# Living on Island Time...



## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

For the first time in my life, I no longer have a tan line where my wrist watch usually resides. In fact, I haven't worn the watch for over three months, which is a neat thing down here in Paradise. Paradise being Marathon Key, Florida. Today, we had rain for the first time in more than three weeks, it lasted about 10 minutes, and everything was back to normal. Unfortunately, I'll have to depart this part of the world in about 7 weeks, and slowly make my way back to the frozen northernmost point of Chesapeake Bay. UGH!

Here's a few photos that depict the lifestyle in this part of the world.


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## rockDAWG (Sep 6, 2006)

Wait a minute....... If you don't wear a watch, how do you navigate with your sextant? We need to know .

EGG-cellent pictures.


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## bigdogandy (Jun 21, 2008)

Looks like a really sweet gig all the way aound, Gary. Congratulations on making it happen! It's great to see one of the good guys actually getting to live the dream.....


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## Lake Superior Sailor (Aug 23, 2011)

Thanks for the pictures, great break from what we got around here! The water is still hard up here so don't hurry, stay till the last minute! Live the dream...Dale


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## lapworth (Dec 19, 2008)

No watch, No Calendar, No way to know when to come back. I just came back from Belize its hard to get off Island time. Nice picks!


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

Nice going Gary! 

How's the food there?


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Most of the time I eat on the boat, but when I do manage to go to one of the many restaurants I've found the food is mediocre at best. There are lots of places that are right on the water, have a unique atmosphere, but they're greasy spoon restaurants in comparison with those in the Baltimore metropolitan area. Maybe I'm a bit spoiled because I've performed music in some of the best eateries in the mid-Atlantic region and most of them throw in a free meal as part of the pay. Therefore, when I performed in Baltimore's Little Italy, I was treated to the best of the best. You would be amazed at the number of waterfront restaurants that serve overpriced cheeseburgers, fries, etc... Of course, there are some exceptions, but by and large, if it were not for the location, palm trees, blue water, white sand, beautiful sunsets, etc..., no one in their right mind would eat at many of these places.

Cheers,

Gary


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

travlineasy said:


> Most of the time I eat on the boat, but when I do manage to go to one of the many restaurants I've found the food is mediocre at best. There are lots of places that are right on the water, have a unique atmosphere, but they're greasy spoon restaurants in comparison with those in the Baltimore metropolitan area. Maybe I'm a bit spoiled because I've performed music in some of the best eateries in the mid-Atlantic region and most of them throw in a free meal as part of the pay. Therefore, when I performed in Baltimore's Little Italy, I was treated to the best of the best. *You would be amazed at the number of waterfront restaurants that serve overpriced cheeseburgers, fries, etc*... Of course, there are some exceptions, but by and large, if it were not for the location, palm trees, blue water, white sand, beautiful sunsets, etc..., no one in their right mind would eat at many of these places.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Gary


Huh, thanks a _lot_ Jimmy Buffet.. 

Well, the food might not be on par with our area, but I bet the attractive ladies vastly outnumber the sleestacks typically found around here.. 

Keep up the good work Gary


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## capta (Jun 27, 2011)

I haven't managed to shed the watch yet, but when one doesn't even know what month it is, maybe one has fallen off the island.
Yesterday, clearing out of the SVG in Bequia, I put 02 for the month instead of 01, thinking it was February, as the outbound clearance date. OK, so I made a little mistake, anyone can do that, right?
But the customs officials and the immigration officials (4 different officials) in Bequia and here in Soufriere, St Lucia did not catch the error.
How's that for Island Time?
Gotta stumble next door to the bar......


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## jackdale (Dec 1, 2008)

Great shots

I still have to wear a watch while sailing. Our tide windows (slack current) require a certain accuracy. Plus I like the barometer.

Sailing in paradise must be different.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

travlineasy said:


> Most of the time I eat on the boat, but when I do manage to go to one of the many restaurants I've found the food is mediocre at best. There are lots of places that are right on the water, have a unique atmosphere, but they're greasy spoon restaurants in comparison with those in the Baltimore metropolitan area. Maybe I'm a bit spoiled because I've performed music in some of the best eateries in the mid-Atlantic region and most of them throw in a free meal as part of the pay. Therefore, when I performed in Baltimore's Little Italy, I was treated to the best of the best. You would be amazed at the number of waterfront restaurants that serve overpriced cheeseburgers, fries, etc... Of course, there are some exceptions, but by and large, if it were not for the location, palm trees, blue water, white sand, beautiful sunsets, etc..., no one in their right mind would eat at many of these places.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Gary


Thats so true Most of the restaurants there suck and are overpriced,
The is no LaScala or DellaNorte like in Little Italy

Thats why I like the BBQ Place Porkys...not pretentious and cheap

One thing they do have at the restaurants there they is good is the Key Lime Pie made with Meyers Limes


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I want to be Gary..........


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

travlineasy said:


>


I think that smile says it all. As they say a picture is worth a thousand words!


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## KIVALO (Nov 2, 2011)

Cool stuff. Enjoy!


Brad
s/v KIVALO


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## sailortjk1 (Dec 20, 2005)

Two words... You stink!! :laugher:laugher:laugher
Just kidding, I am sure you have showered while there.
You are definitely doing what many of us dream to do.
Congratulations to you for making it happen.


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## Tallswede (Jul 18, 2012)

I wanna be like Gary!

Kevin


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## rugosa (Aug 30, 2011)

E-N-V-I-O-U-S!

When in KW the banana flambe at 7 Fishes is a sweet treat.

Lots of people here in the frozen wasteland on island time, most serving at drive thrus, with that far away look in their eyes:laugher OOPS! - Feel at bit o that comin on now too


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Thanks for the comments and complements everyone. I'm going to hate to leave this part of the world on or about March 1st. It's a wonderful boating community down here, and currently there are more than 250 sailboats on mooring balls, on the hook and tied to the docks at City Marina. Today, for the first time in weeks, the rains have dampened the area, but not the spirit of the sailors here.

There's a small island at the mouth of Sister's Creek, which is now known as "Gilligan's Island." Every Saturday morning at 11 a.m. the island comes alive with sailors, all of which who dinghy to this tiny spot of land to party the day away. The sailing community completely cleaned up the island of debris, glass and trash, many have planted local shrubbery, and there's a lone palm tree on the island.

Every Saturday evening, I perform music at the marina Tiki Hut, and most of the time I'm joined by other musicians. There have been several nights where we have audiences of 100 or more, and when I performed New Year's Eve, there were many people that left he NYE party where they started out, came to the Tiki Hut and said it was the best NYE party they've been to in years. God I love my job.   

Cheers,

Gary


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

Glad to hear you are still having fun! Miss you!


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Gary, thanks for sharing. Right now in east Tennessee it has been raining for a week, we haven't seen the sun and the temp has been south of 40. I look at your pictures and project myself into that environment. Ahhh warmth, sunshine, warm summer breezes, waves gently crashing on the beach, tropical birds signing in the trees, sipping green margaritas.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Mel,

Looking forward to seeing you again on the trip home. I miss you very much and wish you were here again to enjoy the fun. On days when the weather cooperates, I've been sailing 25 to 35 miles a day, often just on the jib at 4 to 5 MPH. Yesterday, the dolphins stayed with the boat for hours, which is a wonderful sight to see.

Captainmeme, the Margarettas are always part of the equation down here, and the ladies love the Green Coconut Margaretta concoction I came up with. Gotta' keep the ladies happy - especially Captain Melissa. 

Gary


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## kwaltersmi (Aug 14, 2006)

Good stuff Gary, thanks for sharing. Now excuse me while I cue up "Laid back and Key wasted" on the iPod...


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## kellysails (Nov 1, 2008)

travlineasy said:


> For the first time in my life, I no longer have a tan line where my wrist watch usually resides. In fact, I haven't worn the watch for over three months, which is a neat thing down here in Paradise. Paradise being Marathon Key, Florida. Today, we had rain for the first time in more than three weeks, it lasted about 10 minutes, and everything was back to normal.


Don't leave, I wouldn't!

That is so great, good for you. Counting off the months until we ship our boat down towards your direction, whew. This weekend I'm going to freeze my n&ds off on a short jaunt up the Sound. Brrrrrrr, I think I'm looking forward to it.


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## JimMcGee (Jun 23, 2005)

Damn I want to follow your wake right about now...

Enjoy it man, I'm sure you've earned it.


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Dude - you are a rockstar. I sure do envy you.


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

Me too. You're my Hero!!!


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

The only problem with being here in Paradise is rapid weather changes, which just occurred. Winds went from 5 to 10 from the southeast, to 45 from the northwest in a matter of minutes. Gonna be a rough night for those hanging on mooring balls and anchored in Boot Key Harbor. I'm rocking around in the canal, which is totally protected, and just doubled up my mooring lines.

Cheers,

Gary


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## Serendipitous (Nov 19, 2010)

Very jealous of your ability to get a tan line.  We're on island time too, but in Florida's first coast, so not much laying out in the sun.

Maybe we'll see you heading north on our way south.


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## arf145 (Jul 25, 2007)

Nice pics, Gary!


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Thought I would add to the photos with a couple more that I really like. Seven Mile Bridge, which spans from Marathon south toward Big Pine Key, is always a great place to watch the sunsets. This was last night, just before the cold front blasted through.










Just to get an idea of how many boats are on mooring balls in Boot Key Harbor, look beyond me and my friend Peter, and that's just a small fraction of the boats moored here.


















More to come,

Gary


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## carl762 (Jan 11, 2010)

Awesome. Like somebody else said earlier, I want to be Gary. I am heading to my boat tonight to stay (my sanctuary). Will be about 28 deg when I get up.


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## RealityCheck (Jun 2, 2007)

MMMmm I thought a Watch was something you did when making a passage.... You mean to tell me it is also something you put on your wrist???? What does it do??? Does it not hinder getting your drink to the correct spot on your lips?????


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

RealityCheck said:


> MMMmm I thought a Watch was something you did when making a passage.... You mean to tell me it is also something you put on your wrist???? What does it do??? Does it not hinder getting your drink to the correct spot on your lips?????


You guys are freakin' CRUEL!


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

Gary, great pix! And glad to read how much fun you're having.

Matt & Jessica, actually you guys are in our favorite part of FL. We got stuck all winter in St Aug last winter; only difference was that for us it was on purpose. Been getting our nostalgia fixes following your blog.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

travlineasy said:


> Just to get an idea of how many boats are on mooring balls in Boot Key Harbor, look beyond me and my friend Peter, and* that's just a small fraction of the boats moored here.*


So is this... (grin)










You should check out the Bahamas next winter, Gary... Even in the most popular spots, you can usually find a bit more elbow room, and without having to pay to park there, or venture ashore...


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## Serendipitous (Nov 19, 2010)

> Matt & Jessica, actually you guys are in our favorite part of FL. We got stuck all winter in St Aug last winter; only difference was that for us it was on purpose. Been getting our nostalgia fixes following your blog.


We keep saying that if we had to get stuck somewhere, this is the best place to be!


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## lapworth (Dec 19, 2008)

Not sure why you would come back. When you do come back it would great if you had a welcome home gig. I bet there could be a big sailnet turn out. Way to go FloG.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

My loving spouse of more than a half-century, the person that is currently taking care of paying the bills, maintaining the home, etc.., is also my current booking agent for my music jobs. She filled the 2013 calendar/book with jobs beginning April 13th and continuing nearly every day of the week until January 2014. Therefore, when I get home in early April I have to go to work immediately. Fortunately, I'll be taking over the booking, which means I'll open a slot in 2014 beginning October 1st and once again head south for Marathon and other distant ports. The only thing I'll change is my departure time from here, which will be April 1st 2015. Of course, all of this depends upon my and my spouse's health. But, if I'm not dead, or nearly dead, I'll damned well be headed south in October 2014.

Cheers,

Gary


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

I hope to follow in your wake in a couple of years... the only problem with my departure time.. I have to wait till after new years.. so the first part of the trip is going to be COLD.

Until then, I have to live the island time through you. Thanks for the pics


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

If I had to wait till after NYEI would install a full cockpit enclosure and a propane heater. You'll be very, very cold until you reach south Florida, and maybe the Keys. January can be brutal, even in the southeast U.S..

Good Luck,

Gary


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

So far it's been pretty mild here, and no snow, but it won't be above freezing for a couple of days here next week. Gary's right - if you can't leave until Jan, you need an enclosure if you're ICW-ing. 

Glad we're heading south again in Sept/Oct 2013. Gary, for a while I thought you were headed down again next year and was ready to suggest you join us, boo.

Matt & Jessica, you *do* know about the VHF net in St Aug (I think its on 72 at 8 AM daily), and there's a meetup group (2nd Thursday of the month??) and a facebook group, to keep you company now that your buddy boat is moving on ... PM me or find me on FB or something if any of this is news to you. Ack! I miss St Aug. I miss traveling by boat! ...next year...


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

wingNwing said:


> Gary's right - if you can't leave until Jan, you need an enclosure if you're ICW-ing.


I realize I'm perhaps the only East Coast snowbird to feel this way, but I think the necessity for a full enclosure is greatly overstated... Admittedly, I detest full enclosures anyway, so I'm a bit prejudiced... (grin)

Get yourself suitable clothing and gear, maybe some weathercloths for an aft cockpit boat, and a forced air heater from HeaterCraft, and you're good to go...

Just my opinion, anyway...


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

I agree that it has to be pretty darn cold for the full enclosure. Even at 45-50 degs on a sunny day, it will get like a greenhouse and too hot. When cold, we prefer all the sides back to the helm, but the back open. Keeps the wind off you.

The full enclosure is nicer at night or at the dock with wind abeam or abaft.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

travlineasy said:


> My loving spouse of more than a half-century, the person that is currently taking care of paying the bills, maintaining the home, etc.., is also my current booking agent for my music jobs. She filled the 2013 calendar/book with jobs beginning April 13th and continuing nearly every day of the week until January 2014. Therefore, when I get home in early April I have to go to work immediately.


You need to direct her to book you where you currently are - simple. 

Cheers my man - you are living the dream.


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## SloopJonB (Jun 6, 2011)

JonEisberg said:


> I realize I'm perhaps the only East Coast snowbird to feel this way, but I think the necessity for a full enclosure is greatly overstated... Admittedly, I detest full enclosures anyway, so I'm a bit prejudiced... (grin)


Someone here recently labelled them "oxygen tents" . I had to agree.


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

SloopJonB said:


> Someone here recently labelled them "oxygen tents" . I had to agree.


Classic!


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

Gary,

Why doesn't your wife come down to the Keys?


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## Serendipitous (Nov 19, 2010)

> Matt & Jessica, you *do* know about the VHF net in St Aug (I think its on 72 at 8 AM daily), and there's a meetup group (2nd Thursday of the month??) and a facebook group


Yes, our friend from Fire & Rescue told us about it shortly after we arrived here. It's nice to be included in things like that.  If we have more questions about the area though, I'll definitely shoot you a message.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Unfortunately, my spouse has some health issues, which make boarding very difficult. Additionally, she equates living aboard with camping out, something she just doesn't enjoy. Despite the fact the boat has all the creature comforts of home, air conditioning, heat, TV, telephone, radio, comfortable vee berth, she feels the boat is better suited for day sails - not living aboard. 

Now, back to the enclosure. First and foremost, the enclosure should be segmented so sections of it can be left open if you wish to remain cooler. However, when you spend 10 to 12 hours a day in the cockpit, even wearing insulated coveralls intended for deer hunting, you can get darned-well cold. Keep in mind that you're just driving the boat. You're not moving about, tending sails, etc..., you're just sitting at the helm for hours on end, and that lack of activity will take its toll. You WILL get cold, even in 45 degree temperatures. This is especially true when the wind is howling at 35 to 40 across the tidal marsh and you haven't seen the sun for a week.

The full enclosure makes life a lot more bearable when under sail. Lets face it, if the wind was directly on your nose, then you could just drop the dodger and there wouldn't be a problem. Winds from abeam and aft are a different story. Then add a bit of bone chilling rain and this combination can quickly translate to hypothermia after 10 to 12 hours of exposure. Sure, you can add foulies to your coveralls and they can help, but then you're beginning to look like the little kid in the snow-suit that can't move. 

Maybe it's just me, but I like being warm and comfortable wearing less clothing. That's why I came down here in the first place. I'm not alone in my thinking. There's more than 260 boats on mooring buoys in Boot Key Harbor right now, another group anchored just west of the mooring field, a dozen boats, including me, in the Canal, and it's the same way at every similar location throughout south Florida. There are boats here from all over the nation and world. Lots of Brits in the harbor, and the way it looks, no one likes to be in Michigan during the dead of winter. There are loads of Michigan boats here.

I just talked with someone that recently returned from the Bahamas. They said it's darned well crowded there, most of the boats coming from New England and the Great Lakes areas. They don't like the cold either.

If your boat already has a bimini and dodger, the addition of some clear plastic for a full enclosure would not be expensive. You then have the option of keeping it rolled up with the weather is comfortable, but when the weather is nasty, it's very easy to just release a couple snaps and snap it in place around the gunwale. Yep, it's a greenhouse - a very nice, comfortable, warm greenhouse.

Cheers,

Gary


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

You mean like this?


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Yep - that's the look and attire I DO NOT wish to achieve on the trip home.

I think this would be a much more comfortable approach - living in the Greenhouse. 










Cheers,

Gary


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

travlineasy said:


> The full enclosure makes life a lot more bearable when under sail. Lets face it, if the wind was directly on your nose, then you could just drop the dodger and there wouldn't be a problem. Winds from abeam and aft are a different story. Then add a bit of bone chilling rain and this combination can quickly translate to hypothermia after 10 to 12 hours of exposure. Sure, you can add foulies to your coveralls and they can help, but then you're beginning to look like the little kid in the snow-suit that can't move.


I would amend that comment to _"The full enclosure makes life a lot more bearable when *under power... During daylight..."*_ (grin)

In my experience and observation, full enclosures ultimately result in sailing less, and/or sailing less effectively, and safely...

I should distinguish between enclosures on center cockpit, and aft cockpit boats. The former lend themselves far better to enclosures, it's the aft cockpit enclosures that I have a bigger problem with... But everyone knows that any aft cockpit boat meant to be really sailed should have the mainsheet and traveler in the cockpit anyway, so that renders moot slapping an enclosure on an aft-cockpit _SAILING_ yacht, anyway... (grin)

The extent to which sailing at night can be inhibited by a full enclosure has to be experienced, to be appreciated... The inability to gain a clear view over the top of a dodger can be incredibly dangerous, if one is limited to peering through eisenglass coated with salt spray, or in fog, or at night with even the most modest amount of glow from instrumentation lighting up the inside of the enclosure... Wanna try to use a handheld searchlight from inside one of these freakin' things? Fuggedaboudit...

Attempting to sail every boat with an enclosure that I've run has been an incredible PITA... There's rarely any real provision designed in for running sheets properly, you can never swing a winch handle through a full rotation, and the inability to see the rig, or the main, or telltales, or the windex, drives me nuts... Forget about ever trying to fly a spinnaker or Code 0, never gonna happen on a boat with an enclosure... And, on a boat equipped with a windvane, an enclosure will pretty much render it useless in any AWA forward of the beam...

When docking, simple line handling at the stern quarters from inside an enclosure can be a real challenge... Whenever you see someone trying to get into a slip that requires the stern to be tied off to outboard pilings, time to get out the popcorn, you're virtually guaranteed some amusement...

The extent to which safety gear such as Lifeslings, MOB poles, etc are usually isolated by cockpit enclosures is a very dangerous trend, IMHO...

Obviously, many out there are very happy with their arrangements that appear to work well for them... My main point is that the increasingly common perception that such enclosures are practically a requirement for heading south in October/November might be a bit overblown, and often affect the way in which some cruisers make the trip in ways they might not have foreseen...

In my observation, they appear to diminish the inclination to sail, and tend to foster a sort of "tunnel vision" in the cockpit, reducing the sort of 360-degree awareness every skipper underway should demonstrate... It's not the end of the world, of course, but as you know the best way to avoid straying from the channel and going aground on the ICW, is to keep looking behind you almost as often as you're looking ahead... Again, in my observation, these enclosures seem to inhibit that sort of piloting, it's not just my imagination how routinely I'm able to sneak up on such boats when running a fast boat down the Ditch...

Sailing is largely about subtlety, IMHO, and your awareness to the slightest changes in the conditions you're dealing with... Isolating oneself too much from what's going on "outside" can not only result in getting the best from your sailing, but can easily result in the sort of delayed reaction to changing conditions that can wind up becoming dangerous...

Some may recall the loss of the s/v ALMESIAN during a storm on an early spring passage to Bermuda about 5-6 years ago, and the resultant death of her skipper... She was a Hardin 45 whose large deckhouse windows were broken by boarding seas, and a host of other failures... One of the surviving crewmembers specifically cited the full cockpit enclosure as a contributing factor, preventing the crew from appreciating how rapidly conditions were deteriorating that night, not until a couple of the panels were blown out did the skipper appear to fully comprehend how bad things were getting "outside", etc...

Sailing in squally weather is when an enclosure can often rob one of that sensitivity to the elements that you only gain by being on an open deck or cockpit... That slightest hint of a change in temperature or humidity you might first feel on the back of your neck, I want to be able to feel that, I still trust my senses to alert me that something might be happening "out there", more than any instruments...

Hopelessly Old School, I realize... (grin)

And last, but not least... The look of my boat is important to me, I would never. EVER want to uglify it to the extent that erecting one of those contraptions will accomplish...

Trust me, this is just the _beginning_ of the litany of reasons I hate the damn things... On any boat that I'm gonna be sailing, that is... (grin, bigtime)


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

John,

First and foremost, the way it sounds you are definitely an "old school sailor." And that just fine. But there are a couple things that I might point out:

In my case, I'm sailing single-handed. Whether I'm in the ocean or the ICW makes little or no difference at all, with, of course, the exception of setting sail in the ICW, which most of the time isn't practical. Sure, there are some locations where you can actually sail, but not many until you reach the mouth of Chesapeake Bay. 

There's not even a remote possibility of me flying a spinnaker, I'm single handed and behind the wheel 10 to 12 hours a day. My only relief is when I'm in a remote area and can use the hospital urinal that I keep in the cockpit. I lock the steering and hope for the best while I take care of that particular bodily function.

As for controlling the boat, I don't believe it would be any more difficult whether the enclosure is snapped in place or not. When I use the jib-sheet winches I rarely go for full turns - that's what they made ratchets. Keep in mind that I'm old and not in any kind of hurry. Doing things faster is relegated to the younger generation.

When the enclosure is complete, it will be segmented. Two side panels, and two aft panels. All segments can be rolled up and fastened to the bimni top with attached ties. This can be done in a matter of seconds.

Now, I back into the slips - for me it's just more convenient. Under those circumstances I would roll up the segments, so there's not a problem there. 

My main-sheet and traveler are behind me, mounted on the inside of the stern. The center opening in the back of the enclosure allows me full access when needed.

Now, the way my boat is set up I can easily see the telltales that I have attached to my shrouds. If I tilt my head back I can easily see my windvane on top of the mast. I can see my main and jib, and the dodger does not block my view of anything.

I agree that saltwater spray can inhibit your vision, but in the ocean that's really not a problem, especially once you have the sails set and are on the course you wish to take. In the ICW, I usually have the center panel of my dodger open, which provides me with excellent vision of what is in front of the boat and for 20 degrees on either side. The side panels, which are isinglass, rarely get wet, therefore visibility is usually not restricted.

As for the esthetics, well beauty is skin deep, but cold, at my age, goes right down to the bone. I can live with some folk's perception of ugly, but cold can damned well kill you - even if you're young. When you're old, it can kill you a lot faster. There are a lot better ways to die than freezing to death, such as being shot in the back of the head by a jealous husband at age 108 while climbing out of a second story window with with your trousers down around your ankles and a 20-year-old blond screaming "Don't leave me - don't leave me."

Almost forgot. The enclosure is for heading north from Marathon, Florida on March 1, which means by mid march I'll probably be somewhere around the NC/SC border. The last time I was in Oriental, NC in mid March, the temperature was 21 degrees and the wind was blowing northwest about 20 MPH. It's real hard to stay for when you are exposed to those conditions 10 to 12 hours a day - even with the best foulies.

Just sayin' 

Gary


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## Minnewaska (Feb 21, 2010)

All of our lines come to the cockpit and there is plenty of room to turn a winch handle on all four winches (despite them being electric anyway) with the enclosure up. 

The enclosure actually gets too hot, but it definitely extends the sailing season, so I have to disagree in it reducing sailing time.

Downsides too. It is very hard to trim the mainsail, due to reduced viz. Docking is a nightmare, so we usually remove a panel or two for that. 

As temps rise, you must remove the panels or it will get hot, humid and moldy underneath.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

travlineasy said:


> John,
> 
> First and foremost, the way it sounds you are definitely an "old school sailor." And that just fine. But there are a couple things that I might point out:
> 
> ...


Sounds like your setup works fine for you... I'm simply saying I've yet to run a boat with a full enclosure that came remotely close to working for me, especially when running at night or in marginal visibility, or when taking much spray... The visibility issue is the real deal-breaker for me, the inability to have a clear, unobstructed view over the dodger, or to check the sails and rig at a glance, and the virtual blindness beyond the panels of the enclosure that occurs at night, well... that's not for me

Like you, I do most of my sailing singlehanded, at least when it's cold... Of the 8 times I've taken my own boat south, earliest I've ever departed NJ was December 16... Usually I wait until after the holidays, one year I didn't make it out until January 31... I'm also stoopid enough to have cruised to Maine in the winter, so I'm somewhat acquainted with cold-weather sailing... Methinks you might be underestimating somewhat the benefits of layering and Capilene, and the value of brands like Patagonia and Musto... (grin)


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

wingNwing said:


> So far it's been pretty mild here, and no snow, but it won't be above freezing for a couple of days here next week. Gary's right - if you can't leave until Jan, you need an enclosure if you're ICW-ing.
> 
> Glad we're heading south again in Sept/Oct 2013. Gary, for a while I thought you were headed down again next year and was ready to suggest you join us, boo.
> 
> Matt & Jessica, you *do* know about the VHF net in St Aug (I think its on 72 at 8 AM daily), and there's a meetup group (2nd Thursday of the month??) and a facebook group, to keep you company now that your buddy boat is moving on ... PM me or find me on FB or something if any of this is news to you. Ack! I miss St Aug. I miss traveling by boat! ...next year...


Shiver me timbers---literally

Hell thats Dan the modern day pirate under that modern gear


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

JonEisberg said:


> I would amend that comment to _"The full enclosure makes life a lot more bearable when *under power... During daylight..."*_ (grin)
> 
> In my experience and observation, full enclosures ultimately result in sailing less, and/or sailing less effectively, and safely...
> 
> ...


Wow after reading this I was headed for the door to take the front windshield off of my car and put the windows down. Its 20 here this AM with snow showers.e

Id get some quisical looks driving down I95 to DC this AM in my Gils

I agree with many of your observations. I dont think its as black and white as you present though

Our enlcosures can be added/ subtracted in pieces to preserve the openess and rarely have we ever been fully buttoined up except at anchor. We have full 360 degree range of acccess to all 4 of our cabin top winches. Major visability windows to the top of the mast, main sail, and jib. Our entire fron window zips out for night sailing as that is the most difficult.

I wonder how much to factor in the wear and tear, and dibilitation from sitting in 45 degrees for 8 hours with a 25 knott wind/ and rain and how that also factors into the safety curve. To think it doesnt have a major effect on safety and alertness as you wear down would be serious shortsightedness.

Many of the issues you addessed cam be compensated for such as windows in dodgers and biminis, and the awareness of knowing you are not feeling some of the true conditions is important I agree

So you can look like the old man ibn the sea with a weathered, leathered aged face with melonaoma induced spotted skin grafts or you can choose to cover up somewhat and save your skin, as well as add years on to your sailing experience...your choice. I choose comfort and safety


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

I have found that a good hat gives plenty of sun protection, am 100% with the notion of keeping the cockpit as clear of obstructions as possible. If I ever employ some sort of Bimini, it will be something completely removable which is where it will be most of the time. The issue of visibility is a HUGE one. Even the dodger presents an obstruction to good visibility and requires conscious attention so that if you are on the port side, you do not miss someone coming up starboard. Directly ahead, the dodger almost completely obscures vision except through vinyl windows which are often fogged/sunswept/unclear.


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

Visibility matters, and the design of the enclosure should be thought out to maximize visibility, and a good skipper will be aware of the "blind spots" the enclosure creates. But comfort matters too - as Chef points out, cold wet tired people make mistakes.

If you're going south because you like warmth, why not set up your boat so you can be warm along the way, as well? What's the downside of giving yourself as many options as possible? We roll up the dodger panels and take off the awning when it's balmy, and use just long-sleeve SPF shirts and hats for shade. When the weather is crappy, though, I have yet to be convinced that voluntarily getting cold and wet enhances my trip.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

JonEisberg said:


> Sounds like your setup works fine for you... I'm simply saying I've yet to run a boat with a full enclosure that came remotely close to working for me, especially when running at night or in marginal visibility, or when taking much spray... The visibility issue is the real deal-breaker for me, the inability to have a clear, unobstructed view over the dodger, or to check the sails and rig at a glance, and the virtual blindness beyond the panels of the enclosure that occurs at night, well... that's not for me
> 
> Like you, I do most of my sailing singlehanded, at least when it's cold... Of the 8 times I've taken my own boat south, earliest I've ever departed NJ was December 16... Usually I wait until after the holidays, one year I didn't make it out until January 31... I'm also stoopid enough to have cruised to Maine in the winter, so I'm somewhat acquainted with cold-weather sailing... Methinks you might be underestimating somewhat the benefits of layering and Capilene, and the value of brands like Patagonia and Musto... (grin)


Well, I disagree with you Jon! I think a good enclosure can be a Godsend!










When we crossed the gulf, we got caught up in that super cold snap that killed all the fish. Many will remember this was when all the Snook in SW Florida died and floated on the surface. Being out in the gulf in that crap for days was horribly uncomfortable (btw, as you can see, we are sailing). Just something to block the wind off made life in the cockpit at least partially bearable. We still had a sleeping bag and another blanket on top to try and keep warm.

I think that getting that cold really slows your mental process and might make you put off things that if you were warmer, you might attend to. I am not saying that a full enclosure is the absolute answer for everyone, but staying comfortable is. In some cases, I might even say that getting that cold is almost as bad as being sea sick. Many of the repercussions are the same.

I most hardily admit that my blood is much thinner than many of my Northern Bretheren. Many of you might not have had as much of an issue with our temps. But for us, it was miserable!!

On a side note, I do have a problem with aft cockpit enclosures if you are not careful. The enclosure can create a station wagon effect if you are running the generator or main engine. Basically, you suck the fumes into the enclosure. If you run with these and the engine or gen on, make sure you crack the dodger to break the vacuum. A CO detector probably is not a bad idea either.

Brian


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

Brian, 

Looking at your pic, I can see the distortiions everyone is worried about in your enclosure. I can also see where you would not want those at night (I only sail a GP14 at the moment.. so no enclosures for me), but having said that, I do not see any show stoppers as far as seeing what is out there. Keep the clear parts scratch and wrinkle free and you should be good.

And excellant advice on the fumes. I would have never thought of that


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## Melrna (Apr 6, 2004)

Jon has some good points but not sure what his big beef is other than being ugly. He even doesn't like dodgers for which I don't either (current boat doesn't have one). Having said that though, if one is cruising or liveaboard full time in cold weather or rough/bad seas where water is coming over the bow, I believe it is necessary. 
The key to any good Bimini, dodger and full enclosure is how/who made it. Wrinkles in any canvass/ensign glass is a big no no for any good canvass maker. A bad canvass company is the reason why most designs are unworkable and ugly. Like Jon, seeing forward through a dodger is a must. I cannot count how many boats I have sailed where the design and manufacture of these dodgers I want to scream "What are you thinking!" For me a dodger that I can collapse is a must. 
For a full enclosure, all have zipper panels for when you don't need them and/or roll up. Even in Brains panel, while wrinkled, you can still see through them. There have been many times I wish the boat I was sailing had them. At anchorage they are nice when it gets raining or cold. Bug screens work too during summer or hot days. Some even keep out most rains. 
I understand Jon's concern in isolating oneself from the elements during changing conditions. That accident in the Bermuda Race he cited, is a classic example of even the most experience crews bad things can happen. But most sailors don't go out in those conditions. Even when one finds themselves in those conditions, judgement plays a critical role. It is here that most mistakes are made. If you don't like any panel in any enclosure, you always have the option to take it down, to include a dodger. 
When sailing, bottom line is the cockpit is 50% of your living environment. Why take it out due to bad weather. Communing with nature is one reason we sail, good and bad weather.


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## chucklesR (Sep 17, 2007)

Personally I'd not go without a full enclosure on ANY boat.

It just makes it useable.

Gemini 105MC (previous boat):









Current boat - this one needs some work to get it right.


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## SeaStar7 (Nov 30, 2012)

Great photos! Brings back memories of my cruise in the Keys in 2010! Fair Winds!


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## miatapaul (Dec 15, 2006)

chef2sail said:


> Wow after reading this I was headed for the door to take the front windshield off of my car and put the windows down. Its 20 here this AM with snow showers.e
> 
> Id get some quisical looks driving down I95 to DC this AM in my Gils
> 
> ...


Well I have been know to drive in the snow with the top down, but that is with the heat blasting.


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## Cruisingdad (Jul 21, 2006)

mad_machine said:


> Brian,
> 
> Looking at your pic, I can see the distortiions everyone is worried about in your enclosure. I can also see where you would not want those at night (I only sail a GP14 at the moment.. so no enclosures for me), but having said that, I do not see any show stoppers as far as seeing what is out there. Keep the clear parts scratch and wrinkle free and you should be good.
> 
> And excellant advice on the fumes. I would have never thought of that


Yep, Jon's comments are right on about the issues, except I dissagree about the deterioating conditions. My experience is that you don't even need eyeballs to know when things are getting bad. It becomes pretty obvious with the boat motion! I sure wish my enclosure was good enough to shut out all the bad weather!

However, the glare issue is one to consider. I cannot even stand it through the dodger! I lean over through the enclosure, light shinning out, to see. Anything that lights hit (which includes stainless, mast, things on the deck, etc) shines back and screws up your night vision. Mine already sucks, so we often have the kids doing some lookout for us. Incredible how well their eyes see.

We have eisenglass panels on the top of our bimini to see the sails, but they still aren't great compared to not having a bimini. But not having a bimini in Florida is paramount to skin cancer and heat stroke. I'll just have to deal with the irritation of looking up through the eisenglass.

All things in boating are tradeoffs. I believe, on this issue, that keeping the crew relatively warm and comfortable supercededs the issues of the enclosure. However, each person has to figure out what works for them.

Brian


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

Cruisingdad said:


> All things in boating are tradeoffs. I believe, on this issue, that keeping the crew relatively warm and comfortable supercededs the issues of the enclosure.


+1. If you're _cruising_ - especially with family - comfort is extremely important, and is actually a safety factor in itself.

I'm certainly not convinced by the arguments against. I understand the strong preferences - but I don't think those rise to absolutes by any means.


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## chef2sail (Nov 27, 2007)

mad_machine said:


> Brian,
> 
> Looking at your pic, I can see the distortiions everyone is worried about in your enclosure. I can also see where you would not want those at night (I only sail a GP14 at the moment.. so no enclosures for me), but having said that, I do not see any show stoppers as far as seeing what is out there. Keep the clear parts scratch and wrinkle free and you should be good.
> 
> And excellant advice on the fumes. I would have never thought of that


My wife made our windows out of Strataglass. You cant roll our windows up, but they zip out, so you dont have any wrinlkling like cruisingdads. They are as clear 4 years later, as regular windows. The trick is ib their care and to use the space age portectant when polishing them which acts like rainex.
You also have to cover them when not at the boat. Theonly problem is refected light from the inside like Jon said. I highly recommend Strataglass over all the other dodger glasses.

A CO2 detector is important on board also as you can be downwind of a PB spewing [email protected] all night from their onboard generator you cant hear as well as the vacum effect CD talked about.

Dave


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

chef2sail said:


> A CO2 detector is important on board also as you can be downwind of a PB spewing [email protected] all night from their onboard generator you cant hear as well as the vacum effect CD talked about.
> 
> Dave


Another very good point I would not have thought of.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

mad_machine said:


> Brian,
> 
> Looking at your pic, I can see the distortiions everyone is worried about in your enclosure. I can also see where you would not want those at night (I only sail a GP14 at the moment.. so no enclosures for me), but having said that, I do not see any show stoppers as far as seeing what is out there. Keep the clear parts scratch and wrinkle free and you should be good.


I'm getting the impression that very few of the proponents of full enclosures do much, if any, sailing after dark&#8230; Like I said, it's one thing to motor down the ICW in daylight hours inside such greenhouses, but after dark, or in fog, it's a whole different ballgame&#8230; Entering a place like Charleston, for example, behind the passage of a cold front, sailing close hauled and taking continuous spray, it's truly frightening how blind you can be flying, forced to peer through a narrow funhouse-effect panel of vinyl 6 or 10 feet away&#8230; So, you brighten the chartplotter display in an effort to help ensure you're not straying towards the submerged jetties to either side, which only results in becoming even more blind to the world outside the enclosure...



smackdaddy said:


> +1. If you're _cruising_ - especially with family - comfort is extremely important, and is actually a safety factor in itself.


Probably just me, but I'd say the ability to be able to see where you're going should generally trump "comfort", and can actually be a safety factor in itself&#8230; (grin)



Melrna said:


> Jon has some good points but not sure what his big beef is other than being ugly. He even doesn't like dodgers for which I don't either (current boat doesn't have one). Having said that though, if one is cruising or liveaboard full time in cold weather or rough/bad seas where water is coming over the bow, I believe it is necessary.


"Ugly"? How can anyone think today's breed of ICW Conestoga Wagons are _ugly?_ (grin)










Nah, I don't mind most dodgers, though I still think a rigid windshield with a "convertible" dodger top and side panels is the overall best way to go&#8230; Scandanavian builders like Hallberg-Rassy and Malo are the ones who have really sorted that arrangement best, IMO... Unless you've cruised with such a setup for awhile, it might be difficult to appreciate its practicality, and I've always been surprised more production builders haven't followed suit. In periods of clement weather, it's surprising how little one might really "need" a dodger, and how much the absence of one opens up the boat, and can make sailing and moving about the boat much more effortless. Fold down the top when you don't need it, rather than be stuck with a dodger all the time&#8230; A windshield alone can still afford an impressive amount of shelter from the elements. This was one of the chillier days on my trip south last year, I'd come out of Hilton Head behind the passage of a very frigid front in mid-January, but as long as I was in a position where either the windshield or weather cloths was sheltering me from the wind, I was totally comfortable&#8230; I don't believe I ever put the dodger back up until a rain shower came thru one day in Miami Beach&#8230;










What I object to, is the inability to have a clear, unobstructed view over the top of the dodger from the helm, whenever necessary&#8230; I think anything less can be extremely dangerous&#8230; And, no - those tiny "slits" that can usually be opened with the removal of a panel between dodger and bimini don't count for nuthin'... (grin)

The utility of being able to stand up behind the dodger, on top of the cockpit seats, cannot possibly be underestimated&#8230; Just that little bit of elevation can so often be of great value, whether one is dodging lobster pots in Maine, or trying to read the water in the Bahamas&#8230; How often in an open cockpit boat, is one's first reaction to attempting to identify something in the distance, or floating on the surface, to stand up on the cockpit seats or deck level, in an effort to gain a better, clearer view?



chef2sail said:


> My wife made our windows out of Strataglass. You cant roll our windows up, but they zip out, so you dont have any wrinlkling like cruisingdads. They are as clear 4 years later, as regular windows. The trick is ib their care and to use the space age portectant when polishing them which acts like rainex.
> You also have to cover them when not at the boat. Theonly problem is refected light from the inside like Jon said. I highly recommend Strataglass over all the other dodger glasses.


That's definitely the way to go, I've used EZ2CY for my windshield, it's used on bridge enclosures on many of the powerboats I've run&#8230; Great stuff, closest there is to clear glass&#8230; However, I would guess stowing those panels for an enclosure could present a problem on many smaller boats&#8230;

One final point, a minor and all but forgotten one to many, no doubt&#8230; But IMHO, one of the greatest pleasures and more mystical experiences to be had on the water, is a night spent offshore under sail, beneath a brilliant canopy of stars, or a bright moon&#8230; To snuff that out from view, and isolate oneself from such majesty, well - just seems downright criminal, to me&#8230; That sort of communing with the world and universe outside of the boat is one of the primary reasons I'm out there to begin with, after all... And, not the least of reasons why, whenever I start a trip on a boat with such a cockpit canopy, one of the first orders of business is usually to dismantle the damn thing...

I'm certainly in the minority here, no doubt about it&#8230; Although, I would imagine Hamish and Kate Laird might get a chuckle hearing about the "necessity" of a full cockpit enclosure to motor down the Ditch late in the season&#8230; Shuttling their expedition charter vessel SEAL between Greenland and Antarctica, these folks know a thing or two about sailing in cold weather&#8230; (grin)



> We are surprised to find no internal steering station. "That is because only a hydraulic system would do the job," Kate replies, "&#8230; and we don't want leaking hydraulic oil inside the boat. But we can use the autopilot for internal steering when the on-watch person has to be monitoring the radar. *When the wind and seas are rough, however, we feel it is very important to be outside helming - with the wind on your face you can react much faster and more accurately. The other issue is that if you are already outside you are much more in tune with the weather and are more likely to reef early if conditions deteriorate."*
> 
> Seal: A Cape Horner for the 21st century - Ocean Navigator - January/February 2008


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

JonEisberg said:


> One final point, a minor and all but forgotten one to many, no doubt&#8230; But IMHO, one of the greatest pleasures and more mystical experiences to be had on the water, is a night spent offshore under sail, beneath a brilliant canopy of stars, or a bright moon&#8230; To snuff that out from view, and isolate oneself from such majesty, well - just seems downright criminal, to me&#8230; That sort of communing with the world and universe outside of the boat is one of the primary reasons I'm out there to begin with, after all...


When my parents got their grampian 23.. I remember sailing at night. It was an awesome moment in my little brain that has never ever left me. It is one of the reasons I came back to sailing after a 20 year stint of living at the shore, but being boatless


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## smackdaddy (Aug 13, 2008)

JonEisberg said:


> *...Probably just me, but I'd say the ability to be able to see where you're going should generally trump "comfort", and can actually be a safety factor in itself&#8230; (grin)*
> 
> This was one of the chillier days on my trip south last year, I'd come out of Hilton Head behind the passage of a very frigid front in mid-January, but as long as I was in a position where either the windshield or weather cloths was sheltering me from the wind, I was totally comfortable&#8230; I don't believe I ever put the dodger back up until a rain shower came thru one day in Miami Beach&#8230;
> 
> ...


Yeah, I see your point. That novel set-up gives you almost 160 degrees of "clear, unobstructed view" (half that if you count the headsail). Way better than an "enclosure".

Sorry dude, you're not doing your line of reasoning any favors here. If you're going to take the absolutist position - it needs to be all or nothing. Harden up and commune with the wind-chill. But be careful standing on those cockpit seats. Boom, you know. Heh-heh.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I frequently sail at night, and never have a problem with visibility with both the dodger and bimini in place. My dodger is mostly clear, very little canvas and attaches directly to the bimini with zippers. I don't have to look over the dodger and the bimini is 6 inches above my head while standing. The bottom of my boom is 4 inches above the bimini.

This is not a very good photo of the rig, mainly because I covered the bimini with a silver, plastic tarp when the temperatures rose into the mid 90s at anchor. This keeps the cockpit a lot cooler. However, as you can plainly see, the dodger does not inhibit the view from the cockpit.










I'm a view freak, particularly when sailing. For that reason I had my jib cut high, which makes it possible to see everything on both sides and in front of the boat. I couldn't tell you the number of sailboats I've personally seen where the jib sail is all the way down to the gunwale, thereby eliminating any possibility of seeing anything on one side of the boat. I've always considered this to be idiotic and borders on sheer stupidity--almost like driving a car with all the windows on one side, and half the windshield covered--not to smart.

Now, while sailing at night, I like to look at the stars as well. I enjoyed watching the moon rise over the distant horizon while bypassing the Georgia segment of the ICW - it was beautiful. The entire night was beautiful until a cold front ripped through, the wind switched around and drove us farther offshore than I wanted to go. The spray coming over the bow, fortunately, was taken care of with the dodger, but the bitter cold from the wind cut through my heavy clothing and foulies like a knife. After four hours I was shivering, but thankfully, the morning sun warmed the air a bit and conditions improved.

Shivering just ain't a lot of fun - even while sailing! 

Gary


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## downeast450 (Jan 16, 2008)

Gary,

Zero degrees! Burr! Stay down there as long as possible! It is too cold here to ski!

Thanks for sharing your trip. It has been fun and a pleasant distraction. A valuable source of information, too.

Down


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## misfits (Dec 9, 2011)

downeast450 said:


> Gary,
> 
> Zero degrees! Burr! Stay down there as long as possible! It is too cold here to ski!
> 
> ...


Yea, it's pretty brutal up here right now. I was thinking about asking Gary to adopt me until this passes :laugher


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## wingNwing (Apr 28, 2008)

Okay, I see the issue, Jon. Whether you would benefit from an enclosure vs windshield + weather cloths seems much more boat-specific than you realize. If we put your setup on our boat, the weather cloths would totally block vision from our deep cockpit. And the top of your windshield would be at just about Dan's eye level. 

I think we just have to accept that different people, different boats, different solutions.


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## hellosailor (Apr 11, 2006)

I've been cold and wet...no wait, that was my beer.

I've been cold and wet and soaked to the bone. My own fault, wrong clothes. With the right clothes and the sense to PUT THEM ON before they are needed, you know it is like reefing. If you have to think about it, you should have already done it. Been cold & wet that way too, the clothes don't help if they're still below.

I can appreciate enclosures, an enclosed cockpit is still lighter and more airy than being below to have a meal or enjoy a quiet anchorage. But once you're moving, if you've got all the STUFF around you, you might as well be in a trawler. Really, there's nothing to be ashamed of, if you like being enclosed, think "trawler" or "pilothouse", get a NautiCat and move over to the Dark Side.

Yes, sometimes it is damn hot or damned cold or damned wet in the cockpit. Those are the days when you are supposed to be bowling or at the movies, not out on the water.

Enclosure on a sailboat? Kinda like a Mastiff wearing a frilly pink sweater.


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

JonEisberg said:


>


I rather like that. I wonder if I could build something similar that would fit into the rails of the sliding hatch and give better visibility, be easier to stow, and still keep me semi out of the spray (even if I had to use flexible stuff to the sides)


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

smackdaddy said:


> > What I object to, is the inability to have a clear, unobstructed view over the top of the dodger from the helm, whenever necessary&#8230; I think anything less can be extremely dangerous&#8230;
> 
> 
> Yeah, I see your point. *That novel set-up gives you almost 160 degrees of "clear, unobstructed view". Way better than an "enclosure".*
> ...


Huh? What am I missing, there? Looks a lot more like 360 degrees, to me...


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

Exactly 20 below here in the Adirondacks this morning. Isn't getting above zero today. But it's nice and clear....brisk...


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

travlineasy said:


> I frequently sail at night, and never have a problem with visibility with both the dodger and bimini in place. My dodger is mostly clear, very little canvas and attaches directly to the bimini with zippers. I don't have to look over the dodger and the bimini is 6 inches above my head while standing. The bottom of my boom is 4 inches above the bimini.
> 
> This is not a very good photo of the rig, mainly because I covered the bimini with a silver, plastic tarp when the temperatures rose into the mid 90s at anchor. This keeps the cockpit a lot cooler. However, as you can plainly see, the dodger does not inhibit the view from the cockpit.
> 
> ...


That looks pretty good, Gary... We'll just have to agree to disagree on my preference for being able to see over the top of the dodger when standing at the helm... (grin)

You know, you might consider weathercloths for your cockpit, you might be amazed how effective they can be when the breeze comes further aft, and you begin to lose the protection of a dodger...

Hopelessly Old School, I know, and dead simple - but they work just as well today, as back when people like the Hiscocks and Smeetons were using them... (grin)


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

wingNwing said:


> Okay, I see the issue, Jon. Whether you would benefit from an enclosure vs windshield + weather cloths seems much more boat-specific than you realize. If we put your setup on our boat, the weather cloths would totally block vision from our deep cockpit. And the top of your windshield would be at just about Dan's eye level.
> 
> I think we just have to accept that different people, different boats, different solutions.


Well, that's always true to a certain extent, but there's rarely a reason a dodger can't be adjusted to suit, and configured to a height that still allows the helmsman to see over the top when standing at the helm, or in the cockpit...

This boat is considerably larger than mine, and yet anyone of average height would still be able to see over the dodger when standing at the wheel...










As to weathercloths, if the height of the lifelines relative to eye level when seated is an issue, they could always be fabricated, at least partially, out of a clear vinyl material, instead... Again, I'm guessing many people would be pleasantly surprised, at how effective they alone can be...

But, you're right, of course - there are probably many boats that would not lend themselves to an arrangement like mine, very well...

All I know is, I have yet to see an aft cockpit boat that lends itself particularly well to a full enclosure - at least one meant to be _SAILED_ safely and to its full potential, throughout a wide range of conditions and situations... (grin)

Just one gasbag's opinion, as always...


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

weather clothes are another good idea. Perfect I think for those cold brisk days when the wind is coming over the side or stern


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

In my case, my cockpit is so deep that weather cloths would preclude me from seeing anything at all while sitting at the helm seat. From the photos you posted, Jon, your cockpit is much shallower, and your dodger seems to be below eye level unless you are standing. Totally different layout that my Morgan. What may work well for one boat, may not be applicable to another, which I believe is the case here.

Cheers,

Gary


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Glenn from Bluewater Yacht Services and his friend just left here and will be headed to Boca Chica Key, which is close to Key West, tomorrow morning. The wind is still howling from the northwest, but is supposed to calm down to 15 to 20 and gusty tomorrow morning. They're sailing down Hawk Channel, which is the only way to go south from Marathon. They'll be back here Saturday night for the music jam session at Marathon City Marina at 6 p.m.. It's something we do every Saturday night and has really grown in popularity during the past few weeks, often with audiences to 150 or more people at the Tiki Hut. Damned, I'm really gonna' hate to leave this place March 1st.

Cheers,

Gary


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Gary, are you going to sail on down to Ft. Jefferson?


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I'm still waiting for a good weather window. That's a pretty long haul, just over 100 miles from here, and because the weather has been so nasty, as a single-hander I'm kinda' reluctant to hit the open stretch between the Marquesses and Dry Tortugas. This can be a nasty stretch of water, especially after you pass Rebecca Shoals. It's still not out of the question, though.

Cheers,

Gary


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

travlineasy said:


> They'll be back here Saturday night for the music jam session at Marathon City Marina at 6 p.m.. It's something we do every Saturday night and has really grown in popularity during the past few weeks, often with audiences to 150 or more people at the Tiki Hut. Damned, I'm really gonna' hate to leave this place March 1st.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Gary


sounds like you can get gigs down there.. why leave?


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

The content of this thread is wandering on and off the topic so I might as well join in.

Firstly Gary, great pics and seems like a great time you're having there. But I don't know your areas or your conditions so not much more comment on that.

It was said by someone earlier in the thread that CC is more conducive to full enclosures that aft cockpits. So I confess to a centre cockpit.

We sailed from San Diego to New Zealand in 2007. We had a full enclosure when we left and all the way to Raratonga we lived in the lap of luxury, removing panels when hot, refitting them when things got cooler and because we were coming from the USA summer to the New Zealand winter things got continuously cooler.

400nm SW of Raratonga, we hit some serious weather and the full enclosure was torn from the boat and dumped into the sea.

Life from that point became hell and I would happily have made a deal with the devil to get our enclosure back. The 6 days from that spot to New Zealand felt like they would never end and in all that time, all I wanted to do was to go on deck in 40 knots and pouring rain to fine tune the mainsheet. YEAH RIGHT!!!

There is merit to some of the objections to a full enclosure but most can be dealt with one way or another. But for me to give up my full enclosure in cold and raining weather so that I can sit in the cockpit and fine tune the trim on my mainsail? That does not even begin to resemble a decent trade.

A person contemplating an ocean crossing that takes three weeks in mostly poor weather that doesn't want a full enclosure simply doesn't understand the situation. Better be sure you have really good weather gear and be prepared to be mostly alone in the cockpit.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Mad Machine,

Yep, there are lots of music jobs down here, but the pay is lousy throughout most of Florida. In fact, I believe it may be the lowest pay market in the nation when it comes to most things. Keep in mind that there are lots of retired folks down here with nothing to do. Some are retired musicians, who in some instances will play for free. Because of that, those of us that perform for a living have a difficult time competing - even if we are far more talented entertainers. Therefore, the amount you get paid down here for a three-hour performance is 30 percent less than we get for a one-hour job in the mid-Atlantic region.

And, because there are an enormous number of retirees here, the number of days you can pick up are sparse in comparison to back home. When I'm home I can work 7-days a week, every week, and I'm often booked more than a year in advance. New Year's Eve is usually booked three years in advance, and commands 4-times the regular rate of pay. Down here, the rate doesn't seem to change for NYE.

Omatako,

Currently, the upper reaches of Chesapeake Bay are frozen over. Temperatures have been in the single digits, winds are howling at 35 to 45 knots nearly every day, tonight's forecast is for light snow, and looking at the calendar, I only have about 5 weeks before I leave here to begin the trek north. The trip should take about 30 days if everything goes right, but I've given myself an additional 2-weeks of lead time just to be on the safe side. I know it's going to be very cold by the time I reach North Carolina, and I sure as Hell don't want to be any colder than I have to be.

Communing with nature is just fine for the warmer weather, but in the dead of winter it's damned well foolish. And, let's face it - March is still the dead of winter in this part of the world. Trim the mainsail - Hell with no enclosure - Hell NO! I'm a lot older and smarter than that. I couldn't imagine what you went through on that voyage without the benefit of a full enclosure. It had to be pure misery to say the least.

Cheers,

Gary


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Omatako said:


> 400nm SW of Raratonga, we hit some serious weather and the full enclosure was torn from the boat and dumped into the sea.
> 
> Life from that point became hell and I would happily have made a deal with the devil to get our enclosure back. The 6 days from that spot to New Zealand felt like they would never end and in all that time, all I wanted to do was to go on deck in 40 knots and pouring rain to fine tune the mainsheet. YEAH RIGHT!!!
> 
> ...


A couple of points...

Yes, I agree, in general CC boats lend themselves far better to enclosures than do aft cockpits, the bit of added elevation can have a lot to do with that...

Bear in mind, my original remarks were made in the context of talking about boats headed down the East coast of the US via the ICW, or possibly occasional legs outside... Such a trip is a far different exercise than an extended bluewater passage, and usually requires that the boat be a bit more "nimble" to a certain extent, and that the day to day demands of vigilant piloting, etc, can be considerably different, and more often than not, place a premium on excellent, unimpeded visibility from the helm...

The likelihood that days on the ICW in the late fall can so easily extend into darkness, and cruisers might find themselves trying to pick their way into a port like Norfolk after dark, is very real... Much of the ICW route does not allow one to stray in the slightest from the marked channel, and the difficulty of picking out the next distant marker visually is often exacerbated from inside such enclosures... virtually all inlets and ports, should one choose to venture outside for a daysail, will be approached at the end of the day into a setting sun, which again can be problematic from inside an enclosure, coated with salt spray... Attempting to pick up unlit markers with a searchlight after dark, again, can be very difficult from inside a greenhouse... And, many a snowbird's trip down the ditch will feature regular stops at marinas for the night, which can often be greatly complicated by having to deal with a fully enclosed cockpit... And, the only thing worse than sailing in thick fog, is doing so from inside a full enclosure... There's a pretty good reason why they're not as prevalent on boats in places like Maine, as one might expect... I could go on, but that's probably enough for now... (grin)

I certainly don't expect to "convert" anyone to my point of view, I simply think that many East coast snowbirds are slapping these things on their boats in prep for a 1,000 mile motor job down the ditch, without fully appreciating some of the downsides... In my observation, they do contribute to sailing less, and motoring more... Perhaps I'll run an aft cockpit boat with an enclosure some day that doesn't drive me nuts, but I wouldn't count on it... (grin)


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## Omatako (Sep 14, 2003)

JonEisberg said:


> Bear in mind, my original remarks were made in the context of talking about boats headed down the East coast of the US via the ICW, or possibly occasional legs outside... Such a trip is a far different exercise than an extended bluewater passage


Yes I get that - we sail all over the Hauraki Gulf which is quite a wide area and often has quite chilly sailing conditions (definitely not tropical) so I constantly thank my lucky stars for the enclosure. Ours looks like this:









and we can roll up a selection of three "doors" or we can and often do zip off all the clears and leave just the roof standing.

It is actually my intention to build the front (a little more stylishly than this) into a hard dodger with armourplate glass and then have the soft top continue to the back as it is now. Experience has shown that this structure simply hasn't got a prayer of surviving 85 knots. And while I will plan quite aggressively not to get into that again, there's no guarantee I won't.

Gary, sorry again for hijacking the thread.


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## chrisncate (Jan 29, 2010)

I think a proper full enclosure done right is an asset by leaps and bounds. Canvas is an art, and a good canvas man will design the enclosure to be logical for use. My dad was in that business for over 50 years, and he would dissect in great detail what the owners needs were when designing their canvas, and fabricate accordingly. 

Crappy canvas is another thing altogether.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Omatako and Chris glad you chimed in. Seems like the general consensus of opinion is the enclosure, with rollup panels, is the way to go, which is the way I intended to go back north. As for traveling any stretch of the ICW after dark - it's insane to do so. Traversing the ICW without visual aid is akin to playing Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun. There were two occasions where I mis-timed my arrival time at a marina and anchorage - it was damned well frightening, even with a highly accurate GPS plotter. The temperature was 42 degrees, wind was howling at 35 and the shoreline lights were blinding, thus destroying any form of night vision. This is not an unusual situation along the ICW. By the time I inched my way through the inky blackness to the creek entrance to the Titusville City Marina the tide was screaming as well, compounding the problem. Fortunately, I was able to make my way safely though the completely filled mooring field, through the narrow, rock jetties, and to the fuel dock, where I spent the night. Thankfully, they had 30 amp power there and I was able to fire up the heat-pump.

Cheers,

Gary


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## Skipper Jer (Aug 26, 2008)

Gary, you may know this but try using your binoculars at night. Not as good as night vision goggles but better than the naked eye.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

Yep, learned that as a kid in the U.S.Navy. Big problem is in the ICW oftentimes the channel is not much wider than the boat is long, rocks on both sides, and lots of very shallow locations to negotiate. There are times when I wish the boat had headlights like a car. I once had a center console fishing boat with headlights mounted just below the bow. They were great, particularly when winding your way through a minefield of crab pot markers and unlit day markers. Just like driving a car at night down an unlit highway filled with potholes. 

Cheers,

Gary


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## smurphny (Feb 20, 2009)

travlineasy said:


> Yep, learned that as a kid in the U.S.Navy. Big problem is in the ICW oftentimes the channel is not much wider than the boat is long, rocks on both sides, and lots of very shallow locations to negotiate. There are times when I wish the boat had headlights like a car. I once had a center console fishing boat with headlights mounted just below the bow. They were great, particularly when winding your way through a minefield of crab pot markers and unlit day markers. Just like driving a car at night down an unlit highway filled with potholes.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Gary


A friend of mine has an old Pacemaker that has recessed "headlights." They come in VERY handy. As you say, they are low and so do not create a lot of reflection like a handheld often does. For motoring in the ICW it might work well to rig up some sort of removable bracket to hang a good powerful spot down off the bow, below the gunwale.


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Omatako said:


> Yes I get that - we sail all over the Hauraki Gulf which is quite a wide area and often has quite chilly sailing conditions (definitely not tropical) so I constantly thank my lucky stars for the enclosure. Ours looks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn, that's a good-looking boat... I've always thought that Morgan 45 was one of the sharper center-cockpit production boats. She must be 15-20 years old, no? Nevertheless, she looks great, beautifully maintained...

I think your pic makes apparent the advantage of the sight lines through an enclosure on a CC, rather than if she were an aft cockpit...

A hard dodger, if done right, could look pretty slick on that boat... What I would consider, is doing one to a height just below your eye level when standing at the helm, keeping it that low would permit you to have a decent aft rake to the windshield, keep it looking sleek...

Then, go with a bimini like you have, which would extend over the top of the dodger, and a clear panel that could be inserted between the two when you want to go into full enclosure mode... I used to run a Bristol 55 that had such an combination using a traditional soft dodger, with a higher bimini extending over the entire cockpit, and about 2 feet forward of the aft edge of the dodger... The owner never went the full enclosure route, but it was an arrangement that worked extremely well, and afforded excellent visibility when you really needed it, and in appearance maintained a very sleek profile...


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## JonEisberg (Dec 3, 2010)

travlineasy said:


> As for traveling any stretch of the ICW after dark - it's insane to do so. Traversing the ICW without visual aid is akin to playing Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun.


Aw, c'mon Gary, it's not _THAT_ bad - idiots like me do it all the time... Hell, some delivery skippers moving fast boats have sometimes been known to sneak thru some of those No Wake Zones under cover of darkness, after all... Or, at least that's what I've heard... (grin, bigtime)

Helps to be familiar with the Ditch, of course, but there are really very few places that are really problematic to run at night... Given unimpeded visibility, and a 2 or 3 million candlepower handheld searchlight handy, of course...

I almost always run the initial stretch between Mile 0 and Great Bridge at night, for example, to run the gauntlet of restricted bridges after hours, when they open on demand... Running through such an industrialized area, with so much confusing backlighting on shore, can be a bit of a challenge, but with a clear view from the helm, certainly do-able... Having to sight though a dodger or enclosure, however, it's a whole different ballgame, and not worth the risk, IMHO... If I'm running a boat where I can't see over the dodger, then I'm probably compelled to wait until daylight, it makes that much of a difference, to me... And, if it's raining, and I have no option other than to be peering thru a dodger, fuggedaboudit...

The pic below was taken at the start of a run on the Ditch through most of the night last January... I'd left Coinjock well before sunrise, had a beautiful sail across the Sound, and down the Alligator River... There was a strong SW blow forecast for the following day, and I wanted to make it to Beaufort before that happened... It was getting dark as I reached the Fairfield Bridge in the Alligator Pungo canal, but I had a beautiful clear calm night to run...

That's a pretty easy stretch to run at night, a lot of open water... I spent most of it standing or sitting in my companionway, steering with the AP remote, staying nice and warm from the heat running below, perfect visibility over the top of my windshield... Piece of cake... (grin)

The hook went down in Adams Creek about 0400 for a few hours, I was in Beaufort for brunch, just as the wind began to blow...

Really, once you're familiar with the ICW, other than some sections through parts of SC and Georgia, there isn't too much of the route than can't be safely navigated at night...

As long as you can actually _SEE_, that is, and are not stuck inside of some freakin' oxygen tent... (grin)


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## Leocat66 (Dec 11, 2010)

Gary, sounds like you are really becoming attached to the Keys. That is what happens in a very short time. A local talent, Michael McCloud, who performs in Key West, at the Scooner Wharf, and is a favorite with the sailing community, has a song about the attachment to the Keys. "Just Came Down For The Weekend". Give it a spin if you can. 




We have been going down almost every year since 1966 and are still trying to find a way to stay forever. Simply love it, especially the weather, and we do not suffer from extreme winters here in New Orleans.

The restaurant issues are due to the extensive tourism and it is like most other places we have been in that respect, including New Orleans. Rest assured there is excellent dining throughout the chain of islands. After a few trips we learned to seek out the locals places, off the beaten path and have quite a few favorites. They are there. Being from New Orleans it may be that our taste is much different from yours. One place that stands out to us is JOSE'S, in Key West which is authentic Cuban, run by a family unit. The Hogfish on Stock Island is very good too. Both of these places must be searched for as you will not find them on Duval or on A1A. There is a place on IslaMorada that serves the finest crab cakes we have ever had. Can't think of the name of it but we know it when we see it. Wish we were there to help you out in that respect.

The Boot Key Webcam is back up and we have been viewing it hoping to spot you. No luck yet as your boat seems to be just forward of the Pump Out boats and is just out of view. It does show the TIKI HUT and the mooring field including the dingy dock.

We too are dodger and Bimini cruisers. We have saved some of your beautiful photos and have placed them on our screen saver.

Enjoy!!!!!!!


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## mad_machine (Dec 16, 2012)

Leocat66 said:


> Gary, sounds like you are really becoming attached to the Keys. That is what happens in a very short time. A local talent, Michael McCloud, who performs in Key West, at the Scooner Wharf, and is a favorite with the sailing community, has a song about the attachment to the Keys. "Just Came Down For The Weekend". Give it a spin if you can.


Very nice song..


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## Leocat66 (Dec 11, 2010)

Thanks Mad Machine, Another great example.


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

I'm working on learning the song, just downloaded the lyrics, and with any kind of luck I'll have it mastered sometime later this afternoon. I managed to find a few good restaurants here on Marathon Key, among the best was Key Colony Inn and Island Fish Company, both of which were excellent.

Cheers,

Gary


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## travlin-easy (Dec 24, 2010)

A cold front passed through the region early this morning, temperatures fell like a rock, and today's high was only 69-degrees f. Consequently, many of the fish that frequent the inshore waters of the nearby Atlantic migrated into Boot Key Harbor and the adjacent canals. When the sun went down this evening and the marina lights came on, the water next to my boat was teeming with various species of fish ranging from tiny baitfish to 5-pounders that would slam any lure or bait that hit the water. Unfortunately, other than jacks and mullet there were many species I could not identify, therefore they were all released immediately. Hope some larger mutton snapper show up in the next few days - they're real tasty on the grill.

Gary


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