# Help me figure out what kind of boat I want.



## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I think I have a problem. The kind of boat people tell me I should get, and the kind of boat I like are not exactly the same....so I need a boat, but what to get?

Let's start with what I want to do with it. So here are some basic requirements.

1. Cruise and stay aboard full time. I don't say liveaboard, because I'm looking to actively move from place to place, probably not staying in a single place more than a month, unless waiting out a weather season. But I will be living aboard. Cruising, we'll call it cruising full time. I am wanting more space than I have had in the past. Standing headroom. I am six feet even. 

2. Of a size and design I can single hand. Everything from raising anchor alone, to raising sails, pulling into a slip. I want it easy to sail alone. So no forty footers, even if they are a blow out deal. Plus the cost and time of maintenance gets too high over mid thirties for one person. 

3. Sail on the California coast, either from San Francisco to San Diego, or start in Southern California and cruise locally, with trips to the Channel Islands and Catalina to hone my skills and ready the boat. Then go to Mexico for winter and then Hawaii or the South Pacific. We don't know when that will happen, so we can start by finding a boat that is good for California coastal and likely Baja, with the ability to cross the pacific. 

So that's the basics of what I need, here is what I understand and what I want, and why I think what I want contradicts what I need.

There is a spectrum of boats. On the left side of my mental diagram lie boats like albin vegas, Pearson tritons and cape dories. Heavy, old full keel boats with thick fiberglass, slow, but built like tanks. Able to withstand heavy weather. On the right side are hunters, Catalina's and the like. Lightly built, but with most of the cost going into a spacious modern interior. Creature comforts. Great to liveaboard and sail in protected waters. In the middle are boats like ericsons, newports and islanders and cals. Properly done able to safely take you anywhere. Spacious inside, but not too spacious. Moderately heavy, moderately fast.

I want a mid to late eighties fin keel, 30 feet, that is clean and nice and either well kept or mostly restored. It's high on my want list to be crisp and clean throughout. I want one of the mid range boats. Like an ericson 30. I also want an Olson 30, for whatever reason I really like the full on race boats, but hopefully you can convince me to stop looking at those. But I am looking. There's also a CF27 that looks pretty good, but I really like the Olson 30.

I had never seen an albin vega in real life that I knew of, one came to the dock and my friend said I had to go check it out. We had been talking about all these older boats and that they were what I needed. I looked at it and hated it. To me they are ugly, old and small. So narrow. Very outdated looking. But if that kind of boat is the right tool for the job, I'll get the right tool. It's just not appealing. But even if I didn't like land rovers, I wouldn't take a Ferrari across Africa.

I've been told it's a good time to buy a boat. I'm looking at craigslist everyday. I'm not finding much in the Bay Area, but a good amount in SoCal. If anyone knows a better resource than Craigslist though I am all for it.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Budget, including refit?


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

northoceanbeach said:


> I think I have a problem. The kind of boat people tell me I should get, and the kind of boat I like are not exactly the same....so I need a boat, but wha to get.


I stopped after the above. GET THE BOAT YOU LIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But other than that, if you don't know and have to ask stange people on the internet maybe you aren't ready for a boat.

And I mean this in a helpful way because I hope you get one, .................. that YOU like.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Budget under 20.

I'm ready for a boat. I would rather have the wrong boat and be sailing than wait for months or years for the perfect boat. I'm very flexible on what I will be happy with.

You're not strangers, I love you all.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

Here ya go over 90 boats listed here in California in the 29 -32 ft range under 30k. California sailboats for sale by owner.
And under 20k 68 boats. http://www.sailboatlistings.com/cgi...California&view_records=+Show+Matching+Boats+


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

newhaul said:


> Here ya go over 90 boats listed here in California in the 29 -32 ft range under 30k. California sailboats for sale by owner.


Thanks! I've seen that site, but why are most of the boats on there from months ago, are they still for sale or did they just not take them down.

https://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/boa/4614168230.html


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

Many are still available on that site here in Puget sound just takes a phone call to find out


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

newhaul said:


> Many are still available on that site here in Puget sound just takes a phone call to find out


I like this one a lot

1976 Cal Cal 29 sailboat for sale in California


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

good luck bud!

maye the SEARCH BE WITH YOU

now on a serious note

yankee 30 in california are cheap just be ready to pounce on them when they show up

however you have me worried about the age

mid eighties thats really reducing your options

as you know plenty of fin keelers and spades in the 70s too

my everyday searches are la, san diego and san fran bay...sailboat listings too and every once in a while a search on yachtworld

Ill be posting links for you

good luck!

christian

im just going gto put boats that fit your criteria, then you cando some homework on them and make a decision

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/boa/4588425333.html
a sister ship to my boat at a steal of a price, damn! makes me mad almost
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/boa/4618113374.html
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/boa/4623373032.html

a cheapie lancer
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/boa/4619386808.html

older criteria you had
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/boa/4627335273.html
a seafarer 28
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/boa/4591669996.html

the cal 3-30 are interesting boats, not the same as other vintage cals like the 29, 34 etc...
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/4617019800.html

not my cup o tea but fits your criteria, lancers do howver not have the best build quality on some models
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/4603786801.html

here is a nice ericson 29 with some cruising equipment
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/4627387770.html

and here is a left fielder, old criteria you had and old school design but it has a new diesel...probably could get him don to 15k
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/4607661264.html

islander bahama 30 a decent bay boat...no frills
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/4607661264.html

another fast cal 34
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/boa/4619793873.html

and then of course there are always the classy classifieds...where every once in a while a great deal pops up
http://latitude38.com/classifieds/classy_categories.lasso#.U_UdcGPJA6E

there was a shipman 31 I was lusting for a while back and it was a hell of a deal...old design, but well built fast and strong

hey here is an intersting one(islander iona 30, its an ior boat) if you can get past the taxi cab color(although makes for a good color at sea) also A NEW YANMAR
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/boa/4607859968.html


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

Has your Bristol been totaled?

A good choice for you seems like the Yankee 30

It's a heavily built but fast (due to a big rig) boat, plenty of comfortable room for living aboard solo, common in San Francisco where they are actively raced. The Tartan 30 is similar, but from what I've seen the Yankee 30 is better built (which is saying a lot since Tartans are already very nicely built boats).

The Yankee 30 is a much faster and larger and more comfortable boat than the Vega, which still being built to a similar level of robustness. Around Seattle they sell for $5-$20k depending on condition ($20k should get you a nearly new engine, interior, and sails). They have a nice motion in heavy seas.

Olson 30 barely has an interior. They seem like great boats to sail, but not great boats to live on for extended periods.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

northoceanbeach said:


> Budget under 20.
> 
> I'm ready for a boat. I would rather have the wrong boat and be sailing than wait for months or years for the perfect boat. I'm very flexible on what I will be happy with.
> 
> You're not strangers, I love you all.


Then if I were you I would look for something that would be fun to sail and provide good use for the 95% of the sailing you currently feel you are going to do. And I would look for a popular model that is well know and probably has a good basis for it's price and resell opportunity later.

Something like a Catalina 30/32.

Plan to lose 20-30% at least on getting a boat now and moving up later, no matter what boat you start with if you are in the $20k market (that's a whore's market, just the way it is).


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

The mid eighties, it's really more of a preference, and I really don't even have the knowledge to back it up. It was more again back to the story of the day my friend and I saw the albin vega come in, and we had been talking about the perfect boat for me. After I said I didn't like that one I walked to dock and found my favourite. Not my favourite of every single boat, but one I thought I could get. Without knowing I picked a 1989 ericson 38 or 39 and said I wanted that but smaller. So I'm totally flexible. Mostly I'm hoping for more living and storage space, and I think just like fin keels. I like the maneuverability. I like to push the rudder and it will turn.

Speaking of which, I would prefer the boat to be under 10,000 pounds and have a tiller. But again, I'm really flexible. As long as it can theoretically go anywhere and is shiny and clean I'm good. The biggest plus would be a windvane. I REALLY want a windvane. Also looking for pretty much ready to sail. It doesn't have to be perfect, but I don't want to do a restoration, or have to haul out right away. I want to get it, and sail. Like that cal looks ready to go. That's worth checking out. Here is another I need to go see.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/4599528488.html

Whores market?

Keep me updated Christian! Find me that boat and I'll see you in El Salvador! Ill eat at your restaurant or something.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

posted a bunch of "your criteria" links with some left fielders and my kind of boats

that contest I saw a while ago, its a good deal and they are well made

oh did you see that islander 36 I posted? for 12k? thats a steal providing the bulkheads and keel bolts are ok thats a hige boat for the price

beamy, sail real well on all points of sail etc...

I know this isnt what you want but at this price???????????????
roomy galore and YES it will take you anywhere
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/4624383407.html
yes a westsail 32 for this price is 1 in a million


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Oh dude, I want to leave today to go look at that islander. I'm about to give them a call. I'm probably leaving Tuesday next week. How long has that one been for sale? 

You've been watching craigslist, how long do you think the turnover is on boats? Days, weeks, months? Are more people looking now that it is fall and they want to go to Mexico soon, or are more people selling, now that summer, and I use that term loosely for Southern California, is almost done.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

northoceanbeach said:


> Oh dude, I want to leave today to go look at that islander. I'm about to give them a call. I'm probably leaving Tuesday next week. How long has that one been for sale?
> 
> You've been watching craigslist, how long do you think the turnover is on boats? Days, weeks, months? Are more people looking now that it is fall and they want to go to Mexico soon, or are more people selling, now that summer, and I use that term loosely for Southern California, is almost done.


it changes, sometimes they get swooped some of them have been for a while(late fall is a good time to buy as is winter as people arent in a sailing mode...however when its summer times there is more action out on the water and you get impulse sellers and buyers that want to change boats or get something new etc...

that islander hes been around for some months now

now before you hold me to any of these boats, due dilligence pays off

any boat I have ever sought I knew before I went to see it ALL its pros and cons, weakpoints and areas that need repair

so do some homework the more informed you are the faster and more you can negotiate with the seller...


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

It's your fault if it's a POS and I impulse buy


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I like this one although it seems overpriced but immaculately cared for
28' Luhrs S2 Sailboat
And I love this one
Columbia 9.6 Sailboat

Does craigslist email still get lost sometimes? Sometimes I write people and ask for their phone number and they never respond.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

And this
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/boa/4619106672.html
Damn there are a lot of choices in SoCal. I can't wait!


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

northoceanbeach said:


> I like this one although it seems overpriced but immaculately cared for
> 28' Luhrs S2 Sailboat
> And I love this one
> Columbia 9.6 Sailboat
> ...


people want to call and be called it seems, less and less people respond to emails these days..just a fact.

that columbia has an awesome hybrud system however they are passing on that $$$ to you as a 9.6 at 22 is way overpriced no matter what

the islander 36 I linked to has a decent diesel and has maybe 50% more interior volume and is a better sailor too

Im intrigued by the islander iona too...thats a boat I havent seen up close...


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

take this for what it's worth. I have never lived aboard, (my little 19'er wouldn't do) but I have lived in my 30" camper for a year and a half. I would not go for less than 30'. 

my personal dream boat has been a hunter 35 although now days it's down to a 33'. love the sleek lines and the interior looks great. doesn't sound like you want to do any major ocean crossings so maybe the nicer interior and sleeker lines works rather than stodgy lines and hefty build. 

good luck on your search and enjoy it. the hunt is fun.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

My sights are a lil higher in size and price 1981 Watkins Watkins 36 sailboat for sale in Washington its been on the market for almost a year now off and on


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

The islander 36 is a no. I called the guy, and what I don't like is he bought it 8-10 years ago and hasn't sailed it in at least five, hasn't painted of cleaned the bottom since he bought it, but kept insisting that since it had an epoxy barrier all that marine growth couldn't actually damage the boat, and would only need to be cleaned if the new owner intended to sail. Also things the standing rigging could be original, old sails, that sort of thing.

I'm pretty tempted by that contest. I think at 13900 it is a little overpriced, but he does sound like he needs to sell. I was reading a lot of articles about boats. What got me reading was this boat here.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/4629477551.html
That's a really pretty clean, spacious boat. But what about when I get out in some weather. Everything I read says the contest was built to the highest standards and if it's blowing forty, I think boats like that can just take it better, where the Catalina could start to break.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

that could be a blessing in disguise...he probably bought the boat to liveaboard on, what that means is the boat wasnt abused and or sailed hard

dont be too quick to dismiss boats based on previous owner comments

and while 8 years of no cleaning the bottom to go sailing is extreme...youd be surprised how good bottoms CAN be under all the weed and algae and stuff...

again dont be so quick to dismiss boats based on PO comments cause thats the easiest way to not be happy with anything.


yes the contest is a well built boat...apples and oranges when comparing to say a hunter or lancer or others...especially when the years span over different decades of build dates

cheers

btw if youve never heard about a catalina 30 or much of them you need to do some more reading bud

they are the volkswagens of boats especially on the west coast...they are beamy, sail well pseudo light build but arent anywhere as ofshore worthy without heavy modding as even an old columbia for example

some suffer from keel issues and cracks, bit overall they are good liveabords and decent sailors.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

northoceanbeach said:


> The islander 36 is a no. I called the guy, and what I don't like is he bought it 8-10 years ago and hasn't sailed it in at least five, hasn't painted of cleaned the bottom since he bought it, but kept insisting that since it had an epoxy barrier all that marine growth couldn't actually damage the boat, and would only need to be cleaned if the new owner intended to sail. Also things the standing rigging could be original, old sails, that sort of thing.
> 
> I'm pretty tempted by that contest. I think at 13900 it is a little overpriced, but he does sound like he needs to sell. I was reading a lot of articles about boats. What got me reading was this boat here.
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/4629477551.html
> That's a really pretty clean, spacious boat. But what about when I get out in some weather. Everything I read says the contest was built to the highest standards and if it's blowing forty, I think boats like that can just take it better, where the Catalina could start to break.


I'm sure I will get chastised for this however marine growth won't actually cause any I'll effects to fiberglass hulls don't even need to paint them if you don't want to it is better to paint to keep the growth in check. My islander has never been painted below the water and I do scrape/ clean the hull monthly. As christian said those years that the pro owned it were easy on the sails and rigging


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm not trying to criticize the catalina 30. This one looks great
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/4629477551.html

But aren't they more lightly built? If not, then why would anyone take one of those pocket blue water cruisers offshore over a catalina 30?

I'm not saying I have a great understanding of boats, but I'm led to believe boats like pacific sea craft, contessa, Bristol Channel cutters, Hans Christian and on and on were just better built than 70's on up Catalina's. Everything I have read says that a lot more work would need to go into rerigging a c30 than buying an Alberg 30.

But tell me I'm wrong, please, that's what I was trying to say earlier, that I'm not really in love with those blue water pocket cruisers.

Otherwise, the islander. Again I would like to be wrong, but I've seen some live aboards that haven't kept their boat up like someone who is actively sailing it. I believe that sailing a boat puts stress on it, but is also good for it, because those are the same boats where the owner/seller lists new sails, dates for engine rebuilds, new standing rigging. They have to keep it up because they are using it.

If I were to buy a boat that hasn't been used in a while and needs some things, there is a west sail 32 for 12000 that looks cool.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

yeah I linked that westail 32 needs work but its a way in need of more works versus a sailboat that has been lived aboard

and its been lived aboard in a marina and looks real clean thats an easy life, no matter how you slice it a sailboat that isnt sailed, rigging wise, rudder and important hardware etc will be less stressed and abused than sailing

for example an islander 36 that has been actively raced on in san francisco bay may have cracks in the hull and weak keel bolts and a crushed mast step and tired bulkheads and hardware simply from being raced...you cant replicate that no matter how you try by sitting still in a marina.



now if where in a mooring field with 1 ton of sealion and seagull crap on it then yeah maybe pass on it but not so black and white

anywhoo

regarding catalina 30s, not my cup o tea...they are flexible, lightly built but I have been aboard and sailed side by side with a few when I lived in the san joaquin river...

I cruised with one to the bay and I was in love with it(but I was 17) it was so big and beamy and sailed well

however I was in an excalibur 26 that maybe had 20 percent the volume of a catalina 30.

anywhoo

happy searching


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

North,
Catalina didn’t exist as a company before the early 1970s. I think that Frank and company were pretty fast “learners” and there were big improvements in design and building techniques especially in those early years. I wouldn’t consider the Catalina 30 all that “light” (it races as a 180 here in San Francisco). What I can tell you is that they have been extensively raced here in our notoriously strong winds and my personal experience is they handle 20kt wind conditions much better than below 10kts. The wider, open cabin will be a plus in the hotter climate of Mexico. Remember that they were built as weekend cruisers so they lack the tankage and other amenities desirable for round trips to Hawaii. But pretty much every boat on your “short list” suffers the same and no matter what under $20k boat you buy, you will be modifying for Hawaii. (but what am I saying? Ronnie Simpson is now somewhere in the South Pacific in his Cal 2-27 and after only one dismasting!). Catalina, Islander, Cal, Newport, Columbia, Ericson, are all roughly the same in design/build quality – at least for the models you can afford. So condition of the individual boat should trump all. Now, If you want to set your sights a little higher, I can put you in a Hawaii-ready Cal 40 today. All you have to do is give me a cashier’s check for $110,000! (I’ll even wave my broker’s fee for you.)


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

"You can't please everyone, so
You've got to please yourself
Na Na Na Na
Na Na Na Na"

Rick Nelson


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

your boat george? holy crap

take payments? jajaja

one of my top 5 dream boats...since I had my excalibur 26...the baby cal 40! jajaja

good stuff


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

vega1860 said:


> "You can't please everyone, so
> You've got to please yourself
> Na Na Na Na
> Na Na Na Na"
> ...


Chime in vega. I met you in Friday harbor, remember? We were standing by the motorcycles. Then I went and saw the albin vega you and your friend brought down from Alaska. That's actually the boat I was referencing in my anecdote earlier in the thread about walking the docks looking at these pocket cruisers.

So George, Christian, there are a lot of Catalina 30's for sale like the one I linked in Berkeley. I should include those on my short list? I can, that one looks great and I'm about to call the owner and ask some questions. I have nothing against Catalina. I would take one of those any day. I just thought they were weak.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

they have that reputation(the 30 mostly from hearsay and because back in the lat 70s and 80s they were being compared to westsails ad heavier more traditional boats) the same could be said for an islander, hunter, lancer even some pearsons...

again are you going to hawaii on the boat? if so some mods and things to look at are rudder and keel,

they are flexible, that does NOT mean weak, so adding stringers and reinforcing bulkheads and the like would be wise

will it go to antartica, maybe maybe not in one piece...again that applies to a LOT of boats

so hey here is a very fast, barebones but really nice shape leftfielder for you

Rocket boat for sale.

people do forget that there is a nice safety aspect when sailing a fast, manuverable light boat

these boats you sail like dinghies, adjust accordingly and get out of harms way

they are massively rigged and take high winds well..again just adjust your sails. I wouldnt mind an ex racer like this at all!

makes for fun passage times

here is a nice pearson 31
http://latitude38.com/classifieds/uploads/img_classy_576/10575__2014-04-15_1477_31Pearson3744NEW.jpg


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Yes, I'm going to Hawaii but I don't know when. I'd like to say next summer but who knows.

I don't know how much rocket costs, probably a lot, but I would race down there to buy that boat if I had the money.

You, by the way, are much better at finding them than I am.


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

No Christian, it is a friend’s Cal. MrsB and I actually toyed with the idea of buying it, gentrifying, and cruising it ourselves. But what made it such a good racer would require some big bucks to make it suitable for the two of us to cruise. We all have our own personal criteria and what may be desirable for my family doesn’t have to be desirable for others. Having raced Cal 40’s for a number of years I can tell you this: You buy a project boat for between $40-60k; Drop in $100-150k+ (Stan Honey specializes in this work); Race it a few years at $10-20k per year; Then sell it for $100k. You would think that classic plastic would be affordable. Oh, to sweeten the deal on the Cal 40, I think the owner would throw in a trailer for $10-15k. That way you could ship it back from Hawaii on a Matson.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

northoceanbeach said:


> Yes, I'm going to Hawaii but I don't know when. I'd like to say next summer but who knows.
> 
> I don't know how much rocket costs, probably a lot, but I would race down there to buy that boat if I had the money.
> 
> You, by the way, are much better at finding them than I am.


hell yeah Im good jajajajaja

its in your budget
10k OBO

md7a if in good condition will last a long time...some spares are hard to get...but hey 
look at the work it has done, new decks, paint rigging, etc...

its a race boat but so what, slap a collapsible dodger on, a solar panel and some anchor gear and bobs your uncle


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

GeorgeB said:


> No Christian, it is a friend's Cal. MrsB and I actually toyed with the idea of buying it, gentrifying, and cruising it ourselves. But what made it such a good racer would require some big bucks to make it suitable for the two of us to cruise. We all have our own personal criteria and what may be desirable for my family doesn't have to be desirable for others. Having raced Cal 40's for a number of years I can tell you this: You buy a project boat for between $40-60k; Drop in $100-150k+ (Stan Honey specializes in this work); Race it a few years at $10-20k per year; Then sell it for $100k. You would think that classic plastic would be affordable. Oh, to sweeten the deal on the Cal 40, I think the owner would throw in a trailer for $10-15k. That way you could ship it back from Hawaii on a Matson.


I met one of the nicest guys ever on SAYULA a cal 40 while cruising down the coast to el salvador way back when in 2000-01 he did just that

gentrified it

liz clark on swell is another cal40 cruiser with a surfers touch to cruising

I dont often lust but man the cal40 melts me still...


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

No way it is. I'm getting rocket. I just emailed him.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

northoceanbeach said:


> No way it is. I'm getting rocket. I just emailed him.


just need the head reinstalled and a galley unplugged

that aint rockets science!

ex race boats are awesome like this, plus you get a crap load of sails, a lot of gear and a lot of boat for the money

just get used to sailing a fast boat

simple in my book!


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Exactly! I emailed him about an approximate price. What do you think it's worth?


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

North,
There are a lot of C30’s still around because they were so popular. Frank was ginning them out by the hundreds every year. Actually, for me and a modest budget, I would have the C30 on my short list. I think a diesel one, properly outfitted, would be a great boat for Mexico. I like the room aboard if I was to live on it for month’s at a time. I also like the Newport 30 and Islander 28. I’m not sure I’d be chomping at the bit to take any one of these to Hawaii. For that, I’d be looking at an Olsen 30 or Santa Cruz 27. Unfortunately, MrsB nixed that Idea when I started talking about the SHTP too much. I am sure that if you went to the C30 owner’s website you will find information on what people did to theirs to prep for the Hawaii trip.


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## vega1860 (Dec 18, 2006)

My bias is well known. I like my Vega. She is not slow, capable of more than 7 knots under sail (Quite a lot more under the right conditions) and while she may be old fashioned, I would not call her ugly. What the Vega is, is the most boat for the buck you are likely to find in today's marketplace.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks George, there's an Olson in San Diego I like. There are a lot of Catalina's I can look at. I should mention that being able to sail with an electronic autopilot is a big thing for me. 

Here's what someone said about the Santana. 

I think the Santana 35 will go down as a true classic. It feels great to sail. The rig is still surprisingly modern. The interior is quite functional, both for cruising and for racing. The boat is a little underpowered in less than 8 knots, but not a lot of us sail in that little breeze anyhow. I think in 15 knots of wind with 10 bodies on the rail you can sail upwind nearly as fast as the J35. The cockpit design is a bit dated but still relatively functional. For under 30k they are probably the best deal going right now for a racer/cruiser.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

GeorgeB said:


> North,
> There are a lot of C30's still around because they were so popular. Frank was ginning them out by the hundreds every year. Actually, for me and a modest budget, I would have the C30 on my short list. I think a diesel one, properly outfitted, would be a great boat for Mexico. I like the room aboard if I was to live on it for month's at a time. I also like the Newport 30 and Islander 28. I'm not sure I'd be chomping at the bit to take any one of these to Hawaii. For that, I'd be looking at an Olsen 30 or Santa Cruz 27. Unfortunately, MrsB nixed that Idea when I started talking about the SHTP too much. I am sure that if you went to the C30 owner's website you will find information on what people did to theirs to prep for the Hawaii trip.


if you like the olson 30 and or santa cruz 27 then the santana 35 is another near twin

these are all the same era and origins type boats

ps. the newport 30 whil ok has had some issues, some big, not the least of which was the keel getting way lose

newport 30 vs. catalina 30

cat 30


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

northoceanbeach said:


> Thanks George, there's an Olson in San Diego I like. There are a lot of Catalina's I can look at. I should mention that being able to sail with an electronic autopilot is a big thing for me.
> 
> Here's what someone said about the Santana.
> 
> I think the Santana 35 will go down as a true classic. It feels great to sail. The rig is still surprisingly modern. The interior is quite functional, both for cruising and for racing. The boat is a little underpowered in less than 8 knots, but not a lot of us sail in that little breeze anyhow. I think in 15 knots of wind with 10 bodies on the rail you can sail upwind nearly as fast as the J35. The cockpit design is a bit dated but still relatively functional. For under 30k they are probably the best deal going right now for a racer/cruiser.


youd be surprised how many boats fit that despcription at one point in their life

similar things are said for even my islander...jajaja


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

here is a decent deal with a good engine...since you were thinking about columbias...however the seller says its a perkins when its clearly a yanmar...jajaja

1979 Columbia 35'

however its anti santana 35

jajaja


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

It's also I'm bellingham. That's a problem....


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Oh **** me! Rocket is 10,000 obo!


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

northoceanbeach said:


> Oh **** me! Rocket is 10,000 obo!


youre slow! come on now get a hang of this

offer 7.5 get it for 9 or 8.5, invest about 1k in getting the head sorted and galley and accessores...

slap on a nice tiller pilot

dodger, solar panel that leaves with oh 7k for cruising

Ill see you down here

ps here is a cruised out version down in OZ
http://www.tradeboats.com.au/detail/marine/boats/santana/35/149790


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## Osprey 26 (Jun 28, 2013)

My guess is you want good sailboat. I got crappy one, on top of that i got brand new sail on my humble 2 - 27. 
My next one is your dream. Go and dream i am do in it.
Thank you yan ying


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## wikiwiki (May 11, 2014)

Albin vega ? pure torture, slow cramped, uncomfortable; you'll be bobbing around for days on end with the sound of sails slatting. figure average blue water passage making at 80 miles per day tops.

on west coast your best bet would be something like a Santana 30. the cruising version has a high cabin house. NewportNewbie on here has one and can tell you about it. $10-20k many around west coast

if you wanted to go bigger

a couple has been blue water sailing their S35 for past couple of years 
http://www.wdschock.com/news/199/


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

northoceanbeach said:


> It's also I'm bellingham. That's a problem....


Your in Bellingham then why not vef boat here and sail south here is one that meets all your criteria but age 1972 Jouet33 Fandango sailboat for sale in Washington


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm no longer in the Bellingham area. 

I talked to rocket. He didn't take me seriously I don't think, probably because I sounded like an excited kid. Also it's been for sale for three months so he has probably had plenty of people call but not buy and thinks I'm another looks loo. I tried to ask the good questions. Here's what rocket needs:
Plumbing disconnected. Has new thru hulls, needs a y valve and plumbing reattached. Range is toast. Needs new cooking equipment, whatever choice I would make. Bottom hasn't been cleaned in nine months or painted in three years, at which point it was epoxied and painted. He said he was going to have a diver come, but whoever buys it would want to haul it out and have it surveyed. I'm thinking like yeah " I'm bringing a wetsuit and some fins and I'm just going to shake the **** out of the rudder and bang on the deck with the back of a screwdriver, but whatever"

Not much for electronics whatsoever. 

Diesel is original Volvo md7a, which runs good, but should have a v shaped tank. It has a flat bottomed tank, and if run over half empty, needs to be bled and reprimed? 

Sails, of which there are about 15, everything from carbon to Kevlar, are older but useable, but not if I was to run a successful campaign. Different folks call different levels of sails useable, I have a feeling these are pretty decent. He buys sails from rich people that upgrade very frequently, and recommended that if I wanted to successfully race I do the same. He is "old school" and doesn't use electronics or an autopilot, but there are the attachments there from one in the past.

I think it sounds awesome. I hope he still has it next Wednesday. I also hope he doesn't read this, but why would it be so cheap, and how has it possibly not sold? I was reading threads from 2006 on sailing anarchy and they said these go for 20-30k. How is a 35 foot boat that looks super clean ten and not snatched right up? I'm so getting this. But not for ten, I'll never spend ten on this thing!


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## FirstCandC (Mar 26, 2013)

Alberg 35 that needs an engine
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/4611351134.html


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

northoceanbeach said:


> I'm no longer in the Bellingham area.
> 
> I talked to rocket. He didn't take me seriously I don't think, probably because I sounded like an excited kid. Also it's been for sale for three months so he has probably had plenty of people call but not buy and thinks I'm another looks loo. I tried to ask the good questions. Here's what rocket needs:
> Plumbing disconnected. Has new thru hulls, needs a y valve and plumbing reattached. Range is toast. Needs new cooking equipment, whatever choice I would make. Bottom hasn't been cleaned in nine months or painted in three years, at which point it was epoxied and painted. He said he was going to have a diver come, but whoever buys it would want to haul it out and have it surveyed. I'm thinking like yeah " I'm bringing a wetsuit and some fins and I'm just going to shake the **** out of the rudder and bang on the deck with the back of a screwdriver, but whatever"
> ...


mostly because it has been "gutted some" and because it was probably very actively raced...

good news is you have new keel bolts...which is a very good thing

some santanas suffer from spongy decks

there might be a couple of soft spots or not

who knows

ps. north a little advice on the over the phone thing, be serious ask pertinent questions and dont overtalk or get overzealous, this for some reason puts sellers off, also KNOWING MORE ABOUT THE BOAT than the po too...

its an art talking over the phone to an owner and getting info from them sometimes...if you are serious then arrange a date and time and call and goo look at it, if you have any question then make sure they are pertinent

just some cents here to help out in your search

ocean here is a good thread pinpointing any and all issues the santana 35
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=41349

if you dont want to read it all basically look at the rudder post, in wild downwind legs some reported that the shaft would bend when hard over...if so you would have to fix that...

peace


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## FirstCandC (Mar 26, 2013)

I heard that there is a $500 San Juan 24 somewhere in San Francisco Bay. It may be for sale at the right price. A proven bluewater cruiser with an excellent backstory..


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

the russian fellow quit then?


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Yeah whatever happened to that guy? I never did like SJ 24's though.

Am I going to kill myself trying to singlehand a race boat made for a crew? Is it hard for one person to do all that needs to be done?

I love the huge wide flat deck though, easier to lay on and store my dinghy, I love my dinghy now, no one is taking it from me. I like the cockpit layout better than smaller boats, the cabin looks like I will have no problem with long term storage, should be comfortable. The fact that they seem to take a different approach to rp getting pooped, instead of having a tiny cramped cockpit, it's this huge thing that water pours off of. Should be fun to sail wet, no dodger for me.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

with ex race boats the thing to keep in mind is to not overcanvass or overpower if you will since you wont have rail meat, however when cruising you will have more "ballast" down low but it doesnt have the same leverage as rail meat over the lifelines

another advantage of race boats is redundancy...there almost always will be an extra winch, extra cleat, jam cleat, blocks, hardware etc...

sailwise use what it has till it busts, then put something else up till that busts

after you have used 15 SAILS look for race throw aways...like the po told you about

jajaja


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

It sounds like the way to go, really. I get a lot of awesome sails, a lot of fun things to fiddle with when sailing. It has a tiller and I can get like three raymarine st2000 tiller pilots. I watched that video of the couple in the South Pacific on one and they were tiller piloting it. 

They look like they are built to handle heavy weather but in a different way. Those chain plates look huge. Like, instead of a tank that plows through the water, the bang across the top and get knocked down but get back up.....unless you fly a spinnaker, then you can lose your mast. That's my take on it......


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

[/Quote]
ocean here is a good thread pinpointing any and all issues the santana 35
Santana 35? - Sailing Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

if you dont want to read it all basically look at the rudder post, in wild downwind legs some reported that the shaft would bend when hard over...if so you would have to fix that...

peace[/QUOTE]

See! even that thread said they are $20k. But it was written in 2006, did boat prices go down that much since then?


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

in some cases yes, depending where...however there are 3 or so issues pushing that boat down the cost ladder

fuel issue regarding the tank
gutted interior
old md7a diesel
spartan accomodations
older sails(if the buyer is a racer this makes a difference)

peace


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

northoceanbeach said:


> But tell me I'm wrong


You're wrong! But as long as you get most of your info from internet forum posts by people who seem to be mainly invested in maintaining their own boats' status you will never be able to come to terms with many great boats that have proven themselves over and over.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

ocean here is another x racer that fits the bill too

1977 Peterson 34' Sailboat - Most Boat for the $$$$$

check out another columbia 9.6! cheaper too
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/4623173756.html


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Those two both look great! I emailed the columbia, still need to find out the details. I'm going to call the Peterson. The Pete compared to the santana. The Pete has a rebuilt atomic four, compared to a non rebuilt Volvo, which is better? The Pete has better electronics but a more gutted interior.

There are seriously a lot to choose from, it looks like the big names like ericson and catalina sell for more. Probably because they are big names, but if you are willing to buy something less common, you can get a better boat for the price.

I should think more about this contest. I think he would take less, I think he needs to get it out of there, it has that new beta and new sails. It's just not so big and fast and pretty and spacious as rocket. The only thing I'm worried about is the inboard issue, being addressed elsewhere.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/4599528488.html


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

right you are...

again there are benefits to all boats...for example Im sure you have seen by now that even a badly maintained ericson 32 is more expensive than a pristine no name x racer

the petersons have their quirks too, some are vaccum molded and or composite, for example on that 34 you can see the framing...
anywhoo

a rebuilt atomic 4 is very reliable

ask what has been done to it?

electronic ignition? fwc? new distributor? wires, etc...carb?


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Ok, I called but they didn't answer. I left a message. 

I have almost ruled out ericsons, since I don't plan to sell soon, I would rather get a better boat for less.

Catalina I have ruled out. It's not for me. The one in Berkeley was 17900 and was developing a smile.

I'm furiously trying to do research. I'll probably narrow it down to three boats in either the bay or SoCal I look at Thursday and Friday and I'll bet by next weekend I start a new thread
"Here's my new boat"


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## GeorgeB (Dec 30, 2004)

North,
As they say in economics, used boats are a pretty much perfect market place – that is both parties have (close to) equal access to the boat’s condition and the asking prices for comparable boats are also known to all. One party doesn’t have a monopoly on all the information. The fact is certain boats (and brands) retain their quality (and resell value) better than others and the marketplace recognizes this fact. Don’t think for a minute that because a boat was originally produced in larger quantities, that it’s resell price would be greater than a more rare boat. If that was the case, used McGreggor’s would be selling at premium prices and Sabres and Moodys would be heavily discounted. You will need to kick a lot of tires when you are down here. For example, I’m not sure a former race boat with barely five foot head room and a port-a-potti is all that desirable for a year in Mexico.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

This beauty? New sails rigging and rebuilt yanmar.

28 Taipan Sloop 1976 Yacht for Sale


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

This looks super promising. I thought pacific seacraft were always over 20,000$.

25-FT PACIFIC SEACRAFT, 1977 
San Rafael $18,500

Traditional pocket cruiser in excellent condition. Yanmar diesel, dripless shaft, newer water and fuel tanks, 15 gallons fuel, 20 gallons water, VHF radio, tabernacle mast, 2-burner stove, marine head. Newer through hulls with ball valve seacocks. NEW in 2014: Epoxy paint on hull and topsides, Furlex furler and Hood 120 jib, group 27 maintenance-free battery, smart charger, custom mattress, overhead hatch, bottom paint. Clean survey October, 2013.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

The Pacific Seacraft 25 is a robust but small boat (interior height is around 5'). I think it would be smaller than your Bristol 27, and might not be larger than your Ranger 23 was inside. I think this makes their value much lower than any other Pacific Seacraft model. However that is still a nice price and it sounds well equipped.


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## Westsailforever (Jul 9, 2014)

Seriously Mr. Beach, Hawaii the So.Pac, Mexico ? Your choice is clear. SABAI - W32

You buy this baby and I will help you bring it up here , we will shake her down over at Catalina and I will buy you a Buff. Milk.


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## paikea (Aug 3, 2014)

I am not even close to being ready to get a sailboat yet. But I already started to make a list on not what kind of boat I would like but actually what would I want the boat to contain in terms of equipment (mandatory and optional and comfort and safety) and what kind of space and what would you use it for, what additional personal aspects of your life would require additional space ( ie. photo equipment does take space when you put to all together) and what kind of cruising, and how difficult or easy would be to single-handed sail it , what you want into a galley, etc. Individually they are all "small" things, but when put together its a lot. 
Honestly, once I started to just make a list of what things a normal size boat can possibly contain I started to make "my list" and somehow a picture forms, then you will recognize it when you see it easily. 
Someone not long ago introduced me to the term "Boat porn". Look at boats till you are drained.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

northoceanbeach said:


> This looks super promising. I thought pacific seacraft were always over 20,000$.
> 
> 25-FT PACIFIC SEACRAFT, 1977
> San Rafael $18,500
> ...


wait a minute ocean...

so you put your likes dislikes and criteria and I spend all my "effort" in selecting those types of boats only for you to go awol and go with traditional boats too?:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher

maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

dont even get me started on traditional and traditional feeling and looking boats...

basically all you have now in your criteria is a BUDGET....

its a big world out there boat wise...

seriously


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I know, I know, I'm sorry. I'm not really going to get the pacific seacraft. I've just got this part of me that's telling me that those are what I should get. I really don't know why other than that for years whenever ive read about boats and thought about what I wanted one to do, it was always reading atom voyages, or james baldwins best small boats to take you anywhere. I'm still wrapping my head around the concept that I don't have to take an old cramped boat to get there safely. I will try to focus.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

northoceanbeach said:


> I know, I know, I'm sorry. I'm not really going to get the pacific seacraft. I've just got this part of me that's telling me that those are what I should get. I really don't know why other than that for years whenever ive read about boats and thought about what I wanted one to do, it was always reading atom voyages, or james baldwins best small boats to take you anywhere. I'm still wrapping my head around the concept that I don't have to take an old cramped boat to get there safely. I will try to focus.


those are my preffered boats btw...but as you know they are wet, cozy and a bit cumbersome at times

however and this is my very personal experience

a triton, or a folkboat or some similar boats even the vega have an awesome cruising cv, and do its owners more than well...

the only boat I have regretted selling is a marieholm folkboat, bar none its the one boat I had no qualms about, not even space...yes I had to duck but it was the best performer of all...

I was just surprised you went from mid 30s to 25...

for example have your looked at a southern cross 31?, a bodega 30, alberg 30 etc? they would all fit the bill for a pseudo heavy ofsshore small cruiser with a full keel or 3/4 cutaway etc...

even a vanguard 32, old, small waterline etc make decent cruisers...

just sayin...

wish you the best


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## drosymor (Aug 6, 2014)

Christian: Interesting you mention the Alberg 30. There were quite a few of the around Toronto in the late 60's A beautiful boat but I saw them as quite tender. For example, I was on a Hinterhoeller 28 in one of the lake weekend day races. We were approaching the turn close hauled. 3 Alberg 30's made the turn ahead of us and had their spinnakers set. We got a sudden violent gust with a pronounced windshift. One Alberg dipped her spreaders, The other two were 'that close'. All three lost their spinnakers as result of going into the water and had to withdraw. The H28 I was on probably heeled not much more than 30 Degrees. That experience makes me reluctant to support the idea of the A30 as offshore.

Paul

Paul

Paul


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## Westsailforever (Jul 9, 2014)

Lord Symor, is this the Alberg you speak of ?ALBERG 30 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com . Also how much do you want for the cat ?


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## Westsailforever (Jul 9, 2014)

northoceanbeach said:


> I know, I know, I'm sorry. I'm not really going to get the pacific seacraft. I've just got this part of me that's telling me that those are what I should get. I really don't know why other than that for years whenever ive read about boats and thought about what I wanted one to do, it was always reading atom voyages, or james baldwins best small boats to take you anywhere. I'm still wrapping my head around the concept that I don't have to take an old cramped boat to get there safely. I will try to focus.


Hey what could go wrong with a Pacific Seacraft ? May I tell a little story ? OK . A friend of mine has one it's a 27' Orion . He took it down to Mexico from So. Cal ,he harbor hopped for a while then sailed (single hand) for three days . (He had a Monitor Vane) He came to a little bay, he anchored. He told me he was so tired all he could do was sit in the cockpit and drink a beer . He saw a young man swimming out to his boat, he got nervous . The guy got to his boat , and he had a tube in his mouth, he un corked one end and took out a menu . He said come ashore and we will feed you. My friend stayed in that bay for a month , they fed him lobster rice and beans and Pacifico for 5 dollars a meal .


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## drosymor (Aug 6, 2014)

West: That is indeed the boat to which I was referring. As for the cat, she is not for sale but if she does not like the 12 hr. commute each way from Las Cruces to Houston, or the boat, she will be free to someone who will love her.

Should it not be Lord Seymour? (grin)

Paul


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

drosymor said:


> Christian: Interesting you mention the Alberg 30. There were quite a few of the around Toronto in the late 60's A beautiful boat but I saw them as quite tender. For example, I was on a Hinterhoeller 28 in one of the lake weekend day races. We were approaching the turn close hauled. 3 Alberg 30's made the turn ahead of us and had their spinnakers set. We got a sudden violent gust with a pronounced windshift. One Alberg dipped her spreaders, The other two were 'that close'. All three lost their spinnakers as result of going into the water and had to withdraw. The H28 I was on probably heeled not much more than 30 Degrees. That experience makes me reluctant to support the idea of the A30 as offshore.
> 
> Paul
> 
> ...


most all cca and alberg boats especially are initially tender, then both keel weight and waterline length stabilize as you heel more...however most any boat with a spinnaker up that gets a big gust just right will topple down...

ever see j boats racing in san fran bay? happens all the time, doesnt mean they arent good race boats though right?

many would disagree about the alberg 30 not been offshore ready,or a decent small cruiser, as you know there have been a handfull that have done circumnavigations, and one was a 99% non stop circumnav who unfortunately dismasted a few miles from the finish

the h28 is a nice boat too...


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## drosymor (Aug 6, 2014)

Point taken. But of the fleet it was only the Albergs that took the knockdowns. There are many types of boat that have circumnavigations with extensive preparations, superb sailors and a dose of luck. I am not sure they would be appropriate for the average Joe like me. I am buying a Freedom 40. I could probably use it for long passages, but it wasn't really designed for that.


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## avenger79 (Jun 10, 2009)

that taipan 28 looked very nice.


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## single2coil (Apr 12, 2014)

Make Your own decision. Then you can't blame everyone else for your choice.


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## single2coil (Apr 12, 2014)

Make Your own decision. Then you can't blame everyone else for your choice


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

drosymor said:


> Point taken. But of the fleet it was only the Albergs that took the knockdowns. There are many types of boat that have circumnavigations with extensive preparations, superb sailors and a dose of luck. I am not sure they would be appropriate for the average Joe like me. I am buying a Freedom 40. I could probably use it for long passages, but it wasn't really designed for that.


point taken too! its apples oranges and many fruits out there to chose from...

one specific about the alberg and other similiar cca boats is the alberg indeed has a small amount of ballast despite the cutaway long keel...as a percentage.

compared to a pearson triton which has over 40% and then compare that to say a contessa 26 or folkboat and you can see that although similar some perform and respond better to certain situations...

for example the folkboat has 51% ballast...and will take higher winds in stride with a bone in her teeth...the alberg for example like you noticed will roll easier and cause more havoc, however that doesnt mean it wont roll back jajajaja


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

avenger79 said:


> that taipan 28 looked very nice.


james baldwin from atom does some quite famous mods to the taipan

the outboard well bucket
his custom grounding legs to haulout on the beach
watertight bulkheads etc

only thing is they are quite quite rare


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## Westsailforever (Jul 9, 2014)

drosymor said:


> West: That is indeed the boat to which I was referring. As for the cat, she is not for sale but if she does not like the 12 hr. commute each way from Las Cruces to Houston, or the boat, she will be free to someone who will love her.
> 
> Should it not be Lord Seymour? (grin)
> 
> Paul


Sorry Paul , hey I'm a colonist you really think I can spell the Queens English ? I had a cat just like that, I loved that cat, one time Mrs. Westi and I had to bring it to the boat because we were having the house fumigated , what a mistake that was. the cat was terrified. In a different thread a guy wants to know what boat to buy , ok fine but he also has a Lab dog . I say big mistake , a big dog like that and he likes a 30' boat . I'm thinking fleas and shed hair and stink . Not only that a dog like that needs a yard . He told me that I just don't like animals . I like animals I just think it's a mistake to have them on a boat .


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I have(had) a corgi, however she hates boats and will love staying with my girlfriend. I hate dogs on boats and the hair about as much as she does. 

I'm all over the place. Like I said though, at least I have ruled out the middle ground, unless I find one that's just perfect(maybe a cal). I think I also want something more unique. There are a lot of Catalina's and ericsons, but how many Taipans? That taipan does look nice. 

Going from 35 to 25. It's more the other way around. I was looking for something around 30, saw Rocket and realized I could have something bigger. Although the cost of ownership would be more. But despite my initial excitement over Rocket I don't think I want the old Volvo it comes with. 

Besides the Taipan heading my current list, we also have 
Cal 3-30 -new sails, rigging and engine 15

PS25- you would have to see it. I'll try to a track a picture, but you really need to see them all. It's near perfect. It's got all the little details just right. It's the way that I would restore a boat and a good platform for me to continue. The only drawbacks are his high asking price(18,900) and it's small. 

Contest 29- new beta(2006) new north sails(2014) new standing and runnin rigging. His pictures were terrible, but the descriptions sounds good. They look like funny sturdy Dutch boats with a Samson post and a steel tiller. 13,900

Besides those there are two more I am waiting for information on. A cape dory 28 for 17 and a Farallon 29 for 12,700. 

I just wanted to recap a little here so you knew were I stand and that I do have it narrowed down at least a little.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

the farrallon 29 is another name for the bodega bay 30 just so you know

great local boats

now

dont get mad at me but you are letting the engine dictate what SAILBOAT your are getting

if your biggest worry is buying a newish engine because you are green on maintenance and diesel knowledge thats fine but dont let a new beta in a bucanner beat out a yankee 30 or something similar with a decent old engine either

not trying to scare you or offend you but sailing qualities/overall condition should be much more important than a new diesel

having said that there is nothing like a new engine with almost zero maintenance to do but oil and filter changes

jajaja


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Quote
if your biggest worry is buying a newish engine because you are green on maintenance and diesel knowledge thats fine but dont let a new beta in a bucanner beat out a yankee 30 or something similar with a decent old engine either

Edit-point taken but I'm not. No buccaneers. It's more that there are so many choices. I would rather have a comperable boat with a new engine over one with old. It's not like Rocket was probably the perfect boat for me anyways. 

I know. That's true. I'm trying to get the whole package. The engine isn't my number one priority, but it is in the top three. Mostly because it is one of the most expensive upgrades. Some people I have called with a new beta have said it cost them upwards of $15,000 to replace. It's either that or re power with a later model or rebuild but still in the thousands and a lot of down time. 

Sails I could buy brand new, a more important source of power for a sailboat but a lot easier, cheaper and more fun to replace. One call to Doyle and I've got new sails(6 weeks later). 

Also I've spent too much time in the PNW lately where you probably motor at least twice as far as you sail. So it's shaped my learning of what sailing is. To me it is mostly motoring waiting for wind and then you put your sails up, then it dies ten minutes later or you round and island and take the sails down. 

I'm sure California will be a different experience ad that's one more reason I want to go there. It's a sailing location where up north it's a cruising place.


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## drosymor (Aug 6, 2014)

Contest 29: She is a sturdy Dutch boat. Almost same B/D as Triton (39%). Oh, don't forget, the Dutch invented the yaght

We had a toy poodle on board and she was no problem. She enjoyed it and didn't shed.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

totally true, it depends on where you are...if I where in the pnw I too would look for a nice repower or bigger engine in general terms

however hear me out

not all engine rebuilds are expensive or prohibitive and if you find a decent engine to rebuild

say a perkins 4108, a yanmar 2gm, 3gm, or say even an old 2qm or some volvos(not all geeze) universal m30 or a westerbeke or something they are all good rebuild candidates

2.5k in a rebuild and you have a new engine again for a looooooooooooong time provided you have a solid base to rebuild from...

some engines are dead cheap to rebuild too, less than a grand.

ps there are likewise many places to get sails new and used...you dont have to go all out getting doyle or north or more expensive sails either...and spend 6k there...

and laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaastly

so cal is far from a sailing location...some days its just as glassy and quiet as the pnw...just warm and sunny...

there is plenty of motorsailing there and down this way too...

good luck


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

True, true. The windy part of California is the north and central. I should really get ys elf into the trade wind belt and never leave. But I'm not too good to motor. I like being out on the boat in general and 9 hours of motoring is pretty relaxing and fun. 

Talked to the CD28 guy. I need pictures but he described it well.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I just remembered it has to have a big enough foredeck to hold my dinghy which is seven by four feet in its bag. This is an absolute must since I can't tow it everywhere.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

youll be way cramped in anything less than mid 30s, doesnt mean you cant do it...most do.

in fact that would take up all useable deck space on my boat(36ft) and be really uncomfortable for every day stuff like anchoring, changing sails, whatever


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

That seems like an awfully big dinghy. We had an 11' air floor dink and it was about 4' by less than 2' in diameter. It was about all we wanted on the foredeck of a 45 footer with a (removable) inner stay.


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

you could always sell that dingy north, make some money off it and get a small hard dink and engine thats light etc...

or a nice collapsible inflatable etc...

even ks on a 45 footer felt maxed out, you on a sub 30, or 30 or theraboauts will be way cramped

on our old boat we had a zodiac that collapsed in a bag to about 3ft by 2 took very little space but still very "there" 

that was on a 28ft ketch with less foredeck space than a comparable sloop.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

7x4' is not large for a deflated RIB and should fit on the foredeck of most 28' or longer boats that don't have a babystay.

The J length (sail dimensions) will give you the horizontal distance from the front of the mast to the forestay. On my boat that is 11.25'. I think 3-J in dinghy length (so 8.25' on my boat) will give you minimum clearance around the boat for foredeck work, and 4-J gives you more comfortable working room.

This is what an 8' dinghy looks like on the foredeck of my 28' boat:









I won't say that it's perfect, but it doesn't block access to the anchor locker or get in the way of sailing. It leaves me enough room to move forward when I need to. I do tend to use the asymmetric spinnaker instead of the symmetric one when it is up there just because it is easier if I don't have to deal with the pole.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm only liking Alex's post because it's what I wanted to hear lol. I can't sell my dinghy I already bonded with it. It was the star of my summer! 

See Alex's boat, I can't say for 100%, but that's the condition I want. It looks very crisp and clean and orderly and nice. I know he has probably put a lot of work into making it that way but....nice boat Alex, I haven't really seen it before. See the bottom of his dinghy, how white it is? Most people don't keep them that white. I do.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm quiet because I'm taking the weekend to reflect upon a balance between what I think I want to do(sail to Mexico and te South Pacific) and what I think I will do.

This boat looks great for coastal cruising. 
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/boa/4641616545.html

I don't even know what I would do with a refrigerator and hot water shower. It's so tempting. I can see why people own them. But it wouldn't do me any good in a storm. Will I be in a storm?


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## Westsailforever (Jul 9, 2014)

Mr. Beach have you seen this guys site ? Sail Panache | Strutting across the Pacific Ocean If your thinking about the south pacific it's worth a peek .


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## Tenoch (Sep 28, 2012)

Did you decide against the Taipan?


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## drosymor (Aug 6, 2014)

The pictures and the description make her sound like a steal at that price. The question is: is she as good as she's cracked up be? Navel contemplation can be good but sometimes we've got to decide: fish or cut bait.

Cheers. Paul


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

No, didn't decide against, just trying to take the weekend to think about what I want most.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Would it be a good move or bad to purchase this ya'll. I've only sailed sloops, never a ya'll. It's freaking gorgeous though. I had never heard of a Nantucket Clipper before. Supposedly they work well in light winds with just the mizzen and partially furled jib. It also has tanbark sails. Besides the Ya'll factor, the other thing that is either good or bad is a Sabb variable prop engine. You know I want a good engine that works, and I've read some people love these. Thoughts? I included a photo because you have to see this boat to really want it. I posted a 'want' ad on craigslist and this guy responded. But when he sent me pictures I was blown away.


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## Westsailforever (Jul 9, 2014)

There once was a man from Nantucket... Sorry I could not resist . This looks like a salty cruiser , but only 20 gals. water ? 18 gals. fuel ? I don't know anything about a SAAB , I would check with a mechanic (parts?) . But I do love a Yawl . And that Clipper bow looks nice .http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=4602


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

It does look salty. And well loved. You can tell a lot talking to the owner about his passion for his boat, even if he has to sell it. It's also a good sign IMO web he emails you a lot of information about the boat, the engine manual, articles etc....


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

We'll, we are off. 100 miles north of sacramento. Something on my dinghy on the roof is starting to make an unnerving noise. 

I'm going to see the contest tomorrow and hopefully the clipper. Our friend Philzy was nice enough to photograph the Taipan in SoCal and if neither of these bay boats does it for me I will likely go get that one. I think it looks great. 

The contest is described well, but the pictures are a bit ass. I hope it looks better in real life. 

The clipper is beautiful, I've just got to see this weird engine and mizzenmast. He's a supercool guy though


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

northoceanbeach said:


> We'll, we are off. 100 miles north of sacramento. Something on my dinghy on the roof is starting to make an unnerving noise.
> 
> I'm going to see the contest tomorrow and hopefully the clipper. Our friend Philzy was nice enough to photograph the Taipan in SoCal and if neither of these bay boats does it for me I will likely go get that one. I think it looks great.
> 
> ...


Some info for you.
Offshore Yachts Nantucket Clipper Information


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks! Doesn't it just scream sail me to Tahiti? I can see myself on it. It's what small bluewater cruisers should look like. So much more so than Vegas and tritons. To me at least. 

If I got that one I would have to figure out a self steering solution. I don't think a vane would fit with the mizzenmast boom, but maybe. It has a wheel. A wood one. I wonder how that would take a wheel pilot. I've never researched wheel pilots because I never thought I would have a wheel. 

And Alex, finally talked to the cc29 guy. I can see it Saturday along with two other people!


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

northoceanbeach said:


> And Alex, finally talked to the cc29 guy. I can see it Saturday along with two other people!


Cool, I like the C&C 29. It'll be a lot more comfortable (room wise) and probably better built than the Taipan. It'll certainly be faster. It may not be as comfortable on big oceans however.


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## Philzy3985 (Oct 20, 2012)

The Nantucket Clipper certainly seeems like a better cruiser than the others so far. You might have to get a second water tank or, if you prefer not to use/drink the tank water you just pack more gallons of fresh water from the store for trips.

That clipper, having the steps up the mast, the shape and everything, seems like a great boat for what you plan on doing - the only thing is that a 32 footer will mean 4 more feet of 'price per foot' spaces that you stay in. However, I think the extra size on the inside and the deck for whatever you can store will be worth it.

Good luck!


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

northoceanbeach said:


> Would it be a good move or bad to purchase this ya'll. I've only sailed sloops, never a ya'll. It's freaking gorgeous though. I had never heard of a Nantucket Clipper before. Supposedly they work well in light winds with just the mizzen and partially furled jib. It also has tanbark sails. Besides the Ya'll factor, the other thing that is either good or bad is a Sabb variable prop engine. You know I want a good engine that works, and I've read some people love these. Thoughts? I included a photo because you have to see this boat to really want it. I posted a 'want' ad on craigslist and this guy responded. But when he sent me pictures I was blown away.


The work well in light winds with mizzen and partially furled jib is nonsense. In light winds you need all the sail area you can muster and unless you are on something close to a beam reach various parts of a divided rig get in the way of each other. The jib and mizzen, often called a 'jib and jigger' works well in somewhat stronger conditions but one reason that people leave the main down is because of interference in the sails. Also it is an English boat (I had never heard of it) and that suggests that it has a relatively small rig compared to a boat designed for most of North America.

Not a fan of the galley along one side of the cabin. Imagine cooking there with the boat heeling 25 or 30° and bouncing. Can you brace well? Will the sink drain (probably not on one tack).

I read the review you provided and the reviewer thought the quarter berth might be hard to get into and out of. Would this be your sea berth or just a storage location? If you don't sleep there do you need to leave the dinette in the down position while at sea? Note that you are unlikely to be sleeping in the V-berth unless conditions are really benign.

I would really check out parts availability for the engine. It could be a great little engine but if you can't find parts you are screwed. Choose about four parts that you are likely to need that are not generic and go online and see how easy it would be to buy them.

My reaction, not knowing the design or the particulars of this boat, is that a split rig in this size boat makes little sense, if you want a vane (an excellent idea to my mind) can it work, and is the interior set up for long distance sailing.


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

northoceanbeach said:


> Would it be a good move or bad to purchase this ya'll. I've only sailed sloops, never a ya'll. It's freaking gorgeous though. I had never heard of a Nantucket Clipper before. Supposedly they work well in light winds with just the mizzen and partially furled jib. It also has tanbark sails. Besides the Ya'll factor, the other thing that is either good or bad is a Sabb variable prop engine. You know I want a good engine that works, and I've read some people love these. Thoughts? I included a photo because you have to see this boat to really want it. I posted a 'want' ad on craigslist and this guy responded. But when he sent me pictures I was blown away.


Well if you're willing to entertain more than one mast, may I introduce you to the Fuji 32 ketch? I love ketches and you will too. Once you've owned one, you can't go back. 

The fuji is well made and looks great. The steering gear is massive, and generally things are well/over built.

1975 Fuji 35 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
1977 Fuji Yacht Builders Fuji 32, Mariner 32 Sail Boat For Sale

MedSailor


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

MedSailor said:


> 1977 Fuji Yacht Builders Fuji 32, Mariner 32 Sail Boat For Sale
> 
> MedSailor


Upon further inspection, I see the Fuji 32 has a photo of it on a regular looking trailer pulled by a non-semi truck. If the trailer can be purchased as well that opens up a lot of options. You could truck it past the scary oregon coast for example.

You could buy it for a couple thousand below asking and spend that money on making it look shiny and new on the outside. I know a guy here in Anacortes who can make ancient fiberglass and teak look factory new for a couple thousand dollars. His work is amazing....

MedSailor


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks everybody. 
Med-how dd your summer work out? Did you get everything squared away and are enjoying your new boat I hope?

Thanks Killarney, but unfortunately both the Contest and the clipper were nowhere near what I pictured them being like. I guess new standing rigging means it was new when the boat was built! The turnbuckles were rusted seized! The contest would stay in reerse and the am companionway stairs/engine cover pretty much fell apart when he removed it to show me the engine. Good engine, poor installation. Not a pro job. The sails were supposed to be new north sails but they didn't say north anywhere and weren't new. Not bad, but not new. 
It's super windy here, but really pretty 

That Taipan is looking better by the minute. I hope it looks as good in person. If I don't find anything here this weekend I'll be in LA Monday. 

SoCal must have more boats.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I haven't figured out how to edit my posts with this new mobile sailnet. Sorry I didn't spell check. 

I should add I meant the yawl sails well with jib and jigger in heavy winds. I don't know why I said light.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm not expecting too much am I? For 15-20 I can get a super nice and clean 30 foot boat right? I'm slightly discouraged that the cape dory is gone, the pacific seacraft 25 sold yesterday, even though it was too small for me. Rocket, the Santana 35 sold. I don't have many on my list in the Bay that look good. I know they are here, I'm just not finding them. The two today were quite disappointing. Why would people say they had new standing rigging and it's rusty?

There some in LA that look good. I just worry that I will drive all that way and they won't be good in person. Philzy took pictures, good pictures I the Taipan, and it looked very close to what I want. It may be smaller that no picture but it looks nice. 

I had heard that SF was the best place on the west coast to get a boat, and it's still early, but so far Seattle to Vancouver had a better selection. 

Tomorrow there is a Cal 30 with supposed new rigging and sails and other good stuff. Plus the CC29, although he has people coming at 9 and 11. It may be one by the time I get there, and I don't want to fight people for it. We shall see.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

northoceanbeach said:


> I should add I meant the yawl sails well with jib and jigger in heavy winds. I don't know why I said light.


Well, that might apply to most ketches... As for most yawls, maybe not so much... Do you suppose there might be any particular reason why no production boatbuilder has offered a yawl rig in, what, the last 40 years or so? Why they seemed to suddenly fall out of favor as soon as the old CCA Rule era came to an end?



Mind you, there's nothing _wrong_ with a yawl rig, per se. There is certainly no rig more beautiful, to many an eye, and the ability to set a mizzen staysail on certain points of sail is a huge factor, the reason for their success as a rule-beater back in the day... Just seems to me, on the size of boat you're looking for, a yawl represents needless complexity, and seems more of an affectation, than anything else... This coming from someone, however, who has only sailed a 40-footer so rigged, and never a smaller version... 

Windvane self-steering seems to be a high priority for you... You do realize that a yawl will likely complicate or limit your options regarding vanes significantly, right?


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

northoceanbeach said:


> I'm not expecting too much am I? For 15-20 I can get a super nice and clean 30 foot boat right?


Pricing depends heavily on the market. In Seattle 15-20 would get you a solid 30 footer, but not one that is "super nice and clean". It should get you some mix of new-condition standing rigging, engine, sails, running rigging, and interior but it probably won't get you all of those things.

A "super nice and clean" 30 footer from a middle/upper end manufacturer is more like 20-30 depending on how exactly the boat is equipped.

However for 5-15 you can get a workable 30 footer that has an older engine with a mixed reputation (like an Atomic 4), a good hull, and the sails are probably not so great.

<5k gets you a 30 footer boat with no engine but good bones.

For some specific examples a Yankee 30 with good bones, brand new Beta engine, new interior and canvas, 10 year old standing rigging, fairly modern electronics, max-prop, but older sails, dodger, and running rigging was in that 15-20 price range.

A very dirty Ranger 29 with no engine, no sails, but good bones and lots of spare parts was under $1000.

My Pearson with a very good engine, interior, and general condition, a good ownership and maintenance history, moderately old running rigging and standing rigging, older but still strong (though not raceable) sails, very good canvas was 20-25. It is also 15 years newer than the others.

mid-70s Islander 30 with hank-on jib, older sails, Atomic 4, under 10k.

Late 80s CS30 in excellent condition with recent sails: lower 30s (and it sold pretty quickly... I thought it seemed overpriced but in retrospect it was probably a good deal).

C&C 30 -- newer Yanmar engine, middle of life on everything else, lots of "creative" owner enhancements (like replacement cabinets in the galley, weird anchor locker): upper teens.

Pricing is sensitive, there are two boats on the Seattle market in this price range that both need more extensive refit work than the sellers want to admit. They've both been for sale for at least 2 years now (I think one has been for sale for 4 years) and would have sold long ago if the sellers listed them for 5-10k less. Considering moorage in this area for a 30' boat runs about $3-4k per year they are losing money at this point.

All of these prices are from the last couple of years and almost all are sale prices, not listed prices.

The boat market is highly regional and it appears that pricing in the Chesapeake would be about 5k lower. I don't know pricing in California at all.


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## Tenoch (Sep 28, 2012)

Alex W said:


> P
> For some specific examples a Yankee 30 with good bones, brand new Beta engine, new interior and canvas, 10 year old standing rigging, fairly modern electronics, max-prop, but older sails, dodger, and running rigging was in that 15-20 price range.


I'm a big fan of the Yankee 30. If you can find one like this for around 12k you'd really be on to something. (not that 15-20 is bad...but at 12 you would get one hell of a deal).


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

northoceanbeach said:


> Thanks everybody.
> Med-how dd your summer work out? Did you get everything squared away and are enjoying your new boat I hope?


Well not exactly.... The boat remains in the yard, still messed up, though when I took a peek last week work had started. I'm hoping to be in the water for my maiden voyage in 3-6 weeks. So, the summer's gone for me. The new boat's still going to be awesome, but waiting for months to get to play with it is killin' me.

MedSailor


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

I like the Yankee 30 a lot too (two friends have them), and have been recommending it to NOB since his first boat buying thread (this is his third boat). They do have a wide range of prices though, since the boats are all 40+ years old they vary greatly in how much work they need. In Seattle I've seen them listed for $5k (needs engine, sails, interior) up to $25k (new engine, new sails, recently refinished).

There is something pretty great about the hull design (and heavy displacement) that makes it point well, comfortable in big waves (they break around it more than having the hull pound over it like more modern designs), reasonable in light air and fast in heavy air. It is a lot of the best of a full keel and fin keel boat all in 30'. The interior is a little small compared to more modern 30 footers, but it's still very comfortable below for 1 or 2.

There is almost always at least one for sale in Seattle at any given time.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

MedSailor said:


> Well not exactly.... The boat remains in the yard, still messed up, though when I took a peek last week work had started. I'm hoping to be in the water for my maiden voyage in 3-6 weeks. So, the summer's gone for me. The new boat's still going to be awesome, but waiting for months to get to play with it is killin' me.
> 
> MedSailor


So.....we're not too different are we? Both lost summer, both with hopefully a grew first sail on a new boat in the near future. I'll race you to it. We'll see who gets sailing _successfully_ first. Loser posts a pic sailing in speedos, or you can just post yourself chillin' in your hot tub giving everyone the finger

I wonder. Now, admittedly, both boats yesterday were pretty run down. But I do just expect something all refit. I might be wrong. I see them listed, but they are gone before I get there. Of course, I was in Oregon, and now I am here, so when they are listed, I can jump on it if need be.

Besides the Taipan, there are a handful listed in SoCal, including a really nice looking Catalina 30. HOWEVER, the Cape Dory guy, whom I thought had sold the boat, posted pictures and relished and emailed me 30 minutes ago. I just need to get hum to call me, because I think this one will be as described, and it is pretty close to the ideal I am looking for, with the benefit of better future resale, than stranger boats like Taipan. Here's to sweat in' by the phone at Starbucks hoping he call today.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Let's not forget, there was an old man selling a Yankee 30 with a brand new wind vane, and all sorts of other good stuff, for $8500, that sold in a day. I am still smarting about that one. And while it was hard to leave my girlfriend and dog, I wasn't near ready at that point. He listed it while I was still in Washington if I remember right. Still hard to have missed.

Someone on here make the CD28 guy call me. Threaten him or something.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Here is the one I want. New Beta under Warranty? heck yeah. He still hasn't called, for those of you riveted to your seats.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/boa/4655333032.html


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

northoceanbeach said:


> Here is the one I want. New Beta under Warranty? heck yeah. He still hasn't called, for those of you riveted to your seats.
> 
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/boa/4655333032.html


Have you called him lately. 408-821-8070 its his cell number
Here's something to consider in making an offer Cape Dory - 1981- 28 ft sloop - PandaHi 
Don't know if same boat but definitely same seller


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

northoceanbeach said:


> Here is the one I want. New Beta under Warranty? heck yeah. He still hasn't called, for those of you riveted to your seats.
> 
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/boa/4655333032.html


That looks like a good one for you. Clean, crispy, shiny, and solid with a new motor. Nice pick.

Didn't like the Fuji Ketch?

As for the friendly wager, I'll have to pass. You have money in hand and now know what you want. I expect you'll be owning a sweet craigslist bargain and sailing in days. Besides, they don't make speedos in my size outside of Africa.... 

MedSailor


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

Don't get me wrong, I really want you to find a nice boat at a bargain price. But the one clear message the comes from this thread is not to believe anything you see in a listing until you've actually seen the boat. Pictures are almost always a "best of" collection from the entire time the person has owned the boat, and rarely reflect the large effects of a few years of neglect.

You seem to get too attached to boats that you've never seen based on the web listing. You need to stay a little more skeptical until you've seen these boats.

If the CD was sold and then fell through, there's probably a reason, and it very well might be a failed survey.

Be careful. You're really bottom feeding by going after ebay and Craigslist boats. Yes, people do occasionally find a diamond in the rough, but more often than not it's just a piece of mold.

I haven't shopped for boats in 5 years, and I'm in a different geographical location. But every one of the 30 footers I saw in the $15-20k range was moldy junk. Maybe you'll get lucky. I hope for your sake that you do.

Meanwhile, try to restrain yourself from typing things like "That boat looks great!" based on listing pictures. You just going to create a lot of unwarranted hype and speculation.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

NOB,
Why aren't you all over the Fuji mariner 32?
John


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

TakeFive said:


> Don't get me wrong, I really want you to find a nice boat at a bargain price. But the one clear message the comes from this thread is not to believe anything you see in a listing until you've actually seen the boat. Pictures are almost always a "best of" collection from the entire time the person has owned the boat, and rarely reflect the large effects of a few years of neglect.
> 
> You seem to get too attached to boats that you've never seen based on the web listing. You need to stay a little more skeptical until you've seen these boats.
> 
> ...


It's kind of like online dating. 

MedSailor


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

That's the same cape dory from 2011. Hmm. I wonder why he overhauled the diesel and then put in a Beta? He won't answer his phone anyways. 

I'm not checking ebay but craigslist yes. What is a better way to ind a good boat?

Maybe im wrong but outside the engine, aren't they relatively easy to survey? 

I'll take your advice to heart though, and not get to into a boat before I see it. Definetly solid advice.


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## Alex W (Nov 1, 2012)

northoceanbeach said:


> I'm not checking ebay but craigslist yes. What is a better way to ind a good boat?


At your price range you should also be looking at boats sold through a broker (using Yachtworld). Brokerage boats rarely exist below 15k, but at 20k they become a lot more common. Selling a boat is a lot of annoying work, so a lot of sellers do prefer to sell through a broker, even if it eats 10% of the selling price.

You should be looking at boats up to around $30k just to understand what differences you can expect for a little more money.

Once at a marina walk the docks and look at every boat that you can see that is for sale. If you are looking at a broker boat ask what else is similar and at the marina. Not every boat that is for sale is posted on Craigslist. Sometimes ads expire and the seller forgets to relist it. If nothing else you'll get to see samples of boat models that you've been considering.

I find the online ads nearly useless except to tell me what might be interesting.



northoceanbeach said:


> Maybe im wrong but outside the engine, aren't they relatively easy to survey?


I don't think so. The surveyor should have more experience than I do at inspecting for things like a soggy deck. They also don't care if I buy the boat or not, so they can be impartial.


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## drosymor (Aug 6, 2014)

I'm with Alex W on this. I looked at many boats on Yachtworld. Many of them looked beautiful in the ads. Like you, I was a long way from the docks so I could not just wander around. I asked a broker to find me a boat based on how I would use it. She told me the ones that I was interested in that were junk and the ones that were good. I put an offer on mine before she had the chance to get it into yacht world. For heavens sake, do not fall in love with the pictures. That can lead to instant unhappiness.

Good hunting. Paul


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Ok, I saw the Cape Dory in person and it's fantastic. This is what I am looking for. He had a big folder of receipts for everything, that was all professionally done.

GOOD:
New Beta 20hp, professionally installed. Using it today, I could immediately tell the difference between this one and the one I saw the other day, where they did not pro install it. He showed me the receipt. Beyond expensive. Two years and one month left on the warranty. This will really help me with my nervousness about never having an inboard, and my other thread scared of inboards. I can learn on a nice new one.

New four bladed Vari-prop

big foredeck, I might not even have to deflate my dinghy

A LOT of ventilation. Two hatches, eight bronze portholes

New sunbrella interior

New head and holding tank

pretty new sails. they feel new

all new rewiring, shore power, batteries, control panel, charger

redone brightwork interior

pretty new ropes, two years-ish 

super nice boat, that you could tell a person with money had professionals do things, when they needed to be done.

BAD:
the bowsprit has some rot at the end

took out alcohol stove, no stove

painted over the teak bulwarks, handrails outside, toenail, etc. for easy maintenance.

only electronics are lights, depth, speed and VHF


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

Looks like a good vessel for you to develop into a cruising boat. You'll be happy they painted over the teak, no varnish hassles for you. Add your own idea of electronics as you go. Keep your eyes open for a stove....


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

I used a coleman camping stove and an $8 adapter to run it off a regular propane bottle. Lived aboard and cruised full time with this setup until I found a used RV stove to put in. It worked great except for lack of an oven. 

MedSailor


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

northoceanbeach said:


> ...
> 
> GOOD:
> New Beta 20hp, professionally installed. Using it today, I could immediately tell the difference between this one and the one I saw the other day, where they did not pro install it. He showed me the receipt. Beyond expensive. Two years and one month left on the warranty. This will really help me with my nervousness about never having an inboard, and my other thread scared of inboards. I can learn on a nice new one.
> ...


I have a new Beta so I think as long as you maintain it properly you should be ok, but doublecheck that the warranty will transfer if the boat is sold. If it doesn't say so on the paperwork, I'd give them a call. I've had very good experiences talking to them directly.


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## newhaul (Feb 19, 2010)

Ihere ya go stoves RV propane stove + oven here's another option and before everyone jumps on me the company was contacted and the only reason for being outdoor only is you would have to make your own gimbaled mounts Camp Chef Outdoor Camp Oven And Stove


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## MedSailor (Mar 30, 2008)

northoceanbeach said:


> Ok, I saw the Cape Dory in person and it's fantastic. This is what I am looking for. He had a big folder of receipts for everything, that was all professionally done.
> 
> GOOD:
> New Beta 20hp, professionally installed. Using it today, I could immediately tell the difference between this one and the one I saw the other day, where they did not pro install it. He showed me the receipt. Beyond expensive. Two years and one month left on the warranty. This will really help me with my nervousness about never having an inboard, and my other thread scared of inboards. I can learn on a nice new one.
> ...


Looks like the good outweigh the bad. Don't worry about the painted teak. You didn't have any exterior teak on your last boat, but you had a lot of nice paint. Same on this boat. Don't tell anyone what's under the nice paint an you won't be scolded for painting teak, which is imminently practical in my mind but is apparently one of the 7 deadly sins. 

Rot in the bowsprit may need to be fixed right away or not. Is it forward or aft of the Kranz fitting (that's the collar all the stays are attached to). If it's forward, it's not load bearing, but the spirit will have to come off eventually and be addressed by a wooden boat shop. Looks small enough that it would come off without much hassle.

How's the wiring? Rats nest of smoldering fire hazard or clean and nice?

How come you haven't bought her yet? 

MedSailor


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## Shinook (Jul 13, 2012)

MedSailor said:


> How's the wiring? Rats nest of smoldering fire hazard or clean and nice?


Cape Dory made wonderful boats and did many things well, wiring wasn't one of them. Fortunately, the smaller boats are simple enough that it's not a huge deal, but some of the wiring in ours was pretty bad.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

All new wiring and electrical. New batteries. New ship to shore, inverter, plugs, panels

Not much for cool electronic toys though

Med_I'm going to today. I am waiting for the sun to burn off the morning fog, which it just did, so I can jump in the water and not get too cold.


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## TakeFive (Oct 22, 2009)

northoceanbeach said:


> All new wiring and electrical. New batteries. New ship to shore, inverter, plugs, panels
> 
> Not much for cool electronic toys though
> 
> Med_I'm going to today. I am waiting for the sun to burn off the morning fog, which it just did, so I can jump in the water and not get too cold.


Sounds like you should run, not walk, and go buy it.

On a boat that age, electronics are almost always broken or hopelessly obsolete anyway. So if you have working depth, speed, and VHF, you've got all the basics to build on. Go get yourself a handheld GPS, or tablet with chartplotter software (I have a Miix2 8" with OpenCPN), and you're good to go until you want radar, wind, and other fancy stuff.


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## Tenoch (Sep 28, 2012)

Good on ya. Cape Dory's are beautiful.


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## northoceanbeach (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks. This time it's official, not like my last false alarm. The search is over.


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

Congratulations. Cape Dorys are classics and should take you where ever you want to go. Have fun fitting it out. The stove deal might be a blessing in disguise. Now you can pick what you want and need.
Happy sails!
John


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