4 hours. So what happened. I looked on the apps and you FOUGHT the current. I remember my advice was specifically to leave and hour before the Ebbb CURRENT switched . You either need to get an Eldridge book or better yet spend 40 bucks and get a Navionics Ap which has all this on it.

It sounds like you tried to sail this . Accidental gybes down wind can be prevented by a preventor. Your conditions were accentuated because you had the wind behind you and current running toward you. That built up the waves. And the Delaware is one of the worst places for that. It is famous for its square waves teeth rattling waves at 3 second intervals.

So the errors compound and you now anchor in an exposed open area in the narrow part of the Delaware where the current runs the swiftest where the river narrows. Anchoring in a 3 knot reversing current requires skill as well as good technique. Also I suggest figuring out how to rig a Kellet as when the current reverses you can have the breeze coming toward you stern at anchor which as it turns will wrap you anchor around you keel or prop. You were lucky it didn't happen. Anchoring out in the open on the Delaware is not a good practice. Good you stopped in Delaware City.

It took you three days to travel what should have been 1 day. Almost every time we have ridden from where you anchored in Cape May through the C&D Canal to the Sassafrass using the current as your assist. It REQUIRES that you motor or motorsail . It requires you cut the angles and not wind up on the Delaware side , it requires you crossing the shipping channel only when you get up near the nuke plant.

I'm sure this was a great learning experience , but you were also so very lucky . Traveling down the Jersey coast is no joke and requires a little more planning than you stated on here. You were lucky going in Barnegat. You were lucky in Cape May Harbor. You were lucky you only broke the gooseneck and not the mast on an inhospitable River . You were lucky you didn't wrap your anchor or get washed ashore when the tanker wash lifted it off the bottom.

The Chessie is much more benign and forgiving than the route you traveled. . Kudos for the attempt but maybe you do more planning next time with an experienced traveler, of your route .

Please take this a constructive criticism even though it appears to be harsh. I a must sure a few others on here like me wished you well but shook their heads on the lack of planning or not recognizing the potential dangers

Glad your back safely in home waters. I'll look forward To see you on the Bay as we sail the same waters and would enjoy your company in an anchorage.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

TakeFive said:


> As some here warned, the Delaware Bay can really kick your butt.
> 
> I had similar issues my only time in DelBay 5 years ago:
> 
> ...


I'm not crazy about doing this on Haleakula as it puts the center of motion/ stress way forward and the chance of burying the bow is greater. It also can change you boat from being pushed forward at the mast and pulled at the bow to being only pulled forward from the bow. To me this increases the bow only of the boat diving downward as you fall over the following swell face.

I learned to sail a jib/ main combo on a hobie 16. A jib only configuration down wind in steep sea state meant potential pitch pole and lots of stress on the rigging. Sometimes I think this get camoflauged on our big sturdy keel boats as they are not so weight/ force sensitive. Loading up on the bow on a Hobie is "turtle time"

Also you can wrap a headsail. Or you get a surging snapping of the jib.

I prefer to rig a preventer on the toerail for the main so it can't move. A solid Vang could also be used. In heavy following wind and sea state I reef also so I don't get overpowered.

Had he embarked with the wind and current both headed up the River, chances are it would not have been nearly as rough.


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

If anyone is in the market for a boom preventer, Garhauer makes an excellent one and they sell for only a little over $100 at the Annapolis boat show. I couldn’t put one together with individual off the shelf parts anywhere as nice as the Garhauer setup at their price.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Indevolatile said:


> Today about 9am I motored the rest of the way up the river (at the aforementioned 3 knots) to the Delaware City Marina and decided to stay here until tomorrow. The first thing the proprietor, Tim, said to me was "You came up the bay yesterday? That was dumb."
> But, I made it. I have all day today to try and figure out my prop issue. And get a shower and do some laundry.


Hey what doesn't kill you, doesn't kill you. And if you always wait for "best" conditions you sit around a lot. I think you doing fine, but you could use a little better trip planning.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

W


Don0190 said:


> Hey what doesn't kill you, doesn't kill you. And if you always wait for "best" conditions you sit around a lot. I think you doing fine, but you could use a little better trip planning.


If you're a sailor you can handle the best and the worst of conditions. Only a fool creates the worst of conditions when you have a choice.


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## Indevolatile (Nov 3, 2006)

As far as my route up the Delaware Bay, I basically cut straight out from the Cape May canal, past the Brandywine Shoal Light, and followed the outside edge of the shipping channel all the way up. I crossed the channel about the time that I could see both shores.
Oh, the prop issue did indeed turn out to be four little stowaways in a cage, tied to my rudder. I tied a rope around my waist the next morning, jumped in, and freed them. 
The trip down the Chesapeake was pretty quiet, except for the fact that someone upstream had opened a dam due to all the recent rain, and I was dodging logjams most of the way. It seemed to clear up about the time I passed the bay bridge, but that was yesterday and may no longer be the case. I'm currently safely harbored in Deale, and planning my next move.


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## 505722 (Jun 17, 2018)

Love the Chesapeake Bay, near Norfolk... its a gorgeous sail... some big daddy traffic in there though. Be careful.


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