# Mainsail Replacement Quotes and 3 Choices



## Mills (Apr 12, 2015)

Precision 300 Series Designer Dacron
Sail Price:	$925.06
Description: Best for keeled boats looking for a quality designed sail but on a budget. 
1. Challenge Sail Cloth High Modulus Dacron 
2. Bainbridge International Ocean Series Dacron

Precision 400 Series Advanced Dacron
Sail Price:	$1,304.36
Description: This is an all around performance cloth good for a very wide range of usage including inshore, offshore and club racing.
1. Challenge Sail Cloth High Modulus Dacron
2. Contender Sail Cloth Supercruise
3. Contender Sail Cloth Charter

Precision 500 Series Elite Dacron
Sail Price:	$1,473.73
Description: This is for the cruiser or racers looking for the most durable and shape holding Dacron sails and are willing to spend a little extra money for the best Dacron sails on the market! 
1. Premium Challenge Dacron comes in both High (Fiber 104 with Honeywell 1W70) and Low (Marblehead) aspect versions depending on your rig.
2. Contender with Polypreg finish. Contenders Polypreg finish is a unique durable melamine based impregnation. This finish combined with the tightest weaves has created a sail cloth that offers low stretch, excellent bias stability, good recovery and outstanding durability.

I just received this quote from precision sails on a new mainsail. It's my first time purchasing a sail on my 1973 Dufour Arpege 30. I've just completed a few sailing courses ASA 101, 103, 104, and then delivered my boat from South Padre Island TX to Kemah Texas. (off shore). (thats the extent of my sailing experience) I tore the decades old sail en route and need advice on which sail to go with. 

I only understand the basics of sail trim so getting the last 20% of speed by fine tuning performance sails is not my goal. I want a sail that will last and is forgiving as I learn. I plan to cruise the bay but don't want to be afraid to go back off shore and sail 140mi to Port Aransas if I choose. My research suggests, and correct me please, that high modulus dacron, tight woven, may be the best for longevity. I know they don't hold shape as long but you don't have to worry about delamination and resins breaking down ?!?! I may do a local race but just for fun and don't plan to edge out performance racers....but the same stressors may be present as I push her a little. That would account for less than 5% of my sailing activities. 

Well I ramble...I'm thinking of getting the middle "400" series option and add the "off shore" upgrades where you get 
Leech Seam Wedgies
Double Ply Corners
Double Tapes on Luff, Leech and Foot
Wider Seams and Additional Stiching Rows

Thoughts?


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Go the cheapest.

I have now cruised some 35,000 nms and one would think the higest price sails are the ones going to stand up to those sort of miles. Oh, no! Not at all! It appears that the cheapest Dacron white floppy things are the best for folks bumming around the bay or long distance frugal cruisers.

You, like me, are not rushing around the deck calling the sails 'airfoils' and staining for the extra half knot. Our friends on the boat are friends, not tacticians, foredeck hands, grinders and rail meat. We don't hold a Protest Flag, and time 5 minute guns nor care about Rule 32B. We hold a beer and hope the sun keeps shining.

Apart from that $1,000 for a 30 foot boat's mainsail is bloody expensive! Let alone the $1,300 or $1,500 jobbies.

Your $1,000 sail should last you 10 years if you don't let the sun on it, and the sail shape will not be much different at the end of that time if you reef in good time.

Mark


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## Mills (Apr 12, 2015)

Thanks for your advice Mark. I would like for it to work out that the cheapest works for my situation. The headsail is the original from 1973 and carried me at speeds up to 5-6 knts the rest of the way home after the main ripped. Well I say it is the original. All i know for sure is that the Dufour logo is emblazoned on it so it leads me to believe its the original. Either way its old and took me the remaining 200nm home with no problem. That gives me faith in today's sails, even the cheaper ones. It's still a reputable name brand in this case being challenge high modulus.


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## Mills (Apr 12, 2015)

One more comment...you mentioned that 1000.00 is expensive for the mainsail of this size...is it??? I don't know and only think its the "cheaper" option because Im comparing it to the options they gave me. Should I be shopping around? there are local sailmakers here in houston/kemah but idk if they have the same quality. Maybe even better? Precision Sails was just a quick convenient quote.


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## jblumhorst (Apr 14, 2002)

Mills said:


> Precision 300 Series Designer Dacron
> Sail Price:	$925.06
> Description: Best for keeled boats looking for a quality designed sail but on a budget.
> 1. Challenge Sail Cloth High Modulus Dacron
> ...


(Full disclaimer: I am an independent rep for Hyde Sails Direct and I support Sailnet by advertising on this site.)

Sail cloth is the biggest contributor to the price of the sail. If I were you, I would insist that they tell me _in writing_ exactly which cloth from which manufacturer they are going to use.

I note from your post that they are quoting High Modulus 6.5 for your mainsail and Marblehead 7. There is no such thing as Challenge High Modulus 6.5 or Challenge Marblehead 7.

Both of those terms are registered trade marks of Challenge.

Based upon Challenge's instructions to sailmakers, the appropriate high modulus cloth for your Arpege mainsail would be a Challenge 7.3 High Modulus High Aspect cloth (Aspect ratio greater than 2.5). An appropriate Marblehead would be Challenge Marblehead 6.77 (aspect ratio less than 2.9).

Now, it might be reasonable to go down one click in weight for very light wind use or up one click for offshore use,....

but they've got it backwards: Challenge Marblehead is the most tightly woven dacron available, and uses less resin to achieve the same resistance to stretch, so you can use a lighter weight than Challenge High Modulus.

As a sailmaker, I am seriously confused by the cloths they talk about in your quote.

I don't understand why is there a $400 difference between the Series 300 Designer Dacron and the Series 400 Advanced Dacron if they're both made of Challenge High Modulus 6.5 (there's no such cloth, so it's impossible to verify their claim.)

And, I don't understand what "Contender with Polypreg finish" is, that the quote mentions in the Series 500 Advanced Dacron quote for $1474. That's not a specific cloth. All of Contender's cruising cloths are finished with PolyPreg (TM) resin, from the lowest priced to the most expensive.

(Full disclaimer: I am an independent rep for Hyde Sails Direct in the USA and I support Sailnet by advertising on this site.)


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

Mills said:


> One more comment...you mentioned that 1000.00 is expensive for the mainsail of this size...is it??? .


I meant $1,000 is a lot of money for anything!  its a big investment.


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## Mills (Apr 12, 2015)

Thanks for the info! I'm narrowing it down now and wanted to post Hydesailsdirect quotes from their website which seem inline with other figures i've received. (I can't link since i'm new here with less than 10 posts ) hydesailsdirect is the website and you can click the Dufour 30 Arpege to compare. 

I like the graph that helps point less familiar folks like myself in the right direction regarding durability vs performance vs shape. Looks like the hi mod is still what I'm leaning towards though I plan to investigate "Hi Mass" dacron a little further for comparison. 

Anyone with a 30ft'er, hope my research helps you with a ballpark figure of what a new mainsail (basic material) will cost. I'm sticking around the 1k dollar range personally.


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## DonScribner (Jan 9, 2011)

We're just finishing up our mainsail from a kit that we bought at Sailrite.com. Four long weekends and about $600 and you're sailing on a computer designed and cut sail made out of the same dacron and parts that the pros would use.


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## Mills (Apr 12, 2015)

Cool Don, thanks! I'm looking there now.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

I have to agree that the quotes in the first post are confusing, especially about the sail cloths used. A basic mainsail for your boat should be about $1000. Maybe a bit less from the lower cost online lofts and more from a local loft that comes to the boat to measure. You need to consider the options - number of reefs, number of full battens, etc. as that can add a couple of hundred dollars. Make sure you are comparing similar sails with the same options. I have bought mainsails twice online- once from North Direct and recently from JSI - and happy both times. You do have to comfortable with doing your own measurements if you go the online route. Other online choices are FX Sails and National Sail Supply. A friend bought a mainsail from FX and it looks like a decent sail and there are a number of posters here who have good things to say about National Sail.


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## RichH (Jul 10, 2000)

I would agree with Mark: go cheapest (but with some minor additions).

You indicate that youre just starting your lifetime journey in sailing; so, buying a high performance sail at this time would possibly be like buying a 'hot' automobile after one gets his/her driving 'first license'. If youre not to the level of being able to 'shape' (I dont mean trim) your sails, a high performance sail that is cut and constructed to an experienced and precise helmsman ability would certainly in most cases be overkill for the learning process.

For the time being I would suggest a 'forgiving' sail - one that doesnt require the helmsman to be constantly 'on', a sail that doesnt have to be constantly tweaked, and the helmsman constantly making very small and precise incremental adjustments in the rudder. Your sailing expertise will improve over time, and when you do realize that potential, then would be the time for 'top of the line' sails - even for 'cruising'.

Id go with the cheaper as your first 'new' sails. Challenge and Bainbridge woven dacron are quite good and fairly stable materials and will withstand 'mistakes and mishandling' quite well.

Since _all_ sails 'deform and change shape from use' especially woven dacron, Id recommend to add the following small 'options' by which to vastly extend the service life of any woven and bolt-roped luff dacron mainsail:
• An easily adjustable luff 'boltrope': the OEM boltrope which is cut about 10-12" _longer _than the design spec. and the extra length end simply 'whipped' to the top of the headboard, all ready to go when the sail later needs 'adjustment'. Boltropes change their length over time and are the principal / 95% cause of 'baggy' - 'blown out' dacron sails. 
If that OEM boltrope is longer and the extra length 'stored', all a sailmaker has to do to 95% correct that shape later on is to cut the 'binding' that holds the boltrope in place, slip the boltrope back to its design length and resew the binding .... about a 1/2 hour job that will restore the sail back to '95% good' shape.
Without that little bit of 'extra' and already 'stored' boltrope already in place, such an adjustment would require that possibly the boltrope would have to be entirely replaced, etc. - can be expensive. 
• You will want to know and record the exact design (as-built or 'actual') luff length of the 'new' sail ....*AND* the amount by which that boltrope was cut 'shorter' in the original design - called 'boltrope preload' by a sailmaker. If you have such info the sailmaker wont have to 'guess' when re-adjusting the boltrope. 
Avoid a 'taped luff' dacron mainsail used for 'cruising' - these are NOT 'adjustable' when the 'tape' finally permanently stretches - expensive to replace.

*Extra* - boltroped Dacron sails NEED to be additionally stretched-out along their luff *when 'raising'* for them to take their 'as-designed' shape. Raising a boltroped dacron sail to 'just up' and not additionally stretching out that boltrope will 99% of the time ALWAYS result in a 'god-awful' sail shape - draft aft, leech pointing towards windward (hooked-up). --- 'cranky' boat, aggressive heeling, SLOW boat, difficulty or poor 'pointing', additional 'weather helm'. 
For a NEW sail, you MUST ask how much 'extra stretch' should be added to the HALYARD (mainsail luff) in order to stretch out that boltrope (called boltrope preload). Get that number/length and REMEMBER it (or put 'marks' on your halyard and mast to help you 'remember'. When this luff 'stretch-out' later on becomes difficult to obtain (boltropes _always_ shrink over time), you will KNOW that its time to have that boltrope 'adjusted'. .... or you can buy another new sail.

All the above will save you the expense of prematurely replacing your NEW dacron mainsail. 
Caution: sail lofts do NOT like to apply 'adjustable' boltropes, as they naturally like to sell more 'new' sails. *Insist* on this option on any new woven dacron sails. ;-)

*Alternative*: 
Here's how to evaluate your *old* mainsail to see if you 
1. '*really* need' a new sail, 
2. are you properly raising the 'boltroped' sails you have, OR 
3. does your dacron mainsail simply need a boltrope adjustment to get it back into nearly prime as-designed *SHAPE*
4. Correcting/evaluating so-called 'weather helm' via mainsail halyard tension: 
How to properly RAISE a woven dacron mainsail - SailboatOwners.com see post #1

Hope this helps.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

One other thing to look at is going with a loose footed main. You will also need to configure a better working clew out haul, but doing so is going to give you much more control over sail shape down the road than you will have with a fixed footed sail. 
Having a sail blow out on your first voyage is a real PITA and sort of colors your sailing mood anytime the wind pipes up. For sailing in Corpus Christi Bay, I upped the weight of my sails just a notch and adopted the adage, "reef often and reef early", hoping to get a longer useful life and dissolve the worry of blowing out a seam. I some times regret that choice, especially for the jib when the wind gets down around 5 knots, but that is a fairly rare event here. The solution, however is easy - more sails.
Happy sails,
John


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## jblumhorst (Apr 14, 2002)

ccriders said:


> One other thing to look at is going with a loose footed main. You will also need to configure a better working clew out haul, but doing so is going to give you much more control over sail shape down the road than you will have with a fixed footed sail.
> Having a sail blow out on your first voyage is a real PITA and sort of colors your sailing mood anytime the wind pipes up. For sailing in Corpus Christi Bay, I upped the weight of my sails just a notch and adopted the adage, "reef often and reef early", hoping to get a longer useful life and dissolve the worry of blowing out a seam. I some times regret that choice, especially for the jib when the wind gets down around 5 knots, but that is a fairly rare event here. The solution, however is easy - more sails.
> Happy sails,
> John


John,

+1 about the advantages of a loose footed sail! Footed sails are pretty much a throw back to the days of low-tech sailcloth. IMO, There are no compelling reasons for them other than to comply with class rules when racing an old one-design boat.

changing topics to your comment about downwind sailing with a small jib:

If you want to go fast and have fun sailing downind in light air, and you don't want to work hard, you might want to consider a cruising spinnaker.

(BTW, every sailmaker has a different term for the same thing: cruising asymm, cruising chute, UK flasher, gennaker, Doyle APC,asymmetrical power cruiser)

A modern cruising spinnaker is perfect for when the apparent wind is behind the beam (90 degrees). That's at least 50% of the time for cruisers. Cruising chutes have very large areas, but if you use them only in light airs, they are docile and easy to handle. They can add several knots to your boat speed below a beam reach.

And they add sailing fun. With a cruising chute, it's far less tempting to turn on the engine to get to a downwind destination when the wind drops down to a whisper. A cruising chute that's optimized for deep angles will be about twice as big as a big genoa, so it's got plenty of power for sailing downwind.

You can use a cruising chute from about 95 degrees apparent wind angle (in light wind) to 150 degrees apparent wind angle in moderate wind. Since the apparent wind moves foward when you get the boat up to speed, the true angle can be as deep as 165 degrees.

If you are wiling to constantly trim the cruising chute like a racer, you can usually sail 10 degrees deeper, but the limit for "set and forget" cruising with a cruising chute is usually around 150 degrees apparent.

A symmetric spinnaker can sail deeper than an asymm, but it's much more work and requires more crew and gear.

The ultimate convenience is to put a cruising chute on a top down furler. With a furler, it's as easy to launch and douse a cruising spinnaker as it is to use a furling genoa. The procedure is different, but it is just as easy. One person with an autopilot or tiller tamer can handle the cruising genoa in light wind, which is exactly when you need it the most.

The "trick" to setting or dousing a cruising chute on a top-down furler is to do it while sailing deep downwind, with the spinnaker in the wind shadow behind the mainsail. Then steer the boat up to fill the sail, and ease the sheet big time as the kite fills. It's actually very easy.

Final disclaimer: The generalizations I've made in this post apply to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the sailplan of the boat in question.

Everything depends upon the designed sail plan, the existing sail inventory, and the expected sailing conditions and goals. A masthead rig is different from a fractional rig. An IOR-era boat is different from a modern one, etc.

So, when you talk to other people to get their opinions about cruising chutes, make sure the headsail size and mainsail size proportions are similar to your boats'. it's important to realize that different types of rigs need different solutions. Cruising chutes are especially valuable on fractional rigs or boats with smaller headsails on furlers.


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## jrd22 (Nov 14, 2000)

Give Dirk at National Sail in FL. a call. Excellent sails, great advice and service, and the prices are very reasonable. I've bought two RF headsails from them and wouldn't consider anywhere else based on the quality, regardless of price.


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