# My boat held captive by the housing crisis!!!



## SiXeVeN (Jul 7, 2007)

For about 2 years I have rented a very nice private slip/lift from a homeowner who did not have a boat himself. His house had a 25,000# lift that enabled me to lift my boat (keel and all) out of the drink. It was a great setup.

HOWEVER, apparently this guy has suffered some sort of financial meltdown and has fled the state. All of his utilities are shut off. Here's the rub...

MY BOAT IS TRAPPED ON HIS LIFT. Without power, I can't lower the boat.    

I can't call him as all his phone numbers are disconnected. I don't even know if he plans on returning to Florida! I can't believe this guy would flake out, and if he was in such trouble, why he would have at least not given me the heads up to collect my boat before he lost power.   

Mainly just wanted to vent but if anyone has any suggestions on getting a boat off a powerless lift, I would love to hear from you. I'm thinking a generator with the leads hardwired into the lift control box....maybe


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Sixeven,
Wow... This is what I would call a unique problem. Can you call the electric company and have the electicity turned on for a minimum amount of time? I'm guessing you've already thought of this... and that he's in arears with them?


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

get/borrow a honda generator and power the lift, even if you have to disconnect the power leads. 

Just do it, legal crap latter.


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## CharlieCobra (May 23, 2006)

Yep, easier to ask forgiveness than permission for things like this.


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## SiXeVeN (Jul 7, 2007)

Yeah, I called the Electric company myself. Of course they couldn't discuss his issue and couldn't connect his power even for a few minutes. I even asked if I could pay to have the electric reconnected in my name and then re-disconnected. Again, No, as they needed the homeowners permission. 

I have thought about the generator but this is a HEAVY DUTY lift. 4 LARGE electric chain drives. I'm not sure if a portable generator would provide enough umph. Not to mention tearing into the control box to hardwire the setup. I would imagine there might be some sort of legal issue with cutting into his dock power lines. 

Besides, I could just imagine some cop walking up to me mid-proceedure and asking "Sir, what are you doing.... Do you live here?" Uhhhh! No sir but I SWEAR this is my boat!

Boat thief... Caught in the act... News at 11:00!!!


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## wchevron (Oct 19, 2007)

i agree with chuckles. i'd also move the boat to another slip. you don't want the bank coming to take the house and have your boat get tied up in some legal dispute with them since it is at the house/slip. i'm sure it isn't a big deal since you have the title and everything but why put up with the hassle if you don't have to.


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## wchevron (Oct 19, 2007)

call the manufacturer of the lift. there may be some way to manually work it without power.


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## eMKay (Aug 18, 2007)

If you were local to me, I would come over, put on some black clothes, repower the lift, and drop your boat for you. But I'm not. BTW, just because it can lift a huge amount of weight, doesn't mean it takes a huge amount of power. It could be something simple like a 3hp electric motor (like the one in my giant 33gal compressor) it's easily powered by a 3000 watt generator.


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## SiXeVeN (Jul 7, 2007)

> you don't want the bank coming to take the house and have your boat get tied up in some legal dispute


AAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!! I DIDN'T THINK OF THAT!!!!!!!   

I have the boat title and it would probably not be an issue but who knows. Maybe he is in arears with his utilities. Maybe they could try to file a lien against ME just to try and get their money.

I HAVE GOT to get this boat off the lift ASAP!


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

chainsaw? axe?


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Sixeven,
Just remember: You aren't doing anything illegal since it's your boat. Maybe you should bring your registration with you when you do whatever it is you need to do... My point is that no reasonable person is going to think you're a boat thief. Good luck!


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Yes. Better move the boat quickly.

I expect that the boat lift requires very little current. There should be a placard on it that identifies the current requirements. 

I would guess that a portable generator would take care of it, or even a friendly neighbor with an extension cord.

Hire an electrician. Should cost you less that a $100. Cheap insurance.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Oh... and... This will be funny some day


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I think Wchevron has the best suggestion. I'd also highly recommend you have your title to the boat as well as your rental agreement for the slip/lift with you when you do this. 

As a last resort, if the manufacturer of the lift can't help... you might want to contact a lawyer and have them draft a letter to the lift owner saying that your boat is being held illegally or something to that effect and that you will proceed with suit for damages and compensation for loss of use of the boat if he doesn't arrange for the power to be restored long enough to release the boat. You'd have to talk to the lawyer to get the exact terminology for your state correct.


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## SiXeVeN (Jul 7, 2007)

Anyone in the SW Florida area want to go on a special ops mission with me??? 

Operation Ships Ahoy.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Motor's all have amp ratings on them. Look for them, and or the circuit breaker to get a max load, then get enough genny's to make sure.
Genny's are cheap compared to losing your boat.


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## KODAD (Jan 9, 2008)

I'm on the beach in ft. myers--i'm an electrician and have a generator--should i dust off my camo's?


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## AdamLein (Nov 6, 2007)

Another option is to rent or build a crane. How big is your boat?


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## speciald (Mar 27, 2007)

The 30,000 pound lift I had ran on 240v. Look at the labels on the motors (you may have to take the covers off).


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

KODAD said:


> I'm on the beach in ft. myers--i'm an electrician and have a generator--should i dust off my camo's?


Yes. You should.

Rep points for you if you do it.

I'd bet that you probably could go way undersize on the generator, since you are only releasing the brakes and overcoming winch friction.

Heck, you might even generate some electricity and find extra gas in your generator's tank when you're done


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## KODAD (Jan 9, 2008)

i could rig the motors to run on one phase if they're 240v--go a little slower but wont hurt the motors---


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## N0NJY (Oct 19, 2008)

CharlieCobra said:


> Yep, easier to ask forgiveness than permission for things like this.


I'm a "It's easier to ask forgiveness than get permission" guy.

If he FLED he is leaving your boat in this BAD position, then screw that "crap"

Go to a rental place, disconnect his crap, hook up the generator and take your stuff back.

(Just make sure you get some witnesses, and make SURE it's YOUR stuff you're taking!)


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Don't know if I'd try and run a 240VAC lift on 120VAC. I'd want to make sure that the brakes released fully, or you might spend quite of time monkeying with it.

You want to do this quickly and easily, even though you are in the right here.

Besides, you want to raise the lift up again when you are done so as not to trash it..

I'm sure that the OP would be happy to pay the rental fees for the proper generator.

Time to get the placard information from the lift and/or manufacturer data and get 'er done!


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## SiXeVeN (Jul 7, 2007)

Kodad, 

I may take you up on that!

I figured I would scout out the scene this weekend... Talk to neighbors, check out motor amperage, check out the accessibility of the lift power box, etc.

If it looks pretty simple, I may be able to tackle it myself. 

Just in case, you should keep the camo nearby. Operation Ships Ahoy may be greenlighted if the situation goes FUBAR

"Miss Snip" must be freed from her airborne prison!


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## KODAD (Jan 9, 2008)

where is your boat located?


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## SiXeVeN (Jul 7, 2007)

In all seriousness. 

Unfortunately the homeowner is completely MIA. His cell and landline are both disconnected. He has apparently left out of state and clearly isn't living in his old home. There is no way to contact him.

Soooo, I think I could be justified (in the eyes of the court) to use whatever means necessary to get my boat off the lift. But, I need to exercise caution that I don't damage his dock or lift. I don't need to give a desperate guy, who is clearly in dire financial straights, an excuse to file a lawsuit and attempt to pick up a few bucks.

Kodad,

The boat is in Cape Coral in the Palaco Grande neighborhood. Off a direct access canal to the river.


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## RickQuann (May 27, 2005)

I'm with the "ask forgiveness later" crowd. Rent a generator, hire the electrician (if you need one) and splash your boat. The homeowner really should have given you the heads up before going MIA.


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## KODAD (Jan 9, 2008)

It really should be no problem. I'm not actually suggesting a middle of the night covert action, just helping a boat owner get his boat off a lift. It would take a second to figure out how to do it safely, leaving the lift in the same condition in which it was found. I might even have a slip availible for you.


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## SiXeVeN (Jul 7, 2007)

KODAD,

I'll try and check it out tomorrow and see how challenging it may or may not be. I'll report back here with the findings.

You said you may have a slip. Does it have a lift?

I have a wet slip that I can use but I would rather use a lift. That system worked out quite nicely with keeping the bottom clean. However, I may just put the boat on the hard so that I can get her bottom painted and then use the wet slip I have. 

However, I can worry about all of those issues once I am FREE from THIS LIFT!


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

All legalize aside but not really. While the odds are not in the favor of the guy trying to come after for the boat lift if it does get damaged... Placing a call to the Sheriff's office and simply ask them to to be present when it is done - will go a long way in avoiding the legal issues down the road if they were to happen. You never know - and as long as you have the title + rental agreement - they will probably be more than happy to sit around for the hour it takes. At least this way you can have it legally documented and forgo some of the nastiness that could (but most likely not I admit) happen later..

Just my two cents in the matter - good luck with it.


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## wchevron (Oct 19, 2007)

i wouldn't worry about calling the sheriff. they may not let you on the property since you don't own it. i'm assuming you have had the boat there for a while so it shouldn't be a surprise to any of the neighbors that you are at the slip working on your boat. if any of them question what you are doing, you can just tell them you are trying to get the boat down & the lift doesn't seem to be working, so you hired an electrician, in camo's & face paint, to help you.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

wchevron-

As a legal tenant of the slip, he probably has the legal right to access the property, especially if he is trying to recover his own property from it when the owner of the lot is MIA.


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## wchevron (Oct 19, 2007)

sd
i agree, but typically with the law/legal system, nothing seems to move as quickly and effortlessly as you would like or as it should.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Ain't that the truth.


wchevron said:


> sd
> i agree, but typically with the law/legal system, nothing seems to move as quickly and effortlessly as you would like or as it should.


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## RXBOT (Sep 7, 2007)

*Manual release*

There is a very good chance you can release the brakes and lower it manually. But it could be iffy as it may run away and drop too fast. It probably doesn't require much effort to lower it. Would be nice if you could get a hold of someone that services these lifts.


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## Delirious (Dec 16, 2001)

Cable cutters. It's easy to get a boat *down* without power. Gravity does all the work.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Wow. My sympathies. I'm hauling out tomorrow in a rainstorm but I'm worried about _you_.


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## seabreeze_97 (Apr 30, 2006)

*Do what it takes.*

Many welding supply centers rent portable welders that kick out 10,000 watts, with availability in 120/240 volts. Rent something like the Miller 301. They have gas or a "D" model for diesel. The 301 or newer 302 will kick out all the power you need in a handy 50 amp package. They're big, meaning you need a pickup, though some also come mounted on their own small trailer. That'll resolve any power issues, and well worth it for a the rental fee. Take your registration, and if you even get noticed, explain the situation. Whatever you do, get your boat. Wish I were closer, I'd bring mine.


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## sww914 (Oct 25, 2008)

There should be a tag on the electric motor of the lift that states it's electrical requirements. It should say something like 120V 14A or whatever. 120 volts X 14 amps = 1680 watts. If it draws something like that few amps, that's easy. I have a 25# Honda generator that produces 1000 watts that I bought at a yard sale for $50.00. You should be able to rent a generator at any tool rental or u-haul yard that will do the job, you just need to figure out what your requirements are.


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## sander06 (Sep 18, 2003)

I'd attack the lift directly. You don't say if the lift is hydraulic or what, but I'd either loosen something or cut something to get the mechanisms going to drop the boat. I would also plan ahead so you're not fooling around experimenting too long at the site. Just do it and go.

You know darn well that somebody trying to steal the boat could get the boat in the water in no time. Think like a thief for a minute!!


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## AlanBrown (Dec 20, 2007)

Six,

Have you thought about contacting a lawyer? Your boat is tied up in a financial/legal mess and it is entirely possible that it could be seized by a creditor as part of a foreclosure action. Even if you can prove ownership, it could take months for a court to return possession to you.

It's long past time to get seriously worried about this and fully investigate your legal options.

Good luck!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Don't damage the lift... cutting cables or hydraulic lines is likely to get you into a lot of trouble. While you have the right to get your property back...you don't have the right to destroy his.


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## SEMIJim (Jun 9, 2007)

AlanBrown said:


> Six,
> 
> Have you thought about contacting a lawyer? Your boat is tied up in a financial/legal mess and it is entirely possible that it could be seized by a creditor as part of a foreclosure action. Even if you can prove ownership, it could take months for a court to return possession to you.
> 
> ...


Agree 100%.

You don't know the status of this property. It's possible it's not even owned by the guy anymore. It may be a bank's, other creditor's or somebody elses property by now. I doubt the sheriff's dept. is going to be willing to go onto the property with you and _may_ tell you not to.

If there's no foreclosure notice on the propertty and the neighbours know who you are, it's _probably_ pretty safe to go get your boat. Otherwise I think you need a lawyer to at least find out the status of the property before doing anything.

I would also agree that you don't want to do anything to damage the lift.

Jim


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## Slayer (Jul 28, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> wchevron-
> 
> As a legal tenant of the slip, he probably has the legal right to access the property, especially if he is trying to recover his own property from it when the owner of the lot is MIA.


I agree. I wouldn't call a lawyer and I am a lawyer. Keep this simple, just go get your boat. Do it in the middle of the day and you won't even be noticed. Doing it in the middle of the night will draw suspicion. And don't call the sheriff, they will tell you not to do it. And they definately won't come down there for you and sit and watch you do it. They don't want to get in the middle of some questionable legal mess.

Get someone who knows what they are doing to come down with a generator and help you out. Its your boat, you have right of access per your agreement with the property owner. And you probably have implied, if not express, permission to use the lift.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

I'm thinking black rubber dinghies and night vision glasses and an 0-dark 5:00 insertion. 

Really...just go get your boat and have the necessary paperwork on you. The cops have better things to do than to mess with legitimate property owners getting their own property. Rent a Honda generator and let the cables down.


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

I would second the "middle of the day" approach. No one cares and noone will notice. Just don't make it look like a huge operation, even if generators are required - come, install, connect, use. Don't rush and don't hide - be nice to people around if anyone comes by or asks, though chances are if you do it on a weekday - no one will give a damn. 

I also don't see how the boat would come up in any legal dispute. It is your boat, you have the legal title and landlord does not. Moreover, bank that now owns (or soon will own) the house does not have any info on your boat so unless they find it there and put a seal on it or something - what they don't know they can't take.


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## painkiller (Dec 20, 2006)

Sounds like a good excuse to get a nice, shiny new boat. Your wife will understand. What could you do? You HAD to.


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## Brezzin (Dec 4, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> Don't damage the lift... cutting cables or hydraulic lines is likely to get you into a lot of trouble. While you have the right to get your property back...you don't have the right to destroy his.


bet ya that the property is probably the banks now and not the original owners. I would do whatever your gonna do and do it quick.

Edit : already said by Brak


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

" You aren't doing anything illegal since it's your boat."
Well, from this layman's point of view? Bringing a floating crane alongside to lift the boat off, would be legal. TOUCHING THAT LIFT, especially in any way that damages it or leaves parts submerged or unsecured, might be ILLEGAL. Necessary, but illegal. 
I'd side with practical caution: Carry the papers with you (lease & title) but first contact the lift maker, or a local distributor (I'll bet there is one) and find out what has to be done to drop that boat back into the water. Then just do it--with the minimum of damage or invasion to the lift itself. Take a friend--so one can drive the car away after re-raising the lift, while the other takes the boat away. Promptly.

If the homeowner fled town, or was hit by a bus and is lying in a coma someplace...it doesn't matter why he's not there, sending legal letters won't liberate the boat. Suing may only turn up the fact that he's judgement-proof.

Best and fastest, is to contact the local distributor and the lift maker, and liberate the boat, quickly and quietly. If anybody asks? You've got the right papers, the lift is stuck, you're just fixing it so you can go sailing. 

BTW, generators can be RENTED from a tool or construction rent-all place. You may need a trailer hitch to tow it--but they're readily available.


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## merc2dogs (Jun 5, 2004)

I'm with the stay away from the police crowd. Not anti-police, just know they have a way of turning simple operations into complicated issues.
I've had a car and motorcycle stolen at seperate times, both of them I found on my own, the car I tried to do it right and went to the police with the info, had to follow all the legal steps, prove it was my car (how many pearl blue 1964 fairlane 500 sport coupes set up like a thunderbolt with racing stripes and '#27 bonner racing' painted on the side are there?), get a warrent etc. Took three months before I got just the shell back, then had to pay the state for two months storage. With the bike I just walked up with a buddy and took it back, all I got from the police was a lecture that I should 'follow legal procedure' 

It's your boat, you have an agreement to use the property/lift do what you need to do to get it out.

Check specs on the lift, I did a quick check and most I found state 220v and 20 to 40 amps, well within the range of larger 'home owner' class generators. Find the breaker box and tap in after the lift breakers, turn them off to avoid backfeeding, otherwise you may start running everything in the house. 

Ken


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## UrbanChicago (Jun 26, 2007)

I don't think it's a good idea to do it in the middle of the night. People that notice call the police when you are acting suspicious. Be bold. It's your boat, you own it, you have a valid rental agreement to use the lift and access the property, etc. Do it in the middle of the day, and do it right - no damaging the lift or other property. Don't be bashful or secretive.

If you're not willing to do that, then hire a repo company to do it for you. Nobody is going to question them.


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## SiXeVeN (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks everyone for the advice. 

I went back to the lift today and spoke with one of the neighbors. He seemed to think the homeowner was returning on Mon or Tues to pick up some personal items. I figured I would catch him at home and get his thoughts on the matter. At the very least, I could get a note or letter stating I had permission to be on his property and to work on his lift. Best case is he gets his power reconnected and I drop the boat and i'm OUT OF THERE....Bye Bye!

BTW, the lift manufacturer stated there is NO manual way to lower the boat. It is designed to lock up when power is off. 

Also, the lift is 240v. Each motor is 30 amps and there are 4 of them! I have my own portable generator but it may be tight with the amperage requirements. I'm hoping the generator won't have to supply full amperage as I will have gravity assisting me. It may be enough just to power up and release the brakes. 

First, lets see what the homeowner has to say. he was always a friendly guy so I will give him a little leeway. That, of course, assumes that he IS RETURNING on Mon/Tues.

If that is fruitless then plan B is a middle of the day, call out some neighbors, everyone in smiles, generator assisted, boat rescue. I do NOT want to damage his lift as that may cause legal issues I don't need.... But, I think any reasonable disassembly to assist getting the boat down would be acceptable.

I'll keep you guys updated on the debacle.


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## j34035 (Nov 10, 2006)

My vote is you go and get your property as quickly as possible, even if you have to rent equipment and hire people to help get it done. Also, dont sneak around to do it. If there are court orders and foreclosures in progress, you could get your property tied up for a long time, and could even end up costing you legal fees. Get out as soon as you can, I would not even wait on the owner for one day. Some one is owed money and they will tie up everything of value they can to recoup what is theirs. Just my thoughts.......
DD


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## Joesaila (May 19, 2007)

Never give anyone in authority the opportunity to say 'no'. Either get a generator, take the electrician up on his generous offer or get a marine transport company to move it. But act quickly and in broad daylight. Its your boat!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Even if the homeowner comes home--if his power is off, the power company won't turn it on again without money, probably ALL the money that he owes them.

But that probably does give YOU an option: I fthe guy shows up, YOU place him under citizen's arrest--literalyl and physically, on the spot--and have him charged with grand larceny. Dunno what the rules are in FloriDUH, but "wrongful retention" of a registered motor vehicle is a felony offense in many places. He can be taken to jail and left to explain it at a bail hearing--if he doesn't want to release your boat on the spot.

Sorry, but if someone "wrongfully retained" my boat? Yeah, I', spike his damn feet to the ground until he UNretained it and apologized for wasting my time.

If you miss the chance to have hiim arrested and detained--odds are he's gone and you'll be back to months of work getting power up and the boat down. Speak to a criminal lawyer, or to someone at your own precinct (no need to let HIS precenct know what's about to come down) and try to find out what options FL gives you. Then pick the biggest stick, and use it.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

HS-

that's the term I was thinking of earlier...WRONGFUL RETENTION.


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## sander06 (Sep 18, 2003)

I bet if you video taped this whole hootenanny, you could make a fortune at the local movie theaters!! Wow...


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

BTW, if he wasn't missing for too long and electric company payments aren't too high yet, you could always call them and pretend to be him, apologize, pay off the bill and have power back on. Then get your boat off the lift and hide


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

We haven't had an update - I think he tried the cammo approach, got caught and is now being forced to be a sheep to men...


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## patrickrea (Aug 20, 2007)

30amp draw would be while the lift is fully loaded and moving upwards fighting gravity. A Honda 5000SX generator would easily power the lift downwards plus it has a 240v output. I use one as backup power for my water system, fridge and stove at the cottage.


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

If he is not already imprisoned in a sheep herders paradise.. All it takes is _ take number of lines that hoist it (bet four)... bolt cutters... like synchronized swimmin all cut at the same time - splashdown err launch...


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I don't see any legal gray area here at all. It's your boat and you have the title. Just go get it just like you normally would, in the middle of the day.

If it was hand cranked lift there would be no issue. Since it is an electric lift, and you're bringing your own electricity to power it, there should also be no issue.

However, you might very well consider having a qualified electrician do the tie-in and button the unit back up when you are done. You DO NOT want to energize any of the household circuit that feeds the lift (you could potentially damage household circuits or power company equipment, or it could even electrocute a lineman). Hire the electrician properly and get an invoice to prove that you did. It may turn out to be a prudent investment at a future date.

I agree that you should get your boat first and leave discussions for later.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Get your boat the hell out of there and quickly.
Get a generator and hot wire the junction box, or cut the damn cables, or whatever is needed.
Check that the wires are not hot.
Do not play by the rules of others on this one.
If it's your boat, recover it, and quickly.

Take a picture of the junction box and motor and post it here. Don't have the picture include the detail of the boat or the site. A grinder will make short work of the cover and the lock. Or the power cable can be cut with bolt-cutters, and the wires exposed where they enter the motor housing or junction box. When they are exposed, you can connect your generator output there. Check the voltages... don't risk burning the motor.

The lifting cables are under load right now, and probably a locking device is stopping the drums rotating. Power is not necessary to keep it locked, though it may be needed to unlock it.

The house owner has cared nothing for you. You owe him nothing.

Don't bring the boat title with you when you do it. Keep that one elsewhere, but have a friend stand by at home close to the 'phone ready to bring the title if the law arrives.


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## sander06 (Sep 18, 2003)

artbyjody said:


> We haven't had an update - I think he tried the cammo approach, got caught and is now being forced to be a sheep to men...


Too funny!!!!!!!!!!


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

So any update on this?


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## mrwuffles (Sep 9, 2008)

Rockter said:


> Don't bring the boat title with you when you do it. Keep that one elsewhere, but have a friend stand by at home close to the 'phone ready to bring the title if the law arrives.


what is the logic behind not bringing the title of the boat if your just gonna have a friend stand by with it i must be missing something but ya any update?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

ROCKTER-

Bad advice all around IMHO.

If he damages the lift, the box or the electrical cables, he's vandalized the property and in legal trouble regardless of his right to recover his boat. Also, if the police were to show, and he has damaged the lift, box or electrical cables, they'll probably arrest him on the presumption that he is trying to steal the boat. Even if he hasn't damaged the lift, box or cables and the authorities show, if he takes your advice and leaves the title elsewhere, he may be in jail before his friend can arrive to prove that he owns the boat-*however that likelihood goes way up if he's taken your other advice. *

Finally, unlocking a lift that is supporting a 12,000 boat without taking the proper precautions is a good way to end up damaging the boat or getting damaged by the boat... and possibly damaging the lift-none of which are in the OP's best interests.


Rockter said:


> Get your boat the hell out of there and quickly.
> Get a generator and hot wire the junction box, or cut the damn cables, or whatever is needed.
> Check that the wires are not hot.
> Do not play by the rules of others on this one.
> ...


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## 121Guy (May 6, 2007)

*Hostage?*

Look at this a little differently. Suppose there weren't any known issues with the landlord. Suppose you had just purchased the boat and now needed it moved. There are a lot of ways to do that. One way is to hire (I know that means spend money) someone to do it for you. It can then be their problem as to the removal method. Perhaps they can deal with the existing lift, perhaps they would figure out some other way to move it....crane on barge...who knows. This puts the owner out of the picture and puts a professional in it. Are you a BoatUS member? Have you tried to speak with their local TowBoat guy?

If it were mine, I would go there in the middle of the day and try to determine how to make the lift work for a one time use then be gone. There does not need to be any sneaking around or obfuscation. This is still the United States and we are still allowed personal possesions and have the right to use them.

Good luck!

121 Guy


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## dealweb (Apr 24, 2007)

I'd play the dumb act because for me that is easy to do. Just go down there to get your boat and if anyone asks just go "What? The Home Owner is being foreclosed on? I was wondering why there wasnt' power down here at the lift thus the need for this generator..." blah blah blah.


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Well, if you bring the title, and some thug turns nasty, and they get the title from you....????

Saildog, what's your advice?

Does he just leave it swinging there?

Cut the cables, connect the generator to it, and get your boat out of there. If the boat goes missing beforehand, you'd better hope the bank's taken it, then hope again they haven't sold it.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

There's no need for playing dumb... the OP has a right to operate the lift he has rented/leased, even if he has to bring his own generator along to power it.

If he goes during the middle of the day, and is open about what he is doing and doesn't damage the lift, the electrical wiring or the box, and gets his property down into the water and returns the lift to the out of water position, no one can complain.

He does, IMHO, have a responsiblity to return the lift to the out-of-water storage position so that it doesn't get damaged, even if the landlord has been a bit less than responsible in this whole mess.

Rockter-

If the landlord has a thug there... call the cops... he's illegally restraining the OP's property... the cops would have to arrest the thug... You can always leave the title locked up in the car... if they try to break into the car, that's clearly breaking the law...

You're making a pretty off-base assumption that the landlord or someone else would care to prevent the OP from retrieving his own property, which is unlikely to be the case.

If the bank's taken the boat and sold it...the bank is going to be guilty of theft... and the OP has a pretty good case for a lawsuit for much more than the value of the boat. *Given how litigious the USA is in general, most banks aren't going to touch property unless they've got a very clear legal claim to it. *


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## J36ZT (May 18, 2008)

We still haven't heard anything and are all wondering how things are going.

This advice (worth just $0.02) is for when you do get your boat back.

1) Keep any receipts you have for anything it took to get your boat back in the water. In reality, the guy you rented the space from should reimburse you. Good luck collecting! But, it could be used as leverage should he try to get any additional money from you.

2) Check and make 100% sure there are no liens against your boat. Do this again in six months.

We all hope everything has turned out well!

Skipper, J/36 "Zero Tolerance"


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## KeelHaulin (Mar 7, 2006)

Or you could put a lien on the property for the replacement value of the boat!! Maybe you will end up with the boat AND the property if you play your cards right!! (J/K)


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## Neicy (May 10, 2005)

I used to rent apts and it was where you could cut that tag they hang on the meter, pull the upside down meter and turn it right side up which used to turn the power on, lower your boat, then turn the meter upside down again. You will be long gone whenever that power might get turned back on. Dont know if it still works like that but worth a try. Between tenants the power company just came out turned the meter upside down and put a metal tag on the meter case. Then when the apt was rented they came back, cut the tag, flipped the meter, retagged it and the new tenants had power. Worth a try. Take a look and see if the meter is upside down.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

That meter trick would be called "theft of services" in most places, and the power company would come looking for someone to charge. Many of them are also smart enough to cut the power further upstream, i.e. either disconnecting the lead at the pole or at a main breaker, to ensure "jonny squatter" can't easily get it back on again.

I suppose if you had to do the meter trick...putting a new seal on it and sending them an anonymous postal money order for a couple of bucks ought to get the theft of services charges dropped.<G>


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## brak (Jan 5, 2007)

I don't think power company would bother looking for someone for a measly 1 kw*hr (what, 20 cents?). "Theft of services" often goes unnoticed even when the bills are $100 or more a month, and certainly intermittent power use and broken seal won't really mean much. It is fairly expensive to investigate for a 20 cents worth of loss.


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## rigs (Apr 7, 2001)

Powerboat and a chain???


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

Take a picture of the lift and post it on here.
I am puzzled as to how you will get the power to the motor without tearing something up to allow access.


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## KODAD (Jan 9, 2008)

We haven't heard from the OP for a couple days, so I am assuming things worked out for him. I offered my services for free (well, I was going to try and get a daysail out of it). I own a local marine construction company and am an electrician and it would be very simple to rig my generator to the disconnect box and power up the lift without the need to tear anything up. It would take 5 minutes. No need for bolt cutters, face paint, or stealth technology. The fact that some posters would damage someone else's property when there is no need to is a little disturbing.


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## KODAD (Jan 9, 2008)

Also, I have a CCW permit, so I'm not worried about any 'thugs'.


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## T37SOLARE (Feb 1, 2008)

> it would be very simple to rig my generator to the disconnect box and power up the lift without the need to tear anything up. It would take 5 minutes. No need for bolt cutters, face paint, or stealth technology.


Where's the fun in that???

In all seriousness, the OP need's to get his boat out of there before the bank attaches it to the property. If I'm not mistaken, once a property goes into foreclosure, the bank owns not only the property but all it's contents. I assume that would include the sailboat hanging off the lift in the back yard.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

That would certainly help in dealing with thugs... 


KODAD said:


> Also, I have a CCW permit, so I'm not worried about any 'thugs'.


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## kai34 (Jul 16, 2008)

so what ended up happening?


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## Rockter (Sep 11, 2006)

This is a no-brainer. You either retrieve your boat, or you go to your lawyer to do it.

You can even borrow the money from the bank if you cannot afford the lawyer yet.

Best wishes, one owner to another.


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## SiXeVeN (Jul 7, 2007)

*Update!!!*

Hi all,

Thanks for all the advice and comments. I got word from his neighbor that the homeowner was going to be in town. I managed to meet up with the guy but unfortunately, he was unable to afford to turn the power back on. He apparently owes over $900!!!

He had no suggestions for getting the boat down but at least expressed sorrow for putting me in the middle of his situation. I kind of feel for the guy...His world has totally collapsed. He offered to help but there was not much he could do and he would likely have just gotten in the way.

Soooooo. What I did was this. I had him give me a written note, signed and witnessed, that stated I could use "whatever means necessary" to recover my boat.

I was going to just cut the power inlet cable as it exited the dock and use the generator idea. However, a buddy of mine had an idea for using his battery bank and power inverter. I didn't really think it would work but it was easy enough to try. I had him bring his boat along side and we ran a cable from his inverter to the power box. It was not enough to operate the motors but it was enough to disengage the brakes. The lift immediately came down about 1.5 feet (WAY too quickly for my taste) but then ground to a halt. Then a combination of my buddy hopping on the lift crossmember (Not the smartest safety maneuver) and me giving each motor gear assembly a little 'english' with a large pry bar.....We got her down!!!!

The lift was not destroyed and my baby is back on the open seas again.

I guess i'll have to return my C-4 shape charges, Zodiac, and night vision gear. I had my watch synchronized and black face paint all ready to go. Operation Ships Ahoy has been scrubbed.

Now the reality of no more lift..... a haul out and new bottom paint


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## artbyjody (Jan 4, 2008)

Glad to hear it went without major incident  Thanks for the update...


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Good news...  Thanks for the update.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Congrats and we appreciate you letting us know what happened!


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## J36ZT (May 18, 2008)

SiXeVeN,

We're all glad to hear the rescue went well.

I still think it would be prudent to insure there have been no liens placed against your boat. As the lien process can sometimes take months to complete, checking again in six months is also a good idea. A simple phone call will make sure some bank employee didn't try something stupid (and illegal).

Skipper, J/36 "Zero Tolerance"


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## eherlihy (Jan 2, 2007)

*Congratulations* on successfully navigating this new and uncharted hazard.

- Ed


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## POLKA247 (Apr 15, 2008)

WOW! What a gret read and great turn out. Well done!


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## sailhog (Dec 11, 2006)

Oh, this kind of thing happens all the time. A thousand... no ten-thousand... no... one-million times a day... no big deal. Super common. Happens all the time.

Sixeven, sounds like a good set up while you had it. Wish you coulda splashed some bottom paint on there before you splashed.


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## djodenda (Mar 4, 2006)

Great news!

Thanks for keeping us posted!

David


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## PalmettoSailor (Mar 7, 2006)

Yep, I've been watching this tread hoping for a good outcome.

Congrats on getting your boat back with only minor inconvinience and no real ugliness.


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## Boasun (Feb 10, 2007)

The future ownership of a boat is now in Triple crisis.... 
1. the Housing crisis
2. the Banking crisis
3. the Stock market crisis...

Aside of the above I am okay! Says me, as I limp heavily away from all of the wreckage above. 

A sense of humor is necessary in today's world... For you may not have much else.


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## xort (Aug 4, 2006)

SiX
Did you leave the hoist down in the water? It could get damaged in some way if you did. Can you re-hoist it out of the water?


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## SiXeVeN (Jul 7, 2007)

Yes, the lift was left in the water. The homeowner is aware. There is no way to lift it without power. If the homeowner wants to mess with a generator that is his issue to work out. He still technically owns the property (for now) and he gave me permission to remove my boat by whatever means necessary.


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## stagew8t (Jul 13, 2000)

it's not that difficult, but since it seems you don't have much electrical background, you should hire someone to bring in a generator (probably doesn/t need to be too large). The tie-in to the junction box is not too difficult, just takes a little time. I'm guessing 1 hour from arrival on site to cleanup.

Do contact the manufacturer and ask if there is a manual overide first. Don't tell him the whole story - there is only the need to find out about the manual overide. If that is not an option, get the specs for power load requirements so you know what size generator to get. The load for lowering is a lot less tha hoisting it out!

You can check with a local electric supply house for an electrician, or, being a stagehand myself, I'd check a local theater for someone that does power tie ins. You can look for an I A T S E office (stagehands union) for some contact names or a qualified electrician. Or go to a boatyard and hire one of their guys - they know this stuff, too.

When you go to do this, have ALL your boat paperwork handy so IF someone asks what you are doing you can prove ownership. Most likely NO ONE will ask, just be prepared in case.

When you are done raise the lift up & have the electrician seal things back up tight - no point in letting in any water or letting the machinery get mucked up from being exposed.

And you'll have some place new to go to as soon as you are back in the wqater, right? No need to tempt fate and keep the boat there for someone to include in a seizure. They really are not gentle when they do their work. And the hassle factor for claiming your boat is enormous, and to frost that cake you'll be guaranteed to have REPAIRS out the ying yang.

Not trying to scare you, just trying to get you going to avoid any more problems.


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## kai34 (Jul 16, 2008)

congrats on getting your boat back!!!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

YOu obviously missed the post where he already RECOVERED HIS BOAT...

:laugher:laugher


stagew8t said:


> it's not that difficult, but since it seems you don't have much electrical background, you should hire someone to bring in a generator (probably doesn/t need to be too large). The tie-in to the junction box is not too difficult, just takes a little time. I'm guessing 1 hour from arrival on site to cleanup.
> 
> Do contact the manufacturer and ask if there is a manual overide first. Don't tell him the whole story - there is only the need to find out about the manual overide. If that is not an option, get the specs for power load requirements so you know what size generator to get. The load for lowering is a lot less tha hoisting it out!
> 
> ...


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