# Anyone living on a Gemini 105MC



## GCASKEW

What do you like? What have you added, would you recommend adding it? What don't you like about living on a 105MC?

Just an overall appraisal of living on one would be appreciated. It looks like we are leaning that way to retire and take to the Caribbean.

Thanks


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## kd3pc

we did for a few months...not the boat to take to the caribbean unless you are really careful with the weather.

I did not like:
the "RV" fridge..propane/12v/110v....it scared me the entire time. Were it my boat, it would come out and a marine or else just 110v go in.
access to the mechanical drive leg is a chore, and kind of rube goldberg
using the daggerboards required work that took me away from the helm
access to places that somehow collect water is tough. Were it my boat, I would cut some access holes or find where the water is coming from...I think this is addressed in the newer 105MC
tough to keep the weight off, while liveaboard

I did like 
the master cabin and berth
the tilt up of the dinette seat, and the foot ledge below the seat. My wife LOVED it, as she has short legs and could sit there for a long time and still be comfortable.
stable, fast and easy to sail
cockpit is very "captain" friendly and still has room for a companion or mate.
she handles well under power
fits in a "normal" width slip
haul by a regular travel lift

We added the usual liveaboard stuff, and a mattress pad. Ipod amplifier.we added a fly screen to the main "door" as the slider was getting way too much of a work out. We added a step stool for some docks to get on and off easier, often we docked bow in, to have more privacy. We added reflector insulation to the sun side windows and used it all the time. AC only on the really hot or humid days.

All the best,


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## PalmettoSailor

kd3pc said:


> we did for a few months...not the boat to take to the caribbean unless you are really careful with the weather.
> 
> I did not like:
> the "RV" fridge..propane/12v/110v....it scared me the entire time. Were it my boat, it would come out and a marine or else just 110v go in.
> access to the mechanical drive leg is a chore, and kind of rube goldberg
> using the daggerboards required work that took me away from the helm
> access to places that somehow collect water is tough. Were it my boat, I would cut some access holes or find where the water is coming from...I think this is addressed in the newer 105MC
> tough to keep the weight off, while liveaboard
> 
> I did like
> the master cabin and berth
> the tilt up of the dinette seat, and the foot ledge below the seat. My wife LOVED it, as she has short legs and could sit there for a long time and still be comfortable.
> stable, fast and easy to sail
> cockpit is very "captain" friendly and still has room for a companion or mate.
> she handles well under power
> fits in a "normal" width slip
> haul by a regular travel lift
> 
> We added the usual liveaboard stuff, and a mattress pad. Ipod amplifier.we added a fly screen to the main "door" as the slider was getting way too much of a work out. We added a step stool for some docks to get on and off easier, often we docked bow in, to have more privacy. We added reflector insulation to the sun side windows and used it all the time. AC only on the really hot or humid days.
> 
> All the best,


Hey kd3pc,

Since no good deed goes unpunished I wonder if you could elaborate on a few of the points you raised.

Why did the Gemini require more careful consideration of the weather than other boats? What weather issues are the boats short comings?

Do all the Gemini's have propane refrigeration and what makes it more of a risk than a propane stove?

I really can't get excited about the looks of any Catamaran, but their advantages for the way I envision using a boat (Chesapeake Bay and perhaps ICW to points south) are hard to ignore so owning a Gemini is a thought that crosses my mind from time to time.


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## Cal28

GCASKEW said:


> What do you like? What have you added, would you recommend adding it? What don't you like about living on a 105MC?
> 
> Just an overall appraisal of living on one would be appreciated. It looks like we are leaning that way to retire and take to the Caribbean.
> 
> Thanks


Only in my dreams ... and love every bit of it ...


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## GCASKEW

Trying to take it from a dream to a reality.. Getting the kids to understand us selling THEIR house of memories is the hardest part so far...lol


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## kd3pc

PalmettoSailor said:


> Hey kd3pc,
> 
> Since no good deed goes unpunished I wonder if you could elaborate on a few of the points you raised.
> 
> Why did the Gemini require more careful consideration of the weather than other boats? What weather issues are the boats short comings?
> 
> Do all the Gemini's have propane refrigeration and what makes it more of a risk than a propane stove?
> 
> I really can't get excited about the looks of any Catamaran, but their advantages for the way I envision using a boat (Chesapeake Bay and perhaps ICW to points south) are hard to ignore so owning a Gemini is a thought that crosses my mind from time to time.


the gemini is a perfect ICW boat and for the bay...

as to the weather, some attachment points were not as strong as I would like, as well as a lot of glass work. She does not sail on all points of sail as my MUCH heavier Hunter or the previous Sabre, or as close to the wind. You have to leave the helm to douse sails, especially the jib/genoa/screecher...again that can be solved but at a higher price. She sails flat and has more bridgedeck slap and motion the more weather you get. Then there was the water intrusion into the amas (again some boats have it, some don't) not sure where or how the water gets in, but it was enough for one or two boats to become bow heavy and pitch or pitchpole. Over canvased? Perhaps. The Gemini we sat did not have as much weight added due to liveaboad as some others we traveled with.

Understand that we came from 15 years of CNG, and the gemini fridge was an RV model, open flame on the back when in Propane mode...not for me. I am not sure what the years were that had this, our boat was a show model and may have been a one off. I was told at the Annapolis Boat show a few years back that several 105Mc had the RV gear..

Were I in the market for a 105Mc, I would for sure chase down these concerns. There is an active users group on Yahoo and used to be "Gemini Gems", the catamaran company also has some very sharp guys experienced with the 105Mc.

It was, not sure about now with Hunter, a decent made boat as long as you understand the price point it was designed and built to, and were willing to accept the "warranty" as it were...we looked at new, delivered in Annapolis...and could not get more than a single year warranty on the hull, every other piece of gear (even the UK sourced stuff) I would have had to go to the actual manufacturer....buying used solves that... Hull issues would have to come back to Annapolis no matter where you were in the world.

Hope this helps


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## miatapaul

PalmettoSailor said:


> Hey kd3pc,
> 
> Since no good deed goes unpunished I wonder if you could elaborate on a few of the points you raised.
> 
> Why did the Gemini require more careful consideration of the weather than other boats? What weather issues are the boats short comings?
> 
> Do all the Gemini's have propane refrigeration and what makes it more of a risk than a propane stove?
> 
> I really can't get excited about the looks of any Catamaran, but their advantages for the way I envision using a boat (Chesapeake Bay and perhaps ICW to points south) are hard to ignore so owning a Gemini is a thought that crosses my mind from time to time.


The Gemini's are plenty sturdy for anything you are planning on doing. The biggest issue as far as weather window is that they pound into waves due to the bridge deck height, likely true of any Catmaran. As far as I know it is not so much a safety issue as a comfort issue. They will beat you up pretty bad if hit rough water. Though I imagine if you bang around on the waves too much you might do damage, but they have done crossings no problem.

Issue with the propane refrigeration is that it runs even when not attended where the stove does not. You turn off the propane (at least with the solenoid, but should be done at the valve also) when not cooking, but the fridge stays on all the time.

They seem to be really nice boats and go like stink and you don't even need cup holders! But I like lead under me, so I will go slower, and be more comfortable, but will roll a bit more at anchor.


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## TQA

The Gemini would be good for the Chesapeake the ICW and the Bahamas. 

However getting out to the Eastern Caribbean will be VERY hard work in one when the short steep seas of the notorious 'Caribbean Two Step' are running. Small heavy catamarans do not do well out here. 

IMHO if you can not afford a 40ft + cat then a monohull is better. 

But if you can grit your teeth and once out to the Eastern Caribbean pick your weather windows carefully then it will do.

BTW where would YOU sit in the cockpit at anchor in one. You do not want to be inside in the greenhouse in the sun.


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## PalmettoSailor

Thanks for the first hand feedback. I'm not really in a place to be thinking about changing boats at this point and for whatever reason I'm defintely more drawn to monohulls so when we are ready to upgrade, I'm guessing it won't be a Gemini despite its overall suitablity how I'm likely to use it. I expect a Gemini would pound pretty severely in the "Chesapeake chop". There isn't a lot of bridge clearance.


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## GCASKEW

In my case I think I can stand the chop for the times when it happens, when we are underway. We are looking to sail to location, spend a month or two there and then sail to the next location. We will be on the hook for 95% of our time and want something that is comfortable to live in while at anchor. 

As far as the heat, we are going to install an AC as well as a Watermaker. Part of buying in Gemini is buying a used one and add all the creature comforts, such as AC, watermaker and still have enough kitty to pay for gas to run the ginny to power it if needed.


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## TQA

GCASKEW said:


> In my case I think I can stand the chop for the times when it happens, when we are underway. We are looking to sail to location, spend a month or two there and then sail to the next location. We will be on the hook for 95% of our time and want something that is comfortable to live in while at anchor.
> 
> .


When you say 'stand the chop' maybe I was not clear. It is not just a case of pounding it is the lack of progress under sail. There will be days when you are fairly close to the wind if not hard on the wind and will be doing well to make 3 knots. Your leeway will be considerable.

If you are prepared to motor sail then things will not be so bad.

However like you say the Gemini will do well at anchor.


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## mdi

Gemini Owners Group Gemini_Cats : Gemini Catamarans


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## Cal28

keep coming back to see what's been posted ... as this is one boat I really would love to ultimately settle into ...


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## mdi

Cal28 said:


> keep coming back to see what's been posted ... as this is one boat I really would love to ultimately settle into ...


I have belonged to the Gemini Group for years. I have found them to be honest and straight forward about the boats capabilities; reality based. The design of the hulls and various features have undergone changes since its inception just as you would find with any sailboat who's popularity has maintained its production; I believe more Gemini's have been built and sold than any other multihull. The designer and his son sailed the 105MC to Europe. Prior to the 105MC model the designer specifically stated the boat was not meant for open blue water sailing such as for RTW. There are 105MC's circumnavigating worldwide.

Regarding motorsailing and multihulls, this seems pretty consistent with limitations that monohulls find themselves in. Simply go to any monohull blog of cruisers and read how they got from point A to point B and ultimately you will read how they motored at various times due to the needs of the conditions or limitations of the boats ability to sail. To say you would not have a boat you needed to motorsail on at anytime would mean you wanted a powerboat, at least to me, unless you were willing to wait for the conditions needed to sail, which for one reason or another people seem to just as soon motorsail to get going to their destination.

Cal28 I think you would find that if you moved to a Gemini, most any model, you would increase your living area and comfort but I think if you tried to move more gear (weight of payload) onboard, from what you are carrying now on you boat you would hamper the Gemini's sea-keeping abilities. So in a nutshell you can go larger in a multihull but you cannot go heavier in payload without careful planning. This is the whole principal as to why monohulls were used early on to carry cargo, they have a higher payload for the waterline length.

A multihull I like as much as some early Gemini's is the Catalac 9M. With modification, removal, of the non structural port side forward partition, the forward stateroom rivals the Gemini. The boats have been all over the world and they have the option of twin diesels for those days you need to motorsail. You can compare the Catalac's and Gemini's here for free Multihull Dynamics, Inc. - Home You'll find there is not a lot of difference between the 9M and the Gemini 3000.


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## TropicCat

mdi said:


> I have belonged to the Gemini Group for years. .... You'll find there is not a lot of difference between the 9M and the Gemini 3000.


The Catalac has solid fiberglass hulls built double thick, the Gemini a thin cored hull.

Catalacs have a rigid keel.... Geminis use dagger boards.

The Catalac can be found with twin diesel engines (as you pointed out) the old Gemini has an outboard engine.

Catalacs are all over the world ... Gemini ... not so much.

Big differences between the boats. This is sort of like comparing a Land Rover to a Hyundai.


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## chucklesR

TropicCat said:


> The Catalac has solid fiberglass hulls built double thick, the Gemini a thin cored hull.
> 
> Catalacs have a rigid keel.... Geminis use dagger boards.
> 
> The Catalac can be found with twin diesel engines (as you pointed out) the old Gemini has an outboard engine.
> 
> Catalacs are all over the world ... Gemini ... not so much.
> 
> Big differences between the boats. This is sort of like comparing a Land Rover to a Hyundai.


Actually, factually incorrect, and somewhat biased as well. 
Even then a modern Hyundai is a better ride than a 1960's designed and built Land Rover in my opinion, and the Catalac is certainly not a Land Rover.

There is no coring in the gemini hull - it's 3/8 thick fiberglass and that's it. 
They use plywood pads under the mast step, cleats, etc.., other than that it's a air gap/inner liner, tabs and such - and that's all. 
If the Catalac has a solid deck I'd hate to see the weight issues.

All 105MC's are diesel, WB30b's, with a drive leg (plenty of issues there).

Gemini's use centerboards, not dagger boards - there is both a structural and function difference. Either is better for performance than a fixed mini-keel.

Gemini's are indeed all over the world, including on their own hulls.

- former owner Hull # 987 - five years of ownership since new.

We just switched back to a center cockpit mono, primarily for financial reasons. Gemini's will do you fine in the Carib.


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## TropicCat

chucklesR said:


> Actually, factually incorrect, and somewhat biased as well.


Of course it's biased !!! With very good reason 

And the comparison was not to a 105 Chuck. It was to a Gemini 3000. Have you ever seen one?

Did I ever tell you the story of the Gemini 3200 that was delivered sans any glass in the forward port hull? That boat is sitting 100 feet from me right now, still has her original owner who tells a fascinating story of when he confronted Tony Smith. Smith fixed the boat.... no charge.


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## chucklesR

I have seen and been aboard every model of Gemini. 

The OP asked about 105mc's rather specifically, not the old models. Those models were designed rather like your Catalac as your quoted piece from mdi said.

I do see your point though


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## GCASKEW

Headed to Miami in a few weeks to look at the Gemini and the Tomcat catamarans. The new lagoons are just out of our reach. 
We want to retire with no debt and house and boat paid for, I'd love the new lagoon but I don't want a loan so I can get one.

Any other new cat's that anyone knows of that are in the low 200k's that I am missing.

We are also going to look at new monohulls, but I really want a cat for the living at anchor.


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## mdi

chucklesR said:


> I have seen and been aboard every model of Gemini.
> 
> The OP asked about 105mc's rather specifically, not the old models. Those models were designed rather like your Catalac as your quoted piece from mdi said.
> 
> I do see your point though


I think I am the one who mucked this up a bit, I brought up the Gemini 3000 because the specifications and the performance and stability data are very similar for that boat and the Catalac 9M. So when I was saying there isn't much difference I was not clear in my meaning.


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## TropicCat

mdi said:


> I think I am the one who mucked this up a bit, I brought up the Gemini 3000 because the specifications and the performance and stability data are very similar for that boat and the Catalac 9M. So when I was saying there isn't much difference I was not clear in my meaning.


I don't think so. The Gemini is lightly built and is faster than the Catalac. The Catalac is heavier... think built like a battleship. They age more gracefully because of the heavier glass layups.

Geminis have center boards, Catalac have a fixed keel. No Catalac has ever flipped over under any circumstances. Their hulls are designed to slip sideways in a gust, where as the Geminis have been known to dig in and trip on their boards.

These are very different boats that share a common layout. Don't let the common layout mislead you as to the characteristics of either boat. The Gemini is fast and fun to sail, the Catalac was designed to sail in the North Sea.


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## chucklesR

Yes, three (as far as I know) Gemini's have flipped, all three by charter folks (read no experience).

Still - they can.


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## gershel

The PDQs are probably the next step up from the Gemini, but its a very big step up in quality & design, and probably price.
Marc


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## odysea

GCASKEW said:


> What do you like? What have you added, would you recommend adding it? What don't you like about living on a 105MC?
> 
> Just an overall appraisal of living on one would be appreciated. It looks like we are leaning that way to retire and take to the Caribbean.
> 
> Thanks


I'm looking at a gemini34 to use as a liveaboard in the Sanjuan islands WA want to convert her to solar electric drive


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