# Canadian Credit cards to travel with



## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

I'm researching which credit cards to leave Canada with. Am looking for low/no fee cards, and especially those offering zero foreign currency transaction fees. This is a common offering in the US, but seems to be rare for Canadian institutions.

The four I've found are:







Sears Financial MasterCard (two versions)
Marriott VISA
Are there other options I'm missing?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Don't be duped by the foreign transaction fee avoidance. I can't speak for Canadian banks, but this isn't as clear as it seems in the US. Often, those that claim to have no fee will simply adjust the exchange rate and make even more and its substantially harder to tell, unless you are seriously studied on daily exchange rates. The fee can be a better deal.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

cash is king!


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> Don't be duped by the foreign transaction fee avoidance. I can't speak for Canadian banks, but this isn't as clear as it seems in the US. Often, those that claim to have no fee will simply adjust the exchange rate and make even more and its substantially harder to tell, unless you are seriously studied on daily exchange rates. The fee can be a better deal.


I've seen this mentioned by others (well, one other responder), but wouldn't it be a case of outright fraud? Not saying you're wrong, b/c g-d knows I'm sure these banks will always do what they can to squeeze as much $$ out of us as possible. But I would think this would be a relatively easy thing to show, and would quickly result in law suits or even a class action.

Any class action lawyers reading this?


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

MikeOReilly said:


> I've seen this mentioned by others (well, one other responder), but wouldn't it be a case of outright fraud? Not saying you're wrong, b/c g-d knows I'm sure these banks will always do what they can to squeeze as much $$ out of us as possible. But I would think this would be a relatively easy thing to show, and would quickly result in law suits or even a class action.
> 
> Any class action lawyers reading this?


No, it's not. Just like trading stocks, any given price throughout the day will vary depending on how much you have to trade and the counterparty at the moment of the trade. Further, the traders themselves bid or ask to make a profit and must do so. Otherwise, there is no one out there to effect the exchange and take risk holding inventory.

Further, have you ever tried to exchange in the airport, at the hotel, in the restaurant. All widely different exchange rates.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Minnewaska said:


> No, it's not. Just like trading stocks, any given price throughout the day will vary depending on how much you have to trade and the counterparty at the moment of the trade. Further, the traders themselves bid or ask to make a profit and must do so. Otherwise, there is no one out there to effect the exchange and take risk holding inventory.
> 
> Further, have you ever tried to exchange in the airport, at the hotel, in the restaurant. All widely different exchange rates.


All the financial institutions' agreements I've examined claim the exchange rate that is applied is set by the credit card company, not them. Most also insert some fudgy language saying the exact exchange rate that is applied is the one in effect when the purchase is debited to the user's account. This could be hours or even days out of sync of the actual purchase. However, that would still be easy to analyse. I'm not one to support banks, but I'd like to see actual proof of this allegation Minn.

This 2.5% off foreign currency purchases likely amounts to very small potatoes for most financial institutions. Most of their clients don't do this very often. I interpret this as some companies using this option as a low-cost loss leader to get more business.


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## aeventyr60 (Jun 29, 2011)

I've found that the charge is about 3 %..my best bank forgoes the ATM charges, however seems the the spread on FOREX and other financial institutions exchange rates averages the 3%. When in country I get 10K or so in cash for the next crusing period, after that then I'm at the mercy of the banks. while 3% may seem like small beer, it still pisses me off.


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## jimgo (Sep 12, 2011)

Mike, stop with your research. Haven't you realized, there's a big scheme by the rest of the world to keep Canadians from leaving the country. If you persist, you'll upset the natural order of things. Just enjoy Thunder Bay.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

jimgo said:


> Mike, stop with your research. Haven't you realized, there's a big scheme by the rest of the world to keep Canadians from leaving the country. If you persist, you'll upset the natural order of things. Just enjoy Thunder Bay.


Now I understand why it's so hard 

Seriously though, if it weren't for the fact that our water turns rather hard for six months each year I may never leave. Lake Superior alone offers many life times worth of cruising opportunity. It will be hard to leave, but the cold, and the cost of living, is going to send us south for a while.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Mike, I'm actually relaying my own personal experience with this, when one of my cards terms was chnaged and I had to look into it. The only way to prove it is to do a foreign transaction on our card and then try to analyze as you say. The actual exchange rate used will never be the one you see published for that day. How different it is can be a matter of timing of the trade during the day or padding of the exchange rate to get their profit. 

I'm not going to make a mission out of convincing you, but I do know what I'm saying is true. All the best with finding what you're looking for.


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## Missingyou (Aug 16, 2013)

I am a Canuck now living in the States. I have a Capital One Venture Visa Card because it does not charge me International Transaction fees. I was using my AMEX out of country, but have stopped. The fees were a killer.


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## mitiempo (Sep 19, 2008)

I think your best bet is to join a Yahoo group like Southbound (west coasters heading south to Central America and beyond) and ask Canadians that are out there their experiences.
Yahoo! Groups


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Thanks for the tips Missingyou & mitiempo. I'll look into both.


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## rikhall (Feb 7, 2008)

In which countries will you be travelling.

For us, we use the *largest *and *strongest *bank in the USA - *TD* - which just happens to be a *Canadian Bank* - lol


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## boatpoker (Jul 21, 2008)

On our first trip south we stopped in Troy NY. opened an account with HSBC and applied for a credit card (Visa - no fee). When the card was ready they sent it to Utschs (?) marina in Cap May where we met up with it. We have maintained a US account ever since.


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## redline (Feb 15, 2010)

I've had USD credit cards from both BMO (Mastercard) and now RBC (Visa). The cards are issued by Canadian banks, but operate in US$, no conversion fee on purchases, just one if you pay from CAD and none if you pay in USD. Also useful for online purchases while north of the 49th.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Thanks guys. Our plans have us moving through the US first, then the Bahamas and the rest of the Carib. After that who knows... Either south into S. America, or west through the canal and beyond. 

A US-dollar account will do us well for the first little while. Might go that route, but I think just getting one of those zero annual fees/zero foreign exchange fee cards seems to be the easier solution. 

To be clear, I plan to operate large in local cash, using my debit card. I'm trying to find a reasonable balance between financial costs and simplicity.


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## pcmm (Jan 31, 2014)

mike,

i dont know about the currency exchange rates, but they are always above what you think they are. as to the fees. I dont think there are any canadian credit cards with annual fees any longer. I have MC, VISA and AMEx and none of them have any anuual fees attached to them and havent for over a decade. for US transactions you're probably better to have a US currency card, a USD bank account and take the currency hit when you transfer from CAD to USD at the bank account not the CC level


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

pcmm said:


> i dont know about the currency exchange rates, but they are always above what you think they are. as to the fees. I dont think there are any canadian credit cards with annual fees any longer. I have MC, VISA and AMEx and none of them have any anuual fees attached to them and havent for over a decade. for US transactions you're probably better to have a US currency card, a USD bank account and take the currency hit when you transfer from CAD to USD at the bank account not the CC level


Thanks pcmm. I did go with a Canadian Amazon VISA. The reason is that it is one of only three Canadian cards that offer zero Foreign Currency Conversion fees. Almost every CC charges 2% to 3% on all foreign currency purchases. This is on top of any skewed currency conversion rates they may use (although they claim to use standard bank rates).

It's easy to find a zero annual fee card, but I found very few (3) in Canada, and not that many US cards that don't charge this additional currency conversion fee.

I didn't go the US account route b/c I don't think we'll be spending much time in the US. I'd like to, but the healthcare situation, and the need for expensive insurance, has me thinking we'll likely bypass all together, or blow through as fast as possible. Sad ... I wish we could linger.


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Mike, I agree with you about the US. You would be nuts to be there without health insurance. We have an extended health care policy that includes foreign coverage for 92 days (why that number I have no idea). With the cost of out of Canada health insurance so high (because most Canadians are in the US), it would make sense to hop a flight back to Canada from the US for a few days every three months to reset the clock.

One thing with bank charges is that they will get you one way or another. A real annoyance is that in many countries the amount you can take out of ATM at any given time can be very limited so you need to make many withdrawals - often you can only do one withdrawal a day because there is only one ATM around. You have to plan ahead if you have a big ticket item that must be paid for in cash. In Bali we wanted to pay for the marina charge in cash because they added 5% for credit card payments. I think we had to go to the ATM 4 days in a row to get the money out, millions of rupiah. I think the bill was something like 2.7 million rupiah - you feel really rich when you have millions in your pocket.

Thoughts if you are taking cash. I assume you can figure out where to hide it on the boat, but we lost track of one of our stashes at one point for a week or so. We had it taped inside the face of a locker and the tape gave out so the envelope with a couple of thousand in it fell down into a nook and/or cranny. You only want US bills and in many places they will only take the most recent series of bills (harder to counterfeit?). In some places they will only take bills in very good to new condition. In some places you go to a bank to do exchanges, in other countries it will be a forex office. With the latter, rates can vary incredibly and generally have little to do with official rates except perhaps for US dollars. Most forex places will take Euros, Canadian dollars, Australian dollars, etc but the rates will suck compared to US bucks. Some merchants will take US dollars so check around. We bought a solar panel in Papeete and they quoted a price in local currency and US dollars. The latter was at a rate way better than anything we could have gotten in any other way.

It is also a good idea to have a couple of hundred dollars US in small bills ($1 to $10). Some countries use US currency (Panama and Ecuador come to mind) and $100 bills are useless unless you can find a bank. Ask us how we know.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Think about it. Why would a bank invest in all the staff and systems and take the risk to exchange foreign currency, not to mention complying with ever increasing regulation, and not charge you for it? It will be in there somewhere. One may charge more or less than another, but no one is doing it for free. Would you?


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

killarney_sailor said:


> One thing with bank charges is that they will get you one way or another. A real annoyance is that in many countries the amount you can take out of ATM at any given time can be very limited so you need to make many withdrawals - often you can only do one withdrawal a day because there is only one ATM around. ...


Thanks for all the _hard earned_  advice KS. We're moving into our new life slowly (the way we do everything) so hopefully we can learn the skills we need without feeding the financial industry too much.

Do I understand that you operate in US dollars in most places you travel? I've always thought it was better to operate in local currency ... that's what I've done in my land-based travels.

Funny story losing money on board ... I haven't had to hide things yet, but I can easily see me forgetting where I stash stuff. Good thing my wife has a much better memory than me .


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

bingo to what other guys have said...I had varyong levels of success and my atm trips where as infrequent as I could possibly make them

I would go to the same ATM if I was in a place for more than a month...cause I also had the mosfortune of getting the card canceled for security reasons once and had to call and wait for a new one...

that was bad

atms have all sorts of weird fees, max withdrawal amounts, curremcy exchange fees, withdraw after hours fees I mean around the world its endless

I became quote good at seeking out the better atms and better banks that were at the least consistent in their fees...but ever country has a different or slightly different rules with your bank back in canada

sometomes I would learn that I got charged $20 at my end at wells fargo in california for taing money out of a weird atm in yemen or something plus the fee at the atm, currecy exchange etc...at the atm side

so my advice is always to take out a max amount and use that cash till you run out...

low denominations, and spread around the boat in watertight bags so that if you ever do get a thief the stash they can take at one time will be less than if you have a big pot of gold waiting for them...

anywhoo

dont know about canada banks though...sorry

regarding us dolars yes...

low denominations, 1s and 5s will work ANYWHERE

euros too...but not as prolific

local currency is great for bus rides, entrances, buying stuff on the markets and streets but out there cruising a dolar can be used anywhere

a funny story regarding this...when I remet my friends in thailand to start the last leg of their circumnav they specifically asked me to go to my bank back in the US, and get $500 in dolar and 5 dolar bills...

and I forgot! they were so pissed, and so dissapointed in me that it really took a while for them to forgive me...

THE REASON was they wanted to avoid all the damn fees, and currency exhchange rates of and converting big bills into little ones, bank fees, etc...

a dolar is great, 5 dolars for bigger stuff etc...

it even happens down here fling a 20 to buy a dolars worth of veggies or whatever and youll get stared down or something like you have to wait till I make change, never mind a 50 dolar bil or 100

they are not even accepted in places like gas stations and such, but that has more to do with money laundering and fake bills so they avoid them like the plague

anywhoo


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

killarney_sailor said:


> It is also a good idea to have a couple of hundred dollars US in small bills ($1 to $10). Some countries use US currency (Panama and Ecuador come to mind) and $100 bills are useless unless you can find a bank. Ask us how we know.


add el salvador to the list

$100 bills are ok in some places(the new ones)

$50 FORGET ABOUT IT

20 and down is the standard...


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

We typically used local currencies, but in most places where travellers go you can use smaller US bills as well. There can be problem when you get to a new country and have not found the ATM (it may be a bus ride away) and need to pay for the entry or just want a beer. Small US bills will usually be accepted. If you try to use a $100 for a $37 entry, chances are not good that you will get any change. 

My wife's memory is better than mine but she could not remember where this stash was (I think we had about four of them in different locations, along with a wallet and some expired credit (and library cards) and about $100 in smallish bills and foreign currency (I always wondered what a thief in, say, Indonesia, would do with the equivalent of about $4 in Peruvian currency) in the chart table.


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## abarth (Apr 17, 2012)

Mike,
The Caribbean is littered with Canadian banks. Not sure if that helps on the exchange. We've always just used the credit card and the rate seemed competitive ( 3% ish )


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

Actually in the Caribbean it seems to be Scotiabank and RBC. TD seems to be focused on taking the US retail banking sector. I notice they leave out the Canada Trust part of the name in the US.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Thanks abarth, KS. I was planning to open either a Scotiabank or RBC account. I'm currently with our local credit union (being the good socialist that I am ), but will probably move over to one of those two before we head south.

Any preference? Anyone have experience with either? What about beyond the Caribbean?


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

scotia bank is big here...they are decent, we have a card with them

we also use citi

cheers


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## killarney_sailor (May 4, 2006)

I think Scotiabank is quite a bit bigger in the south. Once you are out of the Caribbean it does not matter. I find it mildly astonishing that I can go to an ATM in Vanuatu or Lesotho and it will give me money from my account half way around the world.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

killarney_sailor said:


> ....I find it mildly astonishing that I can go to an ATM in Vanuatu or Lesotho and it will give me money from my account half way around the world.


Yet, so many cry bloody murder that the bank that owns the ATM wants to charge you a fee. I find paying to take money from a bank that doesn't even have my account to be the fee that makes the most sense. How much would you charge a stranger to give them money out of your wallet and then go to their bank to get it back. It is amazing. It wasn't all that long ago that each bank issued their own currency. If you got too far from home, no one would accept it.


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## MikeOReilly (Apr 12, 2010)

Thanks guys. Looks like Scotiabank it shall be .


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## christian.hess (Sep 18, 2013)

Minnewaska said:


> Yet, so many cry bloody murder that the bank that owns the ATM wants to charge you a fee. I find paying to take money from a bank that doesn't even have my account to be the fee that makes the most sense. How much would you charge a stranger to give them money out of your wallet and then go to their bank to get it back. It is amazing. It wasn't all that long ago that each bank issued their own currency. If you got too far from home, no one would accept it.


I have NO issue at all with atm fees

what I do have issue with is the undislcosed stuff that you later learn about...

I got so good with my bank wells fargo that when I travelled they automatically checked up on me...asking if indeed I had been out of the country, withdrawing x amounts etc...

sometimes though I would get a really extreme charge on both ends of the withdrawal

I wish I remember what country and what atm it was...

my point was that I search those banks and atms that have a good partnership with whatever bank it is I have back "home"

for example here in el salvador the best bank for me to withdraw money from was CITI bank

I did not get a fee back home, and I only had a 2.50 fee on citis atm

now if I went to other banks I could get as high as $10 fee and a charge back home

the most I ever got charged back home was $15 plus an atm fee of around $10 PLUS the currency exchange rate

meaning for $500 withdrawal say in an unknown atm in yemen or wherever, I would lose $25 right off the bat, then lose around 5-8% for the excahnge rate that went to the atm of said bank

so thats another 25 bucks or so...so you lose a lot

thats why its important to check on what banks worldwide are partners with your bank back home

you can save a lot of money and hassle

btw

a lot of atms simply deny you a withdrawal for some reason, if that happens once dont try and do it again and again...use another brand of bank atm...


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