# Sewing Machine Ripoff



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I found an online article (supposedly) by a guy who bought a factory second sewing machine from the same factory that makes Sailrites. His machine was labelled "Yamata" but was the same walking foot, high horsepower, zig zag stitch machine that Sailrite sells for $750. and he got it for $325. He goes into a lot of detail about the minor adjustments that he had to make to get it running correctly but was quite pleased with his purchase. The company that he ordered it through was "SpecBrands" AKA "eSPECTRONS CORP" and he gave a website address.

I ordered the same machine December 3rd, paid by PayPal and shortly after received a receipt stating that the machine was coming by standard shipping. After a few weeks I found that the website was gone, the phones disconnected, and my eMails were unanswered. PayPal was notified but they don't seem to be able to do anything. I'm out my $320. and have nothing to show for it. Don't let it happen to you!


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Ouch. Sounds like it was a scam. Sorry it happened to you.

- CD


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*There are TONS !!!*

There are TONS of sewing machine scammers out there!! DO NOT ever buy a sewing machine from someone other than a reputable dealer you know and trust or from an individual that is local if buying used.

Sailrite sources their machines from off shore vendors but then spends about two plus hours on set up and tweaking for each machine before they ship you one. Their machines are worth the money especially when you take CUSTOMER SERVICE into account which you WILL need on a sewing machine.

I managed to find a local & used commercial machine on Craigslist but before I purchased it I called the local dealer to make sure they could and would service it..

Again, there are a number of horror stories out there about Sailrite knock off scammers! My guess is that the article you read was perhaps written by the scammer as this is a ploy some will use..

Good luck recovering your money and I would start with Paypal!!

Local Craigslist find and ued less than 6 hours!!


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## Sabreman (Sep 23, 2006)

To expand a bit on halekai36's comment, Sailrite doesn't just rebrand an offshore machine. Their machines are patented (the walking foot, I believe) and of course, the service and advice are value added. I have the blue machine and the only improvement that I'd wish is for a longer arm, but that's a nit.

Sorry to hear about your problem.


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

Sabreman said:


> To expand a bit on halekai36's comment, Sailrite doesn't just rebrand an offshore machine. Their machines are patented (the walking foot, I believe) and of course, the service and advice are value added. I have the blue machine and the only improvement that I'd wish is for a longer arm, but that's a nit.
> 
> Sorry to hear about your problem.


I own that one and have the same improvement wish. The thing has been great. My wife even started using it to hem blue jeans and other thick heavy fabrics. I thought about finding a used one but ended up forking over the money for new.

Next project is a riding sail and then jack lines.


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## Gramp34 (Oct 5, 2006)

Azura said:


> PayPal was notified but they don't seem to be able to do anything.


Paypal "buyer protection" is a joke. It's not that they *can't* do anything, their policy is to *not* do anything.

Did you pay through a credit card? If so, call the credit card company and ask for instructions for filing a formal protest of the payment. Unless Paypal can demonstrate you received the machine you paid for, the credit card company will claw back the payment from Paypal and refund your money.

I went through this a couple years ago on eBay. Nitwit sold me tools. I paid with Paypal. When I arrived to pick up these tools, Nitwit realized he didn't have them in stock. He kept promising "real soon now". When I filed a complaint with Paypal they told me there was nothing they could do as the 30 day limit for complaints had expired.

Fortunately I had paid through Visa. I printed off all the correspondence with Nitwit and Paypal, faxed it to them and got reimbursed inside two weeks.

Surprisingly, a couple weeks later I got a very gracious email from Paypal telling me that if I ever have a problem in the future, please contact them and as they would love to help me. Right. They don't want me going to Visa as Visa beats them with a big stick.

Good luck,

Tim


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Using a major credit card is really your best protection. They've got the resources to go after the scammers and are required to refund your money in the case of non-delivery of goods.

*Don't confuse your DEBIT Card, with a Visa or Mastercard logo on it, with an actual credit card.* There is a huge difference, and you should never use your DEBIT card on an internet-based transaction IMHO, since anything charged to the DEBIT card comes directly out of your bank account... and depending on what is going on...may be very difficult to reclaim.


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## phallo153 (May 4, 2007)

Gramp34 said:


> Paypal "buyer protection" is a joke. It's not that they *can't* do anything, their policy is to *not* do anything.
> 
> Did you pay through a credit card? If so, call the credit card company and ask for instructions for filing a formal protest of the payment. Unless Paypal can demonstrate you received the machine you paid for, the credit card company will claw back the payment from Paypal and refund your money.
> 
> ...


Sorry but I have to disagree with your comment on Paypal protection policy. I purchased an item in January that was "significantly not as described" and lodged a dispute through Paypal's resolution center (the time limit is now 45 days from purchase) when I couldn't get a satisfactory response from the seller.
After receiving no satisfaction from the seller during the buyer/seller communication phase that Paypal moderates once a dispute is opened, I elevated the dispute to a claim. They found in my favor and recovered the $ from the seller.


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## marinedtcomRob (Oct 26, 2005)

Just a quick follow up regarding the "sewing machine rip off." I have a Sailrite SR100. I don't remember exactly what I paid for it but it was a lot, like close to $1000. I took it to be serviced recently and the sewing machine shop explained what base machine it was (re-labeled) and how I could have bought it for less than half. Now Sailrite does put a heavier flywheel on it which is useful but not worth twice the price. So on the surface I do agree with the post above. However, Sailrite had everything I needed in one place to do my canvas work and knowledgeable support staff. With materials I paid roughly $1500 and ended up with new canvas and a sewing machine vs. paying $3500 for a custom canvas shop to do the job. So while Sailrite may not be right for everyone, I am not at all unhappy with them. They need to make money somewhere and I think they provide a valuable resource. That's not to say they are right for everyone, just that even though I may have "paid too much" for my sewing machine, I still see the whole cost / benefit of dealing with Sailrite as offering good value for me.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

marinedtcomRob said:


> So while Sailrite may not be right for everyone, I am not at all unhappy with them. They need to make money somewhere and I think they provide a valuable resource. That's not to say they are right for everyone, just that even though I may have "paid too much" for my sewing machine, I still see the whole cost / benefit of dealing with Sailrite as offering good value for me.


Rob,

Your post and this thread are timely for me, as I am considering purchasing a Sailrite machine. I have a fair bit of canvaswork from our boat that needs to be renewed, and the quote from a local shop was staggering.

My question for those of you who have gone this route: How difficult is it to achieve good results? Can an all-thumbs nimrod figure this out, or is some sewing/stitching aptitude and prior experience a prerequisite?

If it matters, the sorts of projects I am contemplating are the somewhat smaller variety like: teak handrail covers, binnacle cover, bimini boot cover (not the bimini), winch covers, etc.


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## Sailormon6 (May 9, 2002)

John, I have a White home sewing machine that was advertised as "heavy duty." It's a very basic machine. I've made Sunbrella sail covers, tarps, winch covers, teak handrail covers, hatch covers of all sorts, tiller covers, fender covers, a cover for my inflatable dinghy, and other things that don't come to mind at the moment. Also, I've repaired other factory-made items. It's not terribly difficult, especially if you have an old one that you can take apart and use as a pattern. It takes me more time than it would a pro, but it saves a lot of money. 

There are some things I haven't tried yet, such as a bimini top and a dodger. When they need to be replaced, I might have them done professionally, because they could look awful if you can't get them just right, and I might not be able to make them as strong with my lower powered machine. Nevertheless, if you have the patience, and a smidgen of ingenuity, it's well worth doing.

I'd say the most important thing is to learn how to use your machine. Most local sewing machine stores in my area offer free lessons, but you'll probably be the only man in the class, of course. If you act helpless, you'll get all the attention you need.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

John,
I've been repairing my own canvas for years on three of our past boats, starting back in '85 by restitching a full-camper canvas, replacing isenglass and zippers. The project came out surprisingly well for my first boat-canvas attempt.

Essentially, the old panels were used as a template and I simply followed the stitching patterns of the original. It was fairly straight forward work, with a shallow learning curve for me. Initially, only a couple of short runs went off course a bit. This was corrected by pulling the bad stitches and resewing. 

I did have some upholstering experience a few years before, during a project I designed and built for us involving entire sets of living/dining room furniture, still have the sofa/chair and end table in the family room. I cut and stitched all cushion covers - after doing much reading on the subject. We still get comments on how well-made the set is.

I did not purchase a Sailrite, or commercial grade machine dedicated for heavy duty sewing. Instead, used a '60s era all metal, Singer sewing machine - a family hand-down. Amazingly heavy duty machine, but still limited to 4-5 layers of canvas weight material.

It was used for a custom sun awning I designed and fabricated for the last boat, which came out very well. We saved a ton of money through the years by doing all the work myself. I would say though, a certain amount of talent is necessary - especially with layout, design and eye/hand craftsman skills.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Thanks for the feedback, Sailormon and TB.



> I would say though, a certain amount of talent is necessary - especially with layout, design and eye/hand craftsman skill.


I hesitate a bit here, as I am not particularly gifted in the fine motorskills department. I'm better with big hammers and the larger powertools.


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## Lion35 (Sep 28, 2007)

I have a heavy duty all metal Bernina machine, this is a home machine not a true commercial machine. The machine is up to the task and easily sews thick leather or 6 layers of sunbrella. I however am not very talented with cloth and found getting good results on the projects to be more difficult than I thought they would be. I've pulled off tiller covers and salon cushion covers and similar projects but I paid to have a new dodger made last year. I have found repairs to be pretty straight forward and things like leather chafe gear very easy.

My advice would be to borrow a machine and try a simple project before making the investment in a nice machine of your own. See if you like it and see if you have the aptitude. 

Allthough I got a Berninna machine instead of a Sailrite I have bought a ton of stuff from Sailrite and have found them to be a first class shop with excellent inventory and helpful staff.

Good luck


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## hotdogs (Mar 5, 2008)

I recently got involved with doing some sewing work myself and have really enjoyed it. I've helped with making a mainsail for a Soverel 30, a spinnaker for a J29, and an assemblage of seat cushions and whatnot. In general, it's work that anybody can do, but there are definitely some tricks to it that are not obvious.

What I found to be really helpful in getting started learning about doing sewing work was to take a course at the local technical college. It cost me about $30, but having an experienced upholsterer and sailor teaching the class was invaluable. Also, the access to heavy-duty sewing machines was very nice for working on difficult portions of the project, such as the reinforcement patches near the head, tack, clew, and reef points.

Finally, to keep this post on topic, the instructor was a great resource for sewing machine advice. She was able to explain what manufacturers had repair shops in the area, what features to look for in sewing machines, etc.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Good advice. Sewing machines are like radars: everyone thinks "how hard can it be? I'll just sit down and get to work"...but the reality is that even basic training yields huge dividends.


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## svSandDollar (Mar 13, 2008)

Azura - I am *SO* sorry that happened to you. I use eBay often for purchases. Paypal should be able to help you, but the time limit may be past. I had to go through them a couple times to resolve stuff, took a long time though. As well - we have KP44 #153 (used to be Aurora), haven't been on the KP group much since the refit has slowed due to work, but still around. When I saw your sig I just wanted to say hi from one KP to another.

JohnRPollard - I just purchased the Sailrite LSZ-1 (blue one)... it arrived 2 days ago. I have been watching the videos and I am even more impressed now than when I purchased it. Solid metal (except wheel and knob covers, but those are automobile plastic - solid) parts, and HEAVY. I like the posi pin design and I can actually see how things work since everything is accessible underneath. When I ordered it all, I also got the CD collection and the 'Utrafeed Set-up & use' DVD and the 'Adv. Maintenance' DVD as well. When it shipped Sailrite sent me the usual email, but they also said they didn't send the two DVDs I ordered - they were included free with the new machine. It's a little thing, but I thought that was real nice of them. Saved me $40.

I have yet to sew anything on the machine though, since my sunbrella doesn't arrive until Tuesday (got it someplace else). But I am taking measurements and making plans so I can get started as soon as it arrives.

I had been using an old Husquvarna machine to make up some handrail covers for Sand Dollar. I did it to show my hubby I can actually sew, he heard rumors but never saw anything I had done. But since they turned out great, he let me get my new LSZ along with the 'loadit' option. I wanted this machine not only for the thick projects that my machine struggled with but to take with us on our future cruising plans.

I count at least 14 projects I want to do on Sea Monkey ranging from tiller cover to dodger. I am doing these as practice (esp. the dodger and bimini) for the projects I want to do on Sand Dollar. I was a bit overwhelmed at the thought of doing a dodger (I don't have an old one to copy), but I got the CD's and they look fairly straight forward. I would start with the simpler projects and work my way up to the more complex ones, but you should do just fine. By the time I'm all done, my hubby will have plenty of proof I can sew... still won't hem his pants though, too much work. 

Lori


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I just picked up a Pfaff 360 today for $200.  Nice solid machine. Got some canvas projects planned for this season.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

sailingdog said:


> I just picked up a Pfaff 360 today for $200.  Nice solid machine. Got some canvas projects planned for this season.


You must have missed this sweet deal on a vintage Phaff 360 for only $15.00 . . .


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

TB-

That's just for the OWNER'S MANUAL... please read the site again.


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## TrueBlue (Oct 11, 2004)

Oh . . . thought it was a manual sewing machine.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Good thing you don't build the houses you design. 


TrueBlue said:


> Oh . . . thought it was a manual sewing machine.


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