# Gas or electric?



## greg.rosine (Feb 23, 2018)

We have a small inflatable dinghy. We have only used it a couple of times to go to shore. This summer we will be at anchor a great deal and would like to get a small outboard just to get back and forth to shore. I am hesitant to have gasoline on board, but there is a price premium for an electric. How do you safely store gasoline on board? Gas or electric?


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## Gladrags1 (Apr 9, 2003)

Ok, how would you recharge electric? How long would it take?

Choose a small gas outboard less than 5hp, like a 3.5 that has forward and nuetral gears and an internal tank. Keep a small 1-2 gallon jug of gas in cockpit.

Or choose a propane outboard. Tohatsu makes a great little 5 hours with forward, nuetral, and reverse. Get a fiberglass propane tank and strap it down in dink.

Do you tow dink or put in Davits or on deck? 

I don't think electric is there yet.

Tod


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## greg.rosine (Feb 23, 2018)

We both tow and keep on deck. No davits. 


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Our dink has a locker where we can keep a spare gallon tank. OB is 4 stroke so we don't mix with oil. When we refuel we put the 1 gallon into the main 3 gallon tank and then top up both. I have stored a small tank in the aft propane locker. The dink is normally towed because it's a RIB and doesn't stow on board and we don't have davits either.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

My Honda Four Stroke went to the bottom of the harbor during Superstorm Sandy. I used a grappling hook and retrieved it. But I ended up recycling most of it:
https://biankablog.blogspot.com/2015/04/a-little-more-recycling.html

I then went with an Electric Paddle outboard which works well for most of my needs. It's extremely light and portable. 





I also recently purchased an Electric Carry a little more robust power and Lithium battery for when I need it. I charge both on board via solar panels powering an inverter or if I am running the Honda 2000 generator. 





I tend to use the Electric Paddle more because it is so light and works well with my 8 foot Portabote. But, both store easily on board and are much lighter than the gas Honda outboard and I don't worry about fluids leaking in side the boat.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

The issue with electric if you are at anchor for extended periods is charging. Unless you have lots of solar or a generator, it's not going to work. Lots of outboard powered sailboats out there. Gas on a sailboat is not the big deal you are making it.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Another approach is to have a small enough and powerful enough battery that you can take home and put of a charger.... Or one at your marina... or maybe your mother ship. The range of these small batts is not very good. You may need several to swap out while the others are recharging.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

The only electric OB that has a history of standing up to regular salt water use is the Torqeedo. The price for the smallest is down to $ 1700 which is reasonable but still about double the smallest Tohatsu 2.5 4 st and a used small 2 st will be about $ 400.

I would be happy to have a petrol OB on the rail during passage and a small container of petrol either in a locker or lashed to the pushpit. I have done this for 15 years now.


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## Damon Gannon (Mar 3, 2017)

Do you have a propane galley stove (as do most cruising boats)? If so, you already have a much more dangerous substance than gasoline aboard your boat. Just use caution and common sense. Only carry as much fuel as you need and secure it on deck, in a location where any spillage will not find its way to the bilge.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

greg.rosine said:


> How do you safely store gasoline on board?


You shouldn't get too stupid about safety. 
You can stay at home or go have a life. 
Some fear gasoline, some fear propane, some fear gangsters, some fear police, some fear the water.

Haw many cars do you see driving down the street suddenly exploding because they run on gas?

Really?

The vast, vast majority of boat people have gasoline outboards. I'm not saying be a sheep and follow, but I am saying they are right.

Get gas. Enjoy your life ?


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## paulinnanaimo (Dec 3, 2016)

I have a gas motor in our boat Mark and so I agree with you mostly but an automobile is not like a boat, any gas fumes will not collect in the bilge.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I used an electric trolling type of motor as my outboard for many years. I was basically using it to go on short trips between shore and my mooring, and I was not full-time on board, so I could easily recharge the batter. It worked great. 

When we got into more long-term cruising I needed something with more range. Speed and sprint power is not very important to me, but range and ease of refuelling (or recharging) is. 

I considered a propane OB, but I’d heard too many negative reviews about problems in cold water (where I usually cruise). I also looked long and hard at the Torqueedo electric engines. I tested one on my 10’ portabote. It was great. Lots of power. Easy to use. But it just didn’t have the range I wanted. Recharging would always be an issue as a full-timer, and cost was very high.

In the end went with a small outboard. My 3.5 hp 4-stroke is not much heavier than an electric, is very efficient on low-moderate throttle, and it’s impossible to beat the energy density of gasoline. Has an internal tank. And the cost was less than 1/2 of the Torqueedo.

Mike, I’ve not heard of the EP Carry (looks like the Paddle is no longer sold?). Looks good, but still doesn’t seem to have the range I want. And the cost is still twice high. I’d love to switch though, once battery technology improves enough.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

greg.rosine said:


> How do you safely store gasoline on board? /QUOTE]
> 
> I have 2 gasoline containers. One is a 1-gal container that is my normal use container and sits in my cockpit bucket that is tied to the stern rail (a handy bucket is always worth having around) and when underway I put it in the dinghy that is on the davits. My larger container is strapped to the top of the stern locker that is back behind the cockpit.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> Get gas. Enjoy your life 🙂


That can be your slogan when you retire from cruising and open a restaurant.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

MarkofSeaLife said:


> You shouldn't get too stupid about safety.
> You can stay at home or go have a life.
> Some fear gasoline, some fear propane, some fear gangsters, some fear police, some fear the water.
> 
> ...


Just get the best GAS....?....natural gas.

To me it's not about the safety issue....both gas and propane both need to be treated with proper safety

But who wants that varnish a byproduct of ethanol which is 10% of US gas , which accumulates on the inside of your gas powered outboard. It is a fact that needs dealing with, . Propane burns more efficiently..., produces no varnish in the carberator, is lighter to carry on the dink


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

chef2sail said:


> ...Propane burns more efficiently..., produces no varnish in the carberator, is lighter to carry on the dink


Downsides are lower energy density vs gasoline, and tougher to use in cold conditions. Although maybe this latter issue has improved since the early days of these outboard.

Anyone have any current experience of operating in cold areas/waters?


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## greg.rosine (Feb 23, 2018)

Mike - How do you store your gasoline on board your boat?


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

greg.rosine said:


> Mike - How do you store your gasoline on board your boat?


I use a ~10 litre (~2.5 gallon) jerry can as the main storage. This stays on deck, lashed to my port side shroud chainplates, along with any spare diesel jerry cans.

I carry a small (~5 litre) jerry in the portabote when in use. Otherwise this gets stored in the cockpit, or tied down in the sail locker when we're underway.

And the outboard has its own small internal tank as well.

I also carry a 1000 watt gasoline generator, so the gas gets used for this as well.


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## contrarian (Sep 14, 2011)

I've got a 3.5 two stroke and it's not very finicky and its light but it is on the loud side, smelly and not quite enough power . I think it's time to move up to a Honda 5hp four stroke. I would have gotten the Yamaha but they discontinued the 5 horse. Gas is definitely the way to go.


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

I bought my 2 hp Honda in 2005, I run the gas out of carb before long periods of storage.


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## HUGOSALT (Jun 15, 2004)

I think Mike in first 2 sentences of post #12 summed up very nicely.
Electric ok if...
"small inflatable" which you will not load up to max.
"use just to go back and forth to shore"
"hesitant about gas on board"
If above is the case then a small electric trolling motor will do.
I use my Minn Kota Rip Tide trolling motor, alternating 2- 35 ah AGMs that I charge on a solar panel
together with a occasional charge from 110 charger.
Ok for me on several 2-3 week cruises a season. Used in protected water and you go SLOW.
On my 30 fter weight and storage are factors. 
If you are cruising, want to go further/faster in exposed water, loaded with crew/provisions,
then see Mikes 2nd sentence and go with gas outboard.


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## Grith (Feb 4, 2019)

I have a torqeedo 1003 which acts as both my secondary auxiliary on my 28 foot yacht and demounts to be my dingy motor. It will push my yacht up to 5 knots but has only 30 minutes power at that setting. Much more efficient at 3 knots lasting at least a couple of hours. As my yacht has a Diesel engine with a 150 amp alternator I have the surplus electric power for recharging so can avoid having petrol on board as well. Great for pushing the yacht in low wind conditions without the noise. Also has both tiller throttle unit for the dingy but uses a remote throttle on the centre console without this fitted when powering the yacht. Regards Graeme


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

MikeOReilly said:


> Mike, I've not heard of the EP Carry (looks like the Paddle is no longer sold?). Looks good, but still doesn't seem to have the range I want. And the cost is still twice high. I'd love to switch though, once battery technology improves enough.


Yes I think the Electric Paddle is out of production but, being 8 lbs lighter than my 16 lb EP Carry it is still my go to motor for getting back an forth to the mooring. I can pick it up with one hand could never do that with my 3HP Honda. It also was always a struggle to make sure I did not drop it over the side of the dingy while installing it. Zero maintenance on both electric motors too. Where as the Honda had the gas/oil/zinc issues. Another fellow sailor still has her Honda 3HP four stroke and I can hear her motoring halfway across the harbor. Nice thing about electric including the one powering my 30 foot sailboat is how quiet it is which is great for gunk holing and watching nature. As far as range an extra battery or two should take care of that if you need more. Batteries are a lot less bulky than a 6 gallon gas tank too. Charging off of solar and wind on the boat means never going to the gas dock. Electric works for me though YMMV.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

If you can be POSITIVE you will only be using the dinghy for short runs in protected waters, an electric motor will work. However, I run into situations each summer where that would not work. Think a round trip from the anchorage in the Great Salt Pond at Block Island. When the wind kicks up, that can be an exciting trip in a small dinghy! My old 2hp 2-stoke Yamaha/Mariner is only 22 lbs and I use less than a gallon of gas on a typical 2-3 week cruise.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I have noticed the electric outboards every now and then down here. Nice, shiny and compact. Then a few weeks later they are replaced by a gas one.
Having talked to a few owners the consensus seems to be that they really do not have the power or electric reserves to get from an anchorage relatively far out from the dock in a 15 to 20-knot breeze, several times a day. They also have some trouble keeping the battery charged w/o a genset and a higher output battery charger.
One of the first things many first time cruisers find when they get down here is that there are quite a few anchorages that are distant enough from the dinghy dock that it can be a pretty long, wet ride in and/or out with a small low power OB. They see others zipping along on a plane not getting as wet and (especially in the rain) not getting themselves and their groceries quite as sopped. So, they move up a few hp and their dinghy rides become a lot shorter and more comfortable.
Of course, none of this may be relevant to the OP's needs, but I just thought I'd put it out there for potential cruisers considering and electric OB or underpowering their dink.


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## Don L (Aug 8, 2008)

Gasoline is easy to find and the outboard will run a long time on a tank and it's easy to carry an extra gal in the dink with you. Yes the stuff separates, but if you carry a screwdriver you can drain the carb in 1 minute (it's getting routine)

Propane for a cruiser isn't always easy to get. That's why we carry an extra tank because it may be weeks to get to a place where you can get a refill.

Electric, well guess it all depends how long a charge will last and what it takes to have extra in the dink.


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## MarkofSeaLife (Nov 7, 2010)

capta said:


> a pretty long, wet ride in and/or out with a small low power OB.


Ahhhh, yes. Cant emphasis that too much. The faster a dink goes the further the spray is pushed outboard. Under planing speed you get saturated... more importantly the wifey up the front gets wet and *angry*. As the anchorages are often to leward of the shore its inbound to dinner when you're nicely dressed so you start your night looking like a washed up ships rat (with cold salty damp undies)

I now have an 18hp Tohatsu 2 stroke on my 9.5 ft dinghy. In the Caribbean/Pacific the best engine is the Yamaha 15hp 2 stroke.

One point about long term cruising with a 6hp. It can be OK, but as soon as theres growth on the bottom it slows and you need to clean it. The big OBs still plane with more growth so you dont have to clean as often 

Mark


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## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

> Under planing speed you get saturated... more importantly the wifey up the front gets wet and *angry*.


Only once, after that she said "Call the shore boat you cheap SOB".


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

mbianka said:


> Yes I think the Electric Paddle is out of production but, being 8 lbs lighter than my 16 lb EP Carry it is still my go to motor for getting back an forth to the mooring. I can pick it up with one hand could never do that with my 3HP Honda. It also was always a struggle to make sure I did not drop it over the side of the dingy while installing it. Zero maintenance on both electric motors too. Where as the Honda had the gas/oil/zinc issues. Another fellow sailor still has her Honda 3HP four stroke and I can hear her motoring halfway across the harbor. Nice thing about electric including the one powering my 30 foot sailboat is how quiet it is which is great for gunk holing and watching nature. As far as range an extra battery or two should take care of that if you need more. Batteries are a lot less bulky than a 6 gallon gas tank too. Charging off of solar and wind on the boat means never going to the gas dock. Electric works for me though YMMV.


Oh, I love the idea of going electric. There are some great advantages, to be sure. Weight is one thing (although not a big difference between my small 3.5 hp), and I would love to have quieter engine. For me, it really comes down to range and charging. Cost is also a factor.

I'm on the boat full-time for about 1/2 the year. When we're on the boat we're mostly away from a dock. Solar and wind maintains my battery bank 95% of the time. But I just don't think I could add in a couple of 24 volt (can't find the Ah rating) lithium batteries and still avoid using dino-juice (gas or diesel generator) as much.

Cost is also significantly higher, especially one you start adding extra batteries at $460 a pop. To have any chance of making it work for me I'd probably want at least 3 batteries, maybe four. Now the price is up to over $3k - that's a pretty steep premium to pay.

Like I say, I love the idea of going electric. I were only taking short trips, and could easily charge off the domestic AC grid (so not full time on board), then I'd go back to electric. But I just don't think it's a viable option for most full-time cruisers.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

JimsCAL said:


> If you can be POSITIVE you will only be using the dinghy for short runs in protected waters, an electric motor will work. However, I run into situations each summer where that would not work. Think a round trip from the anchorage in the Great Salt Pond at Block Island. When the wind kicks up, that can be an exciting trip in a small dinghy! My old 2hp 2-stoke Yamaha/Mariner is only 22 lbs and I use less than a gallon of gas on a typical 2-3 week cruise.


Actually brisk winds is one of the reasons I went with the Electric Paddle. I use to row out to the mooring but, there were days when the winds picked up to 20 knots or more on the nose when I was not sure I would make it to the dock. I could always rig my Honda outboard on the dingy. Putting on the 3HP Honda was a PITA in such conditions. When it went to the bottom during superstorm Sandy the point was moot. I don't hesitate with the lightweight electric. Easily gets me back in a blow. True I won't win any races but, I can take it off I put it in the car with one hand if I plan to spend a few days on land the same when I get back to the boat.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

MikeOReilly said:


> Oh, I love the idea of going electric. There are some great advantages, to be sure. Weight is one thing (although not a big difference between my small 3.5 hp), and I would love to have quieter engine. For me, it really comes down to range and charging. Cost is also a factor.
> 
> I'm on the boat full-time for about 1/2 the year. When we're on the boat we're mostly away from a dock. Solar and wind maintains my battery bank 95% of the time. But I just don't think I could add in a couple of 24 volt (can't find the Ah rating) lithium batteries and still avoid using dino-juice (gas or diesel generator) as much.
> 
> ...


Totally understand. True the cost is higher but, your not dealing with messy and/or explosive fluids. Clogged carborators, broken pull cords or the chance of smashing the wife in the face with the pull cord when starting.  Speaking of the wife it's much easier for her too. She just needs to to turn the key and she's off. I get by with one battery pack which does about six round trips to the dock. Though it's easy enough to disconnect the battery and bring it on board to charge with a 300 watt 12 volt inverter too.


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

capttb said:


> Only once, after that she said "Call the shore boat you cheap SOB".


Ouch!


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## cpt_757 (Sep 16, 2014)

greg.rosine said:


> We have a small inflatable dinghy. We have only used it a couple of times to go to shore. This summer we will be at anchor a great deal and would like to get a small outboard just to get back and forth to shore. I am hesitant to have gasoline on board, but there is a price premium for an electric. How do you safely store gasoline on board? Gas or electric?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I use Torqeedo 1003 for 9ft Zodiac inflatable.
I like it very much, very handy, lighter than 2.5HP gas engine and no need have a tank. Battery drains more than I expected but it depends on how fast you go.
Usually I use about 30 to 40% moving around marina. I am thinking add solar panel.( factory one is expensive but found compatible after market panel on ebay.)


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## ronhughb (Jun 15, 2018)

We had a 55lb thrust electric motor that would be OK in calm water with no wind but if you had to get anywhere or had a headwind it wouldn't do the job. Also the lead acid battery weighs as much as a small outboard.

We got a 6 HP Tohatsu 4 stroke. Same weight as the battery and with an external tank there is no issue with fuel spilling if you store it below. The external tank is just like a small jerry can and can be kept up top. There is no weight difference between 4,5, or 6HP 58 lbs....a large deep cell battery is 59 lbs. The weight of outboards goes up when they are two cylinder i.e. 9HP and up.

No comparison if you have to get somewhere.


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## Calmwater (Aug 5, 2018)

To be practical, and as much as I love electric power and hate gas, as you're planning on mooring, I'd go with a small 2.5-4Hp gas. Charging from your boat's inverter/battery will be slow and may limit you when you really need your dinghy. 
Safety is a legitimate concern. Keep no more than a gallon on board, this can probably cover you for the entire season - away from the cockpit in a well ventilated area. If necessary, add a flammable/no smoking sign where you store it.



greg.rosine said:


> We have a small inflatable dinghy. We have only used it a couple of times to go to shore. This summer we will be at anchor a great deal and would like to get a small outboard just to get back and forth to shore. I am hesitant to have gasoline on board, but there is a price premium for an electric. How do you safely store gasoline on board? Gas or electric?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

I have a trolling motor which is not used... and only good for calm and short runs. Of course it's light. Charging the small AGM batt is a PITA. We typically anchor out and away in the quietest spot and had to walk the dogs so the options were land the dink on a shore, or some dock... rarely... or go in to a proper floating dock.... there the pooches could jump from the tubes to the dock. We need range, reliability and power to go through chop and wind.

Our 8 hp 4 stroke motor is heavy and uses a separate tank which remains inside the RIB's forward locker/seat. Underway we hoist the motor with using a demountable lifting crane and the motor lives on a bracket on the pushpit. This is an easy one person operation... even easier with two. 

We don't smoke or allow it on board and the only open flames are from the cooker. Fire risk with the gas is very very low. I keep a spare gallon jug of gas in the anchor locker or in the RIB bow locker. No mixing 2 stroke oil so gas tank is only opened when refueling at dockside.

This works best for us. I considered propane but the engine wouldn't start at West Marine so I nixed the sale. OB is regularly serviced and I look for non ethanol gas which is hard to find, but apparently much better.


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Slight thread drift but it has been mentioned before. Getting splashed when going slow. A key factor is the tube size. 

I have a 9 ft Aruba with 17 inch diameter tubes. Some 9 ft dinghies have 15 inch tubes. That extra 2 inches makes a big difference to how dry the ride is. 

Like Mark I have an 18 hp on mine. Riding on the plane is much drier. 

Mind you there comes a time when the chop is such you are airborne too often and your guest starts looking concerned. Time to revert to displacement mode and hand out the dollar plastic ponchos.


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## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

ronhughb said:


> We had a 55lb thrust electric motor that would be OK in calm water with no wind but if you had to get anywhere or had a headwind it wouldn't do the job.


This hasn't been my experience.

I power my Catalina 22 with a 74lb thrust trolling motor, and it goes into a headwind just fine. Minn Kota sizes their props for low-end thrust, not high end speed, so there's plenty of power to drive into wind. I've motored my 2500 pound boat into 20+ knot winds without any issue.

Of course my top speed is about 4 knots, so on the rare occasion that I have to motor any distance it takes for bloody ever.

I have a 50 watt solar panel and a Genasun MPPT controller.


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## HumanErrer (Feb 9, 2019)

I plan on removing the Atomic 4 in my Cal 30 and replacing it with a 10kW brushless motor. Brand new, it'll cost me about $2,800, and I can replace my fuel tank with a second fresh water tank. It also gets rid of fumes, filth, vibrations, and noise from a fossil-fuel engine. Finally, it frees me from worrying about having to find fuel in remote places, and the costs that come with maintenance and fuel.

Of course that means I'll need to have an integrated system of wind/solar/shaft regen to make sure I have sufficient juice, but that doesn't bother me one bit! Solar panels are cheap, I can make a wind generator out of an alternator and some replacement store-bought wind generator blades, and the motor has a shaft regen built-in.

I'll buy a Torqeedo motor for my dinghy as well, tyvm.

:2 boat:


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## Calmwater (Aug 5, 2018)

Kudos for the smartest thing a sailor can do on power propulsion!! I guess you calculated your power/motoring patterns and needs. But for sure, this is the true future!! 
In your case, removing the Atomic death trap from your boat is even smarter. A gas inboard is the most irresponsible thing a sailor can do. You may want to use the gas tank space for extra batteries bank... are you going to consider lithium?



HumanErrer said:


> I plan on removing the Atomic 4 in my Cal 30 and replacing it with a 10kW brushless motor. Brand new, it'll cost me about $2,800, and I can replace my fuel tank with a second fresh water tank. It also gets rid of fumes, filth, vibrations, and noise from a fossil-fuel engine. Finally, it frees me from worrying about having to find fuel in remote places, and the costs that come with maintenance and fuel.
> 
> Of course that means I'll need to have an integrated system of wind/solar/shaft regen to make sure I have sufficient juice, but that doesn't bother me one bit! Solar panels are cheap, I can make a wind generator out of an alternator and some replacement store-bought wind generator blades, and the motor has a shaft regen built-in.
> 
> I'll buy a Torqeedo motor for my dinghy as well, tyvm.


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## SanderO (Jul 12, 2007)

Mike Bianka has done a conversion... he is the go to guy for that on this forum.


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## outbound (Dec 3, 2012)

Very much agree with Capta and Mark. Running a 15hp 2 stroke tohatsu on a 10’ rib. It’s just enough. Not infrequently runs are 1m or longer for supplies, snorkeling grounds or beaches. Current in the Saints. There is no diesel here at all. There is one place for gasoline and it’s a very long hike to be carrying gasoline. Yesterday had 4 adults two big backpacks, groceries, beach stuff and a 1 mile run. No way anything less than the 15hp would do that. Starting Monday there will be a 3’ north swell and 20+kts in here. You’re going to want power and the biggest dinghy you can fit on the boat or you’re on the boat for the next three days.
So my addendums are if you are cruising:
Go with gasoline 
Go with a 2 stroke if you can
Run the carb dry if not used daily 
Keep at least one gallon of gas in a separate container on the rail. (Also keep one gallon of diesel there as you will need it for the racors).


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

I'd go with gas and keep the fuel can stowed above deck. I use a stainless jetty can mounted to the stanchions.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

SanderO said:


> Mike Bianka has done a conversion... he is the go to guy for that on this forum.


Ditto on this. If you're actually serious about doing this, then consult with MBianka. He's done it. He lives it. I've looked the prospect, but can't make the numbers work for the way I cruise, with the boat I have. But he's shown it can be done.


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## HumanErrer (Feb 9, 2019)

Calmwater said:


> Kudos for the smartest thing a sailor can do on power propulsion!! I guess you calculated your power/motoring patterns and needs. But for sure, this is the true future!!
> In your case, removing the Atomic death trap from your boat is even smarter. A gas inboard is the most irresponsible thing a sailor can do. You may want to use the gas tank space for extra batteries bank... are you going to consider lithium?


I've been doing quite a bit of research on this subject over the past couple of days. With a Cal 30, I don't think it'll work because the hull speed (max 6 or 7 knots) pretty much kills any chance of significant regen, even with an OceanVolt ServoProp (which is quite expensive). Combined with not enough real estate on deck for a significant amount of solar panels, this is pretty much a death toll for this idea.

Now if I can fix up the Cal 30 cheaply enough either sell it or trade it for a 40' or better, I might be in business.

As for batteries - yeahhhhhh... Lithium is great, but it's a huge up-front cost! I wouldn't be able to afford that. It's going to have to be gel batteries for me. They seem to be the at the sweet spot of the give and take between affordability and safety.

If only hydrogen was easier to extract from seawater, store, and use...


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## RegisteredUser (Aug 16, 2010)

If you have a set routine and elec fits, fine.
Id need a backpack full of batteries.
Sometimes plans change to and from the boat
Exploring would be too limiting.
I dont like the contsraint
Full or not, i always throw a 2 gal jug of fuel in the dink...you never know


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

HumanErrer said:


> I've been doing quite a bit of research on this subject over the past couple of days. With a Cal 30, I don't think it'll work because the hull speed (max 6 or 7 knots) pretty much kills any chance of significant regen, even with an OceanVolt ServoProp (which is quite expensive). Combined with not enough real estate on deck for a significant amount of solar panels, this is pretty much a death toll for this idea.
> 
> Now if I can fix up the Cal 30 cheaply enough either sell it or trade it for a 40' or better, I might be in business.
> 
> ...


FYI. Regen with Electric Propulsion has nothing to do with hull speed of the boat. Previously I was getting Regen on my 30 Nonsuch when I started hitting speeds around 6 knots. I recently changed controllers in my system and I saw I was starting to get Regen at around 4 knots. Which is very sweet.

I agree with you about Lithium costs. Even ten years after I converted to EP I still don't like the costs and complexity of them. I can re power with AGM's several times before I reach the costs of a new Lithium pack.


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## capnJudd (Jul 18, 2012)

I have a propane stove. (I once had CNG, but had to switch before setting off for the Caribbean, unfortunately.)
There are issues with that fuel, and you have to deal with them. But once you have all the precautions for a propane stove, you already have the precautions you need for adding a propane outboard.

We've been quite happy with our little 2.5 HP Lehr. If it's still hot it starts on the first pull. If it has been an hour since you ran it, it will take 3 pulls. If it has been a day since you ran it, it will take 3 pulls. If it has been a month since you ran it, it will take 3 pulls. If it has been a year since you ran it, it will take 3 pulls. Are you catching the pattern? It has advantages over gasoline. 

And it has further advantages if you already have a tank of propane for your stove... you can switch it with your dinghy tank and thus use each one as emergency backup for the other. You can pour one tank into the other and just take one ashore for refill. Life with diesel and propane is simpler than life with diesel and propane and gasoline.


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## mbianka (Sep 19, 2014)

capnJudd said:


> And it has further advantages if you already have a tank of propane for your stove... you can switch it with your dinghy tank and thus use each one as emergency backup for the other. You can pour one tank into the other and just take one ashore for refill. Life with diesel and propane is simpler than life with diesel and propane and gasoline.


There is something to be said for simplifying fuel use on board. I on the other hand did it a little differently I went with Electric Propulsion and ditched all diesel on board. I still have a small amount of propane and gas. Propane is for cooking but, I only use 1 lb canisters each one lasts me at least two weeks or more. No worries about the aging propane hose springing a leak. The gas is for the Honda 2000 generator which is used for multiple uses including as one part of charging my propulsion bank. When doing so I also am able to charge my 12 volt house bank and now my electric outboards battery. Also occasional tool use. It can also be used to power my Electric Propulsion system whenever extended motoring may be required.


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