# A New Circumnav to Argue About!



## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Since Heather has let us all down so badly, and the prospect of a long, cold winter faces all of us armchair sailors living vicariously through others, , I submit for your approval or denigration the strange voyage of Mr. David Vann...about to commence in ....the Tin-can Zone.....









Latest news here: http://www.esquire.com/the-side/blog/tincan

No word yet on how his mommy feels about the voyage....but rumour has it that he DID buy her flowers on mothers day so obviously he is merely acting out her long repressed sea-dream she once had while opening a can of Sacremento Tomato Juice!


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## nolatom (Jun 29, 2005)

I thought we'd discussed this before.

Either way, my thoughts and heart are with those who may have to risk their lives to rescue him after someone calls the Coast Guard of some maritime nation after they haven't heard from him in a week or two.

If it's a risk he and his family are willing to see him take, then I hope he makes it. But I don't see how those three hulls are going to stay together on what seems like a really aggressive schedule.

If he makes it, great. If he doesn't, then I'd prefer there be only one casualty and no more.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

No word yet on how his mommy feels about the voyage....but rumour has it that he DID buy her flowers on mothers day so obviously he is merely acting out her long repressed sea-dream she once had while opening a can of Sacremento Tomato Juice! 

By building a boat out of the cans? (disclaimer: SAID IN JEST) 
Actually I bet it's fast and I hope it goes far.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

He can't be serious!. Maybe that's Giu's neighbor working on his dad's boat.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Well at least he has crossed the ocean before...(apparently from his blog or some bio I read)....but I thought that the whole purpose of owning a cat or trihull is that you get more room ...

From the looks of it - it almost appears his mast has more room inside of it than does the main hull....


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Since it looks like he going to try sailing an I-beam I don't think the CG will have to look far. He's likely to be sitting on the bottom at the end of the launch ramp!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

This guy was mentioned on this forum before IIRC.

The two things I see wrong with this... is *he wants to build a 50' x 30 trimaran for $25,000*, and *one of his heroes is Ken Barnes*... and yes, he does know how Ken Barnes's most recent voyage ended.

I know how expensive boats are to work on and to refit and build... and I just don't see him making a seaworthy vessel capable of handling the Southern Ocean for $25,000.

The fact that David Vann says: 


> Ken [Barnes] was well prepared and knowledgeable, and he had the proper equipment aboard to survive the conditions.


pretty much sums it up for me.

Looking at the images of the boat design and the actual photos of the boat, I don't think the boat is going to be able to withstand the kinds of stresses it is going to be encountering.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

I mostly avoided the other thread, because I had no doubts that the Flicka was capable of the voyage, which afterall was the original question. But this one is irresistible.

I did not read the blog, just glanced at the photos. Here are my predictions, all of which I hope are wrong: 

-The vaka is too fine with insufficient buoyancy, and will submarine; also, it does not seem to have a very hydrodynamic-shaped bottom 

- The akas are too flimsy, and will not withstand the torsion loads places on them by the amas; they will either collapse or the weld/bolt points will fail where they attach to the amas

- The amas MIGHT have been adequate if not for the shortcomings mentioned above, but in this case will be sorely taxed by the inadequacies of the over-all design

- The first adverse weather event will leave this "vessel" in pieces.

I wish he would seek the opinion of a few naval architects and reconsider the proposed route. His family should urge him to play around with it in local coastal waters for a while, as sea trials. 

I also hope there is a watertight compartment in the main hull and an escape hatch on the bottom of it.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Umm.... JRP, he did speak to a few naval architects IIRC.... and most walked away from the project.

He's also filled the amas and most of the vaka (main hull for you monohullers) with foam supposedly. The foam struck me as a really bad idea, since most foam isn't waterproof, and if the foam starts to absorb water... the buoyancy of the boat is going to drop rapidly, with little way of fixing it. If the amas were empty, they could at least be monitored for water leakage and then pumped out—as they are on my boat... but with foam in the amas and vaka—there will be little if any warning.

The akas (crossbeams for monohullers) would have been much stronger and better designed if they weren't crossed. That would give them much more strength against torsional loads at least... since the torque lever arm on the amas wouldn't be so much greater than that the vaka can apply, due to the difference in distance between the akas. 

Also, the akas and frame work of the boat is supposedly steel, and the skin of the amas and vaka are aluminum. Last I checked, welding the two was a difficult task with the proper equipment....and chancy at best otherwise... Why would they make and sell Triclad otherwise??? Galvanic corrosion is also an issue at the welds and between the metals. 

Given the mass of the framework and skin of the boat, I don't think the boat will have enough buoyancy to really be safe in the Southern Ocean. Whether it has enough buoyancy to resist the forces cause by the sails is another question entirely.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

It's like natural selection, in slow motion.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

That "tin can" has to make fellow tri-hull addicts swell with pride. Right S-Dog?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Ummm, yeah, right... just like Ken Barnes and Reid Stowe make monohull sailors proud... 


kwaltersmi said:


> That "tin can" has to make fellow tri-hull addicts swell with pride. Right S-Dog?


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

T34C said:


> It's like natural selection, in slow motion.


spit - cough - cleanup in progress - damn that was funny...


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

How Ken Barnes managed to escape the Darwainian loop is beyond me.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

I think I remember that between his hero and himself they have sunk 3 boats thus far.... maybe just two. One of the previous sinkings was a home built multi hull in the Carib, correct? Deja-stupid?

As far as natural selection goes, lets just say I've seen some really good candidates slip through the cracks unscathed.

Edit: This is no Kon-Tiki


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The Chilean fisherman are pretty good at rescuing sailors who have gotten themselves in to massive trouble.


T34C said:


> How Ken Barnes managed to escape the Darwainian loop is beyond me.


Believe sapper is correct about the three sunk boats between the two of them IIRC.


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## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

Sail Dog Has a great point ! 
The braceing is mostly wrong for the forces it may incounter .
The weak point might be the rear contact of the main strut from pontoon to the main body .
Put the plastic Jesus on the dash and go for it !


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Enough of this mindless cheerleading. When will you all stop encouraging this guy?? Please put away your pom-poms and warn him that he is on a dangerous mission in a poorly designed vessel and that he does NOT have to please mommy. What kind of mindless drones are you that you would encourage him with comparisons to Darwin and sailing-gods like Barnes and Stowe!!


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Awwwwee hell. Ernest Shackleton sunk his ship and look how good he came out of it?


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Not being a N.A. I'm not qualified to state that this boat will not make it to the Cape.

Not being a member of the Optimist Society I'm not pre-dispositioned towards hope, which is of course his only hope.

Not being insane I'm not qualified to comment on his apparent lack of sanity.

Being a sailor, I'm qualified to wish him the best of luck in floundering near qualified life savers.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

This guy's great grandmother has been bickering back and forth with me via posts on another forum about how David only needs "soul" to make this wonderous voyage a reality. 

I donated a dollar to his cause and only asked that he send me a case of rum from Cane Garden Bay in return. Hopefully he doesn't decide to take my money and "do the Europe-by-hostel-and-train thing".


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Kwalt....I sent him all my recycled soda cans for the last 6 months and he promised to name an Ama after me!!


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

This guy's going to make it and we're all going to look like a-holes.

Edit: (more so than we already are)


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

This one has what the U.S. Coast Guard terms "Manifestly Unsafe Voyage" written all over it.

But I sent him a check anyway, in consideration of which I asked only for salvage rights....

Joking aside, I wish him the best of luck.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Sapperwhite said:


> This guy's going to make it and we're all going to look like a-holes.
> 
> Edit: (more so than we already are)


You are effecting the gyroscope not me - that was too nice...


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

kwaltersmi said:


> This guy's great grandmother has been bickering back and forth with me via posts on another forum about how David only needs "soul" to make this wonderous voyage a reality.
> 
> I donated a dollar to his cause and only asked that he send me a case of rum from Cane Garden Bay in return. Hopefully he doesn't decide to take my money and "do the Europe-by-hostel-and-train thing".


That was dumb - didn't you read all the storage areas are filled with non descript foam of the waterlogging kind.... sucker - he no room for rum...


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Isn't that the "Larry the cable guy" of the seas???

Is it that guy that was building it in his backyard?


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> Isn't that the "Larry the cable guy" of the seas???
> 
> Is it that guy that was building it in his backyard?


The one whos "Architects" quit because they realised he was crafting a one way ticket the sea floor at the bottom of the boat ramp? Yep, thats the guy.

He said he really wants to travel the beautiful coast of Portugal and out sail every boat there in the most humiliating fashion.


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

Now look here, 
This guy might be as nutty as a squirrel turd, but I really do have to give him props for giving it a shot. 
His set is a heck of a lot bigger than mine, I'll give ya that.
I'm not going to bang on anybodys dream. 

Same thing for Stowe and that little chicklet he's got with him. 
Go nuts buddy, give it a go, If you make it, its a hip, hip hoo-ray, if you don't its an aw-*hite, and "when you gunna give it another try, eh? "


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

cardiacpaul said:


> Now look here,
> This guy might be as nutty as a squirrel turd, but I really do have to give him props for giving it a shot.
> His set is a heck of a lot bigger than mine, I'll give ya that.
> I'm not going to bang on anybodys dream.
> ...


You just like the fact Reid has a chicklet and if this whatever hulled guy manages to con a chick - you'd vote there too... I am with you - lesbians rock


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I saw nothing in the previous posting of this voyage that gave me cause to find it well-founded. And there are some Flicka's around in his price range. (g)

I also find the moderator intrusion into this thread is producing a chilling effect on the free expression of sailnetters everywhere and I can only hope that rational input from outside sources of expertise will aid in putting a stop to it. HELP!!!!!!



(g)


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

_I can only hope that rational input from outside sources of expertise will aid in putting a stop to it. HELP!!!!!!_

good luck with that!


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

kwaltersmi said:


> This guy's great grandmother has been bickering back and forth with me via posts on another forum about how David only needs "soul" to make this wonderous voyage a reality.
> 
> I donated a dollar to his cause and only asked that he send me a case of rum from Cane Garden Bay in return. Hopefully he doesn't decide to take my money and "do the Europe-by-hostel-and-train thing".


That is simply not true. He is really going to need imagination too, cause that's the only way he F-ing going anywhere!!!


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

He would have done better dispensing with the foam and filling it with ping pong balls. Thematically, I mean.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Valiente said:


> He would have done better dispensing with the foam and filling it with ping pong balls. Thematically, I mean.


Ever see that MythBusters where they lift a sunken ship with ping pong balls? I bet it would have put the Tin Man way over budget though, best go with 500 cans of Great Stuff.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Sapperwhite said:


> Ever see that MythBusters where they lift a sunken ship with ping pong balls? I bet it would have put the Tin Man way over budget though, best go with 500 cans of Great Stuff.


I would of done it with cheese and you would of married me. cheese is great it floats, produces penicillin and it apparently defines the 21st century sailing vessel - the cheesier scow...


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## Wannafish (Mar 25, 2004)

artbyjody said:


> I would of done it with cheese and you would of married me. cheese is great it floats, produces penicillin and it apparently defines the 21st century sailing vessel - the cheesier scow...


Are you saying that if Sapper married you he would need penicillin? 
Never mind...I don't want to know!


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Wannafish said:


> Are you saying that if Sapper married you he would need penicillin?
> Never mind...I don't want to know!


No - if he married me he would need a lobotomy (probably before so tho)


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

geez and cheese, ya'll get off topic fast !

If its a tin can he wants, with floatation the only solution is:
http://www.taquitos.net/snacks.php?snack_code=3876

Dang, get back on topic with a name like Jody we don't even know the gender for sure, now do we?


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

Off topic? 
We're all ADHD, Oh look, sumpin shiny! (pun reserved for the boat) LOLOL I crack myself up!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

People who announce such an attempt with such wide-spread publicity should be made to put up a bond for their eventual rescue.


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## gonesailin40 (Sep 6, 2007)

It looks like a Cajun Pirogue with Amas attached. I have a 15 foot Pirogue in the shed and an old rotating mast from a Hobie. I think I will add a dagger board,the mast/sail, and some amas and see how it works out in the Mexican Gulf, here on the Florida Coast. Perhaps then I will be better able to decide what position to take on his chance of making it.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

I took a hobie 14 out from the Playa del Carmen beach I was on in Cancun last November. First time ever on a Hobie, or a dinghy sized sailing boat. 

Wonder if I could have made it to Florida? I had a water bottle full of Gossling and Coke and some chewing gum, a PFD on and my ear ring is a anchor. 

I'd have tried it, but there were just too many topless women on the beach calling me back. Besides, my iTouch was low on battery charge. Next time I'll plan better....maybe it's time for some my meds...

Oh, look, a chicken....


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

All I can think of is this:










Bluto crushing the beer can on his head. Anyone find the video? I think we should send it to this guy, with love from the guys at sailinept.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Hey BF...he doesn't want the video...he wants the can!! 

I see we've managed to drive poor Anton completely bonkers after only 30 posts! Buck up Anton...tomorrow you may come back to find post #30 edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

camaraderie said:


> Hey BF...he doesn't want the video...he wants the can!!
> 
> I see we've managed to drive poor Anton completely bonkers after only 30 posts! Buck up Anton...tomorrow you may come back to find post #30 edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited


I'll give Anton a run for his money - I was gonna come up with my own "Canned" motif... try and keep up with tonight Cam.... I am going for a previously set SD record of 1000 posts in one night.... 

Now though...Jody...tomorrow you may come back to find edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited edited ... you must pm camaraderie to find what I was edited about (and now I am banned)


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

artbyjody said:


> I'll give Anton a run for his money - I was gonna come up with my own "Canned" motif... try and keep up with tonight Cam.... I am going for a previously set SD record of 1000 posts in one night....


Please use Mr. Beam's special grammar helper and Dr. Daniels spell check.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Are you baiting me Camaraderie?



> Enough of this mindless cheerleading. When will you all stop encouraging this guy??


Be careful what you wish for. Seems like you moderators are already swamped repairing pulled threads. 

Seriously, though, at the risk of being seen as heartless naysayers, I do think it's probably best to view all these publicly announced ventures with a healthy dose of pessimism and ridicule, otherwise this sort of idiocy will only continue to escalate in this day and age of instant internet fame.

Greg K.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Koz said:


> Are you baiting me Camaraderie?
> 
> Be careful what you wish for. Seems like you moderators are already swamped repairing pulled threads.
> 
> ...


I am waiting for the how to article to be posted..maybe Giu can make a video...


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Apparently there's not much argument on this one....


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## Gryzio (Dec 13, 2007)

*If it works I going to try this*

All I need now is a Mast and Keel.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

JohnR...which means he'll probably make it and us armchair sailors who told him to quit will once again been proven AFOC's. Meanwhile...you have taken the usual non-committal stance of summmarizing OTHERS opinions while applying for AFOC status yourself. Ain't gonna work for ya John...you have to be a PROVEN ass for membership not the STATISTICIAN!!


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> JohnR...which means he'll probably make it and us armchair sailors who told him to quit will once again been proven AFOC's. Meanwhile...you have taken the usual non-committal stance of summmarizing OTHERS opinions while applying for AFOC status yourself. Ain't gonna work for ya John...you have to be a PROVEN ass for membership not the STATISTICIAN!!


Hey, I took a stance on the very first page of this thread! And again on page 3 ("manifestly unsafe voyage"). You can't censor me, you mean moderator!


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

I intend to launch on / embark forthwith on my circumcision TWO WEEKS after the TWO WEEKS of the launch of the Tri-minni- that is TWO WEEKS already later for launch...

Here is my vessel:










I have some epoxy work to do for the keel...I will require paper only donations please...you will be able to live the adventure as well, by merely making a small replica and floating it in your tub...


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Now what the hell is the Flying Nun going to do without her hat?


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> JohnR...which means he'll probably make it and us armchair sailors who told him to quit will once again been proven AFOC's. Meanwhile...you have taken the usual non-committal stance of summmarizing OTHERS opinions while applying for AFOC status yourself. Ain't gonna work for ya John...you have to be a PROVEN ass for membership not the STATISTICIAN!!


Talk about a rough crowd, when the moderator starts calling you out....


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Thanks Cam,
Many have aspired to the status of AFOC, yet few have been willing to make the sacrifices necessary. It is indeed impossible to not like John Pollard, he's a thoroughly decent man and would make a fine shipmate. The problem is that John is unwilling to help his AFOC shipmates grease the gangway. Apparently John is concerned that the Captain will take the quick ride to the dock that is actually intended for that swine of a Cook. True AFOC's never consider such inconsequentials. What's a few broken command vertebrae for an opportunity to get back at a Cook with a stone for a heart? It is not a coincidence that most AFOC's have a better than average working knowledge of the movie Animal House. In fact, most AFOC's regard it as the pinnacle of American film-making. John Pollard might consider a trip to the video store because "nothing's over 'til we say it's over". AFOC's understand that credo. It's also not a coincidence that our favorite explanation is, "Hey Kent, ya F*****-Up, you trusted us".


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)




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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Let's just say Mr. Pollard that you are on "double secret probation" from Dean Sway!


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

sailaway21 said:


> Thanks Cam,
> Many have aspired to the status of AFOC, yet few have been willing to make the sacrifices necessary. It is indeed impossible to not like John Pollard, he's a thoroughly decent man and would make a fine shipmate. The problem is that John is unwilling to help his AFOC shipmates grease the gangway. Apparently John is concerned that the Captain will take the quick ride to the dock that is actually intended for that swine of a Cook. True AFOC's never consider such inconsequentials. What's a few broken command vertebrae for an opportunity to get back at a Cook with a stone for a heart? It is not a coincidence that most AFOC's have a better than average working knowledge of the movie Animal House. In fact, most AFOC's regard it as the pinnacle of American film-making. John Pollard might consider a trip to the video store because "nothing's over 'til we say it's over". AFOC's understand that credo. It's also not a coincidence that our favorite explanation is, "Hey Kent, ya F*****-Up, you trusted us".





camaraderie said:


> Let's just say Mr. Pollard that you are on "double secret probation" from Dean Sway!


I am having trouble following this AFOC stuff -- too confusing for my dawn of man brain.

But I would like to go for a sail in ArtbyJody's paper hat boat thing.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

JohnRPollard said:


> I am having trouble following this AFOC stuff -- too confusing for my dawn of man brain.
> 
> But I would like to go for a sail in ArtbyJody's paper hat boat thing.


That was a AFOC comment - you got my vote (realize that still with rep power of 1 it mean nothing - other than you sip your bev of choice and think - "someone disrespects me enough"- you realize the design only will last for 40 days before it disintegrates - a brave soul you are...or as stupid as I am


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Due to the nature of the material not following all further correspondence regarding AFOC's and initiation into same will be transferred to the Off Topic forum. We're behind on the insurance premiums again.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

sailaway21 said:


> Due to the nature of the material not following all further correspondence regarding AFOC's and initiation into same will be transferred to the Off Topic forum. We're behind on the insurance premiums again.


Bah humbug


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

artbyjody said:


> That was a AFOC comment - you got my vote- you realize the design only will last for 40 days before it disintegrates - a brave soul you are...or as stupid as I am


Given the sleek design, and a bit of luck, I would expect to finish the Great Southern Capes circumnavigation in well under 40 days, so no worries on that account.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

JohnRPollard said:


> Given the sleek design, and a bit of luck, I would expect to finish the Great Southern Capes circumnavigation in well under 40 days, so no worries on that account.


Your application for captain is accepted and I will co-ordinate your voyage from shore - thanks for signing on!


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Sprinkle some wheat grass seeds in that baby, and watch the grass grow! Could strengthen the hull and extend that 40 day forecast. (and feed the crew) I think there is a link around here to a thread that will show you how......let me see.....where is that thread.......


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Hey...he is back with another post. Looks like launch in a week. In this weeks blog he discloses that he is doing this without EITHER and Engine or an ANCHOR!! 
http://www.esquire.com/the-side/blog/tincan


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## rennisaint (Oct 25, 2007)

Wow.....so, he's going to circumnav with no motor, no anchor, and on top of it all he wants to launch on a Friday. SWEET!


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Good Lord..

I am speechless....

fairwinds and God speed, if you are reading this.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> Hey...he is back with another post. Looks like launch in a week. In this weeks blog he discloses that he is doing this without EITHER and Engine or an ANCHOR!!
> http://www.esquire.com/the-side/blog/tincan


He is clearly going with no brain... what would he do with an engine and anchor. Hope he leaves the EPIRB at home too.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

I bet he didn't buy the engine because he spent all the budget in Buffalo Wild Wings, Budweiser, beans and Hot pockets....

For literature, the latest Wall Mart catalog, and a king size poster of the Oakland Raiders....

ahh AM/FM radio also...for the weather broadcast


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

rennisaint said:


> Wow.....so, he's going to circumnav with no motor, no anchor, and on top of it all he wants to launch on a Friday. SWEET!


He could have saved even _more _money by just throwing himself off a pier and doing his circ. that way.


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## gonesailin40 (Sep 6, 2007)

I hope his trip last longer than Captain Heathers adventure did.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I hope he brings lots of flour and sugar. That things is going to be an oven during the inferno that is the doldrums!

-Spencer


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I don't know. Heather actually had a seaworthy boat, something that has yet to be established in this case.


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## sailordave (Jun 26, 2001)

*?????*



gonesailin40 said:


> I hope his trip last longer than Captain Heathers adventure did.


Okay, I've been away from reality for a while (some would say I never have been in touch w/ reality!) so what's up w/ Heather. Checked her web site and saw no mention of difficulties (or of departing)

What's going on? She give up, sink, get married ....?


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## gonesailin40 (Sep 6, 2007)

Ran into some rough weather. Had a few other problems. Limped back to safety and is now moving on with her life. I hope she has not quit sailing. But I think she had a meeting with Jesus on her short journey and decided globetrotting via sailboat was not for her.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Short version: Heather turned back with some injury as well as some seamanship issues. Both Heather and boat are now fine. Mission aborted. Future plans in limbo. Discussion of topic on sailnet reached critical mass and was terminated with extreme prejudice by a moderator. Currently the "children's book", "Heather Has Two Mommies" is a less controversial topic here.


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## asivesind (Jan 20, 2008)

I showed the pictures of tin can to my house mate, who is not a sailor, and his reply was "what is that thing?"


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

> I'll do the test sails on San Francisco Bay on Saturday, then I'll hopefully be on a mooring buoy that night and set sail Sunday morning (Feb 10) for Southern California, about 400 miles away. My plan is to just keep going if everything goes well, making the circumnavigation San Francisco to San Francisco. But if I need to make any repairs or changes, I'll pull into San Diego, since I'm familiar with that port. And I'm willing to pull into a port at any point during the trip if the boat doesn't seem safe or I just don't feel confident. *Contrary to what some folks on sailing forums seem to think, I'm not insane or reckless.* I'm trying something which is challenging, a true expedition, the most exciting thing I've ever done, and I'm happy with how the boat has turned out. I wish I were leaving earlier in the season, but after studying the pilot charts, I think I'm going to be okay. And I've worked out a plan with Don and Buddy, my weather gurus. I'm going to wait for weather at Cape Horn if I have to, wait again before rounding Tasmania and New Zealand, and I'm also going to go farther north between Cape Horn and Australia than I had previously planned. I'll try to get up around 40 degrees instead of 45, if the wind cooperates. It means a longer route, but it avoids the highest probabilities of gales. And the main thing is, I'm willing to stop the trip and wait until next year if I need to. I'm not driven by pride or shame. I'm fine with admitting that things aren't working out if they're not working out.


I wonder why would people at sailing sites, a place where normally *SAILORS TALK ABOUT SAILBOATS AND SAILING* would think that????


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well another statistic about to happen ruining the image and safety that the multihull concept supports so well. Just add seawater hook up the electrodes and position on the temples and maybe he will find god with this design. I truly hope his insurance is paid. Good luck


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Does his trip remind you of anything?


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

I saw that boat at Universal Studios in Florida....its rotting away....

It has this stupid thing wrapped around the mast.....?????


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Giulietta said:


> I saw that boat at Universal Studios in Florida....its rotting away....
> 
> It has this stupid thing wrapped around the mast.....?????


Actually, the original was sitting in San Diego a few docks down from my Bro's. The rigging (stays)on that thing were insane (1/2" or better).Story goes the guy bought it in Hawaii for 35k after the filming of the movie and had it towed back to Diego. they recently moved it from his dock as it was an eyesore.


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

Then what boat did I see oin Florida?? It had written it was the boat of the movie.

The one I recall did not have that on the mast top, had these curved things that looked like bows that ran from the mast top to the base.

That was not the one I saw.


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## tdw (Oct 2, 2006)

Giulietta said:


> Then what boat did I see oin Florida?? It had written it was the boat of the movie.
> 
> The one I recall did not have that on the mast top, had these curved things that looked like bows that ran from the mast top to the base.
> 
> That was not the one I saw.


Alex, I think there where a number of them built for the movie but only one was actually sailable.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Ok guys, I'm not a movie goer so what movie was this?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Giulietta said:


> Then what boat did I see oin Florida?? It had written it was the boat of the movie.
> 
> The one I recall did not have that on the mast top, had these curved things that looked like bows that ran from the mast top to the base.
> 
> That was not the one I saw.


yore talking about the "egg beaters". new owner removed them


















denby, it's Kevin Costners Waterworld


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks BJ, Did that thing actually sail?


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Built by Jeanneau just for the movie as I recall.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Here's a link to story
states it broke 30 kts


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

They say 2 were built, so maybe you saw one I saw the other one.

I did a google Earth on Univeresal and the boat is not there anymore...It was becoming very ugly and looked like water was getting in.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

see if this works 32°43'39.02"N 117°12'14.82"W (paste into google earth)
this is the one in San Diego.


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

Only the best Kevin Costners movie ever made.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Not exactly setting the bar real high are you...


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

That movie where he is running around trying to keep people from thinking he is a Russian spy was good ...

Edit, I looked it up, it's called "No way out", worth watching.


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## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

You guys are all wrong !
I drank a bunch of beer and recived a lot of insite on this journey.
Its the tools bought at Home depot thats make this sailors dream come true.
You dont need a engine ...its got sails dont it ?
its what SAILINGS ALL ABOUT.
As for a anchor the Tin Can will sink in a short time after the foam soaks up with sea water and will become it own anchor.

The positive side it will become a natural reef for sea life soon after without all hazards a engine would cause to the enviroment. This in fact could bring in tourist dollars from divers wanting to do wreck dives in that area .

I belive as ..seasoned or new sailors on this site ..all should support every dream out there . Can you imagine the sailing comuinty as one !


Super bowl ....go NY


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Danny33 said:


> You guys are all wrong !
> I drank a bunch of beer and recived a lot of insite on this journey.
> Its the tools bought at Home depot thats make this sailors dream come true.
> You dont need a engine ...its got sails dont it ?
> ...


spoken as a true drunken sailor..


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

T34C said:


> Not exactly setting the bar real high are you...


....roflmao


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

I didn't realize he is here. Anyone know what marina? Hey David if you are still reading, I really do wish you well and a safe passage, despite all our ribbing here.


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## HarbourBoy (Dec 11, 2007)

Anyone remember the "vessel" Son of Town Hall? It was made of logs scavenged from the Hudson River and scrap lumber, plywood and styrofoam from Manhattan dumpsters. The people who made it (a few old hippies) planned to take their 2 rottweillers to Europe on it. 

I can't post links here but if you google the vessel name you'll find info.

I met them in '97 when they pulled into a small village on the south shore of Nova Scotia. As they pulled away from the wharf I thought that would be the last time anyone ever saw them. But they made it to Ireland eventually and then carried on to France. 

I know wood floats better than steel and aluminum ... and the north Altantic isn't the southern ocean. But the tone of the comments in this thread sound just like the ones about Son of Town Hall ... identical ... right down to the naval architects' and boat builders' expert sounding comments. 

That said ... I WOULD NOT have crossed the harbour in Lower West Pubnico on Town Hall, nor would I want to sail away from the dock aboard this boat.


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

The way this boat is constructed reminds me a little of all those 'really good' Mel Gibson movies. You know, the Mad Max or was it Rode Warrior series? Water World is Road Warrior only on water.


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## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

And here I figured dumpster diving would never get me anywhere.
I should have stayed in school!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I think the guy shows an incredible strength of character, in spite of the 'naysayers'. Will he make down to Sth Cal, or even further, well that is an other question. 

While it lasts, that thing is going to be fast! It will be a handful to keep under control, and from the photos it looks like he cant depower the main other than reefing. If he has a problem with the furler while underway, all I can say is I hope he is hooked on.

If you are reading this David, please please please do at least a few days of sea trials! If not for your self, then for your family and friends. 

Bloke


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## hphoen (Apr 3, 2003)

*Tin Can Update*

*Circumnavigating in a Tin Can*

February 8, 2008 - San Francisco Bay
After a test sail on San Francisco Bay on Saturday, 39-year-old David Vann of Tallahassee, Florida, hopes to leave Sunday on a four-month non-stop singlehanded circumnavigation via the Southern Ocean aboard his trimaran _Tin Can_.

http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2008-02-08&dayid=70#Story4


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

I guess he's given up on that Alcoa sponsorship coming through in time. (g)


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

No word on the blog yet of any sail or results. Anyone in SF able to see if he is still on the hard? Weather is good for a test but no word on any of the usual sites about him.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

He is supposed to leave tomorrow, but I don't even know what marina he is in.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Well I hope*

he makes it...

I bet you all will start cheering for him once he gets going...I will be...

He has definitely put in a plug for Home Depo..I bet if he gets half way around they will sponsor him...


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## saltygator (Dec 13, 2006)

Somewhere way back, somebody took a shot at this guy saying he was unnecessarily risking rescuers lives, just for the record, I have talked to several CG rescuers and they are excited about the attempt. They respect the challenge to the sea, and oh yeah, ah, they said, we train to rescue, we like to rescue, and tell the dude Godspeed! If it goes wrong, we will be there.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I hope he makes it as well, i really want his boat to hold up so he can talk some trash to us nay sayers


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*pirate*

can you change your Avatar...I cant keep from lusting...


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

bestfriend said:


> He is supposed to leave tomorrow, but I don't even know what marina he is in.


Well there is a good a reason as any to go for a sail on the bay, we can go find him and you can make the video to show on here. what do you say I don't mind, you can just sit back drink beer and be camera man.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

SimonV said:


> Well there is a good a reason as any to go for a sail on the bay, we can go find him and you can make the video to show on here. what do you say I don't mind, you can just sit back drink beer and be camera man.


Sorry mate, no time for crushing beer cans on the skull. Max and I have a busy day. Promised him all sorts of stuff.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Stillraining said:


> can you change your Avatar...I cant keep from lusting...


 sorry, i keep trying to change it because the wife is on my @$$ but the pervert mods have locked me out of my user CP.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

bestfriend said:


> He is supposed to leave tomorrow, but I don't even know what marina he is in.


He is in Napa Valley Marina...way north of the Bay...near Vallejo.

BJ...we may be perverts...but at least we have good taste. Still working on the 800x600 special avatar mod for you!


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Another exciting attempt to sail around the world alone!

I miss those folks from the other board, now there is nobody around to tell us all how dumb we are. And if the guy fails in his attempt there won't even be anybody around to say "I told you so".


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*OH great*

Quote:
BJ...we may be perverts...but at least we have good taste. Still working on the 800x600 special avatar mod for you! 
__________________
There goes my other eye...


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

saltygator said:


> Somewhere way back, somebody took a shot at this guy saying he was unnecessarily risking rescuers lives, just for the record, I have talked to several CG rescuers and they are excited about the attempt. They respect the challenge to the sea, and oh yeah, ah, they said, we train to rescue, we like to rescue, and tell the dude Godspeed! If it goes wrong, we will be there.


Exactly what percentage of the entire USCG did you talk to??? Did you ask them how they feel when they arrive on scene and have to pull dead bodies from the sea???


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

BJ

I just want the unedited version.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Any word on if he left or not?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Word is that he is being towed out to Vallejo NOW...shakedown to begin soon. BF and SIMON ....you have the COMM!!! We want reports!!


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> Word is that he is being towed out to Vallejo NOW...shakedown to begin soon. BF and SIMON ....you have the SALVAGE RIGHTS!!! We want reports!!


Just remember, you can recycle whatever you salvage.


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

Some interesting commentary from Latitude 38 here. Looks like I'm not the only one to think "manifestly unsafe voyage" in connection with this attempt:

http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2008-02-08&dayid=70

But in the best traditions of the sea, I wish you Godspeed David Vann.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

www.sailinganarchy.com has a main page story on him today called:
*Suicide by Circumnavigation

*Guess we know where they stand!


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> www.sailinganarchy.com has a main page story on him today called:
> *Suicide by Circumnavigation
> 
> *Guess we know where they stand!


They sound worse then us.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

40 days - besides other quoted sources but where does that vessel store food ? From the appearances I could take my bathtub - add some stringers and additional foam filled thingies to make it a whatever...So he wants to make it 40 days but I have a hard time seeing where there is any room to store provisions to begin with...To accomplish such you ned both a vessel to support the effort (so lets just say the contraption works) the other is the ability to sustain the energy / life force of the person(s) sailing it... 

Maybe I am missing it - did the guy ever post a diagram of the design? I almost think this is like me doing a circumsion on my anorexic girlfriends back because she could swim...


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Jody: 
* where does that vessel store food 
*He is just bringing SPAM ....doubles as food and hull repair spares!


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## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

I wish it was me going so I could say;" I told ya so " 
When the coast gaurd come and got me !


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

camaraderie said:


> Jody:
> * where does that vessel store food
> *He is just bringing SPAM ....doubles as food and hull repair spares!


Cam that was the funniest response yet to my conjectures... I'd spread the love but your software stated that I must spread it equally - and I am uncomfortable because I have been with questionable sexual partners... nice laugh!


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## starboardyacht (Sep 30, 2007)

*Are you guys having fun yet?*

Oh my gosh, hehe, haha,,,,,..... 13 pages of pot shots about a guy with the balls to try something different.... all on his own, no support, (not even moral support from fellow sailors)... such an easy target, you guys are oh so smart, clevor...... and brave.... all tied up safe and sound at your dock or moorings....... anticipating the great train wreck, oh i can hardly wait to post " see there, we knew this would happen, another crazy dreamer gets what he deserves, how dare he not be rich enough to buy a boat anyone could sail around the world" the audacity of this brother of the sea.............. 13 pages...... man 

*" Far better is it to dare mighty things, even though chequered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much, nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory or defeat"*

good luck skipper, i'm pulling for ya, if you make around or just out of the slip, your a captain couragous in my book.... hope i have the stones to at least try one day myself......


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## supergrade (Jan 31, 2008)

starboardyacht said:


> Oh my gosh, hehe, haha,,,,,..... 13 pages of pot shots about a guy with the balls to try something different.... all on his own, no support, (not even moral support from fellow sailors)... such an easy target, you guys are oh so smart, clevor...... and brave.... all tied up safe and sound at your dock or moorings.......


It's hard to be witty when you misspell "clever".


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## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

Another fine example of mommy and or daddy not validating my feelings ...Starb


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> www.sailinganarchy.com has a main page story on him today called:
> *Suicide by Circumnavigation
> 
> *Guess we know where they stand!


Good article. Seems to pretty well sum up the whole thing.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

starboardyacht said:


> Oh my gosh, hehe, haha,,,,,..... 13 pages of pot shots about a guy with the balls to try something different.... all on his own, no support, (not even moral support from fellow sailors)... such an easy target, you guys are oh so smart, clevor...... and brave.... all tied up safe and sound at your dock or moorings....... anticipating the great train wreck, oh i can hardly wait to post " see there, we knew this would happen, another crazy dreamer gets what he deserves, how dare he not be rich enough to buy a boat anyone could sail around the world" the audacity of this brother of the sea.............. 13 pages...... man
> 
> *" Far better is it to dare mighty things, even though chequered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much, nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory or defeat"*
> 
> good luck skipper, i'm pulling for ya, if you make around or just out of the slip, your a captain couragous in my book.... hope i have the stones to at least try one day myself......


I think it is called COMMON SENSE. Clearly, not that common anymore.

_*good luck skipper, i'm pulling for ya, if you make around or just out of the slip, your a captain couragous in my book.... hope i have the stones to at least try one day myself...*_

A little like cheering for a guy who wants to base jump with a parachute made from a bed sheet. He has stones alright, unfortunatly they're all in his head.


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## starboardyacht (Sep 30, 2007)

supergrade said:


> It's hard to be witty when you misspell "clever".


oh.... you are the clevor one, you get a cookie........ i thought you guys liked easy targets


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Here he is!!


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Is it actually floating, or is he on the bottom in a tidal marsh?


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

He's orf!









Sorry, cheap shot. I'd have infinite respect if Mr. Vann were setting off without fanfare and reported his success or failure upon return. Nothing in the world prevents him from achieving first, then reporting his experience.

It's not the boat, it's not the venture ... it's the self-aggrandizement and attention-whoring we resent, isn't it? It's considered awful form in climbing circles, to broadcast loudly your intention to attempt Mount XYZ via its deadly Grisly Face. Go climb the damn thing, then write up your epic account for the rags afterwards. Doing it wrong-way-round makes it more spectacle than private compulsion. We are rightly suspicious of the motive, and splashing thus into the public domain makes the enterprise fair game for sniping, second-guessing, and ridicule. Don't like it? Build it on the sly and leave quietly.

The final product looks beefier than early plans and mock-ups suggested. Flat bottoms may be easier to build, but they are gonna poundpoundpound. Might be a race to see what comes unstitched first -- the welds, or the welder.

Good luck, Mr. Vann. There's admirable ways and cheesy ways to go adventuring on the cheap. The Southern Ocean knows the diff.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

There is a slight difference between coloring outside the lines and coloring all over the walls and ceiling then pooping in your hand and throwing it all over those same walls while waiting for the mother ship to beam you back up.

This guy may go the way of friend Reid and actually make it pretty far. Hell he might even pull it off, but that doesn't mean I'll have my nose up his ass. Kinda like suicide, I don't care if you off yourself, just don't take anyone else with you. 

As far as the Coasties go, I'm sure they do enjoy rescues. I know more than most how it feels to train so hard for years at your MOS to finally be able to put your skill set to use in real world situations. It's very fulfilling and gives you a sense of accomplishment and worth that is very hard to find in the civilian world. However, I'd hate to hear of a rescue swimmer drowning getting tangled in this ass bags mangled rigging after his fun little adventure goes awry.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

There is no argument about this vessel. When he tries going around the Horn or Cape Aguhaus there will disaster. End of comment.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I think 'disaster' has already struck. Looks like the Coasties got him and are towing him back. He was sailing along when a cutter came up and then his sails dropped. Watched it in real time.


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

sailboy21 said:


> I think 'disaster' has already struck. Looks like the Coasties got him and are towing him back. He was sailing along when a cutter came up and then his sails dropped. Watched it in real time.


Can you do something with the cam so we can see it?


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

http://cams.exploratorium.edu:8010/1/control.html

but the fog rolled in. He was by Sausalito


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## supergrade (Jan 31, 2008)

Now I'm really curious.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

sailboy21 said:


> I think 'disaster' has already struck. Looks like the Coasties got him and are towing him back. He was sailing along when a cutter came up and then his sails dropped. Watched it in real time.


That's not disaster. That is being saved from disaster by the brave men and women of the USCG. I'd much rather they rescue him now, when they can do it safely, than later. Dumba$$ probably forgot to register his boat!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)




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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Without comment!


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> Without comment!


Come on.... Go ahead, comment!!!


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

A floating sculpture I like it....so any actual news on this thing even the swags over on SA haven't been able to get the scoop yet or was the vessel impounded by homeland security and stories squashed for sake of national security?


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> Here he is!!


Since there don't appear to be any registration numbers on the hull and it doesn't show-up as documented with the CG, I'm guessing it wasn't hard for them to find a reason to haul him back in.


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## Zanshin (Aug 27, 2006)

I'm curious - does that mean if I were to home build a boat I would need to get registration numbers from some authority before putting the boat in the water in the USA?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Drifter..no engine on this boat!


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Zanshin said:


> I'm curious - does that mean if I were to home build a boat I would need to get registration numbers from some authority before putting the boat in the water in the USA?


In some states certain small boats, without propultion, do not require registration. I guessing that ALL states would require registration for a 50 boat.

From the Califonia DMV website.

_*What Vessels Must be Registered? 
Generally, every sail-powered vessel over eight feet in length and every motor-driven vessel (regardless of length) that is not documented by the U.S. Coast Guard which is used or on the waters of this state are subject to registration by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). The vessel must be located in California*_.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*In Washington*

Any boat over 16'... or more then 10 hp.... or *any* boat in federal water's requires registration.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Last I heard he did 243 miles in a day and was somewhere off brazil, but he started having comms problems and could no longer transmit    

Seriously though, he forgot that this is 2008 and you can't wipe your ass without the proper permits and at least two inspections from different government agancies of the quality and thoroughness of said wipe job. Dropping everything and sailing off into the blue is very romantic. Too bad you aren't allowed to do it without your papers in order first (not so romantic after all).


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

His latest blog seems to concede that he is getting a late start and may have to re-think the itinerary/route and/or the schedule. Good news in my book -- maybe now he will pause and take the time for proper sea trials in the vicinity of his homeport. A heavy Pacific swell should put the boat through its paces, maybe he can shore-up any weaknesses. Or conclude the boat just isn't up for the task... 

I also noticed he's now equipped with an anchor!!


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## hphoen (Apr 3, 2003)

'Lectronic Latitude has an update on David and his Tin Can, along with a couple of photos showing him test-sailing in 8-10 knots.

http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2008-02-13&dayid=72#Story2


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## hphoen (Apr 3, 2003)

Here's Sailing Anarchy's latest Tin Can update, entitled "Train Wreck":

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/index_page1.phphttp://www.sailinganarchy.com/index_page1.php

When I glanced at the photo, I thought at first he was wearing a hard hat. Probably should be!

Be sure to click on the links...


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

Am I going blind? If so, let me know so I can tell the Army they have to work on their Lasik program. The reason I ask is this, I think I see a lexan hatch mounted on the side of his hull half underwater.......


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

i posted that after taking a long hard look at the pic but not reading the article.......apparently thats the "Escape hatch".


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

You mean this one????








[/URL][/IMG]

Try the SA site link above.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

I'm sure that will stand up to the Southern Ocean. I know it has been mentioned before, but when you read about this guy it sounds JUST like Donald Crowhurst. I really wonder if his lack of sofistication (sp) was an effort to allow him to atempt the same kind of voyage. I think Sir Edmund Hillary would have wanted to kick this guys a$$.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

T34C said:


> You mean this one????.....
> 
> Try the SA site link above.


Thats where I got it from and edited the 2nd pic in while you were posting it too.

Think lexan will hold up half submerged in the southern ocean? If it does (it won't), they seriously need to put that info in the ads.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

T34C said:


> ........... sounds JUST like Donald Crowhurst.......


I watched Deep Water again last night with my girlfriend and could not stop thinking to myself "tin can, tin can, tin can, tin can"

That movie is very good if anyone hasn't seen it, highly recommended. The production value was high quality too, unlike many sailing movies.


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## hphoen (Apr 3, 2003)

If you look at the photo of the Tin Can being launched http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2008/van Splash.jpg and then the photo of the semi-submerged hatch http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2008/van Underwater survival hatch.jpg , it's pretty apparent that the boat is sitting 5 or 6 inches lower in the water than planned, based on where he painted the waterline.

That's going to be one wet ride!


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## billangiep (Dec 10, 2003)

also the turnbuckles are lacking any keepers.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

hphoen said:


> If you look at the photo of the Tin Can being launched http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2008/van Splash.jpg and then the photo of the semi-submerged hatch http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2008/van Underwater survival hatch.jpg , it's pretty apparent that the boat is sitting 5 or 6 inches lower in the water than planned, based on where he painted the waterline.
> 
> That's going to be one wet ride!


Assuming he actually goes anywhere.

billangiep- It's OK, he has duct tape.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

billangiep said:


> also the turnbuckles are lacking any keepers.


sharp eye, this is like an even more fun version of Where's Waldo


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## FarCry (Apr 21, 2007)

Perhaps as the vessel structure crumples up he intends to keep retuning his rig.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Swim Waldo Swim!!!


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Maybe thats because*

he decided his tig welder was more important then food...

Quote:If you look at the photo of the Tin Can being launched http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe...n Splash.jpg and then the photo of the semi-submerged hatch http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe...al hatch.jpg , it's pretty apparent that the boat is sitting 5 or 6 inches lower in the water than planned, based on where he painted the waterline.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Hell, maybe he welded the turnbuckles.

_*Quote:If you look at the photo of the Tin Can being launched http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe...n Splash.jpg and then the photo of the semi-submerged hatch http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe...al hatch.jpg , it's pretty apparent that the boat is sitting 5 or 6 inches lower in the water than planned, based on where he painted the waterline.*_

By that logic, he should have run the bottom paint right to the mast head, cause thats where the water line is likely to be before this is over. See also, his previous boat:








[/URL][/IMG]

"A mile down"


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Stillraining said:


> he decided his tig welder was more important then food...
> 
> Quote:If you look at the photo of the Tin Can being launched http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe...n Splash.jpg and then the photo of the semi-submerged hatch http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe...al hatch.jpg , it's pretty apparent that the boat is sitting 5 or 6 inches lower in the water than planned, based on where he painted the waterline.


But credit where credit is due.. his NA skipped town on him, and that is one hellofa erector set to put together! I am amazed he got the painted waterline as close as he did! Bow up and stern down is better than bow down.. I don't think anyone here could have painted it better except by pure chance. Now.. that hatch thing... that is the dumbest idea I have EVER seen...


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

sailboy21 said:


> But credit where credit is due.. his NA skipped town on him, and that is one hellofa erector set to put together! I am amazed he got the painted waterline as close as he did! Bow up and stern down is better than bow down.. I don't think anyone here could have painted it better except by pure chance. Now.. that hatch thing... that is the dumbest idea I have EVER seen...


Bow / Stern ???? The whole thing is down, pretty equally. The only thing he has done right is paint a straight line. (in the wrong place)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Not all that down...


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

sailboy21 said:


> Not all that down...


Only the *MAIN* hull. Don't forget, the hatch is UNDERWATER.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

side note:

Every pic of that "boat" has the fenders still out, a testament to the accessibility of the amas, amak, amuk, ahuh??? (whatever they are called, SD help me out). See the pic of them scurrying across? More positive flotation out there? Inaccessibility is kinda scary too, particularly when those unkept turnbuckles are out there.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Remember the photos of those first aircraft carriers, where they built the flight deck up on pillers over the main deck of an old ship? Kinda like they weren't too sure how well the flight deck was going to do at sea, and they still wanted a real ship under it in case it "left"? That photo above kinda reminds me of those, without the ship under it. (g)


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Sapperwhite said:


> side note:
> 
> Every pic of that "boat" has the fenders still out...


Planned to help protect it when it finally becomes a fish habitat.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Report on the TinCan ....ya gotta read this!
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2008/dream on.htm
Our first impression had to be shock. Before the 'Tin Can,' we stood in stunned silence. .....


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> Report on the TinCan ....ya gotta read this!
> http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2008/dream on.htm
> Our first impression had to be shock. Before the 'Tin Can,' we stood in stunned silence. .....


WOW. My first command was a boat I built myself from a wooden skid, our new airconditioner got delivered on, with plastic milk jugs lashed to the underside for flotation. I think it was more seaworthy than Mr. Vann's creation and I was about 6yrs. old when I built mine.

At least Donald Crowhurst's boat still exists sitting in Triny.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*I had been waiting*

to see the trampolines installed..up to this point I havent been overly concerned of his mental state...now I am rethinking that...WHAT IS THIS GUY THINKING...if nothing else they would keep is running rigging from dragging in the water possibly fowling his rudder and what knot not to mention the obvious continual MOB climb the tether or drag till your drowned drill.
His Mother should be crying...


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## CalebD (Jan 11, 2008)

*Crazy like a Fox?*

Correct me if I am wrong (you know you want to!).
If his boat sinks on it's feet then he does not need an escape hatch. He can float away and swim home.
If his boat gets turtled then the escape hatch is facing the sky and he gets out of the cabin but still has to swim home.
Once a multi-hull of this size is pitch poled or turtled what are his chances of being able to right it again? This is no Hobi Cat we are talking about and even they are not that easy to get back on their feet once upside down.
"The Owl and the Pussycat went to sea..."


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Zero Chance*

They are more stable upside down...dosent mean it will sink though...we had a large cat wash up on the Oregon coast this Fall ...demasted ...no crew..but sound and albeit upside down..


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## rennisaint (Oct 25, 2007)

From my limited understanding, and please those with more experience correct me if I'm wrong. To right a large flipped multi you have two options. Flip it sideways or flip it frontways. To flip it sideways you must create some sort of rotational force. This is done on some tri's by either flooding one ama, or if it is folding, simply fold one in. This makes the boat unstable enough to allow it to be righted, probably with the help of a large tug or similar and a line attached to the opposite ama led over the main hull and pulled. The other way to right is ass over teakettle, which I've actually seen done with a 30' catamaran. Basically you hook a bridle up to the back of the flying bridge and hulls, lead it forward over the bow to a large boat. The boat then starts forward, the bows of the cat digg in and drive the forward end down under water and the hole mess does a somersault. When I saw this accomplished they had had a diver go under the boat and remove all the sails, etc. to reduce drag, but I'm still betting they had to replace a lot of standing rigging. I'm not sure how any of this could be accomplished on Tin Can, but I really doubt that turtling is going to be the problem on this particular vessel.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Ok*

Zero all alone in the southern ocean...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The only real way to flip a cruising size mulithull is fore-aft... any other way will probably damage the boat considerably, before it fails. 

The real problem I see with the Tin Can is the design of the Akas or crossbeams. On almost all trimarans, new or old, the crossbeams are parallel and perpendicular to the hulls... and set fairly far fore and aft. This is to help the crossbeams resist torsional loading on the boat, as the three hulls will often be in very different sea conditions at any given time, especially on a larger boat like the Tin Can. 

However, the Tin Can's akas are shaped like an X, and converge on the main hull. This means that the amas, or outriggers, have a considerable leverage advantage over the main hull when it comes to torsional loading, and I can see the akas failing, and the amas breaking off the boat as the akas fail. This would be bad...and leave him in a really deep pile of **** a very long way from any help. 

The forces that are going to be experienced by a 50'LOA x 30' beam boat in the Southern Ocean during the course of a circumnavigation are probably going to tear this hunk of crap apart. If any of his welds fail or the attachment points fail...this boat is dead...


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

The good news is the flotation is in the amas so we should be able to figure out why he sank by recovering them.


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## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

HOT OFF THE PRESS !

The coast gaurd has stoped The Tin Can .....Some one has donated a wiper assy from thier 74 chevette that was mearly sitting sitting in the side yard . Included in the "donation " is the switching with after market intermitint wipers. 
It is for the excape hatch !


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Bad assumption... you're hoping the floatation will be sufficient to keep the amas afloat, but I doubt the foam is really waterproof and it will probably absorb water, like a sponge, and if the amas are damaged or leak at all... they'll sink like a rock after the foam absorbs enough water. 



T34C said:


> The good news is the flotation is in the amas so we should be able to figure out why he sank by recovering them.


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## craigtoo (Aug 17, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> The forces that are going to be experienced by a 50'LOA x 30' beam boat in the Southern Ocean during the course of a circumnavigation are probably going to tear this hunk of crap apart. If any of his welds fail or the attachment points fail...this boat is dead...


Amen Brother...

I hope he doesn't have an EPIRB or anything that will alert the brave men and women of the Coast Guard etc.

This is irresponsible.


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## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

S-D 

Your very correct !
Even some blog of his mentoined they were useing spray foam .
its very much like a spounge


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## rennisaint (Oct 25, 2007)

> The forces that are going to be experienced by a 50'LOA x 30' beam boat in the Southern Ocean during the course of a circumnavigation are probably going to tear this hunk of crap apart. If any of his welds fail or the attachment points fail...this boat is dead...


Sorry, I've been working under the assumption we were trying to figure out what would fail before he got to San Diego, not the Southern Ocean.  You are giving him a hell of a lot of credit to presume that this thing would make it past San Diego without either (A) It falling apart or (B) Him falling apart from being slammed around because his boat has a flat bottom and there is enough exposed sharp cornered metal on that thing to make a knife factory impressed.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

If they had laid the interior of the amas with neoprene or some other very reliable close-celled foam, it'd be a different story... but filling the amas with spray foam is really stupid. One major problem I see with it... is you can't check the amas for leaks or how much water has actually gotten in. This is especially a problem if the amas are filled with a foam that is absorbing water. If one of the amas fills with a significant amount of water and it isn't detected, and the boat has that ama to leeward, the boat is very likely to capsize at that point...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Actually, I think he'll be lucky to get as far as San Diego. I hope he doesn't have an EPIRB-he'll be putting a lot of brave men and women at risk for his own ego's sake.

I would also be very surprised if he actually managed to come in at his $25000 budget for the boat, considering the cost of the furling unit and winches alone are probably almost 30% of his budget. Lia Dutton, who participated in the OSTAR a couple of years ago in a 35' trimaran, makes some very good points about the other, more immediate problems with the boat.



rennisaint said:


> Sorry, I've been working under the assumption we were trying to figure out what would fail before he got to San Diego, not the Southern Ocean.  You are giving him a hell of a lot of credit to presume that this thing would make it past San Diego without either (A) It falling apart or (B) Him falling apart from being slammed around because his boat has a flat bottom and there is enough exposed sharp cornered metal on that thing to make a knife factory impressed.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*In guy took thease*

shots today and posted to SA.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

He IS underway and out to sea. Forecast:

*TONIGHT*
N WINDS 15 TO 25 KT DECREASING TO 5 TO 15 KT THIS EVENING.
WIND WAVES 1 TO 3 FT. NW SWELL 8 TO 11 FT AT 14 SECONDS.

* FRI*
N WINDS 5 TO 15 KT. WIND WAVES 1 TO 3 FT.
NW SWELL 6 TO 9 FT AT 15 SECONDS.

* FRI NIGHT*
NW WINDS 5 TO 10 KT. WIND WAVES 1 TO 2 FT.
W SWELL 8 TO 11 FT AT 17 SECONDS. PATCHY FOG THROUGH THE NIGHT.

* SAT*
NE WINDS 5 TO 10 KT. WIND WAVES 1 TO 2 FT.
W SWELL 8 TO 12 FT. PATCHY FOG.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Is this the official start? If so that was one heck of a short sea trial...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

camaraderie said:


> He IS underway and out to sea. *Forecast*:


If I learned anything from sailing from San Diego to Alaska, it is that forecasts on the west coast have absolutely nothing to do with the conditions you encounter.. Fortunately for Mr. Vann he is going south.. It will indeed be interesting to see how his boat fares on his way to SD


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

It is a pretty boat. 

The half submerged hatch in the side is kind of ... exciting ... that's the best word I can think of for something that could turn a boat into an artificial reef. Is that one of Giu's photoshop jobs ? Please say yes.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

wind_magic said:


> The half submerged hatch in the side is kind of ... exciting ... that's the best word I can think of for something that could turn a boat into an artificial reef. Is that one of Giu's photoshop jobs ? Please say yes.


Read this:

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2008/dream on.htm


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

A lot of larger multihulls have an escape hatch in the bottom of the boat. IIRC, they're actually required to by ORC regulations on racing for the larger multihulls. This is so that the crew can get in and out of the boat if the boat capsizes.

Most multihulls, aside from the Tin Can which is of seriously questionable construction, *will tend to float even if turned turtle, since they're generally made of buoyant materials.* This is even more true of trimarans whose amas will are essentially sealed and even if a deck hatch on them is leaking, once inverted they will airlock and keep the water out.

On one trimaran I was sailing on about a dozen years ago, the boatyard hadn't screwed the speed transducer in completely, and we were out sailing in about 25 knots of wind with 4-6' seas. The speed transducer eventually loosened to the point it was letting water in and we only noticed when I went down below to get lunch. By the time we figured out what happened, we had about six inches of water in the boat, which made it sluggish but didn't really affect it other than that. 



wind_magic said:


> It is a pretty boat.
> 
> The half submerged hatch in the side is kind of ... exciting ... that's the best word I can think of for something that could turn a boat into an artificial reef. Is that one of Giu's photoshop jobs ? Please say yes.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> A lot of larger multihulls have an escape hatch in the bottom of the boat. IIRC, they're actually required to by ORC regulations on racing for the larger multihulls. This is so that the crew can get in and out of the boat if the boat capsizes.
> 
> Most multihulls, aside from the Tin Can which is of seriously questionable construction, *will tend to float even if turned turtle, since they're generally made of buoyant materials.* This is even more true of trimarans whose amas will are essentially sealed and even if a deck hatch on them is leaking, once inverted they will airlock and keep the water out.
> 
> On one trimaran I was sailing on about a dozen years ago, the boatyard hadn't screwed the speed transducer in completely, and we were out sailing in about 25 knots of wind with 4-6' seas. The speed transducer eventually loosened to the point it was letting water in and we only noticed when I went down below to get lunch. By the time we figured out what happened, we had about six inches of water in the boat, which made it sluggish but didn't really affect it other than that.


Thanks SD, that was really interesting, I didn't know much of that. I have never even been on a cat or a trimaran. I thought they floated when they turtled just because air couldn't get into the hull, actually. 

So you are saying that hatch is okay, that the boat won't sink ... (?)


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

_*A lot of larger multihulls have an escape hatch in the bottom of the boat.*_

His is not on the bottom, it is on the side of the hull, half submerged. (And not the right kind of hatch to begin with.)


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

T34C said:


> _*A lot of larger multihulls have an escape hatch in the bottom of the boat.*_
> 
> His is not on the bottom, it is on the side of the hull, half submerged. (And not the right kind of hatch to begin with.)


Actually, when SD says "bottom" I don't think he literally means the bottom of the hull. Usually the escape hatches are on the side of the hull, above the waterline whether the boat is inverted or not. On catamarans, for instance, the escape hatches usually are situated on the inboard side of the hulls, allowing occupants to exit to the bottom side of the bridgedeck (which would be the topside when inverted).

But you're right, the hatch should not be submerged in normal operating conditions either.

The more I think about it, this attempt would have been much more interesting if he had taken the $25K and bought a load of LEGOS from which he would build the hull. That's a feat I'd be willing to cheer for, heck I'll bet school kids all over the world would have donated blocks to the cause...


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

" As the trailer went back further, the Tin Can's stern sank deeper. The survival hatch was half submerged. The main hull forward chain plates were underwater. Then up she came with barely 3 feet of stern above waterline, the survival hatch still underwater. 'She's got to come out.' Kevin muttered in disbelief. 'That hatch isn't build for that. It will leak. It's probably already leaking.'

When the builder/owner says that...one can be assured that it wasn't part of the design plan!!


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

JohnRPollard said:


> The more I think about it, this attempt would have been much more interesting if he had taken the $25K and bought a load of LEGOS from which he would build the hull. That's a feat I'd be willing to cheer for, heck I'll bet school kids all over the world would have donated blocks to the cause...


I think we should start a campaign right now for Mr. Vann's next attempt, if he survives this one, to be in a boat made of Cherios lashed together licorice. It would be more likely to float and... If you're gonna have a dream, it might as well be sweet!


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

JohnRPollard said:


> ..... LEGOS ...












I'm already on it, plan on leaving in a few days. I just didn't want to make a big fuss of my departure, wish me luck.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

camaraderie said:


> " As the trailer went back further, the Tin Can's stern sank deeper. The survival hatch was half submerged. The main hull forward chain plates were underwater. Then up she came with barely 3 feet of stern above waterline, the survival hatch still underwater. 'She's got to come out.' Kevin muttered in disbelief. 'That hatch isn't build for that. It will leak. It's probably already leaking.'
> 
> When the builder/owner says that...one can be assured that it wasn't part of the design plan!!


I made the same mistake when I first read the piece, but "Kevin" is not the builder/owner. That would be David Vann. Kevin was some guy in yard watching the show that the writer quoted.

None-the-less, if Vann actually designed the placement of a deck hatch to be underwater, it only goes to show that he is remarkably stupid. If he didn't intend for it to be below the waterline, it shows that he is a poor designer. In actuality, he is probably both.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Fstbttms-

The survival hatch on a multihull is one that is on the hull side of the boat and is designed to be used if the boat capsizes, so you can still access the interior of the boat. Most multihulls will not sink, the Tin Can probably being the exception, since most are made of buoyant materials—usually balsa or foam-cored GRP laminate or cold molded wood.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Sapper-

Are you the one in the red hat or the black, and where'd you get your crew...they look like they're quite well trained and able to follow simple orders, unlike my crew, which is just simple and quite unable to be trained. 



Sapperwhite said:


> I'm already on it, plan on leaving in a few days. I just didn't want to make a big fuss of my departure, wish me luck.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Sapper-
> 
> Are you the one in the red hat or the black, and where'd you get your crew...they look like they're quite well trained and able to follow simple orders, unlike my crew, which is just simple and quite unable to be trained.


I'm the dashing looking fellow in the tricorn hat up by the helm. I got the crew from the "crew wanted" topic here on sailnet, believe it or not. They're a good bunch, do what I tell them to do. Sometimes they can be a little stubborn though.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Sapperwhite said:


> I'm the dashing looking fellow in the tricorn hat up by the helm. I got the crew from the "crew wanted" topic here on sailnet, believe it or not. They're a good bunch, do what I tell them to do. Sometimes they can be a little stubborn though.


Is that BF rowing the dink in his work uniform? or is he the one on the Bowsprit?


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Sapperwhite said:


> I'm the dashing looking fellow in the tricorn hat up by the helm. I got the crew from the "crew wanted" topic here on sailnet, believe it or not. They're a good bunch, do what I tell them to do. Sometimes they can be a little stubborn though.


If they get stubborn like that you just have to wiggle them back and forth with your fingers and then you can move them somewhere else on deck. If their feet come off, though, it's more trouble, so you have to be careful ...


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

sailingdog said:


> The survival hatch on a multihull is one that is on the hull side of the boat and is designed to be used if the boat capsizes, so you can still access the interior of the boat. Most multihulls will not sink, the Tin Can probably being the exception, since most are made of buoyant materials-usually balsa or foam-cored GRP laminate or cold molded wood.


I understand that and in fact have participated in inversion tests of similarly equipped Open 60s prior to a singlehanded, round-the-world race a few years ago. But as previously mentioned, a properly-designed hatch should be located in a place that is above the waterline regardless of whether or not the dirty side is up. Further, Vann has used a common, ordinary deck hatch as his "underwater escape hatch". Absolutely not designed to be submerged.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Fstbttms-

The main difference between what you saw on the Open 60s and what would be on a large racing/cruising multihull is that the hatches are designed specifically to be underwater most of the time and as low on the hull as possible, so that they are as high on the hull when the boat is capsized. Very often, the crew doesn't abandon ship in the case of a capsized large multihull. The larger multihull, although inverted is far preferable to a rubber liferaft. Having it where the hatch on the Open 60 you have posted a photo of is not a good idea, since the crew will often be going in and out of a capsized multihull.... not merely using it to escape being trapped in the boat prior to it sinking.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

"Kevin" is another guy in the yard building his own multi. Even the garage NA can figure out it's F'd up. Unless..... Mr. Vann put the hatch where it is knowing that the "boat" would likely turn turtle in the first 30 miutes where as the hatch would then be above the inverted waterline??????? See, he's really a genius.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

sailingdog said:


> on a large racing/cruising multihull is that the hatches are designed specifically to be underwater most of the time.


I cannot recall ever having come across any boat, regardless of number of hulls, that actually had a hatch underwater.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

fstbttms-

From the ORC site:



> 3.07.2	Escape Hatches, underside clipping points & handholds
> 
> a)	In a multihull of 12m (39.4ft) LOA and greater each hull which contains accommodation shall:-
> Mu0,1,2,3,4
> ...


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

_*iv when the yacht is inverted have each escape hatch above the waterline;
Mu0,1,2,3,4*_

Doesn't mean that the hatch is below the waterline when NOT inverted. In most boats, other than "Tin of Crap" there is suficient freeboard to install and escape hatch that is above the waterline while the boat is right-side-up, or upside-down.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

T34C-

If you've been on any of the multihull forums, and read about what happens on a capsized multi...the hatch placement is often placed to be as high as possible when inverted, which means it is as low as possible when right-side up.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

_*If you've been on any of the multihull forums*_
Why in the name of God would I want to do that???

_*...which means it is as low as possible when right-side up.*_
Makes sense, but underwater??


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

What does any of this have to do with the new subject of this thread, i.e. Sapper's circumnavigation in a LEGO ship? 

Sapper, I like the hull form and swashbuckling pirate theme. But we have all these surplus blocks the school kids are sending in, so why don't we start working on a way to retrofit some amas and akas, you know, give the boat a more polynesian character? Or maybe we could have several ships, a veritable armada, or maybe inject a bit of competition into this and make it a LEGO boat Around-Alone race with big prizes (SailNet burgee and discount coupons)...


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

JohnRPollard said:


> What does any of this have to do with the new subject of this thread, i.e. Sapper's circumnavigation in a LEGO ship?
> 
> Sapper, I like the hull form and swashbuckling pirate theme. But we have all these surplus blocks the school kids are sending in, so why don't we start working on a way to retrofit some amas and akas, you know, give the boat a more polynesian character? Or maybe we could have several ships, a veritable armada, or maybe inject a bit of competition into this and make it a LEGO boat Around-Alone race with big prizes (SailNet burgee and discount coupons)...


Throw in a t-shirt and I'm in. Of course having to start from the iced over Great Lakes might be a bit of a handicap.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

JohnRPollard said:


> What does any of this have to do with the new subject of this thread, i.e. Sapper's circumnavigation in a LEGO ship?
> 
> .....Or maybe we could have several ships, a veritable armada...


Did I mention my pals Ken and David are bringing their shipd too?


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Do I have to have the red strippy sails????


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

T34C said:


> Do I have to have the red strippy sails????


No, there's black stripes too. Sorry, no tanbark


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Unfortunately, I think Sapper has a better chance of circumnavigating in his Lego schooner than Vann does in his Tin Can.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Progess is being made rapidly on my new entry in the Lego Around Alone (LAA) With the new ruling allowing black strippy sails the crew are now hard at work with help from our new sponsor "Sharpie". Should be able to bend on the new sails very soon. Sea Trials to follow.








[/URL][/IMG]


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## LookingForCruiser (Feb 7, 2007)

Here's the escape hatch on a Lagoon 38 (from their web site). Looks to be a few inches above water.








</img>


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Good news, SD- has now decided to enter LAA also. He intends to dominate the event in his traditional multi-hull entry.








[/URL][/IMG]


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Check out: http://www.mocpages.com/ Wonders you can find -


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

Laughing LOUD!!!!!!

Jokes here are always funny, but man sometimes I can't stop laughing ...


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

Short straw gets foredeck duty?

"Yehr, them teeth can be tricky when the swell's up. But they do repel boarders, & you can snub docklines to em."


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Sapper-=

If you're going around alone, are you just throwing your crew overboard as you leave the harbor???



T34C said:


> Progess is being made rapidly on my new entry in the Lego Around Alone (LAA) With the new ruling allowing black strippy sails the crew are now hard at work with help from our new sponsor "Sharpie". Should be able to bend on the new sails very soon. Sea Trials to follow.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

That'd be Chuckles, not me...that's clearly a cat. 


T34C said:


> Good news, SD- has now decided to enter LAA also. He intends to dominate the event in his traditional multi-hull entry.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Sapper-=
> 
> If you're going around alone, are you just throwing your crew overboard as you leave the harbor???


I gotta eat something don't I? After all, my food storage areas are all full of foam.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> That'd be Chuckles, not me...that's clearly a cat.


SD- It's LEGO's, we can make it a tri-to-be-a-boat in about 30 seconds!


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Sapperwhite said:


> I gotta eat something don't I? After all, my food storage areas are all full of foam.


Foam???? I'm using old egg cartons and coffee cups. That way I can complete the whole project for less that $250.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'll believe it when I see it.  I don't think you've got the LEGO chops to do that conversion. 


T34C said:


> SD- It's LEGO's, we can make it a tri-to-be-a-boat in about 30 seconds!


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## T37SOLARE (Feb 1, 2008)

Just ran across this on latitude38.com 
www .latitude38. com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2008-02-15&dayid=73

_David Vann departed San Francisco Bay yesterday aboard his self-built 50-ft trimaran Tin Can. If you have been reading our reports in 'Lectronic Latitude, you will know that the 39-year-old writer and sailor hopes to sail this boat - which he built of aluminum plating and tubing in about 4 months - around the world non-stop. Originally, the plan was to start and end in San Francisco. Now, according to his website, he will stop first in San Diego to sort out any last-minute glitches before proceeding.

Vann upped anchor about noon from a spot off Sausalito YC where Tin Can had been parked since her launch and shakedown sail on Tuesday. He sailed out under the Golden Gate in light air around 1 p.m. About 3 p.m., two or three miles off Point Bonita (and very close to the Potato Patch, if not in it), Vann was approached by a Coast Guard 47-footer which requested that he return to the Bay for a safety inspection. Vann expressed disappointment, informed them he had no engine and that, in the light breeze, that would take awhile. After some more conversation (including an offer by photographer Peter Lyons to tow Tin Can back into the Bay), the Coasties radioed for another team to come out in an inflatable and do the boarding.

After about half an hour, the team declared "zero violations," and with a wish of "Have a good voyage, skipper," Tin Can was released. Vann immediately unrolled his jib and proceeded southwest in light breeze and lumpy seas.

As Vann departed, he indicated that the Coast Guard told him their inspection had been prompted by a number of calls from people reporting this "unsafe voyage," and some words to the effect of "Thank you, Latitude." We want to clarify to readers that we have tried to remain as fair and professional as possible in reporting on this story, and have given Vann every opportunity to speak directly with us. (He is prevented from doing so by an agreement with Esquire magazine, for which he is writing the story of this voyage.) We certainly have nothing against Vann and wish him only luck. That said, it's hard to remain completely impartial, especially when Vann himself creates a sense of extreme danger in writing about his plans - such as emphasizing that his naval architect quit because he feared for Vann's life. He certainly had to know folks would form strong opinions.

For the record, we did not have any communications with the Coast Guard about Vann. And, once again, we're not saying he can't or won't complete his voyage. We're just saying he would have to have incredibly good weather and luck to do it. We hope he does._


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

Hmmm. That's an intriguing philosophical question. If you finish your voyage singlehanded because you ate all your crewmates, does it count as a solo circumnav in the record books?

FWIW, Mr. Vann is apparently off and sailing. No update on the Esquire site as yet. Since he couldn't keep Naval Architects, Vann might have consulted the plastic surgeons (Navel Architects?) who constructed the site's "Women We Love": the vessel would still be too skinny, but at least it would have some rounded bits and more buoyancy up front.

Looking at the photos on SA, it's not clear if the headsail will even be usable on anything above a beam reach. Shrouds prevent close-hauling. It was flogging like the devil on his shakedown sail.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Well at least that answers any questions about his registration.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Just curious... how can Vann weigh anchor, when he's stated he's not carrying one... and that his boat has neither anchor or engine and is designed for the "open ocean".


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## JohnRPollard (Mar 26, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Just curious... how can Vann weigh anchor, when he's stated he's not carrying one... and that his boat has neither anchor or engine and is designed for the "open ocean".


A good samaritan stopped by a few days before launch and donated an anchor and rode to him.

However, this thread is now about LEGO ships, so please curtail the banter about Tin Can...


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

sailingdog said:


> If you've been on any of the multihull forums, and read about what happens on a capsized multi...the hatch placement is often placed to be as high as possible when inverted, which means it is as low as possible when right-side up.


I don't have to go on the multihull forums to know where the hatches are placed on production cruising cats. I see them every day from the water. The hatches are above the waterline. And while I don't maintain that the boat does not exist that has submerged hatches while she sits on her lines ("Tin Can" excepted), I have never seen one.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

And if a production boat has a hatch that's below the waterline, it will be one that's designed to be below waterline, not a lexan deck hatch.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Well I wonder if he is*

using his new anchor tonight in some cove somewhere ( is there one? ) or if he is really going for it.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

His plan is to run to San Diego and then make any fixes and depart from there.


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

camaraderie said:


> His plan is to run to San Diego and then make any fixes and depart from there.


San Diego, Santa Cruz .... More info soon, but it seems The Can was towed into SC Harbor by Vessel Assist after some major structural issues offshore. There's a promise of photos to come over on SA. Eighty miles down, 25,000 to go!


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

Fstbttms said:


> I don't have to go on the multihull forums to know where the hatches are placed on production cruising cats. I see them every day from the water. The hatches are above the waterline. And while I don't maintain that the boat does not exist that has submerged hatches while she sits on her lines ("Tin Can" excepted), I have never seen one.


I noticed that on the Lagoon 44 (I think it was the 44) that I took a seriuos look at a year or two ago. Kinda makes you nervous a little though, I would think... a hatch sitting like that so close to the waterline. You KNOW it is constantly gettting water running around it in weather. However, I can see the point of it from a safety aspect.

- CD


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Any bets on what broke... my guess is that the akas started to fail. 


bobmcgov said:


> San Diego, Santa Cruz .... More info soon, but it seems The Can was towed into SC Harbor by Vessel Assist after some major structural issues offshore. There's a promise of photos to come over on SA. Eighty miles down, 25,000 to go!


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

From SA...
Update from Surfcity Catamarans in Santa Cruz on Catsailor-
"Yep! It's right next to my shop. Full report coming. Snapped many pix. Major cracking where the crossbars attach to main hull. Vessel assist towed him in. He went 150 miles offshore and it started to break up.


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## KODAD (Jan 9, 2008)

He made it 150 miles!?!?! Amazing!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

The big dog scores again... I knew that aka setup on his boat looked lame...and have been betting that's the major weak point of the design.










camaraderie said:


> From SA...
> Update from Surfcity Catamarans in Santa Cruz on Catsailor-
> "Yep! It's right next to my shop. Full report coming. Snapped many pix. Major cracking where the crossbars attach to main hull. Vessel assist towed him in. He went 150 miles offshore and it started to break up.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Looks like we should start sending Lego donations ....


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Man, look at those welds! They're horrible! Uneven bead, gaps, ground down, too thick, not thick enough. I learned how to make better welds in 8th grade shop.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Also, those plates that are welded would have been better off if they were further outboard....to give them the greatest resistance to the lever arm provided to the amas by the x-shape of the akas. DUMB...DUMB...DUMB... 
You don't have to be a certified naval architect to see that his aka design plain out sucked... was incredibly dumb.

IIRC, the pipes are 5" in diameter...which means the akas have about 20-25" of distance, compared to the 30' or so of distance the akas are spread on the amas... meaning the amas have a 15:1 mechanical advantage over the mounting points....* Is it any wonder that the akas are where the hull started to tear???? *


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Its not only the overall design, but its the difficulty of welding aluminum. It doesn't have the same hardening properties as steel does. Its very easy to weaken it. You can't make welds like I see there and expect them to hold. I see several spots where the weld has multiple layers, and spots where there is no weld at all. I wouldn't trust those if it were a steel boat. I am in no way an expert, but what I remember is that aluminum welds have to be perfect. It is very easy to overheat and weaken the metal.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Some pictures are up now showing interesting stuff but not the weld failure yet. I believe the voyage is over for good. 

If anyone is interested the 1000day crew just hit day 300...and shredded their mainsail...and are gonna pull out their 25 year old backup main that "looked ok" six years ago. Oh yeah...there's also a cyclone headed their way in the next 4-5 days.


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## hphoen (Apr 3, 2003)

Cam,

Where are the photos posted?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Hud...scroll to the bottom of this page:
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=67651&st=0

ALL...BTW...our friend stillraining just made his first post over there! Hold onto your hats!! Don't tell 'em you have an I38 whatever you do 'raining!!


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Busted!!!*

I couldn't wait any longer for your pictures cam...and figured they would be right on top of it ...which they were...

Believe me.... I can not handle their language over there...But couldn't resist the correction I made...now regretting it already

41' Irwin Haters are they? ( Put me right up there with Mr. Vaun would they.. )

I wonder how many of that bantering crowd over there actually own a boat any way.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

You got off easy Rain. I think your post slipped by unnoticed. Of course I could rag on you, but I only have two more posts than you.


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

Stillraining said:


> 41' Irwin Haters are they?


If it isn't a skiff, a Mumm, or an Open 60, it's a "4-knot #*$%box". Nothing personal. Vigorous bunch over there....


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Bless you*

Im indebted....Drinks are on me..



bestfriend said:


> You got off easy Rain. I think your post slipped by unnoticed. Of course I could rag on you, but I only have two more posts than you.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Too vigorous*

for me Im afraid...and I dont even know what a Mumm is...so Im afraid you blokes are stuck with me...

Patients is a virtue so Im told...Ill just let cam fish it all out of um from here on out...



bobmcgov said:


> If it isn't a skiff, a Mumm, or an Open 60, it's a "4-knot #*$%box". Nothing personal. Vigorous bunch over there....


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

You have to give them credit over there tho - they have more photoshop experts than what Adobe probably employs....creative bunch ...


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Stillraining said:


> for me Im afraid...and I dont even know what a Mumm is...so Im afraid you blokes are stuck with me...
> 
> Patients is a virtue so Im told...Ill just let cam fish it all out of um from here on out...


Yeah, I like it here too. Besides, you guys keep buying me drinks. Hey Cam, can we replace the Rep points with drink points?


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Sure What are*

*Bestfriends *fore anyway...


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## bobmcgov (Jul 19, 2007)

Stillraining said:


> for me Im afraid...and I dont even know what a Mumm is...so Im afraid you blokes are stuck with me...


Mumms in action. It's a boat for type-double-A personalities: You just know there's a skipper watching the knotmeter tickling 20 and screaming at his crew, "More speed, you lazy sacks of #$&%! Faster!" OTOH, bet your boat doesn't spend that much time with its mast in the drink.

ETA: Do you think we could build a Mumm out of Legos?


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

Those must come with *gimbaled* drink holders.


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Oh shyte, I can't feeakin' breath. gimballs.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

bestfriend said:


> Hey Cam, can we replace the Rep points with drink points?


SD can you donate some points to me, my friend?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Raining...the secret is to LURK...especially on Fridays!!


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Been reading Tin-Can over at SA. Some say we have been tough on Vann, They are worst.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

denby said:


> Been reading Tin-Can over at SA. Some say we have been tough on Vann, They are worst.


I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but after seeing pictures of the welds close up it is obvious to me that this guy is either very....aw crud I can't say it. I think he rushed things to get a new book written to make more money, bottom line.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*So thats a Mumm...*

30 years a go I would have been gung-ho for it...But your right... I prefer dryer sticks now...


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

OK here's the picture of the weld that failed.









Credit to Jeremy at www.surfcityracing.org


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## T37SOLARE (Feb 1, 2008)

Looks more like a solder than a weld... I'm amazed it survived the launch, yet alone 80 miles in the Pacific.

Bet you his SeaTow bill put him over and out on his budget.


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> OK here's the picture of the weld that failed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am not sure it can fail when it wasn't right to begin with.


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## cardiacpaul (Jun 20, 2006)

he just forgot "plan B"
bobby pins, duct tape and go-rilla glue


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

a lil JB-Weld should fix that


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Probably should of taking dogs's advice and used heat shrink with adhevise built in on that.... Cam - do you really think SPAM will fix that?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

*Cam - do you really think SPAM will fix that

*Jody...you've obviously never tried to stick a fork in a piece of day old spam. Plaster it on that joint and I guarantee that in 24 hours it will be stronger than Vann's welding job!!


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

As bestfriend says, that never was a weld. If that's indicative of the job, the whole boat needs to be re-welded. (to what purpose?) You can see the lack of penetration on where the weld is missing and the slag just broke off. For some reason, I was under the impression that he'd had a welder to assist him. Maybe it was just to show him how to weld, initially. There are a lot of experienced welders out there that don't touch aluminum; as BF says, it's a bit of an art, even after you've the knowledge.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Sail - he did have a welder with him to help... polish the 12-pack. Welder dude was there for the free beer  As evident -welder joked "Hey save on the solder use the beer cans instead!!", unfortunately Vann Dude thought he was serious...


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

At least we know his next book won't be "The Art of Aluminum Welding".

Look at all the gaps, nasty overlays, and uh, blobs for lack of a better word. Did he really look at that and say "good enough for me".

Once again, there is a difference between coloring outside the lines and this. This isn't eccentric, this is quasi functional retardation.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BF-

I'm happy to donate some rep to anyone brave enough or stupid enough to point out their wife's weight gain on a public internet forum... since I don't expect you to live long enough to use 'em.  



uspirate said:


> SD can you donate some points to me, my friend?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Welding aluminum properly is a serious copper-plated b!tch. And most of the strength of marine grade aluminums comes from the tempering and heat treatment that they undergo, and is generally ruined when you weld the stuff. BF is right, those welds are crap to begin with, and then throw in the nature of the material he's using, which wasn't marine grade aluminum or anywhere as strong as a good marine grade aluminum, and then add the stupid design's inherent weaknesses, what else could have happened.

Vann should have had the akas parallel...and go across the boat about 7-10' in from the bow and the same up from the stern, and made them a from a single piece, rather than two separate pieces. This would have at least evened out the forces on the akas, and not concentrated them in a section of the main hull that is only 4' x 4' at most.

Finally, the welds are far more prone to corrosion problems than the unwelded sections... although I doubt that this boat will last long enough for the corrosion of the welds to be an issue. 



bestfriend said:


> Its not only the overall design, but its the difficulty of welding aluminum. It doesn't have the same hardening properties as steel does. Its very easy to weaken it. You can't make welds like I see there and expect them to hold. I see several spots where the weld has multiple layers, and spots where there is no weld at all. I wouldn't trust those if it were a steel boat. I am in no way an expert, but what I remember is that aluminum welds have to be perfect. It is very easy to overheat and weaken the metal.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

The funny thing is this dumba$$ spent $25,000+ to go about 80 miles. Not exactly getting his moneys worth. It works out to $312 per mile. Think how much he could have saved if he had just taken a cab! Hell, he could have have bought a car (new) driven the 80 miles and then sold the car at a substanial loss and still not spent half as much money. And he would have been just as close to accomplishing his goal as he is today!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Actually, from what I understand, since Vann can't navigate all that well, he went 150 NM to cover the 80 NM distance...so his costs per NM are probably more like $170.  But the last 32 NM were under tow by Vessel Assist, the west coast version of TowBoat US...and probably a good deal more expensive than the previous 120 NM.... 

I'm also wondering whether it actually could qualify as salvage or not. Technically, salvage requires that the boat be in danger of sinking... and the Tin Can definitely was in danger, since if the amas broke off...she'd capsize and probably sink almost immediately, so did Vessel Assist cut Vann a break and call it a tow, or was it really only a tow and not possibly salvage.



T34C said:


> The funny thing is this dumba$$ spent $25,000+ to go about 80 miles. Not exactly getting his moneys worth. It works out to $312 per mile. Think how much he could have saved if he had just taken a cab! Hell, he could have have bought a car (new) driven the 80 miles and then sold the car at a substanial loss and still not spent half as much money. And he would have been just as close to accomplishing his goal as he is today!


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Actually, from what I understand, since Vann can't navigate all that well, he went 150 NM to cover the 80 NM distance...so his costs per NM are probably more like $170.  But the last 32 NM were under tow by Vessel Assist, the west coast version of TowBoat US...and probably a good deal more expensive than the previous 120 NM....


I hope he's a BoatUS unlimited tow member like me. I have a feeling that the $120 or so membership fee wasn't part of the plan though.


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Actually, from what I understand, since Vann can't navigate all that well, he went 150 NM to cover the 80 NM distance...so his costs per NM are probably more like $170.  But the last 32 NM were under tow by Vessel Assist, the west coast version of TowBoat US...and probably a good deal more expensive than the previous 120 NM....
> 
> I'm also wondering whether it actually could qualify as salvage or not. Technically, salvage requires that the boat be in danger of sinking... and the Tin Can definitely was in danger, since if the amas broke off...she'd capsize and probably sink almost immediately, so did Vessel Assist cut Vann a break and call it a tow, or was it really only a tow and not possibly salvage.


Actually, if you count the 40 NM of towing separately and just count the other 110 NM as actual miles put under the boat under it's own power, at 227$us/NM the towing was probably cheaper.

Joking around aside, it will be interesting to see what happens next, if this is the end of the attempt or not.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Actually, from what I understand, since Vann can't navigate all that well, he went 150 NM to cover the 80 NM distance...so his costs per NM are probably more like $170.  But the last 32 NM were under tow by Vessel Assist, the west coast version of TowBoat US...and probably a good deal more expensive than the previous 120 NM....
> 
> I'm also wondering whether it actually could qualify as salvage or not. Technically, salvage requires that the boat be in danger of sinking... and the Tin Can definitely was in danger, since if the amas broke off...she'd capsize and probably sink almost immediately, so did Vessel Assist cut Vann a break and call it a tow, or was it really only a tow and not possibly salvage.


One question: Would you want to salvage that POS???


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

T34C said:


> One question: Would you want to salvage that POS???


I think scrap aluminum prices are doing pretty good lately.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

I was a Metals Processing Specialist in my brief stint in the Air Farce (yeah, I'm retired Navy, but also former Marine and USAF). 

The weld didn't fail, the welder did. That is what we referred to as a bubble gum weld (string bubble gum over a joint and you get the idea). None of the tricks of the trade for making a proper aluminum weld was made - no beveling, no multiple beads, no corrosion prevention. 
He obviously did not know what he was doing, and just as obvious had no competent inspection done - either of his welds or by a structural engineer to calculate the stresses involved and whether the design was capable of meeting the forces placed on it.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

chucklesR said:


> ....That is what we referred to as a bubble gum weld (string bubble gum over a joint and you get the idea).....


I think the fine people at Wrigleys would have some words for you


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Chuckles—

You don't need to be a structural engineer to know that the damn thing isn't up to resisting the loads placed on it. The amas have a 15:1 lever arm advantage over the main hull aka mounting points, due to the x-shape of the akas... that alone told me that the damn thing was going to have problems with resisting the loads of sailing, much less the Southern Ocean.

As for salvaging the TinCan... there's probably a lot more money in chopping the boat up and selling off parts of it on e-Bay... you could get someone to authenticate that they're actual Tin Can parts, and probably make a lot more than the boat is worth as scrap.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

You don't have to be a structural engineer, know how to weld, or know about the 15:1 lever, all you really have to do is look objectivly at the Tin 'o Crap.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

BTW, apparently the SS Tin Can is headed back to SFO... There was a thread about the Captain Vann leaving the harbor this morning, courtesy of a Vessel Assist tow...


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## sharkbait (Jun 3, 2003)

1


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

sharkbait said:


> According to Latitude 38 they didn't tow him back.They only boarded him for a safety inspection.


Vessel Assist towed the Can out of Santa Cruz Harbor and turned him head-to-wind so he could raise sail and get underway. He was not inspected by anyone upon his departure from there.


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

According to today's 'Lectronic Latitude, Tin Can Vann is bringing his boat back to the Napa yard where he built it to do the necessary repairs and modifications and will make another attempt at his circumnavigation next year.

http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2008-02-18&dayid=74#Story2http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/LectronicLat.lasso


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

Well there is chapter three of the book, Sway could help write it but it would end up bigger than the bible.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

SimonV said:


> Well there is chapter three of the book, Sway could help write it but it would end up bigger than the bible.


Think more like "War and Peace".


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## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

I ve 
been out for awhile ... Did Mr. Vann make it to mexico yet ?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Danny..short version...left SF...went 80 miles...welds broke...towed back in 3 miles to Napa...left to go back to SF and wait till next year...but has yet to arrive...expected tomorrow.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

While we wait for Vann's return to SF...the 100dayer's are off Western Australia drifting around with a shredded main. A Cyclone w/ 90mph winds is 800 miles north and headed in their direction...slowly. Should kick up some big seas even if it does not reach them as a full fledged cyclone. No word from them over the last 2 days since the mainsail shredded.


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## Danny33 (Nov 21, 2007)

Thanks Cam !

Just My sence of humor !

I caught up with it !
With all the fighting about whos right ,wrong....
Egos on the prowel....I just stayed out of all of it !

It was day light ...It was all wrong , the design ,welds ... bla ...bla ...
David Vann is still with us its all good !
I just get a charge out of some people when the smoke all cleared ... look what we found !


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Danny-

Actually, it really goes like this:

Vann leaves SFO, gets confused due to lousy navigational skills and sails 150 NM to get to a place only 80 NM away... has some badly done welds start to fail due to poor technique and lousy design of the boat and gets towed 32 miles into Santa Cruz. Wants to repair the welds while tied up to the fuel dock but can't get enough power to use his arc welder.... and then decides to head back to SFO. Gets towed out of the harbor by Vessel Assist, and then proceeds to sail back to SFO.


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## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*Cam*



camaraderie said:


> While we wait for Vann's return to SF...the 100dayer's are off Western Australia drifting around with a shredded main. A Cyclone w/ 90mph winds is 800 miles north and headed in their direction...slowly. Should kick up some big seas even if it does not reach them as a full fledged cyclone. No word from them over the last 2 days since the mainsail shredded.


I wonder if NASA would be willing to do and air drop of some new sails...after all they will be learning so much from this experiment...


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

...but the REALLY big news is that our Dawg attempted to enter the fray with rational discourse over at SA and was quickly trashed....fired back and was trashed again! Thus his AFOC status here is further enhanced!!


----------



## Stillraining (Jan 11, 2008)

*I feel*



camaraderie said:


> ...but the REALLY big news is that our Dawg attempted to enter the fray with rational discourse over at SA and was quickly trashed....fired back and was trashed again! Thus his AFOC status here is further enhanced!!


Luckier then ever now.... I Haven't been back as promised...


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

Dog was getting me confused with all that SFO stuff; I couldn't figure out why he'd tow Tin Can out to the airport. (g)


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

What welds? Those cross members look like they are made out of 6" PVC sewer pipe. Probably didn't clean the pipe before gluing it. After all, is was built from material from Home Depot, and they carry a lot of PVC pipe material...


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## sailaway21 (Sep 4, 2006)

SimonV said:


> Well there is chapter three of the book, Sway could help write it but it would end up bigger than the bible.


This from a man that took six paragraphs just to get his mainsail up!


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## SimonV (Jul 6, 2006)

sailaway21 said:


> This from a man that took six paragraphs just to get his mainsail up!


Touché Sway, I can't compete with your literary genius.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

SimonV said:


> Touché Sway, I can't compete with your literary genius.


Sway used to be a cross between a technical writer and a ghost writer for Charlotte Hughes....hence his discrepancy between writing fact for fiction or lack thereof...


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## bestfriend (Sep 26, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> ...but the REALLY big news is that our Dawg attempted to enter the fray with rational discourse over at SA and was quickly trashed....fired back and was trashed again! Thus his AFOC status here is further enhanced!!


Yes! At least I had the foresight to pick a different screen name over there. 
My favorite post on SA was the guy that asked if there was already a record for the first sailboat to be towed around the world.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

bestfriend said:


> Yes! At least I had the foresight to pick a different screen name over there.
> My favorite post on SA was the guy that asked if there was already a record for the first sailboat to be towed around the world.


lol - I have no option I get tired of reminding my different personalities what my name really is less what a board name should be...I am still hoping Parker Brothers will pick up on that tho - its my retirement plan...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

This thread is entirely too genial to be called an "argument"...I'm so disappointed in you AFOC's...mostly what I see here is widespread agreement that Capt. Kirk or whatever his name is is just a special "Yes, I did inhale...where did I leave that bong" kind of stupid. Tsk. Tsk.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

DJEVANS said:


> This thread is entirely too genial to be called an "argument"...I'm so disappointed in you AFOC's...mostly what I see here is widespread agreement that Capt. Kirk or whatever his name is is just a special "Yes, I did inhale...where did I leave that bong" kind of stupid. Tsk. Tsk.


I have never hit a bong, a woman, or a writer in the thinking process of writing this message but I did hit another 12 pack...bongs are so over valued...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

artbyjody said:


> I have never hit a bong, a woman, or a writer in the thinking process of writing this message but I did hit another 12 pack...bongs are so over valued...


Kudos, Jody. I have never hit a bong, or a writer...can't say I've never hit a woman...but only in self defense  (_another_ 12 pack?!) And I thought your post in the AFOC threaded sounded a wee bit TUI.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

DJEVANS said:


> Kudos, Jody. I have never hit a bong, or a writer...can't say I've never hit a woman...but only in self defense  (_another_ 12 pack?!) And I thought your post in the AFOC threaded sounded a wee bit TUI.


Just watch what happens in the SA tin can thread...

I am on the 24 pack now...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Well allllllllrighty then. That was edifying. Never been to SA before. Learned a new word even! Yay! LOL by the way, your last post cracked me up. On that note, I just turned into a pumpkin and am going to roll off to dreamland.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Ooof...Jody...your ellipses are showing!!


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

BTW, the 'chuckles' on SA is not me.
I'm ChucklesR anywhere I go


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

chucklesR said:


> BTW, the 'chuckles' on SA is not me.
> I'm ChucklesR anywhere I go


I'm sure there's a joke there somewhere...


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Any word on the whereabouts of Tin o Crap?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

He was just towed back in to Vallejo...the end of the saga...or is it??  Stay tuned...this time nex year.


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## T34C (Sep 14, 2006)

Damn, there goes all the fun.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Shall I hold my breath?


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## Giulietta (Nov 14, 2006)

THIS IS BS....

want to see a REAL ONE????? Web pages and sponsors are words this guy doesn't know...

Click here


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

DJEVANS said:


> I'm sure there's a joke there somewhere...


I never, ever joke about chuckles.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Except when you're chickles.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

chucklesR said:


> BTW, the 'chuckles' on SA is not me.
> I'm ChucklesR anywhere I go


Yeah...we knew that...the guy on SA is smart an good looking!


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

As opposed to intelligent and charming.  I'll take what I've got.


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## Sapperwhite (Oct 21, 2006)

camaraderie said:


> ...but the REALLY big news is that our Dawg attempted to enter the fray with rational discourse over at SA and was quickly trashed....fired back and was trashed again! Thus his AFOC status here is further enhanced!!


I believe the throwing about of "ass-hat" had something to do with it. (note hyphen)


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Truth hurts..


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## denby (Feb 21, 2007)

Dog,

I checked SA and could not find your post, can you link to it?


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## wind_magic (Jun 6, 2006)

So whatever eventually happened here, did he decide not to keep sailing, or did he leave, or what happened ?


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## Fstbttms (Feb 25, 2003)

wind_magic said:


> So whatever eventually happened here, did he decide not to keep sailing, or did he leave, or what happened ?


"Tin Can" suffered some weld failures almost immediately after leaving the Bay on the shakedown cruise to San Diego. Mann pulled in to Santa Cruz to attempt repairs, which he was unable to complete. He then sailed the boat back to the Bay Area and back to the Napa Marina where he presumably will modify the boat in an attempt to circumnavigate again next year, or so he says.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Given the really stupid ama design... not really surprised by the weld failures. If you give a 50' ama 10:1 leverage over a 15'+ lever, what do you expect to happen.


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## byrondv (Jan 6, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> Given the really stupid ama design... not really surprised by the weld failures. If you give a 50' ama 10:1 leverage over a 15'+ lever, what do you expect to happen.


And if that wasn't enough - lets not forget the quality of those welds 

I thought I was a bad welder... At least I wouldn't trust my welds for something like that...


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