# U.S. Naval Academy Boats



## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

3/23/10, 1227 hrs PDT, two matching sloops just went south down the Swinomish Channel. Each were 40 sumpthin feet long named Lively and Vigilant. Anyone know the rest of the story on these boats?


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## nickmerc (Nov 2, 2008)

If they are the same boats I am thinking of, however they are very far from home, they are the Navy 44's built by Pearson. The USNA uses them for offshore sail training and racing. Fantastic boats. I am hoping to volunteer as an instructor this fall on them if I can commit the time. My favorite name is the "Dandy" Most of them have very powerful names, but the last few delivered are a bit different.
________
Live sex webshows


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

They might have been 44 feet long. Here they are:


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## tommays (Sep 9, 2008)

The older ones i have seen auctioned off are pretty used-up and badly in need of a BIG refit 

The other thing i have seen when they come up this way to race is NOT droping out of and event


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

erps,

Those look like the Navy 44 STC Mark II boats. They are used at Annapolis as Sail Training Craft (STC). They were designed by Dave Pedrick and built at Pearson Composites.

They replaced the previous Mark I version, which in turn had replaced the earlier Luders Yawl 44s.

That's pretty cool that they are all the way over in your neck of the woods. I wonder what the story is?

http://www.usna.edu/Users/naome/phmiller/PYDNA44Presentation2005a.pdf


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

Well they were pretty and one was even displaying its motoring cone. I think that's the first time I've seen one displayed. We found one on board Nikko (black cone) when we bought her and I had to look up what it was for. I thought it was a wizzard hat.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

Dan...Eryka's (who posts frequently on here) husband and is currently in the Bahamas was an instructor at The USNA who taught the "squids" how to sail the navy boats. He probably could give you the correct lowdown on them as well as the new ones they just purchased.

Dave


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd point out that Eryka and Dan's internet access is a bit spotty as they're out cruising.


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## Danjcon (Oct 23, 2007)

There was a review of the Navy 44 in the August 2008 Practical Sailor. I saw one at the Annapolis Sailboat Show a couple of months later. What a boat. Very solid, fast, but pretty spartan.


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

The boats that were retired from training middies at Annapolis went to schools around the country with Navy ROTC programs and continued in service training future leaders for our Navy. I know several went to the west coast and some that weren't needed for ROTC training went to auction.

Probably the most interesting thing is that before any Government equipment like this goes to auction it is offered to other agencies within the government that might have a need. Some scammer in the FAA, got hold of the forms to request stuff and was able to basically steal one of these ex-Navy boats. Remarkably, he got away with it and no one in the process ever questioned what the FAA might need a 40 odd foot sailboat for. He continued his larcenous ways and was finally caught but not before he stole hundreds of thousands worth of computers and a Cessna 210 airplane to go with his boat.


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## Flybyknight (Nov 5, 2005)

*Navy 44*


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Th Navy 44s Vigilant and Lively are both registered to the University of Washington with PHRF NW

They rate a 99.

Be fun to watch them pass me around the race course some time.

About our 44s | University of Washington NROTC

David


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## TAK (Jul 14, 2003)

Navy Yawl

Vigilant and Lively are Luders 44s.. Vigilant must have recently moved to the Left Coast..


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

I believe Annapolis is phasing out its big-boat sailing program. (Hence the transfer of these boats to Washington State.) The Commandant apparently doesn't seem to think U.S. Navy personnel need to know which way the wind is blowing, or how it might affect their ships.


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## TAK (Jul 14, 2003)

The Luders were old boats replaced by the Pedricks..
I have heard those rumors but dont think that will happen. As I understand a part of the sailing program is supported by alum.. besides the Navy is all about tradition - I dont see this one ending anytime soon.


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## nickmerc (Nov 2, 2008)

I have a friend who is an instructor during the summers for the off shore training course. As far as he is aware there is no intention of discontinuing the large boat sailing program at the USNA. During the school year they race all of the time so it is just not the off shore stuff.
________
Bald ***** Live


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## paulk (Jun 2, 2000)

I was basing my post on something I thought I had read. A bit of research shows that it may be old news: Scuttlebutt News: Naval Academy support
If it's not true any longer, so much the better. The guy I knew who was involved with the program at Annapolis - and who left about 2 years ago - is now working at NYYC in Newport, where I think he's been instrumental in running their International Invitational.


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## puddinlegs (Jul 5, 2006)

djodenda said:


> Th Navy 44s Vigilant and Lively are both registered to the University of Washington with PHRF NW
> 
> They rate a 99.
> 
> ...


Exactly right! Both are ex-academy boats that are now part of the UW NROTC program and were (are still?) berthed at Elliot Bay Marina in Seattle. If you can make it out for one of the summer thursday night downtown sailing series, you'll have plenty of opportunity to see them up close.


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Those two are also usually on the dock at SYC for opening day weekend in May. Nice boats to look at. That is as close as I have been to them, have not been able to jump on them, but looked dockside.

marty


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

I thought these older Navy 44's were being replaced with an updated hull design (bulb keel); not that the Navy was ending it's sailing program. It would be sad to hear if they sold the 44's and later ended the sailing program due to budget cuts.

I liked the 44; it has similar lines to my C&C designed Newport 41; and rates similarly.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

TAK said:


> The Luders were old boats replaced by the Pedricks...


Folks, Oops, I mistyped in my previous post. Should have said Mark II, not Mark III.

In any case, to reiterate, the current STC 44 MarK II boats are a Dave Pedrick design. They replaced the previous STC 44 Mark I boats, which I believe came from McCurdy and Rhodes design group and were built by Pearson Yachts (not Pearson Composites, as were the Mark IIs).

The earlier Mark I boats replaced the Luders 44 Yawls, back in the mid-80's time frame. The Mark IIs began delivery only in the middle of this past decade.

It's hard to tell from erps photos whether those are Mark I or Mark II boats. They are fairly similar in profile. I have no reason to doubt that the locals here are correct in reporting that these are Mark I boats now being used by NROTC programs.

One of the quickest ways to distinguish the two versions, is to glance at the foredeck. The Mark I boats have an over-sized, conventional fold-open hatch on the foredeck. The Mark II boats dispensed with the folding hatch, and went with a solid (not transparent lexan) sliding hatch on tracks. I guess they felt this was an easier/better arrangement for sailhandling while racing.

The new Mark II are nice boats. I've often wondered whether it would be feasible to purchase one new and re-configure it for cruising.....

EDIT: But see new thread here.


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## turban10 (Jan 4, 2010)

Flybyknight said:


>


Those are some beautiful lines on that boat!

This may be a silly question, but does anyone know why neither of the two were flying their Jibs? (posted by Erps on page one)


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## erps (Aug 2, 2006)

There wasn't much wind and they were travelling down a narrow channel. I suspect they had been sailing earlier and then dropped their jibs and started up the iron jenny to transit the Swinomish Slough.


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

I sailed the Naval academy’s Luders 44’s in the 60’s. I’d spent my childhood seriously messing around boats and racing dinghies. My father worked for a steamship company but US merchant marine was on a low state then. When I went on to the Naval Academy, I wasn’t thinking about driving Navy ships. I was thinking about racing large boats.
The Academy’s crown jewels were their 44 ft. Luder yawls. Although the design and technology of these graceful, wood boats had been eclipsed in the ocean racing circuits, when racing against each other, the “Luders” were one-design racing on a magnificent scale. There was no better way to learn how to sail a large yacht than to compete with 11 identical boats every afternoon, and most weekends, in the fall and spring for four years. (There’s no wind on the Chesapeake in the summer). We’d also do ocean racing like the Bermuda race. Those exciting years were caked with salt. Being without engines, the “Luders” put crews at the mercy of their sailing skill. As an underclassman I recall that our upperclassman skipper would get out there early, get Restless underway on the main and sail past the float for a drive-by pick up of the crew. Some would just grab on to the boom. I recall one night when our boat’s seams opened up on a stormy, fall race. Without the option of motoring home, we limped across the finish line with everyone bailing as the water below rose to our knees. 
Graduating from Annapolis all but ended my sailing. By joining submarines in the Cold War I sentenced myself to nearly continuous duty on ships under Admiral Rickover’s notorious engineering discipline.
Back then we'd have the skipkacks sailing in and out of Annapolis as well. Pretty inspiring for those of us stuck on sailboats.


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

Hi guys, S'dog is right about our limited internet, so here's a quick sketch of an update on the 44s (via Dan). The old 44 sloops (numbers 1-20) are about 30 yrs old. Over the last few years they are being replaced with similar-looking (but redesigned underwater) sloops (numbers 21+; these are the ones shown at the dock in flybynight's photo). There were 7 new ones rec'd as we were leaving Annapolis. As the new ones arrived, the surplus old ones were sent to ROTC programs; I know 2 went to WA. The redesign incorporated senior thesis projects for several teams of students in engineering programs - cool! John: confusingly, the older 44 sloops (1-20) are referred to as "Mark I" and the brand new ones as "Mark II" - go figure.

There have always been 2 "facets" to the sailing program - the racing side (Bermuda, offshore etc) and the leadership side. The latter is the program Dan was coaching in - its not so much about being fast (although the mids are quite competitive) as about learning navigation, seamanship, small group leadership, etc. The boats are designed to be very labor intensive for this reason - it takes 3 people to raise the mainsail - the exact opposite of what you'd want in a civilian boat. And in the 5 years that Dan's been there, the racing side is sacred; the leadership side of the program has gone from mandatory, to an elective, to cancelled, back to an elective as priorities (and Superindendents) change. This summer sounds like there will be a moderate-size program.

A civilian version of the newest 44 is supposedly going to be available, I have no info on cost. 

To the poster who is considering volunteering with the program - hope you can find the time to contribute. The mids are fantastic to work with, and the boats are a lot of fun to sail.

Hope I've gotten everyone's Q's. (can't back up to check)


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## eryka (Mar 16, 2006)

Update: Got this email yesterday from a former colleague of Dan's:

"USNA sold three na44s around thanksgiving...I was walking around US naval station this afternoon and I spoke with the new owner (a grain farmer from OHIO) of dauntless....the first 44 went for $41k and the next two went for $45k.

The boat came complete!!!! life raft, spinnaker, all sails, BIB & manuals, hf radio, "10 gal holding tank", all sheets and winches. 

My quick tour of his boat brought back many memories...I told him that there is no place topsides to lay down comfortably - I tried for 5 years. 

He's going to keep the boat in West River this summer. I told him that if he comes to town I can probably find some folks to go out him."


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## FlyNavy (May 14, 2009)

As of a few years ago, Lively was part of the Whidbey Island Naval Air Station MWR (Morale, Welfare, Recreation) Fleet, moored in Oak Harbor WA. The boat was available for active duty and retired military to use on an hourly basis. Not sure if she is still in their livery but that would explain her location when sighted.


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## mbrownle (Apr 13, 2010)

*Navy 44s*

Those are Naval Academy Navy 44 Mark Is donated to U. of Wash a couple of years ago by USNA. Trucked to San Diego and sailed up the coast to the Sound with a stay in Santa Barbara on the way.

Both were USNA Offshore Team boats and were named Lively and Vigilant at the Academy. Both were successful offshore (Lively won Newport-Bermuda and Vigilant Annapolis-Bermuda among others).

Heavy, super strong boats that struggle in light air but are dynamite in heavy air and seas upwind, Very sparse below as one would expect of a traininjg vessel.

Replaced by Mark IIs beginning 3 years ago. New boats (now 10 of them delivered) are a a bit faster downwind, but still made for developing future Naval Officers.

Sailed many thousands of mostly happy offshore miles racing them as a volunteer offshore racing coach.

Mike Brownlee


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## FlyNavy (May 14, 2009)

"Those are Naval Academy Navy 44 Mark Is donated to U. of Wash a couple of years ago by USNA. Trucked to San Diego and sailed up the coast to the Sound with a stay in Santa Barbara on the way."

That explains it then. Lively was a solo craft when I sailed her out of Oak Harbor WA in the late 90s. The MWR fleet let her go a few years later and it must have gone to be with its sister ship at U DUB (Univ of Washington)


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## mbrownle (Apr 13, 2010)

*Navy 44s*

If you were sailing Lively out of MWR facilities in the 90s, she must have been a yawl. The yawls were replaced by the Mark I 44s beginning in about 1989 with 20 delievered over the next 3 years.

There are still 3 yawls hat I know of sailing in Chesapeake Bay out of MWR facilictes as of a couple of years ago. One in Annapolis and 2 at PAX River. Looks like one may still be out your way. Don't know where the rest are. Venerable (AKA lacking in creature comforts) old workhorses.

Mike


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## blt2ski (May 5, 2005)

Please note slowest boat in class 3 for the long course to smith island and back! First race of SYC's Island series going thru the first weekend in June.

marty


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## fairbank56 (Feb 28, 2010)

13 of the new mark II's have been delivered. 2 of the mark I's, Flirt and Swift will be used by varsity offshore crews this season and Invincible is also being used but will be taken out of the program very shortly. 3 more of the mark II's will be delivered and that's it.

Eric


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## fairbank56 (Feb 28, 2010)

nickmerc said:


> My favorite name is the "Dandy" Most of them have very powerful names, but the last few delivered are a bit different.


Mark I's
Audacious, Courageous, Invincible, Valiant, Active, Alert, Dauntless, Fearless, Flirt, Lively, Swift, Vigilant, Resolute, Intrepid, Frolic, Restless, Dandy, Dash, Bold and Challenger.

Mark II's
Renaissance, Integrity, Defiance, Gallant, Tenacious, Invincible, Warrior, Daring, Brave, Honor, Courage, Commitment and Intrepid.

Eric


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