# Outboard install



## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

Hey everybody!
Im a little new to sailing, or at least having my own boat. I just bought a 76 Catalina 27 a few months ago and its now time for outboard shopping. My boat is the outboard model and I have an open motor well with tiller steering. Ive seen a lot of setup variations with similar boats and have a few questions:

1. Ive seen some people mount the motor in a fixed position and mount to controls remotely (meaning they still rely on the boat's rudder to steer while the motor stays in the same position.) Does that work well? I would think since I would have to mount the motor behind the rudder, the steering wouldn't be too responsive (especially at low speeds.) I really need the motor to get in and out of the marina.

2. Do you have to get a mounting bracket that steers or do most motors have that built in? (I know, dumb question...Sorry)

3. Finally, for a boat this size, any recommendations for motor size? I really don't want to be underpowered. I want to have responsive steering more than I care about actual speed. The boat came with a (what they claim to be a 6hp equivilant) electric outboard. I tried taking it out with that and couldn't even get out of the marina, almost layed it into two other boats because it wouldn't steer. Here in the gulf, there is the occasional 5 knot current that Ill need to overcome. I was looking at a 92 Johnson 9.9 and an 84 Evinrude 15, both just what I could find on craigs list. Both extremely clean, running well for $650. I know these are a bit old but my budget is under a grand. Im good with engines so Im not as worried about having huge repair bills... But Im a liveaboard so I was thinking about finding the smallest thing managable so if I need to pull it out to work on it, it won't be a huge production.... I also want to be able to tilt it out of the water. Any thoughts? Would a 9.9 do well out in the ocean?


Thanks,
Nick


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## GraemeInCanada (Jun 17, 2008)

1. Yes. That's what I have and in fact had a bracket custom made to lock the motor into position because they didn't provide that option out of the box.

2. I'm actually not sure what you mean by this. The motor pivots on it's bracket that is clamped to the bracket on the boat. Does that make sense for your question?

3. A 9.9 high thrust will do you well but of course the 15 will give you more juice to get through fast currents. Both should get you to hull speed no problem. I've not heard bad things about Johnson, you'll save on gas with the 9.9 over the 15.


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## donlofland (Dec 8, 2008)

I've found my 9.9 Merc 2 stroke does the job fine on my Catalina 27. I wish I could tell you whether this pushes it along at hull speed, but my first season sailing it last year I had so much marine growth on the keel, there was no way to know-4 knots tops then, but I expect much better this season now that she's clean.

Unfortunately there isn't room in the motor cut out to pivot the motor on it's bracket, so I have the motor clamped in a straight ahead position, (the Merc motor has a tensioner that allows for this), and I use the boats rudder to steer. (Not nearly as maneuverable as being able to pivot the motor, but that's how it is.)

The Merc 2 stroke tilts out of the water with just a little room to spare. I've seen some nice 4 strokes at the dock with the lower unit gathering marine growth because there isn't room in the transom to tilt them up.

Johnson made a nice low profile 9.9 or 10 hp 2 stroke which might be sweet. 

You'd want to take some careful measurements to make sure what you are buying fits.

Hope this helps!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

sync said:


> Hey everybody!
> Im a little new to sailing, or at least having my own boat. I just bought a 76 Catalina 27 a few months ago and its now time for outboard shopping. My boat is the outboard model and I have an open motor well with tiller steering. Ive seen a lot of setup variations with similar boats and have a few questions:


Is this a transom mounted outboard or a well-mounted outboard. There's a big difference between the two.



> 1. Ive seen some people mount the motor in a fixed position and mount to controls remotely (meaning they still rely on the boat's rudder to steer while the motor stays in the same position.) Does that work well? I would think since I would have to mount the motor behind the rudder, the steering wouldn't be too responsive (especially at low speeds.) I really need the motor to get in and out of the marina.


Yes, it works, but you lose a lot of maneuverability. Vectored thrust, via steering the outboard, greatly increases the responsiveness of the boat with regards to turning.



> 2. Do you have to get a mounting bracket that steers or do most motors have that built in? (I know, dumb question...Sorry)


Most outboards have a tiller/throttle arm and can turn on their brackets. Usually, these need to be modified to lock them in the straight fore-and-aft position. 



> 3. Finally, for a boat this size, any recommendations for motor size? I really don't want to be underpowered. I want to have responsive steering more than I care about actual speed. The boat came with a (what they claim to be a 6hp equivilant) electric outboard. I tried taking it out with that and couldn't even get out of the marina, almost layed it into two other boats because it wouldn't steer. Here in the gulf, there is the occasional 5 knot current that Ill need to overcome. I was looking at a 92 Johnson 9.9 and an 84 Evinrude 15, both just what I could find on craigs list. Both extremely clean, running well for $650. I know these are a bit old but my budget is under a grand. Im good with engines so Im not as worried about having huge repair bills... But Im a liveaboard so I was thinking about finding the smallest thing managable so if I need to pull it out to work on it, it won't be a huge production.... I also want to be able to tilt it out of the water. Any thoughts? Would a 9.9 do well out in the ocean?
> 
> Thanks,
> Nick


I'd think a 9.9 HP would be fine. The 15 HP would give you a little more power, but it is also probably a good deal heavier, and may cause the boat to squat, stern down. More important than the HP rating is getting the proper propellor. Most outboards are not propped with a displacement sailboat in mind, so the prop they come with is often far from desirable for a sailboat.


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Sync,

I had a Coronado 25, about 4,000+ lbs I think. It had a well which with a long shaft worked well. Started with a 6hp but it was marginal for San Francisco Bay conditions. Went to a 15 hp Evinrude 2 stroke which really got the job done. IIRC, the 9.5 hp and the 15hp were the same size and weight so I went with the 15. Suggest you get the most powerfull motor with the longest shaft that will fit in the well. If I had to do it over I would get electric start with the charging capability

Dabnis


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

I have a very similar boat: 1972 Catalina 27 with Evinrude 9.9 mounted through a hole in the transom. Evinrude and Johnson are the same motor.

As you've described, my motor does not really turn; it has no tiller of its own. Control lines are run to the cockpit for throttle, gears, and starting. This is pretty convenient.

*Steering*: in forward is fine, though a bit delayed like you'd expect. 15 hp would probably solve that.

Response in reverse is pretty bad, but you can learn to compensate. The motor will not tilt-lock in reverse, meaning a sudden burst of power in reverse will lift the motor out of the water (I have actually tilted it up into the halfway-up-locked position just by reversing). Turning to starboard, you need to take it easy, power for a while, then drop to neutral to steer. Turning to port you can keep the motor in gear as prop walk (yes, outboards do it too, especially since they have a longer moment arm) and wash over the rudder will help you; the Catalina 27 loves to spin clockwise in place at precisely the least convenient time.

The response is such that docking and undocking in any kind of cross wind is always a major event, and I'm really not comfortable doing it alone after two years of practice.

*Power*: I have never gone over 5 knots with this motor. If you expect to fight a 5-knot current, expect to be waiting the current to go away.

*Ocean*: the motor is basically useless in a real sea; if you hit any weather, forget about getting help from the motor. I could barely bring the bow through the wind in 25-30 knots and and 4-6 foot seas. Do not expect the motor to be useful in "the ocean".

However, I plan to head to the outside of Vancouver Island this summer; I'll let you know how it performs 

*Maintenance:* I have had to replace the starter motor on my Evinrude, a 1990, as well as repair some corrosion (or maybe erosion) in the cooling system. I'm currently getting some grief from the fuel system... probably not too unusual for a motor of that age, but be prepared to do some basic maintenance on such an old motor. Otherwise it's been fairly reliable.

In the end I'd say you're better off with a 15 hp motor, even if it will guzzle more gas. You'll feel much more secure in your ability to maneuver around the marina.

One thing to watch out for is the dimensions of a bigger motor. The Evinrude/Johnson 9.9 and 15 are the same motor, with the latter having a bigger carb and also being somehow retuned for higher RPMs. Otherwise I think it's the same overall size. Not so with other motors that you might replace them with; newer four strokes will be bigger and if your motor is indeed mounted through a transom hole, might not fit, or might fit and not tilt. I had this problem. The Evinrude tilts and has about 1/2" clearance when the after edge of the cowling passes through the hole.

Someday I hope to glass over that godforsaken hole and install a lift bracket. If you're still in the I-don't-have-a-motor-yet stage, I would strongly recommend installing a lift bracket and putting a 15 hp motor on it, either 2 or 4 stroke.

p.s. I feel like $650 is a bit steep for such an old motor.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you want to hear me complain any more about my motor


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

Thank you all for all the great info! Seriously... 

So basicly everyone uses the rudder for steering with the engine fixed? 

What if I mounted it slightly to the side and used a lift bracket? (maybe like the kind that lifts it straight up instead of tilting.) Would it be possible to get the prop burried deep enough in the water and also have the tiller of the motor high enough to steer with the motor? I do not have the motor yet and Im just trying to figure out what the ideal setup is before I invest in something like that... 

Ill have to do some measurements. Maybe if I put it on a lift bracket off to the side of the of the motor well and got a long enough shaft ( or maybe modified the tiller to raise it to clear the transom) I could use the motor to steer....I don't know, any thoughts? That just makes more sense to me... Im new to this, I need all the maneuverability I can get. 

Also, I am about a hundred or two pounds heavier on the port side due to installing a fridge and freezer, if I put it on the starboard side, it might level things out.....Also, I could use the bigger motor without fear of it not clearing the motor well when it tilts out of the water.
Anymore feedback (+/-) would be awesome....It might be a dumb idea....I guess I'd like to run it by a few people before I go spending the time and $$ trying it....

Thanks again for everything...
Ive been on forums for awhile now on a lot of different subjects and this is the most and quickest feedback Ive ever gotten... I really appreciate it!
Thanks,
Nick


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

Also (AdamLein), or anyone else, what do you think would be a fair offer on this motor? He said its has a full going through by a mechanic and got a rebuilt carb, new water pump, and head gasket.... It looks really clean inside and out to me...Sounds like it would be a pretty solid motor given he provided receipts and it ran well... Any thoughts....

Evinrude 15hp long shaft


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## Izzy1414 (Apr 14, 2007)

Sync,

I have no experience with your particular boat, but I would at least try for a mounting option that allows you to steer with the outboard. I leave mine in a fixed position about 99% of the time and steer with the rudder only. But that 1% of the time that I need the outboard for steerage in tight spots ...... well, lets just say the extra maneuverability is priceless.  It will also allow you to motor in even if your rudder becomes disabled. Be especially careful with your prop to rudder clearances however. Angles may be such that the rudder will not hit the prop when the outboard is in the fixed position, but may when the motor is turned. You might need to add a simple prop guard to your motor to keep that from happening.









You can see the simple guard I made and mounted on my outboard to keep the rudder from coming into contact with the prop. You can also see the damage the prop did to the rudder before I dummied up.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Prop guard is a neat idea. However the Catalina 27 layout is pretty different.

There's a hole in the transom and the motor is mounted on the lower edge of the hole. The rudder is a spade type that projects out a bit aft of the transom, but not as much as the rudder in that photo. I wouldn't worry about the rudder hitting the prop.

In fact, I briefly used a 6 hp Tohatsu while the starter and stator disc on the Evinrude were being replaced, and that had a tiller and you could turn the motor. However, because the motor is mounted in a hole, the angle through which the motor can be turned is very restricted; maybe 20 degrees off centerline if I recall. Mostly I used it to support the turn I was creating with the rudder, but that was a lot of hassle and I eventually gave up on it.

A big source of discomfort there---and it will not go away if you change the way the motor is mounted---is the way the motor is mounted. The motor is accessed through a hatch in the cockpit that leads to essentially an aft lazarette, whose after wall is the transom where the motor is mounted. You'd have to be reaching in there to manipulate the motor. On that note, where are your mainsheet and traveler? Mine are end-boom, which can get in the way if I need to get into the motor well.

If you were to mount the motor on a lift bracket, I don't see it getting any easier to vector the motor. The motor's tiller will probably have to be left in the vertical position anyhow, but a lot depends on your lift bracket. Plus it's so far aft, and you have the stern rail and that lazarette to contend with, along with possibly your mainsheet. That's a lot of stuff between you and the motor.

In the end, I would not count on steering with the motor in an early-period Catalina 27. As you say you are a little new to sailing, your best strategy is not to get into situations where your rudder can be disabled anyway. If your boat has tiller steering there's very little that can go wrong other than striking something big and heavy and dense in the water. Don't do that.


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

Yeah, I hear ya, Im not so worried about having the rudder disabled....Thats not really my drive. Its just to have a bit more responsive steering...My marina is kind of tight... It probably won't work, but Im going to do some measuring and see..... 

My traveler is on a bridge mid-boom so that won't be a problem and theres enough room to swing a tiller almost 180 degrees between the stern rails. All I would have to do is find some way to modify the tiller on the motor to travel up and over the transom without bending when I try to steer. Maybe if I find a really solid peice of steel (or something) and get a little clever. If I could do that, It would work like a dream..... I also like Izzy's setup where you can lock the motor and use the rudder until you get into a tight spot, then you have the option.... 

Thanks again,
Ill repost and let you know what I come up with.


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Sync,

I had the same exact motor you are looking at. Used to run it wide open for hours on end going salmon fishing in the ocean out of San Francisco for 10 years, no problems. I think the price is reasonable related to your description. Have you priced new motors? On the 5 outboards I have owned they all had tilt lock devices that prevent the motor from coming out of the water in reverse, not good when docking with the wind behind you. Suggest you make sure it works properly. If by chance you hit something in the water going forward the impact will over ride the lock and the motor will tilt up. I don't think you can get a larger diameter prop but I used a prop with less pitch, 1" I think, than the stock prop. Now there may be a varity of "high thrust" type props available for that motor? I tried steering with the motor but gave up on it. A electric start/ charging unit retrofit would really be convenient. Suggest you drain the carb if the motor isn't going to be used for a week or two.

Dabnis


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

Thanks, 
Yeah, it seemed like a reasonable deal.... If you click the link and look at the picture, it looks prestine inside and out. The only thing is it is a pull start and there isnt a charging system. The charging system would be nice to have but Im planning on going solar in the next year anyway. I would really like the electric start but I guess I could do without it. I think I might jump on it because I don't think Ill run across another 15hp for less. Most people are asking that much for their 9.9s.


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Sync,

I think the Coronado 25 we had is similar to the description of your boat. The only downside of manual start is it was a little bit awkard to pull the cord.
I think that motor would be a good match for your boat. As mentioned, we used ours for 10 years and it ran just as well as when new when we sold the boat.

Dabnis


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

well crap,
I just talked to the guy and he said he sold it. I found another one, same model, just a little newer, with electric start and alternator, but their asking 900....
I found a few others, theres a 92 Johnson 9.9, also with pull cord for 650, looks pretty good and they claim it runs well.

I found a really good deal on a long shaft 8hp Mariner. Its nice and light, 23 inch shaft, mid or late 90s model with tank included for 300. Im a little skeptical that theres nothing wrong with it and a little worried it wont be enough power, but for that price, I guess I could use it on my dingy if nothing else. The guy next to me has an 8hp on his 25 footer and says it does alright....

Oh well, I guess the hunt continues....


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Sync,

Too bad, sounded like a good motor. The one with electric start / alternator sounds good if it's in good shape. Generally, I think you get what you pay for.
Our boat was somewhat smaller than yours and the original 6hp was marginal except in calm waters with little wind. The 15hp really did the job. I would think that a 9.9, even with a high thrust prop, would be about as small as you want to go, based on your original post "I really don't want to be underpowered". On our boat the long shaft was critical. The farther back the well is the more you need the long shaft to get the "power to the ground". Be interested to know what you get and how well it works.

Dabnis


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## cspaniel (Jan 12, 2010)

Sync, 
I have a '78 Cat 27 with the motor well, with a Mercury 9.9hp (extra?)long shaft, remote throttle/shift, electrical starter (1994). I am not going to repeat all the good advice you have got here, so just wanted to let you know a few things and tell you my experience.

Having had a few motors in this boat, I think key is the length of the shaft, the longer the better, no less than 25''. This, believe me, helps reduce many of the issues people here have described. Forget about turning the motor, there really is no real space, I would do it only if really needed. Throttle/shift remote controls are almost a must! even if you have a tiller control...keeping the tiller in an area that is comfortable to shift/throttle is a pain. Last season I installed a Uflex control and it made a huge difference in how I can control the boat.

Maneuvering while motoring is absolutely fine, yes forward is much much easier, but after practicing in several different conditions, you get the hang, and you will be fine. Practice out in the open, using a buoy, marker etc to simulate a dock/slip.

Finally, I've been in 25kts winds, 4-5 feet waves (short periods), light current (less than 2kts) and with the long shaft had no issues doing 5 knots, without full throttle.

Last advice, if you end up using the motor well (not a motor bracket) make sure to reinforce the area where the motor clips, with a backing plate if possible.

Let me know if you have any other questions, we have the same boat...
Good luck 
-Abraham


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

Well, I got a motor...Got a decent deal on a 30 inch yamaha 9.9. Still looking for a cheap set of controls and a mount...Ill keep you guys posted. Thanks again...


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## GraemeInCanada (Jun 17, 2008)

Excellent choice, that's what I have with the remote controls and it runs quite well. Let us know how things work out for you there.


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

sync said:


> Well, I got a motor...Got a decent deal on a 30 inch yamaha 9.9. Still looking for a cheap set of controls and a mount...Ill keep you guys posted. Thanks again...


Hm... 30"... that actually could interfere with the rudder. Hope I'm wrong.


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## Dakotamusic (Oct 15, 2009)

*Outboard and mounting and steerage*

Hi,
I came across your post while doing a search for props and steering control for my sailboat and ooutboard config. I also recnelty bought a 27 ft Oday 1979. It had an inboarddesiel that was shot. After checkign all that out and reading various rela life cruiser around the world I decided on the outboard for now. The Oday in 79 could be outfitted inboard or outboard as option. 
I chanced upon a 25 Hp merc 2 stroke in good condition with remote controls. It is not electric start. I purchased an outboard motor mount of the lifting type. I renforced the transom with 3/4 inch marine plywood approx. 2 foot wide and cut to fit the contor of the transom to bottom. 
I just ran the set up this past weekend......6 hours north in a 32-47 knot westerly wind under bare poles to move form southern barnegat bay NJ to the northern part of the bay. 23 mile trip.
Here is what i found out..........had I installed a 9.9 as was recomended I would have been in serious dire straights. The 25 Hp was able to keep me at hull speed (5.3 knot) for most times. When I headed into the wind boat speed was reduced to 1.9-2.9 in 3-4 ft sea at above wind speeds. I was concerned this was too much motor however I agree with other posters here that the bigger size will give you more coinfidence where a smaller hp might leave you in trouble.
My motor is a long shaft and I mounted it as instructed. I did experience my prop coming out of the water on the worst waves that not only pitched the boat rather violently but it wasnt unmanagable. All in all the forward thrust of the motor was good and I ran at 50%throttle. 
I experienced very poor reverse handling if not down right not doing a thing. Whiel backing out of the craddle once put in the water the boat simly would not reposnd to rudder control. My motor is not a tiller type and prior to launch I decided to secure the motor in the straight ahead positon to avoid it turning on its own. The marina yard personal yelled out to me when they saw me struggling and told me, "it will nto run unless you turn the outboard as well!" I tied up to a piling and removed the wire before leaving. the motor actually stayed in the ahead psitoon for the most part agian except under the sever wave actions and wind.
Slowing down and putitng it even into revese still did nothing to slow or stop the boat. I have 10 years experience wiht power boats in this size and the way thing repsionded and the displacement hull in genral is completely different.
I had serious difficulty contorling the boat in reveres period. reaching over and psiotioning the motr though by hand while trying to maintain rudder control was helpful but very diffcult if not dangerous given the conditions of gale force winds.
Note that my moor is mounted on the port stern. I looked at center mounting it so it would be dire3ctly in relation to the rudder however fomr my reaidng that wouldnt help much really.
What I have found is that i need to re-prop to a propeller that is of a high thrust low speed type. I have found some resources regarding it. Also the sterring whiel reverseing is affected by exhuast washing over the prop and cuasing a cavitation problem.........search My boat wont go in revrse and you will see about prop selection.
Also as I read along I found this simple to understand article :sailing/docking-outboard-sailboats....it explains the need to turn the outboard and almsot explains how inboard power is also diffcult with reversing depending on the boat.

I thought to send you some realtime experince so you can make choices easier.
I feell pretty comfortable wiht my set up and I will take all the boos and yells about having a larger motor anyday int he bad weather. 
It isimportant to note..i wouldnt have choosen the weatehr to run in and it qucikly chnaged form the marine forcast........I'm glad I had what i did.
I will reprop as suggested in various articles and at least be comfortable knwing that in a bad sea I can get out of it with what i have safely.....reversing is going to be dicey but slow and decisive seems to be the only real situation.......I wish I could have the abilty to turn on a dime like my 27ft WAC 5.7 vovlo penta was able to but the difference in fuel alone will give me pause.
Good luck and I look forward to heairng how your set up works out for you.....
Oh and the sterring issue.........I'm going to rig up a tiller extension like a forespar to my motor which will make it way way more easy than reaching over the back to psotion the motor.

Dakota


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

Thanks man! Lots of good info and advice. I sort of wish I could have gone with the evinrude 15 but I the Yamaha 9.9 was newer, quieter, and had electric start and was still $200 cheaper than the others even after buying a full set of controls (I LOVE eBay!). I have the high thrust model with a 25 inch shaft so it should be a bit better than most other 9.9s. I don't know, I'll let you guys know then it finally sees a sea trial. I'm still waking on the swing mount in the mail. I got the heavy duty 4 stroke gherlic model. Hopefully it works well. It looks stiffer than the flimsy one in the boat next to me at the marina. And as for the steering, I'm going to have the remote throttle/shift controls mounted on the port, and I'm going to try making my own tiller for the motor that attaches to the boats tiller handle, hopefully so I can control both just by turning the boat tiller ( fingers crossed). Hopefully it will work


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

Well, I got the bracket in the mail and had to send it back the same day....Turns out I got a 2 stroke bracket instead of the 4 stroke... I couldn't seem to understand why a 2 stroke bracket rated to hold a 20hp motor weighing up to 115 lbs couldn't hold my 4 stroke 9.9 weighing 98 lbs....until the customer service guy told me that 4 stroke engines have a lot more torque then the equivilant 2 stroke and would likely rip the braket apart if the throttle slipped (learn something new everyday)...

So heres what I got,

Cabela's -- Marine Tech Outboard Motor Brackets

I got the 4 stroke, 16 inch vertical travel, good for a 4 stroke motor up to 35 hp or 263 lbs..... $400 shipped....(Ouch! And that was the cheapest I could find after 3 days of shopping around) Go figure, the bracket cost more than the motor.
I figured I'd just shell out the cash this time because this wasn't an area I wanted to skimp on and I can easily up-size on the motor later down the road if I want.

Heres the newest series of questions I can't seem to answer:

Im planning on mounting it on the starboard side of the motor well. Does anyone have any advice as to how deep the prop should be in the water? The bracket I got said it has 16 inches of vertical travel and I would like it if it would come out of the water without tilting the motor, if at all possible (just in case the tilt on the motor is seized up). How far burried should the cavitation plate be? I was thinking 2-3 inches? Any advice?

Also, the area on the transom where i need to mount the bracket isn't perfectly flat, meaning I need to shim it somehow so it sits flush and doesn't flex when the motor turns. Its a small enough difference where I could just torque down the bolts and the mounting plate would probably just flex to compensate, but I dont want to take the chance on bending the bracket and causing friction when I lift it? Any ideas on how to do that? I could try oversized washers? Epoxy coated wood? I would like it to be a clean look....

Any suggestions would be awesome...

Thanks again for all the good advice so far...


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

sync,

Not familiar with your boat or how you plan to use the bracket in the well, if I am understanding your post correctely? A picture or drawing would help. From my experience with a Coronado 25 well I would suggest you get the lower unit as deep in the water as possible.

Dabnis


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

I'm not using the motor well, I'm going to mount the bracket off to the side and bolt it to the transom. I am 22 and already have minor back problems, I really don't want to be reaching down into the well and messing with the motor's tilt mech just to get it out of the water. Plus I'm pretty sure the motor (being a 25 inch shaft) would interfere with my rudder if I put it in the well. That's what happened with the last motor.


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

But I figured the rule would be as much as possibe...(when refering to the prop depth) Oh well, I'll figure something out


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Sync,

OK, now I get it. Too bad you can't use the well. No direct experience with the transom mount but have seen others in rough conditions have the prop coming out of the water. As mentioned earlier, the farther back the motor is the need for having it as deep as possible is critical. Also,transom re-enforcement may be necessary. Sounds complicated, good luck.

Dabnis


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Sync,

Been thinking a little more about this, hate to see you carve up your transom. How about a line from the end of your mainsail halyard to the back of the motor to tilt it up? Also, a spacer at the top of the well motor mount which would move the lower unit forward to clear the rudder? Benefits of using the well: Moves the weight farther forward, gets the prop deeper in the water, nothing sticking out behind the boat to hit the dock or other things, and leaves the transom un-altered. Made a sketch but can't figure out how to get it on this page. If you PM me I will try to send it as an attachment on an email to you.

Dabnis


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

dabnis: the outboard well on the C27 is really just a hole in the transom. Using it instead of bolting a bracket to the transom would probably move the prop a foot forward, but it would be nigh impossible to set up any mechanical advantage to use in lifting the motor. I've been thinking of rigging a purchase from the pulpit, but haven't tried it yet.

sync: It is indeed a pain in the back to stick your head in a hatch and reach through to lift the motor up. My motor has a half-way-up position that it will lock in, so I usually do it in two goes (also prevents me from tearing my knuckles open on the edge of the transom hole).

It's not clear to me how you plan to use the boat's tiller to steer the motor. Since they don't pivot the same point, if you attach the two tillers, the point of attachments will move the same distance given a particular angle of turn, so they should just lock up and resist one another from turning at all.

Pivoting the outboard on a C27 is going to be a hassle no matter how you do it. And I can promise you that the boat will still turn without the help of a pivoting outboard, though it is much trickier in reverse and works a lot better if you do your turning in neutral.


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## dabnis (Jul 29, 2007)

Adam & Sync,

Finally found some pictures of a Catalina 27 showing the "hole in the transom" 
well. I had it backwards, thought the motor would hit the forward edge of the rudder instead of the rear edge, if I am seeing the pictures correctly. It appears that you would have to trim the lower unit back to miss the rear edge of the rudder? This might lead the stern to squat more? As Adam said, maybe a purchase from the stern pulpit to the rear edge of the motor would help in tilting it up, maybe a line from the end of the main halyard through the well access cover to the back of the motor? In any event suggest you do some trial runs with the motor in the well before mounting the bracket and possibly having to re-enforce the inside of the transom.

Just my 2 cents worth, Dabnis


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Trimming the motor forward a bit (i.e. tilting it forward and up to move the prop back) would probably enable it to clear the rudder. However it would likely place the motor at a disadvantageous angle, performance-wise.

This weekend I will try to remember to measure my motor's draft; it's an Evinrude 9.9 long shaft (two stroke).

As for reinforcing the transom, I think it's essential. I would recommending filling in most of the hole and using a backing plate.


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

I definitely plan on reinforcing the transom for the bracket... I would also love to glass over the hole the next chance I get... The motor well seems in theory, a good design but it really is, in fact, just a hole in the transom. I would still have to rig a bunch of reinforcement to the bottom just to hang the motor. And even after that, for some reason, I'm uneasy about it. Also, if I have to trim the motor up to clear the rudder, the mount of the motor is going to be putting some serious forward pressure on the bottom of the hole and I just can't see it being sturdy enough.

If I use the bracket off to the side, I don't have to worry about striking the rudder, I can reinforce the inside easier, and the transom, toward the corner is naturally going to have more strength....

I hear what you are saying about the steering... I hear ya.. And you're probably right, but you know how it is when you get a funny idea in your head and you have to prove it to yourself that it doesn't work.... I will, probably in the end, end up mounting it in a static position.

I appreciate all the feedback.. I will keep you posted and let you know how it turns out. I get the new bracket on Tuesday so Im sure I'll be back at it soon after..


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

Well, its done...I just have to rig the controls and wire everything up. The bracket worked like a charm, best $400 Ive ever spent. I found some clear epoxy and hardener in my storage that I forgot about, and used it to coat a green treated 2X4, cut it up and use it as a backing plate on the inside of the transom. So far, everything works great. After I got it mounted, I actually sat on the motor mount while I raised and lowered it. I weigh about 170 so that impressed me. The motor weighs about 100 so its effortless to pull it up out of the water. I have it set up so the top of the impeller is down about 8 inches from the waterline. I think its going to work well. Ill post some pictures when I get back tomorrow, it was dark by the time I finished. 
So, basically, it was a real smooth project, largely due to all the good advice on here...
Thanks again!
Nick


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

Okay, Here it is....It worked beautifully! The bracket was worth every dime. I used epoxy coated board as a backing plate with 8 stainless bolts.. I actually sat on it and raised and lowered myself before the motor went on....Im about 170lbs....The counter springs reduced my weight to probably about 15 lbs...

And I'd be out sailing already if I could figure out the darn Yamaha 703 control box.... Hooked it all up and nothing, I can't get it to start....I went through the wiring on the motor but Im not getting any sign that the control box works... Hate to say it, but it was used off ebay for cheap...I hope its good...It could be the solenoid on the starter, the guy jumped it with a screwdriver the only time I saw the motor run. 
Anyone know how to set these things up or know a good place to get info???


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## GraemeInCanada (Jun 17, 2008)

I have the 703 controls on mine. My first question would be is the safety pin/emergency stop switch in?

Other than that it's one plug, make sure it's getting juice, you should have 4 leads out of it. Check to see if those are getting power.


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## sync (Apr 30, 2010)

Are you talking about the lanyard/overboard safety switch? Then yes, that's in... As far as getting juice, I opened up the control box and test the wires on either side of each switch for continuity and everything checks out. The red wire seems to be the only ho wire coming from the engine that feeds everything... And all the grounds are good both on the engine and in the box... I ended up taking it to a shop that a friend recommened. I'm sure it will cost me an arm and a leg but I wasn't geting anywhere with it and I was affraid I wad going to destroy something...


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## mk300ss (Dec 7, 2019)

Sync! 

Thank you so much for taking us through this process!! I just bought a Cat 27 with transom well + a brand new 4 stroke Mercury 15 HP electric start....and, imagine that, it had ZERO chance of fitting in the well. Also ebay....so no returns. :-(

I was concerned about the spring mount bracket on the side and was getting estimates to glass in the well...which was EXPENSIVE. 

Your post is giving me the confidence to go with a mount (off-center). 

I will also reinforce with wood or I'm thinking starboard - that marine plastic 

I'll let you know how it went.


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