# Blue Water Capable Boats (Not a Cat 30, I promise)



## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

I spotted a thread on this forum titled Circumnavigate Catalina 30, which was a great discussion about the capabilities (and maybe more importantly, the limitations) of a Cat 30. I've recently joined a yacht club in Southern California with a fleet of Cat 30's--very nice boats, and the attractive pricing easily leads one to start dreaming of purchasing one for extended voyages. But whenever someone suggests such an idea in forums like these, the responses are always pretty consistent: The Catalina 30 was just not built for offshore passages. If I spent days searching these types of posts, there's always some scattered opinions of suggested alternatives for such an endeavor, but it's usually someone recommending some obscure boat that they've happened to decide is a great offshore cruiser. 

Is there any place (any other posts, perhaps) that one could find a list of blue water capable boats in the 30-38 foot range that are designed for the open ocean and limited crew, sometimes single-handed? Is there an equivalent to the Catalina 30 (i.e. mass produced, commonly available, and relatively low cost compared to more custom yachts), that is intended for blue water? The common suggestion to people trying to make ocean passages in a Cat 30 is, "Forget it and buy a boat that was designed for your intended purpose." So what boats would fit the bill?


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Have you looked at the bluewater boats lists in posts #6 & #8 here?
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/buyin...fshore-cruising-boat-list-january-2008-a.html

Lots of what you are looking for listed there.


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## aa3jy (Jul 23, 2006)

Serious cruisers on serious boats..I'd look here for good info...

The Seven Seas Cruising Association - Home

Regards,

Clay AA3JY
Cabo Rico 34


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

sailcalculator provides a list of boats with user defined specifications. Capsize ratio and motion comfort are important criteria for me. But mass produced boats are usually coastal cruisers designed for the most beds and the least cost. I met a couple who circumnavigatedin a Pacific Seacraft Orion and they said that they had a great time. Sail Calculator Pro v3.0


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## Freerider (May 1, 2008)

MoonSailer said:


> sailcalculator provides a list of boats with user defined specifications. Capsize ratio and motion comfort are important criteria for me. But mass produced boats are usually coastal cruisers designed for the most beds and the least cost. I met a couple who circumnavigatedin a Pacific Seacraft Orion and they said that they had a great time. Sail Calculator Pro v3.0


Great link, I've been looking for something like that for a while. I guess all I had to do was ask.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Thanks for all the quick responses. Definitely some good info. 

Incidentally, I just ordered a copy of "Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat: A Guide to Essential Features, Handling, and Gear" by John Vigor. So hopefully there's some decent information in there as well.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

You might also want to look at *James Baldwin's Boat list* of pocket bluewater boats. While most are smaller than you're looking at, there are a lot of good boats on the list.


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## flashingbrine (Apr 5, 2009)

Aesir said:


> Thanks for all the quick responses. Definitely some good info.
> 
> Incidentally, I just ordered a copy of "Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat: A Guide to Essential Features, Handling, and Gear" by John Vigor. So hopefully there's some decent information in there as well.


This is a *great* book, and you should find it very helpful. Vigor also wrote a book titled something along the lines of Twenty Small Boats to Take you Anywhere that describes 20 bluewater boats up to around 32' or so. The list is, of course, not a definitive one, but it would give you a good idea of what features to look for.


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## davidpm (Oct 22, 2007)

sailingdog said:


> You might also want to look at *James Baldwin's Boat list* of pocket bluewater boats. While most are smaller than you're looking at, there are a lot of good boats on the list.


I couldn't get the above link to work for me but adding the www did the trick.
Atom Voyages | Voyages Aboard the Sailboat Atom - Good Old Boats List - choosing a small voyaging sailboat


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## TQA (Apr 4, 2009)

Would I sail an 18 footer built of 1/4 inch plyaround the world - NO - but Shane Acton did. Get the book he wrote called "SHRIMPY".

It is a great read! and reassuring when you have worries about your boat size.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

camaraderie said:


> Have you looked at the bluewater boats lists in posts #6 & #8 here?
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/buyin...fshore-cruising-boat-list-january-2008-a.html
> 
> Lots of what you are looking for listed there.


I'm a little bit embarrassed that I didn't find this link before posting, but this is a great little resource--especially for browsing.

It's pretty apparent that there is an ongoing debate about the virtues of comfort (heavy displacement, full keel) vs speed. I like tweaking the sails and trying to get maximum speed, and would enjoy a faster boat. On the other hand, you can only enjoy sailing so much when your girlfriend is hanging off the side of the boat, feeding the fish. puke) And when you're on a boat for an extended time, the interior layout and stowage becomes increasingly important. I'm curious if there are any particular boats that are generally thought to have made a clever compromise here...


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Yes, but Swans cost a million bucks.

I think you need to determine your sailing goals first, because "offshore" is an extremely nebulous term that embraces anything from sailing beyond sight of land, to being able to heave to in storm conditions (whether inshore or not) to having the capacity to store food and water for a few weeks, to providing a plush ride. Think of "offshore" boats as forming a Venn diagram of maybe five or six circles. One of those circles will fit your sailing goal, and in that circle will be a fairly arbitrary but anecdotally and design-specifically demonstrated list of boats.

An example: "Offshore" in the Caribbean might emphasize shallow draft over stowage, and plenty of opening ports for ventilation, and a big cockpit with a swim platform on a sugar scoop stern for the frequent eating and boozing at sundown, and a dedicated compartment for the dive tanks...maybe even with a compressor!

"Offshore" in Patagonia might include sealable dorades, doggable doors instead of dropboards, a constantly running diesel heater, an oversized windlass and five anchors, a ridiculously overbuilt arch with 300 foot reels of stern line to spiderweb the boat in williwaw-prone fjords, and the sort of salty rowing tender Larry Pardey would enjoy.

And it would be steel. And you would get your weather reports from 8,000 NM away. And you would be able to perform minor surgery and have a bilge full of eight-month old tinned goods for your dinner.

And yet both boats are "offshore". Define the trip, and there are people here who can help you define the boat.


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## mccary (Feb 24, 2002)

How about the mid range J Boats, J-35 or even J-40. Not Swan like in cost but from what I have read, seaworthy.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Joe, you've got to watch J/boats. As they will be the first to tell you (and they are glad to get calls & emails, nice folks) many of their boats (most of their boats) are built for flat-water racing. Built light, to be fast. And sometimes "nimble" which means they need a hand on the tiller at all times. Then there are models built with next to no engine or interior, rigged for larger crews with running backstays and other design features that work great for racing with large crews--but not for short crews passagemaking.

Horses for courses, and all that fine stuff.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

mccary said:


> How about the mid range J Boats, J-35 or even J-40. Not Swan like in cost but from what I have read, seaworthy.


J-Boats are great sailers. I like J-Boats. But as I posted, I wouldn't consider them offshore due to tankage issues and seakindliness unless I was prepared to wait for the right weather windows. As with most J-Boats (except, rumour has it, the J/80), if you have a big crew of young people willing to sleep in their foulies and to eat tinned stew and cereal bars, the boats are up to it. If not, (and I know this might be a minority opinion), I think their suitability as liveaboard, long-haul cruisers is less than that of other boats. I think the J/160 comes close, but that is a hell of a lot of boat for the "typical" 50 plus cruising couple, unless they are ex-ocean racers, maybe.

I put the larger J-Boats in the same league as the Sagas and some others: real "performance cruisers" that are generally tough enough for the ocean, but maybe too tough for the typical short-handed crew on multi-week passage during which you might encounter any type of situation.


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## Jim H (Feb 18, 2006)

Fly over to the UK and buy the largest Rival you can afford (32, 34, 38, 41). They make boats over here to withstand strong winds and rough seas on a regular basis, and it shows.


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

Roger Marshall's book on sailboat design might be of some help. Weight is important for comfort. My 323 pearson weighs 12,500#s and I don't think that I would want a lighter boat offshore. Lighter boats bounce around more than a heavier boat of simular design. Heavy and narrow makes for comfort. Beamy and light makes for a lot of motion. This is fine for a few hours on a sunny afternoon. But midnight after a day at sea the last thing you want is to be thrown around the boat by every wave.
Sailboat Design and Stability

This link might help.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Valiente,

I can appreciate the term "offshore" is relatively vague, but it was somewhat intentional given that this discussion is educational for me at this point as I haven't determined a route or typical desination that is as specific as your examples. Just to give you an idea, I was thinking of "offshore" in the sense that the boat would be:

1. Suitable for enduring the storms, heavy seas, and high winds that one could potentially be subjected to when located many miles from any nearby land.

2. Have a reasonable amount of stowage capacity for the essentials needed on an extended journey. 

3. (This is the most subjective) Be able to accomplish this in relative comfort (which would probably knock the 18-footers out of contention). 

But if you were to really press me for a specific route, I would say a circumnavigation, avoiding the Panama and Suez Canals and opting for going around Cape Horn and the Cape of Good Hope, simply for the sake of argument. It's interesting to hear people's opinions on different manufacturers of boats and their pros and cons. I'm familiar with the aspects of a boat that represent a tradeoff in one direction or the other, but I'm not familiar enough with the many manufacturers and what type of configuration they represent. But it is more interesting when the discussion centers on the more affordable boats (relatively speaking anyway). But I did do a search for Swans and found some older ones for under $100k...


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Avoiding the Canals? OK, you're in pretty rarified waters. Subscribe to Ocean Navigator and look at some of the circumpolar voyagers. You want a a different breed of boat, not necessarily a production boat, although the OVNI range of French aluminum hulls is capable of these trips (see Jimmy Cornell's writings).


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

What about a similar comparison of production boats for coastal-crusing-plus-an-occasional-storm kind of thing? Giu did a good write up about Cats/Benes/Hunters after the Chicago boat show, and I've seen CD comment several times with some good info - but I've not seen a solid discussion of this around here. It's always kind of "blue water versus production". The thread might be buried somewhere - but I'm freakin' lazy. Any bread crumbs?

If not, let's fire one up, boys!


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Virtually any decent production boat should hold together in a storm of limited duration, but the record isn't always great with some of them that have had structural failures (rudders snapping off or bulkheads detabbing when the hulls flex).

Part of the problem is that it is difficult in confused seas to get a light displacement (comparatively), modern, relatively flat-hulled production boat to heave-to reliably. This seems to be a crap shoot: some will, and some won't, and experimenting in rough seas isn't on a lot of short lists. Not being able to stop, rest and regroup leads to bad, seamanship-eroding decisions, and that can contribute to fatiguing a boat further.

Lastly, some strongly built boats have a harsh motion in heavy seas that can exhaust a crew. The Pacific "weather bomb" storm between Fiji and NZ in '94 showed this: some of the boats had to be abandoned (but kept afloat) because the crews couldn't take the endless pounding. Others battened down, hove to and were ultimately fine, even in 90 knot "survival storm" conditions.

Again, it's like a Venn diagram...every boat is a compromise, and while there are quite a few "coastal" boats that could survive a storm, they might come in a wide range of seakindliness or comfort factors, and how important that is to you (or whether or not you're willing to give up a knot of light air speed or 10 degrees of pointing ability for it) is going to be a big factor.

You can't discuss boat suitability without broaching (pun intended) the topic of crew suitability. Alex is very proud of his boat, and rightly so, but he would not likely cross the Atlantic with it...it's not the appropriate boat for that. I wouldn't enter my boat in the Newport-Bermuda race, either, by the same logic...who wants to arrive tanned, fit and rested 10 days after the awards dinner?


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Great post Val. Thanks. I do think this would be an interesting discussion - so unless SailingDog tells me there's already a thread on this - I may float a new one.


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## Sanduskysailor (Aug 1, 2008)

Having survived a 3 day storm in the Atlantic 5 years ago this week, I have some definite ideas regarding suitable blue water offshore boats. Granted, the sustained winds never exceeded 58 knots, the seas were the big problem. Fortunately the 55' aluminum purpose built boat I was on had a pilot house. Standing watches every 8 hours for 3 days in that sea state would have been physically impossible. Sitting in a gimballed chair for 4 hours and 4 hours in a pilot house sea berth was taxing enough. It is hard to accurately describe the violent motion that 25 foot breaking and confused seas make. You are constantly bracing yourself which inevitably becomes very tiring. Common tasks like making a sandwich take about 10 times as long and are tiring. The sheer power of waves, crashing over the pilothouse on occasion, was unbelievable. I never once thought the boat wasn't going to make it although we were occasionally were concerned about the hull tripping as we slid down a wave on our side.

In comparison, a friends Ericson 46 left St. Thomas a couple of days behind us, hit the storm for 1/2 a day, veered off towards Bermuda and limped in to Hampton Roads a week later than us. Their boat was obviously sturdy and well built for a production boat. Unfortunately it really couldn't handle those conditions for long. The boat was a total writeoff at the dock. The crew injuries included a broken arm and fractured ribs. The cabin sole had broken loose, the nav station had broken from its tabs and every bulkhead was broken. Yikes! 

The main problem is that people on this board have varying opinions of blue water capable. I'd venture to say that most haven't been out in a sustained storme in the Atlantic. Some think they will be ok with the right equipment, some think it is heavy displacement, and others foolishly think that if a sister production boat has made offshore passages then they are good to go. Heck I believed some of these things too until I was caught in it 350 miles offshore.

Bottom line is that it is a combination things. If your boat can't withstand drops off 25 foot waves then I wouldn't venture to far into the Atlantic in spring. The key is to have good planning, good communication and no timetable. Having to get somewhere is the major reason for a lot of mistakes.

Of course if all you are doing is going to the Bahamas and island hopping south then any decent production boat is ok so long as your plan your trip right.


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## MoonSailer (Jun 1, 2007)

I think that even with the right boat planning is critical. The solid boat is when reality does not match your plans. My last trip from Panama City to Pensacola was not a survival situation but it could have been very uncomfortable in a light boat.


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## mgiguere (May 22, 2004)

Go for the Commanche 42 which is ocean going, fast, $50k and available on the left coast (sausalito). Google will tell you where it is.

Moe


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Sanduskysailor said:


> Having survived a 3 day storm in the Atlantic 5 years ago this week, I have some definite ideas regarding suitable blue water offshore boats. Granted, the sustained winds never exceeded 58 knots, the seas were the big problem. Fortunately the 55' aluminum purpose built boat I was on had a pilot house. Standing watches every 8 hours for 3 days in that sea state would have been physically impossible. Sitting in a gimballed chair for 4 hours and 4 hours in a pilot house sea berth was taxing enough. It is hard to accurately describe the violent motion that 25 foot breaking and confused seas make. You are constantly bracing yourself which inevitably becomes very tiring. Common tasks like making a sandwich take about 10 times as long and are tiring. The sheer power of waves, crashing over the pilothouse on occasion, was unbelievable. I never once thought the boat wasn't going to make it although we were occasionally were concerned about the hull tripping as we slid down a wave on our side.
> 
> In comparison, a friends Ericson 46 left St. Thomas a couple of days behind us, hit the storm for 1/2 a day, veered off towards Bermuda and limped in to Hampton Roads a week later than us. Their boat was obviously sturdy and well built for a production boat. Unfortunately it really couldn't handle those conditions for long. The boat was a total writeoff at the dock. The crew injuries included a broken arm and fractured ribs. The cabin sole had broken loose, the nav station had broken from its tabs and every bulkhead was broken. Yikes!
> 
> ...


Sandusky, you totally summarize with personal experience exactly what I was trying to say. Your post should be framed.

The irony of the situation is that fewer and fewer oceanic sailors are likely to experience what you did specifically because we have more and more aids in the form of voyage-specific weather forecasting to help us avoid those situations. While this is undeniably a good thing (who wants to court death as a mouse inside a jar inside a washing machine?), it means that fewer crew and fewer boats have a tested appreciation of how rough things can get.

Every month in either Ocean Navigator or in some online forum, I read of circumnavigators who have experienced perhaps _one _50 knot episode in ten years or 50,000 NM of cruising. This is undoubtedly good and prudent seamanship, given that the evidence would suggest the oceans are getting stormier, but it also illustrates how few people really KNOW how these conditions affect boats and their crews. I've seen 40 knots sustained on a great lake for a couple of hours, and 35 knots on the English Channel...but that about it. And that was plenty.


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## Sanduskysailor (Aug 1, 2008)

Valiente, you and I are on the same page on this one. When planning our trip the weather forecast was pretty good for the 1200 miles. We were taking a route directly from St. Thomas to a point about 100 miles east of Cape Hatteras and then to the Chesapeake. We made several mistakes. One, we made the trip the first week of April which is about 3 weeks too early. 3 low pressure systems came off the east coast and unexpectedly formed into a monster storm which rotated the wind to the southeast while we were 350miles off St. Augustine. Next big mistake was to ignore weather advice of our weather router. He warned us to turn southwest and head for south Florida and not to sail north of the 29th parallel. Our skipper decided to go against the advice and trust a forecast we had for our Maxsea nav software provider. (daily gribs by modem that overlayed our electronic charts). Unbeknown to us, our skipper had a time constraint which influenced his decision. Next we were going with the storm which meant we experienced the storm for 3 days. Although heaving to or beating into 25ft waves really didn't look like a great option, we would have been in the storm for a shorter period of time. 25 ft waves are doable but not when they are confused, steep, and breaking. Unbelievable power in those waves.

The things we did right. We were 3 reasonably fit men with a fair amount of experience, mechanical expertise and sea miles. Not the place for the wife and kids. We had a proper boat, although designed by the owner (architect), it was professionally built by a quality boat manufacturer Hike Metal Products Ltd. and the design was reviewed by a naval architect and engineering firm. The boat was fast with a hull speed of over 10 knots and it was very stiff. We maintained a constant watch system and made every effort to conserve our energy. Sleeping was near impossible even with lee cloths, pillows, and numerous life jackets as we tried to wedge into our berths. We maintained communication with our SSB and Satphone which at times was reassuring. Because we had a proper pilothouse we were never cold or wet which would have contributed greatly to fatigue. We had 2 underdeck hydraulic autopilots. Both pilots had electronic rudder sensors and we could manually adjust the yaw rates. The engine and battery compartments were completely watertight and designed to survive a rollover. For the record, the boat was an aluminum 55 foot pilothouse (53' waterline) that weighed 32,000# all up, 10.5' lifting keel with a 12,500 bulb on the bottom of it. The engine was a 110hp turbo diesel laser aligned and bolted between the 2 longitudinal stringers that ran the length of the boat. The mast, hydraulic lifting keel and engine was secured to the stringers. The construction also included ring frames that provided transverse support.The boat was constructed with a forward watertight crash compartment, accessible only by deck hatch which is where stored spare sails, lines, etc. The were also 2 watertight bulkheads with gasketed doors. We carried 320 gallons a fuel in 4 tanks that were centrally controlled. The tanks could be pumped from one to another with either the electric or manual pumps. For electronics, we had full instrumentation, 36 mile Radar, SSB, SSB fax/modem, Satphone, 3 cell phones, DSC VHF radio, Electronic Navigation software on laptop in Nav Station, Epirb in main cabin, second Epirp with liferaft, Offshore liferaft with full provisions and crash bag.

Essentially we were prepared for just about anything and the preparedness saved our bacon. I would imagine if you bought a custom French alloy cruiser equipped the same as this boat you are looking at 750-900K to get an equivalent boat. The owner did a lot the interior work himself, supervised construction, and diligently sourced the components using a rig off a Frers 45 that had been destroyed in a fire (rig not on boat). He reinforced the rig, designed new spreaders that had a wider sheeting base and basically made the rig pretty stout. With all of that I would estimate that he had in excess of 275K in the boat when finished.

The point of all this is: This is the reality of what a true offshore boat costs. From my experience, production boats are not built that way nor should they be. Most boats are perfectly fine for taking to the Carribean or doing reasonable distance offshore in weather seasons and areas where severe storms are extremely rare. Yes, you can go around the world in a Catalina 27 but you have to be both lucky and skilled in your planning, boat preparation, and seamanship. People have done it and others have failed miserably. It is your risk albeit a big one. Through unpredicted or unforeseen circumstances if you are caught out in a big storm in an area where seas get rough you can have a very unfortunate outcome without the proper equipment.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Wow...you'd like my boat, I think. Yes, I agree, you and the owner improved your chances greatly with all that preparation and what some might term "design overkill". I would imagine after the first 24 hours it seemed "reasonable expense and attention to detail," and by the 48th hour maybe the phrase "light displacement" came to mind.

Hike is a great builder. Almost every cop boat in Toronto and some of the Canadian Coast Guard boats are made by them, and when you see them fearlessly blasting out of our Western Gap directly into 12 foot square waves and "grabbing air" before smacking into the next one, you think "man, that's a tough boat". These guys take their doughnut runs _seriously_.

I knew they did catamarans, but I didn't know they did sailboats. That boat sounds superb. I have a pilothouse cutter in steel with many of the same attributes (no lifting keel, however, just a full keel). When I finish, she will also have dual manual and electric water and fuel transfer. We have two pilot berths in the pilot house itself that a six-footer essentially must be jammed into, plus six-foot sea berths in the saloon that will be rigged with lee cloths or boards.

It's interesting that while you learned a lot about the fact that you had the right boat and the right crew for the situation, you also had full access to the means to avoid the extreme conditions in the first place. This illustrates quite well my point that if you find yourself in a maelstrom, it's just as often as not these days a bad judgement call rather than a lack of available facts. It reminds me of all those dead "back country skiers" this winter...they could read "avalanche conditions: extreme" and went anyway.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Hey Sandusky - you have a killer BFS here - with a valuable lessons-learned followup. Drop those into the BFS thread will ya? Otherwise I'll be forced to steal them.


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## Sanduskysailor (Aug 1, 2008)

Valiente, you might notice the decision to go into the storm was made for the wrong reasons. Even if we had turned around we still would have experienced some of the storm (probably a half a day). The owner has sworn never to do that again. I agree that most of the time you can avoid situations like this but there is always a chance that something happens that the forecast doesn't expect.

Some notes about the pilothouse. The starboard side has a pilot berth with lee cloth. Very comfy and just long enough to lay down in. The port side had a nav station with controls and electronics. It also had a gimballed leather seat out of a Porsche 911 that was sweet. You could lock the chair at an angle which really helped when the boat was bouncing around. The other thing of note were the pilothouse windows. The forward window had a hatch in it and was lexan. The side windows were 3/4" tempered glass. Plexiglass is too flexible and would have blown out with the first big wave. Lexan is tinted and is difficult to see out of on a dark night so not an option for all of the windows.

The 10-1/2 deep keel bulb was great for stability. The boat empty was about 28,000 with about 4,000# of fuel,water, stores, sails, rig etc. The hull shape was not flat but more a V shape A motor driven hydraulic pump lifted the keel to 6-1/2' when motoring into the dock. As far as I know, this might be the only sailboat ever built by Hike. The workmanship and quality were first rate. As I said in a previous post, I never doubted that the boat would be fine. Aluminum for a boat this size is a great choice.


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## Sanduskysailor (Aug 1, 2008)

Smack Daddy, I've got a better story from the same trip. After weathering the storm we had a brilliant day and a half sailing across a now tranquil Gulfstream and around a very quiet Cape Hatteras. We are making between 8 and 10 knots with our Asymmetrical spinnaker. The temperatures are moderate as I comfortably snooze in one of the mid berths. About 2:00 in the morning I am awakened by yelling from the 2 on watch in the pilothouse. As I scramble out of my cozy berth I slip on a thin patch of ice formed by spray around the mast as the temperature has dropped 25 degrees.

I can tell by the anxious and loud yelling that there must be something seriously wrong. I throw my vest on and head up to the pilothouse. We are now motoring into a headwind as the wind has shifted from the southeast to NNW. The 2 other crew excitedly point at the radar screen which shows an enormous blip 4 miles from us. It is obvious it is a very big ship, either an aircraft carrier(we are heading towards Norfolk) or a car carrier. The blip is circling our vessel every 45 seconds!! This is really freaking us out since what could be that big and that fast. We immediately rule out aircraft or helicopters. We have just sailed about 950 miles through the Devils Triangle. Nah, I don't believe in that stuff. The blip continues to make a constant circle around us on the screen. Could this be some secret government weapon? My half awake brain was really racing now. What the heck could be that big and circle in an 8 mile diameter every 45 seconds???

Eventually, one of the crew points to the not too trusty KVH sailcomp which has a very dim and flickering display. The heading display is rapidly moving from 0 to 355 and then starting again. The light bulb goes on, there is a big ship out there alright and it is our boat that is going in a fairly tight circle. The primary autopilot has broken and is steering very steadily in a circle. On a moonless, starless night, we really don't have a horizon to focus on so in our fatigued state we don't realize our situation. Immediately we disengage the primary autopilot and switch on the backup which works like a champ. We spend the next 2 watches laughing about how stupid we are.

In the morning the owner/designer climbs into the aft "garage" to survey the damage. The stainless screws in the autopilot bracket had stripped out from the loads during the storm causing the bracket to flop around and wedge in one position. A quick drill, tap and larger bolts and we are good to go with the primary autopilot again.

One of the few times when I have gone from adrenalin pumping terror to uncontrolled laughter on a boat.


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

I think the easiest way to put together a list of potential boats is to start with your intended purchase budget. Are you hoping to spend something equivalent to the price of an older C30 (~$15-25k)? Give us a price range and we can offer up some suggested boats.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

That's hilarious sandusky! What a trip. 

So are you going to take these to BFS - or are you going to make me do the heavy lifting?


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Sanduskysailor said:


> As far as I know, this might be the only sailboat ever built by Hike. The workmanship and quality were first rate. As I said in a previous post, I never doubted that the boat would be fine. Aluminum for a boat this size is a great choice.


It is...the only real worry is the scrupulousness with which you have to watch the galvanic issues, but there's a lot of beautiful and tough alu boats out there.

Thanks for the further information. Quite a bit of it will come in handy.


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## Valiente (Jun 16, 2006)

Sanduskysailor said:


> One of the few times when I have gone from adrenalin pumping terror to uncontrolled laughter on a boat.


That's a very funny story, Sandusky. I'll remember it should I ever be surrounded by a very large, fast blip. I have a KVH fluxgate compass, but I usually just stick with the Ritchie Globemaster and eyeball it.


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## davidstuart (Apr 15, 2009)

Then after that read Shrimpy Sails Again, both out of print, but can be found.
Shane sadly died of lung cancer a few years ago, I had the pleasure of meeting him many years ago in England before he began his adventures....a true character.



TQA said:


> Would I sail an 18 footer built of 1/4 inch plyaround the world - NO - but Shane Acton did. Get the book he wrote called "SHRIMPY".
> 
> It is a great read! and reassuring when you have worries about your boat size.


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## OldColumbia (Apr 21, 2009)

*Every Boat out 250NM is a bluewater boat*

These threads about " the Best", "the Most", " " What should I Buy?" are exercises in futility since, regardless of the vessel, the perception and comfort levels of each person and crew vary so widely.

My 1968 Columbia 36 has been to Cabo San Lucas, Hawaii, and is a " coastal Cruiser." There are others as far away as Thailand and in the Sea of Cortez.

The real question is what do you want and what can you afford? I favor the older "proven" designs that can sail well ( that eliminates Wet Snails) has a reasonable layout below ( since in most cruising locations, you won't want spend alot of time sweltering below) and you're going to spend much of your time working on it in exotic locations out of necessity or boredom.

Different Folks, Different strokes.


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