# Replacing the hose between the propeller shaft stuffing box and shaft log tube



## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Does anyone have any DIY experience with replacing the hose between the propeller shaft stuffing box and the shaft log tube?

Boat is 34 years old and access is through the cockpit lockers. 

1. Is this a DIY project? Any good resources? Will all bolts likely be frozen? Will I be able to do this with an ordinary socket set and wrenches?

2. How much would this likely cost at a yard in the Potomac River area of the Bay?

The surveyor mentioned the possibility in the worse case that the shaft may have to be sawed off with a sawzall if I cannot unfreeze the bolts on the coupling.


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## Traveling Light (Dec 2, 2002)

*Stuffing Box Hose Replacement*

I am in the process of doing this now. I approached the job by reading whatever I could find on the web and a few books I have. Most articles suggested it would be a very difficult task due to age (1982 Peasrson 28-1). I also obtained an estimate of $1100. I used penetrating oil on the various parts and let them set for a week. I went to the yard yesterday and everything went perfect. The two set screws have been removed from the transmission coupling (trans in neutral - I don't know if this matters) and the prop shaft is 80% (about 1.5 ") out of the transmission. I added more penetrating oil and will return in about a week to pull it all the way out. The stuffing box hose has been removed and bronze device (coupler?) that holds the packing came apart quite easily.

My advice would be to clear everything out of the area you are going to work in and lay in a couple of cushions to prop yourself on. Also, make sure you have good lighting and ventillation and have your phone in a spot you can reach if someone calls you.

I do not have the project complete yet but I felt pretty good with what I accomplished and now know more about the boat than I did before whoich is always a plus.


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## msmith10 (Feb 28, 2009)

Surveyor is right. The hardest part of the job is pulling the prop shaft (getting the prop shaft coupling off the shaft). You may be able to force the shaft out of the coupling by removing the bolts holding the prop shaft coupler to the output flange on the transmission output shaft, sliding the shaft away from the tranny, then putting a socket (or some similar-shaped object) against the end of the prop shaft, replacing the bolts, then tightening them, thereby forcing the prop shaft out of the coupling. You have to be careful not to bend either the prop shaft coupling or output coupling. As drastic as it sounds, it is sometimes easiest to cut the prop shaft.
After the prop shaft coupling is removed, the rest is easy. Pull the shaft, replace the shaft log rubber tube, replace stuffing box, replace prop shaft, attach coupling, align prop shaft. This is a good time to replace cutlass bearing if it needs it, and to repack stuffing box.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

You might want to price a replacement shaft and coupling to see how that stacks up against labor time and options for unsticking it. Bearing in mind that you are working in a confined space...sometimes a dedicated penetrant like Kroil or PBlaster will drop things apart. They attack the chemical bonds, they're not just lubricants like WD40.

And when all else fails, a slurry of dry ice in alcohol, or a CO2 extinguisher, can be used to freeze-cycle parts and make them come apart without the risks of a torch. Used judicisouly, a torch has purposes too. But there are alternatives to just whapping it with a hammer, and sometimes penetrant and a properly improvised shaft puller is all it will need. Sometimes, it is easier to take a Sawzall and simply be done with it.


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

Be sure to use a purpose made hose for this. Some think a conventional hose is appropriate for this use but it is not. The price is not enough to make a cheap alternative a good idea. replacing the cutlas bearing is also a good idea as is checking the shaft for true.

After it is all back together and in the water for at least a week, check the alignment.

HOSE FOR PACKING BOX 1 1/2"I.D. FOR 3/4" SHAFT 103999


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## Cptken (Apr 23, 2008)

As has been said the coupler to shaft connection is the hardest part. If possible remove the coupler set screws and fill the holes with PB Blaster. Let sit for several hours, refill and tap the coupler/shaft z couple times with a hammer. Not hard, the vibrations help the PB do it's thing. If you have room, slide the shaft back and use a puller to get the coupler off the shaft. If no room use a socket, quarters, a large nut, what ever fits and try MS's method (it worked for me). Be very careful not to use too much force, the coupling flanges will bend. If it doesn't start to move, leave slight pressure on it and apply more PB and wait for a while.


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

The worse case is having to cut the shaft and drop the rudder to change the shaft 

wheel steering and a quadrant you have to stand on your head to reach is bonus points for extra hard 

Its somewhat unlikely that IF you get the coupling off it will still spin true after X years of rusting in place when you put it back on


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## Tim R. (Mar 23, 2003)

James, the shaft on a P28-1 is offset so it will clear the rudder once the prop is removed.

And dropping the rudder on this boat is very easy if you have to.

Also, if the boat has the A4, it will be a good time to repack the grease cup on the raw water pump and change the impeller.


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## Tynesider (Jun 7, 2011)

Had the same problem with a flexable coupling on a 1" dia shaft and getting the coupling off the shaft, tried hitting it, pullers, heating it, no chance.

Then told an old trick, undo all the coupling bolts enough to put a 'large socket' (bigger i/d than the shaft) between the two coupling flange faces, re tighten all the coupling bolts, you then push the couplings apart no problem !

The flange on the end of the shaft usuallly has a key to locate it, so don't lose it in the bilge!

Also check most flanges have a grub screw, pin or bolt locking it, so make sure you have undone them before starting.

As Tim said the stern tube rubber seal is not ordinary rubber piping, it is special thicker walled especially for the job.

Good luck it's fun!!!


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Traveling Light said:


> I am in the process of doing this now. I approached the job by reading whatever I could find on the web and a few books I have. Most articles suggested it would be a very difficult task due to age (1982 Peasrson 28-1). I also obtained an estimate of $1100. I used penetrating oil on the various parts and let them set for a week. I went to the yard yesterday and everything went perfect. The two set screws have been removed from the transmission coupling (trans in neutral - I don't know if this matters) and the prop shaft is 80% (about 1.5 ") out of the transmission. I added more penetrating oil and will return in about a week to pull it all the way out. The stuffing box hose has been removed and bronze device (coupler?) that holds the packing came apart quite easily.


Boy did you get lucky!  and that "bronze device (coupler?) that holds the packing" - that would BE the stuffing box.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

msmith10 said:


> As drastic as it sounds, it is sometimes easiest to cut the prop shaft.


Couplings are usually a lot cheaper than shafts so if you have to cut something, I'd recommend cutting the coupling. Use a cutoff wheel in a small angle grinder and cut it lengthwise. When you get near the shaft, be extremely careful - you don't want to cut a slot in the shaft. After cutting a slot through the coupling, just wedge it open enough to slip off the shaft



msmith10 said:


> After the prop shaft coupling is removed, the rest is easy. Pull the shaft, replace the shaft log rubber tube, replace stuffing box, replace prop shaft, attach coupling, align prop shaft. This is a good time to replace cutlass bearing if it needs it, and to repack stuffing box.


Don't forget to check the alignment after a couple of days in the water - boats can change shape on the hard and very precise alignment is needed on a shaft coupling - four or five thou is very normal.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

tommays said:


> The worse case is having to cut the shaft and drop the rudder to change the shaft
> 
> wheel steering and a quadrant you have to stand on your head to reach is bonus points for extra hard
> 
> Its somewhat unlikely that IF you get the coupling off it will still spin true after X years of rusting in place when you put it back on


Add a V-Drive for maximum points.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

*Started the repair...*

I decided to replace the packing box, cutlass bearing and propeller.

Yesterday, I removed the propeller shaft bolts from the coupling, but could not release the shaft from the coupling. There is not enough room currently to replace the packing in the stuffing box, so I intend to replace not only the hose, but the entire packing box assembly.

All parts are severly corroded. [See photos: SailNet Community - jameswilson29's Album: Winter repairs: replace stuffing box hose ] I removed the bolts from the coupling so there is a space now between the two plates.

The transmission plate is a thick rubber pad. Should I replace this with a metal plate to gain more room for the stuffing box?

I assume this reduces vibration. Does it also eliminate the need to align the coupling?


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

The "rubber" plate may be a shear plate, designed to shear if you get the shaft wrapped or jammed, instead of passing the shock on to the engine. Arguably a good idea. It wouldn't eliminate the need to align the coupling but might allow the alignment to be a little less critically done.

The ones I've seen are more of a hard plastic or elastomer than plain rubber.


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## BarryL (Aug 21, 2003)

*drive saver*



jameswilson29 said:


> The transmission plate is a thick rubber pad. Should I replace this with a metal plate to gain more room for the stuffing box?
> 
> I assume this reduces vibration. Does it also eliminate the need to align the coupling?


What you have is indeed a drivesaver:
http://www.globecomposite.com/pages/products_drivesaver

I have one on my boat (came with it) and it seems like a good idea to me, so I kept it I replaced my stuffing box and hose.

good luck,
Barry

Barry


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

Tynesider said:


> Had the same problem with a flexable coupling on a 1" dia shaft and getting the coupling off the shaft, tried hitting it, pullers, heating it, no chance.
> 
> Then told an old trick, undo all the coupling bolts enough to put a 'large socket' (bigger i/d than the shaft) between the two coupling flange faces, re tighten all the coupling bolts, you then push the couplings apart no problem !
> !


that sounds like a good trick but wouldn't the socket need to be smaller than the shaft[id of the coupling] also the engine side coupling might be the one that gives first


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

I have done this job three times between my 2 Sabres. It's relatively easy and takes about 4-5 hours to do the complete job of replacing the shaft, coupling, and installing a new shaft seal. I've posted the procedure on Sailnet; see the following link for tips and PM me if you have questions.

The coupler and shaft are a mated pair. They are machined together, so if you cut the coupling, do the job right and get a shaft made (and vice versa).

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/42473-do-i-need-new-shaft.html

Mainesail has awesome How-To tutorials. Applicable to this thread are:

Replacing A Cutlass Bearing Photo Gallery by Compass Marine at pbase.com
PSS Shaft Seal Installation Photo Gallery by Compass Marine at pbase.com [this is a priceless tip for separating the coupling from the shaft]


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

*What is the shaft made of?*

You should try to determine what material your shaft is made of. We found that our 43 year old shaft was made of bronze and was badly worn at the Cutless bearing - so not worth the trouble trying to get it out in one piece. A Sawzall with a metal blade made light work of cutting the shaft for removal.
Apparently, back in the day boat builders used bronze shafts in many boats as it was cheaper then stainless. Today, a stainless shaft will be cheaper and easier to find then one in bronze.
I thought our drive train area was cramped but yours looks worse. You are not alone in tackling this job over the winter. What fun, eh?


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

Sabreman said:


> The coupler and shaft are a mated pair. They are machined together, so if you cut the coupling, do the job right and get a shaft made (and vice versa).
> 
> ]


thats a good point,if you replace just the coupling take the shaft to a machine shop and get the face of the new coupling trued up also the shaft may be bent or pitted at the snuffing box or cutlass bearing


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

*Stainless steel 7/8" propeller shaft*

The propeller shaft appears to be stainless steel, 7/8" diameter. I would prefer to retain it, if possible, along with the coupling, instead of paying another $300 + $80 in parts. The propeller shaft seems to be in good shape so far.


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

lol who started that thread "are sailors cheap" if the shafts not bent[warped] or pitted that idea of putting a socket[smaller than the coupling id between the couplings and gradually tighning the bolts /longer ones/ just might work while tapping/whaming/beating the hell out of it with a small/big/big ass hamer and maybe some torch heat,or cutting off the old coupling,put on a new one then check the runout with a indicator on the mating face while turning the shaft


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

OK. So your shaft is stainless and may not be 34 years old and you'd like to save it. 
You are going to have to try to press the shaft out of the coupling then. I'd suggest getting a steering wheel puller kit from an auto parts store (see pic below). Having the 'puller' tool can save you from having to compress something between your output flange and shaft flange, if you can make enough space to insert it once the couplers are apart. This will be a much bigger PITA to do in the boat. The problem with the 'press out' method is that you can ruin both the output coupler and shaft coupler in the process.
Another fun part of this job (if you're going whole hog) is removing the old Cutless bearing. We tried pressing it out with a threaded rod and fittings but no go. Sawzall to the rescue again (2nd pic).


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

jameswilson29 said:


> The propeller shaft appears to be stainless steel, 7/8" diameter. I would prefer to retain it, if possible, along with the coupling, instead of paying another $300 + $80 in parts. The propeller shaft seems to be in good shape so far.


James,

If the shaft comes out in good shape you can have it checked for true and re-use it. Couplings are most often NOT reusable and it can be unsafe to do so. A proper fit is a light press fit. Once you break the rust free the coupling usually just slides on, this = bad... A new coupling is about $65.00 and fitting and facing about another $65.00-$70.00 and well worth the expense.

DO NOT ruin or bend your transmission output flange trying to remove your coupling. They can be very easy to bend or snap. If you ruin your gear box you'll be wondering why you did not just cut the shaft out when the $$$$$$$$ is adding up..

I would recommend a fitted & faced "split coupling" when you put it back together.. Buck Algonquin sells them..


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

What MaineSail posted/said!
There are a bunch of parts you can set out of true in the drive train using the press method for separating the pieces. 
I priced a new SS shaft for my boat (just over 3') at around $200. New coupling (recommended) and a new output flange plus any possible transmission damage would cost quite a bit more to fix then a new shaft. I'm seriously considering getting a new coupling with a new shaft.

Hey MaineSail,
Do you have any comment on using a shaft coupling with a split hub? Like the one pictured over at Moyer's website? (Sorry, you have to scroll down to "Direct drive prop shaft coupling, with split hub (1 inch)" Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Engine Rebuilding and Parts )
I also have a lightly used 'drive saver' I was thinking of using with the new shaft and coupling. Something like this: 504 Drivesaver™ Drivetrain Protection
Any comment on using these components in my rebuild?
My set up is a direct drive transmission from an Atomic 4 engine in an ancient Tartan 27 if that matters. 
This is all fairly new territory for me so I am looking for the voice of experience.
Thanks.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

CalebD said:


> What MaineSail posted/said!
> There are a bunch of parts you can set out of true in the drive train using the press method for separating the pieces.
> I priced a new SS shaft for my boat (just over 3') at around $200. New coupling (recommended) and a new output flange plus any possible transmission damage would cost quite a bit more to fix then a new shaft. I'm seriously considering getting a new coupling with a new shaft.
> 
> ...


I usually use split couplings. Just finished installing one today on a Sabre 34. Buck Algonquin has a "shorty" version that can also give a little more room for boats with no space for re-packing.

Don't let the split coupling marketing fool you. They still need to be both fitted and faced to the shaft by a COMPETENT shop. The photo below shows it shimmed parallel for fitting to the shaft.Becuase they are split the shimming parallel takes more time than doing a solid coupling. Some hack shops won't take this step or don't even consider it but for a proper fit it is best to be done correctly.









This is the BA shorty split coupling:









After facing:









I am not a big fan of Drivesavers because I often see them cause more issues than they solve. If installed correctly they can work but they are rarely installed correctly, or to ABYC standards, which requires a jumper to keep ships ground intact.


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

As usual, mainsail is the voice of reason and correct procedure.

On our current boat, I replaced everything aft of the transmission. I only needed to replace the cutlass bearing but the shaft was original bronze and scored, and the stuffing box leaked. I had just bought a $75,000 boat; saving a couple hundred $ seemed pointless. So I replaced everything (shaft, coupling, shaft seal, cutlass bearing) and am reaping the benefits 6 years later. This is not a job where it's even remotely advisable to attempt to save a few dollars.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

Thanks for all the responses.

O.K. - I won't be cheap about it - I ordered the Buck Algonquin split shorty coupler and shaft removal tool. I hope the propeller shaft is in good shape.

How and where would I find a competent shop to fit and face the coupler to the propeller shaft?

The boat is in a small marina on the Northern Neck of Virginia and I live near Richmond, Va., which has a small industrial base.

Is this something an ordinary machine shop can do, or does it have to be a "marine" machine shop?


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

Add Content


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

i would think any machine shop that has a lathe and knows how to use a indicator even a automotive btw if you press the coupling onto the shaft first you will need to move the engine and slide the shaft from the inside


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Maine, all this sticking the shaft in the coupling, lathing everything, not just "bolting it up"...is this akin to "blueprinting" an engine instead of just building it? Is this really necessary every time a shaft is popped off?

Or is it more for the folks who simply prefer ironed shirts to permanent press?


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

That is why a split coupling makes sense - the engine doesn't have to be moved.


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## jameswilson29 (Aug 15, 2009)

So after the split coupling is fitted and faced to the shaft, it can be split and re-attached without more fitting and facing?


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## sawingknots (Feb 24, 2005)

i would think so,just use a .002 feeler gage between the couplings while you realign the engine


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

hellosailor said:


> Maine, all this sticking the shaft in the coupling, lathing everything, not just "bolting it up"...is this akin to "blueprinting" an engine instead of just building it? Is this really necessary every time a shaft is popped off?
> 
> Or is it more for the folks who simply prefer ironed shirts to permanent press?


If you remove an old straight coupling and try to re-use with a poor fit, as in not a light press fit, you will:

A) Eventually ruin the shaft because the set screw and ss key are not intended to take ALL the load. Often times the key will also fit sloppy due to the layer of rust broken free and this will result in hard loading the key from forward to reverse. A loose coupling can actually shear a shaft.










B) Potentially lose the shaft

I have seen both of the above scenarios happen when old couplings are re-used. When Buck or Walters or others ship a straight or split coupling they are normally undersized for the standard shaft sizes so they generally need to be fitted or you likely won't be able to get them on. If you don't want to face it that is not as critical if you don't mind vibrations. In lots of shaft jobs I have had one coupling, that when installed onto the shaft, did not need to be faced. Your shafting shop should always be willing to check it BEFORE facing. This is about a $10.00 job if facing is nor required. I have seen new shaft / couplings off by as much as 0.012" and that is more than enough to cause some pretty bad vibrations.

Considering the time and expense involved in doing this job and the potential safety issues the fitting and facing is a small portion.

The Sabre 34 I just finished was a ONE HANDED job due to piss poor access. Took about double the time it normally takes while working like an amputee. Things you take for granted as a 2 minutes job, like tightening hose clamps, but only blind & one handed when they just want to spin around the shaft log hose add up for the owners to the point that they become costly jobs. I don't think the owner would have been happy to do it over again if we had issues because I cut a corner and chose not to check the face or tried to re-use an old coupling.

I'm lucky in that I have a very reputable prop shop who will not ship out a shaft and coupling without doing it right. There are many shops, especially on-line who think nothing of taking your money and selling you junk.

I had one customer who insisted on buying his own shaft from an on-line source. No problem, right..? It was $137.00 cheaper than my shop excluding shipping so that's justifiable, if we're comparing apples to apples.. When I saw it there were no signs of it being faced, it was way off, and the coupling literally dropped over the shaft. The set screws were not spotted into the shaft as is required under ABYC P-06 and the keys on both ends were terribly sloppy and it came without prop nuts. Also the key at the flange end was brass and it should be SS.

All that wrong in just one on-line prop shaft adventure.

I had to decline to install it noting the potential safety issues. I sent the customer to my shop and they were horrified at the sloppy workmanship so much so that they installed a new coupling, spotted the shaft, fitted and faced it and supplied new keys all for $80.00 including the new coupling. they're good guys. Customer was still ahead but then had to buy some prop nuts and the shaft grade was still unknown. At the price he paid I am nearly certain it was not AQ22 as they said it was. You can barely buy the raw shafting from WBM for what he paid for the whole lot.

Having seen the failures I have I do take shafting work pretty seriously.. As always with your boat you can always do what you want. All I can do is share what I've learned...


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

jameswilson29 said:


> So after the split coupling is fitted and faced to the shaft, it can be split and re-attached without more fitting and facing?


Yes so long as it is new you're fine. If it gets a few years old and rusty, and you remove it, you'd be best to drop it at a machine or prop shop to have it re-checked. Most will check the fit and face for just a few bucks.


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