# Grampian 26 Questions



## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

Looking at a used grampian 26, it would need to be sailed/motored from past Boston down and around Manhattan eventually.

What should I be looking at on that model, in terms of typical pitfalls and weak points?

What's a good way to make that trip as well, and how challenging is that?

Finally, between those two spots, if I need to leave the boat as a transient or haul along the way, where are good recommendations?


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Can't say anything about the journey, but owned a Grampian 34 and have sailed 26s. They are solid, bare-bones, older boats. The issues you may have are common to most boats of this age. Most common issues will be to do with the deck. Water intrusion into the core is likely. Leaking deck flange, or just through the toe rail bolt holes. Unless the boat has suffered hard groundings, the hull is solid and very tough. Shouldn't be any problem. Standing rigging will need to be checked. 

The nice thing about Grampians is that most structural components are easily accessible, so checking them is pretty easy.

Just remembered ... they made a drop-keel version. Have never seen one, but you'll need to check that whole mechanism if this is one.


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## Tanski (May 28, 2015)

A friend of mine has one (26), I don't know the full background but he did replace a bulkhead this spring. Rotted out due to water damage.
I have no idea where the leaks were that caused the damage. He got a good bulkhead out of a scrapped boat.
Grampion 28 in the marina has some water damage from leaking chainplates.
I consider both instances to be owner and not boat related, any boat will leak if not maintained. Just something to check.
Grampion makes a good solid basic boat!


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

As to the trip, it's pretty easy. Down the coast past Boston to the Cape Cod Canal, through the Canal and then down Buzzards Bay. Then along the southern Mass/RI coast to the Watch Hill Passage or Race into Long Island Sound. Then west through the Sound to NY. Could be made in a couple of days in the right weather and with a crew that's willing to sail overnight. Maybe a week or so harbor hopping with a less experienced crew. Only tricky parts are the Canal and the WH Passage or Race. You have to time the currents. Lots of ports along the entire route to bail out if needed so you are never forced into a long hop in bad weather.


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## jimq26 (Nov 7, 2001)

You may wish to do some research re the G-26 - here's the best link - Grampian 26 Home Page

Fantastic strong/fast/safe boats. Won our yacht club overall racing championship back in 2002 sailing a 1973 G-26. Many cruises across Lake Ontario with the grandkids.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

Just got back from taking a look... So:

Autopilot, tiller piston model, reportedly works.

Main is 5 years old, roller furling jib is a replacement from two years ago but was used when put on. Main sail cover is unfaded and appears in good shape.

The roller furling drum moves without binding and I didn't see any chafing on the line, but the powder coat is mostly worn away on the drum.

Running rigging in decent shape, standing rigging hasn't been replaced in at least ten years but is solid and clean without any broken strands I could find.

Batteries and electrical appear to work.

Digital raymarine depth and knotmeter work.

Very new compass in forward wall of cockpit.

Rudder replaced at some point with new.

Mariner 9.9 four stroke with supposed annual tune ups, charges batteries, electric start, runs and moves the boat around well.

Didn't get to sail it, which I hadn't really expected anyhow...

Stock water tank replaced with soft sided drinking water bladder, two years old.

Propane stove works.

Newer vhf radio needs to have antenna installed.

Head has a weird holding tank arrangement... Really not inland suitable as the holding tank doesn't have a shore pump out, but does run external water in, flush with macerator... But the tank will only really be emptied out while underway. This last isn't a huge deal, I can get a small toilet for emergency use while in littoral water.

Through hull fittings are at least partially replaced with updated plastics.

Bilge pump and breaker panel both work.

It was hauled, scraped, sanded and professionally bottom painted this past spring.

I didn't see any mildew or smell any mustiness down below.

Some gelcoat cracks, stanchions are firm, other hardware on deck had no looseness I could feel. Deck was solid to my best pressure, no odd shaped spots or softness.

Should I bother with a survey at this point, or is it not worth the $300-$400?

What price is fair? I've got an offer that's accepted as far as owner and ebay are concerned, felt pretty sure it was a decent bet, but thought I'd see what the collective hive here figured?


Thanks for the encouragement, all. I'm pretty sure I may have just bought my first boat


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

What are the procedures for getting permission to run the cape cod canal?

When is the most opportune time to attempt the transit? I would assume an early AM slack tide window would be somewhat ideal, but I am not entirely sure what a local might suggest.


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

I had a Grampian 26 for about a decade. It was my first keelboat, and I liked it a lot. I can't think of anything peculiar to the Grampian 26 that you need to look out for. My main concern would be with any water intrusion in the deck, but that's my main concern with just about any boat. 

I like the idea of getting a survey. 

I'd probably want the surveyor to pay special attention to the mast support area. There is no conventional mast support inside the boat, as you're likely aware. The mast sits on a beefy (hopefully) beam and likely receives some support from the bulkheads. I'd want to know there isn't any water intrusion or other defects in that system. That said, I'm not aware that this is a weak point in the G26. 

The bulkheads are formica covered, and the formica can hide rot. The chainplates are not attached to the bullheads, but of course, they're still structural. I'm not sure how you or a surveyor can tell what's under the formica. Tapping? 

The chainplates have their own attachment glassed into the hull. It would be good to know the condition of the wood core of the chainplate attachments. Possibly remove a bolt and inspect the hole with an icepick? If rotted, and you aren't up for doing the repair yourself, walk away. If you're at all handy with glasswork, it shouldn't be a real tricky repair, though. 

There isn't much else if anything that's hidden on a Grampian. If you're of a reasonable size, you can wiggle into all the spaces. Mine had some tabbing at the bulkheads when I got it, but that was a simple repair. 

As part of the inspection, you might want to remove the tiller. Just need a couple wrenches. On my boat, the tiller had become rotted where it attaches to the metal hardware. Take it off, and see if there's any soft wood there...check inside the bolt holes. If rotted, you decide. I made a new tiller for mine. 

I only had three gripes with my Grampian. 
1. They're a little on the ugly side. They look nice under sail, though. 
2. Too much weather helm. 
3. The side decks are too narrow. 

Those are just quirks the boat has. 

The headroom in the cabin is "standing" for most people. As I recall, it had standing headroom even in the forward cabin. More than my current Catalina 28. Most of the ugliness of the boat is a result of that ample headroom in the forward cabin. 

I liked the cutout in the transom for the outboard, as it made it extremely easy to access the engine controls and to use the engine's tiller in concert with the boat's tiller for handling in tight spaces. By the way, I operated my boat in the steep, tightly packed waves on Lake Michigan, and recall that the long shaft engine kept it's prop in the water very well. I remember one trip where we were motoring down the coast in tall waves with another, similar sized sailboat a hundred yards off our beam. On that trip, the prop occasionally exited there water, but at the same time, were were routinely able to get a good look at the fin keel of the boat next to us as it crested waves. I would rate the G26 very high in this regard. 

I can't comment on what a fair price would be, other than not a lot. We're not talking about a Tartan, here. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to be selling one. I don't say that out of any disrespect for the boats, only that they aren't high on most people's want lists. And they're not the prettiest girl at the ball. 

Nice boats. Good luck.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Nothing jumps out at me from your survey overview. Lots of good stuff in fact, but there will be issues. I'd be shocked if there aren't some soft deck issues, but as long as they are small (as suggested by your survey), they aren't a huge deal.

I won't hazard a specific number, but Gramps in my area sell in the small to middlin' thousand range. A really fine model (which this may be) could fetch close to $10K.

Sounds like you have good boat. Enjoy :svoilier:


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

Did you mean in the $1500 range, or in the $5000 range?

Either way, I'm okay with the price, just wanted to get a sense of what the actual "value" might be.

My main feeling was that all the steps I've heard recommended seem to have been taken in keeping the boat updated: winches are replacement models, the sheeting arrangement for the main is run through a traveller across the cockpit instead of the fixed points on the stern, and it had the general look and feel of a boat that was and had been sailed consistently, which is far less concerning than the boat sitting on the hard for a year, or in a backyard for 10... the prior owner who still keeps it at his mooring offered to meet me part of the way through the passage to handle the transfer, which gives me a sense that they have confidence in the boat holding up under way.


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## jimq26 (Nov 7, 2001)

MikeOReilly said:


> Nothing jumps out at me from your survey overview. Lots of good stuff in fact, but there will be issues. I'd be shocked if there aren't some soft deck issues, but as long as they are small (as suggested by your survey), they aren't a huge deal.
> 
> I won't hazard a specific number, but Gramps in my area sell in the small to middlin' thousand range. A really fine model (which this may be) could fetch close to $10K.
> 
> Sounds like you have good boat. Enjoy :svoilier:


Sold my '73 G-26 in 2014 for $8000. Buyer got one hell of a good solid boat for that price and he's HAPIS (happy as a pig in s---!!)


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

jimq26 said:


> Sold my '73 G-26 in 2014 for $8000. Buyer got one hell of a good solid boat for that price and he's HAPIS (happy as a pig in s---!!)


Sounds about right. I've seen G26s listed as low as $1k, and as high as $12k. Sadly, these older boats (like mine) have been taking a beating in the market over the last few years. But I guess that's good for new owners.

To answer your question superslomo, my view is that a boat's value is up to the owner/buyer. If it's as good as you say, and it makes your heart beat a little faster when you look at her, and you can afford her, then she's a good value.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

By some insane confluence of ebay circumstances, I got what seems like the deal of a lifetime, in that case... I can't quite believe it, and getting to make a passage through the Sound will be just the icing on the cake. I think I've dreamt of running Hell Gate into the city since I was a kid, before I even knew what it was


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

Also, just really wanted to thank everyone who voiced their perspectives and opinion here, it helped make the decision an easy/easier one, despite current personal circumstances this was not to be missed as it came together. Hoping that nothing unexpected crops up, but as of now I'm settled and looking forward to/planning the return trip.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Around here they generally ask around $5K for a G-26.

If I bought one with alloy holey rails on the deck joint the first thing I'd do would be to buy those stanchion bases that bolt over the rail - you can get them via the C&C website.

They would move the stanchions outboard enough that you could actually use those crazy skinny side decks. Going forward over that high cabin top in anything but flat calm is an adventure.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

So, happily sorted out on a price that seems better than alright, and it does indeed have the aluminum toe rails... does that still use the same set of stanchions and lifelines, then, or do you need to re-run all of those? I'm loath to start pulling things off before I've gotten the hang of the boat, and with the roller furling it should hopefully be possible to do a bit less cabin top scrambling, but we'll see. The present co-owner looked at me balefully and gave his dim view of people who found the foredeck hard to get to, and I'll have to see whether I agree with him or not


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Here's the page with the info on them. If your stanchions have separate tubes & bases the only factor in changing would be tube diameter. They are pretty standard at 1" O/D though.

Hardly an urgent thing to do but I think it would make a big improvement to one of those boats. I last sailed one 40 years ago and still remember how useless the side decks were and how high the top of the cabin was when going forward.

Holland Marine Products¨


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I'd second the stanchion upgrade. If I have one criticism of Gramp 26s (and my old Gramp 34, but interestingly, not the 30s) is the side decks are too small. The benefit is that the living space down below is maximized. The 26s are very large 26s. And they're good sailors, but getting around on the deck is a bit of pain. 

Every boat has it's own set of compromises. It's nothing that can't be managed, but pushing the stanchions out onto the toe rail is one easy way to gain a significant amount of deck space.


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## End80 (Jan 7, 2011)

I watched that auction, and almost bid on it even though it was 1000 miles away from me and I already have a Grampian 26. I was very tempted because mine has no rollor furler or auto pilot, nor some of the other extras that one has, and even with the cost of transport, all those extras would have been worth the price... Mine I bought about 6 months ago for $1000 and another $500 for the motor, and feel I got an excellent deal. I love my G26!.. But it kind of hurt me to see that one one eBay go for so cheap... Congratulations to you!


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## End80 (Jan 7, 2011)

Google "Grampian 26 Worlds Largest 26 Footer" to check out my blog about e Grampian 26, there's a lot of interesting info I compiled there under the "Intermission" section that's not even found at the Grampian owners website. I tried to post a direct link but I don't have enough post here to enable me that right.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

I watched that video the other day  I was trying to game plan out what the experience of being underway motoring might be as I might have some to do solo, and would probably just try and motor along.

How many knots did you find yourself making at solid speed on the outboard? I'm just trying to ballpark some guesstimates on timing.

Also, reading the blog... I think the pictures make the trunk front look more vertical than it is on the '74. I recall it seeming rounded off in general, how it seemed up close at least.

Trip planning for this is interesting, new experience, as this is the first real passage I'll undertake under my own direction...


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## End80 (Jan 7, 2011)

I motored mine about 80 miles transport when I bought it with a Honda 9.9 and averaged about 7 knots according to GPS, but the bottom had not been scraped in a couple years (I was told), so if it had, it probably would have been faster.. or so that is my assumption.


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## End80 (Jan 7, 2011)

Correction... 7mph not knots, I was using a car GPS, and most of the time it showed about 7mph, sometimes as high as 8 or even 9, and sometimes as low as 6mph.. It seemed that all the sailboats I saw during the trip was going the opposite direction, so it seems we were traveling against the wind


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## Siamese (May 9, 2007)

Congrats on getting the G26. Were it me, I'd leave the stanchions alone for the foreseeable future. On the one hand, they tend to get in your way on those skinny side decks, but on the other hand, they're a good quality stanchion. They're the old style two-piece (separate base and tube). If you bend one, you just bend or replace the tube, and you can easily remove them if you want to put a tarp or cover over the boat for storage. 

Yeah, the decks are skinny, but no boat's perfect. It's just a quirk that you deal with. There are handrails on the top for going forward, and if it gets really rough, you should be in a harness with a jackline, anyway. 

I have a feeling your new boat is going to let you know where money really needs to be spent.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

I'm going to have to get some kind of solar trickle charger, if I possibly can, and then build some battery capacity if it's needed. Bimini would be nice as well.

I'm trying to figure out whether winter in water means any problems I haven't contemplated.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

So yeah, the money will get spent on the needed and the possibly needed, hopefully slowly... I'd rather see for a little while how it feels and then make decisions over time about making it more personal...


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## End80 (Jan 7, 2011)

superslomo said:


> I'm going to have to get some kind of solar trickle charger, if I possibly can, and then build some battery capacity if it's needed. Bimini would be nice as well.
> .


I highly suggest getting a Renogy Mono solar panel and a controller for it as opposed to one of those foldable portable units.. It does cost more but the difference is big.. They are built to last and hold up against the elements, plus the mono crystal panels are a lot less fussy about requiring direct sunlight. A ten watt panel will keep your battery topped off nicely as well as provide plenty of juice for basics like lights fans and radio.. However, if you have plans of heavier use, you might want to opt for larger panels now.

currently on mine, is a 10w panel and controller, and it is enough, but I'm planning to try living on it for awhile and adding refrigeration and other electronic needs so I bought a couple 100w panels and a Goal Zero Yeti unit


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## jimq26 (Nov 7, 2001)

Siamese said:


> Congrats on getting the G26. Were it me, I'd leave the stanchions alone for the foreseeable future.  On the one hand, they tend to get in your way on those skinny side decks, but on the other hand, they're a good quality stanchion. They're the old style two-piece (separate base and tube). If you bend one, you just bend or replace the tube, and you can easily remove them if you want to put a tarp or cover over the boat for storage.
> 
> Yeah, the decks are skinny, but no boat's perfect. It's just a quirk that you deal with. There are handrails on the top for going forward, and if it gets really rough, you should be in a harness with a jackline, anyway.
> 
> I have a feeling your new boat is going to let you know where money really needs to be spent.


*The old inboard stantion poles will also fit the C&C toe rail mounts and are removable as well.
*


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

I think it's fine to give it a season and find out what really bugs you and what doesn't.

I expect the importance of the side deck issue will mostly depend on a) whether you have headsail furling, b) how often you actually change headsails and c) how often you expect to be anchoring.

However I'm betting it would be a modification you would come to appreciate.


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## nhsail (Aug 7, 2000)

G26's are basically inshore boats, but then everyone's usage is mostly within sight of land. 

We had many running out of Sodus Bay back in the late '60s and early '70s, racing, crossing Ontario etc. 

As with any commercially built boat that old: look for water ingression into the laminate giving you blisters, and as noted re-bed/seal all your deck penetrations. 
Your standing rigging is worth a survey, or a wipedown with cotton balls (look for snags) and I'd check for cracking on turnbuckles, swages and mast tangs.

They sail pretty well in < 15 kts, and motor all right in < 4' seas. 

Above those and you will not be comfortable, though you would be likely safe enough sailing in sight of land. A traveller will be a big help to balance.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

So, yes it does have headsail roller furling, which helps minimize the need for foredeck adventures. I'm expecting anchoring will be frequent on the trip bringing it home, but it will otherwise most often be on a mooring or in a slip in the coming months.

Thanks for the suggestions on wind and wave conditions, nhsail that are likely to be workable, I was puzzling about that. Would sailing be a doable thing above 15kts of wind if you reef down, or is that not sufficient?

For the side decks it seems like it would great, all else being equal, to have the extra room. It'll be on the list of nice-to-have things, but I'll see how my budget eats itself.

I did run hands across all the standing rigging I could get to, and had no sharp points that I could find. More than that, we'll hope it all comes together...


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## Faster (Sep 13, 2005)

The G26 will likely revel in winds over 15 knots, she needs a bit of a breeze to get going downwind, but is surprisingly quick on the beat (from our observations). We raced against one for years in an area known for solid breezes 15-20K on a daily basis. Well sailed, they go pretty well even if they aren't the 'prettiest girls at the dance'


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## nhsail (Aug 7, 2000)

As regards, wind/waves there's a difference in capability and comfort and "spousal comfort". 

I personally prefer to sail in 10-15 kts as there's enough to make Lioness move with the 160%, and not so much that I feel I want to have younger crew to grind the winches. At 20-30 kts, we are reefed and using smaller headsails, above 30 kts its just unpleasant, with multiple reefs, contemplating storm sails, etc. 

I have sailed in lake waves at 8-10 feet which are nasty, and ocean waves of 12 feet that were gentle. If the period of the wave is less than the height, you don't want to be out there... 

My wife is more comfortable at 5-10 kts, and smaller waves. Starting a modest challenges and moving up, is a good way to retain crew. 

Before you set out, I'd be tracking the forecasts for a few days, know where your harbors of refuge are, and have made darn sure that your fuel system is clean. (bouncing through the standing waves at the Buzzards Bay end of the Cape Cod Canal taught me about dislodging slime in a diesel tank)

You will appreciate the wider side decks when heeling.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

Finally got together a trip out for a half day sail... It's the bluest water I've sailed, and while my stomach wasn't entirely happy, the boat sailed like a charm.

Second anchor is present, rode on both has ten foot markers woven in, felt like a nice touch.

Also, glad to see that the through hulls were no longer the original gate valves, but had plastic sea cocks, with doubled steel hose clamps on the hoses. 

Motor ran well, as far as I could tell, with a little stutter once but it seemed to be pretty consistent.

The nearly open ocean sailing will be hopefully only about a day of the trip home, I think. Thankfully, as well... Otherwise I need to come up with a way, way better solution for sickness.

And, having worked on the deck, I think I'm going to definitely prioritize the stanchion toe rail update.

She's got a spinnaker babased on board, but I'm not sure how you run one when you have a roller furling setup... Is it something that necessitates adding rigging?


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## albrazzi (Oct 15, 2014)

Full or asmy spin? different needs for each.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

I'm afraid I didn't unpack it to see, as we were getting ready to head off the dock when I saw it stowed under the v-berth. I'm not sure it gets used much at all, given that the boat is not raced, and often sailed single-handed, and generally for cruising trips or open ocean day sails. 

I will have to figure this out when I get her home, and see what the requirements would be to get it up. I can't figure out how you'd hoist it, with a roller furling jib on, there would have to be another halyard, wouldn't there?


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## nhsail (Aug 7, 2000)

You would want a spinnaker halyard to be separate from a Jib halyard in all cases. 

It should be rigged on a "Crane" above the headstay to allow gybing. 

Ideally you would hoist & drop with the jib up, to minimize chance of a wrap. 

With the Spinnaker halyard, you have a spare, which is always good, and you can hoist a second jib poled out to windward if going down wind as a "double head" rig.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

I'm going to fool about with that whole question next time the mast comes down, perhaps. I have never had any real experience hoisting and dousing spinnakers, and I'm not in a race mode... but, if the sail is in a bag on the boat, it would be nice to know one COULD run it if one chose.

The one other thing I'm going to have to investigate, though it's also not as important to me (as I'll hopefully be on a town mooring without power anyhow) is that the shore power system has been disconnected. Not sure exactly how it was disconnected, and there is a shore power connector in the cockpit, but it's intentionally non-working. I'm going to have to do some checking around and see exactly how the system would work, and whether it can be restored for comparatively reasonable cost.


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

superslomo said:


> I'm trying to figure out whether winter in water means any problems I haven't contemplated.


Was it in the water last winter, or are you considering in the water storage next winter? I keep my boat in the water during the winter, but the marina (West Haverstraw, NY) has bubbelers to keep the water from freezing up as it is Hudson River water so brackish. I had no water in the water and holding tank last winter and the engine was winterized no issues. We had about 50 boats in the water last winter but it was also very mild winter. But out of the water is certainly safer. I would not keep her on a mooring in the winter around here though, too much could go wrong and you would not be able to get out to her for most of the winter. Where do you plan on keeping her? Looking at the listing looks nice for the money.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

People winter onboard on the north shore of Lake Ontario (Ontario, Canada). Never done it, but have looked into it. Dockside, bubblers, and good insulation. Need a good heat source. Not my cup of tea, but many do it up here, so way down south where you are should certainly be possible 

Shore power... probably silly to say, but be very careful reconnecting it. Sounds like it was disconnected for a reason. No reason not to have shore power. Not hard to wire. But be careful playing with old, unknown wiring-- especially AC wiring. 

I've only ever owned asym spinnakers. Pretty easy to use, although more than a new sailor would want to play with. Heck, I wouldn't hoist one alone (although our boat is bigger, with bigger forces). Don't rush. Get the feel of your new boat. She's a good one.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

Funny you should mention it... Haverstraw was where I was thinking about doing winter in water, given the extended season it provides, and the cost.

Anything special to do about bilge or other plumbing? The through hulls are updated, the pipes are double clamped... I had figured some drinking water safe antifreeze in places that get wet?

As to the spinnaker, I hadn't figured there was one, but since it's in the bag I started puzzling over whether it would even work given the latter roller furling addition. I'd be curious to learn how as an exercise, but it's not something I have to have anytime soon.

Once I get her home, I can get the hang of the boat on our tamer waters. The return trip is going to be a bit more of a challenge, but hopefully uneventful. The boat appears ready for anything, I'm going to try and keep up and not get in the way


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

If you're wintering in the water, with a heat source in the boat, you shouldn't have to worry about stuff freezing. If you're at all concerned, then yes, dumping some plumber's antifreeze in the bilge and through out the plumbing (water, head, etc) is the way to go. 

As I say, I've never wintered in the water, but you may need to winterize the engine ... check with what other people do in your area. Winterizing an inboard really just means getting all the water out by running antifreeze through the heat exchanger system. Of course, if it's an outboard (sorry ... forget which you have), then winterizing is easy. Pull it off and find a warm garage.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

It is winter in water in a brackish spot on the estuary, which may help, and the circulator will help one hopes as well.

It is indeed an outboard, which is a plus.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

IMO if you are in brackish water in a freezing area you'd be better off in salt. It rarely gets cold enough here to freeze fresh water but due to two streams entering it, my marina is brackish - a heavy layer of fresh on top of the salt actually - and I have seen it freeze hard enough that a fully grown Black Lab could walk on it. The other (non-brackish) marinas around here were completely clear.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

Strange. I wonder what other things, if any, might have been different between them. I know on the Hudson, there's a "salt line" just north of West Point where the river gets fresh enough to freeze all the way across. Below there you may see blocks of northern ice floating along, but I've never seen it freeze.


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## nhsail (Aug 7, 2000)

The other aspect of winterizing is to make sure you don't have any place where water will accumulate and freeze on board. Your cockpit floor for example, needs to drain well, unless your boat is well covered to keep snow/sleet/rain off. 

If you are going to cover, its pretty easy to use the mast as the ridge pole, build a few frames to hold it, strapped to your lifeline stanchions and throw a good tarp over the top. 

Wintering without a cover in snow is not a lot of fun, and pretty hard on the deck.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

Some news, not really good news, but hopefully you guys can provide some perspective...

Word by email from the owner, sailing the boat down to meet me in Newport, indicated he had had a failure in the forestay, and is on his way to a yard on the way, where they can do the work, and I'll have to figure things out with the rigger.

Everything else appears to have been undamaged, and I'm going to hear more from the rigger when they check the boat tomorrow, but...

Given that we may be talking about the original wire, and fittings, if I'm going to do the forestay replacement, should I plan to just replace the entire set of standing rigging as a precaution, or is that excessive?

I'd rather not get caught out with any other issues, but I'm not sure whether to trust the rigger and the yard from a few hours drive away, and whether it is a wise or overly cautious idea to assume that where one wire is toast, the rest may not be far behind.

Any advice to an idiot feeling his way through the dark is much appreciated.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

The headstay takes more load & wear than the other rigging but if it broke it's likely that the others won't be far behind.

I'd do it all now. Assuming everything but the wire is still usable (turnbuckles, toggles, tangs etc.) it won't be that expensive.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I had a Grampian 30, she was a fantastic boat.

I wouldn't trust an unknown yard for an supervised rigging replacement, not a chance.

If it were me, I'd have them make the necessary emergency repairs then get the boat close to home where I can manage the quality and expense of the project. 

Actually, I'd do it myself.

Get whatever stays and shrouds needed professionally made, but install them yourself.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

It seems to be a good yard, and the current owner is there to discuss the initial part of the work. I have to confess that I'm honestly not capable of replacing the rigging myself, at least not at present. I'm going to look into the person doing the quote for the rigging work, and try and ascertain whether they're considered a good resource, but while I can be there to check it subsequently, I'm not going to be able to necessarily be there to check the work in progress, as I can't get away from my job today, and it's a 7 hour round trip driving.

Not sure what to do, but I'm going to see what they come back with later today...


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

If you are nervous about the yard then do what Arcb suggested - fix the broken stuff there and do the rest when you get it home. If they find things like fishhooks or cracked swages on the remaining rigging I see two options - have them do it all (assuming they check out) or tie off the halyards to take some load off the rigging and motor it home.


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

Get em all replaced and the chainplates too if they are original. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Read the whole thread. How about some pictures?


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

Pictures as soon as I can find some time to get signed on from my cell, where they are all stored...

There were no fishhooks, and I didn't see cracks, but there are bits of rusty discoloration along the fittings on the steel wire.

I think I'm comfortable with the yard it's heading to now, and I'll be able to go and look in person as the work proceeds.

The current/transitioning owner has filed this as an insurance claim, though I'm not convinced they'll see it as anything more than wear and tear. We shall see. It does mean that I'm holding on to find out the outcome of the inspection before I can get the work done in either case.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

FWIW I replaced one lower shroud on my boat 5 years ago when we first got her - just the one. Since then I have inspected both ends of the rigging up close each year and nothing has needed replacing.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

I don't know whether the roller furling was installed on the original forestay, or not. Maybe this is just a simple matter of a new stay through the roller furling rig, which would be great news... but, one yard locally has told me that they could install a new furling rig (CDI Flex Furler) with the internal stay on it, for around $1k all in... it might be sensible to replace the old furler at the same time, given that I don't know who made it, and the fittings might not be salvageable. It also went down and was in the water in some form...

All I saw on the standing rigging was some rusty discoloration around the ends of the wire, but I'm not sure that that's cause to take it down and replace it in and of itself. When you inspect, what are you looking for? I always thought it was cracked fittings and fishhooks, as mentioned above... the forestay was inside the furler, I think it also snapped right at the swage/tension adjustment fitting.


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## overbored (Oct 8, 2010)

You are looking for corrosion and meat hooks and the timespan the rigging has be used to hold up the rig. any time the rig is up the stays are vibrating and will work harden until they fail. any corrosion makes it happen faster. ten years is a good time to replace. its what you can't see that is the biggest problem.
If you broke one, then they all should be replaced. If the yard can install a CDI and stay for around 1k ( I doubt they can ) get a hard on paper quote. Around 1k is like $1999 at most yards.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

It seems like by all accounts the standing rigging is original, which is to say 40 years old.

I knew that this was likely to become and issue, and I suppose it's good it didn't happen further off shore, with me solo on board before I could get it attended to.

Bummer, but it is what it is... I'm tempted to say that I'll just get the whole lot done, but I have to see what kind of budget I have to work on presently.

The guys seemed pretty certain about the installed pricing on the CDI, he brought it up as the concern existed about re-mounting the furling presently in place (said to be 10 years old, made by Alado, as far as I can ascertain, per the current owner's recall, etc.) If the CDI has the stay built in, and makes sail changes on the furler easier if needed, I'm thinking it might be a relatively sensible idea. I'm going to call my local yards where I'll be keeping the boat and make sure someone reps CDI, but if so I'll consider the idea. If a new furler is only a few hundred on top of the new stay, I may be saving myself further headache.

So, big picture: if it has hooks, replace it... if the swages are cracked, replace it... if it's 40 years old, replace it 

I'm going to head up, motor the boat to the other yard, which has a crane on site, and hope that their pricing is a bit more manageable. The first rigger seemed completely capable, just taking a pretty conservative approach (replacing all the hardware to the deck, as opposed to checking wiring and swages and replacing those as needed), and had to add in the $125/trip crane charges, and/or the mast removal charge if it became required, at $90/hour for labor. The second option has a crane on site, and is not directly charging retail rates for that portion of the work.

Now, I'll have to just hope that Buzzards Bay is reasonably mellow with under 7kts of wind blowing tomorrow.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Basically, what I do ... look at the say - very closely and if you can see _*anything*_ wrong..... corrosion, hooks, cracking..bending of the thimble...it is highly suspect and - basically you change it. Good rigging looks a lot like new rigging.

A new stay for that boat is probably $250.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

The mast had to come down after all, it seems. Once it became clear that additional pieces of the rig needed work while we were doing work generally, it began to seem like the sensible choice.

There are two other shrouds (one upper and one lower) that are looking like they need replacement, along with a turnbuckle, in addition to the forestayy. The old furling rig is likely to be replaced. The damages including all the labor and other details seems to put it at about $2k, along with checking old rigging and doing some small jobs up on the masthead. This per the written estimate. The furler is the CDI flex-furler that will be going on. The rigger essentially said that we could spend labor hours trying to get the older Alado furler refitted, but it might not work and would still be running charges at $70/hour. I'm living with the unpleasant truth, I guess.

It's also possibly going to buy me time that I would have otherwise spent paying for mooring fees, which are seeming like they're being reduced or waived while we have work upcoming/pending. So, I'm still feeling happy with the choice of the yard, and it'll hopefully all come out right at the end.


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

$2k doesn't sound bad for a new rig including furler. Not bad at all.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

$2K for a good rig & new furler is cheap.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

He is leaving the backstay and some of the shrouds, but sounds like he's looked everything over pretty carefully. The backstay is my primary worry that remains, but they seem to have taken a pretty careful look.

Trying to get a reasonable ballpark on trip planning for this upcoming run home. I know the boat will motor happily at around 5kts, and I can bring spare fuel. Is a 50 nautical mile day an unreasonable plan? I've spoken to some friends who've said they'd figure on around 30 per day, but there are some spots where that just won't get me to the next port...


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

superslomo said:


> He is leaving the backstay and some of the shrouds, but sounds like he's looked everything over pretty carefully. The backstay is my primary worry that remains, but they seem to have taken a pretty careful look.
> 
> Trying to get a reasonable ballpark on trip planning for this upcoming run home. I know the boat will motor happily at around 5kts, and I can bring spare fuel. Is a 50 nautical mile day an unreasonable plan? I've spoken to some friends who've said they'd figure on around 30 per day, but there are some spots where that just won't get me to the next port...


The answer is super weather dependent. You might sail all day at 6 knots with a good broad reach, or motor at 2.5 into a head sea. I don't think it would take much of a head sea to slow down a Grampian 26. Maybe plan on 30 and consider it a bonus if you get 50?


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

This entire experience has been filled with strange coincidences, as well.

I went and looked at her the first time on Father's Day. When I was bringing her up from New Bedford, this past Friday, I got word that my father had passed away after long illness, right around the time I was passing out of the harbor channel past the hurricane barrier. I only got the word after I arrived at Mattapoisett, as my mom didn't want me distracted. I spent the rest of the day driving back to the hudson valley, and then to the city to be with family.

Then, this weekend, I got a call from the harbor master here in town at home, there is a mooring unused that I can tie up at as a resident for the remainder of the season, once I get her home... and, in talking to him, I found out that his own first boat was a 1969 Grampian 26(!!) which is still in the harbor, in the hands of a new owner.

A lot to sort out, but hoping the backstay holds for me, and we get her home...


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

Any thoughts on the passage from Buzzards Bay? I've had the suggestion that instead of going down to New Bedford and on to Newport for an overnight before going west to CT, that it would be a similar distance (and a far nicer trip) to go down to Cuttyhunk...

... then head west via Newport, across towards the watch hill passage, or through the race and staying at fishers overnight before proceeding west.

In terms of conditions, and weather/wind, what are the things to plan around?

For this boat, how reasonable is either way, and what's your recommendation, all?


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## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

Having owned one..check for 'Oil Canning' of the haul and mast compression cross beam arch for sag..typical symptoms are the inability to tighten the mast shrouds..


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

Is the oil canning something that can be rectified, (hey, another lightheaded moment as I pay yet another bill! sweet!) or is it time to start playing "taps"?


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## Arcb (Aug 13, 2016)

I wouldn't worry too much about Oil Canning on a G26, unless the yard guys do a really sloppy job. It's usually more of an issue with bigger heavier boats, even then, it usually pops back out as soon as the weight is off the stands.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

The shrouds didn't appear to have issues with tension, and I didn't notice anything specific with that... After my last bill, and the need to still bring the boat home, I'm seriously hoping I don't have anything else go wrong. It's barely justifiable for me to be away at all right now, with everything going on, but I'm a bit stuck.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

slomo

I am so sorry to hear about your father. And the trouble with the boat. The back stay has a lot of help when the main is sheeted tight. Of course one thing you really need to check other than the weather is currents.

ELDRIDGE Tide and Pilot Book

I am in Poughkeepsie and I am available to ride and/or sail with you part of the way ...or drop or pick you up in a car.. Best times for me are Fridays- Mondays inclusive ( 4 days) [email protected]


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

That would be incredible... I've had some interest from friends, but it's been hard to find folks willing to commit to a trip who also have some experience... sent you a PM, Sal.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

I am glad to help. I hope you don't mind but I do think we should kick some questions up to the experts. 

So right now I am thinking I am going to go out there and help slomo sail her back. What does the collective say about leaving Mattapoisett and crossing Buzzards to Stonington? Our initial planning is that we might stay overnight in Point Judith and anchor by the light house and then make the jump to Stonington the next day. We will likely do this a couple of days after the Hurricane heads out to sea. Neither of us wants to be a hero. The NOAA surface maps predict a high gradually moving in to the north as the low moves out. Therefore, if the wind is out of the north - that's good right?? How would crossing Narragansett bay entrance be? I've only sailed in the bay in mild north winds ( as opposed to SW wind) and I remember it was calm on those days. 

Advice very welcome. I'm leery of Buzzards and even around Beavertail I have seen it looking very rough.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

My concerns are more specific to the stretch from Point Judith across to Watch Hill. From Mattapoisett down to Point Judith, there are spots to duck in and wait out weather, in a bunch of places (New Bedford, Westport, Sakonnet River, Newport, Jamestown, then Point J.) but from there to Watch Hill, the stretch isn't awfully far, but it's without any real points to get out of weather if need be. The only possible bail-out there is heading further out to get to Block Island, which isn't ideal.


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## Sal Paradise (Sep 14, 2012)

Hey slomo
Great meeting you and I am psyched for this passage. 

This thread seems to have dropped off the radar. 

Might it be worth it to post in general interest a new thread " advice needed" and ask for current and weather/ anchoring advice????

There are a bunch of experienced sailors on here local to Narragansett bay and as far as I know - advice is free.


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

In a 26 foot boat the only things I would be really concerned about other than the weather forecast is the tides at the Race and near NYC. You need to nail them or you won't be moving much at all. The rest is just easy coastal sailing.

Looks like 96hr forecast shows a Northwesterly arriving.

http://tgftp.nws.noaa.gov/fax/PJAM98.gif

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

Is this with an outboard? I know a few did have a small inboard engine..


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

It's an outboard, yep.

Hoping it gets all the way home without mishap...


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

Funny story about that motor.

Anyhow.

She's made it home and is afloat today in her spot on the Hudson, in our town harbor.

Have a bit of mopping out to do and spishing up things about the place, but generally everything appears to work.

Does anyone have info on splicing eyes, or getting cord with an eye pre-spliced in running rigging lines?


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Thanks for the update. Some details on the trip would be nice.

As to eyes in running rigging, lots of info on the web including youtube videos. I use Defender for my running rigging and have them do the splicing. I never got very good at double braid or core to core splices.


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## FreeAgent (Apr 19, 2017)

superslomo said:


> Does anyone have info on splicing eyes, or getting cord with an eye pre-spliced in running rigging lines?


I am guessing that you want to splice new rope tails onto your halyards? The Youtube video shows how. Practice on a short piece of new braid (old braid is very hard to splice) Try to find a text version of instructions on-line and keep itin front of you as you go through the steps. Most important step is to attach the eye part to the wire halyard BEFORE you complete the splice!

Can't recall if sheaves on mast are wide enough to allow it, but many boats these days use an all rope halyard. My present poor memory says probably no, because we never did do that on Grampians.

I seem to recall that wire halyard can't be removed without cutting off shackle, so not easy to send out for splicing. Again, my memory may be wrong!


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

JimsCAL said:


> Thanks for the update. Some details on the trip would be nice.


Ah, well, we went up (Sal Paradise was lovely enough to offer to join for the first days, from Mattapoisett across to possibly as far as Watch Hill) and then as we were leaving Mattapoisett, the motor still wasn't locking reverse, and still wasn't keeping up RPMs, and after some cursing decided to turn back to have it checked.

My disappointment then was pretty brisk, but I think it was what had to happen, and I had some real concerns about singlehanding into marinas along the way with no way to back up.

If you want to know how the trip went, I'll have to send a note to Brownell and we can ask the truck driver who ended up putting it on a trailer.  I imagine the drive went okay  (I was waffling, they called to tell me they had a backhaul and would pull mine in MA, take the rig down, motor her to the ship-out ramp etc., and the deal was decent as well, it was just time to fish or cut bait, and there was no time left to reliably get off of work and trust the weather for a passage. I also had some trust issues with the boat by then.)

At last, though, she's here, and floating on our tobacco-juice-toned river water, on a mooring ball.

I ended up spending my planned passage week hanging out with my kid, taking her to her first week of a new school, and just kind of processing my life a bit.

The boat is there on the water now, and I'm awfully tickled about the whole thing.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

The eye splices are for the shackle attachment end of the main sheet, and for the outhaul on the boom to attach to a shackle point where the line attaches at the bitter end.

The halyard is (correct!) rope/wire combined, and is in adequate shape, but the sheets got wet over the winter and are a bit the worse for wear, I was thinking about piecing together a new set of running rigging over the summer and fall, just as I have the time.

I figure you can get the lines with splices tied in the ends already, from Defender it seems, noted above?


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## FreeAgent (Apr 19, 2017)

If the lines are just mildewed and dirty, Soak them first in a bucket with a mild detergent. Then put them in a cloth bag or pillowcase and put them in a washing machine. For drying, put them out in the sun. 

Of course if they are damaged or falling apart, new ones will be a much better option!


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

The braided covering is fraying in spots, nothing awfully deep, but there are loose fibers/threads there, and I'm just assuming they've been on the boat at least as long as the batteries (which were ten years old, though still essentially working... ish.)

It's one of those updates that I think would feel like a huge improvement, given that you are handling those lines all the time, it would likely be the same satisfaction as a really visible home improvement... the halyards are in lovely condition, basically, but the sheets are just not fantastic, the color and aesthetics are part of it, which washing might address, but if I can run a new set of running rigging onto the old girl, I imagine she'd feel a little fancier


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

superslomo said:


> I figure you can get the lines with splices tied in the ends already, from Defender it seems, noted above?


Yes. When you order the line, you can also choose to have a splice done. You can have the splice done on any line they sell. Cost is about $20 and does vary based on line diameter and if double braid or core-to-core splice (for high tech line).


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

When re-reeving halyards the simplest thing is to slip a piece of shrink tubing over the end, butt the end of the new one to the tail of the old one and lightly stitch them together with some whipping twine. Slip the shrink tube over the joint, shrink it and then simply haul away - they will run over the top sheave just fine.

I trust you are doing away with those horrible wire to rope halyards. Don't fret about the sheave size - rope to wire halyards need the sheave sized to take the rope diameter. The only time you have a wire only sheave is if you have an all wire halyard running to those ancient reel winches.

You can save doing or buying the spliced eye by simply tying the shackle on with a halyard knot (imagine that :wink). That also leaves you the option of end for ending the halyards when they start to show wear in fixed spots where they chafe on blocks etc.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

The halyard is still okay as far as I can tell. I'm going to replace the main sheet (small eye splice attaches to the block with a pin) and the outhaul is the same. Both are stiffened and aging rope, from my stupid error in letting them be where water soaked them for part of the off season.

There are also now three halyards available as the jib now uses the internal one on the CDI flex furler. I just want to replace the sheets and outhaul.


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## FreeAgent (Apr 19, 2017)

The halyards and sheaves are not as described by sloopjohnb. From what I recall, the sheaves were narrow and only accepted wire. And the rope to wire connection is eye to eye. Not a wire to rope splice. You could not pull in a new halyard as described.

Not required anyway it seems.

There is a Grampian manual on the net at grampianowners.com. This is a link to it. Diagrams are at end of manual, but are not too clear. 
http://grampianowners.com/G26/G26ManualClean.pdf


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Free, I'm not sure I understand your description of "eye to eye" joins in a rope to wire halyard.

Are you saying the two materials are terminated in thimbles and joined by shackling them together?


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## FreeAgent (Apr 19, 2017)

SloopJonB said:


> Free, I'm not sure I understand your description of "eye to eye" joins in a rope to wire halyard.
> 
> Are you saying the two materials are terminated in thimbles and joined by shackling them together?


Only the wire passes over the masthead sheaves. It has a shackle at lower end and a nicopressed thimble at other end. The rope tail is joined to the wire thimble with a eye splice (no additional thimble needed)


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

:eek What an incredibly mickey mouse sounding setup. You have to cut the halyards apart to unreeve them? 

All just to avoid a rope to wire splice or is there some other thinking involved?


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

I'm going to have to look closely at how the halyard is set up, but on the (generally well thought out and considered set up) I think it's a really clean looking in line rope to wire splice.


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## FreeAgent (Apr 19, 2017)

Do you know how to do a tapered wire to rope splice? Boat builders used the skills they had available and that one was hard to find.

Besides, the sheaves on masthead couldn't accept rope anyway, so why have a splice that would allow rope to reach and jam as well as get damaged? At that time all-wire was the other option but required an expensive reel winch. This allowed a low cost winch to be used. No need to unreave a halyard anyway unless the wire got damaged. 
Hope this explains how Grampian and other boats of that era were rigged


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## FreeAgent (Apr 19, 2017)

superslomo said:


> I'm going to have to look closely at how the halyard is set up, but on the (generally well thought out and considered set up) I think it's a really clean looking in line rope to wire splice.


If halyard has a tapered wire to rope splice, it must have been replaced. Assuming original mast and sheaves, make sure rope stays out of mast head.


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## Bleemus (Oct 13, 2015)

Perhaps I missed it but what is preventing you from replacing masthead sheaves to rope compatible ones? Wire to rope splices arent cheap and are a bit of a pain in the ass to DIY. Go modern for this application!


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

Wire-to-rope halyard kits are available like this one from Defender. Just need a swage at the end of the wire at the right length. 
U.S. Rigging Wire-To-Rope Halyard Kit

Are you sure you can't use all rope halyards? I've changed main halyards from wire-to-rope to all rope on my last two boats with no issues. And didn't change the sheaves at the top of the mast.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

FreeAgent said:


> Do you know how to do a tapered wire to rope splice? Boat builders used the skills they had available and that one was hard to find.


No, I struggle with splicing double braid.

Having said that, I never claimed to be a professional boatbuilder or rigger. If I did I'd ensure I provided properly spliced rigging, not some sort of "That'll do" bodge on the boats I was selling.

Even better, I'd never have provided those horrible rope to wire splices on a small boat. Double braid is plenty strong enough for halyard tension on a 26' boat.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

I didn't really think there was any rush to replace the halyard that is still perfectly functional, along with a whole spare one that's in the set of spares.

Is there some reason that they are to be avoided? I'd figure possibly on changing over if they need to be replaced, but in this case, I've got no need to do that yet.

The outhaul, and the sheets, are all a bit less fresh, and I was figuring on slowly replacing them as I find the time. Those are where I needed the eye splices in place.


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## FreeAgent (Apr 19, 2017)

superslomo said:


> I didn't really think there was any rush to replace the halyard that is still perfectly functional, along with a whole spare one that's in the set of spares.
> 
> Is there some reason that they are to be avoided? I'd figure possibly on changing over if they need to be replaced, but in this case, I've got no need to do that yet.


There is no need to change anything. Especially things that work!

A lot of Grampians were built. 1000 G-26s plus 23s and 30s and possibly others that used the same halyards design, If you search the web, you will find discussions about many Grampian issues. But not one that I could find about the halyards.

I owned a new 73 Grampian and later another that we took on a trade. Also had numerous friends with same boat. All I can recall is that the masthead sheaves were narrow and designed for wire. Owners sometimes spliced on new rope tails so the halyards could be led back to the cockpit. This is something an owner could do with the eyesplice design.


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## FreeAgent (Apr 19, 2017)

SloopJonB said:


> No, I struggle with splicing double braid.


In that case, I fully understand not being able to do a tapered wire to rope splice  In fact very few boat owners would have this skill. That was point that I may have made poorly in earlier post.

However, most sailors should at least learn how to make a simple eyesplice in double braid. And nicopress a thimble eye in wire. Both are pretty easy to do.


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## FreeAgent (Apr 19, 2017)

Bleemus said:


> Perhaps I missed it but what is preventing you from replacing masthead sheaves to rope compatible ones? Wire to rope splices arent cheap and are a bit of a pain in the ass to DIY. Go modern for this application!


Firstly, this is not a problem slomo or myself are currently trying to solve  It somehow just seems to be of interest to some here, so trying to answer some questions.:wink

The rope to wire eye to eye splice Grampian used was in fact cheap and anyone could do it! Some merit in that, I guess? Whereas, tapered wire to rope splices are not cheap and hardly anyone knows how to do them.

All-rope low stretch polyester halyards are very common these days on cruising boats, but back when Grampians were built (almost 50 years ago), those low stretch fibres were not available. As a result they used wire. Mast makers provided sheaves to suit that wire.

Some later sailboats had hybrid sheaves that could handle both wire and rope. Still had a center groove for the wire. I have those on my 78 model boat, but even there, there are sharp edges/snags caused by years of wire use, so I would want to have the sheaves replaced or at least dressed before putting in new all-rope halyards. But that won't happen because I still have a new spare set of halyards!


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## FreeAgent (Apr 19, 2017)

JimsCAL said:


> Wire-to-rope halyard kits are available like this one from Defender. Just need a swage at the end of the wire at the right length.
> U.S. Rigging Wire-To-Rope Halyard Kit
> 
> Are you sure you can't use all rope halyards? I've changed main halyards from wire-to-rope to all rope on my last two boats with no issues. And didn't change the sheaves at the top of the mast.


Those wire to rope kits don't work with the early boats. And only way you could use all rope halyard, would be to use line that was less than 1/4". see pic below. Not sure if a G-26 mast, but same idea.

It was a hot evening, so I went down to my boat. While there I walked the docks that have the 22-27 footers. Many of the boats there had the double eyesplice wire to rope join. Grampian 23/26, Tanzer 22/7.5/26, Hughes 25 and one other boat of same vintage that I did not recognize. All had obviously replaced their rope tails, because tails were now just tied on. Many halyards were now led back to cockpit.

Anyway, for the younger and newer sailors that questioned this - This is just how halyards were done back in the day. No reason to change something that works. And short of building a complete new masthead, not much that would make sense that could be done to change it.


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## JimsCAL (May 23, 2007)

FreeAgent said:


> Those wire to rope kits don't work with the early boats.


This doesn't make sense. Explain.


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## FreeAgent (Apr 19, 2017)

Already have. Read the whole thread. Sorry but I am done with this.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

I'm about to ask about what kind of replacement running rigging I might want to consider.

I figure it's going to get like a holy war around here.



On a cruising boat with brackish water, I was thinking about Samson Trophy braid for the jibsheets, and sta-set or some more fancy cordage for the mainsheet. I have some snippets and pieces of other line (cunningham, downhaul, outhaul, reefing lines etc.) that are also potentially up for replacement but I've not decided with certainty.

Other than stretch and weight, and absorption of water, what am I paying extra for? Longer life?

Given the traveler being across the rear, and an aftermarket device, I was thinking with older hardware that the shock absorption of less fancy lines might also be wise, damping some of the harder forces in the running rigging, but I'm open to any suggestions.


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## FreeAgent (Apr 19, 2017)

superslomo said:


> I'm about to ask about what kind of replacement running rigging I might want to consider.


I would just get the most economical double braid polyester for all your running rigging. No need to waste money on high tech rope. The G-26 is no grand prix racer. You won't notice stretch in main or jib sheets, and even if they do stretch a little, you can always trim.


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## superslomo (Jun 16, 2015)

She's going to sit out, with the jibsheets and mainsheet in the rain and spray on the Hudson at a mooring, so longevity matters more than any strict performance measure. Stretch seemed like it would be not entirely a bad thing, with the traveler modified out on the back of the cockpit, the spring seemed sensible.

Sta-Set (smooth for mainsheet) and Trophy Braid (soft on hands and winches for jibsheet) are a decent pair, then? I'd rather not spend the extra money... and I figure if they're the ropes I'm going to find at all the normal stores in a pinch, it's easier to just get used to splicing and working with those two.

I just want it to last, run through hardware well, be good on the hands, and look a bit tastier than the old stuff presently on there... I figure I'll just keep the old main and jibsheets and keep them onboard in a locker as a spare for emergencies. They still work, but the cover braid is showing fraying in spots, and it would just be nice to have some new rope around and in hand.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

Free is right - just get a quality double braid like Sta-Set.

I'd strongly recommend colour coding the lines - with rookies it's a lot faster to say "Pull the red line" than "Hoist the jib halyard". :smile

Your idea about "a little stretch" being good is wrong - no stretch is best but minimal is the reality. If a little stretch was good we'd all run nylon running rigging.

Re: longevity, the best thing you can do in this regard is to unreeve and wash the lines every year. Replace them with messenger lines over the winter, take them home and wash them (no fabric softener or bleach) and they'll last for decades.

Rod Stephens was reputed to replace his with messengers every time he used the boat but that's getting a bit silly IMO.


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