# If the J/24 is so awful...



## DannyboyUpstate (Aug 27, 2012)

If these boats are so terrible, as so many people suggest. What boat replaces it? There are a lot of things about the J/24 that are attractive to me, but everyone is quick to point out it's design flaws. What are the newer boat designs that are better? What about one-design fleets?

Thanks for the discussion guys!


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## WDS123 (Apr 2, 2011)

Santana 20 - cheap used boats vibrant class s20.org
Harbor 20 - expensive also vibrant class harbor20.org 

Modern lifting keel boats - new boats still being made with a Healthy used market, both have good class organizations: 

Ultimate 20 
Viper640

Old style dinghies with vibrant class organizations 

Lightning
Thistle
Lido 14
Snipe


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Moore 24 would be another to add to your list.

If you want modern style 24' 1design fleet, Melges 24, laser S2b - this has not taken off as it did in Europe........You can actually buy quite a few 24' boats of this genre frankly over their! Melges also has a 20' boat IIRC. 

Kind of depends upon the what you are really looking for in a boat, as far as speed, comfort etc.

Marty


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Don't think the J24 is particularly awful, it's an older design. Plenty of them still racing round the cans, we do fine with one.
Martin 244? That's a potentially quick boat if you can figure out how to sail it fast.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

good little boat and it is small for the number of crew it takes to run one. they always seem to be crowded. still a popular class. they are racing the nationals in New york this week and there are 104 boats entered. not many other keel boat classes of the older boats get those kind of numbers, many of the new classes do not even have that many boats built.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

DannyboyUpstate said:


> If these boats are so terrible, as so many people suggest. What boat replaces it? There are a lot of things about the J/24 that are attractive to me, but everyone is quick to point out it's design flaws. What are the newer boat designs that are better? What about one-design fleets?
> 
> Thanks for the discussion guys!


I thought the j24s design flaws were simply addressed by keeping the hatch boards in, and the cockpit lockers latched?


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## DannyboyUpstate (Aug 27, 2012)

MarkSF said:


> I thought the j24s design flaws were simply addressed by keeping the hatch boards in, and the cockpit lockers latched?


I read that too, but people also complain of the ergonomics of the boat, and the outdated design.

I suppose I'd be interested in a "faster" type boat, that would still have some type of cabin, just for overnighting once and awhile and room to store equipment.


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## MarkSF (Feb 21, 2011)

overbored said:


> good little boat and it is small for the number of crew it takes to run one. they always seem to be crowded. still a popular class. they are racing the nationals in New york this week and there are 104 boats entered. not many other keel boat classes of the older boats get those kind of numbers, many of the new classes do not even have that many boats built.


They only build 30-odd Bristol 31.1s. Hard to get 104 entries!


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

A boat like a Sonar is a good example of J24 alternative. Comparable performance but comfortable for a group of adults or a family. The only reason to value the J24 is to race in a J24 one design fleet. Otherwise there's much better allaround boats like Sonars, Col26, newer Js....

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Convert the J24 into an IC24 and you're good to go!!

I've sailed the J24 and personally have no problem with it as a day sailer. Certainly, as a single class racer, everyone has the same limitations. If you want to cruise, its not really what it was designed to do.


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## sailingfool (Apr 17, 2000)

DannyboyUpstate said:


> I....
> I suppose I'd be interested in a "faster" type boat, that would still have some type of cabin, just for overnighting once and awhile and room to store equipment.


What the J24 really needs is a few flat spots to sit, instead you get a choice of sitting on: a winch a block, a track or a combination of these.


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## Irunbird (Aug 10, 2008)

The J24 really isn't all that bad. I think you'd have to have owned one or crewed on one enough to really be able to tell. All boats have their issues. The J24 phase of most people's sailing careers boils down to one-design racing (with 5000+ boats built over the years, there will always be a decent sized fleet somewhere), wet (especially for your crew, unless you only sail in moderate weather), bumpy (all J24 crews get a little bruised moving about the boat), but a ton of fun for less money than just about any other design out there. You have to know that going in. It can be a cruiser, but there are better choices out there that are a LOT more comfortable for everybody... like an Olson 30, for instance!


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

PaulinVictoria said:


> Martin 244? That's a potentially quick boat if you can figure out how to sail it fast.


For simple sailing speed and rewarding performance the earlier Martin 242 will be a better bet. Lots less money too, with a plenty of used models available.

Finding one in NY state might be a challenge, though.

A Wavelength 24 is another good option.


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## SHNOOL (Jun 7, 2007)

The J/24 is a fast fun, cheap boat, nothing wrong with it if you follow some basic boat prep. It's not comfortable really for any long sailing, but then you are racing right?

If you want alternatives there are tons, but the J/24 class is large, and the boat design is still valid, and translates well to some newer boats (until you start talking asyms)...

The Melges, viper, and U20s are all valid alternatives, as are some others, but you'd be lucky to get into an active fleet or for nearly as cheaply.

Sadly it's not always about what's the best boat, but what's mostly sailed by your local fleet. If you have all these fleets as active by you, then you lucky you, you have a choice.

We're all PHRF by us, but if you had to chose a One Design to race with, probably the S2 7.9 would be first choice, with the lightning and the J/24 being another choice. Only the Lightning is sailing true OD on our lake.

So go with what is being sailed, and that you like.


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## zz4gta (Aug 15, 2007)

Only reason to buy a J24 is to race OD. That's it. 

The Merit 25 is a better boat and extremely similar to the J. No lee helm in light air, inboard rudder, bigger foretriangle (bigger jib and chute) and rates slower in PHRF.  
Also, they don't have that tendancy to sink when you wipe out. 

Lots of other options as well, but it's hard to beat their OD fleets. There's almost 100 boats racing at WORLDS in NY this week. East coast champs they had over 50, North americans probably had 70+. But don't think you're going to be competitive with average sails and the wife n' kids on board. ECC had the top 10 boats full of pro sailors. The talent in that fleet is impressive.


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## PeterSailer (Mar 20, 2010)

There is also the older Gomen Express 20, there isn't much of them out there...So if your looking for OD racing probably not the best option.

I sailed on 1 a few time and they are quite fast and fun.


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## MarkCK (Jan 4, 2009)

DannyboyUpstate said:


> I read that too, but people also complain of the ergonomics of the boat, and the outdated design.
> 
> I suppose I'd be interested in a "faster" type boat, that would still have some type of cabin, just for overnighting once and awhile and room to store equipment.


I understand your dilemma. I think that is why the new breed of daysailors have come about. You want good sailing performance, a comfortable cockpit and some basic accommodations down below. Unfortunately even on the used market most of these boats are still new enough to be very pricey. I sail a Santana 20 because it is very performance orientated even though it is just a daysailor for me. The cockpit isn't very comfortable and cabin is really just a big storage locker. I keep telling myself I am going to overnight in it at some point but I haven't, primarily due to the fact is is cramped and generally un-user friendly.


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## rgscpat (Aug 1, 2010)

This summer I spent four nights on a Santana 20 and survived to tell the tale. Once I was inserted in the capsule for the night, I was reluctant to extricate myself until morning.


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## caberg (Jul 26, 2012)

I crewed on a J24 for a summer's worth of Thursday night races averaging around 10 J24s each race. We had a blast on that boat in all different types of wind, with as little as 2 of us or as many as 7. But, that's about all the boat is good for, IMO. It's not a boat I would own, because racing isn't at the top of my list.


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## dugout (Nov 3, 2007)

The J24 was a great one design, around the buoys. The J22 seems even more popular in the same roll.
I have never heard the J24 described as "Awful"?
There are "_different horse for different courses_."


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## peterchech (Sep 2, 2011)

j-24's have major issues with core saturation etc, all avoidable stuff but a royal pita once it starts. And that whole sinking issue when you broach badly is a serious problem. A friend of mine nearly sunk his when they wiped out and water was coming in throught the companionway, definitely a design issue. And there is no way you can race with the hatch boards in IMHO. Older J boats generally have a reputation for poor build quality, at least in my club. J/105's are referred to as "dump trucks" speed wise, but the OD racing is often what people get j boats for and it's hard to beat j/boats for that.

That said, a j/24 is fast compared to comparably sized older cruising boats (phrf around here is I think 171, my hunter 25 phrfs 234). It can be picked up pretty cheaply (though you REALLY gotta look for core penetration and other well known issues with the boats), and there is so much info out there about j/24's regarding trim, rigging set up, and problem areas with the design. Not to mention used sails/parts are readily available...

Personally I like the j/22 more, though space wise it's also a very small boat...


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