# Lost Spot track - Protocol?



## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

A coworker has been tracking his brothers progress sailing from Ft Lauderdale to West End, Grand Bahama using the Spot tracker. The Spot was reporting every 30 minutes like clockwork, but has not updated since 9:30 this AM, when the vessel was perhaps 30-40NM south and west of West End. The updates include battery status and the battery showed good on the last update. 

Is anyone familiar with the SPOT tracker and when this should go from mild concern to full alarm? His call to the Company was essentially useless.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

I would imagine there are a number of benign reasons why it isn't tracking. Does his brother know if he has any other emergency locator devices, like, a PLB, or EPIRB?


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I've lost spot tracks for hours on end with my Gen3 unit. It could be something as simple as something being placed on top of the spot, a certain point of sail where the spots signal is being interfered with by rig or sun cover. I haven't encountered it personally but I have heard that water intrusion can be an issue with the Gen 3 models in particular. So rain or spray could cause that. Then of course, there is the possibility of battery issues. 

It's impossible to know what the cause of your friends lost track is.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Barquito said:


> I would imagine there are a number of benign reasons why it isn't tracking. Does his brother know if he has any other emergency locator devices, like, a PLB, or EPIRB?


I don't think they have an EPIRB or PLB.

Weather and satellite coverage are possible sources of the interruption of updates, but the lack of guidance for this situation is rather vexing.

The plan at this point is to contact the marina they are headed to around 1500 if the track never reappears and they have not checked in. A second look at the last position indicates the remaining distance was more like 25NM.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

This is the problem with things like the SPOT. The messages stop coming, and within a couple of hours people are panicking and ready to call for SAR. Personally, I wouldn't even THINK about hitting the panic button until tomorrow morning.

You don't mention what kind of boat he is in, but if it's a sailboat then it could easily take him more than 5 hours to go 25 nm. If that's the case then there is NO reason for panic until 5 or 6 pm tonight. And what if he decides not to stop at the same marina that he originally was considering? Maybe, once across the Stream, he will decide that he might as well keep going a little further.

Of course, he SHOULD have been carrying an EPIRB. Then he could send his own emergency alert if he needed to. His choice not to carry an EPIRB says to me that he was willing to accept the risk. Perhaps you should to.

(I know this sounds a little harsh, but it really is not intended that way. I am sympathetic, but losing SPOT tracking is just not something to panic over.)


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

denverd0n said:


> This is the problem with things like the SPOT. The messages stop coming, and within a couple of hours people are panicking and ready to call for SAR. Personally, I wouldn't even THINK about hitting the panic button until tomorrow morning.
> 
> You don't mention what kind of boat he is in, but if it's a sailboat then it could easily take him more than 5 hours to go 25 nm. If that's the case then there is NO reason for panic until 5 or 6 pm tonight. And what if he decides not to stop at the same marina that he originally was considering? Maybe, once across the Stream, he will decide that he might as well keep going a little further.
> 
> ...


I tend to agree with you and your arguments are sound, but new technologies create new opportunities to worry. The sailor in question has made the trip several times before with no tracker so you'd never start worrying until they were several hours overdue in the past but now?

Would you feel the same way if it was your brothers that might be treading water for 7 hours or so, before anyone made a phone call?

I see the discussion as something of an argument in favor of EPIRB or PLB that only alert in the event of an emergency.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

In addition to tracking and check in feature, the SPOT does also have manual non emergency help and SOS trigger functions. The fact that neither of those have been triggered is noteworthy.

And yes, I carry a 406 PLB in addition to a SPOT. If I had a bigger boat and or went offshore I would have an EPIRB as well.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

Hey,

You didn't way which spot model he has, but mine, a gen 2 unit, will stop sending tracking information after 24 hours. After 1 day you need to manually press the button to resume transmitting the track. So it might be as simple as that.

Note that if you do have an emergency you are supposed to press the SOS button. Missing a tracking location is not a reason to notify SAR.

Barry


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I posted this pic to another thread, but it shows a good example of a lost SPOT track. This is my SPOT track (Gen 3, new batteries) uploaded to google earth after the fact. As can be seen, the SPOT was tracking perfectly with a signal every 10 minutes. Then the track was completely lost on the up wind leg from Tavernier to Key Largo, which represented about two hours sailing or 12 spot tracks. The cause was simply my sailing partner moving to a different part of the boat and his body blocked the signal. When we arrived at our destination, he moved from his position and one final SPOT signal was shown before we shut it down. We had no way of knowing that the SPOT wasn't tracking since its a one way system, it doesn't receive any kind of error message when it isn't tracking.

If the user goes to send a check in message, he might become aware of the lost tracking at that time, or he may not, but there is a chance the checkin will reset the tracking process. The issue with the protocol, is SPOT doesn't define the protocol, the protocol is designed by the users which would have been verbal or written instructions on what to do in the event of lost tracking, a check in, a custom message a non emergency help and an SOS. In the absence of instructions from the Captain to the shore team, its any bodies guess what the next step is. SPOT only steps in, in the event of an SOS being triggered. Beyond that, its up to the Captain and the shore party.


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## SeaStar58 (Feb 14, 2018)

With the storm front that went through Florida and is now heading on to the Bahamas bringing rain and thunderstorms that are not supposed to clear until Thursday and start again on Friday was he trying to beat them there? Could just be the general overcast conditions from the front blocking signal. Its supposed to clear up and be pretty nice by Sunday the 29th but squally and TStorms off and on until then.

https://www.accuweather.com/en/bs/west-end/31771/daily-weather-forecast/31771?day=1

The prior front is hitting Cuba right now:
https://www.accuweather.com/en/bs/west-end/31771/satellite/31771


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

The Spot track reappeared after about a 5 hour outage, shortly prior to the time my co-worker had decided he would take action. The vessel is now safely in West End.

They were unaware the tracker stopped reporting and the cause will remain a mystery.


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## denverd0n (Jun 20, 2008)

PalmettoSailor said:


> Would you feel the same way if it was your brothers that might be treading water for 7 hours or so, before anyone made a phone call?


Understanding the limitations of SPOT, yes, I would.

SPOT is nice for what it is, but it has some serious limitations. A hiccup in the SPOT track absolutely should NOT be the basis for a land-side watcher to call out the dogs.

I used to do multi-day, mountain, snowshoeing trips with some buddies of mine in Colorado. I carried a SPOT with me. I also did week-long hunting trips, by myself, up into the mountains where I was out of touch the entire time. I always told my wife that if she got a location on me via the SPOT it was just a little nice information. I made it clear to her that NOT seeing a "track" from SPOT was absolutely NOT a reason to worry, or to call out SAR. That was NOT the purpose of SPOT, and it could NOT be relied upon for that sort of thing.

I did have the common good sense to carry a PLB with me on these trips, though.

So, no matter if it was my brother, my daughter, or my wife, I would NOT call out SAR just because a SPOT signal was lost. If they are seriously overdue at their destination, THAT is when you alert SAR.

(And, by the way, it is because of the limitations of SPOT, that I got rid of the thing. There are other, better ways -- in my opinion -- to keep people abreast of where you are if you want to. Not as cheap, perhaps, but also not as likely to generate unwarranted panic, either.)


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

We use a gen3 spot.
Usually put 3 people on receive. My daughter, my weather router, another reliable person ( my wife if she isn’t on passage or a crew’s S.O.) trackers are requested to download our areas gribs or text weather at least once a day. Gives them a heads up if we are likely to get into trouble. We are also tracked via AIS.
We check spot before leaving in the position it will be left in. Have found hanging it on grab rail above nav station gives unobstructed signal to satellite(s). We check in twice a day. SSB conversation to weather router, email or voice via satphone, manual spot and manual GO and if on SDR vhf to nearby boat if available.
Have had multiple occasions where either or neither SSB, spot, OCEN serviced GO, globalstar satphone have worked. We carry a EPIRB for the boat/raft, personal epribs and AISs. Our attitude remains
If you didn’t bring it with you you don’t have it
By the time they come you have either figured it out or are swimming.
No device made by man will work every time.
Dependency on any automatic signaling device incurs risk. Rule is missed manual check in times two and no activity by other means call CG or whatever is nearby SAR service. Missed check in times one reach out via satphone, GO and Sailmail. Seems to eliminate false calls and lower stress.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Palmetto-
By all means, don't be afraid to call your local USCG station. Every one of them is able to literally transfer any phone call to any other USCG station, and they do that as normal daily business.

I missed out on a delivery trip some years ago (no SPOT, no cell phones) my friend went along, and their plans were "seven days, ten at the max before we are overdue." On the ninth night my friend's wife calls and asks, isn't it time? So I called the local USCG station, who transferred me to district, who transferred me to other district, who transferred me to the nearest station to their departure port. And I explained, the boat is not overdue YET but they will be tomorrow, what do I need to know if that happens?

They faxed over a multi-page form to fill out including boat hull color (duh, white?), deck color (white?) sail color (white??) and all sorts of things you often don't think about. And they said by all means, when and if the boat is overdue, REPORT IT. But in the meantime, they would start asking around the departure area to see if anyone had in fact seen the vessel depart and so on. Just routine business for them.

Today, you at least know a known position as well as a probable ETA. You can certainly work out the likely ETA, and by all means...call the USCG, let them know the tracker has stopped, you are concerned, could they issue a watch and perhaps a radio broadcast to vessels in the area asking if anyone has seen them.

The SAR folks are truly professionals, they'll let you know what and when to do. part of their routine mission is to look, to observe, to see what is out there.

Odds are it is just the usual "damned electronics!". That's what happened to my friend. Small boat, small electrical system. Alternator failed, engine eventually quit, storm system moved in and left them with few options--but just "a damned inconvenience" not an emergency. They got in by noon on the tenth day, about 700 miles short of where they had intended to be.

And if you happen to send a letter to your CongressCritter asking them to PLEASE boost the USCG budget for SAR....that's the finest thanks you can give them and what they need most.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

denverd0n said:


> Understanding the limitations of SPOT, yes, I would.
> 
> (And, by the way, it is because of the limitations of SPOT, that I got rid of the thing. There are other, better ways -- in my opinion -- to keep people abreast of where you are if you want to. Not as cheap, perhaps, but also not as likely to generate unwarranted panic, either.)


Fortunately for me, I did my mountaineering when no electronics beyond a flashlight were required equipment.

Based on this short experience, I'm with you on a Spot being rather less than ideal.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

I have one of these spot trackers. You don't call SAR based on missing pins. You do it based on loss of communication, or a distress call...and then the spot information gets you to the rescue location. The spot is immersion rated, and in any case if you saw it dead stopped but still putting down locations that would be pretty suspicious. Or going off course. Even then, you have to back it up with comms, or lack of. 

Spot is great technology - mine has been reliable and trustworthy but has limitations. But its only one leg of a safety plan. One limitation is a few short lapses of data and another is the the sender is not aware of what the SPOT is doing.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

Sal Paradise said:


> Spot is great technology - mine has been reliable and trustworthy but has limitations. But its only one leg of a safety plan. One limitation is a few short lapses of data and another is the the sender is not aware of what the SPOT is doing.


Like any technology the onus is on the user to understand the limitations. I have found my SPOT to be reasonably reliable as well. It does lose tracking some times, and it does miss check ins some times. My biggest gripe with the device actually isn't anything to do with how it functions, its the subscription cost and roll over I find annoying.

I don't think SPOT was really designed with Yachting primarily in mind. As far as I know it was designed for mountaineering. Because it is designed to be carried on the person of people doing athletic stuff, it is really small and really light. I assume some of the limitations it has is because you can only fit so much power into such a small package. My SPOT is considerably smaller and lighter than my wearable PLB. Probably about 2/3 the size and 114 Grams for the SPOT vs 164 grams for my Mcmurdo Fast Find Ranger. Folks that do much in the way of mountaineering will appreciate the smaller weight and size of a SPOT. The weight and size difference is pretty irrelevant on even a small boat, but they are useful across multiple sporting disciplines.

I have participated in more than one adventure style race where SPOTs were required equipment. In a racing context, they are sometimes required because they make it harder to cheat, it gives both race organizers and other competitors some confidence that folks are actually following the race course rather than taking a short cut.

Manual trigger devices like PLB, SPOT, GMDSS are excellent, but even they have limitations in that you have to be able to trigger them. Some emergencies happen so quickly *EPIRB style devices may not be triggered. With a SPOT on tracking, at the very least you have a last known position of somebody in the event that a search is triggered, takes a lot of the search out of Search and Rescue. Personally I like to carry both.

Had a cousin pass away this winter in a ski mountaineering tree well accident. For that type of incident a last known position prior to an emergency is very valuable information.


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