# 81 Catalina 38 '' Sparkman Stevens



## ccnightsail (Mar 3, 2003)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

My wife and I are looking to upgrade to a larger sailboat. We would like to live aboard. I am 6''2" tall so head room is a must. We were looking at a 1981 cal 38'' with Sparksman Stevens style - nice lines. The hull is very beamie. I understand this is a faster boat (sailing) but has only a 25hp
universal atomic. We live on cape cod and 
would like to travel the canal. I understand that 38 to 50 hp is desireable to motor.
The Hull is a # 108. The cockpit is long but
narrow. the the aft is swept back and not
wide. What are your thoughts on this boat.
Asking $44k. But I think $33k would be more like it. Is the motor too small ? 
What I am looking for is Room, no slug sailing, and a generally good boat.


----------



## Denr (Feb 7, 2001)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

With no due respect, what the hell do you mean "Sparkman Stevens" style? S&S never drew ugly lines like the Catalina 38, give me a break! If you''re worried about the engine, I''ve got one word for you......TRAWLER.


----------



## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

Denr,

Not to confuse the issue with too many facts, but there is a Catalina 38 made in the early ''80''s that was designed by Sparkman and Stephens (at least the hull was.) I came across one during a race here on the Chesapeake a few years ago. It was ghosting along next to the boat I was crewing on close enough for us to chat for a bit. The C-38 crew made it clear they were there for the beer. IOR influences in the (pinched) stern as described in the first post. Not sure how this S&S design made it into the Catalina line up either.

This model is not to be confused with the WAS (wide ass stern for the uninitiated) of the newer C-38''s or 380s or whatever they are called.

Humbly submitted,

SailorMitch


----------



## tsenator (Nov 6, 2000)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

Yep, SailorMitch is correct.

There are two 38 foot boats from Catalina. The current C380 and the older C38 (Actually three now, they changed The C380 slightly and its now a C387).

The original boat was designed by Sparkman and Stephens to be built as a one-off racing design. The hull form was then purchased by the Yankee Boat Company in Marina del Rey, California. They built approximately 30 Yankee 38''s before the business failed. Frank Butler of Catalina Yachts purchased the molds from Yankee, and started building the C38. He also, so the story goes, called Sparkman
and Stephens for permission to advertise it as a Sparkman and Stephens design. He made the Catalina 38 a faster boat than the Yankee 38, and as a result for years it replaced the Cal 40 as the official Congressional Cup boat, one of the top match
racing regattas in the world. It was, in turn, replaced by the Capri 37, also made by Catalina Yachts .

An interesting article on the racing configuration of the Catalina 38 can be found in the 8th edition of Royce''s Sailing Illustrated.

Here is a picture of one http://www.catalina38.org/images/quinn480.jpg


----------



## ccnightsail (Mar 3, 2003)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

None taken, Denr. 
I own a beginner boat Oday 22'' for the last 4 seasons - so I have an excuse about not knowing about Catalina''s. As to my comments about the motor, my brother in law owns an Endevor which has a cockpit the size of a living room and has 50 hp for motoring. Since the Endevors displacement is an extra 7000 lbs, from the Cal 38 I was describing, it probably needs the extra 25 hp to push the thing around. He likes to motor everywhere so he reccomended to me that the 25 hp sounded insufficent to make thru the Cape Cod Canal in an efficent manner. I don''t think motor sailing everywhere is my idea of sailing. While I have taken almost every course the cape cod power squadron has to offer, I dont claim to be an expert but I was going on what the Broker told me about the hull design. And Yes, a trawler might be faster than my Oday 22''. Sailor Mitch - Thanks for your input. How did you think the C38 did when you were sailing along side it? If you recall, how did it look in the water? Displacement: 15900 Thanks


----------



## SailorMitch (Nov 18, 2005)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

Nightsail,

I can''t offer an opinion on how well the boat sailed since the winds were so light at that particular moment. plus, I was in a friend''s (slow) Newport 31, so almost anything else would''ve been faster in light air. Plus, the crew of the C-38 was drinking quite a bit. 

As for the engine size, 25 HP for a boat that displaces 15900 lbs is skimpy by today''s standards, but about what you''d expect in a boat from that era. Today the rule of thumb is 1HP for each 500 lb of displacement, meaning the C-38 "should" have at least 32 HP. Personally I wouldn''t let that 7 HP stop you if the boat otherwise suits your needs/desires. My 2 cents anyway.


----------



## ccnightsail (Mar 3, 2003)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

Tsenator - Many thanks for your info. I am still considering this boat (1981 Cal 38) over my friends Oday 34 1981 ( mint cond)
it looks like a lot wood work is required on the inside but may prove to be a fast sailing boat. What are your ideas on this boat as to Blue Water - as I would like to sail from Cape Cod to Maine coast for summer vacations.


----------



## tsenator (Nov 6, 2000)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

ccnightsail,

Are you saying its a Cal38 or a Catalina 38. I reeally don''t know anything about the Cal38?

As far as the original Catalina 38''s, it''s considered a bit more of a racing type in its heritage as compared to other Catalina''s. Its relatively fast as compared to other Catalinas also. I have heard, on a run down wind with some seas running it can be a bit "squirley" and a little more to handle with a short handed crew than a heavy type boat. As for Blue Water - That is a whole debate in itself, and I guess its how you define Blue Water. But suffice it to say the Catalina 38 has probably one of the best reputations of the Catalina out there, but remember these boats are getting older, so a good survey is in always in order.

Go here for some info and contact info http://www.catalina38.org/


----------



## tsenator (Nov 6, 2000)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

ccnightsail, one more thing. I have to agree with you as far as the engine, Yes even though nobody wants to motor everywhere. Sometimes a good strong healthy motor is a necessity, especially when you are faced with the currents up around our area. Places like Hell''s Gate on the east river or the CC canal with 5-7 knots current, can at times make it a necessity.

I heard from a couple that chucked it all and went Cruising (They write for cruising world now) and they said if there was ONE thing they wish they could have modifyed on their boat, it would be to have a "bigger engine". Even though they sail thousands of miles, they still used that engine, and they have said that when they really needed it, it would have been nicer to have more HP. If your a day sailor it matters a bit less.


----------



## Silmaril (Feb 22, 2003)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

While the horspower rating is a major factor to concider, it''s the PROP that gets the power to the water. On many of these racer/cruiser designs, a feathering Martek was the standard. These props, when folded give little or no drag. Great when racing, however they have reduced "push" when in forward and will downright scare you in reverse! If you are mostly cuising, go for a PROPERLY sized three bladed fixed prop. The formula for sizing a prop can be quite intimidating and is usually best left for the professionals. Although I recall a good article from Sail Magazine a few years ago that shed some light on the process. And remember, hull speed is a major limiting factor, once hit, a displacement hull takes a huge increase in power to go beyond it, so with a good three blade prop, your 25hp should be sufficient.

The Catalina 38 is a really nice sailing boat. IMHO, superior to many of today''s floating motels. Back then, IOR was the International OCEAN Racing formula, where boats were expected to compete in long distance off-shore races. The "Squirely" running before the wind problems were more when the wind was 25kts+ and you were carrying your 1.5oz radial ''chute in large (8''+) following seas. Plan on doing any of that?

Good luck, hope this helps!


----------



## tsenator (Nov 6, 2000)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

That is true about the props. One question to the original poster, was I to read that that is an Atomic 4 gasoline engine?

Either way a 25HP is not really undersized, just a bit on the lower side for todays standards. But if you want to get the most "Oomph" out of your engine the prop to go with IMHO is the Autoprop. The reason is that the Autoprop is self-pitching in theory always finding the correct pitch depending on conditions and boat speed. I know of a lot of C36 owners that put the Autoprop on older C36''s that had the 25XP engine and most say they saw a noticeable increase in boat speed at all engine RPM''s. Not a cheap alternative (about $2k+) unless you might be able to find one used. But much cheaper that re-powering your boat!


----------



## flyingbear (Nov 2, 2000)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

ccnightsail,

I owned C-38 #297 (1985 model) for 5 years. My wife & I lived aboard in SF Bay all that time. Our boat was a well equiped x-racer so we had the full complement of sails. The diesel was a Universal 5424 - 24 HP coupled to a Martec folding prop. I never thought the boat was under powered. In fact, motoring upwind in a chop when we were returning from the Sacremento/San Joaquin river delta, we motored away from a Tayana 42, a J-120, and kept up with a Swan 43 (we were all members of the same yacht club returning from a summer cruise). The Swan was also a S&S design. As far as sailing qualities, she rated PHRF 117 on SF Bay and I always could sail to that rating. The boat was close winded, really liked to reach, but as another poster mentioned kind of a handful dead down wind with the kite up. The my C-38 was also built well. Never broke anything the whole time we owned her. My old C-38 is on the C-38 website under pictures - Flying Bear''s haulout.


----------



## SKaminsky (Apr 27, 2001)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

With all due respect Denr,

Perhaps you should think before you write!

It will probably be a new experience for you.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

Have a friend with the Stevens designed boat. I have a standare Cat 36...he''s a little faster. However both he and the previous owner complained of not enough room in the galley.....and head, as compared to my 86 model 36''. He is also having a time figuring out where to put his new air conditioner. Just some thoughts.


----------



## tsenator (Nov 6, 2000)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

Hmmm. "a little faster"?

I have a Cat 36 (and I love the boat), but I think in the Cat 38 would probably sail circles around me. I think the Cat 36 is rated about 146 and someone here said the Cat 38 is rated 117 on San Fran Bay. But I bet my Cat 36 is much easier to single hand. I have had no problem even in heavier weather, and I have talked to many other Cat 36 owners that say the same thing. I guess for my short-handed type sailing the Cat 36 is best for me (not to mention the room and set-up down below), but the Cat 38 is a pretty boat.


----------



## CAlbertson (Nov 4, 2002)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

The C38 (not the newer C380) was designed by S&S for Catalina. Catalina built a one design fleet of these boats for the Govenor''s cup race in Long Beach, CA and they also offered the C38 for sale to the public. They only built a couple hundred of these.

The boat was intended to be a true racer/cruiser. I own a Catalina C36 and know for a fact the C38 will leave me over the horizon in any kind of race. Here in So. Cal. there is still and active racing fleat of C38s.

Today if you want a "performance cruiser" at budget price anold C38 might be it. As built they lack all the neat features and equipment of today''s boats but water makers, chart plotters and refridgeration can be added by the new owner.

One good thing about the C38 vs. other Catalinas is that the C38 will likely have been raced and will come with a good sail inventory and a set of spinnackers. While most other Catalinas will come with only a roller furler headsail and a main.

I would expect the C38 to motor at about 6 knots.

But if you want to motor up and down a channel why are you looking at a sailboat? Get something with twin diesels.


----------



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

I looked at one a few years back and felt the headroom was adequate for me at 5''8" but how well did you fit?


----------



## doncx (Nov 27, 2004)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

Your forum thread is a year and a half old, but I''m moved to contribute in any case. I hope you bought the Cat 38!

I''ve sailed a Catalina 38 for several years (hull #357, built in 1988). She''s a spectacular boat, indeed designed by S&S, and many truths about the design were discussed in the thread.

She loves to go to windward, and is in fact a bit ''squirelly'' off-wind. She was under-powered when we had a two-blade prop, but goes well with a new three-bladed prop, easily making 6 knots. Just the same, going through the CC canal against the current wouldn''t be my preference.

If you''re near Rhode Island, and own the Catalina, reply and perhaps we can compare notes further.

- Don


----------



## paulmcquillan (Jan 4, 2002)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

The S&S Catalina 38 was used as the match boats in the invitation-only Long Beach Congressional Cup.


----------



## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

*81 Catalina 38 '''' Sparkman Stevens*

ccnightsail,

I''d suggest you contact a C-38 owner with the Atomic 4 engine and ask what the cruising speed is. Get on the most relevant email group and you can probably find one.

As to passing the CC canal, don''t base your boat decision on that concern! You should time any transist to go with the current anyway - if you do, you can pass throught he canal quite quickly even if your motor is off... As long as you can cruise 5 MPH the engine is adequate.

What you need to worry about is the costs you may face with your first, larger boat. You are jumping into a much bigger hole-in-the-water than your 22. Get a survey from a top-notch, premium price, name surveyor. Search Sailnet for other messages on this subject.

For a boat of this age, at these low dollars ($44k is cheap - a very big RED FLAG!), you could end up taking a real financial bath. Think of the purchase price as more of a downpayment than the full cost of the boat. Simple expenses such as a new exaust and FW cooling system would be more than the full cost of your ODay. If the boat isn''t being sold with a full suite of recent upgrades (rigging, sails, motor, wiring, electronics, cushions, the list is long) then they may fall on your watch.

I personally have always liked the looks of a C-38 and consider the Atomic 4 an Ok power solution, so I''d encourage to to consider this model - as to any particular boat, proceed only with the advice of a expert surveyor (and engine surveyor also), as it will be the best $800 bucks you spend on your boat.

Good luck


----------



## falcolnxp (Dec 21, 2011)

*engine OK maybe you want a bigger boat if you are young and strong*

young and strong bigger boat if experienced sailor
no way to know but to look at 3 or 4 boats near same price and size
lots of boats out there now
Capt bob


----------



## CBinRI (May 17, 2004)

falcolnxp said:


> young and strong bigger boat if experienced sailor
> no way to know but to look at 3 or 4 boats near same price and size
> lots of boats out there now
> Capt bob


No quibble with your response but I think the thread is almost ten years old.

Since it appears to have been revived, for what it's worth, I am familiar with that model and, although dated, it is one of the more handsome Catalinas that I have seen. But I am partial to S&S designs.


----------

