# composting toilet-should we do it



## CLOSECALL (Dec 11, 2012)

We are seriously considering a composting toilet for our 30ft Pearson. The boat currently has a porta-potti which limits us to about three days usage. Ask me how I know.

Space constraints seem to dictate putting a holding tank either under the v-birth or the dinette, both of which seem conducive to neither romance or dining.

So talk me either into it or out of it. I'd like to here from sailors who have real experience with these composters. The few dock neighbors who have them seem very satisfied with them, but I feel funny asking if I can take one for a test ride.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Copy the following into the search field on your browser and you'll find tons of opinions and experiences:

site:sailnet.com composting head

I do not have one. In my opinion, they have their place. However, my largest objection is trying to explain to a guest how to use it and what's going on. Clean the skid marks with this spray, no water. I have guests nearly every weekend, not all are into camping. 

The composter is a great solution for capacity and disposal, but knowing you're sitting inches from the last dude's doo and you're going to crank yours into it, will be unacceptable to some. Maybe not rational, but true nevertheless.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

CLOSECALL said:


> ....putting a holding tank either under the v-birth or the dinette, both of which seem conducive to neither romance or dining....


Ours in underneath the cabin sole by our dinette. You would never know.

I might be a tad reluctant to put it under the v-berth, only because the possibility of a leak would make that a tough place to sleep.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

As Minnewaska says, there's lots that have been written about composting heads. I'd recommend you read through some of the recent threads. As someone who actually has one, I'd say yes. But there are real trade offs (and not really the ones Minn mentions).


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## CLOSECALL (Dec 11, 2012)

Thanks for the search tip, Minne.

Our bilge would be way too shallow.


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## CLOSECALL (Dec 11, 2012)

One other thing. My wife requests some comments from female users.


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## sulli (Mar 9, 2013)

Minnewaska said:


> Ours in underneath the cabin sole by our dinette. You would never know.
> 
> I might be a tad reluctant to put it under the v-berth, only because the possibility of a leak would make that a tough place to sleep.


I own a Pearson 30, under the sole is about 5" deep at the deepest point, right in front of the companionway steps. This space is where all p30's I have seen out the bilge pump. Your answer therefor does not help the OP with his question.
I am considering a composting head for these same reasons, mine is under the v-berth.


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## Donna_F (Nov 7, 2005)

CLOSECALL said:


> One other thing. My wife requests some comments from female users.


We don't have one, but if John suggested going that route I'd be game. I'm pretty much ok with trying anything that won't potentially sink the boat, otherwise be unsafe, or make us the laughingstock of any marina.


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## 4arch (Jul 7, 2009)

We had a composting head for the last three years of owning our previous boat. The premise of sailing around with a tank full of liquefied waste was never very appealing to us so we were delighted to be rid of the tank, hoses, and the need to find working pump out facilities every so often. Ultimately, though, the “yuck” factor between the composting head and a holding tank ended up being about equivalent in our minds. We had to deal with a couple of fruit fly infestations, which certainly upped that yuck factor. Explaining usage to guests was about the same – if not a little easier for the composting head. There were definitely fewer opportunities for a guest to screw something up. Having to constantly empty the liquid container at first seemed a small price to pay for not having to deal with holding tanks and pump-outs, but it did get old, getting 36-48 hours max between emptyings for two of us. On balance, we wanted to like the composting head, but just didn't see any true advantage over a holding tank system. We sold ours with the previous boat and don’t plan on putting one back in the new boat.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

CLOSECALL said:


> ....Space constraints seem to dictate putting a holding tank either under the v-birth or the *dinette*........





sulli said:


> I own a Pearson 30, under the sole is about 5" deep at the deepest point, right in front of the companionway steps. This space is where all p30's I have seen out the bilge pump. Your answer therefor does not help the OP with his question.....


Placing it under the dinette wasn't my idea.

Further, I was only trying to debunk the notion that having it there would interfere with dining.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Just clarify, at least once per year, I will have a guest begin to walk down the transom steps to board the dinghy to go to dinner in pumps. This despite prior instruction. At the least, we have several each year that have never used a head aboard before. 

I have this vision of the last one (son's girlfriend) in her evening dress, heals, painted nails and perfect hair/makeup being sent to piddle/poo on a pile of dirt. :laugher

I didn't raise the friends, I just have them along from time to time.


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## alctel (Jan 25, 2014)

I am in the process of switching out the holding tank/head the boat I just got came with for a Natures Head.

I did a ton of reading on it and while the traditional holding tank system seemed to be great while it worked, when it went wrong it seemed to cause a hell of a mess.

I like having to worry about 2 less through-hulls, and removing all the hoses and tank has freed up another compartment (right under the V Berth). The entire setup is a lot simpler and easier to troubleshoot, and I don't have to worry about whether or not the pumpout station is working.

Certainly pros and cons to both though - in the end it's down to personal preference


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

Seems to me there are real advantages of the desiccating head (It really does not compost in normal use) and few real disadvantages. Sure it takes some education, but a normal nautical head takes some as well. Seems your situation is about the perfect reason for one. Here is a good topic on a homemade one. Could work in a small head quite well.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/pacific-seacraft/118138-homemade-composting-head.html

I hope your handle has nothing to do with the need for a head!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Just be aware that there really are no "composting" heads for boats. The ones that abuse that term really only separate the liquids and the solids, and you still have to handle and dispose of those separately. You won't be making any "compost" along the way, you'll still be handling sewage and disposing of it.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

hellosailor said:


> Just be aware that there really are no "composting" heads for boats. The ones that abuse that term really only separate the liquids and the solids, and you still have to handle and dispose of those separately. You won't be making any "compost" along the way, you'll still be handling sewage and disposing of it.


While it is still "sewage" it is relatively dry and does not smell. The liquid actually tends to have more odor issues than the solid. The C-Head sells extra buckets and a cover to let the full bucket actually compost. So you can set it out behind a shed and let it go a couple of months before dumping into the garden, or throw it into the composting heap. But yes, it is not likely a good idea to dump it straight into the flower bed, especially not a vegetable bed.


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## CLOSECALL (Dec 11, 2012)

Thanks, Sailor. That is a good point that folks should be aware of.

Handling sewage is just a fact of life on a boat. Either you handle it or you pay someone to handle it. 

Miata, the handle refers to my sailing across Johnson's Reef in the Virgin Islands - unintentionally - many years ago.


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## weinie (Jun 21, 2008)

There was a guy who posts here who wrote a book about buying a boat and going cruising without any previous experience.
In the book, the composting toilet was a disaster!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

wienie, I know the book you mean just can't remember the name of it. 

The author did all his research, picked the "separating" head, and then wound up at one point with 2? 4? women crew on the boat. Apparently the head he chose just didn't properly separate the urine stream from women, resulting in a huge wet mess in the "dry" section that promptly slopped out of the bowl when they were heeled.

At least, that was his conclusion.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

paul-
I'm aware of that. But I think the folks marketing the heads are taking advantage of a new age "we're making compost! Nice clean fertile soil!" happy pitch to customers, instead of just honestly telling them "You're going to be dealing with semi-dry poo". Which doesn't have nearly the same sales appeal.

"Compost" brings up a vision of Waterworld's tomato plant set nicely on the stern deck, doesn't it? (VBG)


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## CLOSECALL (Dec 11, 2012)

Hopefully designs have improved.


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

for my part,

I really want to get rid of my holding tank. I abjectly detest the damned thing. I'm probably gonna go portapotti and composting toilet (2 heads). On our F27 we got five days out of our portapotti, think it had a 5gal tank. There now are portapotties that are semipermanent, ergo pumpable.

it'll be a good thing to close those thruhulls too.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

A composting head is much like most of our sailboats. It is possible to produce complete compost, just like it is possible to sail everywhere, all the time. But most people with sizeable sailboats spend a lot of time motoring, so I guess it's also unfair to call our boats "sail"boats ... right 

The main reason most people choose a "composting" head is for the simplicity, the effectiveness, the added safety, the freedom from pump outs, and the huge space savings. I have never met anyone who chose one of the heads b/c they wanted to be more environmentally friendly. In fact, I don't believe HS's characterization is fair. I just looked at the NH homepage. No where does it even mention any environmental benefits. It's probably somewhere on the website, but it's certainly not the main reasons being listed.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

At least for me, portapotties are substantially less desirable than a holding tank. Especially the ones that recycle the chemical laden poop/pee slurry in the tank to flush, as most do. uke

I think portapotties are only appropriate where space is extremely limited and no other solution will work.

Those chemicals are also terrible for the environment.


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> At least for me, portapotties are substantially less desirable than a holding tank. Especially the ones that recycle the chemical laden poop/pee slurry in the tank to flush, as most do.


Which ones are those? I've never seen that. Both the potties I've had used a plain water tank to flush. Just straight water. The formaldehyde, which incidentally is the same chemical in a holding tank, is held in the receptacle tank of the potti.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Multihullgirl said:


> Which ones are those? I've never seen that. Both the potties I've had used a plain water tank to flush. Just straight water.


The ones you are familiar with seem less gross, nevertheless, you still get to haul the tank ashore and dispose of its contents in a fairly personal way. My job as a kid........ maybe I'm scarred. By the way, many marinas forbid disposing of portapotty contents in the restrooms, therefore, you get to transport it home. Checks a lot of gross boxes for me.



> The formaldehyde, which incidentally is the same chemical in a holding tank, is held in the receptacle tank of the potti.


No way. A properly maintained holding tank should have zero chemicals in it. It should be managed to propagate non-odor producing aerobic bacteria, which takes some very simple disciplines. The first is adding nothing you haven't already eaten to the tank, other than toilet paper and non-toxic bowl cleaners. The second is to insure good ventilation (ie oxygen for the bacteria to grow and make it inhospitable for the odorous anaerobic bacteria from you gut. I dare say 99% of boaters do this incorrectly and nearly as many have trouble or dislike holding tanks as a result. Doesn't have to be that way.

Adding chemicals to either has several drawbacks beyond the environmental impact I mentioned. First, the chemicals themselves often smell!! Second, they kill everything, good bacteria and bad alike. When they wear off, and they always do, the bad gets a jump on the good. Add them to your tank and you're doomed to a self fulfilling profacy.


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## CLOSECALL (Dec 11, 2012)

I know the numbers are not balanced, but I hear a lot more swearing when folks talk about their conventional marine heads than composters do about theirs. Usually people switch to composters after á number of bad experiences with the conventional type.

If I had a functioning conventional head, I don 't think I would replace it with a composter. Faced with the need to have something more than a portapotti, the composter sure looks like an upgrade.


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## RonRelyea (Nov 18, 2009)

hellosailor said:


> wienie, I know the book you mean just can't remember the name of it.
> 
> The author did all his research, picked the "separating" head, and then wound up at one point with 2? 4? women crew on the boat. Apparently the head he chose just didn't properly separate the urine stream from women, resulting in a huge wet mess in the "dry" section that promptly slopped out of the bowl when they were heeled.
> 
> At least, that was his conclusion.


that dude's main problem was that he mounted the head athwartship. liquids didn't separate when heeled. make sure you mount it fore/aft ... also - the two women aboard were grossed out by the concept from the beginning and seemed intent on making their gross-outedness a self-fulfilling prophecy.


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## jslade8581 (Aug 3, 2009)

I'm a believer - my wife and I installed one on our boat. My dad, brother and I went cruising over the spring for about three weeks total, no issues with it. (We use the Airhead composting toilet.) I really enjoy it. Plus, my boat now only smells like diesel - the smell of, well, you know, is completely gone!

To clarify - the smell is gone because we removed the holding tank. The composting head doesn't smell at all.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

"but I hear a lot more swearing when folks talk about their conventional marine heads than composters do about theirs. "
That's an easy but unjustified jump to a conclusion. Assuming a higher percent of conventional head owners complain about their heads, there could be many reasons for that. Most likely, is that the vast majority of boaters simply boat a boat, with a head, with no research and no training and no idea of how to care for it. So they have problems, and they complain. These are the same folks who flush all sorts of things down their home toilets and complain about how they clogged. (G)

Now the folks who bought separating heads, are universally folks who have given great thought to the matter, committed to a specific maintenance routine and specific operating requirements, and they've found...probably that when you plan ahead for something, it is most likely to meet your expectations for how it will work.

That says nothing about the heads, it only speaks about head owners. Easy to confuse the two.


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## CLOSECALL (Dec 11, 2012)

Sorry, Sailor. I may be trying to overthink this.


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## RainDog (Jun 9, 2009)

We switched to a composting head after 3 years, 100+ hours, and $3000+ dollars of trying to eliminate odors from our conventional holding tank system. We finally gave up. Our tank is only 18 gallons. If we could pump it out twice a week, or install a 50 gallon tank, then I think we could have make it work. Neither is practical for us however. 

As Mike often points out, the "composting" head does have a learning curve. As pointed out above, the urine separating heads are not really composting heads, but rather desiccating. Either way they are completely odor free (at least for the solids) which is the solution we were looking for. 

We are only a few months into ours, but so far it is by far the best head we have had. If your wife wants to talk to my wife, just IM me and I will give you her email.


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## fryewe (Dec 4, 2004)

Composting or dessicating...call it what you will...in my view the composting head is the way to go. I have been using my C-head for eight months. It beats my old throne and flushing piping and holding tank and pump out piping and macerator pump and three way valve and sea **** for salt water flushing and sea **** for overboard discharge and associated electrical wiring in the following ways:
- No smell
- Simplicity of use
- Simplicity of "discharge"
- Almost zero maintenance and maintenance expense
- No flooding risk (no thru hulls and sea cocks)
- Lower initial cost
- Frees up space for additional battery and storage

YMMV.


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## tjvanginkel (Sep 26, 2006)

We installed a C-head brand dessicating toilet on our boat nearly one year ago. Our boat had overboard disharge only and we wished to become compliant with the laws, be more neighbourly when at anchor and got tired of making the morning run to shore to use facilities......
The cost of a custom holding tank that would have very little capacity led us down this road.
I find as a girl, that I have to be more mindful of my positioning than my male counterpart, and sometimes some urine does end up in the wrong place, however with the ease and frequency of emptying the C-head this has posed no real problems and a little extra peat moss will take care of it.
We have one at our land based full time living quarters as well, so are very familiar with the unit. We have had a fruit fly infestation at home and on the boat. That was not pleasant, but easily remedied on the boat, we cleaned the whole unit well and hung the poo bucket in the sea for a day,(after emptying it) no more fruit flies, at home it took longer to get rid of them, I think because we were not too interested in really scrubbing the poo bucket and we should have soaked it like we did the other.
It takes some commitment and willingness to use these separating toilets, but I am quite certain that the gross factor is alot less than a portapotti.
Regarding odors, we have not yet got around to connecting the ventilating fans on either unit as there is little to no odor from either unit. I will start to notice a bit of smell when it is time to empty the bucket.
One of the reasons we chose the C-head was for the ease of emptying it. No unbolting of the whole unit as with airhead and natures head. The trade off is that it has to happen more frequently. That becomes a matter of personal preference I think.
From my point of view this is the simplest and least problematic solution to human waste storage on board a boat, especially a smaller boat.
If you do chose to go with a "composter" I would recommend spritzing the urine diverter with a mild vinegar solution after each use, this will prevent an unsightly mineral build up on it. You can tell your guests its just like flushing!
Regards, Tanya


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## amelia (Jan 6, 2011)

We also have a C-Head, decided on it after a tedious amount of research on all sorts of waste treatment options, and so far, after over a year and a half, are quite pleased with it. It is compact, lightweight, sturdy, requires no special carpentry or platform, and its construction is blessedly simple. It's easy to empty, easy to maintain It isn't 'gross' or unsightly, and certainly nowhere near as objectionable as sewage-permeated hoses and pumpout stations. Ugh! The learning curve for its use is no steeper than that for any other marine head.  Ours doesn't have any odor at all. It is easy to use. Due to the rather shallow bowl men DO have to sit to use this gadget-- or head for the lee rail. No two ways about that. But then real sailors generally do, right? We haven't had any gnat infestation, but I should think a quick spritz with Raid, and a bit of airing out would cure that. Have also heard that a sprinkling of diatomaceous earth in the peat kills larvae. Also, perhaps using a medium other than garden-center peat might be worthwhile. Removing the containers takes all of 30 seconds, tilting up the seat, lifting the milk jug out, and, if necessary the solids container, dumping and replacing. Easy as can be. I don't understand the objection to the 'small' container. For one thing, a larger one takes up precious space, and for another, who wants to save that stuff, and why?
If you're far out at sea, it's perfectly legal to dispose of it overboard. If you're inland, dump the solid lumps into a plastic bag and pour it into a shoreside toilet, pour it onto a dedicated compost pile, or put a permanent lid on the bucket and chuck it in the nearest dumpster. Urine is as easy as screwing the lid on the disposable (free) gallon plastic jug and pouring it out at the next opportunity. So far, we arent seeing the downside of this thing, and are grateful that we won't have to fix broken mascerators, worn flapper valves, or burned-out pumps. To each his/her own!


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## DougSabbag (Aug 3, 2011)

"Should we do it"? 

NO.

They stink.


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

Well Doug, care to elaborate your experience?


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## amelia (Jan 6, 2011)

Weren't you paying attention? These heads stink IF you insist on peeing standing up, aiming at the big hole in the back of the bowl....duh! Here's your free clue: It is the urine that smells bad, especially if mixed with the solid waste. The idea behind the so-called composting head is desiccation. If you don't get the composting/drying medium wet, I believe you will find there is no problem with odor, especially if you bother to do ordinary decent housekeeping.


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## RainDog (Jun 9, 2009)

DougSabbag said:


> "Should we do it"?
> 
> NO.
> 
> They stink.


The main selling point of a composting head is they do not stink. Pretty much all conventional heads stink unless you pump directly overboard. The composters have many downsides, but the lack of any odor is the reward you get for putting up with the them.


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

RainDog said:


> The composters have many downsides


What are those, in your view?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

There is no reason that a holding tank and traditional head must stink. Most, however, have no idea how to properly use them and care for them.

There is no guarantee that a composter won't stink (or for that matter attract flies). Again, you must use it correctly.

Stinking is not the deciding factor.

Downside to composter?...... teaching the squeamish guest how to use it, cleaning skid marks (no water), dealing with diarrhea, how about your guest's diarrhea. I'll stop there. Traditional heads will flush these all way without you ever knowing about them.


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

Minnewaska,

we get it. You don't like desiccating heads. Well, I don't like the holding tank. Besides, I asked the man with the desiccating head HIS opinion, since he's the one with the experience.

Thanks.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Multihullgirl said:


> Minnewaska,
> 
> we get it. You don't like desiccating heads.....


That's not correct. They have their place, I just don't want one due to some of their downsides and the guests I typically have. I take more exception to incorrect accusations that holding tanks must smell.


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

The smell is the least of my problems. I don't like holes in my boat's bottom; the limited capacity, given the difficulty of finding pumpout; the weight; the complexity. I have a holding tank; I know what it's like. I'm trying to learn about desiccating heads, from those experienced with them.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> That's not correct. They have their place, I just don't want one due to some of their downsides and the guests I typically have. I take more exception to incorrect accusations that holding tanks must smell.


Minn, perhaps you (and everyone else) should review your comments on this topic before you stand in righteous indignation. Please, tell us how long you've had a composting head on your boat. How long have you, or your "guests" actually used one.

You seem to take every opportunity to denigrate the desiccating head based on your, or your "guests," apparent squeamishness. Perhaps I've missed something and you've actually installed one in your boat. In which case, please share. Otherwise, can I suggest you leave this discussion to those who have actual knowledge and experience.


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

--almost forgot: for those of you with the C-Head

How are the containers (bucket and jug) fastened within the overall enclosure? I know there's a tray underneath, but do the bucket and jug just sit inside?

thanks


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## tjvanginkel (Sep 26, 2006)

Multihull girl,

The containers are not fastened inside the C-head. They are an exact fit so do not move around.

And it has been my experience that a properly maintained "separating waterless dessicating " aka composting toilet does not "stink" as some might say.....
Regards,
Tanya


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## SVTatia (May 7, 2007)

Question for the C-Heads:

Is the footprint smaller than the others (air head, nature's head)? Can you customize it?
I ask because the reason I can't have one is because I don't have the 19 or 20 inches needed from front to back.


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## amelia (Jan 6, 2011)

Another too-long post vanished into the ether. sigh. I will try again. What was the question? 
Oh, yes. the construction of the head is readily apparent on the C-Head.com website. Essentially, the bucket and gallon jug fit snugly inside the waterproof box that forms the base of the toilet. A molded elongated plastic bowl fits atop both. It is hinged at the back. The rear opening in this bowl is maybe 5 inches in diameter, and goes into the bucket. The bowl slopes forward to a smaller spout that fits neatly into the gallon jug. Another hinged flat layer covers the bowl, and has an expanded sort of keyhole opening to the bowl. There is a small cover that fits atop the opening to improve the ventilation draft, perhaps.The toilet seat lowers onto that. so, there are three hinged layers to lift for cleaning and removal of the bucket or jug, which can be easily accomplished with one hand. The churning crank is inserted from the top through the hole in all three layers.

I keep a spray bottle of bathroom cleaner or vinegar water beside the toilet paper and use it for basic routine cleaning. Due to the configuration of the bowl, perhaps, skid marks haven't yet been a problem, but suspect we could manage to deal with it using aforementioned products, being reasonably-good problem-solvers.

Diarrhea may require the addition of a little extra peat/coir/sawdust or whatever desiccating medium is used. (I asked!) Vomiting can be handled similarly, but is said to be best accomplished either over the side or into a plastic-bag lined bucket or trashcan.

Sandy Graves, the manufacturer, offers several sizes and configurations, including slanted bulkhead models, stepped ones, ones to fit in a pointy bow or corner, as well as the standard flat one. Drawings and dimensions are on his website at c-head.com. The standard base is 18", but the slanted one is 15" long.
For the definitive answer on custom jobs, Sandy is the one to ask, and seems very pleasant.

Hope all that is of some use.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I see all the c-head fans have perhaps pointedly failed to respond to Minne's comments about diarrhea and skid marks. What do you do if someone has violent runs? That can drop a good amount of fluid, practically water, into the solids container. Not to mention splashing it around in the head.

Do you just add mulch until it is absorbed? And without a flush, do you just put on gloves and wipe down the inside of the head? And leave that paper in it too?


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## amelia (Jan 6, 2011)

Hmmm. Guess I could try again to address Minne's concerns, this time in English? 
See paragraphs 2 and 3 above?
We have not experienced severe illness aboard our boat, and our experiences so far have not caused us undue hardship. The shape of the bowl (excuse me while I repeat myself) directs effluent directly into a plastic bucket or a plastic disposable gallon jug. That big opening is less susceptible to the greatly feared skid marks than a flush toilet, and in the unlikely event, there is that spray bottle that most grownups can master. So here is the theory for the attack of cholera. Hang on, it is pretty technical.If the plastic gallon pee jug becomes soiled, we throw it away and replace it with another recycled milk jug. If the plastic five-gallon bucket becomes soiled or soaked such that a few handfuls of extra peat cannot deal adequately with it, we dump the bucket contents into a trash bag, seal it securely, and if the bucket is somehow terribly soiled, we can tie a line around the bale, and toss the bucket over the side to rinse it off, just like people do with nasty pumpout hoses. Or we could take a hose and wash it just like spraying off the deck. Not exactly rocket surgery. Then we replace the fiber medium with fresh stuff. Probably takes all of five minutes. See there? Not a big dramatic deal after all. Nothing nearly as exciting as repairing a snarled mascerator.


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## amelia (Jan 6, 2011)

It amuses me to see strong sailors brought to their knees by the very thought of having to wipe a toilet bowl. Heaven help 'em if they should ever have to change a baby's diaper, or clean up after a puppy. S(tuff) happens, or so they say. It is a good thing somebody thought to invent soap and water, then, for a quick washup.


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## RainDog (Jun 9, 2009)

Multihullgirl said:


> What are those, in your view?


Mostly having to haul away your urine. The composters have small urine containers that you need to empty frequently.

Also you need to store some material you add to the solid chamber. This is another item you need to store and it can be messy.


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## RainDog (Jun 9, 2009)

Minnewaska said:


> There is no reason that a holding tank and traditional head must stink. Most, however, have no idea how to properly use them and care for them.


No reason the must, yet they do.



Minnewaska said:


> There is no guarantee that a composter won't stink


No gurantee, yet they don't.



Minnewaska said:


> Stinking is not the deciding factor.


Could not disagree with this more. Stinking is completely the deciding factor. I spent 3 years, several thousand dollars, and dozens of hours of labor learning this lesson.



Minnewaska said:


> Downside to composter?...... teaching the squeamish guest how to use it


Agree with this one.



Minnewaska said:


> cleaning skid marks (no water)


With no bowl, not sure how you can get skid marks.


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## amelia (Jan 6, 2011)

We like the little compressed bricks of coir. A year's supply fits in a shoebox. And as we have been installing pretty cypress tongue and groove paneling, we have quite a supply of pleasant smelling sawdust and shavings, which I scoop up from under the saw table and put in gallon ziplock bags. Two of those last us for weeks. 
Hauling a gallon jug of urine up to the bathroom at the marina isn't that hard. I wouldn't dream of dumping a jug of sterile urine overboard, any more than I could imagine someone more conveniently plumbed taking a perfectly legal leak over the lee rail. My gallon of recycled iced tea usually goes on my own azaleas, and they appreciate the nitrogen.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MikeOReilly said:


> Minn, perhaps you (and everyone else) should review your comments on this topic before you stand in righteous indignation. Please, tell us how long you've had a composting head on your boat. How long have you, or your "guests" actually used one.
> 
> You seem to take every opportunity to denigrate the desiccating head based on your, or your "guests," apparent squeamishness. Perhaps I've missed something and you've actually installed one in your boat. In which case, please share. Otherwise, can I suggest you leave this discussion to those who have actual knowledge and experience.


You're welcome to ignore or refute my comments, but I will post them as I please. I'm surprised you suggested otherwise.

I don't see where I've expressed any anger over morality? In fact, I've repeated more than once, in this thread, that I think composters have their place.

My primary response in this thread has been to misinformation about holding tanks for which I have decades of experience. In particular, I've rebutted the assertion that they use the same chemicals as porta potties and all traditional heads have to smell. One may want to discuss experience with composters, but these other comments are left for all to read and become misinformed.

I have not used a composter aboard and, if that's sufficient reason for anyone to dismiss my input, you're welcome to. Although, why you would care to stifle the experience I do have is mystifying. I have used composting style heads at various off-the-grid camps, without septic systems. While not marine models, it's the same idea and I've experienced their limitations. Those limitations are not addressed very clearly, until amelia's post, if at all. For definitional clarity, the second post by amelia has some good righteous indignation in it.  The most poignant response to limitations is a request to stop bringing them up.

The OP asked to be "talked into it or out of it" by those with experience. While I think my limited, albeit only related, experience applies, I find composter users to cronically leave out all the considerations, although, they are requested.

Whatever decision the OP or anyone else makes, is good with me. See, no indignation.


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

Y'know, another use for the urine is in hide tanning, or jellyfish stings 

Direct link to C-head site http://www.c-head.com/C-Head.html

someone asked about fit. CH has four different configurations (click on 'specs')


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> You're welcome to ignore or refute my comments, but I will post them as I please. I'm surprised you suggested otherwise.
> 
> I don't see where I've expressed any anger over morality? In fact, I've repeated more than once, in this thread, that I think composters have their place.


You're right. My comments were a bit strong. I apologize. They come out of exasperation with seeing the same comments, using the apparent squeamishness of your guests. So when Multihullgirl calls you out on this point, and you pirouette to defence of holding tanks, I let frustration drive my keyboard:



Minnewaska said:


> Downside to composter?...... teaching the squeamish guest how to use it, cleaning skid marks (no water), dealing with diarrhea, how about your guest's diarrhea. I'll stop there. Traditional heads will flush these all way without you ever knowing about them.


You and I and others just had this discussion. You got all the same answers, yet you keep going on about "skid marks," etc. This is why I encouraged readers to go look at the history of your criticisms, and the discussion that has already taken place, such as here:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/104323-composting-toilets-vs-holding-tank-12.html

Please do enlighten us on your experience with marine heads -- you're quite right, they do not have to stink if used properly. Just like using a composting head is no more difficult, even for your squeamish guests, than a standard marine head. Lets move on...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MikeOReilly said:


> You're right. My comments were a bit strong. I apologize. They come out of exasperation with seeing the same comments, using the apparent squeamishness of your guests. So when Multihullgirl calls you out on this point, and you pirouette to defence of holding tanks, I let frustration drive my keyboard:


Appreciated. All good here. I too have unloaded more than once. Even steven. I will have to go back and see what pirouette you are talking about, that felt a little bit like a back hand, while you are trying to shake the other.



> You and I and others just had this discussion. You got all the same answers....


Maybe this is where we see things fundamentally differently. I'm not trying to get new answers, any more than you are being redundant in your support of composters, which you've already posted elsewhere. We can't presume that everyone in these discussions has already proofed every comment of ours in all other threads. I'm just addressing the issues in the present, as some of them are never addressed otherwise. That's a fair "into and out of" as the OP requested.



> Please do enlighten us on your experience with marine heads -- you're quite right, they do not have to stink if used properly. Just like using a composting head is no more difficult, even for your squeamish guests, than a standard marine head. Lets move on...


Mike, you just can't pass judgement on people you don't know. I know my guests. They are good people, with good hearts, but are born, raised and live a metropolitan lifestyle. Several composter users have agreed this is an issue, like one above. I know they aren't going to be comfortable using a composter and I offer that simply for consideration to others is fair input, in my opinion.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> Mike, you just can't pass judgement on people you don't know. I know my guests. They are good people, with good hearts, but are born, raised and live a metropolitan lifestyle. Several composter users have agreed this is an issue, like one above. I know they aren't going to be comfortable using a composter and I offer that simply for consideration to others is fair input, in my opinion.


Fair enough. I apologize ... unequivocally this time.


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## amelia (Jan 6, 2011)

Oh, my! I am truly impressed at how accommodating some of you are, even to choosing your head to make the occasional delicate guest happy. Seriously! You're mighty nice. I won't be holding myself to your high standards, I am afraid. 

Maybe I just am overreacting to what seems a very high-handed entitlement mentality, but the contortions of courtesy people seem to expect are becoming wearing. My dinner guests can't eat gluten, eggs, meat, sugar, seafood, fish, dairy, artificial sweetener, carbs, fat, anything but organic, free-trade produce, alcohol, soda pop, and the list of mutually exclusive demands on my hospitality seems to be endless. Now I am supposed to tailor my plumbing to the occasional picky passenger?

No. Just no. This is my boat, not Burger King, and you'll be having it MY way. You are a guest, not the pampered princeling who owns this yacht, nor am I your loyal indentured servant. You, the guest, may decide whether you can eat this, drink that, or bear to use my toilet, but we have two choices here: Take it or Leave it. Staying ashore is, indeed, an option.

I can see I shall have to rework my welcome-aboard briefing to one more in line with my increasingly curmudgeonly personality. /rant. So there!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Captain makes the rules.

I draw the line at Vegans.


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

amelia said:


> We like the little compressed bricks of coir. A year's supply fits in a shoebox. And as we have been installing pretty cypress tongue and groove paneling, we have quite a supply of pleasant smelling sawdust and shavings, which I scoop up from under the saw table and put in gallon ziplock bags. Two of those last us for weeks.
> Hauling a gallon jug of urine up to the bathroom at the marina isn't that hard. I wouldn't dream of dumping a jug of sterile urine overboard, any more than I could imagine someone more conveniently plumbed taking a perfectly legal leak over the lee rail. My gallon of recycled iced tea usually goes on my own azaleas, and they appreciate the nitrogen.


Switching to a composter was one of the best head decisions I ever made. I would never consider going back to a traditional head. I use the material from under old moss covered logs as a composting agent ,in a cloth bag made from the leg of old jeans, which I dry behind my stove. As there is plenty around here,, there is no need to carry much. Definitely no mess problem with it. A table spoon of dry swiimming pool bleach eliminates any odour.


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

amelia said:


> I can see I shall have to rework my welcome-aboard briefing to one more in line with my increasingly curmudgeonly personality. /rant. So there!


FWIW, my doormats say "Go Away." The one for the boat is in coconut fiber, and the one for the house in cypress slats which a fella in Florida builds and then routes out cute sayings like 'Go Away.'


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## Magnolia (Dec 21, 2012)

We have the Airhead and I would never, ever give it up. Never!! 

We bought two urine containers, so we have a fresh one to replace the one that needs emptied. Which we take to the Bathhouse and empty. Before installing the empty container, I put 1 tsp of sugar in the urine bowl which cuts down on odor. As there is none.

The composting portion..we've only stayed on the boat long enough last year that we had to only empty it once, at the end of the season. This year we will be on the boat more of a full time basis. So we'll see how long it takes the two of us to use it and fill it. Although, I always use it, my hubs likes to walk up to the bathhouse to use their facilities in the morning, so we may get a longer time before having to empty it. 

JMHO and for what its worth.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Ameila, fwiw, gluten, sugar, fish, seafood, can actually kill some of your guests. Gluten and sugar do it slowly, through a wide range of autoimmune diseases (celiac disease, true wheat allergy, triggers a wide range of serious autoimmune diseases, the list is growing) and Type 2 diabetes, which among other things can destroy your retinas. Both can cause slow and unnecessary death from a variety of conditions that hadn't been related to the causes until a decade or so ago.

Fish and sugar are actually kinder, they tend to kill immediately from anaphylactic shock, but if you're lucky, someone has an epipen on board.

Crap in the bucket? No one _really _wants to bother changing baby diapers while they're having dinner, either. Not even the proud parents.


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## amelia (Jan 6, 2011)

Hello! What a strange and hostile response! When I was a child, I was taught to eat what I took on my plate, to politely and quietly decline what I could not eat, and never ever to make an issue of it, under any circumstances. That is so not done these days. Everybody is a prima donna, entitled to dictate and pass judgment on the menu. As a result, despite the fact that I used to like to cook and entertain, I don't give many formal dinner parties anymore, because I simply cannot keep up. It is just too confusing to plan a lovely menu that will accommodate everybody's whims and fashionable sensitivities. Who will or won't eat what, and who will feel as if the menu needs their personal prior approval? I am too old to prepare a different main course for every guest to cater to their needs. When I first began to entertain, if you couldn't eat shrimp, you didn't. If you were on a diet, you passed the plate on by, or just took a tiny taste. 

Flexibility, gracious appreciation, and willingness to accede to the customs of the home--or boat-- in which one finds oneself seem to be hopelessly out of fashion. I equated this personal-preference-as-diktat to the need to design the head and its infrastructure to accommodate some hypothetically hyperfastidious guest's hypothetical head hangups. What an odd leap that we somehow discuss bathrooms at the table. We don't, and if you do, you may be excused from the table. :roll eyes:

Furthermore, even if your head and your foul holding tank makes your whole boat smell like a poorly kept privy, I wouldn't dream of mentioning it, or making a scene. Doesn't seem like too much to ask the same courtesy in return. I might suggest, though, that if you are so repulsed by my desiccating head, that you take care to go in a more acceptable facility before boarding my vessel.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Hostile?
OK, call it that. Your post sounded quite dismissive of a number of serious problems. I'm not talking about the prima donnas who insist that they won't drink Coke they only drink Pepsi, I'm talking about guests who may have serious dietary issues, and it sounds like you're saying "TFB" if your menu poisons them.

Take it or leave it? No, if I'm having guests at home or afloat, I make reasonable accommodations. They can't specify the cut of meat but if I knew they were vegans, I sure as hell wouldn't tell them "Tonight's dinner is steak, eat it or go hungry." And if they had peanut allergies, I sure as hell wouldn't tell them "Lunch is PBJs, if you don't like it call out for your own pizza."

Now if you want some real head worries, find one of the WW2 submarines that is open for display and tours and read the extensive instructions showing how to operate the head (while submerged) without sinking the boat, or blowing the sewage tank back _into _it.

If all you have is a Turkish Toilet, great, but you might want to let the guests know ahead of time. Or, at least hand them a Sears catalogue before you send them in.

Food allergies and digestive disorders can be major life issues, dismissing them outright is like saying you'll undo the whole ADA, ban wheelchairs from public spaces, and set the world back fifty years on "accommodation" for folks with real handicaps. Which these are.


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## benesailor (Dec 27, 2012)

> Hello! What a strange and hostile response! When I was a child, I was taught to eat what I took on my plate, to politely and quietly decline what I could not eat, and never ever to make an issue of it, under any circumstances. That is so not done these days. Everybody is a prima donna, entitled to dictate and pass judgment on the menu. As a result, despite the fact that I used to like to cook and entertain, I don't give many formal dinner parties anymore, because I simply cannot keep up. It is just too confusing to plan a lovely menu that will accommodate everybody's whims and fashionable sensitivities. Who will or won't eat what, and who will feel as if the menu needs their personal prior approval? I am too old to prepare a different main course for every guest to cater to their needs. When I first began to entertain, if you couldn't eat shrimp, you didn't. If you were on a diet, you passed the plate on by, or just took a tiny taste.
> 
> Flexibility, gracious appreciation, and willingness to accede to the customs of the home--or boat-- in which one finds oneself seem to be hopelessly out of fashion. I equated this personal-preference-as-diktat to the need to design the head and its infrastructure to accommodate some hypothetically hyperfastidious guest's hypothetical head hangups. What an odd leap that we somehow discuss bathrooms at the table. We don't, and if you do, you may be excused from the table. :roll eyes:
> 
> Furthermore, even if your head and your foul holding tank makes your whole boat smell like a poorly kept privy, I wouldn't dream of mentioning it, or making a scene. Doesn't seem like too much to ask the same courtesy in return. I might suggest, though, that if you are so repulsed by my desiccating head, that you take care to go in a more acceptable facility before boarding my vessel.


THANK YOU ! ! Well said. Bravo

You home is your castle. While in other people's castle's show some respect.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

hellosailor said:


> wienie, I know the book you mean just can't remember the name of it.
> 
> The author did all his research, picked the "separating" head, and then wound up at one point with 2? 4? women crew on the boat. Apparently the head he chose just didn't properly separate the urine stream from women, resulting in a huge wet mess in the "dry" section that promptly slopped out of the bowl when they were heeled.
> 
> At least, that was his conclusion.


And not only that he had some crew compliance issues and some of the women refused to use the head the way it was designed.
It was effectively sabotage in that case.


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## benesailor (Dec 27, 2012)

> Hostile?
> OK, call it that. Your post sounded quite dismissive of a number of serious problems. I'm not talking about the prima donnas who insist that they won't drink Coke they only drink Pepsi, I'm talking about guests who may have serious dietary issues, and it sounds like you're saying "TFB" if your menu poisons them.
> 
> Take it or leave it? No, if I'm having guests at home or afloat, I make reasonable accommodations. They can't specify the cut of meat but if I knew they were vegans, I sure as hell wouldn't tell them "Tonight's dinner is steak, eat it or go hungry." And if they had peanut allergies, I sure as hell wouldn't tell them "Lunch is PBJs, if you don't like it call out for your own pizza."
> ...


You must be a lawyer.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

amelia said:


> .....some hypothetically hyperfastidious guest's hypothetical head hangups......


1. My friends are not hypothetical.

2. It's a cultural norm to use flush toilets, where waste "goes away", it's not fastidious.

You have the right to run your boat as you wish. We prefer a more welcoming and comfortable environment for people of all tastes. Yes, I will cook vegetarian and gluten-free. I have done both aboard, at least by insuring there is enough of everything else they can eat. They would each get sick if they ate steak or bread. Their digestive systems are no longer accustom. The guest composter hangup is simply an issue that is fair for people to consider, but can dismiss if they choose. Depends on the guest you invite.

Perhaps the annoyance or anger that is often shown in response to raising this issue is from perceiving a criticism of choosing a composter. That is not my intent, I'm only attempting to offer considerations. If there is a system I am critical over, its the porta potty, due to the toxic chemicals that are required. However, even then, I understand their use when space is too limited for another solution.


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## amelia (Jan 6, 2011)

To my knowledge, no one has ever left my table hungry, and I am fairly certain that in many decades of feeding the multitude I haven't yet poisoned anybody. You may conclude thereby, that I offer sufficient variety that everyone can find something that suits. I just get tired of being berated by sanctimonious, self-absorbed folk who feel it their duty to lecture me on their preferences, and exhort me to do things their (obviously superior) way. 

I am grateful to say we have never had anyone refuse a boating invitation because our head didn't meet their snooty standards. Nobody has confessed to revulsion, concern, or confusion as to its use. Must be because here in the uncultured South, we ain't got no standards. Or maybe people around here have better manners. Either way, it works for me.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

amelia said:


> .....sanctimonious, self-absorbed folk
> 
> ....snooty standards.....
> 
> .....maybe people around here have better manners.....


One of the sanctimonious, self-absorbed folk with snooty standards aboard my ship is my daughter. She has been diagnosed with a digestive disorder that causes her to have to strictly manage her diet.

So, I would say you completely lack manners. You seem pretty angry that anyone offers a different perspective than yours.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

It's amazing the amount of psychic energy we all seem to put into this question. I say _sh!t and let sh!t_. As with most things in sailing and cruising, there is rarely only one right answer. Both styles of marine heads have advantages and disadvantages. Both work just fine, and neither have to smell if maintained properly. Being someone who has actually had and used both systems, my observations are:

*Standard head*
_Advantages:_

Works similar to a land head (although there is a wide range here).
Allows the owner/users a little more distance from their excrements (assuming someone else does all the pump out and maintenance work).
Likely already installed on any boat.
Individual parts are relatively inexpensive.
Can easily pump directly overboard when offshore (assuming Y-valve installation).
_Disadvantages:_

Capacity limited to holding tank size. Must use land-based pump-out facilities, or head off-shore to manage.
Higher operating cost due to need for pump outs (can be mitigated by going off-shore)
Complexity of system (toilet, pumps, macerators, intake water, outflow hoses, thru-hulls, holding tank, vent...).
Higher maintenance costs (due to complexity).
Occupies significant space, especially on smaller boats. 
System failures can be very bad since sewage is stored in liquid slurry form, not to mention thru-hull failure.
*Composting head*
_Advantages:_

Unit is self-contained -- very simple.
Small space demands (no holding tank, no hoses).
High capacity limits.
No need for pump out facilities.
No thru-hulls to maintain. 
No water usage.
Low operating cost (coir, some sugar, perhaps some plastic bags).
_Disadvantages:_

Looks and feels more different than a land-based head (highly subjective).
Must be slightly more intimate with your excrements when using (can see the pee bottle, must hand-crank the agitator).
Pee bottle must be emptied frequently.
Feces container harder to empty.
Males must sit (could be considered an advantage).
Higher initial cost (for some systems).
Long-term usage best limited to two, perhaps three crew size. 

There are probably some points I've missed, but I hope this will be helpful for anyone coming to this thread with the actual question: "Composting toilet-should we do it?"


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

I've only had a holding tank and a portapotty, but my experience and research concurs with O'Reilly's assessment, with the one addition of: holding tank spill containment differentials. Holding tanks generally spill into the bilge, which is far more difficult to completely clean, nooks and crannies and such. Of course one can fabricate for that.


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## Dean101 (Apr 26, 2011)

Is there any danger of "spillage" in the event of a knockdown? Also, on long passages, how do you plan on the amount of absorbant material needed to keep the head functional? It seems that if you run out of peat or whatever, the head could become problematic.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Dean101 said:


> Is there any danger of "spillage" in the event of a knockdown? Also, on long passages, how do you plan on the amount of absorbant material needed to keep the head functional? It seems that if you run out of peat or whatever, the head could become problematic.


I'd expect the pee bottle would spill some of its contents in the event of a serious knockdown (more than 90-degrees). It would mostly end up in the main compartment though. Of course, if this were to happen, then a bit of pee in the head is likely low on the problem list .

I use coir (compressed coconut husk) bricks. They are brick-size, and we use about 1.5 per month, full-time use for two people. I carry six months worth of material in an volume the size of a medium-sized bucket. You can use just about any dry absorbent material. I've heard of people using dried leaves, sawdust, peat, of course. Even mosses. You'd have to work hard to have a problem running out.



Multihullgirl said:


> I've only had a holding tank and a portapotty, but my experience and research concurs with O'Reilly's assessment, with the one addition of: holding tank spill containment differentials. Holding tanks generally spill into the bilge, which is far more difficult to completely clean, nooks and crannies and such. Of course one can fabricate for that.


Yes, perhaps I should have been more emphatic about this point. System failures can be very, VERY bad with standard marine heads. Even dealing with the seemingly common joker-valve clog can result in emotional scars that live for years .


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## Dean101 (Apr 26, 2011)

MikeOReilly said:


> I'd expect the pee bottle would spill some of its contents in the event of a serious knockdown (more than 90-degrees). It would mostly end up in the main compartment though. Of course, if this were to happen, then a bit of pee in the head is likely low on the problem list .
> 
> I use coir (compressed coconut husk) bricks. They are brick-size, and we use about 1.5 per month, full-time use for two people. I carry six months worth of material in an volume the size of a medium-sized bucket. You can use just about any dry absorbent material. I've heard of people using dried leaves, sawdust, peat, of course. Even mosses. You'd have to work hard to have a problem running out.
> 
> Yes, perhaps I should have been more emphatic about this point. System failures can be very, VERY bad with standard marine heads. Even dealing with the seemingly common joker-valve clog can result in emotional scars that live for years .


Sounds like it would be easy to plan accordingly for passages with only a relatively short period of experience in how many bricks you use. I'm guessing you could find a suitable material to restock pretty much anywhere in the world if the only specification is being dry and absorbent.

Regarding the spillage, I was more curious as to the risk of the solid waste spilling. I assumed the liquids would spill. Do you think the hinged covers would pretty much keep the solids contained or at least help to minimize spillage?


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## tjvanginkel (Sep 26, 2006)

I believe the c-head would spill its dry contents in a rollover, but unlikely in a knockdown. I don't think it would be hard to add some sort of latch to help prevent that if you were anticipating sailing into rough seas.
I can't speak to AH and NH but it would appear that the hatches would mitigate spillage in a rollover.
Howver that is a rather extreme and unlikely for most scenario.........


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

MikeOReilly said:


> It's amazing the amount of psychic energy we all seem to put into this question. I say _sh!t and let sh!t_. As with most things in sailing and cruising, there is rarely only one right answer. Both styles of marine heads have advantages and disadvantages. Both work just fine, and neither have to smell if maintained properly. Being someone who has actually had and used both systems, my observations are:
> 
> *Standard head*
> _Advantages:_
> ...


Hey Mike -- good list. To 'Disadvantages: Composter" you might add seat height & footprint. Most are around 19" -- 4 to 5" taller than your standard marine head. On older boats, smaller boats, or boats with rounded bilges, it can be challenging to fit a composter w/out your head bumping the ceiling. Also, because they are essentially a bucket, they have less cutaway at the pedestal base than many marine heads & may bump against the curved hull. I see C-Head is offering new designs with the corners clipped, plus one to accommodate the platform of the Mac26. We may need to custom fab one using a shorter 4 gallon bucket due to limited headroom, with pee bottle off to the side for more ankle space.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Dean101 said:


> Regarding the spillage, I was more curious as to the risk of the solid waste spilling. I assumed the liquids would spill. Do you think the hinged covers would pretty much keep the solids contained or at least help to minimize spillage?


On our NH (can't speak for the others for certain), the main compartment is sealed, with hefty locking snaps. The trap door would be closed by gravity if it got over on its side. I think the only way you'd get spillage the whole thing came unbolted from the floor during a rollover.


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

Looked at the Airhead at the boat show. I should think that it would be pretty well sealed against spillage, what with its gasketed seat and cover and latched-down containers.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

MikeOReilly said:


> On our NH (can't speak for the others for certain), the main compartment is sealed, with hefty locking snaps. The trap door would be closed by gravity if it got over on its side. I think the only way you'd get spillage the whole thing came unbolted from the floor during a rollover.


This is one of the things that worried me about the C-Head. It looks like even in rough weather the top could lift up and let the bucket and jug jostle around.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

miatapaul said:


> This is one of the things that worried me about the C-Head. It looks like even in rough weather the top could lift up and let the bucket and jug jostle around.


Agreed, although I bet you could find a way to secure things down with a CH. I do know NH would be perfectly secure since it consists of only two rotomolded pieces that are snapped together with hefty latches. I gather AH is similar.



bobmcgov said:


> Hey Mike -- good list. To 'Disadvantages: Composter" you might add seat height & footprint. Most are around 19" -- 4 to 5" taller than your standard marine head. On older boats, smaller boats, or boats with rounded bilges, it can be challenging to fit a composter w/out your head bumping the ceiling. Also, because they are essentially a bucket, they have less cutaway at the pedestal base than many marine heads & may bump against the curved hull. I see C-Head is offering new designs with the corners clipped, plus one to accommodate the platform of the Mac26. We may need to custom fab one using a shorter 4 gallon bucket due to limited headroom, with pee bottle off to the side for more ankle space.


Yes, good point Bob. I believe the AH and CH have a few different sized options. NH is one size. On our boat it fit fine, but I bet it would be quite the squeeze on a 26-footer. You should post some pics if you get one installed.


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## Multihullgirl (Dec 2, 2010)

I wondered the same thing as bobmcgov until I saw this video. Note the underside of the lid, with its tube which slips into the neck of the jug. The crank framework would hold the bucket. The thing would be to make sure the lid would latch, something easily added if you need it.


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## bratzcpa (Oct 18, 2011)

Getting back to the original poster . . . we installed a Natures Head in our Catalina 27 before our two-month live aboard trip in the Bahamas. 

Bottom line - it worked GREAT. A few bits of strangeness to get used to: guys gotta sit down to pee (hey, we are actually able to do this), remember to empty the pee bucket before it's 100% full.

Absolutely no smell on board. 

We had to "change" to new peat moss after about a month and a half of full time aboard living (two adults). 

This was a HUGE improvement over the messing around with vacuum extracting the tank, leaking pipes, plugged macerator pump, and the smell permeating the plumbing (after a few years).

They seem ridiculously expensive, but well built and solid. Good quality stainless fittings. 

We are very pleased with this solution - would absolutely do again.

~markb


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

Multihullgirl said:


> I wondered the same thing as bobmcgov until I saw this video. Note the underside of the lid, with its tube which slips into the neck of the jug. The crank framework would hold the bucket. The thing would be to make sure the lid would latch, something easily added if you need it.


Nah, it wuz Dean who worried about spillage. In my personal experience, any near-death experience (like having your boat wholly inverted) tends to leave one sanguine about earthy chores like wiping feces off the ceiling. You might even grin as you shovel up the mess. Cuz you are aware at a cellular level that this is you, *alive*, cleaning up poop, and isn't today a glorious day for poop cleaning?

One of the happiest mornings ever was spent gathering a couple dozen pieces of aluminum climbing gear that had scattered all over the talus field when the gear bag burst upon being hammer-thrown thirty yards from the tent in the midst of the kind of epic mountain thunderstorm CGI people _wish_ they could replicate. The metal bits were visibly glowing and making popping noises before I chucked 'em; those were three hours I really did not expect to see the other side of.

Playing "find the camming devices" next morning felt a rare privilege.  And yeah, a lid latch will solve any question of ballistic turds.


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## Dean101 (Apr 26, 2011)

I wouldn't say I was all that worried about it so much as just curious. I plan on eventually doing some long distance passages and the ability to secure any opening lids seem fairly important to me. I will have no problem scrubbing feces off the overhead should I ever find myself in conditions so bad that my boat rolls and I live through it. As they say, s#!t happens. I just think a knockdown is much more likely than a rollover and I was curious as to how well these types of heads hold in the crap in a 90 to 100 degree knockdown. Much like how well will the closures on my cabinets keep the dishes where they're suppose to be in the same situation.


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