# cleaning the prop



## rperret (Apr 11, 2003)

My prop needs constant cleaning - on the order of every 3-4 weeks. (in saltwater in a crappy harbor in Connecticut).

Yes, I know and have used a diver. But in my quest to save more (new deck, new walkway, new driveway, new patio - all in past 3 months)...boat bucks need to be extended further.

I know people will dive at their mooring to give their prop a quick clean - my question is HOW can one keep that steady underwater to clean the prop - since I assume you need two hands - one to hold the prop, the other to scrape it.

Do folks run a line amidships? Wear a PFD? Wait til dead low tide (not a real option - the harbor where I am moored also has the sewage treatment plant...) so prefer high tide (about 12-13 ft of water.) Can I hang onto the propshaft?

Appreciate any input here - life was simpler when my last boat had the outboard.

Rick


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## k1vsk (Jul 16, 2001)

put the transmission in gear (preferably with the engine off) and hang onto the prop with one hand - it won't move.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Rick, the hardest part of cleaning a part is holding your breath while not getting all banged up into the hull. You take a big breath so you can stay down, and you are buoyant so you bang your head into the hull. Not good. And you might want to wear a "painting shirt" because you will be full of bottom paint if you use the ablative kind.

A light weight belt can help if you are too buoyant. GLOVES are strongly suggest. What I do is grab the prop shaft with one hand, to stay down and put (and if there are barnacles on that, you don't want to grab it barehanded, the cuts will infect) and attack the prop, one blade at a time, with a heavy wire brush, paint scraper, or other suitable implement of destruction.
Wearing a PFD would be impossible--you couldn't stay under to work. Wearing a safety line is good practice--if you have someone above to hold it, or you are working in current. More important, every tool you work with needs to be on a leach--or you will drop it and lose it. Or have it float away.
If you have a mask or goggles, wear them to keep the crud out of your eyes. Personally I'd rather leave the mooring field and get into cleaner water--you never know who's been dumping the head directly, and I'd rather not swim in it.
I suppose ti would be easier to tie a heavy paper bag over the prop every time you moor, and just blow it off when you start up the engine. Presumably with a clean prop still inside, and some biodegradable pulp shredding off when you start. (Whoa! Politically incorrect! < G > )


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## trantor12020 (Mar 11, 2006)

Rick, I've just done that yesterday. Dive in with glove and scraper. I won't suggest using weight 'cos when you're out of breathe you want to surface in double-quick time. I lost count how many time I came up for air. Don't forget, you're not just holding your breathe, you're working so your breathe won't last long. Use flippers/fins, it help you ascend quickly and stay buoyant on surface with little effort. If banking your head on hull is a problem, wear a bicycle helmet. 
As for the holding, I hang on to the prop, clean one blade at a time (this is the one time I wish I hadn't change from 2 blades to 3, more to clean), you can turn the prop as you clean, also clean the prop-shaft. It certainly help if there isn't much wake.
Ropes along the length of hull is useful for cleaning waterline.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

I use a Rubbermaid wire brush/scraper for cleaning running gear. Some divers use stainless steel wool.










Since you're already willing to get into the water to maintain at least part of your boat, you might consider taking a SCUBA course. Then you could buy or rent gear and do all your underwater maintenance yourself in relative comfort and ease. I bet it would pay for itself many times, over the span of your boat ownership.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I dove on my boat quite often and found that a weight belt was a must. I use about 8 lbs. but I am a big guy so start with four and work your way up as needed. Wear gloves and use a scraper and a wire brush as appropriate. If you don't have a wetsuit...wear long sleeves to prevent getting sliced by small barnacle. I generally hold on to the propshaft or strut with one hand while cleaning with the other. I would never tie a line to myself but generally leave on hanging overboard to hang on t during rests. It is tiring work and many people who are not comfortable diving with a snorkle would tend to panic a bit so I would not attempt this if you are not really that comfortable with your underwater and swimming skills. An alternative to a PADI course and equipment is a hookah system.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"Then you could buy or rent gear"
Not so cheap these days. At least on the east coast, rentals are high. Fills are $6-10 for air, and often ask you to leave the tank for what turns into a week (and two trips of course). Then there are the blasted inspections, no one wants to do a simple annual VIP they want to do a a VIP Plus or something else and turn a $10 job into a $40 annual dog and pony show. Plus the $40-50 hydro every fifth year. (Oh, and leave it for another week or two.)

Casual diving in the northeast can be a pita unless you live within a mile of a shop where the owner hasn't soured on the business yet.

Makes renting a full tank for the casual user into a better idea than owning one. (And I'm afraid to ask what tank rentals are up to.)

Cam, I can only speak for the few folks I know personally who were certified through PADI courses. A step up from "resort" day courses, but the way PADI feeds "nuggets" are certifications for everything individually, makes a lot of us laugh at them. You know, here's a PADI Basic Diving Course, a PADI Swimming Pool Diving Course, a PADI Beach Diving Course, Boat Diving Course, Freshwater Boat Diving Course, Night Diving Course, Compass Diving Course, Handspear/Spearfishing Course, Diving After Lunch Course, Diving Before Lunch Course....
I can see the point of breaking things up into nuggets, I'm just not sure that's a good way to teach a sport where there will be larger issues, and people will "wander" into areas where they have zero knowledge, because it would have meant another course.
I hope the folks I know had untypically poor instruction, or that PADI has grown since those days. I'd be happier to see the whole industry go back to using panic sessions and other ways of screening out folks who simply should't be diving--no matter how profitable the travel pacakages may be.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

camaraderie said:


> An alternative to a PADI course and equipment is a hookah system.


As a professional diver I don't recommend this to anybody. As I have said here many times, anybody breathing compressed air underwater (whether supplied by SCUBA gear or a hookah) should have the safety and health knowledge provided by NAUI or PADI training.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

hellosailor said:


> "Then you could buy or rent gear"
> Not so cheap these days.


Compared to the cost of having a diver out every 3 or 4 weeks? Again, the initial investment and relatively small cost of tank fills and hydros could be paid for many time over during one's boat ownership. If all you did was clean your prop, a single tank might last you all season.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"If all you did was clean your prop, a single tank might last you all season"
A good point. I guess it depends on what price you can get for a diver, bearing in mind that may be whole hull not just prop, which would burn a lot more air. Plus stowing the tank on the boat...and keeping it there all season would mean buying the whole rig, plus (for the casual user) that would mean getting the regulator serviced every year as well as the tank...

They just don't make it cheap, easy, or simple. Add in the value of time and effort, the cost of getting certified...And of course, time and effort to shower or wash down, dry towels, change clothes, all that other good stuff that stops casual sailors from just hopping under the boat. And if there's a diver in the anchorage giving seasonal plans, sometimes it can be reasonable to just pay the diver. (Remember now, I get an agent's fee for whatever business this sends to you. < G > )


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

hellosailor said:


> "They just don't make it cheap, easy, or simple. Add in the value of time and effort, the cost of getting certified...And of course, time and effort to shower or wash down, dry towels, change clothes, all that other good stuff that stops casual sailors from just hopping under the boat. And if there's a diver in the anchorage giving seasonal plans, sometimes it can be reasonable to just pay the diver. )


This is why I can make a living. Hull cleaning ain't rocket science, but it is something most people are unable (or unwilling) to do.



hellosailor said:


> "(Remember now, I get an agent's fee for whatever business this sends to you. < G > )


The check is in the mail.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Fast...well I guess I finally found something to disagree with you on! 
For the record...I have my Padi certification and so know the issues and the coursework. I see no reason why anyone with decent swimming skills should not be able to use a hookah for shallow surface diving. If there were real health and safety issues those things would be outlawed and the manufacturer's would be in bankruptcy from all the lawsuits.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Cam, if you'd seen some of the nonsense suits in the SCUBA industry lately (ongoing for years, not just recent) and the "Oh, our insurance requires us to" BS given out at so many dive shops...it ain't pretty.

Brownie's may have a nice boilerplate in their warranty or sale papers, or be avoiding liability the same way that SCUBA manufacturers do when uncertified divers get hold of tanks and gear. If they are supplying enough air pressure to breath ten feet under--they are supplying enough to blow out a lung. Liability is a different issue from having the sense to check something out before using it.

"I have my Padi certification" What, only one?! No offense meant, but doesn't that mean you are certified for fresh water lakes and pools with gentle sloping entries, only in the daytime and months without an "R" or something? 

Surely you got multiple certifications, at least to the "Open Water" level?


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

camaraderie said:


> Fast...well I guess I finally found something to disagree with you on!
> For the record...I have my Padi certification and so know the issues and the coursework. I see no reason why anyone with decent swimming skills should not be able to use a hookah for shallow surface diving. If there were real health and safety issues those things would be outlawed and the manufacturer's would be in bankruptcy from all the lawsuits.


You can embolize in very shallow water using compressed air. I think anybody considering diving with it should be aware of the dangers and know how to avoid them. This is the only reason I endorse PADI or NAUI training.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks for the idea guys!!!

I am going to sit and write a PADI hull/prop cleaning speciality tonight!!!!!
I need somemore boat money.

Scott
OWSI 28314


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

HS...yeah I get your point about the "racket". I have open water and actually really enjoyed the course and would like very much to take additional courses to learn the stuff you need to learn for doing night dives, deep dives, cave dives etc. 
The only thing I really object to is that they are essentially a monopoly. I like choices.

Fast...The quality mfrs. like Brownie's have on line courses to learn the way to do it right and the dangers. Here's their users manual:
http://thirdlung.com/pdf/2003 Electric System Manual.pdf


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## rperret (Apr 11, 2003)

All

As always, thanks for the sage advice here. I've thought of taking a diving course of sorts - my son is a very good swimmer (swim team, etc.) and he's expressed interest in diving.

The paperbag over the prop idea is interesting though - i wonder if placing that on would do any good...

Rick


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Dunno. Of course, if you fired up the prop and shredded the bag off within 12 miles of shore it would be a $10,000 MARPOL violation for littering.< G >


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

I wish I had read this post the other day...

Went to my boat armed with a wire brush. Period. I found an old diving mask on board and used that.

Round 1: Go down, bump around, scary. Finally find the prop. Looks like a monster. Grab it with my bare hands. Hands get bit, but I keep going. It's full of barnacles. I just had the boat out in June. 
I lost round 1.

Round 2: Try again same as above. Wire brush just doesn't seem to bother the barnacles much. More barnacle bites.
I lost round 2 too.

I would strongly suggest the diving mask. It is very hard to see even with the mask in the dark green water. Do it on a sunny day and you will be able to see the prop if you get your head about 6-12 inches from the prop. You need to see it to get the little barnacles. You will miss a bunch of them if you can't see properly.

Round 3: After a couple of phone calls, someone suggested a paint scraper. I didn't have a paint scraper. I went down below and looked around. I found.......
An 18 inch pry bar. The kind you pull nails out with and stuff. It has like a 1-2 inch sharpened flat end. Tie the rope through the hole. 

The barnacles came off in sheets. Also, your hand is far enough off the work area, that you don't get bit from the barnacles much.

I won round 3.

Astounding increase in engine performance.


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## groundhog (Jun 27, 2006)

Oh, 
Walked around all weekend with most of my fingers taped up. Got lots of comments.
gh


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

groundhog said:


> Round 2: Try again same as above. Wire brush just doesn't seem to bother the barnacles much. More barnacle bites.
> I lost round 2 too.


A wire brush/scraper combo like the one Rubbermaid makes makes short work of anything on the running gear. I get 'em at Ace Hardware.


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## Bestarius (Sep 4, 2007)

My prop is fairly close to the surface. I only need to stick my head down about a foot to reach it. It's just about 8" too deep with arms extended to be reached without going under. What I did was to attach a 13 inch piece of hose to the end of my snorkel with a hose clamp. I then tied the skyward end to a fender to keep it above water. I then had my wife hold the snorkel leash just in case it decided to dip under the surface. I was then able to wrap my feet around the prop apeture & rudder (rudder attached to full keel) duck my head down below normal snorkel depth with both hands free to scrape the prop without coming up for air. It worked great. I was even able to change the zinc at the end of my MaxProp (three bolts). It's amazing that just being a foot under water did make it a bit difficult to draw breath because of the increased pressure. 

Someone told me what I did was dangerous, but he didn't know why. Anyone know it this is true?


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## BritAbroad (Oct 24, 2006)

It is dangerous. By extending the length of the snorkel, you are increasing the amount of air that you have to pull in before you get fresh stuff. So each breath has more CO2 than you should expect. (Eventually if the hose is long enough you are never getting any fresh air down to your lungs, and it is essentially the same as breathing into a paper bag.)

Add to this the fact that the increased water pressure will mean that you won't be able to breathe as deeply as you would normally (and that you need to do to get past the increased hose length). 

The risk is then that due to increased CO2 content you start to hyperventilate to compensate, shortening your breath further, resulting eventually in asphyxiation and blackout..... (obviously blackout underwater is a bad idea).

You're probably on the edge of OK since you're still alive. Definitely wouldn't lengthen the hose at all though - and ultimately not doing it at all is a safer idea.


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## gilsurf (Dec 12, 2006)

The good news is that if you keep up with it, it is not such a big job. Tiny barnacles are much easier than 2 inches of growth! Another tool: waterproof headlamp: this allows you to see much better and still have 2 hands free. Find any issues? use a waterproof camera with flash (even a throw-away, but digital is better) and then analyze images blown up on your computer.


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## jcollyar (Nov 28, 2001)

Has anyone considered just running the engine ever couple of days with the transmission in gear?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Praise God!*

One of the very few advantages of sailing in the Midwest, we don't have barnacles in the Mississippi. They laughingly call it fresh water! However, you guys who say you have to get within 6-8 inches of the prop before you can see it should try my river! 1-2 inches is good on a VERY sunny day! I once told a sailor in the North Channel in all seriousness that if you pour strong coffee in my sailing ground, you will leave a clean spot. But there are no barnacles, only Zebra Mussels! I'm not certain which is worse -- Zebras will close up your thru-hulls and foul your prop too, but probably more slowly. Ever known someone who burned up an engine because the cooling water supply was shut off by zebra mussels? I have, but then, who would expect a power boater to watch his engine temp gauge! It's hard to see little things like that at 50 mph. Do the barnacles close your thru-hulls?


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## gilsurf (Dec 12, 2006)

Advantages, sailing and midwest in one sentence and related? Humm?? On that note, a big advantage to moving life to warm water is ease of things in the water like props, hulls, etc. On my daily swims, I take a quick pass of the hull and prop, cleaning seagrass from the strainers and noting prop foul (needs a 5 min green scrubby dance).

Clogged plumbing? Yes! In my search for the issue causing a low volume of sea water going to my fridge, I discovered quite an intense colony of tiny barnacles in the hose just past the seacock and before the strainer. Next haul all through hulls are getting a full ream out.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Two quick comments:
1. If you're working on a larger boat, tie an empty milk jug to the end of a short line and tie the other end to the prop shaft when you first find it. Makes it easy to find it again.
2. Use a hatchet for a barnacle scraper. Keeps your fingers away from the sharp shells and won't bend. Personally, I use an old ax head.

Jerry


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

If you are re-breathing air and the hose is too long, your CO2 in solution will rise and you will want to breathe so bad you'll want come up anyway.

Use a narrow hose, and blow hard.

At 1 foot, I think you'll be ok.

Hey, you don't get barnacles in the fresh water of Loch Ness.... come visit you barnacle-dodgers.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Dangerous for two reasons:
The CO2 buildup is something you can work around, if you INhale through the snorkel and EXhale out your mouth or nose--so you don't exhale used air back into the snorkel.
But, lungs are also more fragile than you think. There is some slight risk that if you have a thin spot in your lungs (some people do, there's no way you'd know) the extra effort of sucking the air in could blow it out. Note that I say "slight" risk, you're not pushing it much.
When I was a kid they used to sell 3' long snorkels for kids...that's like trying to breath through a straw, because of the extra water pressure on your lungs. Every foot makes a difference.

CO2 problems have been getting a lot of press this year as kids are dying from "shallow water blackouts", i.e. they are flushing their lungs and then doing breath-holding contests under water. If you flush the CO2 out that way, your body can also fail to sense the normal CO2 buildup and you wind up passing out for no obvious reason--and drowning. Not your problem, but one of the complications when land mammals try to be marine mammals.

BTW, a plain wool watch cap makes good protection for your head. No added buoyancy, some added insulation, some added "banged my noggin on the hull!" protection too. It isn't armor by any means--but it HELPS.


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## ChrisRuck (Feb 14, 2007)

*Prop Cleaning*

Hi

Not that this will help this year! I smear Penaten cream (a Baby's bottom cream (zinc oxide with some medical stuff in it) on the prop and shaft every time I haul out or I go on a tide grid.I put the Penaten cream on in May last year and was on the tide grid last week. The prop was clean but there was some slime and loose barnacles on the shaft. The shaft cleaned up fine with a nylon scouring pad in less than a minute.

The boat is a Fiberglass sail boat in Vancouver BC and is in moored in salt water and has not had much use this year.

My 2c s worth

Chris


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Chris-
With cold water and "little use" almost any grease would stop barnacles from attaching to a prop. But Penateh cream contains, among other things, Cetylpyridinium Chloride which is classed as both an antiseptic and a pesticide. In the US, it probably would be illegal to apply it under a boat without a pesticide license. You could certainly sneak it in--but the threat of state or federal EPA sanctions would pretty much guarantee it can't be sold for this purpose.

Since zinc oxide also has antimicrobial and antifungal properties, it might also be problematic in commercial sales.

Now, if you just smeared Vaseline on one blade, and axle grease on another...we'd have something objective to compare it all to. < G >

"Medicinal Ingredients:Hamamelis Extract .527%, Zinc Oxide 18.724%
Non-medicinal Ingredients: Panthenol 1.055%, Allatonin 0.211%, Cetylpyridinium Chloride 0.106% in Penaten Cream base."


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## Bestarius (Sep 4, 2007)

Thanks all for the input on extending the snorkel length. I never thought of any of those dangers and work-arounds.

I've used Anhydrous Lanolin on my prop with great success. It's available at drug stores and is inexpensive. I believe it's safe for the environment since It's made of sheep wool fat. When you're finished coating your prop, rub the remainder on your lips and have the smoothest lips in town! I've also used it as an anti-seizing compound. I think it's the primary ingredient in Lanocote.

Maybe there are no barnacles in Loch Ness, but what about that monster!!!!

Paul


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## JohnWallace (Oct 27, 2006)

*Cleaning Prop*

Preventive medicine is the best way. After it is cleaned tie a black garbage sack over the prop. No more barnacles or marine growth. They need light.
After each use put another sack. Works for me.

John
Ranger 29
Rockport, TX


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

JohnWallace said:


> Preventive medicine is the best way. After it is cleaned tie a black garbage sack over the prop. No more barnacles or marine growth. They need light.
> After each use put another sack. Works for me.


What you suggest means diving the boat twice each time you use it; once to take the bag off and again when you are putting the boat away to put a bag on. Why not just dive the boat once and clean the prop? Unless I'm missing something here.


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