# The Salt's Corner Table



## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

This thread is intended to give our distinguished Sailnet salts a place to dispense generalized tips, viewpoints, and advice to newbies.

In other words, it's a place for sailing newbs to come and hear it *straight from the source*.

One of the problems with a forum is that these salts have great advice that they've probably given a hundred times buried in threads all over the place. And that advice is always extremely valuable, just hard to find. And that ain't right.

So, the assignment for our salts is this: Think about the things us newbies always seem to want to know, and put the answer in here...once and for all. Whether it's electrical, boat design/type, sailing techniques, "how do I start", heavy weather techniques, rigging, refits, diesel engines, etc. - if you've answered it a million times...quote your best answer from another thread and drop it in here. This way, us newbs can link back to the discussion in that other thread and make things a lot easier to find.

Then we all can direct newbs to this thread where they can get the condensed version of some of the best sailing knowledge around. With that they'll be able to ask much better questions back in the respective threads.

*Now, for the newbs, this is not the place to ask your questions. Do that in specific threads after you've read about it here. This is just a place to come and listen to the sailors that have been where you are - have put many a mile under their keels since then - and are willing to share it all over a drink or two. So shut yer piehole, buy 'em a drink, and keep your ears open.

FOR THE REST OF US, our assignment is to dig around and try to find some of their good stuff and bring it back here to save the salts some effort and help the "library" grow. If you find one of their answers that nails a typical question...bring it to the table. Our salts just might be too humble...or drunk...to do it themselves.*

So...let's do this!

(PS - Since I'm a newb too, I'll be the bouncer...the guy in the tux at the right of the pic.)

+++++++++++++++++

Labatt - I think you would be a great one to kick us off since you've just returned from a killer cruise with your family. What are a few things you wished you'd known as you were gearing up to go?


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

I would find it educational to hear from a few guys like Boasun (professional mariner), Omatako (delivery skipper) and the "out there now or recently returned" cruisers answers to the following queries:

1) What do you think are the critical skills and techniques necessary to bringing you, the crew and the boat back to shore alive?

2) What cherished tenets have undergone a revision through your career as a sailor? What's changed in your mind and why?

3) What do you believe are the most important advances in gear, electronics or techniques in your life as a sailor? What are the least important, or most "oversold"?

Thanks in advance.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

First thing to remember: Do not go to sea when you are hung over... Unless you love hugging the commode.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

You will find that all of our sea tales do have a basis of fact in them. Listen carefully and you will find a lesson in them. 
You will find that practically all old sea dogs love a nice quiet boring watch. We have had more excitment in our lives then any twelve or more landlubbers.
So we plan out all of the possible things that can go wrong and DRILL for them.
Reef practice in good weather time and again. 
Fire: Train your crew in all of the various types of fire you will have on board.
Flooding: Learn to plug, wedge, and patch just about anything that is leaking. Yes! Drill for it.
Man/Crew overboard: Drill for it. Remember you are one less crew if someone goes over.
First Aid: Plan that you will be using it and learn how to cover all contigencies. Cut finger, Jellyfish stings to stroke, heart and diabities.
Broken rigging: Drill for it. How many times have you heard of people needing to be rescued because they couldn't deal with it. This includes blown out sails, parted shrouds, stays, sheets & haulyards. AND DIDN'T HAVE THE TOOLS ON BOARD.


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## imagine2frolic (Aug 7, 2008)

Boasun said:


> First thing to remember: Do not go to sea when you are hung over... Unless you love hugging the commode.


More than one boat has run into distress. Attending a going away party the night before, and leaving not in the best of health. Was the cause of one boat in particular while I was in P.V. Mexico. Luckily they got off a mayday, and was rescued, but EVERYTHING was lost. .....*i2f*


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*From "Bluewater Defined"...*

Jeff clarifies the issues surrounding the widely held notion that a "heavier" boat makes a better bluewater boat...



Jeff_H said:


> I think that it is a huge mistake to say that _"the most important feature of a ship sailing in the ocean is weight."_ In and of itself, weight does nothing good for a boat; In and of itself weight does not add strength, it does not add seaworthiness, it does not add carrying capacity, it does not add seaworthiness, it just adds higher stresses and makes a boat harder to handle.
> 
> While it is important to have adequate displacement to be able to carry the gear, consumables, and spares to make passages,and to have adequate structural strength and adequate ballasting to stand up to its rig, any weight beyond that is detrimental to the boats prime mission which from my perspective is to sail efficiently.
> 
> ...


And a further clarification...



Jeff_H said:


> I think these discussions often go around in circles because of the way that we come to define them. Perhaps this will clarify my point. It takes a certain amount of displacement to support the boat and crew. If we have two boats of equal dry load (meaning empty tanks, and lockers etc) displacement, generally the boat with the longer waterline will carry a larger percentage of its weight in full load capacity. Obviously there is a limit to how long an equal weight boat becomes before the boat ceases to be structurally suitable, but withing a reasonable range the longer boat of equal length will offer a gentler motion, a more easily driven hull and so a smaller sail plan making it easier to handle, and will perform better as well.
> 
> And By the same token the cost to build and the cost to maintain is larger proportionate to displacement rather than length.
> 
> ...


Good stuff.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Boasun said:


> You will find that all of our sea tales do have a basis of fact in them. Listen carefully and you will find a lesson in them.
> You will find that practically all old sea dogs love a nice quiet boring watch. We have had more excitment in our lives then any twelve or more landlubbers.
> So we plan out all of the possible things that can go wrong and DRILL for them.
> Reef practice in good weather time and again.
> ...


All of the above? Make a game of it. Keep it fun and you will keep the interest of your crew while they are learning. Think of it as insurance, if it is you that has fallen overboard or had a major burn or heart attack... They will have to get you back to port. You do want them to get your carcass back to port in reasonably safety


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*A great lesson on sail control in heavy weather...*



RobGallagher said:


> Jeff,
> 
> This is a little off the subject of heavy weather, but I have a question about boom vangs. My boat, a ''72 C&C 30 mk1 purchased last fall, does not have a boom vang. I have just started to consider one but I''m confused as to its use. For some reason I thought that using a vang to flatten the sail would power it up. In lighter winds and rolling seas (or stinkpot wakes) my boom "bounces" and this seems to reduce speed. More so with the wind behind me. Am I incorrect? I use my traveler and mainsheet to try to correct this (let the traveler out and bring the sheet in to reduce the angle of the mainsheet and put more tension on the boom).
> 
> ...





Jeff_H said:


> Hi Rob,
> 
> I apologize in advance if I am being to basic in this description for your knowledge level. The idea of ''powering up'' or ''powering down'' is a little bit counter-intuitive at first. Even many esperienced sailors do not have a clear picture of this concept. To explain; The amount of force that a sail generates is related to the shape of the sail and its angle of attack to the wind. Angle or attack, or incident angle, is the angle of the sail to the wind. A sail that is fuller (rounder) in shape generates more lift (the term lift is used because a sail is seen as a wing on edge and because, except down wind, the drive that a sail produces pulls the boat from the low pressure side of the sail rather than pushing the sail as one might otherwise assume). The flatter the sail the less lift is generated.
> 
> ...


And the follow up...



RobGallagher said:


> In the begining I did think that more heel = more speed. Till I learned a couple of hard lessons this spring getting hammered as wind speed increased and I was not prepared. Now I reef earlier  Am I correct to think that a boom vang will allow me a little more windspeed before having to reef?
> 
> Another question; When I am on a beat, sailing as close to the wind as I can, I bring the traveler all the way in to the windward side and tighten the mainsheet as much as I can. It seems that I lose speed but can sail closer to the wind. Also the jib luffs a little at this point no matter how much I try to bring it in. Am I gaining anything? Would it be better just to tack?
> 
> Thanks,





Jeff_H said:


> Hi Rob,
> 
> Depending on the point of sail, you are correct that a boom vang will allow you to reef at a slightly higher wind speed, but even before you have to reef, it can help reduce weather helm and heeling. This is especially true when power reeching in a range of wind angle between cracked off a beat to just below a beam reach. In that range of wind angles the boat has a tendancy to heel a lot and get unbalanced. The boom should be eased to the point that the mainsheet is no longer pulling downward at a nearly vertical angle. Without a vang you would need to have the boom in far enough that you aren''t luffing but in doing so you would have a lot of twist and the lower part of the sail would be overtrimmed. Using a vang you can remove this twist and so the sail would have a proper angle of attach up and down the sail. Without the overtrimmed lower portion of the sail the boat will be more comfortable, faster, and have less helm which at some point in the wind speed range means reefing later.
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*How do you prepare for heavy weather?*

From the great Billyruffn...



billyruffn said:


> Sab 30,
> 
> You've asked three questions. I'll take them in reverse order.
> 
> ...


PS - This is from the *Seamanship/Heavy Weather Sailing* thread - which is one of the best threads of all time on SN as far as I'm concerned. Lot's of salts laying down the big stuff for us newbs.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*What makes a "blue water" boat?*

Great summation...



Jeff_H said:


> This is the kind of a question that would require a book to answer properly, but I will take a stab at it. I apologize in advance for the length of my reply. Most of this response was written as a series of articles meant for another venue and so I am not sure that this flows all that well either, and for that I also apologize.
> 
> I think that the terms 'offshore' and 'coastal' get bandied about quite freely without any real thought about what the differences are. Even the term 'race boat' is a bit vague since all kinds of boats are raced in all kinds of differing types of competition. Race boats can therefore vary quite widely depending on the type of racing that they are intended for. I am assuming that you are not asking about small one design race boats as much as boats that at least to one extent or another can be raced or cruised in a pinch.
> 
> ...


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## T37Chef (Oct 9, 2006)

Why a corner table and not a bar?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Dude - you're a chef. Do the math. Heh-heh.


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## painkiller (Dec 20, 2006)

Actually, Chef has a point. A nice leather banquette would be apropos.


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## Undine (Jan 26, 2008)

Smacky wants a corner table so he can keep his back to the wall.


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## timebandit (Sep 18, 2002)

Rule #1

THE LAST THING YOU MUCKED WITH IS THE FIRST THING TO SCREW UP!

Rule #2

NOT ALL NEW THINGS WORK!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*More about coastal versus off-shore from Jeff*



Jeff_H said:


> I think that too much is made of these terms offshore or coastal cruisers. While there can be major distictions between how a specific boat is intended to be used, when you talk about extended cruising in areas that are somewhat breezy in nature, then you are better off in a boat that has certain kinds of attributes, (such as robust construction, good deck hardware, good sails and reefing gear, seaberths, plenty of storage and tankage, small but operable portlights, and a comparatively small cockpit with large drains.)
> 
> If you are an experienced sailor with good boat repairing skills, you can by with a boat that compromises on some of these characteristics and can upgrade the boat to over come any serious deficiencies.
> 
> ...


Theh this question and follow-up:
"I was wondering if you could recommend some shoal draft or center board or swing keel boats that you''d consider well enough built to handle that trip around the Carribean. I do have a budget of under 20-25,000 so I had been looking at production boats such as the O day''s and such. What models in the 29-31 foot range can you recommend? I know older boats were built heavier but does that also mean that its still stronger considering age and the pounding that its taken? I hear some folks here talk about how a production boat made in the 80''s doesn''t need to be as heavy as it is better enginered. I am unsure of which direction to head toward.??????"



Jeff_H said:


> I think there are a lot of good boats in the 20 to 25K range. I agree that many of the early fiberglass boats were quite heavy without being especially sturdy. The 1970''s was in some ways the sorst period because boats were getting lighter but engineering had not improved. By the 1980''s there was a better materials and methods as well as a better understanding of designing fiberglass structures.
> 
> Probably my favorite is the Tartan 30 from the 1970''s. These are nicely designed and reasonably constructed boats. I have posted this list before but here is my list of favorites under 25 K.
> 
> ...


Then this question and follow-up:

I am trying to get the handle on what I should look for, model, weight, price, year, or what? Can anyone shine a light on my questions? You mentioned that in the 80''s the boats were better made but lighter... can you explain that?



Jeff_H said:


> This is a very long one.
> 
> 1) "Isn''t heavier and thicker always better?"
> 
> ...


Epic stuff that!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*All about a compass - by a very cool dude...Omatako*

Responding to a post by another salt - Valiente...



Valiente said:


> I have a KMV AC105 fluxgate, a Raymarine chartplotter and a Ritchie Globemaster. Realistically, it is the fluxgate that is most accurate compass. I would consider a satellite compass for the reasons given above, and because I have a steel boat and it might be quite difficult to have the Ritchie "reswung" for the Southern Hemisphere. It's perfect at the moment in all directions (10.5 degree W variation), but I might not notice fluctuations in other parts of the world.
> 
> I freely admit a satellite compas is more than most need, as the error in a compass bearing over a short distance is rarely an issue. An error on a 1,000 mile passage can be dangerous, and more information is good.


He throws this down...



Omatako said:


> The variation is dictated by your geographical location and is accounted for when doing stuff like calculating CTS. Deviation is dependant on the magnetism built into the boat and doesn't change unless something in the boat changes. So a change in geographical location will not require the compass to be re-swung no matter which hemisphere you're in.
> 
> What can change from N to S is that the card in the compass has a tiny little weight on the underside that keeps the card level. When you change from one hemisphere to another, it is POSSIBLE that the card will lie at a strange angle brought about by large changes in magnetic variation from one hemisphere to another but the headings will not change in terms of deviation.
> 
> ...


Omatako has tons of other stuff - so stay tuned.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*How do you prepare for heavy weather?*

Another great post by Omatako:



Omatako said:


> It is my considered opinion that nothing can prepare you for the first time you're in full charge of your own boat and you come up on deck in a shrieking 60 knot wind and see breaking 30 foot waves stretching from horizon to horizon.
> 
> Baptism by fire is the only way you'll experience this because no sucker is going to take you out in such conditions for a mentoring session and when you get into such conditions, you'll learn real fast the first time or you'll not get the opportunity again.
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*The costs of owning a boat...*

Good info from CD..



Cruisingdad said:


> I can understand why others here would warn you away from a Hinkley as a first boat. I will dissagree. If the boat touches you, go for it. They are well built and will hold their value well (as will the boats I mention). I just do not consider learning to sail to be that big of a deal. Motoring is the hard part, but you will figure it out. Gell coat is not that expensive to repair (I just got a bill for $350 last weekend and I have been boating for 15 years). Get the boat that touches you the first time and if you like the name and reputation of the Hinckley, go for it. You won't be ashamed of the boat and she will keep you safe as long as you don't do something stupid. Keep her at a good yard where you can either have your maintenace done or be supervised as you learn it yourself. Good yards/marinas are expensive so don't go cheap.
> 
> Sahara may be able to give you a better idea on costs of the Hinckley, but our costs at 40/42 feet run about $7,500 annually not counting any major purchases. When we move her to Florida, those costs will increase $5100 to about $12,600. If you are going to take out a loan, you will need to add that into the cost of the boat too. Our boat is new, though, so we may not have the maintenance issues you have. Our neighbors who have a Panda, Mason, and Taswell (and dad on his Tayana 42) do most of their own maintenance and varnish and I would suspect you might enjoy doing it too. I think those of you that own those types of boats would get some enjoyment from doing it.
> 
> ...


Does anyone know of another good summation of ongoing costs for owning? This seems to be a frequent question.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*What kind of boat should I buy?*

Another great one from davidpm...



davidpm said:


> Welcome aboard Alan. I think I know exactly how you feel. I was in the same place 30 years ago and still remember the indecision and frustration.
> 
> You asked a lot of good questions in a forum filled with people with thousands of years total experience. Unfortunately however a good answer for you to each question is going to be based on what kind of sailor you are and what kind of person you are.
> Since you are not a sailor and we know almost nothing about you, all the answers you get are going to be based on just guesses regarding you.
> ...


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## RhosynMor (Apr 23, 2008)

Ok, ALthough I do not think of myself as an old salt we have done a number of miles and passages, so for what is wirth heres my 0.02;

you really do not need a heavy displavement full keel boat for cruising.
keeping your systems simple pays off , no waiting for parts for yer refer etc.
Learn to sail your boat... you do need to be able to sail on and off an anchor without your motor, to heave to, etc etc. SAil your boat as if it were engineless.
IT does not cost anywhere near what you think it must to cruise, I was very happy on less than 200 a month, and as a couple we seem to be at about 300 a month ( plus boat maintenance)
Eat well- its important.
dont worry about the cosmetics, spend your time and money on the important systems.
COmfort is very very important, so make sure your boat is as comfortable as it can be, little luxuries like full length mirros do wonders for morale.
if you have to have a choice between insurance and equipment spend the money on way oversize anchors and chain ( lots of both)
you can never have too much line onboard
its meant to be fun, not an endurance contest, so always take the easy route.
Never buy a project boat thinking its a cheaper way into sailing- its not 
Cruising you will very very rarely encounter truly heavy weather
its amazing how strong your realtionship will become after a few days at sea.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Thanks Rhos. I've started linking newbs to this thread so they can get some of the best answers to FAQs as quickly as possible.

Great stuff.

Cheers!

PS - I never said you were "old". Just salty! Heh-heh.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Now how about some of you gear heads dig up some good stuff from the G&M forum?? And somebody get MaineSail over here!!


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

RhosynMor said:


> Ok, ALthough I do not think of myself as an old salt we have done a number of miles and passages, so for what is wirth heres my 0.02;
> 
> you really do not need a heavy displavement full keel boat for cruising.
> keeping your systems simple pays off , no waiting for parts for yer refer etc.
> ...


And your sense of confidence becomes stronger also.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*Are old fiberglass boats near dead? (Old vs. New)*

Another good summation by JeffH:



Jeff_H said:


> This topic comes up frequently. Here is my response from a similar thread comparing older to newer boats:
> 
> Obviously, one of the most obvious differences between early fiberglass boats and more modern fiberglass construction is sheer amount of weight and how it is distributed. but there are also big differences in how they were built.
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*Tandem Anchoring Techniques*

One version of how to do a tandem anchor for tide/wind shifts...



Giulietta said:


> I anchor many many times in a place called Culatra Island, here in Portugal.
> 
> It has 3 to 5 knot currents twice a day, in both directions.
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*How do I get started and what does it cost?*

Here's some great info from a couple of older but still great articles from Sue & Larry:

*The Cruising Life - How to Get Started, Part One*

*The Cruising Life - How to Get Started, Part Two*


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*Sailing in Fog*

A great rundown on radar setup/usage and sailing in fog by Maine Sail...



Maine Sail said:


> Being from Maine and cruising from Maine to Canada I find this statement from Raymarine rather ridiculous.
> 
> I have had radar mounted on the mast, a Questus back stay mount and a pole. I currently have it on a pole and HATE IT for performance reasons. Even when I had it on the mast, on three other boats I've owned, I could pick up my boat neighbors in the mooring field with no problems.
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*Battening down for heavy weather*

A great thread on prepping for a serious blow from the "Seamanship" forum...

*LINK HERE*


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*What is the "perfect boat"?*

Jeff gives his opinion on that...



Jeff_H said:


> I am not sure that there is such a thing as a perfect boat. Years ago, Tony Dias, a yacht designer friend of mine, was writing a book called "Designer and Client" showing how the design process worked by cronicling the process of designing boats for seven real people. I was one of them.
> 
> Here was the description that I wrote of my ideal boat for the book.
> 
> ...


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## WhatTheFoley (Mar 30, 2009)

Awesome thread Smack! Keep it coming, this stuff is GREAT! I doubt I'm salty enough to contribute, but this really is a great wealth of knowledge! Thanks!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

No worries dude. When you run across a great post like the above come drop it in here. The thing is we all have different areas of interest so we will each find great stuff in different threads. With a collective effort we should be able to build a great quick reference library of salty stuff. And hopefully the salts themselves will keep adding too.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*Going off-shore...*

A great write up by Jeff/Admin. Don't know I've missed this one. Click into the thread to see some additional great comments...



administrator said:


> Advice to an Offshore First-TimerKnowing what to pack, how to act, and when to ask questions makes the learning curve at sea easier to climb. From "Hands-On-Sailor" March 2008
> Apr 2, 2008
> By Andrew Burton - republished with permission by Crusing World Magazine
> 
> ...


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## St Anna (Mar 15, 2003)

Wonderful thread smack. The advice in your last post (quoting Jeff) is all you need for your list. 

There was an old saying on the square riggers. " Grumble you may, but go you must" - just get the job done!


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

A lot of good advice in this thread, can't say that i'd agree with all of it. E.g.: I don't agree with Jeff's putting CCA or Universal rule boats in the same category as IOR when it comes to seaworthiness- In fact the opposite is true. IMS can make for a good boat but IMHO CCA made for a very good heavy weather boat as I can attest from personal experience. Tippy and wet is a good trade off for easy motion and an aversion to floating upside down- something (much) more common in IOR (and some later) boats. Universal rule boats are very narrow but if you avoid those with the extreme cutaway of the forefoot, also make good (albeit tippy)sea boats.

End of rant.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*Sailing without a rudder*

Here's a good summation of what to think about if the unthinkable happens. It's from one of the past SN greats, Robert Gainer. It's a great thread...check it out.



Tartan34C said:


> It's funny how we are all trapped within our own experience and education. I have used a drag, that is to say a bucket on a dock line, to steer a single engine powerboat that lost steering. A drag is fine and it's worth knowing about the technique because it might be appropriate one day. After all you might lose steering on a sailboat while motoring near shore. Of course on a powerboat with twin engines the loss of steering is a minor annoyance at worst.
> 
> But while under sail I think steering with balance and if absolutely necessary the smallest jury rudder possible might be a better choice then a drag. A drag doesn't lend itself to use during severe weather for one thing. The response time isn't adequate and the strain is significant when you are sailing with any reasonable speed. You also have a greater chance of problems popping up with a jury rig like a drag. You can expect problems ranging from the sea sweeping a crew member off the deck to fouling the gear because of the boats movement during a storm if you try to steer using something that requires an exposed crewmember and lots of line run all over the place.
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*What is a "balanced" boat*

And another from Gainer from the same thread...



Tartan34C said:


> As you said a balanced boat is a boat that doesn't have any tendency to take off on her own and change course unexpectedly. A lot of things need to be in place if you want to succeed at this. First the rig and boat need to work together. The shape of the boat itself is important because as the boat heels its center of lateral resistance will change if the boat changes trim. So a modern boat with a wide transom and the center of buoyancy more then 54% of the waterline aft and a fin keel and spade rudder will be almost imposable to make balanced under anything but the calmest conditions. As the boat heals the stern raises and pushes the bow done and the center of area in the sailplan moves relative to the center of lateral resistance. The boat will wander as she rolls because of this. It's hard on a windvane system or helmsmen.
> 
> An older design such as one designed under the CCA rule tend to have longer ends then a modern boat and more importantly the distribution of volume under the waterline is more even forward and aft with the center of buoyancy closer to amidships. As this boat rolls she will not change trim so you don't need rudder input to go straight while rolling. If you need to keep adjusting the rudder while sailing you will never be able to sail just by balancing the boat. Try this with your boat, go out on a gusty day and if you need to add much rudder as the boat heals in a gust then you will have trouble getting her to selfsteer without a windvane or the use of the rudder. If you want to be on the safe side and avoid having someone outside during bad weather playing with lines and jury-rigs to steer after you have rudder problems because your boat doesn't steer straight by herself you might want to consider a different boat. I don't like double-enders but that hull form is the most balanced and its one of the reasons the type got its reputation for safety offshore. No mater what else happened you could at least depend on keeping control of a double ender and that's one of the reasons the shape was used as a sailing lifeboat in the north sea.
> 
> ...


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Jeez, Smackie, keep posting good stuff in this thread and I'm going to have to assume you've actually been paying attention!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Huh?

Actually, Val, I wish some of the gear-heads would drop a few of the best G&M responses (batteries, diesels, etc.). Personally, I don't go there much yet. So it would be great if others started dropping the good stuff in here too. There's a crap-load of great salty replies I haven't seen yet.


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

smackdaddy said:


> And another from Gainer from the same thread...


Yep, trim her right and ours self steers just fine. Never been able to pull that off on a "modern" (IMS) boat.

Being a yawl helps too.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*Heavy Weather Points of Sail*

Usually I'll pull in a post or two that prove stellar saltiness. But this whole damn thread deserves hall of fame status:

Heavy Weather Points of Sail

It's a tremendous example of how cool the salts are here at SN.


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## Maine Sail (Jan 6, 2003)

*Anchoring..*

While I don't consider myself a "salt", too young for that, I have been sailing, commercial fishing, worked in boat yards, doing deliveries and in general boating for over 38 years. If some consider that salty enough so be it..

Anchoring is a sore spot for me with many boaters because I witness soooo much bad anchoring skills that it scares me. I have also helped kedge and pull a good many boats off the rocks, in my years on the water, that should have never been there in the first place, if proper technique had been employed. This is only a guide, not a bible. Others may do it slightly differently but the consistently successful ones will all employ good technique.

*Anchoring*
Here's a quick run down on the anchoring technique I generally use. Even with extra crew on board I anchor & moor solo about 85-90% of the time.*

Scope:* This is perhaps the single most important and over looked aspect of anchoring and setting your ground tackle. Scope is the angle of attack, if you will, of the rode or anchor line in relation to the bottom. The longer the scope the more parallel to the bottom the rode will be and the less likely to yank the anchor out from a more vertical pull. A short or steep scope angle will most certainly yank the anchor out of the bottom and will not hold well when the wind pipes up.

*How do I know what my scope should be?*

Scope is easily calculated, but often calculated incorrectly. Scope is simply the max water depth, plus the distance of your bow chock or cleat to the water, plus any off set for your depth transducer. Huh?

Ok, you pull into an anchorage at low tide and it has a current water depth of 10 feet. The area you are in has a ten-foot tidal range, Maine or the Canadian Maritimes. So your max water depth will be 20 feet. You know your bow chock is 4 feet off the water and your depth transducer is 1 foot bellow the surface, and not calibrated as such. So you simply add 20 feet of water depth, to 4 feet of bow height, to 1 foot of transducer depth for a total of 25 feet of scope basis to get to a 7:1 scope.

To set your anchor you'll want to be using a minimum of 5:1 scope but the preferred setting scope remains 7:1. So the 10 feet of water you read on your depth sounder was actually 11 because your transducer is a foot bellow the waters surface and when the tide is added to the bow height your 10 feet of water depth turned into 25.

So let's pretend you think you set your anchor at a 5:1 scope, based on the 10 feet of water depth you saw on your depth gauge. Don't feel bad as many sailors and boaters do this. A 5:1 scope for 10 feet is simple, it's 5 X 10 = 50 feet of scope. Oh, oh the tide comes in and you have mis-calculated your scope at a mere 50 feet! For the example from above you now actually have 25 feet of depth from the bottom of the ocean to your bow cleat or chock, not the ten feet you mistakenly calculated.

For this same 5:1 scope you would need 125 feet of rode, not 50 feet. 50 feet of rode for a 25 foot scope basis is a very dangerous, and potentialy baoat destroying, 2:1 scope, or almost vertical at high tide. You are nowhere near a 5:1 with 50 feet in 10 feet of depth once the tide comes in. Again, this is a very common mistake. Calculate scope carefully and always add the bow height and max tidal depth.

* Rode:* This is the second most overlooked aspect of anchoring. At a minimum you'll probably want to be using 1.5 times the boat length of chain then a suitably sized, & elastic in nature, nylon rode. A bare minimum of chain length would be one times the boats length despite what some anchor manufacturers recommend. Chain also prevents abrasion of the rode on underwater coral or rocks. An all chain rode is always better but you will need to use a very elastic snubber to prevent shock loading of the chain in rough winds. 
*
Why is the chain important?*

The chain serves a few purposes: 1) It serves as a weight to help prevent the anchor line from snapping tight in light to moderate conditions. It also keeps a curve or caternary in it during mild to moderate winds helping to keep the angle of attack on the anchor correct. In high winds a sentinel or kellet may be needed to maintain caternary but even kellets stop working as the wind rises. 2) It prevents the nylon anchor line or rode from chafing on coral or rocks on the bottom. 3) It aids the anchor in proper setting by keeping the shank down so the flukes/fluke can penetrate when backing down.

* Anchors:* All anchors are not created equal and there is far too much to be written on this here. Some anchors do not re-set well on a wind and tide shift and thus should not be used when a wind or tide shift is expected. Some anchors perform better than others do for certain bottom types and it should be up to the boat owner to thoroughly research which anchor will perform best for his or her environment.

In a general summary Danforth types, which include the Fortress, do not always like to re-set on wind and tide, reliably. Bruce or Claw styles are generally good setters and re-setters but offer lower holding power and should be up sized at least one or two sizes beyond the original recommended sizes. World cruisers, and authors, Beth Leonard and Evans Starzinger use a claw that is a full five sizes bigger than the manufacturers recommendation.

CQR's or plow styles can give false sets (see photo) and should always be properly set and then checked for set by backing down.

The new generation anchors such as Spade, Rocna & Manson Supreme & Bullwega are generally excellent performers, and practically set them selves, but they are not the be all end all's, there is no perfect anchor, and should also always be set and checked for set...

When I mention partially set CQR's this photo is exactly what I'm referring to. This pictured CQR is absolutely not set enough for a sudden storm.

Photo From Sail Magazine Anchor Test Report:









* Technique:*

* #1) Examine the anchorage:* Make careful observations & based on weather predictions chose a spot that will be better protected from the prevailing winds and listen to the forecast predictions. Also take note of how others are anchored and envision a 7:1 scope to mentally picture where their anchor might be on the bottom in relation to their bow. DO NOT drop your hook on top of someones anchor.

If everyone is bow and stern anchored you'll want to do the same, or there will be "swinging" issues! If everyone is bow anchored only please, please, please do not bow and stern anchor. All boats must swing naturally, and in unison with the tide, current or winds. If one boat is bow and stern anchored it will not swing with the crowd and there will be fiberglass on fiberglass contact. Been there, witnessed it..

Anchoring contradictory to the crowd already there is generally rude and inconsiderate. Boats on permanent moorings are for the most part in most locales on a 2:1 scope and will swing around their bows, but will move very little compared to a boat on a 7:1 anchor scope so be careful and stay far enough away from anchoring near permanently moored boats.

In light air, boats with an all chain rode will not swing as far, or as fast, as those using a nylon/chain rode so take note of who has all chain to the deck. Choose your spot and visualize your boat swinging in unison with the others in a 360 pattern. If your spot has you hitting other boats during this 360 visualization exercise find a new one..

* #2) Prepare & set:* Once you've determined your "spot" calculate your scope as described above. For the best results use 7:1 for setting. 5:1 is an absolute bare minimum for setting and should be avoided if you want consistent results. As you approach your "spot" shorten the dinghy painter so it will not foul the prop when backing down. Slide the gear shifter into neutral and gently glide past, and over, where you actually want the anchor to set. Once beyond your "spot" slip it into reverse and get the boat going in a straight line backwards but SLOWLY at perhaps .3 to .5 knots. Lock the wheel or tiller to keep her as straight as possible and walk carefully & slowly to the bow.
*
#3 Play out the rode:* As you begin to move backwards begin playing out the rode. Do not just drop a pile of chain or rode to the bottom, it will tangle the flukes. The rode must be played out while moving backwards, gently and methodically. As you begin to get to about a 4:1 (your rode should be marked in feet or meters) gently snub the anchor for a test bite. This will orient the anchor to a proper setting angle if it has not already happened. If you begin to feel resistance let off your snub and continue playing out line until you hit 7:1+ gently snubbing along the way every now and then. If your boat is falling off the wind these test bite snubs will orient the bow into the wind, and direction of the anchor, so you'll know it's biting.The greater the scope used in setting the better the result and better the odds of a first try set will be. 
*
#4 Setting the Anchor:* You're not done yet.. With the boat at 7:1, with a good test bite on the hulls backwards momentum, let the weight of the boat and the remaining momentum partially set the anchor and come to a stop. Once the boat has finished stopping, and is back to a taught line, not jerked forward from nylon rode stretch, run the engine up to full cruise RPM, usually 80% of max rated throttle, and finish setting or burying the anchor. With small outboards you'll likely want to use full reverse as they tend to have lower reverse thrust when compared to inboard engines. If the anchor moves or drags you'll need to start over.

No small AUX sailboat engine should be able to budge a properly sized and set anchor for the given boat. If it does you need new ground tackle or need to re-set and try again.

For example 30 knots on a 36 foot sloop is about 900 pounds of force on the anchor. My 36 footer has a 44 h.p. diesel spinning a 16" prop and can only develop just over 500 pounds of reverse thrust at 80% of max throttle, or nearly 50% less applied force to the anchor than 30 knots. You do not need to worry about "ripping your anchor out" by applying lots of reverse thrust unless you get a running start, with slack rode, and you have the revers thrust of the engine then added to the boats 17,000 pounds of displacement inertia. I find it best to begin the back down & set with a taught rode vs. one with slack in it.

This last step, 80% of max throttle, is very important and is one many overlook. Bottoms are often made of "layers" and the top silt layer is easily penetrable and will hold fine in light conditions but not moderate or high winds. You want to dig the anchor into the next layer, the one that is much harder, and will hold even in high winds to be properly set.

I have spent a good deal of time diving on anchors and I can assure you a solid 80% of the anchors out there are not properly set. With CQR's this is usually represented by a partial sideways set meaning it is laying on its side with the tip partially buried. Bruce/Claw anchors can exhibit a similar behavior. There was a perfect picture of a CQR doing this in the Sail Magazine anchor-testing article from last year which I have added to thsi post. If you are not back-winding the sails or using upwards of 80% of your engines capacity your anchor is probably not really well "set checked".

* #5 Shortening scope:* Now that you set the anchor it is somewhat safe, depending on your choice of anchor, and chain/rode configuration, to shorten to a safer swinging scope for the anchorage you're in. 4:1 is the generally accepted minimum for calm conditions or winds bellow 10 knots but I have used 3:1 before in a very protected spot with minimal swing room and an anchor that can handle 3:1.

5:1 can usually be safe to around 14-15+/- and any wind speeds over that you will generally want more scope. Try and pick areas that will allow you to use the max allowable scope in case of a micro-burst or sudden storms or high winds. If you leave your self only enough room for 4:1 you'll likely get precisely what you ordered, the "disaster plate special with a side order of heartburn and severe anxiety". Doh'....

Hope this helps and that I did not forget anything. Feel free to add any tips I forgot. Anchoring is one of the most important aspects of boating and one that is often overlooked...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Awesome post Maine! And dude, you may not be old, but you're seriously salty. Thanks for the contribution.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Here's one of my favorite posts from one of my favorite salts - Knothead. It's from the "SupaShakedown Checklist" thread. And it's a great view of the all-things-gear-and-preparation versus can-you-ever-fully-prepare conundrum from a very experience rigger...



knothead said:


> I am really surprised that I only learned of this thread this very evening.
> Although I usually check the current posts everyday, somehow this thread eluded me.
> 
> Smack, I truly don't think there is any possible way to define a checklist that would be applicable to everyone.
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Anyone else seen some good salty answers around? Let me know and I'll lug 'em over here.

I just pointed a dude to Main's radar write up. Good stuff.

Let's keep it going. What's the best Gear and Maintenance mojo you've seen?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I thought this was a good brief summary to the "Cost of Ownership" question....



GreatWhite said:


> Don't forget insurance...it sounds like you can source that your self.
> 
> as has been mentioned it depends on the standard to which you want to keep the boat. This is something you might want to decide this ahead of time. It is possible to spend little and have the boat slowly deteriorate or spend in the neighborhood of a $1000 or two a year and probably keep a good old boat roughly in the shape it is in (this is an estimate only a good survey will help identify any upcoming short term - medium and possibly some long term repairs).
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Here's another good answer from Jeff on the lifespan of a typical fiberglass hull...replete with his wonton embarrassment emoticons...



Jeff_H said:


> "I would not think that a well- constructed fiberglass has a life span per se. Neither concrete nor fiberglass inherently breaks down or loses strength simply on their own without other factors coming into play. They require other causes. In the case of fiberglass loss of strength can result from one or more of the following,
> 
> -The surface resins will UV degrade.
> -Prolonged saturation with water will affect the byproducts formed in the hardening process turning some into acids. These acids can break down the bond between the glass reinforcing and the resin.
> ...


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

> Then there is the issue of maintainable vs. durable/low maintenance design concepts. Wooden boats for example represent the difference between a maintainable construction method versus a low maintenance/ durable method. A wooden boat can be rebuilt for a nearly infinite period of time until it becomes a sailing equivalent of 'George Washington's axe' (as in "that's George Washington's axe. It's had a few new handles and a few new heads but that is still George Washington's axe".) The main structure of a fiberglass hull is reasonably durable and low maintenance but once it has begun to lose strength, there is nothing that you can do.


Just a couple of additions to an otheriwise great post: 
1- unlike glass, wood doesn't care how many times it's flexed (imagine how many cycles a redwood or bristlecone pine has gone through in 4000+years).

2- yes, wood parts can be replaced as long as you have a saw and fasteners. *But, *with proper care and maintenance (paint etc.) that piece may not need replacing for 100+ years (if ever- see #1 above).

3- on wood boats, metal fastenings are usually more a longevity concern than the wooden structure they hold together *( it's always something). Saw a trunnel fastened skiff where the fasteners lasted 120+years.


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

*A few more*

Smack - I wasn't a fan of this thread when I first read the title. I use the "add post to favorites" feature to do much the same thing. However, after reading several of your re-posts, I see that there is a LOT of value to sharing what different individuals have determined as valuable posts.

So here are a couple of my favorite "salty" posts.

Storm Prep
Pre-Voyage Checklist
Pre-Sail Checklist

P.S. MainSail, IMHO, is salty enough to put on chips.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Cool - thanks for the additions corm and herli. 

I just think it's convenient for people to be able come to one place and get a wide range of great answers on frequently asked questions. It saves them having to research from scratch - and gives them a jumping-off place to go to those threads where the stuff they are interested in is discussed. And it saves the old farts (ehh...salts) from having to answer the same questions over and over. So it's a win/win.

Yeah - some people harsh me for simply being a cutter-and-paster, but who cares? It's about making learning easier for us newbs. So scroom.

And herli, you're right on about Main. Salt and Vinegar baby...the real deal.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Here's a great report from the boat buying front from JW. Great stuff.



Jasper Windvane said:


> I won't go into all the details, but:::... I've been looking for a boat,
> finally got my financial house in order, and now I want to get back on
> the water .. I looked at this boat, that boat, fell in love, fell out of love,
> talked to this one, sent emails to that one .. and came across a boat
> ...


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

smackdaddy said:


> Here's a great report from the boat buying front from JW. Great stuff.


Hey Smack... I am a little unclear on the context of this post that you are refering to... but I for one would not choose this approach in purchasing a boat.

I would talk to the PO and feel the person out. If I liked the boat and had chemistry with the PO then I would be way more interested in making an offer. I would value a boat that was owned by a knowlegable owner much more that someone who didn't know what they were doing. The reason for this is based in sound economics, if the boat has been well loved and meticulously maintained by a person with integrity it is going to have a lot less trouble in the future. Also it is more enjoyable to buy a boat off someone you respect and would feel comfortable calling up to ask a question. This is a reason why I have never bought a boat through a broker.

As the quote you have posted eludes to, is that the intial purchase price is only the starting pointing in expendatures that one will be facing over the life of the boat.

The more complicated and cruising orientated the boat is the more that this applies IMHO.

Am I missing something here?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Great - I know this one is a bit iffy from various standpoints (e.g. - the 24-hour deadline, the "blew it" aspect, etc.).

But *JW's thread here* has led to a great conversation about the pros and cons of this philosophy. And I guess that's the point.

What appealed to me personally was the logical aspect of it. It is so easy for the buyer to get caught up in the emotional side of the purchase. On the one hand, there's nothing wrong at all with being friends with the seller. On the other hand, that's not the point of the transaction (per se) and can adversely affect how much you pay. BTW - as Still pointed out, it can also positively affect it as well. So again, it's iffy.

I agree with you that buying from someone that is knowledgeable and has meticulously cared for the boat is the best possible option. But I think JW's point is that many, many times that owner will put more value on the boat than it's actually worth due to the time/money/energy/memories/etc. he/she has spent on it. From that standpoint, I think his advice of making an educated, logic-driven, firm, ready-to-move offer is good. It's simple.


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## GreatWhite (Jan 30, 2007)

yes interesting thread...I will put my 2 cents over there!

Cheers


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## Jaywalker (Dec 16, 2009)

Some years ago, Angus Phillips, Outdoor Editor of The Washington Post, offered these aphorisms:

- The two happiest days of a boat owner's life are the days he buys his boat and the day he sells it.

- Boat funerals are expensive - avoid being the last owner.

- High winds and seas are a bad time to discover why the builder only made three copies of that design. 

The only other lessons of life I can offer have to do with living in the Washington, DC, area, though they aren't salty - they apply to the awful traffic in the area and how to handle it. (1) Never put a bridge between where you work and where you live. (2) Do all your sight-seeing in the first year - you won't want to face the traffic after that.

I intend to absorb a few more lessons since I'm retired, including sleeping late, going where and when I want to, and generally learning how to slow down. Sailing seems a good fit...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

JRP just reminded me of this thread about buying and restoring a boat "on the cheap". It's a classic.

And the cool thing is it has an update by Linvinondreams, the original poster. Great stuff with great advice from several SN salts.

*youngbuck trying to start cruising*


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Here's another great one regarding hose clamps for your seacocks. Lot's of boats going down in the slip lately. So this is pretty key.

Here's the question...



downeast450 said:


> I replaced ALL hose clamps on my boat in April 09, prior to launch. It was a new boat to me and I had just replaced the Atomic-4 so as part of getting a baseline established for ongoing maintenance and because I had easy access to some spaces when the engine was out I decided to renew them all. My source of replacement clamps was Hamilton Marine and they were all quality clamps. I doubled clamps on thru-hulls, etc. As the year went on I discovered 2 broken clamps while the boat was still on the water. They were resting in place but had snapped. When I was winterizing prior to last week's haul out I discovered a third! None of the broken clamps resulted in any leaks.
> 
> I am wondering how often broken hose clamps show up. Perhaps I am tightening them with a bit too much vigor? I am considering changing some of the more critical clamps to the more robust type that use a threaded ss bolt and nut to tighten them.
> 
> George


And here's MaineSail's answer...



Maine Sail said:


> The only "quality" clamps Hamilton sells are the t-band clamps and the AWAB's. The others are the typical POS Ideal clamps. Do not use perforated hose clamps AWAB's are about the best you can find in a non t-band style.
> 
> Do not use perforated clamps like these:
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*What is the keel contribution in capsizing?*

Came across this very informative response to the above question. Great thread...



shaile said:


> Hi all,
> I am a newbie here (in the world I am veteran),
> I wonder whether the keel contributes to decelerating a potential capsize in breaking waves or contributes to the rolling and thus to the potential capsizing.
> In other words, is the stream under the boat slower than the rolling velocity while capsizing (then the keel stops the rolling) or does the stream under the boat actually pushes the keel (in breaking waves) and contribute to the rolling ?
> ...


And Jeff_H's answer...



Jeff_H said:


> _This is an excerpt from a draft of an earlier article that I wrote for a different purpose but which addresses the basic issues that you are asking about._
> 
> The impact of the keel and rudder design on the tendency of a particular boat to capsize has become a bit of a controversial topic. The testing that resulted in the wake of the Fastnet Disaster seemed to come up with what might appear to be contradictory information. I hope to explain some of those contradictions.
> 
> ...


Great stuff.


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## cormeum (Aug 17, 2009)

This should be here, Quoted for Truth:


CharlieCobra said:


> Many people follow my threads on the restoration of Oh Joy it seems. Most just read them and go on, either because they don't know enough to comment or don't see anything to comment on. Some comment about how HUGE the project is and that they are amazed by the undertaking.
> 
> Why is that? Now that I've dug into the old girl I'm finding that repairing and restoring this fine old wooden yacht is really quite simple. Folks who own fiberglass boats in particular are usually intimidated by the thought. They don't think anything of stripping the skin off the deck of a glass boat to repair a section of rotten core or cutting out a section of busted glass and repairing it so why would they find a wood boat so intimidating?
> 
> ...


Edit: "Fame" a Crowinshield racing schooner,which recently had her 100th birthday, is for sale here in Chicago. Great boat.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I had to copy this reply from ZZ because it's great info for newbs learning about crewing for races - which is always one of the main suggestions for a person new to sailing to get some experience. At least now you won't show up completely clueless!



zz4gta said:


> Jeff.
> I grew up in Woodbridge and now live in Leesburg, small world. Anyway, I'd love to have you, and to get a good idea about racing, check out this site RACING BASICS - Beginner's Racing Manual
> 
> A lot of it is for smaller boats, but all the tactics, weight placement, and sail trim is pretty much dead on.


It's cool to see stuff from the racers around here. It would be great to get tips on strategy, minimal upgrades, etc. for those of us toying with the idea - but still too chicken to try it.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I've come across several great Sailnet articles that, while getting a little wrinkledy, are top notch stuff:

*Spring Safety Measures* by John Rousmaniere

Having a device like the Lifesling on your boat (far right above) is a great idea-if you know how to use it in an emergency.

Where I am, north of the Mason-Dixon line, it's fitting-out season-otherwise known as Spring-and superb weather has the boatyards and backyards full of people preparing their boats for the summer. This is a good time to take a few moments to think about three fundamental issues that are too often taken for granted once you're afloat and distracted by the joys of sailing. One of these issues is crew-overboard rescue. Another is flares. And the third is the invaluable skill of handling squalls and heavy weather. All three subjects require attention to equipment, forethought, and dedicated practice. So I invite you to engage in three fitting-out projects that may well end up saving your boat or even your life.
Using the Lifesling In two talks that I've given recently in Annapolis and Westport, CT, I asked how the audiences prepared for the dreaded crew-overboard emergency. Well over half the boat owners reported that they carry Lifeslings. This response was gratifying, for the Lifesling is a superb rescue device that, if properly set up and employed, goes a long way toward solving the problem of getting a person who is in the water reattached to the boat and back on deck.

"Great news," said I. "So how many of you have actually practiced using your Lifeslings?" Half the hands fell. It turned out that a lot of people hadn't even taken their slings out of the pouch. They knew nothing about a piece of equipment that exists solely to save their lives.

Every sailor should put in the time to get to know his or her Lifesling. Take a couple of hours to study the manual and the simple directions on the pouch. Inspect the system for wear, chafe, and weakness in the line and stitching. Select a halyard to use as a crane to hoist the swimmer out of the water. Determine if you'll need a tackle (a big, self-tailing winch might be enough). Then mark the halyard at the right height. (At a demonstration this spring, the halyard was set too low to raise the victim to deck level, much less over the lifelines.) Install the Lifesling packet on the inside of the after pulpit so it won't fall into the water if the fittings fail. Then tie the line securely to a through-bolted fitting on the afterdeck. When underway, stream the sling astern in order to stretch the kinks out of the line. Then practice: throw a cushion in the water and try a quick-stop or Figure-8 maneuver under sail and under power. Walk your crew through the drill. Also, schedule a warm-water practice session using a live victim in the water, but have a small boat standing by to assist.

All it takes is a little time and focused attention. Think of the pleasure you'll give your significant other when you're finally able to provide a detailed, convincing answer to the question, "Dear, if you do fall overboard-how do I to get you back?"

SOLAS flares-the orange and yellow ones above-are a must for offshore sailors.
Better Flares If your flares are older than the legal limit of 42 months, you must buy new ones. You should seriously consider the decisive cost-benefit advantages of upgrading to SOLAS-grade flares. (The Safety of Life at Sea convention is a division of the International Maritime Organization, the maritime world's chief safety body.) SOLAS-grade flares greatly exceed the Coast Guard's minimum requirements for brightness and burn time. A SOLAS hand-held flare is as much as seven times more effective than non-SOLAS hand-helds, while a SOLAS parachute flare may be 15 times more effective than a non-SOLAS meteor.
Yes, SOLAS flares do cost somewhat more-but so do the best PFDs, the best safety harnesses, and the best life rafts. As somebody once said about foul-weather gear, "You won't begrudge the added cost of the good stuff if you're forced to actually use the cheap stuff when you really need it." Anybody who has seen the startling difference between SOLAS and non-SOLAS flares at a safety seminar knows what I'm talking about. If you can't afford to carry a whole inventory of SOLAS flares, at least have one of each type. If you have never lit or fired off a flare, practice with an outdated one, say in the middle of the fireworks display on the fourth of July. (It's important to notify the Coast Guard before firing off a flare from your boat.)

If you know in advance that your storm sails and storm gear are ready to go, you'll be much more likely to survive a big blow.

Heavy Weather - Anticipate stormy weather by inspecting your reefing gear (replacing chafed lines), marking your halyards at reef levels, and practicing until you can tie in a reef in less than three minutes. Now you're ready for that sudden black squall. One common reefing problem is that the leech line pulls down but not aft, leaving the sail too full with a cupped leech. This line should be rigged so that it pulls equally down and aft.
If your plans involve going offshore, consider buying storm sails for your boat. Because a storm trysail and storm jib are extremely small, they usually are inexpensive and easy to stow. If heading out there for a couple of days at a time or more, think about the tactics you'll need to use in a storm. There are four storm tactics, and the one to use usually is the one that fits the prevailing sea conditions. "It's the seas, stupid!" should be the mantra of any crew when debating what to do in a gale. The next time you're caught out in rough weather, give as many of these as you can a try.

Heaving to is a simple matter, and it could save your boat or your life one day.
Lying Ahull-Take the sails off and let the boat drift. Because the boat may lie broadside to the sea, this is often counter-productive in breaking waves.

Heaving-to-As the accompanying illustration from The Annapolis Book of Seamanship shows, put the boat at about 60 degrees off the wind, back the jib (trim it to the windward side) and trim the reefed mainsail or trysail flat, adjusting the sheet or traveler until the helm balances. This is also a terrific way to pause in moderate conditions in order to take a break, because heaving-to slows the boat to a knot or two and eases the motion considerably. This approach may not be successful in breaking seas, however.
Bow Into the Seas-This is the first of two tactics that use "drag devices" to orient your bow (or stern if it is pointed) into the waves. The drag device here is a sea anchor-something that provides a lot of friction that's hung over the bow, and preferably a large parachute set at the end of a long line. Lying-to a sea anchor, the boat ideally has her sharpest end pointing into or almost into the approaching seas. (As Larry and Lin Pardey stress in their Storm Tactics Handbook, a sea anchor may also be set while heaving-to.)
Running Before-Running before a storm is an active tactic because the boat must be steered (unlike the other three, which are passive tactics). In high winds and big waves, the boat must be slowed by shortening sail and by deploying a drag device over the stern. This drag device may be warps (lengths of line) or a drogue (a small parachute or a line of small parachutes).

Orienting your boat's bow into the waves can be accomplished with a properly deployed drag device like the one being used above.

The last two tactics are much-debated and often confused, but a recently published book can help you clear up any confusion. In his Heavy Weather Tactics Using Sea Anchors and Drogues (published by Paradise Cay), Earl A. Hinz, a seasoned, thoughtful Pacific Ocean sailor, describes times when drag devices can be helpful if not crucial to surviving hard blows. Citing numerous examples (including reports from the landmark 1979 Fastnet and 1998 Sydney-Hobart storms), Hinz digs deep into the practice of storm management, the physics of waves, and various theories of drag device design. While the amount of detail in this compact book is less than in other sources on the subject (such as Victor Shane's Drag Device Data Book), Hinz's succinct presentation should make this a standard for anyone considering heading offshore.

As for which tactic and drag device to use, Hinz properly explains that everything depends on the boat and the prevailing sea conditions. He approves the use of sea anchors up to the point where plunging waves hurl large amounts of white water. When the seas are big and wild enough, he thinks the crew should try to run before a storm under control, towing a drogue. One question is not up for dispute: as Hinz writes, "In terms of dollars, space, and weight, a drag device is like a stash of gold-small and valuable." No less can be said of a Lifesling and a good flare, but only if the sailor knows how to use them.

Suggested Reading:

*The Value of Leadership Offshore* by John Rousmaniere

*Safety Essentials* by John Rousmaniere

*Maintaining Safety Gear* by Tom Wood


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

For those thinking about serious boat restoration - especially of a woodie - here is one of the best series you'll find by one of the coolest salts around...CharlieCobra. It has pictures and everything!

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/60890-oh-joy-resto-12-28-09-a.html
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/60845-oh-joy-resto-12-26-09-a.html
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/60592-oh-joy-resto-12-16-09-a-2.html
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/60271-oh-joy-resto-12-02-09-house-comes-off.html


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## johnshasteen (Aug 9, 2002)

Here's a bit of common sense advice (remember, common sense is not always common practice) if you are ever boarded by the Coast Guard.
These are good guys, serving their country, with a thankless job to do. have your ownership docs readily at hand (state registration or CG documentaiton), be sure you have your no trash overboard placards up and if you are inshore, be sure your overboard head valve is closed off.
Be polite to them, kid with them, offer them bottled water and thank them for their service to the country. 
The last time we were boarded in the ICW, west of Baffin Bay, I kidded one young warriors that Paloma was older that he was.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Wow - check out this crazy huge cruising boat spreadsheet by emagin!



emagin said:


> Please look at the mother of all cruising boat spreadsheet I am maintaining (see signature)
> __________________
> | Ranger 23 Sausalito, CA |
> | *Cruising Boat Stats* | Sailing Bookmarks |


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## soulofmine (Jan 24, 2010)

Thanks to all those contributing to this great thread. As a new sailor, this info is priceless. Keep it coming.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*Can I cross the Atlantic in a year - starting from scratch?*

Jeff comes through with another great response to an oft-asked question....



Jeff_H said:


> First of all, reading your post, and non-analytic approach to this, I would say that your chances of crossing the Atlantic in a year are well less than 50/50%.
> 
> If you had the time and money to methodically and rapidly progress through the necessary study and apprenticeship, with access to knowlegable friends who could tutor you in sailing and boat handling, and if your mindset was such that you were able to methodically outline a course of study, then you might increase your chances of being successful, but the fact that you have set an arbitrary deadline, and picked an arbitrary boat type, and have not researched even the most basic first steps in a courses of study before setting this goal, suggests that it is unlikely that you can accomplish a crossing at anything resembling a reasonable level of risk, at least not within a year's time.
> 
> ...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Hi Smackdaddy, i'm in the same boat as DavidPM, i did a competent crew course 20 years ago and now i have retired and have my house for sale and i would like to buy a Jeanneau Sun Ledgende 41and sail away and live aboard in South of France.
I have worked away from home all my life and being on my own is no problem, my question is ''what do i need to sail in Coastal Waters'' do i need any Qualifications to enter Foreign ports for supplies and shelter in the winter months


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Hey tank - welcome to SN dude. Remember, I ain't the salt around here. I'm a newb. I just help (with others) pull together some of the salts' best posts and dump them here so they're easier to find.

Read all the posts in this thread to get an idea of who the greats are. You'll probably find some of what you're looking for. Then, when you find a post that starts to answer your questions - click the







to the right of the poster's name to go to that thread for more. Then you can even post your question to that very salt.

I can categorically tell you that a Jenneau 41 in Southern France sounds pretty freakin' awesome.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Here's another great post by MaineSail regarding what you need to do when selling your boat. Great stuff.



Maine Sail said:


> The best money you can spend before selling would be on a full detail by or yourself a qualified marine detailer.
> 
> I would focus on the following items in the detail.
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Another killer post by MaineSail on polishing/waxing your boat. Man that dude rocks...



Maine Sail said:


> it seems it's that time of year again so I'll pre-post before the questions begin flying:
> 
> Buff Polish & Wax
> 
> ...


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

You can cross the North Atlantic with little or no navigation skills; Just keep the rising sun on your starboard bow and the setting sun on your starboard quarter and the North star over your left shoulder. Will not guarantee where you will land in Europe. But you will get there.
Hippies used to navigate from San Franciso to Hawaii by just following the contrails of the airliners flying to the Islands. Didn't say that is a good idea. What if it was overcast the entire trip?
Granted this is not the very smart way of doing this...
but sailing without modern instrutments is still being done by the polynesians and they have done this for centuries... their navigators have memorized over 200 stars and their seasonal path through the heavens. Along with the swells and waves of the Pacific Ocean, the land birds that feed at sea and they find small islands all the time.


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

Boasun said:


> Hippies used to navigate from San Franciso to Hawaii by just following the contrails of the airliners flying to the Islands. Didn't say that is a good idea. *What if it was overcast the entire trip? *


You could always use your sextant.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

Omatako said:


> You could always use your sextant.


Yes!! with the Cloud Splitter attachment.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Here's a GREAT response to the question of how to maintain your speed through a tack. From a true salt and racer...WHL.

The question:


Kenif said:


> Guys,
> 
> I am fairly new to sailing and have been fortunate to land a seat on Rusalka i a Phantom 32 class yacht designed and built by Nick Shein in Sydney in 1988.
> 
> ...


The gold:


wunhunglo said:


> Some great posts. I tend to do as Sailormon6 and JPollard do.
> 
> I don't know the boat the OP is sailing, but light vs heavier displacement boats will alter the general guidelines in terms of speed into the tack, through the tack and how long it takes to power up again. Practice is the key; use a stop watch, watch the boat speed, but also watch the shape of the stern wake. You want to try and achieve a smooth arc...no "S" bends or sharp 90 degrees in the wake.
> 
> ...


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

some smaller, lighter racers (at least those with rounded chines) can be roll-tacked in light air, just like a dinghy. the crew delays the "climb" to the new windward rail until the tack is almost complete, over-heeling the boat on the "new" tack in the process, then scramble "up" to help flatten the heel out. this "squirts" the boat forward by accellerating the airflow over the sails as the boat is "unheeled" on both the old and new tacks, and minimizes the time the main is luffing.

But you have to get the jib over quickly, so this doesn't work well with overlapping jibs. But the light boats tend to have higher-aspect short-foot jibs anyway.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

This was a great response to a dude that asked "what a newbie needs to know in one page"...



stephenbarns said:


> Ok I will oblige you. First look in your local classifieds , craigslist, sailboat trader , to find a boat in your price range. call them up and tell them that you want to look at it. If it looks ok and you think that it is cool tell the seller that you like the boat, but in this buyers market you can't give a nickel over $650 less than the asking price. make sure that he shows you how to raise the sails and all of that type of stuff. On your way home buy a learn to sail book. If possible schedule a ASA basic sailing course , if not just go out on a decently windy day with one of your buddies and break a few things on your new boat, don't be a wimp you will figure it out. This is also the time that you will learn that the previous owner maybe got his $650 out of you. ABOVE ALL ELSE do not try to raise the sails without making sure that the sail is somehow connected to the halyard or you will have to find a new sailing buddy after the 2 of you have to step the mast. Make sure that your anchor rode (rope) is longer than 50 ft or you will just drag around while you are trying to relax. After each sail log on to the sailnet forum and tell us your troubles and someone that has been doing this since they were born will explain exactly how to correct your problem, unfortunatly you will not understand a word that he is saying. No you don't need a liscense to sail if you own the boat, yes you need a drivers liscense to pull one, a marina costs from $50-$300 in avg assuming first timers are not buying a 50 footer. Make sure that you have have all of your lights on and good anchoring overnight ,n case of an emergency press the red button.


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## ROSA (Oct 22, 2009)

A heavier yacht typically provides more crew comfort. Check out the comfort index.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

Your string of post is coming together nicely Smack.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Thanks Charlie. I hope newbs get some use out of it. Having so many great posts from knowledgeable dudes in one place makes it a lot easier to find what you're looking for.

It's too easy for this great knowledge to get buried. And who wants to dig to hell and back for a few good answers?

Thanks for the answers salts. Keep 'em coming.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I just have to add this one for posterity. From the inimitable salt, Surfesq:



Surfesq said:


> The Article prompted me to consider what items one must absolutely include in a checklist for offshore sailing. I thought I would start a List and see what our Club could add. In other words, let's create the ultimate Offshore Safety Checklist:
> 
> 1. Rigging checked by rigging specialist
> 2. Radio Safety Check
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

This is a freakin' classic from sailpony. And IT WAS HIS VERY FIRST POST!

Dude rocks.



sailpony said:


> Chicks won't stay with you.
> There's no place to take a crap, or it's always a real pain to deal with (the head will leak, smell, squeal, clog, squirt, and finally crack off it's mount one romantic evening when when your 1st and only date's been swayed for a stay-over. Your holding tank will have already been choked full as the head breaks, and you've unknowingly managed to improperly set the Y valve, so the over-pressurized system is about to blow the crap out of everything). There's nowhere to take a real shower, let alone a hot one, because the bottom of your hot water heater (all 6 gallons of it) will have long since rusted away and the element is fried anyway.
> Other reasons not to liveaboard are mold (a special kind of mold unique to your boat and you, a mold that will find it's way into the cheap plastic cups left aboard with little anchor decals and labels like 'captain' and '1st mate' on their faded blue or red finish. You will drink this mold and it will grow in you, causing odd rashes and an awful cough, especially if you smoke).
> Still more reasons to avoid the small sailboat life are; damp clothes, $70 swollen history books with stained pages that you can never sell back to the cutthroat college book store, chainplate leaks that drain into your bling shoes, jerking dock lines will moan and keep you awake like a snoring fat wife, and a most inadequate desk (they like to call it a chart table) where everything on it's surface must be scrapped off in order to open it's lid.
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

You've seen the question a million times...and the answer is apparently not 42...but 46.



Jeff_H said:


> For a while it seemed like every other week, someone would come on SailNet asking what is the perfect boat for a circumnavigation in some price range. No matter what the price range there were always all kinds of differing opinions. One of the most commonly requested price ranges was around $100K. This morning I saw this listing for a 1981 Kelly Peterson 46. While I have not seen the boat, and have no idea what shape she is really in, and based on your objectives, you might find her choice of gear a debatable, I thought I would post this link below to her listing in case there is someone thinking to themselves "What would the perfect $100K circumnavigator look like?" (or more precisely what does Jeff_H think is the near perfect $100K circumnavigator look like?) (and for the record I almost never refer to myself in the third person but I could not think of another way to say that and, no, I have no connection to this boat or seller)
> 
> 1981 Formosa Peterson 46 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
> 
> Jeff


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

I probably should have been clearer in my earlier post. To start with, I think that a 46 footer is a very big boat for a couple. I personally think that for a long distance cruiser about 10-11,000 lbs per person is a reasonable maximum displacement. My personal preference is even less than that. I should also note, that the original displacement shown for KP-46's was more like 26,000 lbs. Even at the more typically quoted 30,700 lbs displacement, with a waterline length approaching 40 feet that gives the KP-46 an L/D in the 170-220 range which is not all that bad for an offshore capable cruiser (especially if you compare it to something silly like a Hardin 45 which has a 32,000 lb displacement on a 32 foot waterline and so a D/L of 426 )

But more to the point, I also am a firm believer that there are a lot of 'right' solutions to most sailing questions. The boat in question answers the question: _"What boat should I buy if I have roughly $100,000 to spend on a boat to take my family around the world? I am looking for a design that has a proven record, solid construction and which will offer a balance mix of good performance, decent seakeeping and motion comfort, and which can be found in a well maintained and upgraded condition within my price range. I am not a fan of lighter displacement craft." _

This is not the boat that I would probably buy for myself. If those were my goals, wanted a boat of that general size and I had a bigger budget, I would probably look at something like a J-44 or Farr 44.

But when I think of the folks who come here and ask about moderate to heavy displacement circumnavigators, I would suggest that this would be a very good candidate. What also distinguishes this particular boat is that someone has put a lot of money and care into making the necessary upgrades, long term maintenance and alterations that it takes to make this particular boat pretty ideal for this kind of thing.

And as Andrew (tdw) points out, I qualified this by saying within this price range. As I look at this subject, I think there are heavier displacement type designs in all price ranges that make sense as potential circumnavigators. For example at less than $75K I would normally default to a Tayana 37 and at over $200K I would normally default to the Valiant 40.

Personally, since I have no interest in doing a circumnavigation, none of these boats would make sense for my own use.

Jeff
__________________


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

I've been sailing all me bloomin'life.... Me mother was a mermaid and me father was King Neptune, I was born on the crest of awave and rocked in the cradle of the deep, seaweed and barnacles are me cloths, every hair in me head is hemp and when it spits... I spits tar I'm hard I is I am I are. (50 years sailing and 35 in the Navy)

Basic advice: 
If you're a couple with a boat, rig rig for singlehandling, because that's what you're doing much of the time when your other is below, sleeping etc. 

I've spent lotsa' time at sea on ships. Most people have no idea how bad it can get out there, like a washing machine. If you're planning ocean voyaging the key is routing yuor way out of the weather. There's a lot of info out there on the latitudes to sail and the time windows to safely go in. Lee Chesnau's courses are a must. Seven Seas Sailing Assn is a good source of tribal knowledge of distance cruising.

Always clip on. Wear a lifevest. Here in the Pacific Northwest if you fall overboard, hypothermia has a 50/50 chance of getting get you before your sailboat boat will get back and get you onboard. At sea the statistics on rescue are abysmal.

The biggest reason I've seen for disasters at sea is being having to be on a schedule. Having to get underway to back home when the weather was detoritating or the boat equipment wasn't right, continuning on when the skipper/crew is exhausted. Stay in port. Get the boat the next weekend, pull in.

Good seamanship in my book is not skill in getting out of tight situations. Rather it's planning and taking action to avoid those situations in the first place.

No matter how new to sailing almost everyone can tell when something's wromg. Advise your crew to let you know if they see something that's not right to them... it probablly isn't. Invariably in messed up situations someone knwe about it beforehand but was too shy to mention it, or the skipper wasn't the type to take advice.


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## sealover (Jun 27, 2009)

"A ship is called a 'she' because there is always a great deal of bustle around her; there is usually a gang of men about; she has a waist and stays; it is not the initial expense that breaks you, it is the upkeep; it takes an experienced man to handle her correctly; and, without a man at the helm, she is uncontrollable. She shows her topsides, hides her bottom and, when coming into port, always heads for the buoys." 

From the Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea, quoted as appearing on a tea towel sold by the Royal National Lifeboat Institution.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

A GREAT write up by Still to the perennial questions regarding various production boats and their reps...



Stillraining said:


> Probably a true story...to some extent...More then likely induced when Ted Left the company.
> 
> He came back to straighten those wrongs out but by then the Luxury Tax of the Eighties took its toll on the whole industry and he could never pull Irwin's image out of the toilet before the inevitable.
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

For those people that dream of living aboard a sailboat because it's "cheap" - here's a very real perspective...



bljones said:


> Here's a reality check- people live aboard for ONLY one of two reasons:
> 1. they can afford to, or
> 2. they can't afford to live anywhere else.
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

This one isn't from a salt but a newb. However, it's a great illustration of the answer salts always give to the age-old question of "How do I get started sailing?"



5hortBu5 said:


> Hi folks!
> 
> I can count the times I've been sailing on two fingers, but I'm entirely smitten with sailpower.
> 
> ...


To this...



5hortBu5 said:


> Thanks so much for the advice, everyone. I stopped by the local club on the Sunday before last, and chatted some folks up during the 420 round robin they were holding. I got the scoop on the Wednesday races they hold, and folks told me that was the best time to find an empty spot on a boat.
> 
> On Wednesdays, they race Lasers, Mariners, J22s and there's an open class for all other private boats. Long story short: I got invited by an exceptionally friendly skipper to crew on his Oday 322, and had a blast manning the jib sheets. I'm definitely going back whenever I can, and soaking up some good stuff.
> 
> Oh, and I only whacked my skull on the boom twice :laugher


That's how you do it. Great job 5hort!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Wanna find a cheap boat and go sailing? Check this out...

(The reading is just as hard as the work Mav did)



Maverick1958 said:


> Ever have one of those great ideas gone wrong? Here is one of those stories. About a year ago I purchased my 1st boat, a Helsen 22 for $800 with a trailer. I figured a couple of hundred dollars and an couple of weekends and I would be sailing! On the way home with my new prize the right axle on the trailer collapsed! No damage to anything other than my pride. My buddy came out with his wrecker and we got the boat home. After careful inspection, something I should have done the first time it was decided the trailer was a pile of scrap. Undaunted I proceeded to built my first trailer. It turned out great, maybe a little too great as I blame everything else that has happend on the trailer. After the trailer was finished (over built) we put the boat on it and stood back to admire the work and the once beautiful boat. What a pretty trailer! Anyone see where this is going yet? DANGER YOUNG WILL ROBINSON! The boat looked like crap sitting on the new trailer! So I decided that I would simply clean her up and polish the hull and deck. I fell further into her trap! Yes she was white again but not so shinny, in fact EVERY imperfection in the hull had been magnified and worse yet there were yellow wax marks all over the boat. It seems if there is a scratch in the hull (some up to a 1/16") they hold wax better than epoxy. Who would have thought it. To add insult to injury I found every spot on the hull and deck that needed repaired and there were plenty to go around. Did I mention that I am new to boating and did not know ANYTHING? Here comes the perpetual and unsolicited advice given by well meaning friends. "Stop worrying about it and just go sailing". This from a guy who's boat has been rotting on the hard for three years. Another friend was just standing there with an evil grin (real sailor). He added his two cents worth (bastard just couldn't keep his mouth shut) and I quote "Maverick you know you will NEVER be satisfied until the boat looks new! The hook was set! I went home with my tail between my legs and started doing the unthinkable! I picked up a West Marine catalog and started looking. I made a list (long) of all the things I needed (really?) and then tallied up the total. It took my wife, the Admiral in training an hour to get me out of the bath room, dry heaves. I should have got a new boat. Boats are real expensive, but not quite as expensive as West Marine. Spencer you remember Spencer the bastard sailor? Well he came over to talk about the boat. He started to look everything over and told me what was salvageable like the trailer and the hull. It seems the mast, tiller handle, rudder, and something else was OK but everything else was scrap or missing. At this point Spencer took pity on me. I don't know if it was the tears or him having to restrain me and the shotgun, what ever the case I didn't shoot the boat. It was at that point I realized I had the right to cut my losses and quit, I just didn't have the ability! So with grim determination I started to strip the boat. I removed all the teak, wiring, motor mount, table, sink and counter, port-a-podie, wenches, cleats, hand rails ect. Is this what they are talking about when the say bare boating? Remember the guy who's boat is rotting on the hard? DON'T TAKE HIS ADVICE! When I removed the sink and partical board counter in particals I found that the thru hull fitting for the sink was not connected to anything and was open to the great outdoors. It kind of gave me a sinking feeling. It was now time to tackle the bad places in the hull and deck. I filled all the holes, scratches, dings, and dents. It was somewhere during this process I was thinking about the original owners. Who hangs their anchor over the side and allows it to rake, ding, scratch and otherwise attack the hull for years on end? Then there was the rub rail or in their case the crash rail it had to go too. I would have called them stupid, however I was the one who bought the boat, but I digress. After a few weekends of getting the hull and deck just right I stepped back to admire my boat. Holy crap was she ugly! She was now white (gel coat), tan(ish) (fiberglass), pinkish/red (body putty), and not a drop of yellow (old wax), but she was plenty smooth! Paint time! This part should have been easy, but the Admiral (no longer in training) told me she didn't want it white, blue, red, or any mixture of the afore mentioned colors! It was like shopping for clothes or arranging furniture! We (she) settled for a dark green for the hull and a cream/tan for the deck. So it was off to West Marine to buy paint. Don't get me wrong West Marine is a fine store with great products and a helpful staff. Its just the little thing that get under my skin like you don't just buy some paint. There is primer, are you going to spray or roll it, not to mention the the little things like stir sticks, rollers, handles, paint trays, more (deleted explicative) sand paper and such. I masked off the toe rail and anything else I could find and took out my paint tray, roller handle, gloves (that didn't fit), and primer and went to work. By the end of the day all it needed was the number PT-109 on the side of the now battle ship gray boat. Next came the sanding. Why was the paint so rough I had the hull super smooth when I started. Remember the yellow wax? It was brought to my attention that sanding alone will not remove the wax, you need to use a striping agent. This is handy advice if you knew about it in advance. However reams of sand paper will remove primer. I can now say with some authority that I know the hull of this boat better than the people who built it. So with an almost fanatical determination I started painting again. West Marine didn't tell me that the primer was not necessary if the gel coat was properly prepared. Another lesson learned at my expense. So re taped ect. I opened the green paint man it was pretty stuff. I loaded the paint gun my neighbor loaned me and started on the transom. It was laying on like glass my heart soared! As I continued around the port side I would look back from time to time to admire the work. Even with a couple of imperfections (damn bugs) she was looking great! I continued down the starboard side with a song in my heart back to the transom. I was done! As I stepped around the transom to admire my work true horror set in. What was once smooth as glass and glossy was now full of fish eyes and had the texture of stucco. There were runs, sags, and things that don't even have a name wrong with the paint. As I was buying the store out of paint and other implements of destruction they neglected to mention anything about thinner, AKA 333 brushing liquid. Then there were my mistakes little things like painting outside in the heat of the day, putting the paint on too thick not tacking before painting and other thing I learned the hard way. I would be amiss not to mention Wagner paint guns, a fine product for painting oh I don't know a fence maybe because it damn sure isn't a boat!!! Time to plug Interlux Paint. No doubt this stuff will last for years. I had to wait a week for it to dry enough to start sanding it smooth again. All I can say about this stuff is, it is hard when dry. I don't mean like hard like automotive paint I am talking like diamond hard. Anyway about a shopping cart of sand paper later the hull was once again smooth. Time to go back to West Marine and their knowledgeable staff for more paint and THINNER! Resupplied with fresh paint and THINNER it was time to paint again. This time I armed myself with a little knowledge (very little as it turned out) off the Internet. I studied painting boats using the roller and tip method. It looked easy enough, well the weekend came and it was painting time. This actually goes fairly fast and works well. The boat was greenish and still smooth except for the occasional bug. To do this type of painting right expect to put on three and in my case four coats of paint to get the desired effect. Remember that smooth hull, well let me say this about that. It was not smooth enough. Glossy dark green paint shows you every spot you thought you had perfect. Never the less the hull looks good. The following weekend came and it was time to do the deck. Bristol beige is the color and the two go together well. I guess the Admiral was right, something she doesn't hesitate to remind me of. Did I mention we have a new puppy named Swabby, he ranks higher than me. With most of the costly mistakes out of the way the boat is really starting to come together. The Admiral is pleased. The refinished teak looks great and she is getting very close to being finish (I think). New cushions, sink and counter, new table and port-a-podie now grace the inside. A new bronze thru hull fitting with a valve has been installed along with a new rub rail and the old gal is now drawing complements. Spencer brought me a book over about rope work and knots and she is now adorned with fancy work all over the place. The wiring is redone along with everything else but the rigging and sails. I even put a manual bilge pump in which turned out to be handy. I forgot to close the boat up during a rather heavy thunder storm and found the bilge and salon full of water. Having actually learned a couple of thing while working on this boat I used some so called ingenuity when installing the pump. Not wanting more thru hull fittings I thought why not dump the bilge into the cockpit because it is self bailing anyway. I can put the 1 1/2" thru hull fitting into the **** pit and bingo no holes in the hull. I recommend this as it works well with one exception/modification make sure your scupper can pass enough volume. As I sat in the boat pumping the bilge pump quite happy with the speed it was evacuating the water I noticed my butt was getting wet. As it turned out the scupper could not keep up with the volume of water I was pumping and the cockpit filled like a bath tub up to the point where it was coming back in thru the lazerett openings and pouring back into the boat. Simple enough to fix, but somewhat embarrassing. As the saga of my boat refit/rebuild is quickly drawing to a close I want to leave you with a few thoughts.
> 
> * $800 boats are a teachable moment!
> * Never build a new trailer
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Learning to sail? Check this out...



ThrillerDillerSchwill said:


> Is it easy to learn how to sail on your own? You know, that's a very interesting question. I am a newbie who is in the process of learning how to sail, and it is taking me a while, and the reason is because I am hardly ever at my boat. The boat was priced low, it came with no trailer, and the marina cost was very low, and so, this is why I have a sailboat an hour and a half away from me. The previous owner of my boat gave me three lessons, but he was not really much of a sailor himself, and the lessons were about two or three weeks apart, and they were very informal lessons and not very comprehensive. The famous writer Jack London said that sailors are born. And after pondering that over for a long while, even when considering my difficulty in learning, I really think that he was full of crap. If you start out at the age of 12 with a dinghy and gradually work yourself up to bigger boats, I would suppose after 20 years of constant sailing, one would probably feel that sailing was something that came natural. I suppose anyone with that kind of experience would feel that way, yet that doesn't take away the fact that Jack London was stupid for writing such a thing. But to answer the question, to just start out on a first sailboat -- a sailboat that is a little more complex than a sailing dinghy --for a grown adult that is way past his or her college years, without the proper instruction or proper knowledge on how all of the parts on your boat functions and how they are rigged and tied off while sailing and while not sailing, learning how to sail is indeed difficult. If you are a middle aged person who is trying to teach yourself sailing and don't have a whole lot of time to spend with your boat, then learning on your own is the hard way, and it is also a very dangerous thing to do. I know, I just gave myself a very good lesson in sailing, but I also came close to damaging the sailboat and myself in the process. I wouldn't recommend learning the hard way to anyone. It takes time to learn. And a good sailor will tell you that you don't stop learning how to sail. It is a continuous process. But to reach the point that you feel comfortable with taking a small sailboat out on your own, unless you are young and have lots of time on your hands to learn a little at a time, a significant amount of knowledge needs to be acquired. Sailing is not easy; however, once you learn it and feel comfortable with it, you then tell people that it is. That is what I have observed. The best thing for a new sailor to do is to find an experienced sailor -- who is not a genuine ******** -- who has the same model of boat that you have and ask that person if he or she would go over every single part of the boat with you, explain what it is meant for, how it works, and how it is rigged -- when sailing and when docked or moored. There are all kinds of sailboats with all kinds of rigging and sailors who have all kinds of agendas out there, and so just going to one source to learn everything you need to know on the internet or even in a book (unless it is a very comprehensive owner's manual) is almost impossible. Without any doubt in my mind, the main goal for every new sailor who wants to learn how to sail a 20ft sailboat -- give or take four feet -- should be to know every part on the sailboat and how every everything is rigged and secured on the sailboat -- when sailing and when not sailing -- right down to the smallest of fittings, and once you have done that, then you're on your way. Unless you are an engineer type of person who can figure out things on your own, you should never stop asking questions and you should never stop learning.


Great stuff.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

This is one of the coolest video blogs I've seen...from our very own Stillraining.

He makes this stuff look way too easy...



Stillraining said:


> Well the mast went back in the boat yesterday as I played rigger, and the yard is nearing completion of all their to do items, so it is now my turn to start putting the interior back together.
> 
> Im not going to spend a ton of time doing this at this point but will work on it as time permits, this project has taken a year to long as it is, and Im past ready to go sailing.
> 
> ...





Stillraining said:


> The yard finally got the engine enclosure buttoned up enough for me to install the galley sole.
> 
> So here it is....
> 
> ...


CharlieC - you need to do some of this stuff!


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## oceanscapt (Aug 1, 2009)

SAFETY - Safety should be #1 on your list. That means making sure the vessel is ready for the voyage, proper and sufficient safety gear are aboard and the crew know where they are and how to use them, basic rules about being on a moving surface (such as one hand for the boat at all times), and what is allowed and what is not. Safety means making sure the running rigging is in good shape, that jack lines are set and used, that the crew wears PFDs/harnesses under certain circumstances, and that everyone knows what their job is.

Practice/drills - I can't overstate this enough. Doing the wrong thing, or in the wrong order, or with the wrong tool, or taking too long will shorten your time aboard. You need to know how to close sea cocks, how to shorten sail, heave to, put out a fire, and be successful at a man overboard drill before the actual event happens. The more often you do these, the faster you'll become, the fewer mistakes you'll make, and the more confident you'll be. We do monthly tests on a variety of emergencies, discuss problems and recommendations, and try to do a better job the next time. Many of us professional mariners are constantly saying 'What can possibly go wrong?" to ourselves and think about what we'd do. And you thought we were praying or muttering under our breath. :laugher

Share the wealth - Show others how you do what you do and explain why. They may not be as good at it as you are but it's probably because no one let them practice it with little pressure and lots of constructive suggestions. Too many Captains/Mates think that by showing the crew how to do things the right way they lose control. In fact, the opposite generally happens.

If you think about it - If you think it's time to reef/heave to/return to shore, it's probably too late. You need to know when your vessel's telling you enough is enough and be smart enough to heed the advise.

Keep Learning - You can learn the basics of sailing in a few hours but mastery will take you the rest of your life. Even seasoned, professional mariners are constantly taking classes, doing training, and refining and learning new skills. Take sailing classes and even offer your vessel as a training boat. You'll learn a lot more by being on board your boat rather than somebody elses. Don't be afraid to ask for clarification. Sail with sailors who show good sail trim techniques. Do the weekly beer can races on a variety of vessels to see how other captains and crew trim their vessel.

Planning - Every good voyage starts with a plan. The more details you get worked out before you leave the dock/anchorage/condo the better the chances of a pleasant time. Are your charts up to date? Is the vessel ready for the trip? Are you ready for the trip? Is the weather cooperating (at least for the first few days)? Do you have a list of bailout/decision points and are you willing to head for safe harbor? Can you change plans graciously?

Prudence - There will be times when leaving the anchorage/dock isn't the best plan. Can you make that decision even if it means significantly altering your trip? There are times when after trying to set the hook for the tenth time and you're still not satisfied, are you willing to do it again or go to the dock or find another anchorage? Are you willing to put down 2 anchors because the wind might pipe up?

Can your crew run the boat - You may be the Captain, but there will come a time when you're not going to be able to be in charge. Can your crew successfully and safely run the boat?

Praise in public, punish in private -

Communicate - Good Captains/Mates communicate continuously with crew, offering suggestions, gently correcting mistakes, and allow a two way line of communication to flow. Talking in a calm voice when things get tense is the mark of superb crew communications (just watch those big boats come to the dock - they talk quietly, no one runs, no one points, and in the worst conditions the boat gently slides into position).

Make the other person look good - I got this one from Lin and Larry Pardey and it says a lot.

Sail a well prepared vessel - That means keeping up on maintenance, inspections, and chafe. Look in bilges on a regular basis, do bow to stern walkarounds several times a day, keep up to speed on weather conditions, and keep the crew happy.

Set a good example - The old 'do as I do, not as I say' was never more important than cruising on a small moving vessel. "Do unto others...."


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Wow - I just saw the post above. Great stuff! Thanks Cap!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

And here's another great post by a young dude who's doing what everyone dreams about - buying and living on a boat. He'll be a great resource for newbs wondering about the whole thing...



rmeador said:


> Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but this is a great thread. I'm 25, about to turn 26, and I just bought my first boat, a Gulfstar 37. I'll be living aboard starting next month.
> 
> I think I went about this whole adventure backwards from most people. I started dreaming about megayachts, saying "someday I'll have one of those". Then I realized, if I have a multi-million dollar megayacht, why have a house? Just live on it. My daydreams led to me to real-life used boat prices, and I discovered powerboats as big as a house for under a million dollars... I thought "that's achievable in the not too distant future!" Then I dug deeper... I found nice boats plenty large enough to live on for under $100k. I was already considering buying a house for more than that. At this point I started seriously considering living on a boat _now_, instead of it being a dream for the future. Then I saw the price of fuel. Instantly, I switched to looking at sail boats. Then I got a reality check in the difference between what a bank will loan you for a house vs a boat, and started downsizing my plans. Then I took a sailing class -- my first trip aboard a sailboat ever -- and I instantly fell in love with sailing, as I suspected I would. Then I bought a boat. Here I am, awaiting closing on my first boat.
> 
> ...


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

Gorgeous work by stillrainning above, simply stunning. I love that Madrona grain but wouldn't use it anywhere but the sole because of rot issues. That shouldn't be an issue with as much epoxy as he put on it and the fact it's in the cabin and easy to re-coat when needed.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Charlie - if you guys get the chance, you really should video some of your work. It would be great to see you guys doing what you do.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

I don't have the video equipment for that. Someday maybe...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

No worries. Just when you can. It would be great to see the quality of your work and how you guys do it.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

*Emergency procedures when sinking*

This is a great conversation among salts regarding what one should do if they are taking on water.

*Emergency procedures when sinking.*

Here are a couple of the nuggets:



BubbleheadMd said:


> I'm in agreement with the grounding strategies, but let's talk for a moment as if grounding were not an option-
> 
> 1. If you haven't already, buy a package of wooden bungs and tie the appropriate size bung to each thru-hull with a length of twine. That way, the appropriate damage control item is already in place if a seacock or thru-hull fails.
> 
> ...





JohnRPollard said:


> It's a good question and one that all sailors should give some thought to - even coastal sailors like the O.P. There are lots of good suggestions here, too.
> 
> However, the suggestion to ground the boat or steer the boat toward land is debatable. Unless the area where you plan to ground the boat is soft and immediately adjacent, I would not attempt either.
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I've always been impressed with the general knowledge. advice, and jokes of DeniseO30. Keep an eye out for her posts.

She definitely rates...



deniseO30 said:


> OK guys.. stay with me! I'll send the consultation bill to .....
> 
> For those that know how to solder or braze, know how to use refrigerants. layout and wire controls. It's easy to take a window unit,separate all the components
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

You want some salt? Below is a thread that I think is one of the best representations of what SN is all about...great sailors, great/kind people, and some of the best insight you can possibly get about sailing.

The inimitable salt, billyruffin, started off the thread on the Rule62 disaster - and after a respectful period of time, those great sailors started talking about the issues.

It doesn't get better than this:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/69910-sinking-rule-62-a.html


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

[Irony alert.]

Wow, I ran across this great thread on another forum regarding boat inspections! The member appears to have been banned from that forum...but it's still great info:

Boat Inspection Trip Tips - Boating, Sailing and Cruising Forum: For Cruisers - BY Cruisers


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes, that thread/post is also available on four other sailing forums, including *SAILNET*. I'd point out that while I may be banned at StuffIminto, the reasons for my banning had more to do with the site administrator being a lying sack of sh!t and violating his own terms of service than anything else. For the full story and in terms of full disclosure, you should have also posted links to what really happened, as you can read *HERE*, *HERE* and *HERE*.

I also requested all of my posts and my account be deleted from Stuffiminto, but apparently those wishes weren't honored, since a lot of Stuffers good content was posted by now-banned sailors, including myself, Giulietta, and a couple of dozen other sailnet and anything-sailing members.

As usual, you're stirring up sh!t without being honest or even-handed about it... you're basically a [email protected]



smackdaddy said:


> [Irony alert.]
> 
> Wow, I ran across this great thread on another forum regarding boat inspections! The member appears to have been banned from that forum...but it's still great info:
> 
> Boat Inspection Trip Tips - Boating, Sailing and Cruising Forum: For Cruisers - BY Cruisers


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

sailingdog said:


> Yes, that thread/post is also available on four other sailing forums, including *SAILNET*. I'd point out that while I may be banned at StuffIminto, the reasons for my banning had more to do with the site administrator being a lying sack of sh!t and violating his own terms of service than anything else. For the full story and in terms of full disclosure, you should have also posted links to what really happened, as you can read *HERE*, *HERE* and *HERE*.
> 
> I also requested all of my posts and my account be deleted from Stuffiminto, but apparently those wishes weren't honored, since a lot of Stuffers good content was posted by now-banned sailors, including myself, Giulietta, and a couple of dozen other sailnet and anything-sailing members.
> 
> As usual, you're stirring up sh!t without being honest or even-handed about it... you're basically a [email protected]


Oh c'mon. You have to admit it was kind of funny.

Anyway, it is great info. I'm going to use it on my next purchase. Seriously.

As a matter of fact, I've already purchased my Phenolic Resin Hammer and have been practicing at "Chuck E Cheese":










Dog, I love ya dude. Just goofin' with you. And we all get banned at some point. So don't sweat it.

Anyway I'm honored that you keep such a sharp eye on my Salt's thread. It does have some of the best sailing info on the web.

(PS - Your post actually came up in a Google search I was doing: "boat inspection tips". I had no idea it was over there.)


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

LOL the Dog is how I found Sailnet


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

From the Rule 62 thread I mentioned above. btrayfors gave a great summary of what you need to do for off-shoring...



btrayfors said:


> On a moderately long offshore passage -- 10 days or so for the Carib 1500 -- it's a very good idea to PLAN for seasickness and fatigue, as well as breakdowns and bad weather.
> 
> 1. No 10-day *weather forecast* is reliable.
> 
> ...


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

Good post steal Smack fits exellently here ..... got to agree seasickness has got to be the bane of sailing .


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

I only steal the best. Saves us all from having to dig to hell and back to find some of the best sailing answers on the web.


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## St Anna (Mar 15, 2003)

smackdaddy said:


> I only steal the best. Saves us all from having to dig to hell and back to find some of the best sailing answers on the web.


Hiya SFC.

I dont think there are 'answers'. Nothing beats years [naut miles]under the belt and you make a decision as you see it.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

The Rule 62 thread just keeps cranking out the jewels. This one from Jeff? Wow.



Jeff_H said:


> Wearing a different hat than as a SailNet member, I would also like to touch on the content of this discussion a little. As we sit here thinking about this tragedy it may seem easy to assign fault. Those with experience with Atlantic Inlets understand the full implication of an onshore breeze and an outgoing current. For them it is easy in the abstract to point fingers at the skipper and say he should have known better.
> 
> He probably should have, he even may have. But not being aboard, and not knowing the circumstances, and feeling in my heart that terrible self-inflicted sense of loss, pain, and guilt that I can only imagine that the skipper must feel having had one crew lost and several nearly lost, I am not comfortable being pointedly critical of the man in a public forum such as this.
> 
> ...


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

You want to talk about salts? Check out these guys: Lin and Larry Pardy...who just posed in the Heavy Weather Sailing thread...



Lin and Larry said:


> Interesting discussion. A few comments - yes we have heard first hand reports of spade rudders damaged while being held stern to the seas by drag devises of various kinds. But in each case, when we asked, the owners stated they did not have rudder stops. In fact that was what lead us to add a chapter on rudder stops when we updated our Storm Tactics book.
> 
> We have a strong preference for using a para-anchor from the bow. But we know of a few cases where experienced sailors said their boat laid more comfortably with the para-anchor or a series drogue lead from the stern quarter, one in a very intense storm off the Straits of Magellan (We know it was intense because we were only 90 miles away from this crew - also hove to.) Interestingly, in each of these cases the boats did not have spade rudders.
> 
> ...


The real deal.


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

Exellent post from Jeff !!

I have been waiting for someone to state something like this there, And it's EASY to criticize on the net ....

You put up Great threads Smack , I personally have taken away many lessons from them .... The RULE 62 thread has many seasoned sailors all over it BUT as said it's EASY to criticize on the net.

Keep up the good work Smack


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

You've just bought a boat, have no experience, and no motor, and wonder if it's safe to sail down the coast? Great question from a newb:



scgilligan said:


> I know it is stupid, but HOW stupid for an inexperienced sailor to sail a boat down the coast in view of land? There is a boat I'd like to buy in Virginia Beach and take it down the coast to Charleston, SC. How long would it take to do that single-handed? Could it be done in a few weekends, docking it along the way during the work week..?
> Only other option would be to de-mast and trailer it down, but there is not a trailer with it and I wonder about the costs, etc. involved with doing it that way..I'd really like to sail it, but don't want to die either.
> Let me know your thoughts and the biggest challenges to doing this. Thanks.
> 
> By the way, the boat does not have an engine at all..totally sail driven at the moment.


...and great answer from another SN salt, Bene505...



Bene505 said:


> If it were me, and given that I've had a professional survey done, I'd do the following:
> 
> 1) Wait until spring, like you said. That will make it a lot more enjoyable and I think the weather is more predictable.
> 
> ...


Does this place rock or what?


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## HDChopper (Oct 17, 2010)

Sailnet kicks butt  , there is no higher honor IMHO than sharing what is in one's head without wanting cash for it !

The willingness of the exp sailers here to share knowledge is unbelieveable ...
Saveing life & limb a few times without dout (well at least mine :laugher )

Giving unselfishly I am shure add to ones life  

Rock On Sailnet !


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## w1651 (May 2, 2010)

It is a great feeling knowing as a newb I can ask anything no matter how small and it will get a answer. We joke and poke a lot on here but it all comes down to the love of sailing on the ocean blue.

The only thing Bene505 didn't do for scgilligan was sail the boat to S Carolina for him. And if he had asked Bene505 he might have caught a flight or a bus the day before he planned to start his trip and met him at the dock. Of course it would have meant he could be out on the water sailing too...


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## sailjunkie (Nov 4, 2009)

SN is one of my favourite places. Lots of good topics and ideas.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

w1651 said:


> It is a great feeling knowing as a newb I can ask anything no matter how small and it will get a answer. We joke and poke a lot on here but it all comes down to the love of sailing on the ocean blue.
> 
> The only thing Bene505 didn't do for scgilligan was sail the boat to S Carolina for him. And if he had asked Bene505 he might have caught a flight or a bus the day before he planned to start his trip and met him at the dock. Of course it would have meant he could be out on the water sailing too...


+1. Well done Bene...as usual. Great guy with whom I've had the pleasure of drinking tequila....lots of it.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Why do I love this forum? Simple - very, very good sailors will teach you all kinds of cool stuff.

THE ISSUE IS *you have to not be afraid of looking stupid*. Take me for example, I'm technically a very crappy sailor...but I'm perfectly willing to share that crappiness with the world. Why? Because of a killer sail trim clinic by the likes of GeorgeB:



smackdaddy said:


> Man - another priceless day. Very nice, steady 15 with only a few gusts to 23. Flew all the canvass we had - and had a blast. Hit 8 knots at one point according to the GPS!
> 
> Big wind, and a couple of hotties in the cockpit:
> 
> ...


Then from GeorgeB...



GeorgeB said:


> Smack, what does "AFOC" mean? And how does it relate to nice, easy going sails?
> 
> The Smacktanic is looking pretty good and if you are constantly moving at hull speed, you must be doing something right. Your photos look pretty interesting. Would you care for a little kibitzing? Your mainsail has a lot of belly and the draft is way far forward and you say that you have max halyard and outhaul on? Something doesn't sit right with me. Can you do a couple of things for me? Get your "P" and "E " dimensions and mark those locations on your mast and boom with black electrical tape. Then, the next time you have the main down for cleaning (or in your case, repairing), measure it too (it might have a shrunken bolt rope or streched Dacron.) Use the marks as a triming guide so you see if halward and outhaul are really working for you. Is your bolt rope in the boom track?
> 
> ...





GeorgeB said:


> [Smack, as Bubble said, the topping lift only supports the boom when the sail is down. Keep it on while hoisting (and lowering) the main so the slugs won't bind in thier track. Mains usually stat bagging out from the leach first (caused by constant poor trim or flogging while motoring). To check for that, hoist on a calm day (or in an upwind slip). Release the TL, but no vang and just the minimal mainsheet tension. Stand back and check to see if the boom is perpandicular. The lower the boom end, the more blown the sail. If your TL is too short, get a longer line. It doesn't support much weight, so you can get cheap, quarter inch line to replace it.
> 
> From your picture, you can see that the belly is deep and the draft is way forward. This is a "power up" trim which is great for accellerating from tacks and puffs, but inefficient for maintaining speeds. It gets you heeled over, but wouldn't you want to convert that force that is shoving your boat under water to instead be the force that is driving you forward? Banding the mast and boom will help us in figuring out how to pull the draft back.
> 
> ...


So, newbs, embrace your crappiness. And learn.


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

Using a "pigtail" in a marina outlet
Reputable distributors make devices that plug into a standard 30amp, shore electrical post and then let you plug you standard extension core into the device. They're common to see in marinas on boats that don't have a built-in AC power system. Here's the problem. The shore post has a circut breaker designed to trip when current goes over 30 amps. Your extension cord is probably rated at about 13 amps. If you draw more current than that you fry the extension cord and mabe your boat. That would be hard to explain to your insurance company. Solutions: Buy a 30amp extension cord. They cost about $33. Better still put a AC circut breaker on the boat suited to your wiring (e.g. 15 amps).


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Great tip walt. Thanks!


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

Nav Light memory aids:
Red over Green … sailing machine
Red over Red… the captain is dead (not under command)
Reed over white… fishing at night
Red Red Red…. rubbing rocks ahead (aground)
Green over White… trawler at night
Yellow over white… the towline is tight (long tow)


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## Waltthesalt (Sep 22, 2009)

Avoiding collisions
I recently read an article that overcomplicated this subject. The basics are simple:

How do I know I’m on a collision course? When the other boat’s bearing is constant. This is simple to figure out. Just line up the other boat with something on the shore. If the boat is moving ahead of the shore object it’ll pass ahead of you. If the other boat is moving back on the shore object it will pass astern.

How do I maneuver? You can’t go wrong by heading for the other boat’s stern. If it’s ahead or nearly ahead always turn right. 

Always make your turn large so it’s obvious to the other boat what you’re doing.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

When we read or hear about a sinking/abandonment/rescue, rarely do we get the skipper actually come on this forum to give a first account of what happened, mistakes made, and lessons learned. You can see why in the "S/V Triumph lost in the atlantic" thread as it devolves into the typical ridiculousness.

Regardless, this is extremely valuable stuff. And it should be preserved. Thanks for filling us in Doug. And hang in there dude.



DougSabbag said:


> Well, as the insurance check is "in the mail" I think I can let everyone know what happened, in greater detail, without concern for possible complications.
> 
> We left Boston on July 15th, and about a week out, the oil cooler malfunctioned allowing ocean water to mix with the engine oil. I changed the oil to remove as much of the water as possible, and did shut the thru hull for the ocean water to the engine.
> 
> ...


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## Harborless (Nov 10, 2010)

Geez... What a story. Its your wife, what are you going to do? Maybe let HER be rescued and you stay with the boat? Doesn't matter I suppose since either way your 50' has to come into contact with the 900'. Sounds to me like your standing rigging was in need of a through examination. Yet even still it sounds as though you had everything, more or less, under control. 
So many unknowns so it is impossible to be detailed but I wonder the amount of waster in your bilge? Also, did your Bilge pumps/utility pumps still work? Could they not handle the amount coming in? 
Was the water coming through the holes in the decks from the chain plates?
No use crying over spilled milk, but it sounds like you spilled a pretty big glass. 
You know why the Captain is the Captain right? He is in control. Of course, I understand your quandary. To overrule your wife on the high seas would not have meant for pleasant landings. Still, when were talking 50' boat worth big dollars I am of your opinion. If we arent in the raft, we arent calling for rescue.
It sounds to me that you guys were still pretty safe. I do not know the weather forecast but so long as the barometer was not dropping and your jury rig was holding up keeping your initial course was probably wisest. I recently read a Harvard study that concluded your first instincts are more than often the right one. Once you start second guessing you run into problems.
Sounds to me you will never have this problem again. You already proved capable of holding it together in less than good circumstances. Next time your experience will keep you on the right path.
Glad to hear you and yours made it safely home. Sounds like a truly epic (in the bad sense) day.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Harbor, Doug's answered many of your questions in the original thread (and dealt with a lot of crap as well). Click the little white/blue arrow by his name in my post above and it will take you to that thread.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

This about sums it up...



NewportNewbie said:


> Just finished a singlehanded sail around the harbor. I got back in my car when I was done and thought wow&#8230;what a rush! I have head that same feeling before, but it was in a very different environment. Doing 135 mph on a Ninja ZX-6R. Check. Doing 165 in a Porsche Carrera 4. Check. Doing 5 mph in a boat. WHAT? How is it that I can get that same feeling or even a better one from such a low speed experience? I have put a lot of thought to it and I still can't figure it out. Its the same reason that the Vikings wanted to be buried at sea. The same reason people live on boats and sail the world. There is something thats magical when you are out in the water and there is no motor and the boat is moving along in the wind. Is it adrenalin or is it zen? Yes maybe zen is more accurate. That state of mind where you are at one with your environment and at peace with the world. Where you and your boat are both working in unison to move through the wind. Where your mind is in the moment and you don't have a care in the world. Sailing is one of the few activities I have done where 100% of my conscious mind is focused on the activity. All my senses are taking in the environment as I analyze the wind, water and the surroundings looking for any clues that may help me squeeze another half of knot of speed out of the current conditions. My mind has let go completely the stresses of the regular world. The utility bills don't exist. I don't care when the new iPhone is coming out. I don't care that I will be at work tomorrow morning at 8 am. The only thing I am focused on is the windex showing me the direction the wind is coming from and how my sails are trimmed. This is bliss.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Ever wonder about the pros and cons of mono vs. multi? Here's someone who knows:



MMR said:


> I might as well weigh in also!
> 
> When we were thinking through this decision, we tried to focus on features that we felt would make transition to and maintenance of a live-aboard status workable for the two of us.
> 
> ...


Jump into the thread by clicking the little arrow by MMR's name above.


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## VK540 (May 6, 2011)

smackdaddy said:


> This about sums it up...[/QUOTE
> I recently took a cousin of mine for his first sailboat ride. We did the MacMan Challenge, a race from Makinac Island Michigan to Little Current, Manitoulin Island, Ontario. He raced motorcycles, snowmobiles and so on. He looked me right in the eyes after some sea sickness and 90 nautical miles of racing and said " I would have never believed I could have such a rush doing 9 miles per hour!" He was sincere. I forwarded the last post to him because it had so much meaning. Same story, and, the story ends with my boats name. BLISS!


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Okay - so, obviously I've been a little too busy lately to keep this thread updated...and I don't see that changing for a while...

SO...

Who wants to take over the reigns?

Obviously, with 20K views, it's a pretty relevant thread for newbs looking for a quick path to the best answers to oft-asked sailing questions on the interwebs.

It's really pretty simple...you just find the best response to said query, steal the hell out of it, and post it here. It's not rocket science. But it's pretty damn cool.

Surely one of you chumps is game enough to take the baton. Pay it forward, baby. Well?


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## tweitz (Apr 5, 2007)

I happened to look at this thread for the first time in a long time and I noticed WaltTheSalt's post #122. I would like to make a correction for the newbies out there. Walt says "How do I know I’m on a collision course? When the other boat’s bearing is constant. This is simple to figure out. Just line up the other boat with something on the shore. If the boat is moving ahead of the shore object it’ll pass ahead of you. If the other boat is moving back on the shore object it will pass astern." 
This is not quite right. 
Lining it up with an object on shore does not take into account all of the movement of both boats. Also, sometimes the shore is not visible. What you should do instead is line it up with a location on your own boat. If you see the other boat over the same spot on your boat over time, then your relative angle is not changing, and you are on a collision course. This also works for stationary objects like navaids, and the nice part is that it fully takes into account the movement of both boats, including leeway.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Heh. I'd forgotten about this thread. I started it over 8 years ago when I was just a newb. 

And now I'm a salt myself...offering valuable pearls of ocean-going wisdom! Just click on my profile name and you'll see all the wonder and education I've brought to this fine forum over the years.

Bottom line summary over these many years - salts on forums tend to be kind of snooty and hysterical. Things out there are not NEARLY as scary as they try to make it out to be. So just nod politely as they slur over their rum - then go sailing.

I think I'll skip the corner table and join you.


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## Barquito (Dec 5, 2007)

I think of knowledge as swiss cheese; As you become more experienced, and wise, the air bubbles get smaller. Even the saltiest coot will still have some small bubbles of ignorance (and maybe a few colonies of moldy ideas).


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## Jeff_H (Feb 26, 2000)

tweitz said:


> This is not quite right.
> Lining it up with an object on shore does not take into account all of the movement of both boats. Also, sometimes the shore is not visible. What you should do instead is line it up with a location on your own boat. If you see the other boat over the same spot on your boat over time, then your relative angle is not changing, and you are on a collision course. This also works for stationary objects like navaids, and the nice part is that it fully takes into account the movement of both boats, including leeway.


That is not 100% right either. You are partially correct that "If you see the other boat over the same spot on your boat over time, then your relative angle is not changing, and you are on a collision course." But that is only true if your boat is on the same compass course each time that you look.

Jeff


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

Boasun said:


> Man/Crew overboard: Drill for it. Remember you are one less crew if someone goes over.:


Old salt: Ayy my heart is heavy for the dumbass who fell off the boat,,,,but dam him if he didn't just make each watch an hour longer!!!! 😁


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

Jeff_H said:


> That is not 100% right either. You are partially correct that "If you see the other boat over the same spot on your boat over time, then your relative angle is not changing, and you are on a collision course." But that is only true if your boat is on the same compass course each time that you look.
> 
> Jeff


Yes, when your boat is bouncing all over the place you have to start watching early to determine if there is a "trend" that indicates your relative bearing is changing. Like when the line site stops bouncing around the spreader and moves up closer to the forestay.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Hilarious...and salty.


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