# Built in safe for cruising yacht



## Michael201 (Jul 30, 2006)

How do you all feel about a built in hidden safe? During the construction process of my yacht, I'll have the ability to place a hidden safe where I feel it would be well placed. Should I or would it better to just store cash and other paperwork in places like food boxes and other areas?


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## JT1019 (Aug 14, 2006)

*James Bond Style*

Just wondering, you going to have the kind with the remote door and all the fancy stuff like James Bond?

A hidden safe or strong box is always a good idea but it's important to remember that nothing within the safe is always safe. Only keep what you need and keep multiple copies. Carry mostly travelers' checks not cash to limit your liability. If something should happen they will replace them for free without too much trouble. Put a copy of everything (as well as some cash) in your ditch bag. If something happens you need to have a copy of everything as well as emergency cash.

A safe is always better then a Oreo box.


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## Michael201 (Jul 30, 2006)

JB Style? Why not. Because it's a new boat, I guess I could tell him to install a false panel with a connection to a button under or behind somewhere that would have to be pressed to release the door. Obviously I would need a manual way to open incase of power loss.

I've thought about a "ditch bag" that will be ready to go in necessary. Cash and copies of critical documents will be included.

Thanks.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Michael...we did it a lot more simply with just a hidden compartment. The teak over the compartment is simply velcroed down and looks like any other teak on the boat. A simple press at the corner lets us pull the board away from the velcro. 
If you go the "safe" route...be careful what you bolt it to as determined thieves might just put a hole in your boat!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

A safe is generally not such a good idea. Boats are generally less robust than the materials in the safe, and as such, can be damaged to remove said safe. Concealment is usually better than an obvious hiding place, such as a safe. Also, many safes are not very well thought out for a marine environment, where the salt-laden air and constant moisture will cause serious problems with the locking mechanism, if not the actual safe container itself. Safes are also relatively heavy, especially if you want a fire-resistant one.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Any time I travel I carry cash and lots of it, not even travelers checks. Think about it, they come aboard and find cash, not hidden, and you make them happy. The alternative is that you get real clever and make them mad, I want that law breaker to be happy, not mad at me or the boat. What is a few thousand dollars compared to boat damage or harm to you or loved ones. David


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## Canibul (Sep 1, 2006)

Get a cheapo WalMart safebox. put some copies of various papers in there an a few bucks. Leave it unlocked, but hidden in the first place they will look.

meanwhile, money rolls up well in a little PVC tube with end caps, can be stashed in a number of places, and will float if need be. Who would cut open a PVC pipe? Or how bout double ziplocked inside a specific life vest pocket? Hidden in plain sight is best. Everybody knows about the fake food cans.

slightly different subject, but I am curious as to whether anyone here has experience with the .38 caliber steel inserts for flare pistols?


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

I'd avoid firearms, and in many countries, having the ammunition and an insert can get you into hot legal water...


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## Canibul (Sep 1, 2006)

yes, I can imagine that ammo could be a problem. So, do you never consider the (admitedly unlikely) possibility that someone might try to board your vessel with a knife or machete with bad intentions? Do you let them take what they want? Fight them off with a boathook? Or does this never happen in reality?


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## Shack (Sep 5, 2006)

Some of you gents sound like you have sizable experience in international sailing. I have heard of Mexicalli Coast Guard boarding private vessels and throwing the occupants in to the legal system (cuz they had ammunition). I guess they didn't hide it very well. Do you care to share any sea stories??

My travel experience far exceeds my sailing experience, and from what I've seen the places that are most strict about firearms are often the place where you may need one the most.

However, proper trip planning, permits, and appropritate rolls of red tape can actually get you and your "heater" into other countries. This is not very free wheeling, but then again many laws are not inclined to your freedoms.

Countries allow for hunting will have laws that can be accessed in order to bring your shootin' iron to their shores. Appropriate customs paper work and the assoicated fees can sometimes be worked out. (Get it in writing - get a copy to a third person who has comm with your embassy ahead of time - oh, and get it in writing, did I say that?)

I don't know squat about the Caribbean, however!!!

_I think I shall research this topic _and see if the embassy dudes have any info.

. . . sea stories, anyone?

I got my Guinness open.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Generally, shotguns are the least regulated of the firearms, as they are difficult to conceal and have a relatively short range. Hand guns tend to have the most restrictions, being relatively easy to conceal. Hunting rifles are somewhere in-between, not being as concealable as handguns, but have far longer range than shotguns.


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## camaraderie (May 22, 2002)

Shack...try the SSCA.org bulletin board as there is an extensive firearms discussion running there now with a lot of experienced people chiming in. 
My own view for INTERNATIONAL sailing is don't bring 'em as it is a major hassle (no objection to shooting bad folks) and chances are you'll be out gunned anyway. Best advice is to pay attention to the safety & security net and stay out of the dangerous places!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Michael, I can't see any reason NOT to add one if you can do so in the design stage, a concealed and physically secure storage area might pay for itself at some point in the future.

But back in the "zero tolerance and we'll tear your boat apart to prive it" days around 1990, the USCG did make an official statement along the lines that any vessel having any "hidden places" or compartments on it would be considered to be a smuggler and treated as such...or words to that effect. At that time they said in no uncertain terms that if you added such a compartment, you had to notify the USCG formally of it. Sounds crazy, yes, but that's where they were at back then.

You might want to correspond with the Commandant's Office in writing to make sure that you can legally install the hidden compartment these days, unless you want to risk their wrath.


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## Michael201 (Jul 30, 2006)

Thanks. If it's legal, I think I'm going to do it.


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## capn_dave (Feb 17, 2000)

*Safe..... Are you Kidding?*

Hell you don't need to put a safe in your boat. I can lose stuff on a 20 footer and never find it. I never left left the saloon on the aformentioned 20 footer, set a blade for a fan down, took the old fan off the bulkhead, turned to get the new fan blade and it was gone. I tore the boat apart looking for it. This is not the first time I have lost stuff on boats. 
I owned a Morgan 41 for 3 years and found a dinghy, that I didn't know came with the boat. 
Thinking about it some more, a safe might be a good idea afterall. If you can remember where it is.
How one can lose something in such a small space is beyond me.

Fair Winds
Cap'n Dave


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## Shack (Sep 5, 2006)

*Capn Dave *. . . uh . . . you getting old?

*Comrad *- I couldn't agree more. I think I poked in to SSCA on this topic a while back as well. Think the recommendations I saw for safety were to avoid attracting attention of bad guys to begin with such as . . .

1) travel in packs around questionable areas as bad guys less willing to prey on groups.

2) Consider the need to have running lights on at night when in questionable areas (creates some obvious problems).

3) Set a watch rotation if able. Use cheap NVDs (available on open market) to avoid nav problems at night and observe _others _w/o lights on.

Addtionally, . . .
If boarded by such "_Non-Government Officials_" you're done, and you could only improve an inevitable outcome by playing to the pshycologies of least resistance. Chances are that if they get some loot with ease - they won't have to waste ammo or clean their weapons afterward. in any way its really out of your hands by that time. Once someone has the advantage - you're along for the ride. Regardless of whether you have a pee shooter or not.

Me personnally . . . I am of the mind that I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by six. I do subscribe to the "be a hard target" not easy prey philosophy of avoiding probelms. That would involve avoiding questionable waters anywhere, using some of the recommendations above, but I'd try to legally arm myself with _something _ respectable when able.

It all too bad that the USCG is admitedly not able to provide for one's security in this regard, and at the same time it has been legislated that we cannot either.

Such is socialism! 

I'll do some digging around on this one some more and see what I get.
Still looking for some good sea stories, though!!!!!!


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## Canibul (Sep 1, 2006)

So, what WOULD a 12 ga. flare fired from a pistol-style launcher do to a chest and face at 10 ft? Or fired down into an invading dinghy/inflatable/canoe etc.?

One of my relatives used to take a knife and cut or score a groove all the way around the plastic casing on a shotgun shell with bird shot in it, to the point where he claimed it all came out in a single mass instead of spreading. He said he had killed a deer at close range with it, but I wasnt there to witness that.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

One the good news front, the US Navy has decided that pirates are a menace and if they are around and hear an SOS-related to piracy, will now intervene, as they have been doing down in the Red Sea area. Nothing like a naval destroyer and a couple of F15 Tomcats to put the fear of God into pirates.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Shack-
"It all too bad that the USCG is admitedly not able to provide for one's security in this regard, and at the same time it has been legislated that we cannot either." The key words are COAST GUARD, their job is to guard our coast. And not the world. The rest of the world, is (as sailingdog points out) what the Navy gets paid for, and in fact the reason the USN was created--to stop the Barbary Pirates in the Trucial States.

Canibul, there's all sorts of ways to futz around with munitions, but if your uncle wanted a deer slug, he could have just bought one.<G> There's nothing like the sound of large caliber weapons to make a bad guy rethink whether he really has someplace else he needs to be.


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## Shack (Sep 5, 2006)

*US Navy*

Sail Dog -  
I doubt that you will find anything about protecting individuals from pirates in the Department of the Navy or the US Navy mission statements. However, I'll give you credit for "enforcing freedom of navigation".

Barabry pirates were screwing with $$$$$$ trade. So Jefferson built up a Navy because the years of tribute he was paying to Triploi got too expensive (politics). I find it hard to believe that he did it out of a sense of individual chivarly. But, If you want the Navy to help you - lets hope Admiral Brisbane isn't coming "to assist."

Anyway, you will NEVER see a "Navy F-15 Tomcat" (as you put it) coming to the aid of anyone because . . .

1) You'd have to be near an aircraft carrier (they're a little bit busy now launching sorties into the middle east. 
2) No pilot is gonna launch missile at any civilian boat unless intel confirms that Bin Ladden is aboard. 
3) F-15 Tomcats don't exist. You can choose from F-15 Eagles or F-14 Tomcats. 
4) If you pick Eagles - the pirates got you because those are USAF birds and they won't help anyone without eight months of paperwork . . . ahead of time. 
5) If you pick Tomcats - the pirates got you again because the Navy does not use them anymore.

You may be better off using those shotgun shells that Canibul was talking about.

No hard feelings . . . I just saw juicy chance for a friendly ribbing and I took it!! I owe you beer for having fun at your expense!!

Semper Fidelis!


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Canibul said:


> yes, I can imagine that ammo could be a problem. So, do you never consider the (admitedly unlikely) possibility that someone might try to board your vessel with a knife or machete with bad intentions? Do you let them take what they want? Fight them off with a boathook? Or does this never happen in reality?


Generally, this only happens if you go to areas where piracy is a problem. Also, if it does happen, you will generally be outnumbered, and often out armed, whether it be the machetes or guns... and resisting is a good way to get killed. If you are properly armed and skilled, resistance might make sense, but avoidance is generally a much better policy.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

Shack, who in their right mind would call an F14 or F15 in on a pirate? What you want is to call in an A-10 Warthog. "F" for Fighter, "A" for ATTACK. Horses for courses, and all that fine stuff.

So help me, I've seen CAMELS painted among the silhouettes on the nose of a Warthog, those guys enjoy getting close and personal before they punch big holes in things.<G>

Get some joint-operations chief liquored up and bet him no one can land a Warthog on an aircraft carrier, who knows, maybe he'll take the bet. I'll bet there's enough reverse thrust from the main gun that they can do it WITHOUT any arresting hook.<G>

Sometimes, when you are having a radio conversation with someone and you both know it is being recorded and they have certain protocols binding them, it is necessary to play a very delicate dance with your words. Say the magic word, and ooops, I thought you said a DUCK was going to come down.<G>

Didn't that nice man on the boat just ask me to come have tea with Osama? My mistake, I was sure that's what he said.<G>


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

Gawd, I love the internet! It only took three days to go from hidden safes to Warthog attacks on Osama sipping tea on a sailboat.


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## TSOJOURNER (Dec 16, 1999)

GoLikeaFish said:


> Gawd, I love the internet! It only took three days to go from hidden safes to Warthog attacks on Osama sipping tea on a sailboat.


Damn must have been a SLOW 3 days. LOL


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## Shack (Sep 5, 2006)

*Drifting with the current . . .*

 
So much for the title of the Thread!! Where's a moderator when you need one! 

*HELLOESAILOR* - "_Who in their right mind would call and F-15_?" Apparently Saildog might consider it - (I was resp to his post  )

As far as A-10 on boats go - NEAT! First I'd want to see a tailhook on the ass end. There is not THAT much revers thrust in the big gun  Then of course, those things are so slow you could land in them just about anywhere. The reality of is that after a few traps the A-10's landing gear would collapse.  They're tough airplanes but their landing gear is their achilles heel.

Radio games work great when the other guy is listening . . .
However, Taliban run away when an airplane is over head . . . once bitten?
Pirates ???? Hmmmmm Let's hope they monitor UHF instead of VHF.

*Bottom line* - calling for assistance from the US Navy?? or Hide a weapon aboard in your safe?? One's probably better off to arm thyself and prepare to repell boarders. The Navy ain't comin' - and the bad guys know it.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Shack-

Might want to read this, and this. The US Navy has stepped up its anti-piracy actions, and does respond in areas it has assets. The statement about the F15 was based on an article in one of the sailing magazines, which described the US Navy's response to reports of an American-flagged sailboat under attack. It wasn't that the sailors in question called in an F15, but what the navy sent as a primary fast response, followed by a ship.


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## Michael201 (Jul 30, 2006)

Ok. I know for a fact that I'm not going near Somalia. Never thought about it. Also, not going to go to any areas well known for piracy. Still, I'm trained and licensed with handguns and am leaning to keep one in the safe. 

If I can't put a safe in an area that someone can't find unless they TEAR the boat apart, then I won't at all. If they are there to tear the boat apart, then it won't matter. I will keep copies and cash (less then in the safe) in a poorly hidden area as deterrence.

My attitude towards handguns is that I won't pull or reach for it unless I am sure I'm going to have to use it to defend my family’s lives. Not property. Our lives. Of course that means shooting to kill. My friends who are law and govt. officers agree. 

Thanks for the advice.


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Michael-

There is nothing more dangerous than someone with a gun and not the training and knowledge to use it. I fully agree that you shouldn't pull a gun unless you are willing and able to pull the trigger if necessary. 

Still, given how draconian the gun laws are in most countries, I wouldn't risk carrying on when I am cruising. Also, in many situations, you will be both outnumbered and often out-gunned...pulling a gun in those situations just will get you and your family killed unless you're very lucky.


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## Shack (Sep 5, 2006)

*Saildog*
That's really cool!!  I hadn't heard of those incidents! - except for the cruise ship that was RPG'd as it pass through the area last year. I heard the pirate activity was moving further out to sea. But I'd say, "THAT'S HOW your spend tax money!" Ooorah!

I can't help but think that the Navy's response to this sort of thing is localized on that geographic area. I have participated in opertions in that area while we hunted for terrorists, albeit the land based variety. It looks related to the CJTF-HOA (Horn of Africa) operations that have been going on for sometime.

Don't know if you'd find similar responses around Indonesia or elsewhere, though. Really cool anyway! I'll shut my mouth about the HOA region, at least!  "Anchors Away "and all that . . .to the Cracker Jacks!!

If your sailing through that area, I suggest getting a radio checks a couple times a day so the warships know your out there and visa versa. Don't wait to introduce yourself until you need them. You might even talk to a kid from your home town!


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## Shack (Sep 5, 2006)

sailingdog said:


> There is nothing more dangerous than someone with a gun and not the training and knowledge to use it. .


Same with a boat . . .


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## sailingdog (Mar 19, 2006)

Shack said:


> Same with a boat . . .


True that.. and both are a danger to others as well as themselves.


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## Shack (Sep 5, 2006)

Kinda like having a survival knife in a rubber raft!!


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## Shack (Sep 5, 2006)

Contacted the Consulate in Hamilton re weapons. Waiting on response.


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

What about a dummy gun mounted on the cabin roof?









I would think that (at a distance) that would be enough of a deterrent to put off many pirates! Though it may cause more problems that it solved.

Back to the OP.
The way I would facilitate a hidden safe it as follows:
Have an upright fridge in the galley which appears to be mounted at floor level.
A cupboard above it with a false ceiling
then some kind of mechanism that lifted the top of the fridge into the cupboard space revealing the safe from beneath floor level
this could be kept power free with the clever use of gas struts meaning you could still access it even in the event of power failure and without having to physically lift a fridge.

A similar system could be employed by having a hidden cylindrical safe lift up from underneath the toilet! Who on earth would ever think that the toilet would lift up to reveal a safe.

Just a few thoughts, with some ingenuity you will find a way.

Watch some spy movies for inspiration!


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

I wonder if a flame thrower (for agricultural use officer) would be perceived as legitimate?


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

Here we go; there is a more appropriate picture!
That would soon see off the pirates I think!


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

If dummy guns worked, no one would have to waste money on warning shots. Ammunition is expensive.

Floor-mounted fridge...jeeze, a power boater. "Secret compartments" can be considered defacto evidence of smuggling activity, you'd better make it a real good secret.

But as to the toilet? No, ask any con. They tie a piece of dental floss to something valuable, flush it down the toilet, use the floss to retrieve it as needed.

Sorry, old chap. There's very little that's new under the sun.


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

hellosailor said:


> If dummy guns worked, no one would have to waste money on warning shots. Ammunition is expensive.
> 
> Floor-mounted fridge...jeeze, a power boater. "Secret compartments" can be considered defacto evidence of smuggling activity, you'd better make it a real good secret.
> 
> ...


I meant the whole toilet lift up, as if it were on top of a column.
rather than bolted down.

I think of the OP wants it bad enough, he'll find a way.
whether it's floorboards, or through a secret hatch at the back of the oven, or a wet entry hatch in the bottom of the hull...

If the OP has the funds to buy a brand new boat (and good for you!) and wants a hidden space then you will find a way.

As Hannibal said: _We will find a way or make one_

I guess it depends in the end on how much you are willing to spend both in terms of time and money on having a hidden safe and also how big that safe needs to be

And there will have to be a trade off compromise between how well hidden it is and how easily accessible it is.


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## DavidB.UK (Sep 11, 2011)

Here are some other ideas that might help spark inspiration...

















One thought that just popped into my head is Neodymium magnets, they are incredibly powerful and you could have a hinged wooden panel with a sliding lock mechanism which could only be operated with a powerful magnet.






My father had two of these magnets and was playing around with two that are the size of the end of your thumb and they had such power that they would stick together (& move each other) *THROUGH* 18mm ply!

so with a little ingenuity, you could rig up a door (covering the safe), and the wooden panel could be locked by the use of a sliding lock which could be operated by sliding a powerful magnet across the outside of the wooden door and unlocked in the same way.

If integrated into a new build this could be made to look like any other interior panel!


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## ccriders (Jul 8, 2006)

I would think the boat has been built, but who knows?


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## Brent Swain (Jan 16, 2012)

My brother, a retired fireman, always told people ." If you want a safe place to keep documents ,in case of a fire, put it in the deep freeze. The whole house will burn down without the deep freeze thawing completely. On a boat, that means against the hull, below the waterline, where things will stay cool in a fire, especially in a metal hull.

I'd never follow government orders to make things easy for a thief.


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