# Long Beach to Catalina Island in March



## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

My wife and I have a vacation in mid-March and are thinking about chartering a boat out of Long Beach and sailing over to Catalina Island. I realize it's off-season and that Catalina would be pretty dead, which I think is how I'd prefer it.

From the pilot chart it looks like the predominate winds are northwest and north that time of year. Is that also the case close to shore? Any significant current to contend with? I understand there can be Santa Ana winds in the winter, in which case you just stay home...

Anything in particular to watch out for or be worried about crossing to Catalina?

All my previous charter boat sailing has been Lake Superior, this whole saltwater thing would be new to me.


----------



## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Current is usually about 1.5 Kts. downcoast and not significant, there are shipping lanes between mainland and island, not a problem in good visibility but AIS is comforting in fog. A lot of commercial traffic is entering/leaving LA/LB, once past the breakwater there's not much problem, water taxi's and work boats run 24/7 between LB and the oil platforms at full throttle. On a clear night the glow of lights from Los Angeles sometimes seems to light the whole channel.
Bring some old gloves, the sand line on the moorings is polyprop and embedded with sand, makes a mess when you haul it up.


----------



## roverhi (Dec 19, 2013)

Seems like March was the wettest month of the year when we were building our boat in Cost Mesa. Not quite Minnesota in January but bring your foulies just in case. Didn't rain constantly but enough to soften the clay soil so getting the boat out of the yard was a challenge.


----------



## cpt_757 (Sep 16, 2014)

I remember this year, Quite windy in end of March, and always commercial traffics are quite heavy in inside.


----------



## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

I can't predict wind or weather that time of year but I did a late October trip to Catalina. Still enough hustle and bustle at Avalon or too much for my liking. Two harbors was awesome with maybe 20 boats with people onboard at both harbors. We spent about 4 days there. Super quiet and peaceful. There is still a grocery store, and a diner for breakfast and an outside bar for happy hour and a "nicer" restaurant for dinner open. From either Isthmus Cove or Avalon you are able to sail around to Catalina Harbor if a big Santana comes to stay on the back side of the island. We are considering going back in March as well.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Long Beach Sailboat Charters - Harbor Yacht Clubs

Long Beach Sailing Harbor | Marina Sailing Instruction, Rentals & Yacht Charters

We joined this 5 years ago and chartered in both Long Beach ( went to Catalina) and San Diego
Great group

The trip to Catalina about 20-22 miles. Stayed on moorings in Avalon and Two Harbors. Depending on the wind direction ( swell) depends on the " bobbing" on the mooring. Can be pretty intense

Had a great time on Catalina and did two great adventures

1- longest zip line
2- trip into the interior of the island and famous airport on Humvees . Great tour and environmentalists view of the island. Before that never realized the "dessert climate " which you'd never expect

Even with tourists it's not too bad . Soon as the last ferry departs, you have the place pretty much to yourself.

We also chartered 3 days in San Diego which was great sailing.
There we also took a 3hour ride on Dennis Connors Americas Cup Boat Stars and Stripes. My wife Donna had the helm for over 20 minutes. They only take 12 people
Quite a beast of a boat

Sail San Diego Bay on 1992 America's Cup Yacht USA-11


----------



## Lazerbrains (Oct 25, 2015)

I can't count how many times I have sailed to Catalina - I go there at least once a month, and my typical daysail brings me halfway there. 

When sailing there from Long Beach, the typical prevailing winds when sailing to Two Harbors is right on your nose, and will be more to the beam if going to Avalon.
Conditions in the channel are open ocean and can range from calm to rough - typical winds are 10-15kts, but can run to 25kts in the afternoons. If Santa Ana winds are
predicted, do not go. The moorings on Catalina are a death trap when Santa Anas blow. There is a mega-pod of dolphins that is commonly encountered once you are about
9 miles out, and you will likely spot whale spouts during March as well. Avalon is very busy the entire year as it is a cruise ship stop - it is very touristy with lots of trinket shops, 
restaurants, etc. Two Harbors is quiet, but the mooring balls are quite a bit more expensive. If you have the time, circumnavigate the island - the backside is beautiful to sail around, 
but you will need two anchors if going anywhere other than Cat Harbor on the backside. As noted before, Catalina's harbors are *very* rolly. Also, negotiate a dinghy into your charter
if you can - otherwise you will be at the mercy of the shoreboats in the harbors. It is a fun place to sail to, and a beautiful island to visit.


----------



## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

southerly drift varies from 1-4 kts, as we saw when unable to re enter angels gate in a coronado 25 in 1988. tidal variable is not included in that 
this is la nina--could well be storms, which usually during la nina cycle end about april if lucky. 
check your weather--you donot wish to be at catalina when it is stormy. gets busy there. 
you should have a fun trip.


----------



## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

When we lived in SoCal, we kept our boat in the basin at Alamitos Bay Yacht Club from 1987 to 1992 (when we moved to Fla!), and traveled to Catalina at least once a month or more. We often went over on a Thursday evening, usually arriving around 10:00 PM, to score a FCFS mooring and I would take the fast ferry back to the mainland for work in the AM Friday. Without a doubt, March was always one of the most problematic months. Cold, often wet, and almost always very windy/blustery. In fact, it was the March weather that convinced me to buy a smaller/reefable headsail as the Mach winds were more than we cared to handle with a 150 and, often, even a 135 proved too much.

From Angels Gate to Two Harbors is about 21 miles. The wind in San Pedro Channel is virtually always northwesterly and the set of the current is southeasterly with a drift of 1-2kn. To lay a fair course to Two-Harbors, one needs steer at about 240º to 245º which makes the trip a hard,wet, cold beat. Going to Avalon is somewhat less of a trial but not by much and, at least in my view, there isn't much to recommend it considering that one can visit Avalon from Two-Harbors on the shore boat if that is your objective. Moorings in Avalon are densely packed and one is often less than a boat length apart from one's neighbors (think low-cost RV Park). At Two Harbors there is a large reef southwest of Bird Rock that one must avoid and there used to be a daily contest at the near-by watering hole to see who could call/predict the number of boats that would ground on that reef. Often power-boats traveling at speed but occasionally sailboats that would come to a sudden halt and dip their bows precipitously raising great cascades of water. (Some I simply couldn't watch knowing there would have been more or less damage to the boats!) 

We did enjoy visits to Two-Harbors and hiked all over the nearby hills, fortunately avoiding run-ins with the ever present buffalo. We also stayed at the Wrigley Mansion B&B in Avalon a number of times (travel by ferry), which made that area enjoyable, much more so than by boat.

FWIW...


----------



## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

avalon from angels gate is precisely 26.1 miles. 
takes minimum of 4 hours to traverse channel. 
there is 4 kt southerly drift.
check weather and have good fun.
do not go when santana conditions are predicted. it gets really bad.
cat harbor can even get bad in santana conditions.


----------



## Lazerbrains (Oct 25, 2015)

zeehag said:


> avalon from angels gate is precisely 26.1 miles.


No, it's 22 miles from Angels Gate, not 26, and Two Harbors is 19.

And leaving from Long Beach, you would not go through Angels Gate unless you want to motor up the inner harbor to San Pedro for 45 minutes.


----------



## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

This is great! I love Sailnet, so much knowledge here. Thanks chef2sail, Harbor Yacht Clubs is where I'm planning on getting a boat.

Thanks for the info about the dolphins, Lazerbrains. My wife worked for a while at a marine mammal school in La Paz and I know she'd like a chance to be back out in a boat with dolphins and whales.

It sounds like the key to the trip is just to watch the weather, and if it's bad don't go. We'll bring our foulies.

Looking at the chart it looks like Avalon has better protection than Isthmus Cove at Two Harbors, but Two Harbors sounds more our speed than Avalon. I suppose we could spend some time at each.

Thanks again everyone, I'm starting to get pretty excited for this trip!


----------



## gptyk (Mar 20, 2013)

The other thing that often happens is it's dead calm in the AM. I'm out of Dana Point, many trips to the island. Probably 20 percent or so started off sailing - most often I have to motor over at least part way. (Summer is real bad for being dead in the morning, Spring has better chances for wind). It's also quite a bit farther from Dana Point, but then again I'm 5 min from my slip to the ocean so that makes up for some of it.

I'm thinking of going over after x-mas, weather permitting. 

As everybody else said: Santa Ana's are killer. Cat harbor is the only place that's you can find moderate protection. Avalon becomes deadly (literally). 

I'm good for a day in Avalon, beyond that it's too busy. Really like Two Harbors/Cat Harbor. I've stayed at whites a few times too (nothing ashore). You _gotta_ get a Buffalo Milk at the bar in two harbors.


----------



## zeehag (Nov 16, 2008)

it is 26. ,easured at 26.1 miles angels gate to avalon. is on charts and in books 
ifyou choose to believe 21 miles, that is your business. it has always been 26.1 miles, the 10 yrs i was sailing there--- i guess someone changed the san pedro channel after i left..


----------



## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

zeehag said:


> avalon from angels gate is precisely 26.1 miles.
> takes minimum of 4 hours to traverse channel.
> there is 4 kt southerly drift.
> check weather and have good fun.
> ...


Zee--

I suspect you are speaking of statute miles. From my old charts, sitting here on my desk, to a point 50 yards north of the ferry mole at Avalon from the center of Angles Gate measures 22.2 nautical miles. From the mid-point of Angel's Gate to a position just north of the mid-point of Fisherman's Cove, at the Isthmus measures about 19.9 miles. From the end of the jetty at Alamitos Bay to the same point at the Isthmus measures about 25.3 miles as one has to jog east a bit to miss the east end of the LB breakwater.

Someone commented that one has to motor northwest behind the breakwater for 45 minutes to depart from Angels gate. Perhaps so but leaving from Angels Gate gives one much better angles to either Avalon or Two Harbors which will save one (usually) much more than 45 minutes of beating across San Pedro Channel and a much better crossing angle for the traffic lanes through the channel. On the way home we always went directly for the east end of the breakwater and the Alamitos Bay jetty and often made that passage in 3-1/2 hours. It was an off-the-wind, down current/waves sleigh-ride. Leave by 1300, home by 1630! (Never did it in March, however!)

FWIW...


----------



## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Pardon my ignorance, but what/where is Angels Gate?


----------



## Lazerbrains (Oct 25, 2015)

zeehag said:


> it is 26. ,easured at 26.1 miles angels gate to avalon. is on charts and in books
> ifyou choose to believe 21 miles, that is your business. it has always been 26.1 miles, the 10 yrs i was sailing there--- i guess someone changed the san pedro channel after i left..


Well I hate to differ with you, but I just checked my old Noaa chart and it shows distance from Angels Gate to Avalon as 22.1 miles. 
I have also had Avalon and Angels Gate programmed into my various nav devices as waypoints, and the distance is always given as 22 miles from the gate to Avalon when I am
sailing there.

I think you might be confusing Angels Gate (San Pedro) from another port?


----------



## Lazerbrains (Oct 25, 2015)

Minnesail said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but what/where is Angels Gate?


Angels Gate is the entrance to Los Angeles harbor in San Pedro - it is marked by a very distinctive old lighthouse that sits atop the seawall on one side of the entrance.


----------



## Lazerbrains (Oct 25, 2015)

svHyLyte said:


> Someone commented that one has to motor northwest behind the breakwater for 45 minutes to depart from Angels gate. Perhaps so but leaving from Angels Gate gives one much better angles to either Avalon or Two Harbors which will save one (usually) much more than 45 minutes of beating across San Pedro Channel and a much better crossing angle for the traffic lanes through the channel. On the way home we always went directly for the east end of the breakwater and the Alamitos Bay jetty and often made that passage in 3-1/2 hours. It was an off-the-wind, down current/waves sleigh-ride. Leave by 1300, home by 1630! (Never did it in March, however!)
> .


I can see the advantage. Even out of Pedro, it is often advantageous to sail up along Palos Verdes a bit to get a good angle into the Isthmus.

The ride back home to Pedro is typically quartering waves on the rear.....


----------



## Lazerbrains (Oct 25, 2015)

Minnesail said:


> This is great! I love Sailnet, so much knowledge here. Thanks chef2sail, Harbor Yacht Clubs is where I'm planning on getting a boat.
> 
> Thanks for the info about the dolphins, Lazerbrains. My wife worked for a while at a marine mammal school in La Paz and I know she'd like a chance to be back out in a boat with dolphins and whales.
> 
> ...


Its a great sail, and fine to go in March if you watch the weather. If you want to see both towns, you should plan on sailing to Two Harbors first, and then you can sail to Avalon. If you go to Avalon first, it will be a motor boat ride to Two Harbors, against the wind and current. Neither bay has better protection, and they can be rolly moorings. Let me know when you are in town and I would be happy to buddy boat over with you.


----------



## gptyk (Mar 20, 2013)

Seems to me we've got a nautical vs statute thing going here. 26 statute is pretty close to 22 nautical. So everybody is right. It's close than I am from Dana Point at 32nm to Avalon.


----------



## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

Lazerbrains said:


> I can see the advantage. Even out of Pedro, it is often advantageous to sail up along Palos Verdes a bit to get a good angle into the Isthmus.
> 
> The ride back home to Pedro is typically quartering waves on the rear.....


So it is typically a west wind? Typically calmer in the morning and windier in the afternoon?


----------



## capttb (Dec 13, 2003)

Minnesail said:


> So it is typically a west wind? Typically calmer in the morning and windier in the afternoon?


That's the "usual" beer can races start at 2 because best wind runs from 1:30 to a peak at 3:30 starts to drop toward sunset, sometimes you'll get a little "Sundowner" after sunset. Yesterday and today winds were light until about 1 then mostly 8-10 kts. with some gusts to 15, 55 degrees yesterday 64 today 70 tomorrow. Storm and cold front just blew thru Friday. and freakin cold for me. I use the terms "downcoast" "upcoast" because the coast actually runs west to east between Long Beach and La Jolla, kinda disorienting.


----------



## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Lazerbrains said:


> Its a great sail, and fine to go in March if you watch the weather. If you want to see both towns, you should plan on sailing to Two Harbors first, and then you can sail to Avalon. If you go to Avalon first, it will be a motor boat ride to Two Harbors, against the wind and current. Neither bay has better protection, and they can be rolly moorings. Let me know when you are in town and I would be happy to buddy boat over with you.


Understatement
Avalon with Santa Anna is teeth rattling...you'll never sleep

It's a great sail, watch the weather and report back. I like living vicariously through others , especially places I've been👍😄


----------



## jephotog (Feb 25, 2002)

Minnesail check out my trip report from my October trip to Catalina somewhere here. I still have two more days to finish and hope to soon to report before I forget it all and have to make up stories to fill in the gaps. 

My take on Socal sailing and weather. I live in San Diego but Socal weather is pretty similar all around. Long Beach is windier than SD. The weather here is very predictable. Convective activity is almost non-existent or rare enough and predictable enough to be a non concern. Likewise any weather here is usually accurately forecasted at least 2-3 days in advance. If the weather turns out not to be as predicted it will usually be for the better, i.e. a rain or storm is predicted and it never happens. In 5 years and 100s of days of sailing I can remember the wind exceeding 20 knots 3 times, but I don't go out when a storm is predicted. Almost every leg you would sail is between 20-30 miles. As long as you don't wait till too late into an oncoming storm, any sail you may make will be under 5 hours. If a Santa Ana is predicted you can move around to the back side of the island to Catalina Harbor. If a big storm is predicted the best plan is to run away to one of 5 islands on the coast of California.

Worst case scenario is a vacation of rain in Socal. Last time I did this, my wife started interviewing for positions in San Diego to get away from winter.


----------



## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

chef2sail said:


> Understatement
> Avalon with Santa Anna is teeth rattling...you'll never sleep...


With all due respect, Avalon in a Santa Ana is a death trap for boats, and, if they're not ashore, potentially for crews. If a Santa Ana is forecast ones wisest move is to head for the west side of the Island if one doesn't have time to make it back to the mainland. Cat Harbor "ain't" great in a Santa Ana but is better than anything on the east side.


----------



## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

I booked the boat!



Lazerbrains said:


> Let me know when you are in town and I would be happy to buddy boat over with you.


Saturday March 18th through Wednesday March 22nd. It'll be a new experience for me, I welcome any help.



jephotog said:


> Minnesail check out my trip report from my October trip to Catalina somewhere here.


I have checked it out, it was part of what got me thinking about this trip. Thanks!



chef2sail said:


> It's a great sail, watch the weather and report back. I like living vicariously through others , especially places I've been


I will absolutely report back. I will also have a few more questions to ask the group before I go.

This trip will be a big step forward in my sailing development. It'll be my first time in saltwater and probably more traffic than I've ever seen before.


----------



## gptyk (Mar 20, 2013)

Yes, as I've (and others) have said, Santa Ana's are deadly:

Victims Identified: 2 Die in Wind-Whipped Waves Off Catalina Island, Including Patrolman | KTLA

Another thing to know, is the moorings are all two line fore-aft, not swing moorings. 
Catalina Island Mooring Info & Rules | Visit Catalina Island. 
It's pretty easy to pick them up - though kinda tough to do singlehanded. I've found the patrol in Two Harbors to be much more helpful in mooring than Avalon. I went into Isthmus Cove once with a broken transmission shift cable. Once they saw me shifting by the very yachtie method of bellowing "FORWARD!" "NEUTRAL!" REVERSE!" to my lovely wife who was elbows deep in the engine compartment they came right over and helped us moor. The folks on the yacht next to us gave my wife a round of applause when she came up topside for her ability to be a shift cable.

The moorings are all extremely close in Avalon. If you moor next to a high-windage powerboat, contact is common. It's not a bad idea to fender up to windward. Two Harbors and other locations are a bit more open.

If y'all would like more company, PM me... I'm almost always up for some reason to go out the island.


----------



## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

It's a special place. Enjoy yourself. Stay away from the buffaloes.


----------



## svHyLyte (Nov 13, 2008)

gptyk said:


> Yes, as I've (and others) have said, Santa Ana's are deadly...
> 
> Another thing to know, is the moorings are all two line fore-aft, not swing moorings.
> Catalina Island Mooring Info & Rules | Visit Catalina Island....
> ...


The "Spreader Lines" between the fore'n aft mooring points refered to in the Catalina information page are also known as "slime lines". It is wise to have a pair of full finger rubber gloves to handle them. DO NOT slide your hands along the line. Hand-over-hand them. They frequently have barnacles that can scar the gloves, or the palms of your hands, if you are not so equipped.

Avalon is like a cheap RV/Trailer park. If you choose to go there ask the Harbor Patrol to give you a mooring as close to the Casino as possible. As noted, it is also wise to suspend fenders along both sides of your boat. Note that in either mooring field, the Harbor Patrol will come aboard and drop a dye tab in your head. Woe betide the boat owner/operator that has a dye trail in the water from discharging anything overboard through the heads/bilge. Don't even think about it!

FWIW...


----------



## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

svHyLyte said:


> The "Spreader Lines" between the fore'n aft mooring points refered to in the Catalina information page are also known as "slime lines". It is wise to have a pair of full finger rubber gloves to handle them. DO NOT slide your hands along the line. Hand-over-hand them. They frequently have barnacles that can scar the gloves, or the palms of your hands, if you are not so equipped.


That is good to know, thank you.

Coming from freshwater I'm used to slime and perhaps a dreaded zebra mussel, barnacles will be new to me.

HOLY BALLZ, is St. Patrick's Day a big deal in Long Beach or something?! The hotel on the Queen Mary is already booked solid for the night of March 17th and the Hilton Maya at the marina charged me more than a $100 over their usual rate. Luck o' the Irish indeed!


----------



## DesertLuddite (Jul 22, 2015)

Thanks for all the great info everyone. My wife and I are planning a quick 3-day charter with our kids and Grandma on a 38' Leopard out of Long Beach to Catalina Island over the last three days of March. My experience is primarily on the Columbia River in Portland, OR, but also some days on the Puget Sound, San Juan Islands, and a week in the BVI. A first trip on the edge of the Pacific is a little unnerving, but you all have been very helpful in providing some insight to what we should expect.

We'll be well set with foulies (a way of life in the Pacific Northwest), but here's to crossing fingers for no storms.

(And as usual, any words of wisdom for sailing a catamaran out to Catalina are welcome.)
Thanks,
Josh


----------



## Minnesail (Feb 19, 2013)

I've been watching the weather, trying to get a feel for it.

I think I'm going to be rather conservative in my choices. I'm used to chartering about 39' boats on Lake Superior, this will be only a 29' on the Pacific... If they call a small craft advisory I'll probably stay behind the breakwater.


----------



## DesertLuddite (Jul 22, 2015)

Funny... I've been doing the same thing.. checking real-time weather and looking at almanacs.

In fact, I just got off the phone with the charter company we're using. He mentioned that in the event of a small craft advisory, they "ground" all of their boats, so I won't really have the option to put us in harm's way... fine by me. and worst case, if the weather is sour the whole time, they'll refund the charter fees.

Feeling very excited... hope all the fretting about conditions turns out to be much ado about nothing. (Our first half of the week will be three days at Disney with our three kids, so I'm sure I'll be ready for a few days on a boat to decompress from that little adventure.)


----------



## Markwesti (Jan 1, 2013)

At Two Harbors , the Isthmus . Doug's is the only restaurant . I love that Calamari steak . https://www.yelp.com/biz/dougs-harbor-reef-restaurant-two-harbors
Avalon , tons of choices for eats . A place we enjoy is the Sand Trap for lunch , but first we stop by the Marlin Club for a bloody or two ok no more than three .


----------

