# Is it me, or does evry skipper yell?



## DrB (Mar 29, 2007)

I have crewed on lot's of boats aside form my own; three different racing ones. Each skipper accepts "green" crew and even folks that haven't raced or even sailed alot. 

I tell them I have sailing experience, which I do, and that I would be happy to help in any way I can. If I am given a job, I do to the best of my ability as fast as I can. Problem arises when I don't do it a) either well enough or b) fast enough. The skippers start yelling and if it doesn't go quick enough for them, yell louder and faster.

I was on one boat where I was was mast and sewer. My job was to hoist the spinny and take the spinny into the hole when it came down. On the first set, I couldn't get the damn thing up fast enough for the skipper, so he's yelling louder and with more trucker language. Turns out that my gloves are slipping on his new, very slippery, thin halyard. Didn't matter, I wasn't doing it fast enough. Next set I took my gloves off, a little better, but unknown to me the spinny was coming up twisted. This guy (skipper) is telling me to hoist faster, the bowman is yelling at me to stop hoisting, what a communication mess. I was fed up and we had only been racing for 30 minutes in the first of two races. We mutually parted, each not liking the other.

Over the weekend I was on another boat, the skipper was pretty cool for the most part, and actually had me at the helm for the start of the second race and the first upwind leg. We were in very light air and his boat handles way different than mine as far as helm sensitivity. After 10 minutes of telling me head off, head up, head off, no so much, too much, your not paying attention to your telltales, etc. I finally said it would be best if he took over. He had the more greener sailor setting the pole and jibbing the spinnaker, but he sure didn't make it sound like this guy was doing anything right. Afterwards he said I (we) did very well for the first time on that type of boat and was tickled that he found crew that actually had sailing experience. Where was the positive feedback during the race?

These skippers have to accept that fact that they aren't Pro Sailors and mostly racing beer can races. Since they're getting free, and mostly novice crew, they should expect nothing except folks that are interested in sailing, learning, and having fun. Bonus if the person has racing experience. 

I have my own boat and I never yell at my crew. If something goes wrong, we deal with it, but I never yell at anyone. I don't race on my own boat, but if I did, no yelling.

Hell, if I want a half day of being yelled at, I go to work. The goal of sailing is peace and quiet and to have fun.

Rant over.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Crew on different boats until you find a captain who isn't an arrogant idiot.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

That's a fair comment..

Some skippers have pretty large egos and/or are so used to holding it all in whilst getting yelled at at work that the chance to go out for a race and yell at the wind, other boats, the crew... helps them unload.

As a kid sailing in 2-up Sabots, I'll never forget once race when, on the final leg to the finish line, my crew jumped overboard and swam ashore. I still won the race - but was it worth it?? No. It never happened again, but I'm sure everyone here has been on racing yachts where the skipper was the slowest part of the boat.

Unfortunately, leadership ability and coaching skills are not something that everyone inherits at birth. My advice? Pick another boat - maybe the one that was in front of him on the last race!


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## PBzeer (Nov 11, 2002)

I only yell at myself or inanimate objects, not other people. Well, maybe in my mind I yell at them, but not out loud


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

And yet he's singlehanding the boat.... 


PBzeer said:


> I only yell at myself or inanimate objects, not other people. Well, maybe in my mind I yell at them, but not out loud


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

These are the same "A" types at Soccer ( or any sport for that matter ) Hollering at the refs for making calls, hollering at there own kids and other kids, and interfering with even the coach doing his job...calling plays from the side lines..

They are also hollering in a McDonald's line if their order takes more then 47 seconds..Know wonder they are always looking for crew... 

Some times ligament stern encouragement to speed someone up is needed if its a safty issue for the boat or others involved...but this should be explained ahead of time so a person dosent take it personal....I sometimes find yellers are making up for their own lack of self confidance in their own skills some of the time...and others are just plain good and arnt happy not having equal qualified crew aboard and yell out of frustration.
As the old saying goes you can please some of the people some of the times but not all the people all of the time..Nothing wrong with walking away like you did.

I have to learn to bite my tong more often and its a personal problum for me too...I could not be a coach of any sport..I dont have the patients to instruct through the clumsy learning stages...I would want to coach a team who dosent need a coach...Im one of thoes terrible "A" personalities as far as that goes too I afraid..

I have mellowed out considerably with age and can now laugh more at things that would have burned me.. I value people more then I use too is the reason.


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## Freesail99 (Feb 13, 2006)

Growing up in a Italian American household, yelling was a way of life. So I will answer now, as I always have "who's yelling"?


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

I've raced on a lot of boats over the last 30 years. The best boats - most wins, most fun, most stable crews - had skippers who didn't yell. It isn't about volume, it's about the emotional content and tone of voice.

If there is yelling on the boat (and it may not come from the skipper) I don't go back.

sail fast, dave


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Now you know why those skippers need crew!

Life's too short.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I only yell when the crew does not immediately respond to the captains' orders! (She thinks that as Admiral she outranks me!)


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I've tried that...and she did outrank me... so volume didn't really matter. 


camaraderie said:


> I only yell when the crew does not immediately respond to the captains' orders! (She thinks that as Admiral she outranks me!)


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> I've tried that...and she did outrank me... so volume didn't really matter.


Musta been a bloody loud "WOOF"!!  

...sorry, SD - couldn't resist.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

well, both she and I would agree with you....but she also said that to her, my bark was much worse than my bite....but she also said that wasn't usually the case for anyone else.


Hartley18 said:


> Musta been a bloody loud "WOOF"!!
> 
> ...sorry, SD - couldn't resist.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

I just started crewing this season, I will say yes, there is a lot of yelling going on, but in my case its all forgotten as soon as we cross the finish line. Skipper will yell at times simply to encourage your performance. Other times he yells because we are in or are approaching and emergency situation and he yells to get your attention. Sometimes he yells and the crew will all chuckle a bit at him, he knows it, its all good. After the race, he is always there with a hand shake and a "Good Job." 

Its all part of the game. If your going to be participating in any team activity; softball, basketball, hockey, baseball,...... you have to leave your ego at the door and expect to take some criticism........ and coaches yell.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

TJK-

I don't mind loud encouragement, and I understand that there are times were you need to speak up to be heard, but by yelling, I am referring to a mindset more than just the physical act of being loud.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

sailingdog said:


> TJK-
> 
> I don't mind loud encouragement, and I understand that there are times were you need to speak up to be heard, but by yelling, I am referring to a mindset more than just the physical act of being loud.


Understood.
I have a great skipper who yells to encourage.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Those are the good ones, and usually have full crews, and are far and few between. 


sailortjk1 said:


> Understood.
> I have a great skipper who yells to encourage.


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## DrB (Mar 29, 2007)

*Yelling versus Loud Orders*

I am okay with loud orders. If the skipper "yells" hoist and I start hoisting, there is no need to keep yelling "HOIST!!!" twenty times or "Get the F*'n Chute Up". If I am doing my job, I am trying to do it to the best of my ability.

Instructions before the act during the calm are more useful than barking orders during the moment. A easy way to do this is the skipper saying okay we are coming up to the mark in about 2 minutes. At the mark we are going to set/douse the X sail. Julie your job is to do this when I say X, Steve your job is to do Y when Julie starts to do X. Bob is responsible for getting this done, etc. Since most folks on the boat may have not sailed with the skipper before or on this type of boat before, things are always different. The skipper should never assume that everybody instinctively knows what to do at each leg. Sometimes I trim the jib, sometimes I trim the main, some times I'm mast, etc. A little "pre-event" refresher goes a long way. If the crew has a question, they should ask for clarification.

Also, crap happens during the moment. Lines get tangled, people slip/get knocked around, sails come up wrong, etc. Instead of the skipper keep yelling "Get the X down/up/in", understand that there is a problem and start directing to fix the situation or assign a person in charge of the crew to deal with it before hand. Yelling louder, faster, or with trucker language doesn't help the situation.

DrB


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## labatt (Jul 31, 2006)

I crewed on many boats when I was in high school, from Etchells to Shields to International One Designs, to PHRF boats like C&C 35's and J's. On the one designs and the harder core PHRF boats, the boats were bought only to race, and the skippers usually pushed their crews hard. There was a big difference, though, between the skippers that yelled and the skippers that got personal. Very few got personal, but almost all yelled to push their crews a little harder. It went along with what we were doing. My wife and I sometimes have some fun with our son (and he knows it) when we're tacking... "Grind! Grind! Grind! Get over that winch! Put your back into it! Get that sail in! What are you waiting for - the sun to set or something??? Get that sail in! Grind! Grind! Grind!" He's usually laughing so hard by the time he's done that he just falls down. We always wonder what the boats around us think when they hear us yelling like that


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

I always tell people who have never crewed for me before that I never insult crew. If I ever yell, it'll only be because there's an emergency, and I need everyone to hear me. I never insult crew, or yell at them because of a mistake. They want to help you win, and they feel terrible if they make a mistake. Nothing good happens if you yell at them and insult them. In fact, they get more nervous and confused, and are likely to make another mistake. If a foul-up happens, I tell them to "take your time and get it straightened out." Then I keep my mouth shut and let them work on the problem, unless I have a suggestion to offer that will be helpful. If they get excited and try to rush things, instead of solving the problem, it'll take them longer to sort things out, and they'll get nervous and drop my $130. winch handle over the side. Problems get solved faster if people aren't excited, upset and confused. I agree with the comment that the yellers are usually weak or unskilled skippers.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

well said... 


Sailormon6 said:


> I always tell people who have never crewed for me before that I never insult crew. If I ever yell, it'll only be because there's an emergency, and I need everyone to hear me. I never insult crew, or yell at them because of a mistake. They want to help you win, and they feel terrible if they make a mistake. Nothing good happens if you yell at them and insult them. In fact, they get more nervous and confused, and are likely to make another mistake. If a foul-up happens, I tell them to "take your time and get it straightened out." Then I keep my mouth shut and let them work on the problem, unless I have a suggestion to offer that will be helpful. If they get excited and try to rush things, instead of solving the problem, it'll take them longer to sort things out, and they'll get nervous and drop my $130. winch handle over the side. Problems get solved faster if people aren't excited, upset and confused. I agree with the comment that the yellers are usually weak or unskilled skippers.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

I've been lucky enough not to be on boats with yelling skippers. Speaking loud and yelling are two separate things, and it sucks you had to deal with a yeller.



DrB said:


> The goal of sailing is peace and quiet and to have fun.


That being said, racing is not for people who want peace and quiet on a boat. Its a ton of work and a lot is going on in the boat and around it. The goal of racing, is to win. Why bother with all the PHRF ratings, folding props, racing sails, lightweight blocks and lines, if your goal is to just float around where the wind blows? I still have fun if I lose, but I have more fun if we win. Its the competition that's exciting.

YouTube - Ronnie Johns - Chopper - Harden the **** Up
The video is in jest, I just thought it was funny.


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## sanctuarysam (Sep 16, 2006)

*Scream, then Scream Some More*

If that doesn't work, try throwing stuff...
We raced this past weekend in the Leukemia Cup. The crew consisted of my spouse, fresh from ASA 101,102 & exactly zero race experience, "J", sailing, but also zero race experience, "T" plenty of sailing and some race experience, and me, a 'few years' of sailing and racing experience. We all screwed the pooch at some point. I didn't feel the need to point out screw-ups. We all knew what they were, but, we learned from our mistakes & nobody's ego got bruised (ok, mine took a beating, but that's a different story). We had fun,a new group of expressions were born, we all learned something and hopefully everyone will want to crew again next race.
I am fiercely competitive, but until I sail the perfect race, I am in no position to scream at my crew.
Now.."Hike Bitches"


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

There is also a difference between yelling to accent anger, and yelling in terms of excitement. We always have fun on my boat - and I do purposely do it loudly (and I think some could consider it yelling) - but it gets everyone's attention on my boat and when rounding a mark tight in with a handful of other boats its handy for the skipper abreast to know the intentions of the boat. 

But, I do agree with not yelling to correct someone unless its a safety issue, and even then it should be enough to get their attention - and tell them what you need them to do. In most of those cases - I either turn over the helm and do it with them, or wait afterwards to discuss it.

Although yelling for a beer to be brought up - perfectly acceptable...


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## badsanta (Oct 16, 2006)

They only yell at me once. I asked one guy how long he had been divorced, he said how did I know? Remember if they treat an almost stranger like that the wife and kids get it ten times worse.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Volumn of voice above that needed to hear and understand isn't really needed to get something done as quickly and efficiently as possible provided clear concise instructions have been relayed.
yeah yeah, we all know that...
The Admiral has taught me well, tho I occasionally have side trips into unwarranted sarcasm . There is a reason my boat is named Patience.

Some aholes just want to yell because they think they can, some see negative encourage methods as their right because they are the skipper. I've never crewed a boat with a type A yeller, if I did I would give one warning to shut up and talk treat me with respect or I become an uncooperative passenger. On the second occurence I would go forward and sit on the bow or just plain become a rock in the middle of it all. I'm pretty good at ignoring folks for hours.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

zz4gta said:


> ... racing is not for people who want peace and quiet on a boat. Its a ton of work ...


Well said! - This is why many of us choose not to race.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

*NOT ALL OF US YELL!!!!!!!!!!*


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## mikehoyt (Nov 27, 2000)

A race is a race.

The one single most annoying trait of a person that is part of a team is a person not paying attention to the team's task and distracting others from their tasks. If you are not into racing don't go on a boat with those who are.

OTOH if you are interested in racing and love the excitement, adreneline and fun than try each time to do your best and learn and any decent skipper will love to have you as crew. The crew you train is often the crew that stays.

Most of the insults on our boat are directed at the skipper and are good natured. Occasionally the skipper gets excited (overrides, problems, things not getting done) and gets loud. The crew usually gets loud right back. After the race all are on the same track and usually after the incident it is immediately smoothed out.

So long as everyone is truly trying their best to make the boat perform and no one is slacking it all evens out. 

The best skippers I have crewed with simply start cursing when things go wrong. That way they get out their frustration but do not direct it at one individual. the cursing is not usually loud and is usually heard most often when crew is slacking.

Try your best, learn and remember that your job is to help the team make the boat go. At some time you will probably be the skipper on some boat and then you can truly decide who yells and who is simply frustrated.

A good test is teaching your kid to drive teh day they get your beginners license. if you can survive that you can survive anything ....

Mike


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

It is desirable to develop a rapport with the crew where commands are given in a certain unmistakable tone and requests/advise are given in a more conversational tone.

In a professional setting a command may given right amidst an otherwise normal conversation and it will be executed accordingly. But since we're for the most part not in such a situation unless sailing with an experienced crew it is often necessary to speak a bit more emphatically. Let's face it; husbands and wives have the greatest difficulty in doing this. The conflicts and difficulties arise from everything from, "you mean now?", "you don't have to yell!", "you're not in charge", to "I know, I know, I know".

The only way to deal with this, that I've found, is to discuss beforehand, or later after passions have cooled, the nature of what evolution is being conducted. Most of these conflicts arise from a lack of understanding of what is important and what is unimportant. Many novices are perplexed by how we go from a relaxed, shooting the breeze, atmosphere to a "move your fat ass" atmosphere. Explaining the serious parts of each evolution in detail and particularly what is the critical moment or the critical event that has to happen on time and correctly is the key to developing an understanding between skipper and crew. Just as no one would hold it against you for yelling, "Move!" if they were about to be hit by a car or a falling tree limb, no one will hold it against you for declaring loudly the action that must be undertaken to achieve the crucial goal-provided they understand the necessity of it. Even if they don't understand in a particular circumstance, the teamwork developed in other incidents may well be sufficient to elicit the proper response without acrimony. But, it's not for nothing that husband and wives struggle more than friends with this. Everything is personal between spouses. Time and patience are required. If either spouse lacks either, all efforts at teamwork may be futile.

One tip that is helpful in resolving conflicts is to take all the blame upon one's self. Because, after all, it's true that it's the skipper's fault whatever it was. The skipper is responsible for everything, so his explanantion after an incident should only speak to his error be it directly his or his failure to properly train or properly explain what was expected. If this conversation takes place in a genuine explanation of his error, by explaining what he really wanted to happen that didn't, accompanied by what he thought or felt and not what the crew member did, it is an uncommon person who will not be able to accept this and move on to a future smoother operation. Pride and dignity are hindrances in such times.


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Wednesday Night Beer Can....... I'm on my way to getting yelled at.
Should be fun. Im looking forward to it.


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## Classic30 (Aug 29, 2007)

sailaway21 said:


> ....
> One tip that is helpful in resolving conflicts is to take all the blame upon one's self. Because, after all, it's true that it's the skipper's fault whatever it was. The skipper is responsible for everything, so his explanantion after an incident should only speak to his error be it directly his or his failure to properly train or properly explain what was expected. If this conversation takes place in a genuine explanation of his error, by explaining what he really wanted to happen that didn't, accompanied by what he thought or felt and not what the crew member did, it is an uncommon person who will not be able to accept this and move on to a future smoother operation. Pride and dignity are hindrances in such times.


Sway, I have to disagree with you there. 

Depending upon the nature of the skipper's relationship with the crew, an inward focus by the skipper is more likely to:
a) Cause the crew to think less of him for not being able to give credit where it's due or to apportion (apparent) blame properly either.
b) Cause him to explode later on when "you did the same bloody thing happened last race!!"

If the skipper has failed to outline his expectations at the start, that's his mistake, but failing to explain something that a crew member did wrong is something entirely different.

Pride and dignity are essential to winning races..


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

I've spent a lot of time at sea on Navy ships. The Navy (for the most part) builds someone up in public and dresses them down in private. They also plan, plan, plan. The same goes for any boat, whether racing or cruising. We tend to talk maneuvers out in advance and then do an after action review if they don't work out so well. I've been on and heard yelling skippers. They are often the autocratic types that have generally poor communication skills. Hartley is right.

When I was a kid, I witnessed a large (40'+) offshore sportfisher backing into her slip. The male captain's wife/girlfriend/companion was at the helm and he was instructing her by yelling at the top of his lungs. The sound carried across the marina. After a few minutes of this, the wife/girlfriend/companion simply walked off the flybridge while the boat was in reverse. It was entertaining to watch the jerk scramble.

I learned a lesson that day - that the best crews talk through maneuvers in advance and exchange only the minimum of words (because they aren't as needed) in a civil tone. I'm glad that I learned this life-lesson while still in my teens.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

I holler at my deadbeat crew whenever I'm out solo sailing.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Racing tends to attract type A personalities. And if a captain is laid back or rational--the odds are he's got a regular crew and isn't looking for newbies all the time, the way the Type A's that churn crew are. And having a pick-up crew that isn't smoothly trained and meshed as a team, again increases the odds of yelling because things aren't going smoothly. And a lot of the serious racing captains have major investments of time and money in their boats (and wives who are taking them to task over it) so again, their stress level is up.

So it is kind of a catch-22, and the odds are you are going to have to look around to find someone who doesn't yell. There are often different clubs or associations where the racing is taken a bit less seriously and competitively, where you'll find the folks who are out for fun--instead of blood and victory.

There's a lot less yelling in cruising.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

John-

You really need to flog your deadbeat crew when you're out solo sailing. Keel hauling should be the next step. 


JohnRPollard said:


> I holler at my deadbeat crew whenever I'm out solo sailing.


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## kai34 (Jul 16, 2008)

My skipper is very competitive and will occasionally yell, but will always tell you what you did wrong and how to improve (calmly). So when the next time you do that some thing but right this time he'll tell you that you did a good job.
-kai


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## tenuki (Feb 11, 2007)

I crewed on a boat where the captain yelled in anger the entire time. Once. And we came in dead last so I felt he got what he deserved. Life is to short and I sail for fun.

I'm more prone to laugh at crew gaffs, which I suppose could be worse depending on the personalities involved.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Put on a blank look, put in a Bluetooth earmic, and keep tapping on it and shouting "What? What? Does anyone have any hearing aid batteries? I can't hear you, my hearing aid needs new batteries! What? What?"

(Yes, there are hearing aids being sold that are "disguised" as earbuds these days.)

Lessons learned in Big Black Dog School: If something wakes you up, you're required to play with it. And, to write your own rules of play.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

*Yell Ow*

I only yell when the conditions are too loud for someone to hear my talking voice. I think yelling is what one does when normal civilized comunication is beyond ones grasp. We have to remember that to be a captain of a boat you dont have to rise through the ranks, or get elected, you mearly have to buy a boat, threfore, allot of people who arent very refined at leading a crew find themselves at a loss at how to accomplish comunications like a true leader would. These poor guys are also likley to kick inanimate objects, or yell at the children after a bad day at work too. Its a shame that every cruising manual repeats instructions on tying obscure knots, but not a single one I've seen has a chapter on enlightened leadership, or how to lead with respect rather than fear. Sometimes the crew has to elect a new captain even if it means jumping ship and finding a new boat.


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## ne57301 (Mar 7, 2000)

*Yes. All Skippers Yell*

All skippers yell. If you're a skipper and you say you don't yell you're either a liar or you haven't been tested yet.

The difference is what it takes to get the skipper yelling and what is perceived by the crew as yelling.

I've been on boats where yelling to get the chute up faster was the equivalent of cheering on a teammate but someone with thinner skin might see it as accusatory.

As skipper I have been told that I can be VERY loud, but I use this tool to be heard, either over the noise of wind or luffing sails or to communicate with other boats. If I'm yelling at crew it's and it's not because of background noise then there is something drastically wrong. Yelling all the time becomes like the boy crying wolf, when something really justifyies yelling, it doesn't raise the intensity appropriately.


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