# Flags: Who flies what, where, and why?



## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

I guess the answer to, "is it time to move this to a different thread and leave the political scoldings here?", was, "yes", since the politics only seems to be heating up in that thread, so I am taking the liberty of transplanting your questions and my comments in response here instead.



Dfok said:


> without even going into why Transocean working for BP in the American part of the gulf of Mexico flies a Malaysian flag ( another hornet nest to stir?) this flag stuff is Byzantine ( which has a pretty slick flag too).
> This thread got my attention just as I was about to ask who flew what where, and why?
> Images of flying the"quarantine yellow fever" signal flag because it matches my hat can keep me up at night. The last thing I want my flag to do is cause inadvertent offense. Intentional offense is okay though, in moderation.
> You mentioned the skull and crossbones, which has been disneyized and whitewashed to a fair thee well, but I read and remember history and can't get past the rape pillage murder thing, however ironic.
> ...





Dfok said:


> The "its five o'clock somewhere" cocktails burgee just seems so mad men 1962.


Funny that you should mention it; in trying to look into all of this I also happened to learn that the Gin Pennant has a long history as at least a quasi-official naval signal.

On the wikipedia page for "Maritime flags" I found:

"A Gin Pennant means that the wardroom is inviting officers from ships in company to drinks. The origins of the Gin Pennant are uncertain, but it seems to have been used since the 1940s and probably earlier. Originally it was a small green triangular pennant measuring approximately 18 by 9 inches (460 by 230 mm), defaced with a white wine glass, nowadays the gin pennant is a Starboard pennant defaced with a wine or cocktail glass. Its colour, size and position when hoisted were all significant as the aim was for the pennant to be as inconspicuous as possible, thereby having fewer ships sight it and subsequently accept the invitation for drinks. The Gin Pennant is still in regular use by Commonwealth Navies, such as the Royal Australian Navy (RAN). Within the RAN it is common practice, whilst in port, for junior officers of one ship to attempt to raise the Gin Pennant on the halyard of another ship, thereby forcing that ship to put on free drinks for the officers of the ship that managed to raise the pennant. If, however the junior officers are caught raising the pennant, then it is their ship that must put on free drinks within their Wardroom. Usually this practice is restricted to Commonwealth Navies, however in the past, prior to increased force protection, RAN officers have successfully raised the Gin Pennant on a number of units in the USN."

I love the Aussies.

There are also some mentions of the tradition at this site. This is the picture of a supposed circa 1940 USN gin flag referenced in that text.










That appears to be a straight up Starbord pennant, if we can assume the dark color is green. *shrug*

I'd like to have some more burgees and pennants myself, for festive occasions, but a full set of code flags to dress ship in the traditional style is darned pricey. I'm interested in what other folks fly from the shrouds or bow for fun and pageantry.


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## SVCarolena (Oct 5, 2007)

US flag from a pole on the stern, and from a spreader halyard, one for my marina/yacht club, and one for another sailing website where I'm a member (they don't have ads or a store like SN, so purchase things like the burgee helps to offset the costs of the site).


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## Dfok (Apr 11, 2010)

*whew.....thanks*

I'm liking the history of the "gin pennant", but the thought of gin still riles my stomach years after trying out martinis.
Way back there in one of my early posts I referred to the official Naval ensign, what I meant was the official Yacht ensign, approved by congress in the late 1800's so US Yachts did not have to clear customs every time they came into port. Probably a handy thing to have had during Prohibition too.
That's the one I ordered.


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## dhays (Jul 9, 2010)

US Flag on a pole on the stern.
Yacht Club Burgee, and/or the regional Catalina Association Burgee from the spreader halyard.


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## SVCarolena (Oct 5, 2007)

Dfok said:


> I'm liking the history of the "gin pennant", but the thought of gin still riles my stomach years after trying out martinis.


I've tried martinis, and to me it is like drinking lighter fluid (and it was good gin, not the cheap stuff). uke On the other hand, a gin and tonic with good gin and a twist of lime is just fine, except that these days I pretty much stick with beer, which is much safer.


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

in port, the 'Erin Go Bragh' http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d9/San_patricios_flag.jpg from backstay and when im home in conjunction with the US Boat Ensign flag File:United States yacht flag.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia from stern while i doubt it constitutes actually 'flying' i rigged a homeade sunshade out of four flags sewn together... two sewn on the short end of the rectangle, then the other two sewn perpendicularly with no middle seam to get around the the backstay... kinda like this:

l l
l l====
l l====
l l
i drape the rig over the boom and bungiee the whole deal and it gives great cockpit shade... those flags are:
File:Flag President of Ireland.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and
Flag of Munster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the reason being that my ancestors are from limerick in the prov. of munster.

anyway, im glad this came up.... as the Erin Go Bragh is not (i think) an official flag, anyone know the etiquette regarding 'novelty' flags flying above the flag of our beloved USA? the Ensign flag is rigged to the stern via pole, as probably most are... is it ok to fly _anything_ above our flag, regardless of wheather it is 'offical' or not?


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

Dfok said:


> I'm liking the history of the "gin pennant", but the thought of gin still riles my stomach years after trying out martinis.
> Way back there in one of my early posts I referred to the official Naval ensign, what I meant was the official Yacht ensign, approved by congress in the late 1800's so US Yachts did not have to clear customs every time they came into port. Probably a handy thing to have had during Prohibition too.
> That's the one I ordered.


Oh, right. Good call. Classic.










I'm flying a 24" x 36" flag from a 4' staff on the starboard stern. That's a good two sizes over what you'd commonly find on a small 21' boat like mine, but I really enjoy the way it looks. (I wound up this way originally because I wanted something in a hurry for Independence Day and they were sold out of the smaller sizes. ;-) )

It might be time to look into a small rail mount pole for the bow pulpit.


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

QuickMick said:


> anyway, im glad this came up.... as the Erin Go Bragh is not (i think) an official flag, anyone know the etiquette regarding 'novelty' flags flying above the flag of our beloved USA? the Ensign flag is rigged to the stern via pole, as probably most are... is it ok to fly _anything_ above our flag, regardless of wheather it is 'offical' or not?


Yup, quite OK. The stern staff (or the peak of the mizzen gaff if you are so rigged) is the position of greatest honor on a ship or boat, no matter if the masthead, spreaders or bow are higher in elevation.


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## tomwatt (Dec 11, 2009)

lydanynom said:


> That appears to be a straight up Starbord pennant, if we can assume the dark color is green. *shrug*


Usually, B&W emulsions are more sensitive to red than green, and very dark colors are usually indicative of warm colors than cool colors, in my photo experience. But it could vary a lot depending upon film emulsion and filters used so that unfortunately doesn't prove a lot.
To really interepret that banner, you'd probably need to research the Oz Navy's flags/banners.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

48in 50 star from the stern. Have full dress signal flags that came with her, but have never flown them. Didn't think my purchase was technically her maiden voyage and nothing all that cool has happened since I've owned her. Well, nothing that technically qualifies for dressing ship. 

I'm considering something to fly from the starboard spreader to make a significant statement that will change the world. Once I settle on the statement, I'll have to figure out the flag.


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## dhays (Jul 9, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> I'm considering something to fly from the starboard spreader to make a significant statement that will change the world. Once I settle on the statement, I'll have to figure out the flag.


Just give us fair warning so we can be prepared for this world-changing event.


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## Heinous (Mar 25, 2009)

Someone beat me up once and flew my underwear from the starboard spreader, but I'm not sure of the significance...




Actually, US yacht ensign aft, and yacht club burgee on the spreader. I do have a cocktail flag, but haven't flown it yet so as to avoid unwanted guests.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

dhays said:


> Just give us fair warning so we can be prepared for this world-changing event.


Will do. So far, I just sit in the cockpit with a pitcher of margaritas and stare at the empty spreader halyard. About an hour or so later, my world has changed for the better anyway.


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## MIeagle (Jul 9, 2010)




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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Suddenly, I'm hungry for a nice warm bowl of whale blubber.


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

All the gibberish aside 

US Flag 2/3rds the way up the back-stay on a halyard, I do not care for the US Yacht Ensign.
Maryland State flag on the starboard spreader followed by whatever burgee is appropriate for the event we may be attending or participating

*6.02*If the Maryland flag is flown on sailing vessels:

Sloops, cutters, and schooners
While underway - sailing vessels with one mast should fly the U.S. Ensign at the stern staff, or two-thirds of the way up the leech of the mainsail (or at the top of the leech, if gaff-rigged). The Maryland flag should fly at the starboard spreader, or on the forward mast of a schooner.
While at anchor - The U.S. Ensign should fly from the stern staff and the Maryland flag from the starboard spreader


Maryland State Flag Protocol


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## Dfok (Apr 11, 2010)

I'm a big fan of Patrick O'Brien and his Aubrey/Maturin books, I'd like to find or figure out a nod to that history - but no Union Jack for me. Blue at the Mizzen seems a bit over the top too.
Maybe the Blue Peter, but the whole idea is to fly something "interesting" under sail.
Is there a "Save the Bay"/ "Save the Gulf" flag ?


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

not to offend anyone who may fly it, but i think the jolly roger is just queer. the one sv on my lake that flys it is consistenetly crewed but a bunch of tools.


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## Heinous (Mar 25, 2009)

QuickMick said:


> not to offend anyone who may fly it, but i think the jolly roger is just queer. the one sv on my lake that sails it is consistenetly crewed but a bunch of tools.


I'm not a fan, either, and I might fire upon any who sail toward me while flying it.

However, it is entirely appropriate to be flown at a pirate-themed event where everyone is dressed as a pirate or wench and goes from boat to boat plundering rum drinks.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

QuickMick said:


> not to offend anyone who may fly it, but i think the jolly roger is just queer. the one sv on my lake that flys it is consistenetly crewed but a bunch of tools.


+1. The jolly rogered sv on our lake is also crewed with tools. Wait - that's my boat.

Soon though I'll be flying the SWC Pink Flag - so it will all balance out eventually.


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## dhays (Jul 9, 2010)

Dfok said:


> I'm a big fan of Patrick O'Brien and his Aubrey/Maturin books, I'd like to find or figure out a nod to that history - but no Union Jack for me. Blue at the Mizzen seems a bit over the top too.
> Maybe the Blue Peter, but the whole idea is to fly something "interesting" under sail.


Maybe you need to design an appropriate pennant for lovers of the Aubrey/Maturin novels? If it is good, I'd fly it.

Dave


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## DwayneSpeer (Oct 12, 2003)

*flags*

I fly the US flag off of a staff on the transom, the WWYC burgee, a past officers flag, a courtesy flag, when appropriate, and at times a cocktail hour flag from the starboard spreader. I also fly, from time to time, a huge Confererate flag from the port spreader as well as other miscellaneous pendants.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

I don't fly any flags, the PO left some sort of US thing in a locker, I might burn that and pop it up on the spreaders for a laugh.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

PaulinVictoria said:


> I don't fly any flags, the PO left some sort of US thing in a locker, I might burn that and pop it up on the spreaders for a laugh.


Proud of yourself, are you? Figures you named your boat after a fruit.


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

I'm considering the red/white striped "Don't Tread on Me"; on the starboard spreader. Is it OK to fly this US Navy Ensign or is it only allowed to be flown by the oldest commissioned Navy ship? I like it as a political statement; but won't fly one if it's considered illegal.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

I am currently flying the Panamanian flag out of courtesy, because we are a guest of the country. As can plainly be seen is the flag of my beloved country even with all of it's faults. Possibly Tangerine could just mail back the flag he finds so disgusting?.. .......*i2f*


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

KeelHaulin said:


> I'm considering the red/white striped "Don't Tread on Me"; on the starboard spreader. Is it OK to fly this US Navy Ensign or is it only allowed to be flown by the oldest commissioned Navy ship? I like it as a political statement; but won't fly one if it's considered illegal.


That's a Jack, not an Ensign. It is flown at the bow of a government vessel only while anchored or in port. That particular flag does not appear to truly be the first navy jack, although common lore has had it as such for a while.

A few years ago the Secretary of the Navy ordered that all Navy ships fly that so-called "first Navy Jack" instead of the regular Union Jack "for the duration of the war on terrorism".

Nothing you do to any flags in the US is illegal, but what you are proposing is probably in poor taste.


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

imagine2frolic said:


> I am currently flying the Panamanian flag out of courtesy, because we are a guest of the country. As can plainly be seen is the flag of my beloved country even with all of it's faults. Possibly Tangerine could just mail back the flag he finds so disgusting?.. .......*i2f*


Based on all the stuff I've been reading, it is considered a big honking disrespect to fly your national ensign on the same halyard as, much less below, another flag. You should fly it from a staff on the stern or 2/3 up the leech of the main or the backstay if you have to.

It is also considered a big honking disrespect to your host country to fly another flag on the same halyard as the courtesy flag.


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## captbillc (Jul 31, 2008)

Smack----i don't think you would enjoy the whale blubber. when i was in greenland on the SV Sheila Yeates the skipper came aboard from the shrimp trawler we were alongside. he had a bottle of danish bitter schnapps & a chunk of mucktuck (whale blubber with the black skin on it). he sliced off a chunk and said, try this! it tasted like cod liver oil, but a swig of the schnapps got rid of some of the taste.


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## dhays (Jul 9, 2010)

*How to...*



lydanynom said:


> You should fly it from a staff on the stern or 2/3 up the leech of the main or the backstay if you have to.


In an attempt to increase my knowledge, and decrease my blood pressure, I'd like to ask an actual boat question.

I will occasionally see the US flag flying from the either the backstay or the boom topping lift. I never have figured out how they rig a halyard to either of those. Can anyone help (small words and simple sentences may help me).

I've also always raised my radar reflector on a small halyard on the port spreader. I've seen them affixed to the backstay but again not sure how they do that. Any help here?


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

PaulinVictoria said:


> I don't fly any flags, the PO left some sort of US thing in a locker, I might burn that and pop it up on the spreaders for a laugh.


Dont bother...just raise your jolly roger and set sail on the _SV Toolbox_


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

I am not going to fly it from the port halyard, and I am at anchor, so there is no leech. There are steps on my sterns, so planting a staff in the middle of the steps is out of the question. One backstay has the SSB antenna, and the other has the wind generator, so there goes that option. From my understanding placing the home country flag under the host is appropriate, but I wouldn't make a bet on that knowledge..:laugher  . Excuse the mess. I was fitting solar panels to the bimini, but I think you can see my predicament ...*i2f*


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## SVAuspicious (Oct 31, 2006)

US Ensign on a staff at the stern. Eastport Yacht Club burgee over Webb Institute burgee on port spreader halyard. Courtesy flag (or Q) on starboard halyard. I have a pig stick for the masthead also, but no private signal to fly there.

Oh I have a big battle flag I fly on the staysail halyard.


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## PaulinVictoria (Aug 23, 2009)

Holy crap, you guys have absolutely no sense of irony or humour do you?


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

Looks like you have plenty of room for a staff in the center of that aft deck to use when not underway, how about that?

Most of the nautical flag tradition and etiquette resources I have been digging up since this conversation started are telling me that the national ensign should be worn at the aftmost position possible and never share a staff or halyard, and that a courtesy flag should be worn on the outermost starboard spreader halyard and never share the halyard.

One example reference from the USPS that a lot of people seem to put stock in:

Flag and Etiquette Committee -- Ensigns

Flag and Etiquette Committee -- Courtesy Flags

And also:

Maritime flag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

One might think that would work? Well, at least until you understand that's where I park my sports car! All 12ft. of her .......*i2f*


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

http://www.host-me-free.com/uploads/adfbd1d3ec.jpg


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## JonnyQuest (Apr 27, 2010)

*Jolly Roger*



QuickMick said:


> not to offend anyone who may fly it, but i think the jolly roger is just queer. the one sv on my lake that flys it is consistenetly crewed but a bunch of tools.


Oh you've done it now, Mick! My six year old wants to fly a pirate flag flying on the Jonny Quest and is prepared to hold his breath and turn blue until he gets it.

But then he and his younger sister are all for the idea of dressing up as Pirates if requried

No flags yet, but I fancy flying the Stars and Stripes off the stern. Call me old fashioned.


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## DwayneSpeer (Oct 12, 2003)

imagine2frolic said:


> One might think that would work? Well, at least until you understand that's where I park my sports car! All 12ft. of her .......*i2f*


If you can't fly our flag correctly then don't fly it at all. If you don't understand the correct way to do it read this Flag and Etiquette Committee

Anything else is showing disrespect, not only for the flag but your countrymen as well.


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

dhays said:


> In an attempt to increase my knowledge, and decrease my blood pressure, I'd like to ask an actual boat question.
> 
> I will occasionally see the US flag flying from the either the backstay or the boom topping lift. I never have figured out how they rig a halyard to either of those. Can anyone help (small words and simple sentences may help me).
> 
> I've also always raised my radar reflector on a small halyard on the port spreader. I've seen them affixed to the backstay but again not sure how they do that. Any help here?


As ours is a yawl, we fly the US flag on the main backstay(equivalent of a leech line). Club ensign on the starboard spreader (or courtesy flag if we're going foreign). A line up the mizzen doesn't clear the roach and the mizzen boom interferes with a staff.

As we have two sticks, we can fly a jack, but we're not at anchor enough on sundays to justify getting one.

Rigging it is pretty easy- small block with two notched plates behind it to grip the wire and an endless loop going to deck level.


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## jcalvinmarks (Mar 17, 2010)

JonnyQuest said:


> Oh you've done it now, Mick! My six year old wants to fly a pirate flag flying on the Jonny Quest and is prepared to hold his breath and turn blue until he gets it.
> 
> But then he and his younger sister are all for the idea of dressing up as Pirates if requried


If you have to fly a pirate flag, I would try to find a more obscure design rather than the tired old Jolly Roger. Being from North Carolina, I fancy Blackbeard's Flag. Even at Pirate-themed events, the traditional Jolly Roger has been done to death. Here are several Alternate Pirate Flags.

Me? I have been known to run up a Confederate Naval Ensign, much to the delight of the multitude power boaters on the Southern Virginia lake I sail. I also have on board a traditional 50-star for when it is appropriate. Both are 3 sizes too big for the 19-footer I sail.

Speaking of dressing ship (way back at the beginning of the thread), I'm thinking of getting a cheap, small set of code flags for this very purpose to celebrate the birth of my first son. Any thoughts on how long it is appropriate to leave the ship dressed?


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## QuickMick (Oct 15, 2009)

BoatSafe.com

this may at least help with the order...


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

DwayneSpeer said:


> If you can't fly our flag correctly then don't fly it at all. If you don't understand the correct way to do it read this Flag and Etiquette Committee
> 
> Anything else is showing disrespect, not only for the flag but your countrymen as well.


WELL,

The O.P seems to have had all the answers, and in making light I was asking what's proper. As I typed I thought it was proper, but I wouldn't bet on it. How about learning some internet etiquette, or just stuffing!:laugher .......*i2f*


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

DwayneSpeer said:


> If you can't fly our flag correctly then don't fly it at all. If you don't understand the correct way to do it read this Flag and Etiquette Committee
> 
> Anything else is showing disrespect, not only for the flag but your countrymen as well.


WELL,

The O.P seems to have had all the answers, and in making light I was asking what's proper. As I typed I thought it was proper, but I wouldn't bet on it. How about learning some internet etiquette, or just stuff it!:laugher .......*i2f*


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## DwayneSpeer (Oct 12, 2003)

imagine2frolic said:


> WELL,
> 
> The O.P seems to have had all the answers, and in making light I was asking what's proper. As I typed I thought it was proper, but I wouldn't bet on it. How about learning some internet etiquette, or just stuff it!:laugher .......*i2f*


I believe I was quite polite. After all I didn't call you an idiot for not doing it right because that wouldn't have been polite even if it were correct. Telling me to stuff it, on the other hand, isn't very polite.

Any way we all make mistakes and I hope you read the link and know better now.


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## radioguy (Jul 26, 2010)

DwayneSpeer said:


> If you can't fly our flag correctly then don't fly it at all. If you don't understand the correct way to do it read this Flag and Etiquette Committee
> 
> Anything else is showing disrespect, not only for the flag but your countrymen as well.


lol  I guess if we disagree with things our country does then we should just move to another one too huh?


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## lydanynom (May 26, 2010)

radioguy said:


> lol  I guess if we disagree with things our country does then we should just move to another one too huh?


That's not in any way an analogous sentiment.


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## JomsViking (Apr 28, 2007)

Proudly flying this aft:








Club burgee + Danish Ocean Cruising Association burgee under port spreader, courtesy flag under starboard spreader (if required).


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## radioguy (Jul 26, 2010)

I'm going to fly this:










Anyone know what its from?


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## jcalvinmarks (Mar 17, 2010)

radioguy said:


> I'm going to fly this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou._

"Are those hijackers??"
'Well, out here, we call them 'pirates.'"


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## ffiill (Jul 15, 2010)

Over here in th UK there is just as much controvesy-at least here in Scotland.Whilst the red ensign is the official UK merchant marine/leisure craft flag it is often the case here in Scotland that whilst a small one of these is flown. Even on merchant vessels a far larger Saltire-flag of St.Andrew is flown-diagonal white flag on blue back ground.
Historically when King James 6 of Scotland took over the English throne in 1606 to become James the first of Great Britain(he coined the phrase) Scottish vessels continued to fly the saltire at their mast head with the red vertical/horizontal cross of St George 9the English flag)at the missen-English ships vice versa.
The origional Union flag combined these in a very equal way but sadly as time progressed the flag of St.George began to dominate as it does to this day.
As for me as an ex pat Englishman in Scotland with a boat Glasgow(Scotland) registered I fly the saltire much to the annoyance of many English sailors!
The Saltire Feature Page on Undiscovered Scotland


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