# Trailer Sailer, small keel boat or somewhere in between.



## Arcb

My wife and I are thinking about taking some time off work. Maybe winter 2018 and 2019, about 9 months.

We want to spend about a month in Savannah, Georgia. Maybe Cuba, maybe Bahamas, definitely the Florida keys. I think our current boat is too small, my wife isn't sure (weird, the boat is SMALL).

So, I am working with a purchase price of around $5k, probably more, maybe less, definitely under $10k all in. 

We are experienced sailors and live aboards.

Options; My current Bay Hen 21 on a trailer, I say no way, my wife thinks it might work, I am sure it wont work for living aboard for 6+ months.

Buy a bigger trailer sailer: we are talking about a Mac 26 here, without buying a truck, this is the best option. Other options include an Edel 665 or Hunter 240. My Car has a Max tow of 3500 lbs, and we cant afford a new car plus a new boat. 

Buy a semi trailerable boat. Maybe trailer a boat to Chesapeake Bay or something maybe rent a truck and leave the trailer in Chesapeake Bay somewhere. I am thinking something like a Tanzer 7.5 or Grampian 26 could work for this. Should be easy sailing from Chesapeake South.

Get a proper cruising boat, like a Tanzer 26, Mirage 25 or C&C 25 Mark 2 that can do the whole trip. The issue here is, we cant trailer home if we want to, even in the mid of winter. NYS canals don't open until April, if we leave in September, we might be out of money by then.

There are only 2 must make offshore passages on this trip. Kingston to Oswego, and New York City to Delaware, so I believe, even a small boat like a Tanzer 7.5 should be fine for weather. 

We will be my wife and I, small children and a basset hound, budget maybe $3k per month. 

Any thoughts.


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## SHNOOL

s2 7.9... easy to find, fast, super trailerable, outboard motor, built like a tank. 5ft 8in headroom.


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## Arcb

Yes, S2 7.9 would be a good compromise in the semi trailerable range. Maybe even trailerable. I looked at one last year based on your recommendation. It was expensive. $8k US, which is over $10k Canadian.

Basically, imagine I have $3000 in the bank, and anything above that will require monthly payments. 

My wife loves to tie up every night (and I don't mind it) which vastly adds to our living space.

I am seeing decent Tanzers in the $3500 cdn range, which is just stupid cheap.

I guess, I am trying to decide between the trailerable 7.5 for $3k cdn, the not trailerable 26 for $3.5k. or a fully trailerable boat like the Mac ( and maybe S2 7.9) for close to $10k.

There is no rush, we have to complete the Everglades Challenge in March before moving on to serious shopping for our next boat, but I find research takes some time. I will add the S2 to my thought process.


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## MikeOReilly

Arcb, my experience in what you’re doing is near zilch, but I’ve heard about trailering a Grampian 26, and I’ve seen a Paceship 26 set up on a trailer. 

Sounds like fun, no matter what you decide.


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## SHNOOL

Lancer 28... they seem to be nearly free when you look for them. Finding a good one on a trailer might be tough. But it's a ship! Full standing headroom, shoal keel, deck stepped mast. I only know of them because a former club member had one sailed it for years, and it sold for around $4500 on a trailer... and that was a bargain.


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## seabeau

Perhaps you can charter/rent a boat in Savannah for your cruise.


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## Arcb

All interesting thoughts.

Mike, for sure, both G23 and G26 our on the RADAR. The problem with both is finding one in decent condition at any price. There is one supposedly complete G23 on kijiji right now, complete with trailer for $500 :0 they are an awkward size though, hard to trailer and no head room.

Yes, Lancer 28 would be cool in the semi trailerable range.

Seabeau, do you have any thoughts on how to do a long term charter cheap in Savannah? I like the idea, but it sounds expensive.


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## cdy

I would not want to live on a C&C 25 with a wife, kids and a dog -maybe a weekend but for 6 months - no way unless you are tying up to marinas each night. But if you think you can do it more power to you. How about a Balboa 26 with the swing keel - they were meant to be trailered - probably a little better built than a Mac 26 - but maybe too heavy - you are going to have a real struggle finding a boat that will do what you want, have some room and under 3500lbs. - you probably need to change one of the variables - trade the car for a better tow vehicle or skip the towing idea.


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## Arcb

Cdy, when i was saying c&C 25, i was thinkingbthe Mark II model, which is a much nicer lay out than the mark I. For reference, we have lived together on a 1974 Grampian 30, a more modern boat like a Mirage 25, Tanzer 25 or C&C 25 mk II, isnt that far off some of the older 30 footers.

And yes, marinas every night is the plan, i know thats not the cheapest way, or the purist way, but its what we like. Marinas charge by the foot, so thats a big reason were interested in such small boats.

I have researched marinas in both Key West and Savannah with very reasonable monthly rates for a 24-26 foot boat, in the $400/month neighbourhood. I know this isnt really what a lot of folks would call cruising, Its more getting the heck out of ottawa for a winter via marina hopping and day sailing, we are cool with that, we like what we like and we dont like anchoring out.


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## kenr74

I really like my Chrysler 26. It is a solid boat, with standing headroom, can be launched at a ramp without a tongue extension, and I am very happy with its sailing performance. We have spent over a week aboard with our family of 6. You can often find them quite cheap. The only problem is that they are beyond your weight range. If you aren't proud about your tow vehicle, I might make you a package deal in the spring that includes my 1 ton chevy pickup, and fits in your price range  Have fun shopping.


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## seabeau

For possible boat charters in the Savannah area, give some of the local marinas a call.


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## Arcb

That's an interesting idea, I could see it working a couple of different ways, maybe they have boats on charter, or maybe they have a repo they would be willing to charter me, or maybe they would have a repo boat they could sell me cheap and when I was done with it, I could maybe sell it even cheaper or give it away. I don't need a CE rated boat, I just need something that floats and sails and is reasonably comfortable at dock.


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## seabeau

Another idea, check the Charleston SC and Savannah and Brunswick GA areas Craigslist for charters or sale.


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## zedboy

If I was really set on trailering, I would look for a pop-top Venture/McG 25/26. As light as possible, as much headroom as possible, as roomy as possible.

But buying down south seems like a good option. So much to choose from, and could really buy in the Chessie and do the ICW the rest of the way too. Just find a sailnetter whose house you can leave the car at in the meantime :grin

If I was in Ottawa I would get the heck out for the winter too....


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## Arcb

Im not set on trailering, its more like we are trying to decide what our best course of action is, assuming a September-march time frame (based on work obligations).

Yes, i agree, for real trailering the macs 25 and 26 appear to be the best. That would mean, in 6 months we could have 6 different home bases for a month. Chesapeake, Georgia, Florida and 3 other places.

On the other hand, by taking a more robust boat, we could see the entire coast, and possible slip over to Bahamas or Cuba for a bit. Then my problem is, its march, there is ice on the hudson or NYS canals and i cant get the boat back to Lake Ontario. At this point, i guess i could hire a boat mover with a truck.

Or i could buy something part way down and sell/give it away when im done. 

Im more mining for ideas on different ways to skin this cat, but i do always enjoy learning about different kinds of small boats too.

Yes, Ottawa winters are brutal. We moved here from Niagara Falls 2 years ago, and its like being in a different country, possibly a different planet. The rideau river was frozen bank to bank before the end of november this year.


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## zedboy

So considering you are doing this with the kiddies and the pooch ... I would want a bigger boat for the Bahamas, only for space reasons, and I think that would be hard to do on your budget. I would want something big enough to stay anchored out for a few days rather than be in a marina every night.

If you're staying on the East Coast that's less of an issue, and being able to cover miles on the highway and do all the dirt-side attractions would be a big plus for the kids. The boat would make a reasonable camper trailer.

BTDT on Ottawa in winter (only in small doses, but over many years). It's 26 and sunny here. Gonna call a friend and see about sailing tomorrow morning.


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## Sal Paradise

I'm guessing you find what you find down south and make your plan based on the boat you buy and where. 

There's probably more value in being flexible, keeping eyes peeled , scrounging around and wrenching than there is in speculating at this point. Find some owner that wants out, and low ball him with a pile of $100 bills in your hand. Sell the boat cheap when you are done, the difference in price is just the cost of your vacation. 

As an aside, I remain skeptical of the trailor sailor concept even though I own one. You don't have a lot of towing capacity there. 

Good luck with your voyage!


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## DonScribner

SailingUphill said:


> Lancer 28... they seem to be nearly free when you look for them. Finding a good one on a trailer might be tough. But it's a ship! Full standing headroom, shoal keel, deck stepped mast. I only know of them because a former club member had one sailed it for years, and it sold for around $4500 on a trailer... and that was a bargain.


We've been sailing a Lancer 25 for 10 years (just moved up). The Lancer was a great boat to start with, large for a trailerable but with head room and fairly stiff. Couldn't point well but other than that a nice starter. We've spent up to two weeks at a time on her. One of the best features was the 30" draft. You can go where motor boats fear to tread (water).

We now own (besides the Lancer) a Pearson-O'Day 290 and are thrilled by the performance so far.


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## Arcb

Ya, im a little skeptical about the towing thing too, im going to keep looking into it. We did a detailed budget over the week end, and our monthly budget will be a bit smaller than originally estimated, due to some fixed expenses at home, we will be closer to $2k/month than $3k. Ive always found, the shorter the water line, the fewer the expenses. I am concerned about our ability to put on coastal miles under sail on the water ballast boats.

22' seems to be about the limit i can tow for keel/swing keel boats, luckily i do have 4wd. Some of the older French designs seem pretty good, they seemed to be playing with form stability more on entry level boats earlier than we were in north America. Beneteau First 22, Edel 22 have nearly a foot more beam than north American equivalents from the late 70's and early 80's. A foot of extra beam can make a huge difference in a boat that size for interior space. Plus, that means we would not only have a 22' boat for storage, but also an SUV. As Zed mentioned, kind of nice for side trips to disney world and shopping etc.

Problem is, im a bit skeptical on all options. Getting south is fairly straightforward on any boat. Our potential window opens around labour day. Point boat south through NYS canals and go. The plus about buying a local boat is i can shake it down and fix it up in familiar waters. A boat i bought south, we would be pretty straight into the fire.

The issue is, the return trip, because our window closes when theres still snow on the ground in New York State. So how do we get the boat home. We could sell a US purchased boat down there, kind of a disposable boat idea, might work pretty well. Canadian bought boat, i dont think could be sold easily in the US. So, if it exceeed my tow capacity, i could uhaul it up if we can figure out trailer logistics. If its too big to uhaul- hire a boat mover, i suspect that option would break our budgets.

There are two complete Edels in my local area right now, with rig, sails, motor and trailer. One for $1000 cdn and one for $2500 cdn. Might go check them out. Wife says i can buy if i like them (and she likes them). Seems a bit early to buy a boat for a trip next fall though, you can wind up with a lot of boats in your drive way if you start buying boats 9 months before youre planning on using them.


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## Jeff_H

If I had to do this, in the price range you are considering, I would buy a boat down there in sound but cosmetically challenged condition, clean it up and go. Even if you had to sell it cheaply you should be able to spend less than the cost of fuel to tow a boat back and forth to Canada, and certainly less than chartering a boat for six months.

There are some nice boats out there for pretty cheap:
https://charleston.craigslist.org/boa/d/must-sell-1978-tartan-30c/6394047743.html
https://charleston.craigslist.org/boa/d/cal-34-sailboat-1969/6358806369.html
https://savannah.craigslist.org/boa/d/cc29-sailboat/6346986839.html
https://columbia.craigslist.org/boa/d/79-pearson-30/6386005846.html

Jeff


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## Towguy

I like the idea of buying down south,perhaps a quick flight down to find suitable ,nearer your holiday time,or get someone on here to check it out ,just has to float,be dry,and have sails,you could even bring your own motor( out board) if you drive down, maybe even ,cut a buy back deal with some one sort of as a rental. ralph


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## Arcb

Those listings look like pretty good value. I have no issues with cosmetically challenged boats. Really good prices, makes me wonder if i could find an old multi hull at a reasonable price, like an old Iroquois or something. 

For sure Tow. I have pretty good inventory for my little boats in terms of gear, electronics, motors etc. 

We have researched a couple more places that might be cool to use as a home base for a few weeks. One is the outer banks of North Carolina looks awesome. The other is Cedar key, Florida. Seems doable over 5 or 6 months. Start in North Carolina, then Savannah, Key West, Cedar Key. It seems like draft is a big concern in pretty well all of these places.

If i was to buy and sell a boat there, id have to figure some things out, taxes and registration for a foreigner seems like they could get complicated. Should be easy enough to figure out.


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## drew1711

Arcb said:


> My wife and I are thinking about taking some time off work. Maybe winter 2018 and 2019, about 9 months.
> 
> We want to spend about a month in Savannah, Georgia. Maybe Cuba, maybe Bahamas, definitely the Florida keys. I think our current boat is too small, my wife isn't sure (weird, the boat is SMALL).
> 
> So, I am working with a purchase price of around $5k, probably more, maybe less, definitely under $10k all in.
> 
> We are experienced sailors and live aboards.
> 
> Options; My current Bay Hen 21 on a trailer, I say no way, my wife thinks it might work, I am sure it wont work for living aboard for 6+ months.
> 
> Buy a bigger trailer sailer: we are talking about a Mac 26 here, without buying a truck, this is the best option. Other options include an Edel 665 or Hunter 240. My Car has a Max tow of 3500 lbs, and we cant afford a new car plus a new boat.
> 
> Buy a semi trailerable boat. Maybe trailer a boat to Chesapeake Bay or something maybe rent a truck and leave the trailer in Chesapeake Bay somewhere. I am thinking something like a Tanzer 7.5 or Grampian 26 could work for this. Should be easy sailing from Chesapeake South.
> 
> Get a proper cruising boat, like a Tanzer 26, Mirage 25 or C&C 25 Mark 2 that can do the whole trip. The issue here is, we cant trailer home if we want to, even in the mid of winter. NYS canals don't open until April, if we leave in September, we might be out of money by then.
> 
> There are only 2 must make offshore passages on this trip. Kingston to Oswego, and New York City to Delaware, so I believe, even a small boat like a Tanzer 7.5 should be fine for weather.
> 
> We will be my wife and I, small children and a basset hound, budget maybe $3k per month.
> 
> Any thoughts.


Arcb, I'm the original owner of a 2004 Hunter 240, kept in Chesapeake Bay. It's in great shape and I'll be listing her for sale in the spring. :smile

With that disclosure, I think the boat is a good candidate for your circumstances and goals. I'm happy to walk you through the boat's strengths and weaknesses if you like. Not as a sales pitch, just the truth from an owner who knows the boat well. Cheers.


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## Arcb

Drew, i think Hunter 240's are sensible boats for this kind of trip. From what ive read they are a nice compromise for WB boats. Relatively sturdy, lightweight and stable when compared to some of their water ballast competition.


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## drew1711

They are stable, Arcb. I sail mine in all kinds of snotty weather on the Chesapeake and she does well. We avoid gale warnings (as any sensible person should, regardless of the boat in question) and don't have issues.

She's tender, to be sure, but the solution is to reef. Reef early and often and all is well.


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## Arcb

I wonder if flat bottom/bilge keel boats could work. 

Something like a Westerly Nomad. 

Here's my theory. I could sail it down from Canada. One way trip, then rent a 10 foot Uhaul and a Car carrier type flat bed trailer, and haul the boat back home on the flat bed. It would save me having to get a car and trailer down south and storing it all that time. A one way Uhaul rental would be cheap. 

I know a lot of these boats aren't stellar sailors, but being able to rent a Uhaul and flat bed any where along the way seems like it could make life really easy.


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## kenr74

Arcb said:


> Here's my theory. I could sail it down from Canada. One way trip, then rent a 10 foot Uhaul and a Car carrier type flat bed trailer, and haul the boat back home on the flat bed. It would save me having to get a car and trailer down south and storing it all that time. A one way Uhaul rental would be cheap.


I think you would also have to consider the cost of a lift putting the boat on the trailer. When I bought my Chrysler 26 the marina charged me more to put it on my trailer ($330) than I paid for the boat ($280). When you add that to the cost of the U-haul (which I have never found to be cheap), and gas (terrible mileage). I think you are back in the realm where selling the boat cheap, or giving it away might be the better option.


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## StarwindMango

Jeff_H said:


> If I had to do this, in the price range you are considering, I would buy a boat down there in sound but cosmetically challenged condition, clean it up and go. Even if you had to sell it cheaply you should be able to spend less than the cost of fuel to tow a boat back and forth to Canada, and certainly less than chartering a boat for six months.
> 
> There are some nice boats out there for pretty cheap:
> https://charleston.craigslist.org/boa/d/must-sell-1978-tartan-30c/6394047743.html
> https://charleston.craigslist.org/boa/d/cal-34-sailboat-1969/6358806369.html
> https://savannah.craigslist.org/boa/d/cc29-sailboat/6346986839.html
> https://columbia.craigslist.org/boa/d/79-pearson-30/6386005846.html
> 
> Jeff


 @Arcb: The boat on the Columbia, SC Cragslist is about 5 minutes drive from where I keep my boat. If you are interested in that boat PM me and I could do a preliminary look for you.


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## Arcb

Hey, cool Startwind, I didn't know you were from that area.

Alright, it's a bit early for me to look at out of country boats yet. But I will definitely remember that you are in that neighbourhood.

For now I'm keeping an eye out for local trailerable that people are trying to give away or sell for a few hundred dollars. More expensive boats I'll start looking at in Aprilish if I can't get a nice freebie/cheapy locally.

😃


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## Arcb

Looking at a San Juan 21 on the week end. I have never been on one of these boats as they are not common in my area. The boat is very competitively priced. Something that caught my eye while reviewing the photos was a rather unusual looking deck head/liner with what appears to be longitudinal grooves and a cut out around the compression base.

Wonder if any one has any idea what I am looking at.


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## drew1711

Arcb said:


> Looking at a San Juan 21 on the week end. I have never been on one of these boats as they are not common in my area. The boat is very competitively priced. Something that caught my eye while reviewing the photos was a rather unusual looking deck head/liner with what appears to be longitudinal grooves and a cut out around the compression base.
> 
> Wonder if any one has any idea what I am looking at.


It looks like the liner was made to mimic wooden wainscot for decoration. My guess the liner was cut to repair a mast step issue (leak?) and put back. The round hole to port also looks like a re-bedding move.


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## Jeff_H

Its really hard to tell what we are looking at. My recollection is that these boats came with a smooth head liner so my guess is that someone decided to jazz one up and installed a simulated wainscot material. 

The San Juan 21's were decent boats that sailed pretty well for a trailerable. They were certainly better faster than a Morgan 22 built and a faster boat than the Catalina 22's. 

Jeff


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## Arcb

Interesting. Something like this https://www.homedepot.com/b/Lumber-.../Vinyl/Beadboard/N-5yc1vZcbqgZ1z0p5etZ1z0vb2m ?

I wonder what the motivation would be? Recore the deck from the inside and replace the headliner with wainscotting instead of fibreglass?


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## travis.taylor

I've been in a San Juan 21. Not your boat in my opinion.. Small interior even for a 21.

Something like this, perhaps?

https://charleston.craigslist.org/boa/d/oday-25-sailboat-with-custom/6529880703.html


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## Arcb

Thanks Trevor, I have actually changed tow vehicles since I started this thread last year. I went from a 4x4 V6 SUV to a V6 2wd van, so I need to keep the weight down. Trying to keep boat weight under 1700 lbs.

I suppose i should update the plans a little too in case some one reads through this. Our planned leave of absence is now only 6 or 7 weeks away. We spent about 3 weeks this winter in the Everglades and Keys and have decided we really like the Keys, so we no longer are thinking about going to any offshore islands, so a smaller boat is fine.

This trip isnt going to be a single trip, its going to be a bunch of smaller trips. Great Lakes and Nova Scotia in the summer and fall, then head down south in the late fall when the weather turns crappy. Stay down south until we have to come back.

Or something like that.


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## SeaStar58

There is an S2 6.8 for sale locally for $1,500. Needs some TLC (bottom cleaning and tires) but its on a tandem trailer and includes all the gear including a RIB. May be a tad heavy for your tow vehicle however it may be cheaper to take a one way rental for towing to each destination and leave your personal vehicle at home.

https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/d/22-ft-sailboat-trailer-and/6565398504.html


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## drew1711

I just stumbled across this on eBay, made me chuckle.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-Hiron...ash=item2cd298ea6b:g:F0MAAOSwrLxak2eg&vxp=mtr


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## drew1711

Speaking of chuckling, here we have a trailerable battleship. Why cruise Florida when you could actually invade it?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1942-USS-N...ash=item36303f15d9:g:EgoAAOSweJ1Z2N3c&vxp=mtr


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## Arcb

drew1711 said:


> I just stumbled across this on eBay, made me chuckle.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-Hiron...ash=item2cd298ea6b:g:F0MAAOSwrLxak2eg&vxp=mtr


Cool boat. Unfortunately its about 15 times the price of the San juan.

I have a small catamaran, trailered it 5000 miles this winter. I learned that i do not like trailering catamarans. Either you need a tongue that is about a mile long or, the hulls hit the si of your car when taking sharp corners. Love the way they sail, just dont like trailering them.


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## drew1711

Arcb said:


> Cool boat. Unfortunately its about 15 times the price of the San juan.
> 
> I have a small catamaran, trailered it 5000 miles this winter. I learned that i do not like trailering catamarans. Either you need a tongue that is about a mile long or, the hulls hit the si of your car when taking sharp corners. Love the way they sail, just dont like trailering them.


Understood - like I said, chuckle worthy. The seller is delusional with his price, IMO, given the elbow grease (at least) the boat will need.

Long distance boat shopping is really hard, but if you can't find something local, know there's tons of boats for sale in the mid-Atlantic that meet your criteria.


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## Arcb

travis.taylor said:


> I've been in a San Juan 21. Not your boat in my opinion.. Small interior even for a 21.


You were right, that was the tiniest 21 foot boat i have ever been on. Made my Bay Hen look like a battle ship.

The boat was remarkably sound for a nearly 50 year old trailer sailor, knowledgeable owner who had lived aboard her for 2 years on Lake Superior of all places. Had a wood stove and chimney on board. Interesting boat, but not big enough for us.

The wainscotting was fibre board which was interesting and unexpected.

Seeing that boat convinced my wife we dont need another boat, she says lets do our trips on the Bay Hen. We will see what comes along, but if shes happy with the boat we have than so am i.


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## travis.taylor

now you can spend all that money you just saved yourself on booze...


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## drew1711

> Seeing that boat convinced my wife we dont need another boat, she says lets do our trips on the Bay Hen. We will see what comes along, but if shes happy with the boat we have than so am i.


Go with what you know, sail and enjoy. Working on a new to you boat is not a vacation.


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